#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-24
<ChrisWoollard> If I wanted to fix some of those many bugs. How your I go about it?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: You'd have to have TeX Live 2009 installed, download the lucid-e2 branch from bzr, and then start editing.
<godbyk> Don't just take the bug reporters' words for it, though.  They may not always be right. :)
<godbyk> (Technically, you don't need TL2009, but it's good to test that it compiles successfully before you commit.)
<ChrisWoollard> I know they might not be accurate.
<ChrisWoollard> But at least they have spent the effort finding things
<ChrisWoollard> What do you do after editing? That is the bit I am unsure of?
<godbyk> Save the file, commit it to bzr, and push.
<godbyk> Do you know how to use bzr?
<ChrisWoollard> Not to much but I have read http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/latest/en/mini-tutorial/
<ChrisWoollard> And i have managed to get the manual from bzr ok before
<Zeike> What is the location to push revisions too?  I've just done some bug-fixes
<Zeike> bzr push lp:ubuntu-manual, yes?
<godbyk> Zeike: yes.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: the basic workflow is:
<godbyk> bzr pull
<godbyk> make edits
<godbyk> bzr pull (again)
<godbyk> bzr commit
<godbyk> bzr push
<godbyk> lather, rinse, repeat.
<ChrisWoollard> I assume that that second bzr pull is the collect updated revisions before commiting
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: yep
<godbyk> make sure that, if a pull modifies a file you've been working on, it didn't screw something up.
<ChrisWoollard> thanks. that is useful.
<ChrisWoollard> That makes sense/
<ChrisWoollard> Night All.....
<Zeike> On page 121 there is a nice chart of the standard files directories with a quick introduction.  Is it planned to add a complete description of what most of these directories are for?
<Zeike> Also, the section immediately after that on "Mounting and unmounting removable devices" seems out of place in the command line section.
<godbyk> Zeike: I think that was one of the unfinished sections. Explaining the Linux file system layout.
<Zeike> is there a place on launchpad where we're keeping track of that sort of thing?
<godbyk> Not that I know of.
<godbyk> Feel free to file a bug so we don't forget.
<Zeike> Alright.  I don't mind writing the file system descriptions either
<godbyk> Sure. You might email the list and ask what should go there. I don't know what they originally had in mind.
<nisshh> i cant remember who did that section it was added on right at the last minute
<Zeike> I filed a bug
 * humphreybc is doing python labs, everyone, beware!
<Zeike> So I noticed from the mailing list that theres some tension between this & the ubuntu-docs team?
<humphreybc> there used to be, but now I think everything is coming right
<nisshh> well, we hope
<Zeike> well thats good then
<humphreybc> flan: ping
 * humphreybc cries for help
<humphreybc> godbyk, ping
<godbyk> humphreybc: pong
<humphreybc> help me!
<godbyk> what's up?
<humphreybc> I'm trying to catch up on labs that I missed while I was away
<humphreybc> Conveniently, I also missed the associated lectures
 * nisshh throws humphreybc a python lifesavers ring
<godbyk> fun
<humphreybc> which means that I'm firing myself blindly into the object oriented bit of python
<humphreybc> which means I have no idea what I'm doing
<nisshh> oooh, i did some OOP just the other day
<humphreybc> I have two python files, Point.py and Rectangle.py
<humphreybc> etherpad?
<godbyk> sure.
<humphreybc> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/humphreybc-help
<godbyk> Is anyone currently editing the manual?
<godbyk> (So I don't end up creating conflicts when we all commit our changes.)
<humphreybc> I don't think so
<humphreybc> Ilya was ediitng last but he's gone now?
<godbyk> Ilya's out for a bit. But a couple other people were going to start editing, I think.
<humphreybc> hmm
<humphreybc> we should have a meeting, this weekend?
<godbyk> We do need to have a meeting very soon, yeah.
<godbyk> I'm game for this weekend.
<humphreybc> okay
<humphreybc> i'll sort it out later today
<godbyk> sounds good
<humphreybc> did daker look at that malware thing on our site?
<humphreybc> I love Joey's sidebar image for our "Show us ya bugs" competition on omgubuntu
<humphreybc> check it out, top of the sidebar on the right, http://omgubuntu.co.uk
<godbyk> I fixed the malware thing.
<godbyk> nice
<godbyk> hard to read, though.
<humphreybc> when Ilya and yourself have been triaging bugs, have you been assigning and targeting to milestones?
<humphreybc> or just changing the status?
<godbyk> I've just started. I try to assign milestones.
<humphreybc> also, priority would be nice too
<godbyk> Though so far I've been mostly just marking the invalid ones to get them out of the way.
<humphreybc> sure
<godbyk> yep
<humphreybc> not sure how we're going to keep track of who's submitted 10 confirmed
<humphreybc> I guess we just wait for someone to say they have, then go into their launchpad profile and see if they've got 10 bugs listed that are confirmed
<godbyk> or you can go through and tally 'em up at some point. :)
<humphreybc> or i could do that, yeah
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> howcome this aint working no more? http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8
<humphreybc> and how many copies of the book have sold on lulu?
<godbyk> humphreybc: because it's doing evil things and I haven't fixed it yet.
<godbyk> (it tries to pull the entire db table into memory and then tally things up instead of running nice SQL queries that do the work for us.)
<godbyk> Ooh.. free shipping on orders over $19.95 for this summer (at lulu.com).
<godbyk> I think ~70 books have been sold.
<humphreybc> shit!
<godbyk> Hard to tell though as lulu doesn't tell me when each book is sold. just gives me odd counts.
<humphreybc> that's still pretty impressive.
<humphreybc> do you know how many downloads now?
<humphreybc> or do we have to wait till that thing is fixed
<godbyk> no clue
<godbyk> we'll have to wait 'til we get the stats page fixed
<humphreybc> damn, i want to see if we're over 100,000 :)
<godbyk> nope.  around 87k, I think.
<humphreybc> almost there
<godbyk> and over 3k people signed up for notification when their translation is released.
<humphreybc> oh crap
<humphreybc> how are they going anyway?
<humphreybc> can we get some translated ones out?
<godbyk> German and Greek are fairly close.
<godbyk> But don't go posting things to twitter yet. :)
<humphreybc> are they being edited?
<godbyk> yeah.
<humphreybc> groovy
<humphreybc> Spanish would be lovely to get out
<humphreybc> should I be looking here for the latest translation status, or somewhere else? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
<godbyk> that's the place, basically.
<godbyk> requests for notification on the translations:
<godbyk> spanish = 967
<godbyk> russian = 321
<nisshh> i have an idea
<godbyk> portuguese =276
<godbyk> german = 261
<godbyk> vietnamese = 258
<nisshh> for a feature on the website
<godbyk> spanish = another 224
<godbyk> swedish = 145
<godbyk> russian = another 140
<humphreybc> nisshh: fire away
<nisshh> well, i was thinking, why not have all the languages currently being worked on listed in a drop-down box on the downloads page
<nisshh> when you go to download it
<nisshh> and if that language isnt yet complete, have a percentage bar(can we get the progress from LP?) showing how complete it ids
<nisshh> is
<nisshh> what do you think?
<nisshh> this way people would be like "Ah, itll be ready in my language soon"
<godbyk> I think right now you get taken to a page that says, 'Your translation is incomplete. If you want to help translating, go here.'  But we could add a progress bar to that page, probably.
<nisshh> rather than "Awww, they wont ever produce it in my lang"
<godbyk> it might also be handy to adjust the front page of our site to have an area for news and notices.
<nisshh> godbyk: ah cool, its just a small thing that may get more people interested and spread the word
<godbyk> so we can tell people what we're working on right now and what we need help with.
<nisshh> godbyk: yea!
<godbyk> we also need to write more instructions for helping us.
<godbyk> right now we get them set up with the right software, but then we don't tell them what to do next.
<humphreybc> yeah
<nisshh> yep
<nisshh> big issue i think
<nisshh> meeting this saturday then humphreybc?
<humphreybc> humphreybc: yea
<nisshh> humphreybc: are you talking to yourself again?
<nisshh> :)
<humphreybc> oops
<humphreybc> i'm trying to play guitar now :P
<nisshh> i thought you played drums?
<humphreybc> and guitar
<humphreybc> and trumpet
<nisshh> right, i play guuitar too
<nisshh> electric
<nisshh> not very good though
<godbyk> I used to play low brass instruments (tuba, baritone, euphonium, sousaphone) and the keyboard bass.
<nisshh> windsor_: hey dude
<windsor_> hi nisshh!
<humphreybc> godbyk I can picture you playing low brass
<nisshh> hehe
<godbyk> :)
<windsor_> about the second bug I filed today...I guess I didn't do my homework before posting a bug.  In US Grammar the punctuation IS placed within the quotation marks
<windsor_> sorry guys
<nisshh> im watching all 12 seasons of pokemon again, its 110GB!
<nisshh> windsor_: no probs, just mark it as invalid
<godbyk> windsor_: No worries.
<godbyk> windsor_: We should've pointed out that we're playing by US rules.
<godbyk> There are times when we break those rules, too.
<nisshh> godbyk: that would have been nice to do ages ago, considering all the spam i have got about it
<godbyk> (Especially the punctuation-inside-quotation-marks rule.. it makes things confusing sometimes.)
<windsor_> yeah, ever since grade school I've been going with certain rules that may differ from that used in the Manual
<nisshh> :)
<windsor_> =D
<godbyk> Ah, nisshh, you needed something to read anyway! :)
<nisshh> godbyk: there are at least 10-15 comma bugs reported on lp now, hehe
<nisshh> godbyk: meh
<nisshh> all of them for the first 15 pages too
<windsor_> yeah, I saw
<windsor_> about the Maverick manual.. is it planned to add new stuff as the dev build continues?
<nisshh> arhrhahrah, keep hitting control + x on my keyboard
<nisshh> windsor_: yes
<windsor_> ok great
<nisshh> windsor_: we plan to keep up with changes made in each new release of ubuntu
<windsor_> I see
<windsor_> can't wait for Maverick, RGBA graphics by default hee hee XD
<windsor_> so the whole manual is written according to US Grammatical Rules, what about spelling?
<godbyk> Spelling is US, too.
<godbyk> We do have a UK English translation, though. :)
<windsor_> ok
<nisshh> and AU is based on UK
<nisshh> well, mostly
<windsor_> ok, I'll go with US Style for everything then
<windsor_> thx for the clarification XD
<windsor_> bye everybody
<nisshh> cya
<godbyk> See ya, windsor_
<nisshh> godbyk: hows the style guide coming along?
<godbyk> What do you guys think of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/584452?
<godbyk> I'm not particularly interested in the fact that Ubuntu is Debian-based, and I our 'getting started' readers are either.  But some people in the community can get picky about such things.
<godbyk> nisshh: very, very slowly.
<godbyk> I'm going to ping Ilya about it some this week. See if we can get started on it.
<humphreybc> fuck i hate barre chords
<nisshh> humphreybc: lol
<humphreybc> my index finger just will not bend that way
<nisshh> humphreybc: how long have you been playing guitar
<nisshh> godbyk: yea, cool im going to go over it now and have a look
<humphreybc> about 2 years. I usually can get by with traditional chord shapes, which is what I usually play
<humphreybc> (and i've got pretty good at them)
<humphreybc> but when it comes to fucking F#m
<nisshh> humphreybc: try some ACDC or powderfinger, they have songs that are just single note stuff, or power chords
<nisshh> humphreybc: you need to have long spidery fingers to do F#m, its evil!
<nisshh> godbyk: havent actaully read the style guide since the original 2-page version was made
<nisshh> godbyk: about that bug, why should we not say ubuntu is debian-based?
<epkugelmass> godbyk, i know we're both working on the lucid-e2 branch right now. i'm trying to be careful not to step on your toes.
<godbyk> epkugelmass: no worries.
<godbyk> if you run into a conflict, you can run 'bzr uncommit' to uncommit your stuff, then 'bzr pull', and 'bzr commit' to recommit your work.
<godbyk> nisshh: well, we mention it earlier in the sentence already.
<nisshh> godbyk: right, well id leave it there if its applicaple to mention it twice
<godbyk> nisshh: have a look at the context of it in the PDF and tell me what you think.
<nisshh> godbyk: ok
<godbyk> nisshh: Add your arguments to the bug and ping me if you still think it should be Debian-based. :)
<nisshh> ok, ok ill do it properly
<godbyk> (only because I already made the change and resolved the bug.) :)
<nisshh> godbyk: arh, your too quick for me!
<nisshh> godbyk: which page is that on?
<godbyk> I'm not sure.  Search for 'Debian-based'
<godbyk> I think it was in the learning more chapter.
<nisshh> godbyk: i dont really know yet, but i read each part 3 times each and i cant say it is that bad, but maybe im wrong
<godbyk> I hear ya.
<godbyk> lots of nit-picking going on.
<godbyk> (which I'm okay with.)
<nisshh> hehe
<nisshh> aw, nice, a guy just thanked me for the manual in #ubuntu-au-chat
<godbyk> cool
<nisshh> apparently this guy just gave this manual to heaps of people and now they all use lucid!
<godbyk> printed copies or just the pdf?
<nisshh> pdf apparently
<nisshh> geez would have been expensive buying 25+ copies of the manual
<godbyk> true.
<epkugelmass> 20 bugs triaged/fixed in 1 hour!
<epkugelmass> nice work everyone =]
<nisshh> epkugelmass: nice!
<epkugelmass> i actually really enjoy bug crushing sessions. very satisfying
<nisshh> godbyk: he says the manual was *exactly* what they needed, they apparently said it was the *perfect* thing to get them started
<epkugelmass> nisshh, I'm behind here. Mind recapping? Who said what?
<godbyk> awesome
<nisshh> epkugelmass: hehe, you just missed it, a guy in #ubuntu-au-chat told me the story of how he had just given over 25 people the manual and they had all just started using lucid straight away
<epkugelmass> WOW!
<nisshh> i know, thats what i said
<nisshh> freakin amazing huh?
<humphreybc> gnarly
<epkugelmass> humphreybc, any word on the release dates or milestones for e2? july is coming up awfully quickly
<humphreybc> yeah, tell me about it!
<humphreybc> not sure really
<humphreybc> we don't have alphas or anything for e2
<epkugelmass> do we want to have an RC?
<humphreybc> i think the only thing we need is a writing freeze
<epkugelmass> i feel like we should have at least one public testing release before we publish
<epkugelmass> we could combine the two.
<humphreybc> yeah
<epkugelmass> but i would recommend a writing freeze (beta) then an RC, then release
<nisshh> epkugelmass: agreed
<godbyk> what's the writing freeze do for us?
<godbyk> I mean if we stop writing, there's nothing else to do, right?
<Zeike> proof, fix bugs
<epkugelmass> nisshh, humphreybc, we could rename the current e2 milestone to 'beta'. that will maintain the appropriate milestone targeting on the bugs. we can then add two more milestones
<epkugelmass> godbyk, it gives us something to release to the translators and our helpful bug catchers in the community
<humphreybc> there's actually no rush for lucid e2
<humphreybc> we've got 5 years to do it lol
<epkugelmass> haha, very funny -----
<nisshh> humphreybc: haha, no 3 because its about the desktop
<Zeike> Is there a planned number of editions or lucid, or just however many that get done?
<Zeike> editions for lucid*
<humphreybc> just two
<humphreybc> this is the only time we'll update the lucid one, because we didn't have that much time for the first one
<godbyk> epkugelmass: I think the translators are far enough behind that a writing freeze for e2 won't help them.
<godbyk> As long as 'writing freeze' does not mean 'string freeze', I'm okay with it.
<godbyk> If 'writing freeze' means 'no new content, only bug fixes', then I'm all for it.
<epkugelmass> godbyk, pardon me for being daft, but what 'first issue' are you addressing here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/584492
<godbyk> epkugelmass: Great question -- I have no idea!
<epkugelmass> lmao. ok, figure it out, or I'm marking the bug fixed.
<godbyk> I thought it had said something about the /home/ubuntu-manual text -- where 'ubuntu-manual' should be something like 'username' instead. But I must have conflated a couple bugs in my head.
<Zeike> godbyk: I think I fixed that bug earlier today
<godbyk> Zeike: okay.
<godbyk> I have way to many bug report emails.
<godbyk> I think my brain is fried.
<Zeike> while we're on that section, any thoughts on this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/584772
<godbyk> Zeike: I passed that one by because we need to write material for that section (or remove it).
<Zeike> I'll start writing something up then
<Zeike> is there a style guide in the bzr branch, or is the one linked to in the topic the most recent?
<godbyk> the one linked to in the topic will be the most recent.
<Zeike> thanks
<Zeike> Whats the standard for typesetting a directory? \code?
<godbyk> Zeike: \code will work for now.
<ubuntujenkins> morning
<ubuntujenkins> 181 bug mail messages
<nisshh> anyone working on the e2 branch?
<nisshh> godbyk: are you? ^
<nisshh> GODBYK!!!!!!
<godbyk-android> Nope. I'm in bed reading.
<nisshh> ah, ok thats why i had to yell
<nisshh> :)
<godbyk-android> Yep. :-)
<nisshh> ok, im just adding the glossary stuff from the spreadsheet
<nisshh> scratch that, im installing texlive, AGAIN!
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: what version of ubuntu are you usung?
<ubuntujenkins> because we have a lucid ppa
<nisshh> oh, we do?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: with texlive in it?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<nisshh> im running lucid, i have been since feb this year
<ubuntujenkins> we only had it last month i made it
<nisshh> ah ok
<ubuntujenkins> just getting the instructions
<nisshh> i heard about it but didnt know it was ready
<nisshh> whats the ppa called
<ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/438685/ should be all you need to know
<nisshh> wow, thats a much smaller download than the official script
<ubuntujenkins> not sure as some stuff comes form the lucid repo.
<ubuntujenkins> I will work this summer to make it for 9.10 etc
<nisshh> yea
<thorwil> morning!
<thorwil> godbyk: didn't you say something about the list being unsubscribed from bugs?
<thorwil> ah, nm got to Ben's mail about that, after deleting millions of mails
<thorwil> :)
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: ok, i installed tex from the ppa, and i just ran the install-pkgs script from the bzr branch, but it refuses to continue since it thinks i have the repo version of tex
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: nah its good now, no worries
<nisshh> WOW, the word 'distribution' is mentioned nearly 15 times in chapter 9
<thorwil> if the word distribution is distributed with such frequency, is it at least distributed evenly?
<nisshh> thorwil: nope, lol
<nisshh> its used in almost every sentence for about 4 paragraphs
<nisshh> godbyk: if your up can you please remind me how to use \gls{} with other commands?
<nisshh> godbyk-android: ^^^^
<nisshh> nvm
<nisshh> i really do hope no one is hacking on the e2 branch right now
<nisshh> right, the glossary is now getting there
<ubuntujenkins> yea nisshh the script is not needed if you use the ppa
<Surst> hello :)
<Surst> is there a particular reason, why the numbers in expressions like "eth0" are written in mathematical mode? ("eth$0$")?
<c7p> hey godbyk
<nisshh> c7p: i think godbyk is asleep
<c7p> nisshh: ok :)
<ChrisWoollard> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: pong
<ChrisWoollard> Hello
<godbyk> Morning.
<ChrisWoollard> can you have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/584035
<ChrisWoollard> and confirm the answer to the question about po files
<godbyk> sure. just a moment
<ChrisWoollard> Thank you.
<godbyk> I did change the settings to NOT import the po files.
<godbyk> (It was suggested that that would fix the problem we had earlier.)
<ChrisWoollard> Cool. I will update the bug
<godbyk> 'kay.
<ChrisWoollard> Thank You
<godbyk> np
<godbyk> I'll subscribe to the bug so I can keep an eye on it.
<ChrisWoollard> lovely. thanks
<ubuntujenkins> ooo quickshot is on the full circle podcast
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: yeah.
<godbyk> the second part of humphreybc's interview is in there and he's mostly talking about the tools/software we use (and write).
<ubuntujenkins> yea i have listened to it now
 * popey wonders if ubuntujenkins skipped past the good bits to humphreybc's interview ;)
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> like the parts about me and how awesome I am? :-)
<popey> that bit was corrupted in my download
<ubuntujenkins> no popey I have listened to  it all so far i am 1:04:50 so far.
<ubuntujenkins> might skip the key note as i have heard it before
<popey> apologies for rambling on
<ubuntujenkins> no it was good
<popey> we had a right time recording it over skype
<ubuntujenkins> i bet i was on a mates podcast it was cool
<c7p> hey godbyk
<godbyk> Hey, c7p
<c7p> godbyk: There are three bug reporters on the greek manual (e1). Do they have a chance to participate on the competition or it is only for english manual e2 ?
<godbyk> c7p: Good question. I don't know. It's Ben's competition; you'll have to ask him. :)
<c7p> godbyk: right! Have you checked the text about the font that you were telling me the other day? http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/22/%23ubuntu-manual.html#t21:42
<godbyk> The Bera Mono bit in the colophon? Not yet.
<c7p> so there is no text for translation
<godbyk> not yet.
<c7p> godbyk: Should I add or remove blank pages so the number of the first page of a chapter is prime number (=> left pages)?
<godbyk> c7p: Nope, no need.
<c7p> godbyk: ok as an editor i can tell that the job is finished (there are only 7-10 minor bug fixes that will be done today). What else remains ?
<godbyk> c7p: I'll have a glance through it to figure out what's left. We need to get the license worked out. (I'll contact Ilya about this.)  I'll get you the new text for the colophon in a couple hours.
<godbyk> Oh, and I'll harass the project leads about the whole credits thing again, too.
<c7p> godbyk: what about license ? I don't remember if i have told, topo made the license-el.tex file
<godbyk> c7p: Did topo translate it himself? If not, where did he get the license from?
<godbyk> We have to use specific license text from CC.
<c7p> yes it's from the site, let me find the link
<godbyk> Thanks.
<godbyk> I'll have Ilya double-check it.
<topografos> hey all
<topografos> the translation is from http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/gr/legalcode
<godbyk> topografos: Thanks!  I'll check with Ilya to make sure that's the license we're supposed to use.
<topografos> great
<godbyk> topografos: When you get a chance, add the ubuntu-manual-el.tex file to the repository.
<topografos> c7p has the up-to-date file. I will let him now, as he is currently not online
<godbyk> topografos: cool. thanks!
<c7p> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> c7p: pong
<c7p> I have found a bug on index
<c7p> godbyk: there are some entries that are mentioned twice, because there "subsections" in index e.g applications, command line
<godbyk> c7p: right. that's okay.
<godbyk> (well, okay = intentional)
<godbyk> all the applications and command-line apps are listed twice.
<topografos> it's a feature, not a bug :)
<c7p> godbyk: ok can i translate the words application and command line
<godbyk> once under their own name, and again under the 'applications' or 'command-line apps' heading
<godbyk> c7p: er.. wow. good point.
<c7p> topografos: right :d
<godbyk> c7p: you can send me the translations and I'll set it up.
<c7p> ok, and one last think before I send you the tex file. Can you put the revision stuff on sepperate lines ?
<c7p> actually the rev_date after rev_number
<godbyk> c7p: I'll take a look at it, but it's possible, yeah. (if I do, I'll have to send you an updated compile script)
<c7p> godbyk: i am composing the mail now, appart from the main tex file, do you need and license-el.tex ?
<godbyk> go ahead and send it to me.
<godbyk> I'm going to have Ilya look into the licensing issue when he's next online.
<godbyk> (He's been in contact with the Creative Commons lawyers and they've figured out what they want us to do -- I've just forgotten the details.)
<c7p> godbyk: message has been sent :D
<godbyk> 'kay. thanks!
<c7p> I thank you too :P
<c7p> godbyk for anything new don't hesitate to send me an email !
<c7p> night all
<dutchie> godbyk: work out what was going on in bugs.ubuntu-manual.org?
<godbyk> dutchie: I got the localhost one to work, but not via apache
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> is there anything in ~/.launchpadlib/credentials?
<godbyk> /home/godbyk/.launchpadlib/api.staging.launchpad.net/credentials/ubuntu-manual-bug-form
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> what about in the logs?
<godbyk> what logs?
<dutchie> apache logs
<godbyk> just "Premature end of script headers"
<dutchie> how odd
<dutchie> may be easier to CNAME bugs.u-m.o to my vps
<godbyk> no doubt.
<godbyk> I can set up a CNAME if you tell me what to point at.
<dutchie> haven't got anything yet :)
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> if you set something up, lemme know.
<dutchie> may do tomorrow
<godbyk> 'kay.
<ChrisWoollard> Quick question...... Is the PPA disabled?
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: what ppa?
<ubuntujenkins> the latex one?
<ChrisWoollard> yes
<ChrisWoollard> I thought a ppa was set up for installing all the tex live 2009 etc
<ubuntujenkins> it is and it is there. It only works on lucid
<ubuntujenkins> sorry i am confused do you have it and have a problem with it?
<ubuntujenkins> other wise the instructions are http://paste.ubuntu.com/438685/
<ChrisWoollard> Is that the same are the one listed at https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/+archive/beginnersmanual
<ubuntujenkins> no thats an old one its this one https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/+archive/ubuntu-manual (the one below the one you clicked)
<ubuntujenkins> the name was not sutible on the old one so we make a new ppa for latex
<ChrisWoollard> oops
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<ubuntujenkins> no problem
<ubuntujenkins> just copy the commands i pastebined
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<ChrisWoollard> night night ubuntujenkins
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-25
<quickshotdevs> New news from manualplanet: Benjamin Humphrey: Brussels, beer, Ubuntu and boys taking a leak
<ubuntujenkins> morning
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hey
<ubuntujenkins> hello nisshh
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: that ooa works great
<nisshh> ppa
<ubuntujenkins> that was the plan :P . So far we have no bugs with it I hope it stays like that
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can we add the ppa to the website?
<ChrisWoollard_> I also agree. That ppa works a treat.
<dutchie> problem #42 in making the bug form work: debian has bzr 1.5, launchpad requires bzr 1.16 to download branches
<popey> dutchie: upgrade bzr?
<dutchie> popey: yeah, going to have to
<dutchie> stupid inferoior 2g connection
<dutchie> bah
<dutchie> no godbyk or daker :(
<thorwil> dutchie: look on the bright side! i'm here and most likely totally useless regarding whatever you have on your mind or at hand ;)
<dutchie> do you know if there is a 500/404 page used on u-m.org?
<dutchie> that I canborow
<thorwil> http://ubuntu-manual.org/thequeenisnotamused
<thorwil> apparently the url is interpreted as far as possible, so you always get at least the home page :(
<nisshh> godbyk: there is a guy asking on lp when the german version of e1 will be released, apparently its now fully translated on lp
<nisshh> godbyk-android: ^^^
<ChrisWoollard_> There have been a lot of bugs filed today against the manual!
<dutchie> godbyk: CNAME bugs.ubuntu-manual.org to um-bugs.joshh.co.uk
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard_: my inbox noticed :-)
<ChrisWoollard_> It looks like a guy called Marc Stewart is reading the intire book and logging bugs as he goes. He is on page 36 at the moment. :)
<ChrisWoollard_> i mean entire
<ubuntujenkins> at least we will be very bug free
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: your form asks for an e-mail. Where in the bug report does that go? will it not be traceable by bots?
<ChrisWoollard_> Some of those bugs are tricky. He is really pushing my knowledge of english grammar. So much so that I have had to get a book out to help.
<ubuntujenkins> I thought i would try and help. but then i looked at how complex they can be and decided my english is not up to it. I am a mechnical engineer we are better at maths
<ubuntujenkins> be back later
<ubuntujenkins> o/
<ChrisWoollard_> I am going to spend my evening trying to make sense of some more. At least he is explaining his reasoning behind the changes.
<ChrisWoollard_> See you
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: it doesn't go anywhere yet
<dutchie> i may remove it
<dutchie> initially I just copied the fields from the spreadsheet
<dutchie> now it's up, i can start to get some feeback
<dutchie> +d
<dutchie> just don't let humphreybc publicise it everywhere, as it's nowhere near ready
<dutchie> right, hometime
<ubuntujenkins>  dutchie message recived I will stop ben if i see someone tell him
<godbyk> I'm home again.
<godbyk> I'll take a look at the ubuntu-manual bugs in a moment.
<godbyk> Going to have lunch first.
<ChrisWoollard> There are lots
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: No problem. I can usually blow through them pretty quickly.
<godbyk> I'm fairly good at US English grammar.
<godbyk> (And don't mind telling people that they're wrong.) :)
<godbyk> is anyone else editing right now that I'll interfere with?
<ChrisWoollard> Not at the moment. After I put my children to bed. I'll mark bugs as in progress if I am working on them.
<godbyk> okay, cool.
<nisshh> godbyk: let me know when you go through and hunt for glossary entries, no rush but id like to get a whole bunch more in there
<godbyk> I'm gonna eat lunch real quick and then I'll dive in.
<godbyk> nisshh: absolutely!
<nisshh> cool
<godbyk> nisshh: you might post a message to the list and ask people what they think should be in the glossary and index, too.  just so we have some ideas.
<godbyk> nisshh: oh, and you shouldn't have self-referencing glossary entries.  don't use \gls{thisword} in the 'thisword' entry. (there's not much point.)
<nisshh> godbyk: right, and since chapter 6 is no longer going to be in the manual after 10.10 i might take over the maintenance of the index
<nisshh> godbyk: good point ill remove those tommorrow
<godbyk> 'kay.
<godbyk> we'll collect ideas for the index. I'll work with you on it a bit later.
<godbyk> (it's easy; we just need to make sure we set some rules for consistency.)
<nisshh> right, like we are doing for the rest of the manual
<godbyk> yep
<nisshh> ok, ill post to the ML in the morning
<nisshh> my brain is starting to die now that its 2am
<godbyk> heh.. no worries.
<nisshh> anyways, ill cya in the morning probably, gnight!
<godbyk> Okay, time to crush some bugs.
<godbyk> Right now I'm just going through and assigning most of the grammar-related bugs to myself.  I'll start editing them in a little bit.
<ChrisWoollard> I have also started working on bugs
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: feel free to dive in. I've assigned a bunch of them to myself. (mostly the grammar and formatting bugs.)
<godbyk> I have to send out a few emails, so I won't be stepping on your toes in bzr for a little while yet. :)
<ChrisWoollard> As
<ChrisWoollard> I am going to work on one thing at a time and mark in progress as I am going
<ChrisWoollard> I am going to prop
<ChrisWoollard> probably work on anything that isn't formatting
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> I think I stole most the formatting bugs, too.
<godbyk> :)
<dutchie> godbyk: did you do the CNAME?
<godbyk> dutchie: uh, nope. where do you want me to point it?
<dutchie> um-bugs.joshh.co.uk
<dutchie> should be ready to go
<godbyk> okay.
<godbyk> setting it up now
<dutchie> (you can observe it running at that address, too)
<godbyk> I've added the CNAME record.
<godbyk> It may take a moment for it to propagate to all the DNS servers, of course.
<godbyk> But it looks like it's working here already.
<godbyk> http://bugs.ubuntu-manual.org/
<ubuntujenkins> works for me
<Zeike> me too
<godbyk> submitting a bug to test it. :)
<godbyk> what's the story with staging.launchpad.net, anyway?
<dutchie> testing purposes :)
<godbyk> my bug: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/580292
<dutchie> feedback?
 * ubuntujenkins has a go
<godbyk> I would probably set English and Spelling.. as the defaults for the dropdown lists.
<godbyk> (the language in the end should default to the browser language, but we only have the english edition out so far.)
<Zeike> Does anybody want to give this a quick look through and tell me what you think? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/439510/
<godbyk> maybe add a note telling them where to find the revision number (bottom of the copyright page)
<ubuntujenkins> you can type letters in the number feild
<godbyk> Zeike: what am I looking at?
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: but if you click submit, it shouldn't let you
<dutchie> godbyk: noted
<godbyk> of course, we'll want to pretty up the formatting at some point, but I assume you're not asking about that. :)
<dutchie> well, yeah, that too
<Zeike> Its the file system section from the command line chapter.  Page 121
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: my bad had not got that far
<godbyk> seems okay. was there anything we had on our google bug form that didn't transfer over?
<godbyk> dutchie: ooh, could you have it do a lookup on the supplied page number to add the chapter name to the bug report, too?  makes it easier to find the bug on our end.
<godbyk> (I realize it's variable depending on the revision, but it'll give us an idea.)
<godbyk> (and it beats me grepping the .tex files for a phrase)
<ubuntujenkins> also the suggestion box doesn't show in the bug report or a i mad?
<dutchie> godbyk: that sounds, er, fun
<dutchie> i was going to add in a dupe finder based vaguely on what we have in the DB
<dutchie> could just add in a "chapter" ox
<dutchie> +b
<godbyk> true. as long as it's not too much to ask of people. :)
<dutchie> yeah
<dutchie> could probably collapse some of those entries down a little
<godbyk> default the revision entry to the current released edition of the translation/language they selected.
<dutchie> hang on
<dutchie> need to find somewhere to make notes
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: i don't think i added the suggestion box to what shows up in LP, so no, you're not mad :)
<ubuntujenkins> hehe I think i may be mad any way :P
<dutchie> entirely possible
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can we update the website with the latex ppa?
 * dutchie shares the todo doc with other @ubuntu-manual.org folks
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you mean edit the text on the site?  sure. I'll add it to my list. :)
<ubuntujenkins> cheers godbyk :)
<dutchie> godbyk: know if there is an easy way to make it visible to UMP folks?
<dutchie> (via google docs)
<godbyk> dutchie: I'm not sure. other than sending a link.
<godbyk> lemme see if it shows up in my list.
<dutchie> i don't think it will
<godbyk> gah.
<godbyk> google's captcha's are the worst!
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I have sent you the instructions to save you finding them on the mailing list
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: thanks
<ubuntujenkins> thanks for doing it I have not looked into how to add stuff to the website yet. I need to sort out a quickshot one
<godbyk> dutchie: yeah, it's not in the list.
<godbyk> if you go to the sharing dialog, I think there's a 'share with all @ubuntu-manual.org users' checkbox or something.
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: no problem.
<dutchie> i can't see one
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: basically just edit a file and commit it. the server auto-pulls every so oftetn.
<dutchie> i think that's because i created it with my normal @googlemail.com account
<godbyk> ah, that's probably why.
<dutchie> the accounts are linked together though
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: yea i guessed but i need to make sure i do it correctly etc. I will add it to the list of stuff to do
<ubuntujenkins> I have set myself a deadline of 30th of june to have devloped the manual program for maverick and the quickshot ui. I hope i can pull it off as I will not be able to start untill 21st
<dutchie> right, that does it
<godbyk> cool
<ubuntujenkins> I think lots of skype calls will be needed to say how wrong i have got it :)
<ubuntujenkins> I like the input really
<godbyk> I have to do some other work stuff for a bit (nothing exciting, unfortunately).  so I may be slow to respond. ping me if anyone needs me, though.
<ubuntujenkins> whats the biggest skype call you can have?
<dutchie> right, one todo list uploaded to docs.ubuntu-manual.org
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: i can't see it :/
<ubuntujenkins> its not on my list
<dutchie> oh stupid thing
<dutchie> say shared from me to Ubuntu Manual
<dutchie> are you logged in with your @ubuntu-manual.org address?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<dutchie> stupid slow safari
<dutchie> it definitely says shared with everyone at ubuntu manual
<ubuntujenkins> #blamep-o-p-e-y :P
<dutchie> #blameubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<dutchie> #blamegoogle
<dutchie> http://docs.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/Doc?docid=0ARIi6BtbYjOIZGhiNndmbjlfMDR6aDN4YnBy&hl=en_GB
<dutchie> does that work?
<ubuntujenkins> yep
<ubuntujenkins> strange
<ubuntujenkins> and now its in my list
<ubuntujenkins> thanks josh
<dutchie> good good
<ChrisWoollard> Can somebody give me their thoughts on bug #585484. Personally I think they are being picky. But i would like a 2nd / 3rd opinion.
<dutchie> ooh, no manualbot
<ubuntujenkins> #585484
<godbyk> bug 545484
<godbyk> ah, bummer.
<godbyk> bad bots!
<ubuntujenkins> #585484
<ubuntujenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/585484
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 585484 in ubuntu-manual "Factual problem with sudo on page 123" [Undecided,New]
<godbyk> yay, manualbot!
<dutchie> really should get round to making manualbot start on boot
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: Personally I agree with the bug reporter. If I hit alt+f2 and type sudo gedit i don't see the sudo promt. I need gksudo so that i can type in my password. It is picky but could be frustraing to a new user. just my humble opinion.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I would say that if the manual is introducing sudo, use sudo.
<godbyk> I don't know that I run GUI apps using sudo..  I typically use it with command-line apps. But that's because I'm usually only running command-line apps.
<dutchie> (note manualbot connects over ipv6 for extra geek points)
<ChrisWoollard> By looking at the manual i get the impression that sudo is being run from the shell and not from Alt+F2. If it was Alt+F2 I would specify gksudo.
<ChrisWoollard> from the shell it really doesn't matter.
<ChrisWoollard> Ok. It has been decided. In this case it says as it is.
 * dutchie can tell from humphreybc's experience of European steak that he has not been to Europe before
<dutchie> "Ask for a medium steak, get a rare steak. Ask for a rare steak, get a live cow."
<godbyk> The last time I ordered a "hamburger" in England, I got a Salisbury steak on a bun.
<godbyk> Also, cuts of meat are different in Europe, I discovered (or at least Germany).
<godbyk> It added an extra complication when I was trying to explain to the butcher what I wanted. (The first complication being that I don't speak German.)
<ChrisWoollard> Where were you eating
<godbyk> I don't recall now.
<dutchie> what the hell is a Salisbury steak?
<godbyk> I remember we were both reduced to pointing at body parts, though. :)
<ChrisWoollard> A steak from Salisbury. Duh.
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<godbyk> dutchie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_steak  :)
<godbyk> I think the only time I've seen the name, it's been on a TV dinner.
<dutchie> stupid americans and your made-up words
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> I wouldn't have guessed the etymology going back to a person's name. That's interesting.
<godbyk> (Wikipedia teaches me so many new things each day.  It's wondrous!)
<ChrisWoollard> To me that sounded English. BUt apparently not. That explains why I have never heard of it
<godbyk> Yeah, I'd assumed it was named after Salisbury (the place), but knew it was likely a US thing.
<godbyk> (It was too processed to have come from anywhere else. ;-))
<ChrisWoollard> Godbyk: I think bug #584504 is one for you. It is an index entry appearing in the wrong place
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 584504 in ubuntu-manual "erroneous entry at start of Index ie first entry of "CD/DVD Creator, 27"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/584504
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: fair enough. feel free to assign it to me.
<ChrisWoollard> ok, will do
<ChrisWoollard> I have a problem compiling the manual. It won't build anymore. It gets stuck half way
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: please paste bin your error
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: post the main.log file.
<ubuntujenkins> he he I saw "later live with jools holland" and read it as "later live with josh holland"
<ChrisWoollard> http://paste.ubuntu.com/439562
 * dutchie is famous
<ChrisWoollard> I don't think it was me that broke it.  I deleted my local branch and started again. It still didn't compile
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: are you compiling the main US English version? 'cause that log file looks okay
<ChrisWoollard> That is weird. in the terminal it said error 1
<ChrisWoollard> I was doing the us english
<ubuntujenkins> I am glad you say its ok kevin cos i thought so too. I thought i was missing the obvious
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: paste the output around the Error 1 stuff.
 * ubuntujenkins theres like 100 bug emails a day. We should be really bug free soon
<ChrisWoollard> http://paste.ubuntu.com/439568
<flan> Wishful thinking.
<ubuntujenkins> hello flan, true it is wishfull thinking but i like to be positive about these things :)
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<dutchie> night ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> night dutchie
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: run: makeglossaries -L english main
<godbyk> and tell me if it gives any errors
<ChrisWoollard> ok, will do
<flan> G'night, ubuntujenkins.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: and if that's okay, try: makeindex main
<ChrisWoollard> no errors on either
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: you're compiling the lucid-e2 branch, right?  and just running 'make' with no arguments?
<ChrisWoollard> when i run make in the ubuntu-manual directory. It pauses about half way. Then i press enter and it continues
<ChrisWoollard> I believe it is lucid-e2
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard:
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: run 'xelatex main'
<ChrisWoollard> and just and i am running make on its own
<ChrisWoollard> It just stops half way with a ? prompt
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: it should give you an error message of some sort
<godbyk> also, type 'H' and press Enter. it'll give you more info
<ChrisWoollard> The control sequence at the end of the top line of your error message was never \def'ed
<godbyk> so someone misspelled a \command.
<ChrisWoollard> i'll paste again
<ChrisWoollard> http://paste.ubuntu.com/439582
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: \Button should be \button (lowercase).
<ChrisWoollard> is that in listening to audio?
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: default-apps/listening-to-audio-and-music.tex line 63
<ChrisWoollard> i found it.
<ChrisWoollard> i'll try again
<ChrisWoollard> now a different error. now a missing }
<ChrisWoollard> looks like the glossary
<godbyk> apparently people haven't been running 'make' before they commit. :)
<godbyk> (despite my pleas for them to do so.)
<ChrisWoollard> Well, I have to say. none of these errors were mine
<ChrisWoollard> :)
<godbyk> :)
<ChrisWoollard> how do i know which line the error is on?
<godbyk> It says l.000 (where 000 is the line number)
<godbyk> at the beginning of the context lines (just above the ?)
<ChrisWoollard> ok, i think 11
<ChrisWoollard> Is this where you usually bang your head against a wall?
<godbyk> tracking down all the typos that people make?
<ChrisWoollard> yes
<godbyk> it's a bit irksome sometimes, but I've gotten pretty good at it.
<ChrisWoollard> i now have another one
<godbyk> if you want to commit what you've fixed so far, I can try to fix the others for you real quick.
<ChrisWoollard> i just did
<godbyk> then maybe we'll institute a new rule that requires people to run 'make' before committing.
<ChrisWoollard> At least I have now had a crash course on debugging
<rickspencer3> hey guys, when I start getting content for the developer manual, what format should I get the chapters in, and where should I store them?
<ChrisWoollard> fixed another
<ChrisWoollard> and commited
<ChrisWoollard> I can't find the error in the glossary though
<godbyk> gah! damn you. :)
<ChrisWoollard> sorry
<godbyk> uncommitting and recommitting now. :)
<godbyk> remaking. we'll see if they're all fixed now.
<ChrisWoollard> Not touching anything until told to now :)
<godbyk> looks like it compiled cleanly for me here.
<dutchie> for a DVCS, bzr is shocking at handling parallel commits
<dutchie> maybe we're Doing It Wrong
<godbyk> dutchie: yeah, I don't know if I'm using it wrong or what.
<godbyk> dutchie: but there's gotta be a better way.
<dutchie> my answer would be "git", but...
<godbyk> dutchie: I hate seeing the 'removed three revisions'-type messages when someone runs 'bzr 'merge'.
<ChrisWoollard> have you pushed?
<godbyk> nothing to push
<godbyk> I think you got them all
<dutchie> i mean, no offence to the guys who built bzr, but git was written in C and perl by a bunch of kernel hackers
<dutchie> with beards
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> I don't know enough to choose between the various VCSs.
<godbyk> I just wish they'd figure it out and tell me which one I should spend time learning.
<ChrisWoollard> Mine still doesn't build
<godbyk> as it is, I've had to learn enough about cvs, svn, bzr, and git to check code out and in.
<godbyk> run 'bzr status' anything listed?
<ChrisWoollard> apparently there is an issue in the glossary line 11.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: otherwise, run 'make clean', then 'make'
<ChrisWoollard> nothing lised
<dutchie> right, bedtime
<ChrisWoollard> Yay
<dutchie> night all
<ChrisWoollard> it worked
<godbyk> dutchie: g'night.
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: great!
<ChrisWoollard> I hope people don't break it again. That scared me a bit
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-26
<godbyk> ChrisWoollard: I just emailed the list with instructions for committing things. hopefully that'll help resolve most of those problems in the future.
<godbyk> (if anyone reads them and follows them and I haven't mucked them up.)
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<ChrisWoollard> i'll have a look
<ChrisWoollard> That looks good. That was what I was doing so I am fairly confident that will work.
<ChrisWoollard> It is now way past my bed time. So that is exactly where I am going. See you tomorrow.
<godbyk> See ya, ChrisWoollard
<godbyk> I'm doing some editing now.
<godbyk> (Just a heads-up.)
<godbyk> I'm so tired of fixing comma splices!
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> godbyk, could you please help me with some python? :)
<godbyk> humphreybc: sure. let me wrap up just a couple more bugs.
<humphreybc> kay
<humphreybc> the link is the same as before, http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/humphreybc-help
<godbyk> humphreybc: okay. I'm in the pad now.
<humphreybc> kay, see if you can work out what's wrong
<godbyk> I'll chat in the pad.
<ChrisWoollard> Godbyk: I saw all those comma splice bugs. I would have helped, however, you took all the bugs first. :)
<ubuntujenkins> morning all
<Zeike> morning!  I'm just off to bed
<ubuntujenkins> night Zeike
<nisshh> godbyk-android: iv now posted to the list about the glossary/index
<ChrisWoollard> nisshh: There were several errors last night that had to be fixed to get the manual to compile. It was a nightmare.
<ChrisWoollard> not just with the glossary
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: hehe, really? someone else must have edited the glossary, it compiled fine when i did my changes the other day
<ChrisWoollard> It compiles fine until about 10:30 (UTC+1) last night, then it broke. There were about 4 errors in various locations throughout the whole manual. Mainly miss-spellings in tags and the odd missing bracket.
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: ah cool
<ubuntujenkins>  the new ubuntu.com site is up can anyone see the link to the manual website?
<popey> didnt realise there was going to be a link to ubuntu-manual
<ubuntujenkins> popey: ben said there would be in an e-mail also he says it here https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+question/109650 . Not sure where he got the info from, I will have to ask him when i see him
<nisshh> popey: there is no link to ubuntu manual on there yet
<nisshh> not even in the community support section
<popey> I'm not surprised tbh
<nisshh> popey: why is that?
<flan> ubuntujenkins, since you're the one who was handling the screenshot approval process, you should have a better idea about this than I would...
<flan> Would it be easier to approve/reject screenshots by thing being screenshotted or by language?
<flan> For grouping purposes.
<flan> If the system could either tell you that screenshot X has Y candidates awaiting approval in Z languages.
<flan> Or if it could say language X has Y screenshots awaiting approval.
<flan> It can do both, but I'm not sure which one to feature by default.
<flan> (Or whether it'd be a good idea to make that a user preference thing)
<hannie> buttons close/minimize/maximize in the top RIGHT corner of the window in Ubuntu Lucid 10.04
<hannie> In the manual it says: ...top LEFT corner
<hannie> The bug report on this subject is not up-to-date
<nisshh> hannie: the buttons in lucid are on the left not the right
<nisshh> they are only on the right if you dont use one of the new themes or if you change it manually
<hannie> Then why do I have them on the right side?
<hannie> Aha, I am going to change this.
<nisshh> hannie are you using 10.04 and are you using the default theme
<hannie> I am using 10.04
<hannie> My theme is blue, not the default
<nisshh> the default theme is called radiance
<nisshh> hannie, well theres your answer
<nisshh> your not using the default theme
<hannie> But does the position has anything to do with the themes?
<nisshh> so your buttons WILL be on the right
<nisshh> yes
<hannie> ok, then I will change my translation, thanks.
<nisshh> themes are capable of changing the button order
<nisshh> no problem
<hannie> thank you for the tip
<nisshh> :)
<hannie> can you check this for me:
<hannie> the button to the far right of the titlebar will \gls{maximize} the window
<hannie> If the three buttons are in the top-left corner, the third button cannot be to the far right of the titlebar
<hannie> I have changed this (in the translation) into: the third button
<ubuntujenkins> flan: I think both would be best and default to be by language. But there is not much difference in which is default, a user preference to change it would be good
<ubuntujenkins> I tend to do by language as thats the way we were able to pull them from the server in bulk
<flan> Well, the idea with the new design is that every happens in-browser.
<flan> everything*
<flan> So there's no need to pull things locally before looking at them.
<ubuntujenkins> yea I know, I think language is best makes it easier for editors of a langauge
<flan> Will the editors be given access to the server?
<flan> (It kinds seems like that role would be limited to one or two users, in most cases)
<ubuntujenkins> I don't know its a project decision by the team using it. Alot people want to view the translated screenshots and they tend to be the editors. Translators like them to be fully transalted. Which is understandable
<flan> Viewing is different from approving, but I think I'm starting to see the workflow you're thinking of.
<ChrisWoollard> It appears that since www.ubuntu.com has changed there are a few links in the manual that don't work :( It appears that it wasn't just a re-theme.
<dutchie> godbyk: ping
<dutchie> dear CSS, please work. no love, dutchie
<thorwil> ChrisWoollard: perhaps you could grep for all links with ubuntu.com, check them and make a list of the broken ones?
<godbyk> we should grep all the links in the manual and check them all.
<godbyk> just to be safe.
<godbyk> (I'll be back with you guys in a bit. I just got back after repairing my car while it sat in the parking lot of a restaurant. need to clean up, cool off, and get something to drink.)
<thorwil> godbyk: sounds like you had all the fun!
<godbyk> it was such a pain.
<godbyk> I had to have my father come up to help because trying to run around town and get parts and tools using only the bus system would've taken *days*.
<dutchie> godbyk: i've forgotten what I was going to ask you about :(
<dutchie> it was something to do with the bug form
<godbyk> dutchie: awesome! less work for me, then. :)
<godbyk> ack, dutchie! I got this email two hours ago:
<godbyk> On 2010-05-26 15:00z (50 minutes ago), you uploaded a translation
<godbyk> template for ubuntu-manual in Ubuntu Manual lucid-e1 in Launchpad.
<godbyk> The template has now been imported successfully.
<dutchie> i did nothing
<godbyk> What's up with that? The template shouldn't have changed.
<dutchie> who committed then?
<dutchie> this stupid bug form refuses to be spaced out by CSS
<dutchie> hmm
<godbyk> I don't know. I'll look into it in a moment.
<godbyk> (Still going through email.  So many bug reports!)
<godbyk> the nice thing about having so many bug reports at once is that it lets me see patterns of bad behavior that I can address specifically in our style guide.
 * dutchie gives bind a large kick up the backside
<godbyk> dutchie: the last thing committed to lucid-e1 was http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/revision/862 which should have no effect on the translations.
<godbyk> (though he did forget to add the file he intended)
<dutchie> how odd
<dutchie> i hope it doesn't break everything
<trijntje> hi all, LP seems to be weird, changing transations to suggestions. Is this some known issue with the manual?
<godbyk> trijntje: trying to investigate it now
<godbyk> I got an email about two hours ago:
<godbyk> Hello Ubuntu Manual Team,
<godbyk> On 2010-05-26 15:00z (50 minutes ago), you uploaded a translation
<godbyk> template for ubuntu-manual in Ubuntu Manual lucid-e1 in Launchpad.
<godbyk> The template has now been imported successfully.
<godbyk> Thank you,
<godbyk> The Launchpad team
<godbyk> But I see no reason why it would've done that.
<godbyk> There are no new commits to that branch -- especially none with translation stuff.
<trijntje> I noticed it a few day's ago, but I thought maybe the translations where done in the wrong branch or something? It's the one called e2 that should be translated for lucid correct?
<godbyk> trijntje: No, translate the text in lucid-e1.
<godbyk> lucid-e2 is the second edition that we're actively editing right now.
<godbyk> (So any translation stuff in lucid-e2 will be in flux for a while as we fix bugs and change content.)
<trijntje> godbyk, ok thanks, ill spread the word to the dutch translation team
<godbyk> trijntje: thanks!
<trijntje> godbyk, should translations be on hold until this issue with e1 gets sorted out?
<godbyk> trijntje: What's been happening is that it'll keep your translation, but it'll mark it as suggested instead of accepted.
<godbyk> So you can probably continue to translate, you may just have to run through them again, click on the suggestion, and accept it.
<godbyk> (I'm not really sure yet.  I try to leave the translation stuff up to dutchie.) :)
<trijntje> well, ill be here for some hours, ill see it comming by when translations should be on halt
<godbyk> okay.
<thorwil> godbyk: hmm, running generate-title-pages.sh in lucid-e2 gives me "Serif/Sans/Mono font: SQL error near line 1: no such table: locale"
<godbyk> thorwil: Maybe I didn't copy over the sqlite database or something.
<thorwil> well, ubuntu-manual-locale.db is present
<godbyk> thorwil: it appears to work here.
<godbyk> from 'sqlite3 ubuntu-manual-locale.db' and then type '.schema'
<godbyk> it should show a CREATE TABLE ilne
<godbyk> if it does, run 'SELECT * FROM locale;'
<godbyk> and it'll list all the contents of that table.
<thorwil> from: can't read /var/mail/sqlite3 ubuntu-manual-locale.db
 * thorwil is puzzled
<dutchie> i bet it's permissions
<godbyk> might be
<dutchie> 90% of problems on unix are related to permissions
<dutchie> 5% are ownership
<thorwil> my /var/mail is empty
<dutchie> 5% are user error :)
<godbyk> thorwil: you're not running an NFS or something, right?
<godbyk> it's on a local, non-shared file system, right?
<thorwil> no NFS, not even something
<godbyk> okay
<thorwil> yes, all boring local
<dutchie> why in god's name is sqlite3 in /var/mail?
<dutchie> oh, i know
<godbyk> good question.
<godbyk> why?
<thorwil> dutchie: you mean why does it look there?
<dutchie> thorwil: you ran the wrong command :)
<dutchie> thorwil: just "sqlite3 ubuntu-manual-locale.db"
<thorwil> lol
<thorwil> dang, took it literal like a bloody noob :}
<dutchie> if that had been presented in a special typeset way, in a printed book, would you have made that mistake? ;)
<thorwil> godbyk: .schema prints nothing
<dutchie> does bugs.ubuntu-manual.org resolve properly for anyone?
<godbyk> dutchie: worked here
<thorwil> same
<dutchie> hmm
<godbyk> thorwil: them the db might be empty. (or it's not finding the db file.. maybe use the full path)
<dutchie> you using ISP DNS?
<godbyk> I'm using whatever DNS is provided by my web host.
<godbyk> ns1.dreamhost.com if you want to ask the server.
<thorwil> i'm using custom DNS, because the one from my isp delivers a special page on mistyped urls (idiots/bastards)
<dutchie> SERVFAIL
<dutchie> (from ns1.dreamhost.com)
<dutchie> google dns here
 * dutchie loves the google
<dutchie> though my ISP dns won't resolve it either
<thorwil> the Revision, Page and Email fields should be as wide as the multilines and comboboxen
<dutchie> thorwil: um-bugs.joshh.co.uk.
<dutchie> thorwil: http://docs.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/Doc?docid=0ARIi6BtbYjOIZGhiNndmbjlfMDR6aDN4YnBy&hl=en_GB
<dutchie> put suggestions on there
<godbyk> dutchie: $ nslookup
<godbyk> > server ns1.dreamhost.com.
<godbyk> Default server: ns1.dreamhost.com.
<godbyk> Address: 66.33.206.206#53
<godbyk> > bugs.ubuntu-manual.org.
<godbyk> Server:		ns1.dreamhost.com.
<godbyk> Address:	66.33.206.206#53
<godbyk> bugs.ubuntu-manual.org	canonical name = um-bugs.joshh.co.uk.
<godbyk> >
<thorwil> dutchie: looks like i can't edit that page
<dutchie> are you @ubuntu-manual.org?
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> thorsten, not thorwil, though
<dutchie> shouldn't matter
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins had problems with it too last night
<thorwil> dutchie: i forgot i had javascript disabled, sorry
<thorwil> they could show a warning, at least
<dutchie> yeah
<dutchie> ooh, it works now
<thorwil> godbyk: no luck. the updated templates are in place, so could you run generate and commit the whole bunch?
<godbyk> thorwil: you want me to just run the generate script and commit the generated svgs?
<thorwil> godbyk: yes, i wouldn't do much different from that
<thorwil> godbyk: though wait
<godbyk> thorwil: 'kay. just let me know when.
<thorwil> godbyk: the Second Edition string needs a solution, too
<godbyk> ah, true.
<godbyk> and we have no translations for that yet.
<thorwil> then the whole operations needs to be postponed
<godbyk> fair enough
<dutchie> launchpadlib is soo slooow
<godbyk> Has Ilya been around lately? Seems like I haven't seen him for quite a while.
<godbyk> I need to pester him about some stuff.
<dutchie> please let the head revision for e2 be 84
<dutchie> yes \o/
<dutchie> it works
 * dutchie uploads
<KerryHatcher> Hello everyone!
<c7p> KerryHatcher: hi
<ubuntujenkins> evening all
<ubuntujenkins> hello KerryHatcher
<ubuntujenkins> dutchie: the bug form has a "Oh noes! 500 error!" just in case you did not know
<c7p> ChrisWoollard: Could you tell me the the #585826 bug's right links?
<dutchie> ubuntujenkins: i know
<ubuntujenkins> ok cool
<ChrisWoollard> c7p: I think i just fixed all the urls
<ubuntujenkins> the wetab is out on the 19th of september thats what amazon.de says
<ubuntujenkins> !ping
<manualbot> pong
<ubuntujenkins>  #123456
<ubuntujenkins> bug #123456
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 123456 in xine-lib "podcast crashes amarok" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123456
 * ubuntujenkins manual bot is awake
<c7p> ChrisWoollard: where can i find these urls ? I'm asking because the greek manual (e1) will be released soon so these urls should be corrected.
<ChrisWoollard> Bear with me
<ChrisWoollard> i'll find them
<ChrisWoollard> http://www.ubuntu.com/project/derivatives
<ChrisWoollard> http://www.ubuntu.com/server
<ChrisWoollard> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community
<ChrisWoollard> Those are the new links
<ChrisWoollard> Is that ok?
<c7p> thank you :)
<c7p> yap fine
<ChrisWoollard> I will double check later if there are any more. But I have to go do a radio show now. I have pasted those urls into bug #585826 as well.
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 585826 in ubuntu-manual "wrong urls" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/585826
<ubuntujenkins> how is everyone today?
<dutchie> wahey, one bug form up again
<dutchie> now I just need to get godbyk/daker to help get it looking pretty with some CSS
<godbyk> don't look at me!
<godbyk> my css skills are fairly elementary.
<dutchie> it's your server hosting the stylesheet :)
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> fair enough
<c7p> godbyk is the person for every job :D hehe
<c7p> night all
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<KerryHatcher> Have a wonderful evening everyone!
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-27
<hannie> What does \gls mean?
<hannie> Should I translate things like: \gls{panel}?
<hannie> What does \gls mean?
<hannie> Should I translate things like: \gls{panel} into \gls{paneel}?
<hannie> I think gls means glossary
<nisshh> hannie: yes \gls is glossary
<hannie> So I should translate {panel}
<nisshh> hannie: i think you can translate the text INSIDE the command but NOT the command itself
<hannie> ok, is that the same with ss:(English text} where ss is screenshot (not to be translated?
<hannie> ss: (no smiley!) but screenshot
<nisshh> hannie: yea sorry thats right
<nisshh> hannie: dont translate ANY tex commands
<hannie> I think I am getting the picture. I do NOT translate \gls, ss, ch etc. But I DO translate text between {}
<hannie> Example: \newglossaryentry{Ethernet port} becomes \newglossaryentry{Ethernet-poort}
<hannie> Or should it be: \newglossaryentry{Ethernet port}{name={Ethernet-poort}
<nisshh> hannie: im not the best person to ask about translations
<nisshh> godbyk: ^^^^
<ChrisWoollard> Have you checked the style guide?
<nisshh> ChrisWoollard: is there translator stuff in there>
<nisshh> ?
<hannie> It is rather a matter of syntax, not style
<hannie> What I need to know is: what happens with the text between {} after \newglossaryentry? Is this the entry of the English or the Dutch glossary?
<nisshh> thats the name of the actual glossary entry, i im pretty sure you need to translate that
<hannie> ay, ay, ay, I am not so sure. After \newglossaryentry{text} you get {name={text}, description={text}}.
<hannie> I DO translate {text} 2 and 3, but I am not sure about {text} 1
<thorwil> i would expect there to be one label that shouldn't be translated
<hannie> And that is \newglossaryentry{text}?
<hannie> Perhaps it's a good idea to send an email about this to the ubuntu-manual mailing list. I think I will try that.
<ubuntujenkins>  hannie look at /topic it has the stlye guide with lots of information for translators
<hannie> I tried this: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/topic
<hannie> Where do I type /topic?
<ubuntujenkins> type "/topic" in the irc window
<ubuntujenkins> got it hannie ?
<hannie> This doesn't work: /topic style guide
<hannie> I am sorry, I am a beginner here
<ubuntujenkins> type just "/topic"
<ubuntujenkins> no problem
<ubuntujenkins> http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf is what you want
<hannie> Thanks
<hannie> When I type /topic I get a message: you are not allowed to change the subject
<ubuntujenkins> strange i get http://paste.ubuntu.com/440321/
<hannie> I have downloaded the style-guide.pdf file. I am going to read it. Thanks for the tip
<hannie> Style-guide.pdf says:  \newglossaryentry{â¨keywordâ©}{name={â¨termâ©}, description={â¨definitionâ©} where (term) and (definition) are in RED. These should be translated, NOT (keyword), which is in BLACK.
<hannie> Thank you all for helping me out :)
<nisshh> hannie: no prob, thanks for persevering through my lame translation knowledge
<hannie> ;)
<ChrisWoollard> Hannie: Sorry for not responding further. I have had network problems.
<hannie> ok, I have downloaded the style-guide.pdf file
<ChrisWoollard> I hope it helped
<hannie> There is a lot of reading there :(
<hannie> But thanks anyway
<rickspencer3> humphreybc, hey, so I should use LaTeX to start the developer's manual, right?
<nisshh> rickspencer3: i didnt know it was you doing the dev manual :)
<rickspencer3> nisshh, well, I'm "editor" and I have a few chapters
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/DeveloperManual
<nisshh> rickspencer3: cool, i may contribute to it too
<rickspencer3> nisshh, http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-developers-manual
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-developer-manual
<humphreybc> rickspencer3: I'm about to head to sleep, it's pretty late here. Have a chat with godbyk, he should be around today
<humphreybc> LaTeX should be good though yeah
<rickspencer3> thanks dude
<rickspencer3> I want to make the first commit today or tonight
<rickspencer3> sleep well!
<humphreybc> godbyk's our latex guy so he'll be able to hook you up with some sweet templates etc
<nisshh> rickspencer3: latex kicks-ass, its awesome for this sort of thing
<rickspencer3> I've never used it
<rickspencer3> I installed a Lyx, thought that might help me get started
<rickspencer3> is the manual in LaTeX format?
<rickspencer3> Can I just copy from that?
<ubuntujenkins> its really easy to learn to write in latex
<ubuntujenkins> yep manual is in latex
<ubuntujenkins> I am not sure on exactly what stuff you would need to copy from the manual.
<nisshh> you would probably have to modify whatever you copy, since the dev manual will probably be structured differently
<ChrisWoollard> That looks really cool.
<ChrisWoollard> the developers manual that is.
<godbyk> home again, home again, jiggity jig.
 * vish silently loosens a few more bolts in godbyk's cars :p
<godbyk> lol
<godbyk> It did manage to get me to the grocery store and back last night.
<daker> hey @all
<flan> Hi, daker.
<daker> wassup ?
<ubuntujenkins>  the sky :P
<daker> yeah :p
 * ubuntujenkins goes back to revision
<daker> good luck :)
<ubuntujenkins> thanks
<daker> Waw the new website is looking great
<daker> ubuntu.com
<c7p> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> c7p: pong
<c7p> is there anything new about the greek manual :)
<godbyk> c7p: not yet. sorry. I've been busy with work and car repair the past couple days.
<godbyk> I'll try to work on it a bit later tonight, though.
<c7p> godbyk: ok np :) hope you finish it soon
<godbyk> c7p: We'll get there, don't worry!  The first one always takes a bit longer. :)
<c7p> godbyk: hehe I know, we had previous experience with index, fonts .. etc!
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> I was bored in a lecture and was thinking about the ubuntu-manual program there are a few issues with the current idea
<godbyk> cool. fire away!
<ubuntujenkins> we said we would download them from the website but we need to store them in /usr/share/doc/ubuntu-manual. the permissons are root only. It is rather silly to need root permissions to download a pdf
 * ubuntujenkins is a slow typer
<ubuntujenkins> so I am thinking of packaging each one. but we then have to work out how easy it is to get stuff in universe after release
<ubuntujenkins> also it the user had no interent and got the package at work or an internet cafe. they would then be anoyed that they have to somehow get internet again.
<godbyk> true.
<godbyk> we could also store it in their homedir.
<ubuntujenkins> but then it has to be downloaded for every user on the pc
<godbyk> (in, say, ~/.local/share/ubuntu-manual/)
<godbyk> true
<ubuntujenkins> and ~/.local/share/ubuntu-manual/) its not the convetionally correct way to do it. I think convetions are supposed to be stuck to
<godbyk> well, there is some convention (XDG directories) and we'd follow that convention if we put it in someone's home directory.
<ubuntujenkins> I am just asking in #ubuntu-motu about getting stuff in universe after release
<godbyk> 'kay.
<ubuntujenkins> I did some very rough sketches of the old work flow, which ment i found this problem
<godbyk> right
<ubuntujenkins> do the team know its the doc/manual/learning meeting on monday 31st 16.00 utc?
<godbyk> I don't know if anyone's paid attention to that.
<godbyk> I may be in a meeting IRL at that time; I'm not sure yet.
<godbyk> I'll attend if I can, though.
<ChrisWoollard> I saw the email
<ubuntujenkins> IRL?
<godbyk> in real life.
<ubuntujenkins> ok, i can make it as its a bank holiday for me
<godbyk> (I think it's one of those old-school acronyms that you kids don't use anymore. :-))
<godbyk> Ooh, good point. It's a federal holiday here, too, so maybe I won't have that meeting.
 * ubuntujenkins hmm #ubuntu-motu is quite
<ubuntujenkins> 83307
 * ubuntujenkins ops not empathy
<ubuntujenkins> night all
<ChrisWoollard> It felt like a very quiet evening here today.
<ChrisWoollard> Goodnight
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-28
<humphreybc> rickspencer3: Rick, did you talk to Kevin?
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  I got a relpy from #ubuntu-motu <ubuntujenkins> hello I am thinking about the ubuntu manual team program which we would like to include in 10.10
<ubuntujenkins> <ubuntujenkins> sorry hit enter too early. But not all the translations would be finished by release day, how hard is it to get stuff in universe after release?<ScottK> ubuntujenkins: Generally it's not done.
<ubuntujenkins> ChrisWoollard: ping
<ChrisWoollard> hello
<ChrisWoollard> ubuntujenkins: pong
<ubuntujenkins> with bug #586127, I thionk mutliverse enabled by default depens on which location you are instaiiling it as
<manualbot> Launchpad bug 586127 in ubuntu-manual "multiverse enabled by default" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/586127
<ubuntujenkins> I think for the uk, usa australia multivers is enables
<ChrisWoollard> I haven't updated anything yet, just tested myself.
<ChrisWoollard> in the uk
<ChrisWoollard> That makes things tricky
<ubuntujenkins> It might be work installing in a vm and trying other countries. when you choose your location. I think we left multivese not being disabled in the manual for that reason
<ChrisWoollard> I will try that. It was a vm I was testing with anyway.
<ubuntujenkins> cool just saw it and thought i would mention it, just asking in a larger channel to see if anyone else knows
<ubuntujenkins> !multiverse
<manualbot> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedSources for the recommended way to set up your repositories
<ChrisWoollard> that inplies that multiverse is on by defaut
<ChrisWoollard> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu
<ChrisWoollard> gives the answer
<ChrisWoollard> Note: In Ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty), the main, universe, restricted and multiverse repositories are enabled by default.
<ChrisWoollard> I presume that it means 9.04 and above
<popey> it does
<humphreybc> once again
<humphreybc> popey swoops in
<humphreybc> randomly.
<ubuntujenkins> hey humphreybc, I rasied an issue with kevin about our program we want in multiverse and would like to know your thoughts. I will just find the log
<humphreybc> what program? quickshot?
<ubuntujenkins> nope the manual program, to get the pdf in maveric log here at the end http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/27/%23ubuntu-manual.txt
<humphreybc> oh right
<humphreybc> i'll have a read
<ubuntujenkins> or http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/27/%23ubuntu-manual.html for coulors
<humphreybc> where do you start talking?
<ubuntujenkins> 22.26
<ubuntujenkins> its very near the end
<humphreybc> right
<humphreybc> yes I see the dilemma
<ubuntujenkins> I asked in #ubuntu-motu and getting stuff in after release is "ubuntujenkins: Generally it's not done."
<humphreybc> after release for Lucid?
<humphreybc> oh right
<ubuntujenkins> no maverick
<humphreybc> coz our manual will be out after release
<humphreybc> bah don't worry about that
<humphreybc> we'll sort something out
<humphreybc> I would probably put it in the home directory, which would be okay in most cases except for when you want to have it across large deployments like schools with multiple users.
<humphreybc> maybe we could have a checkbox that says something like "Install for all users?"
<humphreybc> if that's checked, it goes in the usr/share or wherever and you get prompted for sudo. if not, then just into home directory.
<humphreybc> but by default we should probably avoid prompting them for their password, for what's ultimately just downloading a file
<ubuntujenkins> hmm, I now think the best way to do it is to package each language invdiually and a seperate  program that opens the correct language one depending on what you are logged in as. If it goes in home it woll have to be .ubuntu-manual  not ubuntu-manual. The check box idea may work
<humphreybc> I'll ask mpt when I see him next
<ubuntujenkins> cool thanks
<ubuntujenkins> I would like a good clean solution
<humphreybc> Packaging each language is just another thing for us to do
<humphreybc> It'd be better to pull it from the same source as if they were to get it from our site
<humphreybc> one less place to update
<ubuntujenkins> packageing each one is easy tbh
<ubuntujenkins> I see your point
<humphreybc> yeah but if you get hit by a bus that means someone else has to figure it out :P
<humphreybc> I think doing a wget for them would be the easiest, and I'll talk to mpt about defaults and checkboxes
<humphreybc> he should be on IRC now, but he's not. Hmm.
<ubuntujenkins> I will try and document my stuff this summer that wasy we are covered for me being hit by a bus :P
<humphreybc> haha
<humphreybc> oh, he is online
<humphreybc> serves me right for not scrolling down to "m" in my buddy list
<humphreybc> d'oh
<popey> * popey is now known as mpopey
<humphreybc> ha. ha. ha.
<humphreybc> also, ubuntujenkins, flan, i'm going to pick your brains for the next 6 months while I work on this: https://code.launchpad.net/~humphreybc/about-ubuntu/about-ubuntu
<ubuntujenkins> what is it?
<humphreybc> a replacement for the current "About Ubuntu" window
<ubuntujenkins> ok cool. What! the current "about ubuntu" gives me yelp
 * popey blames humphreybc because he is now listening to MGMT
<ubuntujenkins> mgmt rule
<humphreybc> popey: hahaha!
<humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: i know! haha
<ubuntujenkins> I like your idea it should tell you system spec, os version numbers etc.
<humphreybc> yeah, i have some other cool ideas for it too
<humphreybc> it's going to tie in with an interactive "tutorial" type thing to learn your new os
<humphreybc> but that's for the dx team to work on, Ivanka and I are just going to write up specs and do some mockups :)
<ubuntujenkins> if you find a quicker way of working out someones hardware than lshw please let me know. Its one of the slowest parts of quickshot. I need a good way to work out somones graphics driver
<humphreybc> sure thing
<ubuntujenkins> I need to look into the system display chnage thing
<ubuntujenkins> do you know anyone who is a motu humphreybc ?
<humphreybc> maybe, i'm not sure. popey will for sure.
<humphreybc> just ask rick spencer :)
<popey> know what?
<humphreybc> a motu
<popey> for what?
<humphreybc> Luke wants to pester them and ask questions about packaging stuff in the multiverse
<popey> why multiverse and not universe?
<ubuntujenkins> the other problem is there is a long que to get stuff in we need to get it approved quickly . I plan to have a beta in 26 days
<humphreybc> popey: dunno, either or I guess
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<humphreybc> universe probably
<popey> multiverse is only used for stuff which is questionable
<ubuntujenkins> ben means universe. I know what to do it s how to get it approved wuicker
<popey> like dodgy codecs
<ubuntujenkins> *quicker
<popey> ask in #ubuntu-motu
<popey> is the easiest way
<popey> well, the easiest is speak to dholbach or james_w :)
<humphreybc> don't worry about getting it into the universe in time, we'll figure that out closer to the time
<ubuntujenkins> ok thanks popey
<ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: are you at the meeting on monday?
<humphreybc> which meeting is this?
<ubuntujenkins> docs/manual/learning meeting
<humphreybc> no, it's at 4am here
<ubuntujenkins> ok thought you may stay up :)
<ubuntujenkins> what else are you think to include in the about widow humphreybc ?
<humphreybc> nah
<humphreybc> not sure yet, still thinking of fun stuff
<humphreybc> maybe a lighthearted game of ping pong between Stephen Fry and Steve Jobs
<ubuntujenkins> lol
<humphreybc> or perhaps a short, 10 second clip of the reaction when Jack Black and Jack White come face to face
<ubuntujenkins> hehe, have you got any exams?
<humphreybc> yeah, in a couple of weeks
<ubuntujenkins> cool, I finish 15/6/2010 I would like to have a skype with you and kevin after then if we are not all busy. discuss the program etc
<humphreybc> sure thang
<humphreybc> thaaaaaaaaaang
<ubuntujenkins> I will try and mail some sketches to you this week. I got bored in lectures so did some very rough ones
<humphreybc> mintbum
<humphreybc> anyone remember the name of that opportunistic developers IRC room that Jono started?
<ubuntujenkins> yep I am in it #ubuntu-app-devel
<humphreybc> danke
<ubuntujenkins> they are very helpful but can take a while to get back to you, so don't ask stuff if your about to go to bed.
<humphreybc> heh
 * ubuntujenkins hopes to meet popey at oggcamp next year
<popey> heh
<popey> where do you live in the uk ubuntujenkins ?
<ubuntujenkins> I am in loughborough for a few more weeks but then back to banbury
<ubuntujenkins> I wanted to come to the london museum trip but tickets were expensive for the train
<popey> yeah, i can imagine
<popey> damnit I need a mini displayport to DVI adapter
<popey> 12 quid from amazon
<popey> i want one _now_
 * popey decides to be fickle and not want one
<ubuntujenkins> thats your fault for having a mac :P
<popey> well, yes
<popey> is there a kindle version of the ubuntu manual?
<humphreybc> a kindle version?
<humphreybc> a KINDLE version?
<popey> ya
<popey> y'know the manual being a _book_
<humphreybc> what do you think we are, trying to mass distribute it to everyone who can afford kindles?! :P
<popey> for reading on an _e_ book reader :)
<humphreybc> no, there isn't. I just thought kindles read bog standard PDFs
<popey> they can
<humphreybc> he. Loughborough. Banbury.
<humphreybc> what hilarious names
 * popey wonders if humphreybc can pronounce Loughborough
<popey> Luff-bruh
<popey> or Luff-buruh
<ubuntujenkins> lufbra is the nest way
<humphreybc> They sound like something off Monty Python. "Mr Banbury, could you please fetch a cup of tea for my lady." "I most certainly will not you overwhelmingly pretentious old git!"
 * ubuntujenkins goes back to revision
<popey> the problem with pdf on kindle is you cant resize text
<humphreybc> zoom?
<popey> that too
<humphreybc> that's a problem?
<popey> http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200140600
<popey> yes
<popey> basically need a .mobi file
<humphreybc> that's most unfortunate
 * popey will generate one
 * popey gets the pdf
<popey> humphreybc: is there an image i can use as the cover for the pdf?
<humphreybc> let me have a look in the branch
<humphreybc> thorwil's probably having a late morning snack.
<humphreybc> I can give you an SVG
<popey> I'll use the first page, no worries
<humphreybc> okay
<popey> hmm
<popey> looks like arse on my machine (windows)
<humphreybc> thorwil: poke
<popey> don't suppose youc ould screencrab the first page could you?
<humphreybc> I'll screengrab the title page for you
<humphreybc> even better!
<thorwil> hmm?
<humphreybc> or you could just ask thorwil for a png of it
<popey> bah, stupid software crashing
<popey> will have to play with this later
<thorwil> first edition title page, english, letter format?
<popey> dont worry for now
<thorwil> ok
<humphreybc> probably A4
<humphreybc> daker: hey, how's it going?
<humphreybc> I have a question for ye
<humphreybc> how easy is it for us to change the website template
<humphreybc> say, move to a new design
<daker> not very hard :)
<humphreybc> brillo
<humphreybc> if I did a new design in the next couple of weeks, you wouldn't mind changing it?
<humphreybc> I think the current one is a bit too restrictive
<humphreybc> and I want to use more of the new Ubuntu pallete
<daker> Great i can change it :)
<humphreybc> yay! you're the best :D
<daker> the new ubuntu website is looking great
<humphreybc> yeah, the design is pretty
<humphreybc> the implementation is pretty crap though, they out-sourced it to a drupal company
<daker> :D
<daker> humphreybc, u should redesign pages & 404
<humphreybc> yeah i'll do lots of pages for ya this time
<daker> u should also separate things (header, content & footer)
<humphreybc> you want me to slice it up for you?
<daker> the psd should be very clean
<humphreybc> righto. I recently discovered layer folders
<humphreybc> so yeah, it will be :)
<daker> no i will slice it
<semioticrobotic> anyone know how I can modify my nickserv registration settings?
<popey> semioticrobotic: ask in #freenode
<semioticrobotic> thanks popey.  will do.
<daker> semioticrobotic, type " /msg NickServ help "
<semioticrobotic> and just like that, it's done.  thanks to popey and darker
<daker> you are welcome
<godbyk> popey, humphreybc: the whole ebook thing is on my radar; I've just been busy with more pressing matters. :)
<ubuntujenkins>  hey godbyk
<godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins
<ubuntujenkins> how are you?
<godbyk> not too bad.  keeping rather busy.
<godbyk> how about you?
<ubuntujenkins> busy with revision. Can't wait to get started on quickshot and the manual program
<godbyk> I hear ya there.
<godbyk> I've been trying to help with the editing a bit here and there. Mostly arguing about bug reports that are invalid. :)
<godbyk> I have some work to do for the translations, too.
<godbyk> brb. gonna find something for lunch.
<ubuntujenkins> I have not read most of the bug reports, not very good at grammar etc
<ubuntujenkins> hey daker
<daker> hey ubuntujenkins :)
<godbyk> back with food now.
<godbyk> hey, daker. how are you?
<daker> godbyk, where is my part of food ?
<godbyk> it's right here. you just have to come pick it up! :)
<daker> hhhhhh
 * dutchie has finished school and passed his driving test
<dutchie> now I have all the time in the world to devote to the UMP!
<godbyk> awesome!
<dutchie> apart from when I have exams :(
<ubuntujenkins> yey for passing your driving test dutchie
 * ubuntujenkins also has exams
<dutchie> only 2 minors, on my first attempt
<dutchie> quite pleased with that
<godbyk> cool.
<daker> godbyk, <humphreybc> if I did a new design in the next couple of weeks, you wouldn't mind changing it?
<daker> <humphreybc> I think the current one is a bit too restrictive
<daker> <humphreybc> and I want to use more of the new Ubuntu pallete
<godbyk> I didn't have to drive for mine; just take the written exam.  (passed it the first time, though.)
<ubuntujenkins> thats good :)
<ubuntujenkins> to dutchie ^
<dutchie> godbyk: you don't have to do a practical driving test in the US?
<godbyk> I think it may be a state-by-state thing.  In Iowa, they have a lottery drawing each month.  And if the number they pull out is the day you were born, then you have to drive.  Kind of a spot-check.
<dutchie> that seems very silly to me
<ubuntujenkins> and me
<godbyk> Also, your driving instructor can require that you take the practical driving test before you get your license, too.
<dutchie> so they do check you've actually had lessons?
<godbyk> Well, we already had to take a course on driving, which involved lots of driving around with an instructor.
<godbyk> Oh, yes.
<godbyk> You have to have had lessons first.
<dutchie> that's alright then
<godbyk> It seems to work fairly well.
<dutchie> seemed initially like you could just turn up, do the theory test, and leave with a driving licence never having driven a car
<dutchie> which would be insane
<dutchie> my inbox has got utterly out of hand :(
<godbyk> Well, there's a bit more to it.
<godbyk> So first, you have to get a driving permit.
<godbyk> This allows you to drive if an adult is sitting next to you in the car (and you're restricted to driving during daylight hours or something, too).
<godbyk> Then you take the driving course where you learn the rules of the road, drive around with the instructor, etc., etc.
<godbyk> Once you've successfully passed the driving course, you can take the exam.
<godbyk> You may have to drive with someone as part of your exam if you're number was pulled that month or if your instructor required it.
<godbyk> If you pass both the written exam and the practical driving test, then you get your license.
<godbyk> Then you have to renew your license every so often.
<dutchie> ah
<godbyk> (If you're late renewing your license, you have to take the written exam and may have to drive, too.)
<godbyk> But all of that is for the state of Iowa.  It varies from state to state.
<dutchie> over here, you apply for a provisional licence, which lets you drive if a licence holder with you (except not on motorways)
<dutchie> you then have to take a theory test, which you have to pass before taking a practical test
<dutchie> if you pass that, you get a full licence
<dutchie> i don't think you have to renew it until you're about 65 or something
<ubuntujenkins> sound right to me
<dutchie> you have to apply for a new photocard every 10 years or so iirc
<ubuntujenkins> o yea so you do
<godbyk> looks like mine lasts 5 years.
<dutchie> i would look at the expiry date on mine, but the examiner took it off me to replace with a nice pink one :)
<thorwil> hmm. http://www.amazon.com/Official-Ubuntu-Book-Benjamin-Mako/dp/0137081308/
<Zeike> I've never heard of that before
<popey> godbyk: cool
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-29
<ubuntujenkins> morning
<thorwil> morning!
<ubuntujenkins> hey thorwil
 * thorwil studies http://browsersize.googlelabs.com/
<nisshh> thorwil: you know how you made that icon for me last week? well that was for my app on launchpad, do you mind if i put you in the credits under artwork?
<thorwil> nisshh: thanks, but don't bother. no credits for a quick job without even knowing the context ;
<nisshh> thorwil: fair enough, just thought id ask :)
<thorwil> nisshh: what does you app do, actually?
<nisshh> thorwil: https://edge.launchpad.net/pytask
<nisshh> read the description
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: have you got a ppa yet?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: no, the next release will be in one though
<nisshh> having problems with quickly and ppa's right now, will be good to go soon
<ubuntujenkins> do you want a hand with the ppa?
<nisshh> next release = sometime in june
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: nah, its cool
<thorwil> cool
<ubuntujenkins> cool, give us a shout if you do :)
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: no probs
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: will do, i mean :)
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: the latest code in the trunk works great now, you can try it if you like
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: i will give it a go
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: cool, when you do, let me know what you think
<ubuntujenkins> will do
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/441300/
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: oh, crap sorry would have told you first, you need to install these packages first:
<ubuntujenkins> no problem
<nisshh> desktopcouch, python-desktopcouch and python-desktopcouch-records should be all you need
<ubuntujenkins> I have them already
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: ah, i know, you need quickly-widgets too
<nisshh> forgot that one
<ubuntujenkins> ok installed it and i now get http://paste.ubuntu.com/441303/
<nisshh> hmmm, gimme a minute
<ubuntujenkins> sure :)
<nisshh> are you using the setup.py file to install?
<ubuntujenkins> i ran "sudo python setup.py install"
<nisshh> ok
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: which revision did you grab of lp?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: because i just did some recent fixes, the latest is r95
<ubuntujenkins> i have just pulled 95
<ubuntujenkins> can i unstall the old one? or just install over it
<nisshh> i would uninstall the old one
<ubuntujenkins> how?
<nisshh> synaptic -> origin -> local -> pytask
<nisshh> do a complete removal
<ubuntujenkins> its not in synaptic, its not a package
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: oops i forgot
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yea, i get the same error, but only when i use the setup.py file
<nisshh> if i build a deb its fine
<nisshh> give me a minute
<nisshh> i think i might know whats wrong
<nisshh> its a problem with the setup.py file itself
<ubuntujenkins> I like to find strange bugs :P
<nisshh> hehe, i think its because distutils.auto doesnt like .desktop.in files, only .desktop files
<ubuntujenkins> what do i run to make a package?
<nisshh> well if you have the .quickly file and quickly installed you can run quickly package to create deb package
<nisshh> but hangon i might have something here
 * ubuntujenkins like quickly
<nisshh> cool
<nisshh> hmmmm, i cant work it out
<nisshh> i think i know why its doing it
<nisshh> but its not doing what i want it to, hehe
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: are you able to just generate your own deb file for now?
<ubuntujenkins> quickly packages doesn't work as there is no debian folder.
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: it should generate one
<nisshh> its quickly package without the 's' too
<nisshh> hang on a sec
<ubuntujenkins> it made one this time but i had to run debuild to make the package
<nisshh> right ok
<nisshh> ill push r96 with its own debian directory
<ubuntujenkins> theres also a permisson error on the build folder in the branch
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: i know i got that too its right protected for some reason
<nisshh> write protected i mean
<ubuntujenkins> hmm i can buld a source package for a ppa but not a package
<ubuntujenkins> done it there was a problem with the permsions on po and pytask.desktop.in
<ubuntujenkins> this looks much better tahn the first release
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yea, it is, how did you resolve the permissions error?
<ubuntujenkins> sudo chmod -R oug+rwx *
<ubuntujenkins> I think the "complete?"  colum should be called "status"
<ubuntujenkins> or not
<ubuntujenkins> but it shoul be narower
<ubuntujenkins> *should, *narrower
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yea i cant (or dont know how?) control the width of columns yet
<ubuntujenkins> are you using glade?
<nisshh> sort of, quickly uses gtkbuilder and the glade app for editing
<ubuntujenkins> hmm at a glance i can't work it out in glade.
<ubuntujenkins> I like the calender that apears when you want a date
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: yea, rick spencer helped me with two new column types
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: if you run: sudo python setup.py clean, it should remove the old version
<nisshh> ill have a chat to rick if he comes on a bit later about these errors, since quickly generated the files i have no idea why they arent working
<ubuntujenkins> thansk, I am going to do some more revision. Have fun with it. I think setting contexts or projects would be a good colum
<nisshh> thanks for trying it out, and yes a projects column is in the works
<nisshh> if you look on lp, 0.4 will have launchpadlib integration
<ubuntujenkins> no problem ;)
<nisshh> that is, it will if i ever get these errors fixed :)
<hannie> I have read the style-guide, but I cannot find \acronym{text}
<hannie> In Duth we write cd, not CD, so is it \acronym{cd} or \acronym{CD} in the translation?
<hannie> *Dutch
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping ^
<nisshh> hannie: if you use cd instead of CD, the glossary entry for Live CD wont work because there will then be no reference to Live CD in the manual
<nisshh> same with the index i thinkk
<hannie> Ok, I am glad you answered this for me.
<nisshh> no probs
<hannie> btw, the style-guide is very useful. Thanks to  Kevin Godby
<nisshh> yea, hes a frigging genious
<nisshh> genius
<nisshh> :)
<hannie> Are you a programmer?
<nisshh> yes
<nisshh> python
<nisshh> not my day job though
<nisshh> more like beloved hobby
<hannie> That's how it always begins
<nisshh> hehe
<hannie> see you, I am going to translate again
<nisshh> cya
<thorwil> godbyk: seen http://www.stixfonts.org/ ?
<godbyk> thorwil: no small caps.. that's a bummer.
<c7p> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> Hey, c7p
<godbyk> Ilya emailed me back about the license stuff.
<godbyk> Let me forward it to you.
<c7p> godbyk: ok
<godbyk> Basically, we need to use English license for this first edition. We're waiting on the Creative Commons people to get their act together with the translated licenses.
<c7p> godbyk: no problem, we can use the license in english and before it, there can be the link of the license in greek. So for lucid-e1 we do this.
<godbyk> If you want to write a paragraph that gives a brief explanation and a link to the Greek version, we can add that in pretty easily.
<godbyk> (We've been waiting on the CC lawyers for a while. I hope they get things sorted in time for the next edition.)
<c7p> Sure. Can i fix the bug with the urls that I was telling you (on a previous mail) ?
<godbyk> Sure, go ahead.
<c7p> godbyk: lol, now I see the ps xD I promise not pinging you from now on frequently :P
<godbyk> c7p: lol. no worries. that was just to get a quick response from Ilya. :)
<godbyk> I've been having to sit in meetings and do stuff on campus a lot more due to this new job, though.  So if you don't get a quick response from me, I'm either away from my computer or sleeping.  But I try to eventually get back to everyone. :)
<c7p> godbyk: don't worry I think everyone understands the situation. It must be tiring ..! Have you thought of taking one-week-vacation (I'm talking about the project)?
<godbyk> Well, I will be taking a week off at the end of June/beginning of July for a LaTeX conference.  (Yeah, that's my idea of a vacation!) :)
<c7p> if that calm you why not
<godbyk> I think it's going to be fun. And I'll probably learn a lot.
<godbyk> You can see some of the presentations they'll have: http://tug.org/tug2010/program.html
<godbyk> A few of them will be handy and relevant to the stuff we do with our manual.
<c7p> 2^5 anniversary hehe. I can't understand every single one presentation purpose, but the whole conference concept is exiting. I hope you have a great time
#ubuntu-manual 2010-05-30
<ChrisWoollard> Yay, I like Ubuntu forums. They just wished me happy birhtday.
<c7p> if it's your birthday, best wishes Chris :D
<c7p> night all
<ChrisWoollard> it is :)
<ChrisWoollard> thanks
<c7p> have a nice day ;)
<c7p> bye
<humphreybc> someone's torrenting our manual, and it has 21 seeders!
<humphreybc> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5550350/Getting_Started_with_Ubuntu_10.04
<humphreybc> when you search "ubuntu" on the pirate bay, it's the 5th result if organized by number of seeders
<godbyk> interesting.
<godbyk> I figured as small as it was, it wasn't worth torrenting.
<humphreybc> yeah
 * ubuntujenkins wonders why 5mb is worth torrenting
<humphreybc> godbyk, flan!
<Surst1> hey ho :)
<humphreybc> hey
<Surst1> @humphreybc, i've got two question about the style of the manual
<manualbot> Surst1: Error: "humphreybc," is not a valid command.
<humphreybc> Surst1: sure
<Surst1> don't know if you remember, last time i told you, that the \application-command uses wrong quotation-marks
<Surst1> i was wrong, it's the \window-command
<humphreybc> right
<Surst1> is it possible to fix it?
<humphreybc> you'll have to talk to godbyk
<Surst1> ok, I will
<Surst1> the second: is there a reason, why the digits in ethX are in mathematical-mode, for example eth$0$?
<Surst1> doesn't look good, in my opinion
<humphreybc> not sure, another one to ask godbyk
<Surst1> ok :)
<Surst1> thank you so far, going to write an E-Mail^^
<humphreybc> okay
<Surst1> bye
<nisshh> humphreybc: i have an idea
<humphreybc> nisshh: an idea to help me with f**king python?
<nisshh> humphreybc: no, hehe, its to do with how much i contribute (or will be) since my chapter is getting taken out
<nisshh> of the manual
<humphreybc> oh rihgt
<nisshh> humphreybc: i assume its still getting taken out for maverick?
<humphreybc> the terminal stuff, right?
<nisshh> yes, chapter 6
<nisshh> humphreybc: well, iv been thinking really hard about ways in which i can contribute, currently iv chosen to be the "maintainer" of the glossary and index
<nisshh> but id like to do more
<nisshh> since the glossary and index take barely any time at all
<humphreybc> sure
<nisshh> now, i dont know any other languages so thats out of the question
<nisshh> i have no grammatical skills to speak of so editing is not for me either
<nisshh> BUT, i have been watching what godbyk has been doing with latex, and iv noticed that he is ALWAYS busy
<humphreybc> he is always busy
<nisshh> maybe i could learn from godbyk, and become proficient with latex
<nisshh> that way, godbyk would not always be swamped by latex related stuff
<humphreybc> latex is okay, tex is what he writes in
<humphreybc> you could always ask :)
<nisshh> yes, tex
<humphreybc> or maybe do all the easy tasks that he does, like bug triaging and fixing
<nisshh> yea maybe
<nisshh> there are alot of bugs arent there
<humphreybc> yes
<nisshh> humphreybc: yea, ok, ill fix bugs in the manual
<humphreybc> you could always learn python
<humphreybc> then you'd know how it feels...
 * nisshh knows python already
<humphreybc> quickshot?
 * nisshh is not THAT good with python
<nisshh> i looked at the quickshots code and could not understand it much
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> heres an example of what i can do: https://edge.launchpad.net/pytask
<humphreybc> help me with this shit: http://paste.ubuntu.com/441722/
<nisshh> ^^^^^^ uses couchdb
<nisshh> whats wrong with it?
<humphreybc> it doesn't work?
<nisshh> ah, i think there is heaps of stuff like this in the python docs
<humphreybc> nisshh: this is my new project https://launchpad.net/about-ubuntu
<nisshh> humphreybc: and this code is for that is it?
<humphreybc> no, this is study for a lab test tomorrow
 * nisshh wonders if he should help humphreybc with his uni stuff...
<nisshh> give me a minute and ill grab some info from the python docs for you, there is a whole section on string manipulation in there
<humphreybc> I have so much of this shit to work through that i'm being tested on tomorrow
<humphreybc> and because I went to UDS I missed all the freakin' labs for this stuff
<nisshh> aw, thats bad
 * nisshh takes pity on humphreybc 
<nisshh> humphreybc: so which part of that code doesnt work, it looks ok to me apart from the last few lines
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/441726/
<humphreybc> it fails the last two doctests
<nisshh> your going to have to explain it better, i dont even know what a doctest IS
<humphreybc> so a doctest just parses in some shit, and an expected result
<humphreybc> good for testing functions
<humphreybc> so it gives you some examples if you will
<nisshh> right
<humphreybc> it's very good for testing students, coz they can give you some stuff and expected results, and you have to write the function to make it pass
<nisshh> ah, ok, so if they give you the word apple, and an expected result of 'aple' then you have to write a function that will give you that result?
<nisshh> humphreybc: ^^^^
<humphreybc> yep
<nisshh> ah, this is easy
<nisshh> theres an example in the python docs that does exactly this im pretty sure
<humphreybc> i'm about to kill myself so you better find that example quick!
<nisshh> humphreybc: arrhharhahrhar, hang on i cant find it, iv gotta eat something, in the meantime (i mean, so you dont kill yourself) have a look here: http://www.devshed.com/c/a/Python/String-Manipulation/
<nisshh> ill be back in 5 minutes
<humphreybc> nisshh: i finally got it working with the help of the people in #python, 40 minutes later, http://paste.ubuntu.com/441734/
<nisshh> cool
 * nisshh was going to suggest that exact code anyway :)
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> nisshh: what about these ones
<humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/441735/
<humphreybc> i've got the first and last functions going okay
<humphreybc> the middle two, "common_elements" and "remove_section" I don't know what to do with though
<nisshh> humphreybc: ok, hang on sec im getting swamped trying to talk to 8 people at the same time
<humphreybc> well aren't we Mr popular
<nisshh> haha ver funny
<humphreybc> I think i'm going to have to call it a night
<nisshh> ok
<humphreybc> have a look at my about ubuntu window thing
<nisshh> i did, its interesting, but why wouldnt you just try and get it into ubuntu?
<nisshh> humphreybc: since it looks like you are just trying to improve whats in ubuntu already, thats what i would do
<nisshh> d0od: are you the d0od from omgubuntu?
<d0od> nisshh: I am
<d0od> nisshh: don't throw rotten fruit at me xP
 * humphreybc is trying to find some more nice themes... but nothing's coming close to what i've currently got
<nisshh> d0od: no, i read omgubuntu every day
<nisshh> :)
<nisshh> humphreybc: what do you currently have?
<humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/desktop.png
<humphreybc> anyone know how to get rid of that crappy arrow thing that appears over the gnome menu icon?
<d0od> if you use Shutter you can choose whether to have the cursor show or not
<humphreybc> i know
<humphreybc> you know how there are two main menus
<humphreybc> there is the default one that has "Applications Places System"
<humphreybc> and then there is another
<humphreybc> the one with just the ubuntu logo
<d0od> ooooh
<d0od> i see
<humphreybc> but it has a big fat fugly drop-down arrow
<humphreybc> I don't want that crap, I just want the icon
<d0od> is the arrow on the icon image itself y'think?
<humphreybc> I don't think so :(
<humphreybc> I think it's part of the applet
<d0od> boo
<d0od> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4697/
<humphreybc> love it
<d0od> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=733808
<humphreybc> you have to re build gnome-panel from source?
<d0od> go to last page
<humphreybc> ahhh
<humphreybc> yay
<humphreybc> if there is a will, there's a way
<humphreybc> or, if it can be done, someone would have done it before you and it'll be on the internet...
<d0od> lemme know if it works cos that's a tip dying for a post
<humphreybc> where's .gtk-rc?
<humphreybc> I can't find it
<humphreybc> is it in a new folder or some shit
<humphreybc> I can't find it
<humphreybc> gGRRR
<nisshh> humphreybc: do you hate buttons on the left?
<humphreybc> nisshh: No, I just don't see any need for them there right now.
<humphreybc> d0od: Okay, I just created my own .gtkrc-2.0 file and added that shit in, did a killall gnome-panel and it worked. But now I have some other funky block in my panel.
<nisshh> humphreybc: you know its way more intuintive to have them on the left, if your right handed apparently thats the way your hand wants to go
<humphreybc> I tried it for a while, never worked
<nisshh> yea, i love them on the left to be honest, although i dont really like the idea of windicators
<nisshh> reminds me of why one reason windows is so shit: crap on the desktop
<d0od> i, too, love left-handed... but windicators seem like a recipe for FAIL.
<humphreybc> d0od: okay, it works fine for Ambiance
 * nisshh just finished *purchasing* robin hood movie
<humphreybc> but read post #62
<humphreybc> and that panel applet doesn't have an actual "clicked" depressed state
<nisshh> d0od: im hoping windicators will be running as a service so you can just kill it and not have it start at boot
<vish> nisshh: ++++++1
<humphreybc> d0od: I want something like this
<humphreybc> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/ubuntu/search-your-computer-quickly-with-the-deskbar-applet-on-ubuntu/
<humphreybc> the newer version of that thing doesn't have a "view" tab at all
<humphreybc> I tried installing it
<humphreybc> I want a nice search bar like in Unity
<humphreybc> wtf, has nobody created something that has a text field in the panel  to search for shit?
<d0od> :(
<humphreybc> that sucks!
<humphreybc> nisshh: you should make one
<humphreybc> d0od: A great post would be how to add custom locations and weather information to the weather applet if your city isn't listed
<d0od> that would require me knowing how to do that?
<humphreybc> :P
<d0od> what's the plan with the weather applet come indicator-datetime in 10.10?
<humphreybc> no idea
<nisshh> humphreybc: why cant you? :)
<humphreybc> can you write them in python?
<humphreybc> ew, http://projects.gnome.org/ORBit2/appletstutorial.html
<nisshh> yea, i agree , ew
<humphreybc> i wonder if gnome shell is any better
<humphreybc> that was a disaster. i'll try the PPA.
<humphreybc> PPA provides a bit more of a stable version
<humphreybc> but it's sooo dark
<nisshh> its slow on my P4 too
<nisshh> laggy
<humphreybc> yeah
<nisshh> and uses alot of CPU
<humphreybc> it's not exactly fast on core 2 duo
<nisshh> but apparently 2.32.2 has performance improvements
<humphreybc> I've got 2.32.1
<nisshh> yea
<nisshh> do you like gnome-shell?
<humphreybc> nope
<humphreybc> lol
<nisshh> hehe
<humphreybc> i don't see the point
<nisshh> well, i like the getting rid of the traditional panels
<humphreybc> yeah
<nisshh> but apart from that yea i dont see the point
<humphreybc> but I don't really want to press activities every time I want to change an application
<humphreybc> a dock is much more efficient
<nisshh> humphreybc: you dont have to, you can still alt-tab and switch worspaces with a shortcut key
<humphreybc> yeah i can see that
<nisshh> i do find it annoying that you have to open activities EVERY time you want to open a new app though
<humphreybc> yeah
<nisshh> but i suppose thats what gnome-do + docky is for
<humphreybc> oh docky does work
<nisshh> but hopefully it will get better once its released and people start brainstorming better ideas
<humphreybc> I don't like the white on black
<nisshh> urh me neither
<nisshh> humphreybc: werent we having a meeting this weekend?
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> i dunno
<nisshh> maybe next, i think godbyk wanted to have one
<humphreybc> I like Ubuntu's notification system a lot better than gnome shell
<nisshh> or said we should i something
<humphreybc> I hope shotwell isn't copying all my photos over to somewhere when it's importing
<d0od> pictures > photos > [folders[
<humphreybc> ......
<humphreybc> oh what thje fuck
<humphreybc> stupid shotwell
<humphreybc> that's what I hated F Spot for!
<d0od> if it had a preferences you could probably disable it ;)
<humphreybc> what a dumb application
<humphreybc> why did we choose that for maverick?
<d0od> cos it's not f-spot :D
<d0od> it's just as crap as f-spot but faster
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> so what happens to compiz when gnome shell is released?
<d0od> it dies?
<humphreybc> good luck trying to pry wobbly windows away from everyone
<humphreybc> it's the one reason most people use linux for
<d0od> haha
<d0od> gnome-shell is gonna fail anyway
<humphreybc> gnome shell is destined for failure
<d0od> it could do a KDE 4.0 (hell it'll need to...)
<d0od> in that it's shit.. but then get's a bit better
<humphreybc> it's written javascript?
<d0od> nope. it's written in FAIL.
<d0od> !help
<manualbot> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<d0od> !digest
<manualbot> Factoid 'digest' not found
<d0od> wow manualbot sucks.
<d0od> !chucknorris
<manualbot> Factoid 'chucknorris' not found
<humphreybc> lol
<humphreybc> !helo
<manualbot> Factoid 'helo' not found
<humphreybc> !welcome
<manualbot> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-manual! Feel free to ask questions and help people out. The channel guidelines are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines . Enjoy your stay!
<vish> !hell
<manualbot> Factoid 'hell' not found
<d0od> the OMGbot in our IRC is really slick
<humphreybc> really?
<d0od> http://jamesmr.dyndns.org/omgbot/index.php/Main_Page
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: iv figured out why my app didnt work with the setup.py file
<ubuntujenkins> nisshh: what was it?
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: the setup.py file that quickly generates is designed to work with packages, not source tarball installs
<ubuntujenkins> I see, makes sense
<nisshh> yea, so for now its not an option but it may be sometime later
<nisshh> ubuntujenkins: its almost ready for release and iv fixed a bunch of bugs so you wont have to wait much longer to get your hands on a ppa package
<nisshh> itll be ready sometime in june
<ubuntujenkins> yey \o/
<nisshh> probably before the 10th
<nisshh> hehe
<dutchie> hello!
 * dutchie is tired :(
<ubuntujenkins> hello dutchie
 * ubuntujenkins has been doing lots of revision so is also tired
<dutchie> i have spent the weekend loitering at the NWSC by Nottingham
<dutchie> unfortunately not racing due to being rubbish :(
<ubuntujenkins> I have never been, you should have come to loughborough you were so close to me
<dutchie> i had little/no free time
<dutchie> or transport
<ubuntujenkins> fair enough we will meet some time :)
<dutchie> :)
<dutchie> probably over the summer
<ubuntujenkins> I am back home soon so we are further apart then :(
<dutchie> i'm quite sunburnt
<ubuntujenkins> did you wear sun cream ?
<dutchie> not really, no
<ubuntujenkins> self inflicted sunburn :P
<dutchie> yes
<dutchie> too much american football
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
<godbyk> ubuntujenkins: pong
 * c7p it's ping time
<ubuntujenkins> you know my headset stuff you helped with last wee well it utrns out that all the pulse audio stuff has to be run as the current user so i have http://paste.ubuntu.com/441905/ but I can't get this to run properly  .the order in what everything runs is wrong. Could you have a look please :)
<godbyk> sure
<ubuntujenkins> thanks, the bit in the $() is the bit you did which returns a number.
<godbyk> so what's the actual problem?
<godbyk> It's going to run a command like:
<ubuntujenkins> the udev rule runs as root but, all the pacmd commands must be run as the current user
<godbyk> su luke-jennings pacmd set-default-source 2
<godbyk> (or whatever index number that works out to)
<ubuntujenkins> yea thats the idea
<godbyk> oh, put a -c after your username
<godbyk> su luke-jennings -c pacmd set-default-source 2
<dutchie> doesn't sudo -u exist to specify user?
<ubuntujenkins> that doen't work ifor got to type that Home directory /home/luke-jennings not ours.
<ubuntujenkins> No PulseAudio daemon running, or not running as session daemon.
<ubuntujenkins> Welcome to PulseAudio! Use "help" for usage information.
<ubuntujenkins>  is the error
<godbyk> dutchie: yeah, that'd work, too, I suspect.
<ubuntujenkins> nope sudo -u gives the same error. I thnik we must ahev to get the pacmd set-default-source $(pacmd list-sources | grep "alsa_input.usb-Logitech_Logitech_USB_Headset-00-Headset.analog-mono" -B1 | grep index | awk '{ print $2;}') bit to run as me as well
<godbyk> try: sudo -u luke-jennings -c "pacmd set-default-source $(pacmd list-sources | grep "alsa_input.usb-Logitech_Logitech_USB_Headset-00-Headset.analog-mono" -B1 | grep index | awk '{ print $2;}')"
<godbyk> see what that breaks.
<ubuntujenkins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/441923/
<godbyk> apparently your pulse-audio daemon isn't running...?
<godbyk> the user's session pulseaudio daemon, that is.
<ubuntujenkins> I tried su luke-jennings -c "pacmd set-default-source $(su luke-jennings -c pacmd list-sources | grep "alsa_input.usb-Logitech_Logitech_USB_Headset-00-Headset.analog-mono" -B1 | grep index | awk '{ print $2;}')" . but it doesn't work it just leaves a flashing terminal.
<ubuntujenkins> If i run the command as my self in the terminal it works, so pulseaudio should be working
<godbyk> I think the whole command I gave you is crap. :)
<ubuntujenkins> I think I am making this very complex
<godbyk> heh
<godbyk> maybe put it in a shell script.  ensure the script works properly.
<godbyk> then have su or sudo run that script as your user.  (I think you have to be logged in already, otherwise you won't have your session pulseaudio daemon running.)
<godbyk> there's probably better way, anyway.
<godbyk> isn't pulseaudio supposed to handle all that stuff automagically?
<ubuntujenkins> If i run http://fpaste.org/tL3U/ by pressing alt+f2 it works its when doing it as root thats hard
<godbyk> right.
<godbyk> I think you should be able to do that within a pulseaudio config, right?
<godbyk> I have to run to campus to meet with someone about some C++ code.
<godbyk> I'll be back later (if you haven't gone to bed already.)
<ubuntujenkins> #pulseaduio suggested that but we got know where. thanks godbyk I think you have solved it. I will have a go
<ubuntujenkins> something you said
<godbyk> Best of luck!
<c7p> Is there anyone who know something about shell scripting ? (actually bash)
<ubuntujenkins> godbyk: is the best whats your question we can try it
<ubuntujenkins> c7p: ^
<ubuntujenkins> I can make my script run as root by making a script called "callheadset" all it contains is #!/bin/bash, su luke-jennings -c headset . Now i can't get the udev rule to work hmmm. I haven't changed anything
<c7p> I din't understand the last two periods but it's ok :d, i don't have even moderate knowledge on shell scripting
<ubuntujenkins> :)
 * ubuntujenkins hmm now the problem lies with the script working as root but not when the udev rule runs
 * ubuntujenkins made probably the longest post on the ubuntuforums the thread is basically me talking to my self about this silly udev rule http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9385103#post9385103 :)
<ubuntujenkins> I really don't understand why the udev running doen't make it work
<c7p> ubuntujenkins: wow you talk to you through a forum ! maybe it's a charisma :P (kidding)
<ubuntujenkins> I had to look that up :)
<c7p> night all
<ubuntujenkins> nigth c7p
<ubuntujenkins> night all
 * godbyk is back now
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-23
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, did you see anything about lucid-e2 pt_BR?
<Andre_Gondim> I mean if there is error
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: There are some errors, yeah. I'm waiting to get the screenshots for it, though (as those are the first dozen or so errors it's complaining about).
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I used the branch that have some screenshots
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Which branch is that?
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, lp:~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/pt_BR
<godbyk> Okay, let me download that branch and try to compile again.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: The glossary entry for DHCP is missing a \ before 'newglossaryentry'.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: In that same entry, the 'name' and 'description' words were translated and they shouldn't have been.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Same entry: the closing }} were missing.
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: The 'distribution' glossary entry has the 'description' keyword translated. It shouldn't be translated.
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I have fixed yesterday, if you are talking about https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e2/+pots/ubuntu-manual/pt_BR/10/+translate
<godbyk> Andre_Gondim: Yeah, that's the one.
<godbyk> Okay, I'll update my .po file and try it again, then.
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-25
<c7p> hello team :)
<semioticrobotic> Anyone know when the natty branch will be active for writers and editors to begin working on content for the 11.04 edition?
<c7p> semioticrobotic: kevin will create it when he will find some free time, i think it will be up this week
<semioticrobotic> c7p: Thanks!  Looking forward to getting started whenever godbyk pulls the trigger.
<c7p> semioticrobotic: nice :), i think you can start writing text based on the maverick files or find the differences between  maverick and natty (that affect your chapter)
<c7p> hey godbyk, how are you ?
<godbyk> c7p: not too bad. keeping busy.
<c7p> godbyk: good, this morning i was searching for a better translation platform, i found a very good alternative, Transifex -maybe you remember it from a previous discussion -. I will sent you a mail about it later, just have it in mind.
<godbyk> The name sounds vaguely familiar.
<godbyk> Yeah, shoot me an email and we'll take a look.
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-26
<semioticrobotic> godbyk: ping!
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-27
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, any news about pt_BR lucid-e2?
<godbyk> Hey, Andre_Gondim. Did you get the bugs fixed that I mentioned the other day?
<semioticrobotic> godbyk: ping!
<Andre_Gondim> godbyk, I guess so
#ubuntu-manual 2011-05-28
<c7p> hey godbyk, what's up ?
<c7p> miso
#ubuntu-manual 2012-05-21
<hannie> hey stillnotcool How's life?
<hannie> stillnotcool, the tex file Learning more gives me some errors in LaTeX
<hannie> I have to find out what the problem is (something with tabs)
<hannie> hi ChrisWoollard If you are here, I want to know if you have time for some proofreading in the near future
<herat> hannie: Hi, Got your email. I also completed managing additional software part. You can tell vaibhav to look into it, too.
<hannie> ay, herat thanks
<hannie> I will tell vibhav he can proofread the whole chapter
<herat> hannie: yes, that would be great, thanks.
<hannie> you won't be available the coming week? np, vibhav can contact me if he has any questions
<herat> Yes, I have exams.
<stillnotcool> hannie: Oh no!
<stillnotcool> thanks for catching that
<hannie> herat, did you do the whole chapter Software Management?
<hannie> stillnotcool, yes, always fighting with LaTeX :(
<hannie> but I always win ;)
<stillnotcool> ha!
<stillnotcool> hannie: Thanks for all your hard work with that.  please let me know if there's anything I can do to help.  I can look into issues after work today
<hannie> stillnotcool, if you have TeX Live installed, could you try and add the new text to Projects and generate the pdf file, please?
<herat> hannie: Yes, Most of the content did not require much changes.
<hannie> stillnotcool, The problem is in the section Books and Magazines
<hannie> stillnotcool, If you also cannot generate the pdf because of this tab problem, please let me know
<stillnotcool> hannie: Actually, I do not have that swoftwre installed :(
<stillnotcool> *software
<hannie> ah, in that case don't bother. It takes hours to install it
<stillnotcool> But I will go back through our file and double-check the syntax
<hannie> I will find out myself what's wrong
<stillnotcool> if that would help
<herat> hannie: I am also not able to generate pdf. I pulled code yesterday and now I am getting errors.
<hannie> herat, that is odd. I just pulled the latest code and generated the new pdf
<herat> ohk, let me try again.
<hannie> stillnotcool, I could not find any tabs in the section that causes the problem, but maybe you find something odd in Books and Magazines
<stillnotcool> hannie: Okay.  I will have a look some time soon.  Sorry for the trouble.
<hannie> stillnotcool, thanks. Let me know if you find something odd
<hannie> herat, did you change something in Projects just before you tried to make the pdf?
<herat> hannie: No, I just pulled from repo.
#ubuntu-manual 2012-05-27
<sagaci> installing the new version of texlive on quantal... seems to be downloading around 470MB for the texlive package
<thorwil> godbyk: do you have the current page margins for a4 at hand?
#ubuntu-manual 2013-05-22
<cqfd93> Hi All!
<crhrabal> So is there anywhere where there is some sort of lists of things that need an author/editor assigned to them
<crhrabal> im looking to get an early start at some writing, but I do not know where I should begin
<cqfd93> crhrabal, you can take a look at this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdGd1LVl5X2hvNkg2SEZiVzZ2RnYtWHc#gid=0
<cqfd93> Writing for the saucy version hasn't started yet
<crhrabal> yeah I know cqfd93, I'm just eager to get started :)
<cqfd93> :-)
<cqfd93> I guess you also know there will be a meeting on Sat. 8
<crhrabal> yeah I saw that
<crhrabal> I'll be there :-)
<cqfd93> Me too :-)
#ubuntu-manual 2013-05-23
<hannie> hi everyone
<cqfd93> Hi Hannie and All!
<CarstenG> Hi all
<cqfd93> Hi CarstenG!
<cqfd93> CarstenG: have you had time to work on your script for the Raring manual?
<CarstenG> Hi Sylvie.
<CarstenG> No, not yet.
<CarstenG> Have to leave now.
<CarstenG> Sorry.
<CarstenG> See you.
#ubuntu-manual 2013-05-24
<hannie> hi crhrabal glad you can attend the meeting
<crhrabal> yeah i'll be there hannie :-)
#ubuntu-manual 2013-05-25
<CarstenG> cqfd93: Hi Sylvie.
<CarstenG> Nice to see, that the script works for you.
<CarstenG> I hope it helps for reviewing :-)
<hannie> Hi all
<hannie> CarstenG, what useful script are you talking about?
<cqfd93> hello Carsten and Hannie
<hannie> hi cqfd93
<CarstenG> Hi Hannie
<cqfd93> CarstenG: I haven't heard from the other translators yet
<CarstenG> I mean the script which I wrote for adding LP links to the po file
<cqfd93> Hannie, this script works great
<hannie> ah, yes, I am sure it is great. I tested it a while ago
<CarstenG> see my email to the list from 12th march
<hannie> We will not publish the Dutch translation of Raring (only LTS) because we are understaffed
<hannie> There are only about 40 messages to go, but they are long ones. And making screenshots is a hell of a job
<hannie> I used Pierres automated version of the manual to get te fuzzies in
<hannie> *the
<CarstenG> I see 812 untranslated strings for Dutch raring...
<hannie> CarstenG, I am experimenting with making a pot (and then po) file from scratch. Do you have experience with that?
<CarstenG> Why you mean 40?
<hannie> CarstenG, because, like I said, I used the automated version from Pierre
<hannie> I will upload it to LP shortly, it is on my TODO list
<CarstenG> You mean, you have translated here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated/trunk/+lang/nl ?
<hannie> let me see if that is the one.....
<hannie> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntumanualautomated/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-manual-ubuntu-manual/nl/+translate
<hannie> yes, 98% translated
<CarstenG> mmmh, I thought this was not the intention to translate there.
<hannie> Well, it is much less work because we can copy the fuzzies. That's why 98% is translated now.
<hannie> We do have to review carefully, though
<hannie> I have just downloaded it and after reviewing in Lokalize I will upload it to the proper place
<CarstenG> As I understood Pierre, this was only to get suggestions here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/raring/+pots/ubuntu-manual/nl/+translate
<hannie> It is about the same workflow as the one I use as mentioned above
<hannie> The only snag is that people from outside our team cannot work on the automated version, which is good
<cqfd93> these automated translation can be very useful: you can work offline to improve translations, do mass-replacements, then upload the .po, approve it, and have it imported in just about 15-20 mins
<hannie> cqfd93, I think the great advantage is the conversion of fuzzies to approved
<cqfd93> And suggestions from this file appear as suggestions in the real manual translation pages very quickly
<hannie> Yes, that too
<cqfd93> Hanny, I agree
<hannie> cqfd93, we are sort of guinea pigs
<cqfd93> *Hannie (sorry!)
<hannie> What's in the name ;)
<cqfd93> I wrote Hanny
<hannie> I mean the French and the Dutch teams (guinea pigs)
 * cqfd93 needs coffee, see you soon :-)
<hannie> see you, enjoy your coffee
<cqfd93> back with a large cup of hot coffee (I'm freezing)
<hannie> Suggestion, stay inside near the heater :)
<hannie> I am away in a minute, Sylvie, I may have some questions I want to ask but I am in no hurry. See you all
<cqfd93> All heaters are off... :-(
<cqfd93> Hannie, you said we're like guinea pigs because we're using Pierre's new tool?
<hannie> yes, that's right
<cqfd93> ok
