#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-22
<rick_h_> Blazeix: _stink_ widox some awesome here I think: https://github.com/mockko/livereload
<rick_h_> especially with the edit in one monitor, display in the other setup
<brousch> my twitter feed is full of mitechie and mcrute
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> brousch: You need to see more people. ;)
<brousch> an occasional brent spiner in between
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, sorry aobut that
<rick_h_> we moved it off of twitter to IM, but too late
<rick_h_> we didn't have each other in IM before hand or it'd never have gone that far
<snap-l> I am SHOCKED
 * snap-l unfollows rick_h_ 
<rick_h_> yea, pretty much
<rick_h_> I kept hearing in my head "Don't be THAT guy!"
 * rick_h_ hangs head in shame
<snap-l> That's OK. We all have our moments. ;)
<brousch> you are hereby sentenced to 7 days of facebook as your exclusive social network
<rick_h_> crap, /me deletes internet
<brousch> be happy i didn't make it myspace!
<Wolfger> that would be foul
<snap-l> btw: I'm working on getting a booth for the loco at OLF
<snap-l> which means we'll need some folks to help man it
<snap-l> and something to give out. :)
<snap-l> Thinking business cards / flyers, etc
<snap-l> and a QR code so people can scan it to get to the loco directory page.
<snap-l> thoughts?
<ColonelPanic001> I approve.
<Wolfger> ++
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Congrats. When can you man the booth? :)
<ColonelPanic001> 2014
<snap-l> You too, Wolfger ;)
<brousch> penguin-shaped cookies with the qrcode in frosting on its belly
<snap-l> OK, from 8:14pm on Friday... until? :)
<ColonelPanic001> brousch++
<Wolfger> snap-l: if you get me to OLF and put me up in a room, I'll man the booth whenever you want me to
<snap-l> brousch is making cookies.
<ColonelPanic001> Wolfger++
<ColonelPanic001> when is it, this weekend?
<Wolfger> OLF is the week before my wife goes to Germany, so my cash is tied up
<brousch> i will need you to stop by here to pick them up on your way to columbus
<snap-l> Wolfger: There's always duck tape
<ColonelPanic001> every year there's something that's in the way of me going to OLF, I've never been. One of these days.
<snap-l> bah, I say, bah
<Wolfger> I really wanted to get back there this year, but my wife's trip trumps my plans. She deserves it.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Understandable
<ColonelPanic001> Germany trumps Ohio
<Wolfger> In many more ways than one
<snap-l> OK, I'll post to the list to see if we can get some folks
<snap-l> Mentioned sharing a booth to the Ohio Folks, and they (very nicely) said that they have enough folks for their booth, and wouldn't it be great if Michigan had their own booth. :)
<ColonelPanic001> it's a great idea, fwiw, I just don't plan on being there. Maybe I'll try and go next year. It's a given that whenever I'm at a con, I'm willing to help with loco stuff.
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Thanks. :)
<ColonelPanic001> never said my help is a good thing.
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm surprised at how soon things are this year
<snap-l> Feel like it's *BOOM* Global Jam, *BOOM* OLF, *BOOM* something else.
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<ColonelPanic001> OLF is free?
<snap-l> Yep, just the hotel costs money
<snap-l> and you can support them if you so choose.
<ColonelPanic001> just found the page with the details - nice
<ColonelPanic001> $65 isn't too bad for a weekend conf, suppose, even
<ColonelPanic001> and free is good.
<ColonelPanic001> maybe next year. Birthday gift to myself.
<ColonelPanic001> and to my girlfriend (the part where I'm gone all weekend, that is)
<snap-l> heh
<brousch> ping ptenhoopen__
<ColonelPanic001> nothing really jumps on me on the schedule, but several I'd at least stop into. Maybe 2012.
<ptenhoopen__> brousch:  Yes?
<rick_h_> snap-l: is this going to be joint with Ohio Loco?
<ColonelPanic001> This is Ohio Linux Fest, not Ontario Linux Fest. No joints.
 * Wolfger makes plans for Ontario Linux Fest...
<ptenhoopen__> snap-l:  If you don't get too many volunteers from your posting, I can probably help out.
<snap-l> rick_h_: if things work out, we might be next to the Ohio Loco
<snap-l> ptenhoopen: Awesome.
<snap-l> ptenhoopen: I'll definitely seek you out. :)
<ptenhoopen> OK
<Wolfger> Elastic Beanstalk???
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, so we're getting a lococast and miloco table and there's an ohio table?
<snap-l> rick_h_: That's correct.
<rick_h_> snap-l: can you hit them up on trying to get lococast by these so we can help cross-cover tables?
<snap-l> Yeah, I thought of that this morning
<rick_h_> not sure though since I think we're 'media'
<brousch> 2 of you are manning 3 tables?
<rick_h_> ok, going to go pound the pavement and see if anyone has any touchpads left
<brousch> you could call around
<brousch> and i posted a link to your query on google+
<jrwren> ZOMG.
<jrwren> I haven't done this since 1998/99 with Roxen web server.
<jrwren> rick_h would definitely appreciate this.
<jrwren> or anyone who runs apache at home for themselves.
<jrwren> NameBasedVirtualHosts over SSL.
<jrwren> http://fob.po8.org/node/289
<snap-l> I <3 Service Manuals
<snap-l> "Printing is not working in the Windows.
<snap-l> Secure more space of the hard disk.
<snap-l> Two samples of troubleshooting for my Samsung Printer
<brousch> no one reads the manual
<snap-l> This isn't just any ol' manual. It's the service manual
<snap-l> managed to stumble on it when searching for part numbers.
<snap-l> Though I'm thinking JoDee done blowed up the printer.
<brousch> printed too many angry letters for the History channel?
<brousch> used up all the red?
<snap-l> har har
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> brousch++
<rick_h_> ok, rumor is hp is getting more in stock this week
<rick_h_> signed up to get notified...who knows...
<brousch> final shipment from china or something?
<rick_h_> no idea, just according to HP PR twitter user
<rick_h_> http://twitter.com/#!/BrynaAtHP
<brousch> probably all of the returns from people who don't like them
<rick_h_> tried to get the demo unit from local office max with no luck
<brousch> you a sam's club member?
<rick_h_> https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=55439
<rick_h_> lol ^
<rick_h_> no
<rick_h_> no sams club
<brousch> costco maybe?
<rick_h_> I was tempted to go hitting more places, but meh, it's not worth that much to be tbh
<rick_h_> if I could hit buy I would, hope that the webos lives a little
<brousch> i think google should buy it from HP. they would suddenly have a hundred thousand android-capable tablets in people's hands
<brousch> and a few patents
<rick_h_> well, palm has some good patents, I don't think HP is going to sell them away
<rick_h_> and I'm holding out hope they open source it tbh
<snap-l> rick_h_: Oh geez (re: php returns md5 salts)
<snap-l> rick_h_: Why am I getting the feeling that some high profile sites are going to ask users to change their passwords because their passwords were never saved? :)
<rick_h_> yea, because if they fix the hashing they'll no longer match and all get 'invalid password' errors
<_stink_> jrwren: hey, thanks for the apache link.
<snap-l> Man, what is with these printer companies releasing these pathetic toner carts
<snap-l> $70 gets you 2600 pages ( or 2100 pages)
<snap-l> and that's for the Brother econom printer "high yield" cart.
<snap-l> Hmm, this Brother printer uses PC133 memory. I think I still have some in some box somewhere.
<_stink_> snap-l: i've got some you can have if needed.
<snap-l> _stink_: Thanks for the offer. Let me check first before taking you up on that.
<snap-l> "THIS IS MY 6TH BROTHER PRINTER. I TRY TO KEEP PRINTERS/COPIERS WITH SAME TONER CARTS. TWO NEEDED REPAIR AFTER 5 YEARS OF SERVICE BUT THE COST OF PARTS AND SERVICE WAS ALMOST THAT OF NEW ONES. NO QUESTION-NEW ONE."
<snap-l> I <3 reviews
<brousch> brother is on my never buy list due to the POS we had from them 8 years ago
<snap-l> my dad has had good luck with his inkjet printers
<rick_h_> yea, sorry. laserjet and that's it
<rick_h_> every other printer is a rip off
<devinheitmueller> You kind of have to wonder who continues to buy crappy printer after crappy printer.  Wouldn't you have thought he would have learned after his *third* crappy Brother printer?
<snap-l> rick_h_: The HP I was looking at had the 2100 page toner that was more like 1600 pages. ;)
<snap-l> I want to like the HP, but that's frankly crap
<brousch> devinheitmueller: people that don't even look at the brand when they buy, only the price tag
<rick_h_> snap-l: laser?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Laser
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZWHTMW/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_item
<devinheitmueller> Even laser jet has had a spotted history.  When I was at Lucent we replaced a bunch of rock solid LaserJet IIIs with LaserJet 5Ls.  We actually thew them away and dug the old Laserjet 3's out of the storage closet.
<jrwren> 15 yrs ago, my dad had pretty good luck with a canon laser... I think it was canon. I honestly don't recall.
<jrwren> ++ the laserjet 5 line was terrib.e
<rick_h_> snap-l: ah Because this is a newer machine the high yield cartridges aren't available. They don't last that long for the price you have to pay for them...
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: 5L? Wasn't that the upright laser printer that was essentially plastic clockwork shit?
<devinheitmueller> Yup.
<devinheitmueller> That's the one.
<devinheitmueller> The top feeder would always jam.
<devinheitmueller> What a crappy design.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: No wonder they replaced them
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: That printer was designed for the occasional note to Aunt Martha, not an office.
<devinheitmueller> It was a "standard Lucent bundle".  Basically when you order a PC it came with *that* particular pritner.
<snap-l> the 3 series was a workhorse.
<rick_h_> man, we had 4's that ran forever
<rick_h_> we actually wore out the wheels on sheet infeed
<rick_h_> so they started taking in more than one page of paper at a time
<devinheitmueller> I have a Laserjet 4 that I literally found on a curb in New York.
<rick_h_> replaced the wheels, still kept going
<snap-l> We had a 3SI and a 4SI at Wayne that were awesome
<rick_h_> I've got a newer-ish 1320, buy one high capacity toner ever 1.5ish years
<jrwren> I still ran an LJ4 until about a year ago. it was awesome.
<rick_h_> except for the extra generator needed to power it during warm up lol
<snap-l> The students completely abused those printers, though, because WSU was stupid about paper
<jrwren> my LJ 4MX toner lasted 5+ yrs... I had got the toner and printer used. I almost never printed. My wife however printed many papers through grad school.
<snap-l> we'd get students printing Chinese newsletters that were scads of pages long, and students provided their own paper, so we'd get shit like looseleaf paper in the printer to try and get rid of these jobs.
<jrwren> but still probably a very small pagecount
<devinheitmueller> I really should invent a laser printer that applies post-it notes to print jobs.  That would avoid the whole "entire sheet of paper wasted for a cover page" problem.
<snap-l> every printer we had had to have the fuser replaced at one point
<jrwren> no.
<jrwren> the cost of the psot-it note is greater than a blank 8.5x11
<snap-l> Just qrcode each page. ;)
<snap-l> Cover letters / cover sheets are stupid anyway.
<devinheitmueller> Well, these aren't actually Post-It (â¢) notes.  Just a smaller piece of paper adhered to the top page.
<devinheitmueller> You need cover sheets if you have a common area printer servicing hundreds of users (like in a University).
<snap-l> unless you're sending a fax to someone, cover sheets are redundant
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: And you have one piece of paper that everyone throws out
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: The point of a cover sheet for a print job is so that the guy working the printer knows who the document belongs to.
<snap-l> It's usefulness ceases once the job is picked up.
<devinheitmueller> Yes, the end-user throws the paper out.
<devinheitmueller> It's for routing the document to the correct user's dropbox.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: The guy working the printer? Is this the 1980s all over again?
<snap-l> Let me go to the computer center so I can go pick up my job.
<devinheitmueller> At Rutgers the computer lab had 200 users attached to two high capacity network printers.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: At Hope we used to get greenbar printouts from the vax
<rick_h_> http://avdi.org/devblog/2011/08/22/your-code-is-my-hell/ <3
<snap-l> Frankly, in my perfect world, we'd just send PDF documents to each other
<devinheitmueller> I'm just saying, in environments where it's not economical for everybody to have their own printer, there are cases where a cover sheet is appropriate.
<snap-l> especially sensitive documents like insurance forms and shit.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: Bah, I say. Just ferret through the stack of paper that nobody culls and find your job. ;)
<snap-l> That's how a real office works. :)
<snap-l> none of this cover-sheet-and-drop-box shit
<devinheitmueller> I actually spent ten bucks and bought an app for OSX that allows me to paste a scanned copy of my signature into PDFs.  Avoids the whole "print out, sign, scan, and send back the PDF issue)
<snap-l> HR gets their own printer so you don't accidentally find your salaray report in with the TPS reports.
<devinheitmueller> It's all about your volume.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: I've used Xournal and a Wacom tablet to send stuff via e-mail
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: does that allow you to modify existing PDFs?
<snap-l> Quite frankly, most of teh stuff that I copied / printed in an office could have easily been a PDF document if the company had laptops.
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: Yep.
<devinheitmueller> neato.
<snap-l> and almost without exception, once the meeting was done, the printout was useless, save for a record of what we covered.
<snap-l> I love Amazon's reviews of printers. "NO USB CABLE? I PAID $$$ FOR THIS, AND NOW I HAVE TO GET ANOTHER $20 CABLE! HP SUCKS!"
<devinheitmueller> Yeah, in my case 90% of the stuff I end up having to print are of the variety of "sign this and send it back" crap.
<snap-l> Never mind that it also has Ethernet
<devinheitmueller> anywayâ¦.  Back to work.  bbl.
<snap-l> laterness
<rick_h_> son-of-a-@#$@#%$@#%@#%@
<snap-l> rick_h_: What now?
<rick_h_> "I don't want to do that, it's poor design and usability, leaving the boxes blank is just bad"
<rick_h_> "the client is firm, they want them blank"
<rick_h_> "ok...here you go"
<rick_h_> Monday comes "I don't know that those blank boxes are very obvious what they do, I mean people aren't going to understand how to use them"
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<rick_h_> ummm yea...that's a brilliant idea, we should definitely fix that, sorry for my mistake mr client
<rick_h_> now repeat that with 4 other features and you'll get an idea of the "client requested updates" email I just got in my email
<rick_h_> 4 of the 6 are direct coming back to what I originally implemented/advised and was overruled
<snap-l> By the client, or coworkers?
<rick_h_> client, email forward from co-workers
<rick_h_> who I gave hell at the time of giving the client what they wanted
<rick_h_> poor nicole was afraid to chat with me
<rick_h_> waited a bit after the email and then IM'd "are you ok?"
<snap-l> did the client overrule you prior, or was it your coworkers?
<rick_h_> she knows I'm getting beyond annoyed at this
<rick_h_> client
<rick_h_> I originally built it my way, gave it to them to see
<rick_h_> even though co-workers said "They say they don't want that"
<rick_h_> client forced changes to what they wanted, now a week later (and a ton of other changes along the way) they're coming back to original
<snap-l> Nice
<snap-l> I swear you have to treat clients like they're 5 when it comes to choices.
<rick_h_> on the one hand, getting what I originally wanted, but at this point I just want to wash my hands of this POS project
<snap-l> To line up for the next POS project? :)
<snap-l> Has anyone used virtualenv from cron?
<rick_h_> sure
<rick_h_> just point the cron script to be run at the python in venv/bin
<rick_h_> all done
<rick_h_> snap-l: quit depressing me :P
<snap-l> ie: how would I run a battery of scripts via cron using virtualenv? workon blah && script && deactivate ?
<rick_h_> no
<snap-l> rick_h_: Trust me, I've been there with a lot of projects
<snap-l> Oh, I get what you're saying
<rick_h_> so what I've generally done is create a single master script that loads/runs things
<snap-l> it'll work that way?
 * snap-l tries an experiment
<rick_h_> then cron is /home/rharding/src/project/bin/python /home/rharding/src/project/scripts/cronish.py
<rick_h_> and done
<snap-l> NICE!
<snap-l> It's like magic
<rick_h_> well it's really all a virtualenv is
<rick_h_> a new python binary
<rick_h_> with all python paths/etc there for your use
<snap-l> shush, let me think it's magic.
<rick_h_> oh right..magic...ooooohhhhhh :)
<snap-l> but that does answer a lingering question of how virtualenv works
<snap-l> (which is awesome)
<snap-l> going to script up some tests to make sure our sandbox is working, and wondered if I could do it via cron
<snap-l> Something strange is afoot in this house
<snap-l> Sound on my speakers is crackly.
<snap-l> Going to scheck if a reboot makes a difference.
<rick_h_> http://etherpad.org/2011/08/22/major-release-etherpad-lite-v1/
<rick_h_> the demo at the bottom is kind of cool
<rick_h_> replaying the timeline is interesting
<brousch> darn, a python question i could've answered and i missed my chance
<rick_h_> man, loving that livereload
<rick_h_> so fun
<brousch> i used cronjobs and virtualenvs on dreamhost for barcampgr
<brousch> rick_h_: i sat in on a jquery BOF at barcamp and the conclusion they eventually came to was that people are starting to write web apps as an api and a web/mobile frontend. sound familiar?
<rick_h_> no, that's madness :)
<brousch> it was pretty interesting to see a totally different group of devs come around to that same conclusion
<snap-l> http://www.meijer.com/s/big-steals/_/N-5io?icid=hpdsmon <- Hahahahaha
<snap-l> This looks like one of those stupid cat toys.
<rick_h_>  pretty much
<jrwren> robomob!
<snap-l> Brilliant.
<brousch> i have doghair balls bigger than that thing
<snap-l> *cough*
<snap-l> http://brucemanthehero.bandcamp.com/album/awakening-of-a-superhero-chiptune-album
<snap-l> Love the cover. That is all.
<gamerchick02> $25 for a dustmop?
<snap-l> gamerchick02: No, $25 for a rollyball with a cage
<snap-l> a rollyball with a clock timer. ;)
<gamerchick02> nice. i suppose...
<gamerchick02> heh
<gamerchick02> stupid question: why do some programs not show up in my unity launcher?
<gamerchick02> gwibber is not showing up at all.
<gamerchick02> i shouldn't have to restart to have stuff showing up properly. gah.
<snap-l> You mean the sidebar?
<snap-l> Gwibber will start up by default, but stays hidden until you bring up that window
<gamerchick02> the window is active but there's no gwibber icon in the launcher.
<snap-l> wb
<gamerchick02> good god, i feel like a newb. how the heck can i change my farking clock to get it to show the date and stuff? I've gone into the menu and whatnot, but it won't save.
<snap-l> farking? Such language.
<gamerchick02> yes.
<snap-l> First off, are you setting the time manually or via the net?
<gamerchick02> net.
<snap-l> install ntp
<gamerchick02> i'm in unity, and using the Time & Date settings
<snap-l> install ntp
<gamerchick02> yessir
<gamerchick02> done
<snap-l> OK, it should be corrected
<snap-l> 4:32pm?
<gamerchick02> yep
<snap-l> Is that what you wanted? :)
<gamerchick02> well, i want to show the weekday and month and stuff too
<gamerchick02> there's no "save" button on the Time & Date window. >_<
<snap-l> that should just show up under the Clock tab
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> it does
<snap-l> Is it not saving between login?
<gamerchick02> i probably should log out and back in again.
<gamerchick02> AGAIN.
<gamerchick02> bbiab
<snap-l> np
<gamerchick02> it's not saving ANYTHING between sessions.
<gamerchick02> i did an upgraded to gnome 3, got pissed, and then did a repo purge on it.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: OK, I think you may have a bigger problem.
<gamerchick02> so... yeah
<snap-l> You might want to do the following
<snap-l> 1) Log out of gnome / unity / X
<snap-l> 2) CTRL-ALT-F1
<snap-l> 3) Log into the console
<snap-l> 4) cd .. (so you should be under /home
<gamerchick02> ok
<snap-l> 5) mv current_home current_home.old
<snap-l> 6) mkdir current_home
<snap-l> and at your leisure, copy over the files from current_home.old to the new current_home.
<snap-l> and copy over the dotfile settings as you vet them to make sure they're OK.
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> ok
<snap-l> ie .bashrc, .vimrc, etc.
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> wait
<snap-l> are you comfortable with using cp?
<gamerchick02> before i do anything, i'm moving all my files to my external drive
<snap-l> copy the files, don't move
<gamerchick02> ok
<snap-l> Better to have two backups than one
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> copy
<snap-l> rsync. ;)
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> i'm actually copying over none of the dot files, methinks
<gamerchick02> that stuff can all be recreated.
<snap-l> don't be so sure
<snap-l> copy it all
<snap-l> worst case, you won't need them if you copy them
<snap-l> worst case if you don't copy them is you will
<gamerchick02> ah
<brousch> debian is looking good to me as a fallback distro
<gamerchick02> ok
<brousch> everything i've tried in a VM has worked
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> cool, regarding Debian.
<gamerchick02> does it have Gnome Shell?
<Blazeix> it does have it, in the experimental repo
<brousch> the default gnome is still non-3
<gamerchick02> ok
<Blazeix> fedora is a good distro for playing with gnome shell, too
<gamerchick02> i've heard that
<gamerchick02> Fab uses it all the time.
<gamerchick02> he loves fedora
<brousch> fabio?
<snap-l> Fabsh
<gamerchick02> yeah. Fabsh.
<gamerchick02> sorry, i thought everyone here listened to linux outlaws.
<snap-l> Fabsh on identi.ca has turned me off to ever taking that show seriously.
<gamerchick02> he's rather outspoken
<snap-l> That's like saying the pope is rather Catholic.
<gamerchick02> well. i was trying to be nice.
<snap-l> I think he's the first dual-core human being where his mouth works completely independantly of his mind.
<brousch> i find them too annoying with little informational content
<gamerchick02> hehe
<gamerchick02> i get more out of LO than I do a TV newscast, so... yeah.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: That's not saying much. ;)
<gamerchick02> it's actually saying a lot since i pretty much only watch PBS.
<snap-l> Oh, OK
<gamerchick02> ie, the NewsHour.
<snap-l> I was thinking you were referring to Saginaw and Detroit news.
<gamerchick02> i mean, LO covers more stuff I actually give to shits about
<gamerchick02> HAHAHAHAHAHA
<gamerchick02> the Saginaw News is the biggest waste of paper this planet has ever seen
<gamerchick02> the newscasters on TV are pretty much crap too.
<gamerchick02> have you seen our local news, snap-l?
<gamerchick02> a big fat joke.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: I've seen news programs outside of Detroit
<gamerchick02> i used to watch channel 12, but they've decided to try "investigative reporting"
<gamerchick02> well, i never know. :)
<snap-l> Detroit is a "major market", so we tend to get the higher-paid talent
<snap-l> but yeah, some of these programs you have to wonder if they shouldn't be covering pork bellies
<gamerchick02> meh. money doesn't always buy talent. i watched some of the Detroit news and they were just as vapid as the ones up here.
<snap-l> Note I didn't say better
<snap-l> just higher paid. ;)
<gamerchick02> "vapid"
<gamerchick02> i like that word.
<gamerchick02> i hope i get the letters to use it in words with friends
<gamerchick02> oh, speaking of, does anyone here play WWF?
<snap-l> Wordfeud
<gamerchick02> android, iphone, facebook?
<snap-l> Android and iPhone
<gamerchick02> also, thinking about rooting le phone so i can get rid of le ads on my apps.
<gamerchick02> or something.
<snap-l> I hopped on that because SOMEONE (jcastro) said it was awesome until EA released the official Scrabble the same week. ;)
<gamerchick02> oh really?
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> there's a "one click root" for my Optimus V i've heard about on the internets... not sure if i should try it or not.
<gamerchick02> kinda wary, as i don't want to brick my phone.
<brousch> i play wwf
<gamerchick02> copying files is slow. i can hardly wait til i get a job and a new computer with some USB 3.0.
<gamerchick02> username? i'm gamerchick02 (how original, i know)
<brousch> brousch
<gamerchick02> your'e as original as i am.
<brousch> i don't like to make people guess. i am brousch pretty much everywhere
<gamerchick02> :)
<jcastro> snap-l: they released it like 2 weeks after I discovered WWF
<gamerchick02> what is that Zoosk thing? i get it's some sort of silly dating app...
<gamerchick02> but it seems scammy to me
<snap-l> jcastro: All I know is I was abandoned. ;)
<snap-l> *sniff*
<gamerchick02> 56 gb in my /home
<gamerchick02> i never knew i'd ever have a /home that big.
<gamerchick02> (and yes, that's big. i count these files as stuff i can't recreate, and when i was in college and fixing my computer every 3 months i had probably 2 gigs of files i couldn't lose)
<gamerchick02> mostly word docs.
<gamerchick02> usb flash drives FTW.
<gamerchick02> and even 3.5" floppies. good god, i'm old.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: You're only old if you have documents on 8" floppies
<snap-l> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming
<snap-l> OK, I need a judgement call
<gamerchick02> no, i don't.
<gamerchick02> we did have 5.25" floppies though
<snap-l> This band has two songs that are completely kick-ass
<snap-l> one has accordion, and the other has a juice-harp
<snap-l> which should I play?
<Blazeix> both, at the same time
<snap-l> Blazeix: Not gonna happen
<snap-l> I think the Juice-Harp wins.
<snap-l> It too has accordion
<snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/812851 <-Here's the track that I'm not currently playing
<snap-l> If this doesn't make you want to jump up and down, I'll assum you're dead.
<Blazeix> https://github.com/codedance/Retaliation
<snap-l> Ah, hell... posted the wrong link. ;)
<snap-l> Oh well, now you have a preview.
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> going to a picnic tonight. shutting down. see everyone later!
<snap-l> Wait, I'm so confused.
<snap-l> No, that's the one that I'm not putting in the show. ;)
<snap-l> Feh, I suck.
<snap-l> Blazeix: That is awesome. :)
<brousch> rick_h_: i think you could use this, with a few upgrades http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/08/22/2031229/Symbolic-Violence-Beats-Lava-Lamps-All-To-Pieces
<brousch> send one to each team member. make sure NC guy gets the one with poison darts
<Blazeix> brousch: heh, I just posted the github version of that
<Blazeix> you could just buy one, and have it hit every team member. I guess you'd have to soup it up to hit NC.
<jrwren> BAM
<rick_h_> brousch: awesome
<snap-l> Working on OMC and a club metal episode
<rick_h_> ok, after looking into that more, it does work under linux
<rick_h_> it's darn tempting to order...must not be materialist pig
<snap-l> Materialist Pig?
<rick_h_> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming ftw as well
<rick_h_> I'm realizing I've got a ton of gadget bits around the office
<snap-l> Shit, it's a way to bop your co-workers in the head for breaking the build.
<rick_h_> too many toys
<rick_h_> well I couldn't use it for that. We're all in diff cubes too far apart
<snap-l> OK, who replaced rick_h_ with a Buddha?
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> God, i really hate wordpress sometimes
<snap-l> Can't upload a file, even though I've got the permissions pretty-well wide open
<snap-l> oh FFS.
<snap-l> Apparently when I moved the site, it stored the full path
<snap-l> so it was trying to write to the old path
<snap-l> silly Wordpress.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-23
<brousch> snap-l: just finished ep 24 of omc. Slash Dementia is the gem of that episode
<snap-l> Cool. Glad you enjoyed.
<snap-l> brousch: You didn't like The Dying Wizard?
<brousch> it was ok
<snap-l> http://godsoffire.bandcamp.com/album/hanukkah-gone-metal <- I can't wait until December
<snap-l> No Gelt, No Glory
<brousch> oy vey
<rick_h_> this is what I love about aws: http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2011/08/amazon-elasticache-distributed-in-memory-caching.html
<rick_h_> always something new, memcache in the cloud
<Wolfger> snap-l: No gold, no glory???
<snap-l> gelt. gelt, not gold.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Yay, now I can harness the full power of PHP in the cloud. ;)
<brousch> hah, i knew it
<brousch> i knew you were a closet PHP enthusiast
<Wolfger> my bad... mistook gelt for geld.
<snap-l> brousch: http://www.addedbytes.com/blog/if-php-were-british/
<snap-l> Were PHP to adopt this, I should be inclined to use it
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> snap-l: psh, I'm going to push it as a way to not need to ramp up a freaking 128gb of ram ec2 instance
<rick_h_> shove your crap off to memcache for a bit instead and reduce that damn memory footprint of the app
<rick_h_> mmm, thinkpad http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/23/lenovo-thinkpad-tablet
<brousch> ouch $500. for $500 you could buy 5 touchpads. that's one for each appendage
<rick_h_> except you can't find 5 touchpads
<snap-l> Except that you'd need to make a beowulf cluster of those 5 touchpads to equal the CPU of the Thinkpad.
<brousch> not true. they operate in parallel since you are using one with each appendage
<snap-l> Ah, true multitasking
<brousch> so it's like 1.2GHz quint-core
<snap-l> Did any of you fools get a Touchpad?
<brousch> B&N cancelled me
<snap-l> "No, Ben, No, you really don't need this. Be happy with what you have. Seriously".
<brousch> something like that
<brousch> i do like the nook
<brousch> but at $99 i could justify a tablet for my son
<snap-l> What's with people giving their kids tablet machines?
<snap-l> A friend of ours got bored with her iPad and gave it to her 4 year old.
<rick_h_> yea, I hear a lot of tablet owners end up not using theirs
<rick_h_> personally I'd like one for conferences, etc. Not sure I'd use one around the house daily
<rick_h_> but would like something mobile to play with/test apps against
<rick_h_> it's webkit, but not the best webkit
<rick_h_> still, for $99 it's a test device at min that can surf/etc at a conference
<Wolfger> snap-l: haven't you seen Serenity? Children of the future do all their schoolwork on tablets.
<Wolfger> I'm pretty sure that was in ST:TNG as well...
<Wolfger> so the question is: why *wouldn't* you give you kid a tablet?
<Wolfger> are you trying to cripple him?
<Wolfger> are you trying to cripple him? ;-)
<Wolfger> doh... sorry for the dupe. Stupid keyboard
<Wolfger> that wouldn't have happened if I had a tablet....
<snap-l> rick_h_: I don't go to enough conferences that a tablet would work for my needs. ;)
<snap-l> though JoDee may claim otherwise (about going to enough conferences. ;) )
<Wolfger> JoDee thinks you go to enough conferences to justify getting you a tablet? Awesome.
<snap-l> Wolfger: On that she also disagrees. ;)
<snap-l> You all seem to forget that I was an early tablet adopter. :)
<snap-l> Nokia 770. :)
<Wolfger> bah. Tablets didn't exist before the iPad. :-D
<snap-l> And while that was essentially a trumped up Palmtop without any of the productivity software to make such a thing useful, it makes me leery of tablets.
<snap-l> If the only use-case you can make for the tablet is "surf the internet on the couch", let me be the first to challenge that assertion. ;)
<snap-l> (Although I still have my eyes on the nook, though I need some confirmation on the PDF reader that my limited testing hasn't fleshed out)
<snap-l> Nook color, that is
<snap-l> but, I can understand the technolust.
<snap-l> Open Metalcast Episode 28, where we learn that the Ozark Harp trumps the accordion: http://ur1.ca/4yejl
<brousch> snap-l: pdf reader on NC is nice
<brousch> i use mine mostly for convore, ereader, hootsuite, email so far
<rick_h_> brousch: you can't say that until snap-l tries it
<rick_h_> he's got the most trying pdfs I've seen
<brousch> well you can view 1/2 of a letter sized pdf very nicely, or a full letter pdf slightly hard to read
<rick_h_> watch out world, just bought an android book
<brousch> ah, java
<rick_h_> *sigh* yea
<brousch> *cough*phonegap*cough*
<rick_h_> can you do android intents with phonegap?
<rick_h_> and can you get native widets with phonegap?
<brousch> https://github.com/phonegap/phonegap-plugins/tree/master/Android/WebIntent
<brousch> aptana titanium might be better at that stuff
<brousch> http://developer.appcelerator.com/apidoc/mobile/1.7.1/Titanium.Android.Intent-object
<rick_h_> my boss wants me to play around with some mobile stuff more so I'm going to try to see if I can get them to let me play.
<rick_h_> might be a bookie android app using the api at some point if I can talk them into it
<brousch> your biggest pain-point will be using eclipse
<rick_h_> yea, that's for sure
<rick_h_> thuogh I'm hoping to be able to edit in vim with eclipse int he nexte workspace
<rick_h_> at least keep my editing separate from project build/generation/eclipsy things
<brousch> i think you can
<rick_h_> fortunately the laptop has 8gb of ram. I'll just basically find that jvm ram setting and crank it to 11
<brousch> though maybe not with titanium
<rick_h_> "here eclipse...4gb for you...now stfu"
<brousch> bah, it doesn't need that much
<rick_h_> I'm not going to try to argue with it, consider it a randsom payoff
<rick_h_> hell, I'm doing work right now at 877mb of ram
<rick_h_> I've got 4gb to spare
<brousch> heh, i just opened it to check and it still had Bookie open
<brousch> aparently i haven't used it since then
<rick_h_> ?
<rick_h_> what's "it"?
<brousch> eclipse
<brousch> well, aptana pydev
<snap-l> I managed to crash rick_h_'s Kindle with one of my PDFs. ;)
<jrwren> rick_h_++ ElastiCache is awesome.
<brousch> snap-l: email one to me. i'll try it
<snap-l> brousch: Do you have access to U1?
<snap-l> The file is 130MB
<brousch> i think so
<snap-l> brousch: Here's one sample: http://ubuntuone.com/p/1CJ0/
<snap-l> The other one is syncing as we speak
<snap-l> I have a few that the Kobo can't deal with either. :)
<snap-l> sent them to Kobo support, and they shrugged.
<snap-l> I can't wait to get this printer
<snap-l> has instructions for how to install your own https certificate on it. :)
<snap-l> Also can do Internet fax.
<snap-l> Shit, it even supports LDAP
<snap-l> Also supports network scanning, which is a huge plus for me.
<snap-l> Previously had to get out te USB cable to do any scanning
<snap-l> will also scan to USB stick
<brousch> rick_h_: heh, Aptana is using 550MB with an empty android project open
<snap-l> Nice.
<brousch> it's kind of silly how i got the book to my nook. download from your link, save to dropbox, upload to dropbox, download from dropbox on nook
<brousch> omg. google voice transcribed a lengthy voicemail exactly right
<Wolfger> rick_h_: you got the O'R dotd?
<Wolfger> brousch: no way, I don't believe you.
<brousch> snap-l: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/screenshot_7.png
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/screenshot_9.png
<brousch> ss7 is viewing using the Nook Reader, which refused to rotate. You can see the print is tiny and barely readable.
<brousch> ss9 is using the Adobe Reader app which did rotate. It's viewing half of a page
<brousch> takes maybe 2 seconds to turn a page
<brousch> Wolfger: "GoodÂ Morning.Â ThisÂ isÂ theÂ animalÂ MedicalÂ CenterÂ callingÂ toÂ remindÂ youÂ weÂ haveÂ TerraÂ andÂ DuncanscheduledÂ forÂ groomingÂ Wednesday,Â AugustÂ 24th,Â pleaseÂ checkÂ themÂ inÂ betweenÂ 7:30Â atÂ 8:30Â AM.Â IfyouÂ areÂ unableÂ toÂ keepÂ theseÂ appointments.Â PleaseÂ callÂ usÂ atÂ 531-7387Â beforeÂ 6:30Â PMÂ onÂ TuesdayeveningÂ toÂ avoidÂ aÂ groomingÂ noÂ showÂ fee.Â ThankÂ youÂ andÂ haveÂ aÂ niceÂ day
<brousch> the squished-together words are just copy and paste artifacts
<brousch> oh damn, there is one mistake, an "at" instead of an "and"
<snap-l> brousch: Ah, that's interesting
<snap-l> I tried the built-in app downloading a preview from e23, and it seemed to reflow the text.
<snap-l> but if you have access to the Adobe app, that changes things.
<brousch> PDFs that are text instead of pictures can often be changed in the Nook Reader by changing the font size like a regular ebook
<snap-l> brousch: Right
<snap-l> brousch: Can you zoom in with the Adobe reader?
<snap-l> ie: on the iPhone, I can pinch zoom instead of rotate.
<brousch> yeah, you can zoom
<brousch> pinch/spread
<snap-l> Hmmm...
<snap-l> (checking to see if the kindle-killer is finished uploading)
<brousch> i think i had to root to get Adobe Reader
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Interesting that you have to root to install an alternate PDF reader.
<snap-l> It'd be interesting to see if they'll add it as an app download in the future.
<brousch> their app store is pathetic
<brousch> 475 apps
<brousch> also need root for dropbox
<rick_h_> Wolfger: what's the "O'R dotd"?
<rick_h_> hah, just got two emails about a late payment for my paid off ford
<snap-l> rick_h_: For the Taurus?
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> total spam, but cool they knew I had a ford 2006 taurus through ford credit
<snap-l> You should send Ford Credit the note and tell them that their partners are scum.
<snap-l> Seriously, that's bullshit.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Let me guess why you bought the Learning Android Book? :)
<brousch> because android is awesome?
<snap-l> 50% deal from O'Reilly. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I went ahead and got it
<rick_h_> work has an android book he got from the borders sell off as well
<rick_h_> might get to play with it some at work
<snap-l> Oh, nice.
<snap-l> Must make sure those laptop fans aren't blocked. ;)
<snap-l> Fucking U1
<rick_h_> give up...
<Wolfger> rick_h_: my lazy way of typing O'Reilly Deal Of The Day
<Wolfger> O'R dotd
<rick_h_> Wolfger: ah, gotcha
<snap-l> I have never seen anything more incapable of dealing with 100+ MB files than U1
<rick_h_> well, I actually got it through amazon. Their kindle price was $2 more, but I can use the cloud reader on it
<Wolfger> snap-l: Atari 400? ;-)
<Wolfger> Vic-20 with a datasette
<Blazeix> hah, one of my friends just contacted Oracle for support. They told him that in order to fix his issue he should use IE6.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Still white-stallions by comparison
<Blazeix> that's pretty bold of them.
<snap-l> Blazeix: Did he tell them to stop living in 1999?
<snap-l> You know, when Oracle was at it's prime too? :)
<Wolfger> to fix his issue he should use what is probably the worst browser in the history of mankind?
<snap-l> Wolfger: With the most expensive database in the history of mankind. ;)
<snap-l> (discounting IBM, of course)
<jrwren> did someone say vic20?
<snap-l> Yep, we're going back
<jrwren> 1.5 weeks until UBU Global Bug Jam... and xfer of Amiga with 10s of floppies to snap-l
<snap-l> screw 40 columns.
<snap-l> jrwren: Woo woo!
<snap-l> I'll need to bring a big bag
<snap-l> brousch: http://ubuntuone.com/p/1CKV/
<brousch> snap-l: i'll try it after lunch
<snap-l> Thanks.
<nullspace> check out this http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=20&weekday=tue
<nullspace> I approve of that JS
<snap-l> http://www.meijer.com/s/big-steals/_/N-5io?CAWELAID=677385714&cmpid=dstue
<snap-l> brousch: Isn't that the tablet that you purchased prior?
<brousch> looks like it
<brousch> snap-l: the problem with that one is the roms are sketchy. you can use an ancient android and have full multimedia, or a newer android rom but lack and graphics acceleration
<brousch> that was as of 6 months ago
<brousch> snap-l: that big pdf opens and views fine, but it takes 10s to turn the page
<_stink_> anyone else here feel the earthquake?
<rick_h_> yea, felt it here
<rick_h_> everyone's freaking out
<_stink_> haha
<rick_h_> but funny that some people right next to me didn't feel it
<rick_h_> I thought it was construction tbh
<rick_h_> was pretty light
<_stink_> we all just stuck our heads out of the offices and said "hey, is that an earthquake?"  then went back to work
<rick_h_> yea, basically
<_stink_> yeah, i just felt some dizziness, mostly
<brousch> we have earthquakes all day long thanks to the car shredder next door. i would never know if we had a real one
<_stink_> hah
<rick_h_> I've got family in VA so checking in on them
<rick_h_> http://xkcd.com/723/
<Blazeix> thank god I'm not going insane. nobody else in my building felt it.
<_stink_> haha
<rick_h_> damn I love this livereload
<rick_h_> my boss is all "but it's ruby..." it's awesome!
<snap-l> OK, Thank you... I thought it was an earthquake
<brousch> what's livereload?
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mockko/livereload
<brousch> ah, nice
<Blazeix> it seems like that could be a bash script, rather than ruby
<rick_h_> probably
<rick_h_> but it imlpements a server side that the chrome extension talks to
<rick_h_> probably easier to write that in ruby, ionotify bits and all
<snap-l> Anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong here?
<snap-l> In [1]: from BeautifulSoup import BeautifulStoneSoup
<snap-l> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
<snap-l> ImportError                               Traceback (most recent call last)
<snap-l> /home/craig/<ipython-input-1-c4715e218eee> in <module>()
<snap-l> (soaptest)craig@lister:~$ pip install BeautifulSoup
<snap-l> Requirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): BeautifulSoup in ./.virtualenvs/soaptest/lib/python2.7/site-packages
<snap-l> ----> 1 from BeautifulSoup import BeautifulStoneSoup
<snap-l> (soaptest)craig@lister:~$ which ipython
<snap-l> /home/craig/.virtualenvs/soaptest/bin/ipython
<rick_h_> pastebin pls. try just "import BeautifulSoup"
<rick_h_> does that pass?
<snap-l> No
<rick_h_> what about bypassing ipython, just python?
<snap-l> ImportError: No module named BeautifulSoup
<snap-l> That's from regular python
<rick_h_> python -m "import BeautifulSoup"
<rick_h_> which pip
<rick_h_> pip uninstall BeautifulSoup
<rick_h_> pip install BeautifulSoup
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/387/
<rick_h_> which pip points to /home/craig/.virtualenvs/soaptest/bin/ ?
<rick_h_> no idea I guess
<snap-l> Even creating a new environment doesn't appear to work.
<rick_h_> I mean you can verify that the python is in the right place, that the site-packages dir has the BeautifulSoup package
<snap-l> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/388/
<snap-l> http://superuser.com/questions/325177/beautifulsoup-not-found-after-installing-via-pip <- Apparehtly I'm not the only one. :)
<snap-l> What a pain
<brousch> snap-l: i just made a virtualenv and it fals for me too
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, apparently 4.0b is borked.
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> Althought 3.2.0 isn't giving me any more love.
<snap-l> Ah, there is goes.
<snap-l> Thanks!
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/103178/how-to-handle-can-you-add-just-a-few-more-fields-type-of-requests-from-customer
<rick_h_> did you reactivate the venv?
<rick_h_> I have had that, where I install something and it's not picked up until I reactivate the venv
<snap-l> rick_h_: I tried that as well. It appears that version is just not working the same
<rick_h_> hmm, a rename of hte package? is it cap'd the same in the site-pacakges dir?
<rick_h_> meh, I can't imagine it'd do that
<snap-l> I just installed 3.2.0 and I'm happy
<rick_h_> cool
<brousch> ug, running titanium studio + android emulator used like 1.5GB of ram
<nullspace> besides the apple hate, why android?
<brousch> nullspace: what else is there?
<nullspace> iOS
<brousch> but we hate apple
<brousch> you have to own an apple to dev for iOS, and then you have to kneal before jobs so he will bless your app
<nullspace> true that is annoying, I do like that I can just run an java app on it
<brousch> the whole thing is locked into evil
<snap-l> brousch speaks truth
<brousch> i'll take uglier and clunkier, thank you
<brousch> snap-l: did you see my report on your big pdf on the nook color?
<snap-l> Yeah, I did
<snap-l> That's to be expected, but glad it works.
<brousch> heh, 10s page turns are expected?
<snap-l> That is one of the biggest bastards
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a complicated PDF
<snap-l> Take a careful look at it on the page.
<brousch> i zoomed in and it took 20s to redraw
<snap-l> Sweaty.
<rick_h_> nullspace: java > objective C, a lang you can only really use on apple hardware
<rick_h_> android > ios because I can easily side load/deploy tablets with it
<rick_h_> android > ios because I don't have to own a mac to dev for it
<rick_h_> android > ios goes on and on
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-24
<snap-l> printer acquired.
<snap-l> JoDee is watching the Voyager episode where Janwway and Seven of Nine reenact Anne Sullivan and Helen Keller
<rick_h_> is that good or bad?
<snap-l> it's pathetic
<rick_h_> ah, well in that case...
<snap-l> Also, loving this printer.
<snap-l> Everyone should get one while they're on sale at Staples.
<snap-l> It's a behemoth
<rick_h_> what did you end up getting?
<snap-l> Brother MFC-8480DN
<snap-l> Ethernet, with Linux support
<rick_h_> cool
<snap-l> It has a telnet server.
<snap-l> show
<jjesse> everyone having a good night?
<_stink_> car broke down on the way home from work :P
<_stink_> but after that, sure.
<jjesse> boo
<jjesse> hope it isn't too expensive
<_stink_> yeah, hoping just the fuel pump.
<snap-l> blergh
<snap-l> _stink_: glad to hear you are ok
<brousch> rick_h_: did you see the manning deal of the day?
<brousch> half off Sass and Compass in Action
<brousch> i swear they stalk you
<rick_h_> yea, I saw that, didn't end up getting it
<rick_h_> honestly, not sure there's enough there for a book, but not a fan of manning stuff
<Wolfger> o/
<rick_h_> reminder _stink_ snap-l widox and company CHC moved: http://coffeehousecode.appspot.com/locations/detroit.html
<rick_h_> brousch: did my first app engine push lol
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> rick_h_: I might be late because JoDee's teaching right up until 8pm
<brousch> oh crap, it's wednesday already
<rick_h_> brousch: yes it is sir
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, cool
<rick_h_> krondor: ^^ as well
<rick_h_> krondor: how did the android meeting go?
<krondor> rick_h_:  bad turnout (5 people).  Though I did help a guy root and get cwm recovery on his galaxy tab 7"
<brousch> krondor: why do you think the turnout was bad?
<brousch> i'm prodding ptenhoopen_ into getting an android group going here
<ptenhoopen_> krondor:  What was the purpose of the meeting?  user group?
<ptenhoopen_> brousch:  Hopefully soon!
<krondor> brousch: a few people messaged said they were out of town or sick.  Probably would have had near 10 otherwise (seems to be the average).
<krondor> ptenhoopen_: yeah user group
<brousch> group attendence does drop in the summer
<rick_h_> yea, that's true
<ptenhoopen_> For dev? Or general usage/modding?
<rick_h_> but it's also a new group
<krondor> I think the group needs more presence to attract more people.  A dedicated website maybe not just a link off of i3's and some more focus on what content will be discussed meeting to meeting.
<rick_h_> krondor: yea, details sure helps
<snap-l> also, pie
<rick_h_> sucks, to really get things off the ground really does require a bunch of work/planning
<krondor> ptenhoopen_:  we are kind of covering all things while we figured out the interest levels.  It seems a mix of people so far 1/3 dev 1/3 hacks 1/3 just user (I got this phone what can I do etc...).
<ptenhoopen_> Cool
<krondor> only two formal topics so far have been how to setup the android dev environment on linux/windows and last meeting was how to root (also why root).
<ptenhoopen_> We're thinking of starting a dev group in GR.  But maybe the usage part might be cool too.
<rick_h_> if I was going to do dev, I'd try to do mobile dev vs just android I think
<krondor> I actually thought more general hackerspace members at i3 would be more interested in the; how to interface aurdino to android
<rick_h_> then you'd have enough to skip the usage stuff more
<krondor> rick_h_: that's true we had a couple of guys show up for the build env. topic that were iphone devs that were looking at getting into android.
<rick_h_> yea, I mean you might get some that switch attendence depending on the topic
<rick_h_> but some would come to both, and overall get a wider net
<ptenhoopen_> rick_h_:  I considered covering more than Android too but the people I talked too were more interested in that than iOS.  We'd probably cover phonegap stuff too.
<rick_h_> ptenhoopen_: cool
<krondor> I was at this angelbeat conference thingy.  Compuware was there telling everyone to scrap their web app dev and make phone apps.  They literally said "we've all been assuming the browser is the future platform when we should have thought android and ios were".
<krondor> I still feel phone apps are an interim step toward the browser is the platform again w/ html5 webgl etc...
<brousch> right, because a mobile app means the web is dead
<krondor> yeah I was just thinking really compuware?
<brousch> nobody uses a computer at work or at home for surfing the web. they all use ipads now
<krondor> even if they all used ipads.. do you really want an app for each tiny website?  Installed locally?
<snap-l> krondor: It would appear that every single vendor out there would like something like that. :)
<brousch> no, it is silly
<snap-l> Then you can see their logo on your home screen
<snap-l> WElcome back to 1995. "Set our site as your home page"
 * krondor goes to install the great lakes crossing app
<snap-l> feh
<brousch> i think a mobile version of your web site is more important than app for most companies
<snap-l> Of course Compuware is going to say that, though. They're still floundering trying to figure their place in this world. ;)
<snap-l> and apps = $$$
<brousch> an app should provide a specific set of tasks
<snap-l> and Compuware would be more than happy to sell you that app. ;)
<krondor> I really didn't get their pitch actually because here they are trying to sell vantage to people to monitor their website performance (simulated clicks and measures of response time and such), then telling people to scrap their web dev.
<krondor> made no sense to me
<brousch> heh
<snap-l> krondor: Ahem, let me translate.
<brousch> http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/08/24/0110257/Smartphones-the-New-Home-of-Crapware
<snap-l> "Stop developing web apps in house, and let us do everything for you. We're experts in this field, and you have no hope to survive. Make your time".
<krondor> snap-l:  ah, ok now I see the light.
<krondor> brousch: ++ and yet another reason to root
<snap-l> brousch: This is why Apple is very adamant about keeping control of the iPhone experience.
<snap-l> If you let the carriers have control, you get bullshit.
<snap-l> marketing has no taste.
<brousch> at least you can uninstall PC crapware
<brousch> hopefully the google/moto phones will not have crapware
<snap-l> brousch: This goes back to the 286 days, if not earlier
 * brousch realizes google is an ad company
<brousch> crap
<snap-l> half-hearted, half-baked versions of shit software.
<snap-l> brousch: Google is very sensitive to the user experience
<brousch> this is why any phone i buy has to be on cyanogenmod's supported list
<snap-l> which is why their landing page is very clean
<snap-l> If nothing else, Google has th same aestherics as Apple
<snap-l> or very similar.
<snap-l> So, since we're PC developers now, does that mean in 10 years if we don't adapt to mobile development, we'll be regarded the same way that mainframe developers were regarded when we started in this business?
<Wolfger> snap-l: What do you mean you don't code everything in Java ME? How archaic!
<snap-l> Wolfger: Don't make me replace you with an EJB.
<ptenhoopen_> brousch:  I looked at the cyanogen device list and thought it would be bigger.
<ptenhoopen_> I'm getting a Droid 3 and it isn't listed.
<ptenhoopen_> :(
<ptenhoopen_> Only the original Droid appears on the list.
<snap-l> ptenhoopen_: Could be an older list
<brousch> locked bootloader i think
<snap-l> Noticed that with printer / scanner lists that are volunteer-supported.
<rick_h_> krondor: I have a friend that hired out some mobile stuff to compuware
<rick_h_> not happy, project was a mess
<rick_h_> was a fun conversation at pyohio this year
<rick_h_> mobile web is the win
<rick_h_> you're just going to try to reinvent the web, links, clicks, tracking, insight into customer experience/etc you just don't get ootb with mobile dev these days
<snap-l> There's certain things that work well as web, and other things that you want to have an app
<brousch> snap-l++
<snap-l> messaging apps are 100% better as mobile apps
<rick_h_> though I do wish the tools were better, thinking of redoing bookie's mobile from group up without any toolkit like jquery mobile
<rick_h_> snap-l: why is that?
<snap-l> rick_h_: Well, on the iPhone it means that we don't have to keep Safari up all the time
<snap-l> and you can have push notifications
<snap-l> Google talk is a PITA as a web app on the iPhone
<snap-l> twitter is usable as an app on the iPhone
<brousch> think about irc as a mobile webapp
<rick_h_> yea, I guess. Native notifications, real background, etc not really going to fly on iphone web is it
<snap-l> Internet Radio is a scosh more usable as an app (but not that much)
<rick_h_> there's Blazeix
<brousch> also anything that needs to work offline
<rick_h_> Blazeix: reminder, new location for CHC tonight
<rick_h_> the chc website is updated
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, but the amazon reader app has me rethinking that
<brousch> or anything that needs to be accessed by more than 1 app (contacts)
<Blazeix> rick_h_: ok, thanks!
<rick_h_> if they can do that offline...things are getting a lot better than I thought they were
<brousch> supposedly html5 offline stuff is a PITA for dev
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, that's apis. There is defintely a need for more api stuff
<snap-l> rick_h_: Also, networking on a mobile device can go from awesome wifi at home to boondocks bits
<snap-l> and loading a website over boondocks bits is not fun. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, but if you do the app right, that first time you get the site from wifi you should have 99% of hte bits you need for the next call
<snap-l> (boondocks bits are bits that are made of wood, so they get caught in the phone)
<nullspace> hmm I wonder if mobile borwsers support deflate ...
<snap-l> nullspace: gzip compression, or something else?
<rick_h_> nullspace: yea, they all do gzip
<nullspace> well that will help
<brousch> is there a way to detect someone's speed and serve up a lower-bandwidth site?
<snap-l> brousch: Not reliably
<nullspace> I suspect you pass them large image that's never used and have a js call back home once it's loaded, but I'd guess that would be pretty hit or miss
<rick_h_> yea, it's something you'd just do as a user selectable option
<rick_h_> start low bandwidth, save a local cache setting
<snap-l> nullspace: Depending on how low-bandwidth they are, you might never finish that transaction. :)
<brousch> user selectable options suck when the widget for the user to select it takes forever to load
<rick_h_> well that can't be allowed
<brousch> i think there are proxy services that will downsize images and compress for you
<nullspace> you could roll your own
<rick_h_> meh, you're just moving hte problem out of your control at that point
<nullspace> brousch: are you talking as a website dev or as a user frustrated with websites ?
<snap-l> You might as well serve up gif files at that point, and welcome 1995.
<brousch> i suppose the biggest issue is giant javascript libraries, but you can get around that by using Google's jquery so it's more likely to be cached.
<brousch> and images, which you can get around by detecting mobile and serving smaller versions
<snap-l> brousch: Never assume cache
<brousch> nullspace: dev
<nullspace> snap-l: you know you have the <table> love
<snap-l> nullspace: Some days, I'm all about the tables. :)
<nullspace> brousch: run yslow against your site
<snap-l> especially when I have a table that I need to represent. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: I disagree, plan and assume cache
<brousch> nullspace: i'm just musing in general, not a specific site
<rick_h_> brousch: get slimmer libraries
<rick_h_> zepto vs jquery if you're doing mobile
<rick_h_> you don't need IE6 fixes in the code
<brousch> true
<rick_h_> don't use all of jquery ui, etc
<rick_h_> get the widgets you use, that's it
<brousch> doesn't that mean more requests?
<rick_h_> and again, get things down on initial page load, but count on cache for rest of app use
<rick_h_> brousch: no, you should be building your JS
<snap-l> rick_h_: I think we have a topic for lococast. ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: hah, ok will make a note
<brousch> ug, now i have to dynamically program my js too?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, you need to "build
<rick_h_> " it
<brousch> and compile my css?
<rick_h_> same for css
<nullspace> rick_h_: don't forget about a JS and CSS compressor
<rick_h_> :)
<rick_h_> nullspace: == biuld
<rick_h_> err build
<snap-l> blergh, I really hate compressors.
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> I just do minify + gzip
<rick_h_> not full compress, but yea
<snap-l> I understand taking 5K source and turning it into 1K spew saves 4k load, but if you ever need to debug it, it's a real PITA
<nullspace> snap-l: thus the compressor
<snap-l> and I'd rather have the source, even if I never look at it
<snap-l> nullspace: How do you mean?
<rick_h_> snap-l: naw, chrome and such have unmin tools
<rick_h_> and production you're not debugging anyway
<snap-l> I call bullshit. ;)
<rick_h_> I mean, if you debug you're .0001% ofthe requests for that file
<rick_h_> and there are ways around that such as debug flags to the url
<nullspace> well I'm speaking from using java so on compile it runs through the js and css and minifies them
<snap-l> I'm talking debugging on the client.
<rick_h_> snap-l: so am I
<rick_h_> there's nothing against a mako template saying:
<snap-l> Right, that was for nullspave
<brousch> nullspace: i suppose on python i'd need a pre-deploy script or something that does those things
<rick_h_> if request.params.debug: include full sources else: include minify
<snap-l> rick_h_: Right, I get that. :)
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, basically.
<rick_h_> this is where a build server and push to build to deploy comes in
<rick_h_> which if you're going to do a serious mobile app/etc you should have
<brousch> uglify.py
<snap-l> rick_h_: And then you have to make sure that your cached copy = the minified copy = the unminified copy.
<rick_h_> meh, as a dev I have caching turned off almost all the time
<rick_h_> means I get the *worst* case
<rick_h_> so clients are only happier from here
<nullspace> snap-l: yeah debugging js on the client kinda goes away for us, but we built in the compressor a js tester that basically runs the js and logs errors on the server side
<brousch> i know some my problems with learning frameworks is that you get all of this thrown at you, on top of the framework itself
<snap-l> rick_h_: I've seen some Heisenbugs that way, though
<rick_h_> brousch: right, understand
<rick_h_> this is why true, all out, dev isn't easy
<rick_h_> it's a lot more than just writing some if statements
<snap-l> Or Excel. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<nullspace> libs == good, frameworks == not so good
<brousch> to do excel the right way you need to break your data out into a separate excel document and then cells to it
<nullspace> that's my feeling
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I mean you can get some strange issues, but usually you end up with tests, and things get boxed into a few possibly issues
<rick_h_> nullspace: bah
<brousch> then abstract out your macros and UI
<rick_h_> frameworks is all about choosing the right tool for the job
<nullspace> I don't think I'll ever be convinced to try another framework, they seem to only bring another layer of absttraction to learn on top of compatibility issues
<rick_h_> well my rule is never use a framework that you don't know/understand what it's doing inside
<rick_h_> it's like any good tool, you want to use vim..great...but you better understand your .vimrc or you're trapped
<brousch> nullspace: that's why I like Flask. tiny amount of framework, plug in the modules you need as you need them
<rick_h_> I've used a ton of frameoworks, php, JS, python, it's all about konwing your framework
<brousch> yes
<rick_h_> shoot, jqueryui, etc are all "frameworks"
<nullspace> I see jquery as a lib
<rick_h_> I said ui
<rick_h_> but even jquery, it gives you certain tools, forces conventions
<rick_h_> ok, well I guess if you've never written your own jquery plugin it's more lib than framework
<rick_h_> but if you've written to their design specs/etc it's a JS framework
<snap-l> Depending on your definition, you can easily slide between calling libraries frameworks. ;)
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> go check out yui3 some time
<rick_h_> I need to figureout how to get the office to move over there
<brousch> holy crap, this really clears things up wrt vim for me http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-most-productive-shortcut-with-vim/1220118#1220118
<snap-l> brousch: That you can spend 2 hours on the internet researching shortcuts for vim? ;)
<rick_h_> brousch: lol, yea it's good stuff
<brousch> no, it explains that it's a language with nouns and verbs and such
<snap-l> brousch: ah, just shot from the title. ;)
<brousch> instead of just a gob of apparently random keyboard shortcuts to memorize
<rick_h_> yea, it was making the rounds this past weekend I think
<snap-l> I think the big problem is nobody used the old DOS-based editors
<rick_h_> really good stuff
<snap-l> er, I mean, not a lot of folks currently doing development used the old DOS-based editors
<snap-l> vi - the programmer's text adventure. ;)
<brousch> people told me i had to learn vim's movement commands, i thought they meant jkl;
<_stink_> i love the anecdote about the origin of the name for grep.
<_stink_> that's the kind of software history that makes me smile.
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, there's a lot more to vi than just up / down / left / right
<Wolfger> there is?
<Wolfger> oh, right.... yy and p too
<Wolfger> and G
<_stink_> {}
<brousch> i think my brain reached its newstuff quota for the day already
<brousch> i feel like i just sat through an hour of a rick_h_ presentation
<rick_h_> brousch: lol, uh oh
<rick_h_> sorry man
<brousch> not your fault this time, it was the vim post
<rick_h_> remember, with vim take one new command a week
<rick_h_> don't over do it or you'll melt back to eclipse
<brousch> i've been using gedit mostly
<brousch> sytax highlighting without all the lag
<brousch> nice project view
<rick_h_> ugh, man that's like using vim without all the benifits
<rick_h_> I mean, I can at least understand eclipse/etc users wanting their wizads/etc
<brousch> uses tabs
<brousch> instead of split windows and such
<rick_h_> tabs are evil that is all ... :P
<jrwren> brousch: you didn't know vim commands are modifier verb?
<brousch> i have been using vim or all things i previously used nano for, server admin stuff mostly
<jrwren> ++
<jrwren> I thought tabs were the tops at first, but splits and using buffers is FAR more valueable
<brousch> jrwren: well it never really clicked with me
<rick_h_> yea, I off learning vim because they didn't have tabs
<brousch> to me dd=delete this line, not delete with this modifier that tells how much to delete
<rick_h_> then 7 came out and I made the jump and realized I was so wrong
<jrwren> brousch: yeah, bummer.
<jrwren> brousch: 0d$ ?
<rick_h_> 0v$d?
<jrwren> is that what I meant?
<jrwren> no, i was right.
<jrwren> oh visual.
<jrwren> i don't use visual unless i need it
<rick_h_> sometimes that extra step/highlight makesthings a bit more clear to users
<rick_h_> if I say v3wd
<jrwren> definitely.
<rick_h_> they see the three words highlight, then delete
<jrwren> i dno't use it because I didnt' know about it and use vi for so many years.
<rick_h_> I use visual a ton for limited find/replace/etc
<rick_h_> indent, etc
<rick_h_> vi"y ...move... p
<brousch> that v is nice
<brousch> very nice
<rick_h_> yea, you can use it all kinds of ways
<rick_h_> vF. for instance helps visualize you're getting to the end of the line and not just to Mr. or something before hitting delete
<rick_h_> sorry, vf.
<rick_h_> F would go backwards
<brousch> no more today! i have a post-it full of movement commands, and v to highlight what i'm working on
<rick_h_> brousch: did you watch: http://lococast.net/archives/241
<rick_h_> make v your lesson of the week
<rick_h_> practice a movement/two a week after that
<brousch> i think i was crying after #2
<rick_h_> lol
<brousch> well if i tape these movements to my monitor it will be faster to look at them than to arrow where i want to go
<brousch> i have gg, G, :#, w, b, {, }, #|, 0, v
<rick_h_> ^ is an important one
<brousch> start of line?
<rick_h_> though 0w is a decent alternative
<brousch> isn't that the same as 0?
<rick_h_> first no space char of a line
<brousch> ah
<rick_h_> so if indented 8 spaces it skips the spaces
<brousch> useful for python
<rick_h_> anything that's indented
<brousch> right
<krondor> ridiculous; http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/24/netherlands-judge-rules-that-samsung-galaxy-s-s-ii-violate-appl/
<krondor> "EP 2,058,868 - method of scrolling / browsing gallery;" is the violation ruled on
<snap-l> krondor: This is going to play out differently in every country.
<brousch> insane
<snap-l> Can you imagine if Atari had patented parts of the Atari 2600?
<snap-l> ie: color cycling?
<snap-l> Or blitting on the Atari ST?
<krondor> so that violation is on a stock google app (cooliris wrote the gallery app for google).  Effectively means all android in the netherlands with the stock gallery app are in violation (could be banned).
<krondor> looking at my captivate gallery app with my xoom app side by side.. I'm wondering why the judge said the samsung galaxy tab 10.1 didn't violate.  This all seems so inconsistent to me.
<brousch> insane
<snap-l> http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/why-rakudo-needs-nqp.html <- What I read: Perl 6 sucks up it's own asshole.
<jrwren> yeah, imagine if double buffering was patented!
<snap-l> jrwren: I'm sure at some point it will be.
<snap-l> if it isn't already.
<snap-l> of course, you do NOT want to get graphics developers pissed off at you. :)
<Wolfger> krondor: can we just burn all the software patents now?
<krondor> Wolfger: I wish! It's such a mess.
<Wolfger> "The earthquake triggered an automatic shutdown of a nuclear power plant less than 20 miles from the epicenter after it lost electricity."
<Wolfger> ...
<Wolfger> I thought the purpose of the power plant was to generate electricity
<jrwren> off the grid.
<jrwren> a nuke power plant can't generate E at low enough levels for just itself.
<jrwren> if it comes off grid it needs to shut down
<Wolfger> I guess that makes sense. It just feels wrong.
<Wolfger> "The device that produces our electricity shut down when it lost electricity"
<snap-l> Have I mentioned lately that MySQL is crap?
<jrwren> most large generators are like that.
<snap-l> manually changing columns from latin1 to utf8
<jrwren> many can't start without electricity.
<snap-l> This is why we can't have perpetual motion machines. ;)
<jrwren> your car is like that. it generates electricity, but it cannot run or start without electricity
<Wolfger> it needs electricity to start, and that makes sense
<Wolfger> but once a car starts, it is self sustaining
<Wolfger> you can yank the battery out (I don't recommend it) while it's running, and it will keep running
<jrwren> yup.
<Wolfger> similarly I can understand that a nuclear reactor needs outside energy to start, but I kinda expect it to self-sustain once started
<Wolfger> all the same, I'm glad that it fails safely in an earthquake :-)
<snap-l> Have I mentioned lately how much I fucking hate MySQL and unicode?
<rick_h_> hah, it's a good life
<snap-l> Well, I managed to obliterate my entire OMC database with a UTF8 change.
<snap-l> Thank God for backups
<rick_h_> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/sarah_milstein/6075362898/in/set-72157627416327276
<rick_h_> there you go, you must get some miles in while working today or you don't get your bonus
<snap-l> I've thought about putting one of those in
<snap-l> at least the standing desk partl
<brousch> our accountant has a standing desk at his office
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/08/24/unicode-the-hard-way/
<rick_h_> awesome
<brousch> "In all seriousness, I want Cyberkiller for the gentle prodding."
<brousch> O:-)
<snap-l> brousch: Thanks. :)
<snap-l> Hah, he noticed it as well. :)
<brousch> even if you did swing that way, i'm not sure someone with the name of cyberkiller is your type
<nixternal> how goes michigan these days?
<snap-l> nixternal: Missing nixternal. How are you?
<brousch> ut, who woke nixternal?
<nixternal> ok i guess. how are you?
<snap-l> nixternal: Doing OK
<snap-l> Managed to lose our rockstars to Florida and California
<nixternal> i needed and still do need an irc break. this shit will kill productivity
<nixternal> who were your rockstars?
<snap-l> jcastro and greg-g
<nixternal> greg went to cali (san fran area i bet, stupid hipster) and jcastro to florida (because it is closer to his uncle fidel)
<nixternal> just a guess that is ^^ :)
<snap-l> nixternal: greg for Creative Commons, and jcastro because Jill is doing her residency there
<nixternal> where at in florida did jcastro go?
<brousch> greg-g is a hippie, not a hipster
<nixternal> my cousin just moved down to the st. petes area and i will be heading down there quite a few times this winter to do some bike riding
<snap-l> nixternal: Boca raton (sp)
<nixternal> does jill work with old people or something? that is all there is in boca. that is where our condo is
<snap-l> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110822/11242915616/side-show-oracle-google-patent-fight-are-apis-covered-copyright.shtml
<snap-l> nixternal: Not sure offhand.
<nixternal> cool man, glad to see everyone is doing ok. gotta head out for a bit but will be back on later probably. tell everyone i said hi and i miss then :)
<nixternal> them, not then
<rick_h_> oh crap, work just sent around a "Social Media Policy"
<brousch> you angered them with your tweets
<brousch> now you will need a pseudonym to rip on people
<rick_h_> off the hook! any computer, laptop, telephone, cell phone, and the like provided by Morpace.
<rick_h_> I don't use any gear provided by then
<rick_h_> and they don't claim the right to intercept the network itself
<rick_h_> so I think I'm ok
<rick_h_> I can sign this in good faith
<snap-l> Heh, we got one about the internal Engage site telling us not to post sensitive stuff in unprotected areas.
<snap-l> rick_h_: What are they cracking down on?
<rick_h_> work is going nuts trying to get a facebook page and such going
<rick_h_> I imagine it's something that they've run into perhaps? No idea actually
<rick_h_> maybe HR just went to a seminar and went to a talk on this
<rick_h_> who knows
<snap-l> So they expect you not to use social media stuff while at work?
<rick_h_> "Surprisingly, anything posted on line is public and therefore privacy rights do not apply even if your page is
<rick_h_> +set to a private status. "
<snap-l> Oh, so essentially "don't post shit unless you expect it to become public"
<rick_h_> there's some of that in there
<rick_h_> "acceptable" and "unacceptable" use listed out
<snap-l> "acceptable": Making money for the company while maintaining a sense of decorum
<rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/KTNXGdvJqJPh7AMAePs8/ could get me in trouble i suppose
<snap-l> "unacceptable": taking photos of your junk and posting them online with the morpace logo reflecting off of your junk
<snap-l> rick_h_: Wow, that's overbroad.
<rick_h_> yea, that's lawyer CYA there
<snap-l> I guess this is the last we hear about NC dude. :)
<rick_h_> "say anything online we can take as 'bad' and you're against the policy and we can fire you"
<rick_h_> not likely...didn't you hear? I have a cousin that lives in NC :P
<rick_h_> always IM'ing me stupid crap
<snap-l> rick_h_: cousin badprogrammer
<rick_h_> yep
<rick_h_> wrong side of the gene pool, you understand
<snap-l> My favorite was the Engage site asked us for our Twitter and homepages
<brousch> rick_h_: Yeah, you're in trouble http://paste.mitechie.com/show/JaqfPcoSLSt3Yb7CQXO6/
<Blazeix> ooh, scary. For CHC, if you just type "31901 Woodward Avenue" into google maps it sends to a location that isn't CHC.
<brousch> rick_h_: just watched the visual mode vimcast. visual block mode will save me so much time
<rick_h_> that sucks Blazeix
<rick_h_> awesome brousch
<jrwren> what is that online shared text editor?
<jrwren> etherpad.
<jrwren> *sigH*
<jrwren> brain is SLOW
<rick_h_> check out etherpadlite
<rick_h_> they just had a release this week
<rick_h_> https://github.com/Pita/etherpad-lite
<rick_h_> works on windows as well
 * greg-g waves from Jackson, Wyoming
<jrwren> hi greg1!
<snap-l> Hey greg-g !
<greg-g> hiya snap-l / jrwren ! :)
<brousch> greg-g: geez, taking your sweet time getting to cali
<snap-l> Hey, look at me, I'm filling out a survey for Staples. ;)
<greg-g> brousch: :P
<rick_h_> snap-l: uh oh
<rick_h_> greg-g: howdy, travel going well?
<snap-l> rick_h_: And it was a pleasent experience.
<snap-l> Man, my machine just decided to put on the Twin Peaks soundtrack disc
<snap-l> Haven't heard this in a loooooong time
<greg-g> rick_h_: yeah, it is beautiful out here.
<greg-g> of note: Jackson, WY is a very spendy town. Full of Mercedes and specialty jewelry shops.
<snap-l> SOunds like Macomb. ;)
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Although you can replace the specialty jewelry scores with the "we buy gold" stores.
<snap-l> Heh, Boxee just sent out an offer for the Boxee Box for $169
<greg-g> alright, after doing CC work for the last bit in Jackson, time to head back into the mountians :)
<snap-l> Woo woo!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-25
<snap-l> JoDee's not home yet, so it's pretty doubtful I'll be able to make it to CHC tonight
<rick_h_> snap-l: booo
<rick_h_> ok, thanks for the heads up
<snap-l> Can't be helped.
<rick_h_> we've got a good 7 here
<snap-l> Awesome!
<snap-l> Anyone new?
<rick_h_> oops, make that 8
<rick_h_> my boss is here, duane
<rick_h_> thul is here as well
<snap-l> Awesome!
<snap-l> Damn, I missed a rare Thul sighting
<rick_h_> devin says he'll pick you up next week
<rick_h_> get with him on that
<snap-l> OK. :)
<snap-l> Was going to ask you otherwise. ;)
<rick_h_> he says he goes right by your place, but yea I'd do it as well
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
 * slashies violently headbutts nullspace, "HA! First guess. Knew it had to be you"
<slashies> now, of course there will be an intervenening 3 hours before he reads that and but then I'll be AFK
<snap-l> rick_h_: It appears that the OLF folks want the Ubuntu MI group to share a table with Lococast.
<snap-l> which I agreed to, since it'll be easier to manage.
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, said the same thing when I got the email
<Wolfger> morning
<jjesse> hello
<rick_h_> ugh, morning
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAgwQQ30Qus
<Wolfger> le sigh
<Wolfger> I remember when I could watch youtube vids at work...
<brousch> snap-l: i woke up this morning with Rush "Tom Sawyer" playing in my head. wtf, i don't even listen to Rush
<brousch> i know you're behind this somehow
<snap-l> brousch: you're welcome
<brousch> :P
<snap-l> Yay, I'm installing Windows XP updates
<snap-l> today should be fun.
<rick_h_> good luck
<brousch> cmdr taco resigned
<brousch> i might cry
<jjesse> yeah i saw that
<jjesse> haven't read the article
<Wolfger> that's worse than Jobs stepping down
<jjesse> way worse
<snap-l> It was a long time coming.
<nullspace> snap-l: oh yeah, it's patch thursday!!!
<snap-l> Man, 2000+ is really ripping up the industry as we once knew it
<snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/08/rim-on-the-outs-who-wants-a-slice-of-blackberry-pie.ars
<jrwren> 9 days until Ubuntu global bug jam!!!
<jrwren> question: does anyone who will be attended the bug jam have a working TV Tuner so that we could watch the football game?
<_stink_> jrwren: looks like the game is being carried by ESPN, so it *might* be shown on espn3.com
<_stink_> but they don't give listings that far in advance
<rick_h_> I've got a usb one I could loan out at the next CHC to snap-l to bring
<rick_h_> I got one to test the HD antenna that's usb
<snap-l> rick_h_: You aren't coming to the global jam?
<snap-l> pshaw
<rick_h_> snap-l: can't wife is working
<rick_h_> I'm on dad duty, said that the day we planned it :P
<snap-l> Bah
<rick_h_> it's ok, I don't know much about ubuntu bugs :P
<snap-l> Bring Michael to the jam
<snap-l> we can have the youngest triager. :)
<rick_h_> heh, he does love to "type"
<snap-l> Couldn't do much worse than some of the triagers. ;)
<rick_h_> his new thing is to ask to go downstair to "type" and beat on my keyboard
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> awesome
<brousch> does he have his own?
<rick_h_> http://twitter.com/#!/mitechie/status/106728842315575296 please if anyone has any idea, I really don't want to write this
<snap-l> I'll load up the Eee for him
<brousch> george uses my old eeepc 901
<rick_h_> brousch: he has one, but it's not a full clicky keyboard, I gave him my old server usb mini keyboard
<brousch> it is his
<rick_h_> no, I don't have anything to give him that's working
<rick_h_> he's only 19mo as well
<rick_h_> and doesn't get tv/etc
<brousch> inline images?
<rick_h_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_URI_scheme
<brousch> so the image is embedded right in the html?
<rick_h_> right
<brousch> whoa, cool
<rick_h_> yea, I've got a tool that can generate a pdf using webkit offline
<rick_h_> but I need to embed all the external links, css, js, images, etc
<rick_h_> and not finding anything to do that for me :(
<brousch> but why?
<rick_h_> I really don't want to write some html parsing thing to go through it all
<rick_h_> then given any html page (say a page my application is serving) I can do ?topdf=true and it will generate a full pdf of the html for me
<rick_h_> basically automatic html report->pdf with JS/css/images included
<brousch> hm, small starting point http://www.dopiaza.org/tools/datauri/
<brousch> ah, i see
<snap-l> rick_h_: God, it's 1995 all over again. ;)
<rick_h_> it's staples
<rick_h_> oh crap, did I just break my social medial policy?
<snap-l> It's like someone saw a C header file with XPM embedded and figured "why not?"
<rick_h_> basically every web page must be printable as it appears on the page without any checkboxes/controls in the browser print ui
<brousch> print to pdf isn't good enough?
<rick_h_> no
<brousch> send to silenium and scrape a png?
<snap-l> Dear God, this is insane
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, I can send it a full url now
<rick_h_> but the url has to be available by this server
<rick_h_> which means the page can't require login/cookies/etc
<rick_h_> what I want to do is send it from the web server itself, so that I've got a single blob of html that has all that built in, and then have this tool render the whole page with css/js
<brousch> i see a few people that do a little bit and then mention that it would be interesting to do do whole pages, but no one seems to have done it
<jrwren> rick_h_: you aren't coming to the global bug jam?
<jrwren> rick_h_: damn, i was hoping to give you a think pad power adapter from greg-g
<snap-l> jrwren: I'll grab it
 * snap-l is the mule
<jrwren> rick_h_: how old is the boy? totally bring him to the bug jam!
<jrwren> rick_h_: if you have any inclination to bring the boy to the jam, I'll bring my girl and she can keep him entertained.
<brousch> rick_h_: it looks like ie6 doesn't do data uri
<brousch> isn't staples the one still running ie6?
<rick_h_> brousch: I could care less :P
<rick_h_> nothing but the pdf generation tool has to understand data-uri
<brousch> ok
<rick_h_> brousch: they've all finally migrated to ie8
<rick_h_> still 800x600, but on ie8 now
<snap-l> God
<snap-l> 800x600. At least it'll look good on the iPhone. ;)
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> 800x600?  wtf?
<jrwren> is this POS machines?
<jrwren> point of sale. the piece of shit is given.
<rick_h_> no, this is back in the office area of the stores
<rick_h_> on locked to the 9's windows machines now finally (in 2011) on ie8
<rick_h_> just completed the rollout back in june
<snap-l> jrwren: I've seen this first-hand at Chrysler
<snap-l> some folks can't see very well, so they use 800x600 to get big fonts
<snap-l> Rather than settingtheir machine to a reasonable resolution and jacking up the fonts, they associate 800x600 as some kind of accessibility compromise.
<snap-l> It's goofy, but it makes sense on some levels.
<snap-l> Also, JoDee's mouse that she broke? I'm using it right now
<snap-l> basically, she lost the back cover on the mouse
<snap-l> still works. Thinking about what to do with it when she fully surrenders it. ;)
<Wolfger> snap-l: worse is when an in-house app requires some high resolution because it works on the dev's monitor, then you go to the plant floor on 800x600 and it's unuasable
<Wolfger> or nearly so
<snap-l> Wolfger: You forget I worked on FieldConnect. :)
<snap-l> 1024x768, bay-bee.
<snap-l> except for the nearsighted customers.
<snap-l> which comprised of one of the customers who still was talking to us. ;)
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/python-webpage-inliner brousch
<brousch> it works already?
<rick_h_> well, it needs some work
<rick_h_> it's not a valid package, args is all sys.argv[1], and the path building isn't very forgiving
<rick_h_> leave off the / of the url and it fails/etc
<rick_h_> but sure seems close enough for me to start here vs my own
<brousch> this could be really useful for offline viewing of stuff
<rick_h_> exactly
<brousch> ah, you didn't just write this, you forked it
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> sorry, meant to link his repo not mine
<brousch> i see it now
<brousch> awesome
<brousch> i'm going to follow your repo. if nothing else it will be an interesting project to discuss at grpug/grwebdev
<snap-l> _stink_: https://github.com/craigmaloney/Projectile-Motion-Demo---Game
<snap-l> That's the projectile motion game I made for JoDee a while back
<brousch> what's the brown line? a wall?
<snap-l> Yes
<brousch> i blew myself up
<snap-l> That's impossible.
<snap-l> You won't die. ;)
<snap-l> http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/08/ouija_board_movie_dead.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+nymag/vulture+(Vulture+-+nymag.com's+Entertainment+and+Culture+Blog)
<brousch> i don't see any enemies
<snap-l> brousch: It's supposed to be like battleship
<snap-l> it's a projectile motion demo
<snap-l> the students were supposed to compute the projectile motion and then JoDee would put their numbers into the game to see if they hit
<snap-l> they needed to get it over the "Wall"
<brousch> i landed on the wall
<snap-l> then you likely need more velocity or a different angle
<snap-l> also a secret of the game: you can have more than one projectile at a time.
<brousch> yeah, i just made a swath of red death on the wall
<brousch> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/projectile-demo-diewalldie.png
<Wolfger> lol
<snap-l> hehehehehe. :)
<snap-l> I'm glad you're entertained. :)
<krondor> man Steve Jobs and CmdrTaco in 24 hour period
<snap-l> Yeah, the tech world is definitely in turmoil
<jrwren> malda left geek.net?
<snap-l> He left Slashdot, so I'm thinking that means geek.net as well
<krondor> yeah it read that way to me
<jrwren> about damn time.
<snap-l> Yeah, this has been a while in coming
<snap-l> I think when they had the big layoff (of which I was a part) that's really when the fun got sucked out
<snap-l> lots of good people were either fired or left.
<snap-l> Once hemos left, I figured it was only a matter of time.
<jrwren> that was a few years ago right?
<jrwren> then about a year ago they started hiring again like crazy.
<snap-l> Well, yeah, because they cut way too far, imho
<snap-l> http://ebm.e.staples.com/c/tag/hBOVmp6B7SHGCB8c96-CYMmGnS7/doc.html?t_params=I_CITYNEW1%3D2%26I_DELIVERY45%3D2%26I_DELIVERYLINK%3D2%26I_STATENEW1%3D1%26I_STORELINK2%3D1%26CITY_CASING%3DMacomb%26EMAIL%3Dcraig%2540decafbad.net%26PASSWORD%3DB7SHGCCYMmGnBOVmp6Fs7VwlMncCyL%26STATE_PROVINCE_CD%3DMI%26ZIP%3D48044&cm_lm=craig@decafbad.net&cid=EM:CM:_BOVmp6B8c96-84&om_rid=craig@decafbad.net
<snap-l> I should totally take my machine in for a checkup
<snap-l> "Yeah, can you speed up my start and shutdown time?"
<snap-l> brousch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W35wtfcByIY
<snap-l> Also, this is fucking awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMwn_hnoS5Y
<brousch> blah
<brousch> damn hippie music
<snap-l> Dude, we shall get you into early Genesis. :)
<snap-l> Seriously, though, the second link is awesome
<snap-l> If for no other reason than the stage play.
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP1_pZkJTvk
<brousch> could you instead ship me a pair of icepicks so i can pop my eardrums?
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha, I love getting paid to push to github
<brousch> hehe
<snap-l> brousch: in lieu of icepicks, may I offer the following: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jhbQX_HSLs
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYgHNw-8ESk
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8_Z0OEkgSo
<snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0 <- Will Calhoun is one of my inspirations.
<snap-l> OK, enough dicking around on youtube. :)
<rick_h_> never!
<brousch> ut oh, another python podcast http://www.radiofreepython.com/
<rick_h_> yep
<rick_h_> listened to that yesterday
<rick_h_> got some heavy hitters on there
<brousch> rick_h_: Just saw this blog post on intents and intent filters in appcelerator titanium. http://developer.appcelerator.com/blog/2011/08/android-intent-filters.html
<brousch> i think titanium can do what you want for the bookie app
<rick_h_> ty, bookmarked. Will check that out
<rick_h_> I keep going back/forth on what I want to do for mobile bookie.
<rick_h_> for now, first priority is bookmarklet
<jrwren> bookmarklet is all i want for my FF browser :)
<rick_h_> yea, started on it last night jrwren
<rick_h_> hopefully in the next week/two I'll have one put together
<snap-l> Steve Jobs Announces Retirement, All My Friends Pre-Order Retirement
<snap-l> Man, this Kobo is a crashy POS now
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<snap-l> anyone want a free copy of Delerium - Karma?
<snap-l> Apparently the copy I have is copy protected, so I'm getting rid of it
<snap-l> that's bullshit, IMHO
<jrwren> i'll take it.
<jrwren> always nice to have a spare.
<brousch> fear me. i created a webapp using Python3, CherryPy, Mako, and SQLAlchemy
<jrwren> PHEAR
<brousch> took about an hour
<brousch> 45 minutes of looking up cherrypy and sqlalchemy crap
<gamerchick02> nice, brousch.
<snap-l> http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Selection_008.jpeg <- WHAT THE FUCK?
<gamerchick02> i really didn't look closely at that but it kind of looks... uhm... i dunno.
<gamerchick02> not sure if i like it or not
<jrwren> hahaha.
<jrwren> canonical marketing FTW
<brousch> wow, kids designing ubuntu now?
<brousch> rick_h_: using sqlalchemy in my little python3 webapp. should each request get its own session?
<rick_h_> brousch: yes, there are threadlocal stragies all web frameworks use to implement that
<rick_h_> http://awsmedia.s3.amazonaws.com/jobs/all_aws_jobs_list.html
<rick_h_> man I wish I could move to seattle
<rick_h_> brousch: http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/orm/session.html#creating-a-thread-local-context
<rick_h_> though I did finally have some real fun at work today
<brousch> i have nfc if my stuff is threadsafe
<rick_h_> got that inliner code working and packaged, got a wrapper that would do html -> pdf generation. Now to get it all wrapped up as an easy to use service to render any html page as a pdf document with a couple of lines of python
<rick_h_> brousch: if you're not doing it, it's not
<brousch> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/393/
<rick_h_> I think you're ok since you redo the session for each request
<rick_h_> but make sure you try/catch around the add/commit
<rick_h_> if something were to go wrong it'd blow up badly
<rick_h_> you want to make sure to try:catch:finally
<rick_h_> and session.remove
<brousch> what's session.remove?
<brousch> destroys the session or anything lingering in it?
<rick_h_> helps clean up a session and return the pool'd connection and such
<rick_h_> it's in that link I sent
<brousch> ok, just started it
<brousch> looks easy enough to do
<rick_h_> http://www.sqlalchemy.org/docs/orm/session.html#sqlalchemy.orm.scoping.ScopedSession
<brousch> just wrap the session in the threadsafe session thing
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> just a slight alteration to the normal flow to make sure each request is isolated from each other
<rick_h_> since you get connection pooling ootb, it's not a perf hit
<rick_h_> and keeps people from trouncing on each other a bit
<rick_h_> but just remember, you can still have two users to go add something and one wins and the other conflicts a unique key or something
<rick_h_> so you always need to try/except and make sure you watch for that
<brousch>  ah
<rick_h_> if we're both behind the same NAT firewall for instance and add the same IP split seconds apart, boom!
<rick_h_> (at least from a general idea of the code here)
<brousch> each row has a unique id
<brousch> ip was just something convenient to throw in there
<rick_h_> ok, but the ip address column doesn't have a unique constraint?
<rick_h_> ah, ok
<rick_h_> well, you get the idea
<brousch> i think so
<brousch> how would you test that? hammer a server with instances likely to clobber each other?
<rick_h_> one way, other is to intensionally setup back to back calls that should conflict
<rick_h_> create the same User withthe same username back to back and make sure hte second gets a failed commit and you catch it/error properly
<rick_h_> that kind of idea
<brousch> thanks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-26
<snap-l> Good evening
<snap-l> had a lovely evening with my wife over at PF CHangs.
<snap-l> and then a lovely time going to target to get her a new mouse
<snap-l> It was, dare I say it, lovely.
<rick_h_> ll
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I've installed java, added it to my path, and copied/pasted code and compiled it
<snap-l> rick_h_: Congratulations, you got Java code to compile
<snap-l> feels like you ran a marathon to the fridge, doesn't it?
<rick_h_> I'm confused, I just declared a class, but call the file and it executes
<rick_h_> it seems a bit wrong that there's no "create instance/call method" there
<rick_h_> I suppose it's "main" magic
<snap-l> I didn't think it did that, but it's been a while since I've done anything with Java.
<snap-l> ie: creat code, not wrestle with dev environments
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/08/25/open-metalcast-special-episode-club-metal-5/
<brousch> crud morning
<Wolfger> crud morning!
<brousch> one of our dogs goes nuts when a smoke alarm has a low battery which makes it beep every minute
<brousch> of course this always happens at 3AM
<brousch> it took me half an hour to find the offending alarm because it was on the floor under a pile of stuff in the basement. i have no idea how it got there
<brousch> so, crud morning
<DeaCon> http://www.crud.org/pages/ourdeal.html  heh funny
 * Wolfger wonders if greg-g is going to be a member of CRUD
<rick_h_> http://mhall119.com/2011/08/just-f-ing-do-it/
<rick_h_> so I'm not sure if that means my coworkers should stop listening to me or what?
<rick_h_> and morning
<rick_h_> with a little crud
<brousch> "But hereâs the thing, if you already haveÂ something, and the people telling you to change it arenât willing toÂ helpÂ you change it, thenÂ just fucking do it, do it your way, even if itâs the wrong way.Â "
<brousch> you are telling them to change and you are helping them
<rick_h_> ah, ok I feel better then lol
<rick_h_> I didn't like being the second line on that graph "is this much improvement really worth the time"
<brousch> hm, the picture doesn't load for me
<rick_h_> oh
<brousch> looks like maybe he moved it to AWS and got the link wrong
<rick_h_> http://blog_uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/solutions.png
<rick_h_> is loading for me
<brousch> doesn't load for me
<rick_h_> hmm, is there a pypi or rubygems for java?
<brousch> and does that really look like a valid url? doesn't seem unique enough to me
<rick_h_> why not?
<rick_h_> looks valid here
<brousch> i changed it to http://mhall119.com//wp-content/uploads/2011/08/solutions.png
<brousch> that works
<brousch> wouldn't it require some kind of username or unique id in the url?
<rick_h_> I figured the blog_uploads was it.
<rick_h_> no idea why it works for me and not you
<brousch> weird
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> this caffeinated coffee is really hitting the spot today
<jjesse> brousch bummer on the morning
<snap-l> reminds me of the time when our brilliant maintenance man threw out our smoke detector in the dumpster
<snap-l> (back at the apartments)
<snap-l> and forgot to take out the battery that was in there
<snap-l> I actually dove into the dumpster at 3AM to find it and remove the battery.
<brousch> after about 20 minutes i was considering whther it was easier to find the hidden alarm or snap my dog's neck
<Wolfger> :-(
<Wolfger> --
<snap-l> after 20 minutes at 3am, that would be a valid option
<snap-l> explaining it to the rest of the family might not be the best
<brousch> there would be little love lost
<jjesse> it seems half of my co-workers won't be getting out of the site they are working at due to all the cancelations of flights/etc for irene
<jjesse> seems crazy
<snap-l> jjesse: Ugh, so they're going to have to weather it out?
<jjesse> or drive
<snap-l> Ugh
<jjesse> totally
<jjesse> most of them are in multi-week engagements they plan on coming home each weekend for family
<jjesse> boston has cancled most of flights already
<jjesse> so they either drive home or weather it out
<snap-l> or get a cab and try to find another airport, but that could get expensive quick
<jjesse> yeah really expensive
<jjesse> cab + flight change + hotel?
<snap-l> Yeah, although you could do it without the hotel
<snap-l> I mean, with enough cash anything is possible
<Wolfger> spoken like a true American
<snap-l> Everyone and everything has a price
<snap-l> I buy you for $3.50. :)
<Wolfger> I'd like a rickshaw ride from Boston to Detroit. Here's my titanium Visa.
<Wolfger> $3.50 will get you a few minutes of my time
<jjesse> nice titanium visa ;:)
<Wolfger> ok, maybe 10 minutes
<jjesse> is that like the black american express
<snap-l> Wolfger: I want quality time, or the deal is off
<Wolfger> jjesse: I'm guessing. It just sounded impressive. :-)
<snap-l> Also note: you need to have a willing buyer and a willing seller.
<snap-l> If eBay and Craigslist have taught us anything, it's the nature of value
<snap-l> also, people will list some strange shit.
<Wolfger> or take photos of reflective surfaces while not wearing any clothes...
<jjesse> i wonder how heavy the titanium visa would be
<jjesse> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_Card
<jjesse> an american express created out of titanium
<Wolfger> wow
<Wolfger> $5,000 to get it, $2,500/year to keep it.
<Wolfger> Most of my cards have had < $5,000 limit. :-p
<jjesse> yeah apparently its invite only or something
<Wolfger> It's the "I'm ridiculously wealthy and I want you to know it" card.
<rick_h_> dammit, people stop posting blog posts that "speak to me" today...gah! http://frazzleddad.blogspot.com/2011/08/maybe-youre-not-right-and-theyre-not.html
<Wolfger> rick_h_: all progress depends upon the unreasonable man...
<Wolfger> That blog post does nothing but insert the voice of doubt. I don't see one constructive thing in there.
<rick_h_> hah, well maybe just a sanity check...if you're the one against the grain, maybe it's time to find another place where you're not alone and let them live their way
<Wolfger> well, if you're unhappy there, that may be true.
<Wolfger> if they're unhappy with you, it soon will be true :-)
<Wolfger> but in my experience most people do things a certain way just because "that's how it's done", without any thought about whether or not it's the best (or even right) way.
<Wolfger> guilty of that myself on occasion
<Wolfger> thinking is hard; established procedure is easy.
<rick_h_> heh, other way around. It's easy to think of what should be done, hard to get it implemented
<Wolfger> "Nobody ever got fired for X" (where X is some industry standard way of doing things)... That may be true, but it's also been years if not decades since anybody got catapulted to success for doing X, too.
<Wolfger> and the first person to do
<Wolfger> X was sure risking getting fired for it
<Wolfger> :-)
<rick_h_> lol, https://github.com/qoda/python-wkhtmltopdf/issues/1
<_stink_> "no, there is no way, plz write it."
<rick_h_> ah, that's clearer :)
<_stink_> :P
<rick_h_> Blazeix: what's the final verdict on your DX?
<rick_h_> I'm |  | close to trying to get one
<rick_h_> size is the main concern, do you use it for normal book/bed reading kind of stuff?
<Blazeix> rick_h_: I don't read in bed, but for lounging on the couch it works well.
<Blazeix> I can bring it to CHC if you want to get another read on the size.
<Blazeix> I'd by the DX again, given the choice.
<rick_h_> yea, I'm really wanting one for my technical reading, for pdfs, books I buy outside of the amazon store
<Blazeix> s/by/buy/
<rick_h_> but worried about the casual reading I also do on it with it being larger/heavier
<rick_h_> I honestly don't want to keep both kindles
<rick_h_> cool, that's good to know
<rick_h_> I hadn't heard if you were happy/not with the final choice. So that's cool
<Blazeix> yeah, I have an android dev book on it, so the big screen is nice when dealing with java code :)
<Blazeix> though in general i try to get hard copy of tech books, since i jump around a lot.
<Blazeix> I imagine they're due for a product refresh, soon.
<Wolfger> Impressive: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/08/stealing_atm_pi.html
<Wolfger> They should file a patent on that process ;-)
<brousch> geez
<rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, this fall
<rick_h_> so will wait a little bit
<rick_h_> but if the change isn't much, I'm also tempted to try to get a cheaper DX
<rick_h_> the tablets are all the rage for this fall release, and they say new kindle
<brousch> isn't new kindle an android tablet?
<jrwren> Anybody know a web designer with decent WP skills in the Birmingham
<jrwren> area? A friend of a friend needs some short-term help. Likely a $1-2K
<jrwren> project.
<rick_h_> brousch: no, tablets are separate from kindle
<rick_h_> the sales tell you that
<rick_h_> jrwren: Mat might know, he's more hooked into local PHP in that area
<rick_h_> shoot me an email and I'll send it along
<jrwren> rick_h_: i forwarded the original
<rick_h_> ty
<_stink_> snap-l: just grabbed that projectile motion demo
<_stink_> pretty neat
<_stink_> the most fun part was firing a huge volley of like 20
<rick_h_> yea, that seemed to be brousch's favorite part as well
<brousch> _stink_: you have to completely obliterate the wall
<brousch> land the shells on top of the wall
<snap-l> _stink_: Yeah, I had a lot of fun debugging it that way. ;)
<snap-l> http://identi.ca/notice/81715406
<_stink_> hah, those books were all over the Borders in Birmingham
<_stink_> even at 40% off
<brousch> rick_h_: i was moving around vim using vim movement commands and deleting things in chunks instead of 1 letter at a time today
<rick_h_> brousch: awesome!
<rick_h_> you're well on your way
<snap-l> http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596007195
<snap-l> DDREV gets you 50% off.
<brousch> wow, rick_h_'s messing around helped me today. got sent an email with an embedded data uri
<brousch> i would have nfc what that was
<rick_h_> yea, lot of email does that since most web clients won't load external images by default for security
<rick_h_> I'll have to show you my stuff, it's starting to come together
<rick_h_> going to be pretty badass to add pdf export to any web app
<rick_h_> woot, new super antenna is in
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_: any real difference in tuning quality?
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: will let you know, going through assembly
<devinheitmueller> Just FYI:  you can actually see the signal quality if you run asap.  Just look at the SNR field.  It's in hex, but if you convert it to decimal and multiply by 10, you will get the SNR in dB.  The maximum SNR possible is 30.0 dB.
<devinheitmueller> E.g.  SNR=0x12c = 300 decimal = 30.0 dB.
<rick_h_> asap?
<devinheitmueller> Doh.  The IRC client changed "azap" to "asap".  Sorry.
<rick_h_> ah ok
<rick_h_> devinheitmueller: I'm only getting in dmesg "firmware was not loaded previously"
<rick_h_> didn't we get a "successfully loaded firmware" or something before?
<rick_h_> there we go, finding a lot more channels now
<snap-l> rick_h_: Awesomesauce.
<rick_h_> think I got 7 (some sd/hd dupes) now vs 3 or 4 before
<rick_h_> 3 more
<rick_h_> have to see how they look
<rick_h_> and then try from the attic sometime
<rick_h_> don't know the wife wants this zip tied to the deck lol
<snap-l> Just say it's the new Dish network. ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> man, even more
<rick_h_> awesome!
 * rick_h_ hopes this works
<jrwren> new antenae or just moved it?
<rick_h_> new
<jrwren> cool!
<rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/112719704219936118281/posts/5UPpHDadcNV
<jrwren> i want to do the same thing, and my distance is further AFAIK
<rick_h_> yea, this thing is picking up everything
<rick_h_> 7 channels with HD
<rick_h_> two I odn't know, there're listed multiple times, but don't say hd/sd
<rick_h_> damn, kaffiene crashing on me
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_:  after you do the scan, exit out of Kaffeine and re-enter it.  Then see if it still crashes.
<devinheitmueller> Glad to hear the new antenna is working well for you though.
<rick_h_> yea, as soon as I hit the dtv, it loads and then crashes
<devinheitmueller> Ugh.
<rick_h_> what else would take that azap format channel list?
<rick_h_> I created that channel list before remember kaffeine would scan itself
<devinheitmueller> No easy answer there; you would probably have to compile kaffeine from source and get a gdb backtrace.
<devinheitmueller> mplayer will take the azap format.
<devinheitmueller> You have to copy the channels.conf into ~/.mplayer, then you can do "mplayer dvb://WABC-DT"
<rick_h_> ugh, per channel eh?
<devinheitmueller> Sorry, if I wasn't clear, "~/.mplayer" needs to be a directory, not a file.
<rick_h_> yea, figured that part
<devinheitmueller> I think you can do channel up/down once inside mplayer.
<devinheitmueller> I forget the syntax though.
<rick_h_> just mean that you have to launch mplayer to the channel you want vs change channel
<rick_h_> ah, ok
<devinheitmueller> rick_h_: see here:  http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/HTML/en/mpeg_decoders.html
<devinheitmueller> You can use "h" and "k" to do next and previous.
<devinheitmueller> â¦. and you can just do "dvb://" instead of specifying an initial channel name to get the first channel in your channels.conf.
<rick_h_> yea, I started it with that and got a first working channel
<rick_h_> woot! working
<devinheitmueller> Sorry, I don't do this particular use case every day, so I'm a little slow in telling you what the commands/keys are etc.
<rick_h_> thanks, that helped me sanity check
<rick_h_> the big job now is ot test it from the attic, and see if it still picks up
<rick_h_> and if so, running cable from there down into the basement *ugh*
<rick_h_> jrwren: this model says 65mi vs the older one said 30mi
<rick_h_> the 30mi didn't pick up anything at my house 18-25mi from the towers
<Dekkard> tinycore rocks
<greg-g> Wolfger: I'm going to say no, I'm not going to join CRUD
<brousch> lame
<greg-g> still in Winnemucca, NV
<brousch> is that a casino town?
<brousch> winyemucha
<greg-g> and seriously, when driving out west from utah to california, check the map twice before going and taking the short cut through the desert, we almost ran out of gas yesterday
<greg-g> brousch: everything out here is :)
<greg-g> the effing gas stations have slot machines
<snap-l> The airport has slot machines
<snap-l> You can't get rid of that stupid slot machine sound
<brousch> so how much have you played?
<greg-g> Zero.
<brousch> YOU CAN'T WIN IF YOU DON'T PLAY!
<greg-g> snap-l: yeah, I used to work at a fun park in Hannibal, MO in High School that had an arcade. I can still hear the machines doing their thing in my sleep.
<rick_h_> phew, attic is HOT
<greg-g> we drove through 105F desert yesterday :)
<snap-l> greg-g: btw: is there a way to change the team contact on the loco directory page for UbuMI?
<greg-g> hmmm, it should be a function of what the LP team is
<greg-g> brb call
<devinheitmueller> https://plus.google.com/u/0/117949622109501454770/posts/QxmUEcopQ44
<snap-l> devinheitmueller: I might be interested in those.
<devinheitmueller> the shelf, or the tables?
<snap-l> The shelf and possibly the tables.
<snap-l> If someone else really wants them, though, by all means let them have them. :)
<Wolfger> I despise non-technical people writing about technical things.
<snap-l> Wolfger: What happened now?
<Wolfger> "DTE is planning to have these three wind farms operational by December 2012, which together will generate approximately 110 megawatts."
<snap-l> Pffft
<Wolfger> 110 MW? In their entire lifespan?
<Wolfger> Per year?
<Wolfger> Hour?
<Wolfger> Minute?
<Wolfger> Second?
<snap-l> millisecond?
<jrwren> power is not a measurement in time.
<Wolfger> They couldn't even be bothered to make some vague claim as to how many cities it would power.
<jrwren> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Power_%28physics%29
<jrwren> or rather, that is the instantaneous power.
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> and I was a physics minor.
<jrwren> i fucking suck.
<jrwren> power is a measurement in time.
<jrwren> W = j/s
<snap-l> jrwren: Thank you. :)
<jrwren> ya'll can belittle me now.
<snap-l> For a minute I was thinking up was down, left was right...
<Wolfger> meh
<jrwren> the derivation of instantaneous power always threw me.
<Wolfger> it's Friday afternoon, I'm half asleep at my deak
<Wolfger> desk
<jrwren> is _stink_ here... shit.
<jrwren> _stink_: don't read up.
<jrwren> :p
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> I'm telling JoDee. :)
<Wolfger> I just know I get billed per kilowatthour :-p
<snap-l> She'll school you.
<Wolfger> and W = ie not j/s in my world ;-)
<jrwren> in what world do you live?
<Wolfger> err... no... that's P = ie
<Wolfger> But P is measured in W :-p
 * Wolfger goes back to sleep at his desk. Carry on.
<jrwren> so j/s = W = V A ?
<_stink_> jrwren: i have gone through that in my head about 1 billion times.  i understand :)
<jrwren> great. _stink_ understands my stupid.
<Wolfger> jrwren: W in this context is Work not Watts :-p
<jrwren> oh.
<_stink_> physics is good at making one realize one's own stupid.
<rick_h_> woot, works from the attic as well, lost wdiv though :(
<_stink_> like most of my life.
<Wolfger> half asleep + timecard already approved by project manager who left for vacation = why am I still here?
<brousch> Wolfger: because you love working
<Wolfger> if I was working I wouldn't be half asleep. I'm wallowing in a morass of red tape.
<brousch> sounds confortable
<Dekkard> hmm
<Dekkard> no gamerchick
 * Dekkard wonders if she got hired...
<Wolfger> no gamerchick02? Are you sure? I see her, Dekkard
<gamerchick02> yeah, i'm here
<gamerchick02> not hired yet.
<ColonelPanic001> wat
<devinheitmueller> snap-l: you're welcome to whatever subset of the shelf/tables you want.  I definitely cannot take them back to NYC with me (they won't fit in the car), so it's either I give them away or they go in the dumpster.
<Dekkard> damnit
<Dekkard> didja apply to Linamar?
<snap-l> I'm looking to get some pencils to give out as favors for the Ubuntu MI loco.
<snap-l> http://www.orientaltrading.com/mega-personalized-pencil-assortment-a2-47_362-18-0.fltr
<gamerchick02> Dekkard, i think i did. i had an interview wednesday at Piolax and i feel good about it
<gamerchick02> snap-l cool
<gamerchick02> that's actually a really good idea, snap-l. what are you going to put on them?
<snap-l> ubuntu MI loco
<snap-l> I don't think I can fit a URL on there
<gamerchick02> hrm. what about a twitter name or something?
<gamerchick02> @ubuntumi
<gamerchick02> or whatever.
<snap-l> Save for we don't have that twitter name that I'm aware of. ;)
<gamerchick02> ah. well... just a thought.
<ColonelPanic001> shame it's hard to get a twitter account
 * ColonelPanic001 goes to register it and squat
<brousch> rick_h_: have you poked at http://khufuproject.github.com/ yet?
<snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Feel free. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> I'm not enough of a dick
<ColonelPanic001> almost, though
<ColonelPanic001> almost.
<brousch> so you're just a little dick?
<snap-l> I'd rather someone from the loco register it than leave it out there
<ColonelPanic001> brousch: no comment
<ColonelPanic001> snap-l: yeah, guess that's true.
 * brousch registers fakeubuntumi
<gamerchick02> it's hard to get a twitter account?
<brousch> well it's hard if the name is already taken
<gamerchick02> it's already taken
<gamerchick02> ?
<gamerchick02> ubuntumi doesn't exist
<ColonelPanic001> I was just being sarcastic at the time.
<brousch> someone has to care for and feed it
<gamerchick02> ubuntu-us-mi isn't taken
<ColonelPanic001> TAKE THEM ALL
<gamerchick02> that's true, but can't that be done through RSS and stuff?
<brousch> it's a time thing
<gamerchick02> NOMnomNOM *eats twitter accounts*
<gamerchick02> true, it is
<gamerchick02> i manage my own, and our Nile Temple's and my OES chapter's. i'm not up for another one right now.
<snap-l> They're talking about Dethklok on 101.9
<Wolfger> .9?
<snap-l> WDET
<Wolfger> I was going to say... that's not the WRIF...
<snap-l> http://www.wdet.org/
<snap-l> It's about cartoons and music
<snap-l> They had the singer from Jem and the Holograms on there.
<jrwren> O_O
<jrwren> snap-l: they did not!  That is truly outrageous!
<snap-l> Why not?
<snap-l> It's a program called "soundcheck"
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> that is truly truly truly outrageous.
<snap-l> Why is that outrageous?
<jrwren> i'm quoting the Jem theme song.
<jrwren> Jem.
<jrwren>  truly truly truly outrageous
<snap-l> jrwren: Apparently you watched it way more than I did. ;)
<ColonelPanic001> what about the Jem'hadar
<ColonelPanic001> ?
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: LOL!
<jrwren> ColonelPanic001: you made me spit the peach I was eating.
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<jrwren> that was DS9, right?
<ColonelPanic001> yeah
<jrwren> \m/
<Dekkard> mind the gap
<rick_h_> brousch: I've followed it, but personally not a fan of "hey, don't use pyramid, use some extra layer that hides things and will have to keep up with the normal pyramid releases"
<brousch> hm, i thought that was the whole point of this pyramid thing
<brousch> so people can make easy to use subsets
<rick_h_> yea, but so far I've been willing to do without
<rick_h_> the thing is that if you use osmething layered on something else you eventually need to know how to use the lower end tool to fix something
<brousch> so it might be good for someone that knows pyramid and is looking to dev in it a little faster?
<rick_h_> well, it all came about as a helper for people used to pylons that didn't "get" pyramid
<rick_h_> so if you're learning pyramid, I'm not sure what it will do besides bootstrap pylons-isms back into place
<brousch> ah, so it's a pylons-like subset of pyramid
<rick_h_> well, superset
<rick_h_> it adds on
<brousch> I'm going through the Pyramid docs for 1.2. they are much improved over a year ago? when i last read them
<brousch> it also helps that i've made a few webapps and know wtf some of this stuff is for now
<brousch> the 2 hours i spent making that cherrypy/mako/sqlalchemy app yesterday was very enlightening. i'm thinking it might make a good beginner's tutorial session for next year's pyohio. "So you sort of know Python? Let's make a webapp!"
<brousch> go from virtualenv - mod_wsgi
<jrwren> anyone know that status of CVE-2011-3192 on a default ubuntu?
<jrwren> this is teh apache Range header DoS that hit this week.
<snap-l> Haven't seen an update on it
<snap-l> The bug has been around since 2007, though
<jrwren> yes, but only recently discovered, right?
<snap-l> No, it was on the apache bug reporter since 2007
<snap-l> it just got some attention this week
<jrwren> interesting.
<jrwren> attention because active attacks are in the wild.
<jrwren> i should attack myself :)
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> So it's a case of someone finding some old bugs that nobody paid much attention to, and exploiting it
<jrwren> yup, but still important
<brousch> of all the frameworks i've tried so far, pyramid is the easiest to get hooked up right for mod_wsgi
<jrwren> even easier than paste?
<brousch> well it uses paste
<jrwren> oh, cool
<brousch> but i mean for actually getting the app working with mod_wsgi
<brousch> and apache
<brousch> there's a .wsgi file you have to make, and each framework's is a little different
<brousch> and getting that just right and the apache visrtualhost just right is a pain in my ass
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> http://docs.bmark.us/hosting.html#hosting-with-nginx-uwsgi
<rick_h_> brousch: if you get a good apache setup and care to write it down I'd love to add some more apache/wsgi in there
<brousch> https://bmark.us/redirect/0cf3c596df1db0
<brousch> ah, i see what you mean
<brousch> yeah, i'll give it a try
<brousch> bam, it works
<brousch> only gotcha was i had to use the full path to the DB. for some reason i had a relative path, so i'm guessing that's how it was in the instructions
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-27
<rick_h_> jrwren: get into the #bookie channel, pushed a bookmarlet up.
<rick_h_> still needs lot of work, login and go to your account page and a bookmarklet withthe right url is created for you
<rick_h_> the new/edit ui needs some extra error checking/etc (if you've already bookmarked a url and such)
<rick_h_> I'll try to hack on it some more tonight, but just got enough working before the boy got up, yay for early hacking
<rick_h_> hah, except it doesn't work lol, awesome
<rick_h_> there we go, that should work for now
<snap-l> Good morning, noble folk
<snap-l> I've got 67 spam comments on my website
<snap-l> since 8/15
<snap-l> and two of them are pingbacks from some turntable spammers.
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/hsivonen/statuses/107442931207634945 <- Going to explode.
<snap-l> OK, all better now
<brousch> heh, sounds like my python3 non-framework is better than this book http://streamhacker.com/2011/08/27/python-3-web-development-review/
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, it's another case of Packt Publishing whipping out some books
<brousch> snap-l: what do you think about a beginning Python web dev tutorial? sort of take the people just getting into python through being ready for a framework
<brousch> virtualenv, git/mercurial, cherrypy app into template, then sqlite into sqlalchemy
<brousch> deploy on mod_wsgi
<brousch> basically the core of a web framework. explain how the pieces fit together and why
<snap-l> brousch: That would be pretty cool
<brousch> hard part would be tuning it for 1 hour
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-08-28
<rick_h_droid> brousch has a tutorial for next year!
<brousch> that's what i was thinking
<rick_h_> yay i'm back
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> OK, I'm now hooked on City of Wonder.
<jrwren> video game?
<jrwren> or documentary about bread?
<snap-l> It's a video game
<jrwren> *or documentary about bad bread?
<gamerchick02> lol. a documentary about bread. though i've watched a documentary about sandwiches so yeah.
<brousch> https://bitbucket.org/mchaput/whoosh/wiki/Home
<snap-l> Need a chart comparing it to lucene / solr before i can be a sheep and follow. ;)
<snap-l> Pure-Python. No compilation or binary packages needed, no mysterious crashes.
<snap-l> I think Python still has mysterious crashes from time to time. ;)
<snap-l> Pure Python spell-checker (as far as I know, the only one).
<snap-l> If I ever get to a) make a band, and b) go to Pycon with said band, I'm going to call it "Pure Python"
<brousch> snap-l: you ever see "Sorry but this file isn't available for download yet. PleaseÂ try againÂ later." on jamendo?
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea, checked that out, not sure how the per is. I doubt it'll compare to solr/lucene
<rick_h_> but might be better than sqlite/mysql fulltext
<snap-l> brousch: Yeah, I have
<snap-l> not often, but it does happen
<brousch> it says published jan 2011
<snap-l> What album
<snap-l> ?
<snap-l> Hah, I love that Goth Radio uses automatic level compression
<snap-l> Song got quiet, and returned much much louder.
<brousch> http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/83899
<brousch> oohooohohoho http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/08/28/226256/Python-Fiddle-an-IDE-That-Runs-In-Your-Browser
<rick_h_> brousch: cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-20
<derekv> This Developer's Life
<derekv> good.
<rick_h_droid> awesome
<snap-l> http://bluesock.org/~willg/blog/pyvideo/status_20120819.html
<rick_h_droid> the only thing I got out of that was this backlog link doesn't show pyohio at all
<rick_h_droid> http://pyvideo.org/suggestions/videos
<snap-l> Yeah, I know
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/jOBZn.jpg
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha https://twitter.com/zzzeek/status/237344723319271424
<snap-l> rick_h_: That is awesome.
<brousch> rick_h_: suckup :P
<rick_h_droid> you know it
<rick_h_droid> I live on his software libraries, gotta suck up
<brousch> That is awesome though
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, nice to have your programming hero say a nice thing or two.
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<CrusaderAD> Hello, anyone in here familiar with reading usb plug n play devices?
<brousch> Reading?
<CrusaderAD> yep, I've got a Dymo USB pnp scale and was curious how I'd go about reading it's weight. The manufacturer and seller are useless resources.
<snap-l> CrusaderAD: Well, in order to read the device, you'd need something to tell the device what sort of device it should be
<snap-l> whether that's a serial device, or what-not
<snap-l> and then some program to interpret the results.
<snap-l> http://steventsnyder.com/reading-a-dymo-usb-scale-using-python/
<snap-l> You can usually get the vendor ID and device ID by typing `dmesg` soon after plugging in the device.
<snap-l> sorry, product ID, not device ID.
<CrusaderAD> yep, I found that article on google too, I didn't know that about the vendor id, thanks!
<snap-l> np
<CrusaderAD> http://pastebin.com/J7YFSi8L do you know which set of numbers it is?
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/fm
<snap-l> I can finally talk about this. :)
<snap-l> CrusaderAD: one sec. There's an easier way.
<brousch> snap-l: Dammit. That started blasting music when I opened the page
<snap-l> try usb-devices
<snap-l> brousch: UNfortunately yes
<brousch> So streaming metal station?
<CrusaderAD> span-l thanks, that's better
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> With me doing some of the programming (check the schedule)
<snap-l> http://66.55.144.67:8120/radio <- direct link
<brousch> I like span-l. You should change your name
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> Actually I was thinking of changing my handle
<brousch> spankl
<CrusaderAD> snap-l: I'm getting a "usb.core.USBError: [Errno 16] Resource busy" error, any idea what that means?
<smoser> jcastro, do you have your X1 Carbon yet ?
<jcastro> it's too big
<jcastro> but I have been eyeballing it
<smoser> its 14 inch?
<jcastro> also eyeing the X230
<jcastro> yes
<rick_h_> x230 ftw
<rick_h_> dual ssd :)
<jcastro> what a shame about the X1
<jcastro> 14 inch laptop is not an ultrabook, it's just a really thin laptop!
<smoser> that is true. the 14 inch doesn't open all the way in those coach seats.
<rick_h_> I'm debating getting that slice battery before my next conference for the x230
<rick_h_> go all day long!
<rick_h_> jcastro: bug heads up, with the x230 I did have a lockup bug going on and some wifi dropping issues on occassion
<jcastro> I am not buying any time soon
<jcastro> which wifi card on your X230?
<rick_h_> intel
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/yirdc/a_generation_lost_in_the_bazaar/c5vxtc6
<snap-l> CrusaderAD: Try running as root to see if that'll fix it
<CrusaderAD> snap-l: tried with sudo, I get that result
<snap-l> CrusaderAD: Perhaps it has already registered itself as a serial device, then?
<snap-l> Not sure, as I don't have that scale to test. :)
<CrusaderAD> snap-l: no big deal, thanks for the help, I'll keep researching it :)
<rick_h_> cop out
<rick_h_> :P
<snap-l> rick_h_: Feel free to step in
 * rick_h_ goes back to work
<snap-l> The dance continues, even if the partners change. ;)
<jrwren> i wrastled with lvm last night and won.
<jrwren> am tip: if you don't say what kind of mirror log to use it will be disk and lvm will put it on any disk, probably one you didn't want it too
<jrwren> what about the thinkpad t430u, even smaller than 430s ?
<jrwren> snap-l: that ACM post is really just someone who doesn't understand the difference between source and build results and packages.
<jcastro> the 430s looks great
<jcastro> snap-l: do you still have that X130?
<snap-l> jrwren: It's a UNIX Grognard hoping for a retro-world where machines were sacred resources, not something you carried in your pocket.
<snap-l> X120, and yes.
<jcastro> I think I might get the newer one of that model
<jrwren> i'd like to try a samsung seriews 7 or 9 for a year
<snap-l> jcastro: Go for it
<greg-g> snap-l: I haven't read either Chris Randall's pdf, nor this post by Techdirt on it, but, here you go: www.techdirt.com/articles/20120815/15530420064/musician-chris-randall-music-has-no-monetary-value-connections-it-forms-are-priceless.shtml
<brousch> I think snap-l posted that last week
<greg-g> oh, wow, that is from 8/15, huh, I'm a bit behind (Senior Leadership Retreat thing Tues-Thurs, then Tahoe Sat/Sun)
<greg-g> also, who here follows FLOSS Robotics stuff, do you know/have an opinion on http://www.willowgarage.com ?
<krondor> I don't know too much about it, but I like their vision statement.  I dislike that it's bsd license I think
<greg-g> as opposed to apache or gpl?
<greg-g> (apache having clear patent language, gpl being reciprocal)
<krondor> exactly... I also think hardware not just software is going to be big sticking points in robotics but maybe I'm wrong.
<krondor> like patent on grasping hands and locomotion systems and such
<greg-g> we (CC) are going to have a couple people from there come talk to use during our quarterly staff get together, why I asked.
 * greg-g nods
<krondor> I once worked on this, but it was ages ago and I haven't really followed legal hardware stuff in awhile; http://orpp.sourceforge.net/
<greg-g> yeah, the open hardware problem is a tough legal nut to crack
<greg-g> patents are horribly hard to deal with
<jrwren> how can you dislike BSD Liencse?  its the freeest of free!
<greg-g> kiiinda
<greg-g> define free ;)
<greg-g> I like to know that the software I'm using doesn't also have patents attached
<greg-g> patents that will be enforced on me, that is
<jrwren> free for me to use.
<jrwren> only thing freer is CC0 or PD
<greg-g> (yes, there is no gaurantee that some random other entity doesn't have a patent covering the exact same process, thus, the quagmire of open patents)
<jrwren> free to abuse
<jrwren> free to embrace and extend
<jrwren> patents can diaf :)
<greg-g> word.
<jrwren> the red flag of patents gets raised far too often.
<jrwren> rule 1 of patent fear: don't be afraid, if you are so big that someone wants to come after you for infringement, you are already a success.
<greg-g> its the reason CC0 isn't an OSI approved option
<jrwren> rule 2 of patent fear: if you are still reading, you arn't a success and are small potatoes, so go get successful and stop fearing the patents
<krondor> jrwren: in software I would agree on patents, in hardware I would disagree.
<jrwren> why?
<krondor> because I've seen small time companies slapped with patent suits early in dev stages after demoing a prototype on a tradeshow floor
<jrwren> sucks to be them.
<krondor> my point being that in hardware patents are much more often enforced (and probably more legitimate than software).  Which is fine.
<krondor> But in open source robotics the fear is that because they're much more often enforced the open source startup will be bullied even if there is prior art as the field is new.
<krondor> Big companies have an opportunity to grab patents on the X ways to do Y, which given laws of phyics, might be the only viable ways to do Y leaving you at an impass
<jrwren> sounds like fud
<greg-g> it isn't though
<greg-g> patents should diaf, not only because FLOSS hardware startups are bullied with them
<jrwren> snap-l: someone commented on reddit and now its gone or I can't find it. They said "ah you used my favorite stack, pyramid, mako, etc..."
<jrwren> and I was looking for the list of etc.
<jrwren> sqlalchemy is in there, but I can't find this comment.
<rick_h_> jrwren: that was mike bayer on twitter
<rick_h_> he wrote sqlalchemy, mako, and alembic
<greg-g> E_TOO_MANY_SOCIAL_STREAMS
<jrwren> rick_h_: ah, thanks.
<rick_h_> https://twitter.com/zzzeek/status/237344723319271424
<jrwren> thanks again.
<jrwren> that is above and beyond
<rick_h_> yea, nice to get kind words from your programming heros and all that
<snap-l> greg-g: That techdirt article on Chris Randall's post is an excellent summary
<snap-l> And i posted the original article. Saw the Chris Randall post this morning.
<snap-l> er, the Techdirt summary
<brousch> Ooooh, this has potential http://www.geeknote.me/
<brousch> Evernote command line client
<snap-l> nice!
<jjesse> anyone listen to the interview w/ Leo Laporte and the CEO of Evernote?
<jjesse> i think it was on triangulation or whatever it is called
<rick_h_> jjesse: yea
<rick_h_> listened to half of it
<jjesse> i thought it was very interesting, said the company was willing/open to an Open Source version of Evernote
<jjesse> and i think he even mentioned they might help fund it?
<rick_h_> yea
<jjesse> i thought that was pretty cool
<rick_h_> time to add an 'evernote suppor level' to your kickstarter for your linux app :)
<rick_h_> hmmm, think this geeknote could just be dropbox + grep though
<rick_h_> but one guy on my bookie reddit thread brought up his bookmark tool he wrote that used evernote as a backend to sync off
<rick_h_> interesting idea for backup strategy, and our notes would be cool because they have web page content
 * snap-l sees a bookie dropbox api in the future
<rick_h_> I debate on that. I think it only makes sense for non-html content like pdfs and such you might 'bookmark'
<snap-l> "Make offline"
<snap-l> or even "sync to dropbox"
<snap-l> You already have readable support
<rick_h_> yea, one day I guess
<snap-l> drop it in my read_review folder on dropbox, and I love you long time. ;)
<rick_h_> well yea, i did think about dropping the readable content you mark !toread into a single .html file and dump into dropbox
<rick_h_> yea, exactly
<rick_h_> it's part of the work for the reading view to do
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/yiw4s/instead_of_buying_instagram_for_1_billion_cash/ <- ouch
<snap-l> NIce to see the logging bot back here
<snap-l> Dropbox acting strange for anyone else?
<brousch> Not that I noticed
<snap-l> hurm
<jcastro> jrwren: hah, stay classy yahoo answers
<jrwren> hahaha.
<snap-l> ?
<snap-l> Just saw twitter
<snap-l> I'd trust Yahoo Answers to let me know how to get crumbs out of my toaster with a fork sooner than trust them for anything else.
<brousch> So sad. I think Django will get Python3 support before Flask
<jrwren> it was funny.
<jrwren> yahoo answers is entertainment.
<greg-g> really, they should just rebrand it as the StackExchange for Comedy
<Blazeix> StackExchange: Jersey Shore Edition
<jrwren> haha, nice, both of you.
<waldo323_> wait, yahoo answers isn't run by the onion?
 * snap-l loves UHF
<snap-l> just picked up four Obituary CDs
<snap-l> to add to the two that I picked up last time.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-21
<derekv> i'm listening to This Developer's Life about fonts and feeling stupid I don't pick all my fonts
<derekv> like what the hell is in xterm by default.  no idea
<rick_h_droid> lol
<rick_h_droid> that's one giant rabbit hole
<derekv> but then that just gets into why am I using xterm...
<rick_h_droid> I started down it but pulled up
<derekv> yea in the end its just about hours in the day
<rick_h_droid> well I do get picky in my terminal and editor
<derekv> well i hope that in my next life I get to control my enviroment better
<derekv> not java eclipse
<rick_h_droid> ugh
<derekv> actually after 1.2 weeks at cengage that is my only complaint.  its all java
<derekv> its java/eclipse all day, but at least its on ubuntu, and when I said I thought vim and emacs were vastly better editors, it didn't lead into a 30 minute discussion where I have to explain that people still use those
<derekv> is anyone going to strangeloop?
<derekv> other than me?
<derekv> http://fox13now.com/2012/08/20/school-holds-valedictorians-diploma-for-saying-hell/
<derekv> haha
<derekv> as a justifiable stereotype, people in charge of k12 tend to be enourmous idiots
<snap-l> http://lorddvirgil.bandcamp.com/track/nothing-compares-2-u <- This kinda works
<derekv> you should see drew's message to me about eclipse
<derekv> there's been about three times since I read it that I, due to nothing odd going on around me at work, seriously contemplated silently just walking away from the job
<snap-l> eh?
<snap-l> http://phoenicz.bandcamp.com/ <- First song
<snap-l> Now to try to put together an episode. :)
<snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/list/a112796?autoplay=1 <- Why I don't visit Jamendo much for new music.
<snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/fm
<rick_h_> morning
<snap-l> https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/8/16/2iY5rgV0gkWvp4ql3HYrBg2.jpg
<brousch> I don't get it
<rick_h_> nice mirror
<brousch> That's all it is? A mirror?
<rick_h_> it's a TP mirror, nough said :)
<nullspace> would be nice if it was a two way mirror
<rick_h_> everyone started their uploads to AWS Glacier?
<rick_h_> backup my NAS for $10/mo
<nullspace> rick_h_: first I 've heard of it, my finger is off the data services of amazon pulse
<rick_h_> news came out overnight, a blog worth subscribing to
<rick_h_> amazed at the new services each time
<rick_h_> http://aws.typepad.com/
<nullspace> oh wow nice service
<nullspace> exactly what I've been looking for
<rick_h_> yea, think I might have to start an upload for music/photos and my backups pre-install for the last couple of installs
<rick_h_> whenever I do a fresh install I snapshot the /home /etc and such off to my NAS
<brousch> "Amazon Glacier is optimized for data that is infrequently accessed and for which retrieval times of several hours are suitable"
<brousch> Several hours? WTF
<snap-l> Think robotic tape
<rick_h_> yep
<snap-l> It's for backups, not for on-demand storage like Netflix
<snap-l> This is cool, but I'm still married to the idea of using rsync
<brousch> You love it so much you married it?
<rick_h_> right, but this is great for "ok, all those 2011 files, sync off to glacier"
<rick_h_> or "phew, ripped all my cds, let's put them into Glacrier"
<rick_h_> and forget it
<rick_h_> data you can't lose, but that doesn't/rarely changes
<rick_h_> thinking of doing one for each year's photos
<brousch> jrwren: http://www.meetup.com/A2-CocoaHeads/?a=socialmedia
<brousch> rick_h_: That's a good idea
<rick_h_> dammit I hate taxes/companies/etc.
<brousch> You can't hate taxes and companies. You have to pick one or the other
<rick_h_> no, I can hate them both
<brousch> Unless you're some kind of back to the cave man days
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> http://www.youtube.com/NextDayVideo new videos yay
<brousch> NextMonthVideo
<brousch> Those are from some other conference
<rick_h_> yea, they're still going through a py science conference that went down
<rick_h_> but at least new videos again means they're working through the log
<rick_h_> get my hopes way way up!
<jcastro> rick_h_: hey you do any home automation?
<rick_h_> jcastro: no, I keep thinking of tring something, but nothing jumps out as great
<rick_h_> I might get a nest here soon, but about it
<jcastro> I spent a few hours last night on it
<jcastro> can't wait to sync up for all sorts of house things when I get up there
<jcastro> I have many questions
<rick_h_> I've got a guy that does the stuff
<rick_h_> good friend, installs systems, home theaters, etc
<jcastro> oh excellent
<rick_h_> http://www.go-cybernet.com
<jcastro> I will need some small-time stuff
<rick_h_> him and his dad run a company doing it
<jcastro> ah perfect
<rick_h_> Control 4 System (that's the stuff they tend to use)
<jcastro> I need like my tv mounted with a proper bracket, and the new place is wired for surround but like I need the speakers professionally ceiling mounted, etc.
<rick_h_> yea
<jcastro> oh dude
<jcastro> it looks like these guys run wires
<rick_h_> yea
<jcastro> man, this can get expensive for me
<jcastro> hah
<rick_h_> yes, it's crazy
<rick_h_> they've done whole multi-seat theaters and such
<rick_h_> multi-row I mean
<rick_h_> with lifting decks, powered tvs/wall bits, etc
<jcastro> nod
<rick_h_> but http://www.go-cybernet.com/systemideas.html they've got the 'simple' two room install kind of thing
<rick_h_> I keep waiting for the android stuff to take off but seems it fell dead on the vine :(
<rick_h_> I thought that was going to be brilliant
<jcastro> which android stuff
<rick_h_> from IO not this last year, but the year before
<rick_h_> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/10/google-announces-android-at-home-framework/
<jrwren> derekv: that This Developer's Life about fonts was one of their best
<rick_h_> but hey, put up a G+ post asking something and I'll mention my buddy into the comments if you want
<jcastro> ah
<jcastro> yeah, it seems the home automation stuff is niche
<jcastro> microsoft tried it too and they shut theirs down last year
<jcastro> Microsoft Hohm or whatever
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> well that was their home server product I thought
<jcastro> I am looking at some zwave stuff right now
<jcastro> for lights and power stuff
<rick_h_> yea, I'm sure my buddy can give you the low down.
<jcastro> nod
<rick_h_> it's funny, he does all these installs but his house is very basic
<rick_h_> just a control for a couple of tvs and a mount
<jcastro> I mostly need wires and stuff and installation
<jcastro> I don't like most AV gear's integration crap, they all suck
<rick_h_> yea, they send out monkeys to come out, wire, and hook up to the internet. THen he hooks up from Cadillac MI and programs the stuff remote for the most part
<jcastro> the AV receivers are the worst.
<rick_h_> ugh, yea I need to get a new one. My AV is pre-hdmi
<jcastro> I don't want 500 shitty DSPs, I want a bunch of HDMI ports, and a volume knob
<rick_h_> and my sub went boom
<jcastro> yeah same as mee
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> one day, we just don't use the tv much for anything besides netflix/west wing on AMZ right now, and usually chilling in the guest room for that
<jcastro> I have all the gear already
<jcastro> I <3 movies
<rick_h_> ah very cool then
<rick_h_> what did you get for a recevier?
<jcastro> It's a yamaha I've had since 2000 or so
<rick_h_> ah
<jcastro> 5.1 DTS, etc.
<jcastro> it's still a good receiver
<jrwren> brousch: that cocoaheads group is good, but I stopped doing cocoa :)
<jcastro> I am just getting annoyed with a seperate volume control
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I keep thinking of getting the harmony just to ditch the multiple remotes/etc
<jcastro> yeah but I hate those remotes
<jcastro> the repurposed boxee remote is my favorite. Up, down, left, right, enter, and back.
<jcastro> that's it.
<rick_h_> hah
<brousch> jrwren: You're the only Apphole I know near AA
<jcastro> rick_h_: the thing is the lady who originally ordered the house got it wired for 5.1
<jcastro> but all the plates are in the ceiling
<jcastro> I think she was planning like bose-size speakers being ceiling mounted
<rick_h_> yea, can't get as good of sound out of that, but it's not horrible
<jcastro> of course all my gear is ... floor stuff
<rick_h_> I've seen a couple installs of the ceiling stuff
<jcastro> but I'll use the surround ceiling mounts
<rick_h_> ah, gotcha
<jcastro> so I'm going to get like 2 ceiling mounts
<rick_h_> yea, they can wire/update that. With the floor stuff you can go 7.1 :P
<jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-On-Wall-Speaker-White/dp/B0018QNYXA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345561651&sr=8-2&keywords=polk+owm
<jcastro> the nice thing is the thing is already wired
<jcastro> I just need like the blank plate replaced with a real speaker plate, and the speakers themselves mounted.
<rick_h_> right
<jcastro> and a bunch of ethernet run, heh
<jcastro> dumb, all new construction, there's plenty of coax
<jcastro> but no ethernet
<jcastro> but of course, normal phone cable everywhere!
<jcastro> grrr
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> no basement?
<rick_h_> <3 basements for just running wire everywhere
<jcastro> yeah, huge basement
<rick_h_> then you're set
<jcastro> it should be like, real easy
<jcastro> the thing is, I suck at finishing touches that pros are awesome at
<rick_h_> yea, they do run that stuff nice/invisible
<jcastro> like, running the cable is easy, it's the nice finished look with the right plates, etc that I suck at
<jcastro> if you came over it'd be a hole in the wall with a cable coming out of it.
<rick_h_> one day I'll setup a bunch of these with PoE http://www.lctinc.net/pages/nj220_features.asp
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> see, that is hot
<jcastro> bummer it's 10/100
<rick_h_> man, you'd think they'd have updated that
<jcastro> one thing I am investigating
<jcastro> is all computers in the basement
<jcastro> even the desktops
<rick_h_> http://www.amazon.com/HP-3CNJ1000-Intellijack-Gigabit-Switch/dp/B001870F7C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345562013&sr=8-1&keywords=3CNJ1000
<jcastro> and run display/usb up
<rick_h_> hah, run kvm over IP across the house
<snap-l> jcastro: I'm running X10 at the moment for lights and such
<snap-l> and Squeezebox for music stuff
<snap-l> that's as far down the rabbit hole as I've managed
<jrwren> jcastro: the normal phone cable is cat5e if it is new construction, just reterminate with rj45 instead of rj11 and you are good to go.
<jcastro> !!! What?
<jcastro> that would be _awesome_!
<jrwren> my place was built in 2003 and that is what i did.
<jrwren> i am going through the pyramid tutorial and just saw the toolbar for first time. good lord, no wonder you like it. it is beautiful and has all sorts of awesome to it.
<snap-l> Yeah, our apartment used cat5e. Basically, they can put in two phone lines via that cable
<snap-l> Was kind of a mindwarp when I first saw it
<rick_h_> jrwren: heh, well that's a more recent development and I actually don't use it in my dev bookie install
<rick_h_> jrwren: but glad you like it :)
<rick_h_> pyramid in a sentence: sqlalchemy + mako + well thought design + 100% test coverage + wsgi through and through == win
<snap-l> Django in one sentence: Django == deal with it.
<brousch> jrwren: Is it that much different from django-debug-toolbar?
<jrwren> snap-l: 4 phone lines, but only 2 on an rj11
<jrwren> brousch: i've not tried django-debug-toolbar, maybe I should.
<jrwren> but hte difference is it was OOTB with pyramid, with django, I have to know about it and add it.
<brousch> It's one of the things the Django devs say everyone should be using
<jrwren> it was also introduced in the first 'creating a project' tutorial
<jrwren> brousch: i'm not in touch with the django community enough to know these things.
<jrwren> what other things do they say? :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Ah, right. I"m thinking of the old grounding and ring wires.
<brousch> django-security is another
<jrwren> yeah, you won't be driving a phone with that kidn of ringer on todays wiring :)
<brousch> Sorry, django-secure
<brousch> South
<jrwren> finally one I know about!
<brousch> I think that's all of the must-use modules
<rick_h_> yea, django debugtoolbar came first
<rick_h_> which was copied from the php framework symphony I believe
<rick_h_> good idea...pass it around
<brousch> symfony
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> That was the last thing of PHP I looked at
<jrwren> reminds me of teh thing that stackoverflow made for asp.net, miniprofiler I think it is called
<brousch> I typed it wrong 100 times, which is why I remember it
<brousch> jrwren: Have you tried Flask at all?
<jrwren> no.
<rick_h_> repoze.profile
<rick_h_> it's good being wsgi
<rick_h_> $#@$@ django
<brousch> Put it on your list of stuff to play with after Pyramid
<brousch> rick_h_ eh?
<brousch> Django kill your dog again?
<jrwren> repoze is pyramid :)
<rick_h_> jrwren: don't say that out loud lest you get shouted down for being loads of wrong
<jrwren> oh, maybe i did look at flast.
<rick_h_> brousch: you mentioned a small app/trick to profile your app
<jrwren> er, flask
<rick_h_> brousch: repoze.profile, being true wsgi middleware is a one liner to get running and profiling all your app requests
<jrwren> repoze.bfg
<rick_h_> but can't use it in django because it's fake ass wsgi
<jrwren> http://docs.pylonsproject.org/en/latest/faq/pyramid.html
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, but it's a LONG way from taht
<brousch> rick_h_: Have you tried Pyramid on Python3 yet?
<rick_h_> brousch: no, one day I hope to get bookie up to py3
<rick_h_> I've replaced most of the non-py3 libraries I use
<brousch> Hosting is the bugger now I think
<rick_h_> ec2 ftw
<rick_h_> but yea, it's like php5
<brousch> Right
<rick_h_> it takes until the server OSes start shipping with it ootb before it takes off
<rick_h_> until they do, it'll be in the background
<brousch> Heh, Dreamhost is still Python2.6, and I had to bed for that
<brousch> beg
<rick_h_> make it more work to install a backwards python in order to run your apps and see if py3 stuff doesn't start coming out in a hurry
<brousch> Django on Py3 will help a lot. All of the Django-focused Python webapp hosts will have to support 3
<rick_h_> yea, but server still matters
<rick_h_> dreamhost still has customers galore without supporting 2.7/3.X
<rick_h_> just because django supports py3 doesn't mean hosts will add it until the server does
<snap-l> Wow, this Apress e-mail couldn't have worse timing
<snap-l> How to Create the Next Facebook: Seeing your Startup through,
<snap-l> from Idea to IPO
<snap-l> Beginning Facebook Game Apps Development
<snap-l> Beginning iOS Apps with Facebook and Twitter APIs
<snap-l> Maybe that's why they're on sale. ;)
<jrwren> i'm still targetting 2.6
<jrwren> there just isn't that much compelling to upgrade. its lots of little things, but nothing absolutely MUST HAVE
<rick_h_> 2.7 ftw
<brousch> jrwren: Well it's out of active support, so they are only releasing security fixes as source code. So if you want to patch security holes you have to compile it yourself. Also, security patches will go away Oct 2013
<brousch> http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.6.8/
<jrwren> what is security? :)
<snap-l> It's that thing that keeps us from having what we want.
<jrwren> 2.6.8 just has a few patches, if you aren't exposing those api to external input, then you need not worry about the security.
<greg-g> I think I couldn't contribute to a lot of different open source projects, I keep checking on my merge requests
<greg-g> and thus, wasting time
<greg-g> maybe if I just contribute to a bunch of them, then I wouldn't be able to track them all.
<rick_h_> huh?
<greg-g> ... or if they would just give me commit privs
<rick_h_> ah, trouble waiting on the owners of the repos?
<greg-g> oh, I just have a tab open that I refresh every now and then for a merge request I sent this morning
<greg-g> yeah
<rick_h_> heh, sign up for emails and let it go
<rick_h_> some people take forever
<rick_h_> took me a month to get a "looking this over why didn't you do this?"
<rick_h_> now it's a month ago and I don't recall what "this" is
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> That's because it's not this, it's that.
<snap-l> Yeah, e-mail or bust when it comes to waiting for other people.
<greg-g> :)
 * greg-g is impatient!
<snap-l> greg-g: Yeah, I know nothing about impatience.
 * snap-l is Captain Gratification
<jrwren> greg-g: just train yourself to fire and forget your patches & change requests.
<greg-g> yes yes, I'm real good at training myself to change my habits, uh huh
<brousch> Do I smell sarcasm?
<jrwren> for some reason, i'm good at fire and forget patches & CR
<rick_h_> boo can't figure out how to submit a comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3892476
<snap-l> Which is why I'm regularly saving money, exercising, and doing regular programming development.
<jrwren> snap-l: i do all those things.
<jrwren> brousch: just found out that at work we are shipping something with flask and mako
<brousch> nice!
<rick_h_> jrwren: mako ftw
<rick_h_> flask is acceptable :P
<rick_h_> at least it's wsgi
<rick_h_> and armin is pretty damn smart
<jrwren> we do a ton with ancient stuff that is non wsgi too
<brousch> Really?
<rick_h_> burn him!
<rick_h_> can anyone else reply to that HN thread?
<jrwren> no reason to upgrade if it works
<brousch> I think the only thing I touched pre-WSGI was CherryPy
<rick_h_> I'm logged in, is there some karma system I'm not high enough up on?
<brousch> I don't even have a login there
<jrwren> rick_h_: no i can't. i'm going to guess it is closed because it is so old
<rick_h_> oh wtf...that just hit my rss feed today
<rick_h_> ok, nvm then
<rick_h_> thanks jrwren
<greg-g> so, who's going to use Amazon Glacier for backups?
<rick_h_> thinking about it for my photos, one bucket per year, my music, and bookie db backups > 1mo old
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> I need to learn how to talk to AWS
<rick_h_> boto + python, easy as pie
<greg-g> I'll guess I'll just sit back and wait for the awesome tools to support it (or be created around it)
<rick_h_> the guy that writes boto is hired by AWS
<rick_h_> it should support it inside a week I'd guess
<rick_h_> and then just script it and check out s3cmd which will add to it
<rick_h_> although hmm, guess s3cmd might not
<rick_h_> but yea, I'd give it a week/two for the tools to add up
<greg-g> yeah, and thinking about the best way to interact with it, that'll take me a bit
<jrwren> same here re: glacier. i'd been archiving to S3 anyway, and rarely reading. Glacer just reduced the cost from a few dollars to pennies.
<rick_h_> right
<brousch> rick_h_: I started a Makefile for my barcamp session grid project
<brousch> Very useful
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-22
<jjesse-phone> Ok this is cool on IRC through quassel with the core running on my netbook
<jjesse-phone> Now need to configure router to allow it through
<jjesse-android> This works very well in both my phone on wifi and my nexus 7
<snap-l> New version of Version Control with Git is out.
<rick_h_> broumorning
<rick_h_> oops morning
<snap-l> It's a brouumorning everywhere
<rick_h_> heh
<rick_h_> started to reply to brousch using make last night but he was offline so tab complete failed
<rick_h_> and had that in the input for this morning
<snap-l> Yeah, I hate that
<snap-l> Why can't he idle on channel like everyone else?
<rick_h_> there he is
<brousch> Who?
<rick_h_> you
<rick_h_> I was talking to myself after you left last night when I saw your makefile comment
<brousch> Hah, sorry
<brousch> I'm just using your epic Bookie Makefile to scrape out things I need
<rick_h_> hah, sorry
<rick_h_> start with the smaller ones
<brousch> No, that one is good
<rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/breadability/blob/master/Makefile
<rick_h_> is lighter and easier
<brousch> Do you have anything where you read a config to set things up?
<brousch> Such as the location of the venv on my system would depend on a line in a config file
<brousch> Or would the Makefile call a Python script that does all the config stuff?
<rick_h_> well everything is based off the bookie.ini, which is a copy of sample.ini
<rick_h_> and that's passed to all the commands that need it
<rick_h_> why the bookie makefile has a BOOKIE_INI or whatever it is
<brousch> Ah, so when you call a command that needs some config, you pass it the location of the ini
<brousch> Nice
<rick_h_> right
<rick_h_> and you can override the ini by changing your make command
<rick_h_> make BOOKIE_INI=test.ini run_something
<rick_h_> and then the command runs with a different ini file to run that command
<brousch> That is slick
<rick_h_> yea so see:
<rick_h_> BOOKIE_INI = bookie.ini
<rick_h_> SAURL = $(shell grep sqlalchemy.url $(BOOKIE_INI) | cut -d "=" -f 2 | tr -d " ")
<rick_h_> I actually pull out the sqlalchemy url from the ini that's being used for some stuff
<rick_h_> and then launch celery background process (for example)
<rick_h_> run_celery: BOOKIE_INI=$(BOOKIE_INI) $(CELERY) --pidfile celeryd.pid &
<brousch> cool
<brousch> See, I need the epic Bookie Makefile ;)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> well if you get stuck let me know. I do some nutsy stuff in there that can throw off new users
<brousch> I'm not sure how far I'll get on it. Basically as I find a command I have typed a few times I'm adding it in there
<rick_h_> good go
<rick_h_> try to keep it organized though
<rick_h_> keep like things together
<rick_h_> makes it easier to manage
<rick_h_> testing things, setup/install things, untilities, etc
<brousch> What is this testing you speak of?
<rick_h_> yea right, never mind. Just stick them in the same file one after another without any comments
<rick_h_> and call them all things like: do_more
<brousch> Hey! Like the rest of my code!
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> Does order matter?
<rick_h_> so yes and no
<rick_h_> make
<rick_h_> without any arguments will run the first target
<rick_h_> aside from that, no not really. Order whatever makes sense
<brousch> So the first target should be help
<rick_h_> generally it's a clean and build
<snap-l> Convention is generallt that make by itself will build
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> notice my first command is all
<brousch> I don't like that convention
<rick_h_> which will setup things
<snap-l> It's a grand convention
<rick_h_> right, that's what you're saying. Definitely don't do it this way :P
<snap-l> handed down for generations
<rick_h_> otherwise people will start to wonder about you
<snap-l> and they will start the proceedings for your excommunication
<rick_h_> ssssh, he's not supposed to know those meetings are going on
<snap-l> I would have thought the catering bill we're sticking him with would have given it away?
<rick_h_> it's in the mail still
<brousch> Must be a lot more people involved than I thought
<snap-l> damn front office
<rick_h_> I sent it via the bounched returned address method
<snap-l> Ah, good call
<snap-l> I would have just done a direct invoice
<rick_h_> I assumed he auto shredded those
<rick_h_> this way it looks like he wrote it
<snap-l> And that's why you're the Senior Excommunicator
<snap-l> VP
<snap-l> and I'm just the Operator
<snap-l> with the Pocket Calculator
<Blazeix> rick_h_: saw your tweet about CHC. we were planning to meet at the older caribou, weren't we?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: I talked with my neighbords who are cruise regulars and they say we'll be fine
<rick_h_> bah, neighbors
<rick_h_> Blazeix: so since we already didn't pay/show up on one week I'd rather go there if we can
<snap-l> OK, so Woodward?
<rick_h_> snap-l: rgr
<snap-l> Because I think Julie at MH is going to save us a table otherwise.
<rick_h_> yea, after talking with my neighbors I got wondering if we'd lose any reservations/issues with the woodward place not paying back to back weeks
<rick_h_> since they assured me it clears out rather keep the normal schedule
<rick_h_> if if they're wrong...then everyone can hang me from the flag pole for screwing up again
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> We won't hang you from the flagpole
<snap-l> THat would be too easy. ;)
<brousch> Hang him by his leopard-print thong
 * rick_h_ schedules a stop at the summer set mall on my way to CHC tonight
<Blazeix> rick_h_: ok, cool. i won't be able to make it anyway, just wanted to double-check :)
<Blazeix> the manager at the old CHC was going to reserve some tables for us, we should probably cancel that.
<Blazeix> i can call and do that if nobody else has done that yet
<rick_h_> Blazeix: that'd be great. I was going ot bug snap-l since he was close and has chatted with her
<rick_h_> but if you can that would be awesome, appreciate it
<Blazeix> ok, cancelled, i think. the person i spoke to had no idea that the tables were being held
<Blazeix> since i imagine that it was just an informal thing
<rick_h_> yea, I think that was just the person we tend to see there
<rick_h_> right
<Blazeix> so the person left a note that we don't need them held.
<rick_h_> cool thanks Blazeix
<jrwren> if anyone is in AA, I'll be going to fanzoo tech tonight for their thing.
<jrwren> last month i worked on ubuntu-docs, and that pull request just sat idle, so I won't contribute to that again.
<rick_h_> ugh
<jrwren> idle pull requests are disheartening, but I'm positive. I learned a lot generating it. I just need to find something else.
<rick_h_> yea, greg-g was just talking about that last night
<jrwren> oh?
<jrwren> where at? g+?
<rick_h_> irc
<jrwren> what channel?
<rick_h_> he was hitting refresh on some pull request over and over
<rick_h_> in here I thought
<jrwren> oh. yeah, afternoon.
<jrwren> last night to me is post-6pm :)
<rick_h_> ah, well I didn't recall to be exact :P
<jrwren> its all good. i was being a time pedant.
<snap-l> Blazeix: Thanks, good sir
<snap-l> rick_h_: You have my mobile number, right? :)
<snap-l> or at least the GV number? ;)
<rick_h_> snap-l: yea
<rick_h_> I had it last time just misread my phone or something
<snap-l> test, please. ;)
 * snap-l changed the location again
<snap-l> recv
<snap-l> tx
<snap-l> Apparently my Squeezebox is in a trippy mood
<snap-l> Rildrim followed by Ozric Tentacles
<snap-l> I'm not complaining
<greg-g> rick_h_: jrwren good news, the pull request was accepted while I slept :)
<snap-l> greg-g: Awesome news.
<greg-g> g'morning, btw
<greg-g> snap-l: so its been two years of OMC?
<snap-l> Yep. Started on 2010
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2010/08/17/open-metalcast-episode-1-open-the-gates/
<greg-g> crazy!!
<snap-l> Yeah, no kidding
<greg-g> and awesome. I love it.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<brousch> A watched pull request is never merged
<snap-l> Would love to talk to someone at CC about what I've discovered. :)
<snap-l> ie: places like bandcamp get musicians thinking about CC
<snap-l> and places like FMA are essentially where the computer folks play musicians. ;)
<snap-l> (FMA = Free Music Archive)
<ColonelPanic001> I did not realize OMC was that old
<snap-l> Yep, now it's in the terrible twos. ;)
<greg-g> quit your whinning
<ColonelPanic001> congrats
<snap-l> Thank you.
<snap-l> greg-g: :-P
<greg-g> bbian
<greg-g> s/n/b/
<brousch> NextDayvideo is publishing a bunch of PyConAU videos now
<rick_h_> *sigh*
<jrwren> Error: Settings cannot be imported, because environment variable DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE is undefined.
<jrwren> ^^^ why doesn't it just deafult to settings and then if that doesn't exist error?
<rick_h_> because django and their 'magic settings' crap is irritating
<jrwren> indeed.
<rick_h_> "oh that's a default setting, it's not listed"
<jrwren> there are some nice things about their settings system, but nothing python doesn't give for free anyway
<rick_h_> "oh, well the order the setting files are collapsed isn't what you think"
<jrwren> oh, i'm fine with default settings and implicity
<rick_h_> "oh, just set this setting, which isn't in the docs, but if you check the source..oh that's these two settings then you're set"
<rick_h_> I seemed to keep running up against crazy settings fun
<jrwren> i've heard their docs got a lot better in 1.3 release.
<jrwren> or was it 1.4?
<rick_h_> this was in June
<jrwren> oh.
<rick_h_> after 1.4
<jrwren> hell if I know then.
<rick_h_> :)
<jrwren> i'm working on projects on 1.2
<rick_h_> yea, I railed out against how everyone says the docs are so great but I kept finding the docs/source not sync'ing
<brousch> You can specify a settings file with --settings=/path/to/your/settings
<rick_h_> but I'm a hater, so I was using it wrong :P
<brousch> That works on syncdb, runserver, etc
<jrwren> test?
<rick_h_> the test runner auto ignores some settings stuff by the way
<rick_h_> ...grumble...
<jrwren> yup
<rick_h_> one day I'm going to write a book about my inlaws
<rick_h_> that's my retirement plan I think
<greg-g> if only Yehuda Moon was still not subscription only, wolger, snap-l and jrwren would love this one www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=2012-08-22
<greg-g> (its a $1/mo subscription for 3 comics/wk)
<snap-l> I could still see it
<greg-g> oh, really? they may have made the switch to open again
<greg-g> oh, no, that didn't work
<greg-g> weird, that link isn't being dealt with intelligently
<greg-g> apparenlty, if you aren't logged in, you get to see each monday's comic (press previous, it goes back a week).
<snap-l> Ah, well cool that I could see it
<snap-l> not sure I'd pay $1 a week for it. :)
<greg-g> Also, apparenlty, if you load a url for a non-Monday comic and you aren't logged in, you just see the previous monmday's
<snap-l> month, rather.
<jrwren> i heard aws's new thingy described as being super expensive for recovery. so maybe I'll stick with s3
<rick_h_> yea, guess the recovery pricing is on some strange per day quota setup
<snap-l> Leave it to Amazon to cone up with strange pricing
<greg-g> how expensive?
<rick_h_> the one example on TC I think was $2k expensive
 * greg-g should look at that
<rick_h_> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/08/glacier/
<rick_h_> is the article that sets up the nightmare scenario
<snap-l> Quick sqlalchemy question: how do I return two values from a query?
<snap-l> I'm looking to do something like "select id, max(somedate) from foo where ..."
<jcastro> rick_h_: ok I've spent a few nights investigating home automation
<jcastro> I am ready for next nerd brain-dump
<jrwren> snap-l: what would that query even do?
<jrwren> about 1/2 way down the page on literal sql: http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_7/orm/tutorial.html
<jrwren> most ORMs don't support projections since it doesn't work with identity map, which is part of the point of using an ORM
<jrwren> as soon as you are projecting you are in a special world where the orm is used only as a sql generation tool.
<Blazeix> snap-l: also see http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_7/orm/tutorial.html#counting
<Blazeix> the second codeblock
<Blazeix> oh, i was assuming you're doing a max(somedate) over a grouping
<snap-l> n/m. I think I'm on to somethihng
<snap-l> or I'm on something.
<waldo323_> jcastro, what have you found out so far?
<rick_h_> jcastro: heading out to CHC, drop what you think and I'll reply when I get there
<rick_h_> snap-l: bring it to CHC and I can see if I can help
<snap-l> rick_h_: n/m, fugured itout
<rick_h_> snap-l: cool
<jrwren> rick_h_: any reason pyinotify instead of watchdog ?
<rick_h_> jrwren: no, just that watchdog had some limitation I think
<rick_h_> watchdog can run a command, but doesn't have access at the raw files I think? I'd have to look again
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-23
<jrwren> rick_h_: i'm gonna swap out pyinotify for watchdog so i can run on osx for dev 8D
<rick_h_> jrwren: sure thing
<jrwren> "You already have an import waiting in the queue." is there a way i can see my queue
<rick_h_> make run_celery
<rick_h_> will run celery and start processing the queue items
<rick_h_> the queue is visible via the db you use
<rick_h_> it's dumped there by default, look in the kombu_queue and kombu_message
<jrwren> ty
<rick_h_> you have to b64decode the messages
<jrwren> i'll investigate
<jrwren> i don't know anything about celery, so I'll be difing in
<rick_h_> ok, what's the issue?
<rick_h_> <3 @voidspace https://gist.github.com/3436363
<rick_h_> new test case for all projects!
<brousch> heh
<brousch> My projects would never pass!
<rick_h_> I bet it wouldn't take long to get working
<brousch> Step 1: Remember how to run tests
<snap-l> heh
<rick_h_> make test
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> nice
<brousch> Actually PyDev does a lot of that for me right in the editor
<brousch> Ah damnit. I tried to run it on my Python2.5 project and it failed
<shakes808> Good morning all
<jjesse> morning shakes808
<snap-l> Good morning
<shakes808> How was CHC last night? I was going to come by but had to go back to my side of town. I might be coming next week.
<snap-l> It was good. Had Trevor Fitzgerald show back up
<snap-l> We've missed you these past few weeks / months. :)
<shakes808> That's cool. Wish I would have shown up.
<shakes808> AW isn't that sweet! :) ;) How is everything at the office?
<snap-l> Same ol' same ol. Too much to do, not enough hours to get it done right.
<snap-l> How's the hunt?
<shakes808> So nothing has changed I see lol
<shakes808> I am working for a mortgage company now
<shakes808> Started this week.
<snap-l> Ah, very cool
<shakes808> Getting settled in and learning things lol
<rick_h_> shakes808: moving on up in the world?
<rick_h_> didn't know you weren't at morpace any more
<shakes808> LOL Trying to.
<rick_h_> doing python? :)
<shakes808> Haven't been for about 3 weeks now
<snap-l> Lnger than that, hasn't it?
<shakes808> Haven't really touched any programming in a while. I have been doing family things and actually spending time with my son since I had more time to do that lol
<shakes808> I was in OH at my cousin's fishing on Lake Eerie
<shakes808> Camping with my boy and a buddy with his boy
<shakes808> It has been nice
<shakes808> :D
<rick_h_> very cool
<rick_h_> dad time > *
<shakes808> snap-l: No I believe I was let go on the 26th
<shakes808> rick_h_: As you know ;) My son is finally riding his bike without training wheels now
<shakes808> and we go on nice bike rides
<snap-l> Man, I can't keep time straight anymore
<shakes808> fun stuff when you can enjoy it
<rick_h_> shakes808: awesome
<shakes808> rick_h_: right now it is a melting pot of languages and they are looking to move to C#.
<shakes808> rick_h_: How is the JS guru holding up?
<shakes808> LP keeping you busy?
<snap-l> shakes808: https://ting.com/blog/byod-coming-soon-to-ting/
<shakes808> nice
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm hoping Sprint doesn't start doing evil things
<snap-l> because so far I've been rather happy
<shakes808> I was just talking with Verizon last night about plans and what not.
<shakes808> Sprint is evil
<snap-l> Not through Ting they aren't.
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l> At least I haven't seen it.
<rick_h_> verizon is evil...but damn nice network
<snap-l> And Verizon is made up of chopped up babies
<rick_h_> shakes808: I'm surviving
<shakes808> Have you had to deal with their customer service?
<snap-l> Ting's CS? Yes. They're stellar.
<shakes808> good
<snap-l> Sprint's CS? I'd rather bathe in acid and rinse down with salt.
<shakes808> :D
<krondor> snap-l:  how has data speeds been?  I'm curious what throttling the major carriers put on these piggyback providers (ting/metropcs/cricket/etc..).
<krondor> ok Ting asserts they don't get separate traffic classification; https://ting.com/blog/do-mvnos-get-second-class-cell-service/
<krondor> looks like some of the cheap providers that are owned by the larger providers do (Virgin Mobile)
<rick_h_> I don't think sprint's network is fast enough to throttle w/o just turning it off
<rick_h_> :P
<krondor> rick_h__: yeah that's my other worry.  It is tempting when you look at how much cheaper/month ting is
<krondor> coworker just asked me why our servers are running 12.04, and shouldn't we be on 14.04 like his VM at home...
<rick_h_> ummm...lmfao?
<krondor> yeah .. confused doesn't begin to describe my face.  I should have asked when he invented time travel
<rick_h_> "We're still on 12.04? Shouldn't we be up to 93.10?"
<krondor> sometimes I really wonder about this place lol
<rick_h_> you need to be like "I tried and tried to tell the IT guys we should be checking out zonky zebra...but they just won't have it. Backwards folks I tell you"
<krondor> that's genius actually by the time it's released they'll have done all the political sandbagging and such in advance.  Upgrading will be no big deal!
<rick_h_> with python 7 :P
<jrwren> anyone know apache well enough to tell me what apache does when you have mod_disk_cache and mod_mem_cache and CacheEnable disk / and CacheEnable mem /
<krondor> not I, maybe #apache ? drbacchus idles there at times and he knows way too much about apache in my experience
<jrwren> of course I have to ask first to finally find it documented.
<shakes808> HA HA. Just got back from lunch and seen the 14.04 remark. You should ask your coworker for a copy to try it out lol
<nullspace> anyone know of a command line tool to add an audio layer to an mp3 from another mp3?
<brousch> ffmpeg should be able to, but I've not done it
<snap-l> krondor: Data speeds are OK, though there's no 4G in this area
<snap-l> if you're looking for speed, Verizon is pretty much the only game in town
<snap-l> when we were in Columbus, I managed to get some 4G, and it was reasonable
<snap-l> beauty though is I can tether out of the box, without a surcharge
<krondor> snap-l: vzw doesn't surcharge for tether anymore; http://cnet.co/M6mBGh but don't worry they still manage to bleed you of your money
<rick_h_> yea
<rick_h_> but only if you're on a shared data plan if I recall
<rick_h_> and I'd lose my unlimited plan on my phone which saved my $#@$#@ when I racked up 3gb of data in 2 days during Google IO
<krondor> rick_h__: ++ that's correct, vzw always with the push to move you into the heavier data premium plans
<greg-g> and, the base rate of $70/mo is just ex. pen. sive.
<rick_h_> % bookie invite list | grep -v \@ | wc -l                           (rharding@toraken:~)
<rick_h_> 101
<rick_h_> woot! today Bookie crossed 100 signed up users
<greg-g> yay!
<rick_h_> 124 total accounts, but 23 never activated
<greg-g> 23 lamers
<rick_h_> :P
<shakes808> Congrats rick_h_
<rick_h_> thanks shakes808
<shakes808> Anyone.... Who knows scheme?
<rick_h_> I'd bet on jrwren and Blazeix as potentials
<greg-g> it's been a while, but I wrote a chess playing program in it in undergrad
<Blazeix> i knew scheme at one point...
<Blazeix> but it's been 5 or 6 years since i really used a lispy language
<greg-g> yeah.... 2012 - 2002... eek
<Blazeix> shakes808: what're you doing with scheme?
<greg-g> BAM! http://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/57937-lolz-oxford-online-dictionary-adds-internet-terms.html I should send that to my old boss at the UM Library who said I couldn't call an event a hackathon because of how people will think we're 'hackers'
<greg-g> too bad their definition for "hack" is still bad: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/hack
<snap-l> I prefer to term people who break into systems and fuck things up as "fuckers"
<snap-l> Leave the hackers to the noble-fok.
<snap-l> folk.
<greg-g> hear ye hear ye, we shall be commencing the hacking one fortnight from today.
<snap-l> Although I'm sure the person at U-M would have a problem with a fuckathon
<greg-g> snap-l: god I hope
<shakes808> Blazeix: At my new job, they use scheme for some things and going through trying to teach myself a little bit of it.
<snap-l> Would love to know who made that call
<shakes808> I found snippet of code and didn't understand it
<snap-l> shakes808: May I recommend two books: Practical Common Lisp and Land of Lisp?
<shakes808> snap-l: for scheme?
<snap-l> scheme is a mumble mumble of Lisp
<shakes808> alright
<shakes808> I might have those books as ebooks
<shakes808> I will have to check tonight when I get home
<shakes808> Thank you for the suggestions
<greg-g> dialect?
<snap-l> if not, lmk. I have a physical copy of the Land of Lisp book you could borrow
<snap-l> (and an e-book version)
<shakes808> thank you
<snap-l> greg-g: I get lost in how they both relate. I think Scheme is a dialect
<snap-l> but it'll at least point in the general direction
<Blazeix> depending on how deep you want to go, you might also check out SICP: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html
<snap-l> Yeah, that's a great book, but be prepared to sit and have tea with rabbits, mice, and a Mad Hatter.
<greg-g> loved that book
<greg-g> still have it on my shelf, I think
 * snap-l has to locate a copy
<greg-g> holy. shit.
<greg-g> I just realized that Hal Abelson wrote that book, he's on our board
<greg-g> that explains a few things
<snap-l> greg-g: ;)
<snap-l> OMC will be on http://metalinjection at 6pm ET
<snap-l> http://metalinjection.fm
<snap-l> tomorrow at 3pm ET
<jrwren> scheme is a lisp
<shakes808> snap-l: Who is OMC?
<shakes808> jrwren: Which came first the Scheme or the Lisp?
<greg-g> snap-l: what's with the "ng" in the top left corner of the MI.fm page?
<brousch> OMC is snap-l's long haired, tatooed, nipple-pierced alter-ego
<shakes808> Gotcha. That makes sense now. He is always talking to himself in his cubicle.
<shakes808> ;)
<shakes808> Or he is just singing along with Cake
<shakes808> lol
<brousch> is this greg-g? http://dvice.com/archives/2012/08/video-guy-ridin.php
<shakes808> Night all.
<Blazeix> incorrect.
<snap-l> greg-g: no idea. SOmeone probably broke something
<greg-g> I spent way too much time as a kid playing Total Annihilation, so this got me excited: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659943965/planetary-annihilation-a-next-generation-rts
<greg-g> Linux support, even :)
<krondor> greg-g: !! my favorite RTS!
<greg-g> everyone's, right?
<krondor> this looks awesome, I loved TA, did you play supreme commander?  Supreme commander 2 sucks from what I've heard.
<greg-g> have not, no
<greg-g> I'm sitting here with the confirm button looming over me to do the $20 level (get the game and poster)
<greg-g> when was the last time I played a game for more than 5 minutes, not on a plane? YEARS, practically over a DECADE
<greg-g> :(
<krondor> yeah I think I'll be donating.  Supreme Commander was the unofficial sequel to TA made by the same guy (Chris Taylor) who lost the rights to TA I think.
<greg-g> ahh, gotcha
<greg-g> wow, just watched the video, that's pretty epic
<krondor> TA was epic so it would have to be.  I once got into a match that lasted 13 hours.  We eventually called it a draw and went to bed.
<greg-g> I miss those days :(
<krondor> front lines were continuous feed of units annihilating each other, bases were shooting 30 nukes at a time and 30 patriots intercepting.  It was insanely tiring
<krondor> I do too, I miss lan parties in general
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> well, new users find new bugs
<rick_h_> unicode urls fml
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-24
<rick_h_> snap-l_: https://github.com/jdunck/python-unicodecsv
<rick_h_> then there's scitesy
<scitesy> yes I'm here.
<rick_h_> causing trouble
<rick_h_> how goes?
<scitesy> it goes well.  and you?
<rick_h_> if this script runs through I'll say good :)
<snap-l_> rick_h_: nice
<snap-l_> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<brousch> BarCampGR tonight! Who's coming?
<rick_h_> party...but not coming
<nullspace> cousin's wedding tomorrow so I'm not
<brousch> 170 registrations
<nullspace> when are we going to get a local barcamp?
<rick_h_> last day to submit talks to 1devday
<brousch> nullspace: When you get off your butt and organize it ;)
<shakes808> Good day fellas
<rick_h_> party
<jrwren> party party.
<jrwren> 5.25hrs until MLG Raleigh
<snap-l_> Is that the french version of Magic The Gathering? (Majique le Gatheringeee)
<shakes808> snap-l +1
<shakes808> lol
<snap-l_> Major League Gaming? Are you shitting me?
<snap-l_> http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/home
<snap-l_> Pardon me while I contain my excitement
<snap-l_> Nope, that's gas.
<rick_h_> woot! http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=9735795484d2e4c204da82a29&id=5f0305a119
<snap-l_> bookie (github.com)
<snap-l_> Bookie is a Python based open source version of the original bookmarking site delicious. Try it out.
<snap-l_> Very cool!
<jrwren> i'm a starcraft2 junkie
<jrwren> i can't wait to watch!
<jrwren> 5 hrs!!!
<snap-l_> I'd rather spork my nuts
<rick_h_> whoa, real time traffic is picking up
<greg-g> jrwren: did you see the Planetary Annihilation kickstarter?
<jrwren> oh, that game, I think i did
<greg-g> jrwren: did you play Total Annihilation?
<greg-g> that and MechWarrior were my two favorite games growing up
<jrwren> i did not.
<jrwren> i'm not a gamer.
<jrwren> i only play starcraft2
<greg-g> me neither anymore, but in high school I was
<greg-g> which is why I haven't paid the $20 for the (linux supported) game and poster on KS
<jrwren> trying to buy a house, realized i'm too poor, so no kickstarter for me in a while
<greg-g> wait, the "I exercise AND save money" jrwren can't afford a house?
<greg-g> that is potentially a poor joke, ignore if so
 * greg-g had the impression jrwren was doing pretty well
<rick_h_> http://ubuntuone.com/5C3EGSj1CiS4b4YLCfMiNR
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l_> ;)
<jrwren> greg-g: i want a nice house in ann arbor, i'm the only income in our home, so its doable, just not easy.
<shakes808> jrwren: I know a realtor if you need one.
<jrwren> i have got one.
<jrwren> who do you know?
<shakes808> Her name is Maria and she had her own business but then the market went to shit so she is working for ?Keller Williams?
<jrwren> ah, cool.
<brousch> jrwren: Why move to AA?
<jrwren> because its portland but smaller.
<jrwren> honestly: mostly because of the general values of its citizens.
<jrwren> i'm tired of living in a city where a majority of citizens think highly of walmart.
<snap-l> so you're looking to s/walmart/whole foods/g ? ;)
<jrwren> right
<greg-g> haha
 * greg-g is more of a fan of Trader Joe's
<greg-g> cheaper and still good quality
<greg-g> without all the energizing crytals
<greg-g> jrwren: and yeah, totally understand that. I wish I could move back to A2 with my current (non-profit, mind you) SF salary
<jrwren> i hear that. the houses we are looking at would be multimillion dollar homes in the bay area.
<jrwren> trader joes is great if you don't want produce. given we buy primarily produce, adn no meat, and little dairy, TJs is not for us.
<jrwren> I do like TJ's Peanut Butter.
<greg-g> ahh, yeah, with our current diet (which sound similar to yours) we mostly just spend about $100 at the farmers market and we're good
<greg-g> that's one thing I would miss, its true, the farmers' markets out here are awesome
<snap-l> Meijer: It's like a Farmer's Market, but not.
<shakes808> snap-l: Do you know if any C# 4.5 books are available? I see one that comes out the 29th and another that comes out Feb '13.
<brousch> jrwren is the resident C#er
<shakes808> Thank you brousch. Question redirected to you, jrwren. Any good books available for 4.5?
<snap-l> Yeah, I know nothing of C#, except it comes after C, and just before D
<snap-l> and is somethimes referred to as Db
<Blazeix> if you need to learn basic C# before then you can be perfectly fine reading a C# 4 book.
<Blazeix> net 4
<Blazeix> the newest version adds some nice asynchronous constructs
<Blazeix> but the basic way you develop it hasn't really changed
<jrwren> shakes808: there is not much new to 4.5, what are you looking for.
<jrwren> greg-g: farmers markets here are great, but its a short season, i immagine it is longer there.
<greg-g> jrwren: multiple seasons really
<shakes808> Firm I am with is going to move to be a .NET shop and I would assume that they are going to be porting to the newest frameworks.
<shakes808> But I will see what I have in my collection when I get home and poke around with some 4.0 if I have it.
<shakes808> Any good recommendations for 4.0?
<Blazeix> do you have any experience with the platform at all?
<Blazeix> I guess i'd recommend just playing around with MVC4 (it's free, along with the IDE)
<shakes808> A little bit.
<Blazeix> make sure you're using LINQ, lambdas, etc. if you follow online guides you'll be fine.
<shakes808> Gotcha
<shakes808> Thank you for the direction
<Blazeix> so is the company going from Scheme to .NET? That's an interesting transformation.
<snap-l> Sounds like a company that hired Paul Graham to consult. ;)
<PainBank> anyone use Apache Thrift yet?
<shakes808> Blazeix: Currently everything seems to be frankenstiened together with multiple languages. They are going to be refactoring everything to consolidate it
<snap-l> http://metalinjection.fm has my show running currently
<rick_h_> woot!
<snap-l> You can hear some of my promos as well
<greg-g> snap-l is popular!
<snap-l> greg-g: You might like a few of them
<greg-g> snap-l: cool, will tune in in a second, on a call
<snap-l> np
<snap-l> http://www.jwz.org/blog/2012/08/this-12-foot-tall-humpty-hump-head-needs-a-home-wonders-if-youre-ticklish/
<snap-l> programming, in a nutshell:
<snap-l> hate hate hate hate hate oh, it worked
<rick_h_> snap-l: about sums it up
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-25
<tony-smlr> SMLR is live now!  http://www.youtube.com/embed/i9NVPU7gLus
<snap-l> Good morning
<tony-smlr> snap-l: Good Morning
<tony-smlr> Hey the SMLR is live now!  http://www.youtube.com/embed/i9NVPU7gLus
<snap-l> Tried looking at it, but it didn't load for me
<tony-smlr> oh....
<tony-smlr> sound only.  our webcam is broken
<snap-l> Ah
<snap-l> Have to pop out for a bit. Lawn needs some cutting. :)
<derekv> i have this strong urge to open all the windows, despite its supposed to get really hot and allergies have been bothering me
<rick_h_> heh all closed up here, ac cranked with shades all pulled
<rick_h_> good luck with your plan
<rick_h_> we'll balance out
<rick_h_> derekv: I did a manual fix on the server that should correct the tag bug just fyi
<derekv> oh yea... sauna-esque
<derekv> i have a bag of anime on vhs
<derekv> i'm tempted to toss it out
<derekv> its kinda dirty from being in my garage, none of it is paticularly valuable i think
<derekv> anyone have a  better idea let me know
<derekv> thinking i might clean the garage out a bit
<derekv> escaflowne, those who hunt elves, ranama1/2   various episodes
<snap-l> Heh, I have those on DVD
<snap-l> You could try eBay, but I'm sitting on some sealed Star Wars VHS tapes (before the Special Edition) that I'm likely never to sell
<derekv> with all of the stuff i'm holding onto that i plan to sell on ebay
<derekv> i bet i'd get >2k
<derekv> and i doubt i'll ever do it
<snap-l> Don't be so sure
<snap-l> if you want someone else to do it, lmk. :)
<derekv> well i have several things that typically go for over 100 each
 * snap-l has no problem putting htings up on ebay
<snap-l> or even Amazon
<derekv> snap-l: actually its something I'd consider
<snap-l> Amazon you might get a better deal, unless it's collectable.
<snap-l> Anywho, off to do errands.
<snap-l> bbiab.
<derekv> i wouldn't want to sell the tapes individually
<derekv> too much work
<derekv> know anyone who plays sax?
<derekv> know anywhere giving capoeria-kungfu-parkour-breakdancing lessons?
<derekv> i wonder is 33 too old to learn  capoeria-kungfu-parkour-breakdancing?
<greg-g> python mod args? good?
<greg-g> modargs, that is
<rick_h_> greg-g: huh?
<greg-g> rick_h_: mostly, at a hackathon, and someone gut checked the use of python modargs for arg reading, she asked if we had any other preference. I thought, "I don't, but I bet #ubuntu-us-mi does"
<greg-g> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-modargs/1.4
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah, yea argparse. built into 2.7
<rick_h_> examples in bookie_api and all bookie scripts
<rick_h_> before 2.7 you can pip install it
<greg-g> rick_h_: huh, so modargs is overkill?
<rick_h_> greg-g: well modargs is just another package that isn't standard and no one else uses
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> good to know, this always happens at hackathons
<greg-g> someone has their pet thing
<rick_h_> argparse is good, built into pthon 2.7 and 3.2+
<rick_h_> might as well use what works as long as it doesn't suck (not always the case)
<greg-g> right
<greg-g> this is the project, btw https://github.com/cameronneylon/oabiblio
<rick_h_> greg-g: cool
<rick_h_> ugh, damn hot days and on a lawn maint. day
#ubuntu-us-mi 2012-08-26
<rick_h_> grrr u-verse
<rick_h_> blocking github isn't a good way to make me happy
<rick_h_> jrwren: did you get anywhere with watchdog?
<wickedpz> hi
<rick_h_> hey wickedpz
<wickedpz> How are you rick_h_?
<Blazeix> haha: https://plus.google.com/u/0/114476892281222708332/posts/246srfbqg6G
<rick_h_> wickedpz: party
<wickedpz> Checkout the work weve done to my sixties Oldsmobile Toronado: http://postimage.org/gallery/bsnh5k8/
<rick_h_> Blazeix: heh, interesting. We'll see I guess
<wickedpz> there's something slightly different with this one.
<rick_h_> had a nice pull request for bookie today woot!
<rick_h_> first fork/work out of all that trffic
<derekv> so some previous owner had stapled cardboard all over the roof of the garage
<derekv> finally got around to taking it all down
<derekv> it was a hell of a lot of cardboard
<derekv> and corrigated plastic signs from some golf event
<rick_h_> nice
<derekv> i'm not sure what he was thinking
<derekv> but whatever it was he was trying to accomplish, stapling cardboard and signage can't have been the correct solution
<derekv> but he sure did spend a long time doing it
<derekv> i'm not even done yet have to break down most of it yet
<derekv> ok now i'm bored with niel armstrong tweets
<derekv> hell i'd be tired of it if he was my dad
<rick_h_> yea, between that and the samsung stuff I want to shut twitter down for a bit
<derekv> right
<wickedpz> hows it going rick/derekv
<derekv> i need to eat
<derekv> i ate around noon
<derekv> then i was too gross/dirty to want to eat
<derekv> ... i'll stop there
<wickedpz> hmm
<derekv> maybe I shouldn't do that.
<greg-g> man, I forgot how awesome redshift is
<snap-l> Evening
<snap-l> greg-g: The electronic band?
<snap-l> rick_h_: We printed up a set of Cards Against Humanity over at Staples
<snap-l> it's not quite the same as a deck of cards, but it works
<greg-g> snap-l: no, the app that adds more red to your display as the night goes on, to help your eyes
<derekv> so , when playing cards agaist humanity
<derekv> don't read the cards you have once before you read them out loud
<derekv> if you read them over once, you can say them with a poker face and its boring
<derekv> if you say them out loud as you look at them for the first time its different
<brousch> Whew, barcampgr is done
<brousch> Back to normal now
<rick_h_> hah, how did it go brousch ?
<brousch> Really well
<brousch> 150 people Friday night
<brousch> Maybe 100 on Saturday
<brousch> A lot of good talks
<brousch> So much going on I had no time to even tweet
<snap-l> brousch: That's awesome
<snap-l> greg-g: Ah, was wondering if there was someone else who knew of redshift. :)
<brousch> I think the online session board pushed Dreamhost to the limits this year. We had at least threee times where it seized up for 5 minutes
<rick_h_> brousch: web site killer!
<brousch> Yeah, I need to do a lot of rework for next year
<brousch> Actually worry about scaling a bit
<rick_h_> moar hardware less talky talk :P
<brousch> eh?
<rick_h_> scaling via hardware vs optimizing
<brousch> I think memcache would make a big difference
<brousch> Have those darn nextyearvideos posted yet?
<rick_h_> nope...
<snap-l> Well, just had fun dislodging a rat from under our deck
<snap-l> THat was fun.
<jjesse> sounds gross
<brousch> send in the dogs
<snap-l> It wsa gross
<brousch> Terriers were made for that
<brousch> Sorry, bred for that
<rick_h_> http://blog.mitechie.com/2012/08/26/bookie-0-4-one-week-retrospective/ phew
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-19
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<brousch> Tinging. Working well so far. No network problems
<snap-l> brousch: That's awesome!
<snap-l> I would have been upset if it wasn't working.
<brousch> It even says 4G sometimes
<snap-l> brousch: That's better than we get in this side of the state. :)
<brousch> Supposedly  our Sprint LTE went live a few weeks ago
<brousch> I love the detail view on the Ting website
<snap-l> Yeah, it's really nice.
<jrwren> i get ATT's fake 4G on my iphone4S and it is a lot faster than their 3G on wifes iphone4
<snap-l> I think most projects are like an onion: peel away the layers to reveal new layers, and with the removal of each layer begin crying. :)
<snap-l> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/08/5-reasons-to-donate-to-ubuntu-edge
<brousch> Jono will be at OLF?
<snap-l> next campaign I suggest someone might hire a person with pledge-drive experience
<waf> ok, abandoning the nick 'Blazeix', which was chosen when I was ~13
<waf> now I at least match my github name
<greg-g> !!!!!!!!
<waf> i know, irc-suicide, right?
<greg-g> I did that a while ago, too. In about 2007. I became realname esque everywhere.
<waf> i'm at least initials now, and i won't get people assuming my nick is marijuana-related...
<greg-g> I was ok leaving behind the nick that was associated with my angsty teen years ;)
<greg-g> hah! I never thought of it that way!
<waf> yeah, neither did i, until the 3rd or 4th person asked me...
<greg-g> haha
<_stink_> well mine is pretty professional, so i'm keeping it.
<greg-g> _stink_++
<snap-l> Is there a place to see if a nick is already taken?
<waf> snap-l: /msg NickServ INFO <nick>
<greg-g> snap-l: /whois should help
<greg-g> ah
<greg-g> what waf said
<waf> if a nick isn't used for 10 weeks, plus a week per year it was registered, you can get a staffer to associate it with your account
<greg-g> neat
<cmaloney> There
<greg-g> huh!
<greg-g> nickicide day
<_stink_> haha
<greg-g> who's next? step right up
<jrwren> BLAZEIX!!!! I'll never forget you.
<jrwren> that blone hair was so cool, its how I remembered you.
<jrwren> now you are just a wife acceptance factor.
<waf> hahaha
<waf> or a build system, apparently
<greg-g> wife acceptance factor? huh
<_stink_> haha, wife acceptance factor
<cmaloney> Also, the past tense of waf is waft
<cmaloney> So if waf was here but left, he waft by
<jrwren> oh, real name? is waf your initials? william axel folley?
<waf> u just got waft, punk
<cmaloney> Going to keep the nick on the other networks, but that's been something I've wanted to do before
<waf> jrwren: yeah, initials, matches https://github.com/waf
<cmaloney> Unfortunately I'm not the only craigm
<cmaloney> and craigmaloney is too long to type
<greg-g> yeah, my issue is I need the - (or some other separator) due to my name
<greg-g> greg is already taken everywhere (except identi.ca ;) ), greggrossmeier is too long, gregg is a mispelling of my name, gjg is alright, but not the best, greggros was my first email address username (autogenerated with my local ISP)...
<cmaloney> and fukkina just sounds weird
<waf> haha, greggros is kinda catchy. sounds like someone with a speech-impediment saying 'legos'
<cmaloney> Or a Doctor Who villan
<cmaloney> The greggros waged war with the krotons
<cmaloney> ultimately the destroyed each other, and left this place
<greg-g> :-P
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2KZJzoz-qI  hrm... i don't think we have hte same definition of super advanced. specifically use of filter, map, and reduce is basic cs100 concepts.
<waf> i suspect it depends on the language, run-of-the-mill python code favors list comprehensions and such over functional concepts, right?
<waf> as opposed to something like C#, where you better know your linq
<jrwren> yes and list comprehensions ARE a functional concept.
<jrwren> a list comprehension is a specific case of map
<waf> and can be combined with filter
<jrwren> and if it has the if part of the list comp, then filter... right
<jrwren> exactly
<waf> but stuff like the itertools lib is what i usually reach for when going typical functional
<waf> which, given my 5-second review of that 1.5 hour video, is what he's presenting?
<jrwren> i've no idea.
<jrwren> i didn't watch it.
<jrwren> i read summary, "This tutorial covers some of the more complex features of the Python programming language including, functional tools(filter map reduce), itertools, metaclasses, decorators and more."
<jrwren> none of which is superadvanced IMO
<greg-g> well, "more complex" doesn't mean "the most complex" just "more" which, unless you have a baseline could be "more complex than learning how to do if then's"
<jrwren> hence "i don't think we have the same definition of super advanced"
<waf> none of that seems too advanced, though tbh i don't know what metaclasses are in python
<cmaloney> what would you consider super-advanced?
<jrwren> something outside of the language spec.
<jrwren> like generating python bytecode and runtime and executing it
<jrwren> maybe i'm too old school and think people should actually know the langauge they are using :)
<brousch> You ask the impossible!
<jrwren> it is a reasonably big language, but its python. Its all pretty easy.
<jrwren> decorators might be a leap
<jrwren> i take it back. i'd call metaclasses advanced.
<cmaloney> I dunno. I aspire to know everything about Python, but I'm in no way able to say I command every aspect of it
<cmaloney> It's like saying I need to know the totality of physics in order to drive a car
<brousch> cmaloney: Welcome to the channel! I hope you enjoy your stay.
<cmaloney> Thank you. Long time respirator, first-time caller.
 * cmaloney feels like trolling ubuntu-locoteams
<cmaloney> Nobody will suspect who I am
<cmaloney> muhahahaha
<brousch> I want this http://www.amazon.com/Internet-Programming-Python-Aaron-Watters/dp/1558514848/
<jrwren> cmaloney: NO ONE commands every aspect. not even guido.
<greg-g> jcastro: I may or may not have just linked to the gentoo is for ricers webpage to some coworkers
<jrwren> i love that thing.
<jcastro> hah
<jcastro> Jim Zemlin didn't know about it until OSCON
<jcastro> I was in the beer line and we were talking about it
<jcastro> and he was like "what is this page?"
<jcastro> I had to load it on my phone and show it to him
<rick_h> phew, home at last
<rick_h> hwo goes?
<jcastro> good!
<jcastro> cmaloney: New subwoofer ordered
<jcastro> my Rush experience should basically crush anyone right now.
<rick_h> ugh, emails there are many and I even kept up while I was away
<cmaloney> jcastro: Which one did you get?
<cmaloney> jcastro: I found one at the Salvation Army for $20 (YST-SW45)
<cmaloney> It's a little underpowered, but my den is small, so it works perfectly.
<cmaloney> Got the "please stop testing your music" seal of approval from JoDee
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-20
<cmaloney> Uploading the latest Open Metalcast
<rick_h> http://i.imgur.com/hINj1xf.png lol of the day
<rick_h> and morning
<brousch> nice
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> http://blogs.atlassian.com/2013/08/atlassian-kids-scratch-their-programming-itch-shipit-style/
<cmaloney> http://openmetalcast.com/2013/08/19/open-metalcast-episode-78-sportball-surprise/
<cmaloney> I really wish more blogs supported urls that if truncated will not 404
<cmaloney> case in point: the atlassian link
<rick_h> ugh, I'm going to get into trouble, but my new response to anything about women in programming is going to be "why don't you pick up the sword for equality in lawn-mowing services?" "Why are there so few women showing up at my house offering to mow my lawn...just think about it!"
<cmaloney> Actually I've seen women mowing lawns
<rick_h> well there are 5 services on this street and I've not seen one
<rick_h> so there must not be any
<cmaloney> riiiiight.
<brousch> LAwn mowing is physically taxing. Men are larger than women. Are you saying a similar situation applies in programming?
<rick_h> http://farukat.es/journal/2013/08/692-why-are-there-so-few-good-men-programmers for the ugh of the day
<cmaloney> But yeah, I'm a little tired of feeling like I'm somehow responsible for the lack of something in my interests
<brousch> I just ignore it
<jrwren> i also just ignore it. I'm tired, plus i'm a white male, i'm not allowed to talk about i.
<cmaloney> jrwren: And that's the other thing
<greg-g> rick_h: one of my current roommates is/was a gardener (she's now 7 months pregnant, so yeah)
<greg-g> just a fancy lawn mower ;)
<greg-g> wait, groklaw is shutting down because... email is insecure?
<greg-g> have they not heard of gpg?
<brousch> greg-g: I can't say it makes much sense to me either
<rick_h> greg-g: yea, that one seemed more of a "you all have killed the idealism of the internet for me" vs a "there's no way we can continue with current available tech"
<rick_h> jcastro: you ever end up getting a fitbit? Get it working ok and such?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> works awesome
<jcastro> got the scale too
<rick_h> jcastro: which one did you get?
<jcastro> the flex, the wristband one
<rick_h> jcastro: cool, thanks
<greg-g> rick_h: yeah, that's probably more the feeling
<jcastro> rick_h: supposedly the clip on ones are more accurate
<jcastro> but when I had that I lost it
<jcastro> actually, I washed it.
<rick_h> greg-g: which I understand. If something causes you to lose your passion for the thing and all. but the internet blow up is focused as if it's tech related
<jcastro> the flex is somewhat waterproof
<rick_h> jcastro: yea, I've kept putting it off reading reviews and such
<rick_h> and none of them seem to do well with biking
<rick_h> jcastro: but I think it's time to just do *something* and figure out how to supplement the info with the extra bits
<jcastro> yeah I think you'd just go back into the web UI and mark the time off as "biking"
<jcastro> and then that would do what you want
<jcastro> the nice thing I love about the flex isn't even the fitbit part
<jcastro> it has a silent alarm
<jcastro> so like, my wristband vibrates so I can wakeup without waking jill up
<rick_h> hah, that's cool.
<rick_h> I've done that with my pebble once but don't like sleeping with my watch on.
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> the only bummer about the flex is it was backordered and I had to wait like a month
<jcastro> and the other-color wristbands are backordered too
<rick_h> ah, they're in on AMZ
<jcastro> so I can't wear the ubuntu orange band. :-/
<rick_h> well the flex is, didn't check the bands
<greg-g> I have this huge "shake n' wake" thingy that is a cheap-ass no-name brand (literally, there is no brand name anywhere on it) thing that does that. worked pretty well when I was getting up at 5:30 to commute to Mountain View without waking Rowan/Carrie
<jcastro> rick_h: the scale is badass
<jcastro> you get like badges when you lose weight
<jcastro> "10 pound club" and stuff
<rick_h> heh
<greg-g> you only weight 10 pounds?
<jcastro> http://www.amazon.com/Fitbit-Flex-Wristband-Accessory-Large/dp/B00BGO0QBM/ref=sr_1_8?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1377012662&sr=1-8
<greg-g> -t
<jcastro> lol seriously
<jcastro> way to play to the market there
<rick_h> wtf is with the complete 'world fail!' lately? http://r.bmark.us/u/7b7adddc073674
 * rick_h just goes back to bed...screw this place
<brousch> The End Times are almost here
<greg-g> all your fancy hard drive encryption won't save you from... LOCUSTS!
<greg-g> btw, yesterday was my 6 month anniversary at WMF :)
<rick_h> greg-g: woot!
<greg-g> I got my WMF messenger bag :)
<brousch> Don't locusts just eat all the food? Surely we can deter them with chemicals or technology
<greg-g> but then.... THE PLAGUE!
<brousch> I've had my shots
<greg-g> and then... THE TRUMPETS OH MY GOD THE TRUMPETS HAVE YOU EVER HEARD SOMEONE SINCE LUIS ARMSTRONG PLAY THE TRUMPET WELL? OF COURSE NOT! THIS IS GOING TO SUCK!
 * greg-g may have failed any bible related tests in his life
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> i was raised in sunday school. I know lots of bible stories.
<cmaloney> Same here
<cmaloney> Let us divide some babies, yo.
<jrwren> only a king can do that
<cmaloney> OK, this is cool / messed up
<cmaloney> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etWxm4GXfpE
<cmaloney> Someone is uploading my episodes to Youtube
<jrwren> send 'em a "thanks" ?
<jrwren> wait, you are CC NC  right?
<cmaloney> I am
<cmaloney> Is there an ad on it?
<jrwren> if they run ads on the YT vid, its a violation of the NC part
<jrwren> nope, no ad
<cmaloney> I mean, I'd prefer they link back to the show page (archive.org or omc), but I find it interesting that someone is going through the trouble of even uploading these things
<rick_h> OMC on my chromecast!
<cmaloney> w000t
<jrwren> my brain is broken.
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/08/barnes-noble-not-giving-up-on-nook-tablets-after-all/
<rick_h> same here, so took a half day sick day.
<rick_h> cmaloney: heh, avoided linking that. They'll keep on kicking until they're out of money I guess.
<cmaloney> Well, I think they need to identify their core market
<cmaloney> they're not a kindle killer, they're a B&N shopper convienience finder
<rick_h> AMZ haters?
<cmaloney> And people who like ePub
<jrwren> i can't remember the name of that pythong thing
<jrwren> python environment thingy
<jrwren> virtualenv.
<jrwren> took me like 30min to remember that
<cmaloney> Though they should never have said they were killing the nook
<rick_h> "MS come and throw money at us please!"
<rick_h> jrwren: ah, ugh
<cmaloney> Yeah, that's not going to happen unless your name is Nokia
<jrwren> "that thing that lets me type activate and deactivate"
<cmaloney> And God knows why that is
<jrwren> pyenv-virtualenv is weird
<cmaloney> http://wsgiwar.com/
<rick_h> so http://benjaminkerensa.com/2013/08/14/firefox-to-remain-default-very-nice makes a lot more sense now http://benjaminkerensa.com/2013/08/20/north-america-mozilla-reps-meetup
<rick_h> geeze, http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/uk-home-office-defends-nine-hour-interrogation-of-journalists-partner/
<rick_h> I love this line "The official reason for destroying The Guardian's hard drives is also related to public safety. The thinking was that the newspaper could have been hacked, and the secret information could have been acquired by those who would do harm to the nation."
<rick_h> your computer could have been hacked, and data exposed...so we went in and destroyed it for you. You'll get a bill in the mail kthx.
<cmaloney> Pretty sure my bad days start with "There's a report we'd like you to generate"
<trevlar> that request sounds very familiar
<cmaloney> If it weren't for meaningless reports, tehre'd be no need for computer professionals in business
<jrwren> a web page is just a meaningless report.
<jrwren> wordpress automates meaningless report creation of the blog variety.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-21
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h> evening
<waf> anybody gone outside to see the nova star?
<waf> i think i found it, there's only one bright star in the area of the sky it's supposed to be in
<waf> NovaÂ Delphini is its name
<cmaloney> Magnatune got a rewrite on their site
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> cmaloney: do you know the status of CHC-land tonight?
<rick_h> hmm, jodee had said sept 1 so should be safe
<cmaloney> I think we should be OK
<cmaloney> May want to call them just to confirm
<cmaloney> There may be some cruising shit still going on, but it's officially not happening
<rick_h> yea, I think we were good this time last year
<cmaloney> http://pragprog.com/book/7web/seven-web-frameworks-in-seven-weeks
<cmaloney> It's like they want my money or something
<jrwren> cruise stuff extends to wednesday?
<cmaloney> jrwren: I believe much like the Fourth of July now extends into May, the Dream Cruise has extended into "Late August"
<cmaloney> Only saving grace is during the winter most of those cars drive like shit
<cmaloney> and they're all deathly afraid of salt
<cmaloney> Got one of my b-day presents early
<cmaloney> J got me a stand for my practice pad.
<cmaloney> w000t
<rick_h> drum dum dum, drum dum dum
<cmaloney> Yep
<cmaloney> nice thing is it's portable, and sturdy
<cmaloney> two things that drummers prixe above all
<cmaloney> prize, even
<brousch> I thought loudness was prized above all else
<cmaloney> No
<jrwren> dum dity dum dity dum dity dum
<jrwren> one thumb one thumb drumming on a drum.
<brousch> love that book
<brousch> Probably what got my son hooked on drumming
<trevlar> anybody know ltsp? I'm writing a desktop app for our thin clients to use but not sure how to deploy it
<cmaloney> I know someone who can help get you in contact with LTSP folks
<cmaloney> Jim McQuillan of MUG
<trevlar> oh cool
<cmaloney> Yeah, he started LTSP
<brousch> Isn't LTSP Headquarters in Troy?
<trevlar> did not know that
<trevlar> whoa they're like a half mile away from me right now
<cmaloney> Not sure if it's the headquarters, but yeah
<brousch> trevlar: Walk over there and ask your question
<jrwren> depending on your setup it is as easy as installing hte app on the ltsp server
<jrwren> if your "server" is ubuntu, package up a deb.
<jrwren> I know nothing about desktop menu integration though.
<jrwren> i used 'ltsp' for server clusters :)
<jrwren> so more like linux cluser server project
<jrwren> but ltsp gets me the diskless boot part.
<trevlar> ok.. I shouldn't need menu integration. it's just a tray application. as long as I can get it to boot on each user's login, that's all I need
<jrwren> i'm not sure how to do that either :)
<trevlar> that helps though. I'll create a deb to get it on there
<_stink_> trevlar: or ask in #ltsp on freenode.
<cmaloney> Whomever made it so my phone has to make a fucking click whenever it takes a photo can go fuck themselves
<cmaloney> a) I have headphones on
<cmaloney> b) I am listening to music
<cmaloney> it did the following: 1) turned on the external speaker
<greg-g> cmaloney: no kidding, I haven't figured out how to turn that off
<cmaloney> 2) set the volume to fucking loud as fuck
<cmaloney> 3) played the weedly "clikc"
<cmaloney> c) it then turned the headphones back on
<cmaloney> note: it did not reset the volume in the interim
<brousch> I think it's due to perverts snapping upskirt photos and such on the sly
<cmaloney> I think I have Front Line Assembly tattooed in my eardrums
<cmaloney> brousch: Right, because nobody has ever heard of holding your finger over the speaker
<brousch> I didn't say it made sense
<cmaloney> Even better: the phone warned me that loud volumes could damage my hearing
<greg-g> hah
<jrwren> cmaloney: your fault for buying a shitty fon running shitty os :p
<cmaloney> jrwren: I see you saying something, but nothing is making sense
<waf> stock android, or a vendor respin?
<greg-g> unable to turn it off? at least on the samsung/sprint spin
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-22
<rick_h> cmaloney: dude!
<cmaloney> Dude
<greg-g> duuuuuude
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<brousch> LAst day before vacation
<cmaloney> W00t
<cmaloney> http://i.imgur.com/cICD2e4.jpg
<brousch> wtf
<cmaloney> I think it was some WoW player doing bad things
<cmaloney> I dunno. It's on Reddit under Geek Porn
<brousch> Camping in Traverse City and then 3 days in Mackinac
<rick_h> brousch: where you camping? We're thinking of doing a camping trip by mackinac island next year
<brousch> Motel in Mackinac. I only camp under protest
<rick_h> brousch: ah, gotcha. WHen you said camping in traverse city I figured it was a camping trip
<brousch> A reasonable assumption
<brousch> We might go to Soo Locks one of the days to see the frickin big ships
<rick_h> very cool
<jrwren> which hotel?
<jrwren> well, if on island, which hotel? :)
<brousch> off island
<brousch> http://www.priceline.com/hotel/hotelOverviewGuide.do?propID=57379
<cmaloney> Yeah, staying at the Mackinac hotel is pricey
<cmaloney> We got to stay there off season for a SADD trip one time
<cmaloney> it was nice
<brousch> We got that for $270 for 3 nights
<cmaloney> Per night?
<cmaloney> Not bad.
<brousch> No. total for 3 nights
<brousch> So cheaper than the Blackwell
<jrwren> at the grand hotel? that is an amazing price.
<jrwren> I stayed at the Island House. I liked it.
<jrwren> that was 9 yrs ago
<brousch> No. $90/night for the Baymont in Mackinaw City.
<jrwren> not bad at all
<jrwren> when are you going up? what will the moon be like? The dark sky park is SWEET!!! but we had a near full moon there last week.
<jrwren> even still, I could see the spiral arm of the milky way galaxy with my bare eyes. It was super cool neato.
<brousch> We're going up Sunday to Wednesday. I hope to hit the dark sky park on Sunday
<jrwren> we got super lucky with a clear sky
<brousch> Oh lovely. 20-40% chance of rain every day
<brousch> 80% on tuesday
<rick_h> interesting http://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201307/hashtags_for_commands.html
<jrwren> http://studentaffairs.gatech.edu/plugins/content/index.php?id=3
<jrwren> i like that rick_h
<rick_h> lmao at the video!
<cmaloney> brousch: You'll have to let me know re: the dark sky park
<cmaloney> JoDee found out about it, and that may be the push she needs to get a case for her scope.
<brousch> cmaloney: It sounds like jrwren has already been there
<jrwren> yes, its great.
<jrwren> although, honestly I'll bet there are places in the UP which have less light
<brousch> But then you have to drive twice as far
<jrwren> righg
<jrwren> right
<cmaloney> http://www.herger.net/slim-plugins/detail.php?nr=1352&kategorie=slim-plugins
<cmaloney> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9058804/Screenshot%20from%202013-08-22%2012%3A56%3A21.png
<greg-g> damnit where is "sn<tab>"?!
<greg-g> I need to retrain muscle memory!
<cmaloney> Playing a "Decapitated" mix
<cmaloney> Oh, this is good
<cmaloney> Let's see how it does with something a little different
<cmaloney> Told it to do a Neurotech mix, it picked up Silent Descent, Skew, Mortis, Risha and The Armed
<cmaloney> Respectable selections
<cmaloney> I have never heard of The Echo Nest before, but apparently they use Python and Java and want people in MA
<greg-g> what is this?
<cmaloney> The first part is a plugin for the Squeezebox that does "smart mixes"
<greg-g> oh, squeezebox
<cmaloney> the back-end they use is based on The Echo Nest
<cmaloney> so I pick something like "Artists like Neurotech" and it populates a shuffle list accordingly
<cmaloney> and it's pretty complete
<cmaloney> I'm getting CC artists mixed in with more notable artists
<cmaloney> Put another way: the "The Armed" suggestion was the most "out there" of the above
<cmaloney> It's like realizing that you've had something that does something that you've wanted for a long time hidden in plain sight
<cmaloney> and all it took was a server update for me to look at the forum to see this post: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99452-Logitech-Media-Server-7-7-3-released&p=754955#post754955
<cmaloney> and then follow his plugins link to find Smart Mix
<cmaloney> etc.
<brousch> cmaloney: Are you crying?
<cmaloney> brousch: I'm relieved I don't have to sign up for Spotify
<cmaloney> Looks like the Ubuntu Edge didn't meet the funding goal. Only hit 40%
<greg-g> is today d-day?
<greg-g> oh sad
<cmaloney> It's already at "we didn't meet"...
<greg-g> I was hoping for a hail mary
<cmaloney> Yeah, that wasn't coming
<cmaloney> though I get the feeling from the reliative quiet passing of the end goal that something else may be in the works
<cmaloney> I'm not sensing the usual bravado and swagger that we usually get even in the face of defeat
<greg-g> hahaha, Mark? Swagger? NEVER
<jrwren> Sibler started day by tweeting TY.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Expected
<cmaloney> But the Ubuntu Planet has been pretty quiet
<jrwren> i don't think anyone really cares.
<cmaloney> I'm not seeing the usual damage control. :)
<jrwren> there would have to be damange
<cmaloney> Maybe that's the way to look at it
<greg-g> this is the UBUNTU COMMUNITY, there is ALWAYS damage
<cmaloney> I really need to stop eating dark fruit in my cube
<cmaloney> raisins / dried cranberries do not show up on this carpet
<jrwren> lol
<rick_h> I like that it's not "I need to stop dropping food on this floor" it's "Damn...wrong color"
<cmaloney> rick_h: I'm the guy that whips the cart because it isn't moving. ;)
<greg-g> isn't that a feature not a bug? sure, you can't find them, but they also don't stain!
<greg-g> (noticeably)
<cmaloney> It's just a given that I'm not going to stop dropping food
<cmaloney> greg-g: That would be true save for two fatal flaws
<rick_h> 'keeping cleaners employeed since the day I started...'
<cmaloney> 1) Raisins / Cranberries are sticky
<cmaloney> 2) I can't abide sticky things
<cmaloney> That's one of those texture things that drive me insane
<rick_h> for the record, high five on the use of 'abide'. We don't use that enough any more.
<cmaloney> tape: fine. tape residue: I will scrape to the bone to get rid of it
<rick_h> Whenever I listen to audio books I can always tell if it's going to be good if someone uses 'abide'.
<greg-g> this is unrelated to the floor issue, and should have been a feature killer previously. I'm confused.
<cmaloney> rick_h: The dude abides. :)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Well, I also like dried fruit
<cmaloney> trying to get more fruit into the pie-hole
<cmaloney> and usually raisins / cranberries aren't sticky out of the package (well, raisins are, but I can usually clump them enough into the palm of my hand)
<brousch> Hm. My wife's Pandora addiction will push us into Ting's XXL data plan
<cmaloney> brousch: wow
<cmaloney> You and Waldo323 should go bowling
<brousch> 8 hours/day 5 days/wk
<brousch> Why?
<cmaloney> Doesn't she have access to wifi?
<cmaloney> He used over 4GB of data on his phone
<brousch> Not at work
<jrwren> first time using git format-path and apply  :)
<jrwren> *format-patch
<brousch> But even with that usage, we'll save $50 over Verizon
<cmaloney> cool
<cmaloney> AS long as you're saving
<jrwren> yay ATT Grandfather unlimited plan
<brousch> Sprint has better service at her work than Verizon, too
<cmaloney> That's cool
<brousch> With some work, I should be able to switch her to Google Music Radio, which will use some cached music
<jrwren> any pythonists ever use http://testrun.org/tox/latest/ ?
<rick_h> jrwren: tox ftw
<rick_h> http://docs.python-guide.org/en/latest/scenarios/ci/
<jrwren> thanks
<jrwren> OMG, where was this 1 yr ago??? http://docs.python-guide.org/en/latest/
<rick_h> right there?
<rick_h> ever expanding, but been around a while
<jrwren> wow.
<jrwren> fail
<cmaloney> Apparently I wasn't looking hard enough: http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/08/22/onwards-and-upwards-2/
<jrwren> OMG I'm so sick of debian b.s.   http://blog.cmpxchg8b.com/2013/08/security-debianisms.html
<brousch> rick_h: I still don't test my crap. I have a week of vacation that I'd like to spend learning Python testing, with an emphasis on Pyramid. Are the Pyramid docs the best place to start, or something else?
<cmaloney> Hello there
<rick_h> jcastro: ok, how do I hook this fitbit up to my phone? It's not showing up under bluetooth discovery
<rick_h> and freaking gateway timeout connecting to their website
<rick_h> lovely out of the box experience. no docs at all, just a url that only moves forward after downloading software for either windows/apple.
<rick_h> and a login page that times out
<cmaloney> rick_h: You must be new here. :)
<cmaloney> rick_h: This is part of the reason I've stayed away from these monitoring devices
<rick_h> oh, now you tell me: Weâll be back soon!
<rick_h> Fitbit.com is currently undergoing a little planned maintenance. Sorry for the inconvenience.
<cmaloney> he
<cmaloney> h
<rick_h> jcastro: man, I'm not seeing any way to set this thing up without the windows/apple software?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-23
<rick_h> lol, 600 steps while I was taking a shower. You got fitbit. :/
<cmaloney> This day could not get any better
<rick_h> woot
<cmaloney> Lifetime made it so you can only get their programming via a cable provider
<cmaloney> No more fucking Dance Moms!
<cmaloney> Wooo hooo!!!!
<rick_h> how was that not the case before?
<cmaloney> It's like being told Santa Claus does birthdays too
<cmaloney> They just had it out there
<cmaloney> But apparently cable folks are worried aboutt he cable cutters
<cmaloney> and JoDee has been watching that bitch's program for a while now
<cmaloney> And frankly I'm glad to be done with it
<cmaloney> On the downside, no more Project Runway though
<cmaloney> but if I we have to sacrifice Heidi Klum to get rid of Abby Lee, that's a small price to pay
<jrwren> project runway has been bad for a long long long long time
 * rick_h wonders when it was good...
<jrwren> i never said it was good :)
<greg-g> why are we talking about project runway?
<rick_h> because cmaloney is happy it's not on his tv any more? or something
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> I'm happy that JoDee isn't watching it on her laptop anymore (Dance MOms)
<greg-g> oh, I see.
<cmaloney> Project Runway is actually not bad. They at least show a skill
<greg-g> ....
<greg-g> wait
<cmaloney> Not that it's the Citizen Kane of our generation
<greg-g> the last time I watched 5 minutes of project runway while in a hotel room in some far off place, I didn't see any skill other than "looking purty"
<greg-g> maybe I'm confused on the point of the show
<cmaloney> There's several components:
<cmaloney> 1) Design / Construction
<cmaloney> 2) Modeling
<greg-g> brb, going to go get some of that SF tech company staple: cereal.
<cmaloney> 3) Verbal abuse from judges
<greg-g> huh
<jcastro> rick_h: I got a new synapse bag
<jcastro> for the X230
<rick_h> jcastro: <3
<greg-g> oo! I got a new bag, too!
<greg-g> my 6 months at WMF bag!
<jcastro> nice!
<rick_h> jcastro: Pick a size: Size 6Z, Vertical, Black (is the cache insert I use in mine for the x230)
<rick_h> jcastro: what phone are you rocking?
 * rick_h thought you had a nexus
<rick_h> Gnex that is
<jcastro> I do
<jcastro> I have an N4 for about 2 months now
<jcastro> so I can dogfood UTouch on one
<jcastro> and have a production phone
<rick_h> jcastro: ah, gnex != n4
<rick_h> jcastro: I had massive fitbit fail yesterday.
<rick_h> now understand better, forgot you had a n4
<jcastro> oh?
<rick_h> forgot/didn't know
<rick_h> yea, only works with the phone with BT4, Gnex HAS bt4, but not enabled by samsung drivers
<rick_h> so no phone worky, had to install/setup with windows software, which required getting usb working in my IE VBox setup to run their stupid software to set it up
<jcastro> BT4 was only just now enabled on the N4 as well
<rick_h> now it'll only sync with my VM in windows with their stupid usb dongle
<jcastro> so I still have to sync with a windows box. :-/
<jcastro> it's ok it holds 7 days worth of data
<rick_h> dude! I asked how it was going and you made it seem like it sync'd with your phone and was all good.
<jcastro> so you only have to do it once a week
<jcastro> however ping cwayne, he's got libfitbit working
 * rick_h was waiting for something that didn't require a PC/windows to work. 
<jcastro> with my phone? No it's never done that, I had to wait for the android update that came a few weeks ago
<greg-g> <nelson_laugh>
<jcastro> now I just need to wait for fitbit to enable working on this new android build
<rick_h> ugh, that and it thought I did 600 steps by taking a shower
<jcastro> lol
<rick_h> heh, well I'll get a new phone at the end of the year so guess I'll get BT4 in a few months
<jcastro> ok charm school, to be continued!
<rick_h> yea, I want to be in on this. What's the url?
 * rick_h wants to load up this desktop with lxc provider power!
<jcastro> My new thinkpad gets here today!
<rick_h> woot!
<greg-g> when's mine get here? :(
<rick_h> ok, have working lxc container juju going. Time to charm up bookie now. Debugging is going to be a heck of a lot easier. Though booo no debug-log
<greg-g> rick_h: I'm getting NaN's in bookie: https://bmark.us/greg/recent
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-24
<rick_h> greg-g: looking. I see the error report.
<rick_h> greg-g: do you know what url and such you were trying to save?
<rick_h> greg-g: ping when you're around. THe page loads ok for me. I got an error when you went to save http://martinfowler.com/bliki/FeatureToggle.html, trying to see why
<rick_h> but it did save and page does load
<greg-g> rick_h: yeah, got a... something error, don't remember, the url on bmark.us was /newerror.something
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> I <3 it when I see an answer on Stack Overflow with a certain rick_h answering it. :)
<cmaloney> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4186062/sqlalchemy-order-by-descending
<rick_h> cmaloney: :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-08-25
<tony-smlr> SMLR is going Live NOW!!!  Video stream http://youtu.be/F6_qyJ_qyHM - Audio only http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<tony-smlr> SMLR is also on #smlr
<rick_h> greg-g: cmaloney would appreciate feedback on https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie/issues/151 as you guys both export.
<cmaloney> Feedbacking
<rick_h> thanks sn
<rick_h> err, cmaloney
<rick_h> years of tab-complete training!
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Nothing like wiping a Windows machine for a family member
<cmaloney> and installing a newer version of Windows.... sigh
<cmaloney> were it not that she needed TurboTax, this would be a no-brainer
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-18
<rick_h__> cmaloney: :)
 * cmaloney loves a good pen though
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> re: my home phone: nice thing is it uses Bluetooth so I can upload my contacts to it from my cell phone
<rick_h__> what is this 'home phone' thing you speak of?
<cmaloney> Har har
<cmaloney> Silly, it's the phone that telemarketers use to try to sell us shit
<rick_h__> seriously, I think that's down to a 1 in 10 kind of thing
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Yeah, trouble is our parents come from an era where one picks up the phone, yells at whomever else is on the party line, and then asks the operator to connect them.
<rick_h__> heh, how does this help?
<cmaloney> JoDee's dad especially gets very confused while using his cell phone
<cmaloney> so we have one number (The home number) for him to call
<cmaloney> Direct line, no BS.
<cmaloney> if I had my druthers I'd move to cell-phones entirely.
<cmaloney> or at least everything through Ting.
<cmaloney> But considering our stellar receiption in the past I'm leery to do that.
<cmaloney> So we pay WOW! an extra few $$ a month for a land-line
<cmaloney> (VOIP, so we're not complete luddites)
<brousch> My god, man. Next you'll tell me you write with a quill and ink well on parchment
<rick_h__> cmaloney: heh, google voice have it ring both your cells
<rick_h__> but yea, need good reception
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Yeah, but I don't trust Google Voice to connect in all cases
<cmaloney> And generally speaking whenever JoDee's dad calls it's for her.
<cmaloney> So the land-line is the "either of us, but more than likely JoDee" line
<mrgoodcat> what's a party line?
<mrgoodcat> shared telephone line?
<cmaloney> Good lord man, have you never seen I Love Lucy?
<jrwren> I wonder if telemarketers will eventually pay for peoples home phones.
<cmaloney> Just upgraded to 14.04 and already I want to shoot the "More Suggestions"
<brousch> More Suggestions?
<cmaloney> The online searching
<brousch> Eh?
<cmaloney> Fortunately I figured out how to turn it off without resorting to scripts
<brousch> Wait, is this a Unity thing?
<cmaloney> Unity.
<rick_h__> you have to use unity and not turn off the AMZ stuff
<brousch> ew
<cmaloney> Yeah, there's a switch that will turn off the searches
<cmaloney> Which is lovely when you're searching the dash for "privacy" and it shows you the history of privacy on wikipedia and album suggestions with the word privacy in them.
<cmaloney> "I see this is an emergency. Here are albums with the word "Emergency" in them.
<cmaloney> "Did you know that the world's first recorded emergency was ..."
<cmaloney> "You won't believe what these emergency workers did to save this cute kitten from a tree"
<brousch> 10 hottest emergency nurses
<cmaloney> Maybe in your searches.
<cmaloney> OK, I shouldn't laugh, but this "all staff" note is precious
<cmaloney> apparently someone is flushing hand towels in the toilets and causing them to overflow
<cmaloney> Please use the restroom facilities and paper products as intended. Thanks everyone.
<brousch> Some people have a lot of territory to wipe. TP just ain't big enough
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<cmaloney> mrgoodcat: Thine bot doth not provideth me with mine currently playing track as I requested.
<mrgoodcat> hrm
<mrgoodcat> .echo test
<mrgoodcat> seems dead
<rick_h__> killed it!
<cmaloney> Seems missing
<cmaloney> Bah, now noone will know I was listening to Devastation
<cmaloney> *sigh*
<mrgoodcat> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Scum by Napalm Death on Scum
<cmaloney> Too late now
<cmaloney> the moment is gone
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Dismantle the Dictator by Revocation on Existence Is Futile
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-19
<cmaloney> Evening
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt-RoSzsEKA
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rZ963 - Animals as Leaders, Tosin Abasi plays "Wave of Babies" on EMGtv - YouTube
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h__> party
<brousch> yes
<brousch> The boy is at LEGO camp today. Should be interesting
<rick_h__> very cool
<cmaloney> Just had a bookie moment.
<cmaloney> Have this hairy search string that I wasn't sure how to put into my recurring tasks for my GTD system.
<cmaloney> but there's a place where I can put this link without having it get borked: https://bmark.us/craig/redirect/55b559f4ac6441
<cmaloney> ++
<rick_h__> hah cool
<cmaloney> Afternoon. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-20
<rick_h__> evening
<cmaloney> howdy
<rick_h__> having fun yet?
<cmaloney> Putting together an already late episode of OMC
<cmaloney> So in a way, yeah.
<rick_h__> wheee
<rick_h__> did the student evals
<cmaloney> Ah, cool.
<rick_h__> not much to it in this one
<cmaloney> Rawk! \m/
<cmaloney> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/UbuntuConvergenceFeedback
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/H1gHhA - Desktop Convergence Plans Survey
<rick_h__> intersting
<rick_h__> interesting
<cmaloney> Yeah,
<cmaloney> Not sure I like the direction
<rick_h__> holy crap, for your "it's a small world" moment of the day https://twitter.com/chcholman/status/501906093136969729
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/eXRDhM - Twitter / chcholman: Woah, used to live on the street ...
<cmaloney> wow
<cmaloney> rick_h__: You should check out Imagekind
<cmaloney> They do good work
 * brousch cries http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25394139/saving-files-in-the-same-directory
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/bbxOT9 - python - Saving Files in the Same Directory - Stack Overflow
<rick_h__> morning and yay I get to go to CHC tonight!
<wollfger> morning
<jrwren_> cmaloney: which direction do you dislike?
<jrwren_> cmaloney: click packages?
<rick_h__> jcastro: thanks goodness you obeyed the signs and didn't jump in
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> jrwren_: I fear Mir will mess up games and the clipboard for X-based applications
<cmaloney> Stuff like SDL need to run flawlessly.
<jrwren_> cmaloney: oh, is THAT all? ;p
<rick_h__> lol
<cmaloney> I also fear having two separate package installs
<cmaloney> much like the mess of Tablet vs Desktop under Windows.
<cmaloney> and the sandboxing causing similar issues that we ran into under SELinux where shit breaks because someone didn't flip a bit
<cmaloney> That's three architectural changes that as a desktop user will "change how I use Ubuntu". ;)
<cmaloney> Note: they're not bad changes overall, but I can see the desktop side of Ubuntu getting hosed.
<jrwren_> cmaloney: hosed more than it already is? ;]
<cmaloney> About the only thing that I didn't care for under 14.04 was the online suggestions
<cmaloney> and that can be easily turned off
<cmaloney> And yes, I agree that X is a dog's breakfast and needs changing
<jrwren_> I wonder if kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu will not use Xorg.
<cmaloney> but Mir needs stringent backward compatability.
<cmaloney> and not just "well, Qt and GTK work, so we're good"
<jrwren_> I actually don't agree. IMO all the X extensions ruined X. I want my network transparency back!
<jrwren_> cmaloney: port XLib to Mir ?
<cmaloney> jrwren_: Yeah, I'm a huge fan of X network transparancy but I like my extensions. :)
<jrwren_> I'd rather an xlib layer be a last resort. Native to whatever display is the best.
<guy__> Greetings from exotic Lapeer, Michigan.  I've never used IRC before.  Excuse any breaches of etiquette.
<jrwren_> guy__: greetings!
<jrwren_> guy__: welcome from Ann Arbor.
<rick_h__> guy__: heh, lived in lapeer for many years back in the day
<jrwren_> guy__: My first use of IRC was 19 years ago, so no worries. :)
<guy__> Ann Arbor - ahh....the cradle of civilization.
<guy__> I think pot was legal there in 1943.
<cmaloney> guy__: Hello from ~Royal Oak
<rick_h__> graduated from east, and now I feel old realizing how long ago that was
<guy__> Wow, Rick........we're old neighbors...
<jrwren_> rick_h__: 20 year reunion coming up.
<rick_h__> jrwren_: hah, I couldn't remember the names of 3 people I graduated with
<guy__> Cool.....  I'm so old we hold our reunions at Sunset Hills Cemetary
<cmaloney> 20 year reuinion, How quaint. :)
<rick_h__> :P
<guy__> Hello Royal Oak.....
<guy__> Dead serious - I think I installed IRC on Windows about 15 years ago....used it once or something.
<guy__> I'm 62 going on 12........STILL tinkering.
<jrwren_> I shall now address you as pops.
<rick_h__> lol
<jrwren_> :)  j/k
<guy__> Thta's fine - I keep telling my wife it "smells like old people in here..." - then I realize it's US.
<guy__> I refuse to grow up.
<cmaloney> Heh
<guy__> I'm dry walling our house, and playing with all sorts of Linux distros - doin' okay for 62.
<guy__> And I'm cheating - I threw a spare hard drive in the PC and installed something called PinguyOS - the launch thing for this was on the desktop, so, here I am....
<jrwren_> PinguyOS eh?
<guy__> Yeah - it's got a beautiful desktop but it's kinda sluggish....
<guy__> Comes with a mountain of software out of the box......
<guy__> debian based.
<jrwren_> That was is new to me. Its interesting.
<guy__> I had never heard of the thing - watched a YouTube video and a guy was talking about it....
<guy__> I compiled web and mail servers on the thing...most of the packages from scratch.  I got it all working.... just a hobby.
<guy__> Running from PingOS (well, temporarily probably): http://www.guysjoint.com
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/mM8UgT - Guysjoint.com | Just one more idiot with a web siteâ¦..running from Ubuntu 12.04
<guy__> Gotta sand drywall - you guys solve the world's problems......
<guy__> and hurry up.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Run Straight Down by Warren Zevon on The Electric Werewolf Strikes Again
<wollfger> Is that a real album?
<cmaloney> Not sure. I have the single that I got from the radio station in college.
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> warren zevon ftw
<mrgoodcat> should make a remix of sweet home alabama called sweet home illinois and use the werewolves of london original recording for the backround music
<rick_h__> jcastro: dude that video thing is great
<rick_h__> that's so cool how that whip that up
<brousch> quick sqlalchemy question. I want to access the object this foreign key is linked to https://github.com/brousch/WaznexServer/blob/master/waznexserver/models.py#L97
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rZli9o - WaznexServer/models.py at master Â· brousch/WaznexServer Â· GitHub
<brousch> I get the id, but can't figure out how to get the object
<rick_h__> ugh, who named the column fk_grid_item?
<rick_h__> brousch: you need to build a relation to it
<brousch> I named it that probably 4 years ago
<brousch> yeah, it sucks
<rick_h__> https://github.com/bookieio/Bookie/blob/develop/bookie/models/auth.py#L275
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/At7ajw - Bookie/auth.py at develop Â· bookieio/Bookie Â· GitHub
<brousch> saying it's a foreignkey does not establish a relationship?
<rick_h__> brousch: no, it's the background data needed to create a relationship
<rick_h__> brousch: but you need more data to build/define it
<rick_h__> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_9/orm/relationships.html
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/OQX5GY - Relationship Configuration â SQLAlchemy 0.9 Documentation
<rick_h__> brousch: ^
<brousch> I was just looking there
<rick_h__> notice the child = relationship("Child")
<rick_h__> that line is how you access the child through the Parent
<rick_h__> and that uses the fact that the FK is defined to help build that
<rick_h__> brousch: so you just need to add a line
<rick_h__> grid_item = Relation(GridItem)
<rick_h__> then you can GridCell.grid_item.filename
<rick_h__> ish
<jcastro> rick_h__, what video thing?
<rick_h__> jcastro: on G+ the boat
<jcastro> oh yeah, heh
<brousch> rick_h__: u da man
<brousch> I'm working on http://talks.barcampgr.org/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/SI0WE2 - BarCampGR Session Grid
<brousch> I use it once a year, so there's always some tweaking to get it up to date and running
<rick_h__> brousch: gotcha, glad to be of help
<rick_h__> glad I still remember any python :P
<rick_h__> jcastro: yea, love you and Jill front row. You guys are front row folks
<brousch> rick_h__: :(
<jcastro> heh yeah, I mean, why go if you can't get in the front row?
<jrwren_> pywhat? ;]
<cmaloney> pythong.
<cmaloney> (no, I'mn not googling that.)
<jrwren_> its not the gtk or gl lib?
<wolfger> cmaloney: chicken
<cmaloney> Sorry, couldn't hear you over the sound of me pecking in the yard.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-21
<cmaloney> Evening
<rick_h__> party
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h__> morning
<cmaloney> Is it sad that I have four games of Star Realms going right now? :)
<brousch> Maybe. what is star realms?
<brousch> It is sad if it interferes with your timely play in Go
<cmaloney> Hah
<cmaloney> It's a card game (deck-building game)
<cmaloney> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.starrealms.starrealmsapp
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/Nb08Nw - Star Realms - Android Apps on Google Play
<cmaloney> Similar to games like Dominion / Thunderstone / Magic the Gathering
<cmaloney> though you're building your deck as you play. I vastly prefer that over Magic.
<cmaloney> There's also Ascension, which Star Realms has developer ties
<cmaloney> They're both great games, but Star Realms is more confrontational, where Ascension is more of a race to get more points
<cmaloney> Alas, Ascension needs a tablet to play
<jrwren_> for cmaloney
<jrwren_> .np evarlast
<bookiebot> evarlast's current track - Airship Pirate by Abney Park on Lost Horizons
<cmaloney> jrwren_: Nice. :)
<cmaloney> I never really got into Abney Park for whatever reason
<jrwren_> cmaloney: You are the only person I know who even knows their name.
<jrwren_> cmaloney: My wife has been reading steampunk novels and so I keep getting them in my head.
<cmaloney> I'm honored? :)
<cmaloney> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/08/monkeys-selfie-cannot-be-copyrighted-us-regulators-say/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/fvjCqj - Monkeyâs selfie cannot be copyrighted, US regulators say | Ars Technica
<cmaloney> Wow.
<cmaloney> I wonder how many "divinely inspired" works suddenly had a change of inspiration
<cmaloney> I should like Abney Park more than I do.
<rick_h__> https://twitter.com/ben_h/status/502383265261441024 makes me happy
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/MRVrdE - Ben Hoskings on Twitter: @nk Hi, just went searching for your great âWhy Arelâ post; seems to have dropped off your blog FYI. Found a cache: https://t.co/aBwk54LCO8
<cmaloney> rick_h__: W00t
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-22
<wolfger> morning
<rick_h__> morning
<wolfger> Hey rick_h__. Have you (or anybody else here not awake just yet) had any experience with Alfresco or Huddle (sharepoint alternatives)?
<rick_h__> wolfger: no, not here
<brousch> I read about Alfresco once. That is all.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> I looked at Alfresco for a project at work
<cmaloney> Not sure of the functionality of Sharepoint, but it seemed like a pretty heavy-duty document store.
<wolfger> Which seems to be primarily how we are using SharePoint...
<wolfger> but this thing is a turd. Permissions are a rat's nest, and nothing about it is user friendly at all.
<brousch> Well it's built on Java
<wolfger> I'm leaning towards Huddle on the basis of how good Huddle makes itself sound, but I was hoping to get an endorsement of something from somebody who's actually used it.
<wolfger> I'm also terrified that suggesting something else will wind up making me the admin of it for the rest of my days of employment. :-o
<jrwren_> https://www.usenix.org/conference/woot14/workshop-program/presentation/adrian
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/tNwGlg - Zippier ZMap: Internet-Wide Scanning at 10 Gbps | USENIX
<jrwren_> go blue
<brousch> wolfger: There's also Mayan EDMS, which I know nothing about except it's written in Python (and Django, I think) http://www.mayan-edms.com/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/rm0Un - Home | Mayan EDMS
<cmaloney> We had high opinions of Nuxeo as well
<cmaloney> I think there's a "free" version out there of Nuxeo. In order to customize it you will want their cloud package.
<brousch> cmaloney: Interesting defensive shield you have there
<cmaloney> brousch: Thanks. :)
<cmaloney> I'm hoping to keep it. :)
<brousch> So who's coming to BarCampGR tonight or tomorrow?
<cmaloney> Had I realized it was this weekend I might have planned better. :)
<rick_h__> kyle is coming out, he represents my team :P
<brousch> rick_h__: Oh good, I don't see him enough
<brousch> cmaloney: You had notice :P
<cmaloney> brousch:  I needed more notice. :)
<brousch> cmaloney: This next part of the game will get interesting
<cmaloney> brousch: yeah, a 13x13 board is a lot bigger than a 9x9 board
<cmaloney> gives a completely different feel to the game.
<cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
<bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Dryad (I Make My Home) by Petrychor on Dryad
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-23
<brousch> Found Kyle
<tony-smlr> SMLR Live E133 (8/23/2014) - Video:http://youtu.be/H6qylJ1kYAU  - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/OOoJnr - SMLR Live Episode 133 - YouTube
<cmaloney> *Good morning*9
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/r4DLeN - application/ogg
<cmaloney> brousch: Are there videos being recorded for BarcampGR?
<brousch> No
<brousch> Many request videos. No 0ne volunteers to record and edit them.
<cmaloney> brousch: That's a bummer. One of the talks seems quite interessting to me (The Game Theory one)
<brousch> rick_h__: Kyle gave his obligatory JuJu talk, but I did not attend it
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-08-24
<cmaloney> morning
<derekv> my fileserver  wont' post.  or even beep.  =[  there's one led on the MB, "sb", which lights up, and the network activity lights flash normally, holding in power works to shut power off
<derekv> got everything disconected, tried clearing cmos, removing all but one dimm, switching that dimm, looks bad
<derekv> going to reseat heatsink and see if I have another psu around
<derekv> OK only extra PSU i have is at a friends
<derekv> turns out there's no speaker on the mb for beeping, case had no speaker, connecting speaker from other case gave no beeps.  Have tried everything now but new PSU
<derekv> its dead jim
<brousch> cmaloney: If you'd like to see the titles of all of the talks from barcampgr 2014, http://www.reddit.com/r/BarCampGR/comments/2egvri/final_session_grids_for_fri_sat_morning_and_sat/
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/xgQqLk - Final Session Grids for Fri, Sat Morning, and Sat Afternoon at BarCampGR 2014 : BarCampGR
<brousch> cmaloney: I am embarrassingly far behind on OMC. That said, the interview with Patient Zero is brilliant.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-17
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> yo
<brousch> werdup
<rick_h_> party
<brousch> Canonical has an odd rejection response: "We regret to advise that your application has been unsuccessful."
<_stink_> the HR guy also writes APIs
<wolfger> "Please reboot and try again."
<cmaloney> That is a strange reply
<greg-g> it was written in committee, it sounds like
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-18
<cmaloney> Just had a nice little power outage here
<_stink_> all those A/C units kicking on
<greg-g> it was 100 in Petaluma today
<greg-g> 103 yesterday
<rick_h_> ugh
<rick_h_> hot sucks, bring on fall/winter
<greg-g> I kinda like it, but it does get old after a while (and makes people cranky)
<cscheib> rick_h_: fall, maybe... winter, no.
<rick_h_> booo! bring on the snow!
<rick_h_> though I'll miss fishing night once winter comes
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> rick_h_: We'll miss vicarious-fishing. ;)
<rick_h_> cmaloney: hat came mount arriving tomorrow :)
<rick_h_> camera
<cmaloney> Steady cam coming soon? :)
<rick_h_> naw, loses something of the gritty quality :P
<brousch> rick_h_: ice fishing
<cmaloney> brousch: shush
<greg-g> slush
<brousch> greg-g++
<cmaloney> heh
<greg-g> :)
<rick_h_> no ice fishing, I like fishing because i'm outside in nice weather :)
<greg-g> but beer! getting away from family! that's the entire point of fishing right?
<rick_h_> ummm no, it's sitting in a kayak on a calm body of water with egrets, swans, hawks, and some fishing coming around :)
<brousch> I thought it was to get cheap seafood
<rick_h_> though yes, without the 5yr old adds to the peaceful factor
<rick_h_> no, not cheap
<rick_h_> kayak + rods/reels + baits + pfd + ...
<cmaloney> As opposed to freezing ass off sitting in a shanty around a hole hoping you're not generating enough heat to melt the ice
<brousch> fresh?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: umm yea, not really the reasons I got fishing
<cmaloney> My godfather did ice fishing. I was out there at a young age wondering what the appeal was
<greg-g> I actually kind of like non-shanty ice fishing
<brousch> A guy at work brings a small apartment onto the ice and camps in it for a week
<greg-g> it's an excuse to get on the ice and chill
<greg-g> (no pun intended, but I"ll take it)
<rick_h_> I'd rather relax at home, with the fireplace, and power
<greg-g> oh, the home with fireplace after being on the ice is even better!
<rick_h_> :)
<greg-g> my grandparents lived on a lake in northern WI, loved it up there year round
<greg-g> wish my uncles/aunts wouldn't have sold it
<cmaloney> http://www.enricozini.org/2015/debian/standup-comedy-notes/ <- greg-g This is good stuff (slightly NSFW)
<cmaloney> greg-g: Thanks for sharing that on identi.ca
<jcastro> http://searchengineland.com/wikipedia-confirms-they-are-steadily-losing-google-traffic-228237
<jcastro> greg-g: ^^ I've been noticing that for a while now
<jcastro> it's like the wikipedia results are coming up lower and lower
<greg-g> jcastro: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108895
<greg-g> https://github.com/wikimedia-research/memo/blob/master/report.pdf
<greg-g> also, who the fuck trusts searchengineland?
<greg-g> they are the worst
<greg-g> but, yeah, stupid knowledge graph
<greg-g> I don't konw the numbers too well
<jcastro> I don't care much about searchengine land
<jcastro> I'm just saying I notice that wikipedia results are now usually half way down the page
<jcastro> instead of the usual top
<greg-g> yeah :/
<greg-g> I think?
<jcastro> or, google just scrapes the info and presents it to me
<greg-g> they do a lot more than that, but yeah :)
<greg-g> they scrap and all in their own info etc to make that "knowledge graph" thing
<jcastro> they do enough to make me not click through
<jcastro> which I suspects hurts in the long run
<greg-g> yup
<greg-g> readers -> light editors -> heavy editors
<greg-g> we're also losing active editors
<jcastro> I've never really edited
<jcastro> I am not expert enough in one thing to contribute anything, mostly I consume
<greg-g> word, most editors start out with typo/grammar fixes
<cmaloney> I've done a handful of edits
<cmaloney> my biggest deterrent to editing is stepping into some flame-war between editors
<greg-g> yup, it sucks
<jcastro> http://www.theonion.com/article/jeff-bezos-assures-amazon-employees-hr-working-100-51121
<jcastro> cmaloney: yea, it's like stepping into a bunch of linux geeks arguing about something
<jcastro> aka, I don't want to be there
<wolfger> KDE rules! Gnome drools! :-p
<cmaloney> Or worse: editing something on a page that has little noteriety
<cmaloney> for fear that the added attention will get the information that's there yanked
<jcastro> http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/08/socially-controversial-science-topics-on-wikipedia-draw-edit-wars/
<jcastro> just ran into this
<jcastro> creepy coincidence feeling
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-19
<wolf|work> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<wolf|work> -yo
<cmaloney> up down up down spin spin spin up
<rick_h_> heh yea pretty much
<wolf|work> O_o There's a "spin" on your control pad?
<cmaloney> wolf|work: I'm old-school like that.
<cmaloney> http://s49.photobucket.com/user/isucamper/media/dotcp.jpg.html
<cmaloney> http://s49.photobucket.com/user/isucamper/media/troncp.jpg.html
<brousch> There is an interesting job in Durango, CO, so I looked at the cost of living difference. This was unexpected http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/grand-rapids-mi/durango-co/50000
<brousch> Durango is 43% more expensive than Grand Rapids.
<brousch> Housing is 207% more expensive in Durango.
<cmaloney> That doesn't surprise me
<cmaloney> MI is a bargain
<cmaloney> I think the only places that have cheaper housing are West Virginia
<wolf|work> brousch: really surprised that you were surprised
<brousch> But 200%?
<wolf|work> over Grand Rapids?
<wolf|work> You can probably find places in Michigan were houses are 200% over Grand Rapids :-p
<greg-g> will durango still have a high cost of living after that toxic spill?
<cscheib> I wouldn't say Michigan as a whole is really all that cheap, like many states, we have cheap areas, and particularly expensive areas... just not silicon valley expensive
<jcastro> MI Rocks
<jcastro> if you go to like, mountain view or any of the valley places
<jcastro> it's like, millions and millions of dollars
<jcastro> for a tiny ranch
<jcastro> If I had to live in the valley there's no way I could afford a house there
<greg-g> see also: Greg moving to Petaluma, but still being priced out
<jcastro> ooh, kyle rankin lives there
<jcastro> btw, I tried to get a sprint close to there but the prices were just too much
<jcastro> so we could have had martinis again
<rick_h_> jcastro: you should drive down to chicago with us. Can ride down with jrwren and I :)
<jcastro> rick_h_: I just came from there
<rick_h_> jcastro: ah cool
<jcastro> rick_h_: is your sprint next week?
<rick_h_> jcastro: 31st
<cmaloney> Things I hate: forgetting the percent for date +%F
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-20
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> ugh morning
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's another one of those. ;)
<cscheib> rick_h_++
<cmaloney> Would love to know on what planet Unheilig can lead to The Cult
<cmaloney> Because my Unheilig mix is now playing "The Cult: She Sells Sanctuary"
<cmaloney> That that I completely mind
<brousch> On a planet where you have provided insufficient direction for your AI
<jrwren> cmaloney: this is why I don't use those silly music services.
<cscheib> She Sells Sanctuary brings up old memories of playing Gran Turismo 3 on PS2
<cmaloney> jrwren: This is using Echonest on my Squeezebox. :)
<cmaloney> so it's my own damn fault. ;)
<cmaloney> Though trying to get a decent Wendy Carlos mix is impossible.
<jrwren> cmaloney: ha!
<cmaloney> Although this is a good start
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-21
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<rick_h_> tgif!
<cmaloney> and how
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7FTjhvZ7Y see our friend Wolf as Scott Collins
<brousch> It's so nice to be back on Linux at home. I've been bouncing between Windows 10 and OSX for like 2 months
<jrwren> you monitoring the win10 network spyware?
<brousch> heh, no just trying it so I can give an opinion on it and evaluate it for work
<brousch> But it's gone now
<cmaloney> jrwren: I tried to get the IMDB to change his page over to Wolf
<brousch> Got a new Lenovo T540p and running Kubuntu
<cmaloney> https://youtu.be/4Q7FTjhvZ7Y?t=6m35s
<brousch> I love this thing so far. core i7, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD, intel graphics and wifi, mini displayport, VGA, 3 USB ports (1 usb 3), SD card slot, 15.6" 1920x1080 display
<brousch> actually 4 usb ports, and a DVD-writer
<jrwren> dvd writer?
<jrwren> desktop?
<jrwren> err, no. 15.6" display you said.  WTF?!?!  they put optical drives in laptops still?
<brousch> Yes. It is a useful and wonderful thing
<brousch> It's a portable computer that does everything I need it to in the way i want it to
<jrwren> you still use optical?
<brousch> I have a wall of CDs and DVDs
<jrwren> and you use them on your laptop?
<jrwren> i'm honestly asking becuase this use case is very foreign to me.
<brousch> I burn CDs occasionally too
<jrwren> mix cds?
<brousch> I have not ripped all of my CDs to mp3 yet
<brousch> No, more photo CDs for people who are afraid of flash media
<jrwren> where people is grandparents or something
<brousch> Yes, old people
<jrwren> got it.
<brousch> In my previous laptop I used the DVD bay for a second HD or flash drive
<brousch> Made it easy to clone drives
<brousch> This is my anti-Apple computer. It gives me all of the things apple takes away
<cmaloney> brousch: Rip to FLAC
<jrwren> short battery life and non working camera?  :)
<cmaloney> You'll thank yourself later.
<brousch> jrwren: In truth, I don't care about either. I'm almost always plugged in and never skype/video hangout
<brousch> Wait, FLAC is bad now?
<jrwren> no, flac is good.
<jrwren> he meant rip, not R.I.P.
<wolfger> FLAC was ever not bad? ;-)
 * wolfger just opposes FLAC on principle.... Between mp3 and ogg I need nothing else. Even if Ogg is pretty much dead.
<brousch> Oh, hah, yeah, I rip to FLAC
<rick_h_> hmm, this is interesting. I can't help but wonder if this is in response go google's hub http://techcrunch.com/2015/08/21/smartthings-support-is-coming-to-amazon-echo
<cmaloney> yes
<jrwren> wolfger: what principle? do you prefer shorten? :)
<cmaloney> I oppose mp3 on principle. I like CD-quality sound. :)
<jrwren> cmaloney: yeah!
<cmaloney> headroom FTW.
<cmaloney> That's why I get really annoyed with folks who say CDs are terrible for sound reproduction
<jrwren> cmaloney: although, lame v0 is nearly indistinguishable. I say nearly, becuase for most folks it IS indistinguishable. Only on nicer gear can I tell the difference.
<cmaloney> they're awesome for sound reproduction; but they reproduce precisely what is encoded on them
<jrwren> cmaloney: ignore the vinyl nuts
<cmaloney> jrwren: True. I'm just taking a principled approach to being a bigot. ;)
<rick_h_> hah, two years too late https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2015/08/21/the-future-of-developing-firefox-add-ons/ "largely compatible with the model used by Chrome and Operaâto make it easier to develop extensions across multiple browsers."
<cmaloney> rick_h_:Too late for Bookie? :)
<cmaloney> It's never too late.
<jrwren> you do NOT want to know what I'm doing sans bmark.us
<cmaloney> jrwren: Text files?
<wolfger> jrwren: the principle of "too many damned codecs"
<jrwren> cmaloney: pretty much, yes.
<brousch> I've just been dumping bookmarks into my crowded bookmarks manager in chrome :(
<brousch> It feels like tossing them in the garbage
<_stink_> you guys want accounts on my instance?
<_stink_> of bookie
<_stink_> jrwren
<greg-g> oh, a hosted bookie again?!
<jrwren> _stink_: where is it?
<greg-g> only if the domain name is cool
<cmaloney> _stink_: I'd make instances on my hosted bookie if I could get off my ass to instantiate one
<_stink_> mine is working 'well enough' if not perfect
<rick_h_> _stink_: greg-g I'll send over the bmark.us domain name :P
<rick_h_> that cert is about to expire soon
<greg-g> :)
<_stink_> i'm not sure i want that kind of pressure :P
<rick_h_> _stink_: hey, if you run it for 5yrs it'll be cmaloney's turn and we'll just rotate it :)
<_stink_> haha
<_stink_> great idea
<rick_h_> 5yr program
<greg-g> I'm a fan of that model :)
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> https://github.com/tylertreat/comcast/blob/master/README.md
<cmaloney> jcastro: hah. :)
<brousch> I applied for more canonical jobs. openstack and landscape
<brousch> heh. OpenStack Software Developer and Software Developer - Openstack
<rick_h_> brousch: which ones specifically? e.g. what reqs?
<greg-g> brousch: I haven't seen your resume or what exactly you're looking for, but https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Work_with_us#Wikimedia_Careers
<greg-g> we have 3 dev/ops related positions open
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-22
<brousch> greg-g: remote?
<greg-g> yup
 * cscheib applies for the CTO position, is now greg-g's boss
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> good luck :)
<cscheib> heh
<cscheib> no real desire to be a CTO at this point, realistically... that's when I'm old and (more) disgruntled
<cscheib> I wouldn't get it anyway
<_stink_> maybe if you really love meetings
<_stink_> i'm pretty sure that's the mark of higher management
<_stink_> more meetings the higher you go
<cscheib> pretty much all management
<cscheib> I managed a storage group for like 6 months, it was 40 hours of meetings and 30 hours of everything else, plus calls when there were outages
<_stink_> noooo thanks
<cscheib> hence why I am no longer a manager
<rick_h_> being a manager isn't all bad. You get to juggle all the things!
<jrwren> CTO at wikimedia would be really interesting.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> yay shopping
<cmaloney> ssh ftw
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-08-23
<tony-smlr> We are about to go live SMLR E157  Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmRtYDSnVNU Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<cmaloney> monrning
<rick_h_> morning and such from the park
<rick_h_> really nice morning out
<cmaloney> woo
<cmaloney> wee
<cmaloney> wii
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-22
<cmaloney> Evening
<_stink_> yo
<mrgoodcat> obscurehero: it took me a second to remember who this is
<mrgoodcat> lol
<cmaloney> brb for reboot.
<jrwren> i see outrun everywhere now. Thanks Scary_Guy
<cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_Run ?
<jrwren> /r/outrun
<jrwren> but yes, close enough
<cmaloney> Oh, Synthwave
<cmaloney> https://voyag3r.bandcamp.com/
<cmaloney> Based in MI
<jrwren> cool
<cmaloney> https://chrispaladin.bandcamp.com/
<cmaloney> Currently listening to https://chrispaladin.bandcamp.com/album/body-party
<jrwren> whoa, love that list of influences.
<cmaloney> https://mildperil.bandcamp.com/album/new-beat-situation
<jrwren> stahp! I gotta go ride my bike, i can't listen to all this sweet music! ;]
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> Have fun. It looks gorgeous out there.
<jrwren> it is amazing out.
<Scary_Guy> jrwren, it's the cyberpunk soundtrack I always wanted
<Scary_Guy> also https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporwaveaesthetics
<Scary_Guy> that sidebar is great too
<cmaloney> Evening
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-23
<_stink_> hey
<cmaloney> how is theday?
<_stink_> aging :P
<cmaloney> woo
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> mornin
<cmaloney> how goes?
<rick_h_> good, getting excited to hit the road tomorrow
<rick_h_> camping trip time!
<cmaloney> ah, cool deal!
<cmaloney> last hurrah for the season?
<rick_h_> yea, niagra falls here we come
<rick_h_> yea, before schoool starts
<cmaloney> hope you habe a fintrip!
<cmaloney> fun one too
<rick_h_> yea, will be a party
<rick_h_> you having any fun?
<cmaloney> Just getting ready for the morning
<cmaloney> not too much to report. JoDee starts her new semester today
<cmaloney> She finished the last one yesterday. :)
<cmaloney> wheeee!
<rick_h_> wheeeee
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> My dad bought a moto X Pure phone used.
<rick_h_> nice, I love mine though I'm eye'ing the new nexus releases
<rick_h_> got android 7 on my tablet yesterday so now waiting for my n6
<cmaloney> Apparently he's tired of limping along his LG phone with gingerbread.
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, he apparently is getting one from Amazon used for $260
<cmaloney> Told him to watch the battery on there as replacement involves heat guns and guitar picks. ;)
<cmaloney> My mom can't figure out why he needs it; the phone on the wall has lasted 35 years
<cmaloney> http://www.terapeak.com/worth/vtg-sears-sr-3000-series-desk-telephone-almong-colored-works/261213880171/
<cmaloney> It's the model above this one with a LCD screen
<cmaloney> no caller ID
<cmaloney> Has their entire phonebook in it, so if it ever loses memory...
<Scary_Guy> our old phone had a nice backup feature over bluetooth, then we upgraded to cordless phones that also interfaced with the cellphones
<Scary_Guy> so when the house phone rings it rings the cells too
<Scary_Guy> and vice versa
<Scary_Guy> possibly only the vice versa...  I can't actually remember the house phone ringing the cells, but I know it works the other way around
<Scary_Guy> anyway, one step closer to ditching the POTS I hope
<Scary_Guy> bbl
<jrwren> haven't had pots in 11yrs.
<jrwren> or did I and I just don't remember...?  oh yeah! I did vonage for a while. I guess that its pots.
<jrwren> err, not its not. its voip
<jrwren> yeah, so no pots in 11yrs.
<jrwren> and I felt like a late dropper 11yrs ago
<cmaloney> Yeah, we're on voip
<cmaloney> did POTS when I had DSL
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: did you see S U R V I V E is playing?
<jrwren>  Sat 05 Nov 2016    El Club    Detroit, MI, US
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-24
<Scary_Guy> nope, thanks!
<Scary_Guy> also you can hear some great stuff on http://stream.laut.fm/panorama80
<jrwren> your station?
<Scary_Guy> no, just awesome
<Scary_Guy> I consider VOIP about as useless as POTS, but yeah I meant VOIP
<Scary_Guy> WOW is a great service, but I can't use my own cable modem if I'm using their VOIP service
<Scary_Guy> the one they provide only does DOCSIS 2.0
<Scary_Guy> I should probably call them but I hate talking to people, but the slow speed is getting to me
<jrwren> that is pretty terrible.
<cmaloney> Good morning... um... dammit.
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<greg-g> g'morning :)
<_stink_> zing!
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> ARe we having fun yet?
<Scary_Guy> no, never
<Scary_Guy> only moments where life sucks less
<Scary_Guy> that said, bbl, I need to move my computer to a better spot because I actually need to burn about 20 disks, so I will need it in arms reach where I don't have to get up, ugh
<greg-g> I'm digging https://www.mixcloud.com/BLACKYOGA/ lately
<greg-g> "BLACK YO)))GA is vinyasa style yoga set to drone, noise, stoner metal, ambient, industrial, space doom, and other traditional meditation music."
<greg-g> best. tagline. ever.
<greg-g> (ok, maybe not ever, I just like it)
<greg-g> oh right, it's quitting time for ya'll now
<cmaloney> https://steveroach.bandcamp.com/album/vortex-immersion-zone-2 <- what I'm on right now
<jrwren> steve roach still puts out albums eh?
<cmaloney> Yep
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> i ahven't listened to him in 20yrs.
<cmaloney> I'm a recent follower
<jrwren> well, maybe slightly less.
<cmaloney> he's been heavy in helping out soma.fm
<jrwren> 99 or 00 ish I had a good friend really into him.
<cmaloney> I can see the allure
<cmaloney> Though I'm not a huge ambient fan
<jrwren> yeah, I never really got into it.
<jrwren> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1479338853/latitude-90-the-origin  best game evar?
<greg-g> NP https://arcademessiah.bandcamp.com/album/ii
<greg-g>  tags: experimental rock ambient doom metal instrumental metal post-metal post-rock progressive progressive metal stoner Hastings
<cmaloney> That got onto my wishlist.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-25
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> humidity sucks
<_stink_> hah
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-26
<shakes808> evening all
<shakes808> wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction.  I am trying to upload files of a new git project from my local to bitbucket.  i added the ssh-rsa key and it still isn't letting me upload.  says: "$ git push -u origin --all Permission denied (publickey). fatal: Could not read from remote repository.  Please make sure you have the correct access rights and the repository exists."
<Scary_Guy> so, saw this at the top of r/programming https://dev.to/ben/the-targetblank-vulnerability-by-example
<Scary_Guy> and just updated every link on my website that I never update or use
<Scary_Guy> but at least it's more secure if anyone stumbles across it
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<cmaloney> Man, Metallica's Kill 'em All still sounds great after all these years.
<shakes808> cmaloney: that is because that is PRE Newstand :)  Can't go wrong with Cliff :)
<cmaloney> Newstead is a decent bassist. Nothing but love
<cmaloney> Burton, Newstead and Trujillo would be part of my bassist dream team
<cmaloney> next to Claypool, Lee, and Levin
<cmaloney> And Iron Maiden's bassist, should he ever stop being Iron Maiden. ;)
<cmaloney> (name totally and inexplicably escaping me right now)
<shakes808> cmaloney: Steve Harris or Adrian Smith?!
<cmaloney> Harris
<cmaloney> Adrian Smith is a Guitarist iirc
<cmaloney> Iron Maiden: The band that needs three guitarists to offset the rhythm section. ;)
<shakes808> :D
<cmaloney> Just got an order from Steve Roach. Asked if he would sign them if he had the time / inclination to do so
<cmaloney> Got two signed albums. :)
<shakes808> how is Maiden's new cd?
<shakes808> giving it a spin now.  hope it is good.
<shakes808> :))
<cmaloney> Not sure. Last one I picked up was "Final Frontier" which was pretty good
<cmaloney> clips I heard from the latest lead me to believe it's pretty good
<cmaloney> haven't picked it up yet, though.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-08-28
<brousch> cmaloney: What sort of 3D printing talk are you looking for at MUG?
<brousch> We have a sort of 3D printing club in GR. I may get a few to visit tha D
<cmaloney> Something introductory would be awesome.
<brousch> I'll poke around for interest
<cmaloney> Cool. Thank you!
<brousch> I'd be really surprised if you didn't have several members who talk about it
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> So they use Windows or Linux for printing?
<brousch> Usually it's a built-in thing. Some of the firmware so are open source
<brousch> You make the model on the computer, export an still file, the "slice" that file into code for the specific printer, on the computer. Then you transfer the code to the printer on SD card.
<brousch> Stl file. Damn autocorrect
<cmaloney> Ah, ok
<brousch> There are 3 distinct skills involved: modeling, slicing, printer maintenance
<brousch> There is open source software available for each of those pieces
<cmaloney> Nice
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> how is the mornjng /afternoon
<jrwren> hot and lazy.
<jrwren> how about you?
<cmaloney> Just finished grocery shopping and planning on heading back out to finish the rest of the grocery shopping
<_stink_> cmaloney: aw, i won't see you there.
<cmaloney> _stink_: 'fraid not
<cmaloney> thought hte grocery aisles are mostly fixed now
<cmaloney> No having to go into the pet department for pasta or some shit
<_stink_> oh awesome
<_stink_> i did enjoy the game every week
<_stink_> and seeing all the other really exasperated shoppers
<cmaloney> Yeah, we nicknamed it "Hogwarts"
<_stink_> hahaha
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-21
<jrwren> anyone ever play with docker swarm?
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> jrwren: not meaningfully tbh
<jrwren> rick_h: it looks WAY easier to setup and run for a basement type setup than k8s
<jrwren> rick_h: sometime this week I'll setup a few nodes and let you know :)
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, it's based in basically
<rick_h> jrwren: I know at one point the goal had been to have a swarm-like solution like k8s to support as an option, but it wasn't feature comparible and there wasn't the user ask for it vs k8s
<jrwren> rick_h: do you mean canonical in that answer?
<rick_h> jrwren: yea
<jrwren> *nod* makes sense.
<jrwren> I think canonical chose wisely. k8s is blowing up. its the new open stack.
<jrwren> openstack large growth is over AFAICT. It might continue to grow at a very small amount, but not like it was.
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> yeah, seemes.k8s is the new "can't swing a dead cat withiut hitting" tech
<jrwren> yup, and for good reason. it is damned awesome.
<rick_h> cccccceefhftvjrkhfukicfnknfhifflfgvkhtnhcngk
<rick_h> doh
<cmaloney> gezundheit
<rick_h> ty :P
<cmaloney> I'm remembering why people hate Ansible: YAML and indentation sucks worse than Python
<jrwren> yaml is very nice. indentation in it and python is great.
<jrwren> yaml sucks for other reasons :p
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's great, but it's also frustrating when you think you have the indentation right and haven't done YAML in a while.
<cmaloney> jrwren: What don't you like about YAML?
<cmaloney> (other than the syntax errors are a pain to disgnose for indentation issues. ;) )
<jrwren> cmaloney: multiline strings, and implicit dictionary for any value that has a colon.
<jrwren> key: https://www.google.com   // in yaml this is not a key with a string value
<jrwren> it is a key with a dict value wiht a key of https and value //www.google.com
<jrwren> for something with goal of human readability, this is a failure.
<cmaloney> That's what quotes are for. :)
<cmaloney> you just reminded me of the parsing in PyYAML, where things got nested pretty deep in lists.
<jrwren> yes, that is what quotes are for, but it fails the goal of human readable and writable format.
<jrwren> the thing to remember about yaml is that it is just JSON in a different layout, one you get that the dict and list nesting makes complete sense.
<cmaloney> Yeah
<cmaloney> I still like it. Compared with XML it's a joy to use
<jrwren> oh, well, if that is your comparison, then yes. its great.
<cmaloney> I'm a simple man
<cmaloney> http://elm-lang.org/papers/ <- nice 4040 page
<jrwren> I think I'm going to buy my wife a Nikon D3400 for her birthday. I think I'll get the +$100 version with the 70-300mm lens in addition to the 18-55mm
<jrwren> what does rick_h think?
<jrwren> or any other camera enthusiasts.
<rick_h> jrwren: hmm, not sure. I've not compared the entry dslr in a while. I'm a bit of a mirrorless fanbio I guess
<rick_h> jrwren: no wifi :(
<jrwren> nope, but bluetooth, which to iphone is probably perfect fo rher.
<rick_h> jrwren: does it have an app to send photos over?
<rick_h> jrwren: what's she looking to do? start getting into photography, better pics of the daughter?
<jrwren> getting started.
<jrwren> outgrow iphonography
<jrwren> the BT thing is this: http://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/snapbridge-app.page
<jrwren> and she does like pulling it into lightroom on iphone, so this seems great.
<rick_h> cool
<rick_h> does it ship full photos or just reduced resolution ones?
<jrwren> great question. I should check.
<jrwren> I'd assume full these days, but you never knoew.
<rick_h> yea, some cameras I've had only do smaller versions
<jrwren> I have a shit wifi nikon that only ships smaller and I didn't know that before I bought it.
<rick_h> wifi tends to do more since it's higher bandwidth.
<jrwren> i mean, it is cheapo point and shoot, but still
<rick_h> ah, heh there goes my assuming wifi > BT there
<mrgoodcat> anybody got a pair of ANC headphones they recommend?
<mrgoodcat> looking at bose qc25/qc35 or plantronics backbeat pro 2 right now
<rick_h> mrgoodcat: I love my qc20 but they're wired and :/ if pixel doesn't have a port
<rick_h> jrwren: so looking at dpreview it's getting a negative for wanting to manual control stuff and such
<jrwren> https://www.shutterbug.com/content/nikon-d3400-dslr-review-snapbridge-wireless-connectivity-affordable-dslr  sounds pretty sweet.
<rick_h> jrwren: +1 to getting on nikon glass
<jrwren> rick_h: the camera in general or that BT conn thing?
<rick_h> jrwren: dxomark doesn't have feedback on the 70-300 so not sure how that is
<rick_h> jrwren: the d3400 camera
<jrwren> thanks. I'll go read that.
<rick_h> I'll never understand the stupid nikon model numbers. 3300, 5600, 3400...
<jrwren> its the wirecutter recommended entry level, so I'll have to compare the reasons.
<rick_h> jrwren: gotcha
<rick_h> jrwren: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d3400-review
<rick_h> jrwren: https://goo.gl/UhY8nJ for the glass
<mrgoodcat> rick_h: yea i'm kinda ambivalent about wired. for now i'm happy with my pixel 1 but it won't last forever and i'll be a little annoyed if my headphones only last 2 years because my next phone doesn't have a jack
<rick_h> mrgoodcat: yea, especially for the $$ NC headphones are
<mrgoodcat> yea. the backbeat pro 2s get good reviews for a _relatively_ affordable price though
<mrgoodcat> and wireless
<rick_h> I've been looking at the wireless versions of my qc25s, but the NC is not up to snuff
<mrgoodcat> on the 35s?
<mrgoodcat> everything i've seen says the 35s have the best NC on the market
<mrgoodcat> i've not used them yet though. a trip to best buy is in order fairly soon
<rick_h> no the 30s
<rick_h> sorry, I do earbuds since they pack a lot smaller
<mrgoodcat> ah yea. I looked at some earbuds but for wearing all day at the office i'd rather have something more comfortable
<mrgoodcat> we have a saddening combination of a training program for ~20 recent college grads, and a foosball table
<mrgoodcat> i like foosball as much as the next guy but...
<mrgoodcat> its time for some NC headphones
<rick_h> jrwren: what about d5600? maybe used?
<rick_h> jrwren: gets better reviews on dpreview it looks like and in nikon glass. Little bit more but maybe can get a used one from someone upgrading
<cmaloney> NC headphones are overrated
<cmaloney> Just get something that closes off the ear canal and you're good
<jrwren> rick_h: maybe... and now i think i should consider mirrorless too
<rick_h> Consider mirrorless and I'll say I love my Sony's and I'm happy to have moved there from Olympus.
<mrgoodcat> cmaloney: i would have thought so too before this foosball table entered my life
<mrgoodcat> i've had sony a57, a100, and a700. none of them have disappointed me
<jrwren> rick_h: kinda seems like entry level sony a5000 is a way better choice for her.
<rick_h> jrwren: 6000 or 6300 ftw
<jrwren> why?
<jrwren> i think you are probably right.
<jrwren> I mean... why buy entry level when you can go midrange for twice the price. :)
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, I'm biased as I'm a long way down the rabbit hole so my feedback, as someone that's bought a few cameras, is that the higher you can jump up the ladder the better off you'll be long time
<rick_h> long term
<cmaloney> Yeah, the classifieds are full of folks that didn't buy good enough
<cmaloney> might even see if you can find something used
<jrwren> I think reading and rick_h has me convinced of 6300
<jrwren> rick_h has finer states than me, but if I can't convince myself that lesser will do, then I think I have to go for the good stuff.
<rick_h> happy to be a bad influence if it all works out, otherwise I had nothing to do with it :P
<greg-g> team member's photos: https://tylercipriani.com/photos/solar-eclipse/
<rick_h> Nice
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-22
<Scary_Guy> Once upon a midnight dreary, while I websurfed, weak and weary,
<Scary_Guy>    Over many a strange and spurious website of 'hot chicks galore',
<Scary_Guy>    While I clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning,
<Scary_Guy>    And my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour.
<Scary_Guy>    "'Tis not possible," I muttered, "give me back my cheap hardcore!" -
<Scary_Guy> Quoth the server, "404".
<Scary_Guy> @cmaloney that link reminded me of that.  I was hoping for a random poem about being lost upon each refresh, but no such luck.  Still, maybe I should start collecting them.
<Scary_Guy> @jrwren I want a damn RED phone.  http://www.red.com/hydrogen  But obviously only if I can at least root it.  If it gets custom ROMs even better
<wolfger> Nice poem
<wolfger> Nice phone!
<mrgoodcat> idk if the red phone will ever have enough customers to have custom roms
<mrgoodcat> i could be wrong
<jrwren> Today marks 25yrs since Sammy and Vicki Weaver were murdered by US Marshals and FBI agents. Please Remember Randy Weaver and his family.
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: heh
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> jrwren: Google Doodle or it didn't happen. /s
<jrwren> cmaloney: pffff.
<Scary_Guy> jrwren, people get murdered by the federalis all the time.  If we stopped to mourn everyone it'd be a nonstop moment of silence filled with tears
<Scary_Guy> mrgoodcat I do hope that it does get the user support, but at that price I'm not expecting it at all
<jrwren> sad but true.
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpKy-ESNqS0
<rick_h> jrwren: our talk of backblaze got me to setup b2 sync from my nas to backblaze woot
<rick_h> so not I have offsite for my video files as well (don't stick those in gdrive or dropbox)
<rick_h> well, I will once I get sync'd 2TB later
<rick_h> I have to say that synology nas is one of the best things for backups I picked up.
<rick_h> years old, still getting updates
<rick_h> on 3rd set of disk drives in there after upping the space twice
<jrwren> rick_h: awesome!  cheapest object store.
<rick_h> jrwren: yea, looks like $10/mo for my 2tb atm (approx)
<greg-g> rick_h: my only complaint re my synology is when upgrading some of the apps the devs put the MIT/GPL/whatever license as a "you must click accept to upgrade" dialog. :)
<rick_h> greg-g: heh I don't use much of it other than the cloud sync and such
<greg-g> yeah, I don't either, but when I do log into the web interface and it shows available upgrades I click it :)
<rick_h> it's funny, I hesitated on getting it as it cost a chunk and doesn't do anything sans drives/etc, but looking at my rack of stuff it's one of the longest running things I've got and still getting updates is so cool
<jrwren> what if the upgrade introduced a security issue or removes a feature you like.
<rick_h> I guess if it removed a cloud sync I use for backups I'd be pissed
<rick_h> but other than showing up on the network to sync to and syncing offsite from it to things it just does the job
<jrwren> i really like their custom RAID format. very nice efficient use of disks.
<rick_h> ah, I just do mirroring (only a 2 disk unit)
<greg-g> rick_h: which unit do you have?
<rick_h> greg-g: ds212j
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-24
<cmaloney> Good morning
<notlikethesoup> morning
<rick_h> morning
<cmaloney> quick question: what would you call a bicycle gathering?
<rick_h> a group ride
<cmaloney> kk. Thanks.
<cmaloney> someone had "biker party" for a translation and that sounded off. ;)
<rick_h> Well, I mean if there's booze and dancing maybe?
<rick_h> but I assumed you meant a meet up to go riding
<cmaloney> Yeah
<greg-g> man, this x1 carbon (fifth gen) is awesome. I would do a head to head battery/spec competition with a mac air (and build quality, though you can see screws on this, it's awesome)
<rick_h> greg-g: <3
<jrwren> you get 6-8hrs per charge?
<greg-g> oh, easy, more like 9 or so
<greg-g> probably 8-9
 * greg-g hasn't measured
<jrwren> yup, that beats MBA by far.
<greg-g> my x230 got to the point of 2-3 hours (ooold battery)
<jrwren> i'm surprised you get taht with linux using anything unless you carry a car sized battery with you
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> what kernel version?
<jrwren> and whose build? you running an ubuntu kernel or a debian kernel?  jesse or other?
<greg-g> greg@x1  ~ % uname -a                              1326 08:44:00 Thu 24.08.2017
<greg-g> Linux x1 4.9.0-3-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.30-2+deb9u2 (2017-06-26) x86_64 GNU/Linux
<greg-g> that's debian stretch
<greg-g> the only problem I call out here: https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/Thinkpad/X1%20Carbon%205th%20Gen
<cmaloney> Whee, gutters cleaned
<jrwren> careful on the ladder?
<rick_h> heh
<cmaloney> That's awesome advise for when someone says they completed cleaning the gutters. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-25
<jrwren> Canonical deleted the ubuntu cloud-installer ppa?!? wow. that is... amazing.
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> jrwren: ???
<jrwren> cmaloney: its conjure up or GTFO, and wihtout a PPA, I assume it is snappy only now.
<jrwren> cmaloney: but all the instructions that used to work and said `sudo apt-add-repository ppa:cloud-installer/stable` don't seem to work.
<jrwren> Cannot add PPA: 'ppa:~cloud-installer/ubuntu/stable'.
<jrwren> The team named '~cloud-installer' has no PPA named 'ubuntu/stable'
<cmaloney> yeah, that's awesome
<jrwren> not so much. I mean... its a good thing I don't care about openstack anymore :)
<cmaloney> it would be nice if there was a forwarding address
<cmaloney> and not just a 404
<cmaloney> hey, just this instead because it rules
<jrwren> yeah, i wouldn't have noticed but apt-cacher-ng was complaining
<cmaloney> ah well
<Scary_Guy> weird.  any reason given why?
<Scary_Guy> also, morning
<cmaloney> likely the usual suspects: new way to build images (conjure), and the old way is too much to maintain
<Scary_Guy> It just seems unusual that it wouldn't be gracefully phased out or at least some notification given
<cmaloney> rick_h: how's the knee holding together?
<cmaloney> Scary_Guy: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/40705-but-the-plans-were-on-display-on-display-i-eventually
<Scary_Guy> I was actually thinking "Canonical deleted the cloud ppa. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.â
<cmaloney> nah, that quote works best for creating something
<cmaloney> like Ubuntu One
<Scary_Guy> oh, wow, don't remind me
<rick_h> cmaloney: meh...long road
<Scary_Guy> but I think it works for changing anything ever
<cmaloney> rick_h: slow progress, or slower than you'd like?
<Scary_Guy> also http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/044/247/297.png
<brousch> Interesting job posting: Open EdX Community Lead https://boards.greenhouse.io/edx/jobs/815277#.WaBiSZOGPpI
<cmaloney> That looks like an on-site job
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-26
<dzho> damnit
<dzho> that job would be perfect for a friend of mine
<dzho> but they've been bouncing around and just landed a thing at a big company and I can't in good conscience bring this to their attention, as that would be like rubbing it in
<Scary_Guy> sounds almost like r/britishproblems :p
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-08-27
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> Good Morning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> rick_h: now i'm leaning toward Olympus OM-D E-M10
<jrwren> rick_h: but didn't you say you didn't like your olympus?
<rick_h> jrwren: good camera. I had the em5 mark ii
<rick_h> jrwren: I've got some m4/3 lenses still if you want them
<jrwren> rick_h: haha, awesome. I might!
<rick_h> jrwren: it's good, but I feel I outgrew it after a while. It's just tough in low light (traveling to cities at night)
<rick_h> but I've got some prints on the walls from images I took with it
<jrwren> rick_h: ah, ok, that is good to know. I have a buddy who loves his, and thewirecutter recommends it, and it seems to have everything I think I want, so I'm about to do it.
<rick_h> all of these are with the em5 and some rented lenses: https://www.flickr.com/photos/7508761@N03/albums/72157653908747190
<rick_h> jrwren: definitely, it's a good entry level. The big thing is that when you do outgrow it you've got to get new lenses and such. That's the thing I've been doing the last year+ in my migration to sony. but I ran micro 4/3 for some 5yrs?
<rick_h> and really could do a lot with it and helped me learn a ton about photography
<jrwren> yeah, sounds perfect for what we want. Might never outgrow. Who knows?
<rick_h> totally
<jrwren> and local camera store has it same price as amazon, so I may as well support local. I htink I'll go there now.
<jrwren> err, oops, local camera store isn't open on Sunday. LOL
<rick_h> lol
<greg-g> hah, impulse buys harder :)
<cmaloney> I think the problem with Olympus cameras traditionally was that their lenses only fit Olympus bodies
<cmaloney> not sure if that's still the case or if they're all special now
<rick_h> m4/3 fits oly and panasonic bodies
<cmaloney> kk
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-20
<waldo323> good morning
<_stink_> hello
<notlikethesoup> hello
<jrwren> good morning. time for brunch
<waldo323> yum brunch
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> hello
<cmaloney> Howdy
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-08-21
<cmaloney> Y'all should be on Mastodon
<cmaloney> the end. :)
<jrwren> kk
<cmaloney> ;)
<cmaloney> https://octodon.social/invite/VnAsjoKP
<waldo323> good morning
<waldo323> craig is famous on mastodon right?
<cmaloney> Not really
<cmaloney> I just happen to have a lot of auto-follows on Octodon
<_stink_> oh don't be so modest, you social butterfly
<cmaloney> The extroverted introvert
<mrgoodcat> i made an account a while ago, but very few of the people i follow moved
<cmaloney> Try it again
<cmaloney> Follow @zigg@cybre.space
<cmaloney> and https://mastodon.social/@lmorchard
<cmaloney> Who apparently is no longer in this channel. Grumble
<mrgoodcat> is there an android client you'd recommend these days?
<cmaloney> tusky is pretty good
<cmaloney> though you can also use Chrome and turn that into a decent app
<mrgoodcat> just dling tusky for now
<cmaloney> But I tend to be more of a "please don't try to do all the things" person
<cmaloney> there's also mastalab and subway tooter that were a bit much for my tastes
<cmaloney> not sure which one it was, but configuring notifications on one of them felt like I was trying to program Lotus Notes
<cmaloney> and not in a good way
<mrgoodcat> i can't remember my instance lol
<mrgoodcat> :/
<waldo323> i think we lost a few people when we changed the settings on the channel to get rid of spammers
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> I hate it when that happens
<Scary_Guy> I'm saving up for a power supply for a computer so I can just run my own mastodon server
<Scary_Guy> I kind of want to make a server dedicated to Mastodon (the band) because I think it would be funny too, but ultimately will probably just make it Mortis City related
<cmaloney> heh
<Scary_Guy> actually you should message them about setting one up. so the can have mastodon.mastodonrocks.com
<cmaloney> I'm not sure they'd understand / appreciate it
<cmaloney> They don't seem like the sort of band that wold give two shits about running a Mastodon instance
<Scary_Guy> doesn't hurt to try though
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-19
<cmaloney> morning
<mrgoodcat> morning
<rick_h> party
<jrwren> can it still be weekend plz
<rick_h> no...back to school next week. can it be next weekend plz?
<rick_h> :P
<jrwren> isn't it 2 weeks until school starts?
<rick_h> not for us
<rick_h> 1/2 day next monday
<jrwren> i thought it was state law.
<jrwren> private school?
<rick_h> no, public oakland county school
<jrwren> i think we had this conversation last year :)
<rick_h> hah, I don't recall
<jrwren> it is a law, but distrcts can opt out.
<mrgoodcat> seems like school is starting earlier
<mrgoodcat> for a lot of districts
<cmaloney> Yeah, JoDee is back to school today
<cmaloney> but Macomb usually starts early.
<jrwren> she at MCC?
<cmaloney> She's at all the great schools
<cmaloney> 4 this semester
<cmaloney> MCC, OCC, LTU and OU
<jrwren> wow!
<jrwren> how did she make that schedule work... also... ZOMG the driving.
<cmaloney> They're not all the same day
<cmaloney> and she also has a chauffer. ;)
<mrgoodcat> fancy
<cmaloney> The uniform chafes a bit though
<rick_h> cmaloney:  oh please send a picture with the hat
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-20
<ColonelPanic001> https://imgur.com/a/2YULWX8
<ColonelPanic001> in case people weren't around last time I asked.
<mrgoodcat> ColonelPanic001: does that happen every time you open a second session?
<ColonelPanic001> it seems to be width dependant
<mrgoodcat> are you wondering how to stop the stuff on the right side from happening, stop the green, or both?
<ColonelPanic001> so if I narrow the window, that's when the extra green window list appears
<mrgoodcat> what about the green 't]' in the first window li9st?
<ColonelPanic001> Yeah, basically I'd like it to do nothing - the top image is what I'd prefer it to do
<ColonelPanic001> the first green prompt is fine
<ColonelPanic001> basically everything in the first image is how I have it configured
<mrgoodcat> its fine that just the last 2 characters are green?
<ColonelPanic001> well, there's that second prompt, and the gree "extra" window list
<jrwren> https://bitbucket.org/blog/sunsetting-mercurial-support-in-bitbucket
<jrwren> wow, now launchpad needs to sunset bazaar and the world will be complete
<greg-g> :(
<dzho> same
<jrwren> https://twitter.com/BrianGenisio/status/1163774150655336449?s=20
<jrwren> if anyone is interested in learning Go, the first meetup in ann arbor of the new a2go group is Sept 10 and we are focusing on getting started.
<greg-g> neat
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> That's awesome that it's getting some nrew life
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-08-21
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h> wheee
<cmaloney> That good, eh?
<rick_h> not really, but if you think it's so it becomes so right?
<cmaloney> Heh, I guess so
<cmaloney> I think I decided to have a good day, but I'm not sure
<rick_h> jrwren:  damn, with one single RT you manage to ruin my day. wtf...what kind of people think like that?
<cmaloney> ?
<rick_h> https://twitter.com/JayRWren/status/1164248021300850688
<cmaloney> Oh FFS
<jrwren> well sorry. luckily no one is seriously talking about selling oregon.
<jrwren> i try to call out hot-takes that aren't sarcastic. Seeing too many of them get by lately. Too many people honestly think they are goo dideas.
<jrwren> like this one too: https://twitter.com/JayRWren/status/1163523949340368896
<jrwren> ericlaw has 10k followers, which makes it even more worrisome IMO
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz0xULQIaSU
<jrwren> like yeti canned air
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-17
<jrwren> TIL: xxd does binary with -b... verify bit patterns are what you think they are: `echo 0xaa | xxd -r | xxd -b`
<jrwren> whew, 170 is a magic number.
<cmaloney> fun fun
<jrwren> dear python... i hate you. https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/2.7/Objects/fileobject.c#L1105
<jrwren> so efficient! https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/2.7/Objects/fileobject.c#L2886
<cmaloney> Is that still true in Python3?
<jrwren> probably something similar.
<jrwren> actually, that efficient comment was stupid by me. It is fine.
<jrwren> but the newline behavior with read() is still a little weird IMO
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-18
<greg-g> heh, martin fowler on the best keyboard ever: https://martinfowler.com/articles/kinesis-advantage2.html
<greg-g> (mostly for rick_h's benefit ^ )
<rick_h> nice
<rick_h> I can't get behind the foot bits, I do like my tilting foot rest though
<greg-g> yeah, I'm still doing the standing desk thing (with this chair: https://www.fully.com/chairs/hag-capisco-chair.html ) so I don't use foot pedals. I move around too much. eg right now I'm in a quasi cross-legged position
<cmaloney> That Capisco chair looks interesting
<cmaloney> Still rocking the sitting desk and the ball chair
<Scary_Guy> They need to license and make a South Park balls chair
<Scary_Guy> Personally, I wont be happy until I'm in a liquid tank with a wetware jack to the base of my skull.  They really need to get on that.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-21
<jrwren> https://lwn.net/Articles/828835/ related to our ongoing snap/flatpack/deb/rpm discutions
<jrwren> https://kernel.googlesource.com/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/jes/fsverity-utils/ wild man
<jrwren> so much good stuff
<jrwren> https://lwn.net/Articles/829061/
<jrwren> amazes me when FS can make changes like this without changing the format
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-22
<Scary_Guy> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24243521 the live demo makes a neat screensaver too
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-08-23
<Scary_Guy> https://www.ventoy.net neat
