#ubuntu-tablet 2012-02-22
<h00k> oh look. this exists.
#ubuntu-tablet 2013-02-18
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-tablet to: Welcome to #ubuntu-tablet | http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tablet | This channel is logged to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Tick, tock, tablet time! http://www.ubuntu.com/
<mhall119> tick tock, tick tock
<AlanBell> QML tablets you say? Nexus 7 flashable image? oh yummy
<mhall119> I do hope so
<nOStahl> i'd like to see the ubuntu for phones project take off , and see tablet shell you can dock your phone into
<nOStahl> or a laptop shell you can dock your phone in and have a new form factor
<mhall119> or a tv you can dock your laptop that you docked your tablet that you docked your phone to
<nOStahl> no
<nOStahl> of course after you dock your phone into a tablet that docks into a laptop THAT docks into your space ship
<mhall119> who told you about our space ship plans?
<mhall119> I mean, what space ship?
<mainerror> Tick, tock. :)
<nOStahl> what is the tick tock
<mainerror> :)
<nOStahl> would make sense for them to launch tablet and phone around same time :P
<mainerror> I feel like this http://lc.fdots.com/cc/lc/ea/eaf96e3242bfaa02573949a6ced1f349.gif
<Akiva-Desktop> what is this tick tock tablet time?
<Akiva-Desktop> on ubuntu.com?
<mainerror> Akiva-Desktop: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/ubuntu-gearing-up-for-tablet-announcement-tomorrow
<Akiva-Desktop> mainerror: I have a thinkpad convertable tablet
<Akiva-Desktop> wondering if a release will be issued, and whether I should get it, or the desktop version
<Akiva-Desktop> unless... are most tablets arm?
<mainerror> I guess you should stay with the desktop version.
<Akiva-Desktop> mainerror: Yah, guess so
<M4rtinK> I would say the announcement is either an image with the Ubuntu Components & Qt 5 for Nexus 7
<M4rtinK> or some re-branded tablet being available with Ubuntu (less probable, due to the issues Cordia & Plasma Active faced when trying to do something like that)
<mhall119> Akiva-Desktop: most tablets are ARM, yes
<mhall119> there are a few exceptions
<Akiva-Desktop> mhall119: like the thinkpad tablets :P
<M4rtinK> yeah, for example the We Tab/Exo PC
<mhall119> I don't know what those are
<Akiva-Desktop> I wish we could get thinkpad to be an official distrobutor of ubuntu
<M4rtinK> it even has a built-in cooling fan :)
<Akiva-Desktop> they make the best hardware behind apple imo
<M4rtinK> in the top line - sure
<mhall119> Akiva-Desktop: I believe Lenovo already sells Ubuntu pre-installed on some models
<Akiva-Desktop> mhall119: You don't know of the convertible thinkpads? Oh man, these are legendary.
<M4rtinK> Thinkpad Edge - not so much
<mhall119> Akiva-Desktop: I'm just happy with my X220
<mainerror> Akiva-Desktop: Those are not really tablets though.
<M4rtinK> T520 FTW :)
<Akiva-Desktop> mhall119: Ah, so you do know :)
<popey> I've yet to see an X86 tablet that didn't suck
<Akiva-Desktop> x220 is amazing
<mhall119> I know about laptops
<mhall119> not their tablets
<Akiva-Desktop> yah, its x series, with a t and the end
<Akiva-Desktop> x220t
<mhall119> oh, that's be a big tablet
<Akiva-Desktop> I have the x60 t, picked it up on craigslist for 120
<mhall119> I mean, it's a nice small laptop, but it would be a big tablet
<Akiva-Desktop> mhall119: Yessum.
<Akiva-Desktop> Well, its a bit heavier than the x220 too, so
<Akiva-Desktop> never been slim unfortunately
<mhall119> but if it's an x220, then it's likely an x86 chip
<Akiva-Desktop> the ideapad yoga looks interesting, but its ideapad.
<mhall119> not that it matters a whole lot to Ubuntu
<Akiva-Desktop> mhall119: Yah, same hardware, just a bit thicker and heavier
<mhall119> since we can re-compile most of our archive for both
<Akiva-Desktop> mhall119: Using it though with unity, made me really appreciate how good it is with tablets.
<mhall119> won't matter for apps either, since we're pushing for the use of non-compiled QML
<M4rtinK> well, even if QML itself is not compiled
<Akiva-Desktop> the best feature is how you do window scrolling with the sidebar, having that little floating button with the two arrows. it is perfect for a stylus or finger.
<M4rtinK> most non-trivial QML apps have a lot of C++ backend stuff
<mhall119> M4rtinK: I've heard QML2 makes that less necessary than QML1 did
<Akiva-Desktop> mhall119: any plans for the onscreen keyboard to take handwriting input?
<mhall119> Akiva-Desktop: I'm not aware of any for Linux, no
<Akiva-Desktop> that is hard stuff to program
<M4rtinK> mhall119: it is much better, but some APIs are still not yet available
<Akiva-Desktop> I found one, it was... well you had to write one for each letter first before it recognized it
<Akiva-Desktop> like, it had to learn from your examples.
<M4rtinK> mhall119: such as clipborad access or settings storage/persistence
<M4rtinK> *clipboard
<mhall119> M4rtinK: ah, we should make QML plugins for those though
<mainerror> Forget about handwriting input, swipe typing is the way to go. :)
<M4rtinK> mhall119: IIRC for those two it is already WIP
<M4rtinK> mhall119: other than missing interfaces, writing complex software logic using Javascript might get quite interesting :)
<M4rtinK> mhall119: my solution - use Python for the backend :)
<M4rtinK> mhall119: should work quite nicely once the PySide or PyQt support for Qt 5 improves
<Akiva-Desktop> mainerror: it would be nice however to maintain the elegance that is handwriting.
<mainerror> Akiva-Desktop: You clearly never saw my handwriting. :D
<Akiva-Desktop> real handwriting too; A font feels terribly pretentious.
<Akiva-Desktop> mainerror: TouchÃ©
<GuidoPallemans> htc.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssnw2GA657s
<nOStahl> interesting
<M4rtinK> so probably a rebranded HTC tablet running Ubuntu ? :)
<mhall119> "probably" might be too strong a word for it
<M4rtinK> 100% sure ? :)
<k1l> why rebrand? if its a htc tablet with ubuntu OS (instead of Andriod OS)
<M4rtinK> good point
<k1l> i mean, why should htc advertise a device thats not labled with htc :)
<M4rtinK> I mean basically being able to get a (HTC ?) tablet with Ubuntu preloaded
<mattwj2002> hi guys
#ubuntu-tablet 2013-02-19
<sayd> any sneak preview pics?
<IdleOne> probably not till the countdown is up
<ubuntubhoy> with under 3 hours on the clock, I thought it might have been busier in here
<smartboyhw> lol
<ubuntubhoy> need to get in early to get the best seats
<smartboyhw> ubuntubhoy, there aren't any *seats*
<ubuntubhoy> In my imagination there are
<ubuntubhoy> big comfy ones down at the front
<GuidoPallemans> less than one hour to go...
<mcmullins> are they going to have a google hangout, or anything like that again?
<nOStahl> its going to be a 20 dollar tablet with dual core and 2 gigs of ram with ubuntu on it
<IdleOne> heh, wishful thinking?
<nOStahl> with HTC subsidizing
<smartboyhw> LOL
<mainerror> This list seems to be outdated, eh? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TabletList
<wdnz> gah. I can't wait another 30 minutes to find out.
<IdleOne> you waited 23.5 hrs, you're going to give up now when you can see the finish line?
<mcmullins> Don't worry, once you find out, you'll have to wait another year before you can buy it :P
<nOStahl> leave him IdleOne he's down and out!
 * genii-around makes a pot of coffee and hands out the mugs
<wdnz> cheers
 * mcmullins cheers
<nOStahl> speaking of thatâ¦ I better go make myself an Americano before I get a headache from lack of caffeine
<mainerror> Tick, tock. :D
<mainerror> Soon.
<genii-around> I imagine it will have Ubuntu for Mobile
<nOStahl> uTouch :P
<mcmullins> genii-around, I hope it has the mobile version
<DJones> When I left home this morning, HTC.com and Ubuntu.com's countdown timers where matching, now htc's is 3 minutes faster, I guess they're going for an early unveiling
<mcmullins> I'd rather have a complete rethink of the unity interface, than have 3 different Unities that we have to try to smash together
<genii-around> I figure it will be a 10" version of the Flyer, with probably a quad core
<nOStahl> the timers match up perfectly DJones
<IdleOne> depends who's looking at the clock
<DJones> nOStahl: I see a 3 minute difference
<nOStahl> what part of the world
<IdleOne> 1 minute diff here
<wdnz> 0.2 milisecond diff here.
<genii-around> From here the timers sync up, HTC 1 minute fast
<nOStahl> are they going to announce anything in here too?
<IdleOne> probably/maybe
<guest1__> what i thought the htc timer was for the htc one ...
<AlanBell> HTC have done their bit already, nothing to do with us
 * vibhav bites nails 
<nOStahl> 5 min!
<vibhav> Time is going slow.
<vibhav> Very slow.
<nOStahl> and everyone's quiet now lol starting to stare at their screens
<blow> 2 min
<nOStahl> !! it ended and said just kidding!
<blow> does anyone want to talk about mickey mouse while we wait?
<blow> 30 seconds
<blow> 20
<blow> 15
<blow> 10
<wdnz> 10
<blow> 5
<blow> 4
<blow> 3
<blow> 2
<blow> 7
<blow> 1
<blow> k=lol
<mainerror> nice
<wdnz> loadddinnnggg
<vibhav> It's spinning
<mainerror> Of course the servers are going down.
<blow> and then it hangs...
<mcmullins> aaaaand server crash
<mcmullins> 503
<blow> and then it hangs...
<blow> and hangs...
<vibhav> And it's down
<netcurli> impossible.. ubuntu server doesn't crash :P
<vibhav> Wait, it's up
<genii-around> Hehe
<mainerror> netcurli: Ubuntu didn't crash but the webserver. :)
<mcmullins> you think they would have expected this from the Phone announcement >_<
<blow> should i reload the page?
<AlanBell> if you left the timer spinning it would do a refresh after 30 seconds
<blow> hmm maybe i should wait...
<genii-around> blow: Probably not
<wdnz> s..should I refresh?
<blow> wdnz i have just done that...
<IdleOne> htc.com didn't crash
<vibhav> Heh
<mcmullins> push F5 as quick as you can
<nOStahl> hah i got a 503 error
<mcmullins> acutally scratch that
<charis> The HTC media event has passed without mention of anything Ubuntu. This rumour is therefore squashed.
<mcmullins> loop a curl
<vibhav> Indeed
<netcurli> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/19/4004336/ubuntu-touch-developer-preview-download-nexus-tablets
<genii-around> The servers are probably being hammered already, refreshing it just will make it worse
<mosimo> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet
<mosimo> working, but slow
<vibhav> 503 :(
<mosimo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU&hd=1
<mosimo> that just hityoutube too
<nOStahl> I got video of it crashing to 503 error heh
<blow> www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablets
<blow> no s
<blow> www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet
<nOStahl> lol i don't think ubuntu has experienced this much traffic before lol
<blow> haha
<mosimo> and this isnt even the release for it
<blow> nOStahl well, its the biggest channel here at freenode
<mosimo> just the announcement
<IdleOne> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU&hd=1
<mosimo> Find out when itâs here
<mosimo> If youâre not in the mobile industry, but youâre as excited as we are about Ubuntu on tablets, we can alert you by email when the first device is released.
<ptl> hi
<ptl> will the new tablet interface be available to the nexus 7?
<mosimo> probably yea
<k1l> is there something like the code released? or is it just an announcment? (like for the -phone)
<waspinator> lol video looks like apple ad
<mosimo> just annoucement
<mosimo> phone source is in 2 days
<mosimo> probably tablet later on
<mainerror> You know, that's quite impressive.
<genii-around> Meh. That was... anti-climactic
<IdleOne> isn't it always
<vibhav> Okay
<waspinator> side stage? looks like windows snap
<ptl> phone source is in 2 days -> just ordered a nexus 4 :D
<ptl> just for that
<vibhav> This is gorgeous
<AlanBell> so is this a good excuse to get a nexus 10?
<nOStahl> did you guys see that at end of video! the phone dock into a laptop shell
<nOStahl> err a tablet shell
<nOStahl> !!!
<nOStahl> just want i've been wanting
<waspinator> that's just a possibility. nexus 4/10 doesn't do that
<mosimo> asus padfone thingy does though
<Kroach> what the hell was a Windows window doing on Ubuntu in the end part of the tablet video?
<mosimo> thin client
<not_technical> glad i just got a nexus 7.  will definitely try this out, before getting attached to android... :)
<mosimo> well you're going to be waiting a bit for the tablet version
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-tablet to: Welcome to #ubuntu-tablet | http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tablet | This channel is logged to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU
<AlanBell> is it me, or are all the pictures and videos showing the tablet in landscape orientation?
<waspinator> thin client isn't ready yet for regular users is it?
<AlanBell> and all the phone stuff in portrait?
<AlanBell> waspinator: thin client is fine if you like that sort of thing
<AlanBell> rdp is mostly a solved problem
<mosimo> http://www.ubuntu.com/static/u/img/devices/tablet-home-portrait.jpg
<mosimo> portrait tablet :P
<AlanBell> thanks mosimo
<waspinator> but I mean there is no GUI to say do: "connect to my windows computer and integrate all its apps into ubuntu"
<flintser> ubuntu tablet and phone, musthave(tm)
<AlanBell> also a portrait welcome screen on the ubuntu.com homepage
<waspinator> you still need a sysadmin to do it for you right?
<AlanBell> waspinator: if your windows computer is running the rdp server stuff then you can use remmina to view them
<waspinator> ya but that looks ugly. I mean having word in the unity launcher
<AlanBell> I think you need special stuff on the windows side to do individual application remoting
<waspinator> make it seamless
<waspinator> so it's not ready for end users yet... too bad
<AlanBell> yeah, windows is not ready for end users
<AlanBell> ;)
<nOStahl> with all this, theres going to be a hipster movement away from apple to using ubuntu I fear :P
<AlanBell> they will get there one day perhaps
<mainerror> I think there's something I don't understand about YouTube. That video was viewed 301 times but it got 565 thumbs-up and 5 thumbs-down. How's that even possible? :D
<AlanBell> mainerror: youtube bug, all videos stop at 301 for ages
<waspinator> lol. well windows runs word pretty well. ideally I would swtich all my pcs to ubuntu and just have a windows 'server' running somewhere hosting the apps I still need.
<mainerror> AlanBell: for real?
<auc> youtube caches some of that data :) it will be updated eventually
<AlanBell> mainerror: http://www.seroundtable.com/youtube-301-views-15347.html
<rewarp> mainerror: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIkhgagvrjI
<mainerror> wow, I'm slow on those things ._.
<rewarp> I only know because I follow the numberphile channel on YouTube.
<mosimo> its not a bug. its intentional
<waspinator> I think it's kinda false advertising to show word running so seamlessly on the tablet though. since it's such a promoted feature they should get that to work asap
<mosimo> they do it and manually check videos to make sure the views are legit
<mosimo> when they are the counter continues
<mosimo> when approved rather*
<AlanBell> waspinator: it will work fine like that, the tablet side shouldn't have a problem with it, you just have to run citrix terminal server on the windows side
<mosimo> run xenapp to have application only instead of fulldesktop like in the video too
<mosimo> or similar
<waspinator> at prohibitive costs I'm sue
<AlanBell> waspinator: sure, but it will be standard when Windows is ready for end users
<waspinator> right ok. I'm not sure windows is going to be eager to put itself out of business
<mosimo> microsoft aren't the ones doing the only programs to allow you to do it
<mosimo> citrix, vmware
<waspinator> ya but that's the only way it'll become standard
<flintser> AlanBell: citrix costs, i bet noone wants to run paid software to get word on ubuntu :)
<nOStahl> why do you need word btw
<waspinator> word is just an example
<nOStahl> I have several offices all setup with libreoffice and they get along just fine
<waspinator> mine would kill me
<AlanBell> I have no idea why you would want to do it either
<waspinator> mark thinks its a good idea
<AlanBell> in the demo Excel does not appear in the launcher
<mosimo> i'd like it
<mosimo> protip: video isnt a live demo
<AlanBell> yeah, I know
<mosimo> i've got many windows apps that i'd like to be running on it
<mosimo> so running it thin client style would be nice for me
<mosimo> im the sole it guy at my work and always carrying round my nexus 7 with my
<AlanBell> I like the side shelf thing
<ubuntubhoy> I think it looks fantastic
<mosimo> have been considering getting a microsoft surface pro
 * AlanBell ponders buying a nexus 10
<waspinator> looks like a copy of windows snap
<ubuntubhoy> I also want it on my netbook over a desktop install if thats possible
<z2s8> Where can we download it please?
<mosimo> cant yet
<AlanBell> z2s8: thursday
<z2s8> Thx
<mosimo> that's phone source
<netcurli> according to theverge, the Touch Developer Preview will also include the tablet interface
<AlanBell> I would be inclined to believe that as it is an embargoed article and not a rushed one after the announcement
<waspinator> magic edges are similar to windows too
<waspinator> I wonder what service they'll use for voice recognition
<waspinator> anyone think that QML will be what ubuntu desktop is built on soon?
<mosimo> ill still run xfce on my laptop
<qengho> Good to know!
<AlanBell> waspinator: I would think that is very probable
<mosimo> it wouldnt suprise me if they did
<waspinator> is that what gives the fluidity? I'd love my desktop to be that fluid
<mosimo> would need a lot of tweaking to adapt it for desktop with proper multitasking
<M4rtinK> so no hardware ? :)
<waspinator> nexus 4/7/10 for now
<M4rtinK> let me paraphrase an internet meme: "HW or it didn't happen" :)
<M4rtinK> there are quite a lot of more or less working tablet UIs (Nemo, Cordia, Plasma Active, Ubuntu Tablet, ...)
<M4rtinK> but no device you can order online with one of those installed
<waspinator> same could be said for pretty much anything linux
<waspinator> besides android
<M4rtinK> well, it is much easier to install a Linux distro on a PC
<M4rtinK> quite a bit harder on embedded devices with the lack of standardization & many binary blobs
<waspinator> maybe that's the problem. make linux easy to install on phones and tablets
<M4rtinK> yep, that's also a solution
<M4rtinK> but the announcement seems to be (again!) targeted on manufacturers
<M4rtinK> or are there already some images one can install on some COTS tablet ?
<waspinator> images will come out for the nexus line on the 21st
<AlanBell> it was a countdown to a press release, the real stuff is on the 21st
<M4rtinK> waspinator: did they confirm they will also release tablet images ?
<M4rtinK> well, probably yes :)
<M4rtinK> it doesn't seem to be that different
<waspinator> not sure, but OMG says so
<M4rtinK> I really hope they don't make some fundamental OS-level design mistake
<Abhijit> hello
<Abhijit> congrats to canonical team and ubuntu team for such nice work.
<Abhijit> :-)
<Abhijit> looking forward to hear product launch.
<M4rtinK> which unfortunately happens quite often for mobile OSes
<Abhijit> i am talking about ubuntu\
<Abhijit> not all mobile ossssss
<M4rtinK> I was reffering to: 17:55 <M4rtinK> I really hope they don't make some fundamental OS-level design mistake
<Abhijit> ok
<humanbeing> So why did they design the desktop-Unity like a touch-interface?
<waspinator> desktop unity is probably just a stopgap before they move everything to qml
<AlanBell> wonder what the side shelf looks like in portrait mode
<Abhijit> is ubuntu sdk available for other linux distro?
<ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: probably crap - also does it switch to portrait ?
<waspinator> maybe it moves to the bottom and makes the phone bit landscape
<AlanBell> dunno, there are some shots of it portrait
<AlanBell> as far as I am aware nobody has seen the phone change orientation, it is all portrait
<humanbeing> waspinator: this would be cool. You could easily develope one programm for all platforms
<humanbeing> *devices
<waspinator> I think that's their plan
 * wdnz is away (leaving)
<mcmullins> So.. anyone else surprised by mono-develop?
<mosimo> what about it?
<mcmullins> It's interesting that Ubuntu is attempting to support native windows code
<mosimo> what's monodevelop got to do with ubuntu?
<waspinator> wait is mono-develop part of the SDK?
<mcmullins> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/monodevelop/
<mosimo> oh
<mosimo> nothing wrong with that
<mosimo> its just another language
<waspinator> oh I thought they were building their own VS/xcode using mono-develop
<mcmullins> 2 languages
<waspinator> they really should build their own IDE
<mcmullins> Seems like they're relying a lot on QtCreator
<waspinator> ya maybe they should tweak it and rebrand it as ubuntu development studio or something
<waspinator> like so many companies do with eclipse
<nOStahl> wish eclipse had git-flow plugin
<nOStahl> i use Aptana Studio 3 (web development tweaked version of eclipse)
<PTAlisPT__> Hello! Could someone tell me what exacty is needed to run ubuntu on a tablet?
<waspinator> a nexus 7/10
<PTAlisPT__> I mean, not an Asus one
<PTAlisPT__> Yeah, but those are not that cheap
<PTAlisPT__> And their hardware could be better
<waspinator> they have a pretty good price-perfomance ratio
<PTAlisPT__> I've seen some quad core tablets with 2 gb of ram for 200eur
<PTAlisPT__> And that is what really makes the thing interesting
<waspinator> wait for the nexus 7v2 in may
<Tm_T> PTAlisPT__: like which one?
<waspinator> should be that price range
<PTAlisPT__> Like these Onda v972 Quad Ramos w30 Quad Nova 10 Quad FreeLander PD80 Vogue Quad ICOO ICOU10GT Quad PiPO MAX M9 Quad
<PTAlisPT__> The Quad part is not needed
<PTAlisPT__> That was a list I made
<PTAlisPT__> I think the PiPo has great quality
<PTAlisPT__> But it is only on presale
<PTAlisPT__> The ramos is very high quality too
<PTAlisPT__> Some of them look suspicious, I mean, they may bee a piece of chineese crap
<waspinator> nexus 7 is only $200USD
<PTAlisPT__> But some are really damn good!
<waspinator> thats less than 200E
<PTAlisPT__> But it is only 7"
<PTAlisPT__> I would like to have a 10"
<PTAlisPT__> And 2gb of ram our more, quad core processor and Gpu 2d/3d acceleration
<waspinator> probably going to have to wait for a while longer
<PTAlisPT__> (For the mali-400 MP4 or the powervr sg)
<PTAlisPT__> :-(
<PTAlisPT__> *sgx
<PTAlisPT__> sgx 540 I think
<waspinator> or save up for the nexus10
<PTAlisPT__> That's really sad
<PTAlisPT__> Yeah
<PTAlisPT__> Does the nexus 7 have 3d accelerationÂ»?
<waspinator> yes. nvidia tegra
<PTAlisPT__> Oh, good
<PTAlisPT__> When running ubuntu, of course
<waspinator> yes
<PTAlisPT__> But it's still 7"...
<PTAlisPT__> I think the ubuntu is really good and gives support to a LOT of things...
<PTAlisPT__> If this would be one of those things...
<blitz> is there a faq
<Paddy_NI> Is Ubuntu For Phone/Tablet in any way the "Linux for Tablets" that I have been waiting for...
<Paddy_NI> Can I fire up a terminal and apt-get install whatever
<Paddy_NI> I have also been wondering where the "Ubuntu Image for Nexus 7" fits in with all this?
<AlanBell> blitz: there are frequently asked questions, but no frequently answered ones yet, probably a bit more info on thursday
<AlanBell> Paddy_NI: I guess if it flips from phone to tablet to pc then yes, stuff will be apt-gettable
<AlanBell> the side shelf stuff running phone code is probably what they need a different display server for
<Paddy_NI> awesome.. I want this stuff so badly
<jelatta> if Ubuntu Touch uses android device drivers, will it be fairly simple to port to other tablets, I own a Transformer Pad TF300
<NullVoxPopuli> so excited for ubuntu on tablets :-)
<Paddy_NI> :-D
<NullVoxPopuli> I'm gonna get the next version of the nexus 10 when it comes out in like... forever from now
<NullVoxPopuli> >_<
<bkc_> jelatta: TF300 already runs ubuntu desktop iirc
<jelatta> ubuntu desktop yes, I want to get my hands on ubuntu for tablets :)
<Paddy_NI> Is Ubuntu For Tablets both ARM and Intel x86_64?
<bkc_> yes
<Paddy_NI> Cool
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I see the place is booming :)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> is an image ready for download yet?
<bkc_> nope
<AlanBell> no, thursday maybe
<Paddy_NI> Thursday
<bkc_> release is 25-28th
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I want to throw this on my thinkpad convertable tablet.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> if you say its x86 ready :P
<AlanBell> Mobile World Congress is 25-28th
<AlanBell> release of some source is 21st
<Paddy_NI> I wonder where the Ubuntu Desktop image for Nexus 7 fits in with all this.. and if the Nexus 7 will have Ubuntu for Tablets
<AlanBell> my guess is that it won't be x86 from day 1
<AlanBell> huh, they had a conference call about it today
<Akiva-Thinkpad> is there a tube of any of this up?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> of good ol shuttles promoting the thing?
<Paddy_NI> yes
<Paddy_NI> Visit ubuntu.com :-)
<waspinator> any idea if ubuntu will support stylus ala galaxy note or windows?
<Paddy_NI> waspinator: I don't see why it would not really
<waspinator> i hope so
<waspinator> right now my x86 tablet pc has horrible pen support in ubuntu 12.10
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Paddy_NI: It does not to the extent it does not have a image program that works with pressure points
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I am not even sure if Gimp has that capability.
<Paddy_NI> Akiva-Thinkpad: Well gimp supports pressure points
<Paddy_NI> it does
<Paddy_NI> as does inkscape
<Akiva-Thinkpad> plugin though, I am sure
<Paddy_NI> Yes
<waspinator> it doesn't even rotate pen input when I rotate my display screen
<waspinator> there are very basic bits that aren't supported before apps can be written for it
<Akiva-Thinkpad> speaking of which, are images for tablet going to be limited to the 700 mb of a cd?
<Paddy_NI> waspinator: Have you tried installing some raw minced beef into the usb ports?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> or will they dare make 1-2 gigabyte images?
<waspinator> hmm, no. would that help?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Oh you have to write a script for tha
<Akiva-Thinkpad> that
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I saw a video on the thinkpad tablet with ubuntu, same problem
<Paddy_NI> waspinator: Well it would not hurt :-)
<Paddy_NI> Sorry I have a problem :-(
<Akiva-Thinkpad> when you rotate, mouse still stays the same, and gives you mirror touch
<waspinator> that's the kind of stuff I would expect my OS to handle
<waspinator> without me writing scripts
<Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Well, I feel your pain
<Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: I could say though, you get what you pay for
<waspinator> I just use windows when I need the tablet bits of my computer
<waspinator> ya I guess you do
<waspinator> windows 8 is great for it actually
 * Paddy_NI shivers
<waspinator> and it only cost me $15 though
<Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: The script is simple enough; perhaps you and I could work on implimenting this into the distro?
<waspinator> so not much more than ubuntu
<waspinator> I doubt canonical would include something written by unknowns
<Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Rubbish.
<bkc_> waspinator: xrandr keeps track of the screen, while xwacom manages the tablet-part, so that's why the mouse isn't rotated when you change the rotation of the screen :)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: its already written for that matter.
<bkc_> Akiva-Thinkpad: and it's in the repo
<waspinator> and no one thought it would be a good idea to sync them>
<waspinator> at least no one at canonical
<Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: I think if people come with your attitude; "Why should I do it?" then, its not surprising :P
<bkc_> waspinator: no, because that would require them to check each time whether wacom was installed or not. OR slap on even more unnecessary dependencies...
<bkc_> and syncing them is easy, the daemon is just an apt-get away :)
<bkc_> or SoftwareCenter if you feel like shooting yourself in the foot ;)
<waspinator> if its so easy to install, why wouldn't it be an option in additional drivers?
<waspinator> or better yet just installed automatically if detected during a system update
<waspinator> I'll try it though
<waspinator> but it shouldn't require user intervention
<Hourd> why not?
<bkc_> 1) because the daemon isn't a driver, 2) because not everyone actually changes the orientation of their screens :)
<Hourd> its fairly specialist and easy to add
<waspinator> whats the daemon's name?
<waspinator> all tablets change orientation
<waspinator> or at least they should have the option to
<bkc_> for the thinkpad tablet there's also a script for automagically change the orientation of both tablet and screen depending on the physical orientation :)'
<bkc_> uhm, no?
<bkc_> I have a tablet for my desktop... see the problem? :)
<waspinator> no ... why would I buy a tablet for my computer?
<waspinator> it's already a computer
<waspinator> of course I don't want my desktop to switch orientations when I rotate my tablet
<Hourd> i also have a tablet for my desktop... which i never change screen orientation
<waspinator> I'm not talking about graphics tablets btw
<bkc_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Wacom_Bamboo_Capture_tablet_and_pen.jpg <-- tablet...
<bkc_> no, but it's the same concept...
<bkc_> it's actually the same thing...
<waspinator> uh no. when you say tablet, especially in ubuntu-tablet you aren't talking about graphics tablet periperals
<waspinator> the ones I'm talking about have a screen and a computer attached behind it
<waspinator> surely ubuntu can see the difference
<waspinator> I know windows can
<bkc_> no and no
<waspinator> that's unfortunate
<bkc_> the input-device and driver is the same for external drawing-tablets and mobile tablets
<bkc_> for both windows and linux
<waspinator> I guess I'm stuck with windows then
<waspinator> right, but windows doesn't rotate my screen when I rotate a graphics tablet.
<waspinator> it does when I rotate a graphics tablet screen combo
<bkc_> no, that's because the graphics tablet doesn't have a gyroscope/accelerometer built in...
<waspinator> oh ok, so adding this functaionlity in wouldn't do any harm to your use case then
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Wow, mark, way to knock my socks off
<Akiva-Thinkpad> All I care though, as beautiful as that phone and tablet and everything else is, is I want my terminal
<bkc_> no, but unnecessary in about 99% of the cases, BUT for ubuntu-tablet I'm sure this functionality will exist...
<Akiva-Thinkpad> just so it still feels like linux :)
<Hourd> Akiva-Thinkpad: same
<waspinator> that's all I ask
<bkc_> waspinator: but you where talking about regular ubuntu (as it is now, since the tablet version isn't released) so that's the answer you got :)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Solution - Apply script, and call yourself a hacker.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ubuntu tablets to run on ipads?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> or is this gonna be a hacking project?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't know if ipad images are flashed to roms or not so...
<bkc_> google iDroid to see if the bootloader is even available for iPad :)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Pah, droid
<bkc_> iPad images works just like iPhone images, so they are flashed to the internal disk
<Akiva-Thinkpad> "Lets run a java machine on it!"
<Akiva-Thinkpad> interesting
<bkc_> well, the bootloader is the same, and since "regular" linux wasn't really an option for phones up until now, Android was the "best choise"
<Walther> Hm. Is the device going to be released through OEMs or will there be a public image / sources available for e.g. Nexus 7?
<no_gravity> Good Evening! Will ubuntu for tablets provide root access by default?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: No, they are getting rid of the terminal
<no_gravity> Akiva-Thinkpad: how do you know?
<bkc_> lol, there's no info on that :P
<Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: I'm just trying to shock you :P
<no_gravity> root access would be the only differentiating factor for me.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: you mean root accout, or sudo capabilities??
<Akiva-Thinkpad> because root account... how long ago with that? 6.04?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't think they had it even then :P
<bkc_> ...
<no_gravity> Akiva-Thinkpad: thats why i said root access
<bkc_> root still exists...
<Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: does ubuntu-tv have it? I would assume it does.
<no_gravity> for example, i hate it that i cannot edit /etc/hosts on my iOS devices.
<no_gravity> didnt try on my android devices but would guess its unavailable as well.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Anyways, its good my project is still in planning stages. Looks like an ubuntu-tablet version will need to be made :P
<Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: Yah I hate that too. If that happened here at least, the community would find a hack, and no one would bite your head off for being disloyal to the logo.
<Walther> But yeah, any info on possible images / sources?
<Walther> I want to get this thing on my Nexus 7 *now*
<Walther> or if not now, as soon as possible
<nOStahl> gotta wait like everyone else Walther lol
<Walther> of course. But like I asked earlier, the main question is: will it be OEM only, or will the sources and/or images become available
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I swear the apple developers were inspired by Rousseau, "Sire, the apple users are complaining that their 1 year old machines are not compatible with the new software." "Let them eat cake~"
<nOStahl> its open source
<Walther> as in, neither the phone nor the tv project images / sources have been released
<Walther> Akiva-Thinkpad: :D
<nOStahl> the ubuntu tv will be fun
<waspinator> announced almost a year ago
<waspinator> I hope phone/tablet don't take so long to come to market
<nOStahl> someone said they heard there would be no ubuntu carriers till october
<Walther> but yeah, taking the TV as an example, the project was released/annoucned a year ago or so, still no images / no sources
<Walther> i seriously hope the same won't happen with phone and tablet
<nOStahl> just setup a factory to produce devices and become an ubuntu distributor partner :P
<nOStahl> then you get the imagees
<colonelqubit> The Ubuntu tablet announcement mentions support for Skype. Will there be support for Jabber/Jingle and WebRTC video chat as well?
 * AlanBell wants support for AIX and SIP
<IdleOne> We can't make money selling you free options!
<colonelqubit> Do you think Skype support is netting Ubuntu $$?
<IdleOne> no
<IdleOne> it is supposed to run a full desktop when docked to a keyboard and mouse. I assume that means it will run whatever is in the repos.
<Walther> pfft. Seriously guys, stop trolling / "joke answering"
<IdleOne> Walther: We only know as much info as is provided in the links in the topic.
<Walther> The thing is too hot at the moment for joke answers or trolling. There are way too many actual questions.
<Walther> IdleOne: Yes, but trolling / joke answering will just cause additional chaos and confusion
<IdleOne> So, if you read that info you know as much as anybody else knows.
<Walther> which isn't helpful
<IdleOne> my answer was sarcastic but not completely inaccurate from the direction I see Canonical headed in.
<IdleOne> Walther: You do make a good point though and I apologise. I'll try harder from now on not to make jokes or at least be clear when I am joking.
<Walther> no problem :P I'm not a dev or anything
<IdleOne> neither am I but you reminded me what being Ubuntu is. I had forgot for a moment :)
 * colonelqubit was on board for the joke...just wanted to confirm whether canonical was partnering with MS on skype or something
<colonelqubit> So to make some guesses: Tablet will probably run whatever's in the repos
<bkc_> AlanBell: SIP-support is available in the repos, no idea about integration in tablet-version though
<colonelqubit> however, we don't know what will be in the repos, especially for an ARM device.
<IdleOne> colonelqubit: No idea but it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to do so to generate funds. Although it would cause a lot of ugliness in the greater FOSS community.
<bkc_> IdleOne: Ubuntu is already a black sheep in the FOSS community so no worries there :)
<IdleOne> heh
<colonelqubit> IdleOne: Canonical doesn't always play nicely with the larger FLOSS community
<colonelqubit> (what bkc_ said)
<colonelqubit> I'll try to ping an early-reviewer of the device and see if they can confirm suppor
<colonelqubit> support
 * genii-around sips coffee
<bkc_> the fact that they encourages users to install driver-blobs is a major thorn in the FOSS-devs eyes ^.^
<colonelqubit> bkc_:  yeah, it sucks, but I'd rather have people using a 95%-open system than none at all
<colonelqubit> the rub comes when we get complacent with that 5%
<AlanBell> I don't think the firmware blobs are a major point of contention really
<colonelqubit> It's a tricky line to walk, especially for the companies in this game
<bkc_> yes, I'm all for FOSS, but I still use NV-blobs on my desktop because I need it for work
<bkc_> AlanBell: actually it is :/
<AlanBell> more the gnome interactions these days
<colonelqubit> AlanBell: Especially on mobile devices
<AlanBell> other derivatives have shipped flash and codecs by default
<bkc_> blobs in general have always been taboo in the FOSS community.
<colonelqubit> AlanBell: Hmmm... which derivatives?  I know that debian has some stuff in non-free, but I can't think of a distro that ships with that stuff enabled
<AlanBell> doesn't mint do that? maybe they stopped (or maybe I am wrong)
<AlanBell> heh, flash, closed java, mp3 encoding, dvd decss playback
<colonelqubit> in Mint?
<colonelqubit> must not have servers anywhere near the US...
<AlanBell> anyhow, that is a bit off topic for this channel
<colonelqubit> true
<AlanBell> I should think the tablet will have somewhat closed graphics drivers, probably using the android drivers at some level
<colonelqubit> but to bring it back on topic, I assume that only OEMs will ship Skype. Default builds will probably not
<AlanBell> well I don't know really. The OEM might want to ship skype, but the carrier will not. It sounds like Canonical want to give the carriers a great big hug at the moment.
<colonelqubit> That's a dangerous move for canonical
<colonelqubit> could cost them a lot in the community
<colonelqubit> well, actually both communities: the FOSS community, and any community they want to create around a potential product
<AlanBell> a brave and possibly even courageous move
<AlanBell> perhaps even foolhardy
<user82_> am i correct that ubuntu tablet is not compatible with android apps?
<bkc_> skype will be in the repo though (taken from the images canonical has released)
<bkc_> so it's only a click away :)
<colonelqubit> bkc_: interesting
<AlanBell> user82_: you are correct (unless someone does an interesting dalvik hack)
<user82_> thanks AlanBell
<colonelqubit> what's the status of Android compat layers? I heard some rumble about it a while back
<AlanBell> bkc_: I wonder if the carriers will let it point at the repos or whether they will want to control their own repos
<AlanBell> colonelqubit: google don't want you to do it
<colonelqubit> AlanBell: sure, but I don't think there's much they can do to stop you
<bkc_> AlanBell: are you sure there'll even be carrier-controlled versions? :)
<colonelqubit> they might be able to talk Canonical out of putting it in the repo, though
<bkc_> that's kind of anti-linux :P
<colonelqubit> bkc_: all kinds of stuff runs on liux
<colonelqubit> linux
<bkc_> yeah, sure, but "real" linux :/
<colonelqubit> The carriers just see this as a toaster
<bkc_> ^.^
<bkc_> true that :P
<AlanBell> bkc_: dunno, but that seems to be what they are aiming for at the moment, they are telling carriers they can have this and lock it down
<colonelqubit> indeed
<GuidoPallemans> Has gimp really already been morphed to qml?
<colonelqubit> the big question is whether we'll see locked-down ubuntu tablets
<colonelqubit> I guess two methods there (1) locked-down UI/repos, (2) locked-down at the hardware level
<bkc_> AlanBell: seriously? any source on that one? because that sounds retarded beyond canonical-level :P
<bkc_> from a FOSS POV that is :)
<AlanBell> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/19/4005514/ubuntu-phones-2014-might-be-locked-down-by-mobile
<bkc_> "We've had fairly substantial conversations... none of [the carriers or OEMs] have expressed a desire to recreate the fragmentation of the Android operating system," <-- from that link :/
<GuidoPallemans> Has gimp really already been morphed to qml?
<AlanBell> doubt it
<AlanBell> seeing as GTK stands for Gimp Tool Kit (or did originally)
<bkc_> ...
<bkc_> Gnome Image Manipulation Program
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTK%2B
<bkc_> yes, the almighty wikipedia that has never been wrong ;)
<AlanBell> heh, well it certainly isn't wrong in this instance
<waspinator> GNU Image Manipulation Program
<AlanBell> GIMP stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program
<waspinator> you're both wrong
<bkc_> o.O
 * AlanBell isn't wrong
<bkc_> waspinator: right, my bad on that one...
<waspinator> oh nvm. read it wrong
<bkc_> huh, actually it's right there in the first line on GTK's frontpage o.O
<popey> \o/ xkcd 386
<bkc_> TIL
<bkc_> popey: ;)
<AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/2013/02/press-pack-ubuntu-tablet/faq
<genii-around> Hm
<colonelqubit> "The OS is exactly the same in all cases â Ubuntu running on tablets is the same Ubuntu which runs on the PC, phone and TV"
<colonelqubit> ...unclear what that means about app availability
<colonelqubit> Of course, it would be hard to make that statement with a straight face and then neuter apt-get
<genii-around> If an app is available for a cpu you have in whatvever your device is
<genii-around> arm, x86, etc
<colonelqubit> right, but AlanBell (and others) have commented that the devices could be locked down
<colonelqubit> locked-down repo + ubuntu underpinnings + Unity is not "the same Ubuntu which runs on the PC"
<ubuntubhoy> Is the talk not that the OEM's might want the devices locked
<ubuntubhoy> rather than Canonical
<ubuntubhoy> so it's just guessing right now
<colonelqubit> Sure. But Ubuntu has already made this statement in public
<colonelqubit> Now we get to see if they keep it or waffle on it...
<AlanBell> well worth digging through the press pack information
 * genii-around goeas all archeologist
 * colonelqubit hands genii-around a fedora and a bullwhip
<ubuntubhoy> reading it now AlanBell
<bkc_> colonelqubit: but the carriers have said to Canonical that they aren't interested in doing stupid things like that, so the probability that they do it is slim, but it still exists :)
<bkc_> on the lock-down note :)
 * colonelqubit reading
<colonelqubit> hmm... ah, okay. I interpreted the "nobody wants fragmentation" as an argument in FAVOR of lockdown, not against it
<colonelqubit> ala Apple
<colonelqubit> I think the biggest "tool" that Ubuntu has to prevent incompatibilities is their voice
<bkc_> well, fragmentation is more UI and App-availability related than locking it down :)
<colonelqubit> kind of
<colonelqubit> if a user always has an option to upgrade their ubuntu+oem-stuff to a stock ubuntu build, then they can escape from whatever backwater they're stuck in
<colonelqubit> and get to a modern build of Ubuntu
<colonelqubit> kind of like going from whatever Android build your phone came with to Cyanogenmod
<colonelqubit> (cm isn't "upstream", but it's basically close enough)
<colonelqubit> Anyhow, as long as it's easy for the user to select that 'upgrade' path, then I think we'll all be in good shape
<colonelqubit> But I don't see OEMs or Carriers agreeing to that
<Akiva-Thinkpad> Any idea what the default webbrowser will be?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I have tried firefox mobile; wasn't impressed
<Akiva-Thinkpad> opera mobile on the other hand is fantastic.
<GuidoPallemans> probably a self-made one, relying on qt-qml's qwebkit viewer
<genii-around> I wonder what the user agent would be
<bkc_> I'm guessing webkit
<bkc_> or perhaps gecko, but webkit is already on ARM so there's less porting/optimization to do (unless gecko is also on ARM, then they're equal)
<Akiva-Thinkpad> hmmm
#ubuntu-tablet 2013-02-20
<bkc_> if you want a hint on pre-installed software, I'd go here http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android/features-and-specs and look under "Default applications"
<bkc_> :)
<bkc_> but as anything #tablet or #phone, it's not set in stone until release :)
<bkc_> or even OEM-release ;)
<doomlord> whats the status of ubuntu for tablets , i've seen somethign about ubuntu running on an n7..
<doomlord> are there many tweaks for touch input.. i think i saw 3-finger drag for window movement ... i wondered if it would get 4 finger gestures for accessing desktops (triggering expo zoom-out)
<bkc_> thursday
<bkc_> release is on thursday :)
<colonelqubit> bkc_:  I'm sure gecko can run on ARM -- consider FirefoxOS (or whatever it's been branded as these days :-)
<bkc_> yes, I remembered that juuust as I hit enter :P
<colonelqubit> gotta run
<colonelqubit> fun chatting w/y'all...
<doomlord> oh. wow. press release
<doomlord> available for N10. i need one!
<doomlord> so lets get this straight - an N10 with ubuntu tablet and external keyboard becomes a true gnu-linux desktop machine? running gcc toolchain etc?
<bkc_> perhaps
<bkc_> nobody (except for canonical and the dev-team) knows what the phone/tablet version will include/have :)
<doomlord> i'm debating an n10 purchase - the hardware is nice- but if you can turn the thing into a'true' computer then i'll  stop dithering and get one
<bkc_> there's always ubuntu-arm if all else fails :)
<M4rtinK> well, you can install and use GCC & co on a N900 or N9
<doomlord> the video is encouraging. thats definitely how things shuld work
<M4rtinK> so why not on an Ubuntu running N10
<M4rtinK> that reminds me how I used an Ubunctu chroot running under WebOS on HP Touchpad
<M4rtinK> to compile Qt Components
<doomlord> ubuntu-arm runs on n7.. anything else?
<M4rtinK> ...while sitting in a restaurant eating toasts :)
<M4rtinK> doomlord: nobody knows :)
<doomlord> i have seen viids on n7
<bkc_> n7 and n10 is basically the same device but with a larger screen... just like iPhone vs iPad :)
<doomlord> n10 is diffferent chipset i think
<doomlord> tegra3 vs otherr
<doomlord> n7 is tegra3
<doomlord> n10 is definitely not
<doomlord> wow i want to throw my ipad out of the window now
<bkc_> huuh, N10 and N7 are different vendors too o.O
<doomlord> right asus/samsung
<bkc_> TIL :D
<doomlord> i wondered how far people could get adapting desktop apps to work on a touchscreen... i know it isn't ideal but you can see various things moving toward taller buttons
<doomlord> and i always thought the 'expo/scale' concept would work really well on a touchscreen for task switching
<doomlord> imagine pinch gestures for that
<nOStahl> I'm excited for docking the phone into a tablet shell
<nOStahl> hope to see laptop shells to
<doomlord> i have an urge to join #iphone and ask if you can install ubuntu there
<bkc_> DOET! :D
<bkc_> I'll join in ^.^
<doomlord> ok im there
<nOStahl> I have an iPhone 5, you cannot install it doom lord sorry to rain on your parade
<bkc_> but you can on an iPhone 2G :)
<bkc_> and 3G iirc
<doomlord> damn i'm blocked already there lol
<doomlord> forgot about that
<bkc_> http://www.idroidproject.org/
<bkc_> blocked? :P
<bkc_> how'd'ya do that? :P
<doomlord> yeah i aasked some other questions they didnt like i think
<bkc_> apple fags ^.^
<doomlord> well not so much the questions just my persistent nature
<doomlord> some people can't handle the truth i guess
<bkc_> lol, well, there's #idroid-dev too :)
<doomlord> anyone here familiar with ubuntu arm then? :)
<bkc_> doomlord: yes and no :)
<doomlord> been porting code to android... looking forward to installing ubuntu phone and ditching the stupid java stubs
<om26er> if swipe from the right brings in the sidestage how do you quickly move between two running apps like on the phone ?
<Ben__> Hello
<Ben__> I saw you are making an OS for Tablets
<Ben__> I have a Nexus 7 and was curious to what all you can do with Ubuntu on it
<Ben__> such as, does the GPS work? NFC? Front Camera? etc..
<Ben__> hello?
<GuidoPallemas> try #ubuntu-phone, the tablet source will take some time
<thebishop> can't wait to install ubuntu tablet on my Nexus7, but the UI video makes me think it'll be a bit nicer on a 10"
<nOStahl> I'm sure its responsive :)
<thebishop> the nexus7 is a pretty powerful little tablet, i'm more concerned with the UI design decisions.  they look good, but maybe better suited for 10"  i guess i'll find out tomorrow
<Walther> When will the iamges/source be available btw?
<Walther> I can't wait to isntall the thing on my nexus 7
<thebishop> i read thursday on arstechnica
<thebishop> today PS4, tomorrow Ubuntu Tablet.  nice week for tech
<thebishop> now if only Samsung would announce release details on the new Series 7 Chronos, my tech life for the next year would be complete
<mrtharepist> hey, any idea if the ability of Ubuntu to use C in development will make it easier to develop for iOS and Ubuntu mobile?
<doomlord> i thinkso
<doomlord> oh wait let me reithink the question..
<doomlord> easier to develop FOR iOS,  i initially speed read it as "easier to develop for than iOS"
<doomlord> i think it will be easier to do crossplatform between iOS & ubuntu-mobile since c,c++,objC are all availalbe on both,compared to the strange Java setup in android
<doomlord> and i think ubuntu-mobile will be easier to develop for as you have the full desktop on the device for debugging, compile-edit run cycle
<doomlord> which is likely to be more stable & optimized: ubuntu-tablet on N7 or ubuntu-tablet on N10
<thebishop> doomlord, don't you think the toolkits are more of a portability issue for android/iOS than the language?
<thebishop> you could just as easily write Java on ubuntu+android and have portability problems with iOS
<thebishop> i'd guess that is more likely than people doing objective C on Ubuntu
<doomlord> yes you're right, but at least with the same language its easier to take a wine approach
<doomlord> perhaps community will get behind cocotron ..
<doomlord> i would personally like to see more increasingle touchfriendly desktop apps (think of machines like lenovo yoga, or transformer prime)
<doomlord> phone/tablet/desktop ideally is just the size of the window
<bkc_> mrtharepist: yes, UbuntuTablet/Phone will have Native Apps in C/C++ or with Ubuntu SDK (which is basically Qt with a custom theme)
<bkc_> mrtharepist: Android/iOS/Ubuntu are have three totally different sets of SDKs, APIs and Languages (Java, Obj-C, C/C++/JS) so the portability-issue will still be there unless you do WebApps :)
<bkc_> I hate it when I don't read the entire question ^.^
<doomlord> need a nice crossplatform c++ gui built on pure opengl, then you could write once an run on ios,ndk ... but is thtat baasically what qt is?
<bkc_> actually there is one :)
<bkc_> It's called WebKit :D
<mrtharepist> bkc_: but sharing libraries is not really possible between android/ios.
<doomlord> all we really need is the ability to install ubuntu on more devices
<mrtharepist> if you write c++ functions, you can use them for both.
<bkc_> actually C-libs, C++ is a completely different mess in itself :)
<doomlord> yeah i like to say c/c++
<bkc_> doomlord: no, we need apache on every phone ^.^
<bkc_> doomlord: huge difference when it comes to libs :)
<doomlord> i'm not a c++ coder who hates c, i'm a c/c++ coder
<doomlord> c++ is c with some extentions, some of which are useful
<bkc_> yes, sort of...
<mrtharepist> yeah. c++ is just a ++ version of c. with a bunch of object oriented fun.
<doomlord> some of which is useful, some of which is irritating
<bkc_> I use C++ "exclusively" in that I almost always compile with g++/clang++ instead of gcc/clang :)
<bkc_> and I abuse classes/inheritance/templeting etc
<doomlord> yeah i use a C++ compiler, and can't go back due to use of many features ,but a lot of code i write would be slated by advocates of some sort of pure pure C++
<mrtharepist> IDK I was hoping that there would be a way to streamline the development process so that it makes it easier to go cross platform.
<doomlord> i get the impression it might help
<doomlord> e.g., with ubuntu phone you might find more community interest in contributing to cocotron (wine like port of apple apis)
<mrtharepist> I have been learning obj-C because there is some serious money there.
<mrtharepist> going to android's SDK has been so horrible. I am hoping ubuntu's SDK is better.
<bkc_> well, you have a more flexible system under linux
<doomlord> i've only used NDK .. written a tiny amount of java to hand values across to me wrapper
<doomlord> not really serious use of android on my part
<thebishop> mrtharepist, you don't like android's SDK?  i think it's great personally
<Darkwing> Quick Q. With the images be up for Nexus 7 and Nexus 10 tomorrow or, just the Nexus 7?
<thebishop> the callbacks for app state changes are a little weird, but i think you can largely build an app without them and then add them after the app is mostly solid
<thebishop> Darkwing, Arstechnica reported images for both.  that's the most 'official' info i've seen
<Darkwing> Okay cool.
<Darkwing> Now if I can just find out for the Galaxy Nexus, if its only maguro or if toro will be subborted.
<mhall119> Darkwing: only maguro from what I understand
<Darkwing> That's what I thought too.
<Darkwing> Thanks mhall119
<mhall119> np
<mhall119> also, both Nexus 7 and 8 (also N4 and GNex) images should all be available tomorrow
<Darkwing> Okay. any date on source?
<Darkwing> source code
<mhall119> tomorrow
<Darkwing> whoot
<mhall119> everything goes out tomorrow
<Darkwing> that means tomorrow I start hacking for toro
<mhall119> \o/
<Darkwing> having a toro I want it... bad.
<SimpleBlue> sweet, a channel for tablets :)
<ptl> <- Nexus 4 & Nexus 7 ready to receive new OSs!
<ptl> please release it soon, bought them just for that!
<Jonathan_R> i  have an exopc tablet and read about ubuntu for tablets. i currently am running opensuse but cant get multitouch to work. how would this be accomplished in ubuntu
<thebishop> Jonathan_R, not that I have any insider info here, but that's more of a general linux question than an Ubuntu question i think.
<thebishop> if the kernel supports your hardware, and there's a compatible xorg-input module, you should be good
<Jonathan_R> you would think
<thebishop> well i wouldn't expect every random tablet to 'just' work with tomorrow's preview release
<Jonathan_R> i worked on the plasma active team doing troubleshooting and documentatin
<thebishop> seems like there are a handful of (mostly Nexus) devices which have been tested heavily.  haven't seen any confirmation of anything else
<thebishop> although there is a table of tablets on Ubuntu's radar:
<Jonathan_R> but thus far have never gotten multitouch to work
<Jonathan_R> the exopc is on the ubuntu tablet list
<Jonathan_R> if i had a way to download the ubuntu tablet iso or something i could test it
<Jonathan_R> or maybe theres a ppa to add to ubuntu
<ericmcray> hello guys. can ask you few question about ubuntu for tablet?
<k1l> just ask
<GuidoPallemans> faq though: http://www.ubuntu.com/2013/02/press-pack-ubuntu-tablet/faq
<k1l> if someone knows it you get the answer (maybe with some delay)
<k1l> yes, the faq is quite handy
<ericmcray> is it going to be possible install ubuntu to any tablet which can run android?
<belak> Any idea when the tablet release will be out?
<belak> I noticed that there's supposed to be a tablet dev preview relatively soon...
<k1l> someone mentioned the code comes tomorrow with the phone code release. but im not sure if that is officially confirmed
<netcurli> jono just confirmed that at the ubuntuonair hangout
<ericmcray> from ubuntu web site: "The system code for phones and tablets will be published on Feb 21st under the normal Ubuntu process"
<belak> "normal ubuntu process"?
<netcurli> the code should be published in launchpad
<k1l> thx, netcurli
<ptl> at what time of day?
<k1l> just before midnight form the next day
<ptl> k1l :(
<belak> Will just the code be released that day, or will a binary release be done as well?
<netcurli> there should be also images for the nexus phones/tablets tomorrow
<netcurli> and jono said, we could expect the dev release tomorrow afternoon european time
<rob_w> will a "platform builder"  be available tomorrow ?
<rob_w> or toolchain or such
<belak> Score. I'm looking forward to playing with it on my N7
<belak> First phone platform I'm really interested in
<belak> Well, mobile platform
<greenchris_> why can't they release it now :(
<greenchris_> want to install it on my n4 and n7
<belak> lol
<greenchris_> :D
<greenchris_> the first mobile platform i like more than android
<belak> greenchris_: well, it still remains to be seen...
<belak> ;)
<greenchris_> yes...
<Nexus7Guy> Yo!
<Nexus7Guy> Can somoene help me with a user issue I have on my Ubuntu installation?
<Nexus7Guy> Running on Nexus 7
<Nexus7Guy> :/
<belak> Nexus7Guy: well, it's almost impossible to help if you don't mention what the problem is
<belak> ;)
<Nexus7Guy> k. Well I have downloaded the preinstall image and now I cant login to root
<Nexus7Guy> The only username thats avail at the login screen is Guest
<Nexus7Guy> I cant execute any sudo commands under Guest to do anything about it
<Nexus7Guy> I have tried logging in on thelogin screen to root with the password ubuntu but it just says authentication failed
<Nexus7Guy> Any ideas on what I should do? :(
<belak> Nexus7Guy: can you run sudo with the password ubuntu?
<Nexus7Guy> Nope
<Nexus7Guy> Because thers only the guest account which denys me access with root alltogether
<belak> Well, that's my only idea... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/UsingTheDevice#sudo_password
<Nexus7Guy> That wont work :( darn
<belak> iirc there should have been a user named ubuntu, but it's been a while since I've tried...
<Nexus7Guy> Hmm
<Nexus7Guy> I have tried logging into username Ubuntu
<Nexus7Guy> but I havent trie dmultiple passwords
<belak> I may download it and try... so I can let you know what I run into
<Nexus7Guy> Sweet!
<Nexus7Guy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/current
<Nexus7Guy> Got it from there :/
<Nexus7Guy> No idea why I cant just login
<Jonathan_R> i had to login as root
<Jonathan_R> add the usergroup and member that was supposed to be created on install
<Jonathan_R> then login as user
<Nexus7Guy> Sadly I cant login to root :(
<Nexus7Guy> Tried the password ubuntu but it just says no
<Nexus7Guy> "/
<Jonathan_R> can you get to termal?
<Jonathan_R> sudo su -
<Nexus7Guy> Yeah I can get to terminal but it denies me acess to sudo
 * Jonathan_R doesnt like sudo
<Nexus7Guy> ANd I have tried su and that just asks for password so I put in ubuntu ansd still no
<Nexus7Guy> xD
<k1l> dont use sudo su -. use sudo -i
<Jonathan_R> i prefer su to sudo
<Nexus7Guy> It says unable to change sudoers gid: Operation not permitted
<k1l> Jonathan_R: its not the ubuntu way
<Jonathan_R> what about getting to root via grub
<Nexus7Guy> Not sure how I would go about editing a premade .img file
<Jonathan_R> k1l, no, i suppose its not, but i never liked sudo
<Jonathan_R> you dont Nexus7Guy
<Jonathan_R> boot like normal
<Jonathan_R> on grub i think its option 1
<Nexus7Guy> Ahh yeah, but Im using multirom, as far as I know theres no Grub acess
<Nexus7Guy> Multirom boots directly into the image
<Jonathan_R> you should still see grub
<Jonathan_R> if yes, then in the grub menu i think its 1
<Jonathan_R> for single user
<Nexus7Guy> Yeah but sadly I dont see grub :( I didnt even know Grub was compiled for ARM
<Jonathan_R> it can be
<Nexus7Guy> ah ok. Sadly I dont see any grub at a;l
<Jonathan_R> wether thats the case here or not i dont know
<Jonathan_R> check the package list or manifest list
<Nexus7Guy> Sorry to be noobish but how would I do that?
<k1l> Nexus7Guy: i dont think that works just with the image. there was a install application from ubuntu which deleted the whole nexus
<Jonathan_R> the same sight you got the download from
<Nexus7Guy> ah I see
<k1l> Nexus7Guy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation
<Jonathan_R> i have an exopc that had win7 on it but now has opensuse, getting ready for some version of ubuntu
<Demestor> When can we expect a Ubuntu version for the x86 Motorola Razr i
<Jonathan_R> just doin my homework first
<k1l> Demestor: noone knows when
<k1l> or even if
<Demestor> Thx .. hopefully as explained on the Ubuntu Homepage they think about ..
<Jonathan_R> Demestor, i can tell you this
<k1l> Demestor: the razr i got very different hardware. dont know if this will be a target
<Jonathan_R> ubuntu is the only distro doing this other than open-sl
<Demestor> i know .. the x86 CPU was a reason for me to choose it
<Jonathan_R> and ubuntu is leading the way
<Jonathan_R> open-slx is still on plasma active 2
<Jonathan_R> wb thebishop
<thebishop> ????
<Demestor> Ok another question.. like seen in the youtube videos it seems there is a running version of a mobile Ubuntu out yet. Anyone have an image of this?
<GuidoPallemans> tomorrow afternoon european time it's downloadable
<k1l> Demestor: yes the devs got a runnning image
<GuidoPallemans> a dev image though
<GuidoPallemans> does anybody know how to install it on a VM?
<k1l> Demestor: it is to be released tomorrow. but be told that this is a dev image and not ready to use for the masses
<Demestor> thx.. so i patiently wait
<Demestor> see ya all
<Jonathan_R> k1l, that would be what i would want then
<doomlord> hmm do i get n7 or n10 or n4
<k1l> get all of them :)
<tgm4883> Is there hardware acceleration on the nexus tablets with Ubuntu yet?
#ubuntu-tablet 2013-02-21
<doomlord> does gl work on it
<ptl> tgm4883: yes, there is
<ptl> tgm4883: but it is opengl ES, not openGL
<ptl> openarena, tuxracer, sauerbraten and the likes will not be playable
<ptl> :(
<doomlord> GL -> GL|ES requires a little reworking sure,
<doomlord> but itts not so far
<doomlord> my own gl code runs on desktop GL & GL|ES with a few defines patching over the minor differences
<tgm4883> ptl, doomlord good to know. I'm guessing that doesn't bode well for hardware accelerated video playback (eg. mpeg2 and mpeg4)
<doomlord> i'm pretty sure people will port GL to GL|ES in no time
<doomlord> its non-destructive
<doomlord> for me i did it because my 3d source is crossplatform between linux,mac,iOS and android
<doomlord> heh, the big one is BLENDER .. will that run on a tablet..
<SoulShadow> well i probably already know the answer because this channel doesn't seem focused to the same thing
<SoulShadow> but since main #ubuntu is useless, has anyone installed ubuntu on a clover trail tab?
<AlanBell> SoulShadow: is that an arm tablet?
<AlanBell> ah no, that is the new name for Atom isn't it
<AlanBell> so that should just be ubuntu desktop, 64 bit, booting from USB if you are lucky and there is no secure boot stuff going on
<timhansen> any update on the touch developer preview release?
 * timhansen poke
<netcurli> it will be released today
<netcurli> they are working on it
<ali1234> anyone on quantal trying to use adb with nexus 7/android 4.2.2, you need to upgrade adb to the version from raring or it won't work.
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/android-tools/+bug/1131163
<fyksen> Hey! Is the image out yet?
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-tablet to: Welcome to #ubuntu-tablet | http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tablet | This channel is logged to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU | Nope, not yet
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<netcurli> :D
<chouchoune> haha, next question : what time ? ;)
 * chouchoune joking
<fyksen> A norwegian IT news site said that it was yout, but I couldn't find it.. It's a joke of a site, so not supriced..
<Walther> I heard a rumour that the image-to-be-released doesn't have *anything* actually *functional* apart from the movie player
<Walther> as in, you can't really add user accounts, edit contacts, etc
<Walther> as in, being only really for dev and testing, not for enthusiasts
<Walther> I'd love to have some clarification over that
<AlanBell> Walther: it is pre-loaded with data from the Canonical's personas, Lola Chang etc
<Walther> mmhm, can those be edited; as in, remove defaults and add own?
<Walther> or is it really just a "demo" image for the time being
<AlanBell> we will find out later I should think. I expect you will have a happier time with it if your expectations are to be able to ssh to it and deploy QML stuff and read the source of the core apps
<Walther> Plus, what's the status of dualboot support? at least for the time being I'd really appreciate dualbooting possibility between stock and ubuntu
 * AlanBell doesn't think that is possible
<Walther> heh, of course. And one of the expectations is to actually poke through the UI and perhaps start writing and testing something
<Walther> Hmm. There are multiROM things for android devices, it should be possible unless specifically restricted otherwise
<ubuntubhoy> Walther: I think the Multi-boot on XDA should work once you have the image
<Walther> and at least imho canonical would be shooting themselves in the feet by intentionally restricting the dualboot possiblity :P
<Walther> ubuntubhoy: ok, let's hope so
<AlanBell> Walther: it is nothing to do with restricting a feature that exists, ARM things don't boot to GRUB like intel devices
<ali1234> they boot to u-boot
<ali1234> which exists for tegra3
<Walther> AlanBell: yup, i know, but I thought the default bootloaders and the multiROM things can still give the possibility
<Walther> the dualboot support doesn't really have to be from GRUB per se, as long as there is a *way* for dualbooting
<ubuntubhoy> there will be a hackable way
<ubuntubhoy> there 'nearly' always is
<Walther> mmh. I just hope that the official message from Canonical won't be "don't do it" but "you can do it if you want but we prefer this way"
<Walther> Also, how's the device support going to be? Nexus 10 seems to be the main focus based on the pictures, how about Nexus 7?
<ubuntubhoy> thats fine
<ubuntubhoy> N7 is supported
<AlanBell> Walther: they talked about N7 and N10
<ubuntubhoy> it says so on the web page
<ubuntubhoy> N7, N10, N4 & GNex
<ubuntubhoy> all one image
<Walther> Sweet
<ubuntubhoy> interface is dependant on the device
<Walther> Hm. How about support for other devices, say, Nokia's linux phone N9
<ubuntubhoy> hacker community will need to do that
<ubuntubhoy> right now it's just the 4 Nexus devices
<AlanBell> the nexus devices are from different manufacturers and rather different hardware
<ubuntubhoy> but TBH, I bet this is ported to a few devices within 24hrs
<Walther> hacker community *will* do that, obviously, but what after then; will they stay as "custom ports with the responsibility being on the hackers themselves" or would it be possible to merge the couple lines of code to upstream?
<Walther> yes, i'm *sure* within a day or two the image will be on a dozen or so other devices
<ubuntubhoy> It will be like AOSP - there is the code, it's up to you
<ubuntubhoy> no official support
<Walther> but the main question is will the project go the android way or the cool way :P
<ubuntubhoy> got to be that way
<Walther> the problem with AOSP is that if you're dealing with a "custom port", even if it is only a couple lines different, you're (in some cases) restricting yourself out from the official updates and tied to the custom rom
<Walther> well, it doesn't *have* to be that way. Think desktops- drivers for different HW are included in genkernel
<Walther> and/or linux-firmware and whatnot
<ubuntubhoy> But you can't expect official support for even a small %age of the handsets out there
<ubuntubhoy> once they have an OEM or two on-board they will be the official support
<ubuntubhoy> everything else will be hacked
<Walther> at least in my humble opinion, it would be a big wildcard for Canonical to actually merge at least some of the community code for hw support, making it more of a "linux" distro
<Walther> like it goes on the desktop
<ubuntubhoy> they may via kernel stuff
<Walther> someone adds support for something, makes a pull request, code gets reviewed, accepted, pushed, etc
<ubuntubhoy> but I doubt official support will follow
<Walther> I really, really hope the support for other devices will go the linux-on-desktop way instead of the android way
<Walther> especially since the ubuntu tablet/phone project is still taking its baby steps in the real world, there's the chance of making it "right" from the beginning
<Walther> (I wouldn't mid if you spread the word among the devs on this one, really.)
<Walther> Of course I understand that *promising* official support for multiple devices would be painful and difficult, causing problems. But on the other hand, accepting pull requests to the upstream would be magnificent and a significant improvement over the AOSP / Android custom rom way
<Walther> But I can almost bet that half or so of the "custom roms" of android for different devices actually share quite many lines of "custom code" that could have just been pulled to the official images/sources if someone were in that mood, but no. Instead aosp devs have to actually make separate images/sources per device
<Walther> (I truly hope some devs are reading this and considering this change)
<ali1234> they don't have to make separate sources per device
<ali1234> they could all collaborate if they wanted to, even if google doesn't want to
<ali1234> google can't stop everyone else froom sharing a repo
<ali1234> the problem is custom android rom authors don't know how to, or do not want to collaborate
<ali1234> a large number of them don't even release their source
<ali1234> many don't even use the source and just use someone else's binaries to build their rom
<ali1234> you can look forward to them doing all the same things with ubuntu, once it is released
<Walther> mm.
<Walther> But I really hope that there would be some sort of a centralized way
<Walther> prett ypretty please for the canonical devs: make an "official unofficial repo" of sorts
<Walther> so that the actual custom build sources could be shared with others and be collaborative and... well, you know, like you said about how AOSP devs *could* do it but don't because they're lazy or whatnot, if there was a centralized "sandbox" approved by Canonical, even if not supported per se, it could actually nudge the right people to the right direction
<ali1234> no, it couldn't
<Walther> It could make a *huge* difference. Especially now when the thing is not released yet.
<Walther> care to elaborate on your opinion?
<ali1234> android has this; it doesn't make a damn difference
<Walther> Wouldn't hurt to try? :P
<ali1234> custom roms need too much stolen proprietary software to even boot
<ali1234> most of the "custom" in custom roms is used without any kind of permission
<ali1234> the open source parts are usually not changed in any way
<Walther> this wouldn't possibly be the case with ubuntu sources though, afaik?
<ali1234> sure it would
<ali1234> it needs proprietary drivers
<ali1234> there is no reason at all to change the UI source code just to port it to another device
<ali1234> the drivers are not open source
<ali1234> porting ubuntu to, say, SGS3, would require building an image with samsung drivers in it, and not much else
<ubuntubhoy> just switching libs
<ubuntubhoy> TBF though, that is exactly the same as Linux distro's - just a change of theme and default apps in a lot of cases
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, the difference is that proprietary drivers won't be available for the SGS3
<ubuntubhoy> as they are not for loads of custom ROMs
<Walther> whereas they are for nexi?
<ubuntubhoy> but they hack them in
<Walther> i thouhgt the nexus family was proprietary as well
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, incorrect. There are proprietary drivers available for android for the SGS3
<tgm4883> custom roms still use android
<tgm4883> Walther, I believe the nexii family is pretty open
<ubuntubhoy> Android yes, but when a Sense ROM is ported to Samsung say - the drivers are added
<tgm4883> Walther, hence why the new nexus doesn't have LTE anymore
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, a sense rom still runs android
<Walther> The only thing I really want is proper support comparable to that of desktop distros.
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, thats basically the difference between kde and gnome
<ubuntubhoy> but is built with dif drivers
<Walther> Not only hacked-together for specific devices
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, no it's not
<ubuntubhoy> tgm4883: of course it is
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, do you understand how drivers work with the kernel?
<ubuntubhoy> yes
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, when sense is ported to sgs3, they use drivers from the SGS3 rom
<ubuntubhoy> exactly
<ubuntubhoy> not from the kernel
<ubuntubhoy> from the ROM
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, and?
<ubuntubhoy> so they are basically copying bits and bobs from one ROM to another
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, so?
<ubuntubhoy> how does a Linux distro differ ?
<ubuntubhoy> many, not all are just kitchens
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, in regards to proprietary drivers?
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, ah, you are under the impression that android is a linux distro
<ubuntubhoy> no
<ubuntubhoy> I am saying that a custom ROM is like a distro
<ubuntubhoy> LIKE
<ubuntubhoy> not the same
<ubuntubhoy> I take Ubuntu and change it
<ubuntubhoy> and call it a distro
<ubuntubhoy> new wallpaper and apps etc
<Walther> My point was basically that you can take a Ubuntu live cd and install it on a Intel machine with Nvidia gpu with Kingston RAM with ASUS motherboard with Seagate HDD
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, ok, but you still want to take proprietary drivers from android SGS3 and use it on ubuntu?
<ubuntubhoy> I was not going that far into it
<Walther> or take the *same* image and install on a AMD cpu with mushkin ram with samsung ssd ...
<Walther> And it still works. Even if you might *want* to add proprietary drivers to your GPU to have it supported more thoroughly, the same install image gets you a working setup on any PC
<Walther> and *that* is what I'd love to see with mobile devices and ubuntu as well
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, wasn't your point in that they could take and port the ubuntu image to an SGS3?
<ubuntubhoy> tgm4883: my point was that ROM devs were stated as not being devs at all, I just said the same is true for many Linux distro's
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, ah
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, I misunderstood what you said then
<ubuntubhoy> no worries
<ptl> how do I dock my Ubuntu Phone / Tablet if neither Nexus 4 nor Nexus 7 have HDMI outputs?
<ubuntubhoy> OTG cable and hub is how I do it
<tgm4883> ptl, why would you need HDMI for that?
<ubuntubhoy> but not HDMI
<tgm4883> Walther, I see no reason that wouldn't work
<ptl> OTG cable - got it. So 'docking' is just attaching keyboard and mouse?
<ubuntubhoy> no
<ubuntubhoy> you get all different kinds of docks
<ubuntubhoy> some audio etc
<tgm4883> Walther, in fact, there is a page for installing ubuntu on devices that there isn't an image for
<ubuntubhoy> why do you want to dock ?
<ptl> to check the 'desktop' interface on them
<ubuntubhoy> are you confusing Ubuntu touch with Ubuntu for Android ?
<ptl> is there any other way to change the interface than docking?
<ptl> I don't think so
<ubuntubhoy> you dont change the interface on Ubuntu touch
<ubuntubhoy> UfA changes you Android interface to a desktop Ubuntu one
<ptl> I thought you did. Thanks for clarifying though. :)
<ubuntubhoy> once docked
<ptl> I know
<ptl> but judging from the videos it seemed that Ubuntu Phone would do the same thing
<ubuntubhoy> Ubuntu Touch is a whole new OS for your device
<Walther> tgm4883: the point was merely that there are no separate ubuntu images for intel, amd, ... asus, samsung, ibm, etc...
<tgm4883> ptl, I'm unsure if there is a way to change that, but I've seen code that allows you to do that in a custom unity
<tgm4883> Walther, because they are all basically the same, they follow a standard
<ali1234> Walther: that's because PCs have a bios which hides hardware differences. ARM does not.
<tgm4883> Walther, which is why you won't install ubuntu on an SGS3, you'll install it on <insert ARM chip here>
<Walther> ah, there's no proper harware abstraction at boot-level
<ali1234> it's also because all the drivers you need to make a PC work up to a terminal are open source
<ali1234> this is not true for ARM
<Walther> Hmm.
<ali1234> you will have no visual display at all without proprietary drivers on most ARM socs
<ali1234> and no sound
<tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, I wouldn't go that far. Just a new DE
<ali1234> and absolutely 100% no radio on any of them
<tgm4883> It's still ubuntu underneath
<ptl> you can get visual display using the framebuffer usually
<ali1234> tgm4883: and underneath that it's android
<ubuntubhoy> which is new on an Android device, no ?
<tgm4883> ali1234, is it?
<ptl> accelerated graphics are the ones that need proprietary drivers
<ali1234> tgm4883: wait and see i guess
<ubuntubhoy> I want the UI to be installable on the Desktop OS
<tgm4883> ali1234, I doubt that. This is Ubuntu Table and Ubuntu Phone, not Ubuntu for android (which are very different projects)
<ubuntubhoy> and be hot switchable with mhy current DE
<ptl> Walther: the current state of Graphics support for Ubuntu on ARM is given by this URL: http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/02/14/open-arm-gpu-drivers-fosdem-2013-video-and-call-to-arm-management/
<ali1234> tgm4883: well, i think you'll be in for a surprise
<tgm4883> ali1234, I don't believe this is the demo that was shown at UDS
<ptl> ali1234: it's the android kernel indeed
<tgm4883> ali1234, I don't see why it would be better if it was
<ali1234> btw, ubuntu for android is not android "underneath" - ubuntu and android run as equals in separate VMs in that configuration
<ali1234> it isn't better
<tgm4883> ali1234, yes I know
<tgm4883> ali1234, but you access it from android.
<tgm4883>  /speculation
<ali1234> what does that have to do with anything?
<Walther> I really hope that ARM would become open source'd as soon as possible.
<Walther> Seriously, that's pretty much the last thing keeping ARM from truly overtaking x86(_64) PC cpus
<ptl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch -- "Is this something to do with Linaro? " - A: "There does not appear to be any Linaro involvement at the moment but some parts of the Linaro toolchain such as the compiler are being used. The kernel being used on the demo systems is the Android Open Source Project kernel."
<tgm4883> ali1234, only that what I believe we're getting today will remove your ability to get to android (as it will overwrite it)
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it will remove your ability to use android UI
<ptl> ARM is patent-based
<ptl> they don't build chips
<ptl> the license them
<ptl> *they license them
<ali1234> but it runs on top of a minimal android system with a compatibility wrapper that allows ubuntu to use the proprietary android drivers
<Walther> ptl: i know. They could still open-source their software
<ali1234> remembe when they said "it can use android drivers"
<tgm4883> ali1234, well if it's using underlying android OS, then there is no reason this wouldn't easily work on non-nexus devices
<ptl> but it would be very nice if the MALI division of ARM would open-source their GPU drivers
<Walther> would definitely not decrease their HW sales, on the contrary
<ali1234> tgm4883: exactly, that's the whole point
<tgm4883> ali1234, no, i don't remember when they said that
<ptl> they almost do
<ptl> but there are closed source parts in the X11 driver
<ptl> the kernel part is open-sourced
<k1l_> ali1234: it can run with android kernel and use their drivers
<Walther> Btw, any ideas on merging #ubuntu-phone and #ubuntu-tablet into #ubuntu-touch?
<k1l_> ali1234: its not an android "rom"
<Walther> especially if they are essentially the same thing
<tgm4883> Walther, no, they should be separate
<ptl> Walther: they should all be in #ubuntu-arm :)
<ptl> I am currently running a small domestic lab with ARM devices
<tgm4883> ptl, in that case, lets axe #kubuntu as well
<Walther> tgm4883: hmm, why?
<k1l_> since tablet and phone and arm are different UIs with different systems underneath they should stay seperated. at least when hardware comes to the game
<Walther> I do understand the not-merging-to ubuntu-arm
<ptl> UG802, ODROID X2, two CuBoxes, Minix Neo X5, Nexus 7, Nexus 4, GK802, S21D/MK812
<Walther> but -phone and -tablet should pretty much be the same, no?
<SoulShadow> so ubuntu for phones/tablets can install right over android?
<Walther> ptl: ooh, is the CuBox any good?
<tgm4883> Walther, because when people come here for support, it would be better to have separate channels since they are separate devices?
<Walther> tgm4883: hmm, point
<SoulShadow> Walther: well, to be fair there's two versions of ubuntu for tablets
<ptl> Walther: very good except for the processor: single core, low frequency :(
<ali1234> what are separate devices now?
<ptl> I am thinking of maybe buying an arndale board
<Walther> ptl: still better than pi's cpu though
<ali1234> there is #ubuntu-phone too?
<ptl> is it any good?
<SoulShadow> yes there is #ubuntu-phone
<tgm4883> ali1234, yes
<ali1234> why?
<Walther> ptl: i've considered getting a one mainly for home server / nas purposes
<ptl> Walther: sure, Raspberry Pi is ARMv6... all these devices if mine ar ARMv7
<tgm4883> there is also #ubuntu-tv
<k1l_> #ubuntu-arm is the desktop OS on ARM systems. its different from mobile devices
<SoulShadow> because Ubuntu for Mobile
<Walther> ptl: yup, i know
<Walther> Btw, any news on the ubuntu tv project btw? :P
<ali1234> there are too many thing and i am confused
<ptl> k1l_: convergence, man, convergence :P
<Walther> i've still not seen any images / any source / any devices *at all*, ever :P
<popey> Walther: join #ubuntu-tv
<Walther> and the thing was announced like ...a year ago?
<popey> you haven't looked
<ali1234> #ubuntu-phone is for ubuntu for android?
<popey> no
<ali1234> this channel is for ubuntu touch?
<popey> we dont have a channel for ubuntu for android
<ptl> Walther: there has been a small public repository set for it on 12.04. I could not install it
<SoulShadow> ubuntu for android is basically #ubuntu-arm
<k1l_> ali1234: its for ubuntu-tablets
<ptl> Walther: I had to install in a VM... but it did not work (Ubuntu TV)
<ali1234> so why are there two channels for ubuntu touch?
<Walther> ptl: sad
<popey> ali1234: historic
<SoulShadow> because different devices, ali1234
<SoulShadow> what don't you get about this?
<Walther> ali1234: answered a minute ago or so; different devices
<SoulShadow> phones and tablets are not the same, and the OS is not exactly the same either
<tgm4883> ptl, what parts didn't work? I mean it's still early but it should have been functional?
<k1l_> ali1234: its two different UIs
<tgm4883> well, partially functional
<popey> we could well merge the channels
<SoulShadow> wait people are using ubuntu TV?
<ali1234> SoulShadow: so why isn't there #ubntu-nexus7 #ubuntu-nexus4 #ubuntu-nexus10 #ubuntu-gnex - they are all different devices?
<tgm4883> SoulShadow, early builds
<SoulShadow> ali1234: because n7 and n10 are tablets
<ptl> tgm4883: none, I followed the instructions and unity crashed on boot, wouldn't work at all. As I did not want to spend too long on it, I just destroyed the VM
<SoulShadow> so, #ubuntu-tablet
<SoulShadow> and n4 and gnex are phones, so, #ubuntu-phone
<SoulShadow> they are different enough to deserve their own channels
<ubuntubhoy> To me Tablet has grown out of Phone, hence the late announcement
<k1l_> ali1234: its differnent device classes. like desktop and notebook.
<ubuntubhoy> they got to a point and thought, 'we can use a single image for this'
<ali1234> there isn't much difference between a tablet and a phone
<ali1234> except that a tablet can't make phone calls
<ubuntubhoy> rather than two different images
<ptl> some tablets can make phone calls
<popey> yeah, as I said, we could probably merge the channels
<ali1234> indeed
<k1l_> ali1234: ok, i think you just have to accept that :)
<ptl> my old galaxy tab can do that
<ali1234> is dell streak a tablet or a phone?
 * AlanBell used to have a dell streak
<tgm4883> ptl, no, they lack the cell chips to do that right?
<AlanBell> phablet \o/
<tgm4883> ptl, you were just using voip?
<ali1234> or is it a phablet? :)
<k1l_> AlanBell: we need more confusing on this one :)
<Walther> Any info on at which hour the sources/images will be made public? It's *today*, but?
 * AlanBell has confusion and befuddlement to spare
<ali1234> 11:59pm
<AlanBell> eastern
<tgm4883> Walther, I'd guess in about 6 hours
 * tgm4883 is trying to remember when regular releases happen
<SoulShadow> depends on what timezone they're using
<Walther> while i'm in a party. Great.
<Walther> :D
<AlanBell> when its ready
<tgm4883> I think around noon eastern time
<SoulShadow> noon eastern would be 2 1/2 hours
<tgm4883> SoulShadow, yea, i changed my guess
<ptl> tgm4883: no, my galaxy tab 1 had normal 3G and I did make phone calls with it
<tgm4883> I just didn't tell you ;P
<ali1234> hmm
<ptl> I took the 3G sim off but it used to be my cellphone
<tgm4883> ptl, nice. What network allows you to make calls over 3g?
<ali1234> was there a new qt5 sdk released the other day?
<ptl> in Brazil? All of them
<ali1234> actually it's in a PPA so it should auto update right?
<ptl> Vivo, Claro, Oi, TIM
<tgm4883> cool
<SoulShadow> you can always make a call over 3g
<SoulShadow> it's called voip
<SoulShadow> it's *always* voip
<tgm4883> ptl, I don't think they allow that in the US
<ali1234> backup up my nexus with carbon. the backup size counter has overflowed and is now going backwards
<tgm4883> SoulShadow, true
<ptl> What I mean is that I did not use any internet-wrapper like skype.
<ptl> I used the native dialer
<SoulShadow> did you use SIP settings?
<ptl> no
<ptl> It was a regular cellphone, just bigger.
<SoulShadow> that's unusual
<ali1234> nexus 7 has an option for 3G as well
<SoulShadow> nexus 7 3g is data only
<SoulShadow> so you would need voip
<ali1234> that sucks
<ubuntubhoy> how so ? If it is connected to the network it should work for calls as well
<Walther> strangely enough, i did receive a couple SMS from my carrier :P
<SoulShadow> ubuntubhoy: doesn't work that way
<tgm4883> isn't all US 3g data only?
<Walther> when I put in their sim for the nexus 7 3g
<SoulShadow> no
<ali1234> ubuntubhoy: radio rom needs voice codecs
<SoulShadow> the SOC in tablets doesn't support voice calls
<ubuntubhoy> so it's a ROM issue, and not a hardware one
<ali1234> yep SMS doesn't need voice codec :)
<SoulShadow> ubuntubhoy: no, it's a hardware issue.
<ali1234> ubuntubhoy: it can be hardware issue too
<ali1234> ubuntubhoy: mic is wired directly to radio chipset
<ali1234> in phones that is
<ubuntubhoy> hmm
<SoulShadow> APQ8064 and Tegra 3 do not have voice support
<ali1234> you can't inject wave data into phone call
<ali1234> so you need hardwared mic
<SoulShadow> unless paired with the proper baseband
<ubuntubhoy> I am sure I have saw articles where a N7 has been used as a phone, and not via voip
<SoulShadow> nope
<ali1234> well, go find them for us then :)
<ali1234> i don't know either way if it works or not
<SoulShadow> it doesn't you need SIP or some sort of voip client
<SoulShadow> so, no one seemed able to answer last night, anyone gotten ubuntu to install on a clover trail based tablet?
<SoulShadow> i know intel said clover trail isn't supported but that's never stopped anyone before
<ali1234> popey: has the ui toolkit sdk ppa changed?
<ptl> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2025377 -> it seems Nexus 7 3G has some limitations but these people are saying that in principle it seems possible (voice through 3G)
<SoulShadow> ptl: they have to hack firmware into it
<SoulShadow> lol
<SoulShadow> the RIL isn't there
<SoulShadow> and they're trying to build one
<SoulShadow> and it's XDA
<ali1234> backpedalling :)
<popey> ali1234: changed how?
<SoulShadow> that will not end well
<ali1234> popey: as in the name/url has changed
<popey> we've used a couple. the website links to current
<popey> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<SoulShadow> ali not backpedaling at all
<ali1234> popey: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa - i have sdk installed but i don't seem to have the ppa
<ali1234> so am i on an old version of the sdk?
<popey> possibly, yes
<popey> we had one based on qt5 beta1
<popey> then moved to qt5 proper
<ali1234> that would explain why what i am trying to do is not working lol
<popey> heh
<ubuntubhoy> SoulShadow: apologies - SMS working and calls over voip or SIP.
<SoulShadow> ubuntubhoy you could do SIP/VOIP without doing anything to it
<SoulShadow> well, judging by this you need to change dpi settings but beyond that nothing
<ubuntubhoy> I have a wifi only, but my memory on the Gizmodo article was poor
<ubuntubhoy> not something I want, just thought I had read it
<ali1234> hmm 256mb of updates
<ali1234> when i backup to sd card with carbon, where does the backup go? and how to i get it to pc?
<ptl> <- updating my Nexus7
<ptl> I~ll probably reflash after ubuntu tablet preview is out... anyway...
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234: you should be able to access the folder via a file manager
<ubuntubhoy> then upload to the cloud or try and access it via a PC
<ali1234> i just bought premium
<ubuntubhoy> does it do cloud backup by default ?
<ali1234> yes but you need premium to restore
<ubuntubhoy> ahh - that's a handy way to get you to buy
<ali1234> hmm even carbon cannot backup gta III and bard's tale properly
<ali1234> because they download extra files after install
<ali1234> it thinks those are part of the "data" and back them up
<ali1234> unfortunately they are 2GB each
<ubuntubhoy> they will be a problem
<ubuntubhoy> try and pull them with adb ?
<ali1234> i've backed them up to sdcard with carbon and now pulling them
<ali1234> meanwhile it is also pushing the rest to my google drive
<ali1234> hmmmmmm well i've got QMenuModel now
<ali1234> now i lack Ubuntu Components? i thought that was part of the sdk?
<ali1234> i think my system is now messed up because of the ppa change
<thebishop> have any of the windows8 bybrid devices been unlocked for ubuntu?
<thebishop> it would be awesome to see the ubuntu tablet UI work with even desktops/laptops sporting touchscreens
<thebishop> but something like MS Surface especially seems well-suited to Ubuntu's approach
<ubuntubhoy> I have an old netbook with a touch screen
<ubuntubhoy> I would like to be able to install the UI
<ubuntubhoy> over the desktop OS
<ubuntubhoy> and have it hotswitch
<ubuntubhoy> when I put the netbook in tablet mode
<ptl> thebishop: there's some news of a surface tablet running ubuntu, yeah
<ptl> today
<ubuntubhoy> RT or pro ?
<ptl> http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-the-surface-pro-20130211/
<ptl> pro
<SoulShadow> that sounds like a bad idea
<ubuntubhoy> Ahh, that is standard Ubuntu though is it not
<ubuntubhoy> not the Tablet UI
<ptl> yes... it's x86
<ubuntubhoy> he did ask about the UI
<thebishop> yes indeer
<thebishop> d
<ubuntubhoy> thought someone had taken the XDA leak and already worked their magic
<thebishop> do you think these new laptops with touch screens, but no swivel/yoga/detach feature can be useful?  i've got my eye on the Samsung Series 7 Chronos which has touch in a regular-old-laptop format.  not sure how i'd use it
<ubuntubhoy> Right now it's poor in Linux
<ubuntubhoy> but on Chromium OS and Win8 it works well
<ubuntubhoy> really well
<ubuntubhoy> I expect Linux to change though
<ubuntubhoy> this tablet UI is just the start
<seven> I am undoubtedly not the first persion to ask this but does anyone know the drop time of the ubuntu touch dev release
<tgm4883> no
<tgm4883> later
<tgm4883> when it's ready
<thebishop> seven, Nope, not yet
<seven> Great, thanks
<thebishop> are most of you flashing this to a nexus7, nexus10 or something else?
<ali1234> no
<popey> yes âº
<ali1234> i am attempting to run it in qmlscene on desktop
<ali1234> apparently i need to build QMenuModel as it is binary
<tgm4883> nexus 7, I won't be running this on my nexus 4
<ubuntubhoy> N7 also
<ubuntubhoy> But I will try the phone UI on my One X or HD2 if/when it gets ported
<AaronMT> If anyone knows how to dual boot with Android; drop a link
<r00t4rd3d> AaronMT, MultiROM
<r00t4rd3d> N7 - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2011403
<ubuntubhoy> so are we getting close to F5 bashing time ?
<ali1234> anyone know where android sdk keeps it's version of qemu?
<ali1234> ah it calls it "emulator-arm"
<ptl> thebishop: to a nexus 7 and nexus 4
<ubuntubhoy> hmm, the twitter account and G+ just started posting
<ubuntubhoy> so must be soon-ish
<ubuntubhoy> I am also guessing the image will download via an installer again
<thebishop> nexus7 here.  kinda wish i had an n10 after seeing the first ubuntu tablet video
<ptl> me too
<ptl> I sensed it would be the same when they said the reference would be galaxy nexus
<ptl> it's underpowered
<thebishop> docking to a desktop UI is way more attractive on a 10" screen, and i'm guessing the split screen multitasking is a little cramped on 7"
<ptl> so I waited some time and, voilÃ , they said nexus 4 would also sport the image
<ptl> thebishop: not to count the small memory (1 GB)
<thebishop> between nexus7 and nexus10, is the hardware gap that big?  I remember reading reviews of the N10 that said it only had average power for the price while the N7 was damn impressive for the price
<ptl> no but it has 2 GB RAM
<ptl> <F5> <F5> <F5>
<ptl> where will the tablet / phone download be announced?
<ptl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch ?
<ubuntubhoy> home page
<ubuntubhoy> ?
<ptl> http://www.ubuntu.com ??
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, or the tablet page
<ubuntubhoy> and phone
<ubuntubhoy> or sudo apt-get ubuntu-touch-installer ???
<allu2> I read the ubuntu touch UI images for nexus 7 will be released today, any idea where they can be downloaded when the release happens?
<ubuntubhoy> probably the Ubuntu home page will link to them
<allu2> Ok, am i right if i expect there haven't been any publications on at what time the release happens?
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-tablet to: Welcome to #ubuntu-tablet | http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-tablet | This channel is logged to http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU
<chouchoune> Nexus : Camera, video decoding and audio output do not function. :(
<chouchoune> Nexus 7 ^
<ptl> audio output????
<ptl> but it works currently
<ptl> in Ubuntu for Nexus 7
<ptl> how come it doesn't with the new flash image?
<ubuntubhoy> do we have a link hyet ?
<chouchoune> no idea, that's in the release notes
<chouchoune> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes
<chouchoune> => Device Specific Issues
<chouchoune> Nexus 7
<chouchoune>     Runs in portrait mode by default. (no side stage)
<chouchoune>     Camera, video decoding and audio output do not function.
<chouchoune>     Greeter screen is misaligned.
<chouchoune>     No multi-user login.
<ubuntubhoy> hmm
<ubuntubhoy> no wonder all the vids are N10
<ali1234> i am surprised it supports GSM voice but not mobile data
<ali1234> data is usually MUCH easier to get working
<chouchoune> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<tgm4883> lol    In rare circumstances, the Nexus4 may get into a state where it may not boot at all after the battery is drained ( even into recovery ). If this happens, the only way to restore it is to disassemble the back of the phone and unplug/plug the battery connector.
<ali1234> tgm4883: this is all normal for development releases
<tgm4883> ali1234, so?
<kaleo> nice chouchoune  :)
<doomlord> its out? anyone tried it?
<r00t4rd3d> i tried to install it on my ipad and it gave me crabs.
<ali1234> doomlord: yes its out
<doomlord> (scrolling up, n7 - n10 ... big hardware difference i think; 3D benchmarks in particular are chalk and cheese)
<ali1234> i like how it's a fork of cyanogenmod
<doomlord> ok should i  buy n7 or n10
<doomlord> i have a galaxy nexus
<ali1234> doomlord: there is no point buying a device to run this, it is not usable
<doomlord> heh ok tell it like it is :)
<doomlord> what DOES work
<ali1234> you can make phonecalls
<ali1234> read the release note: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes
<doomlord> does the ubuntu desktop work when 'docked'
<ali1234> no that is a totally different project
<doomlord> i mean that's this things reason for existing really
<ali1234> no, that is a totally different project
<doomlord> the fact its a true desktop underneath
<doomlord> thats the unique feature not present in apple/android
<ali1234> and it's a totally different project
<ali1234> if you want ubuntu for android you have to buy a motorola atrix 2
<doomlord> are you talking about ubuntu-arm instead of ubuntu-tablet
<doomlord> right now i have a galaxy-nexus
<tgm4883> ali1234, I think that was in the announcing video
<kostkon> ali1234, high end ubuntu tablets will support desktop convergence
<doomlord> does the straight ubuntu-arm desktop run on n10 or just n7
<kostkon> doomlord, http://www.iloveubuntu.net/ubuntu-tablets-hardware-requirements-revealed
<doomlord> heh so currently only x86 devices qualify as 'ubuntu enterprise tablet'
<doomlord> and full desktop convergence wont be supported on n10 even
<thebishop> "full desktop convergence: not supported" BOO
<doomlord> yeah thats the reason for this existing
<doomlord> (imo)
<r00t4rd3d> why anyone would remove android for this is beyond me
<thebishop> that's bizarre considering there's already an official nexus7 build of ubuntu which does have the full desktop
<r00t4rd3d> canoncial will never be able to out do google
<r00t4rd3d> never
<doomlord> i would, for full desktop conversion
<r00t4rd3d> ubuntu sucks
<doomlord> i would, for full desktop convergance
<doomlord> ubuntu is awesome
<tgm4883> yea guys, this is terrible. It's almost like this is a developer preview or something
<thebishop> tgm4883, :)
<kostkon> tgm4883, it is
<doomlord> ah sarcasm :)
<tgm4883> kostkon, I think you missed the sarcasm there ;)
<kostkon> :(
<kostkon> damn
<thebishop> tgm4883, this article sounds like the requirements are general, not specific to the developer preview
<doomlord> i wouldn't expect ubuntu desktop on a phone to be as slick as on an i7 pc or anything... but Linux has always excelled at being workable on minimal hardware, eg using alternate lightweight desktop managers
<doomlord> ARM should easily be able to handle a fluxbox environment for example
 * tgm4883 notes the requirments say 2GB ram, yet the nexus 7 has 1GB ram
<thebishop> true
<thebishop> do we know that these requirements aren't just made-up?
<doomlord> thats why i'm salivating at the prospect of 'full' linux on a phone/tablet
<thebishop> doomlord, nexus7 already has a full-blown desktop version of Ubuntu.  it's been available for a few months.  there's even a slick gui installer
<thebishop> unity and all
<tgm4883> thebishop, have you used it?
<thebishop> tgm4883, last time i used it it was pretty sluggish
<doomlord> ok.. maybe i scratch the itch by getting an n7 to run that. but i would also like a n10
<tgm4883> at UDS, it was more of a "wow, that is neat" rather than a "now that is something I can use"
<thebishop> and trying to use touch with the regular desktop is just a non-starter.  but it was workable after i paired my bluetooth keyboard/mouse
<thebishop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation
<tgm4883> doomlord, note that the n10 isn't considered a "high end tablet" by those specs
<fyksen> Anybody done flashing?
<doomlord> yes i note that
<tgm4883> fyksen, I'm backing up my n7 first
<tgm4883> +at work :(
<doomlord> this is for ms surface pro perhaps
<thebishop> tgm4883, yeah that was definitely my experience.  but I think that team was working on improving responsiveness.  i imagine that work went into the image we'll get today
<fyksen> tgm4883, I'm going without backup
<fyksen> The command "quantal-preinstalled-boot-armel+grouper.img: OK
<fyksen> Pushing /home/fyksen/Nedlastinger/phablet-flash/95/quantal-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip to /sdcard/autodeploy.zip
<fyksen> " Takes some time doh :/( :P
<tgm4883> fyksen, well, I'm transfering some of my apps to my nexus4 (thank you carbon), then I can flash :)
<fyksen> Haven't really used my n7 so much, and apps are one play store anyways : )
<popey> my n7 is flashed âº
<fyksen> popey, that was fast
<thebishop> popey, flashed with what?
<ubuntubhoy> still downloading the image
<popey> the image
<doomlord> can an n7  drive external screen (MHL) ... i'm guessing that would be 1280x800 though
<popey> nope
<fyksen> Done flashing! :D Booting up now! Can't wait ;)
<mhall119> 82% ......
<thebishop> doomlord, i think you're miss informed there
<ubuntubhoy> 3 partitions?
<thebishop> doomlord, n7 doesn't have MHL
<ubuntubhoy> pushing now
<doomlord> ok thats why i say "can.."
<thebishop> doomlord, ah yes
<thebishop> whop[s
<thebishop> nope, i haven't found any standard way of outputting n7 video to an external display
<doomlord> a questionmark would have made it clearer i guess
<ptl> it's released
<thebishop> there's a project implementing a streaming technology similar to miracast, but it requires its own rom
<thebishop> maybe somebody would work  on getting that supported in Ubuntu
<doomlord> can you dual-boot ubuntu-arm/android
<doomlord> on  n7
<thebishop> doomlord, i haven't seen any way of doing that.  you definitely can't using the current n7 ubuntu build
<thebishop> it might be technically possible but i've never heard of anyone doing it
<fyksen> http://ubuntuone.com/7HH76AUdI9QUtmUs9i7LOd done! :D
<ubuntubhoy> you can dualboot ubuntu and Android, so no reason why not
<thebishop> ubuntubhoy, partitioning N7's internal storage?  All the dualboot solutions I've heard of use one OS on internal storage and another on MicroSD
<thebishop> fyksen, looking nice where's the download?
<doomlord> does n7 ubuntu pass touch events to applications (i realise few would actually use them)
<mhall119> doomlord: I believe so, yes
<thebishop> ubuntubhoy, you got any details on dual-boot solutions?
<doomlord> i would be interested in reworking desktop apps to be touchfriendly, for my own use..
<thebishop> doomlord, SDK is already available ;)
<thebishop> Quickly
<doomlord> i'd also be curious to see if they already have multitouch tweaks , i heard of 3-finger window drag. how abou 4 fingers for desktop-switching..
<M4rtinK> thebishop: maybe checkout how Cyanogenmod works on the HP Touchpad ?
<M4rtinK> Touchpad has no removable storage & I can boot between Web OS & Android just fine
<mhall119> doomlord: use the Launcher button for workspace switching
<SoulShadow> people use webos?
<M4rtinK> I say "I can", not "I do" :)
<SoulShadow> lol
<doomlord> i think idea of 'more fingers moves more' works well on apple/desktop..  1 finger=cursor, 2 fingers scrolls a window, 3 fingers flips desktops... i think that would extend well..
<mhall119> doomlord: 6 fingers?
<SoulShadow> i don't think that would work very well on a tablet
<ptl> these instructions are for android
<ptl> how do I reflash if I have Ubuntu installed on the tablet?
<doomlord> i suppose a tablet is more often used with thumbs
<mhall119> popey: ^^
<mhall119> any iea
<mhall119> idea
<thebishop> M4rtinK, HP Touchpad has its own bootloader
<thebishop> http://code.google.com/p/moboot/
<popey> just boot into ubuntu and run phablet-flash again
<popey> it will reflash it
 * popey has done this about 6 times today
<mhall119> popey: even if it has the old desktop version on it?
<popey> dunno, try it âº
<chouchoune> kaleo: are you the kaleo I think about ? (Evry stuff) ;)
<mhall119> oh, oh, rebooting!
<chouchoune> ok, got the answer with whois, yes ;)
<doomlord> Does ubuntu-arm on N7 include some sort of Virtual-Mouse for pinpoint accuracy emulating a destkop
<fyksen> Is there any way to close apps? :p
<chouchoune> fyksen: reboot
<chouchoune> ;)
<fyksen> chouchoune, alleready done it a coupple of times :P hehe Very snappy before opening apps :)
<fyksen> Really like the UI : )
<tgm4883> I'm behind :( just now pushing to my nexus 7
<chouchoune> fyksen: N10 ? N7 ?
<ptl> popey: what do you mean? it does not respond to adb
<popey> hmm
<popey> I've not tried it tbh ptl
<ali1234> ptl: if you look at source of phablet-flash you can see what it is doing with fastboot
<ali1234> basically, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/quantal/mwc-demo/
<ali1234> get images for your device
<ali1234> flash them with fastboot
<ptl> ok
<ali1234> ptl: it is structured like an android rom, because it basically is
<ptl> thanks
<ali1234> so you flash recovery, system, user, boot partitions
<ali1234> you might need to do some other bits, so check the source of the tool
<ali1234> i suspect if you have something like clockworkmod installed you can put those zipfiles on sdcard and install them that way
<ptl> I an flashing the Nexus 4
<ptl> I think I will flash the Nexus7 later
<ptl> maybe I will reflash android just to use the friendly interface to flash ubuntu again
<fyksen> chouchoune, n7 :)
<ali1234> so have anyone booted it up yet? does it actually play cyanogenmod boot video?
<tgm4883> ali1234, why would it play cyanogenmod boot video?
<belak> Ah, it's out?
<ali1234> tgm4883: because it's based on cyanogenmod, and the bootvideo is inside the images?
<tgm4883> ali1234, ah
<tgm4883> ali1234, no it doesn't play that video
<tgm4883> at least, I didn't see it on my n7
<ali1234> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/quantal/mwc-demo/quantal-preinstalled-armel+grouper.zip in /system/media/bootanimation.zip to be specific
<kaleo> chouchoune: oui :)
<belak> Are there any mirrors of the demo?
<ali1234> i guess i am the only one pulling the source at this point?
<ali1234> getting 1mbit from git://phablet.ubuntu.com/
<ubuntubhoy> hmm, that's handy
<ubuntubhoy> N7 wont boot and wont let me re-flash
<ubuntubhoy> with the installer
<ubuntubhoy> recovery works
<ubuntubhoy> what partition does phablet get flashed to via fastboot ?
<ubuntubhoy> userdata ?
<rob_w> so do we have a toolchain to build proper kernels and a image ?
<SoulShadow> soooo
<SoulShadow> they're using yaffs2 instead of EXT?
<ali1234> well it's gone very quiet in here
<thebishop> i think this link should go in the topic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<thebishop> contains all the info/links people are looking for
<ali1234> lol the other channel is mental
<ali1234> i prefer it here
<thebishop> ali1234, which channel?
<ali1234> #ubuntu-phone
<ali1234> see what i mean?
<ubuntubhoy> here is better
<ali1234> i tried running it in qemu earlier
<ali1234> didn't work
<ali1234> sig 11 on any graphical app
<ali1234> probably because of crazy android stuff
<ubuntubhoy> I quiet like it
<ubuntubhoy> very unfinished
<ubuntubhoy> but it's nice
<ali1234> is there an apt database inside the image?
<ubuntubhoy> not looked in anything yet
<ubuntubhoy> at work
<ubuntubhoy> so no real time
<ali1234> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ quantal main restricted universe multiverse
<ali1234> appears to be the only repository
<ali1234> btw, is the final release the same as the leaked version from earlier?
<ali1234> hmm i can just check md5sum :)
<ali1234> hah, but no apt inside root filesystem
<ali1234> but we have dpkg
<nexus7user> how do i update nex7? is there an update yet?
<ali1234> nexus7user: try #ubuntu-phone
<doomlord> how is ubuntu-tablet as a *developper environment*
<doomlord> is it enough to use as a target to write tablet apps :)
<doomlord> with native code .. c++... no Java or ObjC in the way..
<ali1234> doomlord: the supported API is QML
<ali1234> you can use C++ if you want
<doomlord> can you use C++, openGL|ES for pure graphical applications (not necaserily platform specific UI) - like one can run on iOS, android-NDK
<ubuntubhoy> as the whole lot is recovery flashable, why bother with the installer ?
<doomlord> anyone posted any videos of their experiences with this yet
<popey> 18:23:19 < ali1234> well it's gone very quiet in here
<popey> everyone is in #ubuntu-phone tbh
<ubuntubhoy> keep em there
<popey> We'll merge the channels over the weekend when it quietens down
<ubuntubhoy> And Paranoid android restored
<ubuntubhoy> I like that I can just restore Ubuntu when I want to try it
<ubuntubhoy> keeps things nice and easy and clean
<belak> So, if it's possible to flash using just a recovery... how can I do that?
<hourd> would it be possible to use something like multirom?
<ptl> anyone had installed on Nexus 7 and tried to get root? I used adb root, then adb shell, then ubuntu_chroot but at the first attempt it fails, in the second attempt it hangs, with the same warning: nount: device or resource busy, then swapon: /data/ubuntu/SWAP.swap: Device or resource busy
<robertjw> i just tried out the touch developer preview on the Nexus 7 and am having trouble with the browser.  Is there a known bug with entry of text in forms, or am I doing something wrong?
<ptl> robertjw: were you able to install openssh?
<ptl> ah... resolved
<doomlord> any developpers previewing it yet?
<ptl> doomlord: ?
<ptl> doomlord: :
<roasted> hello!
<doomlord> just wondered, has anyone downloaded tried it out as a development target :)
<roasted> sending 'system' (92311 KB)...
<roasted> been there for quite a while :/
<robertjw> i have it running on a nexus 7, but I'm still looking for a way to get to a terminal, anyone?
<roasted> I don't have it running so don't hit me if this is a stupid suggestion - can you bring up a keyboard and do CTRL ALT T?
<robertjw> roasted, the keyboard is very basic and does not have a CTRL key
<roasted> the crap, I just got an error when transferring
<roasted> it magically became disconnected from my system during the transfer. adb devices is empty now.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> what codecs does ubuntu tablet plan to have preinstalled
<Akiva-Thinkpad> or containers?
<Akiva-Thinkpad> I am thinking that in development, should I just stick with Vorbis?
<doomlord> hahah thats a good question - does ubuntu tablet have a terminal ?
<roasted> riddle me this. When my Nexus 7 was booted to Android, I could pick it up via adb devices. I was in mid transfer of Ubuntu OS to my Nexus 7 over USB when it became disconnected somehow as it errored out. I ran adb devices, nothing. But of course now I can't get into Android since it's wiped... but when I was in Android is the only time I picked it up in adb...
<k1l_> doomlord: i think it was in the standard apps mentioned
<k1l_> the ones that get codec with the community
<Akiva-Thinkpad> doomlord: As far as I know, they are keeping it
<Akiva-Thinkpad> They would be foolish not to
<Akiva-Thinkpad> all that would do is ostrocise linux users
<doomlord> yes linux & ubuntu should keep a terminal wherever it it
<doomlord> yes linux & ubuntu should keep a terminal wherever it i
<doomlord> is^
<GuidoPallemans> devs,  is there any way to save settings in a qml app?
<M4rtinK> not directly
<M4rtinK> either use a C++ type/plugin
<M4rtinK> or there is some sqlite access directly from QML
<M4rtinK> which is quite ugly IMHO
<GuidoPallemans> there's a plugin from the qtquick side
<GuidoPallemans> but they said that you could upload your app files to ubuntu one
<GuidoPallemans> haven't seen that yet
<k1l_> doomlord: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps?action=show&redirect=UbuntuPhone%2FCoreApps
<k1l_> that are the standard apps that are getting build with the community.
<GuidoPallemans> "with the community" = "with a small part of the community"
<k1l_> "with the community who wants to and is able to"  iirc
<robertjw> ok, terminal is in the list, but I'm not seeing a way to launch it
<k1l_> i dont know if its included yet
<GuidoPallemans> not included
<GuidoPallemans> you might pull it from lp though
<doomlord> would there be another IRC channel to discuss ubuntu-tablet-dev  , or are any of the existing ones fine for that
<k1l_> this is fine
<k1l_> if the breaking news is gone the channels will come back to regular dev work :)
<GuidoPallemans> I hope so... man... I tried to ask a question...
<doomlord> for C++ on ubuntu tablet... what "environment" does it get ... qt application?
<ptl> it's not running X
<ptl> what are you guys using for the graphics?
<doomlord> i'm after raw GL|ES like android-NDK
<robertjw> so, without a terminal how am I supposed to enable sshd?
<GuidoPallemans> have you pulled the lp code yet?
<robertjw> apparently not.  link?
<k1l_> robertjw: posted it 12mins ago
<GuidoPallemans> no that's to the wiki
<k1l_> well, he can hangle through to lp from that link
<robertjw> i'm not understanding what you are saying.  is there a terminal that can be installed?  or is there an alternate way to enable sshd?
<GuidoPallemans> this is everything that they have yet: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-terminal-dev/ubuntu-terminal-app/trunk/view/head:/terminal.qml
<GuidoPallemans> so... nothing, really
<robertjw> aha, the tablet supports adb so you can get to a usb shell with 'adb shell',  that solves my problem
#ubuntu-tablet 2013-02-22
<eduardosanzb> hello
<eduardosanzb> i was installing ubunti on a nexus7, but after pushing all the files and, i guess flash the .img, the tablet never reboots!!
<belak> eduardosanzb: how did you install it?
<eduardosanzb> i follow the steps of the wiki
<eduardosanzb> my n7 was unlocked already
<eduardosanzb> right now is pushing the files
<eduardosanzb> for third time
<eduardosanzb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install?action=show&redirect=TouchInstallProcess
<belak> I had better luck doing it manually...
<eduardosanzb> how do u do that?
<eduardosanzb> install the zip from clockword?'
<eduardosanzb> there are 2 .zip
<eduardosanzb> in the downloads
<Courtenay> anyone tryed multirom yet? i think i need a .img.gz
<belak> You use fastboot to install the boot
<belak> And then flash both the zips
<eduardosanzb> but, never was downloaded the boot
<belak> eduardosanzb: well, that's how I did it
<eduardosanzb> ok
<eduardosanzb> well, i dont know what just happend
<eduardosanzb> lol
<eduardosanzb> but the screen when the .img is installing has an error
<eduardosanzb> the progress bar is super large and has red pixels
<eduardosanzb> =(
<eduardosanzb> i found this
<eduardosanzb> http://liliputing.com/2013/02/how-to-install-ubuntu-touch-on-a-nexus-7-with-windows-mac-or-linux.html
<AlanBell> hi eduardosanzb
<eduardosanzb> hi
<roasted> hello!
<roasted> question - will this dev preview get OTA updates as time goes on?
<roasted> or will we have to manually install/flash/etc to get updates?
<GuidoPallemans> where can I find the source for the ubuntu phone internet application?
<robertjw> apt-get is not in the path, it looks like there are no provisions in this early version for installs or updates
<roasted> so
<roasted> I opened a picture in gallery... and I can't seem to get out of full screen mode of this picture. lol??
<roasted> oh, I see. I can scroll up and bring up a back button.
<eduardosanzb> i did the manual install
<eduardosanzb> but the tablet, never rebots
<eduardosanzb> reboots
<eduardosanzb> im going to do a full wipe
<eduardosanzb> i need to wait too mucho for the first boot?
<GuidoPallemans> what apps have settings?
<robertjw> I should correct a statement I made earlier.  apt-get is in the path after you change context with 'ubuntu_chroot shell'
<robertjw> roasted: so you should be able to do updates from a usb shell
<roasted> oh?
<robertjw> I just tried doing updates and apt-get went through all the right motions, but there were no packages needing update
<roasted> how on earth did you get to apt-get?
<roasted> did you find terminal?
<robertjw> there are two ways
<robertjw> first, the device supports adb
<roasted> are you experiencing any slowness as you load on more apps?
<robertjw> so you can do "adb root; adb shell"  and that will give you a root command prompt on the device
<robertjw> then on that command prompt, do "ubuntu_chroot shell" to get into a context with access to apt-get
<robertjw> the second way, is to use your usb adb connection to install openssh-server and then you can ssh directly through your wifi connection
<robertjw> that's what i'm doing now
<usererror> anyone else getting a blank screen?  tried redownloading and flashing the files again using phablet-flash 3 times now.. just a black screen.. gave it about 35 minutes and so far nothing past black.. am I not giving it long enough or is should I try manually pushing the files?
<usererror> okay I got a loading bar now
<usererror> progress bar* on a gray screen
<usererror> so apparently 4th time is the charm?
<usererror> :) okay well it sorted itself out
<LarrySteeze> hello my friends!
<LarrySteeze> just wanted to check in to see if anyone knew where I could find a list of devs for this project
<ethana3> I just installed Ubuntu Touch Preview on my Nexus 10, how long should I wait for it to boot up?
<ethana3> I waited for what felt like an hour, and it was just a black screen with the backlight on
<ethana3> and then restarted it.. and reflashed it
<ethana3> now it's sitting there black with the backlight on again
<ethana3> #colemak
<ethana3> oops, sorry, forgot the /join
<ethana3> I can't turn it off, no matter what I do it just starts back up, does nothing, and slowly decreases the life of the screen LEDs
<rsalveti> ethana3: can you check the amount of disk space you have at /data?
<rsalveti> you need at least 2gb there
<rsalveti> run adb shell
<ethana3> rsalveti: I thought it wiped everything?
 * ethana3 runs adb shell
<rsalveti> see if you have /data/ubuntu/
<ethana3> k
<rsalveti> ethana3: we're still not formating /data/ by default
<ethana3> can't cd, permission denied
<ethana3> cd /data/ubuntu says no such file or directory
<rsalveti> ethana3: yeah, probably not enough disk space
<ethana3> rsalveti: I backed everything up
<rsalveti> we're working on a fix, but meanwhile just boot to recovery, format /data and flash it again
<ethana3> should I just start deleting videos from my DCIM?
<rsalveti> ethana3: that is also an option, but formating is always the safe choice
<rsalveti> as you got backup going already
<ethana3> ok, I can't boot into recovery with actual options; i'm trying to do this through adb
<ethana3> ok, ran "recovery --wipe_data" in adb shell.
<ethana3> looks like it's doing things.
<ethana3> reflashing
<ethana3> ok, it's going through the flashing process on the tablet again
<doomlord> what do you get access to in c++ on ubuntu-tablet
<ethana3> rsalveti: do you know how long I should wait for it to boot up before I conclude that something failed? Is an hour excessive?
<rsalveti> ethana3: yeah
<rsalveti> it should come up right away
<rsalveti> the black screen usually means it didn't flash the ubuntu file correctly
<ethana3> rsalveti: ....ah. then it failed again
<rsalveti> ethana3: then go to recovery
<rsalveti> ethana3: install zip
<rsalveti> and install the quantal-....ubuntu.zip
<ethana3> I don't think I can get there...
<rsalveti> see if that works
<rsalveti> adb reboot recovery
<ethana3> aahhhhh
<ethana3> it went straight to the open-chassis android with the spinny icosatertradacteron or whatever
<ethana3> and a progress bar
<rsalveti> right, that's probably the autoflash working now
<rsalveti> that should take 1 minute
<ethana3> k
<ethana3> that bar always seems to get to about 80% before it just restarts or whatever it does next
<ethana3> it rebooted O.o
<ethana3> twice
<rsalveti> right
<ethana3> UBUNTU!
<rsalveti> \o/
<ethana3> it looks AMAZING
<ethana3> rsalveti: you have saved my sanity tonight, I haven't been this excited for quite some time
<ethana3> rsalveti: thank you SO MUCH
<rsalveti> :D
<ethana3> I can't wait to show everyone at work :D
<ethana3> hmm, it froze
<rsalveti> I'd suspect that the flash kind of worked
<rsalveti> due the reboots
<ethana3> booting it up again..
<rsalveti> copy quantal-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip to /sdcard/
<rsalveti> then recovery and install that via the zip option
<rsalveti> make sure you don't have /sdcard/autoflash.zip
<ethana3> hmm, i'm at the home screen, it's responsive now
<ethana3> adb shell still works; I guess it's not running on the tablet... or running on a part of the Android kernel that Ubuntu still uses?
<rsalveti> latter
<ethana3> I don't see autoflash.zip in /sdcard
<rsalveti> cool, then the flash procedure was done
<rsalveti> just weird that it rebooted 2 times
<rsalveti> it shouldn't
<rsalveti> in case of big issues and big crashes try flashing just the ubuntu part again
<rsalveti> there's one ui freeze that we know and if you open too many apps the shell will crash
<ethana3> k
<rsalveti> we're working to fix that asap
<ethana3> does wifi work on the Nexus 10?
<rsalveti> yup
<ethana3> AHA, found it
<ethana3> interesting.
<doomlord> ubuntu website says c++/gl is supported .. are there SDK samples for this..'hello triang;e'  in ubuntu-tablet
<rsalveti> time to go, cya
<gurix> hey hey, great work as far as i can see
<ali1234> gurix: everyone is in #ubuntu-phone
<gurix> so phone and tablet is almost the same technicaly speaking?
<Walther> gurix: that is pretty much the reason the repository is called "phablet", no matter how much many people hate that "word"
<ali1234> gurix: they use identical root filesystem
<gurix> sounds logical to me, but i am not an ubuntu coder so i don't know their repositories
<gurix> half a your ago I bought an adroid tablet and after all I am really disappointed
<gurix> so is there any chance to get ubuntu tablet working an older tablet or is the first versions only for dedicated hardware?
<ali1234> unofficial ports are in progress
<ali1234> what tablet do you have?
<gurix> Acer Iconia Tab A510
<k1l> gurix: make sure they meet the minimum requirements
<k1l> gurix: and then you will need someone to port it to your device.
<k1l> (and keep in mind its not a full working OS yet. just in preview state)
<ali1234> gurix: that should be doable
<ali1234> hardware is good enough at least
<ali1234> tegra3 = same as nexus 7
<gurix> is there any documentation how to build and install it?
<ali1234> yes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting
<gurix> oh yeah just found it too. That would help for the moment. Thanks guys
<Walther> Any news on dualboot support?
<ptl> hi
<ptl> what's the URL of the hangout?
<ptl> ubuntuonair.com does not show it
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOvGullZwcw&feature=plcp&newstate=d51b25c17af5ed0dd58f1333b86cfc60
<bcurtiswx> in the tablet edition, what editor can i install to edit system files ?
<genii-around> Heh, Jose Antonio seems to be on every *buntu video
<bcurtiswx> seems the nexus7 can't connect to secure networks, and when i have to login to a non-secure network it only lets me type in 2 characters to the login field before it acts funny
<bcurtiswx> can i launch the browser from shell ?
<doomlord> for C++ applications, what libraries/interfaces are available.. how does your program interact with the rest of the UI
<bcurtiswx> how do you quit an app? seems like i'm just missing something
<mhall119> bcurtiswx: https://plus.google.com/u/0/109919666334513536939/posts/ELTLYHFqNdo
<bcurtiswx> mhall119, weird that icon to close doesn't light up for me..
<bcurtiswx> reboot fixed it
<doomlord> anyone here using c++ to develop for ubuntu-tablet?
<doomlord> ubuntu-arm only runs on N7 ?
<doomlord> i think from what i've seen its ubuntu-arm that interests me more
<doomlord> the desktop
<ali1234> yeah
<doomlord> dual boot that + android would be perfect
<doomlord> rework desktop apps to be more touchfriendly generally
<doomlord> will optimization of browser on ubuntu-tablet feed back into ubuntu-arm-desktop..
<ali1234> i doubt it considering that desktop uses firefox and tablet uses some qt webkit thing :)
<doomlord> so perhaps its possible to get a desktop browser based on the same qt webkit
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> that would likely run faster than firefox today
<doomlord> kde is all qt based right? konqueror
<ali1234> it would also lack most features
<doomlord> oh maybe there isnt much precompiled for arm
<myusdat> Ali1234 :-D
<myusdat> Hi everybody
<oreneeshy> myusdat: conversation is on #ubuntu-phone
<darent> hello
<darent> does somebody know what are the requirements to run ubuntu on a tablet?
<darent> i mean, any dual core tablet will do?
<k1l> no not any
<k1l> darent: http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet/partner
<k1l> and open bootloader and such. today there are only nexus7 and nexus10 officially supported. but the community will port it to other tablets.
<darent> i see... no chance to have it done with any  100â¬ tablet hehe
<k1l> but there is the demo version only, yet.
<darent> also, does it run a whole ubuntu system with debian repositories and all that or is it a different system
<darent> ?
<k1l> its different
<darent> that's kind of dissapointing... at least for me
<darent> but i supose we'll have to wait and see
<k1l> read the ubuntu.com pages i gave you
<darent> ok, thanks k1l
<darent> i got a little confused between the ubuntu tablet, ubuntu phone and the ubuntu for android things xD
<darent> i supose i'll get a new tablet soon, but a cheap one, and install ubuntu in a chroot
<darent> ok, good night people, and thanks
<doomlord> will ubuntu tablet applications run in a window in regular desktop ubuntu (however bad it may be with mouse)
<ali1234> doomlord: maybe, with some hacking
#ubuntu-tablet 2013-02-23
<doomlord> does ubuntu-arm on a N7 have some sort of virtual mouse to make using fiddly desktop UI easier
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> wait
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> you mean the desktop image?
<doomlord> yes
<doomlord> (the port of desktop-ubuntu arm to n7)
<ali1234> well i think you can plug in a usb mouse on that for one thing...
<doomlord> i think what would probably be ideal is if a finger-touch generally registered as placing the cursor & clicking... but also having a virtual mouse you can drag around for pinpoint accurate clicks on fidly desktop elements.
<doomlord> (virtual mouse with virtual mouse buttons .. like a sort of onscrreen puck,to deliver accurate clicks )
<doomlord> yeah of course a USB mouse would be nice
<Goranek> hi guys
<Goranek> will ubuntu for tablets be something like maemo for nokia n900?
<Goranek> i'm thinking on possibility to install linux apps
<pjdamws> So has anyone flashed Ubuntu on their tablet? If so what are your impressions?
<jkobyp> Looking for some opinions - should I expect to get some good programming done on an Ubuntu tablet? Nothing too heavy duty, just undergraduate level computer science.
<GuidoPallemans> jkobyp: what do you mean? just the experience? how good it is for learning to program?
<jkobyp> for programming itself. I've seen some IDE's for Android that looked pretty pathetic. I guess I'm wondering if it would be possible to run something like Eclipse or other existing IDE's, and whether it will have the nuts and bolts necessary to compile java programs. Also, thanks for the response.
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> 1. you will have graduated before a decent ubuntu tablet is released
<ali1234> 2. tablets are poor for development. laptop is better. a desktop is better still.
<jkobyp> Well, that's disheartening. Thought I would have had a good excuse for a new toy. Thanks for the help!
<ali1234> also, nothing in undergraduate CS actually requires the use of an IDE
<ali1234> unless you have a course on "using IDEs" which would be odd for CS
<jkobyp> Well, that's surprising to me, but it would also explain why I haven't been accepted to college yet.
<amigamia> hi all is the tablet version open or closed? is it possible for me to download the os?
#ubuntu-tablet 2013-02-24
<tidux> any chance of a port to the Nook Color, or is it too underpowered?
<tidux> screw it, I'll try it myself
<ethana3> Is it possible to take the files from Ubuntu Desktop for the Nexus 7 and put them on top of the kernel for Ubuntu Touch Preview for the Nexus 10?
<ethana3> I've been running gimp in Ubuntu in a VM on rooted Android for a while, and part of why I wanted Ubuntu to run natively on it was for better performance
<ali1234> ethana3: no absolutely not
<ali1234> touch preview does not support X11
<ethana3> ali1234: ok, thank you
<ethana3> ali1234: are there regular updates being made available for Ubuntu Touch preview yet, or is it going to be just this initial drop and then nightlies and maybe something else in several months and so on?
<ali1234> ethana3: there is an image for nexus 7 that is just straight ubuntu desktop
<ali1234> you can run gimp on that
<ali1234> no need for touch preview
<ali1234> as for updates, we don't know yet
<ethana3> ali1234: Right; I currently only have the Nexus 10; I was going to get a Nexus 4 after I built a new desktop pc
<ethana3> ali1234: ok
<ali1234> oh i see yes
<ali1234> no that won't work, sorry
<ethana3> fair enough, we'll get there-- awesome work so far everyone
<ali1234> touch preview uses android kernel
<ethana3> ...desktop.. doesn't?
<ali1234> desktop uses vanilla linux
<ethana3> whoa..  I'm impressed :D
<ali1234> see, touch preview is this crazy hack... ubuntu runs in a chroot inside minimal android
<ali1234> touch preview UI is Qt5 with surface flinger backend
<ali1234> no X11 at all
<ali1234> the older n7 desktop build is just a standard arm port with normal linux stuff like X11
<ali1234> the binaries would run on N10 if you had a kernel for it
<ali1234> i heard it has same chipset as arm chromebooks so maybe it is doable
<ali1234> but not with touch preview stuff
<ethana3> I heard the ChromeBook Pixel comes with CoreBoot
<ethana3> I must admit, the whole partition scheme and different levels of memory security and things baffle me with mobile devices
<ethana3> I understand desktops and laptops, you've got your master boot record or superior alternative, you've got your file systems, your OSes, your bios/uefi, etc..
<ethana3> on tablets and phones.. I don't really know.. where things are... or what's going on
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> and the thing is every phone is different too
<ali1234> there is no bios on ARM
<ali1234> everyone just does whatever
<ethana3> Aaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh
<ali1234> and since it's all in one chip... no need for autocinfiguration of memory addresses
<ali1234> so the drivers just have to know that $this device is at $that memory address
<ali1234> so what they've done is just paste ubuntu on top of android drivers
<ali1234> this is quite an impressive feat actually, because of the different libc
<ali1234> it's much more interesting for developers than the shiny UI demo they've done, imo
<ethana3> I'm finding that there's a lot of Android apps I kind of miss, so I'd like to install it again.. but before I do that, is there any way you'd recommend to dual-boot?
<ali1234> i would not recommend it
<ali1234> only method i know is for N7
<ali1234> and it looks dodgy
<ali1234> the preview isn't meant to be actually used :)
<ali1234> except as a development platform
<ethana3> is that dodginess an inherent limitation or just the current state of affairs?
<ali1234> a little of both i guess
<ali1234> it's not like you can just partition the device in half
<ethana3> ......oh.
<ali1234> it's already got a million and one partitions
<ethana3> oh?
<ali1234> and things expect them to be in the right place
<ali1234> and every phone has a different partitioning system
<ali1234> my SGS actually uses llvm
<ali1234> crazy
<ethana3> I've never actually seen what the partition tables look like, since I can't exactly run gparted on it
<ali1234> you can adb into device
<ali1234> and poke around
<ali1234> if rooted
<ethana3> that's how I backed mine up
<ali1234> in touch preview or android or even recovery
<ethana3> is it just.. different paths mapped to different partitions?
<ali1234> it's a whole world of crazy like nothing you've seen before
<ethana3> o.O
<ethana3> *whimper* I've gotten that feeling before, but I just figured it was only because I'm not that experienced with it
<ethana3> I think having persistent images that I could store on my laptop or what have you would be almost as good as dual-booting
<ali1234> well they do persist, if you don't delete them
<ali1234> phablet-flash downloads everything to ~/Downloads
<ethana3> I mean like, dropping the whole Android device onto my laptop
<ethana3> and then dropping the Ubuntu device back onto the tablet
<ethana3> and going back and forth that way
<ethana3> all 16GB, each time
<ali1234> oh like nandroid images?
<ethana3> perhaps; I can't say I really understand that either
<ali1234> me either
<rob_w> where do i find informations about those codenames and which unit they are :  maguro,manta,mako,grouper
<AlanBell> good afternoon/morning/evening all
<AlanBell> I hope you are having a phabulous time with your phablets
<AlanBell> As phone and tablets are now all part of the Ubuntu Touch platform we are merging the #ubuntu-phone and #ubuntu-tablet channels into a converged #ubuntu-touch channel
<AlanBell> please hold tight and enjoy the ride, you might automatically end up in #ubuntu-touch, if you don't automatically end up there, please join the #ubuntu-touch channel
