#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-01
<snap-l> jrwren: Coolness.
<snap-l> jrwren: Coming to CHC on Wednesday?
<jrwren> probably not, but maybe i'll get away
<jrwren> when is mug? this week or next?
<rick_h_> 2nd tues
<jrwren> so next week. cool.
<rick_h_> hmm, what was that speaker rating site that was going around for a while?
<snap-l> Not sure.
<brousch> i'm frickin tired. who has coffee for me?
<rick_h_> no kidding....dragggggggging
<snap-l> I have coffee, but it'll be a bitch to ship
<brousch> rick_h_ and snap-l: you both missed out on winning a book at lightning talks
<snap-l> Bah
<snap-l> Which books?
<brousch> there was a tab;e full of them
<snap-l> Ah, so winner's choice?
<brousch> righ
<brousch> wow, my typing is not good today
<brousch> seemed like everything from apress and no starch
<snap-l> Yeah, they seemed pretty well represented.
<brousch> i picked PYthon for android using sl4a
<brousch> http://www.apress.com/9781430235699
<rick_h_> brousch: hah, oh well
<rick_h_> nice
<snap-l> brousch: Nice!
<rick_h_> congrats
<snap-l> DIdn't know that book existed.
<snap-l> Will need a review. Expecially on Amazon, sice it isn't there. ;)
<snap-l> (any reviews, that is)
<brousch> wow, weird
<brousch> been out almost a month according to the apress page
<snap-l> Well, that too and I stopped getting their newsletter.
<snap-l> for a while they didn't have much in the way of Python coming out
<snap-l> and then they drop books like that, and the update to Foundations of Network Python Programming
<brousch> i got home at midnight. i think the left side of my brain is still sleeping. that half of my head feels heavy
<snap-l> heh
 * greg-g waves at all the PyOhio folks
<snap-l> Hey greg-g! Sorry we couldn't make your party last night
<greg-g> no worries, bad timing/weekend for you pythonistas
<rick_h_> greg-g: you're up early post-party
<greg-g> rick_h_: you're telling me
<greg-g> I about over slept. Was so tired that I set my alarm for 6:30pm. Woke up at 7:20 and rushed to go pay rent and get to the office by 8am
<ptenhoopen> rick_h_:  I liked your SQLAlchemy presentation.  It was also fun trying to help out on the Bookie sprint even though we spent most of our time setting up!
<rick_h_> ptenhoopen: awesome! Glad you liked the talk.
<rick_h_> ptenhoopen: yea, but it was good. Even those that just set it up I think learned a little bit on some new things
<rick_h_> not many people had done the virtualenv/bootstrap things and the fabric commands for helping to get things running
<ptenhoopen> Exactly!
<rick_h_> so hopefully it was useful for both me/them
<ptenhoopen> It was.
<rick_h_> as I learned I have some very weak points in my setup
<rick_h_> and I've already started to redo some docs and update some of the scripts
<ptenhoopen> I'll be happy to test them.
<rick_h_> really appreciate everyone that helped with it. I still had fun :)
<rick_h_> awesome, thanks
<ptenhoopen> I need to finish the SQLAlchemy homework you gave us.  It was too dang hot in that classroom for me to think!
<rick_h_> ptenhoopen: yea no kidding
<rick_h_> while it sucked to watch everyone leave, I couldn't blame anyone.
<rick_h_> I didn't want to stay in there lol
<ptenhoopen> 85 degrees and climbing
<rick_h_> feel free to ping me on any of that. I still hope some people try it and help with some of the poor reputation points
<ptenhoopen> Cool
<brousch> reputation points?
<jrwren> rick_h_: speakerrate
<jrwren> http://speakerrate.com/
<ptenhoopen> rick_h_:  Are you saying that some people didn't like that SQLAlchemy talk?
<ptenhoopen> Or the reputation of SQLAlchemy?
<rick_h_> the rep of sqlalchemy as a tool
<rick_h_> because of all it can do, and the completeness, it's got a reputation as hard to get into, bloated, more than you need, etc
<rick_h_> my goal was more to fight those initial pain points
<rick_h_> jrwren: that's it
<rick_h_> thanks
<brousch> it is more than you need. every tool is. however the good tools don't let all the power get in the way of what you need it for
<rick_h_> http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/08/01/pyohio-2011-another-year-another-great-time/
<rick_h_> my sumnmary
<brousch> how the hell did you write a blog post already?
<rick_h_> I got up, and started writing a post :)
<jrwren> he is rick_h_
<brousch> i'm still combing through my feeds/email
<rick_h_> work will want a summary, so I'm doing it on day job time
<rick_h_> ah, well I have a boy that gets up at 6:30
<jrwren> prune your feeds/email.
<rick_h_> and I did most of that catch up when I got home last night
<snap-l> Heh, I'm so far behind on feeds it's not even funny.
<snap-l> But I'll get back up to date ar some point. ;)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesome summary.
<rick_h_> ty
<snap-l> I'll be blogging mine sometime this weekn
<snap-l> Right now, though, it is time to make a presentation for work.
<snap-l> Which is why I'm chatting on IRC. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<jrwren> declare feed bankruptcy. its easy.
<snap-l> Yeah, I will
<snap-l> Wow, the filenames generated by Ubuntu / GNOME's screenshot utility are actively Windows Hostile. ;)
<brousch> aren't they just Screenshot1.png etc?
<snap-l> Not with Chrome handling the titme.
<snap-l> title, even
<brousch> talk to your wife. i will not tityou
<snap-l> Not even a little twist?
<brousch> nyet
<snap-l> *whimper*
 * greg-g walks away slowly
<brousch> greg-g: imagine what will happen here when you're no longer around to enforce manners ;)
 * greg-g shudders
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Apparently I had a little glitch
<snap-l> Neato, I think I blew up my fonts.
<snap-l> Added Tahoma via the easy to use font installer, and now Impress / Writer won't start.
<greg-g> no one here happens to have a photo of me presenting anything, do they?
<locodir-user_> hey whats up
<locodir-user_> I need some help
<locodir-user_> plzz
<greg-g> hello there
<greg-g> please ask your question
<snap-l> greg-g: I thought I had a picture of you presenting at MUG, but I'm not finding it at the moment
<greg-g> yeah, weird
<greg-g> I can't find any either
<snap-l> I love when social sites (like the work social site) ask you to complete your user profile
<snap-l> as if the little bit that made me uncomfortable to enter in the first place wasn't enough
<snap-l> "sure, here's my twitter, where I use naughty words, and have strong opinions"
<snap-l> "And my blog, where I do more of the same in more than 140 characters"
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Uploading the one photo I took from that meeting.
<greg-g> sweet!
<greg-g> also, that IRC webchat thing on the LoCoDir might get annoying, though that was the first one I saw
<locodir-user_> hey thats me again
<snap-l> noted.
<rick_h_> snap-l: ooh, good find
<brousch> greg-g: if you have video, you can cut out a single frame of you presenting
<snap-l> https://picasaweb.google.com/craigmaloney/UbuntuMUG
<locodir-user_> ok Im stucking in this 2 questions and I hope you guys help me
<locodir-user_> 1. Write a shell script that will give the user 5 chances to pick your favorite color.  2. Write a shell script that will continue to ask for words until the user types in quit. All of the words typed in should be stored in a file called words in the current directory.
<_stink_> is this for a class assignment?
<brousch> locodir-user_: is this homework?
<rick_h_> lol
<locodir-user_> yess
<locodir-user_> the instructor is beyond good so thats why im here !!
<locodir-user_> lol
<snap-l> greg-g: Got what you need?
<locodir-user_> the script
<locodir-user_> if you could
<brousch> locodir-user_: http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
<snap-l> locodir-user_: That was directed at another user.
<snap-l> locodir-user_: In IRC, if you're directing conversation at a user, it's polite to use their name when doing so. :)
<rick_h_> locodir-user_: so, going to say this as nicely as possible. The guys/gals here are great and helpful. But no one is going to write your script for you
<greg-g> snap-l: hah, I look funny, thanks :)
<greg-g> brousch: good point, lemme see if I have anything good.
<rick_h_> if you have a specific question about some aspect, or want help with a script you're writing, you can paste what you have so far in http://paste.mitechie.com
<rick_h_> and people are very helpful
<snap-l> greg-g: I don't think I look anything like my pictures. ;)
<jrwren> the ##csharp channel actually says NO HOMEWORK in the topic. we've never really need to spell it out here :)
<locodir-user_> well the problem is I havent done nothing yet because idk where to start , like i know I gotta use the  if statment
<jrwren> wow, never programmed before eh?
<greg-g> locodir-user_: does your teacher have a time you can meet with them to get help?
<rick_h_> locodir-user_: what class/school is this?
<jrwren> and shell is your first language? sounds fun.
<_stink_> yeah, gawd, shell as first language.
<locodir-user_> the instructor never done a hands on
<locodir-user_> in the class
<rick_h_> right, but I'm going to guess that you've got a book, some lecture notes, "idk where to start" seems a bit of a stretch
<jrwren> I love shell. if you are a cmd person, its a great first lang
<_stink_> locodir-user_: i'd suggest looking for a bash scripting tutorial, and combine that with the link brousch gave above: http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
<jrwren> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bash+tutorial
<jrwren> locodir-user_: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bash+tutorial   :)
<locodir-user_> I dont have notes because all what he do just open the book and go through the chapters like its a history class
<greg-g> brousch: what would you use to cut the single frame?
<brousch> greg-g: ffmpeg split to jpeg, lemme see if i can find it
<locodir-user_> anyways thank you guys for your time and I dont blame ya
<greg-g> be sure to check out those links, locodir-user_ :)
<_stink_> locodir-user_: learn about how to get user input; how to show the user output; how to use if statements, and how to use a for loop.
<_stink_> with that, you should be able to get something started
<locodir-user_> I'll try although my test is n 2 hrs
<brousch> greg-g: actually it looks pretty easy in openshot
<brousch> trim down the video to a few seconds, export video as image sequence
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> it's in Export video, Advanced tab, Advanced options
<jrwren> poor kid.
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> And here's where I say "fuck presentations, it's a live demo"
<brousch> snap-l: eh?
<snap-l> Fighting with powerpoint is not something I particularly care to do. ;)
<snap-l> So I am better using the time to figure out LiveMeeting instead.
<snap-l> Which, of course, is proving to be the proverbial needle in haystack
<snap-l> I swear, corporate web portals need to be abolished.
<brousch> ug, impress gave me fits so i used S5
<brousch> pdfs for presentations are good if they support the media you need
<snap-l> Yes, but our lovely company has a standard template for how PowerPoint should be used.
<Blazeix> PDFs + Impressive are the way to go
<snap-l> And sending out anything that looks like a collection of pages in a presentation format is likely to fall under the "PowerPoint" moniker.
<Blazeix> though S5 looks cool
<Blazeix> it should add CSS3 transitions :)
<brousch> Blazeix: i came up with a couple of ideas for s5 improvements due to my presentation saturday
<Blazeix> there are a ton of web-based presentation apps out there, I haven't had time to really look at them all.
<brousch> using notes was hard. i had to alt-tab back and forth to advance the slide, scroll my notes
<brousch> i was thinking of making the browser stretch across both monitors, then have a vertical divider you can position where you want it. slides on the projector side, notes on the screen side. then they'd advance together
<rick_h_> brousch: I think as you do more presentations
<rick_h_> you tend to get more into a story a slide and can recall/do it on the fly vs notes like that
<jrwren> the github founder wrote and s5 replacement/killer
<brousch> rick_h_: i can't speak without a script. i am horrible
<rick_h_> one of the pains of the html presentations are the ones that don't support working via the presentation remote
<jrwren> brousch: just use 2 browser windows and script their sync
<rick_h_> where you need to use arrows vs click/etc
<Blazeix> jrwren++
<Blazeix> jrwren: do you recall the name/link to that s5 competitor? My searches are coming up dry
<jrwren> i'll look
<jrwren> http://schacon.github.com/ wrote it
<jrwren> showoff
<jrwren> https://github.com/schacon/showoff
<jrwren> not really s5 since i see its a sinatra app
<brousch> a whowha?
<Blazeix> thanks
<jrwren> yw
<brousch> there is some kind of weird disconnect between the title of this book and its description http://www.apress.com/9781430235699
<jrwren> zomg https://code.google.com/p/ganeti/
<brousch> the title is Pro Python for android, the description is Pro Scripting, and includes oither languages
<snap-l> rick_h_: Did we need to come back from pyOhio?
<snap-l> I'm starting to think that was a mistake. ;)
<brousch> snap-l: my python/android book is on amazon http://www.amazon.com/Android-Python-SL4A-Paul-Ferrill/dp/1430235691
<brousch> well, the book that i won, not my book
<brousch> bah, but it has the wrong description, like the apress site
<brousch> i submitted that bug to apress already
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I put it in my wishlist already.
<brousch> rick_h_: I sense restraint in your description of my talk in your blog post. I'm sure I pushed at least 2 of your buttons
<snap-l> wtf, wsgi lite?
<brousch> snap-l: wft. are you viewing my screen?
<brousch> i just hit that article 1 minute ago
<snap-l> Get off of reddit. ;)
<brousch> it was in my google reader feed, python planet i think
<rick_h_> bah, wsgi lite was so last night
<rick_h_> brousch: what buttons? Thought it was fine
<brousch> :P
<rick_h_> I think I'm mellowing in my old age
<jrwren> wsgi is already pretty lite isn't it?
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, you don't want to know
<jrwren> noted
<brousch> what we missed because we went to pyohio: https://plus.google.com/photos/105030465637303791249/albums/5635519623583589521
<jrwren> nah, that is just what rob saw. there was way cooler stuff than that at maker fair
<jrwren> although the bikes and the dragon were damned sweet.
<brousch> you went?
<jrwren> yes
<brousch> where's your giant photo gallery?
<jrwren> i didn't take any pics.
<brousch> boo
<jrwren> well, I took one.
<jrwren> i was too busy seeing and doing than shooting photo
<brousch> yeah, that happens at the best events
<brousch> i took 1 photo at pyohio
<brousch> automated head-mounted cameras should help with that issue
<brousch> see any of those at makerfaire?
<jrwren> nope
<brousch> hm
<brousch> should be able to embed it in a hat
<brousch> could just write an app and tape duct-tape an android phone to my head. snap pic, autoupload
<brousch> heck, i have most of that code already written
<ptenhoopen> brousch:  It'd be handy to have a remote shutter switch.
<brousch> hm
<brousch> some sort of bluetooth thing
<ptenhoopen> Yea, sure
<ptenhoopen> That'd work
<brousch> or you could get fancy and do some image recognition. when you hold up your middle finger where the cam can se it, it snaps a pic a second later
<ptenhoopen> That'd generate some interesting photos I suspect.
<locodir-user> any cool ppl n here would help me in my test
<locodir-user> come on michiganders
<brousch> i hate bash
<brousch> can you write it in python?
<Blazeix> too much for him to handle, brousch :)
<TeamXlink> There is a TDM 2v2 QuakeWorld Tourney being hosted, if anyone is interested in signing up. http://qwsta.info/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-02
<jrwren> what is TDM?
<jrwren> hate bash???? *gasp*
<jrwren> I love bash
<rick_h_> team death match?
<jrwren> ah.
<snap-l> brousch: Can you  write it in Python. Sheesh.
<snap-l> Also, we're not cool.
<snap-l> http://hardocp.com/article/2011/07/26/thermalright_hr02_macho_cpu_air_cooler_review <- What the fuck?
<snap-l> I'd be worried that the CPU fan would warp the mobo at that height.
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/joindiaspora/statuses/98186624780873728
<snap-l> Seriously?
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> love that
<snap-l> There's just no good way to read that
<snap-l> either a) they weren't running with a slave, and don't know much about MySQL, or b) They have such a crappy server that it couldn't take the replication load, and nobody coded the site to be run in read-only mode.
<Blazeix> I'm pretty ignorant of diaspora, but isn't it decentralized?
<Blazeix> is this just the main node?
<snap-l> Maybe there's a combo of things, but seriously, adding a slave should be transparent
<rick_h_> wsan't there some thing that to get it to work you had to register your node with the main node?
<snap-l> Blazeix: This is the main node, but I'm not sure what would cause the downtime.
<snap-l> Unless they're doing an upgrade as well
<rick_h_> come on, why isn't it put out over diaspora vs on twitter?
<rick_h_> I mean, if you're using it, wouldn't you be likely following them there?
<snap-l> *cough*
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, time to to 4 to 5 transition :P
<rick_h_> and dammit, stop using mysql ugh
<snap-l> Apparently it's up
<snap-l> Maybe someone got some sense.
<rick_h_> you should volunteer, I hear htey have $$ to get some good sys admin help
<snap-l> Yeah, that would be a great gig
<snap-l> I mean, if I fucked up, would both of their users notice?
<snap-l> "Woah, need some overtime. Gotta put in a new 'MySQL Slave' server".
<snap-l> I mean shit, we practically juggled some of our slave servers.
<brousch> snap-l: you see the sysadmin at gnu job opening?
<snap-l> Yes
<snap-l> I'd have to move to take a paycut
<snap-l> Fascinated that they're using Apache, though
<brousch> but freedom!
<snap-l> I would have thought that wouldn't jive with the FSF
<jjesse> who needs money when you are living on freedom
<jrwren> is there a GNU web server?
<jrwren> they should write one in lisp.
<TeamXlink> Does anyone know why this isn't working:
<TeamXlink> http://pastebin.com/rQuDBgnV
<TeamXlink> http://pastebin.com/qKg2zQVN
<TeamXlink> the second file is the index.php
<TeamXlink> the first file is the index.html
<TeamXlink> Its supposed to log the visitors ip to the file called: myvisitors
<_stink_> TeamXlink: a php file isn't included as a script in an HTML file like a javascript file is.
<TeamXlink> Oh.
<_stink_> what you need is to run this on an instance of a web server that can run php
<_stink_> TeamXlink: this might say more about getting started: http://w3schools.com/php/default.asp
<_stink_> but i'm afk for a bit.  if you don't get it, i'm sure i/someone can help tomorrow.
<Blazeix> https://twitter.com/#!/humble/status/98077015328038912
<Blazeix> "@humble: All Humble Indie Bundle #3 customers get a free copy of Steel Storm: Burning Retribution!  http://t.co/NcNDZka "
<snap-l> Blazeix: Yeah, that's awesome. :)
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/08/02/echochasm-libre/
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> party
<jrwren> quick poll: do you look at the contents of files in /lost+found or do you just delete tehm all?
<snap-l> jrwren: it depends
<snap-l> am I missing something or aren't I
<rick_h_> delete
<jrwren> sure, but that assumes you notice it missing. what if you delete adn notice it missing 5 yrs from now :)
<jrwren> i ask because my cron.daily emails me and tells me to clean 'em up.
<snap-l> Then you live and learn?
<snap-l> I guess my question is why are you collecting so much in lost+found in the first place
<jrwren> ha! or I learn the easy way and check first the first time.
<snap-l> and is it taking up so much space that it's becoming a problem?
<jrwren> these are files from 2008-08-07 to 2009-02-03   :)
<jrwren> no, not taking any space.
<jrwren> I just want to limit the output of my cron.daily, to hopefully nothing so that I don't get email.
<jrwren> and I want to do it the right way :)
<snap-l> Frankly, I'd leave them there, or do a quick file on them to see what they might be
<snap-l> and stop shutting down your filesystem uncleanly. ;)
<jrwren> I'm lessing each one, so far its been stuff I don't care about.
<jrwren> i can't help it if there is a power outage.
<snap-l> Journaled Filesystem
<jrwren> I'm too cheap for UPS
<jrwren> this is ext3, sheesh, that doesn't mean things don't go to l+f
<snap-l> Right
<jrwren> I had one of those seagate drives with teh bad firmware for a while. that lead to lots of instability
<snap-l> jrwren: Which one? ;)
<snap-l> Seagate made some real stinkers
<jrwren> it was a 750G IIRC but it was the one that was really noticed in their popular 1.5TB drives
<jrwren> at least it runs cool.
<jrwren> I have this 500GB Maxtor that runs hot as fire.
<snap-l> Ah, was thinking of the 1GB one that I had to RMA
<snap-l> which was also being used on one of our servers at WSU
<snap-l> summarilly, each one of them went to hell
<jrwren> was it that firmware issue?
<jrwren> oh wait... 1GB not 1TB :)
<jrwren> that would have been a WHILE ago :)
<snap-l> Yeah, it was
<jrwren> only 15 yrs or so
<jrwren> err.. i guess not quite 15 yrs
<jrwren> anyone else here use testdrive ? or is it just me?
<snap-l> What's testdrive?
<jrwren> zsync's an current ubundu-dev iso and boots it with KVM for you.
<jrwren> its very sweet, but the 11.10 installer stops recognizing KB input for me when it asks me to create the default user.
<snap-l> "I like this Craig Maloney Â» Post Topic Â» A simple object lesson on whatâs wrong with the music industry â dumping , enjoyed this one appreciate it for posting keep update Craig Maloney Â» Post Topic Â» A simple object lesson on whatâs wrong with the music industry â dumping." - Spammers aren't even trying anymore. ;)
<_stink_> i have bought all 3 humble bundles, and played about 15 minutes total of the games included.
<greg-g> I played a bit of world of goo
<greg-g> "and yet it moves" looks like it might be a contender
<snap-l> Heh. :)
<snap-l> If anything it's giving people more games to play than just Frozen bubble
<Wolfger> world of goo was entertaining for a day, then I kind of forgot it existed
<Wolfger> whenever anybody mentions it, I remember it fondly...
<greg-g> :)
 * Wolfger wonders if goo exists for Android phones
<Wolfger> doesn't look like it
<brousch> snap-l: Whats the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?
<brousch> You only have to punch the information into a drum machine once.
<snap-l> Har har
<snap-l> brousch: So, did you listen to Libre?
<brousch> no, i have the page up though
<brousch> i just got back from the dentist. will it be more pleasant than that?
<snap-l> Maybe.
<greg-g> depends on what happened at the dentist's
<brousch> snap-l:  sounds good
<brousch> just a cleaning. still no cavities
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
<brousch> i'd like to hear crazy drumming when it thins out at about 49s
<snap-l> I was trying to go for something like FLA's Millenium
<snap-l> Didn't quite get there, though
<brousch> the end doesn't quite fit with the rest of it
<brousch> so i love everything but the middle and the end
<snap-l> Thank you. ;)
<snap-l> Unfortunately, I didn't know how to end it, so I decided to nuke it from orbit. ;)
<brousch> endings are hard, let's go nuking
<brousch> oh, that reminds me, pyohio is over, i wanted to check out scratch
<brousch> http://scratch.mit.edu/
<brousch> I'm so proud of myself. I was wondering "where can I get free sound files?" i found it myself without having to ask greg-g
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> this is so rick: http://danielchoi.com/software/vitunes.html
<binbrain> jcastro: how's FL?
<rick_h_> jcastro: hah, saw that. But where will I run iTunse?
<rick_h_> there's no place to run it on in my house
<jcastro> binbrain: pretty awesome I must say
<snap-l> I'll go get the duck tape
<greg-g> brousch: you get the special cookie for today
<brousch> http://www.freesound.org/
<greg-g> cool coo
<greg-g> l
<rick_h_> ugh, I'm still pyohio dragging
<Wolfger> binbrain: Ask jcastro again after the first hurricane hits his city :-D
<Wolfger> Surprise, surprise. At the last minute, politicians vote to raise their own debt ceiling.
<Wolfger> I think I called that a month ago.
<Wolfger> Shh. He's here now, quit talking about him.
 * Wolfger is glad nullspace doesn't read the archives...
<snap-l> I know we've given up on meaningful names, but this is just ridiculous: http://oreilly.com/catalog/9781449306595/
<snap-l> Learning SPARQL
<Wolfger> It's new and... you know... sparkly
<Wolfger> I think it's a pretty nifty name, myself.
<Wolfger> far better than MySQL or Postgres
<Wolfger> DB2. MSSQL.
<Wolfger> Oracle is a decent name for a database.
<rick_h_> and this is why we don't let Wolfger run our IT depts :P
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> No.
<Wolfger> I don't buy software based on the name.
<Wolfger> But I can appreciate good marketing when I see it.
<Wolfger> Come on... if I made decisions base on names, do you think I ever would have tried Kubuntu (gesundheit)?
<rick_h_> sure, I heard your favorite letter was K
<brousch> yeah, right. you use kubuntu because you love choqok
<nullspace> hmm, I really have no urge to go to ohio linux fest for the talks
<rick_h_> nullspace: yea, been that way for years
<nullspace> the drive sucks, and the beer tickets are all gone by the time I get there
<nullspace> rick_h_: how was pyohio?
<jrwren> but you go to socialize, right?
<rick_h_> very cool, http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/08/01/pyohio-2011-another-year-another-great-time/
<rick_h_> jrwren: I skipped one year
<jrwren> i haven't been in 4 yrs or so. i really want to go this year.
<Wolfger> socialize? Beer!
<rick_h_> I'm going this year and I htink lococast is going to get an OSS table
<nullspace> nah I'm going to derbyCon
<rick_h_> setup some mics and try to hang out and such
<jrwren> cool.
<ptenhoopen> Last year at Ohio Linux Fest, there was no shortage of drink tickets.
<ptenhoopen> They were handing them out 10-15 at a time towards the end.
<ptenhoopen> nagios flipped the bill
<rick_h_> nice
<ptenhoopen> Maybe that should have been 'footed'.
<ptenhoopen> IDK
<brousch> snap-l: jono just tweeted your remix
<snap-l> Yeah, I saw that
<brousch> yougoboy
<brousch> rick_h_: did i miss a vim open space at pyohio?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, just a guy was looking for me and we ended up chatting vim
<brousch> ah, ok
<rick_h_> I guess he was in one of the vim open spaces I did at OLF/PyOhio in years past and wanted to chat
<snap-l> So, 3pm
<snap-l> Tuesday afternoon
<snap-l> Believe the "make the world a better place" goal for today is coming just a tad shy of completion
<brousch> but you released some music. that makes the world better
<snap-l> yeah, it does.
<snap-l> Just getting ready for tomorrow's big meeting
<snap-l> well, tomorrow's "shouldn't be a big meeting, but thanks to my current boss who believes that the only way to show progress is to schedule a big meeting" meeting
<brousch> your big travelling meeting?
<snap-l> That I'm not traveling for, yes. ;)
<snap-l> tomorrow will be interesting.
<brousch> you're so important they're setting you up with a virtual presence?
<snap-l> yeah, Netmeeting
<snap-l> It's like almost being there
<snap-l> And a conference call bridge
<brousch> not one of those segway-mounted monitors?
<snap-l> It'll be almost like you can hear me being sarcastic
<snap-l> brousch: No, we're the phone company, not fucking iRobot. ;)
<brousch> weak
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> well, sorry to disappoint
<snap-l> http://ohiolinux.org/node/67 <- Oh God.
<brousch> he was keynote or closing at indiana linuxfest, maybe ptenhoopen has some insights into how awesome he was
<jrwren> freetard keynote
<ptenhoopen> He was OK.  Seemed a bit self-centered.
<jrwren> Imma make a cheerful that says "MIT > GNU" and wave it around during his keynote
<ptenhoopen> Seemed to be very knowledgeable regarding licensing, patents, etc.
<waldo323_> who is planning on going to OLF this year?
<snap-l> Oh, no doubt.
<jrwren> hitler was knowledgeable.
<ptenhoopen> LOL
<jrwren> yes, i went there. :)
<ptenhoopen> I know of 2 others besides myself who are planning on going.
<snap-l> I just registered.
<rick_h_> oh crap, now I'm not going
<jrwren> i'm not either. because of the date :(
<snap-l> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/nook <- sigh
<snap-l> "Do you use Twitter? Let @nookBN know that you won't buy a Nook until they drop DRM. But please don't use Twitter on account of us."
<snap-l> "Comment on news stories and reviews of the Nook to warn shoppers about its DRM."
<brousch> so the nook is evil because it can read drm?
<brousch> it can also read non-drm
<snap-l> "Bring cans of spray-glue to your local B&N to and spray the devices down liberally. Then attach your cheek to them, symbolizing the stickiness of DRM"
<brousch> ug
<brousch> 3/4 of the books i read on my nook are sitting in my dropbox
<TeamXlink> http://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/j4v6p/this_whole_discussion_is_amazing_top_comment_why/c29f4ny?context=1
<TeamXlink> Title: "This whole discussion is amazing. Top comment: "Why are there moderators on an anarchism sub reddit?" "
<TeamXlink> http://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/commenThat guys a genius
<jrwren> is kindle ok?
<snap-l> jrwren: No, any DRM is bad
<jrwren> is ITMS ok now, since they dont' DRM the mp3 anymore?
<snap-l> I really hate corporate IT sites
<snap-l> "Important: In order to get started with Live Meeting, you need to first Register for a Live Meeting Account.  Then, get assistance on how to properly setup your user preferences."
<snap-l> Of course, the words "Register ... Account" are bolded
<snap-l> and don't link to a fucking thing.
<snap-l> All I want to do is schedule a meeting
<snap-l> god, what a pain in the ass
<snap-l> reason I was having trouble was because of Firefox vs. IE
<snap-l> because MS products don't crap out in explainable ways when they don't have IE
<snap-l> Hey, vimmers, how would I change a list of names (lastname, firstname mi) to (firstname mi lastname)?
<_stink_> if i were doing that, i'd do it with macros, which may not be the smartest way.
<_stink_> record a macro for one line, go to the next line, end recording
<_stink_> record a second macro doing the first macro for like 10 lines
<_stink_> the run the second macro repeatedly
<snap-l> hmm, that' sone way
<_stink_> it's an unsatisfying way. :)
<snap-l> looking for a %s/ ... /.. /g rule, though
<_stink_> yeah
<snap-l> I thought you could use $1, but that's not right.
<snap-l> found it
<snap-l> %s/\(.*\), \(.*\)/\2 \1/g
<_stink_> dang.
 * _stink_ notes
<gamerchick02> hey everyone! I have a job interview Thursday.
 * gamerchick02 does a happydance around her house
<brousch> where at?
<gamerchick02> MGA Testing.
<gamerchick02> MGA Research. sorry
<brousch> oooh, they have robots
<gamerchick02>  hahaha!
<gamerchick02> robots are awesome.
<gamerchick02> it looks like sled testing and stuff
<brousch> like snow sleds?
<gamerchick02> crash sleds
<gamerchick02> where they put car bits on it, crash it, and see how the dummy deforms the parts
<brousch> fun
<gamerchick02> usually for columns, i-shafts, wheels, etc
<gamerchick02> i-shaft = intermediate shaft. please no shaft jokes
<greg-g> none here
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> i did a test at delphi with grease... yeah... i was describing it to my family: "so i had to grease the shaft and test the sliding force."
<gamerchick02> yeah. *hands head in shame*
<gamerchick02> no puns from the peanut gallery?
<brousch> none necessary
<gamerchick02> :)
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Congratulations!
<snap-l> Sounds like the stuff that was at Ford
<gamerchick02> thanks. it's a testing place, and i have no idea what it's about.
<snap-l> Means they'll do a lot of simulation
<gamerchick02> i had a strange phone call, and it was like, boom, interview.
<snap-l> Programs like Madymo, etc
<snap-l> That's usually how that starts.
<gamerchick02> no contact with them before the phone call "do you want an interview"
<gamerchick02> uhm, YES!
<gamerchick02> :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-03
<gamerchick02> ok
<snap-l> No thanks, I'd rather sit on my heels
<gamerchick02> i'm off to fall asleep on the couch, or something
<gamerchick02> LOL
<gamerchick02> yeah. i'd rather sit here and not make any money. :-P
<gamerchick02> ok, i'm off
<gamerchick02> see everyone tomorrow, i guess.
<jrwren> flowscan and flow-tools anyone?
<rick_h_> nope, never heard of
<jrwren> i wish someone would grease my shaft and test the sliding force.
<jrwren> they are opensource rflow tools. this seems to be an area lacking in open source.
<TeamXlink> Q:
<TeamXlink> I have 2 copies of StarCraft, the one I originally got a long ways back and the one that came with the battlechest that I picked up at a garage sale a few years ago.
<TeamXlink> What would be the difference between mailing it too one of my friends.
<TeamXlink> And uploading it and giving them the cd key too.
<TeamXlink> The one I'd be giving them, hasn't been opened and registered on battlenet yet.
<TeamXlink> Would it be considered piracy?
<snap-l> TeamXlink: I am not a lawyer
<TeamXlink> So this isn't legal advice.........
<snap-l> TeamXlink: But I would say that mailing it to your friend would be preferable
<TeamXlink> But why would it be any different though?
<snap-l> because uploading it and then giving your friend the CD key technically isn't piracy
<snap-l> but you don't have to prove it to someone technical
<TeamXlink> Oh, it isn't?
<snap-l> you have to prove it to someone who isn't technical
<TeamXlink> Ah.
<snap-l> and frankly, I wouldn't take that gamble.
<TeamXlink> How is it technically not piracy though?
<snap-l> Well, to me, the license is with the key, not the medium
<snap-l> however, someone non-technical wouldn't see it that way
<TeamXlink> I don't see the difference between uploading it + giving him the cd key and mailing it.
<TeamXlink> Other then one saves postage
<snap-l> They'd see you uploading the CD as possibly infringing
<snap-l> TeamXlink: Send it media mail
<snap-l> Media mail is cheap
<TeamXlink> media mail?
<snap-l> Yes.
<TeamXlink> hmmmmmm
<snap-l> http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/173.htm
<TeamXlink> Ah, I see.
<snap-l> https://github.com/kobolabs/Kobo-Reader
<Blazeix> huh. kobo runs Qt?
<TeamXlink> Ah trolling, the internet's past time.
<Wolfger> I thought the internet's pastime was feeding the trolls...
<snap-l> Wolfger: Depends on what side of the fence you're on.
<rick_h_> morning
<Wolfger> I like both sides
<Wolfger> party
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> "As someone who has bought Drupal books from Packt, I am pleased to invite you to the private launch of our new PacktLib Drupal library. "
<snap-l> Oh boy!
<rick_h_> wheee
<snap-l> It's like Christmas in July, only it's August, and I don't give a shit.
<snap-l> Annual subscription of 9.99 for 30 Packt titles, though.
<snap-l> Or you could just buy the handful of good books, and have money left over.
<brousch> so, not a packt fan?
<snap-l> Not really
<snap-l> They seem to shovel out books that aren't very well put together
<snap-l> Put another way: a strong author will make a very strong book regardless of the publisher. A weak author will make crap if the publisher doesn't help out.
<snap-l> I think O'Reilly and Apress do more for their authors than Packt.
<snap-l> AWesome. RIM launched three new devices nobody cares about: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/aug/03/rim-blackberry-launch
<brousch> is the hp webos tablet out?
<rick_h_> yea, been out a while
<rick_h_> got it's first ota update this week
<brousch> i haven't heard anything about it
<rick_h_> it was a big "meh"
<brousch> not even whether is sux/rox
<rick_h_> see above
<rick_h_> mainly it came down to poor build quality and lacking app ecosystem
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, call me when BB is running QNX on phones and we can chat I guess
<rick_h_> there shouldn '
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I'm sure that'll be an exciting day.
<rick_h_> shouldn't be another release of the old BBOS
<jrwren> you want a playbook?
<rick_h_> nope
<rick_h_> but I think their new OS is their only hope in keeping up with the smart phone market
<rick_h_> their old one is too windows 95
<brousch> i'd like to see webos succeed
<rick_h_> +1
<rick_h_> I'm hoping they get the palm3 out there and rocking by this holiday season so I can give it a real loko
<snap-l> Yeah, but HP is extremely good at keeping things alive that should be taken out back and shot
<snap-l> witness HP-UX. ;)
<snap-l> I'll note that nobody in this room is clamouring to defend HP-UX. ;)
<brousch> i have never used it
<snap-l> It's like what you might expect from a corporate UNIX
<snap-l> strange directory placement, admin interfaces that hide the gory details, etc.
<jrwren> snap-l: VMS :)
<snap-l> Oh, and the complete absense of any compiler of note without a license.
<snap-l> jrwren: VMS is awesome. What are you talking about? :)
<jrwren> its still alive.
<jrwren> no copmiler... so its just like EVERY other commercial unix that isn't OSX
<jrwren> solaris - ships with no compiler.
<jrwren> tru64 - no compiler
<jrwren> what else is there?
<jrwren> but gcc is pretty easy to build on all of those.
<snap-l> Bootstrap, yes.
<snap-l> I wouldn't say easy to build, though. ;)
<snap-l> At least, not 10 years ago
<brousch> build?
<snap-l> brousch: Have you ever used any UNIX other than Linux?
<brousch> solaris way back in college
<rick_h_> ok, I'm going to have to disconnect from the internet today
<rick_h_> I'm ultra sensitive to the "stupid" today
<snap-l> On most, if not all commercial UNIX machines, they only ship with a rudimentary K&R compiler
<snap-l> rick_h_: What's wrong now?
<rick_h_> "How to include an image in a blog post using ReST ?" is the straw that broke...
<snap-l> brousch: So if you wanted to compile things (like GNU Utilities) from source, you can't
<rick_h_> on the blogofile mailing list
<snap-l> rick_h_: Serously?
<rick_h_> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/blogofile-discuss/yf3CY_rOy7s/discussion
<rick_h_> and see #pyramid and #sqlalchemy for the warm up materials
<rick_h_> " so, now i have my model - some mako templates ... and how do i get the data from the db now?  and into it? :D
<rick_h_> "
<rick_h_> "elmcrest: you know, I think the demo wiki app thing can help with that"
<rick_h_> response: "elmcrest> damn docs :D"
<rick_h_> yes, you're going to figure out how to use sqlalchemy, mako, and all of pyramid without the docs...was that really your expectation?
<Blazeix> it's python, it should just work
<snap-l> brousch: So if you want to build anything, you'll need a compiler, and gcc can be "bootstrapped" via the K&R compiler.
<Blazeix> he should be able to type in 'import myapp' and be up and running
<rick_h_> Blazeix: damn, got me. "There should be only one true way to do things..."
<snap-l> brousch: The K&R compiler is generally used on commercial UNIX to compile kernel stuff, but has just enough to get GCC going
<rick_h_> *sigh* so I have this cool client side calculator and they client doesn't it to auto update after they change each value
<snap-l> brousch: And then, once bootstrapped, you can compile GCC using GCC.
<rick_h_> they're forcing me to put a big calculate button on the page
<snap-l> rick_h_: nice.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sure we should have bar-room coders tonight?
<brousch> you can't just calculate after each entry?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, they don't like the magic I guess
<rick_h_> they're quite firm on it
<brousch> ah, so they want it to feel like a meatspace calculator
<snap-l> rick_h_: Which one of them has Javascript turned off?
<rick_h_> and they don't want me to popup the docs for each changed item automatically. They want an additional column with a big checkbox.
<rick_h_> snap-l: hopefully none of them, this whole damn this is a client side calculator/simulator
<rick_h_> *sigh* "Please take your cool working demo and just suck it up a bit for us. kthx!"
<brousch> next they will want you to make the page look like a TI-82
<brousch> maybe add a little solar cell image near the top
<rick_h_> snap-l: where's post-MUG been lately?
<snap-l> brousch: Nah, HP12C
<snap-l> Shields
<snap-l> They have an awesome veggie pizza, if I might say so
<rick_h_> cool
<rick_h_> boss is going to make the next few mug meetings he says and was curious
<snap-l> Very cool
<snap-l> Depending on how this meeting goes, I may be hitting him up for some favors. ;)
<rick_h_> hah, is that today?
<snap-l> Yep
<rick_h_> maybe we need BHC for you today then
<snap-l> rick_h_: Nah, I'll just bring a big ol' bottle of Kahlua to CHC, and ask them to "use that"
<snap-l> Speaking of which, time to add 75 people manually to a Live Meeting.
<snap-l> brb.
<rick_h_> ouch
<brousch> osx just keeps beckoning to rick_h_ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/02/apple_dumps_mysql_from_mac_os_x_server/
<rick_h_> "The previous version of the OS â Snow Leopard Server "
<brousch> removed the admin gui from osx server, replaced mysql with postgres
<rick_h_> they have a server? I wasn't aware you could get that any more :P
<brousch> http://www.apple.com/macosx/server/
<rick_h_> brousch: sorry, was being sarcastic
<rick_h_> just mean that with no server product, I'm not sure those are flying off the shelf
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> I mean, who cares what's in OSX server? but I am always happy to see mysql get beat up a bit
<rick_h_> our last staff meeting was fun. Got to use my cool phrase "don't use a database that's defective by design..." 3 times :)
<brousch> i'll bet that doesn't annoy anyone
<rick_h_> the 3rd time I got the hand :)
<jrwren> anyone have issues with the latest samba package updates?
<jrwren> but its industrial standard.
<jrwren> but its webscale.
<rick_h_> heh, we keep hitting crap that's meant to help myisam work out but then causes innodb issues
<rick_h_> and we're not going ot myisam any time soon
<jrwren> ewe
<snap-l> Innodb is what happens when a MyISAM and a journal get together and make a database.
<snap-l> GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
<snap-l> Dear Outlook: please to be giving me email addresses and KNOCK OFF THIS NAME SHIT.
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> grrr... apt and dpkg are great... until they aren't.
<snap-l> I'm impressed. Our IT folks have created the unclickable and un-copy-paste-able link.
<snap-l> In a PDF, no less.
<jrwren> underline and color blue in an image!
<snap-l> No, even better
<jrwren> all my docs are png. its "secure"
<snap-l> has all sorts of meta characters in it.
<snap-l> It's awesome.
<jrwren> kewl
<greg-g> wow, so it was on purpose?
<snap-l> greg-g: Not to my knowledge
<greg-g> oh, then, holy cow they're "special"
<snap-l> I think it's just someone's PDF generator "doing the right thing"
<snap-l> Christ, I think I figured out this Livemeeting thing
<snap-l> there's some tools package that made it work better.
<snap-l> But man, what a colossal pain in the ass
<snap-l> Seems to be a theme. ;)
<brousch> tools causing pains in your ass is the theme?
<greg-g> brousch: dude, do you see what you did to The_Machine? He joined, you said that, then he left probably very scared by what might be said next! ;)
<greg-g> oh good, they're back
<brousch> but he's back. he was actually intrigued
<greg-g> haha
 * The_Machine grins
<The_Machine> i can't help myself.
<brousch> greg-g: i like how you did not assume The_Machine's gender
<The_Machine> you shouldn't.
<brousch> i know, that is why greg-g is at least 10x more awesome than i am
<greg-g> brousch: I did at first, but then I unassumed it
 * The_Machine is a eunuch
<greg-g> duly noted
<brousch> i suppose "it" would've been the best choice
<greg-g> The_Machine: have we met in real life?
<The_Machine> i don't believe so..  though i've met my share of IRC'ers
<The_Machine> i haven't been to a meetup or anything
<greg-g> Gotcha
<greg-g> I'm in Ann Arbor, and mostly go to things around there and in Detroit
<greg-g> So, assuming we haven't met, welcome to the channel and nice to meet you :)
<The_Machine> word.  i'm formerly from ferndale, now a nomad
<greg-g> awesome
<The_Machine> ah, i've been coming here for a long time :)
<The_Machine> but i don't fire up IRC too often
<greg-g> wait, do you talk?
<greg-g> ahh
<greg-g> I don't remember any conversations we've had, oops :)
<The_Machine> no worries
<greg-g> so, welcome to my longer term memory ;)
<The_Machine> actually, now that I am talking
<The_Machine> I used ubuntu, fedora, etc. for my primary OS at my last job a few years ago
<The_Machine> and right now i'm so heavily windows focused I can't afford to do that
<jrwren> are you who Andrews Eldritch was singing about when he sang "I hear the roar of the big Machine" ?
<The_Machine> but i'd love to go deeper, but don't have the time
<The_Machine> any classes in the area you would recommend?
<greg-g> The_Machine: ahh, time. the eternal problem
<snap-l> jrwren: I think we're the only folks who got that joke. ;)
<The_Machine> i'm more on the win sysadmin side right now
<jrwren> snap-l: i figured.
<The_Machine> but i'm willing to leave the dark side eventually
<greg-g> The_Machine: classes? I can't think of one, unfortunately.
<jrwren> snap-l: so it was for your benefit
<snap-l> heh
<The_Machine> i know that macomb community college offers some
<greg-g> The_Machine: though, I would suggest hitting up some of the LUGs/other user groups around the area
<greg-g> ahh, snap-l might know more about Macomb than I
<snap-l> Only a little bit
<jrwren> The_Machine: windows isn't hte dark side, freebsd and gentoo is the darkside.
<snap-l> mostly from a faculty perspective.
<The_Machine> i know nothing about them (outside of having heard of them a lot from forums, /., etc
 * greg-g nods
<The_Machine> i know i'll get flamed
<The_Machine> by why are they the dark side?
<greg-g> so, MUG (mug.org) is good, but 45 minute drive from A2. They meet monthly.
<jrwren> The_Machine: i learned a lot by just trying to replace windows services with linux. you could start there. you don't really need classes for that.
<jrwren> no flames. this is a flame free zone.
<brousch> it is?
<jrwren> no flames. this is a flame free zone.
<greg-g> WLUG is also good for your basics as well. Friendly folks run that one. Really, the folks running these groups are all friendly.
<The_Machine> yea, mostly wanted to not waste anyone's time
<brousch> The_Machine: so you're on the east side of michigan?
<greg-g> oh, no one who is at one of those groups will think talking about Linux with someone wanting to get back involved/more involved is a waste of time
<The_Machine> in bloomfield at the moment
<snap-l> The_Machine: I'd recommend heading to MUG
 * The_Machine nods
<snap-l> The_Machine: It's on the Second Tuesday of every month, and is very friendly.
<greg-g> oh, then you'd want MUG, yeah
<jrwren> Macomb Twp? or just county?
<The_Machine> oakland county
<snap-l> Macomb CC is county
<jrwren> oh, you saic Macomb CC, so i figured you were near there.
<The_Machine> i just know macomb college was offering linux classes
<rick_h_> oh, you're my way
<The_Machine> that's why i mentioned it
 * jrwren confused.
<jrwren> I'm sure OCC offers 'em too... but classes are so... meh. :)
<jrwren> is your nat router messed up or something?
<jrwren> dropping you every few minutes?
<jrwren> I'm sure OCC offers 'em too... but classes are so... meh. :)
<The_Machine> this connection is awful
<The_Machine> no, i'm on a guest network
<The_Machine> yea, OCC blows for CS classes
<snap-l> I'm not sure MCC is much better
<snap-l> OK, time for meeting.
<rick_h_> good luck with the transfer :)
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
<jrwren> OU isn't good either ;(
<The_Machine> and expensive and slightly evil.
<brousch> remember my recent large pdf printing/conversion problems? it turns out this is an increasingly common problem, at least for people with our type of plotter (KIP). i'm thinking about putting together a pre-printing conversion box to alleviate some of the pain
<rick_h_> pre-printing...seems a bit impossible to print before you print
<brousch> convert the troublesome pdfs to tif
<brousch> drop them into a watched folder, convert them on a multi-cpu server (or the cloud), email when it's done
<brousch> slap a nice gui on it and it seems like a real product
<snap-l> Oh, this is brilliant.
<brousch> at a minimum it would be a nice open source project for people like me
<snap-l> I finished my demo already.
<snap-l> scheduled time 1:30
<brousch> ut oh
<rick_h_> yay! mission complete
<greg-g> heh, yay for being done early. and ooops, done early :)
<Wolfger> 'The word "hacker" evokes all kinds of scary images.'..... It does?
<Wolfger> http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/web/08/03/jeff.moss.black.hat/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
<jrwren> o_O
<jrwren> so... 15minutes instead of 90 minutes?  how did you do that?
<Blazeix> Wolfger: yes?
<Blazeix> for CNN's target audience
<Wolfger> Blazeix: even if you subscribe to the common misconception that hacker == criminal, I still don't think many people view them as "scary"
<rick_h_> Wolfger: have your identify stolen lately?
<Blazeix> I guess we'll just disagree then. I think most people view hackers as people that will mess up their facebook and steal data
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> I'm with Blazeix here
<jrwren> most people also believe in god and eat mcdonalds. and think that miley cyrus is cool and/or cute.
<jrwren> but its a real bummer that the hacker v. cracker definition cause hasn't made progress
<Wolfger> rick_h_: no. Blazeix: I don't think "mess up your facebook" counts as scary, and most people practically give their data away (i.e. to Facebook and Zynga games)
<rick_h_> the people that would forward the cause don't care because they know the diff
<rick_h_> Wolfger: right, but to my wife it's scary if someone gets to their facebook data
<rick_h_> she doesn't consider it "giving her data away"
<Wolfger> fair enough
<rick_h_> it's just normal use
<Wolfger> I guess I'm too far removed from normal folk
<jrwren> you should reeducate her.
<jrwren> facebook owns allyour shit.
<rick_h_> I try, but come across as a bit of a crazy when I try to say that you can't talk to your friends on there any more
<jrwren> talk is fine.
<jrwren> just know that its just like email... they are watching it all.
<jrwren> and as for photos/video... they own it all.
<rick_h_> yea, I try to get that across and all
<jrwren> you gave it to them.
<rick_h_> but still, if someone got in there and changed/added stuff she'd feel violoated/scary
<jrwren> maybe you should do that to shake her up a bit :)
<Blazeix> that being said, google has access to all my email and pictures
<Blazeix> and they scan through it for advertisements
<jrwren> i try not to use any of that shit.
<jrwren> duckduckgo FTW
<jrwren> at least picasa's privacy policy is more reasonable.
<Blazeix> I use ddg for searches, but they're lacking in the email provider department
<jrwren> with facebook they can use those photos and resell them
<jrwren> email - run your own :)
<jrwren> or use a $3/mo web host email account
<rick_h_> yea, because that'll be safer from the hackers
<rick_h_> :P
<jrwren> i trust bluehost... a little.
<jrwren> but I don't use their email.
<jrwren> i've run my own for too long. i like running it
<brousch> trust google. your data is valuable to them
<greg-g> that's one way to put it
<Wolfger> I used to run my own website and my own e-mail. Then some hacker decided to start using my domain name to send spam, and things went downhill very rapidly. Didn't have the time, patience, or resources to deal with it, so I just gave it all up, moved to Blogger and Gmail.
<snap-l> Bah, you can secure things pretty well. ;)
<jrwren> i have the time an patience.
<jrwren> SPF works surprisingly well for that case
<Wolfger> same reason I dumped Gentoo... decided I had better things to do with my time :-p
<Wolfger> Let Google pay somebody to deal with my problems
<snap-l> Gah, that's done.
<snap-l> The good news is I think I still have a job.
<gamerchick02> congratulations, snap-l.
<gamerchick02> i guess?
<gamerchick02> did you want to keep your job, or did you want to join the ranks of the unclean?
<jrwren> i'd love to be unemployed, but I'm too scared.
<gamerchick02> i live with my mommy
<jrwren> i am calling the bank for last payment on my condo.
<jrwren> so similar cost of living ;)
<_stink_> nice!
<gamerchick02> nice. congrats on paying off the condo!
<rick_h_> brousch: is up http://blip.tv/pyohio/django-and-google-app-engine-why-i-m-using-flask-and-amazon-ec2-5437519
<jrwren> woot
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Well, my budget wanted me to keep my job
<jrwren> my budget does too ;(
<gamerchick02> hah! makes sense.
<snap-l> jrwren: Awesome on keeping up with your condo payments!
<jrwren> although... i seriously think I should just get rid of vonage.
<gamerchick02> you're not independently wealthy.
<gamerchick02> vonage? i've never used it.
<jrwren> its just $17/mo for phone over the internet that I rarely use.
<snap-l> brousch: Funny enough, I know Kathleen from Hope
<rick_h_> jrwren: we do the same with broadvoice
<rick_h_> I keep wanting to cancel it
<jrwren> but my mom calls the number occasionally, and things that "can't be a cell phone" are tied to that number.
<rick_h_> wife feels better that there's a "home phone"
<jrwren> last time I tried to cancel vonage, they talked me into staying by getting me on a super low usage plan that they don't even advertise.
<_stink_> we have the same home phone argument.
<jrwren> since it stayed under $20/mo, I agreed.
<jrwren> i've said for 5-6 yrs - as long as we've had the vonage - that I'd get a UPS for the cable modem and vonage so that phone would still work without power... but i have not done it.
<gamerchick02> i move, i'll get a basic telephone service just so i can run DSL
<gamerchick02> not sure though.
<jrwren> cable modem is LOTS faster where I am at.
<brousch> rick_h_: thanks for the heads up
<brousch> snap-l: the girl's name was jessica
<snap-l> Thenk you have the wrong person
<snap-l> At least I never knew her as Jessica
<brousch> not cmdr taco's wife, a girl he dated before that
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<brousch> at least according to her
<snap-l> I feel we've had this conversation before. :)
<brousch> indeed
<brousch> we're like old married people now, telling the same old stories
<brousch> ug. this talk is painful to watch
<jrwren> man, I didn't even recognize Wil Wheaton on Eureka.
<snap-l> brousch: Dude, youdid fine
<snap-l> Don't second-guess your talks.
<brousch> it got better after the first few minutes
<brousch> i like that the video guy switched to showing just the slides so you don't see me just reading
<jrwren> reading????
<jrwren> no reading allowed!
<rick_h_> leave it jrwren :P
<rick_h_> he did good, got people thinking which was cool
<brousch> dayum. i started testing my pdf conversion script on a new batch of pdfs. it sucks up 3GB
<brousch> of ram
<greg-g> what were you doing with it anyways?
<brousch> converting it from pdf to tif using imagemagick
<brousch> i think these are 36"x48", which is the biggest we deal with
<brousch> (36in*400dpi)*(48in*400dpi)*8bpp = really fing big
<brousch> dropping to 300dpi keeps it out of my swap
<brousch> oh very nice. these pdfs were apparently produced using PDFTron's PDFNET software, and they are being flagged as badly formed. http://www.pdftron.com/
<brousch> the web site doesn't even load for me
<rick_h_> brousch:         $('#calc').bind('click', function (ev) {
<rick_h_>             ev.preventDefault();
<rick_h_>             $($g.EVID).trigger($g.events.recalc);
<rick_h_>         });
<rick_h_> oops
<rick_h_> brousch: http://vimeo.com/27186463
<rick_h_> kind of cool
<greg-g> brousch: sorry, meant, what were you doing with the RAM anyways?
<brousch> greg-g: heh
<snap-l> brousch: Maybe you could put them on the cloud somewhere. I hear that's the answer for everything now
<greg-g> tape backups in the cloud!
<rick_h_> greg-g: it's called s3 :)
<brousch> snap-l: well, spinning up an EC2 instance with like 8GB or ram to do it is actually an answer
<greg-g> rick_h_: http://identi.ca/conversation/74489766
<krondor> rick_h_:  s3 too expensive for long term tape storage I feel.  You'd best look at one of those rsync online solutions.
<snap-l> greg-g: Snicker.
<rick_h_> krondor: even if you go with the reduced redundancy?
<greg-g> I love using an artful troll to troll others
<rick_h_> besides, you need offsite storage anyway
<rick_h_> that's the part people seem to leave out
<rick_h_> "it's cheaper for me to tape it here" but then there's no mention of the offsite solution unless we're just assuming they're rotating them nightly when they go home each night
<krondor> how so, it's offsite if it's on rsync vendor anyway right.. and you can double the redundancy yourself for still less then s3, but I know it's not as slick or buzzwordy
<rick_h_> sorry, haven't looked at the rsync vendor
<krondor> http://rsync.net/
<krondor> cheap
<snap-l> Wow, Microsoft really knows how to advertise Office 365
<rick_h_> huh? $1.40 with redundant storage, .14/GB for s3 storage. All data transfer in is free
<rick_h_> I must be missing something
<krondor> get/put/ and transfer fees
<rick_h_> right, but transfer in is the big one and that's free. Out sure
<rick_h_> I guess I'd be curious to see the use case used to do the cost analysis
<rick_h_> to come up with that 10x the price is "cheap" vs s3
<rick_h_> you're still compressing your backups and such right? Or are we talking about straight one file per file?
<rick_h_> I guess that's the advantage of the rsync is that it's not caught up in a .tar.bz2
<rick_h_> but even then I'd assume you're rsync compressed tarballs
<krondor> yeah if s3 sure I'd tar it up, but with rsync I'd ship straight files and --compress switch
<rick_h_> especially if every GB counts
<rick_h_> right, but you still get billed for that storage, I'd still want to compress on the rsync plan
<rick_h_> ok, whatever I guess.
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah, hadn't seen that one
<krondor> yeah that's true, I keep getting stuck thinking about http://blog.backblaze.com/2011/07/20/petabytes-on-a-budget-v2-0revealing-more-secrets/
<rick_h_> yea, but that's building your own hardware in a rack with power/AC and such
<krondor> even doing that you need to find a place to colo with cheap bandwidth/power per u (and that seems harder these days)
<rick_h_> and willing to give you enough power to push those beasts of machines
<krondor> that's a lot of power
<rick_h_> so yea, if you want to build your own S3 clone, cheap! :)
<krondor> I feel like s3 has gotten cheaper since I looked last,  so I'll concede the online backup vendors might not be cheaper then s3 anymore.  Perhaps, but it depends on use case...
<krondor> I still want to roll my own though, I keep pushing my work to let me r&d a storage pod and skunkworks EMC out the door.
<rick_h_> definitely, the upload bandwidth is free is this year, the prices have gone down twice in the last year I think
<rick_h_> all good, I was just curious what rsync vendor was cheaper. I might check into it :)
<krondor> the rsync.net order form has their volume discount breakout.  I like their open source lean too obviously.
<rick_h_> ok, yea I mean their max discount is more like 3x the s3 which might make sense once you get your requests/bandwidth out into account
<ptenhoopen> krondor:  They looked decent when I was looking into such things.
<snap-l> i think the only way you might not want to consider S3 is to have total control of your data
<rick_h_> well that and tools
<snap-l> but maintaining control is extremely tricky.
<snap-l> rick_h_: too
<rick_h_> I mean rsync is nice and everywhere
<rick_h_> s3 you'll have fun doing some scripts/reusing some
<snap-l> I wish S3 supported rsync
<snap-l> Hell, I wish everything supported rsync
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> http://stolowski.blogspot.com/2011/07/finding-your-way-in-vim.html
<snap-l> My toaster should support rsync
<rick_h_> vim peeps go check it out
<rick_h_> but love getting my $3 bill from s3 each month
<rick_h_> wow, wtf...I had 1.3 million requests last month
<rick_h_> woo, another pyohio video up.../me watches
<greg-g> wow, that is smart. If you buy Humble Bundle 3 above the current average you also get HB2
<rick_h_> yea, training everyone to pay a higher rate next time
<snap-l> ;)
<greg-g> but I already bought HB2, and I paid over the average, and I want HB1 :)
<snap-l> HB2 had access to HB1
<greg-g> snap-l: oh? /me looks
<krondor> what's the deal with this quakeworld thingy?  Is it team clan arena mod for q1?  Are the floors stickey?  I might enter, but not if I can't bunny hop ;)
<krondor> oh crap that was his exit not entrance
<greg-g> TeamXlink: re piracy of uploading vs mailing: A) don't use the word piracy, it is only used by people who try to demonize things they don't like and tug at politicians' emotions. B) it is a copyright infringment because you are *making a copy* of the bit without permission.
<greg-g> s/bit/bits/
 * snap-l feels chastised. :)
<rick_h_> the master has spoken!
<snap-l> Paging Blazeix to the white courtesy phone. :)
<Blazeix> snap-l: yo
<snap-l> HEy, would you be able to contact the Farmington Library for September?
<snap-l> on behalf of MUG?
<snap-l> Apparently the ESD has a problem with scheduling, and we're getting bumped again.
<Blazeix> sure, did you see my reply to Dave?
<snap-l> Not yet. :)
<snap-l> Thank you.
<snap-l> What does everyone use for their podcatcher?
<snap-l> (Other than their phone)
<Blazeix> google reader
<Blazeix> (and google listen to integrate with it)
<snap-l> Blergh
<gamerchick02> gpodder.
<greg-g> banshee?
<gamerchick02> banshee doesn't work the way i want it to. for podcasts, i mean
<gamerchick02> works for all my other audio.
<snap-l> Banshee is kind of a pain in the ass
<snap-l> I might try gpodder, but it just seems like "one mmore thing to run"
<snap-l> bah, this shouldn't be this hard.
<gamerchick02> that and VLC.
<brousch> snap-l and other pythonistas https://home.eease.com/recruit2/?id=732421&t=2
<gamerchick02> i queue my podcasts in vlc
 * snap-l needs to just buckle down and write my python podcatcher.
<snap-l> brousch: Sourceforge?
<brousch> yep
<brousch> well, geeknet
<snap-l> Yeah
<brousch> you saw it already, didn't you?
<snap-l> Likely, but I applied anyway
<snap-l> What the hell. :)
<brousch> good luck
<snap-l> Worst case they can say yes
<gamerchick02> off for a book. see everyone after i get back from my interview. if i get this job, i might be able to attend CHC, yay!
<greg-g> snap-l: our dents are kind of apropos of each other :)
<greg-g> maybe I should just join the Red Wine Only health plan.
<snap-l> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-04
<snap-l> Yeah, I know. Health insurance is great as long as you don't get sick.
<greg-g> but then you feel like a schmuck for paying so much each month
<snap-l> Good evening
<_stink_> hi
<snap-l> Gah, I'm feeling really dumb about these sessions
<snap-l> Trying to update an episode to be downloaded
<snap-l> and figuring out the special syntax sauce for this is driving me nuts.
<snap-l> I can see why people don't like SQLAlchemy
<snap-l> I mean, I'd like to have it just do episode.downloaded = True
<snap-l> and just have it work
<snap-l> But instead I have to wrap it in a manager class, and blah blah blah blah
<jrwren> just write an update statement :)
<Blazeix> I only have a very basic knowledge of sqlalchemy, but isn't the manager pattern self-imposed?
<Blazeix> I'd think you'd do somethig like session.update(episode) to actually do the update
<Blazeix> after setting episode.downloaded = true
<snap-l> I don't have the vocabulary to explain
<snap-l> https://github.com/craigmaloney/Piddlepodder-Python
<Blazeix> awesome project name :P
<snap-l> piddlepodder was the original. ;)
<snap-l> made it really easy to do a google-alert.
<Blazeix> ok, it seems like if you get the episode from the db via some query, you should be able to say something like episode.downloaded = True
<Blazeix> then maybe you have to flush the session / commit the transaction
<snap-l> Right.
<snap-l> and I'm not sure how to get that to happen
<Blazeix> but if it's just an individual episode you're updating, I don't see any reason to deal with a manager
<Blazeix> does session.flush() not work?
<snap-l> Asking in sqlalchemy if there's a way to make it so that if that flag changes, it'll just write it
<snap-l> I'm not sure where to put the session-handling code
<snap-l> Frankly, this manager pattern is a pain in the ass. :)
<Blazeix> if you want to get fancy you could make a transaction decorator that would handle everything for you
<snap-l> I understand why it's needed, but it's really making things annoying. ;)
<Blazeix> I think I like the manager pattern, assuming it's no different from the repository pattern.
<Blazeix> ah, when you commit(), flush() happens automatically
<snap-l> Yeah,
<snap-l> bloody hell, even setting autocommit=True in the session_maker doesn't manage to do the commits
<_stink_> hah, 30 seconds ago i was screwing with the same thing in sqlalchemy :P
<_stink_> but mine's in a fabfile in a pyramid project and i had a nice example in bookie.
<Blazeix> so what would it do ideally for you? issue a sql statement after every single property change?
<snap-l> yes
<snap-l> Reason being that once a file is downloaded, that's the last time I want to download it
<snap-l> was the whole reason for piddlepodder in the first place (vs. bashpodder)
<Blazeix> I'd be surprised if that functionality existed, generally for ORMs I think the pattern is `get object, manipulate the hell out of object, save object`
<Blazeix> so it issues an update statement after you're done making _all_ your changes
<snap-l> THat's not my use case at all
<snap-l> I don't need a cache, I just need persistence
<Blazeix> in the future could you potentially add a 'last retrieved date' ?
<Blazeix> that would make your use case more align with the orm
<Blazeix> we should ping rick_h_ :)
<snap-l> I'm not sure that would help
<snap-l> Here's the scenario:
<snap-l> start up session, get latest feeds, start processing
<snap-l> deedle deedle dee
<snap-l> suddenly, power cuts out
<snap-l> or program aborts... something
<snap-l> what's the state? do I have to download those files again?
<snap-l> ideally, once the file is downloaded, I just tick it off, and that's the end of it
<Blazeix> ok, so can you just commit after each download?
<snap-l> If I knew how, yes. ;)
<snap-l> But this session bullshit is making me think that nbody writes sqlalchemy that passes between files.
<snap-l> Or you have to be a rockstar like rick_h_ to figure it out.
<snap-l> I tried putting it in the manager class, but that didn't seem to work out too well. Seemed more complicated than it needed to be.
<Blazeix> so if in __init__.py you said "from models import Session"
<Blazeix> then called Session.commit(), what happens?
<Blazeix> since Session is defined in your models.py
<Blazeix> called "Session.commit()" immediately after you set downloaded=True)(
<snap-l> Hah, no transaction is begun.
<Blazeix> do you still have autocommit=True?
<Blazeix> try making that False, if so. autocommit=True does transaction funniness.
<snap-l> Oh FFS.
<snap-l> OK, added the session
<snap-l> and added "Session.begin()" and "Session.commit() to wrap the transaction.
<snap-l> and that seemed to work.
<Blazeix> ok, that's with autocommit=True, right?
<snap-l> yes
<Blazeix> so you should be able to remove autocommit=True (so it's false), and remove your Session.begin()
<Blazeix> if I'm reading the docs right
<snap-l> Trying that now
<snap-l> I'm sure rick_h_ will yell at us for this in the AM.
<snap-l> Awesome. That appears to work
<Blazeix> well, I'll be asleep when that happens, so you'll take brunt of the force :P
<snap-l> Going to commit the code I have.
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> Thanks for the assist!
<Blazeix> no problem. it's kind of fun to compare this to the C#/Java world of ORMs.
<greg-g> g'morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> looks like I missed all the fun
<brousch> me too, apparently
<snap-l> Hood moening
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> Nice. I  can type
<brousch> wow
<rick_h_> snap-l: so let me know when you're ready for the sqlalchemy discussion to resume. I'll let you get your coffee first
<snap-l> ho boy
<snap-l> :)
<brousch> coffee's not strong enough
<brousch> go for shots of espresso
<rick_h_> dammit, my talk still isn't up
<snap-l> Trying to get a zit off of my eyelid
<snap-l> So typing w/ one hand while holding a microwaved washcloth
<snap-l> with one eye open
<Wolfger> eww
<Wolfger> I cannot imagine a worse place to have a zit
<brousch> seriously wtf man
<snap-l> TRust me, not my idea
<Wolfger> I don't know...
<Wolfger> Is this the "it wasn't my idea" that comes after something in your plan goes awry?
<Wolfger> I've seen that before...
<snap-l> Har har
<Wolfger> "You know what'd be hard core? A zit on my eyelid. That's be so badas-ow! Ow, ow, ow! Who's idea was this?"
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> I can't believe I typed that.... s/who\'s/whose/
<Wolfger> maybe I should actually sleep tonight. :-p
<Wolfger> ok, Identica is dead to me.
<Wolfger> can't log in, can't log in with OpenID, can't recover password
<brousch> they kicked you out for not being freetarded enough
<Wolfger> quite possibly
<greg-g> :(
<snap-l> Wolfger: They have a support channel.
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/doc/contact
<snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/08/04/internet-explorer-users-and-mass-media-prove-theyre-all-dumb/
<Wolfger> What some people don't get, is that everybody is dumb (about certain things)
<Wolfger> Lots of people are dumb about computers. Others are dumb about sports. I'm pretty dumb about cars (and I work where?)...
<Wolfger> When you're a professional in a field, lots and lots of other people look dumb. But when you step into their field of expertise, chances are that you look dumb too.
<nullspace> I don't think IE users are dumb, ignorant...maybe
<nullspace> then there are the thousands who are forced to use IE because their company forces them adhear to policy
<snap-l> It's a hoax. You're OK.
<snap-l> Nobody is calling you dumb
<nullspace> hahahaha
<snap-l> unless you're suing that hoaxer, in which case I'm calling you dumn
<nullspace> I understand that
<nullspace> but I was citing my opinion rather than a rebuttal
<Wolfger> ignorant is just another word for "too dumb to know better" :-D
<Wolfger> now being forced to use IE is different. In those cases, the policy maker is dumb :-)
<nullspace> but they are still an IE user
<brousch> they are dumb for working at a company that enforces an IE-only policy
<nullspace> I think it's pretty clear that broad sweeping generalizations are half truths at best
<nullspace> brousch: if they paid you enough I don't think you'd care
<Wolfger> true dat
<brousch> my price to be foreced to use IE is quite high
<brousch> it is hard to give up freedom once you've tasted it
 * Wolfger continues to work with the underground resistance
<nullspace> IE 9 isn't so bad, they are following standards now
<brousch> but you also have to use Windows
<nullspace> you try setting up a L2TP IPSEC VPN client on linux
<nullspace> windows has it's place just as linux does
<nullspace> oh man what was the name that symantic gave their network based anti-virius suites
<jjesse> .cloud or something like that?
<snap-l> rick_h_: The student is ready. Will the master appear? :)
<rick_h_> heh, ok
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/370/
<rick_h_> snap-l: ^^ that's basically what it boils down to
<rick_h_> oh, and never do auto anything, it's a sure sign of trouble since you don't really understand/konw what's going on
<snap-l> Right, but wasn't sure how to get the session into the file that i'm using.
<rick_h_> you can just import it
<snap-l> syntax
<rick_h_> from models import Session
<snap-l> I was just having trouble with syntax
<rick_h_> you can add it to the top with the rest of the models
<snap-l> https://github.com/craigmaloney/Piddlepodder-Python/commit/da7b380f6d59917f4df11d6844f8a22ac30202e3
<rick_h_> right, but you're commiting in a loop
<rick_h_> commit() basically finishes the transaction
<snap-l> Which is what I want
<rick_h_> naw, a flush will do
<rick_h_> with a Session.commit() at the end of your script
<snap-l> If the loop fails for whatever reason I don't want to lose the work I've done
<rick_h_> try: finally: Session.commit()
<snap-l> (why is this hard to explain to people)
<rick_h_> snap-l: that's fine, but then you need to manually manage the transaction
<snap-l> If there is a power failure, I don't want to have to redownload everything
<snap-l> And by "manually manage the transaction", how is my commit in the loop not doing that? :)
<rick_h_> you session auto creates a transaction. .commit() finishes it
<rick_h_> so you'll hit stuff where you need to start a new one each time
<snap-l> Right, and the unit of work is episode downloaded, write to the database.
<rick_h_> http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/core/connections.html#using-transactions
<snap-l> and it's at this point that I'm starting to think that ORMs are a huge pain in the ass.
<snap-l> or at least not fitting my idea of what should be going on with my data.
<rick_h_> http://www.mail-archive.com/pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com/msg17220.html or http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/orm/session.html#sqlalchemy.orm.session.Session.__init__ for autocommit
<rick_h_> the thing is that usually people don't want to do this.
<rick_h_> the download should be outside of this, async, and a trigger to mark the record updated on it's own
<rick_h_> but yea, you can do things the way you want, but it's not the default because it's poor porformance for most workloads
<snap-l> rick_h_: Right, that's a tradeoff I'm willing to take. :)
<snap-l> worst case for even the best case of download transfer is a commit a second.
<snap-l> Thanks for the pointer. I'll make this a little more sane. :)
<Wolfger> "reality TV" has jumped the shark... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1107/bearding.whisker.wars/content.1.html
<greg-g> Wolfger: dude, I am so excited for that show! The first time ever since Real World (the first season) was over!
<Wolfger> Seriously? I'm a fan of facial hair, but a TV show about a facial hair competition?
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Wolfger: If this is the first time you think that reality TV has jumped the shark, you haven't been paying attention
<Wolfger> I'm pretty certain I've said it's jumped the shark before, too
<greg-g> you've jumped the shark!
<Wolfger> doh!
<greg-g> actually, that'd be pretty sweet if you pulled a fonzie
<Wolfger> what, do something totally out of character that makes no sense?
<Wolfger> hmm
<greg-g> no, ski jumping over a fricking shark, man
<Wolfger> well, that would count as something out of character that makes no sense...
<Wolfger> and it would be cool, I guess
<Wolfger> as long as I don't break a limb on landing
<greg-g> if you can't tell, I'm seriously checked out from my job right now, even though I keep getting these damned requests to do lots of work before I leave
<brousch> greg-g, the lame-duck librarian
<snap-l> greg-g: When are you leaving the mitten?
<greg-g> Aug 10th
<greg-g> last day of work is Aug 9th
<greg-g> brousch: my boss even called me today (she is traveling right now) and said "Sorry about all these things we're asking you to do, you should be doing nothing right now"
<brousch> and you probably would be if you didn't actually care about your job ;)
<greg-g> yeah, damn my sense of responsibility!
<brousch> it helps that you're not working for a soulless corp of evil
 * brousch glances at snap-l
<snap-l> brousch: Sorry, I would care about that statement had I not checked my soul in at the door.
<Wolfger> bazinga
<nullspace> rick_h_: any interest in helping orgnaize a barCamp at i3 this coming Fall?
<rick_h_> nullspace: sorry, not this fall. Getting conference'd out
<Wolfger> uh-oh. I never realized rick_h_ was a scarce resource. We've been taking it for granted. :-(
<rick_h_> just bookie needs some serious love. Too distracted over pyohio
<rick_h_> and we're going to try to refire lococast, so some work there
<rick_h_> and then I've got to talk at this 1devday in Nov
<snap-l> great, im getting refired on lococast
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> refired?
<Wolfger> wasn't getting fired once enough for you?
<snap-l> I'm not sure if I can collect unemployment. ;)
<jrwren> no lococast?
<snap-l> jrwren: More of a reboot than anything
<Blazeix> it will focus on Mac OS X this time around
<jrwren> oh no!
<snap-l> THough i don't think it's as much of a reboot because we're just doing what we've always done
<snap-l> just not focusing as much on the Ubuntu Loco foo
<brousch> poop on that. i'm unsubscribing
<rick_h_> yea, snap-l and I are arguing semantics
<rick_h_> It's going to turn more into the lococast dev show
<rick_h_> screw the loco, who cares about that any more :P
<greg-g> :(
<rick_h_> sorry greg-g :/
<rick_h_> I'm lacking the 'care about ubuntu' spirit these days
<greg-g> s'ok, but we're so much more than just Ubuntu in here!
<Wolfger> traitor
<rick_h_> no definitely :)
<rick_h_> not /wc'ing here
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> jsut not going to try to find podcast material out of hte ubuntu world any more
 * greg-g nods
<Wolfger> woot
<Wolfger> the ubuntu world is too small and inbred
<rick_h_> hah
<Wolfger> hard to find anything that hasn't already been talked to death, or soon will be
<greg-g> true of anything
<rick_h_> yea, that's not it
<rick_h_> just that if you're going to keep up with new, sift through it, and add meaningful twist to it, you have to care
<Wolfger> ouch
<_stink_> i feel the same way about ubuntu... i love *this* community in this chan
<_stink_> and i use it
<_stink_> but i don't really care what's done with it.
<_stink_> since i'll just install my own stuff anyway
<_stink_> if someone asked me what the benefit is... i guess i'd say PPAs
<ColonelPanic001> I toss around the idea of just using plain debian sometimes, but I like that, at least compared to when I used to use deb unstable, Ubuntu is a little more polished, etc
<brousch> even in kde land?
<brousch> the blue headed stepchild?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, back then at least, deb unstable was sometimes living up to its name, seemed like
<ColonelPanic001> and stable was still using 1.0.0 kernel or something
<ColonelPanic001> I may exaggerate a little.
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> I think the real problem is that it's become too forma
<snap-l> l
<Wolfger> Kubuntu was nicely polished before KDE4...
<ColonelPanic001> I like KDE4 fine
<snap-l> Now it's like we have to be excited and shit just to keep our resgistration
 * Wolfger considers going back to Mepis
<ColonelPanic001> I don't have a problem with ubuntu, just don't really use the main thing, since 90% of the hype of it is Gnome
<snap-l> I'm sorry, but I can't get too excited about the changes.
<Wolfger> snap-l: considering the words I'm hearing, they'll probably blacklist us rather than re-up our registration :-p
<snap-l> That's fine.
<brousch> oooooh, a rogue loco?
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001: KDE4 is fine now that it's a little more mature, but Kubuntu never recovered to its previous state.
<snap-l> I guess I'm having a hard time getting excited anymore.
<jjesse> i find kubuntu quite easily used
<Wolfger> ./join #mi-loco
<brousch> snap-l: there are drugs for that
<snap-l> brousch: Maybe I need them
<brousch> check your spam folder
<snap-l> Feeling pretty meh lately.
<Wolfger> jjesse: maybe it's just my hardware then. Kubuntu blows hard on my laptop
<snap-l> Maybe it's that the pendulum is about to swing back
<Wolfger> and Ubuntu does not
<Wolfger> but Unity does
<brousch> I'm not particularly excited about Ubuntu, but I'm more excited about it than any other distro
<snap-l> brousch: That's definitely true
<jjesse> why should i be excited about a particular distro?  shouldn't i care about shit working correctly?
<Wolfger> brousch: come with me to Gentoo. You'll get excited all over again. :-)
<snap-l> jjesse: And we have a bingo
<brousch> Wolfger: suicidal is not the same as excited
<snap-l> Wolfger: "Holy fuck, it compiled and worked, and only broke half of the shit on my laptop"
<brousch> who compiles?
<snap-l> brousch: Gentoo
<snap-l> Gotta suck the marrow from your CPU one cycle at a time
<Wolfger> man... brousch dissed Gentoo without even knowing it compiled everything from source?
<jjesse> there is a lot of cool kde stuff coming out though
<jjesse> that's exciting, but i don't care what distro it runs on
<Wolfger> jjesse: I'll get excited about any distro that gives me a good KDE experience again
<snap-l> Also, I have a headache and am on Claritin, which makes me even more bitchy
<_stink_> at least it's not 95 degrees. :)
<snap-l> but I've been feeling that a lot lately
<snap-l> _stink_: true, that really makes me bitchy
<snap-l> Another big factor is feeling the need to get rid of a lot of cruft
<brousch> snap-l: is it the change of life?
<Wolfger> it is, aside from being overcast, beautiful weather outside
<brousch> maleopause?
<snap-l> brousch: This pirate is definitely looking at 40, yes
<brousch> you should've kicked me when you had the chance
<snap-l> brousch: Told you, I was probably supposed to hit you for something, but I was too excited to see you. :)
<greg-g> awww, that is the best male2male "I love you" I've ever seen!
<_stink_>  /join #male2male
<_stink_> anyone? no?
 * greg-g is there
 * _stink_ gives greg-g one cookie.
<_stink_> now that's going to be in my history for a while
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<Wolfger> it lives on the internet forever
<_stink_> good thing no one i know knows how to use the internet.
<brousch> greg-g: :P
<greg-g> it's so lonely in #male2male
<greg-g> I have a feeling it might stay that way until I least expect it
<Wolfger> I would be there in a heartbeat if I wasn't at work
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> it could be an advice for new fathers
<_stink_> advice chan
<Wolfger> sure it could
<rick_h_> hah, awesome
<Wolfger> but then it would be called #dad2dad
<_stink_> #dad2dad?? that clearly has an alternate meaning.
<brousch> i'm getting major props at work for an app i built yesterday
<greg-g> brousch: cool!
<brousch> http://utils.vdiw.net/leed500/
<Wolfger> good job
<_stink_> i just tried it
<brousch> the mill we buy steel from has to be within 500 miles of the job site for certain hippie green credits
<_stink_> i confess i don't get it.
<_stink_> ah, ok
<brousch> yeah, not much explanation on there.
<Wolfger> what does it have to do with LEED?
<Wolfger> nm, just read it
<brousch> it's quite silly when you think about it, but hey, that's the govt for you
<rick_h_> nice brousch
<greg-g> oh, that is neat looking when you search the address, but shouldn't it center the view of the map to the center of the circle (where the star is) each time?
<brousch> greg-g: thanks, now i have 3 bugs ;)
<Wolfger> greg-g is so negative
<brousch> do not look at the source code. you will cry
<_stink_> and sort by miles, smallest to largest?
<greg-g> brousch: I'm not allowed, bitbucket is asking for a user/pass
<brousch> heh, it's javascript
<greg-g> oh, well, there is that
<brousch> all of the mills are hard-coded in the javascript
<jjesse> so if i put my address w/ no city and no zip it still generates a list of places for me
<jjesse> how does it now that?
<brousch> jjesse: it's based on whatever google's geocoding api returns
<brousch> so probably google's best guess at what you meant
<jjesse> but if i put in a bogus address it still works
<greg-g> btw, #dad2dad is also lonely
<jjesse> so 4079 Park East Grand Rapids UT still reports
<jjesse> and puts the cirlce in UT
<_stink_> hah, i just put in "hargle bargle lane"
<brousch> right, so google's best guess
<_stink_> closest mill: Kalamazoo
<greg-g> looks like you can't do any jobs in Anchorage, AK
<brousch> well, no jobs that qualify for that LEED level/credit/whatever
 * greg-g nods
<brousch> the mill list is not complete
<rick_h_> anyone ever heard of anything in here? https://docs.google.com/a/mitechie.com/document/pub?id=1X5JAReZ-VM1DrD8BY-RsY9UCsT5so4IeLlTlYaYbeLI&pli=1
<rick_h_> the companies/etc?
<snap-l> I've heard of Quicken Loans
<snap-l> Fathead does wall graphics (I think they're local)
<snap-l> http://www.redenvelope.com/
<snap-l> Fathead is local (livonia)
<snap-l> Ho boy
<snap-l> David Katzman David is the founder and Managing Partner of Camelot Venture Group. He also is a member of the Board of Directors for Sharper Image online, CleanRest, ePrize, and Simplex Diabetics.
<brousch> i've heard of sharper image, quicken loans, 1-800-contacts, fathead,
<brousch> ouch. $10,000/yr to put that app behind a paywall or move off the public internet
<rick_h_> brousch: huh?
<brousch> that leed app
<rick_h_> who's charging $10k?
<brousch> $10,000/yr for a license from google to allow for-pay service or firewall it
<rick_h_> oh, gotcha
<snap-l> ugh
<brousch> the boss got big dollar signs in his eyes, i had to crush them
<jjesse> can you use openstreet view or whatever ?
<_stink_> rewrite google maps!
<brousch> _stink_: that's definitely high on my priority list
<brousch> jjesse: that's a good question
<_stink_> o/
<_stink_> put me on your corporate board please
<rick_h_> me too, I use maps so I'm totally qualified to help guide your new startup
<jjesse> i like to get paid for doing nothing so put me on your board
<brousch> oooh, leedtools.us isn't taken
<brousch> openstreetmap is CC-BY-SA
<brousch> i think that means i can't sell it
<snap-l> As long as there isn't a NC in there, you should be OK, as long as you attribute, and share
<brousch> Can I charge for distributing OSM data or data derived from OSM data?Yes. You can charge any amount of money you want for any service or data you provide. However, since the data (or service) that is derived from OSM data must be licensed as above, other people may then redistribute this without payment.
<snap-l> so, you can use it commercially
<brousch> the only real data i'm using is the geocoder to get a lat/lng from an address, and then map tiles
<snap-l> hhhh
<rick_h_> iii
<snap-l> shhh
<rick_h_> docs docs docs
<_stink_> holy jeebus, unicode in python 2.7 is ANNOYING
<rick_h_> lol, well it's gotten better
<rick_h_> but it's prepping for 3
<_stink_> any advice on generating a random unicode string?  mostly curious at this point.
<_stink_> i can generate all kinds of random bytes, but of course, most of it is not unicode.
<rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/tutorial/introduction.html#unicode-strings
<rick_h_> some example strings in there
<_stink_> well, i think i get unicode ok.
<_stink_> i mean, how it's handled.
<rick_h_> what's the issue?
<_stink_> i was trying to see if i could generate a random unicode string.
<_stink_> i can generate all kinds of random bytes, but of course, most of it is not unicode.
<rick_h_> well, you want utf-8 bytes?
<_stink_> yeah
<rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8#Description
<rick_h_> so you'd want to do 'x\uxxxx'
<rick_h_> where xxxx is a random hex value from 0000 through FFFF
<_stink_> ahh
<_stink_> ok
<_stink_> that clicks
<_stink_> thanks, man.
<rick_h_> np, had to look it up myself
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-05
<_stink_> can't do it bytewise, i get it now.  gotta make the hex bit instead.
<_stink_> sweet.
<_stink_> i overloaded 'bit' there.
<_stink_> s/bit/part.
<rick_h_> gotcha
<rick_h_> bah, getting cranky. My talk is the last one not on the site now
<rick_h_> other than lightning talks I guess
<greg-g> rick_h_: it was that full of awesome that they couldn't contain it all on youtube
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah
<rick_h_> I had thought so, thanks for verifying
<brousch> no, rick_h_'s talk was so hot the tape melted
<snap-l> :q
<snap-l> Good morning, folks.
<rick_h_> morning
<Wolfger> party
<brousch> naptime
<rick_h_> +1
<snap-l> ++ ++
<Wolfger> I wish it was naptime
<rick_h_> http://www.notquitewrong.com/rosscottinc/2011/08/03/so-youre-mad-about-something-on-the-internet/
<Wolfger> dickfinity. Priceless
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> http://blip.tv/pyohio/sqlalchemy-tutorial-5442205 so so close!
<greg-g> haha
<snap-l> rick_h_: Sheesh, you're like an expectant father. ;)
<rick_h_> I want to keep ahead of the fall out
<greg-g> and it is now the first bookmark of the day: https://bmark.us/recent
<rick_h_> you have to understand, when I talk, I just kind of hit play and honestly can't remember much of the during
<rick_h_> so people tell me there were people on the floor and in the hall
<snap-l> You're assuming I remember anything I say an hour after saying it.
<brousch> what are we talking about?
<rick_h_> bah, picasa is taking too long
<rick_h_> https://picasaweb.google.com/deuce868/pyohio#5635716983660312738 is my last view I really remember
<snap-l> Nice, the other party's insurance is picking up our deductible.
<rick_h_> and then a blur and then done
<rick_h_> yay
<rick_h_> brousch: if you try to load my link above
<snap-l> Yeah, that's a bit of a relief.
<rick_h_> my video is on the site, but gives an error "the video was recenlty added and isn't ready" or something
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's what I got
<snap-l> Oh, that was for brousch's benefit
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea
<snap-l> GET WITH THE PROGRAM, brousch
<rick_h_> it's a friday, we're all out of it
<greg-g> snap-l: whew. Good dea. I remember when I was hit by a big Ram 2500 when I drove my little (but tough!) Ranger. Their insurance Did The Right Thing, too.
<greg-g> s/dea/deal
<snap-l> Yeah, honestly I was expecting to have to cough up the deductible.
<snap-l> since there was no police report, etc.
<rick_h_> sweet, snap-l's taking us all out to lunch!
<greg-g> man, that picasa/google+ tagging of people in photos is still unnerving for me (same with facebook)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Hardly.
<snap-l> Keeps us treading water, not floating calmly on it. ;)
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I'm with you on that
<snap-l> me too
<snap-l> "blah blah tagged you in a photo". "NO! Don't do that! My sacred privacy!"
<snap-l> Like brousch just did
<brousch> hehe
<brousch> i should tag people who aren't even in there
<snap-l> Tag the chandelier as "Wil Wheaton"
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> At least you can remove it.
<brousch> very nice
<brousch> and i can BLOCK you from taggin me in the future
<snap-l> Oh, how elegant.
<greg-g> I think, that if you tag anyone else in a photo, your setting of blocking others from tagging you should be removed. Quid pro Quo and all that, mutha effer
<greg-g> just like, if someone follows me on twitter, and their timeline is private, I shouldn't have to request to see their timeline, it should be pre-granted for me.
<Wolfger> I hate it when people tag a photo with names of people who aren't in the photo. Don't do that.
<greg-g> Wolfger: but, it'll be just like Facebook then!
<greg-g> and we all love facebook!
<Wolfger> greg-g: Yes, ++ (regarding twitter)
<Wolfger> if you tag a photo with my name and I'm not in it, I will report you for spam :-p
<Wolfger> because that's what you're doing
<brousch> you're no fun
<Wolfger> Yes I am. I have references. :-)
<rick_h_>  http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/05/stop-its-a-really-bad-time-to-buy-a-kindle/  oh oh oh oh
<brousch> snap-l: i sent a barcampgr announcement to ubuntu-mi, would you please pass it along to MUG?
<brousch> and if someone in the washtenaw linux group would pass it along to them, i'd appreciate it
<snap-l> Sure thing
<snap-l> brousch: Done.
<brousch> awesome, thanks
<jrwren> does anyone use landscape?
<rick_h_> nope
 * greg-g only has a laptop nowadays
<greg-g> no need for that kind of management :)
<brousch> i prefer portrait, but sometimes it just fits better in landscape
<rick_h_> har har har
<jrwren> if that was a terrible name dig... i agree :)
<Wolfger> landscape... name... dig... <groan>
<snap-l> Apparently it's a competition to see how many commands you can use in a sentence. ;)
<rick_h_> lol, perl lightning talk at pyohio
<rick_h_> snap-l: we missed the fun stuff
<Wolfger> ++ to today's xkcd alt text
<Wolfger> aw man, there was Perl at PyOhio? I knew I should have gone... ;-)
<rick_h_> going over porting moose stuff into python
<snap-l> What?
<rick_h_> the sun lighting talks are up
<snap-l> Perl at PyOhio? No, no...
<rick_h_> and one of them is how he's porting moose-isms from perl to python
<snap-l> I haven't looked enough at Moose, but the mental image isn't pretty
<snap-l> let's take Perl's riffing on everyone else's frameworks and port them back to Python
<snap-l> That may be very unfair, though. My impression of Moose after giving it less than 5 minutes glance wasn't favorable.
<snap-l> http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=miroguide+pyohio <- Check this out
<snap-l> mine has lococast at the top of that list.
<rick_h_> same here
<snap-l> ;)
<greg-g> btw, we're rocking out again today, if you're down with listening to us DJ for you: http://turntable.fm/ubuntuallstars
<snap-l> Facebook != listening
<greg-g> I know I know :(
<snap-l> (Sorry, but that's a big beef of mine with turntable.fm)
<greg-g> I know, I held out for so long
<snap-l> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-05/alcatel-s-76-drop-since-lucent-means-breakup-value-isn-t-french-real-m-a.html <- And this is why we can never have serious patent reform
<snap-l> "Alcatelâs patents alone may be worth twice as much as the $4.5 billion that Nortel Networksâ licenses sold for in a bankruptcy auction in June, according to MKM Partners LP, even as analysts expect Alcatelâs routers and optical fiber products to drive a 59 percent share gain. "
<greg-g> yeah, money talks
<snap-l> w/q greg-g Worse, Lucent actually owns and has litigated mp3 patents.
<snap-l> bah
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcatel-Lucent_v._Microsoft
<brousch> does i3 have any employees?
<rick_h_> I think it's all volunteer
<rick_h_> they're not 501c3 yet
<snap-l> I'm not even sure what an i3 employee would be. ;)
<brousch> pr man, tours, videographer
<brousch> paperwork
<brousch> accounting
<brousch> etc
<brousch> bouncer
<nullspace> looks like pastbin.com is down
<nullspace> #i3detroit
<rick_h_> huh?
<nullspace> paste bin went down for a little
<rick_h_> so what was the #i3 reference to it?
<greg-g> mistype
<greg-g> my guess
<nullspace> yep
<nullspace> forgot the /j
<nullspace> my guess is a bunch of people just learned to enumerate pastebin
<rick_h_> well there was a post up that pastebin.com had cross some large number of pastes this morning
<rick_h_> http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/05/pastebin-now-home-to-8-million-active-pastes/
<nullspace> makes me wonder how often they clear things out
<jrwren> rick_h_: when did you realize you were a linux guru?
<jrwren> or really... all:  at what point did you realize you were a linux guru?
<rick_h_> when I stopped caring about windows
<jrwren> really?
<rick_h_> just realized i didn't know how it worked/what it was up to anymore
<jrwren> i know lots of linux peeps who hate on windows but who aren't very linux-savy
<rick_h_> yea, but they hate, but can sit down and change the wallpaper
<rick_h_> if you put win7 in front of me, I have no idea where/how that works
<jrwren> ah... so I'd probably consider you a guru before that... but it was your lack of windows knowledge taht triggered your own guru realization
<rick_h_> was more work for me to do things on the aunt's windows machine than on my linux machine
<rick_h_> so maybe that's a better summary
<rick_h_> for various definitions of guru I guess
<_stink_> mine's something like that - i think it was when i (1) could no longer answer simple questions from family/friends about windows + (2) became a resource for people at work about linux.
<snap-l> Also, the definition of guru is overloaded IMHO
<snap-l> guru can mean anything from being able to teach people how to do simple tasks in Linux to being able to handle a DDoS in a server room without a noticable drop in traffic.
<_stink_> i might use the word 'guy' instead.
<_stink_> that's when i knew i was a 'linux guy'.
<brousch> but that was not his question
<jrwren> agreed.
<jrwren> guru definition is entirely subjective.. that is part of why I asked.
<_stink_> well
<_stink_> then my answer is that i am not a guru
<jrwren> _stink_: but you are to those people at work who use you as a resource.
<_stink_> that's true, yes.
<snap-l> I think everyone in this channel, to a T, can say they know someone who knows more about Linux than they do
<snap-l> How did I become the go-to person for Linux questions? because I was for the longest time the only person
<snap-l> It's not hard to be the pied piper when you're the only one playing the flute.
<snap-l> it only depends on if the rats are listening
 * snap-l wonders if he can abuse that metaphor any more than he already has
<ptenhoopen> snap-l:  That was well put.
<snap-l> Thank you.
<brousch> i realized i was a guru when ptenhoopen let me present at him linux user group
<brousch> his
<ptenhoopen> brousch:  Glad to have elevated your status. :)
<rick_h_> someone shut off my internet
<rick_h_> please hurry, NC dude is going off
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Just found out that my parents cat has a tumor and an abcess.
<_stink_> :/
<rick_h_> :(
<snap-l> hopefully it's benign, but my parents aren't terribly happy at this point.
<snap-l> Growing up sucks.
<Wolfger> :-(
<snap-l> thanks
<Wolfger> abcesses suck
<snap-l> Thanks.
<snap-l> also, don't go to wikipeida to look them up
<Wolfger> so noted
<Wolfger> only 69 days until 11.10 comes out
<brousch> 69!
<Wolfger> I feel like I should be alpha/beta testing or something
<brousch> make it so
 * Wolfger waits for brousch to execute The Picard Maneuver...
<Wolfger> ugh. Periscope down. Time to crank out a big report on moment's notice before EoB. Have a good weekend everybody
<Blazeix> wtf, they added another game to the humble bundle 3? How am I supposed to get meaningful work done?
<brousch> Blazeix: that's easy, don't buy games :P
<Blazeix> I budgeted time for 5 games, now I have 7, and my curve is all thrown off.
<Blazeix> I assume next week I'll have 8.
<Blazeix> actually, I never bought HB2, so I suppose I have all those games too.
<greg-g> oh man, what's the point of chromium having separate process for each tab if I can't kill one's pid without killing all of chromium?
<greg-g> yep, you do :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: there's a tool in chrome to do that
<rick_h_> when I hit the config button there's a "view background pages" that lists tabs and extensions with an "end process"
<greg-g> yeah, but what if I can't switch tabs/open up the wrench menu?
<rick_h_> boom!
<greg-g> yeah, big boom
<Wolfger> ok, I'm going to have to buy this when I get home
<Wolfger> not that I have time for more games in my life
<snap-l> How's the afternoon treating everyone so far?
<Blazeix> well, my 4 hour meeting turned into a 6 hour meeting.
<Blazeix> so that was fun.
<Blazeix> (company-wide, quarterly meeting)
<snap-l> Blazeix: Oh dear god
<snap-l> Did they at least give pee breaks?
<snap-l> Blazeix: Ugh, even better
<snap-l> "Let's hear it for Carol from Accounting, who made our processes 1.4% more efficient. Sadly, Carol cannot be with us because of the nervous breakdown she and her team had while aiming for that 1.4% efficiency boost".
<snap-l> "Let that be a lesson to you all. I want you all to have nervous breakdowns if it means we can do more with less".
<snap-l> "Also, I'd like to welcome Bob as the new head of accounting. I'm sure Bob will follow carefully in Carol's footsteps, and will be a great asset to the team. Plus he already knows the fine folks at Shady Pines Asylum from his previous position in finance."
<Blazeix> yeah, that was pretty much it. talking about benefits, recruiting, other stuff I don't care about
<snap-l> I really hate financial institution security.
<snap-l> Pick the following image. Enter a catch phrase. What is your favorite brand of golf-ball
<snap-l> I swear, it's like getting a rorschach test along with playing a party game
<brousch> sqlalchemy gurus http://paste.mitechie.com/show/375/
<brousch> my query does not seem to be filtering by is_bad
<brousch> i don't know why
<snap-l> What's in the column? (select distinct is_bad from table ...)
<Blazeix> that should be ==, not =, right?
<Blazeix> oh, wait, maybe both work
<_stink_> filter_by should use single =, it hink
<_stink_> filter() wants ==
<Blazeix> ah, you're right
<_stink_> can't tell why this wouldn't work, though.
<snap-l> I think the data is hinky
<brousch> i see 1s and 0s in the sqlite db
<brousch> for true and false
<snap-l> OK, so that's OK.
<brousch> it seems to be getting set correctly, but it's returning all results, ignoring the filters
<snap-l> did you try it without the limit?
<_stink_> dunno, can you AND two filter_bys?
<_stink_> i would guess you can
<snap-l> also, what's the sql display?
<_stink_> i know you can AND filter() like that.
<brousch> maybe they don't chain?
<brousch> i think they do
<_stink_> i think they do too.
<_stink_> but didn't test. :P
<snap-l> add "echo=True" to your create_engine, and paste the SQL
<snap-l> engine = create_engine('sqlite:///piddlepodderpy.db', echo=True)
<brousch> i don't have a create engine
<brousch> it's using flask-sqlalchemy
<snap-l> Um, so find where it binds the engine and see if you can add the echo? :)
<snap-l> Also, Unity can die in a fire with the way that windows that pop up steal focus
<snap-l> Banshee doesn't like it when I tell it -sqlalchemy
<snap-l> brousch: http://packages.python.org/Flask-SQLAlchemy/config.html
<snap-l> SQLALCHEMY_ECHO
<brousch> got it http://paste.mitechie.com/show/376/
<snap-l> When you run that query under sqlite3, what does it give you?
<Blazeix> hm, are you displaying the right variable on your UI? that query _seems_ correct
<snap-l> Blazeix: ++. I've not seen anything yet to suggest a problem.
<snap-l> unless sqlite3 is behaving like a piece of shit
<snap-l> (which it can do from time to time)
<Blazeix> sqlite. Querying not supported.
<brousch> looks like it doesn't work under sqlite3 either
<brousch> hm
<snap-l> Which version of sqlite3?
<snap-l> (this is part of my eternal frustration with sqlite3. When it works it's a dream. When it doesn't, it's no better than just throwing random shit into files)
<brousch> 3.6.22
<snap-l> You may have a buggy version
<brousch> it's the current version in ubuntu 10.04, so i hope not
<Blazeix> flask is a web framework, right? maybe you should just set up postgres or something.
<snap-l> That's the spirit. ;)
<Blazeix> I've only ever had issues with sqlite.
<Blazeix> I've never had it fail this hard before, though.
<snap-l> "I see you're having problems with your puny file-based SQL engine. Man up and install a real database."
<snap-l> I had problems with sqlite3 under 10.04 as well
<snap-l> commits didn't commit
<Blazeix> I'm exemplifying typical IRC helpfulness. "X isn't working."  "Why are you trying to X?"
<snap-l> Blazeix: Oh, totally. That's the way of IRC.
<snap-l> "I see you're trying to kill an ant. I find that flyswatter 2.0 is not effective. I prefer SCUD missiles, personally"
<snap-l> "borax as ant poison? Takes too long. I just microwave my house."
<snap-l> "I picked up 4 microwave dishes from the MIT flea market for dirt cheap. You might be able to find the same thing at Radio Shack"
<snap-l> "total cost of the project: $30 and a handjob"
<snap-l> (yes, I'm dissing Make and Lifehacker as well)
<brousch> hm, i don't think these are getting set as bad
<Blazeix> hm, didn't your initial 'distinct' query return some records with is_bad=True?
<Blazeix> if you're setting stuff as is_bad=True, then immediately requerying, you might need to flush the session.
<snap-l> Also check if a commit is sent
<snap-l> brousch: Another thought: how many processes are connecting to this file?
<brousch> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/377/
<brousch> does that look right for setting is_bad in each of them?
<snap-l> I'm not sure if sqlite3 can handle multiple connections
<snap-l> brousch: Check the SQL. It's the only way to be sure.
<snap-l> Also, you might want to spin up another DB, just to make sure that you're not chasing sqlite errors
<snap-l> I about drove myself batty with sqlite3 and Perl, only to realize that sqlite3 wasn't honoring the commits I was sending.
<Blazeix> oh my god. Someone extended the boolean type in this project with a method called IsTrue()
<snap-l> Beauty. :)
<_stink_> haha
<Blazeix> ah, it isn't as bad as i initially thought.
<Blazeix> it was added as part of a fluent api unit test framework, where you write test cases like foo.hasBaz().isTrue()
<Blazeix> it's a little bit awkward, but _maybe_ forgiveable for a fluent api
<Blazeix> but the references leaked from the test project into the main project, so it was popping up in the autocomplete of my editor.
<snap-l> I'm starting to really hate budget classical releases.
<snap-l> Never any meta-data for any of them in MusicBrainz
<snap-l> 15 tracks, each by a different composer / orchestra / conductor
<brousch> it's like the commit never runs
<brousch> hm, the change is made, but it's never committed
<snap-l> rick_h_: sheesh, what did NC dude do to warrant you flooding the place?
<snap-l> brousch: try mysql or postgresql
<rick_h_> brousch: never use filter by, just filter. I wish he'd remove that filterby
<brousch> what's the difference?
<brousch> i don't think that's my problem though
<brousch> the queries look correct, it's just not committing
<rick_h_> sorry, reading scrollback
<rick_h_> ok, so is .query valid for your model?
<rick_h_> did you copy the part from my demo code that added that?
<rick_h_> and are you getting results from your query?
<rick_h_> e.g. your loop is executing?
<rick_h_> and filterby brousch the space after the .\ I don't think is valid
<rick_h_> bah sorry
<rick_h_> you have spaces between the . and \
<rick_h_> I don't think you can have that or it breaks the chain
<brousch> i think i figured it out
<brousch> something about the record not being in the session
<brousch> so the commit doesn't see the change
<brousch> and commits nothing
<brousch> but if i add it, it ays that's already attached to a different session
<rick_h_> you shouldn't have two sessions going on
<rick_h_> the db.Model should be bound to db.session
<rick_h_> not sure how flask extension sets it up
<brousch> definitely something wonky there
<brousch> a second session is coming from somewhere
<brousch> i must have mucked it up when i moved my database models out of the same file as my views
<brousch> i just moved them back and now it works
<brousch> it works now, so i'm just going to leave the models in there
<brousch> i think it's from the facy hookup the flask-sqlalchemy extension uses. if i use regular sqlalchemy i think it would work
<rick_h_> well every web framework does some fancy hookup so that each request gets their own session
<rick_h_> so that user 1 can't change/overwrite/conflict with user 2
<brousch> but in http://paste.mitechie.com/show/377/
<brousch> the changes to bgi are in a different session from the db.session.commit()
<brousch> almost like it's pulling a new session out of thin air. is there a way to ensure something happens in a specific session?
<brousch> maybe like db.session.query(GridItem)...
<rick_h_> you create a session and then it goes bound to the db.Model
<rick_h_> that needs to be the same session you're using in db.session
<rick_h_> http://packages.python.org/Flask-SQLAlchemy/contexts.html ?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-06
<brousch> hah, using db.session.query(model) worked
<brousch> beautiful
<snap-l> I <3 MusicBrainz: http://musicbrainz.org/edit/14952253
<snap-l> getting your balls caught in your undies because Tan Dun is represented as è°­ç¾, and this is an American release
<snap-l> I'm sure all of my Ð¡ÐµÑÐ³ÐµÐ¹ ÐÐ°ÑÐ¸Ð»ÑÐµÐ²Ð¸Ñ Ð Ð°ÑÐ¼Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ð½Ð¾Ð² American recordings weren't credited that way, yet here we are.
<snap-l> Or even ÐÐ³Ð¾ÑÑ Ð¤ÑÐ´Ð¾ÑÐ¾Ð²Ð¸Ñ Ð¡ÑÑÐ°Ð²Ð¸Ð½ÑÐºÐ¸Ð¹
<snap-l> Amd most certainly nobody would have bought a disc with ÐÐ»Ð°Ð´Ð¸Ð¼Ð¸Ñ Ð¡Ð°Ð¼Ð¾Ð¹Ð»Ð¾Ð²Ð¸Ñ ÐÐ¾ÑÐ¾Ð²Ð¸Ñ on it
<snap-l> Apparently cyrillic gets a pass, but Chinese characters don't.
<greg-g> snap-l: bad link, I need to be logged in to make an edit :)
<snap-l> Bah
<snap-l> greg-g: One second.
<snap-l> This is for the album "Classic Yo-Yo"
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/18ix/
<snap-l> my point is that I copied it from the other release, and rather than jumping up and down, they have the power to fix it too.
<snap-l> Also, it's consistent with what's there. :)
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/18j2/ <- Rachmaninov
<snap-l> er, Rachmaninoff
<snap-l> Whatever.
<snap-l> It's already a pain in the cock to enter classical releases anyway. Jumping up and down on me trying to edit something that is essentially an older release isn't making me want to contribute. :)
<jrwren> which rachmaninov?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-07
<snap-l> Made the mistake of disconnecting my microphone, and had to reboot to get Natty to see it again.
<rick_h_> ouch
<jrwren> usb mic?
<jrwren> where is hald when you love him?
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> jrwren: I can't even parse that sentence.
<jrwren> :)
<snap-l> got some goodies from Borders again
<snap-l> Return to Forever's Romantic Warrior
<jrwren> you never answered me Q...
<jrwren> which Rachmaninov?
<snap-l> Sergei
<jrwren> yes, i meant which piece.
<jjesse> evening :)
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> Vocalise, with Bobby McFerrin
<jrwren> oh my.
<jrwren> party sounds nice.
<snap-l> Evening.
<_stink_> yo
<rick_h_> NC dude's qotd: "Fortune: Stone's Law: One man's "simple" is another man's "huh?"
<rick_h_> this comes after I tried explaining how to fix his broken code using events in JS
<rick_h_> so my reply: Rick's law, simple and huh are just points along the lines of education and experience. Both are lines we can move across. :)"
<brousch> one man's simple is another man's java
<brousch> hah, i love how the detroit area names their events "Michigan" when the rest of the state would love to disown that whole section
<snap-l> rick_h_: I need that on a T-Shirt.
<snap-l> Totally tweeted that.
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> brousch: That's OK, we totally disown the rest of the state too.
<snap-l> Especially those crazy folks over on the west side.
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, man that guy just hits every one of my pet peeves
<brousch> rick_h_: you're very tenacious. i gave up convincing people at my work to learn long ago
<rick_h_> the problem is he hops into the softdev channel and asks crap
<rick_h_> "I'm trying to do this, does anyone know how to do it better?"
<rick_h_> and of course, as the responsible co-worker trying to education I have to stick my foot in there
<rick_h_> and it leads to an hour of why my way is too complicated/won't work
<rick_h_> and then finally I get that quote left in the chat room after I leave
<rick_h_> so I come back and go grrrrrrr
<snap-l> It's because he really doesn't want to learn a new way
<snap-l> I think that's what's grinding you so badly.
<rick_h_> I think what grinds me is that he writes crap
<snap-l> Right, and he doesn't want to get better. ;)
<jjesse> spent the rainy morning here in CT at a Borders and was amazed at how trashed th store is, bathrooms not clean, books and crap on the floor, pretty disgusting
<gamerchick02> i'm such a silly geek. got my wireless AP all set up with WPA2 security and a nice difficult password
<jjesse> yay
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> i'm proud of myself. :)
<gamerchick02> i like taunting the neighbors with our closed AP
<_stink_> rick_h_: when you write your own decorators, do you use some special package for that?  google-fu suggests something might be better than the plain old function-that-takes-a-function in the regular syntax.
<rick_h_> _stink_: just got through writing one for bookie
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/blob/feature%2Fapi/bookie/lib/access.py#L183
<_stink_> rick_h_: cool, thanks.
<rick_h_> _stink_: it usually breaks down into "does the decorator need options?"
<rick_h_> if so, then you need the class wrapper
<rick_h_> if not, then you can use the plain version @something
<rick_h_> it does import the decorator function
<rick_h_> from decorator import decorator
<rick_h_> not sure if that's what you saw/not
<_stink_> rick_h_: yeah, i'm going to file this away - i'm chugging along using a pattern, but i'll soon learn if it's broken.
<rick_h_> ok, sure thing
<rick_h_> what are you using now?
<rick_h_> just a normal function decorating?
<_stink_> rick_h_: something like this: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/378/
<_stink_> in pyramid
<snap-l> Happy afternoon
<rick_h_> _stink_: right, cool
<rick_h_> yea, that way you can't setup args to the decorator
<rick_h_> so that's the only reason my example was the one with more bits
<rick_h_> doesn't authenticate do a db query?
<rick_h_> ah, nvm, this might be run by an admin or something as well
<snap-l> http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/captchas_to_keep_idiots_out_of_comment_threads/ <- snicker.
<snap-l> Man, Ubuntu One is too easy to confuse.
<rick_h_> heh
<snap-l> I copied over a file at the coffee shop, but didn't let it finish up what it was doing
<snap-l> so, naturally, when I get home, it won't copy over anything at all
<snap-l> So, just to get things working right, I copied it over to Dropbox
<snap-l> blergh
<rick_h_> brousch: snap-l _stink_ widox jrwren http://paste.mitechie.com/show/379/
<rick_h_> which talk do you think I should go for at 1devday detroit?
<brousch> is anyone else doing python?
<rick_h_> not sure, I was asked to bring some python to the conference
<rick_h_> "even a beginner python talk would be good" was the initial request
<brousch> i would suggest the python then
<brousch> if you can show the breadth of python, that's be great
<rick_h_> yea, just wasn't sure that the whole sweeping talk would be great or try to use python as an exmaple that would apply to any language
<brousch> better than bash, simple gui, easy web with flask O:-)
<brousch> just no gifs of women getting pooped on. those don't go over well
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> men are ok though
<snap-l> Yeah, nobody cares if men get crapped on
<brousch> i should put one together for our grdevday
<brousch> it's mostly .net people
<brousch> ok, i did it, i submitted
<rick_h_> cool
<brousch> Having an intro to Python talk to hone over time will be very useful
<brousch> now i need some fun projects to show it off
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-29
<rick_h> phew
 * rick_h is tired
<snap-l> Evening
<rick_h> zzzzz
<rick_h> http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/28/review-google-chromecast/ though still have to see if any of the laptop bits will work on linux chrome :/
<snap-l> Yeah, that will be interesting
<derekv> does my irc even work? can you read this?
<derekv> excuse: firewall issues
<_stink_> derekv: yep, you're showing
<derekv> cool thanks tis sunday slow response
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> Good morning!
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> morning
<jrwren> how was pyohio?
<rick_h> was pretty good
<rick_h> not giving a talk and such left lots of hallway time :)
<jrwren> that is always nice, and a huge reason I'm far less interested in giving talks these days.
<rick_h> I still ran an open space to have some fun which worked out ok
<rick_h> smaller/more intimate than a talk
<brousch> It was the best pyohio evar
<brousch> Well, it lacked a free Sat night drink-up
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> i am very glad i took today off
<rick_h> :P
<jrwren> i'm jealous. I wish I had.
<brousch> Bah, we got back around 10:45
<brousch> 6 hours of sleep is enough
<jrwren> i slept for 9 hrs. I'm still exhausted.
<brousch> Then you're sleeping wrong!
<jrwren> exhausted might be hte wrong word :)
<jrwren> still sore from weekend activities?
<brousch> Damnit. I spent 10 minutes searching for a document in my piles and drawers. I finally stood up and it was taped at face level on my cabinet
<brousch> I don't have standing desk yet with the new computer
<snap-l> brousch: Time to implement a filng system. :)
<brousch> I'm OK on most things, but this company picnic stuff
<brousch> I don't really have  spot for it
<snap-l> So put it in a folder marked Company Picnic and put it in an A-Z filing drawer. :)
<jrwren> snap-l: THAT IS TOO EASY!
<brousch> That would require me to go to the supply closet, find an empty folder, find labels for the folder, come back to my desk, find my file drawer key, unlock it, and add it
<brousch> Easier to tape it to my cabinet
<greg-g> obligatory: "damn, it's over $7million today!"
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, but starting to fall below the curve. Oh well
<greg-g> ah
<rick_h> it needs over 1M a day. There might be a dash at the end if it's close enough for people to think it has a chance, but going to be quiet the next few weeks.
<greg-g> yeah, risky
<rick_h> yes and no I'd say. What's the real risk?
<greg-g> well, just, not making it. nothing lost, just, always wanna succeed :)
<greg-g> for various values of "nothing"
<greg-g> (time/energy on Canonical's part, of course)
<jcastro> even if it fails, it'll show OEMs that there's a real demand
<rick_h> yea, been good pub no matter which way it goes
<rick_h> though I do want my toy, so go go go
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I put my X1 Carbon money towards it instead
<greg-g> heh
<rick_h> snap-l: http://www.python.org/community/jobs/index.html#space-telescope-science-institue-baltimore-md-usa for jodee, needs to get that python on
<rick_h> note to self, start charging $$ for bookie lol http://blog.theoldreader.com/post/56798895350/desperate-times-call-for-desperate-measures
<rick_h> feeling better about paying newsblur
<rick_h> ouch to the two week backup plan. You figure they can dump all the opml files out to S3 for dollars a month.
<rick_h> and :( that they're not OSS'ing the code
<jrwren> feedly is working well enough here.
<rick_h> how does feedly keep up/earn $$?
<jrwren> i have no idea.
<rick_h> snap-l: https://twitter.com/bkmontgomery/status/361919954729177088 is up it looks like
<widox> wow, a reader replacement already going under
<rick_h> yea, well more like going 'private'
<widox> eh, same difference for a lot of folks
<rick_h> one day I'll tell you all to go run your own bookie instances :P
 * widox waits for a bill for bmark.us
<rick_h> and at least you'll have that optino
<rick_h> :P
<rick_h> option that is
<rick_h> hah, widox total: $.25
<widox> :D
<rick_h> then I'd have to write payment integration software...that sounds like a lot of work :)
<widox> true. I'll just buy you a coffe then
<rick_h> sweet, you'll have a hard time finding a .25 coffee :P
<rick_h> man, this guy's been qa'ing my branch now for 2hrs. Just admit it works and let me land it!!!
<rick_h> need a irssi shortcut to auto enter "...not my bug" to everything he says
<brousch> I switched to Go Read for RSS and it has started subtly asking for donations
<rick_h> ok, this is cool http://nudehen.blogspot.com/2013/07/utilite-99-quad-core-arm-based-pc.html
<brousch> Meh. Rpi is cheaper
<rick_h> quad core? with ports? running ubuntu?
<brousch> Why do you want quad-core ARM?
<brousch> What are you doing with that you couldn't do with an RPi or a 5 year old laptop?
<rick_h> running full ubuntu
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-30
<brousch> old laptop
<brousch> I don't see a practical use for that thing
<jrwren> $45 beagle bone black runs full ubuntu
<jrwren> only $10 more than rpi typeb
<brousch> hehe http://www.frompythonimportpodcast.com/2013/07/30/not-quite-dead-yet
<snap-l> Yeah, Mike was mentioning he wanted to get the podcast back underway
<brousch> I bugged him about it Friday night when we were hanging out in the lounge
<rick_h> yea, he tried to get some bits going but doesn't have permission to the server he had hoped
<rick_h> jrwren: what's the 'irrational dislike' thing? It comes across as part joke part confusion
<snap-l> jrwren: I have a 12 step program for overcoming irrational dislike
<snap-l> 1: Watch Fox news
<snap-l> 2: Dremel out your prefrontal cortex
<snap-l> 3-12: ...
<snap-l> Congratulations! You have overcome your fear of irrational dislike.
 * snap-l is going to try the DEF CON Radio Music for Hacking channel on Soma.fm
<snap-l> Also: I like big banks and I cannot lie
<snap-l> Those fees I can't deny
<rick_h> ouch http://missingm.co/2013/07/identical-droplets-in-the-digitalocean-regenerate-your-ubuntu-ssh-host-keys-now/
<rick_h> as D/O came up at pyohio
<snap-l> Nice.
<snap-l> Sounds like something that the good guys are just finding out about and the bad guys knew all along
<brousch> Dangit
<brousch> We moved the Grand Rapids Localwiki to DO a month or two ago
<rick_h> update those keys!
<snap-l> brousch: Congratulations.
<snap-l> This is also awesome for shared hosting. :)
<snap-l> And passing around virtualbox / vagrant images
<snap-l> Wonder if it also affects LXC containers.
<rick_h> it was specific to the ubuntu images DO used
<snap-l> Right, but I'm curious how many images are out there that don't regen keys
<snap-l> ie: on init regen fingerprint / server keys
<jrwren> irrational dislike... becasue... wel... i have no idea.
<jrwren> its confusion I suppose.
<snap-l> seems a shortcut that some might not know they're taking
<jrwren> sometimes i feel like my dislike of certain things is not rational. then i remember that it probably is rational and when it isn't shared by others its becuase htey are irrational or have vastly different experience than me.
<snap-l> jrwren: I think part of it is folks don't know any better
<snap-l> ie: my dislike of Windows having come from Linux / Macintosh
<jrwren> it was actually quicken loans which inspired the two tweets. I just used other things which i also disliek
<snap-l> It's OK to dislike Quicken Loans
<snap-l> their advertising really turned me off back in the day.
<jrwren> I think I need reminding that bad company can still do good things.
<brousch> I have an immediate dislike of them because I have Quicken and Quickbooks
<snap-l> It's also like my dislike of Focus Hope and other "charitable orgs" in Detroit
<brousch> I hate, not have
<snap-l> There's money to be made in prolonging the problem
<jrwren> quicken loans has zero affiliation with quicken software
<brousch> But it has the same name
<brousch> It's an example of an irrational dislike
<jrwren> yes, there is a stupid aquisition spinoff story around that.
<jrwren> so this is a nice story: http://keithelder.net/2013/07/29/meet-quicken-loans-intern-waleed-johnson-future-mayor-of-detroit/
<jrwren> and it reminds me that i like their approach to building everything themselves. they don't buy off hte shelf solutions.
<jrwren> adn I think that is cool, but htey are so koolaide oriented, and their sales team is more aggressive than any used car salesmen I've met.
<snap-l> jrwren: Compuware is another one
<snap-l> They're building amazing things in Detroit
<snap-l> but their consulting arm and software leave a bit to be desired
<rick_h> jrwren: meh, I say run with it. What's it matter in the end? You're a creature of your history and if you don't use quicken loans how is your life significantly changed?
<jrwren> its not.
<jrwren> I think you are right. it is all good.
<jrwren> some occasional self doubt is healthy. I'll move on.
<rick_h> seems to me you're wasting more time/worry about having irriational feelings than it's worth
<jrwren> rick_h: right on. i'm moving on.
<snap-l> Heh
<rick_h> jrwren: all good, hate on, that's my motto :)
<jrwren> haters gonna hate.
<jrwren> don't hate the hater, hate the hatee
<jrwren> on that note... anyone seen http://www.datomic.com/ ?
<jrwren> i'm thinking it is snake oil :)
<rick_h> http://www.datomic.com/uploads/3/5/9/7/3597326/6646785_orig.jpg scares me
<rick_h> 'so where did my query go bad?'
<jrwren> a lot of things about it scare me.
<jrwren> a trusted person told me it is awesome.
<rick_h> everything is awesome for some use case I guess
<jrwren> i read a bit, and I htink it is interesting, and see so many points where I would not do it that way :)
<jrwren> great point.
<snap-l> Their overview reads like a requirements document that came from offshore
<snap-l> Wow this gets expensive quick.
<snap-l> Is Datomic just for JVM languages?
<snap-l> At the moment, yes. We have ideas for how to enable Datomic on non-JVM languages while preserving as much of the embedded power as possible. Stay tuned for future developments.
<rick_h> ugh, chromecast is coming on the slow boat from china. Shipping notice two days ago, today UPS says it'll show up on monday.
<rick_h> laptops from china ship faster than this
<snap-l> Patience grasshopper.
<snap-l> That's two days before you were previously promised.
<jrwren> yeah, I think datomic might be a great idea, but i wish it were open source ;)
<jrwren> i'm watching this presentation for it, it is not bad.
<jrwren> http://oredev.org/2012/sessions/exploring-datomic-a-database-deconstructed
<jrwren> some of the design decisions I really like.
<rick_h> :( http://blog.canonical.com/2013/07/30/ubuntu-forums-are-back-up-and-a-post-mortem/
<rick_h> and salted and hashed (using md5) passwords for 1.82 million users
<brousch> What took you so long?
<rick_h> ?
<rick_h> what took me what so long?
<greg-g> where "you" == "Canonical"
<brousch> Right
<rick_h> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/e-inkey-dynamic-keyboard
<rick_h> hah! so e-ink > oled
<rick_h> man, if it was 10less I'd be tempted for a travel keyboard
<brousch> That's kind of cool
<brousch> But you'd have to look at your keyboard to notice it
<brousch> rick_h: Do you look at your keyboarD?
<rick_h> brousch: no, but what's that got to do with anything :P
<brousch> What's the point of changing keys if you never see them?
<brousch> What Ting device should I get? https://ting.com/devices/buy
<jrwren> iphone
<snap-l> brousch: JoDee likes her Galaxy Nexus
<rick_h> the gnex is going long in the tooth though
<snap-l> Seems to be a nice balance between good phone and OMG I paid how much?
<rick_h> end of year I'm ditching mine. Will be tough to keep up on software for two more years
<greg-g> gah! stupid apple keyboard design :(
<brousch> greg-g: You misspelled stupendous again
<snap-l> Heh
<rick_h> either the HTC One or GS4 if you're going to hold onto it for a while
<rick_h> but new phones coming out here in the fall :/
<rick_h> which one will they let you get 4.3 on?
 * greg-g kicks brousch 
<brousch> I assume Galaxy Nexus will get 4.3
<rick_h> I'm not sure how it gets out. It's not asop so you have to get carrier updates
<rick_h> I won't get 4.3 on my galaxy nexus on verizon for months if at all
<rick_h> not sure how ting/galaxy fit together
<snap-l> I'm not sure if JoDee's Galaxy Nexus is on 4.2 yet
<snap-l> I haven't checked honestly
<rick_h> ugh, I did get 4.2 from verizon after about 6mo
<snap-l> But you're getting 4.1 at least
<brousch> Can I run CyanogenMod on my Ting device?
<snap-l> I don't see any reason why not
<snap-l> https://help.ting.com/home
<snap-l> Seems to be tolerated, if not approved
<snap-l> https://help.ting.com/entries/25040602-Unlocking-the-HTC-one-GSM
<rick_h> does the google phone come with ting radios?
<rick_h> per that link ^^?
<snap-l> I don't know
<snap-l> My assumption is because we haven't seen a Nexus 4 device it might not work.
<brousch> S4 looks really nice
<snap-l> https://help.ting.com/entries/23867307-Can-we-BYOD-a-Nexus-4-from-Google-Play-
<snap-l> short answer- not yet.
<rick_h> jcastro: how's your phone thing working out?
<rick_h> didn't you go to ting's sister...I mean alternate on t-mobile and BYOD?
<snap-l> brousch: Re: best phone: if I were looking to buy a new phone I'd get the Galaxy Nexus for now and then resell it to get the new hotness when Fall arrives
<snap-l> or buy one refurbed
<snap-l> https://ting.com/devices/used
<snap-l> I like my Galaxy SII Epic 4G Touch Championship Edition 2 Turbo Orta
<jcastro> rick_h: mine is simplemobile
<jcastro> rick_h: tldr; $90 a month total for jill and I
<rick_h> jcastro: ah right. I was thinking simple but confused with the bank
<rick_h> BYOD and happy camper?
<jcastro> for sure
<jcastro> $299 BYO Nexus
<jcastro> you don't even need the spreadsheet to figure it out
<jcastro> however I switched before tmo's new BYOD flat plans
<jcastro> and their new "$10 a month extra upgrade to any phone twice." thing
<jcastro> which looks like a good deal
<snap-l> Yeah, my only complaint about Ting is Sprint has a dead zone that is essentially my house
<snap-l> AT&T, TMobile also had problems there
 * rick_h wonders if any nexus devices support that t-mobile wifi calling stuff. 
<rick_h> get around some of that at home
<snap-l> If I face east while performing a downward dog scissor maneuver< i think I can get one extra bar of reception
<snap-l> I've seriously considered getting an Airave, but that's $250 to work around Sprint's problem
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> looks like there's apps to use with Google voice to be able to do wifi calling. might work on ting/sprint as well? https://support.t-mobile.com/thread/41526?start=0&tstart=0
<rick_h> if you use your google voice as primary phone #
<brousch> ahahahah, Ting can import my last 3 verizon bills into their calculator. Verizon has to love that
<brousch> I will only save $82/mo with Ting
<snap-l> rick_h: Hm, that's an option
<jrwren> saving $82/mo is a lot!
<snap-l> brousch: Only? :)
<brousch> </sarcasm>
<jcastro> that's 3.2 new nexuses you could buy a year
<brousch> Buying 2 gnex's it comes out to about $600/yr
<jcastro> or one awesome ubuntu edge pledge!
<snap-l> So four bills and you'll almost have paid for the Nexus
<brousch> Yeah. I don't see how I could not do this
<snap-l> Plus you could get a referral code for $25 off your first device
<jcastro> you don't even need to buy a new nexus a year
<jcastro> because they backport new android to the previous model too
<jcastro> so even if you go "every other nexus", which is what Jill and I do, you save the money
<snap-l> https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/
<snap-l> And if it doesn't work ouot, you can cancel at any time
<brousch> Well my wife needs a phone too, so the other Nexus would be hers
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> JoDee, her dad, and I are on the same plan
<snap-l> averages $50 a month
<snap-l> that said, I was also having lovely connectivity issues down in Ohio
<snap-l> 4G would start up, and then crap out
<snap-l> I believe this is because Ohio hates me
<snap-l> Even though I have shown it nothing but love
<snap-l> Well, most of the time
<brousch> I had fun in my hotel room, but mostly with wireless
<snap-l> I did besmirch their stupid Buckeye mascott
<brousch> I was at the nd of the hall, then turn left and at the end of the little hall
<brousch> I had no wifi by the window, but if I sat by the door I had 3 bars
<snap-l> Yeah, that hotel had strange wifi
<snap-l> Made browsing in the can a real pain
<snap-l> (TMI)
<brousch> Hm. No SD card on the gnex
<rick_h> no sdcard on nexus anything from what I recall
<snap-l> No SD card on any Nexus AFAIK
<brousch> barbaric!
<brousch> I'll probably go with the S4
<brousch> gnex for the wife
<snap-l> ++
<brousch> snap-l: What's your referal code?
<snap-l> https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/
 * snap-l should make a bitly short link for that. :)
<rick_h> it'll be just as long :P
<snap-l> Yeah, but then I could call it "TingCraig" or something
<snap-l> SomeTingForCraig
<brousch> I used yours instead of Linux Action Show's
<brousch> I ended up getting the SIII
<snap-l> I really appreciate it
<snap-l> Thanks!
<snap-l> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9058804/writers%20block.jpg
<brousch> You deserve it. You were the first person I heard it from
<snap-l> Hopefully you won't want to smack me nex titme we see each other. :)
<brousch> Well we have a year for the rage to build
<brousch> Crap. I forgot the Stardock game t-shirts
<snap-l> Ah, no worries
<snap-l> if you want to drop them into a priority mail box, I'll pay shipping
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-31
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> I'd like to know who gave my nose permission to run today
<brousch> You will be the first victim of PyOhio plague
<snap-l> God I hope not
<snap-l> We have successfully collected $31.93 for billing period Jun 27 - Jul 26, 2013
<rick_h> huh?
<snap-l> Ting bill
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> brousch: Apparehtly GR and Holland are also now LTE markets whenever Sprint flips the switch
<snap-l> Thatn and Flint
<snap-l> Apparently Sprint is flipping me off. :)
<jrwren> maybe you don't actually have an LTE device :)
<snap-l> jrwren: No, there's only 3G in this area
<snap-l> Which gives me a sad
<jrwren> i don't even have real LTE, just ATT what iphone 4s (not5) calls 4g. its that HDSPA or whatever
<snap-l> Yeah
<jrwren> i'm always surprised when my wife says she only has 3g and its slow (iphone 4) and I speed along with my iphone 4s, just cuz of that hsdpa
<snap-l> LTE and 4G are probably the most misunderstood terms in cellphones
<jrwren> yup
<snap-l> That and what a "bar" means
<snap-l> "Bar o' reception"
<jrwren> lol. bar is just shit.
<jrwren> although it seems people dont talk about that anymore. you either have service or you don't IME these days
<jrwren> but 6-8yrs ago, people comparing bars was hilarious, and a little sad.
<jrwren> comparing on different phone models, I mean.
<snap-l> Even same models was pretty pathetic
<jrwren> same model on same network seems a valid comparison to me.
<snap-l> Unless you're standing in the exact same spot at the exact same time with the exact same hand and angle, it's not going to be effective
<jrwren> no.
<jrwren> the whole point of a cell is that those things average out.
<jrwren> bar comparisons were a means of asking the question "do you have a signal in here?" as in, this room.
<brousch> I rarely need high speed when I'm outside of a wifi connection, so 3G should suit me
<snap-l> Only time I've really noticed was when I was tethering my phone to my computer and using SSH
<snap-l> the lag was pretty high
<snap-l> also trying to use rdesktop to work with their flash banner was fun
<jrwren> brousch: it is not just the speed, it is the latency. 4g is much nicer.
<brousch> If it enrages me I will drive to Royal Oak and commense the beat-down
<snap-l> rick_h knows which one I'm referring to. It's this animation that swirls in with our (now out of date) mission statement one out of three times
<brousch> I'm more worried about my wife, who apparently stream PAndora over 4G all day long
<snap-l> brousch: Ouch
<brousch> Might have to change her habits
<rick_h> ok, so I have to say "I only need 3g" is crazy
<rick_h> as someone that lives on both 3g and 4g, it's not even close
<rick_h> I'd say to be generally 'productive' I need about 1.5-3mb of connectivity and sub 100ms ping times
<rick_h> yes, 4g is over that, but 3g isn't close
<rick_h> snap-l: I'm going to fall into convulsions on the floor with this email you sent me. I can't get past the first 6 lines without screaming out loud
<rick_h> snap-l: I'm sending my dr bill to you
 * rick_h packs up a dozen CS101 books to send to N.C.
<snap-l> rick_h: Heh. :)
<rick_h> ok, skimmed through it. You're a better man than I.
<snap-l> No worries. i just thought you might want to know what you're missing. :)
<snap-l> We're redefining Comp Sci here
<rick_h> yea, I can tell
<rick_h> or even common sense
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h> man, this is going to haunt me all day
<snap-l> You're welcome. :)
<jrwren> did you use the scientific method?
<jrwren> what was your theory? how did you test it via experiment?
<snap-l> I think we should have used the Rhythm Method
<jrwren> didn't do those things? its not science :p
<rick_h> or the 'shush you, you're talking madness and stop it' method
<snap-l> jrwren: Trust me. This is definitely redefining comp sci. Poorly.
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> i'm not even sure what you are talking about.
<snap-l> Global Variables
<jrwren> you forwarded something to rick_h, but what?
<jrwren> nothing wrong with globals
<rick_h> ooooohhhh http://r.bmark.us/u/e37af9484e1d6f
<rick_h> jrwren: the looong conversation can be stated simply
<snap-l> And how they're not that dissimilar from broadly-scoped local varaibles (as in "good thing"
<jrwren> oh god.
<jrwren> someone doesn't know how ot program :p
<rick_h> "There's nothing wrong with global variables depsite all the fuss. If I define a variabiel in my function it's global to my function and that's good design"
<jrwren> i have infinite memory, don't you?
<rick_h> the problem is we should have all stopped talking to this guy from day 3 of meeting him
<jrwren> oh, its a CHC attendee? wow.
<rick_h> no no no
<rick_h> co-worker for snap-l
<rick_h> who's been affecntionaly named "north carolina dude"
<rick_h> errr, with better spelling
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> Dude is such a nice name
<jrwren> the dude
<rick_h> N.C. dude for short
<rick_h> because in N.C. Dude land, a variable defined in your function is global and just the same as in the top of a module and just the same as in the __ini__ of your project
<rick_h> and in his world, permutation problems are not scalable by any known technique known to CS
<brousch> That sure makes things easier!
<jrwren> take him to school, snap-l
<snap-l> I did
<rick_h> and the best way to create a program that's dynamic isn't to process a known file import format and generate a graph of object instances, but to read in a file and probe in the python AST to auto create things per the yaml file's specifications.
<rick_h> because nothing's better than python generated via a yaml of python-looking like stuff
<jrwren> wtf rick_h ! blasphame!
<brousch> That sounds like fun
<brousch> My Dad called last night about buying a Windows 8 laptop he saw on sale. I suggested a Chromebook for him instead. It really is a perfect fit for what he does (Email, Facebook, consume YouTube videos), and costs the same as the on sale laptop.
<brousch> The revolution has begun
<snap-l> The revolution will be televised... via Chromecast.
<brousch> Yeah, Chromecast is even an extra bonus
<brousch> He's been running Linux since 2008, but that computer is just too old now
<brousch> The computer dates from 2002
<snap-l> wow
<brousch> When he called, I told him to go ahead with the Win8 laptop and I'd fix put Linux on it for him. Then at the store later I saw a Chromebook and it hit me. It didn't hit me at home even though my son was using a Chromebook 10ft away from me at the time of the call.
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I think I have a new nickname for me on allergy medicine: Bitchy Beaker
<snap-l> Seriously have the attention span of a pissed off gnat
<snap-l> and what little attention span I have is busy wanting to blow up the world.
<snap-l> so there is your mental image for the day
<snap-l> you're welcome.
<brousch> oooh, MS office for Android
<snap-l> http://gregghenson.com/105-1-hiring-talent/
<snap-l> IN case you were wanting another sports station in Detroit
<snap-l> Apparently playing secretary rock isn't the big business it used to be
<greg-g> really annoying when your org's logo is on an NSA slide: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/audio/video/2013/7/31/1375269604628/KS8-001.jpg
<snap-l> Heh, it ranks higher than Hotmail / Outlook who isn't on that slide. :)
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/anoddhue/statuses/252080684859015168
<snap-l> Saw this sticker last night and about laughed myself off the road
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, we're no really ramping up our efforts to do ssl by default/everywhere
<rick_h> greg-g: I completely didn't get it...then I realized you didn't say a NASA slide, but a NSA slide
<greg-g> rick_h: hahaha
<greg-g> oh, and s/no/now/, of course
<greg-g> also, ipsec between datacenters
<greg-g> all the good stuff
<snap-l> greg-g: Why do you hate freedom? :)
<greg-g> freedom ain't free, or something
<greg-g> snap-l: I say that because, we're going to be spending money to get this done, obviously, more servers to handle the ssl traffic, upgraded routers that can handle ipsec effenciently between dcs, that kind of stuff
<snap-l> Yeah, I know
<greg-g> hence the obviously ;)
<greg-g> anywho, encrypt the web!
<PainBank> anyone here use Qt significantly?  Qt Creator and QML.
<brousch> I use KDE. Does that count?
<brousch> 302 is the official PyOhio attendance
<rick_h> jrwren: jcastro smoser 3hr CHC if any of you guys are bored and looking for a drive to take tonight.
<smoser> thanks for invite.
<jcastro> me too
<jcastro> but I'm working for a while today
<jrwren> thanks for invite.
<PainBank> brousch: sorry, doesn't count.  need software developers
<brousch> Ah well. Qt is deprecated anyways. Now it is all Kivy!
<greg-g> boy howdy does listening to QOTSA's "Feel good hit of the summer" make me want to smoke a few things. Or just one. Or none. But boy does it pull on my addiction strings.
<greg-g> (that's mostly for jrwren )
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-01
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roujin_Z
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/html5/comments/1jgjam/anyone_who_knows_how_to_create_a_social/
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> ug
<brousch> I have 2 lingering problems with the Win7 migration: Lotus 123r5 (for Windows!) and Firefox over redirected folders
<brousch> FF is going in the trash
<snap-l> brousch: 123r5? Isn't that a DOS version?
<brousch> No. It says on the floppies "For Windows!"
<snap-l> Oh fun
<brousch> It's next on the list for re-writing
<snap-l> Did you try the files under Libreoffice?
<snap-l> It allegedly has support
<snap-l> (according to the file menu)
<brousch> It does not
<brousch> The only thing that can read these spreadsheets in Excel97
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> Could try Wine, and convert them
<brousch> Conversion won't help since they are basically programs written in Lotus macros
<snap-l> Oh that's lovely
<snap-l> And nobody though in the 10+ years since to rewrite this?
<snap-l> s/though/thought?
<brousch> I'm doing it now!
<snap-l> Congratulations. :)
<snap-l> Way to be forward-thinking. ;)
<brousch> But really it's hard to knock a system that's worked for pretty much 20 years
<snap-l> Oh, no doubt. I'm sure it's gold watch will look lovely
<snap-l> If you can find the original boxes you could put that gold watch in there as a memento of it's achievements. ;)
<brousch> What annoys me most is when I tested it on Win7 4 years ago it worked fine. Now Lotus is on some blacklist that won't even try to run
<snap-l> brousch: Probably because it didn't actually run well. :)
<brousch> It ran fine
<snap-l> It's part of Microsoft's grand conspiracy to kill Lotus once and for all.
<snap-l> http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/differences-between-microsoft-excel-and-lotus-1-2-3-HP005199774.aspx
<snap-l> *snort*
<snap-l> http://www.zdnet.com/goodbye-lotus-1-2-3-7000015385/
<brousch> Lotus is officially dead. IBM killed it a month or two ago
<jrwren> zomg, PEP8 is ALIVE!!!
<snap-l> jrwren: I didn't know that it was suspected of being dead
<rick_h> jrwren: ?
<brousch> rick_h is going to have a stroke http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#maximum-line-length
<jrwren> http://bugs.python.org/issue18472
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, lots of pylint stuff, would be cool
<rick_h> brousch: why? "Aim to limit all lines to a maximum of 79 characters" ?
<brousch> But 99 is OK!
<rick_h> meh, but that use case never comes into play since you can always write readable code in 79chars
<snap-l> Wonder if it'll show as a warning now with the linter. :)
<jrwren> i won't be changing my 79 limit :p
<snap-l> Same here.
<brousch> It'll show as "Why are you breaking at 79 when your whole line would fit in 99"?
<snap-l> For flowing long blocks of text with fewer structural restrictions (docstrings or comments), limiting the line length to 72 characters is recommended.
<brousch> This sounds interesting: https://github.com/adicu/pantograph
<jrwren> http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena/activity/h/humor/Computers/unix.grades
<rick_h> https://gist.github.com/mitechie/6132350 vs https://raw.github.com/kivy/kivy/master/examples/widgets/lists/list_cascade_dict.py for easy to read...go :)
<brousch> #1
<brousch> A lot of extra \ breaks in #2
<rick_h> brousch: ty, hopefully @jacebrowning will start to think a bit
<jrwren> HATE \ breaks
<jrwren> find a different way.
<rick_h> it's his example of "longer line length required for the code here"
<jrwren> use ( or break inside a ( or list or dict
<rick_h> so I refactored the damn file
<jrwren> HATE \ !
<brousch> heh
<jrwren> exactly. it is a sign you have triangular code. extract to more functions
<jrwren> makes it easier to read.
<greg-g> so, pep8, discuss
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g reads scrollback
 * rick_h ducks and tries to hide. 
<rick_h> people can write whatever bad code they want. I reserve the right to say fudge off if I have to deal with it.
<rick_h> and to submit a pull request that makes it usable if I want to deal with it.
<greg-g> rick_h++
<snap-l> heh, "fudge off"
<snap-l> "fudge off you hot dog"
<rick_h> hey, I've got a 3yr old. It's the time of inventive language ;)
<greg-g> rick_h: totally
<snap-l> Bah, teach 'em young
<rick_h> and to break out classics like "...because I said so!!!"
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2013/08/01/3738/Long-awaited-Vapor-Trails-remix-coming-October-1st-now-available-for-pre-order
<jcastro> alright!!
<rick_h> moto x news coming out. doesn't look like a nexus phone :(
<snap-l> rick_h: I'm not surprised, but I'm a little saddened
<snap-l> Wonder if there's contracts for the Nexus-branded stuff
 * rick_h wonders how close to asop it'll be
<rick_h> I want to pay full price for a phone that'll get google updates on the day of for the life of that device. Was hoping moto x would be it.
<rick_h> wtf, did t-mobile get rid of the lower price if you brought your own phone?
<rick_h> in looking at their website the price is the same if I bring my own phone or get a GS4 from them
<snap-l> nfc
<rick_h> ah, nvm. That's the 'down payment' that's 0
<rick_h> so they charge you for the phone, but they'll add it to your monthly payments so nvm
<snap-l> OK, the person on Windows Weekly sounded like she was what happens when I have the wrong bitrate
<snap-l> Had to wait for Leo to jump in to verify
<jcastro> rick_h: you're not waiting for the normal Moto X
<jcastro> you're waiting for the Google Play Moto X
<jcastro> which they haven't announced yet
<jcastro> announced but haven't revealed I mean
<snap-l> Ah, I see they kept Motorola's Marketing department
<jcastro> so the one thing I like about this
<jcastro> is that they decided that going big was dumb
<jcastro> and kept it at 4.7 inches
<jcastro> meanwhile samsungs are starting to look like car windshields in your hand
<snap-l> jcastro: Who do I bitch to about the rash of spam making its way through the Ubuntu list owners aliases?
<snap-l> because something changed and now I'm getting a ton of crap
<jcastro> rt@ubuntu.com
<snap-l> danke
<snap-l> sent
<rick_h> yea, I'd like to be about 4.5 I think
<rick_h> I'm hoping this is 4.7, but since there's less border it won't be much bigger than my gnex
<brousch1> I'm not a huge fan of the big phones. I loved the size of my Droid 1
<brousch1> But now they pack 1080p into a phone
<jcastro> rick_h: the Edge is 4.5. And after holding the physical prototype I am basically sold
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, cool
<jcastro> I wish I could get the guts of my Nexus 4 in the form factor of the Nexus One
<jcastro> that was an awesome size
<brousch1> iphones are still small
<jcastro> I don't think iphones are small, I think other phones just got huge
<rick_h> yea, my wife misses her incredible size (iphone size)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-02
<rick_h> man, almost sent in until I re-read and caught that it was work from home but only for eastern-EU countries. :( http://www.python.org/community/jobs/index.html#rackspace-international-zurich-switzerland
<rick_h> guess glad to not have embarrassed myself but sucky. remote good, few hours time diff bad
<snap-l> bah
<snap-l> that sucks, rick_h
<snap-l> http://lichkingmetal.bandcamp.com/album/born-of-the-bomb-2
<snap-l> jcastro: ^^
<snap-l> http://nightdemon.bandcamp.com/album/night-demon-e-p
<snap-l> jcastro: Have you heard of Sacred Reich?
<greg-g> jrwren !!!
<snap-l> http://english.svartby.com/press/disclaimer
<snap-l> Wish this was fully CC because the music is awesome
<greg-g> from russia but sing in english and swedish?
<snap-l> Yeah, I have NFC
<snap-l> I was just going through someone'ps bandcamp purchases and found a fuckton of awesome
<snap-l> http://bandcamp.com/morts2986
<snap-l> http://warpig.bandcamp.com/album/warpig
<jrwren> greg-g: !!!
<jrwren> :)
<brousch> Anyone else Chromecasting?
<rick_h> not yet, still in the mail :(
<rick_h> UPS -> USPS delivery fail
<rick_h> but hopefully today
<brousch> Hm, mine came yesterday
<rick_h> :P
<brousch> The boy loves it. Now his videos can go up to the big screen
<rick_h> yea, I bet
<rick_h> I'm excited, I think it means google play will be my place to get movies now.
<brousch> I so rarely buy movies, what with Netflix
<rick_h> disney
<rick_h> and travelling needs offline
<brousch> You can queue up videos too
<brousch> I was getting dressed and inserted and Iron Man trailer into his queue
<rick_h> yea, that's cool for when I go on a youtube run
<brousch> He watched some of his favorite videos and said, "It's like being in a movie theater!"
<rick_h> hah, awesome
<brousch> I'm unsure of how they pull off one part of the setup
<brousch> You plug it in, then go to a Google website to set it up. Somehow it is available on the wifi even before you put in the password
<rick_h> brousch: I heard it created a wifi network you have to join?
<brousch> I didn't notice that happening
<rick_h> hmm, I heard it creates a wifi network you connect to. Then you set it up that way.
<brousch> Maybe the Chromecast app does it transparently
<brousch> I set it up over Android
<rick_h> yea, wonder if it switched networks on you
<brousch> Switches to that private network, sets it up with the real network, then switches back
<rick_h> brousch: yea, look at the permissions on the chromecast app
<brousch> Probably wouldn't notice unless some background app was running that needed the real network
<rick_h> "view network connections; view wifi connections; change network connectvitiy; connect and disconnect from wifi"
<brousch> It was very well done
<brousch> Heh. I "purchased" the free amazon app of the day and they gave me a $1 credit towards MP3s
<brousch> I'm printing money baby!
<jrwren> from what I could see of chromecast tehre was nothing it could do that airplay could not, except the browser tab thing. Now i want to try it!
<rick_h> jrwren: play things from the google movie store, work on android, and work with your device turned off
<brousch> Submit movies to the queue from multiple devices at the same time
<brousch> May be some party uses there
<snap-l> Not be an Apple Product
<brousch> I'm impressed with it's ease of use so far
<brousch> snap-l: It came is a well-designed white box, like an Apple product
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, Apple has really redefined what awesome packaging is
<snap-l> (I mean that sincerely. I'm glad not everything comes in blister and cutting packs)
<brousch> Well the box was wrapped in grungy bubble wrap
<rick_h> lol, Guido has spoken! http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#maximum-line-length
<rick_h> 79 is the true python! fakers can do wtf they want.
<jrwren> rick_h: device turned off? really? you turn your phone OFF. I push the sleep button on my phone or ipad and airplay keeps playing, but i never turn them OFF
<jrwren> zomg, YAY 79. And then there is paragraph 5.
<snap-l> http://hg.python.org/peps/rev/82e24ac40255
<rick_h> jrwren: right, but with airplay your device is doing the streaming correct? So it can't go into 'sleep' mode is how i understand it
<rick_h> jrwren: on the chromecast, the chromecast does the streaming. You can walk away, turn your device off, or just let it go into a real battery saving sleep
<jrwren> no, with airplay my device sends the url to the airplay device.
<jrwren> the airplay device then reads the url and streams, just like chromecast
<rick_h> ah, nvm then.
 * rick_h thought that since you can airplay a desktop it would have to send a signal
<rick_h> maybe it's selective in streaming a signal vs streaming direct
<jrwren> its selective, just like chromecast in browser tab mode.
<jrwren> you can't turn off your PC that is displaying its browser tab to chromecast :)
<brousch> It could stream the desktop by turning on a server on the desktop then submitting the url to the server
<rick_h> my understanding is that the chomecast never streams from your device
<rick_h> it's always a url
<jrwren> brousch: that is exactly how airplay works.
<brousch> But the URL could be mydevice.local
<rick_h> so you can't chromecast your desktop, only something from chrome which has a url
<rick_h> brousch: right, you have to web-ify the content so that chrome can play it back
<rick_h> the chrome instance on the chromecast
<brousch> If your device turns on a server that streams, it can submit a url pointing to itself
<rick_h> brousch: ok fine
<brousch> So we need a vnc->streaming converter
<rick_h> but it's not sending a direct video signal to the device. The device pulls vs you push. I thought in airplay your device could push video itself to the appletv
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> airplay works exactly how you and brousch discussed
<jrwren> in the case of youtube app on iphone, it just sends URL to airplay
<jrwren> in the case of videos which are on your ios device, it starts a webserver and sends http://ipaddress/pathtofile and airplay gets the url
<jrwren> and rick_h you are forgetting the tab playback feature
<jrwren> https://soundcloud.com/keep-on-dreaming/heartbreak-girl-5sos-acapella
<jrwren> oops, wrong url.
<jrwren> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/162443-chromecast-tab-casting-how-to-stream-your-desktop-browser-and-local-media-to-your-tv-video
<rick_h> jrwren: but tab playback is just the chromecast loading that tab
<rick_h> so not forgetting it
<jrwren> that is not what it sounded like based on tech reading I did.
<jrwren> it sounds more like the google cast extension is video encoding the page render
<rick_h> jrwren: according to the api docs the best you can do is build into your web page chromecast api specific changes to your url
<rick_h> jrwren: so that when the chromecast loads the url, it detects the api calls, and adjusts what it displays
<rick_h> jrwren: that's how it can fullscreen a youtube video when you give it a youtube url
<jrwren> that is cool.
<rick_h> there's chromecast specific JS on the page directing it to only render the video in the chrome window on the chromecast
<jrwren> interesting. i'd be a bit disappointed if that is how it worked.
<rick_h> so how is airplay mirroring of your iphone working with a 'pass a url' only world?
<jrwren> it starts a web server and x264 encodes everything on the ios device and sends that url to the apple tv
<jrwren> although that is airplay video-- higher number
<rick_h> ok, so it's two parts then. the encoder on the device and then the airplay display
<jrwren> e.g. XBMC's airplay support doesn't allow that.
<jrwren> hell, apple tv 2 doesn't either, unless you have upgraded the OS
<rick_h> cool
<jrwren> can anyone with a chromecast tcpdump everything comeing out of it for a couple minutes while its not playing video and send me the results?
<rick_h> ok, so they're close to the same thing then. only we non-apple users get some <3 for 1/3 the price of an appletbv
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> i don't have appletv. I just use XBMC, which is an airplay audio and video endpoint
<rick_h> and works with google play content which I have
<jrwren> and I wrote a couple of those, since the airplay protocol is so trivial
<jrwren> its like DUH trivial :)
<rick_h> jrwren: https://developers.google.com/cast/chrome_sender
<jrwren> i want the other side.
<jrwren> i want to write software which acts like a chromecast device.
<jrwren> i want to see my device in the menu of googlecast chrome ext
<brousch> Hm, thought I saw that
<rick_h> https://developers.google.com/cast/developing_your_receiver
<rick_h> same docs area
<jrwren> yeah, looking at that, not applicable :(
<jrwren> that is for writing a webpage which is aware that it is being rendered on google cast :(
<rick_h> https://developers.google.com/cast/whitelisting#whitelist-receiver
<jrwren> how about that tcpdump?
<brousch> https://gist.github.com/AaronOgle/6099301/raw/456d5c2eedcc4d17f4c0b68c3da7d60b3a1a0e35/app.py
<brousch> Ah, here it is https://github.com/dz0ny/leapcast
<rick_h> hah, that's cool
<rick_h> make your computer a chromecast without installing one
<jrwren> that is what i was going for.  YAY, it is already done
<rick_h> woot! I see mutt bookmarks on bookie :P
<rick_h> snap-l: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/988/ is useful with tip #3
<brousch> Hm, with ipython notebook you could do presentations over chromecast
<jrwren> at work our primary means of doing presentations is airplay.
<jrwren> nearly everyone has a mac, you just say airplay and you are projecting.
<rick_h> yea, I want that with the chromecast. Would be cool for $35 a project to be able to let everyone go wirelessly
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> i'm hoping XBMC eventually supports the desktop mirroring like ATV does.
<jrwren> becuase XBMC works great on rasbpi, so its $35 airplay too :)
<rick_h> this is the debate that never ends...it just goes on and on my friends... *sigh*
<snap-l> rick_h: What the hell does that do? :)
<rick_h> huh?
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/988/
<rick_h> snap-l: oh, that builds your list of mailboxes to check for new mail automatically
<snap-l> Ah
<snap-l> I only have one inbox
<rick_h> snap-l: so in tip #3 it says "list your mailboxes you want to watch for new mail"
<rick_h> sorry, folders in the mailbox
<snap-l> The imap server handles that for me
<rick_h> it generates the list of folders and when a new mail (say auto filtered) lands in one it shows it in the mutt status bar
<rick_h> and then a simple c<enter> will go to the next folder with unread mail
<snap-l> Ah, that doesn't map to my usage. :)
<snap-l> But neat trick nonetheless
<rick_h> k
<snap-l> rick_h: If you feel up to it though I'd love a peek at your muttrc
<snap-l> I think I'm going to sanitize and post mine on githb
<snap-l> Or at leat post it up on my site somewhere.
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, there's some things I have to clean I think.
<rick_h> hmm, maybe not
<rick_h> yay, chromecast is here
<rick_h> bah, that sucks. should have realized. You have to be on the same network
<rick_h> I keep my video gear on my 802.11N network and everyeone else on the G
<rick_h> and only the N network gets the 5ghz band
<rick_h> so that my roku's and such get the bandwidth all to themselves
<rick_h> woot, streaming mark's oscon talk to the tv from the tablet
<rick_h> so the 'cast this tab' works pretty well actually
<rick_h> casting my flickr photostream up to the tv
<rick_h> it's kind of strange though. The casting gets mixed up about playing to my BT speaker or to the tv
<rick_h> but cool music playing. Would be cool if the squeezebox was a casting-endpoint
<jcastro> rick_h: so what exactly does the chromecast do?
<jrwren> in itself it does nothing. it sits there listening for a device to tell it what to stream. then it streams it.
<jcastro> yeah I'm just trying to figure out what it gives me over something like plex
<jrwren> its a $35 endpoint device
<rick_h> jcastro: so it's giving me youtube from my tablet to my tv, google play content (music, movies) on my tv (roku can't do it) and a way to wireless present my computer screen (chrome tabs) to the tv
<jcastro> yeah but it's only $10 cheaper than a roku
<rick_h> jcastro: and as more apps add support it might do more
<jcastro> ok the chrometabs thing sounds awesome
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, but I've got a roku, I can't do youtube or google play or google music on a toku
<jcastro> yeah but that's not a technical limitation. :-/
<jcastro> that's just google being lame
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, but it's what it 'gets me'
<rick_h> as someone who's been buying movies for the boy on AMZ because it's on the roku
<jcastro> But Google Music never worked well for me, so the spotify app on the roku was a big sell for me
<rick_h> of course AMZ video isn't on android :(
<rick_h> I've gone all google music for my needs
<rick_h> just don't use it on the tv
<rick_h> jcastro: and the ability to build a youtube 'queue' is cool.
<rick_h> play a youtube video, start searching for another while the first one plays
<jcastro> yeah but I'm already doing that with plex
<rick_h> but that's a little thing
<jcastro> though it's not as nice as it could be
<rick_h> my boy is going to enjoy watching ice age on the tv at home for a change
<rick_h> jcastro: and yea, it's got an API so more apps should start adding support
<jcastro> nod, so plex could push to it
<rick_h> if pocket casts added support could play video/music podcasts on the tv
<jcastro> does it have like it's own UI, like is it a full blown client or is it just a dumb stick?
<rick_h> dumb stick
<jcastro> like, for browsing shows, etc
<jcastro> ok so that's all done on the tablet
<rick_h> basically you use your phone, tablet, laptop and say "send this to the tv"
<rick_h> and for $35 I can have one on each tv for less than one of my roku boxes
 * rick_h goes to buy a second one
<rick_h> jrwren: man, I'm kind of disappointed at that RT
<jrwren> which?
<jrwren> "can he lead a normal life?" "no, he'll be an engineer."  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw
<jrwren> i just RTed like 5 things :)
<rick_h> jrwren: the women president thing, sorry
<jrwren> oh, yes not very poignant. It made me chuckle.
<jrwren> sorry, i'll try to RT better.
<rick_h> ah, kind of seems more than a lot shallow as I read it
<rick_h> brousch: heh, leapcast made pycoders weekly
<brousch> rick_h: I think I saw it in there last week. I'm pretty sure this week's is a copy of last week's
<brousch> I looked at it because I thought it was something to do with leap motion
<rick_h> ah, nvm
<jrwren> dear juju people. the link https://github.com/juju/juju-core/archive/1.11.2.tar.gz from https://github.com/juju/juju-core/releases is an empty tar.gz with only readme.md in it.
<snap-l> jrwren: Of course it is. ;)
<snap-l> *snerk*
<jrwren> wow... because that is how it was tagged. https://github.com/juju/juju-core/tree/1.11.2
<rick_h> heh, just see jcastro there, blame him
<jrwren> wow, juju has a lot of deps
<brousch> Must be a rick_h project!
<jrwren> i'd never place blame for that.
<jrwren> it just means a dev made good use of things which are already out there.
<brousch> Exactly
<rick_h> well, juju is Go and it has specific packaging policies
<jrwren> understood
<jrwren> which is SWEET! btw.
<jrwren> that is one of the best parts of go
<jrwren> whoa, when did bzr lp get bzr lp-propose?
<jrwren> that is kinda nice.
<rick_h> been there for a long time
<jrwren> works from cmdline so better than a github pull request
<rick_h> there's a new one to help with the reitveld/lp workflow
<jrwren> huh, i guess I've been out of LP
<rick_h> though not sure it's been 'released 'yet
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, it was there when I started nearly 2yrs ago. Seemed everyone did it
<rick_h> a guy on my squad wrote it
<jrwren> oh damn, it doesn't work for me.
<jrwren> bzr: ERROR: Unable to import library "launchpadlib": No module named launchpadlib
<rick_h> yea, needs bzr python lib
<jrwren> and launchpadlib separate from taht even!
<rick_h> oh sorry, launchpadlib is a seperate thing
<jrwren> but I can pip install it, so its all good
<rick_h> right
<jrwren> oh damn, how do I get bzr to use my venv?
<jrwren> install bzr into my venv I guess. *sigh*
<jrwren> i fail :)
<rick_h> yea, pip install bzr
<jrwren> :p https://code.launchpad.net/~evarlast/juju-core/osx-homebrew-goget/+merge/178379
<jrwren> it worked!
<jrwren> that is cool.
<jrwren> juju config needs to follow pep8 :p
<jrwren> 103 column lines FTL!
<jrwren> reading juju docs with cloud to butt installed is AWESOME
<rick_h> juju config? pyjuju?
<rick_h> or is this the new tools from marco?
<jrwren> my pep8 comment was about the environment.yaml
<jrwren> the yaml itself is fine. the comments in the template created by init -w are just too long
<jrwren> I had to widen my window :)
<rick_h> chromecast win. Lined up 6 muppets youtube videos for him while I start up dinner
<snap-l> woo woo woo
<rick_h> sweet, got my 3mo free netflix as well.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-03
<rick_h> heh, missed this one http://sourceforge.net/blog/today-we-offer-devshare-beta-a-sustainable-way-to-fund-open-source-software/
<snap-l> rick_h: Yeah, that's fucking brilliant
<rick_h> ok, so motox isn't what I want. /me waits for new nexus this fall hopefully...though 4.3 just came out :/ http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2422625,00.asp
<snap-l> Yeah, seems the MotoX is a mixed baf
<snap-l> bag, even
<rick_h> yea, more consumer than I had expected
<rick_h> note to self, nex time I go to test a massive 'reindex all bookmarks' celery job...make sure to clear out most of the bookmarks in the test system.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-04
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live now! (8/4/13 @ 8:30am EDT) http://www.youtube.com/embed/NkxPuVs3eXU - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<rick_h> around around for bookie testing?
<rick_h> ouch, rackspace servers aren't cheap.
 * rick_h really hopes this is free. Should be nice for bmark.us if it is.
<rick_h> ugh, nearly 14min to bring up the server instance
<snap-l> morning
<snap-l> er afternoon
<snap-l> reminder: meeting tonight
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-michigan/518/detail/
<snap-l> also of note: typed whole thing on my phone hsing mutt
<snap-l> like a boss
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> not sure if that's cool or crazy
<snap-l> A little of both, obviously. :)
<greg-g> wait, mutt on your phone?
<greg-g> why not just K-9 mail?
<rick_h> I'm guessing mutt over ssh
<greg-g> weird/insane indeed
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-28
<greg-g> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/grggrssmr/14575271770/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/1mAsPD - Sonoma swimming. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<greg-g> Friend's parents in Sonoma own a vineyard. This is Rowan and Carrie swimming in their pool. It was as amazing of a house as you think (well, almost, not extreme, but... very nice)
<rick_h__> nice!
<rick_h__> love the stone pool area like that
<rick_h__> vs straight grey concrete stuff
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> it was purty
<greg-g> also came home one bottle of wine richer :)
<greg-g> just bottled last month(?)
<rick_h__> always a good thing :)
<rick_h__> hmm, what kind of wine?
<greg-g> cab
<greg-g> not my fav, but it'll do
<rick_h__> put that away for a long time
<rick_h__> 7yr or so
<greg-g> wow, ok
<rick_h__> one month old it'll need a lot of settling to be yummy
<greg-g> he said it's about a 13% abv
<greg-g> and yeah, bottled on premise
<rick_h__> yea, but cabs are all biting flavors and guess they need time to smooth out
<rick_h__> I thought I didn't like cabs
<rick_h__> but then read up and tried one that was 8yr old
<rick_h__> it was delish
<rick_h__> so I think I just tried to get 1 or 2yr old bottles that weren't ready yet
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> cheaper maybe at that age
<rick_h__> http://www.winespectator.com/drvinny/show/id/44440
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/N3nsxj - How long can you cellar an exceptional California Cabernet Sauvignon? | Ask Dr. Vinny | Wine Spectator
<rick_h__> yea, they've not paid to store it for 5+ years
<rick_h__> warehouses are expensive and all that
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> I go by one on my way down to the city
<rick_h__> especially since they need to hold temp/etc
<greg-g> wine "cellar" storage place
<rick_h__> ah, very cool
<greg-g> yeah, I think you can rent small spaces in it
<greg-g> yeah, we won't be able to keep ours for 7 years safely :/
<greg-g> might have to JFDI
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h__> :)
<rick_h__> well let me know how it goes. It'd be awesome to do a taste test of wine at fresh, 2yr, 5yr, 8yr kind of thing
<rick_h__> and see how something ages like that
<rick_h__> but it'd have to be same vineyard, same grapes, etc
<greg-g> I might be able to get a few more bottles...
<greg-g> but, we don't have a safe place, really :/
<rick_h__> yea, same here
<rick_h__> it's just something to keep in mind when I buy things
<rick_h__> watching the years more carefully depending on the variety
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> Had a very nice 10yr old port this weekend. :)
<jrwren_> mmm... nom nom
<rick_h__> hah
<rick_h__> not tried much port yet
<cmaloney> http://www.fonseca.pt/en/port/wood/tawny-port/10-year-old/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/MlwJ49 - 10 Year Old Tawny Port | Fonseca Port
<rick_h__> had a LOT of rose in london with the heat
<cmaloney> yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Rose
<rick_h__> learning to appreciate a nice cool glass of wine at dinner
<rick_h__> So the ones that are less sweet I'm liking in the summer
<rick_h__> but yea, many of them aren't that great
<cmaloney> my parents drank a lot of that in the 1970s (as did everyone) so it tastes like old people to me.
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> cmaloney: you guys back from OH-land?
<cmaloney> Yeah, was a bit of fun getting back
<rick_h__> traffic?
<cmaloney> Weather
<rick_h__> ah, yea we went to a movie and they lost power
<rick_h__> had to leave in the middle of it
<rick_h__> must have been fun getting home in it
<cmaloney> Well, we had to get off of I-75 before I-696 because it was flooded / closed.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h__> morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<mrgoodcat> cold
<cmaloney> Yeah, this is definitely not the normal fare for summe
<cmaloney> r
<rick_h__> yay!
<rick_h__> done sweating my butt off in london
<rick_h__> "We have AC, we keep it at 80F but we have it"
<jrwren_> from where does London get its electricity?
<cmaloney> Apparently from good intentions
<mrgoodcat> got caught in a hail storm this weekend at my brother's lacrosse tournament
<mrgoodcat> not fun
<rick_h__> ouch
<jrwren_> not fun like training for a marathon is not fun, but in the end, you can say that you did it.
<jrwren_> You survived a HAILSTORM!!
<mrgoodcat> ha yea... i would rather not be able to say that
<mrgoodcat> hail hurts
<mrgoodcat> besides, i've done marathons so i don't need to add a hailstorm to the resume
<cmaloney> I think you're not thinking big enough
<cmaloney> Running through a hailstorm during a marathon while being chased by a tornado
<cmaloney> *FUN*
<cmaloney> Think of how improved your time will be
<cmaloney> jrwren_: That Medium piece you retweeted is hardly Google becoming IBM.
<jrwren_> *shrug*
<jrwren_> i agree.
<jrwren_> in fact, I found the author very naive.
<jrwren_> which he suggested a few times throughout.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> esp. the desire to get paid for an app that just brokers Kahn Academy content via Youtube.
<cmaloney> That's a "derp" moment right there.
<jrwren_> exactly.
<jrwren_> he espoused many values in that post, none of which align wiht my own.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it reminded me of the bad ol' days of Shareware
<cmaloney> or the "I can't afford to release this software without ads" mentality
<cmaloney> Which I find curious and repugnant
<jrwren_> shareware or ads?
<jrwren_> which search engine do you use?
<cmaloney> Shareware is fine
<cmaloney> the "it's free but with ads, and the ads can't be turned off for any amount of money"
<cmaloney> and yes, i use Google.
<jrwren_> oh! well that is annoying for sure.
 * jrwren_ hands cmaloney duckduckgo :p
<cmaloney> But how will Google know what I'm thinking?
<jrwren_> or show you ads which cannot be turned off for any amount of money?
<cmaloney> touche
<jrwren_> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Tainted Love by Gloria Jones on Singles
<cmaloney> wooah oh
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Unconditional by Neurotech on The Decipher Volumes [28 Jul 2014, 14:38]
<jrwren_> I thought you might like that :)
<jrwren_> neurotech sounds like industrial.
<cmaloney> 'tis
<cmaloney> This is a good cover of the Soft Cel Version. ;)
<jrwren_> :p
<cmaloney> I'm surprised how many songs I first heard as covers
<cmaloney> but that's how I discover some of my music
<cmaloney> I mean, Joe Jackson's Jumpin' Jive introduced me to Louis Jordan
<cmaloney> A non-trivial number of songs on that album are on the Best of Louis Jordan album
<cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Fireballs
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/wJBzQg - The Atomic Fireballs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
<cmaloney> Hah, I love the reference section of this article
<cmaloney> jrwren_: http://neurotech.bandcamp.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/lMpYS - Neurotech
<jrwren_> sweet artwork
<cmaloney> They've figured in a good number of OMC episodes: http://openmetalcast.com/?s=neurotech
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/D0vdlP - Open Metalcast Â» Search Results Â» neurotech
<jrwren_> 9:30 in, and I'm loving this track.
<jrwren_> thanks cmaloney
<cmaloney> np. :)
<cmaloney> They're all great. Decipher is quite good and mellow.
<cmaloney> Antagonist is much heavier
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-29
<mrgoodcat> date change
<rick_h__> morning
<jrwren_> Day changed to 29 Jul 2014
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Man I feel behind
<brousch> I hope it's yours or JoDee's
<cmaloney> Har har
<_stink_> jrwren_++
<cmaloney> https://twitter.com/Tabfugnic/status/474925280851947520
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rLF5xw - Twitter / Tabfugnic: Here's a really good example ...
<jrwren> _stink_: what did I do?
<cmaloney> You announced the date change.
<greg-g> mine does
<greg-g> ------------------- Day changed to 07/29/14 -------------------
<cmaloney> Mine too
<_stink_> i *think* you made a funny
<rick_h__> krondor: CHC tomorrow?
<cmaloney> Early edition tomorrow
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/events/cnt51bc5r02mmvqmuopd3kt3pvk?authkey=CKv44pOxxt7H0AE
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/iPT3Gy - Coffee House Coders Early Edition Meeting - Google+
<rick_h__> yea, probably be late but will be there
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Sieh in mein Gesicht by Unheilig on Zelluloid
<cmaloney> rick_h__: I'll take what I can get. :)
<cmaloney> Woo woo!!! Just found out that work will let me coordinate a "charity jeans day" for Wikimedia. :)
<mrgoodcat> what is a charity jeans day?
<mrgoodcat> i won't be at chc tomorrow
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: It's a corporate-sponsored event where they forego the business-casual dress code in favor of letting folks wear jeans.
<cmaloney> For a minimum donation
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> i'm wearing jeans today :)
<cmaloney> Which has lead me to quip that it could be for sending kids to club baby seals, as long as I get to wear jeans I'm cool with it. :)
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - The Place Where the Red Stars Hang by Petrychor
<cmaloney> http://www.intellivisionlives.com/media/stories/vegas00pix/karaoke1.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/3yJSVj - image/jpeg
<brousch> Where's the audio?
<greg-g> this is a kick ass talk from an HHVM dev talking at WMF right now: https://plus.google.com/events/cp5mjf6jrihevtdje8lmu5hvm1k
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/qr5tn4 - HHVM in production: what that means for Wikimedia developers - Google+
<cmaloney> brousch: Lost to the sands of time
<mrgoodcat> how does everybody here backup private keys?
<greg-g> ssh? gpg?
<mrgoodcat> ssh
<greg-g> I dont' care too much about them
<mrgoodcat> i want a way to save it securely so i can get it from random computers. or if my laptop dies i don't want my key to be gone
<mrgoodcat> i don't always have my laptop when i want my key
<greg-g> if I have to regen and ssh-copy-id after a laptop death, that's ok, if "backing up" means increasing the possibility of it being compromised
<greg-g> like, my work production ssh keys aren't anywhere but the laptops they're for
<greg-g> for GPG, check out http://git.kitenet.net/?p=gpg.git
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: We should get you to come out to MUG to talk about Chromebooks.
<cmaloney> I think I found the keyboard from hell
<cmaloney> http://www.humblehacker.com/keyboard/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/jCEvP3 - The Humble Hacker Keyboard
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-30
<greg-g> cmaloney: because the site is total shit and links to "DEAD REPO" github repos?
<cmaloney> greg-g: No, because it's a whacked out dvorak keyboard
<greg-g> :)
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: wish i didn't have class during MUG
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Me too
<mrgoodcat> speaking of things i can't go to. i wont be at chc tonight
<mrgoodcat> my mom's sister is in town from colorado and we're going up north for the end of the week
<mrgoodcat> so i'm leaving after work today
<cmaloney> All I'm hearing are excuses
<cmaloney> (Seriously though, I hope you have a great time. :) )
<cmaloney> This is the sort of weather that I love being "up north"
<brousch> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2014-07-30/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/tNR35Q - Dilbert comic strip for 07/30/2014 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.
<cmaloney> Was that supposed to be funny?
<brousch> Yes
<cmaloney> Just checking
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Dein Clown by Unheilig on Puppenspiel (Re-Release) [30 Jul 2014, 13:54]
<cmaloney> rick_h__: I have some albums you might want to borrow. :)
<rick_h__> hah
<cmaloney> klavier
<brousch> All of our camping stuff fits in the Prius. Getting a trailer hitch and bike rack next week.
<rick_h__> woot?
<brousch> I'm surprised
<rick_h__> trailer hitch on a prius seems...interesting
<brousch> It's just for the bike rack
<brousch> Prius rocked on the PyOhio trip. 46mpg
<rick_h__> nice
<brousch> $51 in gas
<greg-g> hey, trailer hitch shouldn't be a non-starter anyways. you know trains use electric engines to turn the wheels, right? :)
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> the diesel part is just to provide juice to the electric engines
<rick_h__> greg-g: I'm guessing their frames are a bit more...something
<greg-g> rick_h__: heh, true
<greg-g> having 100% torque at 0 rpm is the killer feature of electric
<brousch> People pull small trailers with their Priuses, but the official towing capacity is 0
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> well all the more reason I suggest it's an odd thought :)
<greg-g> interesting
<rick_h__> "void your warranty on your new fancy vehicle by mounting crap on it..."
<rick_h__> seems to require a second thought and all that
<jrwren> greg-g: 100% of zero is zero. All motors since begining of time have that feature.
<greg-g> jrwren: er, no
<greg-g> jrwren: electric motors have torque porportional to the current supplied, doesn't matter if they're spining yet or not
<brousch> I was surprised by the acceleration available if I put the hammer down
<jrwren> greg-g: err, yes.  torque is by definition, zero without motion.
<jrwren> greg-g: i know what you are trying to say - linear torque as apposed to the torque curves of combustion engines.
<greg-g> ahhh
<greg-g> I was wondering if I was using the wrong word :/
<jrwren> its ok, i'm wrong anyway.
<jrwren> if the torque isn't enough to CAUSE motion, then the torque can still exist without motion.
 * greg-g nods
<jrwren> i wonder how much torque is required to set an automobile in motion
 * greg-g shrugs
<greg-g> I'm no good at applied, theoretical is all I got ;)
<rick_h__> jrwren: flat or inflated tires :)
<greg-g> "average"
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Dark Age by Vader on The Ultimate Incantation
 * cmaloney loves his "Make Mine Metal" smart-mix
<cmaloney> I find it amusing that the older I get the less menacing some folks get
<cmaloney> Exhibit A: King Diamond: http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/mercyful-fate-shows-on-the-way
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/cjncYt - New KING DIAMOND Interview Suggests MERCYFUL FATE Shows On The Way | Metal Injection
<greg-g> I don't know, anyone who wears facepaint is just a clown to me
<brousch> http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120815195525/batman/images/4/49/MyCard_The_Joker.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/b0ukdB - image/jpeg
<brousch> http://sandiegofreepress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pennywise-clown-it.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/AgILy - image/jpeg
<cmaloney> OK, I think I have to send the youtube-dl folks some cash at some point
<cmaloney> seriously, this is the most amazing tool ever
<cmaloney> youtube-dl http://radar.oreilly.com/2014/07/signals-from-oscon-2014.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/4tLqj7 - Signals from OSCON 2014 - O'Reilly Radar
<cmaloney> Downloading all of the videosl
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-31
<jrwren> not good eh?
<rick_h__> it's party party CHC time
<rick_h__> or...rick finally files expense for work from April time
<rick_h__> either or I guess
<jrwren> cmaloney: oh! andrew sorensen did one of those oscon signals
<jrwren> hrm... no CHC for me.  pajamas for me.
<rick_h__> good call
<smoser> https://www.openstack.org/vote-paris/Presentation/ecure-containers-in-openstack-using-lxc-and-user-namespaces
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/k5dcex - Secure Containers in Openstack using LXC and User Namespaces
<jrwren> that'll never work.  ;]
<jrwren> j/k, I think it is sweet.
<jrwren> smoser: u got my vote :)
<jrwren> man, reading some of these openstack submissions makes me want to submit :p
<rick_h__> :)
<cmaloney> good morning
<smoser> random fyi/plug
<smoser>  http://insights.ubuntu.com/2014/07/31/voting-begins-for-openstack-summit-sessions-in-paris/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/PWrqqd - Voting begins for OpenStack Summit sessions in Paris | Ubuntu Insights
<jrwren> i already voted for all those :p
<jcastro> cmaloney, man, geoff tate is completely off the deep end
<jcastro> I mean, more than before
<jcastro> which is unbelieveable
<cmaloney> jcastro: It's pretty much put me off listening to Queensryche
<cmaloney> Which isn't hard because I pretty much wrote them off after promised land
<jcastro> heh
<cmaloney> Hear in the Now Frontier was not good
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - VictoriaÂ´s Secret by Sonata Arctica
<greg-g> the world of a manager: taking 30 minutes to re-groom your calendar for the next 3 weeks
<greg-g> next on the list for today: go through all of my 1:1 notes (7 direct reports right now), and extract my todos
<cmaloney> yay
<greg-g> btw, to toot my own horn: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-July/077853.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/i0bMWU - [Wikitech-l] Release Engineering team (new! improved!)
<cmaloney> nice!
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> thanks
<widox> cool, congrats greg-g
<greg-g> thanks widox :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-01
<jrwren> https://www.openstack.org/vote-paris/Presentation/astrologer  <- better than yours smoser. Sorry :]
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/sIS4Pj - astrologer
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Endless Endeavors by Cynic
<rick_h__> morning
<cmaloney> Guten Hello
<rick_h__> heh, not until tomorrow
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> Guten-free hello
<cmaloney> lol
<cmaloney> So I ordered a print from Imagekind, and tried to find a frame for it last night
<cmaloney> and found out that the print they generate is jjjuuuussstt a little too big for the frame I bought
<cmaloney> Which bums me out a bit.
<cmaloney> that said, this place makes some awesome artwork
<cmaloney> http://www.imagekind.com/Fall-Outing_art?IMID=f9f9b915-f916-4d6d-b758-1798cdd38e87
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/4vZW9W - Fall Outing by Eric Joyner
<cmaloney> That's not what I picked up, but I saw that and had to share.
<brousch> heh
<smoser> jrwren, that one does seem pretty good.
<jrwren> smoser: lol
<jrwren> smoser: There are A LOT of submissions. I've been voting during offtime ever since you linked.
<smoser> yeah, its crazy how many.
<smoser> to the point where most pepole that vote will not see even a small portion of the available.
<smoser> making the algorithm that selects which entry to show probably more important than the people voting.
<rick_h__> yea, it was brought up in irc yesterday how finding ones to vote on is so bad that it'll just lead to only voting for those you know to search for
<cmaloney> They need to do a runoff election. ;)
<cmaloney> Sort of how the ENNies do it.
<cmaloney> http://www.ennie-awards.com/blog/the-2014-ennies-voting-booth-is-now-live/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/osLIzD - 403
<cmaloney> Bah, that link won't tell you anything interesting
<cmaloney> but basically you ranked your preferences from 1-n
<cmaloney> Anyone looking for some Python / web work?
<brousch> cmaloney: I know someone who is looking
<cmaloney> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9058804/Python%20Application%20Developer.pdf
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/1fOVoa - application/pdf
<brousch> You leaving, or growing the team?
<cmaloney> I'm not leaving that I'm aware of.
<brousch> Nice way to put it
<brousch> How much on-site is required?
<cmaloney> Not entirely sure. My case was negotiable.
<brousch> OK
<rick_h__> some travel required?
<rick_h__> I guess some folks have been on site in the past
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm not sure if this is directly with my team or another team
<brousch> I'll send it on
<brousch> Too bad I couldn't get him to PyOhio
<jrwren> with ssh, isn't a config command of RemoteForward 8331 localhost:8331 the same as -R 8331:localhost:8331 ?  The former is not working for me.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Never tried it
<cmaloney> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TENNESSEE-15-STRING-BASS-GUITAR/291206411880?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D23982%26meid%3D8732770015257294257%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9421%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D291181795052
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/E4JKn4 - TENNESSEE 15 STRING BASS GUITAR | eBay
<cmaloney> What. The.Fuck.
<gamerchick02> hallo fellow hoomans. :)
<cmaloney> lo
<gamerchick02> how's it shaken?
<gamerchick02> it's friday wahoo. i can sleep in tomorrow
<cmaloney> Doing an interview related to Open Metalcast in an hour.
<greg-g> sleep in? Rowan woke up at 5am today :/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-02
<gamerchick02> cool, cmaloney.
<gamerchick02> greg-g, ugh
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Afternoon, even
<cmaloney> BTW: We have our monthly meeting tomorrow at 9pm
<gamerchick02> oooh, i'll try to remember. :-P thanks for the reminder
<gamerchick02> also, good afternoon. i've been cleaning and laundry and taking care of miscellaneous things
<gamerchick02> got two posters up, my shower head fixed, the apartment clean, and i need to contact the leasing office about my toilet.
<gamerchick02> does anyone have an idea how to fix a perpetually running toilet? just started this morning 6 am and i replaced the flapper
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-03
<cmaloney> evening
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> And Good afternoon
<cmaloney> Man, this place gets really quiet on weekends. :)
<cmaloney> May I never ever tire of bands who pun off of smoking weed: http://tornfleshrecords4.bandcamp.com/album/abandon-all-dope
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/4sSBvC - Abandon All Dope | Torn Flesh Records
<gamerchick02> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/08/op-ed-tables-really-are-pcsbecause-theres-no-point-in-buying-new-ones/ this is interesting
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/3CUN3D - Op-Ed: Tablets really are the new PCs; nobody needs to buy them any more | Ars Technica
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-27
<brousch> Detroit Makerfaire was great!
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> brousch: That's awesome! :)
<brousch> I'd never been to the Henry Ford. It was overwhelming
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's a lot to it
<cmaloney> It's a two-day museum
<brousch> It was hard to drag George past the regular exhibits so we could do all of the maker stuff
<cmaloney> One day for Henry Ford, one day for Greenfield Village
<jrwren> brousch: yeah, you should go back. Its great.
<jrwren> We haven't been there much this year, but most years we go to HFM at least twice and to the Village at least twice.
<brousch> It was only 2hrs and 15min drive, too
<brousch> I was most impressed and saddened by all the great booths by i3, Lansing Makers Network, AHA, etc. Sad because it reminded me of how dysfunctional our maker communities are in GR
<jrwren> i3 is HUGE now. Its grown so much.
<brousch> The build your car and race it was incredible
<brousch> My son's favorite was the droids, and the Artemis shap ship bridge simulator
<brousch> space ship
<jrwren> the wood box car... who ran that, AHA? I know they had lots of Ann Arbor First volunteers
<brousch> I thought that was i3
<jrwren> they might have had one too, but the one i"m thinking of wasn't i3.
<jrwren> oh, it was MakerSpace
<brousch> ah, right
<jrwren> Maker-Works.
<jrwren> sorry.
<brousch> I hadn't heard of it
<jrwren> I had, but I better have, because they are just on the other side of town :)
<jrwren> oh, and I've been at all but hte first maker faire. :)
<jrwren> This year, I don't feel like anything really stood out. It was really like a mix of all the past years.
<brousch> A lot of it was "take something you know, and make it really big"
<brousch> hot wheels loop, battleship, operation
<jrwren> ah, yeah. I think the take away on those is that its fun to make and someone actually made it.
<jrwren> did you watch mentos and coke?
<brousch> No, we missed it
<jrwren> damn!
<jrwren> its really worth seeing once.
<jrwren> We skipped it this year, because it doesn't change, even my daughter got bored :)
<jrwren> But they explain it all and show some of their different tests and say "TRY THIS AT HOME" :)
<brousch> The fiber arts section was good
<jrwren> what is that?
<brousch> knitting
<jrwren> ah, yup.
<jrwren> about the same as the past couple years, so we breezed through that area.
<brousch> They did a good job of bringing in typically female interests. My wife was actually excited to go
<jrwren> oh yeah.
<jrwren> My wife is who saved the date and picked the day :)
<brousch> I think it helped that I pushed my wife out of the house this year to socialize with other people. She joined a knitting club and Hacker Gals
<jrwren> always a good idea.
<brousch> cmaloney: Who do you have going to PyOhio this year?
<cmaloney> Too soon to tell
<cmaloney> This week has not been kind to us.
<cmaloney> JoDee's dad might have JoDee take off
<cmaloney> And we learned this morning that JoDee's sister's boyfriend's sister killed herself last night / this morning
<cmaloney> So not sure what is going on.
<cmaloney> On Sunday JoDee said I was going to PyOhio if for no other reason than to drive Andy (her friend) down there.
<cmaloney> I know my boss, his wife,  and several of my co-workers are going.
<brousch> Hm, complicated :(
<_stink_> yikes.
<brousch> Well we're in the Blackwell this year, so we'll meetup if you make it down
<cmaloney> brousch: Finally figured out the correct way to PyOhio
<cmaloney> ;)
<brousch> Well some years people want to be cheap
<brousch> We have 7 from GRPUG this year
<cmaloney> Nice!
<brousch> On guy is driving himself and staying with a friend in Columbus
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-28
<jrwren> walked into room with home server to hear the sound of a disk failing.
<jrwren> :(
<jrwren> it sounds just terrible.
<jrwren> but the system is running fine and well
<jrwren> ugh, and sudo pvs hangs.
<brousch> OMG you still use spinning rust?!
<brousch> http://i.memecaptain.com/gend_images/pWZ-hg.jpg
<jrwren> of course.
<jrwren> how else am I going to afford 12TB+ of storage?
<jrwren> holy crap, its making TERRIBLE sounds.
<jrwren> sounds like beeps.
<jrwren> oh wow, its the ST2000DM001-9YN1 and not the samsung.
<jrwren> cursed baracuda
<greg-g> got sudo back?
<jrwren> huh?
<greg-g> 14:57 <    jrwren> ugh, and sudo pvs hangs.
<greg-g> oh, pvs
<greg-g> I thought it said "sudo privs"
<jrwren> oh yes, it came back.
<greg-g> nvm :)
<jrwren> the beeps are so weird. I've never heard a HD failure cause system beeps
<jrwren> its rather annoying.
 * greg-g pushes down on the french press plunger, time for coffee
<jrwren> <3
 * jrwren sips his automatic drip and savors
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> jrwren: No fun
<jrwren> cmaloney: luckily, hte disk was not in use. I did pvremove on it a while ago because of crazy SMART errors.
<jrwren> cmaloney: err, no, I ram pvmove.  pvremove would fail for some lvm metadata reason.
<jrwren> now that the disk ACTUALLY failed, pvremove just worked.
<jrwren> *sigh*
<jrwren> watch, I'll probably reboot and LVM will totally fail, not finding metadata.
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> I've not used lvm for RAID. NEver though to use it for that.
<jrwren> cmaloney: its rather nice because its all in one system.
<jrwren> cmaloney: I don't think it performs QUITE as fast as MD, but really, maybe it does since they are both abstactions on device mapper anyway.
<jrwren> cmaloney: its great because you lvcreate and say "mirror" and now you have 2 copies across devices for that partition
<jrwren> and its LVM, so you are carving chunks out of hte pool, not worrying about matching PV sizes.
<jrwren> cmaloney: I'm pretty sure that this is partly how synology does its mirroring
<jrwren> anyway, I got the idea from synology
<cmaloney> Ah, neat
<cmaloney> I'm using md for mine so I'm a bit committed at the moment. :)
<jrwren> :)
<jrwren> I know some sysadmin purists (I like to call them old curmudgeons) poo-poo this approach, but it has worked really well for me.
<jrwren> and I'm rather excited to add a cache disk.
<cmaloney> The only difference between an experienced sysadmin and a punter is the number of bite marks in their ass
<jrwren> cmaloney: hahaha! true
<cscheib> luckily, my worst disk experience so far has been the early-2.6 kernel xfs bug.
<cscheib> jrwren: are you @sadserver? https://twitter.com/planetpuppet/status/626047828687597572
<jrwren> cscheib: nope, what is sadserver?
<cscheib> gah
<cscheib> sent wrong link
<cscheib> https://twitter.com/sadserver/status/626047963807227905
<jrwren> cscheib: hahaha, luckily all filesystems are operation, its just a disk that finally went boom.
<brousch> Hm, it's a 15" 5lb tablet http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/inspiron-15-7558-laptop/pd?ref=PD_OC
<cscheib> jrwren: sadserver is like the marvin the android from HHGTG of sysadmin twitter accounts
<jrwren> cscheib: hahahaha
<jrwren> cscheib: brain the size of a planet!
<jrwren> brousch: $549 isn't bad at all
<brousch> i7 for $850
<jrwren> i wonder how slow a pentium is.
<jrwren> do they have a 13" 2-in-1 ?
<jrwren> ooh they do, but it costs more :(
<brousch> Core M
<jrwren> oh no, its even less.
<brousch> I have a Core M. I'm not impressed with its speed, especially graphics
<jrwren> more my style: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/inspiron-13-7348-laptop/pd?oc=cai137nw10b5018p&model_id=inspiron-13-7348-laptop
<jrwren> IntelÂ® PentiumÂ® Processor 3825U
<brousch> 13.3-inch HD (1366 x 768)
<jrwren> so... faster than a macbook, but not by much, still not fast enough to use google hangouts and something else at the same time.
<jrwren> yeah, that low res must be why it is so cheap.
<jrwren> man dell's website sucks.
<jrwren> i cannot find the 13" equiv screen to what you linked.
<brousch> http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/inspiron-13-7352-laptop/pd?ref=PD_OC
<jrwren> oooh, they have an 11" 2-in-1 for $329!
<jrwren> how did you find that?
<jrwren> i wonder if that $329 would run ubuntu touch nicely?
<jrwren> wow, no 5Ghz wifi, and a spinning rust disk. its like they aren't even trying.
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> dell? not trying? say it ain't so!
<brousch> They're trying, just not very hard
<jrwren> greg-g: hehehe
<jrwren> sorry, i'm sometimes known as captain obvious
<brousch> I got Kubuntu 15.04 running on lenovo miix 2 11, but it only recognized single touch
<jrwren> <3 SATA hot swap
<jrwren> cursed out of warranty drive!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-29
<jrwren> oh yeah, new lv just for lxc with an lvcache pool.
<jrwren> went from 33s for lxc-create to 8.5s
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<brousch> Of course. It's Windows 10 day!
<jrwren> ugh.
<jrwren> i'm so sick of hearing about windows 10.
<jrwren> i actually dread when win7 goes out of support, becuase soon after my wife will start asking for support.
<brousch> It's the newest Windows!
<jrwren> so was windows me, at one point.
<cmaloney> Hey, they fixed the start menu
<jrwren> kinda.
<cmaloney> so now if you have more than 500 entries it'll just silently truncate them
<jrwren> is there a way to make windows 10 look and act just like windows 7? no? then I'm not interested :)
<brousch> It has less monkey sweat than previous Windows!
<cmaloney> because Microsoft likes hard limits
<jrwren> 500?!?! yow
<cmaloney> jrwren: Windows 7 is Windows Xp all over again
<brousch> It's similar to win7
<brousch> Really it's not bad
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ars did a great write-up on Windows 10
<cmaloney> as is their wont
<jrwren> brousch: you once learned to use win8 or win81?  I can't figure those out, so I do not want to waste time figuring out win10 when win7 works fine for all my use cases.
<jrwren> All my use cases being Starcraft2 and EAC :)
<brousch> I've spent probably 100 hours using win8, and hated it
<brousch> They hid most of the win8 annoyances in "tablet mode", which you can toggle easily
<jrwren> oh, so you really can use it like win7?
<brousch> PRetty much
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/review-windows-10-is-the-best-version-yet-once-the-bugs-get-fixed/
<brousch> Have to search for everything, like settings, since they moved them around
<jrwren> did Peter write that?
<jrwren> yeah, I only trust Peter so far, he is deep in it coming from a VERY different POV than me.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's Peter Bright
<cmaloney> Almost like my trust of Paul Thurrot to talk about things related to MS that I couldn't care less about
<cmaloney> but at least do some research
<cmaloney> Unlike that tool that they got on Cranky Geeks (Enderle, iirc)
<cmaloney> I swear Rob Enderle is like a stopped clock: only right twice a day and only for one second before he gets it completely wrong again.
<brousch> I still prefer KDE
<jrwren> I chatted with Peter 10+yrs ago in #linux on ars irc. So maybe I know him a tiny bit better than some? But ALWAYS consider the source :)
<cmaloney> yeah, no kidding
<jrwren> Thurrot, same thing. doesn't understand or use tech the same way I do, and definitely is pro-ms in everything.
<cmaloney> jrwren: you were my go-to person for non-bullshit Windows info
<jrwren> I mean, the guy talks about windows phone like its a real thing. What is it? 1% of the market?
<jrwren> cmaloney: sorry, I left that world :)
<cmaloney> I'm not sorry in the slightest
<cmaloney> Well, Thurrot definitely has his head in the punchbowl looking to get the purest mixture.
<cmaloney> And I'm sure Windows Phone is what the Windows-faithful want
<cmaloney> Much like somoene telling me they still take Blackberry seriously.
<cmaloney> They tend to have a junk-drawer-full of the previous generations of faith.
<cmaloney> Same can be said about any OS, really.
<jrwren> cmaloney: its true. I feel like when you start talking about things with 1% market share and less, they kind of all get the same treatment. Windows Phone, Ubuntu Phone, Amiga and BeOS diehards, OS2 users, freebsd users, any bsd users.
<jrwren> its like, yes, your stuff works, unfortunately its also entirely irrelevant
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, it's kind of cool to see people still rocking the Amiga / BeOS
<cmaloney> and kind of sad in a way.
<cmaloney> I'm sure someone out there is excited about Amiga OS 4.1
<brousch> Linux desktop ...
<jrwren> brousch: its true!
<jcastro> I've had a few win10 boxes for a while if anyone has questions
<jrwren> jcastro: how bad does it suck?
<jrwren> jcastro: :)
<jrwren> i'm j/k.
<jrwren> I know that any dislike I have is really a matter of taste and old kurmudgeonness
<jcastro> shrug, it's pretty good
<jcastro> boot time is nice
<jrwren> i'm afraid htat if i upgrade, someone will have moved my cheese and it will piss me off lots.
<jcastro> they finally have virtual desktop
<jrwren> oh that is right! maybe I'll love it!
<cmaloney> Yay Virtual Desktop
<cscheib> jrwren: that's a big step in life, admitting you've talked to Peter
<cscheib> the road to recovery begins with acknowledgement
<jrwren> cscheib: hahahah
<cscheib> he is a vile human being
<greg-g> jrwren is vile? man, don't say that in front of him
<jrwren> i knew what cscheib meant.
<greg-g> :P
<cscheib> heh
<cscheib> jrwren: I should probably be in A2 tomorrow, if you wanna grab lunch.  hopefully I wake up early enough to go ou there
<jrwren> cscheib: cool, sounds good.
<jrwren> cscheib: should we see if jcastro is around?
<cscheib> sure
<jcastro> marco is here
<jcastro> so yes, count us in
<jcastro> we have a charm school @ 4pm though, so any time before then would be ideal
<cmaloney> Marco Armet?
<cscheib> don't believe I know Marco
<jcastro> you don't, but I was just saying I am hosting a guest
<jcastro> which means I also have transportation!
<cmaloney> woo woo!
<cscheib> aha
<cscheib> where shall we eat?  somewhere not too crazy far from State/Eisenhower
<cscheib> within 5-10 min drive of there
<cscheib> (including parking)
<jrwren> if it is downtown, I can ride my bike :)
<jrwren> i guess I can ride my bike to state/eisenhower too
<jcastro> Los Amigos is good
<jcastro> also bee dubs
<jrwren> jcastro: Ceppi ?
<jcastro> jrwren: yeah, two person sprint heh
<jrwren> jcastro: cool!
<jrwren> Los Amigos sounds really good to me.
<cscheib> yea, no bdubs. there's enough salt in their food to season a week's worth of meals
<jrwren> not to mention the clorine washed tyson chicken? :)
<cscheib> that too
<cscheib> I can do los amigos
<cscheib> is that the place we went last timte?
<cscheib> *time
<jcastro> no
<jcastro> this is a sitdown mexican place across from the mall
<jrwren> cscheib: did I never take you there? they have great lunch specials and very reasonable prices.
<jrwren> cscheib: its just before the i94 entrance when you are going south on state, on the right, behind a BP gas station
<cscheib> very bodega-y?
<jrwren> I am unsure.
<cscheib> we went to some mexican place once, when jorge wouldn't leave the house
<jrwren> lol, that was probably it.
<jrwren> i can't remember where we went and didn't. I know we got Chipotle and I know we went to Madras Masala a couple ties.
<jrwren> *times.
<jrwren> I'd love to get back there sometimes.
<jrwren> omg, cannot type. I quit. :)
<cscheib> I don't recall ever going to Chipotle... we went to Frita Batido and that pizza place
<cscheib> I can barely type either... I got a clicky keyboard, and it's taking some getting used to
<cscheib> too used to the macbook chiclets now
<jrwren> mmm... Frita
<jrwren> Neopapolis, they are good too.
<jrwren> we have good taste :)
<cmaloney> (Chipotle is awesome)
<greg-g> I dislike cilantro rice
<jrwren> greg-g: WHAT?!?!
<greg-g> I'm one of those who thinks cilantro tastes like soap
<jrwren> greg-g: you poor poor sad man.
<cmaloney> greg-g: I feel sorry for your tastebuds
<jrwren> greg-g: at least you don't have it for hops.
<jrwren> GENE THEARAPY!!!
<greg-g> no, I just now get migraines from too many hops :/
<jrwren> lol, is it really the hops?
<cmaloney> greg-g: I think you need to look into transhumanisnm
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> jrwren: wheat beers like blue moon don't affect me
<cmaloney> because your body is obviously defective
<greg-g> I did extensive testing, believe me :)
<cmaloney> What about stouts and porters or are those right out?
<cmaloney> https://www.humblebundle.com/books?music_bookbundle
<cmaloney> God dammit
<greg-g> I haven't drank many of those mostly due to weather out here :)
<cscheib> it does taste like soap
<jrwren> OR6A2 gene therapy
<cscheib> ugh, I need to focus on learning a language and sticking with it one of these days
<jrwren> cscheib: python is the best.
<cscheib> whyfor
<jrwren> cuz I R developer with Opinions and no brains
<cscheib> well, I knew that
<cscheib> I've messed with Ruby a bit, but not done anything serious with it
<cscheib> and I haven't used perl in ages, so using it again woudl pretty much be akin to relearning it
<cscheib> I try not to do anything of significant complexity in bash.
<jrwren> bash4 is awesome. finally, hashes in the shell. no use for perl no more :p
<jrwren> and debian finally got their head out their ass and enabled /dev/tcp in bash.
<cscheib> WAT https://imessageforwindows.org/
<cmaloney> I'm really liking Python
<cscheib> not sure if I should install that app, but imessage on windows would be fantastic.
<brousch> jrwren: You are recommending Python over C# now?
<cscheib> he probably knows there's no way I'd go for C#
<jrwren> brousch: hrm... really tough call.
<jrwren> brousch: it depends on the use case. C# on windows, python everywhere else.
<cscheib> C# and not PS?
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> PS is an abomination
<jrwren> PS never should have existed. The industry is setback by years by it.
<jrwren> It is sad really.
<brousch> Hm, I've heard it's quite good, but then it's replacing .bat files
<cscheib> every Windows person I know LOVES them some PowerShell
<cscheib> especially Exchange and VMWare guys
<brousch> A former Python dev I know started a PS user group he loves it so much
<jrwren> oh, I didn't say it wasn't beloved.
<jrwren> perl is beloved.
<jrwren> its still pretty shitty.
<jrwren> java is beloved.
<jrwren> its still pretty shitty.
<brousch> java is beloved?
<jrwren> I R developer with Opinions
<jrwren> brousch: fuk yeah, ever talk to java devs? they LOVE that shit
<brousch> I must be missing something
<cscheib> he is correct
<cscheib> Java devs don't like it
<cscheib> err do like it
<cscheib> it's the admins that don't like it
<jrwren> they still think C# is Dflat. They still think the JVM is faster than .NET. They still think the JVM is fast period. They don't see any problems with the java language.
<jrwren> blows my mind everytime run into them.
<jrwren> but then again, I hate almost everything :)
<brousch> Well if you never try anything else ...
<brousch> Doing my clean win10 install now
<jrwren> i'm too scared to upgrade. I fear all will break. And I'm happy with win7, so no upgrade for me.
<brousch> what happened to you?
<jrwren> brousch: starcraft2. I can't be fixing a broken windows computer instead of playing sc2
<jrwren> seriously, I think I really got sick of fixing broken OS. I'd rather fix broken apps, or create new apps.
<jrwren> I think win11 will be what I really like. openssh, maybe posix apis(fingers crossed).
<cscheib> actually, from what I've heard, the JVM is actually pretty fast... just not interpreting Java
<cscheib> jruby, clojure, etc... are fast allegedly
<jrwren> cscheib: lol. fast compared to what.
<jrwren> cscheib: java is faster than any of those language on JVM.
<jrwren> that is hte funny part. fast is relative. faster than what? yeah, jruby is fast, because ruby is so damn slow.
<cscheib> there was some discussion regarding it somewhere wrt puppet
<cscheib> they chose clojure on JVM
<cscheib> for performance
<cscheib> for both puppetdb and puppetserver
<cscheib> seems to be a popular go-to in some circles, now
<jrwren> definitely. I know some folks who love it, and when you are used to Ruby, its fast.
<jrwren> When you are used to C, or go, its hilarious by comparison.
<cscheib> brousch: my Win10 upgrade went decently
<cscheib> the only thing I really had issues with was the GeForce driver/GeForce Experience app
<cscheib> the GeForce app wouldn't upgrade the drivers for me... it failed on deleting/upgrading PhysX
<cscheib> so I had to use Windows to search online for the new driver
<cscheib> and... then they came into some kind of agreement.
<jrwren> I couldn't handle that. It'd drive me mad.
<jrwren> maybe it is because my win8.1 experience was so bad and I wasted so many hours on it.
<jrwren> brousch: so that is what happened to me. I started valuing my time a lot more.
<cscheib> I don't mind 8.1, other than the janky start screen
<cscheib> it's kinda f'ed up when you have a 1440p display, run everything in non-fullscreen windows, and then you get jolted into a full screen start menu
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-30
<jrwren> whoo hooo... every lxc i start is on public ipv6. muhuwahahaha!
<jrwren> now if only every else were on ipv6
<cmaloney> dream on
<cscheib> jrwren: teach me how to make a pretty interface for a REST API for my Isilon plzkthx
<jrwren> cscheib: ugh. i don't know how ot make pretty interfaces.
<cscheib> heh
<cscheib> jrwren: wrapping my thick skull around parsing json
<jrwren> cscheib: like, parsing it yourself, or calling json.loads() ?
<cscheib> well, using ruby
<cscheib> but calling json.parse
<cscheib> just remembered I have ruby cookbook, which should have something useful in it.
<cscheib> alright, got this shit figured out.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cscheib> jrwren: you still in for lunch? I'm thining 1230ish
<jrwren> cscheib: yes, I'm still in. 12:30 works for me.
<cscheib> k, I'll text when I'm in A2 to solidify
<jrwren> cscheib: cool. hopefully jcastro and marcoceppi can make it.
<jrwren> kdub: Want to join us?
<kdub> jrwren, have to pass :/, not very developer-mobile at the moment (in the market for a new laptop)
<jrwren> kdub: Maybe next time.
<kdub> for sure, thanks for the invite!
<cscheib> jrwren: jcastro said he's getting a new dog
<cscheib> apparently jill set up an appt during lunch
<jrwren> cscheib: WAT?!?  lame.  cool that his current dog will have a playmate.
<jrwren> cscheib: I've never seen marco on US soil, so I was looking forward to that :)
<cmaloney> Grrr...
<cmaloney> Tagspaces didn't release a .deb package for their latest version. :(
<cmaloney> I has irritation
<jrwren> wtf is tag spaces? do you want me to build you a deb?
<cmaloney> jrwren: http://www.tagspaces.org/
<cmaloney> I sent the developers an issue
<cmaloney> It has a tarball that I could install but that's a PITA.
<jrwren> given that it is node and webkit, making a deb wouldn't be trivial :(
<jcastro> cscheib: hey
<jcastro> dog is a scratch, so where you guys meeting?
<jrwren> jcastro: los amigos on State at 12:30
<jcastro> jrwren: cscheib: we'll be there.
<jrwren> cool!
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, it's a pain in the ass
<cscheib> jcastro: nice
<cscheib> jrwren: just got to A2
<cscheib> so 1230 is a go
<cmaloney> https://watson-pi-demo.mybluemix.net/
<brousch> Seems accurate
<brousch> Approximately how much does a job like this pay? Canonical - software engineer (foundations) https://ldd.tbe.taleo.net/ldd01/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=997
<jrwren> brousch: whatever you want it to.
<brousch> Thanks :P
<greg-g> aka: negotiate :)
<brousch> I have a suspicion that jobs in the open source world pay less than those in the commercial sector, but I have no idea if it's true
<greg-g> depends if the company is non-profit or not
<greg-g> that's the bigger factor
<jrwren> brousch: it has not been my experience.
<jrwren> but then, much of what I write is closed source, so go figure :p
<brousch> heh
<greg-g> when will people learn: Canonical != open source :P
<greg-g> (your troll of the day)
<jrwren> greg-g: hahahaha.
<brousch> Is Canonical going to shut down when it gets to Zippy Zebra?
<_stink_> maybe unicode next
<jrwren> brousch: wrap around to a is the official policy. sorry.
<greg-g> gawd, emoji release names, please pleaes tell me no one has done that
<brousch> jrwren: I actually like Canonical, so no need to be sorry
<brousch> I think I'll apply for that job. I lack C/C++ and recent experience with other things, but they are easy to pick up.
<jrwren> greg-g: good idea!  does git let me tag things with ð­
<greg-g> dunno
<jrwren> git push origin
<jrwren>  * [new tag]         ð­ ->
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> hahahaha
<jrwren> https://github.com/jrwren/jrwren.github.io/tree/ð­
<jrwren> github even supports it in the url. well done
<jrwren> there ya go greg-g, since github tags are releases: https://github.com/jrwren/jrwren.github.io/releases
<greg-g> oh gawd
<greg-g> the end of the world
<jrwren> i love that you give me credit of such power.
<brousch> that is so not right
<cmaloney> brousch: I made a huge jump in pay when I went to work for Sourceforge from contracting at Chrysler.
<cmaloney> from roughly $60k to $80k
<brousch> Heh, someone asked if I'd be interested in working at Sourceforge. I cringed.
<cmaloney> Wait until the dust settles
<brousch> Hopefully they can find a more benevolent overlord
<cmaloney> Honestly when they were bought by Dice I had a serious offer to come back to work for them
<cmaloney> but the whole Dice thing didn't sound right at all
<cmaloney> I'm sad that my hunch proced prescient.
<cmaloney> That and I didn't want to go back into an ops position
<cmaloney> Sorry, but I like not having a pager go off at 3am
<brousch> heh
<cscheib> cmaloney: man, people on the Chrysler side really got shafted in general
<cscheib> <-- used to work for EDS/CSC
<cscheib> when the Chrysler folk came over to the CSC side, they all made at least 20% less than their counterparts who worked at EDS or CSC originally
<cscheib> in similar positions
<wolfger> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/kde-reveals-plasma-mobile
<wolfger> I'm happy about this in principle, but... I want those 7 minutes of my life back that I wasted on that video.
<wolfger> Could have just summed it up by saying "It does what any other phone does... mostly. And plasmoids too."
<wolfger> cscheib: you used to work for CSC? I'm sorry.
<wolfger> although all I know about them comes from people who were absorbed via Chrysler, I heard absolutely nothing good, or even indifferent about them.
<wolfger> I'm so glad I escaped that. I had Chrysler folk watching my back for me.
<cscheib> wolfger: honestly, the worst part of Chrysler for me was Chrysler
<cscheib> Chrysler senior management couldn't pull their heads out of their asses to save their own lives
<cscheib> I got paid really well, and knew how to get most of what I wanted
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-31
<greg-g> I love my team:
<greg-g> curl -s https://raw.githubusercontent.com/thcipriani/fridayrc/master/fridayrc | bash
<greg-g> (really, doit, you'll thank yourself later)
<jrwren> curl | sh. nope, not even once.
<mrgoodcat> especially when someone posts it in an irc channels and says "really, doit"
<jrwren> http://tylercipriani.s3.amazonaws.com/fridayrc/friday.gsm.wav is good enough
<jrwren> oh, hahahhaa, the ascii slide show is hilarious
<greg-g> see, do it!
<jrwren> that python frame sync is pretty slick.
<greg-g> tyler is awesome
<gamerchick02> question: new SSD for the desktop?
<gamerchick02> aka should i get one?
<greg-g> always
<gamerchick02> which one would you recommend?
<gamerchick02> not sure if i want to pay $389 at microcenter for a 1 tb. is that a good deal?
<devinheitmueller> Seems pretty pricey given you can buy 1 TB drives off NewEgg for $52.00.
<gamerchick02> http://www.microcenter.com/product/442388/850_EVO-Series_1TB_SATA_III_6Gb-s_25_Internal_Solid_State_Drive_(SSD)_Single_Unit_Version_MZ-75E1T0B-AM
<gamerchick02> i was hoping to pick it up tomorrow
<devinheitmueller> Ah, itâs an SSD.
<gamerchick02> yes SSD
<gamerchick02> that's what i want
<greg-g> sweet spot price/size for ssd for main system, sweet spot price/size spinning rust for everythiung else
<greg-g> it is a desktop :)
<gamerchick02> yes sir
<devinheitmueller> Seems pretty reasonable compared to what Iâm seeing on Newegg for 1 TB SSDs.
<gamerchick02> i have a 1 TB slow-ass drive for data
<gamerchick02> i mean i can put my OS (win 10 now woo) and my games on the SSD and ~data~ on my other TB drive
<gamerchick02> but i've got an issue because of the way my stupid ex mounted these things in my computer.
<gamerchick02> meh i might wait
<jrwren> ping
<cscheib> jrwren: pong?
<cscheib> gamerchick02: I have a 480GB Intel 730-series SSD that's great.  Think it was around $200.
<gamerchick02> ooo nice
<gamerchick02> thank you
<cscheib> yw.  The 730 series came pretty highly recommended by a few people
<gamerchick02> nice. i'm trying to decide if i want to spend that much on a new drive.
<cscheib> certainly played Witcher 3 well
<gamerchick02> sweet
<cscheib> there's a 240GB version that'st nearer $100
<cscheib> I had to have enough space for a few VM's, though
<gamerchick02> i don't need that
<cscheib> since you have a 1TB spinning drive, I'd get something in the 120-240GB range, then
<gamerchick02> nice
<cscheib> they can be had pretty cheaply
<gamerchick02> i was thinking half a TB
<gamerchick02> i've got 115 of games/programs alone. ugh
<cscheib> any games I'm actively playing get installed to SSD, then demoted to HDD afterthey're out of primary rotation
<gamerchick02> hehe ok
<cscheib> if you're running Windows, a lot of motherboards have a "build your own hybrid" tech as well, but that only works for up to 64GB I think
<gamerchick02> i am running windows
<gamerchick02> on this machine
<cscheib> http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/smart-response-technology.html
<gamerchick02> anyway... i want to run win10 and games/etc on the SSD and all my files on the TB drive
<gamerchick02> thanks
<gamerchick02> ok so, extra desktops in win10 is a killer feature
<gamerchick02> dunno why they didn't do this beofre
<gamerchick02> *before
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-01
<jrwren> wasn't sure if my inet was out or what. still not sure if it was comcast or battle.net :)
<jrwren> i rmember powertools for XP had a virtual desktop thing
<gamerchick02> yeah it did
<gamerchick02> i dunno why they killed it. it's so damn useful. i use it on linux and on mac, and now on windows. i could use it forever at work
<gamerchick02> i'm watching Murder She Wrote and they're using an old computer.
<gamerchick02> sounds like a buckling spring keyboard
<jrwren> vista killed it, cuz dwm works differently
<brousch> cmaloney: You at PyOhio?
<cmaloney> brousch: Just got here
<cmaloney> was at a viewing around 3:30pm
<brousch> We're in the lounge
<cmaloney> Cool. PLanning on heading there in a bit
<gamerchick02> nice. how's PyOhio so far?
<brousch> Not yet started
<gamerchick02> ok
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-02
<rick_h_> hello native tz
<cmaloney> rick_h_: WElcome back to EDT
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> https://github.com/tagspaces/tagspaces/issues/311
<cmaloney> Not sure how I feel about holding packages back for some "pro" version
<brousch> We had breakfast with K Lars Lohn. Be jealous
<rick_h_> cmaloney: heh, time to manage a PPA and steal from the pro package
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> brousch: I am jealous
<gamerchick02> woo woo?
<cmaloney> Just a random woo woo
<cmaloney> for rick_h_'s suggestion
<cmaloney> BTW: I might be late for the meeting this evening
<cmaloney> so if I'm not in here by 9:15pm assume I'm running late. :)
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> i should be on
<cmaloney> we're driving back from Ohio and there might be storms
<cmaloney> which is typical
<gamerchick02> oh yeah
<gamerchick02> good luck with the drive
<cmaloney> Thanks!
<gamerchick02> :) shouldn't be too bad. you're going against traffic (north instead of south) so there shouldn't be a ton of delays
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> cmaloney: i'm catching up on your ZX series. Really fun stuff. Nice short posts.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-01
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> morning!
<cmaloney> rick_h_: How was the drive back?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: i hate my wife's car
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Which one is that? I'm still thinking you have Ruby, and that's not right
<rick_h_> cmaloney: the VW sportwagen
<rick_h_> wagon
<cmaloney> Ah, right
<rick_h_> small, cramped, and being a "sport" means "no suspension give"
<cmaloney> Well, to be fair, it's not the luxury-liner of your truck. ;)
<rick_h_> to be fair...I'm spoiled
<cmaloney> But yeah, even though the Caliber was my old car it's strange for me to drive it. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> https://plus.google.com/+CraigMaloney/posts/bmC4p9HtZSy
<shakes808> How was PyOH?
<cmaloney> Pretty good
<cmaloney> Some really good talks
<cmaloney> lots of energy
<shakes808> awesome.  going to try to go next year
<cmaloney> Cool!
<cmaloney> It'll be the tenth year of PyOhio.
<shakes808> haha, sweet.
<shakes808> is pyohio last weekend in july every year? or does the date float?
<cmaloney> It tends to be the last weekend in July
<cmaloney> next year's is announced
<shakes808> I don't see it. The site still has this past date still up there
<rick_h_> they just got confirmation today and posted it on twitter
<rick_h_> check their twitter account
<shakes808> rick_h_: ... what is twitter?!  haha.  I will see if I can log into mine.  I don't do the social media often.
<rick_h_> shakes808: ummm, ok. Well, then you might see if cmaloney can send you a handwritten letter
<rick_h_> preferably in quil and ink, but maybe #2 pencil :)
<cmaloney> I'll sharpen up my Field Notes pencil for just such an occasion
<shakes808> rick_h_: I would prefer quil.  I enjoy the wax stamp as well!  It makes it official
<rick_h_> oooh, not sure how cmaloney signet ring is doing these days
<shakes808> rick_h_: HAHA, then I am not sure if I will be able to make it, since it isn't official  ;)
<rick_h_> shakes808: will be a bummer man
<shakes808> OSU campus, then I will be wearing my U of M shirts that weekend :)
<rick_h_> john did that...kind of crazy if you ask me but to each their own
<cmaloney> heh
<shakes808> Did he come home? cmaloney, did he show up to work today? [ he still works there, correct? ]
<cmaloney> Yeah, he made it back
<cmaloney> (was going to joke about OSU removing him from the timeline, but that's a power even OSU doesn't have)
<cmaloney> s/doesn't/shouldn't/
<shakes808> HAHA, nice
<greg-g> rick_h_: I remember when nixternal almost got into a fight with a middle-aged woman at a bar for yelling "GO BLUE!" at OhioLinuxFest :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, I remember going back to the hotel early after wearing a big UM shirt to OLF
<rick_h_> greg-g: especially since we went to a bar with an OSU game playing on the big screens...didn't feel I had chosen wisely
<greg-g> :) :)
<greg-g> Richard wasn't one to second guess his bad decisions ;)
<rick_h_> no...he liked to be proven wrong first
<greg-g> makes sense I guess, give him data and all
<rick_h_> lol, data driven
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> I'm not sure he updated based on new information. ;)
<rick_h_> well, you never know if it's an outlier or not
<rick_h_> until you gather more data
<greg-g> exactly
<cmaloney> had to have a compelling reason
<greg-g> need a/b testing
<cmaloney> hah
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> "first I walked in with a subdued UM hat
<greg-g> lol
<rick_h_> "after no reaction I B tested with a loud UM jump suit"
<cmaloney> "then a Mariachi band playing 'Hail to the Victors'"
<rick_h_> "the jump suit definitely gathered a larger reaction"
<cmaloney> Recommend traveling with the U of M marching band for conclusive evidence.
<rick_h_> I'd rather be backed up by the UM offensive and defensive line players
<rick_h_> the band...not so much
<shakes808> rick_h_: +1 haha
<cmaloney> Never underestimate the power of the Tuba player.
<cmaloney> You remember Diana. You know better than to trifle with her. ;)
 * rick_h_ was in the band, they're full of hot air! bwuhahahahahahahaha
<shakes808> cmaloney: is it the player that you shouldn't underestimate, or the use of the tuba?
<cmaloney> both
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Save for the drummers. We know how to beat things.
<cmaloney> ba-dum-PISH
<rick_h_> oh boy, we're in deep now
<cmaloney> and with the way UofM is playing I'd rather be in the band because they're the only ones beating anything.
<shakes808> cmaloney: HAHA, just need to make sure it is the right thing that they are beating....  X)
<cmaloney> ba-dum-PISH
<rick_h_> says the professional sportsball commentator
<cmaloney> I think the only thing they say that's right is "Next year". ;)
<cmaloney> (OK, I'ma gonna stop talking out of my ass now)
<shakes808> haha, there goes the fun
<cmaloney> i think rick_h_ knows I know about as much about Football as I do about Country Music.
<cmaloney> eg: not much
<cmaloney> ie, rather
<rick_h_> :P I know UM is at the top of the rankings for the coming year
<jrwren> they are?
<jrwren> GO BLUE!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-02
<cmaloney> morn... um... afternoon. :)
<jrwren> dropped an SSD into this laptop from 2009 and it makes a great little home
<jrwren> server thingy
<cmaloney> nice!
<cmaloney> I think the SSD is the only thing that's fast on my X120 laptop. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-03
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<jrwren> mourn
<rick_h_> mourn for your soul...for it is not yet friday
<jrwren> hahahaah.  oooh! this friday is the best one all year so far!
<cmaloney> what's happening this Drifay?
<jrwren> i'm on vaca the following week. no work for a while! ;)
<rick_h_> jrwren: doing anything away/fun?
<rick_h_> jrwren: or stay-cationing it up?
<rick_h_> jrwren: speaking of, wtf. How do you get so many date nights lately? Did you win free childcare for the year? :P
<jrwren> staying...
<jrwren> rick_h_: the kid is old. she spent a week with grandparents.
<jrwren> rick_h_: now she is at summer camp.
<rick_h_> jrwren: how old now?
<jrwren> 9yo
<jrwren> in a few yrs she'll be good to stay home alone. date night all the time! ;]
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> we were joking about needing to get our kid driving so he can pick us up from the bar
<jrwren> hahahaha
<jrwren> that beats calling an uber.
<rick_h_> "best wine tour evar!"
<rick_h_> well, not a ton of uber out here
<jrwren> yeah, I can imagine.
<jrwren> rick_h_: i took my kid to bfast at a cafe a couple weeks ago and it reminded me of the Baldwin Cafe. Ever go there?
<rick_h_> no, /me goes to look up
<jrwren> at the corner of baldwin and walden
<rick_h_> yea, just see it
<jrwren> it was the only place around when I was growing up.
<jrwren> My sister tells me it is now the setting of a TV show.
<cmaloney> really?
<jrwren> yeah, some indie show that airs at 3am.
<jrwren> cmaloney: google it, you will see.
<cmaloney> *eyeroll*
<cmaloney> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4900308/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-04
<Scary_Guy> so...  apcupsd or nut?  I haven't really played with either
<Scary_Guy> I'm leaning toward nut since they have an actual website and not just a blog with releases
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: I use pwrstatd from powerpanel pkg
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: I have a cyberpower ups, so I use their pkg. it works *shrug*  ymmv
<Scary_Guy> thx
<cmaloney> afternoon. :)
<Scary_Guy> hey
<cmaloney> Are we having fun yet?
<jrwren> lol
<rick_h_> wheeeeee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-05
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> sleepy
<cmaloney> MOrning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<cmaloney> How goes?
<Scary_Guy> still fighting with nut, can't seem to make it connect but the ups might not be supported
<Scary_Guy> dad's got the same one, had the same issues with the windows version of nut
<Scary_Guy> the proprietary apc powerchute program runs fine though
<Scary_Guy> sorry not nut, apcupsd
<cmaloney> right
<cmaloney> I got it working once
<cmaloney> You might have to do some user perms with USB and apcuspd
<cmaloney> I don't recall if it runs as root
<Scary_Guy> no, the windows box was apcupsd, mine is nut.  also nut can run as its own user
<Scary_Guy> they also recommend strong security since someone could send a shutdown command through it
<cmaloney> brousch: pygame is getting a new release. ;)
<brousch> What year is this?
<shakes808> anyone know C# ASP.NET?
<jrwren> not anymore.
<shakes808> :|
<shakes808> damn
<jrwren> that knowledge has long left my brain.
<jrwren> why?
<shakes808> haha
<shakes808> I am having an issue
<shakes808> "Parser Error Message: Only Content controls are allowed directly in a content page that contains Content controls."
<shakes808> site.master and the child page look good
<shakes808> but get that with the code being
<shakes808> Line 1:
<shakes808> Line 2:
<shakes808> Source File: /Default.aspx Line: 1
<shakes808> :|
<shakes808> been trying to figure this out all day :( getting irritated.  No one here knows or gives me the same advice that I have found in StackOverflow... which isn't working
<shakes808> Figured someone in here is smarter than the average bear ;)
<jrwren> shakes808: pastebin the Default.aspx?
<jrwren> shakes808: also, ##csharp on this irc network is a wonderful place. Maybe  bit too chatty, but used to be full of good peeps.
<shakes808> I posted in there but nothing yet :(
<jrwren> shakes808: are you using visual studio? does the editor give any syntax errors?
<shakes808> http://pastebin.com/Tvj3sqKP
<shakes808> Yes VS 13
<jrwren> shakes808: all microsoft ;]
<jrwren> shakes808: err... CALL.
<shakes808> haha
<shakes808> can i do that?!
<jrwren> shakes808: is the master page doing something stupid like also wrapping in a content control?
<jrwren> shakes808: this is why people use ASP.NET/C#, right? because it is supported by giant corp and its paid for... yes... call them up!
<shakes808> http://pastebin.com/5Wjshyuj
<shakes808> site.master ^^^^
<cmaloney> brousch: It's a strange year.
<jrwren> shakes808: that commented out stuff in master looks weird. Is it actually committed to VCS that way?
<jrwren> shakes808: ya know its ok to delete code, you can always pull it out of history, right?  ;]
<shakes808> I took that out to try to see if it would work.  That is just some of the default stuff that loads in when creating a project.
<shakes808> After I got it to work I was going to clean that up
<jrwren> shakes808: can you hook up a debugger and get a stack trace?  i guess probably not becuase its on parse.
<shakes808> I put breakpoints in at every page_load.  it is happening after compile and before rendering.
<shakes808> only thing that I can see is the 500 server error because of the parse
<jrwren> shakes808: i've no idea. that is a cool problem. content control isn't getting confused by id=body on the div and changing the <asp:Content ID="bodyContent" to <div id=body and they are colliding, are they?
<shakes808> Shouldn't be.  that is default tags.
<shakes808> those*
<shakes808> I will mess with that and see if that changes anything
<jrwren> shakes808: delete line 2 so that <asp:Content> is immediately after <%@ Page ?
<shakes808> jrwren: same issue
<jrwren> i dunno, i'm grasping at straws.
<shakes808> thank you, but no change
<shakes808> haha
<shakes808> i know, i don't understand
<shakes808> shouldn't be this difficult
<shakes808> we should change our stack to node and python ;)
<shakes808> and/or
<cmaloney> http://www.peppercarrot.com/en/article379/episode-18-the-encounter <- I helped inspire this episode. ;)
<jrwren> shakes808: i dunno... asp.net is pretty sweet. sounds like something stupid getting in your way
<jrwren> shakes808: i just poked around MSDN... omg the docs for asp.net are TERRIBLE these days. They were much better 10yrs gao.
<cmaloney> That's suprising
<shakes808> jrwren: right?!  the csharp chat just responded.  "I don't see anything obviously wrong"   .... :| wouldn't be in there if it was something simple haha
<jrwren> shakes808: i still think it is something stupid, like <%-- isn't commenting or end commenting correctly or something.
<shakes808> alright, I will get rid of all that
<shakes808> :| nope... :(
<shakes808> jrwren: I guess I can try to remake it and see if I get a different result, but doubt it
<jrwren> shakes808: line endings?  dos v. unix style?
<shakes808> How do I check that in VS?
<jrwren> shakes808: encoding?  asci v. utf8 v.?
<jrwren> I dunno, know your editor :p
<shakes808> haha
<jrwren> if you copy and pasted something from somewhere, sometimes those can pull wrong line endings and paste tehm.
<jrwren> read your source in a hex editor? :]
<jrwren> i'm crazy enough to do that. I don't actually recommmend it.
<shakes808> in the site.master it has the charset.  Changed it to ASCII and ANSI and nothing has changed :( same error
<jrwren> does the UTF8 saved file have a BOM header?
<jrwren> maybe there are hidden null characters?
<jrwren> does the file XML parse?
<jrwren> it is well formatted XML?
<jrwren> maybe run through XML Lint
<shakes808> I can see if I can find anything in a HEX editor
<shakes808> I see this in front, but some special characters in front.  but i think that is the header of the file to denote the type of file?  It comes back like this when I copy it " using System.C "
<shakes808> looks like an i with two dots then  >> followed by upside down ?
<shakes808> Going to try to remake the project and add this stuff back in
<jrwren> what hex values?  if it is 3 bytes, 0xEF,0xBB,0xBF  its the BOM
<jrwren> adding stuff back in with copy and paste might just paste bad characters if it is bad characters causing the problem.
<shakes808> it is the first three char
<shakes808> alright, then I will retype it all out
<shakes808> jrwren: so I just got done typing most of my code back in.  it had to be something to do with copy and pasting the code.  :|  wasted a day on copy and paste .... WTF!!!!
<greg-g> welcome to computers
<shakes808> greg-g: HAHA :( ;(
<gamerchick02> bad time with computers right now?
<shakes808> gamerchick02: spent the day trying to figure out what was going on with my web app when it would seem it was a copy and paste issue.  started a new proj and typed all the files out and it is working ..... :| X{
<gamerchick02> oh ugh. that stuff happens.
<jrwren> shakes808: beware pasting.
<shakes808> haha
<jrwren> shakes808: Imma claim that I helped.
<shakes808> HAHA, well you did point me in that direction that copy and paste might be off.
<shakes808> too bad I didn't find this sooner
<shakes808>  :(
<gamerchick02> well you found it now.
<gamerchick02> i call that a success.
<shakes808> and the other issue is that we are using VB and C#.  If we weren't compiling all the time and changing references and whatever else we need to do, this could have been a non issue.  :)
<shakes808> nothing is consistent :|  Working on getting them there :)
<gamerchick02> ooof that's a big job. good luck
<shakes808> i know.  I am working on getting both of the dev teams in the same work flow right now and utilizing TFS a better way and a better release process... i have my work cut out for me.
<gamerchick02> you do. wow.
<shakes808> have a good weekend all
<gamerchick02> you too!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-06
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-07
<cmaloney> Morning
<Scary_Guy> hi
<cmaloney> How's the day?
<Scary_Guy> could use more sleep, that's not happening
<Scary_Guy> other than that okay
<cmaloney> Good to hear
<cmaloney> re: the OK part, not the unrequited sleep part
<Scary_Guy> heh, figured
<Scary_Guy> also, finished Stranger Things on Netflix.  it was pretty much the Goonies miniseries I always wanted, minus a few other charachters
<cmaloney> Cool
<cmaloney> I haven't seen that yet but have yet to hear anyone say horrible things about it.
<Scary_Guy> soundtrack was awesome too
<cmaloney> Cool. Will have to check it out. :)
<cmaloney> BTW: There's the monthly meeting tonight if anyone is interested.
<cmaloney> I don't think there's anything on the schedule per-se, but if anyone has something they'd like to bring up please feel free.
<jrwren> wait... Scary_Guy soundtrack was awesome?!?!
<Scary_Guy> yup, anything that wasn't early 80's was something that you would probably hear on r/outrun
<jrwren> r/outrun, that one is new to me.
 * jrwren looks
<jrwren> cmaloney: you are my ting expert. GSM or CDMA?
<jrwren> we've been in ATT for many years, so I'm thinking i'll pick GSM and guess I'll get the same coverage.
<jrwren> ordered GSM ting sims. should be good for saving ~$40/mo
<cmaloney> GSM
<cmaloney> CDMA is Sprint, and I think you're more likely to travel outside of the USA
<cmaloney> the GSM is T-Mobile (That's an open secret)
<jrwren> cmaloney: thanks!
<cmaloney> np
<cscheib> one thing I don't like about MVNOs is they don't get some of the cooler features, like LTE calling
<jrwren> what is MVNOs?
<cscheib> mobile virtual network operators
<cscheib> they didn't do LTE or wifi calling last I knew, which is important for me, where I get no reception regardless of carrier
<jrwren> oh damn.
<jrwren> where do you get no reception?
<cscheib> Grosse Pointe
<cscheib> there are no towers along the water... generally pick up Canadian towers
<jrwren> oh, damn
<jrwren> i didn't realize you were so close to the water.
<jrwren> or that GP lacked signal.
<cscheib> about half mile
<cscheib> GP residents won't let them build towers
<jrwren> I'd have thought all them GP allowance mom's would be phone junkies and complain about lack of service
<cscheib> which usually isn't a problem
<cscheib> neighboring town towers would usually pick up the slack... but the neighboring town is the lake, and Canada
<jrwren> well, detroit
<jrwren> harperwoods
<jrwren> the shores.
<cscheib> which is where the signal I *do* get comes from
<jrwren> color me surprised.
<cscheib> you doing devopsdays?
<jrwren> i was going to... I need to follow up.
<cmaloney> I think Ting will allow you to do wifi calling
<cmaloney> https://help.ting.com/hc/en-us/articles/205421918-FAQ-Wi-Fi-Calling-on-GSM-Devices
<cmaloney> I just turned it on for my phone
<cmaloney> https://help.ting.com/hc/en-us/articles/205421898-Android-Wi-Fi-Calling-Setup-GSM-Only-
<jrwren> \m/
<jrwren> thanks cmaloney
<jrwren> that will be useful
<cmaloney> Yeah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-31
<cmaloney> ?
<jrwren> Rick and Morty
<cmaloney> Cool? :)
<rick_h> morning, post-conference recovery day
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> Good Morning.
<cmaloney> rick_h: I have yet to receive an email to proof your video. :(
<rick_h> cmaloney: k, did you out me down for yours?
<rick_h> cmaloney: figure it'll get up when it does.
<cmaloney> Well, funny story
<cmaloney> So initially Carl asked around for speakers to review videos
<cmaloney> or rather for them to submit people to review videos
<cmaloney> and I said "hell, I'll just review my own video"
<cmaloney> Well, that wasn't good enough. Had to be someone outside of the conference.
<cmaloney> So I said "fsck" and posted to Twitter
<cmaloney> one of the folks from Sourceforge volunteered
<cmaloney> and I said "Cool! Here's an email!"
<cmaloney> and then Carl tried to forward his GMail to me so I could coordinate putting email addresses into the PyOhio system
<cmaloney> I said "Um, WTF?" (paraphrased)
<cmaloney> Eventually it got sorted where folks could put in their own reviewer email addresses (after some back-and-forth)
<cmaloney> so I noticed that I was your reviewer
<rick_h> lol, I put you down figuring we'd just review each other's videos
<cmaloney> Yeah, no worries. :)
<cmaloney> But naturally the intentions of having a video to review during the conference seem to have met the reality that video is hard.
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> cmaloney: George started drum camp today. I think they started him with a slow blast beat
<rick_h> Ruh roh
<rick_h> You sir, are a better father than I. When Michael went in to try instruments I took drum off the list of valid options
<brousch> We'll he already has a drum set, now he's learning to use it properly
<brousch> We generally listen from a different floor of the house
<cmaloney> brousch: Nice!
<cmaloney> rick_h: But drums are awesome, especially the more he learns
<cmaloney> I chose drums specifically because I thought it would drive my parents nuts
<cmaloney> turns out they were OK with it and I liked playing drums more than most instruments
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-01
<rick_h> Famous cmaloney https://youtu.be/BixeKmlKOJc
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> Thank you. :)
<Scary_Guy> anyone use MPD?  I'm having issues getting it to read the synlinks in the music directory.  Doesn't matter if I put them in ~/Music or /var/lib/mpd/music with very liberal file permissions
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<cmaloney> rick_h: Watching your video now
<rick_h> cmaloney: cool ty I'm 15min in so 6 more to go
<rick_h> seems ok so far. Wish they had turned down the exp comp on the camera a little bit but meh, I'm angelic with my white background
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> You're next to a sunny window, so ...
<cmaloney> Also: you are angelic. ;)
<cmaloney> Wish they would have figured out the zoom a few moments before you started
<rick_h> yea, all good
<rick_h> cmaloney: seems ok here. woot woot
<rick_h> cmaloney: ty for reviewing!
<cmaloney> Same.
<rick_h> so nice, cmaloney has to hear it twice :P
<cmaloney> NP. It's importnat stuff
<cmaloney> Plus I can sit for this time around. ;)
<rick_h> oh noes, did you end sans seat last time?
<cmaloney> I stood in the hallway
<cmaloney> 's all good. :)
<rick_h> just need to bring a seat with you, say on wheels :P
<cmaloney> Heh. Seems a pretty high barrier to entry
<rick_h> lol, have to commit
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I watched the Archive.org version of the video
<rick_h> oh, there's an archive.org version? That's crazy.
<cmaloney> https://archive.org/details/pyohio_2017-You_have_an_API_now_what_Client_time
<cmaloney> yeah, so you don't have to use youtube-dl to save a copy for posterity
<brousch> Surely youtube will outlive us all
<rick_h> heh...it's a google product so ... nope
<jrwren> truth, if anyone could fuck it up, it would be google.
<jrwren> they fuck EVERYTHING up... eventually.
<jrwren> cmaloney: pdb++ looks cool I've never seen that.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Thank you. It's pretty awesome.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Anotherr reason I didn't show the install of pdb++ is whenever I create a new virtualenv it's one of the packages I install
<jrwren> anyone aware of a colorize replacement that isn't ccze?
<cmaloney> https://trello.com/b/FNxnn9mt/michigan-usr-group-topics-speakers
<cmaloney> Would some folks check this out and see if this makes sense?
<cmaloney> Also: if you know someone who would be willng to speak about a topic please feel free to comment on the topic card.
<brousch> cmaloney: Very nice. I might have to replicate that for GRPUG
<cmaloney> Thanks! :)
<jrwren> beginning of the next dotbust  https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/31/end_of_the_road_for_basho_as_court_puts_biz_into_receivership/
<greg-g> yay, maybe I'll be able to afford a house out here?!
<jrwren> probably not
<greg-g> :P
<cmaloney> Not as long as there's Facebook and Google
<cmaloney> that's a hard langscape
<jrwren> and intel, and *
<greg-g> we're actually looking over in Nevada City, CA now, which is on I-80 on the way to Truckee (the north side of Lake Tahoe). It's in the Sierra foothills.
<jrwren> whoa, that is way out there.
<jrwren> or no? 2 hrs if there isn't traffic?
<greg-g> not horrible, yeah, and I've been to the office twice since new year's. All Hands in January, and today to pick up my replacement laptop
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-02
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink__> yo
<jrwren> Good Morning
<brousch> yes
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<brousch> Not bad
<brousch> George is loving it because we have a retropi set up at work. So he comes in with me for an hour, plays old Nintendo games, then goes to drum camp
<rick_h> surgery schedule...so yay? ugh
<rick_h> lol
<brousch> Good luck rick_h
<jrwren> knee is worse today, somehow, after a couple good days.
<jrwren> and... nothing works... so its a day.
<rick_h> ty, have to wait a couple more weeks...but a plan. I like a plan
<rick_h> doh
<rick_h> sucky jrwren
<rick_h> on both accounts
<brousch> Cut it off, go cybernetic
<jrwren> NEVAR
<rick_h> hah, there you go
<jrwren> nevar gonna chip me either.
<cmaloney> rick_h: When is your surgery scheduled? Or have they narrowed it to "this week this happens"
<rick_h> cmaloney: 17th
<rick_h> cmaloney: going to steal parts of my hamstring to make me a new ACL and then recover
<cmaloney> Are they keeping you overnight or are they shipping you out afterward?
<rick_h> shipping out afterwards
<cmaloney> Jeez
<rick_h> will be in the morning and hopefully home by late afternoon
<rick_h> then taking a week off to take meds and stay hooked up to the cooling machine
<cmaloney> wow
<cmaloney> Sending good thoughts. LMK if you want a local CHC visit. :)
<cmaloney> Hacking on pain meds should be awesome. :)
<jrwren> rick_h: oh sheesh, you are getting ACL surgery. YOW.
<jrwren> a coworker was on some opiods last week. it sounded funny.
<rick_h> hah
<rick_h> yea, I know when I had my shoulder done I was a bit trippy that first day
<rick_h> my wife loved it laughing all the way
<rick_h> mainly it's just the lack of ability to concentrate being cranky and such in recovery. I think on my shoulder I was off the big meds by the 3rd day
<jrwren> my team at work!  https://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/6r566q/infectious_a_fast_reedsolomon_library_using/
<jrwren> i didn't know we open sourced that.
<Scary_Guy> There are runners who have lost legs and cut off the other one for a matching pair that work better
<Scary_Guy> I like being able to feel the ground beneath my feet but I guess I could get used to it if I had to
<jrwren> have you lost a leg or foot or toe?
<Scary_Guy> no, but my left foot acts up so much I contemplate cutting it off on the regular
<Scary_Guy> not that I will, but it would be nice to have a working foot that doesn't pop every 10 minutes when I move it up/down and again when I move it left
<jrwren> painful?
<rick_h> my FIL had his amputated. Had fused bones and such in his ankle
<rick_h> it didn't work out so amazingly that I'd wish to do it :/
<Scary_Guy> not painful yet, just annoying.  I'm sure when I get older I'll want to start cutting things off
<jrwren> i like all my parts and I want to keep them as long as possible
<Scary_Guy> if they can make a better part, I'll go with the better part
<greg-g> those better parts usually have a shorter life span. Like my dad's new knees, they only last 15(?) years
<Scary_Guy> but there has to be a brain interface for touch and pressure too ideally
<Scary_Guy> New parts every 15 is better than no new parts
<rick_h> folks heard of DUO out of ann arbor? I feel like I've heard of them somewhere
<greg-g> Dug Song!
<jrwren> rick_h: yes, absolutely one of the best companies in AA
<jrwren> rick_h: why do you ask?
<rick_h> A recruiter from there reached out to me on LinkedIn
<rick_h> And it hit a big familiar tone but I couldn't place it
<rick_h> That would explain it
<rick_h> Been a while since I ran into Dug at anything.
<jrwren> he is busy running a growing company.
<Scary_Guy> 30 seconds on google and I had the about page in front of me
<Scary_Guy> but I guess it makes a lot of sense to ask here too
<jrwren> I think rick_h was looking for more of the insider info, not the intarwebs info
<rick_h> Yea, just knew I heard about it more personally
<rick_h> Like "I know this locally for some reason" but could recall.
<Scary_Guy> I would hope it was local.  most people don't want to move for a job if they can help it
<rick_h> Lol, a bit different but yea
<Scary_Guy> ooh, looks like rain.  it's all dark out
<Scary_Guy> could use a good cooloff
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<Scary_Guy> yo
<cmaloney> how's the day so far?
<Scary_Guy> rainy I hope?
<Scary_Guy> tweaking audacious as a second player, and set up musicbrains picard again
<Scary_Guy> I like that audacious can use winamp skins as they remind me of my youth
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> *mispent youth
<greg-g> ;)
<Scary_Guy> haha, truth
<greg-g> miss spent?
<greg-g> whatever
<jrwren> starting to hate k8s.
<jrwren> error messages like: error: error converting YAML to JSON: yaml: line 61: mapping values are not allowed in this context
<jrwren> ARE NOT USEFUL
<Scary_Guy> misspent I think works
<jrwren> Miss Pent sounds like a bad roller derby girl name.
<Scary_Guy> I've got aspell on this so I don't look like a completely uneducated moron and it doesn't turn red
<Scary_Guy> I like Peggy Suicide
<greg-g> jrwren: :) :)
<Scary_Guy> okay, now it's super dark out.  I hope the storm isn't too bad.
<cmaloney> Same
<jrwren> hey, my team is on the front page of hackernews. :)
<jrwren> item #13 right now - Introduction to Reed-Solomon and Berlekamp-Welch (with Go Library) (vivint.com)
<cmaloney> <3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-03
<wolfger> jrwren: I disagree. Miss Pent sounds like an awesome roller derby girl name.
<wolfger> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<Scary_Guy> morning
<jrwren>  I just poked a hole in the ceiling and bees started flooding in. It was a fun morning
<rick_h> sounds like it
<Scary_Guy> did you call a beekeeper for removal?
<cmaloney> jrwren: I've been following your escapades
<cmaloney> yellowjackets are wasps, btw
<cmaloney> which means they made a nest in your roof
<Scary_Guy> yellowjackets are bastards, kill with fire.  I don't think the planet will miss them much
<Scary_Guy> if they made honey or pollinated things that would be different
<jrwren> oh, they are wasps? ok. thanks.
<jrwren> I've killed many, and I have more to kill yet, AFAIK.
<Scary_Guy> https://i.imgur.com/QtGOlqG.jpg
<jrwren> needs a "kill the damn thing" added to it
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKd0So_d4GA
<Scary_Guy> Is there a law like Poe's law that states the greater the act of bravery the more indistinguishable it is from stupidity?
<Scary_Guy> If not I'm coining that right now
<wolfger> jrwren: you have an odd idea of "fun"
<jrwren> I've been told that before.
<brousch> jrwren: Yikes, that is scary
<brousch> Why did you poke a hole in the ceiling?
<greg-g> good question
<jrwren> there was a crack. My wife said we had to get whatever was on the other side of it out of there.
<jrwren> She was convinced it was a small mammel
<jrwren> mammal?  how is that spelled?
<rick_h> mammal
<jrwren> ty
<brousch> ma'aml
<brousch> Ah, so you heard scratching or something
<greg-g> and then poked the ef out of it :)
<greg-g> always wise :P
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-04
<cmaloney> Good morning
<notlikethesoup> hi
<jrwren> Good Morning, how is everyone today?
<notlikethesoup> not too bad, working through an android dev course
<notlikethesoup> as has been my life for a week or so
<jrwren> kotlin or jabab?
<notlikethesoup> uh
<notlikethesoup> neither, like an introductory course
<notlikethesoup> i know kotlin is some newer thing. or at least i thought
<jrwren> I meant java by "jabba".
<notlikethesoup> oh, ha
<notlikethesoup> java, yeah
<notlikethesoup> i was wondering what on earth "jabab" was
<notlikethesoup> lol
<notlikethesoup> but yeah juts really basic stuff
<notlikethesoup> it's a lot to learn at once
<jrwren> i can imagine if you don't have much programming experience it can be overwhelming
<notlikethesoup> well, i've doing programming of some degree for a couple of years, i just still think of myself as... very new and inexperienced
<notlikethesoup> i guess since fall 2014ish
<notlikethesoup> is when i started going to school full time
<jrwren> not 30yrs like cmaloney and me. :p
<notlikethesoup> ha, definitely not
<cmaloney> 30?
<cmaloney> Gah, more like 35ish
<cmaloney> if you count all those BASIC programs
<cmaloney> I'm going to go feel old now. Anyone want to join me?
<notlikethesoup> oh god
<notlikethesoup> in a programming logic class we used basic
<notlikethesoup> or maybe it was justbasic
<jrwren> cmaloney: same here... well.. 34ish :)
<notlikethesoup> that word sticks out
<cmaloney> possibly
<cmaloney> BASIC was a good point to teach boolean logic and basic algebra concepts
<cmaloney> not great for teaching larger programming concepts like functions and local variable scope
<cmaloney> Oh, and it was great for teaching that if you wanted any kind of performance you really needed to get to machine code sooner than later. ;)
<jrwren> especially on those old 80s machines
<jrwren> but then, these days, javascript updating an html dom teaches the same performance lessons :p
<rick_h> writes are expensive :)
<rick_h> a very different form
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> I fear for folks who learn JavaScript as their first programming language
<cmaloney> and I know hundreds of people are in that boat
<cmaloney> On the one hand: functional programming
<cmaloney> on the other hand: '1' + NaN == '1NaN'
<notlikethesoup> it was java for me
<notlikethesoup> then that justbasic class, then back to java
<Zimdale> lol
<notlikethesoup> then c#
<Zimdale> #stillbetterthanphp
<cmaloney> Java is OK. I don't think anyone has ever finished typing in a Java program
<notlikethesoup> i feel like java and c# are like the "standard" languages
<notlikethesoup> no curveballs or weird things that i can think of at a beginner level
<cmaloney> public static void class FinishedProgramGetter() {
<notlikethesoup> just a normal programming language
<notlikethesoup> then i discovered the beautify of python and the horrors of c
<cmaloney> C is a standard language for me
<cmaloney> it's the standard by which other languages should be judged
<notlikethesoup> i just can't do the low-level stuff
<notlikethesoup> yes it's stupidly fast
<cmaloney> If you can be as clear and concise as C then you get a pass
<notlikethesoup> but having to worry about allocating memory and freeing it and dealing with arrays of characters as opposed to strings
<cmaloney> if you can be as terse as C then you may pass
<notlikethesoup> 3 classes of it was enough
<notlikethesoup> i learned a lot from it for sure
<cmaloney> Yeah, but you learned some valuable skills of how the computer works
<notlikethesoup> exactly
<cmaloney> because computer don't care. ;)
<cmaloney> it's a list? It's an atom? It's a vector? Computer don't care.
<cmaloney> It's all locations in memory
<notlikethesoup> right
<cmaloney> just as long as it doesn't touch protected memory or some arbitrary location that the OS deemed out-of-bounds...
<notlikethesoup> it just wants to know how you want to interpret it
<cmaloney> ayep
<jrwren> java and C# are certainly the standard languages at a corporate level.
<jrwren> yeah, C rules like that.
<notlikethesoup> python is my one true love though
<notlikethesoup> python is what made me *enjoy* programming
<jrwren> python still does for me.  And go too.
<jrwren> now that I'm not at Canonical :p
<notlikethesoup> you were at canonical?
<notlikethesoup> neat
<notlikethesoup> i always kinda wondered how canonical works as a business since they make free, open source software
<notlikethesoup> like how they're funded
<jrwren> well, go to canonical.com and see the list of customers.
<cmaloney> Python is really where I understood and loved OO programming
<jrwren> they do some ubuntu support, but I think most of hte income comes from cloud, whether it is ubuntu instances running on public cloud or a company paying canonical to build and run a private internal cloud.
<notlikethesoup> huh, neat
<jrwren> lots of canonical and ex-canonical employees in this channel.
<jrwren> huh, when did jcastro leave?
<jrwren> used to be more of us. :(
<notlikethesoup> ooh, gross
<notlikethesoup> http://imgur.com/a/F8o2t
<notlikethesoup> that is rather hard to read, canonical
<notlikethesoup> it formats great up to a certain browser width
<cmaloney> jrwren: I think when he went to Heptio he darted off
<cmaloney> something something too good for us
<cmaloney> or likely wanted to disassociate with Ubuntu
<cmaloney> Not that I blame him one iota
<jrwren> well, if he really isn't using ubuntu anymore, I guess it makes sense, but if he is, i find it sad that he'd leave the local community.
<cmaloney> I'm pretty sure it's part burnout, part disassociation
<cmaloney> Sometimes the best you can do is wish someone well
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/loco-council/verified/
<cmaloney> There's four verified loco teams in the USA
<cmaloney> It looks like even Ohio gave up
<cmaloney> Christ, it looks like the discourse forums went moribund
<cmaloney> and yet ubuntuforums.org still lives
<notlikethesoup> <cmaloney> Sometimes the best you can do is wish someone well
<notlikethesoup> good advice
<notlikethesoup> sad, but true
<cmaloney> Sadly I've been getting a lot of practice in this
<cmaloney> O'Reilly books for one.
<jrwren> and I do wish him well.
<cmaloney> Same.
<cmaloney> Unrelated: I think this is the worst time for Canonical to do an IPO
<cmaloney> but I wish them well
<cmaloney> And considering how well I've been with predicting the future maybe they know something I don't.
<cmaloney> I mean, I bought a 3DO and waited patiently for the M2 to manifest itself
<cmaloney> if I'm betting on a horse your odds improve greatly by not betting on same horse. ;)
<jrwren> they won't be doing it now.
<jrwren> it will be at least a year.
<jrwren> they have to get profitable. layoffs and cutting phone was the first step to that.
<cmaloney> I mean their community mindhsare is in the toilet
<cmaloney> best time to do this would have been 2011
<jrwren> investors don't care about community mindshare, they care about revenue and growth.
<jrwren> canonical hasn't been a community company in a VERY long time AFAICT
<cmaloney> So noted.
<greg-g> jrwren: agreed with your last statement (I haven't read scrollback, don't know context)
<jrwren> I really hope the Ubuntu technical board and Community Council can drive more of ubuntu, but ubuntu isn't structured that way.
<jrwren> in fact, I don't believe that ubuntu is operated the way they claim. I don't believe the Technical Board actually functions in decision making.
<greg-g> they didn't when I was on the Membership Review Board
<greg-g> (same time Mako was on the Community Council)
<jrwren> everyone on the board is employed by canonical which means they are all yes men (and yes, they are all men) to sabdfl.
<cmaloney> That's handy
<jrwren> if it were an honest functioning tech board, you'd never have had initiatives like MIR by default.
<jrwren> hell, I dont think you'd have had unity at all.
<greg-g> jrwren++
<cmaloney> you might have had Unity
<cmaloney> Unity was a compelling story
<cmaloney> but yeah, MIR was a mistake
 * greg-g thinks about parallels with WMF
<greg-g> our Tech Committee is all WMF employees (minus one Wikimedia Germany employee) but our CTO: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Technical_Committee
<cmaloney> I don't think you could have had an elevator conversation with anyone about MIR and come out of there sold.
<greg-g> s/but/and/
<cmaloney> Thing is I don't blame companies for stacking their community and governance; it helps keep the vision of the founders alive
<jrwren> The really disappointing thing to me is the things that ubuntu really excels at, that one loses if they use debian instead. Things like cloud optimized kernels. Things like cloud-init.
<jrwren> I was surprised to find debian doesn't use cloud-init by default.
<cmaloney> but if the foundation / community is pretty much beholden to the BDFL then it's not a community
<jrwren> its not a huge deal, and was pretty easy to use just a script, but it is still kind of a shame IMO
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ubuntu reminds me a lot of Apple
<cmaloney> there's a lot of good taste in there
<cmaloney> sane defaults
<cmaloney> the problem is SABDFL took a few too many pages from Steve Jobs
<cmaloney> which is great if you're running Apple, but not great if you're running a transparent org
<jrwren> I don't know if I agree with that.
<jrwren> I don't know if I disagree either. :)
<cmaloney> He's always stuck me as someone who wants to be Steve Jobs
<jrwren> ah, not me. He is his own man. I feel like once you get passed 50 or 100million in net worth, not much matters and he is far passed that, so if he wanted to be Jobs he'd be attacking consumer market, because that is to whom Apple has always sold, primarily, but he has never targetted that market.
<greg-g> the steve jobs of the business market, I guess ;)
<jrwren> sooo.... Bill Gates?
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> touche
<cmaloney> Well, he's not quite Ellison asshole levels
<cmaloney> (at least I don't think so)
<cmaloney> Maybe someone could correct me on that. ;)
<greg-g> Honestly, I don't know many people who can build businesses of that size and not be assholes
<greg-g> I think it's part of being an egotistical CEO (but I repeat myself)
<cmaloney> Chiefly Egotistical Operation
<cmaloney> God I love intermittent sound issues.
<greg-g> alsa/pulse stuff?
<cmaloney> worse: pulse + squeezelite
<cmaloney> can't pinpoint when it happens
<cmaloney> but every now and again it'll just go for a toss
<cmaloney> Trying to explain what's going on is also fun
<greg-g> sound on linux == dark magic to me
<greg-g> pretty much sound on anything other than a record player is dark magic to me
<cmaloney> even better: it seems like some interaction between it and Chrome
<greg-g> and even that barely passes the "is this magic?" test
<cmaloney> so trying to figure out what's happening outside of chicken entrails and a core developer is pretty much impossible
<cmaloney> Oh record grooves are magic to me
<cmaloney> I know conceptually what's going on and I still find it magical
<cmaloney> stereo from a record groove? Magic.
<cmaloney> http://www.vinylrecorder.com/stereo.html
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu0zP5s_PSo
<jrwren> you think a stereo record grove is magical, try and imagine quadrophonic.
<jrwren> I still find quadrophonic records to be unbelievable.
<jrwren> Hell, stereo is unbelievable to me.
<cmaloney> iirc quadrophonic is just signals at 20K+ phase-shifted
<jrwren> don't ruin the magic for me!
<cmaloney> Stereo Ortohophonic Victrolas
<cmaloney> Orthophonic Hi-Fidelity
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Funnily enough, if you Google "Orthophonic" you get someone saying "That's bullshit!" ;)
<cmaloney> (Actually it's a marketing term for their cutting process)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-05
<Scary_Guy> anyone know where I can find a list of keyboard/mouse input codes?  (ex: 314=f2, p150994944=some mouse function I haven't figured out
<Scary_Guy> nvm, apparently it's a bit platform independent through the curses library
<Scary_Guy> /
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-30
<cmaloney> Howdy
<cmaloney> Just got back to MI / home
<jrwren> welcome back
<havenstance> welcome back cmaloney
<cmaloney> Thank you. :)
<havenstance> jrwren, in response to your comment from last night, I ended up adding darkstat for the time being to show the hosts, and using ntopng for the basic graphs, not that the free edition really shows a whole lot, I'll likely just end up purchasing an Enterprise license because I really enjoyed the ntopng enterprise edition features. I tried everything I could find yesterday and ended up removing everything I tried as I
<havenstance> couldn't find a solution that would offer what that 10 minute trial of ntopng showed me it was capable of doing lol
<havenstance> unfortunately living in a hotel I need something on the server that can catch intrusion attempts and monitoring the interface traffic just during that 10 min trial I found other machines in the building trying to access the server
<cmaloney> The only thing I can think of is something like wireshark and fail2ban for stopping invalid attempts
<havenstance> cmaloney, I have Zentyal server running, I just setup the Intrusion Prevention rules which I had not had before. The only thing is I think my plex server may be showing up on the external nic and I'm not sure how to force bind it to a particular adapter, something I'm gonna have to fight with eventually tho
<havenstance> still a linux noob but I'm incorporating it more and more into everyday use, even started writing debian scripts for my buddy and his shoutcast stuff, jr helped with that too lol
<havenstance> the issue I had with wireshark was I couldn't leave it up 24/7 without getting the error drive is full message lol
<cmaloney> Yeah, Wireshark is really verbose
<havenstance> everything I tried other than what I ultimately grabbed to fill in until I get the enterprise for ntopng was either stupidly overkill or cost thousands of dollars and wasn't worth it in my opinion
<havenstance> I haven't played with Wireshark in years, but I recall having it installed somewhere aroung ubuntu 12.04 lts and I recalled that drive is full error and I didn't feel like tearing my hair out
<havenstance> this IPS appears to be doing something good, loaded it up an hour ago and so far have 5 pages of blocked and logged messages lol so obviously it's doing it's job
<Scary_Guy> mornning
<rick_h_> party
<Scary_Guy> no, I feel like Slurms McKenzie (sp?)
<Scary_Guy> also the family dog got put down Saturday evening due to severe arthritis
<Scary_Guy> so, not exactly in a party mood.  hope you guys are doing better
<Scary_Guy> than I am*
<rick_h_> definitely :( on the pup for sure
<Scary_Guy> well, it's not like it was the first dog we've ever had.   I think he was the 6th, but it doesn't make it any easier.  anyway thanks
<widox> morning
<widox> sorry to hear Scary_Guy. lost our dog in the spring, def :(
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: Sorry to hear that
<rick_h_> cmaloney: morning, looks like PyOhio went awesome?
<brousch> Even without rick_h_
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, it was really nice
<cmaloney> really crowded in the rooms
<cmaloney> had to nope out of a few rooms because of overcrowding
<brousch> It seemed like less of a problem than previous years, to me
<cmaloney> might be the topics you went to
<cmaloney> but yeah, we missed you rick_h_
<cmaloney> how are you feeling?
<brousch> I was session chair in half the talks I went to. We get a special seat up front
<rick_h_> cmaloney: better on the dizzy front
<rick_h_> cmaloney: I've done 3+hr of work today so yay
<rick_h_> brousch: ooooh
<rick_h_> seats up front ftw
<rick_h_> I did manage to stress fracture my foot though so yay walking boots
<dzho> yikes
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Ugh
<cmaloney> stop falling apart!
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, I should try that heh
<jrwren> greg-g: you work with this guy?  https://brionv.com/log/2016/06/14/exploring-vp9-as-a-progressive-still-image-codec/  This is great. Did it ever get rolled out?
<greg-g> Yeah, he was employee number 1 ;)
<greg-g> And I'm not sure... Looking
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-31
<Scary_Guy> thanks guys
<Scary_Guy> on the side of good news my footswitch came, no more emacs pinky!
<waldo323> good morning
<notlikethesoup> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<notlikethesoup> wrestling with a bug that i spent 8 hours on yesterday and didn't fix, so
<notlikethesoup> could be better
<notlikethesoup> you?
<cmaloney> Trying to sort out Django urlconf and having fun.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-01
<theWhisper_21> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<theWhisper_21> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<theWhisper_21> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<theWhisper_21> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
<sirnaysayer4> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<sirnaysayer4> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<sirnaysayer4> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<sirnaysayer4> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
<high_fiver> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<high_fiver> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<high_fiver> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<high_fiver> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
<cmaloney> Does someone have ops?
<jrwren> who registered this channel?
<cmaloney> I think greg-g did?
<Scary_Guy> wish I knew some hackers so that site could get DDOS'ed.  I'm sure eventually they'll spam the wrong channel though
<_stink_> that stuff has been on chatspike recently too
<matze10> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<matze10> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<matze10> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<By> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<By> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<Scary_Guy> greg-g can you set this to +r please?   or set cmaloney up with ops?
<vamiry> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<vamiry> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<vamiry> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<vamiry> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
<jeggott29> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<andries8> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<andries8> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<andries8> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<andries8> A fascinating blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/
<Netham4519> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<vok`> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<vok`> I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/
<vok`> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate
<betawaffle24> With our IRC ad service you can reach a global audience of entrepreneurs and fentanyl addicts with extraordinary engagement rates! https://williampitcock.com/
<greg-g> Scary_Guy: done
<_stink_> greg-g++++
<cmaloney> Gratzie
<Scary_Guy> TY fearless leader
<Scary_Guy> morning
<waldo323> good morning
<waldo323> just saw the news blurb that blue microphones is being acquired by logitech
<cmaloney> Yay.
<cmaloney> I'll get the pistols
 * cmaloney is a little salty of how they mishandled the Squeezebox
<cmaloney> And UE is now just a silly branding of lesser equipment
<mrgoodcat> hello
<jrwren> how does one set themselves to +R ?
<waldo323> : /mode waldo323 +R
<waldo323> (without the colon and space)
<waldo323> do we have an operator for this channel?
 * greg-g raises hand
<jrwren> thanks waldo323
<waldo323> jrwren, you are welcome
 * waldo323 waves at greg-g 
<mrgoodcat> what does +R do?
<greg-g> for the channel it limits joining to only those with registered accounts, for your user account it only allows registered accounts to PM you
<mrgoodcat> oh cool
<mrgoodcat> for anyone interested the company I work for is hosting a conference at ford field this fall https://devone.us
<mrgoodcat> the speaker list on the site isn't completely finished, we're still trying to get a couple more people
<jrwren> wow Vectorform is still around and doing conferences. cool.
<mrgoodcat> did you work there before?
<jrwren> no. I met a guy from there once. They were doing cool stuff at the time.
<mrgoodcat> yea they still are. my coworkers twin works there
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-02
<jrwren> wow!  https://lubuntu.me/taking-a-new-direction/  this is cool.
<Scary_Guy> old hardware to me is Pentium III.  Bonus points for 486 and older
<Scary_Guy> My computer is 10 years old and runs modern Linux versions just fine.  I don't know about modern gaming but it does alright with a nice videocard plopped into it
<Scary_Guy> AMD Phenom 2 x4, 4GB ECC RAM, and an ATI 5770 HD card
<Scary_Guy> I mean I can eat up more resources with Cinnamon or something but I prefer the svelte i3wm
<jrwren> P3 is 20yrs old isn't it?  Pentium in '95, P2 in '96, P3 in 97?
<cmaloney> I think that's correct
<cmaloney> It's definitely in the retro computing category
<greg-g> I loved those P3's that were slot mounted
<cmaloney> Yeah, those were awesome
<cmaloney> I had a P2 that was slot mounted. I wish they'd return to that form-factor
<cmaloney> but in the days of counting picoseconds down a wire I think that's unlikely
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-03
<waldo323> good afternoon
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> howdy
<greg-g> Alive
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-04
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsRwQIuTNmE
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-29
<Scary_Guy> "good, used, easy to maintain" pick any two
<cmaloney> morning
<zarozombie> morning
<zarozombie> is it monday again?....
<jrwren> wish it were sunday
<greg-g> just another manic monday
<jrwren> cuz that's my fun day
<jrwren> i only somewhat recently learned that song was written by Prince.
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> Ayep
<cmaloney> Also: woo woo PyOhio was great
<cmaloney> did my talk on The Mediocre Programmer
<cmaloney> looking forward to sharing the recording
<jrwren> awesome! congrats.
<waldo323> it wasn't mediocre either
<waldo323> it was well done
<cmaloney> Thank you. :)
<cmaloney> https://www.windy.com/42.531/-83.133?radar,41.823,-81.961,8,m:eP2adQB <- rick_h
<jrwren> wow, that map is beautiful
<jrwren> very hard to tell when it will get here when it is coming at that angle
<cmaloney> Yeah, Windy is really good for visualizing
<cmaloney> darksky.net is also quite nice
<rick_h> cmaloney:  what am I looking at?
<rick_h> cmaloney:  you're in the hole in the storm?
<cmaloney> Nah, was just saying that you were going to get some rain
<cmaloney> that's all
<cmaloney> https://grayareafestival.io/performances/ <- this seems like a great way to get a broken arm
 * rick_h is in toronto and waves at the rain
<rick_h> I think it's coming through later though I guess
<cmaloney> rick_h: What the heck are you doing in Toronto? :)
<rick_h> work sprint
<cmaloney> Get back to where I expect you to be, dammit
<rick_h> went out to collingwood for mountainbiking over the weekend and now in toronto for work
<cmaloney> none of this messing around with work thingies
<rick_h> nice to have sprints I can drive to!
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> Heck, if you're really frisky you could drive back home
<rick_h> come friday maybe
<rick_h> or saturday
<cmaloney> https://www.fediverse.space/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-30
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: how was collingwood? I assume you were riding blue mountian?
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  yea, loved it. Solid stuff.
<rick_h> mrgoodcat:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/SzVHAUXzRxbDcx1MA and https://photos.app.goo.gl/44t2FU5GQE3MPjCN9
<mrgoodcat> that looks awesome
<mrgoodcat> I still need to get up to copper harbor
<rick_h> yea, copper harbor was good stuff
<rick_h> the family had a great time and some fun trails
<rick_h> how's everyone doing aside from GH permissions?
<rick_h> guild ^
<rick_h> oops
<rick_h> wrong channel
<_stink_> could've been worse
<cmaloney> Heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-31
<dzho> lol that time when all your netfriends who work for $FIRM mention their Toronto trips separately in IRC
<dzho> too bad there's not a community component to the in-person stuff any more
<dzho> Toronto isn't that far from me
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> How's the day?
<_stink_> starting with CSS
<_stink_> groan
<_stink_> you?
<cmaloney> More fun with Django. :)
<cmaloney> CSS is lovely. :)
<rick_h> party
<zarozombie> hows django?
<cmaloney> It's a party on my computer and everyone's invited. ;)
<greg-g> that bad of security, eh? :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, me and Capital One have the best security. ;)
<zarozombie> lol
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/stgraber/status/1156624552941760515?s=20
<jrwren> really cool
<cmaloney> Oh, nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-01
<ColonelPanic001> Dear linux nerds, I have a screen question: https://imgur.com/a/2YULWX8
<ColonelPanic001> I don't know the words to describe it effectively, so I took a screenshot
<cmaloney> I don't understand the issue. :)
<ColonelPanic001> it seems like it's when it has over a certain amount of windows, it starts with that green... overlay, kind of... on the statusline
<mrgoodcat> ColonelPanic001: what is the hardstatus line in your screenrc?
<ColonelPanic001> hardstatus alwayslastline "%{= kG}[$USER@%{G}%H]%{g} %= %{= kw}%?%-Lw%?%{r}(%{W}%n*%f%t%?(%u)%?%{r})%{w}%?%+Lw%?%?%= %{g}]"
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-02
<mrgoodcat> anybody have a mechanical keybaord with mac layout they're happy with?
<cmaloney> I think the only person I know that would have that is lmorchard but sadly they're no longer in channel / MI
<greg-g> so, who is listening to Tool on their local copies in commemoration of them now being on streaming services as of today?
<jrwren> i'm listening on spotify, lol
<jrwren> let them have their royalties!
<greg-g> I bought the albums!
<greg-g> and went to concerts!
<jrwren> i never did.
<greg-g> I even owned a legit t-shirt (but I can't wear black shirts well, beard dandruff ;) )
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> a reason to be clean shaved. :p
<greg-g> too much work, would rather just not wear dark clothes :)
<greg-g> #productivitytips
<jrwren> black is the color of my true loves heart and the color of half of my clothes, to match.
<greg-g> well then
<jrwren> well, we met at City Club, a goth club, in Detroit, ya know? :)
<cmaloney> <3
<cmaloney> Don't have to worry about beard dandruff if you can't grow a beard
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-03
<jrwren> does pyohio post video?
<cmaloney> Yep
<jrwren> I beg you all to donate https://secure.actblue.com/donate/sms130k to help the best presidential candidate qualify for the next stages of the election
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-04
<cmaloney> morning
<dzho> it's a morning, yeah
<dzho> hard times for some in the channel given the OLF connections
<dzho> guy who runs the LPI training and testing at OLF is from Dayton, just off the top of my head
<cmaloney> Ugh, yes.
<greg-g> :(
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-27
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> the garmin nightmare might be over soon https://www.digitaltrends.com/wearables/garmin-service-resumes-malware/
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> PyOhio 2020 talks are up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGmzRIgDgOY&list=PL2k6bbM_wgjtGSzPXzUzP3AfVO-o4imbB
<jrwren> oh wow, 5-10min talks. that is great.
<cmaloney> Yeah, it really worked out
<cmaloney> learned a lot
<cmaloney> and viewing it now is just like being there. ;)
<jrwren> i was going to pick and choose but with short talks, might as well listen to each.
<jrwren> why are automake and autoconf 2 diff packages? are they ever not used together?
<cmaloney> Not sure.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-28
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-31
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> https://raymii.org/s/blog/Ubuntu_Snap_auto_updates_broke_my_development_setup.html
<jrwren> trying not to say see i told you so in other forums... so... just leaving htis here.
<greg-g> happy sysadmin day! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Administrator_Appreciation_Day :)
<greg-g> (I've lost track if we have anyone in here who plays that type of roll anymore....)
<_stink_> :D jrwren
<greg-g> s/roll/role/ # I haven't finished my tea yet
<cmaloney> I'm still part sysadmin
<cmaloney> You can't take the sysadmin / developer out without a lobotomy
<greg-g> true that
<jrwren> everyone who writes a Dockerfile is a sysadmin now.
<cmaloney> in every sense of that word
<cmaloney> "I just deployed some infrast... oh shit.
<greg-g> we don't really let our devs write dockerfiles, we make them use a DSL that we control so they can't do dumb things. That's sufficiently syadmin/BOFH-like, right?
<cmaloney> heh
<jrwren> heh
