#ayatana 2010-01-18
<mccann> hey tedg around?
<tedg> mccann: Yup.
<tedg> mccann: How are you today?
<mccann> not bad - weather sucks
<mccann> you?
<tedg> Weather is finally getting good again, so I'm thrilled :)
<mccann> it probably isn't sleeting where you are
<tedg> No, I really can't complain.  The worth thing I could complain about is a little windy :)
<mccann> so I'm trying to catch up on all this notification spec stuff on xdg list etc
<mccann> I've seen mentions of 0.10 version of the spec
<mccann> do you have any idea where that is?
<mccann> galago doesn't have it and chip doesn't really know
<tedg> Ah, so libnotify like notification.  Or NotificationItem?
 * tedg loves the naming.
<mccann> um libnotify i guess
<tedg> Hmm, I thought that spec went 1.0
<mccann> for example http://patches.ubuntu.com/libn/libnotify/libnotify_0.4.5-1ubuntu1.patch
<mccann> says 0.10
<mccann> oh is there a 1.0?
<mccann> galago only has 0.9
<tedg> Yeah, hmm, and the notify-osd page links to Galago too.
 * mccann is confused
<tedg> Sorry, I thought there'd be a link on the notify-osd page.  mpt is usually really good about linking all that stuff.
<mccann> well maybe he's having the same problems finding it that I am
<tedg> I think everyone I could ping who would know is either European or off for MLK day :(
<tedg> If I remember right, the only changes in 0.10 were cleanups for things like the mark up.
<tedg> I believe there were some holes in the definition of that where it actually wouldn't work with Pango.
<tedg> I think it also added a different icon data format that the KDE guys were interested in as the current one was basically a GdkPixbuf dump.
<tedg> Err, it seems like this WAS the link: http://people.canonical.com/~agateau/notifications-0.10/spec/
<mccann> gone
<mccann> darn
<tedg> Here, this works: http://people.canonical.com/~agateau/notifications-1.1/spec/
<mccann> oh
<mccann> !
 * tedg had to find that with SSH :(
<mccann> YAY
<mccann> thanks
<tedg> No problem.  Sorry it was so difficult.
<mccann> google did not help at all
<mccann> bad google
<mccann> should have tried bing
<tedg> Heh, it would have just taken you to MSDN as that's what you REALLY want :)
<tedg> mccann: BTW, I think I know what you guys are thinking about doing with the notifications spec in shell with the notification bar.
<tedg> And we looked at that a lot for the messaging menu.  I'm not sure it'll work.
<tedg> Not because of anything spec related, but because of how people are using libnotify.
<mccann> tedg: I'm trying to stay out of the specifics :) 
<mccann> danw has been leading that
<tedg> Heh, I understand.  But the apps issue is really huge.
<mccann> which issue is that?
<tedg> That's why we went ahead and did the libindicate work.
<tedg> The fact that the apps drop the notifications.  They don't track them at all.
<tedg> But then they expect events.  So you'll have to synthesize some of them.
<tedg> I'm not saying it's impossible, but it'll be a PITA.
<mccann> oh i'm certain of that part
<mccann> :)
 * tedg feels for danw
<mccann> for now I'd settle for having one version of the spec
<mccann> and one copy of libnotify
<mccann> right now there are way too many different expectations
<mccann> anyway I'm still trying to get caught up on what's going on
<tedg> Yes, that is true.
<tedg> Anyway.  I think there's only a couple of changes you guys would need in libindicate to make your interaction work.
<tedg> I'd be happy to make those.
<tedg> And someday, I'll try to document things and get it to XDG. :-/
 * tedg needs more time in the day.
<mccann> if you want to join #gnome-shell and talk to danw directly that'd be cool
<mccann> i don't have too much to offer to the conversation yet
<tedg> I'm about to go make dinner here in a few, so I can't talk for too long.
<tedg> So, I'll try to do that tomorrow.
<tedg> I'm guessing he's also off today?
<mccann> i just mean anytime
<mccann> we didn't get the day off today
<mccann> but he usually heads out around now so yeah tomorrow would be fine
<tedg> Really?  That's odd.  I thought MLK day was pretty universal.
<tedg> Must be an East Coast thing.
 * tedg has never lived on the East Coast.
<mccann> some do some don't
<mccann> hey what  type of bots do you guys use here?
<mccann> i'm wondering if i should set one up on gimpnet
<mccann> don't know much about them
<tedg> I have no clue.  I know if I do something like bug 1 I think it picks that up.
<ubot4> tedg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Not reporting large bug)
<tedg> sf 23434
<tedg> Heh, nope :)
<tedg> I think there's a #ubuntu-irc channel, and they manage all the Ubuntu related channel.  They're the IRC jocks :)
<mccann> ah ha
<mccann> google wins this time
<mccann> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<tedg> Wow, crazy.  All kinds of commands.
<tedg> Anyway, heading out.  Have a good evening!
#ayatana 2010-01-19
<magcius> What exactly did Ubuntu patch for freetype2, fontconfig, etc?
#ayatana 2010-01-20
<lamalex> kenvandine: how do i enable the xchat indicator?
<lamalex> kenvandine: got it, that rules that i jumps to the channel!
<lamalex> nice work
<lamalex> hmm can I hide the xchat panel icon?
<magcius> bratsche, good work on the Application Indicators!
<kenvandine> lamalex, you might need to unload that plugin
<kenvandine> lamalex, xchat or xchat-gnome?
#ayatana 2010-01-21
<maxriskfactor> RAOF, any problems with connection?
<vish> djsiegel: hi... reminding you again about >  Bug #388949
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 388949 in hundredpapercuts "'Clean Up by Name' -> 'Arrange by Name'" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388949
<djsiegel> vish: hey let me see
<vish> djsiegel: you just need to send mail to the nautilus mailing list , as per upstream comments
<djsiegel> I think they want a mail to gnome-doc list
<vish> also cc to the docs, for the string change
<vish> djsiegel: also , maxriskfactor has been doing some work on papercuts.. you can steer him as well ;)
<djsiegel> vish: what has be been up to?
<vish> djsiegel: he has submitted patches on a few bugs.. 
<maxriskfactor> djsiegel, one of them is opening of the gnome-appearance opening up when you set a wallpaper
<vish> djsiegel: ex: Bug 383404
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 383404 in network-manager "networkmanager passive notification wording needs to be changed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/383404
<vish> maxriskfactor: what was the other one? 
<maxriskfactor> djsiegel, another is this https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/503061
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 503061 in hundredpapercuts ""Change desktop background" dialog shows up when using "Set as desktop wallpaper" option in image viewer" [Low,Triaged]
<maxriskfactor> vish, djsiegel these are those two on which I worked properly...
<maxriskfactor> and the gnome-appearance once, I tried and tested it properly
<vish> maxriskfactor: the EOG change just removing the function is not very ideal
<maxriskfactor> vish,  I know, it was just as required by the papercut :)
<maxriskfactor> vish: secondly, I told you why it doesnt matter much. You can't revert back to the old wallpaper so easily
<vish> maxriskfactor: there was another bug , with a string change [iirc it needs a bit of change too]
<maxriskfactor> lemme check
<djsiegel> vish: ok, sent
<vish> djsiegel: phew... finally ;) thanks
<maxriskfactor> vish, djsiegel: this one  is the third https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-session/+bug/495127
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 495127 in hundredpapercuts "Shutdown/restart dialogs is unlcear about whether people should wait" [High,Triaged]
<vish> maxriskfactor: ah , right , that one also needs to be changed as per the wiki link... beuno  , right?
<beuno> vish, yes, that's right
<maxriskfactor> vish, I changed it as per the wiki link IIRC
<vish> hmm , lemme check again
<vish> beuno: if wording is ok , can you subscribe the sponsors ?
<vish> or is it hosted in bzr? wouldnt a merge be better?
<beuno> tedg, could you look at the patch?
<beuno> vish, I think you can do a proposal against hte package
<beuno> but tedg is the upstream for that AFAIK
<vish> yeah
 * tedg is looking
 * vish wonders when tedg will show love for inkscape ;)
<maxriskfactor> vish, I am working on other code, just ping me if I am needed :)
<tedg> I don't think that we should have a string with two carriage returns it.  They should really be separate text boxes.
<tedg> Primary text and secondary text.
<vish> maxriskfactor: ^^
<maxriskfactor> vish, Fine.
<maxriskfactor> tedg, you mean the summary and body section as per the manual? http://library.gnome.org/devel/libnotify/0.4/NotifyNotification.html#notify-notification-new
<tedg> maxriskfactor: No, more like: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkMessageDialog.html
<vish> tedg: the indicator application icons... do they have a name yet?
<maxriskfactor> tedg, ahh. Sorry I pointed to the wrong place
<tedg> vish: I don't know, that seems like a good name for them to me :)
<vish> ;)
<maxriskfactor> tedg, I am back to work on it. Thanks for the feedback :)
#ayatana 2010-01-22
<vish> ScottK: could you have a look at Bug 431900 ?
<ubot4> Launchpad bug 431900 in kdebase-runtime "Khelpcenter4 comes with outdated documentation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431900
<ScottK> It's known and being worked on.  It's not a papercut
<vish> thanks..
<vish> ScottK: could you comment that on the bug ?   :)
<ScottK> Busy with $WORK.  Feel free to copy/paste what I said here.
<vish> ScottK: k..
#ayatana 2010-01-23
 * hyperair kicks notify-osd
<hyperair> stop leaking my memory damnit >_>
<djsiegel> MDC1: ping
<MDC1> djsiegel, pong
<djsiegel> MDC1: hey I was wondering if you could walk me through patching gedit
<djsiegel> I imagine there's a process that goes like this:
<MDC1> i could give it a try, sure :)
<djsiegel> 1. apt-get source gedit
<djsiegel> 2. build it
<djsiegel> 3. edit some source files
<djsiegel> 4. build and run to see if change is correct
<djsiegel> 5. if correct, generate patch and post to bug report
<MDC1> 1. get source, 2. edit, 3. build
<djsiegel> but I am not sure which incantations to use
<djsiegel> ah, so you are going directly to upstream source?
<djsiegel> I was hoping to patch against what I get with apt
<MDC1> depends on the problem
<djsiegel> uh oh
<djsiegel> great
<djsiegel> gtg
<djsiegel> sorry
<MDC1> haha
<MDC1> np
<djsiegel> another time
<MDC1> cu
#ayatana 2010-01-24
<seiflotfy> kenvandine, there
#ayatana 2011-01-17
<christhecoolboy> hello all :)
<christhecoolboy> any unity Devs here? :)
<Kaleo> christhecoolboy: it's too early for them (mostly in UK/US)
<christhecoolboy> I am in the UK?
<christhecoolboy> lol
<christhecoolboy> its 6:38AM
<kvalo> morning
<christhecoolboy> thanks :)
<christhecoolboy> any idea what time the rest will be on
<christhecoolboy> I have an idea
<christhecoolboy> about unity
<Kaleo> christhecoolboy: probably in around 2-3 hours
<christhecoolboy> ok...
<christhecoolboy> do you wanna hear my idea? :)
<christhecoolboy> also,I'm pretty new to ubuntu...
<Kaleo> christhecoolboy: I have to go to bed :)
<christhecoolboy> ok, night :)
<Kaleo> christhecoolboy: thank you
<Kaleo> christhecoolboy: have a nice day
<christhecoolboy> thanks...
<christhecoolboy> you too...
<christhecoolboy> I mean... tomorrow, :D
<kvalo> hmm, I can't install unity in natty because of some nux dependency problem...
<coz_> kvalo,   I thought  unity was already installed onto natty
<kvalo> coz_: I had to uninstall it last week because I was testing something
<kvalo> I guess have to wait for didrocks
<coz_> oh ok
<christhecoolboy> hey all :)
<christhecoolboy> any1 here now?
<christhecoolboy> anyone here? :)
<christhecoolboy> I wanna talk about unity stuff
<christhecoolboy> and nobody is here 2 talk
<njpatel> christhecoolboy, hey, many people are off today as we're all returning from a conference. What's up?
<christhecoolboy> I had an idea about unity
<christhecoolboy> some big project
<christhecoolboy> I wanted to talk to people
<njpatel> cool, design-wise or code-wise?
<christhecoolboy> not sure lol
<christhecoolboy> I'm pretty new
<christhecoolboy> I wanted to talk to some devs
<christhecoolboy> and get their input
<christhecoolboy> and possible help
<christhecoolboy> lol
<njpatel> christhecoolboy, you can start with me, I'm the technical lead for Unity....I'll know who to refer you to ;)
<christhecoolboy> ok... well, I have an idea for a peice of software that would come as part of ubuntu or as an update and uses unity as part of it
<christhecoolboy> it would use unity as part of it, but it would be customized to work with that program...
<christhecoolboy> Whatever you need to know... Ask...
<christhecoolboy> I'm pretty new...
<christhecoolboy> but I should be able to tell you enough
<njpatel> Okay, so what is the idea?
<christhecoolboy> something like XBOX 360 OS but for ubuntu, called "Ubuntu Games Center"
<christhecoolboy> a gaming platform that uses unity
<njpatel> where would it use Unity?
<christhecoolboy> have u ever used xbox 360?
<njpatel> yep
<njpatel> you mean as a launcher for the games?
<christhecoolboy> not just for games
<christhecoolboy> for "acchievements" as well
<christhecoolboy> ^bad speller! :D
<christhecoolboy> http://news.cnet.com/i/bto/20081117/dash1_610x411.jpg
<christhecoolboy> ^that
<christhecoolboy> but using unity
<njpatel> yeah, i get what you mean
<christhecoolboy> ubuntu needs its own gaming platform
<njpatel> it would be interesting, but it's a massive project...I mean we don't even have a proper application SDK yet
<christhecoolboy> yeah
<njpatel> I think Ubuntu Platform, specifically #ubuntu-desktop would be the place to start discussion, tb
<njpatel> tbh*
<christhecoolboy> what would I ask lol?
<njpatel> mainly because they control what goes into ubuntu
<christhecoolboy> what would I say?
<njpatel> christhecoolboy, it might actually make more sense to email ubuntu-devel list, so people can think and respond
<njpatel> well, just say your idea :)
<christhecoolboy> said that! :D
<njpatel> yeah, but on the email so everyone can see :)
<christhecoolboy> what is the email?
<njpatel> the email you'll send to the mailing list
<christhecoolboy> what mailing list?
<christhecoolboy> I am new here, :D
<njpatel> christhecoolboy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#Communication
<christhecoolboy> ok
<christhecoolboy> rodrigo_, where is the email, I cant see one?
<rodrigo_> christhecoolboy, what email?
<didrocks> good morning
<christhecoolboy> "njpatel> the email you'll send to the mailing list"
<christhecoolboy> ^that one
<christhecoolboy> rodrigo_,
<rodrigo_> christhecoolboy, you need to send a mail to ubuntu-devel-discuss@?
<christhecoolboy> I wanna send an email about my idea
<christhecoolboy> rodrigo_, @ what.what?
<rodrigo_> christhecoolboy, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
<rodrigo_> ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<christhecoolboy> did u see my idea about unity?
<kvalo> didrocks: good morning
<kvalo> didrocks: I can't install unity in natty. I think unity requires older libnux than what I have. a known issue?
<didrocks> hey kvalo, had a nice trip back?
<didrocks> kvalo: how? and it doesn't propose to you installing the new nux?
<didrocks> can you apt-get install unity and pastebin the output there?
<kvalo> didrocks: thanks, had a good trip. I got three seats when going over atlantic and didn't miss any plains :) what about you?
<kvalo> didrocks: I'll get you the output soon, it's on my other machine
<didrocks> kvalo: my neighbours were moving a lot, so I couldn't manage to get a lot of sleep, unfortunatlyâ¦
<kvalo> didrocks: oh, sorry to hear that :(
<kvalo> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/555023/
<kvalo> didrocks: just realised, it could be that fi mirror is out of sync again. I'll try another mirror
<didrocks> kvalo: seems that unity is out of sync in your mirror
<didrocks> and bamf as well
<kvalo> didrocks: yeah, switched to the main server and got lots of new updates. sorry for the noise again! :)
<didrocks> kvalo: no worry :)
<kvalo> this is the second time I have had this with the .fi mirrors. I should finally learn not to use it
<didrocks> kvalo: for unstable, I keep the main archives, most of the timeâ¦
<didrocks> kvalo: keep me updated if you still can't install it
<kvalo> didrocks: from now on I'll also use the main server with unstable releases
<didrocks> kvalo: sounds the best option :)
<christhecoolboy> I'm not sure what to do about my big idea ;(
<didrocks> christhecoolboy: today isn't the best day to get answers. People are recovering after a platform rally in Dallas,  just wait for a couple of days
<christhecoolboy> didrocks, I cant really wait a couple days... :(
<didrocks> why?
<christhecoolboy> cause I'm trying to get it ready
<christhecoolboy> for 11.04
<christhecoolboy> and if I wait too late
<christhecoolboy> it wont get in, (:
<didrocks> well, 2 days will make such a huge difference?
<christhecoolboy> it's gonna take ages to code
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: also 11.04 is not really a possibility for adding a whole new app, decisions need to be made much in advance
<christhecoolboy> how far in advance?
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: atleast have some working code 6months before proposing to ship in a release..
<christhecoolboy> someone told me that if I started late jan / early feb, I could get it in to 11.04
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: this is the release schedule> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<christhecoolboy> so could I get it in 11.10?
<evilvish> sure
<christhecoolboy> its a big app
<christhecoolboy> did u see my idea?
<evilvish>  christhecoolboy: feb24 is feature freeze for Natty , and starting something new and getting it completed by feb24 is not easy..
<didrocks> christhecoolboy: correction, late jan/early feb will enable you to get in universe, but not as default
<didrocks> we discuss the defaults at UDS, with the whole community
<christhecoolboy> evilvish, you said six months?
<didrocks> and don't do big changes on what is scheduled without the community
<christhecoolboy> wouldnt that be wouldnt that be the 4th month?
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: yup.. 6months prior to a release is when a UDS takes place :)
<christhecoolboy> I just dont wanna put it in too late
<christhecoolboy> so that the competition puts their big thing up
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: and if an app needs to be included in the default install it needs to be open source
<christhecoolboy> it would be
<kvalo> didrocks: thanks, unity works now.
<kvalo> didrocks: but I can't install the two unity-place* packages
<christhecoolboy> I'm just saying that I want to make something before someone else does
<christhecoolboy> I have an awesome idea
<kvalo> didrocks: but I don't need them for anything right now, so I just ignore them :)
<didrocks> kvalo: yeah, the protocole changed and the places aren't working yet
<didrocks> christhecoolboy: do you have an email on a mailing list you put it?
<christhecoolboy> no
<christhecoolboy> I dont know how
<christhecoolboy> I'm new here
<christhecoolboy> to the dev side
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: right.. like what njpatel already mentioned , your first step would be to it send an email to ubuntu-devel list, so people can think and respond
<christhecoolboy> what email would I use
<christhecoolboy> is there a specific email?
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
<christhecoolboy> what should the title be
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: its your idea.. sell it! :d
<christhecoolboy> the only problem is that I cant code :(
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: right, then you can post you ideas on ubuntu brainstorm, it some developer likes it they can implement it
<evilvish> if* some
<christhecoolboy> but then...
<christhecoolboy> they wont use my plans
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: alternatively,you can learn to code it yourself ;)
<christhecoolboy> If I was to even try, I'd need a team lol
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: haha! you are trying to hijack the Unity team?  i dont think they come cheap.. they get paid top dollar ;)
<christhecoolboy> I'm not trying to hijack the team lol
<multiplatinum> when you guys decided to ditch the systray cuz of its inconvenience u developed the appindicators, but now all apps are creating an appindicator, i thought it was the goal to get rid of all the icons? or did i misinterpret it and did you guys aim for just a consistent behavior, regardless of the number of icons?
<christhecoolboy> evilvish, I'd like to get a few unity developers to help
<christhecoolboy> cause this app really could push ubuntu towads a new market
<didrocks> christhecoolboy: again, you have to post on a mailing list to share as well with people not online
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: well, if you are serious about using their skills, then you'd need to hire them.. you can talk to Mark and say you'd like to pay for the developer's time they spend on your idea.. anyway thats a discussion you need to do with Mark.. or post on the ML
<multiplatinum> when you guys decided to ditch the systray cuz of its inconvenience u developed the appindicators, but now all apps are creating an appindicator, i thought it was the goal to get rid of all the icons? or did i misinterpret it and did you guys aim for just a consistent behavior, regardless of the number of icons?
<christhecoolboy> argh, this is going nowhere... :(
<christhecoolboy> evilvish, how much would that cost?
<christhecoolboy> just guessing
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: as cjwatson mentioned on the other channel, learning a bit of code is the first step.
<christhecoolboy> but what lang?
<christhecoolboy> what lang do I code something that uses unity
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: what grade are you in right now?
<christhecoolboy> i'm 16
<christhecoolboy> i'm british
<christhecoolboy> year 11
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/#coding
<\sh> didrocks: good that you are here...when I use xev to check keyboard events and keycodes, is it ok, that my "Super_L" key is not "Super_L" anymore inside unity?
<christhecoolboy> evilvish, but what lang?
<christhecoolboy> looking at that
<christhecoolboy> it doesnt say
<christhecoolboy> what lanf
<christhecoolboy> *lang
<evilvish> christhecoolboy: click the link in : Unity Code Style Guidelines.
<christhecoolboy> i mean...
<christhecoolboy> what program
<christhecoolboy> to write the code
<christhecoolboy> and test / recompile / rebuild
 * evilvish gtg now.. ttyl..
<torkvemada> christhecoolboy: have you read the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/CodingStyle link?
<torkvemada> You can find C, C++ and Vala there, aren't you?
<christhecoolboy> yeah
<christhecoolboy> but I'm new to this
<christhecoolboy> coding
<christhecoolboy> and ubuntu dev
<torkvemada> so describe your question in more understandable way :)
<torkvemada> can't really realize what d'ya want
<christhecoolboy> how do I code stuff to work on ubuntu and how do I compile/use the unity code?
<torkvemada> hm
<torkvemada> have you written code ever?
<torkvemada> and what sort of code?
<christhecoolboy> torkvemada, dont laugh, I've only coded in AGS and QBASIC
<didrocks> \sh: It's still Super_L there, do you see a similar issue with other compiz accelerators? Like Alt + Key for instance?
<torkvemada> ough, QBasic, I haven't seen it for ~10 years
<christhecoolboy> lol
<christhecoolboy> i'm a retro person
<torkvemada> so I can suggest you some different ways
<torkvemada> 1. old-school and dangerous: you can start coding in C or C++. Hard to learn, can cut your leg off, but you can become the God in future
<torkvemada> 2. C++/Qt or Vala: first is the pretty C++ with very nice framework, you'll have nice cross-platform GUI, nice documentation and many other things. Latter is the pretty C++-like language useful to write GTK-applications. I know nothing more about it, but it looks rather pretty :)
<christhecoolboy> ok
<\sh> didrocks: I'll test...
<torkvemada> 3. Python: easy, very easy to start, can do many things, very popular among young developers and have fine tutorials. But you'll produce inefficient and slow applications :)
<hyperair> sometimes it's not about speed
<hyperair> it's about memory consumption
<hyperair> and python sucks with that
<christhecoolboy> what do you think would be the best, torkvemada
<torkvemada> hyperair: have you ever started ubuntu and something pythonic on intel atom netbooks?)
<hyperair> torkvemada: nope.
<torkvemada> hyperair: it's sloooooow
<hyperair> torkvemada: however, i've started many pythonic things on my intel core 2 duo laptop that used to have 2G of RAM.
<hyperair> it ate memory. =p
<hyperair> ibus is a classic case
<hyperair> but the major consumers of memory were firefox, thunderbird, and the indicators which have memory leaks in lucid and maverick
<christhecoolboy> a gaming platform called "Ubuntu Games Center" that uses unity to create a XBOX 360 style looks and allows for achievements, leaderboards and people to create their own games
<christhecoolboy> ^thats what I wanna make
<torkvemada> chrisccoulson: from my point of view, python sucks. But I'm the developer coding highload projects, I hate python. Neither I love GTK (I prefer Qt) so if you want my opinion, start with C++/Qt
<didrocks> torkvemada: you meant christhecoolboy ? :)
<torkvemada> or start with python/Qt and then migrate to C++/Qt
<torkvemada> oh, yes
<torkvemada> sorry
<\sh_> didrocks, Super_L in xev gives me under unity: FocusOut event, serial 36, synthetic NO, window 0x3c00001,
<\sh_>     mode NotifyGrab, detail NotifyAncestor
<didrocks> \sh_: ok, I assume you have the latest release, isn't it?
<christhecoolboy> brb
<\sh_> 3.2.12-0ubuntu2
<didrocks> \sh_: can you assign the "show the launcher" key to something else in ccsm and try xev again?
<\sh_> didrocks, I mean...when the launcher panel to the left disappers super_l brings it back..
<\sh_> didrocks, ccsm?
<didrocks> \sh_: I know, it's me adding that :)
<didrocks> \sh_: compizconfig-settings-manager
<didrocks> it's in universe
<\sh_> one moment..installing ;)
<didrocks> you will see the "unity" plugin
<didrocks> and can change that option to something else
<didrocks> but that shouldn't change your xev key
<\sh_> inside ubuntu unity plugin?
<didrocks> right
<\sh_> didrocks, ok...I switched it to Shift+l and shift alone gives the corect keysym , but shift +l gives me:  FocusOut event, serial 36, synthetic NO, window 0x3e00001,
<\sh_>     mode NotifyGrab, detail NotifyAncestor
<christhecoolboy> torkvemada,  whats a good program on ubuntu for c++
<torkvemada> for development?
<christhecoolboy> for development, complining and testing
<torkvemada> many people prefer: QtCreator, Eclipse, Netbeans, vim, emacs and some others
<torkvemada> i prefer vim but you'd better to use QtCreator :)
<christhecoolboy> ok
<torkvemada> it rather pretty and useful not only for qt
<didrocks> \sh_: seems to be related to compiz. Can you ping smspillaz (he's in australia timezone) to get more info on that?
<christhecoolboy> is that "sudo apt-get install qt
<christhecoolboy> or
<christhecoolboy> is that "sudo apt-get install qtcreator"
<torkvemada> latter
<christhecoolboy> ok
<christhecoolboy> downloading
<christhecoolboy> :(
<christhecoolboy> *:)
<\sh_> didrocks, should I file a bug report? just to be sure...i don't know if I'm still awake when australia wakes up :)
<didrocks> \sh_: I would prefer you to first discuss with him. I'm not sure what should happen when the window manager interrupts key TBH :)
<didrocks> \sh_: I guess there are good reason for it to alter the keycode
 * torkvemada will try to reboot... damn .37 kernel with broken radeon and uvesafb
<didrocks> so discussing with him will shed some lights on that
<\sh_> ok..I'll try to catch him
<christhecoolboy> whats the closest thing to imovie on ubuntu?
<christhecoolboy> downloaded
<chrisccoulson> torkvemada, was that directed at me?
<multiplatinum> when will the appmenu be good?
<torkvemada> chrisccoulson: no, that was mistake
<torkvemada> chrisccoulson: i've chosen wrong nickname completion :)
<\sh> didrocks: after coming back from screensaver (blank screen) somehow my mouse is not working anymore (mouse == touchpad on lenovo thinkpad)..
<didrocks> \sh: try killall gnome-panel in a tty
<didrocks> oupss
<didrocks> \sh: killall gnome-screensaver
<\sh> didrocks: oh well..nvidia here...so my tty after alt-ctrl-f1 is not usable
<didrocks> \sh: it is for me with GFX_PAYLOAD_blabla set manually
<\sh> ah
<didrocks> ssh to it then
<\sh> the screensaver password dialog is not displayed correctly...entereing my password helped
<didrocks> but the wrong stacking order is probably guilty
<didrocks> yeah, that was what I was thinking of :)
<\sh> so...unity is still viewd even when screensaver kicks in
<didrocks> yeah, the compiz stacking order isn't right
<didrocks> already under work :)
<\sh> didrocks: you rock :)
<didrocks> \sh: hehe, thanks :)
<\sh> ah and now the panel is gone
<didrocks> nvidiaâ¦ :)
<didrocks> you have a lot of noise on it, isn't it?
<\sh> no...that I had when I came back from suspend ;)
<\sh> now I just have no panel...when I move to the top I can see something like the app menu from gnome-terminal ;)
<didrocks> \sh: oh, that's weird, even if you restart unity with launching unity?
<joaopinto> multiplatinum, if I understood it correctly one of the main goasl of using appindicators vs systray was to group controls from similar apps into single action menus
<\sh> didrocks: you mean typing "unity" in terminal? when I start it again, from cli, panel comes back
<didrocks> \sh: ok, then please file a bug with detailed reproduceable steps against unity
<didrocks> \sh: can be related to another one with appmenu not being always in synced with focus app
<\sh> didrocks: I'll try to reproduce first :)
<ogra> didrocks, my arm image builds fail due to libindicator1 which is a rdepends of libunity0 which in turn is an rdep of unity-place-* on which unity depends ...
<ogra> can we drop that dep from unity somehow until the unity-place-* stuff is solved ?
<didrocks> ogra: are you sure? I saw a rebuild of unity by Riddel to dep on libindicator2, isn't it the case?
<ogra> unity still depends on unity-place-files/applications
<didrocks> ogra: it doesn't. it's a recommends
<ogra> and as i understand that wont be updated until a new design exists
<didrocks> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/62258100/unity_3.2.12-0ubuntu1_3.2.12-0ubuntu2.diff.gz
<christhecoolboy> I have an idea for a new site for ubuntu
<ogra> well, our image builders dont make any difference between recommends/dep
<christhecoolboy> who would I talk to?
<didrocks> ogra: I can remove that for now, yes, but it's unity recommending it, not the places AFAIK
<didrocks> ogra: so it shouldn't be an issue for unity-qt, isn't it?
<ogra> its an issue for unity-2d too
<ogra> (note we dont call it -qt anymore)
<ogra> but thats not on the images yet
<didrocks> ogra: I don't understand, what's the issue exactly? that the places are pulled in?
<ogra> currently i only care for the image builds
<ogra> right
<didrocks> ogra: do you install unity in it or only unity-2d?
<ogra> and the places depends on the missing lib
<ogra> unity-2d is in universe
<ogra> we dont use it yet
<didrocks> ok, so the recommends is breaking the arm image
<didrocks> ok, will remove the recommends for now
<ogra> ignore unity-2d for now, i'm only talking about our failing image builds
<ogra> thanks
<ogra> root@ac100:/# apt-cache depends unity-place-applications|grep libunity
<ogra>   Depends: libunity0
<ogra> ...
<christhecoolboy> didrocks, who would I speak to?
<ogra> root@ac100:/# apt-cache rdepends unity-place-applications|grep unity
<ogra> unity-place-applications
<ogra>   unity
<ogra> christhecoolboy, file a whishlist bug on the "website" component in launchpad
<christhecoolboy> but I wanna open the site
<christhecoolboy> if it is gonna happen
<didrocks> ogra: that's because libindicator2 conflicts against libindicator1, isn't it?
<ogra> yep
<didrocks> ogra: ok, thanks, doing it now :)
<ogra> thanks, i will do the same for unity-2d once i have talked to Kaleo about it
<didrocks> ogra: then, we should be good to remove libunity0 from the archive btw
<ogra> great
<didrocks> christhecoolboy: all central discussion should came in ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
<christhecoolboy> what?
<didrocks> christhecoolboy: it's an answer to 14:19:00 christhecoolboy | didrocks, who would I speak to?
<christhecoolboy> oh...
<christhecoolboy> I want to make this site
<christhecoolboy> that uses QSDA
<didrocks> so, just make it :)
<christhecoolboy> *QSQA
<christhecoolboy> but I want support
<christhecoolboy> from ubuntu
<didrocks> you mean, support as "development support" ?
<didrocks> or infrastructure?
<christhecoolboy> no
<christhecoolboy> I want them to host the site
<didrocks> so infrastructure
<christhecoolboy> yeah
<didrocks> open the discussion on the mailing list
<christhecoolboy> ok
<ogra> i think that already exists on http://stackoverflow.com/
<christhecoolboy> I want something that is ubuntu supported
<ogra> http://askubuntu.com/
<christhecoolboy> so people can help each other
<christhecoolboy> with problems...
<christhecoolboy> and it could be upgraded
<ogra> see the latter page
<ogra> it is a frontend to stackoverflow
<ogra> supported by ubuntu
<christhecoolboy> you dont understand
<ogra> what you want already exists on http://askubuntu.com/
<ogra> and that page uses http://stackoverflow.com/ as a backend
<christhecoolboy> I get an idea
<ogra> which is the same as OSQA
<christhecoolboy> and I cant use it to my own extent
<christhecoolboy> I wanted to do something
<christhecoolboy> to put my mark on ubuntu
<ogra> you said you wanted something like OSQA with ubuntu branding, which is exactly what http://askubuntu.com/ already provides
<\sh> didrocks: I can't reproduce it right now...somehow screensaver is now behind unity...and after entering password, everything looks normal
<christhecoolboy> orga, I want an idea that can help me get my postition
<akshatj> Unity 2D is awesome!
<christhecoolboy> but now, that Idea I thought I could use, I cant
<ogra> akshatj, send flowers to Kaleo ;)
<didrocks> \sh: yeah, it seems quite not reproduceable everytime. the stacking issue will be fixed soon, not sure about the second issue in the panel howeverâ¦
<akshatj> ogra: works perfectly but still a little slow due to bad drivers
<ogra> i dont see slowness on my arm netbook (using framebuffer drivers only)
<didrocks> akshatj: the drivers aren't the issue in unity-2d, it's more due to the CPU
<didrocks> as all is CPU-based instead of GPU with opengl
<ogra> akshatj, what kind of system is that ?
<christhecoolboy> what web based things could I do / make for ubuntu to help get my position / make my mark?
<akshatj> ogra: Pentium 4 1.7 Ghz
<ogra> and *thats* slow ?!?
<ogra> wow
<akshatj> the 1845 drivers are bad
<akshatj> *i845
<akshatj> and they crash X randomly :(
<ogra> i see unity-2d fly on an 800MHz 512MB arm netbook with xfbdev driver
<akshatj> I am using the intel driver
<christhecoolboy> does ubuntu.com have a sitemap?
<christhecoolboy> so I can see what it has / doesnt have
<ogra> akshatj, you should probably try to enfoce xfbdev
<ogra> if the i810 driver is really an issue ...
 * ogra hugs didrocks .... thanks for the quick fix 
<christhecoolboy> I need to think of things I can do
<christhecoolboy> to help ubuntu
 * didrocks hugs ogra back, thanks for the notice!
<christhecoolboy> without coding
<christhecoolboy> online
<akshatj> christhecoolboy: um, you can help people in #ubuntu
<ogra> christhecoolboy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<christhecoolboy> akshatj, I wanna make my mark
<christhecoolboy> show my position
<ogra> there are a ton of suggestions
<christhecoolboy> lol
<christhecoolboy> what is #ubuntu-women?
<akshatj> christhecoolboy: channel for women involved in Ubuntu
<christhecoolboy> so should I mentor some of them?
<akshatj> ogra: don't worry, my new hardware arrives on this wednesday :D
<akshatj> with a quad core i7, I should be flying
<joaopinto> chrisccoulson, about your idea, there is already a similia idea in place for desktop achievements, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/bringing-fun-back-to-the-desktop-with-omg-the-app/
<joaopinto> ops, was for christhecoolboy
<chrisccoulson> -ETOOMANYPEOPLECALLEDCHRIS
<christhecoolboy> joaopinto, that isnt the same as my idea
<christhecoolboy> my idea was to use unity
<christhecoolboy> for full screen
<joaopinto> chrisccoulson, "unity" is not something you use for application development
<joaopinto> grrr
<joaopinto> christhecoolboy,
<akshatj> joaopinto: its renamed to 'Cheers' now
<christhecoolboy> joaopinto, call nme
<christhecoolboy> CTCB
<christhecoolboy> *me
<christhecoolboy> what would I do on #ubuntu-women?
<christhecoolboy> would I mentor?
<christhecoolboy> how would I do that :)
<akshatj> christhecoolboy: well, you help report bugs in 11.04, that would be enough for making your mark
<akshatj> +can
<christhecoolboy> so what would I do if I went on #ubuntu-women?
<christhecoolboy> I read about males tutoring women on ubuntu?
<akshatj> dunno
<christhecoolboy> If you are a woman wanting to get involved in the Ubuntu community, or if you're a man interested in increasing the diversity of the Ubuntu community, you can join the Ubuntu-Women team
<christhecoolboy> ^thats what it says
<akshatj> christhecoolboy: well, ask the people there
<christhecoolboy> ok
<christhecoolboy> :)
<Kaleo> hi guys
<akshatj> hi Kaleo
<tedg> kenvandine, Things in general seem pretty good to me... are you seeing any bugs that look critical on your side?
<tedg> kenvandine, Things not going away seems like the biggest.
<Kaleo> akshatj: thanks for the good feedback :)
<akshatj> Kaleo: I will be on Natty soon to report bugs ;)
<Kaleo> akshatj: great!
<Kaleo> akshatj: me too :)
<ogra> didrocks, so for unity-2d we need that metacity patch (not sure you remember)
 * spikeb is excited about this unity-2d stuff
<didrocks> ogra: I remember to have been pinged about it. I asked for a bug/branch to see the patch :)
<ogra> it apparently only is in effect if a gconf key is set so i dont understand why it was rejected
<ogra> oh, i understood you rejected it already
<Kaleo> spikeb: great :)
<ogra> Kaleo, where ts the patch ?
<Kaleo> ogra: let's have a look
<spikeb> i love Unity, and I was sad to think that perhaps i couldnt use it on ARM or PPC (for nvidia macs).
<spikeb> but now, oh boy! ;)
<ogra> spikeb, it will be default on all arm images we build ;)
<spikeb> ogra, awesome
<spikeb> now i have no excuse not to get some arm hardware...my wallet isn't going to be happy
<ogra> and if you actually have 3D drivers it will try to run the 3D version
<ogra> get a pandaboard ;)
<ogra> they are cheap and the most powerful stuff you can get atm
<spikeb> thinking about it. or an efika mx
<Kaleo> spikeb: the efika is not really .. fast
<spikeb> Kaleo, that much i already knew heh
<didrocks> ogra: no, I didn't
<didrocks> ogra: I asked to be subscribe to something I can review :)
<didrocks> subscribed*
<didrocks> ogra: sorry, was disconnected
<spikeb> hmm i just realized i can run unity-2d on my old work machine
<didrocks> ogra: so yeah, I just asked for a branch/something I can review
<didrocks> ogra: so that I can look at how it works and ensure we won't have side-effects in the other sessions
<ogra> didrocks, yeah, i got that
<didrocks> ogra: take care, that patch was written by a KDE guy (and French to make it worse :p)
<ogra> hah
<agateau> I am that bad!
<didrocks> agateau: at least, two reasons, right ;)
<didrocks> agateau: btw, how was your flight back?
<ogra> the code itself looks good to me
<agateau> didrocks: fine, and you?
<ogra> it only acts on the gconf key
<didrocks> agateau: didn't find any sleep, but fine still :)
<ogra> i cant judge the theme stuff though, that needs a metacity expert
<didrocks> ogra: can I see it? (and so, you enable the gconf key in the unity2d session?)
<spikeb> hmm im going to have to put back that old machine together and try out the ppa for unity-2d.
<ogra> didrocks, let me pastebin it
<ogra> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/555098/ (ignore the debian/patches/series messup)
<agateau> didrocks: do you want me to propose a branch of lp:~ubuntu-desktop/metacity/ubuntu with the patch?
<ogra> agateau, it is a packaging patch anyway
<ogra> if didrocks approves by the paste above i will just take care of it in the package
<agateau> ogra: great, thanks
<ogra> no need for additional paperwork ;)
<agateau> :)
<spikeb> well, it is a new week, so i want to thank everyone involved for helping make ubuntu rock.
<ogra> you do that weekly ?
<ogra> :)
<spikeb> yes.
<spikeb> i am that excited about ayatana's impact.
<ogra> hmm, i should hang out more often in #ayatana we dont have such praise in the other ubuntu channels ;)
<Kaleo> spikeb: glad to have you
<spikeb> thank you.
<spikeb> I am more of a fanboy than a contributor thus far, but that is slowly changing. :)
<Kaleo> spikeb: moral support is very important!
<nerochiaro> beer support is also very important ;)
<bratsche> Morning.
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: make it a nice Mendoza's Malbec
<agateau> Kaleo: something is wrong with unity-2d milestones: http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-plasmoidviewery13564 ... any idea?
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: i'll see if i can find out around here
<Kaleo> agateau: oh god
<Kaleo> agateau: no idea, it's definitely a lp bug
 * agateau randomly picks a target
<didrocks> ogra: agateau: sorry was distracted, looking now
<ogra> didrocks, imho the code looks fine, i just cant judge theme.c and .h
<didrocks> agateau: are you sure about (flags & META_FRAME_MAXIMIZED), it's not a composed mask?
<didrocks> agateau: well, there is no vertical or horizontal maximization in metacity, isn't it?
<multiplatinum> ivanka!
<multiplatinum> are you Ivanka Majic, of the design team?
<Amaranth> ogra: This patch changes the ABI for libmetacity-private, no?
<Amaranth> I know the desktop team has never wanted to accept a patch from me that changed a libraries ABI
<Amaranth> err, library's
<Amaranth> But I suppose with upstream not caring much about metacity anymore it probably won't be an issue and afaik only compiz uses libmetacity-private outside of metacity itself
<ogra> well, i dont think you actually need to change the ABI for adding a downstream change that adds an additional function
<ogra> its not that it changes existing fucntions in a way that would affect anything
<Amaranth> ogra: I meant the part where you add a MetaTheme argument to existing functions
<ogra> ah, thats the part i said i cant judge
<ogra> ;)
<didrocks> agateau: did you see my ping? ^^
<agateau> didrocks: (conf call)
<Amaranth> The patch as a whole looks sane otherwise
<didrocks> ok :)
<Amaranth> didrocks: oh, metacity does have separate horizontal and vertical maximize
<didrocks> so, the patch needs to (value & mask) == mask
<Amaranth> yep
<didrocks> Amaranth: and yeah, it's changing the ABI, so it needs a compiz rebuild and such
<Amaranth> didrocks: but will the desktop team allow an ABI change that hasn't been approved by upstream?
<didrocks> Amaranth: this one is quite tricky, I added a simple one for compiz last week, but it wasn't so much an issue
<ogra> we could fork metacity and call it umetacity :P
<Amaranth> hehe
 * Amaranth tries to think of another way to achieve the same effect
<didrocks> Amaranth: well, it's not like if we added an arg to a function, it's only adding something to a struct
<Amaranth> didrocks: seb128 rejected adding to the end of an enum in libwnck once :P
<didrocks> Amaranth: libwnck requires quite a big archive rebuild :)
<didrocks> metacity "just" requires compiz AFAIK
<Amaranth> that's the thing, it was adding not changing
<Amaranth> no rebuilds needed, unless you wanted to use the new thing
<Amaranth> but it brought the ABI out of sync with upstream
<Amaranth> ah, and there he is :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: hum, adding an element to a struct breaks the ABI and needs a rebuild?
<ogra> speaking of the devil
<didrocks> Amaranth: apart if there are empty slots of course
<didrocks> or am I totally wrong?
<Amaranth> didrocks: Yeah, if you add something to a struct that doesn't have padding you change the ABI because sizeof is wrong
<Amaranth> didrocks: Although GTK+ has done that in the past and they decided anyone doing sizeof on the struct was wrong :)
<didrocks> ahah :)
<Amaranth> seb128: still on dallas time? :)
<ivanka> multiplatinum: Hello! Indeed I am. Were you wanting something in particular
<Amaranth> didrocks: oh, in case you didn't notice, I did the compiz plugin-extra upload
<Amaranth> I dunno if I'm supposed to mark that in bzr or something, didn't want you to try to do it as well :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: yeah, I noticed that, thanks! :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: did you use the bzr branch? I didn't check
<didrocks> let me look :)
<Amaranth> didrocks: yeah, I merged andrewsomething's branch so what we have is what is actually in natty then updated the branch for the ABI change
<didrocks> Amaranth: perfect, just a side note: we tend to use UNRELEASED instead of natty, and finally dch -r "" && debcommit -r
<didrocks> that set it to natty + tag the branch with the revision
<Amaranth> didrocks: ah, right
<didrocks> Amaranth: thanks for taking care of that :)
<Amaranth> I knew about UNRELEASED but didn't know how to update it afterward, I was always pushing stuff and having mvo pull and upload before
<didrocks> Amaranth: it's just a dch -r "" (set it to natty, take care as it's updating the owner in changelog when you are doing sponsoring)
<didrocks> debcommit -r is like debcommit + tagging
<didrocks> the commit message becomes "Releasing <version>"
<Amaranth> yeah, I saw those, now I know how they get created :)
<Amaranth> thanks
<didrocks> yw :)
<multiplatinum> ivanka,  yeah, how often does Pidgin crash on you when you're connected to IRC?
<ivanka> multiplatinum: pretty much never. I do sign in and out a lot though because I wander round the office connecting to different access points
<ivanka> multiplatinum: why?
<multiplatinum> was wondering if you got the same stupid thing going on like me, I'm using Xchat now, which crashes less often
<multiplatinum> ivanka,  anyways, I got another question :P. Will I be able to change the orange selection color to blue in Natty?
<ivanka> multiplatinum: Why blue?
<multiplatinum> ivanka,  the blue from Clearlooks fyi, cuz the orange hurts my eyes in some cases
<ogra> because blue is the new orange :P
<multiplatinum> and what ogra said :D
<Amaranth> eep, unity has forgotten about my terminals
<ogra> Amaranth, *desktop*shell, you know ;)
<Amaranth> I have a blank spot where the terminal icon should be and two terminal icons at the end of the list
<kvalo> tedg: hi. I need some help with dbus signals
 * Amaranth files bug
<didrocks> Amaranth: blank terminal icon?
<Amaranth> didrocks: yeah
<didrocks> Amaranth: can you look at the list of the desktop file you have?
<didrocks> gsettings get com.canonical.Unity.Launcher favorites
<Amaranth> didrocks: there is a blank spot but it still gets a menu and such
<didrocks> Amaranth: they should have the same order than your panel
<didrocks> Amaranth: then, look at the desktop file to ensure there is an Icon= entry
<multiplatinum2> got disconnected, can i see what's been said while i was away?
<Amaranth> didrocks: they do
<Amaranth> didrocks: it just went blank after running for a while
<Amaranth> didrocks: It did this right after upgrading too but I just restarted compiz and it went back to normal last time, figured I should poke more since it happened again
<didrocks> Amaranth: oh? it's becoming blank? So not the big I fixed saturday :)
<Amaranth> yeah
<didrocks> bug*
<Amaranth> and yes, gnome-terminal.desktop has an Icon line :)
<didrocks> fortunatly ;)
<kvalo> tedg: I don't get this. I'm trying to send n-m StateChange signals manually with dbus-send. with dbus-monitor they look exactly same as the real signals sent by n-m, but still apps ignore my signals.
<multiplatinum2> ivanka,  the blue from Clearlooks fyi, cuz the orange hurts my eyes in some cases
<Amaranth> didrocks: filed a bug, is there anything apport doesn't automatically collect that I should provide before I restart compiz?
<didrocks> Amaranth: well, I'm not sure it will provide enough info for that case. Just wait a second, looking for something
<evilvish> multiplatinum2: in the theme you can change it from preferences
<Amaranth> also, yay, another bug I can poke DBO about :)
<multiplatinum2> evilvish,  but won't that mess up natty? i.e. the titlebar buttons in the top panel, and maybe some other things?
<didrocks> Amaranth: you have a bamf dbus interface with views objects having Icon() method
<evilvish> multiplatinum2: the title bar is dark what does that have to do with select color?
<didrocks> Amaranth: but I can DBO can answer that later :)
<Amaranth> didrocks: let me poke at it with d-feet, see what it shows
<multiplatinum2> evilvish,  the titlebar buttons, even tho i will only change a color, it's not ambiance, so therefore the panel might mess things up (i think)?
<tedg> kvalo, They're probably setting up their filters to only see the ones that come from NM.
<evilvish> multiplatinum2:  there is a bug to allow the top panel to switch according to the theme.. though not a high priority ;)
<tedg> kvalo, So the dbus server is blocking them as the filters aren't setup to allow other senders.
<kvalo> tedg: but why does dbus-monitor still see my signals?
<multiplatinum2> a bug you say?
<tedg> kvalo, dbus-monitor sets up a wildcard filter, so it gets everything.
<kvalo> tedg: ah, you are not talking about /etc/dbus-1 configs
<evilvish> multiplatinum2: yup, a bug has been filed.. so you can subscribe to it â¦
<kvalo> tedg: ok, understood. thanks a lot
<tedg> kvalo, No, individual client filter setups.
<ivanka> multiplatinum2: hmmm. This is my first day back at my actual desk this calendar year and I have been in meetings away from my email all day. Perhaps ping me about this next week and we can actually talk about it?
<Amaranth> didrocks: well, that's not helpful. I have an application in bamf that has a blank name, application-default-icon, and some windows marked as children
<evilvish> who broke unity!!! ;p
<evilvish> why does panel keep loading during unity session.. :s
<Amaranth> didrocks: they separate from that I have one for Terminal
<Amaranth> s/they/then/
<didrocks> Amaranth: ok, then, let's wait on DBO
<didrocks> evilvish: what's your version of gnome-session?
<Amaranth> didrocks: this is going to screw with my OCD heavily, hope he shows up soon :)
<didrocks> hehe, probably after US holidays though :)
<Amaranth> oh, right, I think I'm supposed to be off today or something
<Amaranth> I don't pay attention to such things, I just see what day it is :P
<evilvish> didrocks: gnome-session 2.32.1-0ubuntu10
 * evilvish checks updates..
<didrocks> evilvish: try ubuntu11, but ubuntu10 should be reasonable on that already
<didrocks> Amaranth: hehe :)
<evilvish> k..
<Amaranth> hmm, I wish there was a tool to dump a dbus tree to file
<Amaranth> I may have to write something to do so, or just figure the bug will happen again eventually
<ogra> cant d-feet do that somehow ?
<Amaranth> Hmm, forgot to look
<Amaranth> Already restarted compiz, I'll go yak shaving next time it happens :P
<multiplatinum2> ivanka,  what part didn't you get? :S
<ogra> didrocks, are you still waiting for agateau answer or did you make a decision abut the metacity patch i missed ?
<didrocks> ogra: i'm still waiting for agateau answer, yes, as it's possibly buggy
<didrocks> ogra: in any case, this upload needs to rebuild compiz as well
<ogra> k
<agateau> didrocks: mmm... need to reread the patch to answer, hold on
<ogra> didrocks, rebuild or code changes ?
<didrocks> ogra: just a rebuild
<ogra> i'll take care of that then
<didrocks> ogra: but I would prefer someone to day that locally to ensure all is ok then
<ogra> thats tricky since natty is so broken atm
<ogra> i cant dist-upgrade here currently
<ogra> (thanks to webkit)
<didrocks> ogra: I can handle that tomorrow if nedded, I want to finish some hacking before
<ogra> ok
<ogra> i should be able to do maverick -> natty as well over night on arm ...
<Amaranth> ogra: Right now the only thing I have affected by an upgrade is banshee
<ogra> just webkit needs to get in sync again ... and thats building sicne 4h
<Amaranth> Oh, you mean on arm
<ogra> yes
<ogra> we have that silly thing that arch: all packages are built on x86 ... so that brings the non x86 arches out of sync
<Amaranth> webkit takes ~1 hour on my desktop, can't imagine it taking more than 5 hours on ARM
<ogra> its 4h in
<ogra> sprints/rallies are really bad for arm ;)
<Amaranth> hehe
<ogra> people tend to do uploads !
<Amaranth> Before the sprint started webkit stuff was broken on x86 so it's got to be better than that
<ogra> pffft
<ogra> who cares about x86
<ogra> thats so last decade
<ogra> arm is the future
<multiplatinum2> but arm is 32b
<Amaranth> holy crap I don't get duplicated title bars anymore
<ogra> multiplatinum2, who cares if you can have 32 cores for half the price and power of an x86 ;)
<multiplatinum2> 32 cores? lol
<ogra> s/power/power consumption/
<agateau> didrocks: yes, I think it must be a bit check (as opposed to the '==') because flags can contain other info like META_FRAME_HAS_FOCUS for example
<ogra> multiplatinum2, http://www.linuxuk.org/2010/09/arm-a15-a-game-changer/
<agateau> didrocks: or did you mean there could be other bits indicating maximized windows?
<Amaranth> hey with 32 cores we don't need a GPU :)
<didrocks> agateau: right, if this is like compiz, maximized is done with vertically maximized and horizontally maximized bits
<didrocks> agateau: so your check will match for either of those, which isn't good
<agateau> didrocks:  MetaFrameFlags says has only META_FRAME_MAXIMIZED
<agateau> s/says//
<multiplatinum2> i know arm is the shit, but it's 32 bit, 64 bit is better right?
<didrocks> agateau: ok, in that case, it should be ok. If someone will file a bug about it, I'll track you down ;)
<agateau> didrocks: :)
<ogra> Amaranth, yeah, GPUs are last decade as well :) just have more framebuffers ;)
<didrocks> ogra: so, just need a compiz rebuild with that to check, I can do that tomorrow if needed
<Amaranth> ogra: so the A15 is 64-bit then, right?
<ogra> didrocks, ok, lets get together tomorrow again then, i'll take care for the metacity patching (so the upload has my name on it for blames)
<didrocks> ogra: sure!
<ogra> Amaranth, i think still 32
<Amaranth> ogra: that blog says it can access 1TB of RAM
<ogra> yeah
<Amaranth> ogra: that's 40-bit address space
<Amaranth> actually that's higher than an x86-64 CPU can manage...
<multiplatinum2> so arm > 32bit and arm-15 > 64 bit?
<dbarth> didrocks: mind if i switch https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/703140 to just high, since it doesn't crash or prevent unity from running?
<dbarth> it's a regression though
<didrocks> dbarth: it's a regression and people experience it can't use unity for more than 10 minutes without switching it off, it's unusable as distracting
<didrocks> dbarth: I don't want that setting it as high will get it slip off for weeks
<didrocks> or you will have a bunch of others not testing unity daily because of that bug
<didrocks> ogra: how did you call the 2d session file in gnome-sessions?
<ogra> didrocks, not at all yet
<didrocks> ogra: to follow other schemas, can it be 2d-ubuntu.session ?
<ogra> ah, the session file is called unity-2d iirc
<ogra> we just dont enable a default yet (since we have not any usable images atm)
<didrocks> ogra: ok, can it be renamed to follow the other schemas? (I'm making a change depending on that)
<didrocks> ogra: I mean, the session file in /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/
<ogra> yeah, thats /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/unity-2d.session
<ogra> we can surely rename that (needs checking with Kaleo)
<didrocks> ogra: thanks :)
<didrocks> you'll just need to sync that with /usr/share/xsessions/yoursession.desktop
<Kaleo> ogra: sure it can be renamed
<ogra> Kaleo, i'll take care tomorrow
<ogra> (no hurry as long as we are not fully installable)
<JamesMR> tedg: would I be right in thinking you're a good person to ask about custom indicator widgets?
<tedg> JamesMR, Not sure, but I could probably point you in a better direction if not :)  What are you trying to do?
<JamesMR> tedg: I'm looking to embed a webkit.WebView into an indicator
<Kaleo> ogra: indeed :)
<Kaleo> ogra: thanks for the great help
<ogra> welcome, happy to take care of packaging issues :)
<tedg> JamesMR, Please don't do that. :)  The indicators are designed to be menus.
<JamesMR> is it illegal?
<tedg> JamesMR, Heh, well, I doubt the police would enforce it even if I asked :)
<JamesMR> tedg: would it be possible?
<tedg> JamesMR, It would only be possible with a system indicator and not an application indicator.
<tedg> JamesMR, You'll have a really difficult time dealing with all the grabs though.
<JamesMR> Why is that?
<tedg> JamesMR, Because menus have some special properties in X to make everything work correctly.  I'm quite sure that WebKit does it's grabs differently, so they'll probably fight.
<JamesMR> aah
<JamesMR> tedg: what if I were using it simply to display information?
<Amaranth> JamesMR: Is there a reason you have to use a webview to display something small enough to fit in a menu?
<JamesMR> I want it to look pretty
<Amaranth> JamesMR: You can make it look pretty without webview :)
<JamesMR> with shiny graphics?
<Amaranth> heck, with cairo you can make it look however you want
<Amaranth> JamesMR: webkitgtk is built on top of gtk and cairo so it makes sense to assume whatever you can do with a webview you can do with them
<Amaranth> JamesMR: Do you have a screenshot or mockup of what you want to put in the indicator menu?
<JamesMR> is there any easy way to do that with python?
<Amaranth> well, there is pycairo
<tedg> JamesMR, In general, if you want a window you should make a window.  Don't try to force stuff into a menu.  Use the menu as a list if things or, just have a window in general.
<jfi> JamesMR, interest of appindicator is to be homogeneous (same behaviour, same interaction,etc), you will remove this advantage if you do a custom display
<JamesMR> If I'm looking to create an applet to display information about the environment, and want to make it look nice, but feel that a full app/window is just too much
<JamesMR> what would you suggest I do?
<tedg> JamesMR, Well, it of course depends on the information.  But, I'd look at working with the gnome-system-monitor folks...
<JamesMR> sorry, real world environment, not computer =/
 * tedg forgot about that environment -- is that the thing that looks like my screensaver?
<JamesMR> could be
<tedg> JamesMR, In general, I'd recommend the app approach.  There's no reason that it can't pop-up an application indicator when there is important information.  Or to make the window call for attention.  Both of those will notify the user.  Think of it more like a music player, where it might be minimized a lot, but that doesn't take away from it.
<JamesMR> right
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: the workspace switcher branch is pretty neat!
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: thanks, lots of work needed there though
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: what happened to mumble ?
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: I'm still there
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: arent you?
<jono> heya folks
<jono> which package do I file  bugs against for the global menu?
<tedg> jono, Depends what the bug is :)
<jono> tedg, I sorted it
<jono> filed it against indicator-appmenu
<jono> GIMP menus not showing
<tedg> jono, Hmm, okay.  On Natty?
<jono> tedg, yup
<jono> other apps seem to work fine
<tedg> Uhg, happens to me too.
<nmarques> guys mind of a question... is it really needed to build dbusmenu with introspection for non-devel purposes ?
<Amaranth> nmarques: the introspection stuff is used at runtime for dynamic languages
<Amaranth> nmarques: so if you don't want any python apps, sure :)
<nmarques> Amaranth, I'm trying to build this on a non-ubuntu platform, but the latest updates are giving me very strange errors :/
#ayatana 2011-01-18
<kvalo> morning
<oSoMoN> good morning
<kamstrup> hi all
<kvalo> kamstrup: hey. how was your trip back home?
<kamstrup> kvalo: ok thanks - no problems. How was yours?
<kamstrup> you met your connecting flight in Paris?
<kvalo> kamstrup: pretty good actually, I got three seats in the over atlantic flight! :D
<kamstrup> kvalo: lucky bastard :-) I was crammed
<kvalo> kamstrup: plane late 10 mins, bus ride to the terminal and had to run all the way. but made it :)
<kvalo> kamstrup: I was sooo lucky. slept like 5 hours on the plane
<kvalo> with three pillows and blankets I was able to create one proper pillow :)
<kamstrup> So if I have either Firefox or Thunderbird running I get the stacking bug not only in the indicators but also in any menus of all apps....
<kamstrup> Known bug?
 * kamstrup logs in to a legacy session
<seiflotfy> hey guys
<smspillaz> alright #ayatana - I need someone who is not using xorg-edgers and someone who is using xorg-edgers to test something for me
<smspillaz> hover over a menu to reproduce the "my menu doesn't appear bug". When you hover over where the menu *should* be - I need to know if it appears and if you are using xorg-edgers or normal stock xorg
<smspillaz> dbarth: I found something interesting in compiz re all of this btw - onestone's got us hooked up to the damage handler twice for each drawable
<smspillaz> once for the window pixmap and once for the window handle itself
<smspillaz> kamstrup: yeah it's a known bug - I'm working it out now
<smspillaz> kamstrup: it goes deep deep into Xorg - quite nasty
<kamstrup> smspillaz: ok, I just only ever saw it in the indicators :-)
<smspillaz> yeah
<kamstrup> smspillaz: ok, lemme know if there's anything I can do to help
<smspillaz> if it is annoying you so much where you don't mind losing window borders and click to focus you can manually disable reparenting :p
<kamstrup> (leaving you alone is a valid answer ;-P)
<smspillaz> kamstrup: heh
<smspillaz> kamstrup: well actually
<smspillaz> kamstrup: what card do you have ?
<kamstrup> smspillaz: oh, it's the ever wonderful, super powerful, i945
<smspillaz> (this bug is actually two different bugs manifesting as one)
<smspillaz> kamstrup: ok - can you reproduce the version of this where the menu doesn't appear, but if you hover over where it should be it does ?
<smspillaz> on newly created windows
<smspillaz> I thought I saw this on my intel machine today, but I might be delusional
<kamstrup> smspillaz: meh, so now I can't reproduce it at all anymore...
<smspillaz> kamstrup: it's a race condition, that's what makes it a pain :)
 * smspillaz just can't get over the look of those new icons in the launcher
<kamstrup> yeah it does look awesome
<didrocks> smspillaz: hey, we have people complaining about bug #704231. Is it the way compiz works when you assign a value to a grab key or is it a mistake in my code?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 704231 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity steals <super> modifier key" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704231
<smspillaz> didrocks: if you grab the super key, the passive grab activates
<smspillaz> didrocks: I think if you return false in your callback it will put back the ButtonPress event
<smspillaz> *think*
<didrocks> smspillaz: ok, so I should just return false?
<smspillaz> didrocks: yeah, try that
<smspillaz> didrocks: well return false when you didn't actually eat the event
<smspillaz> eg, pressing super when the launcher is *hidden* should return true, pressing it when it is already there should return false
 * smspillaz still thinks that launcher-on-super is a bad idea
<didrocks> smspillaz: let's see how it goes
<smspillaz> didrocks: ok
<didrocks> smspillaz: I'm already returning false
<didrocks> smspillaz: see in unityshell.cpp, with the showLauncherKeyInitiate and showLauncherKeyTerminate
<smspillaz> didrocks: hrm ok
<smspillaz> didrocks: is it a necesscity that it need to be the super key by itself
<smspillaz> ?
<smspillaz> since this problem could easily be avoided if we just changed it to eg super-u or whatever
<didrocks> smspillaz: that's how it's planned to work yes
<smspillaz> urhg
<dbarth> API, rodrigo_: ping?
<didrocks> smspillaz: like, if you then super + 0, you open the first element
<didrocks> and such
<didrocks> smspillaz: in any case, so returning false is already in the code
<API> dbarth, pong
<smspillaz> didrocks: ok, well does the super key actually need to be opening the launcher ?
<didrocks> smspillaz: no idea why compiz grab that?
<smspillaz> didrocks: well I know that compiz grabs the key if you have an action set on it - that is what it is meant to do
<didrocks> smspillaz: again, it's in the design
<smspillaz> but grabbing an entire modifier tree is pretty greedy
<smspillaz> didrocks: can we file a design bug? :p
<didrocks> smspillaz: hum, you mean, super + 0 then won't work?
<didrocks> smspillaz: seems more a compiz bug for me
<smspillaz> didrocks: well super-0 will work
<smspillaz> if you set an action to super-0
<dbarth> API: skype?
<smspillaz> didrocks: it's not really a compiz bug - the logical thing to happen here is that when you press the super key it will show the launcher and not do anything else
<API> dbarth, I made a upgrade yesterday, lets hope skype working today ;)
<API> dbarth, a mon, moving to other room
<smspillaz> didrocks: I mean, I guess I could make a returning false action do XPutBackEvent
<didrocks> smspillaz: that would be nice
<didrocks> at least, we still have the option to prevent or not the action to be passed
<didrocks> smspillaz: want a bug report for that?
<dbarth> smspillaz, didrocks: what's the status with the top-3 priority bugs btw?
<smspillaz> dbarth: still looking into this damage one
<smspillaz> dbarth: onestone did something weird in the damage tracking bits of opengl and *gasp* didn't document it
<didrocks> damage one?
<didrocks> so the stacking issue is fixed?
<smspillaz> I haven't started on the stacking one
<didrocks> didn't you start on that last week?
<smspillaz> I started it and then saw that it was really 2 bugs in one
<dbarth> smspillaz: this needs to be your priority sam, it's a major regression
<smspillaz> dbarth: I'm aware :)
<dbarth> smspillaz: right, i saw your point about one bug actually being 3
<didrocks> on the 3, there is still the crash at start, right?
<smspillaz> with gconf ?
<dbarth> i understand the 1st one is solved, but there are still 2 stacking and damage issues to solve
<didrocks> yeah, with gconf
<smspillaz> dbarth: yes
<dbarth> and then, there is the crasher
<smspillaz> didrocks: yes that's on the radar - no time to start it yet
<rodrigo_> hi dbarth
<dbarth> rodrigo_: hi
<dbarth> uh, i lost API in the meantime
<rodrigo_> dbarth, he said he was moving to another room, should be back soon, I think
<dbarth> rodrigo_: i wanted to do the weekly call i had planned in my calendar
<rodrigo_> ok, skype?
<dbarth> rodrigo_: yup
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> dbarth, my skype id is rodrigo.moya
<rodrigo_> here's API back
<Kaleo> good morning
<kamstrup> kvalo: I have to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ConnMan/Installation on Natty as well, right?
<kamstrup> kvalo: indicator-network seems to remember the password even if it's rejected. Should I file a bug for this?
<rodrigo_> dbarth, bug #686672
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 686672 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity doesn't start with nvidia closed driver" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/686672
<dbarth> API, rodrigo_: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/places-views
<dbarth> API, rodrigo_: https://code.launchpad.net/~gordallott/unity/unity-tile
<kamstrup> why do my gtk theme get flipped to Raleigh every time a change a setting somewhere?
<seb128> kamstrup, is that the default theme?
<seb128> kamstrup, could be gnome-settings-daemon crashing?
<API> dbarth, rodrigo_ https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/702685
<kvalo> kamstrup: yes, follow the maverick instructions.
<kvalo> kamstrup: that's by design. what we need to do is to offer the possibility to check and change the passphrase.
<njpatel> didrocks, hey dude, did your auto-maximise branch land for last week's release?
<njpatel> didrocks, I'm still getting new windows at  near-maximised size but not undecorated
<ogra> didrocks, hey, how is the jetlag ?
<njpatel> awww
<spikeb> you guys killed him!
<ogra> heh
<kvalo> seb128: hi. do we have a maintainer for empathy?
<seb128> hi, sort of, why?
<seb128> the desktop team is doing updates, kenvandine and some community people usually
<kvalo> seb128: there's an issue with connman, just about to file a bug. just wondering should I create a patch for it
<seb128> why should empathy know about connman? I though the api to check online status etc where identic the n-m one?
<seb128> or that there was a compatibility wrapper
<seb128> well in any case it's not likely than anyone else will write a fix for connman so yeah you should do it if you want one
<kvalo> seb128: the implementation in empathy uses libnm for some reason
<njpatel> because it's nicer to use lib instead of dbus?
<seb128> you can try asking on #empathy
<kvalo> seb128: they support also connman, but there's only a compile time switch to enable it
<njpatel> (not having a go, but just dbus is a crap API)
<seb128> but it's likely what njpatel say, using a lib is nicer than using dbus calls
<kvalo> yeah, but I doubt libnm is the best option here. most likely it does more than just checks the state
<kvalo> I'll debug what's the problem with libnm
 * didrocks wants a working internet connexion :/
<didrocks> njpatel: re: automaximize branch: it landed last week, yeah. We have already some wishlist about an option to deactivate it
<didrocks> njpatel: do you think we should activate it depending on screen size?
<kvalo> seb128, njpatel: yeah, libnm init does more than just checks the network state. seems to query available hw etc and no wonder it fails with connman
<njpatel> didrocks, yeah, but we'll come to that in time :)
<njpatel> didrocks, okay, i wonder why it isn't working for me :(
<njpatel> kvalo, oh, yeah, libnm isn't the right thing to use, but was just saying that they probably when searching for a proper API
<kvalo> njpatel: yeah. me, dbarth and kamstrup have been talking about implementing a proper network api for applications. I'm this > < close to writing one :)
<didrocks> njpatel: seems to work too well for some people :)
<didrocks> njpatel: the only check is > 0.6 of the screen and < 1
<didrocks> (and that it's a normal window && maximizable)
<njpatel> didrocks, chromium doesn't seem to be automatically maximised :/
<didrocks> njpatel: only chromium? let me check. (I have to relaunch unity now because of bug #703140, I can't really use it anymore :/)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 703140 in unity (Ubuntu) "The whole screen is cleared to black when using the workspace switcher (wall plugin)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/703140
<didrocks> njpatel: chromium is working hereâ¦
<didrocks> are you sure you have more than 60% of the workarea coverage?
<njpatel> didrocks, yeah, it's basically maximised apart from the titlebar
<njpatel> didrocks, I have "use system decorations" checked
<njpatel> man, I'd pay money for my keyboard not to reset to en_US every flipping reboot
<didrocks> njpatel: I think I have the same option too (I have the unity-window-decorator), but I can't open the option menu because of the stacking issueâ¦ the window is undecorated and maximized there when I open itâ¦
<didrocks> njpatel: I'll try to have a look
<didrocks> I'm wondering why people using Scribes seem to have an issue with the automaximization (like, it's slowing down their system a lotâ¦)
<njpatel> didrocks, needs to redraw everything, probably
<didrocks> njpatel: yeah, I guess there are a lot of remapping happeningâ¦ I'll try to confirm that. If so, we should maybe blacklist it?
<kamstrup> could someone review https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/libunityectomy/+merge/46590 I'd really much like to land it today so we can get a new and separate libunity tarball out there
<ogra> didrocks, sooo ... metacity
<kamstrup> gord: maybe you have time for https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/libunityectomy/+merge/46590 ? It would be relevant with your stamp on it if you are the one who's gonna rewrite the perf logger...
<rodrigo_> njpatel, how do the unity branches land? is it running tarmac or does it need to be done manually?
<njpatel> rodrigo_, manually right now, tarmac no workie
<didrocks> ogra: yes? did you install the patch and rebuild compiz against it?
<rodrigo_> njpatel, can you then please merge this one -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/unity/a11y-global-listeners/+merge/46242 ?
<njpatel> robtaylor, your a unity-team member now, so you can do it :)
<njpatel> rodrigo_, ^, even
 * njpatel needs some more lemsip
<rodrigo_> njpatel, ah, ok
<ogra> didrocks, my dist upgrade on my arm machine failed, i'll try again on x86
<ogra> (webkit is still broken on armel)
<gord> kamstrup, 8169!!
<gord> oh wait, its almost all deletions
<didrocks> ogra: yeah, that will at least enable you to see it doesn't break unity as well :)
<kamstrup> gord: it should amount to simply removing libunity - so that's the main thing you should focus on
<kamstrup> gord: hence "libunityectomy" ;-)
<gord> kamstrup, i'll take a look after lunch
<kamstrup> gord: thanks
<\sh> which package gives me unity-2d in natty? all unity-2d-* packages or just one?
<didrocks> ogra: ^^
<ogra> \sh, none yet, packaging is still being fixed up
<\sh> ogra: hurry ;)
<rsalveti> but unity-2d-default-settings should install everything
<ogra> but if everything is done it should be unity-2d-default-settings
<rsalveti> :-)
<ogra> the metacity bit is missing
<\sh> ogra: kk
<ogra> so its uninstallable
<ogra> and my laptop is just upgrading to natty now until i can to a testbuild it will take a while
<\sh> ogra: armel or x86?
<\sh> for x86 and x86_64 I could help
<ogra> i guess didrocks only wants a test on x86
<didrocks> I think that one test will be enough, right
<didrocks> just to ensure we don't see weird effects between sessions
<ogra> \sh, metacity needs this patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/555098/ (drop the last line though)
<ogra> then compiz needs to be rebuilt against the new metacity development libs
<ogra> and then unity (3d) needs to be tested with that
<rodrigo_> yay, unity works for me now
<rodrigo_> well, it starts, it's got a lot of non-working stuff
<\sh> ogra: patch against metacity 1:2.30.3-0ubuntu2 ?
<ogra> against whatever is in natty
<\sh> kk
<ogra> the original patch is from maverick
<ogra> i hope it applies cleanly
<ogra> would be awesome if you could do that since my dist-upgrade might still take some hours
<didrocks> \sh: btw, you might want to use the two Vcs: lp:~ubuntu-desktop/metacity/ubuntu and lp:compiz
<\sh> ogra:  90_autotools.patch is neither in bzr nor in the latest natty package
<ogra> oh, just ignore that one then
<\sh> kk
<ogra> just dont apply the last line of my patch
<\sh> you mean 99_ltmain_as-needed.patch should still be in the patch set
<ogra> (well the unity-2d teams patch, but you know what i meant)
<ogra> well, it shouldnt be removed
<ogra> that was a mistake
<ogra> as i said, the patch was originally for the maverick metacity
<didrocks> seb128: if you have a minute, can you try to confirm bug #704413 and if you can (can't find a reproducible testcase), bug #704416 please?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 704413 in compiz (Ubuntu) "unity-window-decorator doesn't draw "unfocused state" of title bar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704413
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 704416 in compiz (Ubuntu) "unity-window-decorator doesn't draw the decoration on some unmaximized window" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704416
<smspillaz> kvalo: so for this menu issue - here's how you can help me debug it
<smspillaz> kvalo: sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager
<smspillaz> kvalo: enable the "Debug Spewer" plugin
<smspillaz> kvalo: change the "Spew debugging info (or whatever it is)" keybinding to whatever you want
<smspillaz> kvalo: now log out, log back in, reproduce the issue and then immediately afterwards press that keybinding
<smspillaz> kvalo: compiz will freeze for a few seconds and then unfreeze
<dbarth> smspillaz: and so not the damage issue, but the stacking one now, right?
<smspillaz> kvalo: after that, drop to a VT (still with the menu open) and DISPLAY=:0 xwininfo -root -all and DISPLAY=:0 wmctrl -l
<smspillaz> dbarth: correct
<dbarth> smspillaz: ie, click on a menu, see it's not visible and press the shortcut
<smspillaz> dbarth: yes
<dbarth> ok, trying that now
<smspillaz> dbarth: kvalo: but make sure it is the one where click on the menu, see it isn't visible, hover over the menu -> it still isn't visible
<smspillaz> and then paste or mail me the output :)
<smspillaz> oh
<smspillaz> one mor thing
<smspillaz> the output for the "debug spewer" output is written to a file in /tmp
<smspillaz> called something like /tmp/compiz_state${PID}
<kvalo> smspillaz: ok, working on that
<smspillaz> thanks
<kvalo> damn, I think compiz crashed when I enabled the plugin
 * dbarth restart his session
<smspillaz> if anyone is feeling really nice, they could tell me how to get from a clean install to that bug, I would give them a cookie
<smspillaz> kvalo: yeah, it's a known bug for compiz to crash when enabling other plugins with unity enabled
<dbarth> smspillaz: it actually crashed compiz...
<smspillaz> :/
 * dbarth restarts his session again
<kvalo> smspillaz: I mapped the key to super-m. but I don't get any file when a menu is open and I press the key. but if menu is closed, I get the log file
<smspillaz> ah rats that's true
<smspillaz> it's because the menu has a grab
<smspillaz> kvalo: ok, just a second then
<smspillaz> kvalo: can you disable unity, enable dbus then enable unity ?
<smspillaz> (in ccsm)
<smspillaz> well, it will crash anyways, duh
<smspillaz> njpatel: just an FTY - unityshell.cpp should destroy the nux input windows on unload
<smspillaz> *FYI
<kvalo> smspillaz: ok, trying that
<kvalo> cyphermox: good morning
<kvalo> cyphermox: hey, is libnm meant to be used by applications?
<cyphermox> kvalo, yep, that's the point :)
<kvalo> cyphermox: that's a lot of information available to them
<smspillaz> kvalo: ok - dbus enabled ?
<kvalo> cyphermox: and libnm doesn't work with connman compat stuff.
<dbarth> smspillaz: doesn't work
<kvalo> smspillaz: I think so, let me double check
<smspillaz> dbarth: weird. bt ?
<dbarth> smspillaz: i've been hit really badly by the gconf crasher
<cyphermox> nah... libnm really asks NM about the devices it knows
<dbarth> impossible to restart unity in debug mode
<kvalo> smspillaz: at least dbus is now ticked in ccsm
<didrocks> smspillaz: so, the super + m keybind don't work inside compiz as well? the super keybind is preventing that?
<dbarth> and whenever i've tried the spew debugger, it crashed on me
<smspillaz> didrocks: works fine
<dbarth> i had set alt+super+ctrl as the keybinding
<kvalo> smspillaz: what now?
<didrocks> smspillaz: oh, ok, it's only when a menu is opened, I read that too quickly, sorry :)
<smspillaz> kvalo: ok, so reproduce the issue, then drop to a vt
<\sh> smspillaz: good to see you.,..is it correct, that xev doesn't output the Super_L keycode anymore under unity 3d?
<smspillaz> kvalo: and then do this dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.compiz /org/freedesktop/compiz/debugspew/screen0/spew_key org.freedesktop.compiz.activate
 * \sh crap <- meeting <- laters
<smspillaz> kvalo: and then DISPLAY=:0 xwininfo -root -tree
<smspillaz> and then DISPLAY=:0 wmctrl -l
<smspillaz> \sh: yeah I know, I am tracking this one
<smspillaz> \sh: Super_L has some weird modifier code
<dbarth> ah, now i've managed to get a bt
<smspillaz> dbarth: cool
<kvalo> smspillaz: ok, working on it
<dbarth> it apparently crashes when trying to print a startup notification %s\n
<smspillaz> let's see
<dbarth> where the string is null
<dbarth> ap=0x0
<smspillaz> yeah
<smspillaz> I figured that might happen
<kvalo> smspillaz: I had to add DISPLAY=:0 also to dbus-send. but still no luck, I don't see the log file in /tmp
<smspillaz> huh
<dbarth> smspillaz: here is the trace: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/555400/
<smspillaz> kvalo: what happens if you use that dbus-send comamnd with the menu closed ?
<didrocks> smspillaz: why weird modifier code? it's just unity the compiz option
<didrocks> using*
<didrocks> kamstrup: dude, do you have a minute to talk about zg & co?
<kvalo> smspillaz: hmm, I seem to get the file if I switch from vt back to X
<kamstrup> didrocks: sure
<didrocks> kamstrup: so, I want to update the stack in natty, what should I know?
<didrocks> kamstrup: all latest release is good? what about the fts extension?
<kamstrup> didrocks: the fts extension should be compatible
<kamstrup> didrocks: the latest release upgrades the internal DB schema, and there's no turning back
<lamalex> Is there any design spec about multi-monitor?
<didrocks> kamstrup: that's done automagically on first start, right?
<didrocks> kamstrup: so, there is no patch to carry on? fts is still part of the extension tarball, isn't it? Should I ship another extension as well?
<kamstrup> didrocks: yeah, the DB upgrade is done automagically on first run
<smspillaz> didrocks: yeah but the super key is handled weirdly in xkb and I bet we've got the wrong keycode modifier for it hardcoded in to compiz
<kamstrup> didrocks: and yes, the fts extension still lives in lp:zeitgeist-extensions - it has seen no changes recently
<didrocks> smspillaz: urgh, ok, that's related to the bug I subscribed you in any caseâ¦
<kvalo> smspillaz: yeah, after dbus-send I need to switch from vt back to x and then I get the log file
<smspillaz> kvalo: could you mail me those logs ?
<conscioususer> excuse me, sorry to disrupt the current discussion, is there someone here who I can ask a small design question about the appmenu to?
<kvalo> smspillaz: copying them to my workstation right now. you will get them in three mins
<kamstrup> smspillaz: can https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/703411 be marked as bitesize?
<kamstrup> seems like a nice self contained task at least
<nmarques> tedg, Ted, anyway I could have a minute with ya? There's one question I have around libindicate in which I believe you can help me (gobject-introspection related)
<tedg> nmarques, Sure.  What's up?
 * tedg is not sure he can answer gobject-introspection questions, but will try.
<nmarques> tedg, for the latest version of libindicate, has any special patch been applied to the gtk2 stack ?. I've managed to fix it for the previous version, but this one is breaking on locating CLI files
<tedg> nmarques, No, I don't think so.
<tedg> nmarques, We had to do some adjustments to the command line parameters for Natty, but that wasn't patching, just cleaning things up.
<nmarques> tedg, ok. I'm just asking because I saw a bug report from someone at Frugalware which seems to be running against the same issue
<\sh> ogra: metacity building...sorry for taking so long..but real live work as prio 1 :)
<ogra> indeed
<nmarques> tedg, I'll take a closer look into this. If there's need for patching, I'll submit it.
<ogra> my lappie is still on its was maverick -> natty :/
<ogra> *way
<tedg> nmarques, Great!  Thanks, sorry I'm not that familiar with the introspection stuff.
<\sh> ogra: now...when metacity was build .. I have to rebuild compiz?with new libmetacity packages, right?
<ogra> yep
<\sh> ogra: building..rushing home now will check a bit later if everything is ok..metacity build successfully
<ogra> cool
<ogra> did the patch apply cleanly to the natty version ?
<ogra> or did you have to touch it
<\sh> ogra: yes it applied and no i didn't :)
<ogra> awesome
<\sh> I'll fetch the buildlogs when I'm at home ...
 * \sh needs to fix the kitchen first...if not Madame Adig will be not amused ;)
<\sh> laters...
<ogra> ciao, and thanks a lot !
<tedg> kenvandine, Can you see if lp:~ted/dbusmenu/builder-crash fixes your nm-applet issue?
<kenvandine> will do
<rodrigo_> API, ping
<rodrigo_> njpatel, ping
<njpatel> rodrigo_, hey hey hey
<rodrigo_> njpatel, I have a few doubts on the panel stuff in unity
<rodrigo_> there are Panel* classes in src and then the panel service in services/
<njpatel> yep
<rodrigo_> so, can you explain me what each does?
<njpatel> rodrigo_, the panel service loads the indicators and their menus in a separate process, and then exports the state of the indicators (just the top row of labels/icons) as a model over D-Bus
<rodrigo_> njpatel, ok, and then the Panel classes do the actual rendering of the panel, right?
<njpatel> rodrigo_, Unity (src/Panel*) connects to this D-Bus daemon and renders the panel using this exported state. If something is clicked, it requests that the menu is shown (to the panel-service)
<njpatel> rodrigo_, and then there is a bit of code either side to keep things in sync
<rodrigo_> and why is it in a separate process?
<njpatel> rodrigo_, so if the indicators crash, we can safely reload without having to crash compiz too
<rodrigo_> ah ok
<njpatel> rodrigo_, it was a common point of failure in the last Unity
<rodrigo_> so, the panel service just manages the indicators?
<njpatel> yep
<njpatel> it might do more in the future, but that's it for now
<rodrigo_> and the rest of stuff shown in the panel (home button, etc) is all managed in the Panel* classes?
<rodrigo_> that is, no UI in the panel service?
<rodrigo_> or rather, who owns the actual menus that are shown when you click on indicators?
<kenvandine> tedg, yes it does appear to fix nm-applet
<tedg> kenvandine, Sweet!
<kenvandine> tedg, should i distro patch?
<kenvandine> that is kind of a nasty bug
<tedg> kenvandine, Sure
<tedg> kenvandine, It's a pretty safe patch
<kenvandine> looks like it
<kenvandine> will do
<jono> tedg, are you experiencing issues with indicator menus not working today in Unity
<jono> none of my indicators or menus are working
<kenvandine> jono, you mean not opening menus?
<kenvandine> or not loading?
<jono> kenvandine, not opening
<kenvandine> ok, right click on the desktop
<jono> I can see the menus, I click them and they don't drop down
<kenvandine> i think that is the stacking bug in compiz
<kenvandine> if you right click on the desktop, it seems to kick it into gear
<jono> kenvandine, aha!
<jono> I will check it out soon
<kenvandine> jono, and if that doesn't work
<kenvandine> like a right click doesn't show you a right click context menu
<kenvandine> change workspaces
<kenvandine> and right click again
<kenvandine> it will work then
<kenvandine> don't ask me why... but sometimes i have to do that
<kenvandine> very annoying :)
<jono> heh
<kenvandine> it's like the old TV antennas
<jono> kenvandine, works now, thanks!
<kenvandine> hold the wire, stand on one foot and stick your arm out ... and hold it to watch tv :)
<jono> haha
<kenvandine> its kind of sad, my behavior has been altered... after logging in i automatically hit "ctrl-alt-left" then right click
<kenvandine> :-p
<kenvandine> whoops... ctrl-alt-right
<kenvandine> i'll never notice when the bug is actually fixed, i guess
<joaopinto> is that bug specific to natty's compiz / unity ?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> compiz i think
<kenvandine> been there for quite a while
<joaopinto> I have a similiar issue with 10.10, at random boot the gnome2 menu does not respond to clicks
<joaopinto> boots
<joaopinto> I was unable to find a reason, cpu is low and no relevant error :(
<lamalex> jcastro, ping
<TheMuso`> tedg: Are you ok if I assign the libindicator task to myself in bug 691677? I already have the code for that written here locally, and will push once I have code for all indicators and the applet ready for review.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 691677 in libindicator "Icon-only menu titles don't have accessible names" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/691677
<TheMuso`> s/push/file a merge proposal/
<tedg> TheMuso`, Okay, can you throw up the libindicator branch just so I can see it before you port everything?
<TheMuso`> tedg: Sure, can do.
<lamalex> wow empathy is segfaulting, and apport isn't catchin git
<lamalex> appears to be a problem with webkitgtk
<lamalex> and debugging symbols have clonflicts
<lamalex> cool
<TheMuso> Lovely.
<RAOF> Is there a -dbg as well as a -dbgsym?  The -dbgsym takes a little while to actually get published, in my experience.
<coz_> hey guys.. has anyone noticed  these white triangles showing up on certain docks..dialogs..or applications?  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/132551/screenshots/white-triangle.png
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.  I need to file a bug on that.
<coz_> RAOF,   ah cool... apparenlty it is showing up for a few people...
<RAOF> Presumably everyone using the new GTK
<coz_> RAOF,  that must be it... it first showed up ...here... using cairo dock... it is constant  also on a few dialogs for me anyway
<coz_> RAOF,   was this t
<coz_> RAOF,   was t his intended as a "grab handle" ?
<RAOF> Yes, it is.  You're looking at bug #704105
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 704105 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "Resize grip always appears in bottom right of GTK+2.0 windows" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704105
<coz_> RAOF,  ok thanks... I wonder if it could just be "transparent"  making the "grab area "  larger but not visible?
#ayatana 2011-01-19
<didrocks> good morning
<kvalo> didrocks: bonjour
<didrocks> kvalo: hey! how are you?
<kvalo> didrocks: I'm good, thanks. how about you?
<didrocks> kvalo: I'm fine, thankss ;)
<MacSlow> hey didrocks
<didrocks> Guten Morgen MacSlow
<kamstrup> is there some switch to make grep match regexes across line breaks?
<\sh> kamstrup: afaik grep only works on single lines...
<kamstrup> ok, good ol' Python to the rescue then :-)
<\sh> kamstrup: perl could be a bit easier for regexps ;)
 * kamstrup is not compatible with perl ;-)
<\sh> kamstrup: lol
 * didrocks install kamstrup-perl5 binding
<kamstrup> aha! so that's the thing I am missing!
<\sh> ogra: got my mail?
<\sh> didrocks: todays unity somehow gives me "launcher -> right click on icon of running app -> launcher disappears" ;)
<ogra> \sh, yeah, thanks a lot ... my maverick to natty upgrade is still running (16h now)
<\sh> ogra: when you need i386 builds...raise your hand ;)
 * ogra is getting really annoyed by the kbd selection dialog
<\sh> ogra: yeah this kdb debconf questioning is really bad
<ogra> and my kernel cant be installed too
<didrocks> \Ãis it crashing?
<didrocks> \sh: ^^
<ogra> lol
<ogra> \sh, you should highlight on \Ã
<\sh> didrocks: no..it just disappears or something is drawing over the launcher because hte ubuntu symbol in the upper left edge goes away too
<\sh> didrocks: are you using a german keyboard ? ;)
<didrocks> \sh: no, a plain azerty one, but I have a special keymapping for â¦ and other funny stuff :)
<\sh> ogra: I wanted to change my nick from \sh to \sa but I was troubled 'cause of some german problems with that abbreviation ;)
<ogra> heh, yeah
<\sh> or I change it to "sadiq" (which is wrong from my last name now, but translates into a good islamic name [http://www.islamic-dictionary.com/index.php?word=sadiq])
<kvalo> smspillaz: hey. I'm about to do that 'compiz --replace > file' you asked yesterday. is it ok to run it from vt or from X?
<kvalo> smspillaz: also, anything else I should try?
<smspillaz> kvalo: I've reproduced the bug here, no need to worry
<smspillaz> unfortunatly every single freaking bug has decided to reproduce itself here as well
<kvalo> smspillaz: good that you can reproduce it
<smspillaz> or bad
<ogra> didrocks, so, metacity rebuilt with the patch, compiz rebuilt against the new lib, all working fine
<ogra> is there any specific area of functionallity i should check ?
<didrocks> ogra: nice, go ahead then! commit to the vcs and push
<didrocks> ogra: well, if unity is working, with decoration and such, I think it's ok
<ogra> ok, yeah, all decorations are there
<didrocks> like maximizing an app removes the decoration, you still get them if you unmaximize them
<ogra> maximized and normal
<ogra> yep
<didrocks> ok, sounds good :)
<ogra> i didnt recognize any change in behavior
<ogra> great
<\sh> didrocks: btw..any timeframe when places are coming back? ;)
<didrocks> ogra: use the two vcs and push
<ogra> ok
 * ogra wishes he had a logout menu :P
<didrocks> \sh: they will be there for alpha2, so soon :)
<didrocks> ogra: I've other pending change in compiz, wait, pushing
<ogra> no hurry
<ogra> i need to care for metacity first anyway
<didrocks> ogra: pushed in lp:compiz
<didrocks> ogra: just ensure you add the breaks:
<ogra> uploading compiz before thats in the archive wont make sense
<ogra> uh, breaks ? against what ?
<ogra> older lib version you mean ?
<didrocks> ogra: well, metacity should breaks: against the current compiz
<ogra> ok
<didrocks> as if you don't rebuild it, it will clash
<ogra> yep
<ogra> metacity is lp:~ubuntu-desktop/metacity/ubuntu ??
<didrocks> ogra: you got it :)
<ogra> great
<ogra> didrocks, the breaks goes only into libmetacity-private0, right, no need for other breaks entries
<didrocks> ogra: exactly, as the library isn't so "private" :p
<ogra> hehe
<ogra> didrocks, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/metacity/ubuntu/revision/99 can you do a quick crosscheck before i upload ?
<ogra> uuuh
 * ogra forgot bzr add
<didrocks> "classic" :-)
<ogra> me adds and pushes rev 100
<ogra> the rest is in 99
 * didrocks looks
<didrocks> ogra: sounds good!
<didrocks> please upload :)
<ogra> great, i'll upload and take care of compiz (unless you upload anyway inbetween)
<didrocks> ogra: I can upload the rebuild, I'll remove an option and dep on the new version
<ogra> ok
<ogra> didrocks, wheer the heck do you hide the gconf and .session files ? i cant find a -default-settings package anywhere in natty
 * ogra is looking into renaming the session file etc 
<didrocks> ogra: it's in gnome-session-common now
<ogra> ah
<didrocks> ogra: you should put that as part of the unity-2d package I think
<ogra> well, we have unity-2d-default-settings
<ogra> i'd like to not break away to much from the oem team naming so upgrading for people using the ppa doesnt get to hard
<ogra> (read: i planned to keep the package as is for now, we can migrate in natty+1)
<didrocks> ogra: as you wish, just ensure that you'll have to transition then :)
<ogra> yeah, i'll check with Kaleo ... i just want a sane upgrade path without to many transitional packages
<didrocks> ogra: you will need for natty+1 in any case, it's just pushing the transition one cycle away
<Kaleo> ogra: I think it's better to upgrade asap
<Kaleo> ogra: less people are using natty now than when it's released
<ogra> didrocks, yep, Kaleo just told me he plans to do the change in the ppa too
<ogra> so i'm fine
<didrocks> nice :)
<ogra> my main focus is just to keep ppa and natty in sync from now on ...
<ogra> (before it was to have -2d installable at all ;) )
<ogra> which reminds me, i need to touch all packages to add the new Vcs-Bzr entries :)
 * ogra stops slacking and looks at the branches
<Kaleo> ogra: item on my todo list:  * packages: update Vcs-Bzr in debian/control for libqtbamf, libqtdee and libqtgconf
<Kaleo> ogra: thank you for taking over my tasks I really appreciate it
<ogra> haha
<Kaleo> (my todo list is huge since Friday)
<ogra> my team messed it up, so my team should fix it
<ogra> and given that these US westcoast slackers always sleep until 4pm ...
<ogra> *g*
<ogra> so i'm looking into it
<ogra> but first of all ... lets try to upgrade my arm netbook to natty
<ogra> ah, crap, wont work without new QT
<Kaleo> ogra: don't forget to push the change pof
<Kaleo> ogra: don't forget to push the change of Vcs-Bzr to their respective trunks
<ogra> Kaleo, hmm, something is wrong with libqtbamf ... its a native sourcepackage
<ogra> (in the ppa)
<ogra> i'm just recompiling the ppa stuff locally for arm
<nq6> hi
<nq6> New idea for unity. Video Sample. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N5W48zJMdM
<ogra> Kaleo, the others all look fine, not sure what happened there
<ogra> hrm, no, not true, unity-2d too
<ogra> is that because of your hudson stuff ?
<Kaleo> ogra: yes
<ogra> hrm
<Kaleo> ogra: it removes the format file before building
<ogra> thats really ugly
<Kaleo> ogra: just for the ppa
<ogra> still
<Kaleo> ogra: I don't have any other option at hand
 * ogra wishes we could find a way to not break the packaging for daily builds
 * Kaleo prays
<ogra> you think religion works ? ... hmm :)
<Kaleo> lol
<Kaleo> kamstrup: thanks for the quick response I will look into it
<ogra> i wonder if we cant just put a bzr export ... rm debian tar ... into the reciepe
<ogra> so we get a proper upstream tarball
<Kaleo> ogra: that sounds smart
<Amaranth> nq6: arg, music
<Amaranth> nq6: although, I think that overloads the sidebar
<ogra> Kaleo, fyi, i can confirm the blue crap is gone on my tegra ac100 with the latest ppa packages
<ogra> the bamding is also a lot better in 0.4
<ogra> *banding
<Kaleo> ogra: sweet
<klattimer1> tedg: kenvandine I wont be uploading datetime today, I've had to do some extra work getting eds right and still need to rebase to gdbus and a few more things
<tedg> klattimer1, Please don't rebase, but merge.
<tedg> klattimer1, Rebase is an evil thing used by inferior DVCSes :)
<shirish> sladen: highlight
<klattimer1> ok ok
<klattimer1> :)
<klattimer1> Uh oh
<klattimer1> evilvish:
<klattimer1> what have you done with vish
 * klattimer1 forsee's some kind of superman 3 esq- rescue coming along
<evilvish> :-D
<shirish> ivanka1: are you the same ivanka whom I had mailed sometime back ?
<jcastro> DBO: ping
<DBO> pong
<jcastro> DBO: wanna do an ubuntu user day on Unity with me?
<jcastro> it's on a saturday night though
<DBO> sure
<DBO> hey, I love working weekends, its like my favorite thing :P
<jcastro> it's 1/29, 9pm-10
<Amaranth> Oh, it's DBO!
<DBO> no its not
<DBO> DIRTY LIE
<DBO> jcastro, its on my calendar now
<Amaranth> DBO: I have to put my mouse on the panel to make the launcher appear when I have intellihide enabled
<Amaranth> DBO: This is broken
<DBO> Amaranth, you are acting like I design this thing
<DBO> thats a very silly way to act
<Amaranth> DBO: gord blames you :P
<DBO> please take design complaints to the ayatana mailing list
<DBO> gord is just passing the buck, like I am, nothing new to see
<DBO> I just happen to know where the buck stops :P
<Amaranth> DBO: Whenever I complain about something else you say you only handle the launcher :)
<DBO> Amaranth, you'd be surprised how handy it can be to complain to the person responsible for what you are complaining about
<DBO> :)
<gord> i only said to bug DBO because he knows more about it ;)
<gord> i'm as bemused as you!
<Amaranth> DBO: But you're my go-to guy for complaining
<DBO> Amaranth, and thats quite alright for me, because if you complain to me it costs me 30 seconds of time. If you complain to someone with power to change it, it might cost me a lot more dev time.
<Amaranth> DBO: You're not making this very fun
<DBO> Amaranth, Im having fun
<DBO> maybe we need clowns
<Amaranth> Clowns are always helpful
<jcastro> DBO: this should have been in the last upload right? Bug #688406?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 688406 in unity (Ubuntu) "Launcher does not respond to scroll events" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/688406
<DBO> jcastro, I thought it was fixed earlier but yeah
<sladen> shirish: hello
<shirish> sladen: finally, but right now doing something else, I would ping you in about 20 odd minutes, is that ok ?
<sladen> shirish: anytime
<shirish> sladen: Got it done sooner than I expected.
<shirish> sladen: Now I don't know how complicated or simple this is gonna be.
 * popey tickles DBO under the command of jcastro 
<popey> DBO: I'd like to add an icon to the launcher (as I used to add to the panel in Ye Olde GNOME), but I need to specify command line parameters - e.g. "firefox --ProfileManager", how can I do that with the unity launcher? I see no way to edit the entries that exist in that menu.
<DBO> popey, the best you can do is make a new .desktop file
<DBO> and then make that a favorite
<shirish> sladen: this is something I need to figure out first http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/users/msg01128.html
<popey> DBO: there's no way to maintain that menu other than by some magic with a .desktop file?
<DBO> popey, currently no
<DBO> popey, nobody has asked me to make a change to do that really
<popey> DBO: I am guessing a wishlist bug isn't going to help here.
<\sh> didrocks: you remember the problem I described this morning? now, gnome-session foo is not started correctly under unity (I have now the default gnome/gtk theme) and now the launcher works
<didrocks> \sh: you mean, you have gnome-panel?
<\sh> didrocks: well, if that means, that ps -ef|grep gnome-panel gives a match, no
<didrocks> \sh: what do you mean by "gnome-session foo is not started correctly under unity"
<didrocks> \sh: no theme?
<\sh> all icons are not ubuntu theme alike...they are more gnome standard
<didrocks> \sh: gnome-settings-daemon is maybe segfaulting
<\sh> but now the launcher works with right clicks on the run app icons
<didrocks> we have some bugs about that
<didrocks> if you logout/login, it should be started again
<\sh> at least it runs
<didrocks> or you can launch it by hand
<\sh> what I mean is gnome-settings-daemon runs
<\sh> but what I can see  in .xsession-errors is that gnome.settings-daemon : Unable to start xsettings manager
<\sh> and that I can only run one xsettings manager at a time...
<\sh> further more: gnome-session: Could not launch application 'libcanberra-login-sound.desktop" and I/O warning: failed to load entity "/home/<myuser>/.compiz/session/<hash>"
<\sh> and a nice assertion meaning "UNITY_IS_ROOT_ACCESSIBLE (self)" failed...
<didrocks> \sh: weird, not related to gnome-session in any case
<didrocks> \sh: you should try at least to kill it and start it again
<\sh> yes..killed settings daemon, restart -> the look we all want
<\sh> could it be, I was logged in a ubuntu classic  session and then logged out and reloggedin into unity
<didrocks> \sh: well, it will be an interesting gnome-settings-daemon but report if you can reproduce it reliably
<\sh> let me start from scratch, reboot login into classic session etc.
<\sh> didrocks: as always, not reproducable...*banghead*
<didrocks> :/
<shoonya> Hi all, i am trying to install unity on Fedora 14. I have got everything required for unity (3.2.8) and unity itself compiled and installed.
<shoonya> when i enable unity plugin in ccsm, i get following error
<shoonya> GLib-GIO-ERROR **: Settings schema 'com.canonical.Unity.Launcher' is not installed
<shoonya> can someone help me resolve this issue
<sense> shoonya: Maybe GSettings isn't properly set up on your system.
<shoonya> sense: how to set it ?
<sense> shoonya: If Fedora 14 is already using GSettings you should check whether Unity's GSettings schemes are already installed.
<sense> I don't know how you can install gsettings schemes, you'll have to look that up.
<shoonya> gsettings is available in F14. Any idea how to set unity's gsettings ?
<seb128> how did you install unity?
<seb128> is the unity schemas in usr share glib-2.0 schemas
<shoonya> seb128: i installed it manually (created an rpm) and here's the list of files of the unity package
<shoonya> http://fpaste.org/5BjE/
<seb128> you need to run glib-compile-schemas
<seb128> on the schemas dir after install
<seb128> not sure if your rpm does that?
<shoonya> no, i will run glib-compile-schemas and check
<shoonya> tried glib-compile-schemas /etc/gconf/schemas and got the following message
<shoonya> No schema files found: doing nothing
<seb128> you need to run it on the gsettings directory
<seb128> usr share glib-2.0 schemas
<shoonya> got it and unity is not working on fedora
<seb128> how not working?
<seb128> what version did you build? what compiz version do you use?
<shoonya> unity = 3.2.8 with compiz = latest git (compiz-with-glib-mainloop)
<seb128> what error do you get?
<shoonya> oops... typo error i meant to say now working
<seb128> ok
<achiang> http://twitter.com/#!/havocp/status/27790993600282624
<Amaranth> weird, my launcher suddenly has a shadow
<TheMuso> tedg: In case you missed the email or you don't get merge proposals via email for indicator-applet-developers, here is my merge proposal for the accessible name change. Feel free to leave it unmerged at this stage, as I want to get everthing else finished fist.
<TheMuso> tedg:
<TheMuso> tedg: https://code.launchpad.net/~themuso/libindicator/accessible-name/+merge/46699
<TheMuso> damn terminal cut and paste shortcut not working until I use the menu.../
<tedg> TheMuso, Yeah, sorry, I saw it but didn't review.  Let me do that now.
<TheMuso> np
<TheMuso> tedg: Thanks, as I said I'd rather not merge till everything else is ready, thanks for the suggestion, will do that.
<tedg> TheMuso, Yeah, no problem.  I won't merge it until you give the green light.
<TheMuso> Ok thanks.
<jono_> kenvandine, ping?
#ayatana 2011-01-20
<kenvandine> jono_, pong
<kamstrup> morning all
<kamstrup> Why do I see random changes in po/unity.pot on *every* merge request?
<MacSlow> hey everbody!
<kamstrup> hey Mr MacSlow
<MacSlow> hey kamstrup
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> âmorninâ!
<coz_> definitly morning
<coz_> 3:15am here
<kamstrup> gord: morning dude - I posted some comments on your places tiles you might wanna have a look at
<didrocks> smspillaz: hey, what file the spewer plugin does generate on SIGSEV ?
<smspillaz> didrocks: /tmp/compiz_internal_state${PID}
<smspillaz> didrocks: though really, I'm not sure of the point of that, considering that it spews to stderr as well and that goes straight to .xsession-errors
<didrocks> smspillaz: hum, I don't have such a file
<smspillaz> didrocks: weird
<smspillaz> didrocks: maybe it crashed while spewing ;-)
<didrocks> smspillaz: hum, let me try againâ¦
<didrocks> bbl
<smspillaz> didrocks: btw, I noticed that there sees to be a truncation of the beginning of the file, so I'll need to look into that
<didrocks> smspillaz: ok, let's see if I have something generated at least first
<didrocks> smspillaz: doesn't work
<didrocks> seb128: do you have a minute to confirm?
<seb128> confirm what?
<didrocks> seb128: can you enable the Debug Spewer plugin in ccsm, and send a sigsev to compiz. You should then have a file in /tmp/compiz*
<seb128> on current natty?
<didrocks> yes, please
<didrocks> with last week compiz, you should get the spewer plugin
<seb128> no
<seb128> that doesn't do anything, got a crash when ticking the option in ccsm then I sent it a -11
<didrocks> seb128: you mean, you sent the -11 after restarting compiz, isn't it?
<didrocks> (after the crash ticking it in ccsm)
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> seb128: thanks for the test :)
<seb128> got it to crash when opening ccsm now
<seb128> still nothing dumped
<seb128> you're welcome
<didrocks> smspillaz: was it really working for you? how hard did you test it? ^^
<didrocks> I can't add it to the unity hook then and can't enable it by default :/
<didrocks> smspillaz: ^^
<smspillaz> didrocks: it works fine for me
<smspillaz> didrocks: maybe the packaged version is broken
<smspillaz> didrocks: I'll look into it when I get some time
<smspillaz> (currently working on the menu bug)
<smspillaz> didrocks: actually, I noticed something else today - are you getting an error which says "couldn't load because opengl or composite isn't loaded?"
<smspillaz> for debugspewer
<didrocks> smspillaz: how the packaged version can be broken? I just took your distro patch
<smspillaz> *shrug* maybe my patch was broken
<smspillaz> it's possible
<didrocks> smspillaz: where? when there is a crash or when it's started?
<smspillaz> didrocks: when compiz starts
<didrocks> smspillaz: let me look
<didrocks> smspillaz: no, nothing
<smspillaz> didrocks: weird
<smspillaz> didrocks: is apport catching the compiz crashes ?
<didrocks> smspillaz: yeah, there is the generated file in /var/crash
<smspillaz> weird
<smspillaz> didrocks: I'll look into it when I get a chance
<smspillaz> didrocks: does the apport hook give us .xsession errors ?
<didrocks> smspillaz: yes, it does, as well as a lot of Xorg info, gdm and suchâ¦
<smspillaz> didrocks: ah ok, in that case we can probably nuke the file writing stuff in debugspewer then
<smspillaz> since it all ends up in .xsession_errors
<smspillaz> (fprintf (stderr, "blahblah"))
<didrocks> smspillaz: no, having this file in addition is better, don't spam .xsession-errors please
<didrocks> smspillaz: also, as the session crash, I think a lot of people will log again
<smspillaz> didrocks: ahh right!
<didrocks> so, .xsession-errors will be erased
<smspillaz> didrocks: well we have .xsession-errors.old
<didrocks> smspillaz: and if they start more than twice? (apport can report the bug laterâ¦)
<didrocks> smspillaz: I match the pid in the hook for being able to report the right spewer file
<didrocks> wellâ¦ once it will be there :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: but I buy your other point more - the debugspewer output is like 40,000 lines long, wouldn't want unity stuff lost in there
<didrocks> exactly!
<smspillaz> didrocks: :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: I'll look into it after I fix the stacking/menu bug today
<smspillaz> didrocks: it's not really a top priority
<smspillaz> didrocks: speaking of this stacking bug - do you know of any circumstances that make it easy to reproduce?
<didrocks> smspillaz: no, it's not, it's just annoying that it didn't work after the work effort you put in it
<didrocks> smspillaz: well, nothing changed since the past monthâ¦ it's still "random", most of the time, present at startup
<smspillaz> didrocks: the way I'm doing it now is dragging an icon rapidly from one side of the screen to the other until the icon is invisible, but it only happens rarely
<smspillaz> didrocks: but it's annoying since I get used to dropping the icon and I forget to not drop it when the icon is in fact invisible (wrongly stacked ;-))
<didrocks> :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: as for the debug stuff, I suppose that sucks that it doesn't work right now. The good thing is that kvalo and others have confirmed it to work with the keybinding mode anyways, so maybe we can make an apport hook to watch /tmp for a dump and do apport-bug automatically
<smspillaz> since most of the bugs aren't really crashers but rather when something weird happens WM wise and the user presses that button so that we can get some info of what's going on
<smspillaz> didrocks: I just rememberd - I may have commented out the signal handlers in the patch I gave you
<smspillaz> njpatel: do you know if unity-panel-service is creating and destroying the menu windows every time the user hovers them or is it just creating them once and then mapping/unmapping them ?
<smspillaz> since it really should do the latter
<didrocks> smspillaz: I think both are needed
<smspillaz> didrocks: yeah, agreed - although I suppose we can hook up the keybinding mode for now if I can't get enough time to figure out what's going on till the next upload in (in 3 h)
<didrocks> smspillaz: ok, if you can just test that later, ensure it works with apport, but again, it's not a priority, just nice to have that once we will turn that by default
<smspillaz> didrocks: indeed
<njpatel> smspillaz, i'm pretty sure it's the latter (we get the mennus from the indicator, the service isn't creating them itself)
<didrocks> smspillaz: well, it's more complicated to trigger apport on file watch, it's more on crash
<smspillaz> njpatel: hrm - I wonder why it's so laggy then ?
<smspillaz> njpatel: oh I know why
<smspillaz> njpatel: it's because we're doing the actual mapping setup and such in the same thread as the compositor which needs to show them
<njpatel> smspillaz, no, service is it's own thread
<smspillaz> njpatel: hrm ?
<smspillaz> njpatel: so the service is the one doing the mapping and unmapping then ?
<njpatel> smspillaz, it could be laggy becuase we need to request the showing of the menus of D-Bus, but still, it's not laggy here
<smspillaz> njpatel: it's *extremely* laggy on this i945
<smspillaz> njpatel: it's like compiz is getting the getting the window and it hasn't even finshed rendering yet
<njpatel> smspillaz, hmm, can you file a bug please and assign it to me
<smspillaz> njpatel: sure
<njpatel> smspillaz, yes, even here I get a white flash, it's somethign to do with the timing
<smspillaz> njpatel: like I said earlier, it certainly feels like there's some unecessary overhead going on - since a simple XMapWindow and XUnmapWindow is not that expensive
<smspillaz> unless you do XSync or something right afterwards
<smspillaz> didrocks: btw, on what signal are you doing the auto-maximization of windows ?
<njpatel> smspillaz, probably ,there is some horrid code in the service that I need to fix (it needs to track pointer motion right now). I was planning to take a look after A2, so let's revisit it then
<smspillaz> njpatel: urgh, yeah that's probably it :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: it might be worht adding a signal to UnityWindow::UnityWindow since that happens on MapRequest so the window isn't visible at that point
<smspillaz> that way you don't see the window get mapped unmaximized and then maximize
<smspillaz> didrocks: even better would be to wrap CompWindow::place, but that won't work because unity loads after place :/
<didrocks> smspillaz: it's not done on Reparent
<smspillaz> didrocks: what is it done on ?
<smspillaz> CompWindowNotifyReparent ?
<smspillaz> didrocks: oh actually
<smspillaz> didrocks: you should be able to wrap CompWindow::place
<smspillaz> didrocks: that way you can maximize the window there
<smspillaz> and it should appear maximized before it appears
<smspillaz> hm, intersting, the place plugin sends a maximization request ClientMessage to itself for maximization
<smspillaz> I wonder why that works
<didrocks> smspillaz: actually, I see it directly maximized here
<smspillaz> didrocks: that's because you have a fast machine :)
<didrocks> smspillaz: TBH, I think there are others things to focus on now :)
<didrocks> that can wait as a bug fi
<didrocks> fix*
<smspillaz> didrocks: yeah I know :) just things that I'm noticing while using a slow laptop
<didrocks> and I'm already really busy with other part of the stack
<didrocks> and you too :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: yeah :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: btw, we definitely need to tweak some of the wall plugin's settings for lower end laptops, doing things like painting textures twice and re-rasterizing them in different places is hugely expensive I've noticed
<smspillaz> or at least have a fallback mode
<didrocks> smspillaz: ok, we'll discuss that once the most annoying bugs are gone :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: indeed
<ogra> Kaleo, so unity-2d in natty installs fine and properly fires up all bits, but klicking on anything in the dash doesn nothing, nor does the searchbar give any results
<Kaleo> ogra: OF COURSE
<Kaleo> ogra: sorry for the caps
<Kaleo> ogra: silly keyboard
<ogra> missing places ?
<Kaleo> ogra: the place daemons you removed the deps on
<Kaleo> ogra: yep
<ogra> ah, k
<Kaleo> ogra: but it's coming back according to kamstrup
<ogra> i was suspecting that
<Kaleo> :)
<ogra> :)
<Kaleo> so sad..
<ogra> well, i'm happy it installs wi5hout any issues
<kamstrup> Kaleo, ogra: when todays release hits the archives the place daemons will be let loose once again
<ogra> ah, k
<ogra> should the API still work the same ?
<Kaleo> ogra: there are changes that I need to track
<Kaleo> kamstrup: great
<Kaleo> kamstrup: any ETA on that?
<kamstrup> Kaleo: ask didrocks
<Kaleo> didrocks: :)
<didrocks> depends on when kamstrup will make a place release :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: i think i already did, lemme check
<didrocks> kamstrup: what? without telling me!
<didrocks> that's mean :p
<Kaleo> hehe
<ogra> didrocks, just so that we can chase you for not uploading :P
<ogra> slacker !!!
<Kaleo> lol
<ogra> *g*
<kamstrup> didrocks: yes, u-p-f 0.5.34 and u-p-a 0.2.28 should be good to fly
<kamstrup> didrocks: I didn't shout it from the rooftops because it didn't make much sense to package them before after todays release
<didrocks> kamstrup: nice!
<kamstrup> or with todays release what ever suits you
<didrocks> kamstrup: depends, I still can prepare the update, I just want to ensure it works first :)
<Kaleo> sweet
<kamstrup> didrocks: it'll "work" with unity because they don't hook up the places yet
<Kaleo> lol
<Kaleo> that's one definition of work
<kamstrup> didrocks: unity-2d will require some updates to reflect the dee-0.5 api if Kaleo isn't on top of that already
<Kaleo> kamstrup: I will take care of that
<kamstrup> as I outlined in the email
<Kaleo> kamstrup: yep
<kamstrup> Kaleo: sweet
<didrocks> kamstrup: ok, so it's a wasted upload, you mean? :)
<kamstrup> didrocks: it depends - if Kaleo pushed a new unity-2d then that should be able to rock the house
<didrocks> Kaleo: just tell me once you will have updated it, I can push them in a ppa, but I want to avoid broken upload (broken as "no way to test before")
<didrocks> ogra: btw, did you rename the session?
<Kaleo> didrocks: as you wish but it cannot be more broken than before..
<ogra> didrocks, not yet
<didrocks> ogra: can you do it, so that we can have the fallback working as expected?
<ogra> didrocks, first i need to clean upt the copyright files and i'm still waiting for feedback from NCommander on one issue
<didrocks> ogra: oh, it's not in natty yet?
<ogra> once i'm through with that one I#ll take care of the session renaming
<didrocks> ogra: ok, no worry
<ogra> it is in natty but all branches point to upicek still
<didrocks> urgh :/
<ogra> it installs and runs fine btw
<ogra> i just tested+
<ogra> apart from places :P
<ogra> didrocks, we didnt have public branches ready, they were prepared *while* we were rushing the packages in ... thats what you get from early leakage :P
<didrocks> team to transition :)
<ogra> its all fine now, we only need places back, the session rename and then the merge of unity-2d-default-settings into unity-2d
<ogra> then we should be golden
<ogra> having it installable and running properly was the first target
<didrocks> right
<Kaleo> ogra didrocks what do we want to rename the session to?
<ogra> Kaleo, ubuntu-2d
<ogra> Kaleo, i'll care for that in natty
<ogra> no need to do it in maverick
<didrocks> Kaleo: 2d-ubuntu rather
<Kaleo> ogra: what is it now?
<Kaleo> ah
<Kaleo> oh
<Kaleo> that's odd
<ogra> (since the whole session handling changed between the two)
<didrocks> Kaleo: I'm talking about the session in /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/
<didrocks> not the one in /usr/share/xsessions/
<Kaleo> didrocks: right
<ogra> Kaleo, its just the two files
<ogra> or even one
<ogra> i didnt look closely yet
<didrocks> you have of course to update the file in /usr/share/xsessions/ to gnome-session --session=2d-ubuntu of course
<ogra> and the description in the session/desktop file i suppose
<ogra> indeed
<didrocks> yeah, look at the other to have some examples
<ogra> i'll get to that next ... as soon as i have spoken to NCommander and fixed the branch locations in all packages
 * didrocks is so happy to be able to defined starting component without a big hack in gconf :)
<ogra> apart from the merge i plan to be done with everything this week
<ogra> (i also have to file MIRs and get them through, would be good to have unity-2d in the alpha2 images)
 * ogra eagerly wants to get rid of the efl launcher
<ogra> (talking about armel only indeed)
<ogra> didrocks, looking at bug 705413 ... shouldnt we have a unity-common package for that ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 705413 in unity-2d "[packaging] include applications.png and files.png from unity in maverick packages" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/705413
<ogra> (in natty indeed)
<didrocks> there is already an unity-common, they will have the applications.png and files.png (or maybe it will be in the unity-asset-pool package) once the places will be back and they will ship it
<ogra> k
<ogra> i just need something that doesnt pull in all of the 3D stuff
<didrocks> ogra: but what's in /usr/share/unity/3 should be in common, indeed
<ogra> dont care how its called
<didrocks> ogra: well, unity-common is already there for that :)
<didrocks> Kaleo: do you use anything in /usr/share/unity/3 ?
<ogra> while we ship both in the arm images i know that there will be people that build custom images only shipping 2d
<Kaleo> didrocks: I don't know that folder
<Kaleo> didrocks: let me have a look
<didrocks> Kaleo: in any case, I'll put that in -common, makes more sense
<Kaleo> didrocks: please do
<didrocks> Kaleo: I think you will use the dbus unity-panel-service as well on day?
<Kaleo> didrocks: we don't use files from /usr/share/unity/3 *yet*
<Kaleo> didrocks: if you put them in common then we can depend on common
<Kaleo> didrocks: I don't knwo what that service is nor does
<didrocks> Kaleo: this is the service acting as a proxy between the indicators and you
<Kaleo> didrocks: is it new?
<Kaleo> agateau: do you know that ^
<didrocks> Kaleo: for natty, yeah
<Kaleo> ok
 * agateau reads backlog
<Kaleo> any doc anywhere?
<didrocks> well, ask the unity-team :)
<agateau> didrocks: how does it expose the indicators?
<Kaleo> ogra: I fucked up https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/705182
<agateau> didrocks: using libdee?
<ogra> Kaleo, hmm ? how ?
<ogra> i thought thats handled by the metacity patch
<Kaleo> ogra: I set it to fix released
<Kaleo> ogra: yeah but look at the version
<Kaleo> ogra: it says maverick
<Kaleo> odd
<ogra> well, set it back to New or something
<Kaleo> I cannot
<Kaleo> :(
<didrocks> agateau: it's using dbus AFAIK. It's not linked against dee
<ogra> i can
<ogra> done
<Kaleo> :)
<Kaleo> thx
<agateau> njpatel: ping, is there some doc about unity-panel-service somewhere? do you think this is something we should use in unity-2d?
<ogra> agateau, i think we have to to make it work in natty
<agateau> ogra: ok, but i'd like to know how to
<ogra> indeed
<ogra> though i see all indicators in the panel on my natty install
<ogra> seems they still all work
<agateau> we should try to share as much code as possible, though, and indicators implementation in unity-2d is not exactly beautiful, so that's another reason to use this service
<ogra> indeed
<njpatel> agateau, no documentation at the moment. I think you could use it, but there are some hacks in there as I haven't had a chance to work on it...probably after A2
<agateau> njpatel: does it handle all indicators? including the appmenu one?
<njpatel> agateau, yep
<njpatel> agateau, it has a dbus interface if you want to poke at it with d-feet
<njpatel> agateau, com.canonical.Unity.Panel.Service
<agateau> njpatel: ok, will have a look
<htorque> MacSlow, hello, is it by design that critical notifications show up on the unlock screen?
<jcastro> dbarth: got any new fresh bitesizers for me?
<jcastro> njpatel: normal release today?
<njpatel> jcastro, yeah, with the first cut of the dash home screen (no search, though :( )
<njpatel> http://people.canonical.com/~njpatel/gordlovesme.png
<jcastro> very nice
<MacSlow> htorque, no that's a bug
<htorque> MacSlow, should i file a report then?
<MacSlow> htorque, if it's not filed already... yes please
<m_conley> jcastro / chriscoulson: hey - I'm Mike Conley, that new MoMo hire, working on Thunderbird + Unity integration
<thumper> m_conley: what's a MoMo?
<m_conley> thumper:  hey - that's a short-form for Mozilla Messaging.  :)
<thumper> m_conley: so you work for Mozilla>
<thumper> ?
<m_conley> thumper:  Mozilla Messaging, with Mozilla as parent.  So yeah.  :)
<thumper> cool
<thumper> I know a few Mozilla guys
<m_conley> thumper:  it's a pretty awesome situation. :)
<m_conley> bbl - lunch
<jcastro> howdy m_conley
<jcastro> <-- just got back from lunch
<thumper> jcastro: which TZ are you in?
<jcastro> I am EST
<m_conley> back
<m_conley> jcastro:  hey!  just wanted to introduce myself, I guess.
<jcastro> awesome, welcome!
<jcastro> chrisccoulson: ^^
<chrisccoulson> hi m_conley!
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  I'm good!  Very excited to get started on this.  I'm just sorting through all of the material out there on this project - in particular, looking at your globalmenu-extension
<m_conley> as someone who's a bit new to the Mozilla framework, XPCOM, etc, it's quite a bit to digest
<m_conley> but I think I'm getting there.  :)
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, awesome :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm pretty new to this too, so the globalmenu work has been a steep learning curve ;)
<chrisccoulson> but interesting nonetheless :)
<chrisccoulson> but, if you have any questions, feel free to ask
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  awesome, thanks a bunch!
<jcastro> excellent </mrburns>
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  actually, I do have a question for you
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  I'm attempting to compile the globalmenu-extension, and I'm hitting a small dependency problem:  ./configure is looking for dbusmenu-gtk-0.4 ...but this package is, as far as I can tell, not listed in the Ubuntu packages.
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, which ubuntu version are you using?
<m_conley> I'm on Lucid
<chrisccoulson> ah, that will be why :)
<m_conley> this is uuber bleeding edge stuff?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, this currently only works on the current development version (it depends on some functionality we recently added to dbusmenu)
<chrisccoulson> i think it will compile if you drop the "-0.4" from the pkg-config check, but the menus won't work ;)
<chrisccoulson> if you don't want to run bleeding edge, it might be worth setting up natty in virtualbox
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  oh.  well that's no good.  :/  Hm...  yeah, a VM might be the way to go here.
<m_conley> cool, thanks.
<chrisccoulson> i think a few people have done that recently, and managed to get unity running successfully in it too
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, did you have unity working in virtualbox?
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, yup
<kenvandine> using it now
<m_conley> awesome sauce.  Alright, that's what I'mma do.  Thanks!
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, and it's pretty easy to get going?
<kenvandine> just need to install the guest additions
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, so, it should be ok in virtualbox :)
<chrisccoulson> thanks kenvandine
<kenvandine> so it will fallback to classic gnome until you install those
<kenvandine> you mount the iso, /usr/share/virtualbox/VBoxGuestAdditions.iso, in the VM
<kenvandine> and run the install script in it
<m_conley> cool
<m_conley> thanks. :D
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, i'll provide some packages for the extension later
<m_conley> gotcha.  alright, i'll let you know if I hit any walls.  thanks again!
<chrisccoulson> i got tbird 3.1 working last week, but i have a crash that only occurs with lightning installed. i'm not sure if you saw my mail last week to the thunderbird-unity group?
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: I did see that, yes
<chrisccoulson> it would be good to figure that out at some point :)
<m_conley> ok, noted. :)
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, do you have a launchpad account?
<m_conley> no, not yet.  I suppose I should get that going?
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, yeah, it could be useful :)
<m_conley> I just got my head wrapped around Mercurial, and now you've thrown Bazaar at me.  :p
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> bzr is pretty easy, thankfully
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  alright, cool
<MrChrisDruif> Hai y'all :)
<MrChrisDruif> Was there an ayatana UX meeting around 14:00CET today?
<MrChrisDruif> Anyone?
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  hey - so I've been trying to get the i386 Natty daily onto a VirtualBox for the last hour or so.  After install, it refuses to boot (lots of system messages, numbers, scary OS stuff).  Is there a version of Natty I can get thats known to work nicely with VirtualBox?  Or, the other way around, is there a version of VirtualBox known to work nicely with Natty? (I've got VirtualBox 4).
<m_conley> or should I be trying this with VMWare Player, or does it really matter?
<chrisccoulson> Vbox 4 should be ok. you could try the alpha 1 ISO, but there would be a lot of updates to do afterwards
<chrisccoulson> hopefully one of them will work :)
<m_conley> coolbeans
<chrisccoulson> i don't think vmware player has 3d support does it?
<m_conley> unsure
<chrisccoulson> do you know how far it boots? do you get to a login screen, or does it fail before then?
<chrisccoulson> i might try the latest daily in a bit
<chrisccoulson> natty is quite volatile right now ;)
<m_conley> well, I can do a full install, and then I reboot, and then I get a bunch of that scary business.
<m_conley> no login screen
<m_conley> i'm trying the alpha
<m_conley> i'll let you know.  :)
<coz_> vmware I dont think so
<coz_> m_conley,  which video card?
<m_conley> coz_:  no video card on the machine I'm running the VM on.  On board.
<coz_> ah ok
<m_conley> Having gone through the Ubuntu installer a few times now, I have to say:  lovin' the UI for it.  Very smooth, folks.
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  hey - I hate to bug you with support questions, but my Alpha 1 install of Natty is also hitting the fan.  Install hangs after displaying the following error:  http://imgur.com/K4AJ4 .  This occurs whether or not I choose to install updates while installing Natty.  Any suggestions on how to proceed?
<m_conley> easier to see:  http://i.imgur.com/K4AJ4.png
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, i haven't used the installer for a while? does it give an option to not update packages on install?
<m_conley> it does
<m_conley> and whichever I choose, same result.
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, strange. it might be worth popping on #ubuntu-devel and asking in there
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  cool, thanks
<chrisccoulson> cjwatson might have a clue about what to do :)
<jcastro> maybe using the alternate installer?
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, oh, just as i pop in there, i see they're talking about bug 701954
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 701954 in console-setup (Ubuntu Natty) "initramfs hook fails with ".: 17: Can't open /etc/default/keyboard" when /etc/default/keyboard doesn't exists for some reason" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/701954
<chrisccoulson> might be your issue ;)
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  cool, thanks for the heads up. :)
<chrisccoulson> ah, i figured out why my menu icons aren't working now :)
<MrChrisDruif> chrisccoulson: What was it?
<chrisccoulson> oh, i'm trying to figure out how to decide which icons to show in the menubar from firefox
<MrChrisDruif> Alright :)
<chrisccoulson> and i was checking the visibility attribute of some anonymous content which never gets created, because the frames for the menus are never created
<chrisccoulson> (because the menu is in the unity panel instead)
<chrisccoulson> d'oh
<chrisccoulson> so, i figured out another way instead
<MrChrisDruif> That's great :)
<chrisccoulson> so now we;ll have only icons on bookmarks, rather than everything
<MrChrisDruif> Was the UX meeting in this channel this afternoon?
<MrChrisDruif> 14:00CET afternoon I mean...
<chrisccoulson> i've no idea i'm afraid
<chrisccoulson> i don't attend them
<MrChrisDruif> I was on the Fridge agenda...
<achiang> hello, is there an indicator replacement for nm-applet in maverick?
<achiang> or do we just use nm-applet?
<achiang> looks like i'm just using nm-applet on my desktop session
<achiang> ah, and on my unity session too
<achiang> is there a replacement in natty?
#ayatana 2011-01-21
<jono> kenvandine, around?
<kenvandine> hey jono
<jono> kenvandine, hey, I don't suppose you could get those gwibber bullet points to me?
<kenvandine> yeah... i can do the bullets... i got consumed with fixing GIR generation and doc generation...
<kenvandine> jono, i'll do it tonight
<kenvandine> sorry about that
<jono> thanks kenvandine!
<jono> I am trying to get everyone wrapped up this week
<kenvandine> jono, i also got access to gwibber.com to post the gwibber api docs and all
<kenvandine> plus i added an awesome gwibber user-guide written by the vancouver loco
<kenvandine> they are amazing!
<jono> kenvandine, sweet!
<jono> kenvandine, if you could mail me the bullet points that would be cool, or just add them to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntudeveloperportal/+bug/702393
<jono> ok, I am grabbing good
<jono> back later
<kenvandine> have food good :-D
<MacSlow> greetings folks
<kamstrup> Kaleo: I added a check in libunity for gobject-introspection
<nnnaji> hello Ayatana..
<nnnaji> trying to build indicator-me
<nnnaji> i'm facing ftbfs over and over again
<nnnaji> natty, maverick
<nnnaji> sudo apt-get build-dep indicator-me            didn't help me
<nnnaji> does anybody know how to get a poor guy like me started?
<nnnaji> i would like to build this on maverick
<nnnaji> i keep getting
<nnnaji> No package 'dbusmenu-glib-0.4' found
<nnnaji> No package 'dbusmenu-gtk-0.4' found
<nnnaji> what am i missing?
<nnnaji> any help on how to get over these two would be greatly appreciated!
<nnnaji> kenvandine .. *ping* :S
<nnnaji> kenvandine .. could this be related to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libindicate/+bug/684949 ?
<ion> I guess itâs known that unity-2d-launcherâs buttons donât respond to clicks in the left-hand side corner of the screen?
<ion> (Do unity-2d and unity-3d really share that little code?)
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: had time to have a look at that branch yet ?
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: nope, just got up
<Kaleo> nerochiaro: working a bit on something else
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: ok, no worries
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: keep forgetting about the time zones
<didrocks> Kaleo: FYI, new places pushed in natty
<Kaleo> didrocks: AWESOME
<didrocks> Kaleo: why did you add unity2d to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/704231 ?
<didrocks> Kaleo: it's a compiz bug, weird that you are affected with metacity
<Kaleo> didrocks: because we have the same bug in our code
<Kaleo> didrocks: :)
<didrocks> Kaleo: "fun" :-)
<didrocks> Kaleo: stop trying to make unity2d *too* similar to unity3d :)
<Kaleo> didrocks: ;)
<ion> Might i humbly ask why unity-2d and unity-3d arenât the same thing with a layer of abstraction for the respective rendering methods? :-)
<ogra> sure, nobody will stop you from asking :)
<kklimonda> most likely it would take more time to do that the right way (I remember people talking about making compiz do that, but it wasn't ready). This way they can make it ready for tests for 11.04, and what really counts is the result, not the code.
<Kaleo> ion: Compiz has a 2D backend in the works that only rely on XRender
<Kaleo> ion: but it's not ready yet
<Kaleo> ion: that would solve the window management aspect of things
<ion> ogra: :-)
<Kaleo> relies*
<ogra> XRender wont help on xfbdev based sessions btw
<ion> I wouldnât mind getting to try the 3D version as well, as soon as nux doesnât crash on fglrx. :-)
<ogra> i.e. all arm devices that dont have the proprieatry drivers installed
<Kaleo> didrocks: the place packages kept the same names as before?
<didrocks> Kaleo: yes, it's just built, not yet published
<didrocks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-place-files/0.5.34-0ubuntu1
<didrocks> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-place-applications/0.2.28-0ubuntu1
<Kaleo> didrocks: ah, right :)
<ogra> Kaleo, i'm wondering about the autostart dir (and the file in it) in unity-2d-default-settings, i thought we dont even install that applet anymore
<ogra> do we really need that file to hide it ?
<ion> Are application menus simply not yet implemented in unity-2d, or am i encountering a bug?
<ion> kaleo: Btw, i take it it has been noticed that the launcher buttons donât respond to clicks in the far left corner of the screen?
<ogra> didrocks, ^^^ i see NoDisplay=true and OnlyShowIn=XFCE; in /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-volume-control-applet.desktop, i suppose we dont specifically need an additional .desktop file to hide it in natty, right ?
<ogra> (unity-2d-default-settings ships a .desktop file containing Hidden=true)
<Kaleo> ogra: I suppose not
<ogra> great, thats the only subdir in that package :)
<Kaleo> ion: "launcher buttons donât respond to clicks in the far left corner of the screen" no, what do you mean?
<Kaleo> ion: application menus?
<didrocks> ogra: no, you don't
<ogra> perfect
<ion> The colorful square icons in the vertical bar canât be clicked by moving the mouse to the left hand side of the screen. You have to move the mouse a few pixels to the right first.
<smspillaz> njpatel: didrocks: the issue I have is that there isn't a way to differentiate between "I pressed super because I wanted the launcher" and "I pressed super because I wanted to do some other combo-keybinding and I just happened to press super first, wtf are you doing"
<smspillaz> njpatel: the only way I can really think of avoiding this case is to disable the passive grab when the launcher is actually visible, but then you'll lose the ability to quick hide the launcher again by pressing super in rapid succession
<njpatel> smspillaz, tbh, I really don't care for natty :)
<smspillaz> njpatel: yeah, I know there are more important things
<smspillaz> njpatel: but I still think that it should be flagged that grabbing up an entire modifier tree is in gross violation of Ice Cubed :)
<njpatel> smspillaz, heh, file a bug but, yeah, we'll see that for natty +1
<smspillaz> njpatel: ok
<smspillaz> njpatel: just an FYI then, see http://tronche.com/gui/x/icccm/sec-6.html#s-6.5, basically it's a case of X faffing about and not setting the standard that the super key *is* actually reserved for window management functions, so it says that we have to provide some way to allow buggy clients to recieve those events *sigh*
<njpatel> he
<njpatel> heh*
<njpatel> figures
<Kaleo> ion: it's not reported yet, please report it :)
<ion> Alright, will do.
<Kaleo> ion: and what did you mean by application menus?
<Kaleo> ion: thanks
<ion> The $UBUNTU_MENUPROXY thing. Gtk windows donât seem to have menus at all. Hovering over the top bar doesnât seem to reveal them.
<Kaleo> ion: that's a bug, it's implemented and working here
<ion> Ok
<smspillaz> njpatel: hencing proving that once again that the ICCCM is still of use to absolutely nobody
<Kaleo> too many Cs
<njpatel> smspillaz, we'll axe it when we have some spare cycles ;)
<smspillaz> njpatel: :p
<smspillaz> Kaleo: ICCCM is actually just a set of rules designed to be broken. it's ridiculous :/
<ogra> didrocks, so i renamed unity-2d.session to ubuntu-2d.session now, but i cant really rename the .desktop file for /usr/share/xsessions (since gnome-2d.desktop already exists) ... do you think just renaming .session is enough ?
<didrocks> ogra: no, it should be 2d-ubuntu.session to match upstream (GNOME-way) naming of session file
<ogra> oh, ok
<didrocks> ogra: no need to rename in /usr/share/xsessions/, just ensure you match the .session file name :)
<ogra> didrocks, what about other files, anything else that needs renaming ?
<ogra> ah, k
<didrocks> no, just make the change and ensure the desktop file can be translated
<didrocks> (not a big bugger for now)
<ogra> k
<Kaleo> ogra: so, in the end what's the bzr branch for unity-2d-default-settings in natty?
<ogra> hmm, i suppose X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=gnome-session-2.0 should rather be X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=unity-2d
<ogra> Kaleo, https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/unity-2d/unity-2d-default-settings-natty-release
<Kaleo> ogra: I see, any reason for the -release?
<ogra> Kaleo, but i'll merge the files into the unity-2d-natty-release branch ... and to not conflict with trunl i think i'll put them into the debian dir if you dont object
<ogra> Kaleo, consistency with NCommanders other branches
<Kaleo> ogra: oh, great
<Kaleo> ogra: but wait
<Kaleo> what is unity-2d-natty-release
<ogra> thats the package branch, NCommander will merge that with trunk regualry
<Kaleo> ogra: so we have a package branch now
<ogra> (talk to him about all the natty-release branches)
<Kaleo> ogra: what's the point of having them if we have debian/ in trunk?
<Kaleo> ogra: or what's the point of having debian/ in trunk if we have them?
<ogra> ask NCommander :P
<ogra> feel free to drop debian from trunk
<dbarth_> API: ping? hey alejandro; did the at-spi2 vs 1 thing land on time for the release this week?
<dbarth_> API: just curious if some of the issues i was having will also be fixed with the current build
<API> dbarth_, hi,
<API> don't know
<API> I have just applied the patch on upstream
<API> and notified the people on the list
<API> as I said, I'm not used to the internal packaging machineries
<API> I think that TheMuso was working on that
<dbarth_> hmm, so probalby not, since it has another part in an upstream; but i guess it will soon be integrated into ubuntu
<dbarth_> ok, cool
<dbarth_> anyway, the main bridge loader issue is fixed irregardless, so that's fine
<API> anyway, if the change is not applied
<API> and you are usint at-spi
<dbarth_> (the hangs i was getting earlier at the beginning of january)
<API> unity will just avoid to load the bridge
<API> and just printing some warnings
<dbarth_> ah, so nothing will show up on accerciser
<API> "no bridge loaded" and so on
<API> yes
<API> but at least
<API> we will avoid a wrong bridge-loading
<API> due gtk_init
<Amaranth> wow, that's quite a memory leak from the dash :/
<kamstrup> seb128: when do we stop pulling new package version in?
<seb128> kamstrup, new version of what for what serie?
 * kamstrup asking because he needs https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=638929 in gobject-introspection
<seb128> kamstrup, oh, GNOME, several weeks don't worry
<seb128> it's likely that pitti will land all the work from the hacking done this week in natty next week or so
<kamstrup> seb128: kewl,
<kamstrup> wicked
<seb128> or get kenvandine to backport things, he will probably want that if that unblock his gee hacking
<seb128> dee
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> kamstrup, i'll look at it
<kenvandine> i am hacking on gobject-introspection right now actually :)
<kamstrup> kenvandine: i am this close >< to having dee fully working with GI, now I just have problems because signals are marshalled with the old pygobject codepath and everything else is using GI
<kamstrup> this causes some type hickups
<kenvandine> :)
<kamstrup> other than that adding and modifying rows works like a charm
<kenvandine> kamstrup, weird... this patch has a bunch of references to TpAccount
<kenvandine> must be some copy and paste from tomeo
<kamstrup> kenvandine: it's just testing code
<kenvandine> yeah, all in tests
<kamstrup> kenvandine: but in case you didn't see yet, the patch is already in git master
<kenvandine> yeah, i did
<kenvandine> trying to get it in the package... but bzr seems to be down again or something
<kamstrup> kenvandine: do you know if dbusmenu works well with pygi?
<kenvandine> don't know
<kenvandine> i suspect not :)
<kenvandine> we are going to have a lot of work todo making sure everything works with pygi :/
<kamstrup> kenvandine: ok, it's because I am working towards are future where we can bind libunity, dee, and dbusmenu. That would give super-powers to script the unity shell
<kenvandine> although maybe lots of what you have fixed will end up helping :)
 * kenvandine likes super powers
<kamstrup> kenvandine: the deal breaker right now is whether we'll have the signal marshalling ported to pygi as well
<kenvandine> that seems like a must... how could that ever work without it?
<kamstrup> kenvandine: I might have a look at that, tomeu thinks it can work similarly to how they do properties right now, so might not be that hard in fact
<kenvandine> cool
<kamstrup> kenvandine: i ownder that too :-)
<kamstrup> wonder
<kenvandine> kamstrup, just FYI, but i found out that valac can produce the GIR at compile time
<kenvandine> so you don't need g-ir-scanner for vala libraries :)
<kamstrup> kenvandine: yeah, i'm using that for libunity. it's awesome - but you still need to compile the typelib
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> wish i knew!
<kenvandine> it was killing me... :)
<kenvandine> but now of course there is no useful way to generate docs
<kenvandine> hopefully this gobject-introspection girdoc branch i am playing with really works
<nmarques> guys anyone has clue what can be triggering this behavior on clutk reported on lp: #695823 ?
<didrocks> tedg: hey, any idea why if I export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 ; killall nautilus && nautilus (and see that the nautilus currently running is the one from the command line, not one spawn by the session), I get no menu (sub) for a nautilus window, but still the full menus for the desktop?
<tedg> didrocks, Uhm, probably because my nautilus patch doesn't check for the env. variable? :)
<tedg> didrocks, I'm surprised it works though, I guess the .so still gets loaded?
<didrocks> tedg: you mean debian/patches/16_desktop_menu_export.patch, right? I even tried commenting it and build && install and I still get the menu there (but only for the desktop), can it be cached somewhere?
<tedg> didrocks, Well, it gets cached -- oh, perhaps it's not getting cleared.... do the menus work?
<didrocks> tedg: no they don't :)
<didrocks> so make sense :) how to delete the cache?
<tedg> didrocks, killall unity-panel-service
<didrocks> tedg: ah, way better, thanks :)
<didrocks> tedg: you were about getting me crazy :)
<kenvandine> kamstrup, btw i did upload the gobject-introspection with that patch
<mterry> With latest unity, I'm getting an odd bug where parts of the upper left of my screen are not clickable until I open and dismiss the dash.  Is this a reported bug?
<aruiz> kamstrup, ping
<tareth> mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/705672
<mterry> tareth, thanks.  Wasn't sure how to search for it.  :)
<tareth> I just happened to have that one open
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, did you have any luck getting natty set up yet?
<chrisccoulson> (i also hang out in #ubuntu-mozillateam btw, which is quite low traffic)
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: hey!  No luck yesterday, trying again today.  Will let you know how it goes.  :)
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, i'll try it now, just to see if i hit the same sorts of issues
<chrisccoulson> i haven't done a new install in a long time ;)
<chrisccoulson> it's probably about time i did one!
<chrisccoulson> my machine just gets more and more broken over time ;)
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  I guess it's hard to work on a car you're driving in.  :)
<chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, that's true :)
<chrisccoulson> oh, virtualbox feels weird with the menubar in it's own window ;)
<m_conley> argh
<m_conley> :p
<dbarth> kenvandine: wow, the one for the docs?
<didrocks> tedg: ok, I'm completely puzzled with the desktop menu, even removing your patch still makes the desktop nautilus menu to be exportedâ¦
<tedg> didrocks, No, that's impossible.  You're confused :)
<dbarth> didrocks: appmenu-gtk is really powerful
<tedg> didrocks, Why are you playing with the desktop menu anyway?  Is there an issue?
<didrocks> tedg: a bug report your team was subscribed: bug #692194 :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 692194 in nautilus (Ubuntu Natty) "Desktop menu adjustments for Natty" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692194
<didrocks> tedg: I wanted to give it a try to help you seeing the other patch and thinking it was just a question of hiding the right menuitems
<didrocks> I'm sure there is a cache somewhere, in addition to unity-panel-service making me crazy
<tedg> No, I'm pretty sure that's the only cache.
<didrocks> let's try logout/login
<didrocks> hum, still thereâ¦
<didrocks> tedg: hum, I still I'll let this as it is for now. Even removing your patch still exports the desktop menu after logout/loginâ¦
<didrocks> so maybe appmenu-gtk is doing it now
<didrocks> and hiding items aren't reflected anyway
<tedg> My patch is more powerful than your simple efforts to remove it.
<didrocks> seems so :)
<lamalex> tedg, what projects have you worked on triaging?
<lamalex> :) it stoppped snowing
<kenvandine> lamalex, snowing... it is looking like spring here, gorgeous
<lamalex> Yeah.. it looks like Maine here :P
<didrocks> tedg: so, I removed you patch for exporting the desktop nautilus menu, add some debugging in the same function (it's actually called), logout and login in the ubuntu-classic sessionâ¦ and the desktop menu is exported
<didrocks> tedg: so, either the patch is not needed anymore and the menu is exported by another mean by appmenu-gtk and not by the direct call or the patch, or there is a ghost in my laptop
<tedg> lamalex, I did indicator-applicaiton, I was thinking of doing dbusmenu next.
<didrocks> tedg: I checked for the ghost, no sign of it :)
<tedg> didrocks, I'm voting ghost :)  The window doesn't get created the same way, so I'd be surprised that appmenu-gtk would pick it up.
<tedg> didrocks, If it does, that's great, but it seems odd.
<didrocks> tedg: I can built the version in a ppa if you want to ensure yourself :) (well, you can as well comment the patch in debian/patches/series)
<tedg> didrocks, The menus are never really created.
<didrocks> tedg: what do you mean?
<tedg> didrocks, They're never attached to the desktop window -- which is what appmenu-gtk looks for.
<didrocks> tedg: hum, but a nautilus desktop window is a nautilus window first, isn't it? (that's what I see in the code) and so, it should be attached the same way?
<didrocks> tedg: like if I uncomment the gtk_widget_hide(NAUTILUS_WINDOW(window)->details->menubar), I can see them (and hidden automatically if appmenugtk is loaded)
<lamalex> tedg, im doing dbusmenu now
<lamalex> it has very few bugs :P
<tedg> lamalex, Damn it, I'll find something else then :)
<tedg> didrocks, Ah, hmm, cool.  That'd be cool if they weren't needed.... I swear it didn't work before I wrote the patch :)
<didrocks> tedg: maybe nautilus changed a little bit. Now I need to figure out why hiding /MenuBar/File get me a gtk_widget, but this one doesn't want to hide
<didrocks> tedg: I guess you are respecting the hidden value in appmenu, isn't it? (IIRC, that's how I did in gtkrecordmydesktop)
<tedg> didrocks, yeah, we should be.
<didrocks> tedg: ok, I'll give it another try next week and see what can be done. Otherwise, I'll surely ask you for help :)
<lamalex> tedg, want to review these patches? https://bugs.launchpad.net/dbusmenu/+bug/690668
<lamalex> the libindicate one appears to be fixed already
<lamalex> but indicator-messages looks worth looking at
<lamalex> and looking at dbus menu now
<kenvandine> tedg, have you had a change to look at the dupe items in the messaging menu yet?
<lamalex> DBO, jason any news on that nux bug for multimonitor?
<jcastro> top panel is still not multimonitor aware. :(
<lamalex> nor is launcher
<lamalex> the launcher is the one that kills me
<lamalex> the panel is annoying, the launcher is some level of unusable
<jcastro> my launcher shows up on the proper screen
<lamalex> jcastro, it's not that
<lamalex> if you have two monitors of different sizes, and the launcher is on the smaller on, it doesn't fold based on the height of the smaller, it uses the larger so that some icons are unreahable
<jcastro> oh, that one
 * jcastro nods
<chrisccoulson> nice, unity in virtualbox :)
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, i got the latest daily to work ok here
<m_conley> chrisccoulson:  hey - nice!  Actually, so it turns out it might be a problem with the host machine over here
<m_conley> the SSD in it just died
 * m_conley sighs
<chrisccoulson> m_conley, oh, just as i tried to reply to you there, Xorg died ;)
<m_conley> we're having all the OS luck today
<m_conley> :p
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<nmarques> anyone I can have a small talk regarding LP685682 ?
<kenvandine> yah... gi fixes make dee sort of work from python now!
<kenvandine> just can't require a signal for anything :)
#ayatana 2011-01-22
<hyperair> hmm what's this canonical contributor agreement?
<spikeb> a bit of stomach turning legalese.
<hyperair> it looks slightly dubious
<hyperair> i mean it's not that i don't trust canonical to act responsibly, but i don't feel comfortable with clause 3
 * spikeb isn't very comfortable with it either
<hyperair> 3. The term "Software" refers to all computer programs created as part of a Canonical programme listed at http://
<hyperair> canonical.com/contributors as amended from time to time (including, without limitation, all source code, object
<hyperair> code, and screen displays in the user interface) and related documentation including the copyright which I
<hyperair> acknowledge is owned by Canonical Ltd ("Canonical").
<hyperair> "as amended from time to time"
<hyperair> which means it can be amended from tiem to time without my knowledge, and my signing of this agreement will automatically apply to the new projects added there
<hyperair> i don't think i'm comfortable with that at all.
<spikeb> there's already been an outcry on the internet over the contributor agreement and they canonical didn't budge, so you're basically stuck signing it or not contributing too much.
 * spikeb sighs
<ion> Meh. Inserting appmenu to unity-2d-panelâs list of indicators to be loaded causes it to crash.
<ion> (Iâm probably doing it wrongâ¢.)
<ion> kaleo: You said you have appmenu working in unity-2d. I take it itâs okay for panel/applets/indicator/indicator.c:380 not to have appmenu? const gchar *indicator_names[] = { "application", "messaging", "soundmenu", "datetime", "me", "session", 0 };
<nysosym> hi there
<ion> kaleo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/706183
<Kaleo> hi ion
<ion> Hi :-)
<Kaleo> ion: the appmenu is supposed to be there and you should not have to touch the code at all
<Kaleo> ion: if it's not there it's a bug somewhere
<Kaleo> ion: it works for me on Maverick
<Kaleo> ion: are you on Natty?
<Kaleo> ion: (it was working on Natty last week but something might have broken it)
<ion> Natty, yes.
<ion> bzr get lp:unity-2d && grep -r appmenu unity-2d
<ion> The only place itâs even mentioned in the source seems to be the indocator_order array which doesnât seem to be connected to what gets loaded at all.
<Kaleo> ion: it's in the appname applet
<Kaleo> ion: unity-2d/panel/applets/appname/
<Kaleo> menubarwidget.h
<ion> Ah, ok.
<ion> Where are the maverick packages for unity-2d? I could try them.
<ion> Ah, https://launchpad.net/~unity-2d-team/+archive/unity-2d-daily
<ion> Meh, those are named and versioned differently than the packages in natty. The -default-settings package has a significantly lower version number in the PPA, and unity-2d is split into multiple packages in natty.
<Kaleo> ion: no you are reading things wrong
<Kaleo> ion: what you see on that webpage is the list of source packages
<Kaleo> ion: which is unity-2d and unity-2d-default-settings essentially
<ion> Ah, indeed, my bad.
<Kaleo> ion: the binary packages resulting from them are numerous
<Kaleo> ion: the content of the maverick and natty packages are quite synchronised
<ion> For instance, unity-2d-launcher in natty: 3.2-0ubuntu1; in the PPA: 0.4-0ubuntu1~bzr378. *Thatâs* why it wouldnât upgrade.
<Kaleo> ion: upgrade?
<Kaleo> ion: what upgrade?
<Kaleo> ion: it's different version numbers but the content for now is mostly the same
<ion> I just expected the PPA to have daily snapshots, i.e. most likely newer code than whatâs in natty. Thus, i expected adding the PPA and doing an aptitude safe-upgrade to switch to the PPA packages. My expectations were wrong.
<Kaleo> ion: right
<Kaleo> ion: the ppa is for Maverick only atm
<Kaleo> ion: daily builds for natty will come soon
<Kaleo> ion: in the same ppa
<ion> Alright
<Kaleo> ion: unity-2d has been in Natty for 9 days :)
<Kaleo> ion: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/706184 I replied there
<ion> Iâm not encountering that bug.
<ion> Ah, i see your reply to the other one. :-)
<ion> Thanks
<Kaleo> ion: you are welcome
<vocx> Eto... this doesn't really concern Unity, but anybody lives in Europe, Germanay perhaps? I know there was a recent sprint in Dallas, TX, so I was wondering if somebody could talk to me about their experience taking a flight from Dallas or Houston to Germanay. I wanna go to Munich, specifically.
#ayatana 2011-01-23
<smspillaz> coz_: are you running an install of compiz 0.9 atm ?
<coz_> smspillaz,   I have it installed
<coz_> want me to fire it up?
<smspillaz> coz_: I'm just wondering if you hit this issue where menus go underneath other things
<coz_> ok its running
<smspillaz> but they are still functional, just obscured
<coz_> ah not yet no  the only issue I am seeing is that I cannot get into certin plugin settings  like Animations
<smspillaz> since I _cannot_ reproduce it (but I've seen it in person on other people's machines) and it's driving me nuts ;-)
<coz_> smspillaz,   do you want me to log into Unity for t his?
<smspillaz> coz_: it should happen with or without unity
<coz_> smspillaz,  yikes
<smspillaz> coz_: you're running nvidia right ?
<coz_> smspillaz, ok then its not happening here  just the inability to get into a few plugins settings
<coz_> yep
<smspillaz> coz_: I'll look at the plugin settings soon I guess
<smspillaz> coz_: can you try changing the screen resolution and see if your stackign goes out of whack ?
<coz_> let me lighten the theme to see if menus are opening up underneathe hold on
<coz_> ok
<smspillaz> since ISTR this happening on my machine a while ago but I can't reproduce it at the moment
<coz_> ok let me change resolutions hold on
<smspillaz> thanks
<coz_> smspillaz,  no nothing odd ocurring here
<smspillaz> urgh
<smspillaz> ok
<smspillaz> I'm going to send a mail out to triagers then to try and figure out what's going on
<coz_> smspillaz,  gee I now  feel bad I cant reproduce this :)
<smspillaz> it's worse when you're the one trying to fix the bug that's annoying everyone and you can't reproduce it ;-
<smspillaz> ;-)
<coz_> smspillaz,  if I see this  start I will immediately let you know  ..
<coz_> :)
<smspillaz> yeah
<smspillaz> I need a reproducable test case though
<smspillaz> since the way to reproduce it on other people's machines doesn't work here
<spikeb> use other people's machines to fix it!
<spikeb> </bright idea>
<coz_> smspillaz,  ok I will continue to play with this to see if it happens here
<smspillaz> spikeb: unfortunately the time to do that has come and gone ;-)
<spikeb> darn
<smspillaz> I had a chance to do that at the sprint, but this is when I could reproduce this issue - but I was working on other things
<smspillaz> and I thought the bug was trivial :)
<coz_> smspillaz,  ooo   damn...ok    well  if it happens I will  let you know
<smspillaz> coz_: thanks :)
<coz_> smspillaz,   no problem :)
<smspillaz> coz_: let me know if you can get a test case from launching compiz to the bug happening
<coz_> smspillaz,  will do
<smspillaz> :)
<smspillaz> coz_: quick heads up - there's a similar looking bug where you trigger a menu to "create" and it doesn't appear till you hover over it. That's a bug in X and has been fixed already, so watch out for the one where the menu appears but you can't interact with it.
<coz_> smspillaz,  ok  cool thanks
<coz_> making notes of this  :)
<smspillaz> :)
<kklimonda> bah, unity (or perhaps compiz) really slows games down :/
<spikeb> uh oh
<spikeb> i was afraid of that
<kklimonda> so was I, but it still sucks to confirm that ;)
<spikeb> might have to put the 2D version on my mom's computer then, if the slowdown is too drastic. she games
<RAOF> kklimonda: Have you tried turning âunredirect fullscreen windowsâ on?  Without that (a) you'll have the Composite overhead, and (b) output will be sync'd to vblank.
<kklimonda> RAOF: thanks, I'll try that.
<kklimonda> I thought this option was default already?
<RAOF> No; it breaks things.
<ion> On my system (with fglrx) anything started from compiz seems to have LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1, which makes them slow even if âunredirect fullscreen windowsâ is on.
<kklimonda> RAOF: ah thanks, it does seem faster now
<RAOF> kklimonda: unredirect fullscreen windows should really be on, but it would require X to have some knowledge of *actual* fullscreen windows, rather than windows which just happen to be the same size as the screen.
#ayatana 2012-01-16
<hawks008> hi all, who can i contact (that is part of the ubuntu team) for adding a wallpaper set for next release of ubuntu?
<hawks008> oh no....wrong irc...sorry all
<hawks008> forget i was even here
<hawks008> :P
<hawks008> anyone know where the ubuntu dev ten irc is?
<hawks008> *team
<snadge> ok focus problem still there
<om26er> bschaefer, hey!
<bschaefer> om26er, hey
<bschaefer> om26er_,, hey
<om26er_> bschaefer, het
<om26er_> oops
<om26er_> bschaefer, how are you?
<bschaefer> no worries
<bschaefer> om26er_, very angry at ibus
<om26er_> oooh :/
<bschaefer> om26er_, how about you?
<om26er_> bschaefer, i am a bit sleepy but i am fine :)
<om26er_> bschaefer, you were looking into bug 839480
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 839480 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dash - When the Dash is open and there is a maximised app in the background, the top bar background should not disappear" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839480
<om26er_> still working on it?
<bschaefer> om26er_, yeah, I was waiting for Jay to get back from break to help with the finishing touches
<om26er_> bschaefer, alrighty, i was wondering if you stopped on it you might want to link a branch for it so if anyother interested party could look
<om26er_> bschaefer, good to know its not lost :)
<bschaefer> om26er_, yeah Ill do that, ill have to update it as it is really behind trunk!
<bschaefer> om26er_, another reason is Jay mentioned it had a lot of problems (the source) and was going to look at it
<snadge> fix the focus bug
<om26er_> bschaefer, good to know, thx
<snadge> i was going to report it.. but i can't reliably reproduce it
<om26er_> snadge, a video maybe?
<snadge> so its a bit useless to say.. sometimes when you click in the location bar in firefox, it doesnt auto complete
<bschaefer> om26er_, yup! Good luck on resting up
<snadge> unless you refocus the app
<snadge> also i noticed another glitch.. sometimes when you right click, then move the mouse over the menu
<snadge> it disappears
<snadge> unless you refocus the app.. its probably related
<om26er_> snadge, i saw it a few times as well
<om26er> also dont know how to reproduce
<snadge> i suppose we could just randomly video the entire desktop
<snadge> and then chop it up and edit it when it happens.. but that sounds beyond my effort level / ability
<snadge> it also doesnt really help the maintainer reproduce it either
<snadge> id certainly like this one to be nailed before precise goes gold
<snadge> smspillaz has a bunch of unreleased code atm ?
<bschaefer> andyrock, hey how was your trip?
<andyrock> bschaefer, it was awesome :=
<andyrock> :)
<andyrock> i love Budapest
<bschaefer> haha, nice. Have a safe trip home?
<andyrock> yeah, even if I left Budapest at 6:00 AM
<andyrock> and the hotel at 4:00 am
<bschaefer> andyrock, Dam that sucks. Thats when my flight for the UDS was; at 5 am. Sucked, but still fun
<andyrock> bschaefer, yeah but Budapest is full of girls, Orlando is full of Hotels :)
<bschaefer> andyrock, haha that does sound nicer
<andyrock> bschaefer, indeed
<andyrock> we'll have fun in San Francisco too
<bschaefer> is that where the next one is?
<andyrock> the next uds
<andyrock> yeah
<bschaefer> nice, that is in my time zone haha
<bschaefer> thumper, ping. Somewhat of a so so news on the bus problem
<bschaefer> thumper, still an ibus problem, but that patch doesn't fix the dash only other programs
<bschaefer> if the use the ibus through XIM
<bschaefer> they*
<smspillaz> snadge: so chrisccoulson found a way to reproduce that bug
<smspillaz> so I'll look into it maybe this week?
<bschaefer> hey smspillaz, enjoy Budapest more this time?
<snadge> smspillaz: rad.. can you forward or pastebin the instructions to reproduce?
<snadge> and can you guess whether the right click bug is related to that?
<smspillaz> I can't remember them off the top of my head, but I definitely know that chris was telling me this at the pub last friday
<snadge> lol of course.. at the pub, where all bugs are fixed
<smspillaz> something to do with workspace switching
<smspillaz> which I guess is fair game since workspace switching will move the input focus to the root window temporarily
<snadge> yeah i think it is related to that.. it most often happens when switching from another workspace to the app
<snadge> so that will be related to the right click bug then
<snadge> which is.. right click menu pops up as expected, but then when you move the mouse over it.. it disappears.. and this happens repeatedly until you manually click on the title bar to focus the app
<snadge> but again.. difficult to reproduce consistently
<snadge> confirmed that both problems happen at the same time ;)
<snadge> ok if i switch between this irc window and my browser window.. its exhibiting the problem
<snadge> is there some debugging info i can grab now that might help?
<om26er> didrocks, hey, i have a backport for a NUX fix, could you please sponsor
<om26er> https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/oneiric/nux/sru-819721
<om26er> fixes bug 819721
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 819721 in nux (Ubuntu Oneiric) "quicklists not accessible for the first time just after login" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/819721
 * om26er mistakenly pressed ctrl+w :p
<didrocks> om26er: hey, we discussed it with Tim and when he will be back, we will see if any other nux fixes need to  be backported
<om26er> didrocks, ok.
<om26er> seb128, any reason the compiz SRU is still not uploaded ?
<om26er> and Hey!
<seb128> om26er, dunno, it's your SRU, did you subscribe sponsors to the bugs?
<om26er> seb128, yeah Ubuntu sponsors is subscribed, i guess now that everyone is back from the rally it'll get a look
<om26er> btw https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/oneiric/compiz/compiz-sru/+merge/85928
<seb128> likely
<seb128> trying pinging stgraber, he's pilot today
<om26er> Kaleo, hey! i have a branch for bug 900063
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 900063 in metacity (Ubuntu) "20_do_not_place-windows-over-the-launcher.patch is not being applied, adversely affects unity-2d" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/900063
<om26er> https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/precise/metacity/fix-900063/+merge/86852
<om26er> who is the maintainer for metacity ?
<Kaleo> om26er: great!
<Kaleo> om26er: can you give that to nerochiaro? I think he wrote the original patch
<nerochiaro> Kaleo: IIRC oSoMoN wrote it
<om26er> yes Olly wrote it, it was not added to the series file
<Kaleo> om26er: oSoMoN then :)
<om26er> i made two branches one for sru and other for precise
 * oSoMoN confirms that he wrote the initial patch
 * om26er thinks ogra does the uploads for metacity ?
<oSoMoN> note that the patch will have to be adapted to take into account RTL locales, as it currently only considers the possibility of having a launcher on the left edge of the screen
<nerochiaro> greyback: remember the issue discussed above ? i have a sense of deja vu about it...
<greyback> nerochiaro: yeah? How so?
<greyback> nerochiaro: oh, reading up now :)
<greyback> nerochiaro: yeah, I need to get Metacity work done.
<nerochiaro> greyback: i suppose at least for SRU it's just a matter of adding the patch to the series and poking whoever is responsible for releasing it, no ?
<greyback> nerochiaro: There's a bit more to it I believe, but that's essentially it. It's just to find out who maintains Metacity and get them to help
<Kaleo> greyback: Isuppose at least for SRU it's just a matter of adding the patch to the series and poking whoever is  responsible for releasing[B
<Kaleo> please ignore that erroneous copy/paste :)
<greyback> Kaleo: np :) What did you want to tell me?
<Kaleo> greyback: nothing at all :)
<greyback> Kaleo: oh ok :)
<mgedmin> bamf totally ignores my gvim window :(
<jasox> what is bamf
<jasox> Bas Ass Mother Fucker :D
<jasox> why don't you install qt-vim, if you are using unity or kde
<mgedmin> bamf is a window matching library that unity uses to figure out which windows belong to which apps; I've no idea what the letters stand for
<mgedmin> I don't think a qt port of vim exists, and if it did, I'm not sure I would like it
<jasox> http://code.google.com/p/vim-qt/, I installed this and it works much better than gvim for me :S
<davidcalle> andyrock, awesome work on the shortcuts overlay!
<andyrock> davidcalle, thx you
<AlanBell> is that in precise yet?
<Daekdroom> AlanBell, nope
<AlanBell> ok
#ayatana 2012-01-17
<h31> Hello. How to use Ayatana mailing list?
<dbarth> bye #ayatana, welcome #ubuntu-unity
<thumper> all... general Unity discussions moving to #ubuntu-unity
 * thumper heading for a flight
<thumper> can someone update the topic?
<mhr3> davidcalle, hope you dont mind if we co-host the lenses session :)
<davidcalle> mhr3, of course I don't. I would enjoy it :)
<mhr3> davidcalle, cool i just mentioned if to dholback
<mhr3> s/if/it/
<kamstrup> bilal: awesome work on the USC integration. Can't wait to land it :-)
<mhall119> oh, he changed his nick did he?  no wonder I couldn't ever find him
<mhall119> kamstrup: ping
<kamstrup> mhall119: pong
<mhall119> kamstrup: do you know if this warning on the Launcher API is still valid? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/LauncherAPI#Using_the_Launcher_API
<kamstrup> mhall119: the API and ABI is for all practical purposes frozen by now. Only divine (read: sabdfl) intervention can change that
<kamstrup> mhall119: so I guess the answer is "no" :-)
<kamstrup> although the disclaimer on the dbus protocol is still valid I guess
<kamstrup> that is not part of the public api
<mhall119> is everything here on the wiki duplicated on the developer portal?
<mhall119> or parts of it that we can replace with a link to the dev portal docs?
<mhall119> kamstrup: ^^ ?  I'd like to clean that up, since it was pointed out on a comment in my blog that we're giving developers the wrong information
<kamstrup> oh
<kamstrup> i don't know much about the stuff on the dev portal, that is updated by dpm afaik
<mhall119> kamstrup: ok, for now is it okay if I remove the warning on the Launcher API (but leave the one on DBus)?
<kenvandine> kamstrup, any ideas why row-added is broken with pygi?  it has never worked
<kenvandine> TypeError: Expected Dee.ModelIter, but got StructMeta
<mhall119> didrocks: ping
<didrocks> hey mhall119
<mhall119> hey didrocks, jcastro was telling me that you had a community contributor make a significant patch to Unity that sped things up for Unity 5.0, and he asked me to blog about that
<mhall119> would you be able to shoot me an email with the contributor's name, link to the rev/mp, and a description of what it did?
<mhall119> also his email, so I can contact him for a photo and bio
<didrocks> mhall119: oh sure, doing that in 10 minutes :)
<didrocks> (just need to finish testing file-roller first)
<mhall119> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> yw :)
<kamstrup> mhall119: ok
<kamstrup> kenvandine: i think i had it working once... can you file a bug?
<kenvandine> sure
<kenvandine> kamstrup, thx
<kenvandine> kamstrup, bug 917761
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 917761 in dee "row-added signal isn't usable with PyGI" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917761
<mick0> davidcalle: You there? :)
<davidcalle> mick0, yup
<davidcalle> mick0, I'm pushing the packaging branch tonight. :)
<mick0> davidcalle: I've updated the spotify scope as you did with the piratebay scope.
<mick0> davidcalle: Can I find documantation on the 5.0 api anywhere?
<mick0> I don't have precise installed yet (downloading it to install it on my laptop right now) so I havent tested it yet.
<davidcalle> There is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mhr3/Lenses which is in progress I believe. And http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.04/python/Unity-5.0.html
<mick0> davidcalle: Did you get the new packaging standard working?
<mick0> Ahh nice. Thanks :)
<davidcalle> mick0, the packaging is now a bit more complicated. I will push the branch tonight.
<mick0> Ok.
<davidcalle> mick0, there will be a blog post from kamstrup about the new API, it should be helpful too (with sample code, I believe).
<mick0> Nice
<BerndSch_> davidcalle: why is the new packaging more compicated? I thought the only difference is the path /opt instead of /usr/lib?
<BerndSch_> davidcalle: I also started a branch for precise yesterday and pushed it to launchpad. But I hadn't enough time to test it. I think there are still some problems
<davidcalle> BerndSch_, because it also needs an AppArmor profile. I haven't really looked at it since I got it yesterday, it has been done by a member of the Application Review Board.
 * davidcalle is afk for a few hours.
<BerndSch_> davidcalle: ok, if I have tested my precise branch I will try to submit my lens
<davidcalle> BerndSch_, I don't know if the submissions for Precise are open yet. You might want to check with stgraber, he is the one who has guided me through the process (and done the packaging).
<bschaefer> andyrock, hey are you still up?
<andyrock> bschaefer, sure
<bschaefer> andyrock, do you ibus installed?
<andyrock> yep
<bschaefer> andyrock, well it comes with ubuntu but umm with ibus-hangul version?
<bschaefer> andyrock, I just found out something even weirder with the ibus bug...
<bschaefer> andyrock, and I wanted to see if that was happing for you. Do you also have the num pad? or are you using a laptop?
<andyrock> i enabled ibus when i tested a Trevino's branch
<andyrock> laptop
<andyrock> without num pad
<andyrock> let me check the first question
<bschaefer> andyrock, shit. well so ALL the num pad keys get commited before the preedit...
<bschaefer> so - on the left side commits fine and the - on num pad commits before the preedit!
<bschaefer> andyrock,
<bschaefer> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/880876
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 880876 in unity (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Unity causes ibus to not work correctly (spaces incorrectly placed)" [High,Confirmed]
<bschaefer> for refrence
<bschaefer> andyrock, if you done have it just sudo apt-get install ibus-hangul for the Koren input...but you dont have the num pad
<andyrock> bschaefer, can i fake the numpad with an osk?
<bschaefer> andyrock, hmm I haven't tried
<bschaefer> andyrock, i need to check the keyval of the keys too
<bschaefer> andyrock, cause now I am thinking they are different (for some reason)
<bschaefer> andyrock, yeah using the keyboard in the universal access causes the same thing
<bschaefer> andyrock, hmm interesting...I have been digging though the source of ibus and ibus-hangul for last couple days for a fix. I really want ibus to be happy with unity!
<andyrock> bschaefer, so help me to enable ibus :)
<bschaefer> andyrock, alright, so go to system settings
<bschaefer> then language support
<bschaefer> andyrock, and under keyboard input method system select ibus
<bschaefer> andyrock, and Apply system-wide
<bschaefer> andyrock, then at the command line: sudo apt-get install ibus-hangul ibus-table
<bschaefer> then reboot (yeaah annoy sorry!)
<bschaefer> annoying*
<bschaefer> or logout
<andyrock> brb
<bschaefer> alright
<bschaefer> andyrock, ok, then on the command line: ibus-setup&
<bschaefer> and add the Koren input method
<andyrock> ìë¼ë­ã¹
<bschaefer> sweet
<andyrock> awesome
<bschaefer> ok now type in Koren then when the char still is in preedit
<bschaefer> press space
<bschaefer> and that is the bug
<bschaefer> ã¹ãã´ã ã¹
<bschaefer> ãã´ë¦¬ã8ã
<bschaefer> along with num pad keys and return which is a problem too
<andyrock> ok i press
<andyrock> a
<andyrock> n
<andyrock> d
<andyrock> then space
<andyrock> and i got this
<andyrock> ë­
<andyrock> ë­
<bschaefer> right click and make sure under input method it is ibus
<bschaefer> because I patch went through to fix the ibus if you use xim and the main input method
<bschaefer> right click where you are typing text
<bschaefer> or do it in the Dash
<bschaefer> cause xim doesn't work there...
<andyrock> ok i've it in the dash i'm no longer able to get the ibus menu
<andyrock> ant this's weid
<andyrock> *weird
<andyrock> mmm
<bschaefer> shit
<bschaefer> I have a patch for that
<bschaefer> haha, the focus was removed
<bschaefer> in IMTextEntry.cpp
<bschaefer> (signal was removed)
<bschaefer> umm will try the gnome-terminal then haha
<andyrock> in the gnome-terminal
<andyrock> i get the space before
<andyrock> the symbol
<bschaefer> yeah
<bschaefer> ok now get that virtual keyboard thing up
<andyrock> ë­
<andyrock> ë¬´ìê°ì°¨
<bschaefer> your chat program is prob using XIM as its IM
<bschaefer> which uses different code in ibus
<andyrock> ok i've the osk
<bschaefer> no back in gnome-terminal try the same thing with a normal 1 and a num pad 1
<bschaefer> when I type "asd1" I get these two versions: ãã´ã1 and ãã´1ã and I just want to make sure that is happening for someone else
<bschaefer> the second one being from numpad
<andyrock> with a normal 1 i don't get the problem
<bschaefer> yeah
<andyrock> ë­1
<bschaefer> a numpad 1 or anything on the numpad should mess is up
<andyrock> indeed
<andyrock> i've tested it withoud the osk
<andyrock> fn + numlk
<andyrock> does its job
<andyrock> i get 1 and the symbol
<bschaefer> sweet, that is good to know though
<bschaefer> man this bug is very interesting...
<bschaefer> cause I am thinking the problem now is ibus-hangul when forced to handle space or num pad nums it doesn't know how to handle them
<andyrock> bschaefer, then theach it
<andyrock> ;)
<bschaefer> which forces how it process the keyval it just commits it right away instead of checking else where
<bschaefer> theach?
<bschaefer> andyrock, I am have been trying to make unity and ibus friends for months now! They just don't like each other...
<andyrock> teach
<andyrock> sorry
<andyrock> ;)
<andyrock> maybe compiz's fault?
<bschaefer> haha no problem. I haven't even been able to get gdb working with the ibus sooo all the out I am using is fprintf to a log file I set up
<bschaefer> no you can get this bug on any enviorment. Gnome, Unity 2d
<andyrock> Cimi loves printf ;)
<bschaefer> it is an ibus problem!
<andyrock> ah ok
<bschaefer> I love it too, so no complaints, it is just some of this ustring that fwprintf cant handle or printf haha
<andyrock> and why we have the bug opened against unity? o.o
<bschaefer> andyrock, no sure!
<bschaefer> not*
<andyrock> use g_debug btw
 * bschaefer looks up function
<bschaefer> thanks!
<andyrock> i don't know if it can handle wchar
<andyrock> but use (f)printf for debug is evil
<bschaefer> yeah, i the buffer
<bschaefer> using stderr helps
<bschaefer> when using fprintf it doesn't get commited to files, but using stderr forces it to print right away!
<gang65> hi
<bschaefer> doesn't get commited to files right away*
<gang65> I need some advice about Unity design
<mgedmin> fflush()?
<bschaefer> that would work too
<mgedmin> stderr is not buffered by default, iirc
<bschaefer> mgedmin, thanks, the fflush() is something I should be using anyway
<bschaefer> andyrock, and thanks for confirming that! Always help talking to some else about bugs...
<andyrock> your welcome
<andyrock> i'm not an ibus-expert :)
<andyrock> btw remove all the ibus code from unity
<andyrock> and put them directly in nux
<bschaefer> andyrock, jaytaoko is working on that
<bschaefer> andyrock, and if he can get that working with out using IBUS_ENABLE_SYNC_MODE
<bschaefer> then this wont be a problem, but im not sure how much progress he has made on it
<bschaefer> andyrock, I wish I was an ibus expert, I just keep getting assigned the ibus bugs haha
<andyrock> we have all the time to learn ;)
<bschaefer> very true! I would have to admit I do know a lot about the ibus now
<bschaefer> jaytaoko, ping if you are around! Curious on your TextEntry progress!
<andyrock> bschaefer, in budapest I told me that he want you to review iirc
<andyrock> *wants
<andyrock> *to review his code
<bschaefer> yeah, does he have a branch out?
<bschaefer> that I missed
<andyrock> bschaefer, i think not
<bschaefer> andyrock, well he +3 hours from my time zone so i should be able to catch him sometime today
<bschaefer> andyrock, now I need to make some more coffee and then back to trying to fix this ibus bug! Good luck with your work :)
<andyrock> bschaefer, struts work and keyboard navigation :(
<andyrock> *struts work = _NET_WM_STRUT_PARTIAL
<bschaefer> andyrock, haha
<AlanBell> in precise I am finding gnome-terminal and terminator windows are translucent when the unity compiz plugin is activated
<AlanBell> is this intentional behaviour? my terminal settings are set to solid colour
<mhr3> bschaefer, you wanted to work on the hint for no-results, right?
<mhr3> there are merge requests lined up for review which would finally allow you do it :)
<AlanBell> ah, looks like the panel opacity slider is controlling terminal window opacity as well as the panel
#ayatana 2012-01-18
<bschaefer> andyrock, woot, I think I fixed the space problem! (Or I am on the right track)
<bschaefer> andyrock, you are always up so late
<andyrock> eheh compiz's fault
<bschaefer> haha, I have yet to start tacking parts of that beast. Sam has told me about it before haha
<bschaefer> tackling*
<andyrock> nux is something like a beast too
<andyrock> :)
<bschaefer> yeeah, I have gone through that
<bschaefer> parts at lease
<andyrock> bschaefer, to understand/fix this bug i've lose to day 893670
<andyrock> #893670
<andyrock> and after a night in a disco
<andyrock> when i got to home
<andyrock> I was inspired
<andyrock> :)
<bschaefer> haha, let me look the bug up really quick. the bot seems to fail at parsing atm
<bschaefer> andyrock, nice!
<bschaefer> andyrock, that is about as much time as I have learning the ibus, ibus-hangul and libhangul code haha
<andyrock> cool, let me know if you fix the problem
<bschaefer> andyrock, well I have to space working correctly, because they didn't think they would be responsible for the space that gets sent to them
<bschaefer> andyrock, so the more annoying part the space is fixed in a build i have, but i want to make sure it is the correct fix :)
<andyrock> go it
<andyrock> *got it
<mick0> davidcalle: The spotify-precise branch works on precise. Just took a look at the packageing you commited yesterday.. Will start on that this evening.
<davidcalle> mick0, great! I will give it a try when I'm on my Precise install.
<mick0> davidcalle: I think I have to change the recepie for the other branch to not include precise as it does not have the unity 5.0 changes?
<davidcalle> mick0, you just need to create another recipe and when you build : one with Precise, the other with Oneiric. The recipe itself does not change, you can copy-paste it.
<mick0> ok
<mick0> davidcalle: btw, I still saw the album art not loading bug when testing on precise.
<davidcalle> mick0, http://www.grillbar.org/wordpress/?p=585
<davidcalle> mick0, I know, I don't think that gord had the time to look at the issue. I hope it will work fine on the release.
<mick0> Oh ok.
<gord> nope not had time yet, was sprinting last week, maybe next week
<mick0> davidcalle: That was a good blog post! Will try out the cancellable thing later instead of thaw. Have to run to a lecture now.
<davidcalle> Indeed! Have fun :)
<noordung> Hi guys. I'm writing an application that needs to know whether an AppMenu is active and being used. How can I detect that?
<kamstrup> JohnLea: hey, good progress on lenses in the home screen, it is basically working, just one question
<kamstrup> on the category names
<kamstrup> from the files lens we pull in "Recent" and "Downloads" and from the apps lens we pull in "Recently Used". The two "Recent*" are inelegantly similar
<kamstrup> should I change to "Recent Files" and "Recent Apps" (or "Recent Applications" - it might be overly hip to call it "Apps"? :-))
<kamstrup> mhr3: incidentally... I have a rather complex thing to test out today... requiring someone on the unity team with jhbuild skills... (someone != /me)
<kamstrup> hint hint
<mhr3> kamstrup, yea sure
<kamstrup> unless someone else on #ayatana has a unity-jhbuild stack at the ready
<kamstrup> mhr3: the homelens stuff could use a test spin before we waste time on review
<kamstrup> mhr3: gimme 15 mins to push the latest tweaks
 * mhr3 starts preparing food meanwhile
<mhr3> kamstrup, also fwiw we already call them "apps" in the sources filter
<JohnLea> kamstrup; yes, "Recent Files" and "Recent Apps" is good
<kamstrup> JohnLea: phew :-) Already committed it locally :-)
<kamstrup> JohnLea: running the still-WIP branches here it feels really good
<kamstrup> mhr3: can you read the status report on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/885738 and try out the branches?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 885738 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dash - Remove Dash Home shortcut icons" [High,In progress]
 * mhr3 updates .jhbuild
<mhr3> kamstrup, any chance you could sync with trunk? if not done
<kamstrup> mhr3: should be fairly recent, but let me do it
<kamstrup> mhr3: done
<kamstrup> mhr3: only unity needed sync
<mhr3> great
<kamstrup> JohnLea: currently in home screen search the music lens uses two categories. This seems a bit out of proportions as the files- and apps only use one collated category each
<kamstrup> when searching in the home screen the results a dominated by music, which is rarely what I look for
<JohnLea> kamstrup; what are those 2 categories?  Songs and Albums?
<kamstrup> right
<kamstrup> I am thinking maybe only include Songs
<kamstrup> as they'll match on the album title anyway afaik
<JohnLea> kamstrup; how about combining both into a single category?
<kamstrup> so ppl can go easily from the song to the album when the player is up
<kamstrup> also possible
<kamstrup> both are easy tweaks
<JohnLea> kamstrup; I think both would be good, with albums ordered infront of songs
<kamstrup> JohnLea: ok
<JohnLea> also "music" should be the last category header
<kamstrup> great, on it
<mhr3> kamstrup, it's kinda crashing every time i press bfb :)
<kamstrup> mhr3: meh, it's rock steady here
<mhr3> kamstrup, can it be cause i'm not running latest files lens?
<kamstrup> mhr3: still it shouldn't crash... but could be
<mhr3> kamstrup, http://paste.ubuntu.com/808585/
<mhr3> i'll try rebuilding it all, it might be because of the incremental build...
<kamstrup> mhr3: looks nasty. mind that there is an abi break in UnityCore
<mhr3> yea, i'm rebuilding... i just dont have 8 cores :P
<mhr3> kamstrup, works now :)
<mgedmin> so, middle-click on the top panel brings the focused maximized window to the background -- awesome!
<mgedmin> unless the area that looked like blank top panel reveals an application menu at the last moment -- d'oh!
<tgm4883> I'm trying to create a mythtv scope for ubuntuTV and there doesn't appear to be a way to do this yet  http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/tv-experience-spongebob.jpg
<tgm4883> Does an API exist for this yet?
<mhall119> tgm4883: exist for what?
<tgm4883> mhall119, for adding the content so it shows in a preview as in the screenshot
<tgm4883> The only thing I've really seen is the default unity way of showing things
<mhall119> tgm4883: I  don't think so, but I think it's supposed to make it's way back into Unity, so it will at some point
<tgm4883> is there a roadmap for that?
<mhall119> tgm4883: some of the things that *look* like scopes in the demo are custom code made just for the demo
<tgm4883> I've got a scope for MythTV made that puts the shows in the videos lens, but that doesn't really work so well for TV recordings
<tgm4883> The Schema doesn't really seem suited for recorded shows
<mick0> mhr3: Im experimenting with Dee.Transaction and want to show results while appending them. Like you could do with flush_revision_queue before. Is there any good way to do this?
<mhr3> mick0, the reason Transaction exists is to prevent that :)
<mhr3> (showing results while you're appending them)
<mick0> So I should just do that the old way. And check is_cancelled alot.
<mhr3> mick0, if you're not doing any async io, you really dont need to check the cancellable
<mhr3> the cancellable can get cancelled *only* if you return to mainloop at some point
<mick0> what do you mean? As I understand it is_cancelled will return true if an new search query has been entered.
<mhr3> yes, but that can't happen magically, you need to be doing async io for that to happen
<mick0> By async you mean the io (in my case requests to a web server) running in its own thread?
<mhr3> yes, or a callback based io (like gio is - or at least its non _sync methods)
<mhr3> you could also spin the mainloop yourself for a while even between synchronous operations
<mick0> Hmm. I don't think cancel will work better then thaw in this scope.
<mhr3> well if you're not doing async operations you dont need freeze/thaw in the first place
<mick0> Actually thaw makes a difference. It will make the scope to ignore some redundant search querys.
<mick0> for example, a long string will be searched in the start and then at the end.
<mhr3> unity does that, not lenses/scopes
<mhr3> but it'll change in 5.2 ;)
<mick0> even in oneiric? I've noticed a difference when Im using thaw and when I don't
<mhr3> yep, even in oneiric
<mhr3> what you saw was probably different typing speed ;)
<mhr3> or a webserver having good/bad moment
<mhr3> not sure what your scope is doing...
<mick0> oh. It's the spotify scope. It querys spotifys metadata server for tracks and albums and fetches album art.
<mhr3> well... if the server was *really* slow, you actually could see some difference with the thawing
<mick0> I understand it as I wont get any new querys while Im freezed?
<mick0> and then get a new when I thaw.
<mhr3> right, they're queued and dispatched once you thaw
<mick0> That is the what I see then.
<mhr3> well ultimately it'll behave the same way now even without freezing anyway
<mhr3> s/anyway/anything/
<mick0> As every with query I do a few querys. In theory max 26. Two to the metadata server and 24 to get album art (if all results are from different albums).
<mick0> thaw seems to make a difference
<mhr3> damn, that must take a while
<mhr3> what's the average time to completely all the queries?
<mick0> I havent got any number but I estimate the first result to show with album art within 1 or 2 secs.
<mhr3> wooo
<mhr3> but yea... webservices are slow...
<mhr3> we're aiming for ~80ms with the default lenses
<mhr3> and they still get cancelled from time to time ;)
<mick0> thats all local requests?
<mhr3> mick0, yea, there's no way a webservice would reply in such short time
<mhr3> they're all in java and take 80ms just to process the http header :D
<mick0> ^^
<mhall119> davidcalle: mhr3: is there any reference of what changed in the Lens api for Unity 5?
<mhr3> mhall119, kamstrup published a nice blog post about it
<mhr3> it's on planet
<mhall119> ah, I've been so busy today I haven't even consulted my readfeeder
<bschaefer> mhr3, thanks for that update. I should be able to finish that today at some point!
<mhr3> bschaefer, no hurry, but let me know of the progress :)
<bschaefer> mhr3, will do :)
<bschaefer> mhr3, hey, quick question. So there is still a possibility that when results->count == 0 and for it to not have no-result-hint. correct?
<bschaefer> mhr3, also noticed the results->count updates correctly now :)
<mhr3> bschaefer, right, and it may the other way around as well
<mhr3> like you'll get "no-results-hint" and have > 0 results
<bschaefer> mhr3, cool, ill just check if results == 0 then check if there is a no-results-hint. :)
<bschaefer> thanks
<mhr3> me skipping verbs is a sign that i should to bed :)
<bschaefer> mhr3, haha yeah, it's just 2pm here. Have a good night. I should be done with this in under an hour :).
<mhr3> bschaefer, cool, have fun with it
<bschaefer> mhr3, will do, you did most the work!
<bschaefer> and a good job at it. Very easy to finish this now
<mhr3> thx, and gn
<bschaefer> night
#ayatana 2012-01-19
<snadge> yo!
<snadge> smspillaz in da house? :p
<alkisg> Hi, is there any option for unity alt+tab switch to NOT group similar windows? It's a real pain to switch between 2 gedit windows with the keyboard...
<alkisg> I press alt+tab once to have the windows list, then 10 times to cycle between my other windows, then wait 2 seconds in the gedit button so that the 2 gedit window previews are shown, and then try to read the thumbnail to decide which is the gedit window I'm in and which one is the other I want to get to.
<alkisg> I installed the compizconfig-settings-manager and saw some options for the unity switcher there, but there was no option to never group similar windows
<snadge> alkisg: try alt ~
<alkisg> snadge: thanks a lot, that solves half of my problem. The other half is when I want to switch from e.g. pidgin to one of those 2 gedit windows, where the "never group windows" option would be necessary.
<alkisg> *handy, of course not necessary, I can live with taking 10 seconds to find the correct window :)
<snadge> well.. as annoying as unity is.. often people come unstuck with it
<snadge> because they're trying to do force it to do something an old fashioned way
<snadge> when theres a newer much simpler way of doing it
<snadge> i find using workspaces more effectively works around that problem
<alkisg> I tried to use workspaces a couple of years ago, but I didn't manage to increase my productivity with them
<snadge> you would alt tab until you get to the gedit icon. then press the down key, and select the gedit window you want
<snadge> then alt tab will switch between pidgin and that particular gedit window
<alkisg> snadge: if you have some more time, could you tell me how are you using workspaces? Do you have discrete usage patterns, i.e. "programming" "surfing" and put the windows for each pattern to one workspace?
<snadge> the idea behind the grouping is that it makes it easier to find the application you want to switch to.. if you have 10 programs open and each program has 6 or more windows associated with it.. it becomes confusing
<snadge> basically yes
<alkisg> Because I have e.g. 10 apps open at all times, but no discrete way to split them into workspaces, and I like to always work with maximized apps....
<snadge> i dont have any applications overlapping
<snadge> and i know which workspace has the app/window that im looking for
<snadge> so i just use ctrl-alt and arrow keys to pan between the different workspaces
<snadge> so i never have to use alt-tab
<alkisg> How many workspaces are you actively using?
<snadge> at the moment 8
<snadge> at home.. only 4
<alkisg> So at most you have to press 4 shortcuts to switch to the one you want...
<alkisg> Not bad
<snadge> you just get used to it after a while.. i dont even think of it that way
<snadge> ill just go.. ctrl-alt up right right
<alkisg> You basically replaced "alt-tab" with "workspaces" :)
<snadge> yeah that way i dont have to bother with overlapping windows.. which is annoying
<snadge> i basically ignore the unity panel.. although.. if i have to find a window that i've lost
<snadge> i'll sometimes use that
<snadge> i also use it to launch commonly used applications
<alkisg> What I was doing so far, was to remember how many times to press alt+tab to go to a set of 3-4 apps that I'm concurrently using. For the rest of them, I looked at the bottom panel, and used the mouse.
<snadge> i basically used gnome 2 the same way.. the biggest thing that upset me with the transition to gnome 3
<snadge> was the lack of panel applets
<alkisg> Now, when I have to switch between 3 windows (say, pidgin, gedit, console), it's a pain, I haven't figured out how to best do it yet
<alkisg> Yes, it's the first time for me to miss the panels (from 10.04 directly to 12.04, I like LTS releases :))
<snadge> have pidgin, gedit and console on seperate workspaces ;)
<snadge> also
<snadge> if you press the windows (mod) key.. you will see numbers show up on the top 10 items on the panel
<snadge> so you could number pidgin, gedit and console
<snadge> and just hit mod+8, mod+9, mod+0 for example
<alkisg> I've seen that but I didn't get to use it yet. I think that's the best course for me... alt+number, and then alt ~
<snadge> its mostly old people that have the issue with how the desktop is changing
<alkisg> I'll just have to organize my mind to map from console to 1, pidgin to 2, gedit to 3, firefox to 4 etc
<snadge> im 30 myself.. and at first, it grossly offended me the radical change.. and the regression in functionality
<snadge> but i've been using unity now for a few months
<alkisg> Yes after 20 years of the same desktop concept (i'm 38), it's difficult to change, especially if it requires more seconds to do a tasks
<snadge> and i like it now.. i dont care about gnome 2 anymore
<snadge> i dont miss it at all
<alkisg> I do like the extra screen space, it's the task switching and lack of directly seeing which apps are running that bothers me
<snadge> linus torvalds felt the same way apparently.. strongly enough to switch to xfce
<alkisg> I guess I'll get used to it, and find other ways to do quickly the things I do frequently... :)
<snadge> right.. i also recommend reading a guide on unity shortcuts
<snadge> i dont have one off hand.. but i googled for it.. and learned tips and tricks from that
<snadge> its slower at first.. but after you find more efficient ways to do things.. it becomes much less annoying
<snadge> xfce is just way too horrible for me to even consider using
<snadge> but i guess if you absolutely must have a traditional task switcher.. its one of the few remaining options
<snadge> i just figured.. why try to fight it ;)
<alkisg> I put 11.04 to my daughter's and wife's laptops
<snadge> i think that still has "gnome-classic" option from memory
<alkisg> They both had me revert their laptops to 10.04 within a week
<snadge> 11.10 has dropped support for gnome classic.. thats when i was forced to make the switch
<alkisg> I then tried gnome-classic in my daughter's laptop, she could live with it
<snadge> i like unity now.. i honestly think its better than gnome-shell
<smspillaz> snadge: kind of, but pretty busy atm, whats wrong ?
<alkisg> Dropped support? Wow :(
<snadge> smspillaz: just checking up on the silly workspace switching focus issue ;)
<smspillaz> I haven't had time to look at it yte
<smspillaz> been on planes / sick etc etc etc
<snadge> bugger :/
<snadge> maybe someone should report an issue on launchpad for it? or you'll get to it eventually? :p
<smspillaz> I'll get to it eventually
<snadge> alkisg: i know this is going to sound treasonous.. but centos still uses gnome 2
<snadge> and will be supported for many years
<alkisg> (09:39:43 ÏÎ¼) snadge: i like unity now.. i honestly think its better than gnome-shell ==> but do you honestly think it's better than gnome-2's panels?
<snadge> but .. i honestly think unity is worth investing the time into learning how to use efficiently
<snadge> well.. like i said, i dont miss gnome 2.. i spent about a week or two being frustrated by it
<snadge> but that was many months ago, and i simply dont care now
<snadge> it would've been nice if both the gnome-shell and the unity devs.. provided more assistance for people who dont wish to radically alter the way they've been doing things for years.. its quite a rude shock for many people
<alkisg> I will... I'm in charge of deployments in about 250 schools, so I want to really push myself to like unity. If I can't, then maybe we'll try KDE or LXDE...
<snadge> yes.. its better.. yes, i can see why they've made the decisions they have.. but they've had time to get used to it, and they're desktop interface "experts"
<snadge> other people just load it for the first time.. and go "what the *expletive*"
<snadge> and its a very common reaction to get angry and start screaming blue murder
<snadge> i can't believe that was never considered important
<snadge> the kids will have much less issue with unity or gnome shell.. i guarantee that
<snadge> kids brains are much more adaptive
<alkisg> Hmmm not sure about that . My 11 year old daughter, ubuntu user since 3 years, reported that she likes them in this order: "gnome-2, gnome-classic, KDE, unity". Now I have kubuntu in her laptop, and lubuntu in the other one...
<alkisg> The other one adapted to lubuntu very quickly, the first one cried until I replaced unity :P
<snadge> perhaps i meant kids with zero exposure to traditional desktop windowing systems
<snadge> or kids that use macos x
<alkisg> It's very difficult to find them nowadays though
<alkisg> Maybe, no experience with macos X
<snadge> if you think unity is bad.. have you tried gnome-shell? .. ergh
<snadge> thats a definite wtf were they thinking
<alkisg> No thanks :D I don't even care to see how it looks!
<alkisg> Hehe
<snadge> perhaps you should try it.. then you'll be like.. hey this unity is actually pretty good ;)
<alkisg> Hehehe don't tell that idea to my wife, she'll have me looking at fat ugly women all the time :D
<snadge> same with OS X.. it still confuses the daylights out of me.. granted i've only used OSX for a grand total of like 2 minutes
<snadge> but it horrifies me
 * alkisg settled in using win+number to launch AND switch to his favorite apps. Fortunately if I'm in gedit, pressing win+3 once gets me to the more recent pidgin window I used, and if I press it twice, it shows me the pidgin window list, so I like that.
<alkisg> Thanks again snadge :)
 * mhall119 wonders what davidcalle is up to with google+
<smoser> could someone other than me please look at bug 905854
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 905854 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "memory leak in unity-2d-panel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/905854
<smoser> unity-2d is leaking serious memory. by tomorrow it will top firefox as largest memory consumer on my desktop.
<smoser> didrocks, it would seem to me that the bug above is critical, i'm really just hoping to see someone acknowledge it at this point.
<didrocks> greyback: ^
<didrocks> smoser: I'm adding it to next milestone
<didrocks> to ensure it's tracked
<smoser> thanks.
<didrocks> so, it's only in the panel, isn't it?
<didrocks> no leak from the dash, launcher ?
<didrocks> smoser: do you have something like indicator-multiload (the cpu indicator) or the weather one?
<smoser> i do run indicator-multiload :-(
<smoser> didrocks, here's a pastebin of top sorted by 'M'
<smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/809674/
<greyback> smoser: thanks for report, am looking into it
<smoser> so, yes, for me, its only unity-2d-places that goes crazy
<didrocks> smoser: ok, this one is a known indicator issue, can you just try to remove it and see if it still leaks?
<didrocks> just to ensure you are hitting that issue
<smoser> didrocks, i can do that, yes.
<smoser> but i really like indicator-multiload
<didrocks> smoser: thanks :)
<smoser> :)
<smoser> logging out
<didrocks> greyback: let's wait to get more feedback
<greyback> didrocks: indeed, am watching
<smoser> didrocks, is there a bug open for indicator-multiload ?
<didrocks> smoser: yeah, I'm looking for it
<didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-multiload/+bug/779717
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 779717 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "indicator-multiload causes a memory leak in compiz when run under unity" [Undecided,Triaged]
<didrocks> it's fixed released, but cjwatson got some other issues last cycle
 * didrocks looks again
<didrocks> smoser: no, didn't find anything more, if it's multiload, we can recycle your bug report :)
<didrocks> JohnLea: hey, small question: alt + F1 is used to enter the keynav mode, previous, escape and alt + F1 was then used to quit the keynav mode. It's not anymore the case (Alt + F1 doesn't wort to quit this mode), is it wanted ?
<greyback> didrocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/885304/comments/5
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 885304 in unity-2d "[launcher] When Launcher already has keyboard focus, Alt-F1 doesn't give focus to Dash Button" [Low,In progress]
<JohnLea> didrocks; it should be possible to escape the Alt+F1 keynav mode both by pressing Esc and by pressing Alt+F1 a second time.
<didrocks> JohnLea: greyback: thanks! it's then a regression :)
<didrocks> (in 3d)
<smoser> didrocks, greyback i disabled indicator-multiload and commented in the bug. thanks for your help. i'll report back in a few hours to see if my memory is growing
<didrocks> smoser: keep us in touch!
<greyback> smoser: please let me know what you find
<Andy80> Kaleo: ping!
<LLStarks> smspillaz, can framebuffers between two gpus be handled easily by a compositing wm? https://github.com/Bumblebee-Project/bumblebeed/issues/37
<smspillaz> LLStarks: not afaik, thats not really my area of expertise
<smspillaz> The only way to do it would be context sharing, athough context sharing between two gpus on first principles would be really ugly because of the fact that the internal layouts are different
<smspillaz> in addition, gpu1 cannot access memory on gpu2 without a copy and internal representation reorder
<LLStarks> would it be possible without a dma buffer sharing technique?
<smspillaz> LLStarks: it would be really really slow
<smspillaz> LLStarks: best to ask the same question to jaytaoko he knows more than me
<smspillaz> (a LOT more)
<LLStarks> thx
<smspillaz> LLStarks: btw, my answer was more along the lines of "you can handle it, but it wouldn't really be easy ... or fast"
<smspillaz> LLStarks: I know that, eg, "prime" which was airlied's implementation of optimus required you to run a compositing window manager, but I'm pretty sure what it did was bring up the X server on gpu 1, and then run anything requiring opengl on gpu 2, so the compositing window manager was necessary so that pixmaps can be pulled out of the X server and into gpu memory
<smspillaz> though thats not really the same as framebuffer sharing
<smspillaz> LLStarks: of course, you're best to ask airlied about the specifics of prime, but I'm pretty sure it required extensive server patching so that the x server ran in a "dummy" screen and the real work was done by gpu 2
<smspillaz> gpu muxing is so stupid I want it to die
<LLStarks> i've been talking to airlied, not a lot of answers. makes testing almost impossible.
<smspillaz> he's not really assigned to work on prime full time, it was more of a hack
<LLStarks> it doesn't look like a hack anymore. thousands of lines of code are going into it
<smspillaz> well, it was originally :)
<om26er> greyback, hey! seems bug 827414 stays in unity-2d, alot of people are confirming
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 827414 in unity-2d "gedit fails to start on first try, but does on the second" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827414
<greyback> om26er: hey. Thanks for ping
<om26er> so it was fixed in both lenses at one stage. /me wonders why it stayed in unity-2d
<om26er_> andyrock, can you look at bug 884323
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 884323 in unity (Ubuntu) "Modal maximized windows are showing all window controls (and every of them works)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884323
<om26er_> and Hi andyrock :D
<andyrock> Hi
<andyrock> working on other stuff right now
<andyrock> and i have an exam tomorrow :/
<om26er_> alright, I had one today :D
<andyrock> one tomorrow
<andyrock> and another one in five days
<andyrock> :/
<andyrock> let me give a look to the bug btw
<andyrock> i think that the but is a bit more generic
<andyrock> i mean we should not display the minimize button if the window cannot be minimized
<om26er_> yeah or maybe do the same as dash
<om26er_> i.e. minimize button be greyed out
<andyrock> yep
<andyrock> let me give a loook
<andyrock> om26er_, i can find a app with a screenshot preview :)
<andyrock> can you help me?
<andyrock> :)
<om26er_> hrm?
<om26er_> andyrock, here to help but about what exactly?
<andyrock> help me to find an app with a screeshot in the usc
<andyrock> maybe it's usc bug
<om26er_> empathy
<om26er_> i just opened and usc have the screenshot for empathy so could be a problem specific to you
<andyrock> om26er_, btw i can reproduce the bug with other modal dialog
<andyrock> *dialogs
<andyrock> assign me the bug pleas
<andyrock> *please
<om26er_> sure thing,
<om26er_> thx andyrock :)
<andyrock> but we should talk about this stuff
<andyrock> in the #ubuntu-unity
<andyrock> freenode channel :)
<mhall119> pretty soon #ayatana is going to redirect to #ubuntu-unity
<mhall119> thumper: ping
<bschaefer> hey mhr3, here is the update that #711199 bug. https://code.launchpad.net/~brandontschaefer/unity/fix-711199
<bschaefer> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/90406656/no_results.png what it looks like
<mhr3> bschaefer, yea, i saw, but there's a big branch coming which will change the home lens, so i'll be better to do it afterwards
<mhr3> *it'll
<bschaefer> mhr3, yeah I saw that was getting worked on. That is why I waited on that one, but all the other lenses work!
<bschaefer> though one thing came up only on first login though.
<bschaefer> in LensVeiw it calls Search("") and OnSearchFinished gets called with 0 results (even though they exist)
<bschaefer> gets emited*
<bschaefer> you edited that function so I thought you might have looked at it (gets a link)
<bschaefer> mhr3, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/view/head:/plugins/unityshell/src/LensView.cpp#L350
<mhr3> that shouldn't happen
<bschaefer> I think it is getting called to earlier; the Search ("")
<bschaefer> when I removed it everything was working fine but was hesitant to commit it so i used a different fix.
<mhr3> i know that mikkel was having issues with the view_types, but he might have fixed it already :)
<bschaefer> sweet! I should email njpatel about that to see if it is even needed.
<mhr3> bschaefer, i'll make a note to look at it during the review
<bschaefer> alright thanks. I tested it and nothing changed with removing  it (the initial_activation calls):)
<mhr3> bschaefer, what you want to test then is killing the lenses
<mhr3> afaict it should be using the last search_string, not just ""
<mhall119> does Unity 5 allow dynamic loading/updating of lenses?
<bschaefer> so killing them and restarting to see if it loads correctly?
<mhr3> bschaefer, good test would be searching, killing them and then just switching the views
<bschaefer> mhr3, well the search_string at first is "" which is why I check if results == 0 && search_string != "" so I don't get that start up problem
<bschaefer> mhr3 ooo yeah what do you think should happen when there are 0 results to begin with? (like if i have no music)
<mhr3> i really dont like such workarounds
<bschaefer> mhr3, I dont either, but I like getting rid of that early call the Search which cases a problem; but want to talk to someone else about it
<mhr3> bschaefer, maybe the lens should say, oh dear, poor you, go buy some music :)
<bschaefer> mhr3, haha
<bschaefer> I just havn't put any on the VM
<mhall119> davidcalle: ping
<bschaefer> mhr3, so Ill test that out more with killing lenses and get back. Ill move the branch to needs fixing also for the merge
<bschaefer> mhr3, thanks!
<mhr3> bschaefer, just set it to "work in progress"
<bschaefer> mhr3, opps to late. Umm but set it to work in progress :)
<davidcalle> mhall119, pong
<mhall119> davidcalle: hey, just wanted to check in and see how things were going for you getting your scopes into USC
<davidcalle> mhall119, going pretty well. I'm getting a branch ready to send for this w-e.
<mhall119> davidcalle: awesome, let me know if there's anything I can do to help
<davidcalle> mhall119, magic packaging :)
<mhall119> either with the code itself, or with the ARB/process side
<mhall119> did Ken vandine help with the packaging?
<davidcalle> mhall119, no, everything is fine. StÃ©phane Graber did most of the work and now I have a good template.
<mhall119> ah cool, stgraber is excellent
<davidcalle> He is.
<davidcalle> mhr3, about the results-hint, I'm wondering at what point should I set it.
<davidcalle> mhr3, reply-hint*
<mhr3> davidcalle, before calling search.finished () would probably be a good idea?
<davidcalle> mhr3, sure :) But I'm asking because I don't have any success with it.
<mhr3> davidcalle, well you won't see anything in the dash now
<mhr3> it's not hooked up yet
<mhr3> davidcalle, bschaefer has a branch for it though
<davidcalle> mhr3, oh, it explains a lot :)
<joey> mhall119 & jono -  Hi
<joey> I just got a request to close down #ayatana and put a migrate to #ubuntu-unity
<jono> joey, yup
<joey> Can either of you confirm that?
<jono> joey, I can
<joey> sweet
<joey> The topic on this channel will be deleted.
<joey> I was thinking of doing a soft-redirect (entrymsg plus custom topic) for a bit until the email that you've probably sent makes its rounds
* joey changed the topic of #ayatana to: Home.nsg of Unity and Ayatana || http://unity.ubuntu.com and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana || Bitesize Bugs you can help with: http://goo.gl/i1WA1 and http://goo.gl/tiheb || Not getting an answer? Post on the https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-dev mailing list
* joey changed the topic of #ayatana to: NOTICE: This channel has moved to #ubuntu-unity.  Go there and profit!
<mhall119> \o/
<mhall119> see you all over there
<jono> joey, can we put a re-direct in in a week or so
<jono> mhall119, can you blog about the move to the new channel?
<joey> jono: I think so. We need freenode staff to do that
<jono> thanks joey
<joey> jono: my pleasure
<jono> :-)
<mhall119> jono: sure thing
<joey> popey: ok you should be able to op here now
<popey> that works then
<popey> thank you for your continued awesomeness joey
<joey> I am here to serve
<joey> I'll let you akick and clear folks popey
<popey> thanks
<balloons> I guess this is the end
#ayatana 2012-01-20
<didrocks> JohnLea: hey, on the user test results from the previous unity, I got those feedbacks on unity:
<didrocks> people complained on wm/menu_basic that right clicking in the title bar works and bring a menu, but not when the application is maximized (as the title bar is in the panel). If we don't want to change that design-wise, we need to rephrase the test.
<JohnLea> didrocks; the ultimate plan is to remove this menu, but we need some new features to land first.  Was going to remove the menu in 11.10 but this would have been premature.
<didrocks> JohnLea: ok, thanks for the summary :)
<mhall119> didrocks: JohnLea: FYI, we're trying to move all the Unity conversations to #ubuntu-unity
<didrocks> mhall119: yeah, I just talk to him here as he's not on #ubuntu-unity!
<smoser> greyback, just commented on bug. it most certainly seems to be "fixed" if i don't run indicator-multiload
<didrocks> smoser: ok, so either indicator-multiload issue or on the libappindicator level
<didrocks> tedg: do you remember about this?  ^ memleak when an indicator changes a lot of the image to show
<tedg> didrocks, Uhm, perhaps.  There was a ref_sink() one a while back.
<didrocks> tedg: do you think the issue is in the appindicator part then?
<didrocks> (libappindicator, isn't it?)
<tedg> didrocks, Uhm, it could be.  I mean, I have no reason to say it isn't, but I also don't really have any proof to say it is :-)
<tedg> didrocks, Where is the leak showing up?
<didrocks> tedg: smoser got high mem leak using indicator-multiload (I think it's in the unity-panel-service)
<didrocks> smoser: ?
<didrocks> tedg: cjwatson was complaining about the same thing not that long ago
<didrocks> with indicator-multiload as well
<greyback> smoser: great, thank you
<smoser> unity-2d-panel is the program that shows the memory usage
<smoser> and it gets *really* fat over time. i'm sure that valgrind woudl show the leak pretty quickly.
<smoser> it leaks fast
<smoser> ie, hundreds of MB in 5 days or something
<didrocks> tedg: can be 2 issues then, we had the same in 3d
<tedg> Ah, so then it's not libappindicator, that's in the program's memory space.
<didrocks> smoser: ^
<didrocks> yeah
<tedg> It would have to be in indicator-application.
<tedg> smoser, Run valgrind please?  :-)
<smoser> tedg, i do have other things to do
<smoser> :)
 * tedg is not going to install multiload on principle
<seb128> didrocks, is that specific to precise?
<didrocks> seb128: no, it's not, cjwatson had that on oneiric
<didrocks> but some part was fixed
<didrocks> hence, I'm wondering if it's now -2d only or still due to service
<seb128> ok, I though it was fixed in oneiric, I wondered if that regressed in unity in precise
<didrocks> some part, IIRC, the leak was never fully fixed
<didrocks> so I guess that maybe greyback is leaking as well :)
<greyback> smoser: yes I read that in your report, it's on the todo list:)
#ayatana 2012-01-21
<calmpitbull> hello all, im makeing my own theme did every thing but i cant change panel color
<mhall119> calmpitbull: ask in #ubuntu-unity
<calmpitbull> thx
<mhall119> np
