#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-11
<tseng> ogra: http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/en/hhkeyboard/images/200B.jpg < i ordered this
<tseng> ogra: not *as* hardcore as the one you were looking at
<womble> How do I report/help with a security fix in Universe?  wiki://MOTUSecurity doesn't help, and there's no Universe-specific MLs on lists.ubuntu.com.  (The package is phpwiki, BTW)
<womble> It's vulnerable to the XMLRPC vulnerability.
<ajmitch> possibly just submit a normal security report?
<womble> ajmitch: Who to?
<koke_> hi motus!
<koke_> I have a scoop for you... :)
<\sh> scoop?
<koke_> my first whole program :9
<koke_> http://amedias.org/~koke/gnome-torrent/
<\sh> ah..i thought u meant poocs ,-) from freshmeat ,-)
<koke_> \sh: I hope the meaning of "scoop" is correct :)
<ajmitch> womble: I'd guess martin.pitt@canonical.com but I think there's a security contact address as well
<\sh> koke_: dunno..i'm not a native english speaker ;)
<womble> But does that get to "the community" that Martin referred to in the php4 USN?
<ajmitch> womble: sorry, I haven't seen the USN
<\sh> womble: if php4 is in main, pitti will do it :) if he doesn't know about it, ping him, send him letters and some beer :)
<ajmitch> and he can tell you the appropriate contact for universe stuff
<\sh> it's also pitti
<ajmitch> yep
<\sh> nobody wants to make his hands dirty for security issues....god knows why
<\sh> ,-)
<ajmitch> heh
<\sh> womble: we need a volunteer for universe security...:)
* ajmitch will bbl, lunch time
* \sh goes to bed..dating with a really hot woman...so linux is obsolete ,-)
<Seveas> will the motu still help me if I want to package stuff that needs the sun jre?
<\sh> if sun jre is included..can't it be compiled with gnu java?
<Seveas> no, it's too heavily dependent on sun
<Seveas> i've been trying to patch it
<Seveas> but to no avail :)
<uniq> gnite \sh, good luck tomorrow :)
<Seveas> and sun JRE is not included, how can that be leaglly possible?
<uniq> what is it you want to package?
<Seveas> uniq, globus
<Seveas> www.globus.org
<Seveas> grid computing stuff
<spacey> grid computing in java? :/
<Seveas> I'll have my own cluster to experiment on within a few weeks
<Seveas> yeah, the WSRF framework is java
<Seveas> too bad :(
<spacey> sounds inefficient
<uniq> you can make a package out of it. but i don't think it can be included in the universe.
<Seveas> I liked GT2 better
<|QuaD-> anyone having a problem with python2.3-imagint?
<|QuaD-> *imagint
<Seveas> uniq, I wouldn't even hope for that, I just need some packaging help :)
<|QuaD-> *imaging
<uniq> seveas: anything specific? shoot.
<Seveas> uniq, not yet, am just trying to initialize packaging of these things
<uniq> ok.
<Seveas> I only wanted to know the motu policy on packages that might not be available outside backports
<spacey> there is pretty good howto @ wiki i think
<uniq> i don't know if there is a policy saying anything about that. but all packaging questions are welcome afaik.
<spacey> that debian package making is much more complicated as for slackware still =P
<spacey> ofcourse much more features too ^_^
<uniq> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingTips
<uniq> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuPackagingGuide is pretty good too.
<uniq> gnite.
<tseng> koke rocks
<whiprush> whoa
<whiprush> koke++
<schweeb> whiprush: what about koke?
<whiprush> see planet
<whiprush> if he can get it to monitor a directory for new torrents, I can get 400mb of ram back by not using azureus. :p
<schweeb> nice
<schweeb> haha
<tseng> azureus is bloatware crap :/
* Amaranth uses a modified bittorrent 4
<tseng> btdownloadcurses > *
<Amaranth> i really need to migrate my patches to the 4.1.2 version and fix the packaging
<Amaranth> hmm
<Amaranth> hehe, my main addition to the official client was a tray icon
<|QuaD-> tseng: bittornado's btdownloadcurses > bittorrents btdownloadcurses
* seth_k is away: sleepytime
<Burgundavia> seth_k, can you turn your away message off?
<seth_k> sorry, didn't know it was on until I hit away
<Unfrgiven> Burgundavia: ping?
<Unfrgiven> Burgundavia: saw your post on the forums about esd being broken. does that have anything to do with the fact that totem is currently hanging on my machine on startup (i get no gui) and xine/mplayer crash on startup? or are these separate issues. i currently cannot watch any videos :(
<siretart> morning, folks
<Mez> evening
<siretart> Mez: hi! :)
<Mez> hey :D
<Mez> :P
<siretart> Mez: you uploaded gaim-assistant, did you?
<Mez> yes... reuploading again now ;)
<Mez> I eidnt read the docs fully before
<siretart> no need for that
<Mez> ah
<Mez> :$
<siretart> I can do that locally here, did you already start?
<Mez> I already did
<siretart> ok, then proceed
<Mez> proceed?
<siretart> I have all rejected uploads in a rejected queue
<Mez> ah fair enough
<Mez> well - I jsut uploaded
* Mez sits and waits
<Mez> whats with REVU erroring out all the time
<siretart> retry
<siretart> ARGL!
<\sh> morning siretart
<siretart> hi \sh
<Mez> siretart can i suggest a small change to your .htaccess?
<Mez> makes it show full file name rther than bits of it
<Mez>     IndexOptions FancyIndexing NameWidth=*
<siretart> I reverted to an earlier version, should be better now
<Mez> lol
<siretart> NameWitdh does what?
<Mez> yeah :D
<Mez> It makes it so insterad of showing > at the end and cutting off the filename, it shows the full filename
<siretart> ah, good idea, will mark that on my list
<HostingGeek> http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8B5RBI00.htm?campaign_id=apn_tech_down
<\sh> anybody working on the 500 packages? ,-)
<ogra_> if qcad is among them, yes....
<\sh>  apt-cache rdepends libstdc++5|less
<ogra_> nah... apt-cache rdepends libstdc++5|grep qcad
<ogra_> ;)
<\sh> hmmm.....
<\sh> I'm gettin 573 packages
<ogra_> ha, so doko lied...
<\sh> hmmm.....
<doko> \sh which architecture?
<ogra_> i386
<\sh> i386
<ogra_> or AEG lavamat :)
<\sh> was too expensive a machine with linux embedded
<ogra_> heh
<\sh> but impressiv what reactions i received yesterday night, while I was posting my diary text :)
<\sh> the whole world is writing me ;)
<ogra_> :)
<\sh> doko: should I send u my list? and u can recheck with your list?
<ogra_> is this normal for qt apps compiled in pbuilder ? Session management error: Could not open network socket
<ogra_> i get a lot of these
<\sh> yepp
<doko> no, why?
<\sh> I get it also, everytime for MOC stuff
<ogra_> grmpf... qcad needs more love then i can give it now, odd
<\sh> universe? what u need?
<ogra_> dunno, i think a int/long patch, it was just a quick test if qcad would be fine with a recompile....
<ogra_> but it seems its not...
<ogra_> i'll leave it out of the edubuntu seeds for now
<\sh> lemme check for u :)
<DanielN_atw> hello motu's :)
<DanielN_atw> sorry but i have to tell something very bad to you ;(
<Lathiat> DanielN_atw: ?
<\sh> what is bad?
<ivoks> yay! europe said NO
<ogra_> DanielN_atw, ?
<ivoks> hi all :)
<\sh> hey ivok
<\sh> s
<ivoks> hey \sh
<ivoks> http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41271000/jpg/_41271701_eu_protesters203i_ap.jpg
<ivoks> lol
<\sh> DanielN_atw: what's up?
<mort> DanielN_atw probably just found out that he liked Windows ME better than ubuntu  :-(
* \sh 's gone
<HostingGeek> ivoks: I heard is live
<HostingGeek> ivoks: and said is when it happened
<HostingGeek> in this channel
<ivoks> ?
<\sh> re
<siretart> hi folks!
<siretart> SloMoSnail: ping
<SloMoSnail> *pong*
<siretart> :)
<siretart> SloMoSnail: say, you uploaded some fixed packages from marillat to revu, right?
<SloMoSnail> yes... i think they should work as intended now
<siretart> SloMoSnail: I was thinking about about some sort of MOTUMultimeadia team
<siretart> SloMoSnail: this team would take e.g. mariallats repository as upstream and does some maintenance for keeping them in good shape in ubuntu
<siretart> SloMoSnail: would you be intereted in joining such a group?
<ivoks> :)
<SloMoSnail> yes, sure... but i think we can't take everything from marillat as some of his stuff (e.g. w32codecs) includes stuff we (and he) are not allowed to distribute
<ivoks> i bet siretart has some logging device on revu that sends him a SMS when somethings happening :)
<SloMoSnail> and for example the faad2 and faac packages by marillat are a mess imho ;) i would make a new package from scratch for these both rather than taking his
<siretart> SloMoSnail: right. So we would have to document procedures and package lists, some sort of 'seed' lists
<siretart> SloMoSnail: exactly. so the MOTUMultimedia group would be in the maintainer field then..
<ivoks> siretart: i'm interested in that, too
<siretart> ivoks: hey, that would be great! :)
<ivoks> i'm interested in everything ;)
<siretart> hehe
<ivoks> darn wifi-radar needs one more vote
<ivoks> please, vote!
<SloMoSnail> what exactly would be in that lists? all packages we can distribute?
* siretart already voted..
<ivoks> or breeze will freeze, and it will stay out...
<ivoks> \sh: ping
<siretart> SloMoSnail: I would say all multimedia related packages we can distribute and at least one member agrees to work on
<siretart> ivoks: I just asked about this topic on ubuntu-devel. I hope someone will answer soon
<ivoks> i saw it
<ivoks> i don't know too
<SloMoSnail> ok that's fine :) but there remains the question who decides what we are allowed and what not
<ivoks> imho, universe and multiverse should allways renew :)
<ivoks> that would kill needs for backports
<ivoks> and we would have live repository
<SloMoSnail> ivoks: i would support that ;)
<ivoks> we just wouldn't put new versions that aren't compatibile with last versions configs
<\sh> ivoks: pong
<ivoks> \sh: could you please review that wifi-radar?
<ivoks> \sh: it needs just one vote :)
<\sh> ivoks: yepp...
<ivoks> thank you
<ivoks> SloMoSnail: that would requiere a lot of work, you know that?
<ivoks> that's not doable while MOTU is so small group
<siretart> SloMoSnail: well, I think we have a brain and can think. and if we make a mistake, we can always get it corrected (or better, correct ourselves)
<siretart> hi lamont
<SloMoSnail> siretart: ok... then lets try to start something like that ;)
<lamont> siretart: hi
<siretart> SloMoSnail: do you have time right now to create a wiki page with templates for package lists, documentation of procedures and so on right now?
<ivoks> hi lamont
<SloMoSnail> ivoks: sure... it would be much work to keep everything up to date but how about keeping as much up to date as we can manage? and i think there are many people who are interested in helping with just that
<ivoks> keeping uptodate only important things
<ivoks> not everything
<ivoks> noone can do that, not even debian
<SloMoSnail> siretart: yes I can try it... I have much free time until sunday
<siretart> coool! :)
<ivoks> guys, most of multimedia packages are allready in ubuntu
<ivoks> we could create some meta packages that would set up whole system, or something
<ivoks> apt-get install mmulitmedia-i8600
<ivoks> that would set up alsa, drivers, everythin for dell inspiron 8600 :)
<siretart> ivoks: yes. but I was rathing thinking about forming a group taking care about packages not in debian and mainly only found in marillats repository
<siretart> like mplayer, transcode, gtranscode, and so on
<siretart> many of them will stay in multiverse
<ivoks> mplayer will get in debian
<ivoks> since ffmpeg allready is
<siretart> ivoks: that story i'm listing at since 3 years.
<ivoks> :)
<siretart> ivoks: sorry, I still don't believe that will happen soon. better to get active ourselves
<ivoks> ok, we could try
<ivoks> c u
<ivoks> bye
* siretart dinner
<Riddell> siretart: I can't get my password from revu
<Riddell> IOError: [Errno 32]  Broken pipe
<siretart> argl. just a moment, will sent it to you via mail
<siretart> Riddell: email sent
<Riddell> siretart: cool, thanks
<siretart> gotta fix this recover script soon :/
<Riddell> siretart: what do you mean by relibtoolize in datakiosk comment?
<SloMoSnail> running libtoolize -fc probably
<siretart> Riddell: err, did I say relibtoolize? damn, I meant 'autoreconf;
<siretart> Riddell: there are a lot of automake generated files in the diff.gz, maintenance in teams is easier (as the change is more obvious) if this would be done via dpatch in a patch in debian/patches
<siretart> this was what I wanted to say
<siretart> Lathiat: ping
<siretart> Lathiat: I uploaded your bzflag package
<seth_k> ay siretart, how comes the c++ transition
<siretart> seth_k: see http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-July/008650.html :)
<seth_k> thanks ;)
<bddebian> Heya seth_k, siretart
<seth_k> hi bddebian ^_^
<siretart> hi bddebian
<seth_k> I still think you need a new nick
<seth_k> :P
<uniq> hey guys.
<bddebian> I know, I know.  I was thinking about it last night :-)  How about bdubuntu? ;-P
<bddebian> Hello uniq
<seth_k> bd = initials?
<bddebian> Aye
<seth_k> shorter = better, bd sounds cool
<bddebian> Heh
<bddebian> I was thinking more along the lines of bdPermanentN00b :-)
<seth_k> :D
<seth_k> siretart, if I merge changes from upstream, but create a package that still has Ubuntu-specific changes, do I reset the ubuntu# to ubuntu1, or increment it again?
<jamessan> seth_k: that's what tab completion is for  ;)
<seth_k> haha
<seth_k> good point
<siretart> seth_k: so you want to upgrade to a new upstream version?
<seth_k> that's correct
<siretart> see http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=37 as an good example:
<seth_k> which I've done before, but never one with Ubuntu-specific changes
<siretart> use package_1.3-0ubuntu1 as new version
<siretart> never mind if it has ubuntu-specific changes, all upgrad should have a 0ubuntu1 appended
* siretart hopes not telling bullshit because of tiredness ;)
<seth_k> haha
<uniq> there is buildX too.
<siretart> uniq: which I never really understood
* seth_k neither
<uniq> if i understood correctly it's the ones we change for now, but want merg-o-matic to automatically update from debian whenever a new version is included there.
<uniq> should be used more, to make the universe manageable.
<seth_k> the package is gdesklets, Debian unstable has .35.1-1, Ubuntu has 0.34.3-0ubuntu2. The package from Debian can't just be brought in directly because there are Ubuntu-specific changes
<seth_k> so should I make it -1ubuntu1, so it's "newer" than the current debian version?
<seth_k> (sorry for all the questions, but tell me once and I won't forget)
<uniq> .35.1-1ubuntu1 sounds  ok to me.
<siretart> seth_k: that .35.1-1ubuntu1 then
<seth_k> righto, then I did it correctly :)
<uniq> or 1ubuntu0 if you want.
<siretart> I think we agreed on 1ubuntu1
<seth_k> was going to say, i don't think i've ever seen an ubuntu0
<siretart> jupp
<uniq> we have lots in kde.
<siretart> well, I don't see a technical reason against, just convention
<siretart> and well, I need sleep. gn8 folks!
<uniq> it's not a big deal anyway.
<uniq> gnite siretart.
<seth_k> night siretart
<uniq> i think i use ubuntu1 myself.
<seth_k> I always have, too
<ivoks> work faster :)
<ivoks> tomorrow is freeze :)
<seth_k> haha
<uniq> universe won't freeze :)
<ivoks> everything will freeze :)
<ivoks> now
<ivoks> :))
* bddebian freezes in place
* seth_k hands bddebian a lighter
<bddebian> heh
<seth_k> does http://sethkinast.com/ubuntu/breezy/gdesklets/ look kosher?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-12
<Burgundavia> Unfrgiven, no idea
<Lathiat> siretart: yay :)
<chrissturm> is there a howto how to package eclipse plugins for the 3.1 eclipse in breezy?
<ogra> chrissturm, talk to wasabi
<chrissturm> thx ogra
* chrissturm makes a tomboy note
<bddebian> tomboy note?
<chrissturm> i made a note in tomboy to talk to wasabi about eclipse
<bddebian> Oh, tomboy has a different connotation for me. :-)
<chrissturm> ifolder looks really nice. i hope there will be an open source ifolder server once
<bddebian> damn, I'm drowning...
<ajmitch> afternoon
<|QuaD-> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=69 -> almost released :)
<bddebian> ajmitch!!!
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes?
<bddebian> Just Hi! :-)
<ajmitch> hello
<ajmitch> |QuaD-: almost?
<|QuaD-> ajmitch: its up there, which is a start ;)
<ajmitch> yes, but needs a bit of loving on the issues listed in the comments :)
<|QuaD-> haha yea
<HiddenWolf> lol@planet.gnome.org
<siretart> morning
<HiddenWolf> morning
<siretart> Lathiat: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/b/bzflag/2.0.2.20050318ubuntu1/ :(
<siretart> Lathiat: I tried it yesterday in pbuider, where it did build. can you check whats going on?
<Lathiat> bah
<Lathiat> yeh it built in pbuilder here too
<Lathiat> will look
<Lathiat> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<Lathiat>   xlibmesa-gl-dev: Depends: x11proto-gl-dev but it is not going to be installed
<Lathiat> E: Broken packages
<Lathiat> i blame daniels ;p
<Lathiat> apt-get failed.
<siretart> slomo: just in case you have time, could you please have a look at http://www.debian-unofficial.org? I think might be interesting for MOTUMedia
<ivoks> today will be The funny day :)
<ivoks> update.microsoft.com, v6, lol :)
<\sh> houston, we have a problem
<\sh> hp nc6000 laptop hd is dieing
<\sh> read error detected, selftest negative, said: please call support hotline :(
<Lathiat> \sh: bugger.
<siretart> hi \sh
<\sh> nice..tomorrow morning my new harddrive will be delivered
<siretart> sounds great :)
<\sh> wow...and the first time I got a real reply on a bug filed at debian...they're starting with the cxx transition ;)
<\sh> but it means, I have to reinstall everything :(
<ogra> \sh, make a backup :)
<\sh> ogra: home is backuped alread :)
<\sh> i made it this morning :)
<\sh> *rotfl*
<\sh> "Customer can't rename INBOX in Posteingang"
<\sh> fck...explosions in london *jesus* not again all this crap
<ogra> yep :((
<ogra> i'm glad i'm back again
<JanC> http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=London+Explosions
<\sh> jane and mark are gone from london as well?
<\sh> and all the other people from us?
<ogra> \sh, everybody is ok....
<\sh> sorry, to ask, but the last time (9/11) when we heard about it, I was just involved with some guys from C&W, and they were very near the places where all this was happening...
<\sh> ok...lunch time
<\sh> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659093.stm <- terror attack
<siretart> krass
<mitsuhiko> siretart: not krass. bad
<siretart> mitsuhiko: really really bad. :(
<\sh> actually it's the best time for that crap...CIA made a good job again
<bddebian> Morning
<uniq> hi.
<uniq> this is the morning when london was blown up.
<bddebian> Yes :-(
<mitsuhiko> someone from London here?
<\sh> well, from my ex, her sister and her niece and husband + baby living there. The husband is working in the banking area of london.
<\sh> I'm really concerned...I just talked to her, and she didn't watch any tv so she didn't know about it
<\sh> now she's going crazy and trying to call anybody in london
<uniq> that's what everybody does, so the cellphone network is probably jammed. had a user in another channel trying to call someone earlier..
<uniq> i'm actaully starting to like konsole. beeing a hardcore aterm user for a few years.. these tabs are space saving.
<mitsuhiko> uniq: but konsole eats memory
<uniq> haven't noticed anything yet, but you're right.. it uses alot.
<uniq> well.. i'll have to go out do some outdoor things.. the sun is shining and the temperature is ~25C.
<uniq> later.
<mitsuhiko> uniq: 14C and rain ;(
<mitsuhiko> and i'm lying with 38C fever and flu in my bed, the notebook on my knees
<uniq> sounds bad. :|
<mitsuhiko> \sh: good blog entry. full ack
<\sh> mitsuhiko: thx
<siretart> hey. sistpoty did his first debian package and uploaded it to revu! :)
<ogra> great :)
<bddebian> tritium!!
<tritium> hey there bddebian :)
<bddebian> tritium: Did you ever get a hold of the guy to package gourmet?
<tritium> bddebian, no, Willis never responded to me
<bddebian> tritium: I started to try
<tritium> bddebian, how's it going?
<bddebian> tritium: It isn't :-(
<tritium> bddebian, oh...I'll see if I can help a bit
<slomo> siretart: almost everything multimedia related in debian-unofficial is already in ubuntu ;) only exception seems to be libdvdcss
<mitsuhiko> css will never get into the ubuntu repositories
<bddebian> WOW, hanging out in #ubuntu shows me how much I HAVE learned and how much I still don't know...
<bddebian> :-(
<bddebian> Hmm, did I scare everyone away again?? :-)
<siretart> slomo: great. I wonder why he does redistribute libdvdcss, and what its legal status is
<siretart> slomo: I think that we should anyway have at his repository, I read that he plans to import more and more stuff, like mplayer e.g.
<slomo> siretart: marillat's repository and ubuntu-backports-extras also include libdvdcss ;) but about the legal status... no idea
<siretart> bddebian: do you happen to be a member of ubuntu backports?
<siretart> and happen to know about the legal status of libdvdcss?
<bddebian> siretart: No, should I be? :-)
<siretart> bddebian: I lost the overview ;) - I know that Mez and jdong is..
<slomo> siretart: I'm a backports member ;) i think regarding libdvdcss you should ask jdong
<bddebian> siretart: I'm just the #ubuntu-motu jester according to ogra ;-)
<siretart> slomo: ah, I didn't know. good to know :)
<siretart> ;)
<slomo> afaik libdvdcss only breaks the dmca and maybe also some german law (don't know any other)... circumvention of copy protection
<tseng> well the US is a pretty big market.
<tseng> "oh its only illegal in the US, ship it!"
<tseng> besides that backports are hosted in the US
<tseng> marillat is not
<slomo> tseng: haven't said that ;) imho such things should stay away from the official ubuntu packages
<siretart> hmm. a case for non-US ;)
<tseng> siretart: eh, its non-us nonfree
<tseng> restricted
<tseng> etc
<siretart> how about 'software-not-for-us-citizen' ;)
<tseng> i use it
<tseng> but i wouldnt dream of hosting it
<siretart> ok, lets get back serious. I think I understand the problem..
<slomo> siretart: it is afaik also illegal in germany since the middle of 2004 ;)
<siretart> ic
<tseng> understand it all you want, backports cant host it, and they certainly cant import it
<tseng> to an official tree
<slomo> is there some simple way to get the reverse dependencies of some package (i.e. every package which depends on it)?
<tritium> apt-cache rdepends <packagename>
<slomo> thanks
<siretart> slomo: for builddependencies however, you need to use grep-dctrl
<siretart> yeah, kio-locate got accepted and build cleanly on all arches.
<siretart> will nuke it from revu
<tseng> siretart: archive it?
<siretart> tseng: I think we should define workflow and states of packages/uploads.. Burgundavia already requested the possibility to upcheck and downcheck uploads..
<tseng> yes
<tseng> we already specced the workflow
<tseng> New
<tseng> Needs Work
<tseng> Ready for Upload
<tseng> Archived
<tseng> if someone uploads a new one for needs work
<tseng> it goes back to New
<tseng> the rest are obvious
<tseng> 3 upchecks on a New package -> Ready for Upload
<tseng> the archive gives us a fast view of a contributor when he goes to TB
<bddebian> Would anyone mind looking at this lintian error for me? http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/434
<jamessan|work> that's a dpkg-source error
<bddebian> jamessan|work: How do I fix it?
* bddebian feels no love
<ivoks> :)
<\sh> ok..no compiling for today anymore
<\sh> i need to w8 for the new hd
<comadreja> howdy
<Lathiat> \sh: joy
<comadreja> I'm willing to help, do I have to assign myself some task or could somebody tell me what to do ?
<\sh> check malone, and try to fix some bugs :)
<comadreja> thanks !
<ogra> \sh, or the rdepends of libstc5++ ?
<ogra> libstc++5
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> but let me do it tomorrow
<\sh> i will poke the buildds ;)
<ogra> \sh, its a good task for newcomers
<\sh> but I want to know first, from where the diff between 500 and 570 comes
<ogra> sure
<ivoks> funiest URL ever
<ivoks> http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2005/04/11/ubuntu
<ivoks> one osx freek, after reading this text, said "this guy should get nobel prize for literature"
<tseng> ivoks: i dont think thats very funny
<tseng> ivoks: besides that mpt is on our team
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> that's why it's funny
<Burgundavia> the man makes some good points
<ivoks> all points are good
<Burgundavia> however, most of his points are non-trivial to implement
<ivoks> we couldn't have better man in our team
<ivoks> he's great
<ivoks> that same osx freak said, after reading comments on osx ui, that mpt is a God :)
<ivoks> the only person in the world that saw flaws in osx wich aren't fixed for years...
<ivoks> it's great to have mpt in our team and i just love his sense for humor
<tseng> eh? osx drives me nuts
<ivoks> me too
<ivoks> i hate that os
<Burgundavia> idvd is an unable pile of crap
<Burgundavia> totem has a much nicer interface
<tseng> the launchers are worthless
<ivoks> just read his comments on osx
<ivoks> he said he couldn't find soo many flaws in os9 in 3 years, as on osx in 5 days :)
<ivoks> and that's true
<ivoks> os9 has nice GUI
<ivoks> very much like gnome - clean
<ivoks> did mpt work on hoary?
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> he works on launchpad
<ivoks> only on launchpad?
<Burgundavia> yes
<ivoks> nice
<ivoks> i hope he would work on ubuntu too
<ivoks> we could use his talent
* Burgundavia just noticed the BBC has one of those little icons in FF now
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> favico?
<Burgundavia> ya
<ivoks> yes... nice
<ivoks> but news aren't good :(
<Burgundavia> no
<ivoks> redesign of bbc.co.uk
<ivoks> did anyone else notice problems with fonts on breezy's firefox?
<Burgundavia> redesign?
<Burgundavia> there was someone on the forums mentioning it
<ivoks> yes, bbc didn't look like this a month ago
<Burgundavia> yes it idi
<Burgundavia> did
<ivoks> hm...
<ivoks> well, i don't read so much bbc
<ivoks> censorship :(
<Burgundavia> the BBC offers the best news in the world
<ivoks> yes, they are biggest network
<ivoks> but best? heh... not so sure
<ivoks> there is no best news
<Burgundavia> true
<ivoks> there is only news
<Lathiat> well, there is best news
<Burgundavia> they are the probably the most tech savvy of any of the large media outlets
<Lathiat> but best is subjective and personal
<Burgundavia> and quite FLOSS friendly
<Lathiat> i notice they have rss feeds
<Lathiat> thats just totally cool
<ivoks> i didn't :)
<Burgundavia> because, as they put "They are in the content business", not the forcing people to a particular platform business
<Lathiat> be nice if they streamed in ogg theora tho :)
<ivoks> ah...
<ivoks> news.bbc.co.uk is same
<ivoks> i was on bbc.co.uk
<JanC> Lathiat : they have streamed ogg vorbis radio in the past (maybe still do?)
<Lathiat> JanC: nice
<Burgundavia> they are developing their own oss codec, dirac
<Burgundavia> for streaming video
<JanC> also, one of their developers had a talk on europython IIRC
<Lathiat> why not use theora?
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Lathiat> at least their making an open codec
<JanC> Lathiat : dirac is a broadband codec IIRC
<Lathiat> i'll go with that
<Lathiat> JanC: theora is more suited to lower bandwidth?
<Lathiat> i was going to say, i'd like to hear why their making their own rather than going with something existing
<Lathiat> if its to optimize for broadband, and its going to be open, then rad
<Lathiat> i love them
<JanC> http://dirac.sourceforge.net/overview.html
<JanC> they talk about high definition video
<JanC> seems that dirac is wavelet-based, like ogg tarkin
<plugwash> there aren't really many existing free video codecs
<plugwash> i guess there is ogg theora but thats still quite new itself
<JanC> it's not really new, as it's based on vp3...
<katzor> hi, can someone help me? im trying to build libvmime, however the deb that gets created only contains the files for /usr/share/doc and nothing substantial...
<katzor> no vmime today?
<comadreja> aren't there too few bugs stored in malone ? is there any reason ?
<Burgundavia> there are lots of bugs in malone
<comadreja> Burgundavia : I must be doing something wrong then
<comadreja> Burgundavia : I'd like to work on any
<Burgundavia> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+bugs
<Burgundavia> there is your link
<Burgundavia> hundreds
<Burgundavia> .desktop files are an easy bug to work on
<comadreja> are all of them in breezy ?
<Burgundavia> if they are fixed the bug can be closed
<comadreja> can I assign them to me freely ?
<comadreja> or should I tell somebody ?
<Burgundavia> if you are going to fix them, I see no reason not to assign them to you
<comadreja> of course
<comadreja> cool, thanks, could I ask for more help ?
<Burgundavia> sure
<Burgundavia> I am not a MOTU, but I know most a fair amount
<comadreja> Thanks Burgundavia :) ok, let's say I decide to work on a bug
<comadreja> next step is to download the source package ? breezy ? hoary ?
<Burgundavia> breezy
<comadreja> how can I test if it's solved in hoary ? is the one I have installed ?
<Burgundavia> it doesn't need to be solved in hoary, only in breezy
<Burgundavia> unless it is a security fix or a major crasher
<comadreja> yes, I mean test a breezy package in hoary
<Burgundavia> after you fix it, upload it to REVU
<pef> hello
<Burgundavia> salut
<comadreja> no diff/patch file ?
<comadreja> hello pef
<pef> :)
<Burgundavia> comadreja, see the page on REVU on the wiki to see what you have to do
<pef> on peut parler fr ici ?
<comadreja> Thanks again Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> oui, si tu veux
<Burgundavia> I have to run, if you need anything just PM me
<pef> juste une petite question alors
<comadreja> cool
<pef> hi
<pef> what's the best way to correct a bug in a package ?
<uniq> pef: depends on the package and the bug i guess.
<pef> uniq: a bad charset in a manpage, reencoding with iconv and it's ok
<pef> uniq: sysv-init
<uniq> pef: then i would suggest reencoding in the rules file.
<pef> uniq: it's an unique file among many
<uniq> you can always make a patch.
<pef> uniq: so I add this rule, and send you the new package with ubuntu+1 revision number ?
<uniq> is the file provided by upstream?
<uniq> sending it to me won't help much.
<JanC> pef : what manpage are you talking about ?
<uniq> i could upload it to revu for you, that's about it.
<pef> JanC: update-rc.d.8
<pef> JanC: utf8 instead iso8859-1
<pef> so french accents are weirdly displayd
<JanC> it should be utf8 ?
<pef> JanC: no, iso8859-1 like the others
<JanC> hoary & breezy are utf8 ?
<thesaltydog> pef, I suggest you to put everything in UTF-8
<thesaltydog> JanC, yes, they are.
<JanC> 'man update-rc.d' displays just fine here...
<pef> JanC: the french version ?
<JanC> pef : utf8 for every language
<thesaltydog> pef, if you don't see correctly the french version, it is because the page has not been eutf-8 encoded.
<JanC> that's what unicode was designed for  :)
<JanC> the french translation is encoded as iso8859-1 and should be utf8 ?
<thesaltydog> yes!
<thesaltydog> JanC, it is like po pages. If they are not utf8 encoded, they displays weirdly..
<thesaltydog> uniq, ?
<pef> JanC: so every manpage is currently utf-8 encoded ?
<thesaltydog> pef, yes it should be
<JanC> pef : it should be yes
<pef> the french are currently not
<uniq> thesaltydog: yes?
<pef> find /usr/share/man/fr/ -type f -exec file -iz '{}' \;|awk ' /charset=iso-8859/ { print $1" "$3}'
<pef> it returns iso8859-1 encodings
<thesaltydog> uniq, do you have a REVU upload account?
<uniq> thesaltydog: i have.
<pef> and only 1 utf-8, the update-rc.d which displays weirdly :)
<thesaltydog> uniq, my package is hanging in MOTUNewPackages, and Daniel Holbach has put the final note: signed.
<thesaltydog> but I don't have a signed key, so I can't upload.
<JanC> pef : what's your locale ?
<pef> LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8
<pef> LANGUAGE=fr_FR:fr:en_GB:en
<JanC> it seems like a lot of man pages are still iso-8859 ...
<pef> output of my previous command : http://dl.erodia.net/ubuntu/output
<thesaltydog> warty was iso-8859-1
<pef> thesaltydog: it's a fresh install of breezy using colony1 cd
<uniq> thesaltydog: you can get a REVU account without a signed key, my key isn't signed either.
<thesaltydog> the manpages you say are still 8859-1, are old ones. they need to be updated
<JanC> seems like there is some work to do  ;)
<thesaltydog> I have an account, but siretart told me that I can't upload if I don't have a signed key..
<pef> JanC: I will be very happy to do this, it's why I asked how to correct packages ;)
<uniq> thesaltydog: you can't upload to universe without a signed key, you can upload to revu without.
<JanC> shouldn't $LANGUAGE also include the .UTF8 ?
<thesaltydog> uniq, I believe you, but siretart told me I can't
<thesaltydog> uniq, maybe I should try tomorrow..
<uniq> go for it :)
<thesaltydog> uniq, ok. tomorrow I'll let you know..
<Mez> hmm... got a weird comment in REVU
<Mez> that I need to put the copyright year in debian/copyright
<Mez> I've not seen it in any other debian/cipyright before
<pef> Mez: try glurp for example ;)
<pef> glurp package
<pef> has year
<uniq> /usr/share/doc/dpkg/copyright - so does dpkg
<uniq> and bash.
<uniq> dpkg is a good example.
<siretart> thesaltydog: I told you that you should get your key signed, but that I also already have your (unsigned) key added
<siretart> Mez: see this post from weasel: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2003/12/msg00188.html
<thesaltydog> siretart, ah, ok... So I have misunderstood... Sorry and thanks!
<pef> so I should make a bug report for the iso8859-1 encoded manpages ?
<uniq> pef: bugreports are always good, just to document the problem. even if you fix it right away it's good.
<thesaltydog> siretart, one question, as this will be my first attempt for an upload... Uploading the file .changes, will automatically upload also the orig.tar.gz? It is not listed in .changes..
<siretart> thesaltydog: use "debuild -S -sa" when building the source package
<thesaltydog> I did
<pef> uniq: ok, I just need some pointers on how to correct a package, I know how to create a package from scratch, but nothing about correction
<siretart> according to manpage, the changes file includes the .orig.tar.gz then, and well, that works for me [tm]  ;)
<ajmitch> morning
<uniq> pef: if it can easily be done in the rules file without adding too much dependencies i suggest doing it in the rules file in this case. It's impossible to give a 'standard' answer for your question. However, changes are best made in patches or in the rules file. (correct me if i'm wrong)
<uniq> awkward explaining.. :|
<pef> uniq: for example, if I want to correct the encoding of a file, I just have to add for example an iconv command in the rules file, then increasing the package's version number, modifying the changelog, and voila :p ?
<thesaltydog> siretart, I have 2 .changes file: <package>-<version>_source.changes and <package>-<version>.changes. Which one is the file for dput?
<uniq> pef: iconv is in the default buildsystem, it's provided by libc6, so yes, in this case just put a line in the rules file, to recode the manpage in the build process.
<Mez> _source
<thesaltydog> ok
<pef> uniq: there are _huge_ number of packages that need manpage recoding, nearly every package provinding a french manpage :/
<siretart> thesaltydog: only the _source.changes one. we cannot revu binary packages
<pef> Do I have to create a bug report for each of them, and providing the corrected package ?
<Mez> siretart, do you know how godamn annoying it is to get a source package out of pbuilder ;)
<tseng> Mez: uh
<uniq> pef: i still think this is the easiest (and maybe best?) solution. doesn't need to add dependencies, and you only add a line to the rules file. small change, no need for dpatch and all the extra stuff that comes with it.
<tseng> Mez: it freaking puts it right in the results directory
<tseng> Mez: it cant get much easier than that
<uniq> pef: i would make a bugreport for each, i guess. easier to keep track of which are fixed and which are not.
<Mez> tseng - put it deosnt put _source.changes
<tseng> of course it doesnt
<Mez> and for soemt reason without a source.changes it wont upload the orig.tar.gz
<tseng> thats not part of the source
<tseng> thats part of the upload
<pef> uniq: ok, so I know what I have to do next days ;) thanks for your accurate infos
<tseng> dude you dont upload stuff from pbuilder
<tseng> its not signed
<Mez> tseng :D
<Mez> it is if you use --auto-debsign
<tseng> well dont do it
<Mez> pdebuild = useful
<uniq> mez: the point is that you don't upload binary packages, because building is not your laptops job, in the end. :)
<Mez> uniq: I know...
<thesaltydog> siretart, Connection failed, aborting. Check your network (-2, 'Name or service not known')
<Mez> I never said it was :D I'm saying, when you use pbuilder to buidl tehm normally, so you can work out deps automaticalyl,.... it's a PITA to get an uploadable output
<uniq> no, it's not :)
<uniq> 'debuild -S -sa' in the source directory will do that for you. I use pbuilder myself for testbuilds.
<Mez> uniq - I know that
<Mez> lol :D I just find it a lil annoying thats all :)P
<thesaltydog> siretart, ok, I mispelled the host name
<Mez> It just confused the hell out of me for a while when it didnt work :D
<pef> http://dl.erodia.net/ubuntu/datakiosk/ someone could check if my package is really ok for upload ?
<Burgundavia> pef, that is what REVU is for now
<pef> Burgundavia: it is on it :)
<pef> Burgundavia: I've corrected what the comments mentionned
<Burgundavia> then reupload to REVU
<pef> Burgundavia: I'm not a motu
<Burgundavia> you can reupload a package over yours
<Burgundavia> if you fixing problems
<Mez> Burgundavia, you dont need to be
<Mez> you just need a revu account.
<Mez> REvU is mainly used to "train" potential motu IIRC
<uniq> siretart: a suggestion for REVU would be a list on a per user basis of packages he uploaded, and the comments for each. great for later refference. and to keep track of which packages made it into the universe also helps the motu team to keep track of non motu maintainers. is there a wiki i should put this on maybe?=
<thesaltydog> siretart, the package is uploaded. Thanks!
<pef> Burgundavia: but it's Jonathan Ridell who upload first my package, so I imagine I can't upload over him ?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Burgundavia> no idea
<Burgundavia> but in general, as I understand it, that is what you need to do
<pef> I juste have to create an account and try I guess :D
<thesaltydog> uniq, should I remove now the package from MOTUNewPackages?
<Burgundavia> the REVU wiki page should list how to do that
<uniq> thesaltydog: if it's uploaded? yes.
<thesaltydog> uniq, yes. I have just uploaded. Thanks.
<uniq> anyone know what this linda error is all about: 'kio-apt_0.11-0ubuntu1.dsc failed to process: Format args for switching-native-nonnative don't match Description. (0 vs 2)' ?
#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-13
<siretart> uniq: yes, note this on wiki.ubuntu.com/REVUDevelopment
<uniq> will do. thanks.
<siretart> sorry, I'm currently not available very well, I'm in an internet cafe with friends right now..
<uniq> no problem, enjoy :)
<pef> bye !
<uniq> figured out the linda error.
<comadreja> how do I setup my hoary to compile breezy packages without breaking the system ?
<uniq> install pbuilder
<uniq> or make a chroot with debootstrap and dchroot
<comadreja> how do I use any ? howtos ? pointers ?
<uniq> hang on.
<uniq> comadreja: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
<comadreja> thanks uniq :)
<comadreja> uniq: ping
<uniq> pong.
<comadreja> I get an error with pbuilder
<comadreja> I: Configuring dpkg-dev...
<comadreja> W: Failure while configuring base packages.  This will be attempted 5 times.
<comadreja> ...
<comadreja>  -> Aborting with an error
<comadreja>  /usr/bin/apt-get: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<uniq> force it from the shell; 'pbuilder login --save-after-login'
<ogra> comadreja, did you follow the howto ?
<comadreja> yep
<uniq> if the base.tgz. is made at all.
<ogra> and installed a hoary pbuildr first...
<comadreja> it fails at pbuilder create
<uniq> oh, you're trying to make a breezy build directly?
<comadreja> I installed a breezy pbuilder
<ogra> doesnt work
<ogra> update a hoary pbuilder
<comadreja> nopes, sorry breezy debootstrap
<ogra> like the howto says :)
<comadreja> hoary pbuilder
<comadreja> then pbuilder create --distribution breezy
<ogra> nope
<ogra> look at the howto
<ogra> it says how to build a hoary pbuilder and how to update that to breezy
<comadreja> yes, I did, I think so
<comadreja> I created the config, changed the hoary for breezy
<ogra> you created it for hoary ?
<comadreja> oh, nopes, I directly created the config for breezy
<ogra> thats what i mean
<comadreja> thanks, sorry :/
<comadreja> now I get this trying to build gnome-terminal :
<comadreja>  -> Considering  libvte-dev (>= 1:0.11.13)
<comadreja>       Tried versions: 1:0.11.12-0ubuntu2
<comadreja>    -> Does not satisfy version, not trying
<comadreja> E: Could not satisfy build-dependency.
<comadreja> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
<uniq> did you update it to breezy?
<comadreja> yep
<comadreja> everything worked fine
<comadreja> I'm trying to build breezy gnome-terminal
<uniq> try another mirror then, i have libvte-dev 1:0.11.13-2ubuntu1 available in breezy.
<uniq> how did you change sources.list in pbuilder?
<comadreja> 1,$s/hoary/breezy
<uniq> which file? and how did you get into the pbuilder base.tgz? pbuilder login --save-after-login ?
<comadreja> I changed /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/sources.list
<jamessan|laptop> you didn't read the howto very well, then.  it tells you exactly what to do
<comadreja> sorry, maybe we're reading different howtos
<comadreja> it has three lines regarding the change to breezy
<comadreja> one is this
<comadreja>  change all occurences of hoary in /etc/pbuilderrc and /etc/pbuilder/apt.config/ to breezy
<uniq> I didn't read a howto, i did it from reading the manpage :)
<comadreja> ok, sorry, I just did what the howto says
<uniq> you started it with pbuilder --override-config then?
<comadreja> and it doesn't seem to work, I'll fix the howto when I get how this works
<ogra> comadreja, i did it too, and my pbuilder works
<comadreja> yep
<comadreja> ogra, I don't doubt it, but mine doesn't
<uniq> comadreja: when you execute 'pbuilder update' does it say hoary or breezy?
<comadreja> I didn't check, should I'll do it again ?
<comadreja> it says Upgrading for distribution breezy
<uniq> when downloading from the mirrors too?
<comadreja> oh, I see the problem
<comadreja> Failed to fetch http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/s/sed/sed_4.1.4-2_i386.deb  MD5Sum mismatch
<uniq> ah.
<uniq> change to archive.ubuntu.com :)
<comadreja> also with libacl1_2
<ogra> dont use the us mirror, its unstable :)
<comadreja> ok, thanks
<comadreja> that's not in the howto ;)
<ogra> and if youre developing its better to use archive directly because the mirrors have a timeshift
<tseng> we should probabyl not make that default in the installer
<tseng> if no one is going to fix it
<ogra> tseng, huh ?
<ogra> us is the default in the installer anywhere ?
<tseng> us mirror
<comadreja> ogra yes
<tseng> if you use us locale
<ogra> ouch
<comadreja> I used the installer
<comadreja> and it was my default
<ogra> thats bad
* tseng nods
<comadreja> that's in hoary...
<uniq> it's like that in the most recent breezy too.
<uniq> afaik.
<ogra> hmm, so the mirror should be stabilized then ...
<uniq> or us.archive should be redirected to archive. temporarily
<uniq> as dns is often easier to change than fixing a broken mirror.
<comadreja> ok, now I (supposedly) fixed a bug in gnome-terminal, how do I test the package ?
<comadreja> it's built
<schweeb> you install it
<schweeb> and test it
<comadreja> no dependency problems ?
<uniq> it'll end up in /var/cache/pbuilder/result if you don't specify otherwise.
<comadreja> yes, dependency problems
<comadreja> I can't install it
<schweeb> although, gnome-terminal is in main, so you'll have to submit a patch to the maillist or bugzilla, rather than having someone upload a package
<schweeb> which branch are you running?
<comadreja> sure, I'm just willing to check it. Hoary
<schweeb> may just want to submit the bug, and have one of the main devs fix it and test it themselves
<schweeb> if you're unwilling to go to breezy
<comadreja> oh, it's an already submitted bug
<schweeb> I know
<comadreja> 1219, malone
<schweeb> I would imagine so
<schweeb> paste the text of the patch into the notes
<schweeb> as a proposed fix
<tseng> schweeb++
<comadreja> how would I do that, if I don't even know if it works ?
<schweeb> you could try to compile it against the libs on your running system
<schweeb> but, the abi/apis have almost certainly changed
<comadreja> doing, thanks
<comadreja> damn...
<schweeb> best option: upgrade to breezy :p
<schweeb> kinda have to run the development branch if you plan on developing for it
* schweeb is downloading the new openoffice.org2
<tseng> schweeb: it rocks
<comadreja> really, is it not dangerous ? but I work with my laptop on development too... It scares me a bit
<schweeb> tseng: rocks is a relative term
<tseng> ok, it rocks oo 1.1
<schweeb> I've been running breezy on my laptop for about a month now
<schweeb> works great
<seth_k> I've been running breezy on laptop and desktop since Hoary+1
<seth_k> no real worries
<schweeb> kinda gotta stay plugged into the community to know what's known to be broken
<comadreja> ok, I'll make you responsible ;P
<seth_k> 2.6.12 kernel still not working on desktop though
<tseng> make yourself responsible
<schweeb> lemme guess - you need the linux-restricted-modules package, seth_k ?
<uniq> i use the 2.6.12 kernel.. works great :)
<comadreja> tseng, it was a joke, as just you could have imagined
<schweeb> same here
<seth_k> schweeb: no. My system clock runs about 20x too fast
<seth_k> schweeb: with the 2.6.12-k7 kernel
<tseng> i dont have a very vivid imagination RE user support
<tseng> ive seen it all
<seth_k> schweeb: the laptop, running 2.6.12-686 is fine
<comadreja> tseng : feeling better of your nightmares ?
<tseng> no.
<comadreja> I guessed ;)
<schweeb> seth_k: does it do the same w/ the -386 kernel?
<schweeb> and, is the bug reported?
<seth_k> schweeb: only k7 kernel affected afaik, and reported yesterday
<schweeb> reminds me, I need to file a couple kernel bugs
<schweeb> frigging ACPI
* schweeb ponders trying network manager
<tseng> schweeb: do it
<comadreja> is there anything like a --save-after-build for pbuilder ?
<schweeb> save after build?
<schweeb> it throws all of the packages into a directory in its chroot
<schweeb> somewhere in /var
<comadreja> but for every build it reinstalls
<schweeb> oh
<schweeb> that's intentional
<schweeb> it's the whole point
<comadreja> anyway, I don't know if it has too much sense (me using pbuilder) as I'm upgrading to breezy
<schweeb> if you leave packages installed in there, then it wouldn't be useful to determine if your dependencies are correct
<schweeb> pbuilder is useful for a clean build environment
<schweeb> your running system is not a clean build environment
<comadreja> I see
<schweeb> you understand what I'm getting at?
<comadreja> yep, I do, thanks
<comadreja> :)
<comadreja> but for tests, I definitely can't use pbuilder
<comadreja> it just takes too long
<schweeb> yea, pbuilder isn't meant to be an interactive install
<schweeb> er s/install/desktop/
<comadreja> btw, instead of moving completely to breezy, I just duplicated deb and deb-src in the sources.list (breezy/hoary)
<comadreja> and installed necesary packages with -t breezy
<schweeb> ewwww
<tseng> well if you dist-upgrade
<comadreja> also made hoary default:release
<tseng> you will get everything
<schweeb> that's not a reliable testing environment
<tseng> besides that being disgusting
<schweeb> not at all
<comadreja> :(
<schweeb> you're supposed to be testing it in the exact same environment that it will run in
<schweeb> which, if you're only half breezy, you've got a horrible mismatch of junk
<comadreja> I see, yes
<schweeb> some libraries will be old versions, some will be new
<schweeb> and will interact in different ways than if you were fully breezy
<comadreja> but dependencies should work that out, right ?
<seth_k> no
<schweeb> not necessarily
<comadreja> ok, I'll move to breezy
<schweeb> is there some non-ugly way to set your default gcc w/o manually changing the symlink?
<schweeb> pretty sure this cisco vpnclient is failing on build because of the c/c++ api/abi change
<schweeb> is malone the preferred place to submit all bugs now?  or should I cross-post with bugzilla?
<seth_k> oy, wish i knew
<comadreja> now I need help
<comadreja> I was upgrading, and I get this
<comadreja> Unpacking x-common (from .../archives/x-common_1.02_all.deb) ...
<comadreja> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/x-common_1.02_all.deb (--unpack):
<comadreja>  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/X11', which is also in package xorg-common
<plugwash> it sounds like a package has been renamed without appropriate replaces or conflicts being in place
<plugwash> i think you need to remove xorg-common then try to upgrade again
<comadreja> I did a dpkg --force-overwrite -i ... of the package
<comadreja> is this a reported bug ?
<comadreja> ok, I upgraded to breezy and now X won't start
<comadreja> missing output drivers, it says
<comadreja> nopes, signal 11
<schweeb> chris@schweeb-x41:~/Desktop/vpnclient$ ls -l /usr/bin/X
<schweeb> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 14 2005-07-04 13:09 /usr/bin/X -> ../X11R6/bin/X
<schweeb> be sure that symlink is correct
<comadreja> yep, it is
<comadreja> help, please
<schweeb> could you paste the exact errors to a pastebin somewhere or something?
<comadreja> I have no web browser
<comadreja> Exact error is:
<comadreja> Fatal server error:
<comadreja> Caught signal 11. Server aborting
<comadreja> is there a solution or should I start reinstalling hoary ?
<comadreja> I mean, I've gotta work tomorrow
<comadreja> and I need the computer :)
<schweeb> I'm not well versed as to what sig11 is
<schweeb> how are you starting X?
<schweeb> through GDM or startx
<comadreja> gdm
<comadreja> startx does the same
<schweeb> you ONLY have breezy sources in your sources.list right now?
<schweeb> and you don't have any odd pinning going on?
<comadreja> only breezy, no pinning
<comadreja> but I'll start pinning right away
<comadreja> :)
<comadreja> nothing, fuck it
<comadreja> I'll reinstall hoary
<schweeb> be sure you don't have any packages still held
<comadreja> I don't, I'm screwed
<comadreja> it's a signal 11
<comadreja> that's a sigint, right
<comadreja> ?
<jamessan> man 7 signal
<comadreja> cool, much better
<comadreja> is there any way to use aptitude to install hoary's X ?
<comadreja> how do I reinstall the whole gnome, ubuntu-desktop, X, and all related ?
<_crimsun> 'evening, tritium. How are things?
<tritium> hi _crimsun.  Getting close now.  How are you?
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<tritium> hi there bddebian.  Still up, eh?
<bddebian> tritium: Of course :-)
<comadreja> hey, I need help
<bddebian> comadreja: Yeah, we know :-)
<comadreja> :/ damn it's 6:00 am
<comadreja> I won't sleep today
<comadreja> where could I find an older xserver-xorg package ?
<tritium> _crimsun, it's been a while.  What's new?
<jamessan> comadreja: why not just install hoary and be done with it?
<comadreja> I won't give up :)
<comadreja> it's just a bug in xserver-xorg
<comadreja> with i810
<comadreja> if I could find an older version... I made too many fixes to this installation
<comadreja> I don't wanna lose them.
<comadreja> I'm downloading the colony cd2
<comadreja> I guess I could find an older xserver-xorg there
<ajmitch> comadreja: morgue.ubuntu.com may help
<comadreja> cool, thanks ajmitch !
<ajmitch> although it doesn';t look to have been updated for awhile
<_crimsun> tritium: not much, finally got in contact with my sister in london a couple hours ago, so things are looking up. What's new with you?
<schweeb> the archive should have a few versions back still, I believe
<comadreja> is there anyway to search over morgue ?
<tritium> _crimsun, I'm glad you heard from her.  I didn't realize you had family there.  Same with me.  Finalizing my dissertation this weekend.
<comadreja> seems too old packages
<_crimsun> tritium: ah, best of luck (again)! You'll do great. :)
<tritium> _crimsun, thanks.  I've been running Monte-Carlo simulations for I can't recall how long now... :)
<_crimsun> :)
* schweeb tosses his pager into the lake
<tritium> good night, guys
<comadreja> hey, with 6.8.2-33 I get an X not executable, but I have the link
<comadreja> ok, got the X working
<comadreja> but the desktop is very unstable
<comadreja> :)
<tiglionabbit> hello
<ivoks> siretart: ping
<siretart> ivoks: pong
<siretart> morning :)
<mitsuhiko> morning siretart
<siretart> hi mitsuhiko
<lunatech> is there a ubuntu jabber server ?
<lunatech> to test out MOTUIM ?
<Mez> I doubt it luna :D
<Mez> but that's something to think about
<Treenaks> hm... I guess I'm too late to troll Microsoft Teched with Hoary CDs ;)
<tseng> ftp://ftp.ssc.com/pub/lj/Web/RC/8272.txt
<tseng> we are up against CentOS and Fedora
<tseng> good times
<uniq> lunatech: you can make your own, apt-get install jabber :)
<mort> hey DanielN, you allright?
<lunatech> uniq: i know, just wanted to see what the cutting edge is like on ubuntu-jabber :)
<lunatech> for example, i read that you could tunnel y! and msn network into jabber - but i don't know how
<mort> http://kqe.de/pruell/parents-magazine.gif
<Treenaks> mort: sigh
<mort> Treenaks: :-) do you have moral problems reading that word or do you think making fun of it isn't very mature or didn't you get it?
<Treenaks> mort: the immature part :)
<siretart> ok, worked on revu a bit
<siretart> now html comments work, archive is reenabled. uploads are "unarchived" on every new upload
<siretart> have fun!
<slomo> siretart: hmm... maybe sort the uploads by their upload date, oldest on top
* Mez wonders when things normally get looked at
<siretart> slomo: well, sort of this is already done that way
<siretart> slomo: but additionally, uploads are grouped by 'Updated' and 'NEW' Packages
<slomo> hm when exactly does a package change from new to updated?
<siretart> slomo: a NEW package is a package not in the ubuntu archive (yet)
<siretart> an 'updated' package is updating a package in the archive
<slomo> ok... i thought that state only relates to the upload in some way, for example updated when an updated upload is uploaded
<siretart> nope
<siretart> the difference is that NEW packages need 3 advocates, normal package updates only 1 advocate
<siretart> therefore they are likley to get uploaded more quickly
<slomo> yes that makes sense ;)
<slomo> btw... is anyone here who knows why there is a fairly new version of smlnj as sourcepackage in the archives but only old versions are available as binary package (which are even incomplete)... on my ppc machine the new sourcepackage builds fine
<slomo> or is there some place where i can look at the build logs?
<comadreja> howdy all
<siretart> slomo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont
<ogra> slomo, if you want just an overwiew for the day also hwdb.ubuntu.com
<ogra> err
<ogra> hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs
<slomo> thanks
<siretart> wow. hwdb is nice!
<slomo> hum... i remember the problem i had with smlnj... the package build depends on itself... by ignoring the depencies one get a (incomplete) binary of the compiler which then can be used to build the whole package... is also written in the README.Debian
<slomo> what can be done about that?
<plugwash> slomo fix the debian build system so it can build without build depending on itself
<plugwash> by making it do two compilation runs as part of the normal bulid process
<slomo> hm i make a note and will look at it later...
<\sh> *phew*
<\sh> my laptop is actually working again
<Lathiat> heh
<\sh> actually only half way through with a nice working env
<ivoks> hi all
<Lathiat> i can get ubuntu up adn going within an hour
<Lathiat> plus some download time
<Lathiat> which totally rocks
<ivoks> yeah
<\sh> lathiat: it took me two hours now, just because I'm too blond to install my new hd correctly ;)
<Lathiat> i want to write a script to set my magic gconf keys
<\sh> and updated to breezy, xorg was breaking again ;)
<Lathiat> already got one that installs packages, fixes config files, etc
<ivoks> i hate blond guys :)
<Lathiat> \sh: yeh, i had to futz to get Xorg going
<Lathiat> had to do a mix of
<Lathiat> upgrade
<Lathiat> dist-upgrade
<Lathiat> -f install
<Lathiat> and dpkg -i stuff
<\sh> yeah
<Lathiat> cus xorg-common vs x-common
<Lathiat> wanted to replace a file
<Lathiat> installing in the wrong order
<Lathiat> so i had to force install one
<Lathiat> then -f
<Lathiat> then dist-upgrade
<Lathiat> plus i had to -f install just to get to that point
<\sh> ok...my backups are at home...
<j^> doey anyone know what happend to libwx2.5.3 in breezy, is it just missing due to some transision?
<Hieronymus> apt-cache search libwx
<Hieronymus> shows some
<j^> Hieronymus only 2.4 not 2.5
<Hieronymus> Hieronymus: yes I see. And there was 2.5 in Hoary?
<Hieronymus> That'd be weird
<j^> libwxgtk2.5.3
<j^> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/libs/libwxgtk2.5.3
<j^> together with the python bindings
<Hieronymus> you might want to file a bug then
<j^> problem is wxgtk2.4 is still using gtk1.2
<j^> in malone?
<Hieronymus> j^: universe is malone, main is bugzilla
<j^> well it was in universe in hoary...
<Hieronymus> j^: you might want to file a bug then, if none is already filed
<j^> ok https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1308
* j^ still tries to get used to malone
<Hieronymus> aha!!
<Hieronymus> wxvlc depends on that!
<Hieronymus> might that be why vlc has not been installable?
<Hieronymus> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1138
<j^> yup.
<j^> it needs wx2.5 + a rebuild to depend on dbus 0.3
<j^> or not depend on dbus
* j^ tries to build the version from hoary
<Hieronymus> How do I figure out who's the maintainer for a Universe package?
<ogra> Hieronymus, the last guy who changed it
<Hieronymus> uh, yeah, how do I figure that out?
<j^> Hieronymus debian/changelog
<ogra>  /usr/share/doc/<package>/changelog.Debian.gz
<Hieronymus> It's a Debian guy
<Hieronymus> well, he has @debian.org
<Hieronymus>  -- Isaac Clerencia <isaac@debian.org>  Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:01:04 +0200
<j^> wxwidgets2.5 (2.5.3.2ubuntu4) hoary; urgency=low
<j^>   * Fix missing wx/archive.h header in wx2.5-headers.  Thanks,
<j^>     Werner Mahr!  Closes: Ubuntu#8316 and Debian#294998.
<j^>  -- Daniel T Chen <crimsun@fungus.sh.nu>  Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:44:26 -0500
<ogra> so it wasnt touched in ubuntu then...
<j^> thing is that it was only in experimental if i remember right
<j^> and never made it into sarge
<j^> latest version on http://www.wxwidgets.org/ is 2.6.1 stable release
<ogra> j^, iirc we wanted to wait for 2.6 .... but dont quote me on that
<Mez> nope,. cant be arsed, although it would be nice.
<ogra> (for 2.6 to be packaged in debain)
<Mez> though technically I could make a package to run the .run file ;)
<j^> but removing 2.5 and not replacing it with 2.6 is a bad idea
<Hieronymus> so I should file a Debian bug report instead?
<j^> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=316680
<Hieronymus> for https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1213
<blackmoon> hi
<blackmoon> there are a packager for freepops (amd64 )for hoary?
<Hieronymus> blackmoon: http://packages.ubuntu.com
<blackmoon> Hieronymus: i've already look there but this package is only for breezy...
<blackmoon> Hieronymus: ...and this don't work on hoary...
<Hieronymus> blackmoon: so?
<Hieronymus> then ther is none
<Mez> omg...
<Mez> this is going to be such an awkward package
<blackmoon> Hieronymus: ...i've recompiled (and packaged) it for hoary (amd64) and work...
<Hieronymus> blackmoon: smile, be happy :)
<blackmoon> ...so you can do the same and put it in the hoary repository, for all other user...
<Hieronymus> maybe you can add it at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates with the comment "I recompiled the Breezy package and it worked" or something similar?
<blackmoon> ok, why not... but i'm not a programmer... it's the same?
<blackmoon> ok, thanks for your time.... bye...
<bddebian> Heya
<ed1t> hello
<sistpoty> siretart: huhu... i just commited some diagrams for revu2 :)
<siretart> hey, great! :)
<siretart> sistpoty: I'll install a mail trigger for us both, ok?
<siretart> ed1t: hi
<sistpoty> siretart: yeah, this would be great
<ed1t> hey siretart
<siretart> done
<sistpoty> http://studhome.rrze.uni-erlangen.de/~sistpoty/revu2/
<siretart> sistpoty: is this dia?
<sistpoty> siretart: yes (dia in svn, on studhome the png's)
<siretart> just checked it out
<siretart> tseng: ping
<sistpoty> siretart: shall I write s.th. on the Revudevelopment-page in wiki about it?
<siretart> sistpoty: that would be great. tseng and Burgundiva created and discussed about further revu devolpment earlier this week..
<sistpoty> siretart: ok :)
<ed1t> i hate gaim
<jsgotangco> ed1t: amen
<ed1t> lol
<ed1t> jsgotangco wat do u use?
<jsgotangco> well my laptop got busted today and they gave me a loaner on XP
<jsgotangco> which im using now
<jsgotangco> i just installed GAIM
<siretart> hrhr:         * Major Version 2 (can do nothing, but that very elegantly)
<jsgotangco> and using it now to chat with you
<jsgotangco> gaim on windows is nice though
<ed1t> i just want a AIM client which flashes the windows when i get a message like windows
<ed1t> coz its annoying to go back forth and check for a message
<pef> hello
<siretart> hello pef
<bddebian> Hello pef
<ed1t> is this the channel for laptop supports team?
<Hieronymus> ed1t: this is MOTU. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
<siretart> ed1t: this channel is about maintenance of the universe ;)
<bddebian> You guys are maintaining the Universe? Wow! :-)
<ed1t> lol
<jsgotangco> you should talk to those maintaining the Multiverse!
<siretart> hehe
<jsgotangco> well i gotta sleep at least when i wake up i'll be able to get my laptop again
<jsgotangco> rest easy guys
<Hieronymus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNEWGames If I find games somewhere am I allowed/supposed (as non-MOTU) to edit that page?
<siretart> Hieronymus: you are perfectly welcome to do so!
<sistpoty> siretart: just wrote some (more or less silly) text... want to look over it?
<siretart> sistpoty: sure
<ivoks> hi
<bddebian> Heya ivoks
<siretart> huhu ivoks
<ivoks> siretart: oh, did you saw my feature request for revu? :)
<siretart> ivoks: err, which one? ;)
<ivoks> to create repository on server
<pef> siretart: is it possible you to delete from revu datakiosk uploaded by jridell ? I've just uploaded a corrected version
<ivoks> so we can apt-get source bla bla
<ivoks> so we don't have to download each file individualy
<siretart> ivoks: hm. how do you specify which upload candidate to download with apt-get?
<ivoks> apt-get -t revu source bla
<siretart> ivoks: assuming there are 3 uploads, 2 with the same version number. how to get each of those 3?
<ivoks> why each? only last one
<siretart> only latest one.. hmhmm..
<sistpoty> maybe a hook on upload could do this?
<siretart> ivoks: which archive software would you recommend for this?
<ivoks> none :)
<sistpoty> there must be s.th. out there ;)
<ivoks> archive software?
<Hieronymus> siretart: well, I did at some (lincity-ng and dangerdeep) :-)
<Hieronymus> * have added
<sistpoty> ivoks: to create a debian-structured archive
<sistpoty> i assume :)
<siretart> sistpoty: well, I certainly don't want to reimplement half of dak with a revu hook ;)
<siretart> right
<sistpoty> hrhr got that one :)
<ivoks> sistpoty: i don't know, but there are tools for that, otherwise we wouldn't have archives :)
<sistpoty> ivoks: that's what i meant with "there must be s.th. out there" ;)
<siretart> Hieronymus: err, sorry. what did you do?
<pef> siretart: I tried to upload my package of datakiosk but it seems to be unsuccesful, could you help me ?
<Hieronymus> siretart: add things to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNEWGames
<siretart> Hieronymus: aaah, great :)
<ivoks> debarchiver - Tool to handle debian package archives
<siretart> pef: just a moment
<pef> siretart: sure :)
<ivoks> i think debarchiver is something that we would use
<ivoks> check apt-cache show debarchiver
<sistpoty> ivoks: just read about it... i'll give it a try
<siretart> ivoks: I know debarchiver, but I think that mini-dinstall would be better suited for our purpose
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> siretart: i have no exp. with creating deb archives :( i'm sure you know better then me
<siretart> mini-dinstall has integrated checking of signatures of uploads, plus ability to extend with hooks. but I only worked with debarchiver until now
<ivoks> ok, mini-dinstall sounds good
<sistpoty> yes
<siretart> pef: I don't see any upload concerning datakiosk in my upload queue, did dput tell you it got uploaded? have a look at the .upload file
<pef> siretart: typo in dput.cf, upload gone to ubuntu host :/
<siretart> pef: err, thats not good ;)
<ivoks> :))
<pef> siretart: it asks me a password ?
<ivoks> it will be silently droped :)
<siretart> pef: no, revu is using an anonymous ftp, no password necessary
<pef> siretart: sorry
<siretart> n/p. another uploader already asked me this question already, but I have no idea what he got misconfigured. he finally managed to fix his config
<siretart> I don't remember who this was
<slomo> that was me ;)
<siretart> hehe
<siretart> slomo: perhaps you can help pef? ;)
<pef> erf :) now I think it's ok, but no .upload file
<slomo> hehe ok ;) my problem was the -c parameter of dput... solved it by copying the revu lines to the global dput.cf
<siretart> ah, there is a datakiosk in the UploadQueue..
<pef> :D
* Mez yawns
<pef> mm a lintian error
<pef> "W: datakiosk source: native-package-with-dash-version" is it a consequence of source only upload ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> thats a warning that you built a native packages (without orig.tar.gz)
<sistpoty> i bet the orig-tarball is spelled wrong (took me some time to find out that it has to be package-version_orig instead of packge-version-orig.tar.gz)
<bddebian> No one looks at my whacky lintian errors.. :'-(
<pef> bddebian: which package ?
<pef> sistpoty: thanks
<bddebian> pef: python-pyrtf
<sistpoty> pef:  really?
<sistpoty> was just a guess G
<sivang> bddebian: yo :-) have you already uploaded a HURD package to Universe?
<bddebian> pef: It's OK, ogra just lets me stay around as the #ubuntu-motu jester :-)
<ogra> hehe
<bddebian> sivang: Not yet, I'm trying to get my FTP server going first
* ogra tickles bddebian a bit
<bddebian> heh
<comadreja> what's the right way to report bugs ? bugzilla or malone ?
<ivoks> depends on package
<ivoks> main or universe?
<comadreja> xserver-xorg
<comadreja> main
<ivoks> bugzilla
<comadreja> cool, ivoks
<comadreja> thanks
<SloMoSnail> what's the correct way to get an updated package into universe which is currently not updated in debian?
<ivoks> ?
<ivoks> new upstream version?
<SloMoSnail> that and also updated packaging files
<ivoks> i'm not sure... ogra ?
<ivoks> \sh: hi
<bddebian> SloMoSnail: Bug the Debian maintainer to update it! :-)
<ogra> SloMoSnail, first step is always to talk to the debian maintainer
<bddebian> +1 bddebian
<SloMoSnail> i talked to the debian maintainer... the updated package ist by him ;) but he means he was unsuccessful at getting it uploaded into debian and is currently to busy with other work
<\sh> ivoks: sorry, i couldn't do anything for 2 days now
<ivoks> \sh: that's ok
<ivoks> i'm bussy too
<ivoks> last exams and stuff...
<ivoks> yay! first package with my name in changelog in ubuntu :)
<ivoks> etherape
<ivoks> :)
<pef> ivoks: only one ? ;)
<siretart> SloMoSnail: I would "backport" the changes of the net yet uploaded package to a new upload to ubuntu using the normal versioning convention
<bddebian> It rapes your ethe??
<bddebian> ivoks: Congrats! :-)
<ivoks> pef: yeah, guys don't like my nativly packaged wifi-radar :(
<ivoks> ;)
<\sh> ivoks: grats :)
<ivoks> all i did is gksu -> gksudo
<\sh> ivoks: can u upload already? ,-)
<ivoks> dman :)
<ivoks> \sh: well, didn't check for some time...
<tseng> siretart: hi
<ivoks> i sent e-mail to keyring
<ivoks> didn't get any confirmation
<pef> sistpoty: sorry to bother you again, but I've made a new upload to correct a stupid error (orig file missing due to bad filename), can you delete again the oldest entry ?
<pef> oups
<pef> owned by tab completion
<siretart> pef: he can, too ;) - but just do another upload
<pef> done a minute ago
* siretart has to fix the recover password feature.. it's currently broken
<ivoks> gnome dropping bonobo?
<siretart> huh?
<siretart> replacing with what?
<ivoks> < netdur> sivang, I heard that GNOME poeple moving away bonobo thing
<sistpoty> siretart: restart apache :P
<SloMo_> siretart: i'll try that... but currently i'm looking whether the package compiles ;)
<siretart> sistpoty: I think it's a bit more complicated. I'm on it
<sistpoty> omg
<ivoks> does every ubuntu derivated distro has to be brown? :)
<sistpoty> hrhr
<ivoks> doh, no time to devote it to edubuntu :(
<ivoks> just one more week on faculty, then i will have more time for ubuntu development
<ivoks> :)
<siretart> sistpoty: see commit mail, should work now
<sistpoty> cool :)
<siretart> who is martin schmeisser? do you happen to be in this channel?
<ivoks> bye all
<bddebian> Later ivoks
<pef> ivoks: bye !
<sistpoty> bye ivoks
<siretart> bye ivoks
<pef> when correcting bugs in a package, what's the right way ? filling a bug report, making a corrected package, uploading it to revu, if validated set the bug as fixed, is it right ?
<siretart> pef: yes, that would be best, I think
<pef> siretart: perfect :)
<SloMo_> siretart: "backporting" the packaging changes isn't that simple... in the debian package the upstream tarball contains the parts missing in the older packages...
<siretart> pef: I consider revu as a launchpad for getting your uploads into ubuntu..
<siretart> SloMo_: is it a new upstream version?
<pef> ok
<SloMo_> siretart: it's a bit complicated with that package... the "upstream tarball" contains many tar.gz from the upstream homepage which are all needed for compilation... and in this version the former missing ones are included
<pef> that's very interesting all this process :)
<SloMo_> siretart: and yes, its a new upstream version but that isn't the problem
<siretart> SloMo_: I'll say decide at your own discretion and make an upload candidate to ubuntu, documenting your decisions in the changelog.
<pef> is there a usual way to use a temporay file in rules file ? like applying a program to a file (iconv for me)
<SloMo_> siretart: ok, but what would be the right direction: old upstream version with changed tarball or new upstream version with the tarball of the debian maintainer? maybe just take the new version from the debian maintainer und set version from *-1 to *-0?
<siretart> SloMo_: to *-0ubuntu1 sounds sane
<SloMo_> ok
<Mez> siretart, I've had to make some 0ubuntu1's before (k3b, etc)
<SloMo_> siretart: ok, i'll do that later ;) hehe uploading 22 mb to revu will be fun ;)
<Mez> SloMo_, not as fun as uplaoding 40 Meg to backports ;)
<SloMo_> Mez: uploading 40 mb to backports hasn't worked for me ;) how do you do that?
<Mez> slomo, waited for about an hour :D
<Mez> hehe :D was a pain updating acroread ;)
<SloMo_> Mez: hm, i always got a timeout ;) had to send the packages to jdong to upload
<Mez> never had a timeout ...
<Mez> he musta changed it or something
<Mez> *Shrugs*
* \sh will try now the first build after rebuilding his laptops
<ogra> \sh, did youget a bigger one ?
<ogra> (disk indeed)
<Mez> lol
<\sh> ogra: no...the same size
<\sh> ogra: oh you mean the disk ;)
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> no..disk was only exchanged...same size :)
<ogra> hm..
<\sh> but it was difficult to install the disk...first I plugged it in, and it wasn't recognized at all...then I had to use force..after this enforcement of the disk, everything worked fine
* \sh is not the hardware freak anymore
<DanielN> hiho
<pef> hu
<pef> hi
<DanielN> \sh, around?
<Mez> Daniel Neunshwader (or whatever it is)
<Mez> ?
<DanielN> Mez, Neuenschwander, and yes, i am :)
<Mez> ah
<Mez> :D
* Mez waves
<DanielN> ^^
* \sh is 24h around..and spinning
<\sh> DanielN: how can Ihelp u?
<Mez> ogra, I'm noticing a few packages that are dependent on libs that have been fixed
<Mez> libblac2 etc
<Mez> what is done about those (increase version number and reupload or what?)
<Mez> I assumed that was the case until siretart told me to ask
<\sh> hmm...why is my secret key not recognized
<Mez> what is your secret key ?
<Mez> :P
<bddebian> HEHE
<\sh> strange
<\sh> ah...found it...:) environment vars are missing *lol*
<pef> in changelog there are only references to unstable, not breezy, should I put my new changelog entry as breezy or unstable ?
<tseng> if you mean to upload something to breezy
<tseng> it needs to be breezy
<\sh> pef: man dch ;)
<pef> last question : currently I  correct some wrong encodings in manpages (iso8859-1 instead of utf8), is I see others charsets, should I convert them to utf-8 too ?
<pef> s/is/if/
<sladen> pef: yup, everything to UTF-8  recode can do this for you;  if you want to keep the patch size down against Debian you could do it during the package process
<pef> sladen: yes, this is what people say to me in this channel, I will add a command to rules file
<pef> sladen: iconv is better because installed by default no ?
<sladen> pef: I guess so :)
<sladen> UTF-8 is goodness, anything else is less good :)
<pef> ok, it's all I have to know :)
<pef> bye !
#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-14
<dmk> hi all, I have been trying to build a few deb packages but I am not sure if I have done them right
<dmk> is there anywhere/way I can check them
<dmk> they install fine, but just wanted to be sure
<dmk> when I was doing packages for Slackware we used to have a script that verified everything
<dmk> thanks in advance
<jsgotangco> salut
<tseng> hi over here
<jsgotangco> hey tseng
<jsgotangco> thanks for the hosting of the docs for the meantime
<tseng> no problem dude
<jsgotangco> we're going to put them all in one place once we get the server from linode
<tseng> yep
<tseng> actually, you are on a server from linode now :)
<jsgotangco> oohh
<tseng> but its a top secret xen beta host
<tseng> shh
<jsgotangco> lol
<tseng> i feel AWFUL
<jsgotangco> hmm?
<tseng> i totally gorged myself two days in a row
<jsgotangco> haha
<tseng> yesterday a vendor took us to lunch at the fanciest place we could find
<tseng> today we went to a fancy texmex place, my fajitas were gigantic
<tseng> i have a problem leaving food behind :/
<jsgotangco> heh well i can't say the same for myself, i'm with a client right now helping them with their Oracle
<jsgotangco> their cafeteria is dead nasty
<tseng> we get vendors for all they're worth
<jsgotangco> and my bad luck hasn't even started yet my laptop just died yesterday
<jsgotangco> but they gave me a loaner now which im using
<tseng> :/
<jsgotangco> they told me i can get it later
<tseng> its friday night here
<jsgotangco> ah its already saturday here almost 9am
<tseng> bummer
<jsgotangco> well i'll come back later im having allegies using gaim on windows
<tseng> yuck
<jsgotangco> gotta take a bath
<jsgotangco> tseng: yeah
<tseng> :P
<jsgotangco> later dude
<tseng> cya
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
* seth_k is away: sleep
<seth_k> @#%@ turned off my away message on the desktop but not the laptop
<sivang> howdy all
<Treenaks> hey sivang
<tseng> does anyone recall what language the hula web interface is?
<jesper> tseng: Are you using Hula?
<tseng> no.
<tseng> or i would just look at it :)
<tseng> i guess it must be embedded in the hula server
<tseng> the interpreter
<tseng> i cant imagine they wrote a modern webapp in C
<JanC> seems like they use a templating engine of some sorts:
<JanC> http://forge.novell.com/modules/xfmod/svn/svnbrowse.php?uri=filedetails.php%3Frepname%3Dhula%26path%3D%252Ftrunk%252Fhula%252Fsrc%252Ftemplates%252Faurora%252Ffolder.htt%26rev%3D0%26sc%3D0
<tseng> hm yes
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [+o DanielN]  by ChanServ
* DanielN__ was kicked off #ubuntu-motu by DanielN (DanielN)
* mode/#ubuntu-motu [-o DanielN]  by DanielN
<DanielN> :)
<comadreja> howdy all
<DanielN> hi comadreja
<comadreja> hello DanielN :)
<sivang> howdy all
<Mez> siretart: did ogra ever reply about rebuild pacakges?
<siretart> Mez: I've been thinking about it, and come to the conclusion that uploading with an -XbuiltN version scheme would be best in this case
<Mez> .?
<Mez> ??
<siretart> well, the version in breezy is 1.1-3, I think we should reupload it with version 1.1-3build1.
<siretart> I've seen some uploads from doko and ogra with this scheme
<Mez> have you ?
<Mez> *Shrugs*
<siretart> ogra: can you comment on this?
<siretart> yeah, wait
<Mez> wont that screw up when you like do 1.1-3ubuntu1
<Mez> oh, no cause it's classed as a higher version
<Mez> do any MOTU know how to search for things that depend on a certain version of something?
<Mez> as for some reason half of the backports depend on libgcc1 (>= 1:4.0.0-7)
<Mez> which it shoultn
<ogra> siretart, Mez, you do that if its only a recompile without changes... that leaves the package upgradeable since the archouve scrits only react on ubuntuX
<ogra> archive scripts
<Mez> cool... well... can I poke you towards a few that need rebuilding
<siretart> ogra: yes. this is the case for us
<ogra> so call it buildX
<siretart> ok
<Mez> mail-notification, epiphany, frozen-bubble
<ogra> before you touch epiphany, talk to seb128
<Mez> oh, cool so I'll just poke them into revu then ?
<Mez> with the right version numbers
<siretart> Mez: I'm on mail-notification right know, go for frozen-bubble
<siretart> Mez: frozen-bubble needed and dependency rebuilt, I uploaded it yesterday evening. I hope it already reached your mirror
<Mez> siretart, will do once I've rebuilt firefox for backports
<tseng> we are still backporting firefox?
<siretart> Mez: btw, did you try to rebuilt networkmanager for hoary?
<Mez> I'm backporting it to fix the shitty dependencies
<Mez> siretart - no
<siretart> ok
<Mez> tseng: the current backport depends on a newer version of libgcc1 which it shouldnt
<Mez> and siretart - why
<siretart> Mez: I was thinking about doing it myself for my notebook
<Mez> siretart - I'll put it on my list
<siretart> I cannot upgrade to breezy right now, because I need restricted modules
<siretart> Mez: thanks! but don't loose too much time on it, I think that could be really tricky
<Mez> siretart - I wont ... but if it's apain in the ass - I'll shove the changes abck for breezy
<Mez> what's the pacakge name?
<Mez> nvm
<siretart> Mez: its called network-manager
<Mez> gotit  :D
<ogra> huh, you want to backport NM ???
<siretart> ogra: I was only thinking trying it get it built on hoary
<siretart> I did not mean to request a backport ;)
<Mez> lol :D
<ogra> guys thats crazy... it needs functions from the breezy libc afaik
<ogra> and its not even working right on breezy
<Mez> ogra :D we'll see if it builds first :D
<ogra> i would wait until its half way finished
<siretart> ah, ok. thanks for the cluebat
<ogra> before even trying to backport
<siretart> ogra: do you know whats the status about restricted modules?
<jsgotangco> hey all
<Hieronymus> hi
<tseng> hi jsgotangco
<ogra> its planned soon... but daniels is still busy with X afaik
<Mez> well ogra, for now I can fix a couple of problems that it'll hit when backporting
<siretart> great! :)
<Mez> like dbus-glib-1-dev -> libdbus-glib-1-dev change
<jsgotangco> why are you guys talking about work on a fine satuday morning/evening? *grin*
<Mez> lol
<tseng> yeah its cartoon time
<Mez> cause we dont have lives
<jsgotangco> i just watched Fantastic 4
<ogra> jsgotangco, because my GF wouldnt understand if i suddenly had time i could spend with her :)
<jsgotangco> nyahahaha
<tseng> masters of the universe is out on DVD
<tseng> speaking of cartoons
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> the old one?
<jsgotangco> jeezz i used to have a lot of skeletor stuff
<tseng> ya
<tseng> i had heman and his glider
<tseng> and some monsters
<jsgotangco> do you remember she-ra
<jsgotangco> that bastard spin off
<tseng> yes
<jsgotangco> did you watch the movie that had dolph lundgren heh
<tseng> no
<jsgotangco> i was a sucker for all antagonists back then
<jsgotangco> never bought the heroes at all
<Treenaks> antagonists rock
<jsgotangco> indeed
<jsgotangco> even in classic WWF hehe
<\sh> morning
<jsgotangco> hi
<siretart> hi \sh
<\sh> damn...only after a new install you know how many things you installed to get your system ready for working :(
<\sh> and now fixing wine
<Hieronymus> wine doesn't work with Breezy
<Treenaks> Hieronymus: yes, and it's Dependency Hell around there
<Hieronymus> torcs doesn't either, I just found out
* Hieronymus bug report
<\sh> that's the point...fixin b-d and deps first, and then let's see
<\sh> and I need something like ion3 with kde support to have all my shells in one window
<jsgotangco> ohh an Ion user as well
<\sh> not now...but it looks promising if ion3 supports some stuff to work nicely together with kde or gnome
<jsgotangco> i still find Ion3 too slow
<jsgotangco> is anyone aware of an official tux racer arcade game cabinet?
<jsgotangco> because i was in the arcades today and i saw one
<tseng> yes
<jsgotangco> ohh
<Hieronymus> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1324
<siretart> cu folks!
<siretart> gotta leave. cu tomorrow
<\sh> grmpf...wine ftbfs and bugzilla.redhat.com is down
<ogra> \sh, its likely we'll take the packages from winehq in the future... try them
<\sh> hmm...ok...trying actual release of winehq
<\sh> we should get mutt-ng in universe at least...it's rocking
<\sh> hmm...and xfs fs is not faster then reiserfs on a laptop
<ivoks> hi all
<DanielN> \sh, ping
<\sh> DanielN: pong
<DanielN> \sh, could you take a look at yehia pls? it FTBS and i'm stuck in fixing that :/
<\sh> DanielN: I'm preparing all this for this weekend..:( I have a lot of todos on my list :(
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i hope wifi-radar is on that list :)
<DanielN> \sh, uhh... sounds heavi ;>
<ivoks> DanielN: i have couple of minutes now
<DanielN> but thanks
<ivoks> maybe i could help you
<DanielN> ivoks, just get source (yehia) and pbuild it..
<ivoks> wher is it?
<DanielN> no idea about the error shown
<DanielN> ivoks, in the archive
<DanielN> i said i'm stuck ;)
<ivoks> archive?! FTBS and in archive?
<DanielN> with gcc4
<DanielN> !
<ivoks> uh
<\sh> DanielN: u have a log from your build? can u publish it somewhere?
<ivoks> that would be nice, yes
<ivoks> \sh: i could take care of this, if that's ok with you?
<\sh> ivoks: please :) any work removed from my list, is a good work ,-)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> uh... no time for pbuilder now... i'll check it with gcc-4
<DanielN> argh
<DanielN> where are these logs going?
<\sh> DanielN: pbuilder build <package>.dsc &> build.log
<ivoks> DanielN: source changed by Stephen Shirley <diamond@nonado.net>\
<ivoks> where are you in this picture?
<\sh> ivoks: he wanted to build it and change it for cxx
<ivoks> ah, ok
<\sh> ivoks: so there is no upload right now from daniel
<ivoks> ok
<DanielN> :>
<DanielN> as i forgot the meeting again :/
<ivoks> what meeting?
<DanielN> techb
<ivoks> hm, when was it?
<DanielN> last tuesday i think?
<ivoks> that was one with koffice/ooffice debate?
<\sh> last tuesday was CC, next week is TB again I think
<DanielN> don't know
<DanielN> ahh
<DanielN> yep..
<ivoks> ok...
<ivoks> build faild
<DanielN> void something
<DanielN> ...
<ivoks> destructor problem
<\sh> what?
<\sh> logs
<ivoks> warning: 'class Yehia::Script::Namespace' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
<DanielN> :>
<\sh> we need to get the virtserver fuer revu
<\sh> warning
<ivoks> yes, error is something else
<\sh> there must an error
<\sh> +be
<ivoks> error: 'node' was not declared in this scope
<\sh> aha
<\sh> check the file...what is node...
<\sh> this is really a small one I think
<DanielN> ahh
<DanielN> sorry guys
<DanielN> yeah.. this one i fixed already
<DanielN> but there's another after this one
<ivoks> ok...
<DanielN> wait i'll build it
<ivoks> ivalid use of void?
<DanielN> yeah.. something like that
<ivoks> paste..
<ivoks> 3 lines
<ivoks> void erase(iterator start, iterator end) {
<ivoks>       for (iterator it = start; it != end; ++it)
<ivoks>         G_Node<T>(g_node_unlink(it.node)); }
<DanielN> yep this one it is
<\sh> hmm...getting the source...
<\sh> what was the name of source again?
<ivoks> messy code
<ivoks> yehia
<DanielN> yehia
<\sh> ivoks: sourcefile?
<ivoks> yehia/node.h
<ivoks> line 96
<ivoks> bbl
<\sh> *shiver* templates and overloaded methods
<comadreja> hey, what does this mean ?
<comadreja> Candidates That Have Been Covered in Previous CC Meetings - need to show up
<comadreja>     *
<comadreja> the need to show up
<tseng> that means that they were on the agenda and didnt show up
<tseng> they need to come back
<DanielN> :)
<tseng> or take themselves off the list
<tseng> some people have been there for some time
<comadreja> and where do you have to show up ? :D
<tseng> uh, in the channel at the scheduled meeting time
<tseng> as mentioned on the agenda
<comadreja> oh, yes, I c
<\sh> hmmm...
<\sh> no bug reports at all for this
<DanielN> \sh, yeah.. i know
<\sh> and i doesn't look very active
<\sh> hmm..let me finish up with wine here
<\sh> *grmpf*
<Hieronymus> \sh: what are you doing with wine?
<\sh> Hieronymus: I'm building the new upstream version :)
<\sh> and some dirs and files moved
<\sh> so...third pbuilder try
<Hieronymus> it's not working right now, \sh
<Hieronymus> xlibmesa-glu :(
<\sh> Hieronymus: I fixed this already
<\sh> Hieronymus: it's only a build-deb thingy..easy to resolv
<Hieronymus> \sh: how? It still gives me an error
<Nafallo> Hieronymus: I belive \sh haven't uploaded yet...
<Hieronymus> okay. It's just that it breaks a lot of packages
<Hieronymus> which eh... sucks
<siretart> Hieronymus: replace build dep xlibmesa-glu-dev with libglu-dev-xorg
<Hieronymus> I really wouldn't know how to
* Hieronymus is not a dev
<\sh> Hieronymus: wine-0.0.200505xx ftbfs
<\sh> wine-0.0.20050628 not but it breaks some rules
<sivang> anybody an idea? I tried installing pbuilder:
<sivang> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<sivang>   udev: Depends: libselinux1 (>= 1.24) but it is not installed
<sivang> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
<sivang>  -> Aborting with an error
<sivang> how do I install -f inside pbuilder, better how do I chroot into it?
<sivang> siretart: ping
<Lathiat> sivang: theres a pbuildr command to drop you into a shell for manual surgery
<sivang> Lathiat: what'd be the commmand ? :-)
<Lathiat> man pbuilder ;p
<Lathiat> i forget
<sivang> Lathiat: no prob buddy, thanks
<sivang> Lathiat: btw, I see you alot around gnome channels, you a gnome dev?
<Lathiat> sivang: not really, few patches here and there
<sivang> Lathiat: cool, just like me, what programs?
<Lathiat> evolution was the thing i did the most on
<siretart> sivang: pong
<Lathiat> i have like a 5000 line patch for calenda rpublishign from a year ago i never finished
<sivang> siretart: I already got the answer :-) man pbuilder ;-)
<siretart> great :)
<sivang> siretart: thanks fore responding , though
<sivang> siretart: btw, I want to help with the Xorg modularization transaction, I need to do some motu as I'm aspiring to upload to main
<sivang> siretart: dhloback suggested it would me a good way to get back in :-)
<Lathiat> 'hack in' ?
<Lathiat> erg, back
<siretart> uuuh. sounds great :)
<sivang> siretart: (I was very active once before I started a a day job)
<sivang> I wonder if anybody here recall me
<Lathiat> your nick is familiar
<sivang> Lathiat: I lurk alot around #g-h, #g-l etc..
<siretart> sivang: I think I remember you. that was about 6 months ago, right?
<Lathiat> sivang: yeh maybe its g-h i recognize you from
<Lathiat> i need to fix bzflag
<Lathiat> now that i have mjy breezy install back i can do it
<Lathiat> stupid Xorg crap ;p
<sivang> siretart: actually, I stopped being daily active around 1,2 april
<siretart> ah
* siretart having a bad memory about times and dates :p
<sivang> siretart: no it's ok
<sivang> siretart: I saw revu , pretty cool , how do you operate it?
<siretart> sivang: do you think you could create a list of packages which need to be fixed because of this libglu-dev-xorg madness?
<siretart> sivang: ah, thanks.
<Lathiat> ooh, i think thats the problem bzflag had
<siretart> sivang: revu is written with mod-python, apache2 and postgres
<sivang> siretart: nice, postgres is awesome
<tseng> people keep saying taht
<Lathiat> i never liked it
<Lathiat> im a mysql fanboy
<Lathiat> for random php applications, it works good
<sivang> tseng: it's true brandon, mysql keeps me angry each time I try set it up
<tseng> yep
<Lathiat> never needed no extra performance, or real utf8, or some crpa
<siretart> Lathiat: yes. I uploaded sdlperl a few hours ago, got built on all architectures. It seems that libglu-dev-xorg depends on both glu and gl libraries
<sivang> Lathiat: hey, you work with PHP ?
<tseng> uh oh
<sivang> tseng: hehe
<sivang> no I won't start
<sivang> :-)
<tseng> :-(
<tseng> :-)
<Lathiat> sivang: yeh
<tseng> my stuff in mysql returns 1000 rows in 00.
<tseng> .008 seconds
<sivang> Lathiat: if you're interested in something, and you work on traditional server system environment , let me know
<tseng> im not sure it needs to be faster :)
<Lathiat> sivang: what you got in mind?
<siretart> sivang: you know how to use revu? we could use more reviewers ;)
<sivang> siretart: well, not really, I figured I'd ask you , and well, get some info about what needs be done on this X modularization transaction
<sivang> siretart: I also need to know what it's all about, where can I read about it?
<siretart> sivang: the basic problem was, that I didn't like doing reviewing stuff in the wiki. so I've written revu for replacing these pages
<siretart> sivang: basically everyone can upload who sends me his gpg key, all uploaders for universe have been imported
<sivang> siretart: you're the head of universe now?
<siretart> sivang: login is your email (the one in the Changed-By: field of the .changes file), account is created with first upload (use recover link, should work again)
<siretart> sivang: nono! I'm just a humble motu ;)
<siretart> sivang: head of universe are dholbach and ogra
<Mez> siretart  - that frozen-bubble was just a retard :D can you shove it up :D
<sivang> siretart: well, at least you're administrating the universe :-)
<siretart> Mez: huh? no upload necssary?
<Mez> siretart - frozen bubble means rebuilding
<siretart> sivang: not even, just writing a little helper tool to attract more potential motus ;)
<Mez> menas it needs a new XbuildY
<Mez> :D
<Mez> as shoved into REVU
<siretart> Mez: just rebuilding? sounds great :)
<Mez> well once the other stuff went through
* siretart not at home, so I cannot do any reviewing or uploading work
<Mez> kk
<sivang> siretart: but before that, I need to know what's happend with xorg that we need to do all this work, and how to test packages
<Lathiat> night all
<siretart> sivang: well. I'm not really sure about the details, but as far as I understood it, the libmesa-gl* package are obsoleted by lib{gl,glu}-dev and packages providing them
<siretart> sivang: in many cases it seems that changes these build dependencies to libglu-dev-xorg works
<siretart> s/changes/changing/
<sivang> siretart:  I see , sounds pretty easy
<siretart> sivang: packages can be tested quite well in an updated breezy pbuilder
<siretart> the problem is, that sbuild on the autobuilders have an other build dependency resolution algorithm, which seems to be a bit more picky than pbuilder-satisfybuilddepends.pl
<sivang> siretart: I see, so how you solve this problem?
<siretart> sivang: well, I don't see a really good solution, but usually, when I get an package built in pbuilder, I upload it
<siretart> sivang: if it fails to build, you can look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/ and look for the buildlog of the package
<seth_k> siretart: revu is for all packages to review, updated and rebuilt and new? Or just new ones :)
<siretart> normally the buildlog from sbuild gives enough information to fix the remaining dependency issues
<siretart> seth_k: I consider revu as a launchpad for your motu carreer ;) - basically I think it should be used for any uploads
<seth_k> siretart: woot, /me goes over to revu and finds the link to send you his gpg key
<siretart> seth_k: in fact, updated packages (uploads without the lamp) should get uploaded more quickly, because only one advocate is needed (for NEW ones, we require 3 advocates). Any uploader to universe may advocate
<seth_k> siretart: that should make it a lot easier for me to push updated packages over, i always was hunting for someone to bother (ask)
<seth_k> thanks much :)
<siretart> seth_k: please upload only packages to revu that you think should be uploaded to ubuntu "as is". (think of uploading upload candidates)
<seth_k> yes, I understand. Final packages, ready-to-submit
<siretart> revu2 will name "uploads" "candidates"
<sivang> siretart: I upload into revu? I'm confused
<siretart> sivang: on the top there is a link to the wiki page giving instructions how to configure dput to upload to revu
<seth_k> final question: since auto-importing from debian is frozen, should any updated packages we want in universe (e.g., backports people are screaming for gdesklets 0.35 to enter breezy), I should submit that to revu? Or will universe updates still occur automatically and I shouldn't worry about it
<\sh> seth_k: universe is not frozen, only syncing...but ping elmo to sync whatever universe package u want to have..there is a wiki page for elmos info...
* \sh forgot the name
<siretart> MOTUToSync
<siretart> I think
<sivang> siretart: so nobody uploads to straight canonical server anymore for universe?
<siretart> err, huh?
<seth_k> got it, but that's only for packages that get imported straight from upstream? if they need rebuilt b/c of Ubuntu-specific changes, go through revu?
<sivang> siretart: I mean, the upload has to go through your server first for review?
<\sh> siretart: thx :)
<siretart> sivang: well, revu is not required in any way. think of it rather as a small tool for simplifying reviewing work
<sivang> siretart: ok, cool
<sivang> siretart: I hope you got enough space over that server of yours :-)
<sivang> siretart: also, can you help with setting up pbuilder?
<sivang> siretart: it won't even let me login
<siretart> sivang: there is a very good wiki page explaining how to setup a breezy pbuilder
<sivang> siretart: I used it, but I Have problme past that setup
<sivang> siretart: create fails for me
<chrissturm> sivang, you need to create a hoary chroot first
<chrissturm> and then update to breezy
<siretart> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<sivang> chrissturm: I tried creating breezy chroot straight away, why is it wrong?
<sivang> chrissturm: (I replaced all occurenses of hoary with breezy on the first setup_
<sivang> )
<chrissturm> sivang: that works for some, and fails for others
<chrissturm> sivang: dont do that, just follow the wiki
<siretart> seth_k: err, don't confuse upstream with debian or the real upstream of the software
<chrissturm> sivang, it replaces hoary with breezy later
<sivang> chrissturm: ok, then it's download and configuring the pakcages all over from scratch again :-(
<siretart> seth_k: we stopped the autoimporting of packages from our upstream (debian)
<seth_k> yes, I understand the difference
<seth_k> siretart, \sh, thanks so much :) you guys are most helpful
<chrissturm> sivang: not neccesarily
<chrissturm> sivang: go replace breezy with hoary in your pbuilder conf
<chrissturm> and try
<siretart> seth_k: if a package has an new upstream version with important bugfixes, there is no problem updating the package
<chrissturm> it will reuse the debs you already have
<comadreja> sivang : you have to first pbuilder create with hoary, have you done so ?
<seth_k> siretart: and running it through motutosync, or revu? :/ motutosync ONLY if there are no changes from debian?
<chrissturm> and it will install a strange breezy/hoary hybrid, which doensnt matter because you upgrade it straight afterwards
<siretart> what is motusync?
<seth_k> MOTUToSync
<seth_k> the wiki page
<siretart> aah.
<siretart> if you want to import an updated package from debian, no upload is necessary
<siretart> revu is only for upload sponsoring
<sivang> chrissturm: ok, I'll try. Are you also en experienced debian packager?
<seth_k> so bottom line = if you have to touch the package once it's come over from debian, it should use REVU. Got it :) no more bothering you... for now ;)
<seth_k> thanks again siretart
<chrissturm> sivang: sorry, not yet :D
<sivang> chrissturm: that's ok, me neither :-)
<chrissturm> sivang, its just how i got my pbuilder running ;)
<sivang> chrissturm: ok, I will try that now
<chrissturm> how do i find out who is responsible for a universe package?
<chrissturm> some ruby libs need some work
<tseng> no one is responsible for ruby afaik
<tseng> if you want to start fixing bugs, go ahead
<siretart> :)
<sistpoty> Hi all
<tseng> chrissturm: ^
<siretart> huhu sistpoty :)
<tseng> chrissturm: im pretty excited about rails :P
<chrissturm> tseng: me too
<chrissturm> ruby should go to main
<chrissturm> tseng,  i have already 2 sites in production with rails
<chrissturm> http://packages.qa.debian.org/libr/librmagick-ruby.html
<tseng> what am i looking at
<chrissturm> tseng ^ this package is broken, it has very nasty bugs
<chrissturm> tseng: but to fix it it must be upgraded to latest upstream version
<tseng> which is in debian, or isnt in debian?
<chrissturm> i think it isnt
<tseng> well, you should know these things :)
<tseng> if you want to fix
<chrissturm> http://packages.qa.debian.org/libr/librmagick-ruby.html <== shouldnt this display the latest version thats in debian?
<tseng> it does
<tseng> that doesnt mean anything to me, however
<chrissturm> thats a way to old version
<tseng> (how should i know that)
<chrissturm> rmagick is always tied to a imagemagick version
<tseng> ok well i also see on this page
<chrissturm> and the rmagick for the imagemagick in breezy is 1.8.3
<tseng> that only one bug is open
<tseng> against the package
<chrissturm> dunno what imagemagick debian uses
<tseng> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=287140
<tseng> ok slow down :)
<tseng> id like to help you, but you need to do your own homework
<chrissturm> if they have the correct version it will work for them. in breezy we would need 1.8.3
<siretart> chrissturm: do you think you could prepare a package?
<tseng> Package: imagemagick (6:6.2.3.1-1, 6:6.2.3.0-2, 6:6.0.6.2-2.4, 5:5.5.7.9-1.1)
<tseng> from packages.debian.org
<tseng> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/graphics/imagemagick
<chrissturm> so what process do i need to follow?
<siretart> ok, I'm off for today.
<chrissturm> the problem is not that the package is too old for my taste, its that its broken
<siretart> see you tomorrow!
<chrissturm> bey
<chrissturm> bye
<seth_k> bye siretart
<tseng> thats fine but its better to fix it in debian if its broken there
<tseng> in either case you need to update the package to suit you
<tseng> and get it reviewed : http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/
<tseng> that would be a fine first step.
<chrissturm> ok, the i will just do that
<chrissturm> i would like to have all ruby and rails components that make sense in ubuntu
* sivang  is creating a hoary chroot now
<tseng> chrissturm: awesome
<tseng> chrissturm: have you worked with debian packages before?
<chrissturm> tseng, not yet
<tseng> ok well
<tseng> will you be around for awhile
<tseng> i need 10 minutes for lunch
<chrissturm> if we dont manage today i will be here always the next week
<tseng> ok
<tseng> bbiaf
<chrissturm> i have the 1.6.0 source deb and the 1.8.3 tar file
<tseng> ok
<tseng> is the source deb unpacked?
<chrissturm> yep.
<tseng> ok cd into the source deb
<tseng> and run uupdate -u ../foo-1.8.3.tar.gz
<chrissturm> ok, now i got rejects
<tseng> fun
<chrissturm> cd into the new directory?
<tseng> uh
<tseng> i guess
<tseng> rejects mean the old package did something nasty
<tseng> changes files outside of debian/
<tseng> you can cd and try to fix it if youd like
<chrissturm> i think it patched the makefile
<chrissturm> i will just remove this patch
<tseng> k
<sivang> boy, it's a slow process to make a pbuilder chroot
<tseng> not really
<Nafallo> is it?
<Nafallo> not with a local mirror it isn't ;-)
<sivang> we don't have a local mirror ter
<sivang> yet
<sebest> hello i have a question about package request
<sebest> there is a package that i'd like to have in universe, it's already written for another distro (kanotix)
<sebest> should i post it in REVU ?
<chrissturm> tseng: now the uupdate worked
<tseng> good
<tseng> now in the updated dir
<tseng> dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<sivang> :-(
<sivang> pbuilder faild again
<tseng> you might need to install some things
<sivang> even when hoaryized
<sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
<sivang>  dhcp3-client
<sivang>  hotplug
<sivang>  udev
<sivang>  ubuntu-minimal
<sivang>  ubuntu-base
<sistpoty> sebest: did you package it?
<sebest> sistpoty: no
<sebest> i found it there: http://kanotix.com/files/debian/acerhk/
<sivang> tseng: what sort of things?
<tseng> sivang: not you
<chrissturm> sivang: if you want to be on the sure side, replace breezy with hoary in your pbuilder copy of the sources.list
<sebest> sistpoty : this a really simple package for hotkeys on laptop, only one kernel module
<tseng> a kernel module is hardly simple
<sivang> chrissturm: so I have to log into pbulder right?
<chrissturm> sivang: nope
<sebest> tseng what do you mean?
<chrissturm> sivang, the wiki told you to copy your apt directory
<tseng> sebest: i mean that every time the kernel abi changes we need to rebuild your module
<sistpoty> sebest: i just took a look ;)
<tseng> sebest: or it wont work
<sebest> it's not my module
<tseng> ...
<sivang> chrissturm: ok, I'll see what's there inside those files I copied
<tseng> in any case, it creates alot of extra work
<tseng> as its own package
<chrissturm> sivang, you need to change sources.list to point to hoary
<sivang> chrissturm: k
<tseng> you'll want to file a bug for the kernel guys to look at including it
<sebest> tseng i get your point, i just mean that for a kernel module, it's simple
<tseng> its not :)
<chrissturm> tseng: it fails now because it doenst run configure before trying to execute make. what file do i need to change?
<sebest> ok ok
<tseng> chrissturm:
<tseng> was configure added between 1.6 and 1.8?
<chrissturm> tseng: i dunno
<tseng> bah
<tseng> i guess i'd have to see the rules file
<chrissturm> i never built the 1.6 package
<tseng> one second
<sivang> chrissturm: done
<chrissturm> sivang: then try pbuilder build again
<tseng> +config.status: configure
<tseng> +	dh_testdir
<tseng> +	RUBY=/usr/bin/$(RUBY) ./configure --host=$(DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE) --build=$(DEB_BUILD_GNU_TYPE) --prefix=/usr
<sebest> tseng, is it different if it's a source package ?
<tseng> sebest: yes
<sebest> i think it is
<tseng> it runs configure, dudes
<sebest> acerhk-source_0.5.25-6_i386.deb is a source package right?
<tseng> sounds like it
<tseng> no that a source package for a kernel sounds terribly useful
<sebest> i don't know the details, i just know that the module is terribly usefull for me :)
<sebest> so i just wanted to know the best way to see it appearing in ubuntu :)
<tseng> so can you file a bug to include it in our kernel like i said
<tseng> with a link to the driver homepage
<sebest> oki i will, i'm just always affraid to go in bugzilla
<chrissturm> bugzilla is your friend
<sebest> bugzilla is frightening :)
<sebest> it's so user unfriendly :s
<chrissturm> sebest, it will be obsolete soon
<chrissturm> malone is your even better friend
* chrissturm likes trac
<chrissturm> tseng: i managed to build the dev
<chrissturm> deb
* chrissturm tries it on his other system
<tseng> chrissturm: yeah? you are quick
<chrissturm> actually i just did what you told me, ignored the error message, and then built the *.dsc with pbuilder
<tseng> ah man
<tseng> nice work :)
<tseng> what was the error btw
<sebest> tseng: sorry to ask a stupid question, but to which package should i assign the bug? there are many kernel*
<tseng> sebest: linux-kernel
<chrissturm> it didnt find some makefile targets. but it continued
<chrissturm> sebest, linux is the package
<tseng> we should fix that
<tseng> that might have been part of the patch?
<chrissturm> tseng: the patch was just changing a compiler option form c99 to gnuc99
<tseng> ah
<chrissturm> tseng, i found it was obsoleted by gcc4
<chrissturm> at least
<tseng> :)
<tseng> and you said you never worked with this stuff before
<chrissturm> and since i successfully built the source tgz yesterday
<tseng> fooled me.
<chrissturm> tseng: its my first deb
<chrissturm> but i am doing coding for 22 years
<tseng> :)
<tseng> i havent even been alive for 22 years
* chrissturm is 32
<\sh> chrissturm: coding for 22 years for propietary software? *shrug*
<chrissturm> gotta prepare food, ttyl
<chrissturm> \sh only open source stuff for the last years
<tseng> bye, have fun with your new deb
<chrissturm> thx
<tseng> im sure ill see you later
<sebest> chrissturn: i did it, i hope i did it weel it # 12564
<chrissturm> yep
* \sh is 34 and has >=15 years for OSS 
* sistpoty is feeling young again :)
<\sh> -for+of
<comadreja> I have a suggestion for pbuilder...
<comadreja> if it fails on create should leave on the harddrive the downloaded files
<comadreja> the base system
<comadreja> \sh ping
<pef> hello
<sistpoty> hi pef
<pef> which version is mostly used by ubuntu developers here ? hoary or breezy ?
<Hieronymus> pef: probably breezy, since that is development version
<Treenaks> but if you don't know how to fix horrible problems, you shouldn't try it for yourself just yet
<sivang> chrissturm: ok, seems it's done but I got:
<sivang>     -> removing directory /var/cache/pbuilder/build//13926 and its subdirectories
<sivang> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//13926/dev': Device or resource busy
<sivang> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//13926/.dev': Device or resource busy
<sivang> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//13926': Directory not empty
<sivang> Treenaks: I'm using breezy, it's not that bad :-)
<sistpoty> there i can fully agree :) (hope that restricted-modules will be in there soon, cause nvidia-glx comes from these)
<sivang> sistpoty: well, I'm not using nvidia-glx at the moment :-)
* sistpoty not either
<sivang> (I figured it's not that bad to live without accelereaction
<Treenaks> sivang: so am I, but it's a bit weird at times
<sivang> Treenaks: true
<sivang> anywya, I just logged into my pbuilder chroot
<sistpoty> sivang: it is, if you want to play games ;)
<Treenaks> sivang: I'm lucky I learned how apt/dpkg worked at my last job :)
<Treenaks> sivang: (semi-internally)
<sivang> Treenaks: you're not working there anymore? where do you work now?
<Treenaks> got to love hacking in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ to get your apt to work again
<Treenaks> sivang: last job = where I worked for 5 years, left a year ago
<Treenaks> sivang: a) it didn't pay very well; b) boss tended to be an asshole at times
<sivang> Treenaks: ah :-)
<sivang> Treenaks: you by any chance know anything about that pbuilder errors I'm getting?
<Treenaks> pbuiler is nice :)
<Treenaks> device or resource busy!?!!
<Treenaks> is it on a separate mount?
<Treenaks> is something still mounted from inside the chroot?
<sivang> Treenaks: no :-)
<Treenaks> (udev?)
<Treenaks> udev mounts stuff..
<sivang> Treenaks: could have been
<sivang> seems ok now
<sivang> I now get only:
<sivang> Copying back the cached apt archive contents
<sivang> find: warning: you have specified the -maxdepth option after a non-option argument -name, but options are not positional (-maxdepth affects tests specified before it as well as those specified after it).  Please specify options before other arguments.
<Treenaks> wow.. never had that
<sivang> I guess it has somewrong  execution args to find
<Treenaks> sounds like your chroot is b0rken
<sivang> ah :-(
<sivang> that's the third time today I tried creating it
<sivang> people around here told me to start with the hoary chroot, and then upgrade to breezy
<Treenaks> yes that works best
<sivang> Treenaks: now, do I alwasy work as only root in pbuilder? don't I need any other account?
<Treenaks> sivang: I don't work inside pbuilder
<Treenaks> sivang: I just prepare source packages, and sudo pbuilder
<sivang> Treenaks: ah ok
<sivang> Treenaks: what stuff are you working on these days?
<Treenaks> sivang: evil perl scripts still
<sivang> Treenaks: for ubuntu or for work?
<Treenaks> sivang: for work
<Treenaks> sivang: oh and taking lots of pictures
<sivang> Treenaks: hehe
<sivang> now, may I dist-upgrad inside pbuilder to get a breezy chroot?
<Treenaks> sivang: no, there's a procedure on the wiki
<Treenaks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto -> "Upgrading to Breezy"
<sivang> oops
<sivang> I already started it
<sivang> taking as if it's a real chroot
<sivang> better ctrl+c it now
<Treenaks> yes
<sistpoty> gotta go... cya
<comadreja> linux 256 bit wep keylinux 256 bit wep key
<comadreja> what's the channel/mailing-list for ubuntu/GNOME
<Treenaks> comadreja: #ubuntu ?
<Treenaks> btw, we're not a search engine :)
<comadreja> :) hehe yep, I've got problems with my touchpad, gotta report it
<Hieronymus> ubotu is the search engine
<ivoks> hi
<pef> ivoks: hi
<pef> siretart: i'va got a little problem with my revu password, I didn't received it at my first upload  as specified in your email ;)
<pef> bye !
#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-15
<HostingGeek> BOOO!
<pef> hello
<siretart> moin
<siretart> pef: ping
<pef> siretart: pong
<siretart> pef: what is your email adress you using in revu?
<pef> siretart: the adress I used to sign my package ?
<siretart> yes. I don't know who you are in the database :)
<pef> siretart: loic@dev.erodia.net
<siretart> pef: ok, try this as login, then press the recover password link
<pef> siretart: works perfectly, thank you :)
<siretart> :)
<sivang> howdy motus
<sivang> how is it going?
<siretart> hi :)
* siretart needs more bandswith :)
<Nafallo> siretart: we all do ;-)
<siretart> I thought so :)
<siretart> Lathiat: ping
<siretart> sivang: check out this one: grep-dctrl -FBuild-Depends xlibmesa-gl-dev Sources-breezy -sPackage,Build-Depends
<siretart> (with Source-breezy being http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/{main,universe}/source/Sources.gz unpacked and concatenated
<ivoks> 'day
<dholbach> hellas
<ivoks> hi dholbach
* ivoks needs an advice
<ivoks> i'm planing to develop gtk backup utility
<ivoks> what do you think, is it easier/better to do it with perl or python?
<Lathiat> python of course
<ivoks> ok
<dholbach> python :)
<dholbach> hey vedran
<vedran> ok :)
<vedran> hey
<ivoks> vedran: hm...
<ivoks> bih :)
<vedran> yes
<ivoks> ok, i hope i'll finish it beffore summer end
<ivoks> shouldn't be too much problems with that...
<dholbach> ivoks: that sounds awesome
<ivoks> evenutally, i'm planing to create some integration with bacula
<ivoks> but that will not be finished this year :)
<vedran> i'm using the debian maintainers guide
<vedran> but i have problem with part "modifying"
<vedran> that's way to complicated
<vedran> is there any simpler way
<ivoks> vedran: ako hoces, mogu ti ja pomoci... lakse ce ti biti shvatiti hrvatski, mozda :)
<dholbach> vedran: what goes wrong?
<ogra> guys, vedran works on the lightweight desktop bounty for us...
<ogra> :-D
<ivoks> ogra: hi
<vedran> plz wait a sec
<ogra> hey ivoks
<ivoks> ogra: that's that guy from bosnia you were telling me?
<ogra> ivoks, yes
<ogra> :)
<ivoks> ok
<vedran> it mentions file /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README.Debian.gz
<ivoks> since we talk same language, i could give him a help
<vedran> there's a line that says export BLAHBLAH =? blahblah i don't have it here
<vedran> it doesn't work
<ogra> with great plans like working desktops on p1 133/32MB :)
<dholbach> vedran: if you tell us what you're trying to do, we can try to help :)
<ivoks> ogra: but...
<ivoks> ubuntu doesn't install on so little RAM
<vedran> i'm trying to compile library libefltk
<vedran> (http://ede.sf.net)
<ivoks> i tried on 40MB RAM
<ivoks> installer crashes
<ogra> ivoks, yes, the installer probably needs some adjustment if possible...
<ogra> its a Kamion question
<ivoks> woody's one works...
<vedran> autotools doc says: export DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE ?= ($shell dkpg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE)
<ivoks> installer should format swap partition and use it :)
<vedran> dholback: this command doesn't work
<vedran> @dholbach sorry
<vedran> ivoks: i agree... ubuntulite installer does exactly that
<vedran> ivoks: www.ubuntulite.org
<ogra> vedran, they should provide a filelist...
<ogra> i had to download the iso to find outwhat they ship
<dholbach> vedran: you're sure you need this?
<vedran> ogra: that's true... installer needs work
<ogra> and it contains the complete kde desktop....
<ivoks> ubuntulite... with kde :)
<ogra> heh, yes
<vedran> lol
<ogra> i think its only for the kde apps, but the libs should suffice there :)
<ivoks> hm...
<ogra> no need for the whole desktop
<ivoks> vedran needs help
<ogra> absolutely, he will have to repackage a few things and there will be new packages for ede
<vedran> yes, just ede is new
<vedran> but i'm new to dpkg...
<dholbach> vedran: you could try to use the default-debian/rules dh_make provides you with
<dholbach> (or use cdbs, which does this automagically)
<ivoks> lol
<dholbach> but anyway, i should get back to my other stuff
<ivoks> ok guys
<ivoks> wifi-radar still isn't in breezy :)
<vedran> tnx dholbach
<dholbach> ivoks: it's a shame
<ivoks> well, do something :)
<dholbach> ivoks: i gave you my signature
<ivoks> i know
<ivoks> ogra: ?
<dholbach> PEOPLE: PLEASE REVIEW STUFF ON REVU! NOW!
<dholbach> ivoks: better? :)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> dholbach: make it mandatory :)
<ogra> ivoks, ?
<ivoks> ogra: could you review wifi-radar on revu?
<dholbach> "If you sign this treaty, you're a MOTU, but take into account: you will have to review at least three packages a week or *horrible scenario* will happen."
<ivoks> :>
<siretart> lol
<ogra> dholbach, 3 a week O_O
<ivoks> ok 3 a day :)
<ogra> lol
<ivoks> well, someone of us don't have life :)
<dholbach> ok... ivoks: you remind me of something: i'll get back to my thesis, so i'll be able to do more reviews soon
<ivoks> dholbach: go work on that, that's more important
<dholbach> and i only have 5-1 weeks left
<ogra> hmm, other people say 4 instead of 5-1......
<ogra> this thesis has a bad influence....
<dholbach> 5 weeks but one week i'll have no time :/
<ivoks> omg, ede looks too much like windows
<ogra> oh, i was worried you would start saying yesterday+2 instead of tomorrow soon.... :)
<ogra> ivoks, hey, but works with ultrasmall footprint
<vedran> ivoks: and why is that bad ;)
<ivoks> ogra: could be, didn't try it
<ivoks> vedran: couse windows is bad UI
<ivoks> cause even
<ivoks> vedran: khm..
<tiglionabbit> ogra: but that's ambiguous.  What if people assumed that to mean 3 days ago?
<ivoks> but there is ede debian package
<vedran> ivoks: there is??!?
<vedran> ivoks: it may be bad but it's what most people know
<vedran> and are easy to switch to
<ivoks> yep, but it isn't ede you are talking about :)
<ivoks> this is editor :)(
<ogra> tiglionabbit, hmm, shouldnt that be yesterday-2 ?
<vedran> give my grandma ede and she'll at least know where to click
<vedran> unlike xfce or windomaker
<tiglionabbit> ogra: it depends on what is the positive direction.  It could be relative to the direction you're traveling, or to the direction time travels itself
<ogra> phew :)
<ivoks> khm...
<ivoks> vedran: ok, you should then create metapackage that will install ede or icewm
<dholbach> guys look at this:
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$ LC_ALL=C apt-cache -i unmet | grep ^Package | wc -l
<dholbach> 521
<dholbach> daniel@bert:~$
<dholbach> !!!OUCH!!!
<ivoks> uh
<dholbach> (it's on amd64, but still...)
<ivoks> 515 on i386
<Lathiat> 497 here
<ivoks> huh?
<ogra> dholbach, 576 on i386 afaik
<dholbach> Lathiat: maybe without multiverse
<siretart> in hoary thats 75
<Lathiat> eww we released with packages with unmet deps? ugly ;p
<ivoks> there is unmet in hoary?!
<Lathiat> i have multiverse
<ogra> but thats all only rebuild stuff...
<ivoks> we suck
<ivoks> :)
<dholbach> Lathiat: get cracking with us and we'll beat it down to zero
<comadreja> have launchpad users keys been added to revu ?
<Lathiat> sounds like a plan
<dholbach> ogra: not only
* Lathiat generates a list of big unmets
<dholbach> comadreja: don't think so
<ogra> dholbach, according to doko it is...
<ivoks> even blender has unmet
<siretart> comadreja: no revu is not related to launchpad in any way..
<siretart> yet, perhaps ;)
<dholbach> ogra: most of them surely are trivial to fix (rebuild, new build-dep)
<comadreja> siretart : could be good, I guess
<dholbach> ogra: but some are hard work (like the 75 we left out in hoary)
<ivoks> dholbach: these are packages mostly broken cause of X
<siretart> comadreja: yes, that would be nice
<comadreja> siretart : I'm gonna register as uploader
<SloMo_> when packaging a mono/cli package where do the .exe files belong to? /usr/lib/dotnet/bin and cli-wrapper links in /usr/bin?
<Lathiat> kdelibs4 has lots
<siretart> great! :)
<Lathiat> and lam4, som ekernel-image-2.4.27s
<dholbach> ivoks: we should compile a list on UniverseUnmetDeps and get cracking :)
<ogra> dholbach, we left them outr in hoary and nobody complained ?
<Lathiat> avifile, clanlib (c++, unmet builds?), libfltk1.1c102
<ivoks> dholbach: that should be prio, yes
<dholbach> ogra: yep
<Lathiat> gsal1, lots of libgmp3
<ivoks> dholbach: can we eliminate main packages?
<Lathiat> lots of gtkmm too
<dholbach> ivoks: yeah
<Lathiat> and lots of libqt3c102-mt
<ogra> dholbach, so it looks like nobody needs them :)
<dholbach> ogra: you know that we're not supposed to chuck out stuff too easily
<ogra> dholbach, nope, but if no user cares... i do set it on high prio
<dholbach> ogra: high prio to chuck out?
<ogra> dont, sorry
<comadreja> siretart : is this your current key ?
<comadreja> (2)     Reinhard Tartler <siretart@tauware.de>
<comadreja>           1024 bit DSA key 945348A4, created: 2005-02-12
<siretart> comadreja: yes, this is my key
<comadreja> siretart : thanks
* dholbach nods towards ogra
<siretart> SloMo_: there is a mono packaging policy in debian, perhaps thats the document you should look into
<Lathiat> ask tseng about that
<Lathiat> heh has a new one no idea if its released yet
<dholbach> ivoks: last time i sorted the lists a bit, i made categories for non-free stuff, kernel stuff, x stuff, java stuff, ... it'll be easier for us and for other guys (java team, kernel team, ...) to get cracking on those
<siretart> SloMo_: try http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/  and http://wiki.debian.net/?MonoConventions
<siretart> SloMo_: but please get confirmation from tseng that these documents are also valid in breezy, I think so, but he is our authority ;)
<ivoks> dholbach: i'm reading mans to figure out how to sort these things :)
<dholbach> ivoks: :( i did it manually
<dholbach> ivoks: but i became VERY FAST with it ;)
<ivoks> lol no way
<ivoks> :)
<SloMo_> siretart: yes i read them... and they're deprecated in favor of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CLIPolicy... but there is nothing written about that problem ;)
<dholbach> ivoks: but it'll be nice for motu hopefuls to get into the team by doing those simple things
<dholbach> it's a nice feeling to fix 20 packages by just some fingerstrokes :)
<ivoks>  apt-cache -i unmet | grep ^Package | cut -d' ' -f2
<siretart> comadreja: do did not sign your message, whats your key?
<comadreja> I am not maintainer, but I have updated the kismet package to latest upstream version. Should I proceed to revu ?
<siretart> comadreja: if you want to contribute a package for ubuntu, you can upload an candidate to review
<comadreja> thanks siretart
<siretart> comadreja: which will be uploaded if ok
<siretart> comadreja: but I need your keyid
<comadreja> siretart : oops
<ivoks> dholbach: but this aren't all broken packages
<ivoks> dholbach: take a look at blender
<comadreja> 5D7ACDEF
<dholbach> i can't install it
<ivoks> dholbach: bledner isn't on list, and yet, it's not possible to install it
<dholbach> oh well
<comadreja> siretart : or should I send the message again ?
<siretart> comadreja: I added you to the keyring. upload a package, then a account will be created
<dholbach> ivoks: so we have MORE THAN 521 broken packages - MORE FUN! :)
<ivoks> :)
<siretart> comadreja: use the "recover password" link to learn your password
<siretart> need to go now,
<siretart> cu folks!
<ivoks> half of breezy is broken
<comadreja> siretart: thanks a lot, bye !
<dholbach> bye siretart
<dholbach> ivoks: you could use python-apt for the job :)
<ogra> ivoks, i have to care for blander for edubuntu anyway.... so if nobody wants to touch it, leave it for me...
<ogra> blender even
<ivoks> ogra: blender was example how that list doesn't show us all broken deps :)
<ogra> ivoks, yes, there are a lot others :)
<ivoks> jesus... we have more than 500 broken packages
<ivoks> that's much more than cxx transition
<ivoks> :)
<dholbach> welcome to life :)
<ivoks> yay! :))
<ivoks> but some of them could be easily fixed
<dholbach> that's why we need a fiery speech every morning to get more MOTU activists in the boat ;)
* ogra dives back into xscreensaver hacking... too many depressive words here 
<ivoks> if package that replaced libglu1, provides libglu1 :)
<ogra> ivoks, fix it :)
<ivoks> it's main
<dholbach> that's alright
<comadreja> what's the name of the program used to upload a package ?
<dholbach> comadreja: dput
<comadreja> thanks
<dholbach> comadreja: wiki.ubuntu.com/Uploads might be of help
<dholbach> comadreja: wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU too
<ogra> ivoks, and ? patches accepted ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks>  universe
<ivoks> 
<ivoks> mesa
<ivoks> 
<ivoks> libglu1-mesa
<ivoks> 
<ivoks> libglu1c2-mesa
<ivoks> 
<ivoks> mesa_6.2.1-5ubuntu1
<ivoks> uh, pardon for that
<dholbach> hehe
<ivoks> so, i guess... we should convert every app
<ivoks> or repackage libglu1c2?
<ivoks> anyway... i have to go now..
<dholbach> i'm away again... :/
<comadreja> I have uploaded a package to revu... should I ask for revision ?
<thesaltydog> how can avoid (during buildpackage) to generate config.log and config.status files? Otherwise tehy will be included in source directory and in diff.gz...
<ogra> build-depend on autotools-dev and copy them over....
<thesaltydog> ok! nice.. Thanks.
<dholbach> ogra: you mean config.{sub,guess} ?
<ogra> dholbach, yes
<dholbach> thesaltydog: remove them in clean target?
<dholbach> ogra: he was talking about config.{log,status}
<thesaltydog> yes, too..
<ogra> dh_make should have added a stanza ...
<ogra> ah, ok, blind me then
<thesaltydog> telephone..
<thesaltydog> dholbach, yes, I think that removing them in dh_clean will be easier.
<thesaltydog> dholbach, oh oh... I just had a "clock-skew" warning...
<thesaltydog> dholbach, ??
<dholbach> in the clean target
<dholbach> clock-skew?
<dholbach> no idea
<thesaltydog> dholbach, yes, just before dh_clean..
<sivang> hey ogra_ ,dholbach
<dholbach> hi sivang, \sh :)
<\sh> *handandenkopfhalt* morgen
<\sh> oh...hehe..sorry
* \sh is not updated enough this mornin...
<dholbach> \sh: selbst schuld
<dholbach> (judging by your blog entry)
<dholbach> \sh: or am i wrong? :)
<\sh> the problem is: until this time, I was quite ok...and no spinnings at all...but at 5 this morning
<\sh> i think the last koelsch...
<dholbach> haha
<dholbach> the last of 24
<\sh> it's ok ... one day in the month i need a hard reset of /dev/brain
<\sh> btw...did anybody tried out vmware ws on breezy?
<\sh> i need a possibility to try the daily installs
<ogra> dholbach, 24 ? pick a higher number :-P
<\sh> it was less then 24
<comadreja> koelsch that's delicious !
<\sh> 4 bottles I saw in the fridge just now
<comadreja> I remember a place... called the Frh (could that be?)
<\sh> yeah it was Frh Koelsch ;)
<comadreja> near the cathedral
<comadreja> you lucky !
<thesaltydog> dholbach, I noticed that in the clean target the command -$(MAKE) clean is not executed. Object files (.o) are still in src diectory.
<\sh> brb
<dholbach> thesaltydog: what does running   make clean   manually give you?
<thesaltydog> it works fine!
<dholbach> hrm
<dholbach> drop the "-" and have a look what it gives you?
<thesaltydog> it says cannot fakeroot..
<thesaltydog> debuild: fatal error at line 841:
<thesaltydog> couldn't exec fakeroot debian/rules:
<dholbach> you could try to update-alternatives and change to another fakeroot
<thesaltydog> I will try
<thesaltydog> another fakeroot?
<thesaltydog> dholbach, fixed.
<thesaltydog> I was removing config.status before make clean. Just swapped lines. Now it goes! Thanks a lot!
<dholbach> thesaltydog: dont forget to add the "-" again
<thesaltydog> yes
<dholbach> excellent
<\sh> hmm..the kernel of breezy is compiled with 3.4?
<dholbach> yes, i think so
<ogra> yep
<\sh> I'm trying to get vmware ws running...so I can test a bit more
<\sh> brb
<Treenaks> Can I make a lirc upload with a small build-dep fix?
<ogra> Treenaks, why not ? youre a MOTU...
<ogra> youre supposed to fix things :)
<Treenaks> yes
<Treenaks> but UpstreamVersionFreeze etc.
<ogra> so its a new upstream version ?
<Treenaks> no, just build-deps
<ogra> thats not affectzed then ... UVF is intended to fix existing packages and not get new crack in... so exactly what you want here
<ogra> thus "Upstream"VersionFreeze
<Treenaks> OK
<Treenaks> yes, but just to be sure etc :)
<Treenaks> I don't want to be chased by a mad Elmo ;)
<ogra> he's in .fi he cant get is hands on you from there ;)
<Treenaks> ogra: he might stop by on the way back
<ogra> heh
<siretart> hi folks
<comadreja> hello siretart
* ogra wonders if someone recognized dilys in #ubuntu-bugs
<jsgotangco> salut
<tseng> slomo: no
<tseng> slomo: /usr/share/dotnet is deprecated (and this is mentioned in our CLIPolicy)
<tseng> slomo: put the stuff where upstream does
<slomo> tseng: so the .exe files and the cli-wrapper links will live side-by-side in /usr/bin ;) thanks, will do that
<tseng> slomo: no?
<tseng> they wont
<tseng> .exe does NOT go in /usr/bin
<tseng>  /usr/lib/muine/muine.exe
<tseng>  /usr/lib/tomboy/Tomboy.exe
<tseng> etc
<slomo> yes when the upstream buildsystem does it that way... but that isn't the case with nemerle. they put the .exe in the bindir which is /usr/bin when not specified otherwise
<tseng> (what does cli-wrapper have to do with this?)
<tseng> well in that case they are wrong
<tseng> would you and the maintainer like to join #debian-mono?
<tseng> meebey maintains monodevelop, he is probably also interested in what you do with it
<slomo> ok, and what will be the right way to package it? (and cli-wrapper was used to create the binaries without .exe suffix in /usr/bin)
<tseng> well what every other package i work with does
<tseng> is make /usr/lib/foo/foo.exe
<tseng> and put a shell script in /usr/bin
<tseng> that properly sets up the evironment and calls mono on the exe
<slomo> so the best would be to create a patch for the buildsystem and send it upstream? (i'll join #debian-mono later, currently working on other things)
<\sh> k....breezy is vmware compatible
<tseng> id like to have meebey's opinion also, before we start kicking upstream
<tseng> slomo: thanks.
<tseng> slomo: still here?
<slomo> yes
<tseng> we both think it should be like this
<tseng>  /usr/lib/nermele/nermele{dll,.exe} whatever
<tseng> its CLI files
<tseng> and then /usr/bin/nermele is #!/bin/sh
<tseng> and does
<tseng> exec /usr/bin/mono  /usr/lib/muine/muine.exe "$@"
<tseng> something similar to this
<slomo> ok thanks... i'll change it that way later :)
<tseng> thanks
<slomo> tseng: done and uploaded here: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=102
<tseng> slomo: yeah um
<tseng> slomo: who is the "debian maintainer"? its not in sid
<tseng> and the itp is very old and has no package
<slomo> i haven't said debian maintainer... maintainer of the debian package ;) he has done the package linked on the official nemerle page
<tseng> i see
<tseng> can you come to #debian-mono now
<tseng> (there are a few small problems left)
<ivoks> hi
<pef> bye !
<ivoks> any gtk/python guru here? :)
<ivoks> uh, pygtk is sooo hard :(
<siretart> ivoks: is it? I think ogra used it in the past
<ivoks> today is my first day
<ivoks> objective is to create rocking backup program untill august is over :)
<ivoks> for now, i have 600x400 window :)
* siretart loves rsnapshot
<siretart> for backups
<ivoks> we need gui stuff
<ivoks> i love bacula :)
<ivoks> but it's not GUI :(
<comadreja> siretart : could you help me out with kismet package ? I'd like to know how to check all that stuff that you pointed out in revu
<siretart> ivoks: how about a nice graphical frontend for rsync?
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> nope..
<ivoks> i will create an app that will be able to burn on CD, record on tape, create simple .tar.gz
<ivoks> eventually, it should be able to comunicate with bacula
<ivoks> but first, i have to take control of pygtk
<siretart> comadreja: the problem is, kismet seems to me being a challenging package, and I would rather ping the debian maintainer doing a new package with the new upstream version, you know
<comadreja> siretart : sure
<siretart> comadreja: the numbers I wrote there can be looked up in the debian bts: http://bugs.debian.org/<bugnr>
<siretart> ivoks: btw, I think I found out my problem with wifi-radar
<comadreja> siretart : but there are ubuntu specific changes
<ivoks> siretart: yes?
<siretart> ivoks: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.drivers.madwifi.user/7456
<siretart> comadreja: they would have to be merged, right
<ivoks> siretart: so, it's madwifi problem
<siretart> ivoks: so I would need to be able to turn of the scanning thread
<comadreja> siretart : last debian change was in 2004
<ivoks> siretart: but how would you find ssids then?
<comadreja> siretart : I'm not asking you to solve the problems for me, in case you misunderstood me, just like to know how to check what you pointed out
<ivoks> i hate hello world
<siretart> ivoks: iwlist ath0 scan works, it "just" looses the current connection, which is no problem at all when no connection is established yet
<ivoks> siretart: so... wifi-radar scans only while it's open :)
<ivoks> i could create bigger timeout on scanning
<siretart> comadreja: yes, the problem is, that I'm also quite unsure how to proceed. I think it would be best to talk to the debian maintainer if and when he will update kismet
<ivoks> like one scan in 10 seconds
<siretart> comadreja: I don't know enough about kismet, and the changes to the version in the archive are too big for me to review and advocate
<comadreja> siretart : cool, do you contact him or should I do it ?
<comadreja> siretart : it's quite a simple package
<comadreja> siretart : but I'm new on this, so I'll do lots of wrong things
<siretart> comadreja: I don't think thats a simple package
<ivoks> siretart: play with SCAN_TIMEOUT and tell me what entry suits you best
<siretart> comadreja: why do you want a new upstream version at all?
<siretart> ivoks: ok, will do
<comadreja> siretart : I need it, it has support for ipw2200
<ivoks> what does?
<ivoks> i have ipw2200
<comadreja> siretart : there have been lots of improvements
<siretart> ivoks: kismet
<ivoks> ah..
<comadreja> passive scanning
<comadreja> it's really cool
<ivoks> Death by a thousand cuts: the road to X11R7 begins here. lol
<comadreja> you should try it
<comadreja> siretart : should I contact the debian maintainer ?
<siretart> comadreja: he has already been approached with 2 bug reports already, I think he already knows about the new upstream version. I you think it's urgent, then yes, reply to an existing bug#
<siretart> comadreja: or try to catch him on irc, but don't open another bug
<comadreja> oh, no, for sho ;)
<siretart> ivoks: hm. there must be more in the bush. madwifi looses the connection to the ap instantly :/
<ivoks> wifi-radar starts iwscan as soon as yout start it
<siretart> ivoks: how to enable __debug__?
<comadreja> siretart : in the case of the lintian warnings, they're because of the presence of CVS dirs on the original sources. Should I remove those dirs ?
<ivoks> zblj..
<ivoks> siretart: don't know :)
<ivoks> have to go :(
<siretart> bye ivoks!
<ivoks> siretart: that's python internal
<ivoks> __debug__
<siretart> comadreja: if they are really in the orig.tar.gz, then its crack :( - dont delete them as that would bloat the diff.gz  unnecessarily (we have to review that), in general, try to make reviewing as easy as possible, this increases your changes getting your contribution sponsored ;)
<comadreja> siretart : :) thanks a lot
<DanielN> hiho
<siretart> hi DanielN
<DanielN> hi siretart
<comadreja> hey DanielN :)
<DanielN> i'm playing with UML here, it's great ;>
<comadreja> DanielN : what do you use ?
<DanielN> ?
<comadreja> umbrello ? dia ?
<DanielN> huh???
<DanielN> usermodelinux ??
<siretart> comadreja: I think pen and paper is the best tool for uml :/
<comadreja> :D I thought UML as in unified modelling language
<DanielN> yeah.. i see :)
<comadreja> siretart : if the diagram is big, you need tools
<siretart> DanielN: If you are at emulating things, have you had a look at faumachine? it is developed as my university ;)
<siretart> comadreja: I think uml is crack anyway ;)
<DanielN> no.. never heard yet
<siretart> http://www3.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/Research/FAUmachine/
<comadreja> siretart : really ? I find it quite useful. I'm working on a big project and it really helps
<siretart> comadreja: I never have done real stuff with uml, possibly you are right
<DanielN> siretart, looks nice! but well, uml is the choice for emulating servers on servers :)
<DanielN> this faumachine seems to be a good qemu alternative
<siretart> DanielN: it has some different intentions, and the have qemu available as alternative cpu simulator
<DanielN> ah
<siretart> DanielN: with faumachine, you can emulate all kind of hardware, and inject faults (dying memory, bad sectors on discs and so on)
<DanielN> hm but.. it's built on uml? then emulating linux is the only choice?
<siretart> its not related to UserModeLinux in any way
<DanielN> ok
<siretart> well, the to similar stuff, so it is related somehow ;)
<DanielN> ;>
<DanielN> i'm away for smoking one
<ivoks> re
<ivoks> yay!
<ivoks> it does the job
<ivoks> now, fancy things :)
<siretart> good night, folks!
<mitsuhiko> night
<ivoks> night
<comadreja> nite siretart !
#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-16
<lamont> fitsimage.C: In member function `void FitsImage::initWCS(FitsHead*)':
<lamont> fitsimage.C:1763: error: array bound forbidden after parenthesized type-id
<lamont> fitsimage.C:1763: note: try removing the parentheses around the type-id
<lamont> make[3] : *** [fitsimage.o]  Error 1
<lamont> make[3] : Leaving directory `/build/buildd/saods9-3.0.3/saotk/frame'
<lamont>   // wcsinit is sloooowwww! so try to figure it out first
<lamont>   wcs = new (WorldCoor*)[MULTWCS] ;
<lamont> (1762-1763)
<lamont> bummer
<HostingGeek> You MOTUs deserve a reward
<HostingGeek> So i am giving you each one of these keyboards
<HostingGeek> so you can have fun typing
<Lathiat> For putting up with you?
<cmatheson> hey i've been using debian for forever and now i'm playing around w/ ubuntu (i like it), i want to be a motu, how can i help?
* Gazer is away: zzzzzZZZZZ
<robitaille> cmatheson: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU  is probably a good start to find something to do for the MOTU team.  Especially the TODO link near the end
<cmatheson> robitaille: sounds good, thanks
<pagefault> how does one begin maintaining a package in universe?
<ivoks> well...
<ivoks> you can create a package and put it on REVU
<ivoks> someone will have to review it, but you will not be able to upload it
<pagefault> ah ok, thats basically want I wanted to know, what I am supposed to do with the package once I have made it so it can be checkout/whatever has to be done before it can go into the repository
<siretart> moin
<ivoks> TypeError: 'gtk.VBox' object is not callable
<ivoks> give me a break, man :)
<pagefault> hehe
<siretart> pagefault: you should get yout package in a supportable way, i.e. other motus must be able to adapt where necessary
<pagefault> i'm not quite sure what you mean
<bienve> hi all
<siretart> hi bienve
<bienve> MOTU spanish exist ?
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> english only
<bienve> me create packetes for ubuntu :)
<bienve> :(
<siretart> pagefault: your requirements aren't that high, but as all packageas are group maintained, the package should be packaged sane, is this more clear? (I'm no native speaker :( )
<pagefault> siretart, ah yeah I understand, easy to change if need be, no problem
<siretart> bienve: great! :)
<pagefault> the maintainer for the package I am updating seems to have vanished off the face of the planet
<siretart> pagefault: if you want to take over maintaining, go on! :)
<pagefault> I don't think it ever had an ubuntu maintainer, the package that was included in multiverse in hoary was from debian
<ivoks> khm...
<ivoks> multiverse are non-free universe packages
<pagefault> I have no idea why it would be in non-free
<pagefault> because it is
<ivoks> and they are taken from debian
<ivoks> what package are we talking about?
<pagefault> zsnes
<siretart> pagefault: it is in debian/contrib
<siretart> pagefault: the reason is that it requires non-free additional software to work
<ivoks> yep
<pagefault> well there are free roms
<pagefault> it doesn't require it :)
<siretart> pagefault: well, go on and package it, perhaps we can move them to universe, then ;)
<pagefault> i'm one of the authors of the project btw, i'm just wanting to see the package in ubuntu since it's my main distro now
<siretart> ah. you are pretty welcome to help us with zsnes. that what's universe is about :)
<siretart> pagefault: great project btw, I use it from time to time ;)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kornbluth.freenode.net
<pagefault> siretart, thanks, I just wanted to make sure the package was kept up to date due to the nature of emulation having the latest version usually helps
<pagefault> and some people seem to have difficulty compiling it themselves
<siretart> yes, thats right
<siretart> pagefault: what problems are there with the current zsnes package?
<siretart> outdated? packaging bugs?
<pagefault> outdated
<pagefault> very outdated :)
<siretart> oh. I see
<siretart> pagefault: do you think you can update it yourself?
<pagefault> and we have nice icons and such since then so it would be good to have it added to the gnome menu
<siretart> woah, sound great! :)
<pagefault> siretart, pretty sure, I am going to look at the original package and go from there
<siretart> are the icons in the upstream tarball?
<siretart> it would probably best if the upstream tarball would contain a neat .desktop file
<siretart> then integretion into gnome and kde menus would be easy (.desktop file is a standard from freedesktop.org)
<pagefault> it should be in the tarball, yes
<pagefault> 5 or so icons for different scalings
<pagefault> maybe it would be better to include a SVG file?
<siretart> hm
<siretart> not sure about that part
<pagefault> they are just PNGs right now
<pagefault_> how rude
<pagefault> that was dangerous
<pagefault> I ejected my cdrom and the disc was still spinning
<Treenaks> pagefault: now all you need is a shuriken-shaped CD
<pagefault> i've been meaning to replace this cdrom
<pagefault> maybe I turn it into a cd flinger
<pagefault> I wonder if we are done splitting
<\sh> hmmm
<\sh> anybody is running a flgrx driver on breezy?
<Treenaks> \sh: I would, if someone would create l-r-m-2.6.12
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> but I tried with the orig. ones..doesn't work..
<\sh> compiling again wine
<\sh> they're a lot of diffs between debian and winehq *shiver*
<siretart> \sh: I see that scott ritchi is providing source packages for wine, but I havn't had a look at them yet
<\sh> well...the source is ok...the configs etc. are different...and to adjust those stuff...it takes more time as expected
<\sh> did we heard anything about a vserver yet`
<siretart> no, I havn't
<siretart> but since many folks are at debconf, I'd rather wait a week or two more..
<\sh> yes
<ogra> \sh, marks decision was to go with the winehq packages for the future :-/
<siretart> \sh: sistpoty and I have decided to rewrite revu anyway, now that know what we exactly know what want, and where the problems in current implementation are
<siretart> current codename is revu2 ;)
<ogra> \sh, and it would be good to contact scott richie about it ...
<\sh> ogra: i thought sire'n'sisters ,-)
<\sh> ogra: yepp
<ogra> heh
<\sh> oh....klaus came just to me and kissed my feet, cause my msn transport is working on my jabber *rotfl*
<ogra> i had some very controversal discussions with him before hoary, so it would also be good if it wasnt me who contacts him :)
<siretart> :)
<ogra> \sh, lol
<\sh> ogra: can u update me what was the discussion about? not that i'm running into the same dead end? ,-)
<ogra> i wanted him to work with the DD and bring his changes into debian...
<\sh> but?
<ogra> they didnt come together... because the DD was very ill and scott didnt try again after he was fine again.... the DD would have liked to include scotts patches/packages, but scott refused to talk again to him
<\sh> lets do it the other way...try to be a catalysator
<ogra> so they were stuck, and i decided we should go with the debian packages
<ogra> \sh, the debian wine guy is *very* shy... he doesnt talk to everyone... not ven on IRC
<\sh> shy?
<ogra> you need a very diplomatic skill to get these two together
<ogra> yes
<\sh> shy as in gay, or shy as in young?
<ogra> shy as in shy
<ogra> shy as in: "he is fearing communication"
* \sh thinks, that's a hard job for me...
<\sh> wrong job, he?
<ogra> \sh, you dont need to get them together, we (mark) want the winehq packages
<Treenaks> ogra, \sh: schchtern?
<ogra> so its up to them to arrrange it
<ogra> Treenaks, yep
<ogra> Treenaks, dug out your  again ? *G*
<Treenaks> ogra: it's not that hard with multi_key
<ogra> heh
<siretart> ;)
<\sh> ogra: if I inject the winehq packages for breezy (latest off. release), do I get an icecream? ,-)
* ogra wonders why he has to look a empty gaim contactlist...
<ogra> \sh, two !! (one from me, one from mark)
<\sh> no..from mark i want biltong ,-)
<ogra> heh
* ogra kicks gaim "GO AWAY !!"
<\sh> ogra: centericq ,-)
<Treenaks> ogra: killall is your friend
<ogra> nah, it will behave again within 10mins....
<\sh> new upload?
<ogra> its just anoying
<Treenaks> ogra: submit patches then :P
<ogra> Treenaks, i would if i had time...
<ogra> but people poking me about the ugly lock screen are getting annoying... so first i have to work out my patches here....
<ogra> edubuntu just got recognized by the UN .... so some people waiting for stuff from my side now...
<\sh> well...i was surprised a bit reading ubuntu is getting 10 Mio bucks and then I read, it's mark who is pushing them in...would be nice.somebody else would put some money on top of it
<dholbach> morning
<ogra> \sh, the fundation will make its own money at some point... until then mark will fund it
<ogra> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hey ogra - how's it going on this lovely day? :)
<comadreja> howdy all
<ogra> dholbach, a bit under pressure.... i was just told the UN would like to see a edubuntu presentation next thursday
<dholbach> *BLING!*   W H O ?   *BLING!*
<Treenaks> _the_ UN?
<ogra> and on a sidenote i'm discussing with elmo about the non-freeness of squeak and if and how we can include it... so no UN presentation in sight yet
<ogra> Treenaks, yes, they have a funding program for african schools
<dholbach> because of one package?
<ogra> dholbach, because of about 30-40 packages... look at xorg and dependent stuff :/
<ogra> i cant build my seeds if they rely on broken packages so edubuntu-desktop still has to wait
<dholbach> first you talk about squeak and now about what?
<ogra> i talk about missing time, packages etc...
<Treenaks> squeak = smalltalk thing?
<dholbach> ah hm well - what did mdz/kamion say to all this?
<Lathiat> whats squeak?
<ogra> Treenaks, yep
<ogra> dholbach, what should they say, nobody expects xorg and dependent packages to work during development
<Treenaks> ogra: they should start stabilizing I guess..
<ogra> Lathiat, a multimedia teaching environment and smalltalk interpreter
<dholbach> yeah - but don't they have a solution?
<ogra> dholbach, i could strike missing packages out of the seeds ... but then i had to change them constantly
<ogra> and i rather dont *pfusch*
<dholbach> oh well
<dholbach> did you read daniels' reply on ubuntu-devel@ ?
<ogra> yes... but that still doesnt make celestia work for example :)
<dholbach> make a public edubuntu-todo-list - that's what made universe work :)
<ogra> dholbach, i have to care for ~100 pkgs for edubuntu... thats not even worth a list...
<dholbach> that's your opinion :)
<ogra> 30-40 of them dont work curretnly, but will work if the underlying architecture is there again... its just a matter of patience
<\sh> dholbach: what about it?
<\sh> there were many daniels mails ,-)
<dholbach> \sh: he explained correct GL build-depends
<ogra> dholbach, the edubuntu development is fine as it is...
<dholbach> that's great to hear
<ogra> dholbach, the thing is, that we are simply not ready for presentations
<\sh> dholbach: oh..:) he explained also unexpected missing links ,-)
<ogra> dholbach, but people demand them :)
<\sh> compiling straight winehq packages...now
<\sh> and after that i will switch from 20050524 to 20050628
<dholbach> winehq-debian packages?
<dholbach> ogra: then present what you can: a nice ubuntu desktop with *SOME* of the apps
<\sh> dholbach: yepp
<ogra> dholbach, i dont have a nice ubuntu desktop
<comadreja> how does the review process work ? Does a package need to be reviewed by several people ?
<ogra> dholbach, we dont have a working colony CD
<ogra> dholbach, thats my base
<dholbach> \sh: they drop quite a lot of binary packages in there - make sure you have a 2nd look
<dholbach> comadreja: a NEW package has to get 3 good reviews
<\sh> dholbach: right now the deb upstream doesn't work.
<dholbach> comadreja: MOTUNewPackagesPolicy on the wiki
<comadreja> dholbach : it's an update
<\sh> dholbach: the 20050628 snapshot is working for breezy with gcc4
<dholbach> comadreja: then just one
<ogra> dholbach, and just botching up something would steal my develpment time for the real thing
<\sh> but scott also compiled a package for breezy
<Amaranth> so, what's X like today?
<dholbach> \sh: we had big trouble with the wine packages - be sure to talk to the debian maintainer before you upload anything
<ogra> dholbach, and would shed a bad light on edubuntu
<comadreja> could somebody review kismet then for me ?
<\sh> dholbach: ogra told me, that mark wants winehq packages in ubuntu
<dholbach> i'd rather appreciate concordance with the debian folks
<ogra> dholbach, marks ord is get the winehq packages in as soon as possible, dont care about debian here... he was a bit upset because he didnt notice that winehq and debian still dont work together
<ogra> s/ord/order
<dholbach> ogra: when?
<ogra> dholbach, in london last week
<Amaranth> doesn't winehq make debian packages every two weeks or something
<dholbach> *grmbl*
<ogra> we discussed wine at the edubunt summit
<\sh> i don't mind using winehq or debian, as long i can get my tax soft running
<dholbach> Amaranth: yeah, but they dropped some binary packages (split-out shared objects)
<ogra> and he was beliving we had pulled in the hq packages as soon as breezy stared
<Amaranth> wha?
<dholbach> Amaranth: hm?
<Amaranth> you lost me
<dholbach> ogra: i guess that's UbuntuAndUpstreams :)
<ogra> dholbach, so its a sabdfl decision.... dont care about debian if it comes to wine packages.. the upstreams have to sort it themselves...
<ogra> ...but we go with winehq
<dholbach> Amaranth: debian package has some more binary packages like libwine-* or something, winehq deploys one big package, which ... hmm, is ... ....
<Amaranth> why is wine so important for edubuntu?
<ogra> Amaranth, it isnt
<ogra> Amaranth, we just discussed it
<\sh> what about vmware workstation on every ubuntu cd?
<Treenaks> \sh: non-free
<\sh> but there r some pitfalls
<\sh> Treenaks: with key ,-)
<ogra> wine wont be in edubuntu for now... if we have a big user demand, we'll get it in breezy+1 for edubuntu
<dholbach> ouch
<Lathiat> also x86 only
<Amaranth> wine probably doesn't fit the target audience
<dholbach> ok, i'm off again
<\sh> everybody who is using vmware has to test at least 3 daily iso snaps a week
<ogra> wine does... but the configuration issues dont
<ogra> and the licensing issues
<Amaranth> i mean crossover office would be a better fit
<ogra> Amaranth, still licensing probs
<Treenaks> Amaranth: crossover office is wine with some tweaks, afaik?
<Amaranth> yeah, i wasn't saying ship it
<Amaranth> Treenaks: With lots of GUIs and hand holding.
<\sh> it's just like transgaming
<ogra> the problem here is not the emu, the problem are the app... edubuntu will be ltsp based... so you can use single licensed windows software in a multiuser env, and break te eula
<ogra> so we would make a lot of teachers outlaws :)
<\sh> great ;) those teachers buged me in the past...let them be hunted down *lol*
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> only inprisoned teachers are good teachers (finally in germany) *eg*
<Treenaks> ogra: Make that very clear :)
<Lathiat> is there some way i can search through main only with apt-cache search
<Treenaks> ogra: and re-write the windows programs as free software in python or something (cross-platform)
<ogra> Treenaks, i dont care if they install it themselves then its their own fault... i just dont want them to step into this trap out of the box ;)
<dholbach> Lathiat: python-apt is your friend there or grep-dctrl
<ogra> and yes, i will try to support edu app development for the future... lets see how edubuntu evolves, but i think for breezy+1 we can have some bountys
<ogra> (like developing a big red warning popup for wine users *gg*)
<Amaranth> hehe
<Amaranth> so, what were you using the xdg menu system for again?
<Lathiat> dholbach: thanks
<ogra> Amaranth, see TeachersPet on the edubuntu.org wiki
<ogra> Amaranth, i want the ability to make different menus for different groups of pupils
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> groups will be a PITA
<ogra> with a easy drag and drop solution where the teacher just drops the apps for his class...
<Amaranth> haha
<Amaranth> as long as his apps are .desktop files the next version of smeg will support that
<ogra> so every class is a group and you just have to select your class as a teacher and the pupils have the preselected apps
<Amaranth> that'll probably need some ldap hackery
<ogra> i'll look into it...
<Treenaks> Amaranth: ave you seen sabayon?
<Amaranth> ooh, neat idea: make nautilus provide .desktop file data on DnD of any file
<ogra> i'll get something that very much matches the TeachersPet spec during this week... there are edu distros already using such a tool
<Amaranth> Treenaks: Yeah.
<Amaranth> Treenaks: I've seen that it'll probably be a year before it's useful. :P
<ogra> but i doubt it will go in without tweaks :)
<ogra> sabayon already works
<ogra> but it only locks down gconf stuff.... not very helpful if you have to deal with mixed desktops
<tseng> does X still work?
<tseng> :P
<\sh> hm
<ogra> mh ?
<\sh> ready to upload wine-0.0.20050628
<\sh> from winehq
<ogra> contacted scoot richie ?
<ogra> scott
<\sh> nope...just tried first...i will write him an email now
<ogra> yes, please :)
<ogra> and thanks for doing the task
<\sh> the debian release and last stable from winehq is not working with gcc4
<ogra> i'm wondering if they have the promised ppc and amd64 support yet
<\sh> trial and error upload? ,-)
<ogra> heh
<\sh> can I refer to marks statement, that we want to have winehq packages in ubuntu?
<ogra> yep
<\sh> thx
<ogra> there must also be a mail in the ubuntu-devel archive....
<\sh> would be nice, if you can find this mail asap ;) cause I don't want to open another mutt now ,-)
<siretart> WOAH!
* siretart is staring at the changelog of xorg  6.8.2-35
<Lathiat> :)
<ogra> \sh, http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/005545.html
<ogra> \sh, please read also this thread for background info http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/005456.html
<\sh> ogra: owe u one :)
<\sh> ogra: u have mail as bcc
<ogra> thanks :)
<\sh> friendly, bribing, *** licking mail ,-)
<\sh> he should reply soon and say "yes, i love u all"
<\sh> oh he is motu already?
<ogra> nope
<\sh> "I even got approved as an MOTU
<\sh> back in the days of yore, although due to lack of keysigning I haven't
<\sh> passed the final muster yet."
<\sh> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-March/005501.html
<dholbach> that's wrong
<\sh> ah...yeah I see...*readingallthenonsensenow*
<ogra> \sh, thats why i asked you to read the whole thread, there is a lot nonsense in it :)
<\sh> i don't mind...I put honey in this mail, and it's smelling like roseflower
<\sh> he will talk to me
<schweeb> holy crap, I want to hump daniels's leg now
<schweeb> the xorg changelog is insane
<\sh> I'm a nice guy anyways *withmyeyesblink
<tseng> schweeb: uh
<tseng> remember when i said id get back at you?
<schweeb> of course, I do, senor hale
<tseng> thanks for doing it yourself.
* schweeb humps tseng's leg
<schweeb> don't think you can get out of it that easily
<\sh> hmmmm
<\sh> well...i looks like most of the guys are positiv to have this winehq stuff inside ubuntu
<ogra> \sh, sweet mail :)
<\sh> as i said: honey and roseflower
<ogra> \sh, yes, but they are lacking a lot... and if you programmed some VB scripts and packaged them in a deb in debian, they wont work on ubuntu
<tseng> uh?
<tseng> wow.
<\sh> ogra: well...that's a problem with wine anyways...it doesn't work as expected
<ogra> \sh, nope, i mean the packaging... the debia packages are split in varoius libwine-something packages...
<ogra> these are missing completely in winehq
<ogra> so we get 100% incompatible to debian
<\sh> ogra: as I understand scott, it isn't...only that he's not doing all this weired: Every Lib has its own package thing...
<\sh> let me have a look
<ogra> \sh, yes, thats the point
<ogra> \sh, i know some people that package VB scripts in debs for easy installation...they would have dependency issues...
<\sh> they're doing what?
<Lathiat> vb scripts?
<ogra> sure, you can run them in wine
<\sh> ogra: u r right, those people have dependency issues
* Treenaks cries
<\sh> i hear many weired stuff.
<ogra> Lathiat, embedded excel stuff run via samba .... (they call that programming somehow)
<Lathiat> ogra: oh you mean as in visual kbasic scripts?
<ogra> Lathiat, i didnt mean victoria bitter beer with VB :)
<Lathiat> well i figured
* siretart tries not to vomit
<Lathiat> but i was hoping someone didnt say someone used vbscript in a debian package
<Lathiat> and that vbscript was some new k-rad random scripting language
<ogra> Lathiat, its crazy, but you can do it :)
* Lathiat harms himself
<\sh> ogra: but u mean they're using VB script as install scripts for linux apps?
<\sh> in debian postinstall stuff?
<\sh> call wine install.vb.script
<\sh> ?
<ogra> nope, lol
<dholbach> see you later
<ogra> they just have packages that copy the scripts to appropriate places to use them via samba froma server
<\sh> now i need some winegums...this shock ,-)
<ogra> the scripts themselves are mostly embedded office crap
<\sh> ogra: they should have a look at cfengine
<ogra> \sh, they should learn a programming language ;)
<\sh> ehe...i need some winegums...brb
<\sh> back
<\sh> ogra: I put this issue on the tb agenda for tomorrow
<ogra> hmm, shouldnt we wait until scott answers ?
<ogra> just mention it in the meeting...
<ogra> we shouldt discuss it without scott
<\sh> no...I will mention it to the TB..and that I mailed Scott..if Scott is not helping us, we will do it on our own
<ogra> yep
<\sh> scott is a nice to have,yes, and if mark has a good contact to him, would be great if he would use it to get him into this team
<siretart> hi sistpoty
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<pef> hello
<slomo> is it ok to build a package explicit with gcc 3.3 when it can't be build with 4.0... there are no compile-time errors, just sporadic segmentation faults when running it
<Treenaks> slomo: fix the code ;)
<Treenaks> (but I don't know an answer to that)
<slomo> sure that would be the best ;) but i can't fix the code as it's too complex for me... it's a compiler ;)
<jbailey> slomo: What's the error you're getting?
<jbailey> slomo: (You can often find someone here with the skills to help)
<slomo> jamessan: just a segfault when running the compiled program
<jbailey> The basic trick is that it's going to need to be fixed anyway.  It seems better in most cases to try and get it fixed if possible.  If it's impossible, I'd check with ogra and the other master MOTUs before doing it.
<jbailey> slomo: Was that intended for me? =)
<comadreja> I'm getting this with pbuilder clean:
<slomo> yes... sorry ;)
<comadreja> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build/18055/dev': Device or resource busy
<comadreja> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build/18055/.dev': Device or resource busy
<comadreja> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build/18055': Directory not empty
<comadreja> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build/': Directory not empty
<jbailey> slomo: So unchanged, the code works in gcc-3.3, and segfaults when compiled with gcc-4.0?
<Treenaks> comadreja: udev-inside-chroot
<comadreja> Treenaks : thanks a lot
<comadreja> Treenaks : how do I do that :D
<Treenaks> comadreja: no, that's the cause :)
<Treenaks> I don't know the solution
<comadreja> Treenaks : oh, I see... should I reboot
<Treenaks> comadreja: no, just unmount those /var/cache/.../dev dirs
<comadreja> I can't login
<Treenaks> weird...
<slomo> jbailey: yes... so it's probably a code generation bug in gcc 4.0...
<jbailey> slomo: Well... it's just as likely to be crappy code.
<jbailey> Which package?
<comadreja> slomo : yes, try to debug, you can could find the problem
<slomo> jbailey: smlnj
<jbailey> Ugh, circular build-deps that can't be met on powerpc.
<jbailey> slomo: I don't have an ia32 system handy at the moment to debug this on, sorry.
<jbailey> slomo: But otherwise, there have been two bugfix releases since the one we have in the archive.  Neither mentions gcc-4 compatability fixes specifically, but there are some notes about wrong code generation.
<slomo> jbailey: yes the package is completely broken in breezy and hoary ;) that's why i work on it... currently i can get working x86 and ppc binaries
<slomo> jbailey: i'm working on the latest version ;)
<jbailey> Ah, lovely.  If you compile at -O0 does the compiler stop segfaulting?
<slomo> good idea... wait a moment, i'll try it
<Riddell> if I upload a new package with someone else's e-mail address but signed by me where does the NEW e-mail go?
<comadreja> damn, now I get another pbuilder error:
<comadreja> Setting up wget (1.9.1-10ubuntu2.1) ...
<comadreja> touch: cannot touch `/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp': No such file or directory
<comadreja> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'touch /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp'
<comadreja> E: Sub-process returned an error code
<comadreja>  -> Aborting with an error
<sledmouth> hello
<Treenaks> hello?
<sledmouth> i'm interested in xfce4 on ubuntu...
<Treenaks> apt-get install xfce4
<slomo> jbailey: it work's with gcc 4.0 and -O0 at least on x86... at least the resulting sml compiler can compile it's own libraries without any segfaults
<sledmouth> also , i want a very small usb 802.11g for my ibook g4 (for obvious reasons); any suggestions
<slomo> sledmouth: i'm using a dlink dwl-122 but it's hard to get it working
<jbailey> slomo: 'kay.  What I'd be inclned to do is to repeat the test with -O1.  If it works there then you either have to decide that you feel like hunting down the bug and reporting it (It could still be either a bad aliasing problem or some black magic inside a garbage collector or somehing in the program, or it could be a gcc code generation problem) or leaving it at -O1 for now, and revisiting it when gcc-4.1 comes out on the
<jbailey> assumption that someone else will have gotten to it.
<jbailey> It really depends on how brave you feel.
<jbailey> Tracking down bugs caused by changing optimisation levels can be a fun adventure.  Some times that adventure is best done over a bottle of whiskey.
<jbailey> I'd encourage you to try it if you have the time, though.
<slomo> hehe... i think i'll first upload a working package using -O1... then report the bug upstream and then look further into this but I don't think i'll find the problem... that's at the moment a bit too hard for my knowledge
<slomo> hum... and it don't work with -O1 :(
<jbailey> slomo: Assuming you're willing to continue, the next trick is to figure out which optimisation is causing the grief.  That will also hint as to what sort of problem you might be looking for.
<jbailey> slomo:  According to the man page, the following are the optimisations at -O1 -fdefer-pop -fdelayed-branch -fguess-branch-probability -fcprop-registers -floop-optimize -fif-conversion -fif-conversion2 -ftree-ccp -ftree-dce -ftree-dominator-opts -ftree-dse -ftree-ter -ftree-lrs -ftree-sra -ftree-copyrename -ftree-fre -ftree-ch -fmerge-constants
<jbailey> Err, that should be -fdelayed-branch
<jbailey> You could try running the compiler through gdb with what you have already, but its awfully nice to kill most of the optimisations that you can while debugging.
<slomo> ok... i'll try later :) can i ask you when i have any further questions regarding this?
<jbailey> slomo: Yup.  If I don't notice you here (either because I'm not watching #u-motu or I'm not around) try #ubuntu-toolchain
<slomo> thanks :)
<comadreja> I need help with pbuilder, I keep getting an error and I don't know if it's a bug or is something I'm doing wrong
<comadreja> Setting up build-essential (10.1ubuntu1) ...
<comadreja> touch: cannot touch `/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp': No such file or directory
<comadreja> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'touch /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp'
<comadreja> I get that when doing a "pbuilder create --distribution hoary"
<slomo> jbailey: the gcc manual/manpage is wrong... with all these parameters it works without a problem
<slomo> jamessan: at least -fcrossjumping -fthread-jumps are also activated by -O1... both written to be activated only beginning from -O2
<slomo> aah... i meant jbailey
<jbailey> Ugh.
<slomo> jbailey: and -fcrossjumping seems to be the evil switch... i'll retry with -O1 -fno-crossjumping and when that works with -O2 -fno-crossjumping...
<ogra> hey herve
<herve> heya!
<jbailey> slomo: Right, or if you can do the build with just -fcrossjumping, and use gdb to find where you get the segfault., look at the code and see if you can make a testcase out of it.
<slomo> jbailey: well, let's hope it crashes with just -O0 -fcrossjumping...
<jbailey> slomo: If it does, that's ideal.
<slomo> jbailey: no, it's not just -fcrossjumping :( i'll try further which switches are causing the trouble...
<jbailey> slomo: Well, can you feed it through gdb as it is and step to the failing instruction?
<slomo> jbailey: sure, i'll try that... i've compiled it with -g a few minutes ago (and otherwise with the crashing parameters) and it worked :/
<siretart> ivoks: ping
<jbailey> slomo: If you can, use -g3 to get more debug information.
<jbailey> Ugh, it doesn't fail with the debug information in.  Joy.
<ivoks> siretart: tabel tenis :)
<ivoks> table even :))
<siretart> hehe
<siretart> ivoks: I managed to patch wifi-radar so it is usable on madwifi
<siretart> :)
<ivoks> really?
<ivoks> send me a patch :)
<siretart> yeah. the problem is that the SCANNING_TIMEOUT is irrelevant
<ivoks> or you can take source, patch it, and upload it
<siretart> I want to discuss it with you first
<siretart> ivoks: at the end of the scanning thread, there is a 'sleep ( 0.5 )' call, right?
<ivoks> sec...
<siretart> this 0.5 should be 20 or 30 for madwifi, I made good experiences with that
<ivoks> ok...
<siretart> but this is err. how to say. anoying to e.g. ipw users
<ivoks> is there any way to find that someone is using madwifi?
<ivoks> siretart: i know how to fix it..
<siretart> ivoks: madwifi interfaces are called athX, this would be an indicator
<ivoks> great..
<ivoks> i'll just put one if elif
<siretart> and there is another bug for german locales: the ifconfig regex doesnt match
<ivoks> ?
<siretart> the IFCONFIG command is set to 'ifconfig' right now
<ivoks> right
<siretart> that really should be 'LC_MESSAGES=C /sbin/ifconifg'
<ivoks> ?
<siretart> the problem is that otherwise the ifconfig regex won't match
<ivoks> why
<siretart> and wifi-radar says 'no ip found' or something like that
<siretart> ivoks: http://paste.debian.net/1129
<siretart> this is an example outout if ifconfig in german locale
<siretart> have a look at line 2 and compare with the regex in wifi radar. the regex is broken with that input
<ivoks> lol
<ivoks> ok...
<siretart> the LC_MESSAGES=C makes ifconfig to speak english, which is ok for the regex ;)
<ivoks> thanks for that
<siretart> no problem :)
<ivoks> siretart: what't the output of iwconfig?
<ivoks> but... it doesn't do any regexp in wifi-radar with ifconfig (?)
<siretart> ivoks: I just shut down my notebook, and I don't have my charger here :(
<siretart> ivoks: look in function get_current_ip()
<ivoks> siretart:  # Be careful to the language (inet adr: in French for example)
<ivoks> :>
<siretart> exactly :/
<siretart> ;)
<comadreja> I need help with pbuilder, I keep getting an error and I don't know if it's a bug or is something I'm doing wrong
<siretart> at this point, there shouldn't be some broken workaround for different locales. better to set the output of the parsed commands to sane values
<comadreja> Setting up build-essential (10.1ubuntu1) ...
<comadreja> touch: cannot touch `/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp': No such file or directory
<comadreja> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'touch /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp'
<siretart> comadreja: better use http://paste.debian.net for pasting
<comadreja> it's just three lines, but I'll do
<comadreja> any idea ?
<siretart> comadreja: try purging all config files, pbuilder and all of /var/cache/pbuilder and begin from scratch. post also your /etc/pbuilderrc
<comadreja> I'll do the purge
<comadreja> thanks
<comadreja> then I'll paste the file if it doesn't work
<slomo> jbailey: i'll look further into it tomorrow
<jbailey> slomo: Cool.  ping me when you start.  If I'm around I'll help as I can.
<slomo> jbailey: thanks :) btw, -O1 -fno-crossjumping hasn't worked...
<jbailey> Even with -g ?
<comadreja> siretart : http://paste.debian.net/1130
<Jogariga> hi guys. i want to help ubuntu with packages
<siretart> comadreja: looks good. what does now a pbuilder create say?
<Jogariga> i have used ubuntu for a few months now and i would like to give something back to the community
<comadreja> siretart : another paste ?
<siretart> Jogariga: hey, cool! you are at the right place here! :)
<ivoks> siretart: could you check it now?
<ivoks> i'll send you binary
<slomo> jbailey: even with -g... i'll run gdb on it tomorrow to see where it breaks ;)
<ivoks> "binary" :)
<siretart> ivoks: yes, I can have a look at it
<jbailey> slomo: Cool.  Good luck!
<comadreja> Setting up sudo (1.6.8p5-1ubuntu2.1) ...
<comadreja> Setting up bzip2 (1.0.2-2ubuntu0.1) ...
<comadreja> Setting up tcpdump (3.8.3-3ubuntu0.4) ...
<comadreja> Setting up wget (1.9.1-10ubuntu2.1) ...
<comadreja> touch: cannot touch `/var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp': No such file or directory
<comadreja> E: Problem executing scripts DPkg::Post-Invoke 'touch /var/lib/update-notifier/dpkg-run-stamp'
<comadreja> E: Sub-process returned an error code
<comadreja>  -> Aborting with an error
<comadreja>  -> unmounting dev/pts filesystem
<comadreja>  -> unmounting proc filesystem
<comadreja>  -> cleaning the build env
<siretart> comadreja: yes, furtunatly, paste.debian.net accepts also longer pastes ;)
<comadreja>     -> removing directory /var/cache/pbuilder/build//21104 and its subdirectories
<comadreja> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//21104/dev': Device or resource busy
<comadreja> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//21104/.dev': Device or resource busy
<comadreja> rmdir: `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//21104': Directory not empty
<comadreja> root@patrogli:~ # logout
<comadreja> oops
<ogra> comadreja, no need to spam the channel
<comadreja> sorry
<ogra> *g*
<comadreja> sorry
<comadreja> I thought I had in the buffer the paste link
<ivoks> siretart: no, no good :)
<ivoks> ogra: !!! :)
<ogra> ivoks, :)
<ivoks> ogra: you know python, right? :)
<siretart> Jogariga: do you already have some packaging experience or do you need some starting help? ;)
<comadreja> http://paste.debian.net/1131
<ogra> only a bit... and i'm out of training
<ivoks> ogra: i have one simple question :/
<Jogariga> siretart: i need some help starting
<ogra> comadreja, have you followed the pbuilder howto ?
<ogra> ivoks, shoot
<comadreja> ogra: yes, funny thing is that I had a pbuilder running with hoary... then I dist-upgraded
<ogra> comadreja, update-notifier is mentioned there
<comadreja> ogra: and rebuilt
<comadreja> ogra: and failed after that
<siretart> comadreja: which version of debootstrap do you use?
<ivoks> ogra: devicename = re.search(INTERFACE, '^ath') - I'm trying to add input to devicename if ath is in INTERFACE, and INTERFACE begins with ath
<comadreja> 0.3.1.4ubuntu1
<siretart> comadreja: I'm not sure, but try installing the breezy deb
<comadreja> siretart : I'm running breezy
<ivoks> ogra: is this right way? :)
<siretart> comadreja: and place some debootstrapopts to exclude update-notifier
<siretart> you'll hardly need it in pbuilder ;)
<comadreja> ok
<ogra> ivoks, there is something like the startswith function, this one fits better ;(
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> oops
<Jogariga> siretart: where can i find more information on how to help?
<ogra> i think it belongs to string...
<siretart> Jogariga: have you already had a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources?
<ivoks> ogra: ok, then i have one if else loop :)
<ivoks> condition, acctually
<ivoks>  if devicename != 0: \ something
<siretart> Jogariga: unfortunatly, I don't think we have a better manual as the Debian New Maintainers Guide.
<ivoks> ogra: is that good too? :)
<ogra> ivoks, have a look at "try"
<ivoks> ok
<siretart> Jogariga: I'd suggest reading the guide, and having a look at some smaller and simpler packages. and try to understand how the build system works
<comadreja> siretart : how do I disable the update-notifier ? no mention on the man page
<siretart> Jogariga: it's quite hard to explain how debian packaging works on irc, but if you have any concrete questions, feel free to ask here, and we will try to help!
<siretart> comadreja: see the manpage of debootstrap, and look at the --exclude option
<herve> I'll be in holidays by the end of the week (day off in France)
<herve> I hope I'll have time to give to ubuntu
<herve> package review, etc :-)
<siretart> :)
<ivoks> uh
<Jogariga> siretart: ok thanks
<siretart> ogra: I see the morgue linked from DeveloperResources, but it seems quite outdated. do you know what the current status is?
<ogra> the morgue itself ?
<siretart> http://morgue.ubuntu.com/
<siretart> the latest entry is 2005-03-29
<ogra> yes, then hoary was released...
<ogra> and after that there was not much activity ....
<siretart> what exactly is the morgue? who decides what goes in?
<ogra> sicne everybody was fixing instead of cleaning out i guess... excepct traffic if dholbach is working again ;)
<siretart> aah, allright, then
<ogra> we had a MorgueCandidates wikipage....
<ogra> to discuss them before we throw them out...
<ivoks> khm... thath thing with re.search is wrong :)
<herve> afaik, the wiki page is more up to date than that url I didn't even know
<herve> I don't even know how it gets filled in
<ivoks> oh, herve :)
<ivoks> herve: i bet you know python :)
<herve> hehe
<herve> I'll tell you a secret
<ivoks> it works!
<herve> I was also hired for my python knowledge
<ogra> herve, crazy, who did that ?
<siretart> Jogariga: http://women.alioth.debian.org/wiki/index.php/English/PackagingTutorial seems to be a nice tutorial for packaging
<siretart> I will add it to developer resources
<herve> ogra, my company searched for a zope specialist
<ivoks> herve: but i need just a simple help :)
<ogra> herve, just kidding :)
<herve> ogra, not me :-)
<ogra> :)
<ivoks> herve: could you? please :)
<herve> ivoks, sure of course, fire!
<ogra> herve, so if you bored, please stat a moodle replacement, i'd pay a personaly bounty of a box of good wine :)
<ivoks> devicename = re.search(INTERFACE, 'eth')
<ogra> s/stat/start
<ivoks> herve: that line doesn't work what it should :)
<herve> ogra, being bored is a luxury to me these times
<herve> ogra, but what is moodle?
<ogra> i feared that answer
<ivoks> ogra: i worked with moodle
<ogra> herve, school environment in (shudder) php
<herve> ivoks, the regular expression module ?
<ivoks> moodle sucks
<ivoks> herve: import re :)
<ogra> ivoks, they cheered for it
<herve> ogra, schooltool? (or was it schoolbell)
<ivoks> herve: i have that...
<ogra> herve, yes, thats the cool one
<ivoks> there is one good...
<ogra> herve, but lacs the functionallity of moodle
<slomo> jbailey: i've run it with gdb and it seems like the call stack is completely broken after the segfault, almost all lines are like "#890 0x00000000 in ?? ()" and at the end "Previous frame inner to this frame (corrupt stack?)" i have no idea where the problem is located ;) this is with -g3
<ivoks> atutor
<herve> ivoks, er... simplier, I missed the question!
<ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/racunala/login.php
<ivoks> herve: i want to search for pattern in text, and if it exist exec something, if it doesn't exec something else
<ivoks> herve: so i tought, i'll search for pattern and place result in variable
<herve> which version of python?
<herve> er...
<ivoks> herve: then do if variable != 0: exec this else: exec that
<ogra> ivoks, you want to find out if a line starts with a certain string... re is overkill
<herve> you just want to search if INTERFACE contains 'eth'?
<ivoks> 2.4
<jbailey> slomo: Right, so you have to set a breakpoint at some likely function and use next and step to get closer.
<ivoks> yes
<ivoks> :)
<ivoks> i'm new to python :)
<herve> if INTERFACE.find('eth') == -1:
<herve> not found...
<ogra> ivoks, i made the same mistakes ;)
<herve> else:
<herve> found...
<herve> add spaces where appropriate
<herve> or even .startswith if you expect it at the beginning
<herve> or even INTERFACE[0:3]  == 'eth' if you're confident
<ivoks> :********
<herve> any questions? :-)
<ivoks> thank you
<ivoks> siretart: want to give it a try?
<siretart> ivoks: yes, why not :)
<herve> INTERFACE[:3]  and you save one byte!
<ivoks> :)
<herve> have any of you checked gnu arch 2.0?
<ogra> herve, bazaar !!
<herve> ogra, that's a client
<herve> any certainly better than tla (not hard!)
<ogra> nah
<ogra> http://bazaar.canonical.com/
<herve> here I mean a new architecture inspired by Linus' ideas for git
<herve> bazaar is compatible with arch 1 archives
<ogra> herve, i bet another box of beer he will take bazaar
<herve> but I know it uses its know library format by default
<herve> tom lord?
<ogra> linus
<herve> hu, hello? he wrote git a month ago
<ogra> as a interim solution, yes
<herve> they released three kernel versions with this interim tool :-)
<ogra> yes... but he always said its an interim
<ogra> (nothing is as good as a good working interim solution though)
<herve> he also said linux won't be big and professional as gnu in 1994 ;-)
<ogra> lets see ;)
<ivoks> fucking patches :(
<herve> I'll really try bazaar for our next project
<herve> because my colleagues are really suffering with tla
<siretart> I've done some updates to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - I think they are sane, but it won't hurt if someone would 'review' them
<ivoks> ok, uploaded to revu
<ivoks> siretart: give it a try ;)
<ivoks> doh..
<ivoks> bug :)
<siretart> ?
<ivoks> 0.5 :)
<ivoks> ok, new version up :)
<siretart> just a mom
<comadreja> I removed the package, pbuilder, purged the config, reinstalled, reconfigured... and still got the same error
<ogra> comadreja, did you also delete /var/cache/pbuilder ?
<comadreja> ogra, yep :/
<siretart> comadreja: still with --exclude=update-notifier?
<comadreja> yep, still with the exclude
<siretart> but then the error message should have changed, if no update-notifier is installed
<siretart> ?
<comadreja> the error message is the same :/
<siretart> then update-notfier is installed anyway, right? try to find out why
<comadreja> I'm retrying...
<siretart> slomo: ping
<slomo> siretart: pong
<siretart> slomo: I've just seen your bugfix to taglib, will upload it soom
<ivoks> time to leave... bye
<siretart> slomo: but, did you check if this bug has been reported to debian?
<slomo> siretart: no but it's on my todo list ;) i'll do that later this night
<siretart> slomo: please file a bug against taglib with your patch included
<siretart> we want to give patches back to debian :)
<siretart> slomo: uploaded
<siretart> slomo: have you already been whitelisted?
<comadreja> siretart : is this line right ? DEBOOTSTRAPOPTS[0] ='--exclude=update-notifier'
<slomo> siretart: thanks... in the debian bts there are 4 bug reports but all are minor problems and not this one
<slomo> siretart: elmo said he has done it... how do i notice it? ;)
<siretart> slomo: you should get mail in a few minutes then from a nice madam named katie ;)
<siretart> comadreja: I think so, but I'm a bit confused about the '[0] '
<slomo> siretart: Rejected: taglib_1.3.1-1ubuntu2_source.changes: upload is signed by 0x93005DC27E876C37ED7BCA9A98083544945348A4 but is not in the Maintainer keyring.
<Treenaks> I got that too yesterday
<siretart> slomo: wah, why didn't you tell me that taglib is in main! ;)
<siretart> slomo: you will have to ping people like ogra, tseng or dholbach for this upload then :(
<ajmitch> morning
<ogra> siretart, rather elmo....
<slomo> siretart: haven't noticed it... sorry :/
<ogra> siretart, i cant upload te same version
<siretart> ogra: why same version? the version is updated from ubuntu1 to ubuntu2
<ogra> yes, and the next upload should be ubuntu3
<herve> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> herve! :)
<ajmitch> ltns
<ogra> siretart, and it wont fix your key
<herve> lnthaving spare time
<siretart> ogra: so I broke updating taglib?
<siretart> :(
<ogra> siretart, nope, your upload should still be on the server i think and elmo can verify why your key doesnt work
<siretart> well, I'm not in the uploaders keyring for main, thats clear.
* siretart is sorry for causing trouble :(
<ogra> ah, thats main
<ogra> i missed that
<siretart> yes.
* slomo is sorry for the trouble he caused :(
<comadreja> don't be worried all of you, I'm the one who spammed the channel :)
<herve> see you later
<comadreja> ok, I'm also sorry, but pbuilder keeps on failing with [0]  or without
<comadreja> same message about update-notifier
<ivoks> is it only me or debian zlib fix brakes samba?
<Riddell> dholbach!
<siretart> hey dholbach
<dholbach> hi :)
<Riddell> dholbach: when I upload a new package with -k me and someone else's e-mail address where does the NEW e-mail go?
<dholbach> erm
<dholbach> i only set one mail adress
<dholbach> -kdh@mailempfang.de
<dholbach> he should get katie's mail
<Riddell> I mean someone else's e-mail address in the changelog
<dholbach> yeah, the guy in the changelog should get katie's mail
<Riddell> hmm, he hasn't
<dholbach> oh well, maybe elmo didn't whitelist his mail adress yet
<dholbach> he has to have a look at   wiki/Uploads
<uniq> hmm.. how long does it take from i upload to revu till it shows in the page?
<uniq> i suspect my upload took of into /dev/null..
<siretart> uniq: processing of uploads is done via cronjob every 5 minutes
<uniq> siretart: ah.. ok :)
<siretart> uniq: http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=114
<siretart> this one? ;)
* uniq waits for the page to laod.
<uniq> yes, there it is.
<uniq> :)
<siretart> uniq: is kio-apt in debian?
<pef_aw> bye !
<siretart> bye pef_aw
<uniq> siretart: no, it's not.
<siretart> uniq: I was wondering because of the changelog
<uniq> siretart: upstream packaging.
<siretart> uniq: I tool only a short glance, looks in general good, but use 0ubuntu1 rather than 1ubuntu1 for initial upload
<uniq> OK.
<siretart> uniq: does upstream have an alternate/real changelog?
<uniq> i was told to use 1ubuntu1 the other day.
<siretart> uniq: huh? no thats not right for NEW packages. who told you that?
<uniq> hang on, grep logs.
<siretart> anyway, this must have been a misunderstanding
<siretart> uniq: regarding debian/changelog, if upstream maintains another changelog file, remove old debian/changelog entries. they are irrelevant then
<uniq> 23:52 <  siretart> I think we agreed on 1ubuntu1
<uniq> you told me.
<siretart> waah
<uniq> siretart: debian/changelog is much more complete.. the other changelog contains 7 lines.. changes from 0.1 to 0.2 irrelevant.
<siretart> silly me. I take everything back and claim the opposide :)
<uniq> noticed anything besides the versioning before i do another upload?
<siretart> uniq: to correct myself: if there is a -1 revision in ubuntu -1ubuntu1 is right. if there is no package at all in ubuntu, -0ubuntu1 is correct, because then a -1 revision would be higher, and we are able to import that revision from debian, should that package appear there
<siretart> looks fine, you could state in the changelog that you added an icon, and where it is from
<uniq> yes, i know, that's why i've used 0ubuntu1 on kio-locate as an example.. ok i'll add the changelog thing too.
* ajmitch wishes he knew what the revu icons mean :)
<siretart> ajmitch: hold the mouse abouve the icons ;)
<ajmitch> siretart: well that's just annoying to do :)
<siretart> ajmitch: hm. you're right, I should do some descriptive text above
<uniq> is it just me or is the debdiff in revu the wrong way? it says - on the lines i've added.
<siretart> uniq: you mean this debdiff, right? http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/diff.py?upid1=114&upid2=117
<ajmitch> uniq: example?
<uniq> http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/diff.py?upid1=117&upid2=114
<uniq> and some text is missing from the web-thing..
<uniq> because i pout it in <>
<uniq> *put
<siretart> uniq: ha, so you are comparing the older upload to the newer upload ;)
<siretart> uniq: upid1 is the first parameter to debdiff, so take care ;)
<uniq> ok, then the link doesn't do what's expected :)
#ubuntu-motu 2005-07-17
<siretart> it does
<siretart> but you have to look at details.py at the most current upload
<siretart> (watch the upid parameter in the url)
<ajmitch> siretart: it's not his fault, I see the same thing if I go to http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=114
<siretart> damn you are right!
<uniq> told you :)
<ajmitch> because the latest upload is 117
<siretart> how can this happen?
<ajmitch> which is what is seen from the main page
<siretart> ar, mom
<ajmitch> but if you keep looking at the 114 page, then you'll get new uploads show there :)
<siretart> hm
<ajmitch> sigh, >1000 unread on debian-devel
<siretart> you all confuse me :)
* ajmitch doesn't have the time to burn for that
<ajmitch> siretart: that's what we're here for ;)
<siretart> the main page shows only upload 117, and the linked debdiff is somehow 'correct', is it?
<ajmitch> siretart: yes
<siretart> then there is no bug at all, is there?
* ajmitch feels like doing some debian work at some point
<siretart> ajmitch: apropos debian, when do you think gravity will upload xorg to unstable?
<siretart> I'm a bit concerned about opengl build dependency issues
<ajmitch> siretart: not sure, I think he was talking about after the c++ transition in debian
<ajmitch> to avoid having 2 big breakages at once
<ajmitch> brb
<uniq> siretart: there is a bug if you reload the upid=114 page, do you expect people to start all over again from the main page when a package is updated?
<siretart> ajmitch: well, the transition will last months! I cannot imagine he wants to wait that long..
<siretart> uniq: no, but I expect people to klick on the 'latest' upload before pressing 'debdiff'
<siretart> uniq: I know its a bit confusing, I try to get a more intutive ui for revu2
<ajmitch> siretart: no it won't
<ajmitch> you underestimate the power of >1000 DDs :)
<ajmitch> people don't like a broken sid, so there are going to be NMU policies for outstanding packages
<uniq> siretart: ok. :)
<ajmitch> I'd say that a *lot* more people use sid than breezy
<siretart> for sure, yes
<ajmitch> I've got to spend more time than I have been on debian
<ajmitch> I want to see etch rock, just like I want to see breezy & its successors rock ;)
<siretart> .oO( sometimes it has advantages having few packages to maintain [2 for me atm]  :)
<ajmitch> I've just got 10 in debian, but that's really just 2 upstream projects
* siretart is sure that etch will rock
<ajmitch> especially if we try & get as much of our work back into etch as is possible
<siretart> gn8 folks. (falling from chair)
<slomo> gn8 siretart
<dholbach> bye siretart
<ajmitch> night siretart
<uniq> gnite siretart.
<uniq> anyone up for looking at kio-apt? i would really appreciate it. - http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=117
<dholbach> good night everybody
<uniq> gnite.
* terrex se va a mimir, tamn
<daniels> yo guys
<daniels> what's the process to go through to get a new package into universe?
<daniels> i'd like to see xvattr from marillat imported, since it's bloody useful
<Amaranth> put it in revu?
<Amaranth> i mean, after you've made/ported the package
<daniels> the packaging is already done
<daniels> am I allowed to just directly nominate stuff in UniverseCandidates?
<tseng> daniels: the usual process is to upload to Revu and get three MOTUs to sign off
<daniels> oh, rad
<daniels> missed that part of the topic, sorry
<tseng> its like mentors.debian on speed
<daniels> heh
* |QuaD-_ is waiting for 3 MOTU's to sign off on gaim assistant :)
<Amaranth> daniels: while you're here: E: /var/cache/apt/archives/xcursor-themes_1.0.0-1_all.deb:  trying to overwrite `/etc/X11/cursors/core.theme', which is also in package xlibs-data
<daniels> Amaranth: interesting; that should be conflicting
<daniels> whoops!  i'm shit
<daniels> Amaranth: good catch, thanks
<Amaranth> they should be?
<Amaranth> i thought xcursor-themes was split off from xlibs-data
<daniels> fix uploaded
<daniels> yeah, it is
<daniels> but it needs to conflict/replace the old version
<Amaranth> ah
<Amaranth> time to see if X works
<Amaranth> yay
<Amaranth> brb then, need to restart
<uniq> gnite.
* schweeb sets tseng on fire
<pepsix> howdy hi :D
<pepsix> i was wondering why gradio gets installed into /usr/X11R6
<ajmitch> because it hasn't been fixed & noone has yet filed a bug on malone to tell us of the problem
<pepsix> ajmitch, i see
<pepsix> shall i file a bug?
<pef> hi
<robitaille> question: I just noticed that wxpython isn't in Breezy, but was in Hoary.  is that a temporary problem or a permanent feature?
<Burgundavia> wxwidgets is having some issues in general, I have noticed
<JanC> robitaille : wxpython 2.4 is in breezy AFAIK
<JanC> wxPython 2.5/2.6 isn't yet
<JanC> libwxgtk2.4-python
<robitaille> Burgundavia: 2.6 is coming soon?  It seems iPodder (which works fine in Hoary) doesn't in Breezy.  Looking at its release note, it appears the requirement is for wxpython2.5
<Burgundavia> like I said before the netsplit, 2.5 had some license issues
<Burgundavia> that 2.6 clears up
<robitaille> Burgundavia:  but do you know if that "soon" for an incoming 2.6 is in the Breezy time frame or not?
<pef> I want to package a library, in the source I have the library and binaries using this library. Should I built multiples packages, like libfoo-bin, libfoo-dev, libfoo for example ?
<\sh> sure...something like this...or "foo" "libfoo" and "libfoo-dev"
<pef> ok, another question : all the packages in breezy will have a backport for hoary ?
<Burgundavia> pef, if a backport request is put in and it is sane
<pef> ok, thank you :)
<\sh> ogra: scott didn't reply
<ogra> \sh, scott ?
<\sh> wine
<\sh> scott?
<\sh> sure scott ritchie
<ogra> ah, ok
<\sh> but anyways...
<ogra> yes
<ajmitch> hi ogra, \sh
<\sh> when I build his packages, put some replaces, conflicts and provides etc. in it, to match the debian binary package names...we should get a clean package
<\sh> hey aj
<ajmitch> ogra: so we should start asking elmo for syncs to unstable then? :)
<ogra> ajmitch, yes, but note we have UVF for universe too
<ajmitch> ogra: yes, I know
<ogra> so it will always get checked through somemain guy
<Burgundavia> ogra, see that gnome power 0.1.0 has hit
<pef> if I have errors like "E: Broken packages" when I tried to install packages, should I made a bug report ?
<ajmitch> ogra: well doko is the debian comaintainer of this package (python-imaging), but he uploaded to sid about the same time that UVF hit
<ogra> Burgundavia, yes, till examining it... i doubt we need it... we already have pmi
<ajmitch> just a minor release
<ogra> s/till/still
<ogra> ajmitch, sync it :)
<Burgundavia> ogra, don't know whether it will be mature enough for breezy, but it seems like the way forward
<ajmitch> ogra: ok, will ask elmo
<ogra> Burgundavia, it has to be mature enough.... the question is with which version we'll go.... the current one needs loads of integration work... the next one should do better since hughsie now works very closely to us
<Burgundavia> cool
<sivang> any idea when PHP5 packages will be ready?
<Treenaks> sivang: when you make them :P
<sivang> Treenaks: hehe
<sivang> Treenaks: Well, I understood it's better to wait for the debian maintainer to do them
<Treenaks> sivang: maybe you can help?
<sivang> Treenaks: how?
<Treenaks> sivang: I don't know, ask him :)
<sivang> Treenaks: he's around here any time?
<ajmitch> sivang: sure, the php4 maintainer is infinity
<sivang> ah! I had no idea
<sivang> :-
<ajmitch> and I see dilinger is listed as a co-maintainer
<pef> do you think it may be usefull to make ubuntu package of marillat repository ?
<Burgundavia> pef, that kind of stuff cannot be in the ubuntu repos
<Burgundavia> and the backports people have a repo of it
<pef> Burgundavia: because of legal issues ?
<sivang> guys, what would be the right way to work with pbuilder? do changes out of the chroot to the package, then just use it for building?
<Burgundavia> pef, most of the stuff in marilliat is copyright or patent landmines
<pef> ohh ok
<Burgundavia> like w32codecs is completely illegal
<Burgundavia> both in the copyright and patent snese
<Lathiat> indeed
<\sh> hmmm
<ogra> sivang, get the source with apt-get, make changes, docuent them with dch -i, build the source package with fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -S, then runn sudo pbuilder build ../foo.dsc
<\sh> 30 packages can't be downloaded...*raisemybrow*
<Treenaks> \sh: apt-get update
<\sh> treen: no jigdo
<Treenaks> \sh: mmmmh
<\sh> trying to get a iso image ,-)
<Treenaks> rsync :)
<sivang> ogra: but after I built it with dpkg-buildpackage, or debuild for that matter, why do I need pbuilder? To make sure it builds in a clean chroot?
<ogra> to make sure it builds on the buildd, yes... it checks the build-deps etc
<sivang> ogra: ah cool, so it's mostly a tool to make sure something will buildd :-)
<Treenaks> sivang: you only build the source (tar.gz/diff/dsc) with dpkg-buildpacke
<ogra> sivang, yes and to give you a package thats built like on the buildd to test it
<Treenaks> sivang: you make the binaries with pbuilder
<\sh> sivang: it's a tool to see if it's build on your arch and it's another question if it's build on the buildd for other archs and also including your tested one ,-)
<sivang> \sh: that's for sure :-) Guess I better be having my targetted arch near me
<\sh> ok..installing daily breezy inside vmware
<pef> Is it possible to add a package entry to malone ? libsdl1.2-dev isn't included in package list
<Amaranth> file a bug
<pef> ok, thanks
<ogra> pef, main packages are not in malone
<ogra> pef, bugzilla.ubuntu.com is the right place
<Amaranth> oh, duh
<Amaranth> didn't look at the package name :P
<pef> I'm sure it is possible to add a package name
<ogra> nope, only for the launcpad guys
<Amaranth> anyone not running breezy, you're missing out on http://dev.realistanew.com/shiny2.png
<ogra> it would produce havoc if everybody could add packages as he likes
<Lathiat> Amaranth: rocks doesnt it
<Lathiat> Amaranth: whats that icon next to yoru clock
<Amaranth> volume?
<Lathiat> oh
<Lathiat> just a weird icon theme
<Amaranth> i've got andy's new theme
<Lathiat> also since when is the application icon canonicals logo
<ogra> Amaranth, i'm just packaging it ;)
<Amaranth> i did that
<Lathiat> ah
<Lathiat> it should be that
<Amaranth> yes it should
<ogra> Lathiat, it will
<Lathiat> ogra: cool
<Lathiat> but we're not going to have a stupid sidebar right
<Lathiat> down the menu
<Amaranth> *shudder*
<ogra> its planned to go with Andys theme, he already has the icon ready
<Amaranth> sidebar?
<Lathiat> Amaranth: well some othe rdistros patche dthe application menu
<Lathiat> to have a sidebar that says
<Lathiat> "Novell"
<Amaranth> make it a gconf option
<Lathiat> or whatever
<Lathiat> like windows does
<ogra> Lathiat, only if we find a decent photo of you to put it there ;)
<Lathiat> ogra: ;p
<Amaranth> ogra: If you're packaging humility, please symlink gnome-fs-ftp.png to gnome-fs-ssh.png
<ogra> hmm, thats Andys job...
<Lathiat> i dont like th evolume icon
* Amaranth loves it
<Amaranth> the stock icons are cool too
<jsgotangco> brb
<Lathiat> ive yet to find an icon theme i like
<Lathiat> other than gnome
<Lathiat> whatever fedora uses is... livable
<Amaranth> fedora uses bluecurve
<Mez> poop
<Mez> poop
<Amaranth> HostingGeek: I have a feeling you're up to no good with the 'Mircosoft' nick.
<HostingGeek> Amaranth: no...
<HostingGeek> MirCosoft
<HostingGeek> Mir and Co Software
<ivoks> hi
<ivoks> siretart: ping
<Mez> same for me :d
<Amaranth> does anyone know whether or not livejournals have RSS feeds
<Mithrandir> they do, just add /data/rss to the end
<Amaranth> coolness
<siretart> Mez: next time, better make your backups on something more reliable, like CD-r or DVD-RAM
<Mez> lol :D I'm going to :D
<Mez> gotta get kgpg recognising my keystore first thgouh
<Mez> yeah :D
<Mez> siretart: what email do I send it to?
<siretart> Mez: thats documented on the REVU wiki page ;) - siretart@tauware.de
<Mez> siretart, can I not just link you my webpage ?
<Mez> http://www.sourceguru.net/pgp
<siretart> I cannot do it right now, please send me an email I won't forget it when I find some time
<Mez> lol
<Mez> yeah, that depends on me reme3mbering when I set up my email client again
<Hieronymus> ik denk dat ik dat nickserv script m'n wachtwoord nog moet vertellen..
<ogra> Hieronymus, really ?
<Hieronymus> wrong channel
<ogra> heh
<ogra> i guessed that
<schweeb> I think I killed tseng
<schweeb> I set him on fire last night, and he hasn't spoken since
<\sh> bad boy ... what you gonna do...without tseng...no mono debs anymore...
<\sh> ,-)
<schweeb> pfft, tseng is overrated :P
<ogra> he's probably still busy with burning
<Mez> who's tseng setting fire to ?
<schweeb> 22:14  * schweeb sets tseng on fire
* Mez creates a tgz of his whole system and burns to CD
<schweeb> I so wanna just go back to bed right now
<schweeb> but I have to work
<schweeb> :(
<Mez> lol
<Mez> I gotta go job centre in a mo
<chrissturm> guys, anyone working on fixing pgadmin3?
<schweeb> is there a bug filed on it?
<Mez> aw no! I gotta reset up my pbuilds!
<Mez> grr
<chrissturm> schweeb, dunno, i just tried to build it myself, but it failed with a strange error
<schweeb> alright, I've exceeded my talk minutes for the morning
<schweeb> time to head to work
<schweeb> later dudes
<pef> could someone have a look to http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=118 please , thanks !
<ivoks> siretart: ping
<pef> if I find only a .deb for a program, but no package sources, must I building a new package ? (for ubuntu)
<Panzerboy> !forums alsaconf
<\sh> pef: apt-cache showsrc <package> ?
<ogra> pef, ask the guy who built the deb first
<pef> \sh: not an official one
<Panzerboy> sorry, wrong channel :)
<pef> ogra: already done :)
<\sh> pef: so ogras statement is uberruling
<ivoks> i'll hurt siretart :)
<pef> \sh: so with only a .deb I can't do anything I presume ?
<\sh> nope
<pef> mm
<pef> I find some applications with only an unofficial .deb file, can I make a ubuntu version, so it will be imported into debian official tree ?
<\sh> pef: ask the maintainer...debian packages are individual..so there's always a maintainer
<pef> \sh: and if the maintainer doesn't want/doesn't have time to produce an official package ? What should I do if I want to make an ubuntu version ?
<\sh> pef: assk him to take over his work, file an ITP or RFP at bugs.debian.org
<\sh> prepare a package for ubuntu anyways, and put it on MOTUToReview or UniverseCandidates
<pef> ok, thank you
<JRe> pef: what package it is?
<pef> JRe: http://miniracer.sourceforge.net/#dload for example, i've contacted the author
<JRe> pef: hehe cool game :)
<pef> yep :)
<Amaranth> most of the time they'll have a debian dir in CVS if they are making debs
<siretart> damn. missed ivoks again :)
<pef> I need a sympatic motu :) http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=111
<comadreja> if you find one, let him know about this http://siretart.tauware.de/revu/details.py?upid=101
<pef> comadreja: I already find 2 , I just need the last one ;)
<comadreja> mine is an update, I only need one too :)
<siretart> comadreja: I just made an comment to your upload, but I don't have time to make a post to ubuntu-devel about the aalib-> libaa transition
<siretart> comadreja: this is indeed a problem which needs to be decided. If you have time, could you perhaps prepare a wiki package with pro and cons, pointers to past discussions about libaa transition? we will need that discussion anyway, I think
<comadreja> cool siretart
<siretart> I don't know if thats that cool, but I think its a necessary evil :(
<comadreja> siretart : but how is kismet related to libaa ?
<siretart> comadreja: ah, you wasn't talking about libsdl? then forget my comment ;)
<comadreja> siretart : :) right away
<pef> siretart: it's me for the libsdl upload ;)
<siretart> pef: ok, then you know what to do ;)
<pef> siretart: yes, waiting the decision
<siretart> I'd rather kick of that discussion myself, but I
<siretart> but I'm too busy right now :(
<chrissturm> how do i search if there is a package in debian for something?
* chrissturm needs wxgtk 2.6
<jamessan|work> "apt-cache search" is usually a good way
<siretart> chrissturm: use packages.debian.org
<siretart> ok, ivoks still not here. and I gotta go
<siretart> if ivoks returns (perhaps in 10 mins) tell him I'll really try to attend the TB Meeting tonight.
<siretart> cu all!
<chrissturm> bye
<pef> bye
<chrissturm> hmm, i would like to make packages for wxwindows 2.6, but when i uupdate -u ../wxGTK-2.6.1.tar.bz2 in the /wxwindows2.4-2.4.3.1ubuntu2 directory i get uupdate: "a native Debian package cannot take upstream updates" whats the reason for this? how can i make a wxgtk-2.6 package from a wxgtk-2.4 package?
<ogra> chrissturm, they get synced from debian, no need to make new ones
<chrissturm> ogra: there was a wx...2.5 package in ubuntu, but now there's only 2.4
<ogra> chrissturm, yes, we were waiting for 2.6 to apear in debian, which happened today
<chrissturm> ah, great
<chrissturm> ogra, can you explain what the error message means anyway?
<ogra> you cant work with the bz2 right out the box... dpkg needs a orig.tar.gz ....
<chrissturm> ok, i thought man uupdate mentioned that it supports bz2.
<chrissturm> but thanks, i will just wait then
<ogra> you can easily do it with cdbs afaik, but wxgtk is a beast it will take a lot of time to get the package right and you needa big disk...
<chrissturm> too much for me as a .deb beginner then :)
<ogra> yes, its nothing for beginners :)
<chrissturm> i think ghc (haskell compiler) also needs a .deb pro
<ogra> \sh, djvulibre builds this time :)
<slomo> chrissturm: is ghc broken atm?
<chrissturm> slomo, yep, ghc6
* chrissturm doesnt care much about haskell, but darcs would be fine :)
<chrissturm> funny that darcs is written in haskell
<slomo> chrissturm: what exactly?
* chrissturm waits for someone to code a rcs in smalltalk
<chrissturm> slomo, it doesnt build because of the cxx transition
<slomo> chrissturm: hm, maybe i'll look at it this weekend but don't expect too much as i'm also a beginner ;)
<chrissturm> slomo: ghc6 depends on ghc6, and on some other packages that also depend on ghc6
<slomo> chrissturm: wtf... it depends on itself? ok, nothing for me ;)
<Firetech> I'm trying to make a package here, and it requires an xserver to connect to to work, how should I specify that in the dependencies?
<Lathiat> eww
<Lathiat> thats evil
<Lathiat> and that wont work on a buildd
<Lathiat> Firetech: what is it?
<Firetech> GNU sourceinstall
<Lathiat> what does it want an x server for?
<Firetech> I run it in a chroot, without X installed, and get this:
<Firetech> invalid command name "font"
<Firetech>     while executing
<Firetech> "font create font_button -family Helvetica -size 10 -weight normal"
<dholbach_> hellas
<Firetech>     (procedure "init_fonts" line 2)
<Firetech>     invoked from within
<Firetech> "init_fonts"
<Firetech>     (file "/usr/bin/sourceinstall" line 3148)
<Firetech> 
<Lathiat> that doesnt necesarily mean you need an X server
* Lathiat looks
<dholbach_> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps   <-  this should be funny :))
<jbailey> ogra: What?!?  Did I see you *recommend* cdbs earlier?
<Firetech> but if i prefix the command with DISPLAY=:0 (thus connect it to the xserver outside the chroot) it works fine
* dholbach_ hugs jbailey for CDBS-ness :)
<ogra> jbailey, for bz2 based beasts ;)
<jbailey> =)
<Firetech> Lathiat: do you want to test the package I've made?
<tseng> schweeb: some of us have real jobs
<tseng> schweeb: not pushing tapes around
<dholbach> how are you guys?
<tseng> hi dholbach
<havoc> jbailey: hiya
<jbailey> havoc: hello
<havoc> chillywilly got me using ubuntu now
<jbailey> Cool. =)
<dholbach> :-)
<havoc> so I'm lurking here to see how things are done ;)
<jbailey> Nice.  =)  The MOTUs are the backbone of much of what's cool about Ubuntu.
<havoc> yeah, I'm also on #ubuntu-devel
<jbailey> If you have time to help, it would probably be *very* welcome.
<havoc> I avoid the main "user" channels
<havoc> I prever the developer channels to see how the beast is put together and maintainde
<havoc> e.g. I've *been* using mandrake for years, and have been on #mandrake-cooker for years
<havoc> thinking of moving *all* my stuff to ubuntu though
<havoc> at least all the stuff *I* maintain
<jbailey> I didn't know mandrake had much in the way of community development.
<Mez> hehe havoc-  I just did that
<havoc> jbailey: yeah, they do
<Mez> cause Windows Recovery Console wiped my Partition table
<havoc> Mez: :(
<jbailey> Funny, I wiped Windows off my laptop about 2 hours ago.
<havoc> I'm working on a report for a "linux office" right now for a consulting firm
<havoc> probably going to recomend ubuntu
<havoc> they are debian people right now, so it shouldn't be difficult
<havoc> most of the report is about translating the way office workers work in Windows to linux though
<havoc> not really distro-specific
<havoc> that and various stages of licensing
<havoc> "fun" stuff :(
<havoc> but I'm really liking ubuntu so far
<havoc> the thing that I really like is the backports repository
<Lathiat> ugh
<Lathiat> bugports
<havoc> as I understand it, that is where I'd get apps as they are released by their developers
<havoc> yes?  No?
<Lathiat> havoc: No, they are applications backported from the development version to the current stable version
<havoc> ah
<Lathiat> havoc: that are unfortunately broken in too many cases
<Lathiat> depends what you want
<Firetech> Lathiat: I've used backports and backports-staging for quite some time, and it never has been broken.
<havoc> what I want is a way to get apps like mysql/apache/postfix/etc.. as they are released without waiting for the next release of ubuntu
<Lathiat> Firetech: depends what you use...
<Lathiat> havoc: release are only 6 months apart
<Lathiat> havoc: for server stuff ike that, thats not an issue
<Lathiat> for most people anyway
<havoc> ok
<havoc> I'm not talking security related stuff, as I'm sure that's already handled
<Lathiat> not in backports
<havoc> no, I mean officially
<Lathiat> yes
<Lathiat> but if you install backports stuff you wont get them
<sladen> *cough* use the multiverse *cough*
<sladen> gah, scrollback
<tseng> uh
<havoc> sladen: I'm still investigating/learning :)
<tseng> sladen: here, have some context clues
<sladen> tseng: :-0)
<sladen> :-)
<havoc> Lathiat: so say a new version of postgresql is released between releases of ubuntu and I just *have* to have it right away, would I be able to get it without building from source?
<Lathiat> havoc: no, but if you *really* need it you could build a package yourself
<tseng> postgres? not a chance
<havoc> Lathiat: ok
<Lathiat> havoc: that situation is unlikely however
<tseng> software in main is not to be screwed with
<tseng> upon pain of death
<havoc> I assume he meant build my own package locally
<Lathiat> synaptic-0.56+reverted+to+0.55+hoary+official
* Lathiat umbles
<Lathiat> err, mumbles
* tseng feigns impartialness
* havoc is impartial
<havoc> well, 'lazy' anyway
<tseng> From:   "linuxfanatic1024" <dlist@ubuntuforums.org>
<tseng> Pardon me for asking this, but why do we need .NET for Linux development
<tseng> anyway? Isn't that an M$ only thing?
<tseng> i *was* falling asleep
<Lathiat> heh
<chrissturm> tseng: do you know this ide: http://www.omnicore.com/xdevelop.htm looks very nice
<Lathiat> i tried it out
<Lathiat> it... works
<Lathiat> cool that it supports mono
<Lathiat> and has all the magic, context help etc
<Lathiat> but i just cant stand ides like that
<chrissturm> it seems to be the most complete refactoring ide for .net and mono
<Lathiat> altho context help is nice
<tseng> we are shipping monodevelop
<Lathiat> iirc xdevleop is non-free anyway
<Lathiat> i think you get a 30 day trial or something
<chrissturm> tseng, i know, but x-develop is much more advanced
<chrissturm> right
<Lathiat> advancaed is subjective
<chrissturm> of course
<tseng> monodevelop doesnt start at $300
<Lathiat> exactly
<Lathiat> also
<Lathiat> building kernels on 133mhz mips with 2M/s disk io isnt fun
<chrissturm> i am doing a lot of java development
<Lathiat> in case anyone was wandering
<Lathiat> chrissturm: eclipse!
<Lathiat> at least its free, anyway
<chrissturm> i could use eclipse which is free
<tseng> chrissturm: if you want to use it, be our guest :)
<tseng> i have about . this much interest
<chrissturm> but i use IDEA which costs 599usd
<Lathiat> tseng: that much? wow
<chrissturm> hehe
<tseng> Lathiat: enlarged to show texture
<Lathiat> ... 23 minutes in i just hit mm/
<tseng> kernel?
<Lathiat> yeh
<Lathiat> all thsi just to get my indycam working :P
<Lathiat> heh
<Lathiat> produces pure black images on 2.4.27
<Lathiat> trying 2.6.12
<tseng> the last shot i saw from one "working" was all green
<tseng> im not sure what the attraction is
<Lathiat> tseng: because i have one
<tseng> throw it out :)
<Lathiat> haha
<Lathiat> sif
<slomo> what has to be done when a package in the archive has broken (binary) dependencies which could be solved just by a rebuild? add build1 to the version or something else?
<Lathiat> increment the debian version?
<Lathiat> i.e. 2.3-1ubuntu1 -> 2.3-1ubuntu2 :: not that i know
<dholbach> doko added "build1" to the simple c++ rebuilds
<Lathiat> ah
<dholbach> i'm not sure when to use it and when to do something else
<tseng> ogra knows
<dholbach> i guess it makes sense, when there is no ubuntu revision yet
<ogra> build1 is right
<ogra> ye
<ogra> s
<slomo> ogra: ok, thanks :)
<Lathiat> night all
<dholbach> but assume this case: 5.4-2 (debian version), we add a fix -> 5.4-2ubuntu1 -> now it has to be rebuilt for another reason - why add build1? if we sync 5.4-3 from debian, there have merges to be done anyway
<dholbach> night lamont
<dholbach> night Lathiat
<dholbach> GRMBL
<Lathiat> :)
<dholbach> perhaps to indicate that it was rebuilt
<dholbach> ... *shrug*
<lamont__> afternoon dholbach  :-)
<ogra> dholbach, your first guess was right
<chrissturm> dholbach: if its ubuntu once it stays ubuntu
<ogra> you dont add bildX to ubuntuX versions
<dholbach> yeah
<dholbach> so everybody knows now
<dholbach> :)
<ogra> dholbach, why havent you been at the distro team meeting in udu? :)
<Mez> ogra, wanna talk tonight about backports?
<dholbach> ogra: i'm not sure, what i did then
<dholbach> something important obviously
<ogra> Mez, i'm a bit busy today...
<ogra> Mez, oh, you mean at the TB meeting ?
<ogra> sure, why not
<tseng> (we already had a backports meeting?)
<tseng> it was my understanding we are still waiting for certain people to come through with things they said they would do
<ogra> tseng, yes, but the infrastructure is in place now and we'll need a policy
<tseng> we discussed a policy
<tseng> it was not documented as we agreed on
<slomo> Mez: i've created the backports wikipage on saturday... is everything ok this way?
<tseng> same as no one filled out the agenda for the first meeting
<tseng> until i forced MOTUs to do it on the day of
<Mez> slomo :D looks cool :d
<Mez> ogra, yeah :D
<Mez> tseng: we need to sort out how it's going to go about :d we've got the sbuild's in place
<Mez> but we need to know whether we do direct uploads, or whther theres somethign we poke and it auto-backports
<Mez> mdz said something we poke, adn then we fix thigns in breezy if they dont automatically do it, which I agree..
* ogra goes to mow the lawn.... afk for 30min
<Mez> but... so far just the sbuilds are in place and I know nothing more than that
<Mez> there's rules on WHAT to backport but not HOW
<tseng> that sounds like a question for mdz to me
<tseng> meh.
<Burgundavia> I think we were wating for jdong to get his key signed, afaicr
<Mez> yeah, but - it should still go through tech board aswell :d
<dholbach> there seems to be some stuff missing on CxxLibraryList
<Mez> Burgundavia, if there's no direct upload, we don't need that
<apokryphos> Hi guys, trying to make a package. Reading the notes, "Packages not in debian yet should start with revision -0ubuntu1"... should they really *start*, with that?
<tseng> Mez: uh
<tseng> Mez: we definately do.
<chrissturm> apokryphos, nope, end
<Mez> tseng: why? if all he does is say "backport this"
<Mez> rahter than actually MAKING the backport
<apokryphos> chrissturm: Thanks. Also, where (of all places), should the extra -0ubuntu1 be specified?
<tseng> i cant imagine anyone getting access to any part of ubuntu infrastrcture w/o having a strongly signed key
<Mez> then he doesnt necessarily need one
<tseng> proof of identity
<apokryphos> chrissturm: suffice it to say, I'm new to this.
<Mez> tseng - he can do a public notary for that
<Mez> + until this morning, I had a signed key.
<Mez> lol
* Mez is an idiot
<tseng> I really dont see anyone influencing the archives, automated or not, with no keys
<tseng> but lets just leave that as speculation
<apokryphos> Anyone else? Where should the extra -0ubuntu1 be specified? Just in the debian/changelog?
<dholbach> apokryphos: yes
<apokryphos> thanks
<\sh> *yawn* evening
<dholbach> we really should add  -Werror  by default
<\sh> just in time :)
<comadreja> \sh : I saw in some irc logs on google that you had a problem with pbuilder
<\sh> comadreja: not anymore :) pbuilder and I are good friends in the meantime ;)
<comadreja> \sh : some error on update-notifier that doesn't let you create the base
<comadreja> \sh : great, how did you solve it, I'm having it now
<\sh> i removed it in /etc/pbuilder/apt.conf/....
<comadreja> removed what ?
<\sh> u copy /etc/apt to /etc/pbuilder/apt.conf/
<comadreja> yep
<\sh> and in apt.conf.d/ there is a 99update-notifier
<\sh> rm 99update-notifier
<comadreja> oh, cool :D
<comadreja> thanks a million :)
<\sh> but important notice
<\sh> never try to build a pbuilder right now with breezy...it doesn't work
<\sh> create a pbuilder for hoary and update it to breezy as on the PbuilderHowto explained
<comadreja> oh, yes, that I know
<comadreja> but it did even fail with hoary
<\sh> not for me anymore..i'm running 2 pbuilders right now, one hoary and one breezy..and I just some examples from pbuilder homepage..
<\sh> they're helping a lot
<comadreja> you could wirte a howto on the wiki
<\sh> ogra: ping btw
<\sh> comadreja: I would like..in the moment I'm lacking of time :( I need to write my howto to the end for building packages from scratch :( I need free time ..
<comadreja> \sh: that would help a lot of people, including me
<\sh> comadreja: i know :)
<\sh> and I would like to take the pain from everybody
<comadreja> that's really nice of you
<\sh> comadreja: it's difficult right now for me, to find the right time schedule...I want to get rid of all this cxx trans crap..and we need to rebuild 515 apps at least for the cxx trans...I need to right docs..I want to get in touch with ogra and power manager and I need to get my fingers on a kde interface for updatemanager
<comadreja> \sh: that's a lot of work... I could help with the cxx thans
<\sh> comadreja: apt-cache rdepends libstdc++5
<\sh> check the apps and take some from universe
<comadreja> thanks, that also should be documented on the wiki
<comadreja> because I'm finding quite
<comadreja> quite difficult to gather the appropriate information
<dholbach> \sh: some could be on UniverseUnmetDeps as well
<dholbach> \sh: i found a lib which wasn't on CxxLibraryList yet
<\sh> dholbach: yeah
<dholbach> \sh: and i'm sure, we'll find some others as well
<\sh> we have a bloody load of work...and it would be nice, to get all 20 motus
<dholbach> absolutely
<dholbach> for reviewing as well
<\sh> dholbach: we find them in main, we find them everywhere
<dholbach> we're drowning in work :)
<\sh> dholbach: split work sometimes :) is the best
<dholbach> but we'll make it
<\sh> actually...now we have a mistress ,-) she'll whip us to hell if we don't make it ,-)
<dholbach> i hope that helps
<dholbach> i'll do my part and get my thesis done :-)
<\sh> heard u r from september on in berlin?
<dholbach> YES! :-D
<dholbach> ROCK'N'ROLL!
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> the first 2 weeks of september i don't know what I should do...and Treenaks wants to visit berlin...so
<Treenaks> \sh: yes, exactly :)
<\sh> and no: I DON'T WANT TO WORK ,-)
<dholbach> hahahaha
<\sh> lifting glasses of beer, ok, but less hacking on a keyboard
<\sh> I really need some releave
<dholbach> my place will be a complete mess, but i won't say no to some beer :)
<\sh> dholbach: that's a word...and my place is also a mess..so don't clean up the mess *lol*
<dholbach> everything still in boxes, ...
<dholbach> come on guys, everybody picks 2 packages from UniverseUnmetDeps
<dholbach> then 2 new ones
<dholbach> most of them are easy stuff
<comadreja> I'll take two, recommendations ?
<dholbach> make them build and installable
<Treenaks> \sh, dholbach, ogra: we need to coordinate about this a bit more :)
<dholbach> pick any :)
<\sh> what's this?
<comadreja> something easy ...
<\sh> it's a mess
<\sh> there is a mess on the wiki pae
<\sh> +g
<comadreja> first two ?
<\sh> ah come on...easy crap
<dholbach> comadreja: ace will be a pain, ask \sh
<\sh> don't take ace
<\sh> ace will be fixed by debian upstream
<dholbach> \sh: there are ~400 packages, please don't make it a LOOOONG table :)
<\sh> no wais
<\sh> -i+y
<\sh> I'll delete them _one ... by .... one_
<comadreja> then, not ace
<comadreja> ac12 ?
<\sh> comadreja: whatever u like I'm starting in the middle
<\sh> and when we're finished with the meeting, we're done, ok?
<comadreja> I start at the beginning :)
<comadreja> hehe
<\sh> at least I will get a complain from elmo, why again I'm poking the buildd ,-
<\sh> )
<dholbach> i take gnucash
* Treenaks hands dholbach the rusty spoon
<dholbach> Treenaks: what do you want me to do with it?
<Treenaks> dholbach: oh, just look at the gnucash source.. you'll figure it out
<dholbach> yeah, i patched it one time :)
<\sh> dholbach is my man :)
<comadreja> damn, now pbuilder fails to update
<comadreja> Errors were encountered while processing:
<comadreja>  dhcp3-client
<comadreja>  ubuntu-minimal
<comadreja>  ubuntu-base
<\sh> dholbach: we can discuss it here on -motu
<\sh> dholbach: I just talked with ogra about wine.
<\sh> and pointed out that mark wants to have winehq packages from scott...and mark is ++ with it
<diamond> lo folks
<dholbach> hi diamond
<diamond> dholbach: hey
<\sh> so...what are we doing? i want to have scotts packages as well...I just mailed him, he doesn't replyed. anyways..should we take them?
<dholbach> whoever gets them in, has to take care of them
<dholbach> maintain them
<dholbach> look after them
<\sh> dholbach: I want to have scott for it...but I think he's not reachable
<dholbach> that's a problem
<ogra> dholbach, we have to have the winehq packages in breezy... no choice, sabdfls word
<\sh> dholbach: but Idon't mind to take them on my back
<dholbach> they won't work on my hardware, so i can't maintain them
<ogra> \sh, i merged your djvu changes into dokos upload... currently testbuilding...
<\sh> ah
<ogra> *sigh*
<\sh> ogra: i thought doko uploaded ,-)
<diamond> ogra: ah, the man himself!
<diamond> ogra: i have some time, just about to start poking gksudo
<dholbach> what about another review day in 2 weeks?
<ogra> \sh, doko only looked at malone
<ogra> \sh, eh didnt fix the ftbfs
<\sh> ogra: I included the ***** bugzilla entry
<ogra> i know
<\sh> ogra: which one?
<ogra> doko was blind
<ogra> of djvu
<\sh> my patch?
<ogra> yep
<\sh> what else? it worked on i386
<ogra> just building it
<dholbach> what is going on with libaa*?
<\sh> argl
<\sh> i hate this 32bit 64bit bla thing
<dholbach> somebody said something about a transition?
<\sh> ogra: can u provide me with some amd64 build logs from your pbuilder please?
<\sh> I have to poke mithrandir to exachange my ssh key
<ogra> ergh
<ogra> its nearly done with the build...
<\sh> stop it , restart and &> |mailto sh@sourcecode.de
<\sh> *blink*
<ogra> let me finish this build first, i want to have it uploaded
<dholbach> HA! 1ST PACKAGE DONE! :)))
<\sh> ogra: ok...do me a favor...upload the ftbfs package..so I can have a look at it on lamonts build logs..forppc etc.
<ogra> \sh, the ftbfs is the current one in the archive
<\sh> argl...and gnomemm needs some hate...why do i have always gnome c++ stuff?
<\sh> ogra: without my patch?
<ogra> doko only changed the missing c2 bit
<\sh> yeah
<\sh> but my patch fixed at least one ftbfs
<ogra> yep
<ogra> it built fine here... i'll upload it
<dholbach> hey sistpoty :)
<\sh> ah thank u
<\sh> welcome sistopy
<sistpoty> hi dholbach
<sistpoty> hi \sh
<sistpoty> hi all ;)
<\sh> when can we see u as a motu?
<ogra> \sh, so you still need a buildlog ?
<sistpoty> \sh: well... i've set myself on the member-page... so I think maybe soon :)
<\sh> ogra: forget it :)
* ogra stops pbuilder
<\sh> if it's compiled at amd64 everything else is not bugging me right now
<ogra> \sh, know the newest joke ?
<\sh> ogra: I'm pregnant?
<\sh> no
<\sh> ish will fire me?
<\sh> yes :)
<ogra> \sh, we'll need a new djvulibre upstream version anyway, for the next evince ;)
<\sh> *rotfl*
<\sh> thx
<\sh> u r always a friend ;)
<\sh> *lol*
<ogra> seb128 is just waiting for the next debian package
<\sh> NO!
<\sh> sistpoty: I would like to see u in our team...:)
<sistpoty> thanks, \sh
<\sh> but for main is uvf
<\sh> hard one
* diamond bangs head off bugzilla
<diamond> can anyone tell me how to file a 'wish-list' bug?
<diamond> can't see anything
<Burgundavia> severity: enhancment
<diamond> Burgundavia: ah hah. right, thanks.
<comadreja> for aboot which kernel headers should I use ?
<comadreja> 2.6.12-3 ?
<sistpoty> btw.: can anybody sync java-package from debian? current version in breezy is not working (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=313555)
<siretart> hi folks
<sistpoty> hi siretart
<dholbach> sistpoty: could you talk to doko about that? he's the java coordinator
<siretart> did the tb meeting already begin?
<dholbach> nope
<sistpoty> dholbach: ok, where do I find him?
<\sh> nope
<\sh> wrong time again on wiki page
<siretart> wrong time? when is it then?
<siretart> sistpoty: he is often around in this channel, and also in #ubuntu-devel
<sistpoty> ok, I'll try to meet him ;)
<dholbach> sistpoty: i thought he was in #u-meeting
* sistpoty is soo blind ;)
<dholbach> sistpoty: don't worry
<\sh> siretart: 22utc
<siretart> 22utc? uff. thats late..
<siretart> need to get up early.. .(
<\sh> siretart: not only u
<\sh> siretart: and right now, my new girl will like it *grmpf*
<siretart> \sh: oh. Well, I'm right now at my gf ;)
<\sh> siretart: tell her, she's not the only one
<\sh> hmm..the music: huew lewis: stuck with you ,->
<siretart> lol
<\sh> gnomemm done
<\sh> first one
<\sh> I'M done at the end of the meeting told ya ,-)
<comadreja> what happens to libgmp3 ?
<comadreja> doesn't exist ?
<ajmitch> renamed to libgmp3c2, I think
<dholbach> the packages on the list are '''sourec packages'''
<dholbach> source even
<dholbach> :)
<\sh> try to b-d to the dev packages
<siretart> dholbach: I tried to recompile kaffe, which depends on libgmp3. even after recompile ${shlibs} is still at libgmp3 instead of libgmp3c2. what I am doing wrong?
<dholbach> broken shlibs of libgmp3?
* uniq is looking for motus to advocate the upload of kio-apt.
<\sh> check libgmp3
<\sh> pls
<\sh> get the source
<\sh> and check shlibs
<\sh> (inside or outside rules)
<siretart> I'm not at home, so I cannot check gmp right now. will do tomorrow evening
<Burgundavia> tseng, can we pull in beagle .12?
<tseng> yes?
<Burgundavia> tseng, I am just being purely selfish and annoying. I suspect that .12 fixes the bloody blam memory issue
<tseng> it fixes alot of issues
<tseng> but its not just beagle, it pulls in new gmime and gsf iirc
<Burgundavia> ouch
<tseng> or is it gmime and evo-sharp
<tseng> yes
<tseng> im not in a big hurry.
<Burgundavia> ok, I will stop bugging you
<tseng> sortof demotivated by mono upstream
<\sh> ghemical finished
<\sh> no..gimageview ;)
<\sh> ghemical as well...doko did
<Mez> slomo, ping
<dholbach> siretart: it's build<n> not built<n> :)
<siretart> dholbach: damn. franconian desease... :/
<dholbach> :)
* \sh is going to sleep until 24:00 ;-)
<\sh> girl is w8ing
<Mez> dholbach, I said that too :D hehe :D
<Mez> but doesnt built<n> supercede build<N>
<Mez> siretart :D gotit?
<siretart> Mez: I sent it for you
<dholbach> please make sure, the stuff is installable after you rebuilt it (every single binary package), kthxbye :)
<siretart> dholbach: I tested it via a pbuilder hook, I will need to recheck that hook now that it obviously doesn't work :/
<dholbach> siretart: i meant everybody in here, not just you :)
<\sh> gkrelldnet_0.14.2-1build1_source.changes uploaded
<Mez> siretart - what?
<siretart> Mez: your key. to the keyserver
* Mez looks at gaim-assistant and feels a bit weird that noone'll go near it
<Mez> oh, I jsut did aswell siretart
<siretart> no problem
* siretart follows \sh's example ;)
<\sh> hehhe
<\sh> I just can't get enough ... from my girl :)
<comadreja> I'm fixing gcl, but the fix involves changing code from original... should I continue ? I have already fixed some
<\sh> comadreja: patchwork :)
<\sh> diff -ue
<\sh> -e+r
<dholbach> that needs to be put in debian/patches
<\sh> + mkdir debian/patches + vi rules
<dholbach> the use of dpatch or cdbs-edit-patch is highly recommended
<\sh> comadreja: easy one :)
* \sh is doing everything by hand *eg*
<comadreja> thanks, is there any howto about that ?
<\sh> dpatch don't use it...simple-patch-kit from cdbs is ok
<dholbach> http://tseng.ath.cx/log/?p=7
<\sh> or if it's only a single patch
<dholbach> \sh: only if debian/rules is using cdbs already
<\sh> do it by hand...easier to read
<\sh> dholbach: sometimes they're using also cdbs simple patch even for debhelper stuff
<\sh> I don'tlike it
<\sh> for i in debian/patches/* is easier
<\sh> dholbach: actually....there is no rule who to patch upstream source the right way...we should declare it and define it the right way
<\sh> -who+how
<dholbach> you can't define it, that only causes flamewars
<comadreja> I get this:
<comadreja> make: *** No rule to make target `unpatch'.  Stop.
<dholbach> but patches directly in the source are crack
<dholbach> comadreja: changed debian/rules accordingly?
<comadreja> hmmm, nopes, followed the howto :)
<dholbach> it should talk about debian/rules :)
<pef> bye !
<comadreja> yep, but after the edit-patch :D
<comadreja> I did :)
<dholbach> bye pef
<comadreja> would it be ok if I get latest upstream ? seems to have most of them solved
<\sh> ogra: u rock
<\sh> comadreja: uvf
<ogra> ?
<\sh> comadreja: only with ack from kamion
<\sh> ogra: latest upload :)
<ogra> djvu ?
<\sh> and fixed fixed for bugz and malone
<ogra> ah, yes, it built
<\sh> I know :)
<\sh> I'm good ;-)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> youre the greatest :)
<\sh> liar
<\sh> u r my xscreensaver god...that was the first one.u showed me
<\sh> he played with utf8 in our cantine at these days..
<\sh> ,-)
<\sh> ogra: really...some people are missing u ... don't u wanna come back?
<ogra> hehe, never
<ogra> how isthe new boss btw ?
<\sh> ogra: oh he has a good "leumund"
<ogra> fine
<\sh> looks like he kicks old f*ckers out
<ogra> great :)
<\sh> he's indian uk ,)
<\sh> or uk indian..whatever
<\sh> and he is engineer :)
<ogra> heh, guenther too
<\sh> guenther liks only his blackberry
<\sh> blueberry?
<ogra> black i think
<\sh> this nifts toy
<\sh> -s+
<\sh> y
<comadreja> once I used dpatch, it seems that debuild doesn't patch the sources for building, is that right ?
<dholbach> it should
<dholbach> you can additionally have a look at /usr/share/doc/dpatch/examples
<comadreja> ok
<\sh> DANIELN?
<\sh> ok..not there..
<ajmitch> uh oh, dholbach has started on the unmet deps page :)
<\sh> ajmitch: we 're in
<ajmitch> yeah, I noticed a lot of wiki activity there
<ajmitch> I'm getting behind
<siretart> re
<\sh> ajmitch: again? ,-)
<ajmitch> \sh: :-P
<\sh> ajmitch: but this time..u take your stuff, and I won't do anything ,-)
<ajmitch> why are gcc-3.3, 3.4, 4.0 on that list of unmet deps?
<ajmitch> heh
<dholbach> some of their binary packages can't be installed due to unmet dependencies (at least on amd64)
<comadreja> could you tell me about a package that uses dpatch ? I'm unable to make this apply the patch and I'd like to see some working code
<ajmitch> dholbach: and they're in universe?
<dholbach> no
<dholbach> some of them are in main
<dholbach> but that's all on the top of the page :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: that's like expecting me to read the fine print :)
<dholbach> yeah :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-07-10
<bddebian> Damn cernlib is a pig
<linuxmonkey> hey do u guys know if the commercial repo is x86 only at the moment?
<bddebian> Bah, fsck ipac-nc
<bddebian> Err ipac-ng even
<Hobbsee> hi all
<zul> hey
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Do the ipac-ng merge for me will ya? :-)
<Hobbsee> bddebian: hah.  i take it it's a beast?
* Hobbsee was trying to package a NEW program last night.
<bddebian> No, just seems to be poorly maintained
<Hobbsee> bddebian: ah great.
<Hobbsee> if there's a new package in debian unstable, how long do we have to wait for it to hit ubuntu edgy?  (libsynaptics-dev) - is there any way we can speed that up?
<Hobbsee> sync request?
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: does it need a merge?
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: i'm assuming just a sync
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: that's automagic
<Amaranth> if the ubuntu package had changes they have to be merged manually
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: yeah, but how long does it take for this automagicness to occur, is my question
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: it's new in debian, never in ubuntu
<Amaranth> it'd better happen soon, UVF is soon
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: exactly.  and it's a new b-d of a package that's assigned to me to update
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: request it
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: will do.  will test that it builds, etc, first.
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: two syncs have to be in two separate bug reports?
<Hobbsee> seeing as one depends on the other?
<Amaranth> yeah
<Hobbsee> right
<Amaranth> they change the bug title and subscribe some special thing that does the sync
<Amaranth> so you want separate bugs
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: yeah, okay.  you a MOTU by any chance?
<Amaranth> nope
<Hobbsee> didnt think so
<bddebian> Well why the heck not?  You two need to get in gear ;-P
<Hobbsee> bddebian: hehe
<Hobbsee> bddebian: can you ack a couple of syncs for me please?
<Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/52481 and https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/52482
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52481 in Ubuntu "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync libsynaptics 0.14.4d-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<Hobbsee> or any other motu around
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Ack them?
<Hobbsee> bddebian: approve them
<Hobbsee> bddebian: i'm not a MOTU yet, remember?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: You shouldn't need approval, just subscribe ubuntu-archive
<Hobbsee> then subscribe the archive, if you're feeling kind
<Hobbsee> bddebian: they made us have approval before
<bddebian> Oh, hmm
<Hobbsee> bddebian: thanks.
<bddebian> NP
<bddebian> Laser_away or crimsun: I'm heading to bed shortly but I think I figured out maxima's problem.  gcl needs a rebuild against newer libraries, then maxima builds fine.
<bddebian> This old man has to go to bed.  Gnight folks
<Hobbsee> bye old man :P
<sivang> morning
<Hobbsee> evening sivang
<Hobbsee> must be time for lunch.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey sivang :)
<sivang> hey Kamping_Kaiser , how's it going?
<Kamping_Kaiser> not bad mate, self?
<Kamping_Kaiser> getting stuff done? :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi dholbach
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach!
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> hey Kamping_Kaiser, Hobbsee!
<sivang> morning dholbach !
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<dholbach> hi sivang
<sivang> Kamping_Kaiser: Yeah, will start with home-user-backup soon and you'll be able to do some more testing. If you check the new UI you can see there's already a workaround to the device detection issues as there's going to be somewhat changed workflow.
<Kamping_Kaiser> sivang, ah, if you have started doing changes i'll add a bzr up/pull (whatever it uses) to my otehr cronjobs :)
<sivang> Kamping_Kaiser: not yet :) but intend to start today at least
<Kamping_Kaiser> sivang, ok :) ping me when theres a change and i'll whack in a new cronjob.
<Kamping_Kaiser> <3 cron
<AnAnt> when does Ubuntu sync with Debian ?
<slomo_> AnAnt: now ;)
<dholbach> AnAnt: in times, when we're not in upstream version freeze
<dholbach> ie now
<AnAnt> slomo_: well, in Debian there is tor 0.1.0.22, yet I see that Edgy is still using 0.1.0.16
<dholbach> AnAnt: you want to do the merge?
<slomo_> because nobody merged it yet... as it has ubuntu changes it has to be done manually
<AnAnt> do it how ?
<AnAnt> oh
<dholbach> take the current debian source and the ubuntu source, merge the changes
<AnAnt> and put them in REVU ?
<dholbach> for example
<AnAnt> dholbach: there isn't another way, is it ?
<dholbach> another way like what?
<AnAnt> dholbach: you said for example, so I thought that there may be other ways
<dholbach> sure, if you upload it to some other random host and get your merge reviewed and uploaded, that's fine too
<AnAnt> ic
<Gloubiboulga> morning MOTU{s, hopefuls}
<AnAnt> btw, when do uploads get reviewed ?
<imbrandon> AnAnt, mostly as motus get time or someone is "poked" about one in particular
<AnAnt> what is that .cvsignore file that I see in debian/ directories for ?
<dholbach> hey Gloubiboulga
<Gloubiboulga> hi dholbach, gnumeric is ready for a review
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: rock and roll
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: it works ok?
<Gloubiboulga> yes, both gnome and gtk variants
<Gloubiboulga> but libgoffice is not on the repos yet
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: i promised to do two other merges now, can you send me a mail with the location?
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> same place as last time?
<Gloubiboulga> exact same place
<dholbach> super
<Gloubiboulga> who should I poke about goffice?
<dholbach> i'm happy to look at it
<Gloubiboulga> it's built on malone (for i386 only)
<Gloubiboulga> on launchpad*
<imbrandon_> dholbach, ping
<dholbach> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon_> hey i got a quick question, i'm doing a merge ( kdissert ) and the only change from debian was dh_iconcache so i just unpacked the debian version from MoM and made the changes and versioned it correct  but ...
<imbrandon_> it build fine and works, but when i goto debuild -S -sa it compains about not finding the _source.changes
<imbrandon_> to i need to use like dpkg-genchanges ot soemthing ?
<imbrandon_> s/ot/or
<dholbach> what is the error message?
<imbrandon_> s/build fine/build fine with just debuild/
<imbrandon_> umm one sec
<imbrandon_> http://pastebin.ca/83923
<dholbach> you shouldn't have to use sudo
<imbrandon_> hrm ok one sec
<dholbach> debuild uses fakeroot
<imbrandon_> w00t thats all it was thanks dholbach
<imbrandon_> heh /me is dumb sometimes
<dholbach> no, you're not
<dholbach> happy to have helped out :)
<ajmitch> hi
<imbrandon_> heya ajmitch
<imbrandon_> ajmitch, got time to upload a merge ?
<ajmitch> still in .au using someone else's system
<ajmitch> so probably not right now :)
<imbrandon_> ahh ok , /me pokes dholbach ;)
<imbrandon_> no biggie thanks ajmitch
<imbrandon_> ;)
<dholbach> i'm quite busy myself
<dholbach> but which one is it?
<imbrandon_> that kdessert
<imbrandon_> dissert
<dholbach> hmmm, dessert :-p
<dholbach> url?
<imbrandon_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2659
<dholbach> i'll do it in a bit
<imbrandon_> okie ;) thanks
<dholbach> i'm busy with the metacity merge
<imbrandon_> np , i'll start on the next one ;)
<dholbach> rock on
<imbrandon_> will that MoM page update when its uploaded ?
<dholbach> yeah, but not instantly
<dholbach> it will take a while
<dholbach> package uploaded
<imbrandon_> no problem i just wanted to make sure there wasent something _I_ needed to do manualy
<imbrandon_> thanks dholbach
<crimsun> good lord that's a nasty version for kdissert.
<imbrandon_> lol yea i was thinking the same thing crimsun
<imbrandon_> when i saw it
<imbrandon_> hrm bbiab , changing over to the lappy
<Gloubiboulga> call for MOTU helpers: I'll have some time this afternoon to review NEW packages and merges :)
<crimsun> I'll try to join
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<crimsun> I have a presentation in three hours, and I've not slept yet, so it's going to be a /long/ day
* dholbach hugs Gloubiboulga and crimsun
<dholbach> crimsun: Go! To! Bed!
<crimsun> dholbach: knowing my track record, that would be a Very Bad Thing
<crimsun> (the last time I tried that, I mistakenly turned off my UPS instead of the alarm clock, then turned off the alarm clock, and woke up late)
<ajmitch> ouch
<dholbach> arg
<Gloubiboulga> I don't know how you guys do to not sleep...
<ajmitch> not a good thing
<Mithrandir> sleep is for the weak.
<ajmitch> Gloubiboulga: simple, dholbach & crimsun aren't human
<Gloubiboulga> hh
<dholbach> i sleep :)
<siretart> hi
<siretart> dholbach: UVF for universe is later in edgy, right?
<dholbach> siretart: yes, UniverseFreeze is with BetaFreeze
<dholbach> cf EdgyReleaseSchedule
<crimsun> Sept 28th iirc
<siretart> dholbach: mdz asked me to ask you to add this to EdgyReleaseSchedule
<crimsun> hmm, BetaFreeze or BetaRelease?
<dholbach> siretart: i added it two times already
<dholbach> it's on there
<siretart> err, you mean here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule?
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> siretart: yes
<siretart> hi \sh
<dholbach> siretart: search for UniverseFreeze
<siretart> argl.
<siretart> I keep on searching the notes..
<siretart> I'll add a note to the wiki, okay?
<\sh> well, I won't be able to do any merges until next weekend...4 days before product launch...to stressfull
<dholbach> siretart: which note?
<crimsun> LOCK ecasound2.2
<siretart> dholbach: in the 'notes' coloumn
<crimsun> \sh: np, you've been kicking butt anyhow
<dholbach> siretart: ok
<dholbach> siretart: hope I didn't forget anything on the UniverseFreeze page itself
<siretart> dholbach: I think it is okay like that
<dholbach> ok super
<crimsun> ecasound2.2 uploaded
* dholbach cheers for crimsun
<crimsun> sorry, I'll be using this notation for merges that aren't listed for me
<zakame> hi all
<imbrandon> heya zakame
<imbrandon> hrm, whats the diffrent colors for the rows in MoM mean ?
<zakame> heya imbrandon
<zakame> hmm, manual merge, I gather, say between native and non-native packaging
<zakame> see the entries for apt-proxy and usbmount
<imbrandon> ahh yea
<zakame> hmm digikamimageplugins just needing a debsign for upload :)
<kelmo> moin, moin siretart
<zakame> and so is gr-wxgui
<imbrandon> crimsun, ping
<siretart> hey kelmo
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<Gloubiboulga> hi again Toadstool ;)
<Toadstool> ;
<Toadstool> :)
<kelmo> siretart: http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/articles/2006/07/06/its-not-like-i-think-other-distribution-sucks-but
<zul> hey
<Gloubiboulga_> hi zul
<Gloubiboulga_> I think I'll archive old packages on REVU (< june) with a comment asking to update for edgy
<Gloubiboulga_> sound good to you MOTUs?
<Gloubiboulga_> sounds*
<siretart> kelmo: I have worked with Diego (aka fameeyes) the last days on the debian xine package
<siretart> kelmo: he recently become member of xine developers, so he is also xine-upstream, and commits stuff, mainly related to ffmpeg, I think
<siretart> kelmo: it is correct, that xine was rather neglected in debian, for a number of reasons. I'm working on it
<kelmo> siretart: yep, i sort of gathered that from his recent blog's
<kelmo> siretart: yes, it was for a long time in limbo, i am glad you have help revive it
<kelmo> very very glad
<kelmo> siretart: i was just curious to know who he was actually referring to ;-)
<siretart> I'm not finished, but 1.1.2 is to be released 'soon', and I should have a working package for it in my development branch
<siretart> kelmo: I'm not sure that he refers to explicitly to me here, but of course he refers to the poor maintenance of xine in the past
<kelmo> siretart: yep, and he is/was not the only one ;-)
<siretart> kelmo: more rants about xine in debian?
<kelmo> siretart: nah, not in recent times
<kelmo> siretart: thats a tribute to the current work to keep it in good shape by the maintainers
<kelmo> siretart: so in short => keep up the good work ;-) i appreciate it
<siretart> oh. you're welcome :)
<kelmo> siretart: re: hostapd, i was absolutely stoked with faidon's response in regard to joining the maintenance team
<kelmo> siretart: was not expecting that, somehow
<siretart> kelmo: stoked? why that?
<kelmo> siretart: (sorry for slang) stoked => extremely happy
<ajmitch> kelmo: your australianness is showing :)
<kelmo> ajmitch, proud of it ;-)
<ajmitch> kelmo: where in .au, btw?
<kelmo> brisbane
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> too warm for me
<kelmo> soon to fly to melbourne ;-)
<kelmo> that is gonna hurt
<ajmitch> hehe
<kelmo> i've not work sleeves all week, then enter the cold . . .
* ajmitch is currently in melbourne
<kelmo> s/work/worn/
<ajmitch> flying back to dunedin tomorrow
<ajmitch> you'll need warm clothes, melbourne has been unusually cold lately, I hear
<kelmo> yeah, coldest in 50 years or so
<zul> heh..."alot of people in this country poo poo australian table wines"
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> good old 'chateau chunder'
<siretart> kelmo: oh. right. I'm happy for the extra coordination as well
* ajmitch had better go & sleep now, night all
<siretart> kelmo: I don't see why hostap and wpasupplicant shouldn't be maintained by the same ppl, or why they should be out of sync in debian (like, wpasupplicant compiling against old madwifi headers and hostap against newer ones et. al.)
<kelmo> siretart: exactly, it make sense
<kelmo> siretart: but i've not had all good experiences co-ordinating packages in debian, pkg-wpa has been excellent in this regard
<Hobbsee> hi all
<Mithrandir> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir!
<siretart> to native speakers: there is the word 'advice'. does it have a plural? like, 'advices'?
* Hobbsee thinks.
<Hobbsee> siretart: well, you can advise someone of something
<Mithrandir> I think advice is uncountable.
<kelmo> there's no plural, thats for sure
<siretart> Hobbsee: right. in AOP, there is a language feature called 'advice'. Think of it like a method. My question is if there is a plural, if I have several Code Advice in one aspect..
<siretart> so 'advices' doesn't exist, right?
<Hobbsee> siretart: that's correct
<Mithrandir> It'd be something like "several Code Advice statements".
<kelmo> yep
<siretart> ok. thank you
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: is correct
<Gloubiboulga_> Hobbsee, have you ever seen KDE apps installing documentation in /usr/share/doc/HTML (I guess not but I want to be sure)?
<Gloubiboulga_> Hobbsee and KDE lovers :)
* Hobbsee thinks.
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga_: [23:10]  <Riddell> Hobbsee: by default KDE will do that but in Debian/Ubuntu it should be /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/
<Gloubiboulga_> ok, thanks
<seaLne> does anyone have the time to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2637 please? it is a newly packaged app now used by sleuthkit and autopsy
<Gloubiboulga_> /me looks
<seaLne> ta
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hey zakame
<zul> hi zakame
<zakame> hey Hobbsee thanks for doing some of my old pkgs :)
<crimsun> imbrandon__: pong, but I'm in a sponsor meeting atm, what's up?
<Hobbsee> zakame: so you didnt mind me stealing them?  i got e-verybigupload uploaded :)
<imbrandon__> crimsun, its about some makefile voo-doo and i dont have it infront of me atm, it can wait till later if thats ok
<crimsun> imbrandon__: please. I won't be available for another 5-6 hours.
<zakame> Hobbsee: well I just have digikamimageplugins and gr-wxgui pending debsign, I haven't sen the rest yet
<imbrandon__> ok
<Hobbsee> zakame: so i can happily steal the rest?
<zakame> Hobbsee: just ping me which so I don't inadvertently duplicate work :)
<Hobbsee> zakame: usually i do stuff while you're asleep, so that's fairly safe :P
<Hobbsee> but of course :)
<zakame> hehe that's good anyhow, I'm fairly loaded atm
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, commented on REVU
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: thanks
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, np
<seaLne> grr new versions always come out just after :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga_> hehe
<Gloubiboulga_> hello bddebian
<seaLne> happened to me with dcfldd
<bddebian> Hi Gloubiboulga_
<zakame> wb bddebian
<bddebian> Heya zakame
<sivang> okay dudes and dudettes , do we have a todo list or just use http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html ?
<sivang> or more importantly, how do we co-ordinate merge work ?
<sivang> zakame: hey there, are you now working on X stuff ?
<zakame> well we don't have new bug reporting, except for syncs
<sivang> so how do we coordinate ?:)
<Hobbsee> sivang: stuff that's got our names on it, just do it, if it's got someone elses, ask them first
* Hobbsee is stealing people's merges all over the place, pretty much
<sivang> Hobbsee: already knew that :)
<Hobbsee> sivang: if you want to attack some, go for zakame's - i'm not doing them at the moment
<zakame> sivang: I'm not working on X :( been busy with SoC and IRL
<zakame> I'm still doing the deptree though
<sivang> Hobbsee: Well, I've basically done all that I could main, and managed to annoy core-dev people including the almighty seb128 ... so I figured put some more work to universe :)
<Hobbsee> sivang: hehe, i annoy many people in universe, so i'm finally going for MOTU.
<Hobbsee> sivang: annoying main people is good though :P
<sivang> so, I don't need to bug people before I steal their merge then?
<Hobbsee> sivang: depends if htey're asleep or not :P
<Hobbsee> sivang: feel free to go thru zakame's - i'm not doing them for the next while - but if you're going to keep doing them, we need to keep in contact over who's doing what
* Hobbsee stole about 5 of his :P
<sivang> Hobbsee: I see, let's what he had under his belt for universe
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> some majorly big files!
<sivang> althogh asterisk looks yummy
<Hobbsee> (oh no, more sirens)
<Hobbsee> sivang: go for it
<sivang> zul: do you mind if tried asterisk ? any insiders tips ? :)
<Hobbsee> zul: idle for 42 mins?  probably just take it :P
<sivang> Hobbsee: hmm, it seems the zakame's stuff are mostly KDE no?
<zakame> lol
<Hobbsee> sivang: could be, i took a few that werent
* sivang explores asterisk
* Hobbsee cheers sivang on
* Hobbsee repairs her pbuilder
<sivang> Hobbsee: thanks :)
<sivang> Hobbsee: what's the meaning if a package gets .dfsg-... in it?
<sivang> Hobbsee: in it's file name, that is.
<Hobbsee> sivang: ah, means it's non free, IIRC
<sivang> Hobbsee: hmm, meaning it breaks the debian free software guidelines ?
<Hobbsee> sivang: that's the one
<sivang> Hobbsee: so , that's like stuff that sits in the non-free debian repo? and the file name change is in ubuntu and debian, right?
<Hobbsee> sivang: i think so, yeah
<seaLne> does anyone know what is causing "I have no package to build" http://pastebin.ca/84083 starting line 455
<bddebian> That path looks questionable
<bddebian> /tmp/buildd/foo ?
<bddebian> Oh, wait nm
<zakame> Hobbsee: those with `dfsg' versions are pkgs with a modified source tarball to meet DFSG
<Hobbsee> zakame: ahh...that's right...
<sivang> zakame: ah, thanks
<bddebian> seaLne: The only thing I could guess with a cursory look is that it's not building in the right dirs
<sivang> zakame: what sort of modifications are usually done?
<crimsun> removal of non-free components
<crimsun> repackaging of orig.tar.gz to represent binary changes
<crimsun> etc.
<sivang> crimsun: you mean, repackagin it after the new binaries were produced from the dfsg compliant code?
<crimsun> sivang: no, things like shipping a different default skin for beep-media-player, etc.
<sivang> crimsun: ah, I see
<sivang> crimsun: btw, you are approved for main right?
<crimsun> yes
<Gloubiboulga_> congrats crimsun :)
* Yagisan waves to Hobbsee
* Hobbsee waves back to Yagisan 
<bddebian> Hi Yagisan
<Yagisan> G'day bddebian
* Yagisan is quietly lurking and waiting for his uni's website to comeback online so he can do some work
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> they're always down like that, it's most annoying
<Yagisan> yep, it's first day, and the damm thing dies at the login prompt
<bddebian> OK hamlib sucks
<zakame> heya Yagisan
<zakame> whoa C*s on kdevelop3
<Yagisan> what's up zakame ?
<bddebian> Hi zakame
<crimsun> bddebian: are you just pbuilding the debian source package?
<bddebian> crimsun: For which?
<crimsun> hamlib
<bddebian> No, the Edgy one
<crimsun> I don't see the merge
<bddebian> It's a sync but it failed to build for the reason I just pasted :-)
<bddebian> Man it's starting to feel like Debian
<crimsun> oh, in -devel
<bddebian> Jesus a 14Mb diff.gz
<crimsun> it builds fine with python2.4
<bddebian> Well that was my next path but it has a binary package python2.3-hamlib2
<bddebian> crimsun: Know of a POSIX compliant version of this? rm -f $${$@%.rm}
<crimsun> mith might
<bddebian> Mithrandir: ?
<cypher1> got dapper cd's today :D
<Hobbsee> zakame: that kdevelop looks fun.  did you fix it yet?
<zakame> Hobbsee: I'll be doing that :P
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, what are those afflib-doc.{doc,install} files?
<Hobbsee> zakame: right
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_:
<zakame> and libnet-ph-perl too
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: where?
<zakame> gn8 all :D
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: ah see them
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: deleted
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, 2 other comments
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: did you see my previous question of what is causing "I have no package to buil" http://pastebin.ca/84083
<Gloubiboulga_> there's no man pages, and you don't need to install LICENSE.txt (in the docs)
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: ok
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, yep I saw it, but I can't answer :/
<jrib> Hi, for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2623, I'm working on the latest review.  Should I really remove every commented line in the rules file or just the unused dh_* stuff?  Here is a link to the rules file: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gaim-latex-0607061720/gaim-latex-0.4/debian/rules
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, look at the buildlog on REVU, the same issue is present
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: riddell just pointed out to me it looks like it is running dh_* twice
<crimsun> jrib: dh_
<jrib> crimsun: thanks
<Gloubiboulga_> jrib, yes, the dh_ as wrote crimsun, I should have been more precise
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, yes, you have an install-arch: and an install-indep: but you don't need this
<seaLne> which should i have?
<seaLne> arch?
<Gloubiboulga_> binary-indep: build install
<Gloubiboulga_> # We have nothing to do by default.
<Gloubiboulga_> and remove the binary-{arch,indep} rules at the end of debian/rules
<apachelogger> raphink: ping
<raphink> pong apachelogger
<apachelogger> raphink: I can't upload to revu :S
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: what should binary: do then?
<apachelogger> raphink: http://pastebin.ca/84122
<seaLne> or is it not needed either?
<bddebian> crimsun: Any suggestions with hamlib?  Make the binary package python2.4-hamlib2?
<raphink> apachelogger: add yourself to the ubuntu-universe-contributors group on LP
<apachelogger> raphink: already in there
<apachelogger> for quite some time actually
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, actually you shouldn't have a binary-common: rule, this is this one which is called twice
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, see http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/vbaexpress-0602040735/vbaexpress-1.2/debian/rules
<apachelogger> raphink: the upload just showed up :)
<raphink> good :)
<Laser_away> bddebian: ping?
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yo
<LaserJock> bddebian: good news about maxima
<LaserJock> bddebian: what needs to be done, or did you already take care of it
<bddebian> LaserJock: I'm working on gcl now
<LaserJock> bddebian: great, thanks
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: can i get rid of build-*?
<LaserJock> bddebian: I seriously doubt you piss -devels off... much :-)
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, I think so
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, did you use dh_make?
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: the make is done in install:
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, dh_make is used to generate the debian/* templates :)
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: err yeah i knew that errm :) yes
<Gloubiboulga_> the debian/rules you have looks like you've selected a multiple package when you ran dh_make
<seaLne> ah
<Mez> grr ... anyne have any idea the easiest way to find out which device is an ntfs formatted disk
<Mez> cause someone wants some help mounting it and he doesnt know how to identify it
<Erlang> fdisk /dev/blarg
<Mez> aha fdisk -l - knew I'd forgotten something
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: any idea what makes lintian complain about missing -arch and -indep now? is it the header of the rules file?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I seem to annoy the hell out of them
<Mez> seaLne - do you actually have those rules?
<seaLne> Mez: no
<seaLne> just removed them
<seaLne> E: afflib source: debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-arch
<seaLne> E: afflib source: debian-rules-missing-required-target binary-indep
<Mez> seaLne - those are required rules thats why
<Mez> even if they do nothing
<seaLne> ok, thanks
<Gloubiboulga_> yes, you need this
<Gloubiboulga_> but not install-{indep,arch} iirc
<seaLne> got a bit carried away :)
<Gloubiboulga_> sorry, I didn't check what I wrote before
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, you should use cdbs :p
<seaLne> :wq
<Gloubiboulga_> and emacs :D
<seaLne> bah :P
<jrib> I think I fixed what I need to in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2623 but when I check debian/copyright it doesn't have the file I have on my system.  This is my first package, so I don't know much about revu.  Is this normal?
<seaLne> jrib: are you looking at the latest version on revu? the url changes for each upload
<seaLne> jrib: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2669
<jrib> seaLne: ah no I wasn't, I was just hitting refresh.  Thanks :)
<fowlduck> is there a way to set gconf values so that all users inherit them and it overrides whatever is set?
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: i think i have fixed things now, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2670
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, renaminf 'ident' in 'afident' and not 'affident' is not a typo, right?
<Gloubiboulga_> renaming*
<seaLne> i removed an f as some of the other comands have a prefix of af, did i miss a mention of that?
<Gloubiboulga_> no, no, I just wanted to be sure
<seaLne> ah, thanks
<seaLne> Gloubiboulga_: anything apart from manpages?
<seaLne> which i suppose i need
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, apart from the manpages (needed) it's a nice package :)
<[GuS] > hi!
<[GuS] > someone here?
<Gloubiboulga_> depends :)
<[GuS] > jeje
<[GuS] > ok
<[GuS] > i have one problem packaging tcl8.5
<[GuS] > the deb package builds without any problems
<[GuS] > but
<[GuS] > some libraries modules are not  being package inside the deb
<[GuS] > like for example msgcat
<[GuS] > indeed... in the build process says "Installing msgcat as module... etc etc"
<[GuS] > and no errors... but the lib isn't inside the deb package...
<[GuS] > the onlye file that builds is /usr/lib/tcl8/8.5/msgcat-1.4.1.tm when has to be /usr/lib/tcl8.5/msgcat/
<Gloubiboulga_> I guess it's not listed in your .install file
<[GuS] > mm
<[GuS] > i use the examples of tcl8.4 src
<[GuS] > and with tcl8.4 works
<[GuS] > in the other hand, if you do make install, that lib is copied inside correct dir...
<[GuS] > weird...
<Gloubiboulga_> not really
<Gloubiboulga_> it's a problem with the package, it sometimes happens :)
<[GuS] > what i supposed... maybe a makefile bug?
<[GuS] > i will check..
<seaLne> is /usr/lib the standard place to stick a library (.a file)?
<[GuS] > the rest works fine.. just have that problem
<[GuS] > yes
<Gloubiboulga_> seaLne, yes
<seaLne> thought so, thanks
<[GuS] > well... i  wil test... when i have news i will like to upload this package =)
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> howz it going
<LaserJock> fine
<cbx33> if I send you over the debian folder so far for gisomount can you advise me on it, when you get spare sec?
<LaserJock> yeah
<cbx33> thanks
<cbx33> LaserJock, can I ask your advise
<cbx33> on another matter
<cbx33> I'm developing gisomount at the mo, now when I install it, the python script will go into /usr/bin
<cbx33> everything else will go into /usr/share/gisomount
<cbx33> including a python module
<cbx33> does it make sense to symlink the locatiosn to my source directory ?
<cbx33> so I can hardcode the paths into the min python code?
<cbx33> or how should I handle it?
<LaserJock> cbx33: I don't think you're supposed to put python modules in /usr/share/
<cbx33> it's a python include - where should it go?
<LaserJock> cbx33: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gisomount/ perhaps, you'll need to look at the new Python Policy
<LaserJock> cbx33: but hard coding paths is a headache farther on, from what I've seen
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure how other python apps handle that, I'll have to look
<cbx33> hmm
<zul> c is for cookie which is good enough for me
<LaserJock> man I love awk
* mukund loves to gawk
<zul> LaserJock: use perl ;)
* LaserJock runs
<LaserJock> noooooooo
<LaserJock> :-)
<zul> its not that bad
<LaserJock> I know, it's just the fact that I don't know Perl at all
<LaserJock> I often find myself trying to pick a column out of a long list and awk is really easy to use for that
<zul> oh...well that might explains the screamnig
<LaserJock> heh
<zul> meh...like me and groupwise
<LaserJock> I watched my advisor once whip up a Perl script to parse some data files
<LaserJock> it was rather interesting
<zul> its useful for a couple of hundred megs of data
<LaserJock> yeah
<zul> we used it for patient records at a previous job...but anyways
<LaserJock> in our lab we had some calculations that produces ~ 1GB data files
<LaserJock> not something you want to parse by hand ;-)
<zul> hell no
<LaserJock> although I'm sure my advisor would try to figure out how to do it from within emacs :-)
<zul> i so much hate emacs
<LaserJock> heh, my advisor only know 3 tools, emacs, acroread, and firefox
<zul> still emacs is evil
<Gloubiboulga_> emacs does anything you need :)
<LaserJock> and more than you need ;-)
<Gloubiboulga_> true :)
<LaserJock> I use all kinds of editors
<LaserJock> emacs, vim, gedit, jedit
<zul> vim and gedit mostly
<LaserJock> I tend to use vim mostly
<fowlduck-> LaserJock, what's the official way to change gconf values globally?  Is there one?
<LaserJock> I haven't a clue to be honest
<fowlduck-> ok, danke
<cypher1> hi all
<fowlduck-> howdy
<jbailey> Is Universe going to stick to UVF this week?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> we have Universe Freeze
<LaserJock> in Sept.
<jbailey> Ah, nice!
<dholbach> jbailey: UniverseFreeze is with BetaFreeze
<jbailey> Oh, nice.  I see it in the schedule now too.
<jbailey> Perfect.
<seaLne> is UniverseFreeze affected at all by feature freeze?
<seaLne> "NEW packages brought in" on the wikipage would imply not?
<dholbach> universefreeze is when we can only do bug fixes
<dholbach> clean up :)
<LaserJock> bddebian: ok, so what exactly is seb saying? we shouldn't have done the .desktops to start with, or now that we've done them we should send them upstream upstream
<tseng> you should have done them upstream
<tseng> to start with
<LaserJock> I guess
<bddebian> LaserJock: Hey, it's less work for me
<tseng> you dont guess
<tseng> his point is, upstream collects translations
<tseng> you don't
<bddebian> I highly doubt that most of these packages have a "translation team"
<tseng> most of these projects are so silly
<tseng> that it doesnt matter
<tseng> time to go
<bddebian> Later tseng
<LaserJock> bddebian: that's my point, seb is used to working with Gnome
<LaserJock> a fair amount of these projects are basically dead as far as this sort of thing
<bddebian> Well I'm getting mighty freakin' tired of getting beat over the head
<LaserJock> bddebian: just blame me
<bddebian> I'm not blaming you for anything.  Hell there was a wiki page when I started with Ubuntu about getting .desktop files in
<andi5> slomo_: are you around?
<LaserJock> bddebian: better?
<LaserJock> I'm still struggling with sending things upstream
<LaserJock> bddebian: you're just lucky you've got a hole to crawl back into ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> bddebian: honestly though, don't hesitate to blame me for the science .desktops
<LaserJock> I'm feeling like I kinda screwed that one up
<bddebian> Nah
<LaserJock> although, tbh, the reason I made the .desktop push in MOTU Science was because of seb :-)
<bddebian> No one ever told me that stuff before
<LaserJock> me neither
<LaserJock> I'm just a moron, apparently
<bddebian> Well you and me both baby :-)
<tseng> hi bddebian
<tseng> i am home
<tseng> bddebian: we should plan on dinner this weekend
<bddebian> tseng: why so you can convince me to quit? ;-P
<tseng> bddebian: er, no
<tseng> unless you have a CCNP and want to work 11-8
<tseng> 11-7u
<bddebian> I'd work 11-7 but I'm no CCNP
<sivang> bddebian, tseng : are you working in the same place? :)
<tseng> sivang: er, no
<bddebian> tseng: And I meant quit MOTUship anyway :-)
<tseng> oh
* fowlduck doesn't want a CCNP
<tseng> hah
<tseng> fowlduck: why not?
<tseng> good money
<sivang> what's a CCNP ?
<tseng> cisco certified network professional
<tseng> level 2 cisco cert, pretty tough
<fowlduck> tseng, i did some networking, I have a networking degree, discovered I hate it
<tseng> sorry to hear that
<tseng> i think high-end cisco is more stable than programming
<fowlduck> yeah, 2 years of school to discover that
<tseng> luckily i do both
<tseng> and sysadmin
<fowlduck> me too
<tseng> i am diverse
<fowlduck> going to school for web programming
<fowlduck> did the networking bit
<tseng> school is for suckers
<fowlduck> and do sysadmin junk for hobby
<sivang> tseng: wow , cool
<fowlduck> heh
* sivang did QA & Integration in 3 places already. Got hired and favored over degree
<fowlduck> it's hard to get hired without education
<LaserJock> I'm a condensed phase laser spectroscopist working in nanosensors, I guess I didn't get the diversification memo ;-)
<fowlduck> and education has rounded me out
<sivang> degreed people, that is
<fowlduck> LaserJock, LOL
<sivang> LaserJock: hehe
<sivang> LaserJock: are you ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<sivang> LaserJock: nano sensors, I take it you're into nano technology ?
<sivang> LaserJock: have you dealt with agents already?
* sivang is interested in the application and design of nano agents
<LaserJock> it's taken 8 years of university training, but I've managed to become specialized enough to become virtually unemployable
<sivang> hmm
* sivang EPARSE
<fowlduck> sivang, I don't know what background you have or where you live, but here it's very hard to get looked at without some sort of education
<sivang> fowlduck: where are you at?
<fowlduck> sivang, Madison, WI
<sivang> fowlduck: ah, US right ?
<fowlduck> sivang, ya
<LaserJock> sivang: I like nanotechnology, but from a physics/chemistry perspective
<LaserJock> most nanotechnology isn't really nano ;-)
<fowlduck> LaserJock, I like it from a "WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?!?" perspective
<sivang> LaserJock: ah, so you're into actually thinking up what material to use to build a nano agent per task
<LaserJock> sivang: I'm working on a molecular motor that is 1 nm in size
<sivang> LaserJock: although as the physical body implementor, you should hage some knowledge about the algorithm
<sivang> LaserJock: does newtonian mechanics apply to calculate force, throughput and utilization as they do in regular size world?
<LaserJock> I think roughly, things get a little weird (read: we don't really know a lot) at such a small scale
<sivang> ah, I see
<LaserJock> we try to think in terms of torque and efficency, but they are really hard to determine
<LaserJock> we are going to try to determine torque by attaching the motor to circular DNA strands and "winding" the DNA up like a rubber band
<sivang> wow, cool
<fowlduck> sounds easy
<bddebian> heh
* fowlduck does that in his sleep
<fowlduck> ;)
<LaserJock> but my research involves trying to determine wheither the motors actually rotate and if they do wheither they rotate unidirectionally
<LaserJock> fowlduck: of course ;-)
<LaserJock> but doing that on a 1 nm object that is rotating at potentially MHz-GHz frequencies isn't trivial :-)
<fowlduck> wouldn't it have to be attached to something stationary on the other side of the motor in order to twist the DNA from one end?
<LaserJock> fowlduck: we attache each end to an end of DNA
<LaserJock> attach
<fowlduck> ahh, i see
<LaserJock> so you take a piece of circular DNA
<LaserJock> cut it
<LaserJock> then attach each end of the motor to the ends
<LaserJock> reforming the circle
<LaserJock> but now with a rotating piece in the middle :-)
<sivang> god, this sounds like sci fi
<LaserJock> of course
<LaserJock> sci fi is just science waiting to happen :-)
<LaserJock> good sci fi anyway
<fowlduck> like scientology?!!?!? ;D
<sivang> LaserJock: btw, we have a good lab for nano tech in the uni where I attended pre-uni course, well known, check it out
<sivang> LaserJock: http://rbni.technion.ac.il/employment.html
<sivang> LaserJock: I think they've come up with some of the more moving changes in the discipline that last couple of yuears,
<sivang> LaserJock: I can't acutally recall what they've done, but there was some ceremony for that :)
<LaserJock> looks cool
<LaserJock> I haven't even told you guys about the "other" research that we do in my lab ;-)
<bddebian> tseng: Oh crap, I'm heading to Illinois on Thurs, so I can't buy you dinner :-(
<sivang> LaserJock: which is ? :)
<tseng> bddebian: ok.
<tseng> bddebian: ill buy if yo ustay
<LaserJock> sivang: we are taking cigar shaped molecules and trapping them in 3D space. Then turn them into gyroscopes that we can shoot at other molecules :-)
<sivang> LaserJock: wow! do you have any computer simulation or laser scope firms of that stuff when you do it ?
<sivang> films, even
<sivang> LaserJock: what's the 3D space made of btw?
<LaserJock> electromagnetic radiation, of course ;-)
<raphink> hey sivang :)
<LaserJock> basically, if you time a radio frequency field right in 3D you can create a "trap" that will catch ~ 1000 molecules for up to ~ 10 s at a time
<LaserJock> we are still at the "getting it to work" stage
<LaserJock> but we have a fair amount of compuational simulations
<LaserJock> basically we use a circularly polarized laser to put selective angular momentum into the molecules
<LaserJock> so the start spinning in one direction, and as we put more and as we hit them more and more with the laser, the begin to all line up in the same direction, spinning in the same sense
<LaserJock> wow, that sentance has a few holes in it
<sivang> whawo
* sivang not sure he understood all of it
<LaserJock> np
<sivang> raphink: hey Raphael! how are you?
<raphink> shalom sivang, ani shlom tov :)
<bddebian> tseng: :-)
<LaserJock> I have to practice these talks for my family, usually I get a whiteboard though
<bddebian> I have GOT to get home.  Later folks
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<raphink> laters bddebian
<raphink> v ma shlomkha sivang ?
<sivang> LaserJock: is there any or could there be any corolation or to use nanotechnology as a tool to discover stuff in string theory and sub atomic worlds?
<sivang> raphink: hakol beseder! I see Sahar taught you hebrew :)
<raphink> sivang: no he didn't ;) I knew that already ;)
<sivang> raphink: where form?
<raphink> I've been studying hebrew for years, bit by bit
<raphink> a bit of modern hebrew by myself
<raphink> and biblical hebrew, too
<raphink> in a group
<raphink> :)
<LaserJock> sivang: it's possible I suppose, my general feeling is that we don't have nearly as much understanding at that level as we (scientific community) would need
<LaserJock> raphink: I'll be lucky if I get German or French down
<raphink> hehe
<sivang> raphink: what motivated you to learn it?
<raphink> sivang: jabber
#ubuntu-motu 2006-07-11
<sivang> LaserJock: I hope this understanding will grow as the science advances
<LaserJock> well, I think it will to some degree. However, totally new computational methods (i.e. quantum computing) will need to come about
<fowlduck> figured it out, set it using 'gconftool-2 --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type <type> --set </path/to/whatever> <value>'
<crimsun> ugh, long day.
<crimsun> oh yay, merges.
<zul> crimsun, you love it
<crimsun> this 50-hr day keeps getting longer
<LaserJock> crimsun: lol
<LaserJock> dang it, now I've forgotten how to use cut
<sivang> LaserJock: interesting, so you say quantum computing for example need to mature in order to help advance nanotech ?
<sivang> it's almost ironic :)
<LaserJock> sivang: well, I think we can do a lot of nanotech without quantum computing, but nano molecules are *huge* computationally
<LaserJock> you can't do much computationally with them
<imbrandon_> moins LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi imbrandon_
<mukund> http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2006-3404
<mukund> gimp packagers should move to 2.2.12
<crimsun> mukund: gimp (2.2.11-1ubuntu3.1) dapper-security; urgency=low  * SECURITY UPDATE: Arbitrary code execution with crafted XCF files.  * app/xcf/xcf-load.c: - Check num_axes for sanity to avoid buffer overflow with invalid values. - CVE-2006-3404 -- Martin Pitt <martin.pitt@ubuntu.com>  Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:11:09 +0000
<LaserJock> weird
<LaserJock> so do you think if a package has the wrong overrides in the archive that ubuntu-archive should get the bug?
<mukund> crimsun: great
<zul> moral of the story always check the changelog
<mukund> zul: i'm not an ubuntu user (yet)
<LaserJock> interesting, I found 6 packages with wrong Section: and 2 packages in Multiverse that should be in Universe
<fowlduck> interesting is trying to find libgconf2-ruby in the repositories
<fowlduck> i'm dumbfounded
<Hobbsee> hi all
<fowlduck> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey fowlduck ;0
<ajmitch> hi Hobbsee, bye Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey ajmitch!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you survived melbourne then?
<ajmitch> I'm still alive, if that's what you mean?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: partly, yeah
* ajmitch is going to head for the airport soon anyway
<ajmitch> ah, and now bddebian appears
<bddebian> Hi ajmitch
<bddebian> What'd I do now?
<ajmitch> where do I start? :)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: thought you might
<ajmitch> must go, will be back in a day or so (I hope)
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: the plane will crash and you'll have to swim back.
<ajmitch> probably
<bddebian> later ajmitch
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: but you still wont be able to tickle my feet, if your'e at the airport!  yay!
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: did your home computer crash, btw?
<zul> or row
<Hobbsee> hmmm...true
<LaserJock> bddebian: you got cernlib merged?
<LaserJock> BTS and I are going to have a serious discussion
<bddebian> LaserJock: Yes, done before I quit
<Hobbsee> bddebian: why do you quit?
<bddebian> Hobbsee: Becuase I have a 50+ hour work week, a wife, and three kids and all I catch is grief for what I try to contribute
<Hobbsee> bddebian: :( ah
<LaserJock> bddebian: don't worry, I appreciate your work, and I can understand your situation
* Hobbsee certainly appreciates bddebian's work!
<bddebian> Thanks
<lukaswayne9> Can I poke at a MOTU for some spare time to look at my two packages in the revu?
<anibal> bddebian, "all I catch is grief for what I try to contribute" could be turned into a challenge to improve things next time around
* bddebian is debating whether or not to reply to that :-)
<bddebian> lukaswayne9: What packages?
<lukaswayne9> bddebian: fceu-server and gfceu
<lukaswayne9> bddebian: i wrote both of them
<LaserJock> bddebian: lol, I think I found a MOTU Science package that wasn't uploaded by you or me ;-)
<bddebian> LaserJock: Heh, which one?
<LaserJock> geomview
<bddebian> Yep, wasn't me :-)
<bddebian> Isn't debian/copyright supposed to have the full text of the GPL license?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> not for GPL
<lukaswayne9> bddebian: i used to have it, but i took it out
<lukaswayne9> bddebian: someone told me to just refer to /usr/doc/..$whatever
<bddebian> OK
<LaserJock> bddebian: if the full text is in /usr/share/common-licenses/ you don't have to do full text, just preamble and point to full text
<lukaswayne9> What's this bs when I build gfceu? dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${shlibs:Depends}   dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}
<bddebian> I didn't get that building it now?
<lukaswayne9> oh, that's good
<LaserJock> lol, "The bddebian is a moron release" ?
<bddebian> Heh, yeah, what package was that?
<lukaswayne9> bddebian: how's it look?
<lukaswayne9> gfceu
<bddebian> lukaswayne9: Looks good
<LaserJock> bddebian: lyx
<lukaswayne9> both of them?
<bddebian> lukaswayne9: Yep
<lukaswayne9> great!
<lukaswayne9> this is my first two real packages
<lukaswayne9> these are*
<lukaswayne9> bddebian: Hmm, net or games?
<bddebian> I think games but I won't swear by it :-)
<lukaswayne9> LaserJock: Got a minute?  Could you take a look at my two packages in the revu?
<lukaswayne9> bddebian: thanks a lot for your time!
<bddebian> NP
<LaserJock> lukaswayne9: unfortunately I don't think I have time tonight for a proper review
<lukaswayne9> LaserJock: Alright, that's fine.. If you could take a look at them when you have some free time it would be greatly appreciated!  I have been pushing to get these in universe for a week or two
<LaserJock> I'll try
<LaserJock> :-)
<LaserJock> I need to review the new Python Policy
<bddebian> Don't we all :-)
<lukaswayne9> Does anyone have a link for it?
<crimsun> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if the one on www.debian.org/devel/ is current or not
<LaserJock> I honestly don't know what the "offical" word is, I just came across some emails like "we'd like to change the Python Policy to ..."
<LaserJock> and I don't keep up with debian enough to know when it's really offical or not
<crimsun> I'm surprised the copyright address is outdated
<crimsun> usually people are quick to point out and correct that
<LaserJock> lol, that's funny
<lukaswayne9> Woohoo! My package complies with the python policy
<lukaswayne9> but don't take my word for it
<crimsun> if it doesn't, I'd be very worried, as the new policy makes things much easier
<lukaswayne9> is the new policy ubuntu specific?
<crimsun> not at all. It synced into Ubuntu from Debian.
<lukaswayne9> Oh, that's good
<lukaswayne9> I was looking at the python spec, and I was worried about that
<crimsun> hah, awesome, more bugs than I can shake a stick at
<bddebian> Yeah, there are a shitload
<lukaswayne9> in what?
<LaserJock> everything
<bddebian> lukaswayne9: crimsun is probably talking alsa stuff.  I am talking about Ubuntu in general :-(
<lukaswayne9> oh
<lukaswayne9> edgy is really buggy right now, and has REALLY poor performance, but that was kinda expected
<LaserJock> do we need to keep dh_iconcache changes?
<bddebian> LaserJock: I haven't heard otherwise, but we won't go there ;-)
<bddebian> Ah well, gnight folks
<lukaswayne9> thanks again bro!
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<bddebian> You bet
<bddebian> gnight LaserJock
<bddebian> gnight crimsun :-)
<lukaswayne9> One last shameless plug:  If anyone has a minute to check out my two revu packages, it would be greatly appreciated!
<LaserJock> lukaswayne9: you should include the link to the revu pages when plugging ;-)
<lukaswayne9> My two packages:   http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2606   http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2674
<freeflying|away> any core-dev here, need sponsor upload. thx
<Lathiat> freeflying|away: of?
<freeflying|away> Lathiat: you can upload to main?
<Lathiat> not to main
<Lathiat> #ubuntu-devel is probably the better place to ask for themn
<Lathiat> that
<Lathiat> :)
<freeflying|away> Lathiat: thx :)
<Hobbsee> BOO!
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, HOO!
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: oh dear
<Hobbsee> hi ogra
<theBishop> can someone help me with NetworkManager?
<Kagou> hi
<Kagou> hi hub
<Kagou> hub: ufraw work like a charm on edgy :) . i'v also added 3 propositions on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams/Photo
<Lathiat> has anyone else noticed...
<Lathiat> that in gnome in dapper lately
<Lathiat> if you copy and paste out of gnome terminal
<Lathiat> or gaim or some such
<Lathiat> the newlines disappear?
<Lathiat> for me at least when pasting to irssi
<phanatic> morning motus
<Toadstool> 'morning everybody
<phanatic> hey Toadstool
<zakame> heya phanatic Toadstool
<phanatic> new packages can get into universe until universe freeze, right?
<phanatic> hey zakame
<dholbach> good morning everybody
<Toadstool> hi dholbach, phanatic & zakame
<dholbach> hey Toadstool
<\sh> moins
<Toadstool> hey \sh
<phanatic> another try :)
<phanatic> <phanatic> new packages can get into universe until universe freeze, right?
<Toadstool> yep
<phanatic> thanks :)
<Toadstool> np ;)
<cbx33> hi all
<jsgotangco> hi
<cbx33> should a lintian report saying source: native-package-with-dash-version be worrying?
<cbx33> It's a package I have written for ubuntu
<cbx33> i have called the source folder
<cbx33> gisomount-1.0.1
<cbx33> is that wrong?
<netgrabber> cbx33: calling it gisomount_1.0.1 is better
<netgrabber> the archive...
<jsgotangco> _
<cbx33> so switch the - for a _
<netgrabber> hmm no
<cbx33> oh i see
<cbx33> actually calling the package 1.0.1
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> or am I completely missing it?
<netgrabber> I don't know... maybe its better to ask someone else
<cbx33> ok
<netgrabber> dholbach: :D
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> now theres a guy who knows his stuff :p
<Gloubiboulga> hello
<cbx33> I also get this : unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}
<cbx33> but it seems a lot of packages on the net get that too and seem to ignore it
<dholbach> native packages are mostly a sign of something done wrong :)
<cbx33> grreeaattt !
<dholbach> if you have an upstream tarball, unpack it, move it to   package_version.orig.tar.gz
<dholbach> then copy your debian/ dir into the unpacked source
<dholbach> then run    debuild -S -sa
<cbx33> what's the sa option do?
<dholbach> voil! nice source packagae with .diff.gz
<cbx33> dholbach: I wrote the package
<cbx33> I hold the source
<cbx33> I'm creating the first deb of it
<dholbach> oh ok, if you don't want to have a real source tarball, or want to ship the debian/ dir with the tarball, then that's fine
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> I would like a real source tarball
<dholbach> the problem is just, that if you do a ubuntu revision with a change in debian/rules (for example), you will always have to upload a new tarball
<cbx33> and indeed my .orig.tar.gz has no debian folder
<jsgotangco> welcome to package management 101
<dholbach> if you separate it like that, you get a .orig.tar.gz, a .diff.gz and a.dsc
<dholbach> which is nice
<dholbach> that's what   -sa   is for
<cbx33> dholbach: yes that's what I want
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> so I should be building with -sa
<cbx33> instead of just -S
<dholbach> if you do with -sa the .orig.tar.gz gets uploaded too
<cbx33> -S -sa
<cbx33> ah I see
<dholbach> with -S you only upload the .diff.gz and .dsc
<dholbach> (if the .orig.tar.gz is in the archive already)
<cbx33> ok I'm going to just run it again now
<cbx33> i get it
<cbx33> i think
<cbx33> what about the unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends} ?
<cbx33> is that anything to worry about?
<cbx33> I think I've cleared almost all lintian warnings now! - though that one isn't a linitian warning
<cbx33> dholbach: I still got W: gisomount source: native-package-with-dash-version when building the source package???
<dholbach> did you rename the tarball to package_version.orig.tar.gz?
<Toadstool> dholbach: leading a spontaneous motu-school session? :)
<dholbach> package_upstreamversion.orig.tar.gz?
<cbx33> it was already named that way
<cbx33> ah
<dholbach> what is the filename?
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> Toadstool: not really
<cbx33> it'sw named gisomount-1.0.1.tar.gz
<cbx33> does it need to be _
<dholbach> Toadstool: i'm quite busy with 35 new gnome tarballs
<Toadstool> wow
<dholbach> gisomount_1.0.1.orig.tar.gz
<cbx33> yikes, I'll leave you alone :p
<dholbach> don't worry
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> ok so that's that error out the way
<cbx33> thanks dholbach
<dholbach> de rien
<cbx33> what about the unknown substitution variable ${misc:Depends}
<cbx33> should I worry about that dholbach ?
<Gloubiboulga> cbx33, don't worry about that$
<cbx33> ok excellent
<Gloubiboulga> s/that$/that
<Toadstool> hey Gloubiboulga
<cbx33> then I declare gisomount officialy deb'd
<Gloubiboulga> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> cbx33: cool :)
<cbx33> I think LaserJock is goign to upload it to universe sometime soon
<Toadstool> dholbach: good luck with gnome stuff
<Gloubiboulga> cbx33, is this a NEW package in ubuntu?
<cbx33> yes
<jsgotangco> his personal pet project
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> my first python app/first package :D
<slomo> cbx33: where's your package?
<cbx33> on my hdd at the moment :p
<cbx33> just building it for the last time
<cbx33> it's not 100% complete, needs a little tidying
<cbx33> but ogra was keen to get it into universe early
<slomo> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy  <--- did you keep that in mind for packaging?
<cbx33> yes i did
<slomo> ok, perfect :)
<cbx33> LaserJock is kind of co-writing the package with me....giving me guidence....
<cbx33> he hasn;t actually written a line of code yet :D
<cbx33> but has provided some great features
<cbx33> :D package passes flying colours
<cbx33> slomo: does that policy require that someone use setup.py ?
<slomo> no
<cbx33> good good
<slomo> it requires nothing on the upstream side, only for packaging
<cbx33> i have followed most of those
<cbx33> slomo can i ask a questions
<cbx33> in the updating your pacakges section
<cbx33> number 3
<cbx33> I'm a little confused?
<slomo> probably not relevant for your package
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> however I do have a seperate module
<slomo> could it be used from something else?
<cbx33> which i suppose would be classed as private seing as no one else is going to want it
<slomo> ok, then don't care about 3.
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> what about the byte compile
<cbx33> I presume I should do that?
<cbx33> item 7
<cbx33> and my last question is about the Section: field in the control file?  -   what do I put in there?
<slomo> yes, use dh_pycentral or dh_pysupport and dh_python
<slomo> and section will get whatever section your package should go to :) what does it do?
<cbx33> it's a gui mounter for isos
<cbx33> its a utility
<cbx33> utils?
<AnAnt> what is the difference between current uploads & archived uploads ?
<AnAnt> one of my recent uploads I found it under archived uploads.
<slomo> cbx33: does it need gnome? does it need X?
<slomo> first case: gnome, second case: x11, otherwise utils should be fine too
<cbx33> whats the diff between pycentral and pysupport ??yes i need gnome and X
<Gloubiboulga> AnAnt, which package isit?
<slomo> cbx33: so make it section gnome
<slomo> cbx33: and i have no idea what the real difference between both is ;) just use whatever you want :)
<Gloubiboulga> we archive when the package has been uploaded to the repos
<cbx33> slomo: it's knowing where to start
<cbx33> i knew I'd have to use one or the other :p
<cbx33> slomo: I presume we have to use a lightly modified debhelper version
<cbx33> like 5.0.7
<cbx33> as 5.0.37.2 isn't in ubuntu
<slomo> it is
<slomo> and you need it ;)
<cbx33> oh
<slomo> and i prefer python-central if that helps you :)
<cbx33> :S
<cbx33> ok cool I'll go with that
<cbx33> I did a dpkg -l | grep debhelper
<cbx33> and got 5.0.7
<slomo> are you on edgy?
<cbx33> ah no
<cbx33> crap
<slomo> ok ;)
<cbx33> Grrrr
* cbx33 deletes his chroot
<cbx33> I have a perfect pacakge for dapper :p
<Toadstool> it won't be too hard to make it perfect for edgy then ;)
<cbx33> nope
* cbx33 gets to work
<cbx33> ok guys, I think i cheated last time
<cbx33> what's the proper way to ubild an edgy chroot
<cbx33> when my debootstrap package doesn't have an edgy script
<cbx33> last time I downloaded the source for the edgy debootstrap pacakge and nicked the script - what's the official way
<Toadstool> build a dapper chroot and dist-upgrade it to edgy? :)
<phanatic> cbx33: there is a tutorial in the wiki. build a dapper chroot, the upgrade it
<phanatic> s/the/then
<cbx33> phanatic: that makes perfect sense
<Gloubiboulga> hello phanatic :)
* cbx33 is about to throw himself off a cliff
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga :)
<slomo> cbx33: or simply copy the dapper script and s/dapper/edgy/
<cbx33> will that work?
<slomo> yes
<cbx33> ok
<slomo> unless is not bootstrapable atm ;)
<tseng> we should put debootstrap in dapper-updates
<tseng> a little lat enow
<Toadstool> slomo: uh... i'm not sure s/dapper/edgy/ works...
<slomo> Toadstool: it worked for me *shrug* :)
<Toadstool> dapper -> gcc-4.0, edgy -> gcc-4.1, isn't it an issue for instance?
<tseng> ?
<Toadstool> (if you don't upgrade you chroot before using it)
<imbrandon_> s/dapper/edgy works thats how i did my chroot
* Toadstool surrenders :)
<imbrandon_> Toadstool, why would that matter, if your dis-upgrading the chroot
<imbrandon_> it will make it 4.1
<imbrandon_> s/dis-/dist-
<Toadstool> imbrandon_: yeah I dist-upgraded my dapper chroot too, but slomo was speaking about s/dapper/edgy/ in the debootstrap script and I was wondering whether it wouldn't lead to some glitches if you don't upgrade it before using it (which is more or less the same thing as dist-upgrading a dapper chroot :)
<Hobbsee> hi again all
<Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
<imbrandon_> heya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool :)  imbrandon_
<imbrandon_> Toadstool, ahh i thought we was talking chroot not debootstrap, i got arround that by installing edgy debootstrap in dapper ;)
<imbrandon_> may not be the "correct" way but it worked
<cbx33> imbrandon_: yup
<Toadstool> heh
<cbx33> that's what I did last time
<imbrandon_> btw Hobbsee i watched it and billie/rose doesnt die ;)
<imbrandon_> ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: oh good
<imbrandon_> shhhhhh i dident say that
<cbx33> ok this is strange
<cbx33> the dapper script doesn't have the word dapper in it?
<imbrandon_> it gets it from the pbuilderrc and/or from the -dapper in the script name ( not the top )
<imbrandon_> s/not/note
<cbx33> it does it by name :D
<cbx33> yes i just realise
<imbrandon_> made so you can make pbuilder-sid or pbuilder-breezy etc
<imbrandon_> wb
<Hobbsee> bleh.  kdesktop or something froze
<AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: lftp
<AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: sorry I was away
<AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: and no, I don't find it in the edgy repos
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> errors in installing some packages :(
<cbx33> gnupg for one
<Hobbsee> cbx33: edgy?
<cbx33> which is gonna put a spanner in the works
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> a second run through and we're all ok
<Hobbsee> --> malone
<Hobbsee> nothing's supposed to work.
<cbx33> hehehe
<Hobbsee> :P
<cbx33> I'm getting a lintian error
<cbx33> is this known about
<cbx33> ???
<cbx33>  /bin/pwd: couldn't find directory entry in `../../../..' with matching i-node Use of uninitialized value in string at /usr/share/lintian/checks/cruft line 67.Can't stat : No such file or directory
<seaLne> has anyone come accros problems with "stack smashing detected" in programs is it default now?
<seaLne> ah https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gcc-ssp :-/
<seaLne> so anyone know what to do if a program in a package fails due to this
<highvoltage> crimsun: hi there
<\sh> highvoltage: congrats to your new business :)
<jsgotangco> yes in a few years we will be sending our resumes to him
<highvoltage> \sh: thanks!
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: we can only hope ;)
<Gloubiboulga> I thought that dist-upgrading would be more painful
<Gloubiboulga> everything works, that's not funny :)
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Gloubiboulga> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Gloubiboulga
<jsgotangco> goodnight
<Hobbsee> night jsgotangco
* Hobbsee looks around for a MOTU
* fowlduck waves to Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hey fowlduck
* sharms waves to everyone
<Hobbsee> hi sharms
* Hobbsee wonders who sharms is.
<tseng> he doesnt have a name
<tseng> useful.
<Hobbsee> ah
<Hobbsee> hi tseng
<tseng> [freenode]  -|-  ircname  : mindwarp
<sharms> I am just a hopefully, nothing to see here
<sharms> err hopeful
<tseng> it would be helpful to have a real name in /whois
<Hobbsee> sharms: bah.  you're still a person.  i just havent seen your nick around here much before
<tseng> so we know who you are :)
* Hobbsee doesnt have her realname in her whois.
<sharms> tseng: will do
<sharms> at any rate real name = Steven Harms
* fowlduck didn't know Hobbsee was even a she
<tseng> thanks.
<Yagisan> fowlduck: I've actually *seen* her, outside of IRC. I can confirm that she is a she
<Yagisan> and not one of the many impostors on the net
<Yagisan> welcome to the Internet, were the men are men, the women are men, and little girls are FBI agents ;)
<Hobbsee> fowlduck: hehe, a lot dont.  it's easier that way.
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe
* Hobbsee isnt a FBI agent
<Hobbsee> yeah, guess i have been seen now.  hmm.
<linuxmonkey> Hobbsee:  ofcourse not your an A.S.I.S
<Hobbsee> heh
<linuxmonkey> your from australia
<linuxmonkey> ?
<Hobbsee> yes
<linuxmonkey> http://www.asis.gov.au/
<Yagisan> linuxmonkey: ASIS == Aussie CIA, You'd be thinking more of AFP instead
<linuxmonkey> oh es
<linuxmonkey> yes
<Yagisan> although if memory serves, it's closer in function to MI6 in Britain
<linuxmonkey> lol
<sharms> I am from Michigan
<sharms> we are getting a new google building supposedly
<Yagisan> I had an interview with intelligence services once, they had men with machine guns pointed at me when I walked in the door =-O
<Yagisan> I didn't get the job though. Some sort of ethics issue
<Hobbsee> eek
<Yagisan> should we trust him - he looks like he enjoys it too much
<Yagisan> nah, lets give it to the older guy
<Yagisan> it was helpdesk too. I mean WTF ? helpdesk.
<sharms> that is odd
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> my chroot won't connect to the outiside world now I'm home :(
<cbx33> DNs resolution failure
<cbx33> I've modified the resolv.conf
<cbx33> what else could be wrong
<cbx33> fixed :D
<sharms> what was wrong?
<bddebian> LaserJock!!
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> LaserJock: I just got an e-mail that they merged my .desktop file in polyxmass-bin :-(
<LaserJock> bddebian: \o/
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<bddebian> LaserJock: No, this is in Debian ;-P
<cbx33> :( - package was done
<cbx33> then I noticed some things I'd missed in the new debian policy for python docs
<cbx33> now I'm stuck
<cbx33> :(
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> sorry, I was to go over that today myself
<cbx33> it's ok
<cbx33> I wanted to ask you
<cbx33> our config module, is strictly for gisomount
<cbx33> in that case, it's a private module right
<cbx33> and in that case it shouldn't go in site-packages
<cbx33> where should it go?
<LaserJock> I asked myself that very same question last night, let me pull it up
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> and also how familiar are you with py_central
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> I"m not, yet
<cbx33> you're gonna have to be :p
<LaserJock> looks like /usr/share/gisomount/
<cbx33> ok that's cool
<cbx33> it's looking more and more like we're going to have to use setup.py
<LaserJock> I know, I need to get that package I maintain in debian up to speed
<cbx33> because modules need to be byte compiled now for python
<cbx33> I have a small problem with my edgy chroot too, but it's a linitian issue I'm not sure why
<LaserJock> cbx33: the modules are automatically byte compiled with dh_python
<cbx33> but is that assuming they are define in setup.py?
<cbx33> how do i tell it :p
<LaserJock> cbx33: no
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> I just read man
<cbx33> I'll give it a shot
<LaserJock> maybe it's true, but I didn't think so
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> LaserJock, are you busy?
<cbx33> or is that a silly question
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> I've actually just woken up
<cbx33> ok nm
<LaserJock> so ask away before I'm busy ;-)
<cbx33> can I send you a tar of everythin so you can take a quick look?
<LaserJock> btw, the debian-python list is full of "Oh my gosh, what do I do now?" emails ;-)
<cbx33> hahah
<cbx33> good :p
<bddebian> I'm sure
<LaserJock> I'm guess we can find some stuff there
<cbx33> I'm confused and I just had it all sorted
<cbx33> I'm tarring my build dir now
<LaserJock> I think this new policy will be good for us
<LaserJock> but we just need to figure it out
<bddebian> Aye
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/gisomount-build2.tar.gz
<cbx33> see what you think LaserJock
<LaserJock> hmm, what's the *i386 stuff about?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> that was when I was using any instead of all
<cbx33> for the arch
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> ignore it
<cbx33> I havn't had a chance to clean up the dr yet
<cbx33> if you do a dpkg -c on the deb
<cbx33> you can see it's changing the directory that it wants to put it in
<cbx33> and it's putting it in pycentral
<cbx33> :S
<LaserJock> interesting
<cbx33> and I need to pull out the configure and stamp bits from rules
<cbx33> I made the man page earlier to fix that linitian warning
<cbx33> from the dh_pycentral man page "dh_pycentral is a debhelper program that will scan your package, detect public Python modules and move them in /usr/share/pycentral so that python-central can byte-compile those for all supported Python versions. Extensions are kept into the original installation location."
<LaserJock> right
<cbx33> but the the compiled versions don't show up in the dpkg -c ?
<cbx33> should they?
<LaserJock> no
<cbx33> ok
* cbx33 tries and install
<cbx33> s/and/an
<LaserJock> the .py will be compilled postinstall by pycentral on the users machine
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I can remove my prerm
<cbx33> since dh_pycentral should take care of that now
<LaserJock> postinst I would think as well
<FunnyLookinHat> Hey guys....   Anyone care to comment on why MythTV version .19 isn't in the repos?
<cbx33> i never had one of those
<LaserJock> did you manual build in this dir
<cbx33> nope
<bddebian> Damnit, I can't get to my machine at home :-(
<LaserJock> looks like it's got all the automatically added stuff
<cbx33> it has
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> I havn't cleaned it all up yet
<LaserJock> bddebian: dang, I hate that
<cbx33> ok LaserJock
<cbx33> i need to put pygtk as a dependency
<cbx33> manually?
<cbx33> seeing as it didn;t pick that up
<cbx33> and glade too
<LaserJock> yep
<cbx33> python-glade2 and python-gtk2 ---- I don;t need python2.4-glade2 or python2.4-gtk2 ?
<cbx33> which do I use ?
<LaserJock> python-glade2 and python-gtk2
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> swat I thought
<cbx33> shouldn't the depends script pick that up in the control file?
<cbx33> LaserJock, how do you in a control file tell it to install those pacakges
<cbx33> I get
<cbx33>  gisomount depends on python-glade2; however:
<cbx33>   Package python-glade2 is not installed.
<cbx33>  gisomount depends on python-gtk2; however:
<cbx33>   Package python-gtk2 is not installed.
<LaserJock> what do you have installed?
<cbx33> none
<Amaranth> how do you not have those installed? kubuntu?
<cbx33> it's the first time I installed gisomount in my new chroot
<Amaranth> oh
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> normally it will say I'm goingto install these as well
<cbx33> how do I get it to do that?
<LaserJock> apt-get -f install will grab deps
<bluefoxicy> argh help I forgot the dpkg-buildpackage command again
<cbx33> but it noramlly does that by default for most pacakges
<bluefoxicy> -S -something -something -rfakeroot
<LaserJock> bluefoxicy: debuild -S works
<bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  last I used debuild it broke but I guess I can try again.
<LaserJock> depends on what exactly you want to do :-)
<bluefoxicy> trying to build a source package for revu
<cbx33> do you know what I mean LaserJock
<bluefoxicy> yeah
<bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  debuild gets a fatal error still.
<LaserJock> bluefoxicy: debuild -S -sa
<LaserJock> bluefoxicy: wha?
<LaserJock> somethings wrong then
<bluefoxicy> gpg: problem with the agent - disabling agent use
<bluefoxicy> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<bluefoxicy> (oddly enough running dpkg-buildpackage brings up the agent)
<LaserJock> oh, well that's your issue, not debuilds
<bluefoxicy> well
<LaserJock> odd
<bluefoxicy> if I don't run or install seahorse it does the same thing.
<LaserJock> can you debsign?
<bluefoxicy> I actually installed seahorse to try and get it to listen
<bluefoxicy> yeah debsign works
<hub> Gloubiboulga: regarding http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2419, it is already for edgy
<hub> Gloubiboulga: what is the problem?
<LaserJock> odd, since debuild is a wrapper for dpkg-buildpackage+lintian+debsign
<bluefoxicy> I know.
<Hobbsee> hub: does it say edgy or dapper in the changelog?
<bluefoxicy> it's very odd because debsign fails
<LaserJock> bluefoxicy: well, whatever. you need -S -sa -rfakeroot
<bluefoxicy> but if I run debsign on its own it works.
<hub> Hobbsee: it does say edgy
<LaserJock> bluefoxicy: I guess dbuild must be passing something bad to debsign
<Hobbsee> hub: ah okay - i just took a guess, didnt dpkg-source it
* bluefoxicy shrugs, and also nukes most of changelog and just sticks in * Initial package
<Gloubiboulga> hub, I was talking about standars/debhelper compat actually
<cbx33> LaserJock, so is there no way to make it automatically install the python pacakges unless
<cbx33> unles we use -f?
<Gloubiboulga> hub, but it wasn't obvious at all, I admit ;)
<LaserJock> cbx33: what?
<LaserJock> cbx33: it's looking good
<cbx33> it's funny if you install compiz-gnome it automatically installs compiz
<cbx33> can we do that for gisomount and the python deps
<cbx33> so it doesn't fail
<cbx33> but says I'm gonna install these for you?
<LaserJock> cbx33: in Depends: in debian/control
<hub> Gloubiboulga: what is the standard version exepcted?
<cbx33> LaserJock, they are listed in my version
<LaserJock> cbx33: then they will be installed :-)
<LaserJock> hub: 2.7.2 I believe
<cbx33> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, ${python:Depends}, python-glade2, python-gtk2
<cbx33> is the line
<LaserJock> great
<hub> LaserJock: which is lower than 3.6.1
<cbx33> but I get dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of gisomount:
<cbx33>  gisomount depends on python-glade2; however:
<cbx33>   Package python-glade2 is not installed.
<cbx33>  gisomount depends on python-gtk2; however:
<cbx33>   Package python-gtk2 is not installed.
<cbx33> dpkg: error processing gisomount (--install):
<hub> LaserJock: which is lower than 3.6.2
<cbx33> sorry for the flood guys
<LaserJock> hub: doh, sorry 3.7.2
<hub> where is the list?
<LaserJock> cbx33: right, that happens because you are using dpkg ;-)
<LaserJock> hub: list of what?
<cbx33> ah
<cbx33> ok np
<cbx33> thanks of course
<cbx33> I'm so stupid
<hub> LaserJock: standards version and compat
<LaserJock> hub: look at the Debian changelog for debian-policy and debhelper respectively
<hub> how would one guess?
<Hobbsee> current compat is what?  5?
<cbx33> LaserJock, I think we're getting there
<cbx33> will python look in pycentral for modules by default?
<Hobbsee> it's not 3, i know that much
<Hobbsee> it's either 4 or 5
<LaserJock> yeah, compat is 5 and standards version is 3.7.2
<Gloubiboulga> 'apt-cache policy debian-policy' gives the Standards-Version
<LaserJock> Gloubiboulga: only for your current system ;-)
<Hobbsee> right
<Gloubiboulga> LaserJock, right, but I'm on edgy ^^
<hub> Gloubiboulga: given that I still build on dapper
<Hobbsee> you can still get at all that thru pbuilder login
<LaserJock> or look at the Debian changelog, it's not that hard folks ;-)
<LaserJock> http://packages.qa.debian.org/d/debian-policy.html
<hub> that does not talk about Edgy
<hub> *sigh*
<LaserJock> Edgy has nothing to do with it
<LaserJock> Edgy uses the Debian unstable version
<hub> given the request, it has
<hub> "update for edgy" was the request
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> and edgy comes from Debian unstable
<LaserJock> we don't change Debian's policy
<hub> debian stable change every day
<cbx33> LaserJock, it seems to sork
<cbx33> s/sork/work
<cbx33> :D
<LaserJock> the point is, look towards Debian when you need Standards Version and compat
<LaserJock> because they determine the policy for those
<LaserJock> and we shouldn't be deviating from that
<cbx33> LaserJock, will gisomount goto REVU ?
<LaserJock> cbx33: if you upload it ;-)
<cbx33> should it !
<cbx33> s/!/?
<Yagisan> cbx33: load it up
<cbx33> nooooo...I'm scared
<cbx33> got some cleaning up to do yet
<LaserJock> cbx33: go for it, we can thrash it and then you can upload again
<cbx33> as LaserJock can see
<Yagisan> cbx33: who knows, maybe someone will actually look at it :-P
* cbx33 resents Yagisan's remark :p
<LaserJock> clean it up as well as you can, then upload it
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> :S
<Gloubiboulga> hub, I thought you was aware of the versions we use, that's why I've not commented much, sorry
<Yagisan> cbx33: (I think they squeeze revu in, like 30 minutes before edgy closes)
<cbx33> :p
<LaserJock> Yagisan: bah, not always. don't be scarring contributors off like that ;-)
* cbx33 deletes gisomount 
<Yagisan> LaserJock: I'm one of the contributors!!
<hub> Gloubiboulga: uploaded a new version
<cbx33> not worth it :p
<Yagisan> cbx33: don't be such as wuss, how can it be worse then mine ?
<cbx33> LaserJock, all the conifugre and build stuff can go can't it?
<cbx33> in the ruls file?
<LaserJock> don't get rid of the rules themselves
<LaserJock> just leave them empty
<cbx33> just make them blank
<cbx33> yeh sure
<cbx33> but like build-stamp
<cbx33> is that needed?
<LaserJock> it helps make sure you don't try to build twice
<azeem> only if you do real work in it
<LaserJock> right
<cbx33> ok
* cbx33 leaves it in
<LaserJock> cbx33: wrt, " will python look in pycentral for modules by default?"
<siretart> any kubuntu guy interested in having an updated xine? :P
<siretart> s/guy/dev/
<LaserJock> hehe, is that a hint siretart
<LaserJock> cbx33: I believe pycentral will compile the module and install it in the right places
<siretart> slomo: no. serious. I don't know if I will have time tomorrow to merge xine
<siretart> and thu is the deadline :(
<cbx33> LaserJock, yes it does
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> do they have to have pycentral on their machine though?
<siretart> if somebody else wants to merge it, I have a bzr branch with 1.1.2 xine for debian ready
<LaserJock> cbx33: right
<slomo> siretart: i don't have any time for it neither :( i'll write an exam tomorrow. did you already ask in #kubuntu-dev?
<LaserJock> bbl
<cbx33> ok
<siretart> slomo: not yet, but need to run now
<slomo> siretart: ok, i'll ask there
<siretart> thanks
<siretart> I'll see if I can come online later again, but no promises
<cbx33> slomo, I think I'm getting there :p
<cbx33> I think I conform to the New Policy now :D
<cbx33> if we use pycentral, does that mean they have to have that instlaled on their machine to install tha package?
<siretart> slomo: I have updated my branches on tauware, just in case you find someone ;)
<slomo> cbx33: yes and you have it already installed on edgy anyway... together with python-support ;)
<cbx33> ok excellent
<cbx33> then it's all coming together nicely
<cbx33> could have a pckage ready by the end of the day
<cbx33> if I'm using gisomount.dirs and gisomount.install
<cbx33> can i delete the dirs and files and docs files that the automatica process generated
<cbx33> ?
<cbx33> actually
<cbx33> I think i need all but dirs
<bluefoxicy> ........
<bluefoxicy> synaptic says there is a new package "python-pyorbit-omg"
<cbx33> it's ok I'm just going crazy
<cbx33> heh
<bluefoxicy> "OMG standard files"
<slomo> bluefoxicy: so what? :)
<bluefoxicy> slomo:  omg, I dunno wtf?
<tseng> hah shut up bluefoxicy
<slomo> bluefoxicy: www.omg.org :P
<bluefoxicy> tseng omg hi :)
<sharms> oh for a second I thought I was in #ubuntu by the "omg"'s
<zul> http://www.sungate.co.uk/?p=256
<sharms> nice article but the page design is bad
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> what does the dirs file do in the debian foldeR?
<bddebian> Makes the dirs for your package
<cbx33> if I have a package.dirs file
<cbx33> do i need it?
<bddebian> ?
<cbx33> in my debian folder i have
<cbx33> gisomount.dirs
<cbx33> and gisomount.install
<bddebian> One of the debhelper scripts (dh_install I think) uses them to create the dirs and files that go into the package
<bddebian> I assume you also have a gisomount.files ?
<cbx33> nope
<bddebian> Oh, maybe it's just dh_installdirs that uses it?
<bddebian> I don't have my machine handy to check :-(
<Gloubiboulga> dh_installdirs create the dirs
<Gloubiboulga> listed in package.dirs
<cbx33> ok
<bddebian> Gloubiboulga: thanks
<cbx33> so i can remove the dirs folder
<cbx33> file
<bddebian> If you are creating the dirs and not using dh_installdirs, sure
<cbx33> I'm using dh_installdirs, which uses the package.dirs file, so the single file called dirs can go
<cbx33> ?
<bddebian> Oooh, sorry I misunderstood you.  Yes, I think so
<cbx33> hehe ok thanks
<LaserJock> raphink: ping?
<LaserJock> raphink: unping, sorry ;-)
<LaserJock> and revu admins awake?
<zul> mmmmm....xen....xen-headers-2.6.16-1_2.6.16-1_i386.deb
<linuxmonkey> LaserJock: no I shot em all
<LaserJock> doh
<linuxmonkey> i shot em in the foot so they should be back soon
<zul> amd then bddebian ate their babies
<FunnyLookinHat> Anyone here in charge of MythTV ?
<LaserJock> zul: ewww
<zul> yeah...i thought so too
<Yagisan> so, zul, you actually get bddebian on film eating those babies ?
<LaserJock> I'm sure it's on a blog somewhere
<Yagisan> only a blog ? but how am I supposed to kick back and watch while eating popcorn with two hands :(
<zul> Yagisan: no but i bet its on youtube somewhere
<LaserJock> lol, I did a google search for "bddebian eats babies"
<LaserJock> and got "Did you mean: debian eats babies"
<Yagisan> heh
<cbx33> like that would give any better results
<crimsun_> bockman: I've pinged the ftp admin several times, but he hasn't responded yet (probably due to being incredibly busy)
<bockman> bureaucracy :\
<lloydinho> crimsun: He is in the Community Council meeting right now.
<lloydinho> It's not really that bureaucratic..
<bockman> well this is taking as long as one, you'd think it would be
<crimsun_> bockman: no, elmo's just incredibly busy. I've done all I can do, but I'll ask someone else to retry the upload with their own sig.
<LaserJock> crimsun_: what's up?
<tseng> afaik elmo doesnt do archive maintainance in ubuntu
<tseng> keybuk and infinity do
<bockman> well i know you've done your part in speedily taking care of this, crimsun_
<bockman> i'm just kind of frustrated.
<crimsun_> tseng: I think he still does for -security (at least I was directed to him by pitti)
<bddebian> Ack WTF did I miss? :-)
<tseng> bddebian: crying.
<tseng> crimsun_: maybe old -security is still on the old infrastructure
<tseng> for breezy and such
<crimsun_> tseng: no idea, but this is a breezy-security upload, true
<tseng> and only elmo can speak to that
<tseng> or so we are led to believe
<bddebian> tseng: Who is crying?
<LaserJock> hehe
<tseng> bddebian: you.
* tseng hits bddebian 
<LaserJock> I'm tempted to say something related to zul's earlier comment, but I won;t
* bddebian cries
<tseng> .
<tseng> oops.
<crimsun_> LaserJock: security fixes. Got a second to recreate a source package for me, sign it, and upload to security.upload.ubuntu.com?
<crimsun_> fwiw bddebian also signed and uploaded it, and it mysteriously was blackholed for his u. Go figurepload
<crimsun> wow, talk about crack termcap
<LaserJock> crimsun_: I suppose I could, but I'd rather somebody more experienced *cough*tseng*cough* did it. ;-)
<tseng> I could, but not here
<tseng> I dont leave gpg keys lying around at work
<cbx33> tseng, good plan
<LaserJock> tseng: no?
<tseng> LaserJock: not now, no
<tseng> in a few hours maybe
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I wonder where he went
<tseng> "back to work."
<bddebian> crimsun: ?
<bddebian> Well another machine dead from trying to dist-upgrade to Edgy :'-(
<bddebian> Anyone have an Edgy machine or Edgy chroot or pbuilder login handy?
<rob> yes
<bddebian> Would you mind doing an apt-cache madison on gcl and seeing if the -17 version is in the archive yet?
<LaserJock> bddebian: not one that I want to give you as guinea pig for your sick plan to take over the world ;-)
<Yagisan> rob: ?? you actually are here ?
<bddebian> LaserJock: mwuhahaha
<rob> sure :)
<crimsun> bddebian: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gcl/2.6.7-17ubuntu1
<LaserJock> ppc :(
<bddebian> crimsun: I know it built successfully but it wasn't in the archive last night
<rob>  (edgychroot)root@graybox:~# apt-cache madison gcl
<rob>        gcl |   2.6.7-17 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Packages
<rob>        gcl |   2.6.7-17 | http://archive.ubuntu.com edgy/universe Sources
<bddebian> And all my machines are now dead or inaccessable at the moment :-(
<bddebian> Thanks rob
<crimsun> it's not a successful build.
<rob> np
<bddebian> Well on MY arch it is ;-P
<bddebian> GBC is not enabled?  WTF is that? :)
<Sp4rKy> bddebian, ping ?
<LaserJock> bddebian: oh what ever
<bddebian> Heh
#ubuntu-motu 2006-07-12
<bddebian> Later gang
<Toadstool> cya bddebian
<LaserJock> raphink: you around for real?
<raphink> I'm around, but I'm not real
<raphink> it's just an idea
<raphink> ;)
<Toadstool> heh
<Toadstool> hi raphink
<LaserJock> raphink: I can't find any revu admins, gisomount is stuck in REVU
<raphink> hi Toadstool
<raphink> LaserJock: stuck like no one has go the key?
<LaserJock> raphink: stuck as in it's in incoming but the .changes is in rejected
<raphink> hehe I guess
<raphink> what package is that?
<LaserJock> gisomount
<raphink> there its' not stuck anymore
<raphink> :)
<LaserJock> thanks
<LaserJock> anybody familiar with irc.gnome.org?
<azeem> in which regard?
<LaserJock> I need to know what ports it works on? especiall other than 6667
<crimsun> LaserJock: do you have a remote box to which to ssh?
<LaserJock> kinda
<LaserJock> every once in a while I turn on my home computer
<crimsun> then you can ssh over and either irc from there, or do as I do (tunnel everything through an external box to circumvent firewalls)
<LaserJock> yeah, let me give that a whirl real quick
<crimsun> do you use irssi?
<LaserJock> all the other networks I need have alternate ports
<LaserJock> yes, most of the time
<crimsun> 'k, cos you could just enable irssi's proxy and connect to your home pc
<LaserJock> I usually use irrsi on my mac at work
<LaserJock> I'm wanting to work on a gnome project, but I'm not sure how to go about it
<LaserJock> it seems I need gnome-common from CVS
<crimsun> jeepers, the wesnoth orig.tar.gz is 70+ MB
<LaserJock> crimsun: lol, I'm just downloading the OS X version
<crimsun> I was wondering why dput /seemed/ to be spinning
<cbx33> hi guys
<cbx33> and REVU admins here at the mo?
<bluefoxicy> :(
<bluefoxicy> anjuta can't create a new project :(
<crimsun> dapper?
<bluefoxicy> edgy
<crimsun> isn't it the 2.x branch?
<bluefoxicy> 2.0.2 yeah
<bluefoxicy> I wanted to use it to get autoconf stuff
<bluefoxicy> since I honestly have no idea how to set up an autoconf thing
<bddebian> Heya gang
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya LaserJock
<Hobbsee> morning all
<zul> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> zul: :)
<crimsun> hmm, I concur w/ mdz's intent, but my paranoia really sides with kamion and keybuk
<ajmitch> hi
<crimsun> 'lo
<zul> hmmm...
<zul> hey ajmitch
<bddebian> crimsun: :-)
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch, zul
<bluefoxicy> Naughty girl programmers fill their uninitialized memory with 0x1badbabe
<bddebian> WTF?
<Laser_away> what?
<bddebian> Laser_away: bluefoxicy's comment :-)
<Laser_away> oh, I thought you were commenting on my quite-join-away fun
* Laser_away is really away now
<bddebian> Nah :-)
<bluefoxicy> heh, it's valid hex.
<bddebian> Aye, like deadbeef :-)
<mukund> b00bface
<zul> mmmmmm...boobs
<bddebian> haha
* bddebian tries a maxima build AGAIN
<zul> sorry i should watch myself better
<imbrandon> any experinced motu arround that has a few minutes ? i got some weird makefile voodoo hapening on a merge
<bddebian> Well I'm around but I'm not sure I would say I am "experienced" :-)
* FunnyLookinHat is afraid of  bddebian and his baby eating habits...
<bddebian> FunnyLookinHat: As you should be...
<FunnyLookinHat> ;)
<bddebian> :-)
<bddebian> imbrandon: So what is the issue?
<imbrandon> sorry was in another chan till i got hilighted
<imbrandon> ummm its a ftbs on helix-player using the debian source
<imbrandon> its on MoM but
<bddebian> What's the error?
<imbrandon> only needs the *.mo files deleted to be merged but FTBS with a strange error about python i havent seen
<imbrandon> hold on lemme try to rebuild and i'll pastebin it
<phanatic> morning
<bddebian> Heya phanatic
<phanatic> heya bddebian
<bddebian> wb LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi bddebian
<bddebian> I sent maxima up and crossed my fingers :-)
<bluefoxicy> damn
<bluefoxicy> there are 5 icons in my notification tray
<bddebian> Though I wish I had a PPC box to figure out WTF is up with gcl
<LaserJock> bddebian: hmm
<LaserJock> my mac isn't even a ppc :(
<LaserJock> I can't help
<bddebian> POS :-)
<bddebian> Gnight folks
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> please what's the current depend which replace xlibs-dev ?
<cbx33> hi raphink
<cbx33> thanks for the help earlier, flushing the revu queue :D
<raphink> hi cbx33
<raphink> hmmm ... sure :)p
<raphink> )
<raphink> :)
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2684
* raphink just feels like going back to bed now
* cbx33 too
<cbx33> I've had hmm 5 hours sleep
<raphink> about the same here
<cbx33> yup, get that about every night at the moment
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: do you mean build-depends?
<cbx33> I can't believe I finally got my package into REVU
<cbx33> heheh
<raphink> great :)
<raphink> cbx33: what does it do?
<cbx33> it mounts isos as virtual devices in a nice GUI
<cbx33> just really simeple mount -o loop stuff
<raphink> ok
<cbx33> but has some other cool features
<raphink> gtk ;)
<cbx33> yup
<raphink> like what?
<cbx33> like reading of all vloume information flags
<jsgotangco> hmm you haven't been sleeping cbx33?
<cbx33> and has some quick buttons to md5sum,burn,browse the iso
<jsgotangco> or just woke up =)
<cbx33> jsgotangco, about 5 hours
<jsgotangco> ugghh
<cbx33> I think it's gonna be useful
<raphink> cbx33: it's useful to sleep, I can tell
<raphink> :s
<cbx33> heheh
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, yes
<Sp4rKy> raphink, i have been accepted like Ubuntu Member :D
<raphink> Sp4rKy: great :)
<raphink> i'm happy for you
<Sp4rKy> thx
<cbx33> congrats Sp4rKy
<Sp4rKy> i'm very happy too
<Sp4rKy> thx cbx33
<cbx33> right I'm off to make lunch
* raphink remembers the time when he became part of the ubuntu family, too ;)
<cbx33> and breakfast
<raphink> k
<crimsun> Sp4rKy: libx11-dev is the basic one; you'll need to be more precise in adding the modular X.Org dependencies.
<cbx33> raphink, yeh mine was only about a few months ago
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, k, thx
<raphink> cbx33: what have you been doing in Ubuntu so far?
<cbx33> raphink, I work a lot on edubuntu
<phanatic> Sp4rKy: congrats :)
<raphink> what part?
<phanatic> hey raphink :)
<raphink> hi phanatic
<cbx33> did a lot of the late cd iso testing, wrote the ltsp man pages, the edubuntu school advocacy, some bug fixing,
<raphink> great :)
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeteSavage
<cbx33> wrote quite a few wiki pages too
<cbx33> about PXE and integrationg with the dreaded windows
<raphink> ah you've been reviewing the packaging guide, too
<cbx33> yes I think I was the initial guinea pig when Jordan first put it al together :p
<raphink> oooh and working on AD integration, too
<raphink> very useful
<cbx33> I'm trying
<cbx33> the AD integration I have almost nailed....
<cbx33> well no I lie
<cbx33> AD integration works
<raphink> is there also a project to integrate with RH/Fedora Directory?
<cbx33> it's just the mounting of home dirs
<cbx33> that doesn't
<raphink> ok
<raphink> how well does it work?
<cbx33> the authentication works great
<raphink> what is possible with it so far?
<cbx33> logging on to an ltsp client whilst authenticating against a windows domain
<cbx33> but I believe this is also being tackled in a SoC project
<raphink> ok
<cbx33> it was the mounting of their home dir on a winodws server I wanted
<raphink> ic
<cbx33> seeing as the school I work at uses predominantly windows machines
<raphink> :s
<cbx33> and I wanted to integrate edubuntu into it
<raphink> well even when you have a majority of linux machines
<raphink> sadly enough
<cbx33> most issues are solvable
<raphink> you have to use the AD
<cbx33> yup
<raphink> because the few Windows machines won't understand anything else
<raphink> so they force the whole bunch of machines to use it
<cbx33> I just relaly believe that if edubuntu can just be almost plug ad play in a windows network, we'll make much more of a splash
<raphink> sure :)
<raphink> or just ubuntu in general ;)
<cbx33> well sure
<Sp4rKy> crimsun, when ./configure says "checking for X... no
<Sp4rKy> Sorry, X is very much needed
<Sp4rKy> "
<raphink> integrating in a windows network is really important for companies to progressively switch
<jsgotangco> would be nice in a migration mindset but what happens after migration?
<Sp4rKy> what library need i add ?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> jsgotangco, they will have seen the light
<raphink> huhu
<jsgotangco> cbx33: that's not enough really
<raphink> cbx33: good to have hope
<raphink> ;)
<cbx33> jsgotangco, I was kidding :p
<raphink> in my company, we have 90% linux machines
<cbx33> nice
<jsgotangco> same here
<raphink> but the bosses want to switch everything to windows
<cbx33> I already have put linux servers in at the school
<jsgotangco> aghhh
<cbx33> noooooooooooo
<raphink> keep the servers on linux because windows coudln't deal with it
<raphink> and switch all the desktops to windows
<raphink> so we'rejust refusing everything
<cbx33> raphink, that would eat me up inside
<Sp4rKy> raphink, just kill the boss
<raphink> if we accept their AD, we accept their windows "distribution"
<raphink> Sp4rKy: kill the boss of one of the biggest companies in the world ? ;)
<raphink> not the greatest idea ;)
<Sp4rKy> raphink, why not :)
<cbx33> raphink, what company you work for?
<jsgotangco> if we kill the boss, we'll have to find new employment for raphink
<raphink> cbx33: France Tlcom/Wanadoo/Orange
<cbx33> well I really have to go :( - it's been great talking to you and if anyone gets a chance :p - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2684
<raphink> quite everybody in this company work on Windows from what I've heard
<raphink> except people in my location
<Sp4rKy> raphink, put up an Ubuntu distribution with WIndows theme :D
<raphink> who are still pretty free to work on whatever they want, so far
<jsgotangco> well wanadoo is pretty big
<raphink> jsgotangco: wanadoo doesn't exist anymore. It's called Orange now :)
<raphink> it's become part of Orange that is
<jsgotangco> ahhh
<jsgotangco> but i remember having a wanadoo hostname in france...
<raphink> sure
<raphink> :)
<raphink> the switch wanadoo->orange took place last month
<raphink> in France+UK
<raphink> and next month in NL I think
<raphink> and other countries should come next
<raphink> some of my colleagues have said they will leave the company if they have to work on windows
<raphink> which I think might be my case too
<raphink> I wouldn't accept to work on packaging/conf deployment for Debian without having a Debian/Ubuntu destkop
<jsgotangco> yeah
<raphink> it's like trying to eat soup with a fork
* cbx33 remembers an ep of scrubs with a reference to soup eating with a fork :p
<cbx33> I used to have a wanadoo internet account
<raphink> cbx33: I used to, aswell, long time ago ;)
<cbx33> hehe
<raphink> wouldn't get one today ;)
<cbx33> nope
* cbx33 has 8Mb BB now and wouldn't switch away for anything lower
<raphink> cbx33 has 23Mb BB now and wouldn't let wanadoo make it lower ;)
<raphink> oops
<raphink> s/cbx33/raphink/
<raphink> I guess I'm tired
<raphink> :s
<raphink> let's go take a shower and try to wake up a bit ;)
<cbx33> yeh i may be able to get 24Mb in august
<raphink> great :)
<cbx33> right yup I'mm off too
<raphink> :)
<cbx33> gotta say goodbye to he missus before i go to work
<raphink> hehe
<cbx33> still sleeping bless her
<raphink> hehe :)
<dholbach> good morning
<raphink> hallo dholbach
<imbrandon> moins dholbach
<raphink> wie geht es dir heute?
<imbrandon> anyone know when they will start to process the backport requests ?
<dholbach> raphink: gut geht's mir! comment a va?
<dholbach> hey raphink, imbrandon
<dholbach> imbrandon: you have to file bugs for that
<imbrandon> dholbach, i did
<raphink> bien merci dholbach :)
<dholbach> imbrandon: ah ok - did you subscribe the backporters team?
<imbrandon> dholbach, i think so , can you look it over and make sure i did it correct
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kbfx/+bug/52343
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52343 in kbfx "[ backport ]  kbfx 0.4.9.1+0.4.9.2rc1 from edgy to dapper-backports" [Untriaged,Confirmed] 
<crimsun> imbrandon: when we get confirmation that the soyuz backend is ready, we'll begin.
<imbrandon> reason i ask is i was just helping someon with kbfx in dapper and that fixes the bug he was having
<imbrandon> crimsun, cool
<dholbach> hmmmmm, coffee
<imbrandon> crimsun, dont mean to be a pita or a newb but any eta on that ? or just purely a guess ? dont worry i wont hold ya too it ;)
<crimsun> gar, not another dash/bash issue
<crimsun> imbrandon: no idea, and it's beyond our [ubuntu-backport's]  control.
<imbrandon> cool ok , thanks though ;)
<Gloubiboulga> hello world
<Hobbsee> hi all
<\sh> moins
<dholbach> Easier MOTUing! :-)
<Hobbsee> hey dholbach
<Hobbsee> dholbach: what about it?
<dholbach> it's time to kick it off!
<Gloubiboulga> YES :)
<dholbach> just set a mail to the list
<jsgotangco> now?
* jsgotangco checks email
<Hobbsee> dholbach: which list?  motu list?
* Hobbsee should get off the digest of that.
<dholbach> yeah
<jsgotangco> reviving the motu school is a big +1
<crimsun> Hobbsee: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-July/000734.html  if you need it.
<dholbach> jsgotangco: MOTU/School/Requests
<Hobbsee> crimsun: thanks
* StevenK isn't even subscribed to -motu.
<Hobbsee> silly StevenK :P
<Hobbsee> there's useful stuff there
<Gloubiboulga> is there a problem with the wiki?
<Gloubiboulga> https://wiki.u.c is empty for me :(
<jsgotangco> doh! LP is acting up
<jsgotangco> The authentication database is temporarily unavailable. Anonymous access only.
<Gloubiboulga> ah yes
* dholbach quickly saves wiki page locally
<dholbach> *phew*
<Seveas> Gloubiboulga, it's just dead-slow
<jsgotangco> lol
<dholbach> I'd be happy if you could add yourself to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors
<Gloubiboulga> Seveas, yes...
<Seveas> it's solved already
<Seveas> well, sort-of
<Seveas> still slow, but I appear to be logged in 
<dholbach> and add ideas to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests
<Seveas> dholbach, you wanted a bot? 
<jsgotangco> ahh there
<jsgotangco> its back
* dholbach  Easier MOTUing
<dholbach> Seveas: oh... we didn't add that bit to the spec
<Seveas> dholbach, I just read your mail
<dholbach> Seveas: somebody brought up the idea to try to make use of a bot for frequently asked questions in motu land
<Seveas> dholbach, well, it's here 
<dholbach> Ubugtu: @tell dholbach about merging .... or something
<dholbach> :-p
<Seveas> Do you want a completely separate database for questions?
<dholbach> dunno if it has to be separate
<dholbach> not sure if that makes sense
<Seveas> %config channel plugins.encyclopedia.database ubuntu
<ubotu> OK
<dholbach> Seveas: if we collect sort of a FAQ on a wiki page, is it easy for you to feed it to the bot's brain?
<Seveas> sure
<dholbach> super :)
<dholbach> ubotu: you're hired!
<ubotu> I know nothing about you're hired!
<dholbach> hahaha
<dholbach> ubotu: you don't know what will hit you :)
<ubotu> I know nothing about you don't know what will hit you :)
<Seveas> !ubotu > dholbach
<imbrandon> !bot
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbotuUsage
<imbrandon> Seveas, same factoids about everywhere else ?
<dholbach> rock on
<Seveas> imbrandon, yes
<imbrandon> good good
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> dholbach, " !tell so_and_so about <fact> " works too ;)
<Seveas> imbrandon, !fact > persion is shorter
<dholbach> imbrandon, Seveas: thanks a lot
<imbrandon> Seveas, yea but i always end up typing !name < fact
<imbrandon> can you make both work ?
<\sh> !tell me how to brew coffee with ubuntu dapper
<ubotu> I know nothing about tell me how to brew coffee with ubuntu dapper
<\sh> hmmm...we need to know ;)
<Seveas> imbrandon, would mean quite a bit of code duplication or making a regex that is already insane super insane
<Seveas> so it can be done, but I prefer not to
<imbrandon> hehe np , was just a thought , no biggie
<dholbach> if we could get cracking on the wiki (CategoryMOTU), I think that'd be a good first step
<imbrandon> what would be nice is instead of "I know nothing about ....." be like "<blah> : not in database , try searching http://wiki.ubuntu.com " to stop all the !something_silly_here in -offtopic chans
* imbrandon pokes Seveas incase you went to another chan lookup ^^ hehe
<imbrandon> dholbach, what needs to be done ( on the wiki that is )
<imbrandon> just general cleanup ?
<dholbach> clean up, chuck out pages that are stale, move pages to namespaces as we outlined them in http://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasierMotuing
<dholbach> i know that it's quite some work, but if we all pick a page it should be done in no time :)
<imbrandon> ahh okie, i have nothing better to do atm, i'll see what i can help with ;)
<imbrandon> is there a way for me to display all "CategoryMOTU" pages ?
<dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CategoryMOTU
<Seveas> !imbrandon
<ubotu> I know nothing about imbrandon - try searching bots.ubuntulinux.nl, help.ubuntu.com and wiki.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> nice Seveas ;)
<imbrandon> !fast cars and slow women
<ubotu> I know nothing about fast cars and slow women - try searching bots.ubuntulinux.nl, help.ubuntu.com and wiki.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> dumb question but are the debain/changelogs installed somewhere on the computer when  a package is installed ?
<dholbach>  /usr/share/doc/<package>/changelog.Debian.gz
<Seveas> but only if you use dh_installchangelogs 
<imbrandon> ahh
<imbrandon> so most packages wont have this ( unless its part of cdbs ) ?
<imbrandon> erm that made no sense , nvm
<dholbach> imbrandon: most packages do it :)
<Seveas> and I'm pretty sure cdbs does it too
* Hobbsee doestn remember, even though she modified part of cdbs.
<crimsun> a package without a Debian changelog is worth filing a serious bug on
<Gloubiboulga> is there a way to suscribe to all the MOTU/ wiki pages in one shot?
<Seveas> Gloubiboulga, yes
<Seveas> in your profilepage
<Seveas> regex-based subscriptions are very useful 
<StevenK> I thought it was wildcarded?
<Gloubiboulga> thanks Seveas
<siretart> uuh, busy wiki traffik here..
<dholbach> if somebody could revamp wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU - that'd be awesome
<dholbach> i feel it's a bit clattered and could be a bit more inviting
<dholbach> but maybe I'm the only one with that feeling :)
<crimsun> iubuntu-artwork (29) looks interesting.
<dholbach> ug
<Seveas> speaking of which: what are the chances that a feace browser gdm theme will be added for edgy?
<imbrandon> iubuntu ?
<jsgotangco> hehehe
<dholbach> crimsun: thank god it was not the changelog entry for the recent upload :)
<jsgotangco> yeah i noticed that oo
<imbrandon> Seveas, +1 ( and for kdm too )
<crimsun> dholbach: :)
<dholbach> Seveas: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> Seveas: that's the best guess for that question
<Seveas> dholbach, the theme is there already
<Seveas> I had it prepared for jdub for dapper months ago...
<dholbach> i think decisions will be taken there
<imbrandon> even if it was just included and not default i would be happy
* imbrandon had to get one from kde-look.org
<imbrandon> zouch /MOTU is kinda ugly , hrm
<dholbach> i'm happy to see we get more MOTU/Mentors
* Hobbsee wouldnt want to mentorl
<imbrandon> montors? heh i just poke anyone ;)
* Hobbsee is no good at mentoring from scratch
<imbrandon> mentors*
<slomo_> dholbach: done ;)
<dholbach> the MOTU Mentors are more about helping people to get in touch with the team
<imbrandon> i guess crimsun+dholbach+ajmitch+riddell+bddebian qualify as my mentors ;)
<dholbach> to help them feel comfortable with the lists, with the irc channel, guide them to talk to the right people
<dholbach> we should be able to point them to FAQ or something else - not necessarily tell them how to use simple-patchsys.mk or whatever :)
<imbrandon> ahh by that name i thought more of a teach how to package one on one
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> oh grrr!  why doesnt this patch like me?
<imbrandon> dholbach, yea mentors in that sense is great ( i just use -motu as a mentor lol )
<imbrandon> but i see what you mean about someon coming from the outside
<raphink> dholbach: I saw you just added MOTU/School to the MOTU main page. Just wondering: is there any more conf planned ?
<dholbach> yeah, some people might feel intimidated by the whole lot of processes and people
<dholbach> raphink: absolutely
<raphink> what/where?
<dholbach> raphink: we have to establish the processes for this and make sure we get some more sessions - i think that 15-20 minutes of talking and some demo or discussion afterwards qualifies perfectly as a motu school session
* imbrandon is still intidated at times but gets past it to learn ,  cuz if i learn it i can later tell someone else and take the load off crimsun+you and crew ;)
<imbrandon> intimidated*
<raphink> sure dholbach :)
<dholbach> raphink: we are still planning
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I'd like to sign up as a mentor
<raphink> is it just about putting my name on the wiki page?
<dholbach> raphink: yep
<raphink> or is there an LP group or so?
<dholbach> no, not yet, and I'm not sure there is need for that yet
<raphink> ok
<dholbach> if you disagree we could add that to MOTU/Mentors/Discussion
* imbrandon would love to sit in on some motu-school classes too when they get going 
<raphink> :)
<imbrandon> oh btw raphink your a revu hacker / admin right ?
<raphink> I'd be happy to give a talk if you need me some time dholbach :)
<raphink> yes imbrandon
<dholbach> raphink: excelltn
<raphink> mooooh bad me, I can't edit a wiki page properly
<raphink> lol
<imbrandon> raphink, i got a question, i have the same key for two email address and one i login with ( brandon@imbrandon.com and one i sign packages with imbrandon@kubuntu.org ) but i cant make comments on packages i upload on revu ;(
<imbrandon> know a solution ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: ah yes, that
<sivang> raphink: are we talking about virtual or physical school here? ;)
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: which email do you use the sign the packages with?  and in the changelogs?
<raphink> virtual sivang, unless you have a place for us to teach at, and students to move there ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, imbrandon@kubuntu.org
<sivang> raphink: I wish :) I say we choose the french riviera !
<raphink> imbrandon: your login is and will be the one you used the first time you uploaded
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: okay, use that email to sign into revu with, and use the recover password to get the p/w for it
<raphink> you can't use the kubuntu.org email to log in
<Hobbsee> seeing as it's different to the original one
<dholbach> i added wiki.ubuntu.com/EasierMotuing/Discussion to see where we stand or discuss problems
<Hobbsee> raphink: you cant?
<imbrandon> raphink, when i started uploading i used brandon@imbrandon.com but not anylonger ;(
<raphink> Hobbsee: no, the account is created only once, with the first add you use, iirc
<Hobbsee> raphink: you can sign in with any of the email addresses added to your key.
<Hobbsee> as long as the key has been uploaded
<imbrandon> raphink, but its the same gpg key for both
<imbrandon> right
<raphink> ah ok
<raphink> :s
<imbrandon> see what i mean
<Hobbsee> oh good, i wont have to have an argument with you then raphink :P
<raphink> I still log in with the email add I first used
<imbrandon> i have 2 email addresses with my gpg key, one i used to upload long ago and that my account now i use @kubuntu.org to upload with the same gpg key )
<raphink> didnt even try to log in with my ubuntu.com add
<raphink> btw, who gives kubuntu.org addresses ?
<raphink> I don't remember to have one :s
<StevenK> The Kubuntu CC?
<raphink> hmm :)
<imbrandon> kubuntu community council ;')
<imbrandon> you just need to be on the kubuntu-members on LP then LP id@kubuntu.ortg  works
* StevenK jumps on Hobbsee.
* Hobbsee stomps StevenK 
<StevenK> That takes talent, when I'm on top of you.
<Hobbsee> raphink: we dont give them out, per se - i think riddell does
<imbrandon> lol
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i have many talents :P
<seaLne> anyone know anything about stack protection in gcc 4.1?
* Hobbsee can poke hard, too.
<raphink> imbrandon: so that means I do have a @kubuntu.org add, and just don't know it yet ;)
* Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee 
<Mithrandir> (and then runs away)
<StevenK> My rib cage can attest to that.
<imbrandon> raphink, if your a member of kubuntu-members on LP then lp_id@kubuntu.org will automaticly forward to your primary LP email
<raphink> imbrandon: I'm part of the kubuntu cc, so I better be part of the gruop
<imbrandon> hehehe
<StevenK> Hah
<seaLne> yeah i got round to testing mine yesterday :)
* Hobbsee stomps on Mithrandir's foot, and tickles him in return
<Hobbsee> StevenK: hehe!
<Hobbsee> raphink: hehe
<raphink> ah well the email works :) good to know :)
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: too late.
<imbrandon> raphink, yea i think i'm the only person in the world that actualy uses his @kubuntu.org email ;)
* Hobbsee uses it
<imbrandon> hehe well Hobbsee too ;)
* Hobbsee signs with @ubuntu.com though
<raphink> I might begin to use it now :)
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, i dont have @ubuntu.com ;(
<raphink> I mostly use my ubuntu.com add though
<StevenK> I don't use my @u.c address.
* Hobbsee got both :)
<StevenK> I do use it for signing.
<raphink> imbrandon: how come? you should have one if you're a member
<seaLne> can you just add extra addresses to your gpg key or are they not truested?
<imbrandon> heh LP says i'm indirectly a member of ubuntu-members becouse of kubuntu-membership but @ubuntu.com dont work for me
<imbrandon> ;(
<StevenK> seaLne: You can.
<seaLne> imbrandon: works for me
<imbrandon> seaLne, you can add as many as you like
<raphink> imbrandon: @ubuntu.com addressees are created manually iirc
<StevenK> raphink: They so aren't.
<imbrandon> raphink, ahh whom do i poke ?
<raphink> StevenK: not anymore you mean?
<seaLne> they should work the same as k.o
<raphink> ah ok :)
<raphink> except for indirect members it seems
<StevenK> They weren't when I became a member.
<imbrandon> yea i think members of ubuntumembers on LP get @ubuntu.com
<raphink> ok
<imbrandon> but see i got membership through kcc not cc so i think my @ubuntu stuff got skipped ;)
<zakame> hi all
* imbrandon isnt sure how all that works
<imbrandon> heya zakame
<zakame> heya imbrandon !
<seaLne> imbrandon: you've tried and it dosen't work?
<zakame> hmm merges.ubuntu.com down?
<StevenK> I was wondering if there was someone who is a kubuntu member, and not a ubuntu member.
<imbrandon> seaLne, yea a long time ago, lemme try again real fast , well infact seaLne got a sec, shoot a mail to imbrandon@ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> StevenK, me technicly but not supose to be
<StevenK> zakame: elmo seems to be having fun with chinstrap and LP machines, so merges.u.c may also be affected.
<seaLne> imbrandon: sent
<zakame> StevenK: ah, well, lemme just deal with syncs then :)
<sivang> StevenK: what sort of fun? :)
<imbrandon> StevenK, i got membership from kcc but never got added to the ubuntumembers on LP only kubuntu-members but it says i'm indirectly a member of ubuntumember blah blah blah
<imbrandon> ok seaLne checking
<imbrandon> w00t seaLne guess it does work i got it ;) lol
<imbrandon> guess when i checked long ago it must have just gotten filtered out
<seaLne> hmm now my gpg key thinks @ubuntu.com is the primary any idea how to change it?
<imbrandon> seaLne, yea
<imbrandon> one sec lemme check how i did it
<imbrandon> gpg --edit-key <keyid>
<imbrandon> then ...
<imbrandon> type the number of the
<imbrandon> one you want primary
<imbrandon> like 1 or 2
<imbrandon> hit <enter> then type "primary" and <enter>
<imbrandon> should change it
<imbrandon> probbly wanna change the trust to ultimate on your own key too if it isnt
* dholbach renames MOTU/UVFStatus to MOTU/Processes/UVF
<imbrandon> dholbach, whats ExpandingUniverse ?
<imbrandon> the wiki link is dead
<dholbach> imbrandon: drop it then, it was a spec for breezy
<imbrandon> One of our release goals for EdgyEft is ExpandingUniverse and as a part of this, import all the good stuff from [WWW]  http://apt-get.org
<imbrandon> ^^
<dholbach> oh well
<imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Tasks/AptGetOrg
<dholbach> I'll 'unlink' it then :)
<tseng> :/ apt-get.org
<dholbach> yeah, thanks for telling me
<imbrandon> np , i was just looking at it and like huh?
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i got there from /MOTU/Tasks
<seaLne> dholbach: do you happen to know anything about stack protection in the new gcc? its causing problems for afflib that i'm trying to package
<dholbach> ye thanks
<dholbach> seaLne: not at all - you might want to ask doko
<dholbach> imbrandon: um
<dholbach> imbrandon: you dropped the complete page? :)
<seaLne> dholbach: ta
<dholbach> *whine*
<imbrandon> no
<dholbach> uh hum
<imbrandon> i dident touch it,
<dholbach> ah... typo
<imbrandon> i just went and it wasent there
<dholbach> nevermind :)
<imbrandon> hehe
* imbrandon got scared LOL
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<imbrandon> moins Toadstool
<zakame> heya Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey imbrandon, zakame
<seaLne> doko: i'm having some problems with a package due to stack protection in gcc are you able to help?
<doko> seaLne: please either disable it, or ask pitti on #ubuntu-devel
<seaLne> doko: ok
<pitti> hi
<pitti> seaLne: you had a problem with SSP?
* dholbach hugs pitti :)
* pitti hugs dholbach 
<seaLne> pitti: yes http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2670 aimage fails and stracing shows it is due to SSP and afident aswell
<pitti> seaLne: fails during build or runtime?
* pitti builds afflib source
<seaLne> pitti: afident: http://pastebin.ca/85944 aimage: http://pastebin.ca/85945
<seaLne> pitti: runtime
<pitti> seaLne: erk, build-dep on emacs21? why is this necessary?
<StevenK> Ow.
<seaLne> tags, i was going to look at that
<StevenK> That's as bad as webdvd, which Build-Depends on mozilla-browser.
<pitti> seaLne: please drop emacs21 and linux-headers-2.6, it works fine without
<seaLne> ok
<pitti> seaLne: userspace apps must not rely on particular kernel headers
<dholbach> StevenK: there's quite a lot build-depending on firefox-dev, etc (which pulls in firefox as well) :)
<seaLne> you get an error about etags without emacs tho
<StevenK> seaLne: ctags?
<pitti> $ grep etags afflib_1.6.28-0ubuntu1_amd64.build
<pitti> $
<StevenK> Why the hell do you need etags to build...
<pitti> seaLne: hm, I don't
<seaLne> sorry i can't quite remember
<seaLne> i'll rebuild without those
<StevenK> Perhaps etags is required at run-time, and not build-time?
<pitti> $ /usr/bin/afident --help
<pitti> Device parameters:
<pitti> System Info:
<pitti> MAC Addresses:
<pitti> 00:06:4F:06:80:7C
<pitti>                  SW*
<pitti> 00:0F:EA:EA:28:B0
<pitti>                  SW*
<pitti> seaLne: ^ this looks like a buffer overflow
<pitti> seaLne: or improper termination
<StevenK> SSP to the rescue again!
<seaLne> ok so it is actually a problem, thats "good" i suppose :)
<pitti> seaLne: I'm on amd64, and due to different memory layout I apparently don't get a corrupted stack
<pitti> seaLne: yes :)
<pitti> $ find -name afident
<pitti> ./debian/afflib/usr/bin/afident
<pitti> seaLne: hm, where is the source for that?
<ajmitch> hi pitti
<seaLne> pitti: afident is renamed from ident
<pitti> seaLne: ok, happy debugging then :)
<seaLne> pitti: thanks
<pitti> seaLne: you're welcome :)
<pitti> moin ajmitch
<siretart> !packaging
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<siretart> cool :)
<siretart> !Seveas++
<ubotu> I know nothing about Seveas++ - try searching bots.ubuntulinux.nl, help.ubuntu.com and wiki.ubuntu.com
<ajmitch> hehe
<siretart> ;)
<ajmitch> !REVU
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<ajmitch> great
* StevenK wonders if his wireless if he moves further away from the AP.
<StevenK> Er, s/wireless/wireless will drop out/
<seaLne> err if you move far enough it will :)
<StevenK> Shush. :-)
* Seveas pushes stevenk a bit further
* StevenK trips over.
<StevenK> Oof.
<ajmitch> now the dog will get you
* StevenK uses the book he is reading to fend it off.
<ajmitch> amazing how much better wireless works here
<ajmitch> I wonder if it was your AP, my card, or the combination of both
<StevenK> I think my AP was somewhat to blame.
<StevenK> It was still shocking the following day until I got the shits entirely, turned it off for 10 minutes and then plugged it back in again.
<ajmitch> I had similar with a d-link in canberra
<Whoopie> Hi all! Where can I find a guide for the package version scheme? Is it right that if a package exists on ubuntu (but not on debian), its version is foo-1.0-0ubuntu1. Or is it foo-1.0-1ubuntu1?
<dholbach> 0ubuntu1 is right
<imbrandon> -0ubuntu1 if its not in debian , and the packaging guide is at help.ubuntu.com
<dholbach> -1ubuntu1 means there was a -1 in debian and we did changes to it
<imbrandon> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
<imbrandon> ^^ there ;)
<dholbach> seems like a paragraph about version numbers would be in order
<imbrandon> probably not a bad idea if its not there alreadt
<imbrandon> already*
<dholbach> should we add that to MOTU/Documentation/TODO or to MOTU/FAQ or just add it to ubotu?
<imbrandon> i would add it to TODO to be added to the package guild later ( and maybe faq also )
<imbrandon> then ubotu can point to those
<imbrandon> guide*
<dholbach> ok, who does it? ;)
<imbrandon> the bot?
* dholbach adds it to wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation/TODO
<imbrandon> ahh , i can ;)
<dholbach> hum
<imbrandon> then i need to go get ready for court ( grumbles about having to goto court today )
<dholbach> MOTU/Documentation/Todo doesn't look like a todo page
<tseng> < elmo> LP is going down in 13 minutes, ETD is 10 mins
<Whoopie> dholbach, imbrandon: thanks!
<tseng> fyi
<imbrandon> thanks tseng
<imbrandon> hrm your right dholbach
<imbrandon> looks kinda out of date too
<imbrandon> ugh the MOTU wiki , is a mess, I guess I know what i'll be doing when i get home from court and the next few days ;)
* dholbach high-fives imbrandon!
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> ubotu, versioning is <reply> Ubuntu and Debian have slightly different package versioning schemes http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html#id2528873
<imbrandon> !versioning
<ubotu> I know nothing about versioning - try searching bots.ubuntulinux.nl, help.ubuntu.com and wiki.ubuntu.com
<imbrandon> ubotu versioning is <reply> Ubuntu and Debian have slightly different package versioning schemes http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html#id2528873
<imbrandon> ugh
* imbrandon pokes Seveas
<imbrandon> %whoami
<ubotu> imbrandon
<siretart> imbrandon: you need to register at ubotu, see wiki/ubuntu-motu mailing list
<imbrandon> %editors
<ubotu> Seveas, gnomefreak, apokryphos, ompaul, thoreauputic, Hobbsee, Amaranth, bimberi, nalioth, Madpilot, LjL, Riddell, imbrandon, uniq
<imbrandon> ^^ nope it sees me
<imbrandon> hrm
<siretart> are you athenticated?
<Seveas> imbrandon: %whoami
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> %whoami
<ubotu> imbrandon
<Seveas> did you get an error message?
<imbrandon> nope
<Seveas> odd
<Seveas> ahh
<Seveas> adding works only with !, not with nickname
<imbrandon> ahh doh
<Seveas> only displaying worls with nickname
<imbrandon> !versioning is <reply> Ubuntu and Debian have slightly different package versioning schemes see for an explination http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html#id2528873
<ubotu> I'll remember that
<imbrandon> there we go
<StevenK> What is ubotu?
<StevenK> Blootbot?
<Seveas> ubotu, tell StevenK about yourself
<Seveas> StevenK, supybot
<imbrandon> StevenK, a bot with factoids to help with FAQ's
<imbrandon> its used in #ubuntu and #kubuntu alot and now here for motu hopefulls
<StevenK> imbrandon: I figured that part out for myself. :-)
<imbrandon> heheh
<imbrandon> !packageversions is <alias> versioning
<ubotu> I'll remember that
<imbrandon> !packageversions
<ubotu> Ubuntu and Debian have slightly different package versioning schemes see for an explination http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html#id2528873
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> there we go , all fixed up
<Seveas> gotta love <alias>'es
<StevenK> I note ubotu didn't tell me anything.
<Ubugtu> ubotu, tell Seveas about yourself
<Seveas> hmm, bug
<imbrandon> !bot > StevenK
<StevenK> That worked
<imbrandon> Seveas, shouldent it have messaged me telling me it told him ?
<Hobbsee> Seveas: explination ?
<StevenK> It's the new English.
<Seveas> imbrandon, no - that becomes annoying very quickly
<imbrandon> Seveas, true , i thought that was the old behavure
<imbrandon> gah anyhow i got to get a shower and such, bbiab after court
<imbrandon> see ya Seveas StevenK Hobbsee dholbach and everyone ;)
<dholbach> bye imbrandon
<StevenK> Seveas: s/explination/explanation/
<Hobbsee> bye imbrandon
<Hobbsee> hah
<imbrandon> !no versioning is Ubuntu and Debian have slightly different package versioning schemes see for an explanation http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-scratch.html#id2528873
<ubotu> I'll remember that
<imbrandon> ;) oops
<Seveas> !versioning =~ s/^/<reply> /
<ubotu> I'll remember that
<Seveas> btw: bug solved
<Hobbsee> Seveas: which bug?
<Seveas> in ubotu
<Seveas> "ubotu, tell foo about bar" was failing
<Hobbsee> ah
<Seveas> just shows that the !foo > bar syntax is far more popular 
<Seveas> because it must have been broken for days 
<StevenK> ubotu: tell me about yourself
<StevenK> Hah!
<Hobbsee> hehe
<seaLne> what do i need to do to compile a program with debuggung symbols?
<Toadstool> seaLne: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebuggingProgramCrash
<seaLne> ah, thanks
<seaLne> i was looking at gcc flags but i guess i could try it that way
<seaLne> that didn't make gdb anymore informative just i didn't get any messages about debugging symbols missing
<Riddell> any gnome users here?
<ogra> nope, we all switched to icewm :)
<Hobbsee> more like asking if anyone's actually awake in here
<Riddell> I need a screenshot of the help meu from nautilus
<ogra> would german suffice ?
<Riddell> ogra: sadly no
<fowlduck> Riddell: get a liveCD
<StevenK> Riddell: If I can figure how to get Gnome to take a fragging screenshot with a menu down, it's yours.
<fowlduck> Riddell: ex: gentoo, ubuntu, kororaa
<ogra> fowlduck, i'm pretty sure he needs the ubuntu specific help menu ;)
<fowlduck> oh right, we're in an ubuntu channel
* StevenK has also lost the Take Screenshot menu item in Gimp
<Riddell> gnome-screenshot --delay 4
<StevenK> Done
<StevenK> Riddell: http://wedontsleep.org/~steven/Screenshot.jpg
<Riddell> The requested URL /~steven/Screenshot.jpg was not found on this server.
* StevenK should learn to read
<StevenK> Riddell: .png, sorry
<dholbach> Riddell: i wrote you an url in the query ;)
<Riddell> dholbach: got that thanks, but needed it in English too
<Riddell> interestingly those launchpad menu options don't follow the HIG
<dholbach> ahhh ok
<havoc> yay, new bitlbee in edgy
<jsgotangco> thats nice
<havoc> yeah, now I just need to figure out how to pin edgy in dapper
<_ion> I'd just use the source packages.
<havoc> eh, I'm lazy though ;)
<dooglus> StevenK: in a terminal: "sleep 3; import -window root file.png", then open the menu, and wait 3 seconds.
<tseng> sleep 5 && gnome-screenshot
<tseng> :))
<Hobbsee> dooglus: he went to bed
<dooglus> Hobbsee: I'm sorry, I didn't realise this was #ubuntu-motu
<dooglus> Hobbsee: irssi truncated the channel name to #ubuntu
<Hobbsee> dooglus: not a problem, but i'm just saying that StevenK went to bed a while ago, so wont see your message for a while :P
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: Morning.  Or in your case probably late afternoon there :)
<Hobbsee> hey Hawkwind
<Hobbsee> @time sydney
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: July 13 2006, 01:14:51
<Hobbsee> it really is morning
<Hawkwind> Ohhhh
<Hawkwind> You're further into my future than I realized
<Hawkwind> @time houston
<Hawkwind> @time chicago
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Chicago: July 12 2006, 10:16:52
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Toadstool> @time san diego
<Toadstool> tss :p
<imbrandon> dholbach, you got another half sec ?
<dholbach> yep
<imbrandon> is there any way you can check for my emails on the -motu mailing list , i'm getting doubles and it said your the admin ( all the onther lists.ubuntu.com ML i only get one )
<imbrandon> brandon@imbrandon.com & imbrandon@kubuntu.org <--- the latter should be the only one subscribed
<imbrandon> only thing i can think of is i'm subscibed twice
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: unsubscribe one?
<imbrandon> um if i knew that they was both subscibed LOL, i dont wanna STOP getting the ML ;)
<imbrandon> i guess i could try it and wait to see if any mail hits it ;)
<imbrandon> done, now we'll see if something comes accross -motu ;)
<Gloubiboulga> welcome jdmpike ;)
<jdmpike> when will gnucash-2.0.0 be added to the repos?
<jdmpike> hehe
<jdmpike> it is out and I want it
<jdmpike> I had build problems building it though
<jdmpike> I have been throwing money at the gnucash devs for the 2.0 release and now it is here
<imbrandon> zOMG i want a PONY too ;) just kidding, probbly when someone gets time to package it for edgy , but kinda pointless since x-window-system-core is broke atm in edgy ;)
<hub> is it me, or there is no UI in KUbuntu to enable universe
<imbrandon> hub, adept kinda has a sources.list editor
<hub> kinda, I haven't found it
<jdmpike> I *REALLY* want it for my favorite distro
<hub> I'm going to the other channel
<imbrandon> jdmpike, patients
<hub> I barely use UI installer, but...
<jdmpike> imbrandon, I hear yeah - I am just totally excited
<imbrandon> jdmpike, well lets get things like X working before gnucash ;)
<imbrandon> wb Seveas
<jdmpike> imbrandon, my fiance didn't like the old version because it looked "old" so she wouldn't use it
<jdmpike> do the motu only manage packages for edgy?
<jdmpike> should I just force the debian people to get it in their repos?
<imbrandon> we manage the universe ( IE motu == masters of the univers ) ;)
<jdmpike> hehe
<jdmpike> yeah - totally... motu, I want to build you guys a compile farm
<imbrandon> build me a ppc compile farm an i will be happy ;) j/k
<lionelp> jdmpike: gnucash 2 is already in Debian SID
<lionelp> so it should arrive in edgy realy soon
<imbrandon> jdmpike, if its in SID it will be in edgy soonish
<jdmpike> is there a program like that? so you can donate unused cpu cycles to building code?
<imbrandon> jdmpike, not afaik but thats a neat idea
<jdmpike> hmmm - I don't know if it would help that much, but I know there are a *LOT* of unused cycles out there...
<Gloubiboulga> lionelp, do you want to check if we could sync gnucash from debian?
<lionelp> I can dot it yes :)
<Gloubiboulga> cool :)
<jdmpike> so what does the process look like, a package goes in to edgy, then to dapper? Is there documentation about how I can help?
<Hobbsee> jdmpike: usually it doesnt go into dapper
<jdmpike> I haven't really found my niche about how I can contribute back to the software I love so much
<lionelp> Gloubiboulga, jdmpike: in fact, it is already in edgy : https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnucash/2.0.0-1
<lionelp> but it fails to build due to a python problem
<Hobbsee> dholbach: a chance to show your MOTU guide thing out?  ;P
<Hobbsee> s/show/implement && s/guide/spec
<jdmpike> hmm - so you are saying that gnucash 2.0 won't be released for dapper?
<jdmpike> that can't be right the LTS means that people will be running it for years
<lionelp> jdmpike: yes, but the principe of the release is that once it is released, you do not change everything :)
<Gloubiboulga> lionelp, oh nice, thanks for checking :)
<jdmpike> are you people running edgy now?
<Toadstool> jdmpike: only in a chroot for the moment :)
<seaLne> how in general do people here write manpages for commnads that don't have them?
<Hobbsee> seaLne: docbook2man?
<Gloubiboulga> jdmpike, I run edgy but I spent half the day rebuildind Xfce packages, not very productive ;)
<seaLne> Hobbsee: and what do you put in them?
<Hobbsee> seaLne: no idea, i try to avoid documenation like the plage
<Hobbsee> there's also docbook2html
<nixternal> haha
<Hobbsee> i think
<nixternal> there is docbook2whatever you want now a days it seems, you are correct though Hobbsee with the docbook2html
<Hobbsee> heh
<seaLne> Toadstool: what was wrong with the version of synce-kde that i had uploaded to revu 6 weeks ago?
<Toadstool> seaLne: just forgot to add the previous ubuntu changelog entries
<Toadstool> I had no idea you had uploaded a synce-kde merge to REVU though
<Toadstool> sorry
<Toadstool> seaLne: http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=2376&upid2=2689 for the diff
<seaLne> yeah i wasn't sure at that point how changelog were supposed to be done
<Toadstool> seaLne: anyway if you want to merge packages take a look at http://merges.ubuntu.com/
<seaLne> reminds me to sort the changelog of kmobiletools
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Yagisan> bddebian !
<bddebian> Heya Yagisan
<bddebian> Yagisan: Your a security guy aren't you?
<Yagisan> bddebian: yes I am
<Yagisan> what's wrong ?
<Yagisan> (and is it billable >:) )
<bddebian> I have some questions about PKI
<Yagisan> ah
<Yagisan> shoot, and I'll answer as best I can
* Yagisan is more an implementer then designer 
<bddebian> Can I do any type of private->private key encryption?  I want an encrypted file that only someone with a specific key can unencrypt (i.e. not a public key)
<Yagisan> bddebian: encrypt with the targets public key, or use a symmetric cypher.
<Yagisan> bddebian: eg say you gpg encrypt an email
<Yagisan> you use your targets public key to encrypt it, so only your targets private key can unlock it
<bddebian> I like it
* Yagisan has some nice books on PKI. Fascinating stuff
<bddebian> Oh yeah it's awesome, I'm just too stupid :-)
<bddebian> Thanks btw
<Yagisan> bddebian: anytime
<bddebian> I get so much love in -devel ;-P
<FunnyLookinHat> Anyone here working on MythTV packages in the repos?
<FunnyLookinHat> ping me if you are please  : )
<Yagisan> FunnyLookinHat: a long time ago, it was mdz's, but now, I don't think anyone in particular looks after it
<FunnyLookinHat> Yagisan, Ok...  that would explain why it's so out of date.  I'd like to undertake updating it to the most recent version and getting packages in the repos updated.
<FunnyLookinHat> At least for Edgy.
<FunnyLookinHat> Yagisan, should I just pursue the regular process for joining MOTU and then go from there?
<Yagisan> FunnyLookinHat: well, I've yet to actually go for MOTU myself
<Yagisan> FunnyLookinHat: is it newer in Debian ?
<Yagisan> FunnyLookinHat: if so, IIRC the correct procedure is to file a bug requesting a sync in lp (I'm sure crimsun or someone else will correct me if I'm wrong)
<FunnyLookinHat> Yagisan, good question.  I should check the debian repos to see what they have.  From what I understand Ubuntu packaged it's own thing... but all the support and doc on wiki is very sketchy at this point
<FunnyLookinHat> Yagisan, yea I filed a bug on the package for an update to start at least
<Yagisan> FunnyLookinHat: hmm, debian doesn't have it.
<FunnyLookinHat> Yeah, looks like I'll have to compile/package it myself.  but I don't mind at all!  been looking for an excuse to get into ubuntu devel for a while
<FunnyLookinHat> I know there are custom .deb packages out there somewhere
<Yagisan> FunnyLookinHat: try contacting the maintainer listed for the package
<Yagisan> see if there are plans to update, and offer to help
<FunnyLookinHat> Hmm.  Where would I find that (didn't see one on launchpad at first glance)
<FunnyLookinHat> ooh yea
<LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: have you looked on REVU?
<FunnyLookinHat> Matt Zimmerman
<FunnyLookinHat> LaserJock, REVU?
<LaserJock> FunnyLookinHat: revu.tauware.de
<FunnyLookinHat> Lol
<FunnyLookinHat> the most recent message on there for mythtv "And as a final word: there is a new version of mythtv, which we really should get into multiverse for edgy."
<FunnyLookinHat> Exactly what I'm looking to do.  And mdz is still listed at the maintainer of it.  Maybe I should drop him an email
<LaserJock> k
<Yagisan> FunnyLookinHat: good idea. he is in -devel, but I understand he's a busy guy
<LaserJock> that's an understatment ;-)
<FunnyLookinHat> ya, hahaha.  He is VERY busy from what I've heard of him   : )
<FunnyLookinHat> I have to go for a bit, but I'll get back to him.
<FunnyLookinHat> Thanks for all the help Yagisan and LaserJock !
<LaserJock> you should just ask him real quick if he minds if you update the package
<LaserJock> I doubt he will
<FunnyLookinHat> ok sweet
<Yagisan> FunnyLookinHat: your welcome. Most people are happy for co-maintainers (I'd like some for my not-yet-in-ubuntu packages)
<LaserJock> well, Ubuntu is nice that way, nobody "owns" a package
<LaserJock> so you can spread the maintanence joy around ;-)
<Yagisan> once is passes license muster of course
<Yagisan> there is a disadvantage though. sometimes things get no love
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> that's why we need lots and lots of people
<LaserJock> so we can rule the UNIVERSE, mwuahahahaha!
<Yagisan> LaserJock: that's part of the reason I only pay attention to the apps I use often.
<LaserJock> and that's why I'm trying to keep up with 450 source packages :-)
* bddebian hides
<LaserJock> luckily either they aren't used very much or scientists are bad bug reports because it isn't terribly overwhelming
<LaserJock> enough to keep me busy, no doubt, but managable with the help of a certian diety-like dev ;-)
<Yagisan> LaserJock: be happy I don't do that many apps. otherwise it would be the Efft Edgy release ;) (I break more code then I fix it seems)
<LaserJock> haha, I just let bddebian do the breaking ;-)
<bddebian> heh
<LaserJock> j/k bddebian, you know we love  you
* bddebian hugs LaserJock
<LaserJock> awwwww, thanks dad ;-)
* sivang takes bddebian and LaserJock and turns them into con shaped molecules and fires them up in 3D space :-D
<sivang> LaserJock: that scence you described just don't get out of my head since we talked about :)
<sivang> LaserJock: I keep trying to imimagine how that looks
<LaserJock> sivang: just a sec
<Yagisan> hmm. debian has been compromised again :(
<zul> hmm?
<zul> Yagisan: what happened?
<Yagisan> zul: on d-d-a elmo sent a message staing that someone broke into gluck.debian.org
<stratus> calm down, there's no "debian compromise"
<stratus> yes, it was gluck
<stratus> ddtp, lintian, people, popcon and some other stuff
<LaserJock> sivang: grab http://www.chem.unr.edu/~mantha/2063.pdf real quick
<stratus> the archive is ok
* Yagisan is calm. It's a shame someone thinks it's cool to do that
<zul> it was bddebian! ;)
<stratus> the last time it was a lame with a 0day leaked exploit that tried to look like the cool thing
<sivang> LaserJock: wow, you're quite published :-)
<LaserJock> not me
<LaserJock> that's my predeccesor
<sivang> LaserJock: ah, I see
<sivang> LaserJock: I hope I will be able to decipher 30% of the words on this text
<sivang> LaserJock: :)
<LaserJock> sivang: just look at the pictures/captions
<LaserJock> sivang: also try http://www.chem.unr.edu/~mantha/360-Rotate-slow-loop.mov
<LaserJock> sivang: that's a movie of the molecule I'll be working on, the motor
<LaserJock> just don't go publishing it anywhere, my boss will have my hide if our competitors get ahold of it ;-)
<sivang> LaserJock: oh crap, you've just pasted it in a public channel ;-)
<LaserJock> and I'll be removing the files as soon as you have them ;-)
<sivang> already have
<sivang> go ahead
<LaserJock> k
<slomo_> i have it too now ;P
<LaserJock> good
<LaserJock> as long as it's just you CS geeks
<sivang> hehe
<sivang> slomo_: hi!
* sivang hugs slomo_ 
<sivang> slomo_: how wsa the test??
<slomo_> hi sivang :) the test was much easier than i expected... i could've spent all the time learning more useful ;)
<sivang> aha
<sivang> you should do more merges instead :p
<slomo_> no, not today... today i'll do some coding again :)
<sivang> slomo_: oh cool, what are you coding?
<slomo_> "fixing" or better rewriting from scratch of 3 gstreamer plugins... wavpackdec, wavpackparse and wavpackenc
<sivang> slomo_: oh man, this is some hard core coding :)
<sivang> slomo_: an you have to know the formulas for wavepack or is it mostly raw sampleing with some compression on top?
<sivang> slomo_: I am thinking how to make the home user bakcup daemon know how much time passed sinc ehte last backup
<slomo_> no, i'm only using libwavpack for everything... would be insane to reimplement it when there already is a nice implemention from which i know the author good and helping him on defining a nice API :) so it's not that hard as it probably sounds first
<slomo_> but i have to do some fiddling with raw samples nonetheless unfortunately :/
<sivang> slomo_: as testing ?
<slomo_> sivang: making it a session daemon... hmm, another daemon eating ram although it does nothing most of the time ;) make it a cron job or something...
<slomo_> "as testing"?
<sivang> 20:33 < slomo_> but i have to do some fiddling with raw samples nonetheless unfortunately :/
<sivang> ^^ for testing?
<sivang> slomo_: right, not a daemon, I meant a cronjob that will fire up a script that will check how much time passed
<slomo_> oh... no, for getting the samples to a format that libwavpack likes and getting it into raw samples again that gstreamer likes ;) wasn't that easy to make it work on ppc and x86. but most of the work is in the actual behaviour of the plugins
<slomo_> that sounds saner again :) but it must be a system cronjob, no?
* havoc assumes everyone's already heard about gluck.debian.org
<havoc> probably doesn't affect ubuntu though
<sivang> slomo_: I'd like to make it per user
<sivang> slomo_: as the specification use cases show :)
<LaserJock> havoc: what did it effect in Debian?
<slomo_> sivang: how? writing a ~/.crontab for the user?
<sivang> slomo_: not going to deal with system backup for now, only for edgy+1
<slomo_> LaserJock: <stratus> ddtp, lintian, people, popcon and some other stuff
<havoc> LaserJock: unknown thus far: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/07/msg00003.html
<havoc> well, little known
<havoc> or little reported
<stratus> there's nothing wrong in the elmo message
<stratus> gluck hosts that services
<stratus> the archive is ok
<havoc> and I sincerely hope it stays that way
<sivang> slomo_: hmm, godo point. Any other ideas?
<sivang> slomo_: nothing I could cling into that's already doing checkups?
<slomo_> sivang: no... but the ~/.crontab could work imho
<sivang> slomo_: maybe I will make the huabckup create it, and not install it through packaging.
<sivang> slomo_: actually this sounds the best way to do it anyways
<slomo_> you must not do anything with the users home directory through packaging anyway :P
<sivang> slomo_: right, so I would just have HUB check if that file exists and if not create it and tell user (you have never done a backup before)
<hub> me?
<sivang> hub: oh sorry
<sivang> slomo_: s/hub/hubackup/
<pygi> sivang, you gonna respond perhaps? ^_^
<chantra> hi, is siretart or ajmitch or raphink here?
<chantra> I've uploaded subtitleeditor_0.8.1-1ubuntu0 on revu, but it doesn't seems to have been updated
<raphink> well I seem to be
<raphink> let's see
<chantra> cheers raphink
<raphink> hi chantra
<raphink> chantra: did you add yourself to the ubuntu-universe-contributors group on LP?
<chantra> ? nope, I don't think so, I validated my gpg key, that's all
<chantra> what is LP by the way :s
<raphink> launchpad
<chantra> no, I simply registered to launchpad
<raphink> we are migrating REVU to LP progressively
<raphink> and now you have to join https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-universe-contributors
<raphink> in order to upload to REVU
<raphink> I sent an email about that to the motu ML
<raphink> some time ago
<raphink> so just join the team
<raphink> tell me when you have done it
<raphink> and I'll put your package in the incoming queue again
<raphink> I'll brb
<chantra> okie cheers
* chantra hasn't properly filtered is motu mail yet .... it is a big mess :)
<chantra> raphink: okie, I've just joined, should I re upload the package
<chantra> ?
<FunnyLookinHat> poor raphink seems to have connection issues  : (
<raphink> no chantra
<raphink> FunnyLookinHat: no I did say I was to come back in a few minutes ;)
<FunnyLookinHat> oh yea.... guess I'm not reading well today
<raphink> wait a few minutes chantra I have to update the keyring
<chantra> okie
<chantra> my key was accepted though
<raphink> sure
<raphink> just wait a bit
<FunnyLookinHat> I still have to get my key and everything setup so I can joun the team....   ^_^
<chantra> raphink: , when I uploaded, I was able to upload
<crimsun> I /love/ feature requests that FTBFS
<chantra> so I guess my key was accepted
<crimsun> love with brick+sharp_pointy_stick
<FunnyLookinHat> crimsun, FTBFS?  that's a new one for me....
<FunnyLookinHat> I assume it's a lot of cursing, haha
<crimsun> install bsdgames, then ``wtf ftbfs''
<raphink> yes I know chantra but this has changed and this is why I sent the email
<raphink> chantra: now let's wait 5 minutes. If all goes well your package should be there
<FunnyLookinHat> crimsun, it doens't know what it means!
* chantra is going to dig is emails :p
<phanatic> evening
<chantra> raphink: okie, cheers
<raphink> chantra: you have your gpg key on LP right?
<crimsun> FunnyLookinHat: it means "failed to build from source"
<FunnyLookinHat> Ahhh ok.
<FunnyLookinHat> I hate those as well...  such as all the people wanting akamaru (that os x gnome bar thingy)
<chantra> raphink: currently doing it
<raphink> chantra: ah ... then I'll have to run the update keyring again
<raphink> chantra: tell me when your key is added to LP
<chantra> sorry raphink , just can't find your mail in all those motu mails :s
<raphink> I sent it on the 30th of june
<crimsun> does someone have a fast ia32 edgy pbuilder?
<crimsun> [that I could abuse for ~30 mins] 
<raphink> crimsun: tiber has one
<crimsun> (right, but I don't have ssh access [that I know of] )
<pygi> raphink, !!!
<raphink> hi pygi
<pygi> hi raphink :)
<chantra> raphink: okie, I validated my key
<raphink> good
<raphink> give me some time now
<chantra> okie dokie
<chantra> by the way, I didn't find your mail, filtering your nick, date..., just updates,comments and spams
<LaserJock> 6/30/06 is when I have his email
<LaserJock> chantra: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-June/000723.html
<chantra> cheers LaserJock
<chantra> I guess I'm not in this ist, will register after lunch
<chantra> I'l just in motu-reviewer :s
<LaserJock> ah
<chantra> okie raphink subtitleeditor made is way up. Tks for the help
<raphink> you're welcome :)
* chantra just need to subscrie to ubuntu-motu mailing list :)
<raphink> yes I guess chantra :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-07-13
<bddebian> Catch you later gang
<LaserJock> cya bddebian
<crimsun> mm I suck, forgot to adjust the e-mail address
<LaserJock> crimsun: on an upload?
<crimsun> yes, vlc.
<LaserJock> wow, I can't believe it's UVF already
<LaserJock> seems like just yesterday the edgy repos opened
<raphink> yes indeed
<raphink> edgy ;)
<LaserJock> how's kubuntu doing? does the UVF apply as well to it?
<chantra> nity
<ajmitch> morning
<havoc> morning
<LaserJock> hi ajmitch!
<sladen> Laser_away: yup, UVF is for the archive
<crimsun> for everyone not following in -devel, universe UVF is in late September, so we still have a bit of time.
<zul> hi
<crimsun> 'lo zul
<zul> hey crimsun how goes the battle?
<crimsun> definitely battling
<crimsun> yourself?
<zul> same here
<zul> and reading email
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Hawkwind> Hey there bddebian
<bddebian> Hello Hawkwind
<ajmitch> hi
<bddebian> Heya ajmitch, what's happening?
<ajmitch> stuff
<bddebian> Alrighty then :)
<Hobbsee> morning all
<Amaranth> what does it mean when dh_install gives cp: cannot stat `./usr/bin/': No such file or directory?
<Amaranth> it's supposed to be ./debian/tmp/usr/bin/
<Amaranth> which is odd
<Amaranth> trying to outrun UVF here :)
<crimsun> you have until Sept
<bddebian> Amaranth: What's rules look like?
<crimsun> main UVF was today; universe/multiverse UVF is in late Sept.
<Amaranth> crimsun: it's a package for main, i guess
<Amaranth> ogra told me to get it done today
<Amaranth> bddebian: it's cdbs :)
<crimsun> yeah, you have negative time
<FunnyLookinHat> Anyone here on the motu-media team?
<crimsun> yes.
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: yeah, me too.  it's nasty
<bddebian> Amaranth: Ah, hmm
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: you know that UVF only applies to main, right?
<Amaranth> Hobbsee: yep
<Hobbsee> cool
<Amaranth> i also know i have an exception
<Hobbsee> crimsun: feel like uploading something for me?
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: nice :)
<Amaranth> but apparently it's harder if i don't have this in before UVF
<crimsun> Hobbsee: URL?
<Amaranth> which i missed?
<crimsun> Amaranth: ask mdz for an exception
<Amaranth> crimsun: need a working package first :)
<crimsun> bah, details.
<bddebian> heh
<Hobbsee> crimsun: http://rafb.net/paste/results/vOo8HI63.html needs to be applied to kopete, in edgy main.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: build- and install-tested?
<Amaranth> bddebian: http://rafb.net/paste/results/SOqlOg42.html
<Hobbsee> crimsun: not install tested.  shoulda checked that.  built accidently tested, yes.
<Hobbsee> give me a sec.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: please install-test, thanks.
<Amaranth> it's just getting called with dh_install -pwillowng-config
<Hobbsee> crimsun: just doing it now.  i'd forgotten that there'd be a few hours before UVF anyway - so i was expecting to wait
<Amaranth> perhaps my cd po is doing it...
<Amaranth> nope, that's not it
<bddebian> Do you have a dirs or .files file?
<Amaranth> i have .install files
<bddebian> What's it look like?
<Amaranth> http://rafb.net/paste/results/4NqnTS69.html
<crimsun> Hobbsee: where's the srcpkg for -0ubuntu2?
<crimsun> it hasn't been NEWed yet, so it's not readily available
<Hobbsee> crimsun: on my hard drive.  i've got a really slow ftp connection, hence the debdiff.
<Hobbsee> 0ubuntu1 is...
<Hobbsee> crimsun: http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/source/kopete
<Hobbsee> 0ubuntu2 is my revision, the patch goes against 0ubuntu1 doesnt it, making it 0ubuntu2?  or have i missed something?
<crimsun> ah crap, I was looking in main
<Hobbsee> crimsun: oh, i'ts in universe, that's interesting
* Hobbsee expects that'll be later promoted into main then.
<crimsun> yes, they NEW into universe by default
<Hobbsee> guess it makes sense for us to be able to modify it more first though
* crimsun pushes bddebian 
<bddebian> What'd I do now?
<crimsun> joking.
* Amaranth sighs
<bddebian> :-)
<Amaranth> this bug makes no sense :)
<Amaranth> but i'll remove things until it unfucks itself
<crimsun> beware the crazy stray characters
<crimsun> I spent an hour over a stray '\'
<bddebian> Amaranth: Sorry, I missed your paste
<Amaranth> *grumble*
<Amaranth> if i remove the .install files it works
<Amaranth> but of course i end up with two packages with the same contents
<crimsun> Hobbsee: erm
<crimsun> Hobbsee: how is this different from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edgy-changes/2006-July/002073.html ?
<Amaranth> *facepalm*
<Amaranth> .install files are supposed to start with debian/, aren't they?>
<Hobbsee> crimsun: ack, okay, so Riddell must have uploaded it last night, yet p.u.c hasnt updated yet.  it's right, dont worry.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: ok. I noticed the rejects upon applying it against extracted -0ubuntu2.
<fowlduck> someone update inkscape
<bddebian> W00t maxima built
<crimsun> bddebian: and crashes on startup!
<crimsun> (yay)
<bddebian> Yeah?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: heh, what, trying to reapply patches that are already applied?
<crimsun> Hobbsee: yeah
<bddebian> fuXX0r
<Hobbsee> crimsun: clearly, i shouldnt sleep, so i dont miss things.
* Hobbsee checks for wvthing that she did yesterday.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: nah, you should just paste edgy-changes/2006-July/thread.html to your desktop like I do. :)
<Hobbsee> crimsun: hah!
<Hobbsee> or just rss feed it.
<crimsun> or that
<Hobbsee> excellent, wvstreams went thru, and that's defintely in main!
<bddebian> Amaranth: You should be able to do it like:  foo usr/bin
<Amaranth> *shrug*
<Hawkwind> Is it true that there aren't xen kernels for Kubuntu ?  Xen is a huge thing in Debian so I figured surely Kubuntu would have it too
<bddebian>  libbar usr/lib
<Amaranth> debian/tmp/usr/bin/ works for me
<bddebian> That should work too
<crimsun> there is work being done for Xen+Ubuntu
<Amaranth> of course starting with ogra's install file i left some junk in that i keep forgetting to remove :)
<Hawkwind> crimsun: So nothing yet then ?
<crimsun> Hawkwind: meaning in-archive or...?
<Hawkwind> crimsun: Right.  I don't want to compile it if I don't have to
<crimsun> not in-archive yet
<Hawkwind> Strange that Kubuntu has xen-tools, but not the kernels
<crimsun> offline coffee.
<Amaranth> ack my init.d went to the wrong pacakge
<Amaranth> do i name it <package>.init.d to choose what package it should be for?
<Hawkwind> crimsun: Do you know by chance if we could use the debian deb packages in Kubuntu and it work ?
<bddebian> crimsun: Oh, well if you return, how does maxima crash?
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: that's a rather silly question, and there are many answers for it.
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: I ask because it's a kernel package so I'm not sure how well it would work on Kubuntu, or if even would
<Hobbsee> Hawkwind: well, it might.  the answers are either: 1)  it's not recommended 2) no 3) which debian version?  4) what are the changes?
<Hawkwind> I don't think I'm going to try it.  I think since it's kernel stuff I'll wait til Kubuntu gets it
<Hobbsee> oh, and 5) if it's in debian unstable, why havent they synced it in anyway
<Amaranth> ok, i appear to have the contents of the packages right, yay
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: Yeah I don't know what version of Debian it's available for.  I'll have to look
<Amaranth> laggy
<Hobbsee> Amaranth: yay!
<bddebian> Yeah Amaranth
<Amaranth> now for a quick run through pbuilder before i give it to ogra
* FunnyLookinHat is still trying to get the hang of pbuilder and whatnot.
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: which bits are you having trouble with?
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, getting started  : )
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, I'm trying to evaluate creating new and updated packages for mythTV for ubuntu repos.
<FunnyLookinHat> It's a bit of a difficult one to start with  : )
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: ah, yes.
<Hobbsee> please tell me you're doing it for edgy, not dapper
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, that's where I think I'm heading.
<bddebian> Have fun with the myth plugins
<Hobbsee> good
<tritium> 0.19 FunnyLookinHat ?
<Hobbsee> heh, yeah, that's what i thought when i looked at it
<FunnyLookinHat> tritium, rgr that.
<FunnyLookinHat> tritium, I found a guy who actually created them
<tritium> cool
<FunnyLookinHat> I am trying to see if he is willing to submit them to REPU
<FunnyLookinHat> err REVU
<FunnyLookinHat> ; )
<tritium> I'm building a myth box right now, FunnyLookinHat
<bddebian> Heya tritium
<FunnyLookinHat> tritium, ooh nice.  would you like the link to where I found the .19 packages for dapper?
<tritium> hey there, bddebian
<tritium> sure, FunnyLookinHat.  Thanks!
<FunnyLookinHat> tritium, http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/wiki/index.php/FAQ#Ubuntu
<tritium> thanks, FunnyLookinHat
<FunnyLookinHat> I emailed the guy in the changelog, hopefully he gets back to me soon, I need to submit the .19 for edgy by the 13th, right?
<tritium> that soon?
<FunnyLookinHat> that's when um.. what's it called, some sort of freeze occurs
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: no, it's not in main
<Hobbsee> UVF is for main only, universe freeze is much later
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, know when universe freeze is?
<Hobbsee> well, i'm assuming it's not in main
<FunnyLookinHat> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu uses a strict timetable for releases, which means that sometimes newly released programs miss the timetable. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases for more. Edgy schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: no, but !schedule does
<bddebian> multiverse I believe
<FunnyLookinHat> ; )
<FunnyLookinHat> how do I find out which repo (universe or multiverse) the myth packages are in?  I found them with apt-cache
<FunnyLookinHat> sorry wow, this is turning into #ubuntu support
<bddebian> bdefreese@bdubuntu1:~/edgy/xdrawchem/dapper/xdrawchem-1.9.8/debian$ apt-cache madison mythtv
<bddebian>     mythtv | 0.18.1-5ubuntu3 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/multiverse Packages
<bddebian>     mythtv | 0.18.1-5ubuntu3 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/multiverse Sources
<FunnyLookinHat> madison eh?
<Hobbsee> didnt know madison could be used for that
<FunnyLookinHat> afaik there is no "freeze" for multiverse
<Hobbsee> guess it can
<bddebian> You could also do an apt-cache showsrc and look at the Directory: entry I suppose
<bddebian> Or apt-cache policy
<FunnyLookinHat> bddebian is uber-|337
<bddebian> Not hardly
<crimsun> -> google://BdDebianIsAGod
<crimsun> FunnyHat_Away: I don't know offhand
<FunnyHat_Away> crimsun, that is in reply to...?
<FunnyHat_Away> : )
<crimsun> FunnyHat_Away: misdirected.
<crimsun> Hawkwind: I don't know offhand
<fowlduck> someone package Gnome Iconset Builder, thats so nice
<crimsun> fowlduck: you can.
* bddebian pokes crimsun in the eye
<fowlduck> crimsun, it's not what we call stable
<bddebian> crimsun: How does maxima die?
<crimsun> bddebian: no access to the machine currently (down)
<bddebian> Ah, OK
<crimsun> if/when I can reproduce, I'll file a bug w/ detalis
<crimsun> details ^
<fowlduck> crimsun, I could, but then I'd have to put it up for revu...and I have a few more that I'd like to do....maybe in a could weeks
<fowlduck> s/could/couple
<fowlduck> i know you care, heh, i'll be quiet
<crimsun> fowlduck: putting on them revu is a start
<bddebian> Is dh_iconcache still needed?
<crimsun> bddebian: yes
<crimsun> if the app is cdbs-based and uses kde.mk (system, not in debian/), then the call to it can be removed
<bddebian> thx
<crimsun> otherwise it needs to be retained
<fowlduck> where would I ask about how to make themes?  Anyone know a link or something?
<crimsun> for what DE?
<fowlduck> gnome
<fowlduck> sorry, icon themes specifically
<crimsun> look on art.gnome.org and gnome-look.org for tutorial links
<fowlduck> ok, thx
<Hobbsee> ajmitch, siretart?  ping?
<Hobbsee> or any other revu admin?
<ajmitch> yes?
<chillywilly> yo
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: i've uploaded polyxmass-bin to revu, and it's died midupload.  can you delete it please?
<ajmitch> removed
<bddebian> Hobbsee: What'd you have to change?
<bddebian> Heya chillywilly
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: thanks
* Hobbsee looks again
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon
<Hawkwind> Heya imbrandon_
<bddebian> Heya imbrandon
<imbrandon_> moins
<imbrandon_> heya bddebian
<bddebian> OK, well all the syncs I can do are done so I guess it's bed time
* crimsun pushes ivtools toward bddebian 
<crimsun> it's your birthday.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> go on bddebian :P
<bddebian> crimsun: Does it ftbfs?
<crimsun> bddebian: yep
<crimsun> should be a straightforward dh_install tweak
<bddebian> checking
<bddebian> crimsun: Yep it blew up.  I'll check on it while I'm on vacation
<crimsun> bddebian: no need, take a good vacation
<Hobbsee> bddebian: boo.  want to ack the sync?
<Hobbsee> bug 52838
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52838 in polyxmass-bin "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync polyxmass-bin 0.9.7-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52838
<crimsun> I'll punch ivtools til it cooperates or my hand hurts.
<bddebian> heh
<bddebian> Did you see the BTS bug about it?
<crimsun> yeah
<bddebian> Made no sense :-)
<bddebian> Well hell, I had better get to bed.  Catch you all in a day or two
<bddebian> Hobbsee: ack'd
<Hobbsee> bddebian: thanks
<bddebian> No, THANK YOU ;-)
<sharms> anyone read my -devel message?
<lifeless> no need to spam multiple channels
<sharms> didn't know if anyone was awake in -devel, its always much more quiet
<crimsun> haha
<crimsun> that cloak rules
<imbrandon_> crimsun, ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon_: ajmitch's, i expect
<Hobbsee>  /ubuntu/butnotamember/ajmitch
<imbrandon_> ahh ;) yea heheh thanks to rob ;)
<imbrandon_> for a half sec i thought he ment mine, and i was like wth is so special aobut mine LOL
<imbrandon_> crimsun, ping
<crimsun> imbrandon_: pong
<imbrandon_> hey got time to re-revu a packe and upload ( new package to ubuntu universe but riddell said uvf dident apply ) and you looked once , i made all the changes you and him proposed and he advocated it
<imbrandon_> package*
<crimsun> sure, upid?
<imbrandon_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2663
<crimsun> (right, UVF for universe is in late Sept.)
<imbrandon_> yea
<crimsun> give me ~3 mins to catch up on e-mail, please
<imbrandon_> np
<crimsun> imbrandon_: ok, couple more comments: 1) There are some changes that seem unnecessary, like the addition of a trailing empty line in debian/dirs and the debian/postinst that does nothing; 2) don't strip the original debianisation in debian/copyright; Dmitry is the rightful person, but you certainly should add your work: "...and modified for Ubuntu by ..."
<crimsun> imbrandon_: other than that, it looks suitable for uploading
<imbrandon_> sure, gimme a few to make the mods
<imbrandon_> crimsun, something like .... ( sorry for the paste its only 4 lines )
<imbrandon_> This package was debianized by Dmitry N. Hramtsov <hdn@nsu.ru> on
<imbrandon_> Sat, 27 Jul 2002 12:44:33 +0700.
<imbrandon_> And modified for Ubuntu by Brandon Holtsclaw <imbrandon@kubuntu.org> on
<imbrandon_> Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:44:33 -0500.
<imbrandon_> is what ya mean ?
<crimsun> yep, save without the full stop before "And" (which should be lowercase)
<imbrandon_> kk
<imbrandon_> ok re-uploaded, i'll ping ya when it shows on revu ( 5 min cycles )
<imbrandon_> crimsun, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2695
<crimsun> imbrandon_: noted.
<Hobbsee> bug 3406
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3406 in ksynaptics "ksynaptics not working in dapper/breezy" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3406
<pygi> @osijek
<pygi> ergh :P
<ivoks> pygi: lol
<pygi> ivoks, just you laugh :P
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you mean i cant get an upload in that will break main now?  darn!!! :P
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: you can, but I might pay StevenK to pay a visit to your house to jump on you in person. :-P
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: haha.
<StevenK> Now that would be cool.
<crimsun> oh man, I'd pay-per-view
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, guess he does know where i am, hey...
* StevenK whispers, "I know where you live."
<Hobbsee> this of course depends in the definition of jumped on.
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: you'd also have to find a key to let StevenK in...
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: or I could just be mean and have your upload rights revoked. :-P
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: what, the non-existant ones?  go for it1q
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: hmm, I always think you're a motu.  Well, then you can't break main anyway.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: after wednesday, hopefully i will be.  unless they give me core-dev righs that day too :P
<Mithrandir> you're clearly not that trustworthy. ;-P
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: and i can still get people to sponsor stuff - although probably not stuff that will break
<Hobbsee> hehe!
<Mithrandir> let's hope so, yes.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: they trust me with excessively large amounts of money at work, yet you dont with repos?
<Mithrandir> what's excessively large?  >1M AUD?
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: nah, not quite htat much - only an entire supermarket full of money.
<Hobbsee> that's out on the floor
<Mithrandir> and also, no I wouldn't necessarily trust you just because you handle loads of money.  That's not my money.
<crimsun> cool, more motus? /me pushes some work toward Hobbsee ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: haha
<zakame> hi all
<Hobbsee> hey zakame
<zakame> heya Hobbsee how are your merges?
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: no, i dont have upload rights.  i usually end up persuading people to upload my many things for me.
<Hobbsee> hey zakame.  not doing many at the moment, i was fighting with kopete last night, and doing bits of bugfixing today, before i saw autoconf breaking.
<zakame> awww autotools
<imbrandon_> moins zakame
<zakame> heya imbrandon_
<zakame> how's kubuntu hacking? =)
<Hobbsee> zakame: imbrandon_ 's been lazy, and left it all to me :P
<imbrandon_> good good ;)
<zakame> lol
<imbrandon_> hahaha
<imbrandon_> Hobbsee, not quite but most ;)
<zakame> I see we're UVF now
<Hobbsee> zakame: for main,yeha.
<Hobbsee> zakame: break things anyway.
<imbrandon_> hrm Hobbsee i dident get that patch to apply corerect, erm hold on i might not have the latest source *looks*
<zakame> ah
<imbrandon_> crimsun, so laterish your gonna upload the apt-mirror ? just wondering so we're all on the same page no hurries or anything
<crimsun> imbrandon_: I'd like to have another MOTU advocate first
<crimsun> just a formality, but it's important as we dive into easier-motuing.
<imbrandon_> ahh well Riddell advocated too and i thought you would be #2 ;) but no worries i'll grab second if wanted
<imbrandon_> erm 3rd i guess
<Riddell> huh?  we need 3 advocates now?
<Riddell> that's not easier motuing :)
<imbrandon_> i thought it was 2 but ummm
<Hobbsee> heh
<crimsun> Riddell: no, per-upload
<imbrandon_> heh
<imbrandon_> ahh ok so Riddell news to relook again since it was changed a bit
<crimsun> imbrandon_: per-paranoia I don't carry over advocates.
<crimsun> right.
<imbrandon_> ahh ok /me pokes riddell if he has time
<imbrandon_> need a url ?
<crimsun> (zakame is also a MOTU)
<imbrandon_> or zakeme
<imbrandon_> ;)
<Riddell> imbrandon_: after the meeting
<imbrandon_> ok no worries
<Hobbsee> Riddell: what meeting?
<imbrandon_> meeting?
<crimsun> Ubuntu dev team meeting
<Hobbsee> a
<imbrandon_> ahh ok
<Hobbsee> darn - pity work gets in the way
<lucas> copy/paste from #ubuntu-devel:
<lucas> [09:37:34]  <lucas> I'm preparing an announcement to ask users to participate in popcon
<lucas> [09:37:42]  <lucas> can somebody review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LucasNussbaum/PopconDraft ?
<lucas> [09:37:46]  <lucas> (feel free to edit it)
<ogra> lucas, its in the default install, no need to apt-get it
<Toadstool> 'morning
<lucas> that's why I say that "(changes are very high that you have it already) :"
<lucas> ok, I'll change it to a note saying that it's in the default install
<lucas> any other comments ?
<ogra> looks good
<lucas> ok
<lucas> I'll send it to ubuntu-d-a. Do you think it's worth sending to ubuntu-users ?
<lucas> or any other mailing list I'm unaware of ? :-)
<lucas> (/me not a big fan of ubuntu mailing lists)
<ogra> -user sounds good to get a wide audience
<ogra> *-users
<lucas> I imagine I have to subscribe before posting ?
<lucas> (done)
<imbrandon_> heh i had to read that twice, i was thinking , man who would name a package "popcorn"
<crimsun> ahh, much better. Now it feels like a development branch again.
<lifeless> what, you mean 'fucked' ?
<crimsun> :)
<rob> hehe
<Toadstool> now that everything is broken again I can dist-upgrade :)
* rob runs away like a girl
<imbrandon> anyone know whats going on with gluck.debian.org ? and if it affects our servers/repos at all ?
<imbrandon> ( not much infor on the mailing list or new articles )
<imbrandon>  /msg dpkg guidelines
<imbrandon> doh
<Toadstool> imbrandon: gluck.d.o has been compromised and it doesn't affect Ubuntu at all
<imbrandon> Toadstool, ok , yea i knew it had been just dident know if we needed to check syncs etc ;) np was just curious
<Toadstool> imbrandon: gluck "only" hosts the primary webserver and planet.d.o (see http://db.debian.org/machines.cgi?host=gluck)
<imbrandon> ahh nice , ok good ;)
<imbrandon> thanks Toadstool for clearing that up for me ;)
<Toadstool> np :)
<fabo> a pbuilder create gives me dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format ... Cannot understand package version/source
<fabo> any idea ?
<imbrandon> !info kdissert edgy
<ubotu> kdissert: mindmapping tool. In repository universe, is optional. Version 1.0.6-waf-b-1ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 855 kB, installed size 2584 kB
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ping
<imbrandon> crimsun, ping also
<dholbach> I start MOTU/FAQ now (in order to answer the latest mail on ubuntu-devel@)
<imbrandon> dholbach, nice
<dholbach> would be nice, if you could add stuff there as well
<imbrandon> wanna sponsor an upload for me real fast ?? hehe i'll trade for some wiki work
<dholbach> so we don't have it only in the bot
<dholbach> but somewhere else as well
<dholbach> imbrandon: ok
<imbrandon> dholbach, sure thing
<dholbach> what do you want to get sponsored?
<imbrandon> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2695  <-- the upload , its a new package i have two advocates ( crimsun and riddell )
<imbrandon> for universe
<imbrandon> also i need to find out how to mark a package ( kdissert ) as uploaded on revu, the version i posted on revu has been uploaded to edgy already
<imbrandon> hrm /MOTU/FAQ and /MOTU/Faq neither are there, have you saved yet ?
<imbrandon> ahh nvm
<imbrandon> just showed
<imbrandon> !packageversions > imbrandon
<dholbach> i wondered why they didn't upload it
<dholbach> uploaded
<imbrandon> thanks, and i just asked riddell to advocate becouse he was busy and told him i would find an uploader
<imbrandon> anyone have experince with dpkg-cross or building packages for another arch on an x86 ?
<imbrandon> dholbach, think maybe MOTU/School and /Classrom could work togather? or should we keep user and motu/dev seperate ?
<dholbach> what was classroom intended to be?
<imbrandon> its part of the NUN
<imbrandon> new user network
<imbrandon> bi-weekly classes or a wide range of things
<imbrandon> ( irc style )
<dholbach> seems to be a different audience, no?
<tolonuga> hi. is anyone here willing to create an updated package of openct for dapper-updates? if so I will create a patch relative to the current package for you fixing two open bugs rendering the package unusable.
<dholbach> i dunno - how do others feel about it?
<dholbach> hi tolonuga
<imbrandon> dholbach, yea , new user & motu/dev
<imbrandon> two diff aud
<imbrandon> but same idea
<dholbach> tolonuga: did you write the mail to ubuntu-devel@?
<tolonuga> yes.
<dholbach> tolonuga: did you assign the bugs to the 'motu-reviewers' team?
<imbrandon> and attach the pacth to the bug ?
<dholbach> yeah
<tolonuga> assign? need to check.
<imbrandon> patch*
<dholbach> tolonuga: i answered to your mail (in case you didn't read it) - the answer is on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ
<tolonuga> how do I assign someone? In launchpad I see no such bug. maybe "Subscribe Someone Else"?
<tolonuga> how do I open an dapper-updates tasks?
<imbrandon> not sure on that one
<dholbach> tolonuga: just mention it in the bug report - that should be fine
<tolonuga> ah, ok thanks.
<dholbach> cool
<imbrandon> dholbach, just curious shouldt that apt-mirror have come accross edgy-changes ?
<tolonuga> are launchpad bugs usualy closed via the lines in debian/changelog too? what is the proper notion? "(closes 5299)"?
<dholbach> imbrandon: it sits in NEW
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> till ?
<dholbach> imbrandon: it will have to be briefly reviewed by the archive admins, then it'll be on edgy changes
<imbrandon> ahh ok np, just never had a NEW package yet ;)
<dholbach> ah ok
<imbrandon> tolonuga, no , most of the time the uploader that uploads ( and changes the changelog , will mark the bug as "fix released" ) etc
<imbrandon> IE its not automated
<dholbach> tolonuga: there is no automatism yet
<dholbach> it's being worked on, afaik
* dholbach goes for a walk and lunch
<dholbach> bbl
<imbrandon> ;) have a good lunch ;)
<dholbach> merci
<pygi> hey NFS ^_^
<tolonuga> thanks a lot, have a good lunch
<imbrandon> heya pygi ;)
<pygi> imbrandon, yay, you know who you are ^_^
<imbrandon> hahah yea i think i'
<pygi> imbrandon, :)
<imbrandon> i'll have that nickname for a long time from you ;)
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> wb Hobbsee_
<pygi> not really, I promise this is the last time ^_^
<imbrandon> hahah np ;)
<pygi> so what's up??
<Hobbsee> hey all
* Hobbsee wasnt here the first time
<Hobbsee> someone want to say what went on?
<imbrandon> nadda finding stuff on LP to work on
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, went on where ?
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: when i just connected - i've got no idea what anyone said
<imbrandon> ohh nothing, i just said "hi"
<Hobbsee> ah :)
<Hobbsee> hey imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> you konw my xp clone theme ? i got my iBook to look exactly like osx jaguar
<imbrandon> ;)
* imbrandon is getting good at cloning
<pygi> imbrandon, I haven't found any cheaper iBook
<imbrandon> pygi, that still a good deal for that one
<pygi> imbrandon, yes, probably
<tolonuga> Hi again. I have a patch against openct which fixes two bugs in the dapper package. could anyone look at the patch and maybe upload the new openct package with it into dapper-updates? or what would be the best way to proceed?
<tolonuga> attached it to bug 50299 and bug 50393 in hope that someone can have a look.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50299 in openct "openct sometimes fails" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50299
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 50393 in openct "openct doesn't work in dapper (after first reboot)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50393
<Seveas> !pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment at, you can read more about setting it up on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<ubotu> pbuilder is already known...
<Seveas> !pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Seveas> hmm
<Seveas> !-pbuilder
<ubotu> pbuilder has no aliases - Added by Hobbsee on 2006-06-18 15:48:29
<Seveas> ah
<Hobbsee> say what?
<Seveas> just wanted to know when it was added 
<StevenK> Seveas: Can't ubotu say "I already know about <>, dummy."
<Hobbsee> ah
<Yagisan> hmm
<Yagisan> Seveas: that looks like a useful bot. Could I set one up on another channel
<Yagisan> ?
<Seveas> Yagisan, it's open source 
<Yagisan> Seveas: as I'm a bit slow today would you kindly point me towards where I could find it.
<Seveas> Yagisan, launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots/
<Yagisan> Seveas: Thank You
<Yagisan> Seveas: I'm getting a 403 on https://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/tarballs/
<Seveas> Yagisan, then use bzr 
<Yagisan> ah
<Yagisan> I'll add that to my todo list then.
* Yagisan hasn't used bzr before
<Seveas> bzr branch http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/
<raphink> this Dan is cute ;)
<raphink> I mean what he said on the ubuntu-motu list
<raphink> I have about four computers and am trying to set up a big
<raphink> fat network.
<raphink> reminds me of how big a deal it was to me to set 4 machines in network with tcp-ip when I was his age
<raphink> that was fun
<fowlduck> hi
<FunnyLookinHat> raphink, Where can I get my email address on the motu mailing list?  i can't seem to find it on the wiki page
<raphink> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu
<FunnyLookinHat> awesome thanks
<kelmo_lap> moin siretart
<kelmo_lap> siretart, will be afk for a few days, thought you ought to know
<cbx33> is it easy to run install fulxbox and gnome on the same ubuntu machine
<cbx33> and switch between them on logon?
<gorski> how to create .deb files?
<jpatrick> gorski: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<FunnyLookinHat> gorski, good luck...  it's a bit confusing  : )
<gorski> tnx, i'll give it a try
<gorski> it is like a crusader's task, you know.
<Yagisan> cbx33: should be. btw #ubuntu or #edubuntu next time
<cbx33> sorry Yagisan
<Yagisan> cbx33: no worries, just passing on the advice I get for being to off topic
<cbx33> heheh
<bluefoxicy> wtf boobs?
<bluefoxicy> New in repository: liboobs-1-0
<Hobbsee> bluefoxicy: the joke wasnt great the last few days in -devel and it's not funny today either.
<bluefoxicy> Hobbsee:  Funny or not, what I want to know is if some dev did it intentionally or if they thought it'd be funny
<bluefoxicy> err.  did intentionally/didn't really notice
<jpatrick> bluefoxicy: don't forgot your libsexy-doc
<bluefoxicy> jpatrick:  I'm sure that one wasn't really intentional :p
<bluefoxicy> hmm.  Upgrading ubuntu-desktop removes gnucash
<phanatic> hi people
<Gloubiboulga> hey phanatic
<phanatic> hey Gloubiboulga
<bluefoxicy> http://lwn.net/Articles/190139/ is now open content :D
<Spec> the article or prelink?
<LaserJock> dholbach: ping?
<dholbach> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> dholbach: did you see my comment on Mentors/Discussion?
<dholbach> LaserJock: yes, I did
<dholbach> LaserJock: I think we should add a more inviting text above the list
<LaserJock> dholbach: also, I think I got my first catch from Mentors
<Ramunas> hello
<dholbach> LaserJock: the list just reflects reality - we can't maintain something like "office hours" in there or something
<dholbach> hey Ramunas
<dholbach> LaserJock: WOW!
<Ramunas> any ideas when new amarok will be added to repos?
<dholbach> Ramunas: we as the MOTUs don't take care of 'main' applications - you might want to ask in #kubuntu-devel about the plans
<Ramunas> ah, thanks
<LaserJock> dholbach: yeah, but maybe we can put it in a less negative way. Maybe we should give TZ and have text on the top that says something along the lines of "MOTU mentors have many responsibilites besides mentoring so please be patient, they will get back to you"
<dholbach> LaserJock: ok - if you find another way, I'm happy with it
<dholbach> LaserJock: I understand your concern, I'm quite sure nobody would write somebody who is "very busy" :)
<LaserJock> but we do need a way to say that we "are" busy so it might take some time, and some people are less busy than others
<dholbach> maybe say something like "I'd like to take one or two motu hopefuls" and somebody else can say "I'm fine with 3-4"
<dholbach> and another column with how many you actually have?
<dholbach> *shrug*
<LaserJock> yeah, maybe a column with how many more you are currently willing to take
<LaserJock> I'm guessing we'll need to "feel" our way through this for a while since I have no idea what I'm doing at least :-)
<dholbach> yeah :)
<LaserJock> I guess with this person I got today I'd be up to 3
<LaserJock> not sure how much time this is going to take
<dholbach> i think it's going to take until they are comfortable with asking their own questions on the list or the channel
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I'm going to have to come up with a list of items to take them through, just so I can remember and be consistent
<LaserJock> I think the FAQ is going to rock
<LaserJock> btw :-)
<dholbach> it will be good 'market research' for us to find out which problems we have and what could be made easier
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> much easier to fix things and create documentation when you know what the issues are ;-)
<LaserJock> !
<ubotu> I know nothing about ! - try searching bots.ubuntulinux.nl, help.ubuntu.com and wiki.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> excelent
<dholbach> ;)
<ogra> ubotu, are you a bot ?
<ubotu> I know nothing about are you a bot ? - try searching bots.ubuntulinux.nl, help.ubuntu.com and wiki.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> ogra: not as friendly as our girl :-)
<ogra> why the heck does nobody program a sane answer to that in their bots ?
<ogra> yeah, she's still the most lovely bot
<zul> tradition?
<siretart> slomo: concratulation for your finished NM questionaire! :)
<LaserJock> \o/
<slomo> siretart: thanks :) i didn't notice that he set it to finished already...
<slomo> siretart: oh lol, he wrote me in irc at this very moment :)
<siretart> slomo: I just read the report on the mailinglist
<LaserJock> man, #ubuntu-xgl has a lot of factoids for the bot
<siretart> LaserJock: add them! :)
<LaserJock> azeem: hi!
<azeem> hi Jordan
<LaserJock> azeem: seems ghemical is a bit sick :/
<azeem> oh :(
<LaserJock> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<LaserJock> azeem: it's FTBS in edgy
<LaserJock> azeem: somebody said it wasn't compiling well in unstable either but I haven't checked
<LaserJock> azeem: is it compiling fine for you?
<azeem> it FTBFS on ia64
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> I'm on x86
<LaserJock> azeem: want the pbuilder output?
<azeem> sure
<LaserJock> could be something I'm doing wrong
<azeem> however, I'm off now, either mail me or highlight an URL
<LaserJock> azeem: alright, thanks
<imbrandon> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there"
<ubotu> for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<imbrandon> little more readable LaserJock ^^ ;)
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> imbrandon: are you able to add factoids?
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> %editors
<ubotu> Seveas, gnomefreak, apokryphos, ompaul, thoreauputic, Hobbsee, Amaranth, bimberi, nalioth, Madpilot, LjL, Riddell, imbrandon, uniq
<imbrandon> LaserJock, need some done ?
<Seveas> imbrandon, don't abuse the also thing if you can put it in one line
<imbrandon> ok Seveas
<Seveas> !forget revu-also
<ubotu> I've forgotten it
<Seveas> !revu =~ s/$/ for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/
<ubotu> You used the delimiter too often. Maybe try another one?
<Seveas> !revu =~ s#$# for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU#
<ubotu> I'll remember that
<LaserJock> Seveas: so can you make factoids channel specific?
<Seveas> yes
<imbrandon> yea !ops is chan specific
<LaserJock> k
<Seveas> all xgl factoids are channel specific 
<LaserJock> yeah, I saw that
<LaserJock> that's why I asked
<LaserJock> it looked like it was possible
<Seveas> (channel specific factoids can still be accessed from other channels though)
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I was just thinking there might be some items that might overlap a bit and I'd like to have a -motu specific version
<sharms2> if I update a control file do I need to increment the version #?
<LaserJock> well, you can't reupload the same package with changes
<LaserJock> sharms2: are you talking about for REVU?
<LaserJock> or just in general?
<sharms2> LaserJock: in general, you just answered it
<LaserJock> for REVU you can override your package and it's ok because it seperates each upload
<LaserJock> but the archives don't do that
<sharms2> I don't have my gpg key with me (on a laptop at school) so if I want to test a package and am getting: Failed to sign .dsc and .changes file    what can I do?
<sharms2> using: dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot
<tseng> thats a warning, not an error
<tseng> it builds the package
<tseng> now, without the gpg key and a valid signature, dont expect to upload it to revu or ubuntu
<tseng> but it built it.
<sharms2> tseng: I didnt see the normal gcc stuff fly by, shouldnt I have?
<tseng> no
<tseng> -S = source
<bluefoxicy> Gdk-CRITICAL **: file gdkfont.c: line 335 (gdk_string_width): assertion `font != NULL' failed.
<bluefoxicy> so much for audacity.
<sharms2> I figured it out, I believe I am retarded
<Seveas> !foo
<ubotu> foo is LaserJock
<tseng>  I don't get it
<LaserJock> sweet
<tseng> !foo
<ubotu> foo is LaserJock
<tseng> ok then.
<LaserJock> tseng: bot testing :-)
<fowlduck> how do i get the debian/ contents out of an existing package?
<LaserJock> fowlduck: grab the source package
<fowlduck> heh, I didn't make one? :/
<fowlduck> is there another way?
<LaserJock> ok, I don't understand
<fowlduck> i made one, but i don't know where it is
<fowlduck> i just have the binary now
<slomo> it's lost in the binary
<LaserJock> you can sort of get bits and pieces, but the binary doesn't have the debian/, I dont' think
* fowlduck hunts for the source package...
<LaserJock> good idea :-)
<LaserJock> !mentors
<ubotu> for initial mentoring to introduce you to the MOTU world check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentors
<tseng> thats useful
<tseng> if i can remember it
<LaserJock> hehe
<sharms2> ++ for mentors
<crimsun> imbrandon: pong, but in n' out for the next 6 hours
<LaserJock> !seen dholbach
<ubotu> I last saw dholbach (n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach) 54m 25s ago, quiting: "Ex-Chat"
<LaserJock> sweet
<_ion> ajmitch: I posted a patch to bug #36531
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36531 in f-spot "f-spot-screensaver and gnome-screensaver don't mix" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36531
<LaserJock> !info plotdrop
<ubotu> plotdrop: A minimal GNOME frontend to GNUPlot. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.5-0ubuntu1 (dapper), package size 25 kB, installed size 184 kB
<LaserJock> extra coolness
<crimsun> !info plotdrop edgy
<ubotu> plotdrop: A minimal GNOME frontend to GNUPlot. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.5-0ubuntu1 (edgy), package size 25 kB, installed size 184 kB
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder if it works with Debian
<LaserJock> !info plotdrop unstable
<ubotu> plotdrop: A minimal GNOME frontend to GNUPlot. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.5-0ubuntu1 (dapper), package size 25 kB, installed size 184 kB
<LaserJock> :(
<bluefoxicy> Is anyone else getting hit on?  o_o
* bluefoxicy closes query with random person who decided to /msg him
<tseng> thanks for sharing that.
<LaserJock> bluefoxicy: hmm, how come I never get hit on :(
<LaserJock> they must be afraid of the lasers
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> hi LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi cbx33, no I haven't reviewed it yet
<cbx33> I wasn't goign to ask
<LaserJock> you were thinking it though :-)
<cbx33> I know you're busy, bud, you'll get to it when you have time
<LaserJock> I'm buying >$2000 worth of optics today
<cbx33> actually no, I was thinking why is my f***ing computer giving so much lag in Jack
<cbx33> and why does zsynaddfx crash my machine
<LaserJock> I'm struggling with how in the heck I ended up doing so many things
<cbx33> :D it works
<LaserJock> I need to figure out how to administer a mediawiki wiki today :-)
<cbx33> ah
#ubuntu-motu 2006-07-14
<bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  I don't know, someone /msg'd me like "are you a girl asl?"
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> darn, I have a hard time not saying, "No we will not be shipping Gnome or Xorg at all, screen, irssi, and lyx are what is going to make edgy, edgy" :-)
<fowlduck-> LaserJock, could you give me a hand packaging this? http://pastebin.ca/87393
<fowlduck-> a small issue I'm sure, everything else has gone well
<fowlduck-> LaserJock, I got it, someone from debian-mentors caught it.  it was installing to usr/man/man1 instead of usr/share/man/man1
<LaserJock> oops
<fowlduck-> yeah, the devil is in the details
<fowlduck-> new question, what do you do if a Makefile doesn't have an install: section?
<azeem> fowlduck-: fix the Makefile and send a patch upstream
<azeem> unless the Makefile/program is totally trivial
<fowlduck-> pretty much
<azeem> then just put it in place in debian/rules' install: or binary*: target, maybe via dh_install
<fowlduck-> yeh, thats what someone was saying
<_ion> ajmitch: Hi. See the awaylog, i posted a patch that seems to fix the problem with the f-spot screensaver.
<zul> hmmm...quiet
<fowlduck-> a little too quiet
<zul> hey hub
<sharms2> I am running dpkg-buildpackage -S -sd -rfakeroot and am getting: /usr/bin/fakeroot: line 150: debian/rules: Permission denied
<sharms2> and the line 150 in rules is: .PHONY: build clean binary-indep binary-arch binary install
<crimsun> my cruddy connection has fubared edgy running on tiber; so if someone could kill the locks and ``pbuilder-edgy update''
<jaldhar> sharms2: is line 150 the last line of debian/rules?
<hub_> sharms2: I think it is line 150 of /usr/bin/dpkg-buildpackage
<hub_> sharms2: can you run the command fakeroot?
<zul> fun fun..
<jaldhar> dpkg-buildpackage is a binary so it is unlikely it has a 'line 150'
<hub_> jaldhar: are you sure?
<hub_> /usr/bin/dpkg-buildpackage: Bourne shell script text executable
<hub_> that is what I have here
<jaldhar> hub_: hmm, you're right.
<Hobbsee> morning all
<jaldhar> anyway my guess to sharms2's problem was that debian/rules is not executable
<Hawkwind> Hobbsee: Evening/Morning to ya
<Hobbsee> hi Hawkwind
<Hobbsee> morning
<zul> evening to most everyone else Hobbsee, geez get with the program
<Hawkwind> How's aussie land bright and early
<Hobbsee> @time sydney
<Hawkwind> Heh zul
<Ubugtu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: July 14 2006, 11:45:18
<Hobbsee> zul: stop living in the past!
<Hawkwind> zul: She's in our future
<Hobbsee> you think it's still friday.
<Hawkwind> You mean Thursday
<Hawkwind> Heh
<Hawkwind> @time chicago
<Ubugtu> Current time in America/Chicago: July 13 2006, 20:45:55
<Hobbsee> it's friday.  stop living in the past
<zul> i try to...i like to go forward once in  a while
<Hobbsee> hehe
<hub_> I should relally upgrade to inkscape
<fowlduck> it's nice
<hub_> to edgy I meant
<fowlduck> the new one, .44 is excellent, don't think it's updated in the repos yet
<fowlduck> oh
<hub_> (to get a new inkscape)
<hub_> fowlduck: it seems to be in edgy
<fowlduck> hub_: would you happen to know if the ubuntu text installer is identical in breezy and dapper?
<hub_> fowlduck: I haven't seen one in Dapper
<hub_> dapper use ubuntu express
<fowlduck> oh, it's on the "Alternative" CD
<hub_> I have the shipit cds
<fowlduck> i see
<hub> damn I have to rebuild libgc first
<hub> *sigh*
<fowlduck> there is a forum post, someone posted the .44 package
<fowlduck> why upgrade to edgy when you can just install one package
<fowlduck> or package it yourself
<hub> I'm rebuilding the pacjage
<hub> from edgy
<fowlduck> cool
<hub> on dapper
<hub> I'll upgrade to edgy after OLS
<fowlduck> OLS?
<hub> I need a stable laptop
<hub> Ottawa Linux Symposium
<fowlduck> oh
<fowlduck> ok?
<fowlduck> hmm, seems no one knows about the installer
<fowlduck> guess I'll go with it
<fowlduck> i've been sitting too long
<fowlduck> ugh
* #ubuntu-motu  [freenode-info]  please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<RichJ> set chanact_
<dholbach> good morning
<Gloubiboulga> hello MOTU world
<crimsun> hi gauvain, daniel
<dholbach> hey daniel
* dholbach hugs Gloubiboulga, crimsun
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: there are some more dapper bug reports claiming that gnumeric-gtk does something that gnumeric doesn't ;)
<dholbach> Gloubiboulga: you might want to add yourself as gnumeric bug subscriber ;)
* dholbach hugs Gloubiboulga
<zakame> hi all
<crimsun> hi zak
<zakame> heya crimsun ! :D
<onkarshinde> jdong: I hope I am not disturbing you in your usual work.
<jdong> onkarshinde: no disturbance at all :)
<jdong> thanks for your participation in backports
<onkarshinde> jdong: I am happy to help all the way I can. I haven't learned packaging yet. Hope to help with backporting soon.
<jdong> cool; glad to hear that
<jdong> I was just out on a 2-week trip
<jdong> so I'm catching up here, too
<onkarshinde> jdong: Just wanted to pull your attention toward ekiga backport request if you haven't noticed yet.
<crimsun> onkarshinde: that's not necessarily a smart idea. Several people have reported outright crashes with Edgy's ekiga.
<jason_> any body know why 'gksu -a' dosn't always force to ask for a password
<onkarshinde> crimsun: Ok. I didn't know that. I was just hoping that latest bugfixes in 2.0.2 will be helpful.
<crimsun> onkarshinde: I'm sure they would be, but like any freeze exception, we have to weigh new updates carefully.
<onkarshinde> crimsun: hmm
<crimsun> siretart: ping (RE: bug 52936)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52936 in xine-lib "libxine1-dbg empty" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52936
<siretart> crimsun: oh, right. my fault
<siretart> crimsun: will fix
<crimsun> siretart: hi, because compat v4 is used, libxine-main1-dbg would be the name of the package, no (not libxine1-dbg)? Also, the build-dependency version on binutils needs to be raised to >= 2.14.90.0.7 according to dh_strip(1) due to --dbg-package being used.
<siretart> ah. ok
<siretart> crimsun: I have the package in a bzr branch, feel free to fix it in your branch ;)
<crimsun> atm test-building to verify via dpkg-deb -c
<crimsun> yep, that was it
<crimsun> crimsun@adhd:~/pbuilder/result$ dpkg-deb -c libxine-main1-dbg_1.1.2-2ubuntu2_amd64.deb |wc -l
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<crimsun> 106
<crimsun> siretart: I'm on a very, very slow connection atm (33.6 kbps dialup), mind if I just attach a debdiff?
<StevenK> Whee
<StevenK> 33k6
<crimsun> heh, the jitter makes it worse than a 14.4 :(
<jdong> onkarshinde: I'm also thinking of delaying the ekiga backport until it stabilizes
<jdong> IMO our current version works well enough
<jdong> and it's a marketed piece of the Dapper experience, so not something I'd want to screw up :)
<onkarshinde> jdong: No problem.
<jdong> onkarshinde: regarding bug 52486, I don't see gnucash 2.0.0 in edgy
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52486 in dapper-backports "GnuCash 2.0.0 " [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52486
<slomo> jdong: ehm it is in edgy :)
<onkarshinde> jdong: Checked on packages.ubuntu.com. The package in edgy is still 1.9.8.
<slomo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gnucash/2.0.0-1
<StevenK> 2.0.0-1 *source* is in edgy
<slomo> it simply failed to build
<StevenK> The binaries are still 1.9.8
<onkarshinde> slomo: What are reasons for failure?
<slomo> broken python some days ago it seems... should build fine now
<siretart> crimsun: no problem
<Riddell> rob: actually it's already uploaded, but I found a couple of issues anyway http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2627
<rob> ok, I'll take a look
<rob> Riddell, it failed to build without the docbook-xml build-dep for the man page
<Arbiter> any REVU admin here?
<\sh> no ;)
<\sh> Arbiter: what's the problem with rev?
<\sh> revu?
<Arbiter> heh... i just added myself to the launchpad group... i think that a gpg keyring refresh is required
<Riddell> rob: really?  worked for me, but it's not too important
<rob> I fixed the .desktop file (copies to debian/dolphin now), just testing the build and I'll upload it to revu soon
<Riddell> rob: did you patch it too?
<rob> oh, no
<rob> won't revu provide a debdiff anyway?
<Arbiter> \sh, i've sent an email to keyring@revu.blah blah blah (the old way) in order to insert the new GPG key into the REVU keyring but Stefan told me to join the launchpad group and then request a revu's keyring request :D
<Arbiter> *refresh
<Arbiter> ehm...
<Arbiter> :P
<Arbiter> \sh, just tell me when done.. i have to upload some packages ;)
<\sh> Arbiter: well, I think you need to re-upload them when you are added
<Arbiter> uhm..
<Arbiter> no problem
<rob> Riddell, the only change was to the rules file, does this still need a patch?
<Riddell> rob: the .desktop files needs a patch to add a Categories= line
<rob> as well?
<Riddell> yes
<rob> ok
* rob looks for a good dpatch howto
<rob> Riddell, the original .desktop file has a Categories line
<rob> Categories=System;FileManager
<Riddell> it does?  I can't see it
<rob> its about half way down, src/dolphin.desktop
<Riddell> oh, that must have been added in 0.5.2, I was looking on my system which has 0.5.1
<rob> ah
<rob> yeah, there have been a lot of updates since the one on the web site
<rob> (the dolphin web site that is)
<Riddell> groovy, well best thing would be to tell upstream to use XDG in his Makefile.am
<rob> its not to standard?
<Riddell> no, it uses the obsolete applnk stuff
<rob> ok, I'll pass that on
<Riddell> kdelnk_DATA = dolphin.desktop, it should use xdg_apps_DATA = dolphin.desktop
<Riddell> rob: thanks for packaging dolphin, I've had a couple of requests for it.  if you need other kde stuff reviewed give me a ping or join us on #kubuntu-devel
<rob> no problems, thanks, I'll probably take you up on that :)
<zul> hiho
<Gloubiboulga> hi zul
<cypher1> hi masters
<cypher1> ;)
<phanatic> hi motus
<Erlang> ... and non-motus.
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic, Erlang
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee
<phanatic> Erlang: right :)
<zakame> hi all
<phanatic> hey zakame
<Hobbsee> hi zakame
<zakame> hi phanatic Hobbsee
<givre> hi guys, i'm not sure that it's the right channel to ask that, but vmware-player-kernel-modules need to be updated for the new kernel
<givre> it's could be great if there were something more automatic, to be fast, the kernel update was 2 days ago...
<givre> or a metapackage who wait for all the module to be updated
<Hobbsee> givre: please file a bug for that, under the source package for vmware-player-kernel-modules
<givre> Hobbsee, ok thanks, i'll do that
<dholbach> givre: BenC is aware of that.
<givre> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/vmware-player-kernel-2.6.15 that was just fone i sppose
<zul> uh...i uploaded an update for vmware-player a while ago
<web-user56> [*willyt@*.dynamic.hinet.net] 
<web-user56> [t1234] 
<givre> zul, yeah right, the source package is ok, but the binary is still not there http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=vmware&searchon=names&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
<zul> ill bug pitti
<john> holy shit, www.mldesigners.com just released full disclosure on a gmail exploit, who at gmail should i contact?
<pygi> john, where do you see that?
<mukund> pygi: he's likely a spammer advertising that website
<pygi> mukund, ofcourse
<mukund> reading that message, one would be tempted to visit the website
<pygi> hehe :)
* mukund . o O (They are getting better!)
<sladen> D'oh!
<pygi> imbrandon, you now here?
<imbrandon> i'm everywhere /whois me and see all the channels i idle in ;)
<mukund> hi sladen
<schofield> anyone here?
<schofield> hi lbm
<lbm> hi schofield
<schofield> could i ask you about ubuntu universe packages?
<phanatic> schofield: you could ask anyone ;)
<schofield> ok, great :)
<schofield> There's a package in Debian unstable that I'd like to get into Edgy
<schofield> called python-numpy
<schofield> for numerical computing in Python.
<phanatic> if it works on ubuntu without modification, you should file a sync request afaik
<_ion> http://packages.ubuntu.com/src:python-numpy
<schofield> Okay, nice
<schofield> so it's already there
<schofield> I'd also like to get a newer version of python-scipy in, which depends on python-numpy
<schofield> but that's not in sid yet.
<schofield> When's the deadline for this?
<lfittl> schofield: September 28th
<schofield> thanks, lfittl
<schofield> Is there a website with such dates for Edgy?
<lfittl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdgyReleaseSchedule
<schofield> thanks :)
<lfittl> np
<Arbiter> i need a REVU admin...
<Arbiter> have you done the keyring refresh?
<Arbiter> (i see all my uploads rejected)
<LaserJock> siretart: ping? ^^
<LaserJock> is the FSF address the Franklin St one?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> (which is why the newest Python policy is amusing to me0
<crimsun> )
<LaserJock> heh, yeah
<fowlduck> ??
<LaserJock> fowlduck: ?
<zul> what does DH_OPTIONS do?
<LaserJock> gives options to all dh_*
<zul> ahok..
<LaserJock> so if you have a common flag you need to give to all dh_* you can use that
<LaserJock> btw, man debhelper has some cool info
<LaserJock> it has what the different compat levels actually mean
<LaserJock> hmm, how do I keep an ssh connection alive?
<nixternal> use it
<LaserJock> other then that :-)
<nixternal> hehe..i know there are clients that allow you to do a "keep connection alive" setting..but just using ssh via cli i don't know
<pygi> LaserJock, do a ping every 10 secs?
<LaserJock> pygi: hmm, that might work
<ogra> why should it die ?
<LaserJock> ogra: they usually have some timeout for inactivity
<ogra> i usually am connected to my server until the DSL reconnect pops in
<nixternal> because the server has a set "timeout" for inactivity
<LaserJock> some terminals automatically send a keep alive
<LaserJock> but I've got the xterm in OSX that keeps dying on me
<LaserJock> I'm ssh'ing from OS X to and Ubuntu box
<nixternal> maybe it is local?
<nixternal> maybe the term inactivity is dying
<LaserJock> nah, I can us the OS X terminal and it's fine
<nixternal> k
<nixternal> hey
<nixternal> http://www.openssh.com/faq.html#2.12
<nixternal> there you go sir
<nixternal> enjoy!!!
<LaserJock> ah, that's what I was looking for
<LaserJock> I was looking for Timeout in sshd_config
<nixternal> heh, i just figured you know, a phd, you might have some google skillz ;)
<nixternal> hahah
* nixternal runs quick as he knows a laser is aimed at um
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> very funny
<nixternal> ;)
<nixternal> actually..i didn't google it..it was the first thing i saw when i opened the ssh faq
<LaserJock> who needs google when you've got #ubuntu-* ? ;-)
<LaserJock> my own personal wikipedia
<nixternal> lol
<LaserJock> lol, now I have to figure out how to restart ssh in OS X
<LaserJock> I was looking for a /etc/init.d but alas I had to settle for a GUI
<phanatic> evening
<pygi> phanatic, ! :)
<phanatic> hey pygi :)
#ubuntu-motu 2006-07-15
<azeem> LaserJock: http://incoming.debian.org/ghemical_2.01-1_i386.changes
<LaserJock> azeem: wahoo!
<LaserJock> azeem: how long should it take to hit the archives? incoming is pretty fast, right?
<azeem> it's past dinstall, it'll get installed tomorrow
<azeem> in about 20 hours
<LaserJock> great
<LaserJock> have you seen the Ubuntu patches?
<crimsun> (we can sync from incoming if you need it synced)
<LaserJock> well, it won't hurt to wait
<crimsun> surely won't
<LaserJock> I'm just excited, that's all
<crimsun> time to snarf some patches
<LaserJock> it's the app that could make my department turn to linux :-)
<LaserJock> mwuahahaha
<azeem> LaserJock: I synced with Ubuntu in 1.91-3
<LaserJock> azeem: ok, great. I hope we did things ok on the Ubuntu end
<LaserJock> the more I work on Ubuntu the more I hate divergence
<LaserJock> ok, I don't get the difference between Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep
<azeem> Build-Depends-Indep is only useful if you build both binary-arch and binary-indep pacakges
<azeem> you can put stuff in there which is needed during the build-indep: target
<azeem> like tetex, jadetex, sgml stuff, etc.
<LaserJock> hmm, so if a package has only binary-indep?
<azeem> everything needed for clean: has to be in Build-Depends
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> and everything else in Build-Depends-Indep?
<azeem> so I guess it makes no sense to split it up into B-D and B-D-I in those cases
<LaserJock> I don't quit understand how to seperate what's Build-Depends and B-D-I
<cbx33> I'm here
<azeem> cbx33: welcome back
<cbx33> hi azeem
<LaserJock> I understand that B-D is for clean
<azeem> LaserJock: I'd rather say B-D is for everything
<LaserJock> well, yes
<azeem> except for additional stuff needed for binary-all packages, like building documentation
<LaserJock> but the difference between B-D and B-D-I seems to be mostly in the clean rule
<azeem> that's just an artefact of policy IMHO
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> ok, so the Policy footnote has: If you make "build-indep" or "binary-indep", you need Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep.
<azeem> hrm
<LaserJock> so do you put everything but what is needed in clean: in B-D-I?
<LaserJock> I *kinda* understand the difference between B-D and B-D-I but I don't quite get how you tell what to put in each
<cbx33> and I'm completely lost on both
<LaserJock> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html
<azeem> LaserJock: both Build-Depends and Build-Depends-Indep (if present) need to be satisfied at build:
<LaserJock> right
<azeem> so most libfoo-dev are for Build-Depends
<LaserJock> only B-D at clean
<azeem> while the debhelper/cdbs/dpatch etc. stuff is needed at clean
<azeem> unfortunately, there's no destinction between the two
<azeem> but you can't put the libfoo-dev (which isn't needed at clean) into B-D-I, that would break debian/rules build-arch
<azeem> if present
<crimsun> cbx33: because you migrated B-D -> B-D-I in debian/control, you need to make the corresponding adjustments in debian/rules
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> can you help me with that
<cbx33> everything has been moved to build-indep
<LaserJock> ok, so I'm guess (from the Policy and lintian output) that if you are using binary-indep you should put the all the deps in B-D-I except those needed for the clean rule
<cbx33> which would be debhelper?
<LaserJock> at least in cbx33's case were he has no binary-dep
<LaserJock> cbx33: right
<cbx33> so i need build-depends
<azeem> note that the point of B-D-I was to avoid having to install those on the autobuilders
<cbx33> and build-depends-indep
<azeem> IMHO it's fine to just have everything in B-D for pure Arch: all packages, but maybe there is a rule against
<crimsun> cbx33: things like cdbs, debhelper, and python should not be B-D-I
<crimsun> cbx33: things like python-all-dev and python-central should be B-D-I
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> cbx33: I think you problem was because you had some stuff in binary-indep and some stuf in binary-arch
<LaserJock> when you should have all of it in binary-indep
<cbx33> :S:S:S
<cbx33> crimsun, did you say I should split them
<cbx33> and LaserJock did you say I shoulnd't?
<LaserJock> not exactly
<crimsun> you /should/ split them.
<LaserJock> crimsun: binary-indep and binary-arch in debian/rules?
<crimsun> I'm referring to debian/control atm
<crimsun> I'll look at debian/rules now
<LaserJock> yeah, I get that
<cbx33> thanks crimsun
<crimsun> heh, there's a fairly nice way to avoid it if you'd like
<crimsun> switch to cdbs ;)
<LaserJock> lol
<cbx33> that built fine
<LaserJock> make it disapper through magic
<cbx33> so I've edited the control file
<cbx33> what am I doing with rules
<LaserJock> cbx33: can you pastebin your control and rules files?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> http://pastebin.ca/88444
<LaserJock> hmm, I wonder how easy that would be with CDBS? a 2-3 liner?
<cbx33> LaserJock, don;t even go there
<cbx33> we can do that later
* cbx33 is about to cry
<crimsun> no, it'd be about 10 lines
<LaserJock> cbx33: hehe
<crimsun> you'd need to redef binary-install
<LaserJock> ah
<cbx33> can you mod the pastebin?
<cbx33> then I can copy and paste out
<crimsun> (cdbs would need binary-install redefined for dh_pycentral and dh_python)
<crimsun> hmph
<LaserJock> really? I thought they magified it or something
<LaserJock> cbx33: ok, that looks sane to me
<LaserJock> crimsun: what do you think?
<crimsun> he needs to run lintian
<crimsun> I think it may barf on dh_py* being in binary-indep, which would make sense
<LaserJock> hmmm
<LaserJock> because of the compiling?
<cbx33> pete@ubuntu:~/gisomount-build2$ lintian gisomount_1.0.1-0ubuntu1.dsc
<cbx33> W: gisomount source: newer-standards-version 3.7.2
<cbx33> pete@ubuntu:~/gisomount-build2$
<crimsun> really need to clarify w/ doko
<crimsun> I've seen python-central used in both B-D-I and B-D
<cbx33> I'll upload what I have now shall I?
<crimsun> cbx33: sure
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> uploaded
<cbx33> I'll await your approval guys
<cbx33> thanks for the ehlp LaserJock and crimsun
<LaserJock> haha, is that the British pronunciation, "ehlp"? :-)
<cbx33> heheheh:p
<cbx33> oi
<cbx33> I'll buy you both a beer if I get to the next dev summit
<cbx33> I'm off to bed
<LaserJock> k, have a good sleep knowing that gisomount is much closer to being in Universe
<cbx33> LaserJock, http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gisomount-0607141620/lintian
<cbx33> see the top error
<cbx33> that happened when I changed it to edgy
<cbx33> is that ok?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> lintian doesn't know about edgy
<cbx33> W: gisomount source: build-depends-without-arch-dep
<cbx33> is the only issue to resolve
<LaserJock> it's resolved, right?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> that's the latest lintian
<LaserJock> http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/gisomount-0607141925/lintian
<cbx33> but it doesn't show when I run it on my local machine
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> you didn't go to the latest upload
<cbx33> i was wrong
<cbx33> :D
<LaserJock> it's now Ubuntu lintian/linda clean ;-)
<crimsun> by-run, yes. But semantically, we should check w/ doko
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> are you going to wait to upload until that is checked?
<LaserJock> it's probably better to get it right the first time then have to upload a new package
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what time doko will be around
<LaserJock> but it shouldn't take too long to get it settled, and if anybody can settle it it'd be doko
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> I think I have another pacakge I want put in universe
<cbx33> well two
<cbx33> one is mine
<cbx33>  the other ...isn't
<cbx33> but I'll get to that later
<LaserJock> grasynco?
<cbx33> that's one
<cbx33> the other is the midisport-firmware package from sourceforge
<cbx33> would be great for mucisians
<_ion> Amen to that.
<cbx33> _ion, you have a midisport?
<cbx33> I don;t know if there are redistribution issues
<cbx33> but I'll definitely look into it
<crimsun> err, debhelper's listed in both B-D and B-D-I :)
<crimsun> midisport-firmware-0606251930/
<_ion> cbx33: I just installed the firmware uploader to a friend's computer a few days ago. :-) Personally i use pure hardware for making music, not software.
<crimsun> upid=2505
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> right nn all
<crimsun> err
<crimsun> I was reviewing that one
<crimsun> oh well
<zul> hey
<_ion> Bono estente.
<_ion> ajmitch: Online?
<ajmitch> partly
<_ion> ajmitch: Have you noticed the patch i posted to bug #36531?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 36531 in f-spot "f-spot-screensaver and gnome-screensaver don't mix" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/36531
<ajmitch> yes, and I'd already made that change locally
<ajmitch> thanks anyway
<_ion> Nice, thanks.
<zul> this is annoying
<zul> anyone have a work around for the fonts fixed mess in edgy?
<crimsun> well, you could just use non-ttf fonts  </ducks>
<crimsun> err, non-ttf
<crimsun> yay redundancy
<zul> why i outta...:)
<_ion> RAID-1 for IRC, yay.
<_ion> RAID-1 for IRC, yay.
<teferra> In rosetta if a translation team has not given a contact e-mail adress a message sent to the team is sent to all members. What is the adress of the team or where one sends the message then??ubuntu-l10n-ln@launchpad.net?
<LaserJock> darn, sometimes the internet just bites
<imbrandon> lol
<LaserJock> my father-in-law got scammed out of $4000 his first time on Ebay :(
<imbrandon> damm
<LaserJock> poor guy
<imbrandon> no buyer protection ?
<LaserJock> apparently somebody sent an email scam off of something he was bidding on (a truck)
<LaserJock> so it *looked* like Ebay
<imbrandon> ouch
<zul> ouch
<zul> mental note dont trust the internet
<imbrandon> heh
<LaserJock> so he bid and the seller had a good rating and everything
<LaserJock> and he was outbid
<LaserJock> but then he got an email, supposedly from the seller, saying that the winner had backed out and so he was the new winner
<LaserJock> they sent Ebay forms and all kinds of stuff
<LaserJock> sounds pretty involved
<imbrandon> oh damn yea
<imbrandon> i guess people will do anything for money
<zul> i wouldnt trust ebay
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: my fan before sounds nothing like how sick it sounds right now :P
<Hobbsee> hi all
<fowlduck> hi Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> anyone know how to have a pbuilder in a different architecture to the one you're building on?
* Hobbsee cant seem to see it in the documentation
<Hobbsee>        export DEBIAN_BUILDARCH=athlon
<Hobbsee>               Uses  this variable as DEBIAN_BUILDARCH.  This trick can be used
<Hobbsee>               for other environmental variables as well.
<Hobbsee> mayb
<Hobbsee> e
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: what arch do you have and what do you want?
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: amd64, i want to build stuff in i386 for breezy and dapper
<Hobbsee> well, the machine i'm building on is amd64, it's not mine :P
<FunnyLookinHat> Does anyone here speak german?
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: only a little, why?
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, I found someone who has created MythTV .19 dapper packages already, and it would save me a ton of wasted effort if he is willing to submit them to REVU
<FunnyLookinHat> But I think he speaks only german...
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: ah, my german would cover none of those topics.  and are the packages any good?
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, they are the packages that everone in #mythtv-users seem to suggest for ubuntu, and they all say they work great.  I am going to have a friend test them for me since I dont have my tv card anymore
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, he's created them correctly with all the right changelog formatting and stuff
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, http://hamsta.net/mythtv/files/dapper/
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: ah okay.  just because they "work" doesnt make them get into repositories as such
<FunnyLookinHat> that is his deb repo
* Hobbsee looks
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, I understand this.  But as it is ubuntu multiverse REALLY needs to get the new versiion of mythtv in there because it has a TON of changes and bug fixes
<FunnyLookinHat> lots of new features too
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: you can pass --arch i386 to debootstrap so I would think you would be able to do something in pbuilder
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: cool, okay
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: possibly  --debootstrapopts --arch i386
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/18054  It'll need a fair bit of work.
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, Myabe I should just build the packages from the start?
<Hobbsee> very interesting versioning, too
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: that's more painful, i'd take chunks of that current package, and fix it.
<LaserJock> well, take out the .svn and it isn't too bad ;-)
<Hobbsee> and version it properly, yeah
<FunnyLookinHat> Hobbsee, heh, well I guess I'll give it a try.   I have to go for now though.  Thanks for the info!
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: lintian is your friend.  lintian *.dsc
<crimsun> are you coordinating with MOTUMedia for mythtv?
<crimsun> i.e., join the LP team, etc.
<FunnyLookinHat> crimsun, Yea, I'm trying to get in contact with MOTUMedia - They really should be heading up where I take this
<FunnyLookinHat> I know it's a bad time to go looking around for people who are on the MOTUteam, hah.  Maybe tommorow : )
<Hobbsee> any MOTU's around?
<FunnyLookinHat> apparently not.  ; )
<Hobbsee> yeah, probably not
<rob> what about MOTUWannabes, do they count?
<FunnyLookinHat> I am holding off on my annoying questions till later
<FunnyLookinHat> LOL
<FunnyLookinHat> nice rob
<rob> :)
<Hobbsee> rob: no, not unless you have upload rights.
<rob> hehe
<rob> no
<Hobbsee> seeing as MOTU candidates dont either (bring on wednesday!)
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<Hobbsee> hey Toadstool!
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
<heretician> What is the package called that will automatically install all apps needed for Packaging?
<Hobbsee> heretician: apt-get build-dep foo?
<Hobbsee> heretician: oh...ah, build-essential devscripts lintian
<Hobbsee> just install them as you need them
<Hobbsee> pbuilder
<heretician> I wanted that package because it seemed to just plainly cover every one of them
<heretician> and/or install every one of them, but I have a fairly large HD so i'm okay
<Hobbsee> heretician: no you dont.
<Hobbsee> :P
<heretician> 1TB!?
<heretician> build-essential was correct, thanks. And I don't have 1TB, just over 80gb actually heh heh
<Hobbsee> like i say, you dont really want the entire archive on your machine
<Hobbsee> heretician: actually, i think if you apt-get build-dep openoffice.org on your machine, you get pretty close :P
<heretician> Time to learn Packaging :)
<Hobbsee> heretician: sounds good.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm. did someone here do the last amap upl9oad?
<Kamping_Kaiser> its kinda broken :|
<Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: define broken, and are you meaning for edgy?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, yes, edgy. broken meaning 'cant install because its looking for  website for updated fingerprints and cant find it'
<Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: ah.  fix it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, no, htats your job :P
<Hobbsee> Kamping_Kaiser: hah.  i've been fighting with pbuilder on a remote machine.  that's my job :)
* Hobbsee won.
<heretician> "Then proceed to look for the package using apt-cache tool." -- Any chance theres a guide on using the apt-cache tool, or is it really easy and that's why I got no explanation in this guide?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yay :)
<Hobbsee> s/pbuilder/multiple pbuilders
<Hobbsee> heretician: man apt-cache?  or apt-cache -h
<Hobbsee> heretician: options i use most are apt-cache search foo or apt-cache show foo
<heretician> Just says apt-cache :P
<heretician> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware
<Hobbsee> heretician: apt-cache has many things it can do - so if it says apt-cache, see all of it
<heretician> I guess it's talking about apt-cache search
<Hobbsee> i'd say so
<heretician> sudo apt-get build-dep <package> - will that also show the location of the dependencies installed on your system? Like if ya need to add those dependencies to the package.
<Hobbsee> heretician: er, it'll show you the ones that arent installed, and give you teh otpion to install them
<heretician> Even better :)
<Hobbsee> heretician: you'd have to look at debian/control in the source, or apt-cache show foo, to get all the dependancies it wants to build
<StevenK> apt-cache showsrc foo to get the Build-Depends
<Kamping_Kaiser> bug 53041 fwiw
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53041 in amap "fails install trying to connect to unknown host" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53041
<Hobbsee> StevenK: ah, is that it.  i'll have to remember htat
<heretician> Yall wouldnt mind if I keep my packaging-related questions directed to this channel instead of #ubuntu would you? Ubuntu seems to be already too filled up with.. everything else.
<Hobbsee> heretician: yeah, that's what this is here for.  mostly.
<Hobbsee> well, it's more repo packaging than general packaging, but it's otherwise quiet
<heretician> After I learn general packaging, i'll be moving on to repo packaging ;)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<heretician> "Another technique to determine which package to use is using the auto-apt tool or the apt-file tool (auto-apt might be faster)."
<heretician> By any chance could that be translated into more.. plain english
<heretician> it just jumped from needing build-dependencies installed in the package, to needing packages installed in the package
<phanatic> morning
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> heretician: auto-apt can get things wrong.
<heretician> er
<heretician> I'll delete it then :P
<heretician> What about checkinstall?
<Hobbsee> heretician: checkinstall is Very Evil (tm)
<heretician> :(
<heretician> It looked helpful too
<heretician> dernit
<Hobbsee> it's not.
<Hobbsee> well, itis, partially.
<Hobbsee> it's still evil.
<heretician> ha
<heretician> point made then
<Hobbsee> mainly because of the wya it's used.
<Arbiter> ooowww don't talk about checkinstall or alien
<heretician> instead of sodu make you will be using sudo checkinstall, the package can be easily removed now with sudo dpkg -r packagename or by synaptic
* Hobbsee shudders.  dont mention those two in the same sentence!
* Arbiter feels sick
* Hobbsee makes a mental note to slaughter whoever fixed checkinstall.  the segfault was so good!
<Arbiter> let's see if the REVU keyring was refreshed
<Arbiter> ;)
<Hobbsee> heretician: yeah, it is good for that - for your own system.  but most people try to distribute them, and then they become Highly Evil (tm), and Ought To Be Shot (tm)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: did you add yourself to the group in the topic?
<Arbiter> yeah
<Hobbsee> nixternal: you probably want to get yourself added to that keyring for revu, btw
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: cool :)
<nixternal> teach me ol' wise one ;)
<Arbiter> Lorenzo Villani is a member of:
<Arbiter>     * Contributors of packages for ubuntu universe (Approved)
<Arbiter> ;)
<heretician> Well, i'm doing this while having the ubuntu community in mind, not my own system
<heretician> baleted
<Hobbsee> heretician: hehe
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: nice :)
<Hobbsee> nixternal: check out w.u.c/REVU
<nixternal> ty
* Hobbsee considers what to work on next.
* heretician considers what to work on first.
<heretician> uh oh
<heretician> synaptic cant find checkinstall
<Hobbsee> heretician: did you comment out all of your sources list, by any chance?
<Hobbsee> !info checkinstall
<ubotu> checkinstall: installation tracker. In repository universe, is optional. Version 1.5.3-3ubuntu2 (dapper), package size 34 kB, installed size 132 kB
<Hobbsee> or not have universe added?
<heretician> er
<heretician> dont know what you mean hehe..
<heretician> but, i have it checked to read ALL repositories
<heretician> universe is added
<Arbiter> cool feature ubotu
<Arbiter> !info smartpm
<ubotu> smartpm: An alternative package manager that works with dpkg/rpm. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.41-0ubuntu3 (dapper), package size 397 kB, installed size 2148 kB
<Arbiter> ha! cool :D
<heretician> smartpm.. sounds crappy
<heretician> and dumb, but i just gathered that one from the name
* heretician hopes he was write about Arbiter being somehow affiliated with smartpm :P
<heretician> write = right
<Arbiter> heretician, i'm a smartpm tester :D
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: nice :)
<Hobbsee> ah, i know what i should do, i should fix my wiki page up
<Arbiter> i also made a splitted package (smartpm, smartpm-gtk)
<heretician> Oh... I was thinking more of smartpm developer-- my luck :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<heretician> apt-cache definitely cant be used to remove packages.
<heretician> Which apt is?
<Gloubiboulga> apt-get remove <package>
<Arbiter> better with --purge :P
<heretician> and with sudo
<heretician> :/
<heretician> Guess i should get used to using sudo behind everything though
* Arbiter loves sudo
<Hobbsee> heretician: well, behind the stuff that needs it
<Hobbsee> heretician: for stuff that you're using a lot of sudo for, you can use sudo -s or sudo -i
<heretician> Its morseso having to type in my password that is annoying me. I dont use numkeys(habit) and my password for Ubuntu is all numbers ;(
<heretician> And I make a quick mental note of wether i typed it in correctly by looking at how many asterisks are there
<Hobbsee> heretician: heh, true
<heretician> or.. big black blobs
<Hobbsee> hehe
<heretician> would "sudo apt-file install autoconf" be a working command?
<Hobbsee> heretician: ah, try it?
* Hobbsee wonders what apt-file does.
<heretician> Guide says its identical to apt-auto
<Hobbsee> hmmm okay
<Arbiter> ha! the keyring was refreshed!
<heretician> ...
* Hobbsee doesnt use that either.
<heretician> What are you using Hobbsee?
<heretician> And are you a member of MOTU?
<Hobbsee> heretician: i'm going for motu on wednesday, i do a fair bit of kubuntu packaging
<heretician> kubuntu has something different than apt-file i guess?
<heretician> and good luck :)
<Hobbsee> well, i use a pbuilder, so it automatically finds if i dont have the build-deps, and if they're listed in debian/control they're automatically installed
<Hobbsee> thanks.
* Hobbsee is going nuts without upload rights.
<Hobbsee> no, apt-file will run on any *ubuntu system, or debian
<heretician> Should I use it aswell.. I'm going to be packaging alot, after I learn how completely?
<Arbiter> Hobbsee, dont forget about RPM-based system with apt4rpm :P
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: i've never used that.
<Hobbsee> i never want to.
<Arbiter> hehehe
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, the TB is not on tuesday?
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: your tuesday.
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: my 6am wednesday.
<Gloubiboulga> ah ok :)
<heretician> i read a guide a few days about and it was for "Those so new to Ubuntu they don't know the difference between apt and rpm" -- i still dont :?
<Gloubiboulga> ouch, it's at 8pm for me
* heretician goes to check and see what pbuilder is
<Hobbsee> !pbuilder > heretician
<Arbiter> :>
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: yeah, ouch.  i'm *not* a morning person
<heretician> seems
<heretician> complex
<heretician> every guide i read seems to make me have to read another guide
<heretician> Time to find out how to use the chroot image, for pbuilder...
<Toadstool> hi Gloubiboulga :)
<Gloubiboulga> hello Toadstool :)
<Hobbsee> heretician: haha.  check out debian maintainers guide if you get bored one day.  but guides are great - they beat no guides at all.
<heretician> pbuilder seems to be something that a packager couldnt live without so far hehe
<heretician> debian maintainers guide .... i think i have that on my todo list
<heretician> im just reading guides given to me to read by LaserJock hehe
<Hobbsee> heretician: some weird people like using chroots, but after you install deps in the chroot, it's not clean anymore, so how do you know if you need to add more packages to the next package you do?
<Hobbsee> hehe, sounds good to me
* Hobbsee has never read the full debian maintainers guide
<heretician> er
* Hobbsee uses sections of it
<heretician> i figured chroot was always-clean
<heretician> or atleast you could reclean it
<Hobbsee> heretician: that's pbuilder, being always clean.
<Hobbsee> bleh.  can be recleaned, but very painful
* Hobbsee hates chroots
<heretician> okies
<heretician> pbuilder has became 50% less useful then
<Hobbsee> haha
<Toadstool> Gloubiboulga: TB at 8pm? according to the schedule on #u-meeting it's at 10pm...
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: dont joke with me like that
<heretician>  pbuilder create  will create a base chroot image. The distribution code-name needs to be specified with the --distribution  command-line option. Usually, "sid" is used, and the default is now sid.  - couldnt this be used over and over again?
* Hobbsee kicks Toadstool 
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: 2200 is 10pm, 2000 is 8pm.
<Arbiter> lol
* Hobbsee mutters about mean and nasty Toadstools giving her the hope of not needing to get up so early on wednesday, only to be wrong.
<Arbiter> why the hell Xgl doesn't work? i want the cube effect XD
<Gloubiboulga> Toadstool, ah yes, 20UTC...
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: UTC yeah, Paris -> UTC+2
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: true, thought you were referring to UTC time
<Toadstool> no :)
* Arbiter starts the daily dist-upgrade for edgy...
<NthDegree> what's edgy like right now?
<Hobbsee> NthDegree: broken.
<NthDegree> still broken :|
<Gloubiboulga> but usable
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: shhh :P
<Gloubiboulga> with Xfce, I don't know about gnome/kde
<Hobbsee> kde some stuff's broken, iirc
<Hobbsee> they might have fixed gnome
<Gloubiboulga> but you're used to a broken kde, aren't you ? :p
<Toadstool> oops... my finger slipped on the ubuntu-dev "join the team" link... :P
* Gloubiboulga runs, very fast
<Gloubiboulga> yeah \o/
<Toadstool> :)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: hah.
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: not that broken.
<Gloubiboulga> :)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: for that, you can ack a sync for me, thanks :P
<Toadstool> heh
<Hobbsee> i'd just better check that it will actually sync first :P
<Gloubiboulga> if its name doesn't start with k that's ok
<Gloubiboulga> ;)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: haha, actually it doesnt
<Hobbsee> it starts with an f
<Gloubiboulga> ok, I'll do it then
<Hobbsee> hehe
* Hobbsee should have run this ssh thru screen again :(
<heretician> Lets say someone does not have a ./configure installed in their package, and nothing about it in their README.. sudo apt-get install autoconf would definitely not work alone, so do i need to add the package name at the end?
<heretician> Or something else?
<Gloubiboulga> heretician, I think I don't clearly understand what you want to do
<heretician> create a configure file
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: add autoconf to build-deps, i think.  please explain it, as i'm stuck with that atm too
<Toadstool> grah, python-gnome2-extras still not installable... I can't test gnome-sudoku
<Gloubiboulga> heretician, you want to create the configure file for a package or for a software of yours?
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: maybe install ksudoku instead?
* Hobbsee runs
<heretician> For a package
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: tss :)
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: what's the extended form of that?
<Gloubiboulga> heretician, if it uses the autotools but the configure is not generated yet, you'll have to generate it in debian/rules
<Gloubiboulga> and as Hobbsee said, you'll need to build-depend on autoconf & co to make this work
<heretician> Says I have to look for config.ac
<heretician> er configure.gc
<heretician> ac
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: hwo do you generate it in debian/rules?
* Hobbsee tries to avoid new packages like the plague
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, by calling ./autogen.sh ? :)
<heretician> autoconf?
<heretician> well
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: ahhhh...right.
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: what's the syntax for that?  feel free to point me to documentation
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, hm, google? I don't know where you can find documentation
<heretician> basically what i was trying to avoid asking is something that is really making me misunderstand this entire guide-- some places it adds in the <package name> detail at the end of a command, and sometimes it doesnt. Im not sure if I should use those commands that it does not add <package name> at the end WITH or WITHOUT the package name at the end
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: a package with a similar situation, where i could grab the source would do :P
<heretician> like ./configure for example
<heretician> is it ./configure <variable> <package name> or just ./configure <variable>?
<Gloubiboulga> ah!
<Gloubiboulga> no need to add the <package name>
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, usually you don't find such packages
<heretician> what about for autoconf?
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: ah right
<Gloubiboulga> heretician, the same I guess
<heretician> Alrighty
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, except for svn/cvs snapshot, but in this case you generate yourself a nice tarball with a nice configure file
<Toadstool> Hobbsee: that was just an attempt to write some kind of "i-hate-kde" noise :P
<Hobbsee> Toadstool: ahh :P
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: right, okay
* Hobbsee found one.
<Gloubiboulga> which one?
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: kdocker or something - it's new
<Arbiter> i love making debian packages
<Arbiter> :>
<heretician> whats the command to list all build-depends needed for a certain package?
<Gloubiboulga> heretician, apt-cache can do that :)
<heretician> er, whats the full command for it?
<heretician> im creating a packaging tips rtf for myself hehe
<Toadstool> apt-cache showsrc package-name
<Toadstool> and look at the Build-Depends field
<Hobbsee> yay!  a sync1
<ogra> sync1 ?
<Hobbsee> s/1/!
<Toadstool> hi ogra
* Hobbsee throws ogra into /dev/null
* ogra wonders where he'll go now ...
<Hobbsee> hehe
<ogra> i always wondered where the stuff in /dev/null ends up finally :) ...
<Gloubiboulga> 'lost in /dev/null', directed by Sarah Hobb
<Gloubiboulga> s
<Gloubiboulga> it could be a cool geek movie
<heretician> lol
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/fityk/+bug/53044 please
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: hehe!
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53044 in fityk "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync fityk 0.7.4-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Confirmed] 
<pygi> Hobbsee, you can't put just anything in /dev/null...even it has its limits
<Hobbsee> pygi: :(
<ogra> pygi, really ? did you ever see it overflow ?
* NthDegree is happy now it is confirmed, hobbsee is a girl :)
<Hobbsee> NthDegree: heh.  yeah.  i always was :P
<pygi> ogra, not really, but oh well :)
<NthDegree> i think i'll take a 3 second sneak peek in #ubuntu-women when i'm unsure :p
<ogra> :)
* Hobbsee throws pygi into /dev/null too then
<Hobbsee> NthDegree: heh, i'm not in there
<NthDegree> why not?
* pygi evades
<ogra> Hobbsee, ouch, that was my head ....
<pygi> ogra, !!!
<Hobbsee> ogra: hehe.  you were supposed to throw him off you.
<pygi> Hobbsee, !!!
<Hobbsee> NthDegree: mainly cos it's full of men, and very quiet.
<Hobbsee> pygi: what?
<pygi> you trying to kill me or what??
<ogra> Hobbsee, like /dev/null ?
<NthDegree> you are kidding right lmao
<Hobbsee> pygi: i refrain to answer that question on the basis that it may incriminate me
<Hobbsee> NthDegree: no
<Hobbsee> ogra: of course.  actually, i more just like throwing people into it :P
<pygi> Hobbsee, !!!!
<ogra> haha
<pygi> I am afraid now :-/
* Hobbsee wonders what she was going to do now.
<Hobbsee> ogra: want to update my wiki page for me?
* Hobbsee wishes she didnt have to update the darned thing.
<heretician> So.. can the Ubuntu OS be generally left on longer than it would be safe to leave a windows OS'd box on?
<Hobbsee> heretician: yeah, hopefully
<heretician> Ill leave it on for about a week or two and see if it shows any similar results as to leaving my pc on when i had windows on it :p
<ogra> Hobbsee, where do you want to have "throwing men into /dev/null" ? under contributions or future palns ?
<Hobbsee> ogra: hehe!
<ogra> :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: the ones i really dont like get the death look
<ogra> whee
<Hobbsee> ogra: but i hope you'll never do anything to deserve that
* ogra hands Hobbsee very dark sunglasses
<Hobbsee> ogra: whatever for?
* Hobbsee already wears glasses.
* ogra hopes she dosnt see the superglue if she tries them :)
<Hobbsee> haha
<ogra> but honestly, what do you want to update it for ? -changes is talking for itself :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: dont i have to, to go for MOTU?
<Hobbsee> hehe that is true.  i think i'll link to there, hobbsee/+packages, a list of written bugs (ie, sync requests), and then turn up mostly asleep.
<ogra> well, when i led the motu we liked if people added their packages there, but still, during the meeting we counted uploads on -changes :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: hehe, true.
<ogra> so thats the real ressource ...
<Hobbsee> ogra: you could just get them to ack me now, and save me from a highly evil meeting time.
<ogra> your wikipage shows your documentary skills, not your packaing knowledge :)
<Hobbsee> which would let me do more uploads soon...
<Hobbsee> ogra: that's also true.  actually, all it shows is how good you are at wiki code too, which isnt standard html
<ogra> i'm sure you'll get approved right away if you apply :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: i did.
<Hobbsee> ogra: it's just the meeting at 6am that'll be the fun part.
<ogra> heh
* Hobbsee will have to ask someone to give her a wakeup call or something.
<ogra> we'll send you StevenK :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: heh, he knows where i live anyway
<Hobbsee> ogra: feel like approving a sync, as Gloubiboulga hasnt seemed to do it yet?
<Gloubiboulga> Hobbsee, building the package
<ogra> i have no revu account ...
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: ah...right.
<Gloubiboulga> I'm sure you did, but...
<ogra> (i might have one, but if i have one i dont have the data)
<Hobbsee> Gloubiboulga: yeah, of course :P
* Hobbsee found ogra's account, a while ago, actually
<Hobbsee> i think
<ogra> i have shell access ... but even that data is somewhere hidden in one of my broken laptops ...
<Hobbsee> heh
<heretician> does just "make foo" work or will it need "./configure make foo" ?
<Hobbsee> ogra: https://launchpad.net/people/?name=ogra&searchfor=all <-- looks like you have many
<Hobbsee> ogra: https://launchpad.net/people/ogra looks to be you
<ogra> yeah ...
<ogra> i dont have accounts with 0 karma :)
<Hobbsee> ogra: they dont have a "recover p/w" function on it?
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> me neither :P
<heretician> I do ;/
<Hobbsee> only 6098 karma.  shame.
<heretician> My only account infact.. Is there a reason for having multiple accounts?
<heretician> That i missed..
<pygi> heretician, nop ^_^
<ogra> you could take over kscreensaver ... that would give you 1000 extra karma points for crazyness :)
<pygi> !!!
<ubotu> I know nothing about !! - try searching http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi?db=ubuntu
<heretician> Are karma points automatically given?
<ogra> yes, based on your actions
<heretician> i mean like
<Hobbsee> ogra: heh.  actually, i met the maintainer of that one night, but i was really really sick, and his bank account had had something strange done to it, and i never saw it again
<heretician> automatically rewarded
<heretician> not by somebody, but by a script
<ogra> heretician, https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+karma
<heretician> Ahh, cool
<heretician> does just "make foo" work or will it need "./configure make foo" ?
<Hobbsee> and then it went quiet.
<Gloubiboulga> yes, time to leave for me
<Gloubiboulga> cu
<Arbiter> re
<Arbiter> "Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance in 14 minutes." oh noooo :P
<heretician> You got on just for that didn't you? :P
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: where'd you see that?  LP itself?
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic
<phanatic> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, i see...
<Arbiter> Hobbsee, yeah
<Arbiter> Hobbsee, are you a MOTU?
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: i didnt see anyone come and annouce it in -devel, which is where we usually see it first
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: i will be after wednesday.
<Arbiter> cool :D
<Hobbsee> :)
<Arbiter> <-- lunch
<Arbiter> l8r
<Hobbsee> cya!
<phanatic> Hobbsee: you're going for -dev? nice to hear :)
<Hobbsee> phanatic: not core.  just MOTU (for the moment, at least)
<StevenK> Which is -dev, yes.
<phanatic> indeed :)
<StevenK> -core-dev is the inner sanctum as it were.
<Hobbsee> yeah, true
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> phanatic: figured i was bugging other people too much and stopping them from doing their dev stuff, cos they were having to do a lot of uploads for me.
<phanatic> Hobbsee: :) you deserve a place in the -dev team, that's sure...
<Hobbsee> phanatic: thanks :)
<Hobbsee> for the vote of confidence
<Hobbsee> phanatic: you think i'll get eaten at the meeting?
<phanatic> Hobbsee: seeing the work you've done, i doubt it :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> phanatic: i finally dont have to build on my laptop anymore - i have ssh access to a better machine now :)
<phanatic> Hobbsee: that's great :) oh, i still use my lappy, but i only build my packages + revu ones for reviewing :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> true
<StevenK> You don't stop from doing my own -dev work.
<StevenK> Er, add a Hobbsee: at the front
<Hobbsee> StevenK: it feels like it though
<phanatic> :)
* Hobbsee jumps to the front
<StevenK> Which front?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: any of them?  i was meaning the adding hobbsee at the front
<StevenK> Heh
<Arbiter> re
<Sp4rKy> hi
<Sp4rKy> is there anyone here which have the mail adress daemon @ poleboy.de please ?
<Sp4rKy> because he doesn't advocated my package "planfacile"
<Sp4rKy> he said some file always exists but they doesn't seems to exist
<ogra> Sp4rKy, thats sistpoty
<Sp4rKy> thx
<Sp4rKy> but he isn't here
<nixternal> hrmm..i uploaded 'kflickr-0.6' about 7 hours ago and i don't see it on REVU
<Laser_away> sweet, numpy is in
<Laser_away> great! I just found that the upstreams of both packages I maintain in Debian put out new releases without telling me :/
<Laser_away> I guess it's time for watch files :-)
<nixternal> lol
<ogra> subscribing to their mailing list doesnt help ?
<ogra> ;)
<_ion> laser: See uscan(1), uupdate(1)
<_ion> Whoops, i misread your second line.
<Laser_away> ogra: mailing lists? what mailing lists?
<ogra> they dont haven one ?
<ogra> wow ... that must be a tiny project :)
<Laser_away> 2 of them
<Laser_away> us scientists don't need fancy development tools like mailing lists, or CVS for that matter
<Laser_away> but I was in fairly good communication with the authors
<_ion> "fancy" and "CVS" in the same sentence?
<Laser_away> but since nothing happened for a while I guess they forgot about me
<Laser_away> yep
<Laser_away> my boss always thought RCS in emacs was fine
<Laser_away> but I won't get into the "Why scientists shouldn't be allowed to develop software" discussion ;-)
<mukund> computation is a necessary portion of almost every scientific field now
<Laser_away> so true
<Laser_away> in my department however, with the exception of a few "weirdos" like myself, everyone tries to avoid computers as much as possible
<Laser_away> anyway, /me goes away again
<FunnyLookinHat> oh man busy day in #ubuntu for support  : )
<FunnyLookinHat> i'm never gonna learn to create packages, lol
<ogra> learn the basics and start supporting beginners in #ubuntu-motu ;)
<FunnyLookinHat> oh i'm trying, believe me   : )
<Arbiter> debian packaging is a pleasant experience :D
<FunnyLookinHat> holy crap it sucks!
<FunnyLookinHat> I built my pbuilder env and all that jazz, then I got lost when it started referencing .dsc files, because none exists even after compiling something from source
<tseng> a dsc file has nothing to do with "compiling from source"
<FunnyLookinHat> thus my confusion began  : )
* Arbiter loves making debian packages :)
<FunnyLookinHat> I'll have to work through the tutorial again a little later today, I have to rebuild my file server right now   >_<
<cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, i am also in a learning curve..but i think dh_make and debuild should help you
<FunnyLookinHat> cypher1, i'll make a note of those two tools, thanks  : )
<cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, See 3.2 in Packaging Guide
<FunnyLookinHat> rgr  : )
<cypher1> is there anything special i have to do for packaging X applications using pbuilder ?
<cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, what are you building ?
<nixternal> E: lyx_1.4.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes: bad-distribution-in-chages-file edgy
<nixternal> ^^ ignorable or no?
* nixternal can't remember
<FunnyLookinHat> cypher1, MythTV .19  : )
<cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, X based ?
<FunnyLookinHat> cypher1, um...  maybe?  I don't know, it has a lot of GUI so it probably is
<FunnyLookinHat> Should i be afriad?
<cypher1> FunnyLookinHat, no i just asked
<theturtlemoves> hey, i was thinking of getting involved - is this the best place?
<crimsun> nixternal: yes, it's ignorable.
<nixternal> ty sir 
<theturtlemoves> i've got very limited programming experience, but i'm reasonably good at generally tinkering around, and i learn quickly
<nixternal> crimsun: is it possible for you to look over my lyx packaging i did, and provide some constructive criticism?
<crimsun> theturtlemoves: sure, this is a good place. Also see #ubuntu-bugs.
<theturtlemoves> crimsun: so what sort of involvement would you suggest?
<crimsun> theturtlemoves: there's also #ubuntu-doc if you'd like to get into describing things better.
<crimsun> theturtlemoves: depends on your interests, really. Do you like writing? -> #ubuntu-doc. Do you like packaging new software or maintaining currently packaged software? See wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU . Do you like fixing bugs? -> #ubuntu-bugs.
<nixternal> #ubuntu-nun if you are interested in mentoring 
<crimsun> nixternal: ~10 mins, need to dig into e-mail backlog
<nixternal> no problem crimsun
<nixternal> http://www.buntudot.org/people/~nixternal/packages/lyx-1.4.2/
<nixternal> there is a link..take your time
<nixternal> im here all day 
<theturtlemoves> crimsun: thanks - i guess i'd better figure out where i'd be most productive
<crimsun> theturtlemoves: dig into them all
<crimsun> theturtlemoves: there are so many ways to contribute that you're bound to find a niche or three
<nixternal> source-contains-cvs-conflict-copy admin/.#acinclude.m4.in.2.483    484    and    485
<cypher1> how do i install X includes in pbuilder environment ??
<crimsun> cypher1: they should be in debian/control:Build-Depends
<crimsun> cypher1: or did you login?
<cypher1> crimsun, i tried login
<crimsun> cypher1: apt-get install libx11-dev [..]    then
<crimsun> note that's only sufficient in some cases
<cypher1> crimsun, should i do apt-get inside the pbuilder login ?
<crimsun> yes
<cypher1> so base.tgz will be updated with that ?
<crimsun> no.
<crimsun> well, did it already have the deb cached?
<crimsun> (pretty easy to tell. If it did, then you won't download anyting, and it'll just install)
<cypher1> did apt-get
<cypher1> so i have to come out of the login and try pbuilder again ?
<crimsun> cypher1: I'm confused why you chose to pbuilder login then apt-get from within it.
<cypher1> sorry i thought thats what you had mentioned
<cypher1> arghhh lot of problems with pbuilder
<cypher1> will try tomorow
<cypher1> gtg sleep
<cypher1> bye all
<crimsun> 'bye
<cypher1> crimsun, thanks for the help
<cypher1> bey
<LaserJock> hi raphink
<raphink> hi LaserJock :)
<LaserJock> hi Kyral
<Kyral> hello
<Kyral> Damn its hot in here
<LaserJock> how bad? it's 85 F inside here
<crimsun> it's 65F here :-)
<Kyral> Current weather for Massena, Massena International-Richards Field : Retrieving weather data..., Temperature: , Pressure: , Wind:
<Kyral> Current weather for Fort Drum / Wheeler-Sack U. S. Army Airfield : The network is currently offline..., Few clouds at 3500 feet, Temperature: 73.4F, Pressure: 29.87" Hg, Wind: 4 MPH
<ogra> its night and oly 25C
<Kyral> Okay
<ogra> *only
<Kyral> it FEELS hot :P
<LaserJock> hmm, it's 100 F outside here
<Kyral> Might be me though, I work up a sweat during good gaming periods
<Kyral> Like today :D
<LaserJock> hi danny
<crimsun> (it's time for LaserJock to test his new backporting plans for the PG!)
<danny> moin moin, i just searching for a backport of grsync
<LaserJock> yes, I was just thinking that
<ogra> heh
<LaserJock> danny: so edgy has the version you want?
<danny> ok... for slow people... this means I need to add edgy to my sources.list? doesn't sound like a good idea over all
<LaserJock> no, don't do that
<danny> good... but what then?
<LaserJock> !info grsync edgy
<ubotu> grsync: GTK+ frontend for rsync. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.4.3-2 (edgy), package size 44 kB, installed size 244 kB
<LaserJock> danny: basically, you want to take the source package from edgy and rebuild the .deb for you, on dapper
<danny> is this a shell command? - !info grsync edgy
<LaserJock> it's a bot we have in this channel
<danny> yes this sounds like the thing to do
<LaserJock> so first you need to grab the source package
<danny> :-) where and how?
<LaserJock> you could add edgy deb-src lines in sources.list but that is overkill for just one package
<LaserJock> instead head over to Launchpad
<danny> https://launchpad.net ?
<LaserJock> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/grsync
<LaserJock> that is the LP page for the grsync package
<LaserJock> click on the version you want ( 0.4.3-2 )
<ogra> click on the version you want from the list :)
<ogra> heh
<danny> for beginners: LP page means what?
<LaserJock> LP = launchpad
* ogra shuts up and lets LaserJock better go on :)
<tseng> isnt there a doc for all this
<danny> ok
<LaserJock> tseng: probably, I think there is some backporting info on the wiki, but I want to make sure he's got it
<LaserJock> tseng: and I need to document this in the Packaging Guide as well
<tseng> LaserJock: yes.
<ogra> tseng, wil make a good addition :)
<ogra> *will
<danny> there are three files... do I need the tar.gz?
<LaserJock> danny: down towards the bottom you see Download, right?
<LaserJock> you need all three
<LaserJock> they make up the source package
<danny> no
<danny> ok all three
<LaserJock> just grab all 3 files- .dsc (the description file) .orig.tar.gz (the original source code from the author) and the .diff.gz (holds the diff that contains Debian/Ubuntu packaging info)
<LaserJock> put them in a directory, lets say ~/grsync
<danny> done
<LaserJock> danny: ok so go into ~/grsync and do dpkg-source -x *.dsc
<LaserJock> that will unpack the source (.orig.tar.gz) and apply the diff (from .diff.gz)
<LaserJock> danny: do you know anything about pbuilders or chroots?
<danny> ok, that was easy
<danny> have read the packing guide but dont understand all... chrooting into gentoo was cool.... thats anything I know about that... I'm very new to linux specific development processes....
<LaserJock> ok, well we won't worry about that for now
<LaserJock> normally it is cleaner (and better) to build the .debs in a chrooted environment
<danny> hey, but I like to learn this stuff....
<Heretician> I'm back to stage one with having problems with Ubuntu again.. Seems what I thought was a temporary problem during installation, turned out to be the backbone of my GUI ;/
<LaserJock> danny: now what you need to do is get all the packages that grsync needs to build
<LaserJock> danny: you can do that by sudo apt-get builddep grsync
<LaserJock> opps, that should be build-dep
<danny> seems everything was there
<LaserJock> ok, now check and see if you have the devscripts package installed
<danny> you can memorise the command ?
<LaserJock> what command?
<danny> ok just thought you know the apt command.... will check with synaptics... thats still faster than reading the manpage
<LaserJock> danny: for devscripts?
<LaserJock> just do sudo apt-get install devscripts
<LaserJock> or dpkg -l | grep devscripts if you want
<danny> is now installed
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> so what directory are you in now?
<danny> in any directory you want me to be :-) just kidding ~/grsync
<LaserJock> ok so cd to grsync-0.4.3
<danny> jepp
<LaserJock> run debuild -us -uc
<danny> what are the options for?
<danny> finished
<LaserJock> they make it so files aren't digitally signed
<LaserJock> ok now go up cd ../
<danny> right - that only needed if published in the internet?
<LaserJock> right
<danny> smile - now there is a deb file
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> so you can install it with dpkg -i *.deb
<ogra> or doubleclick it and let gdebi do the work ;)
<danny> let me gess... this installs yust as any other deb file?
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> yeah gdebi is really nice because it will grab the dependencies if you need them
<LaserJock> in this case you should be set though
<danny> does this first remove the grsync 0.1.2 files?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> you have succesfully upgraded grsync to 0.4.3
* ogra applauds
<danny> ok I try... nice gdebi reminds me on windows... do you want to do that? yes! really? yes....
<danny> ok the programm works! thanks. learned a lot for this late hour
<LaserJock> now, this worked really nicely because we didn't have to change anything to get it to work
<LaserJock> we just had to recompile it on Dapper
<LaserJock> programs like that are good backports candidates
<danny> I know.... but the programm itself is simple.... maybe we should try let say Open Office by tomorrow?
<LaserJock> haha, you're welcom to try that if you want
<ogra> danny, its not everywhere such a late hour ;)
<LaserJock> what time is it over there ogra?
<ogra> even though i agree, its late in germany :)
<ogra> 11:40pm
<LaserJock> it's early afternoon here
<ogra> heh
<danny> not really... just like to fix some missing things (perhaps I learn enougth to do it myself) - and perhaps one of my projects will ever come to a state to release it to the public...
<danny> well.... we in central europe have "real time" here :-) Its dark in Greenwich, so its night by definition, or?
<danny> so where are you guys from?
<LaserJock> I'm in the US
<LaserJock> bah, how do I get dpkg --compare-versions to spit stuff out
<danny> oh... please don't say you have voted for bush...
<LaserJock> danny: we generally avoid politics in here. it makes for a better working environment :-)
* ogra sits in kassel and has to drive to the eifel tonight
<danny> sorry... just still crying about the estimated 20.000.000 Euros we germans have to charge for the visit of this man....
<danny> to orga: Also dann verstehst des?
<danny> back to grsync... what must be done to the package, so the programm integrates into the gnome menue like the other programms when installing?
<ogra> danny, sicher doch :)
<ogra> danny, if the package ships a menu entry you can enable it in the menu editor
<ogra> if not, you can create ne wiht it :)
<danny> schee....back to English speaking mode?
<ogra> ist n englischer channel :)
<danny> i know
* LaserJock really needs to start learning German again
<ogra> so if i tell you crap the others can correct me if they understand what i write :)
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> danny: the program needs a .desktop files (usually found in /usr/share/applications/) to show up in the menu
<danny> well its a bit more complex than english... but much saner than french!
<ogra> ++
<LaserJock> I like it from what little I've done so far
<danny> yes, its allways fun to read books in their original language...
<danny> no grsync.desktop file
#ubuntu-motu 2006-07-16
<fowlduck> i wanna make me a new version of ubuntu
<danny> seems I missed something. there is a menue entry.... in the internet tools section...
<danny> hmm, think I work a bit on my own code.... bye
<fowlduck> hey, how does someone go about starting a new version of ubuntu?  I mean, someone had to put together edubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu, so there has to be a method to this madness.
<LaserJock> more like lots of madness to the method ;-)
<LaserJock> fowlduck: you want to like customize the .isos?
<fowlduck> LaserJock, more than that, I want to customize what is installed during the install
<LaserJock> there are some wiki pages, but I don't know how far they go
<fowlduck> not far at all
<fowlduck> and they're for breezy
<fowlduck> how did the other people go about it?  there is such a barrier
<LaserJock> what do you mean by other people?
<sladen> fowlduck: define a meta-package that Depends on a bunch of stuff
<fowlduck> LaserJock, as in those that started Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Kubuntu
<sladen> fowlduck: they installed a bunch of packages and defined a meta-package that depended on them
<LaserJock> fowlduck: those projects use the Ubuntu infrastructure
<fowlduck> LaserJock, ok, so how would I go about getting access to this?  Or becoming an official project?
<fowlduck> sladen, but the installer
<sladen> fowlduck: start by defining a meta-package, get it sponsored into universe
<LaserJock> fowlduck: not sure, get the Technica Board or Mark to ok it perhaps
<sladen> fowlduck: the core-infrastructure is all the same
<fowlduck> sladen, hmmm, i'll have to get some more packages put into it
<sladen> fowlduck: what packages?
<LaserJock> meta-packages are by far easier to do
<fowlduck> like pyflag
<fowlduck> foremost
<fowlduck> scalpel
<fowlduck> mac-robber
<sladen> are those in Debian?
<fowlduck> nope
<sladen> ideally, the first step is to get them into Debian
<LaserJock> fowlduck: what kind of project are you trying to make?
<fowlduck> i had to package them myself for a program I wrote to customize ubuntu for computer forensics
<sladen> okay, so they're already packaged?
<fowlduck> LaserJock, computer forensics ubuntu
<LaserJock> oh yeah, I thought I'd heard of pyflag
<fowlduck> sladen, yes, I packaged them
<sladen> in that case, look at getting them uploaded to  revu
<LaserJock> I thought there was already a derivative thing for that
<fowlduck> LaserJock, I was the guy bothering you about packaging it this past spring break
<LaserJock> oh, ok
<LaserJock> now I get it
<LaserJock> :-)
<sladen> and then getting them sponsored by one of the MOTU into universe
<fowlduck> still the same guy :)
<fowlduck> I need to repackage them with a GPG key that I stick with
<sladen> and apply for MOTU at the same time so that you get upload priviligies
<sladen> fowlduck: *grin*, so you did manage to get them packaged! :)
<sladen> LaserJock: rock!  See, it's worth helping people, they might come back a few months later with nicely packaged stuff :)
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> fowlduck: the "offical" derivatives have to have their packages in Main
<LaserJock> your best bet is to get your packages in Universe and make a meta-package
<fowlduck> LaserJock, how do you mean?  I'mnot new to packaging but I am to REVU
<fowlduck> oh, ok
<fowlduck> but there is an issue
<fowlduck> see, to be forensically sound, automounting has to be turned off, all forms of it
<fowlduck> and that interferes with the settings of others
<LaserJock> once they are in the repos then it's possible to make a LiveCD with your tailored packages
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I'm not exactly sure the best way to get around that
<fowlduck> LaserJock, and how to make the installer customized?  one thing at a time?
<fowlduck> just get all this in so it's less of a leap?
<crimsun> from what level, though? In GNOME? Because there's no "automounting" at the cli or in X Window System.
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I was thinking you'd go with a different WM
<fowlduck> crimsun, the lowest possible
<fowlduck> naw, the current is fine
<crimsun> "the lowest possible"?
<fowlduck> crimsun, the lowest possible level of automounting
<fowlduck> crimsun, I can screw with gconf and gvm
<crimsun> that's just two gconf settings.
<fowlduck> crimsun, but if there is something lower it can cause tampering with evidence
<fowlduck> which makes it not forensically sound
<crimsun> fowlduck: all automounting is done by g-v-m
<fowlduck> which makes it all but useless
<fowlduck> crimsun, ahhhh, ok thanks
<crimsun> there's nothing lower (we don't include any kernel patches) in our default config
<fowlduck> ok, great
<fowlduck> ok, so install ubuntu and get packaging on here :)
<fowlduck> up until now I've been doing it in a VM
<fowlduck> hehe
<fowlduck> thanks for your help, I'll be back later ( crimsun and LaserJock )
<LaserJock> ok, cya
<fowlduck> oh, one more thing, packages should not install into /usr/local
<fowlduck> right?
<LaserJock> right
<fowlduck> ok, so where then?  /usr?
<crimsun> yes
<fowlduck> /usr/program/?
<crimsun> --prefix=/usr
<fowlduck> crimsun, two of those don't use a configure
<crimsun> that's fine, you can move them
<fowlduck> ok, so let them install there then use the rules file to move them?
<crimsun> /usr/local/ is reserved for local admin
<crimsun> no, modify their Makefiles to accept DESTDIR
<fowlduck> ok
<fowlduck> then use rules to specify the destdir
<crimsun> yes.
<fowlduck> in the make
<fowlduck> ok, thanks
<LaserJock> and politely ask upstream to adjust for DESTIDIR ;-)
<fowlduck> oh, and if a program only has one config file, should it only be in /etc?  I shouldn't make another directory under /etc to hold it?  ex: /etc/program/program.conf
<fowlduck> LaserJock, oh, ok
<fowlduck> LaserJock, although it may be in /usr/local for a reason, as these tools should probably only be run by root...I think
<crimsun> no, /usr/local/ on Debian systems is unconditionally not to be mucked with
<LaserJock> that has nothing to do with /usr/local
<fowlduck> oh, ok
<fowlduck> thanks
<LaserJock>  /usr/sbin/ might be the place then, not sure though
<fowlduck> kk
<crimsun> and I would say that /etc/somedir/ is cleaner
<crimsun> even if it is just that one file
<fowlduck> crimsun, I would think so, but I'd like to do it a standard way
<fowlduck> crimsun, whats worse is one wants to install its' config file in /usr/local/etc
<crimsun> Makefile hacking.
<fowlduck> you actually have to modify the source to change it too
<fowlduck> i wish it was just the makefile
<fowlduck> and I guess we're not supposed to modify the source too
<LaserJock> that's what patches are for
<fowlduck> hmm, so how does one make patches? (like a diff?)
<fowlduck> i mean, you can just point me to a program to do it or a link and i'll figure it out, i've already pestered you guys enough
<crimsun> something based on diff(1), yes
<LaserJock> boy, this really is "point out deficencies in the packaging guide" day :-)
<fowlduck> hehe
<fowlduck> it's all for the greater good
<fowlduck> think of it as "improving the packaging guide" day :)
<LaserJock> well, that needs more than a day
<LaserJock> :-)
<fowlduck> bit by bit, piece by piece
<fowlduck> so, what program can be used for patching?
<fowlduck> I'd like to get to this packaging
<fowlduck> ::::)      (<==A spider smiling)
<crimsun> patch(1)
<fowlduck> ok, thanks
<crimsun> to generate a unified diff, use something based on diff(1)
<fowlduck> unified diff?
<crimsun> it's a particular diff format
<fowlduck> ok
<fowlduck> which is what I need to submit this package or something?
<fowlduck> i'm confused
<fowlduck> hi
<crimsun> diff(1) is used to generate a line-by-line summary of differences between file{,s}
<crimsun> you can apply a file generated by diff(1) using patch(1)
<fowlduck> ok, so use diff to make the patch, how does this affect the packaging?
<LaserJock> you can include a patch to the source in your packaging
<fowlduck> is there an official way to do this?
* fowlduck busts out the packaging guide
<fowlduck> i need to buy that
<LaserJock> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-updating.html
<LaserJock> ^^ has a bit of info on dpatch
<fowlduck> ok thanks
<fowlduck> you guys are always so helpful crimsun, and LaserJock
<LaserJock> crimsun: btw, I talked to doko about python-central et. al. in B-D-I
<LaserJock> fowlduck: np
<fowlduck> thanks thanks, double-thanks
<crimsun> LaserJock: great. What was the resolution?
<fowlduck> so talk to you guys later
<LaserJock> crimsun: basically, put stuff you need for clean in B-D and the rest in B-D-I
<LaserJock> fowlduck: cya
<crimsun> LaserJock: ok, that's what I thought
<sander> Hello, does anyone here know how packages are added to edgy? rationale: gnome-hearts hit debian/unstable a few days ago and I like to see it in edgy and backport it to dapper
<LaserJock> sander: I don't think we are automatically grabing packages still
<LaserJock> so we would need to either request as sync if it builds fine on edgy or manually merge it
<LaserJock> backporting can be done once it's in edgy
<sander> pbuilder works fine on Ubuntu so a sync should work. Where do I request a sync?
<crimsun> it'll be synced in automatically.
<crimsun> it entered on the fifth of July, which was prior to UVF
<crimsun> just be patient
<crimsun> the buildds have days worth of building to do
<sander> still? I thought only packeges that were synced on edgy creation were auto-synced, not new packages after the big debian snapshot
<LaserJock> they have a script which tells them about new packages since they last synced
<crimsun> universe freeze isn't until late Sept
<crimsun> there's plenty of time remaining for sync
<crimsun> s
<LaserJock> I assumed they wouldn't be automatic after UVF
<crimsun> they're not, but this date falls prior to UVF
<sander> When is UVF then?
<crimsun> it was the thirteenth
<sander> hmmm....
<sander> gnome-hearts was uploaded the 5th. I should be okay then
<crimsun> keep in mind virtually nothing was buildable the past couple days.
<sander> and how about the edgy/main repository? What is the procedure for getting packages in there? Or is that selection already frozen?
<crimsun> UVF is already passed.
<crimsun> past.
<LaserJock> crimsun: are you sure it got in?
<crimsun> LaserJock: no, but it doesn't matter
<LaserJock> crimsun: I can't find it anywhere
<crimsun> it would be synced into universe, not into main
<LaserJock> right, but are you sure we are still autosyncing?
<crimsun> no, we're not afaik
<LaserJock> so wouldn't someone have to manually request a sync? or perhaps we just have to wait for Keybuck
<crimsun> I can't imagine we won't sync again at least once more
<LaserJock> yeah
<crimsun> you can request a sync into, sure, but I'm pretty sure it'll be redundant.
<sander> In case it doesn't appear in a couple of days, how can I request a sync?
<crimsun> file a bug against gnome-hearts, subscribe (don't assign to) ubuntu-archive
<LaserJock> he can't file a bug against gnome-hearts
<crimsun> right, which is why it's pointless
<LaserJock> but I think people have been just filing against ubuntu in those cases
<crimsun> wait, and you want to backport this into dapper-backports?
<crimsun> we're not allowed to introduce new packages
<sander> yeah, but that's extra. First I want Edgy sorted. Dapper is bonus :-)
<crimsun> dapper-backports is not valid in this case
<crimsun> edgy will be fine, since it can be synced in anytime between now and Sept 28th
<sander> Good, thanks. And after that I could request a backport for dapper? Which would go in dapper/universe or dapper/backports?
<crimsun> you can't request it into dapper.
<crimsun> that's what I was trying to explain.
<crimsun> gnome-hearts didn't exist in dapper when dapper was released, so it'd be a new package
<crimsun> we can't backport new packages
<sander> Ah, so backports only has edgy versions of dapper packages, right?
<crimsun> right.
<sander> Thanks. One more question if you don't mind: how is the edgy/main selected? Or was that done too at UVF?
<crimsun> what do you mean by "selected"?
<sander> Well, you guys select a subset of the debian repros for the edgy/main repro. The rest goes in edgy/universe or multiverse.
<sander> Or did I misunderstand?
<crimsun> slightly
<sander> ah....
<crimsun> main and restricted are supported; all other components aren't
<crimsun> so if something's in main, it has to have a darned good reason to be there
<crimsun> i.e., random new Debian package doesn't end up in main
<crimsun> it has to be a requirement/dependency of another main package
<crimsun> and even then it's not guaranteed
<sander> I understand. I saw talk of revising the list of games for edgy, hence my question
<crimsun> well it's a shoe-in for universe, but promoting it to main is much more difficult
<sander> That's what I thought. And I can't find documentation about that process (if there is a process to begin with)
<LaserJock> you have to write a Main inclusion report
<crimsun> yes, it's called promotion, and it's recorded via anastacia
<crimsun> right, you need to write up a "MIR"
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportBeecrypt  for an example
<crimsun> canonical instructions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
<sander> Thanks for that. Much reading to do :-)
<sander> What's the best place to see when my package gets synced into edgy? Currently I simply browse archive.ubuntu.com but I have a feeling there's a better place for that
<LaserJock> sander: hmm, there is the edgy-changes mailing list
<LaserJock> I think there is also an RSS feed somewhere
<sander> Found it. Thanks for the help. You too crimsun
<shawarma> Does anyone here have an amd64 box?
<shawarma> I'll be coming into possession of such a thing within a few days, but there's a few things I don't quite understand.
<Fujitsu> shawarma, I have experience with a couple.
<Fujitsu> shawarma, what do you wish to know?
<shawarma> Fujitsu: I'm just a little confused about the i386 compatibility thing.. Does it actually run stuff compiled for i386?
<Fujitsu> shawarma, if you install the i386 version, yes.
<shawarma> I'll be installing the amd64 version of course.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> You'll need a 32-bit chroot then, to run 32-bit apps.
<tseng> simple answer: you cant run 32-bit apps on 64-bit ubuntu
<shawarma> But a chroot will do?
<shawarma> I'm not into simple answers. :-)
<tseng> linux32 chroot myubuntu32chroot/
<tseng> works for simple things
<tseng> chroot gets complicated for running services or X etc
<shawarma> Because of chroot or because of amd64 vs. i386 stuff?
<tseng> because of chroot
<shawarma> Ok. I can handle that.
<shawarma> So the reason I need the chroot is to make the dynamic linker happy more easily?
<tseng> er
<tseng> not really.
<tseng> there are very few 32 bit libs in 64-bit ubuntu
<shawarma> I recently came into contact with a amd64 box running redhat. It had a bunch of i386 libs installed too.. What purpose would they serve?
<shawarma> tseng: Yes, I'd imagine.
<tseng> we have linux 32 libs for amd64 also
<shawarma> What I meant was: In a chroot, the linker won't see anything but i386 stuff and as such will not try to link things compiled for different archs.
<tseng> nothing sees anything outside the chroot
<tseng> its totally contained
<shawarma> Or is that handled by some other mechanism?
<shawarma> tseng: Yes, yes. I know.
<tseng> if you want to think of it in terms of the linker, fine.
<shawarma> Well... I suppose I'm looking for an answer to: "Why is the chroot needed?"
<tseng> its a complete set of libs, linker, compiler, apps
<tseng> for 32 bit
<tseng> a full system (minus kernel)
<shawarma> Yes, but the chroot only pertains to filesystems. It's still using the same kernel.
<tseng> you run linux32 chroot mydir/
<tseng> and the apps think you are using a 32 bit kernel
<tseng> the kernel can handle running 32 bit code
<shawarma> Ah... I see.
<tseng> and so can the cpu
<tseng> it is just a limitation in our 64 bit userland
<tseng> we dont have something called multilib
<tseng> look it up if you are really interested
<shawarma> Look up "multilib"?
<tseng> sure.
<shawarma> I will..
<shawarma> I think I understand now.
<tseng> cool
<shawarma> So i can just create a pbuilder for amd64 and one for i386 and not have to worry about cross compiling, qemu's or whatever? That's pretty neat.
<tseng> yeah it is
<Hobbsee> morning all
<shawarma> The dynamic linker confusion comes from the infamous redhat system I saw. It had both a lib64 and a lib dir so the two architectures' libs coexisted in the same filesystem. I just imagined it'd cause linker weirdness all the time.
<shawarma> On an Ubuntu amd64, is it also called /usr/lib64 or still just /usr/lib ?
<shawarma> Silly me. I actually have access to an amd64 system right now.. I'll just snoop around on that one.
<shawarma> tseng: Thanks a lot for your help!
<tseng> np
<shawarma> Hmm... On a standard Ubuntu amd64, the /usr/lib32 wouldn't be needed, right?
<shawarma> I'm just wondering why it's present on this system.. It's a plain vanilla webserver.
<Riddell> shawarma: openoffice will need it
<Riddell> and the directory will probably be made along with the bootstrapping
<shawarma> Riddell: Why would openoffice need it?
<shawarma> Riddell: Has it not been properly ported to amd64?
<shawarma> Riddell: I remember something about it actually having some assembler code in it to do some introspection stuff.. That might not be very easily ported..
<shawarma> Riddell: But yes, the directory might be created during the bootstrapping.
<Riddell> no, it's not been ported to amd64 except by fedora
<shawarma> Really? something we can't steal?
<shawarma> Riddell: You're in roughly the same timezone as I am... What's your excuse for being up this late?
<Riddell> noisy neighbours
<shawarma> ah. the average age of my neighbours is around 75.. They're very quiet this time of night. :-)
<shawarma> Oh, well. It's almost 4 am. I'm off to bed.
<shawarma> g'night guys!
<shawarma> ..and Hobbsee. :-)
<fowlduck> hallo again
<Laser_away> heretician: working on it :-)
<nixternal> Laser_away: help me..im retarded
<Laser_away> lol
<nixternal> i uploaded to 'revu' last night right...and now im trying to logon by doing the "request password" deal
<nixternal> i do it right..and it tells me to type in the decrypt line, and past the text below...there is no text below
<nixternal> wth is wrong with me?
<nixternal> as i am sure it isn't anything else but stoooooopid ol' me 
<Laser_away> no, I think it could be a problem
<Laser_away> you uploaded ok?
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> a few packages
<Laser_away> you package is on REVU?
<nixternal> 1 good 2 bad i thik 
<nixternal> i don't see it yet
<nixternal> almost 24 hours since i up'd it
<Laser_away> ok, but one worked anyway
<heretician> Laser_away: Cool hehe
<nixternal> on..all worked
<nixternal> im saying the packages were 1 good 2 bad 
<Laser_away> heh
<nixternal> or 1 good, 1 almost there, and 1 bad
<Laser_away> ok, so did you make sure to use the same email address as is in the changelog of your packages
<heretician> Should I be getting EasyUbuntu: For Developers: Bleeding Edge?
<Laser_away> no
<nixternal> yup
<nixternal> email address is correct
<Laser_away> are you in the ubuntu-universe-contributors LP team
<nixternal> yup
<Laser_away> hmm :(
<nixternal> hehe exactly
<Laser_away> I don't know why it wouldn't work
<nixternal> im sure crimsun will come along and go oh, you do this little thing here which is right in front of your face 
<nixternal> i gotta eat something
<nixternal> brb
<crimsun> no, actually it's the same thing I ran into some time gao
<crimsun> ago^
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> speak of the devil 
<crimsun> you need an admin to reset your pass
<nixternal> roger that..and one of the 4 or 5 admins listed on the REVU wiki
<nixternal> aj, \sh and such
<Laser_away> just email admin at tiber.tauware.de
<nixternal> thx Laser_away
<nixternal> i will do that
<nixternal> bbiaf
<Fujitsu> The wiki doesn't actually say how to get started in the whole Ubuntu packaging business... Any pointers?
<Laser_away> help.ubuntu.com
<Laser_away> click on go to the Packaging Guide
<Fujitsu> Well, I know how to package...
<Laser_away> bah, that was a messed up sentence
<Fujitsu> I mean, how to do something useful.
<Fujitsu> I have a fair amount of experience with debhelper...
<Laser_away> well, you can fix bugs or work on the Universe merge
<crimsun> yeah, why doesn't the PG give me a pony? huh? HUH?
<Laser_away> shesh, sorry
<Laser_away> maybe I'll throw in an ASCII art pony just for you crimsun
<Fujitsu> Oh, I assumed only proper MOTUs were working on the merge....
<Fujitsu> Hahahha.
<Fujitsu> Good idea.
<fowlduck> hi
<fowlduck> everyone
<Laser_away> Fujitsu: the general rule is, anything a MOTU can do you can do as well, you just need a MOTU to sponsor it
<Fujitsu> Ah. OK.
<crimsun> anyone seen Ming Hua lately?
<Laser_away> that's how you become a MOTU in the first place
<Laser_away> crimsun: no, unfortunately :(
<crimsun> those merges are sitting there
<Fujitsu> Laser_away, aha. That's what I thought.
<Laser_away> wow, I've got a lot more that list than I remember
<Laser_away> all of like 5 packages
<Laser_away> although I don't really want to claim tightvnc
<crimsun> you love that included XFree86 source, really, you do.
<Laser_away> noooooo
<Fujitsu> X must be the most lovely package to maintain.
<Fujitsu> 390 new merges... That's quite a few remaining.
<Laser_away> yep
* Fujitsu looks for a good package to start with that doesn't have too many Ubuntu-specific changes.
<Laser_away> Fujitsu: the Packaging Guide does have a section on merging ;-)
<Fujitsu> Laser_away, I noticed :)
<Laser_away> and you left #ubuntu-science, don't you like us any more ;-)
<Fujitsu> No, I had too many channels.
<Fujitsu> I joined #ubuntu-motu-school instead.
<Fujitsu> Stupid 20 channel limit.
<Laser_away> probably not as many as crimsun
<Fujitsu> I have to switch between a few.
<Laser_away> doh, I'm going to need to add -school back in too
<Fujitsu> Any ideas on why that limit is in place?
<Laser_away> I wasn't aware of a limit
<Fujitsu> So, should I just pick a package?
<Fujitsu> Laser_away, there's a limit of 20 channels.
<Laser_away> though I never go much beyond 10-15 myself
<Fujitsu> And I have been hitting it for months.
<Laser_away> Fujitsu: yeah, look for one where the diffs aren't huge
<Fujitsu> Yeah, I shall.
<Fujitsu> I do like that easier-motuing spec. A very good idea.
<Laser_away> we hope so
<Laser_away> if you want any easy one space-orbit is one of mine that looks easy
<Laser_away> ok, I really have to be away now
<Laser_away> my "doing the finances" has turned into "hang out on irc"
<Fujitsu> Bye.
<Fujitsu> OK, I'll look at space-orbit.
<Fujitsu> Thanks :D
<fowlduck> hmm, are there any instructions on signing packages?
<fowlduck> on how to use it with revu and whatnot?
<crimsun> debsign(1)
<fowlduck> ok, thanks
<crimsun> if you use debuild, pass -k
<crimsun> although if you only have one uid associated with your key, you won't need -k
<Fujitsu> The Ubuntu changes for space-orbit are just dependency ones... Debian merges one change, but not the other.
<fowlduck> I'm not sure what a UID is
<Fujitsu> fowlduck, email address.
<fowlduck> Fujitsu, ahh, ok
<crimsun> Fujitsu: are you positive? According to the Ubuntu changelog there's a .desktop delta, too.
<crimsun> oh d'oh, wrong changelog
<Fujitsu> Yeah, there is no change.
<Fujitsu> That was merged to Debian a little earlier.
<crimsun> just request a sync, then tell me the bug #, and I'll Ok it
<crimsun> sorry, let me actually look
<Fujitsu> But there is a little difference in the dependencies. Two dependencies were changed for 1.0.1-8ubuntu1.
<Fujitsu> Only one is back in Debian now.
<Fujitsu> Thanks, crimsun.
<Fujitsu> Surely the GL package dependencies in Debian are correct?
<crimsun> no, it can't be synced. It still needs a merge.
<Fujitsu> OK, I thought so.
<Fujitsu> But does it really?
<crimsun> the delta for the GL{,u} is valid.
<Fujitsu> There are no other changes in Debian.
<crimsun> "libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev, libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev"  is correct.
<Fujitsu> So a merge will be identical except for the version,.
<Fujitsu> But is a merge actually necessary if there are no changes?
<crimsun> there is a change.
* crimsun looks closer
<Fujitsu> The changelog and build-deps are the only things that have changed in both Ubuntu and Debian. The Debian change will just be overwritten when the Ubuntu diff is put over the top.
<crimsun> ok, no.
<crimsun> I was correct the first time
<crimsun> it's syncable
<crimsun> the reason being Debian's "xlibmesa-gl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev" is valid for Edgy
<Fujitsu> OK, good good.
<Fujitsu> Thanks for checking that.
* Fujitsu files a bug.
<Fujitsu> Bug #53114
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53114 in space-orbit "Please sync 1.01-8.1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53114
<crimsun> Ok'd
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> OK, I've done merged the Ubuntu changes for vpnc... Does the changelog want to be left alone when it says it was changed by MoM?
<Fujitsu> *just
<crimsun> nope, put your name and e-mail
<Fujitsu> OK.
<crimsun> generate the source package, stash the diff.gz+dsc somewhere, and I'll look & upload
<Hotwheelz> Hi guys how are we doing?
<Fujitsu> OK, I'll upload them now.
<Fujitsu> Hi, Hotwheelz.
<Hotwheelz> Hi, Fujitsu
<Hotwheelz> I have a question for you
<Fujitsu> crimsun, http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/vpnc_0.3.3+SVN20051028-3ubuntu1.diff.gz and http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/vpnc_0.3.3+SVN20051028-3ubuntu1.dsc
<crimsun> uploaded.
<Fujitsu> To the archive?
<crimsun> yes.
<Fujitsu> Thanks!
<crimsun> np. Out for coffee, back in a bit.
<Hotwheelz> Fujitsu brb
<Fujitsu> crimsun, I've got another thing which is just those GL dependencies on the Ubuntu side.
<Fujitsu> From `xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, xlibmesa-glu-dev | libglu-dev' to `libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev'
<Fujitsu> I'll be back shortly, lunch beckons.
* Fujitsu is back.
<crimsun> Fujitsu: xlibmesa-glu-dev is invalid for both Debian and Ubuntu
<Fujitsu> So change it to xlibmesa-gl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev, as was done for space-orbit?
<crimsun> what does Debian have?
<Fujitsu> libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev
<Fujitsu> Oop.s
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, xlibmesa-glu-dev | libglu-dev
<Fujitsu> That other one was what Ubuntu has now.
<crimsun> just add libglu1-mesa-dev as an alternate for xlibmesa-glu-dev
<crimsun> xlibmesa-gl-dev | libgl-dev, libglu1-mesa-dev | xlibmesa-glu-dev | libglu-dev
<crimsun> (ideally Debian needs to go libglu1-mesa-dev | libglu-dev)
<Fujitsu> Aha. OK.
<crimsun> very quickly, this is what's valid:
<crimsun> for gl dev: xlibmesa-gl-dev and libgl1-mesa-dev
<crimsun> for glu dev: libglu1-mesa-dev
<Fujitsu> Aha, thanks.
<fowlduck> do i actually have to meet with someone to get my gpg key signed?
<Fujitsu> fowlduck, if you want to be really proper.
<crimsun> so, "yes".
<Fujitsu> I must meet with Adam Conrad or somebody...
<fowlduck> so to submit packages i have to get it signed?
<crimsun> to submit packages to the Ubuntu archive proper, yes, you do
<crimsun> to submit packages to REVU, no
<Fujitsu> crimsun, care to take a look at http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/trackballs_1.1.1-3ubuntu1.dsc and http://people.ubuntu-au.org/~fujitsu/trackballs_1.1.1-3ubuntu1.diff.gz?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: actually the MoM-generated merge would have sufficed
<Fujitsu> Would it?
<Fujitsu> I think there was a conflict...
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<Fujitsu> You're right.
<Fujitsu> But the dependencies from the Ubuntu one are wrong, I think.
<crimsun> for which binar{y,ies}?
<Fujitsu> Build dependencies, sorry.
<Fujitsu> Or has MoM got some odd intelligence which allows it to correct them?
<crimsun> which ones look suspicious to you?
<Fujitsu> The GL ones.
<Fujitsu> They're missing xlibmesa-gl-dev.
<crimsun> the GL ones are fine. The merges are done based on the last Ubuntu package.
<crimsun> "libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev" works
<crimsun> note: 01:14 < crimsun> for gl dev: xlibmesa-gl-dev and libgl1-mesa-dev
<crimsun> that "and" should be an "or", actually
<Fujitsu> Ah. OK.
<crimsun> so if the B-D has either xlibmesa-gl-dev or libgl1-mesa-dev, it's fine
<Fujitsu> Ahhh. OK.
<Fujitsu> Well, MoM's merge is good then.
<Fujitsu> And wininfo is syncable.
<crimsun> right, attribute yourself, link the updated diff.gz+dsc
<crimsun> it's good practice, btw, to pbuild these in an edgy pbuilder, too.
<Fujitsu> OK, I haven't got an Edgy one yet, just Dapper and Breezy. I'll build one tomorrow when I get to school... There's some reasonable bandwidth there.
<crimsun> ok
<crimsun> (I've been going over them and pbuilding prior to upload, so you're fine for now)
<Fujitsu> Well, I've updated the trackballs ones. They are now the MoM-generated ones.
<crimsun> uploaded.
<Fujitsu> Aha, thanks. And I'll file a bug about wininfo.
<Fujitsu> A quick visit.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, bug #53115 is the wininfo one.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53115 in wininfo "Please sync 0.7-1.1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53115
<crimsun> done.
<Fujitsu> Thankyou!
<Fujitsu> dclock looks OK to be synced, except for one thing. A build-dep was added in the last Ubuntu release for makedepend. That isn't in the new Debian version. I can't see why it would be necessary in Ubuntu if it isn't in Debian...
<crimsun> well, back in the hoary/breezy days when we started the monolithic->modular split, we split out a lot of packages
<fowlduck> are there separate webs of trust?  how can I be sure my key is signed into the proper one to submit packages to the ubuntu archives
<crimsun> so in dapper, we have imake, but in debian sid it's now xutils-dev
<Fujitsu> Aha.
<Fujitsu> The Debian changelog mentions imake.
<Fujitsu> So, sync it?
<crimsun> lemme look
<Fujitsu> It's the only change.
<crimsun> well, to answer that we need to build-test
<Fujitsu> True.
<fowlduck> crimsun, is there a specific web of trust I need to be in?
<crimsun> fowlduck: your key needs to be signed by someone in the strong set
<Fujitsu> Most of them would be interconnected, fowlduck.
<fowlduck> crimsun, and is there a way to find them?
<crimsun> Fujitsu: yep, a sync is fine.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, great!
<Fujitsu> It's good getting rid of Ubuntu-specific changes...
<crimsun> fowlduck: every member of the ubuntu-dev LP team is in the strong set, so find one closest to you geographically
<Fujitsu> I really must organise that with infinity...
<fowlduck> ok, so ubuntu-dev LP, can I find them on ubuntu's site or something?
<Fujitsu> launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev
<crimsun> fowlduck: you're not limited to just ubuntu devs, of course. Anyone in the strong set will do.
<fowlduck> crimsun, so how do I determine this?
<fowlduck> i mean, i'm lost here :/
<crimsun> fowlduck: well, if you haven't gotten your key signed, you aren't in the strong set ;)
<fowlduck> crimsun, good, so only 6.5 billion possibilities
<crimsun> not quite
<crimsun> find someone close to you geographically
<crimsun> where are you located?
<fowlduck> yes, i'm asking how to find them
<fowlduck> Madison, WI
<fowlduck> USA
<Fujitsu> Bug #53116 for the sync, crimsun.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53116 in dclock "Please sync 2.1.2-8 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53116
<crimsun> fowlduck: oh, there are several people closeby
<crimsun> close by
<fowlduck> nice! :)
<crimsun> debian developers
<fowlduck> ooooh
<fowlduck> where are you looking for this?
<crimsun> you can use any of the debian and ubuntu geographical locators in addition to biglumber.com
<fowlduck> ok
<fowlduck> geograpical locators?  link?
<crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide
<fowlduck> ok, thanks, as usual you rock
<Fujitsu> Did I hear something about moving back to gksu rather than gksudo in Edgy?
<crimsun> I'm not familiar w/ it, but it's possible
* Fujitsu shudders at the sight of the delta in Ubuntu's Firestarter... Translations.
<fowlduck> crimsun, i have no idea how to use that locator on debian's site...heh
<fowlduck> ahh, i found a wisconsinite
<fowlduck> nice
<fowlduck> crimsun, are these ubuntu users or devs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide
<robitaille> fowlduck,  both
<crimsun> users
<crimsun> some are devs
<fowlduck> ok, so how do I know who is in the strong set?
<crimsun> you can use virtually any keyserver. Basically enter the person's key id and choose the keyanalyze report.
<fowlduck> i meant with the people on that list
<fowlduck> i just found raphink's in google :)
<crimsun> you can type their names into the keyanalyze report, too
<fowlduck> this is frustrating, maybe i should come back tomorrow and do this
<Fujitsu> Does CDBS' simple-patchsys just automatically apply all of the patches in debian/patches?
<crimsun> yesyes
<crimsun> hmm, repeat
<Fujitsu> In that case, galculator is fine for syncing. The diff was just to fix a bug which was fixed in the next upstream version.
<Fujitsu> How often is MoM updated?
<crimsun> I don't think it has been updated in a couple days
<crimsun> not sure, haven't looked more closely lately
<Fujitsu> OK, bug #53117 is for gcalculator. The diff for the new Debian version is HUGE.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53117 in galculator "Please sync 1.2.5.2-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53117
<Fujitsu> Hey Hobbsee!
<Hobbsee> hi all
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu :)
<heretician> hihi
* Fujitsu looks for another package to attack.
<Hobbsee> hi heretician
* heretician wishes he could find a package to attack in the first place
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: you need to look?  check merge-o-matic and pick something that looks interesting
<fowlduck> grrrr
<Fujitsu> (thanks for confirming that, crimsun)
<Hobbsee> ogyou around?
<heretician> Fujitsu, are you in MOTU?
<Fujitsu> heretician, no.
<Hobbsee> heretician: no he isnt
<fowlduck> Hobbsee, you live near wisconsin at all?
<heretician> Oh
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I've done a few today.
<crimsun> Hobbsee's in .au.
<Hobbsee> fowlduck: nope, why?  i'm in australia
<Hobbsee> Fuj
<heretician> Welp, going back to my packaging guides
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yay :)  did you do any of mine? :P
<heretician> Whats a merge-o-matic?
<fowlduck> just need to hunt someone down in the "GPG strong set"
<fowlduck> i'm having issues
<Fujitsu> heretician, it's INCREDIBLY useful.
<Fujitsu> MoM is the best thing since sliced bread.
<heretician> After you have became an experienced packager, correct?
<raphink> heretician: there are tons of great apps to package on {KDE,GNOME}-apps.org
<Fujitsu> heretician, not really.
<Hobbsee> heretician: see merges.ubuntu.com - tells you what packages need to update, tries to update them, and gives you a list of stuff to fix
<fowlduck> raphink, i'm using you as my reference for locating people in the strong set :)
<raphink> fowlduck: ah really? lol
<raphink> how come?
<heretician> Hobbsee, well I don't know how to "update" packages yet, let alone fix them hehe-- so by experienced I mean at the limit of being able to troubleshoot a package
<Hobbsee> fowlduck: you really dont need your key signed till you go for MOTU - until then, it's a good idea, but it's not mandatory
* raphink doesn't remember having signed that many keys ;)
<fowlduck> just came up randomly in a google search
<Hobbsee> heretician: true
<raphink> ah ok
<fowlduck> raphink, you've signed 20, i see
<Hobbsee> raphink: you can sign mine if we meet up one day, if you want.
<raphink> sure Hobbsee :)
<fowlduck> raphink, http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/stats/74BF771E.html
<Hobbsee> raphink: i think i should get jdub to sign my key at some point - that could be fun :)
<raphink> if you ever come to the French Riviera
<heretician> Hobbsee, NP though, the last guide I am going to be reading that LaserJock gave me is extremely detailed-- so hopefully it will cover things like that
<raphink> fowlduck: yes I know my PGP page :!)=
<raphink> :)
<heretician> Although thanks for the linkage, i'm adding those to my tips rtf hehe
<Hobbsee> raphink: or we both get to the same developer conference
<raphink> Hobbsee: that works, too
<Hobbsee> heretician: that's true.  it does, but rather poorly.
<Hobbsee> imo
<raphink> although you would enjoy the coast ;)
<raphink> I'm sure
<Hobbsee> raphink: indeed :_
<Hobbsee> *:)
<Hobbsee> raphink: maybe sometime i'll get a chance.  in a week, i can get a 10 year passport :)
<raphink> hehe great
<fowlduck> jeeze, no one in wisconsin is in the strong set so far, at least those listed on biglumber
<Hobbsee> fowlduck: who's in the strong set?
<fowlduck> Hobbsee, raphink for one
<Hobbsee> and if i got signed by a member of the strong set, does that make me in the strong set too, i wonder....
<raphink> Hobbsee: people who have signed keys of people in the strongset ;)
<crimsun> Hobbsee: yes.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I'm pretty sure.
<Hobbsee> oh yay!
<Fujitsu> How odd. gip only has a delta because was rebuilt because of a libsigc++ name change. No actual change.
<heretician> Hobbsee: Any other Guides you would recommend I move on to AFTER https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html ?
<raphink> yes Hobbsee
<raphink> heretician: did you read the New Maintainer's Guide?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ie, that was the change from debian  to ubuntu?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, yeah.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, just a changelog change. Nothing else.
<heretician> raphink: Wasnt given that one :P
<Hobbsee> heretician: then try a package, and refer back to any/all of the guides
<raphink> heretician: sure you were, I made a strong point to have it as an introduction of the ubuntu packaging guide iirc
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: okay, cd .. and dpkg-source -x the debian source, and check it builds and installs on edgy.  if it does, then you get to request a sync :)
<raphink> at least I think I remember so
<heretician> raphink: Hrm, well was it https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware or https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingEasyHowTo
<Hobbsee> raphink: it's at the end, iirc
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee, I haven't got an Edgy pbuilder yet (not enough bandwidth here, I'll build one at school tomorrow).
<raphink> heretician: go to the Additional Ressources in the end of the Ubuntu Packaging GUide
<raphink> the first link there is the DNMG
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: okay, nice, did you want me to test build it from here, then you can request a sync if it succeeds?
<fowlduck> is there an easier way to locate those in the strong set in your area?
<Fujitsu> Yes please, Hobbsee. crimsun's probably getting a little tired of testing mine :)
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heh, he'll probably want to test anyway, if he's going to upload it.
<Hobbsee> no, wait, if it's a sync, before he acks it.
<heretician> raphink: Yup, I see them now-- Well I haven't got to that guide yet anyway
<raphink> heretician: this is the reference guide
<raphink> for Debian
<heretician> raphink: So many :(
<raphink> then if you still want to read, read Policy
<raphink> at least a bit of it
<fowlduck> aha! i found one
<fowlduck> and only a 2 hour drive
<raphink> lol
<raphink> fowlduck: honestly, if you're wanting to get involved in FOSS, you'll find people to sign your key at the next linux event you'll attend
<raphink> prolly Debian or Ubuntu people
<raphink> since most other projects don't bother with keys
<fowlduck> there aren't many in my area
<Hobbsee> fowlduck: and it's really not that big a deal - you will meet people who can do it
<raphink> fowlduck: aren't many what? linux events?
* Hobbsee said that too.  well, that she couldnt meet up with any of them.
<fowlduck> aren't that many events...at least that I know of
<raphink> fowlduck: where are you?
<fowlduck> madison, WI, USA
<raphink> how about these people ? http://www.madisonlinux.org/
<fowlduck> yeah, i emailed them
<fowlduck> irc channel is dead
<raphink> ah
<fowlduck> rather recent update but nothing about when they meet
<raphink> mhm
<fowlduck> small world: http://wistechnology.com/events.php
<fowlduck> scroll down to MATC IT Education Open House
<fowlduck> follow that link and scroll all the way down to the bottom
<fowlduck> that's me on the bottom right
<fowlduck> ha
<fowlduck> i feel proud
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: go ahead and file the merge report for gip, it builds and installs fine
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: s/merge report/sync request/
<Hobbsee> crimsun: want to ack Fujitsu's sync request when it gets done?
<fowlduck> well, goodnight
<fowlduck> crimsun, thanks for everything, as usual
<crimsun> sure, just link
<crimsun> I'm out for a bit but will check back in 20 mins
<Hobbsee> hi tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee> howdy?
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: i'm okay :)  snuck out from work :D
<crimsun> Fujitsu: anything in Ubuntu universe that's a -XbuildY can be synced
<Hobbsee> crimsun: well, yeah, but do we know that for sure?
<crimsun> yes
<crimsun> otherwise we use ubuntu instead of build
<StevenK> -XbuildY is a no-change upload to rebuild the package
<StevenK> People going for -dev should know this. :-P
<Hobbsee> i realise that
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i knew that, i was merely thinking of those packages that build in debian, but ftbfs in ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> of which i've seen a couple
* StevenK has seen more than a couple.
<Hobbsee> well, i've seen a couple this cycle.
<Hotwheelz> Hi I have a question for package developer in here can I ask that one pls dcc chat me thanks :-)
<Hotwheelz> for a sorry
<Hotwheelz> guys
<Hobbsee> Hotwheelz: i doubt you'll get anyone answering to that.
<crimsun> Hotwheelz: pretty much the only time private queries make sense is for a security-related issue; otherwise we're all eyes.
<Hotwheelz> ok then
<Hotwheelz> if i run a packages search 4 Mythtv only 0.18 packages show up latest build is 0.19 when will the repositry\s be updated to reflect this?
<crimsun> dapper will not be updated to use 0.19*
<crimsun> I believe FunnyLookinHat is working to integrate mythtv 0.19* into multiverse
<Fujitsu> Oops. I'm back now.
<Fujitsu> crimsun, bug #53122 is the gip sync request.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53122 in gip "Please sync 1.6.1.1-1 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53122
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: heya :)
<Fujitsu> Thanks Hobbsee :)
<Fujitsu> I was coaxed into playing a board-game with my 7 and 12 year-old siblings.
<Fujitsu> Very painful it was.
<Fujitsu> But parents can be persuasive.
<Hotwheelz> hey Fujitsu
<crimsun> Fujitsu: done.
<Fujitsu> Thanks, crimsun.
<crimsun> out for the morning, back later.
<Hotwheelz> funnylooking are u there
<Fujitsu> And now I'm being told that sitting at the computer all day is unhealthy, and thus I must leave it. (even though I was up for a couple of hours before, and away for a couple of hours today... and what else is there to do!?)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: my parents stopped telling me that a while ago :)
* Hobbsee keeps sayign she's doing uni work a lot of the time
<Fujitsu> Saying I'm doing work doesn't work...
<Fujitsu> It's stupid.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, they never see the uni work anyway, so...
<Hobbsee> :P
<Fujitsu> Now they're making excuses. For example, they're saying I'll get deep-vein thrombosis.
<Fujitsu> This is the first time they've brought such pathetic excuses into it.
<heretician> Carpel tunnel.
<heretician> Carpal* that is
<heretician> "Initial treatment generally involves resting the affected hand and wrist for at least 2 weeks" two whole weeks!
<Hobbsee> ah yes, there's a package under that name.
<Hobbsee> rsi does happen
* Hobbsee has had rsi from playing too much minesweeper on a touchpad before.
<heretician> Minesweeper? People play that game?
<Hobbsee> heretician: sure, its' a great game!
* Hobbsee is rather mathematical, so it's fun :)
<heretician> Too much Linux for you!
* Hobbsee doesnt play it anymore
<heretician> Im not mathematical at all hehe ;/
<heretician> I wish more people would get on Atlantik
* Hobbsee plays ksudoku now instead, as she pretty much maintains it in ubuntu
<heretician> What's that
<Hobbsee> !info ksudoku
<ubotu> ksudoku: sudoku puzzle generator/solver. In repository universe, is optional. Version 0.3-3ubuntu2 (dapper), package size 117 kB, installed size 356 kB
<heretician> Puzzles, now that's more my genre
<imbrandon> moins all
<zakame> hi imbrandon and all
<imbrandon> 
<phanatic> morning
* Fujitsu is back.
<Fujitsu> What's with ilohamail's version numbers!?
<Fujitsu> 0.8.14-0rc3sarge1, 0.8.14-0rc3sid2...
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-motu.log
<Hobbsee> hi all
<phanatic> hello Hobbsee
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi phanatic, Fujitsu :)
<Toadstool> hi everybody
<Fujitsu> Hey Toadstool.
<Toadstool> heya Fujitsu
<Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi Hobbsee
<phanatic> hey Toadstool
<Toadstool> hi phanatic
<ryanakca> how do you move a bug from edgy to dapper in launchpad... I just reported a bug... and it's listed in edgy... even though its a dapper bug
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: you dont?  what's the bug #?
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: I dont what? #53145
<Hobbsee> bug 53145
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53145 in courier-pop "Missing configuration file for courier-pop. Does not install." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53145
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: oh... then I need to set that bug to rejected and somehow reported it to dapper.
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: firstly, what's the source package for courier-pop?
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: fixed.
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: i'd just add "on dapper" to the description of the bug
<ryanakca> Hobbsee: courier
<ryanakca> kk
<ryanakca> done, ty :)
* Yagisan waves hello
<FunnyLookinHat> Crap!  I missed my big debut!
* FunnyLookinHat pokes crimsun to see if he's alive
* FunnyLookinHat *shrug*
<FunnyLookinHat> BBL
<FunnyLookinHat> : )
<Hobbsee> hi Yagisan!
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: what's up?
<FunnyLookinHat> hey Hobbsee   : )
<FunnyLookinHat> Did you all see that mdz is on the front page of /. ?
<Hobbsee> FunnyLookinHat: nope
<Hobbsee> where?
<FunnyLookinHat> http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/15/1959221
<FunnyLookinHat> mdz = Matt Zimmerman
<Hobbsee> yeah, yeah, i realise that
<FunnyLookinHat> Ahh ok,   I only found out by accident  : )
<FunnyLookinHat> well I must be going.   gotta get showered for church   : )   cya Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> cya :)
<Arbiter> is there any reviewer?
<Arbiter> can someone review my smartpm package located here: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2709 - splitted because requested here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartPackageManager - thanks a lot
<freeflying|away> Arbiter: smart is alredy in debian and ubuntu
<Arbiter> freeflying|away, i know
<Arbiter> but a split was requested here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartPackageManager
<Arbiter> split into smartpm & smartpm-gtk packages
<Arbiter> "The package needs to be split into a smart package and a smart-gtk package to make it feasible for server installs."
<freeflying|away> Arbiter: have talked with mvo?
<Arbiter> freeflying|away, Last Seen: 1 week 4 days (23h 43m 29s) ago
<Arbiter> i thought that was better to start making the package
<Arbiter> it can be always archived
<Arbiter> but if approved the package would be alredy done
<freeflying|away> Arbiter: u'd better talk with mvo, he is the maintainer  :)
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: he doenst bite.  much.
* freeflying|away beds time, nite all
<Hobbsee> night freeflying|away
<Arbiter> Hobbsee, heh :D
<Hobbsee> guess it is bedtime, hey...
* Hobbsee will bed after building this package and requesting the sync.
<Hobbsee> and testing.
<Arbiter> it's 6pm here :D
<Hobbsee> Arbiter: 2am monday here
<Arbiter> :D
* Arbiter packages libgimp2.0-cil
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: sure you'll go to bed. we believe you ...
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: hehe.  no, i will.  just not sure at what time yet.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: how have you been ? I've had some problems with my eyes recently :(
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: i'm okay :)  been doing lots of merging, etc, i go for MOTU on wednesday
<Hobbsee> any MOTU's around to approve a sync request?
<Hobbsee> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/camorama/+bug/53153
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53153 in camorama "[Edgy MoM]  Please sync camorama  0.17-5 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Confirmed] 
* Hobbsee subscribes the archive anyway.
<Yagisan> Hobbsee: good luck on Wednesday
<Hobbsee> Yagisan: thanks :)
<Hobbsee> oh good, cheops should be a sync too.
<Hobbsee> anyway, i'm going to bed.  night all
<Arbiter> I ask for package review - name: libgimp-cli - Uploaded to revu (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2714)
<Arbiter> Package availability: Debian: No - Ubuntu: No
<Arbiter> Thanks a lot
<Arbiter> ;)
<Arbiter> s/cli/cil
<Arbiter> :)
<cypher1> finding out that building a package is not easy ;)
<zul> hey
<carthik> so how do I work to bring my favourite universe package up to date with the latest versions in Debian? Like gmailfs, armagetron etc?
<crimsun> carthik: gmailfs is a merge assigned (tentatively) to bmonty
<crimsun> feel free to work on it and stash a merged srcpkg somewhere so we can check and upload it
<carthik> crimsun, thank you - since it is "taken" i'd rather spend my time elsewhere, I guess.
<crimsun> carthik: it's not at all "taken"
<crimsun> the assignment is simply "who last touched it"
<crimsun> it's not at all binding
<carthik> crimsun, may I ask where you found info regarding who it was assigned to tentatively?
<crimsun> carthik: http://merges.ubuntu.com/universe.html
<carthik> crimsun, I'm sorry but the report page sounds confusing ( http://merges.ubuntu.com/g/gmailfs/REPORT )
<crimsun> carthik: what do you find confusing about it?
<carthik> crimsun, where I can download the gmailfs_0.7.1-6ubuntu1.src.tar.gz package mentioned there to manually check the conflicts?
<crimsun> carthik: you probably want to read http://merges.ubuntu.com/
<carthik> crimsun, sorry I just did - I see that grab-merge.sh might help. Thanks.
<crimsun> (note that gmailfs can be synced)
<carthik> crimsun, and how did you learn that? was it by looking at the src ?
<LaserJock> crimsun: is packages.qa.debian.org working for you?
<crimsun> LaserJock: no
<crimsun> carthik: yes, I compared the Ubuntu delta with the current Debian source package
<carthik> thanks, crimsun. I'm still very confused with the process, but will experiment a little and learn. For gmailfs - I suppose you'd just do a sync, or do i need to file a bug requesting a sync?
<crimsun> carthik: you may file a bug against the gmailfs source package saying it's ok to override Ubuntu changes. Then let a MOTU know the URL so he can sign off on it
<LaserJock> yep
<carthik> crimsun, so is there a recommended place for me to upload the src package to?
<crimsun> carthik: you don't need to upload anything for a sync request
<imbrandon> crimsun, whats the protocal request http://merges.ubuntu.com/h/helix-player/REPORT is just synced
<crimsun> imbrandon: file a bug against the helix-player source package saying it's ok to override Ubuntu changes, and let a MOTU know the URL so he can sign off on it
<imbrandon> k
<LaserJock> hmm, maybe that might be a good bot item to add
<imbrandon> LaserJock, probable
<imbrandon> hrm crimsun it looks like helix ftbs since pre-dapper though ;(
<imbrandon> not good
<crimsun> it will ftbfs on at least a couple arches
<carthik> crimsun, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gmailfs/+bug/53177 - what could I do to make it better - should I subscribe any team to it?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53177 in gmailfs "Please sync gmailfs" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed] 
<crimsun> carthik: yes, normally you would subscribe the 'ubuntu-archive' team
<imbrandon> crimsun, it looks like on dapper and edgy ALL arches ftbs ( no binarys except in breezy )
<crimsun> carthik: but we request that you don't do that, since a MOTU will do that
<LaserJock> carthik: also it is generally good to put what ever specifically to sync
<LaserJock> umm
<LaserJock> what version specifically to sync
<carthik> whoops - I just did that... crimsun. Sorry.
<imbrandon> crimsun, can you poke the url and make sure i'm reading this right that there has never been a binary in dapper or edgy that builds ( https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+search?text=helix-player )
<crimsun> carthik: yes, we request that you don't subscribe u-a because of possible adjustments, which will spam u-a
<carthik> LaserJock, thanks, I changed the description to include the version number
<carthik> crimsun, I'm sorry, I subscribed u-a before I could read you saying I shouldn't - won't happen again.
<crimsun> bug 53177
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53177 in gmailfs "Please sync gmailfs 0.7.1-6 from Debian Sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53177
<carthik> Thanks, crimsun :)
<crimsun> imbrandon: the ubuntu delta caused a ftbfs, yes
<crimsun> imbrandon: however, 1.0.6-3 is available
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> 1.0.7-1 is avail in sid
<crimsun> right, so file a sync request
<imbrandon> doing so now
<crimsun> remember /not/ to subscribe ubuntu-archive
<tseng> crimsun: not?
<imbrandon> tseng, not till a motu checks it
<tseng> oh.
<crimsun> tseng: right, the MOTU should do that when he signs off on it to avoid spamming u-a if any changes like above have to be made
<tseng> ok.
<tseng> I dont even know who is a motu anymore
<tseng> and who is just a sponsored upload
<bluefoxicy> I think I'm a sponsored upload or something
<bluefoxicy> they made me click some sign up button
<imbrandon> tseng, i'm still a hopefull for a bit longer , hopefully i'll feel confident enough in the next ~30 days to go up to the TB for motu 
<bluefoxicy> I didn't really pay much attention
<imbrandon> crimsun, bug 53178
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 53178 in helix-player "please sync 1.0.7-1 from debian sid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/53178
<LaserJock> tseng: http://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev :)
<tseng> LaserJock: not terribly concerned about it
<crimsun> imbrandon: done.
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  btw ubuntu seems to be doing --no-execstack now with gcrypt, you can close #49192
<imbrandon> crimsun, thanks
<tseng> LaserJock: ill assume the tb doesnt randomly approve people
<tseng> bluefoxicy: you cant?
<LaserJock> tseng: well, that's a different thing altogether ;-)
<crimsun> more coffee.
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  should I close it "fix released" for just a fix released on edgy though?  I don't know if Dapper has added the flag
<tseng> dapper is done.
<tseng> closed
<bluefoxicy> it's a matter of debian/rules, not patching or upgrading.  That doesn't fall into -updates?
<tseng> does it really need to?
<bluefoxicy> It's not my distro.
<tseng> this is pretty niche stuff seeing as we dont have a pax kernel
<bluefoxicy> But fixing it gets an executable stack off some 13 things
<bluefoxicy> well, gaim will have an executable stack on amd64 with gcrypt having an executable stack.
<tseng> see
<tseng> it is your distro, and you could take the effort to fix something
<tseng> or close your own bug
<tseng> instead of just whining
<tseng> its kid stuff to add a configure flag to a source package and ask for it to be reviewed for -updates
<tseng> i would ACK it, but i wont do the work
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  nods.  How would I go about doing that?
<tseng> grab the source package in dapper
<tseng> apply your change, build a new source package
<tseng> and make a debdiff
<bluefoxicy> make a debdiff?
<tseng> debdiff foo.dsc bar.dsc
<bluefoxicy> alright.
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  I did mention this was already fixed in edgy right?
<tseng> yes.
<tseng> is it exactly the same version and revision?
<tseng> well, one rev off
<tseng> doubt it.
<bluefoxicy> libgcrypt11-1.2.2?
<tseng> 1.2.2-1 in dapper
<tseng> -2 in edgy
<tseng> except that there are possibly other changes
<tseng> and that isnt the right versioning
<tseng> it would be 1.1 or something
<tseng> right so -2 is a huge diff
<tseng> we need just the one change
<bluefoxicy> tseng: easy enough.
<tseng> make the changelog like
<tseng> libgcrypt11 1.2.2-1.1 dapper-updates
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  if you're interested btw take a look at bug #49192, the first comment lists everything that was running on my machine with a +X stack because of gcrypt, which will all be magically fixed.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49192 in libgcrypt11 "libgcrypt11 has an executable stack" [Untriaged,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/49192
<bluefoxicy> oh.  I see you already have.
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  it's just a source package so building it on edgy won't matter rightL?
<tseng> right, if you get the changelog right
<tseng> you should test it on dapper
<bluefoxicy> uh
<bluefoxicy> tseng I got this massive diff
<bluefoxicy> tseng:  I'm going to rebuild the source package for the original, and then for the modified one, and debdiff.  That should buff out these changes-I-didn't-make
<bluefoxicy> I mean what the hell one of them changed the address of the FSF
<bluefoxicy> I downloaded the package on my dapper machine and scp'd it over here
<LaserJock> the address of FSF changed, some packages haven't reflected that
<bluefoxicy> LaserJock:  no, I mean
<bluefoxicy> I did an apt-source libgcrypt11; went into the source tree, added a changelog entry and a line to rules; dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot; stepped out of the source tree and debdiffed the .dsc apt-source got and teh one I just made
<bluefoxicy> and came up with thousands of changes.
<Laser_away> make sure you're diffing the right versions
<bluefoxicy> i gotta go for a bit, be back later
<bluefoxicy> Laser_away:  the directory I started with was empty, there's only two dsc's here, the one apt got and teh one I made out of it
<Laser_away> odd
<shawarma> Hmm.. I'm just getting started on these merges.. If I find a package that was merged just fine, all I need to do is change the Merge-O-Matic thing in the changelog to my name and e-mail, no?
<tseng> you dont need to change it if you didnt change anything
<tseng> only if you made notable changes
<shawarma> tseng: Really? Has this always been the case?
<tseng> yes.
<shawarma> I'm ALMOST sure someone told me to put my own name there instead of MoM back in the breezy days.
<tseng> you can change it if you like but there is no reason
<shawarma> I think the rationale was that that way it was clear that it had been reviewed (and by whom) and that it wasn't an accidental upload of an automatic merge.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-07-09
<ryanakca> how can I create a sid pbuilder?
<ryanakca> I keep on getting this error:
<ryanakca> E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/sid/Release
<ryanakca> pbuilder: debootstrap failed
<minghua> well, use a Debian repo server instead of Ubuntu one
<ryanakca> minghua: http://pastebin.ca/609490
<ryanakca> hey Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey ryanakca
<minghua> ryanakca: No idea, I don't play with pbuilder often.
<minghua> ryanakca: you may need some command line option for pbuilder when creating.
<DarkSun88> Night.
<TheMuso> Hey persia.
<persia> MOrning TheMuso
<Fujitsu> Hi persia, TheMuso.
<TheMuso> Morning Fujitsu.
<persia> Hey Fujitsu.  Great wording on the beryl bug :)
<jussi01> good morning persia, Fujitsu, TheMuso
<Fujitsu> Hi jussi01.
<Fujitsu> persia: Heh, thanks.
<ryanakca> minghua: okies, thanks
* TheMuso is going to try and clear some outstanding merges today.
<Fujitsu> Is Soyuz still being entirely useless today?
<Fujitsu> (ie. not adding any builds?)
* persia requests that REVU uploaders 1) Not upload to REVU for a simple revision bump, and 2) Include a comment for uploads when they are related to an upgrade bug (with the bug URL), rather than being an entirely new package.
<Fujitsu> persia: It'll never work.
<persia> Fujitsu: Why not?  Perhaps if I ask enough, someone will learn.  It's just really frustrating to find that half of a transition was uploaded because a reviewer didn't understand what was explained in a bug, perhaps requiring the work be entirely redone (or instead, introducing broken packages).
<TheMuso> I don't think we should use REVU for updating packages already in the archive either.
<persia> TheMuso: I like it for new upstream versions, as the debdiff is typically fairly ugly, especially when the package doesn't use a patch system.
<ryanakca> TheMuso: then what would a new guy do to contribute/have his 'update'/'fix' reviewed?
<persia> ryanakca: For most cases, attaching a debdiff to a bug would be preferred.
<ryanakca> persia: hmm... ok
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah, makes sense if you don't have webspace to upload the package to./
<TheMuso> Guess I am a little lucky in that regard.
<ryanakca> persia: if that's the case, maybe stick it in the MOTU documentation?
<persia> TheMuso: I also like the confirmation that the uploader is in the keyring.  Sometimes I see random pointers to webspace, and am less comfortable unless I know the person personally.
<persia> ryanakca: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<TheMuso> persia: Again, good point.
<TheMuso> Thats what I have always done with new upstream packages that need sponsoring, and all of my sponsors haven't seemed to have a problem with that.
<persia> TheMuso: I'm guessing that your sponsors tend to be people who know you reasonably well.  For new contributors, I think REVU is easier for new upstreams than personal webspace.
<TheMuso> persia: Fair call.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:persia] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | It's REVU Day!  If you've a package on REVU, please call for reviews.  If you're a reviewer, please review as many as you can.
<TheMuso> Ok then, merges can wait till tomorrow. :p
* TheMuso will just finish the few he has started.
<persia> TheMuso: If you're hunting features, no reason to switch :)
<ryanakca> hmm... for a plain text editor (simillar to nano), is it worth creating a aoeui-doc package?
<crimsun> Nafallo: you need to try alsa-kernel hg.
<TheMuso> crimsun: BTW, I am happy to take care of your merges if you don't want them.
<TheMuso> And or don't have time for them.
<crimsun> TheMuso: feel free.
<Nafallo> crimsun: will do when I get the laptop. Dell says I will have it 20th :-)
<Nafallo> crimsun: you might want to suggest it to the reporter so I know if I will have sound with Tribe 3 ;-)
<persia> ryanakca: It depends on the relative size of the /usr/share in the binary partition.  If there's a lot of documentation, it's nice to split the package.  If it's small, it might be better to include it in the binary package.
<persia> s/partition/package/
<ryanakca> persia: hmm... well, upstream created a massive .m4 file, that splits into two manpages, and creates equivalent .txt and .html files.
<crimsun> Nafallo: that's not under my control.  Linus must merge the fix for 2.6.22 final to ensure it, and he hasn't as of two minutes ago.
<persia> ryanakca: My general rule of thumb is that if more than 25% is in /usr/share, it's best to have a -common or -doc package (depending on what makes that 25%).  The size of the source doesn't matter, just the size of the results.
<ryanakca> persia: ok
<Nafallo> crimsun: ouch :-/. we won't have the fix if Linus doesn't sync then?
<minghua> It's REVU day again? :-)
<persia> minghua: Yep :)
<crimsun> Nafallo: we'll have it either way.
<crimsun> I'm just not going to push it to the kernel team unless it _doesn'T_ make it into 2.6.22.
<Nafallo> ah :-)
<Nafallo> okidoki
<Nafallo> would be nice if it worked with a tribe ;-)
<ryanakca> is it possible to do multibinary packages with cdbs?
<crimsun> certainly.
<persia> ryanakca: Yes.  Just add multiple stanzas to debian/control, and include the relevant binary-package.install, etc.
<Nafallo> gnight
<ryanakca> hmmm... like this: https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml#id2529601 ?
<ryanakca> night Nafallo 
<persia> ryanakca: Yes, although typically one doesn't need quite so much in debian/rules :)
<ryanakca> persia: okies, thanks :)
<TheMuso> persia: Did you or geser have any luck with ardour and working out why its dying?
<TheMuso> On the builds that is.
<persia> TheMuso: I'm waiting for a permissions adjustment.  Last I heard, geser was hunting a build log.
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
* Fujitsu hopes the build queuer turns back on today.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: They're off?
<persia> Fujitsu: I don't expect it until your evening: the relevant people seem to believe in weekends :)
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Yeah, I think cjwatson killed it with cron.daily last night. There have been no builds created since.
<TheMuso> ah ok
<crimsun> TheMuso: would you like to take over owneship of ubuntu-audio?
<crimsun> ownership, even
<Fujitsu> :(
<TheMuso> crimsun: I don't mind.
<TheMuso> crimsun: If you'd rather someone else take care of it, I am happy to.
<crimsun> done. I've deactivated myself in addition.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<persia> Uploaders: If you upload something from REVU, please archive the REVU entry.
* Fujitsu tries to interpret shirish's last attempt at killing off -devel-discuss
<ryanakca> persia: ok. Looks like the author just ln -nf /usr/bin/aoeui /usr/bin/asdfg      , and then the app figures out if it's running it QWERTY or Dvorak. Does that still require me to create the package asdfg? 
<ryanakca> (source creates the text editor aoeui (original, dvorak version) and then asdfg (the new, qwerty equivalent)
<persia> ryanakca: Not at all.  A package may provide multiple binaries: just check to make sure there are no conflicts beforehand.  The only reason to provide two packages is if there was a conflict of some sort, and users would only want one of aoeui or asdfg.
<ryanakca> persia: ok, so what would I call the package? aoeui, or asdfg?
<persia> ryanakca: Try to use the upstream name: we want to support branding
<ryanakca> (notice that the names are the first 5 characters from the left on the home row, on both layouts)
<persia> ryanakca: Sure, but in this case, the upstream website is probably called aoeui, and asdfg is just an alternate binary for those with a different keyboard layout.
<ryanakca> upstream calls the tarball aoeui, but on the webpage, it lists it as two seperate, but equivalent programs. But, asdfg depends on aoeui. I suppose I call it aoeui, and put in the control description that it provides the editor for both layouts?
<persia> ryanakca: Right.  The tarball name is a good hint :)
<ryanakca> ummm... do I want to install aoeui.1 and asdfg.1 if it creates aoeui.1.gz and asdfg.1.gz as well?
<persia> ryanakca: If the package creates both, you probably want to install both (every binary needs a manpage).  If there were only one, making sure it had info for both, and linking them would be sufficient.
<Fujitsu> persia: I think he means gzipped vs. non-gzipped.
<ryanakca> persia: what Fujitsu said
<ryanakca> persia: how will 'man' know if it wants the gzipped version or the non gzipped one?
<Fujitsu> Does anybody here know of a way to make sbuild default to (a) using the gutsy chroot, and (b) building arch-all?
<persia> Hmmm..  I don't have an opinion on that (and am not finding anything from a quick perusal of `man dh_installman`.  I seem to have only compressed manpages on my system. 
<persia> Fujitsu: for (b), -A helps, but I don't know how to set the default.
<Fujitsu> persia: Yep, I've been building with `-A -d gutsy' for ever, but was wondering if there was some default set somewhere.
* Fujitsu checks the code.
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm not finding good docs, but I'm guessing that doing something with ~/.sbuildrc ought to be the right solution.
<TheMuso> Arch all by default would be nice, I must admit.
<ryanakca> persia: ok, well, I think man will try to take the compressed one by default, and a couple more kilobytes won't hurt anybody...
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<persia> Found it: $main::distribution defaults to "unstable".  This can be adjusted locally, or perhaps we want a new default?
<persia> Ah, and $main::build_arch_all=1.
<Fujitsu> That's not in $conf::, though.
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice if it was overrideable.
<minghua> I think policy requires man pages to be gzipped.
<minghua> And it's definitely not good to ship _both_ compressed and uncompressed man pages.
<ryanakca> micahcowan: ok
<ryanakca> micahcowan: oops sorry,
<micahcowan> :)
<ryanakca> minghua: ok. hmm... I'll try to figure it out, thanks :)
<zul> hey
<Fujitsu> Hi zul.
<ryanakca> hmm.. how would one set up a dput server (receiving end)... google doesn't show much... I've tried sshfs, but all I get are permission denied style errors from moving the .dsc.asc to .dsc, and the .diff.gz.TA023a to .diff.gz
<ryanakca> (I have a pbuild server, and I have my desktop (where I make the source package), and I'm trying to figure out how to transfer without having to scp it all)
<RAOF> Man, that's a cool idea!  I can't help, but please make sure you post how to get that working :)
<ryanakca> RAOF: I'll stick it on planet :)
<persia> ryanakca: You could set up an rsync job on the pbuild server that grabs from a directory every few minutes (not that cp is many less characters than scp, but perhaps less authentication)
<ryanakca> persia: authentication is set up with ssh keys... sftp... hmm...
<ryanakca> persia: how does REVU have it set up?
<persia> ryanakca: REVU has an anonymous-acceptable FTP server, and a cronjob that runs some scripts to process the uploads.  Note that it doesn't actually build them: so the contents of the scripts are probably not useful for your purposes.
<Fujitsu> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29172/ is the revu script
<ryanakca> persia: hmm.. anonymous-acceptable FTP doesn't seem to be what I want... 
<persia> ryanakca: Perhaps.  You could just delete anything that didn't match your criteria every few minutes.
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: The files just have to get into a directory somewhere. It doesn't matter how.
* persia looks to see if dput accepts sftp...
<Fujitsu> It does scp
<ryanakca> hmm..
<ryanakca> would it be possible to somehow tweak sshfs?
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: Why sshfs?
<ryanakca> I have deb/ on my server, and I've mounted it with sshfs on my desktop... 
<persia> ryanakca: Why would you need to tweak it?  Also, you might like configuring dput to use scp, so it does all the tricky bits for you.
<ryanakca> Fujitsu: I have a tab in console open with a connection to the server. If sshfs works, I make the changes on my desktop, sign it (I only have my GPG key on my desktop), and then I switch to the server tab, and run pbuilder on it
<ryanakca> persia: because of permission crazyness
<ryanakca> persia: ls -lash .   shows it as owned by 'ryan', but I can't edit it... running chown on it all :) hmm.
<persia> ryanakca: You want more automation: use dput to scp the files, and have the server autobuild anything received, and put it in a repo (eith apt-ftparchive).  Put the repo source and binary lines in your sources.list.
* ryanakca nods
<persia> ryanakca: For extra points, autocopy the build logs to a webserver and mail yourself a link.
<ryanakca> persia: hehe :)
<ryanakca> persia: for even more points, have it grep the diff file for '(num)ubuntu(num)', to see if it should use gutsy pbuilder or sid pbuilder :)
<persia> ryanakca: Better to use the target distribution in the changelog.
<ryanakca> *nod*
* ryanakca wonders if he should write it for /bin/sh or '/usr/bin/env python'
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: The latter isn't meant to be used. /usr/bin/python is correct by policy.
* ryanakca scratches head
<ryanakca> Fujitsu: so, you shouldn't use env in any case for any python app, no matter the distribution?
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: It's forbidden by Debian policy, probably for a good reason.
<ryanakca> hmm.
<StevenK> It's forbidden because env(1) looks up the PATH, and /usr/local/bin trumps /usr/bin.
<Fujitsu> Hi StevenK.
<Fujitsu> I guess that would do it.
* Fujitsu kicks soyuz a bit.
<StevenK> And having a dependancy on some python module doesn't mean the random /usr/local/bin/python will know about it.
* StevenK waves to Fujitsu.
* StevenK joins Fujitsu.
<StevenK> I have three uploads, soon to be four that have no builds.
<Fujitsu> I think the build queuer is mourning the murdered cron.daily process.
<StevenK> Seems like it.
<Fujitsu> It always has to happen on weekends, doesn't it?
<jml> Sometimes public holidays
<persia> I think public holidays are usually exempted because they differ from country to country...
<minghua> Is new year celebrated widely enough to be considered "everywhere"?
<Fujitsu> I think so.
<Burgundavia> minghua: if you speaking of the gregorian calendar, pretty much yes
<Fujitsu> Hi Burgundavia.
<Burgundavia> hello Fujitsu
* minghua wonders why one of Fujitsu's sync bugmail ended up in spam folder.
<Fujitsu> minghua: For I am spammy.
<Fujitsu> Which one was it?
<minghua> The pymol one.  Probably because of the URL in the changelog.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<StevenK> Geez. It's disturbing when the rain outside can drown out the music that's playing.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: We haven't had rain for 24 hours or so, and nothing really heavy for a couple of weeks.
<StevenK> It hasn't rained for a few weeks, this is first drenching of July.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<Fujitsu> It has been raining a fair bit daily for the past 3 or 4 weeks.
<StevenK> Of course it has, it's Melbourne!
<Fujitsu> True.
* StevenK gets sick of libflac, and does some bug triage
<Fujitsu> Bug triage is pretty much all I do.
<StevenK> Hrm. Fast moving storm system. We got a 15 minute drenching, and now nothing.
<TheMuso> StevenK: heh
<TheMuso> Twas raining this morning, and did so overnight, but nothing since about 8 or so.
* StevenK ponders grabbing some lunch now the rain has buggered off.
* RAOF 's stomach rumbles at StevenK's musings
* Fujitsu 's does too.
* StevenK chuckles evilly.
* Fujitsu curses StevenK
* Fujitsu triages bugs then trolls on the forum
* RAOF foils StevenK's schemes by actually getting lunch!
<Fujitsu> RAOF: A good idea.
<StevenK> I would get lunch, but I can't decide what to get.
<joejaxx> pizza :p
<TheMuso> Unhealthy.
<StevenK> Pfft, like I care about healthy-ness.
<joejaxx> TheMuso: :p
<StevenK> persia: In regards to bug 84451, I'm not sure you can get source and binaries kicked out of released versions of Ubuntu
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 84451 in linuxsampler "Linuxsampler is unfree, and this is reported incorrectly" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/84451
<StevenK> "unfree" makes me chuckle, though. :-)
<jmg> StevenK: sourceforge page says GPL
<Fujitsu> I don't think it's possible to modify RELEASE.
* jmg checks out the bug
<Fujitsu> (after it is released, that is)
<StevenK> the actual README in the upstream distribution says "This software is distributed under the GNU General Public License (see COPYING file), and may not be used in commercial applications without asking the authors for permission."
<Fujitsu> Gah.
<StevenK> Quoted from the bug.
<Fujitsu> So it's GPLed, but not.
<StevenK> Right.
<jmg> bogus
<joejaxx> is there a real licensevname fornthat sort of license setup?
<StevenK> Sure. "Crackful"
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Not strong enough.
<joejaxx> excluding the fact that they are calling it gpl
<StevenK> Fujitsu: :-P
<jmg> there is a creative commons license that covers their need
<Fujitsu> jmg: There is also a cluebat that probably covers their needs.
<StevenK> Okay, so they re-license it correctly, it still means it get booted, or punted to multiverse. But this still means it can't get fixed for released releases.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Right. We're stuffed.
<StevenK> Debian has the same issue.
<Fujitsu> Debian's released pockets aren't absolutely frozen, are they?
<Fujitsu> There's no etch-updates, for example.
<minghua> Debian can just completely remove undistributable software from release IIRC.
<Fujitsu> There hasn't been a case of an Ubuntu release pocket being modified, and it'd need some manual hackery if it were to be allowed.
<StevenK> I don't think it kills it from everything.
<Fujitsu> Yay.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Sure there has, but it's ... special. dapper -> dapper.0, and then dapper.1
<Fujitsu> Wasn't that just a respin of ISOs including dapper-{updates,security}?
<StevenK> Hrm. Maybe. I thought it also updated the release itself.
<Fujitsu> No.
<Fujitsu> Check the modified dates in dists/dapper
* StevenK shrugs. Okay.
<Fujitsu> So, I guess we need to talk to archive people.
<StevenK> I think we need to subscribe ubuntu-archive to the bug, and ask for input. If they say no, we have to deal.
* Fujitsu loves licensing issues.
<Fujitsu> Does somebody want to reject the Breezy tasks and accept the other two?
<Fujitsu> *task
<StevenK> Done.
<ryanakca> hmm.. any python guru feel like helping me debug my upload-to-remote-host-and-pbuild-the-dsc script?
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: I'm not much of a guru, but pastebin and I'll have a look.
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/609846
<minghua> It seems Debian doesn't ship linuxsampler at all.
<ryanakca> you'll need python-deb822
<Fujitsu> It was removed pre-Dapper.
<Fujitsu> And only existed for 6 months.
* Fujitsu wonders why it wasn't removed during Dapper.
<minghua> Does that mean we don't track Debian's removal?
<persia> Regarding linuxsampler: there's been lots of discussion upstream, but some members of the upstream team are sure that the current terms are 1) legal, 2) correct, and 3) what they want.  Contrast the code with qsampler (which isn't so useful for us).
<persia> minghua: Only manually.
<ryanakca> Fujitsu: it's based on http://orebokech.com/tmp/dscp and my irssi + libnotify script
<Fujitsu> minghua: We do now, but I'm not sure about pre-Soyuz.
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: I'm semi-lunching now, but almost done.
<minghua> Fujitsu, persia: Is it done automatically with soyuz now?
<persia> Fujitsu: We do?  How?  Separately, how did we have so many orphans last time I checked?
<Fujitsu> persia: They do process Debian removals every so often. Anything !main isn't touched automatically, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> (Debian main, not Ubuntu main)
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  That makes sense.  There are a couple main-only scripts, and that would match my experience.
* Fujitsu wishes this was documented somewhere.
<persia> Fujitsu: Are you sure?  Ubuntu main makes sense, Debian main doesn't.
* persia looks at laptop-mode, exim, etc.
* Fujitsu looks at the empty removals list on http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/motuscience/versions/#removedfromA
<persia> Fujitsu: I requested removals for everything crufty last week :)
<Fujitsu> I haven't seen any removals requested recently, and that list had some packages on it earlier.
<persia> Fujitsu: Some of the archive admins act without bugs as well, but I think it's still manual.
<Fujitsu> It's all secret, so I doubt we'll find out why that got missed, or what we have to do to prevent it.
* persia recommends checking mdt every once in a while, especially between UVF and release
* Fujitsu hacked rudimentary Debian removal support into mdt a few months back.
<StevenK> persia: I managed to get cjwatson to process a sync sans bug yesterday.
<persia> StevenK: sync sans?
<StevenK> For sans, read 'without'
<RAOF> without :)
* Fujitsu saw Mithrandir say the previous day they wanted the trail.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Are build-deps on libcurl4-gnutls-dev OK nowadays?
<persia> StevenK: Right.  I've had a few admins do that, but Mithrandir was noisy last time I made a request via IRC.
<StevenK> persia: I think it was a case of asking the right person at the right time
<ryanakca> Fujitsu: uploading it with rsync works, it's just the pbuilder part.
<persia> StevenK: You mean, when nobody eise is watching? :)
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: Just finishing up lunch now, I'll look in a sec.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Yes. libcurl4-gnutls-dev has been NBS good and hard, so it should pull in libcurl3 correctly.
* ryanakca nods
<StevenK> persia: Something like that. :-)
* Fujitsu syncs centericq.
<RAOF> ryanakca: Don't you need to sudo pbuilder?
<StevenK> persia: I think it was a little of special case, since I did the upload to Debian as well.
<persia> StevenK: Perhaps.  My previous cases fell both into ones where I made a change in Debian, and ones where I had nothing to do with it.
<ryanakca> RAOF: not if you have it setup as the wiki once showed
<ryanakca> RAOF: hmm... where was it.
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: What error are you getting?
<ryanakca> Fujitsu: none, pbuilder just doesn't start
<ryanakca> Fujitsu: and I think I know why. I can't havi it start from my end, because pbuilder runs as root... it just hangs at the sudo prompt
<StevenK> pbuilder might also want a controlling tty.
<ryanakca> StevenK: hmm..
<Fujitsu> NOPASSWD may be your friend.
* ryanakca scratches head
<Fujitsu> sbuild might also be your friend.
<StevenK> Or easier, add yourself to the sudo group.
<StevenK> (Which does the same thing as NOPASSWD, but doesn't involve learning RPN. :-)
* Fujitsu grumbles.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Hrm?
<Fujitsu> I don't like random never-before-heard-of people confirming bugs with no comment.
<StevenK> Ah
* StevenK glances out the window. Sun?! What the? It was storming here about an hour ago.
* StevenK runs off to get ... something for lunch.
<Fujitsu> Got any idea what you're getting?
<ryanakca> Fujitsu: hmm. I guess I can set up a cron job to check /home/ryan/incomming every 2 minutes for a new .dsc...
<ryanakca> (it didn't work with me as part of the sudo group)
<Fujitsu> Still hanging at the sudo prompt?
* minghua wonders if soyuz can implement "non ubuntu-dev member can change bug status, but must have a change description of at least 200 bytes." :-P
<RAOF> tonyyarusso ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:/usr/sbin/pbuilder,/usr/sbin/pdebuild
<mohammad> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5922 has some license issues would you please kindly review it?
* tonyyarusso pokes head in
<tonyyarusso> oh yeah
<RAOF> Argh.  ryanakca, ^^^ is something like what you want in sudoers
<RAOF> tonyyarusso: Sorry for summoning you accidentally :)
<tonyyarusso> 'tis okay :)
<persia> mohammad: Sure, but why me?
<mohammad> StottK once reviewed it and told me that you know more about license issues and I have to ask you 
<persia> mohammad: Also, how is that related to http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5923 ?
<mohammad> persia:
<mohammad> persia: yes 
<persia> mohammad: Ah.  That makes sense.  Just in case you can't find a person, you might do as well next time with something like "Could someone please review URL ?,  The last reviewer reported some license issues, and I'm stuck".
<mohammad> persia: OK sure :)
* ryanakca nods
<mohammad> persia: thanks
<ryanakca> RAOF: thanks
<RAOF> ryanakca: works?
<ryanakca> RAOF: no, but it's a start :)
<ryanakca> RAOF: I'll poke it again in the morning, I'll probably then better then
* ryanakca --> bed
<persia> mohammad: Ummm..  This one's hard.  Just for starters, is it possible to copyright the text of the Quran?  Does upstream have attribution for the translations (I can't find them)?
<ScottK> persia: I think one can copyright the arrangement if not the actual words (as one can do for databases for example).
<minghua> Isn't Quran old enough for its copyright to expire in any part of the world?
<persia> minghua: That's what I thought.
<ScottK> persia: I suggested mohammad talk to you because I wasn't sure about some of the licenses that are combined in the package.
<mohammad> then what license do you suggest?
<mohammad> persia: ^
<persia> ScottK: Depends on the jurisdiction.  I'm most familiar with copyright in the US and Japan, and in both cases, one can copyright an assembly only if there is at least some original content (usually a foreword), and others may reuse the non-copyrighted material as they see fit.
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> It looked like a package that needed your touch.
<persia> mohammad: I'm fairly sure that the Quran itself is public domain, and does not require a license.  The translations & transliterations may carry copyright: I'd suggest the authors contribute to PubDom to support promulgation.  The application (and translated strings for the application) does well under a normal software license.  I'm hunting now for some published opinions regarding Apache, Eclipse, and GPL.
<minghua> Sounds a really complicated licensing situation...
<ScottK> It is.  That's why I thought of persia.  He seems to revel in this stuff.
<persia> minghua: It's not that different than the sword packages, really.
* minghua takes note to stay away from sword packages as well. :-P
<persia> If any contributor familiar with ext2 wants an easy bug to turn into a sync request, bug 124839 is a good target (needs a bit of testing and a description cleanup).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124839 in e2fsprogs "Request Freeze Exception for E2fsprogs 1.40.1" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124839
* Fujitsu wonders which freeze?
* StevenK appears.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What've you found to ingest?
<StevenK> Pizza
<Fujitsu> Aw :(
<Fujitsu> Boring.
* persia thought pizza was unhealthy
<persia> Fujitsu: DebianImportFreeze
<StevenK> Feel free to come up here and cook me something more interesting, then. :-P
<ScottK> persia: You say that like it's a bad thing.
<persia> ScottK: See the backlog
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah. I don't really know why it's called a freeze.
<persia> StevenK: it's a bit of a swim :)
<StevenK> Spoken like a true father of small children.
<StevenK> persia: I was talking to Fujitsu. :-)
<therealnanotube>  could someone please tell me about ubuntu package versioning conventions. e.g, if i have something with Version: "4.19-1ubuntu2.1", i understand that 4.19 is the actual software version, but what's the 1ubuntu2.1 stand for?
<therealnanotube>  i want to package my software into an ubuntu deb, and i want to know how the versioning stuff goes...
<therealnanotube>  i hope this is a good place to ask... :)
<therealnanotube> in fact, i was told on ubuntu-devel that this is the right place. :)
<Fujitsu> 1 is the Debian version, 2 is the Ubuntu version, and the .1 means a security or bugfix update post-release.
<ScottK> therealnanotube: This is a good place to ask, but we're really busy with off topic banter at the moment.
<therealnanotube> heh
<therealnanotube> so, if it doesn't have a debian version... is it a 0ubuntu1?
<ScottK> Right
<tonyyarusso> correct
<therealnanotube> cool. :) thanks for the help. :)
<StevenK> That's about as good as "how am I supposed to hallucinate with all these swirling colours around."
<therealnanotube> in case anyone is curious, i'm planning on putting ubuntuzilla (http://pykeylogger.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Ubuntuzilla) into a .deb for ease of use. 
* StevenK sighs. The potato gems are warmer than the pizza, and the gems are only lukewarm at best.
<Fujitsu> Argh, please, no.
<persia> mohammad: I've just checked with sword, and they typically use separate packages for text and software.  The text is PubDoc (e.g. http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/s/sword-text-tagalog/sword-text-tagalog_1.1-0ubuntu1/copyright), whereas the software is something else (e.g. http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/g/gnomesword/gnomesword_2.2.3-1build1/copyright).
<persia> s/PubDoc/PubDom/
<therealnanotube> ok, thanks everyone, i'm off to try to build my first .deb :)
<crimsun> therealnanotube: it would be a Very Good Idea to at least run the idea past asac, who maintains the Mozilla components.
<therealnanotube> crimsun: hm, well, at this point, i wasn't even planning on getting it included in universe or anything... though i suppose talking with someone who knows what he's doing is never a bad idea. :)
<ScottK> To get a new package from Debian at this point (it just made it out of Debian NEW), I just file a sync bug, right?
* RAOF wonderes idly about helping package the new granparadiso upstream
<crimsun> therealnanotube: not to mention you will likely want to check the ubuntu-mozillateam's resources (IRC channel, mailing list, etc.)
<persia> ScottK: Right.  It helps the admins make a decision id you can point at a cool new feature or something in the bug report.
<mohammad> persia: Does a package which is under pubdoman license go to universe repository?
<Fujitsu> Archive admins shouldn't contest syncs at this point just because there's no really good reason.
<therealnanotube> crimsun: well, all ubuntuzilla really does is install the mozilla-builds of ff, tb, and sm, without touching the repositories versions. so it's really kind of unrelated to the mozillateam. but again, probably wouldn't hurt to talk with them anyway. :)
<ScottK> Right.  Someone wanted evolution-python and I rejected their needs-packaging bug because it was in Debian NEW already.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> mohammad: Yes, but public domain doesn't need a license as it's not copyrighted.
<minghua> I think that depends on whether the sync is a new upstream release or just new Debian revision.
<ScottK> It's a new package
<RAOF> Oooh.  That means that conduit should be packaged soon :)
<Fujitsu> minghua: We've not passed UVF or NPFU, so that's irrelevant.
<persia> minghua: Not yet - that doesn't matter until UVF.  At this point, it just needs someone to say it's good.
<crimsun> therealnanotube: the distinction that you seem to be missing is that if users file bugs on the firefox package using Launchpad but are in fact using non-Ubuntu packages, that's something very touchy.  You _definitely_ want to coordinate with the ubuntu-mozillateam in that regard.
<ScottK> RAOF: Right.  That's what someone said they wanted it for.
<persia> Fujitsu: Does NPFU == FF?
<mohammad> So I guess it is ok if I do not break software and Quran text to 2 separate packages ScottK Am I right?
<Fujitsu> persia: It was renamed from FF mid-Feisty.
<minghua> Fujitsu, persia: Okay.  I stand corrected.
<RAOF> ScottK: Well, there's a nice ITP for conduit on WNPP :)
<therealnanotube> crimsun: aha, i see. thanks for pointing that out, then. :) 
<ScottK> mohammad: If it's public domain, yes.  
<therealnanotube> crimsun: i suppose their irc channel is ubuntu-mozillateam ?
<crimsun> therealnanotube: IIRC, yes.
<therealnanotube> crimsun: cool. thanks for your helpful tips. :)
<crimsun> np.
<ScottK> mohammad: You still need to figure out about mixing GPL, Apache, and Ecplise licensed stuff in the same package. I hope persia will have a recommendation for you.
<persia> mohammad: It's OK to have one package: it just needs lots more documentation.  Also, having separate packages may be interesting if anyone else wanted to implement a different Quran study tool (say for GNOME or KDE, rather than Jana).
<persia> s/Jana/Java
<mohammad> ScottK: I know that zekr has permission from the authors of some of the translations to use their translation in package zekr
<mohammad> "Free for non commercial use only. makarem.zip and kuliev.zip are authorized translations by the authors."
<Fujitsu> Ouch.
<Burgundavia> ok, that is non-free
<persia> mohammad: Ah.  That's not a free license (discriminates by field of endeavour).  That would have to be multiverse.
<ScottK> Unfortunately free for non-commercial use doesn't really qualify as free under the Ubuntu rules.
<StevenK> Muahahaha. That's a brillant quote. "all of you that believe in telekinetics, raise my hand!"
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Um, unfortunately?
<mohammad> ScottK: If zekr uses them, would you please let me know whether zekr will go to universe or multiverse?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Heh.
<Fujitsu> mohammad: If it can't run without them, it'll be in multiverse.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Unfortunately for getting his package in Universe.
<persia> mohammad: With that text, it needs to be multiverse.  I'd still recommend a package split: zekr could be free software with different translations, and the original text is surely free.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Ah, I guess so.
<mohammad> persia: OK I think I it is better to split it then.
<persia> mohammad: Also, someone might want to talk to the authors of the translations.  I seem to remember some directive about teaching from the Quran to all, and "for non-commercial use only" seems to be in a different spirit.
<jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia long time no see
<Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco
* Fujitsu ponders trying to hack a comment field into debcheck.
* ScottK ponders going to bed.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Which timezone are you in?
<crimsun> he's EDT (same as me; we're about 20 minutes from each other)
<ScottK> -0400
<Burgundavia> crimsun: where are you headed that you will not have easy internet access?
<mohammad> persia: yes I think the spirit is as you said and some people do not agree to set a non-free license for the Quran Translations, but what we do? :) I think those translations are publishing in some countries and we have to ask for the authors' permissions.
<crimsun> Burgundavia: I'll be posted internationally.
<Burgundavia> mohammad: you could get new translations
<Burgundavia> crimsun: ahh
<mohammad> but we do> but what can we do
<persia> mohammad: As a final note, mixing Apache and GPL is OK (at least for Apache 2.0), but you can't also mix Eclipse, as it has patent restrictions.  On the other hand, you can mix Apache 2.0 and Eclipse safely.
* ScottK quits pondering and goes to bed.
<ScottK> Good night all.
<persia> mohammad: I'd get in touch with a local teacher - they can probably point you at some free translations.  Also, if you're relationship with upstream is strong enough, perhaps the zekr community can reach internationally for translations.
<ScottK> mohammad: This is difficult work, but it is very important to get it right.
<persia> mohammad: At least in the case of sword, it looks like different people all over the world found some local free text and uploaded it (that's why theres ~15 different sword-text packages).
<persia> mohammad: Depending on where you are, groups like http://www.daralislam.org/about/ might also be willing to help.
<RAOF> Bah. When is specto going to hit debian?  How long does a package usually sit in the new queue for?
<mohammad> persia: we have a lots of translatoins for Quran http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5923 . but I am not sure about their license, just people in the community found them and sent them to us
<persia> RAOF: Between 1 week and 1 year, depending on interest and available time :)
<mohammad> persia: thank you
<RAOF> persia: :).  Ah, of course!  It's not automatic.
<persia> mohammad: It's just legwork then :)  You need to contact the people who submitted them to make sure they meet the DFSG (http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines)
<persia> mohammad: Points 1, 5, 6, and 7 are probably most important for this type of text (as it's not really source code).
<minghua> persia: I heard GPL v2 is not compatible with Apache license?
<Fujitsu> minghua: That's a contentious topic.
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
<persia> minghua: Right.  Grr..   FSF has already updated their page for GPLv3.  I need to read more carefully.
<persia> Still, because of the Eclipse code, even GPLv3 isn't a good choice for zekr.
<mohammad> persia: I am naive in license issues. if we cannot mix GPL, eclipse and appache then, what can we do? which license should be announced in debian/copyright for zekr?
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu 
<TheMuso> Its a Hobbsee!
<persia> mohammad: It depends on how much control you have over the code.  If you have none, you want multiple packages, with appropriate dependencies to split the licenses.
<persia> If you can, you probably want to relicense the code to be Eclipse or Apache.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it is!
<mohammad> persia: So then the person who should agree is zekr developer. I think I can persuade him to set license as Apache for this release
<persia> mohammad: Right.  Best of luck.
<mohammad> thank you persia
<mohammad> Thank you all for your help
* persia goes off to note the copyright problems in both zekr packages in REVU
<mohammad> see you then
* RAOF tags the conduit needs packaging bug with Debian's wnpp bug
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5927 <-- what's NMU?
<persia> LucidFox: "Non-Maintainer Upload".  This is important for Debian, where each package has an assigned maintainer, but not for us.
<LucidFox> so those Lintian warnings related to NMU can be ignored?
<RAOF> Yup
<persia> LucidFox: Right.  You can ignore lintian warnings about 1) NMU, 2) unknown distribition (as long as it's "gutsy"), and 3) Bad version (as long as it's X.Y.Z-NubuntuV
<persia> )
<LucidFox> ok
<minghua> It would be nice if we can just upgrade REVU's lintian.
<persia> LucidFox: On the other hand, you do want to reupload to match the newer standards version :)
<LucidFox> well, I wasn't the one who uploaded it
<persia> LucidFox: Ah.  Sorry - identity is hard to match between REVU and IRC.
<LucidFox> heh
<LucidFox> debian/changelog for this package has feisty as the latest entry's distribution - I guess it's wrong?
<minghua> LucidFox: Yes, it's wrong.  Should be gutsy.
<persia> TheMuso: I thought that was configurable by user preference.  Is it not?
<TheMuso> persia: I don't know.
<persia> TheMuso: If it is, I can't find it.  Given your experience, perhaps it is server-wide.
<TheMuso> Does anybody know if Vassilis Pandis frequents IRC?
<jmg> does he have an ircname listed?
<TheMuso> Ah forgot to check that, now if I only knew his lp name.
<ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/~pandisv
<Hobbsee> try googling "launchpad Vassilis Pandis"
<ajmitch> or without launchpad, it's the 2nd hit
<TheMuso> ajmitch: Thanks.
<StevenK> IRC:  neutrinomass  on network irc.freenode.net
<TheMuso> Ok, not online currently.
<TheMuso> Thanks folks.
<TheMuso> .c
<TheMuso> ugh
<TheMuso> typing
<imbrandon> moins all
<Hobbsee> hi imbrandon 
<imbrandon> heya gurl, hows it going
<Hobbsee> imbrandon: i'm waiting on someone who can poke soyuz to wake up.
<imbrandon> hehe
<imbrandon> fun fun
<Hobbsee> of course, i could call one of them.  but i'm not sure he'd appreciate it
<imbrandon> anyone poked libmapi from the openchange project yet that anyone knows about ?
<imbrandon> Hobbsee, prob not
<TheMuso> Heya imbrandon.
<TheMuso> Long time no see.
<superm1> hey imbrandon 
<imbrandon> lo guys
<superm1> imbrandon, any words on the comm. buildds from this weekend?
<imbrandon> not right now, i have some hardware issues to resolve
<imbrandon> as in aurora is sitting in my bedroom dead , heh
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon :)
<imbrandon> heya ajmitch 
<StevenK> imbrandon: Hey. How did aurora die?
<imbrandon> StevenK, not sure, thats why i finaly unracked it, i thoutght it was heat but it dosent seem to be, just shuts its self down ( cleanly i might add ) every few hours
<imbrandon> havent had alot of time to look more into it
<imbrandon> but that bad part is its not rebooting , its shutting down
<TheMuso> Heh. Crontab? :p
<imbrandon> looked :)
<StevenK> acpid?
<imbrandon> not sure
<persia> dust in the power switch assembly?
<StevenK> If it's recent, power switches are soft.
<imbrandon> yea its a new case
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That might have been true a few years ago, but nowadays it is soft unless it's positively ancient.
<persia> Even "soft" powerswitches can send unexpected acpi events.
<persia> also, "hard" powerswitches wouldn't shut down cleanly.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: You're not qualified to talk about ancient hardware. :-P
<Fujitsu> True.
<imbrandon> hahahah
* RAOF had an old 80086 "portable" as a child
* TheMuso feels he is slightly qualified, having dealt with a 486/upgraded to Pentium 166 machine. :p
<RAOF> TheMuso: Bah!  They even had a PCI bus!  No where near ancient :P
* StevenK feels qualified, his first machine being an TRS-80.
<imbrandon> heh
<Fujitsu> My oldest new machine was a Cyrix running at 40MHz, with ~8MiB RAM.
<StevenK> Any external buses?
<TheMuso> RAOF: Heh.
<superm1> imbrandon, anything in /var/log/syslog regarding the shutdown (overheat etc)?
* persia thinks that anyone who can't point at a C6502-era processor (or earlier) is not really talking about old hardware
<TheMuso> RAOF: One thing I do know however, was that the upgrade was done bodgily, with the mobo not being replaced when we got the machine upgraded to a pentium chip.
<TheMuso> It worked, but the mobo was the biggest bottleneck.
<imbrandon> my fist computer that was /mine/ had a 6502 in it
<superm1> I know my thinkpad was complaining to me when I would start doing compiles on a very dusty CPU fan.  I'd kick a compile off at midnight, look the next morning and the laptop was off.  Saw in syslog that it cleanly shut down from getting too close to overheating.  Blew the fan out, and hasn't happened again
<imbrandon> ( c64 )
<StevenK> persia: Surely a TRS-80 counts, being of the same era.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Oooh, so it probably didn't have a pci bus then.  I remeber those "stick a pentium in your 486 motherboard" things
<persia> StevenK: Yep.  (Was that TI-49AA?)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yes, it did have a PCI bus, with about 2/3 PCI slots, one of which was a PCI/ISA shared slot. The PCI and ISA slots were also the same colour.
<StevenK> persia: I was ... like seven. I can't recall. :-)
<TheMuso> And the best the IDE bus could run at was DMA.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Oh, so at least it was a modern 486 motherboard :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yes.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  You've come late to your ability to remember technical details then.  How sweet :)
<StevenK> TheMuso: That last sentence doesn't make sense.
<TheMuso> StevenK: I know, but thats what Linux reported with an ATA66 drive plugged into the IDE bus.
* persia thinks the definition of "modern" has changed in the interim
* TheMuso stares at the box he hopes to use for asterisk, and tells himself he should get started on it.
* RAOF spent a lot of time playing civ on his bad-ass pentium 90 system
<StevenK> persia: The defintion for modern changes constantly.
<persia> StevenK: That would invalidate postmodernism :)
<StevenK> Hahaha
<StevenK> "Its major draw back was the massive RF interference it caused in surrounding electronics which was never solved and was a violation of FCC regulations." -- TRS-80 wikipedia page.
<StevenK> Oh, the memories
<RAOF> wicked
* Fujitsu pats the C64.
<Fujitsu> Is Soyuz also not sending notifications to gutsy-changes, or is it something at my end?
* TheMuso can't understand why people subscribe to gutsy-changes.
<StevenK> Hrm. My TRS-80 is looooooooong dead.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Why not?  I picked up the incorrect gst-plugins-farsight sync that way
<Fujitsu> We've got one working C64, and one dead one.
<TheMuso> RAOF: ah ok.
<TheMuso> Must be high traffic though.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It's not too bad, particularly when Soyuz gets annoyed and stops sending notifications.
<TheMuso> heh
<RAOF> Eh, I use the rss feed :)
<TheMuso> Ah.
<imbrandon> Fujitsu, this would be perfecty for your "dead" c64 + slimline dvd http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/pico-itx/  
<imbrandon> :)
<Fujitsu> Oh no, I think I know what that is.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Fujitsu> That'd be great.
<Fujitsu> How can that make it that small!?
<imbrandon> someon did one with a larger versionof the MB before those came out
<imbrandon> http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/c64/
<imbrandon> pico-itx boards are nice
<nixternal> wo0t
<nixternal> shoot, quit showing mini-itx stuff man!
<nixternal> I am so tempted to buy one. for what I have no idea
<imbrandon> nixternal, see the pico ?
<nixternal> many times :) and I just looked again :)
<DarkMageZ> if you find a computer that you want, but can't actually justify. just think of bonic.
<nixternal> haha
<DarkMageZ> it's how i'm going to justify one of those openmoko phones..
<nixternal> ooh, I would like about 50 of those pico-itx rigs
<nixternal> server farm in a shoebox!
<nixternal> DarkMageZ: I have already justified the openmoko phone
<nixternal> hrmm, #debian-mentors on OFTC has a bot (MentorSeeker) that notices the channel when someone uploades to m.d.n...that's kind of nice actually
<persia> StevenK: I encountered http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29189/ whilst reviewing.  I don't know if it's something special about the target file (on REVU), but I thought you might be interested, as the reverse is more common.
<StevenK> The reverse, as in, Linda giving errors?
<persia> StevenK: The reverse as in lintian taking a while, and linda being fast
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> Feature? :-)
<persia> StevenK: Doesn't really matter - it's only 30 seconds, but I thought there might be something special about the subject file, such that you might want to take it as part of your private performance test suite :)
* persia seeks a recommendation for a package to REVU
<SeaGateIsNot> could anyone help me with a xserver problem, I'm running ubuntu 7.04, and a Radeon X300 Series via VGA, the problem occurred when i installed beryl, i already tried reconfiguring X, and no success, any suggestions? 
<DarkMageZ> SeaGateIsNot, this is not the appropriate channel. Please try #ubuntu-effects
<SeaGateIsNot> ugh
<persia> SeaGateIsNot: You'll probably get better support somewhere else (#ubuntu might work).  X is in main, so we don't really have deep familiarity.
<SeaGateIsNot> #ubuntu has 1000+...thats the problem..you can never get anything answereed
<persia> SeaGateIsNot: Try #ubuntu-effects, as recommended by DarkMageZ
<persia> (which reminds me, I should be reading a debdiff...)
<SeaGateIsNot> I am.
<jussi01> Morning everyone
<persia> DarkMageZ: My apologies for the delay.  That was a lot smaller than it looked.  It appears that the Spanish translations are now disabled.  Am I missing something?
<DarkMageZ> oh. good finding. i had forgotten that hack.
<DarkMageZ> i had to disable the po directory from the makefile as it caused problems with the new autotools.
<persia> DarkMageZ: If you can get them back it, it'd be great (Ubuntu has a fairly large Spanish-speaking community).  Based on the changelog, you might have to either try with a few different versions of automake, or modify the input files to match the newer versions.
<DarkMageZ> i'll give it a shot
<persia> DarkMageZ: Thanks.  ping me if you get it working, and I'd be glad to upload.
<DarkMageZ> persia, if you remove debian/patches/05_remove_po does that make the spanish work? it appears to build properly without that patch. but i don't know how to test language stuff.
<DarkMageZ> ick, scratch that.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Ah.  Good.  Spanish isn't one of the locales I have enabled :)
<persia> DarkMageZ: More generally, the easiest way to test a translation is to start the application in the selected locale (I'd suggest es_AR for this), and check the language of the menus, etc.
<DarkMageZ> where does libvisual-plugins actually output text?
<persia> DarkMageZ: Looking briefly at the content of po/es_ES.po, I'd suggest the properties panels for the plugins.
<jussi01> gah... I hate my computer overheating...
<dholbach> good morning
<persia> dholbach: Good day.
<dholbach> hiya persia
* persia resyncs the REVU keyring
<TheMuso> Evening RAOF.
<RAOF> Evening TheMuso.  Now that I've checked how well nouveau works (it doesnt, at the moment), it's time to make some minestrone!
<TheMuso> RAOF: Yum. What do you do it in?
<RAOF> A saucepan?
<TheMuso> Ok, its just that my folks do it in the crock pot.
<RAOF> Aaah.  No, I don't have a crock pot
<TheMuso> Fair enough then.
<TheMuso> RAOF: Nevertheless, its a yummy, and filling soup.
<RAOF> It is indeed
<RAOF> Mmmm, full of beany goodness.  And proscuito.
<TheMuso> Yup.
<TheMuso> Another favourite of mine is pea and ham soup.
<RAOF> Mmmmm.
* persia prefers bacon to ham for pea soup, and suggests also using a little soy sauce
<RAOF> We recently made some pumpkin soup out of leftover stock from some beef masaman we made.  Mmmmm.
<TheMuso> Sounds nice.
<imbrandon> yall makin me want some food
<imbrandon> lol
<TheMuso> heh
<porthose> yum yum;)
* Fujitsu grabs some icecream.
<imbrandon> pizza sounds good tonight
<DarkMageZ> persia, my autotools foo fails short of being able to fix this. http://pastebin.ca/610211 (this is with 05_remove_po removed)
<persia> DarkMageZ: It looks like @MKINSTALLDIRS@ isn't being expanded for some reason.  I'm about to cook, but I'll take a deeper look at it afterwards (if nobody else finds a solution first).
<DarkMageZ> sweet. thanks.
<imbrandon> !releaseschedule
<imbrandon> hrm
<jussi01> the bot is dead...
<imbrandon> i see 
<Fujitsu> It got eaten by a netsplit several hours ago.
<jussi01> :)
<imbrandon> no problem i was just lazy, i got it now
<imbrandon> ;)
<imbrandon> i just needed to check how much longer i had to prepare xrdp
<imbrandon> heh
<StevenK> Hungry netsplit, it seems.
<StevenK> Maybe it ate Soyuz, too.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Did you see LaserJock's blog post?  What do you think of the Science/TeX work?
<Fujitsu> minghua: I haven't checked planet in several days.
* Fujitsu looks.
<Fujitsu> Ah, how unfortunate.
<Fujitsu> Everyone's retiring nowadays :(
<Fujitsu> minghua: What about science/TeX?
<minghua> Fujitsu: I was wondering who is going to lead the science team.
<minghua> Fujitsu: It seems you are the most active MOTU on the science front now.
<Fujitsu> Well, I guess so.
<minghua> I haven't ask LaserJock yet, maybe he can still do the administrative work.
<Fujitsu> I'm fine with taking that over if necessary.
<minghua> I was just going to write an email to -science list, asking for more participation.
<minghua> I saw that quite a few people applied for -science team, no one has been approved in recent months though.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Are you an admin?
<minghua> I have the approval right (do you?), but the problem is I don't know most of them.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Yes, I am.
<Fujitsu> Looks like all MOTU members are.
<Fujitsu> I don't know any of them either :(
<Fujitsu> I think i've heard of a couple.
* Fujitsu sees two that should probably be approved.
<minghua> I usually don't do REVU work, but I'm willing to review science related packages if the hopefuls ask on list.
<Fujitsu> I haven't touched REVU in many months.
<minghua> Actually I know one of them, the one asked about "Science Edition" on list.
* ScottK just finished the scrollback.
<ScottK> Good morning all.
<Fujitsu> mok0 looks good.
<ScottK> StevenK: My first computer was a TRS-80 too.
<Fujitsu> Hi ScottK.
<ScottK> Hi.
<minghua> I think I need to talk with LaserJock about this.  Fujitsu, do you want to be involved in the conversation (if I can't catch him on IRC, it's going to be private mail)?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I agree about mok0.
<minghua> Morning ScottK.
<Fujitsu> minghua: I don't really mind.
<ScottK> Good morning minghua
<TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
<ScottK> Hi TheMuso.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Any objections to me approving mok0?
<minghua> Fujitsu: No objection.  He is good.
<persia> DarkMageZ: Great to hear it.  Thanks.
* StevenK kicks apt.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: What's it doing now? Not building?
<StevenK> Yup.
<ScottK> Speaking of not building, how much RAM do the buildd's have?
<Fujitsu> Nice, nice.
* Fujitsu hasn't seen specs for them anywhere.
<ScottK> The good news with apt is the unlike OOO you don't have to wait 27 hours to find out it won't build.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Heheh, true.
* ScottK is looking at a bug in Debian BTS where it says you need something north of 1GB RAM to build pypy.  Wondering if that might be why it FTBFS.
<Fujitsu> I would have thought they'd have at least 1GiB.
<zul> i think they might have more than 1GB
<ScottK> One of the bug comments mentions (this is on S390) the build died with it hit a 2GB limit.  Not sure how much more than 1 GB is needed.
* minghua wonders when pypy need such huge RAM to build.
<minghua> According to package description it's just C.
<ScottK> minghua: Dunno.  Just reading the discussion in Debian Bug #431197.
* Fujitsu kicks ubotu into unnetsplitting.
<persia> minghua: Perhaps it has a really complex nested structure namespace, or some other interesting compiler tricks built in?
<minghua> persia: I don't know.  The bug reports doesn't say anything on this respect.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I haven't seen a join message from you in ... a long time.
* RAOF really should check out pypy.  It's cool
<Fujitsu> !info pypy
<minghua> s/respect/aspect/
<Fujitsu> Hm, that's not going to work.
<minghua> heh
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: probably because freenode split & never rejoined the parts
<ajmitch> usually it's because DSL drops out here
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yep. It's nice like that.
<StevenK> I've noticed that a few times before. I'll screen back to IRC and see that it's me and 2 other people in -devel.
<Fujitsu> I haven't been in the minority of a split in months.
<StevenK> At which point the first thing that pops back into my head is, "Was it something I said?", but I haven't said anything.
* TheMuso was whenever the au server was involved.
<StevenK> I trusted the round-robin chat.f.n until 3 out of the 7 addresses were giving connection refused and I didn't know how to tell irssi to flush its DNS cache.
<KnowledgEngineer> someone use lisp and asdf-install ?
<KnowledgEngineer> or lisp and cl-sdl-opengl 
<KnowledgEngineer> someone use lisp and asdf-install ?
<KnowledgEngineer> or lisp and cl-sdl-opengl 
<KnowledgEngineer> ?
<ScottK> KnowledgEngineer: Support is in #ubuntu.  There are a lot more people there.  You might have more luck.
<xxxxx1> good morning people
* man-di_ really wonders if he should apply to become a MOTU or not
<minghua> man-di_: What is the reason against?
* RAOF is wondering the same thing.  But s/if/when/ :)
<minghua> Does anyone know if the python-minimal package alone can run a hello world program?
* minghua suspects http://www.meebey.net/jaws/?gadget=Blog&action=SingleView&id=40 is not factually correct.
<RAOF> How small a hello world?
<man-di_> minghua: what will be better when I'm a MOTU?
<minghua> man-di_: Direct upload for packages you care, that's what is most important to me.
<zul> you can upload to universe without needing a sponsor
<man-di_> minghua: I can wait for ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<Fujitsu> win 12
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<RAOF> minghua: Unless your hello world uses some not-very-hello worldish modules, the answer should be "yes"
<minghua> man-di_: Reducing their reviewing work then? ;-)
* ScottK is finding it helps more than I thought it would to be a MOTU.
* TheMuso always feels a weight of responsibility when uploading any packages.
* persia finds that there is less time for personal distribution goals
* RAOF goes to crash his X server with nouveau
* ScottK has had to invest some time in bug fixing by guilt (re TheMuso's responsibility comment).
<man-di_> TheMuso: I'm Debian Developer and I sponsor some people for Debian, I know what you mean
<persia> man-di_: A better question is perhaps "Do you want to be a MOTU?"  Why?  If there's a good reason (for you), that's your answer.
<man-di_> persia: I currently think the only reason would be direct uploads, and that is not much reason
<minghua> man-di_: In that case maybe not.
<persia> man-di_: There you go then.  Wait.  You'll find a good reason :)
<ScottK> One other side benifit is that you can post unmoderated on ubuntu-devel.
<minghua> For example, the Debian TeXlive maintainer didn't become a MOTU, he just subscribed package bugmails and reply them.
* persia notes that most moderators are responsive to friendly pokes
<man-di_> ScottK: i have never read a bit of ubuntu-devel, why should I post there?
<man-di_> minghua: thats what I currently do as Debian Java Maintainer too
<ScottK> Dunno.  It's really only relevant for Ubuntu specific stuff.  Since I don't know how involved you are in Ubuntu, I don't know if you should or not.
<minghua> man-di_: Do you run Ubuntu anywhere?
<man-di_> ScottK: currently I only want to improve java packages
<man-di_> minghua: yes
<ScottK> Topic of the day is should Launchpad grow an ability to forward bugs to Debian BTS.
<ScottK> man-di_: In that case you probably don't care.
<persia> I thought that was discussed in debian-devel a couple years ago, with a clear NO as the result.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It's growing the ability to forward to arbitrary email addresses in 1.1.8
<man-di_> ScottK: hmmm, I would have an opinion on that (launchpad => bts)
<minghua> man-di_: Better than I.  I only have a gutsy pbuilder and a rarely-logged-in dapper install now. :-(
<ScottK> persia: A big part of the question is how much advance discussion with Debian is needed.
<man-di_> ScottK: its also some groups in debian want discussion, others dont
<ScottK> Yep.  
<broonie> man-di_: Well, it's more that some groups in Debian want nothing to do with Ubuntu..
<man-di_> ScottK: I would welcome all input I can get from Ubuntu and other distros
<man-di_> broonie: unfortunately
<man-di_> broonie: hu?
<persia> Hrm.  Debian is separate, and separately good.  Spamming their bugtracker with our mistakes doesn't seem like good community practice: I know many Debian maintainers who voluntarily use launchpad, but I think it should be by choice.
<ScottK> OTOH, you might get a little tired of Ubuntu unique stuff getting reported in Debian.
<man-di_> broonie: hello my first debian sponsor
<broonie> :)
<ScottK> You can get a feel for the discussion here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-July/023895.html
<man-di_> ScottK: thats right, for cases where people want to have packages in sync its good to forward, otherwise its probably not a good idea to blindly forward
<ScottK> And joe end-user really has no idea if it should be forwarded or not.
<man-di_> ScottK: right
* ScottK very rarely reports bugs to Debian that don't include a patch.  
<StevenK> For me, s/that.*//
<ScottK> From my POV it's the difference between downstream whining and downstream contributing.
* minghua is a MOTU, subscribed to LP bugmail of packages he maintains, but definitely doesn't want automatic bug forwarding to Debian BTS.
<ScottK> They aren't talking about automatic.
<ScottK> Just manual by anyone with an LP account (which is about the same level of badness in my view).
<minghua> ScottK: Sorry, my falt.  s/automatic/random LP user's/
<persia> I'd agree with Ian: it's a *Debian* decision.  Having LP provide an interface that would allow individual DDs to sign up makes sense, but blindly forwarding may annoy both the DDs who like Ubuntu and those that don't.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no, in -qa.
<Hobbsee> persia: true that
<ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.  I missed that in the discussion.  That helps a little.
<persia> Even for -qa, it's not that hard to copy & paste a nice email to the BTS, and then link them once you get the reply.  It also means that the -qa member is committing to follow-up with the DD if anything is required, which LP-assisted bug reporting doesn't achieve.
<persia> (plus, the barrier for entry to QA is surprisingly low)
<broonie> persia: Why does the launchpad assistedness make any difference there?
<minghua> I'm all for making it easy to forward bugs (transfer reports, attachments, etc.), but I think the forwarding should be done (or enabled for anyone to do) by the Debian maintainer.
<Hobbsee> persia: was in the initial post, i believe
<Hobbsee> persia: true - and it's getting lower, i think
<persia> broonie: See Ian's mail (linked earlier by Scott).  Basically, the use of a web form generates different content than the writing of an email.  Also, clicking a button to forward to the BTS doesn't necessarily give the QA member the necessary sense of responsibility.
<persia> Hobbsee: yep - I'm fully in agreement with Ian on this, and have almost nothing to add :)
<ScottK> The big question is, is this something Ubuntu should unilaterally or only after agreement with Debian.  I tend to think the latter.
<broonie> persia: I agree about the different content bit, it was specifically the commitment to following up that raised my eyebrow.
<persia> broonie: Perhaps not for everyone, but for me clicking a button seems less personal than drafting an email.  The email makes me think a little harder (and I've actually uploaded something to Ubuntu twice before sending the bug report to Debian, just to make extra sure).
<ScottK> I also worry about the e-mail design issues.  How is this design going to interact with various e-mail authentication/authorization technologies (e.g. SPF)?
<broonie> persia: True. You may well end up with something like displaying a confirmation screen allowing editing of the e-mail afterwards.
<persia> broonie: Maybe, but I'm not sure that achieves the desired affect.  Not everyone uses a webclient for email.
<TheMuso> With the packages I really care about, I'm usually in contact with Debian, and upstream anyway.
<broonie> persia: Yup.
<RainCT> is the prefix number on .dpatch files just random or does it have a meaning?
<broonie> persia: I can't see a web interface ever being ideal.
<TheMuso> RainCT: Its best to use one to indicate the order that the patches get applied.
<persia> RainCT: By convention, it's the order in which the patches should be applied, but this is only a convention: the order is actually controlled by 00list
<ScottK> Given that Debian has already decided they actively don't want a web interface to BTS, it seems presumptious of LP to provide one.
<persia> broonie: Right.  If it were, there'd be a web interface to the BTS already :)
<RainCT> ok, thanks. tought it is the order, but on the 00list there is 13 before 10 lol
<broonie> persia: Well, the situation with forwarding bugs from LP (when used with care) is substantially different to that for Debian users.
<broonie> For example, the dependency information is a lot less useful and LP has some e-mail validation.
<persia> broonie: Should it be?  For myself, I tend to check in sid to make sure I can replicate beforehand, at which point I'm a Debian user :)  I've still had bugs rejected by maintainers who tell me that sid isn't stable enough to use.
<broonie> WTF?
<man-di_> persia: jerks
<persia> broonie: Transitions sometimes break things - they can be fixed in the time it takes to triage the bug properly, if it's sufficiently obscure.
<persia> man-di_: Not really.  I'd only apply that to those that refuse to use my patches because they don't want to take back from Ubuntu.
<broonie> persia: That should be a "sorry, $TRANSITION is causing some upset which should settle down shortly" not "sid is a FPOS, get lost".
* man-di_ agrees with broonie 
<persia> broonie: No worries.  People are generally relatively polite: it was more "Could you please retest with Etch or Lenny?  Sid is likely to experience issues that might contribute to the problem" when it was a sid-only version.
<TheMuso> WOw. A package I maintain/care about has just switched to GPL3 for a new upstream version.
<man-di_> TheMuso: then you have fun with all the license incompatiblities now, cool
<TheMuso> man-di_: Thats what I am worried about, as I am no licensing expert.
<TheMuso> I think the upstream author switched just because he thought he should, not so much that that he gains/benefits from it.
<TheMuso> Or that others gain/benefit from it.
<StevenK> TheMuso: espeak?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Yup.
* StevenK nods. I saw that in LWN.
* ScottK realizes he forgot to read LWN last week....
<man-di_> TheMuso: here is a nice table for you: http://gplv3.fsf.org/dd3-faq
<TheMuso> Added to that that I think he has altered the ABI, so I need to check that also.
<TheMuso> man-di_: Thanks.
<TheMuso> meh. Never been a fan of tables.
<StevenK> ScottK: You subscribe?
<ScottK> Yes
* StevenK also does, but doesn't pay.
* ScottK has to pay, but it's worth it.
* ScottK has read it since before you had to pay, actually.
<StevenK> ScottK: DD perk is free LWN subscription, paid for by HP.
<ScottK> Nice.  No such luck for me.
<RAOF> StevenK: Cool.
<RAOF> Wow.  Nouveau really knows how to spew text into Xorg.log.  1.6 Mb of it.
<ScottK> I started reading it well before I even used Linux.  Part of getting ready.
<StevenK> I read it before you had to pay, too. I stopped when you had to, and picked it up when HP introduced that.
<StevenK> RAOF: Does it actually work?
<RAOF> StevenK: Not this week, hence the 1.6 mb debug spew.  It was working last week, though :)
<StevenK> Heh
* StevenK decides to not risk his shiny new 7300GS.
<RAOF> For a sufficiently lenient defitition of the word "work"
* RAOF suggests you get a renouveau dump of it, at least.  That uses the nvidia official driver, so should be safer
<StevenK> Hrm. They had a table. Where did that bugger off to?
<TheMuso> http://gplv3.fsf.org/dd3-faq
<StevenK> The Nouveau table, not the GPLv3 table. :-P
<TheMuso> oh
<TheMuso> ok
<StevenK> RAOF: What card?
<RAOF> StevenK: Which one were you thinking of?  The "todo" table, or the "renouveau dump" table
<RAOF> 7600 go
<StevenK> RAOF: There was a table that had the NV series and what worked, didn't and was being worked on.
<RAOF> Until I updated, glxgears worked.  As long as width <= height, at least
<RAOF> StevenK: No longer.  That's not being updated for some reason.
<StevenK> Ah.
<StevenK> Where do I get this renouveau thing?
<RAOF> StevenK: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/REnouveau
<TheMuso> Is there a relatively simple way to determine whether a library's symbols have changed enough that requires apps that depend on it to be rebuilt?
<StevenK> Try an app?
<persia> TheMuso: Does the library come with a testsuite?
<TheMuso> persia: No.
<RAOF> TheMuso: It really should be possible to automate that, I think.  Strip out all the new symbols, and see if any of the remnants have changed?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Well I've tried that, and all looks good so far.
<TheMuso> RAOF: All the new symbols?
<TheMuso> As in, how would one do that?
<persia> TheMuso: Well then.  The best way is to use the testsuite from the old version.  Without that, try some apps.  You might not exercise everything, but you should notice if there are large changes.
<TheMuso> And how would one compare them?
<broonie> vorlon was doing some work on that in Debian.
<RAOF> TheMuso: diff? :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: Certainly not on the binary...
<persia> TheMuso: Use objdump to get something in text before using diff.
<RAOF> You can dump the symbols from a lib.
<shawarma> nm -T to see the symbols, and grep magic to find their prototypes from the header files or whatever. It's not perfect (public structs may have changed, etc.), but any changes found this way will most probably cause problems.
<TheMuso> shawarma: Ok thanks.
<RAOF> StevenK: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/ToDo is the closest thing to a "what's working" list.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Which library?
<TheMuso> shawarma: Comparing espeak 1.26's shared lib to the one that gets built in 1.27. There was a mention ni the changelog about stuff being added to the initialize call.
<mruiz> hi all
<shawarma> TheMuso: Um, make that "nm -D --defined-symbols". I'm an idiot.
* RAOF is off to bed to read some Jane Austin.  Good night, all1
<TheMuso> ok
<StevenK> Jane Austin?
<StevenK> Oh geez.
<RAOF> Ok, and maybe there'll be some sleep, too :P
<mruiz> Today is REVU day?
<ryanakca> night RAOF, and, I think I've found the guilty line of code...
<TheMuso> shawarma: What sort of differences am I looking for? I see numbers, single letters, and then the name of the functions from the header.
<mruiz> hi dholbach . REVU day ?
<shawarma> TheMuso: Just the name, actually.
<ryanakca> mruiz: I believe so
<shawarma> TheMuso: If anything has removed, we're screwed.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Anything added is fine.
<TheMuso> shawarma: Right.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Now, using the list of functions exposed, find their prototypes from the header files.
<dholbach> mruiz: I'm at a conference at the moment and involved in a bunch of discussions and other things and just going through heaps of emails, so I'm not sure I'll find a lot of time for REVUing
<shawarma> TheMuso: Hang on, though. I'm looking at the source right now. They seem to have some sort of handling for it.
<dholbach> mruiz: I hope you find somebody else to review
<mruiz> thanks dholbach :-)
<ScottK> mruiz: What package?
<mruiz> hi ScottK : archmage, deluge-torrent, fetchyahoo
<TheMuso> shawarma: They actually have a comment in the header, calling it API revision 2. Should this mean a soname bump?
<ScottK> Pick one that has the best chance of me liking it
<ryanakca> ScottK: aoeui released 1.0.3
<persia> mruiz: You'll get the best response with the name of the package, the REVU URL, and a note indicating whether it's new, it's fixes from a comment, or it's waiting for a second advocate.
<ScottK> mruiz: What persia said.
<mruiz> thanks persia 
<persia> TheMuso: Generally, that's a strong indication a transition is required.
<mruiz> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5911  I need a comment about it
* persia repeats
<shawarma> TheMuso: They comment that they bumped the API version because they added the options argument to the init function.
<mruiz> ScottK: all my packages are "upgrades"
<ScottK> OK.
<TheMuso> shawarma: Yeah I know.
<TheMuso> But that doesn't necessarily mean a soname bump does it?
<shawarma> TheMuso: However, I'm not entirely sure whether the fact that stuff doesn't break when adding an arg to the end of the list is a coincidence or by the C's design.
<persia> mruiz: For upgrades, it's best to indicate it's an upgrade in a REVU comment, make sure there's an upgrade bug in LP, and subscribe U-U-S (or U-M-S if required) for sponsorship.
<RainCT> keescook: (a patch for non-i386 architectures for Open Invaders is in progress upstream :))
<broonie> It's blind luck; at best you'll be passing random junk in to the last argument.
<persia> If it's a new argument to the init function, everything should be recompiled, or it won't initialise properly.
<ScottK> mruiz: Why are we jumping Debian for deluge-torrent?  
<TheMuso> Ok. But I want to be clear on the soname stuff. I am guessing a soname bump isn't needed, because it hasn't been done, but I want to be sure.
<persia> TheMuso: If you don't do a soname bump, you'll have a manual transition with breakage (perhaps you remember libhunspell a couple months ago).
<TheMuso> persia: No I don't.
<ScottK> mruiz: Same question for fetchyahoo?
<TheMuso> I generally stay away from stuff like that, as I don't yet understand it.
<ryanakca> Umm... any python genius feel like helping me with rdsc? (It's a quick script that I wrote that uploads a .dsc to a server in an incomming dir, and then runs a script on the server side that moves it to queued pbuilds it, (if successful, puts the built stuff in local repo) and sticks the build log on the local webserver.
<TheMuso> But since things are changing here, I need to understand it to know the best path forward.
<mruiz> Scottk: I'm preparing my answer
<ScottK> OK.
<ryanakca> s/queued pbuilds/queued, pbuilds/g
<persia> TheMuso: bug 111940
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 111940 in openoffice.org "libhunspell-1.1-0 1.1.5-6: Incompatible ABI change" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/111940
<shawarma> TheMuso: It's fine.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Don't worry about it.
<shawarma> TheMuso: Adding an extra arg to the end of a function doesn't break backwards compatibilty.
<TheMuso> Ok.
<TheMuso> persia: Will have a read, and then I'm off to bed.
<shawarma> I didn't think it did, and infinity just confirmed it in #u-d
<persia> shawarma: Except when it's the initialisation function, in which case old apps might not get a working environment.
<ScottK> mr
<ScottK> Oops
<shawarma> persia: Depends on the library. 
<mruiz> ScottK, the bug #124527 was related to upgrade the version of deluge-torrent in Ubuntu and Debian. I uploaded my version before debian maintainer prepared a new version.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124527 in deluge-torrent "new upstream version available 0.5.2" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124527
<ScottK> mruiz: As you've no doubt guessed I would ask, same question about archmage.
<shawarma> persia: It can handle it gracefully if it wants.
<persia> shawarma: True.
<persia> TheMuso: You'll have to inspect the code to see if it's safe :)
<TheMuso> persia: Right.
<shawarma> persia: espeak in particular has a #define API_VERSION or something to that effect, so it can know whether to use the new arg or just ignore it.
* persia thinks versioned libraries with different interfaces deserve a soname bump, but hasn't investigated espeak, and so is likely wrong in this case.
<shawarma> persia: Whether it does so or not remains to be determined, but the very fact that they realize that they need to update the API, but didn't bump the soname (which I assume they didn't) hints that they know what they're doing.
<ScottK> mruiz: Since the candidate package for deluge-torrent is on mentors waiting for sponsorship, I don't see a lot of value in doing an Ubuntu unique upload.  I'd say just watch it and file a sync request.  We've plenty of time to UVF.
<ScottK> mruiz: Maybe StevenK or man-di_ would want to sponsor it: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/d/deluge-torrent
<persia> If upstream provides a reliable orig.tar.gz syncing -1 over -0ubuntu1 only gives us more testing (but it's better if the packaging is mostly the same).
<ScottK> persia: Yes, but if it's already on mentors it's only a matter of a few days difference.
<ScottK> mruiz: What about the other two packages?
<persia> ScottK: True.  I guess it depends on the status of the package (I've never used mentors)
<ScottK> persia: In my experience I've always gotten stuff uploaded in a day or two.
<mruiz> ScottK: I understand... I did it before only ;-) (My package : Saturday / Debian mentor: Sunday) 
<ScottK> Right.
<ScottK> mruiz: I appreciate your effort, but in this case I think we're better off just to wait and sync.  Another MOTU may feel different.
<TheMuso> Ok, I am a little more confused, but I will look at it with a fresher mind, tomorrow.
<mruiz> then, how time should I to waitfor Debian-related work?
<persia> ScottK: makes sense.  Commenting about mentors in the REVU may also be good.
* ScottK just did.
<ScottK> mruiz: Generally I'd e-mail the Debian maintainer and find out their intent.
* persia leaves with a satisfied air, wishing TheMuso luck with the transition
<mruiz> ScottK: thanks for this tip
<ScottK> mruiz: If the other two packages do not have an imminent Debian upload, you might want to consider changing distro/version and uploading them to Debian yourself (just make sure they build in a Sid pbuilder).
<ScottK> More people can benifit from your work that way.
<mruiz> interesting...
<ScottK> mruiz: Why don't you check with the maintainers on the other two and if they don't have something in the works, let us know here and then we'll look at them for upload to Ubuntu.
<mruiz> how is the process to upload "ubuntu" packages to Debian ?
<ScottK> mruiz: See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian
<ScottK> mruiz: 
<mruiz> ScottK, I will contact Debian maintainer of the packages
<ScottK> mruiz: If the Debian maintainers aren't working on the updated packages, you should let us know here.  If they are interested, but busy, then you can (with distro/version adujustments) upload them to mentors so the DD can upload them if they want.
<ScottK> OK
<ScottK> Good $TIME_OF_DAY leonel.  Gotten any Dapper clamav backport testing done?
<leonel> ScottK: only clamav    and worked  fine  
<ScottK> Good.  What are you using it with?  I don't recall.
<leonel> only tested  clamav  
<leonel> this afternoon  I'll setup a real mailserver  
<leonel> with clamav  clamsmtp  in dapper
<leonel> I'll let you know  how it went
<ScottK> Cool.
<leonel> maybe in 2 hours I'll start
<ScottK> Be sure and add the info to the wiki page.
<ScottK> Great.
<dholbach> TheMuso, Lutin, geser: can you PLEASE add a copyright notice to your scripts in https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools
<dholbach> PLEASE
<mruiz> bye all !
<geser> dholbach: there is no script of mine, I only patched the existing one
<dholbach> oh ok, thanks geser
* ScottK gets sick of reviewing cr@p packages on REVU and quits.
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> you could just...archive all the bad ones...or something
<ScottK> Might wear out the button on my touchpad.
<ScottK> That and I just love the "Oh, this doesn't need a review for upload, I just put it here for X".
* minghua thinks it would be nice to have a grading system on REVU.
<ScottK> And also the ones that do a new upload after they got rejected by the archive admins, don't mention it, and don't fix the reason they got rejected.
* ScottK reads about "The ongoing fallocate() story" on LWN and gets a headache.
<LucidFox> new upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5936
<ScottK> keescook: Looking at this http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=23961 security bug in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnet-dns-perl it appears there is a vulnerability in our released versions.  Is this something that you think is worth fixing?
<sacater> hmm, how do I delete one of my wiki pages
<sacater> on wiki.ubuntu.com
<ScottK> sacater: I think you need to ask someone with admin rights to do that.  No idea how one goes about it.  I'd suggest searching the wiki because I recall it being discussed there.
<sacater> ScottK: thanks
<sacater> ScottK: wiki.ubuntu.com/Q+ADays
<Hobbsee> sacater: you can - there's a delete page thing on the list of options of things you can do, on the page
<Hobbsee> on the drop down box
<sacater> aha
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Thanks for the correction.
* sacater lookes
<sacater> Hobbsee: thanks
<Hobbsee> no problem
<leonel> ScottK:  dapper  + clamav0.93 from kitterman.org   + clamsmtp   working  !
<ScottK> leonel: The dapper version of clamsmtp (1.6 something)?
<LucidFox> may I release my packaging under GPLv3 and above?
<LucidFox> (that is, in debian/copyright)
<ScottK> Sure.
<ScottK> You will need to put a full copy of the license in debian/copyright since that's not an installed license yet (AFIAK).
<minghua> Depend on what license the package in under, actually.
<LucidFox> BSD
<minghua> Then sure.
<leonel> ScottK: yes it is 
<ScottK> leonel: Great.  Please add that to the wiki page then.
<minghua> Although I always recommend licensing your packaging the same as the package.
* ScottK expects anything that uses clamd will work then.
<ScottK> LucidFox: Why do you want to do that?
<leonel> ScottK: let me check the status for clamsmtpd   it there are any bugs to be fixed 
<LucidFox> well, no reason other than my firm belief in GPL3 :)
<leonel> ScottK: since  clamsmtpd  is  1.9  and as yuy say  dapper has  1.6
<ScottK> leonel: The point with now is to find out what MUST be backported with a new clamav.  Thanks to your testing, clamsmtpd is NOT one we need to worry about.  Not that a backport wouldn't be desireable, just not required.
<minghua> LucidFox: not a very good reason IMHO.
<leonel> ScottK: Ok
<ScottK> leonel: Of course that also likely means that clamsmtpd could be backported independent of clamav version, so no need to wait if the new clamsmptd works with the old clamav (I expect it will).
<nixternal> holy smokes you are cool! :)
<ScottK> Who?
<nixternal> all of you I guess :)
* ScottK reads revu comment mail and starts a list of people not to waste time reviewing packages from.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: heh.  sometimes, i'd like an internal list like that
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and one for the ones who learn from their mistakes, or dont
<ScottK> Right.
<minghua> I said grading system for REVU would be nice. :-)
<Hobbsee> minghua: please write one :)
* minghua is not a programmer.
<Hobbsee> darn
<ScottK> One piece of advice for those who want packages reviewed: If a MOTU says "Please do X in the future so I don't waste my time with Y", don't write back and say wasting my time wasn't be big deal.
<Hobbsee> uhhhh...what?
<sacater> update-manager -d is claiming that 7.10 is available
<minghua> ScottK: Who did that?
<sacater> does that mean its an oficial test
<sacater> i mean
<sacater> beta
<sacater> or is it the tribe?
<ScottK> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5592
<ScottK> That's not a direct quote, but that was my reaction to the last comment.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: he's....usually better than that.
<ScottK> He's also the one that did a new upload after getting rejected by the archive admins without fixing the reason for the rejection or explaining that there was a problem in a comment.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yummy
<Hobbsee> REVU annoys me like that.  there's so much of it
<sacater> to upgrade to 7.10 or not
<sacater> taht is the question
<Hobbsee> wait
<geser> Hobbsee: the next time you upload a bzr version please run bzr export to not ship the .bzr dir
<Hobbsee> geser: oh, point.
<Hobbsee> so *that*'s why it hasnt liked my other uploads
<Hobbsee> wait.  casper ships with a .bzr/, i thought
<geser> Hobbsee: I haven't checked yet why it FTBFS
<Hobbsee> geser: mvo's looking into it
<Hobbsee> geser: apt is "special"
<geser> apt_0.7.2ubuntu4.tar.gz: 1.7 MB, apt_0.7.2ubuntu6.tar.gz: 25 MB
<Hobbsee> sheesh
<geser> $ du -sh apt-0.7.2ubuntu6/.bzr/
<geser> 28M     apt-0.7.2ubuntu6/.bzr/
<Hobbsee> yeah
<sacater> is it safe to upgrade to 7.10 yet?
<ScottK> No
<sacater> doh
<ScottK> No is a good general answer, but particularly right now, definitely no.
<sacater> apt breaks?
<Hobbsee> yes
<geser> and curl
<nixternal> not if you leave them in the "do not install" state :)
<ScottK> OOO too.
* ScottK notes a new OOO i386 started an hour ago, so (crosses fingers) maybe tomorrow that will be resolved.
<Hobbsee> oh that'd be nice.
<Hobbsee> i do actually need ooo to work for a while, to write something useful, like a resume.
<LucidFox> Anyway, new upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5937
<ScottK> LucidFox: When I see things like "+<possible notes regarding this package - if none, delete this file>" in the diff, I conclude that you aren't serious about wanting the package uploaded.  At least fill out/remove the boilerplate.
<LucidFox> Ouch.
<LucidFox> Usually I don't forget to remove README.debian
<ScottK> That's not the first time I've seen that today, so I may be a little touchy on the subject.
<nixternal> I keep the README.debian and put "For a good time call ScottK" in it :p
<LucidFox> lol
* ScottK takes the laptop away from the desktop with IRC running to reduce the tempation to avoid actual work.
<ScottK> Not to mention avoiding grafitti spewing Vista lovers.
<nixternal> oooh, that was low
<LucidFox> reuploaded
<leonel> ScottK:  mimedefang is listed on  clamav  rdepend  and clamav is listed as  suggest for mimedefang    but if I remove  libclamav2 and clamav   mimedefang  does not gets marked for removal  
<leonel> ScottK: I think  It's  like  clamsmtp  that works with a socket to talk to clamav  and not uses   libclamav2
<geser> Hobbsee: I've build successfully apt 0.7.2ubuntu6 in a current gutsy pbuilder on amd64, so I wonder why it FTBFS
<Hobbsee> geser: so have i.  it's a pbuilder vs sbuild thing, it seems.
<Hobbsee> and other screwy things
<dholbach> lionel: when do you mark bugs as 'fix released'?
<dholbach> lionel: and when as 'fix committed'?
<dholbach> once stuff is uploaded you can mark it as 'fix released'
<leonel> ScottK: same for  Mailscanner   they talk to the clamav daemon
<LucidFox> what's sbuild?
<azeem> something similar to pbuilder
<nixternal> I heard it is the Ferrari of builders
<lionel> dholbach: we use to mark as fix committed when it was uploaded, and fixed released when built
<nixternal> ;)
<dholbach> lionel: ok, that's fine with me
<dholbach> I just came across a bunch of fix committed sponsoring bugs
<lionel> but now we LP close bugs on uploads, i'm not sure it makes sense
<lionel> We had a discussion about that one time
<lionel> We just have to be consistent
<sommer> leonel: Are you working on the mimedefang using ScottK's clamav package?
<leonel> sommer: just installed  and read the info  really didn't tested   
<leonel> sommer: checking if it could be installed or not  and how it works  
<sommer> leonel: cool I just didn't want to duplicate work if you were taking that package.
<leonel> sommer:  and  yes needs to test that package 
<leonel> sommer: but I'm really short in time to read and understand all what that package needs to be tested  
<leonel> sommer: but installed fine 
<sommer> leonel: that's cool I can dig into some this week. 
<sommer> I just confirmed that p3scan works with the new clamav.
<leonel> sommer: great  
<sommer> funny thing...this weekedn I spent like 2 hours trying to download a virus to test.
<sommer> then came to work this morning and had like 3 in by inbox.
<leonel> :)
<leonel> sommer: clamav-testfiles  
<leonel> sommer: there's a deb with test files 
<leonel> sommer: http://www.kitterman.com/clamav/clamav-testfiles_0.90.3-1ubuntu2~dapper1_all.deb
<sommer> ya, I tried those, but I wanted to be sure it caught a "live" one.
<Nafallo> hehe. nice. we should advertise that as a feature.
<Nafallo> in Ubuntu, we package viruses for YOUR pleasure
<sommer> heh :)
<leonel> Nafallo: WE are a  BIG  windows virus  working to smash  bug 1
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<Nafallo> ;-)
<leonel> mimedefang  works with sendmail ..   :(
<norsetto> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5851 is looking for reviewers!
<norsetto> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5907 is also looking for reviewers!!
<zul> leonel: i think mimedefang is suppose to work with sendmail ;)
<leonel> zul: I know  but I use postfix .. that's why my :(    so I can test it with  ScottK clamav
<zul> some of these "deriatives" are getting annoynig
<Nafallo> zul: like... Kubuntu? :-)
<zul> http://ubuntusoftware.info/Ubuntu_Ultimate_CD/
<zul> i like apt errors in their screenshots
<Nafallo> zul: kewl. they are breaking trademark I think :-)
<zul> just a bit
<ScottK> leonel: Sounds like you are doing good work on testing.  Please keep it up.
<ScottK> We do need Sendmail users to test stuff too if any are around.
* ScottK just uses Postfix (aka real MTA) like leonel.
<Nafallo> I had to play with sendmail at work today
<Nafallo> I want to burn the fucking box as soon I've migrated to postfix @ Ubuntu :-)
<ScottK> leonel: The current clamassassin 1.2.4 in Gutsy is compatible with both the new and old clamav (via config file) so it would make sense to go ahead and request a backport of that.
<ScottK> leonel: Would you check and see if the current clamassassin builds/runs on Dapper?
<holst> I would like to make a module-assistant compatible package of a kernel module which need to patch the kernel source
<holst> How can I go about to do this?
<leonel> ScottK: ok   
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks.
* Nafallo knows ScottK is a god when it comes to module-assistant ;-)
<Nafallo> or rather. I know I ain't that :-)
<holst> ScottK: information wants to be free and GPL:ed =D
* ScottK knows less than Nafallo about kernel stuff.
<holst> I have looked at the monster package openafs
* ScottK wonders about #ubuntu-kernel...
<holst> hehe, ok I wonder there, thx =D
<Nafallo> :-P
* ScottK activates his "Somebody else's problem" field and gets back to coding.
<zul> ScottK: thanks
<ScottK> For?
<ScottK> zul?
<zul> 14:23  * ScottK activates his "Somebody else's problem" field and gets back to coding.
<ScottK> Ah.  You're welcome.
<leonel> ScottK:  gutsy  clamassassin  and  clamsmtpd  builded in dapper's pbuilder  installed  tested  all worked  GOOD with clamav 0.93 
<ScottK> leonel: Great.  Why don't you file a dapper-backport bug for clamassassin as I know we'll need that to backport clamav and then put a link to it on the wiki.
<leonel> ScottK: for clamsmtp no ?
<leonel> ScottK: even there's a new  clamsmtp  1.9  and gutsy has 1.8 
<superm1> ScottK, I just saw your comment on my bug 124935, did you not see my previous comment that it was on revu?
<ScottK> leonel: I'd say not yet.  The backports team has a limited throughput and we don't NEED a new clamsmtp to upgrade clamav, so I'd suggest holding off on that one.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124935 in mythbuntu-default-settings "Please pull in newer revision, 0.3" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124935
<ScottK> superm1: I did.  There's no need to file a bug for that.  I just confuses things.
<ScottK> I/It
* ScottK goes off to test the code he just wrote (shouldn't take long he says, "Famous last words").
<superm1> ScottK, to that effect, could you look over the upload at revu?
<ScottK> Not just now, no.
<ScottK> With any luck (and I didn't eff up the coding to badly) I'll be doing a release today.
<ScottK> I need to concentrate on that.
<superm1> i see :)
<leonel> ok
<leonel> ScottK: the clamassasin backport from gutsy to dapper  it needs  clamav 0.93  ...  how will this be handled ?
<leonel> ScottK: the backport will be from gutsty to dapper ?
<leonel> ScottK: bug 124938
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124938 in dapper-backports "Please Backport Clamassassin from gutsy to dapper" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124938
<leonel> is it right ?
<tsmithe> hi all
<tsmithe> is there a motu around with a little spare time to check out/upload a couple of packages i've re-uploaded to revu after rejection from the archive (copyright issues)? ubuntustudio-sounds and usplash-theme-ubuntustudio are the packages
<tsmithe> thanks :)
<tsmithe> man-di_, you around? did you get my e-mail(s)? (been having trouble with postfix, as you'll know if my latest one got to you)
<man-di_> tsmithe: yes, got it
<tsmithe> excellent :)
<man-di_> tsmithe: but I was not able to check it yet, hard disk crash
<tsmithe> heh unlucky; i hope you get it recovered
<man-di_> tsmithe: I'm doing backups so its not that bad
<man-di_> tsmithe: it just takes time to re-setup stuff
<tsmithe> ahh ok then; still a pain though
<man-di_> tsmithe: yes
<man-di_> tsmithe: perhaps I find a chroot on another machine...
<tsmithe> that would be cool
<frafu> Hello, I am trying to build my first .deb package from a C source. I am following this howto: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-debhelper.html .  I had to add among others libdbus-glib-1-dev to debian/control. I now get the error that apt-get does not find it. However, it is present in the Synaptic Package Manager. Don't they use the same sources.list? Can  anybody please help me? 
<ScottK> leonel: Clamassassin shouldn't need the new clamav.  According to it's documenation, it can handle either version.  If the clamassassin package has a dependency on the newer clamav version, then mention in the bug that it needs to be adjusted.
<superm1> Hi frafu, are you building it in pbuilder?
<superm1> or just the local env. via debuild or dpkg-buildpackage
<frafu> yes, i think
<bluekuja> frafu, do you know what the function of a pbuilder?
<frafu> I am using the guide cited above 
<bluekuja> frafu, yeah, but please answer my question
<superm1> so you are building via something to the like of pbuilder build NAME.dsc
<bluekuja> frafu, install the pbuilder package
<leonel> ScottK: you are right   it does not need the new clamav  for build
<bluekuja> frafu, and then update pbuilder tarball to gutsy editing conf file in /etc/pbuilder
<bluekuja> frafu, via sudo pbuilder update or sudo pbuilder update --basetgz /where/tarball/is
<frafu> pbuilder is installed 
<bluekuja> frafu, great! :)
<bluekuja> frafu, now create the tarball
<bluekuja> if not already done
<bluekuja> via sudo pbuilder create
<bluekuja> you can use --basetgz option too 
<bluekuja> to define where you can place it
<bluekuja> e.g for multiple tarballs (gutsy, unstable and so on)
<frafu> ok;  I will update to gutsy. 
<bluekuja> frafu, sounds good
<bluekuja> frafu, if you have any doubt on how to do it, I'm here
<superm1> bluekuja, how did you know he didn't have a gutsy pbuilder generated from what he said there?
<bluekuja> superm1, this phrase says everything:
<bluekuja> frafu> yes, i think
<superm1> ah the ' i think ' :)
<bluekuja> :)
<superm1> good call there then
<bluekuja> tnx :)
<xxxxx1> bye all
<Nightrose> Kmos: thx @ klogshow
<soothsayer> Anybody have a debarchiver.conf configured for Ubuntu?
<frafu> bluekuja: When I type this: sudo pbuilder update --basetgz /var/cache/pbuilder/,  I get:  /home/frafu/.pbuilderrc does not exist; but there is a tarball in /var/cache/pbuilder/
<bluekuja> frafu, where did you create the tarball?
<bluekuja> on default dir?
<bluekuja> e.g pbuilder create
<frafu> yes, 
<bluekuja> without adding basetgz?
<frafu> sudo pbuilder create
<bluekuja> ok
<bluekuja> thewn
<bluekuja> *then
<bluekuja> just do sudo pbuilder update
<bluekuja> and it will work
<bluekuja> you don't have to specify the basetgz if it has been created in default dir
<bluekuja> (/var/cache/pbuilder)
<frafu> ok; how does he know to update to gutsy? 
<bluekuja> you have to modify conf file
<bluekuja> in /etc/pbuilder
<frafu> ok
<bluekuja> this way
<bluekuja> sudo gedit /etc/pbuilder/pbuilderrc
<frafu> i will look at the conf
<bluekuja> just use that comment, and you'll figure out :)
<bluekuja> frafu, I give you one more hint
<bluekuja> DISTRIBUTION=gutsy
<bluekuja> is the place :)
<bluekuja> frafu, remember to un-comment COMPONENTS field
<bluekuja> so you have universe/multiverse active too
<frafu> However the .deb should be for feisty. Will that not be a problem? 
<bluekuja> frafu, that change things :)
<bluekuja> just use feisty then
<bluekuja> as distribution
<superm1> frafu, development here happens to target gutsy, if you wanted to get this into the archive, it should build in a gutsy pbuilder as well
<bluekuja> frafu, as superm1 says if you want to get it included in gutsy, you have to test it with a gutsy pbuilder
<bluekuja> if is a personal test
<bluekuja> you're choice
<bluekuja> :)
<superm1> (personally) I keep around several pbuilders, dapper, edgy, feisty, gutsy - so that I can easily test it across a few of them if i'd like to backport
<bluekuja> same 
<superm1> there is a set of scripts out there to easily switch among them
<frafu> no, it is a new application; I wanted to build the dbian package and post it in the forums if people wanted to test it... 
<bluekuja> frafu, yeah, a NEW app can be included as well
<bluekuja> so consider it as valid to join the archive, maybe pushing it to REVU
<bluekuja> so you can get a review
<frafu> I am not the developer; it is from a GSoC. (mousetweaks. In the forum, there was a person who wanted to test it, but was not able to compile it. (It works on my ubuntu feisty). So I decided to try to make a .deb
<bluekuja> frafu, ok then^^
<frafu> i have uncommented COMPONENTS
<frafu> to also enable universe 
<bluekuja> frafu, perfect, now just update, and you're done
<frafu> update gives me the help of pbuilder
<frafu> !? 
<bluekuja> ?
<frafu> as if you type pbuilder -h
<bluekuja> frafu, impossible^^
<frafu> typo
<bluekuja> ^^
<frafu> Another question: how can I determine all the dependencies of a package? From the imports of the C source? 
<frafu> update ok
<man-di_> frafu: try and error with pbuilder
<bluekuja> yup
<bluekuja> until you get everything correct
<bluekuja> e.g running configure
<bluekuja> during package build
<frafu> deb build or during compile? 
<bluekuja> frafu, before creating a deb, package have to compile
<bluekuja> so this question has no sense
<bluekuja> :
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> frafu, anyway you'll see how pbuilder works!
<bluekuja> when ready...just do sudo pbuilder build app-name-version.dsc
<frafu> yes, it compiles on my machine and I noted all the -dev i had to install
<bluekuja> of course, --basetgz option is valid here too
<bluekuja> if needed
<bluekuja> cool
<bluekuja> :)
<frafu> but these are the headers needed for the compilation. Will the dependencies of the compiled package be automatically deduced from the headers? 
<frafu> bluekuja: I have to leave no; it is getting late here. Many thanks for your help; I understand a bit better what is going on. (It still does not find the dev, as if pbuilder still is only looking at main; even though I uncommented COMPONENTS and did an update.) I will give it another try tomorrow. 
<apachelogger> ah woooh
<apachelogger> ScottK: ping
<tsmithe> hmm apt-cache madison shows ubuntustudio-look in the source repository, but i'm wondering why the binaries still haven't shown up...
<tsmithe> it's not just an issue on the gb mirror, i don't think
<tsmithe> http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/source/ubuntustudio-look seems ominous
<man-di_> tsmithe: FTBFS ?
<tsmithe> nope
<tsmithe> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8327975/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.ubuntustudio-look_0.5_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<geser> tsmithe: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=studio
<geser> it sits in the binary NEW queue
<tsmithe> ahhh thanks
<tsmithe> i had assumed that once it was built, it was published
<geser> that's true for known debs
<tsmithe> righty
<geser> but the first time every deb has to pass the NEW queue
<tsmithe> makes sense
<superm1> same thing as the source package, it has to pass the NEW queue at first as well
<tsmithe> yes
<docta_v> my debian package is trying to create a /.deb on install
<docta_v> i don't understand why
<minghua> docta_v: What do you mean by "create a /.deb on install"?  Do you have /.deb in you package (can be checked by dpkg-deb --contents <your-package>.deb)?
<ScottK> apacheLAGger: Dunno what the ping was for, but pong on my way by.  Ping me with the actual question and I might be able to answer later.
<apacheLAGger> ScottK: just mailed you :)
#ubuntu-motu 2007-07-10
<ScottK> apacheLAGger: No big deal.  I'll get over it.
<apacheLAGger> ScottK: ok ^_^
* apacheLAGger scuttles off to bed
<geser> Hi persia
<geser> I've some build logs for adour from PPA
<persia> geser: Great!  Any clues about pkg-config?
<geser> http://librarian.dogfood.launchpad.net/7747178/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.ardour_1%3A2.0.2-2ubuntu2%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
* TheMuso looks.
<TheMuso> Hey persia, geser.
<geser> scons: Configure: Checking for pkg-config version >= 0.8.0... 
<geser> pkg-config --atleast-pkgconfig-version=0.8.0
<geser> /bin/sh: Syntax error: "(" unexpected
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<jmg> whats dogfood?
<persia> geser: Cool!  We can replicate without the actual buildds :)
<jmg> lp beta?
<geser> that's the same error as in xmms2 before it moved away from scons
<TheMuso> Wow.
<geser> jmg: PPA
<jmg> ppa?
<persia> jmg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eat_one%27s_own_dog_food
<jmg> persia: i know what that means, its our company motto :)
<TheMuso> So am I guessing that its a pkg-config problem?
<jmg> i was just wondering what dogfood.lp.net was
<geser> there was some change on the buildds some time ago, so the error message isn't that verbose as in the beginning
<docta_v> minghua: according to --contents there is no /.deb
<jmg> geser: that looks like a bash to nash error?
<docta_v> but if i install it creates a /.deb
<persia> TheMuso: Except that any recent version of pkg-config really ought to be >> 0.8
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah.
<geser> see bug #87077
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87077 in launchpad-buildd "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87077
<geser> that the bug about the xmms2 build problems with scons
<persia> Worse yet: "Get:55 http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main pkg-config 0.22-1 [52.5kB] " is definitely >> 0.8
<TheMuso> Yeah
<TheMuso> So why does it work for us
<jmg> how come dogfood runs an older build of lp then?
<docta_v> hmm i think i fixed it
<persia> jmg: It's for testing random extra features: not the latest code - see snapshot or beta
<jmg> ok
<geser> TheMuso: it seems to be a bug in sbuild used on the buildds
<TheMuso> Ok
<jmg> also there is no definition on the wiki for ppa
<geser> or the buildd environment
<persia> TheMuso: That's an interesting question.  I'm tempted to try to set up a gutsy schroot under Dapper, but I think the buildd configuration is even more complex than that.
<geser> jmg: personal package archive
<TheMuso> .bbl, breakfast
<geser> the problem is to find someone who has time and can fix it :(
<geser> but I don't understand why only scons triggers this problem
<persia> geser: It's not just scons: there are other strange corner cases to the buildds as well :)
* persia wonders why so many U-U-S queue items have already been handled, yet remain in the queue...
<TheMuso> persia: I'm guessing people have forgotten to unsubscribe uus.
<TheMuso> I always do it now.
<TheMuso> As it does indeed make it easy to know what has been taken.
<persia> TheMuso: Indeed.  Thanks to you for taking the bugs and handling them.  I'll still prod when I find the extras :)
<TheMuso> np. I feel that not enough MOTUs help with this queue actually.
<geser> is xml.etree.ElementTree from python2.5 a full replacement for elementtree.ElementTree from python-elementtree which only supports python2.4?
<persia> TheMuso: I see about 10 active sponsors, and feel that the queue time is acceptable (it no longer takes months to get a review), so I'm not that worried.  More hands are good, but I'd rather 10 committed people than 50 who look once in a while (of course, 50 committed people would be better :) )
<TheMuso> yup
<TheMuso> persia: What do you think of all these packages that are in the queue where the docs are being included in Ubuntu, whereas tey are not in Debian, for license rasons?
<TheMuso> I uploaded one y esterday, as that change had already been allowed in a previous merge, but I am not so sure about changing a package not  yet touched in this way...
<persia> TheMuso: My understanding is that Ubuntu doesn't block on GFDL, but I don't remember why I'm of that opinion.  On the other hand, most of them are waiting for emacs22, and despite a recent promise, I don't see that yet.
<TheMuso> referring to stuff like nxmn-mode  etc
<TheMuso> right
<persia> Did nxmn-mode build?  The ones I tried didn't build properly without the updated emacs.
<TheMuso> haven't tried those.
<TheMuso> I uploaded erc, which did build for me at least.
<TheMuso> Which was the merge.
* persia is generally waiting for emacs22 for all of mwolson's updates
<persia> Does anyone happen to know how often packages.qa.debian.org updates the current versions in the repositories?
<RickH> Hello.  I'm a total newbie to Linux and Ubuntu.  But, I love it.  I am a Windows software developer and would like to learn about Ubuntu/Linux development.
<geser> persia: I'd guess once or twice a day
<persia> RickH: Great!  We're more focused on packaging for Ubuntu than development here, but you'll probably get good support from channels where the name matches your target development environment.  On the other hand, looking at other source packages can be a great way to see how others do it, which can make it easy to learn.
<persia> geser: Thanks.  I'll wait a bit more then :)
<RickH> I'm looking at MOTU/Recipes right now.
<RickH> "Since these are the important goals of Ubuntu:  1) User-friendliness, 2) out-of-the-box workability, 3) bling factor, 4) and many more surprising things"... I like #3. :)
<geser> persia: dinstall is only run twice a day: http://people.debian.org/~joerg/dinstall.html
<geser> and ftp.debian.org is only a normal mirror, so it won't see new packages more often than that
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> kubrick.freenode.net
<persia> geser: Right.  I was looking at a package that is in experimental, but doesn't show yet in packages.qa.debian.org, but as I investigate, I'm beginning to think I'm confusing a meta-package with a provider package.
<superm1> hi persia 
<persia> superm1: Hello
<superm1> persia, I didn't notice an upload this morning after soyuz came back to life.  Could you still do that?
<persia> superm1: Sure.  I'll check my queue again, and if I can't find it, I'll push it again.  Thanks for the reminder.
<superm1> thanks again persia 
<superm1> talk about crazy netsplits going on
<geser> persia: I did another try with ardour on ppa. this time with a call to env
<geser> http://librarian.dogfood.launchpad.net/7747184/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.ardour_1%3A2.0.2-2ubuntu2%7Eppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> the HASH is there
<Kmos> geser: bug 124744
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124744 in balazar "Please sync balazar (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124744
<persia> geser: Interesting.  Any idea what it means?
<superm1> do only ~ubuntu-motu and ~core-dev get access to ppa, or do all ubuntu members get access too?
<persia> Kmos: Isn't balazar dependent on the new libode?
<persia> superm1: At this point, only certain testers have access, which is neither of -motu nor -core-dev.  Later, it will be available to a wider audience.
<Kmos> persia: really don't know
<superm1> persia, launchpad beta testers?
<superm1> or is it another group
* persia thinks it's best to investigate prior to requesting a sync
<persia> superm1: I'm not really the best person to ask.  Sorry.
<superm1> i'll poke around #launchpad.  thx
<geser> persia: the first time it occured I asked on #ubuntu-devel and the guess was that is looks like a perl hash
<geser> Kmos: have you tested if it build in a gutsy pbuilder? what about the needed versions of python-soya and python-cerealizer mentioned in the changelog. are they in gutsy already?
<persia> geser: It does, but I'm not sure how that would get exported to the local environment, but only on the buildds.  Perhaps something is generating too many fields, so $foo shows the address of @foo, rather than the expected content.
<nixternal> I am writing a package analyzer, I think I will call it persia :)
<nixternal> howdy persia 
<geser> as I've now a verbose build log I will dig out that old thread on ubuntu-devel
<Kmos> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-soya -> page not found
<persia> nixternal: That'd be confusing.  How about Medes?
<nixternal> hehe, well since persia finds everything and then some, I figured that would be the perfect name :)
<persia> nixternal: 90% of what I find comes from lintian and linda :)
<nixternal> from your lintian and linda, not mine :)
<nixternal> but now I have taken all of the package test commands I have found and added them to scripts
<Kmos> geser: i'll test it at my pbuilder
<Kmos> geser: it works fine with pbuilder.. the balazar one
<Kmos> geser: can you do the sync ?
* persia thinks balazar should still wait for the libode transition, despite the Ubuntu-only patch to python-soya
<geser> Kmos: I want to go to bed now, I'll look at it tomorrow (if nobody else does it)
<Kmos> geser: ok, thanks
<Kmos> good night :)
<geser> thanks
<persia> superm1: Reviewing my logs, I didn't upload.  Trying again, the changelog patches don't apply to the current releases.  My apologies for not getting back to you earlier.
<superm1> that's a bit odd that the changelog pach didn't apply to the current release
<superm1> i diffed the current release to that one
<superm1> did you try to diff the new patch to the old patch i did perhaps by accident?
<superm1> *apply the diff to the directory after appying the old one
<persia> superm1: I downloaded and unpacked the available source (`apt-get source foo`), and applied the patches (`cd foo; patch -p1 < ../foo.diff`).  In both cases, I'm seeing rejections between two UNRELEASED versions: do I have the right diffs?
<persia> superm1: I think I found it: it appears that in your master, 0.20.1+fixes13837-0.0ubuntu1 is unreleased still, whereas I see that version in gutsy.  Perhaps you want 0.20.1+fixes13837-0.0ubuntu2?  Also, you might want to update the trunk changelog to match the previous gutsy upload.  Alternately, perhaps someone else already did this?
<superm1> 13837 is in gutsy?....let me double check here what happened then
<superm1> one sec
<superm1> okay 13737 is whats in gutsy still -
<superm1> the trunk changelog should have reflected that too.
<persia> superm1: No, you're right.  I can't read.  Still, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29304/ is an example of the rejects (they are basically the same).
<superm1> persia, here is the correct changelog: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mythtv/mythtv/ubuntu/annotate/supermario%40portablemario-20070709151729-41vq6i0x2ezcwmte?file_id=changelog-20061207062049-3pdmp6d4dhibhg0b-3
<superm1> i'm not sure how it was messed up in the diff (as I bzr commit'ed it before i made the diff)
<persia> superm1: Right.  It looks like s/UNRELEASED/gutsy is required for the patch, but I'm not sure that nothing else is affected.  Could you send me another set, without any UNRELEASED lines?
<superm1> persia, not until i get home from work - within about an hour
<persia> superm1: Sure.  No rush :)
<RAOF> StevenK: If you're interested, nouveau works again :)
<superm1> persia, i think i see what happened here
<superm1> when keescook last committed, he accidently left a few changelog.* entries
<superm1> so thats why i didn't see them in my local 13737 branch, whereas they are there from the source package on the archives
<persia> superm1: Ah.  That makes sense.  Everything is clean now then?
<StevenK> RAOF: Nice. :-) I did what you suggested, and sent off a renouveau dump
<RAOF> StevenK: Yay.
<RAOF> Now I'm building mesa to try glxgears :)
<superm1> persia, the branch never got any of his changelog.* files, i don't see why diff -urN didn't delete them though when you patched
<persia> superm1: The deletions weren't indicated in the diff, so it had a conflict.
<StevenK> RAOF: Mesa 7?
<persia> superm1: More generally, patch knows it's primitive, so it requires that every addition or deletion in an affected section be indicated, or it assumes that there is version skew, and human interaction is required.
<superm1> persia, i'll mail you a new patch that does that then
<superm1> i just made one and it does do so
<RAOF> StevenK: git head.  That's where the nouveau dri modules hide
<Q-FUNK> can anyone think of a way of generating a dependency based on the version number of a build-depends and some {substitution} variable?
<persia> superm1: OK.  Please send two, and please make sure they apply cleanly to the repository sources :)
<superm1> double checking as we speak :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Ah, so 7.0 + crack. :-)
<superm1> remind me to throw something at keescook for leaving the .BASE, .OTHER files :)
<persia> Q-FUNK: It helps to know the language affected, and more about what you're trying to do: there are several ways to do it.
<RAOF> StevenK: Yup ;)
<keescook> whaaa?  I left over merge files??
<Q-FUNK> persia: the depends is supposed to be foo-bar-core and version number equal to foo-dev. I was wondering if perhaps misc:Depends might be a good candidate.
<keescook> superm1: err, what'd I break?
<superm1> keescook, in the last mythtv upload, the debian directory had a few changelog.* files
<superm1> that weren't resolved in conflict merge i take it
<keescook> _doh_
<superm1> they weren't there in the bzr branch
<superm1> so persia was going to upload a next set of changes and we couldnt figure out why the diffs were applying cleanly here
<superm1> and not there
* keescook apologize
<keescook> s
<persia> keescook: Might I leave this to you, as you've the repository configured already?
<superm1> no problem keescook, but as a punishment you have to take care of bug 124842 :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124842 in lirc "Package new lirc version" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124842
<keescook> persia: I don't have it checked out at the moment -- I had to do some clean ups last week and it got wiped.
<keescook> superm1: heh, yeah, I saw that one -- I'll get it done, but my time this week is rather limited.  :)
<persia> keescook: OK.  We'll get on with it then.  No problems.
* keescook hugs persia
<RAOF> StevenK: Woo!  glxgears runs!
<StevenK> RAOF: Way cool.
<StevenK> RAOF: What about crack-attack? :-)
<persia> Q-FUNK: I've just reviewed the listed uses of misc:Depends in dh_*, and none seem to apply in your case.  is foo a library package?  If so, you can probably do it with shlibs:Depends.  If it's python or perl, python:Depends and perl:Depends might also help.
<persia> RAOF: Does glxgears still run if it's wider than it is tall?
<RAOF> persia: Well, it runs.  But not correctly
<Q-FUNK> persia: none of the above.
<persia> RAOF: Ah.  Soon then...
<RAOF> I havent tried to break it by spawning multiple glx windows yet.  Last time I tried that, it took a reboot to re-initalize the card correctly :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Be a man, and try crack-attack? :-)
<RAOF> StevenK: What's crack attack?
<StevenK> Description: multiplayer OpenGL puzzle game like "Tetris Attack"
<RAOF> Uuuuh.  That probably uses textures.  Nouveau doesn't do textures yet :)
<StevenK> Heh. That rules out most screensavers, too. :-)
<RAOF> Absolutely correct.  Thanks for reminding me, I need to prevent the lappy from trying that :)
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> RAOF: It also rules out compiz, which maps X windows into OpenGL textures. :-)
<persia> superm1: There's not a few lintian warnings pending.  You might want to schedule a cleanup at some point :)
<superm1> persia, in the 'mythtv' package lintian should be pretty clean
<superm1> only thing that comes up is W: mythtv source: changelog-should-mention-nmu
<superm1> in mythplugins however, there are two missing debhelper tokens, but they were giving me trouble when they were there, so i'll sort those out next upload
<persia> superm1: missing debhelper can be a concern: this means that none of the automated things will be included: you may want to check which routines would otherwise have been included, to make sure you have covereage.
<keescook> superm1: lirc uploaded -- nice work!  I adjusted your changelog slightly to add the "#" needed in (LP: #nnnnn) for auto-bug-closing.
<superm1> thanks keescook :)
<superm1> persia, from the run through many times in a VM, it appeared to be fine thus far, i will make sure for the next upload though that it works with them there
* keescook is going to bed now... (nearly 2am in london...)
<superm1> night keescook 
<TheMuso> Yay! Desktop images seem to be building again.
* TheMuso syncs
<StevenK> ScottK: Is that your usual state of mind? :-P
<ScottK> Only when I'm having network troubles.
<ScottK> That's the 3rd nick on my list and I've been AFK.
<StevenK> Ah
<StevenK> It's more your IRC client being confused, as opposed to you being confused?
<ScottK> Yes.
* ScottK may be confused, but generally doesn't admit it unless cornered.
<StevenK> ScottK: Or when you've just shown someone you are by accident? :-)
<ScottK> That would be one set of circumstances that would qualify as cornered.
<ScottK> Speaking of confused...
<ScottK> I have a package that now has a config file that I am trying to install into /etc/packagename/filename.  I get a permission denied error when I build the binary.  Any suggestions on how to deal with that.  It's a cdbs package.
<crimsun> what's the complete error?
<StevenK> Install into $DESTDIR/etc/packagename/filename, or /etc/packagename/filename?
<ScottK> Ah.  That may explain it.
<ScottK> mv: cannot move 'policy-spf.conf' to '/etc/python-policyd-spf': Permission Denied.
<StevenK> ScottK: That also shows why we use fakeroot to build packages, and not sudo. :-)
<ScottK> I think that's exactly what the problem is.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Yep.
<minghua> Hmm, using sudo to build package is so much more dangerous than I thought.
<StevenK> Mainly because it allows you to shoot yourself in the foot and blow your whole leg off.
<persia> superm1: Both uploaded.  Due to timing issues, mythtv should take up to 15 minutes to appear.
<superm1> okay thanks persia.  I'll get those other lintian odds and ends cleaned up for next time too
<superm1> mythplugins will show up in the queue "after" mythtv though still right?
<persia> superm1: Great!, and No :(
<superm1> well with this release it hopefully won't be too big a deal - it will just build against the older mythtv
<superm1> in the archive
<superm1> but i dont anticipate any large library changes recently
<superm1> so it should end up fine
<persia> superm1: I didn't see any library changes (but I didn't look really hard), so it should just work.
<superm1> okay i'm gonna go make some dinner right now, cya later persia 
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks for the hint.  My package update is uploaded to Debian.
<StevenK> ScottK: No problem
<Q-FUNK> hm
<Q-FUNK> any way to tell dh_mkshlibs that we depend on an extra package of a specific version?
<Q-FUNK> non-library, but same idea as -Vlibfoo (>= version)
<StevenK> You can't just mention it explicitly?
<ScottK> StevenK: Is Adept fixed yet?
<ScottK> Err
<ScottK> StevenK: is Apt fixed yet?  Sorry, wrong package.
<StevenK> mvo fixed it.
<ScottK> Cool.
* ScottK is contemplating a dist-upgrade tomorrow.
* StevenK isn't.
<ScottK> Other than ooo, is there anything that's particularly broken just now?
<RAOF> Soft!  You're not already running a pure gutsy/sid install?
<ScottK> No.
* ScottK was waiting until after Debian Import Freeze.  
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: no, since it has to be substituted every time the package is built
<persia> ScottK: It's early yet.  You might at least want to wait for Tribe 3.  Something breaks here about once a day or so.
<ScottK> Then at least if it gets broken someone had to actually do something.
* RAOF decries the timidity
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: Ah, you can use substvars.
<ScottK> persia: I understand.  That's why I've got a spare hard drive for the laptop.
<StevenK> ScottK: OO.o is unbroken on amd64. *hint* :-)
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: yes indeed, but how?
<ScottK> Except the arch all parts are still broken.
* ScottK has no AMD64.
* ScottK sort or promised Hobbsee that if she'd upload my kdepim changes I'd dist-upgrade and use them.
<ScottK> or/of
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: debian/$pkg.substvars gets deleted at build time
<persia> ScottK: You might want to configure a chroot to match your system (with dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --set-selections) and test the upgrade first - that way you can see the broken package list before you really upgrade.
* ScottK is reluctant to hold off to long on that.
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: Actually, it gets deleted during clean
<ScottK> persia: Good idea.
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: right, so how can I pass variables to debhelper to generate extra substvars?
* ScottK is also pondering a Dapper - Feisty upgrade for the main desktop.
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: I have no idea. substvars are how ${shlibs:Depends} are generated, but I've never needed to do it.
<Q-FUNK> right, so I cannot used substvars
<StevenK> ScottK: Wimp. My main desktop has been running Feisty for 2 months.
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: Why not?
<persia> ScottK: For Dapper -> Feisty, you probably want to go by way of Edgy: the LTS upgrade path isn't as well tested.
<StevenK> ${shlibs:Depends} are expanded at build time, it sounds like exactly what you want.
<StevenK> persia: What LTS upgrade path? There is no second LTS realease.
<ScottK> persia: If I do it directly, it'll be when I have time to fight it.  I might get to file some good bugs.
<persia> StevenK: Right.  When there is, suddenly someone will start looking at the upgrade path :)
<persia> ScottK: True, actually.  Good luck.
* ScottK recalls someone here doing Dapper - Feisty and finding it doable.
<StevenK> I daresay a bunch of people will. :-)
* ScottK will backup the data and wait until the calendar is clear before attempting that one.
<ScottK> Good morning Hobbsee.
<ScottK> Good night all.  I'm going to bed.
<Hobbsee> hey ScottK 
<RAOF> Hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hi RAOF 
<StevenK> steven@blerk:~% cat /sys/block/sr0/size
<StevenK> 4
<StevenK> I think I know why Gnome refuses to burn disks now.
<superm1> morning Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hi superm1 
<superm1> it appears you fixed apt :)
<Hobbsee> i didnt fix it, mvo did
<Hobbsee> but yeah
<imbrandon> apt://new_computer
<Hobbsee> hah
<superm1> imbrandon, didn't you read the post, that only works in FF right now :)
<TheMuso> Heya Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso!
<imbrandon> superm1, its worked in kde a long time as long as you have the apt kio slave :)
<TheMuso> What was up with apt?
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: it made everything else installing wise not install
<TheMuso> Hmm ok. Didn't notice anything amiss with my chroots.
<StevenK> TheMuso: I'm guessing no adept or anything special in them.
<imbrandon> can the archive admins sync from mentors ?
<StevenK> I can't recall a request to do so.
<imbrandon> hrm
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: because nobody knows how.
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: Read dpkg-source(1)
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: you mean dpkg-gencontrol(1)
<StevenK> % zcat /usr/share/man/man1/dpkg-gencontrol.1.gz
<StevenK> .so man1/dpkg-source.1
<Hobbsee> more likely that just no one has asked yet
<StevenK> Actually, ubuntu-restricted-extras does it.
* StevenK just remembered.
<Hobbsee> does it?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: uh, how?
<StevenK> Read debian/rules, it uses substvars, if I recall correctly.
<Hobbsee> StevenK: true that.  i was thinking you meant about syncing from mentors, with u-r-e somehow doing that..
<StevenK> No, no, nothing like that.
<Hobbsee> dammit.  u-r-e doesnt work.
<white___> hi
<Hobbsee> hi white___!
<white___> what a nick :(
<Hobbsee> heh
<yigal> hello i need help deciding where i should put my time.  i am a member of MOTU Science - I am not MOTU, but I don't use Ubuntu at least I haven't for 3 months and have been using Debian unstable.  I don't seem to have any energy to help package for a distribution I am not using and which seems to not be pulling its weight when it comes to producing "new" versions of packages - which I understand is Ubuntu's goal of being an ups
<white___> yigal: what is your point?
<yigal> excuse me s/understand is/understand is not/
<yigal> white___: no point, I am trying to find a solution for myself
<ajmitch> hi white_______
<white___> yigal: i do not think that anyone is forcing you to work on opensource :)
<white___> yigal: you can work on whatever you want
<white___> ajmitch: hi :)
<white___> damn cold here :(
<ajmitch> be glad you're not here then
<man-di> white___: got too much '_' on your keyboard? ;-)
<white___> ajmitch: i am in melbourne
<white___> man-di: bah freenode does not give me my nick back :(
<ajmitch> white___: and melbourne != dunedin :)
<yigal> white___: that's awesome for you not reading what I am saying
<Hobbsee> !ghost | white___ 
<ubotu> white___: On IRC, if you own a nick that is currently being used, you can make it quit by typing: /msg nickserv GHOST <username> <password>
<ajmitch> yigal: what you said got cut off
<yigal> cut off?
<yigal> too long?
<man-di> yigal: cut off
<ajmitch> ...is Ubuntu's goal of being an ups
<yigal> sort of distribution, but any way if anyone has anything to write I would really appreciate it.
<yigal> i did not have much more to say?
<yigal> i like the latest and greatest but i like ubuntu's community
<man-di> yigal: I dont get what you wanna say at all
<yigal> i am angry at ubuntu but i want to understand
<yigal> basically
<man-di> you want to understand why you are angry?
<yigal> it seems that ubuntu takes all of debians work and packages it as its own product
<yigal> excuse me s/seems/"appears to me"
<yigal> i know this is not the full picture
<yigal> but 
* man-di is an official Debian Developer and I dont think its this way
<yigal> good
<yigal> how so?
<man-di> both sides get good things from eayh other
<white> well, that's better
<yigal> i am sorry if this is not an appropriate place to air my concerns
<yigal> what things, for instance does debian get, other than a pool of possible people who will migrate from ubuntu to debian after some time?
<yigal> i am sorry if i sound harsh, i really am
<white> yigal: you know who is active in core developments, such as gcc/g++?
<white> and to the best of my knowledge, this also counts for dpkg
<yigal> no. maybe this will help, ubuntu ?
<yigal> :)
<yigal> ?
<yigal> white: you have your name 
<man-di> some of the core development for Debian is done in Ubuntu
<yigal> that makes me feel good
<white> yigal: i am not talking about myself, i am not developing for ubuntu :)
<white> (and i am certainly not doing any devel stuff for dpkg or gcc :) )
<yigal> no, no it doesn't matter
<ajmitch> actually quite a few people in here are debian developers :)
<man-di> there are two communities that write bug reports and if looking and fixing both you will improve the other side automatically
<yigal> man-di: open source at its best
<yigal> ok, i feel a lot better already
<white> yigal: there are parts which need to be improved, that is true. But we are not at the point, where we see ubuntu as the devil
<yigal> :)
<man-di> white: well some do, but we can easily ignore them
<white> yigal: if you are interested in improving the communication and stuff, i can certainly help you and give you some work :)
<yigal> not devil spoiled child is more how I thought of it before this conversation - white: i would very much appreciate this
<white> yigal: right now, the review of the new packages added to universe is stucked in a sense that nobody from the debian site controls, if they should be added to debian main
<white> i used to write mails to the ubuntu developers, asking them if they want to maintain the package in debian, but i ran out of time for this
<white> feel free to continue with it
<white> i had some scripts in place, which send me mails about new packages added to ubuntu universe, which were not in debian
<yigal> it just seems problematic after receiving 20-30 emails/day telling me that some science program is being synced from debian unstable 
<white> there might be some false positives, but all in all you could do some communication work there
<yigal> hmm ok
<white> what is the current ubuntu release name?
<yigal> i will have to think - at least I am not angry any more
<yigal> Gutsy
<yigal> or Feisty?
<white> yigal: that is good, hate is boring ;)
<man-di> gutsy
<yigal> white: :)
<man-di> gutsy is the development distro, feisty latest stable
<white> man-di: thx
<white> yigal: let me just adjust my scripts
<yigal> ok
<white> yigal: i have always seen it as an important part. Asking the maintainer, where it is appropriate, reviewing the package and maybe sponsoring it
<yigal> by "it" you mean, Im sorry white Im a little confused?
<yigal> the scripts?
<yigal> or the communication
<yigal> oh, thats funny of me, sorry
<white> yigal: taking care of the resyncing of packages from ubuntu universe to debian main
<yigal> ah
<yigal> well i am more confused now than anything else - which is good - complexity rather than simple false models
<yigal> best, have a great day
<white> and now he left without telling me his email address?
<StevenK> I found that a little pointless, anyway
<white> StevenK: you mean the communication part thing or the person who just left?
<StevenK> The latter.
<StevenK> "Oh, I'm so angry, you guys steal from Debian ..."
<white> well it seems that you are right ...
<imbrandon> ...
<imbrandon> StevenK, got a moment ?
<StevenK> imbrandon: Sure.
<imbrandon> StevenK, a package i grabbed from mentors i'm looking at sponsoring , mind putting another set of eyes on it ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5945
<imbrandon> ran a revu-build on it too
<imbrandon> to make it easyier
<imbrandon> its basicly a mapper for rdp->xvnc
<StevenK> mkdir -p /tmp/buildd/xrdp-0.4.0/debian/xrdp/usr/man/man5
<StevenK> mkdir -p /tmp/buildd/xrdp-0.4.0/debian/xrdp/usr/man/man8
<StevenK> If I'm reading that right, that's bad.
<StevenK> Hrm. It seems it's fixed in debian/rules. Still bad.
<imbrandon> hrm
<white> somebody here familiar with valknut?
<StevenK> mv $(CURDIR)/debian/xrdp/usr/man $(CURDIR)/debian/xrdp/usr/share
<StevenK> Twitch.
<imbrandon> haha i was just noticing that
<StevenK> imbrandon: Personally, I'd rather that was fixed properly.
<imbrandon> yea it looks like this needs a bit more work than i thought ...
<imbrandon> nother day or two wont hurt
<Sp4rKy> please, what's the new Maintainer team for a universe package ?
<Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ cat scripts/update-maintainer | grep MOTU
<Hobbsee>         "universe"|"multiverse")    email="Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"  
<Hobbsee> Sp4rKy: ^
<Sp4rKy> ok thx
<StevenK> Useless use of cat!
* StevenK hides. :-P
<Sp4rKy> :)
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i know.  habit.
* TheMuso does it by hand these days.
<TheMuso> Oh lovely.
<TheMuso> I am getting gobbldygook from LP.
<TheMuso> So much that I can't even get to the link to disable it temporarily.
<TheMuso> nvm, went to the monepage, and disabled it.
<TheMuso> homepage even
<LucidFox> What should I do if an application uses a GUI build configurator?
<StevenK> Sob. Very loudly.
<TheMuso> LucidFox: What do you mean exactly?
* TheMuso prods soyuz.
<LucidFox> actually, never mind
<LucidFox> well, "configure" is a Qt application that displays a GUI window where one can specify build options
<RAOF> ...!
<LucidFox> but never mind, this one seems to have a command-line mode as well
<StevenK> *TWITCH*
<ajmitch> that's pretty special
<Hobbsee> .....that's.....well, special's one word for it
<Flannel> what app is that?
<Hobbsee> LucidFox: you should tell the author of it to PUT *DOWN* THE CRACK PIPE, IMMEDIATELY!!!
<Flannel> makes me wonder how much time was wasted on creating that configure doohickey
<LucidFox> Flannel> qdvdauthor
<StevenK> Yeah, but the author of qdvdauthor is a crack-head.
<imbrandon> mmmm crack
<RickH> Can anyone help me with a glib problem?
<RickH> I'm getting this:
<RickH> *** 'pkg-config --modversion glib-2.0' returned 2.13.6, but GLIB (2.12.11) was found!
<RickH> I've tried everything I can think of to fix it.  I think gnome-devel is installing 2.12.11, but I'm not sure.
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5943 <-- isn't xchat-gnome in main, not universe?
<TheMuso> LucidFox: Use apt-cache madison to find out where the package is located.
<RickH> Can anyone help me with a glib problem?
<RickH> I keep getting:  "*** 'pkg-config --modversion glib-2.0' returned 2.13.6, but GLIB (2.12.11) was found!" when I try to install GTK+-2.10.13.
<RickH> I don't know how to resolve this.
<LucidFox> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xchat-gnome/ <-- yes, it's in main
<LucidFox> but REVU is for universe/multiverse only, isn't it?
<imbrandon> no
<imbrandon> but it is only for new packages, not ones in the archive already
<imbrandon> updates should be attached to LP
<LucidFox> ScottK, I have corrected qconf per your comments: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5947
<persia> LucidFox: In general, you'll get the best package if you get reviews from lots of different people, rather than repeated reviews from the same person.  As a result, it's preferred to ask the channel generally, rather than a specific person when requesting review of a package.
<LucidFox> well, he was the one who commented on the REVU page
<TheMuso> persia: Just got a reply from mdz on -devel to geser's sconz post. Doesn't explain why it works for us however.
<persia> TheMuso: I think we need to grab a buildd admin and go over several failures.  It may be due to bugs in scons, but I'm not sure the lack of replication is clear in the current discussion.  This week is probably not ideal, due to the sprint, but soon...
<TheMuso> persia: Yes. We (UbuntuStudio) really would like ardour.
<persia> TheMuso: I'm not sure you need such a restricted We :)  I suspect there are many other parties who would prefer not to have gtk+ 1.2 based ardour, even if they don't use it.
<TheMuso> persia: heh true.
<TheMuso> bbl dinner
<persia> (my interest is the support for MIDI transport, but still... )
<imbrandon> brb
<LucidFox> bad-version-number 1.0~rc1-0ubuntu1
<persia> LucidFox: If that is from your lintian output, it's safe to ignore.
<LucidFox> ok
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:persia] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
<persia> (apologies to those in the mid-pacific - please feel free to continue REVU day if you like)
<persia> siretart: Is emacs22 still expected in the near future?  Is there a time estimate, or does it require additional work still?
<persia> siretart: Sorry.  Ignore that.  I see it now :)
<TheMuso> Is it just me, or are others showing as not logged in when viewing bug lists/bug details on edge?
<TheMuso> Ok, that time I got crap.
<TheMuso> TIme to disable again...
<DktrKranz> persia, about your comment in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5924, pitti suggested to manage them as separate source packages.
<persia> DktrKranz: OK.  Does that mean that http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5701 should be pulled from the queue?
<DktrKranz> persia, it can be dropped
<DktrKranz> we will upload it again if there will be need of
<persia> DktrKranz: OK.  Thanks.  Archiving...
<TheMuso> Evening RAOF.
<RAOF> Evening TheMuso 
<ScottK> persia: That bad version number is not IAW Debian Policy.  Why is it safe to ignore?
<ScottK> "~" is not allowed in upstream version.
<siretart> persia: emacs22 is still in source NEW, AFAIK
<persia> siretart: Right.  Sorry for bothering you.
<siretart> persia: there are quite some important updates to the emacs22 package pending in the packaging branch
<siretart> mwolson is doing a really great job
<persia> ScottK: It works, and sorts before.  I'll hunt up a reference for you in a minute.
<siretart> I queued his other upload after the emacs22 approval
<persia> siretart: OK.  mwolson has also prepared a bunch of new updates for other things waiting on emacs22.  They all look clean, but I can't upload them yet.
<Fujitsu> Urgh, why is this website saying Medibuntu is an official Ubuntu repository?
<ScottK> persia: Just because it may work at the moment, I don't think that means it should ignored.  Here's the policy ref: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It's used all the time...
<Sp4rKy> Fujitsu: what website ?
<Fujitsu> I don't think Debian policy has been updated to reflect the addition of ~
<ScottK> OK.  So this is one of those times that the policy is wrong and we all know it, but it hasn't been updated?
<Fujitsu> http://linuxondesktop.blogspot.com/2007/07/35-cool-applications-to-install-on.html
<persia> ScottK: ~ is only about a year old - it takes a while to filter into policy :)
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Consider me properly thwacked.
<persia> ScottK: See the changelog for dpkg (1.10.11)
<ScottK> OK.
* ScottK contemplates a patch for Lintian.
<persia> (Sorry - 3.5 years old)
<persia> ScottK: I'm fairly sure it was feisty (or dapper) lintian complaining about XubuntuY.  That's where I usually see that report originating.
<broonie> Well, the support was added in dpkg ages ago.
<broonie> But in order to allow packages to be unpacked on the latest stable it wasn't allowed to be used in Debian until that dpkg was in stable.
* Yagisan sighs
<persia> broonie: So, officially it wasn't correct until the Etch release?
<Yagisan> ever spent 3 days looking for the bug in your program, when it was GCC that was actually broken instead ?
<siretart> persia: right. mwolson agreed to subscribe the 'ubuntu-elisp' team, so that the emacs related uploads are kept together for batch processing
<persia> siretart: Shall I unsub U-U-S in the meantime?
<broonie> persia: It may have been sarge, I can't remember.
<siretart> persia: as you wish, but I still see u-u-s appropriate for those debdiffs
<persia> siretart: OK.  I'll just leave them there a bit longer, hoping NEW processing happens in due course :)
<Yagisan> could someone on i386/amd64 on gutsy confirm if this bug still exists *before* I upgrade -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.1/+bug/125031
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125031 in gcc-4.1 "defines BIG_ENDIAN on little endian machines" [Undecided,New]  
<ScottK> LucidFox: You might also look into why qconf_1.3-0ubuntu1.diff has several empty directories and a bunch of makefile spew in it.
<ajmitch> ok, rc bugs + comments works for me, I'll push it somewhere public tomorrow, perhaps
* ajmitch sleeps
<Yagisan> night ajmitch 
<persia> ajmitch: Thanks a lot!
<LucidFox> ScottK> ok
<LucidFox> hmm
<LucidFox> I don't see any empty directories, but the .qconftemp directory is indeed redundant and shouldn't be in the diff
<doko> RainCT: what's the reason to set severity for sync requests?
<RainCT> doko: they don't need any?
<RainCT> doko: (tought they should be wishlist in order to don't count as bugs in the stats)
<LucidFox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5952 <-- this should be better, no temp directories
<LucidFox> and a smaller diff overall
<xxxxx1> good morning all (?) :)
<RainCT> doko: so?
<doko> RainCT: these bugs are usually short-lived, and just tagging them wishlist without looking at the changelog sounds like the wrong thing
<doko> but you may ask the archive admins
<Fujitsu> doko: I often consider going through and wishlisting them, because they greatly clutter bug listsings.
<Fujitsu> *listings
* ScottK wishlists my own before I subscribe the archive, but generally doesn't both messing with other's.
* Fujitsu wonders why requestsync doesn't wishlist them.
* persia is convinced not to wishlist things : some of these are CVE fixes, etc.
* Fujitsu is convinced there should be a metabug flag.
<persia> Fujitsu: Why is it a metabug?  If we wanted to cherrypick, we'd do so.
<TheMuso> Could anybody have a look at the build log found here, and tell me why its crapping out? http://www.themuso.id.au/ubuntu/buildlogs/
<persia> TheMuso: Looks to me (without digging) like the definitions in stat.h and cmd.o don't match properly.
<RainCT> (OT) is pynotify installed by default on Ubuntu / Kubuntu?
<TheMuso> persia: Right.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<RAOF_> It's not going to be the same when you get that fixed :)
<RAOF_> Ah.  My acx woes are bug 118539
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 118539 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22 "[regression]  acx does not load" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118539
<RAOF_> No wireless for you!
<TheMuso> Looks like it could be a gcc thing, as 1.1-4 was done in April last year, and the latest 1.1-4ubuntu revision in LP appears to have built.
<TheMuso> bloody edge. Spitting crap at me again.
<ScottK> RainCT: It's in Main, so something installs it. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/notify-python (I assume that's the same).
<Q-FUNK> can anybody think of a way to make debhelper generate substvars e.g. misc:Depends content via debian/rules?
<RainCT> ScottK: ok, thanks (yes, it's the same)
<persia> Q-FUNK: Must you use debhelper to generate it?  If you know what you want, you could just cp debian/substitutions debian/subtcars before the debhelper calls.
<man-di> persia: nice typo: subtcars
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<RAOF_> :)
<yamal> any revu admin: please remove any and all of sabnzbd from incoming so I can re-upload. Thanks.
<persia> yamal: Sure.  I'll let you know when it's gone.
<persia> yamal: Try uploading again.
<yamal> persia: on it
<yamal> done
<persia> motu-mentoring-reception team: are there any guidelines on who has what shifts when, or should I just pick one of you randomly for an update?
<StevenK> Ugh. Finally. I *think* I have all of the libflac++ transition done.
<StevenK> Doesn't help that I had to rewrite parts of the FLAC code for 2 of the packages by hand.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ouch.
* StevenK kicks gpg-agent.
<StevenK> If I set GPG_TTY, you use pinentry-curses. Use pinentry-gtk2, damn it!
<yamal> ladies & gentlemen, "my first package" (sabnzbd) is awaiting your expert comments at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5953
<imbrandon> !kernel
<ubotu> kernel is the core of the Ubuntu Operating System (named 'Linux') - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel.  You shouldn't have to compile one, but if you're convinced you do, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild
<jekil> anyone can review please? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5896
<StevenK> persia: And in answer to your question about emacs22, it's in source NEW.
<xxxxx1> join #ubuntu-devel
<persia> StevenK: Yep.  I saw it there about 10 minutes after I was confused.  Unfortunately, I have yet to find the "undo" feature for globally distributed communication systems :)
<xxxxx1> ops
<StevenK> persia: You and me both. :-)
<persia> So, this new "NewPackageRequirements" page mentions the suspicious-source script in the ubuntu-dev-tools package.  Anyone know where I can find the package?
<ScottK> persia: IIRC it's in bzr.
<persia> yamal: Commented.
* persia grumbles that things described as "packages" should really be in the repositories.  Otherwise they're just scripts in some random place on the internet...
* ScottK agrees.
* ScottK also recalls dholbach whining on the motu list that there was stuff in there that needed copyright/licensing info added.
* ScottK thinks it's just a matter of time.
<persia> ScottK: I thought that was the motu reviewing tools package.  Is it the same one?
* ScottK thinks so.
<geser> persia: ubuntu-dev-tools is in bzr and nearly packaged (some licences missing)
<persia> geser: OK.  I still think "package" isn't the right term yet, but no worries :)
<yamal> persia: what license is commonly used for the packaging? gpl or is there some specialized one?
<persia> yamal: I recommend using a license compatible with your source package.  In general, GPL and PubDom are good choices.
<ScottK> yamal: Same license as the stuff you are packaging is a safe/useful choice.
<yamal> then gpl it is, as most of the package is under that, too
<geser> persia: if you want to test it out https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools is the location for it
<geser> yamal: which version of the gpl?
<persia> jekil: Advocated.
<yamal> geser: rest of package is 2 (or later)...
<persia> geser: I'll wait :)  My experience with pre-repository packages has usually been negative.
<jekil> persia: thank you a lot :)
<jussi01> hmmm, anyone know how to make a command run on a remote machine via ssh, even after you have closed the ssh terminal?
<mgalvin> jussi01: automatically or manually? manually just background it... command &
<jussi01> mgalvin: ok, so just add an & on the end of the command and close the terminal?
<mgalvin> jussi01: yes, that should do the trick for you
<jussi01> mgalvin: thanks! that helps a lot!
<jussi01>  :)
<mgalvin> jussi01: np, glad to help :)
<tsmithe> hi all; i would be very grateful of anyone free to sponsor ubuntustudio-sounds and usplash-theme-ubuntustudio ;)
<geser> jussi01: man nohup
<sladen> tsmithe: are they any good ;-)
<tsmithe> sladen, of course :)
<ScottK> StevenK: You don't mind if I take clamav back for a new merge do you?
<ScottK> shawarma: Have you got a moment to help with a shell scripting problem?
<shawarma> ScottK: sure thing. 
<shawarma> ScottK: If you hurry, that is. :)
<ScottK> If you recall the clamav postinst fix you helped me with...
<shawarma> I do.
<ScottK> The Debian maintainer adopted it, but I think screwed it up.
<ScottK> He changed newal='which newaliases' ||true
<ScottK> to newal='which newalisases || true'
<ScottK> The later (on a system that has newaliases) returns /bin/true
<shawarma> Those are backticks, surely?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> Copy/Paste isn't working for me on IRC for some reason.
<lucas> ScottK: it doesn't
<shawarma> ScottK: No, it's ok.
<ScottK> And now that you mention it, I don't think I used back ticks when I tried it.
<lucas> it works here
<ScottK> OK.
<shawarma> The stuff after || does not get executed if the stuff before it succeeds.
<shawarma> And even then, /bin/true does not return anything.
<ScottK> Ah.  OK.
<shawarma> I'm afraid I have to run away now. I'll be around in 4 hours time.
* ScottK is a novice shell scripter, so I wanted to check.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> Sure enough.  Works fine when I use back ticks.
<ScottK> Thanks too lucas.
<lucas> I reported that bug in debian actually ;)
<ScottK> Odd.  I sent them a patch after shawarma helped me figure it out.
<ScottK> StevenK: I didn't think so.  Uploaded.
<jussi01> is signal 11 == ctrl + c in terminal?
<jussi01> nm
<geser> signal 11 is segmenation fault
<geser> ctrl-c should be SIGTERM (15)
<geser> see also man 7 signal
<hendrixski> could somebody recomend a guide for setting up an schroot?
<Kmos> geser: you forget bug 124744
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124744 in balazar "Please sync balazar (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124744
<minghua> hendrixski: schroot(1) man page is not good enough?
<hendrixski> minghua, ya know, that would be the most obvious one which means that I haven't tried it yet 
<hendrixski> lol
<sommer> ScottK: hey
<sommer> I was wondering if anyone
<ScottK> Hi
<sommer> is working on the sylpheed-claws packages for clamav
<ScottK> Not that I know of.
<ScottK> We'll definitely need those done.
<sommer> cool I'll work on those next.
<ScottK> If you're up for it, go for it.
<sommer> MIMEDefang is pretty cool.
<sommer> thinking about switching from MailScanner...heh
<hendrixski> minghua, there's nothing in there about how to debootstrap a file system into an schroot
* hendrixski might as well continue using dchroot for development
<geser> Kmos: see my comment on that bug
<minghua> hendrixski: Sorry, can't help you much, I also only use dchroot (and not often even for that).
<sommer> ScottK: will the symoblic link in /var/spool/MIMEDefang be added to the postinst too?
<ScottK> I think so.
<Kmos> geser: ok
<ScottK> minghua: Do you really thing bug #103482 is SRU worthy?  There was some debate about it on #ubuntu-bugs while you were offline.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103482 in r-cran-psy "[can-not-install]  postrm failure" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103482
<hendrixski> minghua, :-) thanks anyway
<minghua> ScottK: There is no fix yet.  I suspect a missing Pre-Depends, but I'm not sure and haven't looked carefully yet.
<ScottK> Right.  I guess the question is, is it worth fixing at all in Edgy.  I suspect that most who will upgrade have already done so.
<minghua> ScottK: Debian never shipped 0.70-1 in a stable release, so fixing this is not important there.
<minghua> ScottK: My personal preference is not touching non-LTS release's -updates at all.  But this affects dapper, so I'll eventually look at it.
<ScottK> Ah.  For Dapper I would agree.
<minghua> ScottK: I don't care about edgy-updates at all, to be honest.
<ScottK> OK.  How about I mark it fix-released and then add tasks for dapper and edgy and wontfix the Edgy one?
<minghua> ScottK: Sounds good to me.  I'll probably assign the dapper one to myself if nobody take it in a few days.
<ScottK> OK.
<sommer> ScottK: I just retested p3scan and the clamav user doesn't need to be in the p3scan group.
<sommer> I think I added from reading a guide somewhere, but it's not strictly needed.
<ScottK> OK.  Then update the wiki
<ScottK> Feel free to delete my comment.
<sommer> I'm all over it.
<mohammad> Hello, would someone please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5955 It had some licensing issues. Now all are resolved.
<ScottK> mohammad: I saw your comment on REVU.  It's on my list for (hopefully) today.
<mohammad> ScottK: ok thank you so I will wait :) see you then
<blueyed> I have updated a package with the current upstream release (popfile). We sync this from Debian. How do I get it into Debian? Is it enough to create a bug and attach the debdiff there?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> blueyed: You should contact the Debian maintainer and ask them if they are interested in uploading the package to Debian.
<blueyed> ok. Even better.. just one email ;)
<Baby> what is the package? :)
<ScottK> Baby: He said popfile.
<broonie> The usual approach is to file a wishlist bug against the package in Debian asking for a new upstream release.
<ScottK> Actually it looks like the Maintainer may well be MIA.
<broonie> That way if there is some reason for not doing the upload then it's more obvious.
<ScottK> It look like the maintainer has only touched one package in the last couple of years http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=lwall@debian.org
<ScottK> Good point about the wishlist bug.
* ScottK knew that.
<RickH> Anyone feel up to helping me with the Brasero MOTU/Recipe example?  I'm getting a problem during the "debuild -S -sa" operation.
<icf7> RickH: Could you post the error message?
<RickH> Yeah, it's several lines.
<RickH> Is that okay?
<icf7> RickH: pastebin.ca
<geser> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<RickH> okay, just a sec
<minghua> ScottK: I see plenty of activities on that Debian QA page, the most recent being April this year.  So the maintainer is definitely not MIA.
<RickH> How do I indicate where it is?  It says "Posted by RickH on July 10th 22:01"
<RickH> Ah!  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29406/plain/
<icf7> RickH: Do you have a well-configured gpg key?
<ScottK> minghua: Other than the one package it looked like nothing had been updated in a long time.  I guess one update is enought to not be MIA>
<RickH> I assume the problem is that my GPG key is not under "rick@rick-desktop", but rather a different email address.
<minghua> ScottK: Maybe there just aren't much to update. :-)
<RickH> ?  But, I don't know how to set that.
<geser> that's only about signing and independent from the actual build (debuild builds the package and tries to sign it)
<RickH> So, the source is extracted, just not signed?
<minghua> RickH: Most likely you have the uploader email wrong in debian/changelog.
<RickH> Very possibly.
<RickH> I didn't know to change that. :)
<geser> a source package is build but not signed (signing is only important for uploading)
<icf7> RickH: just edit debian/changelog
<geser> RickH: use dch to edit debian/changelog (it's in devscripts)
<RickH> got it
<icf7> RickH: And I don't know the policy, but a global email address (rickh@example.org) instead of a local allows others to contact you
<RickH> it was set to rick@rick-desktop.
<RickH> I hadn't run source at that time, maybe?
<RickH> BTW, I'm a total newbie to Linux development.  I began using Ubuntu on Sunday. :)
<minghua> !packagingguide
<ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
<minghua> RickH: It would be good if you read some documentation first then.
<RickH> minghua:  I'm going through the MOTU/Recipe doc right now.
<RickH> That's when I found this error.
* minghua notes that MOTU/Recipes is not exactly a good start place for new hopefuls.
* RickH says:  "Interesting."  Daniel Hollbach suggested it as a starting place via email on ubuntu-motu-mentors list.
<minghua> Okay.  I don't really know much about the docs.  But skimming show that page assumes some basic understanding of the packaging.
<RickH> I would agree. :)
* RickH laughs
<RickH> I'm now getting the same message for my proper setup:  "secret key not available"
<ScottK> Did you make a key that uses the same e-mail address you are using?
<RickH> yes
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Then it's probably debian/changelog related.
<minghua> Check with "gpg --list-secret-keys" to be sure, I would suggest.
<ScottK> Which version of Ubuntu are you running?
<RickH> Okay.  Thanks!
<RickH> Fesity Fawn, 7.04
<RickH> desktop version
<icf7> minghua: Problem is there are no good docs, and existing ones are scattered, as I pointed out here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation/Wishlist . Feel free to add a suggestion or comment on this.
<RickH> Is it the uid portion?
<minghua> icf7: I know doc situation is not very good.  But as I said, I don't know much about documentations.
<frafu> I am currently using this: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
<frafu> might be helpful
<RickH> frafu:  Thanks!
<minghua> I already gave that URL above...
* RickH winks
<minghua> The packaging guide is generally quite good, but a little outdated.
<RickH> Just what an uninformed, ignorant newbie likes to hear. ;)
<minghua> icf7: "A central and complete list of all rules and recommendations", I think there is no such thing.
<frafu> I logged in a few minutes ago; sorry 
<icf7> minghua: Yes, and that's the problem. gentoo has a central, although short documentation on everything
<jussi01> hmmm, how do I make soemthing compile with gcc 3.x instead of 4.x?
<tsmithe> jussi01, build it and see what needs fixing
<minghua> icf7: I meant "You can't get a complete list of all rules, they are constantly changing".
<icf7> minghua: Then why not document this change?
* minghua doubts gentoo's list is complete
<jussi01> tsmithe: i build it and it gives me a seg fault
<icf7> minghua: ebuilds are far simpler than debian packages ;)
<tsmithe> jussi01, the resulting binary or the compiler?
<minghua> icf7: Not enough manpower.  There are probably hundreds of rules.  Listing them all doesn't make much sense.
<tsmithe> jussi01, can you get a stack trace?
<icf7> minghua: Where are they listed now?
<geser> jussi01: build-depend on the right gcc package and make sure that it gets used
<minghua> icf7: In Debian, each team/tool has its own documentation.
<minghua> icf7: New tools are invented, old tools are improved, so I don't think it make sense to have a central place for all documentations.
<icf7> minghua: I have no problem with tool documentation, this is about packaging guidelines.
<man-di> icf7: different tools are used for packaging
<minghua> Well, if you package use certain tools/language/platform, you need to abide by those rules.
<icf7> man-di: I know, thanks to you ;) , but why not create subpages for individual tools?
* minghua got to go.  Be back later.
<geser> icf7: the packaging guidelines depend on the tool used and may get outdated as the tools improve
<man-di> icf7: there are too many of them
<icf7> geser: Well, there is a high number of tool-independent rules, like indenting debian/copyright. I could swear someone here showed me a link on how to do it, but man-dir told me my version was totally incorrect.
<icf7> man-di: afaik (yet), there are debhelper/CDBS and maybe a few else to generate debian/rules. Apart from this, a lot of things do not change. And even if they do: Why should changes be documented somewhere instead of e.g. a central wiki?
<tsmithe> man-di, did you get a chance to see wired?
<geser> icf7: the debian policy has a chapter how debian/changelog should look like
* broonie hasn't heard of any rules for indenting debian/copyright :)
<icf7> geser: debian/*copyright* . The chapter on debian/changelog is one of the best in the whole debian policy, partly because the use BNF
<geser> I should read better :)
<broonie> Note that the changelog needs to be machine parsable.
* icf7 notes his previous message was not parsable s/use BNF/use of BNF
<icf7> BNF-like, to be precise
<geser> icf7: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/03/msg00023.html has some guidelines (linked from the maintainer guide)
<icf7> geser: Thanks for illustrating my point about obscure and distributed sources ;) . man-di told me there should be no indenting at all for the main text, and 4 spaces for the license
<broonie> It really makes no difference so long as it is legible.
<icf7> broonie: It does, how am I supposed to find that posting, deduce it's how to do it, and that as a new contributor who's glad dpkg-buildpackage runs for the first time without any errors?
<xxxxx1> bye all
<broonie> icf7: It's just pointing out stuff that's already in the existing docs (well, the link to the reject FAQ probably isn't but...).
<broonie> I'd suggest filing a bug on the developers reference in Debian asking for any missing stuff to be added (perhaps the example would be a good idea)
<icf7> broonie: Which existing docs? And could you point me to a documentation that says the license in debian/copyright should be indented with 2 spaces?
<RickH> It worked.  It required the full uid, including the comment.
<icf7> broonie: That's a good idea, but this is a general problem that there are lots of invalid packages which follow all the guidelines in the docs (aka Debian Policy Manual), and even vice versa
<broonie> icf7: You can indent the copyright file however you feel like so long as it is legible; that is just an example there (where it improves the legibility for the multipe GPL blocks)
<icf7> broonie: man-di told me otherwise. That's my point: There is no central, unique, and *binding* instance although it would rapidly enhance packaging, especially for non-MOTUs
<broonie> In terms of Debian things become best practice long before they are binding policy.
<man-di> icf7: such a doku would be much bigger when wikipedia, when complete
<man-di> icf7: and as broonie said, Debian isnt so formal, you are allowed to do things as you like
<broonie> Excluding technical requirements like the transition to the Python policy the list of things you *should* do will always lag the documentation.
<icf7> man-di: I doubt that, if it's limited to packaging
<broonie> Really.
<man-di> icf7: feel free to look at some of the bigger packages
<broonie> Consider things like the array of patch systems - there's none, quilt, dpatch, dbs and others.
<man-di> icf7: like gcc, eclipse, openoffice.org
<broonie> It's only very recently that it was decided to kill debmake, for example.
<man-di> icf7: if you package them accroding to some guideline you would fail
<man-di> icf7: and e.g. there are still packages using yada as build system
<icf7> man-di: I did (Firefox, Eclipse, Konqueror, hello and others), and mimicking their solutions often turns out to be partially or fully wrong
<broonie> It's a bit like the adoption of bzr packaging in Ubuntu - it's being pushed, it's quite probably a good idea but it's not 100% there yet.
<icf7> broonie: That maybe the case because (new) packagers don't even find the name on the Ubuntu packaging guidelines and wherever else they look.
<broonie> The best approach to widespread adoption (where possible) is often to get lintian to warn about not doing it :0
<icf7> broonie: Exactly, and lintian is equivalent to matching a set of BNFs
<broonie> Well, not quite. But note that it is overridable and that it's not always possible (hence the "where possible").
<broonie> In any case, I'd suggest starting with a wiki page linking to best practices and also tracking efforts to push the information there back into more formal documentation.
<icf7> broonie: I'll do that after my exams, I am going to begin working on it about 2007-8-1, I'll try to publis it about a week later
<avoine> when MOTU upload to ftp://upload.ubuntu.com they only upload a .dsc and a .changes files and the autobuilder build the .deb for each architecture?
<icf7> avoine: dput uploads also the *.orig.tar.gz and a few more files
<geser> avoine: in principle yes
<avoine> ok
<avoine> thanks
<gnomefreak> crimsun: are you around?
<gnomefreak> crimsun: ill brb i have to reboot real fast
<ScottK> cromo: When gnomefreak gets back, you might want to point out Bug #125131.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125131 in flashplugin-nonfree "Need to be updated for new stable version (9,0,48,0)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125131
<cromo> ScottK: ok
<gnomefreak> ok lets see what we got
<ScottK> gnomefreak - Bug #125131.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125131 in flashplugin-nonfree "Need to be updated for new stable version (9,0,48,0)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125131
<ScottK> It seemed relevant.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: last i heard many big regresstions in latest
<ScottK> I wasn't sure how recent that release was since the bug was just reported.
<ScottK> Maybe some of them got fixed.
* RickH is mucho loving Ubuntu.
<cromo> I updated it a bit
* ScottK - of course - tends to think of Flash-Not_working as a feature and not a bug.
<RickH> Do other people use other Linux distros?  Is Debian the best?  It seems to be much easier to use than others I've tried.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: well something is wrong with it either way, md5 should match unless adobe played with thier site
<ScottK> Sure thing.
<cromo> gnomefreak: maybe they updated the package?
<gnomefreak> the changelog isnt showing a change for this
<cromo> well, maybe a repackaging ;-)
<RickH> I should've said:  "Does anyone here use other Linux distros as well?"  Is/are Debian-based distros the best you've used?
<cromo> RickH: this is a distro-war request...
* RickH says "Oh, sorry."
<gnomefreak> cromo: the script is either looking in wrong place or adobe screwed something upfor s
<icf7> RickH: You're asking in the wrong channel, try in #opensuse, #rhel , #slackware , #gentoo , #debian ;)
* RickH is just very happy with ubuntu.  It's the best I've used thus far.  Just curious if others felt the same.
<RickH> Point taken, icf7. :)
* RickH is afk for a couple hous.
<icf7> ... and starting a massive flame war
<RickH> Feel free to kick me if you'd like. :)  I'm tough.  I can take it. :)
<cromo> kick RickH ;-)
* RickH grins
<gnomefreak> now that is a small rules file if ive ever seen one :(
<gnomefreak> i think this is more of an adobe issue as everything seems to look atleast as sane as we can get it
<cromo> hold on a sec
<cromo> I'll see how it's here under archlinux
<cromo> that's the md5sum the packagin script here is expecting: 76b38231a68995935185aa42dfda9db7
<gnomefreak> if its looking for install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz than its gonna grab latest stable.
<cromo> yeah, I just had a look at the URL and it's the same
<cromo> I wonder why doesn't the tarball name doesn't obey the common rules and include the version number... 
<gnomefreak> cromo: same as what ubuntu is lookng for
<cromo> everytime I see some kind of package distributed as such I have a strong feeling the software developer is actually linux-newbie
* gnomefreak wonders where the hell flash keeps thier md5sums :(
<cromo> yeah, good point, too
* gnomefreak pinged crimsun because he knows more of flash crap than me (thankfully) but hes not around. anyone else care to find the cause other than the name of the tarball :(
<cromo> I grepped the package for strings, it's a 9.0.48 indeed
<cromo> they updated the package
<cromo> er, they updated the plugin
<RainCT> good night
<gnomefreak> im about to lose power :(
<gnomefreak> wonder if we can go with embedded tarballs so this doesnt keep happening
<qball> anybody here knows how well epm works?
<cromo> gnomefreak: what does the flashplugin license says about that?
<gnomefreak> WGETRC=wgetrc wget http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/current/install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz \
<gnomefreak> that would be the reason
<cromo> indeed
<gnomefreak> our package expects the same version we have had and adobe used same named tar for newest version (common i would think)
<cromo> gnomefreak: we have exactly the same case here under archlinux
<gnomefreak> looking at lic.
<gnomefreak> blame adobe
<gnomefreak> :)
<cromo> yeah...
<gnomefreak> ummmm thats odd
* gnomefreak thinks the copyright file should hold adobes lic. not gpl
<ScottK> gnomefreak: What is the copyright file for?  The stuff that grabs the Flash or the Flash?
<gnomefreak> looks like the scripts
<gnomefreak> ScottK: but either way shouldnt it hold adobes as well?
<ScottK> I'd have to look.
<ScottK> Which I'm not going to do right now.
<gnomefreak> hell i dont blame you :)
<gnomefreak> well im gone beofre power goes out. will look at it tomorrow(upstream version) see how bad its screwed up.
<gnomefreak> noght
<cromo> gnomefreak: opera won't work with it
<cromo> as they changed the method of embeeding
<gnomefreak> that doesnt suprise me a bit
<cromo> *they means Adobe
<Q-FUNK> silly question, but how do I cross the bridge from NM to MOTU?
#ubuntu-motu 2007-07-11
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: It's unrelated.  When you feel you are ready for MOTU, apply.
<Q-FUNK> I am.  Have been since oh... about 2 years now.  I'm just wondering if the work I'm doing on my packages at Debian (plus responding to bugs and merging patches at Ubuntu) is sufficient.
<Q-FUNK> I already was on the community agenda about 2 years ago,  when application was very informal.
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: I'd ask the people who've sponsored your work.  I know Debian work was scored for nixternal and myself when we applied.
<Q-FUNK> ScottK: some of my sponsors are ubuntu core-dev.  that could work.
<TheMuso> ./c
<TheMuso> ugh
<ScottK> Q-FUNK: Sure.  Just ask around among your sponsors, put together your application e-mail and cc them (make sure your wiki page is up to date too).
<Q-FUNK> sounds good.
<ryanakca> How do I enable universe in pbuilder?
<ryanakca> (everything on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto is for creating a new pbuilder... not adding a repo)
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: You need to modify pbuilderrc, and run pbuilder update with --override-config or similar.
<Fujitsu> I haven't used pbuilder in ages.
<ryanakca> Fujitsu: what do you use? plain old chroot?
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: sbuild+schroot
* ryanakca is trying to build python-deb822 for dapper :)
<ryanakca> ah
* TheMuso couldn't go back to pbuilder after several weeks of using sbuild.
* ryanakca googles sbuild
<TheMuso> apt-cache show sbuild
<Fujitsu> It's non-trivial to setup, but much nicer.
<TheMuso> ryanakca: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SbuildLVMHowto
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Aint that the truth./
<StevenK> TheMuso: I can, easily.
<Fujitsu> Does that wiki page work nowadays?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Enlighten me.
<ryanakca> hmmm... LVM... that means reformatting, doesn't it?
<ryanakca> well, repartitioning?
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Not if you have a partition you can do away with, or non-partitioned space.
<StevenK> ryanakca: Not really. If you have a spare partition, mark it as type 8e.
<minghua> Fujitsu, TheMuso: Must I use LVM snapshot with sbuild?
<Fujitsu> You don't have to, but it's cleaner to do so
<TheMuso> minghua: No, but it makes things easier.
<ryanakca> I partitioned all my space into /home or /
* Fujitsu never uses anything but LVM these days.
<Fujitsu> You never know when you'll need it.
<minghua> Hmm, maybe another day, then.
<ryanakca> or wait a second... I'm never going to use that 15GB I left for the windows that came on my comp... hmmm
* minghua doesn't have a large enough harddrive on this laptop to play with LVM snapshots.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Do you use ext3 on LVM?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Normally yes.
* ryanakca would switch the 200GB HD in his webserver with a cheap 40GB one, but... I don't really feel like risking messing up my server
* ryanakca spent a couple days getting it setup 'just right'...
<Fujitsu> ryanakca: That's trivial if you use LVM.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Even /boot is on LVM?
<Fujitsu> Ah, no.
<Fujitsu> I don't think GRUB likes that much.
<minghua> I don't think that's even possible with GRUB.
<Fujitsu> Neither.
<TheMuso> Grub is good, yet has so far to go.
* Fujitsu looks at Storm.
<ryanakca> hmmm...
<minghua> Well, GRUB2 is there.
* minghua never used it though.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: what about my rabbit? :-)
<TheMuso> But Ubuntu doesn't use it for a reason obviously
<ryanakca> Fujitsu: there's also the matter that my LAMP + mail server is also my pbuilder server
<Q-FUNK> grub2 is getting there. rumor has that lenny might use it by default on triarch-1.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Okay, so pbuilder is a little slow, since it unpacks a base tarball, but you can't log into a sbuild schroot when a build fails. I also find that sbuild fails to make a new snapshot, but if you try it again, it works fine.
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: cowdancer and cowbuilder.
* ryanakca will stick with pbuilder
<StevenK> cowdancer can't deal with some file modes, due to the LD_PRELOAD hack it uses.
<Q-FUNK> oh?
<minghua> Q-FUNK: What is triarch-1?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I'm sure you can convince sbuild to not destroy the snapshots if the build fails.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ok. If a build fails with sbuild, you have a log without having to make the effort to get one. Secondly, if you set up a shared aptcache, like what I have done with my sbuild setups, you can easy chroot in, unpack source package, build-dep install deps, and attempt to build by hand if you need to.
<StevenK> TheMuso: Oh yes, and if your build starts a daemon like dbusd, sbuild won't umount and deactivate the sanpshots.
<persia> StevenK: --purge=successful might be what you want
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: Read the docs for cowbuilder.
<Fujitsu> That was fixed a couple of months ago, StevenK.
<TheMuso> StevenK: There is a patch for the mount script to ensure everything gets killed to unmount the snapshot.
<ryanakca> hmm... any body know of a python-deb822 package on dapper?
<Q-FUNK> minghua: debian has two netinstall cd that can be used to cover 3 arch.  cd#1 can do amd64,i386,powerpc.  cd#2 alpha,ia64,hppa.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Fixed in sbuild?
<Nafallo> "After this finishes, you must re-log-in!" <-- why will I need that? *reading the SbuildLVMHowto*
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Or schroot, I forget.
<Fujitsu> It's in the Ubuntu package, anyway.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Its a schroot fix actually.
<minghua> Q-FUNK: I see, thanks.  That is known to me as "the useful multiarch CD" :-)
<StevenK> In Feisty?
<Fujitsu> Ah, no.
<Fujitsu> That's prehistoric.
<TheMuso> Don't think so. I had to manually patch mine.
<persia> Nafallo: It sets your config variables correctly.  With a GUI, you only need to start a new shell.
* ryanakca kindof needs it to finish his 'send my .dsc to build server, queue it, build it, put the .deb in repo, put build logs on webserver & have libnotify pop up on my desktop telling me my build is done' script :)
<Nafallo> persia: what's wrong with sourceing the file?
<TheMuso> StevenK: afaik the patch is linked to from the URL I gave above.
<persia> Nafallo: That might work as well.
<Nafallo> thought so
<ryanakca> backporting python-deb822 should be as simple as passing it threw a dapper pbuilder?
<TheMuso> ryanakca: I'd say dependencies will have to be adjusted.
<persia> ryanakca: There's been heaps of changes to python policy: you might need to also change the install model.
* ryanakca grumbles
<ryanakca> might just be easier to rewrite the script without it :)
<StevenK> Hah, the Feisty version doesn't have the patch.
<persia> StevenK: You can get the patch from http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=391319
<ubotu> Debian bug 391319 in schroot "schroot: leftover processes cause umount to fail" [Normal,Fixed]  
<StevenK> persia: Yeah, I'm reading through it now.
<ScottK> lionel: Are you in need of more help in processing the backports queue?
* RickH returns ... see, no flame war ensued! :)
<persia> Regarding REVU procedure: should one send an upload notification email when reuploading something that has been corrected based on comments from the archive-admins?
<ryanakca> are there any debian-devels willing to check http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5961 ? aoeui was rejected on the first round because the copyright file said GPLv2 or later instead of GLPv2 _only_.
<persia> ryanakca: Why limit to debian-devels?  Also, if you've adjusted debian/copyright to match COPYING, you should be safe.
<ryanakca> persia: well, anybody else, but a debian devel needs to reupload it, and then I'll have it synced to Ubuntu
<persia> ryanakca: Ah.  You might want to force GPL2 in your common-licenses link then :)
<ryanakca> ?
* ryanakca grumbles
<persia> ryanakca: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/aoeui-0707102130/aoeui-1.0.3/debian/copyright shows 1) "or any later version", and 2) points to the GPL symlink, rather than the GPL2 license.
<ryanakca> persia: Yes. I missed something crucial as well
<ryanakca> persia: reuploaded, just a second... I won't say anything more about the copyright file if you've missed it.
<persia> ryanakca: I'm not an expert, so if you know of something else, please fix that as well.
<ryanakca> persia: look who it's copyright to :)
<ryanakca> and where it was downloaded from, and the upstream author :)
<persia> ryanakca: Yes, and when, and all the additional licenses :)
<ryanakca> I had originally packaged 1.0alpha5, and then upstream released 1.0.3, so I thought about multiple binaries since it now included aoeui and asdfg, but, I had forgotten to copy over the old debian/ when I decided to stick to single binary
<ryanakca> hmm.. could a debian devel now look at (and hopefully reupload) http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5962 ?
<persia> ryanakca: Separately, you might get better coverage from debian mentors: there are a number of DDs here, but not as many as there are there.
<ryanakca> persia: hmm... on OFTC?
<persia> ryanakca: Probably: that seems to be the preferred Debian network (although I'm not familiar with Debian mentors processes).
* ajmitch wonders if he should file a sync request now, or wait for it to get out of debian incoming
* ScottK would guess the archive admins are sleeping now anyway, so no need to wait.
<ajmitch> incoming should process in < 24 h anyway
<ajmitch> monotone is currently uninstallable, and I need it
<ScottK> ajmitch: You need food.  Do you really need monotone ;-)
<ajmitch> yes!
<ajmitch> and grabbing that source at 15K/sec is painful
<ajmitch> down to 14K now
<StevenK> 14K from where?
* ScottK is still trying to figure out why his upload showed up on his Debian package overview as incoming and then disappeared, but showed up fine on the package page and at f.d.o.
<ScottK> Ouch.
* StevenK plots and schemes to replace a Debian server at work with Ubuntu.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Heh do it!
<ScottK> Here's a related question....
<ajmitch> ScottK: because there's a magic window in which packages disappear 
<ScottK> And then come back?
<ajmitch> yes
<ScottK> Cool.  Thanks.
<ajmitch> there seems to be some mirroring delay at times
<ScottK> Hmmmm
<ajmitch> or if it's on the mirrors, but not packages.qa.d.o, then maybe that's just not updating properly
<StevenK> TheMuso: The machine in question is very heavily used. I'm testing a Dapper install to see if it's doable.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Ah ok.
<ScottK> I have an old Xandros 3 box (based on Debian Sarge).  I'm wondering what would happen if I changed sources.list to Ubuntu and apt-get installed kubuntu-desktop?
<ajmitch> StevenK: why do you want to convert it?
<ajmitch> ScottK: pain & suffering
<ScottK> Cool.  I like pain and suffering.  I'll trick one of my kids into doing it.  It's their computer.
<ajmitch> ScottK: you'll need to pick through & resolve some conflicts & dependency breakage manually
<ajmitch> I did it for sid->hoary
<ScottK> Right.  If that's all, I should be able to manage it.
<StevenK> ajmitch: The Debian install is held together with sticky tape and sheer force of will. It also has software installed that is not packaged and parts of the configuration are ... interesting.
<ScottK> It'd be more fun to trick on of the kids into suffering through it though.
<ajmitch> StevenK: ah, one of them
<StevenK> ajmitch: Yes, exactly. So me and the other sysadmin here want it to go away.
<ScottK> StevenK needs to have a "Hard drive failure".
* ScottK also reads BOFH regularly.
<ajmitch> rubber mallet time?
<StevenK> Heh, I don't think it will come to that.
<ScottK> Depends on how sharp the people who might care are.
* StevenK is just testing package installation/configuration on a virtual Dapper installation.
<ajmitch> the people who may care can probably find these irc logs on google :)
<StevenK> And then to see if the bare metal can cope with the Ubuntu kernel.
<ScottK> That's a good point.
<ScottK> About Googel.
<ScottK> err. Google.
<ScottK> Typing and Scotch don't mix.
<ScottK> I'm sure this StevenK isn't the one they are looking for.
<ajmitch> but at least the scotch tastes good, I hope
<ScottK> It does.
<ScottK> It's a blend, but not bad.  One can't have everything.
<StevenK> ScottK: Re: bug 57951, I agree
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 57951 in xchat "[SRU]  xchat crashes frequently on quit" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57951
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
<StevenK> ScottK: Backport a fix to -backports, sure. SRU? Nope, I don't think so.
<ScottK> I disposed of most of the non-emacs part of the UUS queue without uploading anything.
<ScottK> StevenK: Yep.
<StevenK> Heh, yay.
<ScottK> Got one all the way from a debdiff to invalid.
* ScottK ponders fixing a security issue in libnet-dns-perl.
<StevenK> Heh. Oops.
<StevenK> Apache 2 doesn't like it if you don't have any sites in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled...
<StevenK> (Server in question will be moving from a 2.4 kernel, postgres 7.4, and apache 1 to 2.6, postgres 8.1 and apache 2, hence all the testing)
<ScottK> Seems reasonable.
<ScottK> StevenK: Care to offer an opinion on the fix proposed here:
<ScottK> http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.qpsmtpd/2006/12/msg5882.html
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That sounds like a nasty migration. Any evil proprietary stuff that isn't likely to work?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Nope, it's all open source. :-)
<persia> Does anyone have a good reason to keepo 57951 in queue?  Single digits would be nice :)
<Fujitsu> Ah, good. One of our clients uses a proprietary timesheeting package, which didn't like me upgrading PostgreSQL at all.
<StevenK> ScottK: That seems fairly ugly.
<ScottK> StevenK: That was sort of my response.  Before I do anything I'm going to download 0.60 and see what the official fix was.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: We've had to write a Perl script that munges a database dump so PostgreSQL 8.1 likes it.
<Fujitsu> Ouch.
<ajmitch> evil
<StevenK> Fujitsu: And the database dump is ~ 6Gb
<Fujitsu> (this server is Gentoo, so upgrades are most painful)
<Fujitsu> Hahah, big.
<StevenK> Ewww, Gentoo on a server.
<ajmitch> biggest dumps I have to deal with here are 3-400MB
<Fujitsu> Have any of you dealt with a Gentoo server that hasn't been upgraded in 2 years?
<StevenK> Does it have speed stripes and a wing? :-P
<ajmitch> though we have a number of databases to deal with, so the total could be several GB
<ajmitch> StevenK: you forgot the neon glow
<ScottK> Sounds like billable hours, says the consultant...
<StevenK> Heh, yes.
<Fujitsu> It's being replaced soon, so will hopefully be Etchified.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Not Dapper?
<ajmitch> is archive.ubuntu.com horribly slow for others today?
<StevenK> Oh come on, tar. Move it!
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Possibly. I'm yet to decide.
* StevenK gets out and pushes.
* ajmitch runs etch on everything here
<persia> ajmitch: I see about 300K/s from a.u.c.  Perhaps it's local?
<ajmitch> persia: you mean the piece of string from NZ to the world? quite likely
* Fujitsu can see them sending data over wet string.
* persia thinks someone should either pull more fiber to NZ, fix the stupid routing tables regarding traffic through AU, or just move the islands.
* Fujitsu thinks AU/NZ should just vanish.
<ajmitch> persia: southern cross cable is getting an upgrade to ~1.2Tbps, I heard
<Fujitsu> I can't see us getting any significant bandwidth in the foreseeable future.
<Fujitsu> And latency is high.
<ajmitch> someone should increase the speed of light
<Fujitsu> Definitely.
<persia> ajmitch: That doesn't help me much, but should be better for you.
<persia> Fujitsu: Nah - just need more cables to singapore - there's decent bandwidth up north.
<ajmitch> more cables, and lower prices per GB on them
<persia> ajmitch: That, or inflation.  Abundances usually adjust pricing (e.g. cross-Asia routing price changes with FLAG introduction)
<ajmitch> depends if there's a monopoly on the infrastructure
<ajmitch> like telstra & telecom
<persia> ajmitch: Oh.  Right.  I like to avoid thinking about them :)
<Fujitsu> I really don't see how it makes any kind of sense to have the company that holds a monopoly over pretty much all infrastructure also being a consumer ISP, and being privatised.
<ScottK> The key question is makes sense for who.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Being? Is.
<Fujitsu> It's not fully privatised yet, is it?
<StevenK> Sure it is. T3 was the last chunk
<Fujitsu> Ah. Fantastic.
<persia> Fujitsu: Depends on the rent that can be collected by the polity.  If the license fee for the monopoly is sufficient, it may make sense to policymakers.
<StevenK> Why do you think iiNet and co have raised prices all of a sudden?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I don't monitor ISP prices much... We're stuck on Optus for the foreseeable future, so there's no point.
<StevenK> I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Privatising Telstra is a good move, but *only* if the infrastructure isn't there's.
<Fujitsu> Right, the infrastructure owner should be the government.
<ScottK> StevenK: int rand(MAX_ID) and pray for no collision is the upstream solution in 0.60.  I guess if it's good enough for upstream, it's good enough for us, right?
<persia> Does Telstra still control the equipment licensing as well, or has that been retained by the government?
<Fujitsu> But if they don't have the infrastructure, then they're no different from any other ISP.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Exactly.
<StevenK> persia: Equipment licensing was never Telstra's to begin with.
<StevenK> It's always been Austel.
* ScottK tries out dch -s for the first time...
* persia corrects my faulty memory
* StevenK idly wonders if anyone has investigated why ghostscript SEGVs on ia64.
<ajmitch> StevenK: this is why the government is forcing separation of telecom here
<StevenK> ajmitch: Ahh, Telecom NZ is going to be forced to release the infrastructure?
<ajmitch> split into separate retail, wholesale & infrastructure companies, iirc
<ajmitch> the details are being argued out at the moment
* Fujitsu moves to NZ.
<StevenK> Heh heh
<persia> Fujitsu: Sacrificing bandwidth for freedom is brave, but is it wise?
<ajmitch> so we'll finally get local loop unbundling this year
<ajmitch> and maybe even get ADSL2+ this year or next, though I'm not holding my breath
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Did I read right that Optus is counting uploads?
<persia> Is it just me, or is tiber down?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Not last time I checked...
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: ah ok, I saw something on whirlpool about it.
<ajmitch> persia: I can ssh to it
<persia> ajmitch: Thanks.  It's just me then :(
<Fujitsu> Well, I'm not sure about it... It might have changed recently.
<Fujitsu> Ah, only their new plans.
<ScottK> StevenK: You're a core-dev, right?
<StevenK> Apparently.
<StevenK> :-P
<ScottK> Would you please confirm my nominations for Dapper/Edgy in Bug #125180?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125180 in libnet-dns-perl "id sequence is predictable and the same in all child processes" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125180
<ScottK> libnet-dns-perl was in Main for those releases.
<ScottK> The bug affects all of them.
<StevenK> ScottK: Done.
<ScottK> Thanks.
* ajmitch probably won't be core dev for much longer
<StevenK> ajmitch: Oh?
<ajmitch> expiry
<StevenK> Which just means asking the TB nicely, I thought.
* ajmitch shrugs
<ScottK> Or somebody else asking for him so he doesn't escape so easliy.
<StevenK> Heh
* StevenK notes he is now heartily sick of FLAC.
<StevenK> ScottK: Do you need a hand with that libnet-dns-perl bug?
<persia> StevenK: Is anything left?  Do you need a hand?  I thought you already fixed it all.
<ScottK> StevenK: It's just a question of grinding through the three releases.  If I get tired before I'm done, I'll let you know.
<ScottK> StevenK: Thanks for asking.
<StevenK> persia: Pretty much everything is sorted out. There are a few things still on the NBS list for ia64 since the build failed due to ghostscript SEGV'ing.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  I'm not sure I can help with that.  Sorry.
<StevenK> persia: I'm going to ask pitti about it when he resurfaces.
<StevenK> Debugging ghostscript on ia64 doesn't really appeal to me, though
* persia wants a tool that reviews all the files in a source tree, excerpts the copyright & licensing comments, and makes a nice report.
<persia> StevenK: Do you have ia64?
<StevenK> Nope.
<StevenK> I have access to a few, due to my shiny DD badge.
<persia> StevenK: Ah.  Does Debian ghostscript also break?  Perhaps you could get someone else to help...
<StevenK> That's a good point.
<ScottK> If it doesn't, I'm sure persia would gladly help you break it.
<StevenK> I might ask fabbionne about it, I think he has an ia64
<persia> ScottK: I don't really know how to break ghostscript.  Perhaps using it as a backend for Cocoa or Carbon?
<persia> s/backend/frontend/
<ScottK> persia: I was just able to decline your nomination of that xchat bug for Edgy, so it works.
<persia> ScottK: Excellent.  When I originally nominated that, it wasn't working :)  Only 9 to do (with almost 80% waiting on emacs22).
<ScottK> Did you see I got the bzr-svn one all the way to invalid?
<ScottK> So if I do all 3 releases and ubuntu-security is subscribed, then I'm done, right?
<ScottK> keescook: When you wake up, Bug #125180 is ready for you to review/upload...
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125180 in libnet-dns-perl "id sequence is predictable and the same in all child processes" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125180
<StevenK> Hrm. Last security upload I did, pitti got me to do the upload myself.
<ScottK> Yes, but you're special.
<ScottK> That and you actually know Perl (which would be better for this particular one).
<ScottK> Good night everyone.  I'm going to bed now that that's done.
<persia> ScottK: Good night.  You're brave for 122073 - I just decided not to touch it :)
<imbrandon> ...
<persia> Hi imbrandon.
<imbrandon> heya persia 
<DarkMageZ> is bugs.launchpad.net having issues for anyone else atm?
<persia> DarkMageZ: It's working here.
<imbrandon> fine here too
<DarkMageZ> hmm, trippy. everywhere besides launchpad.net is happy.
<persia> DarkMageZ: An an update: now it's not working for me as well...
<DarkMageZ> ubuntu.com is down as well?
<Fujitsu> The DC has vanished.
<jikanter> persia: I am having a problem with security.ubuntu.com, but not us.archive.ubuntu.com for some reason
<Fujitsu> Well, a.u.c exists, but the rest doesn't.
<Fujitsu> LP is gone, the various machines I know of are gone...
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Do you want to report it in #canonical-sysadmin?
* persia wonders if it's a 6:30 in london thing...
* Fujitsu did so.
* Fujitsu wonders if he should have pinged The Big 4(tm).
<jikanter> I just did
<Fujitsu> Not directly at the sysadmins, though.
<jikanter> oops, I don't know which are the sysadmins
* Fujitsu runs off home.
<jikanter> Fujitsu: I would be happy to try and fix it if they would let me in.... It just seems like nobody is home...
<jikanter> Fujitsu: did you get a response?
<jml> The sysadmins are working on the problem now, apparently
<Flannel> Someone should put it in the topic in #ubuntu
<sacater> hrm, is the wiki down?
<DarkMageZ> sacater, lots of down atm. ubuntu.com launchpad.net
<sacater> DarkMageZ: argh
<sacater> launchpad is down
<sacater> darnit
<DarkMageZ> downtime is what happens to those who put all their eggs in one basket.
<ajmitch> www.markshuttleworth.com is down! oh noes!
<DarkMageZ> oh no! anything else :s
* ajmitch was just trying to read any flames in comments about gobuntu :)
<DarkMageZ> what's the point behind gobuntu anyways? don't we already have gnusence?
* ajmitch shrugs
<persia> DarkMageZ: gNewSense is a response to a perceived problem in Ubuntu.  Gobuntu is a response.  Now for the competition for mindshare :)
* ajmitch will keep using boring old standard ubuntu
* DarkMageZ waits for e18 to hit final release...
<DarkMageZ> :P
<ajmitch> you may as well wait for duke nukem forever
<imbrandon> e18 has duke nukem forever included
<imbrandon> its on the feature list
<DarkMageZ> lol
* persia suspects e18 will provide 4-D full-realism graphics running on a Altair 4004.
<DarkMageZ> yeah. only 4d on those lowend systems. 5d will be available with p2 and higher :)
<\sh> guys, if there is a binary dep telling me: Depends: libasound2 (>> 1.0.10) means, that it needs at least libasound2 1.0.11, right? not only 1.0.10-2ubuntu4
<StevenK> >> is >=
<\sh> ok...so there is a bug in the calculation of deps here...
<\sh> btw...did anyone setup a nexuiz 2.3 server on feisty ?
* TheMuso returns from a walk.
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<damko> Hi all
<damko> someone of u remember Cobalt and its products (Cube, Raq etc)?
<imbrandon> damko, yes
<imbrandon> i have two raq's at home
<damko> imbrandon: do u know some other appliance like that? 
<damko> it seems that Sun doesn't produce them anymore
<imbrandon> not right off, just webserver appliances?
<damko> mm no better file sharing appliance
<damko> with Pdc support
<damko> I saw some projects in launchpad but they r too new
<damko> imbrandon: I refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEasyFilePrintServer
<imbrandon> you could try freenas
<damko> and related
<imbrandon> http://www.freenas.org/
<damko> imbrandon: thanks . reading
<NeilW> vim-rails upload to REVU (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5966). Could one of you kind MOTUs take a look. Thanks.
<imbrandon> ./` ... she was up when the key hit the lock, and the clock looked at me just like the devil in discuise ... ./` ./`
<ajmitch> yay for glibc 2.6
<ScottK> If there is someone here who's running Gutsy, would you please install clamav and see if you get an error installing.  I've got Bug #125169, Bug #125184, and/or Bug #125230 that I suspect are dupes of Bug #124141, but I can't tell for sure.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125169 in clamav "package clamav 0.90.3-2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: dependency problems - leaving unconfigured" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125169
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125184 in clamav "package clamav-freshclam 0.90.3-2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: le sous-processus post-installation script a retourn une erreur de sortie d'tat 139" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125184
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125230 in clamav "package clamav-daemon 0.90.3-2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: problemas de dependencias - se deja sin configurar" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125230
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124141 in linux-source-2.6.22 "kernel bug when installing clamav-freshclam" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124141
<ajmitch> ScottK: works for me
<ajmitch> Linux augustine 2.6.22-6-generic #1 SMP Fri Jun 1 00:54:39 GMT 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<ScottK> Flip.
<ajmitch> not the latest 2.6.22, and amd64
<ScottK> Hmmm.  Since I know there's a kernel issue in there somewhere, it may be architecture specific or in a newer kernel than you've got.  Thanks.
* ScottK takes notes.
<ajmitch> np
* imbrandon yawns
<imbrandon> moins ajmitch ScottK 
<ScottK> Heya imbrandon.  How is Kansas City these days?
<ajmitch> hi imbrandon 
* ajmitch is about to go & sleep
<imbrandon> good good ScottK 
<imbrandon> bout to get remarried sometime this month
<imbrandon> heh
<imbrandon> so i guess its good
<ScottK> Ah.  Congrats.
<ajmitch> oh?
<ajmitch> good work
<imbrandon> well we were married for 3 years, split, dident see each other for 8 years , now its back on like donky kong :)
<imbrandon> kinda strange
<ajmitch> haha
<imbrandon> lol
<ajmitch> not every day that happens :)
<ajmitch> got aurora back up & running?
<imbrandon> i looked at it last night, i think i'm just gonna replace the mb and proc , i wanted to add sata ports anyhow
<imbrandon> for the raid
<ajmitch> ok
<\sh> imbrandon: marriage v2.0? :)
<ajmitch> see django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs/
<imbrandon> \sh, hehe yea
<ajmitch> I want to stick stuff like that on it
<\sh> imbrandon: congrats :) lucky man I say :)
<imbrandon> ajmitch, wanna put it on my webserver that hosts ubuntustudio.org and imbrandon.com ?
<ajmitch> maybe
<imbrandon> probably be more reliable
<ajmitch> though I want to be able to hack the code as needed
<imbrandon> as i monitor the uptime on it
<imbrandon> yea i would give you ssh
<ajmitch> DB permissions?
<imbrandon> lemme see if i can get django working on lighttpd , yea you can have as much db space as needed 
<imbrandon> it still has 600GB of space
<TheMuso> imbrandon: Thats great to hear. Good luck with it, and I hope things work out better tis time.
<ajmitch> right, will I have db create, table create/delete, etc?
<TheMuso> s/tis/this/
<imbrandon> yea i'll just give ya full perms on a db named like ajmitch 
<ajmitch> k
<imbrandon> TheMuso, thanks
<imbrandon> main thing is makin sure django works on lighttpd , perms i trust you enough to give you sudo etc, and as i'm the only other one with shell access to the webserver it should be cool
<ajmitch> right, I'll try not to break anything
<imbrandon> give me a few to check into the django thing , if its all good i can set it up in moments
<ajmitch> not sure if anyone will use this stuff, but oh well
<ajmitch> django & lighttpd should be simple
<imbrandon> yea should be 
* ajmitch isn't committed to django either, it just seems to work without too much frustration
* ajmitch sleeps
<imbrandon> ajmitch, one sec
<ajmitch> make it quick :)
<imbrandon> i almost have everything setup lemme give you the info
<imbrandon> you can ssh with your key 
<ajmitch> k
<imbrandon> i'll pm the sudo passwd
<imbrandon> and setting up the db now
<ajmitch> send via mail, gpg
<imbrandon> k
<imbrandon> http://ajmitch.ubuntuwire.com/
<ajmitch> ok, thanks
<ajmitch> that's voyager?
<imbrandon> i'll email the password, for the db it will be the same as your sudo password
<imbrandon> yea voyager
<imbrandon> its localdir is /storage/websites/ajmitch.ubuntuwire.com
<ajmitch> where I already have sudo setup?
<imbrandon> yea i just made you an account on voyager
<imbrandon> and gave you sudo
<imbrandon> i just need to finish the db creation
<ajmitch> ok
<imbrandon> db server is localhost
<ajmitch> as usual
<imbrandon> ajmitch@ ?
<ajmitch> ajmitch.net.nz
<xxxxx1> good morning (?) all!
<imbrandon> ok ajmitch sent
<imbrandon> sleep well, lemme know if you need anything else
<ajmitch> k, got it
<ajmitch> now I can sleep :)
<ajmitch> night all
<zul_> hey
<imbrandon> ello
<minghua> xxxxx1: Hello there.  Thanks for working on that r-cran-psy bug.
<xxxxx1> hello minghua!
<xxxxx1> we're working together ;)
<minghua> Nah.  I am merely reading bug reports and adding random comments. :-P
<ScottK> keescook: I went ahead and filed a bug for the other Net::DNS CVE, Bug #125236.  Dunno if I'll get time to work on updating the patch for it.  The 0.60 upstream patch includes a new test for this case that is about half the patch and adds a new file.  I assume you don't want that for *-security, you just want the actual code fix.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125236 in libnet-dns-perl "Bugs in dn_expand (XS and PP) on mailformed packages" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125236
<Baby> siretart: u there? :)
<ScottK> BTW, if there are any core-devs handy, I'd appreciate it if you would confirm the Dapper/Edgy tasks on that bug.
<keescook> ScottK: I've just gotten it built locally, so don't worry about the patch for that one.
<keescook> it should be published shortly.
<ScottK> Ah.  Great.  Then I won't.  At least you have the bug report now....
<keescook> yes, excellent, thanks.  :)
<imbrandon> ScottK, done
<ScottK> imbrandon: Thanks.
<imbrandon> np
<ScottK> keescook: Sorry about missing the CVE.  I choose to blame Redhat.  The Fedora advisory where I initially saw this didn't mention there was a CVE on it.
<ScottK> Also interesting that their solution is to push the new version to all supported Fedora releases.
<xxxxx1> can someone please take a look at bug #123582 ? it have a pending verification-motu on feisty task.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123582 in gnochm "[missing dependency]  python-gtkhtml2" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123582
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> xxxxx1: What is it you want me to do?
<norsetto> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5964 is looking for reviewers!
<xxxxx1> ScottK, it's accepted into feisty-proposed and need a verification-motu-done to be in -updates
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Before that can happen, two people need to install the feisty-proposed version and comment "It works" on the bugs and 7 days need to pass.  Neither of those have happened yet.
<xxxxx1> exactly. that's the reason of my comment :) just to know if someone is on
<ScottK> Ah.  The normal procedure is to send a mail to the motu list and ask that way.
<ScottK> Anyone can do the testing, not just a MOTU.
<norsetto> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5964 is up for review. Champagne and cotillons for all .....
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Here's an example: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-July/001887.html
<xxxxx1> great
<xxxxx1> thanks scottk
<ScottK> xxxxx1: I'll make you a deal: You test my python-scientfic SRU and I'll test yours...
<xxxxx1> hehe
<xxxxx1> np.
<xxxxx1> i'll do it now.
<xxxxx1> ScottK, py works fine.
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Thanks.  I'm looking at yours now.
<ScottK> Of course that package drags in nearly all of Gnome it looks like, so it may be a while....
<norsetto> Any Indonesian here?
<CrummyGummy> Hi all. Once I've configured the debian directory. What command do I use to build the deb?
<ScottK> CrummyGummy: What are you trying to build?  Source package or binary package?
<CrummyGummy> binary
<ScottK> debuild -us -uc will do it.
<ScottK> It'll leave your source tree dirty in many cases, so make a copy first.
<ScottK> It may do other things too.  It's best to set up a pbuilder and use that.
* ScottK just saw the clamav 0.91 release announcement....
<CrummyGummy> Oh, right. How bad "other things"?
<ScottK> If your debian/rules are well crafted, nothing.  If they aren't you may install random files from your package in other parts of your system.
<ScottK> Depending on what/where, bad varies.
<joejaxx> grrr
<joejaxx> has anyone else noticed that who ever packaged fluxbox in debian took out the xsession file line from debian/rules?
<joejaxx> in the newer version 1.0rc3
<joejaxx> so the fluxbox.desktop file is never copied :P
<imbrandon> joejaxx, i had noticed that before, dont know if it was intentional or not though
<imbrandon> might poke them
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> imbrandon: i will send them an email
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Worked for me.  Now to get this gnome stuff off my box....
<xxxxx1> ScottK, rsrsrs
<xxxxx1> ScottK, thanks!
<man-di> Does somebody agrees that we should just close https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/azureus/+bug/75147 with a comment, becuase the reporter is using non-ubuntu azureus?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 75147 in azureus "[Not start]   wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS64 - java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: /opt/azureus/libswt-pi-gtk-3232.so" [Undecided,New]  
<ScottK> Yes.  Mark it invalid because it's not an Ubuntu package.
<ScottK> So, to answer your actual question, someone does agree. ;-)
<man-di> Thanks ScottK 
<LucidFox> So, considering the libgpod 0.4.2-to-0.5.2 upgrade issue.
<LucidFox> gtkpod-aac is an Ubuntu-exclusive package tied to gtkpod versions, so it will have to be repackaged after gtkpod is synced from Debian.
<persia> LucidFox: Does the current upstream compile cleanly against libgpod 0.5.2?
<LucidFox> (bug #124900)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124900 in libgpod "Please sync gtkpod-0.99.10, libgpod-0.5.2 from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124900
<LucidFox> persia> I haven't even tried it, gtkpod seems to be tied to specific libgpod versions
<minghua> In that case, the question is: Does new gtkpod/libgtkpod build fine on gutsy?
<LucidFox> yes
<LucidFox> amarok and rhythmbox also build fine with new libgpod
<LucidFox> kipi-plugins is dubious, I think I'll either need someone else to build test it or 
<LucidFox> ...or I'll try again building it myself in a few hours, after resolving some issues with the build environment
<persia> LucidFox: How about tripod?  I don't see it in the bug.
<minghua> What is the issue then?  Just build the new gtkpod/libgtkpod packages, install them, and start porting gtkpod-aac.
<LucidFox> tripod?
<persia>     tripod |    0.7.0-1 | gutsy/universe | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
<LucidFox> ah, I see
<LucidFox> forgot about that one
<LucidFox> I'll test it right away
<persia> LucidFox: Thanks.  Aside from tripod and testing on kipi-plugins, it looks like you've prepared a good summary for the transition.  Some of this is in main, so you'll need sponsors from both MOTU and core (and probably a cooperative archive-admin to support the syncs).
<siretart> Baby: yes
<Baby> siretart: better here
<Baby> siretart: some people keeps asking me about the small cute games I put into Debian, if they're available in Ubuntu too
<Baby> is there a way I can help about that?
<siretart> Baby: can you compile me a list of them?
<siretart> Baby: I (or any other MOTU) can request them to be synced from debian
<Baby> bouncy, whichwayisup, hex-a-hop and snowballz
<ogra> Baby, anything of interest for the education dept. among them ? 
<Baby> aha, I will pester you about them then, unless you point mee to someone else :)
<persia> Baby: siretart: I'd be happy to prepare a bug to sync those, unless one of you would prefer to do so.
<Baby> ogra: yup, especially bouncy, hex-a-hop and maybe snowballz
<siretart> persia: I'm in a hurry today, if you have time right now, please do
<Baby> persia: thanks a lot if you take care of that :)
<Baby> persia: anything you need about them, just ask me :)
<persia> Sure.  No problem.  Do either of you want subscriptions?
<ogra> Baby, i'll take a look if they are in then :)
<ogra> persia, me please :)
<Baby> ogra: hex-a-hop is great! I love it!
<Baby> persia: me too please :)
<Nightrose> persia: me please for hex-a-hop
* Nightrose is waiting for it since Baby talks about it all the time ;-)
<Baby> bouncy is really nice for small kids
<ScottK> Baby: How small?
<norsetto> ogra: have you seen my email? (subject: mentoring)
<Baby> ScottK: the author says 3 yo but i won't believe that, I'd go for 6
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.  I have one 4.
<Baby> too many keys for a 3 yo
<Baby> but that might depend on the kid i guess
<ScottK> Arghh!  Test build in Sid  pbuilder, builds.  Test build in Gutsy pbuilder, builds.  Uploaded to Debian, builds.  Request sync, FTBFS on the buildds....
<Baby> snowballz is a strategy game, but the cool thing is that it's not a war, but a snowball fight between penguins
<persia> ScottK: scons?
<Baby> I don't like games involving wars
<ScottK> No.
<ogra> norsetto, yes, sorry i'm extremly busy at the distro sprint, i'd have anwered already :) i'm fine metoring any edubuntu related work, he can just pop by in #edubuntu :)
<ScottK> persia: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8414319/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.pypolicyd-spf_0.4-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<tuxmaniac> How do I install multidistrotool scripts and generate data like the one LaserJock has generated in the page http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/motuscience/feisty/electronics.html
<Baby> be careful with hex-a-hop... it's quite addictive :P
<norsetto> ogra: okki dokki, thanks
<tuxmaniac> i would like to do the same for gutsy and keep the wiki updated
<norsetto> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5964 is waiting for reviewers .....
<persia> ScottK: Very odd.  I'd suggest "dh_installdirs etc/python-policyd-spf" rather than "dh_installdirs /etc/python-policyd-spf", but that really shouldn't break it.
<geser> tuxmaniac: http://people.debian.org/~lucas/ubuntu-versions/
<ScottK> persia: It died on the mv though.  Is there some magic CDBS variable I should be using in the path for the mv?
<persia> ScottK: I don't think so: it died on mv because the directory didn't exist (which should have been created by dh_installdirs).
<ScottK> OK.  Well the good news is it's in Universe so I can try that and see how it works without having to annoy anyone.
<ScottK> Also don't need to worry about pissing off the Debian maintainer.
<persia> ScottK: Do you have the initial / in the dirs file?  I suspect that's the issue, as the dh_installdirs specifically mentions not using that.  There may be a "maintainers are lazy" patch in place, but perhaps not on the buildds (I think they run Dapper).
<ScottK> OK.  I'll look into that.
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.  Looking (more carefully this time) at man dh_installdirs I think that's the issue.
<persia> ScottK: Great.  Good luck.
<ciro314> hello. is planned an eclipse europa deb package? thanks in advance
<tuxmaniac> geser, can I install them and use them for finding specific package difference?
<tuxmaniac> I mean for maths related packages etc
<geser> you want to monitor a specific set of packages?
<man-di> ciro314: yes, we are working on it
<ScottK> So if pbuilder will build something that FTBFS on the buildd's is that a pbuilder bug then?
<geser> not necessarily, it can be subtle difference on the buildds (see scons)
<broonie> The SCons thing is partly a package bug, BTW.
<tuxmaniac> geser, yes
<geser> tuxmaniac: bzr get http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/multidistrotools
<tuxmaniac> geser, basically science related packages
<broonie> and has now been reported to SCons upstream.
<geser> broonie: do you have an url for the bug at hand?
<broonie> geser: http://scons.tigris.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=1689
* ScottK dputs
* ScottK nervously waits to see if it builds this time....
<geser> broonie: thanks
<norsetto> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5964 awaits reviewers with anxiety.....
<broonie> (it's not reported in LP or the Debian BTS - the only reason I knew that anyone had diagnosed it was mdz posting on -devle)
<persia> norsetto: Is there any special urgency for that upload?  If so, it would be good to mention it when requesting review.  If not, you don't need to advertise so often: many reviewers will look through the backlog when they have time for a review.
<geser> broonie: the problem with scons and Ubuntu's buildds is known as bug #87077
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 87077 in launchpad-buildd "The build of xmms2 fails because of HASH(0x82db558)="" in the environment" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87077
<broonie> Oh, I knew that people had seen trouble.
<broonie> It was the bit where the problem was diagnosed and kicked either upstream or to the SCons packaging that I meant.
<geser> broonie: as this seems now to be a bug in scons I've also added a bug task for scons to the bug
<ScottK> persia: Did you see the comments in http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5733 - I think you would be the best to address his questions.
<persia> ScottK: I hadn't seen the comments, but that's on my list from separate discussion.  I have yet to find a solution with which I'm happy.
<broonie> geser: Like I say, it's something that the packages can avoid themselves.
<norsetto> persia: ok, thanks for letting me know.
<broonie> geser: They're explicitly passing an entire copy of the environment into the build process; if they changed to only pass variables they need that would avoid triggering the problem in SCons.
<ScottK> persia: OK.  
<norsetto> dholbach: hi Daniel, wie geht es!?
<geser> Hi dholbach
<dholbach> norsetto: hehe - gut gut - how are you?
<dholbach> hey geser
<norsetto> dholbach: fine thanks
<dholbach> cool
<hendrixski> umm... I tried doing the workaround for bug#78165 but I still can't get debuild -S to sign anything
<dholbach> bug 78165
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 78165 in devscripts "debuild fails to use seahorse-agent or gpg-agent" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/78165
<hendrixski> and I've tried creating keys through both seahorse... and this : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<geser> hendrixski: does normal gpg signing work?
<norsetto> just got scolded by Emmet so I think I earned my day :-D
<dholbach> norsetto: why is that?
<norsetto> dholbach: he says I'm a pest
<persia> norsetto: I didn't mean to scold you: just to suggest best practice :)
<hendrixski> geser, lemme double check real quick like
<dholbach> he didn't
<dholbach> :)
<norsetto> dholbach: I only announced about 10365 times that my package is up for review .....
<dholbach> ah right ;)
<ScottK> I'd add that excessive announcement may be counter productive in addition to being annoying.  I tend to bump frequent requestors to the bottom of my list.
<hendrixski> geser, no... it tells me I need a passphrase... but the POS doesn't ask me for it
<leonel> ScottK:   http://lurker.clamav.net/message/20070711.110443.9b334900.en.html
<ScottK> hendrixski: Does your ~/,gnupg/gpg.conf include "use-agent"?
<ScottK> leonel: I saw it.  I'm going to wait for Debian to go first.  We've got plenty of time for Gutsy and I didn't see any security fixes in the announcement.
<hendrixski> ScottK, YES
<leonel> ScottK: yes there are no security updates 
<hendrixski> ScottK, and my /etc/devscripts.conf has *something*_ENVVARS="DISPLAY" set up as well
<ScottK> OK.
<leonel> ScottK: but for this kind  of upgrades it's better to keep with the lattest version 
<leonel> ScottK: on Feisty and dapper  well edgy too 
<hendrixski> should I add a comment to the bug report that the fix just doesn't work...?
<geser> hendrixski: when you can't even sign a normal file than that's probably an other problem
<persia> hendrixski: I think you have a different issue.  The fix definitely changed the behaviour to not require manual environment shuffling for me.
<geser> hendrixski: which pinentry version do you use?
<ScottK> leonel: Once we get a 0.91 package from Debian and some testing time in Gutsy, I'll request a backport to Feisty.  For Dapper/Edgy we need to get through the rest of the dependency testing/fixing.
<hendrixski> geser, pinentry?  
<leonel> ScottK:  the  backports  take time for what i've seen 
<leonel> ScottK: is there some thing we can do to  accelerate this package ?
<ScottK> They do which is a very good reason not to backport something that hasn't been tested.
<hendrixski> geser, I don't even know where to go for help with this stuff... nobody on #ubuntu can ever answer stuff about gpg or about debianizing stuff... and I feel guilty coming here 'cause you guys have legit work to do
<leonel> ScottK: ok
<ScottK> leonel: You could volunteer to help out with backports.  Ask lionel.
<leonel> haha  a backport  from lionel to leonel :)
<ScottK> hendrixski: For debian packaging, this is the right place.
<geser> hendrixski: I don't know how it should work with seahorse as I use gpg directly
* hendrixski has tried both seahorse and gpg directly
<geser> gpg uses pinentry (I've pinentry-gtk2 installed) to ask for the passphrase (or the PIN for my OpenPGP card)
<geser> hendrixski: does signing with gpg from a terminal work?
<persia> hendrixski: First, make sure you can sign something directly.  If you can't, fix that first.  Once that works, try signing with seahorse.  The try something that calls gpg-agent (I find the gedit plugin a good way to call seahorse).  Once that works, try debuild.
<hendrixski> I did gpg --gen-key, filled out the info, then "export GPGKEY=12345" and restarted the servicekillall -q gpg-agent
<hendrixski> eval $(gpg-agent --daemon)
<hendrixski> source ~/.bashrc ... 
<hendrixski> then when I try to gpg --clearsign sample.txt it tells me to go to hell :-(
<geser> which error message do you get?
<hendrixski> persia, geser it _is_ clearsign I should be using to test gpg from the terminal, right?
<geser> right
* persia defers to geser for all GPG questions not specific to seahorse
<hendrixski> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29484/
<hendrixski> oh.... hmmm.. it's actually telling me that I have no pinentry  :-/
<ScottK> You'll need that.
<hendrixski> persia, this is using the key I created from command line with gpg
<geser> hendrixski: sudo apt-get install pinentry-gtk2
<hendrixski> ScottK, which pinentry package would you recomend? the gtk one (since I'm on GNOME)?
* ScottK wonders if seahorse-agent should depend on pinentry-gtk2.
<ScottK> hendrixski: What geser said.
<hendrixski> right... gtk2  :-)
<ScottK> pinentry-gtk has been removed for Gutsy.
<persia> ScottK: It doesn't need to: it works fine here without pinentry-gtk2 installed.
<ScottK> Hmmm
<ScottK> OK. 
<ScottK> Never mind on that bit then.
<hendrixski> ScottK, I saw gtk when I ran apt-cache search... is this recent? ('cause I probably haven't run apt-get update in a few days)
<ScottK> hendrixski: Within the last week.
* hendrixski is running update
<ScottK> The old version might still be in the archives.
* hendrixski thinks security.ubuntu.com repo is slow
<ScottK> That was part of the deal I had to cut to get pinentry into Main (which the source package and pinentry-qt are now).
<ScottK> They are having data center issues today.
<hendrixski> oh  :-(
<hendrixski> oh well... it'll just time out
<hendrixski> Ok... so with pinentry-gtk2 installed...I'll try the clearsign again... :-)
<ScottK> Actually it'll probably be just not quite dead enough to take a very long time to update, but not dead enough to time out.
<hendrixski> ScottK, you may be right... it's still trying to update :-(
* ScottK wasn't guessing.
* ScottK has updated recently.
<ScottK> Acutally one of the boxes did time out, so there is hope.
<hendrixski> k done... yeah, the first one timed out for me too... the second one just took forever
<hendrixski> nice... Ok, clearsign worked :-)
<ScottK> Did it use pinentry?
<hendrixski> ScottK, I'm assuming it did becase it brought up a little box that prompted me for a password, and then it created the .asc :-)
<hendrixski> but... debuild -S did not do the same :-(
<ScottK> Yes.  If it popped a dialogue box it did.
<ScottK> hendrixski: Just use dpkg-buildpackage then.
<hendrixski> k, lemme try that ...
<geser> hendrixski: debsign your.dsc
<geser> this does only the signing
<ScottK> right, what geser said.
<Lutin> Hobbsee: pong, though I dont know about what
<Hobbsee> Lutin: no idea what that was about - had to be at least 2 days ago
<hendrixski> ah, so instead of debuild -S I can just run sudo dpkg-buildpackage and then just clearsign my .dsc?  did I catch that correctly?
<Lutin> Fujitsu: about gtk2hs : iirc I put a comment on DaD saying that other people can take it, as I'm on holidays
<ScottK> hendrixski: debsign it.
* hendrixski googles debsign
<broonie> hendrixski: You don't want to run "sudo dpkg-buildpackage".
<ScottK> broonie: Excellent point.
<hendrixski> broonie, oh?
<hendrixski> fakeroot?
<ScottK> hendrixski: Run it with fakeroot.
<broonie> Also, run with -rfakeroot rather than running the entire process with fakeroot.
<broonie> Only some of the build is supposed to require root; -rfakeroot will ensure that you only build as root for the bits of the build you need.
* persia thinks `debuild -S` should be sufficient.
<hendrixski> :-) gotta get in the habbit of fakerooting stuff instead of sudo-ing everything
<ScottK> persia: Except he's having environment problems with debuild still.
<persia> Hmm..  The new devscripts was supposed to fix that...
<ryanakca> hmmm. can someone help me write a watch file for aoeui ? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5970
<persia> ryanakca: `man uscan` has some useful information towards creating watch files.
<ryanakca> uscan thinks that 1.0_alpha5 is higher that 1.0.3
<hendrixski> hhmmmm... one of the warnings I got was gpg: WARNING: unsafe ownership on configuration file `/home/hendrixski/.gnupg/gpg.conf'
<hendrixski>   it's owned by my user account,,, should it be root owned?
<ryanakca> instead of the other away around...
<ScottK> persia: It does if you are runnin Gutsy.  Not everybody does that.
<ryanakca> hendrixski: I think it means it's readable to everybody instead of you alone
<norsetto> ryanakca: Could this help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/DebianWatch ?
<hendrixski> ryanakca, ah... k
<broonie> hendrixski: It means you're trying to sign as root.
<broonie> hendrixski: (probably)
<tsmithe> thanks man-di 
<man-di> tsmithe: np
<tsmithe> :)
<ryanakca> netsplit?
<Hobbsee> yes
* ryanakca nods
<ryanakca> anybody know of a package containing a debian/watch, who's upstream version is in the style package-3.2_alpha.tar.gz ?
<gnomefreak> ryanakca_: i have to look but i think granparadiso uses a watch file
<gnomefreak> ryanakca_: nope nevermind
<ryanakca_> gnomefreak: kk, thanks, I'll brb, irssi went crazy and connected to freenode twice, so I'm in each channel twice :S
<gnomefreak> :)
<gnomefreak> im gone for a while trying to get everything ready for my trip nextweek
<frafu> bluekuja: thanks for your help two days ago with pbuilder. I posted the debian package in the forums and already have a positive feedback. :)
<frafu> Now I wonder how I can remov,  from the pbuilder environment, the packages that have been downloaded to satisfy the dependencies from the debian package that I have build. sudo pbuilder clean? 
<ScottK> I'm curious if any others share my opinion expressed in Bug #125279 (maybe comment on the bug/confirm it if you can).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125279 in launchpad "Publishing an update to *-proposed incorrectly marks bug "Fix Released"" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125279
<tsmithe> could someone please review ubuntustudio-screensaver <http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5971>, and possibly upload ubuntustudio-sounds <http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5900> and usplash-theme-ubuntustudio <http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5942> (the latter two have already had advocates and uploads, but were rejected due to now-fixed copyright issues)
<tsmithe> thank you :)
<persia> tsmithe: That's an excellent request for sponsorship.  Thank you.
<tsmithe> it is? cool; thanks :)
<ScottK> Yes.  It is.
* ScottK will take a look at 5942.
<tsmithe> thanks
<tsmithe> (i like to provide all the info when i can)
<ScottK> Knowing it was rejected due to Copyright is a very good thing to know.
<persia> Do we send another foo is NEW email when we upload the second time for archive-admin rejections?  I'd be happy to upload 5900 (assuming the copyright is fixed), but don't know if I should be sending mail if I do.
<ScottK> Dunno.  I'd say it can't hurt to send it.
<ryanakca> gnomefreak: back, sorry
<persia> tsmithe: Regarding 5971: 1) it doesn't appear that my comments from the last upload have been addressed, and 2) the .desktop file won't validate in gutsy.
<ScottK> tsmithe: I don't see the copyright info for the font you are distributing (helvB10.bdf) in debian/copyright nor the license.
<ScottK> that was for 5942.
<tsmithe> ok i'll find out
<gnomefreak> ryanakca: wb :)
<tsmithe> persia, hmm, ok, i'll take a look
<persia> tsmithe: Thanks.  Sorry about the sync: I really thought it would be easier that way.
<ScottK> tsmithe: grep -i -R copyright * in your package is a very useful thing to try.
<tsmithe> heh no problem :)
<tsmithe> ScottK, yes
<tsmithe> persia, i thought it would be, too :)
<tsmithe> persia, i spoke with the admins, and they thought that the CC-BY-SA/GPL combination was OK
<tsmithe> i'll fix the description issue
<persia> tsmithe: OK.  That's fine (despite the disagreement with the FSF).  Could you get the admin who said it was OK to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewPackageRequirements with a comment regarding acceptable license combinations?
<tsmithe> sure
<persia> tsmithe: Thanks.
<NeilW> I wonder if somebody would mind reviewing vim-rails uploaded to REVU at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5966. I'm hoping that I've fixed the problems stated in the last review. Many thanks
<ScottK> persia: The leading "/" wasn't my problem.  Any chance you would have another look: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8415030/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.pypolicyd-spf_0.4-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
* persia wonders why there were no review requests during REVU day, and so many now: perhaps Mondays aren't ideal...
<persia> ScottK: Sure.  In about 15 minutes.
<tsmithe> persia, i'm unsure what to do about the .desktop file. what do you mean by "won't validate"?
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.  I'm stumped.
<persia> tsmithe: You'll want to run the desktop-file-validate program (in the desktop-file-utils package) against your .desktop file.  There have been significant changes upstream in response to changes in the spec, which have been brought into gutsy, so you want to run it either in a gutsy chroot, or using a backported desktop-file-utils.
<NeilW> persia: Timezones. I must have asked half a dozen time on the first REVU day before I realised most of you were probably still snoring at the time.
<persia> NeilW: Ah.  Sorry about that.  Mondays are probably still bad (in part because it's Sunday for some people).
<tsmithe> persia, right thanks :)
<ScottK> NeilW: Did you see the comment I left you a couple of hours ago on that upload?
<xxxxx1> algum ubuntu-dev brasileiro aqui? se tiver favor me chamar em private. obrigado.
<persia> tsmithe: For 5900, you say "The original README is included below", but have patched it.  Do you want to leave that language, or change it?
<NeilW> ScottK: Missed that. Off to look now.
* ScottK makes lunch and ponders, "Is the cheese supposed to be that color or is it moldy".
<lionel> gnomefreak: why did you remove feity-backport task on gnash backport?
<persia> ScottK: cheese is by definition moldy: it's just a question of whether it's good mold :)
<ScottK> lionel: Hello.  Are you interested in another volunteer to help in backports?
<ScottK> persia: Yes, that's the tricky part.
<NeilW> ScottK: I appreciate the concern over licences, but I'm only using the approach taken in 'vim-scripts' which is already in the Debian archive. 
<lionel> ScottK: I'm not an officiel member of anything in backports
<gnomefreak> because they were not saying anything. its normally good to comment if you plan to backport it. i already have it build for feisty in MT repo. if you plan on making it official/unofficial backport please comment on bug 
<lionel> ScottK: I have just seen than backporting take ages these days and I try to help
<lionel> ScottK: all volonteers are welcome
<lionel> gnomefreak: this bug was opened for requesting an official backport
<lionel> gnomefreak: this bug does not concern gnash in gutsy
<lionel> and the mozilla team repository is not official
<gnomefreak> lionel: than i suggest someone atleast comment on it saying this will happen this wont happen ect.. lionel this bug has everything to do with gnash in gutsy since its the only 0.8.0 version in ubuntu
<gnomefreak> lionel: backport repo == unofficial
<lionel> gnomefreak: read my initial comment "please backport"
* gnomefreak stood up and worked on it since backport team wasnt or atleast noone knew they were
<ScottK> lionel: Is there a how-to for confirming backports bugs?
<lionel> ScottK: this is a good starting point https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportRequestProcess
<lionel> I would like to add things
<ScottK> OK.
* ScottK looks
<evand> could someone resync the revu uploaders keyring
<gnomefreak> lionel: if you want them filed under no package please state that in the wiki as it states file bug under package
<persia> evand: Sure.  It takes about 10 minutes.
<gnomefreak> but that is why it was changed. jdong is still notified of changes to bug
<evand> thanks persia 
<persia> ScottK: Just to verify, the latest gutsy source generated this build failure?
<ScottK> Yes.  The 0.4-2ubuntu1
<ScottK> NeilW: Pong.  Commented.
<ScottK> persia: Builds just fine in my Gutsy pbuilder.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks for the version: my first try got 0.3-1 :)
<ScottK> Ah.  It was just synced yesterday and then I just uploaded my first attempt at a fix.
<persia> ScottK: I just want to read the rules file in hopes of understanding why the /etc directory isn't there, and it's easier to grab source than to keep asking you to paste.  I can also try in sbuild, but I suspect it would work just fine.
<ScottK> Right.
<persia> ScottK: You're trying to hard :)  You want `mv policyd-spf.conf $(DEB_DESTDIR)/etc/`  (I think).  Let me try locally before you try another upload.
<gnomefreak> lionel: ok whats the next step in the process. does the bug need a debdiff? or how does it get pushed? none of the links for backporting say that.
<ScottK> lionel: Prevu is just a wrapper for pbuilder, so I don't actually need to use it if I already have pbuilders for the target distros, right?
<ScottK> persia: OK.  That sounds reasonable.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: you shouldnt NEED to use it
<gnomefreak> ScottK: it builds fine in chroot :)
<gnomefreak> do i build it and upload to revu?
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Which it are you referring too?  I'm in the midst of two conversations to which that could be applicable.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: the need for prevu
<ScottK> OK.
<persia> evand: sync complete.  Please upload your package.
<evand> thanks persia 
<ScottK> jdong: Ping.
* persia grumbles about archive speed and new shiny packages
<sacater> gcc needs to be updated into 4.2.0
<sacater> :(
<persia> sacater: Why?  and why is this bad?
<gnomefreak> ScottK: if you find out the end part of backport process can you let me know. example: once confirmed it builds fine, do we add a ubuntu1~7.04 to the end of it or how we would version it and do we upload to revu? if i see jdong ill ask him but i havent seen him an a month or 2
<sacater> because my game needs it to update, or claims to
<sacater> it needds 4.2.0
<sacater> it claims
<sacater> and it isnt availbalbe in repos
<sacater> :(
<gnomefreak> sacater: 4.2 was just accepted
<gnomefreak> yesterday or this monring
<gnomefreak> morning
<sacater> oh cool
<sacater> thanks
<gnomefreak> i saw it in gutsy changes list but it hasnt hit repos or you need to install it yourself
<gnomefreak> i havent figured that part out yet since i dont have a need for it
<gnomefreak> sacater: gcc-4.2 - The GNU C compiler
<gnomefreak> its in repos. just install it and you might have to export it to be used by default
<NeilW> ScottK: Only vim-rails Deb packaging is derived from vim-scripts. The upstream scripts themselves are completely different.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  Replace the mv call with "install -m 644 policyd-spf.conf $(DEB_DESTDIR)/etc/python-policyd-spf/", and it ought to work.
<sacater> gnomefreak: eh, I cant see it in feisty repos
<gnomefreak> sacater: its not and wont be 
<sacater> ?
<ScottK> persia: Thanks.  I'll try that.
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Will do.
<gnomefreak> i wouldnt think it would go into feisty for any reason. its part of tool-chain
<gnomefreak> backporting tool-chain == bad
<ScottK> NeilW: OK.  You need to get a license for the scripts before they can be packaged.
<sacater> 18:32       gnomefreak : its in repos. just install it and you might have to export it to be used by default
<sacater> ?
<gnomefreak> sacater: gutsy
<sacater> ah
<gnomefreak> only place it was ever gonna go
<sacater> im still using feisty :(
<persia> Rather, licensing is required before the scripts can be distributed (the package can be accepted).
<ScottK> sacater: Which is a smart move at this point (still using Feisty).
<ScottK> NeilW: What persia said.
<sacater> gnomefreak: what about if I get my laptop to gutsy, get the .deb from /var/, and then transfer to my main machine
<gnomefreak> sacater: if you make a chroot you might beable to build it for yourself but i would expect problems
<ScottK> sacater: You are in for a world of hurt if you try stuff like that.
<sacater> doh
<persia> sacater: You could compile it in a gutsy chroot, export DISPLAY from the chroot (dchroot is a handy tool for this), and run it from there, if you really want.
* gnomefreak has tried it beofre
<gnomefreak> before
<sacater> oh
<sacater> is OOo fixed yet?
<sacater> for gutsy
<gnomefreak> sacater: yes someone said it was
<sacater> great
<gnomefreak> sacater: hasnt been uploaded yet
<sacater> and apt?
<persia> sacater: Supposedly.  Upload finished 16 minutes ago.
<gnomefreak> apt has been fixed for 2 days
<sacater> oooh
<sacater> so is gutsy stabler now?
<sacater> and safe to install?
<gnomefreak> apt wasnt broke everything needed to e rebuilt on new libapt iirc
<persia> sacater: You definitely want a chroot: you can track the changes there, and test things, to see when it's ready.
<gnomefreak> gutsy safe eh not so much
<sacater> doh
<sacater> i want to beta it on my laptop
<sacater> but I do stuff on there that I wouldnt want to die
<gnomefreak> sacater: if its spare adn reformattible without having to save things go for it
<sacater> gnomefreak: its not
<sacater> does quite a bit of stuff
<gnomefreak> sacater: i have 4 pcs one i use for devel ubuntu if it breaks i have 3 others with feisty on them to fall back on
<ScottK> sacater: Then don't install Gutsy,
<gnomefreak> sacater: yes we have seen breakage (some people having boot issues) << hope your not one of those
<hendrixski> aaarrrrggg... I can't seem to make .debs that actually install!  what do I have to do to debian/rules for programs to install?
<gnomefreak> sacater: make chroot and you will be fine
<gnomefreak> hendrixski: nothing i would hope. you need to install them. depends what the error is in build to what the issue is
<persia> hendrixski: Include an install: rule?  Bascially, you need to populate $(DEB_DESTDIR) with the complete tree you want to be installed by the package.
<persia> hendrixski: CDBS does a lot of this for you (although it's perhaps more difficult to troubleshoot).  You might give it a try if you're having difficulties.
<hendrixski> gnomefreak, :-( well, other than still not having luck signing a dsc... the packages are getting made
<hendrixski> I'm getting a .deb.. but after I run dpkg -i helloworld_0.1-1.deb I can't type helloworld into the command prompt and get it to pup up my program :-(
<gnomefreak> hendrixski:  i ran into that a few times not able to sign dsc :(
<persia> hendrixski: Does your deb install an executable helloworld in /usr/bin?  Use dpkg --contents to check.
<hendrixski> persia, lemme check... 
<mohammad> I used "include /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/ant.mk"  and I set JAVA_HOME := /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj in debian/rules. If build machine does not have java-gcj the following error shows up:
<mohammad> debuild -S -uc
<mohammad> fakeroot debian/rules clean
<mohammad> test -x debian/rules
<mohammad> test "`id -u`" = 0
<mohammad> You must specify a valid JAVA_HOME or JAVACMD! 
<mohammad> make: *** [ant-sanity-check]  Error 1
<mohammad> debuild: fatal error at line 1248:
<mohammad> fakeroot debian/rules clean failed 
<mohammad> I can I resolve it?
<mohammad> would someone please help?
<ScottK> !pastbin | mohammad
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastbin - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<persia> mohammad: Do you have java-gcj in Build-Deps-Indep: ?  If not, it's not safe to force java-gcj.
<ScottK> !pastebin | mohammad
<ubotu> mohammad: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<mohammad> Sorry all, I didn't know 
<ScottK> mohammad: No problem.  Just for next time.
<sacater> thats what the bot is for :P
<hendrixski> persia, I'm not sure what the output means... can I paste-bin it for you?
<persia> hendrixski: Not as such, but if you provide a pastebin URL, I'll take a loog.
<persia> s/g/$/k./
<NeilW> ScottK: Understand the issue now. WILCO.
<ScottK> NeilW: Great.
<hendrixski> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29508/
<ScottK> mok0: Had any luck with the kssh upstream?
<persia> hendrixski: OK.  What don't you understand?
<hendrixski> persia, it's got two entries for /usr/bin/ but I don't see the executable mentioned :-(
<mohammad> persia: Yes I have But still I get that error
<persia> hendrixski: I only see one /usr/bin, but I suspect you've left /usr/bin and /usr/sbin in debian/dirs (you probably don't need them).  Also, the reason you don7t see the executable is because it's not in the package.  Built is locally, or with sbuild --purge=never, or whatever the pbuilder equivalent may be, and investigate the contents of debian/helloworld or debian/tmp (depending on your package construction) to see what might be missing.  I sus
<hendrixski> It's a Qt application, if that makes a difference
<persia> mohammad: Odd.  My apologies that I don't have more explanation.
<ScottK> man-di: Maybe you can help mohammad with his Java package problem.
<mohammad> man-di http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29510/  would you please take a look?
* hendrixski goes to play around with debian/dirs
<ScottK> persia: Uploaded.
* ScottK crosses fingers and toes.
<persia> ScottK: Even if it works, please point me at the buildlog
<ScottK> persia: Will do.  Thanks again.
<hendrixski> persia, ah ha... Ok, so I can safely just delete debian/dirs if I'm not creating new directories? right?
<persia> hendrixski: Right.
<mohammad> I have summerized my control and rules files and also the error message I get at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29510/, I appreciate if anyone exprienced in java and ant takes a look.
<persia> mohammad: You might find using sbuild or pbuilder useful to investigate this type of problem.  Either should automatically install the correct dependencies, and as sbuild is used on the buildds, it should simulate an upload.
<hendrixski> so... I still don't know how to get my package to install an executable in /usr/bin/ 
<persia> hendrixski: Try dh_install and a debian/install file.
<hendrixski> I build the package with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot but no luck when I sudo dpkg -i it
<man-di> mohammad: I'm here now, looking into your paste...
<man-di> mohammad: Build-Depend on java-gcj-compat-dev instead of java-gcj-compat
<man-di> mohammad: this is like JRE vs. JDK
<mohammad> man-di: I have added both of them
<man-di> mohammad: you need only java-gcj-compat-dev (it depends on java-gcj-compat)
<man-di> mohammad: and move debhelper and cdbs to Build-Depends
<tsmithe> i'm sorry; did someone ping me in the last hour or so? my log doesn't appear to be long enough?
<mohammad> man-di: still I get the error
<man-di> mohammad: in general the problem is that the "clean" target of java packages does not work when build depends are not installed
<man-di> like ant
<man-di> mohammad: when you use pbuilder you will not have this problem
<tsmithe> also, how do i remove packages from an archive (eg a PPA)?
<man-di> there is no clean solution for your error except isntalling all build-depends(-indep)
<mohammad> man-di: Yes I know I do not have any problem but scottK gave me this comment: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5960
<persia> tsmithe: I had asked if you wanted to change the wording of "original README" for ubuntustudio-sounds considering the recent patch, but I'm not sure if that was in the last hour.
<mohammad> is it possible for the person who builds my package to install all the build-depends?
<tsmithe> persia, probably, but i didn't see it anyway
<man-di> mohammad, ScottK: thats normal for Java packages and happens when ant is not installed, there is no clean solution with current tools for this problem
<tsmithe> thanks
<tsmithe> persia, how would you word it?
<persia> tsmithe: ping me when you've uploaded (send me email if I'm not here), and I'll upload it.
<hendrixski> you mean... add dh_install to debian/rules
<mohammad> man-di: Is it ok if I put everyting in Builds-Depends and remove Build-Depends-Indep? (is Build-Depends-Indep necessary?)
<hendrixski> or.. ?  I'm really confused.  I can't make heads or tales of any of this, and I've been looking at it for a few weeks now
<persia> tsmithe: That's a harder question.  Perhaps something along the lines of "The following README has been adapted from the README of the Borealis package"?
<hendrixski> I mean, I look at other packages and they have elaborate scripts for the install section of debian rules
<hendrixski> and I have no clue what they do
<tsmithe> persia, yes that's probably better
<man-di> mohammad: just move debhelper and cdbs to Build-Depends and leave the rest in Build-Depends-Indep
<mohammad> man-di: ok thank you :)
<man-di> mohammad: thats the sanest solution for Java packages currently (exception when you build -gcj packages too)
<persia> hendrixski: Personally, I think the easiest way is to use CDBS, but dh_install to debian/rules can also work.  In either case, populate the debian/install file as described in man dh_install to install things not included by the upstream makefile (in this case, perhaps the helloworld executable).
* man-di thinks he should really become MOTU now
<tsmithe> man-di, why aren't you?!
<tsmithe> (i had always assumed you were!)
<man-di> tsmithe: I dont felt the need before
<persia> man-di: Just for REVU comment rights, or something else?
<tsmithe> man-di, hmm i guess that's a good point
<man-di> persia: for uploads and helping people here
<man-di> persia: I think there is really a need to have an active Java MOTU
* ScottK agrees and is certainly not likely to fill that void.
<hendrixski> persia, so the package won't create its own executable throughout any process, or if it does, it won't manage it?
<man-di> persia: most people dont like Java and dont know how the Java efforts work
<persia> man-di: No need to be MOTU to help :)  On the other hand, I'm sure zakame would appreciate help getting the MOTU Java Growers acgive again.
<man-di> persia: I know zakame has created the MOTU Java Growers, but has he done and Java stuff in Ubuntu?
<persia> hendrixski: Depends on the package.  Look at the upstream Makefile to see what's happening.  debian/install allows additional things to be installed without needing a patch to the Makefile.
<man-di> persia: I know zakake as one of my NMs in Debian and afaik he never did something Java related
<man-di> zakame: sorry if that is wrong, that is how I see this as I never saw Java work from you
<hendrixski> persia, but in this case it's my program, a hello world program written with Qt, and when I run make install it actually installs... unlike any .deb's i've been able to make from it so far
* hendrixski cries
<ogra> man-di, migth be that *you* dont feel the need to become a motu ... 
<ogra> ubuntu *does* feel the need ;)
<man-di> ogra: Thanks
<persia> hendrixski: Are you calling $(MAKE) install in the install: rule in debian/rules?
<man-di> ogra: I feel it now too
<ogra> wondeful :)
<man-di> now I need to check how to get the ball rolling
<man-di> hmm, I need sponsors
<persia> man-di: There's a wiki page - see the very bottom of https;//wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for a link.
<hendrixski> persia, yep ... I've played around with a bunch of different configurations for $(MAKE) install.. which makes me wonder if I don't have to cp anything, or change where it is that it installs to?
<man-di> persia: found already, thanks
<persia> hendrixski: Perhaps you need to pass $(DESTDIR)?  It depends on your Makefile.
* man-di is reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<man-di> does someone here would sponsor my MOTU request?
<tsmithe> persia, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5972 please :)
<hendrixski> persia, LOL  I'm trying to put the relevant parts of my makefile onto pastebin for you... but it keeps accusing me of spamming 
<hendrixski> persia, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29519/  
<persia> hendrixski: It's an hour until sunrise for me, so while I can comment, I'm not in the best shape to review a Makefile :)  Perhaps someone else can help?
<hendrixski> persia, oh wow... Ok
<ScottK> man-di: Since you do Java and I just don't, I can't speak to your application from a technical perspective, but would be glad to speak for your community involvement (which is also important).  Feel free to cc me on the mail.
<man-di> ScottK: Thanks
<hendrixski> if anyone can look at why my package isn't capable of installing a program.  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29519/
<man-di> ScottK: I will fix some issues first to sched a better light on me and then write the mail
<hendrixski> basically... I tried setting $(MAKE) DESTDIR=/usr/bin/ install ... and that didn't work either
<ScottK> No rush.  Sounds like a good plan.  Have a nice wiki page that makes you look wonderful too.
<persia> tsmithe: That looks great at first glance.  I'll take another look in the morning, and upload if I don't see anything else (unless, of course, someone else uploaded it first).  Thanks for the quick update.
<tsmithe> ScottK, were there any other comments except helvB10.bdf for usplash-theme-ubuntustudio?
<tsmithe> persia, sounds good :)
<ScottK> tsmithe: I quit looking when I found that.  Double check all your copyright stuff again I'd say.
<tsmithe> k
<hendrixski> ScottK, do you think that maybe you could help me out here?  I can't make a debian package that installs a program to save my life at this point...
<hendrixski>   http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29519/
<ScottK> hendrixski: I'm a Python programmer.  I don't think I'd be a huge help.
<hendrixski> *sigh
<ScottK> I will take a look, but don't get your hopes up.
<hendrixski> some day I want to learn python programming too... I tried writing a hello world in that and packaging it and it was a worse failure than my current c++ fiasco
<ScottK> What I would do is take my .deb file and look inside (Ark for example in Kubuntu will unpack them) and look inside and see what your current rules are producing.
<tsmithe> ScottK, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5974 looks much cleaner
<hendrixski> k
<hendrixski> it creates two tarballs and a debian binary
<hendrixski> empty tarballs I may add
<hendrixski> hhmmm.... and the debian-binary is only 4 bytes... that's not right
<tsmithe> hendrixski, change the variable name DESTDIR to INSTALL_ROOT in debian/rules
<tsmithe> hendrixski, run through what the script does in your mind, and see which variables are used where to do what
<hendrixski> tsmithe, k.. so it'd look like   $(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT=/usr/bin install   ?
<tsmithe> i would give that a go
<tsmithe> (not saying it would work, necessarily)
<hendrixski> when I run it through in my mind... I figured the time when I just removed the variable all together would have worked... just $(MAKE) install.. but that didn't do it either...  k... gonna give this a go
<tsmithe> hendrixski, nah cos dpkg-deb needs to know where the files are installed to to build the deb from, and in most cases this is a subdirectory in debian/
<hendrixski> dpkg-buildpackage gave me this:   mkdir: cannot create directory `/usr/bin/usr': Permission denied
<ScottK> hendrixski: did you -rfakeroot when you called it?
<hendrixski> I did
<vorlon> -rfakeroot doesn't make it possible for non-root users to write files to the live system directories
<ScottK> Than that's a good sign the your mkdir call is trying to install in your real /usr/bin and not in the package.
<vorlon> right
<hendrixski> ah,  so it is a good sign.... I just need more priveledges than just fakeroot
<hendrixski> so sudo dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot?
<vorlon> no, you need to fix your package to not try to install to the system directories
<ScottK> hendrixski: You should be deeply grateful that you did NOT have more priveledges.
<hendrixski> so... $(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT=/usr/bin install  wasn't a good idea after all?
<hendrixski> ScottK, wheh... good thing I run this kind of stuff in a fakeroot
<tsmithe> hendrixski, no!!
<ScottK> More like $(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT=debian/packagename/usr/bin install
<ScottK> Yes.
<tsmithe> i said replace the term DESTDIR with INSTALL_ROOT
<tsmithe> not the whole thing :)
<tsmithe> (sorry if that wasn't clear)
<vorlon> except that the /usr/bin is still wrong
<vorlon> because you don't want /usr/bin/usr
<vorlon> you want /usr
<vorlon> so you probably need $(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT=debian/packagename
<hendrixski> ok... lemme try that
<hendrixski> IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!
* hendrixski goes to run around the room .... BRB
<tsmithe> :)
<hendrixski> soo... why deos dh_make write $(MAKE) DESTDIR=**** install instead of $(MAKE) INSTALL_ROOT=*** install ???
<vorlon> because DESTDIR vs. INSTALL_ROOT is a question of what the upstream build rules require
<vorlon> and DESTDIR is more "standard", being implemented by automake
* minghua wonders if it's necessary to write INSTALL_ROOT=$(CURDIR)/debian/packagename
<hendrixski> so... what kind of conditions would I know ahead of time require INSTALL_ROOT instead of DESTDIR?   are all Qt3 programs install_root then?
<tsmithe> minghua, yes, i would think it would be
<tsmithe> hendrixski, look at the project's makefile if you are unsure
<hendrixski> tsmithe, ahh.. ok... in the makefile my DESTDIR variable is empty... but it calls INSTALLROOT without having defined it
<tsmithe> mm
<hendrixski> Jesus... I would have NEVER figured this out by myslef
<hendrixski> thanks for being here :-)
<tsmithe> :)
<ScottK> keescook: I've started on my plan for world domination <- <- <- straightening out clamav in Dapper.  Details at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Clamav - In the meantime, which clamav-0.88 would be the best to backport until we can get the rdepends dealt with (0.88,4-1ubuntu2.1 from edgy-security or 0.88.7-1ubuntu1 that was in feisty)?
<hendrixski> followup question... in debian/control...should I change  "Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}"  because I just added libqt3-mt  but I dunno if I need those first two?
<man-di> hendrixski: you added libqt3-mt explicitely? your package should adds this automatically through ${shlibs:Depends} if it needs it
<geser> no, ${shlips:Depends} gets filed with the correct Depends at package build time
<ScottK> hendrixski: If you really want to feel bad, do a little research and figure out how old tsmithe is.
<tsmithe> ScottK, haha
<RickH> After installing libgtk2.0-doc where does it go?  And how can I launch it/view it?
<geser> dpkg -L libgtk2.0-doc
<hendrixski> why, how old... or young rather?
<RickH> geser:  Thanks.
<man-di> RickH: dpkg -L libgtk2.0-doc shows you its content
<man-di> geser wins the price for typing faster ;-)
<ScottK> hendrixski: 15 iirc.
<minghua> (or just read libgtk2.0-doc's package description...)
<minghua> Although what RickH is really looking for is probably devhelp.
<hendrixski> 15?  ummm... wow
<RickH> minghua:  I've found very few tutorials written to help someone wanting to begin development under Ubuntu (on apps). :(  I've seen lots of suggested guides, recipes, etc., but nothing about how to setup the tools, setup icons for help, etc.
<tsmithe> hendrixski, yeah :)
<hendrixski> I wish I had gotten started with this stuff when I was young... instead of just wasting my life on windows 
<tsmithe> hehe
<ScottK> tsmithe: debian/copyright looks good.  Doing a test build now.
<RickH> Okay, does devhelp read whatever's in /usr/share/doc/ and then populate the help with what's there?
<tsmithe> hendrixski, if you're much older than me, then there can't have been much windows around during your early youth anyway, surely?
<RickH> Because until I installed libgtk2.0-doc, I was using devhelp, but it didn't have what I needed.
<ScottK> tsmithe: Windows has been around a depressing long time.  I was using it before you were born.
<RickH> I'm used to Windows where all of the help files are separate.
<tsmithe> ScottK, oh yay :s
<hendrixski> tsmithe, I'm only about 8 years older than you ... how long have you been using Linux?
<tsmithe> since 2001
<tsmithe> (i didn't really "get it" back then)
<tsmithe> only really "got it" since 2005
<hendrixski> Nice
<RickH> Is Anjuta a good IDE?
* ScottK will now sound old...
* ScottK prefers vim for an IDE.
<hendrixski> I got my first computer in... let's see... freshman year of high school... so 1997
* hendrixski likes vim as an IDE as well
<RickH> What's vim?
<hendrixski> RickH, it's a command line editor that does EVERYTHING... and it's all like 1 keystroke
<ScottK-laptop> tsmithe: When it builds, is it supposed to tell me stuff like : make[1] : Circular ubuntustudio_1024_576_cropped.png <- ubuntustudio_1024_576_cropped.png.c dependency dropped. pngtousplash ubuntustudio_1024_576_cropped.png > ubuntustudio_1024_576_cropped.png.c
<tsmithe> yes
<RickH> like vi?
<ScottK-laptop> Only better.
<ScottK-laptop> tsmithe: OK.  Thanks.
<hendrixski> RickH, yes... it stands for Vi Improved
<hendrixski> www.vim.org
<RickH> I used to use The SemWare Editor in the old days.  It was a command-line editor.  I like whole IDEs now though.  Visual Studio has spoiled me. :)
<hendrixski> RickH, Eclipse has spoiled me too... but I tried vim in college once and been hooked ever since
<RickH> vim-tiny is no good.  It's almost as bad as DOS's old EDLIN utility. :P
<hendrixski> yep
<RickH> Have you ever used Visual Studio?
<RickH> in Windows?
<hendrixski> anyways... It's almost 4:00 and I need to eat lunch
<hendrixski> RickH, no... I've been a windows programmer for a while... but it was all java
<hendrixski> so I used Eclipse
* hendrixski gets lunch
<broonie> That parses very strangely with 24 hour clock...
<RickH> VS is kind of like NetBeans.  NetBeans does better refactoring, but VS has a lot of abilities NB doesn't.
* RickH needs another monitor now to do development. :)  Everything used to be so tidy in VS.
<minghua> Hmm, tsmithe's website http://tibsplace.co.uk/ gives me a 500 error.
<ScottK> tsmithe: Uploaded.
* RickH needs to eat too.
<tsmithe> minghua, that's cos it's down, until i get hosting
<tsmithe> ScottK, thanks loads
<ScottK> No problem.  Thanks for your contribution and the Ubuntu Studio efforts to get into the archives.
<minghua> tsmithe: I see.  You may want to change your wiki page then. ;-)
<tsmithe> ahh righty
<tsmithe> ScottK, heh :)
<ScottK> tsmithe: Not kidding.
<tsmithe> :)
<RickH> Are the detailed_signal values in GTK+ standard to Linux?  Or are they only used in GTK+?  I can't find them defined anywhere in the GTK+ docs.
<RickH> Things like "destroy", "delete_event", etc?
<vorlon> those are GTK+-level signals
<RickH> Where are they documented?
<RickH> I see only "destroy", "delete_event" and "clicked" in this example.
<vorlon> in the GTK+ docs somewhere :)
<RickH> :)
<ScottK> leonel: If you have a moment, would you please see if you can build/test https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/0.88.7-1ubuntu1 and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/0.88.4-1ubuntu2.1 unmodified on Dapper.  Since this clamav project is going to take a while, I thought it might be useful to go ahead and backport the best 0.88 we can.
<vorlon> the only Linux-level signals are those listed in kill -l, which have nothing to do with GTK+ signals; many of the GTK+ signals map more or less directly to X events, but the X documentation is probably not useful to you in understanding the GTK+ handling
<RickH> Ever see the "Kill -9" video on YouTube? :)
<ScottK> leonel: And then mark up the MOTU/Clamav page with your results.
<leonel> ScottK: funny ...  I'm just  testing  clamav 0.91  in dapper  this by upgrading the package from your site   builded fine  and installed  ...
<leonel> ScottK: I'll let you know about  88.6 and 4
<ScottK> OK.  That'd be good to know about too.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ScottK> leonel: I'm on the ubuntu-backporters team now, so I can approve stuff (archive admins still have to upload them).
<vorlon> RickH: yes, and I also know what 'fs sa rlidwka' means
<ScottK> I approved your clamassassin request a little while ago.
<leonel> ScottK:  great !
<RickH> vorlon:  I don't know what that means.  What does it mean?
<vorlon> it's an AFS acl command
<leonel> ScottK:  I'd like psycopg2  backported to dapper :)
<ScottK> Is there a dapper-backports bug for it?
<leonel> ScottK: I haven't been able to backport it myself 
<leonel> ScottK:  I asked  some time ago 
<RickH> I don't see any reference....  So, I'm wondering how text-based signals can be used.
<ScottK> leonel: What happened when you tried to build it?
<leonel> needs  python central  and other packages
<ScottK> In that case I think you are out of luck
<leonel> ScottK:  bug #115269
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115269 in Ubuntu "[backport]  python-psycopg2 From Feisty to Dapper" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115269
<RickH> Does GCC use .cc files for C++?
<RickH> Or G++?  I'm confused...
<ScottK> leonel: What I'd suggest you do is get 1.1.21-14 from Debian Stable (Etch) and see if you can build that.
<man-di> RickH: g++ supports .C .cc .cpp and some other suffixes for C++
<vorlon> RickH: I believe gcc will autodetect g++ as the language if the extension is .cc (at least it did in the past)
<RickH> Is .cc the same as .cpp?
<vorlon> eh, autodetect C++ as the language and use g++
<ScottK> If that works, you can probably swap out the newest upstream like you just did for clamav.
<man-di> RickH: yes
<leonel> ScottK:  I need psycopg2. start from 1.1.21 from debian ?
<RickH> okay
<RickH> And class definitions are still in .h/.cpp or .h/.cc format?
<leonel> ScottK:  clamav  91  + clamsmtp   in dapper  WORKS !
<RickH> by convention I mean?
<ScottK> Cool.  I'd expect it would.
<man-di> RickH: .h .hpp .H, whatever you like
<RickH> man-di:  Thanks.
<minghua> vorlon: I remember it doesn't work for linking, so it's still necessary to use the correct compiler name.
<vorlon> minghua: yes, that's true
<ScottK> leonel: Sorry, 2.0.5.1-6.
<leonel> great 
<gnomefreak> is it just me or did sound die in gutsy in the last day or 2
<ScottK> leonel: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/psycopg2/
<ScottK> That'll probably work.
<leonel> ScottK:  thanks  I'll try 
<ScottK> gnomefreak: They rolled a new kernel last night.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: ah yes i say the l-r-m and freinds
<gnomefreak> waiting on kernel :)
<gnomefreak> ty i forgot
<xxxxx1> ScottK, can you take a look at bug #103482 please
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 103482 in r-cran-psy "[can-not-install]  postrm failure" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/103482
<xxxxx1> ScottK, i commited the debdiff. it should be fixed on gutsy and not in dapper.
<RickH> Is there a way to modify the Linux keyboard settings so that Shift+NumPad will use the arrows, rather than numbers?
<ScottK> xxxxx1: The bug says fix released.  Is that wrong.
<xxxxx1> ScottK, exactly.
<xxxxx1> we should cancel dapper task
<xxxxx1> and apply commited
<ScottK> Why don't you get the bug status straight and then I'll look.
<xxxxx1> ScottK, done :)
* ScottK looks again.
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Is Dapper Invalid or Wontfix and why are you assigned it if it's Invalid/Wontfix?
<xxxxx1> take a look at the comments
<xxxxx1> long investigation
<xxxxx1> :P
<xxxxx1> i'll change edgy task too.
<ScottK> OK.  Do the investigation then...
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Looking.
<xxxxx1> thanks
<RickH> how can you view a binary file in hex?
<xxxxx1> RickH, you can use ghex
<RickH> thanks
<RickH> xxxxx1:  from the cmd line?
<RickH> I see it.. under applications -> hex editor.
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Since we have 2.4 in Feisty already, what is changing the depends going to affect?
<xxxxx1> RickH, yes :)
<RickH> Some stuff about Linux is just not intuitive to a Windows guy. :)
<ScottK> xxxxx1: ??
<xxxxx1> ScottK, this bug is just for dapper and edgy upgrades to Gutsy
<xxxxx1> and.. for Feisty too.. but this bug not qualifies for SRU
<xxxxx1> (have a workaround)
<xxxxx1> so, this fix upgrades from dapper/edgy->gutsy 
<ScottK> So you are making sure this package won't get installed until the other one is alread upgraded?
<xxxxx1> yes. as you see in the another commentaries.. this fail.
<ScottK> You mean last Fall?
<xxxxx1> you can see in the bug description and my reconstruction of the bug on the commentaries
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Also, it's not (Closes LP:, it's (LP:.
<xxxxx1> we have a lot of changelog with Closes LP
<xxxxx1> including from core-dev
<xxxxx1> btw, i can change. i've used both
<xxxxx1> :)
<ScottK> xxxxx1: It's still wrong.  (Closes: is the Debian way and when LP was being set up to close bugs there was confusion about what was correct.
<ScottK> I'll change this one.
<xxxxx1> thanks ScottK
<tsmithe> ScottK, i thought that as long as it contained "LP: nnnnn" it was ok
* minghua agrees with tsmithe.
<ScottK> tsmithe: I haven't experimented if where the parens are really matters.  They said (LP: #bugnumber) so I just do it that way.
<tsmithe> well makes sense
<tsmithe> but i just recall hearing it somewhere :)
* ScottK is uploading the package, so gets to be pedantic if that's his preference.
<tsmithe> heh true
<xxxxx1> :D
<minghua> According to the mail to -devel-announce (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2007-May/000298.html), it's only the pattern "LP: #nnnnnn", the parentheses are not mandated.
<ScottK> minghua: OK.  Thanks.  Good to know.
* ScottK notes OOO is building again.
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution.
<xxxxx1> it was a pleasure
<xxxxx1> :D
<xxxxx1> thanks ScottK and minghua 
<xxxxx1> i gotta go now
<xxxxx1> bye all
<minghua> xxxxx1: You did most of the hard work, thank you. :-)
<minghua> and bye.
<ScottK> stratus: I'm doing a test build of python-gdata now before I request a sync.
<PriceChild> I remember a great little bit on the wiki with example get-orig-source bits for creating tarballs from svn etc. but am having difficulty finding it... does anyone know where? :)
<ScottK> PriceChild: No, but it's been mentioned here in the last day or so.  I'd ask persia when he reappears or look through the channel logs.
<PriceChild> I remember him referring me to it... I'll slog through my logs :)
<PriceChild> Thanks
<minghua> ScottK: The r-cran-psy upload forgot to change the Maintainer field as required.
* ScottK noticed and was wondering if I should upload another one or not.  Thoughts?
* ScottK prepares another upload as penance.
<ajmitch> ScottK: you could fix coreutils
<ScottK> What's it written in?
<ajmitch> C
<ScottK> Ironically enough, earlier today I remembered to mangle the maintainer on a package that I'm the Debian Maintainer for...
<ScottK> Ah.  Then No, I couldn't fix coreutils.
<ajmitch> coreutils failed to build for me yesterday, and I needed it
<ScottK> Yummy.
<ajmitch> yeah, libc6-dev header problems
* ajmitch was trying to get the openmoko environment to build, which uses an older coreutils
<ajmitch> but the current gutsy one fails as well
<ScottK> Well my penance is uploaded.  Time to go play Dad.
<ajmitch> heh
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<ScottK> If persia shows up while I'm gone, would some one please tell him from me "It worked.  Thanks."
<norsetto> TheMuso: Hi, and thx for your comments on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5978
<TheMuso> norsetto: No problem.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-07-12
<TheMuso> Gotta love it when a build fails because a command segfaults.
<TheMuso> On an architecture that hardly anyone is likely to h ave.
<TheMuso> have
<geser> ScottK: set DEBEMAIL to your Ubuntu mail address and dpkg-source won't build a source package with an unchanged maintainer
<ScottK> geser: And then I couldn't sign the package because that address isn't on my key.
* ScottK builds stuff for both Ubuntu and Debian, so I'd rather actually avoid that.
<geser> than add it to your key :)
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<geser> TheMuso: the gs segfaults on IA64?
<TheMuso> geser: the ps2pdf command seems to actually for ecasound2.2, which I synced from Debian.
<TheMuso> So the package builds, yet the docs fail because of that command segfaulting.
<geser> I've seen it for one of my syncs too
<TheMuso> ah ok
<vorlon> that gs bug is since fixed in Debian
<geser> cool
<TheMuso> gs? What package is that?
<TheMuso> its one of the tex ones isn't it?
<geser> !info ghostscript gutsy
<ubotu> ghostscript: The GPL Ghostscript PostScript/PDF interpreter. In component main, is optional. Version 8.60.dfsg.4-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 696 kB, installed size 3248 kB
<geser> TheMuso: that one
<TheMuso> ah
<Nafallo> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<ajmitch> 454 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 3 to remove and 38 not upgraded.
<ajmitch> Need to get 407MB of archives. After unpacking 15.6MB will be freed.
<ajmitch> something tells me that I've been lazy in updating
<leonel> ajmitch: and we are not using 14400kbps  modems ...
<leonel> plop
<leonel> 14400bps
<ajmitch> it feels like it here at times
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<nixternal> how much hard drive would I need to create a mirror at home for main/restricted/universe/multiverse?
<StevenK> nixternal: For which releases?
<StevenK> nixternal: And which arches?
<nixternal> gutsy at a minimum x86
<ajmitch> source?
<StevenK> nixternal: ~ 12Gb, with no source
* ajmitch only has a mirror of main for amd64 & i386, no source
<nixternal> well I would like to have source as well at least for main and universe
* StevenK has a mirror of main, restricted, universe and multiverse for amd64 and i386 with feisty and gutsy, and no source.
<nixternal> StevenK: that is about 24gb then?
<StevenK> Actually, it's about ~ 52
<nixternal> I had a plan of why I wanted to do that, but I can't remember now :)
* ajmitch can't afford to download that much
<nixternal> I would download the majority during class to an external USB drive and then just rsync that drive at home
<StevenK> My plan gives me free downloads between midnight and midday.
<ajmitch> that's useful
<ajmitch> I suppose I should fix coreutils now that I found a patch for it
* ajmitch will be back later
<ScottK> leonel: If you have a moment, would you please see if you can build/test https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/0.88.7-1ubuntu1 and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/0.88.4-1ubuntu2.1 unmodified on Dapper.  Since this clamav project is going to take a while, I thought it might be useful to go ahead and backport the best 0.88 we can.
<ScottK> Oops.  Sorry about that leonel
<leonel> ScottK: :)
<calc> ScottK: what was the clamav question?
<leonel> everyday I found new  things and packages in lauchpad   it's  HUGE !
<RickH> Anyone feel like helping me with something related to GDK+ 2.0?
<joejaxx> nice i just prevented a ubuntu delta in fluxbox
<RickH> I'm wondering why I can't pass class::function as a G_CALLBACK()?
<RickH> like G_CALLBACK(whatever::foo) where "whatever" is a valid class and "foo" is a valid member function.
<RickH> Ah!  It has to be declared static in the class.  Got it. :)
<TheMuso> Morning RAOF.
<RAOF> Morning TheMuso 
<leonel> ScottK: Done  
<leonel> 88.7 failed    88.4 no problems  all builded  and tested with  clamsmtp  and  clamassassin
<persia> ScottK: Great.  Glad to hear it.
* Fujitsu wonders why he just saw `-D__LIBTOOL_IS_A_FOOL__' flying past while building quantlib
<TheMuso> lol
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It tells libtool to not make "smart" decisions.
<persia> Frustratingly, it appears that gutsy lintian has decided to tell me "bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy".
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Really?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I think so.
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<StevenK> Ah, I know what it does. If Libtool is a fool, it doesn't add rpath's to binaries.
<Fujitsu> Ahh.
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> ugh
<RAOF> :D
<persia> TheMuso: If you have a minute, would you mind looking at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5975 (ubuntustudio-screensaver)?  I think it's ready for upload :)
<TheMuso> persia: Just saw that, will do.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.
<TheMuso> persia: Maybe we should run this GPL with SA by some archive admins, to be sure.
<TheMuso> I'd rather not upload and have it rejected because of that.
<TheMuso> As it reflects badly on us.
<persia> TheMuso: About 8 hours ago, tsmithe told me that he had such a discussion, and received specific approval.  Let me see if the followup update the the wiki has happened yet...
<TheMuso> persia: Ok.
<persia> TheMuso: Doesn't appear official yet.  Depends on how much you trust hearsay :)
<TheMuso> Right.
<ScottK> persia: The successful build log is http://launchpadlibrarian.net/8417088/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.pypolicyd-spf_0.4-2ubuntu2_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz - Thanks again.
<persia> ScottK: I was looking at that about an hour ago, and it suddenly occurred to me that using debian/install might have been a cleaner solution - probably not worth an upload though :)
<TheMuso> So... Where do we go from here re sconz and FTBFS?
<persia> TheMuso: We can either wait until the upstream bug is fixed, or modify the scons scripts to not actually rely on the exported environment (or better, not export the environment).
<ScottK> leonel: keescook recommends we try for 0.88.7, so we should try and make it work (It's probably the same debian/control changes needed for 0.9x).
<TheMuso> persia: Right.
<TheMuso> I guess it depends on how quickly upstream are likely to fix it.
<ScottK> persia: There's always the next upstream.  I'm interested in your suggestion.
<persia> ScottK: Read the dh_install manpage for details, but my memory is that the debian/install file is parsed, with each line as a whitespace delimited list, and it calls `install -m 644 $1 $(DEB_DESTDIR)/$2` for each entry.
<persia> (or debian/$binarypackage.install if appropriate)
<ScottK> persia: OK.  I'll have a look.  Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: The advantage here being that with a well drafted dirs and install file, you may be able to avoid a custom rule in some cases.
<ScottK> Makes sense.
<TheMuso> persia: Just uploaded -screensaver.
<persia> TheMuso: Excellent.  I'm just waiting to hear back from tsmithe regarding the sounds README, and we should have the whole set.
<TheMuso> persia: Right, then I just have to do -default-settings, which I am still mulling over, because of a few hacks it has in it. UbuntuStudio needs these hacks, but I don't know how we should take care of one of them, and the other had a clean alternative written up in a spec for sevilla, which didn't get looked at.
<persia> TheMuso: Oh right.  Do you have a pointer to the spec?
<TheMuso> persia: Just a sec.
<TheMuso> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivCustomSoundThemes
<ryanakca> Umm, CDBS question. I need to gzip -9 the manpages because upstream hasn't. `GZIP="-9 --name"; export GZIP` would do it in a shell (at least I think it will, according to "Environment" in gzip(1)). How would I do so in CDBS
<ryanakca> ?
<TheMuso> ryanakca: debhelper/dh_installman does that afaik.
<TheMuso> Or dh_compress, can't remember which.
<TheMuso> cdbs/debhelper handles that.
<ryanakca> #debian-mentors has proposed `GZIP="-9 --name" $(MAKE) build` for debhelper
<persia> ryanakca: Try it without that.  If it doesn't work, try it with that.  When you get a package you like, smile.
<ryanakca> TheMuso: hmmm. Well, what happens is that 'make' extracts two manpages from aoeui.m4, using m4. Then it installs those manpages to the required directory. will dh_compress still work?
<ryanakca> persia: without the GZIP line, I get: http://pastebin.ca/613197
<persia> TheMuso: That makes sense to me, but the translations are a sticky bit: the person who would be most likely to make the corresponding changes to the gnome package is very sensitive to changes that cause translations not to be perfect.
<TheMuso> persia: Yeah I know.
<ryanakca> persia: with it, I get the same thing
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Most packages in the archive simply install manpages. I don't believe they gzip them as well.
<persia> TheMuso: everything not already gzipped gets gzipped during package build.  This is an odd and annoying case.
<ryanakca> TheMuso: according to policy, they need to be gzipped.
<Fujitsu> There isn't a single one on my system that isn't, and it's required by policy.
<TheMuso> ryanakca: For the built package, yes, and they get gzipped when the package is built.
<persia> ryanakca: You could brute-force it by patching the upstream makefile to not gzip, and leaving that to debhelper.  Other solutions are so heavily dependent on the upstream build system that a patch is probably easier than finding the right magic variable.
<TheMuso> dh_compress says it compresses man pages.
<ryanakca> TheMuso: yes, but, in this case, it's not dh_compress that's installing the manpage, it's the Makefile and make
<hendrixski> is there a faster way to make a patch than dpatch-edit-patch if I've already made (and tested) the changes that I want to include in a patch?
<jamman> hey all.
<TheMuso> ryanakca: Right.
<jamman> so is there any way i can contribute with web servering?
<ryanakca> persia: hmm. the upstream makefile doesn't gzip already, wait. could I have debhelper install the manpage if it's already located in debian/aoeui/usr/share/man/man1/ ?
<TheMuso> I know dh_compress doesn't install anything. I was getting confused, I thought you needed to gzip them, whereas you want to preven the makefile from doing it
<ryanakca> persia: and as such, it would compress it?
<persia> hendrixski: Depends on the patch system.  With dpatch, you'd want to extract the changes (with diff -urN) into a patch, start dpatch-edit-patch to get the patch environment, apply your custom patch, and exit to quickly generate the dpatch.
<ryanakca> TheMuso: makefile installs them uncompressed. maybe I'm communicating properly... shall I get you a link for you to examine?
<hendrixski> persia, ah... so I don't have to manually redo the changes in dpatch-edit-patch.. I can just run a diff command that would apply them?
<persia> ryanakca: I would think that an uncompressed manpage in $(DEB_DESTDIR)/use/share/man/man1 would be compressed by dh_compress automatically.  If this doesn't work, you could delete it in build, and use debian/$package.manpages, but this probably isn't preferred.
* hendrixski seriously has to learn basic unix command like diff
<persia> hendrixski: You'll want `patch` to apply the output of `diff`, but basically, yes.
<ryanakca> persia: $package.manpage ? Where does that come from? hmm. I could also just have rules run gzip on them...
<ryanakca> but wouldn't that mean that I'd have to stick gzip in build-depends?
<persia> ryanakca: debian/$package.manpages may be created by a maintainer to automatically install and compress manpages that are not installed by the upstream build system.
<ryanakca> persia: ah. well, upstream installs them, just uncompressed.
* ryanakca scratches his head
<hendrixski> persia, 'cause I got really confused with that patch environment I was like "oh man.. I gotta redo all this stuff."   LOL
<persia> ryanakca: I'm fairly sure gzip is build-essential, so you shouldn't have to worry (how else could the buildd tar xzf or uncompress diff.gz)?
<ryanakca> persia: yeah, ok
<ryanakca> persia: thanks :)
<persia> ryanakca: Upstream is installing them uncompressed?  Does dh_compress not fix this?
<ryanakca> persia: apparently not
<minghua> ryanakca: What exactly is your question?  Is there anything dh_compress failing to do?
<ryanakca> persia: or wait, upstream is installing them compressed, but not compressed to the maximum level
<ryanakca> minghua: ok. lintian -i on the deb outputs this: http://pastebin.ca/615335
<persia> ryanakca: That's what I thought: it makes more sense given your error, and explains why it's not recompressed.  Either hunt down the magic variable for the upstream Makefile, patch the upstream Makefile, or delete in debian/rules and install with debian/$package.manpages.
<minghua> Hmm.  I didn't know policy requires maximum compression level.
<Fujitsu> minghua: Any objections to syncing the various bits of geda 20070626? We've had a couple of requests, AFAIK.
<minghua> Outdated policy and should be abandoned, IMHO.
<ryanakca> minghua: I wrote this patch to fix it, but Debian says it's too dirty and that I should somehow find a magic variable threw trial and error: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/aoeui-0707111425/aoeui-1.0.3/debian/patches/01-gzip-manpages.patch
<persia> minghua: Current policy prefers preservation of bandwidth to preservation of user CPU.
<ryanakca> s/Debian/sponsor in #debian-mentors/g
<minghua> Fujitsu: I know nothing about geda.  So I supposed no objections.
<Fujitsu> Great, just checking.
* Fujitsu wonders why it has to be split into 10 source packages.
<hendrixski> persia, I just re-read the parts of the manual that were confusing me and it suddenly makes sense.... thanks :-)
<ryanakca> persia: where would I put the magic variable in a CDBS rules?
<hendrixski> your explanation was like the missing key
<minghua> Fujitsu: To pump your karma number, perhaps? ;-)
<persia> ryanakca: That's an interesting question.  Hold on whilst I look at your rules and upstream Makefile...
<ryanakca> persia: thanks
<persia> Well, that's ugly.  The manpages aren't actually created until make install is called.
<ryanakca> persia: hehe :)
<persia> ryanakca: IF you're doing this with a shell variable, you'll want to export it in build/aoeui::, but that's somewhat counterintuitive to a reader.
<ryanakca> persia: upstream said they'd fix it in next release
<ryanakca> persia: but... he said he'd only release it when he gets back from his holidays/vacation
<TheMuso> wow. New packages aren't announced to gutsy changes.
<persia> ryanakca: How are they fixing it?  gzip -9, the use of $(GZIP) instead of gzip (so you can pass an override), or installing the bare manpages, and expecting it to be addressed by the packaging?
<ryanakca> persia: no clue, never asked
<persia> TheMuso: That sounds like a bug.
<persia> ryanakca: It's worth checking.  Perhaps you can pull their fix from upstream, use a patch, and report that the patch was pulled from upstream in the changelog: that might be dirty for now, but shows it will be much cleaner soon.
<ryanakca> persia: yeah
<ryanakca> hmm.
<ryanakca> persia: He's already fixed it in SVN http://aoeui.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/aoeui/Makefile?view=markup
<persia> ryanakca: I still think that's not what make install is supposed to mean, but it looks like your patch was applied.  Check with your sponsor to see if a patch "pulled from SVN" is an acceptably clean solution to the issue.
<ryanakca> persia: hmm. since the patch is identical to the one created when comparing upstream to current, except for the version line, *nod*
* ryanakca asks
<ryanakca> persia: 22:31:11 < pabs> ryanakca: I'd say use GZIP until that version is released and then drop GZIP 
* ryanakca grumbles
<Pici> Quick question, I'm filling out a bug report for something and I want to suggest that the package install prompt the user to reboot, is there a technical name for that?
<ScottK> Pici: WIndows
<ScottK> Why is a reboot needed?
<Pici> ScottK: :p
<persia> ryanakca: Well then, you'll want to put it in build/aoeui::.  Expect to explain how the upstream makefile is broken, so it really is correct to define the shell variable post-build / pre-install rather than pre-build.
<Pici> ScottK: need udev to assign a group to /dev/fuse
<persia> Pici: Can't you do that in the postinst?
<Pici> persia: I would assume so. Correct me if I'm wrong (
<TheMuso> Hobbsee:!!!
<Hobbsee> hey TheMuso!
<Pici> er, darn enter key, but i'm not a udev guru, is a reboot required for a udev rule to be put into effect?
<persia> Pici: Right.  So instead of rebooting, just make the necessary calls to udev, and don't bother the user.
<Pici> persia: good point, Its just a confirmation that the fixed worked anyway, I was going to make the suggestion, but I guess it isnt needed.
<minghua> Pici: If the package doesn't assign a group to /dev/fuse (not that I really know what it means) until a reboot, report a bug saying so.  You don't need to have a suggestion fix to report a bug.
<persia> minghua: It's more that dh_installudev doesn't automatically reinitialise already connected devices.  It works great for USB, but is a little more complicated for other things...
<Pici> I'm not pretending to know how it works. Anyway, is there a technical name for the reboot suggestion that comes up when, for example, a new kernel is installed?
<Fujitsu> I think it just touches some file in /var
* Fujitsu checks.
<persia> Pici: Yes, but you don't want to ask for a reboot (like the kernel and libc6 do): there's really no need for a udev rule modification.
<ScottK> Pici: You're on the wrong track here.  Just report the problem about the udev group.
<Fujitsu> my $notifier          = "/usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required";
<Pici> ...  I know, I'm not going to mention the reboot thing.   for the sake of my own curiousity..
<persia> Pici: Fujitsu's answer should satisfy your curiosity
<Fujitsu> Running that as root touches /var/run/reboot-required, which update-notifier picks up.
<Pici> Fujitsu: Ah, thanks :)
* ScottK envisions mean things that could be done with that piece of information.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Like?
<minghua> Well, /var/run is 644, so you need root to touch things in it anyway.
<ScottK> If there's one user you don't like you can wire pretty much anything they want to do to require a reboot.
<Fujitsu> Hah.
<ScottK> Right, I'm thinking from a BOFH perspective.
<Pici> And prompting the user to reboot is pretty lame compared to the other things you could maliciously do as root.
<Pici> Ah.
<ScottK> Yes, but the annoyance factor is high.
<persia> ScottK: Wouldn't it just be better to give them a special shell with `sleep 120 &&` prepended to all command executions?
<ScottK> Plus you can say, "Well let me log on and try it ...  See, works fine for me."
<ScottK> Not random enough.
<ScottK> Want to save that file, sorry, need to reboot first.
<persia> ScottK: the file is only a suggestion.  I've gone up to 4 days ignoring it before I lost stability :)
<ScottK> Sure, but the likely victims wouldn't necessarily know that.
<ScottK> Plus that gives you a good finally...
* Fujitsu 's head spins:
<Fujitsu> Testing exact repricing of multi-step constant maturity swaps and swaptions in a lognormal constant maturity swap market model...
<ScottK> "you actually rebooted before saving, how did you think that was going to work, the reboot thing is only a suggestion anyway, you $CURSEWORD."
<ajmitch> yay, dbs
<Fujitsu> That is one of quantlib's self-tests, supposedly.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Where? Let me kill it.
<persia> ajmitch: The djangoified missing-bugs list looks great.  Should I be targeting that server, or is it moving soon?
<ajmitch> persia: it'll move, that's my home box
<persia> ajmitch: Ah.  In that case, I'll not clog your DB :)
* Fujitsu thinks we need an unmetdeps list like that.
<Fujitsu> How hard would it be to hack a comments field into debcheck?
<persia> Fujitsu: Does the combination of filed in-progress bugs and apt-cache -i unmet not meet your needs?
<Fujitsu> persia: That doesn't do multiple archs.
<persia> Fujitsu: True, but I suspect it's a rare case (excepting FTBFS) where an unmet dep only applies to a subset of the architectures.  Most of those are probably related to an NBS somewhere.
<Fujitsu> http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck/ begs to differ
<Perdente> ok so this is probably the most noob thing to say, but where would I start if I wanted to work on a gtk or kde app or add some code to one or code for anything for that matter
<Perdente> I mean I have the libraries and have tinkered with gtk and kde and know kind ahow they work right now, just don't know what project to work on/with
<RAOF> You could come and join NotiFrenzy/Specto/VCSFrenzy :)
<ScottK> Perdente: You could pick a bug that annoys you and try to fix it.
<Perdente> lol RAOF sometimes you scare me
<RAOF> Generally the way this works is that you find something that you want to work but doesnt
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm having trouble actually seeing enough architecture-specific information from that to tell, but I suspect some of the differing numbers can be accounted for by differing build architectures for packages.
<Perdente> ok and then look at the source code and tinker away
<Perdente> duh... also I do really want to work on a dreamweaver equivalent for Ubuntu
<RAOF> Yup.  Launchpad is always available for inspiration
<Perdente> I was gonna call it webuntu or something lame like that
<RAOF> Perdente: So, find an already existing project with similar goals, and fix things.
<persia> Perdente: There are a number of web authoring tools already included: I'd recommend improving one of those rather than starting from scratch for a first project.
<ScottK> Wasn't tonyyarusso working on packaging the son of the son of Nvu?
<RAOF> Yes
<hendrixski> if you're adding a graphic to a program... is it a good idea to put that in a patch?  or would that the patch just too big?
<ajmitch> persia: it's quite common for unmet deps to be !i386, sadly
<persia> ajmitch: Interesting.  Is this because of arch-indep skew?
<ajmitch> often
<ajmitch> or something just never builds on amd64, like psyco
<persia> hendrixski: For a new graphic, it's often easier to include  uuencoded version in debian/ and uudecode & install manually during the install: rule.
* hendrixski goes to google uuencode
<persia> ajmitch: Lately the debian-release team seems to have been chasing those and NMU'ing architecture restrictions (not that we have a working automated binary remove system for universe).
* ajmitch shoudl file an RC bug in debian along with a patch
<ajmitch> coreutils ought to fail to build there as well
<persia> Umm...  I like coreutils.  Please don't make it i386 only :)
<ajmitch> persia: it fails to build on all platforms at the moment
<ajmitch> just testing a patch now
<persia> ajmitch: Ah.  That's better then.  Good luck.
* hendrixski is intimidated by uuencode
<ajmitch> patch is from upstream, just a simple function renaming
<ScottK> persia: So how to we get rid on old binaries in Universe?
* ScottK wonders about pinentry-gtk.
<persia> hendrixski: See the flobopuyo package for an example
<ScottK> Nevermind.  It remove itself according to LP.
* hendrixski checks out flobopasdfjiowjneofrin or whatever :-p
<persia> ScottK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/32460 is a good example of the process (it takes a while)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 32460 in supercollider "Please remove stale AMD64 supercollider binaries." [Medium,Fix released]  
* ScottK looks
<persia> ScottK: There's automated removal for NBS binaries, as long as they are removed from all architectures.  For packages that are changed to build on only certain architectures, we accumulate cruft.
<ScottK> Ah.  I see.
<persia> ScottK: To sum up, I believe the process is 1) file a bug, 2) get someone to harass an admin in person (IRC doesn't seem to work)
<Fujitsu> Surely they can generate lists of arch-NBSed cruft for us?
* hendrixski is going to call it a night... and will research flobopuyo tomorrow :-)
<persia> Fujitsu: Sure, and code to check is in Debian.  It's implemented for main, and I've been told it's on the TODO for Universe, but it's not a high priority at this point.
<Fujitsu> Lovely.
<persia> More amusingly, some of the archive-admins are under the impression that it is handled by the auto-checking script for main, and so tend to ignore the binary removal bugs.
<Hobbsee> useful
<StevenK> NBS is semi-automatic, like importing from Debian.
<persia> StevenK: NBS, yes.  arch-NBS?
* ScottK mumbles something about if only the toolchain were more open maybe the community would stand up and take care of it.
<ScottK> And then sits back down.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: pressure them to open it - ask what you can do.
<Hobbsee> if you really want to
* Fujitsu quietly agrees with ScottK.
<persia> ScottK: There's nothing stopping you from running an analysis against a mirror of the archive :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Where does Debian keep its version?
<Hobbsee> but, i certainly cant speak on the matter, in current status.
<persia> Fujitsu: I think it's somewhere deep in dak, but I'm not sure.  I do know that arch-NBS removals are auto-generated.  Let me see if I can find a little more detail...
<ScottK> persia: True, but the most that could help me do is write bugs.
<ajmitch> yay, coreutils built
<ScottK> Yeah!
<ajmitch> now I can run off & apply the patch elsewhere to get back to what I was doing
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah, right, that'd make sense.
<persia> ScottK: That's fine.  One of these days, with a big enough list, we can probably get an archive-admin to do some cleanup before release.
* ScottK would be interested to know packages that build in Debian, but FTBFS in Ubuntu having been burned on that today.
<persia> Fujitsu: It appears to be something in melanie, from a quick look.
<Fujitsu> I really think they should have given the dak binaries slightly better names.
<StevenK> There's now a dak script that deals with that.
<StevenK> 'dak ls' <-> 'madison', etc
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<persia> Fujitsu: I'm wrong.  melanie does the removal work: I think rene might give her advice.  Anyway, you'll probably get more information digging directly...
<ScottK> But he'll probably get it with less effort if you dig.
* Fujitsu waits for dak to install in a chroot.
<Fujitsu> Thanks persia.
<persia> ScottK: Not for a reimplementation, or modifications for Ubuntu.  Pointers are helpful, but I'm getting to the point where I need to follow code points to determine who is responsible, which knowledge is difficult to transfer over IRC.
<ScottK> Yes, but my response was funnier than yours ;-)
<persia> ScottK: True.
<leonel> ScottK: edited  debian/control  for  clamav 88.7   builded  installed tested  all ok 
<Fujitsu> It looks like do_anais in rene is what does the arch-NBS stuff, but it's very dak-specific.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  On the other hand, you could mirror the archive into incoming/ and pass it to jennifer :)
<Fujitsu> I don't think it'd like the lack of .changes much.
<ScottK> leonel: OK.  Hang onto that one.  I have to find out how I can do a source package backport.
<ScottK> Thanks.
<persia> Fujitsu: dpkg-genchanges?  Automating it might only catch the latest changelog entry, but it would at least allow processing.
<Fujitsu> persia: Or we could just convince Canonical to run it over universe or release the code.
<ScottK> leonel: Don't remove  source:Version, you have to edit it.  Look at the changes for my 0,90.3 dapper package.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  The first is probably easier.  I'll look to see who need a patch again (I've forgotten).
<Fujitsu> We should probably process Debian removals regularly for a while longer too.
<ScottK> leonel: Once you do that, please make a debdiff and either post it somewhere or e-mail it to me.
<Fujitsu> persia: Do they actually use the bits of dak to do it?
<persia> Fujitsu: Some, and a few of our own (Anastacia, Bridget, Geri, Kari, Heather, Hilarie, Lorraine, Poppy, and Teri).
<Fujitsu> Where're you getting this information?
<persia> Fujitsu: dak docs (mostly).
<Fujitsu> persia: I don't think the Ubuntu-specific stuff would be there...
<persia> Fujitsu: The stuff that's there is to avoid namespace collisions (many of the same parties are involved with both infrastructures).
<persia> Fujitsu: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/gutsy_probs.html might be helpful.  I remember seeing a more useful URL pasted to #ubuntu-devel once, but I've lost it.
<TheMuso> Ouch. OpenOffice update.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: You mean it built!?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: FOr feisty
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<ajmitch> people still run feisty?
<TheMuso> Yes, they do.
<TheMuso> I kinda have to atm, until I am ready to start using GNOME/Gnome-terminal more.
<persia> Fujitsu: You might also ask someone what running archive-cruft-check without -n does (that's outside of what I can find).  I suspect this is the guilty script.
<Fujitsu> persia: How do you know it is run with -n? I can't find any documentation on this stuff.
<persia> Fujitsu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration is my source for -n.  For further information, I suggest full text searches of the wiki, and searches of the IRC logs from #ubuntu-devel (especially in the early days) and #ubuntu-meeting.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> It's all very well collected and easy to find, I see.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: OO.o built for Gutsy, too.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Even on i386?
<persia> Fujitsu: There used to be more, but the canonical wiki split made it a little harder to find things...
<StevenK> #   gutsy ia64   Successfully built
<StevenK> # gutsy i386 Successfully built
<StevenK> # gutsy amd64 Successfully built 
<StevenK> It failed on PPC, and is still building on sparc.
* TheMuso grumbles about ppc no longer being officially supported.
<ajmitch> but noone cares about PPC anymore
<ajmitch> so it's all fine
<StevenK> Apple killed it.
<TheMuso> Although it is nice that a few devs from the distro team have/use ppc.
<TheMuso> Yeah I know. I've just grown fond of it.
<TheMuso> X86 carried too much legacy crap.
<TheMuso> s/carried/carries
<StevenK> And now OS X has to deal with the baggage! Muahaha!
<ajmitch> which >> 99.9% of people never see or care about
<ajmitch> even in ubuntu, most of the legacy crap is hidden away
<persia> ajmitch: They feel the speed difference.  It's like using a crusoe...
<TheMuso> Yeah I know.
<TheMuso> ppc hardware from a few years ago is still quite useful however.
<ajmitch> persia: there's such a speed penalty running ubuntu on x86?
<ajmitch> I would say that windows would qualify as x86 legacy crap
<persia> ajmitch: For semi-equivalent hardware, yes.  It works on my 233MHz PPC, and not well on my 300MHz Pentium II.  Of course, I use amd64 for 99.9% of Ubuntu activities, so I shouldn't really talk...
<StevenK> I wouldn't compare a 233MHz PPC and a 300MHz Pentium II, though.
<persia> StevenK: Right.  I shouldn't get involved in architecture discussions anyway - there are too many reasons why X is different than Y.
<joejaxx> lets say a version number already for an application looks like this: 0.0.1-1
<joejaxx> for an application already*
<joejaxx> how should the debianized version look like?
<StevenK> 0.0.1-1-1
<joejaxx> 0.0.1-1-0?
<joejaxx> oh ok
<joejaxx> i did not know if it was that simple
<ajmitch> and upstream should be summarily shot
<joejaxx> ajmitch: :P
<StevenK> You can use dashes in the upstream version if you have a Debian revision. This is all laid out in Policy.
<ajmitch> thumbscrews may help as well
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: is feeling violent, today
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: you have no idea what horrors I've seen in code today
<Hobbsee> heh
<ajmitch> the code in question predates us having the source in svn
<Hobbsee> yummy...
<leonel> ScottK: done http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29616/
<joejaxx> ajmitch: i am packaging apf :)
<persia> Just to verify: if a build process downloads a python module from the network during configuration, that's an automatic buildd failure, right?
<ajmitch> joejaxx: that's really nice, but I have no idea what apf is or how it's relevant
<joejaxx> ajmitch: advance policy firewall
<ajmitch> ok..
<minghua> persia: I don't think so.  But it's definitely bad behavior.
<Fujitsu> The buildds don't have network access.
<Fujitsu> (other than to an archive mirror)
<persia> minghua: Hrm.  Is it actually a violation of Debian policy (as in I can file an RC bug), or is it (given Fujitsu's information) a candidate for a local Ubuntu change?
<minghua> persia: I think it's against policy.  But I don't think it's automatic FTBFS.  I may well be wrong, though.
* minghua checks policy.
<persia> minghua: Thanks.
<minghua> BTW what python module are we talking about?  From some third-party website?
<persia> minghua: http://cheeseshop.python.org/packages/2.5/s/setuptools/setuptools-0.6c5-py2.5.egg (and yes, directly from upstream).
<ajmitch> oh, setuptools
<minghua> Hmm.  It seems nowhere in the policy does it say "the source package must contain all the files used to build binary packages".
<ajmitch> persia: I believe you can disable egg-fetching
<persia> Odd, that.  I suspect it makes it non-DFSG-free due to the Desert Island test.
<persia> ajmitch: I'll look at that.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: It is a baaad idea to request a sync of geda, but not the rest of its bits.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Oh ok. I'll mark as invalid.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Doing so now.
<TheMuso> ok thanks
<Fujitsu> I filed requests for all of geda* half an hour ago, anyway.
<TheMuso> Ah ok.
<Fujitsu> 5 minutes before you, in fact. Very nice timing.
* persia thinks duplicate is nicer than invalid, for karma tracking...
<Fujitsu> persia: Probably.
<Hobbsee> yay, karma-that-does-nothing!
* Fujitsu must look up how to dupe via email.
<lifeless> duplicate nuber
<Hobbsee> hi lifeless!
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Wrong! It gives you extra ShipIt CDs if you have > 0, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> lifeless: Nah, that makes too much sense.
<Hobbsee> well, that's not hard
<Fujitsu> Aw, doko is catching up to my bug-karma.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: I think it was a case of your bug not showing when I checked, before I filed.
<minghua> Fujitsu: Are you serious?  ShipIt CD numbers differ by person?
<Fujitsu> minghua: As of Feisty you get an extra option if they deem you have contributed enough.
<Fujitsu> And a friend with 2 karma got that option...
<StevenK> Where the extra option is 10 CDs.
<Fujitsu> Right.
<minghua> Interesting.  I may ask for ShipIt CD one day.  Probably gutsy+1 since it's LTS, now that I think about it.
* StevenK has ShipIt CDs all the way back to Breezy.
* Fujitsu has them back to Warty.
* TheMuso doesn't bother now, because he can never get rid of them all, and its easier to burn one set, and copy when needed.
<Fujitsu> Only 2x i386 for Warty and 1x i386 Edgy, but a full set for the others.
<StevenK> I leave one set in my drawer and use them when I need.
<Fujitsu> I get a few for each release.
<minghua> I am lazy to check -- are alternative CDs included in ShipIt set?
<Fujitsu> minghua: No.
<Fujitsu> Just desktops since Dapper.
* RAOF wonders how he could help Desktop grow lvm capabilities
<minghua> Hmm.  Then I'd better confirm that desktop CDs support LVM before I ask for them.
<Fujitsu> RAOF: That has been specced for a couple of releases now, AFAIK.
<Fujitsu> minghua: It doesn't yet.
<minghua> Otherwise they are just Live CDs for me.
<minghua> Fujitsu: I know it doesn't for feisty.
<RAOF> And doesn't for gutsy
<minghua> Bad news. :-(
<RAOF> At least, as of now.
<RAOF> Fujitsu: Yeah, I know.
<Fujitsu> Ubiquity is sort of not being touched much lately.
* TheMuso will always use alternate CDs for install.
<TheMuso> Until they are no longer available.
<Fujitsu> LVM is very loved in Feisty, obviously. Still not supported on the Desktop CD, and the alternate involves a lot of waiting and hoping you won't have to install the system manually.
* persia grumbles that Debian's policy of binary uploads helps prevent FTBFS for arch:any packages, but encourages them for arch:all packages...
<Flannel> Waiting?  There's the LVM delay issue, but nothing wrong with it
<Fujitsu> Flannel: Sometimes it will fail to install the base system.
<Fujitsu> It doesn't seem to be predictable, but only occurs with LVM as far as I know.
<RAOF> LVM broke at the very start of the Feisty cycle, and hasn't since.  For me, at least
<Fujitsu> It works fine except for the installer.
<RAOF> Oh.  Fair enough.
<Fujitsu> And apparently coupling it with md is flaky, though I'm using it fine on two boxes at school.
<tonyyarusso> ScottK: Yes, I was working on packaging Nvu's new incarnation.  Unfortunately, I have been completely unable to reach the developer for the last few months, so have completely stalled on that task.
* Fujitsu wonders how long it'll be before an unofficial Kompozer bugfix release.
<tonyyarusso> beats me
<tonyyarusso> Kaze promised me a 0.8 release back in March.  Still no sign of it.  (we're at 0.7.7 now)
<tonyyarusso> There is a second dev registered on sourceforge though
<tonyyarusso> Maybe he'll grab it and run with it someday
* minghua remember the days of broken LVM of early feisty as well.
* tonyyarusso too - first day I installed it :)
<StevenK> Wasn't Kompozer or it's prior name removed?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: nvu? Yes.
<tonyyarusso> That was the word on the street from the guys at Linspire (trademark holder on Nvu), but Kaze claimed to know nothing of it.
<Fujitsu> `This has made a lot of people very angry, and been widely regarded as a bad move.'
<RAOF> :)
<tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: source?
<Fujitsu> Well, a lot of people were unhappy that nvu had vanished, and I had to fit in a HHGttG quote somewhere.
<tonyyarusso> ah
<tonyyarusso> Do we know anyone who could help code it?
<RAOF> Perdente was just in here wanting a project :)
<tonyyarusso> nice
<tonyyarusso> Guess they found one
<\sh> moins
<imbrandon> moins \sh 
<tbf> hmm.... seems launchpad has problems?
<RAOF> Not for me, it seems
<tbf> RAOF: well, getting timeouts when searching
<tbf> http://revu.tauware.de/
<tbf> "The ****Utnubu**** team would be more than happy to help you to get started."
<ajmitch> yes, that's not a typo
<tbf> ajmitch: really!?
<ajmitch> see the link
<tbf> indeed.... its ubuntu reversed
<ScottK> So if a package has a copyright disclaimer (I can tell by the xml tag) in Urdu, it's not unreasonable for me to just assume it says the same thing as the equivalent English file, right?
<persia> ScottK: When it comes to copyright, assumptions are bad.  What is the Urdu?
<ScottK> persia: It's in zekr on REVU.
* persia looks
<ScottK> It's also got Turkish and some others.
* persia doesn't have any Turkish comprehension...
<ScottK> grep -i -R copyright is always fun.
<ScottK> Actually my wife has some Urdu if that was all it was.
<persia> ScottK: Do you mean the res/lang/foo.xml files?  I think it's safe to say these are translations, and should be expected to be correct.
<ScottK> Yes.  OK then.
<ScottK> persia: You might want to take a look at zekr.  It's not ready for upload, but doesn't totally suck.
<persia> ScottK: I'm looking now.  I still think that the text should be split in the manner of the sword packages, as I don't see any reason to require Java to study, and don't see the purpose of multiple copies of the text, but at least most of the copyright issues appear to have been addressed.
* ScottK hasn't seen and doesn't even know what the sword pacakges are.
<persia> ScottK: It's the collection of study / search / analysis interfaces for the collection of bibles.
<ScottK> Ah.
<persia> Hmmm..  I'm really not sure about carrying a local patch to change the text of the Quran.  That sounds less than ideal, somehow...
<ScottK> Agreed, but it's not a packaging issue.
<persia> ScottK: Are you sure?  it's a local patch in the packaging.
<ScottK> If the patch applies, sure, but not the theological impact of the patch.
<ScottK> All the patches apply when you build it BTW.
* minghua ponders the possibility of patching bible.
<ScottK> persia: debian/zekr.sh has got to go.  Is there an easy way to find out if there is a package that provides a useable gecko engine installed?
<persia> ScottK: OK.  I accept that the theological implications of the patch are outside the purview of packaging.
<persia> ScottK: I have no idea - perhaps ask a member of the mozilla team? (they seem to be more active in your timezones than mine)
<ScottK> hmmm you mean like right now?
<ScottK> Do they have an IRC channel?
<persia> ScottK: #ubuntu-mozilla, but I usually see them active just before I sleep
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure that you should be patching any theologoical book like that....
<ScottK> No one home right now.
<persia> Hobbsee: Right, but are the theological implications part of a packaging review?
<Hobbsee> persia: well, at least a question about "why are you doing this?" yes
<Hobbsee> persia: being that the packager is responsible for what's going into the archive
* persia adds to growing list of comments...
<Hobbsee> you have to look why it's there, etc - is it there as a resource, or what?
<Hobbsee> ie, is the potential user going to take it as a credible source, etc?
<ScottK> It looks like they picked a different default translation.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Any idea then how we find out if this is truly the quran or an extremist revision?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: no idea.
<Hobbsee> ask someone who speaks it.  find a copy of teh quran, and diff it.  not sure there.
<ScottK> Reading the blog of the lead developer ought to at least give a hint.
* persia thinks the nice folks at http://www.daralislam.org/ might be willing to provide a stamp of approval
<persia> (It would also be nice if I knew the appropriate link to an equivalent international organisation)
<ScottK> Actually I know some people I could ask to look at it.
<persia> ScottK: Regarding debian/zekr.sh: there's also references in ./build.xml.  This probably needs a closer look by someone familiar with mozilla & java...
<ScottK> It looks like the main purpose of it is to find out if you have gecko installed through some just not right way to do it.
<ScottK> Did you know there is an Ubuntu Muslim Edition?
<ScottK> www.ubuntume.com
<persia> ScottK: I believe zekr was originally extracted therefrom.
<ScottK> It's included there.
<ScottK> Ooh.  And they have forums too.
* persia grumbles that REVU comments are limited to 2K
<TheMuso> persia: I've run into that limitation several times.
<persia> TheMuso: It's not even enough for lintian & linda output for most packages...
<TheMuso> Yup.
<Fujitsu> persia: Convince somebody to make the DB use TEXT, or at least a larger VARCHAR.
<persia> Fujitsu: By somebody, I expect you mean someone with real management access to the DB server and the code, but I suspect they are all focused on the next revision (or, based on other sources, are instead busy with other things).
* persia hopes that PPA + bug comments will address this soon...
<Fujitsu> persia: Nobody has touched REVU2 in about a year, and the change shouldn't be difficult.
<Fujitsu> Probably won't even need a code change.
<persia> Fujitsu: Hmm...  Probably best to discuss this in about 8 hours, when the most interested party is likely to be around.
<Fujitsu> Most probably.
<persia> Cool!  sbuild accepts a dget'able URL as an argument :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Really? Nice!
<RAOF> Wicked.  It also uses lvm snapshots, right?  I'll need to set that up :)
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  I just had a paste mistake, and it worked anyway :)
<persia> RAOF: If can, or it can use standard chroots, as you like.  snapshots are fast :)
<RAOF> Yeah, that's what I was after.
<StevenK> I still find sbuild a little fragile. It sometimes fails to create the snapshot with no error.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I've never had that. The only issues I've had recently have been when devmapper was doing crazy things and not creating /dev/vg/lv for some LVs.
<persia> StevenK: True.  For me that happens 3-5% of the time, which seems acceptable, as one just needs to retry for it to work.  I think it's a timing issue with schroot, as I've encountered the same with using schroot snapshots to test things (through the dchroot wrapper).
<TheMuso> Go circuit breakers tripping.
<TheMuso> Actually, safety switches.
<superm1> hi everyone, if someone could do a revu, i'd appreciate it: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5980
<persia> superm1: Just real quick-like, /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL is a link to GPLv2 :)
<superm1> it hasn't been updated to 3 yet :)?
<persia> superm1: Nope.
<superm1> persia, well then what is the proper way to refer to it
<superm1> is it going to be in common-licenses soonish?
<persia> superm1: /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-3
<superm1> okay i'll point it to that instead, and reupload
<superm1> persia, okay: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5981
<persia> superm1: There's a couple other little things.  See my comment.
* ogra wonders if there are motus intrested in packaging http://www.synfig.com/download/ or http://ktoon.toonka.com/
<persia> ogra: Have you already opened needs-packaging bugs?
<ajmitch> ogra: you're not interested? ;)
<evand> I tried uploading a source package to revu before I was in the universe-contributors team, but I haven't recieved a rejection notice nor has the package appeared on REVU.  When I try to upload it again it cannot create the dsc file in /incoming.  Any ideas?
<ajmitch> evand: let one of us know what the package name is
<persia> evand: The old files are stuck, and the new files can't be done.  Which package?
* ajmitch has cleared incoming
<evand> ajmitch: evolution-exchange (I also accidentally uploaded an i386 one as well
<evand> thanks!
<ajmitch> binary uploads get cleared now
<ajmitch> (automagically)
<evand> neat
<persia> ajmitch: Good feature!
<ajmitch> persia: did you see the rcbugs with comments?
<persia> ajmitch: I saw it, and like it, but based on your previous statement regarding the hosting, I'm ignoring it for now.
<ajmitch> ah yes, that's right
<ajmitch> it shouldn't be too slow, it's a fairly basic page
<ajmitch> but I'll try & move it to imbrandon's box
<persia> ajmitch: Have you already made hosting arrangements, or are you looking for support?
<ajmitch> already made them last night
<persia> Great.  When it's really live, could it update ~6 hours or so?
<ajmitch> the debian bugs only syncs nightly
<ajmitch> but it could refresh the ubuntu part more often
* ajmitch has to push the appropriate data file to imbrandon's box, since I have to have ssh access to a debian server
<persia> ajmitch: That's the part I'd like.  I've found a couple cases where the package is already updated.  Then again, with comments, perhaps this isn't necessary.
<XimDev> hey there
<XimDev> i have a question concerning the membership
<XimDev> I become lost in the wiki pages
<XimDev> first i become a member, then MOTU Hopeful then a MOTU then a  developer, right?
<persia> XimDev: There's no strict progression.  You're welcome to contribute to universe starting right now (see the topic).
<superm1> persia, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5982 , that should cover the things you mentioned.  
<persia> superm1: Just as a reminder, it's best to request reviews from everyone: the more people who review the package, the better it will be :)
<XimDev> i have studied software quality engineering but I omitted it that from my CV
<persia> superm1: Two BZR revisions!  Wow, upstream really does the release early, release often thing :)  Also, isn't there some neat feature that allows one to pull the BZR changelog into ./Changelog when exporting?
<persia> ogra: Just FYI, it appears that synfigstudio is already packaged and distributed...
<persia> Grrr.  \, |, and _ are working again, but right-brace and right-bracket have been lost (really, I didn't touch anything).  Could someone please give me a couple characters to copy?  These don't appear in nicknames as often.
* persia goes to hunt a right-brace in random code
<persia> OK.  The complete list of things with architecture-specific NBS is shorter than I thought, but for i in i386 amd64 powerpc sparc; do echo Processing: $i; quinn-diff -i -p $i.Packages 2>&1 | awk '/warning/ {print $3 }' | uniq | xargs rmadison -u ubuntu | grep gutsy | grep $i; done seems to be the easiest way to get it.
<imbrandon> ajmitch, ping
<ajmitch> imbrandon: pong
<imbrandon> everythng ok with the access ?
<ajmitch> haven't done anything yet
<imbrandon> noticed you dident put anything there yret
<imbrandon> ahh ok
<imbrandon> just checkin in 
<imbrandon> :)
<ajmitch> k :)
<heatxsink> hello all, I'm trying to package a apache2 module that isn't normally included by default can anyone give me a pointer as to how to JUST package the module that I'm compiling?
<ogra> ajmitch, as you can see in the delay of my reply i'm not really having time to play with new packages ;)
<ogra> persia, very cool :) thanks for the info (i could have looked myself, sorry, these apps just came up in an edubuntu thread)
<persia> ogra: rmadison is your friend :)
<ogra> indeed :)
<xxxxx1> good morning (?) all.
<heatxsink> hello all, when using dh_make (I'm packaging a apache module) which I use when defining the type of package?
<heatxsink> library?
<xxxxx1> heatxsink, did you read packaging guide?
<Nafallo> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<Nafallo> sorry. just copy-pasted that line again :-)
<xxxxx1> heatxsink, section 2 - Packaging with Debhelper
<Vorian> it's in section 3 :)
<xxxxx1> Vorian, nope. 3 is CDBS section
<xxxxx1> ah
<xxxxx1> 3.2
<xxxxx1> heh
<Vorian> lol 
<Vorian> nice call :)
* peanutb curses his cousin  who is using all the bandwidth
<frafu> xxxxx1: could you give me the url of $3.2? 
<xxxxx1> frafu, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/
<frafu> thanks
<xxxxx1> np
<xxxxx1> frafu, check this too: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<frafu> ok, I will have a look... 
<frafu> xxxxx1: thanks again 
<pygi> hi folks
<norsetto> persia: Hi Emmet, still here!?
<norsetto> dholbach: hey Daniel!
<persia> norsetto: Yep, but not for much longer.
<norsetto> persia: lsusb doesn't say anything of help, unfortunately
<norsetto> persia: what is strange is that the zaurus seems to be a pet of mdz :-O
<ryanakca> persia: hmm. *pokes the magic variable*. I have it set up as they told me in #gnu, but it still doesn't work. 
<persia> ryanakca: Interesting.  pastebin?
<ryanakca> http://pastebin.ca/616218
<ryanakca> persia: I guess I could always decompress the manpages, and compress them properly...
* ryanakca goes to do that instead
<persia> ryanakca: It's probably easier to delete them, and use debian/aoeui.manpages instead.
<persia> ryanakca: Alternately, try echo $GZIP in an install:: rule to see if you stll have the value in the environment.
<ryanakca> persia: yeah, so, during the install of the manpages, a copy gets created in debian/ ? Or would I have to extract them myself and put them there?
<persia> ryanakca: debian/$package.manpages doesn't require that the manpage be in debian/ - just feed it the path (relative to $(CURDIR)) to the manpages created as part of the upstream make install
<persia> norsetto: Thanks for looking.  I've replied in a /query, as I don't think my device problems are on-topic here :)
<ryanakca> persia: ok, so, it aoeui.manpages, I would put in $(CURDIR)/debian/aoeui/usr/share/man/man1/aoeui.1.gz     and     $(CURDIR)/debian/aoeui/usr/share/man/man1/asdfg.1.gz     ?
<persia> ryanakca: No.  Rather just aoeui.1 and asdfg.1 (or at least it looks like make install generates these in the package root directory)
<persia> ryanakca: The .gz files are the ones you want to delete.
<ryanakca> persia: ok. I'll fix it up, and then test it :)
<persia> ryanakca: Good luck,
<ryanakca> persia: echo $GZIP in install/aoeui:: returns this in the build log:
<ryanakca> echo ZIP
<ryanakca> ZIP
* ryanakca wonders how that works...
<persia> ryanakca: Ah.  You probably have to force the shell (both for the variable setting, and the echo).  The reason you get that is that make interprets the $G as an undefined variable.
<persia> ryanakca: As a result, I doubt you actually have $GZIP defined in the local shell.
<man-di> ryanakca: use $(GZIP) instead of $GZIP
<ryanakca> ah, ok
<man-di> make needs the $(...)
<persia> man-di: To set make variables, yes.  To set shell variables, it's a little more complicated, no?
<ryanakca> man-di: do I need `$(GZIP)="-9 --name"; export $(GZIP)` as well?
<ryanakca> (instead of `GZIP="-9 --name"; export GZIP`)
<persia> ryanakca: Unless $(GZIP) is defined in the makefile, that will be a noop.
<man-di> ryanakca: no
<man-di> ryanakca: GZIP="-9 --name" (without indention)
<man-di> ryanakca: then $(GZIP) is defined for all targets
<ryanakca> man-di: ok, thanks :)
* persia thinks make variables and shell variables are different, but is sufficiently unsure to not disagree
<ryanakca> persia: now I get:
<ryanakca> echo
<ryanakca> dh_installdocs -paoeui ./README
<ryanakca> it returs 'echo' blank, and then a newline, with a blank, and then the dh_installdocs
<ryanakca> persia: I'll just do it with aoeui.manpages
<man-di> persia: they are different
<man-di> persia: but some things are the same
<leonel> apt-get install coffee ...
<persia> man-di: Does GZIP="-9 --name" in the makefile export to the local shell, so a later call to gzip automatically takes the desired arguments?
<man-di> persia: no
<man-di> it makes it only available in the Makefile
<man-di> you can then use 'GZIP=$(GZIP) command' to export it to a command or do 'gzip $(GZIP) more.options...'
<persia> ryanakca: Based on that, I'd say that your output above is expected, and correct.  Try something with $(shell GZIP="-9 --name"; export GZIP), although this may only run in a subshell, which might not be what you want.
<persia> man-di: The debian sponsor has declared that the upstream makefile may not be patched :(
<man-di> persia: this doesnt work, make executes  a new shell for each line
<persia> That's what I feared.  Hrm.
<man-di> persia: "The debian sponsor has declared that the upstream makefile may not be patched" ? What a f... rule is that?
<persia> ryanakca: I think you have to use debian/$package.manpages or find a new sponsor who lets you apply the patch from SVN to the upstream makefile.
<persia> man-di: No idea.  Doesn't make any sense to me either.
<ryanakca> man-di: hmmm... I could always find myself a new sponsor :)
<man-di> ryanakca: may I ask who the debian sponsor is?
<ryanakca> man-di: pabs
<ryanakca> man-di: I even said that the patch was pulled from upstreams SVN, but:
<ryanakca> 22:31:11 < pabs> ryanakca: I'd say use GZIP until that version is released and then drop GZIP 
<ryanakca> (GZIP being the magic variable)
<man-di> ryanakca: I always thought pabs was technically cool
<ryanakca> hmm
<ryanakca> I personally find 1 patch from upstream cleaner and easier to maintain than both changes in the rules file and in aoeui.manpages... but, It'll have to do :)
<persia> ryanakca: Alternately, you could use a lintian override until merging the upstream change, but that's a large hammer for a small nail.
* ryanakca nods
<persia> man-di: pabs *is* technically cool
<man-di> persia: that is the first strange issue I hear about him
<man-di> but everyone has a strange side
<persia> ryanakca: Use the make export directive, like export variable += value
<man-di> good that you dont know mine ;-)
<persia> man-di: No.  make supports this - it's just buried deep in the manual.
<persia> ryanakca: Thanks a lot for asking me about this: I'm now better with make.
<man-di> persia: wow. never saw this before.
<man-di> good that you found this
<persia> ryanakca: Let me correct myself, you want "export GZIP := ..."
<persia> for those following at home, please note that "FOO := $(shell echo $$FOO)" is the equivalent inverse.
<Q-FUNK> can anybody think of a tool that would allow sorting filenames alphabetically, but starting from the right instead of the left?
<persia> Q-FUNK: ls | rev | sort  | rev ?
<Q-FUNK> ah, I didn't know about rev
<Q-FUNK> useful one
<Q-FUNK> thanks, persia
<ryanakca> persia: thanks :)
<ryanakca> persia: so, 'export GZIP  := -9 --name' ?
<persia> ryanakca: You might need quotes around the value (I think you do), but that's supposed to work.
<ryanakca> persia: sweet, thanks :)
<ScottK> leonel: Can you test Edgy?
<norsetto> dholbach: are u alive Daniel?
<dholbach> norsetto: a bit, yes
* Hobbsee plays dead
<norsetto> dholbach: well, it was still kind of warm
<norsetto> I think the breathing gave him away .....
<norsetto> see u tomorrow then .... cheers
<dholbach> norsetto: is there anything I can help you with?
<norsetto> dholbach: me? dunno, having a look at the stuff in REVU perhaps?
<dholbach> norsetto: next week will be better - I'm at a conference at the moment, so I'm fairly busy with all kinds of stuff
<dholbach> you can drop me a mail and I can try to get around to it
<dholbach> but I can't promise, sorry
<norsetto> dholbach: sure, its just a new package for which I need some advice as it involves binary libraries 
<dholbach> can you mail ubuntu-motu-mentors or ubuntu-motu or both about that?
<dholbach> that might be your best option
<dholbach> as there are people on the list who are far cleverer than I am
* persia also suggests requesting REVU in this channel
<norsetto> dholbach: oh, it can wait, there is no urgency, in any case I hoping to get some feedback from upstream
<dholbach> feel free to ask the lists or in the channel
<dholbach> by no means get blocked on me :)
<norsetto> and NO ... I'm not going to request REVU in this channel ;-)
<norsetto> just kidding
* dholbach hugs norsetto
<norsetto> have fun guys, love and hugs to all (steveK included)
<norsetto> since he is sleeping ;-)
<leonel> ScottK: need to install it
<ScottK> leonel: If you could try out the clamav 0.88.7-1ubuntu1 package I put up on Edgy, that would be a huge help.  I also put up 0.88.7-1ubuntu1~dapper using your changes.
* ScottK just counted and has 13 different revisions of clamav built on his development box.
<zul> umm...ok
<leonel> ScottK: I remember I have a qemu image to test it 
<leonel> let me  plug that disc and  test it
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> leonel: When you get done testing, please comment your results in Bug #83065.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 83065 in edgy-backports "Please backport clamav 0.88.7-1ubuntu1 to edgy from feisty" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83065
<ScottK> Well now...  That's an interesting tidbit I didn't know: http://www.cups.org/articles.php?L476+I0+TFAQ+M10+P1+Q
<jdong> grr
<jdong> is there a regular expression that matches valid debian package names?
<jdong> I'll make one myself if not, but I can't help but think someone has one
<vorlon> [a-z0-9] [a-z0-9+-.] +
<ScottK> I don't see ~ in there anywhere.
<vorlon> that's because ~ isn't valid in a package name
<geser> ~ shouldn't be found in *names*
<ScottK> Ah.  Nevermind.
<avoine> I made a debdiff for this bug #88153 but I'm not sure what I have to do next. Ask for a sponsors?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 88153 in ipsec-tools "very simple to fix racoon completion problem" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/88153
<avoine> Or maybe the bug have to be confirm?
<jdong> vorlon: thanks
<geser> avoine: subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to this bug (as ipsec-tools is in main)
<DarkMageZ> persia, with debian or with the debian "maintainer" of the package?
<avoine> ok
<ScottK> avoine: No opinion on the validity of the change, but the debdiff looks reasonable.  Did you look at the other bugs in the package to see if you could sweep up more than one?
<avoine> no I don't
<avoine> I check now
<ScottK> avoine: Also, ipsec-tools is needing a merge from Debian: http://merges.ubuntu.com/i/ipsec-tools/REPORT you might ask doko (who did the last merge) if he minds if you do it and then roll your bug fix(es) in with the merge debdiff.
<avoine> ok
<candyman50> Hey all, anyone know how to add a new piece of software to the multiverse or universe apt repositories?
<geser> someone needs to package it
<candyman50> so if I have a .deb already packaged, what do I do next?
<zul> !revu
<ubotu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<candyman50> thanks guys
<RainCT> ei
<ScottK> persia: Weren't you working on wxGTK transition?
<ScottK> If so, I thought https://launchpad.net/bugs/125627 would be of interest.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125627 in mkvtoolnix "Please recompile against wxGTK 2.8 (for gutsy)" [Undecided,New]  
<sacater> when I run dch -i it launches vim
<sacater> it used to do nano, which is my preffered text editor
<geser> export EDITOR=nano
<ScottK> sacater: Congratulations on the upgrade.
<sacater> thanks
<sacater> ScottK: ?
* ScottK likes vim better than nano.
* geser too
<sacater> i need to get to use it
<sacater> nano is simpkler
<leonel> ScottK: clamav-88.7-1ubuntu1    on edgy   builded  installed and tested  GOOD !
<sacater> and faster
<ScottK> leonel: Excellent.  Please comment that on the bug I mentioned.
<sacater> geser: didnt work
<leonel> ScottK:  what bug you mentioned ??
<leonel> ScottK: I've updated the wiki
<geser> sacater: have you perhaps VISUAL set?
<ScottK> leonel: When you get done testing, please comment your results in Bug #83065.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 83065 in edgy-backports "Please backport clamav 0.88.7-1ubuntu1 to edgy from feisty" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83065
<sacater> geser: no idea..
<geser> echo $VISUAL
<gnomefreak> sacater: sudo update-alternatives you should beable to set it in there (cant remember the exact name of it off hand but you can pass --all to set all defaults
<sacater> geser: [sacater@neo ~] $ echo $VISUAL
<sacater> gvim
<sacater> [sacater@neo ~] $ 
<geser> unset VISUAL
<geser> and try again
<sacater> geser: ?
<geser> VISUAL is used before EDITOR
<sacater> geser: can you quickly paste some commands
<geser> dch looks in VISUAL which editor to use and find gvim there and doesn't lookup EDITOR anymore
<leonel> ScottK:  done
<sacater> geser: where is the file where hteese prefs are set up
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks.
<geser> sacater: I'd try to search in ~/.bashrc, ~/.bash_profile or the global one's in /etc
<ScottK> leonel: I've subscribe the Ubuntu archive managers on that one, so now we just wait.
<leonel> ScottK: Great  
<man-di> Can someone please read https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libtoolbar-java/+bug/46088 and tell me what he/she thinks about this bug report?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 46088 in libtoolbar-java "bottom toolbar" [Medium,New]  
<geser> it's a little bit old and for a test version of dapper
<geser> I'd say this bug is misclassified and the reporter talks about the gnome panel
<man-di> geser: that was my impression too
<man-di> geser: but he gives not much infos either
<man-di> geser: what should we do about this bugreport
<man-di> ?
<man-di> close as invalid?
<geser> given that it is over a year old and doesn't contain much information, I'd close it
<ScottK> close == invalid in this case, but invite them to reopen if they have additional specifics.
<man-di> ScottK: yes, sure
<xxxxx1> bye all
<Spec> do you need to sign your package in order to upload it to REVU?
<man-di> Spec: yes
<Spec> 'k, hmm, i'll need to juggle my package then :p
<Spec> as my key is not on the server i use it build the package :p
<man-di> Spec: debsign -r ... helps with this
<man-di> Spec: I do this all the time
<man-di> this only scps .dsc and .changes files back and forth
<Spec> debsign -r?
<Spec> well, my key is on my (dead) linux laptop...and i'm at work and my key is here, but it's on a windars comp
<Spec> so i can use windows-gpg to sign just the .dsc and .changes file?
<man-di> Spec: yes, only these two files need to be signed
<Spec> 'k, thanks
<man-di> grrrr
<man-di> where is my multidistrotools checkout?
<man-di> Does somebody knows where the latest multidistrotools can be fetched? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultiDistroTools is not uptodate
<ryanakca> man-di: hmm.. I'm getting:
<ryanakca> gzip -c aoeui.1 >aoeui.1.gz
<ryanakca> gzip: '-9': No such file or directory
<ryanakca> so, does that mean that after running  'gzip -c aoeui.1 >aoeui.1.gz', it also runs 'gzip -9' and chokes because it isn't compressing anything?
<ryanakca> or would I have to change it to    export GZIP  := -9 $1          or something of the sort?
<pygi> persia, yay, built on ppc :)
<pygi> mr_pouit, I'm after the bug 
<pygi> tomorrow or so
<TheMuso> c
<TheMuso> argh
<hendrixski> :-( patching is weird :-(
<hendrixski> I am so confused I included dpatch.make  but I get    make: patch-stamp: Command not found
<ryanakca> persia: weee! upstream released 1.1.0, so that means no more crazy obscure variable searching :D
<TheMuso> persia: I'll look at ubuntustudio-sounds in a while, as soon as I have a few important things out of the way.
* hendrixski *blinks*
<hendrixski> I fixed the "patch-stamp" not found error by joining it onto the line above it??? that makes no sense...
#ubuntu-motu 2007-07-13
<hendrixski> why can't dpkg-buildpackage find configure-stamp when there's a patch system attached?
<hendrixski> *sigh, umm... google has zero results for this so I'm asking here.. .. dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot gives me "make: configure-stamp: Command not found"
<hendrixski> what am I possibly doing wrong?
<Nafallo> installed build-essential?
<Nafallo> you might want to look in debian/rules what configure-stamp is supposed to do as well
<hendrixski> yes, of course.... build-essential, debhelper, and dpatch... all there... all I did to debian/rules was add patch-stamp into build-stamp and unpatch into clean
<Nafallo> weird
<hendrixski> Nafallo, configure stamp does the same thing it did when it was created by dh_make:  "dh_testdir" and "touch configure-stamp"
<Nafallo> try tabbing those to see if they are installed.
<Nafallo> I would be surprised if they wasn't thou
<hendrixski> Nafallo, they tab-completed in bash
<Nafallo> weirdness then
<Nafallo> you might want to pastebin parts of that rules
<hendrixski> k
<hendrixski> !paste
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<hendrixski> oops... should've messaged ubotu for that :-( sorry
<Nafallo> no problem :-)
<hendrixski> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29725/
<geser> hendrixski: re "patch-stamp": that makes sense as patch-stamp is an other target (and not a command) which you specify as a dependency for an other target
<hendrixski> geser, ??? whoa what??  
<geser> hendrixski: merge line 81 (from the paste) into line 80
<geser> make also know dependencies, which target (or file) must be run to be able to run this target
<hendrixski> like this:   build-stamp: patch-stamp configure-stamp
<geser> yes
<hendrixski> ooohhh, so the first line is the dependency for that rule?
<geser> build-stamp get only run if patch-stamp (the file created by the target of the same name) and configure-stamp exist
<geser> yes
<hendrixski> that definately explains a lot
<hendrixski> it's like the more of these mistakes I make the more small things I learn and eventually I'll be able to look at a debain/rules and understand what it does
<geser> dpkg-buildpackage calls IIRC the binary target, for the binary target to run must first binary-indep and binary-arch be run
<geser> for binary-arch must the targets build and install be run 
<geser> and so on
<geser> in the end are configure, make, make install, etc. run in the right order to create a deb
<hendrixski> I see... I didn't catch that from reading any of the manuals...
<hendrixski> Man.. There is a TON of information I'd like to add to http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html   like that for example... or how to use diff
<hendrixski> YES!!!!! it worked!!!!!  and the program runs with my patch and all!!!
* hendrixski runs around the room yelling "hooray"
<hendrixski> geser, Nafallo,  THANK YOU :-)
<Nafallo> no problem. I barely did anything :-)
<Nafallo> don't accuse me! I'm innocent! :-)
<hendrixski> Nafallo, you got the ball rolling, then handed it off the geser, who scored the goal... in most sports that counts as an "assist" (and helps the athletes sallary go up)
<Nafallo> sports. sounds... like something I should know about... I think. has it anything to do with murder? :-)
<hendrixski> Nafallo, yup... feeding Christians to lions was a sport once
<Nafallo> kewl!
<Nafallo> one of my names is Christian
<Nafallo> :-P
<hendrixski> LOL:  one of my names is Ijustmademyfirstdebianpackagelastnight and another one is Ijustmademyfirstdpatchtoday
<Nafallo> hehe :-)
<Nafallo> a bit to long for my taste.
<Nafallo> should be difficult enough to write your signature ;-)
<hendrixski> I could just scribble and draw a few lines the way I do for my regular signature
<Nafallo> ;-)
<hendrixski> I have two I's and an  in my last name.. so I just turn them into really long lines that hover above a squigle...
<hendrixski> now followup question...
<hendrixski> adding a patch to a package generally means changing the name right? or are there some that just add patches but keep the same name?
<pygi> hendrixski, what do you mean?
<pygi> changing the name of what?
<pygi> package?
<hendrixski> like if I add a patch to helloworld-0.2-1... does it have to turn turn into helloworld-0.2-2, or is that optional?
<hendrixski> the package... yes
<pygi> hendrixski, it has to turn into -2, yes
<pygi> in reality you'd have for example:
<pygi> brasero_0.6.0-0ubuntu1 --> brasero_0.6.0-0ubuntu2
<hendrixski> pygi, I see... so do I just rename the .deb file or is there a tool that makes the name change for me?
<pygi> hendrixski, no, no!
<pygi> hendrixski, you do the change in debian/changelog
<pygi> actually in some cases when you use "dch -i" it'll do that for you
<hendrixski> oh... right... forgot about that
* hendrixski looks at man dch
<hendrixski> nice, it even drops me into my favorite editor :-)
<pygi> hehe :)
<pygi> vim, emacs, nano? :)
<hendrixski> vim
<pygi> hehe, nice :)
<hendrixski> hhhmmmm... had a debian/menu this time... but it didn't appear in my applications menu
<hendrixski> the menu file looks right...  ?package(hellonurse):needs="X11|text|vc|wm" section="Apps/Accessories"  title="hellonurse" command="/usr/bin/hellonurse"
<hendrixski> is there something I need to put in debian/rules or something to access it?
<Spec> errr
<Spec> do i sign the .dsc file detached or attached?
<Fujitsu> Spec: You use debsign on the .changes
<Spec> Fujitsu: i'm on a windows box
<Spec> Fujitsu: scp'd .dsc and .changes over here...and i was told i could just sign those two files...but i don't know if it's an attached sign or a detached sign
<Fujitsu> Spec: It's meant to be inline.
<Fujitsu> (building packages on a Windows machine is *really* *really* wrong)
<Spec> err, i built it on linux
<Spec> it's just the machine i built it is a shared machine, so i don't wanna put my gpg key on it
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Spec> as other people have root and i don't know them, therefore don't trust them
<Spec> and they've remotely "ifconfig eth0 down"'d remotely  before
<Spec> err, s/remotely/moo/
<Jazzva> Umm, I have a problem testing a package with pbuilder. This is the last part of the output -> http://www.pastebin.ca/617031
<Jazzva> I guess the problem is at dh_installdocs. It asks for CHANGES~, but it isn't present. Does anyone know how can I fix that?
<Fujitsu> Jazzva: Check debian/docs in the source package.
<Jazzva> Aha, I see... It lists README and CHANGES~ files. So, dh_installdocs trys to find CHANGES~, doesn't succed and then reports an error, right? Should I just remove CHANGES~ from debian/docs?
<ryanakca> Jazzva: if CHANGES~ isn't in $(CURDIR) (the root of the sources), then remove it from debian/docs
<Jazzva> ryanakca: It isn't, but there is CHANGES, should I include that one in debian/docs? It documents upstream authors' changes from previous versions, so I think it would be useful to include it.
<ryanakca> I would substitute CHANGES~ with CHANGES in debian/doc
<ryanakca> if it's permissible to include an Upstream changelog in docs... dunno, check the Debian Policy Manual
<Jazzva> ryanakca: That's what I meant :). Thanks for the help.
<ryanakca> Jazzva: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html#s-changelogs
<Jazzva> ryanakca: Thanks for the link.
<ryanakca> hmm. Any debian maintainers willing to take a quick look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5992 please?
<Jazzva> ryanakca: I'm not sure how am I supposed to install CHANGES as changelog.gz. Any hint?
<ryanakca> Jazzva: I think it should get done automatically
<Jazzva> ryanakca: Oh, ok. :)
<martoss> hi guys
<martoss> i am trying to build an updated package of pymol.
<martoss> i started from the sources via "apt-get source pymol"
<martoss> then i applied the patch, to a directory i checked out via svn, which created me the debian/*  and modified some stuff.
<martoss> dpkg-buildpackage: source version without epoch 0.98+0.99rc6-2ubuntu2
<martoss>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
<martoss> /usr/bin/fakeroot: 152: debian/rules: Permission denied
<martoss> this is where I got stuck.
<martoss> Any ideas?
<martoss> argh, forgot to make it executable.
<minghua> martoss: "applied the patch, to a directory i checked out via svn, which created me the debian/*" sounds very wrong.
<minghua> martoss: You should already have all debian/* stuff after you did "apt-get source pymol".
<martoss> hmm ok, maybe i didn't express correctly
<martoss> minghua, yep, this produced me the old source with debian directory
<italianninja2> hi can someone help me
<martoss> i tried to build a package from the svn directory.
<italianninja2> ubuntu wont load gui?
<martoss> italianninja2, load the gui? You mean the X-Server?
<minghua> italianninja2: Please ask for support on #ubuntu, not here.
<italianninja2> they are not answering me ther
<italianninja2> e
<martoss> minghua, ok maybe my question in a more general form: i wanna checkout sources from sourceforge of pymol. then build a debian package from it
<martoss> i got the sources with debian directory from feisty and now i need to modify the svn sources correspondingly. Or do I miss sth.
<minghua> martoss: That's not exactly an easy task.  And I don't have time to guide you though it, sorry.
<martoss> ok, i play around a bit...
<martoss> it's not urgent
<minghua> martoss: However, I see that gutsy already has pymol 1.0-1, so you should try backporting the gutsy package first.
<martoss> aye!
<martoss> introducing additional patches should be easy
<persia> DarkMageZ: The Debian maintainer would be best.
<persia> ScottK: I'm mostly interested in dumping wx2.4 (which is very broken).  2.6 is acceptable, but it's a loose Lenny target, so I don't really expect it until gutsy+2 or thereabouts
<persia> pygi: Great.  Keep watching: it should be done soon.
<persia> ryanacka: Hurrah!  That's easiest
<persia> hendrixski: There are two menus.  Ideally, you want both a menu file and a .desktop file
<persia> TheMuso: My current ETU is about now+90 minutes.  If you get to it first, that'd be great.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: where's your monotone sync bug?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: I was test-building it and it failed right after I closed that. I'm looking at uploading it shortly.
* Fujitsu hits Debian maintainers that don't test-build.
<ajmitch> it worked for me
<ajmitch> I've been using it for a couple of days with no problems
<ajmitch> what version did you grab?
<Fujitsu> It works unless you're not building arch-all.
<Fujitsu> The build-depends-indep stuff is needed for an arch: any build too.
<ajmitch> exciting
<ajmitch> obviously the debian maintainer did test-build, just not in the same way you did
<Fujitsu> Well, I guess.
<nixternal> howdy
<RAOF> Howda
<ajmitch> salut
<persia> TheMuso: My estimate was off.  I'll take care of ubuntustudio-sounds now (unless you're in the middle of it).
<Fujitsu> How often do DEPWAIT builds get retried?
<minghua> I suppose asking in -devel has a better chance to get an answer. ;-)
<Fujitsu> I thought someone in here might know.
<crimsun> they're retried automatically.
<crimsun> I don't know offhand if they're immediate, however.
<StevenK> persia, TheMuso: It seems gimp-svg is not built from a source package any more and ubuntustudio-graphics depends on it. Are either of you able to investigate?
<persia> StevenK: I'll take a look.  Thanks for pointing this out.
<minghua> persia, StevenK: gimp-svg is built from gimp source package since 2.2.16.
<minghua> (at least in Debian)
<persia> minghua: Not for the source that my gutsy apt-cache sees :)
<minghua> !info gimp gutsy
<ubotu> gimp: The GNU Image Manipulation Program - DEVELOPMENT VERSION. In component main, is optional. Version 2.3.18-1ubuntu2 (gutsy), package size 4413 kB, installed size 11172 kB
<minghua> Hmm, I should have said "... if you use the 2.2.x stable branch".
<minghua> !info gimp feisty
<ubotu> gimp: The GNU Image Manipulation Program. In component main, is optional. Version 2.2.13-1ubuntu4.2 (feisty), package size 2899 kB, installed size 7920 kB
<minghua> I see.
<persia> Erm.  Germinate is interesting.
<jdong> tha'ts what she said?
<persia> Is hppa 32-bit or 64-bit?
<StevenK> Depends.
<StevenK> My hppa at home is 32-bit, but 64-bit one are around. I'm uncertain if userland changes from 32-bit, however.
<persia> StevenK: OK.  If an app has 32-bit assumptions in the code, should it be distributed by the Ubuntu hppa port?
<StevenK> The Ubuntu hppa port hasn't been touched since Dapper, by the way.
<persia> StevenK: Right.  I'll just leave it alone then.  Thanks.
<ajmitch> people are still looking at hppa
<Fujitsu> It's supposedly bootstrapping gutsy, though it was also supposedly bootstrapping feisty.
<StevenK> Yeah, it was bootstrapping feisty the entire time it was in development.
<Fujitsu> Right.
<Fujitsu> How common is hppa, anyway? I've never seen such a machine.
<StevenK> Becoming more uncommon, I think.
<superm1> persia, in your comment to mythbuntu-live-autostart, you said that get-orig-source should be abel to be ran from any directory.  Are you meaning that it should be launchable from within debian/ (launched as ./ rules get-orig-source)?
<superm1> because no rules work launching like that
<superm1> everything wants to parse debian/control
<persia> superm1: That, or able to be launched from within ~ when the source is in /usr/src/.  I'm not sure why that requirement is in place: perhaps you can get around it using ORIGDIR := $(shell pwd), and forcing the directory change before actually doing anything?
<superm1> but if you are starting from somewhere else, how are you supposed to find your way to the root of the directory?
<persia> superm1: Perhaps you can do something with $$1?  I'm not sure.
<persia> (or perhaps $$0, rather.  I'm not entirely sure)
<superm1> well more particularly, does this need to be followed so strictly?  I've had several other packages uploaded with a rule that works from the root of the directory
<superm1> thats the most logical place to do it anyhow
<superm1> since it puts it in .. for you to be able to run debuild and such
<superm1> which was my reason to write the rule this way
<persia> superm1: It's a "must" in debian policy, which makes it mandatory.  On the other hand, not everything in the archive is compliant.
<superm1> well the other problem then that comes up 
<superm1> with cdbs
<superm1> running things outside the directory, will include the first .mk files
<superm1> so there is no way to get around that unless you can somehow reference where that directory
<superm1> the way that policy is written, it makes more sense for static urls, rather than bzr or svn or cvs branches
<TheMuso> persia: Thanks. THought I would get to it, but got called away.
<persia> superm1: Hmm...  Interesting.  So the use of CDBS prevents compliance.  in that case, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
<superm1> i'll fix up the other issue regarding the version names, and reupload in that case
<persia> TheMuso: No problems.  I'm currently fussing with ubuntustudio-meta so it will install again (and the NBS stuff can be purged).
<persia> superm1: Great.  Thanks.
<StevenK> persia: Just out of interest, what are you replacing gimp-svg with?
<persia> StevenK: Nothing at all: the plugin is now included in the gimp package (since 2.3.18-1)
<StevenK> Ahh
<StevenK> Neat.
<persia> Does anyone have any good suggestions for testing metapackages on foreign architectures?  I'd like to make sure that I'm not breaking things :)
<superm1> okay if anyone is able to take a look and do a revu on the package persia and I were discussion, mythbuntu-live-autostart, i'd appreciate it: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5996
<TheMuso> persia: -sounds only has 1 advocate on REVU. How was there 2?
<ScottK> persia: My suggestion is to tom sawyer someone with the arch to test it for you.
<TheMuso> If it got uploaded?
<persia> TheMuso: For ubuntustudio-sounds?  Previous guidance indicated that 1 advocate was sufficient for reupload after archive-admin rejection.
<TheMuso> Oh ok.
<crimsun> err, it was rejected?
<persia> ScottK: Great :)  You can take care of i386?
<persia> crimsun: Yep.  There were some leftover "No commercial use" bits in ./README, etc.
<crimsun> hmph.  I wonder where the email went...
<TheMuso> persia: If you want a non-supported arch tested, I'm happy to do ppc.
<persia> crimsun: The rejection email?  I think only tsmithe got it.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.  I'm testing locally now, and will stick the candidate somewhere when I'm done.
<ScottK> persia: What's the package?
<persia> ScottK: On my machine.  I want to make sure it works locally before collecting extra bug reports :)
<persia> (should be 15-20 minutes, max)
<ScottK> OK.  I'll test, but I have Feisty, not Gutsy.  Is that a useful test for you?
<persia> ScottK: Not really.  Do you have a gutsy chroot in which you could try installing it?
<ScottK> No.  Sorry.  I haven't needed one.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Don't you test-build packages?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: In pbuilder, yes.
<RAOF> Then you've got a chroot available :)
<Fujitsu> pbuilder login
<ScottK> Ah. Yes, of course.
* ScottK always forgets about that.
<ScottK> persia: Yes, I have a chroot available.
<ScottK> I don't know how long I'll be here tonight though.
* persia wonders about including qsampler when it doesn't actually do anything without other non-free software...
<ScottK> lionel: I see you touched tftpd last.  I thought you might be interested in looking at Bug #105863.  The last comment looks like it might be enough of a hint to do something with.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 105863 in netkit-tftp "tftpd package broken" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/105863
<persia> ScottK: TheMuso: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ubuntustudio-meta-0707122335/ubuntustudio-meta_0.2.dsc
<ScottK> persia: What's the upid?
<persia> ScottK: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5997
* ajmitch wonders if a hard drive has finally died or something
<persia> Anyone with ia64, sparc, or hppa is also welcome to test, but I'm really not sure it will work :)
<Fujitsu> persia: You need to become a DD.
<persia> Fujitsu: Why?
<Fujitsu> Access to every imaginable arch.
<ajmitch> something which we don't have for ubuntu
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<persia> Fujitsu: I'd be mostly abusing that for Ubuntu work, so I'm not sure I'd use it even if I was a DD.
<persia> (Also, given the prevailing attitude around NMUs, I'd rather work with Debian teams)
<Fujitsu> I'd really think Canonical would be more capable of providing machines than Debian, as the former sort of has a fair bit of funding.
<superm1> well as ppas go active, that will at least help to make sure it builds on the other architectures
<persia> superm1: Build, yes.  Install, not so much.
<ajmitch> superm1: PPAs are limited to specific archs
<Fujitsu> superm1: They're only i386/amd64 at the moment.
<ajmitch> like i386 & amd64
<superm1> oh didn't realize that
<Fujitsu> And I don't think that's changing soon.
<ajmitch> not until they have decent virtualisation on the others
<Fujitsu> persia: I'm sure you can whip up a package to try to install things.
<persia> Fujitsu: An install test in debian/rules?  That's an interesting idea.  I don't suppose you'd like to draft a spec?
<Fujitsu> persia: No, as in you write a debian/rules specifically to try to install a package.
<persia> Fujitsu: That sounds dangerous.  I'd think dh_installtest would be a safer solution, with the call being at the very end of install:
* persia notes that dh_installtest should definitely be implemented outside of debhelper, instead being in a separate dh-installtest package to avoid annoying Debian.
<minghua> I'll just try building a package foo-test that build-depends on foo.
<persia> minghua: That could work, but wouldn't it clutter the archive namespace?
<Fujitsu> persia: Not on PPA.
<Fujitsu> It is meant to be growing a UI soon.
<persia> Fujitsu: Not even for one's own PPA archive namespace?
<Fujitsu> (LP soon, however)
<minghua> persia: I don't really know how PPA works, so maybe that's a bad idea.
<Fujitsu> You'll be able to fairly easily remove packages, AFAIK.
<minghua> LP soon, heh.
* ajmitch wonders why an installation test would be done from within the package system like that - we already have other solutions like autopkgtest
<persia> minghua: Neither I, but if Fujitsu is correct, it would avoid a mess.  Also, one could just have a $lpname-test package that one refreshed with new build-deps for each upload.
<persia> ajmitch: Does autopkgtest run across all the architectures for all of universe?  Is the output somewhere public?
<minghua> Yeah, that would be more convenient.
<Fujitsu> But we've got limited PPA archs for the foreseeable future anyway.
<ajmitch> persia: I don't know, why don't you fetch the package & see?
<ScottK> persia: It built.  I dpkg -i *deb on the lot of them.  apt-get -f intall thought it could fix all the deps except *audio.  I'll let you know when I figure out what it didn't like.
<persia> ajmitch: It's not the code - it's the infrastructure :)
<persia> ScottK: It probably didn't like ardour (FTBFS due to scons)
<ScottK> OK.  I'll check that.
<ScottK> 0 upgraded, 561 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<ajmitch> persia: I'm sure you could whip up something with it
<persia> ajmitch: Ah.  It sounds like one just needs to feed something into debian/tests.  Thanks for the pointer :)
<ajmitch> it's easier than hacking up debian/control & rules & .install files to clog the archive or to have a test fork of every package
<persia> ajmitch: Much easier :)  One just build-depends on autopkgtest and applies some tests to the *installed* package, getting the install for free.
<ajmitch> there's a MIR underway for autopkgtest, and it should be used in debian at some point as well
* ScottK always processes MIR as Mail In Rebate when he first sees it.  
* persia thnks of vodka toasts
* ScottK will now attempt the highly technical feat of ordering groceries online.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Oh noes! Look out for all the evil hackers that my parents seem to be so scared of.
<persia> ScottK: So it was ardour?
<ScottK> Dunno.  My little laptop is still cranking away on the 561 packages to install.
<persia> heh
<ScottK> Question for while I'm waiting...
<ScottK> In my pbuilder chroot I had to install devscripts to get dget.  
<ScottK> After installing, dget complained that dget needed wget or curl installed or it couldn't work.  
<ScottK> Should they be a | depends of devscripts?
<ajmitch> wget is in Suggests
<minghua> devscripts's package description has a detailed list.
<minghua> (of what package you need for each tool)
<ajmitch> yay, my box at home is back
<ajmitch> Jul 13 16:17:16 augustine kernel: [627294.905882]  Out of memory: kill process 12597 (rhythmbox) score 178538 or a child
<ajmitch> Jul 13 16:17:16 augustine kernel: [627294.905929]  Killed process 12597 (rhythmbox)
<ajmitch> 4GB of RAM just isn't enough
<RAOF> Yay for the OOM killer
<persia> ajmitch: Or rhythmbox has a leak?
<ajmitch> persia: no, rhythmbox was a victim, not a perpetrator
<ajmitch> I was compiling stuff in the background, and my ssh connection started to get very slow, and then stopped
<ajmitch> it must have been thrashing around for an hour or so
<Fujitsu> compiz seems to break if I eat up too much swap, and it doesn't like me killing X remotely after that.
<ScottK> OK.  Well it seems to me that stuff ought to work without suggests, but whatever.
<ajmitch> ScottK: if you had everything necessary in Depends, it would pull in a *lot*
<ajmitch> like emacs :)
<ScottK> Ah.  That makes sense.
<ajmitch> hm, mutt
* ScottK is glad to avoid emacs.
<man-di_> moin
<man-di_> Can someone point me at current multidistrotools bzr?
<man-di_> the wikipage points to a non-existant repo
<minghua> Hmm.  I wonder if devscripts really want to suggest ssh.  It may actually mean openssh-client.
<ajmitch> file a bug
<minghua> I know. :-)  But I'm not sure.
<ajmitch> doesn't seem to be filed in debian, at least
<Fujitsu> man-di_: Try http://tiber.tauware.de/~laserjock/multidistrotools/
<minghua> devscripts' suggests list also drag in ruby.
<minghua> Still much smaller compared with emacs, of course.
<man-di_> Fujitsu: thanks, I had it already on some computer, I just dont remember on which one. I was not able to find it anymore.
<ScottK> persia: I don't think I'm going to finish investigating tonight.  I'll look into it in 8 to 10 hours.
<persia> ScottK: That's fine.  Knowing that everything bug ubuntustudio-audio works, and given that things working on i386 tend to be a superset of things working on amd64, I'm pretty confident.  Thanks for the help.
<persia> s/bug/but/
* ajmitch is happy using an amd64, even if there are problems at times
<ScottK> OK.  Do you need me to keep looking?
<persia> ScottK: No need.  I'm not surprised by the ubuntu-audio issue.  I was more concerned with the other packages.  Thanks again.
<ScottK> OK.  Then I'll stop.  You're welcome.
<man-di_> Who maintains multidistrotools for real? I just fixed a bug in it.
<Fujitsu> I think I've been touching it most lately, but that's not much.
<Fujitsu> It hasn't had much maintenance at all, lately.
<ScottK> Anyone feel up to reading a clamav stack trace?  It'd be nice to at least figure out if it's clamav, klamav, or some other package to blame.
<ScottK> man-di_: Looks like you found your man.
* ajmitch hasn't been using mdt
<ajmitch> I still have my own code which predates mdt
<man-di_> ScottK: hehe, thx
<ajmitch> part of that is used for the rc bugs list
<man-di_> Fujitsu: http://paste.debian.net/32630
<persia> man-di_: What about "wontfix"?
<ScottK> It's not a bug, it's a feature request in any case.  
<man-di_> persia: right, I missed that too because I dont saw bugs marked "wontfix" in my list
<StevenK> man-di_: Any news on sear?
<man-di_> ScottK: IMO feature request are bugs too, just wishlist bugs
<man-di_> StevenK: Unfortunately not
<Fujitsu> man-di_: I'll merge that into my branch (http://people.ubuntu.org.au/~fujitsu/multidistrotools) and ensure that's up-to-date with LaserJock's.
<man-di_> Fujitsu: Cool, thank you very much
<ScottK> True, but IMO arbitrary changes in proprietary tools don't cause bugs in open software.  It's more the other way around.
<man-di_> Fujitsu: will you include "wontfix" too or should I write another patch?
<StevenK> man-di_: You said it didn't build due to library transitions, they haven't progressed?
<Fujitsu> man-di_: I'll add it myself.
<man-di_> ScottK: is multidistrotools proprietary?
<man-di_> Fujitsu: thanks
<ScottK> No, but Launchpad is.
<man-di_> StevenK: I still wait for one library transition
<ScottK> The fact that $PROPRIETARY_TOOL changed doesn't make multidistro tool have a bug.  
<persia> ScottK: I'd call this a special case, like code to read a DVD, or code to import MS Office documents: when the intent of the open software is to interoperate with the proproetary software, changes in the latter should be considered bugs in the former.
<ScottK> Sorry.  It's a bit of a sore point.
<man-di_> ScottK: ah, now I understand
<ScottK> Sure.  I'm just bitter.  Don't worry.
* Fujitsu just bites his tongue nowadays.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: you've come a long way :)
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Unfortunately.
<minghua> Indeed ScottK reminds me of Fujitsu in edgy cycle. :-P
<ScottK> Well LP will be free "Real Soon Now" for how long?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: About the same length of time that XML-RPC was coming soon.
<man-di_> GRRR, just hit another issue
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: oh you mean since sydney when I first heard of it?
<man-di_> Fujitsu: maybe next patch coming soon
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: UDU? Was that pre-Breezy or pre-Hoary?
<ScottK> For this particular situation, I think it's unfair for Canonical to drive work onto volunteer devs without consent.
<ajmitch> ScottK: I've never seen a "RSN" promise for lp freedom
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: pre-breezy
<Fujitsu> I've seen an `eventually' promise, `potentially years'.
<ajmitch> which is quite different from 'RSN'
<ScottK> That's how I read sabdfl's comments on the LP should be Free bug in LP.  I'd have to look again to be sure.
<Fujitsu> I like it how they open-sourced a supposed part of Launchpad (ie. storm)... which isn't actually used in LP at the moment.
* ScottK is thinking that maybe there should be a list of Free tools that depend on the LP interfaces and that LP should provide patches of they change the interface.  I'd call that fair.
<ScottK> See, now there's a constructive suggestion that isn't just whining.
<Fujitsu> ... or just give some notice.
<ScottK> Sure.  But they gave us notice on this one (one day).
<ScottK> Good night.  Going to bed.
<ajmitch> night
<Fujitsu> Night ScottK.
* ajmitch is still waiting for the openmoko build
<ajmitch> I obviously need a much faster box
<Fujitsu> man-di_: That patch (modified a little) is now in my branch.
* RAOF needs to rebuild his box.  It got a little bit overwritten by an experimental mythbuntu install :)
<man-di_> Fujitsu: Cool, thx
<Fujitsu> Thanks for noticing and fixing that.
<man-di_> Fujitsu: now I fight with mtd versions2html -h ... failing when packages only in Debian exist yet
<Fujitsu> man-di_: What's the error it gives?
<man-di_> Fujitsu: http://paste.debian.net/32632
<man-di_> Fujitsu: I think it misses to check for a 404 correctly
<Fujitsu> man-di_: Looks like it.
<man-di_> Fujitsu: any idea how to solve this?
<Fujitsu_> Bah, it seems the 'net connection of the network my irssi session is running on has dropped out.
<man-di_> Fujitsu: oh
<white> man-di_: time to organise the svn? :)
<man-di_> white: I just sent you a mail about this
<Fujitsu_> Hi white.
<white> bah greylisting over @debian.org takes ages :(
<white> hi Fujitsu_ :)
* Fujitsu_ kicks Telstra.
<man-di_> white: disable greylisting /me hides
<vorlon> embrace the spam
<white> man-di_: nah, spam count explodes afterwards
<white> man-di_: you do not understand. I intended to make sure you do the work and I just step in and commit, once everything is done ;)
<man-di_> white: hehe
<man-di_> white: I would like to get my printer working first
<white> . o O(and i would like to have an alternative working for foo2zjs ...) :)
<man-di_> white: I still dont know if merging everything into one binary package is really a good idea
<man-di_> white: lets discuss this later, I need to prepare for work
<white> man-di_: ok
* Fujitsu_ wonders what exactly succeeded with that disconnection.
<Fujitsu_> Ah, the network came back up.
<white> Fujitsu_: do you think we get a BSP or just a nice debian/ubuntu meeting to work for the next mid-semester break?
<Fujitsu_> white: I'm fine with either. I have no preference.
<white> well I need to contact etbe anyway next week to bring his laptop back
<Fujitsu_> etbe?
<white> Russell, sorry
<Fujitsu_> Ah.
<Fujitsu> Much better.
<white> Fujitsu: you are struggling :P
<white> bah it is raining here :(
<Fujitsu> white: How?
<white> I want to have at least *one* summer this year (it was raining in Germany and now it is raining here as well)
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Fujitsu> That's Melbourne.
<white> Fujitsu: Melbourne's winter is like German autumn, it is just unfair :(
* vorlon sends white his 38 weather and claims the rain for himself
<white> 38 degree sounds nice
<Fujitsu> 38 Fahrenheit is better.
<white> Fujitsu: btw how is NM going?
<Fujitsu> I'm sitting in the AM-assignment queue.
<white> bah
<Fujitsu> Passed the advocate check 3 months ago tomorrow.
<white> just be patient, it will be a question of time ;)
<Fujitsu> So I've heard.
<man-di_> white: we will have 30 degrees here too, tomorrow and the day after
<white> man-di_: just when i left the country ...
<man-di_> white: the weather knows where to go
<man-di_> ;-)
<white> Fujitsu: I am curious if there is the same discussion in ubuntu than in debian ... Right now debian thinks about a new contributor class, the so called Debian Maintainer (DM) class. Are you familiar with the discussion?
<Fujitsu> I am.
<white> Fujitsu: what is your opinion?
<Fujitsu> I think it makes sense.
<Fujitsu> People are likely to know their own packages, and the right to NMU is a much larger responsibility.
<Fujitsu> I believe it would be good idea to have a DM class.
<white> Fujitsu: how is becoming MOTU implemented into ubuntu?
<persia> white: I haven't seen any of the reverse discussion (allowing dedicated maintainers to upload without full access to the component), but the REVU process seems to be working for us (for now - it's definitely aging).
<Fujitsu> There was a little bit of discussion on a DM-like thing in Ubuntu around The Beryl Incident.
<white> i know that i got some mails from the council asking me about a person's contributions to debian, but i do not what it requires to become a motu
<Fujitsu> white: You work with existing MOTU for some time, getting sponsorship as with Debian. Once you've worked with enough packages and people, you go to the MOTU Council to get approved. There are no strict criteria that I know of.
<white> and are there people thinking about a NM process or stuff like that or is that a no go?
<persia> white: We have an (optional) mentoring process to help people get familiar with the tools.
<white> ok, just two questions left :)
<Fujitsu> I think the consensus was that something like NM takes ages, and might turn people away. We need as many developers as we can get.
<persia> white: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<white> Fujitsu: 1. Would you personally consider leaving the NM process out of frustration, because it takes too long? 2. What would you like to be required for being a DM?
<white> now i feel like conducting a survey :)
<Fujitsu> white: 1) I wouldn't, personally. 2) That's one thing I'm very unsure of.
<white> hmm, thanks anyway. Interesting to get some other opinions
<persia> white: Regarding #2, I'd suggest that anyone who can 1) demonstrate the ability to create a good package, and 2) demonstrate the commitment to fixing bugs for that package should be considered for DM (did it exist).
<vorlon> only committment to fixing bugs, not ability? :)
<white> persia: there were several gr proposals, but they mainly differed in the way that they require different things in order to become one
<white> persia: one was that it should only be for NMs after a certain stage
<persia> vorlon: Yes.  If a maintainer has a good relationship with upstream, and is good at pulling sharply delimited fixes from VCS, should they be penalised for not writing code?
<white> persia: another one was to fully connect it with the NM process and demand that process up to a certain point
<persia> white: That makes sense as well: to demonstrate the knowledge of and commitment to Debian principles.
<white> persia: and the (pretty much) first one was that it can be connected to the NM process, but does not need to.
<white> the last one works with advocating people to become a DM
<white> (though the advocate can also be the AM during the NM process)
* persia has only read early pre-GR blog posting about DM
<vorlon> persia: what ability to fix bugs in the Debian packaging?
<white> persia: i also entered the discussion pretty late and had to catch up on a nearly endless thread
<persia> vorlon: Ah.  Yes.  That is required.  I've assumed anyone who can create a good package can probably fix those :)
<white> that is the third one i explaint: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/06/msg00199.html
<white> the one only for NMs: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/07/msg00008.html
<white> and the one only connected with the NM process, but still with DMs: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2007/07/msg00002.html
<white> it seems that the third one (first one posted in the list above, oh my god i am confusing) will be open for a vote
<persia> white: personally, I think I like the first of those, although I'm unsure about source NEW vs. binary NEW, and the interactions with experimental from the text.  Primary reasoning being that many upstreams provide Debian-format packages, and it would be nice to have those be checked by someone without requiring NM.
<persia> (first posted, #3)
<white> persia: that seems to be the general opinion of the people reading -vote
<man-di_> persia: the problem with "many upstreams provide Debian-format packages" is that most upstreams have no real clue about packaging at all
* persia relaxes, knowing that nothing need be done for Debian to act as desired
<man-di_> persia: I have seen upstreams putting jars directly into /usr
<persia> man-di_: Right.  That's where the initial sponsor/advocate comes into play.  If I made a lousy package, and asked you to sponsor, would you?  I suspect you'd tell me what I needed to fix, etc.
<white> persia: i am curious, did it ever happen that MOTUs got their rights revoked or that they were absolutely not ready, although approved by the council?
<man-di_> persia: thats right
<man-di_> persia: but I still see a problem with people having upload rigths and dont need a sponsor anymore
<Fujitsu> white: The former has never happened, but I'd say the latter has on a couple of occasions.
<man-di_> persia: I also question the quality of some DDs...
<man-di_> perhaps I'm too much of a perfectionist
<white> at least i have to say that i very much like the "DM-Allow" field. I think nobody will come to me for sponsoring anymore, because I would not really consider it after one or two uploads
<persia> white: For the first case, only for expiration or voluntary removal (as far as I know), although some people don't upload anymore.  For the second case, it's really hard to say: there've not been many new MOTUs since MOTU Council was approving.  For earlier MOTUs, peer pressure has been enough to get everyone up to speed (and they probably were beforehand anyway)
<vorlon> white: you wouldn't consider sponsoring after one or two uploads, or they wouldn't need to because you would give them DM rights after just one or two uploads?
<persia> man-di_: Perhaps.  Most of the new upstreams I sponsor for Ubuntu are rather straightforward.  I see about as many issues from new upstreams in Debian (e.g. not updating debian/copyright when upstream changes their website, not updating to latest standards, etc.)
<white> vorlon: no, i would not give them DM rights, because i do not feel that i can trust them after 1 or 2 uploads. And i personally think that the sponsoree expects the sponsor to set the field to yes
<white> at least they will probably be dissapointed, when they do not get that right from a sponsor
<vorlon> some might, I guess
<vorlon> but I guess they might be even more disappointed if someone complains about their package quality and their DM status is revoked
<persia> white: I think that's a cultural thing.  If most sponsors were stricter, or it worked more like some of the teams that are open to non-DDs, it wouldn't be that bad: DM-Allow could be set after someone demonstrated appropriate responsibility.
<white> vorlon: true, but i also think that there will be DDs giving this right pretty early and they will be the favoured target for (totally new) sponsorees
<persia> white: Perhaps not: if people who get DM-Allow too easily lose DM status regularly, either the easy DDs will get stricter, or the DMs will be happier to wait (losing DM status presumably means it's harder to find any sponsor).
<vorlon> well, the only people who can be given that right, under the proposal, are people who already have their keys in the DM keyring
<minghua> Personally I've seen some quite careless sponsored packages, but I won't point fingers on exact package.  I do think if DM process is established, there should be better QA and peer-review than current sponsoring.
<vorlon> and the proposal has provisions for blocking people from advocating folks if they show they have a history of poor judgement
* persia thinks someone porting something like REVU for use by Debian Mentors might help
<Burgundavia> persia: doesn't something like that already exist?
<vorlon> persia: mentors.debian.net...?
<persia> where DM keyring ~ ubuntu-universe-contributors keyring
<white> persia: mentors.debian.net is free for everyone to upload
<persia> Burgundavia: Yes,  It exists, but 1) it doesn't have automated checks, 2) there isn't a collaborative sponsorship policy with public comments, and 3) it's not keyring restricted.
<Burgundavia> right
<minghua> vorlon: mentors.d.n doesn't have comment system, and relies on -mentors list, AFAIK?
* persia thinks a lot of discussion about packages on mentors happens off-list
<minghua> persia: I won't consider REVU keyring-restricted either.
<vorlon> minghua: true
<white> vorlon: maybe i should just wait and after DM is in place for a while, we'll see if it was good or bad
<persia> minghua: It is: uploads are rejected for non-members (not that it's really hard to get in the keyring or anything).
<vorlon> white: well, presumably you should also vote your conscience in the GR on the question first
<white> true :)
<minghua> vorlon: I consider the biggest advantage of REVU is the comment system, so that you see the history of the package, other people's comments, and debdiffs easily.
<minghua> persia: Has anybody's REVU key been revoked or refused to be added?
<Fujitsu> It's an open team.
<persia> minghua: Nope.  Never.  Still, the code's there, and it could be used for web-of-trust analysis, if one chose.
<Fujitsu> What web-of-trust?
<minghua> persia: Speaking of that, is there an easy way to get the REVU keying now?
<Fujitsu> I'm pretty sure most of those keys won't have any sigs.
<Fujitsu> minghua: You just join ubuntu-universe-contributors, and wait for the key to be synced.
<Fujitsu> *keyring to be synced
<persia> Fujitsu: Um.  There's a "strong set" of people with GPG keys, for whom there are at least two trust paths to everyone else in the "strong set".  These people are members of the web-of-trust.  Others just have some collections of random bits that look like keys.
<minghua> Fujitsu: no, not "get into", but "get", i.e., export all the public keys in the keyring so I can check the package signatures on my computer.
<persia> minghua: I don't know of it: check the revu code (branch is in LP).
<vorlon> minghua: for my part, grabbing the current version of the package from the archive with apt-get source for debdiff before sponsoring isn't too much of an obstacle, I find that careful review *of* the debdiff takes much longer
<Fujitsu> minghua: Oh, right, oops.
<minghua> vorlon: REVU are mostly for NEW packages only right now.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, most of the members of the REVU keyring will not have any sigs, so there's very little WOT to analyse.
<vorlon> minghua: then I don't see how debdiffs are of significant benefit to a reviewer, personally :)
<persia> vorlon: Agreed: the debdiff review is the hard part, but for new upstreams, or new packages, having something like REVU is much easier.
<minghua> vorlon: But I agree on your point about careful review.
<Fujitsu> vorlon: Differences between different revisions of new packages/
<persia> Fujitsu: True, but if the code was ported for use with the DM keyring (which requires at least one DD signature), it would be useful.
<minghua> vorlon: Useful when you are not the only reviewer.
<persia> vorlon: REVU also allows multiple uploads with the same revision, so the revision included in the archive includes all the fixes, rather than the history of the reviewing.
<vorlon> fair enough
<minghua> vorlon: MOTU atmosphere basically encourage a hopeful (i.e. NM counterpart) to jump into IRC channel or list and say "I have a new version that addressed the previous comments, can anyone review again?"
* StevenK sighs.
<StevenK> Ogre has a M4 configure check that checks for SSE.
<ajmitch> that's annoying
<StevenK> It turns it off for PPC, and sets it to yes for every other arch.
<vorlon> hahaha
<ajmitch> it'd be much nicer to check at runtime
<ajmitch> hello vorlon 
<StevenK> So that's going to work on Sparc, m68k ...
<vorlon> hi-ho
* StevenK waves to vorlon
<minghua> And it actually works better for Ubuntu IMO, because the most knowledgeable people usually don't have much time doing reviews.  So multiple reviewers catch more problems.
<StevenK> vorlon: Are you jumping ship and working here instead? :-)
<white> StevenK: go away ;)
<ajmitch> StevenK: do you think the MC would approve him?
<vorlon> StevenK: just spying for the enemy
<StevenK> Heh
<white> ajmitch StevenK: he is not shareable
<ajmitch> vorlon: redhat?
<vorlon> ajmitch: there are so many rejoinders that I can't bring myself to pick
* minghua is glad ajmitch didn't think of microsoft.
<vorlon> StevenK: so is this the same ogre in unstable?
<vorlon> (where it's built on 7 archs -- 5 of those should fail to compile any SSE code thrown at them)
<StevenK> vorlon: Yu
<StevenK> Yup, even
<vorlon> so something must work around it elsewhere?
<StevenK> It failed on ia64 and sparc here.
<StevenK> Actually, no it isn't.
<vorlon> then I guess it's not the same as in unstable, because ia64 and sparc both built :)
<StevenK> 1.4.3-1 is in unstable, 1.4.2-2 is in Gutsy
<vorlon>    * Added proper check for determining whether to use SSE.
<vorlon> ;)
<StevenK> Ah ha.
* StevenK requests a sync and stops caring.
<persia> StevenK: Always remember to check debian first :)  Lots of these are already fixed.
<vorlon> there ya go, now you have free time to help me unbreak qt4's atomic operations code on alpha
<StevenK> But Ubuntu doesn't support Alpha ....
<StevenK> :-P
* vorlon makes a note in his spy journal
* minghua knows another package that builds on Ubuntu/ia64 but not on Debian/ia64.
* StevenK sighs at packages.debian.org
<vorlon> minghua: that's not a fair trade, though, I can just guilt lamont for those anyway
<Fujitsu> Why does it manage to lag behind so much?
<StevenK> I have a few suggestions, the first few being unprintable.
<minghua> vorlon: I know.  And ia64 is essentially abandoned in Ubuntu anyway.
* ajmitch knows of another package that doesn't build on ubuntu or debian, and has a patch to file
<lucas> vorlon is everywhere, pff :)
<ajmitch> it's like debian people are taking over
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<vorlon> lucas: I don't know what you're talking about; I have always been here
<Hobbsee> hi ajmitch 
<Fujitsu> Morning Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> hi Fujitsu 
<lucas> vorlon: yeah, but I never noticed. that's what makes you a good spy ;)
* lucas is disappointed by the amount of feedback on his "usertagging debian bugs" proposal on ubuntu-devel@ ...
<Hobbsee> lucas: maybe people are thinking?  who knows
<persia> lucas: At least for my part, I'm sufficiently of two minds not to have a real response.  It might help for general publicity, but it doesn't really help me get my patches applied: either the DD is Ubuntu-freindly, in which case it usually gets applied in the next update, or they aren't, and I need to convince them that the fix would benefit Debian (or get it applied upstream first).
<minghua> lucas: I proposed the same thing for MOTU science group about a year ago, didn't work out.
<lucas> persia: by advertising the list of patches, it could help a bit, I think
<lucas> or help others second the patch
<lucas> but I agree that it's not going to make a huge difference
<persia> lucas: Perhaps.  I'm not familiar enough with Debian peer practices to understand how that works: hence not sending a response.
<lucas> minghua: why didn't it work out?
<lucas> a year ago, usertags were harder to use (you couldn't add them when submitting a bug, you add to do it later)
<minghua> lucas: No response what-so-ever.  I didn't have time to do it myself.
<minghua> lucas: Yes, I agree the timing is probably better now.
<lucas> you wanted to usertag old bugs? or just new ones?
<minghua> lucas: The ones that have a corresponding bug in LP.  Either we reported it back to Debian, or we found it's already reported in Debian.
<lucas> ok
<minghua> lucas: Basically I wanted a way to show Debian that MOTU science team is helping Debian.
<lucas> yeah, that's my goal as well
<persia> Personally, I think it works better for collaboratively maintained packages, as the culture is closer.  Debian-Python and Debian-Games are good examples of groups that welcome and encourage MOTU involvement (which means, most of those packages are just syncs (excepting dh_iconcache)).
<StevenK> That will change, now that dh_icons is taking over.
<persia> StevenK: Yep.  DebianImportFreeze hadn't already passed, I'd be chasing that right now :)
<persia> (if)
<minghua> lucas: Also, I think another reason it didn't work out is I didn't propose good tags.  It probably would work better if I had a concrete plan.
<lucas> minghua: do you have any URL for your proposal? was it on IRC or by mail?
<minghua> lucas: http://lists.tauware.de/pipermail/ubuntu-science/2006-November/001965.html
<minghua> lucas: I'll eventually write a reply to your proposal, but I need time to think (and perhaps more research on usertags).
<minghua> Usertags doesn't have the best documentation. :-(
<StevenK> persia: Anything happening with ubuntustudio-meta?
<persia> StevenK: I'm waiting for TheMuso to report on powerpc.  I'm likely to upload in the next hour or so if I don't hear anything...
<lucas> minghua: I've documented what looks needed on the wiki pag
<lucas> e
<StevenK> persia: Fair enough, thanks.
<minghua> lucas: Thanks, I'll definitely read the wiki page.
* StevenK ponders stealing a merge from dktrkranz
<superm1> could someone archive this upload that's on revu, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5995
<TheMuso> persia: SOrry, this has been a full on day for me, will do now.
<persia> TheMuso: No worries.  StevenK wants there to be no cruft, but I'd prefer that ubuntustudio-meta generated packages that could be installed :)
<TheMuso> yup
<persia> TheMuso: Just a note: you'll need to manually install the ardour package before installing ubuntustudio-audio, or it breaks.
<minghua> superm1: Done.
<superm1> thx minghua 
<StevenK> persia: Not none, just less. :-)
<persia> StevenK: Really?  I thought your goal was none, and that this was just today's item.
<TheMuso> persia: Do you mean the binary package of ardour in the archive?
<TheMuso> i.e not ardour 2?
<StevenK> persia: Well, none is the ultimate goal, but may not happen. :-)
<Hobbsee> hi TheMuso 
<persia> TheMuso: No, the new source package.  I've migrated ardour-gtk to ardour, under the assumption that this will be fixed soon.
<TheMuso> Hey Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> superm1: done
<superm1> hmm doubly archived :)
<TheMuso> persia: So I need to build a copy of ardour before I install audio?
<persia> TheMuso: Either a real copy or install "ardour" rather than "ardour-gtk" from the current set (which isn't as nice, etc.).
* TheMuso is confused
<persia> TheMuso: nevermind.  The "ardour" binary was apparently dropped long, long ago.  You can either build the current sources, use your old ardour2 package, or install a fake package named "ardour" for testing.
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> persia: Give me 45 mins or so to build ardou2 ppc, and I'll have an answer for you.
<persia> TheMuso: Sure.  Thanks.
<Hobbsee> yay, no more packages held back
<StevenK> Hobbsee: That's the end of curl?
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> well, ooo works on kde
<StevenK> persia: Why does ubuntustudio-meta need ardour?
<persia> StevenK: Because it's a metapackage, and apt is set to require Recommends from meta-packages on install (although they can later be removed).
<Fujitsu> apt installs recommends on everything, doesn't it?
<persia> Fujitsu: Nope, only for meta-packages (unless the user configured it differently).  Perhaps you're thinking of synaptic, adept, or aptitude?
<Fujitsu> How does it identify metapackages? Section?
<Hobbsee> persia: only metapackages in main
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes
<persia> Hobbsee: Are you sure?  I thought I saw a changelog indicating you fixed that.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, but it didnt work.
<Hobbsee> persia: that part of the code doesnt seem to do wildcards
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  Right then.  Still, it's probably best practice for metapackages to verify that Recommends can be satisfied before committing.
<Hobbsee> persia: sorry?  i dont understand you
<persia> Hobbsee: I've made changes to ubuntustudio-meta, and TheMuso is building ardour to verify installation on powerpc, and StevenK wondered why it needed ardour, and I think it's good to verify the recommends are satisfied before I commit the changes to the repository.
<Hobbsee> persia: ah right.  is it in universe, or main?
<persia> Hobbsee: universe
<Hobbsee> the ubuntustudio-meta?
<Hobbsee> persia: right, then it will not install recommends by default
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: universe
<Hobbsee> persia: it's to do with component overrides, if you were wondering.
<persia> Hobbsee: I see.  Looking again, that would explain why joejaxx made everything a dependency.  I should really learn more about germinate before making another metapackage change.
<Hobbsee> persia: as in, a metapackage in universe will be overridden, to have Section: universe/metapackages, which does nto fit metapackages
<Hobbsee> persia: learning about everything would help, yes.  if that's actually possible :)
<TheMuso> heh
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  Which means it doesn't quite have the desired affect.
<Hobbsee> persia: exactly
<persia> Regarding learning about everything: I firmly believe that Aristotle was the last person for whom that was possible.
<Hobbsee> persia: and you cant just feed it a wildcard, so that the code will match *metapackages
<TheMuso> I'm sure you people saw the ubuntustudio cd building thread, I actually agree with Colin, and I am sure some of you would as well./
* persia looks again
<TheMuso> re canonical building ubuntustudio cds, and packages having to be in main.
<Hobbsee> maybe...
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: ??
<Hobbsee> it all depends.  otherwise, tehy tend to keep separate archives, and we can never merge changes across all flavours
<lifeless> hiya all
<Hobbsee> well, not as easily
<Hobbsee> hiya lifeless 
<minghua> Colin is on the side that build shouldn't know about universe?  I am on that side.
<TheMuso> minghua: Same.
<minghua> s/build/build script/
<persia> TheMuso: With the current archives, I'd have to agree as well.  Getting everything into main isn't going to happen (jack didn't make it during UDS), so external building probably continues to make sense.
<Hobbsee> all that makes sense, yet they are duplicating a lot of effort there.  i dont know.
<minghua> But I do think it would be nice for Canonical to have a separate instance of script running which know universe, to help building semi-official CDs.
<minghua> Having everything needed in main is not practical IMO.
* persia thinks that derivatives have a hard time of it: either it's entirely separate, in which case it's a heap of work to keep in sync, or it's supported, which means getting Canonical buy-in or otherwise staffing support.
<Hobbsee> persia: xubuntu is "supported" as in, on canonical hradware, abut has no canonical employees on that team
<Hobbsee> erk.  i can spell, i really can!
<persia> Hobbsee: True.  That falls under "otherwise staffing support".  It helps that most of the necessary components are well supported upstream, and that there's a lot of overlap with Ubuntu.
<Fujitsu> Xubuntu is all in main, and never had completely unsupportable stuff such that it couldn't be moved to main.
<Hobbsee> right
<persia> There's probably a subset of audio things that could be in main, but it's not enough to do much (most musicians aren't programmers).  The same is currently true for video editing.  ubuntustudio-graphics might make it, but it's just a collection of tools.
<white> Fujitsu: say something cool and fancy about a new release
<white> anyone here, give me some fancy sentences ...
<minghua> I was also thinking of building localized remix/derivative CDs on canonical servers.
<Hobbsee> white: "this is a fancy sentence"
<minghua> And it would be hard to push all needed stuff to main there as well.
<persia> minghua: For now, unless nearly everything you want is in main, you'll do better with an external build.
<minghua> persia: I know.  That's one of the reason I never tried to start a Chinese remix.
<TheMuso> If canonical would disclose a little more on how they build CDs...
<white> Hobbsee: bah
<white> Hobbsee: i am not much of a press person, so i never know what to answer these guys
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Aren't the instructions public?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: To modify yes.
<Fujitsu> (I admit I've never had cause to look, but I presumed they were)
<TheMuso> joejaxx had to figure out how to do CD builds for UbuntuStudio mostly by trial and error.
<Fujitsu> What fun!
<TheMuso> Ad even then, there were little things that still weren't quite right, which we had to use dirty hacks to get around.
<minghua> TheMuso: So has the decision about building from universe been made?  I didn't follow that thread.
<TheMuso> Actually, repos of the cd build scripts are available, but you have to know how to put it all together.
<TheMuso> minghua: afaik no.
<TheMuso> The last thing was Colin saying "I'll do it if I have to"
* persia thinks it depends on the shape and polish of UbuntuStudio as the release nears
<Hobbsee> white: we definetly dont seem to have a process for revoking MOTU rights.
<Hobbsee> white: i didnt get much traction with creating one at UDS, either.
<persia> Hobbsee: Are social pressures not enough?  I would think that repeatedly having ones uploads reverted would lead to improved behaviour.
<Hobbsee> persia: ahhh...so we can revert dodgy uploads too, with a nice changelog message....
<white> persia: revert in terms of uploading a higher version with revoking the change?
<StevenK> It's hard to revert an upload that's hit the archive.
<persia> white: Yes.
<Hobbsee> persia: the trouble is *finding* the dodgy uploads, too
<Hobbsee> as in, as quickly as possible, before things break too much
<persia> Hobbsee: Ah.  True.  Perhaps we do need a removal policy then.
<white> does a MOTU have access to vital libraries?
<Hobbsee> white: define "vital libraries" please?
<persia> white: Define vital.  Anything not required for main is MOTU managed, and some of those libraries might be considered vital for some applications (e.g. libjack)
<white> Hobbsee: a library were more than 2 other applications depend on, for instance
<white> s/were/where/
<persia> Certainly that.  There are lots of cases with more than 10 rdepends.
<StevenK> There is plently of those in univer.
* StevenK sighs, and gives up on typing.
<white> so there is no restriction for universe uploads done by MOTUs?
<Hobbsee> white: MOTU can upload to anything in universe and multiverse.
<Hobbsee> white: correct
<white> ah ok
<Hobbsee> white: apart from social ones, which people will tend to growl at you, if you upload a section that you shouldnt
<persia> white: Exactly.  It's somewhat like a continuous 0-day BSP, without NMU considerations.
<white> oh
<Hobbsee> (like, i will tend to whinge at you if you upload something to do with kde, without going thru the debian QT KDE team)
<persia> Hobbsee: You don't always though, as long as it doesn't directly impact kubuntu
<Hobbsee> persia: true, i dont have the time to do all of them
<Hobbsee> persia: i do want to look at shoving more of our changes back into debian though, for all MOTU, not just the debian qt kde team.
<persia> Hobbsee: I think that's a great idea.  beuno has been reviving DCT, and I'm seeing a lot more syncs recently.  Perhaps we can make it all the way: there's not very many changes in universe that are ubuntu-specific.
<Hobbsee> DCT?
<Hobbsee> persia: that'd be teh long term goal, yes.
<Hobbsee> persia: bring it up at the meeting tonight, please
<StevenK> What time is the meeting?
<persia> StevenK: Tomorrow morning (I think 9:00 in Sydney)
<persia> Hobbsee: You won't be there?  It's your agenda item :)
<StevenK> Hrm. I'm usually sleeping at 9am on a Saturday.
<Hobbsee> i'll likely be asleep
<Hobbsee> who put it at that time?
<persia> The time was discussed at the last meeting: I believe the idea was to encourage attendance from people in other timezones.
* persia feigns innocence harder
<Fujitsu> Isn't it 0000Z?
<ajmitch> StevenK: how about 10am?
<StevenK> Still sleeping. :-)
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  Did I do my math wrong?
<ajmitch> lazy
<Fujitsu> That's 1000 AEST.
<StevenK> ajmitch: I get up at 0730 every week day, so I like to sleep in on weekends.
<Fujitsu> We're +10, except when we're +11.
<Fujitsu> I get up at 0700 every day. I just can't sleep in.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yes, but you're insaen
<StevenK> Fujitsu: It's a remarkably easy skill to pick up.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: True, true.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Doubtful.
<persia> StevenK: It depends.  If you've never slept in, you can develop the skill, but once you've forgotten how, it becomes difficult to return.
* Hobbsee has nothing concrete to add, anyway
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  I'm not sure it would get more than nods anyway - I think most people who would attend the meetings agree.  beuno's work to organise sending patches and opening ITPs is probably a better focus for interested parties anyway.
* persia adds DCT to the list of things to tell Contributors to do once more freezes set in...
* Fujitsu must do some DCTing again soon.
<StevenK> Can anyone expand that?
<Hobbsee> i'm assuming it's distro common tools, but no one's told me
<persia> StevenK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DCT
<Fujitsu> Debian Collaboration Team.
<Fujitsu> Distro common tools!?
<persia> Hobbsee: From where do you get that expansion?
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, im' thinking of a rename of MDT.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Hobbsee> persia: guessing, because no one had actually expanded it when i asked before, so i guessed on context
<ajmitch> yay, freezes
<StevenK> persia: You tell lies, there's no ubuntustudio-meta upload. :-)
* ajmitch wonders who'll get onto the motu-uvf team
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: you
<Fujitsu> Not me.
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: no, I won't
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Definitely.
<Fujitsu> s/:/,/
<ajmitch> no, because I haven't nominated myself
<persia> StevenK: "(17:22:13) TheMuso: persia: Give me 45 mins or so to build ardou2 ppc, and I'll have an answer for you.".  It's an extended definition of the minute :)
<Fujitsu> Ah
<StevenK> Heh
* man-di just applied to become member of DCT
<cromo> so, what about his bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/125131
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125131 in flashplugin-nonfree "Need to be updated for new stable version (9,0,48,0)" [Undecided,New]  
<cromo> it affects a lot of people...
<white> Fujitsu: DCT -> tell me more
* Fujitsu -> dinner.
<persia> cromo: If you're preparing a package, you'll want to request sponsorship by subscribing the sponsors team.  If you want to discuss the bug, you'll want to do so in #ubuntu-bugs.
<gnomefreak> persia: i tested upstream flash new version seems to work fine. i was worried about the regresstions they had but looks good to me
<Hobbsee> cromo: asac and someone else were looking into that for gutsy last night
<Hobbsee> calc: your connection isnt behaving today, is it?
<persia> gnomefreak: Great.  Are you prepping something for review?
<gnomefreak> should be as simple as changing the md5sums since its still the same named tarball upstream
<gnomefreak> persia: i dont know flash/bash that well or i would
* persia thought there was a problem with md5sums due to upstream geodistribution of varying files
<cromo> Hobbsee: thanks for notice
<gnomefreak> i have source just need to figure it out
<cromo> persia: I am actually not using ubuntu, though my friends do and so I _do_ care about this bug as they do ;-)
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: it's not - the md5sum changes, depending on which mirror it is, iirc
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: at least, that's what we were finding last night
<gnomefreak> persia: 9.0.31 and 9.0.48 tarballs are same name like they removed 9.0.31 from the tar and added 9.0.48 instead
<cromo> not a good explainaiton, excuse me that ;-)
<persia> cromo: Understood.  It's just that this channel is good for work-in-process, whereas setting the relative priority of bugs and discussing them is better done in #ubuntu-bugs
<cromo> I see, didn't know that
<cromo> thanks
<gnomefreak> so the scripts are looking for md5sum of 9.0.31 but 9.0.48 is there instead
<cromo> gnomefreak is right though, they updated the package an left it at the same URL
<cromo> *and left
<persia> gnomefreak: I remember seeing reports of 3 or 4 different md5ums from the upstream servers, depending on the location from which it was downloaded.
<gnomefreak> our script should only have to change md5sums since everything else is same
<gnomefreak> thats adobes screw up i thin its thier problem from beginning
<gnomefreak> but they wont fix it im sure
<persia> gnomefreak: Perhaps not, but if we could get a list of the 3 or 4 acceptable md5sums, and verify that they were all the right package, perhaps we could work around their breakage (with slightly less security).  Check the #ubuntu-devel log from about 20 hours ago for some background.
<asac> persia: can someone give me the new md5sum of flashplugin?
<asac> i still get the old one here
<asac> :(
<cromo> I was actually thinking about including the plugins inside the deb file instead of scripting the downloading process? Please note, that as for very recent version Adobe also provides rpm packages for RH.
<persia> asac: URL?
<cromo> so they'd probabaly agree on that
<asac> persia: i don't have it
<cromo> http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2007/06/new_installation_method.html
<asac> would have to use google :)
<persia> cromo: That's the download site?
<cromo> nope
<cromo> it's adobe's bloag about linux flash plugin development
<cromo> they just introduced a rpm package with flash
<persia> There's a link to the tar.gz.  checking...
<cromo> so what I suggest is to contact them and cooperate on creating a deb package for flash
<persia> asac: I get 821cc72359a937caef85bb4cc74ef5cd
<gnomefreak> why not grab tarball and host it on one of our servers (will stop this issue now and in future)
<persia> gnomefreak: No license for redistribution?
<gnomefreak> hmmmmmm
<gnomefreak> i thought that was for changing it
<cromo> I am pretty sure adobe will introduce their deb package soon - it's been requested in comments 
<gnomefreak> iw ill have to read thier license
<persia> gnomefreak: It might be: I didn't check, but rather am remembering old discussions.
<persia> TheMuso: Are you still building or testing?  My enter key is looking really tempting :)
<pygi> morning folks
<pygi> persia, thanks, it built
<persia> pygi: Great.  Don't forget to update the bug.
<pygi> persia, yup, going after it now
<TheMuso> persia: SOrry, dinner called me away.
<persia> TheMuso: That's OK.  How's it looking?
<StevenK> Uh, dinner is supposed to be dead, which means it *can't* call out...
<TheMuso> well the build was going when I left, so just getting things installed now.
* StevenK smirks
<TheMuso> in a gutsy ppc chroot.
<TheMuso> StevenK: hardy hardy har.
<persia> StevenK: Many people eat live food.  It's considered a delicacy :P
<StevenK> TheMuso: Oh, you secretly like my bad puns. :-P
<StevenK> persia: I'd rather not think about that ...
<TheMuso> persia: Looking good so far, but I need to work out how to install recommended packages
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: you cant, unless you fix apt
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Right.
<persia> TheMuso: There shouldn't be any - all of *recommends* are 0-byte files.
<TheMuso> Well packages are listed as recommends.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: ah right, then that's a bug in your package
* persia looks again, even more confused about germinate
<TheMuso> i haven't touched meta
<Hobbsee> persia: it's not germinate that you're looking in, i think
<Hobbsee> er, that you awnt to
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: oh, the packages *are* listed as recommends
<persia> Hobbsee: ubuntustudio-meta uses germinate to populate Depends: and Recommends: for the binaries.
<TheMuso> yes there are some packages listed under recommends yes
<Hobbsee> persia: oh good.
<TheMuso> ouch 370mb
<TheMuso> 380 even
<TheMuso> Pumpernickel: Well its not complaining about missing deps at least.
<persia> TheMuso: I can't find any recommendations with dpkg -e and looking at the control files.  Are you perhaps thinking of packages recommended by the dependencies of the metapackages?
<TheMuso> ugh persia ^^
<TheMuso> persia: Ah of course.
<StevenK> persia: There's a new germinate going to be published in ~ 5 minutes
<StevenK> TheMuso: That's what a local mirror is for. :-)
<persia> TheMuso: That's my key concern.  At this point, I don't mean to change the installed list really, just to update for all the cruft.
<TheMuso> persia: Right, looks like there shouldn't be a problem, minus binary ardour packages.
<persia> StevenK: Hmmm..  I think I'd rather build-test against the new one than try to beat it: otherwise the package might not behave properly for the next person to touch it.
<persia> TheMuso: Great.  Now I just need to test against 0.31, and it's all good.
<TheMuso> ok
<TheMuso> persia: I'll leave the download/install running, just to be safe.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.
<gnomefreak> persia: i tried to upgrade flash and built debs once i get ff installed in chroot ill test it and ill beablet o tell asac (who is working on it) if it works
<persia> gnomefreak: Great.  Thanks for helping.
<gnomefreak> yw we will see if my fix fixed it (it built) :)
<gnomefreak> :)
<gnomefreak> thats not it
* persia wonders how long it usually takes between an upload and the source being available in the repositories.
<gnomefreak> couple of hours if the archive team pushes it to buildd than hits repo
<persia> gnomefreak: I'm not waiting for build, just for it to go from queue:done to sources.gz
<gnomefreak> ah shouldnt be that long than i wouldnt think
<Fujitsu> persia: The publisher runs hourly, at 3 minutes past the hour. It takes about 40 minutes to run.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  Do the packages live somewhere else public prior to the publisher run?
<Fujitsu> persia: They do not.
<gnomefreak>     File name: libflashplayer.so
<gnomefreak>     Shockwave Flash 9.0 r48
<gnomefreak> hmmmm
* persia prepares to wait another 10 minutes
<gnomefreak> it plays
<Fujitsu> I believe they're attempting to speed it up so we can have half-hour days soon.
<gnomefreak> its installed
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: Yay :)
<gnomefreak> Fujitsu: not yay :(
<gnomefreak> Download done.
<gnomefreak> plugin changed, not trusted
<gnomefreak> The Flash plugin is NOT installed.
<gnomefreak> that needs to be fixed than
<Fujitsu> Ah, lovely.
<gnomefreak> but it did install and it works
<persia> Fujitsu: half-hour days?  I thought a "day" was two runs.
<Fujitsu> cron.daily runs hourly at the moment.
<Fujitsu> cron.daily is the publisher.
<persia> Ah.  Amusing that :)
<Fujitsu> Rather.
<Fujitsu> I was somewhat confused when I first saw that.
<asac> gnomefreak: just update the md5sum which is in flashplugin-nonfree debian/postinst
* gnomefreak wonders if that is because i needed to change somehting else
<gnomefreak> asac: i did
<asac> gnomefreak: if you want to test the packaging as well
<persia> I suspect there's probably also a cron.24hours or something, as I wouldn't imagine all the daily scripts should run that often.
<gnomefreak> both of them
<asac> gnomefreak: ah cool
<gnomefreak> asac: it built and installed but dpkg said it didnt install
<gnomefreak> oh and works
<asac> gnomefreak: if it works, report a bug with with debdiff and subscribe universe-sponsors i guess
<asac> dpkgsaid it didn't install?
<gnomefreak> right
<asac> sounds wrong
<gnomefreak> see MT channel for the 3 lines
<asac> what do you mean by that?
<TheMuso> persia: At installing phase, still looks good. Don't expect there to be problems.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: Filing sync bugs without subscribing anybody is fairly useless.
<joejaxx> someone pinged me in here?
<persia> TheMuso: Great.  The new germinate just published, so I'm preparing another test build now.  If the debs end up the same, I'll upload.
<TheMuso> ok
<persia> joejaxx: I'm updating ubuntustudio-meta, and your name came up when we were talking about all the trouble you had building the CDs for ubuntustudio.
<joejaxx> you are updating it?
<persia> joejaxx: Yep.  Dropping gimp-svg, migrating ardour, cleaning up the vcs and dssi plugins, etc.  No real changes, just cruft cleanup to help drop some of the old NBS packages.
<joejaxx> hmm
<persia> joejaxx: Changelog entry is http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29771/
<persia> Excellent.  There's no changes from the new germinate.
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: the maintainer is already subscribed.
<Q-FUNK> i.e. bryce is the main guy that needs to know.
<bryce_> Q-FUNK, Fujitsu, which needs sync'd?
<Fujitsu> -amd, I believe.
<Fujitsu> Bug #125116
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125116 in xserver-xorg-video-amd "please sync from Debian unstable to Gutsy (universe)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125116
<Q-FUNK> bryce_: yes, amd
<bryce_> ok
<soren> Anyone with shell access to revu? I need something removed from incoming..
<persia> soren: Sure.  Which package?
<soren> persia: storm_*
<soren> persia: There should be a file and a half there :)
<persia> soren: two and a half actually.  manually rejected.
<soren> persia: Super. Thanks.
<mruiz> hi all
* soren -> lunch
<mruiz> Is it possible to add a debdiff to REVU? 
<Fujitsu> mruiz: What do you mean?
<Fujitsu> REVU is for new packages...
<mruiz> and upgrades 
<man-di> mruiz: file a bug in launchpad and include your debdiff
<mruiz> thanks man-di 
<DarkSun88> Hi all
<DarkSun88> ..
<mruiz> hi DarkSun88 
<Hobbsee> hi dholbach 
<dholbach> hey Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> :)
<ScottK> Good morning all.  Interesting backscroll today.
<zul> hey
<ScottK> FWIW (from the overnight - for me) discussion, Debian Python Modules Team seems to work very well with Ubuntu.
<persia> ScottK: I'd say that most of the teams do, even.
<ScottK> That's the only one I have any experience with.
<xxxxx1> hello all
<persia> StevenK: Any objections to me chasing libsilc?
<persia> StevenK: nevermind.  I can't read.
<StevenK> Heh
<StevenK> Although the ABI/API and include files have all changed.
<persia> StevenK: No worries.  I just had some time and felt like processing something painless.  I'll go back to looking at RC bugs :)
<StevenK> SILC isn't looking painless anymore. :-)
<persia> Perhaps that needs a definition then..  "painless" as in: I don't need to think about whether it's a good idea, or what the feature should be, but rather just keep compiling it until the patch finally works, and the binaries run.
<persia> (with bonus painlessless when it's in a language I've previously used)
<StevenK> Ahh, painless, as in grunt work
<persia> Exactly.
<persia> Syncs are painless, and useful, but don't come with the same sense of satisfaction that comes from a good patch.
<StevenK> Agreed
* StevenK checkouts ggz-grubby SVN so he can cobble a patch together.
<StevenK> Woot, ggz-grubby uses CDBS.
<azeem> oh, is this the CDBS-haters party here now as well?
<azeem> or are you really delighted? :)
<Hobbsee> azeem: no, we like cdbs here :)
<StevenK> azeem: It means adding a patch system to debian/rules is one whole line.
<elmargol> dpkg-source: error: source package has two conflicting values
<elmargol> it can't find the error
<persia> elmargol: Could you paste your command and the output to a pastebin?  The guidance you receive will require knowledge of the affected package and the arguments you used.
<StevenK> No, the error is in debian/control.
<StevenK> elmargol: Can you pastebin your debian/control?
<elmargol> sure
<elmargol> http://pastebin.com/m3445f91a
<StevenK> Hrm.
<StevenK> It isn't jumping out at me, sorry
* Fujitsu can't see it either.
<elmargol> dpkg-source: error: source package has two conflicting values - miro and democracyplayer
<elmargol> thats the error message
<Fujitsu> Ummm.
* persia still wants to see the command and the error message in context
<StevenK> Oh, I know that is.
<StevenK> elmargol: Okay, your debian/control says 'miro' is the Source, but the latest entry in debian/changelog says 'democracyplayer
<StevenK> ' is.
<elmargol> persia: i just to dpkg-buildpackage
<elmargol> StevenK: ahh cool
* StevenK sighs at cdbs. Yay for it wanting patches to have extensions.
<elmargol> it works now thx
<elmargol> How can I restore a deleted file using svn?
<Fujitsu> elmargol: svn revert filename
<elmargol> thx
<mruiz> ScottK: I read your last comment about u-u-s. I subscribed them because dholbach said me. But, anyway I won't do it again.
<ScottK> OK.  Not a big deal.  It just means people end up looking at stuff twice.
<ScottK> persia is the MOTU process guru...  persia, is there any reason in our process to subscribe UUS to a bug about a new upstream that's already uploaded to REVU?
<mruiz> ScottK, thanks ;-)
<persia> ScottK: Mostly because it only requires one advocate, and it's not new, so U-U-S is presumably interested.  The old process used to be to attach the .dsc, diff.gz, and URL to orig.tar.gz to the bug, but I think REVU is easier.
<elmargol> svn diff shows the revision numbers compared. is it possible to have the dates of the files?
<elmargol> I see most patches have the dates
<StevenK> svn log will tell you the date of the revision numbers
<elmargol> having --- platform/gtk-x11/platformcfg.py.orig	2007-02-03 21:43:13.000000000 +0100 in stead of --- platform/gtk-x11/platformcfg.py     (Revision 4869)
<StevenK> Ugh. silky's upstream haven't updated it for the new SILC API.
<mruiz> bye all!
<CrummyGummy> Hi all, Can I build a feisty package on a edgy box? It says there's no script. Can I download it somewhere?
<persia> CrummyGummy: The easiest way is to prepare an edgy chroot, and run aptitude dist-upgrade to get feisty.  If you want to be extra clean, build a new feisty chroot in the upgraded chroot.  Alternately, you could try downloading the feisty debootstrap, but I'm not sure that works properly (it did for me, but that's no guarantee).
<CrummyGummy> persia, Thanks, I'll start at option 3.
<ryanakca> It's possible to request a sync while a package is still in Debian NEW?
<persia> ryanakca: Yes, but it's not likely to be processed until after Debian NEW is done, and it makes life easier for the archive-admins to wait until after that before filing the bug.
<ryanakca> ok
* ryanakca will wait :)
<ryanakca> persia: can you archive aoeui in REVU please?
<persia> ryanakca: For future reference, about the only time that's a good idea is when it's two days until the new packages freeze, and the new package is required to meet a feature goal for the current release.
<persia> ryanakca: Sure.
<persia> ryanakca: 5992 archived.
<ryanakca> thanks
<calc> so anyone here have moderator access on motu-council that could let my email through i forgot to post it with my subscribed email
* ryanakca sets out to find a new package
* ryanakca thinks mailing lists should let email threw based on GPG signature, instead of email address alone
<xxxxx1> some MOTU on?
<xxxxx1> i need a sponsor for: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6004
<xxxxx1> I just removed the PDF based on pitti's request and you need a reupload
<xxxxx1> ops
<xxxxx1> I just removed the PDF based on pitti's request and I need a reupload
<bryce_> Q-FUNK, Fujitsu, still waiting on the -amd sync, bug 125759
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125759 in xserver-xorg-video-amd "Please sync xserver-xorg-video-amd (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125759
<Q-FUNK> bryce_: waiting for...?
<bryce_> ...it to be sync'd
<Q-FUNK> ok
<Q-FUNK> thanks for that
* calc has applied for core-dev now
* calc hopes StevenK doesn't hold his ooo comments against him ;)
<Hobbsee> calc: argh!!!!
<Hobbsee> calc: try having an openoffice that builds every time...
<calc> Hobbsee: it seems to at least partially be the buildds fault
<Hobbsee> calc: sure sure
<calc> it keeps failing on ppc for example due to timeout
<StevenK> calc: I am, and will.
<calc> StevenK: heh
<calc> they are moving it to build on a different ppc
<Q-FUNK> bryce_: unauthenticated connection?
<calc> Hobbsee: the first build 5ubuntu1 was by doko
<calc> Hobbsee: 5ubuntu2 was good but debhelper was fubar
<calc> Hobbsee: 5ubuntu3 is fine now
<bryce_> Q-FUNK: huh?
<Hobbsee> calc: sure sure.  you just keep breaking it
<calc> of course the build failure, retry work thing is very annoying and i have no idea what causes it
<calc> eh?
<Q-FUNK> bryce_: do you see my incoming query?
<bryce_> oh
<calc> i've only uploaded two versions of ooo to main so far and only one was broken and it was debhelpers fault :P
<doko> Hobbsee: don't complain, fix it ;-P
<Hobbsee> doko: i dont have the bandwidth, nor the machine for that.  and i'm still somewhat sane
* doko doesn't believe the latter ... *duck and run*
<calc> i wish i could replicate the build failures, it always builds fine for me
<StevenK> Heh
<calc> seems the retry work failures tend to be the 65280 failures
* ScottK wonders if calc waiting until he made OOO build might not have been a better plan...
<xxxxx1> ScottK, PM
<ScottK> Not now.  Busy with other stuff.  Thanks for checking first.
<calc> ScottK: it does build
<calc> ScottK: it appears to be buildd issues or very tricky timing issues of some sort
<calc> ScottK: since it builds on the same buildd fine after a retry
<ScottK> very tricky and OOO do seem to go together.
<xxxxx1> i need a sponsor for: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6004 can some MOTU upload for me?
<calc> and the issue existed apparently long before i took over ooo
<ScottK> calc: Don't confuse me with facts.
<calc> hmm some people having similar issue claim increasing the ram in the system helped
* calc logs into buildd to see how much it has
<DarkMageZ> how would one go about generating a ddeb?
<calc> if ronne runs out of memory something is wrong
<calc> it has 4GB ram and 6GB swap
<geser> 10 GB is not enough to build OOo?
<geser> DarkMageZ: look at pkg-create-dbgsym
<DarkMageZ> geser, thanks.
<calc> geser: no it doesn't use that much
<calc> geser: somewhere < 1GB is plenty
<calc> geser: i build it on my laptop just fine
<ScottK> xxxxx1: PM?
<AndyP> build depending on imagemagick in an architecture: all package gives "build-depends-without-arch-dep" - do i need to fix that? if so, what's the best way?
<man-di> AndyP: put imagemage inot Build-Depends-Indep instead of Build-Depends
<AndyP> man-di: thanks
<Jazzva> Hello... I'm having a problem with testing the package under pbuilder. First I compiled it in feisty and everything was ok. Now I'm trying to compile it in gutsy and the pbuilder says it can't locate package qca-dev. I checked at packages.ubuntu.com and qca-dev is there... Does anyone know how to fix this?
<azeem> maybe your chroot doesn't include universe in sources.list?
<azeem> eh, base-tarball
<Jazzva> azeem: How can I check that?
<azeem> maybe with pbuilder login
<azeem> I'm not using pbuilder, sorry
<Jazzva> azeem: Ok, I'll give it a try.
<doctormo> hello everyone
<doctormo> I have a project I need to package up as a deb, with dependancies; it's originaly a dist-utils python install but that no longer works since I can't install the full rpm database under ubuntu.
<ryanakca> how do you enable universe in pbuilder?
<doctormo> So I need advice and help on getting a new install script made specificly for deb
<doctormo> it has no configure file, or makefile
<Jazzva> ryanakca: I would like to know that to...
<ryanakca> Jazzva: nevermind, found it :)      pbuilder-gutsy update --override-config --othermirror "deb http://archives.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy universe"
<ScottK> doctormo: Does it have a setup.py?
<doctormo> ScottK: yes
<ScottK> Then it's easy.
<Jazzva> ryanakca: Great :D... That's exactly what I needed. :)
<doctormo> ScottK: I may be able to predict what you about to say...
* ScottK waits to see.
<ScottK> doctormo: What version of Ubuntu are you running?
<doctormo> ScottK: 7.04
<Jazzva> ryanakca: Just add sudo :).
<ScottK> OK.
* ScottK still waits to see what your guess was.
<ryanakca> ScottK: don't need to...
<ryanakca> ScottK: oops, wrong person
<ryanakca> Jazzva: ^^
* doctormo considers that he created the setup.py and knows about creating rpms and using alien
* ScottK shudders
* ScottK doesn't know doctormo and so doesn't dislike him sufficiently to recommend alien.
<doctormo> hehe
<doctormo> I'm all ears
<man-di> doctormo: there are a lot of upstreams using setup.py and a lot of the debian packages packaging them
<ScottK> No, what I would suggest is start with a simple python package that's already done
<Jazzva> ryanakca: Hmm, really :unsure:? I just tried without sudo and it said " cannot create directory `/var/cache/pbuilder/build//934': Permission denied".
<man-di> doctormo: there are ways to just use the setup.py from debian package
<ScottK> doctormo: You might apt-get source pyyaml and have a look at that.
<ryanakca> Jazzva: you have a different setup than I do. Try finding the old pbuilder howto on the wiki
<doctormo> man-di: yes an interesting idea since a standard rpm or deb will die on having the wrong version of python than that which created them
<ScottK> doctormo: Actually the Debian packaging tools support packaging for multiple versions.
<Jazzva> ryanakca: Ok. Is it better then the new one?
<ryanakca> Jazzva: I have a pbuilder-dapper, pbuilder-edgy, pbuilder-feisty, -gutsy and -sit
<ryanakca> -sid
<ryanakca> Jazzva: umm, well, it has the scripts to set up individual pbuilders for each distro/version
<ScottK> doctormo: I'd suggest that between the packaging-guide and looking at how I did pyyaml, you'll be able to get most of it figured out.
<Jazzva> ryanakca: Yeah, I see that's only mentioned here. Guess I'm gonna take a look at that howto :).
<man-di> doctormo: please read also the new python packaging policy
<ryanakca> Jazzva: hunt around for a pbuilder-distribution.sh
<Jazzva> ryanakca: Found it :)
<ScottK> man-di: The package I pointed him at uses the new policy, so if he uses that as a guide, he should be OK.
<doctormo> man-di: do you have a link to the new python packaging polocy?
<ScottK> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/python-policy/
<ScottK> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy is also useful.
<doctormo> ScottK: so PKG-INFO, debian/* are all a part of the wrapper?
<ScottK> Yes.
<man-di> ScottK: the policy might contain additional infos for him
<ScottK> You'll also want https://perso.duckcorp.org/duck/cdbs-doc/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<ScottK> Right.
* ScottK had thought the Ubuntu Packaging Guide covered Pyhon policy, but it appears I was wrong.
<doctormo> I'm so glad you guys know what your doing with dist-utils, I've been pulling my hair out
<doctormo> ok so another question: the program on install creates copies of dmi info, it's a little script which is currently done by setup.py this won't be effected right?
<ScottK> You will need to make sure it gets installed in the right place.  Usually it does, but you'll need to check.
<doctormo> any rules for /var/local files and /etc files?
<ScottK> CDBS will install files where setup.py says they go.  
<ScottK> The simplest thing to do if setup.py points the file to the wrong place is patch setup.py.
<ScottK> doctormo: You'll want http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/fhs/fhs-2.3.html to know where files are supposed to be installed.
<doctormo> ScottK: yep they go there, just confirmed it with that link above. thanks
<doctormo> Any info on how to fill out the classifier info? it seems like it's not arbitaryu
<ryanakca> "pbuilder-gutsy update --override-config --othermirror "deb http://archives.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ gutsy universe" should enable universe in a pbuilder, right?
<Hobbsee> ryanakca: should do..
<zachtib> hey guys, I'm one of the lead devs of Deluge, and we're working on our new release, 0.5.3, now.  UVF for gutsy is 8/16.  What's roughly the latest we can get out a new release and still be fairly assured that it will make it into gutsy?
<bluekuja> zachtib, deluge-torrent uses libtorrent rasterbar, if Im right
<zachtib> blueyes
<zachtib> bluekuja, yes
<bluekuja> zachtib, is it included into deluge source?
<zachtib> yes
<bluekuja> that's really bad
<bluekuja> for security issues
<zachtib> i know, but we only do that b/c the rasterbar lt isn't in ubuntu's repo
<bluekuja> I know
<bluekuja> I lead motu-torrent team
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> and I'm working on that
<zachtib> trust me, i'd love to get LT out of our source tarball and use the system one, burt first, libtorrent needs to make it into ubuntu
<bluekuja> zachtib, yeah
<bluekuja> I've talked with rasterbar devels
<bluekuja> and they dont want to change lib name
<bluekuja> e.g soname and so on
<zachtib> plus, at the moment, we're using an unstable version of LT .13 that we've added our own patches and modifications to
<zachtib> debian was planning to package it as libtorrent-rasterbar
<bluekuja> zachtib, as I said I'm working on that
<bluekuja> for debian too
<bluekuja> :)
<bluekuja> with some other guys
<bluekuja> brb
<zachtib> anyways, as far as my original question, when should we have the new release ready to be safe getting it into gutsy
<man-di> zachtib: now
* man-di hides
<zachtib> man-di, lol, yeah, we're looking at an RC this upcoming week, and we're working as fast as we can
<zachtib> but 0.5 just missed it's chance to make it into feisty, and so I don't want the same thing to happen with this release
* Hobbsee ponders getting onto the uvf team.
<zachtib> this new release doesn't add any new features, but we've made some good progress on performance, and cpu usage is much improved, so obviously I'd like this to be in the repos
<Hobbsee> zachtib: are you pushing this into debian, and syncing?
<Hobbsee> or is this going directly into ubuntu?
<man-di> Hobbsee: what does "uvf" means?
<Hobbsee> man-di: upstream version freeze
<Hobbsee> man-di: ie, the exception team
<man-di> Hobbsee: ah, thx
<bluekuja> back
<Hobbsee> man-di: :)
<bluekuja> zachtib, anyway I'll let you know
<bluekuja> join #ubuntu-motu-torrent when you want
<bluekuja> for more infos
<bluekuja> ;)
<zachtib> bluekuja, ok... if we have our release out before the end of July, are we pretty much good?
<zachtib> cause i think that's very possible
<bluekuja> zachtib, getting rasterbar in will take months
<bluekuja> ;)
<bluekuja> I'll open a security bug for deluge
<zachtib> bluekuja, but our current package doesn't need it.  the deluge pkg in universe now builds against our internal LT
<bluekuja> I don't know who accepted it in
<xxxxx1> ScottK, PM?
<bluekuja> with a lib shipped
<bluekuja> zachtib, oh k then
<bluekuja> :)
<zachtib> it's been in for a while
<bluekuja> I know
<bluekuja> the sponsor did not check
<bluekuja> that
<bluekuja> also for debian
<zachtib> well, as i said, i'd love to do it the real way, but for that to happen we'd need libtorrent 0.13 released and packaged
<zachtib> but until then, this is the only way to get deluge included
<bluekuja> yup
<bluekuja> we'll see then
<bluekuja> we are stoned now
<bluekuja> ^^
<zachtib> lol
<bluekuja> :)
<doctormo> ScottK, man-di: I must have missed something, I can't find how you compile it into a deb now
<man-di> run the 'debuild' command
<man-di> (from package devscripts)
<doctormo> ah there must be a specific format for changelogs
<man-di> doctormo: yes
<man-di> doctormo: use the 'dch' tool to create new entries more easily
<Q-FUNK> is there an established method for grepping PACKAGE_VERSION and PACKAGE_TARNAME out of ./configure ?
<doctormo> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/class/python-distutils.mk'.  Stop.
<doctormo> man-di: I reformed the existing changelog into the right format
<doctormo> debuild is asking me for clearsign gpg keys... I'm sure I have them when I signed up for ubuntu launchpad; the question is how to tie them up to debuild?
<gnomefreak> doctormo: you can pass -k(keyid)
<gnomefreak> you can also add a line to ~/.bashrc give me a minute ill see if i have it set on htis pc
<doctormo> thanks
<gnomefreak> export GPGKEY=3C1C3C2A
<gnomefreak> replace mine with yours ofcourse
<doctormo> remind me where I would find my key stored on my machine?
<gnomefreak> doctormo: ~/gnupg but if you added it to your LP page it will be there(easier to locate) try running gpg --list-keys <your email with key>
<gnomefreak> doctormo: example gpg --list-keys gnomefreak@bleh.com
<gnomefreak> that is usful if you have a bunch of keys saved but you can use gpg --list-keys and it will list all keys you have saved
<geser> gpg --list-secret-keys will list all keys where you have also the private key
<gnomefreak> !gpg
<ubotu> gpg is the GNU Privacy Guard.  See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto and class #8 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts
<gnomefreak> ^^ good document
<gnomefreak> the first one.
* gnomefreak hasnt seen the classroom one in a while
<norsetto> persia:  hi Emmet, how is it?
<AndyP> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6005 is ripe and juicy now, criticise/advocate at your convenience
<norsetto> I have the usual newbie question = whats the best way to include a change in a config.in file: generate a patch with changes to the whole chain or include automake etc. in rules?
<martoss> hi folks,
<martoss> i try to build konsole from sources
<martoss> make: *** obj-x86_64-linux-gnu: No such file or directory.
<martoss> what's missing there?
<imbrandon> sudo apt-get build-dep konsole
<imbrandon> looks like
<doctormo> cool it built, thank you guyws
<martoss> imbrandon, ok everything should be there
<martoss> can i just build konsole and not entire kdebase?
<martoss> i am doing dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc 
<martoss> atm
<Jazzva> Umm, I
<Jazzva> Umm, I'm having a problem with pbuilder. I added manually the universe repo to sources.list and it still can't find the qca-dev package.
<imbrandon> martoss, no
<imbrandon> not easily
<Jazzva> The pbuilder is set for gutsy. In pbuilder set for feisty the package built with no sources.list changes.
<Jazzva> Any ideas?
<AndyP> Jazzva: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#head-5e61fa0f52f7f2442fb20f074813bd691744460b
<Jazzva> AndyP: thanks
* AndyP grumbles at the crazy random anchor names on the wiki
<Kmos> Jazzva: you need to save the session
<Kmos> pbuilder login --save-after-login
<Jazzva> Kmos: Yeah, did that.
<xxxxx1> ScottK, PM?
<Q-FUNK> is there any way to make 'git' display commit dates as CCYY-MM-DD ?
<ScottK> xxxxx1: Fine
<qball> Seveas still mia
<ScottK> Can mpeg encoder firmware be packaged separately or does it have to go in the kernel package?
<ryanakca> hmm.. does 'developpers' on https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel mean 'Ubuntu Developers' or 'Ubuntu Developers and Members' ?
<ScottK> It means MOTU and core-dev.
<ScottK> There is devel-discuss where everyone can post.
<superm1_> ScottK, out of curiosity, what mpeg firmware are you speaking to?
<ryanakca> ScottK: ok
<ScottK>  bug 99107
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 99107 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Feisty ships with OLD cx2341x mpeg encoder firmware" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99107
<ScottK> superm1_: ^^^
<Q-FUNK> can anyone think of a tool to convert a date from time_t to iso8601 ?
<ScottK> Oops.  Not that one.
<ScottK> This one bug 90723
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 90723 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Please include bluebird firmware for dvb-usb devices" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/90723
<ScottK> So it wasn't a mpeg encoder.
<superm1_> ScottK, it should go into the newly formed linux-ubuntu-modules I would say
<ScottK> dvd-usb.
<superm1_> that's used in gutsy
<ScottK> superm1_: Could you come over to #ubuntu-bugs.
<superm1_> sure
<ScottK> The author of it is one there now.
<xxxxx1> bye all
<superm1_> ScottK, you doing revu's this afternoon?
<ScottK> Not particularly.  
<ScottK> I may have time if you have something easy.
<superm1_> well i think it's something, easy, you can look and see though :P
<superm1_> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5996
<superm1_> oh and ScottK, should mention to you the ubotu magic you can do with pipes, rather than triggering a bot command, and then mentioning someones name afterwards.  you can do something like this instead:
<superm1_> bug 99107 | ScottK 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 99107 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Feisty ships with OLD cx2341x mpeg encoder firmware" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99107
<superm1_> well that didn't work as it was supposed to... it works with the ! commands at least
<ScottK> superm1_: Personally, I'd Not advocate based on lack of debian/README.Debian-source (looking at persia's comments).  I think you ought to fix that.
<ScottK> superm1_: I think you meant to do that on #ubuntu-bugs anyway.
<superm1_> i'll have to read up on policy to double check on that
<superm1_> as persia mentions that he couldnt find a reference to it
<superm1_> no other big standout things though, right?
<ScottK> The Developers Reference having it is good enough for me.
* ScottK quit looking (my time is limited, and so if I know going in I'm not going to advocate ...)
<superm1_> ah okay
<superm1_> thanks ScottK :)
<superm1_> actually i don't even see that section persia was pointing out about a README.Debian-source in section 6.7.8.2 of the developer's reference, http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-repackagedorigtargz
<ScottK> I remember it being there too.  I also note  the Developers reference is ver. 3.3.9, 16 June, 2007 - The requirement may have been recently deleted.
<superm1_> Ah.
#ubuntu-motu 2007-07-14
<persia> superm1: Sorry.  The bit about debian/README.Debian-source apparently was recently changed (I was looking at 3.3.7).  The sentence changed from "must contain detailed information how the repackaged source was obtained, and how this can be reproduced, in README.Debian-source or a similar file" to "must contain detailed information how the repackaged source was obtained, and how this can be reproduced in the debian/copyright.".  My apologies, and y
<superm1_> ah not a big deal persia.  thanks for double checking on that
<superm1_> was there a second half to that statement though, you left it at "My apologies, and"
* persia dislikes buffers and intended to end with "My apologies, and you probably want to fix debian/copyright :)", but hadn't actually looked at REVU to validate that statement.
<superm1_> Ah.  debian/copyright does not describe that it was gathered from revu atm, but there is a X-Vcs-Bzr
<superm1_> in debian/control
<superm1_> i wasn't positive if that would be considered adequate
<superm1_> an identical method was used in my previous upload, mythbuntu-default-settings
<superm1_> actually the same debian/copyright
<persia> superm1: Not according to the Developers Reference 3.3.9, but there's heaps of things in the archive that don't follow that yet (and I've been recommending debian/README.Debian-source until now).  For the older stuff, consider cleanup when you have time.  For new stuff, put it in debian/copyright.
<superm1_> will do.
<superm1_> persia, this is very good that you're helping to make more apps compliant :)
<tristanbob> why is there no #ubuntu-security channel?
<tristanbob> I want to ask a question about remote desktop "vino"
<superm1_> i'll re-uplaod with a small bit in debian/copyright before i grab another revu from someone
<keescook> tristanbob: generally we just talk about it in here.
<keescook> what're you wondering?
<tristanbob> I believe that vino encrypts the password with DES, but doesn't encrypt the session - is this still true?
<tristanbob> keescook: also, vnc authentication is a single 8 character pasword, no username - correct?
<keescook> tristanbob: right, I'm pretty sure the session is still not encrypted.
<tristanbob> ok - thanks - I am going to blog about it
<superm1_> tristanbob, if you would like the session encrypted, look into the -via switch of vncviewer
<superm1_> you can tunnel the session through ssh easily with it
<tristanbob> superm1: how easy?
<tristanbob> I am aware of the technique
<tristanbob> but why is it not in the gui?
<superm1_> i'm not sure why it's not in the gui
<tristanbob> ubuntu is supposed to "just work"
<superm1_> i use it daily though
<superm1_> like this: vncviewer localhost:0 -via uesr@HOST
<superm1_> that will connect to an ssh server on port 22 of the machine host, and forward its :0 session of VNC
<superm1_> persia, is this the sort of thing you are referring to for a better idea of debian/copyright: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/mythbuntu-live-autostart-0707131850/mythbuntu-live-autostart-0.1/debian/copyright
<persia> superm1: That looks good to me.
<mohammad> ScottK: hello, thank you for reviewing Zekr. I cannot see why in your opinion the issue of MOZILA_FIVE_HOME is important. could you please give me some clue?
<superm1_> alright good.  well if any other MOTUs are up for a revu, i've got one up here now http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6008
<geser> superm1_: wouldn't build-depending on python (instead of python-dev) be enough?
<geser> or does it need the python-headers?
<superm1_> Well I guess it doesn't need the headers
<superm1_> This was my first python app that i hand wrote and packaged, so i wasn't too sure
<geser> you could also add a XS-Vcs-Browser field point to codebrowse on LP
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<superm1_> geser, okay i'll double check on the python-dev / python debacle and then add that field
* persia wishes there was an easy way to distinguish between packages maintained with VCS in Debian and packages maintained with VCS in Ubuntu only.
<geser> another small note: please line-wrap this long line in the manpage
<geser> persia: doesn't looking to the vcs location help?
<minghua> persia: Good point.  Maybe XS-Ubuntu-Vcs-*?
<persia> geser: For alioth or launchpad, yes.  For other sites, not so much.
* minghua also knows that his own packages are not VCS maintained in Ubuntu.
<persia> minghua: Maybe, but my dream would also involve patching apt to only verify I really want to download when it is an Ubuntu VCS, and the transition would take a while...
<minghua> So if an Ubuntu users follow those VCS links, he/she will be surprised.
<persia> minghua: In some cases (and it's not currently clear which).
<minghua> persia: Are you talking about tools like Daniel's "bzr unpack"?  I am not familiar with those.
<persia> minghua: Even just apt (try apt-get source for something with VCS links)
<minghua> persia: Is that an Ubuntu-only feature?
* geser looks on the agenda for the MOTU meeting and decides to move to bed
<persia> minghua: Maybe, but I don't see anything in the changelog (then again, there are some irregularities in the changelog)
<minghua> persia: Thanks, I'll test.
* minghua fires up gutsy pbuilder.
<superm1_> alright i've updated things per geser's recommendations if anyone else would like to take a look: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6009
<Toadstool> heya everybody
<Fujitsu> Yay, beryl and its close relatives are gone!
<Fujitsu> Hi Toadstool.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: 
<Nafallo> ?
<Toadstool> hey Fujitsu!
<Toadstool> how is it going?
<Fujitsu> beryl* has been removed.
<Fujitsu> Not bad, just woke up.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: but the new thing is still there? :-P
<Toadstool> Nafallo: replaced by compiz-fusion yeah
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Indeed, but it isn't /quite/ as crashy.
<Nafallo> ehrm. not compcomm or something like that?
<Fujitsu> ... wow. beryl-core has 132 open bugs.
<Fujitsu> Compiz Fusion is the proper name.
<Fujitsu> compcomm was only temporary, and lasted in Ubuntu for a whole couple of days, I believe.
<Nafallo> I'll just throw that info to /dev/null again. will never understand those projects. worse than soap operas.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
* Fujitsu wishes malone had that mass-status-changing wishlist bug implemented.
* TheMuso syncs daily CDs.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Finally taking the plunge?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Not exactly. I always keep up with daily CD images.
<TheMuso> Just in cas.
<TheMuso> case
<Nafallo> anyone ever ordered stuff from Dell? :-)
<Fujitsu> I bought a laptop from them 18 months ago.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: good. when you checked the status page for your order. was the date it originally said the order should be delivered when it was actually delivered? :-)
<Fujitsu> No, it was delivered a couple of days later.
<Nafallo> GAAH!
<Fujitsu> I think they updated the ETA a couple of days before it was meant to come, though.
<Nafallo> I should call them and point out it's important that it will actually land on the 20th :-)
<minghua> Nafallo: In my case it was one day earlier, I think.
<Nafallo> minghua: that would be much better indeed :-)
<Nafallo> minghua: Tribe-3 on the 19th ;-)
* TheMuso looks at the non-existant MOTU meeting agenda.
<minghua> I am in US though, so my case is not comparable with Fujitsu's, I suppose.
<Nafallo> minghua: US, AU, SE ;-)
* minghua thinks Nafallo chooses the most irrelevant place to live for the purpose of extrapolating from his and Fujitsu's data.
<minghua> (unless Dell ships to moon)
<Nafallo> minghua: tssss. "choose" ;-)
<Fujitsu> Oh, right, meeting.
<Nafallo> minghua: I will be moving to London in a month or so... ;-)
* minghua envies that European people can move to another country easily.
* Fujitsu ponders rejecting 186 bugs.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: DOIT! :-D
* Fujitsu works out how to extract the bug numbers from the page.
<Toadstool> er is the meeting worth staying at work a little longer? the agenda is quite empty
<sistpoty> hi folks
<Fujitsu> Hi sistpoty.
<sistpoty> hi Fujitsu
<ajmitch> crap, motu meeting soon, no time for me to go out & get breakfast
<ajmitch> there's nothing to discuss, so it should be fast
<Toadstool> hopefully
<Toadstool> hi ajmitch 
* Fujitsu is eating breakfast at the moment.
<sistpoty> hi ajmitch and Toadstool
<Toadstool> hey sistpoty 
<zul> hey ajmitch 
<ajmitch> hi
<minghua> persia: That "apt-get source" using Vcs-* field is Ubuntu specific, bug 115959.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 115959 in apt "apt-get source should check the Vcs-Bzr field" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115959
<persia> MOTU Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now.  All are welcome
<zul> oh joy he just firgured out how to scream
<Fujitsu> zul: Hahaha.
<TheMuso> Morning RAOF.
<RAOF> Morning TheMuso 
<TheMuso> RAOF: Meeting in -meeting if interested.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Thanks.  I won't be around for too long, though
<minghua> persia: Is it okay for me to wait 4 hours to start drafting minutes?
<persia> minghua: I don't have an issue with that.
<ScottK> minghua: 10% pay cut if you don't start now.
<TheMuso> heh
<sistpoty> haha
<minghua> persia: Thanks for the instructions.  I'll start later tonight (-0500).
<minghua> ScottK: No problem, I'll take the pay cut. :-P
<persia> minghua: Great.  Thanks again.
<ScottK> See and I save us money too.
* TheMuso does not like that quit message.
<Fujitsu> It gets annoying after a while.
<TheMuso> Yup.
<persia> TheMuso: The trick is to complain before he leaves (but I always forget)
<Fujitsu> And it has been quite a while.
<RAOF> A while ~= 2 times
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, that's the worst part.
<ScottK> persia: Am I being to hard on zekr about the setup script thing?
<persia> ScottK: I really don't know.  I suspect that it wouldn't work in Debian due to xulrunner-dev vs. firefox-dev, but that's just a guess.  I also think it's ugly, but that's just a personal preference.  It needs review by someone more familiar with Java packaging, in my opinion.
<Fujitsu> Do we have anyone familiar with Java packaging?
<leonel> we need  sun-java6 u2 ... :)
<persia> Fujitsu: Depends on the definition of have.  A very active member of the Debian Java team is often here, and the MOTU Java Growers might contain such people.
<ScottK> man-di is familiar with Java packaging.
<ScottK> Hi leonel. Did you see clamassassin got backported today.
<leonel> yes !
<leonel> was great 
<ScottK> Now that I'm authorized to approve backports, it should go a lot smoother.
<persia> ScottK: Congratulations!
<leonel> that's great  ScottK 
<Fujitsu> ScottK: That's nice and convenient :)
<ScottK> Yes.  
<ScottK> Thanks.
<Kioshen> ScottK: grats
<sistpoty> ScottK: btw.: there seems to be s.th. wrong with current clamav (couldn't dist-upgrade to it successfully)... known issue?
<ScottK> Archive Admins still have to buy it, but it's easier.
<sistpoty> congrats btw. ;)
<ScottK> sistpoty: Using the 22-7?
<ScottK> kernel
<ScottK> sistpoty: Bug 124141 is fixed in 22-8. That's the only thing I know about.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124141 in linux-source-2.6.22 "kernel bug when installing clamav-freshclam" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124141
<sistpoty> ScottK: not quite sure, but I think so
<sistpoty> (during dist-upgrade=
<sistpoty> ScottK: nope. kernel didn't throw anything, but dpkg did
<Fujitsu> That's not it, then.
<sistpoty> (damn, I should keep logs)
<ScottK> Hmmm
<persia> sistpoty: Doesn't dpkg keep a log by default?
<sistpoty> no idea?
* persia hunts
<minghua> /var/log/dpkg.log
<sistpoty> nope, just looked, doesn't show errors of interest
<minghua> not very useful for this kind of error, though.
<minghua> sistpoty: What is the status of the problematic package (dpkg -l <name>) now?
<sistpoty> iirc it was the postinst? of clamav-freshclam bailing out on dist-upgrade
<sistpoty> minghua: I purged it, and now I could easily reinstall it
<minghua> I see.  Tough to reproduce, then.
<persia> sistpoty: Try installing the old version, and then upgrading
<minghua> persia: May depend on versions of other packages.
<persia> minghua: These things can be forced, and usually don't matter for postinst error tracing
<sistpoty> imo this failed: upgrade clamav-freshclam 0.90.3-1ubuntu1 0.90.3-1ubuntu2
<minghua> persia: Oh, I meant "the triggering of the bug may depend on the versions of other packages".
<persia> minghua: Ah.  Good point.
<ScottK> IIRC there was a change in the postinst in there.
<minghua> I agree it's worth trying reinstalling the old version and try upgrading again though, if someone wants to hunt it down.
<minghua> But I'm not going to bother.
<minghua> Unless it's my package, of course.
<sistpoty> imo it doesn't matter that much if the upgrade path from feisty -> gutsy is fine
<minghua> These problems are just too common in development branch.
<ScottK> Yes.
<minghua> sistpoty: Agreed.
<persia> minghua: Package ownership is an interesting concept, given the nature of MOTU :)
<ScottK> paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29879 is the diff
<ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29879
* sistpoty looks
<ScottK> Debian did it newal=`which newaliases || true` - Dunno what difference that makes.
<sistpoty> ScottK: shouldn't make a real difference imo, given the [ -x $newal ] 
<ScottK> When I merged 0.90.3-2ubuntu1 I used the Debian version.  Not sure why you didn't get that.
<persia> Doesn't postinst run under -e?  If this gets passed to the subshell, you'll break in the subshell, rather than coming back to postinst and finding the || true
<minghua> persia: Sorry, I should have said "my Debian package".
<persia> minghua: No worries :)
<ScottK> persia: Dunno.  That's why I ask.  shwarma came up with the Ubuntu version of the change.
<minghua> ScottK: I think without '|| true', when newaliases is not in $PATH, postinst will fail.
<minghua> Yep. for example:
<minghua> $ which non-existent; echo $?
<minghua> 1
<minghua> And all maintainer scripts have "set -e".
<sistpoty> minghua: doesn't fail in my dash at least
<sistpoty> (i.e.  x=`which non-existent` || true)
<persia> sistpoty: Is that under -e?
<sistpoty> persia: yes
<minghua> sistpoty: I am sorry.  I don't have much context.  What is the debdiff ScottK posted for?
<sistpoty> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29879/
* persia wonders if perhaps the subshell doesn't import -e, instead expecting the parent to break if the error isn't handled.
<sistpoty> clamav-freshclam... only looked at this as well
<minghua> sistpoty: With || true, it won't fail.  I am assuming the debdiff is from current Ubuntu package to another one.
<sistpoty> I thought it would have been from my previous version to newer one... but it shouldn't fail anyway when retrying the new debdiff (in case the old failed=
<ScottK> minghua: That was clamav 0.90.3-1ubuntu1 0.90.3-1ubuntu2
<sistpoty> s/new debdiff/new package/
<sistpoty> but as I said, I'm not even entirely sure if it was clamav-freshclam which failed or another clamav package
<minghua> ScottK: I see.  Then that diff shouldn't cause any problem.  But is there a similar change in postrm?
<ScottK> The postinst does 'set -e'
* ScottK looks
<ScottK> postrm does not attempt to remove the alias, so it doesn't come up.
<ScottK> minghua: ^^
<persia> ScottK: How about prerm?  Shouldn't the alias be cleaned up at some point?
<ScottK> Nope.  It just stops the freshclam daemon.
* persia thinks that's a bug - purging a package should clean up everything
* ScottK would tend to think so, but the policy does not appear to be clear.
<ScottK> persia: Go read the policy on purging.  It just talks about files.
* ScottK agrees, but has been told this is a controversial matter in Debian.
<minghua> ScottK: Before I go grabbing the package -- why -1ubuntu1 and -1ubuntu2?  I see -2ubuntu1 already in archive.
<persia> ScottK: I know.  The reason for this is that it's really hard to implement dropping users and groups in a safe manner, as they may own files that are not purge targets (tmpfiles, logfiles, etc.)
<sistpoty> please, don't put too much energy in this particularly bad report ;)
<ScottK> minghua: That's another question I had for sistpoty.
<minghua> Okay, then it's a bad report against old packages. :-P
<ScottK> sistpoty: Not all the upgrade bugs I saw had kernel errors in them.  I may have duped a real issue to the kernel bug thinking it was all the same.
* minghua decides to give up.
<sistpoty> ScottK: when was it uploaded? I use a german mirror and lag one day
<ScottK> sistpoty: July 10.
<sistpoty> then I misinterpreted dpkg.log... sorry
<minghua> sistpoty: Should use aptitude, then you at least have a readable package version history. :-P
* persia wonders about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Processes/REVU vs. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<sistpoty> bah... apt is all I need... if only I didn't forget to tee the log :P
<sistpoty> ScottK: btw.: current version on my mirror is "clamav-freshclam                  0.90.3-2ubuntu1"... I won't look at dpkg.log again, promised ;)
<ScottK> So you were upgrading to 0.90.3-2ubuntu1 when you got the error?
<sistpoty> yep
<ScottK> let me go check the diff for that one.
<sistpoty> from $unknown_version probably a few (4-8) weeks old
<sistpoty> or let's rather say I was on gutsy already *g*
<ScottK> We may have a winner.  Give me a moment to pastebin the diff.
<minghua> sistpoty: Should be from 3-1ubuntu2 according to your dpkg.log.
<ScottK> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29880
<minghua> (as your last upgrade was from -1ubuntu1 to -1ubuntu2)
<ScottK> Debian came up with that one all by themselves.  Any thoughts?
<persia> Is it just me, or is $min not actually defined before use?
<minghua> persia: It's just a diff, starting from line #107, no less.
* ScottK notices line 5 of the paste and wonders.
<persia> minghua: True.  Line 106 might be a definition for $min, but line 107 is a commented out definition for $min, which makes me suspicious.
<minghua> Yeah, didn't see the commented-out line, sorry.
<sistpoty> shouldn't matter... sh doesn't check for use before definition
<minghua> Ahem.
<minghua> * Fix newaliases test to not fail when newaliases isn't present (closes: #431990)
<persia> ScottK: What's the difference between /usr/bin/freshclam and /usr/bin/freshclam --quiet?
<minghua> That's in Debian changelog.  Anybody read the Debian bug?
<persia> debian bug 431990
<ubotu> Debian bug 431990 in clamav-base "clamav-base: installation fails: Not creating home directory `/var/lib/clamav'." [Serious,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/431990
<minghua> It's probably the fix in -1ubuntu2, though.
<ScottK> That's correct.
<ScottK> persia: Not sure.
<ScottK> I looked into this when I did the merge and then did a brain dump.
<persia> ScottK: heh.  Try running them locally (I don't have any clam* installed)
<sistpoty> hm... any idea when newaliases was added to exim4?
<minghua> persia: That --quiet change is not important.  Debian bug 427420.
<ubotu> Debian bug 427420 in clamav-freshclam "clamav-freshclam: Recurring warning messages in cron-mode" [Normal,Fixed]  http://bugs.debian.org/427420
<persia> minghua: Right.  It's just the only change I see in the diff for -2ubuntu1 (431990 having been fixed differently in -1ubuntu2)
<sistpoty> hm... newaliases was added back in '02, so 431990 doesn't look like a candidate
* minghua decides it's best to suppress curiosity and goes back to work.
<sistpoty> minghua: +1 ;)
<persia> sistpoty: You're only the bug reporter: you don't get to set the Importance :)
<sistpoty> I guess it might prove more useful to test if a dist-upgrade from feisty to gutsy works, than to look for sistpoty's weird bugs
<jorgerosa> hello
<sistpoty> hehe persia
<persia> Hi jorgerosa
* ScottK wonders.  The bug reports absolutely stopped after the 22-8 kernel got rolled out.
<jorgerosa> ----------
<jorgerosa> Can anyone compile this for us, please, to .DEB file?
<jorgerosa> https://i-team.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/i-team/branches/doddiiteam/
<jorgerosa> and send back to me, please? We need it for some tests here. Thankyou!
<jorgerosa> ----------
<persia>    !paste | jorgerosa
<ubotu> jorgerosa: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<ScottK> Should have clamav 0.91-1 from Debian very soon, so I'll find out.
<ScottK> If there's still an upgrade problem.
<persia> jorgerosa: You'll probably do best to create a needs-packaging bug in LP.  There's a fair bit of work that needs doing to make that into a debian-format package.
<jorgerosa> ok
<persia> jorgerosa: Also, to reduce packaging hassle later, it would be ideal if you could include the relevant license for the software in your repository.  ./COPYING is common, as is ./LICENSE
<jorgerosa> persia: Im sorry guys, im not a coder (coders r away right now), im only windows pro, sorry there :(
<persia> jorgerosa: No problems.  It would be great to get your software into Ubuntu, and it's really nice when software is written to work for both Windows and Linux (even more points for Mac OS X, other BSDs, etc.).  Would you might letting the developers know that a license for the code would be preferred (as otherwise we can't distribute).
<sistpoty> ok, /me is off to bed now... dawn is already breaking here
<sistpoty> gn8 everyone
<jorgerosa> Bye guys
<Fujitsu> Night sistpoty.
<Fujitsu> Bye jorgerosa.
* persia wonders if there is an easy well to tell which update set restart-required
<Fujitsu> Hi Hobbsee.
* Fujitsu complains about the lack of mass-status-changing on LP again.
<ScottK> But Fujitsu, why would you possibly want to do that.  I don't understand.
* ScottK ducks.
<Fujitsu> A 3.5KB CC line is just wrong.
* ajmitch takes the bitter pills away from ScottK 
* ScottK is old enough to be entitled to some bitterness.
<Hobbsee> hey Fujitsu 
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: er...i think you can...
<ajmitch> hello Hobbsee 
<persia> Fujitsu: How about the mail interface?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Well, I mean without compiling a lot of email addresses.
<ajmitch> persia: hence the CC line
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, that's what I've done. Just confirmed with ubotu that they're all right.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ah, right
<minghua> Fujitsu: From beryl to compiz-fusion?
<Fujitsu> minghua: The beryl-core bugs..
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: Don't
<Amaranth> Unless there is a way to mass-reject bugs too
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: What? I am mass-rejecting them...
<Amaranth> oh, i thought you were moving them to compiz
<Amaranth> i was going to get all stabby
<Fujitsu> Ewww, no.
<Fujitsu> I'm not /that/ stupid.
<Amaranth> You wouldn't have been the first person to think of it
<Fujitsu> Really? Wow.
<minghua> I think it's my question that caused confusion, sorry.
<Fujitsu> I find Compiz a tad more stable than Beryl.
<Amaranth> We're trying :)
<Fujitsu> I've been using it with little trouble for three weeks now.
<Amaranth> btw, if you don't like gnome-session stalling for 2 minutes edit /usr/bin/compiz and remove --sm-disable
* Fujitsu hits the send button.
<ScottK> Hah.  persia - beat you by 5 seconds.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: In what?
<ScottK> Replying to the MOTU merge process email.
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: are you getting beryl removed from the archive then?
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: It vanished about 14 hours ago.
<Amaranth> ah
<Fujitsu> There are 3 bits remaining, which I filed a removal request for a couple of hours back.
<Amaranth> this is probably really mean but...
* Amaranth dances and cheers
<persia> ScottK: No contest: we're discussing entirely parallel things :)  Anyway, the meeting discussion was only a determination that having a documented merge policy would be a good thing, and that ideas should be discussed for the next meeting.
<ScottK> persia: Was joking.  Good to hear.
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Ah, good. I was hoping it wasn't going to be some great rational for keeping it around.
<Fujitsu> I was like `Oh, crap... this doesn't look good'
<Amaranth> haha
<persia> ScottK: Separately, do you think "last merger", "last uploader", and "last person to patch" are three different concepts, or just different facets of the same thing?
<ScottK> Facets of the same thing.  Whoever touched it last.  Otherwise it gets too complex.
<ScottK> There are exceptions.  I wouldn't count rebuilds.
<Fujitsu> Gaaaaah, mail server doesn't like me sending that many.
<Amaranth> haha
<persia> ScottK: Hmm..  I wonder.  I've sent a few rebuilds in, for which I would have no idea how to process a merge, but which helped with library transitions, etc.  I'm also not sure about spelling corrections, .desktop files, dependency adjustments, etc.
<Amaranth> looks like spam
<ScottK> persia: Yes, but then there have been cases where I fixed bugs that I wanted to make sure didn't get lost in the next merge.
<ScottK> The problem is how do you decide.
<minghua> To copy a wiki page, no better way than just create an empty new page, press "edit" of old page, then copy and paste.  Right?
<persia> ScottK: Yes.  I've had those (even in one case, where a .desktop file installation (but not the file itself) was dropped in a merge)
<ScottK> I also think take backs after someone steals your package are fair.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: In that case two wrongs do make a right.
* persia doesn't agree with the concept of package ownership 
<ScottK> Not ownership, but the one that knows it best.
<ScottK> The first time you have to merge a package it takes a while to reall grok the merge.  After that it gets easier and the error rate gets lower.
<TheMuso> Personally, the only packages I'd rather people not touch unless tey have asked me, are accessibility/speech packages.
<TheMuso> they even
<ScottK> People doing the same package consistently will give better quality.
<persia> Perhaps I need to be more clear.  When a good patch (or very intrusive patch, etc.) is made, the person making that patch is a good person with whom to discuss the implications.  For many fixes, it seems better to just apply the fix.  Merges are a little special, in my book, as there are usually undocumented justifications for the Debian diff.
<ScottK> Team maintenance has advantages and disadvantages.  Consistency in doing the merges helps with the disadvantages.
<persia> TheMuso: Really?  How about someone correcting some spelling in a translation, etc.
<TheMuso> persia: Well thats different, but most of the packages I work with don't carry a lot of that stuff, in Universe at least.
<persia> ScottK: Yes!  That's why we need some documentation: it improves consistency.
<ScottK> Documenation is great.  I'm not opposed to it.
<minghua> <sarcastic>Documentation is great as long as I am not required to write them.</sarcastic>
<ScottK> The person doing the merge being familiar with the package also improves consistency.
<ScottK> I even write it sometimes.
<ScottK> documentation that is.
<persia> TheMuso: Ah.  Depends on the package, I guess.  I've just had a couple contributors ask me because they didn't expect a merge for their two-line patch for something small (the case where it's too hard), but I also don't see any reason that a developer who usually follows a package shouldn't adopt without too much coordination with the author of the two line patch.
<persia> ScottK: Yes, although familiarity != last to touch necessarily.
<ScottK> That's true.
<ScottK> The problem is give me an algorithm that useable for most familiar?
<ScottK> Last to touch is excessively simplistic, but executable.
<persia> ScottK: Exactly :)  I think that's the discussion AndyP is starting, which would be a good thing (but I need to think more before I have any suggestions).
<ScottK> Last to touch plus some comments about take backs when appropriate would get us pretty well there.
<ScottK> The real problem is people who don't even bother to ask when there's no reason they can't.
<TheMuso> But the biggest problem is the fact that people just go and do the merge.
<persia> ScottK: Also, should we follow last-to-touch for only merges, or for any uploads?  If I'm just rebuilding, how should I indicate that I don't want last-to-touch (except perhaps for the 10 days or so after the rebuild)?
<TheMuso> ScottK: yep
<persia> TheMuso: Yes.  Exactly.  And then we need to fix them :(
<TheMuso> Yep.
<ScottK> persia: If the changelog has the word build in the Debian revision, it doesn't count.
<persia> On the other hand, I've had a few merges done this cycle that were helpful, did the right thing, and happened entirely while I slept, which I found convenient.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Aye. I have recently been syncing a lot of doko's rebuilds that were on MoM.
* Fujitsu complains that nobody has stolen azureus yet.
<persia> ScottK: How about -38-ubuntu6, where the last 5 were rebuilds?
<persia> Fujitsu: I thought I saw a sync request today.  That should clear the last-touched bit :)
<Fujitsu> persia: Really?
* Fujitsu looks.
<ScottK> No automated algorithm will be both executable and cover all cases.
<TheMuso> persia: I thought rebuilds only were buildx versioning.
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  We need to find a best practice.
<Fujitsu> That'll never get accepted... There are Ubuntu changes.
<Fujitsu> Though it might be best to just start afresh.
<persia> TheMuso: Yes, but we don't use -1ubuntu1build1, preferring instead -1ubuntu2.
* ScottK hopes AndyP is taking notes.
<TheMuso> persia: Oh for ubuntu modified packages, sure.
<persia> TheMuso: Which flips the last-touched bit for the rebuilder :)
<TheMuso> yup
<ScottK> gpocentek: In response to your last e-mail, his work continues to be error prone and he's defensive about it -1.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Do you mean andrea?
* ScottK has touched a debdiff and a sync request and they both needed a little work. 
<ScottK> Yes
<gpocentek> ScottK: could you reply on the list?
<TheMuso> Yeah I've had to prompt about a few things when I've worked with him as well.
<ScottK> I will if TheMuso does too.
<gpocentek> :)
<gpocentek> if you're not confortable with it forget it
<TheMuso> ScottK: I've already said enough I think. Other people have raised questions about his work quality.
* ScottK will do it.
<ScottK> gpocentek: Was kidding.
<gpocentek> hehe ok :)
* persia hasn't seen much channel traffic either, but hasn't been sponsoring the work, so feels unqualified to have an official opinion
<teer2> Hello all - thanks for your continued hard work keeping the packages maintained.  I used Synaptic to install Democracy Player - as always, smooth install, but the version is (in some ways) not compatible with their servers since it is a few revs behind.  I was wondering where the responsibility falls to get updates into Synaptic?  Should I go poke the Democracy Player developers to get something to the Ubuntu MOTU folk, or how does th
<ScottK> Sent.  He's also the one that got pissy about stealing merges.
<ScottK> gpocentek: How was that?
<TheMuso> ScottK: Out of the contributers we are working with, there are one or two who I feel aren't working with the rest of the MOTU team, andrea being one of those.
<persia> teer2: You'll do best to open a bug report in LP.  If the gutsy DP isn't compatible with the servers, it'll likely get fixed really soon.  If a released version isn't compatible, we'll need to work out a plan to keep up to date, which might take a while, but a bug is still the best way to start.
* ScottK agrees.
<teer2> persia: I am running Feisty - if that makes a difference.  Eagerly awaiting the Gusty release!
<ScottK> !backports | teer2
<ubotu> teer2: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging
<persia> Personally, I'd like to see those applying to become MOTU demonstrate more work with those still learning, to demonstrate the ability to provide strong solutions.
<TheMuso> persia: Thats not a bad idea at all. I like it.
<ScottK> Personally, I'm still stunned I got in.
<TheMuso> ScottK: You shouldn't be.
<teer2> ScottK: Ooooh, I see!  Thanks.
<persia> ScottK: Isn't "the released version isn't compatible with the servers" a sufficient bug for -updates?  Perhaps we need a special ubuntu-DP server, or closer coordination with upstream.
<ScottK> Shouldn't be stunned or shouldn't have gotten in.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Shouldn't be stunned, sorry.
<ScottK> persia: Then make a patch with just the changed that makes it compatible with the servers.  That would qualify for updates.
<TheMuso> I haven't worked with andrea this period.
<persia> ScottK: You spent months helping everyone get python packages in line, did a whole bunch of packages (mostly correctly, and all correctly after a bit), and were very active in the community.  I don't think it was a real question (which is how it should be).
<TheMuso> Probably because he got annoyed at my comments.
<ScottK> persia and TheMuso thanks.
<persia> ScottK: Right.  I don't know enough about it and don't use it, but I'm guessing a bug is the way to get started (at least it would be for a package I know something about)
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> But this reminds me, I was going to test build the new gnash for backports tonight.  I better get on that.
<teer2> fyi, I get this error message when trying to add a DP channel: "To subscribe to this channel, you need Democracy Player.
<teer2>  Don't have Democracy Player installed? Download it now..."  That doesn't happen on all the channels, btw.  DP otherwise functions normally.
<teer2> Thanks again!
<teer2> Hi again, I just checked the dependencies, and the new version of DP requires a new version of libc6, so it probably is not worth the trouble to push the new version on Feisty users!  Thanks again.
* ScottK wishes he'd stuck around a bit.
* persia would really appreciate 1) bugs being discussed on #ubuntu-bugs, 2) bugs being filed for all issues (even minor ones), and 3) that people would actually participate in discussions.
* Fujitsu would really appreciate being easily able to mark bugs as upstream
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I think that's coming.
<ScottK> https://launchpad.net/bugs/125788
<Fujitsu> ScottK: They're not working to improve the use case where there is no upstream product defined, AFAIK.
<ScottK> Ah.  Well that's pretty useless then.
<persia> Fujitsu: Does the upstream link code not work for you?  I agree it's a little frustrating to set up for a new package, but I think it works nicely once it's set up (e.g. most of GNOME or KDE).
<ScottK> Of course that use case wouldn't help the world domination plan.
* TheMuso returns with food.
<Fujitsu> If I'm plowing through hundreds of bugs, I really can't be bothered registering a couple of hundred new products.
<persia> Now I'm confused.  Personally, I don't understand it, but I've seen RainCT register upstream bugtrackers for at least 10 packages, so it clearly doesn't either require special permissions, or require secret knowledge
<Fujitsu> In Debian, you just tag it forwarded.
<Fujitsu> persia: It takes a lot more time than just tagging it.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I see.  Yes, for 1000 bugs, it's annoying.
<Fujitsu> We have 6500 bugs over several thousand packages, with maybe a hundred or less of those having projects registered.
* persia wonders if registering upstream bugtrackers would be a good additional task for bugsquad.
<persia> Does anyone know if BugSquad has policy meetings, or where, or when?
* ScottK ponders persia establishing an ubuntu-upstream-bugtracker-registration team.
<Fujitsu> I don't think so, persia.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Hah, that'd be nice.
<persia> ScottK: It's not worth registering a team.  I'll just ping Mr. QA during the week, and update the wiki.
<ScottK> persia: Just ping bdmurray on #ubuntu-bugs.
<ScottK> Heh
<persia> ScottK: This time I beat you (although only by 1 second) :)
<Fujitsu> It'd be nice to have a one-click create-a-basic-project button, and it goes into a queue somewhere to have more useful details added later.
<ScottK> Yep, so it's still +4 for me.
<persia> Fujitsu: Agreed.  is there a bug open about that?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125788 in malone "Add link to bugs needing forwarding upstream for a product" [High,Confirmed]  
<Fujitsu> persia: I don't think so
* persia plots trying to define a jp106 dvorak keyboard layout to regain those four seconds
<Fujitsu> I've brought it up in #launchpad a couple of times, and they just say it won't be a problem once everything is registered.
<persia> Fujitsu: There you go then.  Now, as this is a previously addressed problem: please file a bug :)
* Fujitsu tries to not stab someone.
<Hobbsee> persia: bugsquad doesnt have meetings
<Fujitsu> Ah, the beryl-core bug page looks lovely :)
<Hobbsee> persia: but remember - most of the bugsquad moves to doing packaging anyway
<persia> Hobbsee: I thought they used to have them, but I hadn't seen any since bughelper was started, so I wondered....
<Hobbsee> persia: not sure...i havent seen any in a *long* time
<persia> Hobbsee: Eventually.  For particulaly slow people, that can take years.
* persia is such a particularly slow person
<Hobbsee> bah.  or just underconfident.
<persia> Hobbsee: Depends.  It's often easier to file a good bug, perhaps with a patch or replication code than to actually fix the problem.
* Hobbsee shrugs
* minghua is not particularly fond of filing bugs in LP
<persia> minghua: But you still use sid, don't you?
<minghua> I've filed a bug against dapper after testing installation a few days after release, got no responses, and was asked if it's reproducible on feisty one year later.
<Hobbsee> minghua: that's a general problem with universe bugs, remember?
<minghua> persia: Yes, I stopped using Ubuntu as daily system a bit after edgy release.
<Hobbsee> minghua: you're not really going to get away from that, unless you get more people involved in triaging
* ScottK has found Ubuntu has a lot fewer annoying bugs since I started fixing the ones that were bugging me.
<gpocentek> ScottK: thanks for your reply
<persia> minghua: That's just bad luck.  Most of my bugs got responses, and were solved within the release cycle.
<ScottK> You're welcome.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: do you have, and use, an account on alioth?
<minghua> Hobbsee: I remember.  I'm not exactly blaming the developers, I know they are busy.  I am just saying such experiences makes me wary of filing bugs against unfamiliar packages.
<minghua> I just don't know if there is a developer that looks at the bugs regularly.
<Hobbsee> minghua: i hope you're filing those bugs to debian instead, then
<ajmitch> minghua: unlikely
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I do.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: good.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: with debian kde extras, i presume, shoving all applicable kde stuff back up there?
<minghua> Actually, the same applies to Debian.  If I report bugs to one package and the maintainer doesn't reply, after one or two bugs I stop filing them (if not stop using the package).
<ScottK> No, Debian Python Modules Team.
<minghua> ajmitch: For some packages there are.  I look at the bugs of my Debian packages regularly.
<persia> minghua: One way to check is to look for bug subscribers for the package.  Most of us who care about specific packages have subscribed to the package bugs, which increases the chance we'll see it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: ah.  please do it for kde packages that you see and touch, too.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Up until I started doing the S/MIME stuff, I'd never really done much for KDE.
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<minghua> Hobbsee: I don't file bugs to Debian before I reproduce them on Debian.  But I agree on your point.
<Hobbsee> minghua: right, yeah
<ScottK> Do I need to go back and send the S/MIME dependency changes to alioth?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: well, if you think taht debian should also ahve the same functionality, that would be useful, yes....
<persia> ScottK: Have you been granted write-access to the debian-kde-extras repository?
<ScottK> persia: No.  I haven't asked.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you should
<ScottK> OK.  Ask > TODO.
<persia> ScottK: I'm pretty sure it's easy to get in for kubuntu members
<minghua> persia: That's a good point.  But I am subscribed to some packages' bugmail without understanding it really, and don't reply bugmails.  I only monitor them in case I can reproduce the bug on Debian.  So bugmail subscriber is not a sure thing.
<ScottK> I should also look into filing patches in BTS for the gnupg stuff too if it's relevant.
<persia> minghua: True, but it's at least a hint.
<ScottK> I actually had a very pleasant experience as an upstream today with Debian.  The libspf2 maintainer e-mailed and asked for comments on two patches he'd gotten.
* persia thinks most Debian maintainers are good at working with upstream
<ScottK> Good night everyone.  I'm going to bed.
<TheMuso> Night ScottK.
<Hobbsee> night ScottK 
<persia> OK.  I think I'd like to process a sync, but I'm getting an md5sum mismatch on the Debian package.  Any suggestions on this?  Would it be appropriate to repack, or should it be ignored as likely compromised?
<Hobbsee> persia: as in, are you asking about the packaging in debina, or it for ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> persia: you'll have to fakesync it
<Fujitsu> persia: You mean the Debian package won't unpack?
<Fujitsu> You sure you're not using the Ubuntu .orig.tar.gz?
<minghua> Sounds like different .orig.tar.gz.
<persia> Hobbsee: Last update was a sync.  New update would be a sync, but the Debian package fails the md5sum check.  I'm just not sure if Ubuntu particularly cares.  If it's not important, I'll fakesync.  If it's important, I'll bug Debian about fixing it.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.  New upstream in Debian, orig.tar.gz downloaded with dget from unstable.
<minghua> persia: Which package?
<persia> minghua: bochs
<Hobbsee> persia: is the upstream version distributed as a .tar.bz2?
<persia> Hobbsee: Looks like a snapshot
<persia> (bochs_2.3+20070705.orig.tar.gz)
<Hobbsee> okay, so where does the md5sum mismatch occur?
<persia> Hobbsee: md5sum for .orig.tar.gz in dsc doesn't match the output of md5sum locally.
<minghua> persia: 2.3+20070705-2 unpacks fine here.
* persia is bothered and disturbed
<minghua> 9b532803fcab3626a007f2f83a6fc921  bochs_2.3+20070705.orig.tar.gz
<StevenK> persia: We knew that.
* StevenK ducks.
<persia> minghua: Do you get 5f527e3e7ae6cbbb534e9454f1deb705 as the md5sum for the orig.tar.gz?
<minghua> That's my download as well as what the .dsc says.
<TheMuso> StevenK: lol
<minghua> persia: sounds like corrupted download on your side.
* persia pours noxious substances on the floor, making ducking people stand up
* Hobbsee defenestrates persia 
<persia> minghua: Really?  My dsc says 9b532803fcab3626a007f2f83a6fc921, but the signature is valid, making me think the download isn't corrupt.
<Hobbsee> ***anyone who is bored, please fix stuff on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/gutsy_probs.html - StevenK, myself, and any other main people, can sponsor changes ***
<minghua> persia: Alas.  I meant "9b532803fcab3626a007f2f83a6fc921" is my download as well as the .dsc says.
<persia> minghua: Hrm.  I'll try again.  Perhaps it's just an error on one mirror (I've gotten the same error with multiple downloads).
<minghua> persia: so, corrupt .orig.tar.gz download for you.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Can I? :-P
<Hobbsee> StevenK: yes.
* StevenK will look at festival in a sec.
<persia> Hobbsee: I'll fix all those iff you can get someone to regularly regenerate gutsy_universe_probs.html
<Hobbsee> persia: hmm...possible, i expect.
<StevenK> persia: They tried that. It took like 6 hours
<Hobbsee> persia: but debcheck provides a nicer output
<persia> StevenK: Once a day (or even twice a week) would be better than never.
<Fujitsu> http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck
<Fujitsu> 6 hourly.
* persia thinks that should be added to the MOTU resource list somewhere, and hosted by our dear sponsors, rather than a dedicated volunteer
<minghua> Fujitsu: Is that your page?  Nice.
<persia> Hobbsee: OK.  I guess I have some work pending then :)  festival first.
* Fujitsu has been noticing festival held back.
<Hobbsee> persia: yeah, well.  we'll see.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: You have festival installed?
<persia> Fujitsu: Would you mind advertising that in the ubuntu-motu@ thread about tools?
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: I do.
<Fujitsu> Not sure why.
<Fujitsu> persia: I'll reply to that thread now.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.
<Fujitsu> It seems to actually be working now.
* persia wishes gedbi had fewer dependencies: it'd be nice to use gdebi broken.deb in a chroot
* TheMuso attacks the debcheck list to fix packages broken on powerpc.
* StevenK fixes festival, and sighs at the Debian maintainer.
<TheMuso> StevenK: ??
<StevenK> sysv-rc is Priority: required, and yet he Depends on the highest version he can.
<TheMuso> Ah.
<minghua> Hmm, what is the verb for "officialize"?
<Hobbsee> to make official?
<Fujitsu> I think Hobbsee is correct.
<Hobbsee> i cant think of anything else
<minghua> I'll use that then,  thanks Hobbsee.
<Hobbsee> :)
* Fujitsu has been mostly working on things with broken depends on all archs.
<persia> StevenK: Hey!  I was fixing the festival dependencies.  I'll leave it to you then :(
* persia looks for another package
* minghua likes Chinese for having an "-ize" way for all adjectives, at least in not-very-official occasions.
<minghua> I think we stole that from Japanese.
* persia claims libvirt
<TheMuso> haha
<TheMuso> FOund a python package that is arch all, but requires a package only on amd64/i386.
<TheMuso> So is uninstallable on powerpc.
<Nafallo> is someone packaging powertop?
<Nafallo> http://www.linuxpowertop.org/results.php
<Nafallo> oh. it's in Debian.
<StevenK> persia: libvirt requires some Xen muscles
<persia> Erm.  That's fixed too, and most of these use germinate, which bothers me.
<persia> StevenK: Right - those are in 2.6.22-8, and -0ubuntu1 is depwait on them now :)
* persia tries to claim kdepimlibs, fully expecting it to be done by another
<Hobbsee> persia: not sure if riddell's already touching that, or if it's installable as of the upload last night
<Hobbsee> not positive on when that was regenerated last
<persia> Hobbsee: At first glance, it looks like last night's upload works :(
<persia> Hobbsee: My apologies, but I'm not sure there's much left for non core-dev to do.  RCS & LVM is sacred, -meta requires write-access to the seeds (or perhaps just run update), and GNOME gets lots of updates from upstream on a regular basis.
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: We've had powertop in Ubuntu for a couple of months.
<StevenK> persia: -meta might mean that one of the dependancies isn't installable
* persia goes to dig into why -meta is broken, thinking that there aren't supposed to be any dependencies, only recommends
<Hobbsee> persia: not sure that they were respun
<Hobbsee> with the seed changes
<Hobbsee> persia: no problem
<persia> Hobbsee: That's my thought.  There were lots of changes committed recently, and a new germinate, but -meta hasn't been refreshed.
<Hobbsee> persia: because we expected more changes, before the respin :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Sure.  I'm not surprised, it's just that I don't think it's worth a debdiff - it's easier for a core-dev to run update and expect it to work (unless anastacia has lost her mind)
<ajmitch> persia: what are you doing with libvirt?
<Hobbsee> persia: oh yes, of course
<persia> ajmitch: Nothing.  Chuck uploaded a fix for the installation failure, and it's just waiting on the Xen fixes, which Ben has been chasing.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> it's a package that I initially did
* StevenK waits for festival to get published.
<Fujitsu> Has anybody here got mod rights over the MOTU ML? I posted from the wrong address, it seems.
<minghua> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-07-14 is my first draft
* ajmitch probably does
<ajmitch> though I'd have to hunt down a list password
<minghua> persia: It still needs work (finish the other topic section, adding links, spellchecking), but I hope I covered all discussions.
<minghua> persia: And I'll be leaving for home soon.  Will work on it when I get home.
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: done
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Danke.
<minghua> Any other MOTU meeting attendee is also welcomed to check the minute draft.
<StevenK> persia: What I was saying about -meta seems to hold true for ubuntu-meta on gutsy_probs. ubuntu-desktop can't be installed on Sparc, since gnome-session can't be.
<persia> minghua: 1) AndyP's mail was post-meeting, 2) Next Q&A belongs in Upcoming Events.  3) I think the effort to cover Outstanding merges before UVF got merged into the larger merge discussion (and kicked it off, as I recall), 4) "More efficient HUG Days" needs attribution, and might belong with the HUG day schedule annoucement.  Otherwise, looks great.
<StevenK> As well as gnome-power-manager
<persia> StevenK: Right.  I just don't have a handy sparc :)
<StevenK> I do, but it's a gutless wonder. :-)
<TheMuso> Is sparky still up?
<persia> StevenK: Can it install things?  It might take a couple days, but Fabio would likely bless you for fixing it :)
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: why didn't you say when I showed the link to you? :-9
<Nafallo> :-)
<persia> TheMuso: Yep, but the keyring hasn't been refreshed in at least 6 weeks.
<StevenK> sparky isn't much quicker than my sparc.
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: I presumed you would know.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: hehe.
* Fujitsu has only received two annoyed emails about the beryl removal so far.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Oh?
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: haven't even got a laptop myself. running it on my desktop now :-)
<persia> Fujitsu: Why so many?
<Nafallo> Wakeups-from-idle per second : 1614,2   interval: 10,0s
<Fujitsu> Nafallo: Ouch.
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: update-manager ;-)
<Fujitsu> I wonder how I'm doing... Compiz is unlikely to be helping.
<minghua> persia: 2 is just stupid typo and fixed.  Will fix 1 on next edit.  3 and 4 are in "other topic" section because there were no conclusions.  I deliberately kept discussion and event dates separate.
* StevenK watches sparky chug along
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: compiz doesn't hurt
<StevenK> Ugh.
* StevenK coughs up a lung
<TheMuso> StevenK: You will miss it.
<Amaranth> it adds 60 or so if you use intel since it does an interrupt on vblank (your refresh rate)
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: Something is causing my i915 interrupt to cause wakeups 200 times a second.
<Amaranth> and compiz itself has a timer that adds 4
<Fujitsu> I think Compiz might just be it, y'know?
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: did you tell compiz your refresh rate was 200?
<StevenK> TheMuso: Yeah, but not right now.
<Fujitsu> It's down to about 100 now...
<Fujitsu> Still rather high.
<StevenK> Ah ha.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Let me know when you've finished with sparky. I will need some of his CPU cycles soon.
<minghua> I am heading home.  See you guys later.
<Nafallo> http://www.linuxpowertop.org/known.php
<Nafallo> Fujitsu: ^ :-)
<Amaranth> something on my system flips out and causes like 80000 wakeups and locks me in C0 unless i disable my second core
<Amaranth> happens after a certain amount of time and killing everything (literally, everything) doesn't fix it
<Amaranth> and nothing shows up in the list to explain it
<Hobbsee> okay, kdelibs hates me
<Amaranth> weird, i'm up to 400
<StevenK> TheMuso: All done.
<TheMuso> StevenK: Thanks.
<ScottK> Does Ubuntu care about Optional stuff depending on stuff in Extra?
<StevenK> I suspect so.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It doesn't look like it.
<StevenK> Hold on, weren't you going to bed?
<Fujitsu> There is an enormous amount of stuff broken like that.
* ScottK was.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: I thought so.
<Nafallo> "The Pidgin (GAIM) instant messaging client checks every 5 seconds if you have been idle more than 10 minutes"...
<StevenK> Nafallo: Kwality
<Fujitsu> 617 sources with binaries with broken priorities.
<Nafallo> indeed :-)
<ScottK> Where would the policy be written?  Packaging guide?
<persia> ScottK: I think we inherit from Debian policy on this.
<Nafallo> "In addition to this, it will also ask the X server every 5 seconds if the X server supports the X screensaver extension"
<Nafallo> LOL
<Nafallo> I will NEVER use pidgin :-)
<Fujitsu> Nice, nice.
<ScottK> Well we're serous broken then I guess.
<persia> (http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-priorities)
<ScottK> Right.  The question is does Ubuntu care?
<Fujitsu> It's even a `must not'.
* Fujitsu fixes a couple of spelling mistakes in debcheck.
<Nafallo> aha. pidgin is already fixed for those :-)
<ScottK> Is there a process for changing priority or is it just file a bug with a debdiff and convince Hobbsee to upload it?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: for what, sorry?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: It's overrides...
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Stuff that is optional depending on stuff that's extra
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure...
<ScottK> Hmmm
<persia> Fujitsu: Is it overrides for all 617, or might some have an incorrect Priority setting?
<lifeless> allo allo
<Hobbsee> hi lifeless!
<TheMuso> Heya lifeless.
<Fujitsu> Hi lifeless.
<lifeless> hi, hi, hi :)
<TheMuso> StevenK: You didn't update the gutsy pbuilder on sparky?
* TheMuso shakes head.
<ScottK> I guess I also wonder about debcheck whining about stuff in Main recommending Universe stuff.  Is that a problem?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: I don't know of a policy on that.
<persia> I thought "Recommends" we acceptable (but neither Depends: nor Build-Depends:).
<Hobbsee> ScottK: er...good question
<persia> s/we/was/
<Fujitsu> It is a good question, though.
<Fujitsu> Especially with the automatic installation these days.
<Hobbsee> recommends are currently acceptable, as long as it's not a metapackage - but who knows if that will change
<ScottK> persia: Me too, but debcheck complains.
* persia likes actual public written policies
<Hobbsee> oh bleh
* Hobbsee kicks germinate
<persia> Without Recommends, we'll either have a lot more in main, or Universe will be less obviously useful to users.
* Fujitsu can remove that complaint if wished.
<lifeless> Hobbsee: water it:)
* ScottK agrees.
<Fujitsu> It's just there because it was there in Debian.
<Hobbsee> lifeless: it's dying, because it's thinking my lp id is sarah, not hobbsee, which is what my ssh key is under.
<persia> Fujitsu: Would you?  Ideally, everything there should be a request for an upload, no?
<lifeless> erk
<lifeless> time to check the code for environment variables :)
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Can you somehow remove it for non-meta packages and keep it for metapackages?
<Hobbsee> lifeless: yes.  it's tryign a standard bzr checkout, without using teh hobbsee@...
<persia> Hobbsee: Always use the same username for everything :)
<Hobbsee> lifeless: true.  this worked before, i thought
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Possibly. I'll see if I have that info.
<lifeless> Hobbsee: oh, easy answer -ssh alias
<lifeless> .ssh/config
<ScottK> Fujitsu: That would be the thing to do if you can (I think).
<Hobbsee> lifeless: Oh?
<lifeless> Host bazaar.launchpad.net:
<lifeless>     user hobsee
<lifeless> oh, no colon, but otherwise right
<Hobbsee> ahhh..
<lifeless> and spell your nick right too ;)
<Hobbsee> yeah
* persia also recommends s/H/h/
<Hobbsee> lifeless: i do vaguely consider just taking ~sarah :P
<Hobbsee> lifeless: assuming that works...presumably that wont effect the checkotus that have hobbsee@bazaar...etc?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You'll need to rebind those.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: rebind how?
<Fujitsu> bzr bind sftp://sarah@baz...
<Hobbsee> lifeless: that's working, thanks.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, i meant "assuming that the .ssh/config change works, that means i wont need to change the checkouts that have hobbsee@bazaar...."
<Fujitsu> Ah, right.
<Hobbsee> not the changing to ~sarah
<lifeless> sound't need to rebind anytrhing
<lifeless> best to not have usernames in the urls anyhow ;)
* ScottK notices he just got slammed by laserjock on the motu list.
* Fujitsu noticed that a while ago.
* Fujitsu checks for more angry Beryl users.
* ScottK wasn't checking e-mail.
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: 'more'?
* ScottK is doing insomnia, not being productive.
<Amaranth> you've already gotten angry beryl users?
<Fujitsu> I had a couple of emails complaining.
<Fujitsu> And one who said their bug was still present in compiz-fusion and moved it over there.
<Amaranth> wow
<Burgundavia> beryl users angry?
<Burgundavia> why so?
<Amaranth> why mass-reject anyway? the package is gone
<Amaranth> don't the bugs go away?
<Burgundavia> why mass reject?
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: To kill off about 200 universe bugs?
<Fujitsu> No, they stay there.
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: because beryl is gone
<Burgundavia> but they might be compiz-fusion bugs
<Burgundavia> tag them as needinof and close them in two weeks
<ScottK> Burgundavia: Where's the convenient LP interface for that?
<Burgundavia> ScottK: I wish
<Burgundavia> you coudl do it via the email interface
<Amaranth> i even gave up on email
<ScottK> That's what Fujitsu did and even then it was painful.
<Fujitsu> The mail server didn't like 150 recipients :(
<Hobbsee> ScottK: laserjock does have a point though
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I agree.  There's a balance to be had.  
<Fujitsu> Burgundavia: It's most likely that we're going to get those crashes reported again if they're still present in compiz fusion.
<Hobbsee> true
<ScottK> For me it seems like it's just a polite thing to do.  "Hey, you merged this last time.  Do you mind if I do it?"
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: but what about the feature requests? what about the usability bugs?
<Fujitsu> It seems polite because that's how the policy works at the moment.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Yeah. Usually the person in questions says go for it.
<Burgundavia> I would be seriously pissed if my bugs were closed without anything
<ScottK> Hobbsee: You may recall I merged several of your packages for Feisty and you never said no, yet I always asked.
<Burgundavia> ScottK: there was a blog post about this, when gaim did it
<Burgundavia> it is ok to tag them needsinfo and then close them
<Hobbsee> ScottK: true :)
<ScottK> That's different though, that was just a name change.  This is a removal.
<Fujitsu> You can be fairly sure that all gaim bugs will be in pidging.
<Fujitsu> *pidgin
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i will only say no if i have some other reason
<Burgundavia> ScottK: no, it is not
<ScottK> Exactly.
<Burgundavia> ScottK: it is pretty much the same source
* ScottK thought it was pretty much compiz source.
<ScottK> Not beryl.
<Burgundavia> beryl was still mostly compiz
<Fujitsu> Why did Beryl crash so much more, then
<Fujitsu> *?
<Hobbsee> it seething with crack
<ScottK> Sure, but still bringing a fork back together is very different than a name change.
<Hobbsee> er, it was seething wiht crack
<Burgundavia> the point of the matter is that it is extremely rude and is likely to turn off some people from further contributions
<ScottK> Not saying there aren't bugs in there that are valid still, but mass reject and rereport as needed seems like a good use of scarce time and talent.
<ScottK> It all depends on what Fujitsu said in the rejection mail.
<Burgundavia> if you are doing a mass reject, is it not as easy to mass reassign and tag as needs info?
<Burgundavia> especially given Fujitsu did it via the email interface
<Fujitsu> I said that it was replaced by Compiz Fusion, so had been removed from Gutsy. A couple of them have already been responded to by the reported and moved to compiz-fusion.
<Amaranth> Burgundavia: speaking of which, you should see if your bugs filed against compiz are still relevant :)
<Burgundavia> Amaranth: that I should
<ScottK> And then do it again two weeks later after having to go through them all AGAIN to see which can be rejected.  It's the going through them again that eats the time.
<Amaranth> i'm pretty sure i set them all the Incomplete and asked for a gutsy update
<Burgundavia> ScottK: it is really not that hard, given we are trying to get the best compiz for gutsy
<Burgundavia> I can say this, having done it once
<ScottK> OK.  Keep in mind I've already been accused of being bitter tonight.
<TheMuso> heh
<Burgundavia> the key point is that you don't want to piss people off, because you never know when you might be pissing off a potential contributor
<ScottK> Sure.  But (as with other things) there is a balance.  There is only so much manpower to do that work and using to much of it to avoid pissing off potential contributors is also counter productive.
<Burgundavia> yes, but in this case it is almost the same amount of work
<ScottK> Err X 2 is what it looks like from here.
<Fujitsu> There's the initial move, then the waiting, then the looking through for replies, then the mass rejection (which would likely collect most of the bugs anyway, due to lack of response).
<ajmitch> hello Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> hey ajmitch
<Burgundavia> Fujitsu: but the replies are not much, given, as say, most are not going to reply
<ScottK> But you still have to go through them.
<Hobbsee> darn it.  i've forgottne how to update the metapackages, with the changelog entries
* ScottK fires back at laserjock.
* Fujitsu watches a bloody battle ensue.
<ScottK> Hah.  Beat persia by 15 seconds that time.
* ScottK was nice.
* ScottK didn't ask how much time he's spent here since he made core-dev.
<ScottK> Did I say that out loud?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: just a thought - he may have had to step down for RL reasons, too.
* persia is down 19 now :(
<ScottK> Sure.  That actually came out much more harsh than I was thinking.
<persia> ScottK: I'd argue that any package that's hard to merge if the original uploader was hit by a bus would be a case of either a poor changelog, lack of comments in the patch, or the lack of README.Debian-source (but then, I'm a convert).
<persia> s/either/one of/
<ScottK> To an extent that's true, but if you know what to expect, you'll make fewer mistakes.
<TheMuso> persia: Good call
<persia> ScottK: That's true as well.  It's a matter of "targets of opportunity" vs. "personal responsibility".
* persia reiterates that merges should be the least important thing MOTUs do
<ScottK> As a community cultural matter, I think it's polite to ask and polite to say OK, unless there's a good reason why not.  You might even say, "Sure, but watch out for po files in the diff.  Just edit them out."
<ScottK> It's kind of like when you go out to eat and one person's food comes late.  It's polite to ask them if they mind if you go ahead and polite for them to say no.
<persia> ScottK: True, but if there's an issue like that, doesn't it belong in the changelog or in README.Debian-source?  I'm certainly more knowledgeable about a merge at the time I do it than at the time the next Debian upload happens, and I'd like not to feel I have to check an extra web page daily to see if there are pending changes that have been assigned to me.
* TheMuso is out for a walk. Back later.
* Fujitsu notes the topic of .desktops has come up on debian-devel.
<ScottK> Well in the case I mentioned (courier) it's only an issue if you're a non-MOTU doing a debdiff, so it doesn't really go in the changelog.
<persia> Fujitsu: Which network?
<Fujitsu> persia: The mailing list.
* persia relaxes, knowing it can be read later
<persia> ScottK: I must have missed that.  How does it matter?  What's special about courier?
<ScottK> There's something with the po files in that package that they show up in the debdiff even though the aren't changed. 
<ScottK> If you are merging and uploading it never comes up.
<ScottK> I think it may have to do with line lengths, but I'm not sure.
<persia> ScottK: They must be changing.  Perhaps they're updated and refeshed by clean: somehow?
<ScottK> No, when you look at the text, they are the same, just line wrapped differently.
<ScottK> Courier is a seriously unhappy package in many ways.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: FYI, http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck/debcheck.php?list=ALL-light is 404.
<minghua> Meeting minute draft: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-07-14
<persia> Anyway, I think that's just a sponsorship detail.  I regularly pull config.sub and config.guess changes from debdiffs when sponsoring, I'm not sure how auto-regerated po files are different.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Oops, I thought I'd migrated everything.
<minghua> persia: "other topics" section are much more clear now.
<minghua> Please review the minute draft, I'll be sending them in 30 minutes if no changes are required.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Fixed. It's in the template, so I didn't notice it.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Glad to be of service.
<persia> minghua: Looks much better.  Thanks.  I still think that the remainder of the "other topics" section should have attribution to the person raising the topic, but that's not always been done in previous minutes.  Thanks a lot for drafting these.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Yep.  Works here now.
<minghua> persia: Sometimes it's kind of hard to attribute to a particular person.
<persia> minghua: Understood.
* ScottK considers another attempt at sleep.
<Fujitsu> Night, ScottK.
<Hobbsee> sleep is overrated
<ScottK> Good night.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Sleep is for the weak.
<Hobbsee> exactly
<minghua> Hmm, so its "meeting minutes" even for only one document.
<persia> minghua: Yes.  Each item is considered a "minute", although there's usually poor correlation with typical time measurements.
<minghua> persia: I see that you send minutes to -motu and -devel-discuss.  Do you think -devel is better?
<minghua> There is probably not much to discuss about the minutes.
<persia> minghua: I was just following the example of the two Daniels who had sent minutes for meetings before I started.  There's no intelligence involved in the distribution list.
<minghua> And I suspect few people subscribe/regularly read -devel-discuss.
* persia subscribes - traffic isn't that bad lately
* Fujitsu reads -devel-discuss, but normally by means of the `mark all as read' button.
<minghua> I'll send to -motu and -devel this time then, unless there is objection.
* persia wonders if the entire audience of -devel is really interested in the MOTU Meeting minutes
<Hobbsee> persia: ifnot, they can filter
<minghua> Speaking of reading list, is there a key-binding in mutt for "mark current mail as read"?
<persia> Hobbsee: filter on what?  It otherwise looks like a normal mail from a developer.
<Hobbsee> persia: er, delete, sorry
<persia> Hobbsee: Perhaps, but isn't it better to notify the right audience than encourage people to delete things?  I thought that was why we all moved from usenet to email 15 years ago.
* minghua thinks minutes to -devel arrives at more correct audience than those to -devel-discuss, but has to data to back up this idea.
<Hobbsee> persia: i'm unconvinced that there arent people wanting to watch motu stuff
<minghua> s/to data/no data/
* persia thinks they should be subscribed to ubuntu-motu then
* minghua leaves Cc: line open and waits persia and Hobbsee to argue. :-)
<Hobbsee> particularly with the current pressure on doing some reviewing, from teh disto team, etc
<Hobbsee> that being said - i havent seen the minutes yet
* Fujitsu wonders if he is going to get killed for getting new package indices from a.u.c 4 times a day.
<minghua> Hobbsee: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2007-07-14  # Please do!
<persia> Hobbsee: Not really anything about reviewing - it's mostly Fixed Topics, and calls for discussion for the next meeting.
<Hobbsee> fair enough
<persia> Hobbsee: I would argue that if there was something that was reviewing related, or otherwise of particular interest to a wider audience, someone should volunteer to draft a targeted message on the subject to ubuntu-devel@
<Hobbsee> fair enough
* Hobbsee files a bug.
<minghua> persia: I am convinced, -devel-discuss then.
<persia> I feel like a REVU.  Could anyone recommend a package that either 1) is nearly ready for upload, or 2) needs heaps of work (which allows me to autogenerate lots of comments)
<Hobbsee> persia: start at the top...
<persia> Hobbsee: Yeah, well.  Sometimes there are uploaders here who want reviews.  I like to reward attendance in #ubuntu-motu.
<Hobbsee> true :)
<Hobbsee> grep the logs
* minghua wonders if he should upload a package for persia to review. :-P
<Fujitsu> What was the decision on the need of REVU for MOTU?
<minghua> I don't really know.  I assumed since new package in REVU need two advocates, new package by MOTU needs another nod?
<persia> Fujitsu: last I heard, the process for new packages by MOTUs was 1) upload to review, 2) wait for ACK, 3) upload to archive.
<Fujitsu> I remember a decision was made a while ago.
<persia> minghua: Right.  1 advocate should be enough, but the last couple I did had "second" ACK from the original uploader, so the NEW annoucement and actual upload were done by the original packager.
* persia doesn't ever package new software, so is less familiar with this process than with others
<minghua> persia: What's your opinion of putting the text contents of meeting minutes in the mail?
* Fujitsu has created one entirely new package, and rewritten the packaging of another.
* Hobbsee has never done a new package, fully
<persia> minghua: It hasn't been done since I was MOTU, but it was done in the past.  I don't have a strong opinion either way.
* persia has repackaged lots of things, but those were all normal uploads & didn't require REVU or anything
<man-di> no leonel anymore
<persia> Anyone have an opinion about the libgpod refresh?  It's currently cross-subscribed to U-M-S and U-U-S: I'd be happy to help sponsor (but main should go first).
<man-di> anyway, if someone needs sun-java6 6u2, doko should be doing this
<man-di> when he gets the DLJ builds from SUN
<man-di> which needd several months for 6u1
* minghua did his first package completely wrong, and is still suffering for carrying all the baggages of working around previous errors. :-(
* TheMuso returns
<Fujitsu> Hi TheMuso
<persia> Has anyone seen Bixente in the last while?
<TheMuso> No.
<persia> TheMuso: Thanks.
<TheMuso> WHois doesn't help either.
<minghua> Meeting minutes sent.
<Fujitsu> Thanks minghua
<TheMuso> minghua: Thanks.
<minghua> I do what I can. :-)
<minghua> Thanks to you guys for fixing universe.
<Fujitsu> We just watch it break and wait for Debian to fix it.
<man-di> Fujitsu: do you had time to look into the multidistrotools issue with packages only pesent in debian?
<Fujitsu> man-di: Sure, I'll hunt out the link to pastebin.
<Bixente> hi persia :)
<persia> Bixente: Hi!  I just archived your grandr-applet upload from REVU, but wanted to make sure that nixternal was correct regarding the code: if your package enhances other things, etc. I'd be happy to unarchive.
* minghua reads the merging policy thread and see heated discussions.
<minghua> I think I'll join in.
<persia> minghua: Great!  The more pre-meeting discussion, the easier it will be to get consensus at the meeting.
<Fujitsu> man-di: It seems to be throwing exceptions now when it gets a 404. I have no idea about anything other than basic Ruby.
<man-di> Fujitsu: at least you know basic Ruby ;-)
<Fujitsu> I only know it from trial and error when hacking up version2html :P
<Fujitsu> *versions2html
<man-di> Fujitsu: I only know it from its name...
<man-di> anyway
<man-di> what is the best way to get that fixed?
<Fujitsu> Probably catch the exception.
<Fujitsu> Or rescue, as I think it might be in ruby.
<man-di> is someone an ruby expert here?
<Bixente> persia: np, I wanted to ask somebody to archive it.
<persia> Bixente: Thanks for the confirmation.
<Fujitsu> man-di: For now, it might be easiest to check if pl.b == 'NOTFOUND'
<man-di> Fujitsu: can you test this?
<Fujitsu> Possibly.
* Fujitsu wonders about the Ruby equivalent of Python's `continue'
<Fujitsu> I think I'll just wrap it in a begin..rescue, and hope that works.
<Fujitsu> Bah, I have no idea how to do this.
<Fujitsu> You'll have to ask a Ruby god.
<Fujitsu> Or just disable the builds section for now.
<Fujitsu> ScottK2: To bed with you!
<Nightrose> persia: if you are still looking for something to revu: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6003 would love to get some comments ;-)
<persia> Nightrose: Sure.  Thanks.
<man-di> Fujitsu: I disable the buildssection for now. I just would like to have it
<man-di> Fujitsu: I will try to find a ruby god
<man-di> Fujitsu: Thanks for your help
<Fujitsu> man-di: If you get it fixed, please either create a branch and ask me to merge from it, or send a patch.
<man-di> Fujitsu: will do
<Fujitsu> Thanks.
<Fujitsu> What do you use mdt for?
<man-di> Fujitsu: making sure all Java packages are in sync or on a good way in Debian and Ubuntu
<Fujitsu> Good to see somebody taking care of them.
<Bixente> I'm looking for someone to review this package : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5931, thanks
<man-di> Fujitsu: thx
<persia> Nightrose: commented.
<gpocentek> Bixente: looking
<gpocentek> (if persia is not already on it)
<man-di> Fujitsu: the main reason I want this to work is: I requested a sync for eclipse, persia synced, some days later eclipse informed me that eclipse FTBFSed. I would really like to see this easily on my own
<persia> gpocentek: Please feel free: I was just starting, but python policy compliance really isn't my forte :
<persia> )
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Bixente> gpocentek: thanks :)
<gpocentek> persia: same for me :/ we'll ask ScottK-confused (ou ScottK2) for a second review ;)
<persia> gpocentek: I believe that the reason there are no good nicks is because the owner is asleep :)
<gpocentek> s/ou/or/
<gpocentek> oh, he sleeps sometimes? incredible
<Nightrose> persia: thx a lot - appreciate it
<persia> Nightrose: Let me know if you get stuck with CDBS.  The package looks like a great target, with clean rules, but sometimes automation needs a hint :)
<Nightrose> persia: will do thx
<gpocentek> Bixente: done (commented by persia too)
<persia> Bixente: I didn't give it a full review, just stopped after gpocentek started.
<Bixente> persia: gpocentek thanks, I look
<Fujitsu> Can anybody tell me what generates acinclude.m4?
<StevenK> Dark, dark magic.
<Fujitsu> Because the qt4 checking in qgis' instance is wrong.
<Fujitsu> I'm patching it manually for the moment, but wondering if something else is broken or it needs to be regenerated or similar.
<StevenK> What does the auto manual say about acinclude.m4?
<Fujitsu> ?
<StevenK> Neat. The autobook doesn't know anything about acinclude
<Fujitsu> Neat!
* Fujitsu waits for Debian to sort it out when Qt4.3 filters down to there.
* StevenK cobbles together a MIR
<Fujitsu> Yay, PHP4 is being EOLed in December!
* Hobbsee EOL's Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> So they can't complaing at us for removing it for much longer.
<Fujitsu> *complain
<Flannel> Yay indeed.  Finally my hosting company will give me php5, and I'll have to stop hacking around OOP deficiencies
<Fujitsu> Presumably.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Was it you who had evil PHP4-only code to maintain?
<vorlon> generating acinclude.m4 is out of scope for autotools; it's input to autotools, the same way configure.ac is
<Fujitsu> vorlon: Ah, so it's constructed by upstream?
* persia thought php4 EOL was 2.8.2008.  Can it be dropped for gutsy?
<vorlon> one assumes so
<StevenK> persia: php4 was killed in Feisty
<Hobbsee> what happens for php4 in dapper?
<Flannel> persia: 2.8.2008 > 2.10.07
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: It's not supported.
<Flannel> Hobbsee: We'll still maintain it, just like FF1.5
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, right, good
* persia points at json & others, and hunts to kill
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: thought it was in main for some reason
<Fujitsu>       php4 | 4:4.4.2-1build1 | dapper/universe | source, all
<StevenK> I thought Firefox was 2.0 in Dapper now
<Flannel> In Dapper? Oh, I suppose it isnt.  Oh, right, apache1 is, php4 isnt
<persia> Flannel: Yes, but if it's EOL 2 months in, 18 months of support is hard :(
<Fujitsu> We're unfortunately meant to be supporting it in Dapper until 2011, but I can't really see that happening.
<Flannel> persia: well, php4 was dropped entirely in feisty, so it's moot.
<Flannel> StevenK: why would 2.0 be backported to dapper?
<StevenK> Flannel: I thought it was. It seems I remembered wrongly.
<Flannel> er, I mean, if it was, it would be in -backports, not in main
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Urgh, no.
<Fujitsu> You know how bad that would be?
<StevenK> Shush, I'm sick.
<Fujitsu> Flannel: -backports and main are not comparable.
<Flannel> Fujitsu: right, I'm aware.  Which is why it being in -backports is quite different than main, but even if it were to be backported, it would only be in -backports
<Fujitsu> It's backports vs. release/updates/security, not backports vs. main.
<Flannel> Fujitsu: got references for that?  Since, I obviously misunderstand something
<Flannel> Or, just anywhere I'd look for an explanation, instead of badgering you
<Fujitsu> release/updates/security/backports are pockets. main/restricted/universe/multiverse are components. Pockets contain components.
* persia finally understands what "pocket" means.
<Flannel> hmm.  right.  I suppose they do occupy different spots in repository config lines.  I suppose I've never made that connection before
* minghua is with persia.
<Fujitsu> Pocket is Soyuz-speak. I'm not sure if it's ever used elsewhere.
<minghua> I always understood them as two different dimensions before.
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, it's used lots of places, but it only carries that meaning in Soyuz.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, that's what I meant.
<Fujitsu> And there's also the proposed pocket, which I managed to leave out of that list somehow.
<persia> Fujitsu: While you're giving a lesson in Soyuz-speak, what's the correct term for something that contains a set of pockets for a given name (e.g. Dapper)?
<Fujitsu> distrorelease is the code name, and generally used by LP people.
<persia> So distrorelease > pocket > component, right?
<Fujitsu> Right.
<Fujitsu> Then section > sourcepackage > sourcepackagerelease
<StevenK> Which means a distrorelease is a coat, which contains many pockets?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Definitely.
<persia> So, if each coat is given a number, what do we call a collection of coats?  Distribution?  Closet?
<StevenK> When is Ubuntu coming out of the closet?
* StevenK runs and hides.
* persia thinks the official reason is "As soon as it's feasible"
* Fujitsu takes some heavy components out of the pockets and throws them at StevenK.
<StevenK> persia: :-P
<persia> No, but seriously, what is the term for "Ubuntu", "Kubuntu", etc?  Are these just flavors?  If flavors, of what are they a flavor?  What is the term for Dapper, Edgy, Feisty, and Gusty as a combined unit?
* persia lost some u's in there somewhere
<Fujitsu> Ah... THey're just flavours, they don't really fit in anywhere.
<Fujitsu> persia: I think the combination of distroreleases is just.. Ubuntu.
<persia> Fujitsu: OK.  Ignoring the flavours then, what is a collection of distroreleases as part of a common thread called?
<Fujitsu> A distro.
<persia> OK.  At that point, we get into "Also affects distribution", and so there's no longer enough commonality to need collections.  Thanks.
<Fujitsu> It's a little confusing, as Ubuntu is both a flavour and distro.
<persia> Fujitsu: That's just namespace collision.  "Ubuntu" the flavour is local, "Ubuntu" the distro is global.  Unless otherwise specified, the flavour applies whenever flavours are being discussed, and never applies in other cases.
<Fujitsu> Flavors don't exist at all in LP at the moment, though I believe that's changing.
<Fujitsu> Urrrgh, I just used an Americanism.
* Fujitsu hopes qgis will build this time.
<persia> That would actually be interesting.  I wonder if different flavours would be able to provide different seeds such that the component mix was different, but that's far from on-topic for here :)
<Fujitsu> I don't like this evil autoconf stuff.
<Fujitsu> I think the seeds will be able to be assigned to a flavour in LP, but I really don't remember.
* Fujitsu looks for specs.
<Fujitsu> Yay, it passes configure.
<Fujitsu> Oh, neat, it runs configure twice.
<Fujitsu> Thanks Debian.
<persia> Fujitsu: More problematic is that builds depend on components, so if different flavours want to change the seeds for components, it gets hopeless at the sourcepackagerelease level.
<Fujitsu> persia: Components aren't for flavours to decide.
<Fujitsu> That would never work.
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  On the other hand, it makes building CDs from a flavour without promising official support much easier.
<Fujitsu> persia: In that case you just have a CD build system that allows universe too.
<persia> Fujitsu: No, because of the flavour-specific seeds.  See, it gets hopeless.  Something might happen at some point in the future if another large sponsor wants to pay to share infrastructure and source, but likely not until then.
<Fujitsu> Flavours can have differing ship seeds, but not feasibly different supported seeds.
<Fujitsu> The Soyuz spec for it is distrorelease-flavours (and its (r)depends), though not much seems to be happening there.
<persia> Fujitsu: Hmm...  That doesn't help flavours that need more variance, but then again, not all derivatives should be candidates for flavours.
<Fujitsu> persia: How does Canonical-supported status affect unsupported flavours?
<persia> Fujitsu: Well, if, as an example, someone wanted to distribute something that used jack as the default sound system (which cannot be in main now due to highly unstable rdepends upstream), and support that, this would need to be done as a derivative, rather than as a flavour (until something changes).  This is true to a lesser extent for anything wishing CDs, due to the CD builds from main restriction (which is less complicated).
<Fujitsu> persia: Ah, I wasn't considering the possibility that someone might want to support that.
<Fujitsu> I suppose it wouldn't be hard to provide overrides so packages could be dragged into a flavour-specific supported component.
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  It's the possibility of non-official support (or flavour-specific support) that makes it tricky.
<Fujitsu> But then that requires a separate archive.
<Fujitsu> I hadn't considered that possibility.
<persia> Fujitsu: No, that's not hard, but tracking rebuilds becomes hard.
<persia> Right.  At that point, derivative makes more sense than flavour.  As a result, flavour-specific seeds are probably limited to ShipSeed and DesktopSeed (or perhaps a couple other specialised seeds)
<Fujitsu> supported is the only one that isn't restricted to distribution changes.
<Fujitsu> So is the only one that must be shared.
<Fujitsu> Yay, qgis builds properly and made this publisher run.
<Fujitsu> Oh, nice, I just got a response to one of the beryl bugs asking why I was closing it when the bugs was still present in 6.10. Doubly invalid bugs, what fun.
<ajmitch> ah yes, 6.10, which never had beryl in the repository
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yep.
* Fujitsu goes to unload the dishwasher :(
* Fujitsu returns.
<geser> btw: what's beryl's future in gutsy? will it get removed?
<Fujitsu> geser: It was removed almost 24 hours ago.
<Fujitsu> Though I missed three source packages in the first batch :(
<StevenK> Beryl needs to die, so there.
<geser> Fujitsu: I've seen the bug for it but as I didn't remember where it was, I couldn't find it anymore
* StevenK sighs. How can packages.d.o suck so *hard*?
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Because whoever owns it found out Ubuntu was using it?
<Fujitsu> Bah, dinner now.
* Fujitsu runs away for a little while.
<StevenK> Sounds about right, knowing djpig.
<Fujitsu> geser: Summary was something like `Please but beryl and co. out of their misery'
<Fujitsu> I had to make it a little less boring than the normal, as it /was/ beryl.
<geser> I got used to some nice looking emerald themes. Is there a proper replacement for it in gutsy?
<Fujitsu> Compiz Fusion is getting something like Emerald soon, I believe.
<Fujitsu> Now, I really have to go.
<geser> Fujitsu: yes, that one
* Fujitsu returns.
<StevenK> I was curious about the bug number about Beryl
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Which? Removal the 1st?
* StevenK nods.
<Fujitsu> Bug #124661
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124661 in emerald-themes "Please put beryl and co. out of their misery" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124661
<StevenK> Ahh. emerald-themes. Sneaky
<Fujitsu> It has tasks for all of them.
<Fujitsu> (except beryl-settings, beryl-settings-bindings, beryl-plugins-unsupported (which I missed), heliodor and emerald (which were already gone)
<Fujitsu> I wonder if they could have split it into any more sources.
<StevenK> Probably
* minghua wonders what Fujitsu really want to say by "it is nice and buggy". :-)
<Fujitsu> minghua: I'm sure you can guess.
<Fujitsu> Oh, I do like this graph:
<Fujitsu> http://outflux.net/ubuntu/stats/
<TheMuso> pfft graphs.
<persia> Fujitsu: Nifty.
<geser> what happened?
<persia> geser: beryl
<Fujitsu> For once beryl did something good.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh nice.... :)
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: beryl, or the removal of it?
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Well, by being removed.
* ajmitch sheds a tear
<Fujitsu> I know, I feel terrible for destroying such quality code.
* persia hands Fujitsu a very small serviette
<calc> ajmitch: good morning
<ajmitch> hey calc 
* calc hopes his laptop lasts until he gets on the plane
<ajmitch> you need a one with a hand-crank
<calc> i need one of those new ubuntu mobile systems
* ajmitch hasn't seen anything fancy announced yet
<calc> it hasn't been announced yet
<calc> hell its really just started but from what i have seen it will be very nice
* persia wonders how /usr/bin/ld: i386 architecture of input file `../../source/linux/gtksourceview/gtksourceview/.libs/libgtksourceview-1.0.a(gtksourcebuffer.o)' is incompatible with i386:x86-64 output could be generated, and whether the problem is in the subject package or in gtksourceview.
* calc wonders why ppc keeps timing out on ooo build
* ajmitch is looking at getting one of those new neo1973 phones with openmoko on them to hack on
* Fujitsu is thinking he'll probably also get one at some point.
<Fujitsu> I've got about the oldest Nokia phone in existence.
<TheMuso> WHat toolkit does openmoko use?
<ajmitch> gtl+
<Fujitsu> GTK+, AFAIK
<ajmitch> s/l/k/
<TheMuso> Sweet.
<ajmitch> fairly standard stuff
<TheMuso> Just what I wanted to hear.
<ajmitch> I managed to get the whole image built yesterday
<ajmitch> you can test it in qemu
<Fujitsu> It's not even ridiculously expensive.
<ajmitch> no, I'm getting one as part of a group order
* TheMuso hopes he doesn't have to replace hish phone till 3G transition time.
<TheMuso> s/hish/his/
<porthose> could you refer me to a package that uses cdbs so I can learn by example please
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: Are you running it in a vanilla qemu?
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: nope
<ajmitch> you can download & build the whole set with 1 makefile
<ajmitch> which builds a custom qemu as well
<ajmitch> it emulates some more phone-specific hardware
<persia> porthose: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources suggests pmount as a good example.
<Fujitsu> Right, I'm currently checking that out.
<ajmitch> MokoMakefile?
<persia> porthose: Also, look at the CDBS Documentation (from duckcorp): there are some example rules files there as well.
<Fujitsu> ajmitch: That takes a while.
<calc> Fujitsu: i have a nokia 2160 somewhere i think
<calc> from ~ 1996
<ajmitch> Fujitsu: I know, I built it
<calc> it doens't work any more of course since it used tdma
<porthose> persia: Looking at duckcorp now thanks for pmount example
<Fujitsu> I see it even has stuff like gnome-vfs. Nice.
<jekil> if i have this lintian errors, http://rafb.net/p/MaMZZH71.html after include that copyright in debian/copyright i must delete this files?
<persia> jekil: Are all those different licenses?  Also, is this a source error or a binary error?
<jekil> persia: yes, all different, bsd, gpl.. it's a source
<jekil> i am packaging a source that's hell
<persia> jekil: OK.  If upstream distributes all those license files, and they are all different, and you're not including them in your binary packages, you'll want to override the lintian error.
<jekil> and if i am including it in my binary deb? (the app is in ruby, so there isn't difference)
<persia> jekil: There is a difference.  A source package is a .dsc file, a .diff.gz file and an orig.tar.gz file.  A binary package is a .deb file.  You can check the contents of your binaries with dpkg --contents
<persia> jekil: Also, is this http://framework.metasploit.com/msf/?
<jekil> persia: yeah
<jekil> persia: the source tar.gz is hell
<persia> jekil: Did you read the license for downloading the source?  I'm not even sure that the software can be modified enough to make a package, and still comply with that license.  Further, it certainly would have to be in multiverse, as we cannot modify it, and it cannot be sold for profit.
<man-di> jekil: the lintian error are about your binary package
<man-di> jekil: this means you should not include them in the binary package, debian/copyright should have all the needed infos
<jekil> persia: i read it, it can be distribuited for non-profit, you think that i must write on ubuntu-legal or whatever?
<persia> jekil: There's no ubuntu-legal.  My concern is 1) there are companies that distribute Ubuntu for profit, and 2) that Ubuntu likes to be able to patch software without violating the license.
<jekil> persia: ok, so this software cannot be packaged
<persia> jekil: If you think it's a good candidate, by all means, send it to REVU.  I'd suggest checking against http://www.debian.org/social_contract to determine if it's OK to package.  As far as I know, the only licensing differences between Ubuntu and Debian are 1) GFDL is considered free, and 2) binary firmware without source is considered acceptable in some cases.
<persia> jekil: That's my thought, but I'm not an authority regarding copyright law.
<persia> (or tort law, which is more likely to apply in this case)
<Q-FUNK> bryce: it seems I got upstream to accept my patch to auto-generate ChangeLog from the git commit log for -amd.
<persia> Q-FUNK: Congratulations!  That is a great feature.
<Kmos> persia: bug 121800
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 121800 in lastfm "Please sync lastfm (1.3.0.62-2) from debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121800
<Kmos> can you do the sync ?
<man-di> Kmos: subscribe u-u-s and wait, it will be done
<Kmos> man-di: that's done
<man-di> Kmos: then wait
<persia> Kmos: No.  Only archive-admins can sync.  Did you put it in the U-U-S queue?
<Kmos> yep
<Kmos> :)
<persia> OK.  If nobody else gets it before I look at the queue again, I'll review it.
<Kmos> :) thx
<persia> Kmos: No problem.  Thanks for following the process :)
<Kmos> =)
<Kmos> persia: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5599
<Kmos> bug 120816
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 120816 in aegis-virus-scanner "Upgrade aegis-virus-scanner to version 2" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/120816
<Kmos> v1.x isn't anymore supported by author
<Fujitsu> What's the Debian equivalent of marking a bug as Invalid?
<persia> Kmos: That's another one for which you want to subscribe the sponsors.  I've just looked, and it appears today was a slow day for sponsoring: I'll probably get to it soon.
<Q-FUNK> persia: yup.  we at least now have a vague idea of what they changed upstream.  until now, upstream didn't provide any ChangeLog at all.
<persia> Fujitsu: Won't Fix, or sending a nastygram to -closed.
<Kmos> persia: I need you to check the package.. isn't complete. I can't create the gnome desktop file
<persia> Q-FUNK: That's annoying.  Where there's a tarball, there should be a ChangeLog
<persia> Kmos: Ah.  What problem are you haveing with the .desktop file?
<Q-FUNK> persia: there's no tarball.  they only exist in X.org git.
<persia> Q-FUNK: That explains it.  That's frustrating for entirely different reasons :)
<Q-FUNK> persia: precisely. :)
<Kmos> persia: i really don't know what to configure to make it create the desktop file
<Kmos> and the rules dh_ command for that
<persia> Kmos: I'd recommend enabling dh_install, and using debian/install to put share/aegis-virus-scanner.desktop in usr/share/applications.  You might want to install some of share/icons/* as well.
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: the wontfix tag.
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: either that or if the bug simply doesn't make sense, it gets closed.
<Kmos> persia: what should i create on debian/install file ?
<persia> Kmos: man dh_install
<Kmos> ok
<Kmos> thx
<persia> bryce: Is the Ubuntu version of luit maintained at git://anongit.freedesktop.org/git/xorg/app/luit, or is that upstream debian/ ?
<persia> OK.  Different question.  Am I correct that XS-Vcs-* should point to the packaging repository, rather than to the upstream source?
<RAOF> That's the only way I've seen it used
<Fujitsu> Pointing to the upstream source is wrong.
<persia> Fujitsu: Thanks.  There's more to fix than I thought :)
<persia> DktrKranz: I'm looking at bug 112313, and it FTBFS for me (see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29898/).  Any ideas?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 112313 in xmms-liveice "xmms-liveice causes a segmentation fault if the playlist is emptied while playing" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/112313
* DktrKranz looks
<persia> DktrKranz: Thanks.
<DktrKranz> I understood why, it was a typo introduced by me
<DktrKranz> look: if(if title
<persia> DktrKranz: Could you stick a diff in a pastebin?  I'll wedge it in.
* DktrKranz likes ifs, he adds them twice!
<DktrKranz> no
<persia> Ah.  Nevermind.  If it's just 3 character deletion, I don't need a diff :)
<DktrKranz> *np
<DktrKranz> anyway, I'll try to build it again to see if compiles, but it should
<persia> DktrKranz: "if(title && strcmp(title,oldtitle) && lv_conf.title_streaming && lv_conf.header_format){" is what you want, right?
<DktrKranz> that's it
<persia> great.  Trying another build now.  Thanks for the quick fix.
<DktrKranz> thanks to you for pointing that out
<persia> DktrKranz: That worked.  Thanks again.
<DktrKranz> again, thanks to you :)
<DktrKranz> bug 122183 is affecting feisty. gutsy version does not build correctly and user reported it is an issue to be solved. anyone to mentor me on a possible SRU?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 122183 in plr "postgresql-8.1-plr for Feisty missing plr.so and plr.sql" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122183
<DktrKranz> after a brief look, this issue is due to the fact feisty version builds against libpq-dev 8.2
<DktrKranz> while plr looks for files in /usr/lib/postgresql/8.1, while it should search in /usr/lib/postgresql/8.2 (or 8.?)
* AndyP catches up on the fallout from his email
<Fujitsu> Hm, what's this new lpia arch, and why are there no buildds for it?
<AndyP> low power on intel?
<persia> DktrKranz: That sounds like a conf file or rules file change.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: embedded?
<Fujitsu> AndyP, TheMuso: Looks like it.
<DktrKranz> persia, that's it
<persia> Fujitsu: Think Samsung Q1 and similar equipment.
<DktrKranz> s/8.1/8.\?/
<Fujitsu> It has appeared on LP now.
<DktrKranz> I have got a debdiff which fixes the inclusion problem. What's the procedure in these cases?
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<Fujitsu> Night TheMuso.
<persia> DktrKranz: For gutsy, just subscribe U-U-S.  For an SRU, nominate it for a previous release, and attach a (tested) debdiff for the SRU to the bug, and subscribe U-U-S.  It's good to mention it's an SRU in a comment, to make sure that someone accepts the nomination.
<DktrKranz> do I need to document it in changelog too?
<DktrKranz> e.g: SRU bugfix or some?
<persia> DktrKranz: You'll have two separate changelogs.  One for gutsy (just normal), and one for feisty updates (look at other changelogs there for examples).
<DktrKranz> gutsy is not affected, only feisty is
* DktrKranz looks
<persia> DktrKranz: What about "gutsy version does not build correctly"?
<DktrKranz> backporting it for feisty does not build
<DktrKranz> but gutsy build is successful
<persia> DktrKranz: Ah.  My misunderstanding then.  In that case, just prepare an SRU debdiff, and subscribe U-U-S.
<Fujitsu> Mark the Ubuntu task as Invalid, and propose it for Feisty.
<DktrKranz> ok, I'll look at some changelogs to see if I need to add additional info
<DktrKranz> I nominated it for feisty
<persia> Fujitsu: Won't that hide it from the queue without approval of the nomination?
<Fujitsu> persia: Hm, true. How annoying.
* persia approves for sake of ease of sponsoring, rather than as the result of a review
<persia> DktrKranz: Follow Fujitsu's advice for now.  We'll have to think about this a bit more to get a good process in place :)
<DktrKranz> ok, marking gutsy as invalid and attach a debdiff for feisty-proposed, right?
<persia> Right.
<DktrKranz> just one second
<persia> Fujitsu: You seem well integrated with the LP crowd.  Any ideas on how to make it easier for contributors to recommend SRUs?
<Fujitsu> persia: Um, possibly have people regularly check over the list of things to accept/reject, but that's probably not going to work.
<persia> Fujitsu: Not unless we define a team, and I think we're short enough on staffing for sponsors already.
<Fujitsu> Right. Not sure how best to do it.
<Fujitsu> The only way I can see is to leave the task open, but that is hackish.
<persia> Fujitsu: Yep.  Perhaps set a guideline that approving an SRU task should be done on request, unless it's obviously crack, and telling people to ask here?
<Fujitsu> I think so.
* persia adds an agenda item for the next MOTU Meeting, as SRUs tend to be sensitive
<AndyP> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6005 should be easy to review now that upstream has removed their debian dir for me
<DktrKranz> debdiff attached and U-U-S subscribed
* Fujitsu wonders why he has privileges to accept/decline bug #77442.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 77442 in compiz "No screen updates when using desktop-effects with vnc" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77442
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<Fujitsu> vnc was demoted, so I get privileges over all the main tasks. How nice.
<persia> Fujitsu: Interesting...  Sounds like a bug to me.
<ScottK> AndyP: In addition to reviewing the e-mail responses to your message, you may also want to look at the IRC logs.
<Fujitsu> persia: Yep, and it's related to another I filed months ago.
<ScottK> Good morning everyone.  I think I got my network sorted now.
<persia> Good day ScottK
<AndyP> ScottK: i scanned through my irc backlog and picked up on some comments
<ScottK> OK.  Just making sure.
<AndyP> i didn't expect the level of debate it threw up but it seems like healthy debate to me
* ScottK didn't either.  
<persia> AndyP: It is healthy.  Thanks for helping prod it.
* ScottK thought ask before you merge was non-controversial and well established.
<persia> ScottK: I think it was new in edgy (maybe even late edgy).  I've never seen real controversy about it previously, aside from people grumbling when either it wasn't done, or the last uploader wasn't available.
<AndyP> ScottK: i did too, really, but it's the method of asking i was looking into, and perhaps what to do if the previous uploader is not contactable
<ScottK> Right, but it's clear now that we don't even have consensus on asking.
<persia> ScottK: Strangely, yes.
<Fujitsu> When I started in early Edgy, it was just common etiquette. It wasn't defined anywhere at all; you just knew.
<Fujitsu> \/win 9
<Fujitsu> Oops
<ScottK> One other point is that since I merge the same package over and over, I'm more motivated to work with Debian to reduce that diff.  
<persia> Fujitsu: Really?  I never heard anything about it for Dapper.  Perhaps new for Edgy?
<ScottK> I guess that's the problem is that common etiquette isn't so common.
<persia> ScottK: True, although I find that when someone else merges it badly, I'm even more motivated to work with Debian and upstream.
<Fujitsu> My involvement prior to Edgy was in #ubuntu and the Australian Team. Nothing developerish, so I really don't know.
<ScottK> As an example, I've gotten clamav down to where there is a one line diff in an init between Ubuntu and Debian.
* ScottK tends to feel motivated to strangle the individual in question, but that's just me.
<Hobbsee> dapper was quite different
<persia> Fujitsu: I was not involved for Edgy (left just before Dapper release (May-ish), and returned early Feisty (December-ish), so there's a bit of a gap in my memory.
<persia> ScottK: for clamav, can't you do something nifty with postint and lsb?
<ScottK> It's more a matter of doing the research to make sure the diff would be appropriate for Debian and then sending a patch.
<persia> ScottK: Ah.
<ScottK> If someone would send $TIME here, I'd get it done right away.
<Hobbsee> dapper we had a small team of people, who were very involved, who were all very good, who could all upload, and who had more time.  and one wiki page of everything.   that's not still the case
<Fujitsu> Now we have a small team of people who don't have much time, and a small group who don't have much time and can't upload. Lovely.
<Hobbsee> it's probably a bit bigger group now
<persia> Fujitsu: Both groups are growing.  We've eight or so new MOTUs so far in gutsy, and I keep seeing new names with <100 karma in the UUS queue, so I imagine the other group is growing as well.
<Fujitsu> It seems smaller than Edgy/Feisty, but that might just be me.
<persia> Fujitsu: It's certainly less noisy here, but it seems about the same in terms of archive churn.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: a lot of hte really good people are inactive
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Good point.
* AndyP misses bddebian
* ScottK just showed up 8 months ago and sees a lot of faces missing.
<persia> I think rather that a lot of the people very active in edgy and feisty are inactive, as I don't think there is strong correlation between activity and skill (although experience tends to generate skill)
<Hobbsee> a lot of the dapper people are now inactive
<Hobbsee> i think they got a bit older, and had less time
<persia> Hobbsee: It's not just age.  It's also time - it's a lot of work to keep up.
<Hobbsee> true
<ScottK> Which is one reason process churn is a bad idea unless really needed.
* persia only recognises a few people from Dapper days, and most are core-dev now
* StevenK has fond memories of Dapper.
<persia> ScottK: I'd actually argue against that.  I think a lot of our processes need work, as they previously relied on the herculean efforts of such legendary figures as The MOTU Trinity, etc.
<persia> Dapper was fun, but there weren't 8 million users to worry about.
<ScottK> Need work, fine, but churn no.
<persia> ScottK: OK.  Agreed.
<Hobbsee> persia: remember - core dev doesnt mean no work on MOTU
<ScottK> For example this whole ask before you merge thing is process churn IMO.  There was a clear common understanding even if not well documented.
<ScottK> No we're going to engage in several rounds of navel gazing to figure out what the right thing to do is.
<ScottK> No/Now
<persia> Hobbsee: Right, but core-dev usually means either a position with Canonical, a position that allows truly significant time to be spent on Ubuntu, or a Student (but those tend to lose time after a year or two)
<Hobbsee> persia: core dev has nothing to do with canonical
<persia> ScottK: Yep.  Gutsy is good for that, as we'll want to be in best shape for the next LTS, to make it really shine.
<Hobbsee> persia: as in, if you're good enough for core dev, then you're probably on the canonical radar, but that's not a direct link
<persia> Hobbsee: Officially, no, but it's tricky to get into core-dev if one can't commit at least 30 hours a week to Ubuntu, and probably more like 50.
* ScottK finds it all a great disctraction from doing actual work.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, i dont know about that
<Hobbsee> persia: that's a personal thing, on hwo much time you have
* ScottK imagines Hobbsee would know.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: more to the point - i wouldnt say you needed to spend 30+ hours on ubuntu to be in core
<persia> Hobbsee: Perhaps.
<ScottK> Of course I'm kind of allergic to process, so who knows.
<Hobbsee> heck - how much of the time is spent on irc?
<Hobbsee> vs actually uploading things?
<persia> Hobbsee: Sure, most of the time is IRC, when the person could be doing other things, but that also depends on the nature of  the other things the person does.
<Hobbsee> true
<persia> And, if someone can only commit ~20 hours a week to being on IRC, are they really connected enough to work in the Ubuntu culture?
<Hobbsee> sure
<persia> (ignoring legacy committers for the time being)
<Hobbsee> or at least, if not, there's some problem with our procedures
<Hobbsee> a person should nto have to read backscroll of irc to see all of the decisions
<Hobbsee> we need to use our mailing list more
<persia> Hobbsee: OK.  I'd agree with that, but I think it falls under "problem with practices", rather than "not an issue" at the current time.
<Hobbsee> granted.
<persia> On the other hand, one of the things that was exciting about Ubuntu when it was starting was that it was real-time: IRC and wiki, rather than mailing lists and waiting.  I'm not sure how much of that should be lost in the interest of encouraging people to spend ~10 hours a week and have full upload rights.
<ScottK> Work it out on IRC and document it on the ML is not a bad way to work.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: true that
<persia> ScottK: Exactly.
<Hobbsee> full upload rights is a bit of a red herring, i find.  there's just not that much use i have for main stuff
<Hobbsee> excluding the seeds, and stuff i'm currently working on
* ScottK finds it useful for Hobbsee to be able to upload main stuff ;-)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<persia> Hobbsee: That's just you.  Think about the greater picture.  If I had upload rights to main, and took an engagement that limited me to ~10 hours a week on Ubuntu, I'm not sure that others would appreciate me uploading random things that took my fancy when I was around.
<Hobbsee> persia: dunno - because, if you were the "maintainer" per se...then they may not touch it
<persia> Right, but I'm against the very concept of "Maintainer".  It seems contrary to the discussion that brought Ubuntu into being.
<ScottK> Then pick a more moderate word that means "Person that normally pays attention to this package".
<Hobbsee> main's a bit different, as in, because someone has to be staying on top of each package's bugs.
<persia> Hobbsee: Sure, someone has to track the bugs, but to date, nobody has complained about my (sponsored) uploads to main based on my random interests.  I believe this to be because whenever I've worked in main, I've been around, and responsive.
* ScottK ponders filing a bug asking for removal of the "Offer to mentor someone to fix this bug" link for LP, since no one who might need mentoring can actually do that.
<persia> ScottK: I think that's a good feature.  We should use it more.
<ScottK> Sure, but for LP/malone it's not relevant.
<eagles0513875> ScottK: so what ur saying is i can file a but to ask someone to help me debug an issue even though ill be the one doing the debugging
<Hobbsee> persia: oh true
<ScottK> See, I slept and so my bitterness quotient is revitalized.
* Hobbsee shrugs
<ScottK> eagles0513875: You can file a bug and someone may offer to help you with it.  They may just fix it themselves.
<Hobbsee> acutally, they might mark it as a support request
<Hobbsee> better to just ask in here
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  Shrugging is probably the right response for now.  Eventually, interested parties will come up with reasonable proposals, and those responsible for guiding the community will suggest how we should proceed.
<Hobbsee> or #ubuntu+1
<eagles0513875> ScottK: im having a problem which hasnt fixed itself and ive already tried a number of things
<Hobbsee> persia: why do i get the distinct feeling that i'm regarded as one of them, as are the rest that have been doing MOTU stuff for a long while, or who are smart?
<persia> Hobbsee: Because you have a sufficient sense of responsibility?
<Hobbsee> persia: was more thinking of the people who were regarded to know what they were doing
<eagles0513875> Hobbsee: u certainly give an impression u know what ur doing
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: which is exactly why i suspect i'm being watched for a response
<eagles0513875> no i know ur in the ubuntu+1 room i dont expect u to respond 
<persia> Hobbsee: Sorry.  Took me a while to determine how I had been unclear.  I'm saying that your sense of responsibility is the reason you are one of the people who is likely to develop a proposal for how we should do things.
<Hobbsee> persia: ah right.
<Hobbsee> persia: i wish we'd got something more productive out of our discussions in the smokers bar at UDS, but unfortunately not
<Hobbsee> jono destroyed that, with his all new beer greeting, and all the others coming in
<persia> Whereas, the people responsible for the community direction tend to be members of the CC
<Hobbsee> CC is a very small group, tend nto to have direction for day to day stuff
<persia> Hobbsee: That's not really the right venue anyway (although it tends to be my favorite)
<Hobbsee> persia: well... :)
<eagles0513875> lol
<Hobbsee> persia: the rigth people were there, so...
<Hobbsee> and hell, they werent moving, if htey could have a smoke, and i wasnt moving, being absolutely exhausted
<persia> Hobbsee: Exactly - that's why it tends to be my favorite :)
<eagles0513875> Hobbsee: whats a good program to use to play around with source files
* Hobbsee notes that walking from the hotel, to the university, and getting lost, and then to the centre of sevilla, and around it, then all the way back, is kinda exhausting!
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: $texteditorofchoice
<persia> Regarding CC, I think that some of the issues (one team vs. maintainers, how do we recruit, etc.) are matters of interest to CC, but only after we've sufficiently thrashed the issues to prepare two or three well documented proposals.
<eagles0513875> Hobbsee: ok lol
<eagles0513875> ill use kate then
<Hobbsee> persia: true.  may even be the tech board - but we *should* be able to fix this ourselves, as we know the problems.
<Hobbsee> persia: i believe that jono plans to do a big MOTU drive, so we need our sponsorship processes well described, and we need our people to be up to scratch, and responsible.
<Hobbsee> before that point
<Hobbsee> and if htey're not responsible, then we either dont let them get upload rights in the first place, or look at removing them.
<persia> Hobbsee: Not the tech board.  The problems aren't technical, they're social.  How should developers work together?  We should be able to fix it, but if we reach two or three models, rather than one, someone needs to decide.
<Hobbsee> granted.
<persia> Right.  The MOTU drive is in late October / early November, right?
<AndyP> what's a MOTU drive?
* Hobbsee will attempt to put some serious thought into it, sometime after she's done uni assignments, resume, and other such things
<Hobbsee> AndyP: give me more blood!
<Hobbsee> AndyP: give me more motu blood!
<persia> AndyP: It's like a cattle drive, only using developers and laserpointers :)
<eagles0513875> lol
<Hobbsee> haha
<Hobbsee> ooh, shiny
<AndyP> hehe
<AndyP> ok now answer my question seriously ;)
<Hobbsee> AndyP: but we did.
<persia> Hobbsee: Good luck.  I think we sensibly have until next month before we need to really get it all proposed properly, but I may not be gauging things correctly.
<Hobbsee> persia: thanks.
* Fujitsu heads to bed.
<Hobbsee> persia: it'd probalby help if i got off irc for a while,b ut i need to stay on until the 19th, at least.
<Hobbsee> night Fujitsu 
<Fujitsu> Night Hobbsee.
<persia> AndyP: More seriously, it's a international effort to recruit new developers to Ubuntu, including Contributors, MOTU, etc.
<eagles0513875> thsi si to everyone here whether ur a programer or not i have to say kubuntu x86_64 is the best 64bit os i refuse to use anything else
<persia> Hobbsee: Understood.  Note however, that not being on IRC might make the discussions based on any proposal more difficult :)
<AndyP> ah i see *puts down the scalpel*
<eagles0513875> where would i make a proposal
<persia> eagles0513875: What sort of proposal?
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, true that
<eagles0513875> persia: another version of kubuntu that centers around clustering
* persia suggests ignoring IRC for a couple hours a day
<eagles0513875> i honestly think canonical would make alot of money off it
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: provide someone to do the work.....
<persia> eagles0513875: Most cluster arrangements are better run without X, except for the master station.  You may be interested in some variation of ubuntu-server for the nodes, and Kubuntu for the head.
* Hobbsee waves the magic wand and does it
<eagles0513875> persia: what i was thinking was using pxe and do a network boot
* persia notes that there has been a recent call for new contributors to ubuntu-server
<eagles0513875> persia: y cant the basic ubuntu server be the ubuntu desktop version
<eagles0513875> since u can download all the dev pkgs
<persia> eagles0513875: In that case, you might also want to look at some of the work that has been done in Edubuntu to netboot the thin clients.
<eagles0513875> ok
<persia> eagles0513875: The big reason not to run desktop on a server is that X and friends take up too much RAM, interrupts, and processor time.
* Hobbsee notes that pitti probably doesnt want to get a phonecall on a saturday afternoon.
<eagles0513875> but kubuntu is so light weight when it comes to ram thoguh
<Hobbsee> pity
<persia> Hobbsee: Just wait two more days :)
<persia> eagles0513875: Yes, but not as light as ubuntu-server
<Hobbsee> persia: it's time sensitive
<persia> Hobbsee: In that case...
<eagles0513875> how much lighter is the server version
<Hobbsee> persia: as in, it really should have been discussed on friday, but i totally forgota bout it, until after pitti had left london
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: it doesnt run an x server.
<AndyP> the server kernel is different to the desktop kernel also
<persia> eagles0513875: I don't have a kubuntu installation, but probably about 60MB or so.
<Hobbsee> persia: well, at least, irc, to go and drink beer
<DarkMageZ> eagles0513875, i'm counting 100MB less ram usage from not using an xserver alone.
<eagles0513875> wow
<eagles0513875> hummm
<persia> DarkMageZ: A lot of that is probably X resources stored by your clients as well.
<DarkMageZ> probably. but still relevant to the point.
<eagles0513875> how do i move a folder using shell
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: like they told you in #ubuntu+1
<eagles0513875> sry
* Hobbsee notes this isnt the support channel
<persia> eagles0513875: now you're getting into #ubuntu territory.  or maybe #ubuntu+1
<eagles0513875> sry 
<eagles0513875> persia: i think though in todays day and age the 60mb wont make a difference or would it
<Hobbsee> on a server?  yes.
<Hobbsee> old machiens are still used as servers...
<DarkMageZ> persia, so i've waited a week for a responce from the debian maintainer. no responce. what should i do?
<eagles0513875> older machines though in a cluster environment
<persia> eagles0513875: Even for a new machine, it makes a huge difference.  For a cluster, even more so, as you might want to focus on compute power, and only purchase 64MB RAM for each node.
<eagles0513875> true
<persia> eagles0513875: More importantly, it's completely pointless - the cluster nodes will never need to run an X application, so loading the libraries into RAM just wastes space and CPU power.
<eagles0513875> in the server version of the distro does pxe tftp dhcp and all that some come pre installed
<Hobbsee> why dont you try it......
<persia> Lastly, for clustering or a server, you want to focus on throughput, rather than responsiveness, which means a differently tuned kernel.
<eagles0513875> ill download and run as a virtual machine
<persia> eagles0513875: Take a look at the dependencies of ubuntu-server.
<eagles0513875> ok
* ScottK needs a function key programmed to say "Backports are for new features.  Severe bugs should be fixed via the SRU process, because ..."
<persia> DarkMageZ: Debian is slow.  You could ask for other opinions here.  I'm not tempted to introduce dpatch without some feedback, and the guidelines on the wiki say not to change the patch system, but there have been exceptions in the past.
<persia> ScottK: heh.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: er, have you heard of the predefined responses, and keescook's greasemonkey script?
<eagles0513875> i see what u guys mean shaves of 300 or so mb off the download
* persia wonders why the developer greasemonkey scripts discussed at UDS still haven't been packaged
<Hobbsee> persia: ENOTIME, i expect.  which ones?
<persia> Hobbsee: I forget.  Tollef uploaded a bunch of them to err.no during the session, but I completely failed to bookmark it.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I have heard of them.  I haven't had time to investigate them.
<eagles0513875> i hate the way they limit download speeds during the day here
<Hobbsee> persia: i wonder where tehy are, then
<eagles0513875> persia: r the commands pretty much the same as in kubuntu 
<persia> Hobbsee: My vague memory was that there were a couple different ones for LP, and a good clean one got hacked together, and one for the wiki was in progress when the room was taken over by the next session.  I never heard about anything else.
<Hobbsee> persia: this was developer weather report stuff, by any chance?
<persia> eagles0513875: 1) unless replying to someone, it's better to ask the channel, 2) that's a support request, and off-topic here, 3) yes.
<persia> Hobbsee: No, special greasemonkey session.
<Hobbsee> persia: oh right.  i'll poke mithrandir over it, then
<Hobbsee> i cant see it is
<Hobbsee> er, here
<eagles0513875> persia: sry
<Hobbsee> parts of norwegian are even starting to make sense, looking at this
<eagles0513875> lol
<persia> Hobbsee: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/uds-sevilla/2007-05-10/ has a list of some of the other people you might also want to check with.
<DarkMageZ> persia, how could the introduction of a patch system be a bad thing?
<Hobbsee> persia: ah, thanks
<Hobbsee> DarkMageZ: just more stuff to merge back
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, i remember that day
<persia> DarkMageZ: Well, it changes how the package is maintained, which may annoy the maintainer, it makes it more difficult to use grep to determine if a security issue was resolved, which may annoy the security team, it adds changes not required for the fix, which makes the patches on patches.ubuntu.com less useful, and Debian specifically asked us not to do it without checking.
<Hobbsee> ohhhh....*now* i remember what we did that morning.
<joejaxx> hi2all
<persia> joejaxx: Good day.
<Hobbsee> hi joejaxx 
<joejaxx> :)
<persia> Kmos: Have you tested Debian lastfm?  At first glance, it looks OK, but I'm a little worried about the device management changes
<persia> OK.  Requeueing.
<yamal> an improved sabnzbd upload is awaiting the keen eyes of the reviewers at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6012
<eagles0513875> Hobbsee: !@#)O*$& now im having that problem with something else too
<Hobbsee> ....and this is my problem because?
<eagles0513875> its not
<eagles0513875> im just venting
<persia> yamal: Great work, but it really needs licensing for the template files before it can be advocated
<persia> eagles0513875: Again, unless specifically replying to someone, it's best to vent at the channel instead (and this may not be the ideal channel)
<eagles0513875> persia: sry
<yamal> persia: yup, I figured that... allready send mail to upstream author - no response yet but at least it didn bounce either
<persia> yamal: Extra thanks for adding the comment on REVU that it wasn't ready yet - it makes our lives easier (although you shouldn't be surprised at a lack of response)
<yamal> just hoping any other problems/mistakes/omissions be identified so i can iron these out in the meantime
<persia> yamal: You've at least said you've fixed everything I found.  Maybe someone else can find something, but most people don't like to review when there's no chance of advocation, as they know that there will be another release soon enough anyway.
<persia> s/release/revision/
<ScottK> But let me second persia's thanks for commenting up front on the license issue.  It makes me very inclined to put you at the top of my list for REVUing once it's fixed.
<yamal> ScottK: I'll remind you of that once the time has come :)
<ScottK> yamal: No problem.
<ScottK> Doing that was considerate of my time investment and I like to reward that.
<persia> AndyP: I've added a short comment to 6005 based on a very brief review.  Looks like you'll have to chase upstream again :(  You probably want to make sure you've run all the automated tests you can think of as well.  Sorry for the brevity, but I wanted you to get a response to your request, and am out of time.
<LucidFox> Is there a guide for using debhelper with scons?
<broonie> Not that I'm aware of; I can't think of anything that I'd put in such a guide TBH.
<ScottK> Certainly not right now unless the FTBFS has been fixed...
<broonie> ScottK: Packages can avoid that if they want; it's orthogonal to debhelper anyway.
<ScottK> Certainly.
<broonie> LucidFox: What would you expect to find in such a guide?
<LucidFox> broonie> well, how to create a debian/rules file to use with scons
<LucidFox> but never mind, I think I figured it out now
<broonie> Ah; as far as that goes the SCons interface is very similar to make.
<crimsun> whoever backported 9.0.48.0.0ubuntu1~7.04.0 needs to stay on top of gutsy uploads.
<crimsun> flashplugin-nonfree 9.0.48.0.0ubuntu1~7.04.0, that is.
<crimsun> ubuntu1 is broken; debian/config was not updated.
<gnomefreak> crimsun: i pinged him waiting for an answer
<ScottK> crimsun: How did it get backported?  There's no feisty-backports bug for it.
<crimsun> gnomefreak: I closed 125938; the cause is clear.
<crimsun> ScottK: it went into -proposed.
<ScottK> Ah.  Sorry.
<gnomefreak> crimsun: ok looking at flash in feisty
<ScottK> Hobbsee: There is a new clamav (0.91 - no API incompatibilities).  It's not in Debian yet.  I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to jump Debian now to get it out before Tribe 3 and get more testing (and more upgrade testing as we have some recent postinst changes and got bit by a kernel bug on the last one).  Thoughts Ms. Release Manager?
<gnomefreak> crimsun: i have it built im testing atm
<ScottK> Any Ruby package fans here?
<crimsun> Kmos: please do not assign ALSA bugs to me.  I no longer lead that Launchpad team.  As long as ubuntu-audio is subscribed, that is sufficient.
<gnomefreak> crimsun: btw latest uploda of flash to gutsy can not be grabbed with apt-get
<geser> ScottK: AFAIK does clamav 0.91 fix a security bug, so it would be good to have it in
<gnomefreak> is it dput revu changes or dput changes revu?
<geser> the first
<gnomefreak> ty
<Hobbsee> ScottK: answer a) it's in universe, so i dont care, from RM POV (as in, only main freezes), b)  that sounds sane, because people will dist-upgrade around the tribes
<gnomefreak> crimsun: if you want flash its fixed and uploaded to revu i can give you link once i see it there
<Hobbsee> oh, and c) i'm not the release manager...yet
<Hobbsee> ScottK: erm, c) s/yet/possibly yet/
* Hobbsee --> bed.
<SourceContact> any motus interested in attending a development meeting for TimeVault at #ubuntutimevault?
<Kmos> crimsun: ok, sorry..
<gnomefreak> hmmmmm revu is either slow or broken
<joejaxx> SourceContact: timevault?
<SourceContact> yep: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeVaultScreenShots
<SourceContact> and https://launchpad.net/timevault/
<leonel> ScottK: I've responded  thinking I was answering your email and  not  the  launchpad  mail :P
<gnomefreak> any revu admins around? revu seems to not be working
<Kmos> Categories=GNOME;Application;Utility;X-Red-Hat-Base;
<Kmos> this on .desktop aren't wrong for ubuntu
<Kmos> right?
<ScottK> leonel: No problem.  Isn't Feisty squirrelmail patched to be the same as Gusty?
<gnomefreak> feisty-proposed packages can be uploaded to revu right?
<leonel> ScottK: they have the security patches applied but   Feisty has 1.4.9a  and  gutsy is  1.4.10a   and there are more than 20 bugfixes 
<ScottK> Ah, so Gutsy == Feisty for security, but their are other bugfixes in Gutsy?
<ScottK> leonel: Are there any new features in 1.4.10a?
<leonel> ScottK: bugfixes only  let me check  right
<ScottK> leonel: Backports is for new features, not bugfixes, so it'd helpful to your cause if you answered, yes, there is a new feature.
<leonel> ScottK: I'm checking that
<ScottK> OK.
<leonel> ScottK:  no new features  bugfixes 
<ScottK> OK.  Thanks.  Let me think about that one then.
<softman> hi
<ivoks> how about adding this to ubuntu:
<ivoks> https://forge.vodafonebetavine.net/projects/vodafonemobilec/
<ivoks> vodafone's tool for 3G cards - GPL
<ScottK> Go for it.
<ivoks> this would be easy bite for some newcomers
<ivoks> it already has structured debian/ dir
<Kmos> that will be nice =)
<gnomefreak> since when cant you do a debdiff on the source dirs.? 
<Kmos> wine 0.9.41-0ubuntu1 at gutsy now =)
<aquo> hi
<softman> hi aquo
<gnomefreak> what do i do after uploading debdiff to get it into feisty-proposed?
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Subscribe UUS and a MOTU will upload it.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: ty revu seemed not to update after uploading it 
<gnomefreak> UUS is ubuntu-universe-sponsers?
<ScottK> Yes
<gnomefreak> ScottK: done ty again 
<ScottK> Unfortunately I don't have time to look at it right now.  I'm up to my ears in a libqt4-ruby SRU.
<ScottK> leonel: Why don't you go ahead and add Feisty for squirrelmail.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: thats fine i didnt mean for you personally to look at it ;)
<ScottK> gnomefreak: No problem.  I was mostly trying to be clear I wasn't in case someone else could do it.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: :)
<joejaxx> anyone here use a amd64 to build i386 and x64?
<ScottK> joejaxx: I think nixternal does something like that sometime.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<geser> joejaxx: you are running the stats about uploads, aren't you?
<joejaxx> geser: sort of i broke the cron that was running for it
<joejaxx> i need to fix that
<joejaxx> hold on 
<geser> could you add a number how many distinct people did uploading?
<joejaxx> sure
<geser> thanks
<joejaxx> you are most welcome
<joejaxx> i will have to do that in 1.5 hours though i have to drive home
<Kmos> where are these stats?
<joejaxx> Kmos: ubuntu.joejaxx.org
<joejaxx> bbl
<Kmos> geser: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcoRodrigues
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Kmos] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | [20:50]  <joejaxx> i need to fix that
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Kmos] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
<RickH> Hello... anyone interested in helping me beginning GTK+ development?
<RickH> I have questions moving to GTK+ from a Windows developer background.
<geser> doesn't have gtk+ own channels?
<geser> RickH: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeIrcChannels
<Flannel> On irc.gnome.org
<RickH> GTK+ is GNome?
<geser> for gtk+ that would be #gtk+ on irc.gnome.org
<RickH> Okay, thanks.
<leonel> ScottK: Done  squirrelmail 1.4.10a   builded and tested  in feisty 
<ScottK> OK.  THanks.
<leonel> no, thank you 
<ScottK> leonel: Please add the debian/changelog entries since dapper to the squirrelmail bug.
<ScottK> leonel: In the bug description.  Also which versions are current in Dapper, Edgy, and Feisty and the version # to be backported from Gutsy.
<leonel> Ok   I'm  going  out right now   is it urgent ?
<leonel> ScottK: I'll do  as soon I come back 
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Do it when you get back.
<leonel> ok thanks
<Megaqwerty> Is there an easy way to get dependencies of source packages? I've tried using the script from debian's website, bit it misses a few that dpkg-depcheck finds. However, dpkg-depcheck doesn't print required version numbers...
<Flannel> Megaqwerty: apt-get build-dep
<Megaqwerty> Flannel: sorry, I meant .tar.gz files that don't have .debs yet
<Megaqwerty> or .bz2, you get the idea.
<man-di> Megaqwerty: build with pbuilder and look what fails
<man-di> Megaqwerty: thats the only thing that is reliable
<Megaqwerty> man-di: Alright, thanks.
<man-di> Megaqwerty: note that sometimes stuff is optional, you need to read the build log to get aware of missing optional stuff
#ubuntu-motu 2007-07-15
<Megaqwerty> Okay, when trying to build a package with dpkg-buildpackage -S -rfakeroot , I get "gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: secret key not available" I do have a secret key, and I have already exported GPGKEY=39A34D3B (which is my key id)
<Megaqwerty> any idea as to what I need to do to resolve this?
<persia> I'm slow, but it's one of 1) GPG-agent not working due to missing variables, 2) incorrect email in key, 3) incorrect email in changelog, 4) incorrect email in DEBEMAIL, or 5) incorrect GPG configuration.  Perhaps the IRC log will be helpful to someone.
<Megaqwerty> anyone?
<persia> Megaqwerty: Sorry: I answered whist you were away.
<Megaqwerty> ah, what was the answer?
<persia> Megaqwerty: First, are you building source in feisty or gutsy?  If feisty, you may need to set some variables to get your gpg-agent to work.
<Megaqwerty> feisty
<crimsun> 18:40 < persia> I'm slow, but it's one of 1) GPG-agent not working due to missing variables, 2) incorrect email in key, 3) incorrect email in changelog, 4) incorrect email in DEBEMAIL, or 5) incorrect GPG configuration.  Perhaps the IRC log will be helpful to someone.
<persia> Megaqwerty: OK.  That's probably it then.  Are you using seahorse, or gpg-agent as a GPG Agent?
<gnomefreak> i dont think its gpg-agent
<gnomefreak> nor seahorse
<Megaqwerty> indeed
<Megaqwerty> gnomefreak: is correct, I know not of either
<gnomefreak> i have both both work fine feisty and gutsy
<persia> gnomefreak: Really?  Do you have anything special in ~/.devscripts in feisty?
<gnomefreak> i would make sure changelog is correct as set in your DEBEMAIL in ~/.bashrc
<gnomefreak> persia: no nothing i changed
<persia> Megaqwerty: OK.  Next, make sure that you have DEBEMAIL set, that it matches the last changelog entry, and that it matches one of the emails on your key.
<gnomefreak> didnt even know that was created
<Megaqwerty> sorry about that
<persia> Megaqwerty: OK.  Next, make sure that you have DEBEMAIL set, that it matches the last changelog entry, and that it matches one of the emails on your key.
<Megaqwerty> so... export DEBEMAIL=myemail in the end of .bashrc?
<persia> Megaqwerty: That could work, but for troubleshooting, try just running export DEBEMAIL=<your email> in the terminal first.  If it works, adding it to .bashrc makes sense.
<gnomefreak> assuming your not using bzr bd
<gnomefreak> export GPGKEY=keyid would be helpful as well if its not already there
<persia> gnomefreak: Already done :)
<gnomefreak> i have 6 exports in ~/.bashrc and just going through them to make sure you have them :)
* persia has 0 exports in .bashrc, and everything works
<gnomefreak> 1 is ther eby default
<gnomefreak> you better have 1;)
<gnomefreak> export HISTCONTROL=ignoredups
<Megaqwerty> I have exported the correct key
<persia> gnomefreak: mine's commented out :)
* gnomefreak wonders if DEBEMAIL takes full name as well as email
<gnomefreak> persia: ah
<gnomefreak> im gonna assume no since i have 2 lines
<Megaqwerty> well...that didn't work
<Megaqwerty> (DEBEMAIL)
<Megaqwerty> it is the same email in the changelog, and my gpg key
<gnomefreak> persia: maybe you had added an email to your key?
<crimsun> pastebin the uids from your key and the complete top changelog entry.
<persia> Megaqwerty: Hmmm..  Could you try setting DEBEMAIL to be "Name in changelog <email>"?
* gnomefreak thinks that would have been to easy to ask :(
<gnomefreak> hint dont put anything in that setting but email
<Megaqwerty> Ah, man I hate to go when I'm getting so much support, but I have to...I'll be back later, hopefully I'll get as much help as I am having now then.
<Megaqwerty> bye.
<persia> Megaqwerty: Good luck.
<gnomefreak> i thought persia was having issues
<persia> gnomefreak: Nope - things work great for me: I blame Mr. Kowalik :)
<Megaqwerty> okay, so I forgot I have another hour :-\
<Megaqwerty> So, I had just tried exporting DEBEMAIL and GPGKEY variables to no avail.
<Megaqwerty> persia, gnomefreak, you guys still here?
<crimsun> 19:04 < crimsun> pastebin the uids from your key and the complete top changelog entry.
<persia> Megaqwerty: Great.  Does it work with the expanded DEBEMAIL setting?  If not, could you please put the last changelog entry and the uuids from your key in a changelog entry for examination?
<Megaqwerty> persia: expanded? Oh, add my full name and <email> to the variable?
<persia> Megaqwerty: Right.
<minghua> Probably a DEBFULLNAME thing.
<minghua> (and comments in GPG key id)
<Megaqwerty> minghua: oh, I should declare DEBFULLNAME? 
<persia> minghua: likely.  I always force that in DEBEMAIL, but that's just me.
<minghua> Hello crimsun and persia BTW. :-)
<Megaqwerty> nope, I'll just pastebin the requested info.
<minghua> Megaqwerty: as crimsun said, paste your changelog entry and key uid in pastebin so that people can look.
<crimsun> hello minghua 
<persia> minghua: Good evening
<EliasAmaral> In my computer /etc/init.d/rcS do not seem to be executed in initialization (it isn't in /etc/rc*.d), does anyone know why?
<minghua> Megaqwerty: The point is to make the changelog entry and your gpg key id match, there are multiple ways to achieve it, DEBFULLNAME is one of them.
<EliasAmaral> I executed stat /etc/rc*.d/*|grep init.d/rcS , it returns nothing
<minghua> persia: Yeah, it always bother me that dpatch doesn't want to read DEBFULLNAME, maybe I should force it in DEBEMAIL, too.
<EliasAmaral> (In contrast, stat /etc/rc*.d/*|grep init.d/urandom returns the correct links for urandom)
<persia> EliasAmaral: You likely want a support channel.  I'd suggest checking in #ubuntu or #ubuntu+1 (depending on which release you use)
<Megaqwerty> http://megaqwerty.pastebin.ca/619703
<persia> minghua: Yep.  That was one of my motivations.
<EliasAmaral> persia, you are right, sorry. i am asking here because apparently #ubuntu is so hight-traffic that nobody could see my question
<persia> Megaqwerty: "(Repository Key" is missing in your changelog, or spuriously added to your key.
<Megaqwerty> persia: what is the syntax for such?
<persia> Umm...  " (Repository Key) "
<Megaqwerty> Well...I mean, could you give me an example entry
<minghua> Megaqwerty: As persia said.  Add "(Repository Key)" after your name in changelog can work around it.
<Megaqwerty> okay
<persia> Megaqwerty: You just need to make sure the name in the changelog (from DEBEMAIL when using dch) exactly matches the entire name in the gpg key.
<Megaqwerty> I didn't realize you meant the comment
<minghua> Megaqwerty: if you want dch/debchange to automatically generate a correct changelog entry for you, you need to adjust some other things.
<EliasAmaral> There are a documentation about the inicialization of Ubuntu? I am reading http://qref.sourceforge.net/Debian/reference/ch-system.en.html and it says /etc/init.d/rcS must be executed
<Megaqwerty> that did it, thanks
<persia> Megaqwerty: Great.
<Megaqwerty> minghua: how would I get dh_make to automatically do that for me?
<Megaqwerty> minghua: or is that something I'll just have to change myself every time?
<minghua> Megaqwerty: Not sure.  I personally object using dh_make, and don't know much about it.
<Megaqwerty> minghua: haha okay.
<minghua> Megaqwerty: for generate changelog entries after you've already done the initial packaging, you should use dch command.
<minghua> Megaqwerty: dh_make doesn't help you after the initial packaging anyway (AFAIK).
<Megaqwerty> minghua: no, I don't believe it does.
* persia suggests that the contents of usr/share/debhelper/dh_make/debian/ can be useful reference even when not using dh_make to create a package, and that the result is sometimes easier to get clean than actually executing dh_make
<crimsun> EliasAmaral: lsb_release -r
<EliasAmaral> crimsun, Release:        7.04
<crimsun> EliasAmaral: ok, so $EDITOR /etc/event.d/rcS
<EliasAmaral> ok
<crimsun> Hint: read the upstart documentation.
<EliasAmaral> ah. /etc/event.d is the config directory of upstart?
<minghua> Yeah, and stop following everything on Debian Reference if you are using Ubuntu.
* persia thinks that the Debian Reference contains much useful information, even if not all is applicable to Ubuntu
<crimsun> it's absolutely useful if not absolutely relevant ;)
<EliasAmaral> minghua, yeah, but.. i always installed / removed things in ubuntu initialization using the old initialization system. i don't know how to operate upstart (and never needed before today)
<minghua> Hmm, I didn't know upstart has such compatibility with the init system on Debian.
<EliasAmaral> update-rc.d and invoke-rc.d still works (ok, now you said that i am not sure..)
<minghua> Which release did upstart become default?  Feisty?
<Nafallo> edgy
<crimsun> EliasAmaral: update-rc.d has nothing to do with it.  They manage sysvinit-style scripts.  Currently upstart provides sysvinit compatibility.
<EliasAmaral> But sysvinit-style scripts doesn't form the init system on Debian?
<crimsun> AFAIK they still do, but I don't pretend to follow current *init* dev in Debian.
<minghua> I think sysvinit is still the default in unstable right now, but there are talks to change the init system.
<minghua> Debian is usually slow on such kind of changes.
<crimsun> right, I see http://wiki.debian.org/MetaInit, etc., from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2007-June/023910.html
<Jazzva> Hello... Do I need to provide the whole license (if it differs from GPL) in the debian/copyright, or just some part? This license in particular: http://www.statistica.unimib.it/utenti/dellavedova/software/artistic2.html
<Jazzva> I see there is Artistic License in /usr/share/common-licenses, but this one is Clarified Artistic License :unsure:...
<geser> Jazzva: the complete license text should be included in debian/copyright
<persia> Jazzva: The easiest way to check is to run diff between the license included in the source and the license included in /usr/share/common-licenses.  If there are any differences, you need to put it all in debian/copyright.
* vorlon proposes the Clarified Butter License
<Jazzva> geser, persia: Ok, thanks :).
<Nafallo> CBL :-)
* persia thinks the CBL would be extra free, mandating the removal of various otherwise interesting things
* persia grumbles about native packages that are also distributed in fedora
* jdong grumbles about squid taking 30s to stop....
* jdong adds a quick kill on squid when nobody's looking :D
<Fujitsu> Hi jdong.
<jdong> hi Fujitsu 
<jdong> long time no talk :)
<jdong> how's life been around here?
<Fujitsu> I've been rather busy with year 12 and work and various other things, so not as much Ubuntu time lately :(
<jdong> ah
<jdong> likewise; I've been pretty occupied with other stuff recently too
<jdong> though my schedule is starting to return to normal again
<jdong> not to mention I've started to Use The Dark Side (tm) more as I've been on the road...
<Fujitsu> Noooooo.
<jdong> lol
<jdong> it's still *nix though ;-)
<Fujitsu> OS X?
<jdong> I will attempt a dual boot setup tomorrow for curiousity's sake, but initial research appears pretty iffy.
<jdong> yeah, black macbook
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<jdong> it's an alright operating system
<Fujitsu> So I've heard.
<jdong> the one thing I really appreciate is how well suspend/resume works
<jdong> quite literally it's done resuming before I can get the lid back up.
<Fujitsu> They can manage that fairly well with their incredibly restricted hardware.
<Fujitsu> Wow.
<jdong> yeah, and I have resumed/suspended in excess of 50 times once, before rebooting for an update
<jdong> sadly Ubuntu can't do that yet on any of my systems :(
<jdong> but yeah, their full control over their hardware platform definitely makes this easy for them 
<jdong> but on a trip when my main usecase is mapping software, the macbook is a clear winner...
<Fujitsu> On the latest kernel my laptop has no problems, but it still takes a few seconds. On older kernels there would occasionally be issues like the LCD not turning on, PS/2 stuff being missing, etc.
<jdong> i.e. open up every 30 minutes to look at map for 5 minutes
<jdong> ah, that's very cool
<jdong> my Ubuntu lappie has an ATI GPU, which is a major PITA for suspend
<Fujitsu> Ah, I'm all Intel.
<jdong> it has like a 90% success rate, but when it fails it hardlocks on resume :(
<jdong> which tends to make me not trust suspend at all
<jdong> I really want to give Ubuntu a shot on this macbook
<jdong> just haven't found the time yet to deal with the install procedure
<jdong> and also, OS X on this thing is Just Work (tm)ing , so I don't have terribly great motivation to change things radically
<jdong> I want to get MOTU-ship before summer ends though
<jdong> if that's the only thing I accomplish this summer...
<TheMuso> StevenK: lol
<TheMuso> Oh man. Managed to get myself shaped.
<Hobbsee> oh dear
<TheMuso> Well at least Ubuntu mirrors from my ISP are quota free, and hense at full speed.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: how big an allowance do you have?
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: 20GB
<TheMuso> Dropping to 10GB next month.
<Hobbsee> sheesh
<Hobbsee> and you managed to run thru that...
<TheMuso> Unfortunately its not me who pays the biggest slice of the bill atm.
<TheMuso> Twas CD images mostly. Gobuntu, and updating all other CD iages.
<TheMuso> images even
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> using rsync?
<TheMuso> Yes.
<Hobbsee> wow
<TheMuso> But rsync doesn't magically make grabbing extra cds like the gobuntu cd, or the serveraddon cd for edubuntu smaller in download.
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: Wouldn't most of gobuntu be the same as ubuntu?
<TheMuso> Not to mention getting those cds for both i386 and powerpc.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah probably, I didn't think of that at the time however.
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: oh, true
<Hobbsee> also, my ISP will tend to mirror the released cds, i fasked
<TheMuso> Well thats alright for release CDs...
<TheMuso> but dailies are another story.
<Hobbsee> (and tribes)
* TheMuso requested that internode host tribes.
<Hobbsee> true
<TheMuso> DOn't know if they will yet.
<Hobbsee> no point in trying teh dailies yet anyway
<TheMuso> I also requested they host the ports releases.
<TheMuso> But its good to keep up.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Who are you with?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: hellstra
<TheMuso> At least the alternate CDs are usable.
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: not if they're not acutally building properly
* Hobbsee --> lunch
<TheMuso> true.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Haha.
* Fujitsu generally only uses alternates, and has a local mirror, so ISOs don't require much bandwidth.
<TheMuso> It would be nice to have a system to construct live CDs, like what jigdo does for alternates.
<Fujitsu> You'd have to rebuild the squashfs locally.
<xchat> Any MOTUs here willing to give some advice on modifications to a package on REVU?
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yeah I know
<TheMuso> Heya RAOF.
<RAOF> Heya TheMuso 
<StevenK> TheMuso: Whyfor laughing at me?
<TheMuso> StevenK: Re-uploading those packages for the transition.
<StevenK> Yeah, well.
<Hobbsee> it's for the karma boost
* Fujitsu wonders if he can find a new libgeda ABI to upload to irritate StevenK.
<StevenK> Uploads are still karma-less, aren't they?
<StevenK> Fujitsu: Keep talking, I'm reloading.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Correct.
* Fujitsu chats.
* StevenK kicks Launchpad.
<Fujitsu> Why?
<Fujitsu> What has it done now,?
<StevenK> Surely stuff that I uploaded at 12:10 should have published by now
<Fujitsu> No...
<Fujitsu> It'll be published in about 3 minutes, and head the mirrors by about 20 to.
<Fujitsu> *head to
<StevenK> But it should have hit the 1:05 publisher run?
<Hobbsee> StevenK: i believe there's a spec on more karma for uploads :P
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Sssh, quiet you.
<StevenK> Hobbsee: And there has been for quite some time.
<Hobbsee> needs shoving
<Fujitsu> It's high priority, I think, but...
<Fujitsu> Last action on it was "cprov 2006/06/22: issues clarified, back to 'review'"
<Fujitsu> Isn't the encouraging?
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> probably with the karma review?
<Hobbsee> then again, i'd prefer him doing the ppa stuff than karma
<Fujitsu> StevenK: It was published about a minute ago now.
<Fujitsu> It seems the 0303Z publisher didn't do much.
<StevenK> I was hoping they'd publish and build while I was lunching. That didn't happen.
<Fujitsu> Soyuz is very reliable.
<Fujitsu> I wonder if you'll have the luxury of having the buildmaster queue some builds for you this round?
<StevenK> Hopefully.
<Fujitsu> If cron.daily stuffs up the buildmaster often seems to sit around doing nothing for a while.
<StevenK> That could be IPC screwing up.
<Fujitsu> Possibly.
<StevenK> (I'm guessing)
<Fujitsu> I don't recall how they interact.
* Fujitsu loosk.
<Fujitsu> Hah, bug #54946
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 54946 in soyuz "buildd handling lives in ivory tower of perfect networks" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/54946
<StevenK> Muahaha
<Hobbsee> hahahahaha nice
<ScottK> Good $TIME_OF_DAY all.
<Fujitsu> Hi ScottK.
* ScottK is back from an unexpected run to Hospital.
* StevenK waves to ScottK
* Hobbsee --> work
<ScottK> 13 year old fell down the stairs and sprained her foot.
<ScottK> Crutches for her now.
<Fujitsu> Fun fun.
<StevenK> Neat.
<TheMuso> heh
<StevenK> ScottK: How many stairs?
<ScottK> She leaves for a two week camp tomorrow, so I wanted to be sure we knew what it was before she left.
<TheMuso> ouch
<StevenK> Last time I fell down the stairs, I put my foot through a window.
<StevenK> (I was about eight)
<TheMuso> ouch
<ScottK> StevenK: Not sure.  It's a full flight.  Dunno where she was when she lost it.
<StevenK> ScottK: She's okay aside from the sprain?
<ScottK> Yeah.
<StevenK> Sprained, and shaken, not stirred?
<ScottK> She handled it remarkable well.  Very mature and controlled.  Didn't freak out at all.
<ScottK> Yeah.
<StevenK> Camp, with crutches. Fun.
<ScottK> Yep.  Maybe she'll learn something about running on the stairs....
<TheMuso> haha
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<StevenK> Heh, maybe.
<ScottK> Also, it's math/science camp.  It's more like going to University than camp.
<StevenK> I'm bad when it comes to stairs. I will usually go up and down taking two at a time.
<ScottK> You're legally an adult and responsible for your own actions, so whatever works for you.
<ScottK> She's not, so ....
* Fujitsu wonders if the Soyuz guys have heard of AS in FROM clauses... the query in bug #62428 is rather unreadable.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 62428 in soyuz "can't remove packages any more" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/62428
* Fujitsu does 2 or 3 most of the time, but is yet to do worse than hitting his head on the start of the ceiling and lieing down for a number of minutes.
<StevenK> ScottK: You say that like you're sure. :-P
* ScottK is reasonably sure.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: When I was in the Navy, I knew a guy that had done the same (hit is head) on a ship where the thing you hit is steel and been knocked unconcious with a concussion.
<Fujitsu> Ow. This was just wood.
<StevenK> Ouch. Bulkhead's *hurt*
<Fujitsu> s/'//
<StevenK> Hmph
<ScottK> Yes.  I have hit my head on them, but not that hard.
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I don't see how AS helps that mess. Also, yay for the magic numbers...
<minghua> I think I fell down from stairs and was knocked unconscious once when I was very young, but I'm not so sure.
<Fujitsu> StevenK: it means you don't have a million and one BinaryPackagePublishings.
* StevenK tries to get his fuzzy brain to co-operate.
<joejaxx> geser: i added the total number of uploaders
<joejaxx> currently there have been 206 people
<joejaxx> who have uploaded to Gutsy
<Fujitsu> That will be somewhat off due to multiple email addresses :(
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: yeah i will have to fix that
<joejaxx> hold on
<Fujitsu> I know, you can use LP's excellent machine-parseable interface.
<joejaxx> let me try something
<Fujitsu> To work out which email address is owned by who.
<joejaxx> Fujitsu: it is ok
<joejaxx> i have a way :)
<jdong> Fujitsu: there's a machine parseable interface?
<Fujitsu> jdong: No, that would be too easy.
<jdong> Fujitsu: don't excite me like that!
<jdong> :P
<StevenK> joejaxx: What about a top ten of who's uploaded?
<minghua> It's probably a bit hard, if you count Changed-By, you count multiple addresses of the same person; if you count GPG keys, you miss sponsored uploads.
<joejaxx> alright
<joejaxx> the REAL number is 162
<joejaxx> StevenK: that is already on there :P
<Fujitsu> StevenK: That's already there..
<StevenK> What's the URL?
<StevenK> I forgot.
<Fujitsu> ubuntu.joejaxx.org
* ScottK test builds qt4-qtruby (aka libqt4-ruby) AGAIN.
<joejaxx> let me run it again with the updated code
<ScottK> Heya jdong.
<StevenK> Hah! Number #4!
<jdong> howdy ScottK 
* ScottK has been busy on backports.
* Fujitsu has only uploaded 34, but that doesn't count syncs.
<ScottK> Archive admins haven't groaned yet.
<jdong> thanks ScottK for your help with backports :)
<joejaxx> ok updating
<jdong> lol
<jdong> just sit in -devel... you'll hear them groan on next archive day :D
<jdong> I think my record is I pushed through like 30 in a week
<ScottK> Funny thing I suddenly don't have any more backport requests pending.
<jdong> and I got a good groan :D
<joejaxx> jdong: :P
<jdong> but ScottK 's probably beaten that record already
* StevenK slammed the buildds with 70 uploads over a 24 hour period.
<ScottK> No.
<joejaxx> too bad i will never be on that list :\
<jdong> good news is that my ruby-on-rails auto-triager is closer than ever to working
<joejaxx> jdong: lol auto-triager?
<ScottK> I may have done that many "Invalid - Backports is for feature requests.  Use the SRU process for bug fixing".
* Fujitsu has only uploaded/synced 59 packages this cycle :(
<joejaxx> jdong: you are wrecking lp with that?
<jdong> joejaxx: yeah, you fill out a simple form and the server attempts a build for you
<jdong> joejaxx: and if it succeeds, spits out an APT repo with binaries
<joejaxx> oh
<StevenK> jdong: *Ouch* That's cool!
<joejaxx> i thought you meant bug triager
<jdong> it should filter out FTBFS and otherwise invalid backports
<jdong> not to mention cut down on the whining of "when are packages gonna arrive?"
* StevenK moves onto doing some *spit* Debian sponsoring work.
<vorlon> in Singapore, I understand that's a caning offense
<jdong> lol
<ScottK> Careful, he might like that.
<joejaxx> nixternal: when you get back ping me :)
<StevenK> Singapore is a *fine* city.
<joejaxx> caning?
<ScottK> They do do that there.
<StevenK> joejaxx: Thin rod they beat you with.
<joejaxx> someone should come out with a book of rules for ever country
<joejaxx> or that contains rules from every country rather
<joejaxx> StevenK: oho k
<joejaxx> oh ok*
<StevenK> Actually, I have a shirt from Singapore that shows some of the offenses and punishments.
<StevenK> Like, no dancing in public.
* jdong quibbles at ktorrent maintainer's response
<Fujitsu> jdong: What was it?
<jdong> Me: "What SVN revision did you fix the bug in?"
<jdong> Him: "err.... idn too lazy to check :D"
<Fujitsu> Lovely.
<jdong> upstream, rather.
<jdong> :D
<jdong> yay, now I get the excitement of reading svn changelogs from ktorrent
<joejaxx> ok
<joejaxx> the stats now correctly display the right number
<joejaxx> 162
<joejaxx> :)
<joejaxx> so we have 162 people who have uploaded to gutsy up until this point
<joejaxx> cool
<jdong> cool
* jdong built a gutsy-changes parser for the backports webui
<jdong> though I am pretty sure I won't include it in the public version
<jdong> it won't be long before people just click every single upload for backports triage :D
<joejaxx> backports webui?
<jdong> a little thing in development :)
<joejaxx> oh ok
<jdong> one step closer to one-click backports
<ScottK> jdong: We don't need MORE requests.  We need BETTER requests.
<jdong> ScottK: I understand; but at least this way we don't have to spend 15 minutes on a request only to find out they don't build
* Fujitsu writes a procmail rule to automatically create a backport bug for each gutsy-changes email :P
<jdong> Fujitsu: LOL
<jdong> haha we could just have the buildd's do that :D
<ScottK> My favorite so far was the GCC 4.2 backport request.  No risk there.
<jdong> :)
<minghua> Why?  Doesn't gcc-4.2 backport overwrites libgcc1 and libstdc++6?
<jdong> if it didn't generate replacement library packages that weren't named -4.2, it would've worked :D
<jdong> minghua: that's exactly what they do...
* ScottK just read the backports rules where compilers are listed as a strict no no and marked invalid.
<minghua> Good rule.
<jdong> it is a good general rule :0
<jdong> :)
<StevenK> ScottK: But why won't you backport libc!?
<ScottK> Because Mithrandir would book a flight, come to my house and eat me.
<StevenK> Heh, yeah well.
<ScottK> self preservation is a good motivator.
<RAOF> Aww, crap.  Xgl FTBFS
<ScottK> jdong: Got a minute to discuss backports triage policy?
<jdong> ScottK: sure, go ahead
<ScottK> I was thinking with the new bug status in LP...
<ScottK> We could make Confirmed mean that the bug has the required information and meets the basic policy requirements - Is ready for testing.
<ScottK> Then make Triaged mean that the bug has been tested and is thought to be ready to be ack'ed to the archive.
<ScottK> Does that make sense?
<jdong> yeah, that makes sense
<StevenK> Maybe the other way around?
<jdong> hmm...
<jdong> actually...
<jdong> the other way is probably better
<StevenK> Triaged is "I've looked at it, and it has my rubber stamp" ; Confirmed is "Boot it into the archive"
<jdong> because people understand already "Confirmed" to mean a successful build attempt
<ScottK> Well in the heirarchy of LP, Triaged comes after Confirmed.  So that would be backwards of the progression Ubuntu uses.
<ScottK> I agree it makes sense though if you think of the semantics of the actual words.
<RAOF> What do people think about a new Xgl git snapshot to fix the stuff the new mesa has broken?
<jdong> RAOF: aww that happened again? :(
<ScottK> RAOF: What's it going to break?
<jdong> ScottK: nothing
<jdong> ScottK: Xgl git snaps don't affect anything outside of them
* ScottK has heard that before.
<jdong> ScottK: I was pushing that the last release cycle
<RAOF> jdong: Xgl doesn't build, due to mesa changes
<jdong> when Xorg 7.1 broke Xgl into freeze
<ScottK> Then I'd say go for it.
<jdong> RAOF: I'd fully support that
<jdong> RAOF: and I don't think anyone else would object
<RAOF> So, git head, or cherry pick the minimal fix?
<jdong> git head
<jdong> there's usually enough merit in bugfixes to do that anyway
<ScottK> lionel: Got time to do a test for backports?
<ScottK> lionel: If you do, Bug #116458
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 116458 in feisty-backports "Please backport gramps (2.2.8-1ubuntu1) from Gutsy to Feisty" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116458
<Fujitsu> Isn't Gutsy gramps broken at the moment?
<RAOF> jdong: Can you remember offhand the git command to get _just_ Xgl from git?
<jdong> RAOF: IIRC you needed to git clone git-clone git://anongit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver, then git checkout xgl-0-0-1
<jdong> RAOF: let me check on that...
<RAOF> Aaah, git checkout.  Of course
<jdong> yeah, confirmed, clone all of xserver, then checkout xgl-0-0-1
<ScottK> Fujitsu: That would be why I want someone to test it.
<StevenK> Hrm. Aren't we due a new release of Launchpad in a few days?
<Fujitsu> 17th or 18th, IIRC
<Fujitsu> 18th it is.
<Fujitsu> I see LP is getting mailing list support soon.
<StevenK> Hrrm?
<ScottK> Any idea awaits us with a new release of the management system the day before a Tribe release?
<Fujitsu> There's a whole lot of mailing list specs targetted for 1.1.[78] 
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Probably a lot of bug breakage.
<ScottK> Handy having the bug system broken at release time.  Cuts down on the bugs we have to worry about.
<Fujitsu> Yep.
<RAOF> Why must git be impenetrable!
<ScottK> Because Linus wrote it over a weekend when he was upset.
<jdong> LOL
<jdong> git and I didn't get off to a good start either
<RAOF> Gah!  How am I supposed to check out xgl-0-0-1?  "git checkout xgl-0-0-1" in the xserver directory isnt the correct answer, apparently
<ScottK> By doing it correctly comes to mind as an option ;-)
<ScottK> Sorry.  Couldn't help it.
<jdong> RAOF: checkout -f?
<RAOF> jdong: "Did you intend to checkout 'xgl-0-0-1' which can not be resolved as commit?"
<jdong> RAOF: try typing "GET LINUS" :D
<jdong> RAOF: maybe try runnign checkout from ../
<RAOF> "Not a git repository"
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: arg, you got emerald removed
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: I didn't remove emerald.
<Amaranth> it went away
<Fujitsu> That was before me.
<Fujitsu> I don't recall who did it, though.
<Amaranth> now i'll have to get it through NEW again
* Fujitsu points at StevenK.
<Fujitsu> Bug #124385
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124385 in emerald "Packages to remove from Gutsy" [Wishlist,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124385
<Fujitsu> Why do we want emerald, though?
<RAOF> Because people can't be bothered trying to get engine support into metacity? :P
<StevenK> Amaranth: Why do we need emerald?
<RAOF> It's shinier than g-w-d
<StevenK> Surely the CompComm people renamed it? :-)
<Amaranth> StevenK: nope :P
<Amaranth> and afaik we're going to be using it by default
<RAOF> ??
<StevenK> I was just cleaning up NBS
<Amaranth> so we can get more 'tasteful' transparency on inactive window borders
<RAOF> Won't that break Gnome themes?
<Amaranth> actually 'readable' is the word i'm looking for
<Amaranth> RAOF: apparently not important
<Amaranth> i dunno, i have to talk to seb about it
<jdong> what a surprise, sparc build of tomboy failed in backports
<StevenK> Error reading from server. Remote end closed connection [IP: 91.189.89.6 80] 
<StevenK> Hmph.
<Amaranth> jdong: please backport compiz :)
<jdong> sounds like fun
<Amaranth> i'll help get it backportable if it's not now
<Amaranth> i need to get people to stop using Trevinho's repos, they're crack
<jdong> hmm what source packages are involved?
<RAOF> Ah, thank god.  "git checkout origin/xgl-0-0-1" is the magical incantaition.  Now, off to make dinner for a dinner party!
<jdong> lol
<Amaranth> jdong: let me see
<Amaranth> jdong: compiz, libcompizconfig, libcompizconfig-backend-gconf, compiz-fusion-plugins-main, compiz-fusion-plugins-extra, compizconfig-settings-manager
<Amaranth> jdong: oh, and bcop
<Fujitsu> I've seen quite a few bugs from Treviolately :(
<jdong> Amaranth: bleh, those are all source packages? :(
<Amaranth> jdong: yeah
* Fujitsu prefers the beryl-settings* trinity.
<Amaranth> the compiz-fusion guys push the modular thing to an extreme
<ScottK> jdong: I'll let you do that one.
<jdong> Amaranth: mmmkie
<Amaranth> jdong: oh, and compizconfig-python
<Amaranth> all the compizconfig stuff is split up into different tarballs to make the build system easier to work with
<Amaranth> so they can use GNOME and KDE specific build stuff with the different backends
<Amaranth> Fujitsu: ?
<minghua> Fujitsu: Who is Trevio?
<RAOF> But that's only at autogen time, right?
<Amaranth> RAOF: no, libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig uses a full KDE build system
<RAOF> Oh, right.
* jdong should change his prevu builders to gdebi
<TheMuso> jdong: What about sbuild/LVM snapshots?
<jdong> pbuilder-satisfydeps gets slower every release
* RAOF wonders vaguely what a KDE build system is.
<jdong> TheMuso: that works too
<Amaranth> RAOF: it does lots of magic to find Qt and KDE stuff
<Amaranth> because they don't use pkg-config and every distro puts it in a different place
<RAOF> jdong: Does gdebi parse the versions on the build deps now?
<minghua> Does KDE3 use cmake?
<jdong> RAOF: I'd expect not, but the subsequent debuild invocation by pbuilder to bomb out
<RAOF> Amaranth: Ah, of course.  Why use standard dev tools?
<jdong> which serves the same purpose
<jdong> which would mean it's not necessarily all that faster
<Amaranth> RAOF: well, pkg-config didn't exist at the time
<jdong> if it coudl potentially go unpack 300MB of packages then figure out one is not the right version!
<Amaranth> RAOF: and only like 3 guys know how the whole damn KDE3 setup works
<Amaranth> minghua: no, only KDE4
<RAOF> Heh
<minghua> Amaranth: Thanks.
<jdong> wheee
<jdong> http://18.96.7.12:3000/inventory/view_log/37#end
<jdong> it seems to be building okay
<Amaranth> yay the libwnck dependency was relaxed
* jdong wonders why kicker is needed to build this modular compiz :D
<Amaranth> jdong: compiz builds compiz, compiz-core, compiz-gnome, compiz-kde, and compiz-plugins
<jdong> ah, ok, that make sense
<Amaranth> so it needs gconf and all it's deps and kdebase-dev
<jdong> alright ,all you debian architects out there
<Amaranth> which basically pulls in KDE
<jdong> the enxt thing we need are metasource packages :D
<jdong> that pull in a bunch of source packages for build :D
<Fujitsu> Amaranth: There is (well, was) beryl-settings, beryl-settings-simple, beryl-settings-bindings... I've got no idea why they were split.
<Fujitsu> minghua: The creator of a legendary sources.list involved dozens of unofficial breakage-prone repositories.
<jdong> Fujitsu: doesn't he also maintain the automatic svnbuild repos of all the eyecandy?
<minghua> Fujitsu: I see.  I still have that skull wallpaper. :-)
<Amaranth> The one that got lots of people mad when someone noticed their repo in there and locked you to a skull and crossbones wallpaper.
<Amaranth> heh
<Fujitsu> minghua: That's the one.
<Amaranth> jdong: yeah
<jdong> that was even incompatible with the other 3rd party eyecandy repos?
<jdong> ah, that one :)
* Fujitsu remembers the discussion that led to that wallpaper.
<jdong> I think he's in one of my sources.lists
<Amaranth> His compiz packages include wacky junk like making dropdowns translucent (which breaks java apps) and copy-mode rendering (which breaks ABI from upstream)
<Fujitsu> And then everybody said we should banish [owner of the skull wallpaper repo]  from the community for being evil.
* ScottK is probably going to get banished for being evil eventually.
* Fujitsu banishes ScottK for good measure.
* ScottK will get you for that.
<Fujitsu> Darn.
<jdong> Amaranth: bad news on wnck :(
<jdong> http://18.96.7.12:3000/inventory/view_log/37#end
<jdong> FTBFS
<Amaranth> jdong: yeah, already saw
<Amaranth> i wonder what trevinho does
<jdong> Amaranth: err, IIRC he ships wnck
<Amaranth> uh
<Amaranth> the wnck you'd need has a different ABI
<jdong> Amaranth: has anyone told him that? :D
<Amaranth> ah, our old patch
<Amaranth> #define wnck_window_get_geometry wnck_window_get_client_window_geometry
<jdong> mmm.
<Amaranth> i guess i'll have to get mvo to stick that back into our package
<Amaranth> unless i can find another core-dev to do it for me :)
<Amaranth> wait, that's the wrong way around :P
<Amaranth> how the hell...
<Amaranth> ((type=Menu | PopupMenu | DropdownMenu | Tooltip | Notification | Combo | Dnd | name=sun-awt-X11-XWindowPeer) | (type=Normal &amp; override_redirect=1)) &amp; !(name=sun-awt-X11-XFramePeer | name=sun-awt-X11-XDialogPeer)
<Amaranth> *stab*
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Have you got a moment to look at a conflicting packages bug that has me stumped.
<ScottK> Nevermind.  I think I figured it out.
<ScottK> jdong: You still around?
<StevenK> Hmph.
<StevenK> Please don't suck up 1.3Gb of RAM, g++
<ScottK> Well, clamav 0.91 is uploaded.  Let's hope the didn't mess up the new release too badly...
<ScottK> StevenK: Would you by chance be able to have a look at Bug #125865?  I thought I understood what was wrong, but I'm now totally confused and fried (it's gone 3AM here already).
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125865 in qt4-qtruby "error when installing libqt0-ruby1.8-qt4 and libqt4-ruby at the same time" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125865
<ScottK> OK.  Well I guess not.
<ScottK> Good night everyone (anyone).
* Fujitsu decides a robots.txt to tell Google to keep away from debcheck might be a good idea, as it's making quite a lot of requests.
<minghua> Good for bandwidth bill. :-)
<Fujitsu> Upstream isn't counted, fortunately.
<persia> Fujitsu: As a side thought, perhaps having only the main page be acceptable to index might be good: it would allow "Ubuntu QA Report" to likely show up well, without churning through all the links to the generated data.
<Fujitsu> persia: Right, I didn't exclude the root.
* persia apologises for incorrectly presuming such actions
<minghua> persia is as polite as a Japanese. :-)
* persia looks out the window again, wondering why :)
<Fujitsu> persia: It was a fairly valid presumption, I almost didn't think of it.
<minghua> persia: You are not a native Japanese, aren't you?
* minghua thinks persia's name looks rather European.
<persia> minghua: No, I just tend towards cultural flexibility, where feasible
* Fujitsu must go to Japan at some point.
* minghua grumbles at GCC developers who mark strings in dump-parse-tree.c translatable.
<persia> Fujitsu: If you do, take the Melbourne -> Tokyo flight, as the change in Sydney is really poorly managed (in my experience)
<gnomefreak> anyone know if our libpng... supports animated png images?
<Fujitsu> gnomefreak: You probably want libmng
<gnomefreak> hmmmm
<Fujitsu> Ah, I see libpng has very basic mng support
* Fujitsu checks the builds logs
<gnomefreak> that could be a problem but a good idea just hope -trunk likes it rather than using --enable-png
<minghua> I doubt gnomefreak meant MNG.
<minghua> The mozilla people are extending the PNG format for a new animated image format, APNG is the name I think.
<gnomefreak> firefox 3.0 enabled animated png and it FTB with our libpng package along with --enable-png
<gnomefreak> minghua: that would be it
<gnomefreak> but we dont have APNG 
<gnomefreak> but i thought libpng supported APNG (maybe not enough for firefox
<minghua> gnomefreak: I doubt it.  Unless ubuntu is using a different libpng package than the Debian one.
<gnomefreak> im looking at them now but i might have been mistaken
<minghua> I heard libpng people were not happy with the Mozilla people's change.
* gnomefreak not happy with it either atm
<gnomefreak> it seems mozilla has changed alot in granparadiso that we cant use and its starting to get annoying
<Fujitsu> ?
<gnomefreak> well if i get time maybe patching this to regress back to stable firefox as far as png and cairo is concered
<Kmos> persia: bug 99393
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 99393 in vmware-player "Please update vmware-player to version 2" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99393
<persia> Kmos: What about it?
* gnomefreak hates that word regress but i will ping asac about it tomorrow if hes around or if im around and see what we can do with it
<Kmos> persia: i don't think it's in progress
<Kmos> i've subscribed mvo
<persia> Kmos: OK.  #ubuntu-bugs is probably a better place to discuss bug status.  Why ask me?
<Kmos> nothing in concrete
<Kmos> you're a motu, right
<Kmos> maybe you can package it :)
<persia> Kmos: It's better to ask the channel in general, rather than a specific person, unless there is a concrete reason.  This improves your chances of getting the right person's attention.
* gnomefreak would find out who jay camp is and ask him since he packaged the pre release
<Kmos> i added a comment
<persia> Kmos: With regards to vmware: it was waiting on updated kernel modules, which I haven't seen yet (although I hasn't looked in the last couple weeks).
<Kmos> jcamp@vmware.com
<Kmos> he's from vmware :)
<gnomefreak> Kmos: i changed tag to get it more attention
<persia> Kmos: Also, while MOTUs can package, most of us are very unlikely to respond to packaging requests in IRC, unless we have a specific interest in the package.  We also very much appreciate assistance: e.g. a sample (tested) upgrade package on REVU, etc.
<Kmos> persia: ok
<Kmos> gnomefreak: nice
<gnomefreak> also asked if Jay was gonna package final 2.0
<man-di_> persia: status update: eclipse is progressing slowly
* gnomefreak will be leaving tomorrow somet ime nad i wont be back for atleast 4 days
<persia> man-di_: Thanks.  Good luck with it.
<man-di_> persia: I really need luck...
<persia> man-di_: Is it that broken?  Should we consider attempting to revert to the older version?
<man-di_> its not that broken
<persia> Ah, good :)
<man-di_> its just that the latest ecj update broke another part...
<man-di_> I expect to have a debdiff later today
<man-di_> persia: I would like to do an upload to debian and then merge this one to gutsy
<man-di_> persia: as both distros are broken in the same way
<persia> man-di_: Can we do that?  I thought that the control file needed to be regenerated for Ubuntu.
<man-di_> persia: that is why a merge is needed, and not a sync
<persia> man-di_: Ah.  Sorry: I misread "merge" as sync.  Sounds good.
<man-di_> the whole problem began because I filed a sync request ... I dont wanna repeat this fault
<persia> man-di_: It's probably good in the long run: it's better to find the larger issue from the small mistake, as otherwise it just festers...
<man-di_> right
<man-di_> the good thing is that I found the ecj build issue, otherweise eclipse would be NBS now (and I dont know if thats tested so often)
<persia> man-di_: I think the NBS reports are run every 6 hours or so, but I'm not absolutely sure.  Having eclipse NBS would be a little odd :)
<man-di_> every six hours? eclipse alone takes 2 hours to build here
<man-di_> aah, NBS is only checking build dependencies, not actively building packages
<persia> man-di_: Not even build-dependencies.  I think it's something similar to quinn-diff, but only seeking NBS (at least I've not heard about ARBA, etc. in Ubuntu).
<Kmos> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ipkungfu/0.6.1-4
<Kmos> can i release a fix for the package with name 0.6.1-0ubuntu1 
<Kmos> ?
<Kmos> it doesn't use ubuntu name
<man-di_> persia: ah okay
<man-di_> persia: thx
<persia> Kmos: Firstly, as said before, you'll get better response (even from me) by asking the channel.  I'm likely to stop responding to specific requests soon :)  Secondly, without looking, I'd think that 0.6.1-4ubuntu1 would be a better choice.  You probably want to check with the defauly behaviour of dch -i (which you should be using for changelog updates), or perhaps dpkg --compare-versions.
<Kmos> persia: ok :) thx
* persia notices that it's Monday in Kiribati
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:persia] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | It's REVU Day.  If you're a reviewer, please try to clear the queue.  If you're an uploader, be sure to announce the status of your package to get attention
<minghua> Err... It's not even Sunday morning here yet.
<TheMuso> Thats one thing about the world that I still find fascinating.
<persia> minghua: Not my fault if you live in an odd time zone :)  By my count, we've 49 hours until it's Tuesday in American Samoa
* persia heard that there were 49.5 hours in an international day, but hasn't been able to identify the right timezones, and usually misses the start and end times of REVU day by > 30 minutes anyway
<minghua> Fair enough.
<minghua> Let those nice MOTUs at Kiribati go rolling, I'm going bed. :-P
<persia> For those amused by such things, http://www.google.com/search?q=what+time+is+it+in+Niue%3F and http://www.google.com/search?q=what+time+is+it+in+Kiritimati%3F seem the easiest way to generate the appropriate times.
* Fujitsu decides he should probably do the hug day announcement tonight.
* Q-FUNK hugs the announcement
* StevenK decides to just upload quantlib-cruft given it has taken 2 and a half hours to grab all off my RAM and done nothing./
<Fujitsu> Ah, another one of mine.
<Fujitsu> (no, I haven't uploaded the rest this time)
* StevenK is also sitting behind a laggy link.
<StevenK> If quantlib-swig can take 2 and a half hours for one g++ command, I don't want to build it.
<Fujitsu> Heheh.
<StevenK> And with g++ taking up 1.2Gb of RAM, too.
<TheMuso> StevenK: ouch
<Hobbsee> persia: oh no, revu day!
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep.  Only 47 hours left, so hurry :)
* Hobbsee grumbles
* Hobbsee will prefer to write a resume, and do release-type stuff.
<man-di_> when will be next MOTU Council meeting?
<TheMuso> man-di_: THe motu council never meet.
<man-di_> TheMuso: never?
<TheMuso> man-di_: No.
<man-di_> TheMuso: doesnt the motu concil decide about new motus?
<TheMuso> man-di_: Yes.
<TheMuso> Via email
<man-di_> aah, I thought irc meeting
<TheMuso> Nope.
<man-di_> okay
<man-di_> thanks
<TheMuso> Mainly due to the fact that they are all in different timezones, and meeting can be difficult.
<TheMuso> np
<persia> TheMuso: There may be special, unofficial meetings, but nothing is ever officially decided in those.
<TheMuso> persia: Right.
<Jazzva> Umm, if I'm submitting a new package to REVU, and there is already an Ubuntu package somewhere out there, do I have to make it from source, or can I just submit the existing package with some corrections?
<Jazzva> Also, since it's REVU day, there is a package I submitted few days ago: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6010 :). Thanks for reviewing
<persia> Jazzva: Are your changes a new upstream version, or just packaging changes (dependencies, patch, etc.)?
<Jazzva> persia: Packaging changes, just to make it ok with the policy :).
<persia> Jazzva: In that case, you probably will get a faster response by attaching a debdiff to a bug.  See the "Preparing New Revisions" section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing for some guidelines, and an explanation of the process.  Ask here if you have any questions.
<Jazzva> persia: Hmm, but the package isn't in the repos yet. I meant there is already an Ubuntu package, but somewhere on the net.
* Hobbsee ponders making a package to review
<persia> Jazzva: Ah.  My misunderstanding then.  REVU is the way to go: I'd recommend getting in touch with the person who created that package, as they may be willing to help.
<persia> Hobbsee: It's REVU day, so there's a good chance you can get it in if you do.
<Hobbsee> well, i'd have to *create* one first.
<Hobbsee> and it'd have to be a new package, as anything else i can just straight upload
<TheMuso> something weird just happened with my setup here...
<persia> TheMuso: ?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: bug 29733
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 29733 in flite "flite: upstream released 1.3-release 6 months ago" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/29733
<Kmos> try this one :)
<TheMuso> persia: Dunno. I just lost connectivity between all machines.
<Hobbsee> no, no, me dumping stuff on REVU.  not taking stuff off it
<persia> TheMuso: Very odd.  Any recent updates?
<Hobbsee> Kmos: besides, going thru your package would require a fine toothed comb, iirc.
<TheMuso> persia: No. Anyway, back on now.
<persia> Hobbsee: Right.  If you dump things, and annouce them, we're more likely to advocate today than other days :)
<Jazzva> persia: Did that. I'm already building it from source, but then I got a question am I using the package they provided. I think I read somewhere that if it's a new package then it has to be built from source (but maybe I just imagined that :)).
<Hobbsee> persia: :P
<persia> Jazzva: Yes.  Packages in the repositories must be built from source.
<Kmos> Hobbsee: toothed comb ?
<Kmos> what's that
<Hobbsee> Kmos: ie, i'd have to go through it very carefully
<Jazzva> persia: Thanks :D. That's what I needed...
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and at the new LP the day before release?  nothing, i hope.
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: What are you wanting to get in?
<Kmos> Hobbsee: just do it from scratch
<Hobbsee> TheMuso: nothing, i was joking :P
<TheMuso> Hobbsee: Oh ok.
<Hobbsee> still, a package that will write my resume for me will be appreciated...
<Hobbsee> and do any interviews...
<persia> Hobbsee: Don't we already have some chatbots in the archive for the interviews?  A tool to draft your CV probably needs a new package.
<Hobbsee> persia: hmmm... :)
<Hobbsee> pity
<Hobbsee> Kmos: true.  that's what i'd likely have to do.  and i'd prefer to do other things.
* Hobbsee starts reading the MOTU stuff, and hopes for the solution to drop from the air
<Kmos> Hobbsee: you can try to flite one from scratch.. i haven't created a package with sucess for it.. some errors on compile because of some PDA code
<Hobbsee> Kmos: oh right, so it's not ready for sponsorship anyway
<Kmos> no
<Kmos> http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/flite/doc/flite_4.html#SEC7
<TheMuso> I'd be happy to lend a hand somewhere, as it is a package I care about somewhat.
<TheMuso> Even though it does sound quite crap compared to other synths around.
<Kmos> TheMuso: bug 126106
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126106 in ipkungfu "ipkungfu script uses wrong shell interpreter" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/126106
<Kmos> i've attached a debdiff
<Kmos> :)
<TheMuso> Kmos: I am referring to flite.
<Kmos> :-)
<Kmos> this ipkungfu is easy one.. just a little patch
<Kmos> to change /bin/sh to /bin/bash
<Hobbsee> why not just fix the bashisms?
<Hobbsee> that's the usual protocol for such things
<Kmos> it's in bash
<Kmos> but the author use /bin/sh on first line of init.d scirpt
<Kmos> script
<Hobbsee> yes, i realise that, but why not change the bashisms so it actually runs wiht /bin/sh?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I hope not too.  The last one doesn't encourage, but we'll see.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: with any luck, the cds will be built before the rollout, and we wont have to respin.  but, we'll see
<Kmos> Hobbsee: it's more easy to change all the code to work with sh or just change one line ?
<Kmos> and the ipkungfu script is in bash
<man-di_> Kmos: nobody said you should go the easiest way
<Kmos> man-di_: yeah. but the standard author way =)
<Hobbsee> er, i may be incorrect here....but, is that run during boot, where the only shell available is sh?
<Hobbsee> or, possibly run during boot, where /bin/sh is the only script?
<persia> Hobbsee: Depends on which runlevel: probably not.
<Hobbsee> i'm not sure where bash actually kicks in
<Hobbsee> persia: right
<persia> Kmos: If I remember correctly, policy states that all init scripts must execute with /bin/sh
<Kmos> persia: so why mysql uses bash at /etc/init.d ?
<persia> Kmos: Perhaps it's not compliant with the latest policy?  Alternately, my memory could be incorrect.
<Kmos> most of them are sh
<Kmos> but mysql is bash
<Hobbsee> or perhaps because it hastn been changed yet
<Kmos> i'm changing it to sh
<Kmos> =)
<Kmos> so will attach soon another debdiff
<persia> Jazzva: 6010 commented.
<Kmos> there is something to validate sh code of bash code ?
<persia> Kmos: /bin/sh
<StevenK> dash -n will give a pretty good idea.
<TheMuso> Night folks.
<StevenK> That won't catch everything, like bashism variable interpolation.
<Hobbsee> night TheMuso 
* persia is intrigued by -n, and adds to list of useful information
<StevenK> persia: Perl has similar, -c
<Kmos> persia: if i do /bin/sh script.sh, it will give me errors if it has bash instructions ?
<persia> I've always used -w.  -c is much nicer.
<StevenK> -w and -c do different things.
<Kmos> ok
<persia> Kmos: It should (/bin/sh should be a link to dash).  You can force /bin/dash if you like.
<persia> StevenK: Very much so :)
<StevenK> -c only parses it.
<jpatrick> raphink: ping
<Q-FUNK> I was comparing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment and http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember/  but I'm confused as to which one I'm supposed to follow.
<Q-FUNK> Especially seeing as most of my work is doen on the Debian side of things.
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: is that ubuntu membership, vs motu?
<jpatrick> Q-FUNK: you need to be a member first, in order to become an MOTU (iirc)
<persia> jpatrick: No such restriction, although it's easier to become a member than a MOTU, and working with MOTU is a good way to show contributions towards membership.
<jpatrick> persia: ok, got it, haven't been around for a while :)
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: i believe it used to be that way :P
<persia> jpatrick: No worries.  In practice, you're correct, as anyone who would be considered an acceptable MOTU must meet the requirements as an acceptable member as well.
* persia also understands it used to be that way
* Hobbsee wonders if jpatrick will hold the record of being the youngest core dev too, at some point.
<Q-FUNK> I'm mainly wondering whether I need to show up at any IRC meeting.  oen metions that everything is done by e-mail, the other seems more involved.
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: I found something to do, but I need to earn my MOTU powers back
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: oh, you revoked them?  damn
* Fujitsu can't recall if he's younger than jpatrick.
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: No, I was considered "inactive"
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: darn.  there's a techboard meeting in a copule of days
<Hobbsee> but they may require proof that you're the actual jpatrick, etc
<StevenK> Fujitsu: I think I have a cassette deck older than you. :-P
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: cloak? lol
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: probably an encrypted mail, etc.
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: anywya, if you need sponsorship, you're welcome to it
<StevenK> Signed would do it, I think
<StevenK> Since signing requires the private key
<Hobbsee> StevenK: then again, they were wanting \sh to actually present himself at a conference, when they were being very pedantic
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: first, I need to find a REVU admin that's still around
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: what for?
<Q-FUNK> adding to the confusion, I already signed the code of conduct.  it's listed on my launchpad page.
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: forgot old key's pass :( made a new one
<persia> Q-FUNK: That's a good first step: you'd need to have done that for either application.
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: as in, new key?
<StevenK> Oh my stars! arb fails to build because our gcc is not one of x listed versions.
<persia> jpatrick: Is your new key on LP Yet?
<jpatrick> persia: yep
<Fujitsu> StevenK: Niice!
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: throw it on revu, be in the ubuntu-universe-contributors team, and i'll resync.
<Hobbsee> i dont think that was there, during dapper...iirc, the keys were done manually
<Q-FUNK> I think thereneeds to be a cleanup.  between ubuntero, member, core dev and motu - too many categories and a not so clear poitn of entry.
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: joined
<persia> Hobbsee: Yep, it was manual then.
<Hobbsee> oh yes, that's right, and ajmitch had a go at me for it.
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: They are all very well defined...
<eagles0513875> persia: u identified dude cuz i got a question and i dont want to take the channel off topic
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: /whois him....
<eagles0513875> Hobbsee: ?
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: shouldnt be that complicated, is all explained under !contribute
<persia> Q-FUNK: That's partially intentional.  The only restrictions in place are that you must be ubuntero to join most closed teams (code of conduct), and that you must be motu to be core-dev.  membership is parallel.
<Hobbsee> eagles0513875: to see if he's identified or not
<Q-FUNK> Fujitsu: i don't think i would be asking for clarification if things were so well defined. :)
<eagles0513875> ahhh ok  ty Hobbsee
<persia> eagles0513875: Are you sure it needs to be me?  For most things, asking in the channel would be better :)
* Hobbsee watches the keyring resync.
* StevenK watches arb build. Again.
<Q-FUNK> persia: see, from the outside, the order appears to be ubunttero -> motu -> dev -> core-dev
<persia> Q-FUNK: That would be correct.
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: dev wasnt in your original lsit
<StevenK> motu and dev are the same
<StevenK> motu == ubuntu-dev
<Hobbsee> where motu also includes the core devs
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: I don't remember being a core dev..
<persia> Q-FUNK: Right.  Sorry.  Drop "dev".  ~ubuntu-dev ~ MOTU + core
<Hobbsee> i thought they were depreciating the term MOTU
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: no, i meant in the future
<persia> Hobbsee: No, MOTU is still used, it's just not appropriate to describe developers, but rather the team that cooperates here.
<Hobbsee> ah right, so they're depreciating ubuntu-dev
<jpatrick> Hobbsee: well I have two months free for now, then I got "study, study, study" according to what everyone says
<eagles0513875> persia: im afraid it would take the channel off topic
<Q-FUNK> so, unclear entry point and unclear whether I need to show up for an IRC meeitng as per http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember/ or whetehr e-mail is enough as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<eagles0513875> persia: but if u insist
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: heh.  they said that to me, too.  i'm not really following it though :P
<Hobbsee> jpatrick: but you should be good and study, yes
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: what are you tryign to go for?
<Q-FUNK> please bear in mind that i'm a regular so if I'm confused, think how others must see this
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: membership, or MOTU?
<persia> Hobbsee: I didn't think that was the case either.  I think ubuntu-dev was intended to be used to describe the developers in general, without reference to universe vs. main.  Anyway, I'm confused.
<Hobbsee> heh, right
<white> Hobbsee: so when can I expect you here in good old Melbourne? At least you could visit Melbourne this semester ... ;)
<Q-FUNK> I think that simplifying this to dev=universe and core-deve=main might make this easier to grasp for everyone
<Fujitsu> Q-FUNK: We just moved away from dev=universe in February or so, AFAICR
<StevenK> Q-FUNK: However, http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember describes the Membership processes, where as https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment talks about recruiting people into MOTU, which are two seperate and distinct processes
<Hobbsee> white: melbourne is cold, and i dislike it
<Q-FUNK> great.  more confusion.
<persia> Q-FUNK: No: many core-devs also work in universe - we tried that, and it added to the confusion.
<white> Hobbsee: well yes, but we have some cool debian/ubuntu people here ;)
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: also, core devs are also devs, as in, people who can upload to main can also upload to universe...
<Hobbsee> white: maybe.  you guys should come up here
<white> Hobbsee: and i dislike cold as well. Now it is getting very hot back home :(
<Hobbsee> awww
<Q-FUNK> persia: core-dev can work anywhere by definition, but have exclusive dibs over main, isn't it?
<StevenK> No wonder arb lists support GCC versions, it uses GCC-isms everywhere.
* StevenK drops it, and washes his hands.
<persia> Q-FUNK: Somewhat, although non-core can also be sponsored.
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: i'm mainly trying to untie the confusion between motu (simple e-mail request as admission process) and dev (mail, plus IRC session and then some as admission process).
<persia> Q-FUNK: Admission to dev and admission to MOTU are identical.
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: but http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember has nothing to do with neither motu nor dev...
<Q-FUNK> persia: not accoridng to the baove pages I found, hence why  I asked.
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: which further adds to the confusion
<Hobbsee> !contribute
<ubotu> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<StevenK> Membership is seperate from becoming a developer.
<Q-FUNK> too many notes, Mozart, too many notes.
<persia> Q-FUNK: I've just looked at the pages, and I can't find "developer" in the membership page, nor references to membership in the recruitment page (which needs a serious appointment with an aestheticist)
<StevenK> I quite like the distinction between member and developer.
<StevenK> If I can pick on elkbuntu, she is a member, and is recognized for her contribution, but isn't a developer.
<Hobbsee> i wonder why http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate doesnt mention membership at all
<elkbuntu> who's picking on me?
* persia further appreciates the distinction between ubuntero and member (although I still don't like the term)
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: everyone
<StevenK> elkbuntu: In a good way
<Hobbsee> !member
<ubotu> Want to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember
* elkbuntu pouts
* Hobbsee huggles elkbuntu 
<Q-FUNK> persia: there is a link to the member page from the motu page I showed, suggesting that general crieteria apply.  and yet joining motu only requires an e-mail, while becoming a membe ris a more elaborate process.
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Sorry, you're the first person I thought of that's a member but not a developer. :-)
<elkbuntu> StevenK, no prob :)
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: you've showed many pages - which page were you referring to?
<persia> Hobbsee: There's no reason why non-members shouldn't contribute, and there's no restriction on membership for any teams.  I don't see how it's relevant.
<elkbuntu> im just going insane trying to join some avi's together
<persia> Q-FUNK: Which page?
<Hobbsee> persia: true - i just note that it's not there, when it used to be
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Is transcoding them to mpg an option?
* persia thinks the removal was a good idea
<StevenK> elkbuntu: If so, there's a tool called mpgcat
<Q-FUNK> persia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment
<Hobbsee> persia: probably.  clearly i havent looked at the page in that long :P
<Hobbsee> neither my wiki page
<elkbuntu> StevenK, the problem isnt the joining them, it is the getting them all the same fps, size, audio etc
<StevenK> Heh, my wiki page is also collecting lots of dust.
<StevenK> elkbuntu: Eww
<persia> Hobbsee: I'm probably biased though, given the nature of my participation in ~ubuntu-members
<elkbuntu> StevenK, yeah
<StevenK> It's ~ubuntumembers, actually
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK:  oh, member of the motu team, that bit is
<StevenK> Yay for consistancy
<Hobbsee> heh
<persia> Q-FUNK: That's a use/mention distinction.  In that context "membership" refers to membership in the MOTU team, not Ubuntu membership.
<Hobbsee> well, it's otherwise referenced as "team member", whihc, although it's an evil workism, is reasonably clear
<Q-FUNK> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment links to http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember as general criteria to meet before applying to motu
<persia> Q-FUNK: Yes.  If you don't meet the criteria for membership, you cannot be a MOTU, as being a MOTU automatically grants membership if it was not previously granted.
<Q-FUNK> persia: again, that doesn't answer my question.  do I just need to update my wiki page and send an -email to the address mentioned there for motu or must I also show up for an IRC meeting of the comunity council as mentioned in newmember?
<Hobbsee> there we go, clearer now
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: you have to do membership first.
<Hobbsee> if you're not already a member
<Hobbsee> which is the irc meeting with the CC, etc
<persia> Q-FUNK: Depends on what you want.  If you want to join MOTU, you'll want to have several MOTUs tell you to apply first: if that has happened, sending the mail is fine.  If you want membership, or haven't yet met all the criteria for MOTU, the CC meeting is the way to go.
<persia> Hobbsee: Not true.  One can go from non-member to MOTU, if one works with MOTU enough.
<Fujitsu> Was the MOTU Council granted that right? I don't recall.
<Hobbsee> persia: that sounds...very racy.
<Hobbsee> i didnt think it was
<persia> Fujitsu: Yes.
<Fujitsu> It was going to be granted after a trial period, I thought.
<Q-FUNK> getting back to the specifics of my case, I mention packages in Debian and also track bugs on Ubuntu for them.  I run a mixture of Debian and Ubuntu on my cluster.
<Q-FUNK> mention/maintain
<Hobbsee> are you a DD?
<Q-FUNK> NM
<Q-FUNK> I haven't bothered applying for NM for a long time
<persia> Q-FUNK: OK.  Have a couple MOTUs given you unsolicited advice to apply to MOTU?
<Q-FUNK> I have already been maintianing packages in Debian since late2003, early-2004 or so.
<Q-FUNK> persia: yup
<StevenK> -rw-r--r-- 1 steven users  19M 2007-07-10 19:22 epydoc_3.0~beta1-1.patch
<StevenK> Ouch! Bad MoM!
<Q-FUNK> or actually, I think the advice came from a core-dev who presumed that I was already DD, until I had asked him to sponsor an upload to debian thatmerged ubuntu fixes.
<persia> Q-FUNK: You could apply, but generally the preference is for those working directly on Ubuntu.  Membership is one of the ways to show this, and would help your application.
* Hobbsee notes that people will tend to veto if they're not sure of a person's ability for uploading, and understanding the ways MOTU works.
<Q-FUNK> persia: I work on both. i just merge the fixes directly into Debian.
<persia> Q-FUNK: My apologies: I mean no offense.  I'm not familiar with your work, so I'm just spewing generalities in hopes that it will help you make a decision.
<StevenK> Which, strictly speaking, isn't contributing directly to Ubuntu ...
<Q-FUNK> StevenK: my activity level on launchpad speaks for itself.
<Fujitsu> Upload privileges are granted to those who need to upload. Merging fixes into Debian doesn't require that, I don't think.
<persia> Q-FUNK: Be careful: defensiveness about one's readiness has previously been raised as grounds for delaying approval to MOTU.
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: got anything that you currently need reviewing?
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: nope.
<Hobbsee> that's helpful.
<Q-FUNK> persia: I'm ok with that. 
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: :)
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: why did you ask?
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: was looking to sponsor some of your stuff, so then i could put in a more concrete opinion, if/when you apply for MOTU.
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: mpitt is my usual sponsor for Ubuntu-specific uploads. we co-maintian packages in both distros.
<elektranox> can somebody review my package? (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5902)
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: right
<Q-FUNK> Hobbsee: I had a fairly extensive discussion of NM vs MOTU and DD vs UD issues with him.  you're welcome to ask him for a sumary of my views and for his appreciation of my packages.
<persia> Q-FUNK: The key is that you want to get as many MOTUs as possible to sponsor you, and say good things.  One person with excellent opinions won't help as much.
<Hobbsee> Q-FUNK: oh, i will be, if you put in an application
<Hobbsee> as will i be mentioning how much you tend to work with others, and the MOTU team.
<Q-FUNK> persia: as I do most of my uploads via Debian to avoid deltas, that would require other MOTU members who also sponsor my packages on Debian to vouch for me.
<StevenK> There aren't many MOTU who can do that.
<Q-FUNK> The glass is at least half-full.  there _are_ some. :)
<persia> Q-FUNK: Hmm..  Yes, it would.  That makes it hard for you to get the community support required for MOTU.  I'd suggest applying for membership, with a good Future Plans, and demonstrating implementation.  You might also try to get a couple specs in for gutsy+1, and get them implemented.  That might make up for the lack of direct uploads to Ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> sounds like you need to go thru NM and such, and get to DD, more than getting MOTU, imo.  i may be wrong.
<StevenK> Discounting core-devs, I can't think of any.
<persia> Q-FUNK: Separately, if you're uploading to Debian, rather than Ubuntu, how would MOTU help?
<Hobbsee> i cant see how having upload rights to universe here, will actually help you with what you do
<Q-FUNK> there's occasional forks I need to manage, whenever Debian practices differ from Ubuntu.
<persia> Q-FUNK: About how many packages?  Also, does the sponsors queue not work well for you?
<Q-FUNK> likewise when a fix won't make it to Debian because of a freeze, but would still have time to make it to Ubuntu.
<Q-FUNK> persia: point taken.  I could try REVU whenever I have Ubuntu-specific fixes.
<persia> Q-FUNK: Alternately, if it's small, just attach a debdiff against the Debian package to a bug, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors.  If it's only Ubuntu, attach a debdiff against the latest Ubuntu package, and subscribe the same team.  If it's a main package, you'll want ubuntu-main-sponsors instead.
<blueCommand> Hello, I'm trying to build a package from REVU, but pbuilder says "E: Couldn't find package wine-dev". That package is installed, but I guess I need to do something else since it uses a fakeroot, correct?
<geser> blueCommand: what arch are you on?
<blueCommand> 386
<Q-FUNK> persia: the only process I haven't got much experience with is dput'ing. I wouldn't mind uploading via REVU, from that perspective.
<Q-FUNK> blueCommand: is it in your build-depends?
<geser> blueCommand: is universe enabled in your pbuilder?
<persia> Q-FUNK: You're welcome to do that, but there's only intensive effort to upload from REVU once a week.  You'll get a faster response from bugs (and it's easier for us to review, which makes us happy).
<blueCommand> Q-FUNK, Bear with me, you mean for the package?
<blueCommand> geser, Probably not
<Q-FUNK> blueCommand: for the source control file
<blueCommand> Q-FUNK, Mean this "Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), wine-dev, libsocket++-dev"?
<blueCommand> geser, Where can I set that?
<geser> blueCommand: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto#head-5e61fa0f52f7f2442fb20f074813bd691744460b
<blueCommand> Thanks
<blueCommand> Must have missed that section
<AnAnt> ScottK: Hello
<AnAnt> ScottK: regarding your comments on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5910, in what section in the manpage should I refer to the actual help ?
<persia> AnAnt: Sometimes people are away.  You'll always get a better response asking the channel generally (although mentioning the reviewer's name is handy, in case they are around (as this one may be)
<AnAnt> Hello, regarding the comments on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5910, in what section in the manpage should I refer to the actual help ?
<AnAnt> persia: thanks
<AnAnt> ?!
<persia> AnAnt: I'm looking, but I haven't been able to determine enough about what the package does to understand why there is that manpage, or how it helps the user.  I suspect the comment was a request to make the man page a little more of a manual, explaining how to use the software, which command-line switches were available, where to find installed data files, etc.
<AnAnt> ic
<persia> AnAnt: Hmm..  I'm really not finding enough information to guide you further.  Sorry.
<persia> AnAnt: Also, your package was mentioned in the reviews for the zekr package.  I'm not sure what the thwab-lib library would contain, but we like to avoid duplication of data, so you may want to coordinate with that packaging team to ensure that the systems can work together if required.
<AnAnt> np
<davromaniak> apacheLAGger2, are you here ?
<man-di> lionel: regarding #126089 and #126090,: Whyt are sync bugs that make a package buildable again marked "Wishlist"?
<persia> man-di: For sponsored bugs, without already set Importance, the guidance is to use "Wishlist" unless you really want to investigate.  Don't worry about it - it doesn't affect the further processing.
<man-di> persia: thanks for the explanation
<jpatrick> can someone please look at my upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6019 ?
<persia> More generally, a sync bug ACK'd by a developer will be sync'd regardless of priority unless it breaks a freeze.
<geser> jpatrick: done, see my comment
* jpatrick looks
<persia> elektranox: 5902 commented
<Baby> persia: hex-a-hop has finally entered debian, I'll try to find out how to trigger it entering into Ubuntu as soon as I finish reading mail and so on :)
<persia> Baby: Great.  The easiest trigger is to report a bug against Ubuntu (no package) with content that matches the bugs for snowballz and whichwayisup.  Once reported, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors (with subscribe someone else) to get it in queue for sponsorship.  Also, if you don't mind, could you subscribe both nightrose and I?
<jpatrick> geser: I include them ALL?
* Hobbsee ponders just requesting a sync from here
<Baby> of course :)
* Hobbsee hugs Baby 
<Baby> Hobbsee: hi!!!! :))))
<persia> Hobbsee: Certain far northern interests have expressed grave displeasure at syncs without bugs.
<Baby> *hug*
<Baby> btw, I'm uploading a new game today XD
<persia> Which game?
<Baby> I'll write about it in my weblog soon i guess :)
<Baby> cultivation
<Hobbsee> persia: no, i meant using requestsync, so Baby didnt have to request the sync from here
<Baby> I finally solved that double free() problem I was having with it :)
<Hobbsee> persia: i dont have archive access, anyway
<Baby> what's  requestsync?
<persia> Hobbsee: If you like.  Given the number of games that Baby watches, I'd think practice with the process would be good, but that's just me (and I really should go stick dh_icons in a bunch of places and request syncs).
<Hobbsee> Baby: a script that requests a sync of ubuntu packages
<persia> Baby: It's a command line interface to report a sync bug.
<Baby> aps! cool!
<Hobbsee> persia: true
<Nafallo> hi Baby :-)
<Hobbsee> Baby: it's in our devscripts.  make sure, if you use it, that you specify with -s, which means you need a sponsor
* persia thinks using Ubuntu devscripts anywhere near a Debian machine can be dangerous
<Hobbsee> well, i wasnt thinking of *all* of them
<Baby> 48 comments marked as spam  .... having a weblog is a pain in the ass sometimes
<Baby> sorry for the language :P
<elkbuntu> hehe... do you use akismet?
<persia> Baby: I've not been following dh_icons discussion closely.  Would it make sense to push back all the Ubuntu dh_iconcache calls, or should there be some discussion on the list?
<Baby> nope, but i know i should :)
<Baby> dh_iconcache does not exist in debian, does it?
<elkbuntu> yep, you should
<Baby> so we should need to add it conditionally
<Baby> if dh_iconcache exists then call it, or something like that, so it's compatible with both
<persia> Baby: No, but dh_icons does (as I understand it), and Ubuntu dh_iconcache has been rewritten to call dh_icons.
<Baby> aha
<Baby> cool :)
<Baby> I want to make packages the most compatible the possible between both
<Baby> in any case it makes sense writing about it in the list
<Baby> if you prefer me to bring in the topic in the list, just tell me :)
<persia> Baby: Thanks.  I'll do that.
<Toma-> Is anyone working on getting gimpshop into the repos?
<Baby> gimpshop was that fork of gimp making it similar to photoshop?
<Toma-> indeed
<Baby> it was too hacky :(
<Baby> they changed all the text messages directly
<Baby> so i guess translations won't work any more
<Toma-> oh i see
<Baby> I had a look at it some time ago, unless they fixed it
<Baby> but have a look at it carefully, because it'llprobably be ahell to maintain
<Toma-> ill see what the website says about intl support
<Baby> :)
<Baby> what i did was getting the original gimp version that was referred as the point of the fork
<Baby> and made a diff against it
<Baby> and the diff was too hacky to be considered seriously
<Baby> even though some parts of it made sense, like the new XML trees and so
<Baby> what scared me was all the changes inside the _("") gettext lines
<Baby> instead of making them in the .po
<persia> Umm..  That's an interesting way to do it.
<Toma-> well, the site even quotes "Gimpshop: a GIMP hack"
<Toma-> theres an ubuntu deb available from them anyway
<Baby> XD yup
<Baby> are they actively maintainig the fork?
<Baby> or is it just a one-time fork?
<Toma-> 2.2.11?
<Toma-> looks a little behind
<persia> Toma-: I think we're at 2.3.18
<Baby> i told you, it would be a hell to maintain, even for them
<Toma-> 2.2.13 here :o
<Baby> the patch can be adapted to be properly done anyway, if there's interest
<Baby> it shouldn't be too difficult, I just wonder if it makes sense
<Toma-> just sick of people whining about photoshop :S
<Baby> yup, people complain about everything
<Toma-> oh well. thanks :D
<Baby> national sport i guess
<Baby> :)
<Toma-> :D
<geser> jpatrick: everyone who is mentioned in the source files to have a copyright should be mentioned in debian/copyright
<jpatrick> ok
<sacater> is it possible for me to use my @ubuntu.com account for jabber.
* Hobbsee looks strangely at Fujitsu 
* persia grumbles about the definition of community participation and a cooperative work ethic, but refuses to have a meaningful discussion on these issues at this time of day
<crimsun> something bothering you?
<Baby> persia: what time of the day is there? :)
<persia> Baby: 01:32.
<Baby> XD yup then I agree
* persia sleeps, hoping for for a different opinion later
<Baby> 18:30 here
<Nafallo> 18:33 < Baby> 18:30 here
<Nafallo> :-)
<Baby> :)
<Nafallo> Baby: so. how are you? :-)
<sommer> Hey all, I have a quick question about package control files that's probably a noob question but:
<sommer> what does the (= ${Source-Version}) part mean?
<sommer> the package's source?
<guest> I'm having problems with a package currently on REVU for comments. Anyone here prepared to give some advice?
<Hobbsee> sommer: means the same as the source version of the package
<Hobbsee> so, say the source package is 3.2-0ubuntu1, then that will depend on app with the version of 3.2-0ubuntu1
<Hobbsee> and break on any other versino
<sommer> Hobbsee: that's sort of what I was thinking, but wanted to make sure.  Thanks for the info
<Hobbsee> sommer: no problem :)
<guest> The problem is that I'm packaging my own source, so it's a native package with no diff file. Based on the comments on previous versions of the package, there seem to be some concerns with this approach, but I'm not sure exactly what they are.
<Baby> is the code ubuntu-specific?
<DktrKranz> could you please have a look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6020? it's a new upstream release of oggconvert
<guest> Baby: I assume that question directed to me. No, the source is not Ubuntu-specific, but the debian directory in the package is specifically for Ubuntu.
<Baby> then you should better release a .tgz and make the package non-native
<Baby> i can go through the pros and cons if you want, you might already know anyway
<guest> Can you please explain why the package should not be native? It's a pain to move the debian dir into a diff, and I don't understand why it's necessary.
<Baby> Hobbsee: do you have some time to teach me how to ask for the sync? :)
<Hobbsee> Baby: using the requestsync script?
<Hobbsee> or by hand?
<Baby> the easiest way :)
<Baby> :P
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Baby> guest: well the main pros will be that other distributions will be able to use it without being bothered with ubuntu-specific stuff, especially debian-derivatives, ....
<Baby> .diff changes over debian/ are a pain in the ass....
<Baby> then, if you change something in the packaging, you won't need to make a new release...
<Hobbsee> Baby: grab the requestsync out of the source at http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/devel/devscripts
<Hobbsee> Baby: chmod +x it, run requestsync for syntax options
<Baby> you just change the packaging stuff... in fact if other distros use it, upgrading the version for something specific of the packageing can be annoying
<Baby> going there :)
<Hobbsee> Baby: you'll end up needing requestsync -ns packagename gutsy
<Baby> aha, i need to install that? :)
<guest> Thanks, I suppose that does make sense.
<Hobbsee> well, i wouldnt install all of devscripts, seeing as some of it is ubuntu specific
<Baby> this is the easy way, isn't it? ;)
<Hobbsee> -n means new package, -s means that you need sponsorship for it, so it will subscribe the universe-sponsors, instead of the archive
<Hobbsee> yep
<Baby> XD
<Baby> oki, i'll extract the contents of that... i hope they don't have any dependency I need :)
<Hobbsee> Baby: it's just a script.  apt-cache...oh wait
<Baby> scripts have dependencies too, you know :)
<Hobbsee> oh, no, you should be rigth.  apt-cache rmadison -u ubuntu will work on a debian system
<Hobbsee> Baby: it used to use the local apt-cache, in whcih case you would have had a problem, obviously
<Baby> ah!
<Baby> ok, we go for the difficult way then? :)
<Hobbsee> but you should have apt-cache rmadison on your debian system
<Hobbsee> nah...
<guest> Two additional questions. (1) Could someone knowledgeable please take a look at my package "imageinfo"  on REVU to see if there are any other issues that need to be addressed other than the native/non-native package matter? (2) Once all packaging issues are resolved, do I need to do anything to find a MOTU to advocate the package?
<Hobbsee> i said that's the way it *used* to be - not the way it is now
<Baby> cool :)
<Baby> we need a GUI for all that stuff :P
<Hobbsee> Baby: have a look at the script if you like..
<Hobbsee> haha
<Baby> :)
* Hobbsee notes that assuming that a package never syncs to ubuntu main is actually right, and is not a bug.
<Baby> heh, it's python :)
<Hobbsee> yep
<Hobbsee> Baby: oh, you will need to have specified DEBEMAIL, and actually have a launchpad account
<Hobbsee> (which is connected to the account at DEBEMAIL)
<Hobbsee> else they wont know it's you
<Baby> I'll check if I have one, I really don't know
<Hobbsee> heh
<Hobbsee> otherwise i can just file it from here
<Baby> in any case i guess it would be problematic from here, i don'T have mail properly configured
<Hobbsee> possibly
<Hobbsee> it doesnt use a MTA
<Baby> yup, i guess it will be the best, can you do it for me?
<Hobbsee> Baby: otherwise, you just use the content of that, and file the bug with it
<Hobbsee> sure
<Hobbsee> which package names?
<Hobbsee> (source)
<Baby> please CC persia and nightrose too?
<Baby> hex-a-hop
<Baby> wait a second. i'll check
<Hobbsee> says it's not in debian yet
<Hobbsee> rmadison doesnt find it
<Baby> nop, not yet in the mirrors
<Baby> http://incoming.debian.org/
<Baby> we'll have to wait until tomorrow
<Baby> it's in incoming yet
<Hobbsee> ahhh
* Hobbsee ponders filing manually
<Baby> I just noticed
* Hobbsee submits a crappy bug report, then
<Baby> XDD
<Baby> you can wait until tomorrow
<Baby> it will be in the mirrors by then :)
<Hobbsee> Baby: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/126170
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 126170 in Ubuntu "Please sync hex-a-hop from Debian Incomming" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<Hobbsee> done.
<Hobbsee> i dont think they'll reject that
<Baby> thanks!! :)
<Hobbsee> as in, it doesnt say "no ubuntu changes", but it does say "new package to ubuntu" which syas the same thing
<Hobbsee> says the component to sync from
<Baby> can we subscribe persia and nightrose to that bug report too?
<Hobbsee> done
<Baby> thanks!!! :))))))))))
<Hobbsee> see the left hand pane, about half way down
<Hobbsee> no problem :)
* Hobbsee prefers to just be lasy and use requestsync :P
<Hobbsee> hmmm..     should teach requestsync about incomming too, maybe
<Baby> heh, I'm subscribed twice in lanuchpad :P
<Hobbsee> heh
<tuxmaniac> w00t! Intel joins the OLPC project
<Hobbsee> ask them to merge the accounts, if you want
<Baby> once with my yahoo mail and once with my gmail one :P
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Hobbsee> oh, you can merge them yourself then
<Hobbsee> if you have access to both
<Baby> that would be great :)
<Hobbsee> Baby: login to teh one that you want to kepe, go to the other one, and there should be something about "this is me, merge my account"
<Hobbsee> i wonder if that's only for uploads to debian, where phantom people have been created
<Hobbsee> oh, ick.  teaching it about incomming would be kinda hard, as you cant just use rmadison for that
<Baby> I'm still deciding which one I want to be my master account
<Hobbsee> ahhh
<Baby> I guess it makes more sense that it is yahoo's, as it is the one I sign my packages with
<Baby> even though gmail is much better
<Hobbsee> well, you can add multiple addresses to your key too, you know...
<Baby> yup... sometime I'll find out how anyway ;)
<Hobbsee> oh
<Hobbsee> gpg --edit-key <yourkeyid>
<Hobbsee> then adduid
<Baby> wait wait.. cannot do all at once :)
<Hobbsee> stick your name, comment, email
<Hobbsee> haha
<Baby> XD
<Hobbsee> "exit", say yes you want to save.  done.  resend key to keyservers.
<Baby> I'll use yahoo's
<Hobbsee> you can change the primary mail on it anyway
<Baby> OK, I'm in :)
<Hobbsee> after you merge accounts.
<Baby> now what? :)
<Hobbsee> which is the account you want to merge into yours?
<Baby> my master one is little_miry@yahoo.es , and the one I want to merge is little.miry@gmail.com
<Hobbsee> which is the launchpad ID of the latter one?
<Hobbsee> oh, found it
<Hobbsee> oh darn.  because you've actually registered both yourself, you cant magically merge them, i dont think
<Baby> It's ok anyway
<Hobbsee> Baby: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<Baby> I get lost in this environment :)
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, did you attend the Classmate PC discussion in Sevilla this year?
<Hobbsee> tuxmaniac: no - although there was some discussion in the lightning talks about it
<Hobbsee> Baby: hehe, it gets less confusing after a while
<tuxmaniac> Hobbsee, thanks
<Hobbsee> Baby: say teh summary as being "please merge the little-miry-gmail account into little-miry"
<Baby> I'm still trying to find out :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<Baby> it's quite strange, maybe they're already merged?
<Hobbsee> doesnt look like it
<Hobbsee> as in, they're showing separately
<Hobbsee> as you'll find if you use launchpad.net/~<lpid>
<Baby> guess I found it
<Baby> done!
<Hobbsee> yay!
<Baby> I'm changing the icons, photos and so :P XD
<Hobbsee> nice
<guest> [Trying again]  (1) Could someone knowledgeable please take a look at my package "imageinfo"  on REVU to see if there are any other issues that need to be addressed other than the native/non-native package matter? (2) Once all packaging issues are resolved, do I need to do anything to find a MOTU to advocate the package?
<Baby> I don't have the answers, sorry :(
<guest> Baby: Understood. Thanks for your help though.
<guest> Anyone else?
<elektranox> can somebody review 6021?
<PhinnFort> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=5913 while we're at it
<Q-FUNK> anybody who happens to be both a DD and a MOTU?
<regis> hello, can anyone tell me how to warn the maintainer of flash that their package has a problem(md5sum mismatch install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz)
<Q-FUNK> regis: file a bug in launchpad. it's probably related to the recently released upstream security fix.
<PhinnFort> regis: try downloading the file again...
<regis> PhinnFort, i ve tried that several times
<regis> thanks
<man-di> regis: macromedia changed did a new release with the same name/version of the old release
<man-di> regis: your version of the package migth check for the old md5sum value
<PhinnFort> ...that's why you should include full version in the name of source packages, kids
<PhinnFort> like flash-9.23.tar.gz instead of install_flash_player_9_linux.tar.gz, which must qualify for some naming stupidity prize
<man-di> PhinnFort: tell that Macromedia
<PhinnFort> I will
<PhinnFort> one day
<PhinnFort> when I'm rich and famous
<man-di> PhinnFort: you need to be rich and famous to write a mail to stupid@macromedia.com ?
<PhinnFort> man-di: I need to be rich and famous to get adobe to give a sh*t
<PhinnFort> they haven't even made a 64-but version, ffs
<mattva01> does anyone know if the  sobby 0.4 backport for dapper is available anywhere? this is urgent!
<Flannel> mattva01: I've backported it myself with prevu
<mattva01> thanks
<Flannel> mattva01: Prevu debs aren't industrial strength, but I'd be willing to let you have mine if you feel like trying them.  Since you've gotta do some version munging to get prevu to cooperate
<mattva01> if you do that it would save me a heart attack
<mattva01> :)
<mattva01> where would they be available?
<Flannel> mattva01: http://neal.bussett.com/ubuntu/
<Flannel> mattva01: I'm not sure if all of those are required.  In fact, I'm pretty sure only a few of them are.  the one's without the dev or dbg, but just inc ase, I put them up
<mattva01> thank you so much
<Flannel> I believe it's just the three.  libnet, libobby and then sobby.  wihout the dev and the dbg
<mattva01> yes
<mattva01> hmm im getting "address family not supported"
<mattva01> ah i see, i need ipv6 support
<Flannel> http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/ticket/201
<Flannel> yeah
<mattva01> hmm even with the latest net6 ( the one on your site) it still gives me that error
<Flannel> Did you disable ipv6 on Ubuntu?
<mattva01> no
<Flannel> I don't know then.  you might save time ultimately by backporting it yourself.  OR, you can, as I found out after backporting sobby, just use one gobby (from your machine) as a host
<Flannel> since gobby <-> gobby works as well as gobby <-> sobby <-> gobby
<mattva01> well thanks for your help
<Flannel> sorry I couldn't be more helpful
<regis> man-di, ok so i'll bugreport
<blueCommand> If I have all files (dsc, orig, changes etc), is there an easy way to extract this so I can make changes to it?
<jekil> anyone know what can cause this? http://rafb.net/p/Qln0nv60.html rules is: http://rafb.net/p/NZQZHv21.html
<elektranox> can somebody review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6021 ?
<blueCommand> How can I clean my tree and revert to whatever my .diff.gz and orig says? Extracting and applying patches normal is starting to be a hassle
<geser> jekil: have you tried to comment out lines 8 and 9 and only use debhelper.mk and python-distutils.mk?
<jekil> yes, same error
<blueCommand> At the moment I start revu-build and abort it, but that couldn't be the only way?
<zorglu_> q. what is the name of the feisty feature which intercept command line error in case of 'missing executable' to determine which package need to be installed to get the executable ?
<geser> jekil: than you need an cdbs expert
<blueCommand> zorglu_, "command-not-found"
<zorglu_> thanks
<blueCommand> np
<jekil> geser: yes :( i am searching it :(
<blueCommand> Are there any explict rules from running autogen in the rules file?
<broonie> blueCommand: It's a Good Thing to make sure all the files it produces are cleaned up so that they don't pollute the diff.
<blueCommand> broonie, will it really if I run it first in the rules file? isn't the diff to preserve the ideal state of the sourcetree when building?
<geser> jekil: try contacting the Debian maintainers for cdbs: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/build-common-hackers
<broonie> blueCommand: Consider what happens if someone builds the package twice in a row without using a chroot.
<jekil> geser: thanks
<blueCommand> Yeah, I thought of that
<blueCommand> I will see what I can do then
<leonel> hello  everyone !
<leonel> ScottK: do you need the debian/changelog  for squirrelmail  since dapper to gutsy ?  I don't really understand  what you need 
<blueCommand> broonie, if I don't run autogen, I get these annoying errors http://rafb.net/p/IeBxac87.html
<blueCommand> I suspect I need to remove or add something, but I have no idea of what
<Amaranth> blueCommand: run it as a patch
<blueCommand> Amaranth, run what?
<Amaranth> autogen
<blueCommand> Bear with me, I'm new at this. I'm guessing this would produce a patch what autogen does? How do I do that?
<broonie> blueCommand: Delete them in the clean target.
<Amaranth> you make a copy of the dir, run autogen in one, and diff the two dirs
<blueCommand> The clean target doesn't have them
<blueCommand> Oh it has
<blueCommand> Since it needs to have
<broonie> Amaranth: But note that that has gotchas with timestamp issues.
<blueCommand> I get "could not find" errors if I doesn't have
<broonie> rm -r
<broonie> -f even
<blueCommand> Start over? :)
<broonie> No. rm -f doesn't error if the file isn't present.
<blueCommand> Oh no not that
<blueCommand> You see, those files are needed, that's why they are there :)
<blueCommand> If I remove them, I _have_ to run autogen
<blueCommand> Otherwise configure is going harikari
* broonie thought that was the goal, sorry.
<blueCommand> The goal is to make autogen unnessecary :\
* broonie completely misunderstood
<blueCommand> broonie, Thanks anyway :)
<blueCommand> But this makes me really irritated none the less
<blueCommand> Can I make it update the diff or something?
<blueCommand> http://rafb.net/p/IeBxac87.html looks like it simply can't find that there is supposed to be a symlink
<broonie> Copying the real file in place of the symlink should make diff happy.
<blueCommand> then I will do that, brb
<blueCommand> Seems to be working
<broonie> Note that there can be problems when unpacking the diff since you can end up with timestamps that tell auto* it needs to rebuild some of the generated files. In practice this mostly only happens on slow architectures that Ubuntu doesn't support.
<blueCommand> Hm
<blueCommand> dpkg-source: warning: executable mode 0755 of 'configure' will not be represented in diff
<blueCommand> That _WILL_ make a hassle
<broonie> chmod before running it or just invoke it with sh explicitly.
<blueCommand> That sounded like that is an everyday hack :)
<broonie> I've done this before - and decided that I much prefer running auto* during the build. :P
<blueCommand> :O
<blueCommand> I wanted to do that too :) And you told me not to! (Well, you made me do this!! :D)
<blueCommand> Hm
<blueCommand>  configure-generated-file-in-source config.log, I don't have a config.log
<elektranox> can somebody please review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6021 ?
<blueCommand> Are there any extra steps required to make it copy files fromdebian/tmp needed than $(MAKE) DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp install? Becaue I notice that there is a folder named debian/package too. My debs only contain the files from debian/package :(
<blueCommand> ah, dh_install was commented
<blueCommand> If I have a REVU package that got turned down due to missing dependencies, do I need to resubmit it, or just poke somebody?
<gnomefreak> blueCommand: resubmit it
<blueCommand> Ok
<gnomefreak> it will overwrite the existing one
<blueCommand> bad-distribution-in-changes-file gutsy
<blueCommand> Isn't gutsy the right tag?
<blueCommand> Anybody with REVU access that can see what happend with winekeyd and libsocket++ ?
<blueCommand> Not seeing them in revu
<ajmitch> blueCommand: when were they uploaded?
<blueCommand> 15 min ago or so
<ajmitch> are you sure they went to the right host?
<blueCommand> hm, did like last time, but I will check
<blueCommand> [revu] 
<blueCommand> fqdn = revu.tauware.de
<blueCommand> incoming = /incoming
<blueCommand> login = anonymous
<ajmitch> don't count on 'revu' being default
<blueCommand> I did dput revu *.changes
* ajmitch can see that they're not there, and unless they were manually removed in the last 15 minutes, they never got there
<blueCommand> Hm
<blueCommand> Now I can resubmit them
<ajmitch> ah no
<blueCommand> I couldn't back then
<ajmitch> they were removed by a cron job
<ajmitch> the mail just took its time to get here
<blueCommand> Hehe, ok :)
<blueCommand> Reason?
<ajmitch> please make sure you upload source-only packages
<blueCommand> i.e no debs?
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> never upload an i386.changes file, there's a cron job that will just kill those
<blueCommand> gotcha, you will probably have one other "binary" package soon though, since I did a re-submit :)
<ajmitch> removed it
<blueCommand> there we go
<elektranox> still nobody who would review my package?
<blueCommand> You need to be a "reviewer" for that right?
<blueCommand> Otherwise I would gladly do it
<ScottK> blueCommand: If you know enough about packaging, feel free to offer unofficial suggestions.  Just make clear you are not a MOTU when you do it.
<blueCommand> ScottK, Ah what the hell, there is no better way to learn than by doing, right? :)
<ScottK> Just don't over-reach.  If you aren't sure, let them know and don't lead them in the wrong direction.
<blueCommand> ScottK, Nono, I will just try to review it. Don't worry :)
<elektranox> ok this way the final reviewers have less work :)
<elektranox> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6021
<blueCommand> elektranox, already building :)
<blueCommand> Oh right. If somebody could review:
<blueCommand> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6023
<blueCommand> and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=6024
<blueCommand> elektranox, You're looking fine so far, atleast through this reviewing guide ;-D
<elektranox> :)
<xtknight> so if i wanted to make an app for Gutsy, this would be the right channel to be in?
<Burgundavia_> xtknight: sort of
<xtknight> i was thinking of implenting an idea in the IdeaPool 
<Burgundavia_> xtknight: which one?
<xtknight> Burgundavia_, a hardware advisor that lets you know if your hardware is supported on ubuntu.  it would be a C/C++ windows program that could run on 2000/xp/vista
<Burgundavia_> ah
<blueCommand> elektranox, Did you change the orig?
<Burgundavia_> that would be an interesting challenge
<blueCommand> elektranox, I get diffrent MD5sums from the SF.net one and yours
<ScottK> But this probably isn't the place to get Windows programming help.
<xtknight> actually if you just grab the pci ids from windows and then compare them against the ubuntu pciids youve basiccally got it
<xtknight> ah no im good with the win32 api
<Burgundavia_> another way you could do it would be to build it into the installer
<elektranox> mh I'm not sure - I think I'll just download the SF.net ones
<xtknight> i'd actually rather it be separate (i bet they would too)
<xtknight> maybe it could be on the autorun.exe for the ubuntu cd
<Burgundavia_> xtknight: for that kind of stuff, I recommend you chat with colin watson or evan dandrea
<blueCommand> elektranox, I will see if I can get a diff
<Burgundavia_> xtknight: they are cjwatson and evand on irc
<xtknight> so you stick in the ubuntu cd in windows and it brings it up, but it doesnt interfere with install or anytihng
<xtknight> Burgundavia_, okay thanks
<xtknight> ill prolly have to do this later, just wanted to check 
<Burgundavia_> xtknight: another good way is to start the spec process
<Burgundavia_> xtknight: are you familiar with that?
<xtknight> Burgundavia_, not too much but i know about launchpad
<Burgundavia_> basically, the idea behind a spec is to lay out exactly what you are going to do
<xtknight> kinda confused what the difference is between a spec, a blueprint, and the other things they have there
<Burgundavia_> blueprint == spec
<Burgundavia_> but first chat with them, see what works best
<xtknight> cool thx
<Burgundavia_> I know there is a talk of a windows installer as well
<Burgundavia_> but no real work yet
<xtknight> figured since im not very adept with linux api i'd put my win32 api skills to work
<blueCommand> ScottK, Do you know if renaming the directory "gafix-0.9.1" to "gafix-0.9.1.orig" is valid?
<xtknight> and this is the perfect opportunity really
<xtknight> help ubuntu by using win32api, couldnt get any better ;)
<xtknight> anyhoo be back in a bit
<Burgundavia_> ok
<Burgundavia_> tag me if you have any questions
#ubuntu-motu 2008-07-07
<nxvl> RainCT: http://augeas.net/tour.html
<RainCT> uhm.. curious syntax :)
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> you can also use "ls" to browse the tree
<RainCT> actually.. it's quite cool
<nxvl> s/quite/really/g
<RainCT> :)
<nxvl> i love ir
<nxvl> it*
<TheMuso> RainCT: Nice to know someone is willing to try and find i18n bugs.
 * nxvl lows his head
<RainCT> nxvl: You've a comment, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=2723
<RainCT> TheMuso: :)
 * nxvl gives RainCT a hard HUG!!!
<nxvl> RainCT: thank you!
<RainCT> nxvl: no, thank *you* ;)
 * RainCT hugs nxvl back
 * nxvl blogs
<RainCT> raphink: I guess your advocation for augeas (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=2723) is still valid?
<nxvl> RainCT: what the procedure now? you will upload it? i need to ping someone else? i need to something else?
<nxvl> RainCT: where can i keep track of the aproval by the archive admins
<RainCT> raphink: either raphink needs to confirm that his advocation is still valid and then one of us can upload it, or you can search someone else to advocate it
<RainCT> *eh, nxvl
<RainCT> nxvl: and about the NEW queue, it's somewhere in Launchpad but I don't know the URL
<nxvl> i will send raphink an e-mail and compy it to you
<Grackle> So... Realtek released a GPL'd driver for their RTL8187SE device (a miniPCI wireless device). It required some modification to compile, but it now works in Ubuntu Hardy. I'd like to get it into the repositories now. Is that possible?
<nxvl> RainCT: send it
<Grackle> I've never submitted a package before.
<RAOF> Grackle: It's unlikely to make it into (base) Hardy, given that Hardy's been released.  However, you could get it into Intrepid and then request a backport.
<RAOF> Grackle: You're probably looking for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages to start with.
<Grackle> Okay, thanks.
<TheMuso> I'd also suggest getting the driver into the intrepid kernel directly.
<Grackle> Yeah.. I don't know how to do that. I have a driver. It compiles and works. I've never done any ubuntu development before, so getting into that process is difficult. I've read through a lot of stuff on the wiki and I watched the Daniel Holbach's ubuntudevel videos on youtube, but I haven't really gotten started.
<Grackle> s/is difficult/is the difficult part
<RAOF> Grackle: Joining #ubuntu-kernel may be worthwhile; the kernel is a bit special :)
<slayton> how do you setup a deb so then when installed it adds itself to the Application Menu
<Grackle> Alright, I'll do that.
<RAOF> A good default option is to file a bug against $PACKAGE (in this case, the linux-source package) with a pointer to the patch/driver.
<Grackle> ok
<RainCT> slayton: installing a .desktop file
<slayton> .desktop file?
<RainCT> slayton: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/DesktopFiles  http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/   http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
<slayton> thanks
<RainCT> yw
<Grackle> What do I do if the package is not in launchpad?
<RainCT> Grackle: what package is it?
<Grackle> Ohhh, lovely. I think I just broke something.
<Grackle> linux-source-2.6.24
<Grackle> Hmm, weird.
<Grackle> I got a 404 error when I tried to install that package, then I couldn't apt-get update due to a lockfile that had not been removed
 * Grackle deleted it and everything is at least pretending to work
<directhex> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta
<RainCT> Grackle: you've to look for the source package in Launchpad, which in this case is "linux". One way to get it is checking on http://packages.ubuntu.com
<Grackle> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search?text=linux-source-2.6.24 I was trying to search for it there
<Grackle> I'll try your link
<RainCT> directhex: is it linux or linux-meta?
<directhex> hm, you're right
<Grackle> Oh, by the way, I tried to publish my gpg key to the ubuntu keyserver so I could add it to my launchpad account, but it can't find it. :/
<Grackle> Looks like linux-386 is the one I want.
<RainCT> good night
<slangasek> ScottK: I don't see mercurial in hardy-backports/new now; I guess someone else got to it?
<ScottK> slangasek: Looks like.  Thanks for checking.
<Festor> raphink, ajmitch, siretart, when re-sync the REVU uploaders keyring?
<ion_> Could someone please nuke both http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=compcache and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=compcache-debian? Thanks.
<persia> Festor: It mostly gets done on request.  I'll resync now.
<persia> ion_: why?
<ion_> I wrote that in their comments.
<Festor> persia, I have a strange problem. I upload packages to REVU but the system does not identify my account
<persia> Festor: What do you mean?
<Festor> wait a moment
<ion_> Iâll reupload a new compcache after some changes, and it will be much different than what i uploaded as compcache earlier. Not based on any upstream tarball. It might be confusing if there are debdiffs that mostly just remove an entire upstream project.
<Festor> I think I found the solution
<persia> ion_: I suppose that makes sense.
<ion_> And after a discussion, it became apparent that compcache-debian should just be called compcache, so iâll upload a new version of what i uploaded as compcache-debian. as compcache.
<Festor> I can change my Revu password?
<ion_> persia: Thanks!
<persia> ion_: Please don't upload stuff whilst I'm trying to nuke it :)
<persia> Festor: Not easily.  Why do you wish to?
<ion_> persia: I did the upload after i noticed both compcache and compcache-debian had disappeared. Sorry if i did that too early.
<persia> ion_: For something to be nuked, it must first be archived.  If something is uploaded after archiving, it restores it.
<Festor> Unless the process is not easy no matter
<ion_> Ok, sorry. Additionally, i thought uploads would be processed the next time in 6 minutes anyway.
<persia> ion_: Perhaps.  Anyway, everything all gone now (I think).
<ion_> Thanks. Ok to upload now?
<persia> Indeed.
<ion_> Apparently the files are already on the server. I guess it will just get processed in five minutes.
<persia> Festor: The keyring sync just completed, but I'm guessing you are encountering something else.  Could you restate your problem?
<ion_> persia: Btw, i bet spammers love all the email addresses on REVU main page, and even more on http://revu.tauware.de/uploaders.list :-)
<Festor> now I have no problem
<persia> ion_: Possibly.  Note that every email address in either of those lists is already mirrored on heaps of public keyservers, so it's not like a first exposure or anything.
<ion_> Good point
<Festor> 	
<Festor> One question, when the package to upload revue, I have to wait for the review?
<Festor> I uploaded http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-transparent
<Festor> and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-desktop-integration
<Festor> all plugins for amsn
<persia> Festor: The guideline is that you may advertise your package here once per day.  Note that time-zones differ, so it's safest to wait at least 25 hours before each advertisement.
<Festor> ook
<Festor> and if I see a package that need work I can fix that package?
<ion_> Alright, http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=compcache should now be in accordance with the compcache spec.
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hello dholbach
<Festor> persia, if I see a package that need work I can fix that package?
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
<persia> Festor: A package in the repositories, or one on REVU?
<Festor> on REVU
<tuxmaniac> dholbach: hi
<persia> Festor: It's considered polite to contact the uploader and collaborate on the package.
<Festor> ahh, ok, thanks! :D
<dholbach> hi tuxmaniac
<tuxmaniac> dholbach: may I pm?
<dholbach> sure
<RAOF> ion_: The very briefest of reviews starts with "do you _really_ want the version to be '0ubuntu1'"?
<ion_> raof: Iâm going to try to get that to debian as â1â.
<RAOF> _Really_ cdbs? :)
<persia> RAOF: Are preaching dh7 again?
<RAOF> No.
<persia> s/e p/e you p/
<ion_> Doesnât get much prettier than http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/compcache-0807070650/compcache-0ubuntu1/debian/rules IMO :-)
<RAOF> But dh5 would quite possibly be clearer.
<persia> ion_: Why install -D?  If you're going to use CDBS, you may as well try to get everything in dh_install
<ion_> persia: To my knowledge, it doesnât handle either changing filesâ modes or renaming them. compcache-script needs to be chmoded 755 (dh_fixperms doesnât handle that because of the directory) and initramfs-hook needs to be saved as .../hooks/compcache.
<RAOF> The package long description could be a little more descriptive :)
<ion_> raof: Thanks, iâll look into that.
<RAOF> I _think_ compcache-script violates policy (I don't believe that /bin/sh is expected to support "local foo=bar").
<ion_> Ok. I assumed âif dash thinks itâs ok, itâs okâ, but i guess not.
<RAOF> I've fallen into that trap, too :)
<ion_> Works in whatever sh OpenBSD has, too.
<RAOF> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s-scripts
<ion_> Thanks, had just opened that.
<RAOF> So, everything supports your use of local, but it's not quite required by policy :).
<ion_> Wait. Doesnât it say scripts may assume sh supports local?
<RAOF> Yes.  But "may or may not support arguments more complex than simple variables".  So 'local foo; foo = bar' is OK, but 'local foo=bar' is not.
<ion_> Ah. Iâll change that then.
<RAOF> This is the sort of hair-splitting that's not terribly necessary; I don't believe that what you've done will break anything, even though a strict reading of policy allows /bin/sh to not support it.
<RAOF> For those not also idling in #debian-devel: http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=4980 .  Heh.
<ubottu> sourceware.org bug 4980 in libc "gethostbyname() etc break for /etc/hosts with both ::1 and 127.0.0.1 localhost entries" [Normal,Reopened]
 * RAOF is startled.
<ajmitch> RAOF: rather amusing, isn't it?
<RAOF> ajmitch: Seen comment 17?
 * ajmitch tries to imagine any canonical developer responding in that fashion
<ajmitch> yep
<RAOF> It does boggle the mind, yes.
<RAOF> ion_: Is debconf-updatepo _really_ meant to be called in the clean target?
<RAOF> It's entirely possible that it is, but it seems quite strange to do that.
<ion_> raof: po-debconf(7): The debconf-updatepo program is idempotent, it modifies PO files only if their content has been updated.  Thus the best solution to provide up-to-date PO files in your source package is to call this command from the "clean" target of the debian/rules file.
<RAOF> ion_: Thanks.  I'm (obviously) not familiar with po-debconf, or really debconf at all.
<ion_> I uploaded a version with the âlocalâ thing fixed, but i didnât fix the long description yet. The upload should be handled in a minute, i think.
<ion_> Comment #17 :-D
<RAOF> Yes. :)
<ion_> http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=2726&upid2=2727
<RAOF> ion_: Is there any benchmarks of this you've seen in your travels?  How much of a win, and in what situations is it a win?
<siretart> ion_: openbsd has ksh
<ion_> raof: Sorry, i didnât understand. Do you mean the debconf-updatepo thing, or?
<RAOF> ion_: Of compcache.
<RAOF> ion_: debconf-updatepo is fairly obviously not performance-critical :)
<ion_> raof: http://code.google.com/p/compcache/wiki/LTSPPerfSummary http://code.google.com/p/compcache/wiki/LTSPPerf
<ion_> Also, the Ubuntu spec: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/compcache
<RAOF> Hm.  Cool.
<Hobbsee> persia: twitch
<Hobbsee> persia: blink.  and dholbach just went and ack'd it, too.
<persia> Hobbsee: The bugs were valid, despite the source, no?
<Hobbsee> persia: i doubt it.
<Hobbsee> persia: there's two debian revisions for the first one, and only one change mentioend.
<Hobbsee> there's a person who has commented on the bug, saying it's wrong
<persia> Hrm.  Grumble.
<Hobbsee> persia: and he's incorrect in the second bug anyway.
<Hobbsee> persia: there rae two changes, and the second is a maintainer change.
<Hobbsee> he's correct that it can be synced, but is completely incorrect in the other points.
<persia> Hobbsee: After review, I still say these are valid bugs: on the other hand, I don't believe they in any way contribute to "A solid indication of changes in the work style".
<Hobbsee> it looks like the first one is correct, if, in fact, the debian change does fix the ubuntu issue.
<Hobbsee> persia: i'm more pointing out that if anyone else wrote those sort of justifications for bugs, which are demonstrably incorrect, even though teh final conclusion is right, they'd get spoken to, and wouldn't get an immediate ack.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I did not give it an immediate ACK
<persia> Hobbsee: I agree with that.  As I said, the *bugs* are valid.  I think it would benefit from updated descriptions with the ACK.
<Hobbsee> persia: so, either, a) kmos is getting it easy, or b) daniel isn't watching to see if changes are correct - or if he is, isn't ensuring that all the parts of the person's statements are correct, which is still probably important.
<dholbach> granted, the first thing I did was triage the sponsoring queue instead of first checking whose bug it is
<persia> Hobbsee: Also, the discussion with most people would be of the nature of "Well, this isn't quite correct: please fix it".  In this case, it's really "Don't do that".
<Hobbsee> persia: oh, sure.  but in the normal case it would be "Well, this isn't quite correct: please fix it" as you say, rather than "yes, this is correct"
<persia> dholbach: Hobbsee's point stands that the descriptions are in fact completely incorrect: they oughtn't be ACK'd without an update.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: and a one word "ACK" with no other comment was what I was classifying as an immediate ack.
<dholbach> I'll update them after I walked the dog
<dholbach> but I'm not making it easy for anybody
<Hobbsee> persia: in the case of those bugs, there is *no* indication at all that any parts of the bugs are incorrect.  presumably, this is not a good thing, as other contributors are looking at sync requests from others, checking that they themselves are doing the right thing.
<persia> Hobbsee: I see your point.  I expect this will be addressed after the abovementioned dog walking is complete.
<Hobbsee> persia: which is a dangerous culture change, imo.
<Hobbsee> (for anyone to be filing bugs like that, not just the aforementioned one)
 * RAOF wonders what this discussion is about.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: what do you mean by culture change?
<persia> Hobbsee: Which is the dangerous change?  Not correcting the bug when ACK'ing, or waiting for it to be corrected?
<dholbach> I updated bug 245706
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 245706 in hnb "Please sync hnb 1.9.18-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/245706
<Hobbsee> persia: having bugs with incorrect comments, but with correct end results that get an ack, and are very likely to not be gone back and changed.  If the people can get away with it once, then they're more likely to do it repeatedly.
<Hobbsee> ubuntu development is still very quick that expecting people to go and update their bugs, post ack, is unlikely to happen
<persia> Hobbsee: In the general case, I agree with you.  In this specific case, I believe Daniel is currently updating the bugs, and willing to wait a few minutes.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I'm sorry if I didn't check closely enough and overlooked things, but I'll repeat again: I'm not making it easier for anybody
<dholbach> it's not a culture change, but rather lack of coffee
<Hobbsee> persia: true.  i'm only discussing the general case here, because the particulars of this case should be solved by other means (the previous MC decisions should be enforced here)
 * dholbach now goes walking the dog
<nxvl> dholbach: hi
<nxvl> dholbach: did you got my mail?
<dholbach> nxvl: the one about Pisco? :)
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> yes, also
<nxvl> but no
<nxvl> the other one
<nxvl> the one about the video
<\sh> uh I just read kmos again
<dholbach> nxvl: ah yeah - got that one, but didn't get to reply to it yet :)
<nxvl> isn't he like banned or something?
<nxvl> dholbach: i have already the getting started one
<\sh> nxvl: na i read it in "third person mode"
<Hobbsee> nxvl: yeah, but he's still filing sync requests anyway.
<nxvl> dholbach: i just need to mix it
<nxvl> \sh: heh, ok
<nxvl> Hobbsee: does he?
<Hobbsee> nxvl: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-July/001266.html
<dholbach> nxvl: woah - great
<dholbach> nxvl: good work! :-))))
<nxvl> Hobbsee: with a little of self love i would go far far away from ubuntu development on his shoes
<Hobbsee> nxvl: what do you mean?
<bliZZardz> guys, can someone enlighten me on what happened and why marco was banned?
<nxvl> Hobbsee: that if i were kmos, and after everything every one told him i wouldn't be involved (or near) in the development of ubuntu
<bliZZardz> kmos = marco?
<persia> bliZZardz: Briefly, he filed lots of sync requests that were not well researched, and did not respond well to requests to stop.  Over time, this escalated to the current situation.
<Hobbsee> nxvl: ah, yes
<Hobbsee> bliZZardz: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-December/000574.html and beyond (motu list also has some info)
<bliZZardz> persia : "did not respond well to requests to stop" --> that is dangerous!!!
<nxvl> bliZZardz: also norsetto and dholbach spend a lot of time with him trying to make things better, but he didn't respond
<nxvl> dholbach: what did you use to edit the videos and make only one?
<Hobbsee> personally, i most liked the removal requests for packages that weren't in the archive.  i thought that really took the cake.
<nxvl> dholbach: because i have the video of me talkin and the screencast and i need to make one video mixed, but i don't find an apropiate tool
<dholbach> nxvl: it was Tony Whitmore and Alan Pope who did that - I don't know what they used
<dholbach> nxvl: does the Screecast wiki talk about this?
<nxvl> dholbach: nope
<bliZZardz> what really really amuses me is that i find #ubuntu-XXX channels to be the most helpful and the people are so damn great - i didnt ever imagine that such situations would arise. It has been like utopia for me here
<nxvl> dholbach: just about mixing video with audio
<nxvl> dholbach: i will ping popey
<nxvl> popey: ping
<nxvl> :D
<Hobbsee> bliZZardz: those cases are relatively rare.
<nxvl> dholbach: because it will need a spanish speaker to mix them
<RAOF> I personally can't remember one other than Kmos, but I've got a rubbish memory.
<bliZZardz> Hobbsee : yea , can see it. am sure this place rocks :)
<Hobbsee> RAOF: i don't think there has been - although, there's been some other disturbing stuff over the weekend.
<bliZZardz> Hobbsee : disturbing stuf??? like??
<Hobbsee> but not on the same level as him.
<persia> I'd like to note that even in the case of Kmos, there were many months of helpful guidance before it became an issue.
<gaspa> hi all.
<Hobbsee> bliZZardz: a core developer who appears to be unaware of where to find information on, and how to file, basic MOTU/core dev tasks such as sync requests.
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> what persia says is really true
<bliZZardz> the #ubuntu-bugs becomes exceptionally silent on weekends - and it scare me sometimes when i am triaging full throttle and there is no one to answer my Qs -- hope i dont face the same fate as marco ;)
<Hobbsee> bliZZardz: you actually listen to what you're told.
<geser> dholbach: I've read the discussion about bug 245706. The Debian maintainer has also commented on it that a sync is ok. How to proceed now? Do you want to wait on a comment from Kmos?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 245706 in hnb "Please sync hnb 1.9.18-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/245706
<nxvl> there was people (as i said before) working with him on 1 on 1 basis for making things work
<persia> bliZZardz: As long as you're engaged, it's exceedingly unlikely.
<nxvl> but he didn't respond
<dholbach> geser: I just asked for some Ubuntu testing
<Hobbsee> bliZZardz: if you're paranoid, have a look at the sponsor feedback (see december archives for that list), and see if you do the same :)
<dholbach> geser: and I thanked Carsten
<nxvl> raphink: around?
 * bliZZardz gets back to work.. wishes others a fine monday :)
<dholbach> bliZZardz: and the same to you! :)
<bliZZardz> Hobbsee : lol ..dont scare me now :P
<Hobbsee> bliZZardz: no, it's supposed to make you not scared :P
<ion_> raof: I changed the description: http://gitweb.heh.fi/?p=ion/ubuntu/compcache.git;f=debian/control;hb=HEAD
<RAOF> heh is a great dns component.
<bliZZardz> Hobbsee : quick comment - dont find any dec archives (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-dct/)
<raphink> hi nxvl
<persia> bliZZardz: That'd be the Debian Collaboration Team archives.
<RAOF> ion_: Much better.
<nxvl> raphink: i have got the 2nd ACK on augeas, but we were un sure if yours is still valid
<raphink> nxvl: can we talk in 2 hours?
<bliZZardz> persia : then? isnt that teh same link?
<raphink> I'm busy ;)
<RAOF> ion_: I think that's pretty much ready to go, then.
<nxvl> raphink: well i'm going to sleep in a minute, but i send you an email
<raphink> ok
<raphink> sure
<raphink> good night
<ion_> raof: Cool
<nxvl> raphink: the only thing i need is, that your ack is still valid please sponsor the package
<raphink> ok
<nxvl> s/your/if your/g
<ion_> REVU noticed the upload (with the new description) a minute ago.
<nxvl> raphink: or just make rainct know that is still valid
<nxvl> raphink: or if not, make me know about it to found one more ack
<nxvl> :D
<persia> bliZZardz: Yes, but you likely want to look at the motu-council archives
<slytherin> Hi, I have a question about motu contributors team. What is the advantage of being member of this team over someone who is simply working on his own to fix packaging issues and adding them to sponsors queue.
<bliZZardz> persia : ok thanks..will look at it later. have to rush back to work now...
<RAOF> slytherin: You get a shiny new icon on your LP page.
<RAOF> slytherin: Oh, and an @ubuntu.com address.  But that's about it.
<nxvl> dholbach: aren't you in turkey?
<persia> Well, you can also carry an Ubuntu business card, and get an Ubuntu IRC cloak.
<dholbach> nxvl: nah, in Berlin :)
<ion_> Also free beer for life from Canonical.
<ion_> Just kidding. ;-)
<nxvl> dholbach: you didn't go to GUADEC?
<dholbach> nxvl: nope
<\sh> persia: I wonder what is an ubuntu business card?
<nxvl> dholbach: i thought you were going to be there
<nxvl> \sh: just a bussiness card that says ubuntu
<dholbach> nxvl: I'll leave for holidays in a week though :)
<\sh> nxvl: you mean I'm allowed to print the ubuntu logo on the card?
<RAOF> ion_: The trick is to _find_ that beer.  I had to do down to the subbasement.  It was in an decommissioned lavatory, with a sign saying "beware of the lepoard".
<nxvl> \sh: yep
<ion_> raof: :-D
<nxvl> \sh: if you are an ubuntu member
<slytherin> why does that team exist then? does it guarantee faster processing of requests in queue if you are a member?
<ion_> raof: Did you have to look the wording up? :-)
<persia> \sh: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BusinessCards
<nxvl> dholbach: to turkey? or just to the beach
<RAOF> ion_: Hell, no.  Also, that's a paraphrase anyway.  I can't do the interragatory style on my own :)
<ion_> Heh
<dholbach> nxvl: http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=125
<RAOF> slytherin: When that team was created, people were concerned about exactly this problem :)
<dholbach> nxvl: no beach this time :)
<RAOF> slytherin: It doesn't really _do_ anything.  It's not a necessary step on the path to MOTU, you don't get extra LP privelages, and you don't get better sposorship.
<slytherin> RAOF: Ok. You answered my second question without me asking it.
<slytherin> RAOF: That is "it is necessary step on path to MOTU".
<RAOF> slytherin: "Is it a necessary step on the way to MOTU-hood?" :)
<RAOF> Heh.
<nxvl> dholbach: oh yes! i saw it some weeks ago
<nxvl> dholbach: funny picture btw
<persia> slytherin: That team exists as the mechanism by which MOTU Council may grant Ubuntu Membership.  The Community Council made the determination that this ought be a separate team.
<geser> Laney: re your ffmpeg->ffmpeg-free rebuilds: do you plan to provided debdiffs for the rebuilds?
<RAOF> Basically, it's meant to be a reward.  A badge to commemorate your many MOTU contributions.
<dholbach> nxvl: it's the best that I could do with GIMP :)
<slytherin> RAOF: persia: Thanks for information. I guess I will apply for the membership before month end.
<nxvl> dholbach: yes, we are developers, not graphic designers
<dholbach> hehehe :)
<geser> Laney: what is exactly the reason for the rebuilds? because I fixed a FTBFS in moc recently and wonder why it needs a rebuild now.
<Hobbsee> bliZZardz: because you're looking at the wrong team - you want https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-December/
<mouz> dholbach: On https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/DesktopFiles it says 'Verify that the package is not listed below as not needing a .desktop file'. But I can not find such a list. Would you know where I can find it?
<dholbach> #
<dholbach> #
<dholbach> When looking for a program that needs a .desktop file, please consider using the following: [WWW] http://people.ubuntuwire.com/~persia/find-missing-desktop
<dholbach> unfortunately that link is down it seems
<persia> Yeah :(  Probably best to comment out for now.  I hear that it might work again later in this month, but haven't been told any definite date.
<dholbach> mouz: sorry if the answer does not help you very much - I didn't write the article myself but integerated it into the Packaging Guide, so it might not be very helpfule :-/
<persia> Alternately, we could put it back as an attachment to the wiki page...
<nxvl> persia: btw, is imbrandon still alive?
<persia> nxvl: Yes.
<nxvl> persia: but he isn't involved on the community anymore, is he?
<persia> mouz: There isn't really a list of packages determined not to need .desktop files any more.  There was one in the wiki, and you might be able to find it by digging history, but it wasn't being kept up to date.
<persia> mouz: The short list is: Window Managers, programs that don't have sensible defaults, programs that only act on files, rather than having a standard interface, and programs with no GUI.
<nxvl> mouz: best is to check if the package ships with one or not using less on the .deb file
<nxvl> mouz: and take in account what persia just pointed
<nxvl> btw, i don't know why mutt has a .desktop file
<nxvl> or use to have
<persia> mutt has a .desktop file?!?  That's rather surprising.
<mouz> I'm packaging stjerm which is not yet on the archives. It starts up invisible. Therefore if a user clicks a menu item, nothing seems to happen. So I'm thinking to not include a .desktop file. Can I do so?
<persia> mouz: Starting up invisible is exactly the sort of behaviour which indicates something oughn't have a .desktop file.
<nxvl> persia: at least it use to have one
<mouz> persia: good :) Also I would like to know whether I can use README.Debian to document the fact. I searched but could not find whether that is the way to do it.
<nxvl> persia: i remember seeing it before
<persia> mouz: Unless upstream ships a .desktop file, and you're explicitly not using it, I'd not bother with the documentation.  README.Debian should explain anything that is interestingly different from upstream in the installed binary package: source changes typically don't belong there, rather reserved for README.Debian-source
<mouz> ah yes. persia, dholbach, nxvl: thanks a lot
<Iulian> Good morning.
<nxvl> now need to sleep
<nxvl> i need to learn how to use mutt, but i will be tomorrow
<nxvl> see you all
<nxvl> have a nice day!
<nxvl> raphink: please don't forget to take a look at augeas when you have time
<nxvl> raphink: thank you very much for it!
<popey> nxvl: pong#
<nxvl> popey: i have already send you and e-mail (as well as daniel)
<nxvl> popey: can you please review it
<popey> ok
<bliZZardz> dholbach_ , dholback : can you plz share the link which shows the bug stats?
<RAOF> Gah.  Checking the mono library API sucks when the previous package never built in intrepid.
<huats> TheMuso: are you around ?
<stgraber> I had a quick look at the init.d script and didn't see anything that would make it do nothing (like looking for a conf file, .pid file, ...)
<stgraber> oops
<dholbach> bliZZardz: you mean http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/ ?
<bliZZardz> dholbach : yea - same one. But it looks like some problem there. What does the count indicate?
<hefe_bia> Hi! I am looking at bug 114565. An udev rule is needed that is not tied to a particular package - where should it go? It's own package?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 114565 in module-init-tools "native Garmin-USB no longer working" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/114565
<persia> hefe_bia: It's probably better to tune the rules in module-init-tools than try to have a floating rule.
<hefe_bia> ah, ok. Thanks!
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<bliZZardz> hello
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi sistpoty|work
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<nedko> is it good idea to have debian subdir in upstream?
<broonie> nedko: No.
<broonie> (apart from anything else, it causes hassle if you have to delete a file they've added
<slytherin> nedko: It is ok to have it in upstream svn but the source tar distribution should not contain it.
<nedko> thanks
<nedko> i plan to create/update some linux audio (jack) related packages
<jpds> RainCT: Yeah, it's right. But I had gone to bed when you sent the message :)
<hefe_bia_> Hi! What to do if upstream includes binaries of another GPL licensed program in the tarball? (but without any license stating that they do so)
<wgrant> hefe_bia_: You tell them to stop it.
<lukehasnoname_> What does triage mean, in the "bug treatment" sense?
<broonie> lukehasnoname_: Initial checking, prioritisation and classification. It's from the medical term http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage
<lukehasnoname_> Right, I know what it means IRL. But I don't get how it's used in bug terms. If something is triaged with classification "critical", then it wouldn't be triaged anymore, would it? It would be "Confirmed"
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
<nedko> is artfwo comming here?
<nxvl> raphink: around?
<raphink> yes,
<nxvl> raphink: about augeas, is your ack still valid?
<raphink> it's still valid as far as I'm concerned
<nxvl> RainCT: around?
<nxvl> RainCT: great!
<RainCT> nxvl: yes
<nxvl> raphink: great
<nxvl> RainCT: raphink sais his ack is still valid
<nxvl> RainCT: can you please sponsor the package
<RainCT> nxvl: Great :)
<RainCT> raphink, can you upload it, please? I've to go in a while and would like to finish something else first
<raphink> nxvl: in a near future, it might be interesting to provide additional plugins
<raphink> nxvl: since augeas is made by a fedora dev, it could be nice to have plugins for Debian specific conffiles
<raphink> I can upload it RainCT
<RainCT> raphink: ok, thanks
<nxvl> raphink: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCentralizedServiceAdministrator/Augeas
<raphink> hmmm our network team closed some streams without telling us
<raphink> I have to ask for the ftp to be open to the Internet again :s
<raphink> shouldn't be long though
<raphink> nxvl: done
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Congratulations.
<nxvl> raphink: thanks
<nxvl> RainCT: thanks
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: thanks!
<raphink> is it your first package nxvl?
<nxvl> yep
<nxvl> well almost
<raphink> congrats :)
<nxvl> because on terminator upstream helped me a lot with debianization
<nxvl> so it doesn't count
<raphink> hehe ok
 * nxvl HUGS raphink and RainCT 
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Even with help, it still counts.
<raphink> thank you for your work, nxvl
<RainCT> nxvl: congratz :)
<raphink> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue?queue_state=0&queue_text=
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Particularly since this is not a simple package.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: i mean on terminator (the previous one) this one has been entirely by myself
<nxvl> and yes
<nxvl> augeas it not a simple package
<nxvl> not at all
<ScottK-laptop> Ah.  My mistake.
<nxvl> \o/
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Double congratulations then.
<nxvl> heh
<nxvl> thanks
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: You might consider asking for a backport to Hardy to support testing and experimentation once it's out of New.
<raphink> yes, that would be nice
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: i didn't thought about it, but it will be nice
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: i will
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: btw, i don't remember if i include you on my mail, but can you please review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCentralizedServiceAdministrator/Augeas and check if everything on the mail side is in there?
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: You did include me.
<nxvl> i knew i couldn't forget you
<nxvl> i'm just to sleepy now
<nxvl> i have just woke up
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: You ought to add amavisd-new, spamassassin, and clamav to your list.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: can you do it please
<ScottK-laptop> From a mail admin perspective those get configuration changes a lot more often than core things like Postfix.  Sure.
<raphink> a dput one could be nice, too
<raphink> :)
<raphink> if you can add it at the same time ScottK-laptop
<nxvl> raphink: yes, but that wouldn't be in a close future
<raphink> it's very easy to do nxvl
<raphink> that's why I'm mentionning it
<nxvl> raphink: i have some goals to reach for intrepid and i need to focus myself on them
<raphink> ok
<raphink> where can we contribute the lenses ?
<nxvl> raphink: launchpad?
<raphink> bugs?
<nxvl> i have a post with all that information
<nxvl> but my blog is down
<nxvl> raphink: yep
<ScottK-laptop> raphink: Sorry, already down.
<ScottK-laptop> down/done
<raphink> ok, np
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Do lenses get added to the augeas package or to the package they are for?
<nxvl> raphink: augeas is the first step for: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCentralizedServiceAdministrator
<nxvl> raphink: which i spec in the future will become ubuntu control center or something
 * raphink thinks of augeas as a brick to integrate in puppet
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: i will add them to augeas it self
<raphink> I don't really think of managing one single machine
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: i have made a binary package just for the lenses
<raphink> but that's nice nxvl
<raphink> for sure, using augeas would be great to improve the configuration API
<raphink> s/API/tools/
<nxvl> raphink: yes, the long term goal is to make manage more than one machine from a client over the network
<raphink> nxvl: do you have experience with configuration management tools like cfengine or puppet?
<nxvl> not that i remember (on the development front)
<nxvl> but as a sysadmin i have used some of them
<raphink> ok
<raphink> I see
<nxvl> also i developed one for specific requirements on samba
<nxvl> i needed to use almost same configurations over a LOT of samba servers
<nxvl> so i use some script that do it for me
<nxvl> changing some data from server to server, depending on the requirements
<nxvl> it was a nightmare
<nxvl> i'm out of battery and need to go work
<nxvl> see you all
<nxvl> and thanks!
<nxvl> bye!
<nxvl> have a nice day
<YokoZar> ScottK / ScottK-laptop: Thanks for the ack on the wine SRU.  I'm a bit confused about what happens next though, since there's already a Wine in hardy-backports.  Do we upload that same package to hardy-proposed, or one with an incremented version?
<ScottK> YokoZar: We ask pitti if he'll copy it from backports or if he wants it to go through proposed.
<DRebellion> Would somebody mind reviewing my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=monkeystudio Thanks ; )
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<geser> DRebellion: FTBFS for me on intrepid AMD64
<DRebellion> geser, hmm, i have only tested on intrepid i386
<DRebellion> which built fine
<DRebellion> geser, would you mind attatching the log to the bug page? I have to go out for a bit.
<null_vector> Who can I talk to about nvidia issues on intrepid?  I can file a bug now but all it will say is it doesn't work.  Nothing shows up in the X log.
<geser> DRebellion: can do
<DRebellion> geser, thanks
<geser> done
<geser> null_vector: have you read https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-July/025723.html?
<null_vector> no, I hadn't.  Thanks.
<hunmaat> hi.
<ScottK> Dear upstream: Please don't just write "Apply a selection of Debian upstream patches." in your changelog.  There are a bunch of them and it'd make my life easier if you'd say which ones they were ...
<sebner> ScottK: rofl O_o
<hunmaat> I've commented to a bug in hwtest, the ubuntu package. it's maintainers are the motu. there is a hwtest launchpad project. it has different bugs list. shouldn't these be linked somehow?
<hunmaat> or at least some information about this project on the package's overview page
<Festor> One question, I can import packages form GetDeb.net to revu? (I have the permission of GetDeb admin)
<ScottK> Festor: Sure, but they need to meet Ubuntu quality requirements.
<Festor> I working in that
<Festor> :D
<ScottK> By their own admission, getdeb has different standards.
 * sebner asks himself why these folks don't contribute to ubuntu that way
<ScottK> sebner: I've asked them to and they declined.  Feel free to try again.
<Festor> O.o
<joaopinto> I will not answer that one again :)
<ScottK> Festor: In general, if there is a demand for a package from outside the official repositories, we ought to try and get it in if we can.
<sebner> joaopinto: and for me? ^^
<joaopinto> sebner, to summarize because I have had too many conversations a long time ago.. different goals
<joaopinto> we had some merge efforts, I have started to work on a wiki page with dholbach, but then I got out of time and interest to get back to it
<sebner> joaopinto: well I know that you are some kind of "bleeding edge" but what speaks again to contribute to ubuntu and upload them to revu?
<Festor> Peace to all... :D
<joaopinto> sebner, the issue is not with the revu upload, someone would have to follow-up those revu uploads, I tried myself with 1 package, 2 years ago, I found it a painful process, not getting the proper (or at least expected) attention
<ScottK> joaopinto: Would you be willing to consider pointing your web site at .deb's from hardy-backports where they exist?
<joaopinto> anyway it seems Festor will be starting picking it up
<sebner> joaopinto: I see, yes attention is a problem. not interested to become a MOTU and help out there? ;)
<SWAT> is there a good intro to packaging with scons? (or a great example package).
<joaopinto> ScottK, there are a few limitations on using repositories for our distribution model, replacing with a repository is not an option yet...
<ScottK> joaopinto: I'd ask you to consider that then for the future.
<ScottK> I think it would be good to reduce duplication of effort.
<joaopinto> sebner, with all respect I have for the MOTUs, sometimes I found it too much political and uninteresting, and sometimes a few bad experiences don't help either
<joaopinto> ScottK, we will, we also have more requests than we can handle
<sebner> joaopinto: I see but double work is not good and btw it seems that you are a good at packaging so a loss for us
<joaopinto> and there is something about MOTUs which I really hate, mixing packaging with bug fixing :P
<azeem> how do you disentangle them?
<joaopinto> packaging is about integration, mostly integrating upstream into the distribution, a packager skills are mostly distro oriented
<azeem> so you think all bugfixing should happen upstream?
<joaopinto> bug fixing requires real application development skils, and it is much more efficient when executed by people familiar with the code from a global perspective
<broonie> You need both, especially when it comes to the release freeze phase.
<joaopinto> yes, mostly, except for any integration specific patches
<broonie> When freezing people from the distro side need to be able to assess the risks and effects of changes, especailly from upstreams with unrelated schedules.
<joaopinto> distros should still do the QA on those changes, but still the fixes should be handled upstream
<azeem> joaopinto: sure, except that it's not always practicable to do so
<joaopinto> sure, a balance is required between both, and right now I see too much being brought to the distro side
<broonie> Especially note that lots of upstreams explicitly don't care about anything except their current release (clamav ftw!)
<Laney> geser: Someone (forget who, sorry) said that it would be enough to just file the bugs
<Laney> Also, I filed bugs against all the packages that came up on the NBS list and built successfully - thought those would all be the ones that needed it
<Festor> One question, I can package a app with freeware license?
<Festor> for Revu of course
<Festor> I talk about mercury messenger
<slytherin> Festor: what do you mean by freeware license?
<Festor> ehh, freeware? I dont understand
<Festor> slytherin, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Messenger
<Festor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware
<Festor> I see that unrar is in Ubuntu repositories
<Festor> and that package has freeware license
<Festor> but...
<Festor> I dont know if I do something in special for make a package with freeware license
<Festor> I should indicate also in copyright file in other file?
<slytherin> Festor: is the source available?
<Festor> freeware =! source code available....
<Festor> but...
<Festor> http://thebachman.info/images/stories/Mercury/Versions/mercury-messenger-1.9.tgz
<Festor> Mercury messenger is written in Java
<slytherin> Festor: It could go in restricted, but you will have to talk with some other developers here. I am not sure how many will be interested in sponsoring a messenger with no source even though it is free to distribute.
<Festor> slytherin, http://thebachman.info/images/stories/Mercury/Versions/mercury-messenger-1.9.tgz
<Festor> and this?
<Festor> I dont know if this is "source code" I am not a expert in Java apps
<slytherin> Festor: I am sorry I can not verify right now if it is a souce. My bandwidth is all used up in some other work.
<Festor> ok, no problem
<AstralJava> I don't see any .java files inside the tarball.
<null_vector> Any reason why debuild would delete a manpage inside debian/ when building?  Starting to get annoying.
<azeem> null_vector: if you think debuild is to blame, try dpkg-buildpackage instead
<null_vector> no the debian/rules was specifically deleting the manpage for some reason
<Festor> When I upload a package for REVU, I should put Mantainer field as: "Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>"
<Festor> or I can use my name&e-mail?
<mouz> Festor: Maintainer should be as you say. XSBC-Original-Maintainer should hold the packager's name+email (which could be yours). See also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<Festor> ok, thanks
<simu> hi, after i install freebsd, what desktop environment do I have
<simu> can I chose between kde or gnome at the isntallation procedure'
<azeem> simu: Ubuntu does not support freebsd, AFAIK
<simu> shit wrong channel
<simu> m sorry
<AstralJava> Okay, I've got a problem. I worked out a working debian/ inside an unwrapped tarball, and managed to create a good *.dsc with debuild -S -sa, with which I could produce nice binary .debs with pbuilder. Once this process was executed, I initiated the same structure as a bzr branch, and uploaded to lp.net. Of course, now the same procedure won't work, debuild -S -sa doesn't run successfully.
<AstralJava> What is the correct procedure to maintain such a structure?
<azeem> I know nothing about bzr, but for those people who do, it will be crucial to quote the error you get with debuild now
<null_vector> did you "bzr add debian/" ?
<AstralJava> azeem: Silly me, of course. :) http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25755/
<AstralJava> null_vector: I forget that precisely, but if you browse the code inside lp.net, debian/ is there.
<Adri2000> AstralJava: what about bzr-builddeb?
<james_w> AstralJava: you want to add "-i" to the debuild command
<james_w> it excludes .bzr etc. from the package, and so you don't get those problems, as well as not including stuff in the source package that doesn't really want to be there.
<AstralJava> Adri2000: Might work, just gotta add a debian/watch file
<AstralJava> james_w: Thank you! That was the answer. :)
<kumy> can someone do a review to my packages?
<kumy> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=webilder
<kumy> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=hwreport
<kumy> thanks :)
<Falken> Hi MOTU
<slayton> if I want to add my application to the Applications Menu do I specify where in the menu it goes in the control file or in the desktop file?
<AstralJava> .desktop file
<slayton> AstralJava, thanks... and if I want to create a new folder in the application menu how do I do that?
<pochu> what for?
<AstralJava> slayton: Not sure about that. Normally we should refer to freedesktop.org's recommendations.
<slayton> ok
<AstralJava> But if you have good reason, I suppose it works. Second pochu's question, though. :)
<slayton> what for?  I am hoping to package an entire suite of applications that we would like to have their own folder under applications
<pochu> what kind of apps are they?
<pochu> OpenOffice doesn't have its own menu section, for example
<Falken> quick question on my first package : there is no manpage with the binary, is it mandatory ? if so, should I ask the upstream author to produce one or write it myself ?
<pochu> Falken: write it yourself
<slayton> they are applications that are specifically designed to visualize and collect electrophysiological data from some hardware that we have built
<pochu> Falken: and send it to upstream :)
<pochu> there's a Science section I believe
<slayton> you're right about OpenOffice but ubuntu does have an "Office" entry
<Falken> okay ! thanks mentor ;)
<Falken> so I assume it's mandatory.
<slayton> pochu, so when I installed crossover it created a menu entry for "Windows Apps"
<pochu> Falken: it may be uploaded without it, but it's better to create them
<Falken> sure, of course.
<pochu> slayton: these are the official categories: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html
<pochu> slayton: if any of those fits your needs, I think it would be better to use them instead of creating another section. OTOH I'll probably never use those apps...
<slayton> pochu: thanks! a second question, when I add my repository to a computer the applications show up under synaptic but not under Add/Remove programs...  what is required to get apps to show up under Add/Remove
<pochu> slayton: I think it (gnome-app-install) uses the app-install-data package, so it looks for files in /usr/share/app-install/desktop/, I'd say
<pochu> slayton: but no package in the Ubuntu archive should do that manually, so don't do that if you want to have your packages in the official repositories
<slayton> pochu, none of these apps will end up in the official repos
<slayton> so if I want my apps to show up there, I need to put the desktop file in app-install/desktop and if i want them to show up in the menu I need to put a desktop file in /usr/share/applications, right? just trying to make sure I'm getting this
<slayton> also after I add a desktop file how do I reload the application menu to get the new app to show up?
<james_w> slayton: if you have a .desktop file in the package that is installed in to /usr/share/applications/ then it will get a menu entry. It will then get included in a later version of app-install-data automatically.
<james_w> you should look at dh_desktop which should take care of the other bits, but won't install the .desktop file for you.
<slayton> ok thanks... so i'm just messing around now and creating some desktop files by hand... how can i get those entries to show up automatically? do i have to reload X?
<james_w> slayton: no, update-desktop-database I believe
<Falken> question : how do I integrate the manpage in the package ?
<Falken> I made a mybinary.1 , but don't know where to put it, and if I need to add rules to deploy it
<joaopinto> I believe that you only need update-desktop-database if your .desktop provides a mime association, otherwise dropping the file on /usr/share/applications is sufficient
<james_w> Falken: check out dh_installman
<Falken> woohoo ok thanks :P
<mouz> Would somebody mind reviewing my package (a light weight terminal emulator)? bug 216603 , http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=stjerm . Thanks :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 216603 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] stjerm" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216603
<Iulian> Falken: Well, I use pod2man. Create a file named binary.pod with your man page. After that create a manpages file and write debian/binary.1
<Iulian> Falken: In debian/rules, build target, you should have something like pod2man --section=1 --release="" --center "" debian/binary.pod > debian/binary.1
<Iulian> Falken: And remove binary.1 in the clean target.
<Iulian> That should do it.
<Falken> woah
<Falken> okay then
<Iulian> Falken: Don't forget to call dh_installman
<Falken> yep it's done, obviously it wasn't enough :)
<Falken> lulian: I just need to touch a file named binary.pod with nothing in it ?
<Iulian> Falken: That file should contain your manual page.
<Falken> oh ok
<Falken> my page is already formatted, so I guess I can skip that part
<Falken> hum, no I can't, it's built during the package install
 * Iulian is going to sleep.
<Iulian> Good night.
<Falken> good night lulian, thanks for helping
<null_vector> Falken: easiest way isd to create a debian/manpages file with a list of the manapages you want installed
<Falken> null_vector : and ... that's it ?
<Falken> it is easy indeed :)
<ScottK> Adri2000 or Lutin: DaD seems broken.  No component pages.
<ScottK> leonel: I don't see any security issues in today's clamav releases.  Do you concur?
<Falken> it works ! thanks null_vector :D
<leonel> ScottK: All ok
<ScottK> leonel: Thanks for checking.
<silwol> hi!
<silwol> how do I get a .orig.tar.gz when a debian/rules get-orig-source updates directly from svn?
<bdrung> try to run "debian/rules get-orig-source"
<silwol> yes, that updates my current directory to the recent svn version
<silwol> but there is no .orig.tar.gz file or .orig directory after that...
<silwol> ah, just found it... this package stores it in ../tarballs
<Adri2000> ScottK: thanks, DaD migrated to a new server recently, and it seems everything broke
<RainCT> Adri2000: btw, anything new regarding MoM?
<Adri2000> nope........
<RainCT> Adri2000: uhm.. I thought Mark asked for the features to be implemented in a reasonable amount of time? and now it's blocking on them... :P
<wgrant> RainCT: Ah, I thought the ball was on your side of the court.
<wgrant> So they might too.
<Adri2000> wgrant: see branches at https://code.launchpad.net/merge-o-matic, they've been waiting for feedback for weeks
<Adri2000> RainCT: yes he did :)
<wgrant> Adri2000: Oh, hmm. I see.
<slayton> on: http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apcs03.html  it states that .menu files need to be saved to: sysconfdir/menus/application-merged/ for menu items to show up as new folders... can anybody tell me where sysconfdir/menus/application-merged/ is in Hardy Heron?
<null_vector> Do you need to mention debian/control in the changelog when using update-maintainer?
<wgrant> slayton: /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged
<slayton> ty
<RainCT> null_vector: Well, that depends on you. The entry that update-maintainer adds is enough, but if you mention that the change was in debian/control even better.
<slayton> wgrant: so I add my .menu files there... and my .desktop and .directory files to /usr/share/applications/  ?
<RainCT> null_vector: if you do other changes in debian/control then I'd say add a "* debian/control:" bullet and list the maintainer change and the other changes as sub-points of it
<wgrant> slayton: Why are you adding a new folder? That is generally a bad idea.
<null_vector> RainCT: One more debdiff: bug #246406.  I just created the bug.  Should I subscribe anyone?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246406 in yap "FTBFS in Intrepid. No mode in open call" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246406
 * RainCT looks
<slayton> people have been telling me all day that adding your own menu entries is discouraged.... I'm building a suite of scientific software... it will be installed on machines that will only be used for this softwware... we'd like to give them their own menu entry
<slayton> but is my above question correct about locations?
<RainCT> slayton: for the .desktop file, yes. (I don't know about the others)
<slayton> ok thanks... like I said i've been extensively reading the documentation at freedesktop.org but it isn't making perfect sense
<wgrant> slayton: How do you know it is going to be used only on machines with that restriction?
<slayton> well I guess somebody could run other things on these machines... but most people who have access to these machines have their own laptops/desktops and they won't want to run anything else on the machines they use for experiments
<slayton> i mean these machines are being bought exclusively for doing experiments
<RainCT> null_vector: looks good, subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<Falken> copyright question : the upstream under X11/MIT License, and my package is under GPL. how should I fill the License field in debian/copyright ? is it even possible to have upstream in a type of license and package in another ?
<wgrant> slayton: But what about people outside your organisation..?
<wgrant> Falken: It's generally a good idea to match your packaging to the software.
<RainCT> null_vector: (note that it's good practice to explain what the patch is for in the "## DP:" line of the .dpatch file)
<slayton> umm... they debs will be hosted on a public repo but unless they have the hardware to interface with the software there won't be any reason for them to use the software
<slayton> and the hardware they buy from us
<Falken> okay then, no problem. thanks wgrant !
<null_vector> RainCT: sorry, forgot about that.
 * null_vector goes home
<RainCT> Falken: if by "license field" you mean the  "License:" header, that is about the upstream tarball
<RainCT> null_vector: good night :)
<slayton> anyway the /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged was exactly the answer to my question!  Thank you guys are always very helpful
<Falken> RainCT: absolutely. I got it from there, but I was wondering if I had to add the GPL for the package itself
<RainCT> Falken: I guess the "The Debian packaging is licensed..." lines which come in dh_make's template are enough
<RainCT> Falken: and I think I have some package where upstream is BSD and the packaging is GPL (without the header, just those two lines) and so far nobody has complained about it :)
<Falken> okay
<Falken> to be honest I don't care, but I want to do it the right way :)
<Falken> you're right, dh_make's template wrote "package licensed under the GPL, see above"
<Falken> I'm only removing "see above" then :P
<RainCT> Falken: uh, "see above" or "see /usr/share/common-licenses.."?
<Falken> it's "see above" , referring to the License:  text
<Falken> but if the text isn't GPL, it doesn't make sense
<RainCT> it should be something like:  The Debian packaging is (C) 2008, Your Name <email> and is licensed under the GPL, see `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL'.
<Falken> oh ok ! great
<RainCT> or just license it under the same license as upstream uses..
<tester_> I'm not sure if I am in the right place.  I was told someone here might be able to help me fix my aprutil1 package to contain apr_dbd_mysql.so
<RainCT> well, I'm off.. good night
<ion_> ` as a left single quotation mark is an abomination. :-)
<Falken> good night RainCT, thanks for helping :D
<RainCT> ion_: heh. tell the dh_make guys, that's copy-pasted ;)
<RainCT> Falken: no problem :)
<bdrung> wgrant: last time you helped me packaging matplotlib. so i have subscribed you to bug #246408
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246408 in matplotlib "Please merge matplotlib 0.98.1-1 from Debian/unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246408
<Falken> updated flabber package on REVU - Please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=flabber
<Falken> thanks in advance
<tester_> I am would like to update my aprutil1 source package to include apr_dbd_mysql.so.  I have downloaded the source.  How do I edit the configuration and rebuilder/install the package with the apr_dbd_mysql.so module?
<dushara> Hi, I need help registering a project
<emgent> heya
#ubuntu-motu 2008-07-08
<cody-somerville> \o_
<emgent> heya
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> hi
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<nxvl> hi!
<sistpoty|work> hi nxvl
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> packages.ubuntu.com is down again ?
<nxvl> not here
<AnAnt> ?'
<nxvl> i can open it normaly
<persia> AnAnt: For what do you use packages.ubuntu.com?  It may be there is also another way.
<AnAnt> persia: I want to know what version of swt-gtk is in intrepid ?
<persia> AnAnt: `rmadison swt-gtk`
<AnAnt> persia: swt-gtk 3.4 is released
<AnAnt> persia: no return
<AnAnt> persia: that means that there's no swt-gtk ?
<AnAnt> persia: btw, I am using hardy now
<persia> At least there is no package by that name.
<AnAnt> persia: ok, how do I request a sync ?
<RAOF> AnAnt: You mean the Java GUI toolkit?
<AnAnt> persia: swt-gtk 3.4~rc3 is in Debian
<persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess
<AnAnt> RAOF: I think so
<RAOF> Heh.  That package description lies so much: " - Fast and rich GUI toolkit for Java" :)
<persia> RAOF: Do you know a faster or richer GUI toolkit for Java?
<RAOF> The gtk bindings?
<AnAnt> can someone review webstrict on REVU ?
<RAOF> Actually, maybe I'm thinking of the other Java GUI toolkit.
<persia> awt?
<RAOF> That might be it.
<bliZZardz> RAOF : how is JavaFX?
<persia> Yeah.  AWT is the reason SWT exists.
<RAOF> bliZZardz: Dunno.
<bliZZardz> RAOF : you are looking at web based ones or for clients?
<RAOF> Well, for clients.  Web based ones don't count.
<AnAnt> can someone review webstrict on REVU ?
<AnAnt> sorry I was disconnected
<\sh> moins
<AnAnt> persia: ok, I found a new package on intrepid, how can I fetch its changelog ?
<\sh> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com
<persia> And this is why it's best to ask questions generally :)
<AnAnt> persia: I done a general request regarding webstrict, and I got no answer :)
<persia> AnAnt: Right, but asking for something quick & specific (like "Where do I find changelogs" is more likely to get a response than "Please REVU this package", whether specific or general.
<AnAnt> ok
<\sh> AnAnt: webstrict already reviewed by rainct...
<\sh> AnAnt: you didn't respond to the review at all
<AnAnt> \sh: how's that, there is a new upload
<\sh> AnAnt: so tell the people that
<\sh> AnAnt: webstrict_1.0-0ubuntu3_source.changes that's the version on revu
<\sh> AnAnt: if there is no "oh, i fixed this and that as you remarked" nobody knows
<AnAnt> \sh: aha, ok
<AnAnt> ok, how do I know wether  swt-gtk & xulrunner will be sync'ed (before I submit a request) ?
<RAOF> xulrunner certainly won't be sync'd.
<AnAnt> why's that ?
<RAOF> Because our xulrunner packaging is different to Debian's, and will likely remain so.
<RAOF> You notice the big bold on the top of the SyncRequest page? "you must ensure the Ubuntu changes have been merged or are no longer relevant"
<AnAnt_> RAOF: ok, here's my issue, in the latest changelog entry of swt-gtk package, the maintainer depends on xulrunner-dev instead xul-dev
<RAOF> Right.  So, this won't be a sync.  It'll be a merge.
<AnAnt_> RAOF: oh, what's the difference ?
<RAOF> A sync is where we take the Debian source package and copy it into Ubuntu's repositories.
<AnAnt_> RAOF: so, is there a merge request ?
<RAOF> A merge is where a human looks at the existing Ubuntu packge and the new Debian package, and figures out how to make a new Ubuntu package.
<RAOF> Hm.  Where are you getting swt-gtk from?
<RAOF> In Ubuntu it seems to be built from the eclipse source package.
<AnAnt_> RAOF: in Debian
<RAOF> There's a swt-gtk source package in Debian?
<AnAnt_> RAOF: yup
<AnAnt_> swt-gtk (3.4~rc3)
<persia> There used to be one in Ubuntu as well.  It was removed back in 2006 because the implementation in eclipse was preferred.  Fashion is again swinging the other way.
<RAOF> Oh, what fun.
<AnAnt_> persia: Debian seems to have both !
<persia> AnAnt: Both the old and the new swt-gtk?  I don't think so.  swt-gtk in both eclipse and a separate source, yes, as does Ubuntu.  Note that eclipse is swt-gtk-3.2 and the standalone is swt-gtk-3.4.  I expect that the version in eclipse may be dropped once all dependencies are migrated.
<rutil> HI all! I was wondering if a package in universe can depend on or recommend a package in multiverse. Where can I find information on this topic?
<RAOF> Recommend: probably.  Depend, no.
<persia> rutil: A package in universe may only depend, recommend, build-depend, or build-depend-indep on packages in universe or main.  If it wants to do anything with a package in multiverse, it may break, or suggest it.
<persia> RAOF: Surely not, now that we have recommends-by-default and germinate processing recommends.
<RAOF> persia: I may have misremembered the outcome of "can main recommend universe".  I thought the answer there was "yes", and by extension universe should be able to recommend multiverse.
<persia> Ah.  I thought the outcome was "No".
 * persia hunts for a reference
<rutil> persia: probably suggests: is the right field then. I didn't understand "it may break", can you elaborate, please?
<RAOF> rutil: There's a Breaks: field.  A universe package can decleare that it Breaks: a package in multiverse.
<persia> rutil: A package in universe may include a package in multiverse in the Breaks: field.
<persia> Did Enhances: ever get implemented anywhere?
<RAOF> Yeah.
<persia> Where?
<RAOF> I'm pretty sure it's implemented somewhere; at least one package uses it.
<persia> I suspect a package in universe might be able to enhance a package in multiverse, although I don't know what tool uses this field.
<RAOF> Which suggests that dpkg, at least, doesn't barf on it :)
<persia> Well, it's permitted, but I'm not sure it's used.
<rutil> RAOF, persia: interesting... is there any particular problem I risk to face using Breaks: ?
<persia> rutil: As far as I know, Breaks: works fine, although it's a rare case where you need it.
<RAOF> I'm not sure what the question is.  Breaks: is used as an aid to apt/dpkg when figuring out dependencies/conflicts/etc.
<RAOF> Debian isn't using Breaks yet; not until Lenny's released.
<RAOF> But apart from that...
<rutil> persia, RAOF: I understand. BTW, Suggests should work fine for me. Thank you, you have been of great help
<AnAnt> ok, how do I file a merge request for xulrunner ?
<AnAnt> and can a sync request be filed for a package that doesn't exist in Ubuntu ?
<RAOF> Absolutely.
<persia> RAOF: I can't official statement.  Colin wrote https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-June/025684.html, and later processed that as https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-July/025697.html.  Matt later indicated this was probably correct in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-July/025715.html
<persia> s/'t off/'t find a off/
<persia> AnAnt: When filing a sync request for a package not in Ubuntu, file it against the ubuntu project, with no package.  For xulrunner, you'll want to ask in #ubuntu-mozillateam
<RAOF> Ok.  There doesn't seem to be an official answer there, but I now agree that "no" is the general trend.
<philsf> I want to create meta-packages to ease bundle installations of preferred packages.Can anyone recommend a beginner's tutorial?
<RAOF> philsf: It's extremely simple.  Basically you only need to worry about debian/control.
<RAOF> philsf: Maybe starting with 'apt-get source ubuntu-desktop', which is a typical metapackage, will give you some idea.
<persia> Well, except that ubuntu-desktop is one of those seeded germinate-based packages.
<RAOF> Oh, really?  I though I'd apt-get source'd ubuntu-desktop at one point and got something sane.
<RAOF> Maybe I was making that bit up.
<persia> RAOF: Certainly possible, but there's another example that's preferred for local stuff: I'm hunting it now...
<persia> Right.  The equivs package contains documentation and hints to create local metapackages for preferred applications.
<persia> The *-meta packages are likely better examples if one wants to construct a flavour.
<philsf> um, flavour?
<philsf> %)
<persia> philsf: e.g. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Server, Mobile, Studio, etc.
<philsf> is that a custom distro?
<philsf> ok
<philsf> I'll take a look in equivs, thanks
<philsf> If I just put in package's names, and never versions, I should be able to install it both in ubuntu and debian, right?
<dholbach> or meta-gnome2
<dholbach> or meta-telepathy
<persia> philsf: Precisely.
<persia> dholbach: Do you think something based on meta-gnome2 is better than something based on equivs for local use?
<dholbach> I never looked at equivs, sorry
<Festor> Does anyone know anything about the library libmozembed-linux-gtk2?
<Festor> I have not been able to find its source
<Festor> 	
<Festor> Many Java applications distributed its source code with this library precompiled
<philsf> it's needed for acroread, right? I was looking for it too, last week
<Festor> philsf, you talk with me?
<philsf> Festor: yup
<Festor> Not only for acroread
<Festor> frostwire
<Festor> and others apps
<persia> For mozembed, I'd encourage asking in #ubuntu-mozillateam, as there resides the expertise in *moz*
<Festor> Despite these applications are GPL
<Festor> ok, thanks
<persia> Festor: Java upstream is far too often frustrating.  You might also ask in #ubuntu-java for guidance on others experience in convincing upstream to actually ship source.
<Festor> OK, thanks again
<philsf> persia: didn't sun gpl'ed java recently?
<philsf> or is it the gerund type of action
<persia> philsf: Well, huge chunks of something called Java.  OpenJDK is working it's way to being both complete and clean in Ubuntu.
<philsf> oh
<Festor> But I can upload a precompiled lib to universe?
<Festor> These libraries are mozilla so it will probably be free (libres)
<RAOF> I don't think so, no.  Universe has to build from source.
<Festor> or at least that's what I think
<persia> Festor: Nope.  Everything in universe must be compiled from source.
<siretart> Festor: you could try with multiverse, but universe isn't worth trying, I'd say
<persia> Sometimes there are exceptions for come things (e.g. images), but even PDF files often get rejected.
<dushara> hey
<persia> dushara: hey
<dushara> hi persia: got that issue sorted out. Now I'm packaging separately for Ubuntu :-)
<persia> dushara: Excellent.  Glad to hear it.
<Festor> One question, a [needs-packaging] bug could be assigned to MOTU team?
<RAOF> No.
<Festor> I say for this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/95666
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 95666 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] OrbisCAD" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<Festor> and this
<Festor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/94722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 94722 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ANts P2P" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<Festor> I think there are many more
<RAOF> Needs-packaging bugs are waiting for someone interested to come and package the software.  They shouldn't be assigned until someone actually wants to do the work.
<geser> Laney: re the ffmpeg rebuilds: I'd prefer to see debdiffs for the rebuilds as it makes the sponsoring for me easier (just apply the debdiff and debuild -S)
<dushara> Question: Started a new project scim-wijesekera in launchpad (I'm also the developer). What do I do about the " Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but Maintainer: does not have Ubuntu address" warning?
<Festor> thanks RAOF , so I can unassigned these bugs?
<huats> morning dear MOTUs
<persia> dushara: If you're packaging for inclusion in Ubuntu, you want to set an Ubuntu maintainer.  We typically use team maintainers: if you don't have any other team, MOTU is often a good candidate.
<siretart> Festor: never assign a bug to a team. that's pretty pointless
<sebner> huats: morning (though I'm not a motu) ^^
<huats> hey sebner :)
<RAOF> Festor: You can unassign those bugs, but I wouldn't bother.  It doesn't hurt much.
<dushara> persia: What's the address?
<persia> Maintainer: Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>
<Festor> But I wanted to try to pack a bug assigned to MOTU
<Festor> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/94722
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 94722 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] ANts P2P" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<persia> Festor: Feel free to reassign it to yourself then.
<Festor> ok, thanks
<dushara> persia: Thanks.
<Festor> I found libmozembed
<Festor> but in Debian
<Festor> ...
<Festor> 	
<Festor> Should I use the same procedure as to create a new package for the Ubuntu import a Debian package?
<Festor> this is the package:
<Festor> http://packages.debian.org/sid/libjdic-bin
<persia> Festor: Did you not get any information about it from the mozilla team?
<Festor> nop
<Festor> they only found rpm package with precompiled lib
<persia> Well, if you want to import a package from Debian, the SyncRequestProcess is your best process.
<AnAnt> hello, can someone review my swt-gtk package upload on REVU ?
<persia> AnAnt: I thought you were syncing from Debian.  Why is it on REVU?
<gnomefreak> ScottK: isnt ~8.04~jjv lower than ~hardy1?
<gnomefreak> im going on the ~jjv at the end made it lower
<AnAnt_> persia: Debian has rc3, I made package for the stable release
<AnAnt_> persia: besides, there had to be a change for Ubuntu, build-depend on xulrunner-1.9-dev instead of xulrunner-dev
<persia> AnAnt_: Ah.  I'd have recommended you coordinate with the Debian Maintainer to do that, who would likely have been able to push it to Debian within a few hours, but I've missed you.
<persia> Oh!  I didn't see the tail.  Excellent.  Please check with the Debian Maintainer: I'm sure there will be support to get the stable release uploaded directly, so we can sync.
<persia> Hmm.  I'm unsure of policy for that.
<persia> Any other opinions?  Should NEW packages in Debian processed for an Ubuntu variation go through REVU, or as bugs?
<wgrant> Or we could make our Mozilla people comply with Debian, which is probably an all-round better idea.
<AnAnt_> persia: btw, according to mozillateam, there will be a xulrunner-dev in Ubuntu too, but it doesn't exist now
<AnAnt_> but I dunno if that will be in Intrepid or what
<persia> wgrant: That makes more sense.
<persia> AnAnt_: Could you please coordinate with the Debian Maintainer to get the newer version in Debian, and the mozillateam to ensure that we don't have to carry this silly variation for every single package (in many cases, Provides: works just fine).
<directhex> gnomefreak:
<directhex> directhex@mortos:~$ dpkg --compare-versions 1.0-1~8.04~jjv gt 1.0-1~hardy1 || echo "the jjv one is higher"
<directhex> the jjv one is higher
<wgrant> 'dpkg returns success (zero result) if  the  specified  condition  is  satisfied,'
<wgrant> You want &&
<directhex> close enough ;)
<directhex> i blame lack of sleep
<gnomefreak> ok guess im rebuilding everything
<TheMuso> n/c
<geser> Hi TheMuso
<AnAnt__> persia: sorry I was away
<AnAnt__> persia: how will Provides work ?
<persia> AnAnt: If two packages are functionally identical, one may indicate that it Provides: the other.  When the package management tools cannot find a specific package, but can find a package that Provides: that package, they will select the providing package for installation.
<emgent> morning
<sebner> emgent: \o/
<goshawk> hi
<persia> goshawk: hi
<goshawk> i'm trying to make a deb package for ubuntu (i'm packaging dsss a tool to compile and install D programs), what should i do to be accepted in ubuntu universe repository?
<sebner> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<mok0> sebner: heh ubotu is sleeping...
<goshawk> tahnks sebner
<sebner> mok0: really laggy
<persia> mok0: ?
<mok0> persia: eerrh he woke up I guess
<mok0> ubotu, are you asleep?
<sebner> ubottu: speed up!
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about speed up!
<mok0> LOL
<Pici> !lag
<ubottu> You have lag, I don't have lag
<mok0> ubottu: everybody except you have lag
<ubottu> mok0: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<sebner> rofl
<persia> Erm.  Let's not abuse the bot.  Too much attention, and it tends to sulk for a couple days :(
<mok0> I guess he is busy serving all those losers over at #ubuntu ;-)
<persia> Erm.  Many of those people are very important in ensuring that Ubuntu works properly.  Without #ubuntu, Ubuntu would not be what it is today.
<slytherin> mok0: I don't think losers is appropriate term.
<sebner> mok0: uh uh uh. bad words
<mok0> slytherin: you are right I apoligize
<mok0> Bad attempt at being funny
<AnAnt__> persia: mozillateam says that they done that in the bzr already
<AnAnt__> persia: but they doubt it'll work, so they are planning to make an empty xulrunner-dev package that will depend on xulrunner-1.9-dev
<mok0> I have to reboot
<AnAnt__> anyone knows when is next intrepid upload ?
<sebner> wb mok0
<geser> AnAnt__: next upload of what? xulrunner?
<goshawk> uhm...
<AnAnt__> geser: yeah
<goshawk> i'm packaging a tool that needs itself to be compiled... how to solve this problem?
<geser> AnAnt__: it's up to the mozillateam when they do a new upload
<persia> AnAnt__: That works too.  Thanks for checking with them: with that new dummy package, will we be able to sync with Debian once they update to the now released upstream?
<Hobbsee> anything interesting happening?
<AnAnt__> persia: well, got to talk with the maintainer
<persia> AnAnt__: Almost there then :)
<persia> Hobbsee: Always.  Would you like a task?
<AnAnt__> persia: so no need for package on REVU
<Hobbsee> persia: probably not :P
<persia> AnAnt__: That's what I think.  Let's wait until you hear back from Debian before we nuke it.
<persia> Hobbsee: Well then, you don't get to play :p
<Hobbsee> aww
<Hobbsee> well, depends what's on offer
<persia> Let's see: rcbugs, unmetdeps, mutliverse demotions, ubuntu-local package updates, watch files, NBS.
<\sh> siretart: ping are you going to the FAI developer workshop (august  @linuxhotel, essen) ?
<persia> There's a heap of Kubuntu NBS, if that interests you.
<geser> has someone an idea how to best sponsor the ffmpeg rebuild requests in the u-u-s queue as they don't have debdiffs? wait for debdiffs or simply do the rebuilds myself?
<siretart> \sh: puh, TBH, I currently don't plan to do so.
<persia> geser: Are you talking about Laney's bug?
<geser> persia: yes
<\sh> siretart: k
<siretart> \sh: do you plan to attend?
<persia> geser: I'd just process it and close the bug, rather than pushing debdiffs.  He's had a few days, and reported several times that they all build correctly.
<\sh> siretart: I don't have the time...:( too much to do @office and for leonov...and I
<\sh> 'm attending froscon which is also in august :(
<\sh> siretart: I just asked you, because it would be good to have at least a "biased" fai lover there to make fai work properly for hardy/intrepid
<siretart> hm. I'll think about it
<geser> persia: do I put him into the changelog or myself? I don't want to "steal" the rebuilds from him but I don't want to invest to much time on the changelog either.
<persia> geser: I'd "steal" them.  When I find good bugs in the queue, and the person doesn't have a good debdiff, and doesn't get one soon, I tend to just adjust, update the changelog, and upload.
<persia> From my experience when receiving sponsoring, I tended to prefer that the bugs I worked on got fixed, rather than that I got changelog credit, and tended to learn when you or crim*sun would "steal" them with additional corrections.
<persia> On the other hand, my first NBS work was very confusing, as my sponsor fixed a bunch of things and uploaded with my name in the changelog, so the packages in the repo didn't match my local patches.
<geser> persia: thanks
<geser> has someone an idea how to prevent "Building database of manual pages" in a pbuilder? I don't need the manpages during a build and it only takes time.
<persia> geser: dpkg triggers?
<geser> persia: I guess
<persia> More seriously, I don't think there is a way, any more than the building font DB issue, or the scrollkeeper update issue.
<persia> Getting triggers widely implemented likely won't happen until post-lenny (intrepid+1), so we're likely stuck for now.
<directhex> allRIGHTY then. i finally have a package in sid. so, where do i request a sync?
<persia> directhex: w.u.c/SyncRequestProcess
<broonie> Probably worth a wishlist against pbuilder - dancer may well want to handle it like start-stop-daemon or similar.
<persia> broonie: Does it make sense to have many of those?  I'd personally prefer to have the build environment be close to the target environment, even if this makes it take a little longer.
<persia> (That said, I use sbuild+schroot, and actually do start the daemons at build time, when required)
<broonie> persia: Well, it'd be nice if pbuilder ran faster :)
<persia> broonie: I guess.  I value correct over fast, but that's likely me.
<nxvl> good morning everyone!
<broonie> persia: It should be a whitelist of triggers for things like the man-db update that are guaranteed not required rather than suppressing all triggers.
<persia> broonie: I guess.  On the other hand, for me the issue is that it does this sometimes several times in a single installation run, whereas doing it once would be less painful.
<broonie> That's nothing to do with pbuilder - it's a generic "issue" with triggers (it was brought up on d-d recently, not sure what the conclusion of the thread was)
<persia> My understanding was that the goal was to only do these things once, but that the mechanism for doing so wasn't implemented in all packages, and not considered release-important for lenny.
<persia> Then again, I've not been a d-d reader for a few years now, so I'm quite likely mistaken,
<broonie> There's two orthogonal issues.
<broonie> One is that more packages could use triggers than currently do so.
<broonie> The other (the one with multiple invocations of triggers) is that triggers get run more frequently than might perhaps be desirable.
<persia> Ah, I see.  I'd consider the second a bug, as part of the slowly improving implementation.
<broonie> Indeed. Everything actually works fine so it's not critical. IIRC half of it is better integration with apt.
<null_vector> morning
<null_vector> wow boost is messed up with the gcc change
<RainCT> morning null_vector :)
<null_vector> How are you today RainCT?
<bddebian> Heya gang
<sebner> hi bddebian =)
<bddebian> Hello sebner
<geser> Hi bddebian
<emgent> hello there
<sebner> emgent: \o/
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
<sistpoty|work> and hi emgent
<sebner> geser: you are like a working-animal (arbeitstier)
<sebner> hihi sistpoty|work  =)
<emgent> sistpoty|work: geser sebner heya :)
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<emgent> hot day..
<slayton> is anybody here familiar with using xdg-desktop-meny?
<slayton> xdg-desktop-menu?
<persia> slayton: Yes, and I very much discourage you from using it.
<persia> You'll do best to encode things in interesting categories in your .desktop files, and then have the menu system or launcher use this informaiton to control display in a manner well integrated with the rest of the environment.
<geser> sebner: yes :) I didn't do many uploads in the last weeks so I need to catch up to be back on track for my regular amount of uploads/sync for a release (around 300) :)
<persia> Trying to adjust the menus directly tends to lead to confusion, and possible significant differences in behaviour in different environments.
<sebner> geser: WOW (no vista) xD
<slayton> so I've pretty much been getting that same response for the last week or so... everybody is telling me that creating my own menu entries is bad... but why?
<slayton> If the software I'm deploying is going to be used in a highly controlled environment is it really that big of an issue?
<null_vector> stdlib.h or string.h  doesn't pull in limits.h anymore?
<persia> slayton: If the software you're deploying is going to be used in a highly controlled environment, this is the wrong forum in which to seek advice.
<persia> null_vector: gcc-4.3 doesn't recursively track things anymore anyway.
<null_vector> yay =/
<slayton> ok thanks....
<bddebian> Heya geser, emgent, sistpoty|work :)
<emgent> o/
<sebner> persia: hmm I have currently 2 packages on revu and enough reviewers (currently looking at it) but I promise you the third is yours ;)
<sebner> emgent: bah! still not a motu :P
<slytherin> does anyone know off hand if hamster is already packaged?
<emgent> sebner: yeah i know, waiting Motu Council votes.
<Iulian> slytherin: No, it's not IIRC.
<sebner> emgent: speed it up (with free beer) xD
<slytherin> Iulian: Not present in debian too.
<emgent> sebner: lol
<sebner> emgent: though it may look like corruption :P
<emgent> sebner: it`s impossible, i will wait.
 * sebner ist just making fun =)
<Iulian> slytherin: You should talk to Tim Retout (he reported the ITP bug to Debian) if you'd like to start packaging it.
<emgent> sebner: hehe i know.
<slytherin> Iulian: nooo, I stay away from python packaging. :-D
<Iulian> Heh
<RainCT> slytherin: why, python packaging is great :P
<bliZZardz> slytherin : what is tough in py pkging?
 * RainCT stays away from C/C++ stuff packaging :)
<slytherin> RainCT: bliZZardz: Never said it was tough. But I am more interested in java packaging. :-)
<RainCT> bliZZardz: it has it's own policy (you've to use pycentral/pysupport to byte-compile the files, etc)
<bliZZardz> c/c++ is PIA
<Iulian> bliZZardz: Why?
<slytherin> bliZZardz: may be, but you have to take into consideration that most of the Free software is written in C/C++ :-D
<persia> Bah.  C is easy to package.  With python, one has to do all sorts of contortions to ensure that one only uses libraries available for some specific python version and avoid using ezsetup.
 * Iulian agrees with persia.
<null_vector> If I add dpatch to a package should that be noted in the changelog?
<Iulian> null_vector: Yes
<null_vector> Iulian: thanks
<dholbach> vorian: congratulations!
<bliZZardz> slytherin: lulian : i would like to rephrase what i said... i meant packaging on multi-bit platforms..
<geser> Laney: are you around? could you check if the still open ffmpeg rebuild requests are still valid? looking at the dependencies on intrepid/AMD64 they look to my like a rebuild isn't needed anymore
<geser> vorian: congratulations
<bliZZardz> slytherin: lulian: persia : and if you are not talking abt just ubuntu specific packaging(but even Solaris, Win etc) - then it becomes little tricky
<persia> bliZZardz: Indeed: packaging vs. preparing an upstream release.
<bliZZardz> i still remember the first time when i compiled a C prog in win 98 and took the exe and tried running the exe on win 2k.... i got jacked. (these were teh days when i just knew to print 'foobar'
<null_vector> Is there an easy way to edit a dpatch?  I need to add an include to an existing patch.
<geser> null_vector: dpatch-edit-patch
<null_vector> damn I love dpatch
 * raphink_ prefers cdbs' simple-patchsys or even quilt to dpatch, but since most packages use dpatch... 
<mouz> Would somebody mind doing a second review on my packaging of stjerm (a light weight terminal emulator)? Bug 216603, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=stjerm. Thanks :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 216603 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] stjerm" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216603
<huats> vorian: congrats
<DktrKranz> vorian: congrats!
<sebner> null_vector: always document *every* change ;)
<sebner> vorian: congratulations! :D
<sebner> dholbach: bah that's unfair -.-
<sebner> null_vector: i think quilt is alot more easier to use
<dholbach> hm?
<null_vector> sebner: Know of any good intro quilt? Might check it out.
<geser> null_vector: I usually use the one on the wiki when I need to deal with quilt
<Iulian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#head-144f4addc9168b6fba691616e44f75d34fb5af77
<RainCT> vorian: congrats!
<slytherin> sebner: are you kidding quilt is pain.
<sebner> slytherin: O_o for me quilt is easier than dpatch
<null_vector> grats vorian
<brandon|work> ScottK, ping
 * hefe_bia likes quilt, too :)
<hefe_bia> I need some clarification on the get-orig-source target
<hefe_bia> Is it supposed to get the source matching the package version or the newest version?
<tseliot> syspoty|work: the packages are ready for testing, in case you're interested.
<null_vector> Anyone have any experience with the "__stack_chk_fail_local" issues?
<geser> null_vector: build failure?
<null_vector> geser: dlopen
<geser> null_vector: it is related to the gcc stack protector
<null_vector> geser: yes, the library being build and dlopened seems to be using the stack protection bits
<sistpoty|work> tseliot: ah, not too sure if I manage to come around it once I'm home, as I'm now > 11 hours at work already
<tseliot> ï»¿sistpoty|work: no problem. This was just FYI ;)
<sistpoty|work> tseliot: thanks :)
<Festor> Is it necessary to request a review of REVU packages in this channel?
<Festor> I say this for it seems that there are many packages unreviewed
<sebner> Festor: well if you want somebody to lookt at them ;)
<geser> Festor: it's not necessary but it often helps (but don't repeat your requests too often else you might get ignored)
<Festor> I do not say that review my packages. I mean that there are many with no comment
<Festor> And.. one question, Can I delete my package in REVU?
<Festor> I change the name and now I have two packages with different names
<Festor> This is the old
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ted
<Festor> I want delete that package
<sistpoty|work> Festor: deleted
<Festor> thanks
<sistpoty|work> np
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<Festor> well, someone might revise my packages?
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=rarcrack
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-transparent
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-desktop-integration
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gendesign
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ted-tv
<Festor> and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lh-abc
<sebner> Festor: addicted to packaging? O_o
<Festor> ehh, yes?
<null_vector> Is everything compiled with stack checking by default?
<geser> yes
<rootvzla> hi n.n
<slytherin> rootvzla: what is n.n?
<ryse> emoticon~
<rootvzla> slytherin is a happy face
<rootvzla> hi ryse
<ryse> hello
<rootvzla> someone knows algun motu that can help me or help me to leave the doubts that have or can teach me on the packages of ubuntu
<rootvzla> ?
<slytherin> rootvzla: express your doubts
<null_vector> geser: I'm confused now because adding -fno-stack-protector to CFLAGS for the package fixes the problem.
<bbyever> slytherin: rootvzla would like to know if there is a mentor that could help him with packaging but in spanish
<rootvzla> bbyever :) eso
<slytherin> rootvzla: I am not. Sorry. :-)
<geser> null_vector: why? disabling the stack protection is a working fix but I don't remember if that's the best fix
<rootvzla> ah =( slytherin
<Festor> I am spanish
<rootvzla> hi Festor :)
<Festor> hi
<null_vector> geser: The issue is that the libs already on the system don't have steck checking enabled.
<rootvzla> una pregunta por casualidad sabes algo de empaquetamiento y como puedo corregir los fallos en ubuntu Festor ?
<rootvzla> o como puedo tener ayuda personal de un motu?
<Festor> rootvzla, please in spanish here #ubuntu-es-dev
<rootvzla> sorry Festor
<emgent> i go out, see you later people
<pochu> is it me or requestsync is broken in Intrepid?
 * sebner never used that
<pochu> sebner: really? it's quite useful ;)
<sebner> pochu: btw, do you know if when you have a game. does upstream should install it to /usr/games/ with the makefile?
<pochu> sebner: no idea about upstream. I guess the FHS will tell it
<sebner> pochu: just wonderin if upstream should do that or us
<pochu> sebner: I think so, look for 'usr/games' in http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.txt.gz
<jpds> sebner: requestsync rocks. ;-(
<jpds> ;-)*
<sebner> hrhr
<pochu> games     Static data files for /usr/games (optional)
<pochu> jpds: does it work for you in Intrepid?
<jpds> pochu: I'm not on Intrepid...
<pochu> jpds: ah, ok
<pochu> hi, btw :)
 * jpds waves "hola" to pochu. :)
<Laney> geser: Nice work on the rebuilds :D
<sebner> lol
<geser> pochu: I used requestsync --lp just yesterday successfully
<pochu> just reported bug 246669
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246669 in ubuntu-dev-tools "requestsync doesn't work in Intrepid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246669
<pochu> --lp doesn't work either
<pochu> it's like if it didn't want to show me the text editor for some reason...
<Laney> pochu: Have you tried using the one in the u-d-t bzr?
<Laney> iirc that bug was fixed
<pochu> Laney: nope, I may try it later, gtg now
<pochu> thanks for the pointer
<Laney> k
<geser> pochu: ah, I still have an older local copy of that script
<pochu> Laney: ah, you fixed it :)
<Laney> I did something with that line, not sure if it was for the same thing ;)
<pochu> from the description it looks like
<pochu> s/description/changelog/
<Laney> yeah, I forget what error I was getting now :(
<pochu> bbl
<Festor> well, someone might revise my packages?
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=rarcrack
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-transparent
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-desktop-integration
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gendesign
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ted-tv
<Festor> and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lh-abc
<null_vector> geser: I'm updating that debdiff for 246406.  I had to add the -fno-stack-protect to yap as I can't track down where the problem really is.
<slayton> is it possible to include supplementary script files in a deb package?  I mean create a few scripts that would all be run by postin or postrm
<slayton> i want to compartmentalize the different things that postinst is going to do... I'd like to create a separate script for each task and then have postinst run them one by one... I tried including the scripts in the debian dir but postinst says it can't find them.... is what I want to do even possible?
<Festor> cody-somerville, I have uploaded to revue the two plugins for amsn you that I had commented to you
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-desktop-integration
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-transparent
<Festor> could you review them?
<cody-somerville> Festor, Certainly.
<hefe_bia_> I also have two packages for review:
<hefe_bia_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gebabbel
<hefe_bia_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tomboy-blogposter
<hefe_bia_> So if somebody finds the time that would be nice ;)
<Festor> Sorry, I had a problem. someone has mentioned my name?
<cody-somerville> Festor, I said "Certainly".
<Festor> ok, thanks
<Festor> cody-somerville, and there are news about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amsn/+bug/99605
<Festor> ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 99605 in amsn "[gutsy][hardy] aMsn sounds don't play while playing something else" [Low,Confirmed]
<cody-somerville> no
<Festor> :(
<slayton> what does dh_icons do?
<RainCT> tseliot: ping
<RainCT> slayton: Â«dh_icons is a debhelper program that updates Freedesktop icon caches when needed, using the update-icon-caches program provided by GTK+2.12.Â», from the manpage
<sebner> huhu norsetto
<norsetto> cheerio
<RainCT> slayton: afaik, it basically creates versions of an image in different sizes
<norsetto> devfil: friend of yours: <-- Rocco has left this channel ("Kernel panic: Aiee, killing devfil!"). ?
<slayton> RainCT: so do I only need to provide one icon and let dh_icons take care of creating all the icons of the appropriate sizes and places them where they need to be?
<devfil> norsetto: lol
<RainCT> slayton: dh_icons only works for a certain sort of icons (I guess that would be SVG), but I don't really know
<devfil> norsetto: is a joke
<sebner> devfil: are you sure? ^^
<RainCT> tseliot: I've some complains about envyng-gtk... :P
<devfil> sebner: yes+
<slayton> RainCT: thank you very much!
<RainCT> slayton: no problem :)
<RainCT> tseliot: a) that the output from the terminal output can't be copied (it's a PITA if you are trying to help someone on IRC, as he has to upload a screenshot)
<RainCT> tseliot: and b), it would be great if it checked it synaptic/aptitude/etc is open and complained about this before trying anything
<sebner> RainCT: license! license!
<devfil> sebner: when will you ask for MOTUship?
<norsetto> devfil: don't encourage him ... please
<RainCT> tseliot: those are the biggest annoyances I've found so far (note: sorry if this is already done/on your TODO/whatever)
<RainCT> sebner: uhm?
<RainCT> sebner: me not understand :P
<sebner> RainCT: see revu
<sebner> norsetto: buh this is now a very interesting situation for me. do you mean it by joke or not
<norsetto> sebner: I'm serious
<sebner> devfil: ok then not in the near future
<devfil> norsetto: if he became MOTU it will upload all packages without check for a sponsor
<devfil> sebner: you are crazy :P
<RainCT> sebner: bah, man kann dir nicht vertrauen :P
<sebner> RainCT: sry :(
<sebner> devfil: why? O_o I trust norsetto when he tells me I shouldn't apply
<devfil> sebner: but DktrKranz will kill you XD
<sebner> devfil: ehm. yeah that's true xD
 * sebner hides
<RainCT> sebner: /me is sad.. why did I overlook that? I *wanted* to complain about something :P :P
<slytherin> Does anyone know how pbuilder bash completion works?
<sebner> RainCT: you complained about the 2 points (what I also could fix =))
<RainCT> lol
<sebner> RainCT: and I fixed now this mv thing with passing the the games directory to configure ;)
<RainCT> good :)
<RainCT> slayton: cat /etc/bash_completion.d/pbuilder
<RainCT> slayton: ;)
<sebner> RainCT: ^^ but stil thanks for the workaround since learning such stuff is always good =)
<slayton> RainCT: what is that?
<RainCT> erm, that was for slytherin, sorry
<RainCT> evil tab-completion ;)
<RainCT> slytherin: ^^
<norsetto> sebner: seriously, how would you feel about being able to upload what you want to the archive?
<slayton> RainCT: on np
<slytherin> RainCT: thanks, for some reason I didn't have that file. I just reinstalled pbuilder
<ScottK> brandon|work: Pong
<brandon|work> ScottK, do you have an ETA on 0.93.3. being packaged?
<slayton> anybody know why hdf5 1.8 is not going to be packaged for Intrepid Ibex?
<ScottK> sgran the Debian maintainer is out of town until tomorrow.  Probably later this week.
<brandon|work> alright, thanks
<ScottK> brandon|work: There are no security fixes in 0.93.2/3, so there's not a huge rush.
<sebner> norsetto: :) DktrKranz always tells me that if I have the right to upload that doesn't mean that I *must* use it. And if I'm not sure with some thing I would ask somebody. However I respect your opinion on me also when you comment in this way if I apply somewhen. Though it'll be strange since that I know that many motu's would/will give me an ACK. then is the question how I handle your critism
<sebner> RainCT: I'll upload in a few minutes. ready for a readvocate?
<brandon|work> yeah, but the engine has been improved quite a bit supposedly (it is faster in my tests)
<slytherin> slayton: who said so?
<Amaranth> hmm, anyone know if having your arm feel like it's going numb while typing is a bad thing? :/
<laga> Amaranth: RSI?
<Amaranth> probably
<geser> slytherin: do you remember the correct fix for a not found jni.h? see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15623388/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.libjdic-java_0.0.20060613-8_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> I remember it was something simple but not what it was. I guess a additional/changed build-dependency.
<Iulian> I have uploaded a package named salasaga to revu but it doesn't show up. Any revu admin to check?
<devfil> Iulian: you should wait a bit
<devfil> Iulian: when have you uploaded it?
<Iulian> devfil: I'm waiting for about 2 hours.
<devfil> Iulian: this is very strange, try to reupload it
<Iulian> I can't because it says it's already uploaded.
<laga> dput -f
<ScottK> Iulian: rm the .upload file.
<slytherin> geser:IIRC, You need to ad some variable in rules file
<Iulian> ScottK: I'm afraid I don't have that file. (Could not write /var/cache/pbuilder/result/salasaga_0.8.0~alpha3-0ubuntu1_i386.upload), forgot to use sudo.
<Iulian> ScottK: It's ok now.
<Iulian> laga: Thanks
<ScottK> Ah.
<jpds> Iulian: Don't upload binaries.
<ScottK> Yeah.  That too.
<ScottK> Unless it's for Debian.
<laga> does debian allow that?
<geser> slytherin: could that be 'CFLAGS="-I/usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj/include"'? Found it in some old accepted mails where I fixed that in the past.
<slytherin> geser: I think so. You can confirm in libgtk-java or libcairo-java source
<vorian> thanks guys :)
<geser> slytherin: thanks
<slytherin> geser: welcome. :-)
<jpds> rock on vorian !
<vorian> :)
<tseliot> ï»¿RainCT: I'm here
<Festor> Someone could revise my packages?
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gendesign
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-desktop-integration
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-transparent
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lh-abc
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=rarcrack
<Festor> and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ted-tv
<slytherin> can anyone tell me which is faster out of virtualbox and qemu?
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> slytherin: probably virtualbox
<slytherin> Kopfgeldjaeger2: have you used both?
<Kopfgeldjaeger2> yes
<slytherin> Ok. So I will try virtualbox first.
<sebner> bug #246720
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246720 in libavg "libavg FTBFS due to missing b-d on liba52-0.7.4-dev" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246720
<geser> sebner: the right fix is to use pkg-config instead of ffmpeg-config
<sebner> geser: now ScottK will kill you xD
<geser> me checks again
<geser> yes, libavg uses ffmpeg-config which is obsolete and will be removed in the next ffmpeg-free upload
<ScottK> geser: I was testing him in PM.
<sebner> geser: as I said ;)
<geser> how should I know that?
<sebner> geser: hrhr. np
<sebner> geser: I have to fix that and you upload it then, ok?
<geser> sebner: what was the question/task ScottK give you?
<sebner> geser: hmm. is the debdiff ok
<geser> sebner: next time PM ubottu instead of doing it in the channel :)
<sebner> hrhr
<sebner> geser: I told him that we need query bots :P
 * Laney notices his bug and quivers
<geser> sebner: without me spoiling it, what would have been your answer to ScottK's question?
<Laney> bag
<Laney> bah*
<Laney> thanks geser
<sebner> gn8 folks
<null_vector> What's the suggested way to skip pysupport?  python-minimock is FTBFS because it uses "--before pysupport" and pysupport isn't installed.
<norsetto> null_vector: then install it
<null_vector> norsetto: Seems a waste to add pysupport to build-deps just so you can skip it
<norsetto> null_vector: why is it checking if it is installed and then skip it!?
<apachelogger> norsetto: hey, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=hitori doesn't have an rpath here
<norsetto> null_vector: and on top of that fails to build if something which will anyhow skip is not there ...
<apachelogger> norsetto: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26032/
<norsetto> apachelogger: thats what lintian is telling me, go and talk to her if you are not happy ;-)
<apachelogger> norsetto: hardy lintian?
<norsetto> apachelogger: nope, intrepid
<apachelogger> norsetto: http://paste.ubuntu.com/26033/
<apachelogger> doesn't here
 * apachelogger finds that very strange
<null_vector> norsetto: I've never seen it installed this way.  I'm not familiar with calling dh directly.
<norsetto> null_vector: do you want to paste something we can look at? I quite frankly don't understand what is the problem you are talking about
<null_vector> norsetto: sorry about that.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/26035/
<norsetto> apachelogger: W: hitori: binary-or-shlib-defines-rpath ./usr/games/hitori /usr/lib
<Laney> Hopefully my next ffmpeg-transition-related bug will be correct :<
<norsetto> null_vector: first time I see anything like that
<Iulian> If anyone have some spare time and would like to review a package, please have a look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=salasaga (it's an IDE for producing eLearning).
<norsetto> null_vector: I guess thats new debhelper syntax
<null_vector> norsetto: I'm just going to add python-support as a dependency to get it to build =/
<geser> norsetto: dh is debhelper 7, but just all I know about it.
<geser> it's like cdbs
<norsetto> geser: yes, I'm reading the man page right know, pretty funky stuff
<tester_> I am trying to get Apache2 mod_dbd driver to install, and having problems.  I am unsure if I need to add a .load file to the mods-available to get it to load the DBDriver mysql driver (apr_dbd_mysql.so).
<norsetto> null_vector: that was uploaded in binary format to debian, so, no build logs available, could very well be a bug in the package
<apachelogger> norsetto: can you please run chrpath on the binary
<apachelogger> maybe lintian is just bogus
<RainCT> tester_: #ubuntu or #ubuntu-server may be better places to ask
<tester_> RainCT, one of the folks there explaind it was a bug. (ikonia) and to ask you guys for help with it.
<tester_> RainCT, should I go back there then?
<RainCT> tester_: ah, dunno then
<mouz> Would some developer like to review my patch for bug 246106?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246106 in revu-tools "revu-tools say lintian is never happy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246106
<norsetto> null_vector: from what I'm reading, you should not have to install pysupport, those lines are meant to be the way to make debhelper skip the pysupport calls with the pycentral ones
<null_vector> norsetto: That was my understanding too.  But it never brings up the topic of what happens when the before or after clause isn't installed
<norsetto> null_vector: yes, there should be a way to disable the pysupport call
<norsetto> apachelogger: hitori: RPATH=/usr/lib
 * null_vector goes home.
<RainCT> good night
<apachelogger> norsetto: maybe lintian used black magic ;-)
<apachelogger> well, let's talk to sebner tomorrow
<norsetto> apachelogger: the bitch ;-)
<apachelogger> norsetto: lintian or sebner? :P
<norsetto> apachelogger: you naughty you :-)
<apachelogger> hehe
<norsetto> got the )@*$+@)@$* bugger
<nedko> when is revu keyring updated?
<devfil> nedko: you should ask for it
<devfil> in this chan
<nedko> ok, i do then
<nedko> however site says it is updated once a day
<devfil> but you can ask here for it
<nedko> yes i do ask
<devfil> someone can update keyrings on revu please?
<wgrant> nedko, devfil: Doing so.
<devfil> thanks wgrant :)
<norsetto> this place is filled with revu admins ;-)
<wgrant> It will take a few minutes - I'll inform you when it's done.
<wgrant> norsetto: But you never sleep.
<norsetto> wgrant: sleep is for the meek
<norsetto> jgasgj[jgs2v
<nedko> thanks
<norsetto> ops sorry, I think I might have hit the keyboard with my head for a second
<devfil> norsetto: lol
<geser> norsetto: go to bed then
<norsetto> geser: are you implying I'm a meek?
 * norsetto checks what a meek actually is
<RAOF> Hm.  I'm going to need to touch xserver-xgl again.  A lot of people are accidentally using it, because they installed it in Edgy or something when many people actually needed it for compiz, but it's buggy and crap.
<norsetto> oh gosh I'M a meek!
<norsetto> goodnight :-)
<RAOF> I think I'll try for a whitelist of cards that could possibly want Xgl, and refuse to start on anything else.  That list is going to be {nvidia-glx-legacy}.  Any comments?
<wgrant> nedko: It's done.
<nedko> wgrant: thanks
<wgrant> RAOF: Does that driver need Xgl?
<RAOF> wgrant: Yes.  I think it's the only one that does.
<nedko> hmm
<RAOF> nvidia-glx-legacy is the 7xxx series driver, which is before they implemented texture_from_pixmap.
<wgrant> IMO we shouldn't keep it around at all, but I guess some people might get annoyed.
<nedko> i dont see my key in there
<nedko> or http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/uploaders.gpg is not the same file?
<RAOF> wgrant: Right.  It'd be lovely to drop it, but it does do something useful.
<wgrant> nedko: Are you sure you joined revu-uploaders, and have the key associated with your Launchpad account?
<wgrant> What's the name on your key?
<wgrant> (and your LP username)
 * wgrant has to leave now - sorry.
<dushara> hi
<nedko> yes I'm in revu uploaders team, i have key associated with my launchpad account. my lp username is nedko
<nedko> name on my key should be Nedko Arnaudov
<geser> RAOF: the nvidia packages are going to be renamed soon, so wait for the new package names if you don't want to touch it again
<RAOF> geser: Right.  I was aware of some movement on that front.
<RAOF> But the driver names aren't really important - I just need to be able to distinguish versions of the nvidia driver in a running system.
<nedko> are there other revu admins here?
<dushara> Q: I'm getting "Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field" with the version in changelog set to "0.3.4-0ubuntu1". Any ideas?
<emgent> hello
#ubuntu-motu 2008-07-09
<nedko> i've got my package uploaded to ftp://revu.tauware.de/incoming/ shouldnt it go to somewhere else automatically?
<nedko> if my key is not in the keyring what should i expect to happen?
<nedko> in revu uploaders keyring
<nedko> aha!, it needs time :]
<vorian> nedko: yes, about 10 minutes or so
<nedko> any idea how to check whether my encrypting subkey is ElGamal one?
<emgent> night.
<ion_> Anyone feel like reviewing http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=compcache-setup? :-)
<RAOF> ion_: Haven't you and ogra been back-and-forthing in #ubuntu-devel about that?
<ogra> RAOF, only for the part thats in initramfs
<ogra> thats the one for hardcore hackers :)
<RAOF> Right.
<ogra> for normal users there should be a config tool
<ion_> The version of compcache-setup i uploaded interacts with the compcache changes that were implemented to initramfs-tools.
<ogra> ion_, i'll drop an eye tomorrow (and update the coment thing, sorry missed that) but i got a conf call in 4h and need to sleep a bit before :)
<ion_> Alright :-)
<dhude> hello
<dhude> I just read about this on ubuntu planet
<RAOF> asac: Is there a reason why the gnash 0.8.3 merge is sitting on MoM?
<RAOF> asac: Or, in other words, mind if I grab that merge?  I want the newer gnash :)
<RAOF> asac: Or, perhaps a better question.  Why has Ubuntu's gnash pacakge not been mereged from Debian since gutsy :)
<TheMuso> .c
<RAOF> Hmph.  I think I know why gnash hasn't been merged since gutsy.  It takes that long to build.
<ion_> :-D
<mouz> Would somebody mind doing a second review on my packaging of stjerm (a light weight terminal emulator)? Bug 216603, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=stjerm. Thanks :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 216603 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] stjerm" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216603
<dholbach> good morning
<Iulian> Good morning Daniel.
<dholbach> hiya Iulian
<mouz> ey dholbach I decided to do bugsquad stuff for a while. I believe it is a good way to learn about the development procedures and such :)
<dholbach> mouz: that sounds great! :-)
<dholbach> keep it up!
<Festor> Anybody can review my packages?
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gendesign
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-desktop-integration
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-transparent
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lh-abc
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=rarcrack
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ted-tv
<Festor> hi?
<RAOF> Yeah, we're here.  Just busy :)
<Festor> ok.. :/
<\sh> grmpf.
<\sh> looks like I can't even attend the next UDS :(
<RAOF> :(
<\sh> because it's in the US :(
<\sh> why can't google move to canada?
<RAOF> And you're not allowed back in, not after the incident with the mule?
<\sh> hehe...nope...until they don't change laws and until they are treating visitors as guests and not as criminals
<Iulian> OT: Does anyone know what "Deine Schuld" means?
<dholbach> "your fault"
<Iulian> dholbach: Ah cool, thanks. Btw Die Ãrzte rocks ;-)
<dholbach> Iulian: it's been a while since I last listened to anything they wrote :)
<dholbach> like 13 years or something :)
<Iulian> Hehe, wow.
<\sh> dholbach: oh "Die Ãrzte"
<\sh> The last time I saw them live was during the "Kiss" reunion concert in dortmund 1996 or so
<\sh> oh more fun...dns attack scenario...
<YokoZar> I want to sync a package that's in Debian's new archive (libtorrent-rasterbar was just added to Debian).  The requestsync tool complains that it doesn't appear to be a package within Debian.
<YokoZar> Should I do this manually, or is there something else I should do?
<RAOF> YokoZar: Is it out of NEW yet?
<YokoZar> RAOF: no.  How long does that take?
<RAOF> GAH!  Allow me to read your actual question more thoroughly :)
<RAOF> An indeterminate period of time.  And it need not make it out of NEW at all.
<RAOF> I think a couple of weeks is a fairly reasonable upper bound.
<RAOF> Presumably you want to sync it so that one of the hojilion torrent apps which include their own copy of (some) libtorrent can be built against the external lib?
<YokoZar> RAOF: Yes, namely a new package I'm making
<RAOF> If so, I believe standard practice is to copy the package from NEW, append a ~build1 or somesuch, and upload.
<YokoZar> RAOF: no sync request needed?
<RAOF> No.  I don't think we can sync from NEW.
<YokoZar> RAOF: I guess I need to manually change the maintainer and such to MOTU
<YokoZar> Which is handled nicely when someone else is doing the syncing ;)
<RAOF> Not for fakesyncs, which is what this is.
<YokoZar> oh
<YokoZar> Nice, that's even easier :)
<dushara> hi all
<dushara> ï»¿Q: I'm getting "Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field" with the version in changelog set to "0.3.4-0ubuntu1". Any ideas?
<StevenK> dushara: You need to follow the DebianMaintainerSpec
<dushara> StevenK: Even though this is ubuntu native?
<StevenK> Hmm.
<StevenK> It can be ignored
<dushara> What I meant by Ubuntu native is that I'm packing my own sw from scratch... so -0ubuntu1 in the end is correct isn't it?
<Iulian> dushara: Yes, it's correct.
<Festor> One question: all Edgy error-related could be deleted?
<Iulian> Festor: What do you mean by "could be deleted"?
<Festor> Iulian, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eclipse/+bug/77390
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 77390 in eclipse "Edgy synaptic eclipse 3.2.1 internal update doesn't work" [Undecided,New]
<Festor> because: http://lwn.net/Articles/274910/
<Iulian> Festor: It cannot be deleted. It will be in Launchpad forever.
<Iulian> Festor: I think it should be closed but not sure.
<RAOF> We might want to mark it as invalid, yes.
<Festor> Sorry, I mean invalid no deleted
<Iulian> Riddell: Giver -2 is now in Sid. Please have a look at #246863
<hefe_bia> Hi MOTUs, I have a question: Where do I have to put application icons? /usr/share/icons or /usr/share/pixmaps?
<Festor> /usr/share/pixmaps
<hefe_bia> thanks. So I did it right :)
<luisbg> what can I do if I am packaging something for Hardy that depends on a version of a library that isnt in Hardy and just in Gutsy?
<hefe_bia> luisbg: Are you sure it isn't there? Maybe it has been renamed because of an API change?
<luisbg> hefe_bia, libdb4.2-java
<luisbg> it isnt backwords compatible
<luisbg> hardy has 4.5 and 4.6, gutsy has 4.2 and 4.4
<luisbg> if it was renamed how can I look for it?
<wgrant> luisbg: You make it work with the newer one.
<luisbg> wgrant, library isnt backwords compatible
<wgrant> Even so.
<hefe_bia> wgrant: the java packages have been dropped entirely
<hefe_bia> See http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/d/db4.2/db4.2_4.2.52+dfsg-4/changelog
<hefe_bia> I don't know a solution
<wgrant> You could always not use Java :P
<luisbg> hefe_bia, why have they been dropped?
<luisbg> wgrant, I am just packaging this piece of software... months of work in an engineering team, they wont change it all now
<luisbg> I don't understand why Java has been dropped
<wgrant> The Debian maintainer apparently didn't bother to document that rather important change.
<wgrant> Check for bugs on it, I guess.
<luisbg> isnt this a huge regression?
<hefe_bia> I'd say so
<luisbg> :(
<hefe_bia> You should report a bug against the package (or maybe it is already there)
<hefe_bia> Maybe also to the Debain BTS
<hefe_bia> At least that should clarify why Java has been dropped
<luisbg> BTS?
<hefe_bia> Bug Tracking System
<luisbg> ok
<sebner> luisbg: bugs.debian.org
<luisbg> cant find the launchpad page of the ubuntu package to see if there is something commented there
<hefe_bia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu and then search for db4.2
<hefe_bia> Or https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/db4.2
<luisbg> hefe_bia, not there... just ruby one
<hefe_bia> The java packages belong to the db4.2 source package
<luisbg> true, sorry
<hefe_bia> Have to head for work now. If there are MOTUs here it would be great if you could have a look at my packages:
<hefe_bia> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tomboy-blogposter
<hefe_bia> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gebabbel
<\sh> vorian: welcome on board :)
<vorian> thanks \sh :)
<zul> !revu
<ubottu> REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
<nedko> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=jack-audio-connection-kit
<mouz> vorian thanks for advocating stjerm :)
<mouz> i will take your suggestion
<vorian> the package was great
<Iulian> mouz: It would be great to get stjerm in Debian too. It's a very nice tool.
<Iulian> mouz: Is the upstream active?
<mouz> Iulian: IMO there are better alternatives ;)
<mouz> yakuake, tilda. both are in lenny
<mouz> but whether upstream is responsive needs to (and will be) tested soon
<bluefoxicy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/InrepidDesktopEffects  Uh guys?  :P
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> i've a problem with cdbs
<goshawk> it seems that it does not call make install
<goshawk> but just make
<goshawk> http://www.pastebin.ca/1066658
<Iulian> If anyone has some spare time and would like to review a package - http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=salasaga (it's an IDE for producing eLearning).
<goshawk> maybe i solved that problem...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi geser
<Iulian> Hello bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi Iulian
<mouz> Would someone like to review my patch for bug 246106? Thanks :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246106 in revu-tools "revu-tools say lintian is never happy" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246106
<jpds> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=irssi-plugin-otr <- vorian
<vorian> :)
<bliZZardz> quick Q : how do i find the version of a package installed in my system?
<jpds> bliZZardz: dpkg --status <package> | grep Verion
<jpds> Version*
<bliZZardz> got it..thanks
<Festor> Anybody can review my packages?
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gendesign
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-desktop-integration
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-transparent
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lh-abc
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=rarcrack
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=ted-tv
<null_vector> Anyone willing to look at the patch on #
<vorian> :o
<null_vector> #246406
<bliZZardz> bug 246406
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246406 in yap "FTBFS in Intrepid. No mode in open call" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246406
 * Hobbsee mumbles something about the sponsorship queue
 * Hobbsee mumbles something else about the second link in the topic, which talks about the sponsorship queue, among other things.
 * Festor is sad....
<slytherin> Festor: Have patience
<Festor> ... how much?
<laga> about 200ccm
<Festor> xD
<slytherin> Festor: lot of. That is all I have to say. :-)
<null_vector> I say that because I had to add -fno-stack-protector but I don't know if there's a better way to handle that.
<geser> emgent: hi, how familiar are you with the hardening done in Ubuntu?
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<sebner> huhu sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi sebner
<sistpoty|work> Iulian: looks like you did a binary upload (salasaga) to revu which is stuck in the rejected queue. please upload only source packages to revu, thanks
<emgent> geser: pong, I'm a contributor in this group. But i worked primarly in ubuntu security.
<emgent> geser: and auditing/pt
<geser> emgent: ok, you don't know by coincidence if adding -fno-stack-protector is a correct fix for problems with the stack protection?
<Iulian> sistpoty|work: I did upload a source package but first I uploaded the binary one.
<emgent> geser: no I'm not, sorry
<sistpoty|work> Iulian: ah, ok. binary package -> removed ;)
<emgent> geser: feel free to ask in #ubuntu-hardened
<geser> null_vector: ^^ for your question about -fno-stack-protector
<Iulian> sistpoty|work: Okay. I didn't know that revu don't accept binary packages. Sorry
<sistpoty|work> Iulian: no problem, was not more hassle than a rm command ;)
<Iulian> Cool then.
<null_vector> thanks geser
<sistpoty|work> nedko: seems like there
<sistpoty|work> nedko: + is also a binary upload from you (jack-audio-kit) on revu
<sistpoty|work> or jack-audio-connection-kit, to be precise
<nedko> sistpoty|work: i think that may be my first attempt, i need to clean it, where it is?
<sistpoty|work> nedko: it's stuck in the rejected queue (I've just deleted it)...
<nedko> ah, nice and thanks
<sistpoty|work> nedko: to create a source package instead of a binary one, you'll need to pass -S (for source package) and -sa (to include the .orig.tar.gz) to dpkg-buildpackage / debuild
<sistpoty|work> np
<nedko> yes i got that after my first attempt
<sistpoty|work> heh
<nedko> i got impression that dput will not allow it and i acted bold
<nedko> "Please do not upload unsigned source or binary packages. The allow_unsigned_uploads = 0 in the [revu] stanza in dput.cf should be enforcing this anyway."
<nedko> "Uploads to REVU should only be signed source files, with the original tarball."
<nedko> i misread the text
<nedko> i have misread
<null_vector> is there any kind of a pastebin script?
<sistpoty|work> null_vector: maybe in package pastebinit?
<gnomefreak> pastebinit is the script i thought. there is also webboard
 * sistpoty|work heads home now... cya
<null_vector> wow, didn't think something like that would have it's own package
<slytherin> null_vector: I find webboard easier. It automaticallies copy content from clipboard, then you can just clock a button and once it is done the url is in clipboard for you to paste it anywhere.
<null_vector> I'm in screen right and needed a buildlog
<gnomefreak> slackwarelife1: pastebinit is easier since you give it a file and it gives you an address
 * gnomefreak pastebinit /etc/apt/sources.list and poof it gives me link to it
<null_vector> thanks
<gnomefreak> np
<Laney> geser: Are you happy with my response on bug #246720?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246720 in libavg "libavg FTBFS due to missing b-d on liba52-0.7.4-dev" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246720
<emgent> hello
<geser> Laney: waiting is one option, but it would be nice if we could fix it before the next ffmpeg-free upload
<Laney> geser: Well the maintainer seems to be happy to do that, so I don't know if it's worth carrying a delta that he's already said isn't necessary
<geser> Laney: we could add a small delta which could be dropped on the next occasion again
<Laney> geser: OK then, I'll do that
<Laney> Although I don't know whether it could be considered "small" given the re-autotoolise required ;)
<geser> Laney: I'd probably just patch configure and make sure that the check for ffmpeg-config fails, e.g. let it check for ffmpeg-config-obsolete which is definitely not there
<Laney> oh ok
<leleobhz> how is the best way to make symlinks in a package?
<Laney> leleobhz: dh_link
<leleobhz> like busybox links (ls > /bin/busybox ls)
<Laney> geser: Uploaded fix to the bug, hope it's ok now
<geser> Laney: thanks, will upload it once I'm back home
<leleobhz> can i request a package sync with debian?
<leleobhz> (have a package that exists in debian but not in ubuntu)
<geser> sure, file a sync request and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<goshawk> hi
<slytherin> goshawk: hi
<goshawk> i've uploaded a package to revu
<goshawk> hoe much time should i wait until i'll see it in revu.taware.de?
<goshawk> s/how/how
<slytherin> goshawk: when did you upload it?
<slytherin> goshawk: and which package?
<goshawk> package dsss
<goshawk> uploaded just 5 minutees ago
<slytherin> goshawk: it usually takes 10-15 minutes
<goshawk> ok thanks
 * goshawk reads SponsorshipProcess wiki page
<goshawk> 44 minutes have been passed.... in revu.tauware.de the is not the dsss package...
<goshawk> any idea?
<slytherin> goshawk: what command did you use to upload the package?
<goshawk> dput revu mypackage........changes
<goshawk> dput answers: Successfully uploaded packages.
<goshawk> it's my first package
<goshawk> it's signed with my gpg key
<slytherin> goshawk: is your public key already synced in revu keyring?
<goshawk> ubuntu keyring.. yes
<goshawk> my account in launchpad has it enabled
<slytherin> goshawk: what is ubuntu keyring?
<goshawk> keyserver.ubuntu.com
<slytherin> goshawk: no, not that. Are you part of https://edge.launchpad.net/~revu-uploaders ?
<RainCT> goshawk: is your account in LP group revu-uploaders?
<slytherin> I mean member of
<goshawk> no i'm not
<goshawk> signing
<goshawk> oops joining
<goshawk> no
<goshawk> i'm already a member
<goshawk> joined on 2006-08-14
<goshawk> uhm... if i try to login to revu.tauware.de with username and password from launchpad it does not login
<slytherin> goshawk: revu doesn't use launchpad user/pass
<Se7h> hello all
<slytherin> goshawk: ï»¿see if you got any mail on your mail id about upload failure.
<Se7h> motu's: python-mmpython package needs fixing
<slytherin> goshawk: and for login to revu, use you email id with blank password and then on next page generate a password.
<slytherin> Se7h: File a bug.
<goshawk> slytherin: no, no mails either on spam folder
<Se7h> slytherin where can i do that? mmpython lp home, or what?
<slytherin> Se7h: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mmpython
<Se7h> hum, i might take a look at interprid mmpython source to check if it's fixed already
<Festor> Anybody can review my packages?
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gendesign
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-desktop-integration
<slytherin> goshawk: can't help much, I am not a developer
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=amsn-transparent
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=lh-abc
<Festor> and
<Festor> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=rarcrack
<Festor> please...
<slytherin> Festor: Please don't put review request here everyday
<Festor> slytherin, no?
<Festor> and then when?
<slytherin> Festor: You upload to revu and just be patient. When someone has time, they will be reviewed
<bdrung> why does building a package needs so long? xmms2 0.5 was published in intrepid two day ago and there  is no binary package available.
<bdrung> vorian: ping
<vorian> bdrung: hi
<slytherin> bdrung: check build logs on launchpad. AFAIK, it fails to build
<bdrung> vorian: i saw you marked bug #179828 as fix released.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 179828 in esperanza "no man page for 'esperanza'" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179828
<vorian> ah, meant to mark "in progress"
<bdrung> vorian: is this version already committed?
<vorian> thanks for pointing that out
<slytherin> bdrung: I was wrong about xmms2, it is built
<vorian> bdrung: it was merged, and bumped
<bdrung> vorian: have a look at bug #246299
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246299 in gxmms2 "[intrepid] Rebuild with xmms2 0.5 DrLecter" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246299
<slytherin> bdrung: The xmms2 binaries are waiting in 'NEW' queue for review.
<slytherin> bdrung: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue
<tjaalton> siretart: vdr-plugin-xineliboutput could've been synced, since vdr-dev already exports those flags :)
<vorian> bdrung: how old was the source you were working with, most of those changes have already been committed
<tjaalton> siretart: the new one I merged today
<bdrung> vorian: about which package are you talkingÃ
<bdrung> -?+?
<bdrung> -Ã+? i mean
<Yasumoto> can someone take a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tftp-hpa/+bug/73233
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 73233 in tftp-hpa "no ipv6 support (use udp4 in inetd.conf)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tjaalton> siretart: anyway, no big deal
<Yasumoto> I submitted a debdiff, and want to double-check that it's correct. thanks :)
<geser> Yasumoto: please add "(LP: #73233)" to your changelog entry so the bug gets automatically closed when it gets uploaded
<geser> besides this your debdiff looks ok
<geser> subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to that bug when you're ready
<Yasumoto> geser: ah, kk
<Yasumoto> geser: thank you
<Yasumoto> Updated and subscribed
<ScottK> gnomefreak: For your Flash Plugin backports, please get me a list with version and revision of the neede packages for Gutsy and Hardy.  Make sure they match what is in Intrepid.  Also attach any needed debdiffs (are there any?)
<gnomefreak> ScottK: you want versions of the uploaded packages and debdiffs>?
<gnomefreak> thats alot of debdiffs ;)
<gnomefreak> version in gutsy diffed against intrepid version with backport revision is gonna be huge for one not to mention all 8 or so from gutsy+hardy
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Debdiffs needed, if any, for the Intrepid packages when being uploaded.
<ScottK> Not gutsy -> intrepid, but intrepid -> gutsy-backports
<ScottK> None needed if all that needs changing is the revision.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: oh ok thats easy no change other than libflashsupport
<gnomefreak> for gutsy
<ScottK> But I want a list of the package, version, and revision
<gnomefreak> addded changelog entry for all and only libflashsupport for gutsy changed anything
<gnomefreak> i know i can do that but they dont have gutsys revision since archive admins do the pushing and they change it anyway
<gnomefreak> with thier scripts or selves or however they do it
<gnomefreak> so what i give you isnt final gutsy or hardy
<gnomefreak> ScottK: there isnt anything i can do with Gutsy's anyway and that is the only change that needed to be done since crimsun said he would worry about pulse and since libflashsupport depends on libpulse we would need to find out what he is going to do. I packaged the minimum that i needed to to test on this system. hardy had no changes and doesnt need pulse backported unless crimsun is going to do it for hardy as well as gutsy
<gnomefreak> i hope that ended with the word gutsy
<ScottK> It did.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> How about a list for Hardy then?
<gnomefreak> ScottK: ok
<gnomefreak> ScottK: since im tried i posted the last 2 changelogs one intrepid and one backport of flash and libflash but i need to go laydown and hopfully fall asleep
<gnomefreak> ill do debdiffs tomorrow if you need them
<nedko> what is correct way to update package uploaded to revu?
<Laney> nedko: dput it again
<nedko> ok, thanks
<sebner> gn8 folks
 * nedko is looking for reviewers/advocates of hisjack-audio-connection-kit_1.9.x packages
#ubuntu-motu 2008-07-10
<Syntux> Good evening
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> i've a problem with revu... i've uploaded my first package more than 5 hours ago, but i cannot see it in the revu page
<goshawk> can somebody help me_
<goshawk> ?
<goshawk> i've uploaded it again
<goshawk> ah i've found the problem
<cesar_bo> Hello All, I am learning to package, I have a question, When I create a package, I use on the maintener field, latin characters: as Ã± and Ã©, using gdebi it outputs bad.
<cesar_bo> theres is a way to use the latin characters, to output well ?
<slangasek> cesar_bo: for all fields in debian/control, you should use the UTF-8 encoding
<slangasek> but I don't know if gdebi supports display of non-ASCII characters, it could be a gdebi bug
<cesar_bo> ï»¿slangasek: Well I don't know if I am using utf-8 on the control file
<cesar_bo> I would look, thanks very much
<slangasek> cesar_bo: a simple commandline check is to run: iconv -futf-8 -t ucs-2le < debian/control > /dev/null
<cesar_bo> ï»¿slangasek: thanks, it prints bad as on gdebi
<slangasek> cesar_bo: hmm?  that check won't print anything except an error message
<cesar_bo> the <ï»¿> are necesary ? :D
<luisbg> can somebody please kick my other nick? sorry about that
<cesar_bo> doing that, outputs no error: mariocesar@dedalo:/~/lidios-0.1/debian$ iconv -futf-8 -t ucs-2le < control > /dev/null
<slangasek> cesar_bo: right, then it's a gdebi bug
<cesar_bo> ï»¿slangasek: well thanks
<cesar_bo> ï»¿slangasek: There is the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gdebi/+bug/109907 thanks again :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 109907 in gdebi "Unicode characters not shown correctly" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<slangasek> no problem
<Drk_Guy> Hi guys!
<Drk_Guy> I wanto to kick in this group to help out
<Drk_Guy> I already signed the CoC, but can't find an option to go in
<RAOF> Right.  That's because anyone can help. :)
<RAOF> Anything in particular you'd like to do?
<Drk_Guy> Packaging
<Drk_Guy> Specially, rare software, or with special patch's or fixes
<Drk_Guy> For example, Wine + 3DMark
<RAOF> Wine + 3dmark?
<Drk_Guy> I'm now compiling official winehq's sources with that patch, to test it and upload it to my PPA
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, it makes wine spoof some of it's characterirstics so more games will run
<RAOF> Right.  That's not going to be very useful on the MOTU front, but may be useful for other things.
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Although it won't modify anything else
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, I mean, i can try to package anything you ask for, and have my PPA for non-MOTU soft
<RAOF> The way to get that into the official Ubuntu packgaes would be to file a bug against the Wine package, attach the patch, and give some justification.
<Drk_Guy> Anyway, it's not a bug, so it won't just fit
<RAOF> Particularly: is it likely to be accepted into wine mainline?  If not, why not, and why should we go against upstream.
<Drk_Guy> I would use my PPA instead
<RAOF> Sounds like the bug is "Some games don't run under wine"
<RAOF> And this patch fixes that bug.  Right?
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Actually, they run, but they will whine about DX errors, this patch spoofs wine's capabilities so games run better
<RAOF> Do they actually run better, or do they just report fewer warnings?  If the former, that's something we may want to have in the official packages.
<RAOF> Just because it doesn't result in a program failing to work doesn't mean it's not a bug.
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, I mean, w/o the patch, games like CoD 4 won't run
<Drk_Guy> :)
<RAOF> Right.  So that's _definitely_ a bug.
<Drk_Guy> Still, that patch has been available since 9.* branch, but it hasn't been applied to upstream
<Drk_Guy> Why?, dont ask me
<emgent> `morning
<Drk_Guy> night
<Drk_Guy> lol
<RAOF> Drk_Guy: So, there's probably a reason why it isn't applied.  Either that reason isn't good (such as: no one's actually _asked_ the wine devs to apply it - again, attach to upstream bug), or there _is_ a good reason :)
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, maybe it is worth asking in #winehq
<RAOF> Right.
<RAOF> The aim is to get the fix out to the maximum number of people - so the best place is upstream.  The second best place is in the official Ubuntu repositories, and a PPA runs a distant third :)
<Drk_Guy> Gonna research about PPA by now
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Maybe creating a fork, wine3dmark and wine
<Drk_Guy> ;)
<Drk_Guy> guys
<Drk_Guy> I have an issue
<Drk_Guy> I just created my PPA, but it is 404
<Drk_Guy> Is it normal?
<RAOF> No, but you probably want to ask in #launchpad about PPA issues.
<Drk_Guy> Ok
<Drk_Guy> is there a command for generating the special date format of changelog file?
<Drk_Guy> debian/changelog
<crimsun> date -R
<Drk_Guy> Thx
<Drk_Guy> Does debuild clean the compile dir?
<Jazzva> Drk_Guy, if you're building from Debian source package, running "./debian/rules clean" might help. If you're building from source, then try "./make clean", it should work.
<null_vector>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<Drk_Guy> Jazzva, I don't want to recompile
<Drk_Guy> ;)
<Drk_Guy> It's just a lil changelog change
<Drk_Guy> Anyway, gonna try to make a deb tomorrow
<Drk_Guy> Thanks for help
<Drk_Guy> GTG
<rootvzla> hi elkbuntu
<rootvzla> :p
<rootvzla> hi sladen
<rootvzla> >_< slangasek
<rootvzla> :p
<kgoetz> hi all. is there a script to replace Maintainer: with me, and set XS-Original-Maintainer: to the old Maintainer: value?
<null_vector> kgoetz: update-maintainer
<kgoetz> null_vector: cheers.
<kgoetz> is it in devscripts?
<null_vector> ubunutu-dev-tools
<kgoetz> thanks mate
<null_vector> np
<nxvl> soren: ping
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> hi dholbach
<dholbach> hi nxvl
<bliZZardz> dholbach : Guetan tag
<dholbach> hi bliZZardz: Guten Tag!
<Iulian> Morning Daniel
 * Iulian yawns
<dholbach> heya Iulian!
<kgoetz> its not posable to use dget on an LP PPA (because the .dsc and .gz will be saved in different locations). should i file a bug against devscripts or LP? i'm thinking the latter.
<dholbach> kgoetz: there's dgetlp in ubuntu-dev-tools
<kgoetz> dholbach: thanks, i'll use that.
<dholbach> kgoetz: OR use dget on http://ppa.launchpad.net/5-a-day/ubuntu/pool/main/f/five-a-day/
<nxvl> or use apt-get source
<kgoetz> nxvl: would involve sources.list changing and updating package lists and similar annoyance.
<nxvl> well, yes, but if you have it already not
<nxvl> :D
<kgoetz> dholbach: hm. well i have the dgetlp. thanks for that :)
<Hobbsee> there's already a bug on it
<Hobbsee> i think they said they were going to fix it fairly soon, months ago
<dholbach> Laney: hi - what about those ffmpeg sponsoring bugs? are you going to add patches too?
<siretart> does anyone have some overview how much fallout/breakage the new ffmpeg package caused?
<siretart> AFAIK, main is cleared already, and most of universe, at least for packages from debian
<Laney> siretart: There are a few more FTBFS that I haven't done yet, will get you a list after work later
<siretart> Laney: thanks
<Laney> dholbach: geser did a load of them and I'll attach patches for the rest if he doesn't plan on doing those one
<Laney> s
<dholbach> Laney: excellent!
 * dholbach just triaged a bunch of bugs in the sponsoring queue
<Laney> Hm, is the sponsors queue moving slowly ATM? I've had some merges awaiting for some weeks now
<persia> Laney: Yes, it's moving slowly just now.
<Laney> persia: OK, no worries. So am I to be honest, just started a new job
<Laney> ...which I have to leave for now. Have a good day all
<persia> Laney: Have a good day.
 * Hobbsee wonders why dholbach is light blue.
 * Hobbsee ponders doing something on the sponsorship queue
<Hellow> i am wondering, has anyone contributed a package for Perl?
<RAOF> Which particular perl?
<Hellow> 5.10.0
<RAOF> Yes.
<Hellow> o, ok
<jml> Hobbsee: dholbach isn't light blue to me.
<RAOF> Various pieces of absolutely core Debian infrastructure depend on perl.  It's well maintained :)
<Hellow> ah, ok
<RAOF> (In fact, I think it's currently breaking Etch->Lenny upgrades in some cases ;))
<RAOF> Heh.  Kmos mass-closed all the xmms bugs in debian.
<Iulian> Uhh
<Hobbsee> RAOF: you're not surprised, are you
<Hobbsee> ?
<RAOF> Not really.  It's just interesting to run into.
<dholbach> because xmms was removed from sid
<RAOF> Yeah.  The remark wasn't really intended to indicate my approval or disapproval.  Just surprise at seeing a familiar name :)
<Hobbsee> i'm surprised they dont' make all bugs stay until it falls out of all supported releases
<RAOF> We have surprisingly few xmms bugs, actually.
<RAOF> Oh, including one against Xmms2.  Whoops :)
<StevenK> Hobbsee: Debian usually don't.
<Hobbsee> ah
<dushara> Hello
<dushara> Why does lintian generate the "native-package-with-dash-version" warning when the version has -0ubuntu1 appended at the end?
<RAOF> Because you don't have an orig.tar.gz?
<huats> morning dear MOTUs and contributors :)
<jpds> Morning.
<dushara> RAOF: oh umm... I used dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot as suggested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU (this is my own app). How do I generate orig.tar.gz?
<RAOF> dushara: What should generally be done is: you grab a copy of the software that you want to package.  This will generally be distributed as a tarball (.tar.gz, or .tar.bz2, or whatever).
<RAOF> To build the Debian package, you take this (upstream) tarball, unpack it, and add a debian/ directory.
<RAOF> So, in the case of your own software, you probably want to distribute it more widely than just Ubuntu, right?
<dushara> yes
<RAOF> In order to do that you basically want to release the code in some useful way.  A .tar.gz is the canonical way.
<dushara> Yes I've got tge .tar.gz. I created a debian dir within the extracted tar.gz with the version postfix etc. Then I entered the command I showed earlier. Have I missed a step?
<jpds> dushara: Rename the tarball to packageName_version.orig.tar.gz
<dushara> jpds: ok thanks
<huats> emgent: congrats !!!
<emgent> huats: thanks
<Iulian> Congrats emgent.
<emgent> Iulian: thanks :)
<\sh> emgent: congratulations...rocking news :)
<emgent> \sh: thanks :)
<sebner> emgent: congratulations!!!! \o/  great mate
<emgent> sebner: thanks
<vorian> congrats emgent :)
<emgent> vorian: thanks :)
<kgoetz> wd :)
<slytherin> emgent: Congratulations. Security ... must be tough work. ï»¿:-)
<slytherin> Does anyone have any idea how much usually a package takes to clear from 'NEW" queue?
<jpds> slytherin: At least a week I think.
<Hobbsee> depends when someone deals with ti
<emgent> slytherin: :)
 * kgoetz giggls and pokes Hobbsee at teh queue
<slytherin> Hobbsee: What if another new version review is waiting for a package in queue. Can I poke someone about it?
<persia> slytherin: You can ask "archive-admins: Please NEW $(packagename) to allow an update of $(depending package)" in #ubuntu-devel.  If that doesn't work, you can look up today's archive-admin on the wiki, and highlight them directly.
<slytherin> persia: Thanks, will try
<dushara> hi all
<dushara> Just uploaded pkg to REVU. What happens now?
<Festor> dushara, wait
<dushara> Fester: Cool.
<Festor> dushara, Festor... no Fester.. xD
<dushara> Oops sorry :-D
<Festor> Does anyone know what this means?
<Festor> "N: 1 tag overridden (1 warning)"
 * persia welcomes vorian to the U-U-S team
<Festor> I get to run the lintian
<broonie> Festor: Assuming that's lintian output it means that there's an override file.
<broonie> Festor: and it overrode 1 warning.
<Festor> Is there any way to locate it?
<Festor> 	
<Festor> I do not understand the problem very well. This is the first time I see this warning
<sebner> emgent: you have to join too \o/
<jpds> Festor: Look in the debian dir for an lintian file.
<Festor> yes, there is a folder called lintian
<emgent> sebner: i know :)
<emgent> sebner: persia mailed :)
<jpds> Festor: That's probably where the override is.
<Festor> ops, wait
<persia> emgent: Most people ask for U-U-S here.  Mailing me takes longer :p
<emgent> persia: hehe np :)
<sebner> emgent: hrhr.
<Festor> thanks jpds I found the problem
<persia> emgent: Now go sponsor some stuff :)
<jpds> Festor: You're welcome.
<vorian> ha
<emgent> persia: hahaha
<sebner> emgent: now go and upload eggdrop :P
<RAOF> What's the average time people wait for a response for an updated debdiff while doing the U-U-S dance?
<norsetto> Anyone here feeling an hero? If you are brave enough to test an hardy-proposed fix, head to bug 242635.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 242635 in trousers "The package cannot be removed if the daemon fails to start" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/242635
<persia> RAOF: For me, depends on the issue.  In many cases, if it's trivial, and someone doesn't respond to an IRC ping within a couple hours, I just fix it and upload.
<warp10> norsetto: I felt an hero indeed, but It was an easy one :)
<norsetto> warp10: you cheat, being a medical doctor you know the tricks of the trade, its not fair ;-)
 * warp10 0:-)
<norsetto> lol
<norsetto> warp10: thanks for checking that out, much appreciated
<impi226> here i am ;-)
<warp10> norsetto: my pleasure! :)
<impi226> :-)
<norsetto> impi226: shoot, we are all ears (and somebody is all nose too)
<impi226> my problem is that i do not really know how good my skills are and how i can contribute to ubuntu
<norsetto> impi226: what is it you want to do? Help with translation, triaging bugs, helping to manage the universe repo?
<impi226> my best skills are php, mysql (webdevelopment), but i am also working on and very interested in getting skills programming c++ & java...
<norsetto> impi226: perhaps you should read a bit about how we develop ubuntu, I think this should help you to clarify things
<impi226> in what extend "about how we develop ubuntu"?
<norsetto> impi226: did you go through this wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment ?
<impi226> i read it.
<impi226> but there is no real starting point saying "contact that person, and he will help you getting involved"
<impi226> or i don't read intently enough :-)
<norsetto> impi226: there is no such person
<norsetto> impi226: but there are such persons, right here
<impi226> thats the matter why i am here...
<impi226> but i have to go to lunch now...
<impi226> my workmate is waiting ;-)
<impi226> so long...
<norsetto> impi226: guten appetit then
 * norsetto goes to lunch too, his stomach is waiting
<Iulian> How often is http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ updated?
<persia> Iulian: Every few hours.  If you fix something, please leave the bug number in a comment.
<Iulian> persia: Sure, thanks.
<persia> Iulian: Said differently, everything in RCbugs generally deserves an LP bug.  It's not so important now, but as the freezes come, RC bugs helps provide justification for freeze exceptions (although the pressure to backport the fix increases).  Also, many of those might affect Hardy, and may deserve an SRU (although it depends on the specific RC bug).
<Iulian> persia: Yea, sure, I will have a look at them though.
<RainCT> emgent: congrats :)
<ScottK> emgent: Congratulations.  Use the power wisely...
<Hobbsee> QUICK!  UPLOAD CRACK!!!
<emgent> ScottK: RainCT thanks :)
<null_vector> morning
<udienz-> morning null_vector
<slytherin> RC bugs page is not correct at least in one respect. cairo-java has same version as Debian, still it is listed on page.
<\sh> sebner: hey, you are famous now :) reading p.g.o ;)
<Iulian> slytherin: Many Ubuntu packages has the same version as the ones from Debian.
<slytherin> Iulian: Then hwo to correct list on that page?
<norsetto> null_vector: any news about that dh thing?
<Iulian> slytherin: I don't know. persia says that it's updating every few hours.
<sebner> \sh: hrhr. didn't know that he is on the planet
<sebner> \sh: but please, no photos xD
<null_vector> norsetto: Yeah, it doesn't work without pysupport installed as is.  If you remove that bit and have pysupport installed, it doesn't work.
<\sh> sebner: :)
<null_vector> norsetto: That's why it was a binary upload in debian
<sebner> \sh: but thanks for the hint :)
<norsetto> null_vector: ok, please prepare a patch for Ubuntu then, so that we get it out of the way
<null_vector> norsetto: ok
<impi226> back :-)
<null_vector> norsetto: You want to make python-support a dependency?
<null_vector> *build-dep
<norsetto> null_vector: no need, with my patch it builds and installs with just pycentral
<null_vector> norsetto: alright
<norsetto> null_vector: you are using pbuilder I hope?
<null_vector> norsetto: yes
<norsetto> null_vector: good
<null_vector> norsetto: Where's the patch?
<norsetto> null_vector: in my email, its not a patch, its how rules looks now (practically, you delete the after/before and leave one line only)
<RainCT> siretart: did you see my msg yesterday?
<null_vector> norsetto: bug 247275
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247275 in python-minimock "FTBFS in intrepid." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247275
<norsetto> null_vector: ok, thanks, its on my todo list
<huats> norsetto: !
<huats> !!
<huats> :)
<huats> how are you ?
<norsetto> huats!!!
<huats> i went to talk to mrevell about the reception mailing list
<huats> apparently we need to talk to jorge about that
<huats> ...
<huats> to fasten a bit the process...
<norsetto> huats: to speed up :-)
<norsetto> huats: unless you want to tie jorge down and abuse him ;-)
<huats> exactly
<huats> ;)
<huats> sure
<huats> (about speed up)
 * norsetto was scared for a moment
<huats> ;)
<norsetto> jcastro: (wodoo voice) jcastro, if you can hear us, please give us a sign
<null_vector> Anything that needs special attention or just go back to FTBFS?
<norsetto> huats: do you think we should sacrifice a cock?
<huats> :)
<huats> coq
<huats> ::)
<norsetto> null_vector: you are doing an amazing work with ftbfs, you want to continue or do you want to do something else?
<null_vector> norsetto: no that's fine and thanks
<norsetto> null_vector: thanks to you
<impi226> norsetto: first off i will carry on reading the ubuntu wiki... is there any use for a php programmer with medium c++ skills and the declared intention doing everything for improving ubuntu? ;-)
<norsetto> impi226: everyone is welcome, we can do with all the possible skills
<norsetto> impi226: if your interest is mainly in php, you ould help a lot just by triaging php specific bugs
<norsetto> impi226: s/ould/could
<impi226> norsetto: but how can my php skills help improving ubuntu? ;-)
<impi226> norsetto: i don't think there are much websites to be coded....
<norsetto> impi226: as an example, give a look at bug 87333
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 87333 in php-mail-mime "get notice about returning variables" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87333
<ScottK> impi226: True, but if you have a lot of experience in php, you could probably help a lot with triage of php package bugs.
<norsetto> impi226: this is the kind of bugs where your expertise could help us
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<impi226> norsetto: okay... that sounds good for me...
<norsetto> impi226: if you go to this page: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search?text=php you will see 298 packages which are related to php
 * norsetto bows to supermaster sistpoty|work
<sistpoty|work> hi norsetto
<sistpoty|work> (and no, I'm no supermaster :P)
 * norsetto checks again sistpoty|work and wonders what the big S on his chest means
<sistpoty|work> norsetto: S is for Stefan *g*
<norsetto> *g*
<jcastro> norsetto: you looking for me?
<norsetto> jcastro: is that a De Niro voice?
<jcastro> heh
<persia> That'd be s/for/at/ :)
<norsetto> jcastro: I was told by huats (who has been told by mrevell) that we should plead and beg you to have our team mailing list approved (thats mentoring-reception team)
<jcastro> norsetto: we're blocking on IS tickets.
<persia> jcastro: If you are the right person, this is one team that's been without a mailing list for over a year, and could really use one.
<norsetto> persia: yes, the haircut gave him away :-)
<persia> :)
<jcastro> norsetto: once we finish with guadec we're going to london and fixing lists is like, a top priority
<jcastro> norsetto: (I share your frustration) :)
<jcastro> persia: the queue for mailing lists is full of fail on our side
<norsetto> jcastro: that would be cool, we are waiting since a week and we really miss the list now that we have a full team
<jcastro> norsetto: only a week!
 * norsetto swear against himself for giving up so easily
<norsetto> jcastro: did I say a week? Sorry I meant a year
<persia> More than.  It's been since last April or so, hasn't it?
<norsetto> persia: april of last year, yes
<jcastro> norsetto: you have my promise that I will escalate your issue. :D
<norsetto> jcastro: now, don't close by saying "I'll be back" ...
<jcastro> norsetto: I have to go now, can you do me a favor and forward me any correspondance you've had with us wrt. your list?
<jcastro> jorge@ubuntu.com
<jcastro> we've been waiting for the mailing list tickets to get approved since last uds. :-/
 * persia pokes dholbach to help contribute prehistory
<norsetto> jcastro: sure, thanks for helping, next time I see you at an UDS I will let persia hug you
<persia> Now there's a dangerous offer :)
<norsetto> persia: lol
<gaspa> zzz.... =.o
<gaspa> hi norsetto
<norsetto> gaspa: morning
<gaspa> persia: i'm still working on that nbs page, don't think that i dismissed it. (just too busy and a lot of mishaps)
<persia> gaspa: No worries.  There's a new channel where people are gathering to work on such tools: #ubuntu-quality.
<gaspa> ah,wow.
<huats> jcastro: thanks !
<huats> and enjoy your guadec
<huats> !
<null_vector> Is PATH_MAX defined somewhere in Linux?  I thought that was Windows only.
<sistpoty|work> null_vector: yes, it is
<null_vector> sistypost: thanks, then it's the gcc4.3 prob
<bdrung> null_vector: for gcc 4.3 you have to inlude <limits.h>
<bdrung> or <climits> for c++
<impi226> mmmh
<impi226> : [1.396031] BUG: unable to handle kernel
<impi226> interpid alpha 1
<persia> impi226: That's the trick with running the development release: it's usually broken in a few ways :(
<impi226> persia: yes, but directly after the bootscreen? :-D
<persia> impi226: All sorts of times: depends on which packages are broken that day, or what transition is underway.
<impi226> persia: maybe because i'm at work (running windows, big sorry!!!) and trying to run it in sun xvm virtualbox
<impi226> ?
<persia> Maybe.  Report a bug.
<impi226> okay
<nixternal> persia: you have any non-raid hot swap (sata drives) experience with linux?
<nixternal> thus far, everything seems to be about raid
<nixternal> I know our controller supports hot swapping, but when you pull a mounted drive out, all hell breaks loose
<persia> nixternal: Nope.  All my non-raid hotswap experience is old enough to have been SCSI (and I don't have any current test equipment).
<nixternal> ya, same here
<persia> That said, back then, you had to stop the filesystem before you unplugged the drive.
<persia> I suspect this is still the case.
<persia> If it still crashes after being unmounted, that'd be a bug.
<nixternal> ya, warm swapping when not in raid
<nixternal> I can warm swap all day long
<persia> You want to hot-swap when not in raid?  That's not supposed to work.
<persia> I suppose you could turn off all caching, and disable the VM layer, and have a chance, but...
<sistpoty|work> hm... that would still lead to the question with what you want to swap the drive?
 * persia suspects a non-broken drive to replace the failed one
<sistpoty|work> but where should it get the contents from?
<null_vector> How do you disable certain checks in lintian?
<sistpoty|work> null_vector: you can provide overrides, or just use a brain filter when looking at the output
<null_vector> sistypoty: They are actual errors keeping it from building, like non-stripped binarys.  But those binaries are explicitly skipped in dh_strip.
<sistpoty|work> null_vector: lintian errors keep it from building?
<sistpoty|work> null_vector: and there's also the question, why these binaries are not stripped (problems with pitti's -dbg magic?)
<null_vector> sistpoty: nvm, sorry. slow this morning
<sistpoty|work> heh
<null_vector> per changelog: http://pastebin/ubuntu.com/26477
<sistpoty|work> ugh. nice. sounds like deep crack (but of course that's no news in regards to a bootloader *g*)
<impi226> persia: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/247293 ;-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247293 in ubuntu "BUG: unable to handle kernel" [Undecided,New]
<dholbach> persia: prehistory about what exactly?
<norsetto> sebner: you should add the scrollkeeper dependency though
<norsetto> dholbach: prehistory of the mentoring-reception :-)
<persia> dholbach: Any ancient correspondence about mentoring reception that might help jorge get the mailing list created.
<dholbach> which mailing list? one for the mentoring-reception?
<norsetto> dholbach: I'm trying to get a team mailing list, so, if tehre was any request made by you, it could help
<dholbach> no, there wasn't
<norsetto> boo
<persia> -ECHANNEL
<norsetto> err, heya gang?
<Iulian> :)
<sebner> norsetto: dependency or b-d ?
<persia> norsetto: That's it!
<norsetto> phew ...
<bddebian> Heya gang
<Iulian> Here it is ;)
<persia> Ah.  Right.  Capital 'H'
<bddebian> Hi norsetto, persia, Iulian, sebner :)
<sebner> hi bddebian
<sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
 * sebner is sad. He doesn't have 3d and sound xD
<Iulian> 'lo
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
<kgoetz> bddebian: hi mate
<bddebian> Heya kgoetz
<kgoetz> :)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: have you got 3d and sound? ^^
<norsetto> sebner: who is going to register the documentation with scrollkeeper?
<sebner> norsetto: dh_scrollkeeper?
<norsetto> sebner: no, thats an helper to add appropriate snippets in the maintainers scripts
<norsetto> sebner: those snippets will register the docs, so, who needs scrollkeeper?
<sebner> norsetto: gnome-doc-utils?
<norsetto> sebner: b-d are needed in the buildd, deps are needed on the user's machine, who, according to you, needs to register docs with scrollkeeper?
<sebner> norsetto: ah xD user
<norsetto> sebner: right!
 * sebner is confused of 2 hours trying to fix 3d and sound xD
<sebner> norsetto: anything else? :)
<norsetto> sebner: once you upload that I will check everything once again, and if its ok just advocate
<sebner> norsetto: k, I'll do that now
<sistpoty|work> sebner: here at work: yes, though I don't really have too much use for both *g*
<sebner> sistpoty|work: old or new kernel?
<sistpoty|work> sebner: 2.6.22-15-generic (gutsy system)
<sebner> sistpoty|work: xD intrepid! intrepid!
<sistpoty|work> sebner: I need to do work when at work, not fix ubuntu *g*
<sebner> bah
<sebner> xD
 * sebner thinks he brokes his system xD
<norsetto> sebner: any reason why you use debhelper 7?
<sebner> norsetto: ehm not backportable ...
<norsetto> sebner: :-)
<sebner> norsetto: yes, we talked about it :)
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<norsetto> sebner: I won't block it, but next time I would like you to think about it, if there is no reason to use a particular version, than don't just because its the latest
<Iulian> If anyone has some spare time and would like to review a package, you may have a look at salasaga which is uploaded to revu. (it's an IDE for development of eLearning).
<sebner> norsetto: yeah I know, we discussed that with cairo ;)
<norsetto> sebner: yep
<norsetto> sebner: ok, advocated, now find another slave to do your dirty work :-)
 * sebner hugs norsetto 
 * norsetto hugs sebner back
<sebner> DktrKranz: mind uploading hitori on revu? ;)
<DktrKranz> sebner: so I'm the SOTU? Slave Of The Universe?
<geser> DktrKranz: more a SOTS :)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: more like a SOTS ...
<sebner> xD xD xD
<DktrKranz> sebner: you know... 150 euros
<DktrKranz> oh, it's NEW... more money \o/
<sebner> DktrKranz: add a 0
<sebner> hrhr
<norsetto> geser: care to shake fingers?
<DktrKranz> sebner: unluckily I can't do anything right now, I'm on stable, but I'll have a look this evening, ping me for the reminder
<sebner> DktrKranz: kay =)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: stableboy ...
<norsetto> huats: did you receive my last email, from this morning?
<DktrKranz> norsetto: at work, I just can't have testing or unstable :P
<Hobbsee> DktrKranz: no, you're YPB.
<Hobbsee> bonus points if you've seen the flowchart reference.
<huats> yep
<DktrKranz> it's a great thing we have three etch in place
<huats> but i just read it very quickly
<norsetto> huats: okki
<DktrKranz> Hobbsee: YPB?
<huats> norsetto: let me have a closer look now
<Hobbsee> DktrKranz: "you poor bastard"
<DktrKranz> Hobbsee: s/poor/racist/ usually :)
<norsetto> huats: pls. read it carefully, I really think we ought to do something
<Hobbsee> not for the blame flowchart that i saw.
<Hobbsee> :)
<norsetto> Hobbsee: don't talk with that Padano pls.
<Hobbsee> ?
<DktrKranz> norsetto: do you want a bit of fog?
<DktrKranz> we have tons
<norsetto> Hobbsee: people from Padania, that bit of Italy lost in the fogs of the north
<gaspa> DktrKranz: you can weigh fog?
<gaspa> norsetto: it's not "a bit" ...
<norsetto> gaspa: well, the most insignificant one anyway ;-)
<DktrKranz> gaspa: I can cut it with a knife
 * gaspa don't think so :)
<norsetto> gaspa: I lost two sisters to you, one now talks with an accent from Milan, ah, the horror
<DktrKranz> norsetto: mmmh. You're lucky no people from Milan here :)
<norsetto> DktrKranz: they are all here now, enjoying their hard deserved (or so they say) holidays
<DktrKranz> norsetto: more traffic on Raccordo then :).
<norsetto> DktrKranz: walking is faster
<huats> norsetto: I think it is very interesting (the proposal from persia)
<norsetto> huats: it is
<huats> i really like the idea of various track and regular meeting
 * persia suggests #ubuntu-classroom as a good forum for this discussion, as pleia2 is usually there and interested.
<huats> (I am just a bit unease with the ratio of 1/3 of attendance since it is very strict I think, by instance I will never be able to attend 1/3 of this meetings even if I am really interested)
<huats> persia: of let's go there
<goshawk> hi
<goshawk> does anybody know when the list of registered people that are able to upload to revu is updated?
<goshawk> in the Revu website it says once a day, but when? at 00:00 GTM?
<goshawk> oops
<ScottK> I think it's just done manually on request now.
<goshawk> GMT
<goshawk> ok... please can you do it?
<goshawk> because my key is expired
<goshawk> and i've uploaded a new one in launchpad
<goshawk> but in revu there is still the old one
<james_w> persia: it's your chance to sync the keyring
<jpds> I'm on it
<goshawk> thanks guys
<goshawk> :)
<sistpoty|work> hm... I'm getting slow *g*
 * persia is going at about normal speed :)
<sistpoty|work> heh
<jpds> So, we have three people trying to do the same thing? :)
<sebner> maybe the server breaks down xD
<sistpoty|work> jpds: no, I saw that you already wrote that you're on it, so I didn't login in the first place *g*
<goshawk> one very simple question... since it can be, why is it not done automatically once a day?
<sistpoty|work> goshawk: that would take the fun out of it to see who's faster *g*
<goshawk> sistpoty|work: now all get sense :)
<sebner> goshawk: you see the life of a motu is really a hard one *g*
<sistpoty|work> goshawk: honestly, I don't think there's anything against enabling automatic updates again, just noone did it yet
 * jpds runs the revu-key script
<goshawk> oki :)
<persia> jpds: It's that we all like to run it: it feels good to watch the keys scroll by :)
<DktrKranz> does anybody know if VM images for hardy (or intrepid) are available somewhere?
<goshawk> thanks guys, maybe it's time for my first upload :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: ask soren =)
<jpds> persia: I usually just "import" the key needed. :)
<persia> jpds: Awww.  That's not nearly as much fun.
<jpds> ..but faster.
<goshawk> how much time will take a package to be visible for reviews?
<Iulian> About 5 or 10 mins.
<goshawk> oki
<goshawk> jpds: is fun finished or is your screen full of fingerprint?
<goshawk> :)
<jpds> goshawk: the later.
<jpds> goshawk: Sync done; upload away.
<goshawk> yep sir!
<goshawk> Error '(104, 'Connection reset by peer')' during ftp transfer of dsss_0.75-1ubuntu1.tar.gz
<goshawk> arg
<azeem> that file looks like native-by-accident
<daRocha> hello
<daRocha> i want to contribute to ubuntu by helping in packaging and some bug fixing
<sistpoty|work> goshawk: I just manually cleaned the input queue and put back your old package, so you don't need to reupload again
<daRocha> i'll try to do my first package today
<goshawk> ok thanks
<daRocha> i'm reading some docs on how to do that
<sistpoty|work> jpds: btw.: you can do that too after a keyring sync... just mv all .changes files from /srv/uploads/rejected to /srv/uploads
<goshawk> sistpoty|work: i'll look at revu webpage waiting for dsss to be showed up
<sistpoty|work> jpds: (most land there due to missing keyring syncs, and the other half are binary uploads)
<orbisvicis> when pdebuild works it creates files in /var/cache/pbuilder/build, which is owned by root, even though pdebuild is run by user. How can this be ?
<jpds> sistpoty|work: I'll note it for next time :)
<sistpoty|work> :)
<orbisvicis> they might be created by fakeroot and not actually owned by root, but /var/cache/pbuilder is a root filesystem and fakeroot would have to be run a superuser, and then how would i be able to tell the difference between a fakeroot file and a normal file
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: fakeroot can't simply create a file as "root"... it just pretends to the process running under it, that the file is owned by root
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: any other process will see that it belongs to the user that started fakeroot
<orbisvicis> sistpoty|work, thats a relief
<orbisvicis> now how in the world does pdebuild create files in /var/cache/pbuilder/build as root ?
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: if it's run as root? (or setuid root?)
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: otherwise it can't
<orbisvicis> um setuid
<orbisvicis> no, niether pdebuild or pbuilder are setuid
<impi226> leisure-time... byebye ;-)
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: as I wrote, it can only create files as root, if it's run as root
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: and looking at pdebuild, it seems to use PBUILDERROOTCMD to gain root privs, which probably comes from /etc/pbuilderrc
<sebner> wuhu, sound is back :D
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: and for me that's set to sudo
<sistpoty|work> congrats sebner
<orbisvicis> sistpoty|work, same here .. but that means youd have to type in the root passwd anyway
<sebner> sistpoty|work: thanks. now intrepid rocks again xD
<orbisvicis> which i didnt do
<orbisvicis> ill log in/out, maybe its stored in mem somewhere
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: no, my sudo asks me for *my* pw, not for the root pw (and it keeps the tty-ticket for a while, so the next sudo call succeeds w.o. any further query)
<kirkland> emgent: ember: I have updated the xchat merge (bug #246330)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246330 in xchat "Merge xchat from Debian unstable -> 2.8.6-2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246330
<kirkland> ember: I add the patch you suggested, and fixed the problem that dholbach identified
<kirkland> I was not able to determine the problems that emgent raised with the xchat.desktop file not meeting the freedesktop specification
<kirkland> I politely request emgent to either identify the specific problems or supply a patch ;-)
<ember> kirkland run "desktop-file-validate /usr/share/applications/xchat.desktop"
<orbisvicis> sistpoty|work, that was it
<kirkland> ember: ah, that helps ;-)
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: :)
<ember> kirkland heh
<goshawk> ok people thanks... my package is on revu now, it's dsss, if someone have spare time, please review it :)
<kirkland> ember: i was reading a 20 page spec trying to figure out what was wrong when I said f-that ;-)
<persia> kirkland: We do try to supply tools to make life easier :)
<orbisvicis> sistpoty|work, what is you pbuilderrootcmd ?
<sebner> kirkland: you mean emgent not ember
<kirkland> sebner: ?
<ember> no sebner he really meant both of us
<kirkland> sebner: I'm talking to both of them right now ;-)
<sebner> kirkland: rofl I'm sorry xD
<sistpoty|work> orbisvicis: here it's set to sudo... at home, I call it as root (i.e. I rather use my own script which I call with sudo which in turn calls pdebuild and a few other things)
<kirkland> I'll use em*
<kirkland> ;-)
 * sistpoty|work heads home now... cya
<kirkland> emgent: ember: okay, fixed the desktop file issue, the depends issue, and added the patch you requested
<ember> kirkland cool thanks, i've sent the desktop fix upstream
<NCommander> hola
<jpds> hola NCommander
<norsetto> Hola a todo el mundo, olÃ©
<jpds> -e*
<norsetto> Hola a todo el mundo, olÃ©-e*
<sebner> O_o
<jpds> sebner: carry on with your eyes like that, and they'll get stuck like that forever.
<sebner> xD
<sebner> jpds: is it spanish? if yes, what did he say?
<kgoetz> o_0
<laga> hallo an die ganze welt, olÃ©
<sebner> laga: thx
<norsetto> sebner: carry on with that mouse open and you'll eat plenty of flies
<sebner> norsetto: yam yam
<laga> mouse?
<sebner> mouth
<norsetto> laga: boca :-)
<laga> heh
<NCommander> jpds, what's up?
<RainCT> jpds: uhm?
<jpds> RainCT: ein?
<RainCT> xD
<jpds> NCommander: not much.
<NCommander> jpds, I know that feeling
<hefe_bia> Anybody in the mood to take a look at one or two packages on REVU?
<norsetto> sebner: why don't you give a look at hefe_bia package? I 'm sure he will appreciate it
<sebner> norsetto: /me != motu O_o
<norsetto> sebner: everybody can comment on REVU, I'll help you if you want
<sebner> norsetto: ok, quick review or hardcore review? since I've not the experience to know how to start a review
<hefe_bia> Well if you want, here are the links:
<hefe_bia> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=tomboy-blogposter
<hefe_bia> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=gebabbel
<hefe_bia> tomboy-blogposter has been reviewed before. So it's only a few issues left
<norsetto> sebner: as you feel
<sebner> hefe_bia: norsetto I'll look at gebabbel <-- sounds funny
<hefe_bia> sebner: :) It's a GPS tool
<sebner> xD
<sebner> kay
<sebner> hefe_bia: ah I see your comment =)
<jpds> hefe_bia: You've edited files outside of the debian/ directory in t-blogposter (tomboy-blogposter-0.4.2/Makefile)
<sebner> norsetto: README.Debian seems not that important to me
<hefe_bia> jpds: Is this not allowed? Better use a patch system?
<norsetto> sebner: well, the known issue perhaps is relevant
<jpds> hefe_bia: Better use a patch system.
<sebner> norsetto: can't that be put into the manpage?
<norsetto> sebner: if its a workaround for a bug, that would not be appropriate
<jpds> hefe_bia: "The Debian packaging... is licensed under the LGPL" - which version of the LGPL?
<hefe_bia> norsetto: That's what I thought. I first had it in the manpage
<sebner> norsetto: why is it depending on itself? O_o
 * norsetto checks
<hefe_bia> jpds: It was meant to be the same license as the package itself.
<norsetto> sebner: its gpsbabel, not gebabbel
<hefe_bia> -package +program
<sebner> rofl
<sebner> xD
<sebner> sry
<sebner> norsetto: /me is confused today
<jpds> hefe_bia: Current Standards-Version is 3.8.0.1
<sebner> jpds: ah already *.1 O_o
<jpds> hefe_bia: You may wish to use debhelper (>= 6.0.0) and a compat level of 6.
<norsetto> jpds: we can safely omit the .1, I even think that lintian will complain about it
<sebner> norsetto: no. it *is* gebabbel
<norsetto> sebner: the dependency?
<sebner> norsetto: omg xD I'll ready now everything twice
<jpds> sebner: "I'll ready now everything twice" ?
<sebner> norsetto: Priority should be optional
<sebner> jpds: yes?
<norsetto> sebner: correct
<norsetto> sebner: what about the install location?
<sebner> norsetto: ah wait. how can I download that stuff xD
<norsetto> hefe_bia: what was in binincludes? Just traslations?
<norsetto> sebner: you can use dget
<sebner> norsetto: nice thanks
<norsetto> sebner: for instance in this case dget http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/gebabbel-0807082010/gebabbel_0.3~dfsg-0ubuntu1.dsc
<hefe_bia> norsetto: I did not remove binincludes, just the binincludes/gpsbabel* dirs. They were statically compiled versions of gpsbabel without proper documentation
<sebner> norsetto: ehm. yes I know ^^
<norsetto> hefe_bia: I see, I think that in principle, if they are build from the same source, they would not invalidate the gpl
<sebner> norsetto: you refer to the patch?
<norsetto> sebner: yes
<hefe_bia> norsetto: They are built from the gpsbabel source which is not included
<hefe_bia> I think they are just included for convenience
<norsetto> hefe_bia: ah, sorry, I see what you mean, yes, you are correct to remove them
<sebner> norsetto: well /bin is not that nice
<sebner> norsetto: there only things like "cp" ,"ls" should go
<norsetto> sebner: yes, where would one find a reference for what goes where?
<sebner> norsetto: debian policy
<sebner> hmm there is also a filesystem page
<slytherin> Does anyone know solution to this - cc1: warnings being treated as errors   cpproc.c: In function 'cpproc_forkAndExec':  cpproc.c:89: error: ignoring return value of 'chdir', declared with attribute warn_unused_result
<hefe_bia> sebner: It goes into /usr/bin. Isn't that right?
<null_vector> slytherin: remove the warnings as errors flag
<slytherin> null_vector: but where is that flag? I don't find it in rules file
<norsetto> slytherin: check what is in cpproc.c:89 and patch it accordingly to the error message
<hefe_bia> I thought that one would put /bin in the Makefile and then the packager can decide via DESTDIR whether it is put to /, /usr or /usr/local.
<hefe_bia> Did it that way so I could suggest the modification to upstream
<sebner> norsetto: I have to leave now. will be back in half an 20 minutes, ok?
<null_vector> norsetto: That's new in 4.3.  There's probably tons of errors if there's one.
<norsetto> null_vector: not necessarily, just check with a grep how many chdir there are. I just did one yesterday (for an fprintf) and there was only one.
<norsetto> sebner: ok, keep going, you are doing a good job
<norsetto> hefe_bia: your package installs only in /usr?
<hefe_bia> norsetto: yes, except application icons, desktop files, etc.
<RainCT> jpds: I don't remember who it was but a DD told me *not* to write the .1 for 3.8.0.1
<RainCT> ah norsetto already said this too :)
<jpds> RainCT: It's just an extra interger :p
<hefe_bia> jpds: I need the Makefile patched for the clean target, too. How do I do this best using a patch system?
<RainCT> hefe_bia: are you using cdbs?
<hefe_bia> RainCT: yes
<RainCT> hefe_bia: ok, add Â«include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mkÂ» to your debian/rules then, and create the patch with Â«cdbs-edit-patch patch_nameÂ»
<hefe_bia> RainCT: I have already created the patch with quilt. Patching is not the problem. Just usually the source is unpatched before clean.
<geser> RainCT: aren't the patches deapplies before "make clean" is called?
<RainCT> ah ok
<RainCT> right, /me hadn't understood the question
<RainCT> that happens if you read the log too fast... :P
<slytherin> norsetto: there is a function call and the return value is not assigned to any variable, so that is the error.
<geser> hefe_bia: iirc the easiest way to patch "make clean" is to ignore the patch system for these changes
<null_vector> When attaching a debdiff should I check the patch box?
<hefe_bia> geser: Hehe, jpds just told me to use a patch system ;)
<RainCT> null_vector: afaik no
<null_vector> RainCT: thanks
<slytherin> Does gcc 4.3 compiler with -Werror by default?
<slytherin> null_vector: no
<hefe_bia> However in this particular case the error from the original makefile is just ignored by cdbs. So should I change it at all?
<jpds> hefe_bia: quilt is a patch system (?)
<geser> hefe_bia: use a patch system for the remaining changes, it's a bit tricky to patch the Makefile for "clean" as the patches get un-applied before make clean is called
<null_vector> slytherin: no
<null_vector> slytherin: look for any -W* flags.  I think there's a security one that enables those.
<sebner> norsetto: oh thx ^^, so back now. Where to continue?
<hefe_bia> jpds: Yup. Some people don't like it - but I don't exactly know why...
<hefe_bia> geser: Ok, I'll do that.
<slytherin> null_vector: there is no such flag used in rules file. Iam taking a look at configure script
<null_vector> slytherin: Just grep for it
<null_vector> grep -r \\-W .
<slytherin> null_vector: found the problem. if no option is passed for --enable-Werror to configure script then it makes default yes in linux systems. So I have to explicitly pass --enable-Werror=no in rules file.
<orbisvicis> the sources/ dir is for adding extra files to the source ?
<orbisvicis> *the debian/sources dir when building a package
<hefe_bia> I have to leave for about an hour or so... Thanks for the help so far!
<slytherin> orbisvicis: why do you need to add extra files to source?
<orbisvicis> slytherin, i dont, but im wondering what the sources/ dir is for
<slytherin> orbisvicis: well, that I am not aware of. See if you find anything documented in changelog
<siretart> azeem: well, I do use the packaged version of sbuild, and it does that
<siretart> RainCT: yes, I did notice debexpo. I probably should find some time to poke at its code, right
<null_vector> Is sid still not using gcc 4.3?
<orbisvicis> slytherin, complicated package. seems all the cgi code was split from the original and shoved into debian/sources
<slytherin> :-)
<norsetto> null_vector: current gcc in unstable is (Debian 4.3.1-5) 4.3.1
<null_vector> norsetto: So none of this stuff is building on debian either?
<norsetto> null_vector: you can check current build logs in the package's PTS
<slytherin> xulrunner-1.9-dev is supposed to replace libxul-dev, right?
<geser> slytherin: I guess so, but better ask asac about it
<siretart> null_vector: the default compiler in debian is gcc 4.3 on most architectures. i386 happens to be not one of them
<geser> slytherin: what I've learnt about xulrunner is that I best keep away from packages using it if possible
<slytherin> geser: I was trying to merge classpath from debian and it fails to build where it is supposed to build gcjwebplugin. The problem seems to be that plugin related header files in xulrunner1.9-dev are at wrong path
<null_vector> Anyone know how to deal with "
<null_vector> damned screen
<null_vector> "inlining failed in call to "XXX": redefined extern inline functions are not considered for inlining"
<siretart> sounds rather like a warning than an error
<siretart> and that some programmer tried to be more clever than the compiler
<null_vector> It actually doesn't say error or warning, and just fails with that.
<null_vector> But yeah, the dev was trying to be clever
<siretart> generally, gcc prefixes every message with either 'error:' or 'warning:'
<null_vector> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/26519
<norsetto> siretart: I think I found a bug in ffmpeg-free
 * sebner hugs norsetto. Guess where my package is now ^^
 * siretart hugs norsetto anyways
<norsetto> siretart: you have disabled a52, but its still being called by ffmpeg-config
 * norsetto hugs siretart twice :-)
<norsetto> siretart: can that be?
<siretart> norsetto: oh, that is 'fix committed'. ffmpeg-config is so broken that it is already removed in debian, and will be gone in ubuntu by the next upload as well
<norsetto> siretart: ah, good to know :-)
<null_vector> that fixes a few FTBFS
<norsetto> siretart: so, all packages that use ffmpeg-config will now be broken!?
<siretart> it causes a few FTBFS. please fix packages to not use ffmpeg-config but pkg-config
<siretart> norsetto: correct
<norsetto> aarghhh
<null_vector> norsetto: they already are broken because they can't find -la52
<siretart> norsetto: do you have a list of affected packages?
<norsetto> null_vector: lol
<norsetto> siretart: I was just working on motion
<siretart> ah, if you have a fix, please mail it to 487920@bugs.debian.org
<norsetto> siretart: so, I guess the fix would be just to s/ffmpeg-config/pkg-config/ but let me check
<siretart> norsetto: more or less, yes
<norsetto> siretart: danke, much obliged
<siretart> we investigated the debian archive and found only 5 affected packages, with at least one of them being a false positive
<norsetto> siretart: well, motion ftbfs because misses a52 which is being called in by ffmpeg-config, so I guess that will be it
<null_vector> I'll run a script to grep all the buildlogs for -la52 error
<norsetto> null_vector: you won't find some of them though
<null_vector> norsetto: true
<geser> null_vector: check in which package ffmpeg-config was and then check all source package build-depending on it
<siretart> geser: that won't catch package that indirectly depend on libavutil-dev
<siretart> e.g. via libavcodec-dev, which is quite common
<null_vector> geser: How do you do a reverse build-dep search?
<norsetto> sebner: my wife asks that you stop hugging me or she will become jealous ;-)
<norsetto> siretart: yes, motion b-d on libavutil-dev
<sebner> norsetto: bah :P
<norsetto> null_vector: you can use apt-cache rdepends
<norsetto> hmmm, but that won't catch build-depends ....
<RainCT> norsetto: there's reverse-build-depends in ubuntu-dev-tools for the build-deps
<norsetto> RainCT: ah ok, good to know
<norsetto> null_vector: ^
<geser> siretart: wouldn't that be an error in the package if it needs ffmpeg-config but doesn't build-depend on libavutil-dev?
<null_vector> RainCT: nice
<siretart> geser: probably yes, but I don't really bother since those package FTBFS now anyway
<geser> geser: e.g. with reverse-build-depends from ubuntu-dev-tools or with grep-dctrl on the Sources list files
<geser> sebner: hug norsetto's wife too the next time :)
<RainCT> geser: ... Now you speak with yourself? ;)
<null_vector> Only 6 packages rbuild-dep on libavutil-dev
<sebner> geser: then norsetto becomes jealous :P
<norsetto> hehe
<geser> RainCT: argh
 * norsetto hugs norsetto
<norsetto> so there, onanists
<RainCT> uhm.. that's funny, I didn't remember that I wrote reverse-build-depends (just learned it by looking at the manpage) :P
<geser> norsetto: shouldn't you hug your wife, should you?
<warp10> norsetto: need for some more love?
<emgent> kirkland: nice work! :)
<kirkland> emgent: thx ;-)
 * norsetto hides in a corner and cry (silently)
<RainCT> python -c "import world; world.get_person('norsetto').unhide()"
<null_vector> And all of those that are broken are broken for other reasons
 * norsetto uses his anty-python shield and causes it to sigsegv
 * warp10 offers a candy to norsetto
<RainCT> norsetto: bah
<sebner> norsetto: emo emo emo :P
<RainCT> lol
 * RainCT looks at the crying norsetto, and would hug him if it wasn't because of his anti-python shield :P
 * norsetto won't be fooled again, and activate his tpm module too
 * ScottK hands norsetto some Perl to help him get lost in the code.
<norsetto> scottk: \(.*?\)[::word::]
 * ScottK wonders if that's good or bad?
<emgent> norsetto: i saw now your mail, big LOL!
<emgent> :)
<null_vector> Does _GNU_SOURCE have any licensing implications?
<norsetto> scottk: only larry would know ;-)
<norsetto> emgent: well, propose it to the ml ;)
<sebner> norsetto: now I'm going to annoy debian with hitori =)
<emgent> lol
<sebner> kees: I heart that you push packages from debian mentors to the archive ;)
<DktrKranz> sebner, asking a DD is 3.000 â¬
<emgent> hahah
<sebner> DktrKranz: uhh, seems that you are a lot cheaper =)
<DktrKranz> I'm not a DD :P
<sebner> I know :P
<siretart> DktrKranz: I'll do it for half the money ;)
<DktrKranz> siretart, I already did for half the money ;)
<geser> price dumping
<sebner> geser: see, everybody wants to do something for me :P
<geser> sebner: wait some more and you get it for 1Â¢
<sebner> hrhr
<DktrKranz> sebner, uploading packages is priceless, for the rest there is master****
<sebner> siretart: what about the first package is free. for your neighor? (germany -> austria) :D
<Drk_Guy> Ok, i'm going to let wine be my bet into MOTU sponsorship ;)
<sebner> *neighbor
<Drk_Guy> Any suggestions?
<siretart> sebner: depends on the package, I'd say ;)
<sebner> siretart: quite an easy one. something to play. http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-packages?action=details;package=hitori
<siretart> Please login first...
<siretart> hrmpf
<sebner> siretart: hmm?
<sebner> lol
<DktrKranz> sebner, it's not out of NEW and you want it in another NEW? impatient :)
<siretart> I don't feel like signing up for mentors.debian.net right now
<sebner> siretart: damn :P
<DktrKranz> siretart, no need, just dget
<sebner> DktrKranz: of course =)
<sebner> DktrKranz: pushing pushing pushing
<Drk_Guy> Guys, any ideas for MOTU sponsorship?, i really want to give the community something back
<sebner> Drk_Guy: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<Drk_Guy> K
<DktrKranz> Drk_Guy, for Wine-related stuff, you may ask YokoZar if he needs help in some packaging tasks
<Drk_Guy> Gonna check it, thx sebner
<Drk_Guy> DktrKranz, I'm packaging a patched wine
<Drk_Guy> DktrKranz, Have you read about the 3DMark patch?
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: what
<DktrKranz> No, I'm not involved in Wine development. Sorry
<Drk_Guy> Hi YokoZar, haven't you heard of 3DMark patch?
<siretart> Drk_Guy: have you considered helping upstream to integrate patches? - that time is usually much better invested than maintaining forks.
<Drk_Guy> Latest version for 1.1 was done in the ubuntu forums
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: Did it come out after 1.0?
<Drk_Guy> siretart, It's not really a fork, cuz it only changes two or tree lines of a single file
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Yup!
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: Is it in the 1.0.1 tree?
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: also, join #ubuntu-wine
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, not really, wine-devels must know about it, but for some reason, they don't want it on upstream
<YokoZar> Right, there are usually very good reasons for that, such as regression potential
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, If i had to report it to MOTU guys like you, i would fill a BUG
<siretart> Drk_Guy: perhaps you should ask them why, then.
<Drk_Guy> #winehq guys know nothing about the reason
<Drk_Guy> siretart,
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: #winehackers
<YokoZar> That's the devel channel
<Drk_Guy> I shall ask then
<YokoZar> Thanks.  Be aware that eEven simple patches to Wine can break things for other apps.  It's generally not a good idea to accept patches upstream has refused even if they make some program work, as regressions are a bigger problem.
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, I have no official news about 3DMark patch causing regressions, or errors, all programs work fine with it, and some apps like CoD 4 won't run w/o it
<Festor> Does anyone know about the eclipse package of Ubuntu?
<Drk_Guy> Festor, packages.ubuntu.com might help you
<siretart> Festor: launchpad.net knows, for sure.
<Festor> 	
<Festor> You have not understood me. I mean if someone worked on the package ever
<siretart> Festor: check the changelog?
<Festor> pochu is not here
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, They consider it as a hack, thus not allowing it into upstream
<Festor> and others are from Debian
<siretart> Drk_Guy: well, why do you think we should not trust upstream's assessment of that patch?
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: ï»¿stringfellow: well, it's safe in the sense that application that'll break because of it probably wouldn't have worked properly without it either
<siretart> Festor: try contacting them via email. that would be your fastest bet
<Festor> mmmh... ok...
<YokoZar> siretart: it's actually an interesting question with Wine, because Julliard will only commit patches that are "correct" in the long run.
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, They say it is a hack, but it is not know to cause regressions, anyway, apps working funny wouldn't work w7o it either
<Drk_Guy> w/o*
<nhandler> Festor: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-July/004189.html
<YokoZar> siretart: it's completely possible there will be a hack that makes some things work better, but is wrong, and doesn't break anything else (since that stuff was broken anyway)
<Festor> nhandler, thanks
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, I would say, it is good, it is a hack, but it ain't bad, anyway, we should make a different package for it
<YokoZar> siretart: for instance this is why WineHQ Wine sometimes differs from Crossover Office, which does integrate patches to fix the supported applications
<nhandler> np Festor
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, like wine and wine3D or something fashioned like that
<Festor> np? O.o
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: no sense forking the package, that's just confusing.  Either we merge it in or not.
<siretart> YokoZar: true
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, So, what do you think?
<nhandler> Festor, np=No Problem ;)
<Festor> ahh, ok :D
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: I think now that Wine 1.0 is out this is something we'll actually need to start doing (maintaining our own patch set rather than just waiting till release and using the latest Wine)
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, RAOF told me it would be like a bug in wine what 3DMark patch fixes
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, You may be right, ubuntu is known for adding patches to packages, which make them integrate with the desktop better, or make 'em work better, the case of 3DMark patch would be latter
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: We'll use the Ubuntu Wine team wiki page to document each patch like this and why it was added (eg make Call of Duty 4 work)
 * Drk_Guy is compiling Scott Ritchie's Wine 1.1.0 + 3DMark right now
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Getting precompiled DEB's for Wine + 3DMark is a lil bit hard, and compiling is not something we want newbies to do (at least IMHO)
<kirkland> Hi motu-  I have a small patch for which I need sponsorship: Bug #247389.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247389 in ecryptfs-utils "ecryptfs-utils build should not depend on libltspi" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247389
<emgent> kirkland: can i talk with you in query one moment?
<kirkland> emgent: si si
<emgent> nice :)
<LaserJock> everybody, Alpha 2 candidates are up on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com  Please help test them!!
<sebner> huhu LaserJock =)
<LaserJock> hi sebner
<Drk_Guy> Bug 247398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247398 in wine "Wine cannot run some games like CoD 4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247398
<Drk_Guy> Please check it out
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: What I'm telling you is if the patch really doesn't break things then it should be in the default deb, and if it does it shouldn't be in any deb
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Still, it is a hack, and thus, it is not allowed into upstream
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, But it should be into ubuntu's wine
<YokoZar> Yes that's what I'm saying.  If it's good it goes into Ubuntu Wine, and if it's not we don't put it in the official universe repo.  We're not going to confusingly split universe into Wine and Wine-callofduty4players versions
<YokoZar> So, yes, for things like this, post a bug report in launchpad, attach the patch, and then when committed we'll add it to a wiki page list (as well as the changelog and ~/debian/patches)
<YokoZar> Then when we update upstream versions (eg Wine 1.0 to 1.2) we reexamine every patch, hopefully dropping them
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Already posted bug
<Drk_Guy> Bug 247398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247398 in wine "Wine cannot run some games like CoD 4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247398
<norsetto> YokoZar: that hack looks awful
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Still, some games won't run w/o it, norsetto
<norsetto> YokoZar: it practically bypasses what the opengl driver its being told about the graphics card capability with arbitrary hardcoded values
<norsetto> Drk_Guy: well, too bad for those games, this is likely to break other 3d apps which might otherwise runs fine
<Drk_Guy> norsetto, i don't have regression notices because of using it ;)
<sebner> norsetto: you also have a package on debian mentors O_o
<norsetto> Drk_Guy: could very well be, does it mean there aren't?
<Drk_Guy> :S
<norsetto> Drk_Guy: and btw, it might be on your hardwrae, but certainly not on others, for instance you cripple all crads which have more than 8 texture units
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: You also don't have many users, keep in mind.  Wine has 800k users in Ubuntu.
<Drk_Guy> norsetto, anyway, that's why i'm making my PPA
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, I'm NOT forking wine, it is just a patch
<YokoZar> PPAs are fine
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: I was commenting on your earlier suggestion (which maybe I misunderstood) to have a separate "wine-d3d" package
<Drk_Guy> Maybe
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, It would be useful for testing, if wine-d3d won't work for you, use original wine
<Drk_Guy> :P
<norsetto> sebner: I have 3 packages in debian already and 2 on their way
<sebner> norsetto: cool =)
<Drk_Guy> Nice norsetto, really good packaging skills
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: testing is what PPAs are for
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, so, if my package performs well, is there any chance it gets into REVU/Universe?
<norsetto> Drk_Guy: I'm certainly not boasting my packaging skills, which are very poor to say the least, just answering a question
<Drk_Guy> norsetto, lol
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: If it's true the patch doesn't break anything then I'll merge the patch into the Wine package.  So, yes.
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, How could you test it, VM'ing?
<sebner> norsetto: pfff, don't be so self-deprecating
<Drk_Guy> If the package i'm building works fine, i'm going to upload it to PPA, so ppl can use it
<norsetto> sebner: just being honest
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Done making deb with debuild, succesfully builded and signed with ElGamal
<Drk_Guy> XD norsetto, there might be a great shiny future for you, don't deprecate yourself
<sebner> norsetto: when your skills are poor, what should I say? I have no skills? xD
<Drk_Guy> norsetto, it's true you need to face reality and tell the truth about your skills, but don't go that far
<Drk_Guy> Making your package into Debian is enough for me
<sebner> norsetto: now you are speechless :P would you mind reviewing another package for me tomorrow?
<norsetto> sebner: nope
<sebner> :)
<sebner> norsetto: I already fixed again a rpath issue =) <-- see, I'm not ignoring what you say ;)
<norsetto> sebner: thats what lintian says, not me ;-)
<sebner> norsetto: lintian doesn't tell me anything -.-
<norsetto> sebner: consider yourself luck :-)
<sebner> lol
<null_vector> If I need to patch a debian native package then just edit the source directly?
<sebner> norsetto: no, if lintian would tell you , you wouldn't need to tell me
<sebner> norsetto: argh. if lintian would tell *me*
<sebner> null_vector: shouldn't we always use a patch system?
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Notepad test made it seem to work, gonna test it with cod 4
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, it worked way smoother with Ritchie's mods to official source, and, way faster, considering i have FF3 open
<Laney> siretart: http://pastebin.com/f30d6e724 is the failed list (ffmpeg)
<Laney> the ones with bug numbers have been done
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: Huh?  I am Ritchie
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, WTF?
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Nice, sorry if i offended you
<Drk_Guy> :p
<sebner> lol
<Drk_Guy> I'm going to try-out a whishlist request, GNU/Linux Commander
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: Which two packages were you comparing exactly?
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Official source, and the one with your specifications
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: you mean comparing a hand compile to the .deb from ubuntu?
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Both are hand-compiled here, but the official one was make install'd, yours was compiled to a DEB
<ScottK> sebner: You around?
<sebner> ScottK: 5 minutes then I'm going to bed
<ScottK> sebner: Do you have VMs of Feisty/Gutsy?
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: Well my package doesn't have any changes from upstream, at least not to the Wine source itself.  So then the difference is almost surely whatever's in the debian/rules buildscript
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Maybe, but it ran a LOT faster, considering i had like 5 apps on bg
<sebner> ScottK: I had one for hardy and upgraded to intrepid xD, if it's not urgend I would create them tomorrow
<ScottK> sebner: If you could try the python test case in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=490217 and see if the port gets randomized in Feisty/Gutsy tomorrow, I'd really appreciate it.
<ubottu> Debian bug 490217 in python-dns "python-dns vulnerable to CVE-2008-1447 DNS source port guessable" [Grave,Open]
<Drk_Guy> Anyone here wants to help out making a whishlist deb?
<sebner> ScottK: of course, no problem =) mind sending me a mail. at this time my brain can't remember things that good usually xD
<ScottK> sebner: To what address?
<sebner> ScottK: sebner@ubuntu.com
 * sebner hopes that no spam bots are here xD
<sebner> ScottK: ah my sister has a feisty laptop so I just need a gutsy VM :D
<Drk_Guy> XD
<ScottK> Great.
<sebner> ok
<sebner> so gn8 folks =)
<ScottK> sebner: Gn8.  Mail sent.
<ScottK> Dear Launchpad: Please peddle faster.
<Drk_Guy> What should i do when a package won't come with authors, readme's or anything
<Drk_Guy> I only know it's gpl v1
<Drk_Guy> txt-0.1 is the program
<Drk_Guy> I'm trying to make a whishlist deb
<norsetto> ScottK: Dear Donald: Keep dreaming :-)
<norsetto> Drk_Guy: where is this package coming from?
<Drk_Guy> norsetto, Gonna give you URL, pls wait
<Drk_Guy> norsetto, http://gnulc.sourceforge.net/
<Drk_Guy> norsetto, It looks like it is dead and abandoned, i am debianizing latest version
<norsetto> Drk_Guy: are you making this for you?
<Drk_Guy> norsetto, As i mentioned earlier, it is a wish-list deb
<Drk_Guy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/95681
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 95681 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] GNU/Linux Commander" [Wishlist,In progress]
<norsetto> Drk_Guy: if its abandoned upstream I don't see the point in packaging it
<Drk_Guy> norsetto, It didn't take me so much time
<Drk_Guy> dev_scripts make everything easy
<Drk_Guy> I just have to re-read REVU docs on how to upload it and presto!
<Drk_Guy> Can anyone resync REVU's keyring?
<Drk_Guy> Please
<warp10> Hi all
<norsetto> heya warp10
<warp10> hey norsetto :)
<RoAkSoAx> Drk_Guy: i think that norsetto ment that if the development is dead and abandoned, it is useless to have it packaged and on the repos
<Drk_Guy> RoAkSoAx, Still, want to practice my packaging skills, and, if someone asked for it, and if it's easy, it should be done
<Drk_Guy> Uploading to REVU....
<RoAkSoAx> Drk_Guy: yeah but what i'm saying is that it is useless to have an abandoned program in the repos because the development of it is no longer going on...
<Drk_Guy> RoAkSoAx, One or two exceptions won't kill anybody ;)
<RoAkSoAx> Drk_Guy: for example, xmms has been deprecated and its no longer on the repos...
<Drk_Guy> lol xmms2 is on it though
<RoAkSoAx> Drk_Guy: xmms2 is not like xmms, xmms2 is more like and API for multiple interfaces... and xmms is another media player
<RoAkSoAx> or music player
<Drk_Guy> Ok :S
<Drk_Guy> RoAkSoAx, Weird, i could upload to REVU, but my account wasn't created
<RoAkSoAx> Drk_Guy: in other words: If the program you want to upload is no longer under development, it is not worth to have it in the repos because it is considered old and deprecated, or useless...
<Drk_Guy> RoAkSoAx, :P, i'll follow your advice
<RoAkSoAx> Drk_Guy: well i suppose you already went through here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging , there are lots of programs that need to be packaged.. so go ahead and practice :)
<RainCT> good night
<Drk_Guy> RoAkSoAx, Ok, i'll check one more, i need to study for a chemistry exam
<RoAkSoAx> Drk_Guy: i need to take a CCNA Module 2 exam xD
<Drk_Guy> XD
<Drk_Guy> RoAkSoAx, i would package Frostwire, but it would need Java dev libs and my DSL is very lazy
<Drk_Guy> ;)
<RoAkSoAx> haha well go ahead and have fun :)
<Drk_Guy> I'm going to work on songbird, it looks it's old and nobody is really interested on it
#ubuntu-motu 2008-07-11
<Drk_Guy> lol
<Drk_Guy> I'm not going to compile Songbird as it is already on GetDeb.net
<Drk_Guy> thus, that packaging request should be deleted
<RAOF> Drk_Guy: GetDeb.net =/= Universe.
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Still, GetDeb.net is official cannonical site, why wouldn't you use it?
<RAOF> Wherever did you get that impression?
<Drk_Guy> Yup
<Drk_Guy> Should i compile VDrift?
<RAOF> That's not an answer to the question "Why do you think GetDeb.net is an official Canonical site"?
<Drk_Guy> 1.5 hours of uploading
<Drk_Guy> Real good
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Idk, it's kinda hunch
<ion_> â 
<crimsun> I just rolled in my grave.
<null_vector> Hello motu
<ion_> crimsun: :-)
<RAOF> Drk_Guy: GetDeb.net is very, very much not in anyway endorsed by Canonical, MOTU, or God.
<RainCT> hi null_vector
<Drk_Guy> Still, VDrift uses scons, so i would have to edit rules, and i'm too lazy to do that
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, God?, lawl
<null_vector> RainCT: got your email.  thanks
<RainCT> yw :)
<RainCT> so, I'm really of now... good night
<RAOF> Drk_Guy: In fact, "highly recommended against" would be a more accurate portrayal of our position.
<null_vector> night
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, So you suggest NOT using GetDeb, right?
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Why?, their DEB's are fine
<null_vector> lol
<RAOF> Drk_Guy: Absolutely.
<RAOF> Because their debs are _not_ fine.
<RainCT> now that I was starting to don't dislike getdeb, RAOF comes and awakes my distrust again :P
<RAOF> Or, at least, there's no way to distinguish between the bad and the good.
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Dirty checkinstalls?
<RAOF> Possibly.  Also: breaking upgrades, etc.
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, A GetDeb OpenArena deb made some updates to refuse being installed
<RAOF> Absolutely possible.
<RAOF> The question is: do you trust random uploaders with root access to your box?
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, So, i'd better use PPA's/Repos/REVU
<ion_> I donât understand why the getdeb folks donât just direct their effort to Ubuntu universe.
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, I haven't heard of real bad things against GetDEb
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Except of your critiscism obviously
<RAOF> ion_: Because our quality standards impede the fresh flow of packaging.
<RAOF> :)
<null_vector> random ppa's are just as bad *g*
<RAOF> Drk_Guy: PPAs suffer the same problems as GetDeb.
<RAOF> Either way, you're giving root access to some guy on the internet :)
 * Drk_Guy is hungry, going to something to eat
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Huh?, PPA's are dev_script'd
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, You upload src, they compile
<RAOF> Indeed.
<RAOF> I publish a deb with 'rm -rf /' in the preinst.  You install it, and it wipes your drive.
<Drk_Guy> Woah
<Drk_Guy> Real nice way of crapping your comp
<RAOF> You install packages as root.  All the maintainer scripts run as root.
<Drk_Guy> I know
 * Drk_Guy is going to do a second wish list DEB, gimpshop
 * Drk_Guy finds linux WAY EASIER than windows
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, is editing rules hard?
<RAOF> They're just makefiles.
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, Huh?
<RAOF> debian/rules is just a makefile.
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, lol, should i use the one provided by dh_make?
<RAOF> You should probably read the packaging guide.
<RAOF> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<Drk_Guy> RAOF, I read it dude
<Drk_Guy> lol
<Drk_Guy> I just have some soft spots to cover
<RAOF> So, starting with the rules file provided by dh_make isn't a bad idea.  But you'll certainly need to edit it.
<ion_> dh_make still doesnât seem to know how to generate a debhelper 7 rules file. I recommend using either cdbs or dh 7 instead of the old dh rules.
<RAOF> Well, yes.  Unless you'd like it to be backportable.
<Drk_Guy> ion_, cdbs?, ok, i'll give it a try
<ion_> raof: Well, dh 7 could be backported. ;-)
<RAOF> jdong would kill you :)
<Drk_Guy> ion_, Ok, so dh_make, and then edit control to include cdbs as build-depend, right?
<ion_> dh_make already adds cdbs as a build-dep. See dh_make --help
 * Drk_Guy notices something weird, his ppa is http 404, and wine hasn't compiled after one hour of uplaoding
<Drk_Guy> ion_, ok
<Drk_Guy> This is weird, apt-cache show gimp won't show needed devel packages
<azeem> Drk_Guy: why should it?
<Drk_Guy> azeem, I need it for a control file
<Drk_Guy> azeem, I mean, i want to make a gimpshop package, but i don't have the required devel libs names
<azeem> right, but apt-cache show gimp displays the run-time dependencies, not the needed devel packages
<stgraber> Drk_Guy: try: apt-cache showsrc gimp
<stgraber> showsrc is for source packages and show build-deps
<Drk_Guy> azeem, ok
<Drk_Guy> stgraber, that worked, but, does the control file tells the package name, or the dir's name does that?
<ion_> Better take a look at gimpshopâs own build-dependencies, from configure.{in,ac}, README etc.
<azeem> does what?
<stgraber> in control you have first the part describing the source package then one section for each binary package
<stgraber> (not sure I understood the question though)
<Drk_Guy> stgraber, i mean, what determines package name, dir or control file?
<azeem> what is "dir"?
<Drk_Guy> ion_, It has almost no documentation, and the dir i extracted shows up something very similar to gimp's source dir
<azeem> besides, there's source package name and binary/binaries package name(s)
<Drk_Guy> ion_, besides standard gimp docs, there's nothing else
<ion_> The package name is determined from the control file for both source and binary packages.
<azeem> Drk_Guy: maybe it's some gross hack that shouldn't get packaged then
<Drk_Guy> azeem, gimpshop is a hack by itself, figure it out from the name
<Drk_Guy> ok ion_ thanks
<Drk_Guy> ion_, configure.in is a lil bit confusing ;)
<azeem> if this is your first package, something as complicated as gimp is maybe too ambitious
<Drk_Guy> azeem, It's not my first
<Drk_Guy> azeem, I've succesfully done a wine package with 3DMark patch
<Drk_Guy> As well as the tut's hello package ;)=
<Drk_Guy> Should i use gimp's or gimpshop's changelog?
<azeem> as upstream changelog?
<Drk_Guy> I'm using gimpshop's included changelog
<Drk_Guy> What should i put into copyright, taking in account someone hacked original gimp?
<azeem> what copyright?
<Drk_Guy> debian/copyright
<azeem> the original debian/copyright, plus the copyright of the modifications I guess
<RAOF> It should contain all the copyright information for all the files in the package.
<RAOF> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html may help you.
<persia> Drk_Guy: Just as a side note, we generally discourage the packaging of duplicated code: if this is indeed just a hack from the same source (rather than an interface overlay using the same libgimp, etc.), it may be considered unsuitable from a maintenance viewpoint (-security, -updates, etc.)
<Drk_Guy> persia, then what should i do?
<persia> Drk_Guy: Towards which goal?
<Drk_Guy> persia, I mean, it is on a wish list, and i put it as "In progress"
<azeem> what is "it"Â?
<Drk_Guy> I mean, the bug is "in progress"
<azeem> which bug?
<Drk_Guy> Bug 114109
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 114109 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] GIMPShop" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/114109
<persia> Drk_Guy: Well, you can research it a bit more: if it's full of duplicate code, you can set it back to "New" or "Confirmed" with a note saying that packaging is difficult due to duplicated code with gimp.  If you really want it, and this is the case, you can work with upstream.  If there isn't lots of duplicated code, then you ought just keep going.
<azeem> well, just because something is on a somebody's wishlist doesn't mean it makes sense to add it to the Ubuntu archive
<Drk_Guy> persia, http://plasticbugs.com/?page_id=294 affirms it's just a GUI hack, to make GIMP photoshop-ish
<persia> azeem: I disagree with that: I think everything on everyone's wishlist should be in the archive, although this takes a bit of work to get every upstream to play nice.
<persia> Drk_Guy: OK.  How is it organised?  If it's an overlay that needs the gimp libraries to build, it ought be fine.  If it's a dirty hack, it needs coordination with upstream or to be left for later.
<Drk_Guy> persia: it is just a different-GUI hack
<Drk_Guy> I mean, the menus are re-organized
<persia> Drk_Guy: Is there a lot of duplicated code?
<Drk_Guy> I don't really know, the folder reads gimp-2.2.11
<Drk_Guy> lol
<persia> Drk_Guy: Well, intrepid has gimp 2.4.6, so I doubt that the version of gimpshop you're investigating is compatible.
<Drk_Guy> persia, the changelog is really distorted and it's way large to organize it
 * persia marvels at gutsy-backports having 2.4.6 and hardy-backports having 2.4.5.
<persia> Drk_Guy: It sounds like you've found a hard one.  Maybe pass on this for now, and pick something else?
<Drk_Guy> persia, i think i'll set it back to New or confirmed
<Drk_Guy> :P
<Drk_Guy> persia, I'm trying to compile Mediainfo, but it has an sh to compile itself, should i edit control to run the sh?
<azeem> control?
<Drk_Guy> azeem, debian/control
<azeem> how would debian/control run the sh?
<Drk_Guy> azeem, idk, the SH is there
<Drk_Guy> in the src's root
<azeem> what?
<Drk_Guy> and it has various subdirs
<azeem> I neither what you mean with "idk", nor with "SH"
<Drk_Guy> SH is a script, idk is i dont know
<Drk_Guy> ;)
<azeem> that doesn't answer my question
<Drk_Guy> azeem, i have a dir with the src, but in that dir, there is a script to compile it, along with directories with other programs
<azeem> ok
<azeem> what does that have to do with debian/control?
<Drk_Guy> I mean, normally, it is configure-make-make install
<Drk_Guy> But this soft has an auto-compile script
<azeem> Drk_Guy: debian/control only contains meta-data, it doesn't have much to do with how packages are built
<Drk_Guy> lol, sorry, it's debian/rules
<Drk_Guy> azeem ...
<azeem> ?
<Drk_Guy> Any ideas?
<azeem> figure out which rules are mandated in debian/rules, and where calling that shell-script-to-build-things would fit
<Drk_Guy> :(
<RAOF> Drk_Guy: In order to work that out, you'd want to be looking at the debian policy link I gave earlier.
<Drk_Guy> lol
<RAOF> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html - the rules section lists all the mandatory targets of a debian/rules file, and what they're meant to do.
<Drk_Guy> lol RAOF, i'm going to continue trying tomorrow
<rootvzla> hi nxvl
<nxvl> hi!
<ion_> Eh. getdeb.net: âÂ© 2008 Canonical Ltd. Ubuntu and Canonical are registered trademarks of Canonical Ltd.
<ion_>     * Mirrors
<ion_> Whoops. Well, anyway.
<ion_> No wonder people think itâs blessed by Canonical.
<RAOF> Owch.
<TheMuso> Thats bad.
<persia> It's always been that way.
<nxvl> persia: i send you and e-mail an hout ago or something, did you got it?
<persia> nxvl: Possibly.  I don't check my email that frequently.
<nxvl> :D
<persia> nxvl: re: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/NewModel ?
<nxvl> persia: i'm for your splitting-the-mentoring-program idea and added some bits on it
<nxvl> persia: yep, exactly
<persia> Nice write up.  Best to work with the mentoring team on that, rather than me :)
<nxvl> persia: i'm part of the mentoring team
<nxvl> persia: i just wanted you to check it since you made the first suggestion
<bddebian> Heya gang
<nxvl> \o\ |o| /o/
<persia> nxvl: My main interest was in shortening mentoring cycles.  With the current model, a mentoring period can last over a year, which ties up a mentor for a fairly long time.  Having a clear end (whether timeframe or target) helps with this.
<nxvl> got dammit i hate library changes between ubuntu and debian
<nxvl> ugh!
<nxvl> persia: yes, also we don't have any idea of how is it going between mentors and mentees
<nxvl> there is no monitoring on the process
<nxvl> also, as i write it on the wiki, senior contributor have more time and energy to help new people than old developers
<Hobbsee> hey bddebian!
<bddebian> Hi Hobbsee
<persia> nxvl: I don't think it's useful to say "MOTU aren't allowed to mentor completely new people".  That said, depending on where each of us is on the path, anyone a few steps beyond is capable of being a great help.
<nxvl> persia: yes, that's true, i should clear that
<nxvl> persia: i tryed to meant that we should allow senior contributors to join the program
<persia> nxvl: I'm all in favour of allowing more people to help with things :)
<nxvl> persia: yes, that's the idea i just didn't cleared it enought :D
 * ScottK is still waiting for some evidence that the mentoring program is a net plus to the project.
<RAOF> Hm.  Why is lintian complaining about old-fsf-address?
<ion_> Because of... the old FSF address? :-)
<RAOF> Nope.
<persia> RAOF: Are you sure?  Sometimes it's embedded somewhere.
<RAOF> Not in the file that lintian is complaining about.
<persia> Does the file have the address twice?  I've seen that a couple times.
<RAOF> http://pastebin.com/f543c0963
<RAOF> That is /usr/share/doc/$PACKAGE/copyright, the file lintian is complaining about.
<RAOF> Urgh.  Typo; 20110-1301 != 20110-1307
<persia> lintian isn't smart enough to trick you :)
<RAOF> No, but it's dumb enough to perplex me :)
<AnAnt> is rainCT here ?
<ScottK> He's almost certainly sleeping right now.
<AnAnt> hmmm, I need help about this: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=webstrict
<AnAnt> he says: The Maintainer field must have an @ubuntu.com address.
<persia> AnAnt: Which part?
<AnAnt> I thought that having the maintainer field as a mailing list on launchpad was fine
<persia> It's supposed to be an ubuntu mailing list for teams.  foo@lists.ubuntu.com.
<AnAnt> but we don't have such an address
<persia> I thought there was a policy in place that helped avoid this sort of confusion: maybe ping jcastro if you can to help sort it (but not at this hour).
<persia> I suspect that if you fixed everything else, that might not be a blocker.
<AnAnt> persia: btw, regarding swt-gtk, when I should I file the sync request ? after mozillateam uploads a new xulrunner package that contains xulrunner-dev ?
<persia> AnAnt: When the Debian package compiles and runs in Ubuntu with no further source modifications.
<AnAnt> persia: that means I should wait for new xulrunner first
<persia> AnAnt: If that is the planned solution, yes.
<AnAnt> persia: problem is that I dunno when they will do so, I asked them and they said: when there's a new upstream release
<persia> AnAnt: The other option is to prepare a changed source package for now.
<ScottK> AnAnt: What RainCT says about the general policy is correct.  For your packages, I'm willing to forgo that rule (I have in the past).  If you get to where that's the only thing stopping an upload, let me know.
<AnAnt> ScottK: thanks
<ion_> Anyone feel like reviewing http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=compcache-setup? Thanks.
<RAOF> Hm.  How much is broken on PowerPC?
<AnAnt> regarding webstrict, I think it is possible to put release tarballs on launchpad, in that case there is no reason for get-orig-source, nor mention the bzr in copyright (rather mention the launchpad project page maybe)
<RAOF> Or, rather, how surprised should I be that evolution-sharp FTBFS on PPC due to dependency problems?
<coppro> how long must a package usually wait in REVU for a comment?
<AnAnt> persia: the package is prepared & on REVU since a few days
<persia> AnAnt: If you can get a release file published, your get-orig-source becomes a trivial call to uscan.
<AnAnt> persia: you mean , I still need a get-orig-source ?
<persia> RAOF: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/
<RAOF> coppro: An indeterminate period of time; once it's up, you probably want to poll in here about once a day.
<persia> AnAnt: I think every package should have a get-orig-source.  Where there's an easy to access upstream, it's just a call to uscan --force-download.
<persia> coppro: It varies widely: between 5 minutes and 5 months.
<persia> RAOF: Or more specifically, less broken than anything else in ports.
<RAOF> Oh, _ninjas_.  Please, gmcs, please don't segfault on the buildd.
<AnAnt> persia: the swt-gtk package is prepared & on REVU since a few days
<AnAnt> persia: that's reply to the other option you mentioned
<coppro> ah, well then
<coppro> i haven't really been doing the polling part
<coppro> so, anyone up for REVUing?
<foka> freeflying, Hi!
<freeflying> foka: hey
<freeflying> foka: REVU is something like mentors.debian.net
<AnAnt> freeflying: yup
<foka> freeflying, Cool.
<RAOF> coppro: It's a good idea to include a link to your package, too.
<coppro> ok, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=libmk4
<persia> foka: You just joined revu-uploaders?
 * persia syncs the keyring anyway, in case the answer is yes, and to be sure to get a turn
<foka> persia, Yes, I did some weeks ago, but this is the first time I begin looking into it.  :-)
<freeflying> persia: I think foka also wanna to be MOTU :)
<foka> freeflying, in the future, maybe.  :-)
<foka> freeflying, It is better to start from the beginning and do it step by step.  :-)
<freeflying> persia: foka is a experienced DD, he just don't know where to start :)
<persia> foka: Welcome.  We use REVU a little differently than mentors.
<persia> REVU is for NEW packages, but for update candidates (bugfixes, etc.) we prefer debdiffs attached to bugs, and subscribing the sponsors queue.
<foka> persia, Thank you for your warm welcome!
<foka> persia, Yes, I intend to upload two new packages for Ubuntu (which are not in Debian yet).  One is "sunpinyin", a CDDL/LGPL smart Chinese pinyin input method engine by Sun Microsystems, packaged for Debian by "Tchaikov" (Kov Chai) and which I sponsored uploaded for Debian, currently in the NEW queue.
<foka> persia, Another that I am packaging is called novel-pinyin by a local Chinese Novell developer and is packaged for OpenSUSE 11.
<persia> foka: Do you think they'll in NEW for long?  It's often easier to just sync once they get through Debian NEW.  On the other hand, if you want more time for testing/integration, REVU works, but it often takes at least as long as Debian NEW.
<freeflying> persia: those two packages have some issue, maybe rejected by ftp-master
<foka> freeflying, Not yet rejected.  :-)
<foka> freeflying, Still being discussed and remedied.
<persia> freeflying: Even more likely to get rejected from REVU then :)
<freeflying> foka: yes, I mean maybe
<freeflying> persia: :)
<foka> persia, Brief background info: the issue relates to the "statistical data" generated by gathering about 150MB of Chinese text from on-line website.
<persia> At runtime?  At build-time?  At packaging-time?
<foka> persia, The resulting statistical data is CDDL/LGPL'ed.
<foka> persia, Sun provides the statistical data in lm_sc.t3g.{i386,sparc}.
<foka> persia, Sun provides the statistical data in the file data/lm_sc.t3g.{i386,sparc}.
<foka> persia, It is not gathered/built/analysed at runtime or build-time.
<persia> Oh, that sounds reasonable, although I'm not an archive-admin :)
<foka> persia, So yes, Debian FTP master was asking further information about these files (as well as the pinyin phrase data, which thankfully we do have the source, elsewhere, just not packaged yet).  Kov Chai (the packager) replied a few days ago, and I added my take earlier today, now awaiting reply.  :-)
<foka> persia, So, in most cases, you would prefer packages to be in Debian first, and then sync with Ubuntu, except for Ubuntu-specific packages?
<persia> Ideally, yes.
<persia> Note that there are about 1000 packages currently in Ubuntu that aren't in Debian, in part because nobody familiar with Debian processes has tried to get them in.
<persia> It's always better when a package is in Debian, because that means that all Debian derivatives can use the same package, and there's more sharing of patches.
<foka> persia, I see.  Maybe I can help do that, integrating these packages back to Debian.  :-)  (is that called Utnubu?)
<persia> It also means there is a specific maintainer, which makes it easier for upstream to contact someone, and improves cooperation between upstream and the distributions.
<persia> foka: Utnubu could definitely use some help.  I've seen very little activity from that team recently.
<persia> On the other hand, unless someone can be found to be the maintainer, pushing it into Debian to sit in the hands of Debian QA isn't ideal.
<foka> persia, Hmm... very true.
<persia> For novell-pinyin and sunpinyin, I don't think this issue exists, which is why I think Debian is the right place.
<freeflying> foka: another issue, ubuntu has moblin support, the data of sunpinyin is a bit big for them
<persia> freeflying: Well, some builds have moblin support.  We also have some very large packages.  It depends on the target environment for each flavour.
<freeflying> persia: the you n will suggest  not to build sunpinyin for lpia? :)
<persia> freeflying: No, I suggest building it for all architectures.  I wouldn't expect the ubuntu-mobile seed to use it.
<persia> Or with large data, likely better to have arch: any for the data anyway.
<freeflying> persia: the problem is sunpinyin is an IM engine of scim, it performs  better than scim-pinyin
<persia> freeflying: Last I checked, there was no SCIM in ubuntu-mobile at all (or at least not exposed in the UI).  I might be mistaken, as I didn't try an installation with an appropriate locale.
<persia> I still think it's worth doing for lpia: there's plenty of press about non-mobile devices using those chips.
<freeflying> persia: thanks
<nxvl> ScottK: around?
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> nxvl: ^^^
<nxvl> ScottK: i take a look today at the mysql-gui-tools issue
<nxvl> ScottK: it's a library problem
<nxvl> ScottK: i have already send seb128 a mail for discussing it
<ScottK> OK.  Great.
<ScottK> This is what I'd expect a MOTU to do, is pursue the problem to the end and not leave the package FTBFS.
<nxvl> it's a problem with the migration from libgail to libgtk2.0-0
<foka> persia, I agree.  :-)  Besides, it is large, but not that large.  Probably about 40MB.
<dholbach> good morning
<nxvl> good morning
<nxvl> dholbach: i have send you an e-mail
<nxvl> dholbach: about the mentoring programm
<nxvl> program*
<dholbach> hi nxvl
<dholbach> nxvl: I noticed :)
<nxvl> D:
<nxvl> :D
<AstralJava> Morning Nicholas, Daniel. Interesting topic, and came to my mind to ask, are there guidelines for mentoring programme, or are they usually/always just individual deals between the mentor and the actor?
<nxvl> StevenK: ping
<StevenK> nxvl: ?
<dholbach> AstralJava: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<nxvl> StevenK: how is the libiw patch applied in netapplet?
<Hobbsee> magic
<nxvl> Hobbsee: yeah, it seems it does
<StevenK> nxvl: I'm going to need a little more information than that. :-)
<nxvl> AstralJava: is your patch
<AstralJava> dholbach: Thanks. :)
<nxvl> i can't build it and it seems to be a lib related problem
<AstralJava> Yeah I sort of figured as much, but was wondering whether any stricter guidelines had been put in place.
<nxvl> AstralJava: nope
<nxvl> AstralJava: i'm trying to write something up
<AstralJava> nxvl: Oh that's nice. I should subscribe to the page dholbach linked to, or is it going on someplace else?
<nxvl> dholbach: btw, sorry about the avalanche of mails about emgent :P
<nxvl> AstralJava: i use to write thing on a local file, then discuss it, and then upload it
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> AstralJava: but if you want you can ping me from time to time to see if i've got something
<nxvl> AstralJava: because now we are working on something else, which may change a little bit how things work
<nxvl> AstralJava: so i will wait until we decide about it
<AstralJava> nxvl: Not a prob. Chatting about it here is fun, but to catch the end result, it's going into the wiki, right?
<nxvl> yup
<nxvl> someday
<nxvl> :D
<AstralJava> nxvl: And yes, I'd like to be part of the process, if possible. I've got experience from a similar phenomenon at real work situations. Hence the interest in this too.
<AstralJava> nxvl: ...and I've already got a great mentor too, with whom I can hopefully talk more in depth about it.
<ScottK> AstralJava: Then mentoring program itself is optional.
<ScottK> There are also people here who will help most anyone when they have time.
<AstralJava> ScottK: So I understand. I still think it won't hurt in developing it. :)
<AstralJava> ScottK: And yes, I've noted that hanging around here somewhat before getting a mentor, can provide all the mentioned information.
<AstralJava> People are so friendly and open around here.
 * ScottK worries that if people only talk to their mentor, they will get a narrow view.
<AstralJava> But it would be interesting to see whether it could be taken onto a new level.
 * ScottK also worries it's almost 2AM here.
<ScottK> Good night.
<AstralJava> I understand that, but not willing to go down that direction.
<AstralJava> G'night.
<nxvl> ScottK: guidelines, as i'm proposing will be just a document to check and follow if you feel like to, if not, there is no problem
<nxvl> ScottK: i don't want to write a policy, just suggestions on how can it be
 * nxvl goes to bed too
<nxvl> (but with the laptop :P)
<AstralJava> Sleep tight, but not too tight with the machine. :)
<nxvl> heh
<SoylentGrun> nxvl,  the ports aren't for direct human interfacing
<nxvl> just moving from working place
<nxvl> not going to sleep
<nxvl> :D
<nxvl> SoylentGrun: huh?
<AstralJava> You _don't_ wanna get into that. Trust me. :)
<warp10> Hi all
<nxvl> hi!
<AstralJava> Hello.
 * nxvl is about to kill seb :D
<nxvl> StevenK: i'm talking about your patch
<nxvl> StevenK: on netapplet 1.0.8-1ubuntu3
<StevenK> nxvl: I'd have to checkl
<StevenK> s/\(check\)l/\1/
<ion_> Ew. I hate that RE dialect. :-)
<nxvl> RE are kewl
<nxvl> i'm going to bed
<nxvl> dholbach: after reviewing the wiki page please send me your comments/suggestions please
<nxvl> bye all, read you later
<dholbach> nxvl: I'm not sure I'll get to it
<dholbach> I have a lot of stuff to do today and will clear out to holidays later today
<dholbach> but I'll try
<RAOF> Hows about this for fun: pbuilder build evolution-sharp results in mcs segfaulting during the build; pbuilder-login ; aptitude install --without-recomments pbuilder ; /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends ; dpkg-buildpackage works.
<ion_> Well, itâs not as if software is deterministic.
<StevenK> RAOF: Woot
<RAOF> Oh, and I think this is amd64 specific.
<RAOF> Yup; builds everywhere but AMD64.
<mcquaid> i'm curious why there is no replacement for gstreamer0.10-gl in hardy
<mcquaid> I see here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/gstreamer0.10/+bug/227770
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227770 in gstreamer0.10 "glstreamer0.10-gl disapeared in hardy" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<mcquaid> it says Drop the OpenGL plugin. This will go to a new source package named        gst-plugins-gl once we have mesa >= 7.1 somewhere.
<mcquaid> but what about for hardy?  I grabbed this package here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/gstreamer0.10-gl
<mcquaid> even though it's status says deleted.  installed it manually. set it to glimagesink and the test is ok but then seg faults
<mcquaid> anyway even with this package installed i can't get brightness working in totem-gstreamer
<RAOF> Well, we'll probably get something in Intrepid, given we've now got mesa 7.1.
<RAOF> As for hardy, that plugin probably won't be making a re-appearance.  It was never particularly stable in my experience, anyway.
<mcquaid> yeah it's not working well. jsut a shame I can't use totem then
<mcquaid> as nvidia dropped full xv long time ago
<mcquaid> can't adjust brightness contrast etc without opengl playback
<mcquaid> i assume this must affect a lot of users
<RAOF> I wouldn't think so.  People needed to go out of their way to use that plugin.
<RAOF> Also, in what way do nvidia not support Xv?
<mcquaid> no i know people wouldn't go out of their way for that plugin.  I mean there are lots of nvidia users, and I assume a lot of people would like to be able to adjust their video brightness
<mcquaid> as of geforce 6 series and up there is no full xv
<mcquaid> you can't adjust brightness contrast etc
<RAOF> Hm...
<RAOF> Really?  I never noticed.
<mcquaid> i think an exception is the 6800 but thats about it
<mcquaid> have a recent nvidia? try an adjust vid settings in any player using xv, no dice
<mcquaid> but in the meantime, i guess i'll stick with mplayer/vlc or whatever, just rather use totem but it's not that big a deal i guess
<RAOF> Doesn't nvidia-settings expose those controls?
<RAOF> Nyargh!
<RAOF> Ok, how can I do this: I need to debug why mcs is segfaulting.
<RAOF> Unfortunately, it doesn't segfault in any interactive medium.  It segfaults on the buildds, in sbuild, and pbuilder.  It _doesn't_ segfault when running 'dpkg-buildpackage' from a pbuilder-login with the exact same build-deps installed.
<mcquaid> no nvidia-settings doesn't. it adjusts global brightness not for xv anymore
<mcquaid> the hardware simply can't do it anymore, even in windows.  the windows drivers forces a d3d layer for video now
<DktrKranz> RAOF: have you a build log handy?
<RAOF> DktrKranz: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15943548/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.evolution-sharp_0.17.4-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is a good one
<slangasek> RAOF: tried redirecting stdin/stdout of the process?
<RAOF> (a) Which proceess, and (b) with what goal.  Redirect to where?
<slangasek> the segfaulting one
<slangasek> to see if it behaves differently when invoked non-interactively
<slangasek> so you could do this just by redirecting the input/output of dpkg-buildpackage itself
<RAOF> And you'd redirect stdin to... /dev/null?
<slangasek> yes
<RAOF> Hm.  That segfaults.  But now it segfaults interactively, too.
<RAOF> Strangeness.
<slangasek> heh
<RAOF> But, like all good mono backtraces, the core is useless.
<porthose> this is a file header snip it of an app I am looking at, shouldn't the copyright holder be the upstream author (or who ever modified the code last) and not FSF?
<porthose> http://pastebin.com/d25df84af
<persia> porthose: Depends on what the author wants.  In many jurisdictions, the author may assign copyright to any entity.
<porthose> persia: ok cool that explains it thx :)
<persia> I suspect that the file was adopted from an automake distributed depcomp, and so upstream was only modifying the work, rather than creating new work.
<porthose> persia: how would you handle that in debian/copyright?
<persia> porthose: List that file as Copyright FSF, with the license information.
<porthose> k thx you have been a great help :)
<AnAnt> Hello, I am trying to package a java app, trying to build using gcj
<AnAnt> now, I got this error when building: Error: JAVA_HOME is not defined correctly.
<AnAnt> can someone give me an example of a java app that builds using gcj ?
<AnAnt> I tried looking at swt-gtk, but it uses cdbs
<bSON> hi
<AnAnt> hello
<bSON> is it possible to add descriptions in multiple languages to a control file?
<AnAnt> dunno
<AnAnt> but I will tell you about another file called templates
<AnAnt> if a field is translatable, it will be prefixed with _
<AnAnt> ie: _Description
<AnAnt> then the translations are in debian/po/
<bSON> ah cool, thanks :)
<AnAnt> dunno if that is applicable in control though
<bSON> i'll try it
<Ademan_> what's the policy for packages that have been updated in debian?  can we use them or do we first need the permission from the package maintainers?  Would we even want the debian verison of the source package? or would it be best to start with the existing (old old) ubuntu package and work from there?
<RAOF> Ademan_: The policy is basically "make it possible to take as much as possible from debian".
<persia> Ademan_: We generally try for the optimax of being close to Debian and fixing all the bugs.
<slytherin> !tell Ademan_ about merge
<ubottu> Ademan_, please see my private message
<persia> Which package are you looking at now?
<Ademan_> specifically nginx
<Ademan_> http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/nginx   they've got the latest stable
<Ademan_> oh wait, even they're a minor revision off
<Ademan_> hehe
<persia> Ademan_: There's no Ubuntu variation in nginx: unless it causes isses for puppetmaster, we probably want the sync.
<persia> Ah, and it probably won't, as it's just Suggests :)
<Ademan_> i'm totally unfamiliar with puppetmaster
<Ademan_> unless it's the package i just found hehe
<persia> Ademan_: You're not alone :)
 * Ademan_ should google first ask questions later
<Ademan_> how does puppetmaster interact with something like upstart? there seems to be *alot* of overlapping functionality
<persia> Heaps and heaps of it.
<sistpoty|work> hi folks
<Ademan_>  -1 indicates debian patches, correct?
<Ademan_> where -ubuntu1 would be ubuntu packages
<Ademan_> patches*
<persia> Ademan_: There's never -ubuntu1.
<persia> -1, -2, -3, -4 are revision codes in Debian.
<persia> From those, ubuntu sets codes, so -0ubuntu1, -1ubuntu17, -4ubuntu2, etc.
<Ademan_> ah
<Ademan_> alright, thanks
<Ademan_> anywho, point is, as far as i can tell from the merging docs nginx meets the criteria for a sync
<persia> Now, There are also special NMU uploads in Debian, which can get revisions like -2.3 (3rd upload by non-maintainer after 2nd upload by maintainer)
<persia> Ademan_: It's syncable, as it has no real rdepends (but test puppetmaster), but you might want to wait if there is a new upstream waiting to be packaged in Debian.
<Ademan_> is there a good way to determine that short of contacting the package maintainers?
<persia> Didn't you say that upstream had a newer version than Debian?
<Ademan_> indeed
<persia> Then you've already determined it.
<Ademan_> oh sorry i read that as, if they're working on it or not
<persia> Oh, check the BTS to see if there is an upgrade bug.
<Laney> Who runs ubuntuwire? It looks like the rcbugs list is out of date (Ubuntu versions are linking to ones that have been superseded)
<Ademan_> persia: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=429922  is the most relevant thing i could find, and it's rather old
<ubottu> Debian bug 429922 in nginx "nginx: New upstream version available (0.6.1)" [Wishlist,Closed]
<persia> Ademan_: You and I have different definitions of old :)  That only got fixed in May.
<Ademan_> persia: where does it say that? the only dates i can find are from 2007
<persia> Well, all the right information is listed there for the maintainer.
<persia> Ademan_: 0.6.x entered unstable on 2nd May 2008, according tohttp://packages.qa.debian.org/n/nginx.html
<Ademan_> ah
<Ademan_> indeed
<persia> You could open another bug, but I don't think that maintainer works that way.  Which change from 0.6.32 do you seek?
<Ademan_> nothing really i suppose, just rather concerned about having anything web-facing completely up to date
<persia> Only think I see that might matter is the character escaping in the access log, but that's fairly minor.
<persia> s/k/g/1
<ion_> /1? What dialect is that?
<persia> ion_: Standard: replace the first instance
<geser> isn't that default?
<persia> geser: I suppose it is.
<Ademan_> probably depends on the flavor of regex
<ion_> Just curious. Iâd like to know which regexp engine supports the 1 flag.
<persia> Ademan_: Perhaps, but for sed/awk/vi it is default, and I likely oughtn't bother typing it (although I always do, for some reason).
<Ademan_> i haven't the slightest clue why, but i have really never used awk
<persia> awk is great!  If you have any delimited file, you can perform arbitrary processing on each line: you search for something, and then (maybe) send some output for matches.
<persia> I suppose you can do the same in perl, python, ruby, etc. but it's likely fewer lines of code in awk.
<persia> (not that anyone will be able to read the code or anything...)
<Ademan_> lol
<Ademan_> not like anyone can read perl...
<persia> Ademan_: The difference is that the more lines one adds to a perl script, the more likely that it becomes slightly readable.  The opposite is true in awk.
<Ademan_> haha
<ion_> :-)
<geser> persia: unless the additional lines change one of the special $ variables (the short notations ones like $(, $), $\, etc.)
<Ademan_> egh
<Ademan_> perl's internal variables are awesome for speed
<Ademan_> hell for readabilityh
<Ademan_> especially for non-perl-people
<Ademan_> it's one of the few languages that a decent programmer can't always look at and figure out what's going on
<\sh> Ademan_: hmmm?
<\sh> everybody should read perl
<ion_> Yeah, just like everybody should read m68k asm.
<sistpoty|work> what's wrong with m68k asm?
<ion_> Should there be something wrong with it?
<sistpoty|work> I don't think so *g*
<mouz> If a bug has status 'Fix Committed', should I always find it under https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue (under any of the queue states)? I ask because the patch in bug 223882 is not applied in the version I find under that URL.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223882 in bash-completion ".configure script completion prints error messages when tried with insufficient permissions" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223882
<persia> mouz: Fix Committed is one of the more confusing states, and seems to mean different things to different people :(
<persia> Personally, I think the answer to your question should be "Yes", but it may not be.
<persia> In this case, I think the patch is committed upstream somewhere: tracking down which git repo and following it through to released is work worth doing.
<slytherin> Queue is just for new source and binary packages right? Or does every package go there?
<persia> slytherin: Every upload goes there.  There are several states: NEW, UNAPPROVED, APPROVED, and DONE.
<persia> Each source package and each binary package goes through each state.
<slytherin> hmm
<persia> If the source or binary package already exists, it skips NEW.
<persia> If there's no archive freeze, it skips UNAPPROVED
<persia> APPROVED -> DONE happens about once an hour.
<slytherin> By the way, 'Fix Commited' is really confusing state. Many people use it to indicate that fix was commited upstream which is not very useful IMHO
<persia> Different people use it for different things.  I heard a rumor that it might go away, but I'm not sure.
<wgrant> persia: s/APPROVED/ACCEPTED/
<wgrant> There is of course also REJECTED.
<persia> wgrant: Thank you.
<wgrant> slytherin: Those people should be advised to stop doing it.
<wgrant> Because it is wrong.
<persia> And, yes, there's REJECTED, but ideally that's always empty :)
<mouz> wgrant: according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status it is not really wrong
<wgrant> mouz: Then that page is wrong.
<mouz> :)
<persia> mouz: Read that page again carefully:  "For an upstream project...".  That means bugs against the upstream project, not bugs against Ubuntu.
<wgrant> That page says nothing of the sort, as persia says.
<emgent> hello
<sebner> emgent: \o/
<persia> So, MOTU Meeting in a couple minutes in #ubuntu-meeting.  Everyone please join.
<sistpoty|work> <- will be afk for at least half an hour... important coffee break ^w^w meeting
 * sebner -> dinner
<persia> timing, timing, timing...
<geser> cody-somerville: are you attending the motu meeting to present your topic?
<dushara> Hello
<EdgeAU> Hello All, I reported a bug with the package ivman a couple of months ago and supplied a patch written by somebody else (and tested by me) and nothing has been done about it. How can I help get the patch into the next version of the package?
<hefe_bia> I have a question: How do I mark contributions from multiple authors in a debian changelog?
<broonie> hefe_bia: dch will do this for you automagically.
<hefe_bia> even if its for the same revision?
<broonie> yes
<broonie> gnome-volume-manager has an example of the results in 2.22.0-1
<broonie> (this is assuming you all use dch individually)
<persia> Or at least that the changelog is well formatted at the time of anyone's call to dch :)
<hefe_bia> ah, ok. No I do include a patch from someone else
<persia> hefe_bia: If it's just a patch, I usually say "Thanks to $(NAME)" in the changelog.
<broonie> hefe_bia: "Applied patch from John Doe to <do whatever>"
<broonie> zlib has plenty of examples of that sort of thing in the changelog
<hefe_bia> persia: ok. that answers my question :)
<EdgeAU> How do I get a patch applied for the next version of a package?
<hefe_bia_> EdgeAU: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<EdgeAU> hefe_bia: Thanks, Will Do!
<EdgeAU> hefe_bia: The thing is, I didn't write the patch: I found it on the Debian bugtracker so I don't feel comfortable submitting it like that and I don't have enough programing experience to review it manually (but I do know that it works great!)
<persia> EdgeAU: If you've applied the patch, and it works for you, that's most of the review.  If you do the work to make a candidate upload for a sponsor, they'll likely look at it again, and reject if it's truly gross.
<dushara> Hi all, I'd like to maintain the the following package: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ttf-sinhala-lklug how do I go about it?
<EdgeAU> So Should (try :) ) and make a debdiff from the patch(never done it before) and then submit it as a comment to my bug report and then subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to it?
<persia> dushara: We tend to avoid package-specific maintainers, as we believe in group maintenance of packages.  Any help you could provide to get all the bugs fixed in ttf-sinhala-lklug would be hugely appreciated.
<geser> EdgeAU: yes, that would be perfect and increase the possibility to see it uploaded without much waiting
<persia> I'd recommend reviewing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing.
<dushara> persia: I don't think there are any bugs in that package. It's just not included in Ubuntu that's all. I'm involved in a localisation group. That package was developed by the debian maintainer of the group. I've been asked to manage the Ubuntu packing.
<persia> dushara: Oh, that's easy then.  It's already in Debian?
<EdgeAU> After I have done that should I copy my original bug report (and the patch I found) over to the project's SF page (coz I'm guessing the patch won't auto-magically swim upstream :) )
<persia> EdgeAU: Helping the patch swim upstream would be good.  Upstream is in the best position to do a proper code review.
<EdgeAU> OK
<RainCT> dushara: So what exactly do you want to do? It is already in Ubuntu (Launchpad indicates that version 0.5.3-1 is in Intrepid) and there are generally (even though not always) no changes required for a Debian package to work in Ubuntu.
<persia> RainCT: Good find.
<persia> dushara: You'll want to subscribe to the bug reports for the package, and as they arrive, work with your team to get them fixed.
<persia> If you have patches for the development release, those can be submitted directly (although syncing from Debian is always good).  If you have patches for older releases, these need to be prepared especially for Ubuntu.
<RainCT> persia: I find it's a somewhat common misconception amongst people new to Ubuntu's development processes, that packages from Debian need to be in some way "converted" to work in Ubuntu, when what they really want is a sync or a backport
<persia> RainCT: Sometimes, although in this case the upstream team is assigning people to work with each distribution, and we should help them to understand how we work to facilitate the interaction.
<RainCT> persia: I haven't said the opposite :)
<dushara> RainCT: yes. I'm not entirely sure of how new packages are managed.
<dushara> ttf-sinhala-lklug is in sid (debian). I believe it was imported to Ubuntu when the process was automatic. I just assumed that there was more work needed.
<RainCT> dushara: Well, most packages are just taken directly from Debian. When a new development version starts packages which weren't modified in Ubuntu (both, new versions and completely new packages) are automatically 'copied over' (synced) from Debian for the first months (until "DebianImportFreeze"), and after that syncs can be requested manually as described on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess.
<RainCT> dushara: when someone reports a bug in Ubuntu, we can either wait for Debian to fix it and sync the package after that (or manually merge it, if the package that's in Ubuntu was already modified) or fix it ourselves for Ubuntu (and usually forward the patch to Debian so that once it's integrated there we can sync again and don't need to merge new revisions)
<persia> Or prepare a fix, upload to Debian, and request a sync (where possible).
<hefe_bia> I have updated debdiffs on bug 223812 after discussion with another patch submitter. This should fix three bugs now. Anybody willing to take a look?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 223812 in powernowd "[hardy] Regression: powernowd no longer works with some chipsets" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223812
<dushara> ok. BTW the pkg in launchpad is version 0.5.3-1, I've been given a tarball for version 0.5.4. Should it be updated?
<RainCT> dushara: best would be to update the package in Debian and then request a sycn from there
<RainCT> *sync
<persia> dushara: Due to the nature of the relationship between Debian and Ubuntu, you'll want to work very closely with the person maintaining the package in Debian.
<dushara> ok. I've also uploaded a couple of other packages scim-wijesekera (mine) and scim-sayura. These aren't in debian at the moment, but I expect they would be. Was it a mistake uploading them?
<dushara> persia: We're part of a common dev group.
<nijaba> Hello... Any volunteer for a revue of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=limesurvey ?
<persia> Yeah: no point uploading to both Debian and Ubuntu: better to sync.
<dushara> RainCT, persia: Thanks very much for your help.
<persia> OK.  Meeting is over.
<persia> Now, there's work to do.  Anyone who would be willing to help with NBS, watch files, or ubuntu-local upstream syncs: please let me know if you want help.
<hefe_bia> evand: ping
<AstralJava> watch files are nice, I can help with that. What's NBS?
<persia> AstralJava: Not-Built-From-Source.
<persia> But watch files it is :)
<AstralJava> Heheh. :)
<persia> So, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_watch.html lists a bunch of packages that don't have watch files.  All of these are either Ubuntu-local or orphaned in Debian.
<persia> In many cases, a basic watch file can be generated from debian/copyright, and these are made available in the Watch Wizard column.
<persia> All of these packages need someone to add the watch file.  When doing so, it's a good idea to look for new upstreams, fix bugs, etc. as usual.
<AstralJava> Right, sounds like good practice.
<persia> As a number of these packages are orphaned in Debian, it may be that the BTS already has a watch file submitted as a patch, or other fixes, which would be good to adopt.
<persia> So, basic workflow: download the package source.
<persia> Check the BTS and LP for bugs.
<persia> Verify upstream, and check for a new version.  Update if you like (it's OK not to update, if there's no good reason to update).
<persia> Make sure there is a watch file in the new source.
<persia> Upload.
<persia> Ask here if you need help with regular expressions, version mangling, etc.
<persia> The easy ones have "watch" in the Watch Wizard column, and have the current upstream.
<AstralJava> Great. I made notes, and will begin working after the Finnish baseball match I'm going to see soon. :)
<persia> (e.g. danpei)
<ompaul> persia, pm
<evand> hefe_bia: sorry about that, it's on my todo list for today
<hefe_bia> evand: no problem. Just wanted to say I'm here if more discussion is needed. Might be at work later, but I'll try to be online there, too.
<evand> ok
<cody-somerville> I dunno about you guys but that was a long 15-20 minutes, lol
<bdrung> vorian: ping
 * hefe_bia heads for work now. cya
<bdrung> is it enough to add a sync request to bug #246299 or should i open a seperate bug report?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246299 in gxmms2 "[intrepid] Rebuild with xmms2 0.5 DrLecter" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246299
<persia> bdrung: I'd make a separate report, and add a comment there that you expect whichever package needs it to be fixed by the sync (and list the sync bug number)
<cody-somerville> persia, How did the meeting wrap up? Sorry I had to jet.
<persia> cody-somerville: With a conclusion that we would discuss things more, as the questions weren't clear.
<cody-somerville> persia, Would it help if I wrote an official proposal?
<hefe_bia> re
<persia> cody-somerville: sistpoty|work volunteered to try to take the existing mail information and meeting discussions and write up a summary of points: he likely wouldn't complain about assistance.
<cody-somerville> persia, okay. I'll follow up with him. Did anyone agree to do meeting minutes?
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: what persia wrote...
 * cody-somerville nods.
<persia> cody-somerville: emgent volunteered to do minutes early.
<cody-somerville> Okay, I gotta jet again (busy day).
 * cody-somerville waves.
<persia> If you want something to do, you can do the announcements for the next meeting.
<sistpoty|work> cody-somerville: I'll send you a draft tonight for you to further refine, ok? Or would you rather like to start with a proposal?
<cody-somerville> persia, Okay :)
<cody-somerville> sistpoty|work, How about we touch base in a bit and we can figure out what works best? It might be best for you to start as I'd like the summary to be as objective as possible.
 * cody-somerville runs.
<persia> cody-somerville: Thanks
<nixternal> OK, who put the new Flash stuff in *-updates or whatever? it is utter garbage, bad move imho
 * emgent does not agree with Persia
<persia> emgent: Which are you disagreeing with?
 * freeflying 
<laga> nixternal: has the beta version for flash 10 hit the repos?
<DktrKranz> nixternal: only -backports
<sebner> DktrKranz: beta1 or beta2?
<DktrKranz> sebner: dunno, I don't use it. version is 10.0.1.218+10.0.0.525ubuntu1~hardy1
<DktrKranz> sebner: congrats for your first package from scratch :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: hmm seems beta2 to me
<sebner> DktrKranz: rofl. YOU uploaded it and now you congratulate me? xD
<DktrKranz> sebner: ah... was it me? I don't remember
<DktrKranz> :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: xD xD xD
<sebner> DktrKranz: but thanks xD
<nixternal> DktrKranz: do you know of a bug report for the new flash so I can make my mark and tell them to remove it?
<freeflying> sorry, type wrong
<nixternal> all of my news sites don't like the new flash, they say "invalid version of flash"
<sebner> nixternal: it has hit the backports and you already want to remove it? ^^
<nixternal> and lets not forget the 92% CPU spike in Xorg and Firefox with the new version
<nixternal> sebner: it is garbage, so yes
<sebner> nixternal: with intrepid it's running good except some graphical issues
<nixternal> Adobe even stated, or someone in the labs, to not use the version out due to problems
<nixternal> well, it is straight crap in Hardy
<nixternal> can't watch my weather dangit :)
<DktrKranz> nixternal: bug 235135
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 235135 in hardy-backports "[MASTER] Please backport flashplugin-nonfree version 10 beta and asound-plugins from Intrepid so we can drop libflashsupport and the crashes it causes" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/235135
<sebner> nixternal: maybe but beta10 is a lot more better then stable 9
<nixternal>  6493 root      20   0  487m 143m 6388 R   41  7.1  15:38.00 Xorg
<nixternal> yay, that is idle
<DktrKranz> keep it away from proposed, then :)
<sebner> siretart: so no neighbor bonus ,hmm? :P
<AnAnt> Hello, is gcj java 5 or even 6 compatible ?
<DktrKranz> sebner: stop bothering sponsors and become a DD yourself! :)
<persia> AnAnt: I think it's different: that it has some JDK 6 functions, but doesn't have others in both 5 and 6.  Someone in #ubuntu-java might know better.
<sebner> DktrKranz: lol, hmm I have not intention to become a DD. You're my only hope :P
<siretart> sebner: I didn't see the package yet
<sebner> siretart: if that's the only problem =)  http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/h/hitori/
<siretart> much better
<siretart> sebner: 1. have you considered contributing that game to the debian games team?
<siretart> sebner: 2. I don't feel comfortable updating config.{guess,sub} as side effect. I'd prefer to put it in a diffent make target and only call it by hand
<AnAnt> persia: no one answering there
<AnAnt> persia: btw, you even done a java package ?
<sebner> siretart: I never contributed to debian before so I just know about debian mentors
<AnAnt> can someone help  me with this please: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15946661/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.monajat_1.0-0ubuntu1%7Eppa10_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<siretart> sebner: that's no problem. I never used debian mentors either
<sebner> ^^
<siretart> sebner: the build dependency on autotools-dev seems redundant to me
<persia> AnAnt: I've never done a java package.  Someone might answer later, or you could try a different day.
<DktrKranz> sebner: debian mentors require a fee... 500 euros per upload should be fine, give them to me, I'll send them to SPI
<sebner> DktrKranz: you racist bastard! :P
<DktrKranz> indeed
<persia> !ohmy | sebner
<ubottu> sebner: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<sebner> persia: ^^
<geser> AnAnt: I'm not a java expert but try if you can set the source level to 5.0 (but don't ask my how to do it). You could also try #ubuntu-java for help.
<DktrKranz> persia: it's not an offence, it's a sketch
<persia> DktrKranz: Yes, but it shows up as "bad words" in logs, which isn't ideal...
<AnAnt> geser: thanks
<sebner> persia: wasn't there yesterday something similar with Hobbsee ,...?
<persia> sebner: Perhaps.  I may have missed it.
<sebner> persia: np, I'll be quiet in future =)
<DktrKranz> It was, similar one.
<DktrKranz> but joking context too :)
<persia> sebner: Noooo!  Don't be quiet.
<sebner> persia: hrhr, I mean with bad words
<DktrKranz> sebner: you can also use y. r. b. model :)
<persia> Ah.  Thanks :)
<sistpoty|work> so I'm not allowed to write checkinstall here? *g*
<persia> !ohmy | sistpoty|work
<ubottu> sistpoty|work: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<sebner> !ohmy | sistpoty|work
<sebner> damn
<sebner> :P
<sistpoty|work> heh
<sebner> is suse also a bad word?
<DktrKranz> sistpoty|work: I got BSOD on Debian... please don't do it again!
<DktrKranz> :)
<persia> Whatever happened to that project to create a wizard to generate more policy-compliant packages and obsolete checkinstall anyway?
<sistpoty|work> heh
<sistpoty|work> persia: you mean debhelper v 5? or cdbs?
<DktrKranz> persia: autoapt?
<DktrKranz> (or similar)
<geser> zero-install?
<sistpoty|work> geser: zero-install is a different league imho, as it acts solely in user-space
<persia> sistpoty|work: Neither: there was talk about writing a python-gtk "MOTU-in-a-box" last September or October, although I've forgotten about it until now.  Sort of a make-dpkg + GUI wizard.
<sistpoty|work> ah
<DktrKranz> why we should waste time if we already have checkinstall?
<sebner> checkinstall \o/
<sistpoty|work> !ohmy | DktrKranz
<ubottu> DktrKranz: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<sistpoty|work> :P
<sebner> persia: poor log readers ;)
<persia> DktrKranz: Speaking as someone who has read the checkinstall code, I'll just say that it doesn't count as something we have.
<sebner> *reader
<sistpoty|work> seems like bad words are now all over this place *g*
<DktrKranz> -ETOOMUCHBADWORDS
<sistpoty|work> heh
<DktrKranz> ubottu will go in stack overflow soon
<ubottu> DktrKranz: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<sebner> persia: just like kids :P
<sebner> ubottu: n00b
<ubottu> Acronyms or statements like  noob, jfgi, stfu or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period.
 * DktrKranz needs to look at some of these terms...
<DktrKranz> got them :)
<sistpoty|work> nice, so ubottu teaches bad words to DktrKranz *g*
<DktrKranz> \o/
<sebner> lol
<sebner> bad ubottu
<sebner> uhh
<sebner> !ohmy | ubottu
<ubottu> ubottu: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<sebner> hehe
<persia> Umm.  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/ still has useful content, even though it seems banned.
<DktrKranz> now I can go out and insult people with new words I've just learned
<DktrKranz> mh... we could tell lintian to complain with "write that *** manpage" instead of the current message
<slytherin> AnAnt: still there?
<LucidFox> If a bug is about incorrect build-dependencies, should I tag it as "ftbfs" or "unmetdeps"?
<persia> LucidFox: FTBFS
<slytherin> LucidFox: Does it FTBFS?
<LucidFox> yes, because some build-dependencies are not written in debian/control
 * persia notes that slytherin's question is likely more pertinent than my answer :)
<slytherin> LucidFox: then it is sure FTBFS. :-)
 * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
<slytherin> AnAnt: GCJ has generics support. See if for some reason source is being set to 1.4. The place to look for is build.xml (unlikely) or in rules file.
<LucidFox> I remember how I once triaged someone else's FTBFS as wishlist...
<slytherin> can I find ppa name form a build log?
<geser> slytherin: see the output of apt-get update at the beginning of the log
<LucidFox> why not just use openjdk?
<LucidFox> </naive-question>
<LucidFox> persia> I actually thought of such a GUI tool
<LucidFox> But I think it would be best implemented as an Eclipse plugin
<persia> LucidFox: It's been mentioned a couple times, but nobody ever writes it.  I'm not sure whether having it would be good, but it beats some of the things people use now.
<slytherin> LucidFox: Out of all the java sdks available gcj is common denominator. Also most developers don't specify target VM versions and when compiled by a java 6 compiler it will be only compatible java 6 VM. Hence GCJ/Sun Java 5 should be preffered
<slytherin> LucidFox: what tool are you talking about?
 * persia points at bug #246349 as a possible change to that advice
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246349 in openjdk-6 "MIR for openjdk-6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246349
<LucidFox> <persia> sistpoty|work: Neither: there was talk about writing a python-gtk "MOTU-in-a-box" last September or October, although I've forgotten about it until now.  Sort of a make-dpkg + GUI wizard.
<slytherin> persia: Don't think so. Unless you want to keep only java 6 VMs in repository, people will complain that they get unsupported class version with certain packages.
<persia> slytherin: From what I understand from reading the MIR, it will be used as a java 1.5 compatible runtime / build dependency instead of gij/gcj.  Doesn't it have a working compatibility mode?
 * persia is uncertain
<slytherin> persia: So you mean when you use openjdk compiler it will auto set source=1.5, target=1.5?
<persia> slytherin: I'm not sure.  Ask the MIR composer, or maybe someone in #ubuntu-java knows (but it's extra quiet there today for some reason).
<slytherin> persia: Is there any policy about what architectures should be supported for moving a package to main?
<persia> slytherin: Not that I know about.  Why?
<slytherin> persia: Regarding openjdk. AFAIK it is only available on i386, amd64
<persia> slytherin: And sparc.  I suspect lpia is an easy port (but haven't looked carefully).
<persia> Someone suggested a powerpc port recently, but it needs someone to work on it.
<persia> I'm not sure about ia64, and hppa needs love anyway
<slytherin> persia: hmm, I need to get my ibook charger fixed. :-(
<slytherin> persia: Once I get that fixed I probably upgrade it to intrepid so I can see how much of java stack is usable on powerpc.
<persia> slytherin: That'd be great!
<slytherin> geser: That apt trick about build log worked, thanks. :-)
<nijaba> Any taker for a little review of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=limesurvey ?
<slytherin> nijaba: What doe sthe app do?
<nijaba> slytherin: it is an online survey tool
<slytherin> nijaba: Ok. Was just curious. I am no MOTU, so can't do proper review.
<NCommander> I'm trying to find a sponsor to help me update a package in Ubuntu
<NCommander> I'm the debian maintainer of the package.
<slytherin> NCommander: Then just file a sync bug in Ubuntu
<sebner> NCommander: which package?
<ramvi> ï»¿I'm making Ubuntu eee. I used reconstructor for the last release, but it's not really doing it for me. What's a good way of remastering the ubuntu live iso? What's the "correct" way?
<NCommander> sebner, cvsps
<NCommander> It's not in Debian
<NCommander> At least, not the updated version
<sebner> NCommander: then update it in debian and we merge/sync it to ubuntu
<NCommander> So I can't upload the package directly to ubuntu?, the main reason I'm doing it this way is I can't find someone to sponsor me
<sebner> NCommander: well, you could just update it in ubuntu but in general the other way is better
 * NCommander smacks head on desk a few times
<NCommander> I'm also interested in joining MOTU, so I figure its a good way to get started
<sebner> NCommander: cvsps-2.1.tar.gz   (most recent stable version)
<sebner> 2.1 is in debian and ubuntu
<NCommander> Yeah, I have a 2.1-5 I want to upload
<NCommander> It has a patch which fixes a bug on amd64
<K^> NCommander: report the bug to debian pts with tag patch
<sebner> NCommander: ok, file a bug or patch it yourself. Here a nice video =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAxFpKBG-bU
<tuxmaniac> Any idea who to be contacted for ubotu's presence in a loco channel?
<tuxmaniac> we have a loco bug jam tomorrow and would like to have ubotu with us :-)
<NCommander> No, no no, I already have the package built, and packaged with the patch
<NCommander> Right now, its sitting on mentors.debian.org, since I can't find someone who is willing to sponsor the package
<sebner> NCommander: that doesn't matter. File a bug and attach a debdiff (for ubuntu) then you have to subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<NCommander> I see.
<sebner> NCommander: but for ubuntu it's -4ubuntu1 and not -5
<NCommander> Even if the same extact package is going to go back into Debian? (assuming I ever find a sponsor)
<NCommander> (I'm sorry if I'm clueless, but I don't know too much about the MOTU process)
<K^> tuxmaniac: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
<sebner> NCommander: yes
<persia> tuxmaniac: Ask in #ubuntu-irc
<K^> tuxmaniac: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots
<tuxmaniac> K^: thanks.
<tuxmaniac> persia: thanks to you too
<K^> tuxmaniac: np :)
<NCommander> Ok, I made the changes to the changelog, built it, now I just need to make the diff
<sebner> NCommander: don't forget to change the maintainer in debian/control
<NCommander> Why change it the maintainer?
<NCommander> I am the debian maintainer :-)
<sebner> NCommander: We have other processes ;)
<NCommander> Oh
 * NCommander must learn
<NCommander> I switched to Ubuntu on my laptop about a month ago, and love it :-)
<NCommander> So I'm now interested in trying to begin the MOTU process (my DD application is stuck in limbo ;-))
<persia> NCommander: If you're the Debian maintainer, you can get a special exception to the maintainer change.
<sebner> NCommander: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<NCommander> persia, link?
<sebner> persia: hmm?
<persia> Generally, we change the maintainer to indicate that we're taking responsibility for the variance, and the Debian maintainer is not to blame.
<persia> That said, if you want the responsibility, you can have it.
<NCommander> The same changes are going int 2.1-5 as soon as someone sponsors the package in Debian
<NCommander> But I've gone almost a month and no one seems to want to touch it; it passes linda and lintman so I dunno
<NCommander> Ok, I signed the changes file, and I have the diff.
<persia> Attach the debdiff to a bug against the package, and subscribe the sponsors.  Someone will get to it for upload soon.
<sebner> persia: "soon" ^^
<NCommander> WHich comes the next stupid question
<NCommander> WHere do I file a bug against it specifically in launchpad
<NCommander> (reportbug is missing, and I don't see where on launchpad I do it)
<persia> There are no stupid questions (well, maybe, "Is this a stupid question?")
<persia> Which package again?
<NCommander> cvsps
<NCommander> YOu guys are much nicer then some other channels I hang out in ;-)
<persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cvsps/+filebug
<NCommander> Do I also need to include the signed changes file?
<sebner> NCommander: no
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cvsps/+bug/247663
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247663 in cvsps "Updated cvsps package" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> Hrm
<NCommander> Handy
<NCommander> so what can I do to help Ubuntu beside getting packages into my packages?
<sebner> NCommander: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<persia> NCommander: Fix other packages?
<persia> NCommander: While it's not a perfect analogy, we operate something like a 0-day BSP all day every day
<NCommander> BSP?
<persia> NCommander: Nevermind.  You're not that deeply entrenched :)
<NCommander> On debian, I run serveral m68k buildds
<NCommander> So I handle more backend stuff then packaging ;-)
<persia> Anyway, we have maintenance teams: the vast majority of the packages are maintained by MOTU, so if there are any bugs that bother you, and you have a fix, we'd like the solution.
<NCommander> I like that system.
<NCommander> I've seen packages that have bugs go a long time without being fixed
<persia> NCommander: Works well for a derivative distro: we're not so close to upstream as Debian, which can cause confusion.  There's value in Maintainers, but there's also value in collaborative maintenance.
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> I like
<NCommander> Its' just a pity Ubuntu PPC is dead :-/
<persia> It's not dead.  It works fine.  It's the third best architecture we have (of 6).
<NCommander> I thought Ubuntu supports only i386, amd64, and I think UltraSPARC
<persia> Mind you, we've about 200 FTBFS for PPC right now, but that's why we have a PPC team.
<persia> Nope.  i386, amd64, ppc, lpia, ia64, and hppa.
<NCommander> I much rather work on FTBFS. I got started in Debian as a porter (active in m68k, kfreebsd, and hurd ;-))
<sebner> NCommander: hurd ^^ not finished yet, hmm?
<persia> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs is your page for tasks then :)
<NCommander> oooooh shiny
<NCommander> Anyone want m68k ubuntu?
 * NCommander dives for cover
<persia> We don't track hppa by default, because it's a bit behind.  If you've an hppa and want to help, that team would be *hugely* appreciative.
<NCommander> If someone will give me SSH access to a hppa, I'd love to help
<persia> NCommander: I think elmo would scream at the idea of managing so many buildds.
<NCommander> We've ported hppa fixes to m68k
<NCommander> persia, He did
<NCommander> We just lost our w-b database
<NCommander> We turned one of our porters into a human w-b ;-)
<persia> NCommander: The difference being that in Ubuntu when he screams, there's no recourse.
<NCommander> (my five buildds ran off a private w-b that I created myself ;-))
<NCommander> In Ubuntu, no one can hear you bitch
<persia> !ohmy | NCommander
<ubottu> NCommander: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<NCommander> sorry
<lukehasnoname> darnit persia
<NCommander> In Ubuntu, no one can hear you *censored*
<NCommander> my apologizes ;-)
 * NCommander looks around
<persia> Happens to everyone a couple times.  We just try to stay helpful, and inviting to everyone.
<NCommander> I've got machines running ... kfreebsd-i386, mips, armel, powerpc, i386, I have half a hppa box (and by that, I mean half a logic board)
<NCommander> m68k
<persia> Well then, given the architecture overlap, there's only 350 FTBFSs you can fix :)
<sistpoty> *checkinstall* :P
<NCommander> ;-)
<sebner> !ohmy | sistpoty
<ubottu> sistpoty: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<sistpoty> heh
<sebner> :P
<lukehasnoname> so what's this joke about checkinstall?
 * persia should never have taken ohmy out of the cupboard :)
<sebner> persia: hehe
<NCommander> I've never seen any of these on the main page
<persia> lukehasnoname: It's the least favorite of all the random ways people generate .deb packages from the viewpoint of people in this channel.
<sistpoty> lukehasnoname: from earlier today... it's a bad word *g*
<persia> NCommander: Any of which?
<NCommander> THes archs
<NCommander> Aside from amd64/i386
<NCommander> (not coutning PPC since 6.04)
<persia> Oh, yeah.  Canonical only supports amd64 and i386 for hardy, so the rest don't get as much advertisement.
<lukehasnoname> Full Circle had an article on how to package
<lukehasnoname> from source
<NCommander> Well, they should at least link to it ;-)
<NCommander> Meh, the only architecture I have is two PowerPC machines
<NCommander> ANd one is half-dead
<sistpoty> NCommander: we could use some help with powerpc :)
<NCommander> I can see your FTBFS's
<NCommander> How are you doing on actual compiling power?
<sistpoty> hm?
<NCommander> autobuilders
<NCommander> I'm curious how many autobuilders your running
<sistpoty> NCommander: https://launchpad.net/+builds might give you some clue
<persia> NCommander: We're caught up except for hppa: see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds
<NCommander> It looks like the main problem with hppa is more dep-waits then actual FTBFS
<persia> Yeah, I think we've only 3 hppa buildds, and they're not so speedy :(
<NCommander> I'll admit, I'm suprised there is no arm port
<NCommander> I'd run it on my ARM box if there was
<persia> Found it: https://launchpad.net/+builds/
<sistpoty> NCommander: if you have a good entry point which package to retry on hppa, just announce it
<NCommander> entry point?
<persia> NCommander: specific package to rebuild sooner to try to get the stack to all compile.
<sistpoty> NCommander: I mean a package that other packages are waiting on, which failed to build but should build now due to dependencies having been rebuilt
<NCommander> Do you properly flag packages dep-wait on the buildd?
<NCommander> (I'm an admin on buildd.net, I can see if I can get a copy of those scripts for your autobuilder system to list dep-waits and fun stuff like that :-))
<sistpoty> NCommander: I guess wgrant might be able to give you more clue than I about this ;)I
 * NCommander takes a stick and pokes wgrant 
<persia> Well, except that our build system is closed, so we don't really know how it works that well.
<persia> he's in UTC+10, so unlikely to be awake now.
<NCommander> Oh, canonical hosts it?
<persia> Yep.  It's Soyuz from Launchpad.
<NCommander> That explains it
 * NCommander is used to users adminning their own buildds ;-)
<NCommander> Actually, I have an ubuntu one setup so I can test my packages before uploading :-)
<persia> We tend to run pbuilder or sbuild locally, although a few people have local buildds.
<NCommander> I've managed to get pbuilder to trash the chroot to the point that I had to completely redo it
<NCommander> which is why I perfer sbuild
<persia> sbuild+LVM snapshots makes all the problems go away :)
<NCommander> LVM doesn't work on m68k ;-)
<persia> Aww...
<NCommander> The m68k autobuilder network - Slightly slower then a i386!
<NCommander> (building GCC takes about a week and a half :-P)
<sebner> NCommander: O_o
<persia> That's probably why there's no Ubuntu m68k port :)
<NCommander> There is a reason why we have 20 buildds
<NCommander> Actually
<NCommander> 22 now
<NCommander> I brought two online this week
<NCommander> I think we're approaching the equivelent power of my low-end laptop :-)
<zorglu_> q. im doing a ubuntu .deb for a network daemon of mine, and it got a /etc/init.d, it doesnt seems to start at boot time (as it is supposed to :), to which init level should i init it ?
<zorglu_> i cant find the init.d for nfs and such to copy from it
<persia> zorglu_: You're using dh_installinit ?
<zorglu_> persia: nope, but the script is installed in /etc/init.d without issue and in /etc/rc2.d
<NCommander> Looking at these buildd logs, your hppa issue is its not properly handling dependencies it seems
<persia> NCommander: Quite possibly: we can assign higher priority to certain builds to tune that, but someone needs to determine the right order.
<zorglu_> runlevel output 2 so i guess the script should be in rc2.d
<NCommander> persia, Out of the box, buildd doesn't support it
<NCommander> The general process goes something like this
<NCommander> 1. Initalize a new w-b, import all non-arch-all packages
<NCommander> 2. Build base system by hand, and make it so debootstrap works
<NCommander> 3. Build packages, and then mark them dep-wait if the buildd fails (sbuild can't automatically detect this type of failure -_-)
<zorglu_> rebooting again :) debugging /etc/init.d is fun
<dirker> Hello, when trying to port the transmission package from debian to hardy, dh_clean always complains that the highest compat level it supports is 6. How can I fix that?
 * NCommander would love to know how Canonical sets these up
<NCommander> It doesn't look like they use sbuild ...
<persia> dirker: Redo the packaging to use debhelper 6 instead of debhelper 7.
<persia> NCommander: It is sbuild, but a different sbuild.
<dirker> persia: Where would I start, will slight modification be enough?
<NCommander> persia, weird. Anyone a big issue is that libgtk2 isn't built for hppa
<dirker> persia: do you mean the debian/rules?
<NCommander> Which is causing a nice domino effect of failures
<NCommander> (every gnome package is failing)
<persia> dirker: Without looking at the package, I'd probably start with hardy transmission, do a new upstream (if there is one), and rebase any additional patches.  Mind you, that's still not easy.
<NCommander> libqt is also not buil;t
<dirker> ah, debian/compat is where the 7 comes from.
<persia> dirker: Yes, but debian/rules and debian/control are going to assume that: if you change it to 6, it will likely not build correctly.
 * NCommander installs an intrepid chroot
<dirker> persia: ok, I'll try to hack my way through, if I fail I'll stick with the 1.06 ubuntu scripts and adapt them
<lukehasnoname> !patience | lukehasnoname
<ubottu> lukehasnoname, please see my private message
<NCommander> I assume the process to fix a package that FTBFS is to just file a bug with another debdiff?
<NCommander> Well, *that* explains why libnet-ssleay-perl didn't fail on Debain, but does on Ubuntu; no one ran the test suite on debian ;-)
<persia> NCommander: Indeed, that is the procedure.  Bonus points for also sending your patch to the BTS.
<NCommander> Debian BTS?
<persia> Yep.
 * NCommander looks for reportbug in Ubuntu
<NCommander> It's handy my laptop runs amd64, I can help solve FTBFS fixes at work
<NCommander> (its totally dead today, nothing to do)
<NCommander> hola doko
<NCommander> What do I change the maintainer for if its a Debian package?
<persia> NCommander: Do you mean Why change the maintainer, or to what ought you change it?  Either should be answered from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField
<NCommander> I know why
<NCommander> Its just the value of what its going to ;-)
<persia> What is usually MOTU or Core-dev, depending on whether it is in universe or main.
<NCommander> I'm already used to doing NMUs with a sponsor uploading
<NCommander> It's pretty much the same expect replace dupload with a bug on launchpad
<persia> Mostly, although we use different revision strings (e.g. -3ubuntu1), and mangle the maintainer.
<NCommander> right
<NCommander> But basically the same process
 * NCommander try to remember how to pin a repo so I can simply apt-get -t intrepid source *pkg*
<persia> Right.  So the new maintainer should be either "Ubuntu Core Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>" or "Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>", and you'll want to set XSBC-Original-Maintainer for the Debian Maintainer.
<sebner> persia: ha! I posted him a link :P
<NCommander> Someone should patch dpkg to recongize the BC-Original-Maintainer control field
<persia> sebner: You did, and I copied it from scrollback :)
<sebner> xd
<persia> NCommander: "Original-Maintainer".  The B and C put it in binary and changes, respectively.
<sebner> persia: uh, there are also Motu-mono and such things
<persia> sebner: Yes, but one should only use those if one is a member and the team is accepting responsibility for it directly.
<NCommander> X is used to tell dpkg to pass it to the other files, the the rest says where
<NCommander> I'm suprised there is no built in patch to handle that
<ScottK> sebner: Did you get a change to look at my Feisty/Guty port randomization question?
<sebner> persia: /me had to use it because a sponsor complained
<persia> ScottK: Did you want to add information about the new decision process to w.u.c/MOTU/Meetings ?
<persia> sebner: Maybe a special package then.
<ScottK> persia: I have not had a chance to think about it.  I do have it on my list.
<persia> ScottK: Understood : I just reread the minutes for 6-27, and had forgotten to poke you :)
<sebner> persia: hmm dunno xD
<ScottK> persia: OK.  Probably tomorrow PM.
<persia> ScottK: Thanks.
<NCommander> Ok, I got a fix for the FTBFS, now to do the less fun part
<lukehasnoname> for anyone who has a minute or two, glance over this how-to and yea or nay it
<lukehasnoname> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/html/fcm12_howto1.htm
<NCommander> and all fixed :-)
<NCommander> checkinstall reminds me of cpack
<NCommander> You should explain how you can use dh-prepare (or a similarly name scripted, I can't think of it off the top of my head) to automatically create the debian folder
<AstralJava> dh_make
<NCommander> thanks
<persia> lukehasnoname: Nay
<NCommander> Nah
<NCommander> ... Nay
<NCommander> the created package wouldn't fly on either debian or ubuntu
<persia> And may well break the user's system
<NCommander> See the Debian New Maintainers and Debian Packaging guide
<NCommander> It's a pretty good document on how to build a proper package
 * persia reads more carefully, seeing (and worst)
<NCommander> I don't even think dpkg could handle an uppercase DEBIAN folder
<persia> Yeah.  Definitely Nay.
<persia> Not only does the automated section advocate checkinstall or things that use checkinstall (although it does say it's the worst), the manual way is exceedlingly likely to break the builder's system.
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> What flag needs to be set to get reportbug to go to debian?
<persia> --bts=BTS ?
<NCommander> Thanks
<NCommander> I'm filing a BTS bug against the FTBFS I fixed for ubuntu
<persia> Lastly, it advocates getdeb.net, which has been the cause of several unfortunate users who had to reinstall.
<NCommander> Does ubuntu support things like Closes?
<persia> Yes.  (LP: #nnnnnn)
<NCommander> Just to make sure 1.33.01-1 becomes 1.33.01-1ubuntu1, right?
<persia> Yes.
<NCommander> Sweet
<lukehasnoname> persia: NCommander: Thanks. I was asking because I saw that earlier today, and I've been wanting to learn to package and maintain (for when I go back to college with internet). Short story, I've read that, some of the PackagingGuide on wiki, and Daniel H's video tutorials.
<persia> And hopefully gets clobbered by 1,33,01-2 later (although there is a manual review process for these, to make sure patches aren't lost)
<NCommander> Just to rebuild this package, and post the fix
<NCommander> I'm a debian packager
<NCommander> So I know the tools
<NCommander> Just needed to learn the Ubuntu way of doing things
<NCommander> If you have any generic packaging questions, ask me :-)
<persia> lukehasnoname: The wiki and videos are OK.  Try to forget the FC article as much as possible.
<NCommander> If you want to know something Ubuntu specific, don't ask me
<NCommander> lukehasnoname, http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
<slytherin> NCommander: Ubuntu way of doing things is not very different except in some cases like firefox. :-)
<lukehasnoname> persia: Sad, because it was the simplest, quickest way :( I guess I'll have to not be lazy and actually learn.
<NCommander> That's pretty much the bible for packaging for Debian-based systems
<persia> lukehasnoname: Personally, I recommend working on bugfixing first: that allows one to get familiar with the packaging without having to do it from scratch.  After a while, you'll be confident about making a new package.
 * NCommander waits for ubuntu-dev-tools to download
<persia> lukehasnoname: It's not so bad: quick lesson:
<slytherin> lukehasnoname: I second persia's opinion.
<persia> First, unpack the upstream binary.
<persia> s/binary/tarball/
<slytherin> I have learned a lot by doing minor fixes to packaging.
<persia> Second, move the tarball to foo_$(version).orig.tar.gz
<persia> Third, create a debian/ directory
<persia> Fourth, use dch --create to create an initial changelog, and put in the needs-packaging bug number
<persia> Fifth, review all the source, and create debian/copyright
<persia> Sixth, add a debian/control (I usually base this off another similar package), and make sure you have the right dependencies and build-dependencies.
<NCommander> How can I tell what repo libnet-ssleay-perl-sis from
<NCommander> universe or main?
<cody-somerville> !info libnet-ssleay-perl-sis
<ubottu> Package libnet-ssleay-perl-sis does not exist in hardy
<persia> Seventh, Create a basic debian/rules.  There are some simple examples on the wiki.
<persia> Eighth, debuild -S
<persia> Done.
<NCommander> I'd guess that means universe
<persia> NCommander: I find rmadison to be the easiest method.
<NCommander> rmadison?
<slytherin> NCommander: rmadison
<lukehasnoname> cool beans. I might take this and make a ShortPackagingGuide, haha
<persia> e.g. $ rmadison libnet-ssleay-perl-sis
<NCommander> Neat
<udienz-> hi all
<persia> You might need -u Ubuntu if you're not in an Ubuntu chroot or install.
<slytherin> udienz-: Hi
<persia> lukehasnoname: Note that I've skipped all the details: if you use my ShortPackagingGuide, you'll end up reading debian/policy fairly closely, and looking at lots of other debian/rules files.
<udienz-> slytherin: hi...
<lukehasnoname> true,.
<persia> Still, it's all about creating four (yes four) files, two of which are typically short, one of which is often a simple makefile, and the last of which is mostly just notes from reviewing the source code.
<udienz-> anyone can help me, i can't log in into revu.ubuntuwire.com, refer from ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU/ i can login with my email but i can't login with my email
<NCommander> anyone here have an amd64?
<AstralJava> NCommander: Yes, why?
<persia> udienz-: Have you already uploaded something?
<udienz-> ï»¿persia: yes i have upload twice
<slytherin> udienz-: please note that launchpad id doesn't work there
<persia> udienz-: Did you recover your password?
<NCommander> AstralJava, I just submitted my first patch to fix a FTBFS on Ubuntu
<udienz-> slytherin: mean i must login with my gpg email?
<RainCT> udienz-: yes
<NCommander> And I just wanted someone to see if someone could make sure I didn't make any bugs (I think I did it write, but I'm no MOTU)
<udienz-> ï»¿persia: yup and i got "There is no REVU account for udienz@ubuntu.com, yet."
<slytherin> udienz-: yes, and recover password, it will give you encrypted password and instructions to decrypt it
<NCommander> and what was the name of the group I should join for universe sponsors?
<RainCT> udienz-: are your uploads on the front page?
<persia> NCommander: You don't need to join the group to request sponsorship, it's those who offer sponsorship who join.
<NCommander> oh
<persia> Just subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors or ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug.
<udienz-> ï»¿RainCT: currently not, i upload my package 3 hours ago
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> d'oh
<NCommander> How do I do that O_o;
<NCommander> er, persia
<persia> NCommander: On the left side of the bug page there should be a link to subscribe someone else.
<persia> udienz-: Which package?
<NCommander> I subscribed the list
<NCommander> Will it get notified of the original bug email, or do I need to post a comment
<udienz-> ï»¿persia: dodol-theme, docang-theme
<RainCT> udienz-: are you in the Launchpad group revu-uploaders?
<persia> udienz-: Found them.  Are you a member of revu-uploaders?
<udienz-> ï»¿RainCT, persia: yes
<RainCT> udienz-: when did you join?
 * persia resyncs the keyring
<udienz-> RainCT: maybe 4/5 ago
 * NCommander looks on how he can join revu
<udienz-> my name appear at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/uploaders.list
<RainCT> NCommander: https://launchpad.net/~revu-uploaders
<persia> udienz-: If you're there, then it oughtn't be rejected.  Did you use the same key?
 * persia looks more carefully
<NCommander> I'm a member
<NCommander> But I just replaced my GPG key today
<NCommander> But the keys just got synced so ...
<persia> NCommander: And I'm just syncing now, so it ought be fine in 10 minutes or so :)
<NCommander> Sweet
 * NCommander looks on how he can get proper MOTU
<persia> Hmmm.  Not binary uploads.
<NCommander> It's fun, I actually saw my updated cvsps patch hit universe
<udienz-> ï»¿persia: no, i'm using different key
<persia> NCommander: Spend several months working on Ubuntu and demonstrate sustained significant contributions, technical skill, and wisdom about managing the packages.  After that, it's just an email.  Generally I recommend handing around here doing stuff until a couple people prod you.
<NCommander> prod me?
<persia> udienz-: That's the issue then.  REVU membership is managed by GPG keys.  You need to use the same key to prove you are the same person.
<persia> NCommander: people telling you that you should be MOTU or asking why you aren't yet.
 * slytherin is waiting for that day. :-D
<NCommander> Well, seeing an updated package already go into universe has inspired me to keep working on fixing FTBFS
<NCommander> I'd help fix the HPPA ones if soneone would give me SSH access
<NCommander> er oops
<NCommander> The libperl package was a core package
<NCommander> Argh
 * NCommander reuploads the fix
<udienz-> ï»¿persia: thanks, i know my problem now! my gpg is not sync with my lp account :D, thanks persia
<persia> udienz-: It's likely best to try to have just one GPG key, unless you've some special requirement.
<sistpoty> sebner: I have 3d back! :)
<udienz-> ï»¿persia: okay *looking for delete other GPG*
<sebner> sistpoty: how O_o
<sebner> sistpoty: recent updates?
<persia> udienz-: You can't delete a key once it's uploaded to the keyservers.
<sistpoty> sebner: dist-upgraded one hour ago, and the installed nvidia-glx-177
<sistpoty> sebner: of course changing /etc/X11//xorg.conf from nv to nvidia
<sebner> sistpoty: why dist-upgrade? and can *you* tell me what's the difference between -173 and -177?
<sistpoty> sebner: upgrade iirc only updates packages on the system... dist-upgrade will also remove old packages (if they conflict) and add new packages as per depends/recommends... not too sure though
<sistpoty> sebner: and the difference between -173 and -177 is, that I can confirm that -177 works for a GeForce 8500 GT, while I haven't tested -173
<persia> upgrade will drop old packages if there is a conflict.  Personally, I find `aptitude safe-upgrade` to be the least likely to break things (or update-manager).
<sistpoty> sebner: oh, and I was stuck at a blank screen after restarting kdm after the upgrade, so I needed to reboot
<sebner> sistpoty: well, it's kdm -> kde :P
<lamont> NCommander: you were wanting to play with parisc ftbfs bugs?
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> I'm working on the AMD64 ones out of boardem
<NCommander> Just resolved the libnet-ssleay one
<NCommander> and I see the problem with another FTBFS, so I hope to solve another one
 * NCommander is using his years of knowledge as an m68k and hurd porter :-)
<lukehasnoname> Is it ok (not going to break anything) if I use aptitude sometimes and apt-get other times?
<NCommander> lukehasnoname, It should be fine
<lamont> obviously seeing if the package is ftbfs in debian is a good early step (buildd.debian.org has links)
<NCommander> lamont, I know ;-)
<lamont> and then parisc stuff, a good starting point is http://www.parisc-linux.org/
<bobbo> For abraca in Bug #246299 would the new version number be 0.2-2ubuntu3 or 0.2-2ubuntu2build1?
 * NCommander is an active debian 68k porter :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246299 in gxmms2 "[intrepid] Rebuild with xmms2 0.5 DrLecter" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246299
<sistpoty> persia: imho apt-get dist-upgrade should work ootb, everything else is a bug (apart from e.g. dependency loop in essential packages like we had with libc and dpkg for hardy)
<lamont> I don't actually have any parisc boxen where I can make them available, though someone on one of the parisc lists probably does
<ScottK> sistpoty: I agree.
<sistpoty> ScottK: funny enough, the dependency loop wasn't fixed for a long time on sparc, leaving me to do nasty things on spooky by hand *g*
<persia> sistpoty: Right.  upgrade-manager and aptitude dist-upgrade have handlers for those problems (update-manager's mechanism is easier to do right).  For any normal case, I think apt-get upgrade should do the right thing.
<persia> (That's the difference between aptitude safe-upgrade and aptitude dist-upgrade: the latter gets more agressive about loop and confusing bits).
<ScottK> mvo's update script is a set of work-arounds that ideally we would avoid.
<persia> That requires lots more discipline than we've shown so far, but yes :)
<ScottK> Of course this isn't an ideal world.
<sistpoty> ScottK: yes, but it's not always possible on a packaging level (like dpkg dep on new libc and libc dep on new dpkg *g*)
<ScottK> Pretty much by defintion everything in there is a representation of a bug.
<ScottK> sistpoty: It's not worth the trouble to not special case some things.
<persia> Yes, but sometimes solving the bug would be exceedingly painful (as in the libc/dpkg example).
<ScottK> Exactly.
<persia> Anyway, as much as I think update-manager is useful for these special cases, I've yet to find anything in the history of Ubuntu that aptitude dist-upgrade couldn't handle (maybe with a little prodding).  apt-get dist-upgrade doesn't want to break things (which is good), so sometimes has issues.
<sistpoty> persia: it's afaict also meta-information (consider the case that ubuntu-desktop gets renamed)
<persia> sistpoty: In update-manager, yes.  In aptitude, no.  Update manager has the meta-package keys, the "critical" package list that is always force-upgraded, and the list of packages to always remove unconditionally.
<ScottK> There are issues with software raid and initramfs changes from one release to the next that need special casing too, AFAIK.
<sistpoty> persia: yes, that's what I was pointing at
<persia> ScottK: Maybe.  I haven't seen those bits, but I've mostly just looked at the front-end.
<persia> (well, and python-apt, but not the bits in the middle)
<NCommander> So are these ports of ubuntu being handled by canonical, or just being handled by interested users?
<slytherin> geser: You recently uploaded libjdic-java, right?
<ScottK> NCommander: They are community driven ports.
<NCommander> With the w-b, and hardware being run by users, or canonical?
<persia> NCommander: Well, Canonical provides all the infrastructure.  Canonical only really supports the packages in main for i386 and amd64 for hardy.
<NCommander> ah, so say if I wanted to make Ubuntu/m68k, I have to convience Canonical to buy m68ks?
<ScottK> If you want to get it into ports.ubuntu.com yes.
<ScottK> It's FOSS, so you're free to go nuts on your own too.
<persia> NCommander: Yes, but the person who makes that decision is on record being opposed.
<NCommander> I was just using that as an example
<NCommander> I'm not crazy enough to try it
<NCommander> (yet)
<persia> For some new cool arch with buildds that can complete a build cycle in reasonable time, it's mostly a matter of convincing the right people.
<NCommander> I'm suprised then there is no SH4 arch port
<geser> slytherin: yes
<geser> slytherin: why?
<slytherin> geser: just curious, I saw it on MoM.
<geser> ah, I fixed a FTBFS by adding java-gcj-compat-dev to build-depends
<sebner> geser kills the FTBFS bugs
<NCommander> That's two in an hour
<NCommander> Nice rate of bug killing
<slytherin> geser: does it built? The debian version is a new upstream version and build dep changed to Sun Java 6 from Java 5
<slytherin> geser: silly me, if you fixed FTBFS then obviously it is working.
<geser> slytherin: the old version does now, I gave the new version a quick check and IIRC it FTBFS for a different reason now
<NCommander> geser, What package?
<slytherin> geser: Well, then I will investigate it. Do you mind if I try merging it?
<geser> NCommander: libjdic-java
 * NCommander looks at the log
<geser> slytherin: no, go ahead
<NCommander> geser, Which architecture?
<geser> amd64, intrepid
<NCommander> I dont' see a build failure on amd64
<NCommander> but I'll give you a hand resolving it if you like
<NCommander> (I was working on mas on amd64)
<slytherin> NCommander: The version is repos doesn't FTBFS, it is the version he was trying to merge.
<geser> NCommander: the new version isn't in Ubuntu yet
<NCommander> Want a hand with it, or do you have it?
<geser> slytherin: libjdic-java wants xulrunner-dev now
<slytherin> geser: hmm, I am not going to take a look at it now. I guess I will try other merges. :-)
<geser> :)
<NCommander> merging?
<NCommander> I assume that's when you merge the ubuntu and debian packages?
<ScottK> Yes.  Take an updated Debian package and add needed Ubuntu diffs.
<geser> NCommander: yes, applying the Ubuntu changes on the last Debian package
<slytherin> nyes
 * ScottK idly notes that the entire Java stack on hppa is totally broken and if someone were looking for a challenge ....
 * sebner thinks that the entire java thing is b0rken xD
<persia> ScottK: porting hotspont to parisc?  That's raw madness!
 * slytherin kicks sebner for calling his favourite language broken
<persia> s/spont/spot/
<NCommander> anyone know a CPP flag that's only present when compiling AMD64 code?
<sebner> huhu norsetto
<sebner> slytherin: hrhr
<ScottK> persia: I said it would be a challenge.
<norsetto> sistpoty: Hi Supe..err Stefan; do you think somebody with superpowers can fix bug 225741 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 225741 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "/usr/bin/mysql_config --libs_r reports incorrect link flags" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/225741
<norsetto> hi sebner
<sebner> norsetto: tell me when you have time to review =)
<persia> ScottK: It's even off the upstream roadmap!  Upstream would welcome a PPC port, but hppa is, well, hppa.
<rohan> can i talk to the person who's backported flash player 10 to ubuntu hardy? i wanted to suggest that the dependency on "libflashsupport" must be removed, as kubuntu doesn't use pulseaudio
<asac> rohan: isnt that an optional dependency?
<sistpoty> hi norsetto
<rohan> asac: it is, but aptitude installs it anyway
<persia> rohan: You can block it: just ask aptitude to remove it, or use aptitude interactively.
<asac> rohan: would the other option workj better?
<rohan> ofcourse, i can tell it not to, but if kubuntu doesn't use pulseaudio, is it a nice idea to have people install it?
<sistpoty> norsetto: I think it shouldn't be too hard to fix (might involve fiddling with autotools, haven't looked at the source package yet though).
<rohan> installing libflashsupport has caused firefox to crash many times
<rohan> before i realized that i don't even have pulseaudio
<norsetto> sistpoty: well, the simplest I think would be to unexport LDFLAGS from debian/rules
<sistpoty> norsetto: maybe infinity would be interested (as he's in uploaders from debian, though I guess nobse did the recent unstable uploads)
<rohan> shouldn't libbflashsupport atleast depend on pulseaudio/
<asac> rohan: please replace libflashsupport with the other option and tell us if it does what you want
<slytherin> rohan: you are using a beta version from backport and you are afraid of crashes. :-)
<rohan> asac: which other option?
<asac> rohan: its a Depends: liflashsupport | something-else
<asac> install something else
<rohan> slytherin: no, even with the older flashplugin-nonfree, firefox crashed
<asac> ;)
<norsetto> sistpoty: they won't have this problem in Debian, its just our dpkg-buildpackage
<rohan> asac: no, libflashsupport is a "Suggested" package
<asac> then there is no problem ;)
<asac> i think in flash 10 its a depends again
<asac> if the backporter demoted it to suggested then its correct imo
<sistpoty> norsetto: imho they *do* have this problem, it's just not a problem yet (which is that mysql-config gets generated with anything in LDFLAGS, whether its sane or not)
<rohan> asac: but not correct for kubuntu users, who might inadvertantly install it and have their firefox crash
<asac> rohan: libflashsupport was a suggest from the beginning
<rohan> and i'm really really surprised why they chose not to use pulseaudio for kubuntu
<norsetto> sistpoty: unless their change their defaults to !"", why would they have a problem!?
<rohan> asac: ah ok, didn't know that
<rohan> 01:55 < rohan> and i'm really really surprised why they chose not to use pulseaudio for kubuntu ---> anyone know why?
<norsetto> sistpoty: ok, you mean that mysql-config shouldn't use the LDFLAGS passed to it during build at all
<sistpoty> norsetto: yes, exactly... that's not the purpose of mysql-config
<sistpoty> norsetto: with --libs it should give the *necessary library flags (and compile flags) to compile/link against mysql, not anything apart from that
<norsetto> sistpoty: hmm, wonder if mysql-config will end as ffmpeg-config :-)
<sistpoty> heh
<slytherin> geser: Verification and ack needed, bug #247712
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247712 in statcvs "Please sync statcvs 1:0.4.0.dfsg-2 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247712
<slytherin> geser: And please do it before someone from bug-squad start making useless changes like marking it wishlist etc.
<norsetto> geser: and please make us some coffee while you are at it :-)
<geser> norsetto: I don't drink coffee
<norsetto> geser: who said we will offer it to you?
<sebner> lol
<sebner> geser: you're now norsettos slave :P
<geser> norsetto: oh, motu has one of those coffee machines that can be controlled over the internet?
 * slytherin passes cup of java to norsetto on geser's behalf. :-P
<Mez> bddebian, ping
<norsetto> sebner: be careful, you should know that geser its 2.1 m, weights 120 kg and its a black belt karate player ...
<bdrung> bobbo: ping
 * sebner hides
 * sebner is 1.9m weights 70kg and can cry like a little girl xD
<slytherin> norsetto: That description reminds me of Liu Kang from Mortal Kombat :-)
<NCommander> rofl
<NCommander> Man, I hate imake with a passion
<persia> NCommander: Port it to something else.  Pass upstream :p
<NCommander> Upstream appears to be dead
<persia> Ah.  That makes it trickier then.
<norsetto> NCommander: well, its your opportunity, become upstream and kill it :-)
<geser> norsetto: Hacking Coffee Makers http://www.securityfocus.com/archive/1/493387
<NCommander> TOo much effort
<NCommander> Not enough reward ;-)
<persia> NCommander: Umm.  You'd never have to troubleshoot imake-related FTBFS for the package again?  That's not a reward?
<geser> norsetto: I don't remember that we already met :)
<NCommander> I could just grab another package ;-)
<NCommander> I don't get why this doesn't FTBFS on debian ...
<norsetto> geser: hehe, and its even possible it violates the GPL ;-)
<slytherin> geser: Do you need any inputs form me on that bug? I will hit bed soon.
<NCommander> I could do a quick and dirty hack to fix this, or fix it the right way ...
<geser> slytherin: about the dependency on sun-jdk: isn't it needed anymore? I can't find a hint in the debian changelog why we can drop it
<slytherin> geser: It build with GCJ. I added a note at the end.
<geser> ah, didn't expect to find the rationale at the end :)
<slytherin> geser: Do you suggest adding rationale at the start for bugs henceforth?
<geser> it's usually placed before the Debian changelog
<slytherin> Ok
<geser> I usually check if the Ubuntu changes (or the rationale) are mentioned in the Debian changelog and skip the rest if I've seen everything (especially when the changelog is longer)
<slytherin> will keep in mind
 * ScottK notes the existence of python-twitter and feels old.
 * NCommander grumbles
<NCommander> How bad of a hack would it be if I made it not use a platform specific function and had it use a generic one to get it to build?
<slytherin> NCommander: Personally, I will not call it a hack, but a fix. :-)
<NCommander> It will probably spur the project alive on all Ubuntu architectures
<NCommander> It's a problem that the linux API it used seems to have changed
<geser> slytherin: what about the runtime dependency? as even the changelog mentions that it doesn't run with gcj?
<geser> slytherin: Depends: java-gcj-compat | java-runtime, will that pick a working one?
<slytherin> geser: As far as I understand, previously it was using Sun specific API and hence needed SUn JDK/JRE. But now since it builds with GCJ should also run fine with it. If not then theer is always 'java-runtime' virtual package
<geser> slytherin: if that's not a problem we can move it after the sync to universe
<slytherin> geser: The package is very young in Debian unstable. We can keep a watch to see if any bugs appear about running with gij
<NCommander> Ugh
<NCommander> this package uses -Dlinux as a symbol
<NCommander> *wimper*
<sistpoty> as a symbol?
<NCommander> Er
<NCommander> as a macro
<NCommander> sorry
<NCommander> Out of it
<NCommander> er, define
<sistpoty> heh
<NCommander> I'm debating giving up
<sistpoty> why shouldn't it, that's not too uncommon
<geser> slytherin: ACKed
<NCommander> I thought lowercase linux was reserved
<slytherin> geser: Thanks. :-)
<NCommander> wait ... wtf
<NCommander> Damn it
<geser> slytherin: I've also asked the archive admins to move it to universe afterwards
<NCommander> I think this is a bug in intrepid
<NCommander> The asm/byteorder.h in intrepid doesn't compile it seems
<slytherin> geser: Thanks for that. I was wondering if I would have to file bug for it.
<sistpoty> NCommander: I can't think why it should be (true, you'd rather use uppercase letters for macros)... but OTOH I can't imaging any (core) library, having a symbol called "linux" in it
<NCommander> I found my bug
<NCommander> http://pastebin.ca/1069490 - diff between hardy and intrepid byteswap.h
<NCommander> Breaks mas
<NCommander> and probably anything that compiles byteswap
<NCommander> or not
<NCommander> ... *hits head on desk some more*
<sistpoty> NCommander: doesn't reall seem to be a problem, as both are identical (unless s.th. depending on the header defines asm as s.th. else)
<NCommander> I should say I found whats causing my problem
<NCommander> The change in header file causes the package to self-destruct -_-;
<NCommander> Bah
<NCommander> I'll deal with this package later
<sebner> gn8 folks
<NCommander> night
<slytherin> geser: Will you do me a favour. If you find blueyed before me tomorrow, please ask him to do sponsorship for batik.
<geser> slytherin: sure
<slytherin> geser: Thanks. Going now. Bye, see you sometime tomorrow.
 * NCommander finishs another FTBFS
<NCommander> which really wasn't an FTBFS
 * NCommander fixes purelibc
<NCommander> I'm on a roll today
<persia> \o\ |o| /o/
<NCommander> rofl
<NCommander> Scary what I could do if I had a hppa box
<NCommander> *shot a few hundred times*
<persia> NCommander: Just FYI, if it doesn't need any source changes, and it's on those lists, you can ask in this channel for a rebuild.
<persia> Or "give-back", as we tend to call it.
<NCommander> heh
<NCommander> give-backs are fun
 * NCommander has had a buggy buildd take and give-back every ackage in the debian archive once
<persia> Oops!
<NCommander> THat was fun
<NCommander> So two actual patches, and one give-back :-)
<NCommander> How do I request a patch marked Not-For-Us for an architecture
<persia> NCommander: Has to go in P-a-s (yes, the same P-a-s)
<persia> So, same people, same email, same process.
<NCommander> *groan*
<NCommander> I'll let someone else deal with that headache
<persia> It's just a quick email :)
 * sistpoty wonders how a patch can be marked not-for-us
<NCommander> sistpoty, You have to put in the patch the architecture to remove from the control file
<NCommander> Or the package will never move from sid -> testing
<NCommander> (on Debian)
<NCommander> Ok, the bugs in launchpad
 * NCommander waits for some kinda MOTU to upload them
<persia> Wait.  What!  Arch-specific patches?  We don't like those.
<sistpoty> NCommander: actually the architecture in control file will only cause a FTBFS on an architecture not listed in there
<NCommander> No, I mean if its Architecture: any
<NCommander> THen you need to change it to Architecture: any !amd64
<NCommander> or uh
<NCommander> SOmething like that
<sistpoty> NCommander: yes, that's what p-a-s is for
<NCommander> I thought it had to be both in the control file and p-a-s
<sistpoty> NCommander: nonetheless it doesn't mean a *patch* is suitable for an architecture ;)
<sistpoty> (as a patch is applied to the source package, not to a binary package)
<NCommander> Point taken.
<sistpoty> heh, I guess /me is picky tonight about right nomenclature *g*
<NCommander> wow, my karma almost went double
<persia> NCommander: That7s what contributing will do :)
<NCommander> I'm out of universe FTBFS ;.;
<NCommander> well, amd64 specific
<persia> Well, go for main then.
 * persia thought there was about 130, so being "out" seems extreme.
<NCommander> persia, amd64 specific
<NCommander> aka, only ones that fail on amd64 only
<NCommander> Now I'm working on less specific ones
<persia> NCommander: Well, there's still all the ones that also fail on amd64 ...
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> I'm having fun with this
<NCommander> I dunno why
<NCommander> persia, any good FTBFS's I should fix
<geser> NCommander: Arch: all packages are listed as i386 so you might want to look at those too (they will likely also FTBFS if you try them to build on AMD64)
<geser> you might also want to look at packages in DEPWAIT and figure out why they are in DEPWAIT
<persia> NCommander: pbuilder might be nice, ardour has an annoying scons issue, ggz-* is probably related, iscsitarget is likely another kernel ABI change, kfreebsd-6 might be an interesting challenge, I'd like nemiver to work again, someone was asking about nginx earlier.
<NCommander> I'll work on pbuilder, that may be important ;-)
<NCommander> E: Unable to find a source package for pbuiler
<NCommander> Argh
<geser> add a "d"
<NCommander> whoops
<NCommander> It's getting that time of the day
<NCommander> time to get some dinner
<geser> NCommander: there is also a question about gambas2 on amd64 (https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gambas2/+question/38874). The upstream homepage mentions that it now works also on 64bit.
<geser> persia: the pbuilder DEPWAIT is because dvipdfmx is in universe and needs either a promotion to main or get removed from depends of texlive-tetex
<geser> texlive-xetex
<persia> geser: Ah.  I was just picking likely package names.
<NCommander> I thought pbuilder FTBFS
<geser> NCommander: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ lists it as a FTBFS but when you look at the build log it's because of texlive-xetex not being installable
<NCommander> Thanks
 * NCommander looks at ardour
<NCommander> What does that do specifically anyway?
<geser> true, my memory was wrong as it's not a DEPWAIT but a FTBFS but the reason should be hopefully correct. It's some days since I looked into it in detail.
<NCommander> ardour looks like an evil one
<udienz-> persia: i cannot login into revu.ubuntuwire.com again. same case again :D my account not indentified
<NCommander> nginix doesn't look like a bad one to fix
<persia> udienz-: Yes.  You have to upload with the key that is registered with REVU.  After you've done that, you can recover the password for the email address for that key.
<NCommander> SHould I upload my fixed patches to REVU
<NCommander> packages
<NCommander> Or just file reports
<persia> NCommander: REVU is for team-review of packages before submission to NEW.  If you're working on existing packages, no reason to use REVU.
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> cool
<NCommander> Its essentially the NEW Incoming, right?
<NCommander> ^REVU Is
<NCommander> Broken, my grammar is. Fix it, I must.
<udienz-> persia: i have done upload 3 packages at motu, maybe i'm waiting for syncronizing?
<persia> NCommander: REVU is like mentors, except only for pre-NEW packages.
<persia> udienz-: You've uploaded with the GPG key in the uploaders keyring?
<NCommander> persia, ah
<udienz-> persia: mean motu keyring? no, i've uploaded with my keyring
<persia> udienz-: OK.  You have a key listed on the REVU uploaders keyring, right?
<udienz-> persia: right, but with my old keyring :D
<persia> udienz-: Do you still have control of that secret key.
<udienz-> persia: yup
<persia> udienz-: Then use that key to upload.
<udienz-> persia: okay..
<NCommander> bugger
<NCommander> If I have to add a patch system to a package, is there any preference?
<RainCT_> good night
<NCommander> ping motu ;-)
<persia> NCommander: First, make sure there's no patches in the diff.gz.
<NCommander> didn't see any aside from the debian folder
<persia> Then, check other packages by the same Maintainer to see if they have a preference (easier to get in Debian if one uses the patch system the Maintainer prefers).
<persia> If those don't give guidance, and it's CDBS, use simple-patchsys.
<NCommander> Nope, no CDBS
<persia> If none of those give you a patch system, pick your favorite.
<NCommander> *grumbles*
<NCommander> persia, you use dpatch or quilt
<persia> NCommander: Yes.
<NCommander> persia, No, I mean what do you perfer?
#ubuntu-motu 2008-07-12
 * NCommander usually uses dpatch
<persia> NCommander: I really don't care.  I use what's there, or what the Maintainer likes, or what whoever is reviewing a new package on Mentors likes.
 * persia is likely the least good person to ask about patch system preferences, having only one strong opinion: it doesn't make sense to have a patch system and changes outside debian/ in diff.gz.
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> That bugs the crap out of me
<NCommander> I think its against policy now
<persia> It ought be, if it's not.  I don't mind if someone does just diff.gz patches (although it's nicer when they have a VCS), but mixing is just evil.
<NCommander> persia, its usually older ones that aren't
<NCommander> But there is virtually no oversight with DD package submissions
<persia> That's why we have REVU: helps get team review of everything.  While there is the occasional package that misses REVU, most things have at least two sets of eyes, and sometimes four or five before they get uploaded.
<NCommander> Because no MOTU can directly upload to incoming, right?
<persia> Well, anyone can, but anyone who does is likely to have someone else ask them about it.
<persia> Questions like "Who did the second ACK for that?" or "Why didn't you put it on REVU?".  Nobody likes trying to come up with an answer, so we just use REVU.
<persia> REVU logs all the uploads and comments to a public list, so it's easy to audit against -changes mail.
<NCommander> Cool
<NCommander> I actually think debian should adopt that system
<NCommander> But man, people would go apeshit if anyone every suggested it
<devfil> NCommander: Debian uses mentors.debian.net
<persia> There was some talk about it, both the REVU code and the process.  Last I knew it was stalled.
<NCommander> I have NEVER seen a DD use that
<devfil> NCommander: if a DD don't use it is a problem, but mentors exists
<persia> I've seen DDs in collaborative teams upload to VCS and ask for comments before uploading, which is at least an example of good process.
<NCommander> There just isn't any oversight
<NCommander> But the DD process is so rigid, it weeds out a lot of .... lesser developers
<NCommander> So my changes will go on REVU, and then intro intrepid?
<persia> NCommander: Maybe.  It tries.  Personally, I find agressive peer review of most changes to be almost as good in terms of patch quality.
<persia> Nope.  Your changes go to the sponsors queue, where a second person looks at them, and uploads.
<persia> MOTU upload patches like that directly.
<persia> The changes are then posted, and as all the packages are team-maintained, we all have an interest in fixing any broken uploads (no NMU barrier).
 * NCommander looks forward to some of his FTBFS fixes going
<NCommander> This is the third one today (not counting the giveback)
<devfil> persia: no maintainer in ubuntu is a great thing, in Debian I see a lot of package not updated because the maintainer is away
 * NCommander is guility of that >.>;
<persia> devfil: Yes, but no Maintainer in Debian is a bad thing: Ubuntu relies on the Debian maintainers to develop good relationships with upstream.  We do in some special cases (like you with WX), but in most cases, we're too busy chasing all the little bugs to concentrate properly on each package.
<NCommander> What I never get is how some packages seem to be not buildable on normal linux systems
<NCommander> And usually require one or two big patches
<persia> NCommander: Different envionment used upstream (e.g. Solaris).
<NCommander> I mean with Debian packages
<persia> Yes, as do I.
<NCommander> i.e., nginx
<NCommander> It requires IOV_MAX to be defined
<NCommander> But its not defined on Linux
<persia> I thought nginx upstream used Mac OS X.
<NCommander> I fixed it by aliasing it to the equivelent preprocessor macro (UIO_MAXIOV)
<NCommander> But the package is in debian stable
<NCommander> and it built on unstable without such a fix
<NCommander> I don't get it ...
<persia> Check the m68k logs?
<NCommander> maybe-successful
<NCommander> It always bugs me
<NCommander> Oh, hrm
<NCommander> very weird
<NCommander> hrm, oh I see
<NCommander> YOu need to define __need_IOV_MAX it appears to get it
<NCommander> Must be a change in glibc
<NCommander> do any of you run intrepid directly?
<nhandler> NCommander, I run Intrepid directly
<persia> Many of us, and those that don't have intrepid chroots for testing.
<NCommander> I'm running the chroot
<NCommander> I ran into issues when I ran gutsy directly
 * NCommander uploads nginx
 * NCommander reviews the list of FTBFS again
 * NCommander waits patiently for one patch to just reach revu ;-)
<persia> REVU?  On what are you waiting?
<NCommander> You said that someone will likely put the updated package files to REVU for review ...
<persia> No.  NEW package go to review.  Current packages get reviewed by the sponsors.  Other people watch -changes, and complain if there is a bad upload. (well, some people both sponsor and watch changes, but...)
<NCommander> ack
<persia> Err.  NEW packages go to REVU.  Other packages get reviewed.
 * NCommander hides under his desk for being an idiot :-)
 * persia gets confused by homonyms again
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> Five diet cokes
<NCommander> I think I can kiss sleep goodnight
<NCommander> So, instead, I'm waiting for one of my packages to get reviewed, and someone to smite me and tell me to try again ;-)
<NCommander> I'm going home, see you all laptop
<NCommander> ...;
<NCommander> later
<cody-somerville> NCommander, cya :)
<nxvl> persia: why did you delete last line of the wiki?
<nxvl> persia: to much attention for you?
<nxvl> :p
<sistpoty> persia: looking at /srv/uploads/rejected, maybe a keying sync would be adequate (together with moving the .changes files back to /srv/uploads)?
<sistpoty> ;)
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: oh, sorry, I just finished going through the key-teams thread, and I doubt I'll have a summary before going to sleep
<cody-somerville> sistpoty, How far away is that?
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: quite a bit... I just finished pasting any significant bit (and reading through it)
<cody-somerville> I meant, how far away is going to sleep?
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: actually going to sleep is in the next half hour
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: but as I haven't really structured plain comments yet, I don't think I'll be able to this during that timeframe
<cody-somerville> Okay.
<cody-somerville> Do you want to aim for gobbying it tomorrow?
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: I'll try... but actually I'm not certain I'll do it
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: bad thing is, that I'll be mostly afk from somewhen tomorrow afternoon to sunday evening (utc+2 pov)
<sistpoty> (we have 10 year class meeting this weekend)
<sistpoty> cody-somerville: not too sure how best to proceed actually... if you come up with s.th., I guess it might be better to just sent it to -motu...
<sistpoty> (sorry again)
<cody-somerville> ok
 * sistpoty goes to bed now... cya
<udienz-> sistpoty: is revu server re-sync again?
<NCommander> What are SRU bugs?
<cody-somerville> NCommander, SRU stands for "Stable Release Updates". You can find more information regarding SRUs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Drk_Guy> REVU hasn't synced
<NCommander> cody-somerville, Thank you :-)
<cody-somerville> NCommander, np
<NCommander> cody-somerville, I just migrated from Debian to Ubuntu, and spent most of the afternoon fixing FTBFS ;-)
<cody-somerville> NCommander, Awesome :)
<cody-somerville> NCommander, did you push your changes upstream where appropriate?
<NCommander> I filled bug reports with Debian if that's what you mean
 * cody-somerville nods,.
<NCommander> I got a rather angry email saying not to bug him about FTBFS's on Ubuntu :-/
<NCommander> I'd just want to get some review on my debdiffs
<persia> Some Maintainers are like that, although most are happy to adopt.  In many cases, it also FTBFS in Debian (always good to check), which can help get them adopted.
<NCommander> I'm fairly sure I did it all right
<NCommander> Can I simply debootstrap an i386 chroot on aamd64 system, or do I need to do something stupid?
<persia> NCommander: You can debootstrap both i386 and lpia on amd64
<NCommander> What is lpia?
<persia> Low Power Intel architecture.  It's a low-power memory-limited i686 with no VMX, etc.
<NCommander> Google tells me its the libertarian party of iowa, but I don't think thats right ;-)
<NCommander> That sounds like the Asus EEE and friends
<NCommander> (aka Intel Atom based machines)
<persia> Chips that it runs on today are Intel A100, Intel A110, and Intel Atom.  For userspace, it's not really that different than i386.  The kernel is a little different.
<persia> Well, most Eee s are actually VIA C7-M, which is a i586 based chip, and can't boot an lpia kernel.
<NCommander> i586?
<NCommander> Ew.
<NCommander> I'm suprised
<persia> There's a few i586s out there still.  Probably some i486s too, although I'm not sure Ubuntu supports those.
<persia> I know we don't support real i386s (and never have).
<NCommander> I think Ubuntu compiled targetting i386 like Debian
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> Hrm
<NCommander> No clue then
<persia> No, even in the beginning it was i486.  Anyway, I don't think lenny will run on a real i386 without some significant tinkering.
<NCommander> Which leads into the next question, what specifically is a softfreeze?
<persia> During a soft freeze, we avoid uploading anything that ends up on one of the images for the test.  For this freeze, it's Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, and Ubuntu Server.  Ubuntu Studio, Ubuntu Mobile, and Mythbuntu aren't participating in the Alpha for one reason or another.
<NCommander> So that means things like FTFBS fixes aren't going to move?
<persia> NCommander: Only for things that end up on the CDs.  The Freeze ought be ending soon anyway.
<NCommander> The CDs is just main, or main and select universe?
<persia> select main and select universe.
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> Can I cast a pointer on a i686/32-bit as unsigned long?
<NCommander> (that's the fix for this package on amd64, but I don't want to then cause a FTBFS on i686 ;-))
<persia> I believe so.
<persia> Anyway, we don't have i686, just i586 and lpia, neither of which is quite an i686.
<NCommander> Close enough ;-)
<RAOF> NCommander: If you're going to do pointer arithmetic, intptr_t is the winning type.
<NCommander> intptr_t?
<RAOF> It's an int which is guaranteed to be big enough to hold a pointer.
<NCommander> Should I just use that inplace of the cast for unsigned long?
<RAOF> Presumably you need a bit more than just an unsigned long cast, though?
<RAOF> You need to actually change the destination type?
<RAOF> Or were they doing something strange like "unsigned long ptr = (int)the_pointer;"?
<RAOF> Of course, casting to unsigned long isn't portable; that will definately fail on win64, for example.
<NCommander> neither is intptr_t
<RAOF> intptr_t should be supported by any C89 (C99?) compiler.
<NCommander> Well, it was doing just a unsigned int cross
<persia> C99 I'd think.
<NCommander> and it works for me now
<emgent> hello people
<RAOF> Howdie.
<NCommander> ROAF: thanks for that hint, it works great :-)
<RAOF> Care to work out why mcs segfaults while compiling evolution-sharp on AMD64 in a clean chroot for me, then? :)
<NCommander> ROAF: If you can work on reviewing my FTBFS fixes ;-)
<Hobbsee> oh yeah, motu meeting
<emgent> Hobbsee: ? :)
 * Hobbsee forgot about it, but wasn't here anyway
<emgent> Who is emma?
<Hobbsee> you don't want to know
<Hobbsee> either way, she can come and lurk now
<Hobbsee> emgent: we've had a fair bit of trouble with her in userland.
<crimsun> hmm?  As in being obnoxious, or..?
<Hobbsee> crimsun: yeah, mainly.  prattling on about how irseek is so evil, because it's in the channel, ignoring ithe calls that she's offtopic, arguing for hours any time she gets told off or banned, and kept advertising her channel to users.
<Hobbsee> whihc, oddly enough, people were reporting as abuse.
<Hobbsee> she caused enough trouble to get an #*ubuntu*-wide channel ban.
<emgent> argh
<RAOF> I need to make xserver-xgl build again.  In order to do this, I need to include the mesa source somewhere.  The .orig.tar.gz would be more appropriate than in the .diff, right?
<RAOF> Oh, crap.  That'd mean I'd need to include the appropriate copyright stuff.  Urgh.
<Hobbsee> emgent: so, she's partially reformed.  She still sticks random stuff in channels, like ':)', and doesn't contribute terribly useful, and still argues for hours when she gets told off, though.  But it seems there's progress, so she can lurk.
<Hobbsee> s/useful/usefully/
<emgent> understand :)
<crimsun> Hobbsee: hmm, if this is the same 'emma', I'll have a face-to-face chat, or have someone speak to her.
<crimsun> we're all in the same city
<Hobbsee> oh, interesting.  could have used your help a couple of months ago
<NCommander> RAOF, what was that package you wanted me to check on?
<RAOF> NCommander: evolution-sharp.  That wasn't serious, though I'd _love_ you to find out the reason.
<crimsun> Hobbsee: heh, I'm kinda scarce these days, so I'm not useful.  :)
<RAOF> It's awkward and annoying, and probably a mono bug.
<NCommander> RAOF, are you a MOTU by any chance?
<RAOF> Yah.
<NCommander> RAOF, if I fix it, will you review my pending FTBFS fixes ;-)
<RAOF> Absolutely.  How many of them?
<NCommander> 4 or 5
<NCommander> I lost count ;-)
<NCommander> I didn't have anything to do this afternoon ...
<RAOF> I'll certainly look at them if you fix evolution-sharp :)
<NCommander> Building GCC on m68k is a slow process
<RAOF> Heh.
<RAOF> I'll possibly look at them anyway, but after breakfast :)
<NCommander> RAOF, 7-10 days on average for m68k
<NCommander> The error I see evolution-data-server is too new O_o?
<RAOF> NCommander: You're looking at the wrong packages, then.  You're after evolution-sharp 0.17.4-0ubuntu1
<RAOF> Where mcs segfaults on amd64 only.
<NCommander> the buildload on qa.ubuntuwire.com is old then
 * NCommander looks on amd64
<NCommander> link to your buildlog?
<RAOF> It was on launchpad, but apparently it's being rebuilt?
<RAOF> What's happening there?
<NCommander> Where on launchpad
<NCommander> (I use the qa page)
<NCommander> (but it seems to sometimes lag on newer packages)
<NCommander> *grumbles* it did successfully build on unstable
<RAOF> launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-sharp
<RAOF> No, I don't think it did; they have 0.17.1.
<NCommander> I don't see failure logs
<RAOF> It's quite possible that the same package _will_ build on unstable, though...
<RAOF> NCommander: Yeah.  For some reason it's getting rebuilt.
<RAOF> Wait a couple of minutes, and it'll fail.
<RAOF> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-sharp/0.17.4-0ubuntu1/+build/666561
<RAOF> There we go!
<NCommander> oooh
<NCommander> What a misirble failure
<NCommander> RAOF, what's your timezone?
<RAOF> GMT+10
<RAOF> Moar pancakes!
<ion_> gief
<NCommander> heh
<NCommander> -5 GMT here
<ion_> :%s/GMT/UTC/g
<RAOF> Hm.  It seems something's filing automated FTBFS bugs, but not doing it correctly.
<RAOF> I posit the recently-reopened: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution-sharp/+bug/194456 as a symptom.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194456 in evolution-sharp "FTBFS in latest archive rebuild test" [High,Confirmed]
<Hobbsee> RAOF: when was that closed?
<RAOF> In Hardy, methinks.
<RAOF> Or, rather, it wasn't visible when I checked the bugs yesterday.
<RAOF> Which, I assume, means it was closed.  I belive that hardy's evolution-sharp did build from source.
<NCommander> ROAF: Any idea what's causing this FTFBS?
<Hobbsee> activity log doesn't show it being closed.
<RAOF> Oooh, never noticed that button.
<Hobbsee> yeah, i remember seeing a uvfe for it, and approving it - but i wouldn't bet that bug got closed as well
<RAOF> Hm.  I wonder what happened, then.
<RAOF> I really wasn't visible yesterday!
<NCommander> UVFE?
<RAOF> NCommander: No, I really dont' have any good ideas.
<Hobbsee> NCommander: upstream version freeze exception
<NCommander> What have you tried?
 * NCommander is right now thinking connecting gdb to mcs is the easiest way to find where the bug is
<RAOF> I've tried that, but mono is not very amenable to gdb.
<NCommander> It should at least show you where the SIGSERV is though o_O;
<RAOF> I've got a core file if you'd like to check :)
<NCommander> That would be handy
<NCommander> I'm reading tips on using GDB with mono
<NCommander> RAOF, I'm probably going to guess a pointer is getting mutated somewhere
<NCommander> Just suprising its only happening on amd64
<RAOF> Right.
<RAOF> Also surprising: only happens in a clean chroot.  I can build it just fine in my Intrepid install.
<NCommander> My chroot isn't clean
<NCommander> (I have some cruft in it)
<NCommander> and it still SIGSERVed
<ion_> SERV?
<RAOF> NCommander: http://cooperteam.net/core
<NCommander> *SIGSEGV
<NCommander> This backtrace is real pretty
<NCommander> But it looks like its tripping a bug in pthreads ....
<NCommander> pthread_cond_wait@@GLIBC_2.3.2
<NCommander> WTF?
<RAOF> That's not necessarily where it died, though.
<RAOF> That could just be where some non-segfaulting thread was when mono died, right?
<NCommander> It's always dying in the same place
<NCommander> EVen after running it a bunch of times
<NCommander> Sometime makes a thread, and bing, diad
<NCommander> *dead
<NCommander> I just don't get why its @@GLIBC_2.3.2
<NCommander> libc6-dbg gets me symbols, right?
<RAOF> Yeah.  Or libc6-dbgsym.  Doesn't really matter which.
<NCommander> At least there is a mon-dbg package
<NCommander> well, installing symbols makes a lot more interesting debug data
<NCommander> RAOF, it's a memcpy() call that's triggering the code to go boom
<RAOF> Hm.  Another data point: that package builds just fine in sid.
<RAOF> It might be time to start looking at ubuntu-applied mono patches.
<NCommander> I'm trying to localize where in the native code its oblierating itself
<NCommander> maybe its worth building mono sans patchs and see if this builds
<RAOF> Quite possibly.
<NCommander> Argh
<NCommander> I can't see what the arguements are to memcpy
<RAOF> :(
<NCommander> What's the command to make it load symbols for a library
<NCommander> (I haven't used GDB in awhile)
<NCommander> What. The. ****.
<NCommander> It just built
<NCommander> I cd'ed into evolution and typed make
<NCommander> and
<NCommander> ... it built
<RAOF> Yeah, it does that.
<NCommander> wtf O_O;
<RAOF> Sometimes it builds, sometimes it doesn't.
<RAOF> Although it seems to _always_ fail in automated environments.
<Drk_Guy> this is pissing me off
<NCommander> Sounds like a *shiver* thread locking issue
<NCommander> It always builds if I cd into the evolution folder
<RAOF> Maybe it's a path thing?
<NCommander> Maybe
<NCommander> I'm tweaking the rules file to figure it out
<RAOF> Because I found strange things happening running the compile command manually.
<RAOF> mcs <stuff goes here> generated/*.cs dies, mcs <...> generated/Addresswhatever.cs died, cp generated/Addresswhatever.cs .; mcs <...> Addresswhatever.cs didn't segfault.
<NCommander> man
<NCommander> It's really not happy
<RAOF> Yeah.
<RAOF> There's some sort of madness happening.
<RAOF> Hm. Maybe it's the length of the command line?
<NCommander> The max command line on Linux is 128kb
<RAOF> Does mono amd64 know about that? :)
<NCommander> Hrm
<NCommander> Maybe it just randomly managed to build on Debian
<NCommander> A random fluke
<RAOF> I don't think so.
<NCommander> The Debian version is older it seems
<NCommander> according to the changelog
<RAOF> Oh, it is.  But I'm building the new package in a sid chroot.
<NCommander> If that doesn't fail
<RAOF> It doesn't.
<NCommander> THen it's either an issue with the evolution API or our mono
<NCommander> ****
<NCommander> Any ideas?
<RAOF> Oooh, that's a fair point; we have a different evolution API, too.
<NCommander> If it was real time code that was dying this would be easier
<RAOF> I'm going to install some Sid mono packages in an Intrepid chroot, see if that flies.
<NCommander> But this is the equivelent debugging GCC
<NCommander> I'm currently running --trace on mcs
<NCommander> Seeing if I can catch where the compiler bombs
<NCommander> RAOF, the bug doesn't occcur when mcs is in ttrace mode
<NCommander> RAOF, and the freaking trace log is 2.1GB O_O;
<NCommander> RAOF, ping
<RAOF> NCommander: :(
<RAOF> Builds fine with sid's mcs.
<NCommander> d'oh
<NCommander> At least we ruled out the evolution API
<RAOF> Right.
<NCommander> and tells us the problem is specifically with mcs
<NCommander> Now we play the patch elimiation game
<RAOF> Yeah.
<NCommander> Want to check out my FTFBS fixes as a break, I'll work on seeing if I can figure out what patch is doing it
<RAOF> Win.
<RAOF> They're in the u-u-s queue?
<NCommander> u-u-s?
<RAOF> Ubuntu universe sponsors
<NCommander> I added them to the universe queue
<NCommander> Expect for the one which was a main package
<RAOF> Right.
<NCommander> should be
<NCommander> mcurs, purelibc, and ngix
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> nginx
<NCommander> RAOF, I also submitted a fix for libnet-ssleay-perl, but I don't think your a core developer
<RAOF> True.
<NCommander> (and we're in a soft freeze)
<NCommander> All that experience as a debian-porter is paying off
<NCommander> (pity its not paying off on my way to be a DD, but eh)
<RAOF> Hm.  Those fixes should really be attached to the bug as debdiffs.
<RAOF> Unless it's also a new upstream version?
<NCommander> I uploaded the debdiffs O_o;
<RAOF> You uploaded the .diff.gz
<RAOF> Which isn't quite the same; a debdiff (generated by debdiff, oddly enough ;)) is generally a nice, small, reviewable patch against the existing package.
<NCommander> Whoops
<NCommander> I can fix that >.<;
<NCommander> I never generated those before, when someone said debdiff, I thought they meant the diff file autogenerated
<RAOF> !debdiff
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about debdiff
<RAOF> Oooh, that's a bit of an oversight :)
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> Whoops
<NCommander> Let me generate those debdiffs
<NCommander> I apologize
<RAOF> No problem at all.
<NCommander> I'm getting weird output fron debdiff
<NCommander> oh wait
<NCommander> THat's right
<NCommander> RAOF, I'm generating them now
<NCommander> RAOF, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dmucs/+bug/247767
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247767 in dmucs "For for FTFBS on 64-bit architectures" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> RAOF, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/247745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247745 in nginx "Fix for FTBFS on i386/amd64 and other archs" [Undecided,New]
 * NCommander feels like an idiot over the debdiff thing >.<
<NCommander> RAOF, ?
<NCommander> ick
<NCommander> I think I found the patch that broke the camels back
<vorian> NCommander: i believe RAOF was reffering to the lack of a "debdiff" factoid in ubottu as the oversight, not what you are working on :)
<emgent> heya nxvl :)
<NCommander> I uploaded the actual diff.gz filees >.<;
<NCommander> So Now I properly uploaded real debdiffs
<vorian> no sweat :)
<NCommander> I feel like an idiot though
<vorian> excellent
<NCommander> Why?
<vorian> whoa! no need to feel that way
<NCommander> WHat, I'm from Debian
<NCommander> I'm assuming the usual pose someone should take when they screw up and the sponsor attacks you :-P
<vorian> haha
<vorian> you won't get attacked here
<NCommander> But I think I found the issue with evolution-sharp
<NCommander> Someone commented out an entire function so mono would work on a liveCD
<NCommander> in one of the patchs
<NCommander> I think this was RAOF's plan, get me to work on evolution-sharp and he can run away in horror :-P
<NCommander> vorian, care to check my now fixed debdiffs ;-)
<vorian> dmucs?
<NCommander> yeah, purelibc, nginx, and libnet-ssleay-perl (which I don't think you can check)
<NCommander> ^as well
<vorian> sure
<NCommander> I got busy ;-)
<NCommander> THanks
<NCommander> It's amazing seeing my patches go somewhere
<NCommander> I'm now interested in beginning the MOTU process
<RAOF> NCommander: I'm back, and I'll pick off whatever vorian doesn't get to.
<NCommander> And I don't have to go get my key signed :-P (drove 500 miles to get it done)
<NCommander> RAOF, I think I found the problem
<vorian> i'm looking at dmucs
<RAOF> I'll pick up ngnix, then.
<NCommander> I'll keep working on evolution-sharp ;-)
<NCommander> ./build-csproj: line 180: gawk: command not found
<NCommander> I think I found a bug in mono's build-deps
<RAOF> That shouldn't be possible, but it's worth checking.  That's from your build log?
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> It didn't scuttle the build though
<RAOF> Ah.  Optional build-dep?
<NCommander> I think the script just didn't take in account that gawk could be missing, and thus didn't return -1 to break make
<NCommander> It doesn't appear in other build logs, just when I build the package with dpkg-buildpackage
 * NCommander waits for news on his package fixes
<NCommander> RAOF, I isolated the patch that breaks mono on evolution-sharp
<RAOF> NCommander: Wooo!
<RAOF> I think I may have found a simpler solution for the ngix FTBFS, too :)
<NCommander> THere are simpler ones
<NCommander> THat's the right one
<NCommander> or a right one ;-)
<RAOF> The right one isn't to #include <limits.h>?
<NCommander> anyway, if dont_check_proc_self_exe.dpatch is removed from mono, evolution-sharp now compiles
<NCommander> RAOF, that didn't work
<NCommander> You have to define an addition preprocessor macro to make that work.
<RAOF> Heh.
<NCommander> you actually need to include stdio
<RAOF> Right.
<NCommander> with said macro
<NCommander> #define need_IOV_MAX or something like that
<NCommander> RAOF, the proc patch is incredibly nasty
<RAOF> Some header defines that, but you're right, __USE_XOPEN needs to be defined before IOV_MAX gets pulled in.
<NCommander> It disables root folder checking in mono
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> And that does a lot of other things
<NCommander> So I think its simpler to properly alias it just to the value the kernel is compiled with
<RAOF> I therefore sign off on your patch :)
<NCommander> THank you
<NCommander> So what should I do about this mono patch
<NCommander> Its required (supposidity) to allow mono to work on a livecd
<NCommander> But it breaks our build, and probably other packages
<RAOF> File a bug against mono, saying that this patch breaks building evolution-sharp on AMD64 in some circumstances.
<NCommander> RAOF, how long were you working on that for?
<RAOF> The evolution-sharp, or the nthingy?
<NCommander> the former
<RAOF> Evolution-sharp, since yesterday pretty much.
<NCommander> Ow
<RAOF> Not _too_ long.
<NCommander> Yeah
<NCommander> But still
<NCommander> It's C#
<NCommander> ow
<NCommander> RAOF, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mono/+bug/247782 - if you wish to add yourself
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247782 in mono "Ubuntu mono patchd ont_check_proc_self_exe causes FBFTS in evolution sharp" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> *sigh*
<NCommander> check for typos BEFORE clicking submit -_-;
<RAOF> It's editable :)
<NCommander> I'l have evolution-sharp fixed once this is taken care of ;-)
<NCommander> So consider that FTBFS resolved ;-)
<RAOF> nginx uploaded.  Thanks for your contribution.
<NCommander> sweet
<NCommander> Which contribution?
<RAOF> nginx.  Also your evolution-sharp contribution, too :)
<NCommander> sweet
<NCommander> My first bug fix actually makes it into Ubuntu ^_^
<NCommander> (I did notify upstream)
<RAOF> Excellent.  Which particular upstream?  Debian, or nginx?
<NCommander> Debian
<RAOF> Excellent.
<RAOF> Even better.
<NCommander> reportbug is awesome
<RAOF> Moderately so, yes.
<NCommander> Just wish I could directly send mail to the debian servers
<NCommander> Oh well
<NCommander> Were there any issues with the patch?
<RAOF> With the nginx patch?  No.
<NCommander> I only got to do a NMU on Debian very rarely because finding a sponsor for a NMU is near impossible
<RAOF> Right.  I think this is where Ubuntu's "shared responsibility" model works better.
 * NCommander is working the debian developer process
 * NCommander is not holding his breath however
<RAOF> Yeah.  I hear that takes years :)
<NCommander> I'm a m68k port
<NCommander> (*porter
<NCommander> (who also does hurd and kfreebsd part time)
<RAOF> Hence building m68k gcc.
<NCommander> Building GCC on m68k takes years
<NCommander> rofl ;-)
<RAOF> Woah.  hurd too?
<NCommander> yeah
<StevenK> Try OpenOffice or Java
<NCommander> It's also why I have a good knack for fixing packages
<NCommander> StevenK, those are fine
<NCommander> distcc is a wonderful thing
<StevenK> Really?
<StevenK> You can't distcc gcc?
<NCommander> I think we build openoffice in 3 days
<NCommander> No
<NCommander> It builds itself
<NCommander> It first builds a mini-gcc
<NCommander> ANd then does the rest of the build with that
<StevenK> Ah
<NCommander> THe worst part is the GCC release team pushes patches about once a week
<NCommander> But it takes ~10 days to build GCC on m68k
<NCommander> You see the problem.
<StevenK> Hah. Yes. Motorola need to release a faster m68k chip. :-)
<warp10> Hi all
<NCommander> StevenK, Coldfire
<NCommander> But its not ABI compatiable with m68k
<RAOF> I count only 2 m68k machines you'd need dedicated to building gcc :)
<NCommander> I run five m68k buildds ...
<NCommander> >.>;
<NCommander> I think I have the equivelent power of an i686 at 700Mhz
<StevenK> NCommander: So it doesn't count. :-)
<RAOF> Dedicate two to gcc, and they can stagger the builds :)
<NCommander> StevenK, Nope
<NCommander> RAOF, We usually loose three, because one handles gcj, another does gfortan, and the other does gcc proper
<NCommander> But when you have 22 buildds
<NCommander> It really isn't so bad
<RAOF> Man, m68k sounds like a barrel of laughs :)
<NCommander> It's faster then hurd
<NCommander> Building glibc on hurd on a dual core processor 2.16Ghz took 24 hours
<RAOF> Hurd boots? :)
<NCommander> Building glibc on m68k (with distcc) I think takes about 18
<NCommander> RAOF, I got it running on real hardware
<StevenK> NCommander: You're a masochist, aren't you? :-P
<NCommander> and a laptop to boot
 * RAOF doesn't really get the point of hurd.
<NCommander> Now THAT'S fun.
<NCommander> StevenK, no. I don't run an RPM based distro ;-)
<StevenK> Haha
<vorian> NCommander: any interest in finding some manpages for dmucs?
<vorian> :)
 * NCommander disappears faster then hurd can panic
<vorian> it only needs 5
<NCommander> *grumbles*
<NCommander> Isn't it susposed to have the manpages coming from Debian?
<StevenK> NCommander: Hurd panics?
<NCommander> StevenK, I got it to corrupt its own file system by just idling
<StevenK> Whee!
<NCommander> It's actually not that bad
<NCommander> If you use the right hardware, its pretty stable
<NCommander> I've never managed to unintentionally bring mach down
 * RAOF tries to reconcile  "not that bad" with "corrupt its own filesystem by idling"
<ion_> raof: :-)
<NCommander> vorian, *sigh*, got a link to a guide to writing your own manpages
<NCommander> RAOF, uh .... I ran linux in the 1.x days?
<NCommander> and freebsd 2.x?
<NCommander> for an 0.3, its not bad
<ion_> ncommander: I tend to use asciidoc to write manpages.
<RAOF> I've used docbook2man before, that works too.
<NCommander> I only wanted to fix the FTBFS, not write documentation >.<;
<NCommander> *grumble grumble*
 * NCommander looks up how to use the damn thing
<ion_> Source: http://gitweb.heh.fi/?p=ion/apt-mark-sync.git;f=man/apt-mark-sync.1.txt;hb=HEAD, result: http://gitweb.heh.fi/?p=ion/apt-mark-sync.git;f=man/apt-mark-sync.1;hb=HEAD
<ion_> Also, http://gitweb.heh.fi/?p=ion/apt-mark-sync.git;f=man/Makefile;hb=HEAD might be handy.
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> Can't get the name section to show up right
<vorian> NCommander: found one
<NCommander> For what?
<vorian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/PODManpage
<vorian> easy(er) manpage writing
<NCommander> THanks
<NCommander> I was trying to do it with nroff
<vorian> (for the future of course)
<NCommander> Your not going to make me write dmucs's manpages?
<vorian> no
<NCommander> bah, I already put a good dent in it -_-;
<NCommander> I was trying to make the formatting look right
<NCommander> pod2man looks kinda weird
<NCommander> RAOF, if your still alive, would you like to look at my purelibc patch?
<vorian> keep up the good work NCommander
 * vorian sleeps
<NCommander> THanks
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone REVU this swt-gtk upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=swt-gtk
<RainCT> msg sebner uhm.. why was there a boson rebuild?
 * Laney throws a / at RainCT 
<RainCT> Laney: :)
<DktrKranz> RainCT, be careful when sending love messages with /msg, initial / is very important to keep privacy ;)
<sebner> DktrKranz: second package is now also in the new queue \o/
<DktrKranz> sebner, Y. R. B.
<sebner> DktrKranz: HRHR
<devfil> lol
<vorian> sebner: nice work with almanah :)
<sebner> vorian: thanks for uploading :)
<vorian> :)
<DktrKranz> vorian, brand new MOTU and already pushed crack from sebner? bad guy :)
<sebner> DktrKranz: think about the new possibilities. he could also become a SOTS
<vorian> :o
<DktrKranz> vorian, RUN!
 * vorian sprints away
<sebner> DktrKranz: Y. R. B :P
<emgent> good morning
<sebner> emgent: \o/
<NCommander> morning world
<geser> Hi NCommander
<NCommander> hola geser :-)
<NCommander> Is there a nice list of FBFTS? (looking at the qa page I was linked to, its not updated it real-time ;.;)
<stgraber> ubuntuwire has that IIRC (or is that what you are referring as not up to date) ?
<NCommander> Yeah
<geser> it's updated once daily
<NCommander> Ah
<nhandler> NCommander, Try harvest: http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/sourcepackages.html
<stgraber> Last update: 2008-07-12 02:03:41 +0000 (updated daily at 02:00 UTC)
<nhandler> It has a ftbfs column
<geser> but you can grab the source for it and run it yourself (takes around 5 min to run)
<NCommander> neat
 * NCommander should see if I can get buildd.net's scripts to run against Ubuntu
<NCommander> That page was/is my best from for dealing with autobuilders on Debain
<wgrant> I can always run it more frequently if required.
<NCommander> Hola wgrant :-)
<NCommander> wgrant, I was told to talk to you if I wanted to help with HPPA FTBFS
<nhandler> NCommander, the list on harvest was last updated about 5 hours ago
<wgrant> NCommander: Really? I don't find that likely.
<NCommander> I think it was you, but my morning coffee still hasn't reached /dev/head, so maybe not
<geser> doesn't lamont care about HPPA?
<wgrant> geser: He was my first thought, yes.
<ScottK-palm> nixternal: Did you see gnomefreak's comment about making sure the .so is removed (re libflashsupport)?
<ScottK-palm> geser: lamont's the guy for hppa.
<gnomefreak> Nicke_: libflashsupport causes most of the crashes out side of profile corruption, extensions, addons. if its flash crash removing libflashsupport.so fixes 80% (just an example i didnt measure it) of flash crashes
<gnomefreak> ack
<gnomefreak> Nicke_: not you that was fro nixternal
<ScottK-palm> gnomefreak: Please try and catch up with crimsun or maybe TheMuso and get some expert advice.
<gnomefreak> ScottK-palm: i will most likely monday
<ScottK-palm> It may be we need to abandon the backport until the release gets more mature.
<ScottK-palm> See you later.
<gnomefreak> ScottK-palm: before that i would rather pull libflashsupport to see if it clears problems up to where its a usable plugin
<NCommander> Does the 3-clause BSD license meet Debian FSG/Ubuntu's standard?
<hefe_bia> Hi all! I am about to upload a new version of my REVU packages. Should I use standards version 3.8.0.1 or 3.8.0 ?
<sebner> hefe_bia: it's fine when you use 3.8.0
<hefe_bia> sebner: thanks
<NCommander> sebner, does this copyrtight file look right? (I noticed it didn't include the right license)
<NCommander> er http://paste.ubuntu.com/26892/
<sebner> NCommander: sry, haven't used BSD license so far
<NCommander> That's alright
<NCommander> Second question, do you know how to get rid of the "Compatibility levels before 4 are deprecated." warnings?
<nhandler> NCommander, update the compat file
<NCommander> nhandler, What's the current compat level?
<nhandler> NCommander, I don't know. I would search the Debian Policy to find out.
<slytherin> NCommander: at least 5. Check the version of debhelper mentioned in control file
<NCommander> slytherin, there isn't a versioned requirement on debhelper
<slytherin> NCommander: then 5 should be ok unless you are using anything specific to debhelper 6
<NCommander> it builds with compat == 1 :-)
<bdrung> vorian: ping
<vorian> bdrung: hi
<bdrung> vorian: bug #247725: "The only change made by Ubuntu was a rebuild. So we can safely sync."
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247725 in gxmms2 "Please sync gxmms2 0.7.0-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247725
<bdrung> vorian: http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/g/gxmms2/gxmms2_0.7.0-1build1/changelog
<vorian> ah, excellent
<hefe_bia> REVU commenting seems broken ... :(
 * NCommander finally clears all the lintian warnings on this package
<wgrant> hefe_bia: Do you get an error?
<hefe_bia> wgrant: yes. A python traceback. http://paste.ubuntu.com/26899/
<wgrant> hefe_bia: Can you please try again?
<wgrant> I touched some of the code earlier, but it seems it was the deployment that went wrong.
<hefe_bia> wgrant: still same error
<NCommander> Another day, another FTBFS patch filed :-)
<hefe_bia> just strange that it seems to be able to access the database for the other stuff... But /me doesn't know about revu code ;)
<sebner> NCommander: great =)
<NCommander> sebner, care to review ;-)
<wgrant> hefe_bia: Indeed, it is very very strange.
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transproxy/+bug/247886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247886 in transproxy "FTBFS fix on AMD64/SPARC/IA-64" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> Is REVU powered by a dak installation, or is it something custom built?
<wgrant> NCommander: It is custom built.
<sebner> NCommander: I'm no motu (yet) ;)
<NCommander> Darn, if it was dak, I have some experience with that beast ;-)
<NCommander> morning emgent, Tonio_
<NCommander> laptop is telling me to reboot
<NCommander> brb
<slytherin> NCommander: Add your email address and descriptions to the patches. Note down the patches added in changelog.
<NCommander> So I take it no sponsors in here today?
<slytherin> NCommander: ï»¿Add your email address and descriptions to the patches. Note down the patches added in changelog. And was there any need to change prefix in rules file?
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone REVU swt-gtk , I just done a new upload today: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=swt-gtk
<NCommander> slytherin, I'm in the changelog, I don't understand wha you mean by descriptions
<slytherin> NCommander: edit the patch you added and add description at the starting. Also note down which patch is new and why it was added in debian/changelog
<NCommander> The Resolved FTBFS line isn't clear enough?
<slytherin> NCommander: ok that is fine, but add patch name there
<NCommander> I did add a description to the patch
<slytherin> AnAnt: I am not a developer but I will try to find some time to basic review.
 * NCommander adds his name too
<AnAnt> ok
<NCommander> slytherin, package building now in pbuilder
<slytherin> AnAnt: about the other package you were trying to fix, don't remember name (something starting with am), you will need to use Sun JDK for compilation.
<AnAnt> slytherin: monajat ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: yes
<AnAnt> slytherin: you mean, it can't be built using gcj ?
<slytherin> ï»¿NCommander: And why did you change PREFIX in debian/rules?
<AnAnt> slytherin: is it because the awt lib ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: That looks to be case from build log.
<AnAnt> slytherin: I asked the upstream to try to find out the reason
<NCommander> slytherin, so dh_installdirs could be used. Once the compat was set to five, it broke using tmp
<AnAnt> slytherin: I dunno why he's using awt although he's using swt
<slytherin> NCommander: Ok.
<AnAnt> slytherin: but there is an awt package for gcj
<slytherin> NCommander: now once you update debdiff, suscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors
<NCommander> If there is a better way to do it that takes advantage of dh_installdirs, I'd love to hear it
<AnAnt> libgcj8-1-awt
<slytherin> Can you point me to latest build log?
<NCommander> slytherin, thank you for your help ;-)
<AnAnt> slytherin: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15965071/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.monajat_1.0-0ubuntu1~ppa11_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<slytherin> AnAnt: sun.awt.VerticalBagLayout looks to be Sun specific API
<wgrant> hefe_bia: It's fixed now.
<AnAnt> I see
<slytherin> AnAnt: Also java.awt.SystemTray is only available in java 6. You can try compiling the package with openjdk. But I still think sun.awt will give you trouble.
<AnAnt> slytherin: it does build with openjdk
<AnAnt> slytherin: I was trying to make it work with gcj
<AnAnt> slytherin: to put it in Debian too
<slytherin> AnAnt: Have you tried building it with openjdk using pbuilder chroot?
<AnAnt> slytherin: yes, I build using pbuilder
<slytherin> AnAnt: openjdk will land in Debian soon, hopefully
<AnAnt> slytherin: I heard there is a problem in openjdk & sun's jdk, that they don't work on all archs, yet gcj does
<AnAnt> something like that
<NCommander> slytherin, I look forward to that day; no more nightmare with Java packages on Debian! ;-)
<AnAnt> people here (& on debian mentors too IIRC) encouraged me to try make apps build using gcj
<slytherin> AnAnt: right, as of now openjdk is known to work only on i386 and amd64. a PowerPC port is available but no idea how well it works
<slytherin> AnAnt: Try contacting upstream and ask them not to use sun specific apis and to make systray functionality optional.
<AnAnt> slytherin: doesn't gcj support java 6 ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: no
<AnAnt> I see
<AnAnt> well, it is made to be a systray applet
<AnAnt> so cannot make that optional I think
<NCommander> slytherin, I thought openjdk worked on sparc, I mean, Sun does use the sparc architecture a lot ;-)
<slytherin> NCommander: I think they want to have their own JDK on sparc.
<NCommander> I was under the impression OpenJDK -> JDK 7 when it was finished
<NCommander> slytherin, are you a MOTU or a core-dev?
<warp10> Hi all!
<slytherin> NCommander: none. :-)
<NCommander> slytherin, DD?
<NCommander> (you have uncanny knowledge of how to make a patch shine ;-))
<slytherin> NCommander: Nope.
<NCommander> Ok then, I give. I have no idea what you are ;-)
<slytherin> NCommander: when you encounter many packages with no patches containing no description at all or changelog without reason why a patch was added, you learn to take care of it yourself. :-)
<NCommander> Sounds about right ;-)
<slytherin> NCommander: I am just a java programmer by day and ubuntu enthusiast all the time. Planning to become MOTU in an year or so. :-)
<NCommander> slytherin, maybe you can answer me this then, at what point should I consider applying for Contributing developer. I understand you probably should ask for MOTU when people start telling you are ready
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> d'oh
<hefe_bia> wgrant: thanks, it works now.
<hefe_bia> No MOTUs here today?
<cody-somerville> I'm here
<hefe_bia> :) Just seemed so because of NCommanders patch discussion
<hefe_bia> cody-somerville: Care to have a look at tomboy-blogposter or gebabbel on REVU? I think I have incorporated the suggestions from yesterdays discussion.
<alex-weej> there's a mixture of 0.23.3 and 0.23.1 versions of empathy stuff in the archives. i suspect it's what's giving me trouble installing it.
<slytherin> alex-weej: which repositories? hardy?
<alex-weej> Intrepid
<alex-weej> in synaptic, when a version is labelled as (Now), that means it's currently installed right?
<slytherin> alex-weej: yes
<alex-weej> for the "empathy" package, i have 2 candidates, one of them is 0.23.3 (now) from the telepathy PPA from Hardy and the other is 0.23.1 (Intrepid)
<alex-weej> BUT
<alex-weej> the package isn't installed!
<alex-weej> and i don't even have the PPA active anymore
<alex-weej> but there is still, e.g. libempathy-gtk-common at 0.23.3 in the archives
 * slytherin has to rush for dinner
<AnAnt> Hello, is the "Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 " license considered free ?
<slytherin> AnAnt: I think so. AFAIK, only CC-BY-SA license is considered Free.
<AnAnt> that's noncommercial
<AnAnt> the reason I ask is because it says:
<AnAnt>      * Noncommercial. You may not use this work for commercial purposes.
<hefe_bia> user switching killed my X session !?
<LucidFox> emgent, a bit late, but congratulations on your MOTUship!
<emgent> thanks LucidFox :)
<c_korn> hello. I want to add a file to a package which is not automatically moved to debian/tmp/usr/bin. what do I have to change to make include this file into the package?
<kpirc> I have uploaded first attempts for packages for 'modglue' and 'cadabra' (a symbolic computer algebra system) to REVU. How do I get this reviewed?
<udienz-> !ping #ubuntu-motu admin
<ubottu> udienz-: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<udienz-> oh...
<slytherin> udienz-: what are you trying to do?
<slytherin> kpirc: just wait. Someone will review it at some point of tme
<udienz-> slytherin: i can't login into revu.ubuntuwire.com, i try to recover my password but i got messages "There is no REVU account for udienz@ubuntu.com, yet."
<slytherin> udienz-: Are you using same email address as you used when creating package?
<kpirc> slytherin: ok, thanks.
<udienz-> slytherin: yes
<slytherin> udienz-: I am not developer so can;'t help you musch
<udienz-> slytherin: nope, maybe i must waiting for a while?
<sebner> warp10: around?
<warp10> sebner: here, for a few minutes more
<sebner> warp10: I saw you filed a bug for asunder in debian(wnpp) are you packaging it? if not I'd do it (I started some minutes ago with it)
<sebner> hi RainCT
<warp10> sebner: I am packaging it indeed, and I have almost finished it (just waiting for an answer from the upstream developers)
<sebner> warp10: ok, np
<warp10> sebner: fortunately, there soooo many needs-pacaking tagged bug in LP :)
<sebner> warp10: /me can't find them xD
<warp10> sebner: really? I see 974 of them :)
<warp10> sebner: BTW, whatever DktrKranz I saying to you about me: please, don't believe him! :P
<sebner> warp10: maybe you have magic powers or you can use the launchpad search right xD
<warp10> sebner: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=needs-packaging
<sebner> warp10: lol, thanks for the link!
<warp10> sebner: my pleasure!
 * sebner hugs warp10 
 * warp10 hugs back sebner
<DktrKranz> warp10, I'm not saying anything, I'm just writing
<warp10> DktrKranz: mmm... fair enough :)
<goshawk> hi, where can i find the list of package section of ubuntu?
<goshawk> sections
<RainCT> goshawk: file:///usr/share/doc/debian-policy/policy.html/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<goshawk> ah... it's the same of debian one
<goshawk> ok
<slytherin> goshawk: what did you expect?
<goshawk> maybe another one... i thought it was the same, but now i have references :)
 * hefe_bia got alpha2 running on vmware :D
 * slytherin hates arch:all packages form Debain contrib. :-(
<slytherin> s/Debain/Debian
<foolano> hi
<slytherin> foolano: hi
<foolano> what should i do if wanted to have a stable and unstable ppa? create two separated teams?
<cody-somerville> foolano, that or two packages
<foolano> cody-somerville: thx
<slytherin> foolano: you can simply have two different package names.
<foolano> but i want user to automatically upgrade from the stable branch
<foolano> isnt it clearer to have separated ppas?
<slytherin> foolano: sure, have two teams or two persons with PPA
<foolano> ok thx a lot
<nijaba> Hello, I would need some guidance on how to fix the debian/copyright of http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=limesurvey
<ScottK> foolano: Are you using the installed package installed config files for Postfix with ebox or do you use your own?
<hefe_bia> nijaba: Let me have a quick look...
<nijaba> hefe_bia: thanks :)
<foolano> ScottK: our own. For now I just made some changes from the debian sarge version to make it work with hardy and release a package which can be tested for our users. I still have to check the conf you use for intrepid to base our conf on that.
<ScottK> foolano: I'm working with lamont to add some helper scripts to the Postfix package to make external management easier.
<foolano> and I still have to nag you with some questions releated to that. I should start working on that in a week
<ScottK> I'm about to go out now, but we should takl about what you'd need.
<ScottK> Sure.
<foolano> ScottK: cool
<ScottK> main.cf can be manipulated via postconf pretty well.
<ScottK> It's adding stuff to master.cf that's missing.
<hefe_bia> nijaba: I'm not sure whether it is reasonable to include the License Preamble for every of the included or derived from packages, but you'll have to at least give a pointer to the licenses in /usr/share/doc for the other licenses (GPL, LGPL, Apache...)
<foolano> ScottK: I'll show you what changes we make to those files
<nijaba> hefe_bia: ah, ok, I see what is needed now.  Thanks a lot.
<ScottK> foolano: Would you email me?
<foolano> ScottK: yeah, if that's fine for you
<ScottK> Yes.
<ScottK> I'll be back later, but have to go schlep teenagers across town.
<hefe_bia> nijaba: glad to help
<foolano> ScottK: ok, thanks
<hefe_bia> reading emmet's comment on nijaba's packages... Are there template files for README.source for the common patch systems?
<nijaba> hefe_bia: I made one up for quilt, I could add it to a page if that could be usefull.  my seach on *.ubuntu.com or *.debian.org did not turn anything
<hefe_bia> nijaba: That would be cool as I use quilt, too and just realized my packages aren't 3.8.0 ready, too ;)
<nijaba> hefe_bia: what do you think of emmet's comment #7?  I think he understood the simlinks the wrong way aroung.  the link is from /usr/... to /etc, not the other way around
<nijaba> so the orig file is the one in etc and is installed as conf file
<hefe_bia> nijaba: Is he referring to the postinst script? I see links made with ln -s file /etc/.../file
<nijaba> hefe_bia: aha, maybe, let me check that.  thanks again
 * hefe_bia has to go now. Guests are here ...
<nijaba> just created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/README.source if anyone cares
<slytherin> nijaba: Please move it to other namespace if possible and include the url from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete.
<nijaba> slytherin: what namespace would you suggest?
<slytherin> nijaba: same as other urls like control, copyright are using. I think it is Howto/topic.
<slytherin> nijaba: Edit the complete guide page and you will know.
<nijaba> slytherin: ok, changed to README.sourceHowTo and update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Lists/PatchingTips to point to it. Is this proper?
<slytherin> nijaba: let me check
<slytherin> nijaba: fine. I still think you should also include it from 'Complete' page
<nijaba> slytherin: but the complete page is a collection of includes, if I am not mistaking
<slytherin> nijaba: yes, so simply add your page to the list at appropriate place
<Drk_Guy> Can someone help out?
<Drk_Guy> I'm having a weird error with dpkg-source
<Drk_Guy> dpkg-source: aviso: el directorio fuente './wine-1.1.1~winehq0~ubuntu~8.04~3DMark-1~ppa-1' no es <sourcepackage>-<upstreamversion> 'wine-1.1.1~winehq0~ubuntu~8.04-1~3DMark-1~ppa'
<Drk_Guy> Guys...
<Drk_Guy> This is a lil bit uncool, can anyone help?
<cody-somerville> Well, I can't read spanish or I'd try to help you ;]
<Drk_Guy> cody-somerville, I can help out in that
<Drk_Guy> It is telling that "source dir is not <sourcepackage>-upstreamversion>
<cody-somerville> DreamThief, The directory name needs to match <sourcepackage>-<upstreamversion>
<cody-somerville> Anyhow, sorry but I gotta jet :)
<Drk_Guy> Ok
<Drk_Guy> But it is "wine-1.1.1~winehq0~ubuntu~8.04~3DMark-1~ppa-1" isn't it accordingly named=?
<cody-somerville> Check the changelog and see :)
<Drk_Guy> changelog's name is the same
<Drk_Guy> I just added that 3DMark because i'm patching it
<cody-somerville> the upstream version, not package version
<cody-somerville> what is the name of the source tarball?
<Drk_Guy> cody-somerville, wine_1.1.1~winehq0~ubuntu~8.04.orig.tar.gz
<Drk_Guy> I used YokoZar's one
<Drk_Guy> Official winehq's ubuntu mantainer
<YokoZar> Drk_Guy: The directory needs to be the package version WITHOUT the last -foo at the end (usually -1 or -0ubuntu1 or similar)
<YokoZar> so blah-blah-foo-2-2-1ubuntu1 would be in directory blah-blah-foo-2-2
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Gonna try removing the -1 out of ppa-1
<Drk_Guy> Thanks YokoZar, i'm gonna be a sub-mantainer of wine
<Drk_Guy> XD
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, Still, it's the same
<Drk_Guy> YokoZar, you there?
<sebner> nhandler: congratulations :)
<nhandler> Thank you sebner
#ubuntu-motu 2008-07-13
<wgrant> Blargh. Why is kde-icons-oxygen (some 48MB) suffering from KDE-stick-everything-in-one-huge-sourcepackage-itis? It was bad enough as it was without the new stuff being thrown in too!
<RAOF> I am the king of FTBFS!
<RAOF> Everything I've recently touched has failed on at least one architecture.
<NCommander> Hola all
<RAOF> NCommander: Why hello there :)
<RAOF> Did you know ngnix FTBFS on sparc now? :)
 * NCommander is stiff and sore, and still doing FTBFS
<NCommander> RAOF, Yup, I saw that -_-;
<NCommander> RAOF, its a different file then any of the ones I patched
<RAOF> Yeah, I know.
<NCommander> I'd debug it if I had access to a SPARCstation, but it looks like its a general toolchain error ...
<RAOF> It's dying in the assembler, it seems
<RAOF> Right.
<NCommander> RAOF, Got a sparc I can SSH into?
<RAOF> Not personally.  Ubuntuwire might, though...
<NCommander> I don't have access to a sparc debian porting machine or I'd simply create a chroot jail
<ScottK-laptop> NCommander: siretart or sistpoty do.
<ScottK-laptop> REVU runs on a sparc.
<NCommander> RAOF, probably what happened is this package is was built for sparc ages ago, and now with intrepids toolchain FTFBS
<NCommander> *FTBFS
<anteaya> I don't know if this is the correct place to ask but I do believe that my computer has been spammed.  I have photographs of men with guns and various middle east images that are being found and displayed by a screensaver program.  This is very upsetting for me.
<anteaya> How do I find the location of the images and get rid of them?  And how do I find out you they got on my computer?
<NCommander> RAOF, BTW, a question, at what point should I apply for contributing developer? (I know I should apply for MOTU when people tell me to do but I'm not so clean on contrib-dev)
<RAOF> NCommander: I don't really know.  I don't really know what the point of the contrib-dev team is; you don't (currently) get any extra priviledges or responsibilities from it.
<NCommander> The week says you can do debian sync/merges ...
<ScottK-laptop> RAOF: You get the privildges of being an Ubuntu member, slight as those are without having to wait in some other long line for it.
<RAOF> ScottK-laptop: True; you do get an @ubuntu.com address, I suppose.
 * NCommander looks at the DD process
<NCommander> Yup
<NCommander> RAOF, care to review YAFTBFS fix ;-)
<RAOF> I'll just get some more coffee, then OK.
<anteaya> and if I have posted to the incorrect channel, then i am open to suggestions about the best channel to address this
<anteaya> thanks
<NCommander> You need a HTCTP-enabled coffee pot
<RAOF> anteaya: #ubuntu is the right channel for support requests.
<RAOF> NCommander: NTCTP?
<NCommander> RAOF, Hypyertext Transfer Coffee Protocol
<NCommander> Hold on
<NCommander> HTCPCP (HyperText Coffe Pot Control Protocol)
<NCommander> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2324.txt
<RAOF> Eh.  That protocol doesn't map cleanly to my plunger.
<RAOF> Well, kettle/grinder/plunger combination.
<anteaya> RAOF: thanks i haven't found anyone that seems to care that I have images of people with guns on my computer
<NCommander> I want a coffee maker that runs NetBSD and implemented HTCPCP :-)
<anteaya> that appear to have come with the install
<anteaya> or through an approved package
<anteaya> but thanks
<ScottK-laptop> anteaya: Why do you think they came through an approved package?
<ScottK-laptop> anteaya: #ubuntu for support, btw.
<anteaya> ScottK-laptop: the install is about a week old
<anteaya> clean drive
<anteaya> hardy only
<anteaya> i haven't had time to compile anything
<anteaya> packages only
<ScottK-laptop> No third party repositories?
<anteaya> looking
<anteaya> now i did install cinelerra
 * NCommander checks the glibc version on intrepid
<anteaya> and that may have been third party
<NCommander> RAOF, seems like a good number of FTBFS are caused by glibc 2.8
<RAOF> Yay!
<RAOF> Toolchain fun!
<anteaya> sorry and medibuntu
<ScottK-laptop> anteaya: No cinelerra in the official repositories.
<anteaya> okay
<anteaya> and medibuntu?
<ScottK-laptop> anteaya: Not official.
<anteaya> okay
<ScottK-laptop> Dunno.
<anteaya> okay thanks
<anteaya> i will look there
<anteaya> very upsetting
<NCommander> RAOF, I isolated that it causes wide-dhcpv6 to obiterate itself
<ScottK-laptop> anteaya: You need to be more careful about what you install and where you get it from.  That's my advice.
<NCommander> I don't need to monkey around with the toolchain tonight, I"m already too tired -_-;
<anteaya> ScottK-laptop: I appreciate that
<NCommander> wow, newlib is NOT happy on amd64
<NCommander> RAOF,  (<< 2.8~) - That means a version less than 2.8, right?
<RAOF> Yes.
<NCommander> *grumbles* THis package requires glibc greater then 2.7 but less then 2.8
<RAOF> Presumably >= 2.7, right?
<RAOF> Anyway, FTBFS sponsoring?
<NCommander> ah yes
<NCommander> RAOF, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transproxy/+bug/247886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247886 in transproxy "FTBFS fix on AMD64/SPARC/IA-64" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> Just one that I did this morning before starting my day
<RAOF> Nice work.  Lintian+copyright+FTBFS :)
<NCommander> Not completely sure I did the copyright right
<NCommander> First time I ever did it with a BSD three-clause package
<NCommander> I just cat LICENSE >> debian/copyright
<ScottK-laptop> IIRC BSD is in /usr/share/common-licenses so you should refer to it and not repeat it.
<NCommander> ScottK, I didn't see the three-clause one there
<NCommander> Just the old four clause
 * ScottK-laptop looks
<NCommander> Then again, I did this at 8 in the mroning
<NCommander> I may have missed it
<ScottK-laptop> The one on my Hardy system is 3 clause.
<RAOF>  /usr/share/common-licenses/BSD appears to be the 3 clause to me.
 * ScottK-laptop high fives RAOF.
<NCommander> ScottK, In addition, he modified the BSD license to explicately list his companies name
<NCommander> (in the endorse/promote product derived section)
<ScottK-laptop> In that case it's not BSD license anymore.
<ScottK-laptop> Which is why BSD license sucks.
<ScottK-laptop> MIT works much better.
<NCommander> meh
<NCommander> I haven't dealt with licenses since I was an Savannah FSF admin
<NCommander> ANd I probably should have known better then to touch copyright at 8AM in the morning ;-)
<ScottK-laptop> In this day and age it's essential we get it right.
<ScottK-laptop> Even though it's painful.
<NCommander> Yeah, I realize, it looked like BSD three-clause and it met DFSG from my IANAL perspective
<NCommander> The old copyright file said it used GPL, not hat it currently uses
<ScottK-laptop> Slight difference there.
<NCommander> Yeah, just a bit ;-)
<NCommander> WHoever packaged it was damn lazy
<NCommander> no compat file, warnings from debhelper tools, and lintian was angry
<NCommander> Two errors and a ****load of warnings
<NCommander> it was nice to brush the rust off my packaging karma by fixing lintian warnings
<ScottK-laptop> ;-)
<RAOF> I think that your debdiff was created from an unclean source; it includes substvars and debhelper.log, etc.
<NCommander> damn it
<NCommander> Sorry
<NCommander> I'm still getting used to using debdiff
<RAOF> That's fine.
<NCommander> Ugh, the apt-rpm documentation is bugged real nice
<NCommander> <!doctype refentry PUBLIC "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook V3.1//EN" [
<NCommander> I think I see the error with the doctype ;-)
 * ScottK2 declares his man page sufficient and moves on.
<NCommander> ScottK2, are you a core developer?
<ScottK2> Yes.
 * ScottK2 cringes.
<NCommander> ScottK2, would you like to review my patch for the libnet-ssleay-perl package?
<ScottK2> Sure.  What bug?
<ScottK2> I think it's even my fault that's in Main.
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnet-ssleay-perl/+bug/247698
<NCommander> It's a FTBFS
<ubottu> NCommander: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/247698/+text)
<NCommander> o_o;
<ScottK2> It turns out I didn't get that one promoted, but I'll look at it.
<NCommander> promoted?
<RAOF> To main, from Universe.
<NCommander> Its in main ...
<ScottK2> Oh dear lord.  That's the first time I've used edge since the changed it.
<RAOF> But once, it was in universe.
<ScottK2> Did I ever mention I think Launchpad U/I is getting worse?
<ScottK2> It is.
<NCommander> I personally like the updated look
<RAOF> I think I like the big tabs up the top.
<NCommander> It just feels laggy
<NCommander> But edge was always like that for me
<ScottK2> Launchpad is always laggy.
 * NCommander just found the oTBFS
<RAOF> Yay for round-trips to .uk
<NCommander> Someone forgot to add lzma to the build-deps
<NCommander> Or that's just the start ...
<ScottK2> NCommander: Is this the one that builds in Debian because they don't run the test suite?
<cody-somerville> ScottK2, I'm of a similar opinion
<ScottK2> RAOF: You've got amd64, right?
<RAOF> Yup.
<ScottK2> RAOF: Would you be willing to do a test build on libnet-ssleay-perl?
<NCommander> ScottK2, yeah
<RAOF> ScottK2: Certainly.
<ScottK2> Thanks.
<NCommander> I'm currently playing email tag with four people on the Debian perl group
<RAOF> ScottK2: You have a trustworthy face; want ssh access instead?
<ScottK2> NCommander: Did you report a bug?
<NCommander> Who are trying to reproduce, and can't
<ScottK2> RAOF: No.
<RAOF> Ok.
<NCommander> ScottK2, Yeah. I'm going to see if I can reproduce on my debian sid box when I get home
<ScottK2> RAOF: It's much more convenient for me to not have access to any 64bit boxen and just ask for help if I need it.
<NCommander> newlib's rules are weird
<RAOF> Heh.  Lazy ScottK2 :)
<ScottK2> Overcommitted.
<RAOF> Right.
<NCommander> Overcommited?
<ScottK2> To much to do.
 * ScottK2 is currently trying to arrange to resovle Bug #247332
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247332 in postfix "Please add a script to allow filter services to be programatically added to master.cf" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247332
<ScottK2> With that, I think I can get apt-get install some-meta-package and have spam and a/v filtering all integrated with Postfix.
<NCommander> Well, newlib is FTBFS because its unpack stamp isn't being called ...
<NCommander> and it appears it internally chooses not to build on anything but powerpc ...
<ScottK2> NCommander: Am I reading your debdiff wrong or do you have both a patch and the same changes inline in the code?
<ScottK2> NCommander: Personally, I prefer debian/changelog to be a little more verbose so that when the next person comes along to do a merge on the package they can understand both why and what was done.
<ScottK2> It's one consequence of team maintaining.  We really need to document changes well.
<NCommander> ScottK, Let me upload a fixed version
<ScottK2> Thanks.  Ping me when it's uploaded.
<NCommander> Ok, I fixed it, but I just want to check to make sure this works 100% proprely on i386
<NCommander> ScottK2, +  * Fixed FTBFS on 64-bit architectures by changing printf %d to %ld
<NCommander> +    so a long pointer can be printed out.
<NCommander> How's that for an explained changelog?
<ScottK2> Great.
<NCommander> This was the first FTBFS I ever did for ubuntu
<NCommander> It's nice to know I totally screwed it up ;-)
<ScottK2> NCommander: No.  You figured out the problem and how to fix it.  That's not screwing up.
<NCommander> and yeah, I forgot to run debian/rules clean before running debdiff the first time around
<NCommander> ScottK2, obviously debian and ubuntu use different source packages for screwup ;-)
 * NCommander runs from the bad pun
<NCommander> Uploading now
<NCommander> er wait
 * ScottK2 borrows Hobbsee's LongPointyStick and attaches the pun to NCommander even at a great distance.
 * NCommander runs lintian
<NCommander> man-page-has-errors-from-man
<NCommander> If the fix is trival, I'll fix that too
<ScottK2> Great.
<ScottK2> More Debian bugs to file ...
<NCommander> I'll take care of that ;-)
<ScottK2> I'm big on making sure relevant Ubuntu changes get pushed back to Debian.
<ScottK2> If we don't work at it, entropy will turn Ubuntu into a fork in time and that would be bad for both distros.
 * cody-somerville has started to do the same.
<ScottK2> Excellent.
<NCommander> yeah, I'm fixing lintian bugs as I find them with FTBFS :-)
<NCommander> weird error
<NCommander> I'll take one final stab fixing it ...
<NCommander> ScottK2, it appears to be a bug in pod2man >.<;
<NCommander> I'm not willing to loose half of my life chasing down that evil bug (IANA perl hacker)
<ScottK2> OK.  Let's get the FTBFS and move on, but please at least file the bug against pod2man.
<ScottK2> 1189 open bugs against Launchapd, but they have time to redesign the bug page using a random number generator.
<NCommander> Patch filed
<NCommander> I'm rerunning the final debdiff against pbuilder (the old one built ok, but I'm just rechecking for $SANITY sake)
 * ScottK2 looks
<ScottK2> But, of course, Launchpad is slow.
<NCommander> ScottK2, I also checked it on i386, the change to printf doesn't effect it there at all
<ScottK2> OK.
<ScottK2> RAOF: Did you get a chance to build it?
<RAOF> ScottK2: Oh, I was waiting for someone to give me a url.  You want the archive version, or what?
<NCommander> RAOF, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libnet-ssleay-perl/+bug/247698
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247698 in libnet-ssleay-perl "FTBFS on AMD64/IA-64 due to printf error" [Undecided,In progress]
<NCommander> If you want, I'll upload the source package somewhere for you
<RAOF> That'd be nice.  Is it easy for you?
<ScottK2> That or just use patch on the curren Intrepid package.
<NCommander> the only machine I could upload and get something APT would understand isn't running, unless I post to REVU, but it isn't meant for this
<RAOF> Yeah, that'll be faster.
<RAOF> (Me applying the debdiff)
<RAOF> I was just being lazy.
<NCommander> Man, a non-lazy
<NCommander> wow
<NCommander> Whoops
<NCommander> Be careful what you type before you push enter ;-)
 * RAOF updates his intrepid sbuild first.
<NCommander> so while we wait
<NCommander> Any requests for me to look at FTBFS, or merges, etc?
<ScottK2> Lovely.  Need to go into my Intrepid chroot just to make the source package thanks to debhelper 7.
<NCommander> sorry to make you work
<ScottK2> No problem.  I appreciate your contributing.
<NCommander> I'm working on the f-spot FTBFS
<ScottK2> You didn't make it debhelper 7.
<NCommander> I didn't what?
<ScottK2> You aren't the one that made it into a debhelper 7 package (that's the one that's giving me extra work right now).
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> I thought I forgot to add a build-dep
 * NCommander appears to have a fix for f-spot
<NCommander> Just needed to twiddle the build-deps
<ScottK2> That's one I'm not going to feel comfortable with sponsoring.
<NCommander> I just had to add libjpeg62-dev
<RAOF> NCommander: That doesn't segfault in mcs on AMD64, does it? :)
<NCommander> f-spot never segfautled on amd64
<NCommander> It failed a configure test ...
<NCommander> er ... wait
<NCommander> ...
<NCommander> Damn it
<NCommander> I built it with the patch that broke evolution-sharp removed
<ScottK2> NCommander: You also neglected to put the bug closing magic in your debian/changelog (I added it).
<NCommander> ScottK, I opened the bug after I made the debdiff ;-)
<ScottK2> Just as Debian uses (Closes: #nnnnnn), Ubuntu uses (LP: #nnnnnn).
<ScottK2> NCommander: Not after you made the last debdiff.
<NCommander> ScottK2, no, I know that.
<NCommander> Whoops >.<;
<ScottK2> OK.  Just making sure.
<ScottK2> NCommander: When you did your i386 test build, how did you do it?
<NCommander> RAOF, Yeah, so, I built f-spot without it segfaulting on me; it did complain of missing modules though when it appeared to run its test suite
<ScottK2> NCommander: It FTBFS in my Intrepid pbuilder.
<NCommander> ScottK, i386 chroot jail
<NCommander> Hold on
<NCommander> Let me install pbuilder in the i386 chroot and rerun
<RAOF> Hm.  How long should libnet-ssleay take to build?
<ScottK2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/27000/
<ScottK2> Not very long.
<NCommander> RAOF, not long, but the test suite will fail if localhost isn't properly setup
<NCommander> ScottK, ooh, thats pretty
<NCommander> Hold on
<NCommander> I know the specific problem and how to fix (thanks for the good catch, and this teachs me to rerun pbuilder in both chroots)
<NCommander> ScottK2, do you know the preprocessor macro for 64-bit archs?
<ScottK2> Nope.
 * ScottK2 looks over at RAOF since he knows a lot about 64bit stuff.
<RAOF> You mean something that's defined on all 64bit archs, but not on 32bit archs?
<NCommander> #if (__SIZE_TYPE__ == unsigned long)
<NCommander> THat should work, right?
<NCommander> RAOF, Yeah
<RAOF> Uuurgh.
<RAOF> That fails on win64
<NCommander> Fine
<RAOF> And possibly other 64bit archs, I don't know.
<NCommander> || defined(__WIN64)
<NCommander> :-)
<RAOF> It's true for linux-ELF-x86-64
<NCommander> It's also true for ia64
<NCommander> I'll check for __lp64__, or the size_type
<RAOF> Why do you need to, incidentally?
<NCommander> THe test checks to see if a pointer can be cast to unsigned long and back
<RAOF> But why?
<NCommander> I dunno, I didn't check to see where the test is used in SSLeay
<RAOF> ScottK2: libnet-ssleay builds on AMD64
<ScottK2> OK.  So now he needs to figure one that will build on both.
<ScottK2> Thanks.
<NCommander> http://pastebin.ca/1070584 I think that will work
<NCommander> (I need to change the comment to be more specific, but code-wise)
 * RAOF doesn't know why pastebin.ca hates him so much.
<NCommander> http://paste.ubuntu.com/27002/
 * NCommander changes that to __lp64__
<RAOF> NCommander: Isn't there a "print a pointer" printf specifier?
<RAOF> Wouldn't that fix this without #if's?
 * NCommander peeks in the manpage
<NCommander> I didn't see one, but I probably missed it
<NCommander> Yeah, I don't see it
<RAOF> It isn't %p?
<NCommander> The void * pointer argument is printed in hexadecimal
<NCommander> The problem is its printing out the value of sizeof()
<NCommander> On 32 bit archs, sizeof returns uint
<NCommander> on 64, its ulong
<RAOF> I think it returns size_t, actually.
<NCommander> ok
<NCommander> size_t is different on 32 archs, and 64 then unless I am mistaken
<RAOF> %z appears to be the size_t specifier (http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Integer-Conversions.html)
 * NCommander tries it
<NCommander> RAOF, I love you long time if it works ;-)
<RAOF> Hey, all sorts of fun there: %t is the specifier for a ptrdiff_t :)
<NCommander> Nope
<NCommander> No love
 * NCommander tries %t
<NCommander> RAOF, it seems GCC doesn't recongize %t
<RAOF> Maybe you need to pass -c99?
<RAOF> -std=c99, perhaps.
<RAOF> C99: providing all sorts of shiny you can't acutally use.
<ion_> Hehe
<ion_> You probably want -std=gnu99 instead of -std=c99, i think. (Didnât read the discussion, though.)
<RAOF> The flags we're after are C99 standard; they shouldn't require the gnu extensions, right?
<anteaya> ScottK-laptop: thanks for the help earlier, the images were in the miro icon-cache
 * NCommander grumbles
<ScottK2> And where did you get miro from?
<NCommander> I really don't want to mess with the make system
<RAOF> NCommander: Then try passing CC="gcc -std=c99" in rules?
<anteaya> ScottK-laptop: checking repos i think
<NCommander> RAOF, it's ignoring CC="gcc -std=c99"
<RAOF> Does it ignore CFLAGS?
<NCommander> CHecking
<anteaya> ScottK-laptop: i do believe it is in the offical repos
<ScottK2> Hmmm.
<NCommander> RAOF, it's using quilt to call make if it makes a difference
<NCommander> (there is no call to $(MAKE)
<ScottK2> I know miro is in the official repos.  The question is, is that where you got it?
<anteaya> ScottK2: yes
<RAOF> And even if it is from the official repos, it will download things from the internet; that's it's whole purpose.
<anteaya> ScottK2: i can confirm with a dpkg command right?
 * NCommander hits his head on the desk
<ScottK2> Right.
<ScottK2> RAOF: Does it keep good logs?
<RAOF> ScottK2: Dunno, never really cared.
<RAOF> ~/.miro/miro-log shouldn't be too bad.
<ScottK2> anteaya: ^^^
<anteaya> http://pastebin.com/m59c0b447
<ScottK2> That's the entire log?
<anteaya> yes
<anteaya> i don't use it much
<anteaya> i haven't ever used it for screencasts or anything
<RAOF> What's likely happened is that miro has downloaded some channel icons/splash-screens to ~/.miro/icon-cache, and you have something trawling ~ for images.
<RAOF> What was the actual problem you had, again?
<anteaya> just to watch downloads when the other codecs don't work
<anteaya> images of people with guns playing on my slideshow screensaver
<anteaya> i don't know where the images had come from so i didn't know if i was being attacked or not
<NCommander> RAOF, some googling tells me I should check LP64 on all 64-bit compilers (and memory tells me I think thats defined on Win64 too)
<RAOF> That's probably OK, then.
<NCommander> Passes build on AMD64
<NCommander> Running pbuilder on amd64, and then will run pbuilder on i386 and submit
<NCommander> ScottK2, do you want anything else once I confirm it works on i386 and amd64 pbuilders?
<anteaya> thanks for the help
<ScottK2> Add the LP foo if you're doing it over.
 * NCommander adds foo
<NCommander> That's was a deceptively anonying package to fix, but learned much, I ahve
<ScottK2> Is the new debdiff on the bug now?
<NCommander> No
<NCommander> I'm having some pbuilder issues ...
<NCommander> The source package isn't being rebuilt with the updated patch ...
<NCommander> RAOF, thank you for your help :-)
<RAOF> :)
<NCommander> I now owe you one, since this was more intense then the mono bug
<NCommander> ok, passes pbuilder on amd64, still waiting for i386 to finish
<NCommander> if my internet connection wasn't as slow as ****
<RAOF> squid is love.
<NCommander> I don't have any of the i386 packages so its downloading
<RAOF> Ah, right.
<NCommander> This was fun to fix ^_^
 * NCommander can hear ScottK groaning from here
<NCommander> RAOF, are you a core dev?
<NCommander> Builds on i386 :-)
<RAOF> Neyope.
<NCommander> ScottK2, patch is now on launchpad
<ScottK2> OK
<NCommander> And .... launchpad's skin just changed again o_o;
<ScottK2> RAOF: Would you please build it again for me?
<RAOF> Yeah.  Strange LP.
<NCommander> ScottK2, I apologize for having given you a nice headache so late at night
 * NCommander wishes launchpad was open
<NCommander> The reason they give for not opening the code is weak at best
 * ScottK2 would settle for fast and had a good U/I.
<ScottK2> Yes.
 * NCommander is a former gforge maintainer
 * NCommander is was an FSF Savannah maintainer
<NCommander> The former had features out the wazoo, but a pain to run
<NCommander> THe later was a little feature light, but much easier to run; I even got it running acceptably on my NSLU2 (233Mhz ARM/32MB of RAM)
<ScottK2> The bigger problem though is that even though most LP developers come from a FOSS heritige, the closed nature of the project makes them closed to community input.
<NCommander> I personally think Launchpad slaughters Sourceforge in terms of usability
<NCommander> and its on par with GForge
<RAOF> I don't think I've really seen GForge.
<NCommander> Unless your building packages to work with debian/ubuntu
<NCommander> Well, Canonical has pledged to open launchpad
<NCommander> But TBH, I can't understand how it could take "years"
<NCommander> Unless Canonical had another company write it, or they bought it
<RAOF> ScottK2: Builds fine on AMD64.
<ScottK2> RAOF: Thanks.
<NCommander> ScottK2, does that mean this patch will see the light of day?
<ScottK2> NCommander: if it builds for me too on i386, yes.
<NCommander> The Debian Perl guys could not reproduce, so I don't see the patch moving upstream unless the same issue bites Debian
<ScottK2> NCommander: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
 * NCommander strikes victory pose
<ScottK2> Wait until it builds on the buildd's.
<NCommander> is there a page I can see that status (the qa page is only updated once daily)
<ScottK2> Yes.  I'll give you the link in a moment.
<ScottK2> One advantage of Main uploads is they go first on the buildd's so less waiting.
<NCommander> On my buildds for m68k
<NCommander> I have a tweak that causes my debian packages to always take prefernce ^_^
<NCommander> Speaking of contribing
<NCommander> I'm considering requesting Ubuntu Contributing Developer (I'd like an @ubuntu.com email so I can get my packages in Ubuntu to have bug reports go straight to me, and not through MOTU), but I think I'm too new to request it
<RAOF> NCommander: Actually, bug reports don't generally go to the maintainer address _at all_.
<ScottK2> NCommander: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/libnet-ssleay-perl/1.33.01-1ubuntu1
<RAOF> NCommander: If you want to maintain some packages, you subscribe to their bugmail in Launchpad (I've done so for a couple)
<ScottK2> NCommander: On Launchpad you can subscribe to bugmail for specific packages.
<NCommander> Yeah, I did that for cvsps
<NCommander> Oooh, it built on i386 :-)
<NCommander> That's a good sign, I haven't broken main!
<NCommander> woohoo
<NCommander> It built on amd64
<NCommander> THe ia64 autobuilder must be taking a nap ;-)
 * NCommander would still like an @ubuntu.com email address, but if I won't get maintianer bug reports, then its not a priority
<ScottK2> ia64 and hppa are a bit behind at the moment.
<NCommander> Knowing my luck
<NCommander> The the HP-PA buildd will self-destruct
 * NCommander saw the Debian one do that
<ScottK2> hppa is not a happy camper in general.  It's currently the weakest of the Ubuntu ports.
<NCommander> I've offered to help, but I own no hppa
<NCommander> (it looks like its a little less needy, its down to 200 FBFTS)
<NCommander> But some poor soul should sit down and bastardize d-i so it can at least install hppa ubuntu directly
<ScottK2> Unfortunately there don't appear to be any community machines for HPPA either.
 * NCommander looks on ebay
<NCommander> hppa is one of two debian archs I haven't run
<lifeless> where is lamont when you need him
<NCommander> Er, three, I haven't run ia64
<lifeless> have you run lpia?
<NCommander> I have it in a chroot if that counts
<lifeless> I don't know if it counts
<lifeless> :)
<NCommander> lifeless, you got a FTBFS failure for lpia you need looked at?
<ScottK2> lifeless: He said Debian arch.  LPIA isn't a Debian arch.
<lifeless> woo, 1.8MB of parsing to go. _nearly_ there
<lifeless> ScottK2: fair enough :)
<lifeless> NCommander: no, I was just speculating
<NCommander> I have some experience castrating d-i to bend to my will
<NCommander> if lpia needs an installer
<NCommander> I can hack one together in a few hours
<ScottK2> Good night everyone.
<lifeless> I have no idea; I would have thought it had an install mechaism already, the mobiel guys are testing it a lot :)
<NCommander> meh, pbuilder needs to fixed; either divided into a docs package and the main one, or kept together
<lifeless> moblin image creator or something
<NCommander> lifeless, you work on u-ports?
<lifeless> nope
<lifeless> just keep my ear to the ground
<NCommander> woo, libnet-ssleay-perl built on ia64
<NCommander> I properly cleared that FTFBS
<lifeless> excellent
<NCommander> lifeless, you a MOTU?
<lifeless> yup, amongst other things
<NCommander> core-dev?
<NCommander> intersting in sponsoring an FTBFS fixing patch?
<lifeless> nope, not core at this point
<lifeless> have to pack up and leave shortly; got a flight to catch
<lifeless> if its a patch to something in main you'll need a core to look at it
<NCommander> nope, not core
<NCommander> Just curious ;-)
<lifeless> where is the debdiff?
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transproxy/+bug/247886
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247886 in transproxy "FTBFS fix on AMD64/SPARC/IA-64" [Undecided,New]
<NCommander> FTBFS+lintian+compat fixes ;-)
<lifeless> looks good to me
<NCommander> thanks
<NCommander> I still need a sponsor
<lifeless> yup
<lifeless> if its not sponsored in 30 hours nag me - I'll be in the office and able to do it
<NCommander> Ok
 * NCommander pokes RAOF 
<RAOF> NCommander: Ow.  Whay?
<RAOF> Ah, that's in universe.
<NCommander> I need a sponsor
<NCommander> Yeah
<RAOF> That still looks generated from an unclean source pacakage; it includes substvars, debhelper.log, etc.
<RAOF> Also, I'm going out for a Sunday strtol.
<NCommander> whoops
<NCommander> Ok
<NCommander> Cya ;-)
 * NCommander fixses obexpushd
<lifeless> yah, I was ignoring the obvsious stuff that the rebuildI'd do would clean :)
<NCommander> Fixed that
<NCommander> and also fixed obexpushd
<NCommander> I'm having trouble with getting FTBFS patches going upstream; debian using glibc 2.8, which isn't causing their packages to break
<gaspa> is there someone with a clean hardy, that can confirm or invalid this: ï»¿bug #79364 ?
<gaspa> the test could be simply: ï»¿"apt-build -v ; sudo apt-build source mysql-server "
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 79364 in apt-build "apt-build has a critical failure before even managing to download source packages" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/79364
<andrew_sayers> gaspa: how clean is clean?
<gaspa> andrew_sayers: without intrepid repository, i mean... or at least without a lot of packages from other repos...
<andrew_sayers> Then yes, yes I can :)
<andrew_sayers> Although I might need a bit of hand-holding.
<gaspa> andrew_sayers: i really don't know, i'm tryinh to figure out why it could fail.
<gaspa> andrew_sayers: do as you can, and thanks.
<andrew_sayers> Can you use apt-build to tweak packages and rebuild them?
<andrew_sayers> If so, it might be what I need to pin down an unrelated bug.
<gaspa> andrew_sayers: it depends. you could define cflags, or other environment variables, i think it's not (now) possible use patches or other code handling.
<andrew_sayers> `apt-build -v` gives me 'apt-build version 0.12.31ubuntu1', running the second command now...
<andrew_sayers> I've not run apt-build before, so I've just added the relevant hardy sources.  It's now downloading various mysql packages.
<andrew_sayers> While we're waiting, I don't suppose you're on kubuntu and willing to do a simple test?
<gaspa> no, i've gnome. sorry.
<gaspa> but i'm running kmail.... if helps. :p
<gaspa> ... uh.
<andrew_sayers> Too late anyway - it's all downloaded :)
<andrew_sayers> Complained about some GPG problem, but no errors.
<gaspa> andrew_sayers: if it downloads it works!!
<andrew_sayers> :)
<gaspa> ok, fine. could you please wrote something on lp?
<andrew_sayers> Sure.
<andrew_sayers> Anything in particular I should say?
<gaspa> attach your log...
<gaspa> andrew_sayers: thanks. :)
<rohan> what's up with flashplugin-nonfree in ubuntu hardy? first it was updated to 10.xx in backports, now again the version number says it's 10.xx+really9.xx
<rohan> what's going on? :o
<andrew_sayers> gaspa: sure - let me know if you need anything else, and possibly thanks for pointing me in the direction of apt-build.
<gaspa> andrew_sayers: ;)
<mouz> rohan: 10.xx caused too much browser crashes
<mouz> so it is really a downgrade
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone review swt-gtk: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=swt-gtk
<nedko> should i choose python-central or python-support? i'm not sure what i need
<RAOF> nedko: Either works, really.  I've chosen python-central in the past, but that's just habit mainly.
<emgent> heya
<LucidFox> From linux.org.ru:
<LucidFox> - I'm developing a file system...
<LucidFox> - Don't get married. Just in case.
<nedko> RAOF: why you've chosen python-central?
<RAOF> Habit.
<nedko> i need to choose habit too
<nedko> :]
<RAOF> Basically, it doesn't much matter.
<nedko> this only makes choice harder
<RAOF> I think at one point python-central handled extension modules (ie: bits with C code) better, but I don't know whether that's still the case.
<RAOF> Yeah.  It's basically a choice between equivalent alternatives.  Flip a coin.
<RAOF> Or, if you like, I could tell you to use python-central, because all the python-versioning metadata is included in debian/rules rather than being spread across a couple of files.
<RAOF> I'd be lying though; it's in debian/control :)
<nedko> setup steps at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianPython/NewPolicy look simplier for python-support :)
<RAOF> We have a winner, then.  Really?
<nedko> rafl: 3 vs 5 steps, but i dont see why python versioning metadata is spread across several files.
<nedko> ups
<nedko> RAOF, sorry rafl
<rafl> no problem.
<nedko> and to make choice even harder, i'm going to use CDBS :]
<RAOF> Eh, that makes it easy.  Really, you don't have to think so much about it.
<udienz-> AnAnt: you are Ahmed El-Mahmoudy
<NCommander> Good morning world
<geser> Hi NCommander
<nedko> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=laditools
<NCommander> hey geser
<emgent> hi geser NCommander
<NCommander> hola emgent
 * NCommander throws his head into a barrel of cold water in an effort to wake up
<NCommander> anyone in the mood to sponsor YAFTBFS fix?
<emgent> NCommander: bug url ?
<emgent> :)
<NCommander> THis is becoming a morning tradition
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/obexpushd/+bug/248024
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248024 in obexpushd "Fix for FTBFS on AMD64 and other archs" [Undecided,New]
<emgent> ok nice
<emgent> i will take a look
<NCommander> My libnet-ssleay-perl fix went in last night ;-)
 * ScottK2 is still recovering from the experience.
<ScottK2> ;-)
 * NCommander gives ScottK2 super-coffee
<NCommander> It wasn't that bad ...
<ScottK2> No, not really.
<NCommander> I mean, its not like running pbuilder caused your system to panic, or space mutants to bust down the wall
<ScottK2> Nope.
<ScottK2> I do suggest that you consider making some changes to your workflow for improved reliability.  You are doing very good work, but I've seen more than once where you've submitted debdiffs using packages that weren't entirely clean.
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> I noticed that too, I usually read the debdiff, but I miss the three line substvars
<NCommander> so any improvements will be recommended
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> welcomed
<NCommander> Sorry, I can't mount /dev/coffee due to lack of beans error
<ScottK2> There are lots of ways to do it, so you need to find what works for you.
<NCommander> I usually run debian/rules clean before debdiff
<NCommander> But that sometimes seems to leave around extras
<ScottK2> Yes.
<ScottK2> Of course that'd be due to errors in clean that could be fixed.
<azeem> NCommander: don't you run debdiff on the respective source packages?
<ScottK2> I work in the source package, then always build in pbuilder so build stuff gets left behind every time.
<NCommander> Same here
<ScottK2> OK.  I was under the impression you were building in a persistent chroot.
<NCommander> what?
<NCommander> I have an interpid chroot - I run hardy on this machine
<ScottK2> It may be to early for me to communicate well.
<NCommander> and too early for me to understand ;-)
<NCommander> I'm having a lot of trouble though getting fixes into debian
<NCommander> Maintainers are unwilling to apply the changes needed because of the ftbfs due to glibc2.8
<Mez> NCommander, just send the fixes for the stuff that's relevant only to the debian version
<NCommander> ok
<ScottK2> NCommander: The other stuff can sit in BTS until Debian upgrades ...
<NCommander> yeah
<ScottK2> NCommander: Then they'll be glad of it.
 * ScottK2 had similar problems with Python 2.5 transition stuff.
<geser> NCommander: just file them and wonder when you get a close message from BTS in some months which bug it is again :)
<Mez> you shouldnt be sending stuff to debian really that doesnt fix the issue in debian - so before you send, try building the debian stuff... if you send a complete patch to a debian maintainer that fixes something - and they just need to apply the patch...
<Mez> then they'll accept it
<Mez> I would
 * NCommander looks for another package to fix
<ScottK2> Mez: Some would, some wouldn't.  If Debian isn't using the infrastructure bit that exposes the problem, then a lot of maintainers don't worry.
<Mez> ScottK2, of course, if the patch doesn't apply to debian - just let it show up in the PTS :)
<Mez> until debian are ready
 * ScottK2 recalls on package with Python 2.5 problems that the solution was to upload changes I'd put into the dpmt svn almost a  year before.
<ScottK2> on/one
<Mez> lmao - I love the fact that debians PTS tracks open bugs in ubuntu
<NCommander> I take it you've been here from the beginning I take it ScottK ?
<Mez> NCommander, "the beginning" is a relative term
<ScottK2> NCommander: No.  About a year and a half.
 * ScottK2 started using Ubuntu with Dapper and developing during Feisty.
 * Mez started using with warty and developing during breezy
 * ScottK2 is really a newcomer.
 * ion_ started with the Jolly Jellyfish release.
<azeem> NCommander: did you have trouble besides #490369 and #490389?  Cause those are the only two recent bugs I can find which are filed by you
<ion_> Back in 2009.
<azeem> ion_: those were the days
<azeem> before the big glibc->eglibc change
<ion_> And they were still using Linux instead of Hurd.
<azeem> crazy people
 * ion_ goes back to playing Duke Nukem Forever.
 * azeem goes back to his Hurd box
<DktrKranz> ScottK2, I'm working on bug 202974, is it ok for you to proceed with a SRU?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 202974 in haskell-hgl "libghc6-hgl-dev won't install on hardy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202974
 * ScottK2 looks
<DktrKranz> basically, it just needs changes from -2 in intrepid
<ScottK2> So this is fixed in Intrepid already?
<DktrKranz> Yes
<ScottK2> OK.  Go for it.  I marked in the bug.
<DktrKranz> Thanks
<emgent> heya
 * ScottK2 knocks a few off the sponsorship queue.
<emgent> :)
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: I'm looking at Bug #238439 and think it ought to be uploaded, but note you assigned it to yourself a couple of weeks ago.  Mind if I go ahead?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238439 in taskjuggler "Needs khelpcenter to provide help, but does not depend on it." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/238439
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: i committed it to debian kde svn, asked for an upload a few times, and didn't get it.
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: it would be good to actually get that revision uploaded, then sync.
<ScottK2> You'd rather I leave it for you then?  No problem.
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: actually, i'd rather you poke someone to upload it in debian kde, as i seem to have failed there :)
<ScottK2> OK.
<ScottK2> --> TODO
<Hobbsee> :) thanks
<geser> Hobbsee: doesn't your LPS(tm) doesn't work in Debian?
<Hobbsee> geser: not so far, and i haven't felt the desire to beg.
<geser> perhaps your need a more pointy one as DDs seem to develop a thick skin :)
 * sebner thinks that Hobbsee should her magic stick to do some magic in debian :)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<sebner> + use xD
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: I think if you solve the arm FTBFS your odds of getting sponsored go way up: http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=taskjuggler&arch=arm&ver=2.4.1-1&stamp=1215757932&file=log&as=raw
<Hobbsee> ScottK2: sigh.  or i could be lazy, and ask you to do that too?  :)
<Hobbsee> . o O { who really cares about arm anyway... }
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: Debian, unfortunately.
<Hobbsee> darn.
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: At a glance, I'm wondering if it needs a build-dep on kdepim-dev, but then I wonder how it built on the other archs.
<Hobbsee> well, yeah, that's what i was wondering....
<Hobbsee> that's the sort of error i would have expected to fail on all arches
<Hobbsee> or, not arm.
<NCommander> I'm back
<ScottK2> NCommander: You know about arm, right?
<NCommander> arm as in the limb, arm the platform, aka armel for new ABI, or armeb for big endian?"
<ScottK2> arm the platform
<NCommander> Yeah, I have an arm box running debian
<ScottK2> As in why the heck did this FTBFS on arm and no where else: http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.cgi?pkg=taskjuggler&arch=arm&ver=2.4.1-1&stamp=1215757932&file=log&as=raw
<NCommander> sounds like libtool isn't happy
<ScottK2> We're trying to get Debian to upload a bug fix in that package, so if you could help us figure out the arm problem, it'd be greatly appreciated.  I suspect that'd help our chances of getting uploaded immensely.
<NCommander> Sure
<NCommander> My arm box is down, so I can only give advice, and not actually build anything
<ScottK2> Thanks.
<ScottK2> I'll take that.
<NCommander> Did it FTBFS on armel?
<NCommander> libkmime built on normal ARM
<ScottK2> No. http://buildd.debian.org/pkg.cgi?pkg=taskjuggler
<NCommander> It appears to be a problem with libkcal2-dev, and not kdepim-dev
<NCommander> If you look closely, its uses libkcal2-dev to resolve the build-dep
<NCommander> Right, ok, hold on, its a build-deps problem
<NCommander> ScottK2, have it explicately require kdepim4-dev vs. libkcal2-dev on arm and armel
<NCommander> It appears the arm's libtool does so weird things on various library linker scripts, but with the packages its installing on arm, there is no libkmine.la
<ScottK2> Thanks.
<ScottK2> Hobbsee: ^^^ I think if you committ that, your odds of an upload go way up.
<NCommander> Yeah, its not the first time I've seen whacky libtool behavior on arm
<NCommander> But the arm architecture itself is just plan weirfd
<ScottK2> I've heard that Ubuntu will soon have armel, but no official announcement yet.
<NCommander> I'd love to help wit that port
<NCommander> It will replace Debian on the ARM fileserver
<ScottK2> AFAIK, lool is the one you want to talk to about that.
<NCommander> Hobbsee, if it still FTBFS, ping me, I'll fire up the arm box and investiage some more
<NCommander> who?
<ScottK2> Loic Minier
<NCommander> I get that weird feeling there is some Ubuntu-devel mailing list I should be subscribed to
<Nafallo> mailx -s subscribe ubuntu-devel-request@lists.ubuntu.com
<Nafallo> :-P
<Nafallo> also: Hi! :-D
<NCommander> hola Nafallo
<NCommander> wow, Inkspace is *not* happy
<emgent> heya Nafallo :)
<Nafallo> hi emgent :-)
<Nafallo> dooh. I've already said hi
<Nafallo> bad redundancy :-P
<NCommander> rofl
 * NCommander is right now emailing patches upstream to Debian
<ScottK2> NCommander: That was mentioned on some IRC channel.  I don't recall which one.
<NCommander> which one what?
<ScottK2> Anyone here like ocaml stuff?
<ScottK2> That = "Ubuntu will have an armel port"
<ScottK2> If there is (someone who likes ocaml, gtk, and lpia), please see Bug #248132
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248132 in lablgtk2 "lpia package does not provide lablgtk.cmxa (and other .cmxa files)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248132
<NCommander> why can't debian have a web based interface for reporting bugs -_-;
<NCommander> Ew
<NCommander> THat's an evil bug
<NCommander> main isn't happy with the new glibc
<NCommander> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15966590/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.mbr_1.1.10-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz - I'm debating the best way to possibly fix this
<ScottK2> NCommander: Becuase reportbug works just fine.
<NCommander> ScottK, not if you don't have an SMTP server Debian can accept, and I haven't found what magic is needed to get reportbug to work against gmail
<ScottK2> NCommander: Install postfix locally and then smarthost to gmail.
<ScottK2> IIRC there are plenty of HOW TOs on that.
<NCommander> I've never gotten it to work with postfix
<NCommander> I'll install exim4 which I have gotten to work like that
 * ScottK2 has postfix on his laptop smarthost to one of his own mail servers.
<ScottK2> Whatever works.
 * ScottK2 has had a lot of good out of Postfix, but ymmv.
<NCommander> I love postfix
<NCommander> I use it when I have an actual net facing server
<NCommander> But I've never gotten it to work with a smarthost without a whole heap of trouble
<NCommander> ^with Gmail
<NCommander> Since gmail's smtp's servers are weird
<ScottK2> Hmmm.  I've never tried gmail, but getting postfix to login via sasl when relaying isn't generally to hard.
<NCommander> With TLS, and on an non-standard port?
<ScottK2> With TLS, but not on a non-standard port.
<ScottK2> Is gmail using smtps?
<ScottK2> If so, then Postfix doesn't support that as a client.
<tuxbuntu> GMail uses SMTP with TLS
<nedko> is there a way i can sign launchpad PPA built binary packages?
<geser> no
<proppy> Hi, what can I do to help with bug #226587
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 226587 in hardy-backports "Please backport xmonad and xmonad-contrib 0.7-1 from intrepid to hardy" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/226587
<proppy> regarding ï»¿ xmonad-contrib backport
<Laney> proppy: It's in hardy
<NCommander> If backports done similar to debian backports, I'd do it.
<proppy> because it is marked as 'Fix Released'
<proppy> but it seems that the -contrib one is not backported
<proppy> oups I'm wrong hardy-backports (libdevel): 	Extensions to xmonad [universe]
<proppy> 0.7-1~hardy1: amd64 i386
<proppy> sorry for the confusion
<proppy> now I should find out, why packages.ubuntu.com is listing it and not apt-cache
<NCommander> I'll be back later
<NCommander> Peace universe!
<proppy> hi warp10
<warp10> heya proppy and all
<tuxbuntu> hello!
<AnAnt> Hello, can someone REVU this swt-gtk upload: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=swt-gtk  ?
<ScottK2> I'm wearing my UDS Prague t-shirt today and out running errands.
<ScottK2> I walk into a store and a guy that works there says, "I love your shirt.  All my friends use Ubuntu."
<ScottK2> I ask him why he doesn't and he says he's a Mac guy.
<ScottK2> "Did you know you can dual boot on a Mac ...."
<ScottK2> Another convert.
<ScottK2> ;-)
<Nafallo> lol
<Nafallo> awesome
<emgent> heheh
<ScottK2> YokoZar: ^^^ - The thing that he really envied his Ubuntu using friends was the ability to run Windows games using Wine.
<bdrung> http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=3-329Czokjk
<aanjhan> ScottK, coolness!
<emgent> ScottK-laptop: ping
<ScottK-laptop> Pong.
<nxvl> emgent: Congratulations! Did you read my e-mail?
<emgent> nxvl: thanks :)
<emgent> ScottK-laptop: can you take a look for main in bug #248167
<ubottu> emgent: Bug 248167 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/248167 is private
 * ScottK-laptop looks
<emgent> (18:57) ( CIA-53) Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 3834:27ddf6dfa7bd 1.8/MoinMoin/macro/AdvancedSearch.py: XSS  security fix for advanced search form: added escaping (thanks to Emanuele Gentili from Ubuntu for discovering the  problem) (ported from 1.7)
<emgent> if you can please upload it
<ScottK-laptop> emgent: Yes.  I'll have a look at it.
<emgent> nxvl: yeah i saw eheheh :)
<nxvl> emgent: btw, did have time today or are you busy/about to leave?
<emgent> I have to leave between 20 minutes
<nxvl> emgent: can you guide me on how to use security-tracker in 20 minutes?
<emgent> if you can this night, now I should go to make a shower
<emgent> sorry :\
<ScottK-laptop> emgent: I'm reverting the standards change part of your patch.
<nxvl> emgent: ok, i will ping you later :D
<ScottK-laptop> I think it's of little point and I wouldn't want us to maintain a diff over it if Debian takes your patch.
<emgent> ok ScottK-laptop np
<emgent> i have to go now, see you later people
<balachmar> Hi, I am want to package something use the video tutorials, but the piece of software uses a software license they have invented themselves, can I still use that video as a guideline?
<nxvl> wooohoo augeas has been accepted on debian too
<nxvl> \o/
<nxvl> one more package for me
<ScottK-laptop> emgent: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu.
<emgent> ScottK-laptop: np :)
<emgent> now waiting help.ubuntu.com fix
<emgent> oh it`s late. bye! :)
<geser> balachmar: is the license somewhere online?
<balachmar> geser: I am looking for it, but there was no link in the copying file
<nxvl> balachmar: yes, you just need to change the way daniel dealed with the license
<geser> if the software is redistributable
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: there is no build-admin here, isn't it?
<ScottK-laptop> Why?
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: pbuilder
<ScottK-laptop> Someone might be around in an emergency, but not normally.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: needs given-nack
<nxvl> back*
<geser> nxvl: texlive-xetex is installable again?
<nxvl> geser: on my local pbuilder it was
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: I think any core-dev can do that from the web U/I now.
 * ScottK-laptop looks.
<geser> nxvl: have you universe enabled?
<nxvl> yup
<ScottK-laptop> I can retry it.
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: please
<ScottK-laptop> geser: What do you think?  It's your upload.
<geser> nxvl: texlive-xetex (main) depends on dvipdfx (universe)
<ScottK-laptop> nxvl: Disable Universe in your pbuilder and try again.
<nxvl> ok
<geser> ScottK-laptop: I need to figure out if dvipdfmx needs either to be promoted or dropped from the depends of texlive-xetex
<balachmar> sorry dropped out... network-manager still drops my connection after a bit (even with 0.7)
<geser> balachmar: which software are you trying to package?
<ScottK-laptop> geser: I'll leave it then.
<nxvl> failed
<nxvl> ScottK-laptop: my mistake, sorry
<ScottK-laptop> No problem.
 * nxvl start fixing
<ScottK-laptop> It's one we've all made.
<slytherin> geser: Do you have time to review debdiff at 247946?
<geser> bug 247946
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247946 in imagej "Please add Sun JDK to build dependency, fixes FTBFS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/247946
<warp10> Hi *
<nxvl> btw
<nxvl> we'll need to focus a lot on FTBFS since the lastest Compiler Flags changes
<geser> slytherin: s/hardy/intrepid/ in debian/changelog but otherwise ok
<slytherin> geser: my mistake. I always take care to change it. :-(
<slytherin> geser: I am upadting debdiff
<warp10> albert23: FYI, enthought-traits-ui 2.0.5-1 has been uploaded in Debian. Please, file a sync request for it when you have time (I did it for the other packages of the suite already)
<slytherin> geser: done
<geser> slytherin: will upload when I'm home again (if nobody does it till then)
<slytherin> geser: Sure, no problem
<slytherin> geser: And let Debian guys know on my behalf that I hate arch:all packages in contrib section.
<nxvl> geser: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=430373
<ubottu> Debian bug 430373 in texlive-xetex "texlive-xetex: no configuration file for xdvipdfmx (was: Accessing mathmatics symbols within XeTeX)" [Normal,Closed]
<nxvl> geser: i would drop dvipdfmx from depends to recommends
<geser> nxvl: recommends should be main now too
<nxvl> geser: i think no
<nxvl> geser: there was a discussion on this topic little ago
<nxvl> geser: and they said that it might be like it is now
<nxvl> but that if my memory is working good, which is isn't this last days
<geser> nxvl: I plan to ask Norbert about the best solution, drop the dependency or MIR it
<nxvl> geser: but if a recommeds fails to install it won't break anything
<nxvl> that i'm really sure
<geser> nxvl: moving it to recommends will make the package installable again, but I don't know if you will find a sponsor for the upload
<nxvl> geser: there you have the bug report
<nxvl> i will ask pitti
<nxvl> geser: let's move to -devel
<geser> nxvl: reading the debian bug the dependency was added because of the bug, so dropping it again doesn't look like a good idea
<geser> I guess it'a s MIR then
<nxvl> geser: well..
<nxvl> yeah maybe
<slytherin> Can anyone please confirm if sample rules file at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete is correct? I am not getting any binary in resultant package
<albert23> warp10: done :-)
<ScottK-laptop> slytherin: At a glance it looks right.
<warp10> albert23: ...and just ACKed. Thank you! :)
<albert23> warp10: thanks
<slytherin> ScottK-laptop: is .install file necessary?
<ScottK-laptop> slytherin: Depends on the package.
<ScottK-laptop> Note that the sample rules are for an arch:any package.  If you are doing arch:all it won't work.
<balachmar_> Hi, I am trying to build my first package, and I am getting an error when trying to use pbuilder on my dsc file. Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed
<slytherin> ScottK-laptop: it is hello program. I was trying to conduct intro session in our loco channel
<balachmar_> I think it might be this one: Unpacking libx11-6 (from .../libx11-6_2%3a1.1.3-1ubuntu2_amd64.deb) ... FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.24-19-generic/modules.dep: No such file or directory
<balachmar_> (sorry if you already answered, I dropped out...)
<nxvl> warp10: thank you for proftpd :D
<warp10> nxvl: my pleasure :)
<balachmar_> Do I need to do something special to have a chroot with x11 support?
<slytherin> ScottK-laptop: something is missing from that rules file. Not able to figure out what. Got to go now. Will try to debug tomorrow.
<geser> afaik you need access to the X socket found in /tmp
<geser> balachmar_: ^^
<balachmar_> but so I need to do something special with sudo pbuildercreate
<geser> you need X in your pbuilder?
<slytherin> geser: free?
<geser> sort of
<balachmar_> geser: I don't know but I get this error: E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed. and earlier: Setting up libx11-6 (2:1.1.3-1ubuntu2) ...
<balachmar_> FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.24-19-generic/modules.dep: No such file or directory
<balachmar_> geser: So I thought maybe x11 is not allowed in the pbuilder I have set up
<balachmar_> But I am probably mistaken
<slytherin> geser: Can you please take a look at sample rules file at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete and see if you can find any problem? I am trying to build hello package as per instructions there and resulting package does not include a binary
<ScottK-laptop> For building it shouldn't need anything special.
<slytherin> geser: You know I am not very good at C. :-D
<slytherin> geser: I have to leave now. It is midnight. I will catch up with you tomorrow.
<balachmar_> ScottK-laptop: your last remark was for me?
<ScottK-laptop> balachmar_: Try pbuilder login and see if you can install the package from in the pbuilder.
<ScottK-laptop> Yes.
<balachmar_> ScottK-laptop: If I log into pbuilder and do: sudo apt-get install libx11-6; I get the same error
<ScottK-laptop> OK.  I don't on mine.
<ScottK-laptop> So I think you have a pbuilder setup error
<ScottK-laptop> What arch are you one?
<balachmar_> 64bit
<balachmar_> (the normal 64bit)
<ScottK-laptop> I'm on i386, so it may be a 64bit specific problem.
<ScottK-laptop> Anyone have a 64bit hardy pbuilder handy?
<balachmar_> I am running sudo pbuilder create again
<balachmar_> because the failing internet connection may have messed something up
<balachmar_> or doesn't it actually retrieve anything?
<balachmar_> same error
<balachmar_> mmm, I am going to sleep for now, will try some other time...
<balachmar_> Will post something on the forums first
<crimsun> balachmar_: the modules.dep "error" is a red herring.
<balachmar_> crimsum: which means it doesn't mean anything?
<crimsun> balachmar_: have you pastebinned the entire pbuilder output?
<balachmar_> crimsun: nope but I have now: http://pastebin.com/m2ea5c57
<balachmar_> Also created this thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5378699#post5378699
<balachmar_> Since I am going off to sleep in a few minutes, but I will wait for you crimsun if you see anything special
<crimsun> balachmar_: what're Build-Depends?
<crimsun> what're the Build-Depends, rather
<crimsun> my initial hunch is that you're missing a component (universe?)
<balachmar_> there are quite a few, but maybe they should all be -dev instead of the normal libs...
<balachmar_> I have added the deps, to my post on the forum
<crimsun> can you post the source package?
<balachmar_> http://openftd.signalrunner.com/openftd-1.1.1.tar.bz2
<crimsun> and your diff.gz and dsc?
<balachmar_> crimsun: ooh not quickly I fear...
<balachmar_> And now I really have to go, else my girlfriend will get mad at me...
<nhaines> I have a vague and nebulous question.  :)
<crimsun> we may have vague and nebulous answers.
<nhaines> I'm finally sitting down to look at my PyRoom package to get it into intrepid.  I'm wondering whether there's a very clear HOWTO on getting standalone Python applications packaged according to Debian NewPython policy.
<ScottK-laptop> nhaines: I don't know about a how to, but there are some good examples you can use.
<nhaines> In particular, PyRoom 0.2 doesn't use disttools, and all development is now on 0.3, which will soon be restructured to use distutils.
<ScottK-laptop> If you're using distutils it's easy.
<nhaines> We're not, so that's the hard part.  :)
<ScottK-laptop> Most of the work goes into getting setup.py correct.
<ScottK-laptop> Yes, but that's work you already plan on doing.
<ScottK-laptop> I'd suggest do that first, release a 0.2.1 or something that uses disutils and then package that.
<ScottK-laptop> Then your packaging will be easy to update for future releases.
<nhaines> Assuming an application that is split into modules, where should the application install itself?
<ScottK-laptop> The application itself probably goes in /usr/bin
 * ScottK-laptop needs to run.
<nhaines> Right now everything goes into /usr/share/pyroom, with a symlink in usr/bin to /usr/share/pyroom.py
<nhaines> Thanks, ScottK, for the suggestions.  :)
<ScottK-laptop> that works, IIRC.
<nhaines> I'll have to see if I can sneak it past MOTU then until we get 0.3 ready.
<cody-somerville> woot.
 * cody-somerville just closed five bugs.
<nhaines> Congrats!  :D
<laga> bonus points for marking them "won't fix" with "RTFM" in the comment field ;)
<cody-somerville> I didn't do that! :P
<Nafallo> lol
<cody-somerville> I'm going to have to crackdown on aMSN here soon
<Adri2000> cody-somerville: why?
<bdrung> can a main sponsor have a look at the trivial patch for bug #248211?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248211 in dhcdbd "Needs a final "." at end of package description." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248211
<cody-somerville> Adri2000, It needs some TLC
<bdrung> should i post this request in ubuntu-devel?
<cody-somerville> bdrung, no
<cody-somerville> bdrung, you should subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors
<bdrung> cody-somerville: done
<Adri2000> cody-somerville: are you going to do some upload of amsn?
<cody-somerville> Adri2000, Why do you ask?
<Adri2000> because amsn upstream asked me a few days ago to update the package to their latest version, which fixes a pretty important bug it seems. I haven't yet found the time to work on it though
<cody-somerville> Adri2000, Okay. I just noticed there was a new upstream version after you asked. Did you want to handle it?
<ScottK> bdrung: That's a pretty minor change to do an upload for.
<ScottK> Personally, I wouldn't bother, but you can subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to the bug and maybe someone will.
<Adri2000> cody-somerville: not particularly. if you want to do it, go ahead. they told me the bug fixed in this version prevents people from connecting, so if it's the case it may be worth considering SRU as well
<crimsun> mm, there are some pretty bitesized main fixes for rsync, acpid, smartmontools, klogd, and sysklogd
<crimsun> (at least those that I uncovered on a dist-upgrade from 8.04 to 8.10)
<crimsun> (deprecated multiuser update-rc.d syntax)
<crimsun> I fixed pulseaudio long ago, but it apparently hasn't been merged?
<Festor> ember,
<Festor> are you here?
<Festor> ember, see this
<Festor> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/brasero-list/2008-July/msg00013.html
<Festor> because you did this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/247609
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 247609 in brasero "Please sponsor brasero 0.7.91-0ubuntu2 (main) into Intrepid" [Undecided,New]
<Syntux> Good day
<cyberix> I'm going to package a simple Python library. Please point me towards a good example.
<cyberix> What is the common way to go with stuff like pyrex?
<cyberix> the source tarball contains a prepyrexed c code
<cyberix> the pyrex source is used for development
<cyberix> do I have to recreate the c code from pyrex source at package building time?
<cyberix> or may/should I use the released one?
<cyberix> Upstream told me to use released one, so that is what I'm going to do
<nhaines> If the source already includes the released one, you shouldn't modify the source tarball.
<cyberix> It includes both the generated c source and the pyrex source that is supposed to be used for further development
<cyberix> Do you usually run autotools at packaging stage?
<cyberix> or only while the original tar ball is released?
<cyberix> The developer told me that the pyrex source is cranky and might only work with some specific version of pyrex
<nhaines> I'm not clear on those specifics, unfortuantely.
<DktrKranz> Lutin, one of our users pointed me to bug 248117, do you plan to upload a new kdenlive revision soon?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 248117 in kdenlive "[solved] Kdenlive crash on kubuntu 8.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248117
<Lutin> DktrKranz: I've not had any time for it in hardy unfortunately, and I doubt I will have during intrepid :/
<DktrKranz> Lutin, ah... it's a pity :/ If you want, I can have a look at this issue and eventually provide a fix (for Hardy too via SRU)
<Lutin> DktrKranz: even though I'll try to have a look, feel free to do so
<Lutin> DktrKranz: but at first sight, the issue is unlikely in kdenlive itself, or at least is not reproduceable eveywhere (works fine here without libxcb-composite0)
<DktrKranz> I don't see a direct relationship too
<DktrKranz> I'll do some debugging tests on a clean box and see what's the real issue
<Lutin> DktrKranz: started to do so, but I can't reproduce it at all ...
<DktrKranz> mh... weird
<Lutin> and it doesn't try to dlopen(), FWIW
 * DktrKranz needs to grab some kubuntu ISOs
<Lutin> DktrKranz: maybe next week I'll find some time to update mlt and mlt++
<DktrKranz> do you think it's because of them?
<Lutin> no. but it's a first step before getting a newer kdenlive :)
<DktrKranz> heh
#ubuntu-motu 2009-07-06
<savvas> is there a way to prevent a package from building in certain architectures? can "Architecture" be used for the Source package in debian/control?
<StevenK> savvas: The simplest way is to get the package added to Packages-arch-specific, and then Soyuz won't even add builds for those arches
<savvas> ah, it's an old package, gambas 1 :)
<savvas> the best way would be to patch it for 2, but I don't know that programming language hehe
<savvas> StevenK: thanks though, noted!
<dholbach> good morning
<slytherin> dholbach: good morning. :-)
<dholbach> hi slytherin
<DanMcGoo> hi
<DanMcGoo> need help
<micahg> DanMcGoo: it's usually easier to just post your issue
<micahg> someone will reply if they can
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<DanMcGoo> ok ^^
<DanMcGoo> I am trying to configure mini-dinstall and pbuilder in order to resolve some dependencies
<dholbach> hi iulian
<DanMcGoo> in order to test one of my package building
<DanMcGoo> but it does not seems to work
<loell> general question, if one is to package for debian, does one really needs to setup a debian system and not ubuntu?
<gaspa> loell: it's really better, you can find differences in build systems, too.
<loell> gaspa, it's just i'm really frustrated at setting up sid :(
<gaspa> loell: just use a virtual machine.
<loell> sidux?
<loell> i mean vm with sidux? or generic sid?
<gaspa> loell: I didn't know sidux... it depends from how it differ from a clean debian, imho.
<loell> ok
<loell> this has actually made me appreciate more, at how ubuntu makes it easier for packagers
<directhex> i just use a pbuilder & wait to get moaned at if it breaks in a real environment
<directhex> i'm naughty like that
<siretart`> directhex: how do you test your debian builds then? pbuilder login?
<loell> on related question, does lintian depend on specific build environment?
<directhex> siretart, aye
<loell> directhex, i wish i could do something like that too, but not having a mentor is difficult to hide what your build environment really is :)
<directhex> loell, it becomes easier (to break the archive?) ifwhen the powers that be approve my DD application
<loell> directhex, oh my, i couldn't wait to be under your wings :D
<loell> OTH, how about i should just do the revu route then give back to debian later?
<loell> how feasible would that be?
<loell> or more generally, how does ubuntu give back to debian again? ;)
<RAOF> loell: Well, by joining one of the various debian CLI teams!
<loell> ah i see
<slytherin> directhex: banshee works very well in jaunty (i386). :-)
<slytherin> loell: What problems are you facing setting up sid?
<directhex> slytherin, i wish i had the means to track down this ppc thing though :(
<directhex> slytherin, lack of access to hardware sucks. is there no way to use qemu effectively?
<loell> slytherin, setting up the build environment
<loell> my bad, for taking a while to reply.
<slytherin> loell: I thoought you were having issues in installing Debian sid
<loell> slytherin, and that too
<slytherin> loell: what kind of issues in installation?
<slytherin> directhex: how hard is it to track without hardware?
<loell> minor once, i must concede
<loell> like no grub entry for ubuntu
<loell> no pidgin package!?
<directhex> slytherin, well, it's a PPC-only bug you've got, so i need a way to reproduce it to isolate it.
<directhex> slytherin, i think the problem is with the sqlite binding, but that's a pure guess
<loell> slytherine, in ubuntu, ubuntu-dev meta-package would most probably be enough
<loell> but i'm stumped on how to redo that on sid
<loell> err i mean ubuntu-dev-tools
<slytherin> directhex: hmm, does it look like one of those endian related issues?
<directhex> slytherin, i don't know. not obviously so, but i'd be surprised if it was something else
<slytherin> loell: there is no ubuntu-dev-tools package for Debian (it's obvious). And you don't need ubuntu-dev-tools to setup pbuilder for Debian sid.
<slytherin> directhex: do you have any idea where I should I look for the problem? Banshee code or sqlite bindings?
<loell> which i just installed pbuilder which requires me a mirror?
<loell> i could have swear i've use pbuilder in ubuntu many times, but setting a mirror wasn't one of them, when i use it
<slytherin> loell: have you gone through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto It nicely explains how to setup different chroots from Debian and Ubuntu.
<slytherin> directhex: pm?
<directhex> slytherin, well the challenge is trying to find a reproducible test case, but it's such a wide search space :/
<directhex> slytherin, gah, and the debugger is only for i386/amd64
<bigon> could someone have a look at bug 389203 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389203 in farsight "libfarsight incorrectly linked against libjingle" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389203
<bigon> it's for a sru (no changes only rebuild)
<roshan08> hi all, i am writing a desktop app for blogging, how does a deb gets included in the ubuntu repo
<Ampelbein> roshan08: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<roshan08> Ampelbein, ok thanks
<rrittenhouse> Anyone know how soon firefox 3.5 might be available as a replacement to firefox 3.0 in 9.04?
<ogra> never ?
<RainCT> ogra: I think it'll be made available in -backports
<ogra> right
<ogra> but not as a replacement
<slytherin> ogra is correct here. It will never be made available as replacement.
<RainCT> right, missed that part of the question
<RainCT> (but it can be set as the default browser in System -> Preferences -> Preferred Applications, of course)
<ogra> indeed
<slytherin> geser: It is bugs like this - http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=535919 - that make the sync of maven related packages very time consuming. :-(
<ubottu> Debian bug 535919 in doxia "doxia: JAVA_HOME in debian/rules does not correspond to default-jdk" [Important,Open]
<geser> slytherin: does it at least build with openjdk?
<slytherin> geser: it should, I guess.
<slytherin> geser: there are two options 1. Sync all the maven related packages from Debian and try solving FTBFS on our own. 2. Try test building the packages first, report any FTBFS to Debian and then sync them. What do you suggest?
<geser> depends on how quick it get fixed in Debian, I'd probably do a mix of 1 and 2: Test build, upload (if patch is necessary) or sync, and forward the patch to Debian
<directhex> moo
<artfwo> Hi! I wonder is it possible to backport the fix for bug 309841 to Hardy and Intrepid as an update (not a backport)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 309841 in ia32-libs "[jaunty] some ia32 libs are linked in weird places" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/309841
<bddebian> Heya gang
<iulian> Hello bddebian.
<bddebian> Hi iulian
<geser> Hi bddebian
<bddebian> Heya geser
<slytherin> TheMuso: did you get any chance to test your theory regarding build failures on powerpc?
<slytherin> dholbach: nice and to the point of reply. :-)
<dholbach> slytherin: thanks for the flowers :)
<dholbach> nhandler: I don't know if I replied to your UbuntuDeveloperWeek edit, but if you can get a perl packaging session rolling for UDW - that'd be fantastic
<dholbach> nhandler: can you please get them to pick a date and time? :)
<nhandler> dholbach: I'm still talking with some of them. I'll try and get them to choose a date and time sometime this week
<dholbach> excellent
<dholbach> thanks a lot nhandler!
<dholbach> much appreciated
<nhandler> :)
<dholbach> the earlier we get the schedule together, the better :)
<nhandler> dholbach: I think we should make a stronger effort to get the Debian teams involved in these sessions. Most of the tools/procedures would be the same, but it would boost interaction between Ubuntu and Debian.
<dholbach> absolutely
<Laney> will there be a Debian collaboration session?
<Laney> has there been before?
<dholbach> Laney: there has
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0901/Debian
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0802/Debian
<Laney> yay
<dholbach> and maybe at UOW too
<dholbach> if you could help to chase up people who want to run a session and get them to drop me an email, I'd really really appreciate it :)
<Laney> we have some DDs in here
<dholbach> maybe something about Packaging QA efforts?
<dholbach> like NBS, getting a package to be lintian-clean, etc.
<dholbach> finding out what a new standards-version is about
<dholbach> and so on
<Laney> DktrKranz: geser: gaspa: In case you guys didn't notice, pkg-haskell is now live
<DktrKranz> Laney: uh?
<Laney> debian team
<Laney> just pinged the people who I thought might care
<DktrKranz> ah, cool
<DktrKranz> wasn't a team up already?
<Laney> not really
<Laney> it existed but was dead
<gaspa> Laney: saw right now your post.
<Laney> \o
<DktrKranz> Laney: did you mail something?
<Laney> to who?
<DktrKranz> ubuntu-motu, or whatever?
<Laney> nope
<Laney> thought it was a bit too niche for anyone to care
<gaspa> Laney: so, will we stand with 6.10.3 ? (i don't seen any news about 6.12 )
<Laney> i guess so :(
<Laney> Joachim just came up with a tool to generate the required rebuilds. I'll hack that up for Ubuntu and then we can start to clean up the mess
<gaspa> Laney: is there a wiki page?
<Laney> there's wiki.d.o/haskell but most stuff is happening on the ML now
<gaspa> I hear something about it... but never investigate.
<gaspa> ah
<Laney> come to the IRC channel
<DktrKranz> Laney: great, we really need it.
<kklimonda> asac, why doesn't firefox 3.5 (the one from jaunty-security) doesn't use mozilla branding?
<kklimonda> erm, doesn't.. sigh.. i need some sleep
<asac> kklimonda: we only ship the default browser with official branding
<asac> also we explicitly want the package to be installed side by side
<asac> and having same branding causes confusino then
<asac> because you cannot identify, what icon mean what ;)
<kklimonda> i see, thanks
<asac> but first reason is the dominating reason. also changing branding in a -security update is beyond its scope (even beyond SRU)
<asac> its a main UI element ... and changing UI is officially forbidden
<kklimonda> mhm
<joaopinto> kklimonda, that bug report you were handling for cherrypy, I believe you used it for an SRU please note that Karmic's version is still not fixed (or was not, the last time I have checked)
<kklimonda> joaopinto, i know about it
<joaopinto> ok
<kklimonda> joaopinto, i think I've attached a debdiff for it to update to 3.1.2.. I'm almost sure that I should have done it differently (i.e. attach .orig.tar.gz and .diff.gz) but I couldn't find a right page when I was last working on that
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys, I'm trying to package from scratch an app. This app already comes with a debian/ directory. What should be done in this cases?
<nhandler> RoAkSoAx: You can try and contact the upstream developer to try and have them remove that directory from the tarball
<RoAkSoAx> nhandler, if they refuse to do that?? Should I just debianize it myself?
<hggdh> RoAkSoAx, you can code a get-orig-source to clean up the upstream tarball, and then debianise from there
<hggdh> (in ./debian/rules)
<RoAkSoAx> hggdh, you mean for example create a script that cleans up the upstreams tarball or a Makefile that does that?
<hggdh> RoAkSoAx, if this is a new package, just clean it up; then, in the ./debian/rules that you will have, add in a get-orig-source rule to grab a new/current version. This will allow for a reviewer to confirm there are no other changes to the upstream source
<RoAkSoAx> hggdh, ok thanks :)
<hggdh> in the get-orig-source, you download the source from upstream, remove the ./debian directory, and tarball it
<RoAkSoAx> ok cool :)
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Repacking is not required unless you need to remove a file completely in their debian dir.  It's up to you if you want to fix their packaging or do your own.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok. I guess doing my own packaging will be better then. Thanks :)
<neversfelde> Hi, how can I replace a ../0.9.951.0Beta1/.. in a watch file?
<Ampelbein> neversfelde: untested: versionmangle=s/\/0\.9\.951\.0Beta1\//<whateveryouwant>
<neversfelde> Ampelbein: thank you
<daurnimator_> hi
<daurnimator_> theres a couple of lua librarys I would really like to be put in ubuntu repos, is there someone that can help?
<micahg> ping mdeslaur_
<daurnimator_> ok, I filed a bug for one package
<daurnimator_> but theres another I'm not sure if I should file for: its a new library that has just had it's first release...
<mdeslaur_> micahg: pong
<micahg> mdeslaur_: did your phpmyadmin updates take care of all the outstanding CVEs?
<mdeslaur_> micahg: yes, except CVE-2008-2960 on hardy
<micahg> ok, cool
<mdeslaur_> micahg: I didn't make updates for dapper though
<micahg> should I open a new bug report if more are released?
<mdeslaur_> micahg: sure
<micahg> ok, thanks mdeslaur_
<Arimal> ï»¿can anyone help me out with using dpkg-scanpackages to make a repository? for some reason it is not printing anything into the Packages file
<Arimal> I'm trying to make a local repository
<Arimal> I've read the man page and I believe I have everything set right, but for some reason it isn't outputting anything
<azeem> Arimal: what command are you running?
<Arimal> find . -name "*.deb" > override
<Arimal> then
<Arimal> dpkg-scanpackages -m /media/disk/Loot/Debs/dists/hardy/main/binary-i386 override > Packages
<Arimal> then
<Arimal> cat Packages | gzip -c > Packages.gz
<azeem> AFAIK, dpkg-scanpackages expects a path where to look for .debs
<azeem> and the current directory is not default
<Arimal> I've tried messing with the path in the dpkg-scanpackages
<Arimal> I tried just a    .
<Arimal> while in that directory
<azeem> no idea then, sorry
<Arimal> it gives some error info saying there are duplicates and everything, so it is finding the packages, but for some reason it's just not outputting
<azeem> maybe Packages is read-only or something?
<Arimal> thanks for trying azeem
<Arimal> I deleted it before starting... so it's generated new each time through
<Arimal> I've been wracking my brain over this because this script used to work fine
 * ajmitch just has something like:
<ajmitch> dpkg-scanpackages . -a amd64 /dev/null
<ajmitch> so an empty override file, and everything below the current directory
<Arimal> so /dev/null is the override?
<Arimal> hmmm
<Arimal> brb
<Arimal> will try it
<ajmitch> or you could try something like reprepro
<Arimal> hmmm.... still no output but i did get an error this time... apparently it doesn't like the froswire deb ;)   trying again
#ubuntu-motu 2009-07-07
<Arimal> that was it
<Arimal> frostwire deb was malformed
<Arimal> thanks for taking the time to answer my questions
<Arimal> :)
<popey> directhex: oooooooo
<directhex> hiya popey! \o/
<ajmitch> popey: you saw the bacon?
<popey> oh yus
<directhex> riddles taste better with baconnaise
<popey> isnt that a nice thing to go to bed on
<ajmitch> on bacon?
<ajmitch> what an uncomfortable way to sleep
<popey> tasty bed
<popey> if sticky
<jumentous> hi, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-launcher mentions updates newer than the packaged release, i haven't had much experience with launchpad - will it mention somewhere where this repo is held/
<persia> jumentous, Generally, if the spec is to do something beyond the archive, the specific location is mentioned in the spec.
<persia> In the case of that specific spec, the work was never done, and kourou is unlikely to be in any flavour by default for karmic.
<jumentous> i know, unfortunately i'm stuck with it for the time being
<jumentous> i read completed by, date and release notes as a completed spec
<jumentous> obviously they are not
<jumentous> thanks
<jumentous> persia, i see you are linked to mer also, is there a similar more complete launcher than kourou? mer seems to have scrapped launching from home window altogether though things such as adding a background are obviously possible in maemo
<persia> heh.  I'm not really a fan of launching from the home window.  If one must do that, kourou seems a pleasant implementation.
<persia> If you'd like to improve kourou, I suspect upstream would welcome an interested contributor.
<jumentous> ok, unfortunately need an iphone-esk icon launching interface
<persia> So you need something completely new?
<persia> (and this is mildly off-topic here: #ubuntu-mobile might be a better forum)
<jumentous> moved
<porthose> persia: to clarify, I need to sync coherence from debian, I have per package upload rights for coherence, should I get a MOTU ACK for the sync request, or can I subscribe the archive admins directly to the sync request?
<ajmitch> if you have upload rights for that, I'd subscribe ubuntu-archive
<porthose> ajmitch: thx
<persia> porthose, Just subscribe the archive-admins.  it's probably worth noting that you're a per-package-uploader, to avoid confusion the first time.
<ajmitch> they may only look at team membership when it comes to the syncs
<ajmitch> right, do as persia suggests :)
<persia> porthose, In more detail: you are an Ubuntu Developer, in every sense that is required to handle your packages.  No further authority is required.
<porthose> will do thx again :)
<porthose> Would a MOTU please unsubscribe u-u-s from Bug #396357 please.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 396357 in coherence "Sync coherence 0.6.4-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396357
<persia> porthose, unsubscribing now...
<porthose> persia: Cool, time for bed, night
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys, Should we always take Debian patches against Ubuntu ones?? For example, while merging, older Ubuntu provided a patch that in my opinion is a better patch that the newer Debian is providing (fewer code lines and keeping the structure of upstream source code). So in such cases, should we still take Debian patches?
<persia> RoAkSoAx, We take Debian patches unless we believe it to be worth the extra work of maintaining the variance.
<RoAkSoAx> persia, ok so be it. thanks :)
<persia> So, if you think the Ubuntu patch is enough better, and want to work on getting everyone (upstream, Debian, Ubuntu) back in sync over the longer term, there's no reason not to keep the Ubuntu patch.
<RoAkSoAx> persia, well for example, the patch is to change a function call from "hello(1+1,2+2,3+3)" to "hello_dude(a,b,c,d)". Ubuntu does it that way, Debian does it like: a = 1+1. b =2+2, c=3+3 and then -> "hello_dude(a,b,c,d)"
<persia> OK.  Do you care enough to make it better later?
<RoAkSoAx> persia, well I would since the main reason would be to keep things simple by having less lines of code...
<RoAkSoAx> or should I just report it back to upstream and wait till the better fix gets to Debian
<persia> And be responsible for merging the difference in the meantime.
<persia> I'd also suggest engaging the Debian maintainer.  Maybe there's a good reason to do it that way.
<RoAkSoAx> ok then, I'll contact Debian maintainer first and talk about that patch. Thanks for the help :)
<persia> Good luck.
<RoAkSoAx> thanks :)
<RoAkSoAx> well I'm off to sleep. see ya
<cpscotti> Ampelbein: Hi, have you seen that harpia got rejected by the archive admin? I think I corrected the issued.. could u check that?
<alkisg> Hi! I want to package some windows/flash based educational applications and put them into a repository. They contain multimedia files, so they're big, e.g. 100Mb.
<alkisg> To make them run correctly under Ubuntu, I'll have to change some of the files they contain, e.g. html encoding, ie-specific javascript...
<alkisg> My problem is: if my repository users install the edu app, and I later need to update it with a patch that only affects 1 html file, how can I do it without them downloading the whole 100Mb again?
<alkisg> Can I make a "original" package, which just puts all html and swf files to /usr/share/eduapp, and then make a "diff" package, which modifies them while inside /usr/share/eduapp, so that I can only update the diff package? Or is that a silly idea?
<persia> alkisg, I'd recommend splitting the stuff up into a bunch of smaller packages, where it would make sense to update them together.
<alkisg> persia: the problem is that I cannot logically split it. It's one big app with lots of multimedia files...
<persia> That's harder.  How about a program/data split?
<alkisg> They're html and swf files... I could split the .swf files, but they're in a directory hierarchy, so the two packages hierarchies would overlap :(
<alkisg> I.e. eduapp/lesson1/swf_files   and eduapp/lesson1/html_files
<alkisg> (then lesson2, lesson3 etc)
<alkisg> How do the langpacks work? I think there's a big one (-base?) and another one that gets modified more frequently?
 * persia isn't sure, and leaves this for someone with better advice
<alkisg> Thank you persia. I know, it's a difficult one :(
<alkisg> Yes, I think the language-pack-xx vs language-pack-xx-base is what I need. If someone can explain me how this works, I'd really appreciate it. :)
<dholbach> good morning
<alkisg> Let me rephrase my question, please: I need to split an educational application into 2 packages that will function in the same way as language-pack-xx-base (all files) and language-pack-xx (modified files). Where can I find info on this, i.e. how can 2 different .deb packages provide an overlapping set of files?
<persia> alkisg, You might just download some of the example packages, and play with dpkg --contents
<highvoltage> I uploaded my first package ever to REVU \o/
<highvoltage> persia: I'll get the lxde path on there next and ping you for review if that's ok?
<persia> highvoltage, Sure, but for best results, ping generally.  I'll notice if I'm about, and maybe someone else will respond sooner.
<alkisg> persia: See in http://pastebin.com/f3a2abd3e - the language-pack-en overrides for example pidgin.mo, which normally belongs to language-pack-en-base....
<alkisg> Can I just go ahead and do that? I.e. override files that belong to other packages? Or is there some mechanism I should aware of?
<alkisg> *overwrite, not override (my English sucks :()
<persia> overwriting doesn't work easily, without replacing, which should be approached with caution at best.
<persia> Generally, it's a bad idea.
<alkisg> I think the langpacks are a perfect example for me; that's exactly what I need. What do you mean by "replacing", is there some mechanism in apt that I can use to notify it that I replaced the file owner package?
<alkisg> *I mean, "the package that owns some file"..?
<persia> Replaces:
<alkisg> Isn't that for whole packages?
<persia> But use it with caution and care, and triple-read related policy.
<persia> Go read the policy.  It explains what it does,
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> when is the official release of Firefox 3.5 will be released in Ubuntu Hardy ?
<persia> kaushal, I don't know that there is an answer to that question.
<alkisg> I've read the "replaces" part of the policy, I don't think it does what I need... And I don't see "replaces" in language-pack-en :(
<persia> You might look for a backports bug, or similar.
<kaushal> persia: can you please point me to it
<micahg> kaushal: this is still being discussed by the mozilla team the best way to do this
<persia> kaushal, bugs.launchpad.net/hardy-backports
<micahg> normally new packages are not added to old released
<alkisg> persia: thanks for your time :)
<kaushal> micahg: is there a irc channel for ubuntu mozilla ?
<micahg> #ubuntu-mozillateam
<kaushal> micahg: Thanks
<micahg> kaushal: you're best shot of getting an answer is probably after noon UTC
<micahg> *your
<alkisg> persia: and *sorry*, I was wrong, "replaces" was what I needed, I remembered wrong.
<persia> alkisg, That's two readings of policy.  Once more, and I think you'll be likely to be safe :)  I still think it's dangerous, and should be avoided, if possible.
<gaspa> geser: I note just now that you miss dholbach in your relpy
<dholbach> gaspa: just send it to me too
<gaspa> yup
<gaspa> wgrant: how many times a day did the ftbfs script on ubuntuwire run? (build_status.py, to be clearer...)
<dholbach> gaspa: replied too
<\sh> moins
<wgrant> gaspa: Every 6 hours.
<gaspa> wgrant: ok, thanks.
<wgrant> gaspa: The interval was chosen arbitrarily.
<geser> wgrant: I've a patch from gaspa to also display the uploader (or maintainer) for the FTBFS but it increase the run time to 20 min. Do you think it's usefull enough to warrant it?
<wgrant> geser: eeh, hard to say.
<wgrant> I need to work out why it takes so long.
<wgrant> The latency between the hosts is just a few milliseconds.
<geser> wgrant: the SSPH has no uploader attribute currently so it need to fetch the changes file and parse it
<geser> s/SSPH/SPPH/
<wgrant> geser: Yep. Maybe we can convince them to expose ISPR.
<wgrant> That has lots of useful info.
<geser> wgrant: bug 372704
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 372704 in soyuz "expose Signed-by and Changed-by via API" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/372704
<wgrant> geser: Thanks.
<gaspa> wgrant, geser: it takes 20min from my home... if the latency in ubuntuwire is minor, perhaps, that time will be shorter...
<wgrant> gaspa: I've discussed it with a Soyuz developer, and the information might be appearing in attributes on the SPPH in a few days.
<gaspa>  \o/
<gaspa> geser: so, for maintainer it's better wait some time....
<gaspa> can .csv instead be merged?
<geser> gaspa: sure, will try to get it done today
<slytherin> geser: I followed your advice. Check the latest doxia upload and you will know how much work I needed to do to make it build in Ubuntu. :-)
<geser> slytherin: I've already seen that you got doxia-sitetools build. I can check now if I manage to bootstrap maven-debian-helper
<rawang> gaspa, hi
<rawang> gaspa, i have done what you suggested in strongwind, please take a look if you have time :)
<slytherin> geser: nope. that will need some more work IIRC. You will need to rebuild maven-reporting-impl and then fix maven-plugin-tools to not build depend upon itself.
<geser> more bootstrapping :(
 * geser wishes Debian would also do source-only uploads
<slytherin> geser: maven-reporting-impl is DEPWAIT on libdoxia-sitetools-java. See if you can get any archive admin to give us preferential treatment and clear libdoxia-sitetools-java from new queue.
<slytherin> geser: One of the classic cases is package openbios-ppc. The rules file exits when architecture is non powerpc, but the package is arch:all. :-)
<gaspa> dholbach: where is it better to put ftbfs.csv ? clues, oppurtunities or both?
<dholbach> gaspa: just opportunities - I'll drop the clues thing in the new harvest version
<gaspa> yo
<gaspa> :)
<dholbach> it wasn't really useful the way it was and it needs some rethinking
<gaspa> dholbach: I just requested a merge for harvest-data...
<dholbach> super
<dholbach> will take a look later on
<billybigrigger> hey all
<billybigrigger> what is the best way to go about requestings a package upgrade?
<Ampelbein> billybigrigger: you could ask the previous uploader or file a bug on that package requesting the update
<billybigrigger> k
<Laney> or ask the debian maintainer
<Laney> or do it yourself
<Laney> lots of options!
<billybigrigger> how do i find the maintainer?
<billybigrigger> i don't want to go stepping on toes either
<billybigrigger> so ill let someone else do it
<Ampelbein> billybigrigger: what package is it anyway?
<slytherin> hyperair: are you involved in packaging of remuco?
<billybigrigger> vlc
<billybigrigger> Candidate: 1.0.0~rc2-1ubuntu1
<billybigrigger> 1.0.0 was released
<slytherin> billybigrigger: it was released just today. So you can expect it to get updated in karmic within a week or two.
<billybigrigger> nice
<billybigrigger> is there a need to file a bug for upgrade then?
<Ampelbein> billybigrigger: bug 396548 and debian bug 536081
<billybigrigger> im sure the maintainer is on top of it eh?
<billybigrigger> ahh cool
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 396548 in vlc "Please update to the latest upstream release 1.0.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396548
<ubottu> Debian bug 536081 in vlc "vlc: new upstream release (1.0.0)" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/536081
<siretart`> billybigrigger: don't worry about vlc. the package is maintained in debian by xtophe, who happens to be part of vlc upstream
<siretart`> billybigrigger: I expect he will update the package soon
<billybigrigger> ahh ok
<slytherin> billybigrigger: if you are looking for update in jaunty then that is a different story. It will have to go in -backports.
<billybigrigger> nope
<billybigrigger> karmic
<bddebian> Heya gang
<AnAnt> bddebian: Hello !
<bddebian> Hi and
<bddebian> Err AnAnt
<dupondje> :( long queue to build packages @ ppa :( :P
<geser> only 20 packages, that's not a long queue
<geser> a long queue was during the archive rebuild in PPA with a queue length > 12000
<dholbach> anybody wants to give a session about merging at 09th July, 12:00 UTC?
<dholbach> just demonstrating a simple merge in a bit more detail :-)
<dholbach> any other topic is fine too
<dholbach> ajmitch: how about a PHP packaging session?
<dholbach> at UDW and/or 09th July, 12:00 UTC?
<ajmitch> midnight for me
<dholbach> you could add a ghost story!
<dholbach> ;-)
 * ajmitch really shouldn't be up right now :)
<nhandler> james_w: Thanks for volunteering for the July 9th slot. I'll update the Fridge. Do you want to update the -classroom topic and the Next Packaging Training Session wiki page?
<james_w> nhandler: man you are quick :-)
<james_w> I was just going to ask you about the Fridge
<james_w> I've done the wiki
 * nhandler subscribes to lots of wiki pages
<james_w> I can't op in -classroom
<nhandler> james_w: You should be able to OP through chanserv
<nhandler> I OPed you james_w
<nhandler> And can you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Headers/NextPackagingTraining ?
<\sh> hmm...python experts...optparser and options only available when another option is set..possible?
<ramvi> I'm trying to package Ubiquity, but I'm getting No package 'glib-2.0' found. No package 'gtk+-2.0' found, even though I have apt-get build-dep, install libgtk+-2.0-dev libglib-2.0-dev build-essential . How come?
<slytherin> is update-maintainer script going to be updated in jaunty?
<debfx> Adri2000: are you still interested in packaging blobby volley 2?
<Adri2000> debfx: why not. some work was done in debian with a debian developer, so it might be a good idea to try to contact him
<Adri2000> and someone renamed the rfp to itp, so I'd suggest asking him what progress is he making
<debfx> Adri2000: I contacted him some time ago, basically he said he isn't interested in packaging it anymore
<Adri2000> ok
<Adri2000> on the upstream side, do you have any information? I see the website is dead
<debfx> Adri2000: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=408439 has been renamed from itp to rfp
<ubottu> Debian bug 408439 in wnpp "ITP: blobby -- volleyball game with blobs" [Wishlist,Open]
<Adri2000> right, sorry, I need to read more carefully :)
<debfx> recently there has been some activity on svn
<slytherin> geser: there?
<c_korn> do all applications written in python go to the python section in debian/control? or only python libs?
<POX> libs only
<nailora> ooo-thumbnailer is a upcoming package to produce thumbnails of office files (as it is the case with pdf files already). can one of you have a look at the following build log and tell my why it fails
<nailora> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ooo-thumbnailer/0.1~alpha2-1/+build/998231
<slytherin> nailora: is this error enough for you - dh_builddeb -pooo-thumbnailer  Found files in /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages (must be in dist-packages for python2.6).
<nailora> no and yes :) -- i am no python developer/packager myself so i would never have found this message nor do i know how to fix it. but i am developer enough to see that this is a statement i can forward to someone. i do poke people and mediate :) thanks!
<slytherin> nailora: I found the error in build log. Looks like you weren't looking hard enough or not at the right place.
<slytherin> :-)
<nailora> i did look in the build log, but this error was not obvious enough for me, see my last message
<therm> hello everybody, anyone out there likes reviewing my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/swtcalendar
<therm> It has been reviewed one time
<therm> I fixed all I could
<slytherin> therm: I am doing it right now.
<geser> slytherin: yes
<therm> slytherin: thanks
<slytherin> geser: Was there any discussion about not having jre dependency in java library packages? Or did that happen in Debian Java ML.
<geser> slytherin: I don't remember reading anything about it (at least on the lists I follow)
<slytherin> then it was probably on Debian Java ML.
<highvoltage> 22:03 < nlt_> err
<highvoltage> 22:03 < nlt_> highvoltage:
<highvoltage> 22:03 < nlt_> I clicked that link
<highvoltage> 22:03 < nlt_> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com
<highvoltage> 22:03 < nlt_> and I'm logged in as jonathan
<highvoltage> 22:04 < nlt_> under preferences it says "Preferred email address:  jonathan@ubuntu.com  "
<highvoltage> ^^^ that's another jonathan from my local LUG
<highvoltage> he doesn't have my revu username and password. and that is my e-mail address.
<highvoltage> persia, nhandler, jpds, nixternal ^^^
<dupondje> 11h buildwait on ppa's :P
<dupondje> :(
<geser> wow, >100 packages in the PPA build queues, it has increased nicely in the past few hours
<dupondje> btw, a small question. Isn't it possible to reupload the same version to your ppa when you deleted the old package. For example when the first try was a disaster ? :P
<slytherin> asac: is xulrunner-1.9.1 surely going to replace xulrunner-1.9? If yes, I will migrate swt-gtk when doing merge from debian.
<slytherin> dupondje: how hard is it to bump version? :-)
<dupondje> slytherin: not hard :) but its not eshetic to have to high version numbers :P:P
<ajmitch> highvoltage: that's a little odd - the normal way of logging into REVU is by using openid provided by launchpad
<slytherin> can any of the revu admins nuke http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/libswtcalendar the package has been uploaded with changed source name.
<highvoltage> ajmitch: quite odd indeed
<ajmitch> slytherin: ok
<slytherin> therm: added comments. If you fix them and package builds fine in pbuilder then you have my vote.
<ajmitch> alefteris: archived it for now
<slytherin> ajmitch: I guess that message was for me.
<ajmitch> slytherin: yes, I mistyped, didn't see
 * ajmitch falling asleep :)
<therm> slytherin: thank you
<slytherin> therm: welcome
<dupondje> damn we need more ppa buildboxes :P
<geser> dupondje: it varies how many PPA buildds are available but I don't know under which conditions
<slytherin> damn we need more build servers. :-)
<dupondje> 109 build waiting for aamd64 :)
<dupondje> alot !
<geser> >10000 is a lot (archive test build)
<slytherin> geser: libplexus-utils merged from debian and maven-filtering is no more FTBFS. Once maven-filtering is out of new queue it will clear at least one DEPWAIT (maven-resources-plugin)
<geser> woohu
<slytherin> geser: if doxia-sitetools is cleared form NEW within next 24 hours and you happen to be free then, can you please try rebuild (version build1) of maven-reporting-impl.
<dupondje> looks like mozilla team pushed a ton of builds :P
<geser> slytherin: sure
<slytherin> got to go to sleep now. :-)
<gnomefreak> we did?
<gnomefreak> hoping SM update was pushed for me but other than that and daily builds not sure what else we pushed
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/dutch/+bug/307667 <- how do I get this patch released ? The debian maintainer seems sleeping :(
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 307667 in dutch "Spelling checker does nothing because nl_BE spelling is missing or isn't configured by default" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<jpds> highvoltage: Erm, bizarre.
<ajmitch> looks like we're down a member on motu-release, that's unfortunate
<Laney> volunteering?
<ajmitch> that position requires ability & skill :)
<geser> ajmitch: and you miss both?
 * ajmitch certainly isn't planning to volunteer for the CC roles that are being discussed in -meeting at the moment
<ajmitch> geser: at this hour of the morning I certainly do
 * ajmitch regrets getting out of bed for an earlier meeting on irc
<pace_t_zulu> hey guys i've got someone asking me about VLC 1.0 ... can anyone fill me in on the story?
<Ampelbein> cody-somerville: there? I have a question regarding SRU for bug 178228, it's two small fixes, debian bug 496863 and debian bug 516064 . Do you think it's "worth" a SRU? The game is not widely used but the fixes are small and safe.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 178228 in zangband "zangband fails to start due to RNG 64-bit bug" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/178228
<ubottu> Debian bug 496863 in zangband "zangband: RNG broken on AMD64" [Important,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/496863
<ubottu> Debian bug 516064 in zangband "Re: micro-fix for zangband-data" [Normal,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/516064
<gaspa> Laney: do you intend to merge ghc6 ? seems it closes a LP bug....
<ajmitch> dholbach: so are you planning to take over the ITP for php-validate? I see it's been almost 2 years since originally filed with no response from the original person
<dholbach> ajmitch: I can't maintain it in Debian very well
<Laney> gaspa: yeah, I passed that to kaol
<ajmitch> dholbach: ah ok, which is why you'd prefer the team to take it
<gaspa> does it require extra rebuilds?
<gaspa> imho no, but just to be sure...
<Laney> no
<dholbach> ajmitch: yes, I did the packaging already
<Laney> i'll sponsor it if you want to do it now
<Laney> gaspa: ^
<ajmitch> dholbach: yep, saw that :)
<gaspa> Laney: uh, what? ghc merge, you mean?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> otherwise i'll do it later in the week
<gaspa> oh, yes... let's try....
<Laney> the delta is very small
<gaspa> i'll take a chance, as I'm waiting for hours some ppa builds :P
<ajmitch> dholbach: I'll take a look & see if I can get it into sid then
<gaspa> Laney: I don't need sponsorship, but I'll ask you a review, given the package...
<Laney> ohyou're motu?
<dholbach> ajmitch: fantastico - if you could talk to the team, that'd be great
<gaspa> Laney: yep ;) from just a couple of week...
<dholbach> I wouldn't like to be in the Maintainer field and not properly being able to maintain it there :)
<Laney> gaspa: SWEET!
<gaspa> :)
<ajmitch> dholbach: it's something that could be useful in replacing some inhouse validation code I use :)
<dholbach> hehe
<dholbach> ajmitch: wait until I have all the other modules in place
<dholbach> so you can upload like 30 modules at once :-)
<ajmitch> dholbach: I need to find out if there's some useful way to switch between git & bzr for packaging branches
<dholbach> bzr-git!
<ajmitch> if it's two-way enough
<dholbach> there's push for it
<ajmitch> yeah, I've talked to thumper a bit about it :)
<gaspa> Laney: it's really simple, seems... if you don't mind, I'll make a test build and upload asap.
<dholbach> ok my friends, I call it a day
<Laney> gaspa: told you! go nuts
<Laney> night dholbach
<ajmitch> night dholbach
<dupondje> 202 packages pending for i386 @ PPA builds
<dupondje> :'(
<dupondje> this is crazy
<ajmitch> looks like i need to track down james_w about bzr & git wrt packaging
<james_w> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> hello
 * ajmitch just had some questions about managing packages that live in git for debian while being able to use the packaging branches with bzr
<james_w> ajmitch: have you tried the LP git imports?
<ajmitch> james_w: not as yet, should I need to import packaging branches from debian?
<james_w> you don't have to
<james_w> it would just allow you to use bzr to work with their git branches
<ajmitch> round-trip, or only for pulling changes from git at this stage?
<ajmitch> I want to work on them in debian but ubuntu needs to carry some changes, so I'd like to try & work properly with how things should be done
 * kb9vqf wonders why so many PPA builders are down today...the queue is a mile long
<Laney> ajmitch: can't you just have an ubuntu branch in git?
<Laney> or would you like all ubuntu developers to be able to commit?
<ajmitch> Laney: I could, but there's to be at least a team PPA for this (PHP packages, btw)
<Laney> git-buildpackage --git-debian-branch works
<james_w> yay RainCT :-)
<james_w> Laney: what does --git-debian-branch do?
<ajmitch> since everything's to be imported into bzr branches, it'd be 'nice' to be able to pass changes back & forth
 * ajmitch wonders what he missed about RainCT 
<james_w> ajmitch: you can't fully round trip yet
 * RainCT too
<Laney> james_w: It specifies which branch has debian/
<james_w> zeitgeist
<RainCT> james_w: ah, zeitgeist :)
<james_w> Laney: ah
<ajmitch> james_w: ok, that's mostly what I was looking to find out :)
<Laney> so you'd have master for the debian packaging and ubuntu for the ubuntu packaging
<ajmitch> and how the imported bzr branches would work for this
<ajmitch> especially in the cases where the debian package has Vcs-*
<james_w> ajmitch: you can "dpush" which is write to git, but not round trip properly (it rebases bzr on top of the resulting git)
<james_w> or you can diff | patch
<ajmitch> rebase, that sounds evil :)
<james_w> one day there will be "bzr send --format=git" as well
<RainCT> james_w: have you tried it out?
<james_w> nope, not yet
<cpscotti> warp10, Ampelbein : The harpia package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ) got rejected by the archive-admins due to some dependencies "verbosity". I fixed those and some other minor debian/control issue and re-uploaded the package, can u take a look? PS: the archive-admin comments are posted on the revu page. Thanks in advance
#ubuntu-motu 2009-07-08
<ajmitch> cpscotti: you're still depending on things like libv6-dev & gcc - surely they aren't required to run the package, but only to build it?
<cpscotti> the harpia package is a c source code generator
<cpscotti> ajmitch: and it builds it on runtime
<ajmitch> how evil :)
<cpscotti> yep
<cpscotti> you go on connecting blocks (like in simulink... in a flowchart manner) and it generates the code.. compiles.. and runs
<cpscotti> =]
<ajmitch> interesting
<cpscotti> u can use your webcam as an input (or any pic, any video file) and apply many computer Vision/image processing algorithms on it and see the results in real-time
<binarymutant> does Empathy use Mono? Just curious not trolling fyi
<Ampelbein> binarymutant: no, it does not.
<binarymutant> ty Amaranth :)
<Ampelbein> Ampelbein. it's Ampelbein. ;-)
<binarymutant> ah yes sorry
<binarymutant> the tabs always get me :(
<Ampelbein> i know that problem.
<Ampelbein> binarymutant: no need to be sorry, btw. I was joking.
 * masterkernel is away: Away
<dcraven> So I'm making a new package for Karmic, and I need to include a patch (I'm using quilt). I assume I need to include the change that the patch makes in the changelog file. So I just mention it like any other change or does it have to refer to the patch somehow?
<nhandler> masterkernel: Could you please disable that away script?
<nhandler> dcraven: Just mention it like any other change. You should also include a patch header
<dcraven> Patch header eh?
 * dcraven goes to look that up.
<dcraven> Thanks for the advice nhandler.
<vorian> patch headers for the win
<nhandler> dcraven: It is just a comment at the top of the patch file explaining what the patch does, linking to the upstream bug (You did send the patch upstream, right ;) ), etc.
<dcraven> Oh. I can just edit the diff stick a comment up there. Good idea.
<vorian> dcraven: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PatchTaggingGuidelines
<dcraven> Thanks guys.
<dcraven> Ugh.. lintian want's me to make a manpage for this bloody package :/
<RAOF> Yup.  It'll do that.
<persia> dcraven, help2man can help with that, if it has --help.
<dcraven> persia: Nice tip. I'll cross my fingers that this has --help. :)
<persia> THe page would still benefit from manual editing, but it gives a decent starting framework.
<dcraven> persia: Cool.
<dcraven> So does the manpage need to be added with a patch or can I just stick it in the package? And yes I'll send it upstream :)
<nhandler> dcraven: Just put it in the debian directory, no patch needed
<persia> Well, that's kinda a patch, but it's certainly easier that way.
<dcraven> In the debian dir. Good call.
<nhandler> persia: True, but he doesn't need to use something like quilt to add it
<persia> Right.
<nellery> is pull-debian-source failing for anyone else with the latest version of ubuntu-dev-tools (0.75)?
<ajmitch> nellery: failing on what way?
<ajmitch> lots of perl errors?
<nellery> ajmitch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/212377/
<nhandler> nellery: Let me check on that
<ajmitch> nellery: same as what I get, but I suspect that's a debian problem
<ajmitch> http://qa.debian.org/madison.php?package=php5&a=&b=&c=&s= is showing postgres errors
<nellery> I know there was a new version released today
<nellery> ah
 * ajmitch is getting the same errors with 0.74
<coolbhavi> hello team if nobody has any objections I ll prepare diffs for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/391165
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 391165 in dpkg "Dpkg::Deps mishandles newlines in Build-Dependencies" [Undecided,Fix released]
<geofft> wait, isn't that bug fixed?
<ScottK> coolbhavi: Also dpkg is in Main, so #ubuntu-devel is a better place to discuss.
<coolbhavi> geofft, I mean packages affected by that bug
<geofft> oh, okay
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys, what can ccause this kind of build errors: Makefile:262: .deps/main.Po: No such file or directory
<RoAkSoAx> the ones related to .deps ?
<dholbach> good morning
<\sh> moins
<siretart`> morning motu!
<\sh> hey siretart`
<ajmitch> hey siretart`, \sh
<siretart`> hey \sh, hi ajmitch!
<siretart`> what do you think about bug #374900 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374900 in faac "Libfaac not LGPL" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374900
<\sh> siretart`: I'm in NBG tomorrow...I don't know if I'm staying overnight ... when it's possible we could catch up for a beer :)
<siretart`> \sh: wow, sounds great! :-)
<siretart`> \sh: do you still have my mobile number?
<\sh> siretart`: yepp :)
<\sh> siretart`: I'll call you :)
<StevenK> RAOF: Around?
<\sh> siretart`: your bug doesn't sound good...
<siretart`> strictly speaking, the package seems pretty unredistributable to me
<siretart`> but before proposing to pull out that package, I wanted to hear opinions
<\sh> siretart`: reading the sentence: ISO/IEC gives
<\sh> users of the MPEG-2 NBC/MPEG-4 Audio standards free license to this
<\sh> software module or modifications thereof for use in hardware or
<\sh> software products claiming conformance to the MPEG-2 NBC/ MPEG-4 Audio
<\sh> standards.
<persia> Does that mean we just have to claim conformance somewhere to suddenly have a license?
<siretart`> wtf is a 'free license'?
<soren> Strictly speaking, it doesn't say "a free license", but just "free license".
<persia> I think it's a verb.
<soren> Which one?
<soren> And how so? :)
<siretart`> the package is in pretty miserable shape anyway. it claims GPL, whereas there are several licenses in the package, including LGPL and MPL.
<RAOF> StevenK: Yeah, am now.
<dstansby> Hi guys, just wondering if anyone could help me with a small problem I'm having.
<dstansby> I'm trying to build a package using dkpg -S, and I'm getting the following error message:
<dstansby> 'You must specify a valid ANT_HOME directory!'
<persia> dstansby, Building Java source packages usually requires all the build-depends to be installed.
<dstansby> Thanks, I'll isntall all the build deps and see what happens then
<dstansby> Is there a command that I can use to automatically isntall all of the build-deps of a package?
<fabrice_sp> dstansby, sudo apt-get build-dep <package>
<dstansby> fabrice_sp: Thanks :)
<fabrice_sp> ;-)
<dupondje> 381 builds on i386 for PPA :) lol its crazy
<fabrice_sp> geser, do you plan to work on the merge of magicor?
<fabrice_sp> fyi, I've sent the differences to Debian
<geser> fabrice_sp: the magicor changes look pretty ubuntu specific to me because of our changes to cdbs
<geser> fabrice_sp: it looks like al-maisan started to work on a merge as he has a merged package in his PPA
<fabrice_sp> geser, ok. I'll ping him if Debian accept the changes (the change is not harmful in Debian)
<fabrice_sp> and look after another merge :-)
<dholbach> directhex: are you up for repeating your packaging sesssion at UDW?
<dholbach> maybe with the Debian gang again? :)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
<ajmitch> oh what a shame, most of the slots are filled up already on there :)
<directhex> dholbach, yeah, probably
<directhex> also, Laney for CC!
<Laney> for what now
<dholbach> directhex: great - could you get in touch with the people with whom you'd like to hold the session? I'm trying to round up speakers :)
 * Laney wills Banshee to stay alive long enough to get tunes onto his phone
<directhex> Laney, http://daniel.holba.ch/blog/?p=443 !
<Laney> hah
<Laney> I think not
<Laney> jpds for CC!
<directhex> how about nyu, then?
<jpds> Laney: Haha, that would be interesting.
<lamothe> I just asked a user to enable apport for Jaunty so he can send me the details for a segfault that I can't replicate.  Have I done the wrong thing?  I was doing some reading which suggested that enabling apport for a stable release is not really a good thing to do.
<lamothe> I assume that it's just the submission to LP that's the issue.
<ScottK> lamothe: No.  It's a fine thing to do for trouble shooting.  We just don't want piles of duplicates in LP.  Even submission of a small number of bugs is fine particularly if you are going to triage them.
<lamothe> dholbach: Thanks for uploading Me TV to Karmic.
<lamothe> ScottK: For sure I will be dealing with it.  Thanks for the response.
<dholbach> lamothe: no worries
<ogra> siretart, ping
<cypherbios> Hey guys. There is a bug report on Launchpad regarding an issue with the package "aptoncd" (LP 272509). This bug was already been fixed upstream, but was never updated on the Ubuntu package (I am one of the upstream guys).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272509 in aptoncd "APTonCD crashes" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272509
<cypherbios> Would be great if some MOTU packaged it for Karmic, and hopefully for intrepid too
<cypherbios> This bug is considered critical and lots of users are complaining about it
<cypherbios> If someone can lend me a hand, I will be around
<fabrice_sp> cypherbios, you can submit yourself submit an update to the package
<Laney> what happened to Rafael?
<Laney> wait, that's you!
<Laney> why is it so dead in Debian?
<cypherbios> fabrice_sp: I would like someone more experienced and skilled to do that instead of me
<cypherbios> fabrice_sp: there is a lot of packaging rules that have been updated since the last package I made and I haven't been able to keep up with
<Laney> cypherbios: why didn't you orphan it?
<cypherbios> Laney: because I have been almost dead (virtually, for personal reasons) for the last few months
<Laney> ok
<Laney> well if you don't intend to maintain it any more then that's what you should do
<cypherbios> Laney: could you point me of how to do that?
<Laney> reportbug -B debian wnpp
<Laney> follow the screens
<cypherbios> Laney: thank you. I will do that
<fabrice_sp> cypherbios, I don't see any new release. Is it just a patch to apply to the package?
<fabrice_sp> I'm looking at https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptoncd/files/
<cypherbios> fabrice_sp: the upstream project is hosted at launchpad and there is no public release besides the direct packaging from the bzr repo
<fabrice_sp> oh
<fabrice_sp> ok
<cypherbios> fabrice_sp: here it is http://lauchpad.net/aptoncd
<cypherbios> fabrice_sp: there is a lot of web presence that must be changed regarding this project (remove the sf.net project page, redirect to launchpad, etc...)
<cypherbios> fabrice_sp: I gotta go. If you are to do something about the package and need anything, please just let me know
<fabrice_sp> cypherbios, ok: I'll have a look
<cypherbios> thank you. I really appreciate that
<alkisg> I heard something here the other day, and I was wondering... if I put (LP: #396567) to a line in my changelog, will publishing the .deb to my ppa automatically close the bug in launchpad?
<persia> alkisg, It isn't supposed to do that, and I think it doesn't anymore, although it once did.
<alkisg> Thank you persia :)
<persia> You might try it, but do so with a bug you know you're fixing, and watching, and if it does, unclose it until the fix can go from your PPA into the repo.
<alkisg> Ah, the PPA is the official repo for this, so I don't really mind if it closes it!
<gaspa> who should I bother to be added as a reviewer in revu?
<persia> alkisg, If It's a bug against Ubuntu, I care if it closes it, because then the bug status of the Ubuntu task is incorrect, and nobody is going to put effort into pushing the fix into Ubuntu.
<ScottK> Bug 396567
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 396567 in sch-scripts "ÏÎ¿ ltsp Î´Îµ Î´Î¿ÏÎ»ÎµÏÎµÎ¹ Î¼ÎµÏÎ¬ ÏÎ·Î½ ÎµÎºÎ³Î±ÏÎ¬ÏÏÎ±ÏÎ· bind/squid" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396567
<persia> gaspa, Me.
<alkisg> persia: yeah, I got it; but it's for an app of my own, hosted only on my ppa, so it's not a problem either way...
<persia> alkisg, So, there's no Ubuntu task on the bug?
<gaspa> persia: cool, can you please add me? :P
<persia> gaspa, Yes.
<gaspa> :)
<alkisg> persia: no; it's just a bug against my scripts, e.g.: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sch-scripts/+bug/396567
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 396567 in sch-scripts "ÏÎ¿ ltsp Î´Îµ Î´Î¿ÏÎ»ÎµÏÎµÎ¹ Î¼ÎµÏÎ¬ ÏÎ·Î½ ÎµÎºÎ³Î±ÏÎ¬ÏÏÎ±ÏÎ· bind/squid" [Low,Confirmed]
<gaspa> bothered.
<persia> alkisg, I'm not sure that would close then.  I don't think there is any upload-closes-bug for anything other than an Ubuntu task, although you could ask in #launchpad
<persia> gaspa, done
<gaspa> thanks a lot, persia
<alkisg> persia: ok, I just uploaded the bug-closing version, I'll just watch it for some time to see if it automatically closes... if not, I'll close it myself, np... Thanks!
<\sh> wow...google chrome os
<persia> Just another thin client, no?
<\sh> should run on arm and x86...linux kernel as base and a new windowing system
<\sh> applications should run on this basement as web apps
<\sh> no android stuff as they say
<persia> I wonder if it's the same sort of stripped linux that was Android, or if it's full linux, with some directfb/chrome fast-loading interface overlay.  I suppose we'll see in time.
<\sh> first appliances should hit the market in the second half of 2010 ... if it's true what heise wrote
<siretart> ogra: pong?
<ogra> siretart, does the ubuntu-burning team plan to update the cdrecord packages in the ppa for newer releases than intrepid ?
<ogra> there is a heated discussion (including joerg) going on on the ubuntu-users ML
<siretart> ogra: I'm on the leave, I'll checkout ubuntu-users
<azeem> oh my
<siretart> ogra: if you find someone to do the upload, sure.
<ogra> i think there would be some interest of some people to have the upstream version packaged
 * ogra doesnt want to get his hands dirty or be anyhow connected to joerg, else i would :)
<siretart> mh, that'd be too late for me
<ogra> ... just to have silence again on the ML
<siretart> ogra: I'm on the leave, I'll query you tonight or tomorrow and give you a status update on the matter, ok?
<ogra> take your time, not urgent to me ... just wanted to know if there are any plans
<ogra> or if it was completely dead
<siretart> my status: blocked on joerg
<siretart> anyway, cu later!
<ogra> siretart, thanks
<sn9> debfx: are you gonna put vbox3 in jaunty, too?
<debfx> sn9: I can try to get it into jaunty-backports
<sn9> debfx: it's not even in your ppa
<debfx> sn9: usually I'm waiting until it's uploaded to karmic
<therm> hello everbody
<sn9> why?
<therm> has anyone a tip how to get my package into my pbuilder-chroot?
<debfx> sn9: as I'm not a motu, Daniel reviews the package and sometime does additional changes
<sn9> ah
<sn9> you don't trust yourself with your own ppa; understandable
<debfx> :)
<debfx> mainly it saves me from uploaded the packages twice
<sn9> also understandable
<debfx> therm: your package isn't in a repository?
<therm> debfx: No it is on Revu, and I was asked to test if it builds with pbuilder
<debfx> therm: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<sn9> i thought pbuilder was used for the ppa's
<debfx> basically first you need to create the pbuilder chroot: sudo pbuilder create --distribution karmic --override-config
<debfx> and then build the package with: sudo pbuilder --build --distribution karmic x.dsc
<therm> debfx: ahh ok
<therm> debfx: thanks
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys, I'm packaging an APP, and when debuilding it, it shows me this: Makefile:262: .deps/main.Po: No such file or directory
<RoAkSoAx> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `.deps/main.Po'.  Stop.
<RoAkSoAx> When compiling it, that warning is not showed since all the files under .deps/ are created
<RoAkSoAx> but they are not when packaging it, anyone know what could be wrong?
<therm> debfx: pbuilder is now moaning about that the depending packages are not installed...how to install them?
<therm> debfx: something like
<therm> debfx: pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy depends on debhelper (>= 5); however:  Package debhelper is not installed.
<debfx> therm: it should automatically install the required packages after printing those messages
<therm> debfx: The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<therm>   pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libswt-gtk-3.4-java which is a virtual package.
<therm> The following actions will resolve these dependencies:Remove the following packages:pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy
<therm> debfx: and later on Current status: 0 broken [-1].
<therm> Aptitude couldn't satisfy the build dependencies
<therm> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
<therm> debfx: any idea?
<therm> debfx: may it has something to do that this is in universe
<therm> '?
<sn9> change your depends
<debfx> therm: not really sure, there seems to be a package conflict, can you post the whole output somewhere (pastebin ...)
<therm> debfx: http://pastebin.com/d4eb2751a
<therm>  debfx: added an othermirror with karmic universe and now it loads some packages
<therm> debfx: maybe thats it
<therm> debfx: yeah that was it, it builds fine now
<debfx> great :)
<toabctl> net
<stas> hi guys, I got a problem, I'm trying to rebuild a package and I succeeded using dpkg-buildpackage
<stas> -sa
<stas> but when uploading to my ppa
<stas> it got refused cause I didn't use debuild -S
<stas> I'm trying to follow th docs on rebuilding the same package with debuild -S
<geser> which error message do you get emailed?
<stas> Upload rejected because it contains binary packages. Ensure you are using `debuild -S`, or an equivalent command, to generate only the source package before re-uploading. See https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA for more information.
<stas> geser: a
<stas> K
<stas> Iam I doing something wrong?
 * stas sorry for typos
<geser> you seem to be trying to upload both source and binary
<geser> build with debuild -S -sa or dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa to build only a source package and dput the _source.changes file
<stas> ok, let me try
<geser> if you already have the .orig.tar.gz uploaded once you can skip the -sa switch
<therm> someone out there who knows in wich package "org.osgi.core-1.2.0.jar" is in?
<therm> could find this
<therm> not
<Pici> therm: Have you looked on packages.ubuntu.com? or with apt-file?
<therm> Pici: I looked with apt-file but could not find this, I hoped that someone knows this, I may has a different name and so I dont find it
<therm> it
<therm> it is for h2(java database)
<stas> geser: thank you, it seems to work
<stas> last question, I'm rebuilding packages for nexenta where I need to upload also the debs
<stas> in my ppa the build job is done by soyuz?
<stas> so I don't have to upload the builds?
<azeem> stas: right
<stas> I see. smart move :)
<stas> thank you guys
<geser> stas: the buildd takes your source upload, builds it and puts the debs in your PPA
<stas> :)
<RoAkSoAx> heya guys, do you now by any chance which packages provides this : GTK+ 2.10.0 or later, GNOME Desktop 2.16.0 or later, GStreamer 0.10.0 or later  ?
<geser> for build dependencies?
<slytherin> RoAkSoAx: libgtk*-dev, libgnome*-dev, libgstreamer*-dev.
<RoAkSoAx> geser, for Depends
<sn9> there should be a script to autodetect dependencies
<RoAkSoAx> slytherin, thanks, though I need for Depends rather than Build-Depends :)
<slytherin> RoAkSoAx: you don't need to add dependencies manually, use ${shlibs:Depends} (please check variable spelling for correctness)
<RoAkSoAx> slytherin, ok then :)
<RoAkSoAx> thans
<geser> they should be detected by dh_shlibdeps, you usually don't put them yourself in Depends
<RoAkSoAx> thanks*
<RoAkSoAx> ok thanks geser :)
<RoAkSoAx> One more question. When the tarball comes in .tar.bz, should I unpack it, create a .tar.gz and on debian/rules add get-orig-source right?
<therm> I do have here a built.xml wich is download jar-file from an webserver, what is recommendet to do with this?
<therm> arghh my english^^
<geser> check if the jar it needs are already packaged, package them if necessary and use them during the build (the buildd don't have net access anyways)
<therm> geser: there are 4 libs wich are downloaded, 3 of them are in repos, 1=org.osgi.core-1.2.0.jar I didnt know. But how to disable this if the compile statement requires the donwload statement?
<slytherin> RoAkSoAx: check manpage of uscan. You will probably simply need to add 'uscan --verbose --repack' to get-orig-source
<slytherin> therm: I believe it (osgi) is one of the eclipse components. You can patch build.xml such that compile does not have dependency on download. But I am not sure if your build will work in that case.
<therm> slytherin: Ok, will do this, wasnt sure if this is allright. Osgi has something to do with eclipse...I wanted to probe if eclipse-common-nls has it
<therm> slytherin: but then the download section came
<RoAkSoAx> ok thanks slytherin  :)
<directhex> slytherin, --repack doesn't produce deterministic gzips
<slytherin> directhex: what do you mean?
<directhex> slytherin, run it three times, get three different md5sums on orig
<directhex> slytherin, --repack is why we have fakesyncs
<slytherin> oh, that. But isn't that because the timestamp of gz file gets changed?
<debfx> how do you call quilt when using override_dh_... style rules?
<debfx> I know about dh --with-quilt but don't want to use it due to backportability
<Laney> we *could* fix --repack
<Ampelbein> nellery: hi there. apparently you uploaded isight-firmware-tools just when I commented on bug 393049. ;-) I think for such a change a ubuntu-diff is not necessary, in particular when the current debian package has a newer version and fixes the issue.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 393049 in isight-firmware-tools "Invalid end-of-line backslash in Build-Depends" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/393049
<Ampelbein> nellery: see http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/isight-firmware-tools.html, though it's not noted in the changelog,it's still fixed.
<nellery> Ampelbein: just saw that
<nellery> the maintainer didn't document it in the changelog, and I didn't see a bug filed for it
<nellery> I missed that
<Ampelbein> nellery: yeah, i was thinking about forwarding the change to debian and decided it would be better to first check the new package.
<nellery> either way I think it's worth requesting a sync for it
<Ampelbein> nellery: that's a good example for why we need every single change to be documented.
<nellery> Ampelbein: yep.. I saw another that that maintainer didn't document, but there was a bug filed for it.
<Ampelbein> nellery: do you want to request the sync or should I do it?
<nellery> Ampelbein: I can take care of it
<Ampelbein> nellery: ok, thanks.
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys where can I find which variables (info about them) handles directories in debian/rules: such as CURDIR, DEB_SOURCE_PACKAGE, etc
<chrisccoulson> RoAkSoAx - the debian policy manual can be useful. also check out http://cdbs-doc.duckcorp.org/en/cdbs-doc.xhtml
<chrisccoulson> CURDIR is exported by make though. it's specified in the manual for GNU make: http://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/make.html
<evanrmurphy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#CDBS%20with%20Simple%20Patchsys%20(Example%20Package:%20pmount) explains how to write a patch for package pmount with cdbs-edit-patch. But how do you apply the patch after it's written, just with "debian/rules patch"?
<RoAkSoAx> evanrmurphy, if you have added the includes, they it will be patched automatically
<evanrmurphy> thanks, RoAkSoAx :)
<RoAkSoAx> :)
<binarymutant> is elgibc replacing glibc in Karmic or the next release?
<pochu> binarymutant: do you mean eglibc?
<pochu> heh yeah
<binarymutant> ah yes :)
<pochu> I read elglibc :)
<pochu> no decission has been made TTBOMK
<pochu> I mean
<pochu> not in karmic for sure
<binarymutant> k, thanks pochu :)
<pochu> no decission has been made whether karmic+1 will switch to eglibc or will stay using glibc
<ScottK-desktop> It might be Karmic yet depending on how much difference there is.
<binarymutant> it's already in unstable that's why I ask
<binarymutant> but I didn't know if glibc is synced or is maintained differently like the kernel
<ScottK-desktop> We merge from Debian.
<ScottK-desktop> It's not like the kernel.
<binarymutant> ah ok
#ubuntu-motu 2009-07-09
<cpscotti> Hey everybody, could some motu review/advocate the harpia package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). It is a python app to generate computer-vision/image processing c code from block diagrams. It has alreade been uploaded to archive but got rejected due to some dependencies issues that were already fixed. Thanks a bunch!
<dholbach> good morning
<ajmitch> hi
<dholbach> hi ajmitch
 * ajmitch waves farewell to the laptop
 * hyperair has just written a one-liner, crude pull-revu-source script =\
<persia> hyperair, Um, why not just use dget?
<dholbach> persia: maybe it does something like      pull-revu-source indiana-jones-and-the-last-crusade
<persia> I generally like to read the comments anyway, but perhaps my URL dragging methods don't work for everyone.
<hyperair> persia: the script uses dget. the whole point is to pass it a package and dget the dsc without needing to launch a browser
 * kb9vqf says a few nasty things to his laptop
<gaspa> geser: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/372704 \o/
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 372704 in soyuz "expose Signed-by and Changed-by via API" [High,Fix committed]
<geser> that was fast, perhaps it's on egde tomorrow so I can adapt your other change to use it
<gaspa> :)
<slytherin> any docbook experts here?
<persia> slytherin, You might try #ubuntu-doc, unless it's not Ubuntu-related.
<slytherin> No. It is not ubuntu related.
<persia> Not sure if they would help then, although they do tend to use docbook a lot.  They might trade for some good writeups of some of our tech :)
<slytherin> I have very specific question about list item.
<gaspa> slytherin: you make me remember that I completely forgot that w3m-xxx issue...
<slytherin> :-)
<Laney> What is the correct way to drop a binary package from a source package if the binary has an (= ${binary:Version}) depend on another -- libgnomescanui0: Depends: libgnomescan0 (= 0.4.1-0ubuntu4) but 0.6.2-0ubuntu1 is to be installed.
<Laney> gnomescanui0 has been dropped
<geser> what happens if you simply don't build it anymore?
<geser> I don't see the problem currently
<Laney> it breaks the dependency on the previously installed version (which no longer exists)
<Laney> conflicts on the new libgnome0 could work
<hyperair> don't both binary packages come from the same source package?
<hyperair> if they do, won't it suffice to upload another version without the dependency?
<Laney> they do, and that is what happened
<Laney> but aptitude doesn't like it
<geser> you need to transition the rdepends of libgnomescanui0 anyway, after that it should be safe to let apt remove libgnomescanui0 during dist-upgrade
<Laney> there are no rdepends
<hyperair> what does aptitude full-upgrade say?
<Laney> that's what I was doing
<geser> doesn't aptitude do a safe-upgrade by default?
<hyperair> yeah it does
<Laney> dunno, but I explicitly did full-upgrade
<geser> i.e. it won't remove packages?
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> if you explicitly did, then it shouldn't be an issue
<Laney> :(
<hyperair> what does apt-cache policy libgnomescanui0 say?
<Laney> apt-get does the right thing here btw
<hyperair> eh? hmm
<hyperair> aptitude fail =(
<geser> doesn't have aptitude an option to explain why it choose a specific solution? (I don't use aptitude myself)
<hyperair> 17:47:59 <Laney> What is the correct way to drop a binary package from a source package if the binary has an (= ${binary:Version}) depend on another -- libgnomescanui0: Depends: libgnomescan0 (= 0.4.1-0ubuntu4) but 0.6.2-0ubuntu1 is to be installed.
<Laney> and the first solution it proposes is to hold back gnomescan0
<hyperair> Laney: how about libgnomescanui0 provides libgnomescan0?
<Laney> haha
<Laney> horrible :(
<hyperair> =p
<hyperair> why was libgnomescan0 removed anyway/
<cyberixae> How can there be a source package in the repository without any binary packages?
<cyberixae> That seems to be the case here http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=gnome-shell&searchon=sourcenames
<Laney> ui was removed, upstream doesn't do it any more
<Laney> cyberixae: hasn't passed binary NEW is my guess
<Laney> hyperair: if I run aptitude full-upgrade a second time after the rest of the upgrades are done it wants to remove it this time
 * Laney shrugs
<hyperair> Laney: ah. i've seen something like that before.
<geser> cyberixae: failed to build yet (depwait for gnome-shell)
<Laney> different proposal based on when you do it, weird
<hyperair> more like based on what's remaining =\
<cyberixae> I tought you'd normally fix that kind of stuff before uploading the source
<Laney> but those two packages don't affect anything else
<gnomefreak> do we support EeePC or better yet Eeebuntu?
<Laney> no
<Laney> that's a third party project afaik
<gnomefreak> thank you so much :)
<Laney> we are responsible for the packages that get installed though
<geser> cyberixae: we usually try to minimize build errors but it doesn't work out in all cases
<gnomefreak> Laney: thanks
<Laney> it's perfectly fine for stuff to depwait
<Laney> let computers do the boring scheduling work once you know it all fits together fine
<hyperair> you waste buildd time =p
<Laney> hardly
<hyperair> hardly, but the time still exists =p
<Laney> which time is more valuable?
<hyperair> uh what?
<Laney> computer time or developer time
<hyperair> heh it depends =p
<hyperair> but in this case i'd say developer time
<hyperair> you could have cron or at dput it for you, though =p
<Laney> heh
<Laney> !
<hyperair> oho
<Laney> Could do with some help removing LVM snapshots created by sbuild: http://dpaste.com/64974/
<Laney> wait
<Laney> no, can't lvchange -an the snapshot either
<bddebian> Heya gang
<highvoltage> greetings db
<highvoltage> greetings bddebian
<bddebian> Hi highvoltage
<maxb> Transferring an unanswered question from the #ubuntu-classroom dh7 session: How do you run conditional logic that must be run only when building the arch-indep packages - i.e. not on the non-i386 buildds?
<maxb> I suspect the answer may involve shell conditionals testing the output of dh_listpackages, but would welcome comments on whether this is the "right way"/
<james_w> maxb: would this be having build-arch and build-indep, or just the usual binary-arch and binary-indep split for install/creating the deb?
<persia> maxb, You add a binary-indep rule, and do some stuff before/after calling dh binary-indep
<maxb> What about stuff you need to do in the middle of the dh sequence? Example: python module package installs usr/lib/ into foo and foo-common. Then deletes *.so from the indep package and everything except *.so from the arch-dep package
<persia> That sort of separation belongs in your dh_install hint files, I think.
<persia> so it builds into debian/tmp, and foo.install vs. foo-common.install do the split.
<persia> (and foo-common install is tossed for non-arch-all builds)
<maxb> You can't say debian/tmp/usr/lib/!(*.so) in an .install file, though, can you?
<alourie> dholbach_: a word in private?
<dholbach_> alourie: sure
<persia> maxb, Sure you can, but generally you just say "usr/lib/*.so" or some such, without the debian/tmp and let dh_install figure it out.
<persia> Just need to use valid globs as parsed by dh_install (I forget if these are POSIX or perl)
<maxb> Hmm... note I used a bash extended glob above - I don't think you can actually translate that into anything dh_install will process
<persia> Well, if dh_install uses shell globs, you can force make to use bash, but that's considered a (mild) packaging bug.
<persia> Check the dh_install code.
<james_w> dh7 doesn't seem to be suited to doing actual arch-only builds though
<maxb> No, it's perl globs, and they can't do what I want, which returns us to the initial question
<persia> james_w, How do you mean "arch-only"?
<maxb> "dpkg-buildpackage -B"
<persia> maxb, Um, there's nothing a perl glob can't match, the syntax just gets ugly.
<maxb> write me a perl glob which says "all files in usr/lib/ except ones matching *.so" and I'll believe that
<maxb> They just aren't expressive enough for this
<james_w> all files with an even number of matched and nested brackets?
<james_w> maxb: that's possible in perl
<persia> maxb, I'm not actually going to do that, but I'm convinced it's possible because perl was invented because awk globs were insufficient for a certain class of accounting file review activities.
<maxb> Unless I'm totally missing something, it's not possible in a single glob expression
<alkisg> language-pack-en depends on language-pack-en-base, and the opposite, language-pack-en-base depends on language-pack-en. How can the a user install them? I've tried dpkg -i <both of them> and it fails...(I'm trying to do something similar)
<james_w> alkisg: give both at the same time to "dpkg -i"
<persia> alkisg, Have you looked at the contents, control, and maintainer scripts for those packages?
<persia> alkisg, Also, last time we talked about this, you were looking at Replaces.  What happened there?
<alkisg> james_w: I've tried that, (for 2 similar packages of mine at least) and it failed, leaving the first of them in an unconfigured state.
<alkisg> persia: that's what I'm looking into, and I'm stuck with this
<persia> alkisg, Which bit is sticking?
<alkisg> The fact that I cannot install 2 packages that depend on each-other
<alkisg> (and the second one replaces the first)
<alkisg> Do I need a third package (like language-support-en) that depends on both of them or something?
<james_w> maxb, persia: you can't do that with dh_install
<persia> alkisg, No, that doesn't matter.
<persia> james_w, Um, why not?  That's how I do libraries when I package those.
<persia> alkisg, But you don't want circular dependencies anyway.  That just leads to headaches.
<james_w> persia: you have a glob to list all files in /usr/lib except for .so?
<persia> Well, no, I list the files I want installed.  But I don't see any reason why one couldn't construct a nifty glob.
 * persia is pedestrian about these things
<maxb> persia: It's not possible. Perhaps you're confusing globs and regular expressions
<james_w> persia: I'm saying you can't construct a nifty glob
<alkisg> persia: circular dependencies seem a headache to me too, but I just thought I'd use the same (=similar) dependencies that language-pack* uses... OK, I'll just dump one dependency :) Thanks!
<james_w> dh_install uses a non-nifty glob
<persia> Ah.  That's unfortunate.
<james_w> maxb: so you can either be a bit more explicit in the install files, or use an override and rm and just list usr/lib/* in each
<persia> alkisg, If you want to use the same dependencies, you can, but you get to figure how the relation (and looking that those packages is probably your best guide).  The constrant recommendation is to not introduce circular dependencies.
<alkisg> (in bash there's a GLOBIGNORE=*.so for this - ignore me if that's irrelevant)
<persia> alkisg, We try to avoid using bash as a backing shell for make in debian/rules
<maxb> james_w: Yup, that's what I said 20 minutes ago, and then persia tried to convince me otherwise :-)
<alkisg> I'm moving my scripts away from bashisms too :)
<james_w> maxb: well, you caused me to read the source of dh_install, so it wasn't useless :-)
<maxb> So, i'm thinking that shell is the way to go here -      if dh_listpackages | egrep -q '^foo-common$'; then indeponlystuff; fi
 * persia reads more about globs, and gets annoyed at the lack of negation
<persia> maxb, Um, no.  What precisely are you trying to do?
<persia> And when do you need it done?
<maxb> I need dh_install to install usr/lib/ into a foo and a foo-common package, putting *.so into foo and not *.so into foo-common
<persia> And you can't determine !*.so in advance?
<maxb> It could be done, but it would be somewhat more fragile to upstream changes
<persia> Well, yes, but that's often a good idea when dealing with libraries.
<persia> But the other option is to have your build rule depend on build-arch and build-indep
<persia> No, that won't help.  You just have a single build run.
<persia> Right.  Got it.
<persia> Or maybe not.
<maxb> In a dh6 world, I'd just use binary-arch vs. binary-indep - simple
<persia> Just be careful with upstreams.
<persia> maxb, binary-arch and binary-indep still exist in dh7.
<persia> But dh_install runs in build.
<persia> (or rather, in install, but build depends on install)
<james_w> build depends on install?
<alkisg> persia: could you give me your advice on one last thing? I built the "base" package with all the files in it. Now I'm trying to build the "differences" package that only contains a few of those files that needed to be modified.
<alkisg> Am I understanding this correctly in that I need to copy the modified files to a different directory before I make the "differences" package? I mean that the usual "orig.tar.gz" method does not apply here, because there's no "original source" in the "differences" package, right?
<persia> No.  I'm wrong.  install depends on build.
<alkisg> (I'm probably not making any sense :()
<persia> alkisg, I don't know how to advise you.  I don't think following that model is the right way to handle updates, although I understand that you do, and your arguments.
<persia> But if you must do it that way, the differences package as native is likely least bad.
<james_w> maxb: do you really mean foo-common from /usr/lib?
<james_w> maxb: the package puts arch-indep things in /usr/lib?
<persia> Ah, good point!
<maxb> I do. Python (a bit perversely, I accept) puts *.py in /usr/lib
<persia> maxb, Does it put it directly in /usr/lib, or in /usr/lib/something?
<alkisg> persia: but is there a way to handle it as not-native, while preventing it from being 100Mb?
<maxb>  /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/dist-packages/...
<persia> alkisg, Yes, but that's probably even worse.
<persia> maxb, Then just have foo-common.install contain usr/lib/python?.?/
<maxb> The *.so files are *also* there
<persia> (or specify more closely if you know the values of X and Y)
<alkisg> persia: OK, I don't want to take any more of your time. I appreciate all of your help, thanks a lot. :)
<persia> maxb, In the same directory as the .py files?
<maxb> yes
<persia> I don't think they belong there.
<persia> Ugh, or maybe they do.
<persia> That's just broken.
<james_w> nope
<james_w> well, not for python
<persia> Well, yeah.  I claim python is broken, not the specific package.
<james_w> maxb: can you just have *.py in foo-common.install and *.so in foo.install?
<james_w> most packages don't bother with a common for this though
<maxb> For added fun, there's multiple levels of directory structure
<james_w> nice
<persia> maxb, Don't bother with -common.  That's going to be easier.
<persia> Unless the volume of arch-indep data is so large to make it very useful.
<maxb> 1.1MB indep vs 55K archdep
<maxb> :-)
<maxb> The package is mercurial, fwiw, which currently has a question in the changelog from the Debian maintainer wondering what the proper way to do this is.
<POX> arch:all python packages should not have files in /usr/lib (hint: /usr/share/pyshared)
<persia> And that's the key.  It was broken.
<persia> Fix the build system :)
<maxb> No. The files *are* in /usr/share/pyshared by the time the build finishes
<persia> Or live with arch-dep
<persia> maxb, So, what's the confusion then?  foo.install has usr/lib and foo-common.install has usr/share
<maxb> dh_install has to separate the upstream-style installation into two packages - dh_pysupport only runs later, and rearranges the structure
<persia> dh7 doesn't seem to call dh_pysupport, unless it's a hook.
<james_w> it's an addon
<james_w> /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/python_support.pm
<persia> Hrm.  And I suppose it works the way it does for legacy reasons.
<POX> .py files should be installed to the standard location (/usr/lib or /usr/local/*/dist-packages), dh_pysupport will move them to /usr/share/pyshared
<POX> /usr/share/pyshared should *not* be used in setupy.py's install
<persia> POX, So, how should one construct dh_install hint files to split a package?
<POX> make sure you use one dir only (force python2.6 to install to site-packages, without local) and then use something like /usr/lib/*/site-packages/foo/bar.py
<POX> (in package.install file)
<persia> maxb, ^^
<POX> persia: maxb: maybe '*-packages/foo/bar.py' will work as well (you'll not have to touch python2.6 stuff then)
<slytherin> geser: maven-plugin-tools needs a class which is not available in any of the packages libraries. So untill the library is located and packages, the maven work can not continue. I have asked Ludovic Claude for help as he is working on the maven stack in Debian.
<debfx> what's the best way to add a png icon to a package? base64 encoded?
<AnAnt_> Hello, should I subscribe u-u-s to such a bug: LP 397456
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 397456 in parti-all "xpra should depend on x11-xserver-utils not x11-server-utils" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397456
<maxb> slytherin: I'm intrigued... people can't even find the class?
<james_w> does anyone else find "(Accepted)" being at the end of the subject suboptimal?
<james_w> mails from soyuz that is
<soren> james_w: Woould you rather have it read something else or would you rather have "(Accepted)" somewhere else on the line?
<slytherin> maxb: I didn't find it in already packaged libraries. It is available somewhere in maven repositories in one of the jar files.
<ScottK> james_w: I do find this.
<james_w> soren: in thunderbird's collapsed mode you only get the first half of the subject
<james_w> so I have to expand it to see whether my upload was accepted or not
<slytherin> debfx: do you really need to add png icon? Won't SVG work?
<slytherin> james_w: I agree, Accepted should be in start
<debfx> hm I could use another icon that available as svg
<SolarWar> can i create multile pbuilder enviroments
<ScottK> Yes
<vorian> SolarWar: yes
<slytherin> SolarWar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<SolarWar> :) thanks I found it already
<dholbach> Adri2000: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
<Adri2000> dholbach: ahaha, thanks, but it was 2 months ago, I was slow at updating the wiki page :p
<cpscotti> Any motu there killing time? Could you check the harpia package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). It was uploaded to the archive but had some little issues (all corrected now, I think) and got rejected. I already fixed them and re-uploaded it. It is a python app to generate c source code for image processing/computer vision from block diagrams.
<geser> al-maisan: Hi, do you plan to finish the magicor merge (as I've seen that you have a potential merge in your PPA) or is this merge free to take?
<al-maisan> geser: that was the idea, yes.
<geser> no hurry, I just wanted a confirmation as fabrice_sp asked me if this merge is free or not
<al-maisan> geser: actually, I just checked my email again, "The source magicor - 1.1-1ubuntu1 is already accepted in ubuntu/karmic"
<al-maisan> is this the version in question?
<geser> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/magicor still shows 1.0-2ubuntu1
<geser> but 1.1-1 is on the to-be-merged list
<al-maisan> geser: I'll be busy with some other work in the next few days .. so if you feel like taking care of the package please do so.
<al-maisan> don't mind me :)
 * al-maisan understood that somebody else merged 1.1-1 in the meantime
<al-maisan> hmm .. no .. just checked it.
 * marienjoanny marienjoanny 
<candrews_> Can someone please work on open-vm-tools? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-vm-tools/+bug/277556 contains the addition of DKMS and fixes other bugs in open-vm-tools. The package currently in karmic is unusable.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 277556 in open-vm-tools "should build kernel modules with dkms" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<gnomefreak> reto`: there is a link in the topic for what you are looking for
<rohitkg> can anyone suggest how to modify the rules file,while creating a debian package
<maxb> rohitkg: Do not. Ever. Neither debian or ubuntu would accept such a package
<rohitkg> maxb:u mean to say,i shouldn't modify anything inside it
<binarymutant> what about postinst and preinst?
<maxb> I mean that it would be bad to have a rules file which modifies itself during the build
<rohitkg> actually i'm facing problems in understanding the rules file
<gnomefreak> was libgdl-1-0 replaced with something in Karmic?
<maxb> rohitkg: Ah. Well then, ask specific questions about what you'd like help with.
<geser> gnomefreak: libgdl-1-2
<gnomefreak> geser: thanks
<rohitkg> maxb:i want to know about the diff. macros used
<stefanlsd> rohitkg: the dh_ stuff?
<maxb> rohitkg: That is too vague an inquiry to answer. Please clarify.
<rohitkg> yeah those dh_stuffs
<reto`> gnomefreak: ok, thanks
<gnomefreak> reto`: np
<ScottK> YokoZar: I can tell you that clamd will cost you 5-6 seconds on boot if you start it at boot on a modernish laptop.
<YokoZar> ScottK: ok then that's unworkable I guess
<YokoZar> Should load it on first open of an app that needs to be scanned then
<ScottK> YokoZar: Makes sense.  You'd still want freshclam to start on boot, but that's a lot lighter.
<YokoZar> ScottK: Gives a good place to use the "have the wine swishing around the glass while loading" graphic I thought of
<ScottK> ;-)
<maxb> rohitkg: the dh_ commands are a set of related utilities known as debhelper, and provided by the package of the same name. They have manpages, which are a good place to start discovering what an unfamiliar one does.
<rohitkg> ok,i'll be going through that
<rohitkg> maxb:which tool do you prefer for building debian packages?
<maxb> debhelper. cdbs is scary
<rohitkg> ok,i'll start with it
<maxb> You might want to review the logs of the packaging training session that was held today in #ubuntu-classroot
<maxb> oops
<maxb> #ubuntu-classroom
<rohitkg> ok
<RoAkSoAx> Makefile.in, which seems to have been generated automatically, can be manually modified?
<geser> as long as you don't regenerate them yes, I usually patch both the .am and .in so the changes don't get lost if someone regenerates it
<geser> of course only if the change is small enough to be make by hand
<RoAkSoAx> geser, ok awesome, thanks. :)
<slytherin> geser: persia: Can either of you please review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/excalibur-logkit whenever you get time?
<Legendario> i am trying to pack a script which is not distribuited as a tarball, what should i do in order to not create a debian native package?
<hyperair> Legendario: create a tarball first.
<hyperair> Legendario: or create a package-version.orig directory
<Legendario> hyperair, the software is a bash script. Should i pack it as a tar.gz file and append .orig to it?
<hyperair> either way's fine =\
<hyperair> the result should be the same anyways
<Legendario> hyperair, what about the package-version.orig directory? how does it work?
<hyperair> debuild will automatically generate the .orig.tar.gz from that directory
<hyperair> that's all there is to it =\
<Legendario> hyperair, another thing... I am having a bad time on trying to create a watch file. Can u help me with that?
<hyperair> Legendario: watch files can only be created with tarballs
<hyperair> afaik
<hyperair> man uscan
<Legendario> hyperair, so should i ignore the error shown?
<hyperair> you'd probably be better off with a blank watch file and a get-orig-source rule.
<hyperair> create a blank watch file
<hyperair> with a comment saying why a watch file isn't applicable
<hyperair> and then add a get-orig-source rule to your debian/rules which automatically grabs the script and then dumps it into a tarball automatically
<Legendario> hyperair, any orientation on how to create a get-orig-source rule?
<hyperair> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html <-- scroll down to the part about get-orig-source
<hyperair> anyway i'm off to bed
<hyperair> good night
<Legendario> hyperair, thanks a lot
<Legendario> good night
<hyperair> you're welcome
<Ampelbein> Legendario: maybe http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/notes/debian/scripts.html helps with creating get-orig-source.
<Legendario> Ampelbein, gonna readit. thanks
<cpscotti> Hey everybody, could someone advocate the harpia package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). It is a python app to generate computer-vision/image processing c source code from block diagrams. It has already been uploaded to archive but got rejected due to some dependencies issues that were already fixed. Thanks a bunch!
<binarymutant> can dh7 do cmake?
<binarymutant> automagically like regular make I mean
#ubuntu-motu 2009-07-10
<pochu> binarymutant: nope
<pochu> err, actually it can
<pochu> but only the version in Debian experimental
<pochu> that is, >= 7.3
<jpds> pochu: !
<binarymutant> hey thanks for the info pochu I'll update it
<pochu> hi jpds :)
<pochu> how's it going?
<pochu> binarymutant: update what?
<jpds> Tired at the moment.
<pochu> yeah me too
<pochu> I'm gonna go to bed
<quentusrex> Anyone familiar with ldap-utils
<pochu> isn't ldap somewhat server related?
<quentusrex> I need help, the new ldap-utils won't look at the config file /etc/ldap/ldap.conf
<pochu> maybe ask in #ubuntu-server
<quentusrex> well, it's the client side...
<pochu> I dunno, sorry
 * pochu waves good night
<binarymutant> pochu, debhelper, but thanks for the previous info
<Legendario> reviews apreciatted: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/funcoeszz
<Legendario> thanks
<dtchen> kirkland: what are your opinions of tmux vice screen?
<kirkland> dtchen: dunno what that is
<dtchen> kirkland: http://tmux.sourceforge.net/ (just merged into openbsd main)
<kirkland> dtchen: oh, cool, byobu-like, perhaps?
<dtchen> a slightly older version is in debian sid / ubuntu karmic (waiting on a sponsor from debian-mentors)
<dtchen> kirkland: i was wondering if anyone had looked at adding support for tmux to byobu*
<kirkland> dtchen: no one has, but it's theoretically very doable
<kirkland> dtchen: byobu just uses screen as a window manager
<kirkland> dtchen: to deliver its functionality
<kirkland> dtchen: first i've seen of tmux
<kirkland> dtchen: do you use it?
<dtchen> kirkland: yes
<kirkland> dtchen: what are the advantages over screen, for you?
<Quintasan> g'night
<dtchen> kirkland: i haven't used screen in a while, so i'm not in the best position to speak on that. there are a few bits at http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20090707041154&pid=6 (barring the author's bias)
<directhex> hm.
<RoAk> Hey guys one quick question. What happens if the source tarball comes in the way of SingleApp.tar.gz and when untaring the source directory is SingleApp. Should I rename the source dir to singleapp and create a new tarball??
<dtchen> that's usually not a reason to repack a tarball.
<RoAk> dtchen: what should be done in such case then?
<dtchen> bah, silly connection
<sn9> marnold: ping. i'm trying out building a .deb of conspire-1.0-beta1
<marnold> sn9, for revu upload
<sn9> i was gonna ppa it
<marnold> hmm interesting
<sn9> so far, no changes from 0.20 appear necessary
<marnold> 'cept for the copyright file and some other misc stuff
<marnold> i was planing on building it with python and java support
<marnold> javascript rather
<marnold> nenolod, wants the package native like dsyslogd and some other atheme projects though so don't revu just yet
<sn9> i can wait if you'll do it yourself
<marnold> as it may conflict with Debian efforts
<sn9> debian doesn't seem to have a pkg anymore
<marnold> or you can assist me
<marnold> its in pkg-irc svn
<sn9> oh? i used the debian svn
<sn9> background: xchat has been my preferred client for years, but today i found the conspire site, and it seems to address all my long-standing gripes about xchat. i have not actually used it yet
<sn9> prior to xchat, my preferred client was irssi
<marnold> Well your welcome on pkg-irc when upstream decides what they want to do in RE maintianing the Debian branches on atheme.org
<marnold> we are disscussing atm
<sn9> marnold: but the packaging svn i used is the correct one?
<marnold> yes
<Kaptein_> Hello , my name is Marius and have been a user of Linux for the last 4 years , the two last on Ubuntu. Anyway i was wondering if theres any way i can contribute with code? I have acquired some C++ skills over the last year :)
<dtchen> Kaptein_: the topic for this channel has some starting points
<dtchen> Kaptein_: drilling down, you may wish to start with FTBFS packages, as at least some portion necessitate code changes
<marnold> sn9, We'll proceed on alioth for now if upstream wants to merge in later upstream will do so
<marnold> apply to the pkg-irc and mention i said to do so for conspire
<marnold> that is if you want in
<sn9> marnold: i am not a DD
<marnold> you still can apply to alioth
<marnold> you just have -guest appended to your username
<sn9> i registered on alioth the other day for an unrelated reason
<marnold> sn9,  join us on oftc #debian-irc
<astronouth7303> this doesn't pertain to universe. How can I adjust which packages are installed by a Live flash drive?
<astronouth7303> i'm trying to make the netbook remix fit into 2GB
 * Hobbsee eyes this MOTU thead with distaste
<ScottK> Hobbsee: The overgod one?
<Hobbsee> ScottK: yes
<Hobbsee> I'm wondeing how long it's going to take befoe a Muslim o a Buddhist o some othe eligion equests that all the bible texts get eplaced with othe religious liteatue that bette suits thei eligion.
<Hobbsee> fair's fair, right?
<micahg> ugh
<Hobbsee> and that the athiests equest that all the religious bits get taken out.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: That's why I said what I said in the thread.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: indeed.
<Hobbsee> but why stop at religion?
<micahg> Hobbsee: that's why I love America
<micahg> not what it's become
<micahg> *its
<micahg> but what it was founded on
<Hobbsee> yup
 * Hobbsee is sue that flash could be requested to be emoved, and the music playes, fom people who disagree with pornogaphic stuff.
<Hobbsee> s/music/video/
<micahg> Hobbsee: what about GUI browsers
<Hobbsee> micahg: pecisely
<micahg> we should all go back to lynx and company....
<micahg> PC drives me up the wall
<Hobbsee> i'm sue that the intollerant people can cetainly find a disto that does cate to thei wishes
<Hobbsee> i fail to see why that needs to be ubuntu
<Hobbsee> PC be damned
<micahg> Hobbsee: +1000
<dholbach> good morning
<AnAnt> james_w: nice dh 7 class ! thanks ! I converted about 4 packages so far !
<dholbach> hey AnAnt
<TheMuso> 7/c
<marnold> that overgod thingis still going
<marnold> I've predictably been a bit under the weather yet again
<marnold> errg
<dholbach> soren, geser, persia, nixternal, nhandler, jpds: you guys around?
<nixternal> I am, why?
<dholbach> MC meeting in 32m
<nixternal> yowsers, doubt I will be awake for that one
<dholbach> let's hope we get quorum together :)
<dholbach> we have 2 applicants AFAICS
<nixternal> i can't believe I am up this late honestly
 * dholbach hugs nixternal
<dholbach> hi noodles775, hi al-maisan
<al-maisan> moin dholbach
<nixternal> i am on some weird sleep schedule...in bed usually by 11pm, up between 6am and 7am
<nixternal> I think all of this cycling has changed it, as I am completely spent
<emgent> good morning! http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=6760
<nixternal> dholbach: I cannot stay awake any longer, sorry :( I am exhausted and falling asleep at the keyboard
<nixternal> no more 2am meetings :)
<nixternal> g'nite
<dholbach> nixternal: sleep tight
<soren> dholbach: o/
<dholbach> hey soren!
<geser> dholbach: yes
<dholbach> hey geser!
<dholbach> only one missing :)
<geser> good morning
<dholbach> persia, nhandler, jpds: you guys around? :-)
<raywang> hi, anyone have time to review my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/strongwind
<gaspa> Laney: have you already tried to use haskell-pkg-infos.py on ubuntu ?
<gaspa> ( if not, I can give a try this morning )
<Laney> gaspa: No, I started rewriting it in Haskell though :)
<gaspa> lol
<Laney> but you can try that. I imagine it would need some porting
<Laney> for example the wanna-build stuff you probably want to rip out
<gaspa> Laney: debian_bundle exists in haskell?
<gaspa> right
<Laney> gaspa: debian on cabal
<Laney> it's not packaged yet
<Laney> (I don't think we have all of the deps)
<gaspa> understand
<geser> gaspa: in case you wonder why the FTBFS is slight out-of-date: bug 397732
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 397732 in soyuz "Getting an SPPH through the API crashes if the SPR is unsigned" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397732
<raywang> hi, gaspa
<gaspa> geser: thanks.
<Laney> SPPH and SPR are?
<dholbach> persia, nhandler, jpds: you guys around?
<geser> Laney: SourcePackagePublishingHistory and SourcePackageRecord (but I'm not sure with the last one)
<gaspa> yep.
<gaspa> I confirm
<geser> LP API/soyuz terms/abbreviation
<gaspa> geser: do you really remeber all these acronyms? :)
<gaspa> I have to check every time.
<geser> gaspa: it will come with time
<gaspa> :)
<raywang> gaspa, hi, i have seen your comments and advise on strongwind in revu, and i have updated it. could you please look at it again? thanks :)
<raywang> gaspa, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/strongwind
<gaspa> raywang: just put on todo list... :)
<slytherin> geser: got my mesage about review?
<raywang> gaspa, awesome! thank you! :)
<geser> yes, seen it
<slytherin> ok
<gaspa> raywang: note that I didn't say how long is my todo list ;)
<gaspa> <joking>
<raywang> gaspa, haha, no worries, take your time :)
<geser> gaspa: you didn't tell either if it's a stack or queue :)
<gaspa> LOL
<gaspa> it's more likely a mess, really...
<geser> ah, a random access todo list
<gaspa> geser: :)
<cjwatson> geser: SPR => SourcePackageRelease, FWIW
<cjwatson> e.g. upstart_0.6.0-2
<Apple92> Hi everybody
<Laney> argh
<Laney> HTTP error 500 with requestsync --lp
<Laney> http://dpaste.com/65393/
<geser> Laney: it's due to bug 397732
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 397732 in soyuz "Getting an SPPH through the API crashes if the SPR is unsigned" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397732
<geser> Laney: it should be fixed in the next edge update
<Laney> oh cool, I didn't know what the actual impact of that bug was
<geser> Laney: it only happens for synced packages, using the LP API function getPublishedSources() on such a package results in an OOPS as the synced package has no signed-by field. and requestsync uses this function to find out the current package version
<Laney> aha
<slytherin> Laney: drop '--lp' and try again. :-)
<geser> slytherin: Laney used the IRC option instead :)
<slytherin> any of the revu hackers here?
<ajmitch> slytherin: vaguely familiar with it, why?
<slytherin> ajmitch: just wondering if there is any plan to develop a pull-revu-source script. :-D
<slytherin> similar to pull-lp-source and pull-debian-source
<ajmitch> slytherin: funny you should ask, I think it was hyperair who said he had something for that earlier today
<hyperair> indeed, that was me =p
<hyperair> slytherin: the script's a one-liner: dget http://revu.ubuntuwire.com$(wget -qO- http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/$1 | egrep -ho /revu1-incoming/\[^\"\]+dsc)
<ajmitch> ah good, you can handle that, time for me to go & sleep :)
<hyperair> you can even stick it in a bash function in ~/.bashrc =\
<hyperair> haha
<ajmitch> nearly midnight here
<slytherin> hyperair: that is cool.
<hyperair> that's early =)
<hyperair> slytherin: thanks =)
<Laney> requestsync --ask-an-archive-admin works surprisingly well :)
<Laney> hyperair: you should stick that in ubuntu-dev-tools
<hyperair> Laney: good idea. i'll file a bug sometime
<Laney> just do a merge request
<Laney> probably needs a man page and some error handling though :(
<jpds> bug #389895
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389895 in ubuntu-dev-tools "pull-revu-source" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389895
<jpds> It should be called, pull-revu-sauce
<Laney> pull-cracky-crack
<hyperair> hehe
<slytherin> geser: did you find any time to review excalibur-logkit?
<geser> sorry, not yet
<slytherin> geser: I wouldn't have bother you if it was not java package. :-)
<pochu> DktrKranz: where'd bluekuja so that I can congratulate him? :)
<geser> slytherin: will try to squeeze it in for today
<slytherin> geser: thanks
<DktrKranz> pochu: /query bluekuja
<DktrKranz> ScottK: any chance to backport quilt 0.46-7 to jaunty? More and more packages do use of --with quilt
<ScottK> DktrKranz: What else is in the change?
<ogra> directhex, halp
<DktrKranz> http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/q/quilt/quilt_0.46-7/changelog
<DktrKranz> add perl as b-d and some minor adjustments
<DktrKranz> it's targeted mainly for that
<_andre> hello
<_andre> i created 3 packages for submission, opened the bugs in launchpad and uploaded them to REVU
<_andre> is there anything else i should do, or should i just wait till someone takes a lookt at them?
<pochu> _andre: you can paste some links here, maybe someone is interested in the packages
<_andre> ok
<_andre> they're all related
<_andre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/397443  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/397445  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/397453
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 397443 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] watchcatd" [Wishlist,In progress]
<orange_> hi there. I have a packaging problem
<orange_> I rebuild a package and all works fine but a certain file gets pacakged as foo.distrib instead of foo
<orange_> could someone tell me why this is?
<orange_> /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check gets packaged as /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check.distrib
<Quintasan> orange_: check *.install files in debian/
<orange_> manually renaming foo.distrib to foo works but this is certainly not desired
<Laney> try building with export DH_VERBOSE=1
<Laney> I don't know of any tool which would do that if your .install file is right
<orange_> the install script is correct
<orange_> Quintasan, update-notifier.install lists the right path but it's not installed that way
<Laney> rebuild it and save the log
<Laney> we can look at that
<orange_> I just introduced a "backport" from jaunty to intrepid version of update-notifier and rebuild
<cody-somerville> Whats the best way to do deal with an upstream who released an rc and actual release (note there are changes between the two releases) but don't change the version (so the tarball name is different but naturally have different md5sums)?
<Quintasan> orange_: maybe it's in a different *.install file
<orange_> one second please
<Quintasan> cody-somerville: if there is an actual release we don't need rc, do we?
<Laney> cody-somerville: the RC was uploaded?
<cody-somerville> Laney, yes
<Laney> without putting ~rc1 or similar in the upstream version I presume
<orange_> Quintasan, there are only two .install files and none of them list the wrong install destination
<orange_> strange
<ramvi> Building ubiquity works when building amd64, but complains about missing gtk+-2.0 when building i386, any idea why?
<Laney> I guess you have to make it 1.0+final-0ubuntu1 and put a uversionmangle in the watchfile
<Laney> gtk was just uploaded today
<orange_> Laney, I have to admit that this is my first rebuild - what logs do you need?
<Laney> probably half broken
<Quintasan> orange_: do as Laney said, I think log will be much more helpful
<Laney> orange_: put export DH_VERBOSE=1 in the rules file near the top
<orange_> logs in /debian as well?
<Laney> and then build it in pbuilder
<Laney> and save all of that output to a file
<orange_> I used "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b" for rebuilding
<orange_> what's pbuilder?
<orange_> sorry, packaging newb here
<Laney> ok, that'll be good enough
<cody-somerville> Laney, aye
<Laney> cody-somerville: LART upstream and then just uversionmangle it :(
<Laney> how can an RC have the same version as final anyway?
<orange_> Laney, so what logs do you need? something in /debian?I have two .debhelper.log files
<orange_> is that what you're looking for?
<Quintasan> orange_: I suppose you would be interested in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<Laney> orange_: no
<ramvi> Anyone know why when building ubiquity works when building amd64, but complains about missing gtk+-2.0 when building i386?
<Laney> all of the output that you get when you build it
<Laney> with verbose turned on
<orange_> Laney, http://pastebin.com/m756dc019
<Laney> you didn't turn verbose on
<orange_> sorry, no verbose
<orange_> damn me
<orange_> export DH_VERBOSE=1
<orange_> where to put this?
<orange_> just write the export command to the terminal before building?
<orange_> I'm sorry, I've never done this before
<Quintasan> orange_: you put this to debian/rules
<cpscotti> Hey there, some motu there could advocate the harpia package ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). It is a python app to generate computer-vision/image processing c code from block diagrams. It has already been uploaded to archive but got rejected due to some dependencies issues that were already fixed.
<hyperair> what's responsible for compressing stuff in /usr/share/doc/<pkg>?
<Laney> dh_compress
<hyperair> aah
<hyperair> right
<hyperair> now i see.
<hyperair> more than 4k
<hyperair> no wonder half of them were compressed and the other half not =.=
<Laney> they're different?
<orange_> I'll start over again
<orange_> will come back later
<orange_> thx a million for ya support so far
<hyperair> Laney: what?
<Laney> what what?
<Laney> oh
<Laney> the source package ships different readme files?
<hyperair> yeah
<hyperair> geany-plugins
<Laney> i see
<hyperair> i'm working on packaging that, now that it's been released
<Laney> nice one
<hyperair> =)
<hyperair> i had to hack up a bash loop to call dh_installchangelogs per-package, since each ChangeLog is different, heh.
<Laney> package.changelogs file?
<hyperair> does that work? O_o
<hyperair> the manpage says that'll end up being favoured over debian/changelog
<hyperair> oh and it's debian/package.changelog
<Laney> k
<Laney> that's what you want I think
<hyperair> =\ no
<hyperair> i want to have a different upstream changelog for each package
<Laney> right?
<hyperair> debian/package.changelog overrides the package's debian changelog.
<hyperair> rather than the upstream changelog.
<Laney> I thought it let you specify which changelogs to install
<hyperair> nope it doesn't.
<hyperair> what do you think would happen if someone were to pass more than one upstream changelog per package?
<Laney> use dh_installdocs then
<Laney> I think it would break
<Laney> my $upstream = shift;
<hyperair> ?
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> well dh_installdocs doesn't rename the ChangeLog
<hyperair> it'll end up as /usr/share/doc/pkg/ChangeLog.gz rather than /usr/share/doc/pkg/changelog.gz
<Laney> :q
 * hyperair wonders if that was a vim command creeping into irc or an emoticon
<Laney> the former
<rrittenhouse> How do I go about replacing Firefox 3.0 with Firefox 3.5 on jaunty? I see it's in the repos but its not replacing 3.0.
<Laney> it's not supposed to
<Laney> you install 3.5 and uninstall 3.0
<micahg> rrittenhouse: !ff35
<rrittenhouse> but then nothing works it seems
<rrittenhouse> things try to open "firefox" and it doesn't exist
<micahg> rrittenhouse: firefox in jaunty is 3.0
<micahg> firefox-3.5 is what it says it is
<Laney> hyperair: meh I thought dh_installchangelogs did what I wanted it to do. Sounds like a reasonable feature for it to have imho
 * hyperair dpkg-diverted /usr/bin/firefox and manually linked it to firefox-3.6
<rrittenhouse> Is it supposed to say "Minefield 3.5 Web Browser" ?
<hyperair> Laney: i thought so too, but the manpage disagreed. oh well =\
<Laney> file a feature request!
 * hyperair is lazy
<hyperair> the shell loop does fine
<Laney> pfft
<Laney> you could just copy the code from _installdocs
<hyperair> heheh
<hyperair> dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: debian/geany-plugin-addons/usr/lib/geany/addons.so contains an unresolvable reference to symbol strchr@GLIBC_2.2.5: it's probably a plugin. <-- i can't figure out what's going on here =(
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys. What should be done when a tarball comes like SimpleApp-0.1.tar.gz, and when untaring, the source directory is SingleApp-0.1. Should I rename the source directory and create a new tarball or what should be done?
<micahg> rrittenhouse: it should be Shiretoko Web Browser for 3.5 with the release version
<rrittenhouse> micahg, That's what I meant. Sorry :)
<Laney> RoAkSoAx: doesn't dpkg-source take care of this?
<rrittenhouse> micahg, What is the reasoning behind not just calling it "Firefox 3.5" ?
<rrittenhouse> It really threw me off thinking I had the wrong version lol.
<hyperair> rrittenhouse: firefox unstable builds are known as "Minefield"
<hyperair> rrittenhouse: and firefox 3.x is known as Shiretoko
<hyperair> i think
<micahg> !ff3.5 | rrittenhouse
<ubottu> rrittenhouse: Firefox 3.5 Final is available for Jaunty by installing the package firefox-3.5 | FF3.5 is referred to as Shiretoko on your UI, see http://is.gd/1reB3 for an explanation | Hardy & Intrepid: http://is.gd/1jkNY
 * hyperair is considering packaging microemu. is debian-java alive, i wonder =\
<RoAkSoAx> Laney, how so?
<rrittenhouse> thx micahg.
<hyperair> RoAkSoAx: dpkg-source's manpage says that it untars and renames it
<RoAkSoAx> hyperair, ok cool, will take a look :)
<hyperair> have fun
 * hyperair falls asleep on his keyboard
<maco> hi. ive got 6 debdiffs on bug 389751. some are universe, some main. are a couple sponsors available?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 389751 in kdesdk "Change "abort" to "close" or "cancel" in default KDE apps" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/389751
<hyperair> ...six.
<hyperair> why do you have six debdiffs?
<maco> affects 6 packages
<hyperair> six different packages?
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> did you subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors and ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<maco> main is subscribed, not universe..i...hmmm actually im not sure there are any universe ones. 5 are definitely main
<rrittenhouse> One last FF question: So that programs launch the right firefox do I make a symbolic link to /usr/bin/firefox that links to the 3.5 executable ?
<maco> oh, kdegames is main. theyre all main
<maco> sorry for the confusion
<RainCT> nhandler: I'm doing the stats stuff you asked for on REVU.
<RainCT> nhandler: Is week supposed to be "last 7 days" or "since monday"?
<nhandler> RainCT: I would think last 7 days
<nhandler> And thanks a lot RainCT. I'll keep my eyes on the bug report
<RainCT> Okay. That's one (or maybe three) extra queries then
<RainCT> nhandler: uhm, the "X +/- than less week" part isn't possible
<RainCT> as REVU doesn't know when stuff was archived
<nhandler> RainCT: Ok, no problem.
<RainCT> nhandler: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/stats.py
<hyperair> what's the difference between ${source:Version} and ${binary:Version}? @_@
<hyperair> i previously thought source:Version was the version minus the debian revision.
<hyperair> whoops
<RainCT> hyperair: I think there's some way to release binaries with a different version than the source package, and that ${binary:Version} may be used in that case (don't take my word thought, I've heard something like this but never seen it myself)
<ScottK> RainCT: Only in Debian.  We don't do it.
<hyperair> huh O_o
<hyperair> how do you do something like that?
<hyperair> isn't the version taken straight out of debian/changelog?
<ScottK> They have a concept of binary NMU which is a binary only rebuild.
<hyperair> i see.
<ScottK> It gets auto added to the changelog in the .deb
<hyperair> ah
<hyperair> so the one i was looking for was actually ${source:Upstream-Version}
<RainCT> ScottK: ah, so that's only for rebuilds?
<ScottK> RainCT: Exactly.
 * hyperair thought that rebuilds rebuild the entire package from source
<hyperair> so it's only binary-arch eh..
<ScottK> hyperair: In Ubuntu they do.  In Debian they don't.
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> there are more differences between debian and ubuntu than i thought =\
<ScottK> YokoZar: Looks like maybe a decent target for ubuntu-mid: http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/ssh_to_debian_chroot_on_palm_pre/
<YokoZar> ScottK: thanks
<majikman> why in the world does tomcat log error messages into syslog?????
<hyperair> to allow people like me to lol at people like you who suddenly discover tomcat error messages in your syslog =p
<majikman> sigh.... can't they revert it back to normal operation? tomcat errors should go in their own log file
<majikman> if i wanted a consolidated log file, i'd use syslog-ng or one of those apps
<rohitkg> can anyone help me on debian-packaging
<rohitkg> actually, i have written a C program,and a makefile for it
<rohitkg> now, i want to create a debian package, out of this
<Pici> rohitkg: have you read the packaging guide yet?
 * hyperair grumbles about his malfunctioning dvdrw drive
<rohitkg> yeah, i'm using cdbs
<Pici> rohitkg: see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<rohitkg> actually, i'm having problem in understanding the rules file
<maxb> rohitkg: In my opinion cdbs is more complexity than you need, and you'd be better served avoiding it, especially for a simple C program
<maxb> rohitkg: *specific* questions are the key to getting effective help on IRC
<rohitkg> i tried to build using just debhelper
<rohitkg> but of no help
<rohitkg> the problem is that i'm unable to add my own commands to the rules file.
<rohitkg> maxb:actually i'm not able understand this portion
<rohitkg> Pici:^^^^
<maxb> rohitkg: I'm sorry, but you're not communicating what your problem is.
<Pici> rohitkg: I'm not a packager, just someone trying to be a little helpful, sorry.
<rohitkg> maxb:it'll be better if u explain me the way of converting that C program into a package
<maxb> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide
<rohitkg> i have gone through that
<maxb> There is perfectly good documentation that explains the generalities, I'm not going to rewrite it all on the fly into IRC
<rohitkg> maxb:that one is much more complicated one
<slytherin> rohitkg: what are you trying to do?
<rohitkg> slytherin:look i have written a simple C program, and want to create a package out of this
<slytherin> rohitkg: what program is that? How is it compiled? Where is the tar.gz for this program?
<rohitkg> slytherin:this one is a simple hello,world program, i'm compiling it using a makefile
<rohitkg> and it's stored in directory named myhello-1.0
<rohitkg> to go with the naming standards
<slytherin> rohitkg: you need to have a tar.gz file that contains both the c source file and the makefile.
<slytherin> you can simply do 'tar -zcvf myhello_1.0.tar.gz myhello-1.0'
<rohitkg> ok, wait
<slytherin> sorry, name of tar should be myhello_1.0.orig.tar.gz
<rohitkg> actually, while using the command dh_make --createorig
<rohitkg> it's creating one
<rohitkg> slytherin:what next
<slytherin> rohitkg: next follow the instructions in the packaging guide.
<rohitkg> slytherin: i have done that, but i'm facing problems while building the package,and the packaging guide uses an older version of debhelper
<slytherin> rohitkg: what problem?
<rohitkg> slytherin:the problem is i don't know to use that build section to build my package
<rohitkg> int he build-stamp portion
<rohitkg> sorry,in the
<slytherin> rohitkg: How about simply 'make' (without quotes).
<rohitkg> slytherin:can you explain, what's that CFLAGS used for
<slytherin> rohitkg: Frankly, if you don't know how autotools based build systems work then I don't see the point in trying to package something. Even if it is a program you wrote.
<rohitkg> slytherin:from where can i know about it?
<slytherin> rohitkg: google
<rohitkg> slytherin:wait
<rohitkg> slytherin:ok i'll go through it,anything else you suggest
<slytherin> nothing comes to my mind.
<rohitkg> ok thanx
<nhandler> RainCT: The text activity log looks great! Thanks a ton
<RainCT> nhandler: no problem :)
<maco> slytherin, why autotools and not cmake?
<maco> kde just went all-cmake
<slytherin> maco: he is already using a makefile, so I just assumed it was autotools based.
<slytherin> I don't know much about c programs.
<ScottK> Dealing with KDE packaging is SOOOOO much easier now that their build system is cmake based.
<maco> slytherin, autotools is difficult to use and way overcomplicated for a hello world
<maco> for simple things, Makefiles are a matter of typing 3 lines into a file and naming it "Makefile"
<slytherin> maco: I know, for the person who doesn't know what CFLAGS are, what other documentation would you suggest?
<maco> if it really is a hello world, he doesnt even need CFLAGS :P
<maco> but id say look up info about gcc rather than about autotools
<maco> i learned to write Makefiles from the O'Reilly book "Practical C Programming" ...though i've forgotten most of it by now
<slytherin> I love java and ant. :-P
<slytherin> geser: I didn't see the build failure for excalibur-logkit that you noticed. Is you pbuilder chroot updated?
<RoAkSoAx> Hey guys why would something like: Local variables: +mode: debian-changelog +End: is added to the end of the debian/changelog?
<rawler> one question I'm pondering: is it possible to have Ubuntu auto-detect unused packages?
<rawler> I'm pretty sure there are packages in my system that have not been used at all for a great while.. now when I'm about to go wild-and-crazy and try Karmic, I wonder if I can shave a bit of time from the upgrade-process by removing old cruft first.. any ideas?
<reto`> rawler: so you mean something beyond autoremove?
<rawler> yeah..
<rawler> for instance, I know I've installed quite a bunch of packages over the years, just for testing something, or -dev packages for building something to test, and then just forgot about it..
<rawler> I used to run without relatime, so maybe recurse through installed packages and checking atime on the files would have been a start.. unfortunately, now I run relatime, so no luck there..
<Kangarooo> rawler: sudo aptitude purge *packag-name*
<rawler> yeah, I wasn't asking about REMOVING packages.. that's not a problem.. the problem is FINDING which packages I don't use..
<rawler> quick sifting through synaptic found some 386 pkgs I don't have immediate use for, but it got me thinking, shouldn't there be an easier way?
<reto`> rawler: the problem is... how can the system know if you use a dev package for instance, or not?
<Kangarooo> and this also removed all very old unusable packages for me.. try- delete one unusable programm
<geofft> rawler: You could try to list the packages that are not recursive depends of ubuntu-desktop
<ScottK> I think the cruft cleaner is supposed to maybe help with this.  Not sure.
<rawler> atime would perhaps partially work (provided I do not run relatime, which I do), but the real problem I'd say, is how should the system separate actually using some resource from /usr/share, from just some indexing process indexing it?
<rawler> geofft: how would I do that?
<rawler> Kangarooo: what do you mean?
<Kangarooo> rawler: do this just once try. install something like sudo apt-get install pastebinit && sudo aptitude purge pastebinit
<rawler> Kangarooo: yeah, but that only removes old deps, right?
<rawler> not old explicitly installed packages?
<rawler> I've also looked at deborphan, which helps a bit, but I wonder if it shouldn't be easier..
<geofft> yeah, 'locate' will scan all files on your system nightly, so atime may not help.
<rawler> ScottK: cruft cleaner removes some packages, but doesn't do this..
<geofft> rawler: when I needed this recently, I scripted something to parse apt-rdepends' output
<geofft> and use comm(1) to compare that with the set of packages on the system
<rawler> geofft: oh.. :) I could probably script something through python-apt, then.. :)
<geofft> (or in my case, another apt-rdepends -r)
<ScottK> rawler: Perhaps you could discuss your use case with liw and he might include it.
<rawler> ScottK: liw?
<Kangarooo> week ago I removed one package with aptitude purge and it also deleted 128mb of something else but programm with sudo apt-get purge wanted only to remove 2mb.. witch was the size of that programm.. and remove only removes and purge removes and purges settings.. so purge is cooler for cleaner system but aptitude purge is more cooler couse it checked other things also what's not needed..
<rawler> ScottK: the problem is, I don't think there are any clear attributes to go by when deciding what is an "unused app"..
<rawler> Kangarooo: aptitude purge only does automatic "apt-get autoremove" AFAIU
<ScottK> I suspect you are right, but if you get him excited about the idea, then he has to figure it out, not you.
<rawler> does someone here have any reasonable guesstimate on how much system resources would be consumed by having a constantly running daemon running in the background, recording file-accesses, and storing it in a database? like, ' strace | grep open ' ... then you could get away from the problem with atime updated by indexers (by blacklisting indexers), and perhaps get the access-data you need?
<geofft> ralwer: er, you want inotify for that.
<rawler> geofft: doesn't inotify only react on file-alteration?
<geofft> If for no other reason than strace changes properties of apps (e.g., setuid)
<geofft> IIRC it reacts on access as well.
<geofft> yeah, the manpage talks about an IN_ACCESS or IN_OPEN watch
<Kangarooo> rawler: if questions in launchpad can be asked one for many groups then im asking does someone know is it possible to ask one question for many groups of launchpad with one question id?
<rawler> Kangarooo: was that really meant for me?
<Kangarooo> rawler: yes. couse your question maybe will be too complicated to answer so it needs to be stored.. and asked for bigger group of ubuntu users. but I dont know if its possible to ask with one question id to many launchpad groups. so question to everyone- is it?
<rawler> geofft: cool.. i wonder if inotify can connect changes to a certain PID, though.. :S
<geofft> not as far as I can see, but you can do lsof or something equivalent
<geofft> The real problem is that you want to run this for a month or so.
<rawler> yeah.. I'm thinking whether it COULD be implemented as a system-service, for use with the cruft-removal tool, for instance..
<cjwatson> RoAkSoAx: those are formatting instructions to emacs
<cjwatson> geofft: I'd have thought that locate would only look at directory contents and thus would not cause atime updates on files. Of course there may be other things that cause spurious atime updates, but I wouldn't expect very many given that popularity-contest relies on atime
<cjwatson> (at least partially)
#ubuntu-motu 2009-07-11
<rawler> cjwatson: exactly how does popularity-contest work?
<rawler> does it actually track "usage" of packages somehow, not just which packages is installed?
<RoAkSoAx> cjwatson, should I remove them?
<cjwatson> rawler: err, probably best to look at its documentation or source or whatever; I haven't looked at it in ages. It does attempt to track usage via atime, though.
<cjwatson> RoAkSoAx: if they already exist in a Debian package, removing them would create an unnecessary delta
<rawler> cjwatson: oki.. :)
<cjwatson> RoAkSoAx: if it's entirely your own package, then it's up to you; they're unnecessary if you don't use emacs
<cjwatson> (and personally I think that sort of thing belongs in .emacs so that it applies to */debian/changelog, not in each individual file)
<rawler> cjwatson: I don't know if you saw my original question, but I'm pondering a way to auto-detect unused packages, and suggest them for removal, I.E. in cruft remover..
<cjwatson> but if it's somebody else's package, leave them be
<cjwatson> rawler: I did, but it's after midnight here and I'm about to go ... ;-)
<rawler> so, I guess I'll just keep looking.. :)
<rawler> me too.. see you all.. I'll probably check back in when I have something more concrete.. :)
<RoAkSoAx> cjwatson, Ok. Since they were introduced in the Ubuntu changelog I guess I'll just remove them. Thanks :).
<rawler> (IF I can come up with something more concrete)
<xMrKrnlx> KernelCheck - tool for an automated build of a kernel from the latest source - up for reviewing: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/kernelcheck
<AnAnt> Hello, I am trying to convert a package 'dico' to use dh 7, the issue is that dico got subfolders where I'll have to get into myself & build (ie. I got to override dh_auto_build), now those subfolders got python scripts/modules (ie. setup.py is there), now I wanted to see how dh_auto_build handles setup.py files so I found that it simply runs: python setup.py build
<AnAnt> similarly dh_auto_install runs: python setup.py install
<AnAnt> shouldn't it be doing something like this: $(subst $(PYDEF),python,$*) setup.py build/install ?
 * AnAnt thinks: why did I say this  very long intro  ?!
<ScottK> AnAnt: Why are you trying to convert it?
<AnAnt> ScottK: good question
<ScottK> I generally go by the motto if it's not broken, don't fix it.
<AnAnt> ScottK: well, most packages that I converted looked simpler after conversion, that's all, so I'm seeing if the same can be done for dico
<AnAnt> ScottK: ok, regardless of the conversion, is what I noticed correct ?
<ScottK> AnAnt: IMO "looks simpler" is exactly that.  It isn't simpler, it's just the more of the complexity is hidden.
<ScottK> AnAnt: I don't know.  I haven't messed with DH 7 stuff much yet.
<AnAnt> shouldn't dh_auto_build/install be doing a $(subst $(PYDEF),python,$*)
<AnAnt> ok
<AnAnt> ScottK: btw, although the motto 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' is usually correct, yet sometimes it is nice to cleanup (and sometimes simplify) code for easier future maintainance
<ScottK> Certainly.  Preventative maintenance has it's value
<StevenK> I like the debhelper 7 stuff for simple packages
<cpscotti> Ampelbein, warp10 : Could you (or some other motu) review/advocate the harpia package, it got rejected by the archive by some minor (now solved) dependencies issue. ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). (python app, opencv, computer vision)..
<or4n9e> hi there. could it be that casper introduces some local diversions to dpkg-divert --list on every reboot?
<or4n9e> I removed a local diversion of /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check and once rebooted this diversion is automatically restored
<or4n9e> is there a way to adjust this - I permanently need to get rid of the diversion
<or4n9e> ?
<slytherin> geser: ping
<rohitkg> to everyone:i have written a C program, and i wanted to create  a package out of it.
<rohitkg> i have done all the steps to create it, but there is a problem during cleaning
<rohitkg> can anyone help me out?
<rohitkg> these are the pastebin links
<rohitkg> http://pastebin.com/d4893c87d for makefile
<rohitkg> http://pastebin.com/d1fd60256 for rules
<rohitkg> http://pastebin.com/dd0a1060 while package building
<rohitkg> maxb:can you look at my problem given above ^^^^^
<slytherin> rohitkg: did you actually read the errors?
<rohitkg> yeah, it said,there was no such directory as Hello
<slytherin> rohitkg: so?
<slytherin> fix that error
<rohitkg> slytherin:how should i correct that,should i make a change in the makefile?
<slytherin> rohitkg: check the clean target in your debian/rules file
<rohitkg> ok
<rohitkg> slytherin:can you mention,which location it should point to,i'm not gettin it
<rohitkg> the source files and the debian directory is under myhello-1.0
<slytherin> rohitkg: I don't know. It is your program.
<rohitkg> slytherin:can you please go through that pastebin links?
<slytherin> rohitkg: sorry, I am busy
<rohitkg> ok
<rohitkg> thanx anyway
<pochu> RainCT: hey, you're doing it wrong (pkg-gnome) :)
<pochu> can you join #gnome-debian on GimpNet?
<RainCT> pochu: yeah, I asked several times how to do it some time ago but nobody answered :/
<pochu> oh
<pochu> guess I wasn't around ;)
<RainCT> pochu: and now I couldn't even remember the name of the channel lol (why not #debian-gnome like anyone else?)
<pochu> 'couse we're special =)
<RainCT> DktrKranz: uhm, I can't build that kupfer thing. Maybe it's becoming time I upgrade to Karmic.. :P
<DktrKranz> RainCT, probably. I install files in a private location, that is supported with latest pysupport and distutils, I think
<RainCT> DktrKranz: well, it fails at the build dependencies already :)
<DktrKranz> you need keybinder
<DktrKranz> (also uploaded)
<RainCT> DktrKranz: yep, and that one needs a new debhelper and python-gnomeapplet or sth which my apt doesn't find
<RainCT> ah but there are screenshots at the website, that's all I wanted to see :)
<DktrKranz> heh
<DktrKranz> I can provide one myself, I've currently installed (Debian box, but it's the same)
<DktrKranz>  debhelper | 7.0.17ubuntu4 |        jaunty | source, all
<DktrKranz> and yes, you require 7.0.50
<sebner> RainCT: pfff, jaunty. pfff. karmic karmic karmic
<RainCT> DktrKranz: nah don't worry, was just curious how it looks
<DktrKranz> it's much similar to early gnome-do
<DktrKranz> well... it's intended to do the same job, so I think it's normal ;)
<RainCT> sebner: are you also like this when your X doesn't start? :D
<RainCT> DktrKranz: well, it hasn't a dock, so no fun *g*
<DktrKranz> RainCT, do you need X? use framebuffer!
<DktrKranz> RainCT, my gnome-do won't have dock, compiz and I don't fit well
<sebner> RainCT: my X always starts up. You just have to punch it hard enough :P
<RainCT> btw, do you also have to press space for your system to boot?
<RainCT> (I have the .31~rc2 kernel here and it says something about unsupported video mode 303 -or maybe 606?- and press space to continue or enter to see list of modes)
<sebner> RainCT: nope
<sebner> RainCT: it just needs 28 seconds to boot up instead of 18 with jaunty ^^
<RainCT> sebner: ah, i think here it's faster
<DktrKranz> RainCT, what about passing vga=something to grub?
<DktrKranz> ScottK, mind rejecting kupfer package in karmic/NEW? I have to reupload a fixed version
<ScottK> DktrKranz: I can do that.
<ScottK> DktrKranz: Rejected.
<DktrKranz> thanks
<ScottK> No problem.
<slytherin> asac: When is xulrunner-dev likely to depend on xulrunner-1.9.1-dev in karmic?
<geser> slytherin: pong
<slytherin> geser: I didn't get any build failure again, but build fails in PPA. What do you suggest?
<geser> if it fails in PPA, I assume that it will also fail in the main archive
<geser> slytherin: I can advocate it if it helps you in someway
<slytherin> geser: So should I disable the test case and upload, or should I take chance by uploading right now and if it fails I will disable the test later.
<slytherin> geser: I packaged it as it is essential build-dep for jmeter. I have been working on jmeter for past 4 months at least. :-)
<Laney> wow
<Laney> I think I broke something on my system
<Laney> pbuilder tarballs take *ages* to extract/update now
<Laney> like 5 minutes
<geser> slytherin: advocated as I'm sure you will deal with the FTBFS
<geser> so you can upload it now (too busy right now to do it myself)
<geser> and the PPA build error is the same I get in my pbuilder
<sebner> Laney: seems so. here it takes 1.5 minutes for the whole procress (updating 10 packages from today)
<slytherin> geser: uploading. I guess it will take some time to come out of new queue
<Laney> does anyone use sbuild/lvm on karmic?
<Laney> I get "FATAL: Module dm_snapshot not found.
<slytherin> geser: In case you have nothing better to do, can you also take a look at swtcalendar. I have already advocated it.
<Laney> FATAL: Module dm_snapshot not found.
<slytherin> Laney: probably not available for the kernel version you are running
<Laney> any specific reason why it wouldn't be?
<slytherin> Laney: no idea, never used sbuild.
<geser> slytherin: perhaps later, I hope to finally do the task I wanted to get done the whole week already :(
<slytherin> geser: no issues. :-)
<gaspa> Laney: do you have a minute?
<directhex> he's at the supermarket
<jpds> directhex: Waitrose?
<cpscotti> Someone there with time to review/advocate the harpia package, it got rejected by the archive by some minor (now solved) dependency issues. It already got one advocate! ( http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/harpia ). (python app, opencv, computer vision).
<RainCT> cpscotti: out of curiosity, what can it be used for?
<cpscotti> RainCT: Computer Vision and Image processing applications
<kecskebak> Can anyone suggest a good example of a PyGTK package with yelp help? I'm trying to figure out how to get F1 working in a PyGTK app.
<cpscotti> RainCT: For instance, you could generate a "person detector" with a few blocks (3 or 4), set your webcam as input and a shell command as an output (for, lets say, "speak hi" or "shoot").
<cpscotti> RainCT: Also, you could easily apply video effects to any home video of yours, images...
<cpscotti> In the app's help menu u can find a few examples
<RainCT> cpscotti: the README isn't interesting to users of the .deb
<RainCT> cpscotti: and the path to the GPL must be "../GPL-3" as the license isn't "or later"
<cpscotti> RainCT: could I just remove that readme (I agree with u)
<RainCT> cpscotti: sure, just removing debian/docs may do, if it doesn't youll need some special CDBS_ line in debian/rules (I can look it up if you need it)
<cpscotti> RainCT: is it all right to add build-essential to Build-Depends ? debuild seems to need it..
<RainCT> cpscotti: no, that's always installed
<Laney> jpds: asda
<cpscotti> RainCT:so... I just uploaded the fixed version
<Laney> and now I'm back.... with toffee yum yums!
<Laney> gaspa: hi!
<RainCT> cpscotti: the README is still being installed
<cpscotti> RainCT: could I just remove it?
 * cpscotti leaving for lunch 
<RainCT> cpscotti: no, there's a proper way to do it, a DEB_DOCS_ALL variable or something like that but I can't recall the exact name :/
<RainCT> cpscotti: ok, enjoy your meal
<jacob> any MOTU want to do a quick review of gfire? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=5744
<therm> anyone out there likes reviewing my package? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/swtcalendar
<therm> it has been advocated one time
<jacob> actually, seems my previous link should be http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=6004
<slytherin> does uscan save the new upstream version number in some environment variable after it finishes the scan?
<hyperair> uscan is a child process.
<hyperair> it can't change the parent's environment variable
<hyperair> unless i'm mistaken
<slytherin> hmm, I want to write the get-orig-source such that I can use the version number found out by uscan. I can not use uupdate because the upstream source needs repacking.
<jmarsden> slytherin: See an excerpt from a rules file I created that does this... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/215622/
<james_w> slytherin: get-orig-source is not for that
<cpscotti> RainCT: Any ideas on how to eliminate the README, or where can I find docs about that "DEB_DOCS_ALL" var or something?
<pochu> cpscotti: cdbs?
<RainCT> pochu: yes
<pochu> /usr/share/doc/cdbs/cdbs-doc.html
<cpscotti> I found DEB_INSTALL_DOCS_ALL, is it that?
<RainCT> cpscotti: yeah, that's it
<RainCT> try adding "DEB_INSTALL_DOCS_ALL=" to debian/rules
<cpscotti> building it
<cpscotti> works..
<cpscotti> =]
<cpscotti> RainCT: just uploaded the fixed version
<RainCT> cpscotti: have you tried it it works?
<RainCT> (yeah it does)
<RainCT> cpscotti: uploaded
<cpscotti> RainCT: yep, I build the binary and it didn't install the readme
#ubuntu-motu 2009-07-12
<unknown_vv> ao
<mr_spot_> hey, is there anybody about who can review pulseaudio-mixer-applet? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pulseaudio-mixer-applet
<therm> Hi @all
<therm> have a problem with debian watch file
<therm> is it able to recognize the version of a file in the middle of the url?
<therm> it is about: http://willuhn.de/products/jameica/releases/1.6/datasource/de_willuhn_ds.src.zip
<therm> so the version of the code is 1.6 but the file has no version
<therm> now uscan tells me http://pastebin.com/d10c0521
<therm> has anyone an idea?
<DktrKranz> therm, I don't think it's possible
<goshawk> therm: i had a similar issue
<goshawk> therm: wait
<DktrKranz> therm, you can workaround it in a different way, by parsing http://willuhn.de/products/jameica/download.php for instance
<goshawk> therm: http://pastebin.ca/1492570
<therm> ok thank you I will try
<therm> DktrKranz: Could you descripe it more detailed for me, what you mean by it?
<DktrKranz> therm, is link to de_willuhn_ds.src.zip archive referenced in a webpage?
<therm> goshawk: in your case the file did also have a version, mine has not. Or did I made a mistake: http://pastebin.com/m5781c43b
<therm> DktrKranz, the website you download it is: http://willuhn.de/products/jameica/download_ext.php but the real location is http://willuhn.de/products/jameica/releases/1.6/datasource/de_willuhn_ds.src.zip or what did you mean?
<DktrKranz> therm, thanks. I should be able to provide a working watch, now. I'll do some tests ;)
<therm> DktrKranz, no thanks to you ;-)
<DktrKranz> therm, http://pastebin.com/d6943d176
<therm> hey wonderful it works, big thanks to you!
<DktrKranz> therm, http://pastebin.com/d2a29d48f  improved version, so you  can fetch upstream archive too
<therm> DktrKranz, thanks it is uploading now
<therm> so is there maybe someone who wants to take a look after: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/willuhndatasource ?
<fabrice_sp> Hi. Any MOTU willing to have a look at Bug #337337 ? It's a candidate for an SRU. Thnaks!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337337 in mountmanager "mountmanager crashed with SIGSEGV in QGridLayout::rowCount()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337337
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, you chould use (LP: #xxxxxx, #yyyyyy, #zzzzzz) format instead
<fabrice_sp> DktrKranz, I have to say I didn't know it was possible :-)
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, just test. Run debuild -S -uc -us and check *_source.changes. If Launchpad-Bugs-Fixed line is populated by all of them, you did it right ;)
<fabrice_sp> great: I'll test right now :-)
<DktrKranz> also, mind uploading debdiff for jaunty too, so devfil can process it?
<fabrice_sp> DktrKranz, this is where I'm always lost: for a SRU, it should be fixed first in dev version. It could be at the same time?
<devfil> fabrice_sp, same time
<fabrice_sp> I'll post also a debdiff for jaunty-proposed
<fabrice_sp> ok
<DktrKranz> fabrice_sp, I fixed a rm -fr / command at the same time, I was in a little hurry that time ;)
<DktrKranz> (rm -fr / with root privs, of course)
<fabrice_sp> DktrKranz, it's understandable! :-)
<DktrKranz> package in question was slack, wasn't that funny? :)
<fabrice_sp> lol
<leifdk1978> hep
<quentusrex> Anyone awake?
<quentusrex> Anyone familiar with x509 certs?
<leifdk1978> sorry is new me self
<mzz> (hoping I'm only slightly in the wrong place...) where do bugs in ubuntu-dev-tools (mk-sbuild-lv) go?
<leifdk1978> just wondering if some on is the leader of the grafik programs
<mzz> (specifically it bails when it can't modprobe dm_snapshot, which is built in now apparently)
<ScottK> mzz: I think https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-dev-tools/+filebug will work.
<mzz> ScottK: tried that already: "Ubuntu Developer Tools does not use Launchpad as its bug tracker. "
<ScottK> Odd, since there are bugs there.
<ScottK> Then just file it against the Ubuntu package.
<mzz> ScottK: (and "Launchpad doesn't know what bug tracker Ubuntu Developer Tools uses")
<ScottK> mzz: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+filebug
<mzz> ok, I'll just do that then. Thanks!
<ScottK> quentusrex: Just ask your question.  Someone might answer.
<quentusrex> ScottK it's the same question as earlier... I have a problem with openldap and my x509 certificates.
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Well I know a fair amount about X.509 for mail related applications but nothing about LDAP.
<leifdk1978> any one in charge of blender
<Laney> nobody and everybody
<fabrice_sp> I love that answer :-D
<ScottK> It is both the curse and beauty of team maintenance.
<quentusrex> I've filed a bug about it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openldap/+bug/398366
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<quentusrex> ScottK I'm familiar with x509s as well, but I can't figure out why openldap can't handle my certs.
<quentusrex> when openvpn and everything can handle them.
<leifdk1978> ok if there is a mentor avalible i would love to help on media/grafik program package en merge
<ScottK> leifdk1978: Just ask your question and there's a reasonable chance someone will answer.
<leifdk1978> is there mentoring avalible for learning to pack and merge packages
<jpds> Yes.
<leifdk1978> ok nice
<Laney> merging blender with Debian's version is a nice task to undertake
<ScottK> especially since Laney is volunteering to help.
<leifdk1978> yeah and found other programs that need a minor update to
<Laney> I'll answer questions in channel, but of course
<leifdk1978> ok i just fiend the motu page and start reading those
<leifdk1978> hmmmm
<leifdk1978> Laney: is pbbuilder a good start
<Laney> yes you want to get pbuilder set up
<leifdk1978> ok
<Laney> I recommend you use pbuilder-dist from ubuntu-dev-tools
<leifdk1978> from apt
<Laney> sure
<leifdk1978> ok thanx
<quentusrex> scottK: know any way to find out why gnutls/openldap don't like my certs?
<leifdk1978> hmmmm is it 9,04 or jaunty
<fabrice_sp> devfil, DktrKranz I've updated the bug #337337 with both debdiff (for Karmic and Jaunty), and just subscribed motu-sru
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 337337 in mountmanager "mountmanager crashed with SIGSEGV in QGridLayout::rowCount()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/337337
<mr_spot_> can i get someone to review my new package, pulseaudio-mixer-applet? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pulseaudio-mixer-applet
<leifdk1978> hmmm
<fabrice_sp> mr_spot_, I have to go now, but I'll have a look after
<mr_spot_> fabrice_sp: thanks :)
<leifdk1978> :)
<leifdk1978> hmmmm now i  am looking on debain files to merge on ubuntu the blender files
<leifdk1978> Laney: is it the dcs file i need to merge debian to ubuntu
<rrittenhouse> Anybody know whats up with the ubuntu planet?
<rrittenhouse> No posts since the 9th :D
<Laney> are bash conditionals right associative?
<Laney> ie how is x && y || z parsed?
<therm> I would be glad if someone could revu my packages: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/swtcalendar (advocated 1x), http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/willuhndatasource , http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/h2database
<pochu> Laney:
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$ true && true || false; echo $?
<pochu> 0
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$ true && false || false; echo $?
<pochu> 1
<pochu> so that would be: (x && y) || z
<pochu> because of this:
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$ false && true || false; echo $?
<pochu> 1
<Laney> thanks
<pochu> err
<pochu> Laney: actually it's: x && (y || z)
<pochu> emilio@saturno:~$ true && true || false; echo $?
<pochu> 0
<pochu> bah, I can't think
<Laney> I just put the parens in explicitly :(
<Laney> now all I need is apt-get source=$upstream_version --tar-only to work
<coolbhavi> hello is the maintainer for universe now Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>/
<geser> yes
<hyperair> geser: seriously?
<geser> hyperair: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-May/028213.html
<coolbhavi> thanks geser
<hyperair> geser: seriously?,up
<geser> hyperair: the new update-maintainer script from u-d-t in karmic already implements it
<hyperair> geser: i see. i never knew it even existed =p
<coolbhavi> strange problem http://pastebin.com/m23761330 but look at this: http://pastebin.com/m46a52f41
<coolbhavi> it happens to me with some packages when  I download them off LP
<geser> coolbhavi: dscverify doesn't use your keyring by default (look inside the script to see how it calls gpg). Add DSCVERIFY_KEYRINGS="~/.gnupg/pubring.gpg" to your .devscripts
<geser> you can use dscverify on the .dsc file to check if it worked
<coolbhavi> okay geser thanks again
<fabrice_sp> coolbhavi, according to launchpad, version 0.4.4-0ubuntu1 has been signed by Thomas Jaeger
<fabrice_sp> this would explain why you don't have the right key
<coolbhavi> fabrice_sp, the package was uploaded and signed by nhandler while uploading
<fabrice_sp> oh, ok
<geser> fabrice_sp: changed-by is Thomas but signed-by is nathan (sponsored upload) [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/karmic-changes/2009-May/001342.html]
<fabrice_sp> thanks for the explanation, geser
<hyperair> do ubuntu buildds have internet connections?
<Laney> no
<hyperair> hmmmm
<hyperair> that means packaging microemu is going to be hell.
<hyperair> it uses maven2 for building, and it appears that maven2 likes to download things
<[Ramy]> can you point any python specific packaging tutorial ?
<pochu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
 * hyperair grumbles about maven2 
<[Ramy]> pochu, I have only .gz file format for the source code
<pochu> [Ramy]: .gz or .tar.gz ?
<[Ramy]> pochu, .gz and I have .bz2 but not .tar.gz or .tar.bz2
<pochu> [Ramy]: you can repack then
<AnAnt> Hello
<AnAnt> I got a question, why is Ubuntu's bzr-fastimport different (and even out-dated) from Ubuntu's bzr-fastimport ? Although the maintainer in both distro's is the same person ?
<pochu> did you mean Debian instead of Ubuntu somewhere?
<AnAnt> yup
<AnAnt> silly me !
<AnAnt> why is Ubuntu's bzr-fastimport different (and even out-dated) from Debian's bzr-fastimport ? Although the maintainer in both distro's is the same person ?
 * LarstiQ wagers a guess but first checks the packages
<Laney> AnAnt: why don't you ask the maintainer?
<pochu> who's the maintainer?
<pochu> they are not in sync
<AnAnt> jelmer
<AnAnt> he's on IRC now, but not responding
<LarstiQ> AnAnt: because jelmer is not an Ubuntu maintainer
<AnAnt> LarstiQ: are you refering to the fact that there is no maintainer person in Ubuntu ?
<pochu> I guess the package would need a sync
<AnAnt> LarstiQ: if you look at Ubuntu's bzr-fastimport changelog, you'll find that jelmer is the one who packaged it for Ubuntu (using an @ubuntu.com) address
<Laney> It could probably be synced, but I'd check to confirm.
<coolbhavi> AnAnt, yes but generally packages in ubuntu are maintained by a team
<coolbhavi> AnAnt, like MOTU/development team for universe/multiverse and core-dev team for main/restricted packages
<AnAnt> coolbhavi: yup I understand that
<AnAnt> ok, I think it does need to be sync'ed
<LarstiQ> AnAnt: yeah
<AnAnt> did someone ask for a sync request or shall I do so ?
<[Ramy]> pochu, there is no INSTALL file in my source, and it is not clear to me how did you figure out that terminator is using distutils ?
<pochu> [Ramy]: if it has a setup.py file, it uses distutils
<[Ramy]> pochu, it has setup.py :)
<[Ramy]> pochu,  should I use bsd instead of mit in the dh_make tool ?
<pochu> [Ramy]: use whatever upstream license is
<[Ramy]> pochu, dh_make give me this message "Copyright type "mit" is not gpl, lgpl, artistic or bsd"
<pochu> then use something else (or nothing) and later update debian/copyright
<AnAnt> ok, I submitted a sync-request for bzr-fastimport
<Laney> did you test it?
<AnAnt> Laney: you mean bzr-fastimport ?
<AnAnt> or were you talking to someone else /
<AnAnt> ?
<AnAnt> LP 398507
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 398507 in bzr-fastimport "Sync bzr-fastimport 0.8.0~bzr181-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)." [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/398507
<Laney> yes!
<AnAnt> Laney: yes, I tested it here
<AnAnt> Laney: actually I used git-bzr to test it
<AnAnt> that's my only use for bzr-fastimport
<Laney> ok
<[Ramy]> pochu, is grep -B 3 -A 3 import * in the source code directory ?
<pochu> [Ramy]: yeah
<pochu> that is so that you can see whether an import is optional or not...
<pochu> e.g. you would catch
<pochu> try:
<pochu>     import foo
<pochu> except:
<pochu>    pass # it's optional
<[Ramy]> pochu, what I can see that there are imports for setuptools, glob,os,platform,re,sys
<pochu> glob, os, re, sys are all core modules
<pochu> setuptools isn't
<pochu> (I think)
<pochu> core modules are shipped with Python, so you don't need additional dependencies
<[Ramy]> pochu, yeah, setuptools is in python-setuptools
<pochu> [Ramy]: so if it's required, you will need it in Depends
<pochu> [Ramy]: unless it's required only for the build (e.g. it's imported in setup.py), in which case you need it in Build-Depends
<pochu> [Ramy]: in the case that you have e.g.:
<pochu> try:
<pochu>     import foo
<pochu> except:
<pochu>    import bar
<pochu> you could have a Depends: python-foo | python-bar
<pochu> btw there's #debian-python on OFTC, good channel for python packaging questions :)
 * hyperair grumbles about his isp being stupid about alioth connections again
<[Ramy]> pochu, what is OFTC ?
<[Ramy]> pochu, is this output ok ? http://paste.ubuntu.com/216389/
<hyperair> irc.oftc.net.
<hyperair> it's an irc server
<pochu> [Ramy]: you need to install the build dependencies
<[Ramy]> pochu, in XS-Python-Version is there a keyword names 'all' ?
<pochu> you should put >= $minimun_version
<pochu> iirc
<[Ramy]> pochu, it works :-D
<pochu> [Ramy]: cool :)
<[Ramy]> pochu, I am trying now to upload the package to launchpad. Where can I find sources.changes package ?
<nhandler> [Ramy]: You get that from building the source package: debuild -S
<[Ramy]> nhandler, I imported my gpg key to launchpad but I still get this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/216405/
<hyperair> [Ramy]: run debsign with debsign -k <key id>
<nhandler> Or just pass the -k option to debuild
<hyperair> oh yeah debuild
<nhandler> [Ramy]: It also looks like your .orig.tar.gz is missing
<hyperair> or add an identity to your GPG key that matches "Ramy Eid <rmyeid@gmail.com>" exactly.
<hyperair> the version number looks like a git commit hash O_O
<[Ramy]> hyperair, it is
<hyperair> [Ramy]: you should prepend some stuff to it.
<hyperair> [Ramy]: e.g. git<date>.r1.<hash>
<hyperair> this is to make sure that when you upload a newer version, it will definitely be a bigger version
<[Ramy]> hyperair, I just want to make it working the first time so I can improve it later. now, I am confused in the packaging folder I have many new folders and I am not sure what to do
<hyperair> [Ramy]: many new folders?
<hyperair> could you name them?
<hyperair> the only new folder you should be having is debian/
<[Ramy]> hyperair, http://paste.ubuntu.com/216413/
<hyperair> [Ramy]: basically debian/ is your packaging folder, and the rest is upstream
<hyperair> [Ramy]: also your orig.tar.gz is named wrongly. it should be bpython_<hash>.orig.tar.gz
<hyperair> note the underscore as opposed to the dash
<[Ramy]> hyperair, I get this error http://paste.ubuntu.com/216418/
<hyperair> [Ramy]: it's not signed.
<hyperair> [Ramy]: you need to run debsign on the .changes file
<hyperair> debsign -k <gpg key id> bpython_<version>_source.changes
<hyperair> or when you run debuild, run it with -k <gpg key id>
<[Ramy]> hyperair, http://paste.ubuntu.com/216423/
<hyperair> well that's what it says
<hyperair> you don't have a secret key for that key id =\
<hyperair> which means you didn't generate the key properly
<hyperair> or something of that sort
<[Ramy]> hyperair,  how can I fix that ?
<hyperair> [Ramy]: generate another key, use it?
<Zhenech> hyperair, just a short note, didnt have time for geany stuff yet, but I think next week I should find some gap for you :)
<hyperair> Zhenech: sure. you received my email about geany-plugins-0.17?
<Zhenech> yupp
<hyperair> okay =)
 * hyperair never knew that Zhenech was Evgeni until a whois lookup a few seconds ago
<Zhenech> :)
<hyperair> :)
 * Zhenech does not say much in here
<hyperair> 18 lines since the beginning of my irssi log
<Zhenech> guess that counts as not many :)
<hyperair> ...aha! you're the guy in #debian-xfce! the one i was talking to about xfce4-notify
<hyperair> i knew i saw your nick somewhere
<Zhenech> *shrug* maybe :)
<hyperair> my logs say so =O
<hyperair> it was the tiem when banshee was spitting flames with xfce's notification daemon
<Zhenech> the crash in that one funky c# media player, rigt?
<hyperair> yep
<Zhenech> aye, I remember
<hyperair> haha
<[Ramy]> hyperair, I made new gpg key and i get the same error !
<hyperair> [Ramy]: could you paste the output of this command: gpg --list-secret-keys
<[Ramy]> hyperair, http://paste.ubuntu.com/216429/
<hyperair> [Ramy]: debsign -k D92F7084
<hyperair> oh wait you tried that already
<hyperair> huh how strange.
<hyperair> [Ramy]: what does it say when you try running the command gpg --clearsign?
<[Ramy]> hyperair, http://paste.ubuntu.com/216434/
<[Ramy]> hyperair, i entered the passphrase and nothing after that it is hanging
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> hmmmmm
<hyperair> well of course it is hanging
<hyperair> it's waiting for your input =p
<hyperair> type something in
<hyperair> then type ^D
<hyperair> ^D = Ctrl+D
<hyperair> well anyway
<hyperair> did you try -kA0E46752
<hyperair> with debsign i mean
<[Ramy]> hyperair, yeah, I tried that
<hyperair> and it didn't work eiter hu -=
<hyperair> how strange
<[Ramy]> hyperair, pochu thanks very much  for the support, I will try later to sign the package even it is never worked :(
<hyperair> =\
<RoAkSoAx> who's an expert in python packaging?
<ScottK> POX
<RoAkSoAx> thanks ScottK
<RoAkSoAx> POX, ping
<POX> RoAkSoAx: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I am around.
<ashbringer> Can anyone clarify the "Modify pool structure to include more packages" section of the InstallCD Customization guide (here: <https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization#Modify%20pool%20structure%20to%20include%20more%20packages>)? Specifically, do following the relevant instructions get the packages selected automatically? I'm sort of new to this, and unsure if I'm asking {the right questions,in the right place}, so any help is apprecia
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, you also do python packaging right??
<ScottK> Yes
 * Nafallo is tempted to !ask ;-)
<RoAkSoAx> Ok here is the thing: I've merged python-pcapy: Bug #398012
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 398012 in pcapy "Please merge pcapy 0.10.6-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/398012
<RoAkSoAx> However it is failing to build: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/28940415/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-amd64.pcapy_0.10.6-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<RoAkSoAx> the only change in Ubuntu was the addition of export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove in debian/rules. In Jaunty, it installed the module in python2.6/dist-packages... however, in Karmic is not doing so, and it's trying to install it on python2.6/site-packages and that's why it seems to be FTBFS
<RoAkSoAx> (I also have to say that when I builded in in my pbuilder and PPA the package builded)
<RoAkSoAx> now, by removing export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove from debian/rules, it will actually install the module in python2.6/dist-packages
<RoAkSoAx> so, I was wondering, why is this different? (And I think this means that I'll have to summit the patch to fix this)
<RoAkSoAx> s/summit/submit
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Does it use CDBS?
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, yes it does.
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: We now have a patch it CDBS that magically adds layout-style=deb for all Python packages.  This is great for some packages that didn't work before.  For some that had already made changes for the dist-packages stuff the result is less fortunate.
<ScottK> Debian CDBS does not have this change.
<ScottK> I suspect this is why you are seeing the different resuilt.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, right. Well I've tested it removing export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove and I have obtained what I believe is the expected result: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/216500/
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, so, should I just go ahead and submit the patch removing 'export DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove' from debian/rules?
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Sounds reasonable to me.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, Ok then. however, the difference between the Jaunty package and the Karmic package if I do remove the variable would be that it will leave 'pcapy-0.10.6.egg-info' in '/usr/share/pyshared/' instead of putting it in python2.6/dist-packages and python2.5/site-packages
<ScottK> I think pyshared is the right place for that, but I don't promis that's correct.
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK, Ok cool. I do think is the right place for it also, since both files contain the same info and besides, Debian package has that file in pyshared too. Thanks a lot for your help :)
<ScottK> RoAkSoAx: No problem.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-12
<shadeslayer> maxwellian: hehe.. i have a 40 GB / thats 13 GB used :
<maxwellian> shadeslayer: Me too, I think 40 gig.  I pretty much screwed my Windows partition when I installed Ubuntu, it runs out of disk all the time. :P
<maxwellian> shadeslayer: Serves it right.
<shadeslayer> maxwellian: true :D
<maxwellian> tumbleweed: Sorry, just to be sure, are you saying most of the savings are gained through a cache?
<tumbleweed> maxwellian: no, I'm saying you can save some bandwidth with a proxy. But for the ocassional pbuildering it's possibly not worth it
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: bug 603831
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603831 in fprint-demo (Ubuntu) "Please Merge fprint-demo from debian" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603831
<shadeslayer> i dont understand what you mean
<shadeslayer> did  debian release a new version?
<shadeslayer> nope..
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: bug 604102 , rbot can be syncd
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 604102 in rbot (Ubuntu) "Please merge rbot 0.9.15+post20100705+gitb3aa806 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604102
<micahg> shadeslayer: you should change the merge bug to a sync bug then
<shadeslayer> micahg: hmm ok
<shadeslayer> micahg: done
<shadeslayer> build log is attached
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: re fprint-demo: you attached an ubuntu to ubuntu diff. Where's the debian to ubuntu diff
<shadeslayer> meh.. how did i not see that :S
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: re rbot: when you have dealt with a reviewers comments, you should set the bug back to new/confirmed and re-subscribe sponsors. (no need to do that now, because I'm looking at it)
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: oh.. i didnt know
<tumbleweed> also, for sync bugs, it helps if you have set a public e-mail address in launchpad, then the ack-sync tool can automatically use it.
<shadeslayer> hmm
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: i can set it now
<tumbleweed> thanks
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: i just have to unselect Hide my email addresses from other Launchpad users , right?
<tumbleweed> yes
<shadeslayer> done
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: thanks :)
<shadeslayer> uh.. it failed 0_o
<shadeslayer> how come it built in pbuilder and failed in buildd
<shadeslayer> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/51750280/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.rbot_0.9.15%2Bpost20100705%2Bgitb3aa806-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz << if anyone can tell me why it failed
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: read the buildlog, it explains. I'm off ot bed
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: i am reading it...
<shadeslayer> tumbleweed: thanks anyways
 * shadeslayer is not sure what the error means
<shadeslayer> anyone else around to help? :)
<shadeslayer> brr... im off to sleep as well
<micahg> shadeslayer: empty translations files?
<DaVinci> hello
<YokoZar> hmm, why did imagemagick disappear from maverick archive...
<micahg> YokoZar: looks like it's there
<jmarsden> YokoZar: rmadison -s maverick imagemagick says: imagemagick | 7:6.6.2.6-1 |      maverick | source, amd64, i386
<YokoZar> micahg: jmarsden: so why does http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=imagemagick  not show any results for maverick?
<micahg> YokoZar: it probably doesn't show any results for anything in maverick
<YokoZar> ahh ok
<YokoZar> it has a maverick search box though ;)
<micahg> YokoZar: yeah, that site's been having issues, it's known though
<dholbach> good morning
<bilalakhtar> Someone, please help me with http://launchpadlibrarian.net/51744908/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.krename_4.0.4-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<bilalakhtar> Someone, please help me with http://launchpadlibrarian.net/51744908/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.krename_4.0.4-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<bilalakhtar> sebner: you there?
<Rhonda> Server is too old for streaming pull, reconnecting.  (Upgrade the server to Bazaar 1.2 to avoid this)
<sebner> bilalakhtar: just entered, yes
<Rhonda> I get this message when I do a bzr checkout of the planet-ubuntu config.
<bilalakhtar> sebner: please help me with http://launchpadlibrarian.net/51744908/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.krename_4.0.4-2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<sebner> bilalakhtar: I'm no kde guy but either you have a wrong versioning in your controls file or the kde libs are currently b0rken in the archibe
<sebner> *archive
<bilalakhtar> sebner: ok, I will push the package to my PPA for another test build.
<Laney> bilalakhtar: why don't you try asking in
<Laney> ...in #kubuntu-devel?
<Laney> in general if someone doesn't answer it means that nobody knows
<sebner> huu Laney :)
<Laney> alright boss
<bilalakhtar> Laney: thanks
<Rhonda> cjwatson: Any news on the packages site? Just curious, not pushing.
<Rhonda> â¦ or any other canonical employee who could take a look for me in the internal RT?
<cjwatson> Rhonda: I haven't heard anything
<Rhonda> Ah, alright. It sounded a bit like that elmo would take a look last time we spoke. But I can understand that he tries to contact Frank first.
<SpamapS> So, the CEPH project produces their own userspace tool .deb's and debian source packages.. debian doesn't have them yet though (there's an ITP but its gone a bit stale). Since upstream produces debs.. can Universe take those directly until Debian gets the packages?
<ripps> Can someone help me get my wacom-dkms package into ubuntu. It doesn't seem the kernel is going to fix the broken bamboo ctl-460 (and other new models) anytime soon. I have a working packages for lucid and maverick in my ppa:ripps818/wacom. I have the current version of my package uploaded to REVU
<ripps> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wacom-source
<shadeslayer> micahg: how come it builds on my pbuilder then 0_o
<shadeslayer> ScottK: poke
<shadeslayer> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/51750280/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.rbot_0.9.15%2Bpost20100705%2Bgitb3aa806-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<ScottK> Looking
<shadeslayer> ScottK: thanks :D
<shadeslayer> <micahg> shadeslayer: empty translations files? << thats what micahg said
<ScottK> Yep.
<ScottK> Figure out why that's happening.
<shadeslayer> ScottK: but why does it build in pbuilder then?
<shadeslayer> and it does seem the file is empty
<EzraR> anyone want to review a package on REVU? It has one advocation already and I have fixed the remaining problems.
<EzraR> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mangler
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Because your pbuilder chroot doesn't have pkgbinarymangler installed.
<ScottK> That's on the buildds, but not part of the standard install
<shadeslayer> hmm
<geser> shadeslayer: because you don't pkgbinarymangler installed (and enabled) in your pbuilder
<shadeslayer> geser: yeah ScottK mentioned that...
<shadeslayer> geser: altho i dont understand the concept of pkgbinarymangler
<shadeslayer> !pkgbinarymangler
<shadeslayer> :S
<geser> !info pkgbinarymangler
<ubottu> pkgbinarymangler (source: pkgbinarymangler): strips translations and alters maintainers during build. In component main, is extra. Version 69 (lucid), package size 17 kB, installed size 128 kB
<shadeslayer> geser: hmm.. so that translations go into another package?\
<geser> not exactly, they got put into an own tar which then somehow into LP (rosetta), but I don't know the details
<dpm> shadeslayer, geser -> here are the details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TranslationLifecycle
<dpm> basically, pkgbinarymangler extracts translations from a package, puts them in a tarball and imports them into Launchpad. Then these are exposed to translators at translations.lp.net/ubuntu to complete or change. Their translations are periodically exported from Launchpad in a big tarball containing all translations, which is fed to the langpack-o-matic script, which ultimately produces a set of language pack packages, which contain the transaltions
<hyperair> is there a way i can glob files in python?
<hyperair> like the equivalent of for file in *someglobpattern*; do something_with_$file; done
<danohuiginn> hyperair: http://docs.python.org/library/glob.html
<hyperair> aha, thanks.
<Laney> hyperair: porting git-archive-all?
<hyperair> Laney: *sigh* yea.
<Laney> you get all the fun :)
<hyperair> Laney: it's easy enough to do half-baked support for submodules, but proper support for submodules needs recursion.
<hyperair> hmm maybe i'll just work around it.
<Laney> what's wrong with that?
<Laney> just recursively archive-all the submodules
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek starting in 12 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<shadeslayer> anyone around to help me with rbot ?
<shadeslayer> im stuck with the fact that one of the translations is empty :p
<geser> still the same problem or a new one?
<geser> the .pot files, right?
<shadeslayer> geser: same problem,but i was thinking that i could use the current git checkout and use that translation as a patch
<shadeslayer> geser: yes
<shadeslayer> meh.. its empty in git too
<shadeslayer> geser: ^
<shadeslayer> geser: seems some translations are empty...
<geser> add "find -empty -name '*.pot' -delete" to the clean target to make pkgstriptranslations happy
<shadeslayer> geser: ok.. and the new version would be 1ubuntu1 right?
<geser> yes
<shadeslayer> geser: and i guess testing in pbuilder is useless :P
<geser> no, install pkgbinarymangler inside your pbuilder (and enable it) and you can reproduce the problem in your pbuilder
<shadeslayer> geser: how do i enable it in pbuilder?
<geser> "pbuilder login --save-after-login"; "apt-get install pkgbinarymangler"; edit "/etc/pkgbinarymangler/stripstranslations.conf" (the file is inside the pbuilder) and set 'enable: true'
<geser> and while you are it you could check if "/etc/pkgbinarymangler/santitychecks.conf" is also enabled (enable: true). Don't remember if it's enabled by default or if I changed it.
<geser> and if you want that your pbuilder also creates .ddebs install "pkg-create-dbgsym" too
<shadeslayer> geser: delta debs?
<geser> debug debs, those with the debug symbols
<shadeslayer> ok
<shadeslayer> geser: i see a control.in file.. is that required?
<geser> no, some packages generate the control file from a template (control.in)
<shadeslayer> geser: so i can remove it?
<geser> I don't know if the package really needs it in this case, but it creates an unnecessary delta if you remove it
<shadeslayer> yeah.. ill leave it as such then
<shadeslayer> geser: http://pastebin.com/JKKJL9C8
<geser> but you got a source package?
<shadeslayer> yes
<shadeslayer> geser: i guess thats the work of the clean rule i added
<geser> yes, and you can ignore those warnings
<MTecknology> What's the right way to install a file to /etc/default/ just install -f my_file /etc/default/ in rules ?
<geser> shadeslayer: it because the file deletion can be stored in the .debian.tar.gz but that is no problem here as we remove them on every clean call
<geser> MTecknology: IIRC yes
<MTecknology> geser: thanks
<shadeslayer> geser: still fails :P
<shadeslayer> this time at rbot-fortune.po
<geser> then remove empty .po files too
<tumbleweed> MTecknology, geser: dh_installinit will install debian/packagename.default appropriately
<shadeslayer> geser: didnt the clean part do that?
<geser> shadeslayer: if you look at the find call, you will notice that it only delete empty files matching "*.pot"
<shadeslayer> ohh
<MTecknology> tumbleweed: thanks
<shadeslayer> geser: http://pastebin.com/vqL3MfZC
<geser> shadeslayer: what exactly did you change in debian/rules?
<shadeslayer> geser: i added find -empty -name '*.pot *.po' -delete in the clean part
<shadeslayer> geser: http://pastebin.com/W6eb0DBt
<shadeslayer> now come to think of it.. i should just to *.po*
<geser> yeah, that would work
<shadeslayer> geser: seems to work now
<geser> shadeslayer: or "find . -empty \( -name '*.pot' -o -name '*.po' \) -delete" if you only want to match those two cases
 * shadeslayer has to learn regexp
<geser> and the syntax of find
<shadeslayer> geser: regex first since im using it in ruby as well
<shadeslayer> :P
<shadeslayer> geser: your rule seems to work too
<ryanakca> How can I force something into /usr/local ? dh_usrlocal seems to insist on trying to clobber everything I try to put there.... (It's a work related package with hardcoded paths to /usr/local ... )
<shadeslayer> geser: redy to sponsor? :D
<geser> yes
<shadeslayer> *ready
<shadeslayer> geser: want me to pastebin debdiff?
<geser> yes, that's enough
<shadeslayer> geser: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=kSSXnjhs
<shadeslayer> geser: thanks for telling me how to do it right ;)
<carstenh> ryanakca: by using override_dh_whatever, see man 1 dh - alternatively you could use the more verbose debian/rules variant (examples are in /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples)
<ryanakca> carstenh: Thanks
<geser> shadeslayer: uploaded
<shadeslayer> geser: thanks :D
<ryanakca> carstenh: Hmm... now dpkg-deb quits because of files in /usr/local :/ Would it be easier just to 's@/usr/local@/usr@g' in the files that match /usr/local ?
<carstenh> ryanakca: weird, "$ grep usr/local *" in dpkg.git/dpkg-deb/ returns nothing
<ryanakca> sorry, dh_builddeb
<carstenh> ryanakca: if you can adapt the hardcoded paths faster than you could convince dpkg-deb to install files to usr/local you should probably just do it ;)
<carstenh> grep local =dh_builddeb returns nothing too
<carstenh> (zsh, not bash)
<ryanakca> Hmm... odd.  sed it is.
<carstenh> ryanakca: ok, so you either spend this evening with finding the error or you use a workaround (fixing the hardcoded paths) and get time to drink a beer ... your choice
<shadeslayer> geser: i think something is wrong with the builder :P
<shadeslayer> its building since 20 mins :D
<shadeslayer> and its not that huge a package
<shadeslayer> gahhhhhh
<geser> damn pastebin :(
<shadeslayer> geser: :S
<shadeslayer> geser: i gave you raw output :S
<shadeslayer> geser: you wget'd the link?
<geser> yes
<shadeslayer> that explains it
<shadeslayer> :P
<geser> I looked over the debdiff before signing and uploading but missed it
<geser> 2nd try :)
<geser> micahg: Hi, as I hope that you are much more familiar with xul-ext-* packages than me: do you know if we should keep weave (binary: xul-ext-sync) in the archive or remove it again? (regarding the mozilla extension policy)
<micahg> geser: was it accidentally sync'd?
<micahg> geser: it'll probably be integrated into either Firefox 4 or Firefox 4.1
 * micahg forgets if there are binary components in it
<geser> micahg: sort of, it's a new package
<geser> it got synced together with the other new packages as it isn't (yet) on the sync blacklist
<geser> shadeslayer: rbot: Successfully built
<shadeslayer> geser: whee
<shadeslayer> geser: ++
<micahg> geser: I'm torn, since it's arch specific, I think it should be in, but on the other hand, they plan on integrating it
<micahg> chrisccoulson: what do you think about weave ^^^
<micahg> geser: I'd say let's take it for the moment and we can review before beta freeze
<geser> micahg: ok, it FTBFS too
<micahg> geser: heh, I'll need to file a bug to add it to my package set
<tumbleweed> shadeslayer: I'm glad to hear that :)
<ari-tczew> porthose: thanks for sponsoring
<porthose> :)
<ari-tczew> porthose: do you want take next?
<porthose> ari-tczew, sorry busy with one of my upstream, leave me a bug number and I will look later
<ari-tczew> porthose: hmm, ok, so in this case I'm going to ask tumbleweed to sponsor: bug 604235
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 604235 in xmp (Ubuntu) "Merge xmp 3.2.0-0.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/604235
<tumbleweed> looks like I'm doing too much sponsorship then... :)
<porthose> tumbleweed, are you going to look at xmp?
<porthose> tumbleweed, if not, I will :)
<tumbleweed> porthose: I will
<porthose> tumbleweed, k
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: please don't close the lp merge bug on the same line as "Add PulseAudio support". It makes it look like that bug was the original bug adding this support
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: could you move up LP: ?
<tumbleweed> of course
<tumbleweed> ari-tczew: besides that, looks good. building
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: thanks!
<tumbleweed> garr, I keep forgetting -sa tonight
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed: done 7 sponsorships for me
<Laney> I saw some stats on how many packages are synced, merged, packaged separately, ... â does anyone know where these are?
<Laney> think it was a graph
<geser> the ones on MoM?
<Laney> maybe. /me looks
<Laney> ah I like that, thanks geser
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-13
<EzraR> what package would the default sudoers file be in?
<EzraR> or better yet what is the command that will tell me?
<EzraR> dpkg-query -S sudoers
<EzraR> nm...
<sbeattie> EzraR: it's created in sudo's postinst script; you can see it in /var/lib/dpkg/info/sudo.postinst
<EzraR> thnx
<fabrice_sp> hi porthose are you processing the sponsor queue?
<porthose> fabrice_sp, was actual fix to head to bed
<fabrice_sp> porthose, ok:_ just ot know as I was beginning to look at a sync that you ack, so I just wanted to know if 2 people werer processing the queue to be more carefull :-)
<fabrice_sp> have a good night then ;-)
<porthose> fabrice_sp, you to :)
<micahg> LucidFox: maybe ask fabrice_sp if you want a second opinion
<fabrice_sp> I just woke up ;-)
<micahg> fabrice_sp: don't worry, easy Q
<LucidFox> hello fabrice_np
<fabrice_sp> ?
<fabrice_sp> hello :-)
<LucidFox> I have a question!
<fabrice_sp> I just woke up so I may be slow :-)
<LucidFox> Right now Maverick has pinta 0.3-2ubuntu1, the Ubuntu changes were merged upstream, so we were just going to sync 0.4+dsfg-1 from DEbian
<fabrice_sp> sounds the right thing to do
<LucidFox> But now I discovered a new grave bug, and while discarding the old Ubuntu changes, I'm going to upload -1ubuntu1 with a new patch
<LucidFox> Should I keep the changelog entry from -2ubuntu1?
<fabrice_sp> I did the same some time ago, and kept it
<fabrice_sp> but I added in the last entry: Merge with Debian. Nochanges left
<fabrice_sp> and added my entry
<fabrice_sp> but I think it's more a question of taste
<fabrice_sp> as actually, requesting the sync would have deleted them
<LucidFox> Great, for some reason none of the patches from git apply, even though the code is exactly the same :(
<LucidFox> guess I'll have to apply them manually
<fabrice_sp> strange
<fabrice_sp> I may be because of debsrc3.0?
<LucidFox> *facepalm* I'm stupid
<LucidFox> I was trying to apply them not from the source directory, but from the one above
<fabrice_sp> it's a common error :-)
<fabrice_sp> I usually do it when a debdiff comes from bzr as it has to be applied as p0, and not p1
<LucidFox> :)
<LucidFox> +		// This function should not be public! It is only like this to minimize the diff.
<LucidFox> +		// It should be changed to protected in upstream git here and in all derived classes.
<dholbach> good morning
<somethinginteres> I'm fixing a bug here (needs to be submitted to debian so I am following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cheese/+bug/604636 I just want to check that the correct way to get the source for submitting to debian is 'apt-get source cheese' b/c I am getting this output in terminal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/462834/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 604636 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Description: Cheese is too "cheesy"!" [Low,Confirmed]
<somethinginteres> I orginally downloaded the source from bzr but when I used 'submittodebian' it complained about no 'orig.tar.gz' so I checked the wiki and saw they say to use apt-get souece
<dholbach> if you run    bzr bd -- -S -us -uc    it should get you the orig.tar.gz
<dholbach> but apt-get source cheese should work too
<somethinginteres> dholbach: thanks. I assume that the version I am wanting is the mavrick one b/c that is 'active development' but when I ran dch -i it had 'lucid' written for my changes and mavrick for everyone elses but I did bzr brach the active development tree (hope this makes sense)
<dholbach> somethinginteres: are you still running lucid?
<somethinginteres> dholbach, yeah I am atm
<dholbach> yeah, that explains it
<dholbach> just branching off   lp:ubuntu/<package>  should give you the latest
<somethinginteres> yeah I did umm lp:ubuntu/cheese and edited the required files but if I submit my fixes is that going to get to mavrick as well or will it only fix for lucid I just want to make sure I am fixing the right then :)
<somethinginteres> * thing
<dholbach> somethinginteres: once you're done and documented your changes, run debcommit, then bzr push lp:~<your ID>/ubuntu/maverick/<package>/<some branch name>
<dholbach> then bzr lp-open and click on "propose for merging"
<somethinginteres> dholbach, I would do that but last time I pushed to a branch and did a merge proposal I was asked to instead send it to debian
<dholbach> ok
<dholbach> maybe this helps: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/WorkingWithPatches
<dholbach> (if you need to decide when to upstream something)
<somethinginteres> dholbach, it's going to be upstream then b/c the bug is the software centre description
<dholbach> aha, so in that case it'd go to debian, right
<somethinginteres> Mmm.  I just wanted to confirm I was not fixing an outdated package using apt-get source or or bzr bd or whatever, but if that is OK and will give me the correct stuff then I'm good to go
<dholbach> yep
<somethinginteres> could you just explain the bzr bd -- -S -us -uc command for me?
<somethinginteres> I've not used that before :) *n00b*
<dholbach> "bzr bd -- -S -us -uc" creates a source package (.orig.tar.gz, .dsc, .diff.gz) from the branch
<dholbach> it passes -S -us -uc to debuild
<dholbach> it's basically because we're living in two worlds right now: branches, building from branches, etc. on the one side and source packages, patches, etc. on the other side
<dholbach> that's why we have to deal with stuff like that right now
<somethinginteres> ah right.. so I run that command to pull down the source from the branch.. make my changes and submit
<dholbach> it will use the latest code in your local branch, then get the tarbal from some location, then generate the .diff.gz (with your changes) and then the .dsc file
<somethinginteres> oh ok so I still run bzr branch blahblah first make changes then run that command - right, i'm with you
<dholbach> let me know how it goes :)
<somethinginteres> will do - thanks, good class yesterday btw :)
<dholbach> thanks a bunch :)
<bilalakhtar> dholbach: I have a help request. Could you please examine why https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/krename/4.0.4-2ubuntu1/+build/1864396 is repeatedly failing?
<bilalakhtar> It is working for other architectures, including both amd64 and i386
<dholbach> did you ask the kubuntu folks if they have an idea? or maybe ask in #ubuntu-mobile too, if it's just arm failing
<bilalakhtar> dholbach: ok, will ask kubuntu-devel fist
<dholbach> good luck
<bilalakhtar>  /join #kubuntu-devel
<bilalakhtar> sorry ^^ typo
<bilalakhtar> .join #kubuntu-devel
<bilalakhtar> ARGH!
<Rhonda> Hmm. There's something fishy with planet.ubuntu. It plants the ubuntu logo into my feed reader and I have no clue where it takes the icon from. It definitely isn't favicon nor is it referenced in the rss file.
<Rhonda> â¦ and the feedback link at the end of the planet page yields an 404 not found error
<somethinginteres> blast! http://paste.ubuntu.com/462883/
<Rhonda> somethinginteres: Missing build-depends on cdbs?
<somethinginteres> Rhonda: probably.. how do I get that?
<Rhonda> Take a look at debian/control.
<Rhonda> The gimp package in the pool though has that Build-Depends.
<Rhonda> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/cdbs
<Rhonda> bleah, wrong link :)
<Rhonda> http://packages.ubuntu.com/source/lucid/gimp of course#
<Rhonda> highvoltage: Why used you the link for my blog entry from planet.debian instead of from planet.ubuntu? They differ, and the one on planet.ubuntu is the more "correct" one that I prefer. :)
<somethinginteres> Rhonda, installing cdbs now :)
<Rhonda> somethinginteres: Actually I thought debuild does complain about not installed Build-Depends â¦
<Rhonda> highvoltage: Also, at least for me it wasn't related to Zack's talk. It is spinning around in my head at least since I wrote this: http://rhonda.deb.at/blog/debian/2009/10/16 - note the date. ;)
<somethinginteres> 'dpkg-source: error: syntax error in gimp-2.6.8/debian/control at line 45: line with unknown format (not field-colon-value)' that's the line with the description for GiMP that I just changed
<Rhonda> How did you change it?
<somethinginteres> just replaced  the old description with the one suggested at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gimp/+bug/599785 using gedit
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 599785 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Gimp's description is too confusing" [Low,Triaged]
<sebner> Rhonda: ohh, I'm pretty late. congrats for being MOTU now
<Rhonda> somethinginteres: Did you try to forward that to Ari from Debian for fixing it in there?
<somethinginteres> Rhonda, no I haven't.
<Rhonda> somethinginteres: But I think you might have b0rked the spacing. Please notice that the Description: line shouldn't have any space infront of it, the long description after there though (the rest of the description) has to be indented by one space.
<Rhonda> somethinginteres: It might make sense to coordinate that update with the Debian packager to not create a workload for future updates in case the description gets changed in Debian resulting in merge conflicts and the likes.
<somethinginteres> Ok then how would I best notify him of the proposed change? Link him to the LP report or..?
<Rhonda> somethinginteres: There is some wiki page on how to forward patches. First, generate one that works and doesn't give you that error ;)  Then let someone dig out the BTS howto for you.
<Rhonda> somethinginteres: And make sure to join Laney's and my talk this evening on exactly this topic. :P
<somethinginteres> Rhonda, I plan to, thanks :)
<Rhonda> somethinginteres: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Bugs is a good entry point
<Rhonda> And https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Usertagging
<ripps> Any MOTU's here willing to checkout my wacom-source package on REVU. It creates a wacom-dkms package that builds a new wacom kernel module, something desperately needed for anybody using any of the new Wacom Bamboo models, as they don't work on Ubuntu Lucid/Maverick with it.
<ripps> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wacom-source
<highvoltage> Rhonda: still around?
<Rhonda> Sure. :)
<highvoltage> Rhonda: your link from planet ubuntu and planet debian look the same to me
<Rhonda> Uh?
<Rhonda> highvoltage: http://rhonda.deb.at/blog/2010/07/12#motu.en is from planet ubuntu
<Rhonda> http://alfie.ist.org/blog/2010/07/12#motu.en is from planet debian
<highvoltage> ah, when I copied and pasted they looked the same (updated now)
<ripps> Any MOTU's here willing to checkout my wacom-source package on REVU. It creates a wacom-dkms package that builds a new wacom kernel module, something desperately needed for anybody using any of the new Wacom Bamboo models, as they don't work on Ubuntu Lucid/Maverick with it.
<ripps> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wacom-source
<Rhonda> ripps: For a start, the patches don't have the meta header information (author, description, ...).
<ripps> I can fix that, but I was under the impression that was mostly optional.
<Rhonda> Second, the package doesn't have any long description, at all.
<Rhonda> It is optional in the way that you would need a very good reason to leave it out. ;)
<Rhonda> You wrote "is licensed under the GPL, see `/usr/share/common-licenses/GPL'."
<Rhonda> Please be more specific than that, include GPL version you want to have it covered under, potential including the "or later" part.
<Rhonda> Also you don't mention /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2 for the upstream copyright.
<Rhonda> The debian/install file looks weird.  A * wildcard and an additional file?
<Rhonda> Ah, because that's debian/*, scratch that last remark. :)
<Rhonda> Hmm, I probably should put that into the comment box instead of here. %-)
<Rhonda> And I think REVU has issues with source format 3.0, is that possible?
<Rhonda> "Warning! This package could not be extracted; there's no browsable directory for it on REVU."
<geser> Rhonda: yes, REVU doesn't support v3 src packages
<Rhonda> sebner: Thanks btw. :)
<sebner> Rhonda: haha, better late than never :P
<ripps> Rhonda: okay, I'm uploading an updated package now.
<ripps> Rhonda: hmm.. patch headers weren't exactly dep-3 compliant. updloading a version with better fields
<ripps> Rhonda: see anything else wrong with the package?
<Rhonda> ripps: I'm not familiar with dkms, and neither with cdbs. People discourage usage of cdbs magic these days.
<ripps> Rhonda: yeah, but I couldn't get dkms to work with dh7
<shadeslayer> oh.. you already got hold of Rhonda :P
<Rhonda> shadeslayer: I'm out of the boat now. I just didn't want to get ripps depressed because he asked three times within 24 hours without any response.
<shadeslayer> Rhonda: hehe :D
<ripps> Things on REVU have a habit of getting ignored. I'm trying to be a little more forceful with this because alot of users need this fix.
<Rhonda> Out of curiosity, why isn't this in Debian at all?
<ripps> I don't know, I haven't found a bug report with a similar problem in Debian. If there was, I would just try to get this into Debian.
<ripps> Maybe nobody in Debian uses Wacom Bamboo Pen/Touches
<Rhonda> It doesn't work with xserver-xorg-input-wacom?
<Rhonda> Ah, wait, that's only the input driver - the kernel is the issue here, right?
<ripps> ype
<ripps> yep
<geser> Rhonda: IIRC, yes. A friend has this device and he got problems to run it with Debian.
<ripps> geser: he should have filed a bug report
<ripps> the current method recommended is to compile a new module manually: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/wacom-bamboo-ctl-460-in-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx.html
<ripps> this is messy and it has to be redone every time the kernel is updated. So I created a wacom-dkms package in a ppa. I've been told it works, and I'm currently try to spread the word. But some people just don't like using ppa's
<ripps> are there any motu's who are familiar with cdbs/dkms? I know alot of people need a real fix for this, not just a PPA or guide on how to compile kernel modules
<geser> micahg: another candidate for the mozilla package set or removal from the archive: instantbird (Instant messaging client based on XULrunner and libpurple)
<micahg> geser: thanks, I need to chat with chrisccoulson about it
<chrisccoulson> geser - thanks. i will review that later and see if it's something that we want to keep (but i suspect it probably isn't)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek Day 2 starts in 24 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<DktrKranz> LucidFox: hi, do you need sponsoring for valknut_0.4.9-1 in Debian?
<LucidFox> DktrKranz> Indeed!
<DktrKranz> LucidFox: if you can give it a quick look (e.g. bump Standards-Version, and thelike) I could give it a go
<LucidFox> Okay, moment!
<Rhonda> \o LucidFox
<ripps> Hi, can someone please sponsor my wacom-source package in REVU? It creates a wacom-dkms package that builds an updated wacom module. This is essential because Wacom Bamboo Pen & Touch tablets have been broken since Lucid because the Kernel's default wacom module doesn't support them.
<ripps> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/wacom-source
 * Rhonda smirks at ripps
<Rhonda> The times between your requests start to get shorter. I wonder when you'll travel back in time. ;)
<ripps> Rhonda: hey, I waited almost 4 hours. I think I might just keep doing this every 4-6 hours until I get a sponsor, or someone explains to me why it won't be sponsored :P
<ripps> I've been poking at this about since mid-June, I'm just not taking silence as an answer anymore (that and I'm feeling kinda proactive today)
<Rhonda> Maybe you could try #debian-mentors on OFTC network too. It really looks like something that would be well suited within Debian, too.
<joaopinto> ripps, unfortunately REVU does not get much attention
<ripps> joaopinto: I'm aware, that's why I'm being aggressive and bugging everybody here ;)
<joaopinto> I decided to try Debian's ITP's, I hope it works better :P
<ripps> joaopinto: I've had success with getting packages into Ubuntu through Debian, but there isn't a bug related to my problem in Debian (although I've been told problem exists there too) and Debian Mentors want a Debian bug to be closed before they accept a package.
<joaopinto> do you need to go through Debian Mentor's ?
<joaopinto> can't you simple use the Intent to Package Process ?
<ripps> joaopinto: unless you get debian developer to sponsor your package, how else are you supposed to get it in?
<ripps> Debian Mentors makes it easy to get a sponsor
<joaopinto> ripps, no idea, I am just following the process as documented on the web, some will have to sponsor it,
<joaopinto> otherwise the process should not exist
<Laney> ripps: err, you can just file the ITP yourself
<Laney> reportbug -B debian wnpp
<joaopinto> that's what I did :)
<Rhonda> ripps: Then open a bugreport yourself? :)
<ripps> I'm doing that now.
<joaopinto> ITPs also have a huge backlog, so I am keeping limited expectations
<Rhonda> joaopinto: Erm. ITPs means that the people who filed them are working on them. Backlog would mean that some person might actually not be really working on them and one could take them over.
<joaopinto> Rhonda, so I am missing something, I have filled an ITP, what are the next steps ?
<joaopinto> erm, wait, it's on Debian mentor's FAQ :P
<Rhonda> Package it and get it uploaded. :)
<Rhonda> ITP stands for "Intend To Package" - and if one doesn't have that intent (any more) the bugreport should rather either be closed if noone is interested, or renamed into a RFP (Request For Packaging)
<joaopinto> ok, I am reading the get it uploaded part :P
<ripps> I hate reportbug, I never know if it sent my ITP or not
<joaopinto> ripps, didn't you specify your email ? You will get a message
<ripps> joaopinto: yeah, still no email
<LucidFox> DktrKranz> Updated package, now going to pbuilder and check it for lintian warnings
<ripps> how do I know if sendmail worked or not?
<ripps> wait since I didn't recieve a copy, that probably means it didn't....
<joaopinto> ripps, assuming you are using a local sendmail, check your logs ?
<joaopinto> Rhonda, are you familiar with the "Free Art License"  ?
<ripps> where are the sendmail logs?
<joaopinto> http://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses#TheArtisticLicense states that the original version is free, the documentation describes version 1.2
<joaopinto> ripps, /var/log/mail.log
<ripps> yeah... it seems I'm getting connection timed out
<ripps> Jul 13 11:45:13 ripps-desktop postfix/smtp[14004]: A3FD8229A2: to=<ripps818@gmail.com>, relay=none, delay=551, delays=445/0.26/106/0, dsn=4.4.1, status=deferred (connect to alt4.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.77.27]:25: Connection timed out)
<ripps> so, I guess my postfix is broken
<Laney> ripps: set smtphost in ~/.reportbugrc
<ripps> Laney: set it to what?
<Rhonda> Hmm, if people ask me something and don't wait for an answer for a few minutes it gets a bit â¦ depressing. :/
<c_korn> Rhonda: joao had to leave.
<ripps> Argh.... I hate this postfix senmail reportbug crap.
<ripps> someone please explain how to setup postfix
<ripps> I went through dpkg-reconfigure, still not working
<Laney> ripps: You should be more patient. Use your ISP's server.
<Laney> or reportbug.debian.org
<Rhonda> What is reportbug.debian.org meant to be? :)
<ripps> Laney: well, I'm just wondering why postfix doesn't work. It seems postfix keeps trying every couple minutes, and it fails to send to both debian.org and gmail
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> I use ssmtp as a simple mta
<ripps> Laney: woo, I got it working
<ripps> I had to set my relayhost = mail.charter.net
<ripps> I wish the confiure dialog had warned me that ISP's block port 25
<ripps> Yeah, okay. So a Debian Dev just snuffed my ITP.
<ripps> snubbed
<ripps> basically, he says I'm working around both the Kernel Development process and the problem should be fixed directly in the mainline kernel, not working around it with a dkms package.
<ripps> I would love to have the kernel fixed directly, but I have no idea how to write a patch like this for the kernel
<micahg> ripps: have you tried asking the kernel team for guidance?
<ripps> micahg: I've asked about it in the #ubuntu-kernel before, but I was never responded to.
<micahg> ripps: what about the kernel team ML?
<ripps> micahg: haven't tried that yet...
<LucidFox> DktrKranz> Okay, valknut updated, verified to build in sid without lintian warnings, and uploaded to mentors
<omid> trying to make package for pecl-cairo for php, but get this error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/463116/
<micahg> omid: it's using a static path to install instead of under the build dir
<omid> micahg, how can I solve it?
<micahg> omid: idk
<omid> micahg, thanks :)
<shadeslayer> simar: poke
<shadeslayer> simar: ok,first up is getting the info you need to start working,checkout the topic of this channel
<shadeslayer> loads of stuff needs fixing
<shadeslayer> unfortunately im about to crash and burn on the keyboard :S
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, Hi i'm simar now simar_mohaar temp
<shadeslayer> :)
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: ok,btw im from india as well ;)
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: just check out the links in the topic
<shadeslayer> the last one is pretty good for starting
<shadeslayer> fixing ftbfs errors
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, Good to know that ..
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, I'm sorry which topics .. I dinn't get :(
<shadeslayer> :)
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: type : /topic
<shadeslayer> and hit enter
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, ya I can see now
<shadeslayer> good :D
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: see the last one
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: for eg. right now im fixing kdiff3,have a look at the build log
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdiff3/0.9.95-6/+build/1811961
<shadeslayer> click on buildlog
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, ok
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: itll load loads of text and fancy stuff
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: just go along the build log and look at what happens
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, ya that is what danial explained yesterday. :)
<shadeslayer> :)
<shadeslayer> thats why im telling you to have a look at this :P
<shadeslayer> since you did this yesterday :D
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, One thing before this from where to get more such bug to fix ...
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: again,/topic
<shadeslayer> there are loads of ftbfs errors waiting to be loved
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, Tday in morning i tried to fix these but dinn;t find any :(
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, ok, Now i'm getting the stuff
<shadeslayer> see when you open the last link,it loads up a list of packages
<shadeslayer> it has 3 links,PTS == package tracking system ( debian ) , LP == Launchpad BTS == debian bug tracking system
<shadeslayer> for every package
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: you will want to look at the LP links first and then at lp build log
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, As you find good :)
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: well.. ive gtg.. need some sleep,will be back tommorow to help,ive given you enough info to get started i think
<shadeslayer> but just poke around the channel and someone will help
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: pick a package and start hacking
<shadeslayer> no matter how long it takes,keep at it :P
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, how to poke and really thanks for your help
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: well.. just ask people around for help
<shadeslayer> like suppose you have xyz error
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, thanks again ...
<shadeslayer> post that error here and then someone who knows will help
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: np
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, thankyou we will catch tommorrow ..
<shadeslayer> sure
<shadeslayer> im online a bit more.. 10-15 mins,then gone for sleep :)
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, ok
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, I think i will look at kdiff as you said earlier .
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: its not that easy :P
 * shadeslayer is still struggling....
<shadeslayer> but sure go aheahd
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, Please tell me some eary first.
<shadeslayer> hmm
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, One more thing I'm running Lucid and not Maveric does this make sense ??
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, Or do I need Virtual machine ?
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: yeah,you just need a pbuilder
<shadeslayer> !pbuilder | simar_mohaar
<ubottu> simar_mohaar: pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
<simar_mohaar> pbuilder with -dist or just pbuilder -create
<simar_mohaar> !pbuilder | simar_mohaar
<ubottu> simar_mohaar, please see my private message
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mgltools-bhtree
<shadeslayer> that looks good
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/ubuntu-nbs/64/gst-plugins-bad-multiverse0.10_0.10.18-0ubuntu1_lubuntu64.buildlog
<shadeslayer> see one of the install files in debian/ needs fixing
<shadeslayer> dh_install: cp -a ./debian/tmp/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstxvid.so debian/gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse//usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/ returned exit code 1 << means it could not find the file it needs to copy
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, ok that fine .. I got it. :)
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, Probably i will fix it by tomm. :)
<shadeslayer> :)
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, By the way what these package are. These are for Lucid or Maveric ??
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: these are package for maverick that failed to rebuild
<shadeslayer> due to some changes in another package maybe
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, But i have created the chroot enviroment using pbuilder -create  . I think this will create for Lucid base tarball
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: that depends on your pbuilderrc
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, let me check
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, How to open this file. I mean where it is located?
<dupondje> simar_mohaar: /var/cache/pbuilder :)
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: open : .pbuilderrc : in your ~
<shadeslayer> dupondje: pbuilder rc :D
<dupondje> I recommend using pbuilder-dist
<dupondje> this is a wrapper to make build environments for lucid/maverick etc
<dupondje> quite easly :)
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, I have this in it COMPONENTS="main universe multiverse restricted"
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, Do i need to build another chroot
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: set DISTRIBUTION=maverick
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: then just do sudo pbuilder update
<shadeslayer> dupondje: around to help?
<dupondje> yea :)
<simar_mohaar> ok thanks. Now i think I can work right away ..
<shadeslayer> dupondje: need to sleep :D
<dupondje> hÃ©hÃ© :)
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, thankyou verry much for your great help
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: dupondje will be able to help with queries :D
<shadeslayer> simar_mohaar: np
<shadeslayer> ciao
<dupondje> enjoy :)
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, dupondje Thats great
<shadeslayer> dupondje: hehe :D
<simar_mohaar> shadeslayer, But I think I will need some work on my part on one package to fix..
<shadeslayer> dupondje: the error is a simple cp -a error,from dh.. he probably will be able to fix it himself,tho might need info about what .install files actually do :D
<shadeslayer> ok then.. bye all :D
<simar_mohaar> ok bye
<omid> trying to make package for pecl-cairo for php, but get this error: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/463116/
<dupondje> did you try looking at another php 'addon' package ? :) should be quite the same way
<omid> dupondje, mmmm, nice idea :> thanks
<omid> dupondje, how can I find debian/rules of a package
<dupondje> apt-get source 'package'"
<EzraR> any motu want to review a package on REVU? The package is for Mangler, a ventrillo client for linux. Its already got one advocation and all issues should be fixed!
<EzraR> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mangler
<omid> dupondje, thanks :)
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-14
<dholbach> good morning
<DktrKranz> LucidFox: ok, added to my TODO, will have a look soon, thanks ;)
<iulian> G'morning dholbach, DktrKranz.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<fabrice_sp> Hi all
<fabrice_sp> I've commited a change to ubuntu-dev-tools in bzr and in the revisions, I see "fabrice <fabrice@fabrice-desktop>" instead of my name. What did I do wrong?
<DktrKranz> hey iulian, hey dholbach
<dholbach> fabrice_sp: bzr uncommit; bzr whoami "Fabrice Coutadeur <fabrice@email.com>; bzr commit -m "..."
<dholbach> heya DktrKranz
<fabrice_sp> ahhh. Thanks dholbach !
<fabrice_sp> is it possible to undo the push?
<dholbach> ah no, better not try it
<dholbach> there's ways to do that, but 1) ugly and 2) if somebody merged or pulled that already, they'll be in trouble
<fabrice_sp> ok. I'll leave it that way then (and it will be ok next time). Thanks anyway!
 * dholbach hugs fabrice_sp
 * fabrice_sp hugs back dholbach :-)
<fabrice_sp> about qt-assistant-compat: is it enough to build depends on libqtassistantclient-dev or should we add a runtime dependency on qt-assistant-compat? (see bug #605027)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605027 in qtiplot (Ubuntu) "Please merge with 0.9.7.14-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605027
<DktrKranz> dholbach: wrt remmina, I just ACKed remaining bugs, just to make sure they are synced together :)
<dholbach> DktrKranz: thanks a bunch - I was just about to have a look :)
 * dholbach hugs DktrKranz
 * DktrKranz hugs dholbach back
<dholbach> :-)
<Laney> dholbach: I had assigned myself to #604565 to take a look at upstreaming the patch but you sponsored it... could you try and watch out for that in future?
<dholbach> Laney: I was confused because you had assigned it to yourself 15h ago
<Laney> I used it as an example in the talk last night :)
<dholbach> Laney: I noticed the assignment, but thought that you had gone busy
<Laney> today I Was going to sponsor it
<Laney> but no worries
<dholbach> yeah, I didn't know that you were going to look into upstreaming it, etc. - I just thought "this looks easy to do, I'll just get it done, maybe Laney is busy"
<dholbach> sorry for ruining your example
<Laney> no I was already done with it as an example
<Laney> maybe an IRC ping next time :)
<dholbach> irc ping + comment on the bug ;-)
 * dholbach hugs Laney
 * Laney hugs dholbach too â no harm done
<BlackZ> fabrice_sp: ntfs-config does not FTBFS in sid IIRC
<Riddell> dholbach: could you review bug 605003 please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605003 in backintime (Ubuntu) "Sync backintime 0.9.26-4 (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605003
<dholbach> Riddell: I'm a bit busy right now - but I'll do it later on if nobody else gets to it
<dholbach> persia, TheMuso: can one of you add a [DEPRECATED] into the title (Display Name) of ~ubuntu-universe-sponsors so it gets clearer that it shouldn't be used?
<Riddell> happyaron: bug 602696 requests two packages but only 1 has an ack, please open a second bug for openvanilla-modules
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602696 in fbterm-ucimf (Ubuntu) "Please sync fbterm-ucimf (0.2.8-1) and openvanilla-modules (0.8.0.14+dfsg1-1) from Debian Sid" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602696
<happyaron> Riddell: thanks, I will do it now.
<happyaron> Riddell: there's a new set of upstream release, can I request them in a single bug?
<Riddell> happyaron: please don't, our scripts work with one package per bug
<happyaron> Riddell: okay, thanks
<TheMuso> dholbach: I'm on it now.
 * dholbach hugs TheMuso
<TheMuso> Done.
<TheMuso> oh deprecated is already there
<dholbach> TheMuso: for ubuntu-universe-sponsors?
<happyaron> filed three new requests, 605359 605361 605363
<happyaron> Riddell: ^
<TheMuso> dholbach: yes
<artfwo> hello! I have received two e-mails about my recent sync requests, containing "Your package contains new components which requires manual editing of the override file.  It is ok otherwise, so please be patient.  New packages are usually added to the overrides about once a week.". should I do anything or just wait for them to appear in the archive?
<Rhonda> "please be patient."
<artfwo> so, nothing wrong?
<Rhonda> No.
<artfwo> then I have a second question: one of the packages (jackd2) had ubuntu changes, and required a merge. it was synced due to source package renaming in Debian. I'd like to apply my previous merge attempt to the new package. should I wait for it to enter the archive/appear in launchad?
<Rhonda> Was it synced already or isn't it in the archive? Somehow that statement contradicts in my mind.
<artfwo> Rhonda, please check bug 601754
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601754 in Ubuntu "Please sync jackd2 1.9.5~dfsg-15 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601754
<Rhonda> Ah, was just done shortly. I'd say wait for it to be in the place you need to put your changes onto, yes.
<artfwo> okay, thanks for clarifying this!
<lfaraone> How difficult is it to request the creation of a package set?
<lfaraone> I'm currently mentoring a group of developers in the maintinence of the Ubuntu Sugar packages, and at some point I'd like to have them be able to upload to (that subset of) the archive directly.
<Rhonda> lfaraone: This wikipage might be helpful to you: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation
<lfaraone> Rhonda: Okay. Would it be a problem if an administrator of the team is not a MOTU? (but is a Ubuntu Member for other things)
<geser> lfaraone: creating a package set is pretty easy, create a list of packages and propose it to the DMB
<geser> lfaraone: and later let those who are ready apply at the DMB for upload rights to that package set
<Rhonda> lfaraone: I am not aware of such a restriction - but I'm pretty new myself so don't depend too much on my response. :)
<lfaraone> geser: okay. from what I read on the wikipage Rhonda linked, access rights were given simply by membership in the team.
<Rhonda> lfaraone: Actually, per package upload rights are about not requiring to be MOTU for it so it would be a bit against the idea of it to require some MOTU. :)
<directhex> how many package sets are there so far?
<lfaraone> geser: is that not the case?
<directhex> i know the mono team got ours pretty early in their availability
<Rhonda> hmm
<lfaraone> directhex: from what I've read, -desktop, edubntu, kubuntu, mythbuntu.
<micahg> lfaraone: I'm a good example of a new team based package set, I handed over ownership to the DMB once the package set was created, then applied for rights and was added back once approved
<lfaraone> directhex: ah, they're not listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#DelegateDev
<geser> lfaraone: TeamDelegation is more for teams which have procedures for new members (e.g. an council) and want to grant upload permissions on their own
<lfaraone> geser: so if myself and a Ubuntu-member friend of mine wanted to create a council of two with an application process similar to that of the DMB, would that be acceptable?
<directhex> sigh, time to suspend laptop... wonder if i'll get back on the wifi again
<geser> lfaraone: to be honest I doubt it, the only full delegated teams are ones on that wiki page
<geser> lfaraone: but for a package set you don't need a council or a full delegated team
<geser> lfaraone: see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-May/000062.html how micahg got his Mozilla Package Set.
<Rhonda> \o/ - got me a new phone number.  +43-780-UBUNTU
 * Rhonda . o O ( +43-780-828688 )
<dholbach> wow
<Rhonda> +43-780-novell (668355) is still available :P
<lfaraone> geser: makes sense. is there a way to have the list automatically expand to incude any package that matches a regexp? (for example, we want python-xklavier, python-sugar-*, and sugar-*)
<lfaraone> dholbach: if you don't have a google voice number already, you can get (414) HOL-BACH
<dholbach> lfaraone: better not :)
<dholbach> I get the feeling the "bat light" for dholbach goes off often enough
<geser> no, as only packages currently in the archive can get into a package set but if the DMB accepts a package set for python-sugar-*, sugar-* then pointing cjwatson to a new package matching it should be enough to let him add it to the package set
<lfaraone> geser: cool. should I be present for the meeting during which I propose a package set? (I assume it's discussed at the meeting)
<geser> lfaraone: yes, attending is preferred (for the discussion)
<lfaraone> geser: okay. do there already have to be a group of people I'd propose for adding to the group when it's proposed? (I expect some of the people I'm working with to be ready in a month or two)
<geser> lfaraone: at least one person would be nice (e.g. you). And the others can get added when they are ready (by applying for upload rights for this package set at the DMB)
<lfaraone> geser: for upload rights to the set, would work in a PPA be considered, or maintainership in Debian? or do they all need sponsored uploads to the Ubutnu archive?
<lfaraone> *ubuntu
<alf__> Hi all! Anyone interested in sponsoring ubuntu #605429?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 605429 in glmemperf (Ubuntu) "glmemperf should ignore benchmarks that cannot be run instead of aborting" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605429
<geser> lfaraone: sponsored uploads would be best as they both prove packaging skills and knowledge about our development cycle; Debian maintainership is also a good sign of packaging skills, so only the knowledge of our processes need to be shown; PPA uploads aren't well suited to prove one or the other
<DktrKranz> LucidFox: uploading valknut :)
<LucidFox> DktrKranz> \o/ Thanks!
<DktrKranz> it will have to clear NEW, but we're fast these days ;)
<ari-tczew> DktrKranz: what is NEW?
<DktrKranz> ari-tczew: valknut
<lfaraone> If I use CDBS, should I just write my doc-base files as I would with debhelper? Do I also include the docs in the debian/docs file?
<sebner> ari-tczew: Debian NEW is like our NEW queue for new apps
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek Day 3 about to start in 19 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<shadeslayer> oh...
<shadeslayer> ^^
<shadeslayer> just missed EzraR
<shadeslayer> bug 603276 , what did he mean by the last comment? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603276 in lucid-backports "Please backport kraft-0.40-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603276
<JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: the report against lucid-backports is sufficient for backport requests, and a bug report against the package in ubuntu is not needed/wanted :)
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: ohh.. i didnt know.. i thought i had to file a backport request
<JontheEchidna> you did
<JontheEchidna> against lucid-backports, which is sufficient
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: against the wrong package?
<JontheEchidna> no
<shadeslayer> oh ok..
<shadeslayer> uh.. :S
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: ill read the wiki again
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: can you sponsor some stuff to universe?
<shadeslayer> kdiff3 specifically
<JontheEchidna> ah, the ftbfs fix?
<shadeslayer> ( its FTBFS currently )
<JontheEchidna> sure
<shadeslayer> yes
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: debdiff http://pastebin.com/wzJ9pARK
<shadeslayer> buildlog : http://pastebin.com/yU5RDnUN
<shadeslayer> if your intrested that is :D
<shadeslayer> wrong one..
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: http://pastebin.com/eh7FwqsD correct build log
 * shadeslayer goes to look at kdesudo till then
<JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: the debdiff seems wrong. it says that the patch is being reverted
<shadeslayer> :S
<JontheEchidna> reverted:
<JontheEchidna> --- kdiff3-0.9.95/debian/patches/docbook.patch
<shadeslayer> yeah.. my fault
<shadeslayer> didnt debuild -S -sa :P
<shadeslayer> weird... same thing again..
<shadeslayer> one sec..
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: http://pastebin.com/rMTT1pMd << look ok?
<JontheEchidna> patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line
<JontheEchidna> patch: **** malformed patch at line 70:
<shadeslayer> 0_o
<shadeslayer> ok..
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: http://pastebin.com/rQAWig4G << thats the patch that has to be added
<shadeslayer> do you want me to push the packaging to bzr?
 * shadeslayer has no idea why debdiff fails...
<shadeslayer> packaging in bzr
<shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rohangarg/kdiff3/ubuntu
 * shadeslayer pokes JontheEchidna with MOTU stick
<JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: had to wait for bzr to process the new branhc
<shadeslayer> :)
<shadeslayer> ok ..
<shadeslayer> fixing kdesudo for now then
<ari-tczew> kadu merge is done. patch is waiting for sponsor
<simar> shadeslayer, Hi
<simar> shadeslayer, http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/non-free/m/mgltools-bhtree/mgltools-bhtree_1.5.4.cvs.20090603-1.dsc build flawlessly on my machine..
<shadeslayer> simar: hey :D
<shadeslayer> ari-tczew: ooh.. :D
<shadeslayer> simar: on your pbuilder?
<simar> shadeslayer, ya
<shadeslayer> simar: one sec..
<simar> But seeing the build log in launchpad, I conjecture that the an/gstreamer0.10-plugins should be pgstreamer though.
<shadeslayer> simar: lp link
<shadeslayer> simar: dget -xu https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/mgltools-bhtree_1.5.4.cvs.20090603-1.1.dsc
<shadeslayer> simar: and then build that
<shadeslayer> simar: the file you downloaded is a debian file....
<shadeslayer> uh
<shadeslayer> s/file/dsc
<simar> shadeslayer, If the package FTBFS then why we have it on launchpad for maveric? secondly can't I use apt-get source to download source from ubuntu repositories ?
<shadeslayer> simar: 1) the error is a rebuild failure,it failed a rebuild after something else changed on the repo
<shadeslayer> simar: 2) if you have maverick installed then you can apt-get source
<simar> shadeslayer, It means it used to get build correctly in maverick but not now.
<shadeslayer> simar: yes
<shadeslayer> simar: usually all the backend which handles packaging gets updated often with loads of changes,which means builds have to be re tried ever so often,and this causes a rebuild failiure
<simar> shadeslayer, Some more things,1. As I downloaded the same file from debian why did one builds fails for one and not for other
<shadeslayer> simar: debian != ubuntu ;)
<shadeslayer> simar: some stuff might build on debian,but if ubuntu introduces changes,then it might not build
<simar> shadeslayer, ya but the source file seems to be same doesn't have -3ubuntu0 format which is used to make changes in ubuntu and moreover it build correctly ..
<simar> 2. Why you use dget which I thought to download source only from debian?
<simar> and not from launchpad?
<shadeslayer> simar: you can use dget to download files from lp as well ;)
<shadeslayer> dont understand the first part of the question tho
<simar> shadeslayer, k
<simar> shadeslayer, I was told that when the debian source is modified in ubuntu we use this format like xpad_4.0-5ubuntu1.dsc  but the file name are same in ubuntu and debian it means it is unmodified that is no diff is applied. And moreover the source from debian builds correctly on my system?
<shadeslayer> simar: aaahhh... seems that its more of a dep issue,see python 2.5 was uploaded with some modifications
<shadeslayer> simar: so... you need to correct the deps in debian/control
<simar> shadeslayer, how you see that?
<shadeslayer> simar: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python2.5
<shadeslayer> and a bit of common sense (TM) :D
<simar> shadeslayer, ya :)
<simar> shadeslayer, my pbuilder is downloading 56% [17 python2.6-dev ..  I dont know why?
<simar> shadeslayer, and downloading more
<shadeslayer> simar: let the build finish :D
<simar> shadeslayer, ok thanks
<simar> shadeslayer, This is one of the line.Get:7 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid/main libhtml-tagset-perl 3.20-2 [13.5kB] . Hope all is well
<shadeslayer> ok :D
<simar> shadeslayer, it build successfully!!
<shadeslayer> simar: hmm.. ok,then you can ignore that package...
<shadeslayer> i guess...
<simar> shadeslayer, I think, may be my pbuilder is not configured correctly.
<shadeslayer> simar: why would that be?
<simar> shadeslayer, Because it is building correctly on my system and not on yours.
<shadeslayer> simar: i didnt say it didnt build on my system
<simar> shadeslayer, oh!
<simar> shadeslayer, Is the list you provided yesterday, all contains rebuild failures?
<Quintasan> jcastro: ping
<shadeslayer> those failiures are on official builders
<simar> shadeslayer, ok i will some other. anyways a very thanks for your help..
<jcastro> Quintasan: pong
<simar> shadeslayer, I really gained a lot
<shadeslayer> simar: np
<Quintasan> jcastro: can I go on priv, I have two questions about daily builds, I forgot to ask them during the session >_<
<jcastro> just ask here!
<Quintasan> oh well
<Quintasan> jcastro: first of all, is there a way to make bzr builder autobump versions? I have the build working but I can't get the debug stripping to work in PPA and I can't upload the same revision twice :(
<jcastro> I use like {time}
<Quintasan> hmm, this will create a new source tree each for every rebuild, hmm
<jcastro> here's what I have in my cron job currently:
<jcastro> bzr dailydeb /home/jorge/dailies/quickly.recipe --key-id FFC27DD0 --dput ppa:quickly/daily-build
<jcastro> then it just throws away the working dir (but yeah, it pulls the branch each time)
<Quintasan> well with quickly it is not a problem, but Qt takes >300mb of space :O
<Quintasan> jcastro: I can just wait for revision to bump, any tips on stripping debug libs? PPA disables thoes by default
<Quintasan> those*
<jcastro> Quintasan: nope, that's more of a question for dholbach, whose done for the day unfortunately
<jcastro> I mean "who's". My grammar sucks today.
<james_w> Quintasan: if you pass a working directory to dailydeb then it will re-use it
<james_w> Quintasan: what are you trying to do with the debug libs?
<Quintasan> james_w: strip them to project-neon-qt-dbg
<Quintasan> I have tried doing override_dh_strip but it didn't work
<james_w> Quintasan: you have project-neon-qt-dbg in your debian/control? Please pastebin your debian/rules
<Quintasan> yes I do -> http://pastebin.com/jt4zqjuB
<Quintasan> oh god
<Quintasan> james_w: sorry rules -> http://pastebin.com/Xveh7zUi
<Quintasan> I pastebin'd wrong file
<james_w> Quintasan: it looks like it should work like that, do you have a build log?
<james_w> Quintasan: unless it isn't being built with -g to produce the debug symbols in the first place?
<Quintasan> james_w: local build strips fine, PPA won't do it
<james_w> Quintasan: do you have a pointer to a ppa build log?
<Quintasan> james_w: https://launchpad.net/~neon/+archive/ppa/+build/1865814/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.project-neon-qt_1.0+1200_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
<Quintasan> https://launchpad.net/~neon/+archive/ppa/+build/1865814
<james_w> Quintasan: I'm looking in to it
<james_w> Quintasan: it does call the usual dh_strip in that build
<james_w> Quintasan: I suspect it is the missing -a to dh_strip
<Quintasan> I'll try that
<carstenh> installing aegir-provision breaks sudo in lucid and maverick, 0.3-2.1 in debian sid fixes this. can someone please sync it from debian to maverick and do whatever is needed for a SRU to lucid? launchpad bug is #543662 (i should habe mentioned this in the changelog, sorry for this oversight). thanks
<carstenh> ubottu: launchpad bug #543662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 543662 in aegir-provision (Ubuntu) "crashes and locks out root user" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/543662
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<dupondje-> carstenh: thx, subscribed the correct teams and linked upstream bug
<dupondje-> should get fixed asap :)
<carstenh> dupondje-: fine, thanks :)
<carstenh> dupondje-: jftr, not aegir-provision crashes but sudo itself.  even "sudo true" ran by root fails and thus installing aegir-provision renders the whole ubuntu installation unusable (except a root password is set).
<ScottK> shadeslayer: The mgltools-* packages are broken since we no longer ship python2.5 and upstream doesn't support 2.6 yet.
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-15
<directhex> isn't python 2.7 out now? what about *that* shizzle, when upstreams are still sticking with 2.5?
<ajmitch> it'll get there, one day
<ajmitch> not sure if it'll be in maverick or not, I think it was suggested
<directhex> well, mono 2.6.7 will be there, who needs python?
<ajmitch> sane people
<ajmitch> you see, people actually use python so they notice when it breaks
<directhex> yeah, in every minor version bump. solid Enterprise software!
<ajmitch> it's called Progress
<directhex> bedtime.
<ajmitch> farewell :)
<simar> hello vish
<bilalakhtar> Hello there. If in a merge, compat level is set to 6 but debhelper is >= 7 in build-deps, what should I do?
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: u there?
<bilalakhtar> Hello there. If in a merge, compat level is set to 6 but debhelper is >= 7 in build-deps, what should I do?
<RAOF> Leave it as it is, generally.  Compat level and required debhelper version don't have to be the same.
<RAOF> Because you can use debhelper commands found only in newer debhelper versions without necessarily wanting the changed behaviour of all the other debhelper tools.
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> hmm, my link scrolled off already.  %-/
<huats> morning
<directhex> YokoZar, was there ever a reason discovered for why wine breaks when built with -Bsymbolic-functions ?
<YokoZar> directhex: not to my knowledge
<YokoZar> directhex: that PGO audio garbling issue was pretty weird
<directhex> hm. i'm facing the same problem in the chromium bridge for moonlight (segfaults of built with -Bsymbolic-functions)
<simar> Anybody knows to which package does these files belong pk11pub.h  secerr.h  pk11func.h  keyhi.h
<simar> I'm try to solve a FTBFS
<simar> What may be the cause of this in the build cause
<simar> WeaveCrypto.h:44:21: error: pk11pub.h: No such file or directory
<simar> WeaveCrypto.cpp:47:20: error: secerr.h: No such file or directory
<simar> WeaveCrypto.cpp:49:22: error: pk11func.h: No such file or directory
<simar> WeaveCrypto.cpp:50:19: error: keyhi.h: No such file or directory
<simar> I have checked the debian/control two packages are not found on maveric but are avaliable on older systems..
<jpds> libnss3-dev: /usr/include/nss/pk11pub.h
<jpds> And so are the rest.
<geser> libnss3-dev
<jpds> geser: Morgen.
<simar> jpds, xulrunner-dev is not found for maverick but exist in the debian/control file as a dep?
<simar> jpds, I'm new to FTBFS . I need your help in this?
<jpds> simar: I think you can remove that, and add libnss3-dev.
<simar> jpds, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50411959/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-i386.weave_1.3-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz   is the build log
<simar> jpds, if you want to have a look
<simar> jpds, i will just try it ... thanks though :)
<geser> simar: the ubuntu mozilla team is checking if this package will stay in the archive (see the mozilla support policy) or get dropped. please contact them before wasting time on fixing this FTBFS.
<simar> geser, Actually i had a class by danial on 12th on packaging, there he suggested that this one we can try for practise and ask if anthing goes wrong on #ubntu-moto
<simar> jpds, still the same errors come .. :(
<simar> In file included from WeaveCrypto.cpp:41:
<simar> WeaveCrypto.h:44:21: error: pk11pub.h: No such file or directory
<simar> WeaveCrypto.cpp:47:20: error: secerr.h: No such file or directory
<simar> WeaveCrypto.cpp:49:22: error: pk11func.h: No such file or directory
<simar> WeaveCrypto.cpp:50:19: error: keyhi.h: No such file or directory
<simar> and even more i think :(((
<shadeslayer_> hmm.. so once again... My LP page : launchpad.net/~rohangarg , should i apply for MOTU with that amount of contribution or should i contribute more???
<shadeslayer_> ( before applying )
<simar> shadeslayer, hi
<shadeslayer_> simar: \o
<shadeslayer_> simar: im at work currently ... wont be able to help alot :D
<simar> shadeslayer, np :>
<shadeslayer_> also.. im leaving for home in 2 mins
<simar> shadeslayer, by the way best of luck for your MOTO app, :>>
<shadeslayer_> simar: feel free to leave messages/PM's on my core account ( shadeslayer )
<jpds> simar: chrisccoulson is the mozilla wiz, he might be more useful than me with your problem,
<chrisccoulson> hi :)
<simar> shadeslayer, i think you should be ... you really help by your own wish...
<simar> shadeslayer, sure i will .. :))
<shadeslayer_> simar: hehe :D
 * shadeslayer_ catches jpds 
<simar> shadeslayer, :D
<shadeslayer_> jpds: any suggestions
<shadeslayer_> ok gtg now... cya later... any suggestions go to shadeslayer :D
<shadeslayer_> ill see them later :P
<geser> simar: looks like dholbach picked a bad example
<simar> geser, why?
<simar> geser, could you suggest me a better?
<simar> geser, that is easy for me..
<geser> simar: because of the mozilla support policy that package (weave) might get removed from the archive because it's unsupportable in the long run
<simar> geser, any better alternative please??
<geser> one moment, I'm looking
<simar> geser, thanks you so much for your effort :->>
<geser> simar: openinvaders, see http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/ubuntu-nbs/32/open-invaders_0.3-1_lubuntu32.buildlog for the failure
<geser> simar: kball (also from http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi) has the same problem
<simar> geser, :)
<simar> geser, i'm looking at it.
<simar> geser, I thing, when sladesyaler means to leave message, does he mean to leave it on wiki ??
<simar> geser, whats the difference between the list of FTBFS you provided http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi  and the the last one in /topic
* simar changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: | geser
<simar> oh !!
<simar> sorry for that
<simar> :
<simar> :(
<jpds> Interesting topic.
<simar> jpds, ya !!
<simar> jpds, my mistake
* geser changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
* geser changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: "Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi"
* geser changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Want to get involved with the MOTU? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Sponsor queue: http://is.gd/2y76G | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs | http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/NBS | http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/ | latest rebuild failures: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
<simar> jpds, geser Whats the diff b/w http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs and http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi list of FTBFS ?
<geser> simar: the one on qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs is the list of current FTBFS (from recent uploads to the archive) while the other is the result from a complete archive rebuild
<geser> it has packages that build successfully in the past but don't anymore
<simar> geser, ok and thats because of change in other dep package probably ...
<simar> then i think rebuilds are easy to handle ...
<geser> simar: the one on qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs is the list of current FTBFS (from recent uploads to the archive) while the other is the result from a complete archive rebuild
<geser> the second one has packages that build successfully in the past but don't anymore
<simar> what a bad luck!! dget -xu https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/open-invaders_0.3-1.dsc build successfully.
<simar> using pbuilder
<geser> in a maverick pbuilder?
<simar> geser, ya I have set  DISTRIBUTION=maverick in ~/.pbuilderrc
<simar> geser:- let me try kball then
 * geser checks
<geser> I can reproduce this in my AMD64 maverick pbuilder
<geser> simar: check if your pbuilder is really for maverick: "pbuilder login" and then inside the pbuilder "cat /etc/apt/sources.list" and check if it lists maverick
<simar> geser:- i'm checking
<simar> geser in kball build log i've found
<simar> Unpack source
<simar> âââââââââââââ
<simar> gpgv: keyblock resource `/home/user/.gnupg/trustedkeys.gpg': file open error
<simar> gpgv: Signature made Tue Apr  7 05:58:50 2009 CEST using DSA key ID 4B394F7E
<simar> gpgv: Can't check signature: public key not found
<simar> dpkg-source: warning: failed to verify signature on ./kball_0.0.20041216-6.dsc
<simar> and src/gamemenu.cpp:224: error: 'mkdir' was not declared in this scope
<simar> geser:- I think you are right i can see Lucid there
<simar> root@simar-laptop:/# cat /etc/apt/sources.list
<simar> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid main universe multiverse restricted
<simar> #deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ lucid main universe multiverse restricted
<simar> root@simar-laptop:/#
<simar> geser:- but I have set DISTRIBUTION = maverick in .puilderrc
<geser> did you add it after you created the pbuilder or before?
<dholbach> geser: sorry for that
<geser> dholbach: no problem, I only recently saw that it is probably affected by the Mozilla support policy
<simar> geser:- I added after but then i run sudo pbuilder update shadeslayer told me this ..
<geser> try "sudo pbuilder --override-config update"
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: you pinged me?
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: yes
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: I needed help in something. someone else helped me
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: sorry if I caused you some problem
<tumbleweed> bilalakhtar: np
<bilalakhtar> tumbleweed: My question was, if dh (>= 7) in build-deps, then compat=7 is necessary or not?
<bilalakhtar> becoz in a merge, compat was 6 and dh >=7
<tumbleweed> yeah, we don't things like that unless we have to
<directhex> what are the consequences of not compiling with -Bsymbolic-functions?
<geser> bug #230460 explains it a little bit, perhaps that's the case here too
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 230460 in libxfont (Ubuntu) "xorg fails to start if linked with -Bsymbolic-functions" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/230460
<directhex> geser, so is blanking LDFLAGS to fix a Bsymbolic-functions problem an acceptable path to take?
<geser> directhex: if it solves then yes, please document it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags (like the libxfont1 entry) in that case
<directhex> wine should be in that list
<directhex> wine blanks ldflags, there's a link in debian/rules to rationale
<Quintasan> dholbach: ping
<dholbach> Quintasan: pong
<Quintasan> dholbach: about daily builds, do you how can I force stripping debug libs?
<dholbach> I don't think we do anything special to debug libs in PPAs
<dholbach> but you can ask in #launchpad
<dholbach> otherwise dh_strip should do its regular job, no?
<Quintasan> nope, build log says stripping is disabled on PPA builds
<Quintasan> james_w said he is working on it but it won't hurt if I could find some workaround
<dholbach> I'm sorry, but I have no idea what's happening there
<dholbach> does dh_strip not do its job in PPA builds?
<james_w> Quintasan: I didn't say that, I said that dh_strip is getting called as normal in your build log
<james_w> what is disabled on PPA builds is the stripping to -dbgsym packages that every Ubuntu package does
<dholbach> ah ok, that makes more sense now
<Quintasan> oh, I must've misread, sorry
<Quintasan> james_w: you have mentioned something about missing -a switch to dh_stip, I can't find it in man dh_strip, what it does?
<james_w> Quintasan: see "man debhelper"
<Quintasan> oh, okay
<Quintasan> I'll customize rules even further then
<dupondje> can somebody take a look @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aegir-provision/+bug/543662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 543662 in aegir-provision (Ubuntu) "Crashes due to wrong permissions of sudoers file." [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dupondje> its fixed in debian, just need sync :)
<geser> dupondje: so file a sync request for maverick and extract the changes for an SRU for lucid (if you want to see it fixed there too)
<dupondje> tought a normal bug would be ok ;) but i'll do a sync req
<geser> dupondje: you can update that but to a sync request
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aegir-provision/+bug/605895
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605895 in aegir-provision (Ubuntu) "Sync aegir-provision 0.3-2.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New]
<dupondje> geser: if you feel syncing it, feel free ;)
<carstenh> dupondje: thanks again for taking care :)
<dupondje> hÃ©hÃ© np, its good bugs get killed :)
<carstenh> dupondje: did you use a launchpad e-mail interface to file this bug? if you did, where can I find information about this?
<dupondje> requestsync <package>
<dupondje> :)
<dupondje> console ftw!
<carstenh> :)
<dupondje> it's in ubuntu-dev-tools
<wgrant> carstenh: https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
<dupondje> you have more permissions btw in tru the email interface ?
<dupondje> cause with requestsync I can set bugs as 'wishlist'
<dupondje> with the http interface not :)
<carstenh> wgrant: looks great, thanks :)
<tumbleweed> micahg: btw I sat down and wrote a better grab-udd-merge lp:~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/grab-udd-merge if you have any interest
<micahg> tumbleweed: k, thanks :)
<micahg> tumbleweed: I'll give it whirl this weekend
<tumbleweed> cool. could use some testing
<ari-tczew> statik: ping
<ari-tczew> statik: ok, so I'm leaving message then: could you clean-up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda ? your link in MOTU field leads to another application instead MOTU (stricte developer) application.
<micahg> ari-tczew: why is that a problem?
<ari-tczew> micahg: mess
<micahg> ari-tczew: it looks fine to me
<ari-tczew> micahg: it not looks fine for me
<micahg> ari-tczew: the DMB members already numbered the apps, why are you worrying about it
<ari-tczew> micahg: hmm, maybe yes
<dholbach> Day 4 of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloper Week starts in 23 minutes in #ubuntu-classroomDay 4 of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloper Week starts in 23 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<ari-tczew> dholbach: above link now works
<ari-tczew> s/now/not
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
<dholbach> sorry
<lfaraone> If a package does not have a patch system, would it be a bad idea to add one during a SRU?
<micahg> lfaraone: yes :)
<lfaraone> If foo-1.2-1 in Maverick fixes 20 high-value bugs that were in foo-1.1-1 that would all be candidates for SRU, and nothing else, can we upload foo-1.2-0ubuntu0.10.04.1
<lfaraone> *?
<simar> shadeslayer: hi
<shadeslayer> simar: \o
<shadeslayer> simar: a bit busy with koding.. but go ahead :D
<simar> shadeslayer: should i write testimonials on your wiki, may help you in your MOTO app
<shadeslayer> simar: MOTU.. and no.. im not applying right now :D
<shadeslayer> maybe after another month
<shadeslayer> or 2 weeks... if time permits
<simar> shadeslayer: k, fine
<simar> shadeslayer: go ahead with coding. c ya
<shadeslayer> ciao
<ari-tczew> slangasek: have you got some time for help?
<slangasek> ari-tczew: afraid not right now, but you can ask and I'll answer as possible
<ari-tczew> slangasek: I'd like to get a lesson about bzr merging from you.
<slangasek> ari-tczew: my latency will be high, but I'm happy to answer your questions :)
<ari-tczew> slangasek: so maybe another time, I prefer to active discussions
<ari-tczew> but thanks for reply
<slangasek> ok
<fabrice_sp> porthose, did my email bring some improvement to your pb?
<porthose> fabrice_sp, yes it did thx, busy testing the fix right now, will probably require an SRU :)
<fabrice_sp> cool :-)
<simar> geser: heya atleast i can reproduce the failed build of openinvaders ..
<dupondje> fabrice_sp: can you SRU also ?
<fabrice_sp> I can upload to -proposed, but it still needs a ubuntu-sru for acking
<fabrice_sp> why?
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/605895
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605895 in aegir-provision (Ubuntu) "Sync aegir-provision 0.3-2.1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<dupondje> should be added in lucid also, quite important bug ...
<fabrice_sp> we can't SRU a new version
<fabrice_sp> you should generate a minimal patch on the top of the lucid's version
<fabrice_sp> even it the result is the same :-)
<dupondje> ah didn't know :(
<fabrice_sp> the versioning is different
<fabrice_sp> !sru | dupondje
<ubottu> dupondje: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<fabrice_sp> you have a link there to the versioning scheme and what to do
<dupondje> will check, thx
<fabrice_sp> thanks to you to help making ubuntu better ;-)
<dupondje> always :)
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: ping
<ari-tczew> debfx: are you going to merge virtualbox-ose?
<carstenh> fabrice_sp: this patch is minimal
<fabrice_sp> carstenh, I'm not saying it's not: the version has to be different
<carstenh> fabrice_sp: and i should remember that i should first read the complete discussion before i answer :)
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<ari-tczew> tumbleweed, lool, : new libsmbios version pushed to bzr. bug 591017
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591017 in libsmbios (Ubuntu) "Upgrade libsmbios to 2.2.19" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/591017
<simar> dupondje: hi, could help me out with these FTBFS.
<simar> <simar> any idea about this error init.cc:303: error: 'mkdir' was not declared in this scope
<dupondje> sys/stat.h included
<dupondje> ?
<doctormo> OK odd
<doctormo> No one in this room
<simar> dupondje: This is a rebuild error. I think i must be..
<BlackZ> doctormo: ask the question
<simar> BlackZ: can you help me plz
<doctormo> BlackZ: Oh well, my irc client shows no one in the room.
<ajmitch> we don't really exist in your reality? :)
<BlackZ> simar: if I don't know what's your problem I doubt I can
<shadeslayer> ajmitch: or maybe different dimensions,connected through the IRC :P
<doctormo> OK, so if you wanted to get a package into debian, your first job is to dput to REVU right?
<shadeslayer> doctormo: no
<shadeslayer> doctormo: if you want it in Debian it goes to mentors.debian
<fabrice_sp> simar, don't assume it is: check the source
<shadeslayer> doctormo: also,if you want it in Ubuntu,then it goes to revu
<fabrice_sp> as we have a higher version of gcc in Maverick than in Lucid, some packages FTBFS because of missing headers
<fabrice_sp> simar, ^
<simar> BlackZ: I'm working on some FTBFS .. has really wired experience. Tried many but not successful in any :((
<shadeslayer> but its always prefered that it goes to debian first and then ubuntu
<shadeslayer> simar: want some easy ones?
<porthose> doctormo, first you need to submit an ITP bug againts wnpp so you can close it in the changelog
<BlackZ> hey fabrice_sp :p
<simar> shadeslayer: ya, eager need ..
<ajmitch> doctormo: what are you trying to get into debian?
<doctormo> OK, so this is a complex process, I'm trying to condense it down to a single page. Something simple with commands or social instructions.
<simar> fabrice_sp: i'm checking, thanks though for help :)
<shadeslayer> simar: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/ubuntu-nbs/64/kcollectd_0.9-2_lubuntu64.buildlog
<shadeslayer> simar: ftbfs due to docbook issue
<simar> shadeslayer: whats docbook issue?
<shadeslayer> all docbooks should now be in 4.2 format,but i _think_ that this one has it in 4.1.2
<fabrice_sp> simar, yw :-) And the one you picked i quite easy, and will show you how to patch , so it's a good example
<shadeslayer> simar: hmm.. docbook == documentation for the app
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Fixed kdesudo yet?
<shadeslayer> ScottK: :S
<ScottK> Is that a yes or a no?
<simar> shadeslayer: ok
<shadeslayer> ScottK: nope
<shadeslayer> i was hacking on Qt :P
<ScottK> Doesn't help with kdesudo ....
<shadeslayer> hehe :P
<shadeslayer> ScottK: also,i poked #kde-devel about it and they said they dont support kdesudo.. or something of that sort
<ScottK> shadeslayer: They don't. It's not a part of core KDE.
<shadeslayer> i think they said that its not a KDE module... dont remember the exact works
<shadeslayer> *words
<ScottK> It's not
<shadeslayer> ScottK: ok,didnt know
<shadeslayer> ScottK: ok what ill do is,ill fix digikam -> kdesudo -> other docbook ftbfs
<ScottK> Great.
<ScottK> digikam seems fine now though.
<ScottK> ia64 built after apachelogger's pkg-kde-tools fix.
<shadeslayer> uh..ok,ill just give it a run through pbuilder...
 * ScottK didn't check.
<ScottK> Good idea.
<shadeslayer> just in case :D
<shadeslayer> ScottK: need help with setting up krazy tho
<shadeslayer> ScottK: i cant get it to check the docbook
 * ScottK has never used it.
<shadeslayer> omg... its checking
<shadeslayer> i dont know.. it didnt yesterday
<simar> shadeslayer: Thanks, I think i will work on it tomorrow :)
<shadeslayer> np
<fabrice_sp> simar, so you give up with the missing stat.h header?
<simar> shadeslayer: Are there any resources present anywhere about fixing, like eg - the workflows how should we look to the problem step by step  ,,,
<shadeslayer> simar: uh.. look at build log -> find error -> try to fix error with patch/missing dep/magic -> post debdiff here
<shadeslayer> ( in a pastebin ofcourse )
<shadeslayer> simar: but feel free to ask around if you get stuck
<fabrice_sp> and google :-)
<shadeslayer> like right now i am :P
<shadeslayer> oh google++
<shadeslayer> and google is failing me :D
<fabrice_sp> :-)
<simar> fabrice_sp: I tried grep -r Update()         function name but the there is no response . I don't know how to find the fnction from the src folder . There are indeed a lot of files there...
<shadeslayer> simar: its grep -R foo path/to/foo.h
<shadeslayer> or.. grep -R foo path/to/foo/
<geser> simar: any success with the FTBFS I pointed to you?
 * shadeslayer thinks that simar has too much of workload :D
<fabrice_sp> ++
<simar> geser: The same I'm working on..
<fabrice_sp> the filename should appear in the compilation log
<simar> geser: probably you could suggest something :(
<fabrice_sp> simar, ^
<geser> simar: where are you stuck?
 * shadeslayer is going krazy due to krazy :S
<simar> fabrice_sp:  i'm looking  at it ..
<simar> geser: just a sec..
<simar> g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -DPACKAGE_SRC_DIR=\""."\" -DPACKAGE_DATA_DIR=\""/usr/share"\"    -g -O2 -g -Wall -O2 -c -o graphics.o graphics.cc
<simar> g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I.. -DPACKAGE_SRC_DIR=\""."\" -DPACKAGE_DATA_DIR=\""/usr/share"\"    -g -O2 -g -Wall -O2 -c -o init.o init.cc
<simar> init.cc: In function 'void save_hiscore()':
<simar> init.cc:303: error: 'mkdir' was not declared in this scope
<simar> init.cc: In function 'void load_config()':
<simar> init.cc:336: error: 'mkdir' was not declared in this scope
<simar> init.cc: In function 'void save_config()':
<simar> These are the errors
<simar> fabrice_sp: I think i got what you said
<fabrice_sp> !pastebin|simar
<ubottu> simar: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<fabrice_sp> but yes: the file to patch is init.cc
<fabrice_sp> you see: it's not so complicated to find it ;-)
<geser> more exactly src/init.cc
<simar> fabrice_sp: geser sure i think i got it. i'm looking it..
<geser> simar: and "sudo apt-get install manpages-dev && man 2 mkdir" to see what includes are needed for mkdir()
<fabrice_sp> geser, how do you know the file is in src?! Some magic?
<shadeslayer> ScottK: do we have something called just in time in kde trunk?
<geser> fabrice_sp: I looked at the build log :) http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/ubuntu-nbs/32/open-invaders_0.3-1_lubuntu32.buildlog
<fabrice_sp> lol
<fabrice_sp> ok: time to go to bed! :-)
<simar> geser: Thanks for the excellent trick. I just need these..
<ScottK> shadeslayer: Not that I know of.
<shadeslayer> ScottK: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/quality/sanitizer/just-in-time.php?view=markup
<shadeslayer> whee
<fabrice_sp> bye all
<shadeslayer> now i just have to figure out how to use it
<porthose> me waves
<simar> fabrice_sp: Thanks for you help. :>>
<simar> geser: In man 2 mkdir . does it refer to second page of mkdir man page?
<geser> simar: no, to the 2nd section in the man page categories (see man man)
<geser> 2   System calls (functions provided by the kernel)
<simar> geser: ok thanks you very much
<geser> simar: there is also "man 1 mkdir" for the mkdir command one uses from the shell
<simar> geser: I added the header files. Now i think I need to rebuild the package by debuild -S and then in debian directory dch -i to update the change log ..
<shadeslayer> ScottK: digikam still fails
<ScottK> Oh.  OK.
<shadeslayer> same error as build log online
<geser> simar: first update the changelog (dch -i) and the build the source package (debuild -S)
<shadeslayer> but i know a fix.. just need to get the commands right..
<simar> geser: ya i did update the change log.
<simar> geser:
<simar> I get these errors with debuild -S
<simar> debian/rules:3: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
<simar> debian/rules:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/simple-patchsys.mk: No such file or directory
<simar> Next time i will use pastebin
<geser> sudo apt-get install cdbs
<simar> geser: I hope it doesn't matter that i'm installingcdbs it in lucid, while building for maveric in pbuilder.
<geser> no, as you only build the source package
<simar> geser: debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<simar> geser: because of pub   2048R/FB16B2EF 2010-01-24
<simar> uid                  Gursimran singh (Tutorial key) <simar.i3r@gmail.com>
<simar> "Tutorial key" how to remove it. dch -i has created Gursimran singh only??
<geser> you can ignore that error for now, package signing is only important when you want to upload the package somewhere (e.g. PPA)
<geser> for test building in a pbuilder, it doesn't matter if the source package is signed or not
<simar> k :)
<geser> simar: IIRC you can edit the comment of a uid once you created it. either use "(Tutorial key)" also in the changelog or create a uid without that comment (you can revoke the uid with the comment if you don't need it anymore)
<geser> s/can/can not/
<simar> geser: I was trying it with gpg -edit-key
<shadeslayer> btw how do i check in a rules file if a file exsists or not and copy it when it exsists?
<geser> man [
<geser> [ -e src ] && cp src dst
<shadeslayer> geser: thanks :D
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: pong
<carstenh> I was not sure about set -e and foo && bar thus i used "if"
 * shadeslayer goes back to Qt till digikam builds
<carstenh> foo && bar works with set -e so just ignore me
<geser> shadeslayer: you might need "[ ! -e src ] || cp src dst" so the return value from it is always 0 and make doesn't catch it as error
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: couldn't answer earlier, someone tore my internet cable
<shadeslayer> geser: uh,ok,ill let it build and see what error it reports,so that i know in the future :P
<doctormo> Should I be uses cdbs to do patching?
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: have you got time for sponsoring kadu merge?
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: sure, give me the diffs
<carstenh> doctormo: depends on whom you ask. cdbs was more popular before dh was invented.
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: bug 602465
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 602465 in kadu (Ubuntu) "Merge kadu 0.6.5.4.ds1-3 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/602465
<simar> geser: !!!! thank you very much !!!
<geser> doctormo: it's up to you, but many like dh more than cdbs (http://people.debian.org/~cjwatson/dhstats.png)
<doctormo> carstenh: If I'm using dh, does the rules file need to be updated to include anything? or will anything in debian/patches/*.patch be applied during the build?
<simar> I made it. My first FIX of FTBFS ..
<Quintasan> simar: gratz \o/
<doctormo> geser: I'm writing documentation, so it's bes to document the right thing.
<simar> Quintasan: thanks . All Credit to geser
<shadeslayer> simar: go go!
<simar> shadeslayer: ya, thanks
<carstenh> doctormo: depends ... when you use dpkg source format 3.0 (quilt), patches are applied before debian/rules is run
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: only this? did you test build?
<simar> shadeslayer: now no stopping back !!!
<shadeslayer> simar: good :D
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: yea, built fine
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: well, let me try it too
<carstenh> doctormo: otherwise you would need to add an option to dh in debian/rules and maintain debian/patches/series
<doctormo> If I've created the debian dir using dh_make and then used edit-patch to make some patches, what should I do to make sure patches are applied? or is nothing needed?
<simar> shadeslayer: Do i need to upload the change now, may be by sponsership?
<shadeslayer> geser: ^^
<shadeslayer> !debdiff | simar
<ubottu> simar: A simple way to patch Debian/Ubuntu packages is to attach a debdiff to a bug report, or send it to the team which handles the package. Learn more about it from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Debdiff
<carstenh> doctormo: there are many ways (possibly too much) to create debian packages and maintain patches
<shadeslayer> simar: so create a debdiff and pester MOTU's :P
<shadeslayer> or file a bug..
<simar> shadeslayer: yo sir !
<simar> shadeslayer: :)
<shadeslayer> :)
<doctormo> carstenh: pick the best method, the most simple and I will document that one.
<carstenh> doctormo: I just installed cdbs and still have no edit-patch command
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: I'm not so sure about Standards 3.9.0 but rest seems fine
<doctormo> ubuntu-dev-tools I believe
<carstenh> so I have no idea about which tool we are just talking
<Quintasan> no errors in build so far
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: ^^
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: of qt-kde?
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: Standards-Version was changed in Debian, not by me, so don't care about it.
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: debian has that? hmm
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: do you see this change in my debdiff?
<carstenh> doctormo: ok, found that manpage less thing
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: oh, I applied to the wrong source
<shadeslayer> geser: /bin/sh: [-e: not found << hehe
<Quintasan> man, those ds1-3 sure are confusing
<carstenh> doctormo: do you change an existing package or are you creating a new one?
<doctormo> carstenh: In this documentation, we're making a new one.
<carstenh> doctormo: ok, so you are following a documented example. you only get confused if you do something different from the way it is described because (as already mentioned) there are too many ways to maintain pachtes
<carstenh> doctormo: which url do you follow?
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: I get FTBFS with debian's source
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: yes... but merge fixes FTBFS on maverick (read debian/changelog)
<simar> shadeslayer: Please guide me further.
<simar> simar@simar-laptop:~/open-invaders-0.3$ update-maintainer
<simar> Maintainer email is set to an @ubuntu.com address - doing nothing.
<simar> appears
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: it fails in debian/rules
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: not within depends
<shadeslayer> simar: whats there to guide? jump from one FTBFS to another... :D
<shadeslayer> and keep fixing
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: lol, I don't understand.
<ari-tczew> I can ask other sponsor and he will ack patch.
<ari-tczew> because debdiff is fine
<simar> shadeslayer: update-maintainer tool not setting the maintainers in debian/control
<Quintasan> simar: change it by hand then :P
<shadeslayer> :D
<doctormo> carstenh: I'm not following an example, I'm _creating_ documentation. Although I am basing it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete I'm just not being very faithful because it's rather verbose.
<shadeslayer> yep
<simar> Quintasan: k
<shadeslayer> simar: look at other packages and guess what it should be
<shadeslayer> then we will tell you if its right or wrong
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: so what's the decission?
<carstenh> doctormo: I'll be back in 5 minutes and have a look at it then
<simar> shadeslayer: I think the email of maintainer is @ubuntu.com so he's not of debian ..
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: well, I can't get it to build netiher with our version or debian's version
<Quintasan> maybe it's cause of my buggy pbuilder it because it is late and I'm doing it wrong
<doctormo> I'mm put it to one side until someone can explain it in any reasonable none daft way.
<simar> shadeslayer: example is in the patching guide though.. but think I should not change anything here ..
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: have you got updated pbuilder?
<shadeslayer> simar: can you pastebin the control file?
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: of course
<shadeslayer> !pastebin | simar
<ubottu> simar: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://tinyurl.com/imagebin | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<simar> shadeslayer: k
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: I have a hook that updates the pbuilder each time a build starts
<simar> shadeslayer: http://paste.ubuntu.com/464264/ . Its easy. :)
<shadeslayer> simar: Maintainer: Siegfried-Angel Gevatter Pujals (RainCT) <rainct@ubuntu.com>
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: besides, why are you debdiffing debian to ubuntu?
<shadeslayer> that has to be changed i think
<ari-tczew> shadeslayer: if maintainer has got @ubuntu.com domain, field won't be changed.
<shadeslayer> geser: any suggestions ( imo change it to motu maitainers? )
<shadeslayer> ari-tczew: ah.. ok
<shadeslayer> simar: leave it as such
<ari-tczew> and update-maintainer won't update
<simar> shadeslayer: I guessed right.
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: because this is very easy to look patch
<shadeslayer> simar: yes
<ari-tczew> every sponsor is sponsoring it for me.
<shadeslayer> anyone know who the bughugger dev is ?
<ari-tczew> including respect words, but please get more expierence with sponsoring
<Quintasan> ari-tczew: well, I'm doing mergeres for kde packages and we do it in a different way
<carstenh> doctormo: first of all I don't think that dh_make is good for learning packaging because it creates too much files one only seldom needs and might just confuse people learning packaging
<carstenh> but that's debatable
<doctormo> carstenh: that isn't my concern, my concern is ease of use and what is typically being used. dh_make is it.
<ari-tczew> Quintasan: ok, if can't process it, please don't unsubscribe sponsors and other person will take a look. thanks
<doctormo> Extra files are dealable and have been dealt with the in docs as deletable.
<shadeslayer> geser: get ready to sponsor digikam
<shadeslayer> well.. not for another 20 more mins atleast
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: do we install .mo files?
<shadeslayer> or are they stripped to translations>
<carstenh> doctormo: yes, I know. reading the url takes a lot longer than writing one sentence :)
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: I think they are stripped, but I'm not sure about digikam
<shadeslayer> ScottK: ^^
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-16
<carstenh> doctormo: edit-patch looks fine if you want to change an existing package, for new ones I would suggest a different approach. dpkg has two (non-native) source format versions: "1.0" and "3.0 (quilt)". if you use the former you have to take care of all the patching yourself with the help of your favorite tool, if you use 3.0 (quilt) you just change the source and build the package, dpkg takes care of creating the patch, placing it under ...
<carstenh> ... debian/pachtes/patchname and adds the patchname to the file debian/patches/series
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: I think apachelogger might know something
<shadeslayer> hmm
<simar> I successfully created my the first debdiff..
<simar> All credit to shadeslayer and geser ..
<shadeslayer> simar: hand it over to Quintasan or geser :P
<shadeslayer> simar: all credit goes to you!
<carstenh> doctormo: you could also just copy a patch file to debian/pachtes and add the name to debian/patches/series by hand
<shadeslayer> brrr.. huge build log
<simar> shadeslayer: thanks . :))
<Quintasan> simar: yeah, give it to me, maybe I'll learn sponsoring once for all
<shadeslayer> i think ill break pastebin.com
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: http://pastebin.com/7S65Vtwe
<doctormo> carstenh: So quilt would do allt he work without much effort? Because I've edited source code before and it just errors out.
<carstenh> doctormo: if you prefer 1.0 you need to change the simple rule file from "... dh $@" to "... dh $@ --with quilt"
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: line 6816 onwards
<carstenh> doctormo: the only difference is that now the patching is done whilst building instead of whilst unpacking
<shadeslayer> :P
<Quintasan> wut?
<Quintasan> well, not that long
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: thats the build log of digikam,the missing hook lists the missing files...
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: Qt build was 25k+ lines
<shadeslayer> so,tell me if i need to adjust those .mo files
<carstenh> doctormo: yes, quilt does everything you need. you dont even need the quilt command if you know where to place the patches and don't forget to add the name to the series file
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: :D
<shadeslayer> i dont think we need to install those
<shadeslayer> im about 75 pc sure that those files are not to be installed
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: why don't youc check  with current package?
<cjwatson> doctormo: if I were you I would simply document the 3.0 (quilt) format.  there's docs on the debian wiki which I would link to were I not typing on my phone.
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: that is the current packaging with just a rules modification
<simar> Quintasan: How to send you the file :)
<Quintasan> and ir results with tons of *.mo files?
<Quintasan> it*
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: aye
<cjwatson> doctormo: it's the direction things are going, and it means you don't have to mess around with applying and unapplying patches at build time.
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: i havent changed anything except add a condition to copy one file,which was causing a FTBFS"
<doctormo> cjwatson: Sounds like what I should be doing, is 3.0 tied in already to dh_make?
<cjwatson> doctormo: you just leave the patches in the applied state when building the package.
<shadeslayer> s/anything/a thing
<carstenh> doctormo: you need to know which patches are applied in which case. if you unpack a 1.0 source all patches are unapplied. if you change an unapplied source tree and save the result as patch it would not apply correctly to the patched source. this could be the problem you had.
<cjwatson> I don't know.  see comment about phone
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: well, digikam in lucid has no *.mo files
<cjwatson> check whether it creates debian/source/format and if so what it says.  read dpkg-source(1).
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: packaging has no mo files or no mo files generated?
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: packaging
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: well.. dont need them then
<Quintasan> simar: send it over to quintasan@kubuntu.org
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: No primary archive build -> not cleaning l10n content. << apachelogger's magic :D
<Quintasan> hey
<Quintasan> digikam is in main
 * Quintasan is only a MOTU
<shadeslayer> \o/
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: ok.. dont worry :P
<Quintasan> though give me the debdiff
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: sure :D
<carstenh> doctormo: concentrating on the 3.0 (quilt) and adding a pointer to the man page would probably really be the simplest way for your documentation. mentioning edit-patch if one needs to change existing patches would also a good thing.
<shadeslayer> omg..
<simar> Quintasan: thanks, I'm mailing you debdiff.
<shadeslayer> my mod doesnt come up in debdiff :S
<carstenh> doctormo: when using 3.0 (quilt) people also don't need to know the details, it should just work
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: http://pastebin.com/MX87AgzF
<shadeslayer> which is totally wrong
<carstenh> doctormo: dh_make creates 3.0 (quilt) per default since IIRC about last fall
<Quintasan> god damn, that stupid kadu patch won't apply
<Quintasan> what the hell I'm doung wrong
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: pastebin patch
<cjwatson> 3.0 (quilt) is at about 25% adoption in unstable at the moment, still rising fairly linearly
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: how about i make a packaging frontend :D
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: with Qt
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: let me figure it out by myselt :P
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: hehe :D
<Quintasan> #ubuntu.pl
<Quintasan> grr
<cjwatson> http://upsilon.cc/~zack/stuff/dpkg-v3/
<shadeslayer> btw any idea when harvest will be up again?
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: ScottK digikam debdiff http://pastebin.com/BHrXeiZF
<shadeslayer> ScottK: would be better if you can wget from http://people.ubuntu.com/~rohangarg/Patches/digikam.debdiff
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: wait, members get space at people.ubuntu? :DD
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: yeah...
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: didnt you know?
<Quintasan> nope :O
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: they do :D
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: what did you think?
<shadeslayer> heh.. i cant open that link :P
<Quintasan> nothing, I didn't know about that :P
<shadeslayer> lawl
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PeopleUbuntuCom
<Quintasan> well
<Quintasan> Kadu deb diff is broken
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: http://people.ubuntu.com/~rohangarg/Patches/digikam.debdiff
<shadeslayer> can you access that?
<meoblast001> hi, not sure if this is the right place to ask.... but it seems appropriate.... does the Bullet Physics library have anything that Ubuntu considers nonfree, as I had trouble finding it in repositories
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: yes
<shadeslayer> kool
<Quintasan> well I'm off
<Quintasan> good night
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: wait
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: explain http://pastebin.com/gGenHDss
<shadeslayer> before you go
<shadeslayer> seems he is gone :P
<shadeslayer> im off to sleep too ... :D
<micahg> siretart: do you mind if I merge gxine?
<MTecknology> so... I've been having fun with packaging lately but a lot of files that get installed keep changing nd moving around. How can I deal with files that need to be removed/added/changed from the package?
<MTecknology> actually I think I'm done aside from screwing up once - it'd just be niceto learn about for the future
<micahg> MTecknology: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-replaces ?
<MTecknology> micahg: I'm not trying to overwrite other files - just trying to cleanly update files this package installs - or is it the same?
<micahg> MTecknology: oh, do you have a .install?
<MTecknology> micahg: ya
<micahg> MTecknology: well, that's the list of files to be installed, right?
<MTecknology> ya, one is an entire directory
<MTecknology> micahg: how can I control what files need to be added/removed/changed?
<micahg> MTecknology: well, is there only 1 binary?
<MTecknology> ya
<MTecknology> err - I guess it produces a -dbg too
<micahg> MTecknology: then I don't think you even need a .install file if make install puts everything in the right place
<MTecknology> it doesn't
<micahg> MTecknology: oh, that's an issue then
<micahg> MTecknology: is there a problem modifying the .install?
<MTecknology> no - I just don't know what to put in there to make it do what I want
<MTecknology> lemme paste my .install
<micahg> MTecknology: is this for the archvie?
<MTecknology> no- I'll wind up writing a blog post about my changes to the package but I fear if people blindly grabbed it they'd get very confused
<micahg> MTecknology: I was just going to suggest moving to -packaging then
<MTecknology> micahg: should I move there? I forgot that channel existed
<micahg> MTecknology: yeah, that's for PPA/non-archive packaging help
<siretart> micahg: not at all, please go ahead!
<micahg> siretart: great, thanks, since it's a xul rdepend I requested it be added to my package set
<doctormo> Very early alpha of this debian packaging guide: http://divajutta.com/doctormo/foo/debian-packaging.tar.gz your humble review would be most welcome.
<siretart> do sftp uploads need to be gpg signed as well?
<james_w> siretart: yes
<EzraR> persia: are you around?
<siretart> hm. then I wonder what's the advantage of using sftp over ftp?
<micahg> siretart: FW issues?
<micahg> siretart: sorry, firewall
<james_w> there's not a great deal for most people. sftp can be more reliable, and for some people want it for private archives.
<siretart> oh, I see
<EzraR> what should I do about header files that are autogenerated concerning copyright?
<EzraR> anyone willing to review a package of mine on REVU? The package is mangler, a ventrillo client for linux. It would make a great addition for gamers in Ubuntu. It has one advocate already and should be in good shape!http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mangler
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<geser> shadeslayer: re "[-e": there is a space missing between the [ and the -e
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aegir-provision/+bug/543662
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 543662 in aegir-provision (Ubuntu Lucid) "Crashes due to wrong permissions of sudoers file." [Undecided,Triaged]
<dupondje> can somebody upload it in lucid ? don't have permissions for it
<geser> dupondje: 3 minor corrections: version 0.3-2ubuntu0.1 for the SRU, target: lucid-proposed, urgency=low (Ubuntu doesn't use it, so no benefit for setting it to something other)
<geser> and 4th: LP: #bugnumber instead of Closes: ; the former is for Ubuntu/LP and the later only for Debian BTS
<dupondje> posted (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/52022432/lucid.debdiff)
<geser> looks good now
<geser> dupondje: just noticed that you forgot to call "update-maintainer" (no need to update the debdiff just for that, but remember it for the next time)
<dupondje> and remove the non-maintainer upload change in changelog also ? :p
<geser> yes, already did that
<geser> I don't mind doing small corrections when sponsoring but I still notify the sponsoree about it for the next time
<dupondje> yea ofc :) learning every day :)
<dupondje> why naming it ubuntu0.1 btw ?
<dupondje> default sru naming?
<geser> yes
<geser> that way the version is smaller than the one in the development series even if it only has "ubuntu1"
<Quintasan> argh, damn you dput
<geser> ?
<Quintasan> nothing, almost tried uploading to lucid
<geser> it would get rejected
<geser> I managed to upload through ppa.launchpad.com into the main archive :/
<Quintasan> geser: :O
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: well, open-invaders changelog still points to lucid, and I get some files that are not installed but they are in install files, beats me why, they install fine though
<geser> dupondje: sponsored
<Quintasan> shadeslayer: besides, shouldn't this header be added as a patch to source, not modified manually?
<dupondje> geser: thx !
<Quintasan> geser: did ari-tczew ask you to review kadu merge?
<geser> no
<Quintasan> mhm, okay
<shadeslayer> Quintasan: what where who?
<shadeslayer> i dont get you :S
<jibel> porthose, Hi, could you please check your patch for bug 578137 . It introduces a regression in -proposed. Thanks.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 578137 in gallery2 (Ubuntu Lucid) "gallery2 2.3 php 5.3 incompatibility" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/578137
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: about mo files....
<shadeslayer> ah
<shadeslayer> right
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: generally stuff in main must provide pot&po for import into launchpad from where the l10n content will then be exported to the ubuntu langpacks
<apachelogger> in cosequence the langpacks ought to be the only packages to provide .mo files
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: ok,but what are mo files?
<apachelogger> which is not always the case, but in general
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: compiled po files
<apachelogger> the actual translations
<shadeslayer> ok
<apachelogger> should a package still try to install mo files they ought to be generally stripped automatically (unless overriden that is)
<shadeslayer> k
<shadeslayer> so do not install .mo files ( in general )
<apachelogger> universe packages must generally ship mo files themselfs (universe does not get imported into launchpad, although at last UDS it was discussed to have that optional, for e.g. xubuntu which lives in universe AFAIK)
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: you do not have to worry
<apachelogger> for digikam they still get installed, but ubuntu package building magic will strip them from the package
<shadeslayer> ok
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: digikam debdiff looks fine btw ... I hope you tested it ;)
 * apachelogger leaves again for lunch
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: also,remember when i told you that akonadi takes up alot of bandwidth? its just caching stuff
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: did you upload?
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: and yes i tested it
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: the caching takes up the badnwith? Oo
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah,it caches stuff from you imap/twitter/identi.ca account
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: thats what i was told :P
<apachelogger> yes, I know that
<apachelogger> but where is the problem with that?
<porthose> jibel, damn, ok will look at it this afternoon :(
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: the problem was i didnt know ;)
<apachelogger> oh
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: well what did you expect it to do considering it is a PIM data *storage* service :P
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: btw in kubuntu,the default browser is still konqueror under Settings > Default apps
<apachelogger> in a new install?
<shadeslayer> yes
<shadeslayer> latest ISO
<jibel> porthose, thanks
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: i poked kubuntu-default-settings,but couldnt find anything there
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: so effectively when you click on a link,it still loads up konqueror
<apachelogger> yes it is not configured in kds
<apachelogger> feel free too fix
 * apachelogger will feel free to revert to konqueror if rekonq doesnt stop crashing :P
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: ok
<shadeslayer> :P
<apachelogger> oh dear oh dear, the ui of TOra is sort of horrible
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/430013
<shadeslayer> :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430013 in kubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Oxygen-Molecule for Kubuntu" [Undecided,Opinion]
<shadeslayer> also.. wrong use of opinion
<ScottK> shadeslayer: There is no right use of opinion.
<shadeslayer> haha
<apachelogger> lol
<apachelogger> well
<apachelogger> actually it is the right use of opinion anyway
<apachelogger> I closed the bug because it was not packaged and because molecule is inferior to qtcurve
<ScottK> apachelogger: No.  There is no right use of opinion.
<apachelogger> ScottK: there is of the bug tag :P
<apachelogger> right use == what the author intent it to be used for
<ScottK> apachelogger: I think it's not useful and we shouldn't use it.
<apachelogger> since the packaging aspect of making molecule default is sort of resolved that leaves the closing reason of inferior implementation standing
<apachelogger> and whether that is a good reaosn or not might very well be discussed :P
<apachelogger> which does not change the fact that I *won't fix* it but in any case looks nicer
<ScottK> Yes, but we have a process for deciding Kubuntu defaults that doesn't involve the bug tracker.
<shadeslayer> i should probably apply to bug control...
 * shadeslayer goes to frame application...
<apachelogger> ScottK: opinion is just like invalid or wont fix to not piss off the reporter
<shadeslayer> hehe
<shadeslayer> its a bug which the community wants fixed but is a Wont Fix bug
<ScottK> apachelogger: No.  Opinion is just like invalid or wontfix except it invites people to still fill my inbox with noise.
<shadeslayer> ScottK: ++
<apachelogger> as if they will not do it anyway?
<apachelogger> "WHY IS THIS INVALID -> reopen"
<ScottK> apachelogger: I predict encouragement won't reduce it.
<apachelogger> jonny comes along -> closes again
<apachelogger> "YOU ARE A BUTTERFLY => open"
<apachelogger> ...
<ScottK> The real solution is locking bug status.
<apachelogger> ack
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: would you mind committing your digikam rules fix?
 * ScottK will stop now before he gets to the point where someone needs to give him a CoC warning relative to LP development priorities.
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: in bzr?
<apachelogger> aye
<apachelogger> ~kubuntu-members/digikam/ubuntu/
<shadeslayer> ok.. im just setting up bzr..
<shadeslayer> ( brand new install )
<ScottK> apachelogger: I was going to tell him he needed to deliver it scribbled on a napkin to Riddell in Prague.
<apachelogger> lol
<shadeslayer> whats Riddell doing in Prague? :D
<ScottK> Canonical distro team development sprint.
<toabctl> how can i restart a daemon automatically after a package update? i tried "initctl restart myupstartjobname" but that does not work. any ideas?
<shadeslayer> ScottK: btw where does the setting for default browser live in kds?
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: it does not
<apachelogger> konqueror == KDE default => no override necessary in kds
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: 0_o
<shadeslayer> ohh
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: then how do we set rekonq to default?
<apachelogger> via the config :P
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: :P
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: i meant in the live CD
<apachelogger> via the config :P
<apachelogger> a) look at the code where the appropriate config value would be set and what it would be called
<apachelogger> or b) set the setting in systemsettings and check where it changed/added a value in ~/.kde/share/config
<apachelogger> latter is mostly easier
<shadeslayer> apachelogger: digikam in bzr
<shadeslayer> ill check it out later ..
<apachelogger> shadeslayer: thx
<dupondje> somebody here had a broken maverick ? :p
<dupondje> aka not loading x
<EzraR> anyone willing to review a package of mine on REVU? The package is mangler, a ventrillo client for linux. It would make a great addition for gamers in Ubuntu. It has one advocate already and should be in good shape!http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/mangler
<dholbach> Last day of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek starting in 33 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<geser> dupondje: when did you update the last time?
<dupondje> update what ? :)
<geser> dupondje: your maverick
<dupondje> 1hour ago :) anyway the x issue is fixed now
<geser> dupondje: there was an grub update recently that switched a default which might cause your problem (at least it did for me)
<geser> ok
<geser> than it was a different issue
<dupondje> libdrm fixed it for me it seems
<dupondje> geser: what change was it in grub ?
<AnAnt> Hello, why does Ubuntu build nspluginwrapper for i386 arch ?
<Rhonda> Why not?
<Rhonda> It also gets built for amd64 arch, btw.
<AnAnt> Rhonda: I understand that nspluginwrapper is to get 32-bit plugins working under 64-bit linux
<Rhonda> No, that's not the case.
<Rhonda> Oh, wait. ndispluginwrapper? Thought you meant ndiswrapper itself :)
<Rhonda> Though I don't find a package with that name, neither source nor binary?
<AnAnt> nspluginwrapper
<Rhonda> Right â¦
<Rhonda> In Debian it's only built for amd64.
<ari-tczew> \o/ yes! Outstanding Merges in universe are smaller than in main!
<ari-tczew> bdrung: could you review bug 595499 because patch still since  2010-06-17
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 595499 in gnu-efi (Ubuntu) "Please merge gnu-efi 3.0i-3(main) from debian unstable(main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/595499
<bdrung> ari-tczew: waiting for an update diff ;)
<ari-tczew> are there any statistics about MoM status? like "X outstanding merges and Y updated merges at start FeatureFreeze" or "... on final release" ?
<shadeslayer> MoM needs cleanup imo
<shadeslayer> everything that has been fixed/uploaded needs to be removed
<ScottK> That's generally automatic.
<shadeslayer> ScottK: uh.. when the package gets uploaded?
<ScottK> Yes.  More precisely the MoM update after the package gets uploaded.
<ari-tczew> ScottK: not every package is removed from MoM after update.
<ari-tczew> e.g. fakesyncs
<ScottK> They should once they have a higher version.
<Rhonda> What do I need in a dh 7 style rules file to create a dbg package?
<james_w> Rhonda: nothing I believe, just the control entry with a -dbg package with the same root name as your other package
<james_w> Rhonda: if you want a single -dbg for multiple binary packages then I think it is some more work, involving override_dh_strip:
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-17
<bilalakhtar> help! How do I upgrade a package to new upstream version using bazaar branches?
<bilalakhtar> does debcommit handle that properly?
<kronos> slangasek: poke
<kronos> slangasek: was looking at binutils-z80 ftbfs
<kronos> slangasek, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/49755201/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.binutils-z80_2.20.1-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<slangasek> kronos: alright :)
<kronos> slangasek, binutils-2.20.1.tar.bz2 -> /usr/src/binutils/binutils-2.20.1.tar.bz2 but the tarball is not present .
<kronos> slangasek, instead binutils-2.20.51.tar.xz is present there
<kronos> in the /usr/src/binutils directory
<carstenh> it's also broken in debian
<slangasek> kronos: right - I synced it because it was already broken in Ubuntu at the time, so there's no point in carrying a delta when there was a chance the Debian maintainer might fix it for us
<slangasek> kronos: if you're going to fix it, I would certainly recommend doing so first in Debian, and syncing from there
<carstenh> no it was broken in debian, weird package
<omid> amd64 build problem, its OK on my local amd64 ubuntu, but in launchpad i got this error, what should i do to fix it: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/464876/
<omid> amd64 build problem, its OK on my local amd64 ubuntu, but in launchpad i got this error, what should i do to fix it: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/464876/
<geser> omid: do you have any arch-specific files? e.g. some code that needs to get compiled on each architecture?
<omid> geser, no, I don't know what is it, where should I find some description about that? I cannot find any in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<geser> omid: I ask because if you don't have any e.g. .c files in your package that need compiling and only e.g. php code than you could make the package "Architecture: all" but if you need compiling you need to fix your binary-arch target in debian/rules
<geser> omid: see the description for Architecture on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#control (it's a bit terse)
<omid> geser, But I can compile it in my own system, without any problem!
<geser> omid: if it's php-cairo from http://sourceforge.net/projects/klecks/ then it has architecture-specific code (cairo.c)
<omid> geser, No, it is from pecl.php.net
<geser> omid: because there is a small difference how pbuilder operates by default (build arch-specific and arch-indep packages), the i386 buildd work the same, but the amd64 buildd build only the arch-specific packages
<geser> omid: you should get the same error when you pass "--binary-arch" when building your package (this would simulate the amd64 build): pbuilder build --binary-arch your_package.dsc
<omid> geser, thanks, then I will debug it local :-)
<LucidFox> Wait wait wait
<LucidFox> So MOTUs can sync packages directly, without waiting for archive admins to do that?
<hyperair> syncpackage is the (not-so-recommended) way to do that for now.
<hyperair> a button is planned.
<shadeslayer> heh
<hyperair> a launchpad.net button
<hyperair> LucidFox: http://old.nabble.com/The-syncing-process-and-syncpackage-%28or%3A-How-to-speedup-the-syncing-process%29-td28576593.html and https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/syncpackage
<LucidFox> Not-so-recommended?
<hyperair> i think it's still considered "experimental"
<hyperair> which is why it's not in any package, but stuffed away in some bzr branch somewhere.
<hyperair> "Manually running syncpackage does add chances for errors.  This is why
<hyperair> it's use has been discouraged in the past.  I think this is still a good
<hyperair> reason to minimize it's use.
<hyperair> "
<hyperair> quoted from ScottK's email.
<hyperair> LucidFox: ^^
<LucidFox> hyperair> syncpackage is actually in ubuntu-dev-tools
<hyperair> LucidFox: is it actually distributed already?
<hyperair> LucidFox: i thought it was in the source but not in the binary package.
<LucidFox> Well, apparently it is
<LucidFox> at least in maverick
<hyperair> ah.
<hyperair> nice.
<hyperair> it isn't in lucid.
 * hyperair still uses the ancient syncpackage from pitti.
<geser> it was left out on purpose for lucid but is currently in maverick
<hyperair> the new one uses the lp api afaik, which makes it so goddamn slow i could grow a moustache and beard while waiting.
<hyperair> a big bushy one like stallman's
<geser> I didn't look yet in detail at the code but AFAIK it is an improved version of that script
<hyperair> my general experience is that anything, *anything* at all that uses the launchpad api is slow as hell.
<hyperair> requestsync for example.
<hyperair> i started requestsync, forgot about it, went to sleep, woke up next day, didn't open a terminal for half a day, and when i resumed my screen session, i saw requestsync still hung
<geser> that slow is it for you?
<hyperair> yes, that slow.
<geser> LP in general or only scripts using the LP API?
<hyperair> LP in general is slow
<hyperair> but scripts using the LP API are especially slow.
<geser> that explains it as the LP API uses http request towards LP
<hyperair> i can finish downloading debs from PPAs faster than requestsync can fetch data from LP.
<geser> you can use requestsync without the LP API (still default), it then falls back on using rmadison to get the version info and asks the user about things it couldn't check
<geser> oh
<hyperair> oh rmadison works splendidly fast.
<hyperair> and yeah, since that wonderful waiting experience, i've never used requestsync with the LP API again.
<hyperair> well occassionally i'd forget, and then realize after a long wait.
<geser> I could add a check if $USER == hyperair and always don't use the LP API in that case :)
<hyperair> heh lol
<hyperair> don't bother, ever since syncpackage <3, i've never touched requestsync.
<ScottL> i want to file an SRU for the ardour mute bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/581786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581786 in Ubuntu Studio "Mute button not enabled by default in Ardour 2.8.6 Lucid AM64" [High,Fix released]
<ScottL> however i can not nominate the bug for SRU to the correct version (i.e. 10.04 LTS)
<ScottL> i can do nominate the trunk version and others
<ScottL> should i nominate on of the others with explanation or is there another way to nominate 10.04 LTS
<ScottL> of course I would like to accomplish this before 10.04.01 on july 29
<ScottL> any help is greatly appreciated
 * evilshadeslayer was about to mistake ScottL for ScottK
<ScottL> evilshadeslayer, that happens a lot, apologies for that
<evilshadeslayer> ScottL: oh no need to apologies :P
<evilshadeslayer> *apologize
<c_korn> hm, has someone an idea why "apxs2 -c -o mod_form.so mod_form.c" only creates a "la" and "lo" file? but no shared "so" library ?
<c_korn> http://paste.debian.net/80744
<evilshadeslayer> whee
<evilshadeslayer> any MOTU's around?
<evilshadeslayer> http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/qoauth << thats currently not in maverick
<evilshadeslayer> should i get it syncd and then change anything if theres a failiure ?
<evilshadeslayer> or do we directly upload 1.0-2ubuntu1
<kees> evilshadeslayer: if it builds without modification just request a sync
<evilshadeslayer> ok.. im letting it go through pbuilder as of now
<evilshadeslayer> kees: i was unsure if we need a un modified package in ubuntu first
<geser> no need to sync a package which doesn't build, just upload the fixed one
<kees> nah, should be fine either way; just make sure the orig matches debian if you do an initial ubuntu1 upload. since it's NEW, though, it frequently easier to review if it's unmodified
<kees> right
<evilshadeslayer> seems to build fine.. now looking for missing files
<evilshadeslayer> kees: geser http://pastebin.ca/1902587
<evilshadeslayer> do we need those?
 * evilshadeslayer doesnt think so
<geser> are they in the Debian package?
<evilshadeslayer> geser: nope
<evilshadeslayer> those are missing files
<evilshadeslayer> from the pbuilder hook
<evilshadeslayer> afaik we need only .so and .a files
<evilshadeslayer> i wonder where my mail went after i run request sync
<evilshadeslayer> geser: kees and any other MOTU bug 606751
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606751 in Ubuntu "Sync qoauth 1.0-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606751
<evilshadeslayer> ill attach build log
<evilshadeslayer> build log attached
<c_korn> hm, why does EDITOR=nano quilt header -e open up gedit ?
<shadeslayer> c_korn: missing a export there?
<c_korn> $ echo $EDITOR
<c_korn> nano
<StevenK> c_korn: Try VISUAL=nano ...
<christoph_debian> maybe .quiltrc overrides it?
<c_korn> StevenK: thanks
<carstenh> sensible-editor is used in sid instead of $EDITOR
<c_korn> I have no .quiltrc
#ubuntu-motu 2010-07-18
<shadeslayer> i cant seem to be able to install a sid pbuilder on kubuntu :S
<directhex> new sid builders are sometimes broken
<directhex> sid's like that
<maxwellian> Is the Ubuntu Applications menu built up from .desktop files in /usr/share/applications?  I'm on Xubuntu, and I have a different menu, but I'm working on a menu-related bug for Ubuntu.
<wgrant> maxwellian: Yes, it uses .desktop files too.
<maxwellian> wgrant: So what are the .menu files for?
<wgrant> maxwellian: The Debian menu, which is used by some other WMs.
<wgrant> But KDE, GNOME and XFCE all use freedesktop.org .desktop file standard.
<wgrant> And not .menu files.
<maxwellian> wgrant: Okay, that makes a lot more sense now.  Thanks!
 * maxwellian wishes Google would index dot-files rather than just stripping the punctuation
<wgrant> Yes :(
<maxwellian> wgrant: In that case, does it make sense to send a patch to Debian which adds the .desktop file?  Ideally they would put it in their package so we could all benefit, but if it's not used by Debian, would they include it?
<wgrant> maxwellian: Debian does use .desktop files.
<wgrant> But some of the WMs don't.
<wgrant> maxwellian: Better yet, send it upstream.
<wgrant> So all distributions benefit.
<wgrant> And neither us nor Debian have to maintain the delta forever.
<maxwellian> wgrant: Right, well I'll send the patch to both Debian and upstream then.  Not sure if upstream would know what to do with it, but if Debian takes it then we can just sync the package from them next time.
<bbordwell> Hello, I am a bug triager and I am not very familiar with the SRU process. Is there anything else that should be done to this bug to get the SRU team to look at it?
<bbordwell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gdebi/+bug/591470
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 591470 in gdebi (Ubuntu) "Gdebi crashes while trying to install a deb package, TypeError: not enough arguments for format string" [Medium,Fix released]
<jdong> heh. the goto usage in the openvpn SRU. :)
<ScottL> jdong, could you answer a question about doing an SRU for ardour (#581786)
<ScottL> #581786
<ScottL> crap  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/581786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581786 in Ubuntu Studio "Mute button not enabled by default in Ardour 2.8.6 Lucid AM64" [High,Fix released]
<ScottL> i cannot nominate the 10.04 LTS version as an SRU candidate
<ScottL> i can nominate lots of others and the trunk series, should i just nominate the trunk and make mention in the SRU that it's for the 10.04 series?
<lfaraone> jdong: I saw your comment on bug 601219, and I already uploaded to the queue earlier yesterday.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 601219 in sugar-pollbuilder-activity (Ubuntu Lucid) "Sugar package files installed in wrong directory" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/601219
<micahg> ScottL: try this link to nominate for lucid: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/581786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581786 in Ubuntu Studio "Mute button not enabled by default in Ardour 2.8.6 Lucid AM64" [High,Fix released]
<ScottL> i will micahg , thank you
<ScottL> eh, micahg, it gives me an 'lost something?' page when i try to nominate from the link :(
<ScottL> can i start a new bug for this?
<micahg> ScottL: you should probably file a bug against malone for that
<micahg> ScottL: here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ardour/+bug/581786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581786 in Ubuntu Studio "Mute button not enabled by default in Ardour 2.8.6 Lucid AM64" [High,Fix released]
<ScottL> micahg, success!  many thanks
<micahg> ScottL: np, LP just needed package/distro context
<bilalakhtar> Please see bug #606610
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606610 in plexus-cdc (Ubuntu) "Sync plexus-cdc 1.0~alpha14-5 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606610
<shadeslayer> TheMuso: poke
<shadeslayer> can you join #ubuntu-packaging if your around
<ScottL> can someone help me with uploading to release-proposed on an SRU ? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ardour/+bug/581786
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581786 in Ubuntu Studio "Mute button not enabled by default in Ardour 2.8.6 Lucid AM64" [High,Fix released]
<nigelb> ScottL: as per new policy, you should subscribe sponsors
<ScottL> nigelb, ubuntu sponsors team?
<nigelb> yes
<ScottL> nigelb, done
<ScottL> nigelb,  i am nervous about timing since this is for 10.04.01, am i to wait until sponsors contacts me or is there an irc channel i can talk to sponsors?
<nigelb> sru can be done any time
<nigelb> also of note, canonical employees are in prague at a platform "rally"
<nigelb> but sponsors include a lot of community members and they'll get to it soon :)
<nigelb> you can try asking here tomorrow
<ScottL> nigelb, capital!  thank you very much
<nigelb> ScottL: heh, what I can I say, I'm lazy ;)
<fabrice_sp> ScottK, what tests did you in Lucid?
<fabrice_sp> sorry, bad ping
<fabrice_sp> ScottL,
<ScottL> fabrice_sp, yes, i tested it locally in lucid
<fabrice_sp> it has to be a new instalation, if I understand correctly the bug report
<ScottL> fabrice_sp, that is correct
<ScottL> i created another lucid install on a new partition to test it
<fabrice_sp> ok. I'll try to reproduce it, and your patch fix it also here, I'll upload to -proposed
<fabrice_sp> deleting the ardour directory in the home is also correct, no?
<ScottL> yes fabrice_sp
<ScottL> fabrice_sp, as per the bug
<fabrice_sp> ok. Sorry for asking, then :-) (I am doing several things at the same time)
<ScottL> fabrice_sp, oh, no...i wasn't chastising, i just wanted to make sure you knew the right directory!  sorry 'bout that
 * fabrice_sp is installing ardour in a lucid chroot
<fabrice_sp> np :-)
<ScottL> i'm multitasking (heh, i just told the other person the same) and profusely apologize for the misrepresentation
<fabrice_sp> don't worry ;-)
<fabrice_sp> argh: it has to be a VM..
<ScottL> fabrice_sp, i'll be in and out with the kids today, i'll keep checking irc throughout the day through
<ScottL> fabrice_sp, this is my first SRU, i hope i'm doing everything correctly ;)
 * shadeslayer wants a SRU too
<shadeslayer> fabrice_sp: poke
<shadeslayer> if someone can SRU bug 565376
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 565376 in desktopcouch "bughugger does not work in kubuntu lucid" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/565376
<shadeslayer> it even has a debdiff ;)
<fabrice_sp> ScottL, all my vms are maverick ones. Sorry: I won't be able to upload your sru
<crimsun_> ScottL: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/ardour/+bug/581786/comments/10
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 581786 in ardour (Ubuntu Lucid) "Mute button not enabled by default in Ardour 2.8.6 Lucid AM64" [High,In progress]
<micahg> if I click retry on 1 arch, does it retry all of them?
<crimsun_> I've always had to iterate through all the desired arches
<micahg> crimsun_: ok, thanks
<ScottL> crimsun_, looking at comment
<ScottL> crimsun_, does that mean it's uploaded for the SRU?
<crimsun_> ScottL: did you receive a "waiting for approval" e-mail?
<crimsun_> ScottL: i.e., you should have
<crimsun_> ScottL: to answer your original question: yes, I uploaded it
<ScottL> crimsun_, i haven't checked email yet, i shall however
<ScottL> crimsun_, also apparently i didn't include changelog update, i shall do that in the future as well
<ScottL> crimsun_, thanks!  :)
<crimsun_> yw
<ubutuser> hello
<ubutuser> someone know how can i see all packages in one category using apt via command line?
<geser> micahg: but there is a script that can give-back a package on all arch (or a subset if desired)
<micahg> geser: I just wanted to give back on one arch to made sure it works
<geser> it can do it too, if you don't want to use the web ui or have to repeat it for several packages
<micahg> geser: k, is that in archive-tools?
<geser> ubuntu-build from u-d-t
<micahg> geser: k, thanks
<geser> it has an old interface which only accepts one package and a new one (--batch) which accepts several packages
<lfaraone> Does ~ubuntu-sru have the ability to approve SRU uploads, or is that part of the Archive Admin team?
<geser> IIRC only AA
<ScottK> If by approve, you mean accept into the archive, it's archive admin.
<ScottK> Except for jdong, I think all ubuntu-sru members are archive admins.
<ScottK> (or at least among the active ones)
<devfil> ScottK, no
<devfil> I'm not
<RoAkSoAx> ScottK: Can you do me a favor? Could you please sync bug #605955 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605955 in cluster-glue (Ubuntu) "Sync cluster-glue 1.0.6-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/605955
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-11
<dholbach> good morning
<ronin___> dholbach: good morning
<ronin___> dholbach: may i ask a question?
<dholbach> ronin___, sure - but you can just ask everybody in here :)
<ronin___> I love to remove esmaeil@esmaeil-Latitude-D630:~$ from mu konsole?
<ronin___> Ok I ask this question from all
<ronin___> how can i do that?
<geser> ronin___: that's more a question for #ubuntu, but edit the variable PS1 in your ~/.bashrc
<dholbach> have a look in your ~/.bashrc for the line with PS1 in there
<dholbach> (save and "source ~/.bashrc" until you're happy)
<ronin___> sorry all but anyone there didn't know unfortunately
<tumbleweed> Laney: I put your UDD tables to use http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi
<Laney> tumbleweed: nice
<Laney> I can't get any results though
<dholbach> tumbleweed, I marked the WI about harvest long descriptions as completed, although I know that a bunch of harvest-data feeds still need to be updated
<dholbach> but at least it's fixed and working in harvest now
<tumbleweed> Laney: hrm
<Laney> tumbleweed: but e.g. select changed_by_name from ubuntu_upload_history where signed_by_name = 'Stefano Rivera' and changed_by_name <> 'Stefano Rivera'; works
<tumbleweed> Laney: what are you searching for when you can't get results?
<tumbleweed> dholbach: I saw, thanks. Sorry I never got anywhere near that one
<dholbach> hopefully somebody gets around fixing the data feeds
<Laney> tumbleweed: oh, wait.
<tumbleweed> dholbach: you are aware that it's not currently possible to debootstrap oneiric? which might make the beginning of ubuntu dev week fun
<Laney> do I have to fill in both fields?
<Laney> I was expecting just giving a sponsor name to list all sponsorships
<tumbleweed> that's easy enough to fix
<Laney> or the other way around
<tumbleweed> just put an * in for now
<Laney> yeah. blank should be equivalent to that
<Laney> works now, but shows me my own uploads
<dholbach> tumbleweed, no, I wasn't - do you know what the issue is there?
<tumbleweed> dholbach: bug 807974 (discussed in #ubuntu-devel earlier, and also on friday (but that might have only been #ubuntu-release))
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807974 in eglibc (Ubuntu Oneiric) "debootstrap fails to install libc6 installing oneiric from natty" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807974
<dholbach> ugh :-(
<tumbleweed> if it isn't sorted out, it'd be easy enough to provide some preprepared pbuilder chroot tarballs
<dholbach> or for now just ask them to set up a natty pbuilder - I don't think we'll build many packages anyway - and subscribe to the bug
<dholbach> tumbleweed, thanks a bunch for the heads-up!
<tumbleweed> np
<tumbleweed> Laney: I can add signed_by_name <> changed_by_name, but that'll probably miss some
<tumbleweed> I assume the one comes from launchpad, the other from the changelog entry
<tumbleweed> so they may not be the same
<tumbleweed> anyway, done now
<tumbleweed> Laney: including origin may be handy, it'd allow identification of syncs. I used to also be able to detect merges from the changelog entries, which can't be done from this data
<Laney> yeah
<jtaylor> tumbleweed: please ack bug 808688
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 808688 in gmsh (Ubuntu) "Sync gmsh 2.5.1~beta1~svn9559~dfsg-2 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/808688
<dupondje> where does requestsync gets its newest version info ?
<jtaylor> argh
<jtaylor> forget that I filed a dup
 * jtaylor must learn to read
<tumbleweed> or I should just stay clear of things you've working on :)
<Laney> bdrung: how did you get packaging-dev backported? did you ping someone?
<papo> hello
<papo> I am wondering what is affecting the inclusion of libclang. There is a clang package but for some reason the library was omitted, see bug 785665.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 785665 in clang (Ubuntu) "libclang is not built" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785665
<dholbach> directhex, ready for UDW later on?
<directhex> dholbach, more or less, yeah.
<dholbach> awesome! :)
<dholbach> thanks directhex
<geser> dupondje: from the Debian "mirror" on LP and/or rmadison (not sure about the first part as I didn't look for some time at the code)
<dupondje> its behind a bit but ok :D
<dupondje> dh clean --buildsystem=ruby --with ruby
<dupondje> dh: unable to load addon ruby: Can't locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/ruby.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.12.4 /usr/local/share/perl/5.12.4 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.12 /usr/share/perl/5.12 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at (eval 23) line 2.
<dupondje> but I can't seem to find ruby.pm anywhere ...
<tumbleweed> dupondje:
<tumbleweed> $ apt-file search Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/ruby.pm
<tumbleweed> gem2deb: /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/ruby.pm
<dupondje> weird
<dupondje> jean-louis@laptop-jl:~/Ubuntu/ruby-tilt-1.2.2$ apt-file search Debhelper/Sequence/ruby.pm
<dupondje> jean-louis@laptop-jl:~
<tumbleweed> (that was on a debian box, it was what I had at hand)
<geser> gem2deb 0.2.5 is in oneiric and published
<geser> dupondje: do you have gem2deb installed?
<geser> Contents-i386.gz  04-May-2011 05:34  19M (from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/)
<geser> dupondje: ^^ that explains why you can't find it with apt-file (or packages.ubuntu.com)
<dupondje> heh ok :)
<dupondje> it works with gem2deb installed indeed
<jtaylor> urg mcrl2 implements c++ templates in a .cpp file, how did that ever compiel
<jtaylor> stupid c++, started two make -j4 builds and now I'm swapping with 4gb ram :(
<tumbleweed> dupondje: are you going to request a sync for archivemail?
<jtaylor> triage 771014 please
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: sounds like you should join bug control
<dupondje> tumbleweed: it needs a separate requestsync bug ?
<dupondje> :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: it doesn't need to be separate, but it does need to look more like a sync request. I modified it a bit
<dupondje> oh ok :)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek Day 1 to kick off in 10 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<jtaylor> ncbi-blast+ seems hard, 20+ libraries and all are underlinked, probably simpler to just disable as-needed for that one
<MysteriousMan> hello how to check if there is Internet connection using c++ ,,, dont  say system(ping -c1..) cuz it slow
<Pici> MysteriousMan: ##C++ would probably be a better place to ask your question.
<Pici> You'll need to be identified to join there though.
<Pici> !register > MysteriousMan
<ubottu> MysteriousMan, please see my private message
<MysteriousMan> <Pici> thanks
<jtaylor> will gcc4.4 be included in oneiric?
<micahg> jtaylor: I think the answer is yes
<jtaylor> 4.6 4.5 and 4.4?
<micahg> it seems that way, I asked a couple months ago and that's the answer I got
<jtaylor> k thx
<bdrung> Laney: no, i waited
<Rhonda> hmm
<Rhonda> what for is the tag fsys-tarfile-error used in launchpad?
<jtaylor> corrupted tarfiles?
<jtaylor> I used to get dpkg errors with broken tarfiles last release cycle a lot
<Rhonda> So they are common and not a result of some diskspace related issues that they deserve their own tag? What is done about them?
<jtaylor> I think there was a problem with tar itself last time
<jtaylor> did not have the errors this cycle yet
<kamal> Hi MOTU people... is there a script that will generate a "request no-change rebuild" bug report for me?
<maxb> I don't think so - but there is very little boilerplate to say in one of those, so I don't think a script would be a help.
<kamal> maxb: sure, I guess I'm wondering who I should subscribe to a request like that:  ubuntu-sponsors ?
<micahg> kamal: you can just file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, add a changelog (use dch -R to create if you want credit in the changelog)
<kamal> micahg: I don't care about credit -- do we even actually need a new changelog?
<micahg> kamal: if you don't care, just file the bug, adding a changelog to the bug make more work for the sponsor
<kamal> micahg: excellent, thanks
<micahg> my last comment should've read: you can just file a bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors, add a changelog (use dch -R to create), if you want credit in the changelog
<kamal> micahg: :-)  got it
<tumbleweed> kamal: if it's a whole bunch of related rebuilds, we should rather set up a transition tracker for it
<kamal> tumbleweed: it was just one (that I'm aware of)
<tumbleweed> oh, ok. You were asking about a script, though :)
<kamal> tumbleweed: for future reference ;-)
<kamal> tumbleweed: (alternately):  because I'm insanely lazy
<tumbleweed> that's a good sign
<kamal> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cqrlog/+bug/808971
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 808971 in cqrlog (Ubuntu) "Request no-change rebuild for Oneiric" [Undecided,New]
<tumbleweed> kamal: ah, if the package failed to build, we don't need a no-change rebuild, we can just retry it, or in debian terms "give it back" to the buildds
<kamal> tumbleweed: I don't understand the distinction between 'rebuild' and 'retry the build'
<tumbleweed> a no-change rebuild is a new source upload
<tumbleweed> if it's already built successfully, we can't just retry it
<dupondje> bleh, can't create a pbuilder for sid :(
<tumbleweed> dupondje: on oneiric?
<dupondje> and lucid :s
<kamal> tumbleweed:  ah, ok -- then in that case, should I have filed the same request but s/rebuild/retry/  ?   i.e. still goes to ubuntu-sponsors?
<tumbleweed> dupondje: I'm suprised
<tumbleweed> kamal: I'm rebuilding i386 now
<tumbleweed> if it looks happy, I'll do the others
<dupondje> http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/csh/csh_20110502-2.dsc
<kamal> dupondje: I use pbuilder-dist for 'unstable'  (not "sid") on Mav and Natty  just fine
<dupondje> wanted to build it on sid
<dupondje> :)
<dupondje> mmm I used 'sid'
<dupondje> lets test with unstable
<tumbleweed> I'm tempted to suggest a newer puilder-dist, I did a fair number of improvements to it in 0.107
<dupondje> i'm giving you guys some work :p
<dupondje> 10 items already in sponsor queue :p
<kamal> tumbleweed: if you're involved with the development of pbuilder-dist, please accept my gratitude!  pbuilder-dist brings me joy on a daily basis :-)
<tumbleweed> well, it was a little empty :)
<tumbleweed> kamal: I just did some recent tweaks, it existed long before I got involved
<dupondje> debootstrap is bit broken
<dupondje> so :
<tumbleweed> dupondje: ah, yeah I just saw it fail too
<tumbleweed> "Encountered a section with no Package: header"?
<dupondje> I: mounting /proc filesystem
<dupondje> mount: /proc already mounted or /var/cache/pbuilder/build//31959/proc busy
<dupondje> mount: according to mtab, /proc is mounted on /proc
<tumbleweed> dupondje: that's similar to what you were seeing the other day?
<dupondje> yep
<dupondje> completely broken somehow :s
<tumbleweed> dupondje: pastebin your .pbuilderrc?
<dupondje> COMPONENTS="main universe multiverse restricted"
<dupondje> :P
<dupondje> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap/+bug/805886
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 805886 in debootstrap (Ubuntu) "/proc does not get umounted after debootstrap" [Undecided,New]
<kamal> tumbleweed: thanks for the cqrlog retries, that did the trick for the platforms where lazarus isn't busted
<dupondje> dol.c:865:6: error: ignoring return value of 'write', declared with attribute warn_unused_result [-Werror=unused-result]
<dupondje> any idea why I get this on oneiric, but not on debian sid when i'm building csh.
 * micahg thought that option was on in sid as well...
<micahg> dupondje: ah, debian might not have -Wall by default
<micahg> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2011/02/msg00012.html
<micahg> err, s/-Wall/-Werror/
<dupondje>             (void) write(STDIN_FILENO, short2str(obuf),
<dupondje> this line gives the error
<dupondje> so better fix that part of the code :D
<micahg> dupondje: you can file a bug against the compiler I guess :)
<jtaylor> debian does not use compiler hardening so far I know
<jtaylor> that includes _wor
<micahg> but that doesn't look very robust though
<jtaylor> -DFORTIFY_SOURCE=2 I think
<kees> jtaylor: debian doesn't do it by default, but individual package maintainers might use it for their packages.
<dupondje> why is it a compiler bug ?
<jtaylor> its not
<dupondje> :)
<kees> micahg: it's not a compiler bug. you can compile with -Wno-error=unused-result to avoid it
<dupondje> or fix the code ofc
<kees> dupondje: the compiler is doing exactly what we asked it to do.
<kees> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CompilerFlags
<jtaylor> the (void) indicates upstream wanted to ignore it there, replace it with if (write(...)) {} to silence the warning
<micahg> kees: I meant that usage that's flagged, the call is cast to a void, so it shouldn't have a return value, right/?
<jtaylor> yes unison failed on armel ._
<jtaylor> .
<kees> micahg: the compiler is not fooled into ignoring it with (void) casts. upstream says that's not a bug, IIRC.
<micahg> kees: ah, smart compiler ;)
<kees> micahg: perhaps overly so. I would prefer the (void) trick, but for whatever reason, upstream doesn't like that.
<kees> jtaylor: better than just {}ing it, see if it's possible to actually do something interesting in the failure case.
<micahg> kees: well, if a function has a return value, then it's meant to do something with it and you end up with non-robust code in general if you ignore it
<kees> right
<jtaylor> kees: of course, but often you just don't care, and that it has that (void) indicates that it is such a case
<jtaylor> hm -2 succeded on arm, with essentially same code
 * micahg thinks people need to be taught to care...
<jtaylor> and it succeded in debian
<dupondje> but doesn't build on oneiric :)
<jtaylor> probably time to look into emulating arm ._.
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: it works pretty well
<tumbleweed> dupondje: I can't debootstrap sid on lucid, but I don't think I'm running into the same bug as you. I can debootstrap wheezy, though, so sid may just be broken atm.
<jtaylor> hm no, I think its hopeless, I have no idea of ocaml and arm
<dupondje> tumbleweed: squeeze worked here, sid/unstable not
<dupondje> its weird :)
<jtaylor> is there a arm emu for packaging tutorial?
<tumbleweed> jtaylor: pbuilder-dist oneiric arm create
<tumbleweed> err armel
<tumbleweed> (assuming you are a pbuilder-dist user :P )
<jtaylor> hm cowbuilder-dist should work too
<jtaylor> nice
<dupondje> mmm next issue: pmake: don't know how to make /usr/lib/libc.a. Stop
<tumbleweed> why is it trying to statically link to libc?
<jtaylor> dupondje: your working on libc? ^^
<dupondje> csh :)
<tumbleweed> still, statically linking...
 * tumbleweed wondedrs what crazy people still use csh
<jtaylor> E: Invalid Release file, no entry for main/binary-arm/Packages
<tumbleweed> dupondje: anyway, vorlon tagged that multiarch, that should be a good hint
<dupondje> tumbleweed: we need new version of pmake :P
<jtaylor> any idea whats problem?
<dupondje> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=626877
<ubottu> Debian bug 626877 in pmake "pmake: Hardcoded paths to libraries breaks multiarch" [Important,Fixed]
<slangasek> tumbleweed, dupondje: "don't know how to make" is the generic make message for "you said this was a dependency and I don't know where to get it" - declaring a dependency on libc is a little weird (I don't think I've ever seen non-BSD-y sources do this), but it's valid, supported, and requires patches to pmake to cope with multiarchitude
<slangasek> I think Debian unstable has this patch now - I don't know if it's in oneiric yet
<dupondje> pmake in unstable has patches indeed
<dupondje> and can be synced ...
<dupondje> could you sync it ? or do I report a sync request ?
<dupondje> slangasek: ?
<slangasek> dupondje: sync request, please; the package currently has an Ubuntu delta that I haven't looked at
<dupondje> ok
<dupondje> done
<dupondje> tumbleweed: going tru my requests ? ;)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: the easy ones. embedian-crush has a big  delta, so I'll skip it and go to bed
<tumbleweed> dupondje: what's the reason for the darcs-monitor sync request? (in fact a few of them could have used better explatations)
<tumbleweed> ah, I see it currently ftbfs in oneiric
<dupondje> its ftbfs
<dupondje> indeed
<dupondje> alot of them are ftbfs
<dupondje> thats why sync reqs
<tumbleweed> dupondje: if helps if you say that in the report. One assumes reporters have good reasons for doing things, but it really does help when evaluating
<dupondje> tumbleweed: I'll do that!
<tumbleweed> thanks :)
<tumbleweed> anyway, I've left you with some to fix up
<dupondje> +++ php-ps-1.3.6/debian/ps.ini
<dupondje> @@ -0,0 +1,2 @@
<dupondje> +; configuration for php ps module
<dupondje> +extension=ps.so
<dupondje>    * Replace '#' by ';' in ps.ini, because it is deprecated
<dupondje> that debian bug can be closed it seems :)
<tumbleweed> dupondje: you can do that :)
<dupondje> yea done it
<papo> hello
<papo> I am wondering what is affecting the inclusion of libclang. There is a clang package but for some reason the library was omitted, see bug 785665.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 785665 in clang (Ubuntu) "libclang is not built" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785665
<papo> I would offer to provide a patch to build an additional package containing the library but if this is out of question in the first place it's not worth doing it
<micahg> papo: see debian 598738
<ubottu> Debian bug 598738 in src:clang "Package libclang libs and headers" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/598738
<dupondje> but if you install clang
<dupondje> you have libclang.so
<dupondje> /usr/bin/install -c /build/buildd/clang-2.9/build-clang/Release/lib/libclang.so /build/buildd/clang-2.9/debian/tmp-clang/usr/lib/libclang.so
<micahg> papo: you can as Sylvestre if he's interested in patches
<micahg> *ask
<papo> micahg: Hm OK that bug seems to be about the static libs but goes into the same direction... I'm interested in the .so, though... so the answer is just "it's complicated an needs time" ?
<micahg> papo: that bug is for all of it
<papo> dupondje: OK interesting, I have to check that quickly. The natty package most certainly does not but maybe it was included later on
<micahg> unless I'm not understanding something
<papo> micahg: the bug description mentions static libs and some header files but yeah, probably the same issue
 * micahg wonders if it's possible to have a -dev package w/out an actual library
<broder> micahg: i've seen one where the library wasn't available as a shared lib
<jtaylor> possible yes
<jtaylor> python-cxx-dev
<jtaylor> thats just a bunch of source files as upstream does not provide a library
<papo> dupondje: Which version of the clang package are you referring to? I find myself unable to locate the shared lib in clang (2.9-7)
<papo> dupondje: or was this from the build log? not everything that is compiled gets packaged (that is actually my problem...)
<dupondje> was from build log indeed
<papo> hm ok
<papo> micahg: well the debian bug report suggests that the library should be packaged, too, but Sylvestre just doesn't have time to do it currently, so I guess patches are welcomed after all
<papo> but I'm not quite sure what is supposed to make the thing complicated, the library gets built, it's just a matter of extending some debian/ files as far as I can see... in the end things will not be as the maintainer wants them to be and the time spent will have been in vain :(
<micahg> papo: right, that's why I suggested talking to sylvestre
<papo> right
<papo> micahg: is that guy a regular IRC user by chance?
<micahg> he's around some times
<papo> OK nice
 * micahg has no idea when though
<papo> no problem, I'll just hang around... now is the second time this month that I though that having the library at hands could be helpful, a couple of more days and my needs will exceed my lazyness-threshold anyway
<micahg> papo: you could send an e-mail :)
<papo> yep, or follow-up on the bug report, I know :)
<papo> anyway, I guess I'll just dig into it and once I have something that could potentially help him with the bug I'll post it or maybe even be able to catch him here... thank you for your insights, micahg
<jtaylor> ScottK: do we really still need this delta: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/matplotlib/0.99.1.2-2ubuntu2? qt3 is still in the archive
<ScottK> jtaylor: No.  It looks like someone from Debian Science may adopt qt3, so it's not going to die as soon as I thought when I did that.
<jtaylor> k then I'll sync matplotlib dropping it
<jtaylor> I'll quote you in the bug k?
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-12
<pindonga> hi, I just wanted to know what I need to do to get a package updated for oneiric
<pindonga> in particular, how can I get the source pacakge (in ubuntu) track a differnent upstream connection (so that it tracks the one that gets updates)
<micahg> pindonga: which package/
<pindonga> hi micahg : python-configglue
<pindonga> I'm the main dev, and I'd like to get the latest into oneiric
<ajmitch> pindonga: I thought that package was being maintained as part of the ubuntuone packages?
<ajmitch> mostly because they're the main user of it
<pindonga> ajmitch, that's how it started
<pindonga> but the proyect evolved
<pindonga> and now has it's own life :)
<ajmitch> that's good :)
<pindonga> at ISD we use it heavily
<pindonga> that's why it evolved (actually two projects merged into one, and configglue kept the name)
<ajmitch> are there any backwards-incompatible changes that'd break the current packages that use it?
<pindonga> it's likely
<pindonga> but otoh, the ubuntuone guys are using the latest from a daily ppa
<pindonga> for dev
<ajmitch> that'll make things tricky then, if U1 is still using 0.9 for oneiric
<ajmitch> ah ok
<pindonga> is there a way to get the list of all packages that depend on it?
<pindonga> so that I can ask around?
<ajmitch> apt-cache rdepends python-configglue
<pindonga> that on oneiric I guess
<ajmitch> yes (which I don't have running right now)
<pindonga> me neither
<pindonga> let's say I can get an ok from all the users
<pindonga> what shall I do next?
<ajmitch> I'd be happy to update it, I uploaded it to debian
<pindonga> ajmitch, ok, I'll ping you then when I have confirmation from the u1 guys that it works alright in oneiric
<pindonga> and maybe from someone else
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> I'll get an updated package ready for it then
<ajmitch> I'm guessing that there shouldn't be many changes needed from what's in the branch
<pindonga> ajmitch, cool
<micahg> pindonga: I'll give you a list...one sec
<ajmitch> micahg: thanks
<pindonga> ajmitch, my intention is to get the 1.0 release before oneiric, but since I'm not sure I'll pull it off at least I want it to be a bit more updated
<pindonga> :)
<pindonga> micahg, cool, thx
<pindonga> that's the reason there are many changes since 0.9pre1
<micahg> pindonga: http://paste.ubuntu.com/642279/
<ajmitch> python-django-configglue, also not updated for a couple of releases
<pindonga> ajmitch, yes, that one will get an update too (I'm also the author of that)
<ajmitch> alright
<pindonga> so, only django-configglue and ubuntuone-client it seems
<pindonga> I'll confirm the u1-client tomorrow morning
<pindonga> django-configglue will be ready tomorrow too
<ajmitch> that should be easy enough to confirm & check
<micahg> pindonga: so, to get it updated, file a bug w/a debdiff or prepare a merge proposal into the UDD branch lp:ubuntu/foo
<micahg> if you go the bug route, you'll need to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
<ajmitch> micahg: I need to update the package in debian anyway, so I offered to look at it
<micahg> ajmitch: ah, cool
<pindonga> micahg, ajmitch thanks a lot
<pindonga> ajmitch, I'll ping you tomorrow
<ajmitch> np
<benonsoftware> Hi all
<aboudreault> Hi
<aboudreault> If we do a security release for our major software versions... can we replace the package in hardy and other dists
<aboudreault> or we have to do manual security package with a single patch
<micahg> aboudreault: we generally do a minimal patch update for security issues
<aboudreault> ok..
<micahg> aboudreault: you just need to file a bug, attach a patch, (make it private if the issue is private still), and subscribe ubuntu-security-sponsors
<aboudreault> last time, I did the package myself. I guess I can attach a debdiff
<micahg> aboudreault: that would be great, there's a security person available most days in #ubuntu-hardened if you have specific questions regarding security updates
<aboudreault> alright. thanks
<dholbach> good morning
<_Dreamer_> Good morning dholbach :)
<dholbach> hey _Dreamer_
<_Dreamer_> What's up dholbach ?
<dholbach> _Dreamer_, still slowly waking up - how 'bout you?
<_Dreamer_> I'm looking for Pythin to make my OO concepts strong.
<dholbach> nice, good luck with that! :)
<_Dreamer_> Thank you dholbach :)
<jykae> dev day 2, rock y'all :)
<jykae> we will gather locally here in Tampere, Finland
<jykae> here http://www.demola.fi
<jykae> actually a start for our local meetups :)
<dholbach> bdrung, can you review my fix for 798972?
<dholbach> bdrung, I mentioned packaging-dev at UDW yesterday!
<pindonga> morning ajmitch , k we're good to go with python-configglue
<pindonga> the u1 guys said they're going to test it once it landed on oneiric (they're using a custom build of 0.11+r65 right now, so it should work)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek Day 2 starting in 23 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<dupondje> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75058147/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.libdispatch_0~svn197-3_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dupondje> this is something in libc6-dev ?
<dupondje> :s
<jtaylor> linux-libc-dev
<dupondje> but thats included as build-dep
<jtaylor> does clang have multi arch support?
<bdrung> dholbach: looks good. maybe change the order (but that can be done later)
<dholbach> bdrung, thanks
<bdrung> dholbach: i wasn't aware that i should reviewed it (unless you said it)
<bdrung> s/unless/until/
<dholbach> I thought that everybody on the team would get an email about it? or at least the team list?
<dupondje> jtaylor: it builds fine on amd64
<bdrung> dholbach: i got the bug mails, but no merge proposal
<dholbach> hm, weird
<tumbleweed> dholbach: packaging-guide team?
<dholbach> tumbleweed, yes
<dupondje> + if (Distro == DebianWheezy && Arch == getArch())
<dupondje> not really cool :P
<tumbleweed> dholbach: that has ubuntu-dev as a member, and ubuntu-dev receives no mail from launchpad, IIRC
<jasonb1> hi again dholbach = )
<tumbleweed> I mean, it doesn't have real members, only ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-core-doc (which probably does get mail)
<dholbach> hi jasonb1
<dholbach> ah ok
<dholbach> still there's a team mailing list :)
<tumbleweed> right, /me should probably subscribe
<dholbach> yoohoo
 * dholbach hugs tumbleweed and bdrung
<dupondje> jtaylor: https://bugs.launchpad.net/llvm/+bug/764870 => so clang should be multiarch :s
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 764870 in LLVM "clang doesn't know about multiarch" [Medium,Confirmed]
<jtaylor> its incomplete http://launchpadlibrarian.net/72509068/clang_2.9-1~exp1_2.9-1.diff.gz
<jtaylor> only search 486 and 686 but not 386
<jtaylor> tools/clang/lib/Frontend/InitHeaderSearch.cpp
<dupondje> mmm indeed :s
<jtaylor> lets see if sylvestre is there
<Laney> ScottK: is kdebindings going away in Ubuntu?
<ScottK> Laney: It's being split.
<Laney> yeah, going away in its current form.
<ScottK> Yes.
<Laney> great
<ScottK> I'm not sure all the existing bindings will get packaged by Debian qt-kde or Kubuntu people.
<ScottK> For example, I'm virtually certain no one on either team will do the mono bindings.
<Laney> I imagine they would only get done on demand
<dupondje> jtaylor: you stalk the maintainer ? :) If I do need to open a bug on debian, let me know :)
<jtaylor> dupondje: k
<dupondje> thanks for looking btw :)
<dupondje> Hi i'm trying to merge mysql++, but I got some issue (http://paste.ubuntu.com/642863/).
<dupondje> On Ubuntu its build with 'g++ -o test_ssqls2 test_ssqls2_ssqls2.o    -L. -lmysqlclient   -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions -L/usr/lib64  -lmysqlpp -lmysqlpp_ssqls2parse '
<dupondje> But on Debian with: 'g++ -o test_ssqls2 test_ssqls2_ssqls2.o    -L. -lmysqlclient   -L/usr/lib64  -lmysqlpp -lmysqlpp_ssqls2parse'
<dupondje> -Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions should be at the end, but don't know really where to start :)
<dupondje> its Bakefile ...
<jtaylor> dupondje: its just a ordering issue
<jtaylor> mysqlpp_ssqls2parse is a static library
<dupondje> thats needs to come in front of -Wl ?
<dupondje> or ?
<jtaylor> no in front of -lmysqlpp
<jtaylor> maybe also move -lmysqlclient to the end just to be save
<dupondje> lets see how I can fix this :)
<dupondje> aight :D It did build
<dupondje> thx jtaylor
<dupondje> but small question, how you see its a static lib exactly? And why does it need to be in front :)
<jtaylor> it has a .a extension
<jtaylor> static libraries are just an archive of object files, so the same rule as for regular object files applies
<jtaylor> often static libraries are not linked with -l to distinguish them from shared ones, but thats different from develoepr to developer
<jtaylor> instead you just use the full patch, which makes exactly this issue more obvious
<dupondje> jtaylor: http://ubuntu.dupondje.be/mysql.debdiff
<dupondje> does that looks fine? It builds
<jtaylor> dupondje: why build egainst 16-dev? wouldn't -dev do?
<dupondje> in previous version it was: debian/control: Explicitly build against libmysqlclient16-dev.
<jtaylor> yes, but -dev pulls in 16
<jtaylor> I'm unfamilier with mysql versionen, you have to ask somene else
<dupondje> well it shouldn't be linked against 15-dev
<dupondje> then you can indeed choose -dev or 16-dev
<dupondje> both are same
<jtaylor> in debian versioned -dev's are being discouraged as they complicate transitions
<jtaylor> but mysql might be a special case
<dupondje> well shouldn't matter alot no ?
<jtaylor> probably not
<jtaylor> don't forget to forward the patch to debian
<jtaylor> + upstream
<dupondje> its not ftbfs on debian ...
<dupondje> still forward ?
<jtaylor> yes as wishlist
<jtaylor> with: User: debian-gcc@lists.debian.org
<jtaylor> Usertags: ld-as-needed
<dupondje> oki
<dupondje> btw a small question, is there a tool to upload files directly to launchpad from commandline ?
<dupondje> cause i'm building packages on a build box now :)
<Laney> email
<dupondje> ah, didn't check launchpad's email api yet :)
<Laney> for bug attachments, just email nnn@bugs.launchpad.net and attach the file
<pindonga> ajmitch, are you around here?
<dupondje> seems like alot of sponsor requests from me :P
<dupondje> hehe
<ajmitch> pindonga: yes, sort of
<pindonga> hey! :)
<pindonga> I have the go from the u1 guys for python-configglue
<ajmitch> alright
<Laney> uh oh
<pindonga> ajmitch, they are already using 0.11
<pindonga> so it should be alright
<ajmitch> Laney: what'd you break this time?
<ajmitch> pindonga: is there a release of django-configglue as well to match it?
<pindonga> ajmitch, there will be , but not yet
<dupondje> allright :) done for today
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-13
<ronin___> hi
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<iulian> Early start today? :)
<dholbach> hi iulian
<dholbach> iulian, yep, had to take the dog to the vet
<dupondje> 23 bugs waiting for sponsorship :D ohhh
<dupondje> sorry for the workload :D
<tumbleweed> dupondje: if they are fixing problems, then it's good workload, \o/
<geser> dupondje: keep up the workload and soon your sponsors get bored uploading for you and urge you to apply for MOTU :)
<Laney> after DIF, I urge you to explain in your sync requests /why/ a sync is necessary though
 * tumbleweed has been trying to urge that already :)
<tumbleweed> archive admins presumably don't need to see reasons, they just do the sync, but sponsors need to understand why it's a good idea
<jtaylor> dupondje: no anwser from sylveste concerning clang yet, better file a bug
<dupondje> tumbleweed: most of sync's are because ubuntu delta is now in debian, so we can sync that.
<dupondje> normally I noted that ... :)
<geser> dupondje: why sync it now and not later?
<dupondje> geser: how you mean 'later' ?
<Laney> there's "why can we drop the delta?" and "why do we need the rest of the changes?"
<Laney> i.e. if there was no delta, would you still be requesting the sync?
<geser> dupondje: in the future when there is an upload with useful changes
<dupondje> well its better to be in sync with debian again.
<dupondje> even if there are no other changes
<geser> we shouldn't sync when the only difference is that we don't have the delta anymore (and no other useful (for Ubuntu) changes are included)
<geser> dupondje: why? what's the benefit of being in sync right now?
<dupondje> that it won't need to be checked a second time ?
<dupondje> jtaylor: made a bug
<jtaylor> number?
<dupondje> just mailed :) no number yet
<dupondje> jtaylor: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633739
<ubottu> Debian bug 633739 in clang "clang is not fully multiarch" [Normal,Open]
<tumbleweed> you can also just note in MoM that $VER removes the need for any ubuntu delta, and sync it next cycle
 * tumbleweed tends to just do the sync straight away (before FF), but there's also no sponsor-time involved
<jtaylor> dupondje: you should give more information on the bug, the architecture where it fails, the folder where the header is, the LP bug you showed me and the apparent problem in the patch for that bug
<dupondje> jtaylor: added
<jtaylor> is dvipng installable on armel? (can't test myself due do libc bug :( )
<ogra_> libc bug ?
<jtaylor> W: Failure trying to run:  dpkg --force-depends --install /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6_2.13-9ubuntu2_armel.deb
<tumbleweed> that's more a base-files bug than anything else. jtaylor: You should be able to work around it by creating /var/run
<jtaylor> I have var/run
<tumbleweed> in the chroot you are debootstrapping?
<jtaylor> where is that with -dist?
<jtaylor> found it
<jtaylor> seems to work, thx
<jtaylor> ok I can't install anything
<dholbach> UDW (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek) day 3 starting in 23 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<dupondje> micahg: fixed sox :)
<micahg> dupondje: great!
<micahg> dupondje: can you fix the weird space changes in the changelog as well?
<dupondje> huh where ? :) it looks fine from here ?
<micahg> dupondje: last 7 or 8 sections in the changelog part of the diff
<dupondje> ah
<dupondje> I see that also
<dupondje> grab-merge did that
<micahg> dupondje: you probably inherited it from someone else :)
<dupondje> fixe
<dupondje> d
<broder> debian's armhf is the same architecture as armel, right? i.e. if something works on armel, it should work on armhf (though the reverse might not necessarily be true)?
<micahg> broder: idk, but this link was just posted in #debian-derivitives: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort
<tumbleweed> broder: if you are asking about reptyr, there aren't any armhf porterboxes, so I can't test
<dupondje> micahg: could you ACK the merge ?
<micahg> dupondje: not right now, jdstrand is piloting though, maybe he could look at it
<dupondje> ok :)
<Laney> ~
<jdstrand> I'll look at it
<jdstrand> dupondje: ^
<dupondje> thx jdstrand  :) I gave you some work hÃ©hÃ©
<jdstrand> you did!
<jdstrand> dupondje: thanks for all your hard work :)
<dupondje> the goal is an empty ftbfs list and empty MoM :p
<broder> tumbleweed: it looks like the person that filed that bug is leading the armhf porting effort, so i'm going to assume that he knows what he's talking about
<broder> (or at least his company)
<tumbleweed> broder: ah, I didn't see the bug
 * tumbleweed should subscribe to packages I sponsor... but I trust broder :)
 * dupondje is giving jdstrand some work again :p
<dupondje> tumbleweed: ?
<tumbleweed> dupondje: yeah?
<dupondje> youre working on python-djvulibre in debian ?
<tumbleweed> I reviewed the most recent upload, I do regular review/sponsorship in debian-python
<dupondje> well wanted to sync it
<dupondje> but its ftbfs
<dupondje> also in debian
<tumbleweed> yay :/
<Quintasan> tumbleweed: Python magic ;)
<dupondje> http://paste.ubuntu.com/643556/
<tumbleweed> it built fine two weeks ago
<tumbleweed> dupondje: builds for me on sid
<tumbleweed> but yes, I see the FTBFS on oneiric
<dupondje> weird pbuilder fails here on debian unstable
<tumbleweed> dupondje: my local mirror is about 20 hours stale. /me tries against archive.u.c
<tumbleweed> err, debian
<dupondje> well mine wasn't up-to-date
<dupondje> updating & trying again
<dupondje> nope fails again
<tumbleweed> dupondje: err that's just a stripped translation problem. it's expecting a translated error message, but the lang-packs aren't installed on buildds. I still have no idea why you can replicate it in sid
<dupondje> also using pbuilder? Any idea btw how to fix it on ubuntu ?
<tumbleweed> either we need to add the lang-pack as a build-dep, or skip that test (or patch that test). None of those are ideal for forwarding to debian, and the upstream author probably isn't interested either.
<dupondje> anywaygtg now
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-14
<ScottK> tumbleweed: Debian doesn't strip translations like we do, so why would the issue be relevant to Debian.
<ronin___> hi
<tumbleweed> ScottK: exactly
<tumbleweed> (but it would be nice to have a solution where the package could be kept in sync)
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Good morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<jykae> hey o/
<helpcrypto> hi
<helpcrypto> can you tell me why im getting this: dpkg-gencontrol: warning: can't parse dependency openssl (>= 0.9.8g)?
<directhex> helpcrypto, pastebin your debian/control
<helpcrypto> give a sec
<helpcrypto> sorry for the delay, someone phoned
<helpcrypto> directhex: here you are: http://pastebin.com/1f2HyCsF
<directhex> helpcrypto, try removing the #DEPS line.
<helpcrypto> ok.
<helpcrypto> worked, but isnt that a comment?
<helpcrypto> why it failed?
<jtaylor> Lines starting with # without any preceding whitespace are comments
<jtaylor> that line has a space in front
<jtaylor> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-controlsyntax
<helpcrypto> ok
<helpcrypto> ill note that
<helpcrypto> thx
<helpcrypto> i try to be standard compliant
<helpcrypto> but i missed that
<soren> helpcrypto: Right, so what dpkg was trying to parse was effectively: "Depends: libpcsclite1 (>= 1.4.99), openssl (>= 0.9.8g) #DEPS"
<helpcrypto> what makes me doubt was, that it sucessfully build for 32
<helpcrypto> but didnt for 64
<helpcrypto> (same version of equivs)
<helpcrypto> btw
<helpcrypto> is a chroot environment the only way to build 32 and 64 on the same computer?
<jtaylor> its the easiest
<jtaylor> you can install 32 and 64 bit libraries and cross compile
<helpcrypto> i have to do it one day, actually im changing from vm to vm
<helpcrypto> and, even more...changing from distro to distro
<jtaylor> use pbuilder/cowbuilder/sbuild, very fast
<helpcrypto> i use equivs for .deb and rpm-build for redhat
<helpcrypto> and makefiles for 32 nd 64
<helpcrypto> (i like the way osx does, with many architectures on a single binary)
<jtaylor> osx has many architectures?
<jtaylor> I though they only have one
<helpcrypto> nop
<helpcrypto> i386, x64, ppc...
<jtaylor> btw when everything is multi-arched cross compiling will get a bit easier
<jtaylor> although there are still some issues to be resolved
<jtaylor> I was under the impression that apple's main advantage is that they onls support one architecture
 * jtaylor I never used mac
<helpcrypto> my code is cross-platform
<helpcrypto> but, for example, packages/libraries are named different  among distros
<helpcrypto> so i have to build different packages
<helpcrypto> ok
<helpcrypto> lot of thx
<helpcrypto> cya!
<hakermania> Hello, if an application is installing a new mime type, where should the icon(s) of this new mime type be placed? I used /usr/share/icons/oxygen/(XxX)/mimetypes/ for my application and worked but im not sure...
<hakermania> and i've asked at #ubuntu-packaging but no answers at all, like they're dead or something :P
<dholbach> Ubuntu Developer Week Day 4 starting in 25 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek)
<hakermania> Anyway, I found an answer at packaging channel
<hakermania> hicolor is the right path
<MadCow108> whats the background color of default konsole in ubuntu?
<MadCow108> kde konsole, not gnome
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-15
<MadCow108> (yes I am in the process of installing it, but my connection is slow, you have plenty of time to answer this for me before its finished ;) )
<MadCow108> we its finished, its black
<dholbach> good morning
<sagaci> kinda going around in circles, I've fixed a bug in xine-lib, branching from lp:xine-lib, do I need to change the changelog file for such a small change or will it be somehow aggregated with other small changes by the actual "uploader" or merger
<persia> sagaci: It depends on your goal, really.
<persia> If you branched lp:xine-lib and want to push it upstream, then changelog likely doesn't matter much.
<persia> That would be added by the person integrating the change.
<persia> (note that lp:xine-lib is automatically imported from the CVS repo on sourceforge)
<sagaci> i'll try to describe, fixing a small bitesize typo, with the aim of it going  upstream or at least into sid/oneiric
<persia> If you want to change the package in Ubuntu, you'd want to start with lp:ubuntu/xine-lib
<persia> If you want to be the uploader (even being sponsored), then you'd be expected to prepare the changelog, etc.  Everything necessary for upload.
<sagaci> thanks, i'll try doing it that way
<persia> If you aren't concerned, then you don't have to do anything other than ask for a merge, and someone else will integrate.
<persia> If it's just a typo, then it's better to send upstream.
<sagaci> but how do you bzr push a change without a proper changelog entry
<persia> I'd recommend using `bzr diff` to generate a patch, and sending it to the upstream list (xine-devel at lists.sourceforge.net)
<persia> `bzr commit` then `bzr push`
<persia> Note that if you do this, you need to specify a revision for `bzr diff -r ${REVISION}` when preparing the upstream patch.
<sagaci> righteo, i'll try that bzr diff
<dupondje> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/644718/ => somebody an idea on this ?
<dupondje> cmake broke or ?
<jtaylor> dupondje: which package?
<dnivra> Hello. I was working on packaging open teacher(LP:#682582) for Ubuntu 11.04. I was told from here to get it included in Debian and it would be synced into Ubuntu. But, Debian didn't seem interested in including open teacher in their repos(http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2011/03/msg00002.html) and upstream don't plan to change the name either(private email). Isn't it possible to upload the package into Ubuntu repositories witho
<dupondje> acoustid-fingerprinter
<dnivra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/682852 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 682852 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] OpenTeacher" [Wishlist,In progress]
<jtaylor> dnivra: I don't see that this package was denied int hat thread?
<jtaylor> just some discussion over the name
<jtaylor> I think its not to generic, so first come first serve
<jtaylor> are there other projects named openteacher?
<dnivra> no there's no other project with the same name AFAIK. Checked via google too.
<dnivra> Well they had a discussion over the name and I gathered they weren't interested unless the name's changed. I didn't pursue the issue after that :).
<dnivra> (The discussion sounded like it was going to be a no to me)
<Laney> just post again arguing for the current name
<Laney> the fact that they have a domain and lots of google hits speaks in favour
<jtaylor> dnivra: I only see some concern from wo peopl and I do not see their point
<jtaylor> maybe speak to some people in #debian-edu
<dnivra> jtaylor: I don't see their point either. I asked for a clarification on what exactly they had a problem with and they never got back to me on the issue. heading to #debian-edu now.
<dnivra> Laney: sure. will do :).
<dupondje> jtaylor: acoustid-fingerprinter
<jtaylor> I'll have a look soon
<dupondje> ok :D
<jtaylor> dupondje: workaround here http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=632870
<ubottu> Debian bug 632870 in acoustid-fingerprinter "acoustid-fingerprinter: Does not build" [Normal,Open]
<jtaylor> but that it does not find it in the first place may indeed be a cmake bug
<jtaylor> hm no wait that workaround may be wrong
<dupondje> I saw that workaround, but doesn't look very clean. And Cmake should work imo
<dupondje> got cmake open in a pbuilder now, so if you need some trace output ^^
<jtaylor> maybe a missing b-d
<dupondje> Removed QtConcurrent from find_packages in CMakeList.txt
<dupondje> that fixed it
<jtaylor> yes but it may be wrnong
<dupondje> yea true
<dupondje> but QtConcurrent should be in libqt4-dev ? :s
<jtaylor> its in qtcreator, I wonder why
<dupondje> even with qtcreator installed cmake fails tho
<jtaylor> the debian bug should probably be increased to RC
<dupondje> or debian should get 0.2-1 :)
<dupondje> fixed both bugs :p
<dnivra> well none in the Debian Edu channel are responding. I've emailed the list-hope they respond. I would like to know if it's still possible to upload the package to Ubuntu in case Debian doesn't respond in time for feature freeze. The developer would really like it to be included :)
<dupondje> jtaylor: Developper of the package is on freenode also, going to poke him :)
<dupondje> btw, how to name a package version between 0.2 and 0.3. Source is just the current HEAD
<dupondje> no 0.3 out yet
<dupondje> package-0.3~gitc53005affbd184f6b598 ?
<jtaylor> no
<jtaylor> package-0.3~YYYYMMDD and mention the commitin the changelog
<dupondje> and no -0ubuntu1 ?
<jtaylor> that too
<jtaylor> maybe you can add a shortened git hash too, but it should stay below 80 characters
<dupondje> acoustid-fingerprinter-0.3~20110715-0ubuntu1
<dupondje> this would be fine for example ?
<jtaylor> does it make sense to use a git snapshot?
<jtaylor> can't you just backport the one commit that fixes the issue?
<dupondje> In the very last commit QtConcurrent got dropped
<dupondje> and alot of things fixed
<dupondje> but anyway i'll ask the developper first
<dupondje> when QtConcurrent can be dropped
<dupondje> But the git versions builds fine ^^
<dupondje> Some package is missing a build dep, which causes ftbfs
<dupondje> upload fix yet to ubuntu ? or wait for debian ?
<jtaylor> depends, is it a package that needs exposure to testing now? was it just a rebuild that failed and the same version is already downloadable?
<jtaylor> in general I'd wait for debian a few weeks first if its not urgent
<dupondje> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bochs/2.4.6-2
<persia> dupondje, So, if you find something like that, it's best to test-build in a Debian chroot.
<dupondje> I did, failed there also :)
<persia> If the test build works, and you can replicate the failure in Ubuntu (with the same source package), check the dependencies.
<persia> If the test build fails in Debian, fix it, and send the fix to the Debian BTS.
<persia> Before DIF, it's often worth just waiting, but after DIF, unless you have a relationship with the Debian maintainer, it's often easier to just upload in Ubuntu.
<persia> Mind you, if Debian adopts it, merging to get back in sync later is handy.
<dupondje> I bugreported on debian already
<persia> (and if you are a little slow about fixing it in Ubuntu because you're hoping the maintainer applies it, that's understandable as well).
<persia> Ah, cool.
<dupondje> its just adding 'jade' as build depend
<dupondje> so that should be easy for them :D
<persia> I just saw advice to "wait for debian a few weeks", and without the context, that sounded a bit uncooperative.
<persia> Is jade needed for all architectures, or just the "all" architecture?
<dupondje> I guess the 'all' one
<dupondje> as building docs fail because of it
<persia> So, on the buildds, it works on armel, amd64, powerpc, but fails for i386?
<dupondje> y
<persia> Then you want to upload to Ubuntu.
<persia> That's a bug in Debian, but not one that lots of maintainers care much about.
<persia> Many maintainers build the "all" packages on their local system, and don't remember to add stuff to Build-Depends-Indep.
<persia> Also, double-check the patch to the BTS: that belongs in the Build-Depends-Indep: header, rather than the Build-Depends: header (as it's only required for architecture independent building).
<dupondje> btw, pbuilder does the build indep also ?
<dupondje> no matter the arch
<persia> I think there's a switch to turn that on or off.
<persia> But not being a pbuilder user, I'm really not sure.
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bochs/+bug/766024 => patch added
<dupondje> :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 766024 in bochs (Ubuntu Oneiric) "bochs version 2.4.5-1 failed to build on i386" [High,Confirmed]
<geser> dupondje: without an option pbuilder acts like a "i386" buildd (builds both the arch dep and arch indep packages) but there is an option (--binary-arch) to just build the arch dep packages
<dupondje> geser: thx !
<DorianJaminais> Hi guys !
<DorianJaminais> I am trying to package a small game written in C++ with Code::Blocks
<DorianJaminais> Is there any way to make the packaging tool work with the codeblock projects ?
<DorianJaminais> maybe by adding something to the rules files
<dholbach> Last day of UDW (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek) starting in 15 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
<Rhonda> Ah! Thanks for the reminder. Almost forgot about DMB!
<Rhonda> Hope network is really fine in Banja Luka on monday :)
<Laney> oh yeah, that reminds me
<Rhonda> No, *that* reminds me:
<Rhonda> REM Jul 18 2011 AT 21:00 DURATION 1:00 +5 MSG PPU Application #ubuntu-meeting %c
<Laney> just incase I don't make it :-)
 * Rhonda likes wyrd :)
<jtaylor> yey libgmpada updatew fixed the wishlist --as-needed bug but ignored the two ftbs RC bugs ._.
<tumbleweed> who says binary uploads require the uploader to ensure it builds :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: around?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: yeah
<bdrung> tumbleweed: we need to fix backportpackage. the bug is going on my nerve
<tumbleweed> heh
<bdrung> bug #801945
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 801945 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[backportpackage] Fails to backport local .dsc file" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/801945
<bdrung> that's a regression
<bdrung> we need test cases for that
<bdrung> tumbleweed: is bug #810974 a bug in debootstrap?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 810974 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "pbuilder-dist fails for sid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810974
<tumbleweed> the local .dsc thing sounds like something I can do easily
<tumbleweed> I was going to ask for more info on the debootstrap one
<bdrung> tumbleweed: including a testcase?
<tumbleweed> it could also be that sid is just broken
<tumbleweed> the test case is tricker, because then we have to be sure not to hit launchpadlib on those code paths
<bdrung> tumbleweed: a online test would be sufficient
<tumbleweed> or just stub them out
 * tumbleweed has a look
<bdrung> tumbleweed: stub them out?
<tumbleweed> use mox to intercept them
<bdrung> aha
<tumbleweed> bdrung: I just successfully pbuilder-dist created sid on oneiric
<bdrung> tumbleweed: and on natty?
<tumbleweed> that requires a vm, coming up...
<tumbleweed> oh, actually it wasn't successful, ran into dupondje's /proc issue
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: the issue is in util-linux (the binary package is 'mount'), downgrading just mount to the previous version fixes the proc issue.
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: (for some reason umount ignores $PWD and tries to umount /proc, instead of the $CHROOT/proc)
<tumbleweed> ah
<Ampelbein> I should probably add my findings to the bug report.
<tumbleweed> that'd be helpful, esp as I recall util-linux uploads recently, due to /run
<Ampelbein> oh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debootstrap/+bug/805886/comments/3, colin already added basically the same.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 805886 in debootstrap (Ubuntu) "/proc does not get umounted after debootstrap" [Undecided,New]
<tumbleweed> Ampelbein: it's still assigned to debootstrap
<tumbleweed> (the debian bug too)
<Ampelbein> tumbleweed: changed the ubuntu package to util-linux with a comment.
<tumbleweed> thanks
<pindonga> hey ajmitch
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-16
<hakermania> Hello there, when trying to compile my application to the testing ubuntu 11.10 oneiric I face this bug: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=624950 ... which is from Mon, 2 May 2011, 2 months old... So, in the end it says 'the patch has been integrated to SVN trunk.', which means that it should be the fix in the newest version, right? I hope I post in the right channel
<ubottu> Debian bug 624950 in libcv-dev "libcv-dev: error: 'ptrdiff_t' does not name a type" [Serious,Fixed]
<hakermania> Yes :) thanks ubottu (bot, right :P ?) It is fixed, but is it released?
<jtaylor> yes fixed in debian
<jtaylor> but that version does not seem to be in ubuntu yet
<jtaylor> on the other hand it was fixed in oneiric 2 hours ago too
<jtaylor> bug 791527
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 791527 in OpenCV Manager "libcv-dev: error: 'ptrdiff_t' does not name a type" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791527
<jtaylor> weird that it wasn't merged instead
<hakermania> jtaylor: Should I update my system? (apt-get update)
<jtaylor> hakermania: yes but it might not been published yet
<jtaylor> e.g. armel is still building
<jtaylor> if it doesn't update wait a few hours
<hakermania> jtaylor: Thanks a lot! I was furious to realize that the app wan't compiling :)
<jtaylor> lots won't compile in oneiric, the compiler is much stricter + has a bunch of flags that breaks buggy compilation
<hakermania> jtaylor: Yes, the compiler is stricter, i realized that. But I was strict with my program too, in 11.04 I didn't even get a warning from it, now, till the point it compiled before showing the bug error I already had 2 warnings xD
<hakermania> jtaylor: When it is published it will be shown on the update manager?
<jtaylor> yes
<jtaylor> you can also download it now from launchpad
<jtaylor> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opencv
<siretart> highvoltage: yes, I should probably have rather merged the upload. still, from the changelog it doesn't look like that the debian package builds properly against libav 0.7
<siretart> highvoltage: never mind
<siretart> jtaylor: ^^
<zooko> Dear people of #ubuntu-motu: we're talking about the release schedule for Tahoe-LAFS v1.9.0.
<zooko> http://tahoe-lafs.org/pipermail/tahoe-dev/2011-July/006529.html
<zooko> The question is: how many days before Oneiric Feature Freeze is our effective deadline for Tahoe-LAFS v1.9.0?
<zooko> I think, based on my experience with getting previous releases of Tahoe-LAFS into previous releases of Ubuntu, that it will take at least three days to get Tahoe-LAFS upgraded and uploaded for Oneiric.
<zooko> If that's right, then we can set ourselves a deadline of releasing Tahoe-LAFS v1.9.0 for August 7.
<lifeless> zooko: if you're working backwards, I suggest giving yourself a bit more leeway
<lifeless> Oneiric is only a short term support release anyhow
<zooko> lifeless: well we're crunched between giving more leeway between Tahoe-LAFS 1.9.0 release and Oneiric Feature Freeze and giving ourselves more leeway between finishing and testing certain new patches and Tahoe-LAFS v1.9.0 release. :-)
<zooko> So, you think it could take more than 3 days for someone to upload a new Tahoe-LAFS release?
<lifeless> are there any changes that would affect the packaging?
<lifeless> e.g.
<lifeless> new setuid binaries
 * zooko thinks
<lifeless> new packages we should split out
 * zooko looks at the tahoe-lafs trac
<lifeless> new dependencies that might not be already packaged?
<lifeless> version bumps on dependencies that are packaged but might not have been refreshed ?
<lifeless> cause if its really straight forward, then its arguably only about 10 minutes
<zooko> We're considering a version bump on Twisted, but I'm sure Oneiric will already have the new version...
<zooko> Let's see... http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1274
<zooko> We may require Twisted >= 10.1.
<zooko> Hm, then there is this new functionality -- a "drop-box-like" behavior for Tahoe-LAFS:  http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1429
<zooko> I guess the Twisted requirement already satisfies that, so it wouldn't require packaging changes.
<lifeless> you'll be adding a daemon I presume ?
<zooko> Asking davidsarah on #tahoe-lafs to double-check, but I believe the current tahoe-lafs daemon will do this added job of inotify-responding, so: no.
<jtaylor> just make sure it actually works this time
<jtaylor> are there any plans on fixing tahoe in natty?
<zooko> Hm, what's the status of those bugs...
 * zooko looks
<jtaylor> no change
<jtaylor> options I see, patch out the unnecessary version dependency or ask for a SRU exception update of pycryptopp
<zooko> Hm, I can't find the tickets, other than https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tahoe-lafs/+bug/769935
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 769935 in tahoe-lafs (Ubuntu) "missing python-mock dep?" [Undecided,New]
 * davidsarah looks
<zooko> Is this the URL to find all tickets associated with the Ubuntu package "tahoe-lafs"?
<zooko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tahoe-lafs
<lifeless> zooko: yes
<jtaylor> yes but the pycryptopp was fixed in oneiric, so you have to include fix released bugs in your search
<davidsarah> so, I thought that rebuilding tahoe would automatically get the new pycryptopp (on Natty). is that not the case?
<jtaylor> no, natty still has the old pycrytopp and updating it would require acknowledge of the release team
<davidsarah> ok
<davidsarah> so we should have a tahoe ticket for this
<davidsarah> does installing 'python-mock' cause any regression for packages that use the other, colliding 'mock'?
<jtaylor> there are more than one mock?
<davidsarah> yes
 * davidsarah tries to find the ticket about that
<davidsarah> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=601725
<ubottu> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 601725 in mock "mock has a namespace collision with python-mock" [High,Assigned]
<jtaylor> you mean python-mocker?
<davidsarah> maybe that was only on redhat?
 * davidsarah rereads that bug -- have forgotten the details
<zooko> Yes, that's only Fedora/RH.
<davidsarah> ok
<davidsarah> so, this is purely an Ubuntu packaging issue for which an updated package is available in this branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/oneiric/tahoe-lafs/tahoe-lafs-fix , and so it doesn't need a fix in upstream Tahoe, right?
<jtaylor> yes, but the question is how to fix it
<jtaylor> patching out the version dedency is the simplest solution
<jtaylor> but that would cause problems for people using a non-packaged old pycryptopp version
<jtaylor> but I assume that should be very unlikely
<zooko> Hm.
 * davidsarah is confused
<zooko> jtaylor: there is one place in the python source to change that dep.
<davidsarah> what do you mean by "patching out the version dependency"?
 * zooko fetches URL
 * davidsarah is lost in a maze of twisty little packaging bugs, all alike
<jtaylor> davidsarah: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/oneiric/tahoe-lafs/tahoe-lafs-fix/view/head:/debian/patches/lower_pycryptopp_dep.patch
<davidsarah> thanks
<davidsarah> huh. that patch can't be a correct fix
<davidsarah> since it only loosens the version requirement (i.e. allows pycryptopp 0.5.14..!20, but also still allows pycryptopp >= 0.5.20)
<zooko> http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/browser/trunk/src/allmydata/_auto_deps.py?annotate=blame&rev=4976#L64
<zooko> The place in the Tahoe-LAFS source where the pycryptopp dependency is specified in Pythonic terms.
<jtaylor> davidsarah: I was under the impression that the only reason it needs 5.20 is the security fix?
<jtaylor> which does not affect natty as it uses the up to date system libcrypto++ instead of the vurnable embedded one
<zooko> jtaylor: yes, that's correct.
<zooko> So as far as I can think, your patches are correct.
<zooko> It would be better to upgrade the pycryptopp in Natty.
<zooko> Only for the reason, as you mentioned, that relaxing the constraint in the Python code means someone who is relying on that python code (the Python code as provided by Ubuntu) but not using Ubuntu's package of pycryptopp, might use an older and insecure version of libcryptopp.
<zooko> But, that's really not something we should try to fix.
<zooko> They would have to go to a lot of effort to build an older, insecure libcryptopp into a .deb...
<davidsarah> jtaylor: there's no guarantee that Tahoe is using the system libcrypto++
<davidsarah> that is, we can't change this upstream because Tahoe in general is not necessarily using a system libcrypto++
<davidsarah> (and even the version packaged with Natty possibly is not; it depends on the PYTHONPATH)
<jtaylor> yes but how likely is it that someone is still using a old non package pycrypto in natty?
<davidsarah> s/pycrypto/pycryptopp/ (pycrypto is something completely different!)
<davidsarah> it's entirely possible. anyone who installed pycryptopp using easy_install might have that situation
<davidsarah> (either easy_install of pycryptopp directly, or another python package that depends on it)
<davidsarah> s/it depends on the PYTHONPATH/it depends on the PYTHONPATH, .pth files, anything installed into a site directory, and the phase of the moon)
<jtaylor> well bet we request an stable update, if that gets rejected the patch is the only option (maybe with an additional warning)
<jtaylor> s/bet/best/
<jtaylor> does anyone use python-beaker? an rdep of pycryptopp
<zooko> I don't know if anyone does.
<davidsarah> I don't understand -- we can repackage Tahoe but not pycryptopp? Why?
<davidsarah> the problem is that Ubuntu's pycryptopp fixed a security bug but didn't declare that it was an upstream version that had fixed the bug, so there was no reliable way to detect the fix
<davidsarah> that's a pycryptopp packaging problem, not a Tahoe one
<zooko> Yeah, pycryptopp uses its version number to comprise both pycryptopp and its embedded Crypto++.
<jtaylor> well in stable release updates should be minimal to not introduce regressions
<zooko> That's why Tahoe-LAFS says that it requires a newer pycryptopp -- solely because this newer pycryptopp came with a newer embedded Crypto++.
<jtaylor> updating to a 12 versions newer upstream can cause all kinds of problems
<zooko> Which is irrelevant if you aren't using the embedded version of Crypto++ that came with pycryptopp source.
<zooko> Ah, well upgrading pycryptopp is pretty safe.
<zooko> I haven't made any major changes to it in forever.
<jtaylor> tahoe on the other hand is broken in the first place so it can't get much worth, and the proposed fix is also small
<zooko> All those version number changes are mostly for build-time packaging tweaks.
<zooko> Well, I think you're right in *this* case, but for future reference there is something worse than broken: working and insecure. :-)
<zooko> I.e., worse than not doing anything useful and erroring and quitting, is running and exposing your data to thieves or exposing your computer to being taken over. :-)
<zooko> So here are all of the changes in pycryptopp:
<davidsarah> "well in stable release updates should be minimal to not introduce regressions" -- don't agree, where this involves using code that does not correspond to any upstream version
<davidsarah> each upstream version has been tested as a whole. OS packagers *often* end-up introducing bugs by trying to cherry-pick changes
<davidsarah> if this didn't happen so frequently, I might agree with the principle of making minimal changes
<zooko> http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/pycryptopp/browser/trunk/NEWS.rst
 * zooko looks at the revision control log from pycryptopp-0.5.14.
<zooko> http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/pycryptopp/log/trunk/?action=stop_on_copy&mode=follow_copy&rev=772&stop_rev=&limit=128
<zooko> So there are a lot of changes, but they are all either (a) build tweaks (often for different systems such as Mac OS X), (b) added unit tests, (c) packaging tweaks to generate version numbers differently or the like,
<zooko> (d) applying bugfixes to the internal copy of Crypto++.
<zooko> I'm not saying that these changes mightn't cause problems.
<zooko> But, they are sort of limited in the kinds of problems that they would cause.
<zooko> *Most* of the problems that could be caused by these changes would be limited to the build phase.
<zooko> As opposed to anything a user who downloaded the new package would see.
<zooko> Yep, I finished looking at all the patches, and that's about the sum of it.
<zooko> The only patch that doesn't fall into one of those four categories is this one:
<zooko> http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/pycryptopp/changeset/759/trunk/
<zooko> Which comments-in a feature that nobody currently uses.
<jtaylor> it adds a feature?
<zooko> So in sum, jtaylor, I wouldn't worry about too much disruption from upgrading pycryptopp.
<zooko> Yeah, it makes another Python module importable.
<jtaylor> k I'll do some brief testing tomorow and request ack on an update
<jtaylor> do you still plan on syncing debian and ubuntu packages?
<zooko> Before that patch you can import pycryptopp.publickey.rsa and pycryptopp.cipher.aes and so forth.
<zooko> After that patch you in addition can import pycryptopp.publickey.ecdsa, but currently nobody does so.
<zooko> jtaylor: I don't intend to spend time on syncing debian and ubuntu myself in the near future -- I'm working on Tahoe-LAFS v1.9 and related things.
<jtaylor> adding features is usually not problematic, removing them on the other hand is
<jtaylor> k then I'll also fix the missing mock problem in oneric
 * davidsarah checks that calling init_ecdsa can't cause a problem
<zooko> I'll be willing to look into any bug report that arise from upgrading pycryptopp or anything else.
<zooko> Well, it does have unit tests, ds...
 * davidsarah reads http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/pycryptopp/browser/trunk/pycryptopp/publickey/ecdsamodule.cpp#L505
<davidsarah> yep, that's pretty much the same as http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/pycryptopp/browser/trunk/pycryptopp/publickey/rsamodule.cpp#L365
<davidsarah> so a very low-risk addition
<stlsaint> anyone care to assist with this lintian error:  newer-standards-version 3.9.2 (current is 3.8.4)
<stlsaint> the debain/source/control file shows version 3.9.2
<jtaylor> ignore that, the lintian in ubuntu is just to old
<stlsaint> ha wow
<jtaylor> lucid or?
<stlsaint> jtaylor: yep lucid
<jtaylor> if you use the oneiric lintian the error will disappear
<stlsaint> jtaylor: does the same apply to these two: native-package-with-dash-version & debian-watch-file-in-native-package
<jtaylor> no
<jtaylor> is it a native package?
<jtaylor> native packages should not have -X in their version string
<jtaylor> a native package is a package where debian is upstream, stuff like dpkg and apt
<stlsaint> jtaylor: oh sorry was reading on those errors, no the package is not native
#ubuntu-motu 2011-07-17
<jtaylor> zooko, davidsarah: pycryptopp upgrade bug 811721
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 811721 in pycryptopp (Ubuntu) "update pycryptopp to version 0.5.29-1 in natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811721
<stlsaint> is it safe to go ahead and set debian/compat level to 8 over 7? my package has no real depends on it but a build on launchpad just failed due to the debhelper on the virtual machine only supporting 7
<Laney> sounds like you answered your own question - you won't be able to build the package if debhelper 8 isn't available
<broder> debhelper(7) documents what changed between different debhelper compat levels
<broder> but as i recall the differences are fairly minimal and specialized
<Laney> shared libraries get symbols as well as shlibs
<Laney> and some other stuff
<philipballew> can someone help me with what file to download to build a deb from sorceforge?
<philipballew> http://sourceforge.net/projects/carnival/files/carnival/carnival-1.03/
<philipballew> ubuntu doesnt come have a gui for their festival text to speech program. so i figuired id build a deb for it
 * philipballew is not in a make make install mood
<zooko> jtaylor: thanks for pycryptopp upgrade bug 811721!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 811721 in pycryptopp (Ubuntu) "update pycryptopp to version 0.5.29-1 in natty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811721
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> If JAVA6 U26 is not made available in hardy, does it mean because Ubuntu Desktop 8.04 has gone EOL,why is it not made available on Server edition since its supported till Apr 2013 can someone please explain
<kaushal> as per https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/+bug/797718
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 797718 in sun-java6 (Ubuntu Oneiric) "sun java 6u26 needs packaging" [High,Fix released]
<micahg> kaushal: it's not a package with 5yr support
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> micahg: still not covinced with the answer
<kaushal> convinced*
<micahg> kaushal: here was the list from dapper, the list should be similar for hardy, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/dapper-lts-server-supported.txt
<kaushal> micahg: i dont see hardy list
<micahg> I don't know where it is ATM
<kaushal> ok
<dtchen> kaushal: note also that for hardy, it's in multiverse
<dtchen> kaushal: thus, the onus is not necessarily on the Ubuntu Security Team to support it.
<oier> question:  I get a lintian warning of "latest-debian-changelog-entry-without-new-version", this is because the package is built on a PPA and has the revno in it's name, so it's newer than the revision specified in the changelog
<oier> do I have to sync the bzr commits with debian/changelog?
<oier> for example now in the debian changelog read 0.1 version but the latest built package is 0.1-0~40~oneiric1
<oier> or can I ignore the lintian warning?
<Ampelbein> oier: can you paste the changelog on paste.ubuntu.com?
<oier> http://paste.ubuntu.com/645784/
<Ampelbein> oier: ok, and you used a override to change the version when building?
<oier> I am using a daily PPA which attaches the revno in the name
<oier> like 0.1-0~40~oneiric1
<oier> I am trying to get the oackage in shape to upload it to universe
<Ampelbein> ah, ok. you see: 0.1 is greater than 0.1-0~40~oneiric1.
<oier> would I have to change the name of the package when uploading to revu to match 0.1~oneiric1?
<Ampelbein> (dpkg --compare-versions 0.1 gt 0.1-0~40~oneiric1 && echo 0.1 is greater)
<oier> or do I have to change the debian changelog for each commit to match the version number of the revno?
<Ampelbein> no, you should use a non-native version for your debian package. (0.1-0ubuntu1 for example, <upstreamversion>-<debianrevision>ubuntu<ubunturevision>
<oier> I mean how should I proceed to get rid of the warning?
<Ampelbein> a version like 0.1 indicates a debian native package, meaning that there is no upstream.
<oier> so, I don't have to change neither the ppa building recipe nor the changelog, just rename 0.1-0~40~oneiric1 to 0.1~oneiric1 when uploading to revu?
<Ampelbein> no
<Ampelbein> you have to change the changelog to the correct version
<Ampelbein> so if you have upstream version 0.1 it would be 0.1-0ubuntu1
<Ampelbein> (0=The package is not in debian, ubuntu1=This is the first ubuntu revision)
<oier> and that would work for natty and oneiric versions?
<Ampelbein> oier: new packages won't be accepted in natty anymore.
<oier> ok
<oier> ok I think I got it, http://paste.ubuntu.com/645788/
<Ampelbein> the ~ should be a -
<Ampelbein> ~ indicates a "less than" relation ship, so 0.1~1 is smaller than 0.1
<oier> ok thanks a lot
<oier> BTW the last lintian warning I get is binary-without-manpage usr/bin/indicator-bug
<oier> does each application which installs a binary have to provide a manpage? I mean the app is a indicator
<Ampelbein> usually yes
<Ampelbein> Debian policy, chapter 12.1, http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html
<jtaylor> what happens when a -proposed verificaton fails?
<jtaylor> does it get removed from -proposed?
<Ampelbein> jtaylor: From https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates: "Removal will happen immediately if a package update in -proposed is found to introduce a nontrivial regression."
<Ampelbein> so I guess that means yes
<zooko> Good morning, folks! (UTC-6)
<zooko> lifeless, jtaylor: I realized that there *is* a packaging issue in the upgrade of Tahoe-LAFS from 1.8.2 to 1.9.0: http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1200
<zooko> tahoe-lafs now comes with a bundled copy of protovis and jquery.
<zooko> lifeless, jtaylor: would it be possible to get Tahoe-LAFS v1.9 into Oneiric, if it is in feature-freeze status, where we don't accept any non-bugfix patches, at Oneiric Feature Freeze, but it isn't in final released status until later?
<zooko> We like to have a period of user testing after we've stopped making changes to the code base and before we call the thing a final release that people can entrust their data to.
<zooko> But, it is likely that this period will overlap the Oneiric Feature Freeze date this time.
<jtaylor> you can get feature freeze exceptions if the new functionality is worth it
<zooko> Well, I think we won't worry too much about the Oneiric Feature Freeze deadline. We definitely want to finish integrating the new features that are already almost ready -- notably more scalable mutable files and directories -- and we definitely want to have a good thorough cycle of having our users test the resulting code before we bless it as v1.9.0.
<zooko> Hopefully that blessing step -- the official Tahoe-LAFS v1.9.0 release -- will be either just before Oneiric Feature Freeze or soon after, and I'll do whatever I can to get Tahoe-LAFS v1.9 into Oneiric.
<zooko> What do we need to do to package the new dependency on jquery and protovis in an Ubuntu-correct manner?
<zooko> Also, jtaylor, would you be interested in packaging up Tahoe-LAFS trunk, perhaps as a PPA or something, before it is blessed as v1.9.0?
<jtaylor> I don't use tahoe, so I can't support it, I can merely give packaging advice
<zooko> Okay.
<zooko> I'll ask rockstar if he'll do it.
<zooko> So, give me some packaging advice. My Python project now depends on Javascript libraries.
<zooko> After a long and agonizing design process, we concluded that there is no good way to do this, and so we're doing the same bad way that everyone else does: including a copy of the Javascript libraries in our app.
<jtaylor> are you able to use the version packaged in ubuntu/debian/
<zooko> I assume so.
 * zooko checks version numbers
<jtaylor> is the tahoe packaging in some Vcs?
<jtaylor> found it
<zooko> http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/1200#comment:14
<jtaylor> is protovis packaged?
<jtaylor> can't find it
<zooko> Darn.
<zooko> Does that mean we need to get protovis packaged for Ubuntu before we can upgrade Tahoe-LAFS in Ubuntu to 1.9
<zooko> I guess so.
<jtaylor> that would be preferable, but not required
<zooko> Should I open a request for packaging for protovis?
<zooko> Well, I am off for an all-day car trip to my mom's farmhouse in New Mexico. :-)
<zooko> Chat later!
<bdrung> hi, someone here with a maverick i386 system who can testbuild a package?
<jtaylor> won't a chroot do?
<bdrung> a chroot would be sufficient. i failed to setup a i386 one
<jtaylor> I have one, which package?
<bdrung> jtaylor: lintian - git clone git://anonscm.debian.org/lintian/lintian.git
<bdrung> jtaylor: running 'debian/rules runtests onlyrun=binaries-general' should be enough for testing - it fails on oneiric, but does it fail on maverick (it probably fails on natty too)
 * jtaylor downloading
<jtaylor> I really need faster internet :/ don't have all b-d cached
<bdrung> jtaylor: mine is fast enough :)
<bdrung> jtaylor: how fast is yours?
<jtaylor> 1024k
<bdrung> that was fast years ago ;)
<jtaylor> why does lintian need java
<bdrung> jtaylor: probably for some test cases
<jtaylor> running
<jtaylor> failed
<jtaylor> http://paste.ubuntu.com/645914/
<jtaylor> bdrung: ^
<bdrung> jtaylor: that was on maverick? thanks.
<jtaylor> yes i386
<bdrung> thanks
<bdrung> jtaylor: do you have a lucid i386 where you can retry this command?
<jtaylor> but only a chroot on a amd6
<bdrung> i have enough amd64 systems :)
<jtaylor> I only have amd64 lucid cached
<jtaylor> would have to download it all
<oier> hi, I have uploaded a new package to REVU  called indicator-bug 3 hours ago but eventhough dput tells that everything went fine, I can't find the uploaded package on REVU
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 3 in Launchpad itself "Custom information for each translation team" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3
<oier> it's my first time uploading to REVU so maybe I made some mistake
<oier> if I try uploading again dput tells "Package has already been uploaded to revu on revu.ubuntuwire.com"
<oier> does anybody know what's going on?
<azeem> oier: that's from the .upload file I think
<azeem> you need to remove it/move it away (or possibly use some dput --force option) to reupload
<oier> but the first time I uploaded with dput it told me taht everything went fine, so I assume that it should be on revu
<oier> the upload file says that it uploaded everything succesfully
<azeem> oier: so why do you want to reupload?
<oier> i don't find the package on the revu site
<azeem> hrm, can't help you with that
<azeem> but just reuploading will probably not help
<oier> but is it normal that dput tells the upload was succesfull and then revu to not show the package?
<oier> I've never used revu before so I am not familiar with it
<azeem> well, dput uploads to somewhere on revu
<azeem> I guess that upload has to be processed by revu somehow to make it appear on the webpage
<azeem> possibly you have to get an account or something; I'm not using revu
<geser> the upload is successful, but the part which processes the upload is probably not happy about something, contact an REVU admin who can check why
<oier> I am logged in revu with my launchpad account
<oier> who is an revu admin?
<geser> oier: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU, just above the "How to log in" section
<oier> thanks
<jtaylor> bdrung: lucid i386 chroot fails to
<sladen> oier: dput --force
<gilbert> hi, i would like  to suggest pulling in the latest xpdf package 3.02-17 from debian unstable.   this fixes a segfault issue lp:#788343, and may address the longstanding segfault lp:#669211.  anyway, the oneiric xpdf package is just in bad shape  right now...
<micahg> gilbert: so, if Debian has all the changes of the ubuntu diff, you can request a sync with requestsync from ubuntu-dev-tools, otherwise, you can ask the last uploader if he's interested in doing the merge or if you could do it
<gilbert> michag: i've applied all of the ubuntu changes to the debian package, so it can be used directly now
<bdrung> jtaylor: thanks
<micahg> gilbert: great!, so just request a sync with requestsync and it'll end up in the sponsorship queue, someone will look at it and ACK it
<gilbert> micahg: ok, doing that now.  thanks for your help!
<micahg> gilbert: you're welcome
<gilbert> micahg: i keep getting timeouts to fiordland.ubuntu.com when running requestsync...
<micahg> gilbert: if you have an lp account you can use --lp
<micahg> I don't think anyone's around that can look at the timeout issue ATM
<geser> gilbert: you might be using an out-dated version of ubuntu-dev-tools. fiordland.u.c was hardcoded in older versions but isn't a SMTP server anymore
<gilbert> geser: yes, i'm using the version in debian squeeze
<gilbert> i'll just move to my unstable box
<jtaylor> you can also just copy paste the text into the web interface
<micahg> jtaylor: yeah, but requestsync should do the subscribe as well for ubuntu-sponsors
<jtaylor> well thats just a few more clicks
<micahg> indeed
<jtaylor> did that before I learned of the --lp flag as it did not support startls
<geser> bdrung, tumbleweed: could something be done about the ubuntu-dev-tools package in Debian stable as requestsync from that version still has the old MX hardcoded? backport or would it warrant a SRU?
<bdrung> geser: backporting is harder, because then you have to backport devscripts and distro-info too
<bdrung> geser: i think SRU is the way to go asuming that the old MX does not work any more
<geser> bdrung: it was bug 710925 (fixed in u-d-t 0.115)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 710925 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "[requestsync] Talks directly to a machine, assuming it's the MX for launchpad.net" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/710925
<geser> broder: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk/revision/996
<geser> broder: sorry, that was meant for bdrung
<bdrung> geser: yeah, that change is SRUable
<micahg> gilbert: did that end up working for you?
<micahg> gilbert: ah, nevermind, I see it in the queue
<gilbert> micahg: yep, sent it in :)
<micahg> gilbert: hi, do you have a minute for a PM about webkit?
<gilbert> micahg: sure
<micahg> gilir: you know that gecko-mediaplayer is available for adoption in Debian, right?
<gilir> micahg, I didn't know it was officially orpÄ¥aned, but I'll happy if someone else take it for now :)
<micahg> gilir: yeah, officially orphaned
<micahg> gilir: so, I'm looking at libdesktop-agnostic which you uploaded to Debian and the only diff we have is in the symbols file, Ubuntu has 0.3.91 for some symbols and Debian has 0.3.92, is this diff worth keeping?
<RenatoSilva> Hi. Emerald 0.8.8 *must* get into natty, please
<micahg> RenatoSilva: entering a channel and demanding things is not likely to be successful
<micahg> RenatoSilva: you can request a backport to natty, instructions are here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
<RenatoSilva> it's a new version maybe with new features (actually none I've noted) which could disturb users, ok somewhat a rule you guys follow. That is, it will be in Oneiric. BUT... the problem is that current emerald for natty DOESN'T WORK.
<RenatoSilva> Hence a good reason to update to 0.8.8 or if you wish, find out what's wrong and patch it (which I find the hard way because I just can confirm 0.8.8 works in Natty, apparently "as is": https://launchpad.net/~malteworld/+archive/compiz)
<micahg> RenatoSilva: there's an SRU in natty-proposed, have you tried it?
<RenatoSilva> micahg: iirc I tried but can't recall if it even worked. Even so, the problem is that the system will keep pulling updates to ALL packages when I want updates from proposed only for that *specific* package. This is the main reason this approach doesn't work for me.
<micahg> RenatoSilva: add something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/646075/ to /etc/apt/preferences.d/proposed
<micahg> then you'll only pull in what you explicitly select from -proposed and any necessary dependencies
<micahg> RenatoSilva: it'll go into -updates once it's been verified and has passed the 7 day waiting period
<RenatoSilva> sorry micahg I don't get what that text lines mean and they'll be hard to manage (if later I want to change it, I'll have to remember file names and specific lines, which is more easy/intuitive with gui steps). So I'm afraid to blindly doing that...
<micahg> RenatoSilva: the gui way would be enable, -proposed, update the one package you want to update, disable -proposed
<RenatoSilva> it would help if update manager had nodes separating each section
<RenatoSilva> sorry I don't recall if it has, iirc it's all mixed...
<RenatoSilva> your suggestion seems ok, maybe I tried it but didn't work. Maybe I'll try again
<micahg> RenatoSilva: when you enable proposed, you'll have to uncheck everything in update-manager you don't want I guess
<RenatoSilva> micahg: yeah, possibly, I think I'll test right now...
<RenatoSilva> anyway, the only way to know when it went to update is by regularly watching the versions with apt-cache policy emerald?
<micahg> RenatoSilva: or subscribe to the bug
<jtaylor> can this bug be nominated for natty? I'll preparing a branch
<jtaylor> bug 779340
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779340 in pyfltk (Ubuntu) "From python: import fltk fails" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779340
<micahg> jtaylor: sure
<micahg> jtaylor: done
<RenatoSilva> micahg: yeah, already subscribed
<pindonga> when is the deadline for package inclusion for oneiric? I'm planning to update some packages, so I want to know if I should push for it asap, or if I have time to do some more changes to them
<micahg> pindonga: I think feature freeze is aug 11
<pindonga> micahg, so any package updates should happen before then, right?
<pindonga> thanks
<pindonga> I think I'll be able to do so then
<micahg> pindonga: non-bug fix updates after that need an FFe
 * pindonga is pushing hard for a 1.0 release :)
<micahg> pindonga: yeah, you want to shoot for 1.0 before that, you can do bug fix point releases after that though
<pindonga> cool
<micahg> RenatoSilva: the other option is to verify the SRU in a virtual environment like virtualbox
<gilir> micahg, I'll do the sync myself, another package need to be update before
<micahg> gilir: ok, thanks
<jtaylor> bug 779340 merge proposal: https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/natty/pyfltk/fix-779340/+merge/68194
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 779340 in pyfltk (Ubuntu Natty) "From python: import fltk fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/779340
<jtaylor> another merge for to keep sponsors busy :) https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/oneiric/soya/fix-780305/+merge/68196
#ubuntu-motu 2012-07-09
<dholbach> good morning
<MetalGodWin> Hello, (Hope i found the right place?) What section does my app belong to if it's a development tool? I need to fill that in in the control file during packaging.
<JainAmber> MetalGodWin, The list of sections is here: http://packages.debian.org/stable/
<MetalGodWin> JainAmber: Thank you
<JainAmber> MetalGodWin, See description for line2: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/dreq.en.html#control
<JainAmber> Also, http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections
<MetalGodWin> JainAmber I came to the conclusion that my app belongs to devel. Thanks again :)
<MechanisM> I'm did apt-get source somepackage, modified it and wanna generate deb from it. how to do it?
<MechanisM> and also did apt-get build-dep somepackage
<arand> MechanisM: Normally you'd use debuild (or dpkg-buildpackage)
<MechanisM> which command I should pass?
<MechanisM> ok did it
<MechanisM> btw can I build on 32 bit ubuntu debs for all and for 64 bit ubuntu?
<MechanisM> like I seen some packages called packagename-all.deb or packagename-amd64.deb etc
<astraljava> MechanisM: You cannot build 64-bit packages on 32-bit systems. But the -all is another thing, it means that same package can be utilized on all archs, ie. it's arch independent.
<MechanisM> okay, thanx a lot. btw currently I'm on 12.10 x32 but I have also 64bit 12.04 can I build 32/64 both on 64 bit os?
<directhex> yes, but it needs a little bit of setting up
<MechanisM> I have ia32libs and all related things
<MechanisM> ok thank you guys I'll investigate on this issue later. just wanted to make sure.
<directhex> you can't build a 32-bit version from "inside" the 64-bit os. you need a minimal 32-bit environment available, e.g. as provided by pbuilder-dist
<directhex> it'll just create a 32-bit os tarball, and use that as a build environment. it's easy once you get it going
<MechanisM> okay. I'll check this when I'll be booted into 64 bit os
<directhex> remember that you only need different 32 bit or 64-bit packages if your code isn't cross-platform (i.e. it's C or C++ or similar)
<directhex> python or perl or java or c#, you should only need one "all" package
<MechanisM> mine is python with c bindings
<MetalGodWin> I'm unable to start my app once i've installed it to my system. It's written in python, anything else I should think of than following the guide @http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/packaging-new-software.html
<Zhenech> posting the error you see when you try to execute the app from the shell might hekp
<Zhenech> help*
<Laney> #ubuntu-app-devel is probably better
<MetalGodWin> only a can't find msg if I run the command <appname>. Tried python <appname> then it says it cant find the__main__ class
<MetalGodWin> could it be that i've used capital letters for the .py files? My app-name is installed with a lowercase name or how you should put it
<MetalGodWin> Laney: thank i will try that
<nhandler> Does anyone know where the little icons on https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/search/?q=rhythmbox are pulled from?
<chris_> i see a lot  prerequisite articles to read before becoming so immerged in this MOTU stuff :)
<MetalGodWin> I don't get any answer from the logged in ones at app-devel..  I've been stuck at packaging my python app for hours now. Read and tried several how-to guides, nothing works. Could really use some help.
<ScottK> It would be nice if someone would sponsor the fix for bug  958305 for precise.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 958305 in unscd (Ubuntu Precise) "nscd crashed with SIGSEGV in _nss_files_init()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/958305
<stgraber> ScottK: done
<ScottK> stgraber: Thanks.
<lewtds> Hi, I'm trying to package a software that uses waf as the build system. But when using pbuilder to build, when it calls waf, the command fails with this message "ImportError: No module named tarfile" (Python module). What should I do?
<ScottK> Accepted.
<ScottK> lewtds: The best option is convince upstream not to use waf.
<lewtds> that would be too extreme. Why is the tarfile module not imported? I thought that one is built
<lewtds> -in
<lewtds> it builds fine outside of pbuilder thouh
<ScottK> waf is generally regarded as a less than sane build system.
<ScottK> Do you build-depend on python?
<ScottK> The tarfile module is part of python2.7/3.2.
<lewtds> Thanks, I'd probably try adding it.
<lewtds> The codebase is in Vala. Do you have any suggestion on which build system that goes well with Vala without too much hassle?
<ScottK> No.  I've never done any vala, but !waf
<tumbleweed> ewww, waf
<lewtds> thanks, adding python2.7 dependency did the trick!
<Laney> ScottK: fancy processing the backports waiting in $queues?
<tumbleweed> err, you should rather be depending on python than python2.7
<ScottK> Laney: Did precise.
<Laney> I uploaded some to lucid too
<ScottK> Laney: Those are done too.
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> ScottK: NEW too :-)
<ScottK> OK.  I'll look there too.
<Laney> Just because I know how much you like using this new tool
<ScottK> Heh.
 * tumbleweed 's INBOX is under a haskell seige today
<Laney> ?!?!?!
<Laney> that's me wondering what I missed
<ajmitch> is laney breaking something again?
<Laney> adconrad broke it. not me. nuh uh.
<Laney> seems someone is doing a transition
<Laney> this seems unwise.
<directhex> doesn't ghc support linked libraries yet?
<Laney> in a rudimentary way
#ubuntu-motu 2012-07-10
<thinkndev> What does it mean when "Packaging Branch Status: OUT-OF-DATE" occurs when bzr-branching a project.
<thinkndev> *package.
<ScottK> It means what you got is out of date and not what's currently in the archive.
<thinkndev> Ah, so it's not good when that happens.  How can this be fixed?
<thinkndev> I've been looking at this right now
<thinkndev> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/934517
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 934517 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier instructs to click "check for updates" although there is no such option" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ScottK> Whining at someone on the appropriate mailing list, which is, I think ubuntu-distributed-devel@lists.ubuntu.com.
<ScottK> Myself, I just stay away from the branches and pull the source from the archive.
<ScottK> There use is entirely optional.
<thinkndev> ahh, I see.
<thinkndev> I'm new to development, btw.  Where can I find the update-notifier archive?
<ScottK> If you look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier you'll see the most recent version is 0.119ubuntu15
<thinkndev> yeah, and from bzr, i pulled 0.119ubuntu10
<ScottK> If you have the package devscripts installed, you can get it with dget https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/update-notifier_0.119ubuntu15.dsc
<thinkndev> what is a .dsc file?
<ScottK> It's part of the Debian source package (the format we use)
<ScottK> dget will use that to also download the rest of the package.
<thinkndev> from what I heard, it contains metadata of a package.
<ScottK> It does
<thinkndev> Now, reading the bug description, it talks that the problem exists in Precise alpha.  Does that mean it's reproducible in future versions?
<thinkndev> Is the precise stable considered as precise alpha?
<RAOF> Unless it's been accidentally fixed (or fixded but the bug being missed) it probably still exists.
<thinkndev> how can I reproduce this specific problem? The directions don't seem suffice...
<RAOF> If you can't reproduce it, then maybe it's fixed?
<RAOF> Ah. String fix.
<RAOF> You can see whether those strings referenced have changed.
<dholbach> good morning
<paultag> Anyone know offhand how the Ubuntu theming is handled? E.g. for GDM, etc? I know desktop-base isn't used
<stgraber> paultag: well, for gdm I doubt there's really much modification as ubuntu no longer uses it. The rest should be covered by ubuntu-artwork
<paultag> stgraber: ACK, thank you
<trijntje> Hi all, before I figured out how to properly use ppa's, I messed around a lot and deleted a bunch of ppa's. Is there a way to revive the default ppa ~user/+archive/ppa after it has been deleted?
<paultag> trijntje: you might consider asking in #launchpad, but they use very exacting terms about PPA deletions being 4evah
<paultag> trijntje: but the LP guys should be able to explain it better then that
<Laney> I think it would just be easier to move on from that name
<Laney> call it phoenix
<trijntje> Yeah, I was afraid of that, trial and error is not always the best method I guess ;)
<paultag> nope :)
<paultag> Laney++
<trijntje> I asked in launchpad, it's only possible to half-ressurect one, and then mess around with urls for the rest of your life ;)
<paultag> mini-dinstall 4 lyfe :)
<arand> Yeah, if you go to the deleted ppa page and append /+edit to the url it appears as though you can revive it, it will remain a tad undead though.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-07-11
<psusi> hrm... does anyone else not have any pack files in /var/lib/ureadahead?  it looks like it may be broken on precise
<psusi> err, wrong chan
<dholbach> good morning
<jokerdino> heya MOTU-ers
<e11bits> I have this linux device driver for Realtek Ethernet controllers that I placed in /usr/src and added to dkms. If I use dkms manually the module gets built and installed and everything is fine. But if I download a new kernel image installation hangs when dkms kicks in. Where can I see what's happening? I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with my dkms.conf file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1086041 (feel free to point me to a more ap
<e11bits> propriate channel)
<aboudreault> how am I getting this error: http://pastebin.com/CGBQD3Su
<aboudreault> if my libmapserver.....so is in another package of the same source package
<aboudreault> hmm... just got a light remember me an old error abot the lib version
<aboudreault> that was it.
#ubuntu-motu 2012-07-12
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<geser> good morning
<valdur55> hey
<micahg> good morning
<micahg> I won't be able to make the MOTU meeting today
<coolbhavi> good morning micahg
<asomething> motu meeting? or do I have the times wrong?
<coolbhavi> asomething, dholbach is busy
<coolbhavi> :(
<coolbhavi> and micahg wont be attending
<ScottK> Meeting should happen with whoever is around.
<asomething> ScottK, volunteering to chair =)
<coolbhavi> well I thought of discussing about motu school from past 2 meetings
<ScottK> I thought coolbhavi would.
<asomething> should we move over to #ubuntu-meeting and see who's around?
<coolbhavi> ScottK, I sent a remainder to the list as dholbach was busy
<dholbach> yes, it's not my meeting :)
<Laney> sigh, missed it, sorry
<Laney> boo
<ajmitch> boo?
<Laney> lp-subscribe-uploads doesn't interact that well with self service backports
<Laney> means you potentially get a lot of bug mail
<ajmitch> it subscribes you to all bugs on the backported package?
<Laney> yeah, because you uploaded it
<Laney> maybe it's not so useful to do this for backports
<tumbleweed> do some version filtering?
<Laney> you can pocket filter
<Laney> ideally i'd want it for my own backports though
<tumbleweed> sounds like a special-case
<Laney> maybe so
<tumbleweed> I mean, a useful one to cater for :)
<Laney> how can you tell?
<Laney> parse changelog, load bug, find submitter, puke
<Laney> should be in .changes actually
<Laney> but still.
<tumbleweed> yeah, that isn't pretty
<Laney> i guess we don't really have people responsible for backports
<Laney> otherwise we could sponsor them
#ubuntu-motu 2012-07-13
<dholbach> good morning
<jfi> Hi, if I propose a bzr branch merge throw LP without setting a reviewer (don't know who can do the review/upload...) for universe package, do I also need to create a 'bug report'? Or is there a ubuntu team automaticaly notified and someone going to handle it?  Or should I better follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess for people requiring sponsorship and not follow the bzr merge proposal way?
<geser> jfi: IIRC you shouldn't need to do any special things to get your branch sponsored.
<geser> If it's listed on the sponsoring overview page then it should get picked up by a sponsor.
<jfi> geser,  yes, you are right, it is already in http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/. Thanks.
<epikvision> How do you know if pbuilder was successful?
<epikvision> in running a package?
<jtaylor> running?
<jtaylor> pbuilder builds
<epikvision> building.
<epikvision> sorry
<jtaylor> exit code 0 and a result in the result folder
<jtaylor>  /var/cache/pbuilder/result by default
<epikvision> what if there is no result?
<jtaylor> then it likely failed
<jtaylor> if you were building a package
<jtaylor> what does the log say?
<epikvision> does that mean a failure? (i was only trying out the packaging a new software tutorial at package guide site.)
<epikvision> where can I find the logs?
<jtaylor> depends how you use pbuilder
<jtaylor> if you use pbuilder-dist the result is in ~/pbuilder/*_result along with the log
<epikvision> pbuilder-dist precise ...
<epikvision> what part of the log is appropriate to share?
<epikvision> pbuilder calls it an invalid version.
<jtaylor> the end is usually enough
<epikvision> it finished with a time-stamp
<jtaylor> please use a pastebin, e.g. via pastebinit
<epikvision> what does that mean?
<jtaylor> pastebins are just websites where you can paste text to share
<epikvision> ahh
<jtaylor> echo "test" | pastebinit
<epikvision> do developers use pastebins often?
<epikvision> whoa!
<jtaylor> yes its the most common way to share buildlogs
<epikvision> that's so cool
<epikvision> how do I pastebin the command?
<epikvision> 's results?
<jtaylor> you can just copy it into http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<epikvision> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1090686/
<jtaylor> pastebinit is a useful program to semi automatize this, it takes input from stdin or a file
<jtaylor> looks like it was successful
<epikvision> ah ok.  :)
<jtaylor> there should be a result in ~/pbuilder/ somewhere
<epikvision> well, it was just a tutorial.  how do know if it was successful? by not showing any errors?
<jtaylor> yes
 * epikvision shudders at the countless times of going through this tutorial for the past few weeks.
<epikvision> how do I use pastebinit?
<epikvision> for say, an output of a command?
<jtaylor> either you save the log and do "pastebinit log" or you pipe it in with "command | pastebinit"
<jtaylor> you can also just type pastebinit and paste the text followed by ctrl+d
<jtaylor> see the manpage for some more options including syntax highlighting for source code
<epikvision> ok
<epikvision> thanks jtaylor for the help
<epikvision> I feel like I learn more from others than alone.
<epikvision> does motu do packaging work for the development release too?
<jtaylor> yes
<epikvision> i heard that it's good practice to run the dev release via chroot.
<jtaylor> you should have lots of chroots to build stuff
<jtaylor> to fully run dev releases VM's are good
<jtaylor> or if its more stable a extra partition
<epikvision> I tried virtualbox and qemu, and both fails... :(
<tumbleweed> we almost only work on the devolpment release, after all, it's the *development* release...
<Laney> grah, precise's debmirror has no --config-file
<tumbleweed> debmirror takes a config file?
 * tumbleweed is suprised he didn't notice that, considering I've been merging it for the last few releases
<Laney> sure it does
<Laney> you don't use one?
<tumbleweed> no, I use a script
<Laney> anything clever?
<tumbleweed> (which made a lot of sense for other reasons too, such as rsyncing i18n, before debmirror supported that)
<tumbleweed> the most clever bit is that it calls a debmirror in a git checkout, containing all the patches I've submitted upstream that joey hasn't done anything about
<tumbleweed> such as the patch that stops my mirror being deleted when my upstream mirror has a hash mismatch
<Laney> heh
 * Laney starts the initial armhf sync
<Laney> yay for being able to run a local mirror
<Laney> it's not as big as i thought actually
<tumbleweed> http://paste.debian.net/178975/
<Laney> i hope it can deal with merging them into the same directory
#ubuntu-motu 2012-07-14
<Laney> does hardlinking save much?
<tumbleweed> Total saved by hardlinking: 217.484 GiB
<tumbleweed> (mainly orig.tar.gz shared between debian & ubuntu)
<Laney> i like
<highvoltage> nice
<v> who are some active motu generalists these days?
<TheLordOfTime> eh?
<v> you are not a timelord my good sir
<v> i'm simply asking who active motus are
<jtaylor> why?
<tumbleweed> read -changes and you'll figure that out quite quickly
<v> cuz i'm one and havent done it in a while
<v> i was hoping there was someone i knew still active
<Laney> i'm sure there are some
<v> well Laney is a familiar name :) howdy
<Laney> :P
<Laney> hi there
 * v reads changes
#ubuntu-motu 2012-07-15
<thinkndev> do motu members create as many packages for the stable release as they do the development release?
<Quintasan> Hello.
<Laney> urgh
<Laney> so if you try to debmirror the main archive and ports into the same directory then the second run deletes files from the first
 * Laney re-downloads 40G
<maxb> Laney: Been (almost) there, done (almost) that, attempting to mirror from both archive.debian.org and ftp.xx.debian.org into the same directory. Unfortunately debmirror itself appears to be a mostly impenetrable blob of Perl, and I've not found any nicer replacements.
<Laney> maxb: I found a script that can do the cleaning up afterwards. So if I turn off debmirror's cleaning and use this instead it should hopefully work â¦
<maxb> Hm, I recall writing one of those myself :-)
<Laney> https://code.google.com/p/debmarshal/source/browse/trunk/repository2/pooldebclean/pooldebclean.pl
<Laney> stupid ports/archive separation.
<maxb> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1093467/
<Laney> neat
<maxb> Mostly I prefer approx or similar caching proxy software now rather than straight mirroring now; there's soo much highly specialized stuff in the archive that I just know I'll never access
<maxb> Though debmirror is certainly a lot easier to deploy
<Laney> I'm mirroring onto a USB drive, for those offline times
<Laney> presiously was using apt-cacher-ng
#ubuntu-motu 2013-07-08
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hi iulian
<ajmitch> hi dholbach, iulian, *
<iulian> Hi there ajmitch.
<dholbach> hey ajmitch
<geser> good morning
<TheLordOfTime> any MOTU around?
<TheLordOfTime> erm, nevermind i have to talk to dev because main :/
<TheLordOfTime> ... wait... stupid LP it's showing different data.  yeah I do need to talk to a MOTU.
<smartboyhw> !ask | TheLordOfTime
<ubottu> TheLordOfTime: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<TheLordOfTime> fine you always love calling that.
<TheLordOfTime> i'll just say "there's a reason i don't want to discuss this in a public channel at the moment"
<TheLordOfTime> but anyways, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bitcoin is out of date in prior releases to Raring and it being updated is horribly broken.  prior to Raring, in Quantal and earlier, the program can not keep up with later versions of the software, such that Precise will not work with the corresponding "bitcoin blockchaion" ever due to tons of changes implemented in Raring and Saucy
<TheLordOfTime> having said this, the package tends to miss security updates as core changes which would require version bumps aren't being applied
<TheLordOfTime> i'm curious how that is still in Ubuntu, and whether anyone could potentially put that in the list of packages which might need to be excluded in ubuntu later, unless we can version bump everything prior
<ScottK> TheLordOfTime: If it's security updates, discuss it in #u-hardened.
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  excluding security updates
<TheLordOfTime> the software is still broken earlier
<TheLordOfTime> because of upstream-introduced core changes that are included in Raring and Saucy
<TheLordOfTime> i mean, a backport *could* possibly be done and i know what's in saucy give or take a few changes does build for Ubuntu
<TheLordOfTime> (case in point a corresponding PPA)
<TheLordOfTime> however, in Precise, i guarantee that version *will not work*
<TheLordOfTime> same with QUantal
<TheLordOfTime> this bug specifically
<TheLordOfTime> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bitcoin/+bug/1159832
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1159832 in bitcoin (Ubuntu Quantal) "[SRU] bitcoin: Mandatory upgrade on May 15" [Medium,Fix committed]
<ScottK> We'd need someone who was going to consistently pay attention to the package.
<TheLordOfTime> and apparently i see a fix in -proposed for quantal and precise
<TheLordOfTime> ScottK:  true, and i don't know who, but now that I look at -proposed for precise and quantal there looks to be code changes that address the "will not work" thing
<ScottK> Then it needs someone to verify.
 * TheLordOfTime sighs
<TheLordOfTime> i'll need to dig up a quantal vm then
<TheLordOfTime> and a precise one
<obounaim> Hi everybody,
<obounaim> Where can I find a complete list of packages that need a merge from Debian?
<paultag> obounaim: it's been a long damn time since I've done any Ubuntu anything, but https://merges.ubuntu.com/ might be helpful
<paultag> so that might be just entirely out of date (likely is)
<obounaim> is harvest a better alternative to https://merges.ubuntu.com/?
<ScottK> No.
<ScottK> Merges.ubuntu.com should be up to date.
<ScottK> If it isn't, it should be fixed.
<paultag> Ah, ok. Thanks ScottK.
<paultag> I was just here for some silly reason (I think dput-ng) and saw the question.
<ScottK> No problem.
<Unit193> Said at the bottom, "Generated at 2013-07-08 20:41:52 UTC", so hopefully that'd be one indicator.
<paultag> I didn't know if launchpad grew MoM features
<paultag> and if someone forgot to turn the lights off, I could have been duped :)
 * paultag looks at revu to see if there's a notice there yet
<paultag> whoh, awesome, it's finally off.
<ScottK> Yeah.
<ScottK> The fact that it lived on a Hardy sparc box meant it was going to expire eventually.
<paultag> bwahaha
#ubuntu-motu 2013-07-09
<m4n1sh> in .install file, I have a bunch of files under python2.7 directory
<m4n1sh> I am putting in install file
<m4n1sh> usr/lib/python2*/* usr/lib/python3*/
<dholbach> good morning
<m4n1sh> hoping those folders to be copied inside all the python3 python3.3 folders
<m4n1sh> but it isnt
<m4n1sh> do I need to hardcode paths usr/lib/python2*/* usr/lib/python3.3/
<geser> what are you trying to do?
<m4n1sh> I have a package which has a bunch of python files which installs in python2.7 location
<m4n1sh> I need them to also have in python3.x directory
<m4n1sh> geser: check python-zeitgeist package, I want to have python3-zeitgeist package too which installs in python3 dist-packages for ubuntu
<geser> m4n1sh: I guess you need to use dh_python3 and let setup.py run with python3 to install it to the right directories (most can be done with dh if you tell it to build for python3 too)
<m4n1sh> geser: it uses automake
<m4n1sh> python-zeitgeist is a part of bigger package
<geser> does it work with python3?
<m4n1sh> geser: noes. when running with python3, it cannot import packages
<geser> does upstream support to run it with python3 or does it need some porting first to be able to run with python2 and python3?
<m4n1sh> geser: upstream doesn't support. Most probably due to an unknown technical restriction http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17541207/am-path-python-for-python2-and-python3
<m4n1sh> because automake's AM_PATH_PYTHON cannot handle two python version at a time, or there is a way around which I am not aware of
<geser> you might need to have to build it twice then, once for python2 and once for python3 (if upstreams allows to set python to python3)
<geser> perhaps barry has some more ideas what needed to get a python3 package for it too
<m4n1sh> geser: you mean to say another source package?
<m4n1sh> or in the debian/rules change it in such a way that it builds twice?
<geser> m4n1sh: the later
<m4n1sh> geser: well, I have no idea how that has to be done, but AFAIK the python2.7 version can also work for python3.3 without any change
<geser> google knows about a lp:~ev/zeitgeist/python3 branch, perhaps ask ev in #ubuntu-devel about the status of it
<tumbleweed> if this is a pure-python package and the same source works with python & python3, you can use .pyinstall files or dh_install to install it for python3
<m4n1sh> tumbleweed: yes. it is pure python package
<m4n1sh> you mean no seperate python3-zeitgeist package?
<m4n1sh> python-zeitgeist will install in python2.7 and python3.3 both?
<tumbleweed> one source building multiple binary packages
<tumbleweed> we always have python and python3 in separate binary packages
<geser> tumbleweed: I didn't look at the package but I assume it's python bindings for a C library (build from the same source)
<tumbleweed> I'd assume so too, if it's using autotools
<m4n1sh> geser: it isn't a binding over C, it is a pure python package which wraps over dbus interface
<m4n1sh> C bindings too wrap over dbus interface
<tumbleweed> also, fyi, the source package is zeitgeist not python-zeitgeist
<tumbleweed> anyway, it contains a bunch of C
<m4n1sh> yeah. python-zeitgeist is a binary package of source package
<m4n1sh> source package zeitgeist contains C library package named libzeitgeist-2.0 and python library/module package named python-zeitgeist which is right now installing in python2.7
<tumbleweed> it looks entirely plausible that this python works unmodified under python3. have you tested it?
<m4n1sh> not very exhaustively, but yes, it works
<tumbleweed> then some hacky dh_install ing is probably the easiest
<m4n1sh> wont putting this in .install file work?
<m4n1sh> usr/lib/python2*/* usr/lib/python3/
<tumbleweed> should do
<m4n1sh> should it be specifically python3 or python3.3?
<tumbleweed> python3
<m4n1sh> thanks
<Noskcaj10> Is it possible to directly add apt-fast? the debian bug has halted
<dkessel> good evening dholbach :)
<dholbach> hi dkessel
#ubuntu-motu 2013-07-10
<dholbach> good morning
<Guest40084> Good morning dholbach.
<Guest40084> Argh, guest again.
<dholbach> hey Guest40084
<Noskcaj> can someone look at https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/saucy/midori/upstream0.5.2/+merge/173882
<lfaraone> jdstrand: can you do a fakesync for bug 1199969 as you did for bug 1192874 ? (xml-security-c in quantal and raring)
<ubottu> bug 1199969 in xml-security-c (Ubuntu Raring) "Fix for CVE-2013-2154 introduced another possible heap overflow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199969
<ubottu> bug 1192874 in xml-security-c (Ubuntu Precise) "heap overflow while processing InclusiveNamespace PrefixList" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192874
<jdstrand> lfaraone: yeah
<lfaraone> jdstrand: also, would doing the same for 12.04 be reasonable? the only changes in the middle is basically a change, then a revert of the change, and a copyright / readme addition.
<lfaraone> actually hold.
<jdstrand> lfaraone: possibly-- can you comment in the bug?
<lfaraone> jdstrand: done.
<Chocanto> Hello everyone ! :) I'm working on ubuntu-docviewer-app for Ubuntu touch. To make this application working we had to create a Qt5 version of Poppler. Now that this is done we have to create a libpoppler-qt5-dev package. Do we have to create this package for debian or only for Ubuntu ?
<Chocanto> Thank you in advance :)
<rbasak> Chocanto: going via Debian is preferred. Is there a particular reason why that is difficult or can't be done?
<Noskcaj> I've got three proposed updates in code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj can someone take a look?
<Chocanto> rbasak: No special reason, the only reason is that I never made a -dev package and even less for a debian repo :)
<Chocanto> rbasak: Anyways it will be available in the ubuntu core apps dev PPA first, we need it to test the apo
<rbasak> Chocanto: it should be pretty much the same for Debian as it is for Ubuntu. Even if you can't find a DD to help, you can still file an ITP and upload to debian.mentors.net. That shouldn't be too much extra effort, and an ITP is a good coordination point in case others want it in Debian too.
<Chocanto> rbasak: Ok thank you :) I will do that. I hope it will be fast, we are slightly behind schedule ^^'
<dupondje> mmmmmmmmmmmmm
<dupondje> the auto-syncer broke audacious :(
<Laney> looks like audacious-plugins just needs merging
<dupondje> checking it out :)
#ubuntu-motu 2013-07-11
<Noskcaj> I've uploaded 4 package updates, can someone take a look at them?
<Noskcaj> pulseaudio 4.0.3 is now in debian, can someone merge it to saucy?
<dholbach> good morning
<geser> good morning
<dupondje> dpkg-source: error: cannot read audacious-plugins-3.4/debian/patches/Description:: No such file or directory
<dupondje> any idea's ? :s
<dupondje> nvm :p
<dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/audacious-plugins/+bug/1200345
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1200345 in audacious-plugins (Ubuntu) "Please merge audacious-plugins (3.4-1) from debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<dupondje> anyone want to sponsor ? :)
<dupondje> all silent here ? :(
#ubuntu-motu 2013-07-12
<micahg> dupondje: taking a look
<dupondje> thx micahg  :)
<dupondje> at least we can listen to music again this evening then :P
<dholbach> good morning
<iulian> Morning dholbach.
<dholbach> hey iulian
<geser> good morning
<iulian> Hi there geser. How are you doing?
<geser> Hi, iulian. I'm fine and you?
<iulian> geser: I'm not too bad, thanks.
<dholbach> we're at 62 sponsoring items - does anyone have a bit of time today to go through a few?
<obounaim> dholbach: thanks for sponsoring me I really appreciate it
<dholbach> anytime :)
<obounaim> Can I apply for Ubuntu membership now?
<dholbach> obounaim, I'd write you an endorsement, but in the end that'd be a question for the DMB or a Membership Board
<obounaim> ok
<obounaim> In your opinion should I apply or do more work?
<dholbach> obounaim, what I'd recommend to do is: set up your application (you will have to do it anyway) and ask the people you've worked with for comments - soon you're going to see what they all think :)
<obounaim> Ok thanks for your advice dholbach
<dholbach> :)
<dholbach> all right - time to call it a day over here - have a great weekend everyone
<iulian> dholbach: Enjoy!
<dholbach> you too
<obounaim> How to build on multiple architectures using a ppa? thanks
<obounaim> architectures other than i386 and amd64 like powerpc and arm
<obounaim> because when upload packages they only build in i386 or amd64
#ubuntu-motu 2013-07-13
<Noskcaj> I've merged manpages from debian. Can someone review it please?
<Noskcaj> https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/saucy/manpages/merge3.51-1
<Logan_> Noskcaj: If you hit the "Propose for merging" link, it will be added to the sponsorship queue.
<Noskcaj> oops, i forgot that bit. *facepalm*
<Noskcaj> What's happened with the "file" package. The debian bzr branch in launchpad is two years old and the version in saucy is different to the version in the saucy bzr branch
<Logan_> Noskcaj: The Bazaar branch is out of date. You can see all of these outdated branches at http://package-import.ubuntu.com/ .
<ScottK> Noskcaj: These kinds of things are why, personally, I just ignore the branches and work from the actual archive.
<Logan_> ScottK: Embrace the future! ;P
<ScottK> I've seen the future and it's the past.
<Noskcaj> ok. It seems more difficult going through the archives though, and slightly outdated
<Logan_> Plus, bzr branch warns you if a branch is out date.
<Logan_> of
<ScottK> UDD is umaintained now, so I don't see it getting better.
<Logan_> Noskcaj: grab-merge is pretty simple to use.
<Logan_> I personally use UDD wherever possible, but it's been getting more, uh, unreliable recently.
 * Noskcaj read documentation for grab-merge and MoM
<ScottK> I've seen the future and it's the past.
<Noskcaj> *reads
<Logan_> Noskcaj: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging is a good read for that sort of thing.
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Logan_> Noskcaj: Hey, are you around?
<Noskcaj> Logan_, yeah
<Logan_> Noskcaj: Soooo. Squid3.
<Logan_> You're just starting out with merges, right?
<Noskcaj> yeah. I attempted various things, i don't know if they worked or how to get pbuilder to work (the wiki page is far from intuitive)
<Logan_> Okay. Here's my advice. Stay away from huge packages like that, especially with active maintainers. I tried to merge your changes, and I got a bunch of conflicts.
<Logan_> Get yourself more comfortable with smaller merges (with fewer conflicts), and you'll gradually be able to work your way up.
<Noskcaj> ok, thanks. I'd not even found the merge.ubuntu page when i did that one
<Logan_> Even I wouldn't touch a package like that, and I've done a crapton of merges (ask anyone).
<Noskcaj> ok. I'm looking at dnsmasq now. It's smaller, but i still don;t really know what i'm doing
<jbicha> Noskcaj: yeah, you're definitely going to have to figure out how to build stuff before proposing uploads
<jbicha> maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild will help, if you still have trouble getting a build environment set up, you can ask here
<Noskcaj> ok
<Logan_> You should always makes sure packages build locally, at least on your architecture, before you propose them.
<Logan_> Also, I recommend this guide: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/
<Logan_> It's very intuitive and up-to-date when it comes to getting set up, etc. I don't mean to scare you away from this, but it gets difficult with bigger packages. You can definitely tackle smaller merges, though.
<Noskcaj> Ok, thanks for all that.
<Logan_> Please let us know in this channel if you need any help. That's what we're here for. :)
<Logan_> I asked questions constantly when I was starting out. No regrets whatsoever.
<Noskcaj> Logan_, can ou have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/saucy/plasma-widget-quickaccess/upstream-merge/+merge/174529
<Noskcaj> I think i've finally done one right
<Logan_> Noskcaj: I think I've reached my quota for tonight. Going to sleep soon. However, I'll take a look when I get the chance.
<Noskcaj> ok. thanks
<Logan_> No problem/
<Logan_> *
<Logan_> .
<Logan_> Typing is hard.
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> After running "grab-merge dnsmasq" i get a list of conflicts. how do i fix them?
<ScottK> Noskcaj: That particular package has been worked on my by the Kubuntu team.  I would suggest asking in #kubuntu-devel for review/sponsorship.
<Noskcaj> i did last time, repeating
<ScottK> OK.
<ScottK> Personally, I'm slightly uncomfortable with it because it's not done by the same upstream as the last release.
<ScottK> To resolve merges, you go through the files with merges and figure out what you need/throw away.
<ScottK> (usually it's keep ubuntu's change, drop Debian's, but sometimes it's the other way around.
<ScottK> sometimes it's a mix of the two.)
<ScottK> Conflict resolution is a case where you really need to understand what's going on in the package.
<ScottK> Since Ubuntu and Debian use dnsmasq somewhat differently, it may not be a great one to work on either.
 * ScottK is off to bed too.
<Noskcaj> ScottK, ok. Any recommendations? also, how do i tell what parts of the files are the conflicts?
<ScottK> If you look in the files, there are conflict markers that show what's from Ubuntu and what's from Debian.
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> It seems something is wrong with step 4 on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild
<Noskcaj> It crashes when i run sbuild-update --keygen
<Unit193> cjwatson: Hey, so have you seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/898110 ?  By default it'd still show the same as it does now, it'd just be easier for users to change and show all.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 898110 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "please remove the "Previous Linux versions" sub-menu and display all kernels again" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<TheLordOfTime> Unit193:  if you don't mind me giving my opinion, I quite like the new "Previous LInux Versions" submenu, and I like it that way because at any given time i have 6 kernels and Windows, and not having that submenu takes a *while* to get to Windows for when I need to boot to it (which is of course rare but happens)
<TheLordOfTime> and while it could be tweaked so it's useful
<TheLordOfTime> such as adding the kernel version to the main menu of what it's going to load, i would rather have the sub menu than deal with however many entries before I get to the OS i want to boot to.
<Unit193> TheLordOfTime: And this would leave that as default, so nothing would actually change for you.  The problem I have, is I still keep the generic kernel installed, but also have other(s), and "Ubuntu" doesn't tell me what's acually going to boot.  Changing GRUB_ENABLE_SUBMENU to false would be much, much easier and nicer, while leaving the defaults as is.
<Unit193> TheLordOfTime: Did you look at comment 6 and the patch?
<cjwatson> Unit193: Perhaps somebody should send that upstream.  Our patch stack is getting a bit wobbly for me to want to add more Ubuntu-specific options (which I might later have to cope with being added upstream under different names).
<Unit193> Awwh, dangit.  I noticed grub2 source package had quite a few patches, though.
<cjwatson> Sure, but they aren't all equal.  I think a lot harder about ones that add new configuration surface, as a general rule.
<cjwatson> The only such thing right now is GRUB_RECORDFAIL_TIMEOUT, and there was pressing reason for that since it was causing unrecoverable failures on remote headless servers.
<cjwatson> I won't add new configuration surface in a packaging-specific patch just because people don't like the current shape of the menu.  But you may well find grub-devel receptive.
<Unit193> Well, for me it was more that 10_linux isn't easy to figure out, but point about new config well taken.  Thanks for giving me an answer!
<cjwatson> It's got kind of complex, yes.  Another reason I get increasingly reluctant with each patch people ask for :-)
<Unit193> Understandable, that's why I rely on others too.
<obounaim> Hi everybody
<obounaim> How to discard the last bzr commit in order to drop the last ubuntu changes
<obounaim> then do a merge from Debian
<jtaylor> so you want to sync from debian?
<jtaylor> and drop all ubuntu changes?
<obounaim> no I want to drop just the last ubuntu changes
<obounaim> I want to drop the last changes in Ubuntu of "bitmeter"
<jtaylor> then how you do it depends on personal preference and what kind of changes there are
<jtaylor> if they are small its often simpler to just take the debian package and readd the changes to keep from the ubuntu package with e.g. meld
<jbicha> you can't just drop a bzr commit if you're trying to use the lp:ubuntu/bitmeter branch
<obounaim> So I will not be able to use UDD in this case right?
<jtaylor> you can
<jtaylor> but a bzr revert might do to much
<jtaylor> like reverting the changelog
<obounaim> Is it a problem to revert the changelog?
<jtaylor> somewhat
<jtaylor> its not the end of the world (one loses it on a sync anyway) but its better to keep it
<jtaylor> it can be very important when trying to understand the history of a merge
<obounaim> would please take a look in the case of bitmeter. I think reverting the changelog in this case should not be a problem
<jtaylor> keeping the changelog is easy, just don't use bzr revert and use patch -p1 -R on a fragment
<jtaylor> do we still need any of the bitmeter changes?
<jtaylor> bitscope is satisfied by all supported releases, jackd1 and 2 are  > 0.50 and -lm is in debian
<obounaim> When making a patch do we need to modify both Makefile.am and Makefile.in ?
<Noskcaj> When running "mk-sbuild saucy" i get the error http://paste.ubuntu.com/5872370/ What am i doing wrong?
<jbicha> Noskcaj: the wiki guide is a bit too complex
<jbicha> just a guess, but maybe you should undo step 3
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> i'll try that
<Noskcaj> jbicha, that fixed it, thanks
#ubuntu-motu 2013-07-14
<mfisch> We don't need LP bugs to merge new versions do we? Or is thee a policy
<Noskcaj> mfisch, i think it's if it's a different person doing it.
<mfisch> Noskcaj: different from the maintainer?
<Noskcaj> yeah
<Noskcaj> the ubuntu maintainer
<mfisch> and if the maintainer is just "Ubuntu developers" I think it's fair game without a bug
<Noskcaj> I'd agree
<Noskcaj> hello Logan_
<Logan_> Hi Jackson.
<mfisch> Thanks Noskcaj
<Noskcaj> I've merged the latest version of backuppc from debian. what do i need to attach to the bug other than the new tarball
<Noskcaj> no problem mfisch
<Noskcaj> bug 1201029
<ubottu> bug 1201029 in backuppc (Ubuntu) "Please merge backuppc 3.2.1-5.1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201029
<Logan_> Noskcaj: Did you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Merging?
<Noskcaj> Yeah, the debdiff link is broken and the only page on the wiki is outdated
<micahg> mfisch: the bugs serve 2 purposes, to allow sponsors to gain sponsorship and to notify someone that you're working on the merge, if you're the TIL person, a bug shouldn't be needed
<mfisch> micahg: sorry, TIL? I can only think of the reddit meaning
<micahg> touched it last
<Logan_> TIL that TIL means "touched it last" in Ubuntu. :P
 * Logan_ waves to Micah.
<mfisch> Logan_: perfect
<mfisch> TIL in this case is seb
<mfisch> but it's been out of sync since mid-June, so I don't think seb is going to work on it
<micahg> mfisch: it's still good to ask unless it's marked on merges.ubuntu.com as free to take
<Logan_> micahg: Hey, do you know the situation with charybdis?
<Logan_> 3.4.2-1 has been in unstable for 12 days, and $ syncpackage --force charybdis returns:
<mfisch> micahg: okay, I'll ping seb
<Logan_> syncpackage: Error: Debian version 3.4.2-1 has not been picked up by LP yet. Please try again later.
<micahg> https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/charybdis
<Logan_> It's not there. :(
<micahg> Logan_: file a request on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<micahg> or ask in #launchpad
<Logan_> Doing.
<mfisch> micahg: are ubuntu branches in lp updated directly after a dput or is manual work required with bzr (I assume automatic)?
<Logan_> The former.
<mfisch> right
<micahg> with a slight time delay
<Logan_> You can push to Bazaar as well, but it really doesn't do much.
<Logan_> The package importer does all of the commits for you.
<mfisch> in my last upload, upstream was bzr
<mfisch> so I pushed there and dput but did not push to the source package branch in lp
<micahg> mfisch: check here for importer issues: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
<micahg> bugs go here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+filebug
<Logan_> And they will never be looked at.
 * Logan_ hides.
<mfisch> I looked at one once
<mfisch> for a package merge I was interested in, I could not make any sense of it
<obounaim> Hi everybody
<Logan_> How does one go about joining ~ubuntu-sponsors?
<iulian> Logan_: Ask the admins to add you.
<Logan_> kees: Are you around?
<TheLordOfTime> i assume it's impossible to get a "new" package that didn't exist previously into 13.04 directly while skipping over currentDevelRelease?
<iulian> TheLordOfTime: Right.
<TheLordOfTime> iulian:  that's what I thought
<TheLordOfTime> iulian:  any way to figure out why something doesn't show in the archives, then?>
<TheLordOfTime> (in the off chance it was removed how do i figure that one out)
<jbicha> TheLordOfTime: if it was in Ubuntu, it would have a page like https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-express and you can click the top right link to see its publishing history
<Logan_> Every single package is failing at UDD...
 * Logan_ sighs.
<TheLordOfTime> jbicha:  yeah i'm curious because one person is reporting their installer calling for `finish-install` and it's missing, so...
<TheLordOfTime> (in raring)
<TheLordOfTime> or rather "when they're installing with jigdo"
<Logan_> Hey Jeremy. :)
#ubuntu-motu 2014-07-07
<dholbach> good morning
<dholbach> iulian, thanks!
<iulian> dholbach: No probs.
<ESphynx> hey guys... can we upgrade to Utopic already?
<Unit193> ESphynx: On a technical level?  Sure, but it's not released yet of course.
<ESphynx> Unit193: yeah just wondering if apt-get dist-upgrade is going to bring me up to Utopic? To test with the latest packages and stuff? (and assuming it's usable :P)
<Unit193> ESphynx: Of course it won't, but you can  do-release-upgrade -d  to it.
<ESphynx> ah! :) thanks
<ESphynx> it'd be usable?
<ESphynx> come to think of it, I need this laptop for doing presentations so I better not :P
#ubuntu-motu 2014-07-08
<dholbach> good morning
<Luke-Jr> I am the upstream maintainer for package "bfgminer" (Debian import to universe), and have released 5 bugfix-ONLY releases to the version packaged in Ubuntu 14.04; is there any interest in getting 14.04 updated with these fixes?
<Noskcaj> !sru | Luke-Jr
<ubottu> Luke-Jr: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<Noskcaj> You'll want to file one of those
<Luke-Jr> looks like it assumes I am a packager or use Ubuntu..
<RAOF> Luke-Jr: Yeah. You'll either need to prepare such a thing yourself, or get someone who is interested in the package in Ubuntu to do so.
<Luke-Jr> if it helps, I believe my project meets the criteria in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
#ubuntu-motu 2014-07-09
<RAOF> Luke-Jr: If someone is willing to step forward to do that package maintenance, great!
<RAOF> As bfgminer is in universe, it'll need to be a community effort.
<Luke-Jr> RAOF: hm, couldn't the same packaging scripts be used that made 3.10.0?
<RAOF> Luke-Jr: It probably _is_ an easy job, yes, but it's still something that needs doing.
<dodobrain> is it ok now to upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 ?
<sney> try it and see
<sney> the support channel is normally #ubuntu, no?
<dodobrain> ah true, i joined here by mistake. i want to go directly from 12.04 to 14.04 without going through the intermediary releases
<dodobrain> iirc, last time someone told me i'd have to wait till july to be able to do this
<sney> what would you even save by doing that? time? but you were willing to wait?
 * sney scratches his head
<dodobrain> not time, but some accidental issues
<dodobrain> i wasn;t sure 12.04 -> 12.10 -> 13.04 -> 13.10 -> 14.04 would work
<ScottK> You can do-release-upgrade -d now and it'll go direct.
<dholbach> good morning
<ESphynx> good morning dholbach ;)
<dholbach> hi ESphynx
<ESphynx> how's it going?
<dholbach> good good - how about yourself?
<ESphynx> crazy!
<dholbach> hm?
<ESphynx> dholbach: trying to get this release ready and then presentation ready before the Symposium on Monday :P
<dholbach> I'll cross my fingers for you then! :)
<ESphynx> hehe thanks
<ESphynx> also building a new website :|
<Corwin> Hello! We develop webmail software, and we'd like to have our opensource webmail app included in Universe repository :)
<Corwin> All the procedures were done and the bug was posted: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1328094 Thanks in advance! :)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1328094 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] AfterLogic WebMail Lite PHP, Ubuntu package" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<rbasak> Corwin: ewelcome!
<rbasak> Corwin: Fix Committed isn't really right, since it's not committed in any way *in Ubuntu*.
<rbasak> Corwin: have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages? The usual route for new packages is through Debian.
<rbasak> "The package contains the installer script only. WebMail itself and configuration files are download from AfterLogic website once the installer is launched."
<rbasak> Corwin: ^^ I'm pretty sure this makes it unsuitable for inclusion, both for Debian and for Ubuntu.
<Corwin> I think I've seen that I need to switch to "Fix Committed" on some packaging guide, probably got that wrong. And yes, I saw the Debian-related bit, still thought I should try the MOTU route first :)
<Corwin> and the last bit is sad :/
<Corwin> anyway, i do appreciate checking this!
<rbasak> Corwin: imagine if all packages in Ubuntu didn't actually install the software, but instead required an additional Internet download from some third party source.
<rbasak> Corwin: it'd be completely unworkable and unusable.
<rbasak> I've commented on the bug.
<geser> Corwin: why an installer? can't it get packaged directly?
<Corwin> users tend to update all the package to newest versions available, which will overwrite any custom changes they could have made.
<rbasak> Corwin: why is this package special, over all the other software shipped in Ubuntu?
<Corwin> One thing I'm trying to understand is, do you think packaging for Debian first will make the package appear faster, compared to going through MOTU directly?
<Corwin> And of course, we'll modify the package to have the source included completely.
<rbasak> Corwin: if the package is in Debian, it gets automatically imported to Ubuntu. So you only need to do it once to cover both distributions.
<rbasak> Corwin: if the package is uploaded to Ubuntu, then that increases our delta with Debian, and thus maintenance, and so we're more reluctant to do it.
<rbasak> Corwin: for both processes, you'll need a sponsor, and a NEW review (ftpmasters for Debian, archive admins for Ubuntu)
<rbasak> NEW reviews tend to take a while since the teams are relatively small.
<rbasak> As someone who would need a sponsor, I suggest that you aren't really in a position to have anything done quickly. So I'd try to follow the process in its most ideal manner, and that's through Debian.
<rbasak> Then you're likely to face the least resistance.
<Corwin> Understood, thanks a lot!
#ubuntu-motu 2014-07-10
<dholbach> good morning
<Rhonda> bdrung, tumbleweed: Can you maybe upload a backport of ubuntu-dev-tools to wheezy-backports?  The backport of devscripts has a conflict with the version in wheezy. :)
<tumbleweed> sounds like something that should be done
#ubuntu-motu 2014-07-11
<ESphynx> hey guys, so what's the official GCC version now on Utopic?
<Noskcaj> ESphynx, 4.9.0-9ubuntu2
<Noskcaj> 4.9.0-10ubuntu2 is in -proposed
<ESphynx> Noskcaj: so it does get used yet by LP build bots does it?
<ESphynx> does not*
<Noskcaj> no
<ESphynx> k, thanks :) gotta test with 4.9 hehe
<geser> Noskcaj: isn't the default gcc in utopic still 4.8?
<Noskcaj> geser, I thought we'd swapped. i could be wrong
<geser> we swapped from 4.8 to 4.9 and as there were some ABI(?) problems we swapped back to 4.8 till those are resolved
<ESphynx> ABI problems -- are those restricted to C++? :P
<geser> yes
<ESphynx> ah good :P
#ubuntu-motu 2014-07-12
<ESphynx> hmm, why does apt-get install sometimes becomes completely useless and it's in a messed up state that some unrelated packages have unmet dependencies?
<ESphynx> (and is there any way to work around that?)
<cjwatson> ESphynx: Probably because you're using -proposed in your sources.list.  Don't.  The purpose of staging things in -proposed is to protect you from this.
<sney> +1
#ubuntu-motu 2014-07-13
<xteejx> hey guys, I used to help out in a tiny way with packaging (mainly ftbfs fixes, string fixed here and there etc) but this was a couple years ago and this UDD thing has come in....I'm totally lost with it all and the wiki makes little sense
<xteejx> specifically xiphos FTBFS, there's a patch in Debian here https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=747784 but I'm not sure how to apply and debuild a package for it with bzr?
<ubottu> Debian bug 747784 in src:xiphos "xiphos: FTBFS: error: ftptrans.h: No such file or directory" [Serious,Open]
<xteejx> anyone alive *echo* :)
<xteejx> anyone able to tell me how to test a ftbfs, I've bzr branched, how do I use pbuilder-dist with a bzr branch?
<Laney> bzr bd -S will give you a source package
<xteejx> thanks Laney, I can do the usual with the .dsc from there?
<Laney> yup
<Laney> also all of this UDD stuff is optional, fyi
<xteejx> Laney, wait what? I kept getting bitched at by apt so assumed it was required now?
<xteejx> tbh I hate it
<ScottK> xteejx: Feel free to ignore it and attach a debdiff to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors for reveiw/upload.  Pretty much like one used to.  It's still fine.
<xteejx> ScottK, will do (when I find a nice low hanger), thank you :)
<xteejx> apt-get source doesn't appear to be grabbing the proposed build failures, ideas?
<xteejx> specifically python-apt
<xteejx> there doesn't appear to be anything on debcheck for utopic, does it not work anymore?
<xteejx> are we even merge or syncing for utopic yet?
<xteejx> bzr bd -S    keeps telling me it can't sign using someone elses key...how do I tell it NOT to sign the source package and dsc?
#ubuntu-motu 2015-07-06
<dholbach> good morning
<Noskcaj> dholbach, Would you mind taking a look at bug 1235535 while you're piloting?
<ubottu> bug 1235535 in transmission (Ubuntu) "please remove gconf dependency by removing transmission-gtk.gconf-defaults in debian" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235535
<dholbach> Noskcaj, sure
<Noskcaj> ty
#ubuntu-motu 2015-07-07
<dholbach> good morning
<Unit193> dholbach: Howdy.
<dholbach> hi Unit193
#ubuntu-motu 2015-07-08
<micahg> teward: hi, I wanted to ask you about znc (or maybe you answered already)
<teward> micahg: hm?
<teward> probably haven't, i've been focusing on the nginx issue on the -server mailing list, which prompted a release team ping and has a pending TB ping when robie gets to it with his busy schedule
<teward> what's up?
<micahg> hi, so, there was one last thing WRT znc-dev, it's not checked, did you actually verify it according to what you mentioned as the test for it?
<micahg> BTW, if you're actively supporting nginx, I'd be willing to put it in backports
<teward> i've got another question for you in response to that, but first, znc.
<micahg> ok :)
<teward> micahg: to be completely honest, I haven't had time recently to poke it, I've had it on my radar for some time, but what ended up happening in the past couple months was work, database explosions, iSCSI SAN explosions...
<teward> and me getting ill
<teward> so ZNC's been on the list, but not in the priority list
<micahg> sorry, are you at least better?
<teward> yeah, i am
<micahg> that's good to hear
<teward> but then the iSCSI at work died
<micahg> sigh
<teward> so abf;wehrfaweruhamat *implode*
<teward> anyways, nginx.
<micahg> ok, so I'll assign znc to you then so it's not on my list :)
<teward> micahg: tricky tricky part is naxsi was dropped
<micahg> whenever you get to it is fine
<teward> micahg: ack on ZNC being assigned back to me
<teward> micahg: so with regards to nginx, unless you're OK with nuking nginx-naxsi as part of backports, there's a limit to how far we can backport.  And from where
<micahg> if it's not part of the new upstream, I think that's fine
<micahg> nothing depends on it in trusty at least
<teward> eheheheh...
<micahg> (directly)
<teward> um...
<teward> nginx-naxsi-* might error
<micahg> oh, is it a separate source?
<teward> no, it's included in the same tarball
<teward> flashback to Trusty LTS time, and the MIR for nginx, we created nginx-core for main
<micahg> nothing seems to depend on that either
<teward> but nginx-extras, nginx-full, etc. are still present in the source package
<teward> and nginx-naxsi* was in at until pre-15.04 merge/sync
<teward> when Debian dropped
<micahg> trusty: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11839254/
<teward> micahg: that's just an rdeps check, or a specific script?
<micahg> reverse-depends
<teward> micahg: currently a backport wouldn't make sense except vivid -> trusty, to put 1.6.x in, but we're currently looking at 1.9.x for Wily and we may want to push nginx backport considerations until after Wily
 * micahg had the AA script somewhere, just can't remember right now where
<teward> micahg: currently, the discussion jumps forward to LTS, to determine course-of-action for wily which will impact X
<micahg> ok, that's fine, I just wanted to offer that if someone is actively maintaining it and willing to test, I don't mind keeping it in -backports
<teward> and the current discussion / proposal is to merge 1.9.x for Wily, merge for X, and then post-release/post-freeze get 1.10.x in
<teward> micahg: yeah, i'm poking it, but I use mostly Trusty
<micahg> yeah, I read the list, plan sounds sound
<teward> the packaging as exists in Debian exists in the PPAs which I still maintain, so I know it works
<teward> but I tested on Trusty
<teward> not Vivid
<teward> so backporting nginx?  Great idea!  Is it on my radar right now?  Not really.
<teward> (because TB input is needed, the Wily decision for it needs to be made, and a few other things nginx-related for W and X series I need put in place)
<micahg> right, that's the funny thing with backports, need to test the in between releases to preserve upgrades, I think when utopic is EOL, we can backport directly to trusty, I have to double check that upgrades aren't enabled from T -> V though
<micahg> not sure if anything changed in the new 9 month release world
<teward> i thought LTS->LTS is enabled, but not LTS->[skip]->nonLTS
<micahg> right, that's what I think too
<teward> at least, AIUI
<teward> i could test it, tomorrow, at work, fake-run `do-release-upgrade` in sandbox mode
<teward> 'test' the upgrade, but don't actually upgrade
<teward> and see what it says the version is
<teward> i *think* you still need the inbetweens
<teward> but meh
<micahg> well, utopic is supported for another 2.5 weeks :)
<micahg> I can test it myself when utopic is EOL
<teward> at which point .kill == true.
<teward> :p
<teward> i know someone on Vivid uses the packaging, but not me.
<micahg> ok
<micahg> I'd like to find a way to get some of the migration checks available to backports so we might be able to automate some of the testing, I've been thinking about that a bit
<teward> mmm
<micahg> proposed -> release migration checks
<teward> well, my current task is, other than prepping the options for the TB for nginx in W and X, is to figure out whether we can get better bug reporting data from Apport for post-installation-failed bugs... since systemd made the available output from the 'start' of the service total crap
<teward> so that has to be looked at before backports are even looked at on my radar
<micahg> pitti would probably be a good person to talk to as he's worked with both
<teward> indeed.
<teward> i poked pitti earlier in -devel
<teward> didn't get a return ping
<teward> timezone differential perhaps
<teward> and the discussion/minirant i had in -server led me to the same conclusion: talk to pitti
<teward> the tricky part: get apport to execute two commands, and keep the output, and attach it.
<micahg> he'll be online in 2-3 hours (assuming he's not on vacation)
<teward> and i haven't found any such apport hooks.
<teward> i'mma be asleep in 2-3 hours
<teward> because 22:15 here now
<micahg> heh
<teward> and i need sleep :p
<teward> just waiting to pump a little more power in this system since it ran to 2% battery thanks to a power outage due to storms.  and the mirrors team poked me and almost lost me due to no power :P
<teward> no, but i'll stop by early tomorrow morning my time, see if I can't find pitti, and at worst drop an email or such
<teward> since this has been an issue since the 15.04 release for me
<teward> not to mention all those VPS providers' images having Apache preinstalled adds to the hell
<micahg> yeah, he's usually around till at least the US morning
<micahg> teward: have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport#Per-package_Apport_Hooks
<teward> micahg: the one thing I really don't want to hear is "Yeah, apport hooks can't do that..." in which case the solution is to (a) create additional binaries for nginx, basically $nginxflavor-manual that doesn't start the service on postinst
<teward> but that quadruples build time and build space
<teward> micahg: yeah, to no avail
<teward> what i think i need is a custom one
<teward> or better documentation on how to craft apport hooks
<teward> because it's not logfiles we're including, we're going to need to capture some of the output from `systemctl status nginx.service`, `journalctl -xe`, and also grab the /var/log/nginx/error.log files if they exist (depending on where the failure happens)
 * teward shrugs
<micahg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~apport-hackers/apport/trunk/view/head:/doc/package-hooks.txt, it's python, so sky should be the limit
<teward> i've been beating this on and off the past two months with no success
<teward> i need to brush up on python too xD
<teward> ehh i'm too tired to actually work on it now
<teward> micahg: no, but feel free to reassign the ZNC backport to me, i think the znc-dev libicu issue is still present
<micahg> ok, I reassigned
<teward> yeah, it's 'committed' but not fixed
<teward> so we may want to either wait until that's fixed, since I hear a 1.6.1 bugfix release may be coming soon for ZNC
<teward> or fix it ourselves
<micahg> ok, well, I'll leave that to you, I can sponsor stuff at a later time for you if you want to fix it or wait (in which case, it might be easier to close the backport request and wait 2.5 weeks for utopic to be EOL)
<micahg> I guess if it's a bug affecting vivid as well, that's SRUable
<micahg> (at least a targeted fix for the bug)
<teward> yeah that was my thought, but we may want to poke the release team on that first.
<teward> because it adds a dep to the actual package itself
<teward> fixes the one bug, but not sure if it's entirely SRUable
<teward> but again, i need sleep xD
<teward> can't do any major devel consideration stuff while tired
<teward> last time i did that i ended up writing five pages of unintelligible python scripts
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-07-09
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-07-10
<dholbach> good morning
#ubuntu-motu 2015-07-12
<Fantu> hi, about one bug reported in launchpad how I can mark fixed in wily but still present in trusty? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pbuilder/+bug/1473718 thanks for any reply
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1473718 in pbuilder (Ubuntu) "Hooks not working (not executed)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mitya57> Fantu: you can't, but I just did that for you :)
<Fantu> mitya57 thanks
<lfaraone> backportpackage **shouldn't** be used for uploads to the Ubuntu archive? the docs are confusing, because the help makes it look supported, but the manpages caution against it without explaining why
<micahg> lfaraone: idk, I use it, but check the output before uploading, I would guess that probably because of -nc and -sa that it's not always appropriate for an archive upload
<micahg> though LP would discard the extra source piece so -sa shouldn't really be an issue except for increasing upload time
#ubuntu-motu 2017-07-11
<Unit193> rbasak: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+sourcepub/8037657/+listing-archive-extra new wine-development fixes the issue with newer unicode.
#ubuntu-motu 2017-07-12
<Unit193> rbasak: Oh shoot, I got people mixed up!  I'm sorry for pinging you.  Though a simple FYI: That package I broke sync with Debian last cycle is now fixed in Debian (ruby-simplecov)
<Rhonda> Unit193: I will look into it, especially finally try to pick up the patch that ubuntu does with respect to the network definitions, if that can be either carried over to Debian too, or even be pushed upstream.
<Rhonda> Unit193: You won't be at debconf in montreal by chance, will you? :)
<Unit193> Rhonda: Unfortunate, but no.  It's actually not too far this time, well not to far in terms of "out of the country" at least.
<Rhonda> That's what I hoped for, pity.
<Unit193> I'm nearly as boring in person as IRC. ;)
<Rhonda> I'm fine with meeting boring people. :)
<Unit193> Rhonda: Oh!  I'm a DM now!
#ubuntu-motu 2017-07-15
<ChogyDan> hi all.  Is there anyone that I could partner with on a project or paper cut?  This papercut looks interesting, and I feel like I could learn a lot by working through it, but there is so much for me to figure out, and I would appreciate some guidance
<ChogyDan> basically, I would need to test the bug, test the fix, and then put it into a package and update, and it would help if I had someone pointing me the in the right direction for each of these steps, plus whatever else
<ChogyDan> if you respond and I'm not on, please use my launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~chogydan
#ubuntu-motu 2018-07-10
<Chris____> Hi. I've been waiting almost 30 hours for my gpg key to show up on keyserver.ubuntu.com. Is that normal? I followed the instructions at http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/getting-set-up.html#create-your-gpg-key
<teward> Chris____: did you upload your key to there?
<Chris____> teward: Yes, I ran `$ gpg --send-keys --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com <KEY ID>` like the instructions in the link say to do
<teward> that should've shown up instantly, then, what's the key ID?  (I'm just running a search on it)
<Chris____> 2039A298
<teward> hm.  that's definitely an interesting issue.  It probably should have been there by now, you're right.
<Chris____> I also tried uploading the ASCII-armored version at keyserver.ubuntu.com, but I get "unexpected POST request"
<teward> Chris____: just finished talking to Canonical sysadmins, they indicated this is a known issue as a result of attempting to mitigate against a crit-levvel vuln
<teward> they indicated you could "try again" with the upload, and it's down to 'timing' and 'luck' because otherwise you'll get upload failures
<Chris____> Ok. Well, I appreciate the information. Is there a bug report I can track?
<teward> Chris____: i don't have a bug tracking link for the mitigation status, sorry.  the issue upstream with the SKS Keyserver software doesn't have a fix, yet, but that's trackable at https://bitbucket.org/skskeyserver/sks-keyserver/issues/60/denial-of-service-via-large-uid-packets
<teward> and what Canonical SAs are saying is "Try again, it'll eventually be accepted"
<teward> they're working on a fix though, just no tracker or ETA for it yet
<Chris____> Ok. Thanks for your help teward.
<teward> yep.
#ubuntu-motu 2018-07-14
<Unit193> tsimonq2: Any progress on the possibility of having backports for bionic? :)
<tsimonq2> Unit193: Not quite.
#ubuntu-motu 2019-07-10
<teward> MOTUs: a question.  Is there any precedent for 'diverging' from Debian temporarily to update a Universe package, until such time Debian catches up?
<rbasak> teward: completely acceptable
<rbasak> teward: an email to Debian BTS explaining and pointing to the work is nice - then they can pick it up as soon as their archive opens again.
<rbasak> teward: however, you're on the hook for looking after the package until it is in sync again if you upload that.
<teward> rbasak: considering I use the Universe package daily, I'd be happy to maintain this.  I just sent an ITS: bug into Debian as well indicating that I would like to salvage the package in Debian and either become maintainer or become co-maintainer if the MIA team determines the maintainer is still 'active' enough to maintain the package
<teward> it needs some TLC and the packaging is out of date in Debian too (wrong Vcs-Git, wrong homepage, outdated standards, not lintian clean...)
<teward> rbasak: the package in question is a GUI app, xca, which I use to manage internal CA certificate systems for clients, myself, and my employers lol
<teward> and it NEEDS some care lol
<teward> rbasak: once the ITS is up on Debian BTS I'll add in a note about the divergence downstream until the package is either (1) updated in Debian or, (2) I gain access/maintainer roles for it.  The tricky part here is that the maintainer seems MIA too, or at least way too inactive to reliably maintain this
<teward> (my opinion)
<teward> i'll prep a divergent package for Eoan then, so we can at least have it up to date in later releases down here.  (Though I did this in a PPA already xD)
<teward> rbasak: Universe package in question has been uploaded to eoan-proposed - happy to maintain the xca package until Debian catches up or the Salvage process is successful.
<rbasak> Thanks!
<teward> (in which case I'll have upload control for it in Debian too xD)
<Unit193> Careful about that one, I believe he goes off of git tags so last time I got it sponsored in Ubuntu it had to go for a fakesync.  Last I knew the guy was taking care of that well enough, just sometimes a bit behind.
<Unit193> (Scorpi on OFTC)
<Unit193> ...And freenode, idle time of 40 minutes.
<Unit193> teward: â
<Unit193> teward: Err, those depends that you added should likely be recommends...
#ubuntu-motu 2019-07-11
<teward> Unit193: ... good point, that's fixable
<teward> but i should point out that if they're active on IRC but not Email there's a problem there for maintenance
<teward> because they've ignored bugs, AND emails going to them requesting whether they need updates
<teward> AND their git repos and watches were for a nonexistent Git repo since July
<teward> June*
<teward> Unit193: you might want to read through https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=931806 as well - there's numerous things wrong that should get addressed in the packaging :p
<ubottu> Debian bug 931806 in src:xca "ITS: xca" [Important,Open]
<teward> not to mention E:NoMaintainerResponse
<teward> Unit193: erm, not sure whether that'd be better or not since it already pulls the SQLite DB dep in which I know is for 'local' access, but... just a thought
<teward> reuploading now though.
<teward> Unit193: and fwiw, you're talking a 1.4.x one
<teward> us and Debian are in identical sync except for the version bump now.
<teward> a sync for that is still 'sane' if Debian upstream catches up and actually has their maintainer step up
<teward> the problem is, it's got 0 maintenance in Debian because of a mostly-dead maintainer
#ubuntu-motu 2020-07-12
<zhsj> opencc hasn't been migrated in groovy https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/groovy/update_excuses.html#opencc "opencc unsatisfiable Build-Depends(-Arch) on i386: libmarisa-dev" why it wants to build on i386?
<RikMills> zhsj: because opencc is on the i386 whitelist
<RikMills> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/focal/i386-whitelist
<RikMills> s/focal/grrovy in that link
<RikMills> *groovy
