#ubuntu-nz 2011-02-14
<ojwb> i think retailers for TVs and other consumer stuff have low margins on the equipment, so try to make money on cables and accessories
<ojwb> they seem to try to push surge protectors which are insanely expensive
<hads> That's correct.
<ojwb> and extended warranties
<ojwb> cloudcamp was good in parts I thought
<ojwb> not sure having everyone in the same discussion for the whole time was the right choice though
<ojwb> and the general assumption that everyone should be using the cloud for everything seemed a bit odd
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
<thumper> morning
<ojwb> morning
<Atamira> afternoon
<hads> Afternoon
<Atamira> its not easy going back into nornal sleep patterns when you've been on midnight shifts for a year
<ibeardslee> are you on day shifts now?
<Atamira> no, holiday till next week
<Atamira> and im flying to chch on thurs morning
<Atamira> might have to stay up all night
<hads> Hmm. Updating an Intrepid box.
<ibeardslee> that's a multi-hop to get it up to date isn't it?
<ibeardslee> that also reminds me I need to do a karmic -> lucid upgrade on my vps
<hads> Yeah, Intrepid -> Jaunty -> Karmic -> Lucid and maybe stop there.
<ibeardslee> last time it went boom and had to restore
#ubuntu-nz 2011-02-15
<snail> ibeardslee: there used to be some package that recommended three restarts between upgrades
<snail> ibeardslee: i think it was a grub upgrade?
<ojwb> what i tell you three times must be true?
<ibeardslee> I think the grub -> grub2/grubpc recommends something like that before actually removing grub
<hads> Hmm. I am running do-release-upgrade in screen. I disconnected from my screen and it appears screen has been uninstalled.
<hads> I can't re-install it since dpkg is already running. That's quite amusing.
<mwhudson> :)
<ajmitch> that's very irritating :)
<mwhudson> hope it's not trying to ask you a question
<hads> I guess I'll wait a while and see if it's unlocked when it finishes.
<hads> Oh yes, questions. Bummer.
<ajmitch> there shouldn't be any reason why screen would get uninstalled
<mwhudson> i guess you can man-handle the deb to get the binary out and run that?
<hads> Yeah, that's what I was thinking if worst comes to worst.
<hads> ajmitch: Yeah, odd.
<ajmitch> dpkg-deb should allow you to get the files out, if you're desperate
<ojwb> hads: download the .deb by hand and unpack it?
<ojwb> or ar and tar...
<ajmitch> or just wait & see if it finishes the upgrade :)
<ojwb> hmm, I wonder if you can run screen from under /proc
<ojwb> since it's presumably still running
<ajmitch> using the open fd?
<ojwb> or something like that
<hads> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 2011-02-15 14:37 /proc/7744/exe -> /usr/bin/screen.real (deleted)
<ojwb> /proc/<PID>/exe is a symlink, so that's no help
<ojwb> yeah
<ajmitch> the fd allows you to get the file contents
<ojwb> indeed
<ojwb> you may need to copy it rather than executing from the fd
<ajmitch> maybe not useful for screen, but useful for other deleted files
<ojwb> yes, I've salvaged files that way before
<ajmitch> I'd probably use the screen binary from the .deb rather than doing it that way
<hads> Hey, it's installed again.
<ajmitch> good
<hads> That's useful.
<hads> Wonder what happened there.
<ajmitch> then all our speculation for how to unbreak it is unnecssary :)
<hads> I thought the package was upgraded rather than removed for some minutes and then replaced.
<ajmitch> I can't remember what order it's done in, files are unpacked as a different name (eg screen.dpkg-new) & then renamed in place
<hads> Ah okay.
<hads> I wonder if it's something to do with the fact that it's actually screen.real too.
<ajmitch> could be, alternatives can make things a bit screwy
<ajmitch> or wrapper scripts like that
<hads> Oh well all better now, that would have been an interesting twist to the upgrade.
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> not as bad as sshd getting killed mid-upgrade
<hads> heh
<mwhudson> my machine spontaneously rebooted while most of the new packages weren't configured once :/
<ajmitch> yeah, that can leave things in a bad state
<Atamira> ive been through that too
<Atamira> annoying
<ajmitch> times like that you want to be able to use filesystem snapshotting
<mwhudson> luckily there was enough configured to boot to a console
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ojwb> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
<thumper> morning
<Atamira> mornin
#ubuntu-nz 2011-02-16
<Atamira> anyone hooked up a microsoft exchange to evolution or thunderbird?
<ojwb> i used to grab my mail from exchange at a place I was working at
<ojwb> I think I was lucky and the IMAP port just worked
<ojwb> this was nearly a decade ago too, so things have probably changed
<Atamira> thanks ojwb
<Atamira> we've worked out that its not going to work
<Atamira> not on this machine neway
<karora> Atamira: There is a cool little project called DAVMail too.
<Atamira> does it link to outlook?
<karora> It provides an interface to Exchange which you can use for IMAP, CalDAV, ... protocols.
<karora> Sort of for a one-person server.
 * karora has never used it, since I don't have access to an Exchange server and am unlikely to :-)
<ajmitch> I think there's an evolution mapi connector now, not sure how stable or useful it is
<ajmitch> it's in the evolution-mapi package if you want to try it out
<Atamira> mornin
<Atamira> awww..im going to miss the mornings in here over the next week
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> Morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ojwb> morning
<chilts> morning (just)
<hads> Yay, 4 more hours then it's long weekend time.
<ajmitch> lucky for some :)
<hads> Annual trip, only taken the whole week to arrange work around it.
<ibeardslee> meh long weekends .. just means more has to be stuffed into shorter weeks
<hads> Exactly
#ubuntu-nz 2011-02-17
<kiwidood> Hey can anyone here access bshellz.net without getting timeout's?
<zapzupnz> Yes.
<kiwidood> You can access it?
<zapzupnz> Yup
<zapzupnz> This is it, yeah? ---> http://grab.by/909i
<kiwidood> Wtf
<kiwidood> I've been IP blocked o.O
<kiwidood> Are you with slingshot by chance?
<zapzupnz> Nah, telescum.
 * ojwb boggles at ubuntu-sso-login with a process size of 226MB
<ojwb> and that uninstalling it removes software-center
<ojwb> still, that can go - i've always found the US spelling distasteful
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> ojwb: sometimes you just have to make that stand
<Atamira> mornin
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> i should amend that to be
<Atamira> morning from chch
<Atamira> wow. borders bookshop has crashed
<lifeless> aren't they bankrupt ?
<lifeless> http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/company-news/borders-files-for-bankruptcy-closing-30-of-stores/19846131/
<Atamira> i only saw the local news article
<Atamira> whitcoulls is having problems too
<mwhudson> well given that borders in new zealand is owned by the same people as whitcoulls...
<chilts> morning
<karora> morning!
#ubuntu-nz 2011-02-18
<ojwb> kind of off-topic, but i've been asked if I know anyone interested in about 10 hours a week doing PC and printer support at wellington airport
<ojwb> feel free to PM me and I can put you in touch
<ibeardslee> the airport doesn't have their own?
<ojwb> i think it's for an airline, but I don't know any details
<ojwb> it's just some sideline of the people i'm working for currently
<ibeardslee> ahh
<Atamira> pity i didnt live in wellington
<zapzupnz> Heh, yeah. If only it were Napier Airport, different story. :P
<Atamira> or even chch airport
<Atamira> since im here now
<ojwb> if only there was some fast way to get from one airport to another
<Atamira> lol
<G> ojwb: you mean a ministrial motorcade?
<zapzupnz> Driving around the place in expensive BMWs, doing not much useful stuff at all
<zapzupnz> I'm already doing half of that
<zapzupnz> The other half should be a doddle
<Atamira> mornin
#ubuntu-nz 2011-02-20
<ojwb> anyone run mythtv/mythbuntu?  if so, what do you use to get listings info for more than just what's on right now?
<ojwb> even the what's on right now doesn't seem to work for all channels for me
<ojwb> with DVB-T currently, if that makes a difference
<ojwb> though I have a DVB-S card to set up too
<cloudy_nz> hi zapzupnz
<zapzupnz> hello
<cloudy_nz> how's life?
<zapzupnz> Whimsical. Next week, back to uni. It'll finally be serious, again.
<zapzupnz> You?
<cloudy_nz> trying to motivate myself to learn more jQuery, lol
<cloudy_nz> ah which uni do you go to? I went to Auckland
<zapzupnz> Well, I don't go to uni - I go to EIT.
<zapzupnz> I just call it uni because it's quicker to type than polytech. Plus, I've become accustomed to having to say that when people overseas look at me with a quizzical look as I say it.
<cloudy_nz> lol
<cloudy_nz> I went to a polytech too
<cloudy_nz> it was called AIT, then it became AUT
<zapzupnz> AUT has the advantage that it didn't extinguish the polytech aspect of it
<cloudy_nz> heh heh, yeah it's all a bit stupid
<cloudy_nz> polytech teaches you more practical stuff, while uni teaches more theoretical stuff
<zapzupnz> Indeed.
<zapzupnz> Polytechs are there to get you in to a job, essentially.
<cloudy_nz> hmm yeah
<zapzupnz> As for me, I'm not so fussed - I don't find I'm learning much - just want the certification, really.
<cloudy_nz> I kind of wish polytech courses taught you a few things more in depth, rather than a lot of practical stuff only on the surface
<zapzupnz> True
<cloudy_nz> lol what are you studying?
<zapzupnz> Bachelor of Computer Systems - covering programming, mostly, and system analysis
<cloudy_nz> cool!
<cloudy_nz> there aren't enough developers in NZ
<zapzupnz> That's for sure
<cloudy_nz> I got my programming job 2 weeks after graduating!
<zapzupnz> It's disappointing to see how many shift to Australia, the UK, or the US
<cloudy_nz> there's more money over there, lol
<karora> A lot shift here too.
<zapzupnz> Money, sure. If that's what your interest is.
<cloudy_nz> are you going to get into .NET or Java?
<karora> How many people in this channel were not born in NZ, do you think?
<zapzupnz> I think we have it made, here.
<zapzupnz> Well, we learned with .NET and Java - but I don't intend to stick to them in my immediate career.
<cloudy_nz> oh, whatcha going to focus on?
<zapzupnz> karora: not a clue, not a care. As long as they're here.
<cloudy_nz> I am a python/php programmer
<zapzupnz> I'm not sure.
<cloudy_nz> lol
<karora> zapzupnz: Where are you studying?
<zapzupnz> karora: EIT Taradale
<cloudy_nz> they are crying out for .NET developers in Auckland
<cloudy_nz> Java is much harder to get a job in
 * karora is currently doing Android dev in Java.
<karora> There's still plenty of Java jobs.
<cloudy_nz> ...unless it's Android Java, lol
<zapzupnz> Android and servers still have demand. But that's not me.
<cloudy_nz> people at my work don't like Java, they say it leads to large, difficult projects that never get finished
<karora> Scripting languages are better, so long as the environment isn't constrained.
<cloudy_nz> mobile apps might be better
<zapzupnz> Mobile app projects get as big as any other
<karora> Anything at all can lead to large, difficult projects that never get finished.
<cloudy_nz> not in python! (yay)
<karora> It's more likely to be a consequence of who the development is being done for than what language it is done in.
<karora> Yes, even in python.
<zapzupnz> Anything is susceptible to it - bad planning
<karora> INCIS in python would still have failed.
<cloudy_nz> well actually I saw a project using python and the YUI...that was not pretty, lol
<zapzupnz> That's why you get these developers who don't plan, don't comment their code, don't visualise workflows, don't record issues and fixes â¦ you feel like strangling them
<cloudy_nz> back in 5
<cloudy_nz> yeah lack of documentation is probably the worst thing I've faced
<zapzupnz> Better to have too much than not enough
<zapzupnz> For at least the excess can be thrown away :P
<cloudy_nz> definitely
<zapzupnz> But you can't magic extra documentation out of thin air
<cloudy_nz> yeah, a good compiler or intrepreter totally ignores & excludes comments
<zapzupnz> Such is the point of comments :P
<cloudy_nz> I mean, use heaps of comments, because it won't cause any problems
<zapzupnz> Yup
<cloudy_nz> so where you going to live when you graduate, zapzupnz ?
<zapzupnz> I'm going to stay where I am, for a while, in Napier.
<cloudy_nz> ah ok
<zapzupnz> Perhaps eventually I'll move to Wellington. Who knows?
<cloudy_nz> I hear it's difficult to find a job there unless you know people
<cloudy_nz> Wellington rocks! They have a dynamic Python UG there
<zapzupnz> If I cared about Python, I'd probably go.
<cloudy_nz> the pycon is there in August
<zapzupnz> lol
<zapzupnz> In fact, I'd go anyway.
<zapzupnz> Never hurts to learn about what's what, does it?
<cloudy_nz> my cousin & his wife tried to find a job in Napier, but he could only get one in forestry he didn't like
<cloudy_nz> yeah, I did 3 C# exams, and that hurt a lot!
<zapzupnz> Luckily in the last year of the degree I'm doing, you get to do work ex - and normally it's in Wellington.
<zapzupnz> But then, it depends on the expertise.
<zapzupnz> I don't want to go to Auckland - I don't know it, and don't care to learn it.
<cloudy_nz> yeah don't come here, lol
<cloudy_nz> go to Welly, where everything is cool
<zapzupnz> Cool is right. Bloody freezing. But at least I have friends there.
<cloudy_nz> they have trendy artist & poet types, and people don't just care about money
<cloudy_nz> all anyone cares about in Auckland is money & property
<zapzupnz> Gosh, sounds like Auckland would be the better place. o.o
<cloudy_nz> from what I hear, Welly pays better too
<cloudy_nz> all the government offices are down there, paying contractors big $$$
<zapzupnz> Bleh, boring stuff.
<zapzupnz> It sucks that the best paying stuff is boring.
<cloudy_nz> yeah, .NET & Oracle is boring
<cloudy_nz> but who cares when you earn $80 an hour? hehe
<zapzupnz> That's money talking. :P
<zapzupnz> Provided I can pay the bills, I don't care about the money - just so long as what I does makes me happy
<zapzupnz> And boring != happy
<zapzupnz> Boring == boring
<cloudy_nz> when you have a family to support, money becomes a whole lot more important
<cloudy_nz> lol
<zapzupnz> I doubt that'll happen
<cloudy_nz> yeah, I suppose I could have looked for a better paying C# job rather than python
<cloudy_nz> but OSS is so much more interesting
<cloudy_nz> guess I have the same attitude, hehe
<zapzupnz> :D
<zapzupnz> As long as there's a roof on your head and food on the table and bills paid, all is well. <3
<zapzupnz> And besides
<zapzupnz> Who'd not want to be doing what they REALLY love as their job? :P
<cloudy_nz> yeah that's true
<cloudy_nz> I've seen some unhappy Microsoft developers, hehe
<zapzupnz> hehe, yup
 * cloudy_nz goes to eat pizza for dinner
<zapzupnz> nom nom
<ojwb> who says you need to live anywhere near the people you work for?
<ojwb> live in NZ, get paid at the rate in a different country...
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail1> ibeardslee: sorry i didn't notice you on the bus, i wasn't really awake
<ibeardslee> yeah that's ok .. I figured that was the case
<ibeardslee> just as well you were further back .. you cuoldn't see the tears of rejection ;)
<ajmitch> morning
<snail1> if i'm not awake enough to notice you, I can't imagine my conversation is scintillating at that time of the morning anyway...
<thumper> morning
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<karora> morning :-)
<mwhudson> sneaky
<G> anyone here had trouble getting those Advanced Electricity Meters installed?
#ubuntu-nz 2012-02-13
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
<snail> moring
<snail> morning even
<Atamira> good morning all
<codepal> afternoon all o/
<snail> afternoon
#ubuntu-nz 2012-02-14
<G> anyone here deal w/ XML much, curious if you know of any reasonable XML diff type tools, just had xmldiff OOM on two machines in very short span of time
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<codepal> morning
<snail> mÅrena
<Atamira> morning
<codepal> anybody here think Google can solve MojoMathers problem with transcripting parliament for her?
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> they wouldn't be able to make sense of what winston is saying
<codepal> I'm thinking multi-threaded voice recognition
<codepal> ajmitch, lol - winston ? I actually though it might be hard to Google to figure out what the UN said that everybody else has to follow, whether they're National or Labor
<codepal> it's interesting that several of the latest laws have referred to "We signed up to this at the UN" --
<ajmitch> codepal: more referring to him having to repeat a question several times the other day before he could be understood
<codepal> now we have to get it done
<codepal> other day? - Was that when he was trying to get John to answer his direct question and the speaker didn't want to let him?
<codepal> I heard that one, great entertainment
<codepal> Question time = when alot of NZ listens to parliament for the entertainment value
<ajmitch> kindergarten time
 * ajmitch shouldn't bring politics into #ubuntu-nz like that :)
<chilts> morning
<ibeardslee> codepal: are you a yank?
<codepal> ibeardslee, no, why do you ask?
<ibeardslee> Labor
<ibeardslee> Labour
<codepal> very yank influenced, but no, please ignore my error
<lifeless> codepal: the google voice rec stuff is pretty hit and miss IME
<mwhudson> morning
<codepal> there'll be some OSS tech somewhere that Google / Government could leverage for Mojo Mathers surely...
<codepal> don't see why would have to cost $30,000, in any case
<ibeardslee> personally I think they shouldn't focus on her so much as all deaf people
<codepal> this bit about having to have 2 typists / recorders taking turns every 15mins is a bit ridiculous
<ibeardslee> with NZ sign as an official language they have to support it
<codepal> well, what about this subtitles on the live feed, surely possible?
#ubuntu-nz 2012-02-15
<ibeardslee> entirely possible, but would still require a couple of typists
<ibeardslee> it's been a long time since I did anything with voice recognition .. and having watched some bit of the parliment tv, I reckon most things would be hard pressed to sort out the intelligent conversations from the background noise
<ibeardslee> .. .. what am I saying? .. sort out the current permitted speaker from the background noise
<stuartyeates> ibeardslee: thanks for the offer, btw
<snail> mÅrena koutou
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
<codepal> morning
<Atamira> morning all
<hads_> morning
<mwhudson> morning!
<ojwb> morning
<kcj> Afternoon.
#ubuntu-nz 2012-02-16
<ibeardslee> afternoon
<ojwb> afternoon
 * ibeardslee is at home .. not alive enough to work, but upgrading laptop to precise.
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: perfect time to be doing it, just as people are trying to land all the latest features in a mad rush
<ibeardslee> I have been noticing changes on my PC
<ibeardslee> tempted to upgrade my server to get a more recent version of calibre
<ibeardslee> but will wait until it hits something higher than alpha2
<ajmitch> morning
<Atamira> morning
<Atamira> and nite. going to bed
<ibeardslee> morning
<codepal> morning
<snail> mÅrena koutou
<hads> morning
<ibeardslee> mutter mutter, got an email from Ascent yesterday saying that HP have discontinued the FreeDOS option on their laptops and PCs in NZ.
<ajmitch> not good
<ibeardslee> less than ideal .. will look at how I can rattle some trees elsewhere and further afield
<ajmitch> looks like telstraclear's ipv6 path just disappeared
<ajmitch> finally, first boot on new drive with everything copied on, just in time for work :)
<ojwb> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2012-02-18
<ibeardslee> tests eh?
<Atamira> morning
<ojwb> morning
<codepal> morning!
<codepal> another wonderful summer morn, brilliant
<ojwb> not round here...
<ibeardslee> preemptive class action suit against the government for selling of the metservice for under performing?
<ibeardslee> s/of/off/
<ibeardslee> oh wait, they just want to sell off the ones that are performing
<ojwb> they really need to pull their socks up and give us better weather
<codepal> weather modification?
<codepal> haarp?
<codepal> well, we've messed everything else up, why not spend lots of money and mess up the weather as well
<codepal> for all I know Bill Gates has already done it...
<ojwb> globally there seems to be more messed up weather in recent years
<codepal> apparently weather comes in cycles, in the 1800's they had the Thames freeze over
<codepal> I doubt that human-kind caused that back then...
#ubuntu-nz 2012-02-19
<y0gster> Hello
<y0gster> hi
<kcj> Earthquake!
<ibeardslee> morning
<snail> mÅrena koutou
<Atamira> morning
<Atamira> such a nice day here today...so far
<hads> morning
<ojwb> morning
<ibeardslee> kcj: I didn't feel it at all
<kcj> It wasn't a large one.
<kcj> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3661295g.html
<ojwb> fairly deep too
<kcj> Yeah.
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<lifeless> gninrom
<locodir-user> Hello, having been a Ubuntu fan for years I recently bought a second hand Toshiba ac100 because the research I did suggested that I can install Ubuntu on it. Having tried for several hours - without success - I feel my knowledge is falling short. Can anybody here in NZ lend a hand?
<mwhudson> i know people who have installed ubuntu on ac100s
<mwhudson> haven't done it myself though
<lifeless> locodir-user: what happens ?
<locodir-user> It seems I can't get the proper path to nvflash to load the bootimage
<locodir-user> Thought that by now I would know a little about Ubuntu, but have been proven wrong.
<lifeless> have you followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TEGRA/AC100#Installing_Ubuntu_11.10_on_the_AC100 ?
<locodir-user> That's the one
<locodir-user> so, was hoping maybe someone could assist me with this...
<lifeless> sure, we can try
<lifeless> the first step is probably to describe in more detail what happens
<lifeless> :)
<locodir-user> I have tried to follow each of the steps as documented on the ubuntu site but keep running into fault messages
<locodir-user> and that is where my knowledge falls short...
<locodir-user> I do not know how to address the faults
<locodir-user> hope that explains my dillemma :)
<locodir-user> *dilemma
<chilts> I think you'd have to post at what stage you are getting the faults and what the faults say
<locodir-user> ok
<chilts> otherwise it's pretty hard to figure it out
<locodir-user> I know...
<chilts> also, have you googled the error message and seenw hat that turns up?
<locodir-user> I take it you are in NZ and is it maybe an idea that come and visit?
<locodir-user> That way you can see for yourself.
<chilts> heh
<ojwb> NZ is still quite a large area
<locodir-user> I know but I'm central in Taupo
<ojwb> a mere 5 hours drive away from me then
<locodir-user> and seeing this has taken me hours already I can make it a road trip haha
<ojwb> you could tell us what the error you get is
<locodir-user> will run terminal again... just a sec
<locodir-user> I've started the ac100 in recovery mode
<locodir-user> I have copied the bootimage onto  this onto a miniusb and inserted this into the ac100
<locodir-user> On my host computer, open a terminal and run:
<locodir-user> Next I give the command: nvflash --bl /usr/lib/nvflash/fastboot.bin --download 6 /path/to/ubuntu-11.10-preinstalled-desktop-armel+ac100.bootimg (which is the miniusb on which I've copied the file and for which I can not find the path).
<snail> have you changed /path/to/ to something else ?
<locodir-user> I don't know the path
<locodir-user> I have tried using the miniusb on the host but it won't accept the path when I try this.
<snail> Did you follow the instreuctions in the "Files to download" section of the wiki page previously? doens't that involve downloading a file of that name?
<locodir-user> yes I did
<locodir-user> when I tried to download 'wget http://share.grandou.net/debian/nvflash/nvflash_20110628-2_all.deb' I get a '403' error
<locodir-user> anyway, did manage to get nvflash running.
<ojwb> if you got 403 then it hasn't downloaded it
<ojwb> that means "forbidden" - likely a permission setting is wrong on the file on the webserver
<locodir-user> I know and that is where my problems started :)
<locodir-user> I did manage to get nvflash working (I think) but my lack of knowledge in Linux commands prevents me from 'fixing' the things that need to be fixed.
<ojwb> i know nothing about nvflash i'm afraid
<locodir-user> well... I guess I need to go back to some of the youtube clips to try to figger this out. Thanks for your help! :)
<snail> looks like http://share.grandou.net/debian/nvflash/ and pick the most recent
<lifeless> heh
#ubuntu-nz 2013-02-11
<G> hads: hey, I can't remember if you've already answered this, but are you going to have the Ubiquity EdgeMax Lite routers when they become available?
<hads> G: I want one for myself :)
<hads> I might stock them, I'll see what sort of price I can get on them.
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<olly> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<thumper> morning
<hads> morning
<mwhudson> mornings
#ubuntu-nz 2013-02-12
<Atamira> anyone here under snap for their isp?
<ajmitch> yep
<Atamira> good?
<Atamira> werent you the one that issues when you first started with them?
<ajmitch> hads was
<ajmitch> they're mostly pretty good now
<Atamira> steady d/l rates then?
<ajmitch> yeah
<Atamira> im having to move from orcon. i dont want to be under a contract
<Atamira> and the plan im on is soo old is obsolete now
<ajmitch> I think snap have at least 12 month terms for any of their DSL or UFB plans
<hads> Yeah they do require a contract
<hads> I'm pretty happy with them. They are still working through an upload issue with my connection.
<hads> Anyone have thoughts on using a pair of SSDs for a VM host server?
<Atamira> sigh
<Atamira> i dont want a contract
<G> hads: depends if SSDs still have the 'too much I/O kills the disk' issues - maybe preventable if you use some sort of Direct I/O for the guests  (assuming you are talking about guests on the SSDs)
<hads> G: Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. They have come a long way now.
<G> hads: I think assuming you either partitioned the SSDs, or used something like LVM on top of the SSDs, you'd be able to use say KVM+virtio+directio and not have to worry about it as much, but I've tried to stay clear of SSDs myself atm
<hads> I've been using them in my laptop/desktop and appliances for quite some time now, just unsure about servers.
<hads> I currently use KVM with a mixture of file images and LVM with virtio.
<G> yeah, I've heard about SSDs in servers for a while but a lot of them were things like SSDs that basically ran a read-only copy of their Oracle DB because they did crazy amounts of reads
<G> that thinking back is going on 3-4 years, so it's not a crazy idea
<hads> I've had one SSD die on me and one that is acting strangely now. Both older OCZ drives, all the newer ones I've got are Intel and none have failed as yet.
<G> hmmm, I must confess, I'm thinking of trying the Crucial SSDs (I got a Crucial mSATA for my NUC which doesn't seem too bad)
<mwhudson> hads, G: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7PJ1oeEyGg
<hads> :)
<G> hmmm helps if I plug my headphones into the right machine
<G> might what that later :)
<mwhudson> G: the summary is "if you are not using ssds (everywhere) you are wasting your life"
<olly> morning
<hads> morning
<Atamira> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<thumper> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-02-13
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly> morning
<Atamira> mornign
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> raring not ready for 'do-release-upgrade -d' ?
<thomi> ibeardslee: you need to make sure you don't have "LTS-only" checked in your software-properties-gtk thingie
<ibeardslee> heh .. nope you need to ensure that the clone VM does have a mirror configured
<chilts> morning
<mwhudson> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-02-14
<Atamira> morning
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<hads> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ibeardslee> http://store.steampowered.com/sale/linux_release
 * mwhudson is installing
<mwhudson> although i'm not sure any of the games on that page look super super appealing
<ajmitch> hopefully there'll be a few more over the coming months
<ibeardslee> a number of rumours of the next iteration of some popular games coming out on (steam for) linux first
<ajmitch> I'll believe it when I see it happen :)
<ibeardslee> likewise
<thumper> morning
<snail> the only reason i can see a linux-first approach making sense is if the games were developed in a way that made an extensive build / test farm useful in dev, which seems unlikely
<snail> OTOH; if you're using 1000 hours x 1000 boxen to fine-tune a learning, adaptive AI, that may make sense...
<ajmitch> I don't see why that's relevant to the platform that a game would be released on
<ajmitch> with valve confirming plans for a linux-based console spec, that'd generally be the main business reason for releasing first on linux
<snail> ajmitch: a thousand windows licences is $$$$ right, of have they changed their licensing, again?
<ajmitch> licensing changes all the time for windows, there's always some difference between retail licensing & what an organisation might be able to negotiate
<snail> fair enough
<ajmitch> microsoft are especially friendly with licensing costs towards developers because it helps more people stick with windows :)
<snail> so the steam announcement might be more closely related to steams' current licence negotiations with microsoft than the actually chances of a linux version?
<ajmitch> who knows?
<ajmitch> valve do appear to be serious about linux support, but game developers still need to port games
<thumper> oh hai there
<thumper> I have a theory
<thumper> "steam box"
<thumper> is linux based
<thumper> valve want their box to get new titles first
<ajmitch> yeah, that's what I mentioned earlier
<thumper> ajmitch: oh, sorry
<thumper> lines were too long :)
<ajmitch> it's nothing we can really change, so I won't worry about it too much :)
<thumper> ajmitch: sure you can, write less on each line
<thumper> :)
<ajmitch> I was meaning about valve :P
<thumper> heh
<thumper> valve have little to no interest in windows 8
<thumper> microsoft have little to no interest supporting less than windows 8
<ajmitch> valve provides the distribution platform, but game developers still choose which to support
<ajmitch> HL3 on linux would still be nice :)
<snail> i'd buy civilisation-type games on linux
#ubuntu-nz 2013-02-15
<olly> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2013-02-17
<ibeardslee> morning
<chilts> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<thumper> morning
<hads> morning
<snail> who would have thought that the correct solution to a cert expiring on a mail server was to go back to sending passwords in cleartext?
<ibeardslee> .. ?!?!?
<G> uhhhhh   huh?
<G> sounds like a faulty logic has no logic type moment
<snail> sounds like organisational logic
#ubuntu-nz 2014-02-10
<ibeardslee> morning
<Atamira> morena
<kcj> Morning.
#ubuntu-nz 2014-02-11
<ibeardslee> good old nz.archive.ubuntu.com .. a bit outdated for trusty
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly_> morning
<ajmitch> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-02-12
<ibeardslee> wow just wow the debian init debate is getting badly trolled
<ajmitch> hardly a surprise :)
<mwhudson> http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org/msg1194840.html seems above and beyond though
<ajmitch> which reads like the same person trolling the list from multiple email addresses
<mwhudson> that was waht other people were saying
<olly_> yeah, they keep getting banned so move address
<mwhudson> no idea who it really is presumably?
<mwhudson> someone who is a bit mentally ill at a guess :/
<olly_> i doubt there's a real world identity tied to them
<olly_> i wonder if ubuntu will end up suffering these people later
<ibeardslee> bound to have these sorts of things
<ibeardslee> already have people getting upset with things like unity, or with mir etc
<olly_> it doesn't seem sensible for ubuntu to stick with upstart forever if nobody else uses it
<olly_> until unity, etc, users don't actually see init
<ibeardslee> although I haven't seen the crying about change and decisions to involve threatening violence
<ajmitch> it makes less sense to stick with upstart if debian eventually has services without sysvinit-compatible scripts that upstart can fall back on
<ajmitch> ibeardslee: probably because of list moderation on ubuntu-devel :)
<lifeless> olly_: depends how you measure usage.
<lifeless> olly_: by end users, upstart is the single most deployed Linux init system out there.
<mwhudson> all those RHEL6 servers!
<olly_> lifeless: i wasn't measuring usage
<lifeless> olly_: what were you measuring ?
<olly_> i'm not sure I was measuring anything
<lifeless> heh
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly_> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2014-02-13
<olly_> morning
<ibeardslee> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<hads> mornin
#ubuntu-nz 2014-02-16
<ibeardslee> morning
<olly_> morning
<ajmitch> morning
<mwhudson> morning
<chilts> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2015-02-09
<olly> hmm, the "ubuntu one" SSO which seems to have replaced the launchpad SSO appears to be proprietary
<mwhudson> olly: isn't it https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-isd-hackers/canonical-identity-provider/trunk ?
<mwhudson> the u1 and lp variants have just been different skins for a couple of years now iirc
<olly> that makes this entry in the T&Cs a bit odd: https://login.launchpad.net/terms/#intellectual-property
<olly> "You will not acquire any rights to the software or the intellectual property from your use of the services, other than as set out in this agreement and in the software licensing of the distributed client code."
<olly> i guess that can still be true, but it seems a pointless thing to assert if the code is under an open licence anyway
<lifeless> olly: it is pointless :)
<lifeless> mwhudson: about 8 years now I think
<olly> morning
<mwhudson> lifeless: not quite :)
<lifeless> mwhudson: well, when I started as LP TA in 2010 it had been split out for a couple years already
<lifeless> mwhudson: common DB which was terrible
<mwhudson> yeah, but i hadn't started at canonical 8 years ago and there wasn't any SSO when i started
<lifeless> mwhudson: ah, 2009.
<lifeless> mwhudson: the SSO was split out for ubuntu one
<mwhudson> sounds about right
<lifeless> so sometime late 2008 or 2009
#ubuntu-nz 2015-02-14
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2016-02-15
<olly> morning-ish
#ubuntu-nz 2016-02-17
<olly> morning
#ubuntu-nz 2017-02-14
<mwhudson> i don't suppose anyone here watches sky go on ubuntu?
<ibeardslee> sorry not tried
<olly> if it's the same tech as neon, it needs a flash version from after adobe ditched linux support
#ubuntu-nz 2017-02-15
<olly> another tv question - is there a way to tell mythtv that a +1 channel has the same schedule as the unshifted version, just with a one hour delay?
<olly> the nz data source only has TV3, not TV3+1
<hads> There's something wrong with the EPG feed for TV3+1
<hads> There's no way to do what you're wanting with mythtv itself I don't think.
<hads> olly: Fixed it, should be data now.
#ubuntu-nz 2017-02-16
<olly> hads: oh cool
