#edubuntu 2006-01-02
<Lord_Athur> hi there
<Lord_Athur> when a log onto the terminal a text is shown, 
<Lord_Athur> it's about the NO WARRANTY of ubuntu
<Lord_Athur> can I change this text?
<Lord_Athur> can anybody help me?
<Lord_Athur> ogra_ibook, you're an ubuntu expert, can you help me?
<\sh> Lord_Athur: /etc/motd 
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<Lord_Athur> \sh, with ubuntu 5.04,  how can I delete mails (using the mail program of the terminal)?
<\sh> Lord_Athur: /join #ubuntu for support questions..
<Lord_Athur> thanks for the idea \sh 
<Lord_Athur> hi
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<lucasvo> hello everybody
<writer> Hello!
<ulinskie> writer, hi there
<writer> Hi
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: whare can I download the edubuntu dapper install cd for ppc?
<ogra_ibook> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-2/
<lucasvo> yup, I've already found it
<lucasvo> thanks
<Lord_Athur> hi
<writer> Hi
<Lord_Athur> hi mhz 
<mhz> hi Lord_Athur 
<Lord_Athur> hi there
<Lord_Athur> who uses xfree86?
<Yagisan> no one anymore ...
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Yagisan> not since they committed suicide ^W^W mass re-licensed 
<Yagisan> anyway
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> mhz, I've got an empy floppy
<Lord_Athur> what can be a good format to mount it?
* mhz had never used floppies in the last 3 years
<Lord_Athur> jajjaa
<Lord_Athur> is there anyone with the information?
<Lord_Athur> mhz, I cannot use a CD for 3 kb 
<Lord_Athur> xD
<Lord_Athur> and i need it for a pc without graphical enviroment
<mhz> cdrecord
<mhz> cdrecord --scanbus
<mhz> will give you the info you need for:
<Lord_Athur> a?
<Lord_Athur> what's that?
<Lord_Athur> ok
<mhz> cdrecord -v dev=X,Y,Z fs=16m speed=4 the_iso_file
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: mount /medial/floppy -t vfat
<Yagisan> s/medial/media
<Yagisan> is that what you are looking for ?
<Lord_Athur> thanks Yagisan 
<hyperactivecrond> hello all
<mhz> Yagisan: I thought Lord_Athur wanted to burn a CD
<Lord_Athur> mhz, I don't want to do that
<Lord_Athur> I only want to mount a floppy
<Lord_Athur> xD
<Lord_Athur> but I must especify the file system
<Lord_Athur> Yagisan, the command that you gave me is wrong
<mhz> Lord_Athur mhz, I cannot use a CD for 3 kb 
<mhz> Lord_Athur: you said that
<Lord_Athur> yes
* mhz got lost
<Lord_Athur> I wanted to tell you that I only can use a floppy for this case
<Lord_Athur> and not a cd
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: ok try this: mount /dev/fd0 -t vfat /media/floppy
<Yagisan> Lord_Athur: make sure you have a /media/floppy directory
<Yagisan> otherwise change to to somewhere else
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> Yagisan, 
<Lord_Athur> thanks i could do it
<Lord_Athur> I'll be back as soon as possible after repair my problem
<Lord_Athur> bye
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: got a minute, gifted man?
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: what do you need ?
<mhz_idle> as you know my main concern is old or less powerful hardware for edubuntu
<mhz_idle> so, I started working on customizing wmaker look until ogra mentioned that wmaker and fluxbox wouldn't suit freedesktop standards
<mhz_idle> then, 
<mhz_idle> yesterday I had some time to play and test XFCE again
<Yagisan> yes - I have quite a bit of "old" hardware
<jsgotangco> lol i thought i read "wanker" 
<jsgotangco> wmaker
<jsgotangco> haha
<mhz_idle> and met this guy in #xubuntu who has started a great cool project "DSS live"
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: hehehehehe
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: too much slack from holidays?
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, ive been busy of late
<jsgotangco> with a side project
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: this guy, 'nomed', has based his project on ubuntu but with many diff and used XFCE 90% free of GNOME libs dependency
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: pet or side?
<jsgotangco> side
<jsgotangco> hopefully it gets done next year
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: on?
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: so I now wonder...
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: if I want Edubuntu to be the cheapest on hardware consumption, which road should I take?
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, you'll know in due time
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: ubuntu does use lots of gnome
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: grrhhh :)
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, XFCE so at least you're gtk compatible
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: at least a clue or category?
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, it is docs related
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: I am seriously considering XFCE mainly because of desktop standrards
<mhz_idle> but If my other cncern is lib dependencies...
* jsgotangco is not a firm believer of desktop standards
<jsgotangco> i like my desktop to be programmable =)
<mhz_idle> DSS live has gotten free of those, but then have also used too many diff resources ubuntu does use
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: me too, I use fluxbox and wmaker only
<mhz_idle> but my concern has to be wider = students and schools
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, but you're developing a solution now, your opinions rarely matter heh
<mhz_idle> with old cheap hardware
<mhz_idle> heheh
<mhz_idle> that's why i am using xcfe now
<jsgotangco> its a nice desktop but its not my cup of tea
<jsgotangco> i still like the logic of patterns and methods of gnome
<mhz_idle> my concern is how much speed or weight on resources will I gain by getting rid of GNOME dependencies
<mhz_idle> and how much I can get rid of?
<jsgotangco> hmmm
<mhz_idle> considering Ubuntu/Edubuntu is 100 GNOME
<jsgotangco> well yes
<jsgotangco> you'll probrably be grabbing the basic gtk tookits for starters
<jsgotangco> not necessarily gnome  =)
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: even if you switch to xfce, you'll still need cire gnome and kde libs for many applications
<Yagisan> s/cire/core
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> especially for kedu
<mhz_idle> yup
<jsgotangco> you'll still have a leaner setup compared to full gnome
<jsgotangco> probably a few hundred MB less
<mhz_idle> and as I understand NOTHING about developing nor coding nor libs, I am totally clules about how to do this light-edubuntu
<mhz_idle> and make it a valid official option
<jsgotangco> i dont think that's possible for this cycle
<jsgotangco> too short
<jsgotangco> its january next year
<mhz_idle> AFAIK, DSS live is ubuntu but nomed says 'too tweaked'
<jsgotangco> its not well documented?
<mhz_idle> what?
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: here is the catch - want to use those ubuntu apps like firefox - then you need the gtk libs
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: want k3b - need the kde libs
<jsgotangco> Yagisan, k3b alone needs at least a 100MB worth of deps
<jsgotangco> heh
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: but in that case, k3b is worth it
<jsgotangco> (assuming you installed gnome)
<jsgotangco> sure it is
<jsgotangco> but getting 100MB over the network can be a shock
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: the only feasible way to slim down ubuntu - without getting a major cflags change, is to carefully pick your applications
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, you'll probably have to sacrifice the kde apps and focus on gtk
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: I'm shaped to 64k down now, I had to suck 250MB worth a while ago :(
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: perhaps even sacrifice gtk apps depening on your target box
<jsgotangco> are you currently being abused by evil telstra?
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, since youre targeting low-end systems, that's a good sacrifice (to remove the other apps)
<jsgotangco> but you'll have a limited app selection in the process
<jsgotangco> (unless there's a ton of edu apps on ncurses heh)
* mhz_idle sighs
<mhz_idle> :)
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: no, I went over my 20GB limit with tpg, trying to get something decent to watch for christmas O:-)
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> i might fly to brisbane after the new year
<jsgotangco> and stay for a few weeks
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: Yagisan:... what if I just made an edubuntu XFCE theme for our edubuntu cd.. will that be a start? will that be included in Dapper?
<jsgotangco> you can ask ogra to package it as a universe app i guess
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: I think that would help, but first
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: i mean , to be part of the shipped CD ;)
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: I'd sit down with pen & paper and decide what apps I'd want to use
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: my initial idea was to have same exact apps than edubuntu
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, that wouldn't be useful at all, since XFCE isn't in the CD for starters
<mhz_idle> later on, I met the 'libs' issues
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: then you need to trim the "fat" in other ways
<mhz_idle> trim = slim down?
<jsgotangco> (i dunno if XFCE got promoted to main,....)
<jsgotangco> maybe not
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: yes
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: actually it is to cut away
<mhz_idle> hehehe
<mhz_idle> .oO(english and its phrasal verbs!!!)
<mhz_idle> only native speakers can come up with them
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: how far from edubuntu do you want to go ?
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: we need to determine what is an acceptable loss for yoou
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: as I only understood the need and not what it actually implies... I just realized old chilean hardware was not ideal for edubuntu as it currently is. So my main goal was to make it less expensive.
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: are you planning a ltsp setup, or individual workstations ?
<mhz_idle> ltsp
<Yagisan> ok
<mhz_idle> or xmcdp
<mhz_idle> or any way I can set a semi-modern server and 10 or 20 workstations
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: I'd drop all kde stuff, and see if I can get a gtk replacement if you need that a particular app
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: what if I cut away FAT kde?
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: xfce might be good - do you have a comparison to gnome ?
<mhz_idle> nope just yey because I am still in the process of learning about what i am getting into :D
<mhz_idle> when I started theming wmaker I knew that was lot faster than gnome
<mhz_idle> on every aspect
<mhz_idle> I have no clue how to compare xfce and gnome unless you are talking about using a timer ;)
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, i wonder if its still edubuntu after shedding all that so called "fat"
<mhz_idle> exactly, thats my point
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: which comes back to my question,  how far from edubuntu do you want to go ?
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: would KDE be lighter than GNOME ? (considering I will use educational apps in edubuntu)
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: do you have a typical pc we can perform measurements on ?
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: hmmm, i can't quite understand your question
<jsgotangco> unlikely KDE has its own voodoo way different from gnome
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: I have gotten one, 600 MHz celeron, 128 MB ram, 20 GB
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: how much edubuntu are you willing to remove, to achieve your goal ?
<mhz_idle> but i guess typical would be 96 RAM
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: ok - and how many clients on a 96mb box ?
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: my first idea was to have the option for scholl admins to choose Wmaker or XFCE over GNOME when installing Edubuntu Dapper. That was it. Now..... Now I feel lost so because Edubuntu is also suitable for about 35% of the Chilean schools
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: so, answering your question today about 'how far' seems not clear to me.
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: I could make school servers to be 1 GHz + 256 RAM (maybe, just maybe, 512 MB), 20 GB
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: to determine how we can meet your target machine, I need to know how much I can remove, without you becoming unhappy
<mhz_idle> and most of clients would have 500 MHz, 48 or 64 MB of ram, 9 GB
<mhz_idle> heheheh
<jsgotangco> mhz_idle, windows NT
* jsgotangco hides
<mhz_idle> and the env. would be 1 server for 10 or 15 stations
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: with that, I would be happy to see 20 apps. per subject (Math, Lenaguage, etc) and group (from pre-kinder to 8 years olds, from 9 to 13 and from 14 to 18)
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: clients < 64mb won't boot, 96mb / 11 (10 users + some server otherhead) = ~8.7mb per client
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: depending on how active & how many *different* apps are running, that will be slow
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: eg no OOo, and no firefox on that server
<mhz_idle> OR, i could set a mixed env. LTSP + local installed
<mhz_idle> well, classes usually dont consider firefox unless we are talking about Wikpedia
<mhz_idle> (Moinpedia for jsgotangco)
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: we need to do a memory profile on what apps are used
<mhz_idle> any tool or script to do that?
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: I don't have the bandwidth to grab edubuntu & test until after jan 10
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: we build a test lab, and run top on the server
<jsgotangco> there's moinpedia?
<mhz_idle> jsgotangco: yup, Alexander (#moin) made a CSS for it and tested it against DB's with nice results
<mhz_idle> I ignore if it still is available as project
<jsgotangco> wow
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: I might be able to set a Lab to test it (1 server + 1 laptop and 1 PC
<mhz_idle> but I have no clue how to test mem behaviour
<mhz_idle> or cpu 
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: I can't test cpu, I don't have a spare box. I can however build a virtual lab
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: to test mem, you start logging memory use on and idle server
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: then you get everyone to log in and do their work while still logging
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: you see the peak usage and the average usage
<mhz_idle> yup, i understand/imagine those concepts but 'how do i get them in human like' language so I can chart them and convince schools this is a better option
<mhz_idle> something like 'bootchart' does
<mhz_idle> or even on a txt?
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: you need to get that lab built and perform the analysis and write up independently
<mhz_idle> ooh, i see
<mhz_idle> I can do that
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: ok, I'll start with the lab then
<Yagisan> mhz_idle: then you can see if you need to remove anything from edubuntu, or get the schools to spend more money
<mhz_idle> and understanding how to tweak GTK colors for winows and menus
<mhz_idle> (just in case)
<mhz_idle> Yagisan: jsgotangco: thx a lot. I feel less lost now 
* mhz_idle running otta batteries....
<mhz_idle> F1...
<mhz_idle> F1...
<mhz_idle> F1...
<mhz_idle> F1...
<mhz_idle> :D
* mhz_idle closing everything
<jsgotangco> i got to try sleeping
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> a can of V didnt work
<Petaris> Anyone here played with getting the terminals to logon to a Microsoft Active Directory or Novell eDirectory (NDS) domain?
<Yagisan> the edubuntu terminals ?
<Petaris> yeah, the ltsp terminals
<Petaris> I know novell has a linux client but it is packaged for suse and redhat, I'm not sure if you could safely use alien to convert it
<Petaris> and I'm not sure how possible it would be to do
<Yagisan> Petaris: it's actually the ltsp server that you'll need to modify -  and last time I tried integrating linux into AD it took days :(
<Petaris> well I have gentoo samba servers that are members of the domain, but that is a bit different
<Petaris> I mean to logon to the domain and map your network drives/etc when you logon to the terminal
<Petaris> http://www.novell.com/products/clients/linux/overview.html
<Petaris> there is the novell client
<Petaris> but it was made specifically for Novell Linux Desktop and Redhat, I don't know if that means it won't work with debianish systems or not
<aep> hi.
<aep> since i didnt find a channel that is about linux in education i chose yours.
<Petaris> aep: Hello
<Petaris> I use linux in education
<aep> i'm starting a project for educational institutes.
<Petaris> I'm a k-12 school district here
<aep> maybe you want to here about. it brought a lot of hard disuss only speaking out the topic of the project
<aep> (excuse my english please)
<aep> In the institutes i was, there is much windows installed. they dont change it becouse they think they would have to change the staff too
<Petaris> haha, I wish I could change some of the staff
<Petaris> ;)
<aep> my project aims to let linux look and feel exactely the same way windows does. So Institutes can change the OS without having _any_ trouble. most users dont even notice its another os
<aep> i tested it out with qvm and it was great, then with a modification of kde (see http://data.xparanoid.de/exosXP.jpg) and it was great. until the users tryed to start the system configurator or some win32 program
<aep> http://eligym.mine.nu/exos2006.pdf here is the (roadmap) of my project. i need many people to support me with code (e.g. i'm not able to write kernel modules)
<aep> and the roadmap is bad english too, sorry
<aep> if you are interested, to support me in _any_ way (even its just you want to say i'm on the wrong/rigth way)  then send a jabber to me   :)   aep@jabber.ccc.de  
<aep> i'm not hearing  any reaction ;-)
* Petaris is still reading the roadmap
<Petaris> the interface has been done before BTW
<aep> maybe hard to understand, since it's realy bad translated
<Petaris> check icewm
<aep> oh no, the intefaces done until now are not as powerfull as kde
<Petaris> true
<Petaris> Your'e putting a lot of trust in wine, some things will "just" work but most will not
<Petaris> and I wouldn't try to create a branch kernel, use modules then you can use the newest kernel easily when it comes out
<aep> it was not y idea to integrate wine. i know that it depends on much configuration to let some programms run in it. But i dont think wine should be a main-target, since the comunity brings a lot of better tools (like OO)
<aep> yes the module concept is  a good idea
<Petaris> and why would you need the winxp cd or lic
<aep> 1. becouse i would have a license problem if i do not ask for it and 2. becouse wine needs it to create a fake windows drive
<Petaris> since when?
<Petaris> I use wine with no winxp lic
<Petaris> and that would require still buying winxp
<aep> i doesnt _need_ it. But with that fake drive you have much better support. e.g iexplore 
<Petaris> eeeeek!
<Petaris> Why would you want to use iexplore?
<aep> i know , but i dont know howto solve it other way :/
<Petaris> use firefox
<Petaris> :)
<aep> no! but some win32 programms need it
<Petaris> I do for win and lin
<Petaris> oh
<Petaris> thats what you meant
<Petaris> yeah, for ie you need a win lic
<aep> yip
<aep> but i would like to solve it another way
<Petaris> which win progs do you think you need that require ie though?
<Petaris> use OO.org instead of MS Office
<aep> some that are very deep integrated. e.g. some installers get there proxy info out of ie
<aep> yes OO!
<Yagisan> Petaris: quite a few, including games
<Petaris> There should be a fake iexplore.exe file that has the proxy info etc but no ie, and thus no lic
<aep> but the main problem is the licensing.  all those styles are (c) by microsoft
<Yagisan> Petaris: I must be blind - I can't find source for that app from novell
<Petaris> Yagisan: you have to be registered (free) and logged int
<Petaris> er, in
<aep> maybe there is another way i could do it.  put the mirror somewhere in  the ocian :D
<aep> but anyway i realy need some support.  since a few months i thougth it will be based on gentoo, but now i changed my opinion... the gentoo guys where realy unfriendly to me, as i tryed to bring my project to them
<aep> so if you want to contact me you know my jabber id :-) 
<Petaris> Yagisan: http://katerina.frederic.k12.wi.us/code/novell-client-1.0-linux-nld9.tar.gz
<aep> seems you want to talk anymore or now. i must leave, so tell youre friends and contact me plz ;-)    .. cya
<Petaris> Yagisan: Here are the install instructions: http://www.novell.com/documentation/linux_client/index.html?page=/documentation/linux_client/linuxclient/data/hgcbnee7.html
<Yagisan> Petaris: thanks, I'll check it out when I wake up - see if I can spot any issues
<Petaris> ok thankt
<Petaris> er thatnks
<Yagisan> no worries
<Yagisan> Petaris: oh dear - it needs kernel source
<Yagisan> Petaris: that's a good sign it will break on upgrades
<Petaris> dosen't surprise me
<Petaris> but if it could be tweaked to work that would be a powerful tool
<Petaris> for adaptation of edubuntu in Novell shops
<Yagisan> Petaris: what are the redistribution conditions ? reading the overview page, they give the impression that you can't run it on other distros
<Petaris> Thats not the impression I got from the rep
<Petaris> let me check
<Petaris> nothing in the legal notice about it
<Petaris> Yagisan: Do you think any kernel-source will work?  Or might it be their tweaked source?
<Yagisan> Petaris: I don't know - I need to get the package (slowly coming down my shaped connection)
<Petaris> ahh
<Yagisan> night all
<Petaris> night
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> I need an advice
<KeithC> hey - quick question. i was wondering if theres an iso i can download of a live cd edubuntu... i want to test it and see if i want to set up an edubuntu box for my baby cousins.
<paolob> Hi guys! Anyone could tell me where does evolution store the mail accounts settings?
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> mhz, I need an advice from you
<mhz> Lord_Athur: shoot
<Lord_Athur> a?
<mhz> Lord_Athur: dime
<Lord_Athur> ok
<mhz> shoot = dispara = dime
<Lord_Athur> ok
<lucasvo> I just ran into first difficut thing in Edubuntu-dapper ppc installation
<lucasvo> ah, just solved it
<lucasvo> maybe not
#edubuntu 2006-01-03
<mhz> Maybe this is a good doc to read: http://www.iosn.net/education/foss-education-primer/
<hekar> hi
<mhz_dinner> I'll be right back
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
<lucasvo> hi ogra_ibook 
<dade> during usage edubuntu hangs alot on via gigapro board
<Yagisan> dade: using nvidia binary module ?
<dade> no! just the onboard vga card which is sis 
<Yagisan> dade: ok. does it happen on a specific application ?
<dade> it happens randomly after logon, it happened while i was trying to configure the ext modem
<Yagisan> dade: no heating issues ?
<dade> well may be i needto check that out. Though I have ubuntu on this laptop with the same chipset and performance has been ok
<Yagisan> dade: just thought I'd check - I know locally - it is unusually warm and we are having heating issues
<Yagisan> dade: edubuntu is just ubuntu with different default packages
<dade> I would like to get edubuntu to work on this type of boards because it will serve thelow end user environment like the rural schools
<dade> I just feel heating might be an issue considering the small fan on that processor
<Yagisan> dade: I'm honestly not familiar with that board, but in my experience, recently there seems to be scrimping on adequate cooling in many systems, as it's "too loud"
<Yagisan> dade: do you have any messages in syslog when it hangs ?
<Yagisan> dade: you can open /var/log/syslog up in a text editor, and see if there were any odd messages just before a hang
<dade> I tried checking out the syslog and it hang again before i could get thru. The board has its procesor etched in on the motherboard  and is very cheap
<Yagisan> dade: yet it works with "normal" ubuntu ?
<Yagisan> dade: if you press "Esc" on startup to get the grub menu, can you run memtest86 without it hanging ?
<dade> I have done memtest before but did wait for it to complete, I will redo it and surely feedback
<dade> I have done memtest before but didn't wait for it to complete, I will redo it and surely feedback
<dade> Thanks Yagisan
<zakame> hello mhz , writer :D
<writer> Hi
<mhz> hi zakame 
<mhz> zakame: I know this is OT, but any idea how to convert ogg into mp3?
<Yagisan> mhz: you don't want to do that
<zakame> mhz: hm there are scripts to do that I think :) like mp32ogg, except that in your case it should be ogg2mp3 :)
<mhz> Yagisan: i know, it is not for me
<mhz> :(
<mhz> I can make ogg into wav
<Yagisan> mhz: ahh, so they don't have the source anymore
<Yagisan> mhz: mp3 & ogg are like jpg
<mhz> yup
<zakame> I suppose you can also make a gstreamer pipeline from vorbis src to mpegsink
<Yagisan> mhz: they work by throwing away information
<Yagisan> mhz: any mp3's made from an ogg, will sound crap to anyone with working ears
<Yagisan> mhz: that said, we can convert them
<Yagisan> mhz: http://marginalhacks.com/bin/ogg2mp3 ?? this help
<zakame> not unless mp3 is encoded as vbr
<zakame> (but usually mp3s are cbr)
* mhz tabbing
<sTo0z> Alright guys, this is going to seem hilarious to some of you, but I can't for the life of me, add users to an edubuntu server so that thin clients can login.
<Yagisan> sTo0z: System -> Administration -> Users and Groups
<sTo0z> Yep, was there :)
<sTo0z> Added users in the standard fashion, but the clients would not log in.
<ogra_ibook> does the admin user work ? 
<sTo0z> hmm let me try
<mhz> ogra_ibook: I'd like some words with you when i'm back home (about 6 hours :( ) Any chances you might be around ?
<ogra_ibook> i hope so ...
<sTo0z> Yes, the admin account worked
<ogra_ibook> hmm, thats strange ...
<ogra_ibook> do you have anothe machine handy ?
<sTo0z> So just adding users in the standard way is the way to do it?
<ogra_ibook> could you try to log in via ssh with one of the users you created ? 
<sTo0z> Umm, not especially, there is an obnoxious mix of NICs here, i'd have to go through another PXE/ rom-o-matic session ;)
<sTo0z> yah I can try that
<ogra_ibook> normally users work right away if they are added to the system either way
<ogra_ibook> any use that can ssh into the system can also use ltsp ...
<ogra_ibook> s7use/user
<sTo0z> had to restart the server, the mouse went nuts
<sTo0z> :P
<sTo0z> ok
<sTo0z> created a fresh user
<sTo0z> unable to login from thin client machine
<sTo0z> CAN ssh
<sTo0z> and just for the record, when a user tries to login, the screen flickers for a bit, then it goes back to the login screen, no error or anything
<sTo0z> if that tells you anythiong
<ogra_ibook> not really
<sTo0z> heh, didn't think so
<zakame> hm perhaps something's wrogn at the local level
<ogra_ibook> can you create a root password in the chroot and log in on console at the thin client ?
<ogra_ibook> then have a look at /var/log/ldm.log
<sTo0z> trying
<sTo0z> its wierd that the admin account logged in fine though, isn't it?
<ogra_ibook> its weird that th eaccounts that can ssh into the server cannot login via the thin client
<sTo0z> right so it cant be the machine, because thre is at least one login that is working (the admin)
<ogra_ibook> it can only be a ssh problem ... since all login stuff happens at this level
<lucasvo> sTo0z: have you ever tried to log in on the server int a normal gnome session?
<ogra_ibook> but ldm.log will show
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: my ppc installation somehow hangs
<ogra_ibook> lucasvo, edubuntu ?
<sTo0z> lucasvo: you mean locally onto the machine itself?
<lucasvo> jup
<lucasvo> sTo0z: yes
<ogra_ibook> lucasvo, but you selected workstation ?
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: yes
<ogra_ibook> note the default instll wont work yet
<sTo0z> let me verify that real quick :)
<ogra_ibook> thats strange ... look at console 4 where it hangs
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: how can I get to console 4? ctrL+alt+ f4 doesn't wok
<sTo0z> alright logged into the server with a user and got a bunch of home directory errors
<sTo0z> one that it didn't exist
<sTo0z> and one about permissions
<ogra_ibook> ah
<ogra_ibook> that explains it
<ogra_ibook> you didnt tell whatever tool you used for making the users to create the homedirs for them
<sTo0z> so what is the standard way to add users with the "Users and Groups" interface to avoid this problem?
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: what do you think of:http://www.digitec.ch/ProdukteDetails2.aspx?Reiter=Details&Artikel=113986
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: Bad archive mirror, the specified Ubuntu archive mirror is either ont available, or does not have a valid release file on it. please try a different mirror
<ogra_ibook> looks like your network card is down ...
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: do I really need internet connection for edubuntu install?
<lucasvo> is it a joke or what?
<ogra_ibook> nope, you didnt choose an english install i guess
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: I did, but I selected the swiss keyboard layot
<lucasvo> and I chose country: CH
<ogra_ibook> so thats your prob then ... as noted in the flight2 release notes ;)
<lucasvo> another error: No NewWorld boot partition was found. The yaboot boot loader requires an Apple_Bootstrap partition at least 819200 bytes in size, using the HFS file system
<jsgotangco> ogra_ibook, hi
<lucasvo> but there is:#1 32.2kB Apple
<ogra_ibook> hi jsgotangco 
<sTo0z> thanks for your help guys!
<ogra_ibook> sTo0z, works now ? 
<jsgotangco> ogra_ibook, ppc fetish lately?
<sTo0z> no, but i think i can get there now :)
<sTo0z> just gotta figure out how to add users correctly in the users and groups interface
<ogra_ibook> jsgotangco, long standing whish :)
<sTo0z> im guessing its in the advanced tab somewhere
<ogra_ibook> jsgotangco, and i want to make JaneW happy with a working ppc image this release :)
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: could it be, that guided partitioning with LVM isn't working correctly?
<jsgotangco> oohhh
<ogra_ibook> lucasvo, no idea, never used lvm on a desktop ...
<jsgotangco> i'm getting a ppc by feb, it'll be fun
<ogra_ibook> i got ppc ltsp working since yesterday, quite cool 
<lucasvo> *LOL*
<lucasvo> when I choose guided partitioning and then no LVM, erase entiredisk:
<lucasvo> Error informing the kernel about modifications to partition /dev/hda3 -- Device or resource busy. This means LInux won't know about any changes  you made to /dev/hda3 until you reboot -- so you shouldn't mount it or use it in any way before rebooting.
<lucasvo> ERROR!!!
<lucasvo> Ignore/Cancel
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: you never used lvm on a desktop - shame on you
<ogra_ibook> why ? 
<Yagisan> lucasvo: when I did breezy, I did a manual lvm. I blatantly ignored that error myself
<ogra_ibook> i usually have 2 partitions ... no matter how big the disk is on my desktops
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: what should I do with my installation?
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: I take it you've never had to resize desktop partitions
<ogra_ibook> Yagisan, if i take all space, there is nothing left to resize ;)
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: btw - the shame on you was tonge in cheek
<ogra_ibook> :)
<Yagisan> s/tonge/tongue
<ogra_ibook> i know
<jsgotangco> ogra_ibook, i wonder though if there are people actually using a mac as an ltsp server though
<ogra_ibook> lucasvo, go on with a normal manual partitioning ? 
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: how do I have to partition manually?
<ogra_ibook> jsgotangco, not really, but lots of cheap old imacs 
<ogra_ibook> lucasvo, with the partitioner tool ... 
<ogra_ibook> it offers a manual partitioning
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: well, when all your windows using mates joke that you could be your own torrent site, you do fine resize handy
<Yagisan> jsgotangco: ppc would be a nice server - but even I think it will be ppc clients
<ogra_ibook> jsgotangco, if apple drops ppc you'll get tons of cheap imac, so the ppc arch is important for thin clients
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: did you get my explanations about qemu and ppc binaries the other day ?
<ogra_ibook> Yagisan, i *could* use gparted and resize my ext3 partition without any hassle if i wanted ...
<ogra_ibook> no need for lvm
<jsgotangco> ogra_ibook, lots of legacy support love yes...
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: onto a second disk too ...
<ogra_ibook> nope
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: which nope - qemu or disk ?
<ogra_ibook> Yagisan, true, that wont work ... but there is no reason that i couldnt mount the second disk in my homedir if i really need it ... and i save a lot of layers between me and the hardware
<ogra_ibook> quemu
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: ok - just a sec, I'll dig up my log
<sTo0z> hilariously enough the mouse flipped out again and now im stuck at 640 x 480 resolution :P
<ogra_ibook> what kind of mouse is this and what kind of graphics card ? 
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: found the log
<ogra_ibook> got it
<Yagisan> so people, what filesystem(s) are you using on your edubuntu or ltsp server ? I'll get started - /boot & / = ext3, all others jfs
<ogra_ibook> ext3 all over the place
<ogra_ibook> and surely no /boot
<ogra_ibook> i'm a big fan of xfs on servers though
<Yagisan> ogra_ibook: I tried xfs. It died horribly depending on whether I booted a 64bit or 32bit kernel
<ogra_ibook> heh, i dont play with kernels on production servers
<Yagisan> wuss :-P
<sTo0z> ok so when I'm making accounts
<sTo0z> it's putting in the home directory in their settings
<sTo0z> but it's not creating the directory
<sTo0z> i;m supposed to create them all manually?
<ogra_ibook> nope
<sTo0z> that's the login error they get, the home dir doesnt exist and it asks if you want to use / instead, which they wouldnt have privs for obviously
<ogra_ibook> there is something wrong i guess
<sTo0z> which is why the thin clients arent getting in
<ogra_ibook> yup
<sTo0z> wierd.. this is all a fresh install :\
<ogra_ibook> i never had such probs and havent heard something similar yet
<sTo0z> just tried to make a directory on administrator (the account i setup during install) and he got denied.
<ogra_ibook> is /home/$user shown in the second tab of the add-user popup win ? 
<ogra_ibook> hmm
<ogra_ibook> is your /home mounted read only by chance ? 
<sTo0z> just looked, seems fine, there's write permissions on it
<ogra_ibook> very strange
<ogra_ibook> and the dirs you created manually have the right owners and permissions ? 
<sTo0z> havent made any manually yet, well just did sorta
<sTo0z> su'd in and made one, testing now
<ogra_ibook> su'd ??
<ogra_ibook> in an edubuntu ? 
<sTo0z> ok had to manually create the folder and then manually change all the permissions to the new account
<sTo0z> yah the account made during install was getting denied, so sudo su -
<ogra_ibook> sure, the account is as powerless as any other unless you use sudo in front of your commands
<ogra_ibook> we didnt just clone root and called it differently ;)
<sTo0z> hehe
<sTo0z> so yah the foldres arent getting created when new users are added
<sTo0z> :\
<ogra_ibook> hmm they get here ...
<ogra_ibook> there is something weird with your setup ... how did you install ? default install, workstation or server install with setting up anything manually
<ogra_ibook> s/anything/everything/
<sTo0z> default
<sTo0z> hit enter at the prompt
<sTo0z> not server or anything
<sTo0z> let it run, set up the IP and everything with 192.168.0.1 etc
<ogra_ibook> hmm
<sTo0z> so during setup
<sTo0z> the account yuo create
<sTo0z> should you be able to log in wih that account
<sTo0z> and use the users and groups thing?
<sTo0z> or do you need root and do it from the command line?
<ogra_ibook> you do it with the admin account you created ...
<ogra_ibook> root is disabled by default ... in the default setup the user and groups admin tool will ask you for your password before showing the window
<sTo0z> right
<sTo0z> it does all that
<sTo0z> wanna hear something funny?
<sTo0z> its working now apparently
<sTo0z> and i didnt even change anything
<sTo0z> just created some more accounts and now they are showing up in home directory for some reason
<ogra_ibook> hmm
<sTo0z> no idea :x
<sTo0z> there's two other "better than me at linux" guys here, but they said they didnt touch anything either
<sTo0z> well i thank you a whole bunch for your effort you put in for me ogra, it is much appreciated.. luckily this was a small test environment, hopefully the real deal goes a little smoother ;)
<ogra_ibook> feel free to come back with more questions :)
<solv> what sort of user/desktop administration comes with edubuntu?  Can I control menu & desktop settings for all and specific users when using ltsp?
#edubuntu 2006-01-04
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> mhz, 
<Lord_Athur> has you seen Edulinux?
<mhz> Lord_Athur: no lo uso pero lo he visto
<Lord_Athur> it's made for a chilean university
<Lord_Athur> who is better?
<Lord_Athur> edubuntu orf edulinux?
<Lord_Athur> mhz,  edubuntu or edulinux?
<mhz> better is not simple to define
<Lord_Athur> :D
<mhz> for me, Edubuntu!
<Lord_Athur> but...
<Lord_Athur> can you give me reasons?
<mhz> not now, worry
<mhz> sorry
<Lord_Athur> ok
* mhz in a meeting
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> I will have to download the CDs of Edulinux to test it
<Lord_Athur> and decide
<lucasvo> kjcole is on holiday?
<lucasvo> !seen kjcole
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/483986 < my nautilus isn't working anymore
<zakame> hello mhz 
<mhz> zakame: hi
<Petaris> Hello all
<mhz> neurogeek: que tengas una muy feliz velada y un excelente ano
<mhz> (en cas de no verte pronto)
<neurogeek> mhz, Happy New Year to you and your family!!
<mhz> neurogeek: thx
<lucasvo> anybody know whats wrong: lucasvo@lama:~$ nautilus
<lucasvo> seahorse nautilus module initialized
<lucasvo> SWFDEC: ERROR: swfdec_font.c(158): tag_func_define_font_2: langcode 1
<lucasvo> SWFDEC: ERROR: swfdec_font.c(158): tag_func_define_font_2: langcode 1
<lucasvo> SWFDEC: ERROR: swfdec_font.c(158): tag_func_define_font_2: langcode 1
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ nautilus
<lucasvo> ?
<mhz> Anyone here from Sweden or arounds?
<jouni__> hi from Finland
<mhz> jouni__: this is VERY off topic but I want to give my grand mom a summary of swedish, finnish, etc coking recipes
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> any ideas where to get them from?
<lucasvo> mhz: www.amazon.sw
<mhz> hehehehe, lucasvo 
<mhz> I was hoping to make a book for her.
<mhz> She doesnt read english
<mhz> so, I was thinking of trasnlating some recipes to her and place some pictures
<mhz> and print it
<mhz> so downloading sounded lot better
<jouni__> mhz do you or your grand mom read any finnish?
<mhz> heheh, nope.
<mhz> that's a detail :D
<mhz> but finnish reading looks quite beautiful, imho
<mhz> ;)
<lucasvo> mhz: or you could cook it while writing, so you would know which one should be in there :D
<mhz> lucasvo: LOL
<mhz> lucasvo: happy new year!
<lucasvo> mhz: why happy new year?
<jouni__> I find some finish recipes. google swedish tv cooking programs etc.
<mhz> lucasvo: just a friendly way to tell you "in case I dont' see yaou around tomorrow (UTC tricks), I wish you a happy  new year"
<mhz> jouni__: okis, thx
* mhz googling again
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/483986 < my nautilus isn't working anymore
<lucasvo> anyone know what's wrong?
<lucasvo> mhz: aha
<lucasvo> mhz: same to you
<mhz> lucasvo: I whish I help but the heaviest WM I use is XFCE 
<mhz> I have not used nautilus in the last 2 years or so
<mhz> .oO(maybe I have never ued it ?)
<mhz> sued
<mhz> used
<mhz> duh!
<jouni__> lucasvo this is maybe related to your nautilus https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10973
<jouni__> SWF (macromedia flash)
<lucasvo> jouni__: hm, SWF, exactly...
<jouni__> lucasvo I just googled it. Are you running edubuntu 5.10 desktop? 
<lucasvo> jouni__: no, dapper
<jouni__> lucasvo maybe something is wrong with Package libswfdec0.3
<jouni__> lucasvo could you remove or downgrade this package and try nautilus again
<jouni__> mhz http://www.tv4.se/matdryck/bastamaten/ http://matochfritid.yle.fi/ http://www.arla.se/
<lucasvo> jouni__: let's try
<lucasvo> jouni__: wow it worked... 
<lucasvo> is it a known bug?
<jouni__> no I don't think so Package libswfdec0.3 hasn't been changed much.
<lucasvo> jouni__: but maybe nautilus
<jouni__> lucasvo what version of nautilus you have?
<lucasvo> jouni__: the latest from ubuntu dapper
<lucasvo> let me check
<lucasvo> Gnome nautilus 2.13.3
<lucasvo> w 13
<jouni__> I am now on ubuntu dapper. I try to install libswfdec0.3 and see if nautilus brokes
<lucasvo> jouni__: it happened after I saved a swf file in my homedir
#edubuntu 2006-01-05
<Lord_Athur> hi
<zakame> heya Lord_Athur , happy new year :)
<Lord_Athur> thanks zakame happy new year  for you too
<tclong> reinstalling edubuntu. Everything fine until first boot off the harddisk. And when it configures the packages it gets stuck on gome-cups-manager and then bails. Gnome desktop opens but synaptic package mananger won't open unless I run 'dpkg --configure -a' but that gives me errors about gcompris-data not being installed. 'sudo dpkg -i /.../gcompris-data_....deb' give me a "short read in buffer_copy (backend dpkg-deb during `./u
<tclong> sr/share/gcompris/python/connect4p/minmax.py')" error. Any thoughts?
#edubuntu 2006-01-06
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> is there anybody?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<tclong> Happy New Year!
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> Banux
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> I've got a problem, is there anybody?
<Lord_Athur> hi
<jouni__m> hi. any chemist here?
<tinsleyc> Anybody working with Dapper Edubuntu?
<tinsleyc> Rejoining.  Anybody working with edubuntu version of Dapper?
<tinsleyc> I had one daily build that would attempt to load but today it fails on release notes so it must be getting too old.  The latest builds generally fail on detecting the right kernel and then no network interface.  Dapper daily seems to work fine.
<tinsleyc> Welcome to 2006.  Anybody awake out there?
<tinsleyc> Hello jinty
<jinty> hey tinsleyc
<tinsleyc> Welcome to 2006.
<jinty> whatsup?
<jinty> to yu too
<tinsleyc> I am trying to find out if anyone is trying to load the edubuntu daily build version of Dapper.
<jinty> never tried myself...
<tinsleyc> 5.10 works fine.  An early build would try and almost finsihed but today, it won't download the release notes from the mirror and fails.  Later builds fail.
<tinsleyc> Dapper daily will load okay.
<tinsleyc> What's up with you?
<jinty> me, well I mostly work on schooltool,but just hang out here as a lurker
<tinsleyc> I guess we both be lurking...  What is the status of schooltool?
<jinty> soon to release the first alpha versions of schooltool 2006
<jinty> so in heavy development part of the release cycle.
<tinsleyc> Is it possible to define soon?
<jinty> we have a roadmap: http://www.schooltool.org/products/schooltool-2006/roadmap
<tinsleyc> thanks
<jinty> and nightly tarballs: ftp://ftp.schooltool.org/pub/schooltool/releases/nightly/
<tinsleyc> You are working on the "discussed" features for "Christmas"?
<jinty> yeah, it seems the last commits were about one of those points
<jinty> I am actually more involved with the packaging and build system than the coding
<jinty> Don't have an infinity of free time
<tinsleyc> Understand.
<tinsleyc> Hello blue-frog.
<blue-frog> hi
<tinsleyc> Welcome to 2006.
<tinsleyc> Anybody working with edubuntu version of Dapper?
<spacey> tinsleyc, only as thinclient chroot
<tinsleyc> 5.10 works fine.  An early build would try and almost finsihed but today, it won't download the release notes from the mirror and fails.  Later builds fail.
<tinsleyc> I can't get Edubuntu Dapper to install.
<tinsleyc> I am trying to find out if anyone is trying to load the edubuntu daily build version of Dapper.
<tinsleyc> The silence is, well, deafening...
* mhz_BBL is about to install Dapper daily 2005-12-30
<tinsleyc> mhz_BBL, let me know how it goes?  TIA
<mhz> tinsleyc: sure
<mhz> I downladed that daily built as my edubuntu-dapper 1st try
<mhz> and the results will be wikied under wiki:MauricioHernandez 
<tinsleyc> I will check.  I can't get it to install even thought 5.10 installs fine.  My results have been, with an earlier daily, it almost installed after stumbling on the kernel but today it wouldn't even get beyond the download of release notes from the mirro and the last few daily's, including today's, give a kernel match erorr and then fail on finding a netework card.  I can install the Dapper daily fine.
<mhz> tinsleyc: would it be better if we make a wiki page for testing results ?
* mhz could start it right away
<tinsleyc> I am wondering what I am doing wrong.  Sure would, atleast providing some feed back to the developers.
<tinsleyc> It starts okay on my system but then I get the kernel not found error which I hit continue on.  It fails later on the network card.
<mhz> okis, I am on it now
<tinsleyc> I have also noticed that the size of the daily build vary quite a bit, anywhere from 620 MB to almost 700.
<mhz> mine is 622 mb
<tinsleyc> Today's is 658 MB according to the website 01/02/2006, yesterdays was around 623, prior days were at 658.  I am wondering if my I might have better results from the daily DVD.  Going to try that.
<tinsleyc> What kind of hardware are you installing on?
<tinsleyc> be nice if one could rsync the daily builds.
<mhz> 1 GHz Celeron, 192 RAM, 80 GB
<mhz> tinsleyc: I tried once ... but rsync insisted on downloading all the thing again
<mhz> so I gave up
<mhz> but havent tried since then
<tinsleyc> I am working on newer hardware but not new, 2 years old, AMD 2200+ 758 MB of Ram, Onboard Nic.
<tinsleyc> And like I reported, 5.10 installs without any problems and updates well.
<mhz> weired
<mhz> have you told ogra about it?
<tinsleyc> How do I do that?
<tinsleyc> You need to do that offline, my email clintin at linuxmail.com
<tinsleyc> Oops, make that linuxmail.org
<mhz> hehhe
<mhz> when you see ogra here, you tell him
<mhz> OR
<mhz> you can send an email to edubuntu-devel list
<tinsleyc> okay.  I think I am on the devel list but haven't seen a lot of activity there lately; have to double check.
<tinsleyc> I am on the devel list.
* mhz will now disconnect form his server ...BBS
<mhz> tinsleyc: nope
<mhz> daily wont install
<mhz> :(
<mhz> we're 2 now ;)
<mhz> (looking the positive side of it)
#edubuntu 2006-01-07
<tinsleyc> Mauricio, Good not to be alone.  Was starting to think there was something I was doing wrong.  Where did your install fail at?
<mhz> at the 'Load installer components from CD' stage
<mhz> I did try jus thiting enter (normal mode of install) and also 'expert mode'
<mhz> they both failed
<mhz> at the same point
<tinsleyc> Insteresting, I am downloading the DVD version now, currently at 57%, see how that goes. I also have some other hardware I can test on.
<tinsleyc> Probably, won't know anything for another 2 hours.
<Lord_Athur> hi
<mhz> Lord_Athur: hola
<mhz> tinsleyc: 
<mhz> okis
<Lord_Athur> hola mhz y feliz ao nuevo
<mhz> happy new year to you and yur family too
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<Lord_Athur> mhz, 
<Lord_Athur> I've got few questions about bootsplash
<Lord_Athur> do you know something about?
<Lord_Athur> mhz,  do you know something about?
<Lord_Athur> 
<mhz> Lord_Athur: nope, I have not started to play with my own metadistro yet
<mhz> Lord_Athur: but shoot anyways
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> Lord_Athur: the best metadistro project I have tried so far, from the user-experience perspective, IMHO, is DSS Live
<mhz> project based in Ubuntu
<mhz> and oriented towards users who wish to make their own metadistro
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> thanks mhz 
<Lord_Athur> have you got the link to the distro official page?
<tinsleyc> http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/index.php/Home
<mhz> http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/index.php/Home
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> thx tinsleyc 
<mhz> ;)
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> thanks you two
<mhz> np
<mhz> Lord_Athur: but remember it is BASED on ubuntu
<tinsleyc> current is on 5.10
<mhz> it is not 100% ubuntu as it is using a diff aproach and diff structure
<mhz> Lord_Athur: but once it is ready.. it will kick some butts!
<mhz> ;d
<mhz> ;p
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> maybe I asked it yesterday bur i continue with the question
<Lord_Athur> I cannot mount a initrd file
<Lord_Athur> the details are here http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6471
<Lord_Athur> nobody have been able to answer me in other channels....
<Lord_Athur> nobody again????
<Athur> do you see pitux....?
<Athur> nobody with the answer
<tinsleyc> I think mhz went to dinner
<Athur> mmmm
<Athur> maybe
<Athur> but...
<Athur> what can this be important to someone here?
<Athur> jajaja
<tinsleyc> did you check syslog and dmesg?
<Athur> no
<Athur> I have not do that yet
<Athur> tinsleyc, 
<Athur> how do i do that?
<tinsleyc> both are in var/log.  You can cat or tail the logs.
<deang> silly question, is Moodle pre-installed?    
<Hentz-Brazil> hello 
<tinsleyc> hell0
<tinsleyc> Moodle is not installed in 5.10
<tinsleyc> Note to mhz, if you are around.  I am begining to wonder how much testing the daily builds go through, even in the compilation of the dapper edubuntu builds.  The DVD is a coaster, md5sum was wrong even though it appeared I had a good download.  Do we want to open a discussion on this somewhere?
<deang> thanks.   Are they adding links to the installed servers under the App's menu?
<deang> Woops, -?.      Had to go spelunking for the SchoolTool port today.
<deang> ..and GCompris rocks.  My 5 and 7 year old love it.   Please consider linking it under Education
<tinsleyc> deang, what thread are we discussing here? If you didn't find the ports, check  ftp://ftp.schooltool.org/pub/schooltool/releases/nightly/
<mhz_BBS> tinsleyc: i am sorry I just got back home and feel very tired
<mhz> my guess is that the best we can do is send an email to edubunt-devel lists
<tinsleyc> You have more insights into this but it appears to me that the daily builds need some testing before they posted.  I must have made 3 or 4 coasters over the last two days including the DVD, all pretty useless and I checked the md5's before burning.  The DVD didn't pass the md5 but the download looked good so I burned it in not wanting to spend another 2 to 3 hours downloading.
<mhz> tinsleyc: I agree but without ogra knowing this, I dont think it will be better
<mhz> tinsleyc: and you tried flight 2 before?
<tinsleyc> Yes, Flight CD2 works fine.
<tinsleyc> I went back to the first edubuntu CD that sort of installed but seem to hang during installing oo; did just a workstation install and it is hanging at 84% on oo as well.  Thought I might be able to get a good edubuntu base that I could then use apt get to make work including the edubuntu-server component.
<mhz> tinsleyc: edubuntu breezy DOES not hang
<mhz> it llloks like it
<mhz> but it is installing
<mhz> the LTSP envirnments
<mhz> environment
<tinsleyc> nope, everthing I have done with 5.10 Breezy has worked including the edubuntu full install with ltsp.
<mhz> I bet it happens on the 50%
<mhz> yup
<mhz> ohm you are talking about the dapper 'previous' cd?
<tinsleyc> on the 6.04 edubuntu install, the LTSP did hang at 50% but I just had it go past that point and then it hangs on the oo install/download from the mirror.
<tinsleyc> I am talking about the "previous" CD, the one I got close on installing; the last two current daily builds dont' go at all.
<mhz> ooh, okis
<mhz> sorry
<tinsleyc> np
<tinsleyc> Do we have any idea as to the developement team for the daily builds for edubuntu dapper or how mightone become involved?
<mhz> tinsleyc: afaik, we are Dapper dependant n 100%
<tinsleyc> but dapper seems to work.
<tinsleyc> we must be doing some remastering to incorporate the edubuntu implementation.
<tinsleyc> For now, I am going let the installation sit on the oo piece and see if it ever finishes.
<mhz> hehehe
<tinsleyc> It is doing something as my router does show internet traffic resulting from that box.
<tinsley_away> Oh, Athur was on early, I was sending a message to him about the location of the syslog and dmesg logs and he left abrubtly, not to return.
<tinsley_away> mhz ... oops. when I downloaded the dvd, it was over 2 GB and Firefox seems to fail frequently on files over 2 GB.  Using wget to fetch the DVD.  Will get back to you tomorrow night (I work tomorrow day, Idaho time).  In the meantime, if you happen to visit with ogra, pass along our comments here, as well as doing some testing of the builds.  Clint
<crimsun> mauricio left.
<tinsley_away> yea, that seems to happen alot lately, just as I am writing.
<tinsley_away> thanks.
<tinsley_away> good night all
<mhz> Happy new year!
<mhz> (Moinday, in Chile)
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> Monday not Moin day :D
<mhz> ogra: hey good day
<lucasvo> hi mhz 
<mhz> hi lucasvo 
<mhz> were you good at NY'E 
<mhz> ?
<lucasvo> yeah, did nothing special...
<lucasvo> you?
<mhz> me neither, I am quiet kind of guy
<mhz> dinner, movie, sleep
* mhz missed some poker or card games, though
<lucasvo> mhz: not thinking about ubuntu any more?
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> why?
<mhz> what is ubuntu?
<mhz> :D
<lucasvo> I mean the commercial side of canonical?
<mhz> lucasvo: oh yes, I am but if I dont get some money soon (real soon), the first service I know my wife will cut is internet
<mhz> then phone
<mhz> (the 2 services I care more about)
<lucasvo> :D
<mhz> and I will have to start selling this laptop
<mhz> :)
<lucasvo> mhz: so what will you do ?
<mhz> well, I have finished a short summary about Edubuntu for Junior 'school's' Teachers
<mhz> and I am starting another doc for Primary school teacher now
<mhz> Those docs are intended for promoting Edubuntu in Schools
<mhz> Teachers are ending the school year in 1 or two weeks
<mhz> and I hope I can deliver this to some of them to at least get their attenttion and offer non-expensive training courses in GnuLinux
<mhz> also, on Thursday, I am meeting a very important guy of a company realted to education
<mhz> and I am making a list of potential people who may/should be interested in helping me with funds
<lucasvo> cool
<mhz> lucasvo: so, I am not giving up easily, nor letting myself die just like that... still alive and kicking
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> Anyone here testing daily images?
<tinsleyc> Mauricio, I just sent you a note on gmail regarding where I am at after our conversations on this yesterday.  Have to run off to the office out the door.  IRC is blocked there (corporate firewall over which I have no control) so right now I can't be here during the work day.
<mhz> tinsleyc: cool! thx, man,
<tinsleyc> catch you later!
<tinsleyc> I will also be checking my gmail at the office.
<mhz> bye tinsleyc (/me reading emails)
<tinsleyc> Bys
* mhz listens to Haggard.AwakingTheCenturies/Chapter_I_Heavenly_Damnation
<lucasvo> mhz: do you know the webpage with free music?
<lucasvo> I mean opensource music?
<mhz> lucasvo: nope, unfortuantelly
<lucasvo> mhz: magnatunes.org
* mhz happily tabbing
<lucasvo> something like that
<mhz> lucasvo: http://www.vorbis.com/music/
<lucasvo> hi ogra 
<mhz> lucasvo: http://www.osmonline.com/  :(
<mhz> nice looking flash :(
<lucasvo> flash :D
<lucasvo> too bad that it isn't opensource
<lucasvo> :(
<lucasvo> did some people try to do reverse engineering?
<mhz> IIRC there have been attemtps but no idea about current state
* mhz trying gnome-btorrent for 1st time
* mhz would have prefered non-gui to avoid potential breakes
* mhz stopped btorrent after 4 minutes with no 'action'
<mhz> (o MB)
* mhz tries never failing wget -c
<mhz> :)
<kjcole> ping ogra
<mhz> kjcole: happy new year!
<kjcole> Hi!  I'm already breaking resolutions for the new year. ;-)
<mhz> ogra: I have read the troubles 'report' you pointed, and the only 'edubuntu matches' firefox finds is about powerpc: Binaries from edubuntu-meta 0.40 cannot be installed:
<mhz>     * edubuntu-desktop(powerpc) 
<mhz> kjcole: what you mean?
<kjcole> mhz, Possibly an American thing (I'm a cultural illiterate.): New Years resolutions are popular and often well advertised promises one makes to change for the better in the new year.
<mhz> heheheheh
<ogra> kjcole, pong
<mhz> kjcole: so you are actually hacking a cultural thing?
<kjcole> mhz, e.g. I promise to exercise more and eat less.  I promise to be more diligent about reading Debian packaging guides... ;-)
<mhz> lol
<kjcole> ogra,Hi and happy new year.  Quick question before I file a bug:
<ogra> shoot
<kjcole> ogra: (I wasn't sure where to search for existing reports).  Edubuntu: I have an edubuntu box that I've dist-upgraded to dapper.
<ogra> ugh
<ogra> never use *dist-*upgrade for development systems 
<kjcole> ogra: I notice that the kig (geometry) package depends on libboost-python1.33.0c2a, which in turn depends on python-2.3)
<ogra> only use upgrade and cherrypick the held back packages
<kjcole> Apparently that's the ONLY thing in the in Edubuntu that depends on python 2.3...  Was wondering if it was possible to change that to 2.4 like everybody else in Edubuntu.
<ogra> libboost-python1.33.0
<ogra> no c2a at the end over here
<ogra> seems all right to me ...
<ogra> powerpc is the same ...
<kjcole> ogra: Hmmm... I haven't checked in the past 24 hours, but yesterday it was +c2a.  So does the version without c2a not depend on python 2.3?
<ogra> must be a problem on your side ...
* kjcole is checking again to see if things have changed...
<ogra> ogra@honk:~ $ LANG=C apt-cache depends libboost-python1.33.0|grep python
<ogra> libboost-python1.33.0
<ogra>   Depends: python2.4
<kjcole> ogra: Then as I suspected, I'd be embarrassing myself by reporting a bug.  ;-) Glad I checked first.  Thanks.
<ogra> libboost-python1.33.0c2a shouldnt be existent anymore ... thats the bug 
<ogra> but kdeedu was recompiled a month ago with this fix, i wonder why you got kig depending on this obsolete lib ...
<ogra> do you have anything ales than ubuntu dapper repos in your sources.list ? 
<ogra> *else
<kjcole> Well, as I say, it's a pretty bastardized system I'm playing around on. And yes: I point to jbailey's bzr repository, and a repository for BOINC (SETI @ Home).  I THINK those are the only two non-Dapper repositories I've got.
<ogra> hmm, i know for sure that jbailey doesnt offer kdeedu stuff :)
<kjcole> ogra: I just checked.  On *THIS* machine, I'm not even using the BOINC stuff.  But I have two repositories pointing to bzr related stuff.  Jbailey's and
<kjcole> Oops: 3.  ~jbailey, ~scott, and bazaar.canonical.com  (I added them following instructions I found a while back at:
<kjcole> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RocketFuelSetup
<mhz_launch> SSH Question: How can I scp stuff into a machine inside a local network env. ?
<mhz> .oO(dapper download is 452 MB now)
<tclong> anyone know how I can get my son's pc games to play in edubuntu. I've tried VMWare, but it won't allow me to create a new vm from the HP recovery CDs (grrrrr!)
<juliux> tclong, have you teste cedega?
<tclong> nope.
* mhz would start a plan to convince his son to use FLOSS :)
<tclong> googling....
<ogra_ibook> oh, have you just been 50% proprietary ?
<ogra_ibook> only the pad was missing :) 
<ogra_ibook> re SSH, you cant if you dont have access from the outide ...
<ogra_ibook> you can try cedega or wine, but dont ask me anything about it :)
<mhz> ogra: hehehe do you know another way to summarize Free as In Freedom Software ?
<mhz> FAIFS
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> ogra: SSH/ today I can ssh to the server but I dont understand how to ssh to the workstations inside that env.?
<mhz> yes, I can scp to the server and then to a station, but that is not ideal
<mhz> ogra_ibook: ?
<ogra_ibook> the same way ? 
<ogra_ibook> i mean, cant you ssh into the workstations the same way you do it to the server ? 
<mhz> ogra_ibook: I can do ssh user@server
<mhz> but how do i do ssh user@server:workstation?
<mhz> having workstation non-public IP
<ogra_ibook> you cant 
<ogra_ibook> you could do port forwarding, have a look at a firewall howto, but beware, if you make a mistake you might open your LAN to the world
<ellfaz> lol
<mhz> ogra: indeed
<mhz> i prefer to stay quiet then and scp to server and from there to local
<mhz> ;)
<ellfaz> so what exactly does edubuntu do thats different than ubuntu
<ellfaz> coz i have both ISOs here
<mhz> ellfaz: mainly
<ogra_ibook> ellfaz, edubuntu installs educational apps, sets up a ltsp server, a schooltool server and a postgreasql database server as preparation for moodle
<mhz> edubuntu = ubuntu + LTSP + educational apps.
<ellfaz> i dont have internet on my Linux Machince
<ogra_ibook> additionally there is different artwork
<ellfaz> i just want to look at the educational apps mainly
<mhz> ellfaz: so you can choose to install worksations
<mhz> -s
<ellfaz> i pick the workstation install then
<ellfaz> i was wondering which 1 to do
<ellfaz> i used to have moodle on this comp
<ellfaz> then i reinstalled
<ellfaz> it was on MySQL tho
<ogra_ibook> yup, sounds to be perfect for your needs
<ellfaz> so when i burn the edubuntu ISO, i pick the workstation install method
<ogra_ibook> yup
<ellfaz> kool
<ellfaz> bs
<ellfaz> *bbs
<mhz> good luck
* mhz editing CSS for ubuntu-cl
* tclong has decided to try wine for his son's pc games. Since they are all educational type games (nothing like afterlife, etc.) I'm not interested in paying $55/yr for Cedega
* mhz BBL
<juliux> ogra, at first happy new year, and at next a question, should a hp compaq t20 work with edubuntu ?
<ogra_ibook> i guess so, dont have one to test :)
<juliux> ogra_ibook, ok, i think i will buy 3 for 75 at ebay
<ogra_ibook> nice
<juliux> and if it donnt work i will send it back
<ogra_ibook> yup
<Baby> hi :)
#edubuntu 2006-01-08
<tinsleyc> Ogra, mhz suggested I visit with you about the edubuntu dapper dailies.  Has he visited with you at all about our experiences and what we have learned so far... basically, that as end users, there is not much we can do with because they won't load succesfully.
<crimsun> tinsleyc: it's pretty late for him, might want to check back in 12 hrs.
<tinsleyc> thanks
* mhz burning flight2 on a 870 MB CD
<mhz> ogra: are you all edubuntu stuff on vacation?
<mhz> or just some of you, ogra_ibook ?
<jsgotangco> give it till next week it'll normalize
<mhz> jsgotangco: hey HNY!
<jsgotangco> same :)
<mhz> jsgotangco: I am afraid a shipping to Peru will not arrive on time :(
<mhz> and it was asked almost 3 months agao now
<mhz> ago
<jsgotangco> whats in peru?
* jsgotangco has a migraine attack at the moment...just plain stoned
<mhz> one of the guys who are trying to do stuff there is organizing an event at his universitie
<mhz> one of the guys who are trying to do stuff there is organizing an event at his university
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> have you contacted marilize?
<mhz> sent 1 or 2 mails,
<mhz> one week ago
<mhz> I imagined things were hectic
<mhz> but I guess they are n vacation?
<jsgotangco> well JaneW won't be back till the 7th
<mhz> I thought so
* mhz has not had any vacations in for or five years
<mhz> four
<jsgotangco> wait
<jsgotangco> she's on vacation till the 9th
<jsgotangco> heh
<mhz> h, betta!
<mhz> :D
<jsgotangco> so let's assume the cape town people will be out till the 9th as well
<mhz> oops
* mhz has just burnt his 1st 870 MB cds
<jsgotangco> 870MB???
<mhz> yup
<mhz> 99 min
<mhz> I saw a 10 CD pack of them
<jsgotangco> that's a strange lot
<mhz> and I just needed to have one
<mhz> ;)
* mhz crosses his fingers it boots ;)
<jsgotangco> oh it should
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> it just has extra space
<jsgotangco> you can easily burn any 650-up iso even in a dvd and it boots
<jsgotangco> (as long as you have a dvd drive)
* mhz doesnt have DVD drive
<mhz> the ibook that got stolen had DVD :(
<jsgotangco> i was playing around with opensuse during the weekend
<mhz> is it lovely as SuSe?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> it just doesn't have the non-free stuff
<jsgotangco> it would have been nicer if the thing fit in 1 cd instead of 5
<jsgotangco> (at least the installer and the base apps)
<mhz> eehehehe
<mhz> yup,
<mhz> 1 cd is better
<mhz> always
<jsgotangco> but a default install needs up to cd 5
<jsgotangco> but the install base is only 1.8GB similar to ubuntu
<mhz> good
<jsgotangco> so that means the apps are just not properly placed in the cds
<jsgotangco> (or the compression really sucks)
<jsgotangco> but its really nice, i pop in a blank disc and k3b comes out
<jsgotangco> even the gnome apps look like kde
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> it even has beagle running by default in the gnome install
<mhz_libre> jsgotangco: ping
<jsgotangco> doh
<jsgotangco> mhz_libre, pong
<mhz_libre> jsgotangco: ping
<mhz_libre> jsgotangco: could you see me b4?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<mhz_libre> I thought I was in a 'black hole' for a while
<mhz_libre> jsgotangco: it did not boot
<mhz_libre> it must be my CD drive
<jsgotangco> that sucks
<mhz_libre> yup
<mhz_libre> :(
<mhz_libre> jsgotangco: gee!
<mhz_libre> it doesnt even read it!
<jsgotangco> can try burning it at a slower rate
<mhz_libre> speed=4
<mhz_libre> I always do that
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<mhz_libre> cdrecord -v dev=X,Y,Z fs=16m speed=4 file.iso
<jsgotangco> at least you have nice 9 more 870MB data discs =)
<mhz_libre> tinsleyc: hey mon ami
<tinsleyc> hello
<mhz_libre> jsgotangco: hehehehe
<tinsleyc> Have a question
<mhz_libre> jsgotangco: but they get not read by my cd drive :)
<mhz_libre> tinsleyc: shoot
<jsgotangco> mhz_libre, buy a 870MB disc drive? hehe
<tinsleyc> I have edubuntu running.  I have PXE'd a workstation to boot.  I have a login screen but now I need to configure users in NIS.  Is there a utility for this on the LTSP side or schooltool?
<tinsleyc> How's the job prospects?
<mhz> tinsleyc: AFAIK, there are some stuff being developed for edubuntu dapper 
<mhz> but I dont remember about NIS
<mhz> tinsleyc: why need NIS?
<tinsleyc> I saw that.  Have you set up a Edubuntu network and logged in users from a diskless workstation.  I tried my one user ID and I can't authenticate. It is my understanding that LTSP using NIS for user management but I could not be understanding..
<mhz> tinsleyc: LTSP (edubuntu) uses SSH
<tinsleyc> NIS used to be YP (Yellow Pages)
<tinsleyc> All I know at the moment is that the login screen won't let me authenicate with my normal user login that I can use on the Edubuntu Desktop that runs on the server.
<mhz> tinsleyc: in the server, try
<mhz> ltsp-update-sshkeys
<mhz> or something like that
<tinsleyc> hold on while I kvm over to that box.
<mhz> LTSP had a stupid bug that it usually faild the 1st two times :)
<tinsleyc> what usually fails 1st two times.
<tinsleyc> the command or the login?
<mhz> the login
<mhz> if you hadnt run the ltsp-update-sshkey 
<tinsleyc> okay I will try it again.  It seems to accept my login, screen goes black, get an x and then the gdm login screen again.  No I hadn't ran the ltsp-update-sskey command.  Do I need to do a restart of anything?
<mhz> tinsleyc: GDM?
<mhz> or LDM?
<mhz> tinsleyc: nope, no restart needed
<mhz> BUT, I assume you followed InstallNotes ?
<tinsleyc> gnome.  It worked.  Apparently it was needing the ltsp-update-sshkey.  Followed the install notes to the letter including nat.
<mhz> so your environement is 'default' (except for the lan settings)
<mhz> tinsleyc: cool! I am glad to help
<mhz> (finally!!!)
<tinsleyc> I still need to figure out how to redirect the audio to the diskless workstation and other housekeeping.  I just noticed when I logged in, the ubunutu sound played on the server.
<tinsleyc> thanks for the pointer to the sshkey command.  I didn't see that documented anywhere.
<mhz> tinsleyc: no audio yet
<tinsleyc> audio plays on the server, not the workstation.
<mhz> tinsleyc: you are talking about dapper or breezy?
<tinsleyc> breezy
<mhz> ahhhh
<mhz> no audio yet for W.S
<mhz> maybe in dapper
<tinsleyc> I am going to the kvm again
<mhz> kvm?
<tinsleyc_> I am now on the workstation (diskless) attached to the server, two nics.
<mhz> oh
<mhz> oh - oh
<mhz> (so you can see it in two screens :D )
<tinsleyc_> Another thing that would be nice is to have a different wall paper either on the server or the workstation so I can tell which desktop I am on :-)
<mhz> (so you can see it in two screens :D )
<tinsleyc_> Yes
<tinsleyc_> You see there are two tinsleyc's out there right now in the session.
<mhz> tinsleyc: well, AFAIK, a server is not to play with nor work with
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> yes, indeed
<mhz> yes, indeed
<mhz> :D
<tinsleyc_> I just launched OOo on the diskless workstation.  FAST!  The workstation is a PII 400.
<tinsleyc_> Printing works too!  Does breezy support locally attached printers?
<mhz> wow
<mhz> and the server?
<tinsleyc_> AMD XP 2200+ 1.2 GB RAM
* mhz has only worked with CUPS, so he has set printers everywhere :)
<tinsleyc_> So have I.  I have a lab here, 6 systems currently running including the diskless.
<tinsleyc_> But a default install of the breezy unbuntu does give you one desktop.
<mhz> tinsleyc: oh, yes, you are right
<mhz> I just dont use it
<tinsleyc_> I am going to be presenting this system in a demo at my Linux User Group this Thursday so it is nice that is working as well as it and the speed is awesome.
<mhz> tinsleyc: I am VERY happy
<mhz> and I know the devels, too
<tinsleyc_> What have you used for documentation?  The skolelinux or the tuxmanual?
<tinsleyc_> LTSP also has a 60 page RFTM
<tinsleyc_> In my research, I found that this implementation broke new ground and was nick name MooCow :-D
<mhz> hehehhe
<tinsleyc_> I though so too.
<mhz> TuxLabs, afaik
<tinsleyc_> okay.
<mhz> it's the docs they are working on (doc-team)
<tinsleyc_> I have that downloaded.  I have been following the document develment.  Maybe I can get involved with that.
<mhz> jsgotangco: could guide you there
<tinsleyc_> where do I post to him at?
<tinsleyc_> Oh, I see he is on line?
<mhz> jsgotangco: ping
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> or, 
<jsgotangco> hey
<mhz> #ubuntu-doc
<jsgotangco> (actually at lunch)
* mhz about to sleep
<mhz> 01:44 here
<mhz> tinsleyc: I am UTC -3 or GMT -3 :D
<mhz> tinsleyc: how long did you wait for tecnocimiento.cl to load?
<tinsleyc_> jsgotangco:  I would like to help with the documentation for edubuntu.  I am fairly good wordsmith.  mhz: I waited a long time, it timed out.  Want me to try again?
<mhz> yup
<tinsleyc_> came right up here!!!  I cannot believe the speed of this client!
<mhz> tinsleyc: heheh, I am glad you feel like that ;)
<mhz> tinsleyc: i need to get into the envelope again
<mhz> good night
<tinsleyc_> It's awesome.  I have some educators to show this to.
<mhz> tinsleyc: i hope they get motivated. I have showed this to some educators too. They have loved it!
<tinsleyc_> Well thanks again for the direction in getting the login to work.  Your are about 5 hours ahed of em.
<mhz> (but I still get no money from it)
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> yup
<tinsleyc_> iIs there suppose to be?
<tinsleyc_> :-))
<mhz> in tecnocimiento.cl you'll find an english summary
<tinsleyc_> the Breezy Release page or another?
<mhz> ?
<mhz> let me check
<tinsleyc_> Never mind.  Looks like I got it.
<tinsleyc_> Let you get off to bed.  Thanks for being here so late.
<mhz> http://www.tecnocimiento.cl/TecnocimientoSummary
<mhz> np
<mhz> thx for your enthusiams and show it to others
<mhz> bytes!
<tinsleyc_> jsgotangco ... are you finished with lunch?
<jsgotangco> hey
<jsgotangco> sorry
<jsgotangco> umm
<jsgotangco> so yeah
<jsgotangco> i've read the documentation part
<tinsleyc_> How can help with the documenation for edubuntu?
<jsgotangco> well currently we're doing the cookbook
<jsgotangco> i just dont know the progress kjcole has been doing with it
<jsgotangco> because ive been busy with other stuff
<tinsleyc_> Can I proof or test it, make additions, what can I do to help move it along
<tinsleyc_> Do you want to put kjcole in touch with me?
<tinsleyc_> Or how can I connect with him?
<tinsleyc_> Who is "writer" on this session?
<writer> I'm writer
<tinsleyc> Okay
<tinsleyc> I was just curious as we are discussing documentation and working on the cookbook.
<jsgotangco> i can email kjcole later
<tinsleyc> do you need my email address?  I am on both the dev and user lists.
<tinsleyc> I think.
<jsgotangco> sure pm it to mee
<tinsleyc> I think I have to something on the irc to do that, which I have not done.  You can get it from mhz as well.
<jsgotangco> okay
<jsgotangco> i gotta get back to work
<jsgotangco> just ping me up in case you need anythign
<tinsleyc> I'll try to get back here tomorrow night.  If you go to http://idahopcug.apcug.org/linux.html, you will find my email address there.  It's no secret. 
<jsgotangco> great
<jsgotangco> checking now
<tinsleyc> bye for now
<carsten> ogra moin :)
<carsten> I am the Kalzium-guy and have a request
<carsten> just in case: ogra_ibook ^^^
<ogra_ibook> hi
<carsten> ogra_ibook: in the kalzium deb in breezy for kde 3.5 there is a missing compiletime deb
<carsten> read this for details http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/3.5/kdeedu/kalzium/README.packagers?rev=451368&view=auto
<ogra_ibook> we dont support kde 3.5 
<ogra_ibook> (in breezy)
<carsten> shortversion: you need ocaml+libfacile on compiletime
<carsten> ogra_ibook: ok, then for dapper :)
<ogra_ibook> please talk to the guys that package it
<carsten> I was told that is you
<ogra_ibook> i think its fine in dapper
<ogra_ibook> no, i dont package unofficial backports for breezy :)
<carsten> you mean: kalzium-dapper supports the eqsolver?
<ogra_ibook> i'm not sure, will look into it ...
<carsten> ok, thanks
<ogra_ibook> its not a dependency yet, lets see what i can do ...
<ogra_ibook> but apparently it runs fine as is ...
<ogra_ibook> whats the advantage of the equation solver ?
<carsten> ogra will tell you in 10 min
<ogra_ibook> it involves getting libfacile to main, i dunno its security history etc ...
<carsten> ogra_ibook: no, that is not true. It is only needed on compiletime.
<carsten> you don't need a libfacile-deb for users
<carsten> beside that libfacile is a very stable product
<carsten> ogra_ibook: well, the advantage is that it is a feature. :) Beside the fact that I don't know any eq-solver for linux it is pretty cool. It solves all kinds of equations, including charges.
<Yagisan> carsten: In my experience, if you need a package at compile time, then that item also needs to be packaged
<carsten> Yagisan: yes, I agree. but that is not a technical issue but only about your personal workflow
<zakame> evening all :D
<Yagisan> carsten: I'm not sure I understand you. If I apt-get source your-package, then load it into pbuilder, and it fails to compile because of a missing dependency, that is a fatal bug.
<Yagisan> G'day zakame
<zakame> heya Yagisan :D
<carsten> Yagisan: ah, if you use pbuilder, yes!
<carsten> Yagisan: sorry, I though you'd build yourself
<mhz> ogra: as my CD drive seems useless to read 870 MB CD's
<mhz> ogra: as my CD drive seems useless to read 870 MB CD's
<ogra> ??
<mhz> i guess I will have to install F2 via HardDisk
<mhz> I remember i did it like that when I was using Debian (2 years ago)
<mhz> i hope ubuntu behaves well in such way ;)
<ogra> there is no 870 MB CD 
<ogra> wjat the heck are you downloading `? 
<jsgotangco> ogra, that's what im telling him a while ago
<jsgotangco> (well hours ago)
<jsgotangco> the only other disc i know that requires its own drive is a GD-ROM
<jsgotangco> and that's 1GB
<mhz> ogra: jsgotangco: I am not dreaming
<mhz> I bought 10 cd's
<mhz> they all are of 870 MB each
<jsgotangco> what brand?
<mhz> 870 MB / 99 min
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-2/
<jsgotangco> whoa
<ogra> are you sure you download the right stuff ? 
<mhz> ogra: I know I am happy with 700 MB normal cd
<jsgotangco> it probably needs its own mad software to burn 870
<mhz> ogra: I am talking about the blank cds I bought
<ogra> oh, you mean you have 870B diaks
<mhz> no the image
<ogra> get a powerpc then, the images are always oversized ;)
<mhz> jsgotangco: cdrecord did not gave me any troubles
<mhz> ogra: hehehe
<mhz> ogra: my CD drive is not reading it so, in order to test F2 iso (65x MB)
<mhz> i was thinking of installing it via HD instead of CD
<jsgotangco> heh
<mhz> jsgotangco: 'Veniac' 870MB/99min, multispeed, Made in Korea, recordable, compact disk for professionals
<jsgotangco> wow
<juliux> happy new year mhz 
<jsgotangco> wow they do exist
<Yagisan> mhz: no guarantee the will work in all drives. they get that size by removing the lead-in and lead-out that most drives use to calibrate their location on the discs
<Yagisan> s/the will/they will
<Petaris> Hello all
<mhz> juliux: HNY to you too
<Lord_Athur> hi
<damnhil> HOW do I enable/disable init services in command line?
<damnhil> where's the edubuntu documentation?
<Lord_Athur> damnhil, you should start searching with wiki
<Lord_Athur> wiki.edubuntu.org
<doug_> Is there anyone here that could help me with a sound problem?
<blue-frog> doug_, problem?
<Petaris> Would it be possible to run 50 clients with a single server, using OpenOffice.org 2 and Firefox primarily?
<juliux> Petaris, if you have enough ram yes
<Petaris> Do you think 8GB would be enough?
<Petaris> Or would more be advisable?
<mhz_lunch> Petaris: afaik, the bottlenecks of LTSP env. is both HD access to data and network capacitiy to transfer data
<Petaris> mhz: It would be Gbit switches and Gbit nics on the server but 10/100 nics on the clients
<Petaris> and two WD Raptor 74GB in RAID 1
<mhz> andso it sounds like you are all set :)
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> cool
<mhz> Petaris: it would be great to know the reality v/s theory :D
<mhz> I have no way to test it like you can 
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Petaris> I don't have that equipt yet, just the small lab, 25 clients with 4GB ram
<Petaris> its fairly speedy until they fire up vmplayer
<mhz> so it would very cool to see those results. OOO and Firefox (runing flash sites) are a nice test
<Petaris> :)
<mhz> theory says that if you can have 48 MB of ram available on each client side and 128 MB of ram per client on the server side, then results of performance are good for norml applications
<mhz> OOO and Firefox are applications I consider over the 'normal' category
<mhz> your hardware looks like lot more than  'normal' and so I guess the performances would be very good on the app. you mention
<Petaris> right
<Petaris> just not quite enough for vmplayer on more then 12 clients ATM
<Lord_Athur> hey, what program can i use to make html files?
<Petaris> damn legacy softwares
<Petaris> Lord_Athur: nano, vi, emacs  ;D
<Petaris> Lord_Athur: What are you trying to do?
<Lord_Athur> isn't there one graphical?
<Lord_Athur> Petaris, a web page
<Petaris> gedit
<Petaris> jedit
<Petaris> I use jedit myself
<Petaris> has syntax highlighting
<Lord_Athur> 
<Petaris> http://www.jedit.org
<Lord_Athur> nothing like Microsoft frontpage?
<Petaris> ewww
<Petaris> There are a few but, like frontpage, they don't produce valid html, xhtml, etc
<Petaris> I can't think of the names of them ATM though
<Petaris> Why?
<Petaris> er, Why do you want a WYSIWYG editor?
<Lord_Athur> a?
<ogra> take NVU
<Petaris> if you can get it to work
<Lord_Athur> thanks ogra
<ogra> why shouldnt he, i packaged it, for me t worked on i386, amd64 and powerpc ...
<ogra> just install it from universe ...
<Petaris> I didn't know it was packaged
<Petaris> Last time I played with it it was a nightmare
<ogra> we wanted it in main, but the security team opposed ...
<ogra> with valid reason ...
* mhz got the Conference Pack!!!
<lucasvo> anyone around?
<lucasvo> I want to install edubuntu on a machine without cdrom drive
<ogra> thats only working the hard way... install ubuntu via the netboot image
<lucasvo> ogra: ?
<ogra> you need another pc with dhcpd and tftpd, put up the netboot image and netboot the machine you want to install
<jouni__m> lucasvo tell about that machine does it have ubuntu installed? is it laptop or desktop?
<lucasvo> it is a linux from scratch
<lucasvo> epia board
<ogra> do you have a pxe capable card ? 
<ogra> or a floppy to make a rom-o-matic image ?
<lucasvo> ogra: no
<ogra> s/make/use
<lucasvo> but I think I have usb-disk boot
<ogra> hmm, thats bad 
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<Lord_Athur> I could not mount an initrd file of a livecd distro, what can i do?
<Lord_Athur> mhz, 
<Lord_Athur> do you remember it?
<Lord_Athur> nobody has been able to help me
<Lord_Athur> nobody know it
<mhz> Lord_Athur: hmmm
<Lord_Athur> :S
<mhz> waht distro?
<mhz> Lord_Athur: which distro?
<mhz> Lord_Athur: and what do you mean 'you could not mount it' ?
<mhz> you tried manually from an already running OS?
<mhz> or the live CD did not boot properly?
<Lord_Athur> a?
<Lord_Athur> look
<Lord_Athur> it's a distro named necromantux
<Lord_Athur> i wanted to change the bootsplash of the distro
<Lord_Athur> but I need to mount an initrd file first
<Lord_Athur> do I past the erro here?
<mhz> and have you asked in their own #irc channel?
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> nobody know it
<Lord_Athur> :S
<Lord_Athur> mhz, i've to go
<Lord_Athur> i'll be back soon
<mhz> Lord_Athur: each distro manages according to its own codes and rules
<mhz> Lord_Athur: and again, I have NEVER worked on my own Live CD nor my own distro ;)
<lucasvo> hm, my installation crashes at: Loading module 'isofs' for 'Linux ISO 9660 filesystem'...
<lucasvo> 92%
<jouni__m> lucasvo argh :(
<mhz> Lord_Athur: honestly, with lots of sugar on top, I truly dont understand what you are trying to do, jumping from one distro to another every day or hour, so I hardly understand what you expect from us, people who are trying to improve Edubuntu and Ubuntu related issues. Of course, I hope I can help you one day when I start working on making live CDs or metadistros, but before that, I have no clue.
<Lord_Athur> mhz, 
<Lord_Athur> an initrd file can be found in every distro
<mhz> yes
<Lord_Athur> then 
<Lord_Athur> I only want to mount one
<Lord_Athur> nothing more
<mhz> i know, i know, that's why i said, " I hope I can help you one day when I start working on making live CDs or metadistros, but before that, I have no clue"
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> then
<mhz> and also, I made 2 questions before
<Lord_Athur> don't you want to see the error
<mhz> Lord_Athur: and what do you mean 'you could not mount it' ?
<mhz> you tried manually from an already running OS?
<mhz> or the live CD did not boot properly?
<Lord_Athur> mm
<Lord_Athur> I could not mount the file from my debian system (today it is debian) with the "mount" command
<mhz> Lord_Athur: does this error happened to you with other distros?
<mhz> (in similar environments, of course)
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> mhz, el 31 a las 5:30 un gringo me dijo como hacerlo, pero con el sueo se me olvid y ni me fij en respaldar nada
<mhz> Lord_Athur: do you know what an 'initrd' file does for a linux system?
<Lord_Athur> no
<yvesC> ogra, gcompris 7.2 is in debian now. Can you sync with ?
<mhz> Lord_Athur: did the 'gringo' tell you about it via IRC ?
<Lord_Athur> yes
<Lord_Athur> in the ubuntu channnel
<mhz> Lord_Athur: do you use XChat?
<Lord_Athur> yes
<mhz> or similar GUI?
<Lord_Athur> but it was when i was using kubuntu
<Lord_Athur> :D
<mhz> Lord_Athur: have you enabled the option 'log' in Preferences?
<Lord_Athur> the log file does noyt exist
<Lord_Athur> no
<mhz> Lord_Athur: no comments :D
<mhz> hehehe
<Lord_Athur> jajjaa
<Lord_Athur> mhz, los gringos no se rien! les digo "jaja" y no cahan q es eso
<Lord_Athur> xD
<mhz> :)
<Lord_Athur> this was only a coment
<Lord_Athur> :D
<mhz> well, from their perspective, we don
<mhz> t laugh
<mhz> when they say 'heheheh'
<Lord_Athur> jejeje
#edubuntu 2007-01-01
<pygi> hello everyone
<pygi> and well ...
<pygi> happy new year, I wish you all the best
<cbx33> highvoltage, do you know of a nice photo slide show prog for linux?
<highvoltage> cbx33: I used to use quickshow, but it went defunct
<cbx33> :(
<highvoltage> I use that default thingy in ubuntu these days
<cbx33> glslideshow, the screen saver is quite nice
<cbx33> but seems a little broken in which images it uses from a folder
<highvoltage> eye of gnome
<cbx33> I suppose I could write a new one......but I don't have the time
<cbx33> yeh that ones ok....but does it do nice transitions between images
* cbx33 is after a little bling here ;)
<highvoltage> ah I see
<cbx33> you seen those photo frames that are digital
<cbx33> and fade nicely between photos
<cbx33> well....I wanted to use an old laptop to make a big version
<cbx33> but I'm struggling to find a nice image slideshow in linux
<juliux> happy new year highvoltage cbx33
<cbx33> happy new year juliux
<highvoltage> you too juliux!
<highvoltage> hope this year turns out fantastic for everyone in some way
<Thecryptic> Hi there!
<highvoltage> hi Thecryptic. happy new year.
<Thecryptic> thanks. Happy new year for you and all also.
<Thecryptic> I have a question
<Thecryptic> I have got an old Pentium III with Edubuntu installed and working fine. Now i would like to send to the third world
<Thecryptic> But...
<Thecryptic> All the sites I've visited begin by formatting the hard disk and install Windows to make the people learn MS - office.
<Thecryptic> Anyone knows about a site to help the third world with Edubuntu?
<Thecryptic> hello?
<rockprincess> Happy New Year @all in #edubuntu! :)
<cbx33> hey rockprincess
<rockprincess> hey pete!
<rockprincess> cbx33: did you have a good time last night?
<cbx33> hehe yeh
<cbx33> you?
<rockprincess> hmm mine was pretty crap...
<cbx33> awww
<rockprincess> just the wrong kind of people....too many weirdos...you know?
<cbx33> yeh i know
<cbx33> you went out somewhere?
<rockprincess> yeah i went to a party where i only knew one person and that was my best friend.....and the other were just a drunken pack and pretty extrovert...
<rockprincess> and it took me 1 1/2 hours to get home :|
<cbx33> yikes
<rockprincess> whatever i was never really a fan of new years celebrations, so i should care less....
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> me neither
<rockprincess> believe it or not, but i have already 61% of that bbc documentary "the codebreakers"
<stgraber> it's quite a good documentary IIRC
<cbx33> cool
<rockprincess> stgraber: yeah i have it as an ogg file but now i'm going for the iso dvd file  :D
<stgraber> here I have the m4v version, I didn't know that they published a DVD quality one
<bddebian> Happy New Year!
<cbx33> happy new year bddebian
<bddebian> Heya cbx33
<rockprincess> stgraber: scroll a bit down....http://www.iosn.net/publications/multimedia/the-codebreakers-1/
<rockprincess> Happy New Year bddebian!
* bddebian bows to the Princess
<rockprincess> hehe ;)
<bddebian> :)
<rockprincess> did you had a good start into the new year?
<bddebian> A headache and a sour stomach.. Yeah, couldn't be better ;-)
<highvoltage> rockprincess: happy new year to you too!
<highvoltage> and to you, bddebian :)
<bddebian> Heya highvoltage
<rockprincess> bddebian: i'd love to say the same about me... :D
<rockprincess> highvoltage: happy new year :D
* highvoltage answered half of heaped e-mails today, so definitely a good start here :)
<highvoltage> nixternal: linux is *so* an operating system :)
<nixternal> now i know :)
<nixternal> i always thought of it as a kernel, thats what we were taught growing up in the 90s with linux :)
<highvoltage> ah :)
<nixternal> omg, im on the phone with my brother and he is trying to copy a dvd with nero and asking me how to do it. i haven't used windows in 5 years, so i am lost :)
<highvoltage> I think of it this way, you can use a linux kernel on it's own in a initrd, with a single application that is passed to run from the kernel line, and it will still work on its own
<highvoltage> heh, I get that too sometimes.
#edubuntu 2007-01-02
<willvdl> greetings
<highvoltage> greetings, willvdl
<highvoltage> and happy new year
<willvdl> woot. you too
<willvdl> beautiful start to it so far
<highvoltage> where were you?
<willvdl> somerset west
<cbx33> i all
<crimsun> +h, i.
<cbx33> haha
<cbx33> hey crimsun howz it going
<crimsun> it goes, and you?
<cbx33> hehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<crimsun> 'lo
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<cbx33> hey Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey mate :)
<willvdl> hey guys
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<rockprincess> hola!
<Kamping_Kaiser> morgen
<rockprincess> hello Kamping_Kaiser ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi rockprincess , how are you today? :)
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: I'm ok I guess...couldn't sleep til around 4.15 am though :( and how about you? ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> rockprincess, i'm going great. i'v had an awsome 3 days. hope apart from last night sleep you have as well :)
<rockprincess> Kamping_Kaiser: glad to hear you're doing well ;) well, to be honest new years eve was pretty shite, but apart from that it was a fabulous week :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> awww... new years should have been great
<Kamping_Kaiser> mine was :)
* Kamping_Kaiser should get back into the contributing thing
<Kamping_Kaiser> had my week of fun, time to do some foss work again
<rockprincess> hehe cool ;) I'm actually doing some research now on FOSS for my paper
<Kamping_Kaiser> sweet. hows that been going?
<Kamping_Kaiser> is it offical yet?
<rockprincess> it is official indeed.....i coincidentally found some great information on http://www.iosn.net/education, as I'm focusing on FOSS in Education ....
<ulinskie> rockprincess: yeah.. iosn got lots of good articles
<rockprincess> ulinskie: i think my instructor wants me to read "scientific" articles from www.acm.org....but can i get any more scientific and official than on iosn anyway?!
<ulinskie> =)
<rockprincess> *can it....
<ulinskie> gosh.. the mere mention of scientify gave me goose bumps
<ulinskie> scientific
<ulinskie> brb.. dinner
<rockprincess> brb....quick lunch
<Kamping_Kaiser> brb ........no food
<bddebian> Heya
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Petaris> hi all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<cbx33> !seen jono
<ubotu> I last saw jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) 2h 11m 40s ago, quiting: Client Quit
<cbx33> damn it
<Petaris> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> Hey Petaris
<rtking> why can you never find edu torrent dvd online?
* rtking thinks this channel is as slow as it's dlable torrents
<cbx33> sorry rtking
<rtking> lol no probo
<rtking> i just said ....
<rtking> wel guess you seen
<rtking> * rtking went to edu and the channel is so dead that the world revolved twice and me entry still shows
<juliux> rtking, there are not many people who wants the dvd
<rtking> why not?
<juliux> i don't know, i had a bittorrent client running in a screen on my rootserver but there was over three weeks only 3GB upload traffic
<rtking> and what did you want more?
<rtking> well i now got the files but wanted to help out btw where you all at in the world
<rtking> i am in winterpeg ca
<juliux> i can restart the torrent just for you ;)
<juliux> rtking, do you want edgy or dapper?
<rtking> naw
<juliux> naw?
<rtking> i have both
<rtking> i used ftp and downloaded everything
<rtking> from all sites
<rtking> i am an internet tech (who cant spel anything) but i sure can dl and fix all issues related to windows but i wanted to learn again --- i am just starting on linux
<rtking> btw i am gain populatity with all my co-workers telling them all about ubuntu - edubuntu - xubuntu and ubuntu
<rtking> kubuntu
<rtking> btw thanks for the offer tho --- i am handing out the cd's i print
<rtking> kinda trying to give back
<rtking> did we just split?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you still up?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
<highvoltage> LaserJock: happy new year to you
<LaserJock> highvoltage: and you too :-)
<ogra> hey happy new year :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage I was looking for RichEd or you
<highvoltage> happy new year mr ogra
<highvoltage> LaserJock: at your service
<LaserJock> I've noticed a lot more Edubuntu support questions and general "What can I do at my uni/school" on the forums
<LaserJock> especially since they opened up the "Education and Science" subforum
<LaserJock> most of the time I can't really answer the questions because I don't run an Edubuntu deployment
* highvoltage opens the ubuntuforums website
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I must admit, I don't follow the forums
<ogra> we need a forums->ML gateway
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well, that's why I mentioned it
<LaserJock> if I'm the only one on the forums then it's a bad thing ;-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: how do you follow the forums, do you log in everyday or get it via RSS
<LaserJock> I log in
<highvoltage> hmmm...
<LaserJock> right now I only look at 2-3 subforums
<LaserJock> see what's new
<highvoltage> I think I'll try to keep track with the forums via liferea
<highvoltage> then if I forget to log in I still get the new posts
<highvoltage> hmmm... seems that I can't subscribe to a certain category, just *everything* :-(
<highvoltage> my problems with any kind of forums is that it's hard to keep track of new stuff, because things like RSS and gateways are rarely properly set up.
<highvoltage> but I'll give it ago again, at least with the edubuntu stuff.
<highvoltage> ogra: if a user accesses data from a usb disk on a thin client, is that data encrypted over the network?
<ogra> nope
<highvoltage> but the SSH -X session is, right?
<willvdl> ogra, happy NY!
<willvdl> and LaserJock!
<highvoltage> happy new year willvdl
<LaserJock> hi willvdl and ogra
<ogra> willvdl, same to you
<willvdl> (highvoltage, I already wished you a hppy one didn't I?, if not, oops...happy NY)
<willvdl> ah poot, happy NY to all in #edubuntu
<LaserJock> sweet, I just downloaded the new vmware beta for intel macs
<highvoltage> willvdl: d'oh. indeed you have. I'll give you two happy new years squashed into one then :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: some of those forum questions have actually received good responses
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> that's why I was hoping you or RichEd or somebody could kind of "plug" these people in
<highvoltage> ah I see
<highvoltage> I think willvdl too, especially since he's working on the doc side
<highvoltage> there's some useful tips in there that we don't have anywhere else, currenlty
<willvdl> some discussion have happened on the forum->ML gateway idea
<willvdl> I'm hoping it will happen
<willvdl> LaserJock, which forums BTW?
<highvoltage> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=169
<highvoltage> eek, URL's with question marks in them are ugly
* highvoltage stops forum basking
<rtking> what is in edubuntu and what is the difference between x k u and ed?
<highvoltage> rtking: edubuntugirl gives you a turnkey ubuntu environment for an educational environment
<highvoltage> I mean, Edubuntu, not edubuntugirl :)
<LaserJock> rtking: edubuntu has automatic installation of an LTSP server
<LaserJock> plus some educational apps
<highvoltage> rtking: the default installation includes a Terminal server, and educational applications that are available for ubuntu
<highvoltage> or what LaserJock said :)
<LaserJock> or what highvoltage said ;-)
<highvoltage> rtking: future releases will also include authentication servers, among other things
<highvoltage> rtking: the default installation also includes schooltool
<rtking> wow thanks !!!
<willvdl> g'night all. getting ready to kick off the year in full by getting a decent sleep
<LaserJock> willvdl: good idea :-)
<highvoltage> willvdl: who are you and what have you done to the real willvdl!?
<highvoltage> willvdl: goodnight! :)
* highvoltage is getting sleepy too
<willvdl> new resolution: try not to turn into a zombie
<LaserJock> bah
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I've added the education and science category to my firefox default pages list, so I'll try to keep an eye on that
<LaserJock> highvoltage: excellent, I just didn't want to be the only one from Edubuntu there as I'm not really that great when it comes to actual deployment
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I think we can try to motivate more people to get involved there. I'm sure RichEd will enjoy answering questions there.
<LaserJock> I think so too
<highvoltage> g'night everyone!
<LaserJock> cya highvoltage
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: goodnight
<edubuntugirl> goodnight, highvoltage. I'll keep an eye out for the MS spies while you sleep.
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: thanks
<edubuntugirl> no worries, highvoltage
<highvoltage> LaserJock: oh, and reel in cbx33 too ;)
<cbx33> hey
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<cbx33> what are you guys up to
<LaserJock> nothing *whistles*
<cbx33> come on
* highvoltage looks extra innocent
<cbx33> LaserJock, btw, how was your christmas?
<cbx33> come on guys ;)
<highvoltage> cbx33: I'm about to go to bed, so you'll have to wait until tomorrow
<LaserJock> cbx33: I was just trying to get people to help on the "Education and Science" subforum on ubuntuforums
<cbx33> awww dude
<cbx33> ahhh cool
<cbx33> yeh I'm all up for that ;)
<LaserJock> it was originally supposed to be just "Science"
<cbx33> i see
<LaserJock> but that whole "Isn't science just a subcategory of education?" thing came up ;-)
<rtking> byte fur now
<cbx33> LaserJock, ahhh yeh I see
#edubuntu 2007-01-03
<bddebian> Heya
<Kamping_Kaiser> hello :)
<bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi bddebian , hows it going?
<bddebian> OK, thx, you
<Kamping_Kaiser> tired, but otherwise good :)
<willvdl> highvoltage, ping
<highvoltage> willvdl: pong
<willvdl> pvt msg
<juliux> hi rockprincess
<rockprincess> hallo juliux! ;)
<juliux> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hi juliux
<juliux> cbx33, you write the wiki howto for a windows dhcp and edubuntu server right?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> is it out of date?
<cbx33> i think there may be a path to change?
<juliux> cbx33, i don't know but it could be that rockprincess needs your help with an windows dhcp server;)
<rockprincess> hi pete! no but i think i'd need some of your help, when i move my edubuntu server to my school.....i'll set it all up at home, but i think i'd need to configure their dhcp server for my ltsp...
<rockprincess> hehe yeah ;)
<cbx33> ah yes
<cbx33> that sounds reasonable
<cbx33> is it a windows dhcp server?
<juliux> cbx33, and i wasn't sure if you wrote the howto;)
<cbx33> i wrote the windows dhcp and the multiboot one....but not the multi arch one
<rockprincess> cbx33: yes i think it is....but i'll ask them just to verify it...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> if so, just lemme know and I'll try to help out
<cbx33> !seen RichEd
<ubotu> I haven't seen riched recently
<cbx33> !seen jono
<ubotu> jono is on IRC right now!
<rockprincess> excellent, thank you Pete!
<cbx33> np
<willvdl> cbx33, RichEd will be in tomorrow afternoon
<cbx33> ahhh ok
<cbx33> thanks willvdl
<cbx33> howz it going willvdl?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi rockprincess
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<rockprincess> heyyy Kamping_Kaiser ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :D
<willvdl> cbx33, sun-burned, pigging out on watermelons and generally just trying not to see what an awesome day it is in cape town
<willvdl> cbx33, when does BETT start?
<cbx33> next Wednesday
<cbx33> that leaves us with...not a lot of time
<willvdl> hmmm. RichEd said he'd get hold of you tomorrow
<cbx33> excellent
<juliux> cbx33, did you need stuff for the BETT ?
<cbx33> um...I think we are sorted.....what stuff did you have in mind?
<juliux> thinclient, stickers
<cbx33> hmmm.....i don't think we'd be bale to get thinclients in time anyway....plus we are tight on space
<cbx33> unless they are laptops
<juliux> ah great
<highvoltage> cbx33: I know you're busy, but could you also put together a story about BETT for the website at some point?
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> before or after the event?
<highvoltage> cbx33: up to you. if it's during the event, then it might be nice that edubuntu'ers know about it
<highvoltage> cbx33: how long does BETT last?
<highvoltage> cbx33: nevermind, I'll check your BETT wiki page again
<highvoltage> !seen Burgandavia
<ubotu> I haven't seen burgandavia recently
<willvdl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microlearning  It has a name :)
<willvdl> anyone know what we should do with https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ?
<highvoltage> update with each release?
<highvoltage> oosh! it's old!
<ogra> wipe it
<willvdl> but where should install notes logically reside?
<highvoltage> willvdl: I may be wrong, but I think there's a newer version of it somewhere
<willvdl> help.u.c? handbook etc?
<ogra> on the gettingstarted page
<willvdl> right. off the www site. cool
<rockprincess> are there .png versions of these covers? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdLabelAndSlip?action=show&redirect=EdubuntuCdAndSlip
<ogra> just open them in inkscape and save them as png ;)
<willvdl> rockprincess, check with the marketing folks as well. they keep alot of current resources
<willvdl> probably under DIY marketing somewhere
<ogra> well, that one is a community contribution
<ogra> i dont think there are other versions of it
<rockprincess> willvdl: can i adjust them because on the cover it says 5.10 (which is breezy i think?) but i have a edgy install....
<ogra> but the DIY page should have the offvicial cd covers
<rockprincess> where is the DIY page?
<highvoltage> rockprincess: you could edit the .svg file, and change the version number
<ogra> right, with inkscape ...
<willvdl> rockprincess, that wiki page is old and scheduled for cleanup. (hnce 5.10)
<rockprincess> ok, thanks everyone ;)
<willvdl> highvoltage, the picture changes too though
<ogra> willvdl, not for that cover art ...
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: google edubuntu DIY covers
<ogra> i aslo think its beautiful enough to keep it archived for public usage somewhere
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Google found 'DIYMarketing - Ubuntu Wiki', at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
<highvoltage> rockprincess: there are other png's on that page too ^^^
<highvoltage> rockprincess: or pdf's, at least
<willvdl> they have a beta site out somewhere. check #ubuntu-marketing
<rockprincess> thank you highvoltage!!!! ;)
<rockprincess> wow this site is MEGA.....everything i needed :)
<rockprincess> is there a specific plugin for firefox? because all svg seem to be a bit out of shape for me....
<juliux> rockprincess, check also the artwork sites in the wiki
<highvoltage> rockprincess: download inkscape
<highvoltage> rockprincess: it's in the ubuntu repositories
<highvoltage> rockprincess: you can open .svg files with inkscape and make changes to everything, including the text
<rockprincess> just installed inkscape
<juliux> sudo apt-get install inkscape ;)
<ogra> right, use gnome-app-install (Add/Remove applications)
<ogra> apt-get ... tsk
<juliux> ogra, she use kubuntu ;)
<ogra> and ?
<rockprincess> hehe true juliux ;)
<highvoltage> knome-app-install then :-p
<ogra> kubuntu has the same functionallity in adept, doesnt it ?
<juliux> ogra, i don't know if there is gnome-app-install
<juliux> ogra, i never tested kubuntu
<ogra> so there should be a menu entry as in ubuntu
<juliux> we don't know but i know that there is apt-get ;)
<ogra> sure
<ogra> but apt-get is a bad advise in support :P
<ogra> keep tight to the tools we provide for endusers ;)
<juliux> rockprincess, is no enduser;)
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> highvoltage: it's 3 days
<cbx33> I can do like a diary for it ;)
<willvdl> ogra, https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams is for 5.10 while http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig is for dapper - correct?
<willvdl> ah, no ogra
<willvdl> I'm off, see you all at the meeting
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell cbx33 the diary idea sounds great, you could even do it on your blog then we can link to that
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<jbrefort> hi LaserJock, happy new year:)
<LaserJock> hi jbrefort
<LaserJock> and Happy New Year to you!
<ogra> hmm, do we need a meeting today ? i dot really have anything to report ... and given that everybody was on holidays i suspect the others havent much either
<LaserJock> that's my position :-)
<ogra> cool
<jbrefort> LaserJock, did you get bodr-5?
<LaserJock> I need make some progress on dynamic-menus and MIRs
<LaserJock> jbrefort: I haven't yet, but I saw Egon's email
<jbrefort> I did not install it yet, but your color schemes might be broken
<LaserJock> oh really?
<ogra> we'll need to discuss the EC policy if you are going for it ... our initial policy was to have more community members than employees in the council ...
<willvdl> oh. good point.
<ogra> im fine with changing that ... but we need to have a consensus about it
<ogra> i.e. all EC members should agree
* LaserJock looks around
* highvoltage is here
<highvoltage> sorry
<highvoltage> time ran away from me
<willvdl> it will do that. pesky time.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: if you kill it it won't run away from you ...
<highvoltage> LaserJock: heh, I'm a time assassin
<willvdl> a time bandit
<willvdl> what is EdubuntuLight? https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLight
<LaserJock> Edubuntu based on Xubuntu, more or less
<LaserJock> highvoltage's baby
<LaserJock> if I remember right
<LaserJock> hmm, or maybe that's a bit different
<coz_> willvdl, a good way to find out would be to download the live cd if it is available... I pesonally think edubuntu is a great version
<willvdl> coz_, I'm more interested in tracking the page/discussion on the wiki in a logical place
<coz_> willvdl, sorry ! :) I get over enthused sometimes and just say whats on my mind
<coz_> :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't think either EdubuntuLight or UbuntuLite are really doing anything
<willvdl> :)
<willvdl> it looks from the page to be a proposal for an xfce base
<willvdl> which would be Xubuntu...
<LaserJock> yeah, highvoltage has some specs for that
<LaserJock> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-xfce-desktop
<coz_> here is my new edubuntu wallpaper I made    http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4566   tell me what you guys thnk
<willvdl> "We changed color sheme to Green. We think its more UbuntuLite Color. Than purple one before. I hope that zou will enyoj staing here on the page."
<willvdl> eek
<coz_> green?
<coz_> mm
<LaserJock> coz_: it's a little too fuzzy for me, or maybe I need to get a new prescription ;-)
<coz_> LaserJock, well it is a digital painting i guess i can sharpen it a bit
<LaserJock> willvdl: are you going through all the Edubuntu wiki pages?
<willvdl> one by one :)
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki/Cleanup
<willvdl> coz_, pretty cool. are you on the artwork team?
<coz_> willvdl, yes i am
<willvdl> shweet
<Seveas> ogra, available for a quick chat?
<coz_> willvdl, if you scroll dwon you will see my name   https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art
<LaserJock> willvdl: awesome
<willvdl> LaserJock, there are a lot of "dangling" links with no parents. lost in the wiki-maze
<LaserJock> yeah, it's a real mess
<willvdl> I shall uncover them armed with a pencil sharpener and biscuit crumb trail to find my way home
<localverb> Hi guys
<LaserJock> willvdl: wanna do MOTU when you're done with Edubuntu? ;-)
<willvdl> wanna clean out my garage instead?
<willvdl> LaserJock, I have an itchy delete-finger :) I am well known in some circles...
<LaserJock> heh
<willvdl> hi localverb
<localverb> I need your help guys
<localverb> I am new to ubuntu and I've just installed ubuntu 6.10 but I have a minor problem
<willvdl> LaserJock, perhaps you would know. Is stuff like https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuRoadmap there as a process prior to using LaunchPad?
<willvdl> localverb, shoot
<localverb> I know it's not about ubuntu here but i am tired of lokking for solutions
<localverb> and I am pretty sure it applies to edubuntu too
<highvoltage> localverb: shoot
<highvoltage> ah, willvdl already beat me to the 'shoot' :)
<willvdl> too busy killing time hey
<localverb> before I install ubuntu I had 2 partitions ...one fat32(for windows) and the other is NTFS(for  data storage)
<localverb> but when I installed ubuntu I only see the windows  fat32 partition (the first one)
<localverb> but I van't see or access NTFS partition
<localverb> any solution ?
<LaserJock> willvdl: hmm, that doesn't look like it got anywhere. It looks to be a spec for UBZ to do a roadmap but it doesn't have anything
<willvdl> there are a few such pages. pre-launchpad it seems everyhting was done straight off the wiki
<willvdl> I wasn't around then
<localverb> hmmm
<willvdl> localverb, where did you install edubuntu onto? which partition?
<localverb> I mannually created two additional partitions for linux one ex3 and one swap
<willvdl> hmmm, the install should automatically pick it up
<willvdl> no prob. find which device it is. e.g. /dev/hda?
<localverb> I am not having problems with ubuntu ...it rocks as all disto do :)
<localverb> also windows works fine and i can see and access the NTFS partition
<localverb> the only problem is that I can't access the NTFS partition from ubuntu
<localverb> sorry >>>>Distros**
<willvdl> just need to mount it I guess
<willvdl> get it into /etc/fstab
<localverb> but the fat32 was there without mounting?
<willvdl> yeah, it's strange it didn't happen automatically.
<localverb> MAN
<localverb> I am extremely sorry
<localverb> but It was out of my hands
<localverb> I disconnected by mistake
<mwalker_mewconsu> Hello Edubuntu folks
<willvdl> hey
<localverb> Sorry willvld :(
<mwalker_mewconsu> I'm looking to pilot this version of Linux for a client of mine. How does the enterprise version of this OS work?
<willvdl> mwalker_mewconsu, edu/k/ubuntu doesn't have an enterprise version as such
<willvdl> the Dapper Drake version has been referred to as an enterprise versionmainly because it is LTS (Long Term Support)
<willvdl> This version is supported for 3 years on the desktop and 5 years on servers
<mwalker_mewconsu> thank you
<mwalker_mewconsu> have you had any experience managing workstations from the server?
<willvdl> personally no but most folks in here work with thin-client servers on edubuntu.
<mwalker_mewconsu> a thin client server would mean a "Desktop" PC asking as a server?
<willvdl> meaning that a number of "dumb" terminals can run off a server. kind of like a remote desktop network
<mwalker_mewconsu> I see so the workstations would use the server as the OS instead of having the OS installed on the actual workstation?
<willvdl> yes. this is one way of setting up the network and is quite popular
<willvdl> the thin-clients have very minimal hardware
<mwalker_mewconsu> lets say I have a server in a class room, can I remotely troublshoot the server and its users from a location outside the networked classroom? Similiar to Remote Desktop Connection in Windows?
<willvdl> yes, you could open and ssh connection to the server over the network
<willvdl> s/and/an/
<mwalker_mewconsu> what is s/and/an/?
<willvdl> sorry, meaning I typed and instead of an
<mwalker_mewconsu> oh okay
<mwalker_mewconsu> now when I ssh over the network would this only be performed via the terminal? Will there be any GUI involved (ie. Being able to see a "users" screen remotely, if they are having problems)?
<stgraber> it's in the planned functionality for the next version of Edubuntu
<mwalker_mewconsu> I see
<stgraber> actually you can only see the lest of processus launched by the users
<stgraber> log them out, launch a command or stop a processus
<willvdl> stgraber, you refering to SCP?
<stgraber> yes
<LaserJock> mwalker_mewconsu: the server is like an ordinary Linux computer
<willvdl> cool. SCP is (currently) limited to managing the thin-terminals running off the server right?
<LaserJock> mwalker_mewconsu: the thin clients (where the students actually work) run the OS on the server over the network
<mwalker_mewconsu> okay
<willvdl> so you would remotely access it like any other linux box
<stgraber> willvdl: there is a spec to add VNC and some other great stuff in it
<LaserJock> so the requirements for the thin clients are quite small ( 32-64MB of RAM, network card) and they don't even need a hard drive
<mwalker_mewconsu> I'm new to Linux, I've experimented with it in the past (SUSE 6.0 I believe) but I've never really implemented it into a project.
<LaserJock> it's also much easier to administer because you only have one actual machine
<mwalker_mewconsu> reading the system requiremented you need 256MB of ram per user?
<mwalker_mewconsu> requirements*
<willvdl> for the server yes
<willvdl> but each terminal requires much less
<blue-frog> vnc functionality is already installed if not mistaken (vino - system/preferences/remote desktop  activate allow users to view your desktop and then use vnc
<mwalker_mewconsu> I think based on our current system specs The most ram our PC's can take is 2GB.
<mwalker_mewconsu> right now won't allow my client to purchase any extra hardware. They've spend the last 3 years upgrading all their iMac's to PC's.
<willvdl> blue-frog, in regards to SCP it is a bit different I think
<willvdl> meaning that SCP manages the thin-client sessions and in future could have VNC functionality included
<mwalker_mewconsu> but I can probably pull this off on for one of the smaller classrooms and see how it goes.
<willvdl> how many terminals do you want to run?
<mwalker_mewconsu> well in the classroom there are 5 student computers and 2 teacher computers
<mwalker_mewconsu> what I can probably do is move 1 pc from another site to serve as a server for this project, but I would still be under the memory requirements.
<mwalker_mewconsu> I stumbled onto Edubuntu just a few nights ago, after stumbling onto Ubuntu.
<willvdl> you've stumbled into the right place :)
<mwalker_mewconsu> I'm creating a proposal to present to the Principal and Assistant Principal and I want to go into the meeting well prepared.
<mwalker_mewconsu> I like how first and foremost Linux is not Windows and so the students won't really know where to look to manipulate the system.
<stgraber> well 256MB/thinclient is a bit high I think because if for example you launch 2xOpenOffice or firefox it won't be twice in the server's memory
<mwalker_mewconsu> second I like the dual booting option (I'm running right now Edubuntu and Windows XP Media Center on my laptop) The ability to dual boot if needed will also protect the investment the school has already made.
<stgraber> but if all the users use different applications or high-memory-usage software it will indeed cause a problem
<mwalker_mewconsu> right now I was just thinking of dual booting XP and Edubuntu on each workstation
<stgraber> you boot on the network for Edubuntu, you simply have to choose to boot from the harddisk too boot on XP
<stgraber> nothing is written on client's harddisk (if you use an Edubuntu server and LTSP as described above)
<mwalker_mewconsu> and the teacher can let the students know which OS he/she will need to run for the lesson that day.
<mwalker_mewconsu> yes I like that idea Stgraber
<mwalker_mewconsu> This system has to be easy to use and easy to maintained or it won't get used at all.
<BTR> Hi, what is the main difference between edubuntu and kubuntu?
<mwalker_mewconsu> most likely the the students will be using the Educational software to supplement the learning in the classroom.
<BTR> But i mean, what can i as a student get from edubuntu, thati dont get in kubuntu?
<stgraber> BTR: edubuntu is an ubuntu (gnome) + education software in the case of a workstation use and a LTSP server + ubuntu (gnome) + education software in the case of a server install
<BTR> What lies in "education software" for excample?
<stgraber> BTR: for a personnal use nothing, all ubuntu version use the same packages so you can install the "education software" on you kubuntu as well
<stgraber> kig, kmplot, gcompris, kalzium, ...
<stgraber> but you can install them directly on your kubuntu
<willvdl> schooltool
<stgraber> yes, schooltool is also installed (even on the workstation install ??)
<willvdl> there are a few institutions that have chosen to run kubuntu in the classroom
<BTR> Ohh, i see:)
<BTR> Nobody in either #ubuntu nor #kubuntu seems to know how, but is there any place where i can get the Drivers for Intel Corporation 82852/855GM vga card?
<willvdl> have you tried the intel website?
<BTR> Yes, i was only able to find windows drivers
<willvdl> does the 915 driver not do the trick?
<willvdl> check if there is a # channel for the kernel or similar. might be more helpful
<BTR> willvdl: Im new to linux, so i didnt fully understand the 2 lines! :)
<willvdl> meaning have you tried the i915 driver in ubuntu? It covers a number of the 9xx drivers. I have i945 and it works
<willvdl> otherwise look for an irc channel that deals mainly with the linux kernel support if there is no luck in #ubuntu
<BTR> Oh, can i get it via adept?
<BTR> Do you have any ideas of what channel i should try?
* willvdl wonders if it is not by default on the system
<rockprincess> hello willvdl!
<BTR> So you think its already installed? its just i want to use my other monitor at the same time, but the "Xinemara" (i think its called), just wont run sp i was told it proberbly was a problem with my vga driver
<highvoltage> willvdl: what happened to getting enought sleep? :)
<rockprincess> haha
<willvdl> BTR try #kernel (I hope)
<willvdl> highvoltage, I overslept :)
<highvoltage> ah :)
<willvdl> or at least I'm going to
* rockprincess has stumbled upon these two excellent sites.... http://www.schoolforge.net/ and http://richtech.ca/seul
<willvdl> schoolforge is very neat
<willvdl> http://eduforge.org/
<willvdl> http://ijedict.dec.uwi.edu/index.php
<rockprincess> cool, what is the 2nd link?
<willvdl> more an ICT in education journal. v good though
<rockprincess> eduforge looks good and easy on the eye.....but i cant really find a project page similar to schoolforge
#edubuntu 2007-01-04
<bddebian> Heya
<Feral_Kid> I have installed a standard deployment of Ubuntu 6.10. Is there anyway to give Edgy a look and feel of Edubuntu without having to re-install?
<LaserJock> Feral_Kid: you just want the artwork?
<LaserJock> hi Pete
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<Feral_Kid> Well, missed out on that response... But I think that I have everything in place... I downloaded edubuntu-desktop, and seem to have got a good number of applications to to go with it... Maybe not a nicely integrated as if I had used edubuntu at first, but it is a start... :)
<willvdl> do we have anyone living in Florida?
<willvdl> http://www.fetc.org/fetc2007/index.cfm
<migi> willvdl, hmm I suppose that more than 17,000,000 people :)
<willvdl> when I said "we" I didn't presume to have fathered the whole of Florida :)
<migi> :)
<cbx33> willvdl: is RichEd around?
<willvdl> He said he'd be in around 13:30 (UTC+@)
<willvdl> which is nowish
<cbx33> ok
<willvdl> want me to give him a call?
<cbx33> no it's cool
<willvdl> just to check?
<cbx33> I was hoping he could put together a quick letter for me
<cbx33> from canonical
<cbx33> formally inviting our pupils to join the BETT stand
<cbx33> so I can send it to the parents
<willvdl> should be easy enough. I'm sure I can write one if time gets thin...
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I kinda need it today
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> so I can send out letters tomorrow
<cbx33> and have replies by early next week
<willvdl> cool. I'll watch the time
<momo> hello there
<freet15> momo: Hi
<momo> anybody have an idea how to vnc to thin clients as lab administrator?
<jsgotangco> ogra: happy new year
<momo> i know its planned for the next version of student control panel
<momo> happy new year 2 u 2
<momo> :-D
<jsgotangco> happy new year momo
<momo> seems i am not the only one without a clue here
<momo> i tried the client ip for a vnc connection but it did not work
<freet15> Eh... I`m try to find some clue......
<momo> hey thanks
<momo> i am currently trying to convince a school to try edubuntu - with thin clienting they can keep the current set up of the machines (some ppl don't like change) - however i need to be able to vnc to the clients
<freet15> momo: http://www.vanemery.com/Linux/VNC/vnc-over-ssh.html   I`m not sure... maybe you can gei me more information..
<momo> let me have a look
<momo> thanks
<momo> let me find out if i can get a ssh connection
<momo> thanks - maybe this could do the trick
<freet15> momo: I have to go home now, if you have any clue or other information, give me a mail<freet15@gmail.com>
<freet15> ok
<momo> sure
<freet15> momo: jsgotangco: bye, happy new year.
<momo> take care
<bddebian> Heya
<willvdl> ping cbx33
<willvdl> need to run. Catch you all later. much later
<cbx33> !seen willvdl
<ubotu> I last saw willvdl (n=will@vc-196-207-41-253.3g.vodacom.co.za) 15m 37s ago, quiting: "Leaving"
<cbx33> Ok urgent request, does anyone have any ubuntu in education type photos that we have the rights to use?
<LaserJock> cbx33: you around?
<cbx33> LaserJock, yup
<LaserJock> cbx33: gtalk
<cbx33> kk
<cbx33> ping rodarvus
<rodarvus> cbx33, pong
<cbx33> rodarvus, how much you know about opengl?
<rodarvus> not much, unfortunately :/
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> ok ;)
<cbx33> nn all
<cbx33> edubuntugirl, tell willvdl, hope you got the email and the attachement
<edubuntugirl> Righto, cbx33!
#edubuntu 2007-01-05
<willvdl> well if edubuntugirl quits then I might as well go sleep
<bddebian> Heya
<Joey_> ?
<Joey_> hello
<Joey_> ?
<Joey_> NickServ
<LaserJock> hi
<Amaranth> sorry, setting something up
<willvdl> cbx33: lovely work on the leaflet
<cbx33> willvdl: been waiting for u
<cbx33> you like it?
<willvdl> I do. waiting for feedback from CJA
<cbx33> ok excellent
<willvdl> it's not easy choosing info for a 2 pg but you got it right I reckon
<cbx33> you sure?
<cbx33> I took bits from everywhere
<cbx33> jono said he thought it looked ok too
<willvdl> yip. My only worry was would the reader see where to get more information which is why I put the website in at the bottom
<willvdl> even though you already have it int the banner at the bottom
<cbx33> no that's a good idea
<willvdl> !seen mhz
<ubotu> I haven't seen mhz recently
<willvdl> hey cbx33, I remember you coming up with the idea of an "archive" for old but interesting wiki pages
<willvdl> any idea on how one could do it?
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> basically I suppose just make a page titles archive
<cbx33> and link to them
<cbx33> kinda like our cleanup page
<cbx33> just put the link with a short description of why we are keeping it
<willvdl> yeah, cause moving them to /Archive with redirects from the original would be pointless :)
<willvdl> (my first idea)
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> when will we hear from CJA?
<willvdl> So you reckon like a wiki.e.o/EdubuntuArchive with a list of all of them. That way they have a parent, are easy to find and we don't need an extra Category
<cbx33> oh and I managed to save money on my train ticket too ;)
<willvdl> I'll ping her now
<cbx33> willvdl: that sounds like an excellent idea
<willvdl> :) hanging on the side?
<cbx33> heh
<willvdl> it's your idea
<cbx33> kinda ;)
<willvdl> ;)
<cbx33> hope it's liked ;)
<willvdl> okie, she is drafting a reply to me with some "minor text changes" - good news
<cbx33> excellent
<cbx33> hey jsgotangco
<cbx33> long time no see
<jsgotangco> cbx33: yeah happy new year dude
<cbx33> hapy new year
<jsgotangco> cbx33: i've been busy towards the end of the year but normalising
<jsgotangco> cbx33: how are you doing?
<willvdl> jsgotangco, hey
<jsgotangco> willvdl: hi! how are you doing happy new year!
<willvdl> very good. you? How's work looking?
<jsgotangco> oh its alright, there are many things to do for this year so ive been busy, but somehow, im getting some time to experiment with linux again
<jsgotangco> so probably before the month ends i'll be doing stuff again
<cbx33> YAY
<highvoltage> 1895 1749
<highvoltage> oops, wrong keyboard :p
<highvoltage> hi jsgotangco willvdl and cbx33
<jsgotangco> anyways i need a new laptop for sure
<cbx33> hey highvoltage
<jsgotangco> it sucks to use a laptop with a monitor
<jsgotangco> ;)
<willvdl> highvoltage, woop
* jsgotangco hugs highvoltage
<jsgotangco> how are you doing?
<highvoltage> busy as always :)
<highvoltage> it's going good
<jsgotangco> i bet the bank account is piling up
<highvoltage> I saw a cool video linked from iosn and wondered whether you were involved with that
<highvoltage> I think it was someting that was aired on bbc
<jsgotangco> well i used to be a software consultant for iosn
<jsgotangco> there's an iosn sponsored event in 2 weeks called asiasouce in jakarta i might be there
<highvoltage> link?
<jsgotangco> http://www.apdip.net/news/asiasource2007
<jsgotangco> quake still affected the lines over here jeezzz some sites are crawling on my dsl
<jsgotangco> SanDisk has introduced a 32-gigabyte (GB), 1.8-inch solid-state drive (SSD) as a drop-in replacement for the standard mechanical hard disk drive.
<jsgotangco> oh boy
<willvdl> cbx33, feedback from CJA. about to send to you
<jsgotangco> CJA?
<jsgotangco> http://www.sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1478
<jsgotangco> de future!
<willvdl> jsgotangco, Christina Armstrong: Canonical MArketing MAnager
<willvdl> jsgotangco, price?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I saw that, it's quite cool. will make laptop batteries last much longer. an they'll work nice as disk space in moving stuff like cars and bikes
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> willvdl: well there's no price yet but its already released to OEMs
<jsgotangco> it'll most likely come out on ultraportables
<jsgotangco> willvdl: ahhh ive heard of her, just didnt know that she's CJA
<cbx33> thanks willvdl
<willvdl> emailed to you. do you have time to make graphics changes? I can do text (and layout to match)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: yeah nand flash will definitely change the way we use storage on PCs
<willvdl> highvoltage, jsgotangco do you know why we have our wiki landing at EdubuntuWiki and at Edubuntu?
<cbx33> gimme 2 secs
<cbx33> will I can try
<willvdl> cbx33, I cannot do the logo moving thing... can do the rest
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> yes you can...I cheated ;)
<cbx33> but I'll sort that out for you
<cbx33> want me to do it before or after you do your changes?
<highvoltage> willvdl: at some point, iirc, there were two pages that were more or less exactly the same, Edubuntu, and EdubuntuWiki. I think the one was pointed to the other to avoid duplication
<willvdl> yeah got that. which one do people use as the "official" landing?
<willvdl> cbx33, either. I'll merge my changes in nop
<cbx33> willvdl: I'll do it now with the one that you sent to me
<cbx33> ok?
<willvdl> perfect.
<highvoltage> willvdl: the website points to EdubuntuWiki, so I suppose that is the official wiki page
<willvdl> ja. also appears to be the one msot linked from. cool
<cbx33> willvdl: done
<willvdl> sweet
<cbx33> it should be with you
<willvdl> cbx33, sweet. I'll make the text changes
<mat79> hello
<cbx33> willvdl: howz it going?
<willvdl> just adding some quotes
<cbx33> ok
<ogra> highvoltage, around ?
<cbx33> hey ogra
<ogra> hey
<highvoltage> ogra: yep
<ogra> highvoltage, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/67390 do you have any documentation for this ?
<highvoltage> ogra: no I haven't. I'd love to do some properly documented testing on that at some point
<highvoltage> ogra: I can see by the bug mails that come in that you're in a bug closing mood. you can reject that for now if you want.
<ogra> no, if its possible to achieve somehow (witout hacking up all the nfs code) i'd like to heave it ...
<highvoltage> I think it would also be particularly useful in full diskless workstation environments
<ogra> i thought you probably know a configuration option/workaround
<ogra> so i'll keep it in whishlist status for now ...
<highvoltage> unfortunately not. I meant to ask on my local lug list but haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll have to find a solution at some point in the near future, either way.
<ogra> how why does shooltool not install ... hmm and lilo and ntp ...
<willvdl> cb33, new version emailed...
<wizzy> ogra: highvoltage: Surely the filesystem code should make this Just Work ?
<ogra> wizzy, the common code is usually more conservative, what we want is a more specific setup thats targeted at heavy access load
<ogra> i was hoping its possible through a config option or kernel parameter ... but that seems not to be the case
<wizzy> tftp broadcast seems like a lot of work, but would be best ..
<wizzy> or is it filesystem stuff ?
<ogra> we're talking about nfs here ... thats way later than tftp in the process
<ogra> tftp should handle the load fine
<ogra> since its onl providing two files
<wizzy> Maybe its not easily cacheable - the nfs root is about 150 Megs, and maybe pretty much all of it is read by every client
<ogra> right
<ogra> but we chould probably optimize access with readahead
<wizzy> Maybe put the nfs root on ramdisk .. eek
<ogra> the probem here is that readahead needs some extra memory on the client to cache the files there
<wizzy> But it is only really needed at boot time
<ogra> else i'd already have done it ... but it raises the ram requirements
<ogra> right
<ogra> but after boot time you usually dont access the nfs root anymore
<wizzy> Maybe if it swaps
<ogra> as soon as you logged in nfs isnt used anymore apart from basic OS tasks on the client
<ogra> so the only bottleneck we have is the boot
<ogra> if you start swapping over the network you have lost already ... netwrk swap is a nice add on so your client doesnt hardlock if you run out of mem, but thats about it ... its to slow to be really used for working
<ogra> its only a seafety net ...
<ogra> *safety
<willvdl> cbx33 -> inbox
<wizzy> Yes. But I have found even 64Meg clients run out of ram if you have lots of browser windows open. It must be X saveunder or something
<ogra> that cant happen anymore since edgy (at least in edubuntu) we default to nbd swapping
<willvdl> bbl
<ogra> in ubuntu ou need to switch it on manually
<wizzy> Perhaps you could try to arrange that /opt/ltsp is kept within a few cylinders on the server disk - tiny seeks
<wizzy> All disk performance woes are seek-related, no ?
<ogra> or cache related ...
<wizzy> separate partition for /opt/ltsp ?
<ogra> wont help if its on the same disk
<wizzy> .. as regular server stuff ?
<wizzy> Easy to test though
<ogra> you just make the head move more then
<wizzy> Does caching work per-partition ? per disk ?
<ogra> good question
<ogra> i think both, depending on the level you look at ...
<ogra> on a HW level you will have it per disk
<ogra> on filesystem level its very likele you also have it per partition
<wizzy> bbl
<pipedream> what about client-side caching
<pipedream> http://lwn.net/Articles/105153/
<pipedream> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-cachefs
<pipedream> err, archives
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> is cachefs in the main kernel tree ?
<pipedream> uhm
<pipedream> dunno
<pipedream> think so
<pipedream> mebbe not
<pipedream> gtg, sorry
<ogra> hmm, it needs a local disk on the client
<pipedream> ja
<ogra> so that doesnt seem to be for ltsp
<pipedream> err, our setup has that
<pipedream> fat diskless
<pipedream> but the disks are still in there
<ogra> right
<pipedream> ja, so not for thin
<ogra> but thats not the default purpose of ltsp ;)
<pipedream> ja
<ogra> right
<pipedream> not sure about highvoltage's specific aims atm though
<ogra> i also doubt cachefs has made it into the main tree
<ogra> so that would be a non trivial change to the kernel
<ogra> well, generally speeding up NFS is a fine idea ... that what highvoltage aims are i think :)
<ogra> apart from that you can indeed solve it with expensive HW ;)
<pipedream> ja
<pipedream> we're switching from thick to fat diskless
<pipedream> so we have the disks in there for playing with cachefs or ataoe or local swap or scratch space
<ogra> nice
* pipedream is in the same local lug as highvoltage
<pipedream> he just asked about the NFS there
<pipedream> anyhow, gtg, bye
<ogra> :)
<ogra> bye
<highvoltage> oh, hi wizzy and pipedream :)
<ogra> highvoltage, hmm, what about bind or move mounting the chroot to a ramdisk and serve nfs from there ?
<ogra> that will indeed require a tad more ram in the server ...
<highvoltage> ogra: yes. that's the same how I thought about it too. Ramdisks are nice.. but just expensive on memory.
<highvoltage> ogra: and diskless fat workstations will need massive ramdisks if you'd want to do it that way :/
<highvoltage> ogra: from my lug I've got some useful links though
<highvoltage> are you familiar with disk i/o elevators?
<ogra> not really ... but there is documentation ;)
<highvoltage> yes, i read about it here: http://people.redhat.com/alikins/system_tuning.html
<highvoltage> you basically trade latency for disk throughput. it sounds useful for any LTSP server, as far as I can gather.
<highvoltage> what we're really looking for to increase disk caching, seems to be to increase the pagecache (as described in http://www.redhat.com/magazine/001nov04/features/vm/)
<ogra> the NFS part is rather common info in there ...
<highvoltage> ah, so you're thinking about cacheing the chroot specifically?
<ogra> ah, elevators are a kernel 2.4 thing, thats why i dont know about them
<highvoltage> aren't they in 2.6 too?
<highvoltage> that documentation is a bit dated (nov 2004), so I assumed they meant it was new in 2.4
<ogra> lets see
<highvoltage> brb
<highvoltage> ogra: for a pure thin client server, I also think the caching should be aggressive system wide, not only for the chroot
<highvoltage> because once the clients are booted, you don't need to have the whole ltsp chroot in ram anymore
<highvoltage> and loading multiple copies of openoffice on 20 clients, for example, chows disk bandwidth quite hard
<ogra> hmm, the elevators only work for the whole disk ...
<highvoltage> ogra: I still don't know why doing it disk-wide would be a bad thing?
<xnp> hi everybody, i am looking for software to learn the french language
<xnp> wich  runs under linux
<ogra> highvoltage, because on a single disk setup you will slow down either reading or witing ... elevators seem to only be able to trade one for the other
<highvoltage> ah, ok.
<highvoltage> xnp: klettres can teach you the french alphabet, at least
<xnp> the french alphabet, i already know the french alphabet
<xnp> my god is that it are there no program's for learning new words or grammer under linux
<highvoltage> perhaps people who use linux already have good grammer and know lots of words :)
<highvoltage> ogra: at least increasing the pagecache doesn't have any bad effects on writing.
<highvoltage> ogra: actually, it should even encrease write performance, since the disk has more 'time' available to do writing
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<cbx33> looks great
<willvdl> cool. didn't have any quotes handy but hopefully those will work
<willvdl> I found that template tricky to work with. presumably scribus is easier?
<cbx33> yes i think so
<cbx33> i found that too
<cbx33> the clicking was very furstrating
<cbx33> kept selecting the background
<willvdl> yeah :) keeps focussing on background
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki/Archive
<willvdl> works with https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki/Cleanup
<bddebian> Heya
<willvdl> heya
<willvdl> Friday Afternoon => Beer ==> so long
<Peaceful> I'm new to (ed)ubuntu -- I just installed 6.10 on an old PIII server I have, but after a successful installation it boots up to "This video resolution is not supported by this monitor".
<LaserJock> Peaceful: do you know what resolution your video card/monitor can do?
<Peaceful> I'm using a Dell lcd panel that supports up to 1280x1024.  I tried booting up in safe mode and removing all the resolutions from /etc/X11/xorg.conf higher than 1024x768, but that didn't seem to make any difference.
<LaserJock> hmm, that's odd
<LaserJock> I would think a Dell lcd would be pretty well supported
<Peaceful> Ya, no kidding.  I was evaluating the previous version of edubuntu (6.06?) before, and it didn't have this problem.
<LaserJock> I only have one and it works no problem
<LaserJock> ah, that's indeed interesting
<Peaceful> Ya, definitely a regression.
<Peaceful> Or new bug, as the case may be.
<LaserJock> we shipped a newer version of Xorg for 6.10
<Peaceful> I suspect it has something to do with the refresh rate it's trying to use, but there doesn't seem to be a manually set refresh rate in the xorg.conf for me to tweak.
<LaserJock> what model of lcd?
<Peaceful> let me go check...
<Peaceful> E173FPf
<LaserJock> Peaceful: well, you can specify the horizontal and vertical refresh ranges
<LaserJock> Peaceful: it's a 17" ultrasharp?
<Peaceful> ok
<LaserJock> Peaceful: do you happen to have the manual handy?
<Peaceful> there's a manual?
<Peaceful> heh, ok, I'll go try specifying the ranges.  First I'll have to find the ranges, but I bet google can help there.
<LaserJock> Peaceful: I got on Dell's site
<LaserJock> and when I searched for your model I came up with something
<LaserJock> Max Sync Rate (V x H): 76 Hz x 81 kHz
<Peaceful> ok, so 76 for vertical, 81 for horizontal?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> those are the max
<LaserJock> I couldn't find the low end
<LaserJock> but that's not as important really
<Peaceful> So... maybe 60 and 70?
<LaserJock> as it's going to try the max it can
<LaserJock> try 40 and 50 for the bottom end
<Peaceful> ok
<LaserJock> 60 is a realistic number so better to go a little below that
<LaserJock> Peaceful: do you know how to put those in Xorg.conf?
<ogra> did you install from a live CD or have an ubuntu liveCD handy ?
<ogra> i'd just try to run from a live CD and copy over a working xorg.conf ;)
<LaserJock> well, that would work too ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra: good afternoon/evening
<ogra> (late evening)
<LaserJock> you're UTC+2?
<ogra> yep ... well, its not "late" but given that i work since more than 12h today it feels a bit late :)
<LaserJock> yeah, no kidding
<LaserJock> I just wish I had more time to help you :/
<Peaceful> LaserJock: Ya, I know how.  Aaand, it worked!
<Peaceful> yay!
<Peaceful> thanks for the help
<ogra> yippie ...
* ogra loves happy users :-D
<LaserJock> Peaceful: ok great, that was the only thing I could think of
<LaserJock> sorry about that, I'm not sure why there would be a regression there
<Petaris> Hello all
<LaserJock> hi Peaceful
<LaserJock> or rather Petaris
<bddebian> heh
<Petaris> anyone know of a way to have LTSP (specifically AD authed users) home dirs unmounted and there local (on the ltsp server) home dirs deleted when they log off?
<Petaris> Hi LaserJock
<ogra> Petaris, there was a spec about it with a patch attached
<Petaris> Hi ogra
<ogra> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-persistent-home
<ogra> look at the wiki for this
* Petaris looks
<ogra> sbalneav demoed it to me at google ... worked very nice
<Petaris> ogra: do you know the status of the network auth bits?
<Petaris> how are they coming?
<ogra> edsadmin is sitting in NEW ... the other bits are not done yet
<ogra> should be ready with herd3 or 4
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> I know this is a scarry question to ask on a Friday afternoon (for me) but is there anyone here with knowladge about pam_mount?
* Petaris kicks pam_mount
#edubuntu 2007-01-06
<bddebian> Heya
<jason> well  i have a kind ez question for you all
<jason>  is  edbuntu good for a day care ?
<jason> and is thare a way in edubuntu  to make a big launcher so the kids are not messing around
<`6og> big launcher?
<jason> oh  if you know what at ease was like in mac os 9   BIG buttons
<jason> thare is no way the kids can mess with the os at all
<`6og> you can drag desktop icons out so they are larger iirc
<jason> looks like this   http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.apple.com/jp/datasheet/software/images/AtEase30J.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.apple.com/jp/support/datasheet/software/AtEase30J.html&h=240&w=320&sz=44&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=2HDKSNfNE-3VGM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dapple%2BAt%2BEase%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DG
<jason> i am downloading  edubuntu now  how duz differ from the other ubuntu
<khusnina> j
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> k
<khusnina> #join ubuntu
<khusnina> logout
<khusnina> hi there
<khusnina> helo there is someone here
<the_5th_wheel> anyone kow if its possible to change the location of the login box under LDm?
<the_5th_wheel> or how to play with themes more than just colours
<blkdg> hello, I just downloaded and burnt a copy of edubuntu 6.10. When I try to setup my ath0 I have a problem with the WEP. Is the gnome network setup tool capped when it comes to adding a wep ?
<blkdg> my passed is 25 characters long in HEX
<blkdg> and the gnome network setup seems to not take the full key.
<blkdg> anyone?
<blkdg> thanks
<bddebian> Heya
<pluto> How do I get edubuntu to recognize my USB touchscreen as an input device
<superkirbyartist> How do I enable PCMCIA?
<pluto> How do I get edubuntu to recognize my USB touchscreen as an input device
#edubuntu 2007-01-07
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<LaserJock> hi
<nixternal> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=51229&PHPSESSID=0d06dc11332341280d5dd4f4e6720974
<nixternal> have no idea wth that link is so long compared to others from that site
<LaserJock> nixternal: interesting
<LaserJock> I certainly appreciate the subject ;-)
<nixternal> ya, don't know why it was on kde look, but i figured it was something different
<LaserJock> doesn't fit with most edubuntu themes though
<nixternal> i don't like the edubuntu text, but the rest isn't all that shabby
<dougb> has anyone here used the LTSP feature?
* highvoltage adds more ram to edubuntugirl box
* nixternal steals the ram from edubuntugirl and puts it in the box that just went down due to bad ram :)
<edubuntugirl> HEELP!! HELP!! nixternal wants to steal my RAM!!
<highvoltage> relax edubuntugirl. he's on the other side of the planet.
#edubuntu 2007-12-31
<seamus123> http://www.disklessthinclients.com/secure/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=51
<stgraber> indeed, I saw some thin clients at interesting price on ebay
<seamus123> I guess still quite expensive compared with buying a full on dell or equivalent low end system
<pygi> HedgeMage !
<stgraber> just make sure to ask on #ltsp before making any thin clients order, there are people with great experience of thin clients hardware who will be able to tell you if it's a good idea or not to buy a specific thin client
<seamus123> Thanks for tthe tip stgraber
<seamus123> appreciated
<seamus123> ~$ apt-cache search italc
<seamus123> italc-client - Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers
<seamus123> italc-master - Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers
<seamus123> in the repos already>?
<seamus123> stable?
<stgraber> it's a buddy 1.0.2 I guess
<stgraber> *buggy
<stgraber> crashing as soon as you try to start a VNC connection
<seamus123> ahh the aforementioned bug you're ironing out ;)
<stgraber> are you running gutsy i386 or amd64 ?
<stgraber> nope, mine is just in the demo mode, other VNC interactions (viewing and taking control) work fine here
<seamus123> running 7.10 (downloaded this morning) in VM ware on 1386
<stgraber> ok, so building an italc 1.0.4 for gutsy i386 now, will take like 10minutes
<stgraber> this one should work without any crash except if you try to enter "demo" mode, viewing screen, taking control, locking, logging out, .. everything else should work fine
<seamus123> hmm ok
<seamus123> so from a client perspective it should be fine i.e. my thin client boots over PXE as it does now, but I'd use iTalc instead of TCM to manage it?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> italc doesn't require x11vnc, so you wouldn't have to change the chroot if using italc
<seamus123> ok
<seamus123> installing now
<seamus123> where/why would you install the client component ?
<stgraber> italc is made of two part : ica which is the client part must run on both the clients (students in my case) and on the master (teacher in my case)
<stgraber> then "italc" itself is the tacher part and is run only on the teacher computer
<stgraber> access is restricted by unix groups (you have public and private keys, the one who can read the private keys is the teacher)
<stgraber> so you basically run "ica" by default for everyone, then only the teacher (admin group) can run italc and connect to the clients
<seamus123> running italc from the command line after installing gave me all the errors about no student comps online and no keys generated either
<seamus123> so looks like time for me to dive into the online manual!
<stgraber> yes, gutsy's package isn't that good :)
<stgraber> my package generates the keys at installation time
<seamus123> available on a daily snapshot anywhere?
<stgraber> I'm uploading a gutsy i386 package just now
<seamus123> ah
<stgraber> http://www.stgraber.org/download/italc-gutsy/
<stgraber> I haven't tested them, they finished building 30s ago and I no longer have gutsy computers except my servers
<seamus123> installing now
<seamus123> LOL it kindly advised me to install the old version from the repos ;)
<stgraber> you should install them in that order : libitalc, italc-client, italc-master
<stgraber> or : sudo dpkg -i *.deb && sudo apt-get -f install
<stgraber> which will solve the various dependency issues (installing missing packages if any)
<seamus123> yeah got round that, all installed
<stgraber> if you run : ica -role teacher
<stgraber> and then : italc
<stgraber> you should have the teacher UI
<seamus123> hmm ran that command but nothing happened
<stgraber> ica -role teach is some kind of daemon so will only stop when it crashes
<stgraber> s/teach/teacher/
<stgraber> so just start this one in a console and open another to run : italc
<seamus123> ok
<seamus123> Ahh there's the QT goodness ;) LOL
<seamus123> Reminds me (lovingly) of Amarok!
<stgraber> you can run : "ica -noshm -ivsport 10000 -isdport 11000" on the client
<seamus123> so I need these three packages also installed on my thin client right? (well perhaps not the master one)
<stgraber> then create a classroom and add a new client with : 127.0.0.1:10000 as address
<seamus123> ah - you pre-empted me
<stgraber> nope, you just need them on the server, nothing to install in the chroot
<stgraber> as the gnome session you see on the client is the gnome installed on the server, only low-level things are installed in the chroot (initscripts, some system binaries and X basically)
<seamus123> sorry, ica -noshm -ivsport 10000 -isdport 11000 needs to be run on the server right, not the thin client?
<seamus123> thinclient didn't recognise the ica command when I attempted it
<stgraber> try opening a gnome-terminal on the thin client (virtual in your case) and run the ica thing, it should work
<seamus123> Hmm that's what I did
<seamus123> got this:
<seamus123> Unrecognised commmandline-argument -sdport
<seamus123> ahh typo!!
<seamus123> my bad
<stgraber> :)
<seamus123> ok ran that anda dded the classroom on the same address in classroom manager
<seamus123> I've added the classroom
<seamus123> do I manually need to add the computer?
<seamus123> or should it be able to see it?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> you have to add it by hand, address = 127.0.0.1:10000
<stgraber> I have some scripts here that generates the config file automatically but that's for the next version of the package
<seamus123> ok - added, but it says host unreachable
<seamus123> hmm
<seamus123> actually it's seeing itself again
<seamus123> perhaps I entered the wrong IP for thinclient
<seamus123> double chekcing
<stgraber> did you specify 127.0.0.1:10000 (not the :10000 which is the ivsport of the client)
<stgraber> s/not/note/
 * stgraber is doing more and more typos ... looks like it's time to consider going to bed :)
<seamus123> hmm I added a classroom with address of "127.0.0.1:10000"
<seamus123> and then added a computer to the classroom with the same address
<stgraber> ok, you could have called your classroom any other name, it doesn't matter. Though it's strange you don't see the client as it should be listening on :10000
<stgraber> but as I said I haven't tried on Gutsy (7.10), maybe the fixes I did for Hardy (8.04) broke the VNC part for Gutsy (QT version change and funny things like that)
<seamus123> $ ica -role teacher
<seamus123> [warning] isdConnection::readFromServer(): connection failed: 0
<seamus123> [warning] demoServer::updaterThread::run(): could not connect to local IVS!
<seamus123> [warning] isdConnection::open(): unable to connect to server on client 127.0.0.1
<seamus123> [warning] demoServer::updaterThread::run(): could not connect to local IVS!
<seamus123> [warning] QProcess: Destroyed while process is still running.
<stgraber> hmm, yes it looks like either some kind of safe guard (as it thinks you are going to enter a loop) or a bug in QT ...
<seamus123> I think it could be weirdism with the VM IP's to be honest
<seamus123> on the thin client I have two IP:
<stgraber> it's something I'll have to investigate (as I have a test classroom using it on Gutsy), but hmm, it's bed time here :)
<seamus123> 172.16.42.129.
<seamus123> and 192.168.0.254
<seamus123> when I enter both of those into italc as the client IP it only shows the master screen
<seamus123> not the thin client
<stgraber> and adding :10000 doesn't help I guess ? (without any specified port number, it means you own ica which then shows your own screen)
<seamus123> http://asksanta.co.nz/italc.png
<seamus123> ha! Just looked at your homepage - I was actually viewing this on the w/e when I was searching for Ubuntu teacher tools!
<seamus123> and now I'm talkig to you! how v. cool
<seamus123> I was actually trying to go to switzerland for 2008
<seamus123> biut was dependent on my wife getting a job as a dentist there
<seamus123> SSO.ch helped, but didn't eventuate in the end :()
<seamus123> would have loved to have spent a year there!
<stgraber> hmm, maybe just try to close italc and open it again
<stgraber> in case it's one of those weird config thing I already had (their XML handler isn't so good actually)
<seamus123> yeah same issue - restarted italc, sees the two comps (different IP) but both showing the master screen
<seamus123> will put it down to the VM trickery
<seamus123> shame, looks like a good app and I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it!
<seamus123> YOu say it will be bundled in place of TCM in hardy?
<stgraber> yes
<seamus123> v.good!
<stgraber> TCM is unmaintained since feisty (7.04) (Pete is lacking of time), so we preferred to choose an already existing tool and integrating it rather than writting our own
<seamus123> understandable
<pygi> forgive me, but what will be in instead of TCM?:P
<pygi> (I didn't listen :P)
<stgraber> italc
<pygi> somebody inform me of what that is :)
<stgraber> http://italc.sf.net
<stgraber> an existing tool done in C++ and using QT, running on both Windows and Linux (MacOS is on the roadmap)
<pygi> well, seems more mature then TCM for sure :p
<stgraber> not hard :)
<pygi> weird UI tho
<pygi> yea, that's why I said it :p
<stgraber> yes, that's a Windows-like UI done using QT ... ogra hates it and so do I :)
<pygi> stgraber, fork and write new UI :p
<stgraber> I'll try to make it a bit more Linux friendly :) (we already turned of some help balloons which were really annoying)
<stgraber> hmm, I'm not good at QT neither am I at C++
<pygi> you learn =)
<stgraber> I'm more a python/gtk guy ...
<seamus123> would it be possible to change the GUI to be more gnome like?
<pygi> stgraber, split the backend part, bind it in python, and create pygtk interface =)
<pygi> seamus123, just discussing :P
<pygi> but in theory, hard
<stgraber> well, that would mean moving from QT to GTK which isn't really easy
<seamus123> ko
<seamus123> ok
<stgraber> and our goal was to patch an upstream release, but with patch <80% of the code :)
<pygi> :P
<stgraber> it's QT thing everywhere in his code, so that would mean a really massive rewrite
<stgraber> he's moving some part of the code into a library, so maybe one day ...
<pygi> this UI seems really bad :-/
<pygi> it's like ... designed for a computer, instead of a user
<stgraber> yes, and there are some funny bugs like huge UTF-8 misdetection (funny when you have First/Last name with special chars in them)
<pygi> it's not QT that's problem IMHO ... UI itself is the problem ;P
<stgraber> it's done for Windows users
<seamus123> LOL
<stgraber> and most Windows tools like italc have UI really similar to italc's
<stgraber> (I have GenevaLogic's Vision or NetOP school in mind)
<pygi> yup, saw NetOp
<pygi> NetOp is nicer then this tho
<pygi> stgraber, why dont you take over that tool we had?
<stgraber> I'm spending 90% of my free time working on the Ubuntu QA website
<pygi> ah, no idea what that is yet so ... :P
<stgraber> so I have done a reworked version of TCM handling VNC in a better way, working with screenshots for preview and so on, but it's still the usual problem, we would need someone to work on that :)
<stgraber> and using italc make integration in schools easier as some of them are already using it on Windows
<pygi> and using italc makes users cry :P
<stgraber> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org for instance, that's the ISO Testing tracker
<pygi> ah, I know that, yes
<pygi> nice work on that
<stgraber> or http://iso.test.stgraber.org for the version I'm currently working on (with a uhm... huge todolist)
<pygi> btw. django, turbogears, what?
<stgraber> drupal
<pygi> joy ;P
<pygi> php :)
<pygi> you can do such evil things out of php? :P
<pygi> how? :)
<pygi> ergh, I meant drupal
<stgraber> yes, you can :)
<stgraber> but it doesn't use much drupal functions except for the user management part :)
<pygi> :P
<pygi> thought so :)
 * pygi wonders how easy would it be to do a rails/merb prototype of the same
<pygi> not too hard if I had the template, I suck at css and stuff :P
<stgraber> so do I, that's why we love the ubuntu-art guys and the official ubuntu theme :)
<pygi> :D
<pygi> stgraber, you know at least a tiny bit of ruby?
<pygi> we could try to prototype new version there if your version is not ready :)
<stgraber> well, the new version is to be released next week :) (should be on-line by the 10th)
<pygi> we can do it in 3 days :P
<pygi> so it's faster :p
<pygi> (just a joke ... you're rocking ;))
<stgraber> if I didn't have to do it in php at the first place, I would certainly have done it in python or eventually ruby (I don't know if Canonical's sysadmin like ruby but they surely hate php :))
<pygi> why did you had to do it in php? :p
<stgraber> because I was doing it at school while my classmates were studying php
<pygi> :D :D :D :D :D
<pygi> nice :P
<pygi> well, once new release is out we can talk about porting to ruby :)
<pygi> (or python, but I'm learning ruby now so it's more fun :P)
<pygi> now time to go to sleep, I gotta get up in 3.5 hours
<pygi> happy new year :)
<stgraber> hehe, so do I ... CET time ..
<stgraber> happy new year to you to
<pygi> yup xD
<pygi> 2:21AM :p
<stgraber> yeah
<pygi> haha :D
<seamus123> well, new's year is only 10hrs away for me!
<pygi> good night :)
<seamus123> NZST!
<pygi> seamus123, go party :P
<seamus123> you too - enjoy
<pygi> or write us a new tool supported on all major platforms :p
 * pygi is out
<stgraber> :)
 * stgraber too
<seamus123> thanks again for your help
<subopt> Where can i find the detailed package listings for edubuntu?
#edubuntu 2008-01-01
<poonanaani> you know wut?
<poonanaani> i hate kids
<poonanaani> bye
<Dante123> looking for open source programmers to help with an educational project
<pygi> Happy New Year everyone!
<Dante124>  Hi All,  If anyone has vMac emulator working, youcan use this file with it and see a working copy of the spellingprogram that was developed for old macs but hopefully an improved open source version emerges http://spellinator.wiki.sourceforge.net/space/showimage/hfs30M.DSK.tar.gz   Your help is appreciated with this project.
<johnny> this is not the place for you to advertise your projects
<Dante124> A holding place for information on the project can be found here:
<Dante124> http://sourceforge.net/projects/spellinator
<Dante124> Here is the link to other files of interest related to this project:
<Dante124>  http://spellinator.wiki.sourceforge.net/space/filelist
<johnny> you're just spamming now
<Dante124> Any help or direction with this project is appreciated.  Thanks!
<johnny> you'd have better luck starting up your own page, writing it all there
<johnny> and then asking folks who are specifically intersted
<johnny> most of the people here aren't programmers as far as i've seen
<johnny> do you even have rights to distribute that program?
<johnny> the best help would be for you to learn programming and start making it :)
<Dante124> FYI. Johnny.  My friend and I made the program in the early 90's.  I'd like to see it live again.  It is open source project now.  And, I have listed in on the launchpad.  So don't get your knickers in a knot.
<pygi> Dante124, please take this somewhere else
<pygi> thanks
<Dante124> What is the purpose of the chat then if not to discuss educational software/projects?
<kgoetz> the purpose of #edubuntu is to provide help with edubuntu
<kgoetz> not random startup software projects
<Dante124> okay fine.  Is there another irc chat better suited to this discussion?
#edubuntu 2008-01-02
<dtrask> Happy New Year everyone!
<kgoetz> :)
<juliux> happy new year
<dorka> Hi ogra!
<dorka> I can't remember how can I do to convert a ubuntu pc in an edubuntu server, could you tell me brefly how can I do it? thank you
<pygi> Pricey, dont you think one of you is enough? :)
 * Pricey points pygi to latest line
<ogra> dorka, install edubuntu-desktop and if you want ltsp use the instructions from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
<dorka> ogra, ok, thank you
<dorka> ogra, but is edubuntu-desktop necessary ?
<ogra> if you want to convert it to edubuntu, yes
<ogra> if you only want ltsp you dont need it
<dorka> ok, thanks
<bddebian> Heya
<RichEd> anestis: please join #educonlinux
<anestis> ok
<LaserJock> did we already have a meeting?
<stgraber> nope
<stgraber> not much activity here today :)
<LaserJock> today is the meeting day though isn't it?
 * LaserJock just got back from 2 weeks vacation and is a bit out of it still
<stgraber> yes, according to the fridge, it was an early one
<stgraber> so ubotu changed the topic at 11:50 and back at 14:30 :)
<LaserJock> ogra: you actually here? :-)
#edubuntu 2008-01-03
<ari_stress> morning, happy new year everyone :D
<iMacGyver> ok, so i have 64 bit edubuntu server i created a 32 bit ltsp image, now i need to compile a module (e1000) to work on the 32 bit kernel of the 32 bit image, but i'm hitting a wall, any clues? tia
<Solv> an someone please explain to me how ltsp5 ubuntu detects and sets screen resolutions...I've noticed it sets different resolution for different hardware...and interestingly, the desktops resolution settings (which i would have thought would only be relevant for the servers local video card and monitor) refelect the resolution settings of the current terminal i'm on..
<Solv> that been said I would like to change the resolutions...as for some monitors they are too low, and everything is too big...i had them setup in fedora ltsp4.2 on higher resolutions with no problem
<Solv> currently i just set the lts.conf file to 1024x768....but some monitors have a native resolution of 1280x1024...and one monitor gets given 800x600...even though it can cope with 1024x768??
<Solv> if I set the resolution in lts.conf to 1280x1024...ltsp ignores this and sets the monitors to 1280x800 which looks horrible
<LaserJock> Solv: I believe the xorg auto-detection is used
<LaserJock> I'm not really sure how to set the x resolution
<LaserJock> on a per client basis
<Solv> LaserJock, setting stuff in lts.conf does seem to have an effect...but not the correct one =)
<Solv> well i know you can do stuff like [ws001] and set indivudual settings there....but i don't wanna look into that if the settings are being ignored...so to speak
<LaserJock> you might want to look through the edubuntu-users archive, I think this has been discussed before
<Solv> okay thanks...i'm actually using normal ubuntu....but not many people around on ltsp...so i came here
<stgraber> ogra: around ?
<stgraber> I'm currently working on the Ubuntu QA pages and was wondering if you know when the switch to an Addon CD to Ubuntu will happen for Edubuntu
<stgraber> as I don't think it's very useful to update all the Edubuntu workstation, server and Add-on, if we are about to have all that changed
<msaul> I upgraded a video card, and was wondering if there was a
<msaul> command line utility to reset graphic card info to run X-windows
<msaul> I'm running Edubuntu 7.10
<msaul> Perhaps something that works similar to sax or sax2 in SuSE?
<msaul> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :)
<ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg ... that will generate a new config .... if you omit th -phigh it will offer you all the current values and give you an option to change them
<msaul> Thanks :)
<bddebian> Heya
<lns> Hey all
<lns> Is there a program/util that can limit the actual time a user is logged in in Edubuntu?
<lns> nevermind, found timeoutd =)
<iMacGyver> ok, so i have 64 bit edubuntu server i created a 32 bit ltsp image, now i need to compile a module (e1000) to work on the 32 bit kernel of the 32 bit image, but i'm hitting a wall, any clues? tia
<johnny> and you tried it in the chroot?
<johnny> what happened?
<johnny> i don't recall
<iMacGyver> include/asm/irq.h:15:25: error: irq_vectors.h: No such file or directory
<iMacGyver> works fine, with exact same setup, but on a 32 bit server
<johnny> and youc an't copy the module over?
<iMacGyver> i want to know how to do it here :)
<johnny> if the kernel/gcc matches
<johnny> it'll work
<iMacGyver> i know
<johnny> or should
<johnny> well most people are gonna tell you not to bother with 64bit server
<iMacGyver> but i don't want to have to keep a 32 bit one around and in sync with the one here
<iMacGyver> johnny: why?
<johnny> because there are no benefits
<johnny> if i had th chance to redo mine, i'd use 32bit
<iMacGyver> johnny: really, so how do i use more than 4GB or ram?
<johnny> isn't there a patch for that?
<johnny> or something..
<johnny> i know somebody in here was talking about it
<stgraber> ogra: ping
<iMacGyver> make ARCH=i386
<iMacGyver> is the solution btw
<lns> The server has a PAE enabled kernel allowing for >4GB RAM
<lns> out of the box
<lns> s/server/server kernel
<lns> iMacGyver, and yeah...i wouldn't hassle with 64-bit server, especially if you wanna use things like flash
<iMacGyver> i don't care about falsh :)
<lns> java? any 32-bit only apps you can think of? if not, then stick with 64-bit (IMHO)
<lns> can't hurt, and PAE does impose a performance hit
<lns> for me, I had to have flash, so this was really the only way to make it work 100% (with sound)
<iMacGyver> i have java on it
<iMacGyver> you can install 32 bit java on it if you want
<johnny> iMacGyver, running make ARCH=i386 on the server?
<johnny> sounds like a topic for a howto :)
<lns> Java has 64-bit native plugins ala "Iced Tea" now.. just seems a bit buggy compared to 32-bit java
<iMacGyver> johnny: doing that inside the chroot
<iMacGyver> lns: when java 7 comes out, it should hopefully be better
<lns> iMacGyver, i hope too =)
#edubuntu 2008-01-04
<ari_stress> morning all :D
<daya> hi channel,
<daya> can i find mo for ldm , in ltsp
<Mauricio__> Hi... I have trouble with some thin clients that have a new card that requires the e1000 driver from intel... I have already tested the driver and my question is how to compile that driver into the ltsp chroot... the problem that I have rigth now is that when I try to compile the driver, kernel version on the chroot is different from the server (server has 2.6.22-14-server and ltsp chroot has 2.6.22-14-386), so the make utility complaint that the k
<Mauricio__> ernel source is not installed (requests 2.6.22-14-server!)
<xander> hello peoples , i am new to linux , trying to set up a laptop for my friends daughter who is 12 years old , and they don't want her to be able to view pages like myspace ... i have edubuntu installed and runnin , but having some troubles... am hoping to find someone willing to help me out and walk me through a few basic things on linux :) if anyone can help , please pm me or email ccnhub@gmail.com , thank you very much
<johnny> i don't think you'll get personal emails for PM
<johnny> just mention your troubles
<johnny> or search for them
<stgraber> xander: so you have problem blocking access to myspace ?
<xander> yes
<xander> wlel
<xander> well
<xander> im trying to install dan'sguardian
<xander> but ive only been using linux for a couple hours lol
<xander> ive been looking around on help pages and forums , but im so new that even the directions don't always make sense hah
<xander> basically i just want something simple for a noob like me to use that will allow me to either block or grant access to webpages and applications
<xander> for example , they would like to have her be able to use google talk , but not AIM
<johnny> tha'ts impossible
<xander> oh
<johnny> you can use aim within gmail
<johnny> in the web page
<xander> oh
<johnny> nothing you can block via software on the computer.. windows or linux
<johnny> unless you block gmail.com too
<xander> hmm ok
<xander> well thats good to know ...
<johnny> i don't think they have "parental controls"
<johnny> in gmail
<xander> now , how about restricting access to web pages ?
<xander> was i correct in trying dansguardian ?
<johnny> i don't know.. i've never wanted to restrict access to web pages :)
<johnny> but.. you realize that she'll be able to figure out how to turn it off
<johnny> if she comes and looks for help :)
<xander> yes
<xander> im not worried about that right now
<xander> i just need to set it so that when she [or her friends] type in an address , it doesn't come up
<johnny> yes you are
<johnny> but you're going to have to read more about it on the web i'm guessing
<johnny> as far as setting it up
<xander> ive also read some examples of parents setting up only the things they want the kids to use , but that seems like alot of work
<xander> ok heres one
<xander> when i try to search for files , i get an error
<stgraber> dansguardian should do what you want, another way is to set those websites to point to 127.0.0.1 (localhost)
<stgraber> which will return an error and then not display the page
<xander> oh cool
<xander> thats sounds simple enough
<xander> but where i set that ?
<stgraber> just : sudo gedit /etc/hosts
<stgraber> then add lines like : 127.0.0.1  www.myspace.com
<xander> oh ok
<xander> let me try
<stgraber> save, close firefox, reopen firefox and try the website
<stgraber> just be careful to not remove any lines that were previously there
<xander> thereis nothing in there
<xander> its blank
<johnny> yeah
<johnny> it's fine
<stgraber> are you sure you opened the right file ?
<stgraber> johnny: no it's not, /etc/hosts contains 127.0.0.1 127.0.1.1 and some ipv6 stuff by default
<johnny> then it must be the wrong file?
<xander> well ... im not sure about anything atm as i have only used this os for a matter of hours lol
<stgraber> ok, so let's do that step by step :)
<xander> and when i try to save , it says could not save , file not found , if that helps
<stgraber> go to Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal
<xander> thanks ,,, sorry
<xander> usually im the one typing step by step
<xander> hah
<stgraber> once in the terminal enter : sudo gedit /etc/hosts
<xander> weird to be on this end , thanks in advance
<stgraber> it should ask for your password
<xander> ok did that
<stgraber> and you have an empty text editor ? weird ?
<xander> opens a blank document
<xander> and if i try to save , it says cannot find the file
<stgraber> what does "ls -lh /etc/hosts" returns ?
<xander> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 246 2008-01-03 22:49 /etc/hosts
<stgraber> ok, so it's 246bytes large ... certainly not empty
<stgraber> try : sudo nano /etc/hosts
<xander> k
<stgraber> maybe you will have more luck opening it in a command line editor :)
<xander> ok thats opened a file
<xander> 10 lines
<stgraber> you should have two lines at the top: one starting with 127.0.0.1 another with 127.0.1.1 right ?
<xander> 127.0.0.1 localhost
<xander> 192.168.1.9 edubuntu
<stgraber> ok, so add for example: 127.0.0.1 www.myspace.com after the edubuntu line
<xander> ahh ok
<xander> now just have to figure out how to save lol
<xander> man
<stgraber> ctrl+w
<xander> that does search
<stgraber> oups :)
<stgraber> try ctrl+x :)
<xander> heh ok
 * stgraber is using too much command line tools :)
<stgraber> (and is more of a vi addict)
<xander> i think that did it let me test
<johnny> you should try to get it working with gksudo gedit from the cli
<johnny> gksudo gedit /etc/hosts
<johnny> so you can use a gui text editor
<xander> ahh ok
<xander> cause that didn't work
<stgraber> try the "gksudo gedit /etc/hosts" thing, but I don't see why it would work and the sudo one wouldn't
<johnny> or just gksudio gedit and then navigate and open /etc/hosts
<xander> well it opens the file
<xander> and i can edit it
<xander> but its not blocking the page
<johnny> firefox caches too much
<johnny> clear your cache
<xander> oh ok
<johnny> you might even have to clear your dns cache
<johnny> i don't recall how to do it, but a reboot would fix it :)
<xander> ahh ok i restart it then brb
<xander> nice!!!
<xander> that works !!
<xander> wow thats easy
<xander> haha
<xander> thanks so much
<stgraber> np
<stgraber> btw, that blocks any kind of access to that URL, not only http
<stgraber> so if you can find the name of the various IM server you want to block, you can block them the same way
<xander> wow thats handy hah
<xander> ok one more for today if you don't mind
<xander> when i am in my file browser ,and i go to go>search for files, and put something in i get the following message
<xander> the folder contents could not be displayed. the name org.freedesktop.Tracker was not provided by any .service files
<stgraber> try installing the "tracker" and "tracker-search-tool" packages, that should fix that
<stgraber> tracker is a file indexing engine
<xander> ok and i can do that in the synaptic package manager ?
<stgraber> yes
<xander> nice ok brb :)
<stgraber> just search "tracker" in it and you should find the two packages
<xander> alright
<xander> thats got it , dam this is very helpful , thank you for your time
<xander> im sure you will be seeing lots of me in the next few weeks :)
<johnny> just make sure to read some docs before asking all the questions tho :)
<xander> oh i did
<xander> hah i spent hours on the forums , but they don't always address the exact problem ,and this is much more efficient
<xander> hah
<johnny> also just regular linux resources
<johnny> not just ubuntu forums
<johnny> and the wiki too
<xander> yeah used that as well thanks
<xander> searching
<xander> around for answers can be fun , but i don't get many days off
<xander> so better to go to the source if i can , thanks
#edubuntu 2008-01-05
<stgraber> ogra: You may have received a mail from the tracker about a new build being available, please ignore :)
#edubuntu 2008-01-06
<martin_> Hi, anyone here can tell me how related or not related is edubuntu and skolelinux?
<flubber> hello, does anybody know how to use a belkin wireless n notebook adapter on edubuntu?
<johnny_> i wish i had one..
<aboo0ood> hi everybody, i was reading in the Edubnutu handbook about the HW requirements for LTSP thin clients. and there was this statement : "For using the default, secure mode of LTSP, one needs to have a 233 MHz or better CPU.".. I want to ask what the secure mode of LTSP is ..
<kgoetz> in that the LTSP connections are done over SSH
#edubuntu 2008-12-29
<stgraber> LaserJock: around ?
<LaserJock> stgraber: a bit yeah
<stgraber> LaserJock: Do you have time for a quick ldm upload ? :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: sure
<stgraber> good, let me upload that somewhere you can get it
<stgraber> doh, I really need to make the themes a different source package, 1.8MB for a .diff.gz is just stupid
<stgraber> the .diff.gz is 5 times bigger than .orig.tar.gz ...
<stgraber> LaserJock: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/ltsp/
<LaserJock> stgraber: done
<stgraber> LaserJock: thanks
<Ahmuck> nubae: good day
<StickManBob> !ops
<ubottu> Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas
<StickManBob> !ops
<StickManBob> !ops
<StickManBob> !ops
<StickManBob> !ops | Gay
<ubottu> Gay: please see above
<StickManBob> ubottu: Gay secks.
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about Gay secks.
<StickManBob> ubottu: Bull shit.
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about Bull shit.
<StickManBob> ubottu: !ops
<ubottu> Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas
<StickManBob> Sexy time!
<StickManBob> jussi01: !ops!
<StickManBob> !oos
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about oos
<StickManBob> !ops
<ubottu> Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas
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<joerg> hey
<LaserJock> morning all
<alkisg> Good morning LaserJock
<LaserJock> alkisg: how's it going?
<alkisg> I'm surviving... :) u?
<LaserJock> same ;-)
<LaserJock> getting back to work after holidays
<alkisg> Still days off here... but much work to do nonetheless
<LaserJock> nubae: you'll be happy to know I just closed all the thin-client-manager bugs
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: let me open more :)
<alkisg> Wow... does this still work in intrepid? :)
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: we were chatting about somebody doing some python work on one of the management admin gui's?
<LaserJock> were we?
 * LaserJock has lost a lot of memory as well as hair during grad school
<alkisg> Ahmuck: like what? I've just started this: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/users-manager.png
<Ahmuck> connected with sayboyon or p* something
<alkisg> pessulus?
<Ahmuck> and perhaps a admin gui to admin thin/fat clients iirc
<LaserJock> alkisg: what does that do?
<Ahmuck> let me dig through logs i suppose
<LaserJock> ah, I think I remember more
<LaserJock> I was talking about how sabayon is in bad shape
<Ahmuck> is it fixable or needs to be re-written?
<LaserJock> and so we were talking about generally user management in education
<alkisg> LaserJock: it's supposed to enable the admin to select with the mouse a bunch of users and do something with them. Anything, from clearing the firefox cache to creating a link to the users' desktop
<Ahmuck> alkisg: is that python/gtk?
<alkisg> Yeap
<Ahmuck> kewl
<alkisg> Just learning the staff, but it's powerful enough
<LaserJock> ok, we sort of need gather these projects together a bit
<Ahmuck> agreed
<LaserJock> having 5 different, independent user management tools out there makes things difficult
<Ahmuck> a edubuntu management interface would be nice.  the individual that i was thinking of has done a major python/gtk app, however, i'm thinking he wants smaller parts
<Ahmuck> is it possible to create a master with modules?
<LaserJock> yeah, that's possible
<Ahmuck> based on python/gtk.  though i prefer qt
<alkisg> python/gtk is good, it allows for easy user-modifications
<LaserJock> is python, anything is possible ;-)
<LaserJock> *it's
<Ahmuck> i think that would be the better approach, then one could "plug-in" a module
<alkisg> That's what "user scripts" menu is in my screenshot
<Ahmuck> a user module, thin client module, fat client module, a self awareness of thin/fat client module, etc.
<LaserJock> I think first we need a bit of a spec describing what tools exist, what functions they perform and what added functions are needed
<alkisg> It's a pitty that users-admin isn't based on python/gtk, and isn't customizable
<alkisg> ...and doesn't allow selecting multiple users, and doesn't allow scripting... :)
<LaserJock> well, one *could* imagine patching users-admin to be perhaps more modular
<alkisg> No, a different language should be used. C => python.
<LaserJock> well, you can have users-admin in C and everything else in python
<LaserJock> essentially something like having a users-admin portal execute python scripts/modules
<Ahmuck> flexablity i think is important
<Ahmuck> even if it means scraping the old stuff in favor for something new
<Ahmuck> if it works
<LaserJock> I seriously doubt Gnome is going to want to rewrite users-admin in python just so we can do some fun things :-)
<Ahmuck> and a more unified interface
<Ahmuck> *shrugs*, perhaps they'll adopt ours :)
<LaserJock> they're sort of different problems, IMO
<LaserJock> users-admin is really for managing single or few-user systems
<LaserJock> we want a mass-user management tool that works well in LTSP environments, right?
<alkisg> The kusers tool of KDE is pretty close to my users-manager, except that it doesn't allow for scripts to run
<alkisg> I guess the gnome guys are just bored :)
<LaserJock> so where does iTalic fit in with all this?
<alkisg> italc is for the users currently logged on, users-admin or user-manager or kuser is for all the users
<alkisg> So, not really related
<LaserJock> ok, so iTalic gives you control over active thin clients
<alkisg> Pesullus will be merged into sabayon, and sabayon is for forced/default settings
<alkisg> So 3 different tools are needed
<LaserJock> whereas we need an overall user management tool, correct?
<LaserJock> alkisg: how do you know pessulus will be merged into sabayon?
<alkisg> I've read about it in some developer log/list/something
<LaserJock> since sabayon is essentially dead right now I'm curious if that is really going to happen, at least with the current status
<LaserJock> ok, so I see 3 basic tasks that are needed:
<LaserJock> 1) thin client management
<LaserJock> 2) user management (adding/removing/LDAP, etc.)
<LaserJock> 3) user settings management (lockdown, profile management, etc.)
<LaserJock> does that seem right?
<alkisg> LaserJock: http://live.gnome.org/Sabayon
<alkisg> Integrating Pessulus into Sabayon
<LaserJock> right, that's sort of oudated, though not exactly untrue
<LaserJock> in the sense that Sabayon uses a copy of Pessulus within itself
<LaserJock> but I don't know if the idea was to replace Pessulus and I'm sure right now can't as nobody has committed code to Sabayon is over 6 months
<alkisg> I don't think Sabayon is what admins need... extending or replacing users-admin with a plugin system seems a better idea in my head.
<alkisg> The end result I'd like is: select a group of users, and goto to scripts=>panels=>add the gnome-language-panel for them. Much more simple and targeted than sabayon
<LaserJock> well, sabayon is useful for mass changes and for profile management
<LaserJock> if you're just making a few small changes then it is overkill
<alkisg> I can't see anything that can be done with sabayon that couldn't be done quicker/easier with an extended users-admin...
<LaserJock> but users-admin doesn't do profiles
<alkisg> That's the plugins/script part that's missing
<LaserJock> well, then why not use sabayon?
<alkisg> Because sabayon doesn't apply the changes to the users. It just creates the profile
<alkisg> I can't clear the browser cache for 50 specific users with sabayon.
<alkisg> I can't set the wallpaper for 50 specific users with sabayon. Etc etc
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> that's why I'm saying there's a few different tasks
<LaserJock> I think Sabayon is going to be one of the things we need
<LaserJock> it's ~ 15k lines of code that we probably shouldn't just toss out the window
<alkisg> Could you give me an example of what sabayon could do and an extended users-admin couldn't ?
<LaserJock> what I'm saying is that those aren't mutually exclusive
<LaserJock> have Sabayon be one of the modules in an extended users-admin tool
<alkisg> LaserJock: the 3 tools I'm thinking are useful, are (1) thin client management = something like italc, (2) user management = an extended users-admin, (3) a lock down mechanism like a simpler gksu gconf-editor
<LaserJock> right, 3 is pessulus really
<alkisg> pessulus only has 5-10 settings, gconf-editor has thousands
<alkisg> ...and the 3rd one could easily be integrated into the 2nd
<LaserJock> 4) is profile management, i.e. sabayon which some might find useful
<LaserJock> well sure, pessulus is limited
<LaserJock> that's why people need to work on it :-)
<LaserJock> it would be useful if Sabayon and Pessulus were combined in their code-base
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what to think about extending users-admin
<LaserJock> sort of a hackish thing to do would be to have users-admin look for Sabayon, etc. and present buttons to launch them
<alkisg> I think users-admin has to be rewritten in pygtk for ubuntu, and maybe pyqt for kubuntu ;)
<alkisg> (but kusers in kubuntu is good enough, it just needs to allow for user defined scripts)
<Ahmuck> u need a machine lockdown, configurator as well
<Ahmuck> i'd like to lock all cdroms of machines in classroom a, but not i b
<alkisg> Yeah, a simpler gconf-editor
<alkisg> (or a better pessulus)
<Ahmuck> or add/remove clients and have a baseline for the boot up to decide if it should be a fat client or thin client
<Ahmuck> another problem i ran into, is the thin client/fat client requires seperate maintence of software installation and update
<alkisg> The problem with that is that the clients could be of different architectures
<alkisg> So you could even have 2-3 different images, for i386, amd64, macs etc
<alkisg> That's difficult... :(
<LaserJock> well, I think it's useful to have an overall goal of where we want to head, but then break up things into smaller, doable chunks
<LaserJock> i.e. what can we do for Jaunty?
<LaserJock> nothing? :-)
<alkisg> I don't know for Jaunty... :( ...but I'll have my users-manager ready in late summer! :P :D
<LaserJock> well, perhaps if more people worked on it it could be ready for Jaunty or near there?
<alkisg> Sure, but is anyone interested?
<LaserJock> maybe
<LaserJock> you could write an email to edubuntu-users/devel perhaps
<LaserJock> it doesn't hurt to ask
<alkisg> OK, I'll try...
<Ahmuck> doesn't ltsp build a profile of each machine by mac address?
<LaserJock> no
<Ahmuck> so you would have an idea of what proc/mem was on the machine?
<Ahmuck> ah
<Ahmuck> it's not that smart?
<LaserJock> or
<LaserJock> I don't know actually
<LaserJock> I think not but stgraber might now
<Ahmuck> if you had a basic config file for each mac address in a list, then it would be easy to pick out what machines should be thin and which should be fat
<LaserJock> yes
<Ahmuck> part of my problem with fat client setup, is one literally has to hand edit machines for fat or thin client boot
<Ahmuck> sorry, i think i'm thinking beyond the project atm
<alkisg> Ahmuck: you could use the "like" stanza of lts.conf
<stgraber> LaserJock: ouch, I just saw that you closed a handful of LTSP bugs too, looks like we'll soon get a clean LP :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: working on it. Trying to get a more useful TODO list
<LaserJock> we're down to 223 open bugs
<LaserJock> man, there's just an incredible amount of work that could be done on user management
<LaserJock> the users-admin upstream (gnome-system-tools) is looking rather dead as well :(
<LaserJock> oh nifty
<LaserJock> I think I found a patch to fix sabayon
<Ahmuck> thankfully :)
<crimsun> LaserJock: around to sponsor a main upload?
<LaserJock> crimsun: sorta-ish what's the package?
<crimsun> LaserJock: pulseaudio [http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/pulseaudio_0.9.13-2ubuntu4.dsc]
<crimsun> (goes without saying that the changes have been tested by at least two others from my ppa; this is a changelog bump)
<LaserJock> crimsun: done
<crimsun> LaserJock: thanks
#edubuntu 2008-12-30
<LaserJock> morning all
<LaserJock> well, last night I was able to get sabayon to stop crashing at startup when I edit a profile
<alkisg> LaserJock: how do you apply the profiles made with sabayon?
<LaserJock> alkisg: do you mean in general?
<alkisg> yeah
<LaserJock> you select a user to belong to a profile
<LaserJock> but .... I haven't gotten that far yet
<alkisg> In a manual I saw that it was left to the reader.. And I thought, ok for new users, but what if I want to apply some settings to some existing users?
<LaserJock> I'm getting crashers once I get into the profile
<LaserJock> don't read the manual, that's from like 2006
<alkisg> Intrepid?
<LaserJock> hmm?
<alkisg> You get crashes with sabayon on intrepid?
<LaserJock> yeah
<alkisg> Let me try...
<LaserJock> I fixed one so now I can actually get the session started
<LaserJock> but then I get a ton of database errors and it dies
<LaserJock> to use the profile you click on the profile and then hit the Users button
<LaserJock> then you can pick which users to apply it to
<alkisg> And how did you bypass the first bug?
<LaserJock> well, it was actually a really little problem where it tries to find the orientation (top, bottom, etc.) of the panels
<LaserJock> for some reason it was calling the function without a panel id and it would then crash
<LaserJock> so I just added a little time that checks if a panel id exists and if it doesn't just assigns it as "top"
<alkisg> Ah, in the source, it's python, got it
<LaserJock> s/time/code/
<LaserJock> and it worked ok at first
<LaserJock> but then I got these database permission errors
<LaserJock> looking at the Gnome bugzilla sabayon has 57 open bugs and many of them are crashers
<LaserJock> my feeling is that Sabayon is trying to just do too much, you'd need a real team of people working in it to get it stable/maintained
<LaserJock> this crasher I fixed is probably just because something changed in gnome-panel
<LaserJock> Sabayon interacts so much with the apps that it has to keep up with *their* changes as well
<alkisg> Yes... it has to be plugin-based, possibly with different maintainers for each plugin
<LaserJock> it's somewhat modular
<LaserJock> but I don't know that right now one can pick which "modules" to use
<alkisg> Where was this first crash again? In /usr/bin/sabayon or in sabayon-session?
<alkisg> I can't get past it...
<LaserJock> sabayon-session
<LaserJock> so if you click on "Edit" an Xnest window pops up and it tries to start Gnome
<LaserJock> but default Intrepid for me it just shuts down after a second or 2 and I never see anything in the window
<LaserJock> alkisg: is that what you get?
<alkisg> Yes, the same
<LaserJock> so now I need to figure out where these DB errors are coming from
<LaserJock> it sort of looks like a permissions problem
<alkisg> What did you do to fix the first error?
<alkisg> changed anything in paneldelegate.py?
<LaserJock> http://paste.ubuntu.com/96113/
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> you want to patch /usr/share/python-support/sabayon/sabayon/sources/paneldelegate.py
<alkisg> Nah.. I don't even get to see the database crashes
<alkisg> I see the desktop and then it's killed, but no error logs
<LaserJock> woot, it works for me
<LaserJock> try it again
<LaserJock> I think I had some times where it wouldn't work the first time but if I hit "Edit" again it would
<alkisg> I tried it some times, most of them plain crashes without error log, on 2 of them I got a dialog to sent a .conf file to the sabayon team (but the file didn't exist)
<alkisg> ...debugging...
<LaserJock> it's starting up every time here now
<alkisg> I got something: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-bkaJq0tpTl: Connection refused
<LaserJock> but it's not saving some changes (removing launchers from the panel)
<LaserJock> hmmm
<alkisg> Maybe I need to logoff
<nubae> hmmm u guys working on sabayon... cool
<LaserJock> I think I saw an upstream bug about that
<LaserJock> nubae: I got it to start up here anyway :-)
<LaserJock> this thing is terribly complex
<Ahmuck> yes, is it so complex it would be simpler to re-write?
<Ahmuck> that is what i was wondering
<LaserJock> well, not if you want to do what it does
<LaserJock> but it's just tracking *so* much stuff. My simple test profile where I turned off a couple things and edited the menu is a 11MB zip file!
<Ahmuck> did u get it to work?
<LaserJock> well, I created it
<Ahmuck> nubae: hey, u here today?
<nubae> yeah :-)
<alkisg> I got it working (once at least), but it complained a lot, and didn't save anything
<alkisg> Hm... it also leaves a lot of processes running after each crash
<alkisg> May I should kill them before restarting it
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> yeah, kill them
<LaserJock> I think that's what I was running into
<LaserJock> I kept trying and got problems, then this morning I tried it again (without logging out or rebooting) and it works fine
<LaserJock> well, users-admin seems to not be able to add a user!
<LaserJock> Gnome is really falling apart when it comes to basic user management :(
<nubae> yep
<nubae> I use the command line only now
<nubae> not to mention its totally differenta cross all distros
<alkisg> LaserJock: this happened to hardy as well, users-admin had problems getting root rights didn't complain about it or something
<LaserJock> I see a bug where it looks for user "root" instead of UID 0
<LaserJock> I wonder if that's it
<alkisg> I don't think so
<nubae> LaserJock: it worked fine for me in hardy
<Ahmuck> which is why i think python would be better and modules
<Ahmuck> then you could step through it one at a time.  i am however NOT a programmer
<LaserJock> well, it doesn't really matter so much what language it's written in
<LaserJock> bottom line there has to be people behind it
<alkisg> Yes, but if it's interpreter or shell-based, it's easier for admins to debug the problem and send accurate feedback / patches
<nubae> guess there is some truth to that
<nubae> not every admin is a package maintainer I suppose
<LaserJock> alkisg: I'm not entirely sure about that
<LaserJock> gdb can do a pretty good job of debugging C/C++ apps
<alkisg> Sure, but does a regular admin that exceriences the problem download the source, configure and compile it, and then run it under gdb to see where the problem is?
<LaserJock> they don't have to
<alkisg> Why not? How accurate feedback can you give now with the problem in users-admin?
<LaserJock> they might need to install the debugging symbols package, but they don't need to compile or anything like that
<alkisg> Debuggin on a live system is surely a better way than looking though a crash dump
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> right, but that doesn't have a ton to do with the language you write it in
<LaserJock> I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Python and prefer it
<LaserJock> but I'm not going to just go rewrite every app that's not in Python :-)
<alkisg> Of course not!!!
<LaserJock> alright, I found the problem
<LaserJock> users-admin checks that each user has a login, password, home directory, and shell
<alkisg> I've been an assembly/C/Pascal programmer myself for the last ...ehm... 17 years, so it isn't easy for me to switch to python as well
<LaserJock> Sabayon uses a user that doesn't have a home directory
<LaserJock> so basically if you install Sabayon you can no longer use users-admin :(
<nubae> pascal :-) such a educationally popular language
<nubae> at least it was
<LaserJock> I never learned Pascal
<nubae> and what if u create the /home dir for the sabayon user?
<LaserJock> well, I *think* users-admin would work but I think it would break Sabayon
<LaserJock> Sabyon uses a temporary home dir in /tmp
 * nubae wonders what that would have changed from Hardy
<LaserJock> it worked fine in Hardy with Sabayon installed?
<nubae> yes
<nubae> I remember adding users and making profiles
<nubae> and it working
<LaserJock> I think what happened is the gnome-system-tools-backends changed
<nubae> ah, makes sense
<LaserJock> so that it added in these checks
<LaserJock> they probably were fixing a bug where people were creating users without /home dir :-)
<LaserJock> but this is sort of a nasty bug
<LaserJock> there are a lot of packages, not just Sabayon, that create users like this
<LaserJock> ohhhhhhhh
 * LaserJock has a thought
<LaserJock> sabayon creates it's user as a regular user, not a system user
<LaserJock> I bet users-admin on checks for a home dir for non-system users
<LaserJock> *only
<LaserJock> I wonder if anybody uses sabayon in Debian, it's only got 1 open bug
<Ahmuck> interesting.  i could no longer use users/admin so i simply did a backup and re-install of the os after installing sabyon
<LaserJock> yikes!
<Ahmuck> *shrugs*, it worked
<LaserJock> yeah, I reinstall a lot
<LaserJock> I think I'm about the worst of the dev ;-)
<LaserJock> *devs
<LaserJock> I know one guy hasn't installed fresh since like Red Hat 6 or something
<LaserJock> ... and he's running Ubuntu Hardy or newer
<Ahmuck> nubae: i'm getting ready to tackle the inet problem if you have time today
<nubae> yeah sure, go for it
<nubae> paste me /opt/ltsp/fati386/etc/network/interfaces
<LaserJock> so I think if we got a list of "things" we wan to be able to in user management then we can figure out what app(s) are going to be the best to look at
<LaserJock> I think sabayon is too complex to maintain unless you have some people who can spend some serious time on it
<nubae> whatcha mean exactly?
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: what did you want pasted?
<LaserJock> nubae: did you mean me?
<nubae> LaserJock: yeah
<LaserJock> nubae: well, it seems quite fragile
<nubae> Ahmuck ^^
<LaserJock> it's trying to track *ever* change made to a desktop
<Ahmuck-Jr> u know i was thinking about the sabyon vs python thingy.  being a non programmer it i guess it really doesn't matter.  i've heard various things about python that were always positive.  i guess from my pov, waiting is the hardest thing, and if someone is volunteering to do it in python and the other application is not being maintained i'm always the person to choose the most eficiant route,...
<Ahmuck-Jr> ...which is usually the shortest
<LaserJock> and these days there is a lot that's going on
<nubae> ah ok, gotcha, so limit what it does?
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: what language is your script written in ?
<Ahmuck-Jr> C
<LaserJock> I wonder if it's just not a great overall idea right now
<nubae> no :-) bash
<nubae> LaserJock: it is
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15745
 * nubae can't code C to save his life... no patience
<LaserJock> I'm not sure that deployable profiles is really something that Linux can do
<Ahmuck-Jr> i understand the script, and will prolly customize the apps to my own need
<Ahmuck-Jr> is there anyway to "link"the system apps with the fat client?
<Ahmuck-Jr> deployable profiles ?
<nubae> that would be like using local-apps
 * Ahmuck-Jr used to code C++
<Ahmuck-Jr> 20 years ago
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, not quite that long
<LaserJock> Sabayon is used to deploy "profiles"
<Ahmuck-Jr> more like 12 years ago
<nubae> Ahmuck-Jr: paste me your ifconfig output
<nubae> on the from the server
<LaserJock> I'm just not sure if that's something that Linux/Gnome is going to be able to do very well for the foreseeable future
<nubae> well if they stopped thinking about it as being a single user system, then sure
<nubae> but I think you're right
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15746
<nubae> well that looks fine, so must be dns not getting through to the thin client
<nubae> u got this in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?:     option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.254;
<alkisg> Even if sabayon worked, I'm not sure I'd want to use it. I'd prefer a tool that would let me specify the changes I want, instead of tracking any change I (even accidentally) made.
<nubae>  
<Ahmuck> do i need to add dns servers to the network
<LaserJock> alkisg: you can manage the changes
<nubae> if you want to be able resolve web pages, then yes
<nubae> yeah, it just shouldnt track everything, is there an easy way to limit that LaserJock, or is it loads a work?
<alkisg> LaserJock, inside a 10k-line file? (if I recall correctly the number you've said above)
<LaserJock> nubae: there is some, you can choose what to track and what not to basically
<LaserJock> alkisg: no, that's the source code. The GUI lets you look at changes and tell it to lock/ignore them
<LaserJock> but  the problem is that it has to track everything in the first place, to then give you a choice :-)
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15747
<nubae> would limit crashes too
<LaserJock> pessulus is great, but it's limited to locking down things in gconf
<nubae> if it just did what we know it can without crashign, thats a very good start
<LaserJock> sabayon was designed to let you work with almost anything
<Ahmuck-Jr> what is the purpose of tracking every change?
<LaserJock> it has some support for Firefox and OO.o was planned
<alkisg> LaserJock: so if I want to set a specific bookmark for all users with sabayon, you think I'll be able to do it somewhat easily?
<LaserJock> alkisg: yes, if sabayon is working
<nubae> :-)
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: no, i meant external dns servers.  i'm thinking about going with OpenDNS
<Ahmuck-Jr> but i can add that in the file easlily
<LaserJock> the purpose of tracking everything is to create a complete "profile"
<nubae> oh Ahmuck your server is set to 192.168.0.1 in there
<nubae> how does it even work?
<LaserJock> with sabayon basically you create a profile of what you want the desktop to look like
<nubae> its set as 0.254 when u do ifconfig
<LaserJock> then when the user logs in basically they're /home dir is replaced with the "profile"
<Ahmuck-Jr> inet --> router --> server --> switch --> client
<nubae> if thats your live dhcpd.conf file, it shouldnt work at all
<Ahmuck-Jr> works great on regualar thin clients
<nubae> in my script, and on the server, its set to 192.168.0.254
<Ahmuck-Jr> like i said, if it can break, i can break it and if it shouldn't work, it works :)
<nubae> yet in the dhcpd.conf file its set to 192.168.0.1
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah, so i need to change it
 * nubae scratches his head
<Ahmuck-Jr> or ur saying the fat client shouldn't even work?
<nubae> right, but it shouldnt work at all
<alkisg> nubae, that's not the ltsp server, it's the dns server and the router, so it's working...
<nubae> right
<nubae> right same thing
<alkisg> No, in the dhcp offer the client gets server = .254
<alkisg> So they boot fine, they just don't get correct dns/gateway addresses
<nubae> wait.... his ifconfig shows his server has ip 0.254
<nubae> and his dhcpd.conf file shoes 0.1
<nubae> ohhh wauit
<Ahmuck-Jr> it's magic \o/
<nubae> u're right
<alkisg> That's what I'm saying. The dhcp server still sends server=.254
<Ahmuck-Jr> sorry ...
<nubae> ltsp-server isnt defined
<alkisg> If he enabled next-server, then it wouldn't boot
<nubae> ok... ahmuck, change everything that is .1 to 0.254 :-)
<nubae> right, thats what I expected
<nubae> hmmm, and how are the thin clients getting inet then?
<nubae> with a broken router and dns server
<alkisg> they are?
<alkisg> erm, that is, through the server or as fat clients?
<nubae> no as thin clients they are, which is off
<nubae> odd
<alkisg> Because if they work as thin clients, they don't need dns/gateway
<nubae> oh, well I guess if its properly defined for server
<alkisg> They just connect to the server, and the server in turn uses it's own dns/gateway
<alkisg> yeap
<nubae> mine dont work if I dont have proper router defined
<nubae> but of course I use an external router
<alkisg> thin or fat?
<Ahmuck-Jr> to serve dhcp ?
<nubae> both
<alkisg> thin should work, as long as they boot
<nubae> yeah, true
<nubae> yeah Ahmuck just change dhcpd.conf settings
<Ahmuck> is there a way to target a specific user with a specific fat client?
<Ahmuck> that's the next step
 * Ahmuck booting fat client now
<Ahmuck> nubae: should your script have "peeked" at the default settings and copied ?
<nubae> dhcpd.conf is editted manually by the admin on the server side
<nubae> and the script just grabs whatever config details to connect from its side
<nubae> Ahmuck: the way to set specific users is through mac:add:resses
<Ahmuck-Jr> fat client is still dead to the inet
<Ahmuck-Jr> i haven't yet sat down and played connect the dot
<nubae> did u restart dhcpd3-server?
<Ahmuck-Jr> i restarted the server
<nubae> before restarting the client?
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes.  i did not start the client this morning until i had restarted the server
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'll restart the client again just to be sure
<nubae> yes but when did u restart the server, just now?
<Ahmuck> yes
<nubae> well, should actually be fine now, on the fatclient try pinging google.com
<nubae> to make sure dns is working
<nubae> unless u dont have a dns server running on the server, in which case, choose another address
<Ahmuck-Jr> does dns run on server by default?
<Ahmuck-Jr> iirc, it does
<Ahmuck-Jr> btw,i love edubuntu's icons
<Ahmuck-Jr> google is dead on the fat client
<nubae> then its not resolving, paste me your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Jr, if I got this right, you're using 192.168.0.254 as a dns server in your dhcpd.conf, but you don't have bind installed in the ltsp server.
<alkisg> So you should either install bind or just change dhcpd.conf
<nubae> much better explained :-)
<alkisg> and put whatever dns server your ltsp server has (cat /etc/resolv.conf on the server)
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15748
<Ahmuck-Jr> alkisg: i'm using a default ltsp server
<Ahmuck-Jr> setup
<nubae> k that looks fine, now do what alkisg says
<alkisg> by default bind is not installed
<nubae> bind = dns server
<Ahmuck-Jr> outside of the modifications that nubae has had me make for the fat client setup
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah.  should that be part of your fat client setup?
<nubae> no :-)
<Ahmuck-Jr> bind is already installed
<alkisg> Also, you have a 2 nic server, right?
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes
<alkisg> And the clients are only seeing your first nic
<nubae> oh right gateway from one to the other
<Ahmuck-Jr> inet incoming on one, and thin clients on another
<alkisg> yeap, masquerading
<Ahmuck-Jr> the thin clients work fine
<Ahmuck-Jr> it's the fat clients that don't work
<Ahmuck-Jr> on the inet side.  the fat clients boot fine, but no inet
<nubae> right, imagine u had computers elsewhere on your nework though
<nubae> fatclient is the same
<alkisg> You need gateway & dns on the fat clients (= put them in dhcpd.conf), and to enable ip forwarding on the server
<Ahmuck-Jr> ok.  i wondered about that
<Ahmuck-Jr> myself
<nubae> all this shoudl normally be already set up on standard 2 nic server
<alkisg> An external dns server?
<nubae> any dns server
<alkisg> I don't think dhcp3.conf gets any dns server
<nubae> it gets 0.1 as default
<alkisg> But bind isn't installed by default
<nubae> yeah I know... but what I'm saying is, this is server stuff... the fatclient script shouldnt be setting server variables
<alkisg> Sure, that's correct
<nubae> its assumed that u have either installed bind, or u use another dns server
<alkisg> But Ahmuck-Jr still has to fix dhcpd.conf
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> but he says he has bind installed
<alkisg> So Ahmuck change this: option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.254  to whatever dns your server uses (cat /etc/resolv.conf on the server)
<alkisg> And you'll also need to enable ip forwarding on the server
<nubae> one shouldn't really need that, I think enabling gateway address for the internal nic should work
<alkisg> I don't think so, the packets won't be passed to the other nic if he doesn't enable ip forwarding
<alkisg> (for the fat clients again, the thin should work without any of these stuff)
<nubae> well, there is still a slight difference between fatclient and real fatclient
<nubae> but to be honest, I'v not looked at the script in a while, so your're probably right
<alkisg> I don't know about that, it's your field! :)
<alkisg> I'm talking about this:
<alkisg> sudo su
<alkisg> iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE
<alkisg> echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
<alkisg> exit
<nubae> right I know, I remember not having to do that
<alkisg> OK, back to pascal programming... :(
<nubae> :-)
<Ahmuck> still no connection
<Ahmuck> i'll have to sit down and connect the dots so to speak to see what's going on
<nubae> u masqueraded?
<Ahmuck> yes, i did get my masquarde mask on.  i think it looks fashionalbe :)
<Ahmuck> yes, i did
<Ahmuck> that waht alkisg posted
<Ahmuck> i'm a little confused
<nubae> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowtoNAT
<Ahmuck> k, i don't recall having to do this for the thin client setup.  it just worked, or sorta.  i did have to set one address to dhcp iirc
<nubae> right this is needed only if you are running external clients, which fatclient kinda is
<nubae> actually paste me /opt/ltsp/fati386/etc/resolv.conf please
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15749
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15750
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15751
<Ahmuck> sorry for all the names, i have to walk from my office to the classroom
<nubae> k its detecting your nameserver as 192.168.40.40
<Ahmuck> er, nic names
<nubae> so put that in dhcpd.conf
<Ahmuck> 192.168.40.40 is a tomato router
<Ahmuck> it's there
<Ahmuck> ah, it's there as the gateway
<nubae> right
<nubae> so set it as dns server in your dhcpd.conf and u should see it working
<Ahmuck-Jr> so delete the gateway and set it to be the dns server
<nubae> no no
<nubae> just in dhcpd.conf
<nubae> edit the current option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.254;
<Ahmuck-Jr> ok
<Ahmuck-Jr> sudo start dhcp3
<nubae> and then restart dhcp3-server
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Jr: your interfaces file is wrong
<alkisg> Â  Â  gateway 192.168.40.40
<alkisg> The gateway can't be on a different subnet
<alkisg> So you should delete this line, eth0 will be used when a gateway is needed
<nubae> yeah gateway will be automatic
<Ahmuck-Jr> nope
<alkisg> Ahmuck-Jr: can you ping eth0 from a fat client?
<Ahmuck-Jr> i can ping the incoming nick as well as the thin client nic
<Ahmuck-Jr> why would i see an eth38 ?
<Ahmuck-Jr> i cannot however ping 192.168.40.40 from the client
<Ahmuck-Jr> which is the router
<alkisg> So you ip forwarding doesn't really work
<alkisg> Where do you see an eth38?
<Ahmuck-Jr> ifconfig
<alkisg> on the server?
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15752
<alkisg> cat /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
<alkisg> and pastebin it
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15753
<alkisg> Eeeek!!! nubae, does this have anything to do with the fat client setup?
<alkisg> This file should only have your 2 nics..
<Ahmuck> yes, well i was taken aback when i saw the file as i thought it was odd as well
<Ahmuck-Jr> i do have virtual box installed here, but iirc, it's self contained
<alkisg> Yes, vbox doesn't have anything to do with this file
<nubae> no
<nubae> fatclient doesnt touch that
<alkisg> So, Ahmuck, better start with this one! :) Leave only your two interfaces!!!
<alkisg> reboot is needed, though
<nubae> where are all those interfaces coming from?
<alkisg> And you could rename eth38 to eth1, it would make much more sense
<nubae> eth0
<nubae> his eth1 is the thin client one
<alkisg> sorry, eth0
<alkisg> Ahmuck: did you try 38 different NICs on the server?!!!
<nubae> that is totally weird man
<nubae> :-)
<Ahmuck-Jr> no, both nics are internal
<nubae> ifconfig is handing out only 2 it seems
<Ahmuck-Jr> i thought i noticed this ealier with a firewall setup.  could it be a os bug?
<alkisg> There are different mac addresses there, so i suppose they are real NICs
<nubae> weird weird
<nubae> well vbox could do that
<alkisg> Nah, I got vbox for a year now, never seen it touching that file
<nubae> yeah but under different configs dont u get bridges instead of nat?
<alkisg> I've only seen multiple nics in that file when replacing nics
<nubae> and a bridge would create other nics, no?
<alkisg> I've used it with bridges as   well
<nubae> k... just a guess :-)
<alkisg> ...and these aren't bridges!!!
<nubae> ahmuck, u're a good tester... u really do find all user case scenarios ;-)
<alkisg> Ahmuck: did you run any mac-address changing utility?
<nubae> yeah those are all real physical devices...
<alkisg> ...and all forcedeth
<nubae> what is forcedeth?
<alkisg> so I guess something was changing his NIC mac address
<alkisg> I guess it's a vendor / product name, like realtek or something
<nubae> must be  abug
<alkisg> (nvidia google tells me)
<nubae> https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/153727
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 153727 in debian "Ethernet device's number increases by one after every reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<alkisg> Nah.. Ahmuck's case is random, not increasing! :P
<nubae> its got from 1 to 38
<nubae> that seems increased
<alkisg> I guess in the next reboot it'll be eth39!
<nubae> hehe
<alkisg> Oh, I read "mac-address" instead of "device number", my fault
<alkisg> And forcedeth again, eh? Good catch, nubae...
<nubae> so nvidia driver related it seems
<alkisg> Hmm... did you see the proposed workaround? It turns out that you may declare a NIC without declaring its mac address... Very useful for cloning!
<nubae> hmmm
<nubae> well, seems a fix would be replacing kernel driver
<nubae> actually intrepid should have fixed it
<alkisg> I'm talking about this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/153727/comments/7
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 153727 in debian "Ethernet device's number increases by one after every reboot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<alkisg> It's useful for cloning
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> so its a bug in forcedeth.c
<alkisg> Ahmuck? did you do the workaround?
<nubae> wow, what an annoying bug
<alkisg> (A difference in Ahmuck's file as opposed to mine, is that Ahmuck's gets generated by  /lib/udev/write_net_rules, while mine gets generated by  /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules)!!!
<alkisg> So there must be something else wrong also
<alkisg> (it says so in the header of the files, Ahmuck's and mine)
<nubae> maybe something to with an upgrade vs install
<nubae> I've got the same as ahmuck actually
<nubae> ;-)
<nubae> # This file was automatically generated by the /lib/udev/write_net_rules
<nubae> # program run by the persistent-net-generator.rules rules file.
<alkisg> Oh, ok then
<alkisg> I'm on a clean installation
<nubae> well, I upgraded
<alkisg> well, sounds like you're right! :P
<nubae> but from alpha 5 Ithink
<nubae> anyway its presistent-net-generator.rules creating it
<nubae> anyway its definitely because of the forcedeth driver
<alkisg> OK, where is Ahmuck? !!! :)\
<nubae> LaserJock: if u are around... many of the apps mentioned in the spreadsheet don't have a counterpart on appnr.com
<nubae> and many more educational apps are in appnr.com but not on the list...
<nubae> For now I'm going to include only those that are on both, otherwise we cant take advantage of click and install
<LaserJock> nubae: well, we need to categorize
<nubae> whatcha mean?
<LaserJock> well, we have different levels of "support"
<nubae> ok, but shouldnt everything thats in edubuntu be in appnr?
<nubae> since appnr has universe and multiverse
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> Edubuntu does not come from Universe or Multiverse
<LaserJock> it comes from Main
<nubae> right, thats what I mean
<LaserJock> and appnr.com is just a list some people made
<nubae> hmmm.... I thought it took the packages as a base
<nubae> all the pacakges, sorry
<nubae> its a bit of a pain, because the lovely detailed explanations on appnr, for individual packages is a blessing
<nubae> taking that into account actually makes sense to put edubuntu into various categories, ie. -supported, -unsupported, maybe...
<LaserJock> well, the explanations are just from the package themselves
<nubae> I guess I should be installing the packages just to make sure they work and all
<LaserJock> nubae: did you get the hardy and intrepid lists done?
<nubae> I believe I have infront of me the intrepid list, but really it should just be one list with 3 categories (hardy, jaunty, intrepid)
<LaserJock> I think we want 1 list for each release
<LaserJock> so something like edubuntu.org/8.10/apps
<nubae> yeah, but the spreadsheet to base it off
<nubae> or the whatever to base it off, a spreadsheet is a pain
<nubae> a db would be best
<LaserJock> sure
<nubae> but for now I'm putting everything in an html file
<LaserJock> the spreadsheet was just to put something down
<nubae> so I can upload it to edubuntu.org as is
<nubae> ok, well from what you're saying, I still need to figure out what is in hardy and intrepid, and make 2 lists for that, and then we need to decide what goes in Jaunty
<nubae> right now I have one semi-finished nicely laid out html file
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> can you put it up somewhere for me to look at?
<nubae> yep, I'll put it up on a hidden node at edubuntu.org, let me just finish off what I'm doing...
<LaserJock> np
<nubae> you're sure all these apps are actually packaged, because there are some I can't find using apt-cache search or show
<nubae> and I have every repo enabled
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I think they're packaged, but the spreadsheet just has the Add/Remove name
<nubae> should still find it with apt-cache show
<nubae> search I mean
<LaserJock> only if the Add/Remove name is similar
<LaserJock> it may or may not
<nubae> well it looks in description too, no?
<LaserJock> right, but Add/Remove can be anything
<nubae> ok, yeah I'm seeing... sometimes no relation
<nubae> for example: CoqIde Proof Assistant does not exist
<nubae> in add/remove
<Ahmuck> ok, i'm back
<Ahmuck> sorry, i have students for the rest of the day
<Ahmuck> i'll have to do this again tomorrow
<nubae> no worries,..
<nubae> u saw we found the bug
<nubae> its with your network card driver (forcedeth)
<nubae> LaserJock: I'm gonna have to go through all the pacakge lists? ie, edubuntu-legacy, edubuntu-yound, etc, to figure out whats in each distro
<LaserJock> nubae: use edubuntu-desktop
<nubae> I'm doing it through the bzr meta package
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so you want the desktop-addon seed
<nubae> that doesnt include everything at all
<nubae> maybe ship-addon
<nubae> oh wait not shipped anymore is it
<Ahmuck> k, so how does one fix that bug?
<Ahmuck> i'll look at the link
<LaserJock> ship-addon has got a bit more but desktop-addon should have what you want
<nubae> no, maybe 10%
<nubae> 10% of what is listed in the spreadsheet
<nubae> if that
<nubae> childsplay isnt even listed there, looks like just the officially canonical supported apps
<LaserJock> ok, but the spreadsheet is *way* more than what Edubuntu supports
<LaserJock> childsplay is not part of Edubuntu
<nubae> ok, now I'm very confused... I am using the spreadsheet as  base for what is or is not edubuntu
<LaserJock> the spreadsheet has everything that's remotely educational that in Add/Remove
<nubae> far from everything
<nubae> it must be based on hardy or even gutsy
<LaserJock> shouldn't be
<LaserJock> I think hardy or intrepid
<nubae> many apps are not in add/remove, and many many in add/remove are not in the list
<nubae> only conclusion I can come to
<LaserJock> many apps are not in Add/Remove
<nubae> just looking at A, we have anki, adun, avogadro
<nubae> all listed in add/remove
<nubae> but not in the spreadsheet
<nubae> and its like that for every letter
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I *think* the spreadsheet is from Hardy
<LaserJock> I put avogadro in Intrepid so that would make sense
<nubae> ok, so then I can conlcude this, whatver I don't find in the add/remove, has been removed since hardy, right?
<LaserJock> hmm, not necessarily I don't think
<LaserJock> it could be removed
<nubae> well, ok, I'll just put a little N next to the ones that are listed in the spreadsheet but not in add/remove
<nubae> and I'll use the add/remove in intrepid for the new base, sounds ok?
<Ahmuck> where is the spreadsheet?
<nubae> but then again, we should really define what edubuntu is, cause if this is not edubuntu, then is this really what I should be doing
<LaserJock> nubae: honestly, I wouldn't use add/remove at all
 * nubae runs around in circles
<LaserJock> I would just use the seeds
<nubae> the seeds have practically nothing in them
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> but that's what we have
<LaserJock> you should have a list of ~20-30
<nubae> :-) so why did I get that list then :-/
<nubae> I've just been putting in hours of work with that
<LaserJock> that's why I've been poking you about it ;-)
<LaserJock> remember, I said to use the seeds
<nubae> I understood work on the seeds for Jaunty, and for what to include in it...
<nubae> gah, k, never mind... this can be the prospective edu apps list
<nubae> I can pull whatever from it and stick into the actual lists
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, don't scrap what you have for sure
 * nubae now understands what LaserJock means with just main
<nubae> brackets are recommends, right?
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> its a good thing I didnt start with the games...
<nubae> games app list is humungous
<LaserJock> hehe, yes
<LaserJock> humungous and not in Edubuntu
<nubae> but its confusing for folks if its available under Education in the add/remove menu
<nubae> I mean, if I got this confused... I'm surely not the only one
<nubae> I bet most people will assume education in add/remove is edubuntu
<LaserJock> well, there certainly is some confusion I guess
<LaserJock> that's why I think there may some value in these bundles
<LaserJock> and separating "Edubuntu" from "Ubuntu in Education"
<LaserJock> traditionally Edubuntu was defined by the CDs
<nubae> well its easy enough, we can have 2 categories, supported and unsupported
<LaserJock> right, but really that's not trivial
<nubae> well, it requires creating another seed right?, but that can be as big or small as one pleases
<nubae> maybe not if its supposed to be all encompassing though
<LaserJock> but if you put something in a seed you "own" it
<nubae> u mean u're responsible for its packaging??
<LaserJock> traditionally yes
<LaserJock> for it's bugs, etc.
<nubae> omg
<nubae> but thats where the -unsupported comes in
<LaserJock> right, but -unsupported still needs to be supported ;-)
<LaserJock> software doesn't just "exist", it need to get maintained
<nubae> ok, so u cant get around ignoring bugs on launchpad about something
<LaserJock> in if you point people towards a package there is some assumption that you're going to take care of it
<nubae> and sending it all downstream to the package maintainer
<nubae> nah... this is like recommended stuff
<nubae> but I can see this is not easy... it becomes extremely political
<LaserJock> ok, ... but still
<LaserJock> if we say, "go install childsplay" and then don't do *anything* towards childsplay I think it's a bad thing
<nubae> u mean, just showing people the app exists, isn't enough?
<nubae> I'm thinking from the users point of view now
<LaserJock> I think they assume the software is being taken cared of
<nubae> but it is, by the package maintainer
<LaserJock> wouldn't you?
<LaserJock> we *are* the package maintainer
<LaserJock> that's my point
<nubae> ok, I get that traditionally its that way...
<nubae> but the tux 4 kids suite for example
<nubae> which IS supported, all its bugs get sent downstream
<LaserJock> not exactly
<nubae> as I understand it, edubuntu maintains the seeds only, not the packages themselves
<LaserJock> not at all
<LaserJock> we maintain everything in the seeds
<nubae> hmmm... so basically edubuntu means... supported by canonical then
<LaserJock> no
 * LaserJock thinks nubae's head is going to explode :-)
<Ahmuck> users want software that intalls and works
<Ahmuck> if it installs and doesn't work is or is buggy, that's bad for any distro
<nubae> yeah, but there is such a thing as unsupported, in fact most of ubuntu apps are unsupported
<LaserJock> no, that's a bad term
<LaserJock> "supported" mean you can by Canonical support and that the software is maintained by Core Developers
<nubae> one of the biggest advantages edubuntu has, being the 'educational distro' is introducing users to great edu apps for whatever niche they need...
<LaserJock> and should receive better security support
<LaserJock> "unsupported" means you can't by Canonical support and the software is maintained by MOTU
<LaserJock> and gets security support on best-effort basis
<nubae> soo all the apps in the seeds are supported officially then, right? or am I getting that wrong too?
<LaserJock> you're right
<nubae> would not that indicate that especially u should be being paid for that?
<LaserJock> hmm?
<nubae> I mean if u are the maintainer the minute u add the package to the seed
<nubae> so if someone bought canonical support
<nubae> u'd be paid...
<LaserJock> umm, no
<LaserJock> I wish it worked that way ;-)
<nubae> it logically should
<LaserJock> Canonical gets paid for Canonical support
<nubae> otherwise I see no reason why one has to include only officically supported packages
<nubae> right... so by including only the official packages, that only helps them
<nubae> u see what I'm getting at?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> no, it helps everybody
<nubae> it would help more people if we included unspported pacakges too
<LaserJock> but we can't support them
<nubae> we dont need to support them, I cant believe for a moment that all kubuntu packages are supported
<LaserJock> sure they are
<nubae> I bet there are kubuntu packages that are not supported officially by canonical
<LaserJock> not in the seeds
<LaserJock> if it's in the Kubuntu seeds it's officially supported
<nubae> right so basically edubuntu IS the officially supported educational ubuntu
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> or at least that's how it's traditionally been
<nubae> well, that shows sugar out the window...
<nubae> shows/throws
<LaserJock> well, that's why we gotta work on it :-)
<nubae> and who chooses what is officially supported by canonical then?
<LaserJock> well, one has to be a bit careful here
<nubae> u know what I think is maybe confusing it for me, is that within edubuntu, there is no one officially working for canonical
<LaserJock> there used to be though
<nubae> kubuntu there is
<LaserJock> but yeah
<nubae> yes, but not now
<LaserJock> but that doesn't so much change Canonical support directly
<nubae> that was of course a benefit
<LaserJock> what we need are developers
<nubae> well it does in a way... its like canonical pulling out of the educational part... or at least edubuntu
<LaserJock> whether they come from Canonical or not is somewhat irrelevant
<LaserJock> well, in a lot of ways they have
<nubae> yeah and who wants to get caught up in it if its 'only canonically officially supported'?
<nubae> I just dont see the attraction to a dev
<LaserJock> to work on software we love
<nubae> yeah, that we dont get to choose???
<LaserJock> I like helping people and I think education is important
<LaserJock> sure we do
<nubae> me too
<nubae> incredibly important...
<nubae> but we should be choosing what edubuntu is and whats in it
<LaserJock> the problem is that there are several, sometimes intertwined layers here when you talk about "support"
<LaserJock> we can
<LaserJock> we can't tell Canonical what to do, i.e. what it will or won't support
<LaserJock> but that's not everything, in fact it's fairly small
<nubae> you're right, but we should be able to choose what we package/recommend
<nubae> the 2 being different
<LaserJock> we do determine that
<LaserJock> any Core Developer can change the seeds
<nubae> becoming the owner of the package... thats not a solution
<LaserJock> and anybody can file a Main Inclusion Report to move a package from Universe to Main
<LaserJock> well, we do that anyway
<LaserJock> that's what being a Core Developer is all about
<LaserJock> maintaining packages
<nubae> yeah, but here we are talking about a small amount of devs and many many useful packages
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> so we're spread pretty darn thin
<nubae> the user in the end suffers, because of rigid politics that shouldn't really apply to edubuntu
<nubae> thats my opinion anyway
<LaserJock> it's not politics!
<nubae> ok facts then :-)
<LaserJock> the fact of the matter is that software doesn't just magically work on itself
<LaserJock> somebody has got to do it
<LaserJock> some software is better than others
<nubae> look, there is no drive for a current dev to put in any more packages in edubuntu, because they cannot maintain it... that makes total sense... so edubuntu will not grow
<LaserJock> sure there's drive
<nubae> nah, if u cant, dont have the time, u can't
<LaserJock> I want to deliver more and better educational content to kids/schools/parents
<LaserJock> so we build a community of people
<LaserJock> that's how this works, more people = more software maintained
<LaserJock> if people want Universe software then it's certainly out there for them, and the MOTU do a pretty decent job of maintaining it
<nubae> so the process right now would be... become a package manager, then support the app of your choice, and then suggest it for inclusion into main, before it can even start being edubuntu
<nubae> that just seems like a really long, impossible process
<LaserJock> no, no
<LaserJock> *anybody* can contribute
<nubae> I get that... but I'm talking about the apps
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> there's no reason people can't help out
<nubae> why work on an app, if it might not get into edubuntu, or there is such a long procedure for it to happen
<LaserJock> well, because it's better for the users?
<nubae> its better for the users to get an unmaintained app, than non at all
<LaserJock> it's really not all that hard to get something into Edubuntu
<nubae> not all apps, but some for sure
<LaserJock> sure sure
<nubae> childsplay is a good example
<LaserJock> but it's in Universe, where it is maintained by MOTU
<nubae> yeah, but not in edubuntu
<Ahmuck> perhaps we need a recomended list
<LaserJock> not currently no
<Ahmuck> and default install, anything beyond that is up to the user to find out what's wrong
<nubae> this is the part I'm still confused with.... there are many really good apps in uni, which I see no reason shouldn't be listed for edubuntu
<LaserJock> nubae: then lets get them in!
<Ahmuck> how
<Ahmuck> how do we get them in?
<Ahmuck> do they all have to be free?
<LaserJock> we file a Main Inclusion Report
<LaserJock> yes
<Ahmuck> so for non-free apps we need a sepearte "recomended but not free" apps list
<LaserJock> we need to do a security review and file out "paperwork"
<nubae> ok, maybe getting into main is easier than I think...
<LaserJock> ok, but hang on a sec
<Ahmuck> the security review is to prevent someone from inserting a rouge app
<nubae> but I was led to assume it isnt
<LaserJock> the problem I see is everybody is wanting to make big lists of software
<LaserJock> when we can't even maintain the small list we have now
<nubae> but many apps in uni are better maintained than these because there is MOTU
<LaserJock> I think it's wise to start small, and work our way out
<nubae> I agree
<LaserJock> nubae: right, and that should *not* be the case
<LaserJock> our apps should be better maintained
<nubae> we had thin client manager listed for 2 releases even though its totally unsupported and dead
<nubae> in its place I'd rather see a uni maintained edu app
<LaserJock> it's not dead, it's just been replaced
<nubae> dead to me = not workign
<nubae> which it didnt
<LaserJock> it works in jaunty I believe
<LaserJock> ogra fixed up some stuff
<LaserJock> in any case, that was an "in house" project that kinda died
<nubae> well still... dead for 2 releases
<LaserJock> but when people take off that kind of thing happens
<nubae> its just an example... something that was in Uni wouldnt end up like that
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> sure it would
<LaserJock> for thin-client-manager it would have been just the same in Universe
<nubae> it might, but then next release, u pull it
<LaserJock> but a top priority needs to be building developer community
<nubae> yeah which is easier if there are more apps in edubuntu
<LaserJock> we gotta have people working on the software
<nubae> sounds like a chicken and egg situation
<Ahmuck> might i recommend only putting in stable for edubuntu
<LaserJock> somewhat yes
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: how do you mean?
<nubae> but the difference here is that both devs and users loose out... edubuntu remains small, a shadow of what it could be
<Ahmuck> well, a stable app is one that works
<nubae> Ahmuck: that is the idea right now, edubuntu has only apps which are in the main branch
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: that is exactly what Main is supposed to be, well-working software that is maintained, stable, secure, and relatively bug free
<nubae> but the problem is that its too conservative an approach, there are not enough apps
<LaserJock> more apps doesn't really help us though
<nubae> but in reality its not like that for edubuntu due to the small dev community
<nubae> it helps growth
<LaserJock> how?
<nubae> more people use it, more likely to get dev interested
<LaserJock> people aren't all that likely to use it if it's poorly maintained
<nubae> otherwise the way would be.... I like app such and such
<nubae> in order to work on it officialy, it needs to get into main first
<nubae> thats just backwards
<LaserJock> that's not how it is
<LaserJock> *anybody* can work on *any* package
<nubae> right they would not be working on an edubuntu package
<LaserJock> the issue is if the work needs sponsorship or not
<LaserJock> ok, but I don't seen anybody out there
<LaserJock> it's just me as far as I can tell
<LaserJock> well, and stgraber on LTSP
<nubae> right... which is why I'm saying why not focus on the stuff u have on your plate, and get the MOTUS to help with other apps
<nubae> and in the meantime, build the community
<LaserJock> because MOTU doesn't have time for it
<LaserJock> but yeah
<LaserJock> in a while (not sure how long exactly) Main and Universe won't exactly exist, which will probably get you closer to what you want
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure how to build a community that people don't want to participate in
<nubae> look, why dont we at least look at the edu apps that are currently in universe, and see what would be cool for inclusion, like a recommended list... we dont even have to put it in the seeds
<nubae> who said they dont wanna participate, I wanna particicpate
<LaserJock> sure, no problem
<LaserJock> well, to be frank, education is the worst area I've seen for getting people to actually do anything
<LaserJock> people just don't step up very often or very much
<LaserJock> and I totally understand that
<nubae> and I know at least another 5 other people... but I think not everyone can make major commitments like becoming package manager of every app they recommend
<LaserJock> but it's a real struggle
<LaserJock> no, no
<LaserJock> you don't have to
<LaserJock> we work as a team
<LaserJock> you do what you can, when you can
<nubae> ok, well we still have that strategy doc to look at too :-)
<LaserJock> but people need to help
<nubae> yeah I get that, maybe a list should be made
<nubae> ask what people want to work on
<LaserJock> I need to figure out how to make Edubuntu appealing to 1) current devs and 2) educators who can become devs
<nubae> well there needs to be a procedure too
<nubae> its not that simple to get involved right now... well... not simple enough
<LaserJock> right, it's not terribly simple
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if I can do a whole lot about that :(
<nubae> well what do u tell someone when they ask what shall/can I do to help with edubuntu
<LaserJock> one thing that I've thought about is getting an MOTU Education team
<nubae> and most of these will say, I have little programming experience
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> the problem right now is we don't exactly have a lot of useful infrastructure for people to plug in to
<LaserJock> back in the day it was a heck of a lot easier
<LaserJock> right now I'd say the big things are 1) bugs 2) documentation 3) website
<nubae> well I've heard it said several times that installing edubuntu-addon was pointless
<nubae> because it didn't really include a functional educational desktop
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> we gotta take very little steps though
<LaserJock> starting from where we are at right now
<nubae> yeah I see that
<LaserJock> so what kind of things can I/we do to help people get involved?
<nubae> well next meeting get a kinda roll call and find out who would want to be involved with what
<nubae> and list it somewhere
<nubae> maybe make it easy to do the same via a wiki/online form on the website
<nubae> or even form to email
<LaserJock> should there be a list of tasks that need somebody to work on them?
<nubae> yeah that too
<nubae> and just state, this is not an exhaustive list
<LaserJock> normally that would be on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<nubae> i think that link would scare people away
<nubae> especially with the work devel in it :-)
<nubae> s/work/word
<LaserJock> hmmpf
<LaserJock> it shouldn't
<nubae> reaction might be, I'm not a developer, thats not for me
<LaserJock> but I guess it could, it's somewhat hard for me to think like a newb anymore :(
<nubae> right
<nubae> very few people like to call themselves devs
<nubae> or dare
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> in Ubuntu we use if very loosely
#edubuntu 2008-12-31
<LaserJock> pretty much people who work on whatever it is
<nubae> I know, but that assumes they know ubuntu politics...
<Ahmuck> seriosly LaserJock, just u and stgraber on edubuntu?
<nubae> in the real world... they wouldnt call themselves a developer, so the word scares them... think of it as meaning hard core C programmer
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: yep
<LaserJock> nubae: contributor is probably better
<LaserJock> but work == development
<LaserJock> it's kind hard to get around
<LaserJock> in any case
<nubae> its just about the link
<nubae> its like the devel lists...
<nubae> most users wont subscribe to them
<nubae> too scary
<LaserJock> hmm
<nubae> a sys admin wont call himself a dev
<Ahmuck> actually, there are some apps out there that i think could be used as "partnership" apps
<Ahmuck> like opera
<nubae> and a sys admin would already be able to help alot with stuff
<Ahmuck> which would "beef" up the app offering
<LaserJock> opera is in the partner repo :-)
<Ahmuck> some of which are pay apps.  ubuntu does this now
<Ahmuck> iirc
<nubae> that becomes a real political debate, free vs non-free
<Ahmuck> *shrugs*.  ur looking for apps
<nubae> nah the apps ARE there
<nubae> lots and lots
<Ahmuck> and honestly, with LUK soon it may not be a problem with wine
<nubae> just needs careful assessing on how to put them into edubuntu
<Ahmuck> edu apps that equal some of the windows apps:?
 * Ahmuck needs to visit a toys r us soon
<nubae> many of them, yes
<Ahmuck> http://linuxappfinder.com/education
<Ahmuck> i use this site a sort of a barometer, because i know they are selecting the "best" apps
<Ahmuck> normally
<Ahmuck> ri-li is a neat app that teaches constitutional laws
<nubae> right we need something like that for edubuntu
<Ahmuck> it's there in the repositories
<Ahmuck> it's a quirky little game asks you questions about amendments(?) when your done with a level
<Ahmuck> kids learn via games, sound, etc.
<Ahmuck> word association
<nubae> nah I mean putting all the 'best' apps up like a barometer
<Ahmuck> so what constitutes best apps?
<nubae> just wondering, who manages the multiverse repo?
 * Ahmuck and another irc member disagreed on this the other day
<nubae> well, apps that work and are effective for the task they are supposed to do
<Ahmuck> actually, let me re-phrase that.  who should be the rating individuals to rate "best apps" ?
<Ahmuck> the individuals who rate what is considered "the best app"?
<nubae> well either the edubuntu team
<nubae> or everyone
<Ahmuck> how about students and educators
<Ahmuck> ever seen the novell usablity testing guidelines?
<nubae> yeah that would everyone who uses it
<Ahmuck> they did a wonderful job in usablity testing
<Ahmuck> we have that capablility here, and have been doing some of it.  it's interesting, because what were finding out is the apps we would consider "kool" are not the same ones we've been selecting
<Ahmuck> and the apps we thought would teach are not the same ones that are doing the job etc.
<LaserJock> nubae: MOTU maintain Multiverse
<nubae> yeah I guess it helps to have a student and teacher body to select what makes something usable or not
<LaserJock> we've wanted for a long time to get a good feedback mechanism for picking which educational apps go in Main
<LaserJock> we wanted an app review/list/rating engine
<Ahmuck> we have a video team here that might be able to assist.  it might be interesting to load the list with some apps and find out.  recently i was trying to get people to try scribus and was running into a lot of resistance becaue it was not "indesing" or "photoshop" or "etc. (insert main stream app here).  however, demoing the app peaked the curositiy of and adult and student, and now the student is looking at a full multimedia linux production box
<LaserJock> but as always, the problem is not in dreaming the idea, but implementing it ;-)
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> baby steps
<LaserJock> I would really love to see a testing team take off
<LaserJock> that's something that should be fairly easy for people to do
<nubae> list it in strategy doc
 * LaserJock starts to get the feeling that nubae wants him to work on something ... :-)
<Ahmuck> our test lab will have full cameras in it.  i'd be willing to do some testing, though i rely on volunteers to do so and you know how volunteering goes
<nubae> well, its an example of a task, and a person that is kinda volunteering for that task, Ahmuck :-)=
<nubae> so might as well write it down :p
<Ahmuck> exactly, true development doesn't happen all on the dev side
<Ahmuck> if it did, we would all still be in text land :)
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: could you perhaps find out if you could get some volunteers?
<Ahmuck> volunteer to sit down and test?  we have them
<Ahmuck> i don't know if they would be willing to be video taped
<Ahmuck> it's interesting to sit down and watch people use programs
<LaserJock> yes
<Ahmuck> you learn alot about "whats expected", etc.
<Ahmuck> gimp did something a while back, and they made some small changes in the "crop" tool after some testing and some developement, and it is by far the best "crop" tool out there.  you have large areas to drag the box with, not trying to hit the edges of the box
<Ahmuck> it's these types of changes that make one app stand out from the others
<LaserJock> so we need to have a list of things to test
<nubae> another document :p
<LaserJock> a lot of this stuff should *so* be on the mailing lists
<freetown> what did i miss?
<freetown> what did i miss?
<nubae> what mailing list :p
<nubae> havent seen traffic on it in months
<LaserJock> then let's get it going
<freetown> you mean significant traffic >:P
<LaserJock> the problem is we can sit here and chat for hours
<LaserJock> but the audience is quite small
<nubae> yeah I know... thing is here u get a feeling it you're talking to someone, the list often is in one ear out the other
<nubae> instant gratification :-)
<nubae> is xsane not in main?
<LaserJock> I think it is
<nubae> shouldn't it be part of edubuntu... I mean scanning is quite important for schools
<stgraber> nubae: it's in main and AFAIK part of the standard Ubuntu desktop
<nubae> oh, maybe thats new, and I never noticed
<LaserJock> I think it's been that way for years
<nubae> I've been upgrading for years, so I wouldnt have noticed :-)
<stgraber> according to rmadison, xsane always was in main
<stgraber> (at lest since dapper, don't have the history before that)
<stgraber> *least
<nubae> weird...
<nubae> right calling it a night... laters...
<andresmujica> hi
<andresmujica> what do you think about an edubuntu server for about 10 thin clients
<andresmujica> but the edubuntu server would be a domU or guest host in a xen enviroment?
<Ahmuck> a domU ?
<andresmujica> a guest host
<Ahmuck> has linux become bloated?
<freetown> Ahmuck, nope...it just tries to run on top of a xen kernel
<freetown> so hurray for a native solution: kvm
<freetown> but yeah, xen support is bloat imnsho
<nubae> http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/8.10
<alkisg> nubae: "You are not authorized to access this page."
<nubae> huh, really?
<nubae> try now
<alkisg> nubae: the same, "Access denied"
<alkisg> oh, now it's ok
<nubae> yeah forgot to hit publish
<nubae> have look through see if it looks ok
<alkisg> Grrr... it took me some hours to write this in Greek, it would be much easier for me if you did this a month ago! :P :D
<alkisg> (thanks!)
<nubae> grin, I have another list of the non-supported apps too
<alkisg> non-supported? why would you want this list?
<nubae> which is what I was working on for weeks, until Laserjock explained exactly that edubuntu is only the apps in main
<alkisg> ...such as?
<nubae> well if u go to add/remove and look under education
<nubae> there is tons of stuff
<alkisg> Ah, I see. Yeah, that's not part of edubuntu.
<alkisg> Good job... Did you do all this manually, or did you also use any script?
<nubae> well, semi-manually
<nubae> copied and pasted from package details
<nubae> but to get it looking decent had to lay it up in dreamweaver
<nubae> I still think we should have a section that shows recommended edu apps
<alkisg> Pitty there's isn't a Linux version of dreamweaver
<nubae> that are universe or multiverse
<nubae> well I use wine
<nubae> works perfectl
<alkisg> Oh, that's interesting! :)
<nubae> yeah dreamweaver 8
<nubae> installs and runs flawlessly
<alkisg> Why not any later version? They have problems?
<nubae> well, later version u need to copy the dir from windows to linux partition
<nubae> and I dont run windows at all anymore
<alkisg> Ah... still no problem
<nubae> yeah latest versions run without problems
<nubae> but cant install them
<nubae> need to install on windows, then move across
<alkisg> I only run Windows to copy movies for my kids, but I'll make another exception for DreamWeaver! :P
<nubae> hehe
<nubae> u think we should have rating and click-install on website?
<alkisg> Click install not necessarily, but it would be nice if they were actual <a href's> instead of simple text
<alkisg> ...also the icons would show better if they were larger,
<nubae> for links to homepages
<alkisg> Yes, e.g.  http://live.gnome.org/Dia for Dia isn't an actual hyperlink
<nubae> yeah, but thats their size... in the packages... If I enlarge it will be out of res.
<nubae> k... that should be pretty easy
<alkisg> I guess you could use the icons from /usr/share/icons, but it'll take some minutes
<nubae> those are the ones I'm using
<nubae> 32x32
<nubae> there is 48x48, but not all apps have those
<nubae> actually only Ooo has 48x48
<alkisg> I thought all the kde apps had 128x128 and most gnome ones had svg..
<nubae> unless I convert them all from svg
<nubae> svg wont work on the web directly, that would  a lot of work...
<alkisg> Nah, a script could do it quickly
<alkisg> imagemagick loads svg fine if I remember correctly
<nubae> well, one would have to write something to scale, then convert
<nubae> probably easier with inkscape
<nubae> but imagemagick should do it
<alkisg> It's a one-liner with imagemagick, I think I did something like that some months ago
<nubae> the problem is, then I have to reupload every image, one by one
<nubae> I dont have access to the ftp server, just upload via drupal
<alkisg> Ouch... that's a major problem! :)
<alkisg> I wish I knew curl or something to automate such tasks
<nubae> well, the ideal would be a database of the apps.... but again, no access to the server
<nubae> screenshots would be nice too I suppose
<alkisg> even some appropriately structured text-based files would do, but again, no access
<nubae> :-)
<Ahmuck> i'd like to see anki in edubuntu
<Ahmuck> http://ichi2.net/anki/download/index.html
<nubae> and I celestia
<nubae> googleearth wouldnt be bad in there either
<nubae> we have  flash card programs in edubuntu already, are they not as good?
<Ahmuck> i'd like to see a pay app section
<Ahmuck> in your list
<Ahmuck> there are some pay apps that work well, some which are windows and others which are linux
<nubae> right now, edubuntu cannot carry pay apps... it cannot even carry anything outside whats officially supported by canonical
<Ahmuck> i really think the linux communinty needs to get behind the linux app programs pay or not
<Ahmuck> so, need to make a sepearte link on the web for a master list?
<nubae> If I am allowed to, that would be great
<Ahmuck> see, i don't understand why edubuntu can't have pay apps.  they have prop nvidia drives don't they ?
<nubae> I have to speak to the powers that be first
<nubae> speaking of...
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> uh oh
<nubae> http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/8.10
<nubae> thats intrepid's current list...
<LaserJock> nubae I love you!
<Ahmuck> kdenlive works well, is it on the list?
<LaserJock> I don't think we ship kdenlive
<nubae> what is khelpcenter by the way?
<nubae> that was in the seed, but didnt include it
<Ahmuck> it's to bad edubuntu isn't kde based, as they appear to be more involved in edu
<LaserJock> khelpcenter is the KDE help ... center
<nubae> everything in kde-edu is in edubuntu
<LaserJock> it's a real toss up really between KDE and Gnome
<LaserJock> there's gcompris on the Gnome side, for instance
<nubae> Ahmuck asked me if we could make another list that has the apps which are not supported but recommended on website
<nubae> I have a lot of these already done from add/remove
<LaserJock> I think the wiki may be a better place to do that
<nubae> yeah maybe... true
<nubae> also... should there be a click-to-install link for the apps, or not?
<nubae> and screenshot?
<nubae> rating?
<LaserJock> I don't think yet
<LaserJock> I have to think a sec about the click-to-install
<LaserJock> it would be fine if you're on the page for the release you are running
<nubae> well, I think we should really retire the page when the new release comes out
<LaserJock> but there are going to be some differences between releases and I wonder if that would cause confusion/problems
<nubae> no?
<LaserJock> no, we need historical lists
<nubae> we can link to the old page somewhere for those users
<nubae> but the more links, the more confusing, I agree...
<LaserJock> I think if we had a edubuntu.org/applications page that was an overview
<LaserJock> that then linked to the individual release pages
<LaserJock> I just don't want people thinking they are upgrading by clicking on the apt-url link on a newer page
<nubae> yeah we have to make it clear that that is for the CURRENT distro...
<nubae> maybe keep the install-on-click off then
<LaserJock> but I think we should linkify the homepages
<nubae> ??
<LaserJock> the Homepage: URLs are links
<LaserJock> aren't
<nubae> oh right, yeah
<nubae> doing that now
<LaserJock> we *could* link to the packages.ubuntu.com entry
<LaserJock> but for now I think this is an *excellent* start
<nubae> yep... which would require a little intellegence to click and install
<LaserJock> I'm very pleased
<nubae> edubuntu.org feels a little more complete now...
<LaserJock> ok, so now we need 8.04
<LaserJock> that should be mostly a copy-n-paste
<nubae> yeah, I'll check the seed
<nubae> so when  have 8.04, I'll seperate the applications page to show an intro explaining about the desktop and artwork packages briefly, and showing the distro list links
<nubae> btw, I have a desktop for jaunty for u to look at... whats u're email?
<LaserJock> laserjock@ubuntu.com
<nubae> sent, tell me what u think
<LaserJock> lol
 * nubae has too much time on his hands
<LaserJock> that's rather funny
<Ahmuck> is there no way to "query" the distro?
<Ahmuck> er, release
<LaserJock> I guess since we don't have to worry about .iso size anymore we could include more artwork
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: like you want to find what release somebody is running?
<Ahmuck> yes
<LaserJock> cat /etc/lsb-release
<Ahmuck> can you do that from the web page
<Ahmuck> query the release and then point to that release page?
<Ahmuck> actually, this is possible via the browser iirc
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I think that's the usual way
<Ahmuck> k, i'm up for the challenge of fixing my multiple nics and getting the fat clients to work
<nubae> linkified...
<nubae> well first remove every eth except eth0 and eth1 in your /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
<LaserJock> is 18:00 UTC an ok time for a meeting?
<Ahmuck> sure
<Ahmuck> what is 1800 UTC ?
<nubae> universal time
<Ahmuck> is there a UTC chart i can view
<nubae> let, me check what that is in Euro time...
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: where are you?
<LaserJock> CST?
<LaserJock> depending on where in Europe you add 1 or 2 hours
<Ahmuck> usa
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: ah, what time zone?
<nubae> yeah 1 for me
<Ahmuck> central
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: then you are UTC -6
<LaserJock> so it would be noon
<LaserJock> how's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda look for a start of an agenda?
<nubae> yah kool
<Ahmuck-Jr> # PCI device 0x11ab:0x4320 (skge)
<Ahmuck-Jr> # PCI device 0x10de:0x0057 (forcedeth)
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, what is the difference between forcedeth and skge ?
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah, nm
<Ahmuck-Jr> one is the nvidia (forcedeth) and the other is the other nic
<nubae> yeah and the nvidia driver is kaput
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, that's done
<Ahmuck-Jr> now what?
<nubae> u have only 2 entries in there now?
<Ahmuck> yes
<nubae> make sure your mac address corresponds correctly
<Ahmuck-Jr> k
<Ahmuck-Jr> er, done
<nubae> well I have to get going... new year's and all... so have a good one
<alkisg> Happy new year nubae - and everyone
<Ahmuck> yes, happy new years
 * LaserJock generates more bugmail spam :-)
<penguinhunters> Gotta question...  Using ltsp for the first time with edubuntu 8.10... We are configuring it for a private school.  I have the server the way I want it... When booting from the thin client it will pull up the graphical login screen, I can log in but after it recognizes my credentials, it black screens and locks up... I have asked in #ltsp but no response... Any ideas?
<Eeyore-Jr> anybody up today ?
<HedgeMage> I'm semi-here
<Eeyore-Jr> used digtal vidoe on linux?
<Eeyore-Jr> kdenlive or kino or openmovie editor
<Eeyore-Jr> i'm getting an error when i try to capture.  something about 1394 kernal module not being loaded
<Eeyore-Jr> nm, it looks like 8.10 solves that.  i'm on kde 8.04.1
<Eeyore-Jr> i'll need to install xubuntu on this pc to get it to work propelr or open box
<HedgeMage> Sorry, I've not tried any of that.
#edubuntu 2009-01-01
<nubae> morning alkisg
<Ahmuck> good morning
<alkisg> Hi Ahmuck
#edubuntu 2009-01-02
<nothingman> hey, nubae!
<highvoltage> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<ianfdlrs> Can someone answer a question for me?
<LaserJock> mmorning all
<Ahmuck> gooooood morning
<nubae> hey peeps
<LaserJock> man, 2009 already
<Ahmuck> good morning nubae
<Ahmuck> good morn LaserJock
<Ahmuck> nubae: going to try your fat client setup this afternoon on a blank vm
<LaserJock> shesh, it's really raining here
<Ahmuck> where is here?
<LaserJock> Nevada
<LaserJock> we hardly get any precipitation here
<LaserJock> I totally wasn't prepared for rain and got soaked on the walk from my car to school
<Ahmuck> ur a student?
<Ahmuck> at a college
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I've been a student for a long long time :-)
<Ahmuck> is SDL a problem only on ltsp or is a problem on ubuntu 8.10 as well?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: I think it must be LTSP-only
<nubae> yeah ltsp only
<nubae> its due to multiple users
<nubae> LaserJock: did u ever manage to set up the ltsp network at your uni?
<LaserJock> nubae: I haven't yet no, don't know if I will get to
<Ahmuck> is anybody working on wine?
<LaserJock> depends on what you mean by working on wine
<LaserJock> there is a guy in Ubuntu that maintains wine
<LaserJock> but do you mean specifically for edu stuff?
<nubae> maybe he means when is it going into main
<LaserJock> nubae: so do we know what all apps have this SDL problem? right now bug #269082 just has tux*
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269082 in tuxpaint "tuxpaint and other tux SDL driven apps slow down and/or freeze thin client terminals (ltsp)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269082
<nubae> would u like me to list them some place?
<LaserJock> well, is it more than tux* ?
<nubae> SDL drives 50% of edu and games linux apps
<nubae> so yes
<alkisg> Super Mario Chronicles (SDL) also gives 1 frame per ...minute in LTSP
<LaserJock> have you talked with LTSP at all about it?
<LaserJock> I assume some anyway
<nubae> well, its not an LTSP issue, its an SDL multi-user issue
<nubae> it needs to be fixed on the SDL side
<LaserJock> right
<alkisg> nubae, multi user? I couldn't work smc even with 1 user...
<nubae> but yes, ltsp folks are very aware of the issue... the trick right now is to switch sound off... but that is not a solution
<alkisg> Not even with plain ssh -Y
<LaserJock> but LTSP is sort of the leverage community here
<nubae> alkisg: right, some apps are more messed up than others
<nubae> well, take a look at the bug report.. it couldn't be more complete I dont think
<LaserJock> so essentially we need a bug for each app we want to get fixed
<nubae> well, if that would help :-)
<nubae> I've got no deployments at the moment, but when I do, I'll certainly start bugging people about it again...
<LaserJock> well, I wonder if the problem is in SDL or how the apps use SDL
<LaserJock> as in, is there something in our SDL that is causing problems
<nubae> it is definitly in SDL, as it happens across apps
<LaserJock> do we know if it happens the same in Debian?
<nubae> in the tux apps, at least, if you run them with sound=off everything works fine
<LaserJock> I wonder if Skolelinux people have complained
<LaserJock> right, but you get no sound either
<nubae> I wondered about this too, since I seemed to be the first one to file a bug against it... but hey...
<nubae> yeah, just pin pointing the problem
<nubae> something to do with ltsp's use of pulse
<LaserJock> right, so does that then come around to it being a LTSP problem?
<nubae> I think it might be valuable to test the officially supported SDL driven apps in edubuntu
<nubae> no, because SDL should run fine with pulse
<nubae> ltsp is not the only project using that
<LaserJock> right, but I wonder if it's a LTSP+pulse problem and not just pulse
<LaserJock> I haven't seen any complaints about SDL apps outside of LTSP people (though I haven't looked much)
<nubae> well alkisg just mentioned that super mario chronicles won't work even with one user
<LaserJock> well, that could just be that game, hard to tell
<alkisg> I think there's a problem with refreshing in SDL, it happens too often for the network to cope with it
<nubae> yeah or graphics card issues
<nubae> ok, then I could test it with fat client
<nubae> in theory it should be fine... I'll try running super mario chronicles locally
<nubae> interesting that screem was picked above bluefish editor for a web dev app
<nubae> I find screem to be quite buggy, its crashed on me more than once
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I'd like to replace it
<LaserJock> at the time I believe screem was the better
<nubae> ok, suppose a lot of this is legacy
<nubae> well I would vote for bluefish
<Ahmuck> wine multiuser
<Ahmuck> smc
<Ahmuck> SMC, but you can't SMC to work over a thin client can you?
<LaserJock> our basic app selection from say 2 years ago or so, though we try to keep the edu-specific ones fairly updated
<LaserJock> *is from
<nubae> what is SMC Ahmuck?
<LaserJock> it wasn't until recently that anybody complained about screem, so there wasn't a reason to change
<nubae> LaserJock: so u pick one app for each area, or what?
<nubae> probably no one uses it, as its a recommends :-)
<Ahmuck> i've got the test deployment which if i can get fat clients working well, i'd be testing quite a few SDL games
<LaserJock> yes, we try not duplicate
<Ahmuck> my fat clients are 1Ghz, 512mb ram
<LaserJock> 1 app per task, in general
<nubae> yeah makes sense, though I really would add abiword
<nubae> the main reason being it supports collaboration
<nubae> and its fast, small and very stable
<LaserJock> yeah, that's a hard one for sure
<Ahmuck> oh, and 128mb vid cards
<Ahmuck> why not use kompozer?
<LaserJock> a lot of people prefer abiword/gnumeric over OO.o but Openoffice has the best chance of being sort of standard
<Ahmuck> or quanta
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what the state of kompozer is
<nubae> LaserJock: I think they are different...
<LaserJock> quanta is KDE2
<LaserJock> KDE3 rather
<nubae> think about what u do when u want to edit something quickly... u dont open OOo
<Ahmuck> SMC is super mario chornicals.  it's been my test case for SDL
<nubae> u go to notepad, or gedit or abiword
<LaserJock> once quanta gets a KDE4 port I'll probably push that into edubuntu-desktop-kde
<LaserJock> I don't use abiword, but that's just me ;-)
<Ahmuck> i use a text editor, that "highlight"
<nubae> I wouldn't compare abiword and OOo... the collaboration thing is a big part too
<Ahmuck> it's been a long time however, but i'm sure i can find it
<LaserJock> I open gedit (GUI), vim/emacs (terminal), and OOo (heavy word processing)
<Ahmuck> abiword has collaboration?
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> also, why is blender not in there?
<Ahmuck> i don't like abiword because of it's compatiblity issues
<Ahmuck> nubae: blender locked my machine on fat client
<LaserJock> I think we dropped blender at some point because of space
<nubae> Ahmuck: http://www.nubae.com/telepathy-empathy-and-collaboration
<nubae> hmm interesting, never seen it lock up myself
<LaserJock> we have gobby for collaborative editing
<nubae> thats different
<nubae> think about kids working on a stylised document together for some project
<nubae> they cant use gobby
<LaserJock> sure, I realize that
<LaserJock> but Abiword has only had collaboration for a short time
<nubae> gobby is a collaborative hacker/programmer tool
<LaserJock> so we didn't have that reasoning
<nubae> oh, I realise that, just talking about now for Jaunty
<Ahmuck> oooh, collaboration ... were working on a communty drive happy publication here at our test lab.  would scribus do collaboration?
<nubae> and blender can go back in cause there are no more space restrictions I take it
<nubae> Ahmuck: not yet... but it will be very easy for devs to enable collaboration as its not integrated into gnome itself
<Ahmuck> sooooo.  any chance of getting anki in edubuntu?
<nubae> s/not/now
<Ahmuck> i don't think there is a ubuntu packager for it currently
<LaserJock> I think I saw anki
<nubae> yeah its in there
<Ahmuck> this collaboration happens over the lan or the wan?
<nubae> anything
<nubae> even across natted firewalls
<nubae> on both ends
<LaserJock> blender might not be easy to get back in
<nubae> why?
<LaserJock> abiword should be easy
<LaserJock> because blender has been demoted to Universe
<nubae> probably because its no longer in edubuntu :-)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I don't think Ubuntu was considering installing it by default
<nubae> well its too niche
<nubae> ubuntu studio has it though
<Ahmuck> is there a way to turn ubuntu studio into a ltsp server?
<nubae> but I guess ubuntu studio doesnt have the same rules as ed/k/ubuntu
<Ahmuck> is that option there?
<LaserJock> nubae: no, Ubuntu Studio is done in Universe
<nubae> u can turn any buntu distro that uses teh same repos into ltsp
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: you can do pretty much anything you want on an LTSP spever
<LaserJock> *server
<nubae> yeah, I think its a better approach, universe gives u more power
<nubae> but you already know my opinion on this :p
<LaserJock> in any case, blender would need to have some dependencies also promoted
<Ahmuck> ubuntu studio would be pre-configured however turning it into a ready made journalism lab for yearbooks, etc.  though i'm not sure it would go well, as apple really has this market tied up
<LaserJock> but given that it was already in Main at one point I don't know that it would be all that hard to get it in again
<nubae> so whats required?
<nubae> LaserJock: what I'm seeing with the apps from hardy to intrepid is name changes in the kde-edu area
<nubae> that and thin client manager was still supported
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> the KDE Edu stuff was KDE 3 -> KDE 4
<nubae> ahhh, ok, makes sense
<nubae> so u want me to list them with their old names for the hardy apps list?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> I want it to be accurate
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> looks like for blender we also need: freealut,openal-soft, and ftgl
<LaserJock> so that's 4 packages to get promoted
<nubae> yeah, no idea what they are :-)
<LaserJock> me neither, looks like just various libraries
<nubae> btw, we are going to need abiword for sugar anyway
<nubae> if thats still the plan
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> do you need all of abiword?
<nubae> yes
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> I would have though just abiword-common or something like that would be needed
<nubae> there might be some depends not needed
<stgraber> abiword is alreay in main anyway and we have enough space on the CD ?
<nubae> no, we need actual abiword too
<nubae> yeah cant be that big...
<LaserJock> well, that's not so much the question
<LaserJock> it's the duplication that might be an issue, though one I think we can work around
<nubae> waht was denemo?
<LaserJock> a musical score editing app
<nubae> oh that fell out cause of dependencies IIRC
<LaserJock> I'm pretty bummed out, it was our only music app
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> and it's pretty buggy
<nubae> there was a nice little app for learning guitar riffs... tux guitar or something
<Ahmuck> name changes?  u mean they are falling away from kname now?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> but some KDE apps were dropped and some added going from KDE 3 to KDE 4
<Ahmuck> ah
<nubae> but yes, they did fall away from the k name
<nubae> like parley, marble
<Ahmuck> there are some nice music apps out there.  rosegarden, hydrogen, etc.
<nubae> rosegarden would be a good one indeed
<Ahmuck> though rosegarden can be tough to get running because of jack
<nubae> very maintained, 4 star rated
<LaserJock> it's pretty advanced though, isn't it?
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> almost pro
<LaserJock> that's why Ubuntu Studio has it
<nubae> jokosher is pretty neat, it is working on collaborative support, so people can make music across networks together
<nubae> yep
<LaserJock> yeah, I've been trying to get jokosher in forever
<LaserJock> but jono said it wasn't ready when I was last trying (quite a while ago)
<Ahmuck> i looked at jokosher this morning.  i would agree, if it's not buggy that needs to be there
<Ahmuck> an app to watch, is kdenlive
<LaserJock> I find that it's not all that hard to find educational software, but it's *very* difficult to find good educational software
<Ahmuck> it works a lot like adobe movie production
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: that's been my observation as well
<LaserJock> it's the same for science software
<LaserJock> and probably most niche stuff
<nubae> yeah like 1000 people start a project, 100 continue them, and 10 perfect them
<LaserJock> one thing that we can look at is Java apps
<LaserJock> since we have a free Java now we can start reviewing Java apps for packaging/inclusion
<nubae> we've got a problem there with ltsp though
<nubae> or has it changed?
<LaserJock> have no idea
<LaserJock> I've never run LTSP and only know what I hear in here :-)
<Ahmuck> o.O
<Ahmuck> i've got short cables, and am running on a pretty standard "desktop" server.  it works, but i definately see the need for fat clients
<Ahmuck> and SMC wouldn't even run
<Ahmuck> anyhow, a gig network, and switch
<Ahmuck> between the server and the client
<Ahmuck> many schools will run cable runs over 300ft
<nubae> LaserJock: u should really fix that... at least try it out on your home network
<LaserJock> I suppose :-)
<LaserJock> I just don't like networking
<Ahmuck> which can be a problem.  so you have infrastructure upgrade, etc.  and many apps are multimedia apps, journalisim, publishing, etc.  it's a whole different mix than grade school apps
<Ahmuck> it's farily easy.  buy a switch, buy some cables, hook up an old pc to a ltsp server
<Ahmuck> ah, yes, or do it in a vm
<LaserJock> I did buy a crossover cable and tried it on a ClassmatePC a long time ago
<LaserJock> in Paris I think
<LaserJock> but I just don't have any use for LTSP personally so I have a hard time getting motivated
<Ahmuck> that reminds me.  i need to go and make me a crossover cable this afternooon
<stgraber> hmm, I guess 99% of the code was rewritten since then :)
<Ahmuck> aren't you the leader for edubuntu?
<nubae> u work in a school, how can u not have a use for it?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: sorta
<LaserJock> stgraber is the LTSP guy though
<LaserJock> nubae: I'm a scientist, not an IT admin, etc.
<nubae> right, that split is kinda silly, the 2 go together like ham and eggs :-)
<LaserJock> I think it's a useful split
<LaserJock> but I know what you mean
<nubae> yeah, I kinda agree
<nubae> but in most deployments, I'll bet you they are used together
<nubae> but the focus is now better
<LaserJock> people should be free to *not* use LTSP in educational settings or *to* use LTSP in non-educational settings
<nubae> righto
<LaserJock> however, certainly in schools it makes a lot of sense to use LTSP
<nubae> which is why YOU should be running it :-)
<LaserJock> well, I don't know that it makes a whole lot of difference
<LaserJock> the one time I tried it, it worked just fine, no issues
<Ahmuck> that's ok.  i run it and i'll be happy to give ou all user issues and complaints :)
<nubae> but how can u test things like collaboration, central management, italc, etc
<LaserJock> having 1 decent-spec'd client doesn't give you a good idea of how things run
<Ahmuck> vm's
<nubae> no right, u need a lab
<nubae> but I'm sure u have access to that
<nubae> actually u told me u had...
<LaserJock> ... no
<LaserJock> well, I kinda help out
<nubae> yeah... so blow their socks off, install ltsp
<LaserJock> but I don't run it, and hence don't get to decide whether to use LTSP or not
<LaserJock> the problem is we have no server
<Ahmuck> well, he'd have to do it with a test server
<nubae> anything can be a server, it just needs a lot of ram
<Ahmuck> i'm using a amd64 with 2g of ram for a test server
<LaserJock> right, I think we only have machines with <= 512MB
<nubae> so get some extra ram... it costs nothing these days
<LaserJock> yeah, that is a possibility
<LaserJock> but I've got bigger fish to fry
<LaserJock> the computer have been there 1 semester and we still can't login
<LaserJock> once we have usable machines we can discuss maintainability ;-)
<nubae> but ltsp will fix the login problems
<LaserJock> no, the problem is AD
<LaserJock> we can't get Linux to authenticate
<nubae> ah right, I remember...
<nubae> well its not too hard, I've done that before... there's lots of documentation on the net
<LaserJock> yeah, but it's 2 chemists trying to figure this out between teaching, research, and family
<LaserJock> it's pretty slow ;-)
<nubae> one of whom is the edubuntu lead ;-)
<LaserJock> sure, but I know next to nothing about hardware/networking
<LaserJock> I'm learning slowly but surely
<nubae> funny, I never get that... In find coding/packaging to be sooo much harder than that stuff
<LaserJock> well, it's what you do
<LaserJock> I've never had to worry about hardware/networking
<nubae> yeah guess we are creatures of habit
<LaserJock> but I have had to write code and fix packages
<LaserJock> I think networking in particular is way harder than packaging
<nubae> no way :-) I think the opposite
<LaserJock> I think I'm finally getting IPv6
<LaserJock> but LDAP, AD, samba, etc. phew, blows me away
<nubae> ip6 is over dramatised... its still not used
<nubae> ldap, is simple as can be... the problem is every vendor uses their own standards
<LaserJock> mostly I think it's because I have no practical experience with these things
<nubae> AD is more or less LDAP
<LaserJock> I've just always run single-user machines
<LaserJock> and you just plug in an ethernet cable or get wifi and go
<nubae> samba is very integrated into ubuntu now... I rarely have problems even across multiple oses (osx, vista, xp)
<nubae> they did a really good job there
<LaserJock> the problem I think we're having is just that we have a non-standard setup
<nubae> sounds like it
<LaserJock> if it wasn't for that I think we'd have AD working in nothing flat
<nubae> otherwise it would just pretty much plugin
<LaserJock> but it took us a lot of debugging to figure out why we can't get anything from the AD server
<LaserJock> although Windows machines do it so there must be some way
<nubae> well AD is not open
<nubae> reverse engineering at its best for linux users
<LaserJock> the problem is in the computer's name
<LaserJock> because these computer are in the chemisty departement they have .chem. on them
<LaserJock> and the AD server doesn't
<nubae> ahhh right that would be a problem
<nubae> so alias the domain
<LaserJock> what would that mean?
<nubae> give the .chem an alias to whatever the AD domain is
<LaserJock> so if I have a computer, xyz.chem.unr.edu I would turn it into xyz.unr.edu?
<mcohen> hi all, can anyone help me with a few questions, first-time edubuntu installer
<nubae> well for example, in etc hosts u can give the alias something like chemistry.chem and chemistry.unr.edu
<LaserJock> mcohen: just through out your question and we'll see if we can give an answer
<mcohen> thanks
<mcohen> I have an old Sony Vaio from the closet for the kids
<nubae> this is used for other services too that require multiple domain aliases
<LaserJock> *throw, geeze my english can be bad some days :-)
<mcohen> I'm trying to figure out the minimum reqs, it has 128MB ram, Pentium III 750 MHz
<LaserJock> mcohen: what would you like to do with it?
<mcohen> but when I try to install ubuntu it throws me to a text shell
<mcohen> it's just a pottering about/hopmework machine for my 11 yr old
<nubae> mcohen: what ubuntu iso are u installing?
<LaserJock> right yeah, Ubuntu needs currently ~ 300+ MB of RAM for the graphical installer
<mcohen> I figured 8.10
<nubae> -desktop?
<mcohen> x86 architecture
<mcohen> yes
<mcohen> but I don't need the 'try before you buy' feature, I know ubuntu
<LaserJock> I would think Xubuntu would be a better choice
<mcohen> use kubuntu 8.10 on my work machine
<nubae> when does it throw u to the desktop?
<mcohen> I never get to a desktop, I tell it to install and it chugs, then pulls up a full screen shell
<mcohen> xubuntu is a thinner distro?
<nubae> yeah, but even gnome should do 128mb
<LaserJock> "Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM. "
<mcohen> urgh, not much ram
<mcohen> the machine has a strong processor for the ram it has though
<nubae> yeah u are on the low end of ram, but it should work
<LaserJock> but usually those are pretty "conservative" requirements
<nubae> there were optimisations for ram in 8.10 iirc
<nubae> u might be thrown out for another reason though, like graphics card
<LaserJock> I would give Xubuntu 8.10 Alternate a try
<litlebuda> mcohen, use the xubuntu alternate install cd
<LaserJock> and if it's real bad maybe pick up some RAM, should be fairly cheap
<mcohen> ok
<nubae> yup try that, or enlightenment
<mcohen> ram for the old Vaio models is unlikely to be cheap unfortunately
<nubae> use them as thin clients??
<mcohen> actually,t he thing originally had windows ME on it, and I don't have the recovery disks
<LaserJock> or, right, was thinking desktop machine :(
<mcohen> idiot me, I installed 2K on it without mirroring, no graphics drivers
<mcohen> the default driver only tries 800x600, 16 colors, looked terrible (native LCD is 1024/768
<mcohen> hoping for better luck with ubuntu
<nubae> find out which graphics card u have
<mcohen> it's very hard to tell, I think it's related to the savage S3
<nubae> on linux, if u boot up a live cd, u can do lspci to find out
<mcohen> but on these 8 yr old super-small laptops, specialised drivers may be needed
<mcohen> will try that when I can boot
<mcohen> cheers
<nubae> try a livecd first actually
<mcohen> isn't the ubuntu desktop iso also a livecd?
<litlebuda> yes
<mcohen> trying now
<mcohen> doesn't load
<nubae> LaserJock: why do u need your chem terminals to have .chem on the end?
<mcohen> sends me to the BusyBox shell
<nubae> why not use the actual domain?
<nubae> mcohen: with what message?
<litlebuda> mcohen, try the xubuntu alternate install cd
<LaserJock> nubae: it's not at the end, it's xyz.chem.unr.edu
<LaserJock> or is that what you meant?
<mcohen> message was:
<mcohen> "loading, please wait"
<nubae> LaserJock: no, then its not a problem... alias them...
<mcohen> BusyBox v1.10.2 ubuntu etc
<mcohen> enter help for a list etc
<mcohen> that's it
<nubae> mcohen: something is breaking then... try xubuntu like the others said...
<mcohen> righto, dling now
<mcohen> will let you know how it goes when I try
<litlebuda> mcohen, Minimum system requirements
<litlebuda> You need 128 MB RAM to run the Live CD or 192 MB RAM to install. The Alternate Install CD only requires you to have 64 MB RAM at install time. To install Xubuntu, you need 1.5 GB of free space on your hard disk. Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM.
<nubae> LaserJock: for example, this is my entry in /etc/hosts: 192.168.0.254  homeserve.lan homeserve conference.homeserve schoolserver
<nubae> that means homeserve.lan is the same as conference.homeserve.lan
<mcohen> "Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM" may be a problem
<nubae> yah minimum went up, mcohen how many of these laptops u got? more than one?
<litlebuda> mcohen, try it first you may be surprised
<mcohen> just the one, found in a closet
<mcohen> will try and see
<Ahmuck> i just installed wine-doors.  would this work for wine?
<Ahmuck> nubae: do u know if there is a way to run from the machine and use ltsp for login and /home only?
<Ahmuck> is this channel edu safe?
<Ahmuck> ie CIPA safe ?
#edubuntu 2009-01-03
<LaserJock> nubae: still around?
<mcohen_> hi gents
<mcohen_> so I just installed xubuntu on this old Sony Vaio, and I want to add the edubuntu addon
<mcohen_> unfortunately, it keeps trying to tell me I have a conflict with another package that needs synaptic to be resolved.
<mcohen_> Has anyone here tried edubuntu with xubuntu?
<Ahmuck> mcohen_: no, but it i can fairly shortly if you would like
<Ahmuck> mcohen_: i assume it's 8.10 ?
<LaserJock> afternoon all
<stgraber> LaserJock: hey, do you have a sec for a ltsp upload ?
<LaserJock> sure
<stgraber> http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/ltsp/
<stgraber> and I'd also appreciate if you could +1 bug 311873
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 311873 in ltspfs "Please sync ltspfs 0.5.8-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311873
<stgraber> ogra doesn't seem to be around for a while :)
<LaserJock> ltsp uploaded
<stgraber> LaserJock: thanks
<LaserJock> stgraber: sync request ack'd
<stgraber> LaserJock: thanks
<nothingman> hi, all
<nothingman> having a little trouble getting a DHCP address from my client
<nothingman> dhcpd.conf is configured the same as always
<nothingman> I turned off the firewall
<nothingman> I'm able to connect to other ips on my network
<LaserJock> nothingman: have you tried #ltsp ? I'm not sure who all is awake in here right now
<nothingman> yeah, I have
<nothingman> thanks, though
#edubuntu 2009-01-04
<mcohen_> hi all, can anyone help me with installing edubuntu over xubuntu?
<mcohen_> I am trying xu because the machine is very low-end
<Ahmuck> mcohen_: yes
<Ahmuck> i have a xubuntu base install here
<Ahmuck> mcohen_: what r u trying to do ?
<mcohen_> well, xubuntu got on the machine 2nd time around
<mcohen_> 128 MB of ram, you see, though it has a p3 750MHz chip
<Ahmuck> 8.10 ?
<Ahmuck> why edubuntu?
<mcohen_> edubuntu for my daughter, she asked for it specifically
<mcohen_> yeah 8.10
<Ahmuck> requirements for xubuntu went up to 256 for 8.10
<Ahmuck> but i'll try
<mcohen_> yeah I know
<mcohen_> they said it might work anyway
<Ahmuck> there is openbox
<mcohen_> openbox?
<Ahmuck> http://crunchbanglinux.org/
<mcohen_> how usable would this distro be to a child?
<Ahmuck> u would put edubuntu on afterward
<Ahmuck> ok, let's stick with xubuntu for now
<mcohen_> sure
<Ahmuck> so u have ur shiny xubuntu and u insert the edubunt disk into the drive?
<mcohen_> the problem is that when I go to install an edubuntu package like the science add-on I get a conflict with installed packages
<mcohen_> I use kubuntu on my work machine and code in python and c++, you can assume a certain level of knowledge :)
<Ahmuck> ah, yes.  i just had the same problem.  let me see
<Ahmuck> i assume your familiar with "sudo aptitude install package_name"
<mcohen_> yep sure
<Ahmuck> it appears this works for edubuntu desktop
<mcohen_> ok, now how do I ensure that it decides to look on the disk rather than on online repositories (no net connection atm)
<mcohen_> and which packages are good for xubuntu?
<Ahmuck> as well as add/remove
<mcohen_> ok, a bunch of the packages it claims are broken
<mcohen_> including edubuntu-desktop (the package I was trying)
<Ahmuck> with add/remove ?
<Ahmuck> or using sudo aptitude ?
<mcohen_> sudo aptitude
<Ahmuck> let me see.  add/remove works 4 me here
<Ahmuck> i just tried sudo aptitude and it began downloading ealier
<mcohen_> no net connection, trying to do it with the disk only
<mcohen_> add/remove is the gui version yes?
<mcohen_> ah hmm, it says the broken packages are broken because they have virtual dependencies
<Ahmuck> no net connection o.O
<mcohen_> edubuntu-desktop relies on ubuntu-desktop, for example
<mcohen_> this is an ooold machine
<mcohen_> either a net connection, or a disk drive, but not both simultaneously
<Ahmuck> more than one cdrom drive?
<mcohen_> nope
<mcohen_> a challenge :)
<Ahmuck> sounds like your going to have to add "disks" to the machine and then install
<mcohen_> never been great with the mount command, can you run me through it?
<Ahmuck> !loli collect
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about loli collect
<Ahmuck> !loli collect
<Ahmuck> er, sorry
<Ahmuck> playing an irc game :(
<mcohen_> heh
<mcohen_> I hate wrong window mistakes
<Ahmuck> i suspect ur going to have to burn iso of ubuntu and kubunt and add those cdroms to your repositories to get the machine to work
<mcohen_> ok, I can burn an iso to a USB thumb drive, and then mount it I guess
<mcohen_> let me see if I can manage that, then you can show me how to add it to the repository
<mcohen_> ok, I've mounted the edubuntu cd and I have the xubuntu cd in the actual drive
<Ahmuck> application --> system --> software sources
<Ahmuck> u may need to have the ubuntu cd as well
<Ahmuck> third party apps
<Ahmuck> add cdrom
<mcohen_> trying that
<mcohen_> the edubuntu cd has been mounted as a directory though, not as a piece of hardware
<Ahmuck> this might be interesting
<Ahmuck> cd /etc/apt
<Ahmuck> sudo nano sources.list
<Ahmuck> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6368475
<Ahmuck> there's this as well
<Ahmuck> any luck?
<mcohen_> ok, if I edit the sources.list, what should I put to have it access a directory on the local machine?
<Ahmuck> good question.  i'm googling
<Ahmuck> u copied the iso to the machine?  is the iso on the thumb drive?
<mcohen_> iso is on the thumb drive
<mcohen_> I mounted it to a directory on the machine
<Ahmuck> http://www.debianhelp.org/node/10486
<Ahmuck> i think this would do it
<Ahmuck> i assume you "mount /dev/disk /mnt/disk"
<Ahmuck> i grabbing at straws here.  i know the general direction
<mcohen_> I ran mount /media/disk/edubuntu.iso ~/edubuntu_disk
<mcohen_> it says in the link you said that the mountpoint must be in the fstab though
<mcohen_> and the first column of the fstab seems to require a physical hardware object, such as /dev/cdrom0
<Ahmuck> mounting an iso is a little different
<mcohen_> ok, what should be in the fstab?
<Ahmuck>  /home/somebody/cdrom.iso /home/somebody/folder iso9660 user,loop 0 0
<Ahmuck> http://www.debianhelp.org/node/10486 - this article explains it all
<mcohen_> is a restart/logout required for fstab?
<crimsun> mcohen_: no
<Ahmuck> it's 2 am here.  my system is crashing.  the live one :)
<Ahmuck> so i've got to get some sleeeeep
<mcohen_> hmm
<mcohen_> thanks for your help
<mcohen_> do you think I'll need the ubuntu disk as well as xubuntu and edubuntu?
<mcohen_> and finally, in the bottom post in the thread you linked, is "etch contrib main" the right text for the sources.list?
<Ahmuck> no
<Ahmuck> you need to match what is similar for the cdrom
<mcohen_> ah I see
<Ahmuck> deb file:[Kubuntu 8.04.1 _Hardy Heron_ - Release i386 (20080701.2)]/ hardy main restricted
<Ahmuck> ur mounting the iso as a loop in fstab
<Ahmuck> and then telling apt where to find it
<Ahmuck> i'm not sure if you need cdrom or file
<Ahmuck> there is aptoncd
<Ahmuck> where you pick up packages from a installed system.  so if you have ubuntu on yours, you can create a cd of all the packages installed on your system
<Ahmuck> all aptoncd really does is creates an iso of your downloaded packages
<mcohen_> I see
<Ahmuck> i think
<Ahmuck> i'm a linux ameature
<mcohen_> for my sources I have deb file:/home/location/ intrepid ma$
<highvoltage> should be three slashes in the uri
<highvoltage> file:///home/location
<Ahmuck> well, nn
<Ahmuck> i'm to tired to stay awake any longer
<highvoltage> nn Ahmuck
<mcohen_> nn and thanks
<alkisg> mcohen_: try to mount the iso and put this line: "deb file:///path/to/mounted/iso intrepid main" in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/edubuntucd.list and then run "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get install edubuntu-addon-science". Don't install edubuntu-desktop, it depends on ubuntu-desktop while you have xubuntu.
<Ahmuck> [02:02] <alkisg> mcohen_: try to mount the iso and put this line: "deb file:///path/to/mounted/iso intrepid main" in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/edubuntucd.list and then run "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get install edubuntu-addon-science". Don't install edubuntu-desktop, it depends on ubuntu-desktop while you have xubuntu.
<alkisg> mcohen, ^^^
<mcohen> will try
<mcohen> what is d/edubuntucd.list
<mcohen> alternatively, what is the edubuntu repository?
<mcohen> test
<mcohen> sorry, alksig, what is d/edubuntucd.list
<alkisg> mcohen: there isn't an edubuntu repository, the edubuntu packages are in ubuntu main
<alkisg> sources.list.d is a folder which functions similar to sources.list. It's easier to put new sources there on seperate files. But if you already modified your sources.list, then just change the contents to "deb file:///path/to/mounted/iso intrepid main"
<alkisg> brb
<mcohen> tried this, but it can't find the package
<mcohen> I am also trying to do this purely with a net connection, also can't find the package there either
<alkisg> mcohen: Is kalzium in your package list?
<alkisg> edubuntu-addon-science = kalzium, kig, kmplot, kstars and qcad
<mcohen> yes, kalzium is there
<mcohen> but that's because it's part of the KDE education module
<mcohen> I can't find anything witht he word edubuntu in it
<alkisg> stgraber: the italc-launcher python script changes the environment: os.environ["LANG"]="C" # Set environ LANG to C
<alkisg> but doesn't restore it, so all localizations/translations are useless..
<alkisg> I mean that if I run "italc" from the console I see Greek UI, but if I run "italc-launcher" from the gnome Applications menu I see English UI.
<stgraber> alkisg: oops
<alkisg> I really have to read about what mirc net splits are... :)
<stgraber> it's when the connection between two IRC servers is lost and then re-established
<alkisg> I thought there was only one server, irc.freenode.net... Never mind!
<stgraber> alkisg: just do "host irc.freenode.net"
<stgraber> that'll give you a partial list of IRC servers as it doesn't contain some test servers and the IPV6 servers
<stgraber> there are freenode servers on all continents and some IRC hubs to interconnect the servers
<alkisg> Ah, dns ...what's the name, aliases, I see
<stgraber> a single server couldn't handle all of freenode users and that'd be a single point of failure too
<alkisg> thanks
<stgraber> the server I'm connect to currently has 6210 users connect to it (kornbluth)
<stgraber> There are 24491 listed and 21099 unlisted users on 34 servers
<stgraber> 26876 channels formed
<nubae> I believe irc.freenode.org routes you automatically to the most suitable server
<nubae> at least it puts bots on their own server, for example
<Fritz87> wait so I can't play it on my regular computer even if I buy it?
<Fritz87> wait, so I can't use it on my regular computer without some special program?
<nubae> Fritz87: ??
<alkisg> stgraber, also the autodetect feature (with avahi) isn't working. I tried to manually run ica-launcher again on an ltsp client, and I get "Failed to add service: local name collision". All this with the default installation (= NOT on the chroot). Are avahi-published service names supposed to be uniquely named?
<stgraber> alkisg: IIRC the avahi name now includes the username so it should yes
<stgraber> alkisg: I'd need to look at that code again, it's been a while since I last touched it
<alkisg> I think that's the problem, that it doesn't include the username
<alkisg> avahi-publish-service "italc $HOSTNAME" _italc._tcp $IVSPORT $MD5_1 $MD5_2 $MD5_3 "$HOSTNAME" > /dev/zero &
<alkisg> (or, and maybe better, the port)
<nubae> u got hostnames for all your clients?
<alkisg> yes, but this runs on the server (it's not installed on the chroot) so it shouldn't make any difference...
<alkisg> nubae, does avahi autodetection work for you?
<alkisg> (oh, you got fat clients, never mind! :))
<nubae> I use both actually
<nubae> but I always used ips to locate the clients, so no I guess...
<stgraber> alkisg: well, I'll need to add some logic to it as using the HOSTNAME will cause a lot of duplicates on the network (the thin clients all have the same hostname), the port will cause the same (it's 5800 for all ltsp thin clients) and the username is not that easy to get on the thin clients (the script is run as root)
<stgraber> anyway, I'll have to look at that again soon to update Jaunty, I'll then upload an intrepid backport to the ppa as I doubt it'd be serious enough for a SRU
<alkisg> Good enough. Please try to also use 10000 vs 11000 port when needed
<alkisg> Thanks!
<stgraber> well, both 10000 and 11000 are currently used, one for ISD the other for IVS
<nubae> what is ISD and IVS?
<stgraber> Italc Service Daemon and Italc VNC Server
<stgraber> ISD is to get the commands like triggering demo mode, screen locking, ... and the VNC server is basically x11vnc
<alkisg> stgraber: I meant the ISD port, e.g. 11105 for a client with .105 IP etg
<stgraber> alkisg: well, that'll need to be changed too anyway as more and more network are using network class bigger than a simple C class
<alkisg> In the new hostname patch uploaded by vagrantc the thin clients are uniquely named even in class A or B networks. But then again if someone uses NAT, it could have 2 clients with the same IP...
<stgraber> with NAT avahi won't work anyway, so not a big problem :)
<nubae> yeah wondered about that, italc must have problems with cluster-ltsp, no?
<stgraber> no
<stgraber> we don't use NAT :) and we don't use avahi either (italc-launcher as a module for ltsp-cluster)
<nubae> are there any other deployments (other than yours) that use ltsp-cluster that u know of?
<alkisg> OK, I changed the above line to: avahi-publish-service "italc $HOSTNAME$IVSPORT" _italc._tcp $IVSPORT $MD5_1 $MD5_2 $MD5_3 "$HOSTNAME" > /dev/zero &
<alkisg> and it works now, so it was definately the name thing
<nubae> greets LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<alkisg> Hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> nubae: I noticed somebody has requested to join Edubuntu Members ;-)
<nubae> lol, I figured I should probably do that
<LaserJock> we should get the Edubuntu Council back in action
<LaserJock> any of you guys running Sugar on Hardy/Intrepid?
<nubae> yep
<LaserJock> we need some people to test the fix for bug #263173
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263173 in sugar-hulahop "Sugar Browse fails on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263173
<nubae> thats fixed
<nubae> in intrepid
<nubae> was a hardy bug
<LaserJock> shouldn't be fixed yet
<stgraber> nubae: not that I know of, though we have multiple customers :) I also heard Fedora might be unterested in packaging ltsp-cluster too.
<nubae> and I dont see anyone with the willpower to go back and fix it for hardy
<nubae> its definitely fixed for intrepid
<LaserJock> nubae: *I* fixed it
<stgraber> nubae: but usually when it comes to managing that kind of network, having the clustering part in place is not enough, there is a lot of other things to take care of so they usually just become customers :)
<LaserJock> nubae: but we need to verify the fixes
<nubae> LaserJock: ah :-)
<nubae> ohhh, u mean like write it on the bug page
<LaserJock> nubae: an SRU needs 2 acks before being moved to -updates
<nubae> ok... I can do that
<LaserJock> nubae: you need to test the packages in -proposed
<nubae> so u fixed it for hardy then?
<LaserJock> yes, both hardy and intrepid
<nubae> stgraber: yeah but what happens to non local deployments?
<LaserJock> so enable -proposed, upgrade sugar, and see if the web browser starts up
<LaserJock> then report on the bug report
<nubae> but it already starts up.... without proposed
<LaserJock> it shouldn't
<nubae> well, maybe I'm using PPAs hang on...
<LaserJock> could be
<LaserJock> they fixed it in the PPA
<LaserJock> stgraber: you talk much with the Fedora LTSP folks?
<LaserJock> I haven't paid much attention lately to how that's all going
<nubae> hmmm odd, no PPA and no proposed enabled, just updates... and my browse launches...
<nubae> LaserJock: what really needs urgent fixing is the abiword dependencies... without that we loose 30% of the apps (read, write, puzzleslider, jiggsaw, etc)
<LaserJock> nubae: what's the result of apt-cache madison python-hulahop
<LaserJock> nubae: what do you mean?
<nubae> just sec, setting up my thin client for sugar, so I can test properly
<stgraber> nubae: well, currently the only ltsp-cluster deployments that I heard of are in Canada and the US and that's where we are so ... :)
<stgraber> LaserJock: I talk with them on IRC from time to time, also talked with some of them at the last LTSP hackfest. Fedora should basically be equivalent to Ubuntu at the moment speaking of LTSP integration.
<LaserJock> stgraber: is that Fedora itself or K12Linux?
<LaserJock> or is K12LInux == LTSP in Fedora?
<LaserJock> you guys think CMS systems besides moodle would be of interest to educational users?
<nubae> schooltool maybe
<nubae> gah... what causes tftp to timeout again... I've got my test client stopping with tftp open timeout
<nubae> ?
<crimsun> check the route; make sure there's an active/unfirewalled path.
<crimsun> LaserJock: in addition to or as a replacement for moodle?
<LaserJock> in addition to
<LaserJock> I was just looking at some other distros Edu app lists
<LaserJock> and like fedora has CMSs like joomla
<nubae> crimsun: yeah thanks, was shorewall... masq the wrong way round
<nubae> well, joomla isnt really edu based
<nubae> and then drupal is better
<LaserJock> we have an edubuntu-server metapackage which currently just has moodle
<LaserJock> I wonder if we could enhance that a bit
<nubae> for sure... start with ejabberd and schooltool
<LaserJock> ejabberd would be a good idea
<nubae> ejabberd is needed for collaboration with sugar and gnome stuff too, definitly essential
<nubae> if we want to promote collaboration, which I think is starting get legs now, it would be good to include
<LaserJock> I don't know what schooltool is up to these days
<crimsun> does edubuntu still wish to proceed down "best of class"?
<LaserJock> in terms of app selection?
<crimsun> yes. my concern, admittedly possibly unwarranted, is cluttering said namespace.
<LaserJock> well, I think perhaps we're heading into sort of a two-pronged approach
<LaserJock> having good, "best of class" defaults, but also having a decent "here's everything edu in Ubuntu"
<crimsun> pretty sensible
<nubae> LaserJock: u're right, I must have tested browse on my other machine from the PPA
<nubae> on this machine it doesnt, launch, so I can do a full test
<nubae> LaserJock: +1 on what u said above
<nubae> we need quality and breadth
<LaserJock> there's enough demand for making as much educational stuff available as possible that I don't think it's helpful for us to get totally exclusive
<LaserJock> however, we also can't maintain all apps at a high level
<nubae> well, thats where we should find a way around that
<LaserJock> I doubt we can
<nubae> well ubuntu studio does for example
<nubae> and its promoted officially by ubuntu
<LaserJock> no, it doesn't
<nubae> sure, the apps it uses are not all in main
<LaserJock> that's not what I meant
<nubae> thats the only limitation I saw with us not being able to carry universe apps
<LaserJock> what I mean is that we can't really maintain all edu apps in Ubuntu at a sufficiently high quality
<LaserJock> we need to choose some to focus on primarily
<nubae> sure thing
<nubae> we just need to cover all the areas
<LaserJock> generally we do that by moving those to Main, but it doesn't *have* to be that we
<nubae> make it usable for a school
<LaserJock> s/we/way/
<nubae> I think that step is just putting too much responsibility on mainly your shoulders
<LaserJock> well, right now, regardless it's on my shoulders
<LaserJock> we don't have an edu MOTU either
<LaserJock> hopefully we can fix that though :-)
<nubae> yes, but if its in universe then u dont have to move it back and forth
<nubae> like the blender story :-)
<LaserJock> well, but currently it's a lot easier in terms of the CD to get them into Main
<LaserJock> and they *should* get better Canonical support
<nubae> and you're gonna have a right time with sugar... theres like 100s of apps for it
<nubae> but the cd isnt even shipped anymore, do we really wanna focus on that?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what to do with schooltool either :(
<nubae> have u looked at its current state?
<nubae> u should talk to Tom Hoffman
<nubae> he'll be pretty straight about whether he thinks it should be there or not
<LaserJock> well, they kinda separated from Edubuntu
<LaserJock> they now have a pretty extensive PPA going on
<LaserJock> it might take some serious work to get that back into Ubuntu proper
<nubae> yeah they did that to have seperate areas for development
<nubae> there were too many modules that would end up being a massive package
<nubae> but they are working on getting back to being able to do just apt-get install schooltool
<nubae> I guess until thats the case it should remain out
<nubae> LaserJock: for sugar-browse, which packages should I update to test?
<LaserJock> if you just enable the -proposed repo it should give you a list of upgradable packages
<LaserJock> it should be python-hulahop and  hulahop
<LaserJock> or maybe just python-hulahop
<nubae> no just hulahop
<nubae> python-hulahop was already latest
<LaserJock> nubae: I think you should do a few MIRs for jaunty
<LaserJock> nubae: hmm, odd
<LaserJock> nubae: is that hardy or intrepid?
<nubae> MIR = main inclusion report?
<nubae> intrepid
<LaserJock> nubae: yes
<LaserJock> both hulahop and python-hulahop should be version 0.4.6-0ubuntu2.1
<nubae> bad news... not working :-)
<nubae> maybe I need to reinstall browse for the user in question too
<LaserJock> perhaps
<nubae> 2.1?
<LaserJock> yes
<nubae> hmmm, then something is wrong cause I have just 2
<LaserJock> the "bad" one is 2, the fix is 2.1
<nubae> ok, let me list u my proposed packages....
<LaserJock> did you enable intrepid-proposed
<nubae> wait... I need intrepid-proposed universe too I suppose
<LaserJock> yep
<nubae> heh, the edubuntu main thing has me confused
<nubae> I just remembered sugar is in universe of course
 * LaserJock thinks the archive reorganization will do nubae good
<nubae> so what does doing a MIR involved?
<LaserJock> read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess
<LaserJock> I gotta run
<nubae> k... any ideas on what I should MIR?
<LaserJock> something you want to see on the CD, something you want us to focus on
<nubae> k, well blender should be easy
<LaserJock> oh, bluefish would probably be the easiest
<LaserJock> to replace screem
<nubae> k
<LaserJock> blender might take a little bit
<LaserJock> anyway, I just thought it might be fun for you to get a taste for it :-)
<nubae> :-)
#edubuntu 2010-01-04
<Phelashio> hi ogra
<alkisg> Edubuntu now has HAL on the DVD, is it also a target for us not to have HAL in Lucid?
<ogra> what for would you use it ?
<alkisg> ogra: hi - happy new year. I don't want to use it - I'm just saying that maybe we should be looking at the seeds to see what program pulls is in the DVD, so that maybe we remove or update that program...
<alkisg> *pulls it
<ogra> well, indeed
<ogra> happy new year as well :)
<alkisg> ogra: do you know if kubuntu lucid will ship without hal?
<ogra> yes, it should
<ogra> xorg doesnt use hal anymore
<ogra> xinput was the only thing that kept it on the CD to my knowledge
<alkisg> OK, then we'd better look at the edubuntu seeds as well.
<ogra> yup
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> I've got this email, someone named dhillon-v10 would like to join the bugsquad
<highvolt1ge> morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> highvolt1ge: hey there
<sbalneav> so, what's the process for adding someone to bugsquad?  Do we just do it, or do we have to vote on it?
<highvolt1ge> sbalneav: just do it
 * ogra always just added people unless it was for the -members team
<highvoltage> right, atm the only ones we have to vote for is -members, and then when the developers group is set up for uploads in the archive re-org we'll vote for those members as well
<highvoltage> but for the other groups it doesn't do any harm adding random people.
<sbalneav> ok, I'll add him then.
<sbalneav> If it's alright with everyone, I'll sort of "take ownership" of managing the edubuntu-bugsquad (approving members, etc.)
<ogra> oh
<HedgeMage> Hi, all
<ogra> i'm still admin there
 * ogra fixes that
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: any luck so far getting set up to grab the edubuntu Drupal stuff?
<alkisg> stgraber: I'd like to include some patches to iTalc, like e.g. the reboot/shutdown one (LP #367960), would it be appropriate if I uploaded them to https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-dev/+archive/ppa ? (so that we start using that ppa, like it was said on the list some time ago...)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 367960 in italc ""power down" request fails on 9.04; logout instead" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/367960
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: not that I've tried that hard yet, but no. I'll get on it now
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I'm not sure how other people would feel about it, but I quite like a textured look like the first image on http://www.webupd8.org/2009/11/6-nice-xsplash-themes-for-ubuntu-karmic.html
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I do think the texture is pretty, I'm just not sure how we'd make it work with a very light or predominantly light backgrounded theme.
<HedgeMage> brb dogwalk
<alkisg> Ugh that page loads slllloooowly on ltsp clients... :(
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I'll have those tarballs for you ready in a few mins
<sbalneav> alkisg: that page is loading sloooowly on a full workstation for me :)
<alkisg> Ah, ok then :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: awesome -- I'll see if I can mess with them in any downtime I have today.
<sbalneav> I think the 50,000 social networking icons on the side kills it.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: ok, I promise we'll keep it on 49999 or lower
 * sbalneav resists from making an "iiiitts oooover 9000!!!!!" joke
<HedgeMage> lol
<highvoltage> sbalneav: heh, yes not the completely right place for that
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: busy uploading to somewhere you can get it, it's ~95MB and my internet connection only has 512kbps up, so it will take a few minutes, I'll ping you when it's done
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: np, I'm in no rush
<HedgeMage> Wow, that's funny...I hacked up a little Drupal module last night to get identi.ca group stuff into activitystream (which previously supported users but not groups), and mentioned it on identi.ca -- it isn't even on drupal.org yet and apparently three people are using it.
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: awesome, I'd love seeing that on the edubuntu site
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: np!
<sbalneav> What's the apt or dpkg magic again that shows what packages DEPEND on a package?
<sbalneav> i.e. I'd like to find which packages depend on libssh2-1
<sbalneav> i.e. to find out who's using it.
<dgroos> Hi All
<dgroos> I hope that the many who had holidays recently...
<dgroos> had a great one.
<dgroos> I want to do a fresh Karmic Edubuntu install.  Is there a way to install it from a CD?  My server doesn't do DVD's, I don't think...
<dgroos> Do I just install Ubuntu Server and then click a bunch of add ons?
<sbalneav> dgroos: usb dvd drive? :)
<dgroos> The server doesn't boot from USB, I tried that a while back.
<dgroos> at least with a usb flash drive... same diff?
<alkisg> dgroos: you can either boot from a cd and "chainload" to dvd, or you can try a script I made just for this purpose
<dgroos> PS congrats on the new flashy membership!
<alkisg> If you have a second pc handy nearby, you boot this pc with the edubuntu dvd, and the script automatically shares it on the network for the server to boot from it
<dgroos> alkisg: I should have guessed you had a script for just such a situation :D
<dgroos> and congrats to you as well!
<alkisg> dgroos: here it is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot#line-75
<alkisg> You just run it, and you must have a dhcp server nearby (e.g. a router) - nothing else should be needed...
<sbalneav> perfect.
<dgroos> So, can I connect both the new-to-be-server and the PC-with-the-dvd-in-it-and-the-script-running on the same network that is running my thin clients?
<alkisg> dgroos: hmmm no, better not, because then you'll have 2 boot servers
<alkisg> E.g. then the thin clients might start with the edubuntu live cd, or the server might start as a thin client :D
<alkisg> But if you can temporarily remove the filename directive  from dhcpd.conf, then it'll surely work
<dgroos> To do this I would open dhcpd.conf and temporarily remove which?
<alkisg> #    if substring( option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9 ) = "PXEClient" {
<alkisg> #        filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
<alkisg> #    } else {
<alkisg> #        filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img";
<alkisg> #    }
<alkisg> i.e. put # in front of those, and run: sudo service dhcp3-server force-reload
<dgroos> Will do.
<alkisg> dgroos: but if you don't have anyone working on the thin clients ATM, you can also try it without modifying anything - it might work
<alkisg> (i'm not sure if proxydhcp takes precedence over plain dhcp for the filename part)
<dgroos> alkisg: I'm looking over the above reference page and see the section called, "Automation script".  So... can I pretty much ignore the rest of the page (quite a few parts I'm not sure what they mean)?
<alkisg> dgroos: right, ignore all of the rest of the page :)
<dgroos> :D!
<dgroos> Thanks, I think I can do this then!  Thanks for sharing your creations on the wiki and here on the irc!
<dgroos> I'll be getting here pretty early tomorrow morning... I'll let you know how it goes.
<alkisg> Nice, I hope it helps
<sbalneav> alkisg: So, excited?
<alkisg> About the libpam-ssh? Sure!
<alkisg> Not for the ltsp part - the "user observed" functionality will remain the same there
<sbalneav> No, it'll improve
<sbalneav> no more crappy password handling
<alkisg> But for non-ltsp labs, it'll make user administration as effortless as it is in ltsp labs...
<sbalneav> i.e. if you type the password wrong, we can actually ASK for it again :)
<alkisg> That isn't observed by the user - except for the case when he types his password wrong...
<alkisg> Much cleaner, but for the teacher/sysadmin it isn't really important
<alkisg> While simplifying user administration in non-ltsp labs, is very important ;)
<sbalneav> Oh, well, all the really deep magic never makes an impact on the end user.
<sbalneav> the whole goal of ltsp was to make it indistinguishable from a full fledged desktop as much as possible :)
<alkisg> It'll make it also easier for fat clients... :)
<sbalneav> yep
<highvoltage> fp
<sbalneav> FrontPage?
<alkisg> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP
<highvoltage> First post :)
<highvoltage> it was meant for another channel
<highvoltage> in one of my local channels we have a meme to see who can get first post of every day
<sbalneav> Ah
<sbalneav> I believe it's
<sbalneav> "FRIST POST!!!!!11111oneone"
<sbalneav> :)
<highvoltage> yeah if there's enough time to type it out
 * alkisg is in the same timezone with highvoltage :)
<highvoltage> if there is I usually include a cos(0) somewhere in there to
<highvoltage> *too
#edubuntu 2010-01-05
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<sbalneav> hey there
<HedgeMage> What's up?
<sbalneav> Mapping out some stuff we need to write for ltsp
<HedgeMage> nifty
<stgraber> ok, DVD build issue fixed (chinese translations were blocking the build process), we "should" have daily builds again tomorrow
<sbalneav> \o/ for stgraber
<stgraber> I just had to nag the right guy for a day to get it fixed ;)
<sbalneav> stgraber: mvo took on the gksu bug.
<sbalneav> I'll see if he'll fix it shortly
<stgraber> great
<stgraber> we have alpha-2 planned for next week, would be great to have the netbook packages working (not the instaler work but at least have the right packages on the DVD), fixed sabayon and working LTSP
<stgraber> highvoltage sent an e-mail to Mads Rosendahl to see if he's interesting in working on some backgrounds (he's the guy who did the current ldm background I use in Ubuntu)
<stgraber> would be great to have the new artwork soon enough so we can fix the few details that we didn't think of and spend more time on other stuff like the splash
<sbalneav> Cool.  I'd love to get gksu fixed.  The fix is simple, but since I've pinged mvo, I'd like to give him at least a couple of days to fix it himself.
<sbalneav> How "late" could I leave off twisting your arm to make the change?
<stgraber> if we want to have it for alpha-2, that'd be next Monday
<sbalneav> ok, so if I don't hear anything by say, saturday, would you be willing to push this through?
<stgraber> sure, you have a bug number for that and mvo subscribed to it right ?
<sbalneav> yeah, one sec...
<stgraber> found it
<stgraber> it's already schedule for alpha-2 so mvo will be poked by the release managers to get it done
<sbalneav> bug #501559
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 501559 in libgksu "libgksu fails to start many programs, fails with: assert g_str_has_prefix str != NULL" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/501559
<sbalneav> it's dead-simple to fix.
<sbalneav> So simple, even *I* figured it out :)
<stgraber> I guess mvo will probably want to check that the change that went upstream is the same as the one we used to have as a patch
<stgraber> and that it's not turning on some other weird stuff ;)
<HedgeMage> all: highvoltage suggested taking the module I wrote last night for frogandowl.org and adding it to the edubuntu.org revamp... it grabs any posts to an identi.ca group and brings them to the web site.
<HedgeMage> If we want to do that, that's great, but it would really help if we can generate some traffic on there so it doesn't look dead.
<HedgeMage> You are all very talkative all of a sudden, so I thought it would be worth mentioning :)
 * HedgeMage wonders if she's talking to herself
<sbalneav> Sorry, switched back to edit my wiki page...
<sbalneav> lemme read...
<stgraber> do we have an edubuntu group on identi.ca ?
<HedgeMage> yes
<stgraber> ok, joining it then ;)
<sbalneav> Seems like a good idea.  Although I must admit, my advancement on "social networking technologies" pretty much stopped at irc and netnews :)
<sbalneav> But I understand this stuff's important the the "Net Generation".
<sbalneav> HEY YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!
<HedgeMage> hehe
<HedgeMage> I'm not a huge fan of it for its own sake, but boy does it seem to get people's attention.
<HedgeMage> I wrote that module at 1am and in a few hours, 3 sites were using it including ubuntu-co.com
<HedgeMage> So, I agree with highvoltage that it'll probably help us get some more activity going around here.
<sbalneav> lol, that's a pretty fast adoption rate :)
<sbalneav> HOLY CR*P WHAT'S THIS FLASHMOB DOING ON MY LAWN?!
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: lol
<HedgeMage> Score!
<HedgeMage> Figured out what was wrong with the edubuntu.org DB and got it down from 180MB in size to 2.0MB
 * HedgeMage does victory dance
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: would we need a tag for edubuntu? I guess it's an unique enough name so that we can just search on edubuntu? or not?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: we don't need a tag, we already have a group.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: as long as "!edubuntu" (sans quotes) appears in a post it will be posted to the group
<highvoltage> ok cool
<HedgeMage> The upgrade is done
<HedgeMage> I also beat the db into submission
<HedgeMage> it's only 2.9MB now instead of 180MB
 * HedgeMage rocks
<HedgeMage> I've installed a few modules we'll need
<HedgeMage> I'm on a roll :P
<HedgeMage> the DB thing pleased me incredibly.  That DB size on a site as simple as edubuntu.org is insane -- it was really bogging things down.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: Anyhow, when I'm not so sleepy I have stuff to run by you... we can set up a private repo on github.com to collaborate, if that works for all.  I already have all of my work under git so it's easy to follow.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: sound like a plan?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: awesome :)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: why was it so big?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: yep sounds like a plan
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: The sessions table hadn't seen a deletion in a matter of *years*
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: Either someone went crazy editing parts of settings.php they shouldn't have, or the db user's permissions on the live site's DB were wrong.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I took the existing DB, truncated the sessions table, used a clean Drupal install with only the content files and images migrated over, and upgraded that.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: it's working nicely.
<highvoltage> cool
<HedgeMage> You may not see a lot of new work out of me for the next few days as I'm prepping to move.  However, after we are settled in I will make sure this gets knocked out.
<highvoltage> thanks HedgeMage
<highvoltage> you do indeed rock :)
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> Thanks :D
<HedgeMage> If you feel like I'm stepping on your toes at any point, let me know.  I just pushed through the upgrade myself because I had to muck with the DB and it seemed easier that way since I do it a lot.
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I created the project here: http://github.com/HedgeMage/edubuntuorg but I won't push the files until I free up a private repo for them (there is user info in the DB such as unsalted password hashes, email addresses, etc)
<HedgeMage> But for now I can get my notes and such in
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: ok
<HedgeMage> :)
 * HedgeMage is in babbly overtired mode, please forgive her
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: well I'd rather let you step on toes (including mine) as long as there's progress :)
<HedgeMage> hehe
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I'm in a dazed and just got up a few minutes ago and doing some support at the same time mode so maybe it balances out :)
<HedgeMage> heh
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: okay, I just did a brain dump into http://github.com/HedgeMage/edubuntuorg/issues so feel free to take a look and add anything I missed, comment, whatever
<HedgeMage> that goes for everyone else, too ^^^
<HedgeMage> I'm going to attempt sleep until the munchkin wakes me up
<HedgeMage> see you all later :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> stgraber: Looks like mvo fixied it.
<stgraber> yep
<sbalneav> He's good people.
<dgroos> alkisg: Worked great.  My server w/out DVD now has Edubuntu.
<alkisg> dgroos: nice! Did it give you any trouble till it worked?
<dgroos> The first time I tried it it froze at copying 22%, but the second time worked flawlessly :)
<dgroos> I added a couple of sentences to the wiki page, mainly highlighting the utility of the automation script.
<alkisg> Heh... I didn't ask the page author when I put the automation paragraph, I hope he doesn't mind :)
<alkisg> I just thought I'd put it somewhere, and that page looked like the best place
<dgroos> I'm thinking...
<dgroos> For a novice user such as myself, a page like that is overwhelming.
<alkisg> So maybe I should create a different page, or a subpage, with just instructions on how to use the script?
<dgroos> If you hadn't recommended the page to me, I'm not sure I would have gone so far down that page to the Karmic script, there was so much there I didn't get.
<dgroos> Maybe.
<dgroos> I wish I had a grand view of the wiki site (I hope to be involved in the wiki hug day) so i could suggest something.  But a new page, especially with a link from the Edubuntu install page, would probably be the best bet.
<alkisg> highvoltage: ^^^ do you think it'd be better if I put it as a page somewhere in the edubuntu wiki?
<dgroos> That web page starts out by saying that this is highly experimental and I get the impression that your script is past the alpha stage :)
<alkisg> :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: sounds like a good idea. we don't seem to have a sub-section for howtos/docs atm
<highvoltage> alkisg: seems like we should :)
 * alkisg thinks edubuntu is mostly about providing solutions with the existing tools, so such a section would be nice to have :)
 * HedgeMage peeks in
<Lns> Hey all
<Lns> Does anyone know of a "session timer" for things like limiting a user's session to, say, 1hr. a day (think of things like public internet terminals in libraries, etc.)
<HedgeMage> hi, Lns
<HedgeMage> No, I don't, sorry.  I don't run a public lab, and my son's computer time is limited with a new and cutting-edge technology called "parenting" ;)
<HedgeMage> Lns: Do you use identi.ca?
<Lns> hahaha
<Lns> nope, never heard of identi.ca - sounds like an openID thing
<stgraber> it's an open source twitter
<HedgeMage> Lns: You can use openid to log in -- it's an open source microblogging service.  Think twitter but less "I ate a bagel" "now I'm going to the restroom" and more "hey it's 1am and I just wrote a module for X that does Y"
<HedgeMage> Lns: Anyhow, there's an edubuntu group on there we're trying to increase traffic on as part of the new web site and generally trying to up edubuntu's visibility
<Lns> so it's more of a project/community based micro-blogging initiative?
<HedgeMage> Yeah, more due to its user community than a technological difference.
<HedgeMage> I actually was not a big fan of microblogging at all until the other morning I wrote a Drupal module for another project, mentioned it on identi.ca just because it uses one of their apis, and then it was live on 3 sites in just a few hours, with lots of feedback for improvements to it.
<HedgeMage> I hadn't even posted it to drupal.org yet or released a public beta!
<Lns> that sounds like something that could gain a lot of traction
<HedgeMage> Yep :)
<HedgeMage> I think it will be good for raising edubuntu.org's profile, though highvoltage gets credit for thinking to integrate it with the new site.
<HedgeMage> Funny how I wrote the module that does the integration and hadn't thought of using it :o
 * HedgeMage == dork
<Lns> hahaha
<Lns> I think it would be great for any community-based project, technical or not!
<Lns> so would this be like multi-user feeds?
<alkisg> Lns: about the user-timing, I heard a program for that in the last month, was that you mentioning the subject again? Or should I look at the logs?
<HedgeMage> Lns: Edubuntu already has an identi.ca group.  The plan is to import all of that group's posts to our Drupal site, index them for our search, and show them in a block similar to what I did on frogandowl.org with their group.
<Lns> alkisg: I don't think I've asked about it for a few years actually..
<Lns> HedgeMage: can you explain "group posts" ? maybe i should just check out the site
<Lns> ooh ic.. that's kinda like something i'd seen for ubuntu devs a while back
<HedgeMage> Lns: basically, anything you post to identi.ca with !edubuntu in it becames part of our group's content
<HedgeMage> Lns: You can use @username !groupname or #tag to put a post to the attention of a user, make it part of group content, or give it a tag :)
<Lns> Are there official "groups" or can anyone put !edubuntu in it to get it in there? Say, some lame-o says "!Edubuntu sucks" - would that get processed?
<HedgeMage> It would get processed, but the group admin can remove posts or block users from the group
<Lns> gotcha
<Lns> sounds like a very novel idea
<HedgeMage> it seems to be catching on :)
<alkisg> Lns: found it, the program mentioned was https://launchpad.net/~nanny
<alkisg> I haven't tried it, but they said that it can be used to impose pc usage time limits
<Lns> thx alkisg =) I'll take a look at it!
<alkisg> http://projects.gnome.org/nanny/
<Lns> awesome
 * Lns doesn't really like projects that aim for a specific age group..."Nanny" with a baby stroller icon doesn't seem to fit well with public kiosk environments :p
<Lns> alas, the code might be useful anyway
<Lns> (besides Edubuntu anyway ;) )
<alkisg> Lns: if you try to install it, you need to also install python-gtop - it should be in the program's dependencies, but it isn't
<Lns> well the first thing I see wrong is that it requires gnome 2.28.. :(
<alkisg> so, sudo add-apt-repository ppa:nanny && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install python-gtop && sudo apt-get install nanny
<alkisg> Lns: i'm running it in 9.10 as we speak, it looks fine
<Lns> is it gnome specific?
<alkisg> Yes
<alkisg> (I think)
<Lns> that's what the docs say but you never know
<alkisg> The administration UI doesn't look childish at all. And the users don't see any UI...
<Lns> i'll boot up my 9.04 vm and check it out
<Lns> I think that has 2.28 on it..
<alkisg> !info gnome-terminal jaunty
 * alkisg slaps the bot to wake up...
<ubottu> gnome-terminal (source: gnome-terminal): The GNOME 2 terminal emulator application. In component main, is optional. Version 2.26.0-0ubuntu2.1 (jaunty), package size 107 kB, installed size 356 kB
<Lns> doh
<alkisg> See? slapping always works...
<Lns> looks like i need to upgrade ;)
<alkisg> Lns: why is there a jaunty package in the ppa, if it doesn't run there?
<Lns> meh..might as well re-install 9.10
<Lns> i dunno, i could try heh
<Lns> alkisg: is add-apt-repository something new? i don't have that cmd in 9.04 and apt-cache doesn't find it either
<alkisg> Lns: yeah it's new - I thought it was introduced in 9.04, but maybe it's >= karmic...
<Lns> yeah looks like karmic+
<alkisg> Lns: try a "locate add-apt-repository"
<Lns> i'll just install karmic..don't need a jaunty vm anyway
<Lns> it's outdated anyway ;)
<alkisg> ok
<alkisg> It's really handy for adding PPAs :)
<Lns> yeah seriously!! =)
<Lns> makes writing wiki pages much easier ;)
<Lns> zoiks...don't have a 9.10 iso =p ...and the task list gets longer. ;)
 * Lns <3 bittorrent
<Lns> Where is the "Places" Gnome panel menu configured?
<Lns> ah nm
#edubuntu 2010-01-06
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<stgraber> evening all
<stgraber> sbalneav: just saw your mail, got to know I'm not the only one who hates AD's broken implementation of primary groups ;)
<stgraber> unfortunately a lot of other companies are doing the same mistake ... I saw the same kind of setup on a lot of eDirectory and even openldap setup :)
<stgraber> my current workaround being a script that I put in /etc/ltspfs/.../ on the application server and that fixes the permissions at mount time
<stgraber> (it was that or doing some hack in the C code ....)
<sbalneav> I'll fix it in C
<stgraber> where "fix" means changing directory permissions to 700 I guess ?
<sbalneav> we'll & all the perms with ( S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR | S_IXUSR )
<sbalneav> so things will either be forced to either drwx------ -rwx------ or -rw-------
<sbalneav> I *hate* having to butcher perms like that
<stgraber> in a way it makes sense, as with fuse you simply can't enter another's users directory even if you had the unix right to do that (even root can't enter a fuse-mounted directory IIRC)
<sbalneav> Well, you *can* if you specify -o allow_other
<stgraber> but a user should have his own primary group and we shouldn't have to do it ...
<sbalneav> right
<stgraber> ah, right, it's just not default behaviour
<sbalneav> but, we'll fix this and put it to bed.
<stgraber> Yeah, one less hack I'll be carrying around ;) (I don't think I have any customer except Revolution Linux itself where I didn't have to install that hack)
<sbalneav> the likelyhood of ltspfs being used anywhere outside of LTSP's vanishingly small, so it's not going to hurt anything.
<sbalneav> It'll win us some good karma, even though it grinds my gears that I have to *break* normal filesystem perm semantics to work around a MicroSoft product.
<sbalneav> buuuuuut, whatever :)
<sbalneav> I suppose I could add a flag to allow for default behavior.
<sbalneav> i.e. ltspfs --dont-break-perms-on-account-of-stupid-ad
<sbalneav> stgraber: read my libpam-sshauth page?
<sbalneav> I've been hacking with some example code tonight.
<stgraber> well, I guess when we'll actually need that we'll just implement an optional configuration file on the server ;)
<stgraber> yeah, I read your mailing-list posts, lots of work to do there !
<sbalneav> yeah.
<sbalneav> that's a two or 3 month solid bit of hacking just to get something to the point of working.
<stgraber> oh, btw, I have two guys implementing my NBD proxy at Revolution Linux, so we should have rock solid NBD probably by the end of the week
<sbalneav> Realistically, I think LTSP6 will be ready for 12.04
<stgraber> sounds reasonable
<sbalneav> Ah, that'll be nice.
<sbalneav> That sit on the client or on the server?
<stgraber> on the client
<sbalneav> small?
<stgraber> basically, it'll be started in the initrd as the first thing at boot time, then connect to the actual nbd server and listen for connection from the kernel (so, instead of a remote nbd we actually connect on 127.0.0.1)
<stgraber> then it perfectly handles loss of connection and reconnection
<stgraber> without any I/O error
<stgraber> my proof of concept was 30 lines of python, now they reimplemented in C to have something that fits in the initrd and had to implement the nbd protocol completely in order to correctly handle loss of connection when getting data
<stgraber> but it was still only 200 lines or so today
<stgraber> and it depends on pretty much nothing
<sbalneav> They got a bzr branch somewhere?
<sbalneav> I'd love to have a look.
<stgraber> they have one internally I think (as backup of their laptop ;)), I'll have a look see if it's up to date or not. If it's I'll just push it some place public
<sbalneav> on bug day we also gotta look into the awk runaway thing on ltspfs too.
<stgraber> Gadi found what was happening there, basically every-time a udev event happens on a block device, we source ltsp_config again
<stgraber> and I didn't have SERVER defined in my lts.conf, making it start to guess what my server is
<stgraber> triggering a lot of awk/grep/...
<stgraber> my idea here is to implement ltsp_config caching
<stgraber> so first time it'll run, it'll dump the generated environment to some file in /var, then next time, it'll simply source it instead of doing all the magic again
<sbalneav> makes sense.
<sbalneav> we can implement that bug day.
<stgraber> oh, they actually updated their branch ! let me push that somewhere
<stgraber> bzr get lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/nbd-proxy.dev
<stgraber> not sure of how far they managed to go today with the implementation but at least I can start the proxy and connect to it, then mount the nbd device correctly here
<sbalneav> They also need all the standard goodies like a configure.ac, Makefile.am, etc.
<sbalneav> I'll get all that going for them.
<sbalneav> I should be able to push to that, yeah?
<stgraber> yep
<sbalneav> kk
<stgraber> I guess until there's a clear number of people wanting that a separate project, I'll just include it in ltsp-trunk as a subdirectory (similar to what we did for localapps)
<stgraber> it'll make it easier for distro to include as it'll just require a small packaging change and not having a whole new package to get it + depend on
<stgraber> ok, current code correctly handles reconnecting but doesn't work if there's data transfer at the moment where we loose the server, though I see they added a lot of debug so they're probably working on that now :)
<sbalneav> Who's the authors? All 3 of you?
<stgraber> Julien Desfossez, David Goulet and I
<sbalneav> k moving some stuff around
<stgraber> these two are our C/kernel coders :)
<stgraber> they're both starting a Master's degree in Computer Science working on the Linux Trace Toolkit (a kernel patch to trace pretty much everything that happens on your system)
<sbalneav> Type your full name with the accent so I can cut-n-paste it into Authors :)
<stgraber> StÃ©phane
<stgraber> (you don't even have a US int layout ? ;))
<sbalneav> stgraber: update your tree
<sbalneav> rev 4 pushed
<sbalneav> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/nbd-proxy.dev/files
<sbalneav> ./configure && make && make install should "do the right thing"
<sbalneav> there's even a very bad man page :)
<stgraber> yeah ! thanks
<sbalneav> Do they hang around in the channel? Have 'em pop by, say hello.
<stgraber> they usually aren't on IRC except when they need to poke someone but I'll try to get them to connect a bit more often :)
<stgraber> I already managed to get mgariepy to open his xchat from time to time, I can probably get some more to connect ;)
<sbalneav> I'll poke through the actual C code a bit tomorrow morning, see if I can help out.
<sbalneav> But now, to bed methinks
<sbalneav> To sleep, perchance to dream
<sbalneav> night stgraber
<stgraber> if you wait 2min, you'll be able to see some of the new ajaxy ltsp-cluster ;)
<stgraber> https://ltsp-control01.stgraber.org/loadbalancer/overview
<stgraber> here you go ;)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<dgroos> Good Morning sbalneav.
<sbalneav> Saw your posting
<sbalneav> Quick answer is: "there's no quick answer"
<dgroos> :(
<sbalneav> simply moving one /etc to another isn't likely to give you a satisfactory experience.
<sbalneav> the *usual* way this is handled by professional sysadmins is:
<sbalneav> 1) When you make a change to something in /etc, document it.  I have a wiki at work for this kind of thing.
<sbalneav> 2) When you upgrade, do a fresh install.
<dgroos> So, I did number 2.  Does that mean fresh install of users as well or can one migrate user stuff as well: directories and password info?  Any other critical stuff?
<alkisg> Did you keep your old /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow etc?
<dgroos> Actually, I'm still running the server plus I've got another server with the fresh install of Karmic.  That is, I've not done anything to the current running server.
<alkisg> Are you using ldap or anything else for user accounts? Or simple /etc/passwd?
<dgroos> No LDAP.  Just /etc/passwd.
<alkisg> If you don't find any other way, I have a python script (heh) for passwd/group/shadow/gshadow migration. You run it in the old system, export the user info in a .csv, and then you run it in the new system and import the .csv. It keeps all the info it can (passwords, expiration dates etc).
<alkisg> Downside: it's not internationalized yet, so greek only :( But you only need an export/import, so it shouldn't be too difficult...
<sbalneav> dgroos: sorry got called away
<sbalneav> 3) look at the new programs, make sure there's been no conf file changes for the ones you modifiedd
<sbalneav> 4) If not, then you move over THOSE conf files
<sbalneav> 5) If there have been format changes, then re-do your configs.
<sbalneav> keeping a bzr or git archive with copies of conffiles you've touched is another handy tool.
<sbalneav> And always, ALWAYS test
<sbalneav> You maintain a test server that you test your upgrade process on FIRST
<sbalneav> then once you've upgraded, you test that everything works post upgrade, with no regressions.
<sbalneav> Legal Aid has a testing plan that we follow.
<sbalneav> then you start work on the production servers.
<alkisg> I want to do something like RPC, they way iTalc does it: the teacher clicks on a button "I want to run this command on the clients", and a *listener* on the clients runs the command from inside their sessions.
<alkisg> So `ssh client command` won't do, as it won't be inside the user session
<alkisg> I'm thinking of using the python interface to inotify:
<alkisg> to write the command in a directory which can only be read/written by the user, e.g. ~/.myproject/commands-to-execute,
<alkisg> and a listener on the clients will be invoked because that file has changed, and it will parse it and execute the command
<alkisg> Does that sound sane?
<alkisg> Any better ideas?
<dgroos> alkisg and sbalneav--also got called away and students are coming!  back later and thanks for your ideas--I'll check them out!
<sbalneav> Well, at the risk of sounding like the thing I hate, is't DBUS BLARGHL!L!L!! supposed to handle this stuff? i.e. shouldn't some whacky message go on some bus to make some majic happen?
<alkisg> They are remote systems... I don't think dbus covers that case
<alkisg> (i.e. server/client are different PCs - not using LTSP...)
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> yeah, we're back to the "remote dbus" problem that it's up to me to solve :)
<alkisg> So I guess that's a classic RPC problem, but I want to use it from batch files or from python, so I'm not looking for any difficult libraries...
<sbalneav> alkisg: what about some kind of xmlrpc based daemon? Send it well-formed messages
<sbalneav> python's got excellent xmlrpc libs
<alkisg> How would I authenticate for that?
<sbalneav> http://docs.python.org/library/xmlrpclib.html
<sbalneav> Not sure.
<alkisg> Can you see anything extremely wrong with the file system based approach? :)
<sbalneav> How about doing something whacky and xatoms based?
<alkisg> Ah, xatoms... we already have a listener, right...
<alkisg> I'd still have to put authentication over it, but it's a thought...
<alkisg> !info grep hardy
<ubottu> grep (source: grep): GNU grep, egrep and fgrep. In component main, is required. Version 2.5.3~dfsg-3 (hardy), package size 149 kB, installed size 1144 kB
<sbalneav> I'd like to eventually integrate the xatoms listener as a thread within ldm itself.
<sbalneav> that'll be a ltsp6 thing
<stgraber> sbalneav: so ldm (the backend) would be doing some X stuff ? wasn't that something that was limited to the greeter (at the moment) ?
<sbalneav> yeah, so far it's only the greeter that talks X.  I dunno, I'm not committed to the idea, just thought it might save some moemory not having a looping shell process.
<sbalneav> But I'm not committed to the idea.
<sbalneav> What I was sort of hoping was by next BTS, I'd have the libpam-ssauth, libnss-sshauth, and libpam-dbusconnect components written, then we could map out all the chanes we want to do to ldm, etc, to tie it all together.
<sbalneav> I'm in the "tossing ideas around" stage
<stgraber> well, RL actually received some external funding for R&D on ldm ;)
<stgraber> and we need to do that by May (IIRC), so we'll probably be able to improve a few things
<sbalneav> Well, do you want to spend that money on ldm, or on getting libpam-sshauth going sooner?
<stgraber> (only issue at the moment is that I don't have someone to put on ldm development but that's another issue ;))
<stgraber> well, unfortunately the agreement with NLNet (the organism funding the development) is on improving LDM
<stgraber> so we can do some work on the side but the main focus must be ldm itself
<stgraber> let me find the actual agreement, I don't remember how detailed it's
<sbalneav> Well, one of the things I've wanted to do, but haven't had the time, is actually getting a proper glib main() into ldm
<alkisg> stgraber: could I somehow help more with iTalc? E.g. to integrade LP #367960 and put it in the edubuntu devs ppa for people to test? (/me is just trying to save stgraber some time...)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 367960 in italc ""power down" request fails on 9.04; logout instead" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/367960
<sbalneav> so we can proerly do event handling, etc.
<sbalneav> if your funding went to that, then when we get things going to move from screen-scraping to a proper pam implementation, we'll already have  glib'd mainline.
<stgraber> sbalneav: ok, so we have:
<stgraber>  - Improved GUI to allow for change between SSH and DIRECTX from ldm itself
<stgraber> - Support for other protocols (NX and RDP)
<stgraber> - Improved theming engine
<alkisg> libssh2 supports the "none" cipher
<alkisg> So maybe LDM_DIRECTX won't be needed anymore..
<stgraber> though these are more suggestions than must-have, the actual project title is "LDM improvement" and isn't defined in much detail
<sbalneav> Well, depends on how far you stretch it :)
<sbalneav> Do you want to set up a conference call on it at some point?
<stgraber> yep, would probably be a good idea, it's actually the only part of the NLNet-funded development I haven't started yet ;)
<stgraber> they also fund LTSP-Cluster current development + LTSP-Cluster website (that I'd like to become LTSP's at some point) + EC2 image for NX in the cloud (already done this one)
<sbalneav> Sure, name a time, I'll phone in.
<stgraber> ok, I have a meeting about it in 10 minutes with highvoltage and our CEO, things should be a bit clearer after that
<sbalneav> highvoltage there yet?
<sbalneav> Or still in SA
<highvoltage> sbalneav: still in .za
<stgraber> I'll also try to get someone here assigned for work on LDM so whatever we decide will actually be implemented by someone (I'm doing a lot of LTSP-Cluster myself, highvoltage does LTSP and Edubuntu at the moment, so I need someone else for LDM)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I'll probably have my visa in around 3 weeks
<sbalneav> heh
 * stgraber loves publicly funded development ;)
<sbalneav> cool, ping me, I'll phone in we can stratergize
<stgraber> I can actually speak about them on a public IRC channel :)
<sbalneav> synergize
<sbalneav> pie-in-the-sky-ize
<stgraber> oh, btw, the Edubuntu menu editor is almost done, I have mgariepy working on it at the moment and it works very well !
<stgraber> the idea was to have something working by today's meeting
<highvoltage> stgraber: will mgariepy be available for a quick update on that at the edubuntu meeting later on?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep
<stgraber> highvoltage: I booked both of you in Zimbra for the Edubuntu meeting
<highvoltage> indeed
<highvoltage> oops, wrong window, but... close enough :)
<stgraber> highvoltage: hehe, getting mixed up between jabber and IRC :)
<stgraber> meeting in 10 minutes !
<highvoltage> meeting in 5 minutes !
<HedgeMage> heh
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: what meeting?  I don't see anything edu on the calendar today??
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I think something went wrong, I added it to the goole fridge calendar but I don't see it there either :/
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage>  meeting in 1 minute !
 * highvoltage teleports to #ubuntu-meeting
<dgroos> ping alkisg
<alkisg> Hey dgroos
<dgroos> or is it alkisg ping?
<dgroos> :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: those sorts of things should really end up on the fridge so people know about them :P
<alkisg> :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: want to join #ubuntu-meeting for edubuntu meeting?
<dgroos> so I'm lunching now and have a chance to read what you've written. I thought you might have a script or two hanging around :)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: they have been the last few weeks... except for today :/
<dgroos> Can I try those 2 scripts?
<highvoltage> (sorry)
<alkisg> dgroos: sure - and if you want I can help you with vnc, as the gui is in greek :)
<dgroos> Awesome!  (you know the expression, 'it's greek to me?' :))
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: np, it happens, I was just confused (As usual)
<dgroos> You know what I did with the firefox pref file you gave me is run it through a babble translator and that got me through.  So, I could give that a go and as needed I'll accept your offer--'k?
<dgroos> Thanks!
<alkisg> dgroos: sudo python import-export-users.py
<alkisg> The first menu means "Users"
<alkisg> And it's menu items mean: 1) read the users from the system (done automatically), 2) import from a specific file format => you don't need that, 3) import from csv 4) export to csv 5) add the user list to the system
<alkisg> So you need to do:
<alkisg> a) on the old server, run (4), export to csv
<alkisg> b) on the new server, run (3), import from csv, and then (5), add those users to the system
<alkisg> And you're done. Always run it as root though, so that it saves the passwords etc
<dgroos> right--translations won't work so well in this situation...  I'll give it a try with the help you gave above and let you know tomorrow how it went--might need some vnc-help--we'll see.  How many different scripts do you have/use over a year's time?
<alkisg> I've got a large collection of them, ever growing, called "sch-scripts". I'm looking to internationalize them, but I'd like someone to proof-read my broken english...
<Lns> alkisg: i can help with that if you'd like
<alkisg> Lns, sure, I'd like that. Because if I try to ship it with broken english, and someone corrects me afterwards, I'd have to change all of the .po files as well :)
<Lns> just let me know where you need me to proofread
<Lns> do you have the scripts available for d/l?
<alkisg> Yes they're in bazaar/launchpad/ppa etc, but I'm switching the main gui to python (from ncurses) so I'll need some weeks before I have something usuable again
<Lns> what's that, glade?
<alkisg> I'm also changing the menus to use standard .desktop files and xdg .directory files...
<alkisg> Before, it was using whiptail for the ncurses dialogs, and only some of the scripts (like the import/export users) were using py/glade
<alkisg> Now the main gui will be using pygtk, with no glade, as it'll be mostly constructed live
<Lns> cool!
<alkisg> It'll basically have 3 tabs: users, PCs and file system, and 4 menus: "generic actions", "actions for users", "actions for workstations" and "actions based on files"
<alkisg> E.g. select some files and scp them to the selected users, or select a video and broadcast it with vlc
<Lns> is it ltsp specific or no?
<alkisg> Some of them, e.g. "remove dhcp3-server and install/configure dnsmasq"
<alkisg> But it targets mixed-mode labs, both ltsp/non-ltsp, so only a few of the scripts are ltsp specific
<Lns> that's great though - many people will have mixed setups anyway
<alkisg> I want to try highvoltage's fat client script, if it works as good as ltsp does (of course with newer clients) then I might drop the mixed setups support and focus on thin/fat clients only :D
<Lns> is highvoltage's fatclient script what's being included in 9.10?
<alkisg> No, but it's going to be in Lucid
<Lns> err.that's what i meant =p
<Lns> hehe
 * Lns still has to count forward sometimes from 8.04
<alkisg> :)
<dgroos> alkisg: "...correct my broken English..."  Say what?!  I've not seen that once here on the irc.  Your English may well be better than mine.
<alkisg> Heh... thanks, but I'm sure that's untrue :)
<highvoltage> Lns: yes it's in lucid
<dgroos> Anyway, if it something I understand I'd be happy to lend it another set of eyes.
<alkisg> OK, you guys convinced me, the next sch-scripts version will be internationalized :)
<Lns> woohoo! more tools! =)
<dgroos> Well, the part I know is true is that you've not had a single spelling/gramatical error as I've noticed (and I don't go looking for them of course).
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: hi there
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, edge is the latest development version of launchpad available to the beta testers :)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: ahh :)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, hey my kernel just updated, mind if I restart and get back to you in like 5 mins.
<HedgeMage> np!
<dhillon-v10> brb
<highvoltage> yay, fitted in an hour!
<highvoltage> just copying and pasting to send the notes to the list...
<highvoltage> eek, there's something we missed
<highvoltage> next meeting time :)
<highvoltage> doodle isn't really working and it's a pain to choose every week
<alkisg> stgraber: will you be around in the edubuntu bug day? (for some iTalc-related stuff... :D)
<highvoltage> shall we make it a static time again, at least for a while?
<stgraber> highvoltage: next week, same time ? looks like we had everyone at the meeting (at least the council)
<stgraber> alkisg: I should be around, I can't guarantee to spend much time on iTalc though ;)
<highvoltage> stgraber: agreed
<stgraber> alkisg: I have most of your patches in my branch, waiting for the next upload though. I should probably upload that at some point.
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, alright I am back :)
<alkisg> stgraber: ok, understandable, that's why I'm trying to save you time with the patches ;)
<alkisg> Thanks
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: welcome back :)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, so what are we going to be working on
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: what have you done before? anything in particular you're good at or are you happy with HedgeMage just handing you out work? :)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: you can check out http://github.com/HedgeMage/edubuntuorg/issues/closed to see what I've already done.  Once we have a private repo, I'll commit what I have so we can collaborate more easily.  If you give me an idea of what you are interested in  and what you have experience with I can help you pick out what you want to work on.
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, I guess you can check my launchpad page: https://edge.launchpad.net/~dhillon-v10 that might give you a better idea :D
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, alright, I am good at web designing and programming, so I can pick just about anything :)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10:  and Drupal exp?
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: great
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, just started with it, learning the API
<nixternal> looks like the Edubuntu chapter might be slated for removal from the official ubuntu book
<nixternal> I am guessing the same is slated for the Kubuntu chapter as well
<dhillon-v10> nixternal, hi :D
<nixternal> sbalneav: would you say, if they rip edubuntu from the official book, that they should in fact keep LTSP but move it over to the server book? would you agree with that?
<nixternal> hi dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, I am working on a spec with the Ubuntu drupal team right now so, if you guys work with drupal it would be a good experience for me :)
<dhillon-v10> nixternal, sorry I am a little late with my docs. I will *definitely* finish then by the end of this week
<sbalneav> nixternal: That would make sense
<nixternal> sbalneav: OK, I kind of figured already and passed it on to the publisher
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, are you there ?
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: I do Drupal for a living, that's how I ended up helping with edubuntu.org
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: I'm in and out randomly, I'm working and my 6yo is home on break from school
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, awesome so you must be super good at it :)
<nixternal> yes, Edubuntu is getting ripped from the Official book, and the educational apps will just get a mention in the "other apps" chapter I guess
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: I try :)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, I see that some of the issues aren't really hard to deal with, just a little time and that's it
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: Right.  The only one I definitely want to do myself is the theme -- I want to make sure it's coded cleanly for accessibility, search-engine friendliness, and ease of upgrading.  I'll probably end up doing the back-end QA too, just because I look at this stuff all day every day and can probably skim through and notice problems faster/easier than most.
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I think we might as well make this timeslot semi-permanent, I've set it to repeat on the fridge calendare every week
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: nifty
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: are we doing these weekly or bimonthly?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: weekly
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, okay :) I am not really good with art stuff anyways so  I guess I can work with the site modules, what do you think
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: it helps keep momentum doing it regularly, we've been doing it weekly again for a while now and it makes a big difference
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: once we get the issues copied over, assign yourself one or two and have at it :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: cool
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, okay :) so should we start copying the issues
<HedgeMage> highvoltage, dhillon-v10: Do you two prefer that I set up a sandbox of the new site for us to work on and make regular commits of what we do there, or are you guys comfortable using drush to make a revision-control friendly db dump and committing yourselves?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage, dhillon-v10: if the former, I can just add the code for all the modules we'll be needing now, then we'll just have to enable as we go.
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: start whenever you want.  I have work I need to get back to once I'm done eating lunch, so I won't be able to touch it for a  few hours.
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, I prefer a sandbox if it doesn't take too much of your time, and if it does then let's go with the second on, what about you highvoltage
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: I do it a lot for work, it'll just take about 10 minutes plus however long it takes for DNS to propogate.
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I quite like the idea of having a sandbox site
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, okay then let's go with the second choice if that takes less time. I just got back from school so I am tired, probably going to sleep, so is it okay if I start sometime around evening
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, it seems like its going to take HedgeMage quite a bit of time so
<HedgeMage> 10 minutes isn't that much time :)
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: HedgeMage works quite fast, you'd be surprised!
<HedgeMage> I'll set up the sandbox
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, okay then :)
<HedgeMage> edubuntu.frogandowl.org work for everyone ?
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, HedgeMage I am off to sleep and will talk to you guys in the evening bye and take care, thanks again for giving me a chance to help out
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, that works :)
<highvoltage> I can't seem to resolve that host, probably my isp having some hang-ups
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I haven't set it up yet, I was asking if the URL was okay with you :P
<alkisg> highvoltage: do we have access to create a sandbox.edubuntu.org ?
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: aah, yep
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: it's just for us inernally so I don't care too much about the URL :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: I guess we could set up the dns so that sandbox.edubuntu.org goes to HedgeMage's server
<HedgeMage> sounds like a plan :)
<highvoltage> I think we used proto.edubuntu.org or something similar in the past
<HedgeMage> whatever works
<highvoltage> let me know when it's configured, then I'll file a ticket on RT
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: it's already don, but only as of a few minutes ago, so wait for DNS to refresh
<HedgeMage> I think mine only goes every 20 minutes IIRC
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: and thanks again for all the energy you're putting in to this :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: np :)
<alkisg> !info ltsp karmic
<ubottu> Package ltsp does not exist in karmic
<alkisg> !info lsp-server karmic
<ubottu> Package lsp-server does not exist in karmic
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server karmic
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.90-0ubuntu3 (karmic), package size 103 kB, installed size 1204 kB
<alkisg> !infor ltsp-server hardy
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server hardy
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.0.40~bzr20080212-0ubuntu7 (hardy), package size 75 kB, installed size 808 kB
<HedgeMage> Can someone please check and see if edubuntu.frogandowl.org has propogated yet?
<alkisg> HedgeMage: I see it properly in Greece, and we don't have the best dns servers here :)
<HedgeMage> cool :)
 * alkisg loves liquid layouts :)
 * HedgeMage too
<HedgeMage> alkisg: what you see on there now is just the default Drupal theme (called "Garland"), we'll be replacing it with the custom one as soon as it's written.
<dgroos> alkisg: tried the script and got halted there.  Here's output: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/352571
<dgroos> Am I doing something basic, incorrectly?
<alkisg> dgroos: is that with plain ssh? It's a gui app...
<dgroos> ah duh, I better ssh first, ay? :)
<alkisg> So you need at least "ssh -X"
<alkisg> dgroos: wait
<alkisg> How are you connecting/logging in on the server?
<alkisg> E.g. does it have a monitor, and you're sitting there? Are you connecting to it remotely?
<dgroos> embarrassedly I say, I was just typing it on a thin client!
<dgroos> I'll ssh-X...
<alkisg> dgroos: ehm, no, it should work from a thin client
<alkisg> dgroos: well... if you run "sudo gedit" on that same terminal where you tried to run the program, does gedit open ?
<dgroos> OK, I was sitting at a thin client, opened terminal, and just typed in the sudo python command...
<dgroos> Strange... no it doesn't, often though I've used gedit from the terminal...
<alkisg> OK, there's the problem
<dgroos> yea... restart server?
<dgroos> cure-all when not sure :)
<alkisg> You shouldn't have to... but sure, I'm all in for the easy solutions :)
<dgroos> Maybe I hurt it's feelings when I had it turned off during break ;)
<dgroos> alas... computer don't wanna reboot.  And, I need to head home.  Once I get it booted, if I can't get gedit to boot any initial thoughts where I should start poking around?
<alkisg> None at all - if you just logon on a terminal and you're doing "sudo gedit" and it doesn't start, I don't have a clue :)
<dgroos> Alright :)
<dgroos> I'll see what happens when I get it booted.  Have a good evening (12:30 your time?)
<alkisg> 1:30 - thanks, you too!
<dgroos> :)
<dgroos> (OK... gedit works now.  I'll be giving the script a try again tomorrow.  Let's give it up for restarts!)
#edubuntu 2010-01-07
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, hi there :)
<HedgeMage> hi, dhillon-v10, have a good sleep?
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, yup, I love sleeping :) were you working this whole time
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: working, parenting, the usual :)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, nice, so yah i will get working on moving the issues over as bugs into the website project then and after that maybe assign one or two to myself (modules)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: awesome
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, check this out, its awesome: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/computers
<HedgeMage> heh, seen it :)
<HedgeMage> cute, though
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: edubuntu.frogandowl.org has a copy of the site on it.
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: so we can work there.  If I'm online, ping me to commit often please (ideally we should commit at least every time we close a ticket, but having me pull from the sandbox that won't work when I'm not around)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: pm me if you'd like to get my jabber info for when I close IRC (it can be distracting sometimes as I am weak-willed and prone to chitchat :P)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, what's the pace you would like to see, like one commit everyday closing an issue
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: We want to get this done by the end of the month if we can manage to, but more importantly we want to get it *right*.  So, it'll be done when it's done ;)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, alright, see i was asking because I have midterm exams by the end of January so I'll be a little busy there :)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: No worries, I'm a single mom, a business owner, and about to move to a different state -- I know what being busy is like ;)  It'll be done when it's done.
<HedgeMage> With three of us on the job it shouldn't be too bad.
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, I'll try to get done with the tasks I assign myself before the end of next week :) that I can be sure about
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: cool, thanks :)
<sbalneav> Evening all
<stgraber> good evening
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<HedgeMage> hi, stgraber
<stgraber> sbalneav: did you see https://ltsp-control01.stgraber.org/loadbalancer/overview ?
<stgraber> (feel free to drag&drop, nothing is actually saved)
<sbalneav> stgraber: wow
<sbalneav> this ajaxy stuff's always pretty cool.
<stgraber> yep and really quite easy to implement ;)
<sbalneav> There a patch editor for simple-patchsys?
<sbalneav> like with cdbs I can say cdbs-edit-patch?
<stgraber> not sure, I'm usually using dpatch or quilt, simple-patchsys always looked to me like a for loop doing patch -p0 ;)
<sbalneav> ah, looks like you can use cdbs-edit-patch with simple-patchsys
<sbalneav> I'm digging into the ritzen-flargen-rarble-noogen gksu problem
<HedgeMage> ping: highvoltage
<Ahmuck-Jr> ack
<HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Jr: syn, then ack
 * HedgeMage ducks
<Ahmuck-Jr> :)
<sbalneav> gaaaar :(
 * sbalneav hits gksu with a hammer
<stgraber> usually hitting things with a hammer doesn't make them work any better ;)
<sbalneav> No, but it makes you FEEL SO MUCH BETTER
<sbalneav> We'll see if this works
<sbalneav> YAHHHhAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<sbalneav> \o/
 * sbalneav dances a merry jig
<sbalneav> :D\-<
<sbalneav> :D\-<
<sbalneav> :D|-<
<sbalneav> :D/-<
<sbalneav> wheeehehehehe
<HedgeMage> rofl
<HedgeMage> Anyone know what time zone highvoltage is in?
<sbalneav> he's in .za
<sbalneav> in 3 weeks he'll be in est
<HedgeMage> ahh, moving or visiting?
<sbalneav> Moving
<sbalneav> To .ca
<sbalneav> Montreal
<stgraber> Sherbrooke actually ;)
<stgraber> (150km away from Montreal)
<HedgeMage> Ahh. :)
<sbalneav> argh
<sbalneav> I keep forgetting that
<sbalneav> Somehow I got it stuck in my mind you're in Montreal, and it keeps popping forward.
<sbalneav> stgraber: Just posted a patch to Bug #501559
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 501559 in libgksu "libgksu fails to start many programs, fails with: assert g_str_has_prefix str != NULL" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/501559
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: Nope, I'm in Illinois, USA soon to move to Indiana, USA
<sbalneav> HedgeMage: heh, no sorry, that was for stgraber
<sbalneav> You I knew were stateside.
<HedgeMage> ahh, ok :)
<sbalneav> Well, let's home mvo will take that patch.
<sbalneav> hope
<stgraber> sbalneav: so you cherry-picked what you needed of the forkpty option and just dropped the ifdef for these ?
<sbalneav> Well, mvo said the reason why they wanted to get rid of the forkpty was because of... hold on lemme find the bug...
<sbalneav> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=535544
<ubottu> Debian bug 535544 in libgksu "libgksu 2.0.12 & tty_tickets does not match" [Normal,Fixed]
<sbalneav> tty_tickets
<sbalneav> since forkpty generates a new pty
<sbalneav> so, the forkpty way runs a sudo -v first, just to get a ticket
<sbalneav> then uses g_spawn_sync to actually run the command you want to run.
<sbalneav> WITHOUT forkpty being defined
<sbalneav> it was trying to just run the command, instead of the sudo -v
<sbalneav> but it doesn't do ANY handling of stdout/stderr
<sbalneav> so, the command dies with EPIPE
<sbalneav> I'm figuring that wasn't the intent of the original change
<sbalneav> rather, they just wanted to read/write to the sudo -v without forkpty
<sbalneav> so, I basically just had to remove a couple of overzealous #ifdef's
<sbalneav> and have the first execv run the verify command, instead of the real command.
<stgraber> cool, let's hope we'll have that uploaded soon (so we have sabayon working for alpha-2)
<sbalneav> humm
<sbalneav> might still have a problem...
<sbalneav> arrgh :(
<sbalneav> so, get this.
<sbalneav> gksu works great if I run it from a terminal now.
<sbalneav> if it's launched from a .desktop
<sbalneav> nothing.
 * sbalneav cries.
<sbalneav> maybe.... maybe....
<HedgeMage> poor sbalneav
 * HedgeMage hugs
<sbalneav> got it now
<HedgeMage> cool
<sbalneav> now it works from the .desktop file.
<sbalneav> yeesh
<HedgeMage> I'm trying to decide whether I should attempt to code what I need to code, or assume I'm too sleepy to do it right.
<HedgeMage> I need to be up for another 45 min at least, though.
<HedgeMage> (Mom has to bring food to a work function tomorrow and I need to put out the coffee cake to rise then)
<sbalneav> I was planning on doing other things tonight, but I've spent 4 hours going crosseyed over this.
<sbalneav> Mmmm coffee cake
<sbalneav> Night all, too tired to hack on.
<HedgeMage> good night, sbalneav
<rigderunner7> anyone up for trying to help me figure out usb mount issues
<HedgeMage> In case anyone is interested, Nick kindly handed over control of the edubuntu identi.ca group to me, so if you see spam let me know and I'll quash it
<alkisg> I'm using dl-ubuntu-test-iso to rsync the Lucid live CDs. I have FLAVORS="ubuntu kubuntu edubuntu" in my config file, but for edubuntu I'm not getting anything. Any clues?
<firestorm> Hi there. Trying to get x11vnc working to connect to ltsp clients. Used the following guide and have disabled ufw/firehol but get connection refused. https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients    I can confirm that x11vnc process is running once client has booted up. Thoughts?
<alkisg_live> firestorm: have you considered using italc instead? It provides client autodetection/viewing/controlling out of the box..
<firestorm> alkisg_live: do i install it into the ltsp chroot or just in the edubuntu ltsp server base?
<alkisg_live> firestorm: just on the ltsp server: sudo apt-get install italc-master
<alkisg_live> But do remove any other apps using port 5900 before that.
<alkisg_live> (you _can_ make it use another port if required...)
<firestorm> guessing that i don't have to rebuild the ltsp-image afterwards?
<alkisg_live> Do you have x11vnc installed on the chroot?
<firestorm> alkisg_live: i do
<alkisg_live> Is it using 5900? You'd better remove it and update the chroot before installing iTalc...
<firestorm> alkisg_live: ok so i'll make sure that x11vnc is not running in the chroot and will rebuild the ltsp client img
<alkisg_live> Sounds like a plan :)
<firestorm> will let ya know in a few mins ;)
<dgroos> Good Morn All
<dgroos> alkisg: ran the script and have csv of all users--so slick!  I could even click on the header and it would alpha in that column.  Not even user-admin can do that :)
<alkisg> firestorm: how did it go?
<dgroos> hmmm maybe better re-enter this comment (thought you were on line): alkisg: ran the script and have csv of all users--so slick!  I could even click on the header and it would alpha in that column.  Not even user-admin can do that :)
<firestorm> alkisg: wow ... it worked!
<alkisg> dgroos: thanks - so in the next sch-script version, you'll be in charge of english proofreading the tools ;) :D
<dgroos> I'm guessing there will be an issue when I try to import the users into the other setup--the first user on both systems has the same name.  What should I do?
<dgroos> For sure!  Shoot it my way :)
<alkisg> dgroos: remove that first user from the csv, so that all other uid stay the same
<dgroos> Right.
<alkisg> dgroos: then, using a backup of that csv, remove all other users except that first one - so that he'll get an account with the same password etc, but unfortunately with a different uid/gid...
<firestorm> alkisg: italc is amazingly impressive !!!
<alkisg> firestorm: some times, on some configurations, it has problems, like hanging etc. But usually it works, and it's really good :)
<dgroos> alkisg: so you're saying... what on which server?
<alkisg> dgroos: all tasks on the new server:
<alkisg> Create 3 replicas of the csv: (1) the original, (2) without the first user, (3) with *just* the first user
<dgroos> OK do I have to do the import of first user as It's already on the new server?
<alkisg> And, always on the new server, import the csv #2 first, and the csv #3 after that.
<alkisg> dgroos: no, you don't have to - it would just create another user with the same password etc
<alkisg> So if you already have that user, just skip the #3 csv
<dgroos> Right.
<dgroos> So now, can I just copy the home directories then? (I say hopefully :))
<alkisg> dgroos: better do that *after* importing the users
<dgroos> Sure, that's what I meant.
<alkisg> As some tools break the uids/gids when the users don't exist..
<alkisg> There's a how-to in the ubuntu wiki for backup/restore using tar if you don't know what commands to use
<dgroos> Excellent, I'll use it.  Now, time for me to put on my teacher hat and assess student work/learning :)  Thanks again for your help, alkisg.  I'll let you know how it goes.  Have a good afternoon/evening.
 * alkisg just installed edubuntu lucid and will be in and out for some time...
<firestorm> alkisg: the remote control feature doesn't seem to work or the window demo ... everything else seems good tho
<alkisg> firestorm: is it easy to restart everything, including the server? if not, could you logout from the "teacher" account and login again?
<firestorm> yup i'll restart everything
<firestorm> alkisg: restarting is quite easy when the edubuntu server is one virtualbox and the client is another virtualbox :)
<firestorm> alkisg: playing around with edubuntu/ltsp/pxe all in VMs
<alkisg> Heh... I also use vbox for testing
<firestorm> yeah the pxe network support is good ... performance is reasonable for a laptop without VM extensions - makes qemu a non-option
<alkisg> The new feature that implements bridging with packet injection makes network configuration soooo easy...
<firestorm> alkisg: yup i'm using it with a br0
<alkisg> Why do you have a br0?
<firestorm> alkisg: to have a fake network for comms between server and client ... i also give the server access to a real bridge so that it can bring in pkgs
<firestorm> alkisg: i would have thought a '/usr/bin/ica &' in rc.local would have auto started it but perhaps not
<alkisg> firestorm: I also have communication between server & clients with no br0. Italc-master (=ica) is autostarted on logon, so no need to put it in rc.local
<firestorm> what starts italc-master? can't see it in /etc/init.d
<alkisg> /etc/xdg/autostart/
<alkisg> It's a per-session thing
<alkisg> So if the students haven't logged on, you can't really "see" their PCs
<firestorm> alkisg: still no demo ... student VM shows 'establishing connection to 127.0.0.1:5858 ... ' repeatedly
<firestorm> 5858 is open
<alkisg> 5858? Why?!
<firestorm> alkisg: no idea?
<alkisg> firestorm: rebooting to fix my resolution, please wait if you want...
<alkisg_> Woah, loading evolution/firefox/empathy took more time than for the system to boot! Way to go, Lucid!
<alkisg_> firestorm: try this from the "teacher" account: avahi-browse -trp _italc._tcp
<alkisg_> What do you get?
<firestorm> alkisg_: i don't have a teacher account
<alkisg_> firestorm: the "teacher" account is an ordinary account that belongs to the "admin" group, so that it has access to the italc ssh keys
<alkisg_> He can run italc, while "students" (not in the admin group) can't
<alkisg_> I'm just using those terms to seperate between those 2 types of accounts, you don't actually need an account named "teacher"...
<firestorm> alkisg_: gotcha ... pasted output into privmsg window
<alkisg_> firestorm: are you sitting on ltsp221? Is there some other client logged on?
<firestorm> alkisg_: different user (that I am in control of) (non-admin) logged in
<alkisg_> firestorm: there should be 2 entries of italc there, I can only see one. Which one is missing? The teacher's or the student's?
<firestorm> alkisg_: teacher wasn't logged into ldm ... logging in now
<alkisg_> (sorry for insisting on calling them teacher/student but it makes it easier for my not-so-fluent English... :))
<firestorm> works for me :)
<firestorm> alkisg_: both users are now logged in but i don't seem to have any additional avahi-browser output
<alkisg_> firestorm: ps -ef | grep ica => is ica running for the teacher?
<alkisg_> If not: ica-launcher
<alkisg_> (it's a daemon, it won't finish, just leave it running...)
<firestorm> alkisg_: that did the trick
<firestorm> demo works now
<firestorm> wonde why i had to manually run 'ica-launcher' as teacher?
<firestorm> actually i did a quick chgrp admin teacher/key ... maybe that is why ica wasn't running
<firestorm> remote control now works ... but is too slow to be usable yet
<alkisg_> Yes it uses some not-so-good calculations for the controlling/demo speed... it'll supposedly be better in 2.0 which will hopefully be released this year.
<firestorm> gotcha
<firestorm> u a dev for it?
<alkisg_> Nope. Sent some small patches, but that was all.
<firestorm> fair enough
<firestorm> anyway i'd better try to get 4 hours sleep before work...thanks hugely for your patience and helping me get through it ... greatly appreciated
<alkisg_> You're welcome - hope it works OK for you
<firestorm> alkisg_: np night!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<alkisg_> Hey Scotty!
<sbalneav> mvo's looking at my gksu patch right now
<sbalneav> Hope we can get this put to bed for alpha-2
 * sbalneav crosses fingers
<HedgeMage> highvolt1ge: ping
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, hi :) what's up
<moldy> alkisg: ping
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: Not much...just working.
<alkisg> Hey moldy
<moldy> alkisg: did you want to discuss anything tcm-related? just asking because i saw you in #lns and Lns pinged me :)
<alkisg> Not exactly... I asked around if anyone could propose me of some easy way to do RPCs. I had in my mind ssh + python-pyinotify. Lns told me that you had such a method in tcm, but I suppose he meant the pgrep && cat /proc/pid/environ && get display etc script, right?
<moldy> alkisg: possible
<moldy> alkisg: i think xmlrpc is fairly easy in python
<alkisg> But that won't work for remote systems (non-ltsp workstations)
<moldy> alkisg: especially with twisted
<moldy> alkisg: pgrep etc? yes, it's a hack
<alkisg> moldy: I need authentication, that's why I thought of using ssh....
<moldy> alkisg: we just use it for now, until we have something better :)
<alkisg> How would I authenticate with xmlrpc?
<moldy> alkisg: ssl
<alkisg> It becomes complicated... while ssh client echo "command" > file is a one-liner
<moldy> true
<moldy> it depends on the circumstances
<moldy> what do you need the communication for?
<Lns> moldy: alkisg: yanqui and i were talking about this yesterday
<alkisg> If I were to give some days or even weeks on the whole mechanism, I'd probably use telepathy for that instead
<Lns> he seems to think that a simple pipe via an ssh socket would be absolutely fine for just about anything
<alkisg> avahi, xmpp, tubes etc, all useful for teacher/student collaboration
<alkisg> Lns: I want the command to execute from within the session, i.e. to have the whole user environment, session dbus etc.
<Lns> mkfifo, echo, etc.. just need ssh keys generated in the chroot, which might be able to be integrated into ltsp-update-*-keys or whatnot
<alkisg> So I can't just execute it with ssh, I need a listener AFAIK...
<moldy> Lns: yes, it probably is. i am not fond of doing low-level socket stuff in C, though.
<alkisg> Lns: mkfifo? that sounds interesting...
<Lns> alkisg: when you're talking about dbus and all that, sbalneav has some things to say about that
<alkisg> Lns: I haven't mentioned dbus
<Lns> alkisg: session dbus
<alkisg> I don't think it's suitable for RPC, it's only for local systems
<alkisg> I don't want to use it. But whatever command I'll run, might want to use it.
<Lns> hmm
<moldy> at least it's not often used for remote stuff, not sure if it can be used in principle
<alkisg> E.g. to logoff the client, you need to talk to the session dbus
<Lns> hold on...was renewing my car registration online ;)
<moldy> alkisg: i still don't know what your requirements are, though :)
<alkisg> moldy: I want to use it as a generic mechanism for the teacher to be able to execute commands on the students
<alkisg> E.g. "launch that page on firefox", "add that panel applet", "show that video" etc
<moldy> alkisg: and the students are remote workstations? or user sessions on the same machine? or both?
<alkisg> Both, I'd like to use it on both LTSP and non-LTSP installations (or even mixed ones)
<alkisg> ssh + a listener would work in all those cases...
<alkisg> Simple, maybe even naive, but I can't see any real downsides... :-/
<moldy> right. i don't think it really is much simpler than xmlrpc+ssl, though. but maybe that is just me :)
<Lns> alkisg: what's wrong with using italc for that stuff? isn't that geared for everything you're talking about anyway?
<alkisg> Lns, I can't script italc to open a video. The teacher would have to type that command.
<Lns> you can't use italc to execute commands on the remote machine?
<alkisg> I can, but I can't *script* it
<alkisg> In my sch-scripts, the teacher would be shown a GUI with 3 tabs: users, pcs, files
<Lns> e.g. mplayer path/to/video
<alkisg> Say for example that he wants to broadcast a video
<alkisg> He'd have to launch vlc in the teacher pc in broadcast mode, and in all the students in receive mode
<alkisg> The command for that is quite lengthy. It'd be better if he just had a "right click > broadcast" option
<alkisg> That's what I want to script with the sch-scripts.
<alkisg> And I can't do that with iTalc. I asked the developer if he'd accept patches for such a thing, of course *if* the code quality was OK.
<alkisg> I didn't get an answer...
<Lns> hrm
<Lns> isn't stgraber working on italc?
<alkisg> I also asked stgraber about this, didn't get an answer either
<Lns> hmm
<alkisg> I don't think he has enough time to invest in iTalc
<alkisg> But even in that case, iTalc won't have an "embedded nautilus". sch-scripts will.
<alkisg> So, "select 3 files and 3 folders, right click and select "send to this group of students"" will be possible
<Lns> i know this isn't what you'r egoing for but doesn't mplayer do broadcasting?
<alkisg> vlc is better for broadcasting. It's just difficult to set it up, that's why I'm looking for a script to automate the whole thing
<alkisg> So I'd like to have maybe 100 scripts for simple tasks like these, organized under a simple python GUI with the 3 tabs I said..
 * HedgeMage peeks in
<alkisg> Hi HedgeMage :)
<HedgeMage> hi, alkisg
<alkisg> We've already made the code to parse the .desktop files that describe the commands, and construct the menus from them (according to the xdg specs)
<alkisg> We also have the code for some dozens of scripts, but we'd like to double them
<alkisg> I hope we'll have something ready for Lucid, in a PPA.
<HedgeMage> So last night I looked at how to migrate website tasks/issues to LP.  It looks like we cannot add issues to a group, though, we need to add them to the edubuntu-website project, and to manage them we need highvolt1ge to somehow link the two?
<HedgeMage> I haven't used lp much so I'm not sure how it's all organized.
<moldy> alkisg: what is sch-scripts?
<alkisg> moldy: https://launchpad.net/sch-scripts
<alkisg> bbiab
<moldy> alkisg: btw, if anyone with some python knowledge has some spare time, we could use some help on tcm if we want to get it ready for lucid ;)
<moldy> i don't know how much time yanqui currently has on his hands
<moldy> and btw, right now, it should be quite easy to grasp the code
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, what we can do here is to manually copy over everything in those bugs, and then set their importance and status using the lp standards, I think :)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: my question was more whether I am correct that you can't post bugs to a group, you have to do it to the project?
<alkisg> Lns, moldy: do you have any plans to make tcm work in non-ltsp environments?
<Lns> alkisg: maybe, but it'd be more of an afterthought I think...
<Lns> or a 'hey this works in non-ltsp stuff too!' thing ;)
<alkisg> Yup, thought so... so we can't really join forces, the projects have similar goals but will work in different ways.
<Lns> sure.. of course I'm sure we can help each other out with the 2 separate projects
<alkisg> Sure, we have a lot of tasks in common.
<alkisg> Lns: but do give some thought on fat client support ;)
<alkisg> Lucid will have fat clients out of the box...
<Lns> oh of course, yes
<alkisg> Fat clients are essentially the same as standalone workstations
<Lns> yep
<Lns> of course, with fat clients we're talking about LTSP in a much different way
<Lns> i wish the terminology was a bit more clear
<Lns> but whatever =) it works so i can't complain one bit!
<alkisg> Right, that's why I was thinking that a more generic way to handle clients is required
<Lns> yeah
<Lns> i understand that point of view completely
<Lns> and it's a growing point of view for sure
<alkisg> A "daemon" running on the clients makes ltsp clients almost the same as any other clients
<alkisg> (listener)
<Lns> i guess i'm just not in the loop, because 1) I'm still on 8.04, and 2) thin clients have a great use-case for low-energy (i.e. not able to DO fat-client stuff) computing
<Lns> right, which is why i brought up the reverse-ssh pipe where you can pretty much dump anything into it from the server
<Lns> if it's in the chroot it shouldn't matter whether you're thin/fat
<alkisg> The bad with the the ssh channel is that it's outside of the user session
<Lns> no, that's good because you can handle clients that aren't logged in
<alkisg> True, but that's only good for administering the PC
<Lns> you could do it either way though
<Lns> i don't see a way of being able to do both with one method
<Lns> ianap though either
<alkisg> Correct, that's why I use both methods, i.e. ssh + daemon
<alkisg> (*want* to use 2 methods - I only have the ssh keys setup ready for now)
<Lns> yeah
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, sorry for the late reply and I misunderstood that part, you are right the bugs go with a project :)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: Ahh, okay.  I wish there were a way we could set up a branch, tag, or release so we could isolate issues related to the redesign
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: I think we need highvolt1ge for that, though
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, that's where we can make a new tag, and apply that new tag for every issue related to redesign
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, not sure, I think we can do this without him, but would like for highvolt1ge to look over this
<HedgeMage> ok
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, off to sleep, I don't have any homework today so I can transfer all the issues over to launchpad, and then you can look over them :)
<HedgeMage> awesome, thanks dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, np
<dgroos> alkisg ping
<alkisg_> dgroos: pong :)
<dgroos> So, starting where we left off... I started the new server, ready to put the csv on it and run your cool script.
<alkisg_> And?
<dgroos> (sorry, I was just finishing up helping some students) Well, I did ifconfig and it only showed the lo?
<alkisg_> You have a networking problem?
<dgroos> Yea, I think so...
<dgroos> I don't think I've got access to the network.
<dgroos> I looked at the /etc/network/interfaces
<dgroos> and I better check back to see what it was... end of day exhaustion...
<alkisg_> dgroos: try with ifconfig -a
<alkisg_> dgroos: and also, lspci -nn | grep Ethernet
<dgroos> and it lists all 3 interfaces, lo, eth0 and eth1
<dgroos> OK
<dgroos> good, all are now listed.
<dgroos> I don't see on that is set to broadcast ips
<alkisg_> dgroos: on servers, it's usually better to set up static IPs in /etc/network/interfaces
<dgroos> OK, I can find out how to do that for the port that goes to the wan, how about the one broadcasting ip's to the thin clients?
<alkisg_> It's on the same file
<dgroos> I'll check and see what my Jaunty /etc/network/interfaces file says and emulate that, sure?
<alkisg_> Yup
<dgroos> Thanks!
<dgroos> OK did that and restarted machine.  ifconfig show it has the info I put in but it isn't broadcasting ip addresses?
<alkisg_> dgroos: what do you mean "broadcasting"?
<dgroos> I mean to say, handing out ip addresses to machines that are connected to it and are requesting them.
<alkisg_> What internal IP did you use? 192.168.0.1 ?
<dgroos> I hooked up my laptop to both ports and it isn't getting an address.
<dgroos> yes
<alkisg_> Did you restart the server?
<dgroos> yes
<alkisg_> What's the output of: sudo service dhcp3-server status
<dgroos> unrecognized service (but isn't karmic using dnmasq or something?)
<alkisg_> Not by default
<alkisg_> How did you install ltsp?
<dgroos> Well, all I've done so far is do a fresh install with the help of your fine script which put the live CD up for PXE booting.
<alkisg_> Ah, so you haven't installed ltsp yet...
<alkisg_> Then you need to run `sudo apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone` and ltsp-build-client afterwards
<alkisg_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall#Installing%20on%20top%20of%20an%20already%20running%20desktop%20system
<dgroos> So I've just run the edubuntu install from live CD.  I'm thinking I better go back to the manual :)  I'll do the above then go to the install pages.  Thanks for your help again.
<dgroos> :D
<dgroos> I think I did check F4 at install time and didn't see the 'Install an LTSP server option'
<alkisg_> That's only available if you select "text mode installation" first
<alkisg_> (I think)
<alkisg_> I hope stgraber and highvolt1ge will get the live-ltsp + installation part ready in time for Lucid ...
<dgroos> alkisg: I'm trying to install ltsp software.  I can access the internet with Firefox, but can't ping google.com with Terminal.  I can ping our district web page, however.  Any idea?
<alkisg_> dgroos: probably your /etc/resolv.conf
<alkisg_> highvolt1ge: a bug with the fat client script: I have edubuntu installed, and instead of "break"ing on line 22, it "return"s, so it doesn't install anything.
<dgroos> Thanks, it doesn't look right.  I'll check how my other one looks.  Thanks :)
<alkisg_> highvolt1ge: so you should probably change that "return" to a "break"
<dgroos> alkisg: both the old and the new server have the same nameserver.  The old server (currently in use) has only the nameserver line, the new server that I'm setting up has a 'search' and 'domain' line as well (though both say, 'example.com'.
<alkisg_> dgroos: also, are you using a proxy to access the internet?
<dgroos> Well, the old server is running a squid proxy server but I thought that was only for the thin clients.  I was able to access the internet on the new server with Firefox, but not with Terminal...
<alkisg_> dgroos: does synaptic work? Can you install ltsp-server-standalone from there?
<alkisg_> Hey, edubuntu doesn't have evolution by default? Wow...
<alkisg_> Anyway, it's late here, goodnight all...
<dgroos> Yea, works great.  Thanks for the idea.  I'm confused, why can't Terminal get out onto the internet?
<dgroos> Thanks for your help!
<dgroos> G'night.
<alkisg_> dgroos: see if an "http_proxy" variable exists in your environment, if it does, it breaks internet connectivity, it's a known bug, so you should unset it before using apt-get. OK, bye :)
<highvolt1ge> HedgeMage: pong
<HedgeMage> highvolt1ge: okay, I'm just getting used to LP again... it seems that the edubuntu-website project needs to be tied to the group somehow?  and is there some way to make a branch/component/whatever to put all the upgrade/redesign issues in to keep them together?
<HedgeMage> highvolt1ge: you own it so it seems like you have to handle whatever needs doing :)
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I made you an administrator yesterday, I think you should have rights to do pretty much anything
<highvoltage> also, it's past 1am and I'm having trouble parsing that sentence (sorry that I haven't paid that much attention to IRC today)
<HedgeMage> oh, sorry
<highvoltage> no :)
<highvoltage> I *think* we need to make an "edubuntu" "product" on LP and link the site project to it
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: I know I'm an admin on the group, but I was wondering about the project https://edge.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website which is what I think we need to organize an issue queue
<HedgeMage> I haven't used LP in about 4 years, though
<highvoltage> you can already file bugs against edubuntu-website
<highvoltage> isn't that what we want?
<HedgeMage> yes, but I was wondering if there is a way to make a category or something just for the redesign so we can group those issues together
<HedgeMage> not sure what LP supports
<highvoltage> it supports tags though
<highvoltage> it's not the most elegant of ways to do it, but issues could be marked with tags to make them easier to search
<HedgeMage> ok
<HedgeMage> that can work then
<highvoltage> I think there might be more focussed ways, I think their all crude though, I think it's possible to create different development focusses (an LP concept) which you can target
<highvoltage> I'll check on that tomorrow morning and get back to you on that as well
<HedgeMage> ok, no rush
<HedgeMage> :)
#edubuntu 2010-01-08
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Just sitting here in the coffee shop, waiting for my son to finish his piano lession
<sbalneav> looking at bugs :)
<sbalneav> looks like I've got 4 or 5 good bugs to deal with for bug day
<sbalneav> Which reminds me
<sbalneav> I should blog about it.
<HedgeMage> when is bug day again?
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: ^^^
<sbalneav> HedgeMage: 12th
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, while copying over the issues do you want me to copy  the ones that have been resolved as well, or just the ones that are open
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: please do both, so we don't have to wonder what has or hasn't been finished
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, alright I am done with like 10 of those, just marking all of them confirmed :)
<HedgeMage> awesome
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, HedgeMage, I know I was added me to the website team but i still can't set the importance of the bugs, why is that?
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, you bugs are short and sweet, so not much work :)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: I have no idea, I'm not very familiar with LP
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, I work with ubuntu and kubuntu website, and since those projects added me to their team I was able to change the importance, maybe highvoltage knows why this is happening
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: maybe he has to make the team own the project instead of his account owning it?
<HedgeMage> I'm not sure
<HedgeMage> As I said I'm new to LP
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, :) okay I guess I can wait for sometime
<HedgeMage> brb
<HedgeMage> back
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, its all done :) took me 15 mins
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, now I'll add the tags and finish up
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: thanks...you rock :)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, nah, its just copying and pasting :) the next part is where I will actually do work
<HedgeMage> You have no idea how much I hate that sort of thing (I hated entering them in the first place).  I'd choose coding for an hour over documenting/data entry for 20 minutes any time.
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: anyone who makes me have to do less of it is tops in my book :D
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, yah entering them is a pain if you aren't used to it, I triage a lot of bugs so :) what's next
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> can you link me to the project so I can look at the list?
<HedgeMage> I thought I had it somewhere...
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, brb gotta eat dinner
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: also, are edge and regular LP operating on the same data, or do we have to make sure to use the same one?
<HedgeMage> ok
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, alright i am back, edge and lp use the same data, edge just might have some experimental stuff. here's the link: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bugs you might see that there's a tag on the side that says github, those are all the bugs that I copied from github
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: awesome, thanks!
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, np, now you said you wanted to tag some bugs as redesign right, which ones are they
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: sorry about that, back now
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: still around?
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, yup ;0
<dhillon-v10> :)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, wow that was a smiley fail
<HedgeMage> heh
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, so which bugs were the ones you wanted to have the tag redesign
<HedgeMage> I'd like everything we moved to have a tag referring to de upgrade/redesign so we can find them.  I don't want to worry about stuff that applies to the old site or the wiki
 * HedgeMage is all about focus, or at least tries to be when -- ooo! shiney!
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, alright :) so you like shiny stuff
 * HedgeMage == easily distracted
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, if there's nothing else atm that I need to work on, I'll get to finishing my homework can we continue tomorrow
 * dhillon-v10 thinks HedgeMage is busy
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: go for the homework thanks for the issue queue stuff :)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: just parenting, as usual :)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, alright then bye and good night :)
<HedgeMage> you, too :)
 * stgraber is trying to do some seed magic and get rid of some 800MB of packages from the DVD
<stgraber> I'm trying to only have the netbook remix packages on the DVD and drop the text installer to see if it works as I think it should ;)
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> I saw you on identi.ca :)
<stgraber> yeah ! looks like I managed to get a DVD image that'll only contain extra packages + the live environment
<HedgeMage> :)
<stgraber> with extra packages being LTSP and the netbook interface
<stgraber> just need to upload that and check tomorrow for the new DVD image
<HedgeMage> stgraber: ignoring the lack of theme, we do now have the identi.ca group integration on the new site: http://edubuntu.frogandowl.org/
<stgraber> yeah ! looks great
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> one tiny step at a time
<nixternal> you know, I typically do not like that theme because it is always blue, but it looks good with the Edubuntu colors
<HedgeMage> heh
<nixternal> Thu, 2009-01-08 22:01 â nubae   <- just need to hide that block on the front page :)
<HedgeMage> it's not our permanent theme
<nixternal> where is the permanent one?
<nixternal> don't make me go to email, I am to lazy :)
<HedgeMage> nixternal: mockups at http://imagebin.ca/view/KgCXBt.html and http://imagebin.ca/view/5n49WaF.html
<HedgeMage> nixternal: it's still under development
<nixternal> can we add one more logo to it? :p
<nixternal> I like it!
<HedgeMage> lol :)
<HedgeMage> good
<nixternal> haha, "random animal"
<HedgeMage> well, I wanted people to pay attention to the layout, not the content :P
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.90-0ubuntu3 (karmic), package size 103 kB, installed size 1204 kB
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server lucid
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.98-0ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 101 kB, installed size 1256 kB
<sbalneav> Morning all.  I'll be afk most of the day, as I'll be in a management training course most of the day
<dgroos> alkisg: around? asquare? atriangle?
<alkisg> Heh!
<alkisg> dgroos: shoot
<dgroos> problems from yesterday seemed to have cleared up :)
<dgroos> don't know why.
<dgroos> So, I'm working on importing the users w/your script.
<alkisg> Nice
<dgroos> I think I might have made a mistake when I changed the permissions to 777 for the csv file I created though...
<alkisg> I don't think the .csv permissions would matter anywhere... what do you get?
<dgroos> When I was trying to import the users (menu option 3) I got a message in Terminal: "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later."
<dgroos> I got this message about 50 times.
<dgroos> The only deviation I had to make from your directions was that when I ran the script...
<alkisg> Did you run it with "sudo"?
<dgroos> yes
<alkisg> Strange. Did you have any other programs open, e.g. the gnome users-admin?
<dgroos> and chose option 3, to be able to locate the file I had to select the button in the bottom right hand corner and select the other option from the dropdown menu of 2 options.
<dgroos> just firefox.
<dgroos> Also, it looks like it imported maybe half the users?
<alkisg> dgroos: would you mind if I connected to your PC with vnc so that we can both look at it?
<dgroos> No prob
<alkisg> run: sudo apt-get install x11vnc
<alkisg> then: x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
<dgroos> cool :)
<dgroos> this is less than half the users
<dgroos> Wow.... how much you charge?
<alkisg> dgroos: haha
<HedgeMage> Good morning all :)
<alkisg> dgroos: I'm guessing that the system is locking /etc/passwd to read the new users, and while it does that, no new users can be added!!!
<alkisg> Good morning HedgeMage
<dgroos> I wonder if there are license fees on this script and only allows 30 users at a time ;)
<alkisg> Lol!! :D
<alkisg> dgroos: I haven't tried it with so many users, so I'll debug it ASAP. The users should be fine now, though...
<alkisg> (I closed vnc btw)
<dgroos> hmmm... I ran the script again with option 5.  It went down the list with, '...already exists' and stopped on a user and seemed to hang there.  I waited about 15 minutes.  The mouse cursor was nowhere to be found so I control-C and the script exited w/ message...
<dgroos> File "import-export-users.py", line 210, in <module> gtk.main()
<alkisg> dgroos: aren't all the users imported?
<dgroos> I'm not sure?  Did you do them all?
<alkisg> I think so, wanna connect with vnc again?
<dgroos> I don't want to take your time without trying some more on my side though thanks very much.  I've got to teach now but will try again around midnight your time ;).  I'll let you know how it goes!  It might be OK after a restart :)
<dgroos> alkisg: Again, thanks so much for your time.
<alkisg> You're welcome...
<alkisg> !info karmic thunderbird
<ubottu> 'thunderbird' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, intrepid, intrepid-backports, jaunty, jaunty-backports, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, medibuntu, partner
<alkisg> !info thunderbird karmic
<ubottu> thunderbird (source: thunderbird): mail/news client with RSS and integrated spam filter support. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.0.23+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 11814 kB, installed size 35316 kB
<alkisg> !info thunderbird lucid
<ubottu> thunderbird (source: thunderbird): mail/news client with RSS and integrated spam filter support. In component main, is optional. Version 2.0.0.23+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 11814 kB, installed size 35316 kB
<MagicFab> ogra, pleia2 o/
<MagicFab> Hi all - I am playing with a test system and LTSP, I noticed when hardening the ssh server setup on LTSP th ethin clients are refused authentication (connection refused) because of the PasswordAuthentication=no setting
<MagicFab> I thought PKA was automatic. If it's not, how can can Iset the client to use only that ?
<alkisg> MagicFab: how would the users login? Automatically, with no username/password?
<MagicFab> alkisg, I meant the image doesn't even load - I am not referring to splash login
<alkisg> The image loads with nbd, that doesn't relate to ssh security...
<MagicFab> Hmm.... I see "After logging in, ldm starts a ssh tunnel and executes a X session on the server which is displayed through the tunnel on the thin client's X server. Using ssh here has the big advantage that you don't need to have a Xserver configured on the client and no unsafe TCP X transport is used as was done in older days of ltsp."
<MagicFab> (from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThinClientHowto)
<MagicFab> sorry I actually meant the opposite in my previous comment
<alkisg> ldm is the display manager, the one that gets the username/password from the user
<alkisg> That's when the image *finishes* loading...
<MagicFab> So all users need to generate RSA pairs and have that on the server ? I came across this when setting up remote access to that server.
<alkisg> RSA pairs would mean that you had some user storage on the client
<alkisg> That is not the (usual) case with LTSP
<MagicFab> I guess my question is what's the best practice to have both remote access to the server and proper settings for the clients.
<alkisg> You can limit password-enabled ssh to the ltsp-facing nic
<MagicFab> no, RSA pairs meand .ssh has more than AuthHosts in it (on the server)
<alkisg> It's a pair; you need half of it on the server and half of it on the client
<MagicFab> actually the client's would be within its image.
<MagicFab> right ?
<alkisg> But how would the users authenticate, so that they could use the keys?
<MagicFab> I know, that's why I am here :D
<alkisg> The only way for key-based authentication to make sense in LTSP (afaik) is if each user had his own usb stick with his keys, and used that as an authentication mechanism...
<MagicFab> I usually won't setup a local account where someone else in the same LAN could launch a dictionary attack
<alkisg> How is that different from having LDAP accounts or local accounts in any local network?
<MagicFab> limiting the auth method per NIC would be enough for now, but I am still curious .
<alkisg> I mean, what do you usually use, in non-ltsp setups?
<MagicFab> alkisg, I don't expect shell accounts on the server when using LDAP.
<alkisg> For key authentication to work, you must login *first* on some machine to have access to your private key
<alkisg> OK, I got your concern.
<MagicFab> I mentioned above the private key could be within the image - but doesn't make sense, that's why I am here.
<alkisg> You might want to also ask this in #ltsp, as it has more people there.
<MagicFab> not much of a concern but more of lack of context / experience so I was missing some easy way to reason around this. When/if you know LTSP means a server listening on port22 with shell accounts and people with easy password, other measures are needed.
<alkisg> Well, anyone with a netbook can become an instant ltsp client
<MagicFab> first and foremost I need to know how to make it acessible remotely without having only password auth :)
<MagicFab> well, anyone with the right MAC address yes... etc.
<alkisg> Right, if you can block it per mac, it's the safest thing to do (still it can be easily faked, but it raises the bar a little)
<MagicFab> motivations vs. $/resources to prevent all scenarios are next - I am also anticipating someone "OMFG! This LTSP server is by default INSECURE!" :) ..to which as you said I'd respond anyone with physical access to your LAN already has it easier.
<MagicFab> ok, MAC address is something I hadn't thought of, I'll add it. Maybe I need a "LTSP hardening" checklist. Thanks for the answers.
<alkisg> Do ask this in #ltsp, as I'm not usually concerned about security, so I haven't given it too much thought
<alkisg> (and people here seem away at this time)
<MagicFab> alkisg, tx again
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: are you around?
<highvoltage> alkisg: I also noticed the inconsistancy in case for --extra-help
<highvoltage> alkisg: additially also that some sentences has periods at the end and some not
<highvoltage> alkisg: I've been planning to give a patch for that :)
<alkisg> Yup, I reported that as well :D
<alkisg> highvoltage: if we're to fix them for Lucid, we'd better harry, as the translators will need some time to respond
<crimsun> alkisg: it'll probably be easier to ping me here, but seriously e-mail is much faster due to work policies
<alkisg> crimsun: should I file a new bug requesting the seeds change?
<crimsun> yes please
<alkisg> Thank you and sorry for pinging you :)
<crimsun> please subscribe me to it
<crimsun> oh no sweat regarding pinging me
<isforinsects> I have a nagging issue regarding aspell, anyone know something about it?
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: am now
<HedgeMage> hi, crimsun long time no see
<highvoltage> HedgeMage: I wanted to tell you something but I can't remember what :)
<crimsun> hi, HedgeMage. I've been around as dtchen.
<crimsun> (too lazy to /nick)
 * highvoltage likes "crimsun" more :)
<HedgeMage> crimsun: ahh, I didn't know that was you :)
<HedgeMage> highvoltage: silly :P   I'm packing for the move, so I'll be in and out.  Feel free to message me when you remember.
<highvoltage> I can only remember that I was very eager to tell you, which just makes it more difficult to remember
<highvoltage> this is why I shouldn't be awake at 01:52
#edubuntu 2010-01-09
<HedgeMage> lol highvoltage
<Ahmuck> lucid lynx alpha2 out?
<sbalneav> Evening all
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, HedgeMage hi :) how's it going guys
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: I'm good, but tired.  Moving tomorrow and Sunday, so I'll be MIA until at least Monday, if not a couple of days after while I get LF settled into a new school and such.
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: not to mention all the un-packing :)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, moving is a big pain, when we moved from our apartments to this new house, it was a lot of work
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: I'm pretty used to it at least.  I used to be married to a soldier, and we had to move whenever the Army ordered us to.
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, ahh :)
#edubuntu 2010-01-10
<sbalneav> Evening all
<stgraber> evening sbalneav
<sbalneav> stgraber: Got a minute? I'd like an opinion.
<stgraber> sbalneav: sure
<stgraber> sbalneav: sorry for the delay, was writting a blog post for the bug day
<sbalneav> NP, so I've been hacking around tonight with pam-sshauth.
<sbalneav> I think I've settled on what I want to do, but I just want an opinion as to if this seems sane or not.
<sbalneav> So, we use libssh for authentication, and handling the password change.
<sbalneav> but once we've done the auth, rather than duplicate a bunch of code, seems to me the best thing to do would be to spawn off just an ssh, using the password we've just gotten.
<sbalneav> seeing as how it's a pam module, we shouldn't need to worry about the ssh's password expiring, since if it DID expire, we would have just handled that.
<sbalneav> so theoretically, by the time we drop to handling the session part, we can just do the ssh hostname, an pass the password we've gotten.
<sbalneav> and the spawned ssh will handle the x11 and command socket stuff.
<stgraber> hmm, wouldn't that block PAM in some way ?
<stgraber> it'd perfectly be fine to have a module option to keep the SSH in the background and have a master socket created
<stgraber> so we can then use that to do whatever we want and that will still act just like a regular PAM module
<stgraber> so if someone uses that module for authentication on his laptop against one of his company's ssh server, he'll still get a local console and not a remote one and if wanted he'd also get access to a SSH control socket so he doesn't need to authenticate again for that SSH server.
<nixternal> http://blog.lydiapintscher.de/2010/01/10/kde-edu-irc-meeting-and-release-parties/
<nixternal> KDE-Edu team is having an irc meeting at 20:00 UTC on January 14th in #kde-edu here on Freenode for those that might be interested
#edubuntu 2011-01-03
<sakhi> morning everyone...
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvoltage> good... afternoon!
#edubuntu 2011-01-04
<mgariepy> good morning everyone and happy new year ! :)
<highvoltage> bonne annÃ©e Ã  tous
#edubuntu 2011-01-05
<highvoltage> mhall119_: does twidenash have any kind of filtering? I had to disable it because it pulled in porn links from spammers on identica :-/
<highvoltage> I realise that the problem is with identi.ca and their bad spam control
<highvoltage> would be nice to be able to filter it a bit though
<daker> highvoltage, actually no bug 696037
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 696037 in Twidenash "Spam on main page of LD from identi.ca" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/696037
<highvoltage> daker: ah, that's pretty much the same as the complaint that we received, at least it's marked high :)
<daker> yeah
<daker> highvoltage, i wrote a small filter i hope this will works ã
<daker> i'll propose it for a merge
<highvoltage> daker: yay!
<shazzr> Hi. Anyone using a Smartboard and edubuntu 10.10 in here? I'm having some issues with it...the drivers are not working, so I can't use the boards pencils to write on it.
<jgor> in GNOME there's an Applications > Education menu, anyone know if there's a way to have a similar category in Unity?
#edubuntu 2011-01-06
<jgor> :\
<mhall119_> highvoltage: no filter yet, but loco.u.c got hit by the spam too, so it's already been requested
<alkisg> Good morning
<highvoltage> good morning AlanBell
<highvoltage> oops, that was aimed at alkisg, who's no longer with us
<highvoltage> (on IRC, at least)
<AlanBell> morning highvoltage
<highvoltage> AlanBell: how are things?
<AlanBell> not bad at all
<AlanBell> as it happens I will be doing a little edubuntu demo next week
<highvoltage> ooh, cool!
#edubuntu 2011-01-07
<dgroos> Good evening.
<dgroos> Anyone know where I would find the hidden config file for sound in a users home folder?
<dgroos> And, is there more than 1 location?
<dgroos> I want to use settings on people's localapps clients so that sound will only be directed to the microphone jack, not the speakers.
<dgroos> This is an obvious need in a classroom full of computers where students are working somewhat asynchronously--viewing videos to get info about cells, for example.
<dgroos> No idea where sound pref files are kept in 10.04?  Guesses?
<dgroos> Oh well, I'll continue my search tomorrow.  Have a good eve.
<alkisg> Good morning
<vmlintu> morning
<vmlintu> oh, the joys of finding a working kernel for intel i8xx chipsets on thin clients..
#edubuntu 2011-01-08
<shazzr> I've set up ubuntu 10.04 with a SmartBoard. There are kernel upgrades avaliable, but I don't dare to get those upgrades because I'm afraid the input options (pens ans erasor) are going to be lost again. Is that a fair assumption, or could I just go ahead with the upgrade?
<mhall119> did you have to do anything special to get them working in the first place?
<shazzr> mhall119: Install the software and drivers from http://smarttech.com/
<shazzr> mhall119: Used Edubuntu 10.10 before, but it did not work on that.
#edubuntu 2011-01-09
<dgroos> Good Morning.
<dgroos> ... and Good Afternoon!
<alkisg> Hey dgroos
<alkisg> LTSP over wireless will be kinda slow, maybe *nx would fare better
<dgroos> *nx?
<dgroos> (video board still working?)
<dgroos> alkisg: Possible, though?  How about with gigabit wireless with a ratio of 1 router to 10 clients?
<alkisg> I stopped rebooting, it works if I just use suspend :D
<alkisg> Sure, it's possible, as long as you have an appropriate initramfs locally, e.g. in a usb stick
<alkisg> To check if the performance suffices, you can temporarily test with XDMCP, it has the same performance as ltsp
<alkisg> I.e. enable xdmcp in /etc/gdm/custom.conf, and run X -query on e.g. 10 standalone clients over wireless
<alkisg> I've never seen a gigabit wireless link so I don't know how that would perform
<vmlintu> fat clients might perform better over wireless
<dgroos> alkisg: Right, wireless N is rated at 300 MB/sec...
<dgroos> Thanks for the ideas to try the XDMCP, I'll give that a go in the coming month or 2 and get back to the list.
<dgroos> vmlintu: thanks for the idea--I would just need an additional 512 MB ram for each thin client I'm on and they should work fine (Pentinum 4's).
<dgroos> brb
<vmlintu> I should do some testing with fat clients over wireless some day too
<alkisg> Some form of local image cloning + syncing is needed there, otherwise with regular 50mbps wireless they're slow
<alkisg> I read a paper once about a modified nfs client that used lots of local caching, that would be ideal but I don't think they're maintaining it after the initial implementatino
<mhall119> alkisg: IIRC, samba does a good job of local caching
<alkisg> mhall119: that persists across reboots?
<mhall119> probably not, no
<alkisg> That wouldn't help then :(
<dgroos> alkisg: when you say 'local image cloning + syncing' do you mean that the disk image would be stored on the USB flash drive, and that that image would be synched during each session?
<alkisg> dgroos: yes, but ideally it wouldn't need to be synced as a whole, but only the parts that the clients needs to read each time
<alkisg> So it wouldn't add any boot or other overhead
<alkisg> E.g. the user would say "reserve 1 Gb on that usb stick for caching", and that'd be all, even if the fat client image was 10 Gb.
<dgroos> So, this is LTSP with a fat client but 'X' is stored locally on a USB stick, with the parts of X updated as needed.  Not quite sure what this, "X" is, yet.  Are you saying that the USB stick would have 10 GB on it or 1 GB?
<alkisg> 1
<alkisg> $ free
<alkisg>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
<alkisg> Mem:       4117336    3621892     495444          0     235892    2831324
<alkisg> That "cached" column for RAM has the same meaning as disk caching
<alkisg> It just speeds up the access when a slow link (in this case the network) exists
<dgroos> ... So, the incrementally updated image might be about 1 gig only.  This 'cached' info, that's on RAM?  Thus the need for more than 2 GB RAM?  Or that could be on the USB stick?
<alkisg> No no it's not related to RAM, I just tried to give a similar example
<alkisg> The clients wouldn't need any additional RAM for that, the cache would be on the usb stick, stored asynchronously so that it wouldn't add any overhead
<alkisg> E.g. when you have an 1 Gb image, and a client boots, it might read just 20-50 Mb
<alkisg> It would store those on the stick, so the next time it booted it would just have to ask the server "has this part changed? no? then I'll read it from the stick, don't send it to me over the network"
<dgroos> Right.  And stick access is pretty quick!
<dgroos> alkisg: How much work/time do you see setting up something like this would take someone in-the-know?
<alkisg> And scales well. And local disks could also be used (e.g. ntfs partitions), if available
<alkisg> A lot, implementing properly a caching file system over the network is no easy task. E.g. that caching nfs-client was implemented but abandoned, I'm sure there's a reason behind it abandonment :D
<dgroos> I wonder how important this feature would be to other educators?
<dgroos> Other educators?
<alkisg> A lot, it'd be useful for 100mbps networks too, and if implemented properly (with caching ldap) it would even allow a classroom to be still used when a server goes down
<alkisg> (not exactly ltsp anymore...)
<dgroos> It seems there would be *lots* of overlap, however.
<alkisg> I think in Spain they chose to sync the image from the server on each boot instead of using ltsp, I imagine if such a thing was implemented they would use it too (thousands of installations there)
<dgroos> There site is powered by plone... http://www.guadalinex.org/que-es-guadalinex
<vmlintu> Maybe the ltsp image could be sync'ed in initramfs to local hard drive
<vmlintu> That might be worth a try.. it'd take quite a long time to transfer a 10 gig fat client image, though..
<dgroos> How often would this have to happen?
<vmlintu> every time the image changes, I guess
<vmlintu> Using rsync would probably shorten the time quite a bit, though
<dgroos> could it be only the part that had changed--incremental I'm trying to say, somehow?
<vmlintu> rsync transfers only the parts that have changed - we use that now to transfer ltsp images to our servers
<dgroos> OK.  Could one use USB sticks instead of HD to increase speed, significantly?
<vmlintu> most usb sticks I have tried have been slower than hard drives
<alkisg> dgroos: are you mainly talking about thin or fat clients?
<dgroos> vmlintu: I didn't know that!
<alkisg> Because if you have enough bandwidth for thin clients (sending videos, X traffic etc) it would more than cover the networked-disk part... not much need for caching there
<dgroos> Well, I'm very big into recycling older Pentium 3 and 4 machines so I would say for the near future thin clients using lots of localapps, but if it were just pentium 4's with a gig of RAM I'd say fat clients for sure.
<alkisg> You put wireless cards to P3/P4? Wouldn't it be more effective to just add RAM to them?
<dgroos> alkisg: not sure what you mean?
<dgroos> We're not currently doing wireless!
<alkisg> dgroos: e.g. sending a video to a thin client requires for example 50 mbps
<alkisg> If you have 50 mbps bandwidth for each client, why use usb sticks?
<dgroos> I would like to do that in future setups, I've got 2 more teachers that want a classroom set of 'computer-embedded-tables' :D
<alkisg> We have that use case here too, the ministry decided that it wants to ship tables with wheels and netbooks on them, connected wirelessly to the rest of the school
<dgroos> alkisg: if you want to look at the table I'm talking about (not on wheels nor sold at any reputable store!) check the bottom row of images on this page--I've changed this to a public folder for a bit so you can see it :)  http://gcos.mpls.k12.mn.us:8383/gcos/Members/mrg/imagess/
<dgroos> Actually, none of the students are using the computers in the tables, I use these images to show that... regular class business can go on with these tables, too!
<alkisg> dgroos: nice, but as in the local ministry proposal, I'd prefer a little larger tables, with an ltsp server on the bottom of each table ;)
<alkisg> This way the netbooks/pcs/tablets/whatever there could have wired connections to the ltsp server, and the server be wirelessly connected to the internet
<dgroos> And I down-sized my tables to get them to fit in a room, also I like the group dynamics at this size table.
<dgroos> Excellent idea with the local ltsp server!
<dgroos> I could make that work, maybe...
<dgroos> Would a pentium 4 with 1 gig ram be enough for a 3-computer ltsp server?  Would sch-scripts still work on them?
<dgroos> would it need a gig NIC?
<alkisg> That server could have 3x100mbps network cards, I think that'd be cheaper than gigabit+switch+whatever
<alkisg> sch-scripts would work, sure
<alkisg> About the pentium 4 with 1 gb ram... well it would work, but I don't know if you'd be satisfied with the performance
<dgroos> How about the performance if the other 3 were running as fat clients?  as localapps? if the server had 2 gigs ram?  I know you don't know from experience--just asking your best guess.
<dgroos> just loaded a new pict at the above-mentioned link showing the table in use :)
<dgroos> *as a computer-table.
<alkisg> For fat clients, you can have a very old ltsp server with just 512 MB RAM and a fast disk
<alkisg> No cpu/much ram is needed there
<alkisg> Of course if you have 2 Gb, it'll be used for caching...
<dgroos> regular 7200 fast *enough*?
<alkisg> Sure
<dgroos> I'll be doing tests on this in the next couple of months and report back :)
<dgroos> I'll post related parts of this to my question on the list serve as well.
<alkisg> dgroos: have you ever checked multiseat?
<dgroos> multiseat?
<alkisg> It allows a single pc to have lots of screens + mice + keyboards
<alkisg> *Maybe* that's better suited to what you're trying to do
<alkisg> Check the video there: http://www2.userful.com/products/userful-multiseat-linux
<alkisg> There are multiple implementations, I just gave the link for the nice video
<dgroos> Really!  I didn't know those existed though I'd conceived of them quite a few times...
<dgroos> Thanks!  I'll be checking that out as well, and adding some notes to my blog...
<dgroos> Thanks alkisg, vmlintu and mhall119!
#edubuntu 2012-01-04
<mgariepy> ping stgraber
<stgraber> mgariepy: pong
<mgariepy> pour le patch lvds il faut soummetre un patch au kernel upstream ?
<mgariepy> pour le ident, tu prend l'information ou ? simplement le fabriquant + model ou tu le pogne dans /sys/ ?
<stgraber> mgariepy: c'est les infos venant de DMI, donc /sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id/sys_vendor et /sys/devices/virtual/dmi/id/product_name
<mgariepy> stgraber, ouais pour les DMI_MATCH mais pour le .ident au dessus
<mgariepy> les autres prÃ©sent dans le fichier ne match pas nÃ©cessairement
<stgraber> mgariepy: ah ouais, Ã§a c'est juste de l'information, Ã§a doit Ãªtre unique dans le fichier, c'est tout
<mgariepy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/792923/
<stgraber> mgariepy: j'ai mis 2-3 autres dÃ©tails dont l'e-mail oÃ¹ il faut envoyer le patch sur https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/907055
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 907055 in linux (Ubuntu) "Clientron E830 Thin Client Needs LDVS removed" [Medium,Triaged]
<mgariepy> ok
<mgariepy> merci
<stgraber> mgariepy: Ã§a semble bon, idÃ©allement, si tu peux pointer vers une description du modÃ¨le qui montre bien que c'est forcement un modÃ¨le sans LVDS, Ã§a va aider
<stgraber> mgariepy: vu qu'Ã©videment ils veulent Ãªtre sÃ»r qu'on se retrouve pas Ã  blacklister des laptops :)
<mgariepy> stgraber, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/911920 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/911916
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 911920 in linux (Ubuntu) "hp st5747 Thin Client Needs LDVS removed" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 911916 in linux (Ubuntu) "hp t5745 Thin Client Needs LDVS removed" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<mgariepy> il faut les passer Ã  confirmÃ© ?
<stgraber> mgariepy: j'ai updatÃ© les bugs
<stgraber> mgariepy: marquÃ© comme confirmÃ© et ajoutÃ© le tag bot-stop-nagging pour Ã©viter les updates automatiques
<stgraber> mgariepy: je t'ai aussi mis une copie du mail que j'avais envoyÃ© Ã  dri-devel
<mgariepy> j'en ai dÃ©jÃ  envoyer un.
<stgraber> good. la derniÃ¨re fois j'avais Ã©tÃ© contactÃ© par un gars de Intel 1-2 jours aprÃ¨s
<mgariepy> cool, je devrait donc avoir des nouvelles sous peu :)
#edubuntu 2012-01-05
<Aaron0252> I has a question about upgrading to 11.04, or possibly 11.10
<Aaron0252> Can I do this without losing all my data?
<micahg> stgraber: is 11.10 edubuntu solid enough to recommend for evaluation in a place like a library?
<stgraber> micahg: as long as they'll use Unity, it should be yes. We also offer the gnome fallback session as an alternative desktop at install time but that one isn't always as stable as it should be...
<micahg> ok, will recommend it then
<stgraber> highvoltage: ouch, that wxwidgets2.8 package is a real nightmare
<stgraber> highvoltage: hasn't been merged from Debian since Feisty!
<stgraber> after 4 hours of poking at it, I'm now done to only two Ubuntu specific deltas that are basically details, so might end up having spent all that time to just flush the remaining delta and sync from Debian
<stgraber> just glad I'm on a 50Mb/s connection here with 6Mb/s up, otherwise uploading the 40Mb would quickly have become a major pain :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: ouch, 4 hours?
<highvoltage> stgraber: at least that's the last one from what I understood
<stgraber> yeah ... running a few test builds now, will then diff the content of the binary packages and their dependencies, then run an install test, then run an upgrade test, then test a bunch of apps using it, then push to the archive
<stgraber> so hopefully I should be done by EOD (in 3 hours or so)
#edubuntu 2012-01-06
<stochastic> hey highvoltage do you have a minute sometime to walk me through the live-dvd process for edubuntu?  I'm trying to get one setup for Ubuntu Studio
#edubuntu 2012-01-07
<Gacek> Hello, I wanted to ask how does ubuntu stupport Radion 5700 HD series. I was installing some time ago Fedora 16, but no drivers were up to task to hold gnome 3 properly (was using akmod). How does it look like on ubuntu?
#edubuntu 2012-12-31
<bryong> Hello can anyone help me install a wireless card on Ubuntu, I am new to this and am having issues
<bryong> Please
#edubuntu 2013-01-04
<highvoltage> stgraber: weblive says that the user limit has been reached, is this true?
<stgraber> highvoltage: probably not, most likely the servers are stuck and need a kick
#edubuntu 2013-01-05
<clem> Hi guys I would like to add a software to edubuntu that lets kids learn concepts of progamming
<alkisg> Which software?
<clem> well it is one we are working on
<clem> it is not finished just jet
<clem> in the form I want
<clem> alkisg
<alkisg> OK, so...?
<clem> are you asking me what the approach will be ?
<alkisg> No I'm asking you which software it is, what do you mean "add it to edubuntu" etc...
<clem> ok it is a visual progamming language
<clem> here is a link
<alkisg> It's not me that will add it to edubuntu, I'm just asking the basic staff for the others to see when they're available
<clem> http://www.ixp.com/is-uml-a-programming-language.jsp#isumlaprogramminglanguage
<clem> under the banner
<clem> there is the step overview
<clem> those steps the students will connect to diagrams
<clem> learning data flow logic flow algorithms and things like transactions
<clem> etc.
<clem> by add to eduubuntu
<clem> I would like to make the composer part of the edubuntu distribution
<alkisg> Do you mean preinstalled, or available at the repositories?
<alkisg> Is it open source software? Is it online or can it be run locally?
<clem> once it has been finished in respect to the learning experience
<clem> well the composer is a stand alone software
<clem> the runtime environment on the server
<clem> would be a free service from us
<clem> and part of it I can make open source
<clem> I want to keep the server as a service to make the user experience as smooth as possible
<clem> not to have to set up the server
<clem> too
<clem> I see that programming is introduces in my country
<clem> Austria
<clem> in India
<clem> and the States
<clem> those are the countries I have experience with
<clem> the concepts that I want to address are fundamental
<alkisg> The best way to include an open source program (even if it's the client part only) to edubuntu is to make it available in debian
<clem> and fuether the understanding at early age
<alkisg> There's some packaging involved there, i.e. to make your software in a .deb form
<clem> debian
<clem> ah
<clem> ok
<clem> and then
<alkisg> (ed)ubuntu most of their software from debian
<clem> sorry for this simple question
<alkisg> *get
<clem> and then what is next ?
<alkisg> Then it'll be available in all *buntu flavors with a simple apt-get install program
<clem> and how do I get it on the disk
<clem> apt-get is remote install
<clem> can I get it in  the distribution ?
<alkisg> Once it's available in the ubuntu repositories, you can ask the edubuntu team to see if they want to consider having it preinstalled on the disk
<clem> ah
<clem> ok and
<alkisg> But I'm not sure they'll like the part that it needs a proprietary server...
<clem> could I ask the team to give us feed back even befor we make this request
<clem> to improve the software for that purpuse
<clem> well
<clem> hm
<alkisg> Sure... you can either ask here in weekdays, or in edubuntu-users ML
<alkisg> Or even with the contact form in edubuntu.org
<clem> the server is not so easy to get going
<clem> Ah ok
<clem> so I will be back and edubuntu-users ML
<clem> thanks
<clem> well I understand that the server might not be liked
<alkisg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
<alkisg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<clem> but I try to make the user experience as easy as using a web page
<alkisg> Usually the programs that _most_ people will use, get preinstalled in the DVDs
<clem> and that needs a high level of automating things
<alkisg> And usually they need to be open source, e.g. the nvidia proprietary drivers are not preinstalled...
<clem> from diagram to code in java with all the features is not just as easy as using a web page
<clem> that is
<clem> ah I see
<alkisg> I don't think that anyone will object, if you keep the server side code open as well, and just offer it as a free service too
<clem> open source
<clem> ok
<clem> hm
<clem> the server side code has to be open too ?
<alkisg> Nothing "has" to be done... it's all up to you
<clem> ah ok
<clem> well I will try
<alkisg> But usually people support more truly FLOSS approaches
<clem> I am honestly interested in supporting the edu effort
<clem> I understand
<clem> Thanks I ll be back
<clem> greatings from Austria
<alkisg> You're welcome
<alkisg> Greetings from Greece :)
<clem> or is that too personal
<clem> where are you ?
<alkisg> Where in Greece? Ioannina... why?
<clem> I know where greece is :)
<clem> Ah
<clem> I like the to imagine where the other person is that I am talking to
<clem> I am about 20 km south of Vienna
<clem> have a nice evening
<alkisg> I've been in wiener neustadt a few years ago
<alkisg> Nice places you have there
<alkisg> Good evening to you too
<clem> that is not too far away
<clem> I am in Maria Enzersdorf
<clem> so I will come back and make the client available for tests
<clem> I am looking forward to the feedback
<clem> ah
<clem> dam
<clem> the client is in java
<clem> hm
<clem> does that matter
<clem> for the process
<clem> it is the same right
<alkisg> Not really
<alkisg> Yeah it's about the same
<clem> k
<clem> technically it is there might be a rile or so
<clem> rule or so
<clem> but there is not
<clem> very well
#edubuntu 2013-01-06
<sunson> is there an "alternate" installer for edubuntu that supports lvm/raid? I'd like to setup LVM+RAID. The stock installer of edubuntu does not allow raid/lvm configuration at install time.
<sunson> s/installer of edubuntu/installer of edubuntu 12.04/
#edubuntu 2013-12-30
<Winters> Greetings. Which channel do I use for support? =)
#edubuntu 2014-01-02
<rajrajraj> how do i configure network modem i.e. micromax mmx352g and should i switch to ubuntu 12.10
<SonikkuAmerica> Are you on 12.04 LTS now?
<rajrajraj> SonikkuAmerica: no i am on 12.10
<SonikkuAmerica> How are you going to switch to 12.10 if you're on 12.10?
<rajrajraj> SonikkuAmerica: i am on ubuntu 12.10 because i can not connect to internet in edubuntu 12.04
<SonikkuAmerica> So you're using an Ubuntu 12.10 Live image right now to fix your Edubuntu install?
<rajrajraj> SonikkuAmerica: yes
<rajrajraj> SonikkuAmerica: on other machine
<SonikkuAmerica> Do you use any of the specific Edubuntu applications?
<rajrajraj> SonikkuAmerica: i have just installed
<SonikkuAmerica> Installed... what?
<rajrajraj> SonikkuAmerica: havent used nay application, and have just seen the default apps
<rajrajraj> any*
<rajrajraj> installed edubuntu 12.04
<SonikkuAmerica> Oh OK.
<SonikkuAmerica> If your Internet connection works on 12.10 but not on 12.04 LTS, I'd probably grab a 13.10 (note the release number) image and upgrade your install during the installation wizard.
<rajrajraj> k
<rajrajraj> SonikkuAmerica: i am getting this error " FATAL: Error inserting usbserial (/lib/modules/3.2.0-23-generic/kernel/drivers/usb/serial/usbserial.ko): Invalid argument"
<rajrajraj> join ubuntu
#edubuntu 2014-01-03
<mihai_> hi everyone
<mihai_> i'm a newbie here so i don't want to disturb your work , but can you recommend me some good books for learning the basics of the linux OS
<mihai_> please*?
#edubuntu 2015-01-01
<mkink> hi everione
<mkink> i have a major question
<mkink> im not new to ubuntu but very new to edubuntu, instalation worked great, everything works fine but where the hell do i find something like kickoff on kubuntu
#edubuntu 2017-01-04
<shakes808> Hello everyone.  I have been poking around on the edubuntu site looking for how to ensure that my son ( 10 years old ) won't be able to go on any inappropriate sites.  I have also been trying to find out if there is a way to track what he has been doing on the computer.  I seen that Nanny is a dead project and wondering if there is anything out there that will set my mind at ease and give me a report of what sites he is visiting
#edubuntu 2017-01-05
<shakes808> morning all,  I asked a question yesterday and then lost connection to the chat.  I am not sure if anyone answered or responded to my question.  Is there a place to see logs of the chat for me the check?
#edubuntu 2017-01-06
<formid> hi
#edubuntu 2018-01-05
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: gnome-applets (artful-proposed/universe) [3.26.0-1 => 3.26.0-1ubuntu0.1] (desktop-extra, edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2020-01-02
<GoodTimesImmort> hello room
<GoodTimesImmort> goodby room
<GoodTimesImmort> goodbye*
