#ubuntu-us-oh 2011-03-28
<dmcglone> Hello
<dmcglone> Finally a few moments of quiet and peace :-)
<canthus13> paultag: How the fuck does internet go out for *3* weeks?
<canthus13> (Other than not paying the bill...)
<paultag> canthus13: well we paid
<paultag> canthus13: but he went to Germany, and had to cancel the plan. They cut off the net that day (Time-W)
<paultag> canthus13: they then had to come and get the stuff before anything else (us getting it transfered)
<paultag> canthus13: which took a week
<paultag> canthus13: then they let us create an account with them, and set up a time to come
<paultag> canthus13: they then decided our order was stupid and sent an *EMAIL* (to kids without internet) saying that they were not comming
<paultag> canthus13: they then re-set the time for a week after, 3 week of no internet
<canthus13> awesome.
 * canthus13 doesn't get crap like that.
<paultag> it's so shitty
<canthus13> Why troll your customers like that? It makes them go to other ISPs.
<canthus13> That's how we get AT&T customers by the droves.
<paultag> +1
<canthus13> Internet is easy to get up and running.. I can see telephone taking that long thanks to FCC regulations causing month-long snags, but internet doesn't have any regulatory issues to worry about.
<Cheri703> google sketchup is super annoying
<Unit193> Cheri703: That's great! (very bad lag? ;) )
<Cheri703> heh
<Cheri703> yeah
<Unit193> (had to read-up :/ )
<Unit193> SSH can be funny like he said
<Unit193> I have one that has it installed just fine, but it randomly can't connect
<canthus13> Unit193: Is sshd running on the machine you can't connect to when it's not working? (Or can you even check?)
<Unit193> canthus13: Yeah, I can connect from one computer, but not another for a bit
<canthus13> Huh. Weird.
<canthus13> I wonder if it could be a NIC driver issue....
<Unit193> Yeah, big pain too
<canthus13> sshd should have no problem handling several simultaneous connections.  Most of my machines have 2 or 3 incoming connections to them. (At minimum, I have htop on one screen and bash on another for each machine)
<Unit193> It does work with two (after a little time)
<Unit193> I just don't get it...
 * canthus13 has never seen that happen.
<canthus13> see if there's anything in the auth logs.
 * Unit193 uses a keyfile
<canthus13> or debug... or dmesg...
<Unit193> auth has (a long) |grep ssh
 * Unit193 is an idiot...
<Unit193> Forgot to say you also can't ping or anything else to that computer when it does this
<Unit193> Sorry about that canthus13
<Unit193> Hello SkrappJaw!
<Cheri703> hola SkrappJaw
<SkrappJaw> hey
<SkrappJaw> whats up?
<Cheri703> nm, watching stargate sg1, on season 1 episode 2 :)
<SkrappJaw> cool
<Unit193> Looking up some Asgard ships to name computers...
<canthus13> Unit193: Got a spare NIC you can try?
<SkrappJaw>  Cheri793: Did you get my e-mail
<Cheri703> also playing pandemic 2
<Cheri703> yeah, is that wood st cafe?
<SkrappJaw> yea
<Unit193> canthus13: Not wireless (I have a USB Lan card...)
<SkrappJaw> It's just called Wood St now though
<Cheri703> ah, k
<Unit193> canthus13: I think that's all I got...
<Cheri703> as of this moment, barring unforeseen circumstances, I think we are going to try to make it
<SkrappJaw> w00t
<canthus13> Unit193: ah. Wireless... Could be a wireless driver issue. I've had networking freezes with both my broadcom 4312 and my atheros chipsets.
<SkrappJaw> I'll also be playing by myself ( probably acoustic ) on the next Thursday. But I do believe you should come hear the full band. :)
<canthus13> Unit193: What distro are you using on the machine?
<Unit193> canthus13: This is the same computer that randomly looses USB (wasn't it?) but this is another issue
<Unit193> canthus13: Lubuntu
<canthus13> k.  Maverick?
<Cheri703> that's cool
<Unit193> canthus13: Yeah
<canthus13> And the randomly losing USB could be a symptom of a larger problem.
<canthus13> chipset problems in particular.
<Unit193> I'll have to remember if other devices work when the wireless is killed...
<SkrappJaw> They are advertising my solo gig as "Skrapp Jaw". I'm pretty stoked
<Cheri703> :)
<canthus13> Unit193: My wireless freeze issues started with maverick...
 * BiosElement yawns
<BiosElement> Hmm
<Unit193> Hmm?
<BiosElement> Heh, just working on poking paypal buttons, I swear I hate them. >.<
<BiosElement> If anyone would like to support my f/oss game engine project, donations for server costs would be super helpful. http://cubecreate.com/donate </advert>
<Unit193> The project seems to be going mostly well (pre-alpha and all)
 * Unit193 is still planning on trying it when it does come out
<BiosElement> Awesome Unit193. Yeah, it's going mostly well, assuming we make it over the hurdle of a first release. Most projects die before then, so we'll see.
 * SkrappJaw is lurking
<thafreak> Morning Ohio
<thafreak> Ok which one of you anti-oracle jokers went and hacked mysql.com with the sql injection attack?
<Derath-Srvr> You mean that wasn't you?
<paultag> haha
<paultag> I lol'd so hard
<Derath-Srvr> Paul, got a new toy :)
<Derath-Srvr> paultag
<paultag> Derath-Srvr: woo!!
<paultag> Derath-Srvr: what did you get?
<Derath-Srvr> Finally picked up an Evo! WOOHOO! Now I just need to figure out how to emulate the alt-key so I can use irssi lol
<Derath-Srvr> I found an IME that can do Controls easy enough, but I can't figure out how to use Alts so I can switch between chats in Irssi
<Derath-Srvr> Also using ConnectBot for the terminal connection home...
<paultag> wooo :)
<Unit193> Cheri703: What type of CPU were you looking for again?
<Cheri703> socket 775, above 2.8ghz if possible
<Unit193> Cheri703: http://ark.intel.com/search.aspx?t=SPECCode&q=SL94R (Date on CPU: 05) and http://ark.intel.com/search.aspx?q=SL8CP (Date: 04)
<Cheri703> how much for the 3.0?
<Unit193> I dunno... (would like to know for sure that it works, doesn't look the best)
<Cheri703> ok, we could try it
<Unit193> Ah! it's just thermal paste badly plastered to it!
<Cheri703> ah, k
<Cheri703> alcohol wipes!
<Unit193> Too bad it won't work in mine ;)
<Cheri703> heh, yeah
<Unit193> Next U-H I'll bring it (if I remember)
<Cheri703> kk, awesome :)
<Unit193> I just found: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27548 So now I have a P1, P2, P3, P4 (7), Pentium D (2), Celeron, Athlon 64 and random PPCs too (I think I may have some CPUs that are in dead laptops)
#ubuntu-us-oh 2011-03-29
<Cheri703> heh, quite a collection!
<Unit193> Cheri703: Busy?
<Cheri703> nah
<Cheri703> wht's up?
<Cheri703> *what's
<Unit193> PM
 * canthus13 has an 8088 somewhere...
<canthus13> And a 486.
<dmcglone> Hey
<Unit193> Hello dmcglone!
<Unit193> canthus13: or The person that knows all: What are the chances of using the P3 in the Celeron compy? (same socket, diff FSB :( )
<dmcglone> Hi Unit193
<dmcglone> anyone familiar with karaoke players for linux besides pykaraoke?
<Unit193> dmcglone: apt-cache gave me performous and xmms2-plugin-karaoke
<dmcglone> I tried xmms2 it's smaller than a mouse
<dmcglone> couldn't even read the fonts
<dmcglone> I've got 120,000 karaoke songs and pykaraoke keeps choking when I try to scan the directory
<dmcglone> but I put pykaraoke on my brother's XP box and it scanned all the songs just fine. go figure!
<Unit193> Would performous do it?
<dmcglone> haven't heard of it
<Unit193> Nor have I :D
<dmcglone> ah I took a look at that, it's for gaming
<dmcglone> pykaraoke works great, it allows you to assign the the name of the person who's singing the song in a playlist. but dang it just keeps choking when trying to scan the directories :-(
<Unit193> dmcglone: You have 0.7.3?
<dmcglone> yeah
<dmcglone> 0.7.3 was supposed to remedy some sort of problem similiar to this
<Unit193> Does it give any errors? (I have never used this)
<dmcglone> no, it just freezes indefinately
<dmcglone> the scan never finishes to the directory is never added to the database for searching
<dmcglone> I've been adding 1 directory at a time and it's working a little
<Cheri703> maybe you just need less karaoke...
<Unit193> This about sum it up? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pykaraoke/+bug/670099
<dmcglone> LOL Cheri703
<dmcglone> I need more, I want to start doing karaoke on the weekends
<dmcglone> for a little extra money
<Unit193> I think you may have more karaoke then I have any songs...
<dmcglone> I got them from a Karaoke DJ
<dmcglone> that bug report says it didn't happen with the 0.7.2 release, maybe I should try that release
<dmcglone> BRB
<dmcglone> I downloaded the program in zip format and see if that makes a difference instead of using synaptic
<dmcglone> I think my persistence is about to pay off :-)
<dmcglone> this is taking forever! I'm afraid it's gonna poop out on me
<Cheri703> blurgh
<dmcglone> as I suspected it pooped at the last minute
<dmcglone> brb
<dmcglone> so much for that
<canthus13> Unit193: It would really depend on the motherboard and processor.  Some can tolerate different bus speeds, some can't.
<thafreak> Morning Ohio
<thafreak> hey, who's the cinci lead...and does anyone remember that guy from PBS in cinci?
<thafreak> paultag: didn't you have that PBS guy's contact info?
<djoe> thafreak: nlawson
<djoe> at least, that's what it looks like after some quick-and-dirty grepping of the logs
<thafreak> cool, I'll go search the mailing lists for his email address then...I remember a few emails coming through from him...
<paultag> thafreak: yeah, need it?
<thafreak> paultag: sure, thanks
<thafreak> paultag: so just pickles for synnamon eh?
<paultag> thafreak: yeah, it's a bit lame -- but it's a controlled size, and it's only accessed by a single process at once :)
<thafreak> not lame...
<thafreak> why not a shelf though...?
<paultag> thafreak: well there's a simple reason that I'd not used that
<paultag> thafreak: I've never heard of it
<thafreak> I kinda figured you'd use something that just ships with python...just wasn't sure if you went the sqlite route or not
<thafreak> nice...
<paultag> thafreak: well, I'm trying to keep deps down as far as I can
<thafreak> as of 2.5 or 2.6 (i forget) sqlite is built in
<paultag> thafreak: I have support for bleeding edge 2.6 and 3.x
<paultag> thafreak: well then I'll have to fix that :)
<thafreak> but honestly, a shelf will be fine...just not when it comes to searching :)
<paultag> thafreak: well lucky we don't have to search :)
<paultag> and O(n) search on 2000 entries (huge number of packages) is nada
<paultag> I'd eat that
<thafreak> so do you only keep track of packages already installed? no apt style sources to keep updating?
<paultag> thafreak: not yet
<paultag> thafreak: that might be added on top -- remember, this is more like dpkg then apt
<thafreak> might I suggest something called whoosh...(or maybe it was woosh)
<thafreak> gotcha
<paultag> oh interesting
<paultag> http://whoosh.ca/
<thafreak> well, look at whoosh when the time comes, pure python full text search
<paultag> looks cool
<thafreak> yeah
<thafreak> not as fast as like xapian, but no external deps
<thafreak> and for something like a package manager, I don't think the speed difference will matter
<thafreak> now, indexing wikipedia...maybe xapian would be a better choice...or lucene (cept I hate java apps)
<thafreak> so, are the packages that get installed a special like package.syn, or do you just use plain tarballs ala slackware
<oda> paultag, http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8198/1293247163284.png
<paultag> oda: old as all hell
<paultag> oda: that was made by a vmware hacker, he put it on his door
<paultag> oda: that was 2008, mid-year-ish
<oda> paultag, old for you, new for me
<paultag> :P
<oda> paultag, oh and are you a bi-winner?
<paultag> oda: I'm a mono-winner
<oda> paultag, well then is your brain from another terrestrial realm?
<paultag> oda: if one could consider italy another terrestrial realm, then yes
<paultag> which I guess it is
<oda> paultag is from italy?
<oda> funny, I thought you came from a land down under.
<paultag> oda: you've not noticed that I can hardly speak english, yes?
<oda> You know..where women glow and men plunder?
<oda> paultag, obvious troll is obvious
<paultag> hehehe
<paultag> oda: how've you been , jabroi?
<paultag> jabroni *
<oda> Man, you can't even speak italian either
<paultag> narp
<paultag> nur Deutsch
<oda> paultag, well, just been bi-winning
<oda> lol actually getting ready to move soon
<paultag> no shit
<paultag> again?
<oda> yeah
<oda> this time it's worth it
<paultag> sweet
<paultag> back with your dad?
<oda> florida sucks but atleast I won't live with my dad's parents
<paultag> truf
<oda> http://i.imgur.com/Cl9Eu.jpg
<oda> paultag, http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4271/1293710988905.jpg
<djoe> I took a tape deck like that apart when I was a kid
<djoe> never got it back together
<oda> djoe, I took an HP laptop apart one time. It makes a nice doorstop now
<thafreak> I took a door stop apart one time...now it makes a decent laptop...
<oda> What's the officer, problem?
<oda> Maverick Meerkat no like eee 1005
#ubuntu-us-oh 2011-03-30
<Cheri703> http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2011/03/29/how-fast-is-the-internet-at-google-mind-blowing/
<canthus13> Neat.  I'm happy enough with mine. :)
<Unit193> I like the last line
<Cheri703> yeah
<Unit193> I would even take 300+KByte/s
 * canthus13 gets ~3.6MByte/sec max.
<Unit193> Curse you...
<canthus13> Unit193: I only pay 15 bucks a month for it, too. :)
<canthus13> As punishment, I have to support the general public for internet issues.
<rrittenhouse> I think it seems a little irresponsible to give someone that much bandwidth (referring to google article)
<rrittenhouse> haha
<canthus13> rrittenhouse: Most people couldn't bring to bear enough firepower to actually utilize all that bandwidth...
<rrittenhouse> Rogue software on their machine would say otherwise haha
<canthus13> Heh.
<canthus13> bah.
<canthus13> paultag: guess what?
<oda> paultag, "ITT: post your desk" http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5019/5573424496_3dca529973_b.jpg
<canthus13> the game
<canthus13> Why do you have a bottle of olive oil on your desk?
<oda> canthus13, good for skin and food
<Cheri703> ...mmmmhm
<oda> canthus13, I eat constantly and have bad skin.
<canthus13> Meh. I cook with it.. I wouldn't keep it on my desk.
<oda> canthus13, make sure if you take a bath with it that you wipe out the tub
<oda> canthus13, "7:30am  *adlklsd;dddj*  OH SHIT *thud*"
<Unit193> oda: I take it you have done that?
<oda> Unit193, yes
<Unit193> oda: Your desktop is very clear
<oda> Unit193, what do you mean?
<Unit193> oda: There doesn't seem to be really anything on it!
<oda> Unit193, Everything is kept on an external HDD and in folders
<oda> Unit193, Ubuntu isn't my primary OS either, using it instead of XP which is totally ****** up until I can get an optical drive to install win7
<Unit193> oda: Technically, I don't use Ubuntu, I use Lubuntu and Xubuntu (and when 11.04 hits final, I'll add a Kubuntu dual-boot to that mix)
<oda> Unit193, Lubuntu? that term is new to me
<Unit193> oda: LXDE makes it more lightweight then Xubuntu (but I do like Xubuntu better)
 * oda will look into this
<Unit193> oda: Do you really need it? (I have it for a really old HP)
<oda> Unit193, I have a netbook, so close enough
<oda> using it as a primary system, only cost $150 and does pretty much everything but GPU intensive gaming
<paultag> canthus13: let's hear it :)
<canthus13> paultag: the game.
<paultag> oh FUCK
<paultag> goddamnit. and now i'm off to classe
#ubuntu-us-oh 2011-03-31
<BiosElement> Is it odd that I'm actually really looking foward to Unity? (And I'm a KDE user, ironically so it'd mean a return to gnomesoft land) >.>
<canthus13> Ugh. Unity. :(
<nhandler> Nothing official yet, but I'm getting close to deciding on a college, and since one of them is in Ohio, I figured I might as well start idling in here
<Unit193> That's what we all do :)
<Unit193> Welcome to the #ubuntu-us-oh channel!
<nhandler> Thanks Unit193 :)
<Unit193> Man, you're in everything!
<canthus13> nhandler: Which college?
<Cheri703> welcome nhandler :)
<nhandler> Unit193: Not quite, but as a member of the IRCC and freenode staff, I like to idle in a lot of channels
<nhandler> canthus13: Case Western
<nhandler> Thank you Cheri703
<Cheri703> where are you currently?
<nhandler> Cheri703: I'm in the NW suburbs of Chicago
<Cheri703> ah, I think I may have known that....
<Cheri703> we got a few inches of snow here today -_-
<paultag> heyya nhandler :)
<paultag> nhandler: wellcome to snowhell 2011
<nhandler> Sounds fun. I'm in Florida on vacation, so I was at the beach today
<nhandler> Hi paultag
<paultag> nhandler: it just snowed
<Cheri703> I kind of hate you now nhandler
<paultag> hehe
<nhandler> :D
<paultag> nhandler: No shit, when are you coming to check out CW?
<paultag> nhandler: the maintainer of bash in GNU is at CWR IIRC
<nhandler> paultag: I've gone once already. I'll be setting a date to go a second time sometime this week
<paultag> nhandler: let me know! I'm two minutes down the road! :)
<nhandler> paultag: As a professor or student?
<paultag> nhandler: professor, methinks
<nhandler> paultag: I thought you were farther away
<paultag> nhandler: no way! CW is Cleveland
<paultag> and on the east side, too
<paultag> it's about 10 minutes to CWR from JCU
<nhandler> paultag: Alright. I'll definitely let you know. It would be great to finally get to meet up in person
<paultag> Case kids go to the same bars as us
<paultag> nhandler: for sure!
<canthus13> nhandler: Cleveland... :(
<paultag> nhandler: there's a few great places to eat around
<paultag> nhandler: if you end up at CWR, you might consider taking the NEO LoCo from me :)
<paultag> since I'll be out of town
<nhandler> paultag: I'll talk to you about that if I end up at CWR and after I attend a meeting or two ;)
<paultag> nhandler: sure thing :)
<paultag> nhandler: so, I got Synnamon chrootable :)
<paultag> nothing fancy, yet. It's actually pretty cool
<paultag> I've tried to fix all the problems with dpkg :)
<nhandler> paultag: Very nice. I've been watching your various status updates about it. It sounds very cool.
<paultag> nhandler: I'm super stoked about it :)
<paultag> nhandler: I'm matching glibc and gcc versions, so I can "shift without a clutch"
<paultag> nhandler: then I'll just upload a new gcc to my build machine, then a new glibc, and do an archive rebuild live
<paultag> buhaha :)
 * djoe was just in OH briefly
<nhandler> paultag: Can you run your package manager alongside dpkg/apt ?
<paultag> nhandler: all my machines are doing that now, but they will start to conflict and bork. It's sane enough to not do anything stupid, I'm just using it to do basic builds
<paultag> nhandler: it can convert debs into syns, though
<paultag> nhandler: I've just removed the idea of multi-binary packages totally. It's all in one blob, with a config file telling syn what files belong to what subpackage
<paultag> it'll auto-install some things (marked default) and not install other things (headers) by default
<paultag> so deb-to-syn breaks sometimes
<nhandler> paultag: I would have been surprised if it didn't. Converting deb->anything is a quite daunting task
<paultag> +1
<Unit193> It would be really cool if you could integrate Synergy and LibreOffice (Impress)
<Cheri703> how so?
<Unit193> Like how you can use dual monitors with the "Presenter View" (would be more of a remote control then synergy, but still)
<Cheri703> hmm...k
<Unit193> Dual monitors and Impress without dual monitors
<Cheri703> easiest way would be teamviewer and "don't display mouse on remote computer" or whatever :)
<Unit193> That wouldn't give you thre presenter mode...
<Cheri703> dunno
<Unit193> Anyway, it isn't going to happen...
<thafreak> Morning Ohio!
<canthus13> Herro.
 * canthus13 contemplates running vuln scans on his neighbors' computers.
<Cheri703> ?
<canthus13> Cheri703: 2 networks near me are wide open, no security.  I'm pondering whether or not to scan their machines for vulnerabilities... If they're running decent AV, it *should* alert...
<Cheri703> ah
<Cheri703> there are SEVERAL of those near me
 * canthus13 figures he could prolly root most of their boxes easily with db_autopwn... but that kinda strays across ethical lines. :P
<canthus13> I'm just debating whether or not simply scanning their boxes counts as malicious. :P
<canthus13>  /me is getting bored with attacking boxes on his own network. :P
<djoe> http://thinkgeek.com/blog/2011/03/take-these-broken-things.html?cpg=fb <- Columbus-area hardware-hackers take note
<djoe> heck, I guess paultag  et al could even drive down once a quarter
<paultag> ohai
<Cheri703> huh, never knew they had a warehouse in cbus
<canthus13> One more reason to not buy HP.  http://consumerist.com/2011/02/hp-pretends-linux-voids-netbook-hardware-warranty.html
<Cheri703> did you see the thing about samsung and the keyloggers!?
<canthus13> Nope.
<canthus13> http://www.pcworld.com/article/223872/samsung_cleared_of_keylogger_accusation_one_nagging_question_remains.html
<canthus13> that?
<Cheri703> maybe, didn't see the newer one...will read now :)
<canthus13> Apparently, it was a false alarm with VIPRE.
<Cheri703> that's good then
<djoe> well, it's proprietary software, so one has to take at their word people who are beholden to the vendor anyway.
<djoe> that's the default situation with any proprietary OS.
<djoe> which is not news, but it is very much a case of "oh, so why exactly are you worrying about this sort of thing in this case only"
<canthus13> djoe: Don't attribute malicious intent where stupidity is more likely.
<canthus13> It's far more likely that the windows live crap that it alerted on just happened to have crap code that kind of resembles a keylogger than it is that there is actually malicious code.
<djoe> who would I be attributing malice to?  I didn't think I was.
<djoe> mostly, I'm attributing naivetee to folks who have such a selective worry about security
<djoe> if you're worried about security, maybe proprietary software is not for you
<canthus13> djoe: *shrug* You just seem to be equating proprietary with malicious, which isn't necessarily true.
 * BiosElement sighs
<djoe> canthus13: sorry you see it that way, I don't see that I'm doing anything of the sort.
<djoe> it's a basic epistemological question:  "How do you know?"
<djoe> with FOSS, you can either look, or choose anyone at all as your agent to look at the code on your behalf
<djoe> and that way, there is an auditable chain of accountability.
<djoe> with proprietary code, you still have some options, but they are more limited, and colored by the licensing relationships.
<djoe> it's not "proprietary software has molicious software in it" but rather "how you can know whether its there or not is more limited"
<BiosElement> The arguement is kinda patchy though. Only a dev who spent many, many hours could tell if any piece of foss software was malicious or not. To an end-user, that's not gonna happen. Thus it's no different really.
<canthus13> djoe: All good. :)
<canthus13> Any Toledo locals who are interested, your local ISP is hiring technical support types... pay is decent, benefits are pretty good.
<djoe> BiosElement: an end user isn't going to be a dev who spends hours on the code?
<djoe> of course not.
<djoe> that's a strawman.
<djoe> thus the bit about "choose anyone at all as your  agent to look at the code on your behalf
<djoe> "
<BiosElement> And that's so very likely.
<djoe> happens all the time.
<djoe> or maybe you've never read a project mailing list to see who is active in it.
<djoe> in which case, you'd have no clue.
<djoe> but I suspect you do do that, and so you're familiar with that sort of dynamic.
<canthus13> The average user has no clue how to initiate something like that.
<BiosElement> And yet it's still not difficult to argue that proprietary software can and usually is equally secure to F/OSS software. Arguing it's inherently less secure is just silly and an average end-user won't hire someone to review it.
<canthus13> Not to mention that most people don't know a competent dev that they trust to evaluate something like that, so it's still word of mouth.
<djoe> right.  So, if we take, say, one of our family members as the "average user" then they rely on us, and we rely on our inspection of the dev community and therefor on that dev community.
<djoe> it doesn't have to be grandpa sitting down with some Russian code whiz, directly.
<djoe> BiosElement: I have trouble respecting any attempt to treat "security' as if it is some scalar quantity.  I'm not arguing about 'security' I'm arguing about the presence of malicious code.  They are related, but not the same.  Perhaps too subtle a distinction for you, but that's what we were talking about.
<djoe> 'security' usually being wildly context dependent.
<BiosElement> That 'is' the same. Malicious code isn't secure for an end-user.
<djoe> right.  but the lack of deliberately malicious code isn't the same thing as being 'secure'
<djoe> hence the non-identity.
<djoe> most security problems are not from malicious code introduced upstream, but due to vulnerabilities in the code that are later exploited.
<djoe> so, very very much not the same thing.
<BiosElement> Arguing proprietary software inherently has Malicious software in it (or has a higher chance too) is just as bad as Microsoft's average FUD.
<djoe> good thing I'm not doing that.
<djoe> apology accepted.
<BiosElement> Smartass remarks don't help your case. :) Enjoy arguing alone, since you'd rather make petty remarks then actually debate something.
<djoe> heh
<djoe> I'm glad I had the opportunity to clear up some of your misconceptions, BiosElement, and would be happy to try to help you out of similar confusion in the future, if you'd like.
<paultag> hehe
<paultag> this conversation is great
<paultag> BiosElement: it may in practice be about the same, but at least I can audit my code, and make sure it's not sending passwords over the wire, with F/OSS
<paultag> Nonfree crap will not allow me to do this, short of sniffing
<paultag> but if it's encrypted, all is lost
<djoe> paultag: not true.  there are people outside of the originating companies who look at proprietary code.
<BiosElement> paultag: I'm not arguing it isn't easier to secure, but it's FUD to argue it's inherently evil. (As for passwords, that's easy to watch for but I'll give you that one :P)
<paultag> djoe: truth
<djoe> so, there is some level of inspection there.
<djoe> it's just that, in order to look at that code, who knows what contractual limitations have been put in place.
<paultag> djoe: yes, but that does not prevent them from doing this. Who knows if that's the code that gets shipped
<paultag> djoe: or if they can talk about it
<djoe> in principle, one could inspect those agreements, ad infinitum, but at that point it's no less cumbersome than grandpa trusting me and me trusting some dev community . . .
<djoe> so, yeah.
<djoe> this doesn't even get into the question of whether a data-harvesting "feature" put in to "enhance the customer experience" is in the interests of the user, or not.
<paultag> aye
<paultag> so, who's got the beer
<djoe> maybe some Inherently Evil Ale?
<paultag> that'd be awesome
<djoe> also, BiosElement, I never said "inherently evil" so I would thank you very much not to ascribe that to me.  I find it, at best, impolite that you accuse me of "arguing" and so on, when what it seems is happening is that you are arguing with some figment of your severely limited imagination.
<djoe> You seem to inhabit a world in which any question always only has two sides, and you seem to have assigned me whatever color best fits your chessboard.
<nhandler> paultag: Looks like I might be going to an overnight program the 21-22
 * SkrappJaw is lurking
<Cheri703> hey SkrappJaw
<Cheri703> is facebook working for anyone else?
<SkrappJaw> sup?
<SkrappJaw> hmm...
<Unit193> Hello SkrappJaw
<SkrappJaw> lemme check
<SkrappJaw> hey.
<SkrappJaw> ya
<Cheri703> other websites are working, facebook chat is connecting via empathy, but I can't reach facebook.com -_-
<SkrappJaw> fb works for me
<SkrappJaw> i have it
 * Unit193 can get to facebook.com but didn't login
<Cheri703> weird
<SkrappJaw> the cia is decrypting the code in your profile info.
<SkrappJaw> lol
<Cheri703> could be
<Unit193> FBI, not CIA...
<SkrappJaw> NSA... :P
<Unit193> That was my next one
<Cheri703> restarted FF and we're good now :)
<SkrappJaw> dont ya know canines arent supposed to eat cookies?
<Cheri703> ?
<SkrappJaw> ops. thought i was typing in pidgin
<SkrappJaw> lol
<Cheri703> heh
<SkrappJaw> Setting up vbox for Andy.
<Cheri703> nice
<SkrappJaw> bout to get him in xchat.
<Unit193> Not pidgin?
<SkrappJaw> he's on pidgin
<Unit193> Pidgin also works with IRC...
<SkrappJaw> ya?
<Cheri703> I tried it and didn't like it
<Unit193> Yeah, but Xchat will give you a little more info
 * Cheri703 likes xchat :)
<SkrappJaw> I like a dedicated IRC window.
 * Unit193 likes irssi >:)
 * SkrappJaw likes ssh
<Unit193> +screen
<SkrappJaw>  +screen?
<Cheri703> screen is pretty cool, I've still not really messed with it though, and I like my non-command line based chat :)
<Cheri703> screen is via ssh
<Cheri703> so you could have irssi running on your home computer and hop back into it from your laptop
<Unit193> Or from Panera ;)
<Cheri703> indeed
<SkrappJaw> sweet
<Unit193> If you like pidgin, you could try finch (about the same, finch is for terminal)
<SkrappJaw> Terminal? that sounds cool.
<SkrappJaw> can i apt-get install that?
<Unit193> You already have that...
<Cheri703> terminal is your command line program
<SkrappJaw> I know but i didnt know there was a chat app that ran in the terminal
<Unit193> sudo apt-get install finch (I use the pidgin PPA)
<SkrappJaw> cool
<Cheri703> ah, yeah
<Unit193> It uses libpurple and the same config dir as pidgin (so if you have pidgin setup, you have finch setup with all your logs)
<SkrappJaw> brb
<SkrappJaw> food
<SkrappJaw> back
<Unit193> How/what was the food?
<SkrappJaw> cheri703: When is the next mans ubuhour?
<Cheri703> as of now, it is next thursday at 6
<paultag> nhandler: of april?
<SkrappJaw> cool. gives me time to get to wood st afte taht
<SkrappJaw> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Skrapp-Jaw/163509587038250
<SkrappJaw> I made a page for my solo bits.
<Unit193> SkrappJaw: Do you use Google Cal? you can hit the + Google Calendar on (http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/calendar) to add to your calendar
<SkrappJaw> no. I dont. just facebook.
<Cheri703> you can still bookmark it and look at it :)
<SkrappJaw> ctrl+d
<Unit193> FF4?
<SkrappJaw> any
#ubuntu-us-oh 2011-04-01
<nhandler> paultag: Yeah
<canthus13> this is too awesome:  http://humorpix.com/pictures/Killed_by_condom
<Cheri703> canthus13: that's been around for YEARS
<canthus13> Cheri703: It's still hilarious. :)
<Cheri703> true
<canthus13> check out /motd :)  Pink unicorns.
<paultag> nhandler: I'll be in Boston :(
<paultag> that's my easter break
<nhandler> Darn, crappy timing :(
<paultag> inorite
<nhandler> Well, if I end up going there, we'll have another chance to meetup
<paultag> nhandler: aye! -- just remember that I'm outa here in July
<Cheri703> so I'm in the process of getting a domain name for my business :) it's being stupid right now, but eventually I'll have something up at www.TechHeroOhio.com :)
<Unit193> Who are you getting it from? Are they hosting?
<Cheri703> 1and1.com is where I registered, my hosting is via byethost
<Cheri703> so...I'm super bored and avoiding chores. I hate housework :(
<canthus13> Cheri703: Who doesn't?
<Cheri703> some people like it
<Cheri703> I'm actually pondering a walk to the grocery store...supposed to rain tomorrow
<Unit193> canthus13: Do you check motd every day?
<canthus13> Unit193: No.
<Unit193> Anyone have a look at this >:) http://ilektrojohn.github.com/creepy/
<canthus13> What an appropriate name.
<canthus13> Unit193: The abuse potential for that is amazing...
<Cheri703> there have been a few like that
<canthus13> Once it supports facebook it'll be useful for plotting twisted crap like kidnappings.
<Unit193> First answer in the FAQs is true... but I really see how you could be easy to abuse
<Unit193> Well... that didn't work out too well
<canthus13> Unit193: Most people don't know that geolocation info is stamped into the pictures they take.
 * Unit193 tested it on my cousin
<Unit193> canthus13: But the people that post on their twitter?
<canthus13> Unit193: It still requires twitpics.
<canthus13> The data plotted from that stuff can possibly help nail down a target's daily routine...
<canthus13> Flickr should offer the option to scrub location data from images by default...
<Unit193> I don't think I know what twitpics is, but I agree about Flickr
<canthus13> Woohoo. Just swapped the drive from my wife's dead HP laptop to her new Dell.  No problems.. Didn't even have to install any new drivers. :)
<thafreak> canthus13: wow, that's lucky...was it a winblows laptop?
<canthus13> thafreak: Hell no.
<canthus13> thafreak: Linux, of course. She'd kill me if I left windows on her new laptop.
<thafreak> oh well, then that's not as impressive :)
<djoe> > 00:01 <+canthus13> Unit193: The abuse potential for that is amazing...
<djoe> I thought that was, in part, the point.
<djoe> to demonstrate how creepy this sort of technology, already in wide use in other ways, can be?
<canthus13> Probably.
<thafreak> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6217.html
#ubuntu-us-oh 2011-04-02
<canthus13>  
<canthus13> Argh.
<Cheri703> ?
<canthus13> Cheri703: Kernel oops spammed everything and corrupted my screen.
<Cheri703> :(
<canthus13> It recovered. I just had to disconnect and reconnect my screen session.
<Unit193> disconnect screen? ;)
<canthus13> yep.
<Cheri703> blargh
<canthus13> Blargh!!
<Cheri703> I'm so freaking bored!
<Cheri703> I think tomorrow I am going to wake up, check email and such, and then turn off internet for the whole day...no internet, no shows, no anything except stuff I need to do
<Cheri703> we'll see how long it lasts
<Cheri703> how is toledo?
<canthus13> Meh.
 * canthus13 is working tomorrow.  overtime. :P
<Cheri703> money money
<canthus13> yep.
#ubuntu-us-oh 2011-04-03
<canthus13> blargh. :P
<Cheri703> blarghy blarghity?
<canthus13> Cheri703: Yup.
#ubuntu-us-oh 2012-03-27
<canthus13> wow. It's like 3 years ago... 4 days with nobody speaking.
<Unit193> Only slightly dead here, but it can't quite be one person always hitting it...
<dzho> moo
<canthus13> Heh.
<toddc> waaaa
 * Cheri703 is alive, just busy
<Unit193> Howdy, Bios.
<BiosElement> Hey Unit193
<BiosElement> How's it going?
<Unit193> It be going... How about there?
<BiosElement> Ahh can't complain
<BiosElement> Just trying to get some projects done for once after my last little mess
<thafreak> Can anyone recommend a cheap usb dongle that's atleast 1.2 compliant and works with linux?
<paultag> for what? WiFi? Bluetooth? :)
<canthus13> paultag: a USB dongle. you know.. a thingie that plugs into your USB port and gives you a USB port.
 * canthus13 paid 10 cents for his.
<canthus13> ...also known as a USB extension.
<paultag> canthus13: hahaha
<thafreak> oops
<thafreak> haha yeah bluetooth
<thafreak> want to use a bluetooth headseat for voip
<thafreak> seems the dongle i had is only 1.1 and doesn't work with headsets :(
<canthus13> thafreak: I got a cheap no-name bluetooth dongle for like <2 bucks including shipping from china.. works fine.
<canthus13> Bluetooth dongles are pretty simple.
<canthus13> My dongle worked with headsets. my problem was syncing was iffy.. dunno if it was the dongle, the headset, or linux. :/
 * canthus13 is thinking linux 'coz it wo uld get confused about where the output should be directed.
<thafreak> huh, another recruiter called
<thafreak> "sales" engineer position...lots of traveling, but *base* salary is 110K....
<jandrusk> If your single that might work.
<thafreak> yeah, not single, complete opposite...
<Unit193> ...Double?
<Unit193> :P
<thafreak> nah, married, plus kids
<thafreak> plus wife is pregnant
<thafreak> so more kids
<thafreak> :/
<paultag> thafreak: you get get that salery programming
<paultag> it's not hard to break 100K if you know how to swing it
<thafreak> where in ohio
<paultag> oh not in Ohio, no
<thafreak> and i know those people
<thafreak> they work like 60hours a week
<paultag> perhaps if you were a hotshot at urbancode or something
<thafreak> might rather travel 2 or 3 days, and hang out at home the rest
<thafreak> urbancode?
 * canthus13 has a friend who codes primarily in ruby, being approached for 200k+ positions... he's 20 years old. o.O
<paultag> canthus13: yeah, that happens :)
<paultag> thafreak: it's in cleveland
<thafreak> your mom approaches 200K....
<thafreak> kilos that is
<thafreak> BURN
<canthus13> paultag: He dropped out of high school. :/
<thafreak> and 110 was just the base salary, commission gets paid on top...well a percent of the salesperson's commission
<canthus13> thafreak: that would be fun. :)
<thafreak> and stock options
<canthus13> stock options. :/ depending on the company they might be worth less than no benefits at all. :/
<yano> stock options can be a waste of money
<Unit193> Boom, it's official, jrgifford put me on it. ;) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<jrgifford> W000T! Only took you what. 6 months?
<jrgifford> AHH YEAH. You and Christ Druif. I *need* to be at this meeting for sure.
<jrgifford> *Chris
<Unit193> Meh, you can forget about the first person... :P
#ubuntu-us-oh 2012-03-28
<jandrusk> Congrats. Glad to see your using irssi and screen.
<Unit193> Don't know who you're talking to, but same goes to them! Although tmux does handle UTF8 better.
<yano> +1 for tmux
<Unit193> Yeah, but screen is still what I use...
<canthus13> screen is just handy and *everywhere*
<yano> but tmux is green
<canthus13> Meh. my screen is green. :P
<yano> hehe
<canthus13> yano: it is! http://canthus13.com/stuff/screenie1.png
<yano> canthus13: lol
<yano> canthus13: yano.me/.public/2012-03-27-22-48-28_1920x1080.png
<yano> ugh i hate that, if you don't wait for a page to load in firefox and you try to copy and paste the url in the url bar it doesn't add the HTTP or HTTPS
<yano> same in chrome too
<Unit193> yano: browser.urlbar.trimURLs
<canthus13> heh.
<yano> toggling that doesn't seem to change the behaviour
<yano> ah, that shows the full url in the urlbar only if you have loaded the page. what i was looking for was/is if you manually type in "google.com" and then highlight it and copy it it would add the 'http://' automatically to the prefix of what you highlighted (before you try loading the site)
<yano> i think the trimURLs has spoiled me
<Unit193> I always toggle that back, it's part of my setting up of firefox.
<yano> yea, i like that disabled
<yano> i think firefox did that to match chrome doing it
<yano> i've always found it annoying
 * canthus13 never had a problem waiting the second or so it takes most pages to load.
<Unit193> As I just said, screen in screen in screen wouldn't be a good idea. >_>
<yano> tmux inside tmux plays nicer than screen within screen
<yano> at least in my experience
<Unit193> screen in screen is working just awesome, just adding a 3rd wouldn't be good.
<yano> ah
<canthus13> screen in screen is irritating.
<Unit193> cat .screenrc  escape ^za
<jandrusk> Why in the world you want recursive screen sessions?
<Unit193> Screen on the computer that runs irssi/alpine/etc on local, and one in there to my shell account.
<jandrusk> I see.
<jandrusk> Anyone know if there is a limit to how many groups you can create on a single Ubuntu instance?
<jandrusk> Anyone know if there is a limit to how many groups you can create on a single Ubuntu instance?
<paultag> a lot
<paultag> actually, the problem would be how many can you fit so it reads well enough, and that depends on IO
<paultag> plus, you can offload the PAM backend to another auth method
 * dzho rocks the nested screen sessions
<dzho> I don't know that I'd call that recursive.
<dzho> re-entrant, maybe?
<dzho> anyway, I try not to double back the streams onto each other.
#ubuntu-us-oh 2012-03-29
<jandrusk> Got the answer from kees in #ubuntu-hardened: cat /proc/sys/kernel/ngroups_max, which is set to 65536.
<jandrusk> Very interesting. Failed after 59,066 with "groupadd: Can't get unique GID (no more available GIDs)"
<paultag> jandrusk: move to kerbos or something
<paultag> sorry, kerberos
<thafreak> http://saltstack.org/
<paultag> man, I need some software written, bad
<paultag> fuck, I don't have time to do it
<paultag> but I need it
<jandrusk> paultag: Actually it was just an exercise to satisfy my curiousity. Would actually use LDAP in that scenario.
<thafreak> paultag: what kind-o-software you need?
<thafreak> it might already exist
<thafreak> salt seems pretty awesome, and almost exactly what I wanted to write my self...
<thafreak> now i feel...weird
<thafreak> like they read my brain
<thafreak> but also happy, cause now i don't have to write from scratch...i can just use their stuff!
<paultag> thafreak: I need a wrapper around python-dulwich (or similar) to expose a git repo to me in a sane way, quickly
<paultag> I need to have it expose the history, current refs, and be able to give me the tree at any revno
<paultag> in as close to zero time as one can
<paultag> jandrusk: gotcha
<paultag> jandrusk: I'm sure you could bump that number higher, that number seems random
<paultag> the closest number that would make sense is 65,536
<paultag> which is also the intmax
<jandrusk> I would think for saltstack you could just write a bash script that would commands on all servers in a list via SSH.
<paultag> thafreak: are you trying to write me some code?
<thafreak> no, just curious what you need so badly
<paultag> thafreak: I need a git viewer in django
<paultag> or any wsgi framework
<thafreak> interesting
<paultag> so I guess flask is ok too
<paultag> thafreak: I'd like to see gitlabhq for django
<paultag> I respect that project a lot
<thafreak> what part of git? like diffs or logs?
<paultag> but it's ruby
<paultag> thafreak: yes
<paultag> also tree, blobs
<thafreak> oh ok
<paultag> commits
<paultag> everything
<thafreak> so you can build like what redmine/etc have
<paultag> redmine is shit
<thafreak> isn't there a python-git library
<paultag> horseshit
<thafreak> haha
<paultag> thafreak: there's python-dulwich
<paultag> which is what I suggested
<thafreak> well, it's really fast...
<thafreak> wait
<paultag> dulwich is
<thafreak> trac has git support
<thafreak> and it's wsgi
<paultag> trac is shit
<paultag> I can't stand trac
<thafreak> haha
<thafreak> but maybe there's code you can borrow
<paultag> I also don't want bugs or anything like that
<paultag> I *just* want a git viewer
<thafreak> like the repository viewer part
<paultag> like http://git.debian.org/
<paultag> but not in PHP
<paultag> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/fluxbox.git;a=summary <- this would be ideal
<thafreak> you sure that's php, that looks like git-web, which is perl i think
<paultag> but make it look like http://gitlabhq.com/
<paultag> whatever it is, I don't want that on my server
<paultag> I used to have gitview
<paultag> which was good
<thafreak> You find something you let me know
<paultag> I'm going to have to write it.
<paultag> I don't want to
<paultag> like, at all
<thafreak> especially if it has good wiki support and needs latex support
<paultag> the fuck?
<paultag> that's not what I want at all :)
<paultag> I don't want anything except a git viewer
<thafreak> well if you find something you want that has wiki built in that supports latex...let me know ;)
<thafreak> here's my situation
<thafreak> we have trac hosted here and now redmine
<thafreak> no one is 100% happy with either
<paultag> I can't stand those crappy "all in one" solutions
<thafreak> mainly, redmine has a crap wiki, but user management is easy, and you can have apache auth against redmine (for svn or git over http)
<paultag> they never do anything well enough
<thafreak> trac has a much better wiki, but is a bitch to manage lots of projects
<thafreak> well, my boss won't let us write anything ourselves
<thafreak> she wants all these other things to work the way they want
<paultag> gitlabhq looks good
<thafreak> nah, not enough project management, and i doubt the wiki is any good
<paultag> thafreak: http://gitlabhq.com/demo.html
<thafreak> but it does look alot like github
<thafreak> which we're having trouble with now, one group started out using github, and now they're coming to us, and their workflow is now all screwy
<paultag> use github
<thafreak> we can't let people easily fork and we don't do pull requests, we just have plain old git
<paultag> bah
<paultag> format-patch ftw :)
<paultag> I am getting cranky at most "solutions"
<paultag> I hate mose code
<thafreak> you expect chemistry undergrads to use a cli tool?
<paultag> most *
<paultag> and I also hate mose programmers
<paultag> god damnit
<thafreak> what about "devops" people ;)
<paultag> s/mose/moot/g
<paultag> fuuuuuuu
<paultag> alright, I'm done. It's this keyboard.
<paultag> /idle
<thafreak> you can atleast spell idle
<thafreak> PEBCAK
<paultag> PEBKAC, dawg
<paultag> perhaps I'll offer someone a few bucks to write this wrapper on dulwich
<thafreak> Hey, anyone interested in some older ppc g3's?
<thafreak> I've got like 3 in my basement
<oda> kill them with fire
<paultag> oda smash
<dzho> nas boxes, yo
<dzho> oh, wait
<dzho> not with G3s
<dzho> G4s or go home
<dzho> these even PowerMacs, or are they fruit bubble CRT iMacs?
<dzho> ooh, this reminds me, I brought in a generic SATA-PCI card to see if the G4 PowerMacs will use it
<dzho> guess I should see to the reported web site error first though
<thafreak> nah, i have an old beige g3, the blue+white g3, and one of the imac g3's in my basement
<thafreak> and a broken dual g5 powermac
<thafreak> may hang on to the broken g5 for now though
<thafreak> I just hate it when I spend a few hundred dollars on things that i end up never getting around to doing anything with
<thafreak> then i need to throw them away, cause they become useless
<thafreak> I was trying to get osx 10.2 on the g3's...to play with...but now, 10.2 is so damn old, it's pointless
<thafreak> and I have NAS boxes already, and several VM host machines...no need for wimpy old hardware in the basement
<thafreak> might build another nas box, but it'll be dual core atleast (for raid-z2 on freenas)
<thafreak> Anyone want a 9gb scsi-2 drive? FULL height :)
<thafreak> i.e. about the height of 2 cdrom drives stacked up...it's a beast
<thafreak> weighs like 30lbs
<thafreak> well...if anyone wants a g3 for like compiling on the ppc arch, let me know, else they're going to the dump, or maybe down to freegeek columbus
<oda> G5 looks cool
<oda> I'd actually try to use one
<oda> dat case :3
<canthus13> G5... is that the one with no fans that died every few hours from overheating?
<oda> :(
<oda> no idea, never owned any apple product other than an ipod
<canthus13> Oh. no. that was the G4 cube, I think.
 * canthus13 shrugs. one of their artsy-fartsy 'form over function' models.
<canthus13> It was some G5s...
<oda> the iMac is an example of that, so silly.
<canthus13> A lot of their machines are an example of that. :/
<oda> macbook air
<oda> RAM is soldered in
<canthus13> macbook air is fucked up.
<canthus13> the MBPs are tanks, though.
<oda> ^^^
<oda> I got to play with one for 5 minutes once
<oda> it felt nice, but not $2,500 nice
<canthus13> my girlfriend dropped hers down 2 flights of stairs and it survived with a few dings.
<oda> I can buy a car for that much
<oda> LOL
<canthus13> She then spilled a glass of water in it and killed it.
<oda> oh come on
<canthus13> yeah.
<canthus13> Now she's got a POS ASUS that barely manages Win7 basic.  It runs Mint 12 fine, though. :D
<oda> ASUS is awesome
<oda> my favorite prebuilt manufacturer for laptops/netbooks
<canthus13> It's an X53U.
<canthus13> I dunno how she found it in the US.
<canthus13> The last I heard, it was supposed to be designated for emerging markets.
<oda> AMD Fusion = Intel Celeron IIRC
<oda> That's a full size laptop too :/
<oda> Needs to have an i3 or C2D
<canthus13> yup.
#ubuntu-us-oh 2012-03-30
<oda> Tim Allen naked eating a corn dog underwater mummified
<_bbb> true story
<oda> Best story.
<oda> Insomnia is the enemy.
<BiosElement> Anyone else up at 7am? >.>
<canthus13> Me.
<BiosElement> Heh I feel sorry for you canthus13 :P
<canthus13> I have kids to get to school. :/
<BiosElement> How very exciting
 * oda up at 5am
<oda> Going to try out doing street photography today and I find that I'm more comfortable when dead tired ^_^
<oda> Sleep is the cousin of death
<thafreak> Morning Ohio
#ubuntu-us-oh 2012-03-31
<ronnoc> HI all. Any Kubuntu users here (you know who you are!) should go to #kde-usa and say hi :)
<BiosElement> Looking at buying this laptop, anyone have opinions on it? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=34-246-328 Mostly just wanting a mobile coding platform + browse + a probably rare game or two.
<BiosElement> Not exactly a laptop guy myself, much more into desktops so I'm rather outta my league on this.
#ubuntu-us-oh 2012-04-01
<canthus13> that cpu seems... weak.
<canthus13> and I haven't had luck with the newer mobile radeon chipsets. :/
<BiosElement> Aye, I agree on that front
<BiosElement> Found a somewhat improved model: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834246327
<BiosElement> But with linux support slightly more in question heh
<canthus13> my girlfriend has this, running Mint 12. (Windows barely boots on it)  http://www.technostarry.com/hardware/asus-x53u-sx013d-review/
<canthus13> ...but with the 1.6ghz brazos.
<BiosElement> Yeah, Asus is a bunch I like somewhat heh
<canthus13> Funny thing.. the non-free video drivers don't work right on that machine. I had to roll back to the O/S ones.
<BiosElement> Somewhat a pain when I demand a resonable build quality, dedicated graphics, linux support and a decent keyboard all in one >.>
<canthus13> The build quality on that asus is... ok.
<canthus13> for $399, it's not bad.
<BiosElement> Yep, that's asus for ya lol
<canthus13> Everything worked OOB with Mint.  Win 7, otoh... Win 7 takes about 5 minutes to boot.
<BiosElement> lmao wow
<canthus13> about the only time she boots into windows now is for netflix.
<ronnoc> BiosElement: For a good looking deal (and better ADM processor) might have a look at this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834246300&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL033012&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL033012-_-EMC-033012-Index-_-LaptopsNotebooks-_-34246300-L0D
<BiosElement> Quite nice actually heh
<ronnoc> indeed
<ronnoc> *AMD
<BiosElement> Decided to order http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834246327
<BiosElement> Hopefully I won't regret the sucker heh
<canthus13> better video chipset, for sure.
<BiosElement> Aye, it'll just be a PITA to get running on linux. But apparently they fixed that issue
<ronnoc> BiosElement: nice
<Cheri703> rawr
<Unit193> Heyhey, bad week it seems.
<Cheri703> LONG week
<Cheri703> bored and hungry and antsy tonight
<Cheri703> hungry part taken care of :)
<ronnoc> Hi Cheri703. Hope you are enjoying the weekend :)
<Cheri703> thanks, mine just started tonight, I worked til 11pm
<Cheri703> off sunday/monday
<ronnoc> nice. well..let the festivities commence!
<Cheri703> indeed! I have a ton of crap to do :/
<ronnoc> I'd love to have Mondays off. So much easier to get errands done, etc.
<Cheri703> yeah, my old shift was tues/weds off, which was dumb, sun/mon works nicely
<ronnoc> yea that would be perfect for me as well
<Cheri703> I hate the job, but the shift is good :)
<Cheri703> once my book arrives on monday, I am starting to study for the CompTIA Security+ exam :) hoping to take it by the end of april or sometime in may
<ronnoc> Not too many people are blessed with a job they love.
<Cheri703> I'm working on it
<ronnoc> Oh nice! Is it hard to pass?
<Cheri703> not as far as I can tell
<Cheri703> I got a book that comes very highly recommended, yay amazon
<ronnoc> \m/
<ronnoc> Are there any plans (tentative or not) regarding Ohio Linux Fest this year?
<Cheri703> I have no idea. I couldn't go last year due to finances/transportation
<Cheri703> I'd imagine something will get worked out, I'm hoping it will
<ronnoc> I'm going to go. Was talking to BiosElement earlier. There's a new KDE-USA group with a few members in Ohio who want to attend also. I might look at seeing if it makes sense to pool resources...
<ronnoc> If anything needs done organizing, etc, lemme know
<Unit193> Cheri703: You went Kubuntu didn't you?
<Cheri703> had been planning to, but stuck with ubuntu proper...still working out the kinks with unity...
<Unit193> Unity is better in 12, so I hear.
<ronnoc> It appears to be gaining some love and polish. I check it out now and again and keep an eye on development
<ronnoc> i also use the USC in Kubuntu
<ronnoc> and Ubuntu One
<Unit193> I don't like USC, Unity, or Gnome*. :P
<ronnoc> Unit193: Well, if Desura worked worth a &*%^ in Qt/KDE, I'd ditch USC. Brings in a lot of GTK stuff that is not otherwise needed.
<ronnoc> But really I just like to keep abreast of what's all going on with Corporate
<ronnoc> Which begs the ?... is Ubuntu TV already dead? lol.... That....Fizzled....
<BiosElement> Honestly, Unity didn't seem at all better.
<Unit193> Than shell?
<Unit193> I know a few that like Shell.
<BiosElement> Then Kubuntu. >.>
<Unit193> Heh, but you like Kubuntu.
<Unit193> I know a fair number that wouldn't touch it, but think KDE isn't so bad.
<Unit193> I don't hav the hardware to run it either way.
<BiosElement> Heh having fun getting a laptop :|
<ronnoc> KDE 4.8 is pretty solid. I love it for it's ability to be mass-customized. I don't think I could ever seriously go to Unity for that reason alone.
<BiosElement> I ran into a huge wall with unity's workflow
<ronnoc> And actually, KDE's Activities are pretty revolutionary when one "gets it". It's the ultimate workflow companion IMHO.
<ronnoc> Yea, unity seems like an impediment to enabling the ability to get things done
#ubuntu-us-oh 2013-03-27
<jrgifford> skellat: ok, lets try to run pump.io for $250.
<skellat> Hunh?
<skellat> Oh
<skellat> Sorry
 * paultag registered earlier today
<jrgifford> paultag: heh
<skellat> I was in the middle of fussing over xubuntu-docs again to close out the last bug so as to then pester knome to upload a rebuilt package in time for beta freeze
<jrgifford> cool!
<skellat> paultag: You'll have a pump.io based account already once Identica transitions over since you've got an active account there
<jrgifford> but if they think they can run pump.io for $500, then i think i can run it for $250.
<paultag> neat :)
<paultag> I wonder how it'll merge
<paultag> since I have paultag on both
 * paultag hopes he broke
<paultag> it
<skellat> paultag: You might have
<skellat> paultag: Oh, wait.  The domain names matter.  Do you have paultag on two separate domains now?
<skellat> One other than Identica, that is
<paultag> nack
<paultag> I was thinking of setting up a status.net for debian
<skellat> Go for it
<skellat> FSF set up a StatusNet for themselves
<skellat> Heck, there's even a JuJu charm for deploying such things
<paultag> aye!
<paultag> (I'm friends with the FSFpeople, I remember when they did it :) )
<skellat> Well, that could prove interesting
<skellat> I'm still trying to wrap my head around the pump.io concept
<jrgifford> https://github.com/hotsh/rstat.us/issues/755 | well, we'll see if the rstat.us peoples have anything to add.
<Unit193> Maybe I should look this thing up. :P
<skellat> Essentially pump.io at the core is a transport layer to be built on top of
<skellat> I think
<skellat> Kinda like XMPP on steroids but more focused on social things instead of instant messaging
<jrgifford> basically.
<jrgifford> like tent.is
<jrgifford> er, https://tent.io/
<jrgifford> just like we had the kentucky cave wars a long time ago, we now have the distributed social network and file sharing wars.
<skellat> Competition can be good
<skellat> Federation is even better
<jrgifford> the competition is which protocol they'll find
<jrgifford> which is the best?
<skellat> Well, as a visit to a local library showed me once again today, I'm not exactly within the mainstream of opinion...
<skellat> Besides, my client for Twitter and Identica is TTYtter...
<jrgifford> what, lots of twitter + facebook + windows?
<skellat> No Windows, no Facebook on my end
<skellat> Plenty of Xfce, though
<jrgifford> no, at the library?
<skellat> Generally that's what you'd see at a library
#ubuntu-us-oh 2013-03-28
<Unit193> paultag: Congrats.
<paultag> Unit193: Hum? Oh! I finally got them to change it
<paultag> took months
<Unit193> Yep, 'tis nice.
<paultag> now I can act like an ass again!
<paultag> no more pesky CoC!
<dzho> the hell you say
<skellat> Hunh?
<skellat> What did I miss?
<paultag> ~paultag@ubuntu/member/paultag â ~paultag@debian/developer/paultag
<paultag> I no longer feel that Ubuntu is my primary affiliation
<skellat> Oh
<paultag> and on that bombshell, off home
<paultag> wait, I lied, fucking misconfigured clock
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Do I need to comment you out from Planet Ubuntu's config?
<paultag> Hahaha
<paultag> No, I'm still an Ubuntu member.
<skellat> Okay
<paultag> I just don't feel that I do that as a primary role anymore
<paultag> I also would remember to do that on the way out :)
<skellat> Most people don't
<paultag> I need to transition my email address, too
<paultag> eventually
<skellat> I've been going in and commenting out all sorts of folks after they publicly renounce being a member like Greg Grossmeier and Martin Owens
<skellat> It hasn't been pretty
<paultag> shit happens
<skellat> Yes
<skellat> When it rains, it pours.  In this case, somebody has amoebic dysentery.
<skellat> :-)
<skellat> paultag: How's the weather out in Boston?  I've still got snow scattered across the ground here.
<paultag> skellat: snow-free today, a bit of rain, most of the snow is melting now
<paultag> skellat: getting a bit warm, which I don't dig
<skellat> That's good
<paultag> but yeah, not bad
<paultag> how's NEO / CLE+ ?
<skellat> Ashtabula has hilarious hijinks of criminality per usual.  I'm in a quiet period before an election I may be working so I can't circulate petitions to get on the ballot in November until things blow over on May 8th.
<paultag> aye
<skellat> Been some spectacular auto accidents on I-90.  A dump truck took out a pedestrian bridge over I-90 near the E 150th type area and it looked like something out of a bad Bruce Willis movie
<paultag> yikes
<skellat> The new Captain America film is looking for extras in Cleveland
<skellat> And the teachers in Strongsville, a Cleveland suburb, remain on strike because they want more than the district is legally able to appropriate in terms of compensation.  The district can't sign agreements that ask for more than what is in district coffers yet the teachers are standing firm and the strike enters week 3.
<skellat> I don't know what the teachers are thinking in terms of how the Strongsville school district is magically going to come up with more money to meet their demands but, then again, I've had way too much background in Ohio local government finance
<skellat> Beyond that, I've been working on xubuntu-docs a bit and am waiting for micahg to get the new version uploaded in time for Beta 2
<paultag> http://gtg.installgentoo.com/images/art6.jpg
<BiosElement> Howdy folks, it's been some time. ^_^
<Unit193> Howdy.
<BiosElement> I presume things have been fairly dead?
<BiosElement> I think I'll take that as a yes. ;)
<skellat> BiosElement: Sorry, was helping get the dining room cleaned up for dinner
<BiosElement> skellat, It's no problem. ^_^
<skellat> What is new out your way?
 * skellat notes the ringing of the dinner bell and disappears from the keyboard for a while
<BiosElement> Not too much, although I thought I might take another stab at getting meetings going again now that it's beginning to warm up. Wasn't a huge fan of running around in the cold. >.>
<thafreak> can anyone recommend a browser that can handle 30+ active tabs and not make my computer suck
<thafreak> i guess i could turn swap off
<skellat> thafreak: Opera
#ubuntu-us-oh 2013-03-29
<jrgifford> thafreak: firefox
<jrgifford> or Opera.
<jrgifford> OR OR OR OR.
<jrgifford> Lynx.
 * jrgifford rockstar
<Unit193> Xombrero. :D
<skellat> Umm...yeah: http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/node/141
<skellat> I'm just playing it safe with Monday not only being the day after Easter but also April Fool's Day.  Nothing is being released that day.  The whole Air Staff even signed off on a notice to that effect this time.
<jrgifford> skellat: oh, i'm announcing my product in the 1st.
<jrgifford> assuming i get all my stuff done for today and tomorrow, it'll be ready.
<thafreak> product?
<gilbert> Cheri703: heya
<Cheri703> Hey
<gilbert> cool you're around
<gilbert> got a minute?
<Cheri703> yep
#ubuntu-us-oh 2013-03-30
<jrgifford> thafreak: yes.
<TheMaster> Cheri703: Ah, thanks for taking up ReLoCo lead, and hope you do well!
<Cheri703> thanks :)
<Cheri703> I'm pretty excited about the new phase of life that I'll be starting
#ubuntu-us-oh 2014-03-27
<belkinsa> Just a thought for those who are around: is anyone up for a Hangout Release Party for this release?
<Unit193> Things like that never worked in the past.  Last year it was all planned, mails sent, and one person total "showed up."
<belkinsa> Oh.  Never mind then.
#ubuntu-us-oh 2014-03-29
<belkinsa> Just a reminder: Our OLF planing meeting is today at 9 PM EST.
#ubuntu-us-oh 2014-03-30
<belkinsa> Hey there, skellat.
<skellat> Hello
<belkinsa> How are you?
<skellat> Trying to stay warm
<skellat> I salted the driveway and there was a plow truck out
<skellat> Thankfully we've **still** got salt for messes like this
<belkinsa> That's good to hear.  Down here is wet but no snow.
<skellat> Snow and Ice
<skellat> March is almost over
<skellat> Makes me miss living in the south Pacific
<skellat> And Nevada
<belkinsa> Meeting in less than 20 minutes.
<belkinsa> Meeting in 10 minutes.
<skellat> Will anybody show up for said meeting?
<belkinsa> I hope so.
<belkinsa> Meeting in less than 5 minutes.
<skellat> https://twitter.com/UbuntuOhio/status/450002188916375552
<jenni> [ Twitter / UbuntuOhio: There is a meeting tonight ... ] - https://j.mp/1rR8OGm
<skellat> 450002188916375552
<skellat> Hmm, jenni doesn't read tweets anymore
* belkinsa changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-oh to: Welcome to the IRC home of Ubuntu Ohio! |  Check us out at http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-ohio/ | Verified until 2015-11-19 | Future Planning Discussion to participate  in: http://is.gd/NIooNZ | Watch weather alerts in ##weather-us-oh | Meeting Topic: OLF Planning
<belkinsa> I saw this used in another LoCo's meeting.
<belkinsa> So the topic is set to what the topic is in the meeting.
<skellat> belkinsa: Meetingology does that a lot in its various incarnations across the channels
<belkinsa> I know, but we don't have that bot.
<skellat> jrgifford unit193: PING
<belkinsa> The meeting is starting!
<skellat> Good evening everyone and welcome to the March 2014 meeting for Ubuntu Ohio
<skellat> My name is Stephen Michael Kellat and I am the often absent Point of Contact/Leader for this LoCo Team
<skellat> If you are here to attend tonight's meeting, please consult the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/MeetingAgendaMarch2014
<jenni> [ OhioTeam/MeetingAgendaMarch2014 - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1rR9n2U
<skellat> We're going to pause now so that people can raise their hands or otherwise signify their attendance
 * belkinsa is here!
 * jrgifford raises hand
<skellat> Is anybody else in attendance for tonight's meeting?  If so, please signify your attendance politely while the meeting proceeds tonight.
<skellat> I am going to deviate briefly from the agenda to speak about a special topic.
<skellat> There have been questions raised about "the death of the LoCo" in the abstract throughout the Ubuntu community.
* belkinsa changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-oh to: Welcome to the IRC home of Ubuntu Ohio! |  Check us out at http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-ohio/ | Verified until 2015-11-19 | Future Planning Discussion to participate  in: http://is.gd/NIooNZ | Watch weather alerts in ##weather-us-oh | Meeting Topic: Some Special Topic
<skellat> In fact, this was even put forward as a topic for my partners on the Ubuntu UK Podcast to cover
<skellat> From the LoCo Council perspective, we do have a strong core of teams in Europe
<skellat> We have healthy teams in Asia
<skellat> We even have teams in Africa that are excited about Ubuntu and where LoCos are thriving
* belkinsa changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-oh to: Welcome to the IRC home of Ubuntu Ohio! |  Check us out at http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-ohio/ | Verified until 2015-11-19 | Future Planning Discussion to participate  in: http://is.gd/NIooNZ | Watch weather alerts in ##weather-us-oh | Meeting Topic: the death of the LoCo
<skellat> The biggest problem comes down to the United States
<jrgifford> and in the US, we're basically a barren wasteland
<jrgifford> or we're highly dysfunctional.
<belkinsa> Correct.
<skellat> jrgifford: Pretty much dysfunctional
<belkinsa> But why?
<skellat> 3 LoCos have fallen into the direct ownership of the LoCo Council
<skellat> All three within US states
<skellat> For the most part this is a phenomenon we're seeing in the United States and not seeing elsewhere on Earth
 * skellat notes that we don't have any major Ubuntu deployments in space while Debian is on the International Space Station
<skellat> Much of this is a cultural shift in the United States alone
<jrgifford> In a iPhone centric culture, I've had a very difficult time getting my non-technical peers involved with Ubuntu
<skellat> LoCo Council over the past week was already working on plans to get around issues with Moroccan customs to get discs for 14.04 into Morocco for the LoCo there
<skellat> We've been working to get the Kingdom of Spain's communities unified
<skellat> The Venezuelan LoCo...
<skellat> ...has been asking for lots and lots of stuff...
<skellat> ...and we have had to tell them to slow down as resources are not infinite.
<skellat> jrgifford: I'm tentatively agreeing that this is a cultural shift.  Not everybody wants to be a developer.  A key difference between the work of Canonical Community Team and the LoCo Council is that CCT assumes people want to become developers on a path of ever greater enlightenment while LoCo Council works on supporting communities across Earth.
<jrgifford> eh, i wouldn't even say that it has to be "become a developer"
<jrgifford> but (as I was discussing with someone yesterday) we are becoming a world where things just work, and we aren't curious about how to do things outside of that box.
<jrgifford> anyway, i'm derailing the conversation.
<skellat> By terms of analogy, we're in a period similar to the 1950s with automobiles.  You could be a gearhead who knows everything about how your car works and be fine-tuning it or be instead somebody simply looking for a simple sedan to just drive around and let somebody else worry about maintenance.
<jrgifford> precisely.
 * belkinsa nods
<skellat> With this in mind, there is some minor discussion that has cropped up from time to time at LoCo Council about wiping the slate clean of having state teams in the United States and having a single national team that organized itself internally however it saw fit.
<belkinsa> I don't see that possible.
<skellat> It would be taking a page from Brazil, in this case
<belkinsa> I mean it's against the nature of USA.
<skellat> Brazil has a single national team on Launchpad but internally is sub-divided into state groups or smaller
<belkinsa> Oh.  Maybe that could work that way.
<skellat> I want to alert the Ohio community that this has come up for the fourth time or so in discussion at LoCo Council but has not yet come to a vote
<skellat> Things may yet change but LoCo Council is actively committed to changing things up as needed including yelling at CCT
<Unit193> Doesn't seem like a useful choice to me.
<skellat> Unit193: I'm not the proposer.
<skellat> I've tried to stomp on this but I  only have 1 vote
<Unit193> Ones like CA seem to work for them, OH isn't very active, so would have to do different things than CA, trying to manage them the same wouldn't be useful.
<belkinsa> If there is a vote about doing what Brazil is doing, I would say that I have my +1 on the idea.  But!  I would to see the plan first that you guys have.
<Unit193> s/, t/.  T/
<jenni> Unit193 meant to say: Ones like CA seem to work for them, OH isn't very active, so would have to do different things than CA.  Trying to manage them the same wouldn't be useful.
<skellat> Thankfully nothing is that far along yet.  I just want to keep everybody in the loop.  California & Ohio are the strongest of the state teams in the US.
<Unit193> That's not really a good sign I'd say, since all we do is pretty much OLF once a year.
<skellat> No, it isn't.
<skellat> I thank Unit193 for the segue into OLF 2014 discussion.
* belkinsa changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-oh to: Welcome to the IRC home of Ubuntu Ohio! |  Check us out at http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-ohio/ | Verified until 2015-11-19 | Future Planning Discussion to participate  in: http://is.gd/NIooNZ | Watch weather alerts in ##weather-us-oh | Meeting Topic: OLF Planning
<belkinsa> Ready, or no?
<skellat> As noted in the agenda, we have a series of questions to discuss in the matter.
<skellat> We're not going to repeat 2013 of OLF being coordinated by a single person
<skellat> I lost too much sleep last year
<skellat> Being a federal employee also restricts my availability in novel yet bizarre ways too
<skellat> From the agenda: "1. Do we wish to engage with OLF at all after they hit us &  Canonical up for money in 2013 due to a budget shortfall on their part?   Will we need to raise funds to ensure our participation this year?  The  Canonical Community Team's Community Budget is neither vast nor  infinite to draw upon. "
<skellat> I don't have any new details about OLF's budget.
<skellat> They had a sponsor pull out on them last year unexpectedly which created the shortfall.
<belkinsa> What is the budgets, OLF and CCTC's?
<belkinsa> in numbers.
<skellat> Canonical Community Team's budget isn't a figure officially available to me but it really isn't all that much.
<belkinsa> Alright, just wondering.
<skellat> Assume only tens of thousands
<jrgifford> that's still a fair chunk of change.
<jrgifford> however, we can't count on that
<skellat> Bingo
<jrgifford> soo..... my question is "how much do we want to do, if anything"?
<skellat> Yeah
<skellat> The sponsorship levels cost chart for OLF 2014 is shown here: http://ohiolinux.org/sponsorship
<jenni> [ 2014 Sponsorship Opportunities | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 ] - https://j.mp/1rReBvv
<skellat> And these are their only known sponsors so far: http://ohiolinux.org/sponsors
<jenni> [ Sponsors | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 ] - https://j.mp/1rReFLS
<skellat> That is to say, they've got web hosting & e-mail provided for...and that is all!
<skellat> I feel confident we can come in at the $100 level for having a table again
<jrgifford> yeah, i'm sure we can do that at least
<belkinsa> +1
<skellat> If they bump us up to $500 for the "Bronze" level then we either need CCT backing or we walk away
<jrgifford> however, was ubucon a success or not last year?
<skellat> jrgifford: What is your success metric?
<jrgifford> skellat:  people came, showed interest
<belkinsa> But how much?
<jrgifford> i set low standards for "success", because you always need improvement
<Darkwing> you have a link for your Ubucon schedule last year?
<skellat> I didn't keep a good door count as I had too much stage management to do
<Darkwing> We had quite a bit of success from it in California at SCALE when I was there.
<jrgifford> Darkwing: SCALE is also a HUGE event
<skellat> Darkwing: I'll have to dig it out of the e-mail archives since whatever was on OLF's web site got trashed in a total re-design
<Darkwing> jrgifford: Oh trust me, I know.
 * skellat notes that the e-mail archive dig might take a few hours
<belkinsa> Darkwing, OLF is not really that huge as SCALE.
<jrgifford> OLF is tiny compared to SCALE.
<jrgifford> so... it's not really a fair comparision
<Darkwing> Been to both. I'm in Fort Wayne, IN and I help put together a few SCALES.
<jrgifford> i think ubucon for us might be worth passing over
<Darkwing> No, but there can tips that might bleed over.
<Darkwing> back when I was out ther.
<Darkwing> *there
<jrgifford> because while i'm sure we can get speakers, we might not be able to get people to come and watch
<jrgifford> or we could do a half day of workshops
<skellat> jrgifford: That's what I was worried about.  Outside myself and Jon Buckley speaking we couldn't generate a native roster of speakers.  System76 saved us with their people and connections as did Jorge Castro.
<Darkwing> I'll do one.
<jrgifford> skellat: jorge is almost native. Michigan. ;p
<Darkwing> My focus is mostly KDE again.
<skellat> jrgifford: Darkwing counts by that measure then
<Unit193> Darkwing: \o/
<Darkwing> Yes Unit193, I'm back LOL
<skellat> Darkwing: I have no problem with that.  I'm part of Xubuntu Team.  Purity in usage of Unity is not required here.
<Unit193> IN might as well be sisters with OH, they have the same weather.
<Darkwing> Unit193: No kidding.
<Unit193> Darkwing: Like the snow? :P
<Darkwing> Unit193: It's not San Diego LOL
<jrgifford> skellat, Darkwing - i'm more of a server guy lately
<Darkwing> So, we have at least K, X and Server covered.
<belkinsa> Seems os.
<belkinsa> so*
<Unit193> If you aren't counting talks, I'm in for X and server.
<skellat> Darkwing: Which at our exhibition table was where a lot of our interest was anyhow.
<jrgifford> spend my desktop time in microsoft land (ew), and my working end in server.
<jrgifford> i could do a talk on the home server
<Darkwing> Yeah, I was only there half a day last OLF but, your booth seemed to generate a lot of buzz.
<jrgifford> could fill an hour or so with that.
<Darkwing> I can toss Touch on my Nexus 7
<jrgifford> "Linux for the Home Server, and why we should all have one in our basement"
<Darkwing> ++
<belkinsa> I was thinking the same is having Touch on one of the Nexuses
<belkinsa> jrgifford, +1
<jrgifford> by then i could probably have my nexus 4 back up and running
<jrgifford> and put it on that
<Darkwing> What we did for SCALE Ubucon... Intro to Ubuntu, Flavors and a couple of misc Hot to or why talks.
<skellat> Restating the question again: "1. Do we wish to engage with OLF at all after they hit us &  Canonical up for money in 2013 due to a budget shortfall on their part?   Will we need to raise funds to ensure our participation this year?  The  Canonical Community Team's Community Budget is neither vast nor  infinite to draw upon. "  It looks we'll need to pass around the hat to get $100 but we can manage this.
<belkinsa> And I have Nexus 7 2013
<jrgifford> skellat: yes, we can pass the hat
<Darkwing> I rely on Ingress too much to flip my Nexus 4
<belkinsa> I agree.  Pass the hat.
<Darkwing> I'll toss some $$ in the hat.
<skellat> Next on the agenda: "2. Shall we present another UbuCon?  If yes, can we organically generate presentations from within the community this time? "
<jrgifford> and if we need more than that, if i'm given a few weeks notice i can probably dig up a "corporate sponsor".
<jrgifford> or two.
<jrgifford> (to cover the shortfall)
<Darkwing> jrgifford: What we did in Cali was sell T-Shirts
<jrgifford> Darkwing: oh, i know a screen printer. we might be able to do that...
<belkinsa> skellat, I guess we sort of talked about that.
<Darkwing> The first year we did that, we took orders, made enough to provide each year after.
<skellat> Do we want to shoot for UbuCon **or** submit workshops here: http://ohiolinux.org/content/call-presentations-now-open
<jenni> [ Call for Presentations Now Open - UPDATED | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 ] - https://j.mp/1rRh1Ky
<belkinsa> jrgifford, but the shirts need to be pre-srunk cotton.
<jrgifford> belkinsa: if we want to investigate, i can talk to him
<belkinsa> Sure.
<skellat> belkinsa, jrgifford: I'm sure we could try Daffy Dan's in downtown Cleveland as they're a good vendor
<belkinsa> Sure to that also.
<jrgifford> skellat: we can investigate, if we want. sounds like we do, so i'll add that to my list
<skellat> Are we going with an UbuCon or workshops or trying both?
<jrgifford> dunno. we're kinda wandering in circles around that point.
<belkinsa> Yeah, seems so.
<skellat> Okay, we're parking that issue to come back to.
<skellat> Next agenda item: "3. Shall we have a table in the exhibitors area?  Free tables are  basically gone after last year's proceedings.  Canonical only  distributes discs for the LTS so we'd have to generate our own  distribution copies of 14.10.  Canonical only distributes Ubuntu desktop  & server LTS discs but I am, of course, certainly biased in favor  of having a few copies of Xubuntu available at least. "
<skellat> Table cost is $100.
<skellat> Media for distribution is whatever we decide we want to do
<skellat> People like freebies
<jrgifford> ok
<jrgifford> so do we want to investigate getting a bunch of ohio loco branded usb keys?
<skellat> The only thing given out in 2013 was business cards & a lot of hot air from me evangelizing
<belkinsa> Would LIVE USB sticks be an idea?
<jrgifford> 1GB/2GB big, then we can put anything on it.
 * skellat notes he can occasionally be heard in a pulpit preaching on some Sunday mornings
<jrgifford> get a PCI card that does usb 2.0, a couple of extender cables, and then have all the ISOs on hand?
<jrgifford> takes about 7 minutes to make a USB key, that is bootable.
<jrgifford> using the good ol' dd.
<skellat> jrgifford: We don't get power for free
<jrgifford> skellat: how much for power?
<skellat> Space will be limited
<skellat> jrgifford: We'll need to ask
<jrgifford> we'd need 2 plugs, or even someones laptop that has usb3 + a hub.
<belkinsa> I have a 2.0 hub.
<skellat> Space will be verily limited so we would want some collateral ready to hand out during rush periods
<jrgifford> true
<jrgifford> software wise, piece of cake.
<Darkwing> http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Promotional-OEM-swivel-usb-business-card_1492323694.html
<jenni> [ Promotional Oem Swivel Usb Business Card - Buy Swivel Usb Business Card,Usb Business Card,Oem Swivel Usb Business Card Product on Alibaba.com ] - https://j.mp/1rRhPz2
<belkinsa> Maybe have some pre-installed live USB of each favour?
<belkinsa> Or that.
<skellat> belkinsa: That's the idea
<skellat> K,X,G,L,Mainline
<skellat> No to Kylin
<belkinsa> Mainline = Ubuntu?
<skellat> Yes
<belkinsa> Okay, just checking.
<skellat> Okay, moving forward while keeping Darkwing's idea in mind.
<skellat> From the agenda en bloc: "4. Way too early for a head count but we'll need to hope 6+ months notice is enough time for people to plan on coming. 5. Key signing...we're going to do one this time darn it! 6. What else would the community like to do at OLF 2014?  "
<skellat> As to 4, we reach out to the community as best we can.
<skellat> As to 5, would anybody like to put that forward as a Saturday workshop?
<jrgifford> 4. yeah, true. 5. yes, please! 6. dunno. group photo? swap stories?
<jrgifford> skellat: i'd be interested in doing that
<jrgifford> (the key signing)
<belkinsa> 4. I will come 5. sure, if not super early, 6.DOn't too.
<belkinsa> Don't know*
<belkinsa> super early= before 8 AM
<skellat> jrgifford: Your mission will then be to navigate this and get it cleared by OLF as a scheduled session: http://ohiolinux.org/CFP
<jenni> [ Call for Presentations | Ohio LinuxFest 2014 ] - https://j.mp/1rRiDnD
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Unit193, any input oh hiding one?
<Unit193> Nope.
<skellat> Good enough.
<skellat> Returning to the parking lot to pick up a stalled issue: "2. Shall we present another UbuCon?  If yes, can we organically generate presentations from within the community this time? "
<jrgifford> i think the consensus is that we could probably organically do workshops
<skellat> As to the UbuCon?
<skellat> Let it lay or make the attempt?
 * belkinsa nods to jrgifford 
<jrgifford> we've got at least one idea, perhaps another one on how to anonymize yourself on the internet could be appropriate.
<jrgifford> skellat: for the ubucon
<skellat> Okay
<jrgifford> we could make an attempt, but it'd be a afternoon of workshops if we did it
<jrgifford> i think Unit193 would be perfect to lead the anonymize yourself talk
<skellat> Yes, yes indeed.
<skellat> :-)
<Unit193> >_>
<jrgifford> lol ;p
<belkinsa> lol
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> It sounds like we are in a good position
<belkinsa> Seems so.
<skellat> belkinsa: Could you please do a write-up on the meeting to post to your blog?
<jrgifford> and we've got enough time that assuming the OLF folks don't need it finalized tomorrow, we could get enough people
<belkinsa> skellat, sure.  On it but tomorrow.
<skellat> jrgifford: They changed their minds on deadline thankfully so it isn't in 3 weeks now
<skellat> Like it was as of yesterday
<Unit193> How many talks are needed?
<jrgifford> skellat: would they need the ubucon lineup finalized?
<skellat> jrgifford: Not initially
<jrgifford> like, i know confs in august that aren't going to have anything finalized until like, first of june at the earliest.
<skellat> 60-90 days beforehand most likely
<jrgifford> the CFP ends last week of may.
<jrgifford> hoping to announce first of june, but even they admit it'll probably be mid june, if not july. :P
<skellat> Yeah
<skellat> Unit193: As to talks, 4-7 would be needed, depending on length
<jrgifford> ok, so we have a little time to grow the talks from the community
<jrgifford> fantastic
<skellat> I had to do backup on one talk that went way too short and basically do stand-up improv
<jrgifford> stand-up improv is always fun, but rarely productive.
<skellat> When you need to not lose your audience before the next session and have to fill 40 minutes, you do what you must
<Unit193> Well presuming the people that said they know the subject, you have 3 just from this meeting.  (KDE, Server, and Xfce.)
<jrgifford> i know a canonical cloud guy in pittsburgh who might be interested
<jrgifford> so we can reach out to people
<jrgifford> we've got a little time to get it figured out
<belkinsa> +1 for reaching out
<skellat> The newly elected Colorado leader will likely be willing to make a repeat visit
<jenni> oh baby
 * skellat **SMACKS** jenni
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Thank you belkinsa unit193 jrgifford for all that you do
<Darkwing> We might be able to get someone to do an overview of Ubuntu...
<belkinsa> Not a problem.
<jrgifford> Darkwing: "Hello, and welcome to the whirlwind tour of the community, software, and squabbles."
<Darkwing> LOL
<Unit193> COolorado?
<Darkwing> I'm a Kubuntu guy... Used to it.
<jrgifford> "Disclaimer: I will offend a third, delight a third, and make 3 quarters of you very uncomfortable and happy with yourselves"
<jrgifford> *next slide*
<jrgifford> "And yes, I can math. 10."
<jrgifford> *next slide* "Unity: Then, now, and gaming engines?"
<jrgifford> ;p
<belkinsa> lol
<Darkwing> LOL
<jrgifford> i couldn't do that with a straight face.
<Darkwing> Open discussion... Mir vs Wayland. I'll go get some coffee.
<skellat> Unit193: Yes, Emma Marshall of System76.  You do remember System76 is based in Colorado, right?
<Unit193> Ah, that's who.
<skellat> Okay
<Unit193> Darkwing: Ahaha!
<jrgifford> Darkwing: come back in a decade and we'll have a winner that is just as bad as X11.
<Unit193> Nice.
<belkinsa> skellat, end meeting?
 * Unit193 played with Wayland just this week.
<skellat> It sounds like we're done.  I need somebody to help belkinsa get her blog listed on planet.u.c
<jrgifford> belkinsa: poke me tomorrow
<skellat> belkinsa, please do a write-up as you see fit
<jrgifford> i don't have anything tomorrow afternoon
<jrgifford> so i can help with that
<belkinsa> Sure tthing.
<belkinsa> After 5, jrgifford?
<jrgifford> sure
<belkinsa> 5 PM*
<belkinsa> Cool.
* belkinsa changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-oh to: Welcome to the IRC home of Ubuntu Ohio! |  Check us out at http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-ohio/ | Verified until 2015-11-19 | Future Planning Discussion to participate  in: http://is.gd/NIooNZ | Watch weather alerts in ##weather-us-oh
<skellat> Chatter at work remains a furlough is likely any time after D-day on April 15th.  I'll get 5 days notice if I get furloughed.  Once that happens, I'll have a ton of time available for community affairs again.
<skellat> So, goodnight belkinsa
<skellat> Goodnight jrgifford
<skellat> Goodnight Unit193
<Unit193> G'night.
<skellat> Goodnight Darkwing
<belkinsa> Night all.  Thanks for the meeting.
<jrgifford> Night skellat. Hang in there!
<jrgifford> Thanks for coming all.
 * skellat disappears
<Darkwing> Night skellat
<belkinsa> Indeed, hang in there.
<jenni> oh baby
 * Darkwing raises an eye to jenni
 * jrgifford frowns at jenni
<Unit193> Speaking of KDE, I haven't checked out 14.04 yet...
<jrgifford> I should. I think my next non-windows back will be KDE.
<jrgifford> Which will actually be my work desktop, hopefully.
<jrgifford> *box, not back.
<Unit193> I know what I like, and KDE isn't really it, but I don't exactly dislike KDE.
 * Unit193 frowns at the download speed.
<Unit193> Used to have a couple KDE people here.
<Darkwing> I should pop 14.04 in a VM
<Darkwing> I've been doing more python and web devel lately.
<Darkwing> I am just getting back into the swing of FOSS again.
<Darkwing> However, I am starting to miss parts of Unity.
<Unit193> Unity I have no interest at all in, so won't be seeing 14.04 of that.
<jrgifford> I use windows, I miss parts of unity. I go to Unity on my Netbook, I miss parts of windows workflow.
<jrgifford> Unity comes close to my style. So does the windows keyboard shortcut system. But both miss enough that I'm unhappy.
<jrgifford> :(
<Unit193> Mmmm, couple windows things are slightly handy, yep.  I tend to miss more Xfce on Windows than the reverse, though.
<jrgifford> It's equal for me.
<jrgifford> One common thing is the ability to tile windows easily.
<jrgifford> I need to do that (all my monitors), but nothing cuts it short of an actual tiling WM. Which I can't stand for other reasons.
<Darkwing> I keep finding myself coming back to Kubuntu
<Darkwing> *shrugs*
<Darkwing> I managed 4 months off of KDE.
<Unit193> And the swing of FOSS, can't say I'm technically ever fully there. :/
<Darkwing> Well, I was back when I was doing a lot with Kubuntu, council and such.
<Darkwing> But, I took a long vaca from that sort of thing.
<Unit193> I'm quite involved with Xubuntu, but logs, bugs, mailing lists (well, sending to them), and the FSF really irk me.
<Unit193> s/logs/public logs/
<jenni> Unit193 meant to say: I'm quite involved with Xubuntu, but public logs, bugs, mailing lists (well, sending to them), and the FSF really irk me.
<jrgifford> Hmm. Favorite OS just came to me.
<jrgifford> Basically, boot to VM.
<Darkwing> I got irked witht eh Mir vs Wayland war... (still am)
<Unit193> I still think mir is more of a fad, a thing of the present, not the future.
<jrgifford> Or more accurately, a hypervisor that makes each VM boot onto a different TTY. then I can switch at will. :p /end tangent
<jrgifford> Mir is odd.
<jrgifford> Dunno what to think yet.
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<jrgifford> I would pay for a license for that. Does that exist? Someone please tell me that exists. :p
<Unit193> Darkwing: Is there much out there in terms of LoCos?
<Darkwing> Unit193: Not in IN.
<Unit193> Meh, family out there.
<Darkwing> Not really a functional LUG in Fort Wayne either.
<Unit193> Seems there's a functional one in Akron at least.
<Darkwing> Was going to try something but, while my desktop is Kubuntu, my laptop is now a chromebook.
<Darkwing> Plus, anymore, the wife and I spend most of our time in Ingress lol
<belkinsa> jrgifford, ready?
#ubuntu-us-oh 2015-03-23
<PCLine_> Good evening everyone....and thanks Unit193
<Unit193> Howdy.
<PCLine_> After we talked about Firfox Sync  I stopped today when I came across ownCloud.  It might take care of the Calendar and syncing all in 1 program
<Unit193> Ah, yeah.
<PCLine_> I am going to try it tonight.
<PCLine_> it looks like its not in apt-get so that will be new for me also.
<Unit193> No.
<Unit193> But, in theory you can use their repos. :P
<PCLine_> I was looking at this.... http://www.ubuntugeek.com/install-owncloud-on-ubuntu-14-04-trusty-tahr.html
<jenni> [ Install Owncloud on Ubuntu 14.04 (Trusty Tahr) | Ubuntu Geek ] - https://j.mp/1xszkvP
#ubuntu-us-oh 2015-03-24
<PCLine_> Hello Hello
<PCLine_> Hows everyone tonight?
#ubuntu-us-oh 2015-03-25
<Unit193> Howdy.
<jrgifford> PCLine_: doing well.
<jrgifford> how are you doing?
<PCLine_> I am great tonight.  Hope I can get to my Ubuntu Wish List before the night is over.
#ubuntu-us-oh 2015-03-27
<PCLine_> ownCloud â web services under your control 
 * Unit193 doesn't use it.
<PCLine_> I need a way to share a calendar and contacts would be nice also.
<PCLine_> and I think there is a way to sync Bookmarks with this
<PCLine_> I will soon find out
<Unit193> Not compatible with sync 1.5.
<PCLine_> Looking at the link its 1.4 .... I might have a problem with 1.5  :(
<Unit193> Lines crossed, there's only sync 1.1 and 1.5.
<PCLine_> https://apps.owncloud.com/content/show.php/Mozilla+Sync?content=161793
<jenni> [ Mozilla Sync apps.ownCloud.com ] - https://j.mp/192UQfi
<PCLine_> I seen the 1.4 and thought that was the sync version...
<PCLine_> might be the app version
<dzho> radicale, perhaps
<thafreak> i use owncloud...not particularly jazzed about it
<dzho> a lot of these things I had hoped there would be clear python alternatives to, but the scale at which python programmers seem to write their code either leaves you with stuff that's smaller in scope or more general or something.
<dzho> like, you could use django for this, probably, but uh.
<dzho> or you could cobble together some libraries and mini frameworks and whatnot.
<dzho> I wonder if python will just get skipped over and the oh-do-not-make-me-use-PHP alternative will end up being written in node or something.
<thafreak> or ruby
<thafreak> everything is in ruby that's slick it seems...or yeah node is starting to take over some of the ruby
<thafreak> but I hear you...
<thafreak> there is seafile which is python, but it's not quite the same as owncloud
<thafreak> it does things differently
<thafreak> owncloud just sticks your files on the server in a spot that's writable
<thafreak> you can back them up or download them manually if things go sideways
<thafreak> seafile decided to store everything in checksum named blocks
<thafreak> so it can support deduplication
<thafreak> everyone writes their own thing and everyone does it differently, they don't just change code platforms it seems
<thafreak> i would like to see something tied heavily to nginx my self...make nginx do as much of the heavy lifting as possible
<jrgifford> eh, i doubt there would be a ruby implementation. 
<jrgifford> ruby community is too busy infighting over a bunch of other things right now to build something useful.
<thafreak> figures
<thafreak> it seems like all the cool stuff is done in php or ruby, both of which I'd rather not use
<thafreak> but i end up being forced to (gitlab)
<dzho> jrgifford: if you ever stumble across a good Cliff Notes summary of the ruby battle I'd love to see what that's about.  
<jrgifford> dzho: it's just more of the same stuff that's been going on for years.
<dzho> yeah I don't really do ruby, but am interested in how communities define and defend themselves
<dzho> like, I know |foo| is a thing in ruby :-)
<jrgifford> basically, there's this weird situation with the different virtualenv-type tools
<jrgifford> and they keep bickering.
<jrgifford> And I say "they" in that while I am a contributor to one, I have apps that are tied to the 2 main players.
<dzho> huh
<jrgifford> that's the cliff notes. it's been happening for years. 
<jrgifford> but it's starting to flare up again.
<dzho> like, I didn't get a lot from the whole systemd fracas except extended dance remix versions of "you're a poopyhead.  No, you are." until I read https://pappp.net/?p=969
<jenni> [ Linux Future | PAPPP's Rambling ] - https://j.mp/1GxoR40
<jrgifford> Basically, some of the tools believe in the unix way. others believe in a little more hand-holding. the happy middle ground is to use the unix way (minimal responsibilities for a single tool), combined with docker/something similar to be a sandbox.
<dzho> paultag has a nice write-up on this wrt system tools vs language tools
<jrgifford> i don't remember seeing that. would be interesting
<paultag> http://notes.pault.ag/debian-python/
<jenni> [ Ceci n'est pas une -EPIPE ] - https://j.mp/1GxoXc2
<paultag> It's so sensible you can't help but agree
<jrgifford> oh, nice!
<jrgifford> bookmarked
<jrgifford> don't ever take that page down paultag 
<paultag> It's one of my better posts
<dzho> ah, there it is
<dzho> :-)
<PCLine_> Good afternoon
#ubuntu-us-oh 2015-03-28
<PCLine_> ownCloud is going to work for me but the Calendar was not what I was thinking!
<PCLine_> time to setup the sync
<Unit193> Problem officer?
<PCLine_> No problems.... I was thinking I would have 1 Calendar with rights for multiple users what I have is multi calendars - 1 per user like I have now.
#ubuntu-us-oh 2016-03-30
<yano> http://thelantern.com/2016/03/ohio-state-is-stormready-for-the-upcoming-severe-weather-season/
<jenni> [ Ohio State is âStormReadyâ for the upcoming severe weather season | The Lantern ] - https://j.mp/1Usawy3
<yano> http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2016/03/30/marysville-ohio-employees-evacuating-honda-plant-in-marysville-amid-bomb-threat.html
<jenni> [ Employees evacuating Honda plant in Marysville amid bomb threat | WBNS-10TV Columbus, Ohio ] - https://j.mp/1MBTATa
<dzho> dagnabit
#ubuntu-us-oh 2016-03-31
<yano> https://youtu.be/WYNbp0u8WjA
<jenni> [ Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt - Songify This! - YouTube ] - https://j.mp/1E7gA1O
#ubuntu-us-oh 2016-04-01
<yano> .tw https://twitter.com/ircpuzzles/status/715871364226355201
<jenni> ... and we're off! First clue this year for the 2016 #ircpuzzles April Fool's Day Challenge is: IyMjIyMjQUZEMjAxNlN0YXJ0 | By: @ircpuzzles, Date: Fri Apr 01 12:00:08 +0000 2016, RT#: 1, Favs: 2
#ubuntu-us-oh 2016-04-03
<Unit193> Good job Winter, putting up one last fight!
<yano> http://www.wlwt.com/news/Cicadas-ready-to-emerge-across-central-eastern-Ohio-in-May/38843474
<jenni> [ Cicadas ready to emerge across central, eastern Ohio in May | Local News - WLWT Home ] - https://j.mp/222riCX
#ubuntu-us-oh 2017-03-28
<yano> http://www.10tv.com/article/columbus-city-council-votes-ban-conversion-therapy
<jenni> [ Columbus City Council votes to ban conversion therapy | WBNS-10TV Columbus, Ohio | Columbus News, Weather & Sports ] - https://bit.ly/2nw4FNf
<yano> .tw https://twitter.com/OhioSOSHusted/status/846761308531933184
<jenni> 6 days 'til the Monday, April 3 voter reg. #deadline for the May 2 Primary & Special Election -â¦ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/846761308531933184 | By: @OhioSOSHusted, Date: Tue Mar 28 16:30:02 +0000 2017, RT#: 2, Favs: 1
#ubuntu-us-oh 2017-03-29
<yano> Monday, April 3 voter registration deadline for the May 2 Primary & Special Election - http://www.MyOhioVote.com
<jenni> [ Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted ] - http://www.MyOhioVote.com
#ubuntu-us-oh 2017-03-30
<yano> http://www.wtol.com/story/35034328/elections-chief-ohioans-must-register-soon-for-may-primary
<jenni> [ Copy-Elections chief: Ohioans must register soon for May primary - Toledo News Now, News, Weather, Sports, Toledo, OH ] - https://bit.ly/2oDA4Lf
#ubuntu-us-oh 2017-03-31
<yano> https://ircpuzzles.org/blog/2017/03/2017-april-fools-day-afd-competition/
<jenni> [ 2017 April Fool's Day (AFD)Â Competition | #ircpuzzles ] - https://bit.ly/2mkB5I7
<yano> http://wosu.org/about-curious-cbus/
<jenni> [ About Curious Cbus | WOSU Public Media ] - https://bit.ly/2nnG7Cy
#ubuntu-us-oh 2017-04-01
<yano> https://ircpuzzles.org/blog/2017/04/2017-april-fools-day-challenge-live/
<jenni> [ 2017 April Fool's Day Challenge Is NowÂ LIVE | #ircpuzzles ] - https://bit.ly/2nVVPZC
<thafreak> I'm actually not just idle today!
<yano> yay
<thafreak> Sorry, my lame attempt at april fools joke :) 
<thafreak> I'll likely be very idle today 
<thafreak> So nothing happens in this channel anymore?
<Unit193> No, it's Ohio, are you expecting different?  I'd like more too, but I shouldn't be talking to myself.  I'm not even sure most here use Ubuntu in some form or another.
<Unit193> thafreak: Nice to see you alive again!
<thafreak> :)
<thafreak> I use it on servers sometimes...no one here usually discusses that though, it's all desktop this and that :)
<Unit193> I use Xubuntu as a desktop (or what used to be Xubuntu), and either Debian testing or Ubuntu for server(s).
<thafreak> lol, oposite here...debian on the desktops :) Working on moving to stretch now
<Unit193> Well I have that as a fallback plan, when Ubuntu finally does enough privacy violations that I can no longer stand.  I kind of turned Xubuntu into Debian based, because who likes starting from scratch? :P  (Also Xfce is butt ugly by default.)
<thafreak> I'm using xubuntu as the basis of a "dev desktop vm" idea I'm working on
<thafreak> wait, i mean xfce4 on stretch :)
<Unit193> Ah, of course I'm basing mine on unstable.
<thafreak> wow, on real hardware?
<Unit193> One of the other guys tried to base it on Jessie with Xfce 4.12, but that was harder to maintain.  Unstable is pretty stable for me at least, another Debian guy (cyberanger, here sometimes) swears by it too.  It's much easier if you avoid KDE and GNOME as DEs.
<Unit193> (By 'turned Xubuntu into a Debian based system', I mean ISO.  Though I did successfully upgrade from Ubuntu to Debian unstable in VM, with enough forcing.)
<thafreak> Ah, yeah, I don't try that anymore...I managed an upgrade on a server a few times, but things don't quite come out as nice in the desktop when trying to upgrade
<thafreak> it's like there's magic stuff that only happens when the installer runs, and I'm too lazy to figure out the differences...I'll just backup re-install and restore
<thafreak> Just that that ends up taking me forever...been in this process for a few weeks now
<thafreak> Wanted to clean things up BEFORE I back up
<thafreak> Also, switch from mainly using dropbox+encfs (which is apparently horrible idea) to syncthing+gocrpytfs
<Unit193> Ah, with the help of dpkg and apt it doesn't go horribly.  If you mean upgrade from the same base to the same base, I do that all the time because re-installs are so much effort for little gain.  Right, yeah.  Encfs really isn't the best for that.  Interesting you mention that!  I've recently started using that as well, even patched it in Ubuntu so it doesn't FTBFS and contacted the Debian 
<Unit193> maintainer.
<thafreak> you patched encfs?
<thafreak> HAve you looked at gocryptfs?
<thafreak> It's similar, just re-written in go, and avoids the problem encfs has
<Unit193> I did not patch encfs, never used it.  I meant to say I was looking at gocryptfs and: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gocryptfs/1.2-2ubuntu1
<jenni> [ 1.2-2ubuntu1 : gocryptfs package : Ubuntu ] - https://bit.ly/2nWAxLG
<thafreak> AH
<thafreak> I'm using the slightly older version in stretch on my desktop and built from source on a raspberry pi :)
<thafreak> Ok, kids are pestering me, they want to go home...
<thafreak> Back to being idle for me, good talking to you Unit193 
<Unit193> Heh, my version of "built from source" == updated and changed the packaging.  Have a good one, and yes it was a nice chat. :)
<Unit193> Mine can do something yours can't: unit193@Omega:~%  gocryptfs --version                  .:12:23:57 on 17-04-01:.
<Unit193> gocryptfs 1.2.1; go-fuse 0.0~git20161210.0.6c2b7d8-2; 2017-03-07 go1.7.4
<yano> .tw https://twitter.com/ircpuzzles/status/848212537787248641
<jenni> And we're off #AprilFools 2017! First Clue: IyMjIyMjTlNRMjAxN0ZnbmVnLVBlbGNnYkFyamY= Good luck! | By: @ircpuzzles, Date: Sat Apr 01 16:36:42 +0000 2017, RT#: 0, Favs: 0
#ubuntu-us-oh 2018-03-31
<yano> .tw https://twitter.com/ircpuzzles/status/980053270197612545
<jenni> And... we're LIVE! #AprilFools 2018 First Clue: IyMjIyMjQUZQQzIwMTgtVmlkZW9HYW1lcw== Good luck! https://twitter.com/ircpuzzles/status/980053270197612545/photo/1 | By: @ircpuzzles, Date: Sat Mar 31 12:04:42 +0000 2018, RT#: 3, Favs: 2
#ubuntu-us-oh 2018-04-01
<yano> https://twitter.com/ircpuzzles/status/980053270197612545
<jenni> [ ircpuzzles on Twitter: "And... we're LIVE! #AprilFools 2018 First Clue: IyMjIyMjQUZQQzIwMTgtVmlkZW9HYW1lcw== Good luck!â¦ " ] - https://bit.ly/2pSwMqK
#ubuntu-us-oh 2020-03-27
<Unit193> https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/home/dashboard
