#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-11
<greg-g> rick_h_: awesome!
<greg-g> rick_h_: and yeah, just because they offered and sent a follow-up email saying "why haven't you requested yours yet, it hurts our feelings"
<rick_h_> ah, cool
<snap-l> Good morning, gentle-folk
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> i worked 2.5 days out of the last 10. vacation is over :(
<rick_h_> ugh
<snap-l> Welcome back? :)
<brousch> you are too chipper today
<snap-l> Not really
<rick_h_> going to be a hot one :(
<snap-l> But compared with yesterday, today should be better.
<brousch> who cares, i'm inside an air conditioned building
<snap-l> rick_h_: I found your new keyboard: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Solar-Keyboard-K750/dp/B004MF11MU
<snap-l> and it's on sale today only, too.
<rick_h_> yea, I saw this thing
<rick_h_> but I don't get it
<rick_h_> going to have crappy keys
<snap-l> Dude, it's SOLAR.
<rick_h_> and I hate wireless input
<snap-l> Totally Green, hippie tech
<snap-l> Gives you a place to put your peicils
<snap-l> Tactile feedback. Pshaw.
<snap-l> Of course if you live in a cave like most developers, your keyboard will die about 15 minutes after unboxing. ;)
<snap-l> unless it can charge from the glow of your monitor.
<nullspace> oh yeah unity hates to run on my system
<rick_h_> that's ok, it hates everyone
<snap-l> I kinda like it
<nullspace> well at least it's an equal oppertunity hater
<snap-l> though the dock on the side needs a "please go away, you're obscuring the side of libreoffice" button
<nullspace> I wouldn't know it just hoses X for me because I have a 7300 GPU
<snap-l> You need a new computer. ;)
<snap-l> Just use that as a DNS server.
<nullspace> that sounds like some marketing plan by another company I know, didn't balmer say that same thing
<snap-l> No, he said "rabble rabble blargh BAZINGA"
<snap-l> Which roughly translates to "please help me keep my job"
<nullspace> and give me more booze
<snap-l> You haven't studied Ballmer-ese
<snap-l> Give me more booze is "developers developers developers"
<snap-l> adding the fourth "developers" means "please give me more booze for I am sweaty"
<snap-l> Never thought I'd say this, but I miss Bill Gates as the head of Microsoft
<snap-l> at least he gave the company some testicles to kick
<brousch> i just looked outside and it's darker than when i woke up this morning
<brousch> way darker
<snap-l> brousch: You're supposed to get storms today.
<brousch> we are
<snap-l> And so are we. :)
<snap-l> Should be nice and comfy with 92F storms. ;)
<Wolfger> but they bring cooler weather with them
<Wolfger> or behind them
<snap-l> Yes, yes they doo
<snap-l> which is why I'm not complaining too hard.
<snap-l> http://outloud.fm/moshpit
<rick_h_> yummy, monitor reorg time
<snap-l> yay!
<snap-l> I <3 conference calls
<snap-l> So completely silly right now
<rick_h_> fun fun fun
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/#!/tkadlec/status/90411122817118208
<rick_h_> wow
<snap-l> That's pretty cool
<snap-l> And sad, because IIRC that was the LISP course, correct?
<greg-g> :( I miss Lisp
<greg-g> probably just in a "oh, the good ole days of undergrad" kind of way
<snap-l> I have several books of lisp on my shelf
<snap-l> should really get them out someday.
<snap-l> someday.
<snap-l> someday.
<snap-l> I say that a lot.
<greg-g> ditto
<Wolfger> ditto
<Wolfger> Like "someday I should learn Python"
<Wolfger> "someday I should learn C"
<Wolfger> "someday I should sit my butt down and start writing an app"
<Wolfger> someday, I'm gonna be awesome.
<brousch> sameday, you'll be dead!
<brousch> hm, not what i intended, but ok
<rick_h_> I think everyone does, there's too much stuff these days
<rick_h_> was listening to a podcast where they got talking how just web development has moved from the one guy you'd hire to do you whole company site
<rick_h_> to a team of specialists and applications layered in crazy fasion
<rick_h_> things just get more and more involved and complicated and just trying to keep up somewhere is crazy
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I tend to agree, though I'm not sure it's as complicated as some folks make it out to be
<snap-l> at the end of the day it's all about getting bits from one location to another
<snap-l> I was on a call where they were hyperventilating about adding JSON support to one of our products
<rick_h_> meh, it's a lot out there
<snap-l> and I'm thinking "You already sling XML out this thing. Unless you're doing something crazy stupid, throwing out JSON shouldn't be that dificult"
<rick_h_> hahahahahahahaha
<rick_h_> except that xml allows for much more complicated stuctures than json
<snap-l> But then again, it's Java-based so lord knows what gyrations you'd need
<rick_h_> the reverse would be true, but going from xml -> json might not even be possible
<snap-l> rick_h_: I doubt it. It's essentially key-value pairs
<rick_h_> ok, yea I mean if it's simple data
<rick_h_> but some places have a lot more
<rick_h_> think about xml attribs for instance
<snap-l> just sprinkle some SOAP so Java can auto-cope.
<rick_h_> json has no home for them
<snap-l> True
<snap-l> I'm firmly in the camp that Java and the auto-tools they use are setting back computer-development about 20 years
<snap-l> People don't think anymore about what they're using; they just point their IDE at some URL and expect code to just happen.
<snap-l> Which is all fine and good once you understand what's happening underneath
<snap-l> [insert standard rant about not being able to build Java code without Eclipse here]
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/CRREdwards/statuses/90449814415872000 <- Snicker.
<_stink_> getting daaarrrkk
<Wolfger> round 2 of the storm?
<_stink_> looks like it
<_stink_> didn't really get much of a round one up here
<greg-g> yeah, no round 1 here, but what just happened as round 2 was crazy. It was almost as dark as night
<Wolfger> CNN needs more poll options. Like "Yes", "No", and "Don't be stupid."
<snap-l> Wolfger: You expect people online to not be stupid?
<snap-l> Bwahahahaha
<jcastro> rick_h_: hah, so we craigslisted our fish tank
<jcastro> and this dude came over
<jcastro> and he misread so he thought I was giving him my entire kit for $35
<jcastro> I'm like no dude, $350.
<jcastro> he's like "oh, well bye."
<snap-l> Fuckin' Craigslist
<jcastro> well, we have emails with him
<jcastro> he just didn't read I guess
<jcastro> it's like yes dude, you're getting this huge entire aquarium setup with everything including the kickass substrate for growing plants for thirty five bucks.
<Wolfger> snap-l: No, I expect CNN to not be stupid. Which I admit is nearly as laughable an idea...
<Wolfger> Thanks, jcastro, for that excellent example of stupid people on the internet. :-)
<rick_h_> jcastro: lol
<rick_h_> well sucky
<snap-l> jcastro: yeah, that sucks
<jcastro> I more want it gone so I can go bigger next time. :)
<jcastro> just doesn't make sense to set it up in a place where I will only be a year
<rick_h_> uh oh, jcastro has the bug
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<rick_h_> yea, I'm dying to set mine back up
<rick_h_> the boy loves watching fish at the stores/etc
<snap-l> I want to get back into keeping up an aquarium
<rick_h_> think I'll start it back up this fall when the yard duties cut down
<snap-l> but right now isn't the best time to be dumping money into fish
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, everything going ok with the relocation project?
<brousch> maybe you should invest in fish you can eat when they get too big
<brousch> or maybe sardines
<brousch> instead of tropical foofoo fish
<snap-l> rick_h_: It goes. I think he's settling in
<snap-l> but his TV is jacked, and he wants cable and ...
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<snap-l> Hell, I told him I'd put Dirty Jobs in the DVD player on repeat
<snap-l> same thing as cable
<brousch> start a new movement: The Patriot Aquarium
<brousch> like the patriot gardens
<Wolfger> Invest in sushi. Freshly caught and cut. :-)
<snap-l> Heh
<brousch> wow, the end of the first answer http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100403214603AADijSp
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> ok, thanks for destroying my lunch appetite
<snap-l> I'm having trouble getting a VM to work on this X120e.
<snap-l> Hoping that creating it on another machine will fix  things
<snap-l> bloody hell
<snap-l> something about virtualbox is not happy here.
<brousch> virtualbox --
<brousch> vmware is more stable
<_stink_> yahoo answers, classic.
<snap-l> WEll, even so, VB works on my other machine
<_stink_> "someone i know ate a goldfish and said it was nasty"
<snap-l> this won't even boot up 10.04.02 LTS server without panicking.
<snap-l> Bad RIP value
<snap-l> and apparently is bad enough to try to kill INIT
<brousch> http://www.ehow.com/how_5942884_breed-sardines.html
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/show-recap/soundgarden-ultramega-comeback-tour
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://ditrw.com/booktorious/
<brousch> nice
<snap-l> It's taking a while to load
<brousch> kindle is the iphone of ereaders. locked in, took off quickly at first, but now android (nook color) is taking the lead
<snap-l> though ePub is a very friendly format
<rick_h_> what did you do? load up the big game epub things that choke other ereaders :P
<rick_h_> brousch: I think you've got some rose colored glasses there
<rick_h_> nook color isn't taking off anywhere atm, the new nook is e-ink and rated "on par" with kindle
<snap-l> rick_h_: No, I loaded up Miles, Mutants and Microbes from Baen
<rick_h_> not that they've jumped ahead or anything
<brousch> "Nook color dethrones Kindle as most popular ereader" http://dvice.com/archives/2011/07/nook-color-is-t.php
<brousch> rick_h_: what wifi tether app do you use? whatever you were using last year is better than anything i've found
<rick_h_> just the baked in OS
<rick_h_> never used a tether app
<snap-l> brousch: Wait a sec, I'll put up some shit site that says that the Kobo just ate Amazon and shit nooks
<rick_h_> wtf http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110708005437/en/Media-Tablet-Sales-Lag-Optimistic-Quarter-Targets
<rick_h_> did you read the real article?
<brousch> no way. i was raised on /.
<brousch> i don't read past a headline
<snap-l> There's no numbers
<rick_h_> nothing at all, no source, everything is analyist "expectations"
<snap-l> What we have here is some serious pony-wishing
<rick_h_> no kidding
<rick_h_> someone's making some $$ on link-bait
<rick_h_> http://hothardware.com/News/NOOK-Color-Passes-the-Kindle-Among-eReaders/
<rick_h_> article is almost all ipad, lots of in-body ads for you to click on
<snap-l> Welcome to the echochamber
<rick_h_> welcome to the BS chamber
<snap-l> come come now, rick_h_, you should know that just by posting crap on the internet, it magicall becomes true
<snap-l> witness the birth of pasta fetishism.
<brousch> NOOK 4 LIFE. KINDLE CAN DIAF
<rick_h_> this one guy, he said that he thought the kobo was the bestest e-reader evar! Nook + Kindle are baby beaters
<rick_h_> so I bought stock in kobo
<snap-l> Just like all of the people who said that any day now people would realize the brilliance of OS/2
<snap-l> and now we're basking in OS/2's incredible marketshare
<snap-l> OS/2 Vista and OS/2 7
<rick_h_> have you seen all that linux news? it's the most popular. If you do a google trends it's much higher than windows :P
<brousch> finally
<snap-l> Well yeah... "how do I run Windows games on my Linux computer" has to be the biggest FAQ of them all.
<snap-l> Followed by "how do I run Windows games on my Ubuntu"
<rick_h_> actually number one search is "WTF is with all these linux asshats?"
<snap-l> "I installed Linux on my talkie the talking toaster and now all it does is make me crumpets. I can't get it to make toast anymore"
<snap-l> "Crumpets are better than toast anyway"
<snap-l> "But I wanted toast"
<snap-l> "I installed  a patch, and now I can get English Muffins, but still no toast"
<snap-l> "Well, after following a 3 page Ubuntu Forums post, now my toaster tells me to fuck off in Swedish. At least it sounds like Swedish, but I'm not sure. Can someone please help?"
<_stink_> "I tried the above commands, and i bricked my toaster.  Can you help me."
<snap-l> "Idiot, talkie the talking toaster doesn't know Swedish. It can't be saying anything in Swedish."
<snap-l> "OK, after 3 updates, 12 patches, and the threat of violence, my toaster ran away last night. Please help me, as I don't have enough money for a new toaster. Answers to the name 'Nigel'"
<snap-l> "Thank you for your bug report. We have moved from Natty Nutella to Oblong Orange Marmalade, and are closing your bug report. Have a nice day!"
<rick_h_> get it all out :P
<rick_h_> so went and got the mail, it's not currently 94...that's a nice suprise
<snap-l> Yeah, but the humidity is 94%
<snap-l> at least
<snap-l> jcastro: Is Scrabble Free better than Word Feud?
<jcastro> it's about the same
<jcastro> but the squares are in the right place
<jcastro> i wish they had a pay version, hate these ads.
<jcastro> it has real push notifications, and a dictionary
<jcastro> there are some nice things, other things are ok
<jcastro> wordfeud is faster I think
<snap-l> Yeah, that's what I'm finding
<snap-l> I can almost play real-time with Wordfeud
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> this isn't slow
<jcastro> I prefer real scrabble since it's the same as the board game
<snap-l> I thought you'd prefer Wordfeud because they give you all the vowels, and me all of the consonants. :)
<jcastro> heh
<snap-l> Couldn't make a fucking word for the beginning of the last game.
<snap-l> I'm going to drain out my Words With Friends, and stick with Word Feud
<jcastro> yeah for sure WwF is junk, not sure I will stay with wordfued yet
<jcastro> it's kind of important to me to play the real scrabble as I play the real game all the time
<jcastro> so this doesn't have to be better than wordfeud, just not terrible enough
<jcastro> hahah, the android motto: It only needs to not be totally horrible
<snap-l> jcastro: We should play a game with random placement
<snap-l> that'll sharpen ya. ;)
<greg-g> rick_h_: I got my replacement charger in the mail (and it works!). When will I see you in person next?
<snap-l> I <3 that there's a catdvi
<Blazeix> anyone know of a really good noob HTML/CSS tutorial? I need to find one for an intern, and I really don't want to point him to w3schools or tizag...
<Blazeix> hm, I think I remember htmldog not being terrible, maybe I'll send him that.
<gamerchick02> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1798769 has anyone in here had this issue? no reply from S76. i'm thinking of calling them tomorrow afternoon.
<Blazeix> weird, you'd think someone from S76 would at least acknowledge you.
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> unless they're all on vacation.
<gamerchick02> i did get a reply. isantop was on vacation. heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-12
<gamerchick02> i'm off for antiques roadshow. old? yes, i am. see everyone tomorrow
<rick_h_> greg-g: no idea when we'll cross paths again
<greg-g> rick_h_: :(
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, we'll figure something out at some point
<greg-g> rick_h_: if you need it by any point, just let me know, and I'll take the time to head to CHC
<greg-g> g'morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> early party greg-g ?
<greg-g> about the usual now. I have an employee that needs to start at 8am (so she can get to her second half-time gig by noon-ish) so I need to be there to open the door for her
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<brousch> nappy nappy
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> brousch: +1
<rick_h_> crap, now I feel like I'm a google ad when I do a +1 in chat
<Wolfger> why do you even do +1? We've always been a ++ crowd....
<rick_h_> python doesn't do ++
<Wolfger> It doesn't?
<Wolfger> Lame
<rick_h_> +=1
<Wolfger> --
<brousch> google's in your head, man
<rick_h_> crap! /me runs
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> We were doing +1 before +! became cool
<snap-l> We're +1 hipsters
<windows> morning
<snap-l> Nice, looks like Jamendo updated their terms of service
<snap-l> And we're about 5 minutes away from the OMC big four of CC metal
<brousch> crap, i'm way behind on omc
<brousch> no assburners?
<snap-l> No assburners
<snap-l> Everything else, though
<brousch> i'm boycotting
<snap-l> brousch: OK.
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/07/12/open-metalcast-episode-25-the-big-four-of-cc-metal/
<brousch> i need a snappy protest chant
<greg-g> snap-l: do you know what the changes were to the Jamendo TOS?
<brousch> blah blah own your ass blah blah all your music are belong to us blah blah lawsuit
<snap-l> They give a small summary
<snap-l> one sec.
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/361/
<snap-l> Mostly that artists need to make sure they're  not part of some collective agency (ASCAP)
<snap-l> that they can pull out of Jamendo Pro at any time (used to be a year)
<snap-l> and that Jamendo is committed to not using their tracks for things like pornos, political stuff, etc.
<greg-g> ah, so mostly with PRO
<snap-l> and the assurance that artists will keep their music "free" on the site.
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> ie: I'm CC, but also ASCAP
<snap-l> or I made a CC cover of Rick Astley, but that's ASCAP
<greg-g> heh, right
<snap-l> or BMI, or ...
<snap-l> brousch: Still boycotting?
<brousch> yes, until this afternoon when i'll have a chance to listen
<snap-l> Ok, just wanted to make a note in Google Analytics. ;)
<snap-l> I hope you all like the intro
<rick_h_> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/07/military-meltdown-monday-90k-military-usernames-hashes-released.ars
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's AWESOME.
<snap-l> (and by awesome, I mean freaking terrible)
<rick_h_> yea, 90k military passwords for potential reuse across any facing military sites
<rick_h_> sha-1 wheeee
<rick_h_> If there's a high ranking officer in there with 12345 as a password, I'm going to explode
<snap-l> rick_h_: Brace for it
<rick_h_> http://www.duosecurity.com/docs/top250gawker.txt better not match up
<greg-g> yeah, chances are there is one with 12345 (but maybe up to 8 if there are char limits) :)
<rick_h_> always have greg-g to help me feel better
<greg-g> 'tis what I'm here for
<Wolfger> qwertyui
<Wolfger> or for the touch-typists out there, a password meeting normal restrictions would be Asdfjkl;
<Wolfger> (one cap plus one non-alpha)
<rick_h_> Wolfger: however, if you reuse that password it's all for naught
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> Thank you, Revelation Password manager
 * Wolfger contemplates the name "Revelation" for a password manager....
<Wolfger> I don't want my passwords revealed :-p
<rick_h_> hah
<greg-g> only to you, my good boy
<windows> any one looking for work? OU has a sysadmin opening in the school of business. it's going to me mostly windows work. just fyi
<windows> and you get to work with me :)
<brousch> we would get to work with windows?
<brousch> is that supposed to be an incentive?
<rick_h_> heh, don't listen to brousch, he's a windows worker already :P
<brousch> But my goal is to phase it out of existence
<Wolfger> I'd be interested in that position, but something tells me OU wants a degreed applicant. And/or it won't pay comparable to my existing job :-p
<windows> yeah, 4 year degree is a must
<windows> working with windows is always a joy. :p
<snap-l> Speaking of Windows: https://identi.ca/notice/78611773
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> All it needs is a talking paperclip...
<Wolfger> Speaking of cutesy little crap... Why hasn't Ubuntu changed the "working" cursor to a rotating Ubuntu circle? That would be pretty slick...
<snap-l> Wolfger: I'm not sure why.
<snap-l> I'm surprised they didn't use the Atari ST Bee.
<snap-l> http://www.cafepress.com/atari_st_bee
<snap-l> That way you'd know your computer was a busy bee.
<Wolfger> groan
 * snap-l is regretting sticking witht eh Atari 8 bit for as long as I did
<snap-l> missed out on the classic mac, the Atari ST, etc.
<brousch> jcastro: which museum were you working at on dinosaur stuff?
<snap-l> Thanks for the RTs
<brousch> East siders with kids, how awesome is the Detroit Science Center? http://www.detroitsciencecenter.org/
<snap-l> brousch: I don't know. I haven't been to the DSC in a while
<snap-l> on the order of many many years.
<snap-l> brousch: Have you been to Impression 5?
<snap-l> http://impression5.org/index.php
<brousch> no
<snap-l> Last I was there, it was pretty damn awesome.
<snap-l> that's been over 10 years now, iirc.
<snap-l> But it's a very hands-on place.
<brousch> we were supposed to have a family outing to the detroit zoo this weekend, but people are dropping due to heat
<rick_h_> 10yrs and 10 budget cuts later ...
<brousch> so i'm trying to reroute it to someplace indoors before people just give up
<Wolfger> DSC is teh awesome
<Wolfger> no kids, but I have godchildren :-p
<Wolfger> and I love it just for the domed Imax movies
<_stink_> brousch: it's worth a trip, i think
<_stink_> depends on the age of the kids
<brousch> 3 - 4
<brousch> i think the animatronic dinos would be enough by themselves
<_stink_> yeah
<_stink_> it's a good alternative for sure
<_stink_> for the zoo
<greg-g> anyone know anything about http://www.typemock.com/
<greg-g> ?
<greg-g> I just got a personal email suggesting we (the LoCo) do a webinar about it
<greg-g> if you want a free license for it, let me know, I don't think we'll do the webinar as a group :)
<snap-l> Interesting.
<rick_h_> greg-g: not seen/heard of typemock
<snap-l> brousch: There's also the Cranbrook museum, but that's not as geared to young ones, if memory serves.
<greg-g> btw, I feel soooo much better with my Photos/Videos/Music now on my RAID 1 enclosure (only took about an hour last night after a couple failed first starts, figuring out the optimum setup)
<snap-l> greg-g: Very cool
<brousch> greg-g: and in the cloud, i assume
<greg-g> brousch: Photos and Music are on my colo, videos not (yet)
<greg-g> takes a lot longer to transfer video from laptop to USB drive than laptop to colo over wifi :)
<greg-g> erm, switch than
<brousch> even using U-M's ginormous pipes?
<greg-g> well, the wifi is artificially limited, and I can't plug my laptop into the ethernet since it is not U-M owned (that is library policy, I could when I worked in the Med School's Dept. of Enabling Technologies)
<Wolfger> so Python can do "normal" variable insertion of variables inside print statements, and also C-style formatted (i.e. %s to placehold for string variable) insertion? Why would you ever actually want to do the second of those two things?
<_stink_> what do you mean by the first of those things?
<Wolfger> print "There are", cars, "cars available."
<snap-l> Wolfger: it's useful for decimal formatting
<_stink_> ah, ok
<_stink_> formatting and keeping a string template around for repeated use
<_stink_> but now % substitution is deprecated, and .format() is what we're supposed to use.
<Wolfger> ah, I understand the latter. Example of decimal formatting?
<_stink_> http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html#string-formatting-operations
<_stink_> like number of places to the right of the decimal type stuff
<rick_h_> ok so two parts
<rick_h_> one, strings are immutable
<rick_h_> building a string with + is a performance kill
<rick_h_> never ever do that
<rick_h_> .format() is the bomb and does all the fancinesss you want in one function call
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/362/
<Wolfger> I want fanciness? ;-)
 * snap-l looks at all of his + concatenated strings.
<snap-l> What should I use in place of +, then?
<rick_h_> snap-l: .format()
<snap-l> blergh
<rick_h_> % is gone in pythong3
<snap-l> print "Sending of " + infile + " with file-type " + data_file_type + "  failed"
<snap-l> so instead that would be:
<rick_h_> print "Sending of {0} with filetype {1} failed.format(infile, data_filetype)
<snap-l> print "Sending of {} with file-type {} failed".format(infile,date_file_type)
<rick_h_> or
<rick_h_> print "Sending of {in} with filetype {type} failed.format(in=infile, type=data_filetype)
<rick_h_> I think works
<rick_h_> which is generally better since you can do things like
<rick_h_> data = {in: xxx, type: zzz, size: 999}
<rick_h_> and just do .format(**data)
<rick_h_> and it'll match any names that exist4
<rick_h_> /exist4/exist
<Wolfger> Now that is fairly sweet
<snap-l> Ah, interesting.
<rick_h_> but each time you do + it reallocates memeory and builds a new string
<rick_h_> so "test" + 3 + "bob" + var3 actually builds 4 different strings in memory
<Wolfger> ugly
<rick_h_> and you end up getting one back and the other 3 have to be garbage collected
<rick_h_> yea, the .format() is also good for bringing all your 'output messages' to a single file
<rick_h_> and doing things like
<rick_h_> print msgs.invalid_file.format(**data)
<rick_h_> poor mans internalization or string changes from client to client
<_stink_> rick_h_: so **some_dict is how you take an existing dict and pass it into a function expecting keyword args?
<rick_h_> right, it loops through the dict turning each key:val into kwargs
<_stink_> that.... is something i did not know
<_stink_> thanks
<rick_h_> yea, very handy for things like that
<rick_h_> cool when an object implements the dict protocol
<rick_h_> say you have user.name user.age user.sex
<rick_h_> you can fill out a whole user page with just html.format(**user)
<Wolfger> screw book learning, I'm just going to ask questions in-channel when rick_h_ is around :-)
<rick_h_> heh, well like all rules I don't always follow and I cheat and do + if I'm only doing it once in a string kind of thing
<rick_h_> all my functional tests have "should not be empty: " + str(response)
<rick_h_> because it's in tests and shorter than the .format() version
<Wolfger> Now is all that dict-passing goodness peculiar to Py3, or is it in Py2 as well?
<snap-l> It's in Py2
<Wolfger> Also, is there some point at which the size of the dict becomes an issue? I mean, if we're concerned about building 4 strings to print one, are we also concerned that we might wind up passing a 200 entry dict into a print that needs only 1 or 2 of those?
<rick_h_> well, string operations tend to be looped
<rick_h_> say you're outputting a csv file or soething
<rick_h_> you do 4 for each row of the file
<rick_h_> and yes, dicts can have overhead
<rick_h_> they'd about 5x more memeory overhead than a namedtuples
<rick_h_> which is the preferred way to keep data like that if you're going ot have tons of it
<rick_h_> the dict/object thing is handy since most data can/should be in that format anyway
<rick_h_> but anytime I have a ton of dicts in a script I start using namedtuples
<_stink_> what do you lose, then?  some dict methods?
<rick_h_> well namedtuples are only as big as you define them
<_stink_> ah, ok
<rick_h_> so if there are 4 properties, you can only have those 4
<rick_h_> you can't keep adding to them
<rick_h_> since they're immutable
<rick_h_> so you can't update the values as well
<rick_h_> like a counter or something
<rick_h_> they behave more like tuples, but with pretty names so it reads much nicer than
<_stink_> right, gotcha
<rick_h_> data[1], data[2]
<_stink_> mutability is the key difference
<rick_h_> it's data.filename, data.size
<rick_h_> rgr
<rick_h_> but if you're processing something known, file fields, data on a file you know, etc, it's much better performance
<_stink_> yep
<_stink_> cool, thanks
<rick_h_> and thus ends python 101 by @mitechie for the day lol
<rick_h_> homework is due thurs
<_stink_> my dog ate it
<rick_h_> psh, must be submitted to the server via git push
<mpiccinato> Anyone using GitHub pages at all?
<rick_h_> no, I looked into it, but doing it with sphinx docs seemed more compliacted
<Wolfger> wait, what?
<Wolfger> I missed the assignment.
<Wolfger> And now I need Git 101 to submit my homework
 * Wolfger cries
<rick_h_> that was a pre-req
<rick_h_> how did you get in without it?
<Wolfger> dunno. They just let me sign up
<Wolfger> OK, periscope down and back to work. P.S.: I hate stupid rules on the laptop that prevent the wifi from working the instant you plug a cable in, even though the cable is a direct connect to a device :-p
<snap-l> Wolfger: Are you using VPN? It's likely to keep you from routing crap around
<snap-l> All in the name of security.
<rick_h_> whoa, just got emailed out of the blue to present at 1DevDay detroit
<rick_h_> anyone know David Mckinnon?
<rick_h_> or ever been to 1DevDay?
<greg-g> neither
<ColonelPanic001> never heard of either
<rick_h_> http://1devdaydetroit.wordpress.com/ and https://sites.google.com/site/1devday/
<rick_h_> looks like
<rick_h_> cool, michigan based dev conf
<snap-l> rick_h_: That is awesome. When is it?
<rick_h_> No 4/5th
<rick_h_> Nov that is
<rick_h_> opening stuff the evening of 4th
<rick_h_> conf day is 5th
<Milyardo> rick_h_: What would you present? Alot of the topics seems to about Java
<mpiccinato> rick_h_: david is a good guy, runs the Detroit Java User Group and has setup a couple local dev events
<alpha-01> Hello?
<Blazeix> alpha-01: hey
<alpha-01> It works!
<alpha-01> hello blazeix
<Blazeix> hey, yep
<snap-l> Hello there.
<alpha-01> I was told this was the place to go to find local michiganders who might be able/willing to assist me with updating my OS
<alpha-01> any chance that might be any of you?
<snap-l> Um, that depends.
<alpha-01> i thought so, just wanted to get some sort of conversation started
<alpha-01> what would it depend on?
<snap-l> What OS you're talking about?
<alpha-01> ubuntu
<Blazeix> do you know what version?
<alpha-01> i read 11.04 was buggy when you try to thumbstick install it using sandisk
<alpha-01> so i'd be content with whatever would actually work
<Milyardo> You should be more specific about the version you're trying to upgrade from
<Blazeix> what version are you on now?
<alpha-01> i haven't been able to get a successful install since the first time i did this which was 8. something
<Blazeix> You can go to the "System > About" menu, I htink
<alpha-01> so i figure it is time to seek help from others and swallow that granual of pride
<alpha-01> 8.10
<alpha-01> i have a netbook so a live cd is out of the question...
<alpha-01> and while i can get the machine to boot from the usb, it hangs at one point and just won't go anyfurther, gives up, and loads 8.10
<snap-l> alpha-01: I don't believe you can upgrade from 8.10 to 11.04 directly
<snap-l> because the intervening versions aren't there
<alpha-01> i've also tried 10.04 to no avail
<snap-l> and you'll likely get messed up
<alpha-01> explains a lot
<Milyardo> alpha-01: What netbook?
<Milyardo> and what CD image are you trying to put on the UDB drive?
<Milyardo> *USB
<alpha-01> ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-i386
<snap-l> How are you putting the image on the USB key?
<alpha-01> sorry for the disappearing act
<alpha-01> ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-i386.iso
<alpha-01> anybody there?
<alpha-01> anybody?
<alpha-01> somebody, anybody!
<alpha-01> I am sorry for leaving you
<alpha-01> I won't ever do it again...
<Blazeix> alpha-01: don't worry about it, some of us are busy. are you using usb-creator to create the usb stick?
<alpha-01> "create a usb start up disk" part of ubuntu 8.10 admin apps.
<alpha-01> so i am guessing the likelihood of finding another michigander is a little less than likely. Know thought that I still heartilly appreciate your effort.
<alpha-01> ok, different question. what must i do to join an additional room?
<alpha-01> or channel as i believe they might be called here.
<_stink_> alpha-01: just do /join #whateveryouwant
<alpha-01> thanks stink
<_stink_> np
<Milyardo> "i am guessing the likelihood of finding another michigander is a little less than likely", I know Flint's a ghost town, but I don't think its that bad
<Milyardo> :)
<alpha-01> detroit is closer, but then again, how many detroiter's use ubuntu, and of that number, how many in this channel right now?
<alpha-01> :)
<_stink_> alpha-01: do you have another machine handy?  one with a CD ROM drive?
<_stink_> there are utilities for XP (and i guess for win7, not that i would know) that can make a bootable ubuntu USB drive
<_stink_> might be your best bet
<alpha-01> i might try that
<alpha-01> other machine has no internet though so it will take a couple extra steps
<alpha-01> thanks for the input
<rick_h_> Milyardo: something about Python. I'm token divisertiy :)
<rick_h_> mpiccinato: ah cool
<_stink_> alpha-01: yeah, gotta get the ISO file onto the other machine somehow.
<alpha-01> the regular install .iso?
<_stink_> yeah - those USB creation tools always want you to be able to point at the iso file on the local machine's hard drive somewhere.
<_stink_> and if that machine's not on the internets, you'll have to shuffle it via USB or something.
<alpha-01> i have that already
<_stink_> cool.  you just have to get it on the machine you'll create the bootable USB from.
<alpha-01> ubuntu has an app to convert it to bootable usb form.
<alpha-01> but it doesn't work
<alpha-01> it gets stuck and then gives up and boots regular
<snap-l> Have you verified the media?
<alpha-01> ??
<alpha-01> totally verified...?
<rick_h_> greg-g: ?? you going back to CC?
<greg-g> rick_h_: yep!
<rick_h_> greg-g: dude! quit doing awesome stuff :P
<greg-g> alright, email writing time, transition period begins
<rick_h_> going back to CA then?
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h_> boooooo! but yay
<greg-g> :/ :)
<brousch> wait, moving to california?
<brousch> alpha-01: there is quite a large linux user group in detroit
<brousch> snap-l is one of the board members or something
<alpha-01> really?
<alpha-01> i thought snap-l was from DC
<greg-g> nope, our snap-l is in Detroit, board member of MUG (http://mug.org)
<brousch> most of the active users in here are in detroit/ann arbor
<alpha-01> nice
<brousch> alpha-01: when you emailled me, i assumed you were in west mi
<greg-g> MUG is going on right now, so that is why he isn't responding, he just finished giving a preso
<brousch> heh
<alpha-01> wow
<alpha-01> where is MUG?
<waldo323> we're in Southfield now
<alpha-01> lol
<rick_h_> http://www.mug.org/map/
<greg-g> :)
<waldo323> at the engineering society of detroit office
<alpha-01> I'm hanging out in madison heights and live in west bloomfield
<alpha-01> yay oakland county
<waldo323> :)
<alpha-01> well, if tyrok led me astray i may i have to meet up with one of you at some point.
<brousch> is this still the unofficial MUG channel or did they get their own?
<brousch> tyrok is the man
<waldo323> we have one but this remains more active
<alpha-01> very helpful
<rick_h_> brousch: mug has its own channel
<rick_h_> but this is official back channel not to be used on the projector :)
<waldo323> #mugorg
<brousch> my dad just got wimax out here in the boondocks between ravenna and sparta
<brousch> i'm hooking up the rest of his network
<alpha-01> intrepid ibex is dead, so he recommended replacing intrepid references with karmic in the etc/apt/sources.list and then upgrading which seems to be working so far.
<alpha-01> not to the reboot yet, we shall see...
<brousch> hm, risky
<brousch> hopefully you backed up first
<alpha-01> he had be back up
<alpha-01> nothing else seemed to work, so hopefully this does the trick.
<brousch> i recommend you back up your home dir and install the newest ubuntu. otherwise you'll have to upgrade through 9.04, 9.10, 10.04, 10.10, 11.04
<alpha-01> tried installing 11.04 but i guess it is buggy with a sandisk thumbstick
<alpha-01> then tried 10.10 to no avail.
<snap-l> greg-g: WHere in CC are you headed?
<snap-l> and COngratulations!
<snap-l> And yes, I'm in Michigan.
<alpha-01> hopefully after this i can jump to 10.10, otherwise it will be upgrade after upgrade.
<greg-g> snap-l: where in CC? or where in CA? in CA: Bay Area (live in SF-city, work in Mt. View)
<greg-g> in CC: well, working on OER stuff
<greg-g> blog post forthcoming
<rick_h_> greg-g: did you see that MSU stuff from Titus I linked you to hte other day?
<rick_h_> CC course stuff for the genome mapping stuff
<greg-g> yeah! that was really awesome looking
<rick_h_> not sure if that fits your stuff, but figured it was cool none the less
<greg-g> yeah, definitely related
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-13
<snap-l> greg-g: Very cool
<snap-l> Was asking re: CC position
<snap-l> So that means we're losing a leader then. ;(
<snap-l> (sniff sniff)
<alpha-01> any reccomendations before i reboot?
<greg-g> cross your fingers? (I have no idea what's going on)
<alpha-01> ubuntu 8.10
<alpha-01> can't upgrade or update for that matter
<alpha-01> tyrok helped me try to fix it
<alpha-01> replaced intrepid with karmic
<alpha-01> and then ran un update
<alpha-01> we will see what happens
<alpha-01> goodnight everybody!
<greg-g> good luck!
<alpha-01> an error occured
<alpha-01> please run packet manager from the right-click menu or apt-get in a terminal too see what is wrong
<alpha-01> the error message was 'error: brokencount > 0' This usually means your installed packages have unmet dependencies
<alpha-01> should that worry me?
<alpha-01> the exclamation point on the big red down arrow suggests it should.
<snap-l> alpha-01: I think your best bet instead of trying to upgrade is to install anew (after backing up your home directory)
<alpha-01> how to install new?
<alpha-01> that is what i wanted to do in the first place
<snap-l> You'd need to either get a CD or a USB key with the OS installed on it
<snap-l> WHere are you located?
<alpha-01> i did that (usb) but it doesn't work.
<alpha-01> oakland county
<alpha-01> madison heights atm.
<snap-l> If you want, come to CHC tomorrow
<alpha-01> chc?
<snap-l> we're meeting at the Caribou Coffee on 14 / Campbell road from 8-10pm
<snap-l> I'll see if we can get you sorted out
<alpha-01> lol
<snap-l> bring a 1GB USB key
<alpha-01> 8gb, no prob
<snap-l> I'll make sure I have a few ISO images on this machine
<alpha-01> i'll see what i can do, when is the next meeting if i can't make it?
<snap-l> WE meet every WEdnesday.
<alpha-01> wow, ok
<alpha-01> 14 & campbell, i will see what i can do. thanks again!
<snap-l> np
<_stink_> greg-g: yay, congrats!
<_stink_> but DIAF for moving to CA.
<_stink_> :P
<snap-l> he
<greg-g> :P
<snap-l> h
<TeamXlink> Does anyone know if AT&T block port 25, I know Comcast does.
<rick_h_> http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/12/one-third-of-iphone-users-mistakenly-think-they-have-4g/
<rick_h_> :)
<snap-l> Yeah, I heard about that last night
<snap-l> Even though it clearly says on the phone "3G"
<Wolfger> you expect iPhone users to read?
<rick_h_> I thought iphone users were the smart "appreciate great ux" types
<rick_h_> not morons :)
<brousch> rick_h_: i sent you a PM
<Wolfger> rick_h_: well... I live with a couple iPhone lovers, so i'll refrain from comment. :-)
<brousch> but that means you're especially qualified to comment
<Wolfger> Having used an iPhone for a month, and then switching to Android, I can't for the life of me understand why *anybody* would want an iPhone.
<Wolfger> It was about on par (some things better than, some things worse) with my BB Curve
 * Wolfger expects tjagoda to pop up any second now that BB hath been invoked
<snap-l> greg-g: So, when is your going-away party?
<snap-l> Man, losing jcastro to FL for a year, and losing greg-g to CA
<jcastro> permanently?
<snap-l> He's going to flock with the CC crew
<jcastro> ah
<Wolfger> that flocker
<Wolfger> rofl-copter: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/07/13/1317252/Zuckerberg-Quits-Google-Over-Privacy-Concerns?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
<snap-l> I think it was more that it was embarrassing that he was the most followed person on Google+
<greg-g> snap-l: July 31st, 4-8pm, BBQ in our backyard
<greg-g> announcement will be mailed/emailed/bloged shortly
<rick_h_> booooo!
<rick_h_> will be in pyohio july 31st
<greg-g> oh right! :(
<greg-g> well, my parents' schedules kinda trumped all others given they're A) my parents and B) missed the ceremony :)
<snap-l> Yeah, me too
<snap-l> bah, I say, bah.
<rick_h_> bah bah!
<greg-g> well, given enough time in my schedule, we should do something another time ebfore I go, then
<snap-l> <# reading jajrgon filled slides about how awesome APIs are
<snap-l> Seriously, you'd think it was the second coming of Christ via JSON and REST
<rick_h_> woo! lord JSON I bow to thee!
<rick_h_> you need me to write up the JSON bible side of things?
<snap-l> Nah, i think we have that covered.
<snap-l> Just make sure you pencil in Revelations at some point
<snap-l> And lo did the beast speak along the sevel layers of the TCPIP stack
<snap-l> s/sevel/seven
<snap-l> Also, video is hot
<rick_h_> ??
<snap-l> rick_h_: You'd have to see these slides
<snap-l> Basically they're all a-giddy that video and a better customer experience can be delivered via these APIs.
<snap-l> and in return, there's gold in them thar APIs.
<snap-l> Y'know, the exuberance before the douche.
<greg-g> lol
<snap-l> "I can pay my bills online" becomes "God, I have to use this piece of shit system to pay my bills online"
<rick_h_> huh? video to pay bills?
<rick_h_> oh, you mean your apis for transferring video?
<Wolfger> video of you signing the check and mailing it
<rick_h_> what?! a failwhale?
<rick_h_> haven't seen one of those in a while
<Wolfger> I saw one the last time I tried to go to twitter, actually
<Wolfger> just this past weekend
<snap-l> yeah, that sort of thing.
<Wolfger> they just wanted to remind us they are made of fail...
<snap-l> And now to add a group on the work social network.
<snap-l> ya new bosses.
<snap-l> It's essentially sharepoint, afaict.
<Wolfger> OK, seriously? People are getting upset that federal law is making inefficient lightbulbs go away?
<Wolfger> People are *stockpiling* inefficient lightbulbs so that they don't have to go out and buy efficient ones?
<Wolfger> I am a hair's width away from losing all faith in humanity.
<_stink_> funny, that's almost verbatim a conversation that just took place in another channel
<_stink_> including the near loss of faith in humanity
<Wolfger> ...and a smidgin of faith is restored.
<Wolfger> ...and lost again when I see that Rodney King getting arrested without being beaten by maglights is somehow worthy of the national news.
<Wolfger> I mean, these lightbulb people.... do they not realize that the energy efficiency of cars has been federally regulated for a long, long time now?
<rick_h_> but you can go buy an old muscle car if you want
<Wolfger> and that this is a *GOOD* thing for humanity?
<rick_h_> I hate the stupid lights. They take too long to warm up
<Wolfger> you can go buy an old incandescent if you want
<rick_h_> I've started moving LED, but at $30+ a pop...a slow process
<Wolfger> but nobody can manufacture one
<rick_h_> heh, so they go the way of oil?
<Wolfger> and nobody will manufacture that muscle car either
<rick_h_> a limited supply commodity
<rick_h_> there are places you can buy a muscle car :)
<rick_h_> restoration at its best
<Wolfger> man-u-facture
<rick_h_> right, but you can't manufacture the old bulbs, you can't exactly 'restore' them
<Wolfger> heh :-)
<rick_h_> I'm just arguing there are sources for getting one and won't for the other
<Wolfger> ok, I missed that point
<Wolfger> LED is ftw. I switched all my bulbs that aren't on dimmer switches to CFL years ago
<rick_h_> yea, hate the CFL slow times
<rick_h_> in the bathroom the mirror lights take a while to warm up and that's not what you want when the wife jumps in for a quick make-up check
<rick_h_> so half are CFL and half are not so that you kind of get the best of both worlds
<Wolfger> do LED bulbs work on dimmers? I might buy some of those, but they are $$$
<rick_h_> not sure, I use one in a light stand with two settings
<rick_h_> and they flicker on the low setting
<brousch> Wolfger: so start making old style light bulbs in your garage
<Wolfger> brousch: I don't want old style bulbs
<Wolfger> they are the suck
<brousch> but you can sell them to people who do want them
<snap-l> It's because pepole are afraid of CFLs
<Wolfger> If I find out who still wants them, I am just as likely to stab them as sell them something. That would be bad.
<snap-l> because they're flourescent bulbs, and can possibly cause headaches in people
<snap-l> Which of course means that nobody will buy things like LED bulbs, or even improved incandescent bulbs.
<brousch> no, fluorescent sounds like fluorine, which is bad for you, except your teeth
<ptenhoopen> There's also the mercury if they break.
<ptenhoopen> Freaks people out.
<ptenhoopen> I replaced all of my regular use bulbs with CFL years ago.
<ptenhoopen> I'd like to use LEDs but haven't justified the cost yet.
<ptenhoopen> Some of my CFLs have burned out recently.  Seems too early after installation as I thought they last longer.
<greg-g> ptenhoopen: huh, wow, I've never had one wear out yet, they've all just been broken when the lamp falls over :)
<ptenhoopen> It could have been the brand.  I got them at Menards.
<ptenhoopen> The brand was something starting with an F I think.
<ptenhoopen> I've switched to Sylvania for new ones.
<ptenhoopen> It was Feit brand.
<brousch> mine fail at the same rate as regular bulbs
<snap-l> I had a CFL burn out in the bathroom
<snap-l> actually, several
<rick_h_> mine do as well, I'm guessing they're testing in some perfect electrical setup
<snap-l> Yeah, Feit is Fail
<rick_h_> no led ones have failed yet
<rick_h_> so curious if they'll hold for a long while
<rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVvRWVoHDb8&feature=player_embedded
<rick_h_> that's just crazy
<snap-l> Yeah, that's been making the rounds.
<snap-l> AWesome stuff
<snap-l> makes me want to try that out, without the messy business of jumping out of a plane.
<rick_h_> you know there were some bruises in the practice of that lol
<Wolfger> speaking of loss of faith in humanity: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/1107/leading-off-0711/content.11.html
<rick_h_> greg-g: boot is in order
<rick_h_> kthx
<snap-l> Wolfger: That picture totally needs the Dixie horn from the Dukes of Hazzard.
<snap-l> Also, way too many people in that photo need T-shirts
<gamerchick02> ugh. that's... whoa.
<rick_h_> boot worthy
<rick_h_> send him away greg-g
<Wolfger> final straw in the faith-in-humanity game... going to men's room and guy standing at the urinal is talking on his cell phone. At the urinal.
<Wolfger> with about 4 other people in there
<Wolfger> we should initiate a nuclear war with Russia now, before things get any worse.
<gamerchick02> why do people do that?
<gamerchick02> women do it in the stalls too.
<Wolfger> If you want to talk in the bathroom at home, fine... you're only being rude to the person on the line, and if you're careful they might not even know. But talking in a public restroom just shows a completely lack of respect for everybody except yourself.
<Wolfger> and a lack of sense, too.... "omg, this phone call is so important, I must have it RIGHT NOW!"
<gamerchick02> but is it worth accidentally dropping the phone in the toilet?
<Blazeix> I don't really mind people doing that from a rudeness perspective, but I would never do it simply due to sanitary reasons
<gamerchick02> it's bloody rude. the bathroom is the ONE place i should be free from bloody phone calls.
<gamerchick02> and yes, unsanitary. ick ick ick.
<snap-l> This gives me a great idea for a prank
<snap-l> "Yeah, yeah doc, it's [unzip] Ahhh, yes, a little uncomfortable. No, no, the swelling's gone down..."
<snap-l> "Right, well the red spots are starting to go away"
<snap-l> and see if anyone tries to sneak a peak
<snap-l> peek, rather
<gamerchick02> ooooh. you're evil, snap-l. in a good way.
<brousch> make loud fart noises
<Wolfger> I always try to fart and flush when people are on phones in the restroom
<Wolfger> I'm one tiny bit of restraint from just flat out yelling "Why would anybody talk on the phone while they're taking a dump?"
<waldo323_> wow started reading at the wrong place.
<ColonelPanic001> greg-g: I saw on twitter you're pregnant. Congrats.
<Wolfger> Welcome, waldo323_
<ColonelPanic001> and yeah, can't stand phones in bathrooms. Ugh
<waldo323_> oh, Wolfger i could have sworn i saw you on my way to work the other day
<Wolfger> could be... My Jeep is rather distinctive
<Wolfger> I've been working in Auburn Hills all week.
<waldo323_> ah, hmm no i was a big truck, around davison and i75
<waldo323_> erm *it
<Wolfger> Nope. Not I.
<snap-l> http://deliciousagony.com/
<snap-l> Specifically http://208.53.158.48:9564/listen.pls demands your attention.
<Wolfger> Huzzah, Ubuntu Bug Squad!
<Wolfger> I confirmed a bug in February of 2009. Today (the very next time anybody touched it) it was marked as "won't fix".
<snap-l> Wolfger: Awesome. What was the bug?
<gamerchick02> wolfer, i hate it when that happens
<gamerchick02> gotta restart. bbiab, new kernel.
<Wolfger> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/41211
<Wolfger> Now that I look at it again, I think it's not even a valid reason for marking won't fix.
<Wolfger> although I am quite certain they won't fix it...
<snap-l> OK, at least it did get some attention, though
<snap-l> but is it still a problem?
<Wolfger> The person who filed the bug has probably bought a new laptop since then
<snap-l> problem solved. ;)
<gamerchick02> what was the bug? sorry, had to restart.
<Wolfger> gamerchick02: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/41211
<gamerchick02> thanks
<Wolfger> Bug Squad kinda feels like Amway to me.
<gamerchick02> it's frustrating that you report a bug like you're supposed to and then nothing.
<gamerchick02> and they wonder why people don't file bugs in the first place.
<Wolfger> People in it talk it up like it's a great thing to do, but it doesn't seem to get anywhere when you're in, and then they just bring in fresh blood to replace the disillusioned.
<gamerchick02> 2006?
<gamerchick02> why is something open from 2006?
<gamerchick02> that's 5 years ago. that's like an eon in computer terms
<Wolfger> 5 years ago, Twitter was born
<Wolfger> I was really hoping Google would give better results on "five years ago"
<gamerchick02> heh
<snap-l> Wolfger: Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq3EZhT3G7U
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=louXPUW7tHU <- Also...
<Wolfger> Yeah.... Firewall.
<Wolfger> I'll watch when I get home.
<snap-l> David Bowie: Five Years
<snap-l> one studio, one live.
<Wolfger> Cool. Not familiar with that song. At least not by name
<Wolfger> still have Fashion stuck in my head after sitting through last week's So You Think You Can Dance with my wife...
<snap-l> You'll have this stuck in your head.
 * snap-l fires up Bowie: Stage
<greg-g> ColonelPanic001: thanks!
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<Wolfger> snap-l: You ever get a Spotlight award that looks like a big chrome d6?
<Wolfger> I want a second one, so I can play craps...
 * Wolfger is bored at work again
<brousch> start drawing up plans for your ren faire themed brewery/retro lightbulb factory
<Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/135/as-a-software-engineer-who-should-i-be-following-on-twitter
<Blazeix> as a software engineer, you should recognize that google+ is the future, noob.
<Wolfger> Heh.
<Wolfger> it was closed, or I would have told them to follow rick_h_
<snap-l> Wolfger: Yeah, I did
<bmcmahon> http://www.thejournal.ie/woman-died-from-allergic-reaction-to-sex-with-dog-172620-Jul2011/
<greg-g> dude, come on
<greg-g> I'm not even opening that link
<bmcmahon> everyday I loose a little faith in humanity
<greg-g> first Wolfger now you? :)
<snap-l> I'm there as well (losing faith in humanity)
<bmcmahon> wait he posted it?
<greg-g> bmcmahon: no, he posted another link that was a bit "off color"
<bmcmahon> the urinal one or the twitter one?
<snap-l> Gah, I need to figure out ow to make a million dollars busking or something
<bmcmahon> greg-g: no imagine that as the next mortal kombat finishing move
<bmcmahon> that will really piss the parents off
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/tv/view/7261/suicide-silece-you-only-live-once-official-video
<brousch> buggery, now there's a word
<snap-l> I think every generation feels they're the last generation on this Earth not because they want the legacy of being the final generation; it's because they look at the stupid perking up in the next generation and hope "Dear God, make it stop"
<gamerchick02> heh, snap-l
<ColonelPanic001> probably
<gamerchick02> buggery is a great word, brousch.
<ColonelPanic001> .-.
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<gamerchick02> what's up, ColonelPanic001?
<snap-l> You know, it really irritates me when people offer something via bittorrent, and don't have anyone sending anything
<gamerchick02> ugh
<gamerchick02> jerks
<snap-l> esp. since it's the King Crimson site
<gamerchick02> "people, what a bunch of bastards"
<snap-l> They have their live shows available, and one of the options for download is torrent
<gamerchick02> that's good.
<waldo323_> lol
<gamerchick02> but nobody seeding?
<snap-l> Just sitting there idle
<snap-l> same problem with Jamendo
<gamerchick02> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<Dr_Cli> hello
<gamerchick02> howdy.
<snap-l> Got a list of 67 Peers
<ColonelPanic001> sue them all.
<snap-l> but apparently none of them are able to send me anything
<gamerchick02> i first read that as a list of "67 Beers"
<gamerchick02> and i was like, SWEET, 67 BEERS!!
<gamerchick02> but no.
<ColonelPanic001> take one down, pass it around...
<gamerchick02> 66 bottles of beer on the wall
<ColonelPanic001> proceed
<bmcmahon> perditious was a word at one time, now it's gone and it would fit very well into our conversation about stupid human beahviour
<snap-l> At this rate, I can download the individual files faster
<gamerchick02> my quote still stands. "People, what a bunch of bastards."
<bmcmahon> gamerchick02: I see your 'bunch of bastards' and raise you 'a bag of assholes'
<ColonelPanic001> bundle of idiots!
<gamerchick02> i was quoting the IT Crowd. but you have a point.
<gamerchick02> :)
<bmcmahon> rick_h_: have you played with $.proxy this shit is awesome
<gamerchick02> "I came here to drink milk and kick ass, and I just finished my milk."
<snap-l> Hey, now it's working
<gamerchick02> heh. complaining to the internet works, i guess
<snap-l> Thank you, Internet.
<TheInternet> you're welcome
<Blazeix> The elders of the Internet heard your complaint.
<gamerchick02> they did!!
<snap-l> And it finished. :)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Re: the Spotlight D6, I made the joke that I could use it to see what I'd be that day.
<snap-l> (This was an award that you could purchase with a certificate from your manager that was essentially a giant "Things Remembered"-like d6
<snap-l> One side had "Spotlight" on it (which was the name of the program)
<snap-l> and the other sides had different one-word leadership phrases (drawing ablank on them)
<snap-l> shit like leadership, courage... (my cube is in the garage, and I haven't seen it in years)
<snap-l> It was like a d6 of motivational bullshit.
<gamerchick02> lol, motivational bullshit
<gamerchick02> sounds like my last job
<gamerchick02> gotta log out and back in. something to do with my mouse, gah
<gamerchick02> why does my mouse do that?
<gamerchick02> it'll just disappear from my main laptop screen and only be visible on the external
<Wolfger> I keep my cube handy on my desktop. If anybody ever goes postal, I'm-a try an' knock his brains out with it.
<Wolfger> I'm convinced it's deadly if your aim doesn't suck
<snap-l> Wolfger: trie dat
<snap-l> true dat
<snap-l> greg-g: This is what I downloaded earlier: https://www.dgmlive.com/archive.htm?artist=16&show=1301
<snap-l> Got Gavin Harrison on drums
<greg-g> snap-l: looks great
<waldo323> hi
<greg-g> rick_h_: dangerous question (time-wise for me): If I were to try out awesome, is if easy or hard to switch back and forth between it and gnome without losing much functionality of either (ie: during a transition period)
<greg-g> yo yo waldo323
<rick_h_> easy, you just log out, pick the other DE from the drop down
<rick_h_> and relog in
<rick_h_> all the apps/etc are ok
<rick_h_> the keybindings might drive you bonkers for a bit back/forth
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> that's ok
<greg-g> I can deal with that
<greg-g> so, cool, I might give it a while sometime :)
<rick_h_> but yea, it just shows up as a DE option in the bottom of the gdm login
<greg-g> s/while/whirl/
<rick_h_> definitely :) I've got samples if you need anything
<rick_h_> config/etc
<rick_h_> autostart
<greg-g> in your github?
<greg-g> doesn't look like it
<rick_h_> no, it's part of my personal files, havnfe't gotten it up there
<rick_h_> but I can put up some things for you
<greg-g> cool, no rush, I have no time right now, but maybe after I get to SF
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-14
<snap-l> GOod morning
<rick_h_> morning
<Wolfger> morning
<snap-l> Anyone got a sec to give a promo a listen? http://ubuntuone.com/p/14QM/
<snap-l> Tell me what you think
<rick_h_> cool, needs a bit more oomph in the voice, sounds a little "sssh we're in a library"
<rick_h_> but loving the concept
<snap-l> Well, I'm trying to do it quietly so as not to disturb JoDee. :)
<greg-g> I forget who i got this from, but this is a pretty good read: http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/07/what-is-html5.html
<rick_h_> lol, so you were in a library! I knew it!
<snap-l> Maybe I'll re-record the voice later.
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I mean small tweak, nothing killer against
<snap-l> Heh, I managed to wake her anyway
<snap-l> she told me she doesn't like being woken up that way.
<rick_h_> that's ok, she can have my wake up
<rick_h_> there will be a dead cat in the house before nightfall
<rick_h_> greg-g: man he's hung up on audio/video element, probably the least used thnigs at this point still
<greg-g> rick_h_: it isn't about "now" it is about "when we get our act together and move forward"
<rick_h_> yea, true
<rick_h_> but html5 is the big rage 'now' while we're still not able to get our act together
<greg-g> "HTML5, when used both as the 21st century web suggests and as the original HTML specification allowed, is best at interconnecting things. If you view your pages as a collection of content, and let go of the rather egotistical idea that all that content has to be your own, then all of the new features of HTML5 discussed so far are hugely important. You can pull in audio and video and manipulate that audio and video as if it were your own. You can o
<greg-g> the main point up until I had to stop to check email :)
<rick_h_> heh and see that point I was kind of going against.
<rick_h_> I don't get how having a container tag audio/video let's you 'own' things more
<rick_h_> I guess that you can embed it on your page?
<rick_h_> but you could before
<greg-g> yeah yeah, I'm more hanging on the "incorporate content from around the web" idea
<greg-g> well, and manipulate it with javascript/css more easily
<rick_h_> ok, so it's just *easier* to embed that into your post since you don't need flash knowledge/etc?
<greg-g> not just embed, do things with
<rick_h_> I mean his point about the video guy only needing video know-how and the web guy only needing web know-how I think is a bit off base, but ok
<greg-g> sure
<rick_h_> hmm, guess I'm not creative enough to think of how to do more with video on a page than hit play with it. If it's via flash/html5 tag isn't that different
<rick_h_> just that the pause button is a JS link vs a flash button
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/14QM/
<snap-l> Revised. (Flush cache)
<rick_h_> Could not locate object
<snap-l> Bah
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/14QX/
<rick_h_> like it
<snap-l> rick_h_: Thanks!
<rick_h_> greg-g: ping
<greg-g> rick_h_: pong
<rick_h_> so I thought the interest idea
<rick_h_> but then realized that if you get paid once at the start of the month
<rick_h_> you'd set into savings and it'd be earning interest, 2x the amount of the bi-weekly
<rick_h_> so I don't htink you'd end up with more interest
<greg-g> yeah, people usually get paid at beginning of months?
<rick_h_> since you'd be putting the whole amount in at the start vs two parts spaced out
<rick_h_> well I did, I started work, got paid at the start of the next month
<rick_h_> so I had all my bills in the first week of the month
<rick_h_> by the end of that week, put $$ in savings and that was it for the next 2X days
<rick_h_> I guess if you started, you'd get your first paychgeck after 2wk vs a month
<greg-g> right,t hat is nice
<rick_h_> so that one paycheck would be in the bank for interest faster, but the rest wouldn't
<rick_h_> but now both my wife and I get paid bi-weekly
<rick_h_> and we're on opposite weeks
<rick_h_> so it's kind of crazy
<greg-g> but, looking at my paycheck, I get paid on 7/1 for my work from 6/1-6/30, so paid after the work (which is kind of obvious). So, in theory, they are earning interest on it all that month of June while I get nothing
<rick_h_> because we get a check each week and planning out the bills is more of a mess
<rick_h_> greg-g: right, but once you get your paycheck on july1 it's 2x the other checks
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> rick_h_: Savings interest is generally computed quarterly
<rick_h_> meh, I guess maybe. I'm not smart enough for these things lol.
<rick_h_> snap-l: ah true
<snap-l> so no difference between bi-monthly or monthly
<greg-g> me neither!
<greg-g> I need help
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> for me I just loved the once a month dealing with bills
<rick_h_> now I have to do it several times a month to keep tabs and it drives me bonkers
<rick_h_> I hate doing that stuff, so fewer times was better
<snap-l> greg-g: You have a child coming. Twice a month is probably good until you get your bills in order
<greg-g> snap-l: fair point with that
<greg-g> rick_h_: most definitely
<rick_h_> yea, but if you're builing savings it's your safety cache, not the bi-weekly
<snap-l> Then you don't get tempted with "OMG! I have ${BIGNUM} left"
<rick_h_> just because you've got another check coming doesn't put more $$ in there
<snap-l> instead of ${BIGNUM} has to last the entire month
<snap-l> rick_h_: True
<rick_h_> although I probably use savings wrong, I use it like a computer memory cache often
<snap-l> Personally I like bi-weekly
<snap-l> rick_h_: I use it like swap
<snap-l> which is wrong
<rick_h_> I like to keep the checking what I can get rid of and try to end up close to 0 by the end of the month
<rick_h_> hah! poor greg-g, we're no hlep
<rick_h_> help
<snap-l> I can recommend using Moneydance to help sort out the bills and such
<snap-l> and keep a checkbook
<snap-l> I spend about once a week downloading .qif files from my checking / savings / paypal
<snap-l> and then once a month (usually) I'll download the credit card .qifs
<snap-l> That way, when it comes time to reconcile, it's not such a pain in the ass.
<snap-l> and usually catches things before they become a problem.
<rick_h_> yea, that's more time than I can stand putting into things. But I do it wrong I know
<snap-l> ie: When JoDee buys something and forgets to give me the receipt.
<snap-l> or when I don't get a receipy.
<greg-g> we use mint.com right now, I know I know, but it works good enough for use to keep tabs on things
<rick_h_> won't hear anything from me
<rick_h_> whatever works and all
<greg-g> mostly I feel weird about giving intuit access to all of my banking/savings/401(k) accounts
<greg-g> read-only, of course, but still
<brousch> there are floss alternatives
<Williek13> I need help with a Ubuntu Server....does anyone know how to setup LDAP/Kerberos
<greg-g> brousch: any recommendations?
<rick_h_> heh, man you start out guns blazing
<rick_h_> Sorry Williek13, use ldap, and tinkered, but not in the realm to help debug a kerberos setup
<brousch> greg-g: i think gnucash is the most favored program for personal finance stuff http://www.gnucash.org/
<snap-l> brousch: Only if you want to learn double accounting to balance your checkbook
<brousch> ldap makes my head hurt
<Williek13> i agree brousch its a pain lol
<greg-g> Williek13: do you happen to be on the U-M campus?
<Williek13> how do you personal message? im new to this IRC
<brousch> don't worry, no one will beat you up if you're a wolverine
<greg-g> depends on the software you're using, usually a double click on the user name of the user you want to PM with
<brousch> now if you're a spartan ...
<rick_h_> Williek13: honestly, no need to PM
<rick_h_> just chat
<Williek13> oh i thought red was a pm
<Williek13> lol
<Williek13> i say go blue
<greg-g> :)
<Williek13> but i actually go to SVSU for college
<greg-g> ahh, cool, I wish gamerchick was online, she is also from there
<Williek13> ah ic where abouts are you?
<Williek13> hey does anyone know wolfger thats on
<snap-l> yeah, we know him
<greg-g> Williek13: I'm in A2, most are either Detroit or suburb of Detroit, with a few on the west coast (most notaly brousch )
<jjesse> west side rulez
<Williek13> ah ic thanks for the info greg-g.....
<Williek13> snap is wolf on the westside? i think i used to play an online game with him...the name sounds familiar
<greg-g> oh, right, and jjesse, our own co-author of the Official Ubuntu Book
<greg-g> Wolfger: is on the east side, actually
<Williek13> ah ic wrong guy then...thanks
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvep1WaUmOM
<jjesse> so jcastro is moving to florida?
<jjesse> retiring early?
<brousch> he'll come back with gout and osteoporosis
<snap-l> You guys are mean. ;)
<jjesse> will he start going to dinner at 3pm as well?
<jrwren> he doesn't already have gout?
<jjesse> ouch
<jrwren> i have gout. it can be painful, but its easy to manage
<jrwren> greg-g: congrats on your marriage
<snap-l> You guys are mean. ;)
<snap-l> Bah, sorry... history repost
<greg-g> jrwren: thanks buddy
<Milyardo> snap-l: I use GNUCash for my personal accounting, and while double entry accounting is counter-intuitive to the uninitiated, IMO its the only way to do accounting correctly
<greg-g> Milyardo: but what if I don't want to do accounting, but instead just keep on top of my finances
<Milyardo> greg-g: "just keep on top of my finances" isn't a clearly defined goal, what is "just keep on top of my finances" and what does it achieve?
<snap-l> Milyardo: True, ad I used Gnucash for a while. And I came back to Moneydance.
<jrwren> greg-g: i use a spreadsheet :)
<rick_h_> I'm with jrwren there
<rick_h_> it's getting pretty wide these days
<jrwren> i use rows instead of columns
<jrwren> and new sheets every month which backref to hte previous month sheet
<rick_h_> I have bills and their due dates/amounts down in rows
<rick_h_> and each month is two new columns, amount paid and date paid
<rick_h_> ah, sheets, fancy! :)
<jrwren> oh, you track payments, I don't do that.
<rick_h_> yea, so I can go back adn tell going up/down/did I pay/not
<jrwren> this is more like expected and actual cash flow tracking
<rick_h_> without having to search the band stuff
<rick_h_> /band/bank
<rick_h_> yea, that's how I run things I guess
<jrwren> all depends on what you want to know.
<jrwren> i couldn't answer "did I pay that" as quickly as you.
<jrwren> but I can answer "how much do we usually spend on X"
<snap-l> And that's why I use moneydance and .qif files
<snap-l> I can verify what the bank thinks I have quickly
<jrwren> quicken?
<rick_h_> yea, I only track the big things
<rick_h_> I don't track every gas/coffee purchase and categorize it
<snap-l> jrwren: Moneydance. It's one of the few Java programs I use
<jrwren> but bank things you have quicken or quickly?
<snap-l> jrwren: Moneydance does .qif imports. Quickly is how fast I can import them. ;)
<jrwren> oh.
<Milyardo> snap-l: Moneydance looks like its double entry as well
<jrwren> my reading fail.
<snap-l> Milyardo: It is, but it's not a fiercely pedantic as Gnucash
<snap-l> at least Gnucash felt very pedantic to me
<greg-g> Milyardo: sorry, boss walked in. By that I mean: make sure I have enough money to pay bills each month in the right accounts.
<Milyardo> snap-l: Thats probably the difference in localizations between different types of users: ie, a CPA vs everyon else
<jrwren> sounds like we have some great specs to go write a personal accounting and finance tool that has never been written before :)
<brousch> i also use a spreadsheet with columns for due, paid, etc. when a bill is paid, i copy it to a new row and advance the due date a month.
<_stink_> jrwren++
<_stink_> i'd chip in to that
<jrwren> hehe, my problem is I don't write GUI in anything that is easily run on linux, so I can't write this said app :)
<snap-l> how... convenient.
<_stink_> jrwren: ok, you write the back end. :)
<ptenhoopen> I'm going to start analyzing my spending from each month so I can see where it went.  I'll probably just use a spreadsheet for it and to generate trending graphs.
<Wolfger> I'm surprised snap-l admitted to knowing me. :-)
<brousch> ptenhoopen: have you heard of chext? it's a startup from ryan montgomery in the momentum program. i think it does something like that
<ptenhoopen> No, I haven't.
<ptenhoopen> Free?
 * Wolfger notices jrwren has been silent since it was pointed out he could write the back-end code without any GUI skills... ;-)
<snap-l> I <3 how I try to answer this guys question, and haven't heard anything back. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6601107/how-to-send-a-file-through-soap-in-python/6631965#6631965
<ptenhoopen> brousch:  I found it at http://chext.net/ and it is free. Seems to be centered around texting so I don't think it's what I'm looking for/to do.
<brousch> hm
<rick_h_> greg-g: needs one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAcy7EVRpXc&feature=youtu.be
<rick_h_> from jrwren
<brousch> snap-l rick_h_: ptenhoopen is one of my West MI friends. He is lord and master of the WMLUG and he'll be my roomie at pyohio
<Wolfger> snap-l: well, you know, you did answer 3 days later.... that's an eternity in internet time. He was probably done with that problem by then.
<rick_h_> nice, howdy ptenhoopen
<ptenhoopen> rick_h_: Hi!
<Wolfger> Oh, NM. He's responded to everybody except you, today.
<Wolfger> in short.... you suck. :-D
<brousch> Pythonistas, what's a more elegant way of doing this? http://paste.mitechie.com/show/363/
<Wolfger> oh, my bad. He hasn't responded since the 7th. It's the first responder who's replying on his own post and somebody else's.
<Wolfger> brousch: case statements?
<Wolfger> 1, 2, and fall-through
<rick_h_> brousch: huh? why bother?
<rick_h_> what's this going to?
<rick_h_> a template file or something?
<brousch> yeah
<rick_h_> what's the template look like?
<rick_h_> you shuold just be sending the list to the template
<brousch> displays the image or nothing if it's none
<rick_h_> right, but why do you need the 3 diff grid vars?
<brousch> hm
<brousch> ah, so i would be sending a maximum of 3 images, and i can just loop through them in the template
<brousch> yeah, that's much better
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> maybe do some % magic if you want to adjust the cols based on the number of results
<rick_h_> but no need for the grid1..3
<rick_h_> Wolfger: no case statements in python
<Wolfger> what???
<Wolfger> :-p
<rick_h_> write a dispatch function/class or something better
<Wolfger> I'm also wondering what effect limit(3) had in that code if >=3 was still needed...
<rick_h_> not following
<rick_h_> the .limit adds a LIMIT 3 to the sql clause
<rick_h_> if you needed more you'd adjust your LIMIT in the sql statement
<greg-g> welcome to the channel, ptenhoopen
<ptenhoopen> greg-g:  Thanks
<Wolfger> Right, so in the grid_list = we have .limit(3)
<Wolfger> but in the if statement, we have >=3 instead of ==3
<Wolfger> and I don't get that
<rick_h_> ah
<Wolfger> limit of 3 would preclude ever being >3, yes?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> but mayube he likes seeing >=3 vs >2 == 2 < 2
<Wolfger> sure... just seemed like an oddity to me. Still fully functional
<rick_h_> right, I kind of like seeing the 1,2,3 though. Easy to read
<Wolfger> I would do ==1, ==2, ==3, and >3 for error trapping :-D
<rick_h_> and if you got back 0 rows :P
<Wolfger> if >3 "larger than expected array returned from query"
<Wolfger> yeah, that too
<brousch> that's much better, thanks. eliminated like 8 lines of code and half of my template
<rick_h_> brousch: cool, I like that answer then
<rick_h_> "don't rewrite it...get rid of it!" woo!
<brousch> yeah, i started with 1 image and expanded from there, and never went back to re-evaluate it
<brousch> that also makes it really easy to show the number of images you want instead of hard-coding 3
<brousch> BEAUTIFUL
<ptenhoopen> For those of you looking for open source personal finance software.  Look at the bottom of page 3.  http://www.datamation.com/open-source/63-open-source-replacements-for-popular-financial-software-1.html
<Wolfger> frakkin' Identica spammers
<Wolfger> don't they know Identica is dead? ;-)
<snap-l> har har
<Wolfger> I guess spammers using your service is a defacto certification of your viability
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6698554/simple-cgi-python-webserver-php-not-working
<snap-l> What is it with people trying to run PHP under Python? :)
<rick_h_> oh man, I'm going to cry
<snap-l> btw: If anyone wants an invite to Stack overflow Careers 2.0, I have some
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6692132/what-web-framework-to-choose/6692640#6692640
<rick_h_> get ready, making techie angry!!! lol
<brousch> snap-l: "some glue code"?
<brousch> very nice
<rick_h_> yea, I love that bit
<Milyardo> What's the point to a Python CGI that runs anything other than python to begin with?
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, pulling out the tact.
<rick_h_> my answer would have been "less php in my python please!"
<rick_h_> Milyardo: I'm guessing it was his idea of a *light* no install web server
<snap-l> rick_h_: ++
<snap-l> Like people wanting to run php in paste
<snap-l> r
<rick_h_> right, the same idea, but paster would be harder to get running
<rick_h_> since you've have to install it and figure out how to wsgi-ize your app for it
<snap-l> wsgi? ;)
<rick_h_> wspi
<rick_h_> my bad
<snap-l> @reboot paste server
<rick_h_> python -m SimpleHTTPServer
<rick_h_> "what! no php support in SimpleHTTPServer?! What kind of crappy package is that?!"
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6698546/phpbb3-adding-custom-profile-field
<snap-l> *sigh*
<rick_h_> downvoted
<brousch> a guy who came to a grpug meeting created this https://github.com/bendemott/pyhp
 * rick_h_ is afraid to click
<brousch> haven't seen him much lately
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, that's the sort of thing I was talking about
<brousch> i think he was using php as the templating language for a python app
<snap-l> brousch: probably gibbering in a corner for unleashing this upon humanity.
<Milyardo> People still use PhpBB? I thought that was vBulletien was the defecto php forum nowadays
<snap-l> Milyardo: Yeah, but vBulletin isn't free, iirc.
<snap-l> Milyardo: so PHPBB is the defacto way to get SPAM injected onto the internet.
<rick_h_> really? If you're using mako with the c extensions then guess what, php in it's own process isn't going to help you any, especially when you get to mako storing the compiled caches fo the templates
<rick_h_> and even if so, your template time is so little of your overall app execution time per request
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<snap-l> rick_h_: breathe
<snap-l> rick_h_: breathe
<snap-l> rick_h_: breathe
<rick_h_> maybe if you're facebook
<rick_h_> then those numbers matter, I've just not been that big
<snap-l> There might be some value for it
<snap-l> ie: gluing together some disparate codebases
<brousch> i think it's php devs trying to move to python but being frustrated that they can't just slap it all into their html
<snap-l> ho boy
<snap-l> I think I just heard an explosion south-west of me.
<snap-l> Yep, there goes rick_h_
<rick_h_> NW
<rick_h_> and I'm walking away for a bit, the more I read this readme the more annoyed I get
<snap-l> I thought you were in the office?
<rick_h_> yea, not for long :)
<rick_h_> but that's 14mi
<rick_h_> so that's still NW (in theory) of 11mi?
<snap-l> Yeah, it is
<rick_h_> http://www.google.com/maps?q=Morpace+Inc.,+31700+Middlebelt+Road,+Farmington+Hills,+MI+48334&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=61.19447,50.712891&z=16
<snap-l> if you use numbers and GPS and such
<rick_h_> oops, sorry for the url
<rick_h_> well I just used the nubmers of 14mi vs 11mi
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> Apparently my machine is now incapable of burning a DVD.
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: duh, you're using Linux.
<devinheitmueller> :-)
<snap-l> Not helping
<alpha-01> hello all
<alpha-01> met some of you yesterday.
<alpha-01> hopefully i can get a little more help...
<rick_h_> ruhroh
<alpha-01> installed 11.04 yesterday
<alpha-01> didn
<alpha-01> 'tdidn't get all the updates right then
<alpha-01> was able to connect to wifi, can't today
<alpha-01> hoping it is just an update i need
<alpha-01> can someone tell me how to run the updates?
<alpha-01> i did "sudo apt-get update"
<alpha-01> but i think there must be more to it than that...
<alpha-01> please help.
<rick_h_> yea, update just gets the list of updates
<rick_h_> to perform the upgrade you have to run
<rick_h_> sudo apt-get upgrade
<alpha-01> and that should fix everything?
<alpha-01> "should" being the operative word...
<Blazeix> it will upgrade your system, no promises on fixing everything :)
<Dekkard> wl
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-15
<Alpha-01> upgrade seems to have solved the problem. I am now able to connect to wifi.
<greg-g> awesome!
<Alpha-01> so how do i tweak the partitions? it keeps telling me how my hard drive is pretty much full.
<Alpha-01> but i have 4gb of space
<Alpha-01> and unless ubuntu 11.04 is bigger than i thought, that shouldn't be the case.
<greg-g> well, the full install uses about 2 gigs, iirc, so it might be warning you that you have less than 2 gigs left
<Alpha-01> it is telling me i have mb left, so i am guessing it might be 2 2gb or something like that.
<rick_h_> well snapl had that issue
<rick_h_> because by default it did 1gb of swap
<rick_h_> so you might be close to full
<Alpha-01> so if i have more updates will it know to store them elsewhere, or will it just stop updating?
<rick_h_> well honestly that setup isn't very sustainable
<Alpha-01> setup? sustainable?
<rick_h_> you'll have to catch snapl for advise
<rick_h_> but check out the report of df -h
<Alpha-01> i.e. netbook shouldn't run ubuntuu?
<rick_h_> and see how big the partitions are
<rick_h_> 4gb of disk a not a lot of space these days unfortunately
<rick_h_> I know snapl was always pressing against that
<Alpha-01> *ubuntu
<rick_h_> there are some large packages you can uninstall, there are some tricks you can try
<rick_h_> if you recall him last night talking about some of the other ubuntu family were much larger than he thought they'd be
<Alpha-01> well, i will keep that in mind. right now as long as i can get skype going this would be a major success.
<snap-l> evening, all
<snap-l> Sorry if I was a bit moody earlier. I'm not in my happy place.
<rick_h_> everything ok?
<jjesse> hope everything is fine
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm fine, just trying to figure out my place in the universe
<snap-l> That's all. ;)
<jjesse> hope you find it soon
<snap-l> Yeah, no worries
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> morning
<Wolfger> party
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> so far
<snap-l> btw: If you want to hear the results of what I was working on yesterday to make JoDee happy with being awakened to noise: http://openmetalcast.com/about/promote/
<brousch> i must've missed that conversation
<snap-l> And now JoDee waits for Comcast
<rick_h_> ruh roh, again?
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, first thing in the morning was me making that
<snap-l> rick_h_: re: Comcast? No, this is the first wait
<snap-l> We
<snap-l> we're making sure they don't try to install Comcast here.
<snap-l> billing address != shipping address. ;)
<snap-l> And this is the important payload. If dad-in-law doesn't get Comcast, there might be hell to pay
<snap-l> he was paying $$$ for satellite TV.
<rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6706161/datetime-in-defining-database-using-sqlalchemy/6706726#6706726 woo downvoting in the morning
<greg-g> snap-l: lol re: promo
<greg-g> snap-l: did you make the clanking noises yourself? or was that a sample?
<greg-g> oh, looks like sample
<rick_h_> snap-l: ah ok. I thought it was your place. Weren't you having comcast issues before and such?
<snap-l> greg-g: Tose we all promos.
<snap-l> Er, good morning
<snap-l> Those were all samples in the background
<snap-l> just a little tweaking here and there.
<snap-l> rick_h_: I have WOW. I always have issues with Comcast.
<snap-l> High prices, dick moves, etc.
<rick_h_> gotcha
<snap-l> But apparently it's the only option in this building outside of rabbit ears.
<snap-l> I have hypno-bunny outside my window
<greg-g> haha, "tose we all promos" is the QOTD
<greg-g> long article, but really interesting read about Stuxnet: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/07/how-digital-detectives-deciphered-stuxnet/all/1
<Wolfger> oh gods.... http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/93071/is-it-just-me-or-is-all-the-new-fancy-google-functionaility-annoying-everyone-els
<Wolfger> greg-g: fascinating. I'll have to give that a full read later.
<greg-g> Wolfger: yeah, and it might hit home for you, given your day job
<Wolfger> Yeah... Step 7 is right up my alley
<greg-g> I hadn't heard of it until that article
<greg-g> now I'm scared
<greg-g> :)
<Wolfger> Yeah, never heard of this at all. Switching to the 8-page view to break it into readable chunks
<snap-l> Thank you Wired, for breaking Instapaper.
<greg-g> heh
<snap-l> Seriously, Wired may have the best content in the world, but they're too busy having a fucking typography circle-jerk to let anyone read it.
<greg-g> hey! it is what gives their work such added value! (or something)
<greg-g> I was confused by all of the green arrows in that article, I was like, "where do I go next? do I really skip this paragraph? Why can't I just read the way I normally do?"
<jjesse> i really liked that article :)
<jjesse> the stuxnet one
<snap-l> Every time I think of Wired, I think of Van Burnham
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/Van-Burnham/e/B001IQXFC0
<snap-l> Back when I went to Classic Gaming Expo (2000), she was a guest speaker or something.
<snap-l> Or some show. Don't remember which, and doesn't matter
<snap-l> she entered the room with a fucking entourage
<snap-l> bunch of folks that looked like they'd rather be playing Shadowrun or Vampire
<greg-g> I think of Stephenson's article about undersea cables
<snap-l> All I could think of was "what a twat"
<snap-l> Ah, I remember, she was promoting her forthcoming book
<snap-l> which apparently launched in 2003.
<snap-l> Anywho, point being, Wired makes me stabby because they value presentation over content.
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/93082/what-do-you-think-are-the-best-ways-to-save-time-when-writing-code <- stabby
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/93082/what-do-you-think-are-the-best-ways-to-save-time-when-writing-code/93120#93120
<nullspace> snap-l: oh oh I'm going to sit here and hit refresh every 5 minutes on that page...
<nullspace> on second though I'll go back to writting java
<jrwren> java? rofl
<nullspace> shush MS fan boy
<snap-l> Hey, did you hear Microsoft is abandoning Windows?
<nullspace> I guess they just don't like natural light
<jrwren> why stabby?
<nullspace> MS research shows that more code is wrriten when a programmer's work environment is similar to a cave
<snap-l> jrwren: Those kinds of questions are like pre-optimization questions
<snap-l> ie: will my code compile faster if I use tabs instead of spaces.
<nullspace> gah
<jrwren> oh... i didn't read it that way at all.
<jrwren> "save time when writing code" to me sounds lke they want to be efficient.
<jrwren> I'd expect answers like "use Ruby instead of C"
<snap-l> Yes, on the durface
<snap-l> What the fuck, I can't type at all today.
<jrwren> are you a programmer?
<nullspace> at least that sentance came out right
<smoser> jcastro, have you seen http://pad.lv/811052 (unity 2 screens black window)
<jrwren> i'm just glad it was closed as not constructive
<snap-l> jrwren: I am a programmer. And open-ended questions like "how do I code faster" are not coding questions, they're procrastination
<jcastro> smoser: you've shown this to me before IRL
<jcastro> this happened to you at mug right?
<nullspace> snap-l: could have told them to type faster
<smoser> happens for me with 2 screens 100% of the time
<smoser> does it not happen for you ?
<jrwren> rofl. i disagree, but I think I see your POV
<jcastro> snap-l: programmer.se is where all the stupid questions people don't want on stackoverflow go
<jcastro> "how do I do agile?!?!?!"
<jrwren> i'll bet if a python n00b paired with rick_h_ and his vim setup for a couple days they would pick up TONS of things to "code faster"
<jcastro> smoser: jiggle either njpatel or DBO on #ayatana
<snap-l> jcastro: indeed
<jcastro> and see if they've seen it
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> or he could abandon you
<brousch> smoser: i have that exact same problem
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I'm being a little harsh, and there is always room for improvement, but this came across to me as navalgazing
<snap-l> jcastro: You're still going to hang out in here when you're off on your glorious beaches, right?
<snap-l> I need my direct line to Canonical in here. ;)
<smoser> brousch, hit "affects me" then.
<smoser> will you?
<brousch> i did
<jrwren> snap-l: honestly, I think he was indirectly spamming that link through yahoo through reddit to his site to drive traffic
<smoser> brousch, i'm guessing you're not running oneiric, right ?
<brousch> hm, but i'm on 11.04 and using real hardware
<snap-l> jrwren: It got closed anyway.
<smoser> i'm on real hardware also
<smoser> could you mention that you're seeing it with $(dpkg-query --show unity)
<brousch> np, let me know if you need anything else
<snap-l> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/749871/comments/16
<snap-l> jrwren: RT @AaronErickson: Showing C# 3 to people who have only known Java is like going back 200 years and showing people your iPad. (heh)
<jrwren> rick_h_: unsubbing from #TNT and keeping #BOL?  what does that mean?
<rick_h_> podcast stuff
<rick_h_> both do daily news
<rick_h_> dropped one and kept the other, now the one I kept is annoying as #@$#@
<nullspace> snap-l: eye rolling ensues
<jrwren> snap-l: its true though. C# is sooooo much more than "clone of java" like the haters suggest
<smoser> brousch, well, dbo responded, maybe this will get fixed.
<smoser> glad i finally decided to do something about it.
<nullspace> so if java sucks why is it on android and why is apache making awesome programs with it
<DBO> DBO is in here you know
<smoser> yeah, but i like talking behind his back
<smoser> oh, shoot, he heard me
<brousch> smoser: You are abetter bugman than I
<smoser> well, i was in a bug submitting mood after i upgraded, rebooted, and couldn't log in at all
<smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/809890
<brousch> I have a couple of other problems I should report
<brousch> sleep doesn't work, sometimes i can't get out of a screensaver
<nullspace> smoser: just don't use unity, it's that simple
<jrwren> did I say java sucks?  no. I just said C# is better :)
<snap-l> rick_h_: I've come to the conclusion that I can't stand Sara Lane or Molly Wood
<snap-l> Though Molly Wood is infinitely more tolerable than Sara Lane.
<nullspace> causes my machien to freeze becasue my gpu and unity hate each other
<snap-l> ie: if she's a guest on a show, she's fine
<snap-l> when she's hosting, I want to stop listening.
<nullspace> snap-l: what show is this?
<snap-l> Buzz out Loud?
<nullspace> don't think I can listen to that anyway
<smoser> snap-l is *really* trying to avoid work
<smoser> not only *watching* cnet garbage, but talking about his favorite hosts
<snap-l> smoser: hardly
<snap-l> This is a long-held believ.
<snap-l> belief, even
<jrwren> why even bother listening to that stuff?  its for techie grandpas
 * snap-l gets ready to kneecap jrwren with his cane.
<snap-l> I don't listen to either regularly, mind you.
 * smoser snickers, thinking of snap-l saying "Get off my lawn, or I'll throw my Zune at you. ROTTEN KIDS!"
<snap-l> smoser: Diamond Rio, good sir
<snap-l> Never bought a Zune
<nullspace> snap-l: do you even have a lawn?
<smoser> granpda's don't buy diamond rios
<snap-l> nullspace: Yes, and I have your lawn to do donuts on
<nullspace> snap-l: my front lawn is in fact that big
<jrwren> i get my tech news from...   ??? :)
<snap-l> Actually, i should correct that. I have this area in front of my house here grass proceeds to work through "the circle of life"
<nullspace> it's called the carbon cycle
<nullspace> I was part of the carbon cycle before it was cool
<snap-l> I'm so cool, I leave carbon crop circles.
<nullspace> who is going to make it to maker faire this year?
<nullspace> I sould say Detroit Maker Faire
<brousch> quit having it the same weekend as pyohio :P
<nullspace> who wants to go to ohio anyway
<nullspace> deleware at least has an ocean, ohio has, well drive thru liqour stores
<brousch> ohio has pythons!
<nullspace> mofo snakes in a mofo convention
<rick_h_> boom
<krondor> nullspace:  I can't they did it same weekend as last year, and just like last year I have the same meeting to attend :|
<gamerchick02> yo dawg,i heard you like python so i put some pythons in your python... well, maybe not.
<brousch> ouch
<krondor> Tulalip has got to be worst codename for a project I've heard
<gamerchick02> tulalip?
<gamerchick02> wha?
<rick_h_> krondor: I'm glad I'm not the only one
<rick_h_> and usually MS does a bit better with those codenames
<rick_h_> usually the codenames should be the product names
<krondor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_codenames
<snap-l> For those of us who aren't paying attention, what is Tulalip?
<brousch> MS codename for their social network that had a nip slip last night
<Wolfger> jrwren: technically you did not say that Java sucks (though you should have), nor did you say C# is better. You simply said C# was more...  (more suckage?)
<jrwren> if suckage is complex, then yes. C# is more complex.
<jrwren> if suckage is powerful, then yes, C# is more powerful
<snap-l> brousch: You're kidding me
<snap-l> Apparently Microsoft is just going throw their dick into any hole and hope someone does something with it, aren't they?
<snap-l> (apologies, that reference was a little vile)
<snap-l> - D&D 1st Ed Monster Manual (Limit 3)   	135 Points
<snap-l> http://gobretail.com/gobcurrentrewards.php
<snap-l> Sorry, but I find that funny
<snap-l> I think that means that they only have three available for rewards, but still...
<rick_h_> https://code.google.com/p/support/issues/detail?id=2454#c43
<rick_h_> interesting
<rick_h_> because they have: http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/CodeReviews
<brousch> snap-l: nice OMC intro
<brousch> and of course i get 1/2 way through the first song before somone needs their hand held
<Wolfger> how romantic.... ;-)
<snap-l> brousch: Heh
<snap-l> the music, it's scary. ;)
<snap-l> brousch: Thanks, though. Glad you enjoyed it. :)
<brousch> i could barely tell it was you
<snap-l> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6698554/simple-cgi-python-webserver-php-not-working <- Update from Yesterday.
<brousch> so it's solved? i can run my php in python now?
<nullspace> gah, I know Joy division really beok new ground but the lead singer just sounds like he is no even trying
<nullspace> instead I'll just listen to the smiths
 * rick_h_ smacks forehead
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ty, made my afternoon: https://twitter.com/#!/wafuqua/status/91949206234861568
<rick_h_> I can completely see myself in this situtation
<rick_h_> situation that is
<Blazeix> haha, yeah, it was amazing
<rick_h_> "render damn you!!!!"
<rick_h_> "I am, I am..."
<Blazeix> we tried zooming out 6 or 7 times, but you need to zoom out ~25 times
<rick_h_> I was chasing an html thing like that where the labels weren't showing on some JS generated images
<rick_h_> just happened the default text was white on a white background
<nullspace> rick_h_: walked away yesterday and never noticed if you replied to the $.proxy comment
<nullspace> keeping context is good
<rick_h_> $.proxy?
<nullspace> http://api.jquery.com/jQuery.proxy/
<rick_h_> ok, what's the deal?
<nullspace> keeps your objects in context
<nullspace> I guess I'm just finding it really useful
<rick_h_> right, sorry feel like I missed this discussion
<nullspace> actually we are having it right now
<rick_h_> ah, I've not had to use it really.
<rick_h_> I tend to try to use events, callbacks, and pass what I need
<rick_h_> I guess I'd do something more like using the extra params in an event trigger instead
<rick_h_> and try to encapsulate that
<nullspace> I do to but sometimes this is just easier
<rick_h_> cool
<nullspace> I made a jQuery pun
<nullspace> err an object oriented pun
<snap-l> Jeez, sf.net is hiring like mad
<snap-l> Unfortunately I can't get to their site. ;)
<snap-l> I have had more people follow me on Google Plus that I don't know than on Twitter. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-16
<snap-l> howdy
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> woowoo
<Dr_Cli> Warren, checking in!
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Time to go and get my hair cut
<snap-l> (finally)
<rick_h_> ugh, sucky morning
<snap-l> HOw's the afternoon?
<rick_h_> snap-l: meh
<greg-g> ok, which smart phone does everyone recommend? :)
<ebarch> greg-g: android I hope?
<ebarch> and in that case...it all depends on the carrier you're going to go with
<greg-g> ebarch: i'm a free agent
<greg-g> and yeah, droid
<ebarch> what are you looking for in terms of data transfer? the only unlimited carriers right now are sprint and tmobile...unless you go prepaid w/ virgin mobile or boost
<greg-g> good to know
<greg-g> I want data transfer, as much as I can get :) I'll be commuting via a train every day (in SF) so I want some internet time there
<greg-g> in general, do you have a favorite/think it is the best android phone out right now?
<greg-g> ebarch: thanks for your info though, you've been helpful already!
<ebarch> greg-g: no prob! if you want cheap, virgin mobile is $25/mo for unlimited data, text + 300 mins but their coverage isn't amazing
<ebarch> i know boost is around $50/mo for unlimited
<ebarch> galaxy s ii is the best if you can get your hands on it
<ebarch> i'd highly suggest getting something without a locked bootloader or something easy to root if you're interested in really customizing it and loading up a different ROM
<ebarch> HTC is pretty good for that
<ebarch> motorola has been notoriously bad
 * greg-g nods
<ebarch> for verizon, the thunderbolt is pretty solid in addition to the incredible 2
 * greg-g is taking notes
<ebarch> on att, the infuse 4g and inspire 4g are pretty solid
<ebarch> sprint would probably be evo 3d, evo shift, or the nexus 4g
<greg-g> cool
<ebarch> not sure about tmobile... i know virgin mobile is getting the motorola triumph which is supposed to be good
<ebarch> thankfully android has really come down in price and pretty much all of the phones you can get right now will run plenty fast
<greg-g> yeah, awesome
<greg-g> now I guess it is time to price out some actual plans in SF
<ebarch> i've still got my year old evo 4g and it runs just as fast as most phones today...i loaded it up with cyanogenmod to get rid of the HTC crap
<greg-g> right right
<ebarch> heh, yeah...the carrier will be the main deciding factor
<greg-g> thanks man!
<ebarch> no prob...give me a shout if you have any other questions
<greg-g> will do!
<greg-g> you are now my go-to person, just fyi ;)
<ebarch> haha, cool with me...just message me if i don't respond in the chat
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-17
<snap-l> Evening
<widox> hey-o
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> greg-g: honestly, I'd wait until you got out there and checked coverage for where you're going to be
<rick_h_> most do a 20-30 day trial where you can use a phone and return for only the service used
<rick_h_> that way you can use it on the train, make sure it works, etc
<widox> greg-g: seems like AT&T is a bad choice since everyone has an iPhone and the network is congested
<widox> just a thought
<rick_h_> yea, network out there won't match what you see out here
<rick_h_> things get very regional
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, but I was also thinking that having the phone would be nice on the road trip out there
<rick_h_> yea, just warning is all
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> definitely
<rick_h_> getting stuck 2yrs with something that fails to work well fail
<rick_h_> at least ping the people you know the that area
<greg-g> totally
<rick_h_> tmo might be good, cheaper, but only want that if the coverage is there
<rick_h_> sprint the same, but smaller networks, etc
<rick_h_> so safer are the big two
<rick_h_> also heads up that rumor is new google nexus phone in the fall
<rick_h_> with the new version of android OS
<widox> anyone using chrome have broken developer tools? its just a white box for me :( rick_h_ ?
<rick_h_> no, I've had that in the past, but not recently
<rick_h_> is it a large page?
<rick_h_> and have you tried restarting all of chrome
<widox> seems to be any page
<widox> yea, restarted
<widox> and updated
<widox> no joy
<greg-g> won't the current version of the nexus be able to run the next verison of android, especially if I run my own mod?
<rick_h_> hmm, nope, not seen that one
<rick_h_> greg-g: right
<rick_h_> the nexus S and the S 4g are on tmo/sprint
<greg-g> ok, then oh well, there is always something better coming out :)
<rick_h_> yea, just a heads up as I don't mind new stuff, but the current nexus have a few drawbacks
<greg-g> oh?
<rick_h_> yea, some battery issues and a few bugs
<rick_h_> http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/28/samsung-galaxy-s-ii-review/
<rick_h_> is related, but upcoming with much better reviews. Supposedly in US end of july
<rick_h_> that's not a google phone though so updates are up to samsung/etc
<rick_h_> but should be the best android phone when it hits
<greg-g> awesome, thanks!
<greg-g> got a tough choice ahead of me
<greg-g> alright, sleep time now!
<rick_h_> yea, just a bad time, with fall/school/holidays it's release season
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> Getting ready to go do the grocery dance.
<brousch> snap-l: way too late for that. after 10 on sundays is when all the churches let out and mob meijers
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> what the ... from a family member's FB post:
<brousch> Norton Safe Web scanned my News FeedI don't need to worry about unsafe links - Norton Safe Web automatically keeps my wall safe!
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> God, that's like saying "I have a burgler alarm, so I can go to Downtown Detroit at night with $20 hanging out of my pocket."
<rick_h_> huh?
<rick_h_> oh, nvm, putting it together
<snap-l> Appaently we are trending towards to hippiedom
<snap-l> We got Disc Golf frisbees
<brousch> those are fun
<brousch> until you get way better than your wife and she quits in frustration
<snap-l> Heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-09
<rick_h_> hah http://www.flyingrhinocc.com/cycling-news/2012/7/8/chevy-commercial-filmed-at-waterford-hills.html
<derekv> do as I say, not as I do... don't try to do 20 burpies with no warmup after drinking like three glasses of water
<greg-g> burpies?
<snap-l> Phew. Sent off the Squeezebox article
<rick_h_> woot
<snap-l> Hopefully they'll like it.
<snap-l> (and hopefully it'll pass editing muster, and not make some editor out there explode)
<snap-l> It's hard to do layout in plain text
<snap-l> ie: I sent a bunch of hi-res images along with the article
<greg-g> snap-l: who's it for?
<greg-g> I guess I should take photos of both hotels I'm at in DC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Rouge
<greg-g> erm, wrong channel
<snap-l> greg-g: Linux Journal
<snap-l> greg-g: Those statues in the Wikipedia article are creeeeepy
<derekv> burpies to crossfiters, aka downups and a million other names to anyone who did highschool sports, and pretty much unknown to everyone else.
<derekv> burpees I guess
<snap-l> I have NFC what you're talaking about.
<snap-l> (I was in band)
<derekv> me too
<derekv> ive only known about them for a couple years
<derekv> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MGljX4bbps
<derekv> I may have overdone it tho
<derekv> so is ruby bullshit or is it just bullshit on freebsd
<jrwren> derekv: rofl.
<jrwren> 20 burbies after 3 glasses of water is NUTS.
<derekv> it was sloshing around
<derekv> =p
<jrwren> i'll bet.
<jrwren> did you puke?
<derekv> nah
<jrwren> try 5 glasses next time, see what happens.
<derekv> 3 pitchers of beer
<derekv> das boot das burpees
<derekv> http://beersandburpees.wordpress.com/ lol
<derekv> jrwren: well anyways its not like I planed it out.
<derekv> i'd still like to use octopress due to the fact I think it comes styled out of the box and its ready to go for github pages, also looks like it has more users, but blogofiles worked faster ...
<derekv> still can't get ruby 1.9 to work correctly
<derekv> all of the static html generating "blog aware" frameworks seem to work with a very similar pattern ... but not identical
<derekv> ah nice finally got it rolling
<derekv> they see me rolling, they t-t-trolling,
<jrwren> tryin' ot catch you coding dirty.
<snap-l> http://www.earache.com/free/
<snap-l> http://askearache.blogspot.com/2012/05/shocking-rise-of-digital-music-database.html
<snap-l> Extremely interesting take on Digital Music business
<derekv> http://derekv.github.com/ lame
<derekv> oh well
<derekv> i'm not really groking octopress
<Blazeix> derekv: your resource paths have an extra 'derekv' in them
<Blazeix> should be "http://derekv.github.com/javascripts/ender.js" for example
<derekv> Blazeix: yea I think I set it up wrong
<Blazeix> not "http://derekv.github.com/derekv/javascripts/ender.js
<Blazeix> "
<derekv> that makes sense...
<derekv> there we go
<derekv> I know what happened.
<derekv> All I really want, is a repo with markup pages, then something seperate that throws style on them and gives you a "blog" view showing the most recent posts
<derekv> Oh, you should always waste time when you don't have any. Time is not the boss of you. Rule 408.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<rick_h_> anyone catch the name of the truck than ran over me?
<snap-l> Yeah, it was called Vacation Rental
<snap-l> "Relaxin' your ass ince 1969"
<rick_h_> ugh
<snap-l> I'm happy that my article is done, though
<snap-l> and bonus: I don't have to ship back the review unit. :)
<rick_h_> ooooh
<rick_h_> of the touch?
<snap-l> Yep
<rick_h_> niiiiice
<snap-l> Yeah, no complaints there. :)
<shakes808> Morning
<brousch> Hello everybody!
<shakes808> Everyone enjoying the cool down?
<shakes808> brousch: You are from the GR area right? How has it been over there?
<brousch> It was nice yesterday
<brousch> Some of us got a little cold at the beach
<shakes808> lol I hear it. I was out at a beach and did some Kayaking. It was nice, but cool at times.
<rick_h_> shush!
<rick_h_> until it's < 80 it's still too hot, but thank goodness we're < 90
<shakes808> HA HA
<shakes808> I like it in the high 70s - to mid 80s. Breaking 90+ is just too hot.
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/xOEFl
<brousch> The cold was from the wind churning up cold water from the depths
<brousch> rick_h_: That makes my head hurt
<rick_h_> brousch: how so?
<rick_h_> nice cassandra plug in there
<brousch> The lengths they go to for scale and reliability are beyond my ken
<brousch> I shouldn't say that. They are beyond my knowledge and my current desire to learn
 * snap-l is listening to Miles Davis' Tutu.
 * shakes808 likes what snap-l is listening too.
<shakes808> Listening to my Frank Sinatra station on Pandora. It is just that kind of day it would seem ;)
<snap-l> Yeah, but later it's Pantera covers. :)
<shakes808> :D Nice.
<shakes808> Can't believe that it has been 8 years since he was killed. It doesn't even seem that long.
<shakes808> What a trajedy
<snap-l> Yeah, definitely one of metal's worst moments
<snap-l> one crazy fan ruins it for everyone else.
<shakes808> and weren't they talking about getting together for one more album or reunion tour
<shakes808> I almost had tickets to the show up here and was invited to the OH show but had to work and couldn't get it off.
<snap-l> I don't think it would have happened.
<shakes808> Why not? Grudges to deep with Phil?
<snap-l> I've read interviews with Phil. Maybe it would have worked it at some point
<snap-l> but frankly it seems highly unlikely.
<shakes808> gotcha
<snap-l> Then again, I never thought Black Sabbath would get back together with Ozzy (and kick out Geezer Butler) so I know nothing.
<shakes808> HA HA
<snap-l> Not Geezer, sorry
<shakes808> come on metalcast, aren't you supposed to have the insight on all things metal? ;) lol
<snap-l> Bill Ward.
<snap-l> I spend my time not giving a crap about Ozzy. ;)
<shakes808> ha ha
<shakes808> too main stream for you?
<jrwren> but Black Sabbath is good.
<jrwren> at least the 1969 album is :p
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Black_Sabbath_band_members
<snap-l> shakes808: I find Sharon Osborne both a help and a hinderance for Ozzy.
<snap-l> Any time the Ozzy camp does something bitchy, I imagine her behind it.
<shakes808> snap-l: why is that?
<snap-l> see: Iron Maiden on Ozzfest
<snap-l> That said, Ozzy wouldn't be here if it weren't for her.
<shakes808> didn't she help him get clean and stay clean?
<jrwren> what do you all use for backups?
<jrwren> anyone just using tar?
<snap-l> jrwren: No, because Tar is bad for big backups
<snap-l> shakes808: Yes
<snap-l> jrwren: I use rdiff-backup
<jrwren> tar is bad why? because you have to seek teh whole file?
<jrwren> rdiff backup to what? usb disk and then take the usb disk offsite?
<snap-l> because if you compress it, you have a bad file
<shakes808> jrwren: because it is thick and sticky. It helped to kill the dinosaurs ;) lol
<snap-l> I rdiff-backup to a 2TB drive on my desk
<snap-l> I don't have offsite backup
<jrwren> what do you mean if you compress it you have a bad file
<snap-l> try this:
<snap-l> tar czvf filename.tar.gz something
<snap-l> then bring out a hex editor and change one byte
<snap-l> your file is screwed.
<jrwren> hrm, ok, that is true.
<snap-l> uncompressed tar is a little more forgiving, but you'll lose the corrupted file
<jrwren> i could use a checksumming tool to suppliement. usenet style. par2 my tar.gz and be happy
<jrwren> that is true of your rsync target too though.
<snap-l> You could use something like rar
<jrwren> if a file is corrupt, a file is corrupt
<snap-l> jrwren: Right, but that's what multi-level backups are for
<jrwren> right.
<jrwren> that is what I'm doing with tar.
<snap-l> at some point the pristine file should be there.
<jrwren> tar -g
<jrwren> and --level=1 and 2
<snap-l> jrwren: It's your data. Frankly I wouldn't use tar for backups
<snap-l> It's pretty dumb
<jrwren> ok
<brousch> jrwren: I just copy to USB
<snap-l> and brousch also doesn't like data. ;)
<brousch> Rotate 14 drives for offsite, gives me 2 weeks backups
<derekv> soundcloud didn't work out.
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, just using rsync for backups here
<rick_h_> rsync, dropbox, and git repos
<jrwren> one of the reasons i want it in a single file is it is easier to encrypt and easier to upload to s3 or whereever
<rick_h_> well and web services. All my pics on picasa now and all my music up to google music now
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I've thoguht about it, but the cpu/memory overhead of creating a single tar ugh
<brousch> jrwren: Home or work?
<rick_h_> and then restoring so many unchanged bits on s3 double ugh
<snap-l> Does S3 handle encrypted FS?
<jrwren> cpu memory overhead for a tar is trivial, for compressing it is painful. dedicate a cPU to it ;)
<rick_h_> sorry, two thoughts there...storing so many unchanged bits ugh, storing ugh
<jrwren> home.
<brousch> Ah, OK, that is different
<rick_h_> restoring damn I can't type today
<brousch> I just use Crashplan, but that requires evil
<jrwren> what do you mean restoring unchanged bits on s3?
<jrwren> i'd use incrementals of course.
<rick_h_> if you re-tar your /home to s3 you'll have a daily file of 400mb, 401mb, etc
<rick_h_> well, good luck to you :) but no...not using tar for backups
<snap-l> That's where the levels would come i
<snap-l> in
<snap-l> but I have NFC how tar stores those, or how it might overlay those changes.
<rick_h_> the more complicated the backup gets, the more likely it won't work, you don't keep up with it, or it costs too much.
<jrwren> what do you mean 4001, 4001 ?
<snap-l> truth
<rick_h_> jrwren: just meant that simplest means no incremental
<jrwren> oh no, i use -g and --level
<rick_h_> but if you'll incremental it up so that you're not storing a 400mb file each day then cool I guess
<snap-l> note the "i guess"
<jrwren> the level 1 and level 2 is in its own file, its not an append or overlay
<snap-l> That's code for "I think you're crazy"
<jrwren> so you have backup0.tar, backup1.tar
<jrwren> its why i'm asking.
<jrwren> another reason i like it is that it is easy to use xz compression. i got my system down from 9GB to 1.7GB, which saves $$$
<rick_h_> for me, I just have my large files (pita to backup) in cloud services, my important stuff (code) in git, and the rest I rsync to the NAS and if it goes away...that sucks
<snap-l> If you're going to compress, I'd recommend using bzip2
<snap-l> gzip has no error-correction
<snap-l> bzip2 does
<snap-l> Not fool-proof, but you won't be stuck with a fully corrupted file
<snap-l> just use rar and usenet and be done with it. ;)
<snap-l> "No honey, this usenet subscription is REALLY important. It's my backup plan. alt.binaries.backup"
<brousch> jrwren: Is there something wrong with Time Machine?
<snap-l> brousch: Other than being fully Apple, um, yes.
 * rick_h_ runs away from the troll bait
<brousch> What? He uses apple, it comes with Time Machine for backups
<jrwren> snap-l: i'm using xz. bzip2 is sooo 15 yrs ago :)
<brousch> I've used it in the past, it seems reasonable
<jrwren> brousch: my work mac has an at work time machine to external drive. I'm looking at options for backing up my home server
<jrwren> huge thanks to snap-l for pointing out the lack of integrity. I think I can run parchive on the tar and store those with the backups.
<brousch> Ah, home server
<derekv> I need to work on simplicity .
<greg-g> g'morn
<rick_h_> derekv: ++
<rick_h_> I was just having a discussion around simplicity with a co-worker
<snap-l> jrwren: np, I'be been bit by that in the past.
<derekv> Simplicity is my goal but I can overengineer in attempt to achive it.
<derekv> Many programmers don't engineer at all it feels like... and thats really painful.
<derekv> So I engineer somewhat from the beginning, but then as my understanding increases it sometimes turns out I didn't need to.
<derekv> Then the coders who think that everything should be in the view controller see my code and don't like it.
<derekv> so it comes down to. like, OK while I didn't need to do what I did in retrospect, but its better to have some architecture then a big mess
<derekv> But ideally, there's some right amount of architecture/engineering that makes for simplicity, not adding complexity to the app beyond what tis nessisiary for readability, testability and correctness
<jrwren> simplicity is difficult
<derekv> simple != easy
<derekv> when I engineer well, making changes to the program is like butter.
<snap-l> yeah and knowing when you've churned enough to make butter is awesome
<derekv> but yea not everything I plan out ends up making things easier... and while its not really making it harder, its more for the next guy to get his head around
<snap-l> CODE AS IF THE NEXT GUY TO MAINTAIN YOUR CODE IS A HOMICIDAL MANIAC WHO KNOWS WHERE YOU LIVE.
<snap-l> http://www.sundoginteractive.com/sunblog/posts/code-as-if-the-next-guy-to-maintain-your-code-is-a-homicidal-maniac-who-kno/
<derekv> thats the goal... I'm talking about getting it right
<derekv> I'm trying to figure out if it'd be a big mistake to error more on the underengineered side
<derekv> If I'm even able to do that.
<derekv> I have FUD
<rick_h_> derekv: so step 1: deal with the issue at hand.
<rick_h_> if they're putting crap into their view controller ask them to test it
<rick_h_> and let's see how long before it's refactored out of the view controller into it's own lib/model/etc :P
<rick_h_> if they still don't get it, they don't understand code/testability and it's time to find their replacement :)
<derekv> i'm in a sprint planning ... should I let "implement using code coverage tool" drop off the sprint without brining it up again?
<derekv> i sortof conceeded that, now I'm thinking its a bad idea
<snap-l> Need more data
<rick_h_> bah, code coverage is easy to add and just having information doesn't change anything
<rick_h_> so why not add it in? what's the argument against?
<derekv> dunno, scrum guy wanted to drop it out of the sprint
<snap-l> Does he / she know what code coverage gets you?
<derekv> I don't think so.
<derekv> actually the problem is larger I think... bbiab
<snap-l> Might be a convo to have
<derekv> you know... there's sortof a simplicicty issue with defining stories and subtasks
<snap-l> Sounds like you're in a project management hell
<snap-l> Those meetings are always fun. "What are the subtasks? OK, step one: I arrive at work and sit in my chair"
<snap-l> "TOo granular"
<snap-l> "OK, I sit at my desk,a nd code falls out"
<snap-l> "Too broad"
<snap-l> "Minute 1: I pray for death"
<snap-l> "Minute 2: I pray for death"
<snap-l> "Minute 3: I pray for death"
<jrwren> they are painful, but in a healthy dev org they are very valueable
<snap-l> Minute 4: I scratch my self.
<snap-l> "Minute 5: I pray for death"
<snap-l> jrwren: Those moments are few and far between
<rick_h_> yea, user stories, or personas are helpful
<rick_h_> really aid in the framing of the discussion when debating features/tasks
<snap-l> rick_h_: Usually the user story we got on a project was "I'm way too busy for these meetings"
<snap-l> and then they bitched when they didn't get what they wanted.
<rick_h_> hah
<snap-l> only a few of them really did get the purpose of the meetings.
<snap-l> unfortuately they still didn't get what they wanted.
<snap-l> but that was a function of the process.
<rick_h_> someone help me, I'm going to try to package up JS into a python egg...
<snap-l> Is that legal?
<rick_h_> I'm not sure...
<jrwren> which js?
<jrwren> oh, your client js. sure, that is fine.
<rick_h_> no, YUI library
<rick_h_> into a python package so I can pull it down via python dep tools
<rick_h_> :/
<rick_h_> O..M..G http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/9965/why-is-there-still-case-sensitivity-in-some-programming-languages
<snap-l> because we're not programming on fucking 3270s any more?
<snap-l> or Atari 400s
<rick_h_> case in-sensitivity is something that I can never ever get behind
<snap-l> I can get behind it. With a baseball bat and bad intentions.
<snap-l> Seriously, I wonder if people think before they post.
<snap-l> Also, Gama Bomb has a free album on earache's website
<snap-l> I am enjoying thoroughly.
<jrwren> its not that bad.
<jrwren> its barely noticable.
<snap-l> http://earache.com/free/
<jrwren> if you are actually using the sensitivity you are probably doing it wrong.
<jrwren> naming 2 funcitons idostuff() and IDoStuff() is bad, mmmkay.
<snap-l> jrwren: I have some COBOL that has your name on it.
<jrwren> hahaha.
 * devinheitmueller just spent the last five minutes looking up the entomology of the word "camel case"...
<rick_h_> find anything interesting?
<_stink_> findMyProposalToUseItInAllTypedCommunications?
<devinheitmueller> It's because the notion of uppercase characters mixed in with lowercase resembles humps on a camel.
<devinheitmueller> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_case#History_of_the_name_.22camel_case.22
<snap-l> camelCaseIsForPeopleWithNoImagination
<snap-l> What is it? itsAVariableThatIsEssentiallyAGodDamnSentence
<_stink_> thinkOfAllTheBytesYouAreSaving.
<rick_h_> that's what the build step is for
<snap-l> Oh, that's another  fun one
<rick_h_> jsmin **/*.js :P
<snap-l> "Should I use tabs to speed up comilation instead of spaces?"
<rick_h_> lol
<_stink_> hahah
<_stink_> i love it.
<snap-l> Should I pogo-stick with a shotgun?
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: during compilation, the cost of figuring out how much to indent due to the tab outweighs just using spaces.
<snap-l> If it keeps your ass off the keyboard, please do
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: I know. It's the circle-jerk of productivity wasting known as programmers.se.com
<devinheitmueller> For some reason my coworkers frown on my using the term "circle jerk" to describe certain things.
<rick_h_> that's never stopped snap-l before
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_: it doesn't really stop me either.  They just frown when I do it.
<devinheitmueller> I have a "Corporate DNA" ethics directive that says to use "straight talk"
<devinheitmueller> I'm actually not kidding.  It's frightening.
<rick_h_> well, in today's environment I think it's considered rude to exclude certain groups of people that might find an activity more challenging :P
<snap-l> straight talk? That is straight talk, yo
<snap-l> rick_h_: You do not want to know why that statement is wrong. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: nope...I do not
<snap-l> In [1]: 776 * .10
<snap-l> I <3 floating point conversion.
<rick_h_> https://github.com/blog/1187-github-android-app-released
<rick_h_> jrwren: so not sure if they'll fix it upstream: https://github.com/facebook/tornado/issues/559#issuecomment-6797492
<rick_h_> jrwren: but I'm getting convinced to port this app over from tornado and will keep this bug in mind during porting/rewriting
<rick_h_> does the CSS fail to load for anyone else here? https://juju.ubuntu.com
<rick_h_> as in it looks fugly and broken?
<brousch> Yes
<rick_h_> ok thanks for the sanity check
<brousch> And "This page has insecure content"
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> snap-l: I downloaded those free Earache albums too
<brousch> snap-l: Morbid Angel was on Earache, so I have a softspot for them
<snap-l> brousch: Let me know how the other two are
<snap-l> I only downloaded gama bomb
<jrwren> rick_h_: yes, no css here
<brousch> Interesting https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/598228-4-fine-linux-arm-distros-
<brousch> rick_h_: What good is a github app that doesn't let you clone/pull?
<Scott_firebeta> anyone know if Dell has released their Ubuntu ultrabook yet?  www.dell.com/ubuntu just lists a crap laptop
<brousch> Scott_firebeta: I posted a link where you could sign up for their beta last week
<nullspace> just get a thinkpad
<jrwren> i'd like to try a samsung series 9 with ubuntu.
<nullspace> jrwren: I thought you had gone to the apple side?
<jrwren> i have, but that doesn't mean that I'd switch if there were something better.
<brousch> Apple has pattented better. No one else can make something better without getting sued.
<Scott_firebeta> I'm trying to decide between an asus zenbook and a macbook air, and airplay might be the deciding feature
<jrwren> macbook air is excellent.
<Scott_firebeta> if I don't like OS X I can always install a linux distro (prices are similar)
<jrwren> i have loved both of my macbook air
<jrwren> i thought linux does not run well on a macbook air
<Scott_firebeta> only feature that I can find on the zenbook that the macbook air doesn't have is a 1080p screen
<jrwren> you know Lion doesn't have any airplay features, you have to wait for mountain lion, right.
<jrwren> zenbook has a 1080p display? that is excellent.
<Scott_firebeta> free upgrade to mountain lion if you by a macbook air now
<jrwren> i highly recommend the macbook air :)
<jrwren> wow, $1099 for 1080p 13" zenbook... I'd definitely like to try ubuntu on that as my primary for a while
<Scott_firebeta> macbook air (mid 2011) is pretty compatible with 12.04:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookAir4-2 , no article on the mid 2012 model yet
<brousch> Scott_firebeta: I have not been able to get Linux working 100% on Apple (MBP). In particular I have trouble with external monitors, and the touchpad doesn't work as well
<brousch> Doesn't work as well as in OSX, I should clarify
<jrwren> mid2012 model is pretty much the same as 2011, just ivybridge instead of sandy
<snap-l> I <3 this album: http://www.last.fm/music/Suicidal+Tendencies/The+Art+Of+Rebellion
<snap-l> (yes, I know, it's a day ending in Y)
<brousch> Hm https://sites.google.com/site/thisisrebelcountry/chapter-2-the-gub/the-interurban-era
<gamerchick02> brousch, that looks interesting.
<brousch> bah, that's not what i meant to post
<brousch> http://it.slashdot.org/story/12/07/09/212217/general-motors-to-slash-outsourcing-in-it-overhaul?utm_source=feedburnerGoogle+Reader&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
<gamerchick02> well, it was a happy mistake because it looks interesting.
<gamerchick02> wow. that's great news
<gamerchick02> i wish Chrysler would do the same.
<brousch> Heh, I forgot which company you geekers work for
<gamerchick02> Chrysler here. well, RGBSI, but i'm AT Chrysler.
<jrwren> wow, that is risky and excellent by GM.
<jrwren> it could be really great for them, it could be a disaster
<gamerchick02> i hope it's really great for them and improves their IT support.
<gamerchick02> maybe the other major automakers will follow by example
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ did you have any progress on that ivy bridge freeze bug?
<gamerchick02> my computer is running smooth as butter today
<rick_h_> awesome http://theoatmeal.com/blog/charity_money
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: no, I was away all weekend away from the interwebs and catching up still
<gamerchick02> rick_h_, i saw the oatmeal thing; that's so awesome
<gamerchick02> and thanks for replying.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-10
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: hmmm, so might have just enabled/helped some sort of game/spammy app. Doh
<rick_h_> sorry, gamerchick02 wasn't meant for you personally
<gamerchick02> heh. that'sok
<gamerchick02> spammy app?
<gamerchick02> android? iOS?
<rick_h_> http://dealini.ch/
<rick_h_> saw a post on hackernews, tracked me to my blog, watched my talk linked there, and then left me a comment on the blog to try to contact me http://paste.mitechie.com/show/e3vK9zYXcZ6F9QGzSas8/
<rick_h_> I've been hunted down from hackernews to my email box
<gamerchick02> wow
<gamerchick02> you're famous!
<rick_h_> no, just made a comment on a hackernews post lol
<gamerchick02> ah
<Blazeix> you can tell him, "sorry, i've seen the light and use php now!"
<gamerchick02> i'm off! and tired. i'll see everyone tomorrow after work and maybe i can try to figure out this kernel bug. hasn't happened today. strange
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/raw/5a6Yic7VK4vHrg4QhH52/
<snap-l> I swear, those videos have been weirdness magnets.
<brousch> I don't see the weirdness.
<brousch> Just people that want more info
<snap-l> I found it weird
<snap-l> I answered the guy, because it was a valid question
<snap-l> but I still found it weird. ;)
<snap-l> Also, I just love it when people put up samples of their work on Bandcamp
<snap-l> Quickest way for me never to play your band. Ever.
<snap-l> PyOhio talks are announced
<snap-l> apparently some guy named brousch is talking about Python and Android
<snap-l> and some guy named rick_h_ is talking about how he hates Python and wishes we were all using PHP
<snap-l> oh wait, that's a different conference.
<rick_h_> snap-l: you ready to go back to Kobo? http://www.androidcentral.com/kobo-vox-mini-review
<brousch> Hey, a lot of Django at this PyOhio
<brousch> Good
<rick_h_> crap
<rick_h_> I'll have to sedate myeslf :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: Considering there were a crap-ton of folks ready to burn their Vox on GetSatisfaction, I'll pass.
<jrwren> i'm supporting a codebase with cherrypy 1.2 and cherrytemplate.
<jrwren> CHERRYTEMPLATE FFS!
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I didn't know there was a cherry template
<jrwren> its abandoned.
<jrwren> unsupported and unrecommended.
<jrwren> last release was 2006 or 2007
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vey-uff_LyE&feature=bf_next&list=UUWZ7WX9ga0cHolL80rxRBpQ
<snap-l> There's English Subtitles
<jrwren> electronic or metal?
<jrwren> first 22 seconds sound like it has potential :)
<snap-l> Russian Folk Music with an industrial vibe.
<snap-l> I love all of their music
<jrwren> not bad at all.
<snap-l> Hit CC to see the lyrics
<jrwren> my CC is always one :)
<jrwren> *always on
<snap-l> jrwren: You ever listen to the Club Metalcasts?
<jrwren> no
<jrwren> is that your show?
<snap-l> Yes
<jrwren> club episodes?
<jrwren> i should give a listen
<snap-l> openmetalcast.com search for "club metal"
<snap-l> There's 11 episodes of those
<jrwren> cool
<jrwren> yeah, that was a sweet track.
<snap-l> IT's a playlist
<snap-l> Rechenka / River is one of my favorits
<brousch> jrwren: Wow, that's actually the first project I've heard of using cherrypy
<brousch> FTR, I like cherrypy
<brousch> oooh, kennethreitz will be at pyohio
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Gh_3rYLPo7M
<jrwren> cherrypy isn't bad, its jsut old, in a lot of ways, that makes it great.
<jrwren> it went to plugable templates years ago.
<jrwren> nothing wrong with cherrypy
<jrwren> but cherrytemplate... ugh.
<brousch> Yeah, I've not hard of that either
<derekv> I know nothing.  I am nothing, but a spec of potential to know something one day.
<derekv> But that may be arrogance talking.
<rick_h_> ugh, morning
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, that it is
<snap-l> MUG meeting tonight
<rick_h_> ok, this is good http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
<rick_h_> oh crap, is it tonight?
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> with a double
<shakes808> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> I have decided on a theme for my PyOhio talk
<snap-l> New Metalcast Blah Blah
<snap-l> brousch: You'll probably like the third track
<brousch> Blah Blah?
<snap-l> Too tired to be clever.
<brousch> I like that title better than Blh Blah
<brousch> For you Detroiters http://spin.atomicobject.com/2012/07/10/why-we-need-more-generalist-user-groups/
<jrwren> ann arbor computer society is kind of generalist.
<jrwren> wow, that blog post is actually kinda bad IMO
<brousch> Yeh, not their best, but I wanted to draw your attention to the group
<nullspace>  gah this crash reporting software is really horribly slow
<nullspace> anyone else think the ubuntu crash reporting software is slower than really makes sense
<jrwren> it sounds like whoever started the group is a library guy and not a language guy.
<jrwren> that last paragraph was offputting for me.
<jrwren> sounded like he does not value other languages.
<jrwren> picking up libraries is easy.
<jrwren> learning from other languages is a bit harder.
<jrwren> guess which one i value more :)
<brousch> Atomic runs a similar group in GR. They focus on no language
<jrwren> right.
<brousch> It's more about things like Agile
<jrwren> that is cool and good.
<brousch> PRogramming practices, not languages or libraries
<jrwren> still, that last paragraph was telling to me.
<brousch> I don't find their meetings interesting because I rarely think at that high level
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> that is kind of sad.
<jrwren> you can do it brousch
<brousch> I can, I just don't
<brousch> I am a team of 1
<jrwren> you can do it!
<jrwren> wow, i'm pro-team, but is this guy serious?
<jrwren> http://detroit.atomicobject.com/?utm_source=spin&utm_medium=header&utm_campaign=aod-hiring  "Answer the office phone. Take out the trash. ..."
<jrwren> hire someone to do those things, don't make it every programmers job.
<brousch> Ug, I hate phones
<jrwren> i totally don't want to work there and now i have a very bad view of them.
<jrwren> me too.
<jrwren> they wanted to give me a desk phone when I started my new job.
<jrwren> i said, no thanks, here is my cell number.
<jrwren> guess how many times I've got a work related call in 4 months?  ZERO!  YAY!
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I rarely use my phone if I can help it
<jrwren> i snagged this http://www.discogs.com/Mentallo-And-The-Fixer-Associated-Projects-Benestrophe-Mainesthai-Polyhedron-A-Collection-Of-Rare-Un/master/434191  I don't know if you were every into M&tF
<snap-l> jrwren: Up until this point I hadn't heard of them. :)
<jrwren> oh wow, pretty popular industrial in the mid 90s
<snap-l> If they didn't hit Skrew levels, I was likely oblivious.
<jrwren> what is skrew?
<snap-l> Exactly. :)
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrew
<jrwren> industrial metal v. industrial electronic
<snap-l> Metal
<jrwren> ha! both from Texas, similar time periods.
<jrwren> oh right, Jourgensen, I knew I'd heard the name.
<snap-l> Hell, I found out about 16 Volt in 2005
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> you missed them eh?
<snap-l> I quickly caught up
<jrwren> i found out in 1995
<jrwren> saw 'em a few times in teh late 90s
<snap-l> Yeah, only industrial show I went to in the 1990s was Chemlab w/ Virus 23
<snap-l> At the Reptile House in GR
<jrwren> ah.
<jrwren> LOL, nice.
<jrwren> that place is long going
<jrwren> long gone rather
<snap-l> Was more of a metal head
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> Place was so small it felt like the lead singer was towering over me
<snap-l> but a hell of a show
<jrwren> i'll bet.
<jrwren> this is the stuff I loved: http://www.gearwire.com/mentallo-synths.html
<snap-l> Yeah, you were more into the electronica / noise portion
<rick_h_> GGFjiojfiowefj
<snap-l> I was looking for Ministry
<jrwren> yup, but then electronica became a dirty word.
<snap-l> You mean new agey? :)
<jrwren> something like that.
<snap-l> abient wankery
<jrwren> it became a gateway to raver town
<snap-l> Oh yeah
<snap-l> I remember one of the guys on our industrial show brought in some Utah Saints
<snap-l> and I brought in my sound effects disc
<jrwren> lol.
<snap-l> played clips of mowers over it
<jrwren> nice.
<snap-l> fucking hated rave
<jrwren> yup, i remember hating Utah Saints.
<jrwren> crystal Method, Chemical Brothers.
<jrwren> but I did like Underworld
<jrwren> there must be a gray line there somewhere.
<snap-l> Probably, but damned if I'll ever find it
<jrwren> still do like underworld & tricky
<snap-l> I have one album (The best of Wasted) which is pretty awesome throughout
<jrwren> but I never could get into Prodigy
<jrwren> Prodigy was a lot different mid 90s too
<snap-l> Was my exposure to a bunch of electronic music I hadn't heard.
<jrwren> compilation?
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasted:_The_Best_of_Volume,_Part_I
<snap-l> Yeah
<snap-l> and I always mess up the title. :)
<jrwren> well sure.
<jrwren> Cabaret Voltaire is SWEET
<jrwren> and I don't even think I know that underworld track.
<jrwren> *gasp* I don't. now i must have it!
<snap-l> :)
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000001JH6/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used
<jrwren> wow, those two disks are like one of my mix cds of the time: Schizophrenaic
<snap-l> Yeah, it's pretty eclectic
<snap-l> OK, head down. bbl
<brousch> http://linuxjournalist.blogspot.com/2012/07/official-ubuntu-chromium-repo-abandoned.html
<rick_h_> heh, yea just get it from Google
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/w9y2h/put_riaampaa_on_the_defensive_petition_to_support/
<snap-l> Sign. Please.
<rick_h_> anyone know of a way to shut network manager out of syslog?
<rick_h_> I'm kind of sick of going through reams of NM stuff when debugging ugh
<rick_h_> my google-fu is failing oh no!!!
 * waldo323_ hands rick_h_ upgraded google-fu
<jcastro> snap-l: hey so don't kill me but
<jcastro> clockwork angels feels kind of uninspired
<jrwren> [logging] level=none to NetworkManager.conf should do it.
<rick_h_> oooh ty jrwren
<rick_h_> might be able to debug this dippy hard lockup now
<rick_h_> jcastro: you heard much on the ivy bridge system lockup stuff>
<rick_h_> ?
<snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, I've not really taken to it.
<snap-l> Feels a bit like Test for Echo
<snap-l> may need more time to grow on me
<jcastro> nope
<rick_h_> woot, dropbox space increase!
<jrwren> for all?
<rick_h_> http://blog.dropbox.com/index.php/new-dropbox-pro-plans/
<jrwren> i really should use dropbox more.
<rick_h_> paid users
<jrwren> does it have cmdline interface?
<rick_h_> yea, you can install it cmd line
<rick_h_> google headless dropbox, several tutorials out there
<jrwren> i have 2.75GB. that is probably why I don't use it:)
<rick_h_> yea, with the podcast and syncing files between snap-l and I, went paid a while back
<jrwren> 21MB used, LOL
<jrwren> i'd probably just use S3
<rick_h_> but currently at 23GB of 50
<jrwren> but I guess the sync to desktop can be nice
<rick_h_> but I've kept stuff out
<rick_h_> yea, the sync between machines is ftw
<rick_h_> and versioning
<rick_h_> and mobile access
<rick_h_> I put all my travel docs/itenerary/notes in there and it synced down and could pull up on my phone
<rick_h_> and the Oreilly/prag prog integration is sweetness, more things need to start doing that
<jrwren> i use evernote for that
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm using Dropbox more often
<rick_h_> might be an easy way to do the instapaper readlist->kindle
<snap-l> esp with the links to O'Reilly and Pragprog
<rick_h_> bookie dumps toread html articles to your dropbox folder
<snap-l> I put coupons in there that I get for Caribou and such
<snap-l> so I have it
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> the fact that it's 'everywhere' is handy
<rick_h_> and lansync is awesome for my 3 machines on the network
<rick_h_> syncs so fast
<rick_h_> I want to <3 U1 but just can't get there when dropbox does the stuff I need.
<snap-l> I have dropbox set up on all of my machines
<snap-l> U1 never got set up at work.
<jrwren> ha, got 500MB of dropbox just for uploading photos from my phone
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> any trick to get cut -f -1 to work like I'd hope and return the last field?
<rick_h_> ah grep -o '[^/]*$' works out nicely
<snap-l> Run DMC is getting back together
<brousch> Dangit. I started using Crashplan because I outgrew the 100GB Dropbox
<brousch> Now I would fit under the 200GB, but I have paid for a year of crashplan
<jrwren> jcastro is moving to a bad neighborhood. http://annarbor.com/news/crime/man-shot-in-the-knee-possibly-hit-by-car-in-ypsilanti-township/
<snap-l> Yeah, ypsi has been heading into the toilet.
<brousch> We warned him about ypsi
<greg-g> before we had rowan, we would totally live in Ypsi, just those schools suck
<jrwren>  good read: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2012/6/22/hate-hate-hate-everywhere/?utm_source=Python+Weekly+Newsletter&utm_campaign=38bf3dc602-Python_Weekly_Issue_41_June_28_2012&utm_medium=email
<greg-g> anyone know how to reset an admin password on a mailman list?
<jrwren> ping me in a few hrs and I can look up how to do it for you
<greg-g> jrwren: heh, no worries, if you don't know off hand, I can search for the answer myself
<greg-g> :)
<waldo323_> not sure if it changes version to version but this might help: $MAILMAN/bin/mmsitepass
<waldo323_> it sets the site password
<greg-g> waldo323_: I don't have shell access, it is just a list that I ended up being the admin for, need to stop getting the daily "there are spam messages you need to deal with" messages :)
<waldo323_> oh ouch, should be able to get it reset from the web interface to the mailing list, most likely by the unsubscribe and edit options button
<greg-g> waldo323_: I thought the admin password was diff/sep from my own password, I know how to reset my own, just unclear on the admin... let me finally do some searching now :)
<greg-g> there doesn't seem to be a straight-forward way: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-December/048241.html
<greg-g> all results talk about shell access stuff, oh well, I'll bug my buddy later, he's running a hackathon today
<greg-g> (the buddy who runs the server that the list is hosted on)
<waldo323_> ok good luck
<greg-g> thanks for the tips, though!
<snap-l> greg-g: Here's a tip that might help
<snap-l> on the mail message should be an attachment with "confirm (hash)" as the subject
<snap-l> reply to that section of the mail to discard the mail
<snap-l> Unfortunately, if it's sending the "you have x moderator requests pending", it's too late for the confirmation trick
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, tried that :)
<snap-l> greg-g: I finally figured out what the damn thing was wanting. :)
<greg-g> :)
<gamerchick02> how's it going greg-g? I see a grin, so things must be good.
<greg-g> gamerchick02: things aren't bad :)
<greg-g> gamerchick02: in DC, for about a week, for 3 events, then Portland next week for OSCON, so busy. Miss Rowan
<greg-g> but, we went backpacking in NorCal last week and that was awesome
<greg-g> I have the mosquito bites to prove it ;)
<snap-l> Lovely
<snap-l> Ive been happy with the lack of mosquitoes this way
<greg-g> It made me rethink my "no long button up shirts" rule
<snap-l> I think the dry weather really did them in
<greg-g> SF has zero, but the mountains had a ton
<greg-g> SF also is the worst place to be in the summer (constant fog, and about 58 degrees, ugh)
<snap-l> I'm OK with the 58 degrees, but the fog would drive me nuts
<greg-g> yeah, it is like seattle, but no rain (just the clouds)
<greg-g> the dampness is making my bones ache (hey, I'm 30, I can say that now)
<snap-l> heh
<greg-g> god, it didn't really start hitting until now, I'm 30. 30 years and 8 days. Wow.
<gamerchick02> cool!
<gamerchick02> greg-g, i'm 30, and yeah, i never had the bones aching before. ugh
<greg-g> dang oldness, where's the pill for this?
<gamerchick02> i'm going to be 31 come a week from Saturday.
<greg-g> oh, well, if I don't see you, Happy bday!
<gamerchick02> dunno. but if there was one, we'd have seen the commercials for it on TV.
<gamerchick02> :) i will
<gamerchick02> i'm going up to Saginaw and we're going to a picnic.
 * snap-l mumbles something about damn kids
<greg-g> "Ask your doctor about DeAge, even though you probably aren't a good fit for it, and you are just doing things because the TV told you to"
<gamerchick02> LOL!!!
<gamerchick02> dang, you Newegg and your tempting deals!!!
 * greg-g hates drug ads
<gamerchick02> i do too.
 * gamerchick02 mumbles something about getting off my lawn
<snap-l> Oh, they're awesome.
<gamerchick02> newegg?
<snap-l> 150 side effects that all affect quality of life, and you're good to go
<gamerchick02> yes, newegg is awesome.
<gamerchick02> LOL
<gamerchick02> does anyone need cables>
<gamerchick02> ? not >
<gamerchick02> i've a promo code for 20% off cables.
<gamerchick02> ALL cables.
<snap-l> I'm cabled up for now, thanks
<gamerchick02> heh.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-11
<rick_h_> greg-g: welcome to the club. Soon you'll have to stop and think when someone asks you your age
<rick_h_> I think 33 was the first time I got it wrong. I said 32 and my wife shouted "you are not!"
<greg-g> hehe
<snap-l> hah
<snap-l> Worse is when you forget how long it's been since a particular event.
<snap-l> "Oh, that was 5 years ago." "No, it was 10"
<snap-l> Ugh
<gamerchick02> oh no. so the forgetfulness comes along before you're 40?
<gamerchick02> everything goes to hell after 30?
<gamerchick02> i'm going to be the ripe old age of 31 this year.
<gamerchick02> where's my cane?
<jrwren> greg-g: you are only 30? holy shit, I thought you were 40! :p
<derekv> I forgot about mug.
<derekv> I had a really stupid day.
<rick_h_> ugh, sucky
<derekv> basically missed work, was going to take care of getting the insurance check but it turned into an all day fiasco
<rick_h_> ah, so at least it wasn't that bad a work day
<rick_h_> kind of scary http://goo.gl/OOa7B
<brousch1> Scay?
<brousch1> Scary?
<rick_h_> yea, you spend years putting all this code into github, and then github turns it around and turns it into a recruiter info haven
<rick_h_> github -> dice.com
<brousch1> Well, that's betterthan just letting it rot
<derekv> are recruiters really a problem?
<derekv> seems like a good kind of problem.
<derekv> like its a problem when your a rockstar ppl want you to sign things
<derekv> I mean, its just spam.
<derekv> And I don't seem to have a big problem with it, somehow =/
<greg-g> jrwren: :P
<jrwren> i think githubs plans are quite a bit different than that.
<jrwren> their current management structure means that none of the current employees would actually execute that icky vision.
<jrwren> greg-g: having a baby at age 29 was fabulous for me. I think it shall be wonderful for you.
<snap-l> This is why I closed my linkedin account
<snap-l> I think my future opportunities are all via github and connections
<snap-l> If I never have to hit dice.com ever again, it'll be too soon
<derekv> well linked-in just sucks
<snap-l> yes
<derekv> does it make me look bad that i'm shopping around for a new job?
<snap-l> Not unless you want to fee bad about it
<derekv> or maybe just if I phrase it that way.
<snap-l> Honestly, I don't think jobs are the cradle-to-grave endeavors they used to be
<snap-l> my dad worked with the same company for so long, they were like family
<snap-l> I don't think I'll ever get that feeling
<derekv> snap-l: yea clearly most companies don't want that and many employees don't expect that either
<jrwren> i did at srt.
<jrwren> i left anyway.
<jrwren> just who i am.
<derekv> I don't want to be doing busness related software/ consulting... I've learned a lot, there's potentially a good career out of it, if I kept with it, I would continue to learn.
<derekv> Its just not what I picture myself doing.
<snap-l> Business anything means dealing with dysfunction
<derekv> snap-l: thank you for saying it so succinctly
<derekv> I had something more like "Business is people and processes attached parasitically to something which makes money, the whole functional strategy of  which is to appear complex for the sake of justifying its own existence."
<derekv> On the one hand, I'm really interested in agile, kanban, tdd, etc, whatever, dependancy injection, user stories, facade pattern ... all these ideas, I want to experiment with them and see, at the end of a project, what really helped?
<derekv> but to that end I risk making code too complex, unintentionally, because I needed to try something
<derekv> and so on the other shoulder I have a little guy saying that all that is BS and its getting in the way of programming
<derekv> how many tests should I write like testThatAppDelegateCanBeInstantiated instantiate
<derekv> stutter
<shakes808> morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> is it friday yet?
<snap-l> Not yet
<snap-l> My alarm woke me funny this morning. Have been a bit out of sorts because of it.
<shakes808> +1 to rick_h
<rick_h_> crap, just had my first "why?" 20 times in a row with the boy
<rick_h_> "don't touch daddy's book please" "why?"
<rick_h_> "because you tend to destroy things, and daddy wants to keep that book" "why?"
<rick_h_> "because you're a toddler..." "why?"
<snap-l> "because at this age, you're a precocious little youngster who is more interested in engaging in converation to try to get his way of touching the book than in actually discussing the issue at hand, which is 'Daddy doesn't want you touching that book'"
<brousch> rick_h_: Sometimes it's fun
<brousch> Good educational opportunity
<rick_h_> yea, well just try to answer each honestly and see where it goes
<brousch> Exactly
<brousch> Though it can be annoying if you're trying to do something else
<brousch> I got to cut an apple in half last week to demonstrate the shape of the earth and its interior
<snap-l> Hm, hoping I can figure out these modem troubles.
<snap-l> seem to be getting disconnected at least once a day when the modem resets.
<snap-l> just reset the modem after a call to WOWWay
<snap-l> but it did get a ful power-down when we had the power outage
<brousch> I found your problem. You are using a modem.
<snap-l> brousch: Well, I can't find the telegraph.
<brousch> That's what you get for throwing away old tech.
<brousch> "Good news! You now have 109GB of space in your Dropbox!"
<rick_h_> woot
<rick_h_> usic in there now
<rick_h_> bah
<rick_h_> I might have to drop my music in there now
<brousch> I just moved mine out 3 months ago
<snap-l> Yeah, I have 104.25GB of space
<snap-l> and I'm using 4.5GB of it
<nullspace> snap-l: how did you manage that?
<snap-l> I pay for the extra storage? :)
<nullspace> ah
<nullspace> I though you ment you got it for free, I was like holy crap you manged to get a bunch of people to join
<nullspace> wait that's limited at 18GB
<nullspace> hmm ubuntu one never really took off
<brousch> You also get some free when you activate auto-uploads of photos from your phone
<brousch> And they have occasional quests
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha my evil is complete http://pypi.python.org/pypi/launchpad_yui
<rick_h_> and auto push/popd ftw
<jrwren> snap-l, derekv i would like to correct you on your definition of business last night and suggest that you are overly cynical
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I must have missed this
<snap-l> jrwren: Perhaps it is the size of the company that brings about the cynical nature.
<jrwren> my girl never went through the endless why phase. I'm jealous of you guys.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Congratulations!
<jrwren> snap-l: agreed, in general big means bad.
<snap-l> big == complicated
<snap-l> It's like steering a battleship
<brousch> Hm, pyjamas could really use some better documentation
<brousch> This is gonna be a challenge to get it working
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> really?
<rick_h_> what are you doing with pyjamas?
<jrwren> yet complexity does not have to mean dysfunction.
<brousch> rick_h_: Part of my Python on/for Android decent into madness
<snap-l> jrwren: It's a great company that can manage complexity without becoming dysfunctional
<brousch> Descent
<snap-l> jrwren: I have yet to see this.
<jrwren> me too.
<jrwren> i'd point to companies, but none are "big"
<jrwren> some are no longer tiny.
<jrwren> github is on the verge of something either very great, or their time is about come and the will become too large for awesome.
<jrwren> i really hope they continue with their greatness.
<snap-l> jrwren: The problems start creeping in when the cash flow doesn't exceed the expenses
<snap-l> That's usually when "the adults" come into a company and start making sweeping changes in the name of keeping things afloat.
<jrwren> at that point, it is too late.
<snap-l> The problems come in whenever the company defines themselves so radically different from their current customer base.
<jrwren> but SRT handled that extremely well, so it does not always happen badly
<jrwren> oh yes, that is a huge problem.
<snap-l> SRT still has the founders on-board
<jrwren> the founders still run the company
<jrwren> no outside funds.
<snap-l> right
<snap-l> once you start getting outside funds, that's when things start to fester.
<jrwren> outside funding is a first huge warning sign, which is why I worry a bit about github
<snap-l> and why I worry about facebook, even though I can't stand them.
<snap-l> The first earnings call they have where they miss their target is when it'll all go to shit
<jrwren> for certain products its difficult if not impossible to build a company around without some up front capital
<snap-l> (or at least trend that way)
<jrwren> software and services have the luxury of being easily bootstrapable
<snap-l> Note how many folks are still with Geeknet
<jrwren> maybe.
<jrwren> public companies are different.
<jrwren> i have no idea how many geeknet folks there are.
<jrwren> all /. founders are gone AFAIK, but I don't know about the other original companies which were aquired
<snap-l> They're gone too
<jrwren> and they are public
<jrwren> so they answer to shareholders, although I can't imagine they have a vocal shareholder
<snap-l> They do.
<jrwren> really?
<snap-l> Check their stock.
<jrwren> oh 33% insider held.
<jrwren> by whom I wonder.
<jrwren> gotta be an early investor.
<snap-l> nope
<jrwren> wow, they are bleeding.
<jrwren> not an early investor?
<jrwren> did someone just come in and buy?
<snap-l> yep
<jrwren> haha, SUCKER!
<snap-l> http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyOfficers?symbol=GKNT.O&WTmodLOC=C4-Officers-5
<jrwren> oh, the board is the 33% holders?
<brousch> greg-g: I am unable to parse your tweet. I think one of us is not awake yet.
<greg-g> probably me
<greg-g> untappd is an app, it appears in my twitter timeline when my contacts are drinking beer, I assume it also lets you rate the beers you are drinking
 * greg-g has not used it
<greg-g> it is like a foursquare of beer drinking, it appears
<greg-g> brousch: ^
<brousch> heh, thanks
<brousch> Darn 140 characters
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> also, I feel hungover from drinking one beer last night
<greg-g> though, I mostly blame sleeping in this hotel room
<brousch> I've had that from strong beers like Dragon's Milk or Dirty Bastard
<greg-g> it wasn't too bad, it was an IPA, uh, something local (DC)
<brousch> I don't like IPAs. Too hoppy
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm not a fan of IPas either
<jrwren> i love ipa, more hops please, and pass the hops and can i have a side of hops with that.
<brousch> Your comment made me make the bitter beer face
 * greg-g looooves hops
<greg-g> I even got my mom into hops, she loooves the dogfish head 90 minute :)
<greg-g> the one they sell in 4 packs because it is like 10 or so percent :)
<greg-g> mmmmmmmmm
<jrwren> greg-g: same here with my dad. I handed him a huma lumpa licious and it was like he rediscovered beer.
<jrwren> i watched his face light up like a child. it was awesome.
<jrwren> then he mentioned that he bought some for himself weeks later.
<jrwren> ... question for linux folks: this is a weird sudoers entry, right? ALL     ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
<jrwren> adn by weird, i mean, all can sudo as root
<greg-g> jrwren: mmmmm huma lumpa licious
<jrwren> my wife is taking me west mi beer touring this weekend :)
<greg-g> I need a pre noon beer now :)
<greg-g> niice!
<rick_h_> jrwren: so...they've just said "if you have an account on here with a password you can sudo" ?
<rick_h_> not even that, nopasswd ...hmm yea strange I guess
<snap-l> If the end game is passwordless sudo... ;)
<snap-l> Weird is a relative term, though. But yeah, it's a pretty loose entry
<brousch> jrwren: Where are you going? We went to Saugatuck Brewing Company last weekend. It was a really nice pub/restaurant with a large variety of their own beers
<jrwren> brousch: i'm not sure. she is planning it.
<jrwren> brousch: I think we will probably hit founders and that other GR brewery.
<jrwren> maybe we will stop in marshall and battlecreek on our way? I really don't know.
<brousch> Hopcat or Brewery Vivant?
<brousch> I think you would like Vivant
<jrwren> after some thought, I've decided that the sudoers is *really bad* because if any account is breeched, it has access to root. *BAD*
<jrwren> brousch: maybe both, I dunno.
<jrwren> which is an old church?
<rick_h_> jrwren: that's why it should be limited to the duty of that login, specific commands/etc
<brousch> jrwren: Yeah, and old church. They have great atmosphere and interesting beers
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, root should be given sparingly
<snap-l> if it's a dev box, and it doesn't matter if the machine goes to hell, that would be fine
<snap-l> but if it impacts other people, or has access to machines that do, it's generally considered bad form.
<jrwren> this is production
<jrwren> only 1 user account on the system, but its teh system accounts i am more concerned with.
<jrwren> a www-data code execution would be bad
<rick_h_> jrwren: but can you sudo if you don't have a shell?
<rick_h_> I've never tried it, but would imagine that would be false
<jrwren> yes, you can.
<jrwren> there is good use case for it too.
<jrwren> e.g. cron job as regular user which calls sudo for a command. the sudoers permits only that command for that user, not ALL.
<derekv> hi
<snap-l> jrwren: You might want to chroot that command
<snap-l> or move it to another box
<brousch> snap-l: http://i.imgur.com/aJGy6.jpg
<jrwren> snap-l: huh? why?
<snap-l> brousch: I've wanted to make WWHRD stuff for years.
<snap-l> jrwren: Keeps cron honest.
<snap-l> if cron needs to sudo, there's abuse potential
<derekv> i can't set repeating appointments with google calander that I could specify with cron I've figured out.
<derekv> like "last friday before 15th and 1st every month""
<snap-l> I know how to do the latter, but not sure how to do the former
<waldo323_> or for the same event
<jrwren> snap-l: not the cron user, a different user, and of course the single command would need to be audited. I'm not advocating sudo vi or cat :)
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://cjohansen.no/talks/2011/xp-meetup/#25
<derekv> oh man, good things come to those who slack
<derekv> controlallrobots.com is open again
<snap-l> rick_h_: cute
<rick_h_> snap-l: thought you'd like that slide
<greg-g> jcastro: dude, you have 3 user accounts on the oscon website :)
<waldo323_> are they using sched.org for there scheduling?
<jcastro> greg-g: yeah I duno what's up with that
<greg-g> well, I marked them all as contacts :)
<jcastro> I don't like the oreilly thing
<jcastro> it's like, let's make our own dumber social network
<jcastro> like "so and so sent you a message!"
<jcastro> so I have to go to their site, etc. to find it
<greg-g> yeah, probably dumb that I just added people as contacts, Danese Cooper added me so I was like "hmm, why not?
<greg-g> "
<jcastro> well it's like
<jcastro> oreilly makes me tell them everything anyway
<jcastro> like my twitter and email
<jcastro> why not just give that to greg instead of making something up
<greg-g> yeah
<nullspace> wait o'rielly has a social media service?
<jrwren> pylint doesn't check anything wrt pep257. bummer.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but there's a module for it
<rick_h_> https://github.com/GreenSteam/pep257
<jrwren> ty
<jrwren> listening to Kraftwerk discog chronologically, and amazed at how much music there is before their first singing.
<snap-l> jrwren: The Man Machine is their first singing album irrc
<jrwren> radioactivity ?
<jrwren> well, I counted radioactivity, just given teh song radioactivity.
<snap-l> well, autobahn has vocoder
<jrwren> yeah, i wasn't counting it.
<jrwren> i know, i should.
<jrwren> fun fun fun
<snap-l> http://profbanks.com/?p=585 <- per earlier convo
<brousch> Ug, crazy day.
<brousch> Someone take over for 20mins so I can nap
<Blazeix> i've got it, you can go nap now.
<brousch> Blazeix: You let 3 guys get past you. They asked me more questions.
<jrwren> apport doesn't use http_proxy? LAME
<jrwren> how many bugs does a guy have to file? :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: best things ever fyi: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HN6CX8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01
<snap-l> This may be the greatest invention since sliced bread. I'm a knot expert and usually adjust guylines myself, but when it's pouring rain and the wind is blowing 40 mph sideways, these are the cat's ass. And, I guess what really makes me love them is the relatively low price for a great idea that works as advertised.
<rick_h_> yea, I got two for this last camping trip. I bought four more and a new tarp after how well it worked out. The caribiner to clip on one end just works awesome
<rick_h_> quick to adjust, etc
<rick_h_> I am not a knot expert, I should learn some of those sometime for sure
<rick_h_> and reflective lines ftw
<jrwren> no surprise: when the Killing Joke album ended and kidneythieves started, it was pretty obvious
<snap-l> jrwren: I had a similar experience
<snap-l> when Ivan Ilic's album of piano stopped, it was pretty clear that Dead Kennedys was on.
<jrwren> lol
<snap-l> https://ting.com/blog/a-ting-device-update-here-now-coming-soon-and-beyond/
<derekv> might not be able to make chc tonight.
<rick_h_> boooooo!
<derekv> we'll see
 * rick_h_ releases the hounds
 * derekv chases the hounds
<snap-l> I program m home computer
<snap-l> beam myself into the future
<snap-l> n
<jrwren> haha, finally have a kvm guest with a kvm kernel - /dev/vda for my virtio disk. rawk!
<waldo323_> Blazeix, was that a plugin or config you have for your line numbers in vim?
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, I've seen those in the stores and always really tempted, but since I didn't have anything that at the time needed to be tied down/whatever, I didn't get them. I should just get them for the car.
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I used them on a tarp and they worked so well I just stocked up
<greg-g> nicre
<greg-g> -r
<snap-l> waldo323_: It's built in
<snap-l> set relnum
<snap-l> sorry
<snap-l> set relativenumber
<snap-l> Blazeix: Also, do you have "set paste" running?
<snap-l> well, not running, but acive?
<Blazeix> snap-l: no, i don't use 'set paste'. I do have "set clipboard=unnamed" which seems to make copying/pasting in vim mostly work with the linux clipboards
<snap-l> RIght, but I was wondering if that was causing your indenting issues.
<rick_h_> woot http://yuilibrary.com/gallery/show/anim-morph
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-12
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> on
<snap-l> wayne
<greg-g> party on garth
<rick_h_> Hey, someone is up early :P
<brousch> Whoa, crazy
<brousch> Isn't it like 3AM for greg-g?
<snap-l> more like going on 4AM, but still...
<brousch> Ah, West MI strikes again http://idle.slashdot.org/story/12/07/11/2045209/holy-ipad-slayer-company-releases-worlds-first-christian-tablet
<greg-g> I'm in DC right now :)
<brousch> OSCON?
<brousch> No, wait, that is Portland
<brousch> and next week
<rick_h_> I'm jealous!
<rick_h_> greg-g: send me portland pics pls!
<rick_h_> help me feel cooler
<shakes808> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<jrwren> wtf, holy ipad slayer???? i shall not click that link. :)
<jrwren> portland!
<jrwren> i'm jealous too. I want to live in portlandia
<rick_h_> jrwren: let's hide in greg-g's bags
<rick_h_> greg-g: get your luggage through dtw plese
<jrwren> hehehe
<jrwren> rick_h_: lets take 2 or 3 weeks and bike there. that would be the portlandish thing to do.
<rick_h_> oooh, true. I don't think I'd make it to GR...but good call
<brousch> Funny you mention that. One hard-core biker at my wife's work planned to bike Route 66 this summer. He planned for bears, wolves, etc. He made it to the Indiana/Illinois border when his campsite was destroyed by a pack of racoons in a thunderstorm
<rick_h_> sorry...but...lamo!
<brousch> Crazy
<brousch> I think had $1500 in super light camping gear
<jrwren> yeah, that is pretty lame.
<jrwren> my excoworker biked across the USA last summer. pacific to atlantic.
<jrwren> http://www.annarbor.com/news/rolling-across-the-country/
<jrwren> portland to dc.
<jrwren> hrm... seems like going from test best place on earth to the worst.
<greg-g> rick_h_: :) will do
<greg-g> heh, yeah, DC isn't nice. :) Here for Wikimania (and I was at a couple other things since tuesday, presented yesterday, presenting again today)
<snap-l> What the hell is wrong with you people wanting to move to portland?
<brousch> It's right by a frickin volcano
<snap-l> Let's put things in perspective
<snap-l> IT HAS FUCKING HIPPIES ALL OVER THE FUCKING PLACE
<brousch> You yell that like it is a bad thing
<snap-l> IT IS
<jrwren> hippies are really nice to live around
<jrwren> and they tollerate me being the industrial electronic wears-too-much-black on the block
<brousch> Damn, that was too easy
<brousch> Python->Pyjamas->PhoneGap basically just works
<rick_h_> coolness
<brousch> I was expecting more fiddling
<nullspace> so I'm playing with a python script and having issues http://paste2.org/p/2071220
<nullspace> I don't know why it's complaining about the strings I assinged
<brousch> I get an error on line,match
<nullspace> my errors are on 3 - yahoo: command not found, 4 - ours: command not found, 6- syntax error near unexpected token '('
<jrwren> quote your regex?
<brousch> Are you running it under bash instead of python?
<snap-l> brousch: ++
<nullspace> brousch: I just figured that out rigth before you said it
<nullspace> herp derp
<snap-l> bash is a harsh mistress. ;)
<brousch> Good morning!
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> #!/usr/bin/env python
<jrwren> ^^ FFS!
<nullspace> now it's complainign about he yfile.close()
<nullspace> http://paste2.org/p/2071246
<rick_h_> change that to: with open(yahoo) as yfile:
<rick_h_> and tab in the rest of that line
<jrwren> or just don't bother closing it.
<jrwren> it will close when the script ends.
<rick_h_> http://www.doughellmann.com/PyMOTW/contextlib/
<snap-l> speaking of Yahoo, apparently there was a breach
<brousch> indeed
<brousch> Can we blame YUI?
<snap-l> Blame Yahoo video chat
<snap-l> which up until this point I didn't realize existed.
<nullspace> thus this little script I'
<nullspace> I'm checking a list of hashes to see if the same passwords are used
<nullspace> still getting an invalid syntax on the yfile.close()
<snap-l> nullspace: Making sure your password isn't in there?
<nullspace> yfile is tabed within the "with"
<brousch> nullspace: Then you don't need the close
<nullspace> snap-l: making sure users are nto resuing shitty passwords on sites that don't secure passwords
<jrwren> just delete teh close.
<jrwren> you don't need it.
<jrwren> python is not java or C#. you don't need to close the filehandle, it is closed automatically when it goes out of scope.
<snap-l> nullspace: That's like predicting if there will be air this morning.
<nullspace> now it's complaingin about the second with
<nullspace> complaining even
<jrwren> are you mixing tabs and space? :)
<brousch> Second with?
<jrwren> he had 2 open() statemnts which he enclosed in two with statements
<jrwren> s/statemnts/calls/
<snap-l> nullspace: Repaste?
<nullspace> http://paste2.org/p/2071257
<snap-l> What's the traceback?
<snap-l> Also, your /n should be \n (otherwise it'll print /n instead of a linefeed
<nullspace> traceback?
<snap-l> Yeah, what's the error it's complaining about?
<nullspace>   File "compare.py", line 18
<nullspace>     with open(ours) as ofile:
<nullspace>        ^
<nullspace> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
<snap-l> missing paren
<snap-l> line 16
<jrwren> what does python -V show?
<nullspace> 2.7.3
<snap-l> You're missing a closing paren
<snap-l> acknowledge?
<nullspace> yes
<snap-l> is it working now?
<nullspace> that fixed it, now I'm on to getting my string.split syntax correct
<jrwren> also, prefer line.split() to string.split(line)
<jrwren> but that is a style thing
<snap-l> jrwren: ++
<jrwren> pylint would tell ya :)
<snap-l> Man I'm not sure what WRCJ uses to rip their CDs but they have a bunch of glitches.
<jrwren> WRCJ?
<snap-l> I feel like spending an afternoon with their archivist
<jrwren> do they supply an EAC log file?
<snap-l> WRCJ 90.9FM
<snap-l> http://wrcjfm.org/
<jrwren> ha! you can hear artifacts on the broadcast?
<snap-l> Yeah, I can
<snap-l> they'll skip and have other digital distortion
<snap-l> like a bad rip
<snap-l> Though I did send their program manager a link to Magnatune. :)
<snap-l> and explained all of the goodies therin
<snap-l> God, us.archive.ubuntu.com is slow from here.
<snap-l> Downloading mercurial, and it's taking for-ev-er
<snap-l> https://bitbucket.org/amorris/openpyxl/src <- hoping this gives me some love
<nullspace> ah nice no matches
<snap-l> WEll, it also depends on their hashing
<nullspace> turns out the file.readline() just reads one line
<snap-l> or were these released as clear-text?
<nullspace> plaintext
<snap-l> Oh lovely
<nullspace> I was hashing them and trowing them in a set, then checking the set
<jrwren> anyone looked at julia programming language?
<rick_h_> nope
<nullspace> how did CHC go last night, I was stuck fixing cat 5e line in my house and patching drywall
<jrwren> omg, I am definitely in love with Julia. I will be finding a reason to use it asap.
<snap-l> nullspace: Went OK
<snap-l> definitely the humor edition
<derekv> big guns edition
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> btw: The Sword is some awesome coding music
<snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword
<derekv> I was, of course, reffering to my ample bicepts.
<derekv> ;)
<snap-l> brousch: You might like The Sword. They're heavily influenced by Black Sabbath
<brousch> What sword?
<snap-l> The Sword. It's a band name
<snap-l> pasted the link above
<brousch> oh
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2SCIoq0VX4
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34BXwlOmUjE
<jrwren> i'm introducing myself to Abney Park right now. Interesting band.
<snap-l> Yeah, I can handle about 3 minutes of them before I need to change it
<snap-l> I think I need to just sit down and listen to it.
<snap-l> but I have total respect for them and what they're doing
<snap-l> kinda like Voltaire
<snap-l> I can only handle so much crazy in one sitting
<rick_h_> nullspace: went ok, not a ton done tbh
<rick_h_> I ranted too much :P
<rick_h_> poor derekv trying to be productive
<rick_h_> and we checked out guns and night sights
<rick_h_> now to do some hunter/gatherer stuff for lunch
<rick_h_> lmao for the lunch break https://twitter.com/alex_gaynor/status/223450028914642945
<derekv> I wasn't really trying to get much done.  I got my domain registered.
<derekv> I'm happy I got controllallrobots back
<derekv> maybe will put my blog there If I do that
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/223455691103404032
<derekv> tvatthebar.com  (tv at the bar) in case I ever do a web comic (unlikely)
<greg-g> snap-l: nice :)
<greg-g> for both your message and their response
<snap-l> greg-g: Heh
 * derekv roots droid
 * derekv fails
 * snap-l registered his new domain name
<greg-g> what is it?
<snap-l> classicalcommons.com
<snap-l> greg-g: ^^^
<greg-g> good deal, gandi :)
<greg-g> snap-l: so, the podcast idea is moving along? ;)
<snap-l> greg-g: maybe
<brousch> snap-l: My friend that did the cartoon music podcast did an "Action and Adventure" music podcast. That was some good stuff
<brousch> http://openlicensedmusic.blogspot.com/2012/06/episode-5-actionadventure-music.html
<nullspace> yeay my ipv6 address is setup at home
<nullspace> granted via tunnel
<derekv> do'n things is hard!
<derekv> also, can gechya inta a heapload o trouble
<jrwren> which tunnel service?
<derekv> i <3 o p e n s s h
<Blazeix> i <3 h a r d - t o - r e a d  t r a c k i n g
<derekv> stylized text
<snap-l> th15 15 4 b3tt3r w4y 0f 5p34k1ng 4nyw4y
<derekv> WHAT ABOUT THIS THIS IS COOL YES
<snap-l> ThIs iS a BettEr wAy oF spEakiNg aNywaY
<brousch> this_is_the_proper_way_of_speaking
<derekv> ebg13 vf gur cebcre jnl bs fcrnxvat naljnlf
<_stink_> comeOnPeopleYouKnowBetter
<Blazeix> We haven't even started to explore colors!
<derekv> red on green plz
<derekv> /*"//"//'\////\P/\/\i/\/\c/\/\k//\//\e//\//\t\\/\\/*\/\/F\/\/e\/\/n\/\/c\/\/e//'//"*/
<ColonelPanic001> I also like hard to read things.
<snap-l> https://plus.google.com/117777908934895049975/posts/iMNMfAY8nHn
<snap-l> Digg was bought for half a million dollars
<rick_h_> ouch
<rick_h_> and kevin rose laughs all the way to the bank
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> I think he divested himself a while ago
<snap-l> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m72fk8prET1r3kmkso1_400.jpg <- snicker
<widox> wow, that's cheap
<widox> I haven't been on digg in awhile
<widox> haha, and they raised a total of $45M. ouch
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-13
<rick_h_> http://goo.gl/Vz8PK
<rick_h_> interesting read
<jrwren> i like hte last few paragraphs on firewalls.
<jrwren> application firewalls are useless junk.
<jrwren> they exists so vendors can sell more firewalls.
<snap-l> jrwren: eh? What do you mean by app firewalls?
<jrwren> we need a firewall in front of every webserver
<jrwren> that mentality is wrong.
<jrwren> radware application firewalls
<jrwren> baracuda
<jrwren> so i mean web app firewall
<jrwren> not app firewall like apparmor
<jrwren> apparmor is actually pretty sweet.
<snap-l> I was thinking something like iptables
<snap-l> that's really the extent of what you need
<snap-l> Having a separate hardware firewall in front of every box is wasteful
<jrwren> right
<jrwren> but dont tell a radware salesperson that
<snap-l> I'll tell a salesperson that
<jrwren> they'll scare a poor it manager into buying'
<snap-l> it's their job to convince me otherwise.
<snap-l> It's highly unlikely they will, though. ;)
 * snap-l sees a promising career as a crankly old man in his future.
<jrwren> you are smart though.
<jrwren> lots of people buy those things because they aren't smart enough to learn or listen to truth
<snap-l> They see it as an easy way out
<snap-l> It's snake-oil
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> "but we spent $1M on security to prevent this kind of thing"
<jrwren> and then the C levels probably believe that shit.
<jrwren> HA!
 * snap-l just picked up Reinventing the Steel by Pantera
<snap-l> Album is 12 years old
<snap-l> but I had such a bad taste in my mouth from The Great Southern Trendkill, I avoided this album
<snap-l> Good morning
<shakes808> mornign
<shakes808> morning
<shakes808> Amazon has some free music. Not sure what they all are, but I got them. What the hell right?
<shakes808>   http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1342181060/ref=sr_grid_price?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&sort=price&rd=1&field-keywords=free&url=search-alias%3Ddigital-music     http://www.amazon.com/25-Songs-of-Summer-Explicit/dp/B008A5QBKU?tag=dealswoot-20
<snap-l> Sometimes samplers are good
<snap-l> I've found some bands from samplers.
<shakes808> I think these are full songs
<snap-l> They are
<shakes808> ... Oh, you mean samplers as in compilations
<snap-l> I mean samplers in the "here's a collection of somewhat-related music
<snap-l> yeah
<shakes808> gotcha
<shakes808> Yeah, I found a lot of bands that way as well.
<brousch> I let snap-l find all my new bands for me
<shakes808> Warped Tour, OzzFest and the like
<shakes808> haha
<brousch> You laugh, but it's basically true
<snap-l> tghank you
<snap-l> I'm flattered. :)
<brousch> On average I find 1 new band from every episode of omc
<shakes808> You need to Carpe Diem. Coming from a person that was formally in a few bands, you need to go and find them. There is a considerable amount of bands that aren't discovered just quite yet that you should try to see. I hear that GR is a great place for metal bands and you aren't that far from Chicago :D
<shakes808> If I lived in GR I would be in Chicago A LOT lol
<shakes808> How long is that drive?
<brousch> I don't have time to listen to the music I have now. I see no reason to go find more
<shakes808> lol
<shakes808> There is always a reason to find more music ;)
<shakes808> My CD collection is comprised of over 1000 CD and a few hundred-ish tapes. Not including what I had downloaded throughout the years from Napster and the like. Also sharing between my friends. I make it a point to rotate my songs :D
<rick_h_> TGIF
<brousch> rick_h_: Is your new toy coming today?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, no word on shipping yet :(
<rick_h_> looking like something went boom and it got bumped to next week, but we'll see
<brousch> Hm, some people have been getting them
<rick_h_> in that case I pissed as I reserved mine the first day on the 27th
<snap-l> rick_h_: When is it supposed to arrive? (This is which toy?)
<rick_h_> The Nexus 7 I pre-ordered
<rick_h_> supposedly they're were supposed to be shipping the 12th
<rick_h_> but stores are being asked to hold them back and something is going on with it
<snap-l> You know exactly when it'll be released...
<snap-l> ... Friday before PyOhio
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> TIL you can make a proper apk package with SL4A. More fun for my talk.
<snap-l> ENNie award nominations are out
<snap-l> http://www.enworld.org/forum/news/326444-announcing-2012-gen-con-en-world-rpg-awards-nominees.html
<snap-l> Kind of cool to see some stuff I like on that list.
<jrwren> i almost asked what a apk package is :)
<brousch> :P
<brousch> You're welcome! http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2012/07/report_little_west_michigan_de.html
<PainBank> question, does ubuntu come with the AIR runtime?
<brousch> Adobe discontinued AIR for Linux
<brousch> That was about 1 year ago, so any version of AIR is going to be old and crusty
<PainBank> OR if Canonical wanted to, they could pay one of Adobe's partners to update that runtime, but it will always cost something, which isn't being done.  to no one's surprise here.
<PainBank> thanks.
<brousch> I say let AIR die, and Flash
<snap-l> http://superuser.com/questions/447483/why-is-the-internet-said-to-be-an-untrusted-network
<snap-l> PainBank: AIR is essentially DOA.
<snap-l> I wouldn't do any new development for AIR
<PainBank> I would agree with you snap-l although there is still a lot of momentum out there pushing it.  I wish it was DOA.
<snap-l> PainBank: In what circles? Even the Twitterverse abandoned it. ;)
<Milyardo> Dolphins aren't fish. Deceptive bastards.
<PainBank> in the Adobe developer circles.
<brousch> The only place I've seen it in the last year is a GUI app from a local company for Compass/SASS
<snap-l> PainBank: Ah, there's your problem
<PainBank> I know, I know.  I didn't hire the guy.
<PainBank> :)
<snap-l> PainBank: Once you get out of the dope smokers, you'll realize everyone doesn't do drugs. :)
<PainBank> ya, but dolphins kick ass!
<brousch> But do you mock him daily for his choice in development?
<PainBank> snap-l: haha ture
<PainBank> ture
<PainBank> ture
<PainBank> true
<PainBank> I can't type worth a damn today
<snap-l> PainBank: It's like ColdFusion
<PainBank> ugh.
<snap-l> I'm sure there's a bundle of them out there that still think it's a viable platform
<PainBank> every time I see that name I cringe and I've never used it
<snap-l> but at some point, you have to wonder why all of your meetings start with "how do we get more people here?"
<PainBank> haha
<PainBank> true
<Milyardo> The graphic developer that we worked with somehow convinced our website admin that we chuck out our Drupal website for wordpress for the sole reason that it works with his Adobe Apps for development
<Milyardo> I'm still baffled to this day how that happened
<snap-l> Milyardo: Have you worked with Drupal? I'm not so sure why you're baffled. ;)
<PainBank> jeez.. and you couldn't find a Drupal extension/plugin to do the interface to Adobe?
<PainBank> snap-l: nice
<Milyardo> No one but him had any complaints about working with Drupal
<PainBank> but he was the boss?
<Milyardo> No he contracted
<Milyardo> doesn't even actually work for us
<PainBank> even better
<snap-l> As someone who set up Drupal, I don't think it was a hard sell.
<Milyardo> Yeah I don't know, I mean Drupal isn't the most amazing framework, but replacing with Wordpress of all things dumbfounds me the most
<snap-l> Milyardo: Yeah, I hear you.
<snap-l> There's certain things Drupal does very well
<brousch> Wordpress is actually very capable these days
<snap-l> And that's why I use Wordpress. ;)
<brousch> I still get annoyed by it
<brousch> Mostly I get annoyed by the theming
<PainBank> what is so hard about paying someone to generate the theme you want?
<PainBank> it is easier than Drupal.
<PainBank> ;p
<brousch> Heh
<Milyardo> I never found Drupal diffcult, just unsophisticated
<Milyardo> Last month we had asked this same Designer to work with us on a J2EE/Spring/JPA/JSPX application, I haven't heard from him since
<Milyardo> And speaking of Spring, last week I had the misfortune of fixing a Dojo bug, Dojo is a unholy mess
<snap-l> Yeah, I think Dojo fell off the map hard
<snap-l> Synced my Pragprog book list to Dropbox, and noticed I had Mastering Dojo in there
<snap-l> I think I stopped thinking about Dojo the moment I bought the book.
<PainBank> perhaps I missed something, what is the linke between Spring and Dojo?  are you talking about Dojo.js?
<snap-l> yes
<Milyardo> The Spring framework uses Dojo for alot of widgets is genereates in Spring MVC
<PainBank> ah, gotcha now
<PainBank> where spring is the server backend... that generates the html/js sent to the client?
<PainBank> spring is part of the backend server I should say?
<PainBank> I have been looking at Dojo.js just from the client aspect and creating a GUI using it without caring about a connection to the server side.
<rick_h_> dojo ugh
<rick_h_> ok, so now I'm pissed. I preorder for my N7 the night it's announced, and gamestop is handing them out like candy
<rick_h_> except my local gamestop only has 1 and it's pre-ordered for someone else
<brousch> They are in stores?
<rick_h_> yea, evidently
<rick_h_> guess gamestop has had them in stores for a week and for some reason today they allowed to sell them
<rick_h_> but mainly only for people that did game stop pre-orders
<brousch> Game Stop? WTF?
<rick_h_> they didn't start taking pre-orders until July, so my June 27th pre-order from google has done me no good it appears...ok getting cranky
<brousch> I will go to game stop at unch and buy one
<rick_h_> I will drive to GR and steal it
<rick_h_> faster, it appears, than sitting weeks on a google pre-order list
<brousch> D00d, I could hit gamestop for Nexus 7 and then Pita House for some babaganoush
<brousch> Heh, WTF. there are 2 gamestops in Grandville. They are about 1/4 mile apart
<brousch> One in the mall, one outside of it
<brousch> Oooh, Staples might have it too
<brousch> I could hit 2 GameStops and a Staples at lunch and still have time for Pita House
<Milyardo> There used be 3 Gamestops within 500 feet of each other in Flint
<Milyardo> Now there's two
<Milyardo> and a Disc Replay
<jrwren> that doesn't look like downtown detroit, looks like midtown
<jrwren> adobe developer circles are the only group i've found that is more nuts and illogical than microsoft devs.
<jrwren> snap-l: go check out Inverse Phase - Pretty Eight Machine
<jrwren> read a description of hte album
<jrwren> its only $6.50 to buy from them.
<jrwren> http://inversephase.bandcamp.com/album/pretty-eight-machine
<waldo323_> anyone going to the pig and whiskey event in ferndale this weekend?
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> going to GR
<waldo323_> to get a tablet? :)
<jrwren> no
<waldo323_> for those who want further details: http://metrotimes.com/pigandwhiskey
<snap-l> jrwren: It's on my list.
<snap-l> waldo323_: Told JODee about Pig and Whiskey. I think it's going to be way hot. :)
<waldo323_> yeah high 80s tomorrow and 90s sunday, 30% chance of rain
<snap-l> rick_h_: Fuck GameStop
<waldo323_> yes
<snap-l> Wish I lived near Mike Gedeon's store
<snap-l> (in Ohio)
<snap-l> Cool guy that I know from video game conventions
<snap-l> http://www.videogameconnection.com/
<waldo323_> should we try to invite him to penguicon?
<snap-l> Mike Gedeon? He's no celebrity, just a nice dude who sells video games.
<waldo323_> maybe not as a goh but maybe a vendor or something?
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJhK_q3keCo
<waldo323_> and maybe he'd just like to come to hang out?
<snap-l> Damn, missed the CCAG Sow.
<snap-l> Black Friday in July?
<snap-l> (Meijer flyer)
<jrwren>  i think it is super slow time of year.
<jrwren> newegg has sent lots of emails lately too
<snap-l> Yeah, Newegg's mails are getting on my nerves.
<snap-l> I think I'm going to unsubscribe from them
<snap-l> most of the "deals" are on things I've never heard of before
<snap-l> I don't have if it's a 1TB SSD drive for $8, if it's by "screyo data" I'm not buying it.
<jrwren> i would.
<jrwren> i'm cheap.
 * snap-l makes a note to make a bogus drive to sell to jrwren for cheap
<brousch> rick_h_: You see this? http://blog.gittip.com/post/27072581481/i-believe-in-gittip
<rick_h_> brousch: yes
<brousch> Gutsy
<rick_h_> well maybe there's hope https://twitter.com/googlenexus/status/223843243576664064
<snap-l> Anyone run into automatic formatting with OpenPyXL and know how to turn that off?
<brousch> rick_h_: http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/wibj8/all_nexus_7_preorders_to_ship_within_3_business/
<gamerchick02> happy Friday.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-14
<snap-l> http://kobilacroix.bandcamp.com/track/we-are-the-vikings
<tony-smlr> The Sunday Morning Linux Review Podcast is live now at http://www.youtube.com/user/tbemus?v=6RKrvzWVT5E
<rick_h_> tony-smlr: awesome
<tony-smlr> thanks
<tony-smlr> rick_h_: are on listenin in?
<tony-smlr> we are also on #smlr
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> tony-smlr: y'know, I'd listen in more if you weren't so freakin' early. ;)
 * snap-l just removed evolution from his computer
<snap-l> I no longer believe in Evolution. ;)
<greg-g> heathen
<snap-l> Wel, I believe Evolution was making my machine slow, even when it wasn't running
<snap-l> stupid e-calendar-factory
<snap-l> which was more of an annoyance anyway.
<snap-l> JoDee is using the Squeezebox for the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe. :)
 * snap-l is grinning from ear to ear.
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> vimmers: how would I remove the text between quotes for a tag in XML
<snap-l> ie: title="blahblah" becomes title=""
<snap-l> I oly want to do this for each title in the file
<snap-l> and I just figured it out
<snap-l> %s/title=".*"/title=""/g
<rick_h_> snap-l: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Power_of_g
<tony-smlr> If your interested the MDLug meeting is starting and we are live web conference at bbb.mdlug.org
<snap-l> ugh
<snap-l> ready to take a nap
<snap-l> yard work it's to much fun
<rick_h_> heh yea keeping lazy today myself
<rick_h_> had to get all drugged for a migaine yesterday so no desire to beat the heat today
<greg-g> :( yeah, I had a small migrain last night, too bad I didn't know that the "Raging Bitch" IPA from , (uhhhh, dang, the gonzo artwork brewery), was a 8.2%er
<snap-l> lovely
<snap-l> got wow coming by in a hour
<snap-l> hopefully
<greg-g> wow?
<greg-g> ah, saw twitter (not identi.ca?)
<snap-l> Yeah, Wide Open West.
<brousch> snap-l: You have yard to work on? Mine is all dead
<snap-l> brousch: Well, I had to mow the weeds
<snap-l> They were getting uppity.
<rick_h_> I'm afraid to get my water bill this quarter
<brousch> My backyard is usually a jungle, now it's must dead too
<brousch> oooooohohoho http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/07/14/1332219/xbmc-ported-to-android
<rick_h_> yea, that seems like it might be cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-07-15
<snap-l> fizz buzz
<brousch> snap-l: I listened to the OMC interview with Eraless. I almost turned it off because it started so bad, but by the end I was laughing. It was awesome
<brousch> They were in awe of your celebrity
<snap-l> Yeah, I didn't quite understand that. :)
<snap-l> And it wasn't my celebrity, but Metal Injection
<snap-l> which I only just started being a part of
<snap-l> Was the interview bad?
<brousch> No, by the end it was awesome
<brousch> Seriously, I loved it
<snap-l> The beginning was just slow, though?
<brousch> The contrast of their redneck accents and humble personalities mixed with the heavy, growling music was awesome
<brousch> Well you could tell it was their first interview, so they were really bad at the start
<snap-l> Yeah, it was pretty rough trying to get them to say things. :)
<brousch> But once you got warmed up it was good
<brousch> About 2.3 of the way through was loling
<snap-l> cool. :)
<brousch> So I'd say that was good on your part to coax them out
<snap-l> Thank you.
<snap-l> I hope they make it big. They definitely have a good sound and the right atitude.
<brousch> I love the music. It boggles my mind that it's the same guys that you interviewed
<snap-l> ;)
<brousch> rick_h_: Nexus yet?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, tracking number but no update to it. UPS says it's still not around
<rick_h_> hopefully it'll be updated tomorrow and I'll know when it's scheduled to arrive
<brousch> Supposedly the stores are selling them now. You got hosed
<brousch> Staples, Office Depot, Gamestop
<rick_h_> yea, definitely hosed
<rick_h_> but oh well, it's too late to cancel the order
<rick_h_> and it'll be here this week
<rick_h_> should be either monday or tues
<brousch> Are you as giddy as a schoolgirl?
<rick_h_> heh, no, but looking forward to tinkering with it
<rick_h_> I'm trying hard to not pick up new todo's atm since I need to be working on my pyohio talk :/
<brousch> rick_h_: How's your talk coming? I have all of my info organized but no slides
<brousch> Also need to do a little more work on my knock knock app
<snap-l> Got a new keyboard. :)
<snap-l> Logitech wired keyboard.
<snap-l> SO now you all can stop calling me an Apple fanboy. :)
<snap-l> It also glows in the dark
<snap-l> woo woo
<brousch> Send me your old one
<brousch> $5
<snap-l> brousch: That might cover shipping. :)
<rick_h_> brousch: I've not been good on the talk so far. I'm behind.
<brousch> Naughty
<rick_h_> yea, bad techie
<brousch> My talk will be more awesome than yours and I will steal your crown
 * rick_h_ hangs his head in shame
<brousch> That was supposed to motivate you
<rick_h_> I'm hopeless :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: YOu'll do fine
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-08
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> We'll be starting the meeting in 6 minutes
<snap-l> Hello everyone
<snap-l> Let's get the meeting started.
<snap-l> Who all is on the line?
<snap-l> Right
<snap-l> OK
<snap-l> Well, I guess this will be more of an announce-only meeting then. :)
<snap-l> First up: Ohio Linuxfest is approaching
<snap-l> September 13th - 15th
<snap-l> unfortunately I won't be able to make it this year
<snap-l> but it would be nice to have a presence there if possible
<snap-l> last year we partnered with the Ohio loco to help staff the table
<snap-l> So there's that option
<snap-l> Bu if there's something else that someone would like to organize, that would be awesome.
<snap-l> Unfortunately that weekend is also overloaded, as that's the same weekend of the Global Jam for the S-Series
<snap-l> Which I'm thinking will once again be online, as it'll be even more interesting to try to get people together that weekend
<snap-l> But will also allow folks who are at OLF to participate if they'd like to
<snap-l> Perhaps we could hold some form of BOF online?
<snap-l> and in person?
<snap-l> Dunno, but there's about 2 months, so there's some time
<snap-l> Any questions?
<snap-l> Or anything else for that matter?
<waldo323> not from me, but i got in late
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> OK, well I'll post these ideas on the mailing list as well.
<snap-l> Unless there's anything else, we'll call it a meeting.
<snap-l> Thanks, everyone!
<waldo323> thank you
<snap-l> Mail sent
<snap-l> AFK.,
<brousch> damni
<rwcitek> There seems to be a fair amount of lag between what is posted here and when it appears in the logs:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/07/08/%23ubuntu-us-mi.txt
<waldo323> yeah i noticed that too
<rwcitek> Just for reference, it's currently 03:49 UTC and my previous post still is not in the logs.
<rwcitek> Now that it is 03:54 UTC, this is a 30+ minute lag.
<rick_h_> morning and owwwwwwwww
<snap-l> Post trip ouchies?
<rick_h_> I can feel the muscles in my fingers...ow
<snap-l> Good morning, btw.
<rick_h_> yea, morning...that's it
<snap-l> Heh
<rick_h_> no mug for me this month :(
<snap-l> :(
<snap-l> And we got a special guest speaker and everything
<rick_h_> yea
<brousch> Too busy soaking in your own sweat?
<snap-l> brb, reboot work machine
<rick_h_> pretty much. have a bunch of work to do at home, lawn/etc now that we're back and no way to take evening off
<brousch> Legit? http://paste.mitechie.com/show/981/
<snap-l> brousch:  Never heard of the magazine before
<snap-l> But if you feel like writing, go for it. :)
<snap-l> Just don't expect to get paid in a timely manner. :)
<snap-l> Looks like a German company
<snap-l> Or Polish
<snap-l> Not sure
<rick_h_> dinos for jcastro http://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/9237171571/in/photostream/
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/xB6P0Vm.png
<trevlar> yikes
<brousch> snap-l: I haven't heard of it either. The website seems legit
<jrwren> what is the difference between 'from x import y as z' and 'import x.y as z' ?
<rick_h_> jrwren: can't think of any.
<brousch> I've not seen the latter
<rick_h_> import simplejson as json
<rick_h_> just the nested format of that
<brousch> But I've not seen this nested format you speak of
<jrwren> brousch: really?  import lxml.etree as ET you haven't seen?
<rick_h_> it's not that often that people do the alias all together, so not surprised
<brousch> i have not seen that. When it's inside a module I've always seen from module import thing
<brousch> pep8 says it's OK though
<jrwren> its definitely OK
<jrwren> just wanted to make sure the two statements were equiv. I thought they were, but python has really been making me a fool lately.
<snap-l> jrwren: Join the club. :)
<greg-g_> ugh
<greg-g_> 7am came way too early
<jrwren> i agree
<rick_h_> +1
<rick_h_> though 6:30 here
<snap-l> /$TIME/MOnday/g
<rick_h_> hah
<greg-g_> snap-l: yeah, that too
<greg-g_> we didn't get home until 11:30 last night, hella traffic going back to SF
<greg-g_> but man, so worth it where we went, I want to move there
<snap-l> Michigan? :)
<rick_h_> lol
<greg-g_> snap-l: good try :P
<greg-g_> it's an area known as "The Ridge", it's on the San Juan Ridge, north of Lake Tahoe area, but not full of yuppies
<greg-g_> still semi affordable land that is both in the mountains and farmable
<rick_h_> I don't know if I should laugh cry or love it http://coffitivity.com/
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, I think that came up Wednesday or Friday of last week
<snap-l> "Get your offline Coffitivity fix - Signup to hear when we release our iOS/Mac apps!"
<greg-g_> I kind of liked it
<greg-g_> I didn't want to
<greg-g_> really oh so badly didn't want to
<rick_h_> greg-g_: yea, I mean at least it's interesting
<rick_h_> but I can't help but think "get your coffee shop social time without actually leaving your house!"
<rick_h_> not that sitting and ignoring everyone else at the coffee shop is 'social' time I guess
<greg-g_> right
<jrwren> greg-g: unpossible. there is no affordable nondesert land in CA
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> alyankovic: The L.A. Zoo is the rudest ever.  I waved to all the animals, and not a SINGLE one waved back.  #YelpReview
<jrwren> i think I really like the new askubuntu theme.
<jrwren> i did get a new theme, right?
<snap-l> I think it did. Something to match the Ubuntu One Login, perhaps?
<greg-g> jrwren: yeah, so, more of a response: yes, affordable is relative, so for CA it is affordable, for the rest of the country, not anywhere near
<greg-g> but man, so beautiful
<greg-g> jcastro: can you tell me why the laptop that Canonical jointly created with Dell (again) for the best developer laptop is *still* having kernel related issues? It feels like they don't think these things through. :(
<greg-g> actually, here
<jrwren> its dell.
<greg-g> jcastro: ignore me, I'm going to poke another one
<jrwren> wtf do you expect.
<greg-g> rick_h_: see above^
<greg-g> jrwren: I know. I'm so annoyed at work for choosing this. They bought into the marketing
<rick_h_> greg-g: heh, never get dell...my motto for 10 years :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, no idea on that stuff.
<greg-g> :)
<jcastro> what's the issue?
<jcastro> greg-g: ^^
<greg-g> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/954661
<jcastro> are you on precise or ... ?
<jcastro> greg-g: ^^
<greg-g> jcastro: raring
<jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1163720
<jcastro> ok so this is your bug then
<jcastro> see comment #23
<jcastro> see if that works
<greg-g> jcastro: I just wanted to rant man, not actually fix it!
<greg-g> :P
<jcastro> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=47941 seems to be the main bug
<greg-g> jcastro: I think that works for me (that comment)
<jcastro> The only working solution for me is "echo 0 > /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness" after boot or resume from suspend.
<jcastro> is what that guys says
<jcastro> rc.local that shit for now I guess
<greg-g> yeppers
<jcastro> but yeah, sucks man
<greg-g> sorry, didn't really mean to make you do work-type stuff here man
<greg-g> jcastro: thanks though
<jcastro> lol no worries
<jcastro> I AM HERE FOR YOU MAN
<jcastro> way more than rick anyway. :p
<greg-g> jcastro: HUGS!
<greg-g> I mean
<greg-g> MAN HUGS!
<greg-g> dude who just moved down from the 6th floor to the 3rd floor (where I work) has a model m. the only thing louder than my kinesis
<greg-g> (we only use 2 floors, but they aren't adjacent)
<snap-l> Seriously? That's some serious typing
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-09
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-W05lNjztM
<jrwren> TIL: /usr/bin/kvm is now a wrapper around qemu-system-something
<rick_h_> jcastro: used that 303 stuff on the interior during a huge clean out of the car. <3
<rick_h_> haven't tried it on the tires yet
<rick_h_> and kayak fishing looks like it's sweet!
<snap-l> Goodmorninig
<rick_h> morning
<snap-l> Reminder: MUG Meeting tonight
<snap-l> Hope to see you all there
<snap-l> unless you have a note from your doctor. ;)
 * rick_h goes to find the wife's notepad
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> bbiab
<brousch> I won't be there
<brousch> Android Xperience meeting, FriendlyCode meeting, and GRIN meting tonight
<rick_h> where's your dr note?
<brousch> I think there are some Phds at GRIN
<brousch> WTF no OMC this week?
<brousch> How am I supposed to survive?!
<snap-l> brousch: By helping me to survive. :)
<snap-l> Was tired last night.
<snap-l> Also, aren't you a few episodes behind? :)
<brousch> 1 episode
<snap-l> Also, Well, i might accidentally release an Instrumetalcast on Friday.
<snap-l> You never know. :)
<brousch> Actually I need to plug in podcasts into a Listen replacement soon
<brousch> I only have 4 podcasts left
<rick_h> ouch, tell us how you really feel? https://twitter.com/mitsuhiko/status/354588731338014720
<brousch> I have little hope for it
<snap-l> I don't quite understand the negativity for FF OS
<snap-l> If anything I think it has a better shot than Ubuntu Unity
<brousch> I have no negativity towards it. I just see it like WebOS. It's too late to the game
<brousch> Really, for the average consumer, what does it do better than Android?
<snap-l> Works on cheap feature phones?
<snap-l> It's not designed to replace Android afaict
<snap-l> Or if it is, it's designed for the lower-level market
<brousch> You can get free/cheap/used Androids
<snap-l> and you can buy a Windows phone. Point? :)
<snap-l> It's choice.
<snap-l> Also, the world is not limited to the United States cell-phone market. :)
<brousch> Android is world-wide
<brousch> I just don't see the point. I can't see anything it does better or cheaper than Android
<snap-l> It runs on some Alcatel phones
<brousch> So the market is web devs who want to make phone apps and people who hate both Google and Apple
<snap-l> so it gives Alcatel Lucent some relevance. ;)
<snap-l> I don't see the issue with them trying
<snap-l> Android was an upstart at one time
<snap-l> Apple changed the market
<snap-l> I see plenty of room on these streets
<snap-l> Honestly I'd be surprised to see a FF phone in the wild in the states.
<brousch> The USA is all that matters!
<snap-l> Southeast Michigan is all that matters. ;)
<brousch> bwahahahahahahah
<brousch> I can't find a way to purchase a Firefox phone
<snap-l> You'll have to wait. :)
<brousch> I need one in the next 2 months or I won't get one for 2 years
<brousch> It will have died by then
<Blazeix> i'd love it if firefox os takes off. it definitely seems to be targeting the more flip-phone/candybar level market, though.
<Blazeix> so it will be interesting to see how much app development activity there is
<snap-l> An attacker could trick Ruby into trusting a rogue server.
<snap-l> Isn't that called RVM?
<snap-l> http://macgateway.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Mac-Workspace-Grass.jpg
<snap-l> I'm not sure I understand this
<brousch> For a cat maybe?
<greg-g> "I'm a mac user, I'm all designy and out of the box thinking, I'll grow grass on my desk"
<brousch> If it was in SF it would be marijuana
<greg-g> indeed "just grow'n some grass, maaan"
<greg-g> but really, the stoner hippy stereotype of SF has been overwhelming trumped by the startup libertarian stereotype
<brousch> So portland is all the stoners now?
<snap-l> Portland is where the pot goes to pot.
 * greg-g moves to portland
<brousch> uh huh
 * rick_h jumps in the back of greg-g's car
<greg-g> rick_h: yes!
<snap-l> May the hippies take the lot o' ya.
<rick_h> I'm working on it.
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h> I've just got to get the wife ready for along distance camping trip
<rick_h> and not tell her it's one way until we get there :)
<greg-g> lol
<snap-l> rick_h: You really like living dangerously
<rick_h> yolo :P is that hippy speak? I've not completed my class
<greg-g> 'tis the only way to live
<snap-l> yolmott
<greg-g> definitely not hippy speak, more "rich kid driving daddy's beemer" speak
<snap-l> you only live most of the time
<rick_h> doh, I signed up for the wrong class!
<greg-g> all the sideways baseball caps didn't tip you off?
<rick_h> figured they were all on the west coast and the sun was coming over their shoulders
<greg-g> hah
<snap-l> lol
<jcastro> http://durham.io/2013/07/09/seth-vidal-creator-of-yum-open-source-software-killed-in-bike-accident-off-hillandale-rd/
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> this is shitty
<greg-g> ugh :(
<snap-l> jcastro: yeah, just saw that. :(
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> I met him once too
<jcastro> a long time ago
<jcastro> he's like our age man
<jcastro> so sad
<snap-l> Hug a developer
<snap-l> That's all you can do.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-10
<rick_h> http://about.travis-ci.org/blog/2013-07-09-introducing-continuous-deployment-to-heroku/
<rick_h> so there you go, one path to a CI/CD process
<snap-l> http://sfist.com/2013/07/09/is_this_the_most_san_francisco_phot.php
<brousch> rick_h: Do you have a roommate for PyOhio?
<rick_h> brousch: nope
<brousch> I have a room at the Blackwell and another GRPUG guy has one
<rick_h> brousch: I've got one as well.
<brousch> I wish we had a weirdo I could ask to bunk with you, but I'm probably the worst
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> been there/done that
<brousch> Untangle is working well so far. I installed it last night
<rick_h> untangle?
<brousch> Open source/commerical firewall
<brousch> Based on Debian it looks like
<brousch> It has the usual firewall stuff, plus virus blocker, spyware (tracking) blocker, adblocker, application blocker, snort, vpn, all with a pretty nice web GUI
<snap-l> Morning
<snap-l> Sorry I had to bail last night on MUG, but JoDee managed to burn herself pretty good with some boiling water
<snap-l> She's fine
<brousch> That's all free and open source, then have modules you can buy to enhance those, add caching, bandwith control, etc. they also have appliances you can buy with it all pre-installed
<brousch> ack!
<snap-l> but I went out to get some gauze and pads and such
<rick_h> snap-l: :/
<snap-l> Yeah, she was all "you don't need to come home" but when she was describing what happened, I couldn't leave her alone
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, burned my hand on the camper this past weekend 2nd degree and it sucks!
<snap-l> Yeah, imagine that on your chest. :)
<rick_h> snap-l: yea, take care of the fam
<brousch> Did you ban her from the kitchen?
<snap-l> Funny thing is she wasn't in the kitchen
<snap-l> She was trying to open up her sinuses, so she boiled some water in a mug
<snap-l> and she leaned back and lost her balance
<snap-l> Fortunately it was pretty localized
<snap-l> unfortunately, it was localized enough to cause second degree burns
<brousch> ouch
<brousch> Has anyone here tried DigitalOcean for VPS hosting?
<snap-l> First I'm hearing of them
<brousch> It sounds like a great deal ($5/mo, 20GB SSD storage, 512MB RAM, 1TB traffic)
<snap-l> Sounds like a reseller
<brousch> I hadn't heard of them either, but we moved the GR wiki to them from Linode last night
<snap-l> Linode too much?
<trevlar> I've fired up a few boxes with them just to test things out
<brousch> $5/mo vs $20/mo
<snap-l> yeah
<brousch> trevlar: Did you see any problems?
<trevlar> I'll probably be switching from linode to them too
<rick_h> they're getting a lot of love recently.
<trevlar> nah, I kind of like linode's dashboard better.. but it just takes a little getting used to
<rick_h> there was an article comparing perf recently though and linode won out
<snap-l> I've been happy with Linode. They've giiven me wht I want in a hosting service: not having to think aboutmy hosting service.
<brousch> I still have my own VPS on linode
<brousch> We also got CKAN set up for Grand Rapids. It's a Pylons site for data portals http://data.grcity.us/
<brousch> Dave did most of that since he's worked with PYlons a lot
<trevlar> brousch: one of the biggest complaints is they still don't have private IPs for multi-vm setups
<brousch> trevlar: private IPs don't bother me right now
<brousch> but good to know
<snap-l> jcastro: http://www.rushisaband.com/blog/2013/07/10/3706/New-Rush-audio-odditiesrarities-from-MitA
<rick_h> for greg-g https://twitter.com/phatduckk/status/354989654874931200
<greg-g> rick_h: where was that? SF?
<rick_h> greg-g: sanmateo it says
<rick_h> at least per hashtag
<greg-g> oh, heh, totally ignored the hashtag
<rick_h> so spitting distance of SF :)
<greg-g> yeah
<snap-l> That's some serious ego working there
<brousch> There's no Golden Gate Bridge in that photo
<snap-l> Woah, just ran across a neat tmux command
<snap-l> ctrl-b )
<snap-l> runs through all of your tmux sessions
<greg-g> oh netsplits :(
<greg-g> oh ddos's on freenode :(
<snap-l> Yeah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-11
<rick_h> here's her blog post on it http://www.kscottz.com/solving-autostereograms-aka-magic-eyes/
<mathomastech> http://www.hostgator.com/formmail.shtml
<greg-g> GAH stupid useragent matching
<rick_h> heh, UA lies!
<rick_h> it's beyond ridiculous any more
<greg-g> yes, I use iceweasel, no that doesn't mean you should give me a stupid error message
<rick_h> http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2013/03/27/internet-explorer-11s-user-agent-string-what-does-it-mean/ :)
<snap-l> Even better: use G+ with a privacy masking user agent
<snap-l> It'll complain mightily that you don't have a recent browser
<rick_h> gotta give it some +1 love http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1i2p69/shuttle_a_simple_ssh_shortcut_menu_for_os_x/
<brousch> Ah, Detroit http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/detroit/scrappers-to-blame-for-no-water-flowing-from-the-fountain-in-hart-plaza
<brousch> rick_h: But that's a GUI program
<rick_h> brousch: it's a local guy at CHC
<rick_h> and it's for the mac so wtf...
<trevlar> rick_h: :)
<brousch> ah, now I understand
<snap-l> And he's in the channel. :)
<snap-l> I'll leave it as an exercise to figure out who. :)
<brousch> snap-l: You've gone back to Apple?!
<snap-l> Uh, no.
<brousch> See what happens when you leave it as an exercise
<brousch> That's how rumors get started
<snap-l> jrwren_: God, this reorg of MS looks like deck-chair musical chairs.
<rick_h> ok, well didn't see that coming http://insights.ubuntu.com/news/press-releases/verizon-joins-ubuntu-carrier-advisory-group/
<brousch> Ting or DIAF
<mathomastech> rick_h: Very cool. Nice to see a local major play jump on board.
<snap-l> brousch: That's my line
<snap-l> Seriously, though, very cool to see Verizon pick this up
<snap-l> Hopefully others will follow
<snap-l> It turns it from "whatever" into "mildly interested"
<snap-l> http://www.startupvitamins.com/products/startup-poster-this-is-a-bullshit-free-zone-sell-sell
<snap-l> Apparently the motivational poster is alive and well
<greg-g> ugh, that site annoys me
<greg-g> the posters
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a little too much "damn the torpedoes"
<greg-g> yeah. I can only think of 5 hour energy drinks when I look at that site
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kuCI1dv20Y
<rick_h> trevlar: https://twitter.com/JamesJelinek/status/355364535198158848 :)
<trevlar> rick_h: thanks!
<trevlar> although I have a "if ( var == false )" that I swear I didn't see https://github.com/fitztrev/shuttle/blob/master/apple-scripts/iterm2.applescript
<trevlar> I don't know how that snuck in there
<trevlar> ;)
<trevlar> I do it better in the applescript for terminal.app https://github.com/fitztrev/shuttle/blob/master/apple-scripts/terminal.applescript
<snap-l> Defcon Staff: Hey, Feds ... you're not welcome at DEFCON this year.
<snap-l> Feds: Not a problem! We were planning on telecommuting anyway...
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1i2hto/for_first_time_ever_feds_asked_to_sit_out_defcon/cb0g0c3
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-12
<rick_h> oooh https://twitter.com/jessenoller/status/355453772803211264
<shakes808> Hello all
<shakes808> been looking for a way to reset my root password. I keep finding the same way that won't work for me. Go into recovery and passwd <name> and then set pass. When I get the root shell open it prompts me for the admin pass. That is what I am trying to change because I forgot it. :\ Anyone help please?
<jrwren_> we use ubuntu, we don't use a root password
<jrwren_> we use sudo
<jrwren_> can you sudo? do you know your own password?
<shakes808> that is what I am trying to get into :\ haha
<shakes808> I don't remember my own password to get into the machine
<shakes808> I am logged in as guest searching the internets
<shakes808> and keep finding the same thing over and over by different pepple
<shakes808> people
<jrwren_> can you boot single user?
<shakes808> ? what do you mean by single user?
<jrwren_> runlevel 1 ?
<shakes808> ....
<shakes808> I don't know what that is.
<jrwren_> should be as simple as adding "single" to the kernel command line
<shakes808> Guest doesn't have any permissions to use command line but to look around.
<jrwren_> kernel command line.
<jrwren_> so you would reboot and type it in the right place in grub
<jrwren_> grub does make it a little tricky
<shakes808> I will try that.I will be back in a little while :\ haha
<jrwren_> good luck
<shakes808> Thank you
<shakes808> http://www.tejasbarot.com/2012/09/16/howto-reset-break-root-and-other-users-password-in-ubuntu-12-04-linux-grub2-precise-pangolin/#axzz2YmyiUuVj
<shakes808> is what i found
<shakes808> too
<shakes808> jrwren_ didn't get to a kernel cmd line
<shakes808> :\
<shakes808> When I click on the shell prompt it asks me for a administrator password or hit Control-D to return the the menu options
<shakes808> Is there a way to get passed that
<shakes808> The instructions that I keep finding are like this: http://www.noobslab.com/2012/02/reset-your-forgotten-password-quickly.html
<shakes808> but in the second screenshot where it has root@ubuntu...  I get that different message
<jrwren_> shakes808: i'm unsure. single user always works for me.
<jrwren_> shakes808: short of that, boot a live CD, mount the filesystem and edit /etc/shadow
<jjesse> everyone watching sharknado tonight?
<jrwren_> no, just watching peopel tweet about it.
<jrwren_> i'm watching TED talks and reruns of The Newsroom
<rick_h> ok, I didn't look at this yesterday thinking 'big deal' but now that I watch it...freaking cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=syJq10EQkog
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> from the rv dealership wheeee
<snap-l> Woo wooo
<snap-l> That helicopter is pretty cool. :)
<rick_h> yea, you can tell they got a real biker for it. Crazy to think of the forces that he's swinging in those wings. And love that the quadcopter is the latest/greatest in designs like that
<snap-l> http://slashdot.org/topic/datacenter/hp-keeps-installing-secret-backdoors-in-enterprise-storage/ <- Why?
<snap-l> I swear, HP is working hard to become irrelevant
<jcastro> wow that is awesome
<jcastro> That's one way to market Ceph
<snap-l> jcastro: No kidding
<snap-l> Ifi this had a Thinkpad nub, I think this would be rick_h's new laptop:
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/07/review-acer-aspire-r7-tries-really-hard-to-address-needs-no-one-has/
<greg-g> snap-l: that keyboard sucks
<greg-g> WHY IS EVERYONE GOING TO STUPID MACBOOK AIR KEYBOARD DESIGN?!
<greg-g> "you know, fewer keys the better, and make this not responsive, that's good"
<jrwren> because its a nice KB
<greg-g> is not
<greg-g> :P
<brousch> jrwren++
<greg-g> OUT!
<greg-g> OUT YOU HEATHENS!
<brousch> They have the best touchpads too
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h> apple does have the best touchpads
<jrwren> omg, touchpad alone is enough reason to never buy a nonapple laptop.
<rick_h> stop using a touchpad and win!
<brousch> I prefer the nipple too
<jcastro> Out of all the stupid thing that laptop does
<jcastro> you point out the keyboard
<jcastro> nevermind the dumb rotating display
<snap-l> I think the display is pretty cool
<snap-l> It's better than some of the idiotic convertible systems I've seen out there
<greg-g> jcastro: that was just a given :P
<greg-g> jcastro: also, I'm just still burned from the Dell XPS (typing on it now)
<jcastro> fo sho
<snap-l> Ubuntu hard-codes the distribute version into virtualenv?
<snap-l> (maybe it's not Ubuntu-specific, but that's a bit strange to me)
<rick_h> why does that matter? Since no one would ever copy/move/shift a venv around?
<snap-l> It would matter if you were building new virtualenvs and wanted to use a later version of distribute without running an upgrade step
<snap-l> since the package ships with 0.6.24
<snap-l> and MySQL-Python 1.2.4 wants 0.6.28
<snap-l> or higher
<rick_h> snap-l: because the virtualenv version is tied to the pip version and might break if things change?
<brousch> I thought distribute installed into the virtualenv, so the virtualenv version determined the deistribute
<brousch> Maybe I'm thinking of pip
<rick_h> brousch: no, it's there. It's included in the virtualenv.py file
<snap-l> possibly. But you can do an easy_install -U distribute to upgrade it
<snap-l> But yeah, it ships with it's own version of distribute. I was just wondering if it's possible to upgrade it
<snap-l> I'm just getting a little tired of my machine being the special case because I stick with the default packages.
<snap-l> Some days it's not even worth trying to code out of the paper bag. ;)
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> "hmmm, this looks like a book reading day"
<snap-l> WEll, what should have been a pretty easy "adapt this code to do this" turned into a bit longer
<snap-l> especially when I adapted the code, and then pretty much used less than 10% of it
<snap-l> and that's being generous
<rick_h> O...M...G https://twitter.com/frailgesture/status/355797117681410048
<snap-l> ho le fuk
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> craig
<jcastro> "Hannemanâs ashes were present, displayed on top of a Marshall cabinet surrounded by his collection of guitars and amplifiers as well as an iron cross made out of flowers. During a video tribute to Hannemanâs life and music fans formed a circle pit while âRaining Bloodâ played, providing the most fitting tribute."
<jcastro> do this for me when I die
<jcastro> n0p_: ^^
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-13
<snap-l> jcastro: I'm not sure Slayer will still be around then
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-14
<smlr-hangout> SMLR is going Live Video: http://www.youtube.com/embed/mSf8vlzUzEo Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<tony-smlr> SMLR is also on #smlr
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> afternoon
<rick_h> niiiiice http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/2836412053
<brousch> Got the boy on a trailer bike today
<rick_h> brousch: oh yea? How did that go? What kind was it?
<brousch> rick_h: It's a schwinn hitchhiker
<brousch> Hard to get a secure fit on my seat pedestal
<brousch> Lots of duct tape
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-07
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> We'll be starting the meeting in 50 minutes
<gamerchick02> sweet
<gamerchick02> i'm actually here. it's amazing
<cmaloney> Hey everyone. :)
<cmaloney> Welcome back. Hope everyone had an awesome weekend
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/755/detail/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/v3U3Kp - Regular monthly Ubuntu US MI IRC meeting | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal
<cmaloney> There's the agenda for the meeting
<cmaloney> So we'll wait a few more minutes for folks to get settled in and we'll get started.
<gamerchick02> g'day
<waldo323_> Good evening
<cmaloney> Ok, first order of business is Ohio Linuxfest
<cmaloney> This is fast approaching.
<cmaloney> Like super-fast the way this summer has been going for us.
<cmaloney> So I'm not sure who all is planning on attending OLF (I'm looking to head out this year with J)
<cmaloney> Anyone else planning on going?
<waldo323_> not certain yet
<cmaloney> kk
<cmaloney> I'd like to try to coordinate with Ohio and pool our resources together
<cmaloney> Ohio being the Ohio Loco
<cmaloney> Does anyone know the status of the Ohio Loco ?
<waldo323_> Not I sorry
<cmaloney> No worries.
<cmaloney> I can send them a note and see what they're up to.
<cmaloney> Too bad it's not opposite something awesome like Origins. :)
<cmaloney> but oh well
<cmaloney> Anyone have anything else on OLF they'd like to talk about?
<waldo323_> not at this time
<cmaloney> Man, y'all are quiet tonight. :)
<gamerchick02> probably not, i think i have a ceremonial during it. when is it? (i'm horrible i know)
<gamerchick02> i'm also watching Endeavour.
<cmaloney> http://www.streetsmartnurse.com/olfdates.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/6A8MVe - image/jpeg
<gamerchick02> oh no my ceremonial is way before that
<gamerchick02> both of them
<gamerchick02> thanks
<cmaloney> Coolness
<gamerchick02> all you had was OLF?
<gamerchick02> hah, the summer is kinda slow.
<cmaloney> yeah, not much else going on at the moment
<cmaloney> other than they got the calendar ical feed working again. :)
<gamerchick02> nice
<cmaloney> Also today is the last day to get T-Shirts if you're going to PyOhio
<cmaloney> which you should be.
<cmaloney> because PyOhio is awesome
<gamerchick02> i don't know python...
<cmaloney> And this is why you should go to PyOhio
<gamerchick02> hah
<cmaloney> Anywho, that's all that I have at the moment
<cmaloney> so unless there's anything else please exit by the gift shop and have a great rest of the month.
<cmaloney> Oh, and we still have DVDs so if anyone wants them, please let me know
<gamerchick02> nice
<waldo323_> For pyohio is it possible to do just Saturday and would it be worth it?
<gamerchick02> i have a general question regarding installation. please, waldo323_ has the floor, so to speak. :)
<cmaloney> Possibly, but you'd be spending 5 hours on the road either way
<cmaloney> so it'll be a little much IMHO
<gamerchick02> i'd say.
<waldo323_> :) ok thanks
<gamerchick02> stupid question that i should know the answer to but don't: is it possible for me to have a persistent install on a thumb drive (16gb or so) and have it skip the choice of "install or try" so i can just like, boot to the desktop on the thumb drive? (I have a windows 8.1 install on my desktop)
<gamerchick02> i'd like to use this thumb drive with both my mac and my desktop.
<waldo323_> I haven't tried with the latest release but you could do this
<gamerchick02> :) yay!
<gamerchick02> glad to know it's possible
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yez_rC9E2mI
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Bq6r6Y - Macabre Demise - Walk This Death (Aerosmith Cover) - YouTube
<gamerchick02> would i grab an image and burn it to a DVD then install to the thumb drive?
<waldo323_>  I'd install to the thumb drive as if if was a USB HD and would remove any other hard drives during the install
<gamerchick02> ooo
<gamerchick02> i thought that's how it would work
<gamerchick02> cmaloney, what is the meaning of that video?
<gamerchick02> are you darning my windows install to heck?
<cmaloney> Happened to be something that was on my hard drive.
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> speaking of windows 8.1, it's not half bad... *ducks and covers*
<waldo323_> Yeah. Its pretty nice being able to have persistent storage, configs and applications
<waldo323_> It is better than vista ;)
<gamerchick02> yeah, i mean i'd like to muck with it but i need microsoft office (for compatibility reasons)
<gamerchick02> it is actually halfway decent
<gamerchick02> faster than 7 on my desktop
<gamerchick02> just as fast as ubuntu
<gamerchick02> too bad microsoft office, WoW and D3 don't run on it.
<gamerchick02> ok, almost bedtime (work, early, tired, etc). see everyone tomorrow. have a good night.
<waldo323_> You too
<cmaloney> bd
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> stupid tmux
<brousch> They took some major damage from last night's storm about 3 miles east of my house
<cmaloney> Ugh. Are you OK?
<jrwren> mornin
<brousch> Yeah, no problems here. They can't decide whether it was straight line winds or an EF1 tornado that hit a 2 or 3 mile long strip
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/?page=CiviCRM&q=civicrm/event/info&page_id=1425&id=30&reset=1
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/X555i0 - Michigan!/usr/group | mug.org â A Michigan-based Linux and UNIX Free and Open Source Community
<cmaloney> If you ever needed a reason to come out to MUG, this is a reason.
<jrwren> why not title of event in the html title?
<jrwren> so that we could see "The Go Programming Language"
<cmaloney> because we're using CiviCRM under Wordpress, and it doesn't know any better.
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/2014/07/july-8th-2014-mug-meeting/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/v71uCi - July 8th, 2014 MUG Meeting | Michigan!/usr/group
<jrwren> wait... wordpress would do it, but a bad WP plugin is clogging it up?  that is a shame.
<cmaloney> Well, it's how we're using the plugin
<greg-g> weee, and back online after the 4 day weekend (for me) to lots of IRC pings and tooonnns of email
<cmaloney> Heh
<mrgoodcat> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<greg-g> stupid europeans not getting July 4th off
<mrgoodcat> who wouldn't want to celebrate us?
<jrwren> i'm quoting greg-g on that.
<mrgoodcat> if nobody else at least England should
<jrwren> he thinks europeans are stupid.
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: to celebrate their loss?
<mrgoodcat> july 4th is their kid's birthday
<greg-g> jrwren: :P
<mrgoodcat> lol google maps hacking win https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kevin+P+is+the+Man/@38.897837,-77.0363511,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x88fb9dfa3893a83f:0xe0e1feddbe4084ef
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Ssr2Ty - Google Maps
<mrgoodcat> domains fully restored to no-ip apparently
<cmaloney> Yeah.
<greg-g> too bad I'm already gone :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: I'm sure you're not the only one.
<greg-g> yeah, really sucks, I wonder if they're exploring a lawsuit
<greg-g> harm to brand/image/reputation
<cmaloney> For their sake I hope they are.
<greg-g> but, I guess they *were* being used for malware, so...
<greg-g> but, as previously discussed, whether the action taken was justified or not...
<cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah. I'm not a fan of secret warrants carried out.
<cmaloney> But at least they got a warrant
<cmaloney> which is more than I can say for some departments.
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> NSA
<greg-g> *coughs* notaterrorist *coughs*
<cmaloney> Well, I am in #linuxjournal
<cmaloney> so I'm already boned
<greg-g> haha, right
<greg-g> subersive!
<greg-g> +v
<ColonelPanic001> Linux EXTREMIST
<cmaloney> http://lj.mybigcommerce.com/linux-journal-extremist-reader/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/zW2BY5 - Linux Journal Extremist Reader - Linux Journal Store
<cmaloney> Having one of those days where i wonder if I'm the only sane one in the conversation
<cmaloney> Getting flack from the recipient of an Excel file because the dates are formatted differently (yyyy-mm-dd instead of mm/dd/yyyy)
<cmaloney> save that they're dates. In Excel. Formatting should be irrelevant.
<brousch> You dare use non-USA date formatting?
<greg-g> cmaloney: you are a terrorist
<cmaloney> And I prefer the Metric system for certain things.
 * cmaloney better not fly anytime soon
<greg-g> I'll remind you that this channel is the Michigan, US-mutherfucking-A channel
<cmaloney> Oh, um... Budweiser Chevy Marlboro
<jrwren> cmaloney: you mean like its 29 degrees out?
<cmaloney> jrwren: I'll be farenheit til the day I die.
<cmaloney> I've tried to grok Celsius but 14C and 15C don't translate in my brain
<jrwren> F makes good sense for human usage.
<greg-g> only 29C? it was 106F where we were this past weekend :)
<jrwren> colder than 0 is too cold. hotter than 100 is too hot.
<jrwren> EAsY!
<jrwren> greg-g: yeah, I saw someone say 35 and I went O_O
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> FYI: the central valley (CA) is the devil's country
<cmaloney> He must have a vacation home there.
<cmaloney> lmorchard23: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/nyjBPx - Potato Salad by Zack Danger Brown â Kickstarter
<cmaloney> What the fuck?
<brousch> What is this idiocy?
<cmaloney> Apparently there is a potato salad that needs making
<cmaloney> I think it's a protest of the Kickstarter vetting relaxation
<greg-g> wow
<greg-g> so, has KS jumped the shark?
<jrwren> dunno that it can, users of it did a long time ago
<gamerchick02> guess who has two thumbs and a completely portable ubuntu stick?
<gamerchick02> guess who's mucking with it on her mac right now?
<rick_h__> gamerchick02: woot
<gamerchick02> i'm such a nerd
<gamerchick02> it still says windows on the bootloader but that doesn't matter
<gamerchick02> also i got a bunch of terminal garbage when i started it up on the mac. is that normal?
<jrwren> gamerchick02: how did you do it? link me to instructions. i NEED that!
<gamerchick02> jrwren, all you do is make a DVD of the ubuntu download, then install it (straight up install it) to a thumb drive
<gamerchick02> Oh, and install the bootloader TO THE THUMB DRIVE NOT THE HARD DRIVE.
<gamerchick02> it's pretty rad
<gamerchick02> now, when you boot into the ubuntu drive, you'll probably have a grub that's mucked up if you switch from computer to computer... like on my mac it says "ubuntu, ubuntu advanced, something else, and then Windows 8"
<gamerchick02> so yeah.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-08
<rick_h__> kind of cool https://plus.google.com/116120911388966791792/posts/YiyqTmjr4pG
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Jj35dX - The highlights from the fireworks show this weekend at Lost Lake Woods club.â¦
<rick_h__> first time doing fireworks shots and some of them came out awesome. Best viewed big and zoomed in on the explosions
<cmaloney> Very cool
<cmaloney> Also: Evening
<rick_h__> party
<rick_h__> and night
<cmaloney> g'night
<rick_h__> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> morn
<rick_h__> ugh, the email it burns! it burns!
<brousch> You're not supposed to let it get in your eyes!
<brousch> Now you need to flush your system with large quantities of alcohol
<rick_h__> hah, sounds like a plan
<jrwren> g morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> rick_h__: That's what threading is for.
<cmaloney> And CTRL-D in Mutt. ;)
<mrgoodcat> what's that? delete all?
<rick_h__> delete thread
<jrwren> and here I am thinking pthreads.
<mrgoodcat> i just use gmail. i know the privacy gods are going to torture me for eternnity in hell but I really don't care. it's so convenient
<smoser> jrwren, bah.
<smoser> i learn of your joining through reading mailing list
<smoser> congrats and welcome to canonical
<greg-g> WHAT?!
<greg-g> and *I* learn through IRC?!
<greg-g> SECOND HAND?!
<mrgoodcat> how could it possibly be that everybody finds out after me?
<jrwren> smoser: you might also learn when you get a hiring bonus :p
<mrgoodcat> i don't even know jrwren
<jrwren> smoser: since you were the first person to ask me, I listed you.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: You need to come to MUG more often
<smoser> sweet!
<greg-g> jrwren: congrats, what's the position?
<jrwren> greg-g: juju stuff.
<mrgoodcat> smoser: did you go to Lahser?
<mrgoodcat> for high school
<greg-g> jrwren: not rick's team though?
<jrwren> greg-g: not exactly. rick's team is spawning a new one, so working very close with rick_h__
<greg-g> interesting
<greg-g> smoser: are you juju now too? I forget what you're working on. The only keyword in my head still is "server" :)
<mrgoodcat> rick_h__'s team was getting really big from what i understand
<greg-g> I get to get my own team soon, officially. Right now I'm not anyone's official manager, even though I manage them.
<jrwren> greg-g: make them call you mr. manager
<jrwren> greg-g: or big boss man
<greg-g> My boss/manager has ~23 direct reports, I'll be taking 7 of them
<mrgoodcat> smoser: your nick is reminding me of someone that i once knew, but I can't remember where from... The name Sara Moser is just stuck in my head every time I see your nick
<smoser> no one i know by that name.
<smoser> greg-g, no. i'm "Ubuntu Server and Openstack"
<greg-g> smoser: cool, we use your work then :)
<smoser> woot.
<greg-g> maybe, unless we do too much roll-your-own
<greg-g> we're OpenStack on Ubuntu, either way
<greg-g> (for our "Labs" infrastructure, not our production servers, mind)
<greg-g> smoser: see the right coloumn, the Labs one: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/iss1y6 - Wikitech
<mrgoodcat> smoser: worth a shot
<cmaloney> btw: new Open Metalcast is up. :)
<greg-g> I still need to listen to the last instrumental cast
<cmaloney> No worries. It's not like they're going anywhere. :)
<mrgoodcat> unless Microsoft seizes your domain
<greg-g> luckily he hosts his shows on archive.org :)
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> That's part of the reason I host there. a) It's free, and b) It'll likely outlive me
<brousch> mrgoodcat: Did you watch Dexter? Moser was Dexter's original last name
<mrgoodcat> no. actually i found the sara moser I know on facebook. She did go to high school with me
<mrgoodcat> I just thought you should all know that this amazing thing exists https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad?ref=discovery
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/dQz7J6 - Potato Salad by Zack Danger Brown â Kickstarter
<greg-g> jumped the shark
<brousch> I don't understand that at all
<brousch> Why are people giving him money? They don't even get the potato salad
<mrgoodcat> yes they do. for 3$ you get a bite
<brousch> I assume you have to get yourself to the kitchen
<mrgoodcat> he didn't specify. also, he's throwing a pizza party in columbus ohio
<greg-g> it's fucking dumb and it's mocking (appropriately, it seems) the relaxation of Kickstarter's review process
<greg-g> iow: Kickstarter doesnt' care about the shit on their site, as long as they get their fee+cut
<brousch> Should they care?
<brousch> As long as it's not illegal
<rick_h__> it's something that the more fluff, false promises, etc they make the more likely the site goes down in flames over time
<greg-g> brousch: define illegal. raising money is a highly regulated thing
<greg-g> eg: there's a reason it's not an investing (ie: own a share of) a company
<greg-g> ...site.
<cmaloney> http://spiralmountain.bandcamp.com/album/sycophant-exile-welcome-home?from=fanpub_fb
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/oUy1bU - Sycophant / Exile, Welcome Home | Spiralmountain
<mrgoodcat> samsung factory robbed at gunpoint for $35M in product
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Hateful by Muldjord on The Color of My Soul
<mrgoodcat> in brazil
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: WOw
<mrgoodcat> http://9to5google.com/2014/07/07/samsung-factory-robbed-at-gunpoint-36-million-in-smartphones-tablets-and-laptops-stolen/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/51EFn5 - Samsung factory robbed at gunpoint, $36 million in smartphones, tablets and laptops stolen | 9to5Google
<cmaloney> Good to hear nobody was hurt
<mrgoodcat> > steal phone
<mrgoodcat> > sell phone
<mrgoodcat> > kickstart potato salad with the proceeds
<cmaloney> I'll be very surprised if those phones aren't somehow traced back to the perpetrators
<mrgoodcat> that's what i was thinking
<cmaloney> I'm amazed at what talented folks can produce by themselves.
<cmaloney> was re: Muldjord
<mrgoodcat> anybody play with xiki yet?
<greg-g> lmorchard23: hey, what do you all use for video conferencing at Mozilla?
<greg-g> lmorchard23: google is, apparently, not even pretending to care about anything other than Chrome for Hangouts, and we (WMF) use hangouts (too much). I'm looking for an alternative for my team
<lmorchard23> We've been using Vidyo for the past couple of years.
<lmorchard23> But that's like an on-site installed server & such, if I recall
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> and still proprietary
<lmorchard23> Yeah, I think Hangouts are based on Vidyo somehow, but my memory's fuzzy on that
<lmorchard23> I'm also hoping we manage to do something with webrtc
<greg-g> that's what the WP article tells me
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> you'd think you all would :P
<greg-g> we (WMF) might be willing to throw some time/effort/maybe even money at a solution if it's FLOSS
<lmorchard23> Problem is we have lots of meetings with 5-20 attendees, and that gets hairy fast
<greg-g> yeah
<greg-g> the P2P webrtc just doesn't work (TM)
<lmorchard23> person-to-person is one thing :)
<greg-g> needs to have a beefy central server to handle the bandwidth issues
<lmorchard23> Yeah, and vidyo almost just barely doesn't manage that
<greg-g> we tried one of the P2P webrtc solutions and as soon as a person on a really slow connection joined it went to shit
<lmorchard23> Oof
<cmaloney> ugh
<greg-g> you have to push your audio/video to each participant, cuz, you know
<greg-g> :(
<lmorchard23> All-the-peers-to-all-the-peers
<lmorchard23> What could go wrong?
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> multicast!
<rick_h__> fire them!
<rick_h__> no slow connections allwoed
<greg-g> rick_h__: community!
<cmaloney> CHecking out some Rogers Gourmet Coffee and Tea K-cups.
<cmaloney> $1.99 for a 3 cup sampler.
<cmaloney> greg-g: Any experience with them?
 * rick_h__ sends a mocha pot to cmaloney 
<rick_h__> moka pot that is
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Yeah, I need to clean out my Melita
<greg-g> cmaloney: nope
<cmaloney> greg-g: No worries.
<cmaloney> Saw some near our Keurig machine and didn't get the nerve up to try them.
<cmaloney> but the design looked interesting
<brousch> I got a french press at home. I'm surprised how much better the coffee is from it compared to drip or immersion
<cmaloney> brousch: Oh I totally know that the Keurig is the "wrong way" to get coffee
<brousch> It takes 8 minutes to heat the water and make the coffee though
<brousch> Keurig is what? 2 minutes?
<cmaloney> Depends on if it's primed yet or not
<cmaloney> Can be as long as 5 mintues or as short as 30 seconds.
<waldo323> brousch: regarding pyohio, I'm looking to get a room at the varsity or spring hill, do you have a recommendation for which to choose?
<cmaloney> rick_h__: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Z4ZzlmxIyd0/U7xWUBhwuEI/AAAAAAAAHXo/jLf_dJ_kQZw/w705-h763-no/portland-weird-nude-cyclist.jpg
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/hbXbYO - image/jpeg
<waldo323> That doesn't sound safe for work
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: is hangouts buggy on firefox?
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: yes
<mrgoodcat> didn't know that
<greg-g> go to http://www.google.com/hangouts/ click on computer
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/80bru - Google+ Hangouts Ã¢ÂÂ Google Hangouts
<mrgoodcat> i use chrome so i'm not usually aware of these things
<greg-g> Hangouts won't work in your current browser
<greg-g> You'll need to download Chrome before installing Hangouts here.
<mrgoodcat> oh really?
<mrgoodcat> well at least they're honest about it
<greg-g> yet another reason to be annoyed with Google
<greg-g> way to 'get' open source, fuckers
<mrgoodcat> idk. you'd have to install some program or other to get a competing solution as well
<mrgoodcat> just because their program is also a web browser doesn't make it bad
<mrgoodcat> what bout chromium?
<greg-g> what about it
<mrgoodcat> just wondering if it requires chrome or if chromium works as well
<akelling> kind of lame it does not work with firefox....
<mrgoodcat> since some people don't like the proprietary aspects of chrome
<akelling> I take it the android/iPad apps work fine
<greg-g> it works with Firefox, I just got off a call
<greg-g> but, they are basically saying "we no longer want to support Firefox"
<mrgoodcat> oh
<mrgoodcat> i thought you were saying it doesn't work at all
<greg-g> and, just like Gerrit, they dont' care about anything other than their own tools
<greg-g> which is fine, it'll just make us move away from Gerrit (already in progress) and hangouts (beginning)
<akelling> Hangouts won't work in your current browser
<akelling> You'll need to download Chrome before installing Hangouts here.
<akelling> Do you want to download Chrome now?
<akelling> what I am getting on my Mac with firefox
<greg-g> it works, just got off a call with Iceweasel :)
<mrgoodcat> so did you just use the video call button in g+ or something?
<greg-g> if you click on a url to a hangout you're invited to, it works
<mrgoodcat> ah
<mrgoodcat> i'm sure cisco would be very happy to sell you a ridculously overpriced "solution"
<mrgoodcat> although WMF would have to switch to cisco, not just your team
<greg-g> we won't
<greg-g> we'll be investing time into something else
<mrgoodcat> let us know if you find anything that works for more than 10 people in a call
 * greg-g nods
<akelling> Will the mug meeting be streaming a hangout tonight?
<mrgoodcat> i think they always do
<mrgoodcat> and they put them here https://plus.google.com/+MugOrgPage/videos
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Rva4VE - Michigan!/Usr/Group - Videos - Google+
<akelling> Yea knew they where on Youtube never thought to look at the plus page under videos too
<akelling> I will do that tonight instead of driving up there this time. bbl need to run to the store for dinner
<mrgoodcat> new haskell homepage http://new-www.haskell.org/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Qz8Hau - Haskell Language
<waldo323> Looks like we won't have a Google hangout for mug this month but we will get the video on YouTube afterwards
<akelling> Okay I will just have to catch it later then
<jrwren> gamerchick02: i installed ubuntu on my mac!
<jrwren> not even usb stick.
<jrwren> I have to admit, I really really like it.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-09
<gamerchick02> oooo jrwren, how's it running?
<gamerchick02> it was a hair slow off the stick
<jrwren> insanely nice.
<jrwren> 6s boot to login prompt
<gamerchick02> whoa
<gamerchick02> how's the battery?
<gamerchick02> i'm getting over 4 hrs with OSX but it's down to about 3 with ubuntu
<jrwren> and this past hour has been more time than I've spent with unity, every. its really nice.
<gamerchick02> but that might be something to do with the USB stick
<jrwren> says 5hrs.
<gamerchick02> nice
<jrwren> i don't know when unity added the help when you hold super down for a long time, but that is just excellent.
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> now the question... what if you want to go back to OSX?
<gamerchick02> unless you dual booted
<jrwren> i dual booted.
<gamerchick02> i only have a 128 gb SSD so it's not really possible. if i'd gotten a larger drive i might dual boot
<jrwren> and installed refit too.
<gamerchick02> nice
<jrwren> yeah, I have 512
<gamerchick02> yeah. way better
<gamerchick02> maybe when my mac goes off update support i'll ubuntu it up
<jrwren> i bought the highest macbookair I could get, because the only thing I didn't want, was online store only.
<gamerchick02> dang
<jrwren> hey, its for work.
<jrwren> a worker should use the best tools money can buy :)
<gamerchick02> i got what i thought was a good deal in Portland: 128 gb, 4 gb RAM, 11" screen, case, for a hair over $1200
<gamerchick02> offing case was like $50. just for a soft zip case. oh well
<gamerchick02> *effing. i can't even fake curse properly
<jrwren> sounds like a normal price for that now.
<jrwren> yeah, cases are expensive.
<jrwren> i stole my wife's old spire bag years ago.
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> well i figure if i have a form fitting case i can put it in whatever bag i want
<jrwren> she used to carry a tiny toshiba portige in it
<jrwren> yup, truth.
<gamerchick02> and i'm being bad and not going to mug tonight
<gamerchick02> i should
<jrwren> ah, me too.
<jrwren> i should have gone.
<jrwren> so THAT is where the chatters are :)
<jrwren> i need to learn lots about go-lang
<gamerchick02> LOL
<gamerchick02> go-lang?
<jrwren> that is the mug topic for tonight
<gamerchick02> http://ukutabs.com/t/the-white-stripes/hotel-yorba/ i wanna learn that really well. i should listen to the song more so i can figure out the stemming pattern
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ojSYS5 - "Hotel Yorba" by The White Stripes Ukulele Tabs on UkuTabs
<jrwren> great song.
<gamerchick02> i know!
<jrwren> ever drive by there?
<gamerchick02> no i've not
<gamerchick02> and C-D-G so it's not too hard!
<jrwren> head south in i75 out of detroit. it isn't very far down the road
<gamerchick02> cool
<gamerchick02> i should.
<jrwren> i've never been in there. I kinda wanna check out the lobby while listening to the song :)
<gamerchick02> that'd be way cool
<gamerchick02> i'm happy that your install went well
<gamerchick02> i forgot that i had a 16 gb thumb drive so i'll redo the ubuntu install to it so i have more room
<gamerchick02> gonna lay on the couch. feeling icky. hope more people are in chat tomorrow! well, maybe not, since it's coffeehouse coders.
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: glad i'm not the only person who likes unity
<jrwren> i like it a lot, I only wish there was a way to shrink the chrome.
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, you should have come to MUG. :)
<waldo323> GO language video will be available soon though for those that missed it
<jrwren> i'm going to watch teh video
<jrwren> i was honestly distracted with work up through when mug started :)
<rick_h__> morning
<jrwren> morning
<mrgoodcat> i want to see that one too
<mrgoodcat> i think i'm going to go back and watch some of those videos on the MUG g+ today
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> So far
<waf> i've already lived through it, i can assure you it will be a good morning.
<jrwren> waf: lol!
<jrwren> waf: how's winter?
<waf> it's a balmy 84 degrees! quite nice
<rick_h__> waf: woot! how goes?
<waf> pretty good. arrived in Thailand this past saturday, so this week is full of apartment hunting
<jrwren> i just realized all the world cup games have been played in winter.
<waf> i should be able to move in to an apartment sometimes next week.
<jrwren> oh Thailand. it isn't winter there.
<jrwren> my brain is broken. I was thinking you were in AU.
<waf> ah, yeah, that was a potential plan if the political instability in Thailand was an issue
<waf> but things are fine here
<brousch> Why would you move to Thailand?
<jrwren> for work.
<jrwren> plus, its awesome.
<waf> yeah, jrwren summed it up. i had an internship i really liked, and my boss during that internship asked if i wanted to join him at his company in thailand.
<brousch> What is awesome about it?
<brousch> I honestly know nothing about Thailand
<waf> the weather is awesome (tad on the hot side, but there's zero snow), the people are super friendly, stunning beaches.
<waf> everything is very inexpensive, which is great if you're on a western salary
<waf> and bangkok is a modern city with all the niceties you'd expect.
<brousch> Do most people speak English?
<waf> in bangkok most people speak some english (at a first-grade level or so). all the street signs and such have english
<waf> though i'm learning thai, because it's more fun that way
<brousch> That's not bad
<waf> nope
<brousch> It sounds like a great life opportunity. I'm jealous
<jrwren> brousch: massage parlors
<waf> yeah, i may be insane for doing this, but it's not really a thing i'd want to pass up
<jrwren> massage parlors are awesome about it :p
<waf> seriously. there are parlors every 100 feet or so. not sure how many of them are legit
<rick_h__> 10
<rick_h__> my uncle-in-law was camping with us over the 4th. He was in thailand during the unrest. He says it was actually a good thing. Nice curfew for the students, guess he thinks it'll be good for the country as a whole, etc.
<rick_h__> he's been going there for education related stuff for some 30 years
<jrwren> waf: remember advise of Jimmy Dugan
<brousch> waf: Definitely not insane
<waf> rick_h__: nice, does he teach english? seems like that's what 90% of foreigners here do.
<rick_h__> waf: I didn't get that. He is in a MN college and seems to go over there 3 or 4 times a year.
<rick_h__> guess he's been doing it for a long long time
<brousch> Does he teach English in the massage parlors?
<rick_h__> I'll ask him next time I see him I guess
<rick_h__> :)
<brousch> That could get uncomfortable
<jrwren> lol
<mrgoodcat> gah
<mrgoodcat> i keep trying to use my i3 shortcuts in unity
<cmaloney> There's a special ring of hell for fucking smart quotes.
<cmaloney> also: I hereby dub smart-quotes with a new name: fuckquotes.
<brousch> shitquotes
<mrgoodcat> not even sure what you're talking about
<cmaloney> Even better: I'm trying to find these fuckers in a .csv file in a field where a customer wrote a tome of hate.
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Oh, you will... .You will...
<mrgoodcat> lol
<jrwren> smartquotes are like m4 `quotes', right?
<mrgoodcat> oh are you talking about quotes where it's not just a regular quote character?
<mrgoodcat> but the curly one
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: yes
<mrgoodcat> yea those suck
<mrgoodcat> find and replace all
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I'd rather use asciidammit
<cmaloney> but NOOOOOOo
<cmaloney> Also: it's in unicode-16
<cmaloney> so that brings its own hell along with it
<cmaloney> such as: The version of CentOS is archaic enough to have vim 7.0 which knows not of Unicode-16
<cmaloney> I really fucking hate CentOS.
<cmaloney> (as a developer. As a sysadmin I liked it)
<brousch> CentOS, or Red Hat?
<cmaloney> CentOS
<brousch> So Red Hat is OK?
<cmaloney> brousch: I have no direct experience
<krondor> CentOS is redhat now, or at least that's how I saw it
<waldo323> I was happy when I heard that even though we don't use it much
<cmaloney> grrr... Hate it when a long-running process craps out because I have a typo
<krondor> waldo323: yeah it just means better support.  We have a lot of centos and redhat, but most of my systems aren't.
<rick_h__> it's a path for RH to keep a RH that's disinct from the paid for supported RH
<rick_h__> IMO :)
<krondor> it looks to me like redhat == debian, centos == debian unstable, fedora == ubuntu more or less
<krondor> also centos gives redhat a starting point to upsell support, where they would have missed out in the past
<rick_h__> well they figured out fedora wasn't the onramp to RHE but centos was
<krondor> wow when did 6TB HDDs come out?
<waldo323> When I wasn't looking
<krondor> and I felt like HDD increases were slowing with SSD acceptance guess not
<jrwren> a while, ago, IIRC they are enterprise class only
<jrwren> and very $$$
<mrgoodcat> super big hard drives are a bad idea anyways...
<jrwren> why?
<mrgoodcat> i'd rather RAID together a few smaller ones in raid 6
<jrwren> i'd rather raid 6- 6TB in RAID6
<mrgoodcat> it has to do with the URE rate when rebuilding arrays after a drive failure
<mrgoodcat> with a URE of 10^-14 you can expect a URE every 12.5TB or so
<mrgoodcat> If you had a 8 drive array with 2 TB drives with one failure your chance of having a unrecoverable read error would be near 100%. That second unreadable block during a RAID5 recovery is enough to destroy the RAID group and wipe out all the data on it. Not good!
<mrgoodcat> with 6 TB drives its even worse
<mrgoodcat> granted, enterprise class drives have much lower URE rates and RAID 6 can mitigate the issue, but it's still an issue
<mrgoodcat> one to be aware of anyways
<jrwren> nonsense.
<jrwren> given that argument we should always prefer the smallest drives.
<jrwren> we don't.
<jrwren> we weigh pros and cons and make a choice.
<mrgoodcat> this is an old article but it summarizes the issue nicely http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/why-raid-5-stops-working-in-2009/162
<krondor> jrwren:  not the consumer ones are out I mean.  $299 from seagate
<krondor> s/not/no/
<krondor> mrgoodcat, nice points re: rebuilds still it's a risk/performance/cost calculation
<krondor> personally I'd like to devote less power and space to spinning disks if I can so >disks are a good thing re: raid6 or 10
<jrwren> yeah, blah to all that.
<rick_h__> lol
<jrwren> give me my storage :)
<krondor> haha give me stable btrfs raid6 too :)
<mrgoodcat> RAID 5 is dead and RAID 6 is on the way out
<mrgoodcat> wont be long until replication is the only way to go
<jrwren> whatever that means.
<jrwren> ceph disks FTW!
<krondor> raid 0 only and n+1 systems, don't rebuild just reload
<jrwren> SeagateÂ® Kinetic Open Storage !!!!
<mrgoodcat> what krondor said
<mrgoodcat> Google already does that
<jrwren> i'd wager google doesn't use anything like RAID
<jrwren> no raid0, no raid1
<mrgoodcat> nope
<mrgoodcat> they use Google File System
<jrwren> no, they don't use that anymore either.
<jrwren> that is obsolete
<krondor> ramfs all the things
<mrgoodcat> which replicates everything 3 times. they don't try to rebuild arrays, they just toss the whole thing and reload the data
<jrwren> see the Spanner paper.
<jrwren> sure, cept those systems aren't filesystems which run on block store.
<jrwren> they are database systems which run on disks with ufs-style filesystems
<jrwren> so... XFS and ext[234]
<mrgoodcat> sorry, colossus or whatever they're calling it these days
<jrwren> colossus is different still.
<jrwren> they do LOTS of things
<jrwren> becuase there is no silver bullet
<jrwren> use what is optimal given your workload
<krondor> so at my house where n+1 systems and raid 0 aren't practical, raid 6 + big disks seems good :)
<jrwren> i just want lots of storage for lots of media :)
<mrgoodcat> so you may as well just raid0 and be done with it
<jrwren> i do.
<jrwren> home is different than work
<jrwren> and varying workload need varying storage solutions
<cmaloney> I'd love to know why I had Blind Melon's No Rain in my music library
<cmaloney> it was part of a compilation so I know where it came from
<cmaloney> I'm just not sure why I left it on the drive
<cmaloney> since that song sends me into a rage unlike most songs
<cmaloney> also: I married well when my wife starts quoting primus songs to me. :)
<mrgoodcat> lol why hate blind melon?
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I fucking hate that song
<cmaloney> a) overplayed
<cmaloney> b) a reminder of the whiny grunge period that I can't fucking stand
<mrgoodcat> just that one song? or blind melon in general?
<mrgoodcat> also, never really thought of blind melon as very "grunge"
<cmaloney> I haven't heard anything else by that band and I don't care to
<brousch> Blind Melon r0x
<cmaloney> They're in the same category for me as Hootie and the Blowfish
<brousch> Hootie r0x
<cmaloney> ops pls
<cmaloney>  /permaban brousch
<cmaloney> I have never heard a more bland album in my life than Hootie and the Blowfish's album
<cmaloney> Sounds like cows grazing in a field
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<cmaloney> Ah, apparently we lost our bot.
<mrgoodcat> D:
<cmaloney> Well now I have no way to let you all know I'm listening to Jane's Addiction
<cmaloney> oh, wait.
<mrgoodcat> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Disconnect by Rollins Band on Weight
<mrgoodcat> i got you
<mrgoodcat> and you lied to us
<cmaloney> It just changed.
<cmaloney> http://www.last.fm/user/squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/D6yTS6 - squeekyhohoâs Music Profile â Users at Last.fm
<mrgoodcat> i believe you
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's last track - Take As Normal by The Invincible Spirit on Anthology 1984-2004 [8 Jul 2014, 21:12]
<jrwren> well THAT is false
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Black Flowers by Fishbone on Give A Monkey A Brain And He'll Swear He's The Center Of The Universe
<jrwren> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Social Distortion (Reclubbed Mix) by Rotersand
 * cmaloney just found the album he's going to finish listening to
 * cmaloney wants to see the Fishbone documentary
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChXk4R0mGNw
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/4EPr1e - "EVERYDAY SUNSHINE: THE STORY OF FISHBONE" - documentary trailer - YouTube
<krondor> so cmaloney has listened to an entire hootie album but not blind melon?  priorities man
<mrgoodcat> i like to blow my friends minds when i tell them Darius Rucker is the guy from Hootie and the Blowfish
<cmaloney> krondor: Happened upon a copy of Cracked Rear Window and gave it a quick listen
<cmaloney> and wondered why the hell I was doing this to myself.
 * krondor needs to remember to leave Blind Melon - Blind Melon nonchalantly at CHC some day
<cmaloney> krondor: Not if you want to live.
<krondor> allmusic gives it a 4/5 and users 4.5/5 ratings, but unfortunately they also give cracked rear window a 4.5/5 and users give it a 4/5
<krondor> so I wouldn't call it a good source ...
<mrgoodcat> krondor: do i know you irl?
<mrgoodcat> having trouble matching faces to fake names
<rick_h__> mrgoodcat: he's been to CHC, and coming tonight right krondor?
<mrgoodcat> krondor: were you the one there last week?
<krondor> rick_h__ I think so, the boys are at a fair so if they don't make it back in time I might not be able to though
<rick_h__> krondor: ah ok
<rick_h__> krondor: give me a heads up one way or the other so I know if I should wait
<krondor> mrgoodcat:  not last week, but I think I met you a month ago or so, we exchange IRC handles at any rate
<krondor> exchanged that is, I hate laptop keyboards or at least this one
<mrgoodcat> probably
<mrgoodcat> i'm terrible at these things
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-10
<rick_h__> no one at CHC?
 * widox just got home
<widox> is it just you, rick_h__ ?
<rick_h__> widox: well cmaloney just showed up
<rick_h__> so now it's a party
<widox> fun
<jrwren> party!
<jrwren> wow, late edition
<rick_h__> heh yea
<cmaloney> Woo part part
<cmaloney> parry parry
<skellat> cmaloney: Ping
<cmaloney> skellat: pong
<skellat> How goes it?
<cmaloney> Good, though I'm getting ready to go AFK for a bit.
<cmaloney> bbiab. :)
<skellat> No problem
<cmaloney> back
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> party pary?
<cmaloney> Thankfully they ripped a hole in the wall for the area they're doing construction so we can hear it more clearly
<cmaloney> Sounds like the stomach of a giant robot
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Adora Vivos by Woods of Ypres on Woods 5: Grey Skies & Electric Light
<brousch> I'm supposed to take my son and myself for haircuts tonight while my wife is out. I sent her this http://imgur.com/wvVEROB
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/V4jKv3 - imgur: the simple image sharer
<mrgoodcat> anybody have an aeropress and/or french press?
<brousch> I have a french press
<brousch> I just got it 10 days ago
<mrgoodcat> ever used an aeropress?
<mrgoodcat> i'm trying to decide which to get
<brousch> I have not
<mrgoodcat> oh well
<mrgoodcat> will probably just go with a french press
<trevlar> mrgoodcat: I have an aeropress
<trevlar> I like it
<rick_h__> moka pot ftw! :)
<rick_h__> have a french press, the wife uses it but it's meh for coffee imo
<rick_h__> I almost got an aeropress, but it seemed like I'd be stuck with custom filters and the like
<brousch> I love the coffee from my french press
<brousch> It has more substance than filtered coffee, but no grounds get through
<rick_h__> moka pot
<rick_h__> much better than the french press
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> knew rick_h__ would have a strong opinion on the subject
<rick_h__> :)
<rick_h__> well I'm aeropress curious
<mrgoodcat> what don't you like about the press?
<mrgoodcat> most coffee lovers seem to love them
<rick_h__> french press?
<rick_h__> the taste of the coffee isn't as good
<brousch> I don't see what difference a moka pot would have compared to french press
<jrwren> french press: its better than drip
<rick_h__> right, it's better than drip
<rick_h__> but < moka pot
<rick_h__> and I don't know about aeropress
<mrgoodcat> the advantage of press over drip as I see it is a more even steep. Drip gets super bitter and over extracts some while under extracting the rest
<brousch> The filter is also a problem
<mrgoodcat> paper filter extracts the oils?
<mrgoodcat> you don't have to use a paper filter in a drip maker
<brousch> moka pot looks more annoying to set up and clean
<mrgoodcat> i'm trying to figure out what the advantage of moka pot is
<brousch> It gives you extra hipster points
<mrgoodcat> seems to me a moka pot would brew at above-optimal temperatures
<mrgoodcat> e.g. bitterness
<widox> I <3 my french press
<widox> maybe rick_h__ wasn't using a proper grind ;)
<rick_h__> :P
<rick_h__> grind level 1 baby
<widox> I have heard from many folks that the aeropress is great - I actually just got one, haven't used it yet though
<widox> brews a bit stronger then other methods
<widox> its also super easy to clean
<widox> and, you can get metal filters instead of paper ones
<widox> though, it comes with a few paper ones
<mrgoodcat> where do detroit-area folks get their beans?
<mrgoodcat> my parents always sing the praises of TONX
<rick_h__> every 2wk mail order peets
<widox> mrgoodcat: I started using Tonx recently. pretty good
<widox> otherwise, I like to buy eith Great Lakes or Germack beans
<mrgoodcat> i like the idea of tonx
<mrgoodcat> hassle free
<widox> yes. but you don't get a choice either
<mrgoodcat> yea...
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<widox> but, the risk of some crap beans is low :)
<mrgoodcat> time to go to lunch
<trevlar> I like to get Great Lakes too
<trevlar> available at westborn and other grocery stores if you can't make it to the shop
<cmaloney> I must be a complete luddite because I just get the Meijer beans. :)
<brousch> cmaloney: You disgust me
<greg-g> I get grocery store beans too
<cmaloney> Splurged on Zingermans beans last time we were at Meijer
<cmaloney> Though I don't get the "fill your own bag" beans. They're pre-sealed.
<greg-g> I don't feel like paying $15 for 12 ounces when I can get beans for $9.99/lb
<cmaloney> But they're not bad.
<cmaloney> I tend to drink things dark roasted anyway so bitterness is not a huhge factor for me.
<jrwren> cmaloney: the meijer organic beans aren't bad at all
 * greg-g is a light-medium roast kind of guy
<cmaloney> Ow. My foot just hurt pretty hard.
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Do you receive my Dragon Go Server invites?
<ColonelPanic001> hm. Did I install that on the new phone
<ColonelPanic001> I may just be dumb, hang on
<ColonelPanic001> I didn't before though, had to go to the site to accept them
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<brousch> I want to learn Go
<ColonelPanic001> play go
<cmaloney> brousch: Want book recommendations?
<cmaloney> Also, play lots off go
<brousch> I don't know any Gonads
<rick_h__> greg-g: woot light/medium, more caffiene
<brousch> I assume that's what you call yourselves
<ColonelPanic001> it is now
<cmaloney> we prefer Weiquinads
<ColonelPanic001> I don't.
<cmaloney> ;)
<greg-g> rick_h__: and taste, I like the taste better :)
 * ColonelPanic001 is a gonad
<rick_h__> greg-g: +1
<greg-g> rick_h__: as in, it has taste other than "burnt" ;)
<rick_h__> greg-g: I'm a picky meduium roastser guy. Peets domnico ftw
<rick_h__> greg-g: exactly!
<greg-g> :)
<ColonelPanic001> I have some maxwell house at home
<ColonelPanic001> nothing but the best decaf for me
<greg-g> good to the last drop
<brousch> French Roast. The burn covers the taste of sadness from decaf
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: please report to the town center where we can burn the heretic
<rick_h__> greg-g: http://www.peets.com/coffee/by-roast/coffee-shop-by-category-medium-roast/cafe-domingo-wholebean-each.html is what I get every 2wk ftw
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/eN3s85 - CafÃ© DomingoÂ® | Peet's Coffee & Tea
<rick_h__> domingo not domnico :/
<ColonelPanic001> or just send me coffee. I don't drink it enough to justify bothering with good stuff like I do with tea
<ColonelPanic001> too much caffeine
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: please report to the town center where we can draw, quarter, and then burn the heretic
<rick_h__> greg-g: <3 the camping pics
<greg-g> rick_h__: :) it was fun
<mrgoodcat> sudo reboot
<greg-g> first time with a camp stove since boy scouts
<mrgoodcat> gah ignore that
<rick_h__> lol
<ColonelPanic001> [sudo] password for mrgoodcat:
 * ColonelPanic001 crosses fingers
<rick_h__> greg-g: looked awesome, water, nice spot there.
<rick_h__> greg-g: the little man looked like he was having a blast
<greg-g> yeah, a secret spot :)
<greg-g> he did, he LOVES the woods
<greg-g> still scared of water a bit, but working on that
<rick_h__> glad to see you're not letting the beard go to waste lol
<greg-g> haha, nope
<rick_h__> yea, we started swim classes at 6mo because we wanted to try to bypass the water fear
<greg-g> unfortunately, I'm also growing a belly to go with it, need to work on that
<rick_h__> camping is good for that :) lots of steps
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h__> though we went to a county campground and there was an ice cream truck that came by. First time the boy got to do that
<rick_h__> he came running back from his mom waving it in his hand "daddy daddy look what I got!!!"
<mrgoodcat> no ice cream trucks in my neighborhood at home...
<greg-g> rick_h__: wow
<mrgoodcat> neighborhood assoc. decided not to allow them
<greg-g> yeah, no ice cream trucks at this campsite
<rick_h__> yea, the county part is much more of a camper/trailer thing. Lots of tent sites/etc but has a lot of trails, boat rentals, a kids activity schedule every weekend
<rick_h__> arts and hay rides/etc
<rick_h__> so it's a bit bigger/etc than your normal woods campsite
<greg-g> it's 12 miles up a road up the mountainside along a creek, dead ends at a trailhead. A mile before the trailhead is a campground with ~6ish sites. No water spigot, just vault toliets and two bear proof trash cans.
<rick_h__> but was funny, "we're camping, why is there an ice cream truck going by?"
<jrwren> i wish we had ice cream trucks here.  if we did, I'd not be able to hear it over my own music.
<rick_h__> so you hiked in the tent/stove/etc?
<rick_h__> nice
<greg-g> so, the only people who stay at this site either A) are just sleeping one night before they start out on a backpacking trip or B) have been told about it by friends as 'that place that is perfect, no resrevations ever, even foruth of july, and did I say it's pefect?"
<greg-g> oh, no, only hiked the stuff 50ft-ish, the site is one mile before the trailhead, along the road
<rick_h__> oh before it
<greg-g> yeah
<cmaloney> Y'know, I'm starting to sour on these Leopold keyboards.
<rick_h__> did I tell you we switched up our plans out there
<cmaloney> Having an issue with the f key
<rick_h__> greg-g: we're going to do yosemite vs wine country
<rick_h__> cmaloney: time to go filco, keyboard level += 1
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm starting to think so as well
<cmaloney> Though the CODE keyboard piqued my interest.
<greg-g> rick_h__: whoa! nice!
<cmaloney> We'll see. If this thing starts misbehaving again then I'll be making an order
<greg-g> rick_h__: where are you staying? in the park or a hotel outside?
<mrgoodcat> backpacking++
<rick_h__> greg-g: cabin outside
<mrgoodcat> greg-g: what trail?
<cmaloney> though obviously not from this keyboard should the F key go wonky. :)
<greg-g> cool!
<rick_h__> mrgoodcat: no, we're going to be in SFO with family and have luggage/etc
<greg-g> mrgoodcat: California Trinity-Shasta National Forest
<rick_h__> so just day hikes, but I'll be bringing the tripid and camer gear
<mrgoodcat> ah. thats a bit far for me
<greg-g> I'm not giving direct directions, I need to keep this place semi-secret :)
<rick_h__> mrgoodcat: hoists lakes and the manistee river trail/northern country trail loop are nice around here
<rick_h__> lol
<mrgoodcat> i like killarney provincial park in canada
<rick_h__> though we've not backpacked since the boy was born
<mrgoodcat> i've done some of the app. trail too though and it was amazing
<rick_h__> greg-g: but yea, doing a really good family friendly wine country thing was getting to be too pita, so big parks it is then!
<rick_h__> greg-g: not like we're out that way that often to see it anyway
<greg-g> yeah, backpacking turned to car camping on Dec 11, 2012 :)
<rick_h__> lol
<greg-g> we tried one night of backpacking with a 6 month old, it worked, but yeah, only one night :)
<greg-g> the next day we went a bought a coleman tent and air mattress :)
<mrgoodcat> wow that sounds painful
<greg-g> it wasn't too bad, he was mostly in "happy to be carried in a carrier" mode
<greg-g> but, making camp/dinner/setup stuff was tough
<rick_h__> hah, yea we did tent camping but he'd get up at 4:30am most trips
<rick_h__> and moved over to trailer "camping"
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h__> greg-g: see my eagles nest pics from our trip the 4th?
<greg-g> no!
<greg-g> on g+?
<rick_h__> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14622411343/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/iwlo54 - P1030553.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<rick_h__> yea, G+ and I thought on twitter, but maybe not
<cmaloney> http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/zlZLK7 - KUL ES-87 Tenkeyless Keyboard (Cherry MX Clear) - elitekeyboards.com - Products
<cmaloney> That looks interesting
<rick_h__> greg-g: there's one chick in the nest and another up to the left on a branch
<greg-g> cool
<rick_h__> yea, was hoping to get mom or dad around but no luck
<rick_h__> 550mm range to get that shot, needed a boat to get closer heh
<mrgoodcat> rick_h__: what camera?
<rick_h__> mrgoodcat: my gx7
<rick_h__> think it has camera/lens info if you scroll down
<mrgoodcat> ah yes it does
<rick_h__> ran into deer several times as well https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14579111846/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/cG2vSx - P1030476.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<rick_h__> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14579079506/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/W0EpMH - P1030448.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<rick_h__> https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/14414905070/in/photostream/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Qe2SEp - P1030193.jpg | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
<greg-g> kids on summer vaction in coffee shop drinking their latte's through a straw
<rick_h__> lol
<mrgoodcat> heh
<cmaloney> And to think we had to beg our parents for coffee-milk
<cmaloney> Didn't even know how to order it
<greg-g> spoiled kids too, you should see their table, it's disgusting
<greg-g> half-finished pastries, crumbs everywhere
<mrgoodcat> my dog would love them
<cmaloney> Hate that
<rick_h__> greg-g: wife sent this to me the other day http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052970204740904577196931457473816?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052970204740904577196931457473816.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/4aFso0 - Suspicious Activity Detected | Distil
<rick_h__> bah
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h__> wsj hates me
<cmaloney> Also: FUck Microsoft Activation
<rick_h__> lol
<rick_h__> greg-g: well shared with you on G+ and hopefully loads
<greg-g> yeah, that loaded fine
<cmaloney> Had to do a repair on MS Office because it couldn't activate properly.
<greg-g> I remember there being a book recently about that, an american mom who moved to france and how she changed her parenting etc
<cmaloney> Installed Libreoffice in the interim because it doesn't care how you use it, just how you distribute it.
<rick_h__> greg-g: yea, not usually up to the bait of that stuff
<cmaloney> If it's in the WSJ it's likely because someone is promoting said book.
<greg-g> ah, yeah, rick_h__, that's an excerpt/adaptation of the book I was thining of
<cmaloney> ++
<rick_h__> greg-g: ah interesting
<greg-g> wait, no
<rick_h__> cmaloney: gets the medal!
<greg-g> no, unwait, yes
<greg-g> it said "to be published on tuesday" so i was confused, until i saw the publication date of the article
<rick_h__> anyway, I think we as parents sometimes do like to compare against others and yet know/feel like we shouldn't
<cmaloney> Seriously, the only time a news-source prints a "blinding flash of the obvious" it's because someone is promoting something
<cmaloney> Wonder at what point all of the news will be sponsored by something
<cmaloney> "12 car-pileup in Downtown Happytown reported. In his latest book 'how to keep from crashing' Dr. Wanker described the common causes of 12 car pileups"
<cmaloney> "1) Losing focus on the focus of driving"
<cmaloney> "2) Rapture. Though this isn't as common as #1."
<greg-g> I pray ever day for the rapture
<greg-g> not for the same reasons others do
<cmaloney> "Calgon, take them away"
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> rapture palooza was a terrible movie.
<rick_h__> lol
<jrwren> looks like she did a 2013 followup: BÃ©bÃ© day by day : 100 keys to French parenting
<gamerchick02> itunes is a pain in the arse. bleh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-11
<cmaloney> Yay, I'm getting Russian Spam now. :)
<cmaloney> Thought it might have been a "press release" from a band since it was sent to the OMC account
<cmaloney> Nope. Lose 2-4 pounds weekly.
<brousch> By slam dancing to our music
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> Heh, definitely.
<cmaloney> Good morning btw
<rick_h__> morning
<ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: stop adding Go books on goodreads.
<ColonelPanic001> Not fair, you're not supposed to get better at it
<cmaloney> ColonelPanic001: Heh. :)
<cmaloney> Funny thing is I haven't read all that much
<cmaloney> Speaking of which, if anyone wants to play more Go LMK
<cmaloney> brousch: It's a great way to learn. Seriously.
<cmaloney> Not sure if I'd go up against random strangers on the internet yet.
<mrgoodcat> why do they destroy you?
<brousch> What's a good way to learn?
<cmaloney> Unless they're Nolan Bushell, in which case it'd be an honor to receive an asskicking on the Go board from him.
<ColonelPanic001> yeah, if you want to learn to play go, just get in there and start losing
<ColonelPanic001> the famous quote by some master go player is "a beginner should lose their first fifty games as quickly as possible"
<brousch> ColonelPanic001: That would ruin my perfect record
<cmaloney> brousch: There's also some decent Go problem apps on the Play store
<cmaloney> Tsumego Pro is nice.
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: I don't gamble for the same reason. I have bought exactly one scratch-off lottery thing. Paid a dollar, won $1. I win.
<cmaloney> brousch: There's also some pretty good books out there
<cmaloney> but I'd highly recommend getting either an app for a tablet (phone can be too small at times)
<cmaloney> BW-Go is good for online play, GoDroid is excellent for solo play
<jrwren> and here I thought you were talking go-lang
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, this one pre-dates it a little bit. :)
<brousch> I signed up for this dragon server
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mco.prj.srv.bwdgs
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/i0DLf1 - BW-DGS - Android Apps on Google Play
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mco.prj.srv.bwgnugo
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/y8hpM2 - BW-GnuGo - Android Apps on Google Play
<mathomastech> Was freenode down for a period of time yesterday?
<mrgoodcat> not that i know of
<mrgoodcat> maybe your server netsplit
<mrgoodcat> at around 18:38 yesterday mine netsplit
<mathomastech> Hmm, ok. Never heard of that before. Interesting
<mrgoodcat> freenode netsplits all the time
<cmaloney> Well that was fun
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mco.prj.app.bwgo
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/La3htT - BW-Go - Android Apps on Google Play
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.aifactory.go <- This one is a little strange in how it scores.
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/h1Ypyc - Go - Android Apps on Google Play
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.agrothe.go <- This one is a lot better.
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ivAqNH - GOdroid - Android Apps on Google Play
<cmaloney> Though the interface isn't that pretty.
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.lrstudios.android.tsumego_workshop
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/VoC1nm - Tsumego Pro (Go Problems) - Android Apps on Google Play
<cmaloney> This is a bunch of Go problems.
<brousch> I don't want problems. i want solutions!
<cmaloney> You'll get solutions
<cmaloney> http://shop.gogameguru.com/go-books/go-ebooks/ <- This is a decent series, though the author is very chatty in his books
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/4DlcRc - Go eBooks - Download Go Books
<cmaloney> self-published and in need of an editor, but otherwise quite good
<cmaloney> And there's lots of published Go books out there. I'm finding Beginning Go is a decent second-book but not a terribly good first book
<cmaloney> Or rather a companion book
<cmaloney> Anywho, that's my Go talk for today.
<cmaloney> :)
<cmaloney> Please exit throught he gift shop
<brousch> Is there a Go server written in Go yet?
<cmaloney> brousch: Consider it an opportunity
<brousch> I would name it GoGo and make jokes about whether it boots or not
<cmaloney> Would plugins be called "gadgets"?
<cmaloney> Then you could have GoGo gadget arms
<brousch> oooh, that's good
<cmaloney> I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of this. :)
<brousch> cmaloney: On the topic of games, I think you suggested Fluxx to me a while ago. We gave it a try and enjoyed it
<cmaloney> brousch: I'm glad. I hate that game. :)
<cmaloney> But it works for some people.
<brousch> heh
<brousch> I need to work my family up to munchkin
<brousch> This is a pretty good start
<cmaloney> Be careful with Munchkin and younger children
<cmaloney> some of the sets are a little more risque than others
<brousch> I think I have plain and pirate
<cmaloney> OK
<cmaloney> http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=92732
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/4waATw - Munchkin for young children - Steve Jackson Games Forums
<brousch> Uno is his favorite game, so sabotaging people is not a problem
<cmaloney> Hah
<cmaloney> you might want to check out Ascension: Apprentice Edition
<cmaloney> $10 and a decent 2 player game
<cmaloney> Only thing that might be a little intense for him would be monsters getting cut in half.
<cmaloney> http://www.imagekind.com/art/Dreamers-Glassart_art?IMID=ed1dad9e-efe7-4bd2-b680-1807f1eb9069
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/0IG4gK - Dreamer's Glass by Eric Sabee
<cmaloney> This is the style of the artwork
<cmaloney> http://www.imagekind.com/art/Black-Watch-Eliteart_art?IMID=a3f30cf8-bf6c-46d6-9ea2-d4e310a4822a
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/WCzBmz - Black Watch Elite by Eric Sabee
<brousch> Yeah, we'll stick with the fluxxes for probably 2 years
<cmaloney> kk
<brousch> They have different "flavors" too
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> Though iirc Fluxx has some PG cards in there
<cmaloney> I think there's weed references in there.
<cmaloney> minor references at best
<cmaloney> There's also some "programming" games out there.
<cmaloney> Duck Duck Go, Robot Rally
<cmaloney> Have only played Duck Duck Go. JoDee didn't care for it.
<brousch> I have robot turtle
<brousch> Tried it about a year ago with poor results, so I'll wait a while and try it again
<cmaloney> Oh, yeah, that kickstarter game
<jrwren> StoneTable: !!!
<jrwren> cmaloney: your email said videos were on the website, but I only see June.
<cmaloney> One sec
<cmaloney> http://www.mug.org/2014/07/video-july-8th-2014-meeting/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/8nxjEI - Video: July 8th 2014 Meeting | Michigan!/usr/group
<StoneTable> hey jrwren :)
<jrwren> thanks cmaloney
<cmaloney> jrwren: np
<greg-g> just used my old crusty bug triaging knowledge from when I was in the top 10ish of bug triagers on LP to help my boss
<greg-g> basically, this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage#Any
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/FJem22 - Bugs/FindRightPackage - Ubuntu Wiki
<greg-g> thanks #ubuntu-bugs and bdmurray
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=140510291304119&w=2
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/SB6FGx - 'First release of LibreSSL portable is available.' - MARC
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-12
<tony-smlr> About to go Live: SMLR Live E130 - Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo_auoFACec - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/k36EOQ - SMLR Live Episode 130 - YouTube
<tony-smlr> We are also chatting on #smlr
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/r4DLeN - application/ogg
<cmaloney> Good morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-13
<cmaloney> Afternoon. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-06
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> Anyone here for the meeting?
<cmaloney> Figured tonight would be a little light since it's the Sunday of a holiday weekend
<waldo323> I'm here
<cmaloney> Woo woo
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/917/detail/
<cmaloney> Here's the current agenda
<cmaloney> There's not a whole lot to cover but I wanted to get Ohio Linuxfest on everyone's radar
<cmaloney> Since that's coming up in the fall
<cmaloney> Not sure who all is planning on going
<waldo323> I might be able to get work to pay for it or pyohio but prolly not both
<cmaloney> I think we're going to both
<cmaloney> PyOhio is a definite
<cmaloney> fixed point in time and all
<waldo323> Looks like ohio linux fest will be October 2-3
<cmaloney> Yeah,
<cmaloney> It's at a strange time this tear.
<cmaloney> year
<wolfger> woo! Did I actually make it to a meeting for once?
<wolfger> or is it over? :-p
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> It's just really quiet
<wolfger> is somebody hunting wabbits?
<cmaloney> Not really
<cmaloney> Just not a lot of folks talking on channel. :)
<cmaloney> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-mi/917/detail/
<wolfger> just as well... it's nigh bedtime
<cmaloney> About the only thing to talk about is Ohio Linuxfest
<wolfger> so other than jcastro doing keynote, anything going on at OLF from MiLoCo
<wolfger> ?
<cmaloney> Well,, that's what I'd like to broach. ;)
<cmaloney> UNless there's anything else I think we can call this meeting adjourned. :)
<cmaloney> Tune in next month. :)
<waldo323> :-)
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> Yes. I have 2 days off and my 3D printer is arriving today
<cmaloney> This is not good
 * cmaloney makes a list of things for brousch to print
<brousch> heh
<jrwren> isn't today the death day of bmark.us?
<jrwren> err, bookie.io I mean?
<cmaloney> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:666802
<cmaloney> It was ysterday
<jrwren> for a second, I thought that was host:port and port was that huge number .
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Each thing gets its own server.;)
<cmaloney> http://www.thingiverse.com/RabbitEngineering/designs
<jrwren> cmaloney: https://soundcloud.com/kimguy/love-like-blood-killing-joke
<cmaloney> Not familiar with the original
<jrwren> cmaloney: ah. I thought you would be.
<cmaloney> I've loved Killing Joke as a concept. In practice I haven't found the right album yet. :)
<jrwren> ha! I can relate.
<jrwren> i'm going to guess  no way out but forward go is it.
<jrwren> i have a greatest hits boxedset or something and I can't get all the way through it. There is some great stuff and then there isn't.
<jrwren> I love that they are so diverse.
<cmaloney> I tried Pandemonium
<cmaloney> finally sold it
<cmaloney> I think that's another problem with getting into an established band: they have so many different periods
<jrwren> oh, I have The Singles Collection, not some boxset
<cmaloney> so if one doesn't stick then you'll write them off for too long
<cmaloney> see: Yes
<jrwren> yup
<cmaloney> Though the album that I strongly associated with them (and wrote them off for the longest time) became one of my favorite albums of theirs.
<cmaloney> 90125 and Big Generator
<cmaloney> Even Fly from Here is pretty awesome
<rick_h_> howdy
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> yo
<waldo323_> Hey
<brousch> Frist pirnt results https://goo.gl/photos/L2asYPpxy162wVW89
<cmaloney> OK
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-07
<_stink_> anyone listen to http://am1610.org/ ?
<cscheib> jrwren: ever try Crazy Fresh coffee?  apparently made in MI, they had it at Costco.  I wasn't a fan of the blend/roast I got. Not sure if I ever want ot try anything of theirs again
<jrwren> if it was the same one that my costco had recnetly, then yes. I also did not like.
<jrwren> organic?
<jrwren> a light roast?
<cscheib> I can't remember, I think so (seems most coffee is organic anyway)
<cscheib> lemme grab the bag
<cscheib> Full City roast
<jrwren> i prefer dark roasts, so I know thiw as light by taste.
<jrwren> very earthy
<cscheib> Honduran Santa Rosa SHG blend
<jrwren> maybe its different.
<cscheib> think I'm gonna give it a try again tomorrow, then return it
<jrwren> oh that bad?
<cscheib> just got Costco membership, so may as well exercise the benefits
<jrwren> true!
<cscheib> yea - don't know if I over steeped or under-steeped
<cscheib> I've tried it with 4 mins and 6 mins in the french press
<jrwren> that is plenty.
<cscheib> it's probably considerably better when filtered
<jrwren> its kinda hard to over steep.
<jrwren> I do 10min sometimes
<jrwren> you could try cold brew and drip, just to see if you like it
<cscheib> pondering getting one of those pour-overs that has the stopper on it
<cscheib> haven't tried cold brewing
<jrwren> i've had those, brewed by a friend, they can be VERY Good
<jrwren> he was using a great local roast though :)
<jrwren> my wife likes the cold brew, she does it occasionally
<cscheib> I only brew 20oz of coffee a day or so, so taking me a while to experiment with all the variables (temp, time)
<cscheib> and volume
<jrwren> I'll often drink 1/2 a pot, then make french press :)
<cscheib> heh.  I only do FP
<cscheib> when my Keurig started dying, I decided I no longer would survive on crappy coffee
<jrwren> wife preps the pot on a timer. its ready to drink when we awake. That part is very nice.
<jrwren> YAY
<jrwren> We started getting this Truck Stop Joe from some roaster in Traverse City. Meijer carries it
<jrwren> its not too expensive and we love the taste.
<cscheib> I've not seen it at my meijer (i've looked)
<jrwren> bummer.
<jrwren> i hope mine doesn't drop it.
<jrwren> if they do i'll have to see if they ship :)
<cscheib> I'm sure they do
<cscheib> ah, clever drippers, that's waht I was thinking of
<cmaloney> Morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> whassup?
<_stink_> first order of business: remember what day it is
<rick_h_> heh, 'unbury from email day'
<cmaloney> I'd love to know why cgproxy gets into a state where it logs "arguments to dbus_message_iter_append_basic() were incorrect, assertion "_dbus_check_is_valid_utf8 (*string_p)" failed in file ../../dbus/dbus-message.c line 2535." ad diskum fillum
<cmaloney> unrelated: I really need to upgrade my machine to 14.04 at least.
<cmaloney> Still rocking 12.04 on the home machine.
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> how do you live? :]
<cmaloney> badly
<cmaloney> ;)
<jrwren> i was going to list things so much nicer about 14.04 and 15.04, but I couldn't think of any.
<jrwren> I think in 15.04, hte kernel is new enough that I finally trust btrfs, so that is cool :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2015/07/07/open-metalcast-episode-120-live-until-120/
<cmaloney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/microbit
<cmaloney> Interesting, but no mention of Linux. Then again, Microsoft and Samsung are involved so it's Android and likely Azure.
<jrwren> no price?
<jrwren> oh. FREE!
<cmaloney> Yeah, apparently there's a shortage of tech folks in the UK
<cmaloney> and the BBC is once again spearheading the charge
<jrwren> what a load of crap.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-08
<cscheib> jrwren: Truck Stop Organics coffee?
<jcastro> rick_h_: any word on those party pics?
<rick_h_> jcastro: oh yea, on the camera. Will try to pull them today.
<jcastro> it would be hilarious if you lost them because you forgot to put them in the cloud
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> when you're on holiday with 0 bars of anything the cloud doesn't exist any more
<jcastro> rick_h_: man dude, so I made a "Snappy server" out of an old laptop
<jcastro> and did the docker container thing
<jcastro> it's basically, pretty f'ing awesome
 * rick_h_ reminds self to download more music into offline on his phone
<rick_h_> jcastro: very cool
<jcastro> it's basically an appliance at that point
<jcastro> well, until I ran out of disk space but that was my fault
<jrwren> cscheib: yes, that coffee.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Reminder: CHC tonight
<cmaloney> Also: tomorrow is Zoomance.
<cmaloney> 21+ Detroit Zoo.
<cmaloney> JoDee and I got tickets. :)
<rick_h_> ooh
<rick_h_> sounds fun
<cmaloney> Yeah, got an email about it yesterday.
<cmaloney> They have a wine series which is already sold out
<cmaloney> bastards.
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/07/microsoft-to-cut-7800-more-jobs-mostly-in-its-hardware-division/
<cmaloney> so can we officially call the Nokia merger a patent and technology takeover?
<cmaloney> Heh, sad thing is there's no patents involved. They're just licensed.
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/07/logitech-to-rebrand-as-logi-dropping-tech-from-its-name/
<cmaloney> dafuq?
<jrwren> LG was goldstar :)
<rick_h_> logi?
<rick_h_> souds like an emoji name or something
<rick_h_> or one of those electronic pets you had to push buttons to keep alive
<jrwren> tomaguchi ?
<rick_h_> there you go!
<rick_h_> logi the tomaguchi (sp?)
<jrwren> Tamagotchi
<cscheib> I suspect you're making that association, because I think there was a knockoff called digi-pet or something like that
<rick_h_> cscheib: totally possible
<cmaloney> Yeah, I don't understand this rebranding at all
<cmaloney> sounds like the combination of loogie and emoji
<cmaloney> http://www.logitech.com/
<cmaloney> Apparently Ars got it wrong
<cmaloney> it's Logitech is still the name of the parent company.
<rick_h_> jcastro: pulled pics off and working on importing/etc
<rick_h_> jcastro: only one came out 'ok' it was too dark down there. The funny shot is kind of cool blurry, kids going nuts
<rick_h_> jcastro: should have brought a more automatic lens for the guy taking the pic to use :(
<cmaloney> party?
<cmaloney> http://www.theonion.com/article/area-woman-finally-uploads-all-12-million-pictures-30443 <- for rick_h_
<rick_h_> jcastro: https://flic.kr/p/vKQMDp
<rick_h_> smoser: jrwren ^
<rick_h_> sorry, but at 1/2 shutter speed <3 oly image stabilization to get it that good hand held by a stranger
<rick_h_> on a manual focus lens heh
<jrwren> that baby's face is scary :)
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Should have thought of that beforehand. ;)
<jrwren> poor smoser baby
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well I thought I'd get some protraits so threw in a 45mm/75mm, only thing wide I had was the MF lens :(
<smoser> the lighting not so good there.
<cmaloney> "Lessee, camera will be about 4 meters away, at 1/12 shutter speed the focal length should be... wait, let me get a napkin and a pen"
<jrwren> too bad it was raining outside
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, and I should have done better test shots
<rick_h_> but was rushing with everyone trying to line up
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Seriously though, if that's a shitty shot then your camera is pretty good at compensating
<cmaloney> Nothing to be ashamed of there.
<rick_h_> https://flic.kr/p/vtfm4U for the full movement pic (non-color compensated and all that)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, group pics are hard, especially in less than ideal lighting. It's why most are done outside
<cmaloney> smoser-baby is not staying still for anything in the world.
<jrwren> my girl is a demon in that one.
<jrwren> she is showing her true form.
<cmaloney> the true face of Wren?
<cscheib> is that jorge's basement, finished now?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-09
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Whassup in the land of Ubuntu folk?
<cmaloney> Ubufolk?
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> oh I already said that
<wolfger> lol
 * rick_h_ is sleepy
<wolfger> morning
<wolfger> We have Ubuntu folk in here?
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha my masterpiece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbkTSHz1jJ4 (well first one ever but still)
<wolfger> Nice.
<wolfger> Quit watching "rick_h_ moving in doublespeed" at 30 seconds or so, but nice.
<wolfger> I like your fishing kayak rig
<rick_h_> oh that was the long walk to the lake, then it gets to catching fish
<wolfger> yeah, I figured catching fish came next. Another reason I quit watching at 0:30 xD
<wolfger> fishing can be enjoyable. So can golf. Watching other people do those things bores me to tears though.
<cmaloney> Wow, didn't know rick_h_ was "The Flash"
<wolfger> he's got a very good secret identity
<rick_h_> whoop
<cmaloney> heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-10
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<rick_h_> worky worky
<cmaloney> woo woo
<cmaloney> ;)
<rick_h_> how's down south?
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Sunny and once again with air conditioning
<cmaloney> Yesterday we got the AC replaced.
<cmaloney> Went on Tuesday
<rick_h_> yay
<cmaloney> 13 Seeeeeers
<cmaloney> Whatever that means
<cmaloney> it's bigger than 7 seeeeeeeers
 * cmaloney figures if I keep sayting that it'll somehow make it look like I know what I'm talking about
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-11
<jrwren> cmaloney: i can't remember. You like synths? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NjuVVfbXD4
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, I love synth music
<cmaloney> especially the arpegiated Tangerine Dream stuff
<cmaloney> lub lub lub lub lub lub lub lub
<cscheib> Did you guys see DevopsDays is coming to Detroit? http://www.devopsdays.org/events/2015-detroit/
<cmaloney> Interesting
<cmaloney> jrwren: BTW: You're like the 4th result for North C
<cmaloney> (fired up the Amiga you gave me and was playing around with it a bit. ;))
<cmaloney> Showed JoDee the demos on the machine. She thought they were stunning
<cmaloney> It's criminal how badly Commodore fucked up the Amiga.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-12
<_stink_> if anyone is interested: Meredith Kristine Lincoln, born yesterday at 8:15pm.  all are good
<cmaloney> If anyone is interested. If anyone is interested.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Congratulations! I'm interested. :)
<_stink_> thanks!
<cscheib> _stink_: congrats
<jrwren> cmaloney: thanks!
<jrwren> cmaloney: North C was one of the things I never did get to work.
<jrwren> cmaloney: I life failure, but I learned so much trying :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: have you tried The Music Studio yet? amazing software for 1987
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone was supposed to get that to work. :)
<cmaloney> Haven't fired that up yet but will check it out next time
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-11
<_stink_> it's nice out
<_stink_> really still
<cmaloney> i swear we ran into a dozen people playing pokemon go
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> EVERYONE (not really, but most) were plyaing it in AA last night.
<jrwren> it was so much fun messing with them.
<cmaloney> ourselves included (JoDee)
<cmaloney> jah
<cmaloney> tjat is awesome
<cmaloney> figured AA woild have more
<Zimdale> Man
<Zimdale> we just drove through farmington
<Zimdale> people EVERYWHERE playing that stupid game
<Zimdale> the traction is unreal
<cmaloney> but we went by my parent's place and there were people out in the parks
<cmaloney> its amazimg
<Zimdale> It's like 0-facebook overnight
<jrwren> i know there ws a squirtle on liberty last night ;]
<cmaloney> jeh
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> stupid keyboard
<cmaloney> Morning
<mrgoodcat> there was a squirtle somewhere near the restaurant last night but it never came close enough for me to snag it
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> JoDee caught some crab thing but it managed to escape and lock her phone.
<cmaloney> (well, the app, not hte phone)
<mrgoodcat> wow that is quite the crab thing
<cmaloney> which was not hard to do
<mrgoodcat> its the buggiest app i've ever used for an extended period of time
<cmaloney> That app has some issues
<cmaloney> heh
<mrgoodcat> I usually have no patience for that kind of thing
<cmaloney> I'm just glad that the news reports were able to explain what we were doing to my parents
<cmaloney> because I was having a hell of a time. ;)
<mrgoodcat> haha
<cmaloney> and of course when we're standing out there near their house there wasn't anything that JoDee could catch to give a good demo
<Zimdale> Just feel for the server guys having to keep that shit running
<cmaloney> totally
<cmaloney> esp. since the only way to get it to re-run was to re-authenticate
<Zimdale> I don't think they ever could have predicted the traction that it got
<cmaloney> nope
<Zimdale> at least they run it off google cloud engine so in theory they can scale horizontally
<cmaloney> I'd wager this was orders of magnitude more popular than Ingres
<Zimdale> very very much
<cmaloney> we came to the Ingres party way late and I never saw anyone playing it
<cmaloney> not that I tried very hard
<Zimdale> I never heard of ingres until this app came out
<Zimdale> and people started bitching about it not being original
<mrgoodcat> haha
<mrgoodcat> i played ingress a bit
<mrgoodcat> i think a lot of people installed the app then never firgured out what you're even supposed to do
<mrgoodcat> also joining late was a pain i've heard since the stronger players just stomped u
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Yeah, I felt like a gnat at a picnic when we started
<cmaloney> merely an annoyance to the bigger players
<mrgoodcat> according to forbes, pokemon is about to pass twitter in DAUs
<mrgoodcat> http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2016/07/10/pokemon-go-about-to-surpass-twitter-in-daily-active-users/#1677d0685174
<cmaloney> That wouldn't surprise me
<cmaloney> though it'll be interesting to see what it looks like in 2-3 weeks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-12
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> reminder: mig tonight
<cmaloney> mug
<cmaloney> feh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-13
<Scary_Guy> shit, I missed mug
<Scary_Guy> well I was working on audio crap, although I'd have missed it anyway since my friend didn't call to remind me saying he wanted to go like he usually does.  oh well :/
<cmaloney> lovely
<cmaloney> We missed you
<Scary_Guy> "where's that weird guy in all black with the hat" :p
<cmaloney> running late for CHC.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-14
<cmaloney> morn
<jrwren> does anyone know anything about the Jonathan Hall Memorial Library in Ridgeway?
<cmaloney> Nope.
<rick_h_> maybe I should have come to CHC last night instead of fishing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_nZIs-4tI8
<jrwren> nope
<mrgoodcat> oh man that looks awful
<mrgoodcat> what camera is that out of curiosity?
<rick_h_> mrgoodcat: the sony av cam
<mrgoodcat> i've heard that thing is sweet. video looks good
<mrgoodcat> bit of water on the lens makes it look like you weren't wearing pants tho
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> yea, I've used it for the other videos I have up there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfxhvxNIYvc
<rick_h_> well the ones from this year
<rick_h_> got it for the hawaii trip
<rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETaykvw0pbw
<rick_h_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJKA5fKqsoo
<mrgoodcat> do you have a gimbal or anything like that?
<rick_h_> no, just a selfie stick and a handle I use on it and then I mount it on the kayak when I use it there
<rick_h_> I got that camera because it has some built in IS though
<rick_h_> so it should be a bit more forgiving without giant accessories
<mrgoodcat>  yea from the trailer walkthrough it looked like there was some IS going on
<mrgoodcat> but it was too jumpy to be a gimbal
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> rick_h_: THat's the fun of fishing. :)
<cmaloney> I keep expecting this to break into "yakkity sax" when it speeds up
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> jcastro: noooooooo new motox replacement is sanss headphone jack wtf!
<cmaloney> Welcome to the new age of having to have a piece of plastic that can ruin your phone.
<cmaloney> I think they've over-shot the idea that people have Bluetooth headphones
<cmaloney> And the quality of Bluetooth
<cmaloney> But, Apple decreed the 3.5" headphone jack is over and we all must now suffer
<jcastro> rick_h_: yeah, stupid
<jrwren> apple decreed?
<jrwren> the latest iphones have 3.5" jacks.
<mrgoodcat> the rumor mill is that the as-yet-unreleased one will not
<mrgoodcat> bluetooth and thunderbolt for iphone, bluetooth and usb-c for android is the most likely scenario for all flagship phones of the future
<mrgoodcat> can't wait to buy yet another adapter to use my phone with my current headphones
<mrgoodcat> rick_h_: do you have a source?
<jrwren> sad that rumors cause such theatrics.
<mrgoodcat> this one is likely to be true from what i've heard
<jrwren> lightning not thunderbolt.
<jrwren> i might not even care if the lightning to 3.5" adapter is cheap enough.
<mrgoodcat> w/e
<jrwren> but if its $50, I'll be pissed!!!
<mrgoodcat> it will need a DAC
<mrgoodcat> and that likely means battery too
<mrgoodcat> unless the lightning connector can power peripherals?
<jrwren> no wai.
<mrgoodcat> idk that much about lightning
<jrwren> of course lightning can power things.
<jrwren> it already powers SD readers.
<mrgoodcat> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<jrwren> i don't have to worry about it for 4 yrs, assuming i get 4 more years out of this phone ;]
<mrgoodcat> yea i'm planning on keeping my n6 for as long as possible
<mrgoodcat> and hopefully the accessory market will stabilize around the new world order of no 3.5 jacks by then
<mrgoodcat> or they could just make bluetooth good
<jrwren> i only use BT to connect to low quality BT speakers.
<jrwren> what is wrong with BT?
<jrwren> I find the number of taps on iOS to connect a BT speaker to be offensive.
<jrwren> yes, I'm offended by the bad UX.
<mrgoodcat> BT is alright but there are many bad implementations
<mrgoodcat> every car ever for instance
<jrwren> oh. i don't use cars. ;]
<cmaloney> In the real world we use cars
<cmaloney> (eg: ouside of Utopianarbor)
<cmaloney> But yeah, I'm both amazed at how well Bluetooth works when it works, and horrified whenever I have to set up a new connection at how much of an insecure PITA it is to setup
<cmaloney> and ant dongle hanging off of a phone is going to be a stress point
<cmaloney> so invariably whenever someone sits down will be when said dongle snaps at the connector
<jrwren> 3.5" BT adapter on the cheap might be doable and nice even.
<cmaloney> and one more dippy device in your pocket
<jrwren> my recent life hack has been dropping a cheap $20 BT speaker into a sock. Tying the stock to my handlebars and its my radio while biking.
<mrgoodcat> haha
<cmaloney> Also an effective bludgeon
<mrgoodcat> i keep mine in a backpack
<mrgoodcat> one of those mesh ones
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-15
<shakes808> Good Friday morning all!
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<shakes808> thoughts about Windows OS as a service to corporations?
<jrwren> you mean like windows on EC2?
<jrwren> my thoughts on that phrase are: windows does a lot of things. focus on something smaller.
<shakes808> Read today that they are going to charge corporations a monthly charge on top of licensing per user per month
<jrwren> hahhaha seriously?
<jrwren> that is great for alternatives.
<shakes808> yeah.  might push people over to linux / mac if they decide to bring that model to consumers
<shakes808> exactly!
<jrwren> I don't think they will bring it to consumers, but it will push corporations off windows too.
<_stink_> link?
<shakes808> http://tinyurl.com/joz93bv
<shakes808> was getting it :)
<_stink_> :)
<jrwren> forbes.
<jrwren> its probably lies.
<jrwren> do you have a link that isn't forbes?
<shakes808> HAHA.
<shakes808> Will see if anyone is reporting on this
<shakes808> http://tinyurl.com/jx76qvq
<shakes808> haven't read this one, but came up in the search.
<shakes808> more reputable?
<jrwren> barely, but its not forbes, so I'll read it.
<_stink_> haha
<jrwren> âFor the price of a cup of coffee and a donut per day,"   remember he lives in Redmond, so this is $30
<shakes808> haha
<jrwren> surface tablets as a services... leasing them. I'm surprised MSFT didn't have a corporate lease program previously.
<jrwren> I still don't understand this article. Was windows 10 not covered under previous volume license agreements?
<jrwren> or is it that they aren't licensing it to businesses outside of a volume license agreement?
<jrwren> its all so confusing, its another reason I prefer open source.
<cmaloney> I haven't seen any other articles other than the Forbes article
<cmaloney> so taking it with salt
<cmaloney> on a slug
<cmaloney> a forbes-shaped slug
<cmaloney> As soon as it hits Ars I'll take it seriosly
<cmaloney> (Forbes is in the same bucket as The Register: needs more proof, preferably from someone not at Forbes /The Register)
<jrwren> yup
<jrwren> forbes is terrible.
<shakes808> gotcha.  I guess it is something to watch for
<cmaloney> no worries
<cmaloney> I can believe MS is looking for more revenue streams
<cmaloney> and they've intimated subscription-based pricing with things liek Office
<cmaloney> probably because some offices want a more consistent month-to-month spread to budget
<cmaloney> So it makes sense
<cmaloney> but my theory is if it's true it'll get picked up to the point where you can't help but hear about it
<jcastro> I think a more saas approach is the way to go
<jcastro> if you have to pay X a month for windows then you don't have to be like "we want to stay on windows XP for ever."
<cmaloney> I'm not sure I follow that logic
<jcastro> if windows is a service then you get rid of version numbers entirely
<cmaloney> wI guess
<jcastro> so instead of a company paying you once a year they just split that to monthly payments
<cmaloney> So basically you're paying for terminal service
<cmaloney> instead of a PC on your desk
<jcastro> right
<jcastro> the world is moving saas, the desktop is just the last holdout
<cmaloney> I think that's a horrible idea
<cmaloney> but what do I know.
<jcastro> I'm not saying it's either good or bad
<jcastro> it's just how everything is going
<cmaloney> Yeah, getting sucked back into the mainframe
<jcastro> like, why would I buy quicken for a desktop when I can just subscribe to quicken?
<cmaloney> "sorry, PC revolution, we didn't really like you anyway"
<jcastro> nothing is immune to cost
<jcastro> If someone can sell you a service for a fraction of the cost then people will buy it
<cmaloney> It's all about control
<jcastro> right, and given enough savings, people will give that up in a heartbeat
<cmaloney> we're seeing the pendulum swing back to software being controlled so there's no piracy
<jcastro> it's like, sure, I'd like for my company's email server to be controlled in house, but is my local sysadmin going to even come close to what I can get with gmail or outlook for even close to that price?
<cmaloney> I find that line of thinking depressing
<jrwren> it IS depressing.
<jcastro> nah, it's just economics
<cmaloney> I tihnk it's just opportunity
<cmaloney> since folks are going to get sick of subscriptions
<cmaloney> or they're going to re-evaluate if they need said products
<cmaloney> cuts both ways
<cmaloney> like the reminder for my Linux Journal subscription
<cmaloney> a reminder "do I need that anymore"?
<cmaloney> and then I pay it because I'd like to see the $$ for the article on the Squeezebox that I wrote for them.
<jrwren> ha!
<jrwren> there is terrible.
<cmaloney> I got a SB Touch for review just before Logitech closed the line down so I'm content
<jcastro> I had forgotten about squeezeboxes!
<greg-g> I still use mine :)
<jcastro> I am doing a lot of YouTube Music lately
<jcastro> it's like what MTV used to be
<greg-g> heh
<jcastro> except with recommendations, etc.
<greg-g> is that a service or do you just mean "watching music videos on youtube"?
<jcastro> yeah but it filters out non music
 * greg-g nods
<jcastro> so if you do "metallica" on normal youtube it will also put in other non-music
<jcastro> in youtube music you only get either the music and/or the videos
<jcastro> so it's easier to put on and just let it do it's mix
<greg-g> I'm still listening to somafm stations for work music :)
<jcastro> wow
<jcastro> https://www.shoutcast.com/
<jcastro> I forgot that was still around!
<greg-g> lol, as their main page loads, it says "0 radio stations using our technology", then it finally flips to 72,846
<greg-g> not really that important of a stat to regen each time and show 0 until it does, dudes
<jcastro> hah yeah
<greg-g> lol, second most popular station on their list: Alex Jones - Infowars.com Alternate/Relay
<cmaloney> I used to use my Squeezebox for Smart Mixes
<cmaloney> now I just put the whole collection on random-album
<cmaloney> Will never forgive Spotify for killing The Echo Nest
<cmaloney> I already have a music-buying problem. I don't need to know about more music out there. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-17
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live http://youtu.be/6kgyAidgPmE Episode 200
<cmaloney> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-10
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> how's the day so far?
<rick_h> cmaloney: what was up with the note on sponsoring? you run into it somewhere?
<rick_h> it goes, monday yay
<cmaloney> Yeah, PyOhio mentioned the sponsors page and I wanted to check to see if they'd accepted MUG as a non-profit
<rick_h> oic, /me goes to look
<cmaloney> and noticed some familiar names in the individual sponsors section
<rick_h> yea, figured 10yrs time to fund it some :)
<cmaloney> heh
<rick_h> oh wow, only 7 did the individual eh? I'd have assumed more would.
<cmaloney> I would have but... ;)
<rick_h> yea, I mean I'm sure there's a pool of folks that would love to. I just know many folks there are able to do something.
<cmaloney> Might just leave it at buying a T-Shirt
<rick_h> I need to crank on the talk some more
<rick_h> yea, I did that one year. Just got a shirt for erica
<cmaloney> I've given this one twice but I need to practice it a little more
<cmaloney> giving a talk on Tuesday for MUG
<rick_h> that's nice, one day I need to actually regive a talk lol
<rick_h> refine vs recreate
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Well, I gave it at MUG and then re-used it for Penguicon
<cmaloney> so it should be extra-sharp
<rick_h> nice
<cmaloney> But they moved it to Sunday so it'll be extra-dull by presentation-time. ;)
<rick_h> ah bummer
<rick_h> I seemed to have an ok slot so kind of excited.
<cmaloney> Meh, it happens
<rick_h> not sure if the title/etc has any real draw, but the other talks didn't tickle me at all either
<cmaloney> I think it has some draw
<cmaloney> Oof, you're against the Lumberjack and the Coffeebot talk
<rick_h> ah those going to be big draws?
 * rick_h is out of touch lol
<cmaloney> They got some high marks on the reviews page
<rick_h> cool
<cmaloney> One is about someone going from the lumber industry to becoming a developer
<cmaloney> and the other one is someone's project for monitoring the coffee pot.
<cmaloney> but you'll have at least one person in your talk. :)
<cmaloney> (and no, that's not including you)
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> it'll be all good :)
<rick_h> I'm looking forward to it
<cmaloney> same
<cmaloney> And if you want to practice some talks there's a meeting on the second Tuesday of the month that is looking for talks. :)
<rick_h> hah, I should come down at some point.
<cmaloney> tomorrow I'm muddling through scheme
<cmaloney> and Dr. Bob is talkng about the GNU toolchain
<cmaloney> it'll be interesting
<brousch> You all are always welcome to speak/attend GRPUG, too
<brousch> Usually 6-12 people at the meetings
<cmaloney> Hey now, I thought I was the only one who did the imposing here?
<cmaloney> brousch: I'd love to hang out over at GRPUG sometime though
<brousch> We go to Hopcat or GR Brewing afterwards for dinner and drinks
<cmaloney> Hey, you could come to Royal Oak and replicate that
<cmaloney> RO just got a HopCat
<brousch> I've never been to one of the follow-on hopcats
<brousch> cmaloney: This sounds like something you'd like https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/07/09/0414245/48-year-old-multics-operating-system-resurrected
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeessh
 * cmaloney remembers conversations with folks at Ford who spoke fondly of Multics. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-11
<scary_guy> I remmber a story of them resurrecting an old system from the 80's because some bigwig just HAD to get some important informaiton off it.  So they finally got it working and he couldn't remember his damn password
<_stink__> lulz
<Zimdale> cmaloney: or the like http://www.mug.org/contact-us/ is pretty broken :(
<dzho> missing a closing paren for the board member emeritus at http://www.mug.org/about/ too fwiw while we're here
<cmaloney> Zimdale: Ugh
<cmaloney> Actually that page doesn't exist (contact us)
<cmaloney> Zimdale: Where did you find that link?
<cmaloney> dzho: Fixed. Thanks!
<mrgoodcat> morning
<mrgoodcat> i think my cat just hit my amazon dash button
<mrgoodcat> just got a notification that i ordered tide
<dzho> sounds like a plausible threat model
<cmaloney> Heh
<Zimdale> from this page cmaloney http://www.mug.org/sponsor/
<Zimdale> won't let me contact the board
<cmaloney> Bah
<cmaloney> OK
<cmaloney> Will get that fixed
<cmaloney> Check "About" for contact information
<cmaloney> we moved things around so that's why that page is loose.
<Zimdale> Will everyone be there tonight?
<dzho> I won't.
<dzho> ;-)
<cmaloney> I'll be there
<cmaloney> Zimdale: I re-created the "contact-us" page and moved our contact information there.
<Zimdale> /O/
<cmaloney> Thank you
<scary_guy> @cmaloney ##diulive
<scary_guy> I'll be on the stream in about two hours
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> I'm presenting tonight at MUG. Link at http://mug.org
<greg-g> cmaloney: on what?
<cmaloney> Scheme / Guile / Racket
<cmaloney> greg-g: ^^
<greg-g> oh nice
<greg-g> Old coworker just posted this today: https://usesthis.com/interviews/christopher.allan.webber/  where he talks a lot about Scheme/Guile/GuixSD
<cmaloney> Hah, <3 Christopher
<cmaloney> He's in the #guile channel
<cmaloney> He's also on Mastodon
<_stink__> brousch: i am seeing your stuff from a few years ago about installing kivy on ubuntu 14.04.  any newer advice?
<_stink__> maybe https://github.com/kivy/kivy/issues/2209#issuecomment-121916474 is a good plan
<brousch> I think the doc page is still good
<brousch> Although I really haven't used Linux for 1.5 years
<brousch> Screw pygame
<_stink__> ah ok, i see more details here now
<_stink__> the ppa is no good for 14.04 ergo my confusion
<_stink__> thanks
<cmaloney> brousch: Them's fighting words
<cmaloney> Pygame is still relevant.
<_stink__> round one
<_stink__> FIGHT
<cmaloney>  /lart brousch
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-12
<brousch> Pygame hasn't had a release since what, 2008?
<_stink__> COMBO
<cmaloney> brousch: http://archives.seul.org/pygame/users/Jan-2017/msg00032.html
<cmaloney> 2017 brousch
<cmaloney> Bo-YAH
<_stink__> COUNTERPUNCH
<greg-g> cmaloney: I copy/pasted what you said about your talk and cwebber to cwebber, he replied:
<greg-g> 23:16 < paroneaye> greg-g: :D
<greg-g> 23:16 < paroneaye> <3 cmaloney
<cmaloney> :-D
<cmaloney> greg-g: thank you
<cmaloney> unfortunately we couldn't stream last night
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-13
<Scary_Guy> anyone know of a good terminal that doesn't take over all the keybindings?  currently on xterm, tried a few others, hate them all
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: Not really.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<_stink__> yo
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<_stink__> a cluster
<mrgoodcat> sg sounds like a good candiate for st
<rick_h> _stink__: that good eh?
<cmaloney> _stink__: Sounds awesome
<wolfger> _stink__: That's a good thing, right?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cluster
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-14
<dzho> date -d @1500000000
<dzho> coming up soon
<cmaloney> Happy timestamp thingie
<cmaloney> jrwren: What is this old job / new job thing? :)
<jrwren> old job - Canonical.
<jrwren> new job - spacemonkey
<greg-g> jrwren: still working from home?
<jrwren> yes, I was in SLC M-Th this week, but today I'm back home.
<greg-g> I was wondering about that boating picture
<greg-g> cool
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's awesome!
<cmaloney> Congratulations!
<jrwren> thanks!
<greg-g> Their WP article could use some copy editing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Monkey_%28company%29
<greg-g> "Products 1TB drive" heh
<jrwren> yeah?
<jrwren> that founder, Clint Gordon-Carroll is a really cool guy. Treats people with more kindness and understanding than I've ever seen from any founder type.
<greg-g> awesome, that's great
<greg-g> and by copy editing, I mean, it kind of repeats it's self (the article) and I can't get a good idea of what they actually do :)
<greg-g> just ranting, not about you/the company ;)
<jrwren> cloud storage service... what is to get? :)
<greg-g> congrats ;)
<greg-g> jrwren: how it's different than the 83914 other ones? :P
<jrwren> greg-g: in this case, there is no datacenter, the cloud is not someone elses server, it is all the other spacemonkeys.
<greg-g> ahhh, that's why the comment about peer-to-peer file storage
<jrwren> Yes, and now that they are owned by vivint home security, its a bit different than that description, but still an awesome team.
<jrwren> I'm pretty excited.
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> cool man
<jrwren> I choose this over Khan Academy and Joyent, with whom I was also interviewing.
<greg-g> I don't know much about Joyent, but you made a good choice re Khan
<jrwren> oh yeah?
<jrwren> Why do you say that?
<greg-g> my info is from about 2012, but: grant funded is not a great business model. And I didn't hear similar things about Khan as what you said about Clint
<greg-g> to elaborate: grant funding does weird things to your planning and team expectations
<jrwren> Ah. I see. Well, i know 2 Khan employees and they both love it, so plz consider that it has changed a lot.
<greg-g> ah, cool
<jrwren> They have 2yrs of runway of funds even if they dont' get renewed funds.
<jrwren> whcih is maybe different than it was 5 yrs ago.
<greg-g> oh, totally
<cmaloney> jrwren: Very cool choice. First i've heard of Spacemonkey.
<greg-g> heh, the main/really only contributor to the spacemonekys WP article has only worked on that article, I smell a COI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Steve_the_Tech_Guy ;)
<greg-g> (conflict of interest)
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> (I don't care, no one probably does, it's not pure PR speak)
<jrwren> http://timestamp.online/countdown/1500000000
<cmaloney> Yeah, the moment passed already
<jrwren> it did? oh. i missed it.   oh.. dzho even said so.
<cmaloney> heh
<dzho> even
<dzho> oddly enough
<greg-g> thcipriani: "The isntaller is now overwritting (the partition) with random data..."
<greg-g> er
<greg-g> minus the nick at the beginning, but ^
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> Which installer is this?
<greg-g> the netinst one with nonfree wifi drivers (le sigh)
<greg-g> and, er, Debian Stretch :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-15
<Scary_Guy> so far it seems terminology is working great for what I need
<Scary_Guy> although I hate it because it seems like a bloated hog.  I need more memory :/
<Scary_Guy> did anyone see https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5l39tz/linux_distros_ram_consumption_comparison_updated/ ?
<Scary_Guy> I'm thinking about trashing this install and doing Debian 9 with a lightweight WM https://l3net.wordpress.com/2014/02/15/a-memory-comparison-of-light-linux-desktops-part-3/
<Scary_Guy> I think that's what I'll do tonight is jump to deb9.  bbl
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-09
<cmaloney> Eening
<greg-g> v
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-10
<waldo323> good morning
<waldo323> and happy mug Tuesday
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<notlikethesoup> dealing with very old, very ugly code
<notlikethesoup> so could be better lol
<cmaloney> Whee
<jrwren> sounds fun.
<jrwren> i love cleaning up old crap... when people let me :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-11
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@craigmaloney/100356299892394823
<jrwren> ugh... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/+bug/1744536
<cmaloney> kind of a fitting end, sadly.
<jrwren> ha!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-12
<cmaloney> Good morning, fellow travelers
<cmaloney> how's the morning so far?
<rick_h_> sleepy
<rick_h_> I should not have stayed up so late
<cmaloney> Playing Skyrim?
<rick_h_> a little bit
<rick_h_> but honestly just hung out and didn't go to bed
<rick_h_> that whole "quiet time" at night sucks you in
<cmaloney> I know days like that well
<rick_h_> the boy is in bed, the dogs worn out and napping
<cmaloney> especially when it gets cool out
<rick_h_> just don't want to end the peace and spoil it with sleep
<cmaloney> Naturally
<cmaloney> how's the pupper situation?
<rick_h_> picked up an RC car yesterday and spent some time researching upgrades/mods to do to it :)
<rick_h_> she's good. Vet checked out yesterday and getting glowing reviews from everyone
<cmaloney> Nice!
<rick_h_> just work, and chaos, and work
<cmaloney> re: RC car - batteries or gas?
<rick_h_> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Q1YCQnMUxqvQSTt99
<rick_h_> battery car, got my first lipo battery for it
<cmaloney> nice!
<rick_h_> yea, pretty fun
<rick_h_> I reallyh want to get one of these rock crawler things
<cmaloney> PLanning on bringing that for the vacation?
<rick_h_> https://youtu.be/ZTV_llRm--k?t=539
<rick_h_> Yea, definitely think this is a camping toy to bring
<rick_h_> see if I can get the boy into wrenching/mod'ing the thing
<cmaloney> INdeed
<cmaloney> so, when's the model airplanes? :)
<cmaloney> that's usually the natural progression. ;)
<rick_h_> airplanes scare me. I don't like driving what I can't see
<rick_h_> the drone is hard enough and it has a camera on it and hovers and gps mapping/etc
<cmaloney> Silly Rick, it's not about flying them
<cmaloney> I think JoDee's dad only flew a handful of the ones that he built
<cmaloney> But yeah, learning how RC cars work is pretty sweet. And yeah, the modding stuff is fascinating
<cmaloney> I had one of those cheap RC cars from Radio Shack and still had a lot of fun with it
<cmaloney> until the antenna broke on the transmitter and I couldn't manage to get it to work right ever again
<cmaloney> Photos from PyOhio 2017 are up: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepirnat/sets/72157693157734770
<brousch> The back of my head made it into several pictures!
<rick_h_> I like this one https://flic.kr/p/26igqg9
<rick_h_> :P
<cmaloney> I like that one too
<cmaloney> https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepirnat/29484723998/in/photostream/ < this one is where I tell everyone there's no Santa Claus
<cmaloney> https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepirnat/28485434767/in/photostream/ <- THis is where I drop the beat
<greg-g> also tired this morning. I accidentaly had non-decaf yesterday (forgot to say decaf on my iced latte). Was up until about 3am. :/
<rick_h_> :)
<cmaloney> I like this one as well: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikepirnat/28484404027/
<brousch> So fancy!
<widox_>  morning
<greg-g> rick_h_: I got this for Rowan this xmas. It's awesome and fun: https://www.horizonhobby.com/ruckus-1-18-4wd-monster-truck--black-red-rtr-ecx01000t1
<widox_> wow, rick_h_ dressing up!
<rick_h_> working on my marketing :P
<rick_h_> "the fish was thiiiiis biiiiiig"
<greg-g> rick_h_: and my dad got him this plane, which is even more awesome because it can correct itself mid-flight if you push a button, and the controller has 3 levels, beginner/inter/advanced which has increasing degrees of freedom (aka: beginner won't let you stall out): https://www.horizonhobby.com/product/airplanes/learn-to-fly-on-my-own/trainer/sport-cub-s-rtf-with-safe-reg%3B-technology-hbz4400
<rick_h_> greg-g: oooooh
<cmaloney> greg-g: nice
<greg-g> both great intro to the hobby choices, if I may say so myself :)
<greg-g> (my dad has something like 4 RC planes)
<cmaloney> I think they're like cats
<rick_h_> we picked up this thing yesterday https://traxxas.com/products/models/electric/58024slash
<cmaloney> (as a crazy cat lady at the cat practice explained it)
<cmaloney> it goes something like 1, 2, all
<greg-g> cmaloney: :) :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: let me know when you've taken it mostly apart (drivetrain and all) the first time, and if you get it back together OK :P I did some in-hobby-shop wrenching with the boy for our first repair, walking up to the counter with the truck a couple times "uhhh, I'm confused by this" :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, I was looking last night at the low CG body you can get and seems fun to take it kinda-apart to get it updated
<greg-g> not having all the right tools from the outset was a mistake (mostly tiny size wrench and alan wrench)
<brousch> Now you'll need a 3d printer to design and make your own parts
<rick_h_> yea, I saw the little kits and laughed "I have all the tools!" and then saw some YT video mentioning a 1.5mm hex and went...oh hmmmm
<greg-g> brousch: once I have a freaking hobby/tool corner in some building that's the... third? thing I'm getting (after a real upright toolbox and a good work table)
 * greg-g dreams of midwest house/basement/backyard/garage sizes
<greg-g> stupid most expensive place in the world
<brousch> The problem becomes balancing your 3d printing hobby with the hobby you are using it for
<rick_h_> greg-g: hah, it's still not big enough!
<rick_h_> I need my shed out back...mini-pole barn
<greg-g> Have I told you lately that the bay area is stupid? :P I'm so wishing for a crash soon (sorry for any fallout! ;) )
<rick_h_> hah, I just finally have equity!
<rick_h_> don't take it away from me
<rick_h_> it's funding my bathroom remodel
<greg-g> oh, in other fun news: I may have convinced my wife that we need an f-250/some 3/4 ton truck to do our travel plans (20ish foot trailer plus slide in truck camper as a mobile office). The numbers were pretty tight, payload wise, with a halfton truck
<brousch> And my roof repairs!
<rick_h_> greg-g: +100
<rick_h_> greg-g: too many folks squeeze a half ton into that work vs doing it with some buffer
 * greg-g has a spreadsheet, of course
<rick_h_> greg-g: did you look at vans?
<rick_h_> greg-g: I am seeing a lot of folks with smaller trailers going the van route to have more cargo space enclosed/etc and seems to be a sweet setup
<cmaloney> We had a van when my parents did camping. it was quite nice
<cmaloney> but we were also limited on the trailer size we could have because of where it was stored (side of my parents house isn't that long  / wide)
<greg-g> yeah, considering that as well, but those are $$$ and not quickly converterable to having a work area (table+chair/bench that I can sit at with my kinesis and laptop, mostly) unless you throw more money at it. We can find an old f-250 for around $5k. The cost difference will more than pay for the gas consumption difference :)
<rick_h_> yea, and since small trailers are horrible for storage space it seems great to have room for the bins for tools/water stuff/etc
<rick_h_> greg-g: gotcha, yea all depends on requirements/what you can get for sure
<cmaloney> just be careful with trucks. SOme of them have had rather tough lives pulling stumps and what-not
<rick_h_> hey, I've only pulled one stump out with mine :P
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> I'm surprised it didn't put out robotic arms and just dig it out
<cmaloney> seems like it would be an option on that model
<rick_h_> hey, I've got an old paid off truck now
<rick_h_> none of this fancy "adaptive cruise control" or "self parking assist" crap :P
<rick_h_> though I do want to see what it would take to get a new head unit that does android auto on it
<rick_h_> I still haven't gotten my 2018 map update to install...and it's july
<rick_h_> greg-g: that plane looks so cool
<rick_h_> maybe I do need a rock crawler and a plane...and maybe a helicoptor
 * rick_h_ wonders if I can get the wife to agree to add addition to the house for an RC garage
<greg-g> :) :) :)
<greg-g> rick_h_: it's a cool ass trainer
<rick_h_> yea, that video is cool with the different modes/etc on it
<rick_h_> I'm just cheering it on "do a barrel roll!"
<cmaloney> rick_h_: What happened to the white beast?
 * cmaloney is really behind in his knowledge of rick_h_
<cmaloney> Apparently Guido is stepping down as BDFL
<rick_h_> yea, that's kind of big
<rick_h_> will be curious how that moves forward
<cmaloney> same
<brousch> So he died?
<rick_h_> no, he just got tired
<brousch> But for life!
<greg-g> 1https://www.mail-archive.com/python-committers@python.org/msg05628.html
<greg-g> -1
<waldo323> BDFL doesn't say whose life, could mean life span of time as BD I guess?
<jrwren> python has good stewards.
<cmaloney> Yeah, this shouldn't be worrying
<cmaloney> more worrisome is that Guido is burning out
<jrwren> i think he's been that way for a while.
<jrwren> extending 2.7 support for 5 additional years was the first sign of giving up.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-13
<cmaloney> EVening
<cmaloney> GOod morning
<notlikethesoup> hello
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> Yawn
<cmaloney>  That good, eh?
<brousch> You all inspired me to get our remote control cars and drones out last night. Nost of them had bad batteries
<rick_h_> almost usable! https://photos.app.goo.gl/z5h3oxZzm6i3y1Y17
<rick_h_> brousch: hah, yea my neighbor I guess got the same car we did a couple of years ago
<rick_h_> and couldn't come out and play I guess his lipo battery swelled up and is ruined
<cmaloney> Hey cool, your bathroom has a climbing wall!
<rick_h_> lol
<cmaloney> Is there a lip between the toilet / sink area and the shower area?
<rick_h_> not a lip there, but a glass door wall is getting installed on monday
<cmaloney> Reason I say that is our tub gets backed up over time so being aware of where the water is can be helpful
<cmaloney> so you're not impromptu-swabbing the bathroom
<rick_h_> ah so that section of the floor is flat but tapered down to the drain in the shower
<cmaloney> right
<cmaloney> we had showers like that at Hope, and they had a trough for where the water could go
<brousch> Don't show that photo to my wife. She really wants a new bathroom
<cmaloney> and the drain was in the trough area
<cmaloney> so the water had somehwere lower to go
<cmaloney> That is impressive though. Really like the layout of the bathroom
<cmaloney> and the color scheme
<rick_h_> cool, thanks. Lots of work and $$ but coming together
<brousch> $$ means $99, right?
<brousch> Or is that the number of zeroes in the value?
<rick_h_> yea, just a bunch of $99 bills
<rick_h_> you have to decide do you want a new car? Or do you want your bathroom to be the nicest room in your house
<greg-g> uh, a vacation :)
<cmaloney> You can vacation in the bathroom
<cmaloney> again: climbing wall
<greg-g> I just opened the photo, yeah, that'd be hella fun for a little kid (maybe not climbing but playing in the shower with GI Joes/whatever
<cmaloney> Pretty sure this house would be the only reason I would move to Texas
<jrwren> docs... but not API docs... WTF?!?!  https://scapy.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-14
<Scary_Guy> Today from 3-7 I'm guesting on http://detroitindustrial.org if you're interested.
<cmaloney> Nice
<greg-g> I hate getting sick in the weekend.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that sucks. :(
<cmaloney> greg-g: I take it you're experiencing this first-hand?
<greg-g> Yeah. Horrible migraine and body ache last night. Body ache continues with a middle grade headache today. Fever of 100ish.
<cmaloney> ugh
<cmaloney> Hope you feel better soon
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-15
<cmaloney> https://devnull-as-a-service.com/
<_stink_> gahaha
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-11
<rick_h__> wheee]
<cmaloney> That good eh?
<rick_h__> Been a bit of a week
<cmaloney> What happened?
<cmaloney> https://9to5google.com/2019/07/11/google-shoelace/
<rick_h__> meh, all the security hubbub has been a bit fun. Take that with the other two managers are out on holiday for the month of July and I'm trying to get ready for our own family trip next week and wheeeee
 * rick_h__ tries out weechat for the first time
<cmaloney> weechat is nice. LMK if you would like a guided tour
<ubuntu1> wheee, back in a terminal again
<ubuntu1> hmm
<rick_h_> yay
<rick_h_> now me
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> SO YOU'RE UBUNTU ONE!
<cmaloney> I KNEW IT!
<rick_h_> bwuhahahaha
<jrwren> hows that couchdb?
<rick_h_> hah, about as good as that mongodb?
<jrwren> ha!
<rick_h_> hmmm, can't figure out how to add the private canonical irc to here though...
<rick_h_> "irc: reading data on socket: error 2 (connection closed by peer)" well that's helpful
<cmaloney> Wonder if that's SSL issue
<rick_h_> probably, fun stuff
<rick_h_> password problem, my bad
<cmaloney> Easy fixes are still welcome.
<rick_h__> cmaloney: so how do you change the active server so when I try to identify with freenode it doesn't go to the canonical server?
<cmaloney> move to window 1 and hit ctrl-X to swap servers
<rick_h> there we go
<jrwren> just like irssi!
<rick_h> back in action
<cmaloney> though you can also auto-set that
<rick_h> yea, I did but after reconnecting it auth'd me but just show this channel as a buffer
<rick_h> I had to rerun the join command
<cmaloney> they tell you not to edit the irc.conf file directly, and in some cases that's correct
<cmaloney> but in a lot of cases it's easier to get things in there than find the command sequence to get it where you want
<rick_h> ok, closed irccloud
<rick_h> let's do this
<cmaloney> <3
<rick_h> hah, and twitter goes boom
<cmaloney> Because you joined IRC with weechat?
<rick_h> I don't think the two are related heh
<rick_h> but it is funny I get one working, go to reply in twitter and that goes boom
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> https://i.imgflip.com/35flbn.jpg
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-12
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/@Mainebot/102425762018887855
<greg-g> new kinesis day
<greg-g> I couldn't fix the old one, it would keep going into "keypad" (number pad layer on the right side) uncontrollably, and I couldn't get out of it reliably.
<cmaloney> woo woo
<greg-g> but they got rid of the built in usb hub in the advantage2 :(
<greg-g> had to rummage to find my old usb hub to make my setup work again
<greg-g> WAT
<greg-g> The Advantage2 contains a virtual flash drive named âAdvantage2â where the keyboardâs layout files (qwerty.txt and dvorak.txt), settings (state.txt) and SmartSet App are stored.
<cmaloney> That's awesome and scary
<Scary_Guy> I love Weechat.  /scripts and /iset are your friends.
<Scary_Guy> Sorry, /script
<widox> rick_h: I can't believe you strayed from a cli client in the first place! :)
 * widox also uses weechat
<cmaloney> \m/
<rick_h> widox:  mobile phone client ftw
<cmaloney> ssh to irc bouncer FTW
<widox> :D
<jayis> The Lounge ftw https://thelounge.chat/
<zarozombie> rapberypi, tmux, and irssi ftw :D
<jrwren> gotta love irssi and old stupid scripts for it.
<jrwren> GOTTA LOVE LLO IRSSI AND OLD WTF STUPOD SCRIPTS FOR IZ ???!!!??????!!!!!!!!!!!!????????Ã
<jrwren> 60774 10v3 |r55| 4Nd 01D 57Up|D 5(R|p75 f0r |7.
<jrwren> gotta love irssi and old stupid scripts for it.
<cmaloney> are you done yet? :)
<jrwren> i could do more
<zarozombie> lol
<cmaloney> yeah, because a) selling point, and b) it's important to figure out which one is going to get picked
<jrwren> I found how to check waht I'm currently using... SBC
<cmaloney> never mind that for a $20-$50 speaker the codec is the least of your worries
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> SBC reminds me of a phone company that later became Ameritech
<jrwren> well, you'd think... but someone mentioned that when they play audio books,their BT speaker lasts twice as long as when they play pandora. My theory was it was computation differences of the compression.
<jrwren> now I went down a rabit hole.
<jrwren> sometimes I still see the SBC utility boxes
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, Pandora is likely AAC streams as well
<cmaloney> Wonder what happens if you stream soma.fm's AAC stream
<cmaloney> http://ice2.somafm.com/defcon-128-aac
<cmaloney> if that'll bump to AAC then
<jrwren> well it wasn't me, and I don't pandora, so I don't know.
<cmaloney> ANSWER THE QUESTION DAMMIT! :)
<jrwren> lol
<greg-g> jayis: thelounge looks nice. I use weechat+glowingbear right now, but thelounge looks nice, it even has LDAP support
<cmaloney> glowingbear?
<cmaloney> https://github.com/glowing-bear/glowing-bear Ah, interesting
<greg-g> yeah, that
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-07
<Scary_Guy> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~jmcm/omron/pics.html
<cmaloney> I'm not familair with that one. Looks pretty cool.
<jrwren> i forgot about the 88000 CPU
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-08
<jrwren> interesting. https://www.suse.com/c/news/suse-acquires-rancher/
<greg-g> I appreciate that this channel still has a good amount of members even though irccloud is down :)
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'm in the Penguicon channel and they're at half
<greg-g> wikimedia channels are lacking a ton, most staff use irccloud to connect. You can see who the real nerds are today :)
<greg-g> (we have an org account with them, I believe)
<cmaloney> Honestly I'm sure it's because IRC via the phone is kinda brutal
<cmaloney> But I'll bet money that a lot of nanodes on Linode are getting spun up as we speak
<jrwren> ha!
<greg-g> or people are sharing out their znc creds? :)
<jrwren> doesn't anyone download xchat or mirc anymore?
<cmaloney> xchat hasn't been updated since 2010
<greg-g> I have one person in my teams who uses xchat I think
<cmaloney> it's Hexchat now
<greg-g> ok, whatever it is now :)
<greg-g> but he's only on when he's active/awake. It's kind of annoying, honestly ;)
<cmaloney> I had to find that out today as well because I don't use it.
<cmaloney> greg-g: The manager in you wants Slack. ;)
<cmaloney> "Override Do Not Disturb, my minions!"
<greg-g> cmaloney: there is a internal divide within wikimedia re slack/irc :(
<greg-g> the new CTO almost made a decree to get all of Technology on Slack, but, it only half worked. Now everyone has accounts but still use IRC primarily. Only Tech management is there consistently.
<cmaloney> Slack is an abomination.
<greg-g> we have a community to communicate with, so yeah
<cmaloney> But there is weeslack which mostly works.
<greg-g> for weechat?
<cmaloney> gitter isn't horrible but it's not great
<cmaloney> Yeah
 * greg-g nods
<cmaloney> I use it for one slack "server"
<greg-g> I just have a slack tab pinned :/
<cmaloney> Check out weeslack. You might be impressed with it
<jrwren> greg-g: mattermost is best of both worlds IMO.
<cmaloney> I'm not sure I would use it for more than one Slack server
<greg-g> jrwren: have you tried matrix?
<cmaloney> it also requires an "app" on the server
<greg-g> I haven't tried mattermost
<jrwren> i've not used matrix.
<cmaloney> Framasoft uses Mattermost iirc
<cmaloney> it's... OK
<greg-g> Mozilla went with Matrix for staff+community (and Slack for staff-only) so many just use Matrix as their one client.
<jrwren> i only know mattermost has a great slack-like client and easy run server to host yourself, for security reasons.
<cmaloney> kinda clunky
<jrwren> i trust moz, if they did it, i'm sure it is good.
<greg-g> yeah, the guy who ran it is good, too. @mhoye@mastodon.social
<cmaloney> Honestly I think I'd give Matrix a shot over Telegram
<cmaloney> I don't trust Telegram, in part because they don't support Google Voice phone numbers
<cmaloney> and because they just have an air of hinky to them
<greg-g> yeah, we use Telegram as our "here's a fun photo of what I'm doing right now" thing. It's "real" use is when we're in-person and are coordinating dinners/etc. Oh I miss those days. in-person offsites :/
<jrwren> the experience of telegram is different enough that I don't even categorize it as the same.
<jrwren> not sure why.
<greg-g> same, really
<cmaloney> Is it in the same breath as Signal with Group Chat, or something else?
<jrwren> that is teh quesiton and I don't nkow the answer.
<jrwren> also... i'm a poor typer
<cmaloney> I've only used Signal
<jrwren> apparently everyone should be using signal for messaging instead of SMS, for everything, but I can't seem to get people to adopt it.
<cmaloney> I can't get some folks on this planet to stop using SMS.
<cmaloney> Though the alternatives I offer aren't that great
<cmaloney> Signal is the least-bad of them
<jrwren> signal still requires a phone number, right? that is kind of a bummer.
<cmaloney> I want Jami to work but it's kind of janky
<jrwren> never heard of that one.
<cmaloney> It's a peer-to-peer encrypted messaging platform
<greg-g> heh, signal is for the random kids' friends' parents in my world. Carrie and I use FB messenger :/
<cmaloney> greg-g: We still use Hangouts
<jrwren> i refuse FB
<cmaloney> https://jami.net/
<jrwren> > host facebook.com
<jrwren> facebook.com has address 192.168.15.101
<cmaloney> Mine has a lot of fb stuff routed to localhost
<cmaloney> my username on Jami is craigmaloney
<jrwren> cmaloney: I was routing to localhost, but i changed to my home server with a virtual host which responds with "This site has been blocked by the network administrator."
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> Nice
<jrwren> TIL: br encoding is only enabled in https
<jrwren> or maybe I relearned it. I think i once knew and forgot.
<jrwren> ha! saw a mass irc-cloud rejoin. i see what you mean now
<cmaloney> https://jitsi.decafbad.net/CoffeeHouseCodersRoyalOak
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-09
<jrwren> what language is this? https://mt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il-PaÄ¡na_prinÄipali
<cmaloney> Maltese according to the language code
<jrwren> https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2020/06/announcing-general-availability-kernel-live-patching-amazon-linux-2/  kinda great that it is free.
<jrwren> last i checked canonical was charging for that feature for ubuntu
<jrwren> this looks cool https://web.trango.io
<Scary_Guy> <.<
<Scary_Guy> >.>
<Scary_Guy> There was an outage somewhere?
<Scary_Guy> Signal would be great if they'd fix the glitches.  Other than that it works fine and is my primary encrypted instant messaging solution.
<cmaloney> https://externals.io/message/110907
<cmaloney> "We are committed to maintaining development and building of PHP on Windows for 7.2, 7.3 and 7.4 as long as they are officially supported. We are not, however, going to be supporting PHP for Windows in any capacity for version 8.0 and beyond."
<jrwren> that is actually a little surprising given the push MSFT had for PHP on windows, but I guess that was 10yrs ago.
<cmaloney> Hoestly I wonder how much of this will get pushed to WSL
<cmaloney> since it means less effort to get running
<jrwren> that is exaclty what.
<jrwren> but WSL isn't for production.
<jrwren> 10yrs ago they were touting PHP on IIS as "faster than PHP on Linux Apache" and for production use.
<jrwren> they must have finally wised up that there isn't demand for that
<cmaloney> I know one of the folsk who comes to CHC is using Windows with C# for web stuff
<cmaloney> and it boggles my mind
<jrwren> ASP.NET is great.
<jrwren> really great.
<cmaloney> Outside of that whole Microsoft thing. ;)
<jrwren> open source, runs on linux, it is really no diff than java or Go.
<jrwren> or Dart
<jrwren> or Swift
<jrwren> 'cept oracle is far more evil with java
<jrwren> actually, it isn't even microsoft thse days. it is owned by the dot net foundation. microsoft just happens to be hte largest contributor AFAIK
<cmaloney> Honestly I'm more likely to write C# than Java
<cmaloney> Oracle can find a dumpster to burn in for all i care
<cmaloney> Dart doesn't excite me and I don't have anything Apple so Swift is right out
<jrwren> well, swift runs on linux now too.
<jrwren> and there are web frameworks.
<cmaloney> is there any reason to use Swift if you're not targeting Apple products?
<cmaloney> That's kind of like getting RPL working on your Linux machine. Unless you're an HP graphing calculator it's not going to have the same effect.
<jrwren> yeah, no reason. it is a lot like using PHP on Windows :)
<jrwren> I mean... why use any langauge... familiarity? So if you already know swift, it sure would be nice to write webservers in it too.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I mean, that's why we have server-side JavaScript
<jrwren> Swift is a lot like C# from a language POV, but no IL no GC, so potentially even faster.
<cmaloney> which is proof that we'll stick anything into a light socket
<jrwren> exactly, ugh, nodejs :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-10
<jrwren> rick_h needs this. https://blog.sulami.xyz/posts/atreus/
<greg-g> hah, that just came across my team's backchannel, well, the keyboard, not that review
<greg-g> (oh, the blog/review actually did, I just missed it)
<Scary_Guy> I kind of like this one https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/
<Scary_Guy> But I have my heart set on this one https://falba.tech/custom-redox/?v=7516fd43adaa
<cmaloney> Y'all and your split keyboards
<Scary_Guy> I mean, the thumb cluster would really help with Emacs pinky though.  Right now I'm using foot pedals to do that.
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's really not selling me on using Emacs anytime soon. ;)
<Scary_Guy> DirEd is what sold me
<Scary_Guy> Nothing is better for renaming batches of music
<Scary_Guy> Except maybe MusicBrainz if you set it up right
<jrwren> kind of interesting: https://openusage.org
<Scary_Guy> They should list QMK firmware on there too https://qmk.fm
<Scary_Guy> Though that just makes me think of that one XKCD.  https://xkcd.com/927/
<Scary_Guy> Though I don't see too many organizations fighting for open source as a bad thing.
<greg-g> kinesis for life, here
