#ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-15
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<Mithrandir> rob_: it's in and built now at least.  Packages are usually available a couple of hours after being uploaded, unless they fail to build.
<mjg59> agoliveira: Hi - around?
<agoliveira> mjg59: Hello.
<mjg59> agoliveira: Good time to chat?
<agoliveira> mjg59: As good as any :)
<mjg59> Cool. I've got time now :)
<mjg59> agoliveira: So, what's the situation?
<agoliveira> mjg59: I just called you in private.Can't you see it?
<mjg59> Hm. Nope. Are you identified?
<agoliveira> mjg59: I guess so.
<mjg59> With nickserv?
<agoliveira> mjg59: Ah... no :(
<mjg59> Heh
<mjg59> agoliveira: Try again?
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir:  Did you Menlow systems make it beyond Amsterdam yet ?
<Mithrandir> I haven't seen mine
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: Is both the Menlow and Samsung Q1 Daily image installs broken ??  
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir : I just tried today's on my menlow and it is still broken?
<CharliefJohnson> s/?/./
<Mithrandir> unsure; the samsung q1 should have worked, I believe, but I haven't tested today's.
<Mithrandir> what kind of breakage are you seeing?
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: I'll put it in an email.  It is kind of long for IRC.
<Mithrandir> sure.  I'm popping out in a short while, but I'll check it when I'm back
<CharliefJohnson> Mithrandir: An email is in your in-box
<bicchi> How do i type text on the samsung q1? Will there the an on screen keyboard?
<bicchi> agoliveira: Sorry to bother you again. If I install the regular ubuntu desktop on the samsung q1, how will i enter text? Would there be some kind of pop up keyboad?
<agoliveira> bicchi: No. Regular Ubuntu is just that so it sees the Q1 as a PC. You will have either to use the Q1 keyboard or use an external one.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<bspencer> Mithrandir, I had a question about keyboard when you get a sec.
<bspencer> I notice you are using stock matchbox keyboard.  I haven't looked into our keyboard code, but I know Jian's been working on improving the matchbox layout 
<Mithrandir> bspencer: sounds good; he should push them upstream, they're eager to get them
<bspencer> push them to matchbox?
<bspencer> I'll ask him about it.  I thought they were mainly just configuration settings, not code 
<bspencer> layout
<Mithrandir> sure, but they're happy to take patches for that too
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-16
<bicchi> question about installation. will ubuntu use the same i386 cd to install the mobile edition?
<wasabi> Last I checked super small devices didn't have CD drives
<bicchi> well not cd ofcourse since these machines do not come with a cd
<bicchi> yeah
<bicchi> usb installation
<wasabi> Probably not. See, the Ubuntu installer CD has a huge desktop GUI. :)
<bicchi> but the point is, is it going to be the i386 architecture 
<wasabi> THe packages will be available in i386. I think the focus is on lpia right now.
<wasabi> Low Power Intel Architecture
<bicchi> so i would burn the iso into my usb drive.
<bicchi> i just want to run the regular ubuntu desktop but have a small kernel.
<bicchi> can i do that
<bicchi> like use the kernel from UME but keep the software from the i386.
<wasabi> Um.
<wasabi> Doubt there will be a different kernel for i386 offered for awhile.
<wasabi> You realize "UME" is not much more than a bunch more packages? Hildon, etc... probably some packages containing various apps useful on a small device.
<wasabi> Probably a custom kernel for each target device.
<wasabi> (just guessing about that one)
<bicchi> we now have a kernel for amd64, i386, ppc, server, low latency. so i assume there will be one that has all the "fat" removed.
<wasabi> maybe.
<wasabi> but probably different fat added
<bicchi> well i just mean stuff that is irrelevant on a small device. like module for loading scsi devices, or parallel printer access. 
<bicchi> things that would make the kernel slower/bulkier
<wasabi> Sure. NOne of that stuff is loade into the kernel anyways unless you need it.
<wasabi> But yes, I suspect it won't be distributed for an install designed for a intel small device
<wasabi> The existance of scsi modules on your disk does not make the kernel slower or bulkier.
<bicchi> that is not what i meant. but yes i agree with you.
<wasabi> Not like that's hard to remove right now.
<bicchi> is there an installation guide already in place?
<bicchi> i am looking for the instructions to install from a usb disk.
<wasabi> There isn't anything to install yet as far as I know.
<bicchi> i guess it will be something like this: https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-usb-files.html
<wasabi> Sure, if your device even has USB
<bicchi> samsung q1
<wasabi> What's that?
<bicchi> for others will be a network install. if wifi or ether is available.
<wasabi> OH, hell, you can install Ubuntu on that now.
<bicchi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<bicchi> yeah but i need to know how to put the installer on a usb pen drive. that is where i am stock.
<bicchi> i do not have an external cd drive the samsung q1
<rustyl> bicchi, what are you stuck on?
<rustyl> how to write the image to the USB key?
<bicchi> yeah
<bicchi> i am following this:
<bicchi> https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/installation-guide/i386/boot-usb-files.html
<bicchi> am i on the right track?
<bicchi> or do i just copy the .iso to the pen drive ?
<rustyl> bicchi, sorry... got distracted
<rustyl> bicchi, we have this covered in the documentation, but i would need to track that down, but the answer is that you use dd to write the image to the device
<rustyl> bicchi, are you familiar with using dd to write data directly to a device node?
<bicchi> yeah but i would rather look at the docs to be safe
<rustyl> bicchi, the other option is to us the image-creator GUI... i.e. just run 'sudo image-creator', and you can select a project, then select the target, and then click on a button in the bottom right to write the data to the key.  Let me find the documentation
<bicchi> and that would burn and image to my pen drive for it to boot?
<bicchi> full image 650mb iso ?
<rustyl> http://moblin.org/howto_create-image.html describes using the GUI
<rustyl> the GUI will just do a 'dd if=/path/to/the/image of=/dev/YOURDEVICENODE'
<bicchi> i need no gui for that.
<rustyl> yea, the gui just makes it easier 
<rustyl> since selecting the wrong device can translate into disaster
<bicchi> yes i am aware of that one
<rustyl> if you use the command line, you also need to make sure the that device is not mounted
<rustyl> ubuntu will automount the pin drive, and then you will end up with a corrupt image on the key if the device is mounted at the same time you write directly to the device node
<rustyl> the gui just umounts the device for you
<rustyl> but that's all there is to it
<rustyl> bicchi, and another warning
<rustyl> you need to choose the actual device node, not one of the partitions
<rustyl> so if you already have a key that with a partition (which is normal), then it might show up as both /dev/sdb and /dev/sdb1
<rustyl> the dd need to be directed to /dev/sdb
<rustyl> otherwise you miss the boot sector
<bicchi> do i need to burn the alternative cd or can i use the regular desktop cd
<bicchi> in other words, text based installation
<bicchi> rustyl: so sdb is the boot partition not sdb1
<wasabi> sdb is the disk itself
<bicchi> yeah i ended up with: sudo dd if=ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso of=/dev/sdb
<bicchi> after running: df -h
<bicchi> the dd process seems to be going really slows on a usb 2.0 pen drive. i am not sure if i should have passed other parameters.
<patm> does anyone know  if the SDIO patch was integrated with the ume kernel
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi. I need to discuss with you a few things about how to have the applications on the image.
<mdz> my Q1 seems to throw away all of my changes to it when it is rebooted.  is this by design?
<agoliveira> mdz: Hmmm... I guess so. I just tested and mine does the same
<agoliveira> I mean, probably a bug not a feature :)
<Mithrandir> mdz: no, it's not by design, and mine doesn't.
<mdz> Mithrandir: did you install using a daily build, or one you built yourself?
<Mithrandir> mdz: daily build from quite a while ago.
<mdz> mine was most recently reinstalled from a daily build last week, but has always had this problem as I recall
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: sure, now?
<Mithrandir> I just want to de-root the image, then I can reflash my device.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yes please
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: What happens is that the application packages I created deppend on lpia and the images are being created from i386. Are you planning on switch to lpia?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: yes, once we have a useful hildon environment, I'll switch the dailies to lpia
<mdz> Mithrandir: is that soon, or not soon?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I need to decide what to do in that case because we need some aplications there ASAP.
<mdz> Mithrandir: agoliveira needs to package a number of things which are already in the archive for i386, but need to be built differently for UME (e.g. enabling hildon support)
<mdz> he plans to do this by building conditionally for lpia, but if they daily builds won't be using lpia for a while, he needs to do something else in order to make progress
<Mithrandir> next week or the week after is the current schedule.
<Mithrandir> if I drop everything else and just drive for getting lpia images working, next week is doable.
<mdz> Mithrandir: I need to catch up with you on your current task list and make sure it's aligned with what adilson needs to get done
<mdz> we can do that at the meeting I suppose
<Mithrandir> sounds good
<mdz> but meanwhile, adilson is blocked
<mdz> I didn't realize that lpia would block nearly all of the apps
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: why can't you pile up fixes in your end make them ready to upload once we have lpia dailies ready?
<mdz> Mithrandir: because then we don't find any of the problems until then
<mdz> and then = september, apparently
<mdz> which is too late to start testing applications
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I can do that also but I wanted to test the applications too.
<agoliveira> I can install them locally but it's not the same, of course.
<agoliveira> What about if I build the packages locally and place them somewhere so people could download and install as a short term solution?
<mdz> agoliveira: build them for i386, you mean?
<agoliveira> mdz: Yes but forcing the hildon interface
<agoliveira> That way we could test them. Not the best solution but a short term patch.
<mdz> agoliveira: you could put them in a PPA
<mdz> that would also give you some practice uploading
<agoliveira> PPA?
<mdz> never mind, if you haven't heard of it, then it would probably take too long for you to find out about it
<agoliveira> Ah.. Personal Package Archive?
<mdz> yes
<agoliveira> I heard about it but didn't sue it.
<agoliveira> use
<agoliveira> Well, I could give it a try. Should we go that way?
* agoliveira waits anxiously...
<agoliveira> mdz, Mithrandir, did you reach an agreement?
<mdz> agoliveira: I suspect that when your applications are finally uploaded, there will be problems which need to be fixed at that time.  they will not be perfect in the first iteration
<mdz> agoliveira: this is why I think it is important to get them in now, rather than waiting
<mdz> agoliveira: I doubt anyone is running Dates on their desktop, so presumably the i386 build could be changed to use Hildon?
<agoliveira> mdz: Ok but should I keep the way I was doing, with the lpia?
<agoliveira> mdz: Sure
<mdz> that approach might work for some of the applications
<agoliveira> mdz: Yes but it will be complicated with Claws, for instance.
<ntemis> hello
<agoliveira> mdz: You didn't like my idea of creating a temporary set of binaries while we figure out the lpia image?
<ntemis> i want to ask something
<ntemis> is 770 nokia internet tablet supported?
<ntemis> is yes
<mdz> agoliveira: how would you get them into the daily build?
<ntemis> if yes
<ntemis> will it be possible to run skype on it?
<mdz> ntemis: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-mobile:mdz] : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
<agoliveira> mdz: As I said, I woulnd'. It would be just a set of .deb that one could install manually.
<mdz> agoliveira: right, I don't think that solves the problem
<agoliveira> mdz: Solve, not but would be a short time solution while the images from lpia are not there.
<mdz> Mithrandir: what is blocking lpia daily builds?  can I help?
<ntemis> mdz: :(
<Mithrandir> mdz: glib emits a warning which causes hildon-desktop to build, at least.
<Mithrandir> mdz: I'm taking a look at that just now.
<mdz> Mithrandir: s/build/fail to &/ ?  argh
<Mithrandir> yes, fail to build.
<agoliveira> Ouch...
<mdz> Mithrandir: is there anything I can do to help?
<agoliveira> or me. I'm kinda stuck anyway.
<Mithrandir> if you could try to work out why the build failure in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8743442/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-lpia.hildon-thumbnail_0.11ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is happening, that'd be useful
<Mithrandir> more eyes always helps.
<Mithrandir> if you want to work on something else, we have plenty of MIRs that need to be written, and other tasks that need to be done.  Just tell me and I'll whip up some.
<mdz> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=416863
<mdz> looks like the issue
<mdz> I've no idea why it only showed up on lpia, though
<Mithrandir> but we're using 4.2, not 4.3
<mdz> Mithrandir: 4.2 gives the same warning
<Mithrandir> ok
<mdz> I'm pretty sure it will work fine if the warning is allowed to pass, and doesn't fail the build
<Mithrandir> I'd rather fix glib.
<mdz> agreed, but it already has that patch
<Mithrandir> it built, at least.
<mdz> hmm, same problems in a different place in the header
<mdz> or maybe not
<mdz> the fix is tied to gcc 4.3
<mdz> but the same problem exists in 4.2
<mdz> I'll fix
<mdz> actually, I'll talk to seb128 about it first
<mdz> seb128: our glib2.0 seems to suffer from http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=416863, which was fixed with a patch using #if __GNUC_PREREQ (4,3)
<Mithrandir> it goes away if I change the __GNUC_PREREQ (4,2)
<mdz> seb128: but the problem is in gcc 4.2 as well, at least ours, and the one used in Debian in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=424557
<mdz> so I think it should be changed to (4,2)
<Mithrandir> as in, I don't get warnings then.
<Mithrandir> seb's been idle for a while, almost an hour and a half
<mdz> I think that's the correct fix
<mdz> I tried to debootstrap an lpia chroot, and it fails miserably, very early, without even getting a Packages file
<Mithrandir> don't give it a URL, it'll DTRT then.
<Mithrandir> lpia lives on ports
<mdz> oh, how fun
<mdz> agoliveira: debootstrap --arch lpia gutsy gutsy-lpia
<mdz> agoliveira: if you want to help try to get hildon working there
<agoliveira> mdz: Ok. Will do now.
<Mithrandir> lool: given you were involved in the patch we talk above; any comments or thoughts?
<Mithrandir> lool: will it break anything if we accidentially turn on __attribute__ ((__gnu_inline__)) on for too old compilers?
<mdz> locales is a bit broken
<agoliveira> mdz: Did you start the build again?
<mdz> agoliveira: ??
<agoliveira> mdz: I mean the lpia build wasn't stuck?
<mdz> agoliveira: there is a problem with glib which causes the hildon-desktop build to fail
<mdz> agoliveira: Mithrandir is fixing it, as you can see above
<agoliveira> mdz: Oh ok. I was backloging.
<Mithrandir> heck, if it breaks something, it'll only break for lpia or for anything using gcc 4.2 explicitly.
<Mithrandir> I'll just upload
<mdz> thanks
<mdz> it will take hours to find out if it fixes things anyway
<Mithrandir> no, I'm blasting through the stack here locally
<mdz> unless of course the shiny new launchpad bits work
<mdz> Mithrandir: ubuntu-mobile seems to have far fewer dependencies than I would expect
<Mithrandir> on lpia, or in general?
<mdz> Mithrandir: only looked at lpia
<Mithrandir> they only get picked up when they're built
<mdz> ah, I see i386 has many more
<Mithrandir> glib uploaded, btw
<Mithrandir> hildon-desktop seems much happier now
<Mithrandir> mdz: I present to you -- UME lpia: http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia.png
<Mithrandir> not quite there yet, but getting there.
<mdz> Mithrandir: !
<mdz> nice
<Mithrandir> the theming is slightly funky too.
<mdz> Mithrandir: it's about as funky as it is in the daily builds
<seb128> Mithrandir, mdz: I'm here
<seb128> Mithrandir: and no, I was idle for like half an hour ;)
<Mithrandir> 15:47 [OPN]  -!-  idle     : 0 days 1 hours 27 mins 1 secs [signon: Thu Aug 16
<Mithrandir> is what my irc client claimed
<mdz> hildon-control-panel will need to be built with the new glib, presumably
<Mithrandir> mdz: yes, I'll need to give back a bunch of packages once the new glib is in.
<Mithrandir> seb128: anyway, my point wasn't to pick on you, sorry.
<mdz> mobile-basic-flash is missing
<Mithrandir> yeah, it's multiverse, so post-universe, unless I bump it.
<Mithrandir> seb128: do you have any comments on the revised patch?
<mdz> somehow, moblin-keyboard-manager got built, despite libhildon-desktop0 being missing
<seb128> Mithrandir: no problem ;) I've been around just not typing on IRC ;)
<seb128> Mithrandir: looking
<mdz> is that because it was bootstrapped partway on i386?
<Mithrandir> mdz: apt-get probably.  I think we still have the evil apt hack in place which will pull binaries from i386 if they don't exist on lpia
<Mithrandir> Adam talked about removing that soon, since we should now be mostly out of circular build-dep-land.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: That's correct for what Adam told me.
<seb128> Mithrandir: where is the revised patch?
<agoliveira> Yeay! BUILDING lpia build of mouseemu 0.15-8ubuntu1 in ubuntu gutsy RELEASE (AUTO)
<Mithrandir> seb128: it's just changing 4,3 => 4,2 in debian/patches/67_gcc43-inline.patch
<Mithrandir> seb128: I can give you a debdiff if you want, but it seems slightly overkill. :-)
<mdz> Mithrandir: and renaming it to ..._gcc42-inline.patch ;-)
<seb128> Mithrandir: looks good to me
<seb128> feel free to upload if you didn't do it yet
<seb128> you did; excellent ;)
<Mithrandir> mdz: I left the name, but changed the comment at the top saying "gcc 4.2 and 4.3"
<Mithrandir> well, changed it so it now says "4.2 and 4.3" at least.
<Mithrandir> asac: midbrowser seems to ftbfs on lpia
<Mithrandir> asac: http://rafb.net/p/tqu4B040.html
* agoliveira never saw so many acronyms in life: ftbfs? fail to build... something?
<Mithrandir> fails to build from source
<agoliveira> Well, almost got it :)
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: just keep asking; I'm happy to expand them for you.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I will.
<agoliveira> Thanks
<agoliveira> lpia is building norwegian support. Who needs that? :)
<asac> Mithrandir: yes
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: :-P
<agoliveira> ;)
<asac> Mithrandir: it needs the fix that we gave firefox
<asac> e.g. build with gcc-4.1
<Mithrandir> asac: ok, can you do it or do you have a fix?
<agoliveira> I'm going lunch now or wont' make it time for the meeting.
<amitk_> agoliveira: BenC once said this "[Tue Jul 3 2007]  [17:17:33]  <BenC>      yeah, TMI, IMO, KWIM"
<asac> i can do it ... what bothered me more so far was to get the mobile-flash thing build against midbrowser intead of xulrunner
<agoliveira> amitk_: Damn :)
<asac> Mithrandir: anyway ... i still hope to get toolchain people fix the gcc bug that makes all mozillas fail to build on gcc-4.2
<Mithrandir> asac: get gtkmozembed to build against midbrowser, I presume?
<asac> yes
<Mithrandir> that'd be nice, so we don't have to ship two browsers. :-)
<asac> well atm it only works with xulrunner
<asac> which we almost certainly don't want to use
<Mithrandir> is that hard to fix?
<Mithrandir> (sorry for asking clueless questions.)
<mdz> Mithrandir: what's the next problem up the stack with lpia?
<Mithrandir> midbrowser blocks mobile-basic-flash
<Mithrandir> but asac's working on that
<mdz> ok, anything else?
<Mithrandir> yay, installing gtk2-engines-sapwood made it all look quite a lot better.
<asac> Mithrandir: the problem is that someone has to do that ... so far carl is supposed to look into that
<Mithrandir> asac: I was just talking about the build fix, not making the mobile browser great.
<Mithrandir> asac: afaik, that's something you would be better at doing?
<Mithrandir> I think moblin-image-creator needs some adjustments to know how to do lpia; I'll discuss that at the meeting tonight.
<asac> Mithrandir: no ... mobile-basic-flash is only testable in a image creator created environment
<asac> Mithrandir: which is just overhead for me atm (given that i do all these things mostly in my sparetime)
<Mithrandir> asac: I think we are talking about different things here?  You're talking about getting gtkmozembed fixed, aren't you?
<asac> Mithrandir: yes ... getting mobild-basic-flash use midbrowser
<asac> before that ... "midbrowser blocks mobile-basic-flash" is a wrong statement
<Mithrandir> no, it's not.  mobile-basic-flash build-depends on midbrowser.
<asac> well ... look at the Depends: ... libxul0
<asac> Mithrandir: anyway ... midbrowser will be uploaded tomorrow, ok?
<Mithrandir> mdz: http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia-2.png, btw.
<Mithrandir> asac: mind if I just do it myself, then?
<asac> no ... if you update bzr branch i am fine
<asac> you can get the commit from firefox branch
<Mithrandir> what are the branch urls?
<mdz> Mithrandir: I just ran an ubuntu-meta update to see what's become available on lpia since the last one, and it wants to remove mobile-basic-flash. is that expected?
<Mithrandir> mdz: no, that's not expected.
<asac> Mithrandir: https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/firefox/ubuntu-2.0.0.x ... commit 82
<mdz> Removed mobile-basic-flash from mobile-i386, mobile-amd64, mobile-powerpc, mobile-ia64, mobile-sparc
<asac> Mithrandir: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/midbrowser/ubuntu
<mdz> due to: ? Unknown mobile package: mobile-basic-flash
<Mithrandir> mobile-basic-flash |        0.4 | gutsy/universe | amd64, i386, powerpc
<mdz> mobile-basic-flash |        0.4 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/multiverse Packages
<Mithrandir> I wonder why germinate is thinking that it's unknown then.
<mdz> multiverse vs. universe?
<Mithrandir> source in multiverse, binaries in universe
<Mithrandir> well, that's not right, but it's been that for a while, I think
<Mithrandir> been like that, even
<Mithrandir> asac: thanks, I'll see what I can get done, then
<lool> Mithrandir: (I was afk) Which patch do you mean?  The one allowing glib to build on gcc 4.2?
<lool> It has some logic to detect the compilrr IIRC
<Mithrandir> lool: yes, or rather, expanding the 4.3 check to cover 4.2 too.  Seb's answered, but thanks.
<lool> http://paste.debian.net/34773
<lool> Mithrandir: Ah so this works for gcc 4.2 too?
<mdz> lool: notice that the duplicate Debian bug was reporting the failure with gcc 4.2
<lool> Mithrandir: But #define G_INLINE_FUNC extern inline was working with 4.2 I think
<Mithrandir> lool: it was needed to get some hildon packages building on lpia.
<mdz> Mithrandir: that was the Packages file, so i386 binaries are in multiverse at least
<Mithrandir> mdz: not according to rmadison, but I guess somebody might have moved them
<lool> mdz: Yeah #424557 was for 4.2; I thought it was working for 4.2, but obviously not
<lool> I'll extend the check to 4.2 too; thanks!
<Mithrandir> mdz: seems like somebody corrected the component mismatches
<lool> 16:26 < Mithrandir> mdz: I left the name, but changed the comment at the top  saying "gcc 4.2 and 4.3"
<lool> I did exactly the same :)
<asac> Mithrandir: ok i have a few minutes after a short break ... will upload midbrowser then.
<Mithrandir> thanks
<asac> Mithrandir: Accepted midbrowser 0.1.6a-0ubuntu2
<asac> Mithrandir: will you ping infinity to give it a spin on lpia?
<Mithrandir> asac: yay, thanks.
<Mithrandir> yes, will do.
<Mithrandir> hi Charlie, Rusty.
<Mithrandir> kwwii: I'd like to chat with you about keyboard layouts at some point, but probably not during the meeting.
* agoliveira waves all
<kwwii> Mithrandir: ok, I'll be around between this meeting and the distro team meeting later
<Mithrandir> kwwii: excellent.
<rustyl> hello all.. morning/evening/whatever
* agoliveira needs a coffee... yawn...
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Hello - Did your Menlow systems arrive yet?
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: no. :-(
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: is there any kind of tracking you or Mauri can do on your end?
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  I'll have to check.  Did you get tracking info ??
<mdz> hello all
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: yes.  We can discuss this after the meeting?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Are you going to use mootbot?
<Mithrandir> oh, it's here.
<Mithrandir> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:55. The chair is Mithrandir.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
<agoliveira> Yep :)
<mdz> Mithrandir: I asked them to bring it in here
<Mithrandir> woo
<Mithrandir> I hadn't noticed.
<rustyl> cool bot
<mawhalen> mawhalen joined
<Mithrandir> hiya Mauri.  Still no sign of the menlow systems, btw. :-(
<mawhalen> I'll try to track it right now
<Mithrandir> thanks.
* agoliveira know how this feels very well
<Charliefjohnson> Bryce has one.  (i.e. a Menlow) can you remotely access?
<Mithrandir> unless he has a full ip-enabled KVM setup at his house, I don't think so.
<Mithrandir> so, given only Amit and I've submitted status reports, we'll do status updates on the other specs, then any other business.
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: I asked Waldo to send an update on hw decode to the mailing list.  Probably hasn't seen it yet.
<Mithrandir> I'll try to get the reminder out on Wednesday next week, so people will hopefully see it and act on it.
<rob_> rob is here as well
<Mithrandir> asac: are you around?
<asac> sure
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: I'll ping Waldo, Henry and Hari to make sure they post updates on Wed. from now on.
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: thanks.
<Mithrandir> anybody know where Bob is?
<Mithrandir> or who are local to him and can phone him.
<mawhalen> I'll find him
<asac> Mithrandir: just summon me when we get to browser ... 
<Mithrandir> asac: I was planning on starting with browser.
<Mithrandir> since it's at the top of the list
<mdz> [TOPIC]  midbrowser status
<mdz> Mithrandir: oop, it will only listen to you
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  midbrowser status
<MootBot> New Topic:  midbrowser status 
<Mithrandir> mdz: yeah, we should get them to remove the ACL stuff; it's not really needed.
<agoliveira> mootbot is monogamic :)
<Mithrandir> bspencer: good morning. :-)
<bspencer> morning
<Mithrandir> bspencer: can you and asac give us an update on browser status?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Hi
<asac> new midbrowser package was just uploaded that should build on lpia
<bspencer> asac, I played with it a little and it looks like it is making good progress
<asac> from upstream development i made not much progress, because i was busted bringing my other specs in beta for feature freeze
<asac> (in laste week)
<asac> bspencer: can we talk after the meeting a bit?
<bspencer> sure
<mdz> I noticed that with the bits we have in gutsy, the browser can't be launched from the home screen, though it works from the command line
<bspencer> carl said you wanted to talk about the value of Hildon window
<asac> mdz: thats interesting ... do you see any errors?
<Mithrandir> mdz: I think I fixed that with the new mobile-application-service, which fixed the path, but I haven't actually tested it yet..
<bspencer> mdz, ?   I'll fix that today
<mdz> asac: I wouldn't know where to look
<rustyl> mdz, i bet the problem is in the home applet conf.xml file
<mdz> is there an error log for the X session?
<bspencer> a simple change, but sorry it is broken
<rustyl> /usr/share/mobile-basic-flash/conf.xml
<Mithrandir> ~/.xession-errors
<mdz> no, I looked th ere
<mdz> there
<bspencer> mdz, unlikely that you would see an error in a log.  But you could always hit Shift and see the error window in the flash
<mdz> there is no ~/.xsession-errors, at least not with the daily image builds
<Mithrandir> hm, there should be now.  I'll investigate.
<mdz> bspencer: ah, is that what activates that...I did that inadvertently recently
<agoliveira> bspencer: It does not seem to be working anymore.
<agoliveira> I mean the shift
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to check up on daily image build status (and ping Adam for logfiles again)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to check up on daily image build status (and ping Adam for logfiles again) 
<bspencer> the flash should be better behaved and log errors.  We'll do that
<mdz> rustyl: points to /usr/bin/mobile-browser
<mdz> should be /midbrowser
<rustyl> mdz, then we need to update the mobile-basic-flash package in gutsy with the latest in moblin
<mdz> Mithrandir: there's a build dated today, which works
<mdz> (as well as gutsy anyway)
<bspencer> summary:  browser status:  toolbars at the bottom, <almost> launchable from UI.  Next steps:  hildon menus and top-level window.
<kyleN> anyone know how the default UME icon theme is set?
<mdz> [AGREED]  stdout/stderr from the home screen should be logged somewhere
<Mithrandir> [AGREED]  stdout/stderr from the home screen should be logged somewhere
<MootBot> AGREED received:  stdout/stderr from the home screen should be logged somewhere 
<Mithrandir> kyleN: it's set from /etc/X11/Xsession.d/25ume-config-samsung-q1-ultra_startup, iirc.
<mdz> kyleN: (note: the weekly status meeting is in progress)
<kyleN> Thanks gandalf, I mean Mithrandir ;)
<Mithrandir> bspencer: how's the process of bringing those bits into Ubuntu going?
<mdz> Mithrandir: should we talk about that as a general topic?
<bspencer> Mithrandir: you mean the browser bits?
<Mithrandir> bspencer: yes
<rustyl> btw, the home applet is in the hildon-desktop process, so the request is really to capture the stderr/stdout of the hildon-desktop
<Mithrandir> mdz: good idea.
<mdz> [TOPIC]  process for getting moblin.org updates into gutsy regularly
<bspencer> asac should comment.  They have just source on moblin, w/o packaging.  The only browser package is the Ubuntu package which is working
<asac> Mithrandir: bspencer we could do a preview release ... but actually I would prefer not to do new "upstream" releases for every tiny feature we have
<Mithrandir> mdz: can we do it after the status updates, please?
<mdz> Mithrandir: sure
<mdz> Mithrandir: I have a few other agenda items when we get there
<Mithrandir> mdz: ack.
<Mithrandir> seems like the browser is going ok, then.
<Mithrandir> so let's move on to mobile-graphics.
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Graphics
<MootBot> New Topic:  Graphics 
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: how's that going?
<asac> bspencer: we can talk about release policy after meeting as well ... please ping me when meeting is over.
<bspencer_> asac, sure
<bspencer_> ok
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Re-plan is complete but I'm not allowed to release dates yet.  Hopefully today
<Mithrandir> ok.
<Mithrandir> so you can't really give us any useful status update just yet?
<mdz> Charliefjohnson: can you hint at whether there will be action needed on our part in the near term?
<Charliefjohnson> Email from Bryce indicated the Alpha 2D driver is in gutsy now.  Have now verified that yet.
<Charliefjohnson> s/now/not/
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  No near term actions required other than the 2D driver integration that Bryce and Jacob were working on.
<Mithrandir> ok
<rob_> amitk_, did the psb driver and drm make it into the kernel modules yet?
<amitk_> rob_: yes they did
<amitk_> there is going to be a new kernel upload today, I believe
<rob_> amitk_: is it built and we can pull it into an image built by image-creator?
<amitk_> So, if everything goes alright, you should have a build by tomorrow
<Mithrandir> so we need to check on whether the X driver and the necessary bits for it to work are in the archive, but otherwise it should be under control?  Assuming the kernel lands today, that is.
<rob_> amitk_: we'll test it tomorrow then and update the crown beach config's xorg.conf then to use the new driver if evrything is working
<Mithrandir> let's move on, then.
<amitk_> rob_: sounds good. Hopefully I hear something about the crown beach systems by then :)
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  UI
<MootBot> New Topic:  UI 
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir, amitk_ , rob_ : the psd driver shows up in a search of the gutsy packages now.
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: good to hear.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: your item; what's the current status?
<bspencer> 3 tongs in the fire
<rustyl> FYI, while talking about the UI... we make a change in the mobile home flash plugin so that the mobile-application-service is no longer needed
<bspencer> clean up flash UI so it behaves well
<bspencer> 2) get Ken's UI working with some new marquee plugins
<bspencer> 3) start investigating another possible UI example.
<bspencer> (using Clutter toolkit)
<bspencer> for #1), yes rusty pointed out that we no longer start applications with the mobile-application-service
<bspencer> this will be removed
<rustyl> but... ubuntu-mobile still pulls in the package
<agoliveira> bspencer: Nice
<mdz> Mithrandir: the same mobile-application-service that you just fixed?
<Mithrandir> rustyl: that's easily fixed once we have the new flash ui in
<bspencer> rustyl, we would update both mobile-basic-flash and reomve the other at the same time
<bspencer> right
<bspencer> so we can take care of that in the next day.
<Mithrandir> mdz: I don't think I touched it, no?
<bspencer> for #2) Ken's UI we have started some work on these new plugins.
<rob_> Charliefjohnson, where are you searching? we have it defined on moblin to work with our kernel, jacob sent email about it yesterday
<bspencer> nothing to show yet
<mdz> Mithrandir: s/fixed/uploaded/
<Mithrandir> rustyl: is the git repo updated with the new flash?  If so, I can do it right away.
<mdz> so it's obsolete now?
<mdz> or just note used by the flash UI?
<mdz> s/note/not/
<Mithrandir> mdz: it was first uploaded some time ago, I haven't touched it lately
<rustyl> Mithrandir, yes, the git repo for mobile-basic-flash is updated
<mdz> Mithrandir: <Mithrandir> mdz: I think I fixed that with the new mobile-application-service, which fixed the path, but I haven't actually tested it yet..
<Mithrandir> oh, that was uploaded a week or so ago
<Mithrandir> or at least a couple of days.
<Charliefjohnson> rob_: I meant the psb 2D driver.  Not the kernel drm modules.
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to update ubuntu-mobile package and upload new mobile-basic-flash
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to update ubuntu-mobile package and upload new mobile-basic-flash 
<Mithrandir> how's 2) and 3) going?
<rustyl> Mithrandir, also... the image-creator was updated to no longer explicity install mobile-application-service
<rob_> Charliefjohnson, ah, got it
<bspencer> we've started #2, nothing to show yet.
<bspencer> probably anothre couple of weeks to get the first screen with the big icons
<bspencer> for #3) We have a couple guys investigating Clutter usage for some visual niceties in the home screen.  We would like to get Ubuntu-mobile a non-flash UI asap.
<bspencer> but probably mid-Sept for anyhting usable.
<agoliveira> bspencer: CLutter?
<bspencer> clutter is an OpenGL toolkit
<bspencer> from openedhand
<Mithrandir> bspencer: how will clutter work sans 3d accel?
<agoliveira> Ok.
<bspencer> like Pigment
<bspencer> Mithrandir, we'll see
<mdz> ...slowly
<bspencer> :)
<rustyl> while talking about clutter, we do have confirmation that Clutter is doing the right thing (power wise) when no animations are running.  The same can not be said for Adobe Flash
<agoliveira> Tell me about it...
<mdz> sounds like something worth checking before committing to it
<bspencer> is kwwii online?
<mdz> kwwii: ping
<rustyl> clutter-project.org
<bspencer> our flash buy is out on sabbatical now, so I'm playing with it a bit, but I'm sure we could improve the way flash is using power
<mdz> looks like not, best to mail  him
<bspencer> I think it is still running 30 frames / sec when just sitting there.
<bspencer> playing a "movie"
<bspencer> not the best for power
<bspencer> I'll chat with Ken about it
<rustyl> the number of processor wakeups is not == fps
<rustyl> it's much much worse
<kwwii> yepp, I am here
* agoliveira will take a look sometime for old time as opengl developer sake :)
<bspencer> kwwii, I'll chat with you offline about our flash stuff if you have a sec after the mtg
<bspencer> and also wanted to chat about themes again briefly
<kwwii> bspencer: sure, I'll be here :-)
<Mithrandir> bspencer: themes in or out of the meeting?
<bspencer> Mithrandir, either, if you want 
<bspencer> I was thinking after
<Mithrandir> shorter meeting is good, so after is fine
<Mithrandir> moving on then
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  power-thermal-optimizations
<MootBot> New Topic:  power-thermal-optimizations 
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: yours again
<Charliefjohnson> Amit sent out status on the thermal extension integration?  Correct?
<amitk_> right
<Mithrandir> ok, so that's covered there, then
<amitk_> I've received the patches from Intel. I am going to have to beat them into shape for git consumption. Should be in the next upload (not todays)
<Charliefjohnson> amitk_, Mithrandir : Looks like next week is the target ?
<mdz> amitk_: who is doing the kernel upload today? kyle?
<amitk_> mdz: yes
<amitk_> Charliefjohnson: next week for integration at the earliest. I am not sure about the next kernel upload though.
<Mithrandir> ok, moving on
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  USB Client
<MootBot> New Topic:  USB Client 
<Mithrandir> I still haven't had time to review it properly, sorry, but I hope there's been some progress on the implementation?
<Charliefjohnson> USB Client is in the same boat as Graphics.  Re-plan complete but I can't release dates yet.
<Charliefjohnson> I just received a status - I'll post to mailing list.
<Mithrandir> ok, thanks.
<Mithrandir> let's just move on then.
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Utilities
<MootBot> New Topic:  Utilities 
<bspencer> ToddBrandt has been working on Utilities from our side
<Mithrandir> bspencer: LP lists that as blocked; we discussed that some time ago and you were going to mark it appropriately?
<bspencer> if ToddBrandt is here he can comment on that...  if not...
<bspencer> there are two choices there
<bspencer> we found the main issue
<bspencer> a GTK bug related to iconview
<Mithrandir> idle 9 hours, so probably not around.
<Mithrandir> he was around in my morning.
<bspencer> and the size that is reported
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, will send out a solution in the next couple of days
<bspencer> the right thing is a patch upstream to GTK
<bspencer> but there is also a workaround in the Hildon Control Panel code
<bspencer> good news is that we won't be blocked
<rustyl> and it's a pretty small workaround
<bspencer> so we can continue
<Mithrandir> does the patch to upstream GTK exist already or does it need to be developed?
<bspencer> ToddBrandt, has been working on pulling in the existing ubuntu control panel related projects and analysiing their usefulness
<bspencer> Mithrandir, it needs to be developed, though we know where the code is 
<Mithrandir> ok, then I suggest we put in the workaround in hildon for now.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, right.  That is what Todd is doing today
<bspencer> should be there very soon.  
<Mithrandir> ok, coolie.
<rustyl> ToddBrandt sent an email with the hildon control panel patch to the ubuntu-mobile mailing list, and this email also explains what is happening
<Mithrandir> I'll get it applied & uploaded then.
<mdz> I saw a list of components with their probable bases
<bspencer> ah!  I see that.  OK.  
<mdz> I think it was on the list, but it would be nice to have a copy in the wiki to keep up to date
<bspencer> mdz, ok, I'll follow up with ToddBrandt to get his information there
<mdz> great
<bspencer> he has a good list.  Has done what agoliveira did for apps
<agoliveira> bspencer: What a lousy guy he must be...
<agoliveira> :)
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  ToddBrandt to add list of control panel applications to wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to add list of control panel applications to wiki 
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to upload new hildon-control-panel with gtk workaround.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to upload new hildon-control-panel with gtk workaround. 
<Mithrandir> how does the list of needed control panel applets look?
<Mithrandir> as in, does it seem we have most of them already and they just need to be hildonised?
<bspencer> mixed bag
<Mithrandir> any hard ones?
<bspencer> the UI-related tasks will need to be redone
<bspencer> but network can be very similar
<bspencer> system status == easy
<Mithrandir> ok
<bspencer> screen calibration, there are some existing tools
<Mithrandir> I tested nm-applet on my device and it generally just worked.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, same.  glad about that
<bspencer> volume controls  are the same
<bspencer> and we have a brightness control applet already too
<bspencer> so we should get 3-4 key applets working in the next week
<Mithrandir> nice.
<mdz> indeed, the dialog is ugly and the button is hard to hit, but the functionality is there
<mdz> (NM)
<Mithrandir> sounds like there are exciting things happening with the control panel applet code now, then.
<Mithrandir> thanks
<Mithrandir> moving on
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  media player
<MootBot> New Topic:  media player 
<bspencer> Mithrandir, yes, it is great to have a dedicated resource on control panel
<bspencer> media player is also moving ahead.  2 big things to do...
<bspencer> 1) bspencer to get media player launchpad site updated
<bspencer> 2) get latest media player bits into ubuntu-mobile
<Mithrandir> current git just needs to be uploaded?
<bspencer> with #1, we will then need to discuss the gaps for a full media experience.  There are some holes that no one is owning yet
<bspencer> Mithrandir, right.
<bspencer> we are working on media playback and simple playlist creation
<bspencer> but there is no one looking at media syncing yet
<rob_> bspencer, has anyone tested the brightness control on Menlow HW, i thought it at some point touches ACPI so i'm wondering if ACPI exposes what you need for the brightness control
<bspencer> (aside from "USB client")
<bspencer> rob_, ask tariq
<Mithrandir> bspencer: do we want those to be separate?
<bspencer> well, let's not decide that here.  But after we get a good spec uploaded we can go over the details
<bspencer> I'll have that done by Friday
<bspencer>  [Action.... ]   
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  bspencer to update media player spec
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to update media player spec 
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to upload new media player
<MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to upload new media player 
<Mithrandir> looks right?
<bspencer> yes
<bspencer> one more thing I'll note before moving on...
<bspencer> the media player will have a new plugin capability
<bspencer> which allows applications to be registered to handle certain content types
<Charliefjohnson> Folks: Have to attend staff meeting in 3 minutes.  Send email if you need something.  Can we make sure and discuss the broken daily builds ?? (i.e. won't install.)
<mdz> Charliefjohnson: current build installed fine for me
<mdz> 20070816
<bspencer> so if you are in the media player and select JPG, BMP, PNG, for example, you could have a "Flickr uploader" app icon show up
<bspencer> ok.  that's all I have for media player
<Mithrandir> bspencer: that sounds like useful functionality, indeed
<mdz> what's next?
<Charliefjohnson> mdz: I should have clarified - on Menlow.  You can't test that yet but could Bryce take a look at it since he has a Menlow?
<mdz> Charliefjohnson: possibly, but Bryce has a lot of commitments beyond mobile. we really need to get menlow hardware to the mobile team
<Mithrandir> since Charlie is leaving, I'll skip hardware decode and give him an action item instead
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  Charliefjohnson to send status update for hardware decode to ubuntu-mobile list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Charliefjohnson to send status update for hardware decode to ubuntu-mobile list 
<Mithrandir> I think that was the end of the status updates; the rest are informational or already have had their status updates.
<Mithrandir> +sent
<Mithrandir> mdz: you wanted to discuss bringing bits from moblin.org into UME?
<Mithrandir> anybody got other business they want to discuss?
<rob_> SDIO
<mdz> Mithrandir: yes
<mdz> Mithrandir: also, you might want to update the rest of the folks here about your progress on lpia
<agoliveira> Applications status. I want to know about intel side as well.
<Mithrandir> mdz: ack.
<Mithrandir> rob,agoliveira: added to agenda
<mdz> agreed, would like an update from agoliveira on apps status
<mdz> also would like to touch on where we stand relative to hildon upstream
<mdz> and briefly on bug tracking
<bspencer> agoliveira, I'd like to chat about that too
<Mithrandir> ok
<bspencer> mdz, hildon +1
<Mithrandir> let's start then?
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Bringing bits from moblin.org into Ubuntu
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bringing bits from moblin.org into Ubuntu 
<mdz> ok, there seem to be a few different channels for code arriving into UME
<mdz> we have bits which are part of Ubuntu already, and possibly tweaked for UME (including tweaks specific to the lpia build, as agoliveira is doing)
<mdz> we have bits coming from bazaar repositories in LP and uploaded by Mithrandir
<mdz> we have bits which live on moblin.org in git, and are published in the package repository there
<mdz> for that latter category, we seem to have a lag in getting things updated in gutsy
<mdz> and I'd like to discuss ways in which we could improve that, so that we're increasingly working with the same code base
<mdz> I think at present, uploads are done by Mithrandir on request
<mdz> Mithrandir: ?
<Mithrandir> yes, and when I chance anything myself and I think a release is appropritate.
<Mithrandir> I do commit a bit to the moblin.org git repositories for those bits which live there.
<mdz> I'd like to suggest that we consider a) syncing of packages from the moblin repository into gutsy, b) syncing of packages from moblin into a PPA (and thereafter into gutsy), and c) moblin folks having privileges to make direct uploads to gutsy
<rob_> mdz: PPA?
<Mithrandir> c) sounds like the best long-term approach to me, but it'll require some effort for people to go through MOTU and such.
<mdz> rob_: PPA is a service offered as part of Launchpad, which builds packages and publishes them in an archive accessible by apt
<Mithrandir> especially since I want UME to end up in main and not just universe.
<agoliveira> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
<mdz> Mithrandir: it make take a little time, but well worth it I think
<mdz> jono agreed to contact mawhalen to connect the relevant people on  both sides
<rustyl> how much time are we talking about?
<mawhalen> jono contacted me but I haven't heard back from him
<bspencer> rustyl, is a good start for MOTU on our side
<agoliveira> I would love 1) but looks there's a security problem in it? So 2) Looks the best option to me short-term.
<mdz> rustyl: given that you clearly already know how to make packages, it involves having some folks review your work and acknowledge that, so that you can be granted privileges
<agoliveira> rustyl: Don't worry, I'm also in the same situation.
<mdz> we'll dedicate time on the parts of jono and dholbach to helping the process along
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: syncing is fine, but they obviously have to be checked by hand first; we don't want to blindingly sync packages. :-)
<rustyl> so then regardless of what we do for the short term, we should start a couple of us Intel guys in the MOTU direction
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sure. +1 to option 2.
<rustyl> btw, i think most of the problems that we have seen are related to the way we do builds on moblin.org
<mdz> Mithrandir: right, the issues are more or less the same as syncing from any third-party repository
<Mithrandir> rustyl: I don't think the process behind how and when you do builds is entirely clear to the rest of us.
<mdz> the idea being that once we're confident with a particular package, we can sync it with only minimal review
<rustyl> anytime any source is touch in a moblin repository, the code is built and a package uploaded to the moblin apt repository
<rustyl> and i think this needs to change
<mdz> rustyl: what's the URL for that repository?
<rustyl> what we (moblin) need to have the package upload be islolated from the autobuild
<rustyl> mdz, just a second... let me dig that up
<Mithrandir> deb http://www.moblin.org/apt gaston main
<rustyl> yea, that's it
<mdz> [LINK]  http://www.moblin.org/apt
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.moblin.org/apt 
<Mithrandir> part of the problem is having two repositories means we lose common ground and once something hits moblin, there's less incentive for anybody using moblin.org to push it further into Ubuntu.
<mdz> rustyl: one idea would be to continue what you're doing with the moblin repository, but when you want to do a more official release, push it over into gutsy
<mdz> Mithrandir: indeed
<Mithrandir> given that we want everything to end up in Ubuntu (eventually), that's suboptimal.
<rustyl> mdz, but the problem is that the image-creator (if not patched like in gutsy), pulls from both repositories
<mdz> we see a degraded experience installing the Ubuntu builds on devices, compared to what you're seeing with builds based on moblin
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: specially as moblin's are more up to date
<mdz> rustyl: presumably you did that for a reason, no?
<rustyl> mdz, and then developers fix various problems, and when they see the issue resolve from an image created by image-creator then they think of it as "done"
<rustyl> mdz, yes, for the reason of making it very easy to do rapid development
<mdz> rustyl: right, that's where we have a disconnect, and I'd like to try to get us closer to working with the same code base
<Mithrandir> so we need to get them to not think of it as done, but only as "ok, this is the right fix, now I need to get it into Ubuntu"
<rustyl> yea, we do
<mdz> (fyi, I have a call in 12 minutes and will need to duck mostly out)
<mdz> rustyl: perhaps one person could be responsible for pushing things into gutsy which are 'ready'
<mdz> though I'm not sure there's a big difference between what we'd want in gutsy and what you are committing to git at this point
<mdz> because we're in such an early stage
<rustyl> we could start with one person, and I could take that on, but ideally the project maintainer would have that ability
<Mithrandir> if nothing else, dropping me a mail or a line on IRC means I can check and upload.
<mdz> rustyl: so in addition to some folks being able to push packages directly through  MOTU, we have the sync idea
<rustyl> on the moblin side we need to rethink this a little
<mdz> where Mithrandir or another Ubuntu archive admin can receive a request to put package X version Y into gutsy, and copy it straight over from moblin
<Mithrandir> (though making me more critical-path than I already am is probably not a good idea, so getting some moblin people through MOTU is a good idea).
<mdz> rustyl: do you want to take this back and discuss it with others, then raise it on the mailing list?
<rustyl> yes, that would be good
<mdz> we have all the tools we need, I think, just need to decide on a workflow which works for everyone
* Mithrandir nods.
<Mithrandir> move on?
<mdz> ok
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Status relative to upstream hildon
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status relative to upstream hildon 
<mdz> we took some snapshots when doing the initial packaging of hildon
<bspencer> yes, we need to resync with their latest
<mdz> and they've surely moved on since then, while we've been busy with other things
<bspencer> and there are a few patches 3-4 which I don't think are upstream
<agoliveira> Indeed
<bspencer> very true
<bspencer> so agoliveira and I should get this sync'd
<mdz> I think there's a question to be asked, about whether this is something we need to pursue
<bspencer> I'll get a summary of the patches I know and propose them on the hildon-libs mailing list
<mdz> is it important to have the latest bits from hildon?  and if so, by what point in the release process?
<bspencer> mdz, I think we should have a goal of using their Sept official release
<mdz> sounds like it probably is, at least for some componetns
<agoliveira> Right now hildon is still a moving target as they are refactoring a lot of things.
<mdz> probably some more than others
<bspencer> after that I don't think we need to track their daily changes until their next official releas
<Mithrandir> I like the idea of using official releases from them
<mdz> probably some we can safely track, and others are changing a lot as rustyl points out
<agoliveira> +1
<mdz> if they are doing milestone releases, that would be ideal
<agoliveira> mdz: They don't
<bspencer> so I think a sync again now, and again after Sept19th release (with GNOME) would be good.
<bspencer> or if we want to wait until Sept, I am also fine with that.
<mdz> alternatively, we could spend some time talking with upstream about their plans, and decide based on that
<bspencer> we should do that
<bspencer> in any case
<Mithrandir> sync now and when they release sounds like a good plan, but also talking with upstream and seeing what they think.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: can you do that?
<bspencer> yes
<rustyl> do we know if any of the upstream changes change the API's
<bspencer> should I cross-post my question to ubuntu-mobile list and hildon-libs?
<bspencer> rustyl, I don't know yet
<agoliveira> bspencer: I think we can wait. Syncing now could introduce changes that would require us to fix our side too. One more delay.
<mdz> bspencer: good idea
<bspencer> rustyl, but Moises has usually kept me in the loop on new things, at least he did for a while
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  bspencer to talk with hildon upstream about hildon release plans and what we should base ourselves on.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to talk with hildon upstream about hildon release plans and what we should base ourselves on. 
<bspencer> got it.
<mdz> agoliveira: are you subscribed to the hildon list(s)?
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  rusty to discuss how to handle moving code from moblin->gutsy, follow up with discussion on ubuntu-mobile
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rusty to discuss how to handle moving code from moblin->gutsy, follow up with discussion on ubuntu-mobile 
<agoliveira> mdz: Since the beginning.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, so does Mootbot send an email after the meeting?
<mdz> bspencer: it publishes an HTML summary
<Mithrandir> bspencer: unsure, I'm looking forward to finding out.
<bspencer> me too :)
<Mithrandir> ok, so moving on.  I'd like to briefly touch on bug tracking before mdz runs off
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Bug tracking
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bug tracking 
<agoliveira> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
<mdz> two separate issues here
<mawhalen> Mithrandir: I have a meeting in 2 minutes and will run off, I just received email from Steve Alexander about Launchpad/Bugzilla
<mdz> one, there have been questions on the mailing list about where to file Ubuntu bugs which are specifically relevant to UME
<mdz> two, what mawhalen said
<mdz> I also have to run though
<mawhalen> I'll follow up with Steve
<mdz> we can cover this out of band
* mdz -> gone
<Mithrandir> ok, good, and we get a summary next week
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  mdz and mawhalen to follow up on bug tracking discussions and report back next week or on mailing list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz and mawhalen to follow up on bug tracking discussions and report back next week or on mailing list 
* mawhalen gone
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  SDIO
<MootBot> New Topic:  SDIO 
<Mithrandir> rob_: you wanted to talk about sdio stuff?
* agoliveira is back in 2 minutes. Doorbell.
<rob_> so we were discussing last week about how/when to include Pierre's SDIO patch
<rob_> amitk_, was going to discuss it with others at Ubuntu, so was there any update on that?
<amitk_> rob_: unfortunately I didn't get a chance to talk to BenC before he left on vacation. He is back on Monday though, so I should be able to talk to him then
<agoliveira> Sorry. I had to pick-up the mail... darn... only bills again. I should let the postman have them...
<amitk_> what is the estimated schedule for Pierre's SDIO patch?
<amitk_> we have a few more weeks for kernel freeze
<rob_> amitk_, ok, then i'll wait for next for an answer. Pierre's stack is progressing and he's adding API support for hi-speed deivices... I think we can take Pierre's stack and have it working on Menlow HW by end of September (alpha quality) then a month or so to get it working with WLAN/BT multi-function cards
<amitk_> rob_: in that case it won't go in Gutsy
<Mithrandir> how modular is it?  Can we do it as an update?
<amitk_> rob_: whether we pull it in an update is a decision that needs to be taken by BenC.
<rob_> amitk_, then we should have BenC take a look at what Pierre has now
<Mithrandir> amitk_: can you follow up on that with Ben?
<rob_> amitk_, hold on a  minute, i'll give you the link
<amitk_> rob_, Mithrandir: from what I have understood, it is somewhat of a rewrite of the MMC stack. That means it will break stuff in the beginning during the transition to the new stack.
<robr> amitk_: here's a link with Pierre's code: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/drzeus/mmc.git;a=shortlog;h=sdio
<amitk_> rob_: What we might end up doing is that this patchset will only be applied to the UME flavour, without disturbing Gutsy
<rob_> amitk_, that would be safest
<amitk_> rob_: in that case, we can put it in whenever you feel it is ready for testing
<Mithrandir> and then it can go in in an update too?
<amitk_> Mithrandir: are you asking me? ^^^
<rob_> amitk_, that would be a good plan...not sure about the update question
<Mithrandir> amitk_: yes, you're probably in the best position to answer it.
<amitk_> Mithrandir: yes. It should be possible to push it into an update and _hope for the best_. I stress the last part because it is almost certain to cause regressions
<Mithrandir> then we can upload new versions which fix those regressions
<amitk_> but only the UME flavour should get affected
<rob_> when you say update, does that mean for gutsy or for ume flavor?
<Mithrandir> for the ume flavour in gutsy.
<amitk_> right
<rob_> ok. i'd rather fix the regressions than stick to our MSS patch which really only supports the Intel HW we've test against and doesn't co-exist with the current MMC stack
<Mithrandir> ok, so we have agreement on pushing Pierre's SDIO stack into the UME flavour with the goal of having it updated to address regressions?
* agoliveira thinks that would be interesting to watch the result :)
<amitk_> [AGREE}
<Mithrandir> [AGREE]  agreement on pushing Pierre's SDIO stack into the UME flavour with the goal of having it updated to address regressions.
<Mithrandir> [AGREED]  agreement on pushing Pierre's SDIO stack into the UME flavour with the goal of having it updated to address regressions.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  agreement on pushing Pierre's SDIO stack into the UME flavour with the goal of having it updated to address regressions. 
<Mithrandir> that was the command
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  lpia update
<MootBot> New Topic:  lpia update 
<Mithrandir> a small update from the world of LPIA.
<Mithrandir> together with mdz and agoliveira, I fixed a bug in glib today which means all glib-using applications should be unblocked and we can get hildon-* built.
<Mithrandir> http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia-2.png is a Xephyr screenshot running on lpia, in a chroot.
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia-2.png is a Xephyr screenshot running on lpia, in a chroot. 
<agoliveira> and we will be able to have a full lpia chroot to build stuff
<Mithrandir> I'm hoping we can have daily lpia images in the middle of next week.
<Mithrandir> so, quite happy news.
<Mithrandir> any questions?
<amitk_> Mithrandir: The LPIA kernel config should be identical to the current UME flavour, correct?
<agoliveira> Quick note: the arch is being build as we speak
<Mithrandir> amitk_: yes, I think so.
* amitk_ makes a mental note to sync LPIA config with UME config
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  amitk_ to sync lpia and ume kernel configs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  amitk_ to sync lpia and ume kernel configs 
<Mithrandir> there, now it's not just a mental note.
<Mithrandir> move on?
<Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Application status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Application status 
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: the floor is yours.
<agoliveira> Fine.
<amitk_> Is mootbot going to nag about these actions too? :-p
<agoliveira> After the changes on libosso and sapwood the appliactions that already have hildon support are very easy to compile so I already have dates, claws and I'm working on notes. I was suposed to send those to Tollef to upkload but I wanted to test on lpia first and this problem hold me a bit.
<Mithrandir> amitk_: they'll be put on the intarweb
<agoliveira> Anyway you can expect those applications to come out very fast now.
<agoliveira> If it keeps that way we should have one per day or 2.
* amitk_ -> leaving
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: I realise I start sounding like a broken record, but please make sure to push those bits upstream
<bspencer> agoliveira, we are happy to hear that.  anxious to start playing with email so I can make a long list of "to do" for Frank to improve it
<bspencer> agoliveira, will "Claws" have a new name for Hildon version?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: As I said, I wanted to be sure that trhe lpia arch works.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: yup, that's good
<agoliveira> bspencer: NO, same name, different arch
<agoliveira> So i386 will use gtk and lpia, hildon
<bspencer> agoliveira, is there room for big changes there?  We aren't limited by anything if we change the app a lot?
<agoliveira> bspencer: No problem, the source is the same you just need to be sure to respect the conditionals.
<bspencer> agoliveira, ok.  How shall we best push changes to you for these applications?
<Mithrandir> I suspect we want to use claws for the first version, but might want to base the next version off something else, like modest.
<bspencer> all as patches in email ?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I compared both and claws won hands down.
<agoliveira> bspencer: The ideal is to do the way we usually do, apt-get sources, hack, send to someone to upload.
<agoliveira> bspencer: But you can send them to me as well.
<agoliveira> Maybe in the future modest catch up.
<bspencer> agoliveira, sorry for my ignorance.  So we have our own tree which you can see, then I tell you to look at it and merge?
<bspencer> and you maintain the project?
<agoliveira> bspencer: That's sometrhing we need to discuss. Shaw we focus on me or what?
<agoliveira> I don't have a problem getting a patch, appliying and send to upload.
<bspencer> well, Intel wants you to own it, but we want to add lots of patches :)
<agoliveira> Intel wants to pay me extra for that too? :-D
<agoliveira> Kidding...
<bspencer> $$$ 
<bspencer> "in the mail"
<bspencer> ok.  we'll send patches
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: YOur take on this?
<agoliveira> bspencer: Just forget to ask for the Q1 back and we're done ;)
<Mithrandir> sounds fine to me.
<agoliveira> So it's a deal. Send those to me.
<bspencer> agoliveira, I want to touch on chat and camera briefly
<agoliveira> Sure
<bspencer> chat:  we have an empathy chat app working we'll send for you to check out
<agoliveira> Cool
<bspencer> you had plans to use pidgin?
<agoliveira> It's up to you actually.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: have you given any thought on embedding video conferencing in the empathy-based app?
<bspencer> both are probably good, but we wanted something unquestionably legal
<agoliveira> I could use it.
<Mithrandir> we don't want to use pidgin, which is problematic for legal reasons.
<bspencer> Mithrandir, yes, we chatted with Rob McQeen about that yesterday
<Mithrandir> bspencer: I saw it, yes.
<agoliveira> bspencer: Just move the development to Brazil and you're done ;)
<bspencer> so we'd like to get eyes on our current work.  I can take an action item to get Chat into ubuntu-mobile in the next week
<bspencer> but our UI is still sorely in need of love.  I need more time!
<agoliveira> yes, there's the legal crap...
<Mithrandir> bspencer: getting it into ubuntu would be great, yes.
<bspencer> ok.  and about camera...
<bspencer> have you looked at lucview ?
<Mithrandir> [ACTION]  bspencer to work on getting chat app into Ubuntu
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bspencer to work on getting chat app into Ubuntu 
<agoliveira> bspencer: No I settled with Cheese. This one is new to me.
<bspencer> ok.
<bspencer> nothing really there.  We'll try and help a little on the camera app
<bspencer> is Cheese in UME ?
<Mithrandir> it'll be soon, yes.
<bspencer> can I put it in the UI ?  :)
<bspencer> ok.
<agoliveira> bspencer: Not yet but it's in Gutsy
<bspencer> we have not been successful in tracking down a driver for the Q1 or specs either
<Mithrandir> mjg59: is working on pushing the hildon bits upstream
<bspencer> agoliveira, who is working on Cheese?
<bspencer> mjg59, -- is that a Cheesey guy?
<Mithrandir> bspencer: mjg59, Matthew Garrett
<bspencer> thx.
<Mithrandir> we can test with an external webcam for now, I suspect
<kwwii> he is quitre cheesy, indeed
<bspencer> Mithrandir, that is what we're doing.
<bspencer> but not really good for show demos next month
<agoliveira> bspencer: Why is so diffigult to find the data about this camera?
<Jack-Laptop> I think spacview is another choice ,have you tried that
<agoliveira> Looks like is quite close to the Zyxel ones
<bspencer> Jack-Laptop, I haven't.  I'll peek at that too.
<Jack-Laptop> compare with  lucview
<agoliveira> Jack-Laptop: I did but cheese was more promissing.
<bspencer> agoliveira, yes, but all the data says "Vendor specific" and it doesn't "just work" with the video4linux stuff
<bspencer> ok.  I don't have anything I can't chat with offline.
<agoliveira> bspencer: Can't you pull someone's strings? You're Intel for JHC's sake :)
<Jack-Laptop> I have enable video capture prototype with spacview before
<bspencer> agoliveira, I'll see if the all-powerful Genie can assist.
<agoliveira> Cool
<bspencer> Jack-Laptop, that's interesting
<Mithrandir> oh well, any more for mobile apps?
<bspencer> not from me.
<Mithrandir> or, any other business?
<agoliveira> I'm cool
<ian_brasil> who is the best person to contact about the docs on moblin.org?...i have a few things i would like to ask
<Mithrandir> ok, adjourned.
<Mithrandir> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:01.
<Mithrandir> 20:09 <MootBot> Logs available at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/
<kyleN> Mithrandir, can I ask a quick question?
<Mithrandir> kyleN: sure, shoot
<Mithrandir> ian_brasil: unsure, maybe rustyl knows.
<ian_brasil> ok
<kyleN> I see the gtk and mathbox themes are set in the file you pointed me too, but not the "icon theme". how is that set? 
<rustyl> either myself or bspencer can get updates to moblin.org... or is it just a question?
<Mithrandir> kyleN: I think that's sset in the gtk theme
<ian_brasil> i will mail you then
<rustyl> ok
<kyleN> so it is referenced in the gtkrc file?
<Mithrandir> kyleN: I believe so, yes.  bspencer probably knows better
<kyleN> thx
<kwwii> it is set in the gtkrc
<kwwii> Mithrandir: you scared me earlier when you had that long path :-)
<kwwii> Mithrandir: btw, any news on a device making it to me?
<Mithrandir> kwwii: which one?  The one into /etc/X11/Xsession.d?
<kwwii> Mithrandir: yeah :-)
<Mithrandir> kwwii: I can check up on it in the confcall in a little bit.
<Mithrandir> I spent a day mucking around there, so I think I should know the bits.
<kwwii> that should set the theme to use, not the icon set I guess
<bspencer> kwwii, kyleN :  I don't actually know how the icon theme is set
<bspencer> I know how that you can set the overall theme when you launch the window manager
<Mithrandir> kwwii: seen http://www.moblin.org/archives/html/dev/2007-08/msg00105.html ?
<kyleN> .xinitrc specifies the gtkrc and matchbox themes, but I've yet to see where the icon theme is set
<Mithrandir> # grep IconTheme /usr/share/themes/mobilebasic/index.theme
<Mithrandir> IconTheme=default
<Mithrandir> maybe that's the one you're looking for?
<kyleN> that could be it, Mithrandir. I'll test by breaking it.
<Mithrandir> :-)
<agoliveira_BRB> I'm taking a break, be back in a few minunes
<kwwii> Mithrandir: yes, I was looking at that last night
<bspencer> so "default" is a symlink?
<kyleN> my target has the following three icon theme dirs: hildon, gnome, and hicolor (which is the default)
<bspencer> kyleN, yes, mine too.  And hildon gets used by many hildon things
<bspencer> but hicolor gets used sometimes
<kyleN> and gnome gets used for somethings!
<kyleN> some things!
<kwwii> the keyboard idea is well written but there are a few things I think we should discuss in the details of exactly which keys are needed most, etc.
<kwwii> and we need to look into how many modifiers are needed to get to an extended set (or decide how far to extend it)
<mjg59> Re: Cheese - I have a working Hildonised version, and I've been discussing it with upstream. It works well enough on my N800.
<Mithrandir> kwwii: yup, that was the kind of input I want from you.
<kwwii> kyleN, bspencer: none of those icons theme are complete, so they fallback
<kwwii> kyleN, bspencer: and each theme can define a fallback itself, so there are funky hierarchies at play 
<bspencer> kwwii, yes, I want to talk about that
<bspencer> (kwwii keyboard that is)
<bspencer> mjg59, so will upstream support having a Hildon version so we don't have to maintain a different tree?
<kwwii> the full keyboard is a no-brainer, I think - just talking about the smaller one
<mjg59> bspencer: Yes
<bspencer> mjg59, great
<bspencer> kwwii,  right.   Can we hash out a layout and look on the mailing list ?
<bspencer> also, Mithrandir do you understand how Poky's keyboard autolaunches ?
<kwwii> bspencer: certainly, I've started making the design already - should have something together sometime tomorrow
<bspencer> Mithrandir, we'd like to get that working and we assumed we needed either a Gtk patch or Hildon patch
<bspencer> kwwii, you da man
<Mithrandir> bspencer: yes.
<kyleN> kwwii: it this fallback via the "Inherits" key (which is absent in all my index.theme files)
<kwwii> kyleN: lol, yeah, it would have been
<kwwii> kyleN: that would tell me that only certain apps/pieces/whatever are looking for icons in the hildon theme, or that only a few hildon icons exist
<Mithrandir> bspencer: I uploaded a version of matchbox-keyboard which does autolaunching yesterday.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: so if you start matchbox-keyboard -d in a shell, it should pop up and go away as you play
<kyleN> kwwii: actually most images are not in icons themes, but in theme folders, such as /usr/share/themes/mobilebasic/images/mb_drop_down_menu.png
<kwwii> kyleN: ouch, that is nasty (and another reason why changing themes will break the look)
<kwwii> the idea would be to have as few app specific icons as possible
<kyleN> but some are, such as the calculator icon on the Extras menu bar which is in the gnome icon theme dir
<bspencer> Mithrandir, oooo
<Mithrandir> bspencer: I just need to find out if it exits with the session, if so, I can enable it by default in the session startup.
<bspencer> kyleN, thanks to me
<bspencer> kyleN, I put everything in the "images" folder until I could get a clue
<kwwii> we should probably get tigert in on this discussion as he would know exactly why they did things
<kyleN> not to pile on, but then there's the top left menu image (of the desktop) which is here:home/kyle/p001/targets/t001/fs/usr/share/pixmaps/mb_apps_menu.png
<bspencer> and I was hoping kwwii had an extra clue for me to get
<bspencer> it is also in the "images" directory?
<bspencer> kyleN, I wonder if that is cached by hildon in the pixmaps dir?  Hmm...
<kyleN> yes, but the one in images isn't used
<kwwii> in any case, all the icons should be in theme dirs unless it is app specific
<kwwii> and all names should follow the xdg naming spec
<kyleN> ok & ok
<bspencer> yep
<kyleN> I am still uncertain where the default icon theme is set...
<Mithrandir> agoliveira_BRB: your libosso fix doesn't look right, why do you need it, and why do you think it fixes anything?
<kwwii> if I actually had an instance running I could probably help more ;-)
<bspencer> kwwii, have you gotten one running before?
<Mithrandir> kwwii: once apt and friends are installable again, you should be able to get it running.  I can walk you through it in a little bit?
<kwwii> bspencer: nope, I tried twice (a while ago) and gave up
<kwwii> Mithrandir: that would be great
<bspencer> kwwii, can we chat sometime tomorrow with you, me, and horace (intel guy) via irc about theming work we can help with ?
<bspencer> (not the graphics, but the other parts)
<bspencer> we've talked about some tools that would make life easier and we could help with these.
<kyleN> is the hope that UME will support user settable themes?
<kwwii> bspencer: definitely :-)
<kwwii> kyleN: yes, that would be desirable, I think
<bspencer> kyleN, eventually 
<kyleN> cool. I've simply got to go eat. thx all. 
<bspencer> kyleN, I think:  1) get a theme working correctly.  2) document how to change the theme (for ODMs), 3) add support for user-changability 
<bspencer> kwwii -- asac wants hildon theming to work for Gtk menus too
<kyleN> bspencer, yes, those seem like the steps. I guess 1) isn't there yet
<bspencer> so he doesn't have to change mozilla as much
<kwwii> bspencer: that would make things much easier - mozilla themes suck to make
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: IIRC, in the last changes I just fixed the headers so it compiles ok with the current dbus.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: uh, no, it should compile completely fine without those changes.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: you're using pkg-config to get the correct set of compilation flags, aren't you?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: libosso itself yes but programs that deppends on it does not.
<agoliveira> Yes, of course
<Mithrandir> applications that depend on libosso should use pkg-config too
<asac> msg -freenode bspencer i think that would be ok if they are eager to learn and some accustomed on how to build/test/work on large code-bases.
<kwwii> bspencer: erm, you said gtk menus...I assumed that it already supported that (not sure how I got mozilla out of that)
<asac> ups
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Like mauli.h IIRC
<Mithrandir> : tfheen@xoog ~ > pkg-config --cflags libosso
<Mithrandir> -I/usr/include/dbus-1.0 -I/usr/lib/dbus-1.0/include -I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include
<Mithrandir> so the relative include in the osso header files should Just Work
<bspencer> kwwii, yeah, so the theme would cover standard GtkMenus in addition to Hildon menus
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Some header files have a differnt set of includes.
<bspencer> kwwii, what time do you have now?  7:45pm?
<kwwii> bspencer: 8:45pm
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: where can I find the package you did those changes for?
<bspencer> when can i setup a meeting tom?  I'm trying to coordinate PRC guy and me
* bspencer looks at calendar which shows multiple times
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Didn't I commted it?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: you committed the changes to libosso to bzr, yes.  I believe they are wrong and would like you to show me an application where they are needed. (And where the application isn't just buggy)
<kwwii> bspencer: it's 11:45 there now?
<bspencer> kwwii, how about 4pm tomrrow?  That's 11pm PRC, and 8am for me.
<bspencer> he can chat from home.
<kwwii> bspencer: sure, I can do that
<bspencer> or 3pm maybe instead.  10pm PRC, 7am me.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Maybe I got it wrong but if you want to try, get dates for instance.
<kwwii> whatever is best is fine by me
<bspencer> ok.  you are +9.  So 7am PDT, 4pm Germany, 10pm China
<bspencer> work ok?
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: from the archive, or from where?
<kwwii> bspencer: sounds great
<kwwii> I'll note that time
<bspencer> thx.
<bspencer> see you here then.   I'm taking off now for a bit
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Sorry, I just can't think very straight right now, I'm just too freaking tired... hold on.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I'm sending you the dates source I tested with UME and works.
<Mithrandir> uh, please just put it on people.ubuntu.com or something, don't send large file via email.
* Mithrandir hates attachments
<kwwii> bspencer: have fun, see you soon
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: hold on
<Mithrandir> rustyl: just to double-check; current mobile-basic-flash git is ok to upload?
<rustyl> Mithrandir, yes, it is ok to upload
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: http://diemicrosoftdie.com/dates.tar.bz2
<Mithrandir> coolie, uploaded.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Got it?
<Mithrandir> sure
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Let me know if I screwd it up.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: seems like it compiles fine both on amd64 and in a lpia chroot
<Mithrandir> with just stock packages
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: You mean with the current libosso?
<Mithrandir> yes, with what's in the archive already
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: That's just great... I don't know what the heck is going on with me...
<agoliveira> Can you run the lpia resulting package on your chroot to see if you get the hildon interface
<agoliveira> Can you also upload dates? If this compiles fine on lpia for you so I can give you claws as well.
<Mithrandir> I can once I'm done with this phone call
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: BTW, do you prefer I send you the full source like this for uploading or what?
<agoliveira> Sure
<Mithrandir> diffs are usually better
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Ok, I'll just push a Claws deppendency first.
<ToddBrandt> HappyCamp: join the moblin channel
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Could you please also add osso-browser-interface that I just pushed to your list of things to upload? Claws deppends on it.
<AndyGraybeal> so this is more for tablets, and not pocketpc's ?
<AndyGraybeal> like an ipaq
<agoliveira> AndyGraybeal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
<agoliveira> AndyGraybeal: In short, yes, at least for now.
<AndyGraybeal> rad, thanks
* agoliveira is thinking about add a bot to show the FAQ link everytime the words pda, n770, n800, ipaq, zaurus and similars are written here...
<AndyGraybeal> :)
<ian_brasil> that will save *a lot* of time and effort
<agoliveira> AndyGraybeal: Sorry, nothing personal, it's just that similar questions pops up here several times a day
<AndyGraybeal> agoliveira, no problem, i understand.... i got excited when i saw #ubuntu-mobile !!
<MTecknology> hi...
<AndyGraybeal> i about pooped my pants :)
<MTecknology> i didn't know this channel existed
<agoliveira> AndyGraybeal: We expect to be there someday...
<MTecknology> is there a version of ubuntu just for tablets pc's or is this more of a support channel?
<AndyGraybeal> agoliveira, that's rad.. i'm using familiar right now :)  along with opie, i enjoy it
<agoliveira> MTecknology: I didn't know that you existed too so we're even ;)
<agoliveira> MTecknology: UME is under heavy development yet. No release was done.
<MTecknology> :(
<MTecknology> much appreciated though
<agoliveira> But you can give it a try: check this out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<MTecknology> i can't - for the love of god - get my tablet to work
<MTecknology> my stylus and screen rotation and such
<agoliveira> MTecknology: Check the docs. You can at least run it in a chroot
<agoliveira> So you can at least take a look.
<MTecknology> i'm willing to shrink my ubuntu partition and migrate to it when it is released
<agoliveira> MTecknology: But as I said, it's under heavy dev. so don't blame us if it just don't work for you
<MTecknology> i'm only using 3.2 of 40G for ubuntu now
<MTecknology> vista is, of course, taking up plenty of its 40G
<agoliveira> MTecknology: Be aware that this is not a desktop replacement. It's really meant to things like webpads.
<MTecknology> ?
<agoliveira> Heavy usage of fullscreen, hildon interface, etc
<MTecknology> will this come out to be more of an addon to ubuntu?
<agoliveira> Please, read the faq: " The Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded project aims to derive an operating system for mobile internet devices using Ubuntu as a base."
<ian_brasil> does anyone now what port i need to open in a firewall to do a git clone rsync://moblin.org/repos/tools/moblin-image-creator.git
<ian_brasil> ?
<Sciri> rsync operates on port 873 on tcp and udp...
<ian_brasil> thx
<Sciri> But I don't know your firewall config so I'm not sure if that'll help :)
<ian_brasil> i need to do port forwarding so i will give 873 a shot
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: No idea. But I guess you can do this git clone http://...
<Sciri> Aha...gotcha. And ian, for future reference, most ports are listed in /etc/services:
<Sciri> dyn-003:~/Desktop sean$ grep rsync /etc/services 
<Sciri> rsync           873/udp     # rsync
<Sciri> rsync           873/tcp     # rsync
<ian_brasil> excellent
<MTecknology> agoliveira, so if you're going to use the same repos and everything, I should just be able to install the the packages on top of gusty when everything is said and done, right?
<MTecknology> or the other way around?
<agoliveira> MTecknology: Install the packages, yes but it's a different arch. The idea is the other way around, you can install many (maybe all) gutsy packages on UME 
<MTecknology> sounds excellent
<MTecknology> so when it's all ready for ppl to use in a production environment i could install it to a new partition, install gusty packages, move over my data, expand the partition... then know everything will work w/o any risk
<MTecknology> how hard would it be for a novice like me to help develop this?
<agoliveira> MTecknology: Well, it deppends on what you want to do. You can hang around this channel, sing in on ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com and jump in when you feel you can be of assistence.
<MTecknology> I mean like... http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
<agoliveira> MTecknology: That's a good general start
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: it tries to start, but segfaults.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you use the latest sapwood? IIRC there was this problem.
<Mithrandir> hah, there it worked
<Mithrandir> it wasn't too happy about being started through emacs (don't ask)
<Mithrandir> http://err.no/tmp/screenshot-ume-lpia-3.png
<Mithrandir> \o/
<Mithrandir> icons are busted, but otherwise it looks good
<agoliveira> The icons problem is known.
<agoliveira> But that's the way it should look.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Are you going to stay around a bit after the meeting?
<Mithrandir> no, it's close to 23:00 here now, so I'm going to sleep soonish
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I'll send you claws and maybe notes later. Could you please take care of them tomorrow?
<Mithrandir> please just send me URLs and yes, I'll poke them tomorrow then
<agoliveira> No problem. Thanks.
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-17
<kwwii> night all
<bicchi> I am having a hard time creating a bootable usb flash installation. can anyone help?
<bicchi> i am trying to install the regular ubuntu desktop into my machine and the machine can boot from usb.
<HappyCamp> Does anyone know if the gutsy archive has any dependency issues?
<HappyCamp> I'm getting this:
<HappyCamp> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<HappyCamp>   dpkg: Breaks: aptitude (< 0.4.6.1-1ubuntu2) but 0.4.6.1-1ubuntu1 is to be
<HappyCamp> installed
<HappyCamp> Just wondering if this is a known issue or we got issues on our side.
<agoliveira> HappyCamp: THis should not happen but it's possible that dependencies break from time to time at this stage.
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, Okay.  We are seeing some dependency issues when doing an apt-get install using image-creator
<HappyCamp> agoliveira, robr, rob_ https://www.moblin.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=68
<miles_> hi
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: good morning
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: have you pushed your dates patch upstream yet?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Not yet I wanted to know if they are working ok first but I can do it right now if you feel is important to do it fast.
<Mithrandir> it would be good to do it now for two reasons: it gives them more time to tell us if they feel the patch is wrong, and secondly it makes it more likely they'll merge it when they get it, since they likely won't have gone very far, development-wise from what the patch is based on.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: however, I didn't see why you commented out a block around the "TODO: multiple calendar UI"; can you tell me why?
<agoliveira> No problem, I'll see that.
<Mithrandir> and I can't download your claws upload, so can you put it on rookery or another machine that's actually working? :-)
<agoliveira> About the comment, I forgot to explain: this is supoort for multiple simultaneous calendars and it does not work in maemo as it works fullscreen.
<agoliveira> Really? I tested yerterday...
<agoliveira> Let me see...
<agoliveira> Crap. It's really down today.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I've never used our internal machines like rookery, I'll have to set it up. Hold on, please.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: BTW, have you poked someone (doko?) about the missing parts on lpia?
<Mithrandir> no, I've fixed them myself.
<agoliveira> Cool.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: http://adilson.net/claws-mail_2.10.0-2.tar.gz
<agoliveira> http://adilson.net/claws-mail_2.10.0-2.dsc
<Mithrandir> have you been in touch with upstream about this too?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I sent an email yesterday but didn't get answer yet.
<Mithrandir> ok
<doko> agoliveira: which missing parts?
<agoliveira> doko: Don't worry, Mithrandir took care of it but it was a few hildon dependencies missing.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: BTW, I'll apreciate if you tell me a better way to do what I did on debian/rules. It works but don't feel right.
<doko> well, thats mobil stuff, not bootstrap stuff.
<agoliveira> doko: True.
<kwwii_> so how is the keyboard defined and themed?
<Mithrandir> it's part of the matchbox-keyboard source.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: for claws?
<agoliveira> yes
<agoliveira> ok, going to tasks now...
* agoliveira thinks the Pimlico names can be confusing...
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: you never tried to build this in a clean chroot, did you? :-)
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I was using lpia chroot but in this case not really.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Too buggy?
<Mithrandir> missing build-dep on libhildon-1-dev, at least
<agoliveira> Ouch...
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Conf call in 4?
<Mithrandir> yup
<amitk_> Mithrandir: just received the crown beach
<Mithrandir> amitk_: yay you.
<bicchi> I am having a hard time creating a usb bootable image. I have downloaded the ubuntu iso, now what?
<bicchi> i have a 1 gb flash drive 
<agoliveira> bicchi: The UME image is already made to run from a USB drive
<bicchi> agoliveira: where do i get this image?
<agoliveira> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/ but you may want to try also the image-builder
<bicchi> agoliveira: i forgot to mention that i am trying to install the regular desktop edition. 
<agoliveira> bicchi: So you better ask in another channel. This one is for UME.
<bicchi> ok
<kwwii> I think that I will try image-builder later tonight
<kwwii> as the package depency problems do not appear to be fixing themselves
<bicchi> image-builder builds any type of bootable image. is that what is for?
<agoliveira> bicchi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/CreatingAnImageForUMEDevice
<Mithrandir> kwwii: hmm?  If you run apt-get update, it should work fine now.
<kwwii> Mithrandir: hehe, I have been doing that every hour since last night and now it works ;-)
<kwwii> well, I did sleep and take time off for lunch ;-)
<kwwii> so looking at the source of the keyboard, I see that I can define my own layout (yeah!)
<kwwii> I guess that the themeing comes directly from hildon?
<Mithrandir> I think it's drawn directly by matchbox-keyboard.
<Mithrandir> there's been some talk from the openmoko people about adding a proper theme engine, but unsure where that's going.
<kwwii> ouch, that makes things a bit more interesting ;-)
<bicchi> agoliveira: If I am running a desktop with amd64, can i build an image for the samsung q1 which is i386 using the image-creator tool?
<agoliveira> bicchi: Yes, it uses chroots.
<kwwii> Mithrandir: so to start UME in a window, I become the ume user in my chroot and then run sudo DISPLAY=:0 xinit /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc -- /usr/bin/Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 1024x600x32 96 -ac
<kwwii> ?
<Mithrandir> not sudo
<Mithrandir> but otherwise looks right.
<kwwii> hrm, I wonder what I am doing wrong :-)
<Mithrandir> xhost +SI:localuser:ume ?
<kwwii> yes...but is that supposed to be in my chroot or something?
<kwwii> it keeps complaining that I have not set the DISPLAY (Xephyr cannot open host display. Is DISPLAY set?)
<kwwii> xinit:  Connection refused (errno 111):  unable to connect to X server
<kwwii> xinit:  No such process (errno 3):  Server error.
<Mithrandir> no, in your host system
<Mithrandir> hm, if you call mount, does it list /tmp as bind-mounted?
<kwwii>  ... /tmp on /home/chroots/gutsy-mobile-lpia type none (rw,bind)
<Mithrandir> if you do ls -l /tmp in the chroot, does it list .X0-lock ?
<kwwii> (gutsy-mobile-lpia)root@clive:~# ls -l /tmp
<kwwii> total 0
<Mithrandir> ls -la
<Mithrandir> (sorry)
<kwwii> hehe, I could have thought too ;-)
<kwwii> (gutsy-mobile-lpia)root@clive:~# ls -la /tmp
<kwwii> total 20
<kwwii> drwxrwxrwt  4 root root 4096 Aug 17 14:02 .
<kwwii> drwxrwxrwt 14 root root 4096 Aug 17 13:47 ..
<kwwii> drwxrwxrwt  2 root root 4096 Aug 16 20:40 .ICE-unix
<kwwii> drwxrwxrwt  2 root root 4096 Aug 16 20:40 .X11-unix
<kwwii> -r--r--r--  1 ume  ume    11 Aug 17 14:02 .X2-lock
<Mithrandir> ok, so it's not bind-mounted then
<Mithrandir> do sudo umount /home/chroots/gutsy-mobile-lpia ; sudo mount --bind /tmp /home/chroots/gutsy-mobile-lpia/tmp
<Mithrandir> (in the host system) and try again
<kwwii> it actually popped up a window for a second!
<kwwii> error opening security policy file /etc/X11/xserver/SecurityPolicy
<kwwii> and it complains about a bunch of missing fonts
<Mithrandir> try doing apt-get install dbus-x11 gtk2-engines-sapwood hildon-control-panel hildon-desktop hildon-theme-mobile-basic language-pack-en marquee-plugins matchbox-window-manager mobile-basic-flash sdk-default-icons
<Mithrandir> and see if that helps
<kwwii> mobile-basic-flash: Depends: libxul0d but it is not installable
<Mithrandir> ignore that one, then
<kwwii> hrm, when I start it is complains about "Could not create server lock file: /tmp/.X2-lock"
<kwwii> I think I accidentaly tried to start it as root
<Mithrandir> change the :2 to :3
<kwwii> Xephyr: requested screen depth not supported, setting to match hosts.
<kwwii> reducing the depth to 16 gets rid of that error
<kwwii> but it still only flashes for a second and is gone
<Mithrandir> hm
<Mithrandir> as root in the chroot, try starting dbus.
<Mithrandir> so, be root in the chroot and do /etc/init.d/dbus start
<kwwii>  * system message bus already started; not starting.
<kwwii> I stopped it and startedit again
<kwwii> http://pastebin.ca/661061 is the whole info when it dies
<Mithrandir> does ~ume/.xsession-errors contain anything useful?
<kwwii> lol, sounds grim, that file....
<kwwii> Xsession: X session started for ume at Fri Aug 17 14:17:15 UTC 2007
<kwwii> Xsession: unable to start X session --- no "/home/ume/.xsession" file, no
<kwwii> "/home/ume/.Xsession" file, no session managers, no window managers, and no
<kwwii> terminal emulators found; aborting.
<Mithrandir> install ume-config-samsung-q1-ultra
<mdz> Mithrandir: ~ume?  all my installs run the X session as root and have no non-system users
<Mithrandir> mdz: I've asked kwwii to add a non-root user.
<mdz> ah
<Mithrandir> I prefer to not do stuff as root unless I have to; UME is going to do the same too once I find the time to fix that bug.
<Mithrandir> but I think I'll call it a week now.
* agoliveira is going to lunch and after try to squeeze himself in a schedule for the sprint...
<kwwii> w00t
<kwwii> now it works
<Mithrandir> \o/
<Mithrandir> great
<kwwii> the little of it that is there, at least
<kwwii> thanks man, appreciate the time it took you to help me ;-)
<kwwii> I guess that once libxul builds I can install the flash stuff too
<Mithrandir> it's not completely there yet, but having to walk you through it makes it easier for me to actually see which bits are hard and which could easily be automated
<kwwii> I guess one has to install programs individually now that the basic desktop is running?
<Mithrandir> yes.
<Mithrandir> soonish, we'll have ubuntu-mobile pulling in the right set of packages, but it's been lagging since lots of stuff haven't been built on lpia
<kwwii> cool, I'll play around with this a bit. thanks again for the help
<kwwii> going to pick up my son's new bicycle soon (he is dancing around outside my office)
<amitk_> ever see this error? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34061/
<bspencer> kwwii: ping
<bspencer> kwwii: ok...so I could say I mixed up the time zones and thought 8am was your 4pm... but actually I just slept in.  horaceli is here when you get back to chat a bit about theme.
<horaceli> kwwii, hello. I am here if you are back. we could talk about theme stuff
<kyleN> horaceli, kwwii: I am interested in talking about theme stuff
<kyleN> for example, I can see that gtkrc and matchbox themes are used
<bspencer> kyleN: cool
<kyleN> I also notice that some icon theme directories are present, but the implementation doesn't seem complete
<kyleN> for example, I don't think (could be wrong) the current icon theme is ever set
<kyleN> and the three icon theme dirs present don't seem to implement the fallback architecture
<kyleN> so my question overall is: how complete is the current theme implementation?
<bspencer> if it is set, it is inadvertent.  I created the hildon-theme-mobile-basic theme from plankton from 0 knowledge of how themes work.  I never set the icon theme.
<kyleN> ok
<kyleN> i don't know much about themeing, but I am trying to learn 
<bspencer> and I didn't create it using the hildon tools because I'm not an artist.  So I just changed a few files to get the current UI look (black toolbar, etc).
<bspencer> hopefully kwwii  can help us there.
<kyleN> yes, I traced many of the current files displayed back to where they reside in the file system
<kyleN> by changing them, trial and error mostly
<bspencer> ha, me too.  I would also change them to bright pink to see if they were used somewhere I didn't know about
<kyleN> I made a list if you're interested
<bspencer> maybe we could use a launchpad wiki to track some of this
<kyleN> great minds think alike ;)
<kyleN> I notice there seem to be lots and lots of image files that are not used... true?
<bspencer> yes
<bspencer> about 400 of them
<kyleN> yes...
<bspencer> only the "mb_" ones are the ones I made
<kyleN> that's what I guessed.
<bspencer> but the menu ones get used, I didn't change those
<kyleN> right, for example the calculator app in extras has its icon in /usr/share/icons/gnome/..
<bspencer> btw, nice to meet you kyleN.  Have we met before?
<kyleN> I don't think so. nice to meet you. I just joined the irc this week
<bspencer> have you looked at the hildon slicer tools?
<kyleN> no... what are they?
<bspencer> the basic idea is to come up with one large png file and it will slice it up into the 500+ small theme files
<kyleN> what is the advantage of this as opposed to having lots of files?
<bspencer> I guess easier to keep everything together.  One file to manage
<horaceli> in this case, deverloper who is creating theme don't need to care about the picture name
<kyleN> ok.  is this just a plan at this point or is it implemented?
<bspencer> but you also have to have a layout file that details the coordinates of each of the embeded pictures inside the large png
<bspencer> it is implemented
<horaceli> since the small theme files has unique names for hildon-desktop or other widgets to recognize
<bspencer> but the mobile-baisc theme doesn't have a large file yet.  I didn't go back and edit the big plankton png file, I just tweaked the end-result files in the "images" folder
<kyleN> what aspects of themeing doees this address, icons and other images, such as backgrounds?
<bspencer> icons are a mixed bag and I don't totally know which ones are supposed to be part of the theme and which are not
<bspencer> generally the icons go in the icons folders you were talking about, not in the big png file that gets sliced
<kyleN> I see. can there be two files that get sliced, in case one needs it?
<bspencer> not now.  the tool just takes in a single file iirc
<kyleN> is the slicing a run time thing? or is it sliced at build time resulting in lots of files?
<bspencer> no
<bspencer> build time.   A one-time activity when the png changes.
<bspencer> At runtime the theme is like you see in the /usr/share/theme folders
<kyleN> ok, so it slices the file up using the config file to set the resulting file names?\
<bspencer> horaceli: how do the file names get assigned?
<kyleN> I wonder if it would be possible to strip all the unused image files.  For example many that start with "qgn"
<bspencer> horaceli_:   how's the network connection going?
<ian_brasil> kyleN: do you have this list available somewhere?
<horaceli_> not good.
<bspencer> kyleN:  yeah, I tried that many (many) times
<kyleN> Hi ian. it is in process...
<bspencer> but hildon has some bugs which cause bad things to happen when the theming files aren't there
<kyleN> oh really?
<bspencer> esp with the statusbar
<bspencer> you can do it easily.  Just create a "bk" file in the "images" folder and "mv qgn* bk"
<bspencer>  /usr/share/theme/mobile-basic/images
<bspencer> then restart X
<bspencer> (I haven't done this for months.)
<kyleN> yes. I was wondering if they can/should be deleted permanently
<bspencer> I wanted to quickly reduce the theme to only the pictures that were used
<ian_brasil> kyleN: cool , can't wait :)
<kyleN> yes, that is a laudable goal!
<bspencer> because we don't yet have all of the elements that Nokia has
<kyleN> so what is the obstacle to removing them? 
<bspencer> but there were a few things like menus that I didn't make "mb_" replacements for.  So the menus will get lost.  You'll have to disocver which files belog to the menus and other pieces
<bspencer> kyleN: the right way is to understand which theme files the hildon code uses
<kyleN> I did figure out which files form the border to application menus and submenus
<bspencer> and that isn't obvious to me
<bspencer> kyleN:  great information
<kyleN> form, I meant, not from
<bspencer> that is a good step
<kyleN> so, to be a complete idiot, I would ask the following:
<bspencer> we should go through the hildon-desktop code and understand what graphics are being called for
<kyleN> ok, so it's the hildon-desktop source code?
<bspencer> then document how each application should use themes, icons, etc.  That would be a big help and get everyone on the same page
<kyleN> I suppose I can download that and look at it
<bspencer> yes
<bspencer> hildon-desktop is the pkg that sets up the menus, borders, panels, etc.
<horaceli_> bspencer, I guess not the only the hildon desktop package, but also the hildon library
<bspencer> horaceli:  what is this pkg called?
<kyleN> what's the purpose of hildon library?
<bspencer> hildon library is whta applications use
<bspencer> hildon-desktop is the window management code, panels, plugins, home screen
<kyleN> ok
<horaceli_> right, application also has hildon menu with a frame
<horaceli_> is that right?
<kyleN> so the application's menu is from hildon library, we are supposing...
<horaceli_> we could figure it out by reading gtkrc and gtkrc.maemo-af-desktop file in /usr/share/theme/mobilebasic/gtkrc
<kyleN> and the rest from hildon-desktop
<bspencer> horaceli:  right. do you know if that is where the menu is drawn though?
<horaceli_> it should be defined in those two files
<bspencer> yeah.  but those aren't small :)
<kyleN> those gtkrc files specify image files, but not the source code package... right?
<horaceli_> right.
<bspencer> but some file in the theme folder has the ability to map a class to a particular layout or image
<kyleN> bspencer, right
<bspencer> maybe it is in the matchbox/theme.xml file.  I can't recall and don't have my device handy
<kyleN> gtkrc files map styles to classes and class instances
<kyleN> matchbox theme.xml describes window decoration, but I have question about this...
<kyleN> the question is that matchbox has four kinds of windows....
<kyleN> main, dialog, menu and toolbar (I think)
<kyleN> do hildon apps run in a main matchbox window?
<kyleN> the matchbox theme file specifies theme stuff for "dialog" window types
<horaceli_> https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-theme-plankton/template/template.png
<kyleN> and for "message" window types
<kyleN> horaceli, is that the nokia slicer png?
<horaceli_> we could refer to this picture, it has small pictures combine and list the widget name it belongs to
<horaceli_> yes
<horaceli_> I think we could refer to that format
<horaceli_> and slice our theme up by hildon-theme-tools like maemo does.
<horaceli_> since hildon-theme-tools have already in UME
<kyleN> ume had hildon-theme-tools?
<kyleN> haS
<kyleN> this is an interesting idea.
<horaceli_> yes
<kyleN> I think it may in fact make developing the visual aspects of a theme more easily manageable
<horaceli_> I checked the archive, it is already there
<kyleN> bspencer, you said you did this for the current them, right?
<horaceli_> and also there is a hildon-theme-layout package, which inlcudes a layout config file for hildon-theme-tools to slice up the template.png above
<horaceli_> the layout config file mainly defines each small picture's position and size
<bspencer> there is no large template.png file for the current mobile-basic theme unfortunately
<kyleN> does the config file also specify each resulting files name/location?
<horaceli_> bob used the sliced up theme package and added mobile basic pictures
<horaceli_> yes
<horaceli_> kyleN
<horaceli_> with that, art designer will not care about the picture name
<kyleN> so, my question is this: why is it easier to maintain a config file, instead of just having separate images? seems like the config file would be a lot of work.
<horaceli_> and only focused on the art work
<kyleN> true
<kyleN> who creates the config file?
<horaceli_> we could do that
<horaceli_> I could do that
<kyleN> good answer ;)
<horaceli_> if we are not using default hildon-theme-layout.hehe
<bspencer> we need a full time theme master
<kyleN> probably do, at that
<bspencer> horaceli_: I guess we need to go through the template and identify what we need
<kyleN> well, I am thinking about next steps
<horaceli_> bspencer, I agree
<horaceli_> and remove those that we don't need
<horaceli_> like clock, as I know. :-)?
<kyleN> but the nokia template is not necessarily the same as what the UME needs, is it?
<horaceli_> and volume bar?w
<kyleN> why not start with what we know UME needs
<bspencer> hm, how do we know what to put in the theme?  clock is a good example.  what apps get theme pieces and what don't?
<kyleN> I made a list of what I found
<kyleN> one question I have is about themeing apps... is it possible?
<bspencer> I guess the apps Nokia "themed" are those embeded in the homescreen or panels
<kyleN> in other words UME has a list of images - fine they can be themed. apps add arbitrary new images... how do they get added to UME to be themable?
<bspencer> and other applications use the theme window decorations, buttons, etc., but no other app-specific grahpics are in the theme.
<bspencer> kyleN:  I don't think so
<kyleN> right, app specific images are not themable
<bspencer> unless the app has "skin" support
<bspencer> but that is mangaed per app
<kyleN> aha, a new wrinkle!
<kyleN> one possible next step is to take my list of known desktop images and create the png and config file to make it themeable
<horaceli_> kyleN,
<kyleN> I am not certain whether gtk images fit into this... do they? (button backgrounds etc.)
<horaceli_> yes. when the png file is ready, I could create the layout config file to slice it up
<horaceli_> maybe backgrounds  are seperate ones.
<kyleN> why do they have to be?
* bspencer looks at the template.png again...
<horaceli_> good question. :-)
<horaceli_> in hildon-theme-plankton, they seperate them
<kyleN> question: does the slicer tool let you put the resulting images wherever you want?
<horaceli_> but I think it could also be OK to combine backgrounds into template.png
<kyleN> if so, it exapnds the reach of theming to include gtk...
<horaceli_> the slicer tool only slice the whole png into small pictures. put pictures to somewhere is done by Makefile, I think
<bspencer> hm.. by backgrounds you mean panel backgrounds?
<kyleN> that's fine. makefile works
<bspencer> not the desktop background
<kyleN> no, I was thinking GTK widget backgrounds and other widget images
<horaceli_> oh, I misunderstand it. :-P
<bspencer> ok.  it seems those are in the template.png 
<kyleN> buttons, menus, combo boxes
<horaceli_> yes, bob is right
<bspencer> all of these go into the "images" folder too, I think.
<bspencer> mm, kyleN -- how does GTK get its theme images... that is a good question
<kyleN> yes. in fact I see in the template.png images relating to hildon-specific wdigets, like the contorl bar
<bspencer> are these just for Hildon widgets?
<horaceli_> it should be defined in gtkrc
<kyleN> those are the hildonized gtk widgets
<kyleN> yes, gtk has defaults, which are overridden by gtkrc, I think
<kyleN> horaceli, how would you figure out the exact locations of images in the png for slicer?
<horaceli_> kyleN, is it possible to combine what you have already known of ume needed images into a whole png?
<kyleN> yes it is
<horaceli_> kyleN, I think I could get the position and size by some picture viewer? :-)
<kyleN> ok.
<kyleN> if we did this, does this go into the source? I mean, would you check in changes and such?
<horaceli_> I always do that, by put mouse on the position and then read the x, y coordinate
<horaceli_> yes
<horaceli_> I could create the layout config file based the information from the whole png file.
<kyleN> do you think we can also remove all the unnecessary images from ume? there seem to be lots and lots
<horaceli_> and then call hildon-theme-tools to slice it up
<bspencer> we could look at the hildon plankton package and model it.
<kyleN> bspencer said there are bugs when some images that are not used are removed... what can we do about this?
<bspencer> we can remove what we don't think we need too.
<horaceli_> that could be possible, it may need your help to tune the whole png file. if we found some picture is mandatory.
<bspencer> no, there are bugs when some images that are used are removed  :)
<kyleN> oh, I misunderstood! ;)
<bspencer> if you think you've got /the/ list of images, just remove the others in the current "images" folder and see if everything looks the same
<kyleN> how can we test removing all unnecessary images? can I just delete them from my target and try to run?
<kyleN> ok, but there are also lots in /usr/share/icons
<horaceli_> yes, so maybe you could reuse some part in template.png. :-)
<kyleN> and what is the purposed of /usr/share/pixmaps ? anyone know?
<kyleN> i guess I am hoping to pare out all the unnecessary stuff and simply down to what's really needed in a way that's easily manageable
<kyleN> simplify
<horaceli_> I thought /usr/share/icons are for icon theme, and /usr/share/pixmaps are for some miscellaneous icons. 
<horaceli_> but I am not quite sure
<bspencer> brb
<kyleN> yes, I believe icons is for icon themes, but I don't think the framework really uses/supports that yet
<kyleN> i notice that gutsy has a gconf key named icon_theme=Human but not my ume target
<kyleN> do we need "miscellaneous" icons though? can't they all be: true themable icons, UME themed images, or app-specific, non-themable? 
<kyleN> that's three categories: themed icons, themed desktop images, and app-specific images
<horaceli_> kyleN, currently we used to put status bar plugin icons in /usr/share/pixmaps, like battery indicator
<horaceli_> but maybe it could be packed as an icon theme.
<kyleN> yes, and I notice the top left image for the main menu is in there too.
<horaceli_> right.
<kyleN> if it is a toobar image, it seems like an icon, so maybe we should figure out how to set the icon theme in UME and see if it works
<kyleN> I did some experimenting with icon themes.
<kyleN> I wrote a simple python app and added it to the Extras menu
<kyleN> its desktop file names its icon
<kyleN> the icon would appear in the menu when I put it in any of the three present icon theme directories
<kyleN> usr/share/icons/gnome .... /usre/share/icons/hildon or /usr/share/icons/hicolor
<kyleN> so I think we don't set the icon theme and it looks EVERYWHERE in icons
<kyleN> but it should only look in the current icon theme and any fallback icon themes the current theme specifices (I think)
<kyleN> does this ring true or am I walking the plank here ;)
<bspencer> I nominate you as icon master
<kyleN> crap
<kyleN> ;)
<bspencer> heh
<kyleN> so here's a question; do we think UME supports icon themes, if we can figure out how to turn it on?
<kyleN> icon themes are a freedesktop standard that is used in gnome desktop
<kyleN> does that mean we have it?
<bspencer> should it?
<bspencer> no idea
<cathy_ubuntu> bspencer, are you around?
<kyleN> I guess it does, since my icon is found and displayed, but I guess we simply don't ever specifiy the current icon theme or set up the hierarchy
<bspencer> cathy_ubuntu: hello.  
<kyleN> if anyone can tell me how to set the icon theme, I'd be grateful!
<cathy_ubuntu> We need some icon pictures for mobile player plugins, can you talk with Jeremy?
<kyleN> bspencer, horaceli_, thanks for all this. I'll be working on this and will be on irc next week to follow up with stuff.
<kyleN> In general, I think I'd like to propose the following:
<kyleN> 1) implement icon themes
<kyleN> 2) don't use /usr/share/pixmaps for miscellaneous, but make all images and icons themeable
<horaceli> hi, kyleN. u still there?
<kyleN> 3) make the master ume png
<kyleN> yes
<horaceli> i lost connection
<kyleN> ok
<horaceli> anything I missed?
<horaceli> I saw the task 3). :-)
<kyleN> yes... a little
<bspencer> kyleN, what's your email addr?
<horaceli> when will it be available?
<kyleN> kyle@pepper.com
<bspencer> thx.
<kyleN> I'd like to see if we can agree on a plan of action
<kyleN> can I make a proposal of the things we might discuss and possibly do?
<kyleN> maybe I can email bspencer and horaceli_?
<horaceli> sure. any proposal is welcome
<horaceli> my email is horace.li@intel.com, fyi
<kyleN> ok. bspencer, your email?
<horaceli> spencer.bob@intel.com
<kyleN> I'll send something simple out today to you two
<horaceli> bob.spencer@intel.com
<horaceli> :-). the latter is the corrent one
<horaceli> thanks, kyleN
<kyleN> ok, I have to eat lunch. Thanks to you two.
<horaceli> :-). see ya
<Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Are you on? Tracking info claims your Menlow was delivered.  Is that right?
<agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Tollef left already but I heard that Amit's board was delivered.
<Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: I can't keep track of what time it is where.  The tracking info says one of the sytems is in Helsinki still.
<agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Yes, that's Amit's.
<agoliveira> Amit lives in Helsinki, Tollef in Norway (I don't recall the city).
<Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: Now I understand.  Thanks.
<Ra__> Hello
<kwwii> re
<kwwii> reading the log now
<kwwii> bspencer: I tweaked the current "big png" to make it black, guess that would be the best place to start
<kwwii> bspencer: I also started to edit the svg source so that it looks black in the way we want it
<kwwii> bspencer: but just making the pics black is a long way from making the whole thing correct - we will have to edit the gtkrc to use the right colors as well
<agoliveira> Anyone from Pepper around?
<Sciri> agoliveira: What's up? Questions for Pepper?
<agoliveira> Sciri: I'll be with you shortly.
<Sciri> agoliveira: No worries...
<agoliveira> Sciri: Are you receiving my private message?
<Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: no, I still haven't received my menlow system.  I'll phone DHL on monday and ask where it's at and what's happening.
<agoliveira> Stardict builds fine on i386 and lpia. Yay!
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: with hildon UI?
<agoliveira> Yep.
<Mithrandir> yay
<agoliveira> I just finished
<agoliveira> I had to update to version 3.0.0 (the repo has 2.4.8 only)
<agoliveira> and disable festival support but it looks fine.
<agoliveira> A warning, you will probably puke over the debian files but that's what I could do for now so be kind, I promisse to polish it later :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-18
<kwwii> is there decent documentation on getting a "normal system" (ie with apps, etc) running with the lpia stuff?
<kwwii> hard to know what to install after you get the basics running
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
<Jon123569> anyone working on ubuntu mobile for the n800?
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-08-19
<Altiric> Anyone happen to be around?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-08-11
<persia> StevenK: Apropos to the discussion in -devel, there was some talk last night (involving Whoopie and slytherin) about advantages of updating to the 4.x stack for BlueZ.  Do you have an opinion on that?
<StevenK> persia: Yes. 4.x is not stable, and FF is very close. :-)
<persia> StevenK: That was my feeling.  I'm glad to hear it confirmed.
<futhar> this question may sound stipid :) but is it posible to install the ubuntu mobile on a smart phone?
<persia> futhar: Only if the smart phone is implemented wth Ubuntu Mobile compatible hardware.  As far as I know, only the Sharp D4 meets that criteria now, and I suspect that significant post-installation customisation is required for an ideal arrangement.
<persia> That said, I wouldn't install Ubuntu Mobile on something I intended to use as a phone, as I don't believe the applications to handle telephony are currently mature enough (most apps seem to concentrate on VoIP, rather than on VoGSM or the like)
<futhar> the phone i want to install ubuntu mobile is lilbit old so it looks like the phone is un ubuntu compatible :) but i can always try :D
<futhar> is there a list of the compatible smart phones
<persia> There isn't.  I keep meaning to add a testing section to the wiki, but have so far failed to do so.
<persia> Basically, you need one with an lpia processor (Intel A100, A110, or Atom).
<persia> Beyond that the requirements are usually met (or at least I've not yet seen such a device with reported specs that couldn't run Ubuntu Moblie, albeit perhaps with some post-install tweaking)
<futhar> hmmmmmm
<futhar> my phone uses 	Symbian OS v7.0, UIQ v2.0 UI but i dont know what kind of processor it has 
<persia> futhar: Which phone?
 * persia suspects ARM, but may be mistaken
<futhar> p900
<futhar> but i have a nokia 9300 too
<suihkulokki> first you need to get linux kernel booted on it, then you can start thinking about distributions such ubuntu..
<futhar> you are right 
<persia> futhar: P900 is ARM9@156MHz (not sure which flavour), and 9300 is OMAP 1510 @ 150 MHZ.  Even if you got a kernel booting, I'd recommend something more lightweight for those devices.
<futhar> such as?
<persia> futhar: I ran a QTopia environment on a 200MHz XScale for a while, but that was years ago, so I'm not sure that there isn't something better for smaller/older devices now (and no, I don't have any good suggestions).
<futhar> persia: sorry just this last stupid question: the max memory storage of the phone is software or hardware limit?
<persia> futhar: Both.  For most phones currently available, it's more likely to be HW, as most of the software stacks will allow 4G, but hardware rarely allows more than 1 or 2.
<ian_brasil> hey...if i would like to change the home area to flash or clutter what is the best way to do this?
<pyronik> is there any work in terms of voice command ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-08-12
<persia> pyronik: Not specific to Ubuntu Mobile, but certainly (to some degree) within linux itself.  You may need to experiment a bit to get it to work.
<DNi2> is there a prevision of the next release ? 
<DNi2> will it be possible to dual-boot with it ?
<persia> Hey!
<persia> Is this about issues with an Eee?
<elkbuntu> persia, i found -eeepc
<persia> elkbuntu: Likely better, as -mobile on the Eee is something nobody ever comes back to report success/failure about.
<isaac> hi fellows
<isaac> so there exists a toolchain to build for lpia from i386?
<isaac> I mean packaged in a PPA or something
<sn9> isaac: debootstrap
<isaac> oh, so I can debootstrap a lpia system on a i386?
<ian_brasil> isaac: yes..use moblin image creator
<isaac> yeah, ok
<isaac> thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-08-13
 * denny reads FAQ, wanders off taking his N810 with him
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-08-14
<lool> asac: Hey, would you have a minute to discuss my email (merge of langpacks and xulrunner to intrepid)?
 * lool goes afk for 2 minutes
<asac> lool: sure. lets talk in a few
<lool> asac: I'm here
<lool> asac: Shall we have a phone call?
<lool> Or I'm happy to discuss it here, whatever you think is best
<asac> lool: lets try here ;)
<asac> if we need to be more verbose we can go for call
<asac> lool: let me open the mail ;)
<lool> Ok
<asac> l
<asac> lool: ok. gconf backend:
<asac> the gconf code needs to be moved to a different place in the xulrunner tree
<lool> (I think that's the only delta between ubuntu-mobile ppa's xulrunner and hardy's/intrepid's)
<asac> so it can be build as a dynamic module
<asac> lool: yes. at least its the only big chunk that prevents me from putting it into the "main" xul
<lool> Ok; is this something complex or something I'd manage to do without ever having looked at this?  :-)
<lool> I can try in all cases
<asac> lool: @langpacks: the midbrowser template needs to be imported into the distro translations thing
<lool> So it would mean moving files, updating build system, then updating packaging
<asac> and then we need to enable midbrowser in the po2xpi processor
<asac> lool: basically yes.
<asac> there are a few more details. but in general it should be that "easy"
<lool> Hmm concerning the templates, it looks midbrowser is in main and so what needs to be done is probably converting the xpis to po for import, correct?
<asac> lool: not sure. let me check something
<lool> po2xpi: that's the thing running after langpack export which was written by davidm and you, and it needs to be told to also act on midbrowsers translations?
<asac> lool: right. let me check something. then i will go into details ;)
 * asac gets midbrowser packaging source
<asac> oh dear. whats going on with my connection ;) ... sloooow
<lool> My adsl is now too slow to display tv   :-(
<lool> (I'm receiving tv over adsl and they increased the quality slightly to the point that the bandwidth I have is insufficient)
<asac> argh
<lool> that said I'm fetching midbrowser at 515 kB/s which is decent
<asac> turn off the tv ;)
<lool> I did!
<lool> I'm mostly watching during the long hours in the night where I'm trying to calm the baby as to allow the mother to sleep  ;-)
<asac> lool: actually i am not really sure what is missing
<asac> for midbrowser
<asac> we produce the template to the place the should get auto imported
<lool> To enable its translations?
<asac> e.g lp-export-xpis/en-US.xpi
<lool> zip lp-export-xpis/en-US.xpi?
<asac> i think jeroen has still the allow midbrowser
<asac> yes
<asac> thats the place where the template gets auto imported from
<lool> Ok, I'll poke Jeroen
<asac> lool: point is that jeroen hasnt even enabled intrepid yet :(
<asac> so there is not really something we can do now
<lool> Argh right I recall reading that
<lool> I thought this was fixed already
<asac> lool: for now midbrowser translations are done in the midbrowser product
<asac> those dont get auto exported to the distribution
<lool> asac: Anyway, this simply mean we have nothing to do on this part
<asac> and more confusingly the export has a different directory layout
<asac> so we cannot relly test the po2xpi
<asac> yes
<lool> When translations become available we will pick up this task again
<lool> Right I agree we can't possibly try to enable it if we don't have the proper sample data
<asac> imo we need to kick jeroen to enable it and then enable midbrowser in po2xpi transformer
<lool> asac: Ok, I think it deserves poking
<lool> asac: Ok, I think I understand what remains to be done; I see no major blocker here which is cool
<lool> asac: Could you give more details on where xulrunner's gconf backend should be moved?
<asac> lool: remember that the xpi support is still moving in launchpad
<asac> most likely we wont need to do it that way anyway, as real xpi support might happen soon
<asac> but i woulndt count on that
<lool> Well last time I heard about it it was almost complete but not enabled
<asac> lool: you have the xulrunner packaging code?
<lool> The one for ubuntu-mobile ppa or for intrepid?
<asac> i think it doesnt matter
<asac> the gconf patch is everywhere ... just not enabled in the official builds
<lool> lp:~ubuntu-mobile/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.hardy is what I have
<lool> bz321315_gconf_backend_for_19.patch?
<lool> Weird, I don't see any occurrence of gconf in debian/rules in this branch
<lool> asac: So it's in extensions/pref/system-pref ATM IIUC
<asac> yes that gconf patch it is
<asac> lool: itst disabled in series
<asac> (just stupidly ;))
<lool> Oh ok
<asac> lool: ok... what needs to be done is to move the system-pref/gconf bits out of libxul
<lool> Ah right I recall you didn't want to include the code path at all in hardy
<lool> You want to move that to midbrowser?
<asac> (currently everything there is statically linked into libxul.so)
<asac> lool: no. i want to have that in xulrunner tree
<lool> Or a new source?
<lool> Ok
<asac> it just should be somewhere else ;)
<asac> lool: so basically the gconf/ subdirectory needs to be moved elsewhere 
<asac> and the changes to toolkit/library/libxul-config.mk toolkit/library/libxul-rules.mk and toolkit/library/nsStaticXULComponents.cpp can be dropped
<asac> lool: one idea to test that is to move the gconf directory to mozilla/extensions/ directory
<asac> e.g. name it system-pref-gconf
<asac> and in the extensions/Makefile.in make:
<asac> DIRS            = $(MOZ_EXTENSIONS) system-pref-gconf
<asac> (hack alert here of course)
<lool> Ok
<lool> asac: I'm trying to understand where libxul begins
<asac> and in the gconf/ makefile.in
<asac> +IS_COMPONENT = 1
<asac> +EXPORT_LIBRARY = 1 FORCE_STATIC_LIB = 1 LIBXUL_LIBRARY = 1
<lool> asac: It's in libxul because of mozilla/toolkit/library/* changes?
<asac> you need to change that to FORCE_STATIC_LIB = 0 and LIBXUL_LIBRARY = 0
<asac> maybe even FORCE_SHARED_LIB
<asac> lool: the extensions/pref directory isnt in MOZ_EXTENSIONS ... it gets hooked in from somewhere in toolikit/library ...yes
<asac> lool: so  if you dont move it out of the extensions/pref it will get built too early
<asac> e.g. at that time you cannot yet build any shared component
<lool> Ok
<asac> simply speaking: you cannot biult any shared component before libxul.so is built
<lool> There are many top level dirs in xulrunner
<asac> yes ;)
<lool> mozilla/extensions/system-pref-gconf alright
<asac> right. try that. and add that dir hackish to DIRS in extensions/Makefile.in
<lool> asac: Ok, I'll try to poke this today and come back to you with more questions almost immediately after starting :-)
<asac> if you dont get it in a day, better dro pit ... there are a bunch of tricky issues that i might not yet forsee. if we have luck it just works with a bit build system tweakage
<lool> Okay
<asac> lool: when would you start trying this?
<lool> asac: I could try over the afternoon
<lool> I have some small stuff to do, but I don't quite know what I'll start with yet
<asac> lool: do other things first. i have to think abit.
<lool> asac: FYI, the patch was updated to apply cleanly in ~ubuntu-mobile/xulrunner/xulrunner-1.9.hardy but not in the current version in the archive
<lool> asac: Hmm I wonder whether I should really be using extensions/pref/system-pref-gconf instead of extensions/system-pref-gconf
<lool> asac: I understand we intend to use autoconfig + system-pref-gconf for midbrowser
<lool> And system-pref + autoconfig for firefox
<lool> So the pref extensions group will be enabled all the time and seems to be the place to drop the new gconf one
<lool> We might need a toggle to disable system-pref when pref is enabled, but that's not too hard
<asac> lool: let me test something
<asac> lool: i think that the complete system-pref directory has to be moved somewhere else
<asac> lool: the extensions/pref goes into libxul
<asac> so if you keep it there it will be built too early as well
<asac> extension/system-pref
<asac> is what we need
<asac> and then make a shared componente out of it
<asac> instead of punching it into libxul
<asac> when that is done we can just put that into a separate package which midbrowser can depend on
<asac> lool: what you can do to develop is to build the package
<asac> abort after patch application
<asac> then remove the system-pref directory from DIRS = 
<asac> and build the application
<asac> the you should be able to run make in the system-pref directory after tweaking the Makefile.in files to do the SHARED component
<asac> probably easiest way to develop that i guess
<lool> asac: I didn't understand what you meant with extensions/system-pref
<lool> You want me to split pref/autoconfig and pref/system-pref in pref/autoconfig and system-pref?
<asac> autoconfig and system-pref are independent
<asac> the idea is to move system-pref directory one level up in directory hierarchy
<lool> s/split/move
<lool> Ok; agreed
<asac> yes
<lool> and then add a system-pref-gconf
<lool> Then we don't really need pref/
<asac> lool: no ... thats not needed anymore then
<asac> my initial idea was just to move the gconf directrory somewhere
<asac> but i think its better to move the complete system-pref directory up
<asac> so sorry for the confusion
<lool> Oh ok
<asac> lool: gconf/ directory provids the service and the sources in system-pref/ are abstract classes that are backend independent
<asac> so all in system-pref should go in a asingla shared lib
<asac> s/service/platform dependent service/
<lool> Ok; I wasn't sure that the system-pref gconf patch wasn't simply switch the default implementation to gconf based; I didn't read it in full
<lool> But it was really adding a backend
<asac> lool: no ... it provides the service implementation
<lool> sure, understood
<asac> while the system-pref provides general logic for system prefs
<lool> yup, got that now
<lool> asac: It might be hard to maintain the patch moving files in the future though  :-/
<asac> lool: the system-pref files havent been changed for ages
<asac> nobody cares about them upstream
<asac> lool: if we have done the move they probably will allow us to commit that change upstream
<asac> however, they surely dont want that patch in libxul.so ... at least not in the way its currently done
<asac> (e.g. the mapped keys are hard coded in source)
<lool> asac: Okay
<lool> Meeting on #ubuntu-meeting in 4 minutes
<davidm> lool I'm here
<davidm> :-)
<lool> Perfect :)
<davidm> Cup a coffee in hand :-)
<BenLauDC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/ReducingBootTimeOfUMEImage
<BenLauDC> Anybody know how is the progress to make udev boot faster?
<shishirmk> hi guys
<shishirmk> i am on ume mc caslin
<shishirmk> i am using khojinsha sh series
<shishirmk> can any1 tell me how to get the mouse pad and touch screen working??
<shishirmk> or even better how to install software on this os??
<persia>  shishirmk: For installation, you want to use the command line, with apt-get or aptitude.  To get the mouse pad and touchscreen working, you want to alter your xorg.conf
<persia> (not the standard one, but the special one), to use /dev/input/mice as the mouse input.
<shishirmk> how do i do it??
<shishirmk> persia: please tell me how to make it functional??
<shishirmk> and can i dual boot it with vista or regular ubuntu
<shishirmk> ?
<persia> shishirmk: exit /etc/X11/xorg.conf-samsungq1ultra (or a similarly named file: I don't have Ubuntu Mobile on my kohjinsha today), and use /dev/input/mice for the configured pointer.
<persia> You can dual boot, but the installer reformats your drive, so this isn't simple, and is undocumented.
<shishirmk>  persia: is it documented somewhere
<shishirmk> or can i use this driver as i used for ubuntu 8.04
<persia> shishirmk: Not to my knowledge.  I tend to reinstall to switch between desktop and mobile.
<shishirmk> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-penmount/+bug/227183https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-penmount/+bug/227183
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227183 in xserver-xorg-input-penmount "no calibration tool" [Undecided,In progress] 
<persia> Yeah, the calibration on the Kohjinsha touchscreen is pretty bad.
<shishirmk> ok then better switch back to ubuntu 8.04 with bad callibration is a good idea i guess??
<persia> Well, depends on what you want.  I switch back and forth on my kohjinsha.
<shishirmk> ok i have decided not to switch can you guys help me configure it??
<shishirmk> please
<shishirmk> atleast tell me where it is documented how to get the touch screen and mouse pad working
<shishirmk> be right back from my desktop
<persia> It's not documented.  As far as I know, I'm the only person who regularly runs Ubuntu Mobile on the Kohjinsha, and getting all three pointers working is a matter of editing xorg.conf.
<shishirm1> persia: kindly tell me now or direct me to a place where i can get my khojinsha working minimally atleast
<persia> shishirml: oneseg just plain doesn't work.  I've not calibrated my touchscreen.  Changing the pointer configuration in xorg.conf lets use use the touchpad, the little joystick, and the touchscreen all at the same time.
<persia> What else do you need?
<shishirm1> what do you mean when you say "oneseg just plain doesn't work."
<persia> I mean there aren't any drivers for it.
<shishirm1> ok
<persia> Everything except the pointers and oneseg worked out of the box for me with Ubuntu Mobile.
<shishirm1> but what about the driver which penmount has given for ubuntu 8.04
<shishirm1> will the same thing work for this??
<persia> oneseg hasn't any drivers that I could find.  touchscreen needs calibration, and pointers need xorg.conf manipulation.
<persia> Might work.  I've not tried it.
<shishirm1> ok atleast tell me how to get the mousepad working
<persia> edit xorg.conf
<shishirm1> ya but wat exactly
<shishirm1> there is only one entry for mouse
<persia> Change the pointer configuration to use /dev/input/mice instead of what it has now.
<persia> Right, but /dev/input/mice multiplexes all the pointers in the kernel, and presents a unified event stream.
<persia> This means that in addition to the touchpad, the touchscreen, and the joystick, you can use a USB mouse with no trouble.
<shishirm1> instead of core pointer i should type in what you said?
<persia> shishirml: You're running Mobile or Desktop?
<shishirm1> hey i got knocked off
<shishirm1> can you please tell me that path?
<shishirm1> path of the mice??
<persia> /dev/input/mice
<shishirm1> i should write it instead of core pointeR??
<persia> Are you running Mobile or Desktop?
<shishirm1> i am running the ume on my khojinsha
<persia> OK.  can you pastebin /etc/X11/xorg.conf-samsungq1ultra (or a similarly named file)?
<shishirm1> i am using khojinsha not samsung ultra
<shishirm1> i cant pastebin bcoz i have internet only on desktop
<shishirm1> as of now
<shishirm1> but i can type the mouse part for you
<shishirm1> select "inputdevice
<shishirm1> identifier "configured mouse"
<shishirm1> driver "mouse"
<shishirm1> option "corepointer"
<persia> See, none of that looks like a device.
<shishirmk> now i have internet on the lkhojinsha
<shishirmk> so i can copy paste it hold on
<persia> No.  I'll dig it up.
<shishirmk> http://pastebin.ca/1171445
<shishirmk> there it is
<persia> That doesn't match what I have for /etc/X11/xorg-samsungq1ultra.conf at all.  From where is that?
<persia> If you're loading that config, all three pointers ought work fine.
<shishirmk> its from my khojinsha sh series
<persia> Is it /etc/X11/xorg-samsungq1ultra.conf?
<ogra> no, thats the generic file that its there alongside (unused)
<shishirmk> no
<persia> Oh, yeah, that file is never used.
<ogra> fix the /etc/X11/xorg-samsungq1ultra.conf
<persia> Even though you have a kohjinsha, you need to look at the samsung xorg
<persia> specifically, you need to change /dev/input/mouse2 to /dev/input/mice
<shishirmk> sorry sorry i copied wrong file
<shishirmk> http://pastebin.ca/1171453
<shishirmk> this is the one
<persia> that one crashed my browser :/
<ogra> Option      "Device" "/dev/input/mouse2" 
<ogra> chnge that to point to /dev/input/mice instead
<shishirmk> done
<shishirmk> ok how to restart the os 
<persia> call sudo reboot from the Terminal
<shishirmk> i got it running great 
<shishirmk> thank you guys
<shishirmk> i will try out the penmount driver and get back
<persia> shishirmk: Please do let me know if it works.  I don't use the touchscreen much, but I wouldn't mind trying.
<shishirmk> ok i will let u know
<shishirmk> mean while is it possible to use my hard disk completely
<shishirmk> it says i got only 4 gb space where as i have a 80 gb hard disk
<persia> It made a small partition.  Add a larger partition if you like.
<shishirmk> ok and how should i do that?
<shishirmk> doest it have gparted or any such tool?
<persia> you can install gparted.  Te menu looks a bit odd, but it should work.
<persia> Which sh6 do you have?
<shishirmk> i dont know the exact model 
<shishirmk> bcoz i have bought a rebranded indian version
<shishirmk> hey how to unzip the penmount .zip file unzip command not working
<persia> Ah.  Probably SH6S or SH6K then.  Some of the newer models have 3G, but I'm not sure the chips they use would work there.
<persia> apt-get install unzip
<shishirmk> hi 
<shishirmk> hey guys how to switch between programs apart from alt tab
<shishirmk> do u hv tht feature or u guys dont have it a all
<persia> shishirmk: alt-tab is the only way
<shishirmk> ok
<shishirmk> how to restart xserver?
<shishirmk> and that driver wont work as all its entries are to the xorg.conf
<shishirmk> if u wanna have a look what it did to xorg i will paste it in pastebin
<shishirmk> wht is the command used to restart xserver
<shishirmk> somebody please answe
<shishirmk> answer
<persia> Ctrl-Alt-Bksp ought work.
<shishirmk> well penmount driver i dont know how much of it is working
<shishirmk> but it makes changes to xorg.conf
<shishirmk> but you guys have made it a unused file
<persia> You'd need to port the changes to the xorg.conf that is being used.
<shishirmk> tried using penmount
<shishirmk> somehow calibration isnt happening reason not known
<shishirmk> i think its using whatever driver is provided
<shishirmk> i mean i think its using penmount driver
<persia> That mostly matches my experience with calibration tools for the Kohjinsha with a MID install.
<persia> Be great if you could figure out how to make it work, but it's not a simple problem.
<shishirmk> guys please port that penmount driver to work on ume 
<shishirmk> if somebody wants to be a mentor i will do it
<shishirmk> i have been wishing to  contribute to ubuntu since long
<shishirmk> i want a mentor i will send my cv if u wanna have a look
<shishirmk> hey no sound on my khojinsha with ume
<persia> I don't get sound if I boot with the headphones attached, but sound works if I boot with them not attached, and attach them later.
<persia> Also, I lose sound on suspend/resume.
<shishirmk> actually where is the shutdown gui in ume??
<persia> There is no shutdown GUI.  It's designed for the pocket computers that one never turns off, just suspends.
<persia> While my pocket computer (Zaurus 3100) isn't compatible with Ubuntu Mobile, I think I've intentionally turned it off about twice since I've had it (several years now), and I turned off the 760 that it replaced only once.
<wirelessdreamer> if i want to try out the interface of ubuntu-mobile in a vm on my laptop, whats the fastest way to do that with how it stands now? i've got moblin image creater installed
<gfcs> boys
<gfcs> One question
<gfcs> ubuntu mdi works in a Nokia N800 ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-08-15
<shishirm1> persia
<shishirm1> sound isnt working on my khojinsha any ideas to get it working
<shishirm1> even a click on the volume menu doesnt yield any responsr
<shishirm1> response
<persia> shishirm1: No idea really.  Like I said, it sometimes works for me, and sometimes doesn't (and I don't really understand why).
<persia> I have a superstition that I should leave the headphone unplugged at boot, and plug it in later to get sound, but no rational basis for this belief (and it's not 100% reliable).
<shishirm1> well i stuck my ears to the speakers and found out its actually playing but the volume is too low
<shishirm1> how to increase i
<persia> Hmm.  If the normal volume control doesn't work, you can try alsamixer
<shishirm1> sound* opening sound mixer doesnt happen
<shishirm1> how do i open it??
<persia> Run alsamixer from a terminal.
<persia> Also, I'm heading away, so I shan't be able to help you much tonight (I'm 3.5 hours east of you)
<shishirm1> ok
<shishirm1> how to increase volume using alsamixer??
<shishirmk> guys someone please help me get my sound up on ume  please
<shishirmk> :-$ i tried running alsamixer by just typing alsamixer
<shishirmk> dies with an error
<shishirmk> guys can any1 help me with clutter??
<shishirmk> i wanna install clutter on my UMe
<shishirmk> tried using apt-get dint work
<shishirmk> added repo according to clutter site still couldn get it
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-08-16
<bala> hello
<persia> bala: Good day.
<bala> thnx
<bala> anyone has any idea how to port ubuntu mobile on a menlow board????
<persia> Does the menlow image not work for you?
<bala> i just downloaded a USB image of ubuntu hardy for menlow
<bala> from cd image site
<bala> i tried creating two partitons in USB 
<bala> both ext3 and used dd tool to write image onto the pendrive when i power up the board it hangs up
<bala> could u plz help me with some documentation on porting ubuntu on menlow board/platforms
<persia> Hmm.  I'm not sure you want the partitions.  I believe the image expects to create a bootable VFAT filesystem on the entire key.
<bala> allright
<bala> then 
<bala> where will the image install???
<bala> i just haave another USB driver where it can load the OS
<bala> drive*
<persia> I believe it installs on the first discovered SCSI disk (which might be SCSI, SATA, PATA, USB, or 1394).
<bala> actually what happens is that it at times searches for the devices
<persia> And it can't find any devices?
<bala> but finds none even though i have a pen drive connected
<bala> any problems with the fs on the pen drive???
<persia> I'm not sure: I don't have any devices without built-in storage, so haven't tried that.
<bala> any documentation u can find to help me out????
<persia> Not really.  The images are created with MIC: you might look at fiddling with the chroot to see if you can get it to work.  Does the device boot off an i386 livecd?
<persia> (or image thereof)
<bala> actually the board that i use is shipped from intel it doesnt have any CD drives/HDDs
<bala> no storage present
<persia> Right.  Do you not have a bootable USB optical drive for testing?
<persia> Alternately, you can put the CD image on a USB key to make sure that works.
<bala> ok
<persia> Essentially, the point wouldbe to determine if the device discovery was a problem with the kernel or the installer.
<bala> but m using the DD command to write the .img file to USB 
<bala> thats a correct step that m following isnt it?
<persia> If it's the kernel, it likely needs deeper fiddling than if it's just that the presented device names don't match that which the installer is expecting.
<bala> ok
<persia> Yes, for the images at the URL in the topic, dd is the right way to copy to the USB key.  Many people have reported better succes rates using bs=1024k
<bala> ok
<bala> sometimes it says cant find root VFS error
<persia> That makes me think it's a problem booting the USB device: it may be in an unexpected place.  You might try fiddling with the arguments from the grub menu.
<bala> yeah but when i connect the USB it states boot: there is no option there reg the grub menu just have to press enter to select the vmlinuz kernel
<persia> bala: Try typing menu at the grub prompt.
<bala> there is no grub prompt
<persia> I thought the boot warning on the USB key was a grub prompt.  Hmm.
<persia> Hold on a bit, and I'll get a test environment up.
<bala> ok
<persia> RIght.  I've just booted off the mccaslin image (I don't have any menlow devices), and I get a "boot:" prompt, at which I am told to press enter.
<bala> yeah exactly
<persia> That boot: prompt is a grub prompt.
<bala> ohh 
<bala> ok actually m just starting off with this so did nt know
<bala> ok
<bala> so u mean to say in grub i shd modify the setiings so that the target installation device is USB?
<persia> It sounds to me like you're encountering booting issues, rather than installation issues.  Am I missing something?
<bala> not booting the USB device in wich i have just the image boots if i have a vfat fs on it not if two partitions but once it does it doesnt find the target device which is again USB (2nd ) to install into
<persia> Oh, you are trying to install to another partition on the same device?  I thought you were trying to install to a different USB device.
<bala> yes a diff USB device
<persia> OK, so it boots cleanly, and then can't find a device.
<bala> yes 
 * persia presses enter to get farther
<persia> Are you getting errors where it keeps sleeping for 5 seconds while checking device /dev/sd[abcd] for installation source?
<bala> yes
<bala> absolutely the same
<persia> OK.  I've replicated that.
<persia> Hmm.  It appears that the install sequence makes a number of assumptions about the HW present, and while it works for some devices, it doesn't for others.
<bala> ok
<persia> Essentially, it needs the booting USB key to have been mapped to /dev/sd[abcd] in order to proceed with the install, but that may not be the case for all HW environments.
<bala> so it wont work for USB????
<persia> Well, at least it's not tuned for the board you have (not surprising, as this was tested only on the Crown Beach).
<bala> ohk
<bala> i have a crown beach board as well in office
<bala> but my concern is that in that as well there is no inbuilt storage
<persia> I'm going to again recommend booting off a USB image constructed from an i386 livecd (or booting off a USB optical drive), and seeing if you can determine where the devices are being mapped.
<bala> so will it install onto a USB
<bala> ok
<persia> I thought the crown beach did have a local storage interface (I don't have one, so I'm not sure).
<bala> all right
<bala> thanx a lot for ur help
<persia> You can definitely construct an image that installs onto USB, but you may have to modify Install.py to make sure that you are pointing at the right target.
<persia> Good luck with your solution.
<bala> install.py  ?/?
<bala> where is that file???
<persia> In the MIC source.
<persia> (moblin-image-creator)
<bala> yeah
<bala> and for MIC to work we need the 8.10 version of ubuntu rght cant get it off with just an old ubuntu rig?
<persia> I'd recommend getting the MIC from archive.mobile.ubuntu.com, as it has some improvements over that on archive.ubuntu.com for 8.04.
<persia> The 8.10 MIC is basically identical to the archive.mobile.ubuntu.com MIC, except it has been built for 8.10 instead of 8.04.
<bala> ok thnx a lot for ur tips 
<bala> i'll try implementing them
<bala> once again thnx a lot
<persia> bala: I'm sorry I can't tell you more: I just don't have the HW to replicate that cleanly.
<bala> u have been helpful all this while answering patiently my qns that itself is enuf
<lool> persia: Hmmm you seem to claim that linux-lpiacompat works on i586+; I think lpia is i686, are you sure this is supported?
<persia> lool: amitk suggested it was, but I've never heard if it works or not from anyone with i586 HW.
<persia> And yes, lpia is i686, but apparently the linux-lpiacompat kernel was designed to create an lpia-like environment for non-lpia (or at least that was my understanding from what was said).
<persia> I'll see if I can find the log: I may be misinterpreting.
<persia> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/07/31/%23ubuntu-mobile.html
<lool> Ok; that was just in case; I don't strongly care, but was surprized by the discrepancy
<lool> persia: Sounds like you were intrepreting correctly to me; thanks for the inf
<lool> o
<persia> lool: No problem.  It was a surprise to me as well.
 * persia wants someone with an older Geode or a C7-M to report definitively "it works" or "it doesn't work".
<lool> I have some via here, but not C7
<persia> Is it i586?
<lool> Yeah, at least
<lool> oh it's a c7 actually
<persia> When you have a chance, could you try booting the linux-lpiacompat kernel?  If it works, I can feel confident with the advice I give Eee users.  If it doesn't, I'll stop telling people it ought to work.
<lool> I'll need to unpack it and all some day; I'll do that ASAP but certainly not this WE
<persia> No huge rush.  Be nice to know if it works, but generally those without lpia HW ought be testing in a VM.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-08-10
<davmor2> Guys I got karmic unr on AAO over the weekend the new interface started to crash out after about 10-30 seconds leaving you with a black bar that does nothing, is it something that got corrupted with an upgrade should I try a fresh install?
<lool> davmor2: What crashes?  Can you connect over SSH?
<davmor2> lool: I don't have ssh-server install so no, I can't seem to switch over to console either.  I think I'll try a fresh install and see if that fixes it I'll drop ssh-servers
<lool> okay
<dolga> hello
<dolga> anyone here knows how to install ubuntu mid on hp ipaq hx4700??
<derekS> hey guys. whats the deal with moblin/ubuntu? is there a more netbookish ubuntu than the one that came with my dell netbook?
<derekS> ideally based on moblin?
<lool> derekS: The moblin stack is partially packaged publicly
<lool> But not fully in Ubuntu yet
<lool> derekS: I recommend sticking to UNR for now
<ogra> though the default UNR looks a lot different from the launcher dell ships afauk
<ogra> *afaik
<ogra> "more netbookish" probably 
<derekS> ogra: its not just the launcher, its the whole experience
<ogra> well, pull an UNR image and try it from USB, its a live image so you can easily compare to what you have installed
<derekS> it would be nice to have the 25 second boot time, the great UX, with the ubuntu backend
<derekS> ogra: is there a vmware image?
<ogra> the karmic images are isos 
<ogra> you should be able to run them in vbox, qemu, kvm or vmware
<derekS> yeah, thankss, i'll try it out
<ian_brasil> i like the new unr interface b.t.w
<lool> ian_brasil: The one in karmic?
<ian_brasil> yes
<lool> njpatel: ^
<lool> njpatel: kudos for new UNR
<njpatel> lool: thanks :)
<njpatel> it's the design team's work, though :)
 * njpatel needs to fix the crasher on exit
<ian_brasil> right, it is very professional...i found a launcher bug though #411088 which happened after a suspend/resume kernel bug #411091
<ubottu> Bug 411091 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/411091 is private
<njpatel> weird, can't see it
<ian_brasil> netbook-launcher crashed with SIGSEGV in g_cclosure_marshal_VOID__OBJECT()
<njpatel> ian_brasil: ah right, i'll fix that first-thing tomorrow. I've seen the dups pile up today, but am busy with some other deadlines.
<njpatel> hopefully the fix will land in alpha 4
<ian_brasil> njpatel, thx - *much* slicker interface..i have had a couple of 'i want that' requests already
<njpatel> ian_brasil: nice :) More stuff is possible with the new architecture, I'm going to try and do a few posts on planet ubuntu detailing it in the couple of weeks, hopefully people can do some cool stuff with it
<ian_brasil> and i personally like the grouping of everything in 'system'..the focus on the user interface is really paying off so congrats
<derekS> so just downloaded the UNR. nice UI. Is there an effort to make it more like moblin?
<derekS> less desktopish
<derekS> more netbookish?
<derekS> imho, this is too desktopish, and moblin isn't desktopish enough
<ian_brasil> derekS, i think that is called personal taste ;)
<derekS> ian_brasil: playing with them, i feel like they have different goals
<ian_brasil> well they are different projects
<derekS> ian_brasil: yeah, the ubuntu is much more full featured, but the UX of moblin is pretty amazing, imho, it is just too limiting
<derekS> i hope that UNR builds on moblin
<ian_brasil> there was a spec for this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/MobileKarmicMoblinRemix but i think it was dropped
<ian_brasil> but theoretically you could just install ubuntu minimal and then build the moblin interface using alien on the rpm's
<derekS> ian_brasil: yeah, i saw that. the greatest part about ubuntu is that we don't have to do that :)
<ian_brasil> well i think the greatest part is that we *can* do that :)
<derekS> ian_brasil: haha yeah
<ian_brasil> derekS, http://blog.canonical.com/?p=173
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-08-11
<Yggdrasill> 'lo
<davmor2> lool: shouldn't there be a more prominent icon for installing unr?  I finally found it in Sys->Admin
<ogra> davmor2, i think GrueMaster filed a bug about that yesterday (though he said it would be missing completely)
<davmor2> ogra: no it's there under sys->admin but you have to scroll past all of preferences to find it
<ogra> right, i think GrueMaster missed that, wait until he gets up to confirm
<lool> davmor2: Should be in favorites but the favorites system changed
<lool> StevenK: ^
<davmor2> lool: that the other thing if you had an existing setup for favourite then stuff got duped by the new system not overwriting the old one so there were 2 help, 2 empathys, 1firefox and 1epiphany etc
<davmor2> if you upgrade rather than fresh install I should say
<lool> davmor2: That's knowm bug
<lool> njpatel: ^
<davmor2> that's okay then :)
<StevenK> Er, I thought I fixed that
<StevenK> The favourites thing, that is
<davmor2> StevenK: not in todays image it isn't
<StevenK> What I meant to say is that I had made casper changes that I thought dealt with it. It seems they don't.
<StevenK> I'll check tomorrow
<njpatel> StevenK: seems like a migration bug in the launcher, no?
<StevenK> Why would it be?
<StevenK> I'm now setting gconf keys in the launcher for the installer to show up ...
<njpatel> StevenK: sorry, was talking about the dup favorites
<StevenK> njpatel: For that, yes.
 * njpatel makes note to check
<davmor2> shutdown dialogue seems to be missing suspend and resume.  also in order to shut the system down I have to hit the power button and select shutdown due the the launcher crashing which is a pre-reported apport bug
<ogra> thats likely because the fusa isnt there yet
<ogra> *new fusa
<njpatel> yeah, I think that the way the launcher figures out whether suspend/hibernate is available on the system is broken (well, it's changed in karmic, so I need to update)
<StevenK> davmor2: File a bug for that, I've not seen one
<davmor2> StevenK: I just went to but it was already filed.  I'll do it again and track down the number for you
<StevenK> davmor2: Ah, nice.
<GrueMaster> ogra: davmor2  I didn't even know there was a system>admin section (didn't scroll down that far).  In my opinion, that is very counter-intuitive, and not very user friendly.
<ogra> indeed
<davmor2> GrueMaster: That was my piont :)
<davmor2> StevenK: bug 395468 I think lp is being a bit slow
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 395468 in netbook-launcher "netbook-launcher crashed with signal 5 in g_main_context_dispatch()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395468
<davmor2> yes that's the one
<davmor2> StevenK: all you are left with is the main bar at the top and no access to anything.  when you hit the power button you get a different shutdown menu (like the one in default ubuntu install) and this then shuts the system down
<derekS> hey guys, is there a status update on the canonical blog post ian_r sent me about UNR+moblin?
<derekS> very interested in this
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Yes, it's unintended.
<StevenK> davmor2: Yes, I know about the bug, it's in progress.
<StevenK> davmor2: Wait, that isn't the bug I was talking about -- I was talking about missing Suspend and Resume options in the shutdown dialog
 * ogra guesses that will completely change anyway if the DX team finally uploads the new FUSA
<ogra> which seems to be still in progress
<GrueMaster> cgregan: I ran the moblin compliance tests yesterday, but we don't have all the required libraries in the repositories yet.  Is there a ppa I should get these from?  Also, some of the standard libraries (QT, etc) may have been modified by the moblin team, or their tests need to be recompiled against the latest LSB libraries.
<cgregan> GrueMaster: I have absolutely no luck in running the tests
<cgregan> Do you have an interface with the Moblin folks?
<GrueMaster> Yes, on #moblin.
<GrueMaster> Oops. wrong chat line.  Meet me in #mobile.
<cgregan> GrueMaster: Can you see if we can get a definitive moblin compliance suite from Intel?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-08-12
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Your "OMG where's the installer gone" bug has been fixed, the daily should (hopefully) pick it up.
<GrueMaster> About time, slacker.  :P
<StevenK> Don't make me come over there. :-P
<GrueMaster> In the 16 hours it would take for you to get here, I think I could successfully hide in a hole dug by a turtle.
<StevenK> WTB teleporter, PST
<GrueMaster> Heh.
<StevenK> Anyway, the bug was trivial, and I don't want to talk about it. :-(
<GrueMaster> I know it was a small one.  Just filing for completeness (and to make it look like I'm actually working).
<StevenK> And then I'll nail it shut since I've already done the work.
<GrueMaster> I'll mark it as Fix Released once I test it tomorrow.
<StevenK> Meh, I can do that once I see in an image if you're paranoid
<GrueMaster> Not really.  Just thought it would be better for the tester to mark it as fix released as opposed to the developer.  More of a sane verification.
<GrueMaster> But I'm good either way.
<davmor2> lool: right netbook-launcher has just died again but this time there is no apport trigger so I don't know what's going on there I'll see if I can track down the original crash without re-installing if not I re-install
<derekS> hey guys, where can i find a status on the ubuntu-mobile project
<derekS> what is being worked on
<derekS> etc
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-08-13
<rb789> can anyone help me set up sprint mobile?
<rb789> I got ip address, dns server etc but connection not working
<rb789> not sure what is going on. I am not linux expert either
<lool> derekS: We meet regularly and track progress on spec on the wiki and on launchpad
<lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lbt> NCommander: YokoZar thought there was an #ubuntu-meeting re MID/Mer ....
