#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-28
<charlie-tca> ochosi: pidgin in the panel uses an envelope? Shouldn't this be changed to the pidgin bubble icon instead? It looks like it should open an email client now.
<charlie-tca> ochosi: removing session menu and adding action buttons fails to allow a restart on 64bit desktop live cd in a VBox
<charlie-tca> the live session went right back to GDM
<ochosi> charlie-tca: pidgin is part of the messaging menu, which is an indicator. thunderbird should also integrate there
<ochosi> right, so the restart-logout thing is more general, not session-menu specific (like mr_pouit suggested earlier)
<charlie-tca> are those icons fixed then? It is confusing to see the envelope, just to find out it is pidgin, not email
<charlie-tca> at least the restart thing on live session is not session-menu specific
<ochosi> the indicator-icons are fixed afaik
<ochosi> also: if you install an email-client that supports the messaging menu it will also show up there
<ochosi> (there's thunderbird extension that does that
<ochosi> )
<charlie-tca> will it be a second envelope then for the email?
<mr_pouit> or xchat, empathy, etc.
<ochosi> no, in the same menu
<mr_pouit> no, in the same menu
<ochosi> lol
<mr_pouit> eh ;-)
<charlie-tca> I don't mind it showing up there, but an envelope?
<charlie-tca> I never think of chat when I see that, only email
<ochosi> well, ubuntu has been using this for a few releases now
<charlie-tca> but it has not been by default installation in the panel
<ochosi> i don't really have much of an opinion about the icon, i guess it could be improved
<charlie-tca> It really should be changed to the actual pidgin icon
<ochosi> in ubuntu: yes, in xubuntu: yes (now that we decided to include the indicators)
<charlie-tca> um, in Ubuntu, the envelope is the email, not the chat client
<ochosi> charlie-tca: changing it to the pidgin icon makes no sense, as all other messaging apps will also integrate in that menu/indicator
<ochosi> charlie-tca: no, in ubuntu it's the same, it's the same indicator
<charlie-tca> I will load a live cd and look again, but everytime I click the envelope in the panel in Ubuntu, it opens Evolution
<ochosi> rly? no dropdown?
<charlie-tca> really.
<ochosi> charlie-tca: look here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/
<charlie-tca> it wants to have all the email account information
<ochosi> this is what the envelope-thingy is/does
<charlie-tca> maybe it is supposed to, does is stretching it 
<ochosi> well, anyhow, if you install more apps that use the messaging menu, this is how it will look and this is what it's designed for
<charlie-tca> okay, I will take your word for it then. I will let it alone now
<charlie-tca> I am happy that I got a couple of images to work today
<ochosi> in fact i tried using thunderbird with the extension in xubuntu natty, it also shows up in the menu
<charlie-tca> both alternate images installed for Xubuntu today, first time in a week
<ochosi> (unfortunately the extension isn't included in ubuntu yet, so we can't install the support by default yet)
<charlie-tca> but it will show under the envelope with the other things, right?
<ochosi> yep
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> nice to hear that images are working
<charlie-tca> I am going to try to get a hardware install, and will add all the crap there and see how it works then
<ochosi> sounds good!
<charlie-tca> thanks for explaining it to me
<ochosi> np :)
<charlie-tca> hardware installs are still failing completely
<pleia2> ochosi: you about? need to get you set up with an xubuntu.org account
<ochosi> pleia2: sry, got friends visiting, will you be about in an hour or so?
<pleia2> ochosi: I'm at work, but I should be around-ish, just pleia2: at me :)
<ochosi> pleia2: okeydokey :)
<ochosi> pleia2: ok, i'm ready to pleia2: at you
<pleia2> ok cool
<pleia2> ochosi: what would you like your username to be?
<ochosi> ochosi?
<pleia2> k
<ochosi> :)
<pleia2> email address?
<ochosi> ochosi@shimmerproject.org
<pleia2> we have new news :) http://xubuntu.org/node/42
<pleia2> yay ochosi!
<charlie-tca> Yay!
<charlie-tca> can we forward that to UWN, too?
<pleia2> yea, but UWN hasn't published in a few weeks :\
<charlie-tca> yeah, I know. but we gotta keep trying anyway
<charlie-tca> Reminder: Team Reports for February needs to be updated - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<knome> i have to say that the content-part of the site still looks pretty good with the stuff at top
<ochosi> thanks pleia2 !
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-01
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> hi
<mr_pouit> hi
<charlie-tca> Testing the alpha3 images starting today
<knome> is there any news on getting the slideshow content donw?
<knome> *done
<knome> i could use some time today to update the slides, even with some really WIP material
<knome> would also be nice to get screenshots ready
<knome> makes it look way more ready, and we'll spot things that do not work
<charlie-tca> ochosi: got any screenshots for knome?
<knome> i can see if i can get a3 installed in vbox
<ochosi> charlie-tca, knome: i can maybe do screenshots later in the day
<charlie-tca> We are waiting for a good image at this time
<charlie-tca> they are rebuilding all the images
<knome> okay
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well, i can always make screenshots from my install
<knome> sure
<knome> that's fine as well
<knome> charlie-tca, any comments about the mail i sent to the ML
<mr_pouit> I if take screenshots, be sure to take greybird from git (the latest fixes are not uploaded yet)
<charlie-tca> no, I didn't have any
<mr_pouit> if you*
<charlie-tca> That's why ochosi was going to get them, I thought? that is the most up-to-date.
<ochosi> yep, no worries, i'll take care of the shots
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: stop order given for ppc builds
<charlie-tca> I will write up the news release on it later today
<mr_pouit> yay
<ochosi> charlie-tca: maybe a suggestion for the webteam and the next meeting, the news-posts in xubuntu.org should/could appear in the ubuntu planet
<ochosi> (otherwise possibly no-one will *ever* read it)
<knome> i can do that today
<charlie-tca> They will, as soon as we get it moved to wordpress
<knome> we can do that already
<charlie-tca> I thought drupal did not let us do that (seemed to be one of the reasons to migrate to wordpress)
<knome> it does
<knome> that was never a reason to migrate
<knome> the reason not to add our site/feed now was that it's still ugly, and we'd like people see the new, shiny site
<charlie-tca> Is migrate to wordpress going to cause issues if we turn that on?
<charlie-tca> We don't care if it ugly, we care if we are getting news to those who need to read it
<knome> well, not really "issues", but we need to link again/update our feed url
<charlie-tca> Does that mean everything goes to the planet twice?
<knome> no
<knome> that means that if we don't change the url, there will be no new news
<charlie-tca> and we are talking about just the news releases, right?
<knome> well, anything on our site
<knome> at least wp can filter them to just news, probably drupal also (but i don't know that off the top of my head)
<charlie-tca> Explain? Anything on our site means we make a change to the download page, it goes to the planet?
<knome> no
<knome> the "articles"
<knome> whether they were news releases or something else
<knome> like the artwork article by ochosi 
<charlie-tca> okay, turn it on
<charlie-tca> they should all be in the same place, I thought?
<knome> i'll do that today
<knome> http://feeds.feedburner.com/Xubuntu?format=xml
<charlie-tca> Isn't that the normal rss feed?
<knome> yeah?
<charlie-tca> turn it on, then. Seems good
<knome> yeah. as i said, i'll do that later today
<charlie-tca> right now, we forward things to UNW to get them published.
<ochosi> nice, thanks knome and charlie-tca 
<knome> ochosi, np
<charlie-tca> knome: question? can you repunch ochosi's article to make it go through again after turning the feed on?
<knome> i can't - i have no account in xububtu.org drupal
 * ochosi pokes micahg 
<ochosi> micahg: nvm, already solved it
<charlie-tca> um, whatever we are using for notifications in natty alpha2, they do not cover each other up, but instead list individually down the screen
<charlie-tca> You lose a lot of screen to them now
<Sysi> that sounds better that not seeing all of them
<charlie-tca> depends on many times you like telling them to close so you can continue working
<charlie-tca> since they hide what ever should be on screen
<Sysi> i set them to disappear in 4secs, what is the default?
<charlie-tca> If you load a music cd and it plasters every song up, it won't matter how long they are, will it?
<charlie-tca> a screen full of notices is not fun
<Sysi> never seen that happening
<charlie-tca> I have a crash notice, an update notice, and an information notice, that is the top half of the screen
<TDO|Aquina> hello!
<charlie-tca> Been a while!
<charlie-tca> Hello
<TDO|Aquina> Yes, it's bee a while.
<TDO|Aquina> I decided to have a look when I received the latest artwors newsletter.
<TDO|Aquina> I see you're in good shape. Are you?
<charlie-tca> hopefully. the themes are done, thanks to ochosi.
<charlie-tca> Wallpaper cutoff is March 10, we should have time to select one and get any changes in for it.
<charlie-tca> This is looking to be a great release, with many changes
<TDO|Aquina> In case you look for grey I#ve got a modified version of an earlier image. Wanna see?
<charlie-tca> sure
<TDO|Aquina> http://tron-delta.org/database/xubuntu_security_enhanced_aquina_2011.png
<charlie-tca> that's nice! 
<TDO|Aquina> :-)
<knome> that's the old style and font though
<TDO|Aquina> yes
<TDO|Aquina> I like old things. :-)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-02
<TDO|Aquina> cu
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, ochosi : I have not seen the restart/shutdown to gdm bug in the alpha3 testing yet
<charlie-tca> alternate images are completed
<charlie-tca> starting desktop image testing now
<ochosi> charlie-tca: same here, also wanted to say that today, that i haven't experienced the restart bug with the latest updates installed
<charlie-tca> Great! Maybe it is fixed now?
 * ochosi knocks on wood
<charlie-tca> hm, I dumped water on a keyboard last night, today that computer is freezing during installs
<charlie-tca> It acts like it doesn't like working today... 
 * charlie-tca knows about the drinks at the computer things, but ...
<ochosi> hm, usually spillings drinks on keyboard wasn't a problem for me
<ochosi> drying it up solved it
<charlie-tca> I don't understand it at all. You wouldn't think a bit of water would be a bad thing
<ochosi> lol
<charlie-tca> The keyboard was dirty, too
<ochosi> then maybe the water was good ;)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I thought the way before this freezing thing started
<knome> well, i know you really shouldn't have *water* near computers, but rum and other alcoholic beverages are completely different
<ochosi> +1 ;)
<charlie-tca> Water doesn't get sticky though
<knome> neither does rum etc if you drink it and not spill it on your keyboard
<charlie-tca> hm, if I had drunk it, it wouldn't be on the keyboard :-)
<charlie-tca> Maybe I got too many computers running at once again.
<davmor2> charlie-tca: get it cold enough and stick it on your tongue you'll be amazed at how sticky water can be ;)
<charlie-tca> that's the pipe, not the water
<charlie-tca> oh, and the water, huh?
<knome> davmor2, haha, right to the laughter nerve
<knome> charlie-tca, well, try to make the water -30
<charlie-tca> keyboard to go outside, after this installation attempt
<charlie-tca> ran into the restart goes to gdm, fresh install in VBox, amd64
<charlie-tca> but it does not return to gdm on F7. It went to F8 instead, and F7 is blank
<mark76> What's the CLI command for untarring a tar.gz?
<mark76> Wrong room
<TheSheep> tar xvfz yourfile.tar.gz
<TheSheep> and yes, wrong :)
<ochosi> arr, thunar's startup lag is really annoying
<Sysi> not as annoying as lag when removing files
<knome> not as annoying as lag when you've ordered a drink
<knome> instant win
<ochosi> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-03
<knome> i added the xubuntu feed to planet ubuntu 20 seconds ago.
<charlie-tca> thank you
<micahg> charlie-tca: I'm sorry, but I haven't heard back from persia about the ARM installers, I could test next week and we could release it late if you're interested
<charlie-tca> heh, at the rate it is going, ARM might not be ready anyway
<charlie-tca> I think they are rebuilding the image again
<charlie-tca> We did not have them for us this time. Maybe we can start building and testing them, and plan for beta release?
<charlie-tca> That is only a month away
<PsynoKhi0> heya
<ochosi> hi
<PsynoKhi0> I've just tried the daily build for xubuntu natty, really impressed by the polished look
<PsynoKhi0> though did I miss it or has the desktop switcher applet been removed from the default layout?
<mr_pouit> The workspace switcher will probably come back, after the alpha 3 release
<PsynoKhi0> great :)
<ochosi> thanks for the nice feedback PsynoKhi0 
<PsynoKhi0> np, you deserve it guys! almost making me want to drop KDE4 heh
<PsynoKhi0> there's only one thing that kind of bugs me, it's the menu icon
<ochosi> yeah, that's work in progress
<PsynoKhi0> though only if it take it from a "first time user"'s perspective
<PsynoKhi0> it's like the smallest icon of all with no rel clue that it's a menu icon unless you hover the mouse over it
<PsynoKhi0> no real*
<PsynoKhi0> mind you, this more or less plagues any recent DE
<ochosi> currently we were thinking to make it monochrome
<PsynoKhi0> hell even MS seem to think they can get away with nothing but an icon - they prolly believe they can afford that because of the windows mindshare
<ochosi> but tbh i don't really know how the icon could suggest "menu"
<PsynoKhi0> I think it should contrast with the rest of the desktop
<ochosi> as in: make it pink? :)
<PsynoKhi0> URGH
<ochosi> well, it kinda does contrast with the rest of the DE atm because it's not monochrome
<PsynoKhi0> hmm well take the start button in XP... dault is a green button with a big fat START on it, over a blue taskbar... what would a brand new computer user do when seeing the desktop for the first time?
<PsynoKhi0> hard to miss, isn't it?
<PsynoKhi0> dault -> default
<ochosi> probably, but tbh when i was still using windows i always thought: "why the heck does it say 'start'"?
<PsynoKhi0> dunno... but it has pretty strong "whenever you have no clue what to do next, try pressing here" semantics
<ochosi> ok, so assuming we stick with only the icon, no text, what would you suggest?
<PsynoKhi0> hmm do you have a screenshot of the current dafault layout?
<PsynoKhi0> oh boy, gotta learn to type default right
<ochosi> lol, yeah :)
<PsynoKhi0> a pic of the top left corner will do
<ochosi> this is approx the default http://imagebin.org/140898
<PsynoKhi0> awesome ty! gonna slaughter it a bit ;P
<ochosi> sure, go ahead
<mark76> Is that xfce4-panel with alpha transparency at the bottom?
<ochosi> mark76: yes
<mark76> Nice
<PsynoKhi0> sigh I suck at GIMP....
<PsynoKhi0> http://img593.imageshack.us/i/panelit3bigmenubutton.png/ anyway something like this
<PsynoKhi0> but professionally done >.<
<ochosi> woah
<ochosi> so you want to make it ellipse-shaped
<PsynoKhi0> yes it's butt ugly
<ochosi> ?
<PsynoKhi0> nah, dunno, couldn't get the corners round
<PsynoKhi0> :|
<ochosi> we were considering something like the lubuntu menu-button
<ochosi> but not sure yet whether it's possible in xfce-panel
<PsynoKhi0> ah
<ochosi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Artwork/Incoming/Natty/Ozone
<ochosi> > panel
<PsynoKhi0> anyway you could have the icon bigger ieven if the top and buttom are slightly cut off?
<ochosi> probably
<ochosi> not sure whether the icon will be cut off or scaled
<PsynoKhi0> hmm lubuntu might be on the right track, though still not sold on flat menu buttons with no text... doesn't really scream "CLICK MEH!!!" but it could be just me hehe
<PsynoKhi0> oh well, I guess users CAN learn too :)
<ochosi> yeah, the install-slideshow will highlight the app-menu and the button
<ochosi> so it's not necessarily a problem
<PsynoKhi0> true
<ochosi> and i don't want a button that screams at me for everyday-work
<PsynoKhi0> hehe
<PsynoKhi0> so you're assuming that people know their way around, or watch the slideshow, or get help for the first post install steps, I guess it's fair enough
<ochosi> mr_pouit: btw, i asked again in #xfce-dev about thunar's startup-lag and jannis and nick still seem to be convinced that adding the daemon to autostart solves the issue
<ochosi> PsynoKhi0: yep, and there are also users that might get what that button does by a) intuition or b) trying to click it ;)
<PsynoKhi0> if they do understand it's a button :P
<ochosi> well, if they're too afraid to click anywhere, how will they even install the system?
<PsynoKhi0> well I'm using the following scenario as a starting point: someone who gets a computer/tablet/whatever as a present with any *buntu flavor preinstalled... what are the first reactions?
<PsynoKhi0> oh and that person has not heard let alone used *buntu before
<ochosi> sure, it's a valid (even not exactly the standard) scenario
<ochosi> +if
<PsynoKhi0> though yes it might not be your target audience :)
<ochosi> yeah, maybe not ;)
<ochosi> but in the end i don't think there's a clear audience for xubuntu
<PsynoKhi0> still wishing for some big OEM putting *buntu systems on local electronics shop :D
<ochosi> good luck with that
<PsynoKhi0> I know...
<ochosi> sry, g2g, lunch ->
<ochosi> bbl
<PsynoKhi0> every bit helps though
<PsynoKhi0> kk cya!:)
<ochosi> yep, cu
<mr_pouit> ochosi: clearly not, because Thunar --daemon is already launched by default by xfce4-session here :/
<PsynoKhi0> ochosi?
<PsynoKhi0> ah nvm
<mr_pouit> ochosi: imho, it is slow to start, because it needs to start all gio network daemons (gvfsd-{smb,dns}, etc.)
<mr_pouit> if you compare ps output before and after, you can see more of them
<mr_pouit> ah, and tumbler of course
<mr_pouit> if you compare with nautilus: nautilus loads them only when you click on the "network" shortcut
<mr_pouit> (so it's faster to start the first time)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yay, I think I identified the cause of the startup lag: the "Network" bookmark
<ochosi> mr_pouit: let's hope we can fix that! :)
<mr_pouit> for 4.8, I'm not sure :}
<ochosi> for 11.04? ;)
<ochosi> i mean can we patch it
<mr_pouit> well, if what I wrote is not too wrong, I don't see any unintrusive way of patching :/
<ochosi> arrh
<ochosi> g2g, sry, i won't be able to attend the meeting tonight i'm afriad
<ochosi> not many updates from my side anyway, apart from xfwm4 finished and all
<ochosi> ->
<charlie-tca> well, I forgot to tell vinnl we need a news release for alpha3
<charlie-tca> Natty Alpha3 released!
<charlie-tca> Congratulations for a well-done effort
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 25 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<charlie-tca> if freenode settles down enough
<micahg> charlie-tca: I'll be a little late for the meeting
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> no problem, I don't know if I will make it at the rate the splits are going
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-04
<PsynoKhi0> hi
<knome> hello
<PsynoKhi0> ochosi: ready for 8 more menu icons suggestions? ;P
<PsynoKhi0> or maybe knome?
<ochosi> sure
<PsynoKhi0> well there are variations on the idea basically
<PsynoKhi0> http://img832.imageshack.us/i/panelit3bigmenubutton2.png/
<PsynoKhi0> http://img820.imageshack.us/i/panelit3bigmenubutton3.png/ without the blue background
<ochosi> hm, not (entirely) bad, but it doesn't really look like a button anymore
<ochosi> iirc you wanted something that would make people click it
<ochosi> it looks a bit like being just a bg-image of the panel now
<PsynoKhi0> patience!! :D
<ochosi> but basically i get what you're suggesting and i think it's a possibly good direction
<PsynoKhi0> http://img251.imageshack.us/i/panelit3bigmenubutton5.png/ this one with the blue ubuntu logo inside the mouse
<PsynoKhi0> e.g. xubuntu's variation of the circle thingie
<ochosi> hm, the overlay is a bit confusing
<ochosi> sry, i got to go now
<ochosi> we can discuss this later
<ochosi> bbl
<PsynoKhi0> sure
<PsynoKhi0> cya!
<PsynoKhi0> knome: any opinion?
<knome> PsynoKhi0, 2 is the best, but i agree with ochosi that it maybe needs some work to look more like a button
<PsynoKhi0> definitely, basically the idea was to check how having the XFCE mouse much bigger though slightly cut out would turn out
<knome> mmh, i'm not sure, it isn't bad but i don't know if it's good enough
<PsynoKhi0> in what way?
<PsynoKhi0> not enough "this is a button" semantics?
<knome> yeah
<PsynoKhi0> true
<PsynoKhi0> http://img145.imageshack.us/i/panelit3bigmenubutton6.png/ this one is a B&W inverted variation of the first
<knome> mmh
<knome> i'd say too much contrast
<PsynoKhi0> I see
<knome> also, i'd say let's try to stick with the original colors
<PsynoKhi0> though IMO the menu button should contrast with the rest of the desktop due to it's central role
<PsynoKhi0> ok
<PsynoKhi0> http://img696.imageshack.us/i/panelit3bigmenubutton9.png/ this one I'm not too sure, kinda hard to figure out it's the blue ubuntu logo in the back
<knome> yeah
<PsynoKhi0> having only the white mouse without a background is risky however with light themes
<knome> true
<PsynoKhi0> so a black outline maybe
<Sysi> (xfce4-screenshooter can take shots of part of the screen too)
<PsynoKhi0> I worked based on a screenshot provided by ochosi and I wanted to make sure people would get the idea of how the dektop would look like as a whole
<Sysi> ah
<PsynoKhi0> though yes tweaking and uploading individual files in kind of a PitA ;)
<PsynoKhi0> http://img8.imageshack.us/i/panelit3bigmenubutton10.png/ didn't turn out so well :(
<PsynoKhi0> there might be a way to "buttonize" the mouse
<Sysi> did we long time ago thought about icon with three mouses placed like kubuntu logo?
<Sysi> kubuntu logo is so great but that small mouses may be problem
<PsynoKhi0> guess so... the current menu button is microscopic
<Sysi> if we had text "Xubuntu" it wouldn't need translating.. but would it look bad?
<PsynoKhi0> from what I've gathered they want to avoid text
<Sysi> i know
<PsynoKhi0> bbl
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Another wonderful day to improve what we can, but we can not allow things to become overwhelming!
<PsynoKhi0> ochosi: http://img17.imageshack.us/f/panelit3bigmenubutton12.png/ though it's flat
<PsynoKhi0> ah still away nvm
<PsynoKhi0> any taker?
<charlie-tca> the netsplits are starting early today
<ochosi_> PsynoKhi0: the last version (with the arrow) is kinda funny, i remember tons of threads on ubuntuforums on how to get rid of the arrow in the gnome-menu :)
<ochosi_> PsynoKhi0: anyway, i think making the button "glow" might be a good idea
<charlie-tca> ochosi: no workspace switcher in alpha3?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: no i don't think we managed to do that change early enough
<charlie-tca> We are doing it, though, right/
<charlie-tca> It is not in today's image, either
<mr_pouit> Alpha 3 doesn't have the latest greybird nor the workspace switcher, because the alpha freeze started on sunday evening, and I wasn't available to upload the changes before
<charlie-tca> Thanks.
 * micahg thought it started Mon evening
<charlie-tca> Depends on the country you are in at the time
<charlie-tca> Um, Beta1 is March 31
 * micahg doesn't think mr_pouit is in the Pacific Rim
<micahg> that makes no sense, ignore me
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit is on the old schedule, perhaps?
<charlie-tca> anyway, he said he will get it in for the beta, that counts
<micahg> ochosi: if you can ping me when gmusicbrowser needs an upgrade, that would be great
<ochosi> micahg: sure will do
<ochosi> micahg: 1.1.7 is around the corner
<ochosi> micahg: i talked to the dev yesterday and most of my changes will go upstream to that version, so very little to patch after that
<mr_pouit> (it was "Alpha 3 freeze 2/27 2300 UTC", iirc)
<micahg> oh,hmm, that almost seems like a typo
<mr_pouit> ahah, maybe, I thought they had a good reason to freeze earlier than usual
<charlie-tca> hm, blame me if I put that one in
<mr_pouit> "new" greybird uploaded in xubuntu-artwork 11.04.2
<mr_pouit> the workspace switcher will follow, ochosi is doing some experiments at the moment ;P
<charlie-tca> Thank you, mr_pouit. As always, that is greatly appreciated.
<charlie-tca> I just wanted to know we had not forgotten workspace switcher, with all we try to get done.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: apologies for missing the meeting yesterday, recovering from a flu (no updates anyway, still waiting on that ticket)
<charlie-tca> Better to recover than to wear yourself out. 
<knome> Better to drink than drive.
<knome> oh wait...
<knome> ;)
<knome> that was a different onw
<knome> *one
<Sysi> "it's better to burn out than to fade away" :P
<mr_pouit> "never run with scissors"?
<knome> hmm
<charlie-tca> Don't play with fire if you don't want to get burned
<knome> don't play with fire unless you want to eat your food warm?
<Sysi> are we heading to something?
<knome> grace?
<knome> *grave?
<charlie-tca> hoping to stay on the green side of the dirt
<knome> heh
<knome> hoping that the dirt doesn't end up in our pants?
<charlie-tca> or on them
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-05
<PsynoKhi0> hi
<PsynoKhi0> ochosi: http://img577.imageshack.us/f/panelit3bigmenubutton13.png/ :D
<PsynoKhi0> darn
<Sysi> i was thinking.. if we want wider icon, how about mouse and ~ubuntu-logo next to each other on blue background?
<PsynoKhi0> hmm I think having them next to each other would amke users think they're 2 separate things
<PsynoKhi0> though yes I do think combining the xfce mouse and the ubuntu logo in some way would be even better than only the mouse
<Sysi> same background, different from panel
<Sysi> it still could look weird
<PsynoKhi0> http://img232.imageshack.us/f/panelit3bigmenubutton14.png/
<PsynoKhi0> or a smaller mouse with the ubuntu logo to the left
<PsynoKhi0> nah
<PsynoKhi0> would look like the mouse is saying "Ubuntu? Let me the hell outta here!" :D
<Sysi> mouse chasing ubuntu? :P
<PsynoKhi0> could make the ubuntu logo look  like cheese
<PsynoKhi0> :D
<PsynoKhi0> not sure I have a complete picture of the mouse though
<PsynoKhi0> guess I could hack together something from xfce's homepage
<ochosi> PsynoKhi0: tbh i think i have to try/see your menu icons in action to be able to really judge them
<ochosi> PsynoKhi0: and: i'm not sure as to how wide the button should really be, seems like 1:2 in your mockup
<PsynoKhi0> ochosi: indeed, was wondering if xfce allowed non square buttons/icons
<PsynoKhi0> though I stand by my conviction that the menu button shoul be the largest one on a clean panel :D
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-06
<ochosi> hi everyone
<micahg> hi ochosi
<ochosi> micahg: do you have an opinion on theming?
<micahg> ochosi: usually not unless it's atrocious
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> well, i'm considering to give the menus a dark background
<ochosi> but keep a bright menubar
<micahg> that sounds like it'll contrast poorly
<ochosi> dunno whether you've tested/seen greybird so far
<micahg> ochosi: upgrading to natty now
<ochosi> how do you mean it'll contrast poorly?
<micahg> dark vs light
<ochosi> yeah, but the font-color will be bright
<micahg> oh, well, actually looking at the theme in maverick, it's dark and light, so I guess it wouldn't be that bad
<micahg> you have a sample to lookat?
<ochosi> well, it would be something like this: http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TXKh77ChufI/AAAAAAAADTg/sEwh7Wpy9Go/elementary-gtk-theme-2.1.png
<ochosi> but the menus/panels not as dark as here
 * micahg fires up midori ;)
<ochosi> i just realised that the dark panel-bg kind of makes you wish for dark indicator menus
<ochosi> i achieved that yesterday and made them dark, then i realised that the app-menu should probably also be dark for consistency
<ochosi> and since i'm not sure it's possible to theme that independently of other menus i think it's either all or nothing
<micahg> hmm, looks monochrome
<micahg> except for the highlight
<ochosi> well, the shot isn't really representative as there aren't even icons in the menus (xubuntu has those activated)
<ochosi> i mean there are two options imo, either make the menus brighter than atm or darker
<ochosi> (both would mean better contrast/readability i think)
<ochosi> micahg: hm, so what do you think, is it worth a try?
<ochosi> (it's not like we can't change it back later)
<micahg> ochosi: idk, might be worth asking others, seems ok to me, but style isn't my strong point
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> yeah, i'll maybe give it a shot so i can at least present screenshots
<ochosi> otherwise people won't really know what it looks like
<ochosi> micahg: you still around?
<micahg> ochosi: yep
<ochosi> if you're still interested in a screenshot i can now provide one
<ochosi> micahg: http://imagebin.org/141414
<micahg> ochosi: crashes midori :P, will check in firefox after reboot
<ochosi> micahg: right :)
<micahg> brb, hopefully :)
<micahg> ochosi: any idea where the network manager went?
<ochosi> micahg: what do you mean?
<ochosi> micahg: is it not in the panel?
<ochosi> micahg: (if xfce4-indicator is in the panel, nm-applet should be displayed as an indicator, otherwise it should be in the systray)
<micahg> no, it's not
<ochosi> are you using the default panel layout?
 * micahg has no idea, my panel settings were lost on upgrade
 * micahg does not like some of the new panel applets
<ochosi> right, does it look like this: http://wiki.knome.fi/_detail/shimmer:panel_it4.png?id=xubuntu%3Anatty_panel
<micahg> I don't have the wireless
<micahg> or the name thingy
<ochosi> micahg: and the rest is there? (the lower panel is on autohide by default)
<ochosi> check in the panel preferences whether the systray and the indicator plugin are there, if not, add them
 * micahg doesn't see a systray option
<micahg> but all the other old icons are there
<ochosi> no, i mean check in the panel preferences (there's an item-list) whether the indicator plugin is there and if not add it and restart the panel
<micahg> indicator-plugin is there, but I don't have the network indicator, I just want nm-applet
<ochosi> nm-applet can be either displayed as indicator or as systray-icon
<ochosi> that depends on what you have in your panel
<micahg> ugh, I have both
<ochosi> if indicator-plugin is there, nm-applet will behave like an indicator
<ochosi> if both are there, it's also an indicator
<micahg> ok, so indicators were messed up, removed indicator plugin and got my session menu back
<ochosi> right
 * micahg gives up on nm-applet until monday
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> well, dunno, for me it works either way
 * micahg will just blame cyphermox :)
<ochosi> is that an indicator-dev?
<micahg> no, he's the network manager dev
<ochosi> right :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-27
<jarnos> Put software-properties-gtk back in the system menu, please. It is not good to require people to open Synaptic Package Manager just to adjust updates.
<micahg> huh?
<micahg> we didn't change anything of that nature AFAICT
<micahg> and it's still seeded, so it should be there
<jarnos> micahg, I don't remember, if it is in the menu in 11.10, but it is not there in 11.04. It was there in some earlier releases.
<micahg> NoDisplay=true might have something to do with it in /usr/share/applications/software-properties-gtk.desktop
<jarnos> micahg, thanks for the hacking hint.
<micahg> jarnos: is that's something needed, we can consider adding a ShowInXfce=true field
<micahg> er...OnlyShowIn=Xfce
<micahg> xfce might be lowercase
<jarnos> micahg, what if some other *ubuntu-desktop has software-properties-gtk.desktop, and a user has installed both?
<micahg> it would only show in WM that are showed in ShowOnlyIn
<jarnos> micahg, if you installed ?ubuntu-desktop after xubuntu-desktop, would the desktop file be overwritten or somehow merged, or is the desktop file selection universal i.e same in every desktop?
<micahg> jarnos: no, we'd modify the .desktop file in the package
<jarnos> micahg, Ok, I see.
<mr_pouit> hey
<mr_pouit> micahg: +1 for dropping quadrasomethingwithaweirdname ;-)
<mr_pouit> micahg: for lightdm-gtk-greeter, what's the status?
<micahg> mr_pouit: alright, I'll make the changes, as for lightdm-gtk-greeter, I actually didn't get to it, the differences were to great to get to on Friday and I've been busy with other things, right now I'm trying to get Ubuntu Studio back to having an image for beta 1
<mr_pouit> no problem, I wasn't really present last weekend anyway ;>
<micahg> mr_pouit: is anything broke ATM with the old version?
<micahg> mr_pouit: is anything broke ATM with the old version?/
<micahg> oops
<micahg> mr_pouit: why did we remove nm-applet from starting?
<mr_pouit> we didn't, it's hidden(TM)
<mr_pouit> :(
<micahg> oh, that seems wrong
<mr_pouit> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/354
<mr_pouit> that's because of the latest nm-applet upload
<mr_pouit> and I thought this gconf key would only hide it from the systray
<mr_pouit> (and of course, I was wrong)
<mr_pouit> (the patch of nm-applet is broken too anyway...)
<mr_pouit> Bug #829673 and Bug #938380
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 829673 in Ubuntu network, Bluetooth, keyboard menus "FFE: No easy way to turn the network menu on/off" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/829673
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 938380 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Network-manager icon displayed twice in panel" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938380
<micahg> ah, hopefully he'll fix it today :)
<mr_pouit> (I've added more info to the bug reports)
<mr_pouit> worse is I tested my change to xubuntu-default-settings, and I remember thinking "good, it's not visible (in the systray) anymore" >.<
<mr_pouit> and for the software-properties issue, 'NoDisplay=true' was added by seb128 in 0.82.2 to hide it from gnome-control-center
<mr_pouit> (but apparently the app is also available from software-center and update-manager, so I don't think we should make it visible again)
<micahg> yes, it is
<astraljava> knome: I (very nearly) finalized the ubiquity package for Studio, so slight modifications only needed for Xubuntu's equivalent. Will do that tomorrow. Also, file the necessary FFe bug for it.
<micahg> mr_pouit: knome: should I seed alacarte when I remove quadrapassel?  we should have enough room now
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-28
<mr_pouit> micahg: +1 for alacarte, thanks.
<knome> micahg, mmh, yeah, ship alacarte :)
<micahg> do we need this for beta 1 and do we have testers?
<knome> Unit193, do we have testers?
<mr_pouit> (this should be safe, but if we don't have enough testers, we can add it after the beta)
<mr_pouit> micahg: feel free to revert http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/354 and upload x-d-s 12.04.8 (I can't upload until ~18 utc)
<mr_pouit> the nm-applet bug should be fixed
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, I guess I can do that before bed so we get working images
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: thanks for both of you - it's very much appreciated :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: is the applet useful on the images?
<micahg> I geuss it would be
<mr_pouit> well, it's invisible with the current x-d-s :(
<mr_pouit> so people will think nm is missing
<mr_pouit> "gconftool-2 -s /apps/nm-applet/show-applet -t bool true"
<mr_pouit> or we could add that to the releases notes
<micahg> let me ask
<micahg> ok, green light, I'm making the other changes we discussed as well
<knome> i'm out ->
 * micahg -> zzz, packages uploaded, images should be respun once those are published
<mr_pouit> yay, thanks!
<leo-unglaub> hey guys
<leo-unglaub> i am currently hacking the task manager
<pleia2> knome: cleaning up my test system, any reason for me to keep xubuntu.p.c active? (planning on just disabling it in apache for now)
<leo-unglaub> and i am addding some expert features
<leo-unglaub> anything you want in there?
<leo-unglaub> some features?
<knome> pleia2, nope :)
 * pleia2 a2dissite!
<Unit193> knome: Don't ask me, I don't know. I'm syncing them myself though.
<knome> pleia2, you admin of the xubuntu-dev mailing list?
<knome> and how come i am not
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: can you elaborate with me on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseManifest ?
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: is that fine?
<knome> skaet, will the announcement for xubuntu be handled by somebody else for ubuntu-announce?
<pleia2> knome: nope
<knome> pleia2, right'o
<knome> cody-somerville, you admin of the xubuntu-devel mailing list? could i have some access right pleeeease
<skaet> knome,  not quite sure I'm following? ...  I'll have links like we've done in the past.
 * skaet goes look up historical one..
<knome> skaet, yeah, that's fine. i was just asking re: the link you sent me
<knome> err, the link i posted on this channel too ;)
<cody-somerville> knome, see pm
<skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2011-September/000362.html
<skaet> knome,  ok - will be looking for content from the xubuntu team (you and others)...   Comments of what you're wanting should go into the beta should go: 
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview
<skaet> for the release we'll be following something similar but differnt link to gather release notes.
<skaet> let me know who might be sending out an announce to the xubuntu users, and I'll ping them when the ubuntu one is ready
<knome> skaet, pleia2 should take care of that w/ me
<skaet> knome,  pleia2 - coolio.  :)   will ping you in this channel then.  ;)
<knome> skaet, sure, thanks
<knome> pleia2, you still in?
<pleia2> knome: yep, that's fine
<knome> okay, good
<pleia2> I don't actually know our changes though, so I can more help on reviewing
<knome> well, we should be able to gather the changes from http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/group/topic-precise-flavor-xubuntu.html
<pleia2> ok
<Unit193> knome: Something you wanted tested?
<knome> Unit193, alacarte
<Unit193> Figured, alright.
<Unit193> Alacarte is installed and seems to be working, but I don't see it in the menu...
<baizon> under settings?
<baizon> i can see it
<Unit193> Precise?
<Unit193> Oh, doh... Thought it was called something else, disregard that. :P
<Unit193> baizon: Thanks :facepalms:
<baizon> Unit193: np
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-29
<Unit193> I'd really recommend at least 1 or 2 larger screenshots on the site...
<knome> urggh
<pleia2> good day, knome!
<knome> hey pleia2 
<pleia2> I'll try to look through the burndown chart this evening to help with beta notes, but work is very busy today
<knome> http://pad.xfce.org/p/xubuntu-precise-betanotes
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: is alacarte seeded for beta??
<baizon> knome: thank you :)
<knome> baizon, for?
<baizon> for that info :D
<knome> that was a question
<baizon> ah ok
<knome> it should be, but i'm double-checkin
<knome> pleia2, http://pad.xfce.org/p/xubuntu-precise-betanotes should be quite complete already...
<pleia2> knome: oh good :) I'll review later and maybe add some pretty intro/conclusion text
<pleia2> (for our blog post about it)
<knome> yep, thanks
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseManifest -- i don't understand what ship-live means in that context
<knome> or in any context
<knome> HALP!
<knome> or, why is it /desktop where everybody else is /live ?
<hobgoblin> got a really strange font issue in 12.04 - everything takes what I tell it except system settings window titles - what I'd like to know is what package to report it against - http://i.imgur.com/7zLPn.png - tia
<micahg> knome: yes, should be seeded
<hobgoblin> nvm - apparently you can only change with styles - thanks anyway 
<pleia2> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11728015&postcount=4 is the response hobgoblin got on the forums, correct?
<Unit193> knome: It is when I tested yesterday.
<Unit193> s/is/was/
<astraljava> knome: Sorry for the delay with the -live package. I'm so exhausted after a day of shoveling snow, that I have no energy to do anything. This weekend it'll happen, unless tomorrow or Friday is an easier day.
<knome> astraljava, okay, thanks for telling and np :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: we won't be able to use gtk3 only indicators with xfce being on gtk2 still, right?
 * micahg seriously hopes 13.04 will bring a gtk3 xfce
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-01
<pleia2> knome: updated the pad (quick question about wording of the first item) and created a draft in wordpress for the announcement (linked in pad, just log in to see)
<pleia2> testing people: any "known issues" we should include in the announcement?
<Unit193> Last I knew Ubiquity was off color.
<Unit193> When is that going up?
<pleia2> at release
<Unit193> Yeah, don't know when that one is. :P
<pleia2> no one does :)
<pleia2> some time on March 1st
<pleia2> 1010-xubuntu-icon.svg has failed to upload due to an error Sorry, this file type is not permitted for security reasons.
<pleia2> oh wordpress :\
<Unit193> Did you happen to see my comment last night? :P
<mr_pouit> micahg: no, it's not possible :/
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, so, for 12.10, we'll either have to fight for the gtk2 indicators to remain or fork the code :-/
<mr_pouit> yep, we'll probably have to fork+reintroduce gtk2 packages
<mr_pouit> (just reading the latest mail from ted on devel confirms that we don't use the same ubuntu archive anyway)
<micahg> heh, I need to respond to that one still
<mr_pouit> slangasek already responded that the idea was insane for universe anyway
<micahg> yeah, as did doko, but I want to address the indicator point specifically
<micahg> we're stuck until at least 13.04 as is Ubuntu Studio
<mr_pouit> we already knew that they'd drop gtk2 support eventually
<mr_pouit> I'm glad it's still in precise
<micahg> yeah, but if we can keep it through 12.10, I'd be happy
<micahg> well, gtk2 is still in main for precise :), might not be there for 12.10 though
<micahg> for 13.04 I think we need to jump to 4.11.x regardless of the release date (unless they're not planning it until 2014)
<mr_pouit> (I'm afraid that it might be as usual, meaning not ready for 14.04)
<micahg> well, 4.10 should be next month (hopeful)
<nelson8874> hello
<nelson8874> I need to slow down my mouse. How can i do that?
<Riddell> more tests needed for beta 1 http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds
<Riddell> knome ^^
<skaet> pleia2, pasi, madnick - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview needs a scrub for Xubuntu - can some take a pass at it?
<skaet> knome ^
<G__81> hi everyone installed xubuntu for the first time and its really cool. I have used xfce in fedora but i see a big difference with xubuntu compared to fedora. Great work
<G__81> i am interested in contributing and being part of the team. Whats the starting point
<knome> skaet, sorry, http://pastebin.com/Vciq0t7U should be it
<knome> Riddell, we need how many more tests - and do we need them today?
<Riddell> knome: we are releasing in the next hour or three, I don't know how many you'd need to look at the your entries on the iso tracker
<knome> do we need one of each, or 5/5 etc?
<Riddell> paste.kde.org || paste.ubuntu.com >> pastebin
<Riddell> the ones marked "Mandatory" should be done but skaet will have the final decision
<knome> skaet, can you elaborate?
<skaet> knome,   if you don't believe the tests should be mandatory,  please review and update the tests before beta 2.
<knome> skaet, will do that. what about beta1 release, do you feel comfortable in releasing us, or would you need some more tests?
<knome>  i mean, i could maybe do one or two, depending when you'll release
<skaet> knome,   if there are some tests done in the prior spins,  and you have confidence the images are good to ship and won't cause your users too many problems they can't recover from,  we can look at releasing.
<skaet> knome,  its what you think is safe and good for the xubuntu community too. 
<knome> afaik, there hasn't been any major issues - how do i check the tests for prior spins then?
<skaet> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/history
<knome> Unit193, you online?
 * knome gets some painkillers
<knome> one test more done
<knome> skaet, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview is updated
<skaet> knome,  thanks.    how goes testing?
<knome> i'm running another test now, and holstein is running one more
<pleia2> Unit193: can you submit a bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website for a feature request (re: screenshots), busy time for me right now so it's hard for me to keep track of things mentioned in irc
<knome> G__81, joining this channel is a good start :)
<knome> G__81, and hey
<skaet> thanks knome,   probably have about an hour before the ship or not decision gets made.   Sorry you're having to crunch it... :(
<G__81> knome, hey
<knome> skaet, well, can't blame you :)
<knome> skaet, i'm pretty confident that's a "ship" though
<knome> i'm running two tests parallel now
 * skaet nods
<holstein> skaet: question... im testing the resize scenario in the 386 desktop iso area
<holstein> first step references the alternate iso... do i just do that with the live CD?
<holstein> and assume a typo in the test case?
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/208/builds/12682/testcases/134/results is where i am
 * knome starts his fourth tests
<knome> -s
<knome> holstein, i think you can expect a typo
<knome> holstein, you near finishing?
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: should the nm-applet be visible in today's builds?
<holstein> nope :/
<knome> micahg, micahg: i mean, in live
<knome> meh
<Unit193> knome: Nope.
<knome> nope what?
<knome> skaet, you can ship xubuntu beta1. the technical overview -page is updated :)
<knome> skaet, thanks. i'll make sure we get the tests right for beta2.
<skaet> Thanks knome.  :)    Please go ahead and add to the TechnicalOverview any bugs that you think Xubuntu specific users might encounter and you want to warn them about.
<knome> skaet, yeah, i just did.
 * skaet hugs knome
 * knome hugs skaet
<skaet> :)
 * knome goes as far away from computers as he can
<knome> ...so, about 3m
<pleia2> I'll add the nm-line to known issues in our announcement
<holstein> yeah... im still waiting on an NTFS partition to be created :/
<Unit193> I had nm-applet in alt, IIRC.
<Riddell> knome: ping
<Riddell> your PR needs some work https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview#Xubuntu
<Riddell> please tidy
<Riddell> knome: also please join us in #ubuntu-release
<Unit193> I just booted my alt from yesterday, it does have nm-applet in panel.
<pleia2> what needs to be more tidy?
<pleia2> I think knome is taking a break
<micahg> knome: should be
<micahg> knome: is it not?
<Riddell> knome: well removed the weird one about ubiquity and moved the nm issue to known issues, the features could do with some marketing love
<Riddell> pleia2: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview#Xubuntu
<Riddell> pleia2: and joins us in #ubuntu-release if you want to take over as release contact
<pleia2> Riddell: yes, I helped write it, what was weird about maybe-ubiquity?
<pleia2> (I can't take over, I just help with marketing)
<Riddell> pleia2: I have no idea what "Using the new installer, maybe-ubiquity" means
<Unit193> Maybe-ubiquity is the new design for selecting if you want to try or install it.
<pleia2> yeah, so I guess "installer" is the wrong word, should be whatever that screen is called
<pleia2> "greeter"?
<pleia2> "Using new maybe-ubiquity greeter"
<Unit193> Bug 943682 hits too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 943682 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "gtk3 draws black backgrounds with unico themes" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/943682
<knome> pleia2, are you going to publish the beta1 announcement as soon as it's out?
<pleia2> knome: that's the plan
<knome> pleia2, okay, great, and thanks for helping out
 * knome 's head and back has been hurting like hell all night
<pleia2> :(
<pleia2> hope you feel better
<knome> well, bit by bit. and just coping. :)
<pleia2> I'm hopped up on sudafed for an ear ache :D
<pleia2> (no infection, doctor just said my head is full of liquid)
<knome> ahamm
<knome> hopefully not urine
<pleia2> :P
<knome> anyway, get well soon
 * knome starts working with more ibuprofein, paracetamol, sugar and eventually alcohol on his pains
 * knome enters the last phase
<knome> another consideration is: how important the alternate image really is?
<knome> madnick, what's up?
<micahg> more customizable
<knome> maybe we should ask for feedback on our site, mailing lists and so
<knome> there's also the minimal cd for customization
<pleia2> a lot of people still use xubuntu on older systems and the big gui installer can be bad for that (I need the alt installer for my old laptop)
<knome> also, if we get to ship the xfce-only alternative installation set, doesn't that somewhat defeat the purpose?
<knome> pleia2, i see. but those low-end systems are pretty bad at running xubuntu too, or?
<pleia2> knome: they do ok
<Unit193> Not too bad.
<pleia2> I also use LVM and RAID on my desktop, need the alt installer for that
<knome> mhmm
<Unit193> pleia2: Also, for earlier ping, is that something that'd be helpful?
<pleia2> Unit193: it might be, a few people have asked for it so if you make a bug I can point them there and others can contribute to the conversation
<knome> pleia2, Unit193: what's it about? (i understood website, but...)
<pleia2> bigger screenshots
<Unit193> More/bigger.
<knome> right...
<Unit193> Bug #944365 this is why I don't file bug reports. :P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 944365 in Xubuntu Website "The website needs more/bigger screenshots" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944365
<knome> i'm not sure if i want lightbox or so, but we could just add a big link covering the screenshot area that links to a screenshot page
<knome> *there* you could have ligtbox
<pleia2> Unit193: thank you :)
<pleia2> I was thinking just a little link below lightbox
<Unit193> Anything that can actually *help*, not hinder!
<knome> pleia2, err, you mean below the slideshow?
<pleia2> knome: yeah
<pleia2> but my brain is full today
<Unit193> Yeah, that's wishlist, when someone gets time to add or poke me for a few, if they need it.
<knome> Unit193, feel free to add those to the bug, for example, and i'll add them when i'll look at the issue generally
<Unit193> May want to wait until a later beta or alpha? (Not that there won't be more important things)
<knome> well, maybe final :P
<pleia2> knome: blog post look ok? I'm getting the official one on fridge and then I'll publish ours
<knome> pleia2, looks good to mee
<knome> -e
 * knome goes to bed
<knome> see you tomorrow, and thanks again pleia2 :)
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/precisebeta1/
<pleia2> and tweeted
<micahg> gah, I still need to update blueman...
<raevol> did any updates to the bluebird theme for gtk3 make it into beta1?
<raevol> err, micahg was that what you were just talking about?
<Unit193> No, that was bluetooth
<raevol> ah
<micahg> raevol: no
<raevol> :[
<GridCube> knome, more news for the site http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/articles/completely_blank_xfce_desktop
<pleia2> GridCube: it mentions xubuntu, but it looks to be an article about xfce
<GridCube> mmm now that you say it, i think you're correct
<GridCube> well this one is about xubuntu. and its in chinese http://software.it168.com/a2012/0206/1307/000001307632.shtml
<GridCube> ah it just rips a softpedia article
<pleia2> ugh, our feed still isn't going to planet
 * pleia2 submits ticket
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-02
<pleia2> feed is now going to the planet "There were some firewall issues with planet.u.c getting to the frontends for xubuntu.  This should be fixed now." :)
<knome> pleia2, huh? it isn't?
<knome> pleia2, oh right, fixed. good.
<knome> Unit193, ding!
<ochosi> btw, the plymouth theme doesn't look very nice atm. it looks like there's a light-sabor hovering beneath the logo (i.e. the blue hue of the glow is borked/incompatible with the new wallpaper)
<ochosi> who's taking care of plymouth atm? madnick?
<mr_pouit> nobody
<ochosi> meh :(
<mr_pouit> I replaced the background picture only
<mr_pouit> noticed that the blue wasn't the same, and told it to knome :p
<ochosi> is it easy to change the blue?
<mr_pouit> so yeah, the progress bar image uses a different blue hue for its border
<ochosi> cause i might be able to tell you what to change it to
<mr_pouit> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/precise/files/head:/lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/
<mr_pouit> probably only a small update for some pngs is needed
<mr_pouit> there's no hardcoded color in the plymouth script, so it's only the png fault afaik
<ochosi> it's really weird that they dropped resize-grips from gtk2 now
<ochosi> right after they accepted the unico-patch to style the resize-grip in gtk3
<ochosi> about plymouth: i'd rather have knome take care of that, i have to fix a few more greybird issues first
<ochosi> and lightdm ideally
<mr_pouit> too many issues were caused by the patch
<ochosi> what patch? the gtk2 resizegrip?
<mr_pouit> (it took them 1 year to notice that, though)
<mr_pouit> yeah
<ochosi> yeah, lol
<ochosi> i mean that seemed clear from day1 tbh
<mr_pouit> probably not to the design team :)
<mr_pouit> - will fix issues with libreoffice (lp: #749986) and splash screens in other softwares (lp: #704105, #734381)
<ochosi> where is the lightdm gtk-theme set again?
<mr_pouit> (from the changelog)
<mr_pouit> in /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf I think
<ochosi> (doesn't seem to be in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf)
<ochosi> ah
<mr_pouit> "In libreoffice, dragging the window with the grip, displays the 'File' menu and blocks the resizing process (see the attached screenshot)."
<ochosi> heh
<mr_pouit> that was awesome
<ochosi> nice one
<ochosi> i was wondering whether we should advertise specific xfwm shortcuts more
<ochosi> like alt+rightclick for window-resize
<ochosi> hm, seems that trying to use lightdm-greeter.css from ambiance doesn't work for our greeter
<ochosi> dunno why though, the class ".lightdm.menu" looks ok in a way
<ochosi> and with ambiance lightdm looks okayish
<ochosi> although not specifically themed
<ochosi> mr_pouit: where can i find unity's lightdm greeter code?
<mr_pouit> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-greeter-team/unity-greeter/trunk/files
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> great, it's all vala
<ochosi> we're using this: /usr/share/lightdm-gtk-greeter/greeter.ui, right?
<Unit193> knome: Yeeeees?
<G__81> hi knome 
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yes
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, good to know. btw, i just fixed the tab issue
<mr_pouit> \\o
<ochosi> o//
<knome> G__81, hey
<knome> mr_pouit, damn it, yeah, i must fix that...
<mr_pouit> don't worry, the xubuntu pl will whip you so that you don't forget
<mr_pouit> uh, no, wait
<knome> :P
<knome> skaet, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS seems to raise some confusion. do you think that page could in any case say anything about the derivatives?
<knome> mr_pouit, do you have any idea if transparent png's work?
<knome> mr_pouit, re: plymouth
<skaet> knome,  its referencing Kubuntu,  but using the term "editions" - is that the source of the confusion?
<knome> skaet, that too, probably, but generally not listing the derivative/flavor/whatever lts periods
<skaet> How about "The Ubuntu project will decide which flavors will be LTS and support duration for each, early in the LTS development cycle."
<knome> skaet, and a link to a page that lists those durations?
<knome> skaet, or just list those durations?
<Unit193> knome: I see, thank you!
<knome> skaet, i mean, it would be ok even in the very bottom of the page...
<knome> Unit193, ;)
<knome> Unit193, np
<skaet> knome,  problem is that this is a general page,  not just one for this release.   The durations change based on project.    Where the durations should be expressed is:
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseManifest
<skaet> which is still missing your signoff.... that I've got the details there correct.  ;)
<knome> skaet, i see. but i can also see why it's confusing for somebody to not have that list...
<knome> skaet, i don't understand what's "ship-live" ?:)
<knome> skaet, and why do we have "desktop" and nobody else does?
<skaet> rather not create another page - when the ReleaseManifest is already there,  and an established part of our infrastructure.  :)
<knome> mr_pouit, HALP!
<knome> skaet, yeah. maybe just link to that and take care of updating every release :)
<skaet> knome,  those are the seeds, and I cut/pasted from the last version - they may not be accurate anymore,  and if so,  should be fixed.  :)
<knome> ok... in that case... mr_pouit: MORE HALP!
<skaet> lol,  :)
<skaet> hmmm..... what also might be useful,  is to put onto the Release Schedule,  which of the point releases you'll be participating in.     Which would illustrate the expectations as well.    ie. does it make sense for you to participate in 12.04.1 if so,  lets add a Xubuntu 12.04.1 to the Release Schedule.... etc.  thoughts?
<skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule - scroll down past the release date...
<knome> yep. i'll have to check that with mr_pouit, too.
<knome> (i hope he's getting enough highlights!)
<skaet> :)   let me know what you think might work for you,  and we can talk with the other flavors that are LTS  as well. 
<knome> i can see how it'd help if the project leader was a more technical person ;)
<knome> sure, thanks
<Unit193> Hmmmm..... Seems all are set as 18M duration, while some thought they were just doing a normal release.
<skaet> knome,  added some wording changes to the LTS page.   Still need to figure out how to make explicit ref to the manifest in such a way it won't get stale,  but problem for another day.  :)
<knome> yup :) thanks
<knome> bbl ->
<G__81> hi knome i was the one who sent the request of joining the xubuntu team today 
<G__81> in Launchpad
<knome> G__81, yeah, i figured out. :)
<G__81> knome, how ? :)
<knome> G__81, one of the team leader secrets :P
<G__81> does LP have my nick ? i mean is it updated. i dont remember 
<knome> anyway, as said in the message, we don't usually give out team memberships in LP right away
<knome> (unless there is a specific reason, like needing to be part of the team to access something)
<knome> G__81, is there something specific you'd like to work on?
<G__81> yeah 
<G__81> knome, let me introduce myself
<knome> sure :)
<G__81> I have been contributing to open source projects and have been using Linux for many years. I have been a fedora contributor maintain couple of packages and i  am an active contributor to quagga (open source routing daemon) and also sent 2-3 patches to kernel and UML
<G__81> i dont know anything about Ubuntu Processes. I have not done packaging either 
<knome> right :)
<knome> mr_pouit and micahg are people you want to talk with
<knome> they can help you get started mostly
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted too
<G__81> knome, is packaging the only way ?
<knome> G__81, no, not really, but knowing it at least a bit helps :)
<knome> the xubuntu team doesn't actually write much own code
<knome> we generally speaking just gather stuff and make sure it works well together
<ochosi> this limitation (code-writing) is mostly due to the little amount of manpower
<G__81> hmm ok i get it 
<knome> that too, but also, when we do write code, we try to get most of it upstream :)
<G__81> my question is xfce development is as such slow so what do you guys do every version as such 
<knome> G__81, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/
<knome> G__81, that's our roadmap for the precise release
<knome> there is usually lots of little things to fix...
<G__81> oh ok
<G__81> ok how can i help apart from packaging
<knome> and if you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule, you can see the feature freeze, for example, was already on feb 16 for this cycle
<knome> this basically means there isn't really 6 months to do stuff...
<knome> for this cycle, there is quite little what you can do since we've past most of the freezes
<G__81> oh ok
<knome> a good way to start is to start following the xubuntu-devel mailing list, this IRC channel and just hang around
<knome> getting to know the ubuntu procedures is good too
<knome> and any kind of communication is encouraged
<G__81> yeah i could do that 
<G__81> :)
<knome> you can also help with testing the releases and reporting bugs if you notice them
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<knome> for example, there's no tests done for today, yet, except the upgrade tests
<knome> Unit193 can help you getting started with testing
<Unit193> Charlie-tca is best, and GridCube is another one.
<knome> it's pretty straightforward though, just follow the testcases
<knome> Unit193, sure. but they aren't online nearly as much as you are :)
<G__81> lol
<G__81> Unit 193 ?
<G__81> i dont see it 
<G__81> i see a table 
<knome> G__81, you're referring to the tests?
<G__81> yes
<G__81> no 
<G__81> builds page
<knome> yeah
<knome> on that page, scroll down to "xubuntu"
<G__81> ok 
<knome> there's four rows for all the images
<G__81> yeah
<knome> next to each one there is a column "mandatory"
<knome> well, as you can see, none of those have been done today
<knome> let's say you want to test the desktop i386 image
<knome> you click on that
<G__81> ok...
<knome> and you get a different table, where you can see all the tests that need to be done for the i386 desktop image
<G__81> i see an other table 
<knome> on the left there is an icon with a document and a tool
<knome> if you click that, you'll see what you need to do to be able to pass/fail the test case 
<G__81> oh ok 
<G__81> i see it
<knome> you can report passes/fails after you've logged in
<knome> and there's also the download info link there :)
<knome> if you do testing day-after-day, i recommend using some kind of syncing
<knome> that way, you don't need to download 100% of the iso every day again
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-tools has some easy scripts.
<G__81> how do i do that
<Unit193> Using rsync or zsync.
<G__81> oh ok 
<G__81> i have an other question 
<knome> sure
<G__81> you guys also do packaging right, i see xfce 4.10 is under development and current is 4.8 so whats that you guys package 
<knome> 4.8 is in precise
<ochosi> (with a few patches from 4.9.x)
<G__81> for eg: I maintain the thunar-python bindings in fedora and i dont see any updates there coz it hardly gets updated 
<G__81> for 12.04 also its gonna be 4.8 
<knome> G__81, yes, precise == 12.04
<G__81> yeah so whats that you are gonna package 
<G__81> if i have to package something what would it be ?
<knome> for precise, we won't package nothing at this stage :)
<knome> we get most of xfce stuff from debian
<knome> but we do some changes on top of that, with ubuntu-deltas
<knome> but seriously, mr_pouit is much better in explaining that :)
<G__81> so this release the only way i could get involved is testing is it 
<knome> that, and bug fixes
<knome> most of that's probably artwork-related
<knome> (fighting with GTK3...)
<G__81> i could do bug fixes 
<G__81> i could try rather :)
<knome> again, i have to point you to mr_pouit :)
<knome> or micahg 
<G__81> :)
<G__81> knome, ok nice to know all these 
<G__81> :)
<knome> sure :)
<knome> if you have any other questions... feel free to ask in the channel
 * knome is off for now
<Unit193> Adios knome, catch you Sun/Mon.
<G__81> thanks knome 
<knome> Unit193, hf with no pc :)
<Unit193> :D
<knome> G__81, np :)
<micahg> G__81: 4.10 will go in 12.10
<Unit193> And GTK3 even later. :/
<G__81> yeah micahg i could see it 
<G__81> :)
<G__81> micahg, xfce does not have a method by which i can auto-arrange icons on desktop 
<G__81> is that available in xfce?
<micahg> idk, I thought Thunar handled that
<ochosi> no, xfdesktop handles the desktop
<ochosi> unfortunately it has quite a few shortcomings, because it's practically unmaintained for a while already now
<G__81> is it available ?
<ochosi> if you mean sort-modes then i guess no (but i have to admit that i never use the desktop-icons)
<G__81> ochosi, yeah auto-arrange lets say i delete an icon on desktop then there is a gap formed coz the other icons dont go up automatically to take up the blank space on the desktop right
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> that doesn't work
<G__81> oh ok
<ochosi> the long-term plan is to make the desktop a thunar-extension
<ochosi> so that it would have the same features and behave consistently
<G__81> lxde has that feature 
<ochosi> but that'll be a long way down the road i fear
<G__81> why is xfce devel so slow ?
<ochosi> too little manpower
<ochosi> no paid devs, no company behind it
<G__81> but the good thing is that they have not screwed up the interface unlike gnome
<G__81> oh ok
<G__81> sometimes i get a dialog box which says some keyring blah blah.. 
<G__81> i dont have any clue on why i get it sometimes 
<G__81> any clue on why we get that ?
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-04
<knome> madnick, ?
<knome> madnick, can you answer asap
<madnick> knome: yes
<knome> madnick, great! ochosi needs your help :)
<ochosi> hey madnick :)
<madnick> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> i'm trying to theme lightdm-gtk-greeter with gtk3 css
<ochosi> do you know how to find out the correct classes?
 * knome goes setting up 2-step verification for google accts
<ochosi> (i tried according to http://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/3.3/GtkCssProvider.html example 24)
<madnick> I am acctually nore sure
<madnick> not*
<ochosi> according to the glade file, the gtkwindow id is "login_window"
<madnick> i see
<ochosi> looking at the gtk3.3 doc the suggested syntax to match it would be "GtkWindow#login_window"
<ochosi> but that doesn't work
<madnick> I have never acctually used this feature
<ochosi> :(
<ochosi> dunno who else i could ask
<ochosi> i'm also mostly guessing
<madnick> There is a project called something
<madnick> that project that unity desktop uses
<madnick> they have an irc channel you can ask about lightdm aswell
<madnick> pandora? hm, something "pan" i think
<ochosi> hm, ok, i'll try to find that then
<madnick> I am really sorry I cannot be of more help
<ochosi> i guess there's no other way to theme the default greeter
<madnick> not in a major way 
<ochosi> well, i mostly want a dark theme for it
<ochosi> and a few widgets seem broken
<ochosi> like the userlist
<ochosi> madnick: can't find it here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<ochosi> at least nothing with "pan"
<knome> !alis
<ubottu> alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" for help and ask any questions about it in #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu* or /msg alis list *http*
<madnick> hm
<madnick> wait
<madnick> sorry i cant find it either :\
<GridCube> pleia2, knome http://xubuntu.org/news/precisebeta1/ here where it says >nm-connection-manager, should say nm-connection-editor
<knome> GridCube, fixed
<knome> GridCube, btw, i just added you to the xubuntu-team @ LP
<knome> madnick, do you think you could fic the fsck-text for precise in the current plymouth theme?
<GridCube> :3 thanks
<knome> madnick, also, would transparent PNG's work for the indicator, or do you need a non-transparent one?
<GridCube> knome, are we going to use madnick's ligthdm engine for login? or the current oldskull one?
<knome> current for precise
<GridCube> mmkay
<knome> we're trying to get some improvements into it though
<knome> GridCube, do you think the current testcases are fine? i mean, does it make sense that with desktop, manual partitioning is mandatory, but with alternate it's run-once ?
<knome> GridCube, also, what about wubi? do we have anybody to even test that?
<madnick> knome: transparent should work
<knome> madnick, okay, thanks. i'll provide you a new throbber sometime soon, if that's okay?
<madnick> I will try to get on the fsck-text, i have a vauge memory of already fixing that, but i will see
<knome> thanks
<madnick> okay sounds good
<knome> i think with that, plymouth is almost optimal
<GridCube> knome, i haven't done many desktops installs, but i find it rather silly to force manual partitioning on desktop
<knome> i mean yeah, the throbber could be circular, but yeah...
<GridCube> desktop is for users trying a new desktop, moving from windows to linux, so, forcing them to do high level stuff its silly
<knome> GridCube, so that could be run-once? :)
<knome> GridCube, well, we aren't forcing. it's just an option, and some want that
<knome> GridCube, so what about wubi?
<madnick> well, ill get back to you tomorrow, i shall get some much needed sleep :) Poke me if I seem afk, I mostly have IRC open 
<knome> madnick, okay, i will. thanks :)
<knome> GridCube, i'm generally trying to make the tests doable with current manpower
<GridCube> yes, i usually do the autoresize and whole disk, not much about manual, in my tests
<knome> GridCube, and trying to direct extra manpower to most useful tests first
<GridCube> because i want to know if it doesnt mess things up
<GridCube> if thats what youre asking
<knome> mmh. what about wubi?
<knome> (still asking the same question :P)
<GridCube> can't do wubi tests
<knome> do we have anybody to even do that?
<GridCube> no idea
<knome> have you seen any wubi test for xubuntu been done ever?
<knome> skaet, you there?
<GridCube> not that i know off, but a friend of mine installed 11.10 with wubi a few weeks ago
<knome> yeah, i see
<GridCube> no problems on her end
<ochosi> knome: just to be sure, you'll take care of plymouth?
<knome> ochosi, i will
<ochosi> knome: ok good, then i can remove that from my list
<knome> :)
 * knome just ate pasta with naga jolokia, again :)
<ochosi> greybird's gtk3 is finally bug-free again in precise
<knome> love it
<ochosi> no clue what naga jolokia is
<knome> chili
<ochosi> but i gotta vacuum the living room now
<knome> 2x hotter than habanero
<ochosi> mm :)
<GridCube> ochosi, question, its possible to make greybird borders at least 2px, 1px its just not working for so many people
<knome> GridCube, that's why there's the resize-grip :)
<knome> and we should really promote shortcuts like alt+right-click-drag
<GridCube> ooooo
<GridCube> i've never heard of that one
<knome> hahah, yeah
<GridCube> D:
<knome> that's why we should promote
<GridCube> THATS AWESOME
<knome> yup, no worry of 1px border...
<ochosi> GridCube: usually telling the people about the shortcut is even better than thicker window-borders
<ochosi> but yeah, i know, some people have also been moaning about it on the forums
<knome> :)
<ochosi> personally i think it's ok that you can resize xfwm easily in the top corners
<GridCube> this is something that should go to a faq
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> something like the shortcuts-overlay in unity could also be nice for xubuntu
<knome> GridCube, let's say we're planning a whole article on it and the other shortcuts :P
<GridCube> good
<Marcin_> hi
<pleia2> ochosi: did you get my email re: artwork page to review?
<astraljava> knome: others: I created an initial version of -live. You can find it @ https://code.launchpad.net/~astraljava/+junk/xubuntu-live, because I'm not a part of ~xubuntu-dev.
<astraljava> Note that this is just a rename of everything Ubuntu Studio so far, so changes will happen largely, still.
<astraljava> But check it out, point out bugs etc.
<astraljava> And whenever you feel like it, create a project under your team, and merge my branch to that.
<knome> astraljava, mmh, need to look at that. i was thinking that maybe we want to postpone until P+1
<knome> astraljava, what do you think?
<knome> astraljava, i mean, rather wait now, and push it as soon as possible in the Q cycle, then allow people to test it and see if there are problems
<knome> astraljava, and, now you are a member of xubuntu-team
<astraljava> knome: I don't really have an opinion. Whatever you want to do about it.
<astraljava> knome: Ok, thanks. I can register the project later, and register the branch for that project, then.
<astraljava> I'll be sleeping now, gotta wake up at 5:30 tomorrow.
<ScottL> can someone help me with some bash magic?
<ScottL> i want to install a default settings file for JACK for new installs, but if the file exists (i.e. the use is installing ubuntustudio-default-settings and already has settings) i don't want it to install
<GridCube> ScottL, :P wouldnt #bash be like the best place to ask?, just sayan
<chelz> sounds like a packaging thing
<micahg> ScottL: you don't need bash magic, but a postinst that installs it on install only
<ScottL> micahg, correct, that's what i really meant, sorry for the confusion
<ScottL> micahg, would this be a good example to use?  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/xubuntu-default-settings/precise/view/head:/debian/xubuntu-default-settings.postinst
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-25
<len-1304> Don't know if this is a known bug, but the sudoku game included on todays 13.04 daily ISO won't run.
<len-1304> NotImplementedError: Setting properties of type 'GdkEventMask' is not implemented
<len-1304> Wrong python version?
<len-1304> install time
<len-dt> The slide show Network page needs to be updated, It says quantal and 12.10.
<bluesabre> The slideshow graphics are usually taken care of shortly before artwork freeze
<len-dt> no problem then. I will bug the gnome-sudoku after I finish installing.
<bluesabre> thanks!
<len-dt> gnome-sudoku bug #1132601
<ubottu> bug 1132601 in gnome-games (Ubuntu) "gnome-sudoku won't start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132601
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-26
<pleia2> knome: where are we with getting those screenshots on the site? :)
<knome> pleia2, don't push it! :P
<pleia2> <3 <3
<knome> getting there some day
<pleia2> so I'll definitely be around for our sprint on Sunday, double-booke it with some online work stuffs I'll need to be paying attention to my computer for
<knome> great!
<bluesabre_> cool, so we'll have some updated 12.10 screenshots on the site in May?  :D
<pleia2> lol
<knome> bluesabre_, that's the optimal estimate
<bluesabre_> lol
<pleia2> oh right, this is the part where I forget to tell people I'm speaking on the Ubuntu UK podcast tomorrow about Xubuntu
<ochosi> cool
<pleia2> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
<pleia2> at 19:30 UTC tomorrow
<pleia2> hm, actually, looks like 20:30 UTC
<knome> :)
<pleia2> but I'm recording at 19:30 ;)
<GridCube> pleia2, :D can i pm you?
<pleia2> GridCube: sure
<GridCube> :) 
<bluesabre> pleia2: congrats!
<pleia2> thanks, I hope to not embarrass us too much :)
<pleia2> expanding the iso, bringing back some dropped apps and language packs, doing lots of bug fixes, that's pretty much it for this cycle right? should I mention new catfish?
<ochosi> pleia2: why would you do that? don't you like us anymore?
<pleia2> haha
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> nothing all-too exciting in the artwork department
<ochosi> apart from tons of work on the icon-theme
<ochosi> but ppl prolly won't notice that too much, not sure
<knome> pleia2, as we discussed in uds, it's probably a maintaining release now, getting stuff ready for the next LTS
<pleia2> knome: yeah, that's what I figured
<bluesabre> knome: about abiword and gnumeric...
<knome> bluesabre, yes?
<bluesabre> we've got a development version of abiword in the raring repos (2.9.2), so theoretically this is not stable.  It's also not the latest development version (2.9.4)
<knome> yes?
<bluesabre> gnumeric in the repos is v1.10, but 1.12 came out in december
<ochosi> meh, i hate the whole abiword random snapshot policy...
<bluesabre> why old packages (particularly for abiword's devel version)
<knome> :P
<ochosi> we should really talk to ppl about that
<knome> bluesabre, i've no problem if we upgrade to latest
<bluesabre> I haven't tested them, just noticed version numbers
<bluesabre> of particular interest, gnumeric 1.12 is actually using gtk3
<ochosi> i've been wondering recently whether we want something like plank (a very simplistic dock) instead of the xfce launcher panel at the bottom...
<GridCube> i like the panel myself
<ochosi> i've somehow started to like the mix of launcher/window-buttons
<knome> hmm, i found a G+ community for Xubuntu, seems like it's not the one we're running
<pleia2> we run a page, not a community
<knome> aha
<pleia2> communities are a new thing, I dunno anything about them :)
<knome> should we take control of the community as well?
<GridCube> i was thinking the other day that it would be nice if we had a sort of "prettifier configuration section" or a better name for it, some configuration program that asks you what kind of panel configuration you would like, if you want to add desktop widgets, like screenlets or what not, if you want to add or remove items from the defaults panels, dunno, for some reason doesnt sound so far fetched to me
<knome> if they are a new thing, why does the community have our old logo?
<pleia2> knome: our old logo is older than all of G+ :P
<pleia2> people just do that
<GridCube> because people use the old logo all the time, the one that looks like a mouse on a wheel... the one from xubuntu 7.10...
<knome> GridCube, no, that's not it
<knome> i seriously don't get G+
<GridCube> i rarely use it, even more rarely that fb, and i use gmail all the time
<bluesabre> https://plus.google.com/communities/108369189560969273265
<bluesabre> I use g+ primarily
<bluesabre> mainly because my real life friends are boring
<knome> boo for them
<bluesabre> and the g+ discussions and posts are interesting
<pleia2> there, I gone told them to use the right one
<GridCube> hehehe
<knome> can you also tell them to give you admin rights?
<knome> :P
<pleia2> maybe
<pleia2> sometimes they just give it to me because "omg pleia2!"
<knome> boo, i hate this thing already
<GridCube> the oldest post is by a "bill carson"
<knome> social networking-- :<
<GridCube> this is the new era of human relationships mr k
<knome> i don't like it
<knome> besides i created a g+ account once already ;)
<knome> didn't like it then either
<pleia2> too high bandwidth for me, and locked into their stupid app
<GridCube> appÂ¿
<pleia2> twitter is light and I can run it in their app, or with their api on bitlbee for irssi, on a dead badger
<knome> seriously, then only thing i can see G+ offering for me is the hangouts
<knome> and even they have the stupid 10-person limit
<ochosi> we're not going to need much more atm
<pleia2> we don't even have 10 project members :P
<knome> that's not my target of criticism :P
<knome> i can see it being a problem with the UDS hangouts
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I am thinking the 10 will be like the "fishbowl" and the rest are just misc audience
<GridCube> you can stream a hangout and let people join and leave
<knome> and there's a possibility that the 10 slots go to the same people all over again and people who "think differently" are probably not going to get slots
<GridCube> its done all the times in the youtubes
<pleia2> knome: I do worry about that
<knome> Unit193, tell us more about mumble
<knome> i can also see why people who think differently wouldn't *want* the slots
<pleia2> bleh, the only thing I hate more than video is phone
<pleia2> that has even fewer social cues, I don't know how to talk on the phone
<pleia2> or mumble
<knome> if i don't have IRC, i'd really want to go straight to IRL
<knome> so i'm getting these "justin bieber has a new tattoo" messages on G+, is this why you all are in there?
<pleia2> lol
<bluesabre> knome, yes
<bluesabre> thats exactly why
<knome> bluesabre, ah, i get it...
<pleia2> you can follow pleia2 to see me grumping at jono about uds
<pleia2> fun times
<knome> lol
<Unit193> knome: Audio only as far as I know, and you can technically stream it with icecast.
<knome> aha, right
<knome> skype with video conference needs one of the participants to have skype premium
<knome> ...or skype linux
<Unit193> I have skype for linux.
<knome> REALLY?
<knome> woot
<GridCube> i do too
<pleia2> I am using skype tomorrow for the ubuntu-uk podcast
<knome> ochosi, i'm probably deactivating my account before we get to test the hangout.
<pleia2> haha
<ochosi> knome: aren't you on fb too?
<knome> ochosi, i ain't
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> my bad
<knome> ochosi, if there's somebody by my name, let's kick him in the nuts.
<knome> or her in the... non-nuts
<knome> there's no other person by my name in the whole world, so if there is one by name in fb, it's an impersonator
<bluesabre> says he owns digitoucan
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> :P
<knome> ffuu
<knome> i'm off G+
<knome> i left it enabled for sp.org if somebody else on the domain *cough* ochosi *cough* wants to use it
<ochosi> i'm on g+ anyway
<knome> i know
<knome> but if you want to create another account
<knome> or something
<Unit193> If you can't use the Ubuntu icecast server and want to, I have a setup that can be used.
<knome> is there some -cast for video?
<Unit193> Icecast can do it, if the source supports it.
<bluesabre> pretty sure parole is the only gtk application that does not have make warnings
<Unit193> G+ has it built in with youtube, no?
<knome> bluesabre, it probably does when i start poking at it ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Try building with clang. :D
<bluesabre> clang?
<knome> Unit193, how would the server go with streaming several video streams?
<Unit193> knome: Shouldn't have issues, never tested it.
<knome> Unit193, i mean, would all participants need to open several streams or can it glue them together?
<knome> or handle them otherwise
<Unit193> It doesn't process, it just streams.
<bluesabre> sounds iffy
<knome> bluesabre, can parole even handle single streams atm?
<bluesabre> technically
<bluesabre> I think
<bluesabre> maybe
<bluesabre> oh, looks like gnumeric 1.12 is in raring, just the ubuntu packages page is wrong http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/allpackages
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-27
<bluesabre> aha, gnumeric 1.12 is in raring-proposed
<ochosi> knome: guess it would be good to have a meeting before the freezes start...
<ochosi> we should prolly make a list of bugs that we wanna get fixed before
<ochosi> and then go through them at the meeting and try to assign them
<knome> ochosi, remember, we have the sprint coming up on 3rd
<ochosi> right, it's just that that'll be hard for me to make
<ochosi> but anyway, i'll try to do my share asap
<ochosi> (update lightdm-gtk-greeter)
<knome> sure
<ochosi> what i'd need is someone who bumps the icon- and gtk-themes to the latest version
<ochosi> (in R)
<eduardo> Hello!
<Unit193> Good bye!
<bluesabre> Going to do a catfish 0.6.1 release soon, has anybody found any additional bugs or "quirks"?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-28
<ochosi> bluesabre: not what you asked exactly, but nope :)
<micahg> bluesabre: are you interested in the packaging for catfish as well or just upstream?
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<micahg> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> do we still ship the unico-engine by default?
<micahg> idr
<ochosi> if so, we can drop it
<ochosi> we got rid of that dependency in all our themes now
<ochosi> (but the themes need an update)
<micahg> ochosi: nope, not on the iimage
<ochosi> (icons plus gtk)
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> interesting
<ochosi> wondering how bluebird looked out-of-the-box then :)
<micahg> hrm, yes it is, seeded-in-ubuntu is lying
<micahg> or my apt-cache is old
 * micahg wonders why seeded-in-ubuntu is lying
<micahg> ah, I think we need a meta update
<ochosi> ok
<micahg> no, the task generator seems wrong...
<ochosi> in that case (if i have two wishes free) please update xubuntu-artwork (as mr_pouit doesn't seem to be around atm) and drop unico
<ochosi> (if you have time that is)
<micahg> it's shimmer-themes with the recommends
<micahg> and unfortunately, I don't have the time tonight
<ochosi> doesn't have to be tonight
<ochosi> any time soon is good enough
<ochosi> in fact, it'd be best for me if we set a date
<micahg> just drop the recommends or are there changes in the branch?
<ochosi> then i can try to get stuff into shape
<micahg> feature freeze is Mar 7, that's the deadline for getting stuff in shape
<ochosi> i know, but preferrably i'd have some time after uploading _and_ before the freeze
<ochosi> at least a little
<micahg> well, if it's just dropping the recommends, I can do that now
<micahg> if it's more, I have to wait
<ochosi> that'd be a good start
<GridCube> bluesabre, :/ i know this might be too late, but i still dont understand how does catfish is meant to work
<micahg> ochosi: will that break anything without theme updates?
<GridCube> im using 12.10 now and doing a search for *.mp3 still resulted on nothing :/
<ochosi> micahg: it'll break bluebird, but it'll be fixed after the theme-update
<micahg> ochosi: I'd prefer to do them together to force the upgrade with a breaks
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> fine too
<micahg> so, maybe tomorrow or Sunday
<ochosi> it's not like we need those few kb we gain from dropping unico
<ochosi> micahg: but anyway, if we could arrange that update, that'd be good
<ochosi> i'm somewhat afraid mr_pouit won't return in time
<bluesabre> hey gridcube
<bluesabre> just search for mp3
<ochosi> GridCube ^
<ochosi> ;)
<bluesabre> I think I broke wildcards
<GridCube> oh
<bluesabre> I'll fix that too
<GridCube> well look at that
<bluesabre> :)
 * micahg is waiting for bluesabre to answer his question
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> missed that!
<bluesabre> micahg, yeah, definitely interested in getting catfish packaged
<bluesabre> though, I'll be doing a point release tomorrow
<micahg> bluesabre: I was wondering about you wanting to do the packaging or not
<bluesabre> yes, if at all possible
<ochosi> k folks, i'm off for tonight
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<ochosi> micahg: hope we can settle this somehow tomorrow or on the weekend
<ochosi> micahg: you can always ping me, i'll read it in the backlog the latest ;)
<bluesabre> micahg, is there something I should read up on, or what would I have to do?
<micahg> bluesabre: so, are you familiar enough to upload a version to mentors.debian.net>
<bluesabre> not yet, but I can look into doing that
<bluesabre> I haven't done much packaging at this point
<bluesabre> k, looks like they've got a bunch of introductory info on that page
<bluesabre> micahg, so should I ping you again once I've got it on there?
<micahg> bluesabre: well, if you think you can get it up there, sure
<bluesabre> I think I should be able to figure it out
 * pleia2 works on sending ALL THE EMAILS
<bluesabre> GridCube, just pushed complete wildcard support into lp:catfish-search if you're interested in trying it out
<ochosi> knome: so now it's officially out there. the proposal for rolling release... https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-February/036537.html
<knome> ochosi, atm, i don't have a stance really.
<knome> micahg, instant reaction?
<micahg> we've been discussing in MOTU
<micahg> it sucks for flavours who value intermediate releases to have their latest stack shippable and receive security support
<micahg> unless we think our user base is ready for rolling release
<knome> why wouldn't they?
<micahg> constant updates, software changing out from under them
<knome> that happens already
<knome> i'm not sure if there's anything else than xfce that might affect our users in a possibly negative way
<micahg> that doesn't happen save for Firefox/CHromium and Thunderbird (this one is down to ~1 massive change per year)
<knome> no, but i can't see people specifically wanting to stick with old versions, and i believe those are quite widespread anyway (so they'll receive bug fixes in a relatively quick manner)
<knome> if they want maximum stability, they should choose LTS anyway
<micahg> our current stable release policy is no UI or feature changes save for very few exceptions
<knome> mmh
<ochosi> yeah, i guess the UI changes are the more critical
<ochosi> otoh it means we can also fix things on the go
<ochosi> which is nicer than having to go through a painful backporting process
<ochosi> (i assume there won't be drastic theme changes)
<knome> probably not, but we haven't had those now either
<GridCube> are you talking about the rolling release model proposal?
<knome> yes
<GridCube> i dont know much about that, but i do wonder, how are iso's managed then? i mean, for example, now if i download xubuntu 12.10, i dont have to run that many updates to get it up to date, but if only lts iso's exist... then i have to run a gazillion updates the first time i install the system?
<micahg> GridCube: you can grab a daily snapshot
<GridCube> oh... they will still exist? 
<GridCube> i see
<GridCube> well then nevermind
<skellat> GridCube: That would sound about right
<GridCube> :/
<skellat> This much change this quickly is worrisome
<GridCube> nah
<knome> GridCube, yes it is.
<knome> i'm already writing another blog article jono won't like.
<skellat> In the past 48 hours, we've had how many earth-shattering kabooms drop on us?
<GridCube> 1?
<skellat> At least 2.  The shift in UDS format plus this new proposal for shifting to rolling releases.
<knome> GridCube, online UDS only, discussiona bout rolling releases
<GridCube> yes, but thats a discussion, not a fact
<GridCube> there is no "bomb" on a proposal to discuss something
<GridCube> dont overreact to something that has not even been made yet
<skellat> The way the proposal was put forward on rolling releases, it looks like that that is why we're having the UDS March session
<knome> i'm 99% certain it will roll out as "canonical will switch to rolling releases, you had the possibility to comment"
<knome> GridCube, please don't shut your eyes from how things have been rolled out before
<skellat> There's an UbuntuOnAir tomorrow that's going to lay out the proposal in more detail as it is
<GridCube> knome, yes :) i understand you, but again remember that you ARE the leader for xubuntu, and that xubuntu IS a huge derivative of ubuntu. that many people care and use and like. You represent us all. 
<knome> GridCube, ...yes?
<GridCube> thats why i ask you politely to not overreact
<micahg> GridCube: no, this is a bombshell in the whole way that Canonical has gone about it, time will tell if there's any real community input accepted here
<GridCube> okay
<GridCube> you are the more experienced people here
<knome> i don't think everybody is overreacting here. if you had seen the discussion on #ubuntu-release yesterday, you'd know there are people who are even more pessimistic about this
<GridCube> i wont meddle in things i don't understand and will just hope for the best
<knome> we all hope for the best, but we need to be prepared for the worst
<GridCube> knome, :) agreed
<knome> the history has taught us things will most probably not roll out as we wish
 * micahg notes to read backscroll in -release
<pleia2> micahg: can't do that until beer-o-clock
<knome> micahg, hint: a release team member with a kubuntu hat as well.
 * micahg is probably already aware :)
<knome> yeah, that's not a surprise
<knome> not to say i don't agree with him
<knome> not sure how i go with the blog article, but i hope to get it out as soon as possible, and might ask for some input from you (pleia2+micahg) and him
<knome> and why not others who probably think alike.
<knome> anyway, need to be going now
<knome> quality time with wife started 15mins ago
<knome> see you!
<skellat> As seen over in #ubuntu-release: (12:28:12 PM) Riddell: so is raring really cancelled?
<skellat> knome: I look forward to your bit on the planet.  It looks like I'll be writing too.
 * skellat wanders off to find a drink
 * genii-around ponders 13.06
<knome> skellat, if you happen to post before me, or even if not, please ping me with the url :)
<skellat> knome: Just started writing now.  I'll make sure to drop a link in the channel.
<knome> skellat, ta. i started writing today as well, but it usually takes me longer than i want to finish off articles, because i don't want to drop out half-thought articles
<skellat> knome: Take a look at this new bit that just popped up too: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/release-r-monthly-snapshots
<knome> skellat, yup. that looks like we're moving towards a rolling release, definitely.
<knome> want to cover the uds issue first, though naturally there will be *some* discussion about the rolling release as well
<skellat> From the blueprints that are registered so far, it looks like UDS is mostly going to be talking about rolling release. 
<knome> yes, that's evitable
<skellat> knome: Here ya go: http://erielookingproductions.info/ubuntu/2013/02/30-paradigm-shifting-without-a-clutch
 * skellat wanders off to do housework
<Unit193> Should be on planet too.
<knome> skellat, ta
<micahg> skellat: hrm, I wanted to do Xubuntu for arm, but couldn't get a kernel for my board :(
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-01
<pleia2> knome: if they really do away with 13.04, ugh, I don't know what we'll do about a lot of things
<pleia2> was just thinking of those articles we're writing
<pleia2> (and in general I keep thinking about things like testing and other things that are so uncertain right now)
<pleia2> spent time making all these plans and now :(
<knome> yeah, i know
<pleia2> honestly it kind of makes me want to just give up until they figure out what they're doing
<pleia2> and I hate feeling like that
<Unit193> Aren't they supposed to tell everyone what's going on next week?
<pleia2> everyone who can take off of work with a week notice will be discussing it, yet
<knome> that's the worst thing
<pleia2> s/yet/yes
<knome> i don't think there's much to "discuss", tbh
<Unit193> ^
<Unit193> That's where they tell you what's going on.
<knome> that's how the communication has gone before from canonical's side
<drc> Cononical is a great believer in the First Vatican Council :(
<knome> i have zero expectations that it would be any different this time, unfortunately
<knome> i would love to be wrong, though.
<knome> zequence, heya
<zequence> knome: Hi
<knome> what's up?
<zequence> Just trying to prepare for feature freeze (just in case), and UDS
<zequence> the plans on rolling release seem not very mature yet
<zequence> If they do go through with it, it might be a good idea to influence the process
<zequence> Make sure we get whatever we need out of it
<knome> yeah...
<knome> it's just that the uds comes really quick.
<zequence> It does
<zequence> My main concern is stability. They seem very optimistic about it, but they probably don't care about other desktops than unity and weird multimedia packages
<zequence> I'm not sure how much is custom when it comes to Xubuntu and Kubuntu
<zequence> Is it mostly XFCE imported from Debian?
<zequence> KDE seems to work a lot on their own packages, from what it seems
<zequence> I mean Kubuntu
<knome> kubuntu seems to want to stick to a 6-month release schedule
<zequence> I'm not sure why, though
<knome> that makes most sense to them since that's how often kde releases
<zequence> Yeah, I read about that
<zequence> From what it seemed, they lobbyed for having KDE do their releases on that basis
<knome> mmh
<zequence> I'm thinking that if the community had bigger control of what is released and what is not, that would help stability
<Unit193> Debian didn't have the same version of Xfce last I looked.
<zequence> If something is not very stable, we should be able to block it
<knome> how much ubuntu (the OS) even is based on other stuff any more?
<zequence> Unity relies heavily on Gnome3 still
<knome> they seem to have quite a lot in-house projects
<zequence> I'd also like us to be able to do our own custom releases. It could be possible if we were able to put a freeze on a set of packages that were important for us
<zequence> though, it's onle the ISO itself that is planned
<knome> that doesn't remove the fact that once you've installed the release, you'll get all the rolling updates anyway
<zequence> The updates are still rolling. I haven't figured out their plan yet, really
<knome> well, mpt proposed that the rolling release should be for developers and testers only... ugh
<zequence> Well, one could disable all but security updates. And if we are given the chance to veto the release of those packages that we think are important, we can keep the rolling updates stable too
<knome> that doesn't help the fact that developers still have a moving target!
<zequence> If a flavor can't control the part of the rolling release that is specific to that flavor, then there's no flavor version of the rolling release. Unless one considers it strictly a dev release
<zequence> From Ubuntu Studio point of view, with a good QA system, zoning in on the important packages, and having the power to stop bad releases of those packages, it would not be too much work to ensure a decent release
<zequence> knome: We do depend on a stable XFCE too, of course :=
<zequence> :)*
<knome> yeah
<knome> but the problem is that we can't freeze many things in the archive
<knome> eg. we will have to go with the kernels ubuntu are having
<knome> or we enter the lowest level of maintaining hell
<zequence> I'm relying on UKT to ensure reliable kernels. Not sure if their routine would change because of a rolling release
<zequence> I'd assume it would
<knome> probably affects any and every team.
<zequence> Actually, it would make sense for the kernel team to keep two kernel repos. 
<zequence> One for new version kernels, since they aren't all that reliable in the beginning
<knome> i'm not sure if it's even the kernel team that decides about that
<Len-nb> zequence, low latency only arrives when you want it to.
<zequence> Yes, we do have control of linux-lowlatency
<zequence> So, I could basically not have a new version released, if I didn't want to. But that's a special case
<Len-nb> Ya.
<Len-nb> Right now two or three years is a long time in audio land
<Len-nb> development is moving tooo fast 
<zequence> Right now, I'm not having anything to do with the development release -lowlatency though
<Len-nb> It is worth while upgrading beyond LTS even a year down the road ... even 6 months from 12.04 to 12.10 was worth while for some uses.
<zequence> And, if there is to be a rolling release, they can't seriously think that a continuing unfrozen dev release is going to replace stable releases
<zequence> There needs to be some changes
<zequence> i don't see why they can't keep more repos for the rolling release
<zequence> Something similar to how Debian
<zequence> ..does
<zequence> It wouldn't be ok to unreleased kernels, I think. Like linux-3.10-r.c
<zequence> Missing some words there, but you get the drift
<Len-nb> ya.
<Len-nb> It will mean some more diligent trying of proposed stuff
<zequence> Currently the development release doesn't have a -proposed, but having one, or -experimental, or even many such repos would help
<Len-nb> Two people must test any proposed before release? (maybe more?)
<zequence> When it comes to linux-lowlatency, on stable releases, it's enough I do testing
<zequence> But, it's less serious, since it's based on -generic
<zequence> And I don't know how they do their testing
<zequence> I have no idea about other stable release updates
<zequence> knome: What are the main issues you would be facing?
<knome> zequence, re: rolling release?
<zequence> yes
<knome> i haven't gotten my head around that yet
<knome> i'm still angry about the changes in UDS
<zequence> It doesn't help making the community trust Canical anyhow
<knome> no, definitely not.
<knome> and it's not the first time canonical's communication fails 
<zequence> It's unsettling. At the same time, I don't mind, if it only works out well for everyone. Right now, I want to make sure we're in sync with what their planning, and if they go through with a rolling release, I want to make sure the flavors have the control they need in order to continue their work.
<zequence> After all, there's no fixed plan yet, and the idea is really only half-baked
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-02
<skellat> Is there a link anywhere to go back and watch today's Ubuntu On Air talking about the Rolling Release proposal?  I had to be out doing errands.
<Unit193> Is there not a channel on YouTube?
<pleia2> skellat: see ubuntuonair.com
<skellat> Ah, so this would be the link I can come back to later then I take it: http://youtu.be/z04ndWaVfJs
<skellat> Oy.  There's an hour of it talking about rolling release?  Crap.  I'll watch that after I get a good night's sleep.
<pleia2> yeah, looks like they explain it and then do lots of Q&A
<pleia2> (I had work today, and tonight I am going to watch movies, it's been a long week :))
<skellat> I was running errands, had to finally break down and buy a printer, and tend to business
<skellat> Yeah, I'll watch it tomorrow
<skellat> I may very well remark on it in The Burning Circle
<skellat> How badly received is my small bit that showed up on the planet?
<pleia2> I haven't heard anything
<pleia2> lots of opinions floating around right now
<skellat> I know
<skellat> #kubuntu-devel has provided many insights just from watching it
<skellat> But I gotta get back to breaking in that new printer.  Have a good night pleia2...
 * skellat wanders off
<pleia2> good luck
<bluesabre> I've fixed a few things in lp:catfish-search, anybody want to do some light testing to make sure I didn't break anything before I do 0.6.1 release?  :-)
<Len-nb> Whats the ppa again? I reinstalled the OS.
<bluesabre> It's not in the PPA at the moment, since I moved away from quickly, its not packaged
<bluesabre> but you can easily grab it with
<bluesabre> bzr branch lp:catfish-search
<bluesabre> I'm heading to bed
<bluesabre> be back tomorrow
<Len-nb> bluesabre, Seems to work ok. anything I tried. Wild cards don't seem to work on an sftp directory. Ok on the local drive.
<Len-nb> searched for png works on sftp dir *.png doesn't but works local.
<Len-nb> Searched for png in /usr/share/ in both cases
<Len-nb> My mistake, I was searching in two different places, my remote machine is a server, the icons directory appears empty. It was the cups directory I was seeing.
<Len-nb> Wild cards work in both places.
<knome> hrmph, i just had this clear moment and i understood that if ubuntu moves to a rolling release model, they need to support 12.10 to 14.04 updates, or make anybody on 12.10 start using the rolling updates
<knome> hmm, watching the video from the hangout
<knome> why weren't members of edubuntu, ubuntu studio and xubuntu invited to the chat?
<knome> only people from mythtv and kubuntu
<bluesabre> Actually, considering that the kubuntu folks are actually being sponsored by another company, that might not be a bad thing
<zequence> Was anyone invitie
<zequence> ?
<zequence> I was there, but found about it on G+
<knome> bluesabre, no. micah has been talking about that tentatively
<zequence> Didn't think about telling you guys
<knome> i *knew* about the session
<zequence> I let others know on US, but only I attended
<knome> jono just said that some people were invited to join the hangout itself i understood
<knome> zequence, what do you think about the ubuntu sdk?
<zequence> knome: I've tried getting it to work without success a couple of times, so that perhaps tells you a story
<zequence> I think they have some problems in many areas really
<knome> they clearly want people to start using their stuff to keep them on ubuntu by telling them "we can guarantee you your app won't break"
<zequence> I bought some music on ubuntuone over a month ago, and am still waiting for either the music or a refund
<zequence> I'm unable to sync a big folder on ubuntuuone too. Been on it for two days now, trying to upload it, with decent bandwidth
<zequence> I've seen problems with other clients too, on Android for instance
<zequence> If it's going to be like that when they start selling the phone, won't matter how good it looks
<knome> uff
<bluesabre> yeah, ubuntuone has some inherent issues, but not sure if thats what knome means by the ubuntu-sdk
<knome> no, that's not it
<zequence> I wasn't referring to the sdk when talking about ubuntuone
<zequence> I did try to install the sdk, but wasn't able to. And after I finally was, I couldn't get a simple example to work
<zequence> The first sort of "hello world" example they have on developer.ubuntu.com
<zequence> At first look, it looks like they aren't aiming at Java, so that's good
<zequence> From what I understand, the first phone versions will be less convergent, but eventually, it'll be like a PC
<zequence> How much so, I don't know
<zequence> It's the same OS anyway
<zequence> And as long as the user has the freedom to install what they want on the phone, that will be the important thing for me
<knome> phones are going towards being more like pc's anyway
<zequence> Yes, but this one will be more like the actual Ubuntu PC
<bluesabre> knome, I'm curious about why we think a rolling-release model would be harmful to xubuntu?
<knome> bluesabre, you'd have to discuss more with micah
<bluesabre> are there any general details beyond updated packages?
<knome> general detail regarding xubuntu or rolling release+
<bluesabre> I guess more on the xubuntu side.  Everyone seems kind of bummed out about it, but I'm not sure why.
<zequence> Initially, I can understand being disappointed when working for a release for almost half a year, and not being told in advance that it might not be releases
<zequence> released*
<knome> bluesabre, my main concern is the way it's communicated to the community.
<zequence> Also, it seems like the rolling release is intended for developers first, which is not what flavors want
<zequence> Other than Ubuntu, of course
<bluesabre> Right.  But effectively, aren't the non-LTS releases just stable development checkpoints between LTS's?  "If you want a stable release, use LTS"
<knome> bluesabre, i believe that is more true in the ubuntu desktop reality than flavors
<zequence> Definately, yes
<knome> zequence, can you remember if there was anything interesting for the flavors in the last 10 minutes? 
<zequence> Might be slight differences. Edubuntu used Unity. We use XFCE, like Xubuntu and rely on Xubuntu. Kubuntu is the larges group, and are probably least affected by what is happening in Unity
<zequence> knome: I'm not against a rolling release, as long as we get power to influence
<knome> zequence, that's most definitely the first requirement for the change to be succesful from the community point of view
<zequence> We want stability, and for that we need some way of ensuring stability. I'm thinking different layers of repos, and from my point of view, there's no other good way of dealing with it
<Unit193> I'd be alright with it if it is stable enough.  With Unity and Gnome GTK3, they may change other things (indicators, for example) that do end up affecting Xubuntu and Xfce in Ubuntu.
<zequence> Ubuntu needs to be careful with system core libs, anything that can mess up things for others
<zequence> I don't think it's ok for them to release r.c versions of kernels, etc
<zequence> And, I'm pretty sure they won't
<zequence> Not in a "stable" rolling release repo, anyway
<zequence> Then it wouldn't be anything else but a rolling unfrozen development release
<zequence> I mean, if they did
<zequence> Same with xorg related things
<zequence> I'm don't know what would cause most problems, but those are two things that everyone relies on
<zequence> If the system core is always stable, and we have the power to decide over those things that are specific for us, I'd be ok with that
<bluesabre> But doesn't that provide us with an opportunity to maintain and patch our relevant software as well?  I realize that our core development team is small, but I would imagine that there would be some sort of window before big release changes
<zequence> I would like it if we get the chance to smoketest packages, and if there are problems, have them frozen. I don't know what the bar for something like that is now - that it doesn't build, or totally crashes your system?
<knome> zequence, it's been demonstrated before that ubuntu doesn't care too much about flavors breaking even for LTS releases
<bluesabre> heh
<bluesabre> damn messaging indicator
<knome> zequence, based on that, i don't think i can agree with you that ubuntu will be at all careful with packages affecting flavors in the rolling repository
<knome> anyway, i got to take a shower and then leave
<zequence> knome: Depends highly on if they will keep different repos or not. If they consider the rolling release, as is, a true development/expirementation release only, than, yes, I would agree with you
<knome> even if it was considered stable, i couldn't agree.
<zequence> Things are always going to break, but you need the chance to do something about it
<knome> they will only make sure ubuntu (the OS) works, and "try" to notice people enough in advance for them to fix/change their things before they break.
<knome> that's what they're telling you what happens if you use ubuntu sdk.
<knome> if you're not using that, then it's going to be much more random.
<knome> anyway, shower now. will check irc quickly before leaving home.
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> zequence, bluesabre: if you're around later today, i'll happily discuss about this further with you
<knome> ->
<bluesabre> knome, sure.  Not sure when I'll be on today, but I'll keep my account connected :)
<bluesabre> there is a remote possibility that I actually managed to upload a package to the catfish stable ppa
<bluesabre> Ok, it's definitely uploaded, now whether it builds or not is a different story altogether
<bluesabre> and it looks like its a 2-hour wait for next build
<bluesabre> So, guess I'll check that out tonight :)
<amerigena> Here's a question that's been bugging me : I'm (trying) to work with a distro called OS4. Xubuntu based. Have an older version of it installed on this PC.
<amerigena> Between System and Help, on the default menu. there were two separators. Fine.
<amerigena> I used Alacarte, removed one of the separators, and now, at the top of the top-level menu, above Web Browser and Mail Reader, there's an entry for Wine, that I don't want there, and haven't been able to figure out how to get rid of.
<amerigena> I've tried Googling it, have tried editing the default menus in ~/.config/menus and /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus - can't find the solution.
<Unit193> amerigena: 1.  This is the Xubuntu development channel, not support.  2. We don't support anything other than Xubuntu in #xubuntu   3. Your issue is with the files in ~/.local/share/applications/
<Unit193> (IIRC anyway, I had that issue.)
<amerigena> Fair enough.
<amerigena> Worth a try.
<amerigena> Thank you.
<Unit193> Sure, got it?
<amerigena> Nope. Not yet. But I'll get there.
<amerigena> I see a file called alacarte.made.desktop. But opening it just shows references to Xfce-Terminal, not Wine.
<amerigena> That's the problem - can't find any references to Wine.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-03
<len_1304> amerigena, default place for the wine menu is in /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged
<Unit193> len_1304: This is some fluke bug that puts wine at the very top of the applications menu.
<len_1304> That menu stub may get overlaid after the menu stub alacarte creates in ~/.config/menu
<len_1304> Mine is at the bottom.
<len_1304> W comes after S I guess.
<skellat> I've registered a blueprint for UDS-1303: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies
<skellat> knome: I tagged you as approver for this but it is exceedingly general and vague enough so that, if approved for UDS, we can at least formally get some discussion on-record: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies
 * skellat wanders off
<knome> skellat, thanks
<suleyman> Hi. How can I donate Xubuntu?
<knome> suleyman, at the moment, we're not taking donations, but you can direct the money to the xfce project, from which we directly benefit
<suleyman> thank you.
<knome> np
<knome> bbl for the sprint
<pleia2> home!
<knome> woo!
<pleia2> oh right, so sprint time :)
<knome> yeah, it is
<pleia2> I am getting settled in, lunch is on the counter, need to retrieve
<knome> yeah, let's wait for some time to people to appear from darkness
<knome> hmm, the question in which repo where xubuntu-desktop is never occurred to me
<knome> though of course, universe is the natural choice.
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> i think we need to rethink which items we want to work on during the sprint due to the RR-discussion
<knome> oh how it sucks that it's happening SOOOO close to FF.
<pleia2> yeah, I think we should put off some things
<pleia2> no use working on things that are usless if 13.04 never happens
<knome> yup.
<pleia2> alright knome, looks like just you and me for now
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Sprints/2013-03-03-globaljam
<knome> Unit193 is hiding too.
<knome> * Update the "Documentation" section under "Get Involved" 
<pleia2> I have no idea how translations will work without freezes (except every 2 years)
<pleia2> SRU is probably worthwhile if LTS is the only release
<Unit193> >_>
<Unit193> No I'm not here.
<pleia2> hi Unit193!
<knome> yes...
<knome> but i'd probably look at that too after vUDS
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> and re: 13.04 docs, well, if there is no 13.04...
<pleia2> so I don't think we can do much with docs today
<knome> i'll edit the wikipage shortly.
<Unit193> Easier to keep them up than do it like last time.
<pleia2> Unit193: only if it's not a moving target
<Unit193> There is that little bit...
<pleia2> can't very well start writing docs for 14.04 now, over a year away, we won't know what features it'll have
<knome> yeah...
<knome> while i don't want to go too deep in the RR discussion, i have to share this one:
<knome> they say that the 6-month release schedule slows down development because there are so many freezes, but actually the 2-year release interval, it seems that many and again many teams are suffering because the next LTS target is unknown
<knome> re: all libs and for xubuntu, xfce and all that kind of "little" stuff
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> you could argue there's no sense to make an effort to make something work every 6 months, but i think it does make even less sense to make something work "for now"
<knome> ok, wikipage updated.
<knome> are there others we simply want to postpone?
 * pleia2 deep breath and looks
<pleia2> we can work on marketing, website and artwork stuff
<skellat> I need to get back to scripting but, after finishing that bloody hour-long video, Xubuntu and other flavors are left twisting in the breeze due to the RR discussion.  I logged that blueprint that has yet to be approved for UDS-1303 but we've really got nothing to go on.  I remain unsure if there will necessarily be an Ubuntu 13.04 released.
<pleia2> how about testing?
<knome> mm... i wouldn't want to do that
 * pleia2 is trying to avoid more RR discussion this weekend, instead bought herself flowers and is working on Xfce
 * knome looks at the release schedule
<knome> ffst, NOT the precise one!
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> nah, i'd actually really want to postpone the testing stuff after uds
<pleia2> ok
<knome> that would be a lot of wasted time and energy, and not necessarily only mine
<knome> it's already been some if 13.04 cancelled, so...
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> and bluesabre's :<
<knome> i bought myself a good batch of beer too to not try to think the cruel world
<pleia2> not sure where this article thing will land if the magazine doesn't have a 13.04 release to target
<knome> yeah, i thougt about that too
<pleia2> so there will have been a lot of wasted time to go around (including a whole week in copenhagen planning a release that never happens)
<knome> but i decided to get more anxious about it only after UDS
<skellat> pleia2: What sort of flowers did you buy?
 * micahg waves, will brb
<knome> though it was fun to be in copenhagen.
<knome> and it was still beneficial
<pleia2> skellat: a bouquet! http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/8526044856/
<knome> ...and there was some beer too, so definitely not non-fun
<pleia2> beer++
<knome> some of it almost looks like plastic
<knome> the tulip and the green stuff at left front
<pleia2> the flash does goofy things
<pleia2> but they are real :)
<knome> you mean adobe flash?
<pleia2> no
<skellat> The Nexus S has a camera flash?
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> Nexus S camera is actually pretty good, aside from being slow
<knome> do we want to postpone the docs stuff?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i mean, even the (back)port
<pleia2> I think so, I don't want to start in on that and then realize we *will* have a 13.04 and then have two major projects on our hands
<pleia2> if needed SRU can wait until after April
<knome> mmh, right
<knome> so in that case
<maddernick> Hi
<knome> i'd propose a following order
<Unit193> By install http://pastebin.com/KP6r7N98   by vote: http://pastebin.com/R3tTiMRK
 * micahg is here
<knome> 1)  Update the "Documentation" section under "Get Involved" 
<knome> 2)  Add "Products" page under the marketing resources
<knome> 3)  Review and extend flyer content 
<knome> 4)  Create a list of languages we want in the ISO (n most spoken for a starting point) 
<knome> there's also the following items:
<knome> *  Add launchers to the applications menu for Xubuntu.org (+contribute) 
<knome> *  Work on the flyer drafts (artwork)
<knome> micahg, does the launcher thing sound something you'd be willing to go ahead and do?
<pleia2> the flyer stuff seems more like something you do privately and then we talk about later
<pleia2> s/stuff/artwork
<pleia2> we can talk about content :)
 * pleia2 forgets what she wrote
<micahg> where would it go?
<knome> yeah, but if people who want to contribute to the artwork are around, they can do quick drafts and get feedback quickly
<knome> micahg, next to "About Xfce" sounds good to me
<knome> actually
<pleia2> oh right, need to review "About Xubuntu" text too
<maddernick> i just wanna ask if ochosi_ has reviewed the plymouth changes and what he thought, and if he thinks I could request a merge
<pleia2> that was brought up on the list a while back, I said I'd do it
<knome> pleia2, yeah, was just about to say that too
<micahg> knome: sure, we can do that, would like mr_pouit's input to see if he minds first, but I could do that quickly
<knome> the "Xubuntu" tab is actually "Xfce in Debian"
<knome> pleia2, are you on the wikipage to add it or shall i?
<pleia2> go for it
<knome> done
 * mr_pouit stops hiding then
<knome> good good
<knome> ;)=
<mr_pouit> huhu
 * skellat has to disappear to get the last bloody script done for podcast recording tonight but reminds about this blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/+spec/contingencies
<mr_pouit> micahg: I don't mind (I uploaded a new xubuntu-default-settings yesterday, I should have waited then)
<micahg> mr_pouit: it's a quick build, it's not that bad
<knome> i'll simply start working on the "doc on website" stuff now
<knome> just do whatever you like! (:
 * micahg has to go fix his chroots to build against -proposed now
<knome> btw, hai jjfrv8 
 * pleia2 stops goofing off
<mr_pouit> micahg: I'm too lazy to do that, so I wait until it goes out of there if necessary :>
<jjfrv8> Hi, knome 
<pleia2> I wish there was an easier way to have people order stickers from moo.com (cafepress/zazzle like store)
<micahg> mr_pouit: well, I stopped uploading after I was bit by a transition in -proposed (BTW, it's default for newly created chroots)
<knome> pleia2, you mean like pre-designed stuff and users would only need to choose the amount ?
<pleia2> knome: yeah
<pleia2> instead of my current "go to this website, upload this design with the round stickers" method
<knome> yeah
<knome> that sucks
<pleia2> but the quality of stickers on the other sites is meh :(
<pleia2> moo is awesome
<maddernick> Couldnt one make some sort of form-posting "proxy" for moo?
<maddernick> that uploads the image, and then takes you there
<pleia2> not from what I've seen
<pleia2> best I can do is link to http://us.moo.com/products/round-stickers.html
<knome> updated the doc page
 * pleia2 works on some products page text
<pleia2> :)
<mr_pouit> micahg: I don't use stuff from ubuntu-dev-tools to create my chroots anyway (since the last time I used them they installed recommends and I had to file a bug, iceweasel in a chroot is no fun)
<knome> mr_pouit, :>
<maddernick> pleia2: http://us.moo.com/api/
<maddernick> "You can use the API yourself, or provide a UI for your customers to use "
<pleia2> maddernick: ah!
<knome> maddernick, want to deal with that? ;)
<pleia2> maddernick: thanks
<maddernick> knome: i will look into it
<knome> maddernick, like, right now (it doesn't sound like a complex thing)
<maddernick> okay
<knome> thanks
<maddernick> as long as i dont need to sign up :P
<knome> heh
<knome> that would be awkward anyway,.
<knome> -,
<pleia2> I've already ordered a bunch from them so I don't mind using my account for it
<knome> pleia2, i'm pretty sure eventually linking to something doesn't need any account
<knome> but creating something with the api might
<micahg> skellat: I'm very interested in Xubuntu on arm*, I think it would rock on that platform
<pleia2> so what other products do we have besides stickers?
<micahg> unfortunately, all I have is an old 800 mhz arm machine
<pleia2> we'll have flyers
<knome> pleia2, is the case badge issue fixed?
<pleia2> knome: no, haven't had the budget to engage them for another order (same goes for tshirts)
<knome> pleia2, meh. there isn't any possibility to work with them without throwing $100 at them again?
<pleia2> yeah, I could just drop them an email without an order to see if there is anything they can do
<pleia2> I'll do that now
<knome> pleia2, i mean, the quality sucked, one would think they would be willing to do something about it to make you order again
<knome> (especially since you're probably making *others* order from them as well)
<knome> great, thanks
<pleia2> yeah
<micahg> knome: where's the link to contribute?
<knome> micahg, here: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<micahg> knome: which icon and what should the title bw?
<micahg> *be
<maddernick> seems fairly easily done to do this, but yes, they dont seem to have any example keys, which makes this a bit annoying
<knome> that's a good question
<micahg> knome: menu list name and hover over name are required
<knome> "Contribute to Xubuntu" or "Get Involved with Xubuntu"
<knome> which one do you prefer?
<maddernick> Someone will have to use their account for this :|
 * micahg prefers Get Involved
<micahg> but it's too long
<knome> hover description: "Read about the different ways to help the Xubuntu team."
<knome> maybe it could be more inspiring...
<knome> "Read how you can make Xubuntu better!"
<micahg> the contribute string is a good length (shorter than USC which is the largest item in the menu)
<pleia2> ok, email sent
<knome> hooray
<maddernick> pleia2: "Round Stickers, Label Stickers, Holiday Cards, Greeting Cards and Christmas Cards are not currently supported through the API"
<knome> hahah
<knome> well done
 * pleia2 headdesk
<micahg> knome: do you want it below or above About Xfce?
<pleia2> I could offer to send people stickers for free and then revise my decision if I end up getting a billion requests ;)
<knome> i'd say both should go above (since the menu is opening, that makes them "before" it, right?)
<pleia2> and say "or you can make your own like this"
<knome> pleia2, "let pleia2 order you stickers and get them for free or go through the hassle to order them yourself and pay for them" ?
<knome> mm, i'm quite certain you wouldn't get any request
<knome> NOT
<maddernick> Great deal!
<pleia2> with different words that make them feel guilty for asking me :)
<pleia2> and making clear it's limited and stuff
<knome> haha
<micahg> knome: so, between help and about xfce?
<knome> micahg, umm, between "Xubuntu website" -link and "About Xfce"
<micahg> hrm?
<knome> we wanted two items added
<knome> one for the main website, another for the contribute page
<micahg> oh, hrm, missed that, what's the tagline, and title for the other?
<knome> "Xubuntu website" -> "Learn more about Xubuntu on our website."
<knome> pleia2, ^ agree?
<micahg> so, Help, Xubuntu Website, Contribute to Xubuntu, About Xfce, Log Out
<knome> yes
<knome> :)
<pleia2> sure
<mr_pouit> we should name the entry "isdjjkqdsjkqd", because everyone will wonder what it is, click and end up on xubuntu.org
<micahg> link to http://xubuntu.org
<knome> oh pretty please include the closing / :)
<knome> i'll get clinically mad if you don't
<Unit193> Ooooh!  I like this idea!
 * micahg wonders what knome would be like clinically mad...
<knome> right.
<knome> i mean *more* clinically mad
<knome> O:)
<micahg> could someone test a built package in a new user (guest account would work) to see if it DTRT in raring?
<knome> somebody running raring?
<mr_pouit> (or simply pick xfce-applications.menu and the desktop file on quantal)
<knome> what about the firefox bookmarks?
<knome> do we have these links there as well?
<micahg> debs here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~micahg/xubuntu/
<micahg> .changes has hashes
<knome> (or can we affect those anyway? i believe it's controlled by ubufox)
<micahg> yeah, we can't change the bookmarks ATM
<knome> yup :(
<knome> hmm...
<knome> they appear in the middle of the categories
<knome> the icons should probably be the xubuntu logo
<micahg> what's the icon name for that
<micahg> oops forgot to add layout as well
 * pleia2 gets sucked into work stuff
<pleia2> bah
 * micahg confesses to having not really played with menus much
<pleia2> openstack now has a new process for signing the CLA, woo
<knome> micahg, lemme see
<micahg> knome: so, if you give me the icon name, I'll rebuild the package
<knome> pleia2, boo
 * micahg fixed the layout
<knome> well the menu icon name is distributor-logo
<knome> (in places/*/, if you need that)
<micahg> knome: thanks, new debs upload
<knome> just a sec
<knome> yeah, works now apart from the icons
<knome> oh wait
<knome> duh
<knome> nvm
<knome> yup, works
<knome> thanks
<knome> bbiab
<mr_pouit> note that XFCE is now a recognized category (iirc)
<knome> hmm
<knome> what's your point
<micahg> so, ok to upload, or should I just push?
<mr_pouit> (in the desktop file, X-XFCE vs. XFCE, but both work anyway)
<micahg> oh, should I change that before upload?
<knome> ok for me to upload
<mr_pouit> micahg: bah, we checked that it's ok with X-XFCE, so no need to change
<micahg> ok
 * micahg updates the GPLv2 link to make lintian happy
<knome> heh
<knome> again, bbiab
<knome> or actually, a bit longer while
<pleia2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xq3alIj7ag0OvxInOF-9goD2I2z8o5z3uS53u5QKXKE/edit#heading=h.1vu8ysbzk5g8 for /products if you want to follow along at home
<pleia2> (it's slow going, I keep getting distracted
<pleia2> )
<knome> sorry for poking :P
<pleia2> :)
<knome> brb.
<pleia2> I forgot about these, they were fun http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7640334336/
<pleia2> now to remember where I got them from :)
<knome> heh
<knome> the blue should go through the edge
<knome> ...as i've said before
<pleia2> ah, zazzle
<pleia2> yeah, I don't think that was possible with zazzle
<knome> BOO
<knome> (not MOO)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> looks like I can probably get them closer to being all blue in the front, but when you turn it around it'll still be white in the back
<knome> that's still suboptimal if they can't guarantee 100% that they hit the center
<knome> and i don't think they can.
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> not with that scale and price
<knome> however, i can get another beer down the throat
<knome> :]
<knome> yummy oak-aged
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> http://www.zazzle.com/cr/design/pt-zazzle_button?dz=3fde4fd5-70c0-4dc1-95cf-2c942e97eaca&clone=true&pending=true&style=round_button&size=1.25&dv=4&view=front_square
<pleia2> not the awesomest of URLs
<knome> no
<knome> meh.
<pleia2> ok, no buttons
<knome> i'm simply not happy about calling that official merchandise
 * pleia2 nods
<maddernick> Thats awesome, cmon, thats like a Star Trek communicator but with this logo
<maddernick> I might order it :P
<knome> feel free to
<knome> but i don't think it's a good idea to get these out in large quantities unless we can be sure about the quality
<maddernick> There must be some way of validating it
<knome> a manufacturer that allows bleed, yes
<pleia2> the quality is fine for what they are ;)
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7640334336/ pretty!
<pleia2> just they do have the white border
<knome> yeah, but you're not a graphic designer by your trade...
<pleia2> truth
<knome> i mean
<knome> those generally look fine
<knome> and if somebody specifically comes asking for buttons, fine, tell them about those
<pleia2> maybe I can put them on the wiki
<knome> and it's ok to use them in events and so on and spread them
<knome> but let's not call them official...
<knome> just something "you can use"
<knome> until we find a manufacturer that allows bleed
<knome> that shouldn't be a problem at all
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> if you sent a design like that (want the white border on the back and side) to any commercial printer that asks you for a "normal" price, they advise you to rethink
<knome> that's how bad it is
<pleia2> knome: thoughts on what else we should add to this products page?
<pleia2> and if it's just this, is it worthwhile yet?
<pleia2> maybe we should wait for flyers...
<knome> yeah, probably not worth it yet
<knome> but it's good we got started with it
<pleia2> next cycle (or whatever, you know) I should be able to start putting some $$ into t-shirt and other tests
<pleia2> I can move this txt into a draft wordpress page so we don't lose it
<knome> yeah, that would be good
<pleia2> k
<knome> do you still have time for stufF?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> we could look at the flyer text or the about dialog
<pleia2> oh yes
<pleia2> where did I put it, did I email it to you or something?
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Flyers
<knome> wise girl
<knome> should we work on that in gdocs?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> will you move it? :)
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> ok, copied over products stuff and saved the draft
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll add a note that case badges are available for ordering later
<knome> from not-elizabeth :P
<pleia2> :)
<knome> re: the ugly url for image
<knome> if it would be possible to link somesubdomain.xubuntu.org to a server you have upload rights to, that would be optimal
<pleia2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WcujR5HnBbu7Lc28ICn6la_EEVEs_vt6NkjoYQSCRps/edit
<knome> then we could have products.xubuntu.org/round-stickers.png or sth
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> and update when we need to
<knome> and add other images
<pleia2> think of working with IS on this kind of makes my head hurt
<knome> i don't think things like that should be uploaded to WP anyway
<knome> i can handle IS
<pleia2> maybe just static.xubuntu.org or something
<pleia2> where we can toss lots of stuff like this, maybe a .txt version of our strategy document too or something
<knome> lol at gdocs bullet
<knome> yeah, sure
<drc> May I make a suggestion on the flyer?
<knome> drc, yes.
<knome> it is totally open for discussion
<pleia2> it's ok to say "this is all wrong" too, I don't know what I'm doing so I won't be offended :)
<drc> It's a flyer...the salient points should be understood at a glance (bullets, points something) Paragrapha (like pleia2 is editing now require <reading>.
 * pleia2 nods
<drc> Think a billboard you see driving down a high spreed road, you have just a few seconds to grab them and convay your message
<drc> At least at the top of the flyer.  Once you have them down to the middle, you can make more complex statements.
<drc> My thoughts anyway :)
<pleia2> I love how I use phrases like "image processing" and "email client" - I am not normal user :)
<knome> as i commented, i don't think it does much difference to mention the video player name
<pleia2> knome: re: parole - because it's not a known product?
<knome> no, not only that
<knome> most people don't care what the player is called
<pleia2> they would if it was VLC ;)
<knome> yeah.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-24
<ganglere> ali1234, just got the thunar crash. any extra information I can provide you?
<ali1234> what were you doing with thunar since you started it, up until the crash?
<ganglere> browsing a samba share
<ali1234> particularly any "unusual" things such as very deep folder structures, very long file names, very large number of files in directory... etc?
<ali1234> what was the very last thing before it crashed?
<ganglere> I hit the x, just as all the other reports
<ganglere> but nothing unusual, just browsed to my media on a nas and watched a show, something I do regularly
<ali1234> hmm... so long file names?
<ali1234> any special characters or anything like that?
<ganglere> No special characters, except for a single space
<ganglere> the path is only 35 characters long
<ali1234> do you use tree view?
<ganglere> shortcuts in the sidebar, detailed list in the main viewer
<ali1234> did yo delete any files recently?
<ali1234> or move them?
<ali1234> (with thunar of course)
<ganglere> no, just got it to crash again though. no output in the command. anyway to get a verbose debug?
<ali1234> if you can reproduce, run it in valgrind please
<ali1234> sudo apt-get install valgrind thunar-dbg libglib2.0-0-0-dbg libgtk-2-0-dbg libgtk-3-0-dbg
<ali1234> should have been libgtk2.0-0-dbg
<ali1234> then killall thunar
<ali1234> then: G_SLICE=always-malloc G_DEBUG=gc-friendly  valgrind -v --tool=memcheck --num-callers=40 --track-origins=yes --log-file=valgrind.log thunar
<ali1234> it will be really slow though
<ganglere> I was just about to say it hadn't loaded yet...
<ali1234> valgrind will log every malloc done by the program, and then every memory access will be checked to make sure it is valid
<ganglere> not sure if I actually reproduced, but I got this output:
<ganglere> (thunar:6634): GLib-CRITICAL **: Source ID 684 was not found when attempting to remove it
<ali1234> i have seen that too, but it doesn't crash
<ali1234> may be related though
<ganglere> didn't seem like it
<ali1234> ==22490==  Uninitialised value was created by a stack allocation
<ali1234> ==22490==    at 0xADFB640: ??? (in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpixman-1.so.0.30.2)
<ali1234> i am seeing a lot of this
<Noskcaj> ali1234, valgrind has a lot of errors on all xfce packages, have you got a folder full of files you can copy from a usb? that's what caused my most recent crash
<ali1234> during copying?
<ali1234> valgrind always produces errors but most of them are harmless or even intentional
<Noskcaj> after copying i clicked the X, then error
<Noskcaj> and ok
<ali1234> hmm got some clues from the USB copy
<Noskcaj> :)
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6984954/
<ali1234> not sure if those are really errors
<ali1234> hmm interesting
<ali1234> that first one... filename is an argument - it does wchar_t *wfilename = g_utf8_to_utf16 (filename, -1, NULL, NULL, NULL); and then returns if this is null
<ali1234> but somehow filename was null later in the function
<ali1234> it never actually nullchecks filename though
<ali1234> and also it only happened one time
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Since light-locker-settings has native packaging, why does it have a debian/patches/ folder?
<ali1234> oh wait, it's all a big ifdef
<ali1234> it never nullchecks filename on !win32
<ali1234> hmm... thumbnailer uses g_list quite a bit
<ali1234> something asked it to thumbnail a file with path = NULL, so that's definitely not right
<ali1234> hmm there we go, fully reproducable
<ali1234> stack
<ali1234> hmm... nope, almost certainly a red herring
<Noskcaj> Another item for U-series, maybe swap from xchat to hexchat (a branch of xchat that is actually maintained)
<Unit193> Right.
<Unit193> ochosi: Of course I've PPA'd latest xfwm4 git head. :P
<Noskcaj> What other 4.11 parts do we want? (other than garcon, libui, and settings)
<zequence> Are you having problems with mis-sized icons in the main menu?
<ochosi> zequence: there was a bug with that in xubuntu a longer while ago
<slickymaster-job> hey ochosi, morning
<slickymaster-job> did you saw jjfrv8' comments on the xfdesktop preferences?
<ochosi> have lost track of that a bit though
<slickymaster-job> I believe he pinged you last saturday on that
<slickymaster-job> I'm asking because I wanted to know if you're ok with what has done, so I can correct the link in xub -docs
<ochosi> yes, but i was ill (and now my internet connection is soooo lame again...)
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: you can correct that link anyways
<slickymaster-job> hope you're feeling better now
<ochosi> yeah, a bit
<slickymaster-job> ok, I'll make MP tonight
<ochosi> link to here: http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/4.11/start
<slickymaster-job> this weekend has been oddly in sickbay
<slickymaster-job> you and Unit193 
<ochosi> xfdesktop will hopefully receive the patch to point to this page in xubuntu too
<slickymaster-job> I'll do it then
<ochosi> yeah, well it has been kinda springish here, so that's the perfect time for a small influenza epidemic
<slickymaster-job> ttyl
<ochosi> yup, seeya
<bluesabre> even freenode has been unwell
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> and hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> wasn't able to catch you much this weekend due to both illnesses
<bluesabre> ochosi: I like the new panel layout, but I'd be in favor of adding the action buttons back
<bluesabre> that's cool
<knome> bluesabre, come on :P
<bluesabre> I wasn't around much myself
<knome> bluesabre, as if you didn't have time to whine about that earlier
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> I even approved it
<ochosi> bluesabre: you mean *after* voting on it and all, you'd now be "in favor of" ? :D
<knome> yeah, so too late now.. ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> i'd prefer not to open this pandora's box
<ochosi> everyone will have suggestions and stuff
<bluesabre> but I do like the new amounts of free space
<ochosi> yeah, the idea is to mention that you can easily customize the panel in the slideshow
<knome> i do have to agree with sean though ;)
<ochosi> (we're working on that now)
<bluesabre> its really a much cleaner layout
<ochosi> knome: yeah, whatever ;)
<knome> i didn't notice this shortcoming before i ran trusty on vbox ;)
<knome> fortunately it's an easy thing to change!
 * knome hides
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> we can revisit that for T+1
<bluesabre> ochosi: I saw the weirdness with a second monitor sitting in the same spot as the primary monitor with the greeter
<bluesabre> so I can look into fixing that now
<ochosi> bluesabre: that'd be nice, but i don't think it has to be a primary concern. or is this a setup you can generate using xfce4-display-settings?
<bluesabre> none of that matters, its a default x config that doesn't depend on any user's settings
<ochosi> yeah, but how is that handled nowadays that xorg.conf is dead?
 * ochosi is a bit clueless as to that
<bluesabre> shut down your computer, attach a tv, turn it on, bam!
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> basically everything is set at x position 0
 * ochosi doesn't have what they called "tv" in the old days
<ochosi> beh, that blows
<bluesabre> using the native monitor resolution
<ochosi> so we need to handle displays ourselves in the greeter
<bluesabre> I think I know a hack-tastic way around it
<ochosi> we could steal some of the xfsettingsd code
<ochosi> ok
<bluesabre> since its minor, I'm for doing something that just works
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> sounds good to me
<ochosi> we can do better multi-head handling in 2.0
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> that will be fun
<bluesabre> ... not
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> indeed
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta head off to work
<ochosi> okay, seeya later then
<bluesabre> hopefully I'll get something accomplished tonight
<ochosi> btw, prolly won't be around tonight :/
<bluesabre> np
<ochosi> but i can test tomorrow
<ochosi> jjfrv8: thanks for the prefs! looks great and will be merged to docs.xfce as soon as i can
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: ^
<slickymaster-job> thanks ochosi 
<slickymaster-job> lunch time. bbl ->
<ochosi> slickymaster-job: bon appetit
<ochosi> jjfrv8, slickymaster-job: xfdesktop4.11 docs are all complete and here now: http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/4.11/start
<ochosi> jjfrv8, slickymaster-job: congrats and thanks a lot for your hard work on this! it's very much appreciated
<zequence> ochosi: Oh? Could you point me to the fix?
<ochosi> sorry, as i said i've lost track of this issue a (longer) while ago
<zequence> ochosi: Was it during this development cycle?
<ochosi> but i remember us being affected by it
<ochosi> i thought it was fixed in xfce upstream
<ochosi> (but i might be even wrong about that)
<ochosi> fwiw, xubuntu uses whiskermenu by default now
<zequence> We're having this problem right now. Some icons are the wrong size
<ochosi> and i try to provide png icons of the correct size for every app we ship, so at least by default it should be ok
<ochosi> iirc the bug affected xpm icons
<zequence> Ok. I'll look around a bit
<knome> hey slickymaster-job 
<knome> slickymaster-job, i updated the main ubiquity-slideshow-branch
<slickymaster-job> haven't saw it yet, will do it in a minute
<knome> well we did some cool things with ochosi ;)
<slickymaster-job> I tried to pinged this weekend but I was only able to access freenode yesterday night
<slickymaster-job> as I have now, let me ask you something, in the xub -docs changelog there is "xubuntu-docs (14.04.1) saucy; urgency=medium" and also "xubuntu-docs (14.04.0) trusty; urgency=medium" as titles of changes made
<slickymaster-job> knome: so my question is what is the one to be used?
<knome> .1
<knome> that should say "UNRELEASED" instead of saucy
<slickymaster-job> presently is saying saucy, not UNRELEASED
<knome> as i said, *should* say... *instead* of saucy :)
<knome> feel free to edit that if you are doing other changes.
<knome> basically, that status should make it obvious which one you should edit
<knome> if you use some logic...
<knome> the version numbers are xx.xx.y
<knome> where xx.xx is the release number
<knome> and .y is the -docs release count for that release
<slickymaster-job> alright, tonight I'm going to make a MP correcting the link to the xfdesktop docs and rolling back that initial paragraph of the Command-Line chapter and I'll use the correct one
<knome> and version numbers should always match the released status
<knome> so it should be obvious that 14.04.1 <-> saucy is wrong
<slickymaster-job> knome: I'll be using "xubuntu-docs (14.04.1) Unreleases; urgency=medium" -> Is that right? I'm also including in the question the urgency level
<knome> make it UNRELEASED (with that case)
<slickymaster-job> ok, and what about the urgency level?
<knome> the urgency level is what docs packages in debian tend to have nowadays
<knome> used to be low
<slickymaster-job> medium?
<knome> yep
<knome> that's fine
<slickymaster-job> I'm enlightened. Let me go and check the ubiquity slideshow :)
<slickymaster-job> knome: slide 01-desktop.xml
<slickymaster-job> isn't the font size quite small?
<knome> quite.
<slickymaster-job> I mean the font in the text that describes the top panel 
<knome> yes.
<knome> compare it to the text on the panel
<knome> yeaaah, it's a tad smaller
<slickymaster-job> another queastion, 03_personalize.html the space left blank, is it supposed to later have any image addedÂ»
<knome> yep
<slickymaster-job> more than a tad
<knome> not really more :P
<knome> or you are seeing something i'm not
<knome> do you have problems reading it?
<slickymaster-job> I'm having domr difficulties in reading it
<slickymaster-job> s/domr/some
<knome> right
<knome> i'll look at it after beta
<knome> the current one is uploaded
<slickymaster-job> the same goes to the the apps <list> in the 04_defaultapps.html slide
<slickymaster-job> the same about the font size
<knome> but the application "paths" always were that size
<slickymaster-job> other than that, I think it's great, and your initial intention has been fulfilled, the slideshow has been completely revamped 
<slickymaster-job> I do like it
<GridCube> :)
<slickymaster-job> you and ochosi are to be truly congratulated 
<slickymaster-job> hey GridCube 
<GridCube> hey
<slickymaster-job> knome: FYI https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/trusty/+pots/desktop-guide/fi/+translate (92,896%)
<knome> i know
<knome> bbl
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<sergio-br2> fine?
<ochosi> yeah, finally a bit better today
<ochosi> i pushed a webapps branch, maybe you already noticed
<ochosi> (or maybe i mentioned it, not sure with all the netsplits)
<sergio-br2> i will see
<sergio-br2> i'm doing the mimes/96
<ochosi> anyway, you asked me something and i couldn't reply because of the netsplits and the illness
<ochosi> but now i've forgotten the question... :>
<sergio-br2> and there are some mimes in 128 that are a little different of others, in others folders
<ochosi> right, which ones?
<sergio-br2> like text-html.svg, there is a folded sheet
<sergio-br2> this detail, there is no in 6
<sergio-br2> in 64 or 48
<ochosi> (frankly, i haven't taken care of mimes >64)
<sergio-br2> so, what's the normal behavior of these mime?
<ochosi> (i was totally exhausted after doing all the 64px ones and trying to somewhat fix the other sizes)
<ochosi> yeah, that's the "old" look/style
<ochosi> previously all sheets had that folded effect
<ochosi> then upstream switched, so i also switched
<ochosi> that was also a lot of work
<sergio-br2> ah, ok, so i have to change in 128?
<ochosi> there are still some small inconsistencies in smaller sizes i think
<ochosi> ideally yes, but it's not overly important
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> i didn't know what folder to use as example
<sergio-br2> in 96
<sergio-br2> so i can finish mimes/96, having at least all same icons in mimes/128
<ochosi> 48 is a good example i think
<ochosi> ok, great
<pleia2> jjfrv8: not sure if you got an answer, I just saw in my backlog - docs are US english, they are translated to en_UK en_AU etc
<pleia2> I met a tech writer at SCaLE12x this weekend who wants to help with our docs, hopefully he'll drop me an email so I can connect you two
<slickymaster-job> knome: https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/trusty/+pots/desktop-guide/pt/+translate -> 100%  eh eh eh :P
<slickymaster-job> bbl ->
<ali1234> ok so i talked to the gnome people about glib crashes
<ali1234> it was suggested this could be caused by allocating with g_slice and then freeing with g_free, or the reverse
<ali1234> thunar uses both g_slice_free and g_free a lot so this seems entirely possible that someone used the wrong one somewhere
<ali1234> xfce bug 9581
<ubottu> xfce bug 9581 in general "Thunar segmentation fault" [Critical,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9581
<ali1234> hmm :/
<brainwash> Noskcaj: we got 2 important upstream fixes for abiword, what do you suggest to do?
<brainwash> this whole "ubuntu <-> debian <-> upstream" thingy can be so annoying sometimes
<brainwash> bug 1261203
<ubottu> bug 1261203 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword top ruler hidden by gray area on first open" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261203
<brainwash> and bug 1262375
<ubottu> bug 1262375 in abiword (Ubuntu) "abiword crashed with SIGABRT in FV_UnixSelectionHandles::FV_UnixSelectionHandles() saving as PDF file" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1262375
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-25
<jjfrv8> pleia2, thanks for the language answer, I got your e-mail and contacted the writer.
<pleia2> jjfrv8: yay :)
<micahg> brainwash: is there a new upstream release?
<micahg> brainwash: if it's not critical to the beta, I suggest getting the update sponsored into Debian and we can sync post beta 1
<knome> not that critical to the beta. freeze was yesterday (monday)
<knome> off to bed
<knome> nighty!
<pleia2> boo, no b1 isos yet, will have to test tomorrow
 * Noskcaj points pleia2 to the daily ISOs
<pleia2> Noskcaj: yeah yeah :)
<pleia2> I actually do have limited time for this, so I want to focus on helping complete testing for the b1 things, tonight I'll just shift to another part of my todo list
<AussieDownUnder> Hey guys. Just came across the marketing flyers ect for ubuntu & xubuntu, the one where it mentions windows xp going out of support. I might be interested to volunteer by printing out flyers to hand out, put in letter boxes & put up at community places.
<pleia2> AussieDownUnder: that's great!
<pleia2> AussieDownUnder: I had about 50 of the US size printed up for a conference this past weekend, went well :)
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, What is US size? Is it larger than A4?
<pleia2> AussieDownUnder: wider and shorter
<pleia2> I've been collecting photos of the flyers used "in the wild" - none yet from outside the US
<elfy> pleia2: I suspect I'll be asking for a b1 rebuild being as how it's not turned up - should be one this evening for you :)
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, oh okay, the standard size here for flyers & letters is A4. Was gonna try & put one up on the shopping mall corkboard, maybe put a few in the letter boxes in my street, then print out a heap to hand out at my next group meetup.
<pleia2> elfy: it's after 11pm for me, sleepytime soon
<pleia2> AussieDownUnder: yeah, us USians have to be difficult, everyone else uses A4
<elfy> tomorrow evening then :)
<pleia2> elfy: yes!
<pleia2> AussieDownUnder: and that sounds perfect :)
<elfy> it's much too early for me to understand timezones ... 
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, so where could I upload a photo for you to collect of the ones I put up around town? Hopefully if I study & stay in a town 20mins away I can also put them up around the study buildings.
<pleia2> AussieDownUnder: you can share it on flickr/google/fb or just email it to me: lyz@ubuntu.com and I'll share it around
<elfy> knome: can I just request rebuild on the tracker - or do I have to go ask in -release?
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, it will also be a good test for my new printer that's been sitting in its box for 2 months.
<pleia2> AussieDownUnder: nice
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, Added you to my contacts in my email so that I don't forget later, also sent you an email just as a test I guess.
<pleia2> \o/
<AussieDownUnder> Fair well, be back later, I hath chores to do around my house.
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, erm what does that symbol mean? Rock n Roll hand signal?
<pleia2> doh
<elfy> I guess that symbol means - don't press here :p
<pleia2> I think he meant my cheering \o/
<elfy> :)
<elfy> knome: requested rebuild via the tracker 
<Unit193> Don't do "\o/" on Skype, it's a disco dude. :/
<elfy> or just don't do skype :p
<astraljava> Couldn't you disable emoji in skype?
<Unit193> Yes, but the person you are talking to still gets the wrong image.
<astraljava> Oh ok. Blah.
<Unit193> (Also why I'm using Skype.)
<Unit193> Hmmm...  What I'm missing in datetime is a configurable number of clocks under the calendar if you click it, like in gsimplecal.
<Unit193> (Is xfce4-datetime-plugin not the default?)
<AussieDownUnder> Anyone in here actually on the xubuntu development team by any chance?
<elfy> lotsa
<elfy> them
<Unit193> ^ He is.
<elfy> so is he ^
<Unit193> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10202 like this I presume, if he's actually thinking of it like gsimplecal.
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10202 in General "Display multiple timezones" [Enhancement,New]
<Unit193> <--- channel weirdo, actually.
<elfy> AussieDownUnder: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members#active
<elfy> Unit193: there is that too ... 
<Unit193> ochosi: I suppose that's not something you'd like/be able to do? :)
<AussieDownUnder> Well there you go, I've been talking to 1/4 of you without knowing. I must tell all of my friends how cool I am (kidding).
<Unit193> Depends what you mean by Xubuntu dev team, but what's up?
<elfy> any talk of voodoo and I'll be off 
<AussieDownUnder> :O Was just listening to a Jake E Lee pre Ozzy Osbourne album with a song called Voodoo on it. Do De Do Do Do De Do Do (Twilight zone)
<AussieDownUnder> Do you guys/gals all live near each other, ever met or do things together?
<Unit193> Nope, nope, nope.
<Unit193> (Those are for me, astraljava and knome are pretty close, or were.)
<elfy> I'd say the same 
<Unit193> Closest to me would have to be mica, I'd say.
<AussieDownUnder> So do yol just work on seperate elements of xubuntu or have a live contact when working on stuff?
<elfy> we talk to each other in here 
<AussieDownUnder> Swoit
<AussieDownUnder> Should setup a TeamSpeak server so yous aren't completely text robots.
<AussieDownUnder> Do you guys set your own dead lines for the xubuntu updates releases & o/s releases (eg, 14.04) or is there a bit of canonical input in those regards?
<elfy> we work with the release schedule 
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<AussieDownUnder> I was just looking at that. Pretty interesting, the more I log into xubuntu instead of windows the more I learn. Once most of my steam library is supported I'll be on here 24/7
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<AussieDownUnder> I think I've asked this before a couple of weeks ago but I'm probably more understanding of the inner clockworks of xubuntu now to understand whatever yol tell me. Is there something to install that when I press & hold the super key  will bring up a fancy screen which will tell me what hotkeys I have available, something that when I also change what my hotkeys do update automatically & display accurate hotkey list?
<ochosi> we had such a project in the works a longer while ago
<ochosi> but got distracted by more important tasks
<slickymaster-job> -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Trusty Beta 1] (20140225) has been added
<slickymaster-job> -queuebot:#ubuntu-quality- Builds: Xubuntu Desktop i386 [Trusty Beta 1] (20140225) has been added
<ochosi> hmm, light-locker-settings is still stuck in the queue
<sergio-br2> hello
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi, i did a request, take a look please
<sergio-br2> i will return only after the beta 1
<ochosi> sergio-br2: if you'
<ochosi> re referring to the mimes96 branch, i already reviewed and merged ;)
<ochosi> (finally receiving email-notifications about merge-requests)
 * elfy would have swapped with ochosi ... 
<ochosi> elfy: swapped what?
<ochosi> like changing places?
<elfy> getting merge requests 
<elfy> yea - you can get all the ones I get :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> sergio-br2: no worries, even if we don't finish all 96px mimes, this is *so* much better than what we had already...
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> thanks
<ochosi> so have a good time and talk to you when you're back
<ochosi> not sure i'll get to much drawing myself
<ochosi> but i'll try ;)
<sergio-br2> it was fast
<sergio-br2> wow
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> thanks!
<ochosi> elfy: i've been working alone on the icon-theme for years now, it's really nice to finally get some merge-requests :>
<elfy> I don't doubt that at all - I've watched you working on it alone for as long as I've been floating about :)
 * ochosi feels like elfy's truman show now
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<brainwash_> ochosi: beta1 will ship with saucy's xubuntu-artwork package, is the new trusty one stuck in the queue?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> sponsors queue
<brainwash_> :(
<ochosi> brainwash_: why not become a packager yourself and help out xubuntu? ;)
<slickymaster-job> brainwash_: or even a bug triager?
<brainwash_> or batman
<brainwash_> :)
<brainwash_> packaging is not enjoyable for me as of now
<brainwash_> bug triager is on my todo list
 * elfy puts on installing beta head and is bored already 
<AussieDownUnder> perhaps yol could give me things to try & report?
<ali1234> try to figure out why thunar crashes
<AussieDownUnder> Don't even know what thunar is lol, I think I've seen it in the startup applications though
<AussieDownUnder> Yep it's in that auto start session thing
<AussieDownUnder> What is Thunar?
<slickymaster-job> Thunar is Xubuntu shipped file manager AussieDownUnder 
<AussieDownUnder> otay cheers
<knome> ochosi, hrrrr, why no tell me we have packages on the queue?
<elfy> what package do I need to report a bug for keyboard layout changing between the loginscreen and the desktop ... 
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> hey elfy 
<knome> elfy, does keyboard layout changing work outside the greeter?
<elfy> no even looking at that - when the desktop boots - keyboard is set to US 
<slickymaster-job> elfy: keyboard-configuration package?
<elfy> which works wonders when your password has symbols ... 
<elfy> possibly slickymaster-job 
<slickymaster-job> elfy: FWIW https://wiki.debian.org/Keyboard
<elfy> thanks slickymaster-job 
<ochosi> knome: well you know we have >1 pkgs in the queue, it has been like that for quite a while
<ochosi> knome: currently it's 7 (http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/)
<ochosi> and since xubuntu-artwork wasn't as crucial for b1 as other things...
<knome> ugh. right, but ugh
<ochosi> it mostly contains icon-updates and the s/13.10/14.04/ in plymouth-text
<knome> mhm
<knome> elfy, if you intend to do another respin, let me know first (because if you do, we'll get another package updated)
<elfy> I doubt if I will - I was just wondering where our images had got to
<ochosi> knome: frankly, what bothers me more is that light-locker-settings is still stuck in the upload queue
<ochosi> ali1234: you around? tedg just came online
<starrats> good morning everyone!  I have installed xubuntu 14.04 Alpha 2 and it's running pretty good.  But today 2 different times I get to the xubuntu desktop and my cursor is frozen, won't move, is there a quick fix for tha or ?  2nd question which is more mundane why abiword and not libreoffice package?
<holstein> you mean, why not libreoffice by default?
<holstein> you can install libreoffice easily from the repos.. abiword is the chosen default
<elfy> starrats: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-January/009615.html
<starrats> oka that's the mundane > I have no problem with that, more of a curiosity than any thing else holstein
<elfy> as far as a2 is concerned - we've had numerous dailies since then - and if you've been updating you've not got a2 either
<elfy> and we're looking at b1 now - do you see the same thing with that - if you do make sure you report it on the tracker
<holstein> starrats: likely chosen in the first place for size and lightness
<starrats> Thank you elfy for that link I have read it and understand
<starrats> But my real question is why my cursor is frozen when I first turn my comp and go to xubuntu desktop?
<starrats> Is there something I can do thru cli or ?
<holstein> i would try an older kernel.. i would try a different session
<starrats> okay will check for new updats, haven't since In stalled a few days ago and I got tons of updates/upgrades/dist-upgrades
<elfy> ochosi: well I checked LANG and locale - both report gb, odd
<ochosi> elfy: not odd, that means the greeter works
<ochosi> locale != keyboard-layout
<ochosi> the greeter only controls the locale at the moment
<elfy> I meant the bug itself 
<elfy> well locale might well be saying GB - but it's not - it's US 
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/1284635/comments/5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284635 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> never mind - reading != as = there 
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> ali1234: so it seems we'll have to ship the workaround for now i guess
<elfy> knome: what's your view on failing tests for the xfdesktop crash
<ochosi> ali1234: sorry, i seem to be forgetting all about the indicator-issues from one discussion to the next :/
<ali1234> elfy: xfdesktop is fixed upstream, fwiw
<elfy> ali1234: thanks
<ali1234> actually, got a link to the lp bug?
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1282509
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1282509 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()" [Medium,Triaged]
<ali1234> ah, already has the upstream report linked
<elfy> oh yea - I'd have said that if I knew that's what you were after :)
<elfy> ali1234: be useful if someone else with a gb keyboard could confirm bug 1284635
<ubottu> bug 1284635 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284635
<ali1234> i haven't seen that
<ali1234> but then i only login about once a month
<elfy> :)
<ali1234> i guess i can try the ISO
<ali1234> there was a bug like this in ubuntu/unity, i think i mentioned it
<ali1234> unless this is a new one
<elfy> possibly remember you saying something
<elfy> not even sure if I've reported it against the right package tbh
<ali1234> well, i've got no idea. keyboard layouts is one thing i just don't understand
<ali1234> !info console-setup
<ubottu> console-setup (source: console-setup): console font and keymap setup program. In component main, is important. Version 1.70ubuntu7 (saucy), package size 1109 kB, installed size 1531 kB
<elfy> :)
<ali1234> yeah so console keymaps and X keymaps are totally different - that's one thing i do know
<ali1234> i never did figure out how they relate though
<ochosi> gottcode: thanks for your email, just replied. mind if i ask you to review the upcoming merge-request that concerns the whiskermenu-settings?
<gottcode> ochosi: sure thing, what is involved in that?
<ochosi> gottcode: not much, just the switch to defaults.rc in the xfce4-subfolder and checking whether i didn't mess up any options :)
<ochosi> always better to have more pairs of eyes on changes
<gottcode> happy to help
<ochosi> thanks a bunch!
<gottcode> you're welcome :)
<ochosi> on some days i really wish it would be possible to also search all the stuff that's in the settingsmanager from appfinder/whiskermenu
<gottcode> interesting thought, not sure how I would go about adding that
<ochosi> yeah, iirc it isn't really (easily) possible
<GridCube> http://goput.it/es0f.png is this the wallpaper we are suppose to see on ubiquity?
<xnox> hehe
<xnox> it used to be something else.
<ochosi> indeed
<GridCube> ah... should the greeter be white?
<ochosi> GridCube: semi-white
<slickymaster-job> hey GridCube selling yourself upstream?
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> selling?
<ali1234> ochosi: why wouldn't that be possible?
<ali1234> if i can have them all on a menu, whiskermenu must be able to search them
<slickymaster-job> yeah, iso testing debian
<GridCube> http://goput.it/jzmy.png
<slickymaster-job> ;)
<GridCube> like this?
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, frankly, i've forgotten why it wouldn't work :>
<ochosi> GridCube: yes
<GridCube> :/ what happened to the pretty black  one
<brainwash> ali1234: still experimenting with thunar? maybe you could take a look at bug 880533 (in case you get bored of the memory corruption issue)
<ubottu> bug 880533 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar reports Trash Empty when it is not" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880533
<brainwash> :)
<ali1234> hmm... that's ancient... sure it still happens?
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> I marked my new report as dupe
<brainwash> and there is also another user confirming it in 14.04
<GridCube> elfy, virtualbox only had one available resolution, http://goput.it/zmok.png , first opening showed that xfdesktop failed, http://goput.it/9piv.png , that did not show up in later boots, mugshot crashed everytime i tried to change the avatar,  http://goput.it/s1i9.png , the log off menu has a missmatching white border, http://goput.it/524b.png , also the already reported problems with wallpapers and abiwords ruler
<ali1234> ...i don't have a trash icon in the panel...?
<brainwash> sidebar?
<ali1234> oh wait, i see
<ali1234> hmm... can't reproduce
<brainwash> did you relog?
<ali1234> no
<brainwash> delete a file, relog, open thunar
<elfy> GridCube: yea - I know all about vbox :| but it won't make any difference to running the tests
<GridCube> brainwash, tested the trash thing and it says i have 1 item if i reboot or relog, repeated the steps in the last comment of the bug
<brainwash> GridCube: no, the logout dialog is meant to be this way, white + grey, just like the login box
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> i wont even ask why
 * GridCube just dont get it
<GridCube> elfy, would this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1282509 be the same i saw as xfdesktop failing?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1282509 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop crashed with SIGSEGV in xfce_desktop_refresh()" [Medium,Triaged]
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> loads of dupes 
<elfy> fixed upstream ali1234 tells me
<GridCube> my keyboard doesnt change, i've reloged like 10 times
<elfy> keyboard layout do you mean? 
<GridCube> i guess
<elfy> perhaps it is just when you set kbd to gb 
<GridCube> so then i dont report the logout white borders?
<ochosi> GridCube: that's the intended look
<GridCube> but it looks wrong
<GridCube> gah, nevermind i wont report it
 * ochosi shrugs
<GridCube> yep thats exactly why it wont make any sense reporting it
<elfy> ochosi: is whisker-menu definitely replacing the old app menu? 
<knome> elfy, yes, that was decided on the meeting
<elfy> ok cool - just checking before I start looking at testcases 
<knome> elfy, we tweaked the settings a bit yesterday with ochosi, you probably want to make sure you are seeing the latest setup
<elfy> not necessary atm 
<slickymaster-job> knome: did you just forgot https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/208035 or is there something in there you wanted tweaked?
<knome> slickymaster-job, i just haven't got to it yet :)
<slickymaster-job> okie dokie
<elfy> knome: actually I'll leave it for the moment and look when we've made a decision on what to have in favourites
<knome> elfy, we discussed that, but i'd be in touch with ochosi :)
<elfy> yep
<Calinou> will there be site translations?
<knome> Calinou, if you are asking about xubuntu.org, doesn't look realistic for trusty
<Calinou> OK
<Calinou> oh, you're the website designer :D
<knome> i am
<knome> ochosi, GridCube pointed out in -offtopic that the greeter password field could be lighter compared to the background of the top part (compare how the search box stands out more in the settings manager)
<starrats> I do not know if this 'useful feedback' but I still have a problem of a frozen cursor at start up on the xubuntu desktop, it's frozen in the middle of the page and nothing works, I have to 'hard crash my laptop to get to windows to do anything?  I believe this is useful feedback also.
<holstein> starrats: on 14.04
<starrats> yes holstein
<starrats> sorry forgot to mention that
<holstein> could be related to the graphics driver and the newer kernel..
<starrats> is there anything I can do on my  laptop, like a cli thing
<starrats> or the ubuntu software 
<holstein> starrats: you can try confirming if its graphics related.. check tty after the lockup.. just keep updating.. try older kernels.. try newer ones. etc
<starrats> ah okay my friend
<starrats> thank you
<pleia2> social media-ed the need for testers
<holstein> starrats: good luck
<starrats> thank you
<starrats> holstein was running updates/upgrades and a window popped up with a message to restart or ? one of these items xscreensaver or xlockmore, sorry I do not understand
<holstein> starrats: its a commitment. running the pre-release :)
<elfy> ty pleia2 
<brainwash> starrats: cursor frozen in the middle of the page? you mean after the desktop has been fully loaded?
<brainwash> elfy: maybe it's ibus changing your kb layout
<brainwash> knome: can you link the beta 1 pad please?
<brainwash> or anyone :)
<knome> /lastlog beta1
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1404Beta1
<elfy> brainwash: I'm guessing that it must be :|
<brainwash> knome: thanks
<brainwash> heat level of the xfdesktop crash report goes through the roof :D
<starrats> yes brainwash frozen in the middle after startup and on the xubuntu blue desktop
<brainwash> starrats: did you already report your issue on launchpad?
<Travis> boy did I just get a big error on Trusty Tahr Alpha 2.  I had a "bad file" error pop up during install, shutting it down.
<knome> Travis, have you tried with the beta 1 image?
<elfy> knome is too quick for elfy
<Travis> Not yet, but am going to get it righ tnow.
<Travis> Wow, it's not even up on ubuntu's site.
<Travis> Alpha 2 is
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds
<Travis> only when going to this link:  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/
<knome> Travis, it's not officially released, we're just testing the images
<Travis> ah
<knome> if you wish to help, speak to elfy on reporting results
<starrats> brainwash I tried to but launchpad wouldn't accept my password and when they sent me a code number to put in a new passowrd they still wouldn't let me in to report the bug, so it really never got reported because of those 2 problemsd
<Travis> elfy:  I am at the selection screen, where I choose how to install Xubuntu.  I cannot get the "continue" button to light up, even after selecting "erase & reinstall"
<Travis> elfy:  I got it working, by going back to a previous screen, then continuing the install.
<Travis> Elfy:  I am now getting a Errno 5 Input/Output error on 14.04
<Travis> grrrr
<elfy> that's not sounding much fun - is this a dvd or usb? 
<Travis> dvd
<elfy> did you check the download?
<Travis> Yes
<elfy> I'd check the dvd from the dvd boot menu - hit any key when it starts up - there's an option to check the dvd there
<elfy> when you see the human/kbd things at the bottom
<Travis> Running a checker on the iso again
<elfy> you checked the dvd already? thought you said you'd checked the download
<Travis> I am doing it again, just to cover my rear end.
<Travis> It's a good ISO.
<Travis> Time to do the on-disk check now.
<Travis> ok says it found an error in one file.
<elfy> only time I've got that error in the last 12 months is when I've whipped out the usb before it's ready for me to 
<Travis> It didn't tell me wihc one.
<Travis> which*  The check went too fast.
<elfy> well - reburn it 
<elfy> do you not have usb capable h/ware ?
<Travis> yes
<Travis> My issue is that I am currently on a Windows machine.
<elfy> 2 secs
<Travis> I have been having trouble creating a bootbale usb stick that way.
<elfy> http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/unetbootin-windows-latest.exe
<elfy> tried unetbootin? never had it fail for me 
<Travis> I did earlier and didn't have success, but will try agian.
<Travis> again*  dang fingers.
<elfy> ok - if not then you'll want to reburn it 
<Travis> how much space would I need to make space for preserving files across reboots?
<elfy> I never do - I only use it to install with - are you wanting to install TO the usb? 
<Travis> no
<Travis> I follow what you're saying.  If it's to act like a DVD, don't create any space.
<elfy> aah ok - if you're just using it instead of dvd 
<elfy> yea - that saved me tryping more :)
<Noskcaj> what do i have to do to replace xscreensaver with light-locker?
<elfy> purge xscreensaver - light-locker I think is installed - check though
<elfy> then if you want to try the -settings app the ppa info is in a mail I did to -devel recently
<elfy> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:light-locker-settings-team/stable
<Noskcaj> ok, thanks
<Noskcaj> Is it worth me trying to get the xfdesktop4 fix straight to ubuntu, or do we have time to wait for debian?
<elfy> I'd talk to knome about that
<elfy> it does need doing though - ringing bells with jenkins as well 
<elfy> :)
<knome> Noskcaj, if it doesn't look realistic that it'll land to ubuntu before b2 via debian, then apply it directly.
<Noskcaj> ok
<Travis> elfy:  so far so good on the install.
<elfy> Travis: excellent - did you get unetbootin to work ok for you?
<Travis> yes
<elfy> nice 
<Travis> I am trying out the 64 bit edition.  I have notice a couple of oddities.
<elfy> you going to report them? 
<Travis> I don't know if it's a true error or my mistake.
<elfy> there are reports on the tracker - you could look at what's been reported
<Travis> Doesn't look like it's a OS fault.  Looks like it's mine.
<Travis> If I let the install sit too long without acting, I've had to go back one screen, then back to the screen I was just on, to continue.
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> shouldn't have to do that - it might black screen from the screensaver is all 
<Travis> ok.  I was rather surprised to see the Debian swirl on the desktop.  I am not used to seeing it on a Xubuntu desktop.
<Travis> off to play with 14.04
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> why are people seeing that :|
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-26
<pleia2> ToZ: I saw that too!
<pleia2> err
<pleia2> sorry ToZ :)
<pleia2> Travis has left
<ToZ> :)
<pleia2> but hey, ToZ has the debian bug too, so me too :)
<pleia2> secretly I did mean you
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, PING
<Noskcaj> Catfish has many CVEs. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=739958
<ubottu> Debian bug 739958 in catfish "catfish: insecure when cwd is world-writable (CVE-2014-2093 CVE-2014-2094 CVE-2014-2095 CVE-2014-2096)" [Normal,Open]
<Noskcaj> Also, could you make some basic tests for catfish?
<xubuntu_> hey 
<xubuntu_> chan sey there?
<xubuntu_> nyone?
<Noskcaj> wow, one minute from join to ragequit
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, I sent an email today to a Public Permaculture Farm in the guts of Brisbane, AU today requesting them to stick up an ubuntu/xubuntu flyer to their notice boards. They're pretty good people & I'm sure they'll appreciate giving out free information on free operating systems.
<pjotr_> Hello, is there any news about the potential inclusion of the bugfix release Xfburn 0.5.0 in Trusty?
<pjotr_> Jackson Doak (noskcaj) has filed a launchpad bug report for it, but there's no reaction there yet:
<pjotr_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfburn/+bug/1282937
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1282937 in xfburn (Ubuntu) "Please package xfburn 0.5.0" [Undecided,In progress]
<slickymaster-job> elfy: I confirmed Toz'z bug 1284923
<ubottu> bug 1284923 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop settings dialog opens in own window" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284923
<elfy> cool
<elfy> or not - as the case maybe - is it a bug - or new expected behaviour :)
<slickymaster-job> elfy: good question
<elfy> I've just seen the debian bug - using install rather than try 
<slickymaster-job> let's ask ochosi 
<slickymaster-job> ochosi ^^^
 * ochosi doesn't know anything
<ochosi> :}
<ochosi> one sec
<ochosi> sooo much backlog again
<elfy> let's ask Henry the Mild Mannered Janitor then
<ochosi> should definitely drop a few things from my highlight-list (e.g. light-locker)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> ok, so the xfdesktop-settings question, right?
<slickymaster-job> yeaps
<ochosi> that's a known issue
<ochosi> and it's on the radar, will hopefully be fixed soon upstream
<elfy> is there an upstream bug for it?
<ochosi> possible
<ochosi> but i'm not sure know
<elfy> looking
<ochosi> now
<ochosi> crap, s/know/now/
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: and also xfdesktop4 realated -> bug 1284914
<ubottu> bug 1284914 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop network shares not visible on desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284914
<ochosi> hm, that should be fixed i think
<slickymaster-job> I'm also confirming that one
<ochosi> at least it's optional now
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> i have no network shares here now, so :/
<elfy> can't find one 
<ochosi> then feel free to file one
<ochosi> i guess eric_the_idiot will be happy to have a bug to close soon :)
<elfy> lol
<pjotr_> elfy: sorry to interrupt, but as a a member of the Xubuntu Bugs Team, do you know what will happen with the recent bugfix release Xfburn 0.5.0?
<elfy> pjotr_: I'm afraid not - we are aware of it as you know
<pjotr_> do you know when it'll be decided?
<elfy> No idea at the moment - and it won't actually be my decision :)
<pjotr_> OK... who's the boss in this matter then?  :)
<ochosi> i guess the ubuntu developers will decide in the end whether they'll sponsor it or not
<ochosi> but they have a lot on their plates right now, so it might take a bit
<pjotr_> OK... Which person can I contact best about it, do you think?
<ochosi> nobody for now, just monitor this queue: http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<slickymaster-job> ochosi: http://imagebin.org/295909
<slickymaster-job> elfy: ^^^
<ochosi> pjotr_: there are tons of things there and many have a higher priority than xfburn
<pjotr_> I understand.... :) 
<pjotr_> But there's no harm in asking.... 
<ochosi> there is
<ochosi> ppl will get annoyed
<ochosi> the thing is asking won't change anything apart from that ^
<ochosi> if you want to change this situation, become a packager and then become a MOTU
<pjotr_> OK, point taken....
<ochosi> then you can upload stuff yourself
<ochosi> but until then sit back, relax and watch the queue i linked you to ;)
<pjotr_> I will. It's fascinating. =D
<elfy> ochosi: reported and linked to LP bug https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10714
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10714 in General "xfdesktop-settings opens in seperate window" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> ty
<elfy> I always forget that username there is e-mail address ... 
<ochosi> firefox remembers for me
<elfy> it used to for me :)
<elfy> it will next time lol
 * ochosi keeps his fingers crossed for elfy's browser
<slickymaster-job> way to go elfy ;)
<ochosi> reminder about 12.04->14.04 upgrades: we have to take care of xscreensaver somehow, because ppl might end up having both installed
<ochosi> (light-locker+xscreensaver)
<elfy> yea - I was thinking about that the other day - and the indicators 
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> elfy: mind to add it to the meeting agenda?
<ochosi> bbabl
<elfy> ochosi: yep - I'll do it now
 * qwebirc813940 curses his work internet connection
<elfy> having fun then slickymasterWork :)
<elfy> so what was that screenshot earlier of?
<slickymasterWork> of a reproduction of bug 1284914
<ubottu> bug 1284914 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop network shares not visible on desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284914
<elfy> oh right 
 * elfy doesn't have any of those
 * slickymasterWork over here is working for the man, so he does have one of those 
<elfy> :)
 * elfy doesn't have a french kbd - but he's installing with one 
<slickymasterWork> lol
<elfy> I'm guessing that it won't get set to US 
<starrats> while doing sudo apt-get update, halfway thru i got these errors libc6-dbg:amd 64 & libc6: amd 64, libc-dev-bin    I hope these are repairable by me but I do not know how.  As some of you have said that just do updates everyday well this is the latest results, should I just delete this version and try again with all the updates added to the new install or what.
<starrats> oh btw good morning
<elfy> it wasn't a partial upgrade was it?
<starrats> no a partial update, never got to upgrade
<elfy> so it's just the apt-get update bit?
<starrats> one thing good, I hope my cursor was frozen today when I got on
<starrats> yes sudo apt-get update is what I did
<elfy> ok - well nothing is done yet then :)
<elfy> make sure you've not got proposed enabled in repos
<starrats> went to do something and came back and I got this error about manuallu doing a dpfg thing
<starrats> dpkg
<elfy> I'm guessing it's been a while since you updated - there's not been any updates recently
<elfy> oh - so you must have done apt-get upgrade as well then
<starrats> I updated yesterday afternoon
<knome> we should have the next meeting tomorrow in the normal time.
<knome> i'm running away in a minute, so if anybody feels like it, edit the meetings page
<elfy> there is a difference between update and upgrade - if you tell me you've updated then I'll assume that's what you've fone
<elfy> starrats: 
<elfy> knome: ok - I'll do that - 1900UTC ?
<starrats> yesterday  I did apt-get upgrade and that's when I first encountered this problem
<elfy> right so you will have to run the dpkg command
<starrats> I did update/upgrade yesterday and during the upgrade is when I encountered this problem about manually doing the dpkg thin
<starrats> sorry I can't remember the exzct words
<starrats> what is th e dpkg command?
<elfy> open a terminal - run sudo apt-get update and you'll get the exact words - then copy paste them :)
<starrats> okay
<starrats> bbiab
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, yes, I am aware as of yesterday, will releases fixes this weekend
<starrats> well updat went thru without any problems
<starrats> update
<starrats> now I will run upgrade
<starrats> You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these.
<starrats> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<starrats>  libc-dev-bin : Depends: libc6 (> 2.19) but 2.18-0ubuntu7 is installed
<starrats>  libc6-dbg : Depends: libc6 (= 2.19-0ubuntu2) but 2.18-0ubuntu7 is installed
<starrats>  libc6-dev : Depends: libc6 (= 2.19-0ubuntu2) but 2.18-0ubuntu7 is installed
<starrats> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
<starrats> this is what I got just after starting upgrade
<knome> elfy, yep, thanks
<elfy> starrats: please use pastebin next time :)
<starrats> should I run that one thing listed and do it in sudeo?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> knome: welcome
<starrats> ah don't know how with pastebin
<elfy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/
<elfy> copy stuff in - then click paste - then give people the url
<elfy> or use pastebin which is installed
<elfy> !pastebin
<ubottu> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<knome> ok, i'm off ->
<starrats> okay next tyime but since I did it here should just use sudo to correct what it's telling me to do?
<elfy> bye 
<starrats> bye knome
<elfy> starrats: yes :) it will tell you what you need to do 
<elfy> wb slickymaster 
<starrats> ok elfy
<starrats> well I got thru update/upgrade/dist-upgrade just now and looks like things got repaired thru restart in the term
<elfy> starrats: most times it will tell you what you need to do
<starrats> I know but my Linux is quite rusty but catchinmg on, lol 
<starrats> it has been a few years since I worked with Linux of any sort
<starrats> but thank you elfy and i will bookmark the pastebin site
<elfy> welcome :)
<starrats> plus I will try to get on launchpad for other things I find but launchpad was giving me grief not accepting my pw
<starrats> so far all is fine except one problem that disrupted me earlier, the ubuntu software update popped on and said I had to restart the computer to get all those update/upgrade/dist-upgrade to work, I did and when it came back to the xubuntu desktopm y cursor was frozen in the middle of the screen, but now I'm back and just letting you know this 
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, do you have a version of menulibre available for testing that has the directory creation and top-level menu things working?
<ochosi> gottcode: would be nice if you could take a look at this merge-request, would be nice if you could add a comment in case everything is in order: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/whiskermenu_defaults/+merge/208386
<gottcode> ochosi: looks good to me
<ochosi> gottcode: ok thanks!
<ochosi> knome: shall we schedule a meeting for tomorrow?
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I think I saw earlier that knome did say we would meet at the normal time and elfy volunteered to edit the meetings page
<ochosi> ah, ok
<ochosi> cause it doesn't seem to be in the google-calendar (yet)
<jjfrv8> ochosi, so if I make the two changes in your whishker MR manually, I'll see the proposed new look?
<ochosi> jjfrv8: do you already have the new panel layout?
<jjfrv8> think so. installed the beta
<ochosi> (i think xubuntu-default-settings in its latest upload should contain that already)
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> yeah, so the easiest way is to open your ~/.config/xfce4/panel/whiskermenu*.rc
<ochosi> and then paste in the settings from my merge-request
<jjfrv8> cool. I want to work on the guide-desktop.html docs page today so I wanted to see the most current stuff possible.
<ochosi> great!
<ochosi> yeah, this should be fairly final
<ochosi> the only thing that could change is the order and amount of "favorites"
<jjfrv8> ok. I'll try to avoid getting locked into too much detail.
<ochosi> don't think it's a huge problem, just saying
<jjfrv8> sure
<ochosi> and i've discussed the current favorites with knome already
<ochosi> so they're certainly not just a first thought
<ochosi> but who knows, i'm open if someone thinks i've missed something
<jjfrv8> e.g., one of the things I wanted to check was that we have current refs to 'main menu->Help', which doesn't appear on the version of whisker in the beta
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it's in the favorites now
<jjfrv8> :)
<ochosi> (which is displayed by default)
 * elfy doesn't do the calendar jjfrv8 :)
<elfy> doesn't even know where it is offhand 
<slickymasterWork> hmm I'm under the impression that it's Unit193 who takes care of that
<slickymasterWork> the calendar
<ochosi> yeah, quite possible
<ochosi> is he still ill?
<slickymasterWork> think not, the surgery went and he was recovering well
<slickymasterWork> +fine
<slickymasterWork> went fine :P
<slickymasterWork> but the truth is I haven't seen him much around, which is odd
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> didnt know there was surgery involved
<ochosi> good to hear that went fine though
<slickymasterWork> yeah, he had appendicitis
<ochosi> hmm
<slickymasterWork> Noskcaj, can you please raise the status of bug 1284923 to 'Triaged'
<ubottu> bug 1284923 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop settings dialog opens in own window" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284923
<jjfrv8> ochosi, you still around?
<ochosi> i am
<ochosi> what up?
<jjfrv8> looking through our current doc pages we have a lot of references to "mainmenu->Settings Manager"...
<jjfrv8> do you think with whiskermenu we'll stay with just the icon at the bottom?
<ochosi> i guess so
<ochosi> i mean we can add it to the favorites if you feel it's hard to discover where it is currently
<ochosi> also, ppl can search for "settings"
<jjfrv8> no, not at all, I just was wondering if we should add that icon to entities, tell ppl to search, add to favorites, all of the above? :)
<ochosi> yeah, i'm also not certain
<ochosi> we can quickly discuss it at the meeting tomorrow if you want
<ochosi> (feel free to add it to the agenda)
<jjfrv8> sounds good
<ochosi> ok cool
<elfy> great 
<elfy> added a bunch of upgrade tests to the beta now
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> i'm not sure that it's a great place to keep this, but i added my two current 12.04->14.04 upgrade-concerns to the features blueprint
<elfy> saw that 
<ochosi> elfy: if you have an idea for a better place feel free to move it
<elfy> I couldn't think of a better place :)
<schproodle> Are xubuntu trusty images on hold for now? 24 Feb seems to be the latest.
<elfy> schproodle: that's because we aren't testing dailies at the moment - we are testing Beta 1
<elfy> it will only change if we rebuilt
<schproodle> elfy, Beta seems to be 24 Feb too.
<elfy> yes 
<elfy> it will only change if we rebuilt
<elfy> nothing will change with the available images until after the beta gets released
<schproodle> elfy, I see. Thanks.  Anything more I should do iwht the available ones. Done 4 testcases each for 32 and 64 bit.
<schproodle> that is, 5 testcases each eh.
<elfy> upgrade tests are there to be done :)
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds
<elfy> then tick the upgrade box on the left filter 
<schproodle> have not done any of those.  Are they different from daily builds?
<elfy> yea 
<schproodle> testcases for those as well, I suppose.  OK
<elfy> you need to start with 12.04.4 then upgrade to 14.04 for both 64 and 32 bit
<elfy> then there is also 13.10 to 14.04 in 32 and 64 bit
<elfy> one is a test with update manager - the other test is with a 14.04 beta image
<schproodle> OK.  Install 12.04 on vms and go from there eh.
<elfy> please :)
<elfy> I'm starting 64 bit here atm - so if someone else can do 32 bit that would be awesome
<schproodle> Will do, just now looking for 12.04...32 bit coming up...
<elfy> oh - and once you've installed 12.04.4 there are a bunch of updates you need to do before upgrading
<schproodle> got it.  I don't see 12.04.4 yet...
<elfy> http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/
<elfy> 12.04 is at the bottom of the page
<schproodle> 12.04.3...found 12.04.4 desktop 32.-bit... torrent
<schproodle> elfy, Where are the testcases for the upgrade?
<schproodle> elfy, Testcases for Upgrade Xubuntu i386 in Trusty Beta 1: I will therefor use 'LTS Desktop Upgrade (Precise).  Correct?
<elfy> schproodle: yep
<schproodle> elfy, upgrade 'quantal quetzal' is offered.  I am not on the right track am I?
<schproodle> elfy, testcase asks for 'Any new version' in update-manager.  That selection results in an ugrade ti quantal.  Selc=ecting 'For longterm support versions" offers to upgrade to 14.04.  Is the testcase msleading in this regard?
<schproodle> elfy, using 'Upgrade in Upgrade Xubuntu i386 for Trusty Beta 1' testcase
<schproodle> elfy, I believe you wanted an upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 NO5 12.10
<elfy> yep
<elfy> which testcase are you following - give me the url :)
<elfy> ochosi: first upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 - indicator-sound and indicator-sound-gtk2 installed, and bottom panel is still there
<brainwash> the bottom panel will remain if you have an user config for the panel
<elfy> yea - guessed as much
<schproodle> elfy, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds/63614/testcases/1310/results
<elfy> schproodle: for that you should have started with 13.10 - then that will upgrade to 14.04
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds/63614/testcases
<elfy> top 2 are 13.10 to 14.04 - bottom 2 are 12.04 to 14.04
<schproodle> elfy, which one do you want for now?
<schproodle> elfy, I have a vm with 12.04 ready to upgrade so i can just change to the other testcase eh.
<elfy> yep :)
<elfy> the bottom one is the quickest
<elfy> that uses a 14.04 image to upgrade from
<jjfrv8> knome, slickymaster, https://code.launchpad.net/~jjfrv8/xubuntu-docs/chapters-3-4-updates/+merge/208469
<jjfrv8> it's not a real merge request - too preliminary for that. Just wanted to get some comments on some proposed changes for the new panel
<schproodle> elfy, I was using the 'bottom two' http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds/63614/testcases for the testcase for an intended upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04.  Following the LTS Upgrade testcase lead me to report the instructions lead to an upgrad to 12.10 from 12.04.
<elfy> well - don't worry about what the testcase says - as long as it upgrades from 12.04 to 14.04 then it passes
<elfy> unless of course it is only letting you upgrade to 12.10 
<elfy> in which case perhaps the 32 bit ones are wrong - the 64bit one worked fine
<schproodle> elfy, Since I changed to 'For long term support versions', it does offer 14.04 as the upgrade.
<elfy> ok
<schproodle> elfy, You mean the 32 bit testcase is incorrect?
<elfy> schproodle: no - and I don't have time to check it right now either :)
<elfy> if it upgrades from 12 to 14 pass it :)
<schproodle> OK
<elfy> ty :)
<ali1234> brainwash: i still can't reproduce that trash bug
<brainwash> ali1234: strange, maybe some special timing is needed
<brainwash> but what could race her?
<brainwash> here
<elfy> schproodle: there is something awry with the tracker
<brainwash> ali1234: if I open thunar for the first time after restarting the session, it will display the trash content, but thunar is not aware of files in trash
<elfy> knome: you about?
<elfy> I'm off now - if you see this - have a look here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds/63613/testcases
<elfy> I did the 2 lts upgrade tests - but it's marking them in both normal and lts - apart from where it is just showing a bug 
<elfy> strange 
<schproodle> elfy, Usually I am awry -- remains hard to tell the difference eh. : )
<elfy> schproodle: when you report these upgrade tests - make a note physically of what you've done - because you might find that you report it and it shows up where you didn't test as well
<elfy> yea - well I'm definitely awry at the moment lol 
<elfy> night all
<Unit193> jjfrv8, slickymaster: Right, was thinking I hadn't done that: http://goo.gl/12GKd4
<schproodle> upgraded 12.04 to 14.04 -- upgraded from a lts release to lts release but terminal command shows Prompt=normal. lsb_release indicates 'Release: 14.04'.  Should I try to file a bug? Testcase seems to suggest that these results indicated failure.
<schproodle> What happens if I just indicate in progress BTW?
<schproodle> I can't fail it without a bug report.
<Unit193> ochosi: Doesn't whiskermenu support xdg config dirs??
<pleia2> knome: reviewed announcement + release notes
<pleia2> made it a bit less wordy in a couple spots, but mostly looked great
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: your MP looks quite good. My only question would be why you add the Top Panel section to the beginning of the chapter
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: I was under the impression that we we would go with personal info (mugshot) - appearance - menu(libre) sequence in the Settings and Preferences chapter
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: kind of personal preferences -> looks -> menu editing
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: never mind 
<slickymaster> I saw now that that's in guide-desktop.xml
 * slickymaster thinks that sometimes multitasking can be quite risky
<schproodle> re:  Upgrade (image) in Upgrade Xubuntu i386 for Trusty Beta 1
<schproodle> QATRacker testing testcase is confusing.  Is there another image for upgrade.  After select install from the regular iso upgradind is an option but not at the welcome screen as suggested by the testcase text.
<knome> schproodle, that testcase expects you to have a previous version installed
<Unit193> Also, for upgrading to development versions, in do-release-upgrade and the upgrade-manager, you'll need the -d switch.
<schproodle> knome, copy that -- is that all.?
<knome> schproodle, if the testcase is misleading, then it should be fixed.
<schproodle> knome, you want me to do something about that like a bug against the testcase?
<schproodle> OK.  Put it this way:  Is there ever an option at the initial screen from booting an iso that shows an option for upgrading?
<schproodle> If not, then the testcase language seems to be nonsensical.
<schproodle> I think I now understand the distinction between 'Upgrade' and 'Upgrade (image)' Former wants an upgrade from the previous version via update-manage and the latter an ujpgrade from the iso boot installation option.
<schproodle> That is, testing two different methods for upgrading.  Sorry I did not understand that earlier.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-27
<pleia2> added german and revised french translations of the startubuntu flyer to http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/ \o/
<pleia2> ooh, there's a danish one too /me adds
<knome> aha
<ochosi> Unit193: seemingly not, this is the place it checks for global default configurations of the plugin. best to submit an issue on github about it
<Unit193> No GH account. :P
<elfy> knome and anyone else interested - beta 1 is now marked ready
<Unit193> Howdy, cub.
<cub> Morning!
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Line 50 of your merge proposal, that isn't actually opening the Applications Menu if we do go with whiskermenu.
<Unit193> (Also, not just indicators but notification area too, but that's even more minor.)
<elfy> knome: I've done draft announcements - I assumed you wanted 2 - the pad made it look like that to me
<starrats> just let you all know that just finished update/upgrade/dist-upgrade and now a new one popped in term about not needing certain items and to do apt-get autoremove and all wen quite well.
<starrats> Just a question, are the little notes that I tell you here bother or help you as a user coming here?  
<elfy> they don't bother me - but I tend to skim them unless there's an issue :)
<elfy> they might bother other people though ;)
<starrats> ah okay if they bother then I won't relay them unless it becomes and issue but then it's usually to late, at least for me
<elfy> well we are working on the dev version - so any issues either should have or need a bug report, regardless of whether it's too late for you or not
<schproodle> What does 'ready' mean here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds
<schproodle> 'Upgrade Xubuntu i386 (ready)'
<elfy> that it is marked as ready for release
<schproodle> elfy, What other testing for xubuntu should I explore?
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases
<elfy> packages if you want - specifically the Xubuntu Networking and Xubuntu Trusty Additional groups at the bottom
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: what elfy is referring to is http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases
<slickymasterWork> ups, elfy already had provided you the link
<schproodle> Yes, thanks.
<schproodle> Wish I could get the Guest Additions installed on vm -- lousy 640 x 480 resolution.  Doesn't seem to work on 14.04 vm.
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: what virtualization software are you using?
<slickymasterWork> Oracle VirtualBox?
<knome> elfy, one for the blog, one as the full notes in the wiki
<schproodle> yes, seems to work for Debian vm but not for 14.04
<slickymasterWork> what version?
<slickymasterWork> is it 4.3.8?
<slickymasterWork> and what VBGuestAdditions version are you using?
<schproodle> 4.2.16 on 13.10
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: you have to update them. Thing is your VBoxGuestAdditions version doesn't recognize the latest release of X.Org Server, which is now 1.15 in Trusty, so they fail to install
<schproodle> 4.2.16_86992
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: ^^
<schproodle> right, do I have to upgrade vbox too
<slickymasterWork> I would advise to do so
<schproodle> that is the one in the respository for 13.10 however.  Sorry, I am not more adroit.
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: you can download VirtualBox 4.3.8 for Linux from https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads. Just make sure you download the right file for your architecture (32bit or 64bit)
<schproodle> yes, I just found that.  got the deb 
<slickymasterWork> ok, once downloaded all you have to do is to navigate into the folder where you downloaded, open a terminal there and run sudo dpkg -i <file_name>.deb
<schproodle> seems I have to remove guest additions first however
<schproodle> the old version  Using synaptic to clear out the old vbox
<schproodle> I will get the new Guest stuff but there is another addition for usb, can't remember
<schproodle> extension pack?? 
<elfy> knome: don't understand what you mean
<knome> elfy, the release *announcment* is meant for the blog
<knome> elfy, the release *notes* are meant for the wiki, along with the usual common infrastructure -changes
<elfy> oic 
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Beta1 or something 
<knome> well something in those lines
<elfy> without the roadmap bits :p
<knome> lol
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu/Beta1
<elfy> anyway - I hate fighting the stupid wiki
<knome> hmm wait
<knome> hah
<knome> leave that to me then ;)
<knome> not that...
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/Beta1/Xubuntu
<knome> that
<knome> did the first version of that
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I'll do the bug links if you like
<knome> nah, i'm on it
<elfy> ok
<elfy> knome: the announcement just needs the torrent/download links when we get them - and you to decide you don't like the way it looks :)
<knome> does the users-admin bug actually stop you from adding a new user?
<knome> also, is the USC bug happening every time?
<elfy> user-admins lets you add user and set it up
<elfy> and I doubt it for USC
<knome> so, what's the crash?
<knome> just crashes after it has added the user?
<elfy> but then the keyboard one won't affect anyone other than people with a gb layout
<elfy> yea - crashes after close of it seemingly
<knome> ok, just updated the wikipage
<knome> check if those are accurate descriptions
<elfy> not easy to decide which to mention - the kbd one affects me - the network share one I'd not take any notice of
<elfy> looking
<knome> well at least we have now user-understandable descriptions to look at
<knome> and decide
<knome> updated
<knome> s/GB/British/
<elfy> Thunar doesn't automatically removable - missing mount
<elfy> Both xscreensaver light-locker are active - missing and
<knome> feel free to edit :P
<knome> i've dropped the edit lock
<elfy> thought you still had lock :)
<elfy> well you did when I looked lol
<elfy> ok - all done then 
<knome> ok, good
<slickymaster> Unit193: changed the changelog according to what we discussed -> See revision 149
<knome> now should look at the announcement
<slickymaster> Unit193: I think is good to be merged now
<knome> hmm, yeah...
 * knome drops "new wallpaper" from the notes
<knome> we don't have that yet :P
<knome> elfy, which issues do we want to pick for the announcement?
<knome> i'm not sure if there is actually any *really annoying* one
<knome> looking at the list we have in the notes
<knome> except maybe the xsreensaver/light-locker one, but that's only on suspend
<elfy> well - everyone will get the xfdesktop one
<elfy> thunar and usb's has been going on for ages so ... 
<knome> yah
<knome> maybe those
<elfy> probably just the new ones - xfdesktop, network shares, xscreensaver/light-locker and a special mention for anyone with a gb keybord lol
<knome> nah, i think that's fine not in the annoucement :P
<elfy> :p
<knome> so shares
<knome> m
<elfy> yea - just the 3 I'd say - it links to release notes 
<knome> 3? :P
<knome> oh
<knome> yeah....
<elfy> :)
<knome> i'm messing up with the annoucement
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/?p=2152&preview=true
<elfy> looks
<knome> thinking some subheadings could do good for that :P
<knome> updated
<elfy> highlights and known issues  
<knome> further udpated
<elfy> I was just about to say that lol
<elfy> yea that looks ok to me 
<knome> yep, now just need the download links
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> first one to see them edit and publish?
<knome> worksforme
<knome> well,
<knome> publish only after it's official ;)
<knome> but yep, that's what we should do
<elfy> yea of course
 * knome goes poking the wiki, need to include the common known issues
<knome> ok, the wiki should be in order
<knome> ...and changed the link on the announcement to the correct url
<elfy> thanks
<knome> back to reading irc logs
<elfy> lol
<GridCube> elfy, knome, shouldnt it point the issue with no wallpapers shown in xfdesktop settings manager? i mean we are saying that there are new wallpapers avialable but people wont be able to find them
<knome> GridCube, can you confirm that bug is still in beta1?
<GridCube> yes
<knome> is there a bug report for it?
<GridCube> there is
<knome> can you link us to that, and we'll make sure it's in the annoucement/notes
<knome> i need to do some commercial work for a bit
<GridCube> getting it
<knome> bbiab
<GridCube> here knome https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfdesktop/+bug/1271713
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1271713 in xfdesktop "xubuntu 14.04 trusty thar desktop wallpapers selection shows empty" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> elfy, ochosi ^
<ochosi> still the case with xfdesktop4.11.3?
<GridCube> its still there in the beta1 iso
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> that's not a bug in xfdesktop
<ochosi> i guess it's a bug in xubuntu-default-settings or something
<ochosi> cause xfdesktop isn't pointing to a folder with wallpapers
<knome> yep
<ochosi> ok, will do a merge-request/fix for that then
<jjfrv8> Unit193, not sure what you mean by "that isn't actually opening the Applications Menu"
<ochosi> (i think he meant applications-menu isn't the same as whiskermenu, but frankly i don't think that matters for users)
<ochosi> (two different plugins with the same purpose, so if you refer to them functionally, it's the same)
<elfy> GridCube: you doing that now?
<jjfrv8> yeah, I wanted some feedback on the terminology we should be using now. Like do we ever actually want to refer to it as "Whisker Menu"
<jjfrv8> the only time ppl will actually see that name is when they go into Properties
<GridCube> elfy, doing what
<elfy> This content is currently locked. If you take over, GridCube will be blocked from continuing to edit. 
<GridCube> sorry
<GridCube> closed the window
<ochosi> jjfrv8: yeah, i personally wouldn't refer to it as whiskermenu
<knome> maybe just refer to it as "menu"
<knome> to avoid *any* ambiguity
<jjfrv8> "main menu"?
<knome> that's the friendly name for menulibre in the settings manager
<jjfrv8> I think Main Menu in SM is still alacarte, Menu Editor is MenuLibre
<knome> ah, that
<knome> but anyway..
<knome> it's used
<elfy> done both pages
<jjfrv8> and speaking of that, we've got three different names for Settings Manager. the WM tooltip says "All Settings", the actual dialog says "Settings", the menu entry says "Settings Manager".
<knome> elfy, thanks
 * elfy has been putting off a trawl through testcases for Application Menu 
<ochosi> jjfrv8: probably worth an upstream bugreport
<jjfrv8> ochosi, where should I file that?
<ochosi> jjfrv8: xfce4-settings on bugs.xfce.org. but i guess you need a full proposal on what to rename to what
<ochosi> who would quickly wanna test a proposed setting for 14.04? (it takes about 1min)
<GridCube> in the topic of beta1 bugs, #1284720
<knome> bug 1284720
<ubottu> bug 1284720 in Mugshot "mugshot fails at attempt to change avatar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284720
<jjfrv8> ochosi, what you got to test?
<GridCube> toz pointed why it fails, and it seems we dont ship the preset faces anymore (they are there in 13.10)
<ochosi> run "xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/IconSizes -s "gtk-button=16,16" in the terminal
<ochosi> jjfrv8: ^ (and all others interested)
<ochosi> that is a setting i'd love to have in 14.04 by default
<ochosi> (16px icons on buttons instead of the huge-ish 22px)
<jjfrv8> doesn't look like it changed anything for me
<elfy> GridCube: the thing is - where do we stop listing bugs? page 2 or 3 or 4 :)
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> i did not meant to list that on the news page, i just wanted for people to remember it exist P:
<elfy> oic :)
<GridCube> the wallpaper one i find important 'cos we say we have new wallpaper but they wont see them
 * elfy still thinks that the gb keyboard one is important :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-27-154344.php (proposed look)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-27-154410.php (current look)
<jjfrv8> ah so. I agree. Looks nicer.
<ochosi> everyone else, feel free to take a look at this ^ and try for yourselves
<ochosi> (run "xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/IconSizes -s "gtk-button=16,16" in the terminal, to reset set it to 22,22)
<jjfrv8> for similar reasons, I like to set whisker to "very small"
<GridCube> ochosi, i notice that the X on close changes icons between each size
<GridCube> its prosible to have the bold X in the tiny icons?
<ochosi> jjfrv8: the categories are set to 16px in my proposal, apps to 24px
<ochosi> GridCube: yeah, i'd try to improve that
<GridCube> the arrow remains basically the same
<GridCube> i like the smaller button but the x looks not similar to the arrow
<ochosi> well don't focus too much on the "x" right now
<ochosi> it changes all icons
<ochosi> just try it
<ali1234> omg
<ali1234> sort out the vertical alignment
<ali1234> this is not KDE...
<ochosi> what are you referring to exactly?
<ali1234> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-27-154344.php
<ali1234> icons are too high, text is too high
<ochosi> say thanks to gtk2
<ochosi> and it's only 1px
<ali1234> also text is too high relative to the icon
<ochosi> so you prefer the huge icons?
<ali1234> i prefer the one where the icons are in the right place, yes
<ali1234> the text is too high on both
<ali1234> it should be 1px lower relative to the icons in both
<ochosi> you're welcome to investigate that 1px, so far you seem to be the first person to notice/mention that
<ali1234> actually i don't understand how the <- is even number of pixels tall and the X is odd number of pixels tall
<ali1234> look at the middle of the <- - it is two pixels
<ochosi> ok, before everyone keeps commenting on the close-icon, here's a different screenshot: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-27-160003.php
<ali1234> gah that's even worse
<ochosi> it's the same alignment
<knome> ali1234, patches welcome
<ali1234> two pixels padding at the top 4 pixels at the bottom
<ochosi> gtk2 doesn't support that fine-grained-ness of theming
<ochosi> you can work around it by redrawing all icons from 16x16 to 16x15 possibly
<ochosi> (or it might even be further off then)
<ali1234> i don't know about that... all i know is orion draws the icons and the text in the right place
<ochosi> and anyway, doesn't solve your problem with the font
<ali1234> what font is that?
<ochosi> Droid Sans 9
<ochosi> our default
<ali1234> what icon set is it?
<ochosi> orion has the same settings
<ali1234> yeah, i just can't make my system look like your screenshot
<ali1234> not even if i switch to greybird
<ali1234> oh wait, yeah i can
<ali1234> yeah that's definitely down to using a tiny font
<ochosi> and it's only an "optical illusion" that the icon has a 1px offset
<lderan> elfy, got that keyboard bug as well
<ochosi> ali1234: 4px above and below: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-27-160754.php
<ochosi> ali1234: it's just the bright inside border in greybird that makes it seem uncentererd
<ali1234> right, so remove that
<ochosi> right, no
<elfy> lderan: yep - saw that - I'd hazard a guess that anyone with a gb keyboard will
<ali1234> from the icon i mean
<ochosi> yeah then i can change that one icon
<ochosi> what about the others?
<ochosi> also: the white bottom border has a purpose
<ochosi> should help the icon stand out on darker backgrounds
<ochosi> and anyhoo, the font is still uncentered then (which it is anyways)
<ochosi> what really makes that icon seem uncentered is the white inner border of the button
<ochosi> ali1234: you're using a different font-setup though anyways, right?
<ali1234> probably
<ochosi> if it consoles anyone, i'm not using this setup either
<ochosi> i'm using "xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/ButtonImages -s false"
<ochosi> jjfrv8, GridCube: in case you wanna test one more setting ^
<elfy> unsurprisingly elfy didn't see any change with any of them 
<elfy> really needs new glasses ... 
<ochosi> hihi
<jjfrv8> ochosi, is that just supposed to set it back to the default of 22x22?
<jjfrv8> oops, wait, didn't look closely enough
<ochosi> jjfrv8: it should hide the icons actually
<jjfrv8> yeah, I'm having to type the commands and I didn't see the difference. I like the icons, though.
<ali1234> ochosi: do you know anything about the monitors.xml and the monitor config panel?
<ali1234> especially wrt bug 1283615
<ubottu> bug 1283615 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon trashes monitor config" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283615
<ali1234> eg where does the xfce config panel save the settings? and what applies them at startup? and does it get run inside the greeter?
<jjfrv8> bb later for the meeting
<binali> Good Luck!
<ochosi> ali1234: you mean the display dialog? that's part of xfce4-settings, so xfsettingsd is applying the settings
<ochosi> and no, it's not running in the greeter yet
<ali1234> i'm going to try to figure out why all the output names are off by one
<GridCube> sorry ochosi i had to close the beta1 virtual machine it was eating too much resources and i needed to catalogue some stuffs, can i test it in this machine (13.04)
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> oh, that takes the icons off the buttons, i like that ochosi, but remember that the icons help people who has some sort of reading disparity
<GridCube> s/has/have/
<brainwash> GridCube: you should upgrade your 13.04 system :)
<GridCube> P: i will once 14.04 comes up
<brainwash> fresh installation?
<elfy> or fight upgrading an eol install :)
<GridCube> P: will probably be fresh, yes
<ochosi> ali1234: good idea, that doesn't happen with all drivers though. for me, it works with nouveau and is off by one with nvidia. display-settings work is fun!
<elfy> GridCube: you know that 14.04 is pretty much solid as a rock anyway - then you could test things really easily :)
<GridCube> mmm but the 14.04 vbox is stuck at 640x480 resolution, and to download the vbox addons i would have to figure out, again, how to mess with the internal settings so apt-get can actually bypass the proxy(given that there is no way to set up proxys in xubuntu) so, yeah, not gonna mess with that
<elfy> ochosi: is there a good reason why hotkeys in gmusicbrowser don't work on other workspaces? 
<elfy> GridCube: oh - so you don't have xubuntu on hardware - I'd have kept quiet if I'd known that 
<GridCube> P:
<elfy> GridCube: also - try getting a new vbox - works here now 
<GridCube> :D
<ochosi> elfy: depends on what you mean. you can define hotkeys within gmusicbrowser, but afaik those need the window to have focus
<elfy> yea - exactly what I mean
<ochosi> elfy: you can also define global keyboard-shortcuts for gmusicbrowser in the keyboard-settings
<GridCube> the vbox ihave is the only one IT will install for me
<ochosi> elfy: check "gmusicbrowser -listcmd" for the available commands
<elfy> GridCube: aah - okay - I'll shut up then
 * GridCube goes to ot
<elfy> ochosi: thanks :)
<ochosi> elfy: no problem :)
<elfy> ochosi - thanks, got those going now
<crusador> I have a problem transferring complete files to an usb or hdd device with Emmabuntus2....sometimes the file is not totally transferd
<crusador> Can anyone help
<knome> crusador, we don't support emmabuntus 2
<knome> crusador, and this is the development channel, not the support channel
<crusador> sorry im new in linux
<crusador> where can i get help
<knome> crusador, http://forums.emmabuntus.org/
<crusador> thank you so much
<crusador> its not working...but thank you anyway
<knome> you should ask for help from any emmabuntus support channel, or whatever they are offering
<knome> we're unable to support derivatives that base on our system, because we don't know what kind of changes they might or might not have done
<crusador> i got it thanks
<ochosi> meeting in 1hr or in 2?
<knome> 2
 * ochosi is a bit confused right now
<ochosi> ok
 * knome slaps ochosi 
<knome> does that help with the confusion?
<ochosi> i guess not
<knome> hah
<ochosi> in case i forget to announce that later, lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings is pretty much ready now
<ochosi> (UI to configure every aspect of the greeter, incl. the position of the login-window)
<GridCube> o:
<GridCube> thats awesome
<ochosi> hopefully we can get it in with a FFe
<brainwash> ochosi: how do you launch it, so it can actually change the config file owned by root?
<ochosi> pkexec
<brainwash> ok
<ochosi> the desktop-file will just contain that
<ochosi> so like synaptic, it'll spawn a pwd-dialog
<brainwash> sounds great :)
<ochosi> it is :)
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: just installed light-locker settings lderan did but when I try to run it I get ->Unable to start /usr/bin/light-locker-settings. Failed to execute child process /usr/bin/light-locker-settings (No such file or directory)
<ochosi> slickymaster: you installed it from the PPA?
<ochosi> gah
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: 
<ochosi> ^
<slickymasterWork> nopes, downloaded the tar and installed it
<slickymasterWork> on B1
<ochosi> then you messed that up :)
<ochosi> just use the PPA
<slickymasterWork> how come?
<ochosi> i guess you'd have had to use parameters, frankly, i never installed it manually
<slickymasterWork> I build it and then istall it
<ochosi> when testing it, i just ran it from the folder without installing
<slickymasterWork> what are the parameters?
<ochosi> as i just said...
<ochosi> i wouldn't know
<slickymasterWork> ok
<brainwash> where did you install it?
<ochosi> you can also try to locate the binary
<ochosi> maybe it ended up in /usr/local/bin
<brainwash> the executable is apparently not where it should be
<slickymasterWork> hmm, nopes
<slickymasterWork> no wait, you're right, It went to /usr/local(bin/
<ochosi> then "--prefix=/usr" would solve that problem most likely
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, it did solve it
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: the PREFIX value in the configure file is set to /usr/local
<slickymasterWork> that's most likely the culprit
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: that's normal, if you build and install more stuff by hand you'll notice
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: confirmed. I've edited it to /usr and it's working as expected
<ochosi> bbl
<lderan> slickymasterWork, huzzah for it working as expected
<brainwash> how did you try to launch it? via app menu?
<slickymasterWork> lderan: the font color adverting to restart the session when you change the settings it's practicably unreadable. It's to light
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: via settings manager
<brainwash> mmh, so the binary path is hardcoded?
<brainwash> inside the .desktop file I mean
<ali1234> xfce4-settings won't build on trusty
<GridCube> how would i test this patch? http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=05adaa59dbedd89b3e0ae6001ff367572c1be7d2
<GridCube> what i have to do? (installing the guest addintions did show some results http://goput.it/b71i.png )
<GridCube> but the non-active wallpapers are invisible until you clic on them
<GridCube> also i don't see the community wallpapers, are they to be installed separadetly?
<lderan> slickymasterWork, that bit appears fine for me, might be a theme issue. We're making a change to one of the sliders so will take a look at that :)
<slickymasterWork> lderan: this is with Greybird and elementary Xfce darker
<GridCube> ok, im want to answer in the lp bug report but i do not know how to apply the patch :/
<lderan> thanks
<ochosi> weird, so ppl are experiencing random problems with infobar-theming in greybird
<ochosi> also read that wrt the greeter
<ochosi> (if you enter a wrong password, an infobar, that should be red, pops up)
<ochosi> sucky part is i can't reproduce it
<GridCube> ochosi, let me see
<GridCube> ochosi, http://goput.it/z4zk.png
<ali1234> hah, i see the problem
<ali1234> (with display settings)
<ochosi> i'll be 15mins late for the meeting...
<ali1234> mr_pouit: you broke the monitor settings :P
<ali1234> (4 years ago)
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10717
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10717 in Display Settings "Display settings mixes up monitor EDID names" [Normal,New]
<Noskcaj> o/
<ochosi> so what's with the meeting now?
<dockelley> Was it scheduled to start 20 minutes ago, or did I get the time wrong?
<ochosi> yup, it ws
<ochosi> was
<ochosi> who's around? just to see whether it makes sense to have one
<jjfrv8-work> o/
<Noskcaj> o/
<Noskcaj> knome?
<ochosi> (if enough ppl are around, i can chair, but i need a few minutes to read up on the bot commands and the agenda...)
<elfy> !team | meeting
<ubottu> meeting: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> I'm about 
<slickymaster> o/
<slickymaster> did everyone forgot the meeting?
<ochosi> maybe it wasn't added to the calendar or not announced vocally enough...
<elfy> no idea how to add it to the calendar
<slickymaster> I think Unit193 did it
<ochosi> not sure how it is with you guys, but we can also wait a little longer to see whether more people come around
<elfy> nothing to stop us 
<elfy> I'm cool with that ochosi 
<jjfrv8-work> me too
<dockelley> no worries
<ochosi> ok, let's check back in 30mins?
<elfy> okey doke
<dockelley> while we're waiting, is Beta1 going to drop today?
<elfy> slickymaster: someone did - it's on the calendaty
<slickymaster> I'll start on dinner prep in the meanwhile
<elfy> sigh
<elfy> calendar
<elfy> dockelley: will be released soon
<dockelley> :-)
<slickymaster> I could bet that was Unit193 who did it elfy 
<elfy> yea :)
<elfy> dockelley: you can get it if you want anyway - just grab it from the iso tracker
<dockelley> thanks
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds
<ochosi> ali1234: in your bugreport "all unconnected outputs" means monitors that arent attached with a cable to the computer but were connected in the past?
<ali1234> no, it means all outputs regardless of whether they've ever been connected or not
<ali1234> it only knows the current state
<ochosi> outputs == connectors? (hdmi, dvi, vga, etc)
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> ah ok
<ali1234> xrandr deals with connectors and it uses the edid to get the monitor name
<ochosi> but doesn't that mean ppl could try to activate an output where there's no cable?
<ali1234> yes it does
<ali1234> i am not familiar enough with the code to provide a real fix
<ali1234> not yet anyway
<ochosi> i'd consider that a bit of a backdraww
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> well, you've pinpointed the problem nicely
<ochosi> it's been a longer while that i've had a look at the display code
<ochosi> bluesabre also worked on it
<slickymaster> afk
<schproodle> QATracker: Transmission in Xubuntu Desktop for Trusty Daily.  How do I submit a bug report for Transmission -- link 'File a bug' giveThis product doesn't have detailed bug reporting instructions yet.'s 'show
<elfy> ubuntu-bug
<elfy> ubuntu-bug packagename
<micahg> did someone say meeting?
<ochosi> elfy: do you still consistently get the problem with the unreadable infobar in the greeter (when entering a wrong password)?
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<micahg> hi ochosi 
<elfy> ochosi: funnily enough I looked a short while ago - still hardly readable
<elfy> hi micahg 
<ochosi> elfy: hmmm :/ can't reproduce it though
<ochosi> micahg: we decided to wait a bit since there was only 5 of us around at the actual meeting time
<ochosi> micahg: btw, may i poke you to merge the remaining requests to the seed and upload it?
<Noskcaj> micahg, what should i be working on in preparation for next time i apply for MOTU?
<ochosi> micahg: there are also two -default-settings merge-requests that need merging..
<micahg> ochosi: sure, but most likely slammed until Monday
<micahg> Noskcaj: I'd suggest trying to be more aware of the impact of your uploads as well as being able to test build uploads more effectively
<micahg> ochosi: ok, I've seen quite a few things come into my mailbox
<micahg> I'll see if I can squeeze anything in
<micahg> but that probably won't be until the weekend
<ochosi> micahg: okeydokey, well the changes are quite easy to review, if you can at least merge them we can look for sponsors
<schproodle> elfy, got it. Bug #1285843  Thanks.
<ubottu> bug 1285843 in transmission (Ubuntu) "Queue selections do not move torrents" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1285843
<elfy> guess we should call the whole thing off then 
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> yeah, seems like it
<ochosi> i'll be around a while longer, taking a break now
<ochosi> so in case ppl wanna do a spontaneous meeting in another hour, that's still possible for me
<elfy> nothing to stop us doing it - but it seems a bit pointless if we can't do more than chat - we can do that without meetingbot :) 
<Noskcaj> micahg, I've test built everything for about two months now, and my internet might be improving soon, so i'd be able to do more/bigger merges
<ali1234> who's on the agenda?
<micahg> Noskcaj: there were some comments about missing dependencies once uploads happened, if you've addressed that, that's great
<ochosi> ali1234: there's a few things carried forward from last time
 * slickymaster is going to take advantage from the fact that the meeting is  postponed and is going to finish making dinner
<ochosi> ali1234: what's the status of the gtk3 indicators stack?
<slickymaster> awf
<ali1234> well for my part: the gtk3 stuff is progressing on unity side, there are some branches here from ted: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted
<ali1234> looks like he added the stuff for all the other sessions as we discussed with him the other day
<Noskcaj> micahg, Yep. I've addressed that, although only recently i realized i should be checking  syncs for added depends that are non-main
<ali1234> so we're now waiting for those to be merged
<ochosi> cool, that's good news
<ali1234> i think we need to make some changes in the indicator plugin to make it run the upstart event
<ochosi> hmm, again?
<ali1234> yes, unfortunately, but it's a 1 liner
<ochosi> that blows a bit
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> that could even go in as a patch, without andrzejr doing a new release
 * elfy is wandering off into the dark for a bit 
<ali1234> yes, and that may be more appropriate depending on what other distros want (if they even use it)
<ochosi> yeah, i mean the whole plugin is a bit ubuntu-centric anyway...
<ochosi> although i've read of arch users
<ali1234> i actually added it once already but i don't think i saved the patch
<ali1234> it's easy anyway
<ochosi> well you could stash the patch in a bugreport already somewhere and link it to the features blueprint
<ochosi> that way it can also be applied if you wouldn't be here for one reason or another
<ali1234> ok, i'll do that
<ochosi> thanks!
<ali1234> same patch might be needed in the greeter
<ochosi> fwiw, i took a very close look at Orion, and it displaces the 16px icons on buttons by 1px, so it's actually centered there
<ali1234> heh
<ochosi> hmm, is it for sure that we'll need that patch in the greeter?
<ochosi> cause we're planning a bugfix release tonight
<ali1234> i'm not sure
<ochosi> so it'd be pretty good timing
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> then i guess we'll wait
<ali1234> depends how you currently run the indicators
<ochosi> same as unity greeter
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> well, how is that?
<ali1234> unity-greeter was patched
<micahg> Noskcaj: check-mir is a nice script for that
<ochosi> ali1234: this is the init: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L368
<Noskcaj> oh,cool. Didn't know about that script
<micahg> I have a question, I dropped the ball on this, but I was wondering if the gtk3 indicator stuff made it in
<ochosi> ali1234: when was unity-greeter patched?
<ochosi> micahg: yup, it's all in
<micahg> great news
<ali1234> ochosi: ok, so shell init and send an event? yes that's the correct way
<micahg> thanks
<knome> emmmh, yeah
<knome> something distracted me, and couldn't be around
<knome> did you get anything discussed?
<ali1234> ochosi: this is the unity-greeter patch, it's identical: https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/unity-greeter/upstart-indicators/+merge/192936
<ochosi> micahg: yup, we also got upstream releases of the panel and the indicator-plugin
<ochosi> ali1234: yup, our greeter indicator-loading was refreshed quite recently, that's why i wanted to know. it works nicely currently
<ali1234> ochosi: same thing needs to go into the plugin too, so we use upstart instead of xdg-autostart
<ochosi> ok, i see
<ali1234> if it hasn't already gone in that is
<ochosi> haven't checked the plugin in a while
<ochosi> knome: we just talked a bit about the gtk3 indicator status
<ochosi> (that was one of the carried-forward items on the meeting agenda)
<ochosi> for those of you who want to test the settings dialog for lightdm-gtk-greeter, there are packages for trusty here: https://launchpad.net/~kalgasnik/+archive/ppa
<ochosi> we'll hopefully be able to set up a proper PPA soon
<knome> okay
<ochosi> fwiw, this is the project: https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
<ali1234> elfy:  i noticed my keyboard layout went funny today
<elfy> oh good 
<ali1234> it was set to UK + extended winkeys which means my backquote key was acting strange
<elfy> mmm - mine was set to US 
<elfy> lderan saw the same thing
<ali1234> in the settings there is layout and then sub-variant
<ali1234> there's no "default" variant so i had to select the top level layout which is kind of weird
<ali1234> i dunno if this is related
<ali1234> i might have just made a mistake while installing
<elfy> yea - I pick the top level - no idea if it's related 
<ali1234> i haven't tried the installer recently
<tryxchat> qatracker xchat test message
<elfy> thanks tryxchat - someone reads my mails then :)
<wickscherrycoke> the 
<elfy> will be back if they follow it properly :p
<elfy> :)
<a5m0> dangit, mpv requires ndividia restricted? but i want to keep nouveau :(
<schproodle> elfy, seems you met my friend tryxchat -- don't know about mails though :)
<ochosi> hm, the whole kb layout thing is odd
<ochosi> there is a patch for the greeter to add kb-layout support, but we're past feature-freeze now...
<elfy> ochosi: had a look at the lightdm settings thing - will look properly tomorrow
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> thanks elfy 
<elfy> well - I have really had enough of today - night all
<elfy> welcome ochosi :)
<schproodle> elfy, tks
<ochosi> ali1234: what bothers me more than the 1px offset in the gtk2 buttons is the cut bottom part of buttons in gtk3 :/
<ochosi> i've dug around enough to produce a workaround, but it's fugly
<pleia2> sorry I missed the meeting :( thought I'd make it, but my cold disagreed
<ochosi> actually there wasn't one
<ochosi> that is, you weren't the only one missing it ;)
<pleia2> so I see :)
<Unit193> slickymaster: If you'd have placed a bet, you'd be a richer man. :P
<ochosi> knome: should we re-schedule the missed meeting for tomorrow?
<knome> that's not better for me
<ochosi> different time?
<knome> different time works, but is there something that needs to be done/discussed before next thursday?
<ochosi> not sure, there are a few items on the agenda
<ochosi> we could theoretically resolve some of them without a meeting as well i guess
<knome> sure
<knome> i'd imagine somewhat many people are around now
<slickymaster> Unit193: I knew it was a safe bet
<Unit193> slickymaster: I did ping you with the link afterall. :P
<slickymaster> did you get to saw revision 149 of my MP?
<ochosi> knome: i'm not against doing an impromptu one now if you want ;)
<schproodle> qatracker: Light-locker in Xubuntu Desktop for Trusty Daily -- xscreensaver seems to lock screen.  Whatis/whereis light-locker
<ochosi> schproodle: you have to purge xscreensaver
<knome> ochosi, well start a discussion... ;)
<schproodle> ok
<slickymaster> Unit193: did you get to saw revision 149 of my MP?
<schproodle> ochosi, got it, thanks
<Unit193> slickymaster: Not yet, will soon.
<ochosi> anyone else here who can confirm this visual bugin the greeter? http://goput.it/z4zk.png
<ochosi> asking cause i can't reproduce it but i have a patch that needs testing...
<ochosi> (explanation: enter wrong password in the 14.04 greeter, red(!) infobar pops up telling you you entered a wrong password)
<ochosi> (in this screenshot it's obviously white, which is bad and unintended)
<schproodle> howto do a Ctrl+Alt+F7 in vm Virtualbox to test light-locker
<ochosi> schproodle: you need to use the virtual-box modifier key
<ochosi> (i think by default right ctrl)
<schproodle> ok I will try that one
<ochosi> so right-ctrl + f7
<ochosi> (the modifier key is displayed in the right bottom corner of the virtualbox window/statusbar)
<schproodle> right-ctrl is a sub for ctrl+alt ??
<ochosi> in the virtualbox-window, yes
<schproodle> right-ctrl + f7 did not seem to do anything eh
<ochosi> well i have no clue what modifier-key you use
<schproodle> ochosi, OK thanks :)
<brainwash> ochosi: yes, with the greybird version installed by the shimmer-themes package
<brainwash> wait a minute.. I already told you that some days ago :)
<ochosi> brainwash: great!
<ochosi> well, i was asking whether anyone was *around* with that bug :)
<ochosi> anyhoo, i can pastebin the diff in a few secs
<brainwash> I fixed it by adding some code from git8master
<brainwash> git/master
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> It was this block which I've copied from upstream https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/blob/master/gtk-3.0/gtk-widgets.css#L107
<brainwash> no clue why it was broken in the first place and why this change magically fixed it
<ochosi> wait, last time you said that you already had the stuff from that commit local
<brainwash> uhm, I copied the linked block over to the greybird theme provided by the shimmer-themes package (trusty)
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> still, weird that that worked
<brainwash> usually I use the git version, so I've never noticed this issue
<ochosi> and light-locker-settings also works for you (the infobar)?
<brainwash> I did not test it yet
<brainwash> so where is your pastebin diff? :)
<ochosi> well if the git-master version fixes things, then there's no need for additional changes
<ochosi> (pastebin would've been here, but it's useless now i guess: http://dpaste.com/1667584/ )
<ochosi> i'll just ask elfy to update to greybird from git and test that again tomorrow
<ochosi> if he confirms it's fixed, i can cross that one off my list
<brainwash> the strange thing is that the upstream commit has been added some days ago, but the infobar looked fine before that also (git/master)
<ochosi> yeah, that's why i wanted to try this patch
<ochosi> but anyway, i'll have to wait for elfy or Gridcube then
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm wondering why that gtk3 cut buttons is bugging you less than me...
<brainwash> ochosi: bigger fonts is the secret :) this way you never see cut buttons
<ochosi> that's a very fugly workaround
<brainwash> if you don't see it, it won't bug you :P
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-27-233419.php
<ochosi> try to do this with bigger fonts ^
<ochosi> still ugly
<ochosi> also, i'd have to bump droid sans to 11(!) for the bug to disappear
<brainwash> the gnome guys will fix it soon, they'll simply remove the buttons and call it an improvement
<ochosi> i'm afraid they won't fix it because it doesn't affect them
<brainwash> did they add some magic to their default theme?
<ochosi> no idea, the adwaita engine seems to work around that
<ochosi> also, using svg/png assets for the buttons also fixes it
<ochosi> even unico doesn't expose the bug
<ochosi> (which is why ubuntu folks aren't seeing it)
<brainwash> :(
<brainwash> silly_cut_buttons
<ochosi> yeah, that's a fugly workaround
<ochosi> i'm working on a better one right now
<ochosi> huhu
<ochosi> bumping only the button-font looks fun: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-02-27-234144.php
<ochosi> (and works)
<schproodle> can't find light-locker-setting for testing
<ochosi> it's still only available from a PPA: https://launchpad.net/~light-locker-settings-team/+archive/stable
<ochosi> stuck in upload-queue
<schproodle> ochosi, should I test with the ppa?
<ochosi> schproodle: yes, please
<schproodle> oh, I see elfy's mail-archive message
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-28
<ochosi> GridCube: i'm about to switch off now, i presume it'll take a while longer till it's tested
<ochosi> just ping me with the result and i'll read it tomorrow
<ochosi> also, if it doesn't work, this would be the alternative fix: http://dpaste.com/1667584/
<GridCube> ochosi, so i just need to get the ppa and update?
<ochosi> GridCube: yup, update shimmer-themes, maybe restart after that to be sure, then check the greeter
<GridCube> (if the problem presents in this test machine now ofcourse)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> well i'd suppose it should, if it did on the other machine
<ochosi> i don't think it's *that* random
<ochosi> (at least i hope)
<GridCube> ok, ill test it once i get the iso
<ochosi> thanks!
<ochosi> night everyone
<slickymaster> nighty ochosi 
<GridCube> what is an "avahi service discovery"?
<GridCube> ochosi, the error presented in the test box, then after adding the ppa and upgrading it fixed
<GridCube> gah :(
<GridCube> there is no way to use mugshot
<GridCube> shouldnt usc be in the favourites of the menu?
<GridCube> what does this means? http://goput.it/dtop.png
<Unit193> Do you ever use mycomputer.local?  If not, it means nothing.
<GridCube> no, its the very first time i see this
<GridCube> but it pop up ever time i log in in the vm
<bluesabre> if somebody sees Noskcaj: https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.0/1.0.1
<pleia2> Noskcaj: not sure if you saw: 20:46:38 < bluesabre> if somebody sees Noskcaj: https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.0/1.0.1
<Noskcaj> bluesabre sent me an email about it, thanks though
<pleia2> ok good :)
<elfy> ochosi: what do you want me to do with greybird? git or ppa
<elfy> ochosi: lightdm greeter settings appears to work :)
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so I assumed you wanted me to grab greybird from git and use that - so did
<elfy> I see the same thing with the password error - very faint message
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<brainwash> elfy: did you replace the greybird folder in /usr/share/themes/ ?
<elfy> brainwash: no - I moved the new one in there, renamed, and then used it 
<brainwash> strange
<brainwash> git version should look fine
<elfy> you can see it says something - it's just very faint 
<brainwash> can you check /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf please?
<elfy> for what
<brainwash> and see if the new greybird theme folder is being used?
<ochosi> well the easiest thing would've been to add the shimmer daily PPA
<ochosi> upgrade shimmer-themes, restart, check the greeter
<elfy> couldn't find the ppa :)
<ochosi> lmgtfy
<ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/daily/
<elfy> brainwash: it'll just say greybird - because the old greybird is called something else :p
<brainwash> so you've renamed the old folder, ok :)
<elfy> ochosi: ok - not sure what was going on there - the ppa one is completely readable here :)
<ochosi> elfy: that just means you messed up something with using the git version, that's all
<elfy> entirely probable that time of the morning :)
<ochosi> anyway, makes me happy cause it means there is nothing i have to do other than wait for the next upload of shimmer-themes
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> Noskcaj: while xubuntu-artwork still hasn't been updated/uploaded by anyone, i guess it's fine if i refresh the icons from github one more time, right?
<Noskcaj> yep. I'll re-make the tarball tomorrow
<ochosi> ok,thanks
<ochosi> i'll push it now
<ochosi> changelog doesn't need a bump cause it already says "update icons" :)
<ochosi> Noskcaj: ok, done (rev259)
<elfy> bluesabre: bug 1286046
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1286046 could not be found
<elfy> wut
<elfy> bug 1286046
<elfy> bug 1286046
<knome> bug 1286046
<ubottu> bug 1286046 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in g_object_unref()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286046
<elfy> grrr - well it's really there 
<knome> it doesn't reply to the same query twice
<knome> so you need to ask something else in between
<elfy> must have been catching up - it got marked as private to start with 
<knome> something like that
<elfy> knome: ok thanks :)
<knome> oh, banks
<ochosi> yeah, we have (very) long standing packaging issue with the plugins
<knome> why can't you show me your price list.
<ochosi> so i'm pretty sure that's the issue there, elfy 
<ochosi> :/
<elfy> ochosi: aah, ok wasn't aware of that
<ochosi> it's quite annoying, cause the mpris2 plugin is actually very nice (and new)
<elfy> yea - I saw that on sean's blog just now
<ochosi> we need to find someone who can help us with that in fact
<ochosi> the packaging is the same as in debian, we're quite puzzled by this...
<elfy> that'll not be elfy then ... 
<ochosi> awwwh
<elfy> ochosi: I know what I can do :p
<elfy> knome: you might be able to answer this - in the docs - is whisker-menu just going to be called menu? 
<elfy> I'll do the same for testcases
<knome> it's ok to call it just menu at least in the testcases
<elfy> that'll do - though I might change things to 'open blah' or 'start blah' 
<knome> :)
<elfy> then we can do whatever in future ... 
<Unit193> knome: Thoughts about that for docs?  "Applications Menu" is the actual plugin name for the "older style" menu.
<knome> Unit193, i know, which is why i'd lean towards "menu"
<slickymasterWork> Noskcaj will you please raise the status of Bug 1286046 to 'Triaged'
<ubottu> bug 1286046 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in g_object_unref()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286046
<elfy> slickymasterWork: there is backlog about this bug :)
<knome> done.
<slickymasterWork> :) good morning knome 
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I know elfy. It's like ochosi stated, is a long-standing issue in Paorle
<slickymasterWork> s/Paorle/Parole
<elfy> if I'd known I'd not have bothered wasting my time reporting it tbh
<Unit193> elfy: But as stated, crashing part is new.
<knome> good day slickymasterWork 
<elfy> Unit193: meh
<elfy> I hate reporting bugs that are just going to sit there forever and a day gathering dust
<Unit193> s/ that/./
<elfy> not even sure how I managed to find it - I rarely use parole anyway :)
<Unit193> Good tester. ;)
<elfy> ochosi: are we planning to not have the action plugin on the panel at all now?
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> can you link that parole bug to the upstream xfce bug? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9904
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9904 in General "Notification icon plugin not working" [Normal,Needinfo]
<bluesabre> there is some launchpad wizardry that allows some folks to do it
<elfy> I'll do it
<elfy> bluesabre: it's already been done :)
<ali1234> anyone can link bug reports
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> I'm just not paying attention
<ali1234> actually just pasting the URL in a comment is enough now
<bluesabre> oh, that's handy
<bluesabre> I've never made it work correctly when trying to link other bugs
<ali1234> the proper way is click "also affects distribution"
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that's a misleading name
<ali1234> yes
<knome> bluesabre, boo! :)
<bluesabre> hey knome!
<elfy> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/menuchange/+merge/208763
<knome> hallo
<knome> oh gosh ;)
<elfy> if you get chance - if not I'll ping someone else 
<knome> i'll finish off this work thing, can look after that
<elfy> ok - cheers :)
<bluesabre> so, others that are familiar with python, suggestions? https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bug/1280607
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1280607 in Catfish "Case insensitive search for non english file names doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> is that a general python problem?
<ochosi> or some utf8 crap?
<bluesabre> not sure
<bluesabre> I haven't had a chance to debug it yet myself, but it seems... odd
<ochosi> indeed
<jjfrv8> knome, I was hoping at the meeting yesterday we could take a vote on whether to add Settings Manager to Favorites in whisker-menu
<jjfrv8> how do you feel about it?
<knome> jjfrv8, in addition to it being in the bottom-right?
<GridCube> i also would like that the USC be in the favs
<jjfrv8> yeah, cause it seems kinda awkward to point them to an icon in the docs
<jjfrv8> GridCube, USC is going to be there
<GridCube> right :)
<knome> jjfrv8, i don't have a strong opinion on that, so best talk with ochosi
<knome> i mean i'm fine with adding it
<ochosi> jjfrv8: it's a bit of a duplication, but if you think it makes sense, we can put it there
<jjfrv8> knome, I was also considering adding the icons next to the text in the most recent MR I put up last night. I'll past it in a minute
<jjfrv8> *paste
<knome> jjfrv8, sure
<GridCube> there is also the logout thing that used to be on the top panel, will it be reinstated?
<ochosi> nope
<GridCube> :) ok
<elfy> that will need to be in release notes then
<knome> ochosi, i guess we should discuss that after b1
<ochosi> knome: discuss what?
<knome> the panel layout in general, but more specifically, how people have seen whiskermenu and the action buttons
<knome> (and possibly workspace switcher)
<jjfrv8> knome, maybe put the icons next to the text in the last sentence here: http://imagebin.org/296326
<knome> jjfrv8, absolutely
<jjfrv8> k
<knome> though, hmm
<knome> that's a tricky one
<knome> that makes me think we should *maybe* do that for other places as well
<knome> but i can definitely agree it's a good idea to add them there
<jjfrv8> not an issue if ppl switch to a different icon theme?
<knome> well that's their issue... :)
<knome> they can change the whiskermenu app icon as well
<knome> and then it isn't the xubuntu logo
<jjfrv8> works for me, then
<jjfrv8> I'd also like to add a paragraphs on panel customization and MenuLibre to the settings-preferences chapter. how's that sound?
<knome> at least the menulibre one is planned already
<knome> and panel customization doesn't sound bad either
<jjfrv8> will work on that this weekend.
<knome> thanks
<knome> slickymasterWork, ^
<jjfrv8> bbl
<GridCube> ochosi, did you catch my ping yesterday?
<knome> zequence, you ready? :)
<zequence> knome: Yep
<knome> so, umh
<knome> micahg?
<knome> ochosi?
<knome> bluesabre?
<knome> what's the exact scope of bug fixes you are committing for xfce?
<knome> i mean, will you keep on landing "any" bug fixes, or just security?
<zequence> I will be commited to fixing bugs, with severity in mind (prioritizied by need and the time I have to spare - but always fixing critical ones) - by working with upstream. I implement patches - others do the actual fix
<knome> okay
<knome> i'm considering the current situation with xfce development, and that doesn't really look active
<knome> i mean,
<knome> you might end up writing all the bug fixes yourself
<knome> i'm also considering possible problems with gtk2 stuff getting outdated, and xfce depending on that
<knome> while the gtk2 packages aren't the xfce core, it is *possible* that some issues come up with those, and i don't who else is giving support/developing those in 5 years
<zequence> I don't expect that much of the DE stuff will much change past the first three years
<zequence> I think the Ubuntu five year support plan is mostly focused on servers
<zequence> Am I wrong?
<knome> sure, but if you promise 5 years support for ubuntu studio desktop, you're alone the last 2 years anyway
<zequence> There are kernel updates, and those can change stuff. But other than that, I don't believe much will change - of course, something could
<knome> i'm not saying xubuntu couldn't extend to 5 years
<knome> i'm considering any regression bugs
<knome> or security holes that weren't found before
<knome> or anything that relates to any of that
<knome> applications not supporting that old libs, etc.
<zequence> I don't think Xubuntu would find it difficult technically to have 5 years support, but the question is rather - is it something Xubuntu users want?
<zequence> I think Ubuntu Studio users might want that, all though only a small percentage
<knome> from my point of view, it's a question whether the developers are committed to 5 years
<knome> i mean, of course it matters if users want it or not
<knome> but even if users want it,
<knome> and we say we support for 5 years,
<knome> actually *doing* the bugfixes and stuff requires that developers are committed for that support length
<knome> if after 3 years there is a big bug in 14.04, and the xubuntu team is much stronger than now with many developers, i have nothing against landing a bugfix for that
<knome> even if we only "promised" 3 years of support
<knome> (saying, it's not a big issue to make it *LONGER* in the future)
<knome> all those reasons i just laid out were the reasons why we settled on 3y support for 12.04, and any of it hasn't changed since, for us at least
<zequence> We're also considering a PPA for backports that otherwise would be next to impossible to get in otherwise
<zequence> We have a different situation to DE based flavours
<knome> as i understand it, that wouldn't count as "support" as defined/"required" by canonical for the LTS support length
<knome> but it's fair considering the composition of your flavor
<knome> so maybe support LTS for 3y, but promise PPA updates for 2 more years
<zequence> What our users want is a platform that is stable, and works for years. Once you get to know it, you like to stay with it
<knome> (as time permits)
<knome> sure, i understand that
<zequence> I was intending to make this release of Ubuntu Studio DE agnostic, making it possible for users to select the DE during install. Haven't had the time to complete that ubiquity stuff yet
<knome> yeah, i remember that
<zequence> I'm doing things in the order of importance right now, and that is still a possiblity
<zequence> Even after FF
<knome> in a way, it makes defining the support length even harder
<knome> do you plan to support *any* installable DE for 3/5 years?
<knome> or basically just the "studio" packages?
<zequence> I suppose in that perspective, it might seem a lot of work - only, it doesn't seem to be - if you look at the track record
<zequence> There's a theoretical POW and then there's a practical one
<micahg> knome: huh?   was I invited to something?
<knome> it's a big lottery.
<knome> you don't want to end up winning the wrong kind of jackpot...
<knome> micahg, yeah, impromptu. see the backlog
<zequence> We can end support at any time. If that is how it plays out
<knome> micahg, talking about US LTS support length vs xubuntu LTS support length
<knome> zequence, well that's not what you are supposed to do...
<knome> "we'll give support for 5 years" -- then don't
<micahg> knome: Xubuntu commits to High and Critical bug fixes and security fixes for 3 years
 * holstein +1 ^
<knome> micahg, i know. i've announced that
<micahg> and I'm happy to help with Xubuntu's part of that
<knome> micahg, studio is considering 5 years of support
<knome> micahg, and we're discussing if it's sane, and since they overlap with us quite a bit...
<holstein> part of what was great about going xfce at the time was being able to take advantage of the xubuntu upstream team support
<micahg> I know, I responded on their ML: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2014-February/005719.html
<zequence> One never knows what will happen in three years.
<zequence> Or in five
<zequence> But, one can assume
<holstein> well, we can assume both teams wont fade away in 3 years
<knome> zequence, well exactly... but promising 3 years is less of a gamble than 5
<knome> micahg, right, not following that list, but cool :)
<holstein> we can assume the ubuntustudio team wont get bigger than the xubuntu team in 3 and run out the last 2 
<micahg> can I pick up from backscroll in 3 hours or so, I'm working on a deadline for something
<holstein> i think if the xubuntu team finds 5 years a stretch, we should consider that
<zequence> holstein: Have you actually looked at what sort of bugs have been fixed for XFCE for the last LTS?
<knome> i think it would be weird that xubuntu, who kind of specialises in xfce, only promises 3 years,
<holstein> zequence: what is of note?
<holstein> zequence: what am i missing?
<knome> when US, who have a lot more packages to support, would extend the support of xfce to 5 years
<zequence> holstein: NOt a lot of packages has seen bug fixing. Only one past the relase of Precise, as far as I can tell, and that was the weather plugin
<zequence> But, I might be missing something
<zequence> So, please enlighten me, if I'm wrong
<holstein> zequence: im not following
<micahg> zequence: with libav now in universe, that's a security burden as well (though shared with Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and Kylin)
<zequence> holstein: I'm saying, there's not much bug fixing happening even during the first three years
<zequence> For Ubuntu Studio I fixed two, for Precise
<knome> zequence, what micah said about debian xfce stuff is correct as well
<zequence> And I'm sure I could handle that sort of fixing, myself, when working with upstream
<knome> they only support xfce for 1-2 years
<holstein> zequence: sure.. then just say that on the site
<knome> so that would leave you 3-4 years alone
<micahg> zequence: with multimedia, you have a lot more security exposure than Xubuntu does
<knome> zequence, i'm not the one saying you shouldn't promise 5 years of support
<knome> zequence, i'm saying you should consider it carefully; we didn't do that, because we don't think it's sustainable
<knome> zequence, if you support the LTS for 5 years, you'll have, at one point, three LTS's to support at the same time.
<knome> that's a lot of maintaining work for xfce and multimedia packages
<knome> and potentially other dependencies
<knome> (at least for the oldest LTS of that bunch)
<holstein> im not a code contributor like that.. i cant gurantee being able to fix a bug or address one
<holstein> its really not up to me to put that burden on anyone when i cant take any of it on perononally
<knome> and as i've said for a few times, i don't think you can suddenly drop the LTS support length to 3y after committing to 5y
<knome> but you can always promise after 3y to extend the support if it looks viable, if you want
<knome> unofficially you can support 14.04 for 10 years if you wish
<knome> and unofficially you can promise 20 but stop after 3.
<knome> you shouldn't, but there's more room to move there
<zequence> My judgement of the situation is that what worked for three years will continue to work for another two
<holstein> yeah.. theres nothing wrong, as i see it, saying its officially 3, and as resources allow, supporting it more
<knome> zequence, sure, that's your decision
<knome> zequence, i just wanted to bring my opinion to the table for consideration
<zequence> We could let our users know how the support works, by telling them that the first three years Xubuntu team is actively supporting the DE, and the last two years the Ubuntu Studio team is doing it
<knome> that would be fair for the users
<holstein> also, nothing wrong with saying that in 3 years
<holstein> "since support is ending upstream, and the team is growing, we will do our best to extend another 2 years the support of..."
<knome> i guess one more comment
<knome> since xubuntu is supporting xfce less than US, some questions might arise from that
<knome> we will answer those questions honestly; that we don't think it's doable for us to support xfce for more than 3 years
<knome> whether that in turn puts on more pressure on US, i don't know
<knome> but it's good to acknowledge that this isn't just a technical discussion
<knome> or just a technical decision
<zequence> It's just a different view point. In reality, if bugs happen, they will - until someon fixes them
<zequence> Support means a lot of things
<knome> absolutely
<zequence> I'm only going to be commited to fixing bugs, especially severe ones
<knome> yes, ack
<zequence> It might happen that some upgrade of a package would leave Xubuntu not booting at all
<knome> i'm not trying to convince you, don't understand me wrong
<zequence> Even during the first three years
<knome> i'm just wanting to discuss all the facts around it
<zequence> It's what can happen. And it might. But, the chances are, it won't
<ochosi> GridCube: if by your ping you mean the one where you said the shimmer PPA fixed it, yes :)
<GridCube> right thats what i meant
<GridCube> :)
<zequence> Just because you say you will support something for a lot of years doesn't mean the system will not break during that time.
<zequence> But, sure. I can see the point in how volotile it would be for one person to claim to support a bunch of DEs for a couple of years
<knome> and multimedia packages
<knome> and potentially other packages that the DEs support on
<knome> zequence, have you had a vote about this with your team?
<zequence> knome: As an actual vote, no. Since our team is so small, and lacking of technical knowledge, I leave it to a argumentative discussion on our mail list
<zequence> IÃ'd rather we did have a larger team, where one could make use of such systems
<zequence> I'll consider proposing to reduce to three years, but if we do five years, will inform our users of how that works
<knome> zequence, for me that sounds a sensible thing to do
<knome> zequence, thanks for listening and taking the time, and feel free to ask if you have anything on your mind
<zequence> IThe thing abou, especially audio production machines, is that you might have the same system, without internet connection (cause you don't want it), for 5 years - it's probably a tiny little group in all of humanity, using Ubuntu Studio for that, but it's a noble bunch
<zequence> Now and then, you might want to update it
<zequence> ..and you fear it each time
<knome> yeah, though if you're not connected to the internet, you can keep on using any release for as long as you want
<knome> without anything being prone to breaking
<knome> *even without any support promise*
<zequence> that's true. But, each point release has new security updates
<knome> actually,
<zequence> and other bug fixes
<zequence> WeÃ're ÃÂ¥articularly concerned about the kernel
<knome> with 3 years of support you already have .5 point releases
<zequence> At this point, Trusty is not looking very good. The kernel has some pretty bad bugs in it
<zequence> I might not install Trusty for a production machine until point release .1 or .2
<knome> yep, i see many people doing that, especially on work machines
<slickymasterWork> knome, jjfrv8 +1 on adding Settings Manager to WhiskerMenu's favorites and on adding the icons next to the text in the docs
<knome> yep, just wanted you to ack he's working on it :)
 * elfy wonders what the default favourites are
<knome> elfy, "anything that is mentioned on the slide"
<slickymasterWork> there's the issue that that might cause us to review them entirely so it would also be added through all chapters/section as needed so uniformity is kept 
<knome> "the issue"? :)
<knome> oh, right
<knome> i think it would be fine to do that just on that spot, at least for now
<knome> we can extend later
<knome> the point is, those icons do not have a description visible at all times
<knome> things in the menu do
<slickymasterWork> well, it's sort of an issue, since I think it's something that sooner or later will have to be addressed 
<knome> well then we should do that
<knome> but it's not something that's release-critical
<elfy> knome: so how do I see what's on the slide without running an image
<slickymasterWork> agrre, but either way a review should be made to check if that is/will be needed elsewhere
<knome> elfy, bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu; cd ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu; ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<slickymasterWork> s/agrre/agree
<knome> slickymasterWork, i don't think we have any other places where there is no label for an icon
<knome> slickymasterWork, so in that way, it's logical even if we only add the icons in that place
<slickymasterWork> I'll go through them, just to double check
<knome> thanks:)
<slickymasterWork> I'll also ping jjfrv8 to see if he needs any help on the panel customization and MenuLibre paragraphs
<knome> nice
<knome> thanks for taking care
<slickymasterWork> will you be around tonight?
<knome> less, but will be at least later
<elfy> knome: so it's going to have mugshot and menulibre in there as well?
<knome> astraljava is coming here in some time :)
<slickymasterWork> I thought on nagging you about the integration of NewDocs in the doc team
<knome> elfy, actually, sorry
<knome> elfy, anything that's on the default apps slide
<slickymasterWork> but we can postponed that
<knome> slickymasterWork, well i'm around for some time now :)
<elfy> and where was all this decided?
<slickymasterWork> shell we hope to #ubuntu-newdocs then
<slickymasterWork> s/hope/hop
<knome> elfy, i had a PM with ochosi. it'll land for b2, then we can reconsider that as a team, if needed
<elfy> mmm
<knome> elfy, do you have any requests for those?
<knome> i mean, it does make sense to have the things we advertise in the slideshow
<knome> and doesn't feel like there is anything else we should list
<knome> or if there is, maybe we should add them to the slideshow as well :)
<elfy> not really
<knome> oh right,
<knome> terminal also
<knome> in the favs
<knome> and help
<knome> that's the two things not on the default apps slide, but on favs
<knome> the docs startpage gets redone, so we don't need the x website/contribute to x either
<elfy> mostly what is annoying me is that people have to work out that one of the icons on the menu - which you don't see unless you actually go to is it - is where you can actually turn the machine off, or logoff 
<elfy> rather than have it on the panel
<knome> elfy, yeah, as i said to ochosi, we should discuss this in a meeting
<elfy> but it won't affect me 
<knome> but he had a fair point, the panel layout proposal was up an in the wiki for a long time...
<elfy> yea - and I can understand that - I do get extremely annoyed at 75% of -team never bothering to test 
<knome> yep
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> at the end of the day - whatever you decide is default won't last here any longer than the first install ;)
<ochosi> that's the same with pretty much everyone i think
<ochosi> and one reason why i chopped down the panel layout
<elfy> so I'll just +0 it when it turns up as a discussion
<schproodle> need to file a bug for Window Manger settings -- where to go please
<elfy> ubuntu-bug xfwm4-settings
<elfy> but is it a bug :)
<knome> window mangler
<knome> ;)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<schproodle> I don't know a bug from bud really
<knome> the bug is buggy
<schproodle> Testcase #12-#17 in 'Check...Advanced Options'; select Advanced tab; 'Wrap works space' NEVER happens for dragged window or monse pointer.
<elfy> I'll not discuss bud
<knome> elfy, not even bud light?
<knome> :P
<schproodle> where is bud?
<slickymasterWork> well, a corona icon could/should be added to the favorites, providing ochosi agrees with it ;)
<knome> ;)
<schproodle> seems more like a Moroni than Peroni, in this case
<ochosi> peroni - per noi?
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: if you think there's something wrong with that testcas, the you can fil a bug against it over here -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
<schproodle> slickymasterWork, The testcase is clear enough -- just that Wrap works space' NEVER happens for dragged window or monse pointer. Seems like it might be bug eh.
<knome> ochosi, do we have multiple workspaces by default?
<elfy> 2 I thought 
<schproodle> yes 2 but no 'switcher' in sight eh
<knome> schproodle, nope.
<elfy> how many do we need ?
<knome> more then one if we're testing whether they work ;)
<schproodle> buds? a few anyway...
<elfy> must be thinking about something else then - I switch by clicking, or mouse wheel, or middle button on desktop
<elfy> though I'm not thinking very straight either lol
<knome> elfy, drag windoe title to the "monitor" edge and over, and it should wrap to the next workspace
<elfy> yep
<elfy> just dragged you all the way to desktop 2
<knome> lol, thanks
<schproodle> right, shoulda except it failed on my test in vm
 * elfy boots his
<elfy> and tries to remember which one isn't 640x480
<elfy> really should sort them out lol
<knome> hah
<knome> ;)
<elfy> really want a faster machine too 
<elfy> not being Unit193 
<elfy> no dragging in there
<knome> yep
<knome> so maybe it is a bug in the testcase indeed
<elfy> at least in the live session
<elfy> well - when I wrote it - it would have worked or I'd not have written it like that
<elfy> so maybe a change in what happens
<elfy> I'll add it to the -qa list 
<knome> bbl :)
<elfy> and it would have worked a short while back - I've been testing testcases before I call
<elfy> cya later knome 
<schproodle> Bug #1286239
<ubottu> bug 1286239 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "'Wrap works space' NEVER happens for dragged window or monse pointer." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286239
<elfy> you've created the bug against the xfce package instead of testcases :)
<schproodle> oh, ^monse^mouse ;)
<GridCube> should i add to the mugshot bug report that the only available option for a new avatar is to choose from the non-existent presets? while before you could also search for a picture yourself?
<schproodle> I don't think it is a testcase problem
<GridCube> or should i make a new bug report for that?
<elfy> schproodle: works fine on this machine 
<schproodle> elfy, didn't work for my test anyhow.
<elfy> GridCube: what bug is it?
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mugshot/+bug/1284720
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284720 in Mugshot "mugshot fails at attempt to change avatar" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> GridCube: that's what toz was saying
<GridCube> no
<elfy> it's also not picking up camera here - but that's a dependency
<elfy> I guess adding information doesn't hurt at all - saves bluesabre asking in here :)
<GridCube> elfy, http://goput.it/ph99.png
<elfy> yea - I see that behaviour here too
<GridCube> see the "examinar" allows you to search for a picture by hand, thats not available in 14.04
<elfy> yep
<GridCube> i think thats not related with the empty preset folder
<elfy> do a new one - I can me too it
<GridCube> as after making one, and the crash goes away, there is still no examinar option
<GridCube> alright
<schproodle> elfy, reviewing the exchanges above.  Should I have file the but somehow for the testcase?
<schproodle> file the bug
<elfy> bluesabre: you want a bug report for the camera not working in mugshot - can't remember what needed to installed that wasn't
<schproodle> filed the bug
<elfy> schproodle: probably - we'll get someone to move it 
<schproodle> ok. sorry, I don't understand. where would I move it?
<elfy> you can't :)
<GridCube> elfy, https://bugs.launchpad.net/mugshot/+bug/1286243
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1286243 in Mugshot "Mugshot in Trusty Dailies doesnt have a search option for avatars" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> done
<GridCube> kk
<brainwash> GridCube: specific image?
<GridCube> brainwash, ?
<elfy> brainwash: the option to find one from files you've got locally
<GridCube> ah, i meant like random images locally
<brainwash> it's missing?
<GridCube> yes
<brainwash> that's strange :)
<brainwash> I cannot test it right now, but I remember that you can select different sources to select an image
<brainwash> or do you mean the stock images?
<slickymasterWork> elfy: do you want me to pick up bug 1286239 or are you doing it?
<ubottu> bug 1286239 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "'Wrap works space' NEVER happens for dragged window or mouse pointer." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286239
<elfy> not now you can't 
<brainwash> now you can't? bug alert! :D
<slickymasterWork> ?! it's not assigned yet :P
<slickymasterWork> even though it's raised against the wrong package :P
<brainwash> GridCube: just changed my profile picture, so it's working fine here
<elfy> missed a bunch of that 
<slickymasterWork> not much elfy 
<elfy> schproodle: you know you fail resize tests on bug 1227057 - do you actually have a big enough vm drive for it to offer the option? 
<ubottu> bug 1227057 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Resizing partitions not an option" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227057
<elfy> because if you have for instance a default 8Gb vbox drive - then it won't do it afaik - as the minumum space req'd is ~5Gb - so you'd need at least twice that
<slickymasterWork> elfy: edited bug 1286239 description and affected package
<ubottu> bug 1286239 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "'Wrap works space' NEVER happens for dragged window or mouse pointer." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286239
<slickymasterWork> so it's all yours :P
<elfy> slickymasterWork: did you see me say don't bother with the testcase?
<elfy> and how do you edit a package?
<slickymasterWork> nopes
<elfy> in a bug ... 
<elfy> oh you haven't you just added testcases 
<slickymasterWork> right
<slickymasterWork> there's no editing in packages, what I meant is that I edit against what it's filled
<elfy> yea - I thought you meant you'd removed xfce4 package :)
<slickymasterWork> but you were saying no to bother with the testcase...
<elfy> yea
<slickymasterWork> I won't, but any reason in particular?
<elfy> you probably didn't see me say ... 
<elfy> that I was more concerned with menulibre :)
<elfy> slickymasterWork: I'm not sure that I'm going to be doing as many tests next cycle 
<elfy> and I'll not be calling for that one again this cycle
<slickymasterWork> I'll go back in time, just give a sec to catch a wormhole
<slickymasterWork> humm just hope that it will not mean the end of -qa
<elfy> only package stuff I shall be calling this cycle left is networking and the addition stuff at the bottome
<elfy> oh no - not at all :)
<slickymasterWork> elfy: bottome?!
<elfy> not sure we really need to be testing all of these things each cycle 
<elfy> bottom of http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases
<slickymasterWork> well, with some I do agree with you
<elfy> I'll wrap up the trusty cycle in a mail with -team - then start a discussion that no-one will reply to about whether to do the same amount
<elfy> wait a week for no replies then decide on my own
<slickymasterWork> I'll try to nag you
<elfy> lol
<slickymasterWork> as far as tests done goes, besides a few exceptions there aren't many -qa members listed either on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/testers or http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/testers
<elfy> no
<elfy> nor -testers
<slickymasterWork> exactly
 * elfy has list of image testers
<elfy> not done the package one - but there will be one
<elfy> and a blog post
<elfy> then again whoever's xpl might want to do things differently - who knows
<elfy> keyboard got marked as high - that's hopeful :)
<slickymasterWork> eh eh eh I'm not facing that one 
<elfy> I started to look to see if I could replicate with a french layout - then I couldn't do the password properly lol - gave up on that as a bad move :p
<schproodle> elfy, How big should the drive be?  Vbox seems to dfault to 8Gb. The size is dynamically expanded as I understand beyond that.
<elfy> yes - but as 1 install 'wants' 6.1Gb - you'll not fit 2 into 8Gb :)
<pleia2> I think the installer still wants 4.something free for an install
<schproodle> elfy,  regarding your comment: 'resize tests on bug 1227057'
<ubottu> bug 1227057 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Resizing partitions not an option" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227057
<pleia2> eek, 6.1 :)
 * pleia2 behindthetimes
<elfy> pleia2: yea - it was 5ish a short while back
<elfy> schproodle: yes - if you're trying to fit a quart in a pint pot - it'll not work :)
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: you don't have to go necessarly with the dynamic allocation option, I always opt for the fixed size option
<elfy> I always go for dynamic - but I've got a vm with 20GB space I use for resize testing
<schproodle> ok, how big then should the vm have?  Fixed size OK.  I have lotsa space
<elfy> ^^
<slickymasterWork> schproodle: in my case I always go for 22 GB fixed size disk, 10 GB for /, 10 for /home and 2GB for swap
<schproodle> what does ^^ signify eh
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> to read what someone posted previously
<schproodle> ok
<schproodle> how big is too big?
<schproodle> slickymasterWork, fixed size may be faster according to vbox dialog
<slickymasterWork> when you start to allocate more space than what the host needs, then you're getting into a too nig situation
<elfy> well - no idea what the maximum is 
<slickymasterWork> I'm under that impression 
<slickymasterWork> s/nig/big
<elfy> but if you're just testing then if you had~20 that's sufficient
<schproodle> will do.  the side by each installation of course means the existing drive needs to be re-partiioned or resized. 
<elfy> yes - if the drive is big enough you get the autoresize option
<schproodle> yes
<schproodle> the dynamic allocation is therefore irrelevant as the installer does not know aboutthat
<slickymasterWork> regarding that, no schproodle 
<elfy> yea - of no importance - the drive can be as big as the max originally set 
<elfy> it works fine :)
<Noskcaj> micahg, Any chance you could sponsor bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282734 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1282734 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Please update xubuntu-artwork" [Wishlist,In progress]
<micahg> Noskcaj: sure, just not right now, maybe this weekend, more likely Monday
<Noskcaj> ok, thanks
<micahg> feel free to poke me over the weekend
<brainwash> bluesabre, ochosi: should xubuntu/mugshot ship some preinstalled avatar pictures?
<brainwash> like windows, gnome 3,.. do
<elfy> sounds like a wonderful reason :p
<elfy> knome: you had chance to look at that merge thingy
<brainwash> how about a contest to get a nice selection of stock profile pictures? :D
<brainwash> for 14.10
<elfy> sounds like an idea to me 
<elfy> but I'll still use Red Cap :p
<brainwash> btw bug 1016932 got fixed
<ubottu> bug 1016932 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Setting user as administrator doesn't give him sudoing rights" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016932
<brainwash> now we need to test if it actually works
<elfy> didn't even know about it
<brainwash> judging by the bug report heat level almost no one did
<elfy> yea
<brainwash> and bug 1185396 isn't noticeable anymore after apport gets disabled (final release)
<ubottu> bug 1185396 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_user_profiles_get_for_user()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185396
<elfy> yea - bit of a pita that - but it does the job then crashes
<Noskcaj> brainwash, There appear to be stock pictures already
<brainwash> Noskcaj: in xubuntu?
<Noskcaj> They might be from a different package, but i have about 20 pictures in mugshot's "stock" category
<brainwash> you have gdm installed?
<elfy> I just get a crash if I try to do anything with the avatar 
<brainwash> should get fixed soon
<elfy> saw that
<elfy> can't remember what needed installing to get the camera recognised or I'd check that 
<elfy> oh hang on ... 
<schproodle> elfy, auto resize intall goint as expected.  Sorry about those bug reports.
<elfy> oh nvm - forgot this one got an emergency re-install for a moment then lol
<brainwash> elfy: see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mugshot-dev/mugshot/trunk/view/head:/README
<elfy> schproodle: that's ok - I kept meaning to tell you when I saw you - then kept forgetting :)
<schproodle> elfy, I think I brought his up here but it was likely unintelligible due to my lack of understandinng.
<elfy> brainwash: thanks - got it 
<schproodle> elfy, do you not have access to my email?
<elfy> wut?
<schproodle> I guess that is private on launchpad.
<elfy> brainwash: though - saving and stuff with camera didn't actually do anything
<schproodle> You were waitin to see me eh.
<elfy> schproodle: if it is set to private - then no :)
<brainwash> elfy: :(
<elfy> schproodle: if it had been that important I would have edited your test results and made them passed and removed the bug
<elfy> I knew it wasn't a bug - or you'd have seen me trying to find out what was up
<elfy> brainwash: should save pic as .face ?
<schproodle> ok, I see your changes on another one. Thanks.
<brainwash> elfy: yes, but I never tried to generate a pic from cam
<elfy> mmm 
<brainwash> so something might be broken
<elfy> guess so 
<elfy> I'll report it now
<elfy> wonder if the gstreamer tools package shouldn't be optional though 
<elfy> odd - sets the pic in the mugshot app - but doesn't save as .face - nor obviously appear at lock screen
<elfy> parole resets volume on unlock ... 
<elfy> bug 1286312
<ubottu> bug 1286312 in mugshot (Ubuntu) "Camera option in mugshot not saving" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286312
<astraljava> Hey guys, gnome suggested to try light-locker on my saucy laptop instead of xscreensaver, so that I could easier suspend it when session is locked. My question is, how should xflock4 be utilized in unison?
<astraljava> Currently I have ctrl-alt-del set to fire up xflock4, but it doesn't do anything.
<elfy> astraljava - hi :)
<brainwash> astraljava: call it directly with "light-locker-command -l"
<astraljava> brainwash: That's what I thought, too, but what happens to automatic locking? There's no screensaver settings in settings manager anymore.
<astraljava> elfy: Hi there. :)
<brainwash> if light-locker is running in the background, it will launch automatically on suspend/hibernate (dbus activation)
<brainwash> similar to gnomer-screensaver
<brainwash> on top of that, recent versions should lock the screen upon the screen blanking
<brainwash> a gui to change some settings is available too -> https://launchpad.net/light-locker-settings
<astraljava> brainwash: Ahh... cool, thanks!
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, ping
<Noskcaj> do the CVEs affect 0.3.2? If so, does that patch at http://paste.ubuntu.com/7012588/ fix it?
<astraljava> Unit193: Did you know of a way to get xfce4-terminal tab respond quicker from ssh timeout when connection was lost? gnome said you might.
<Unit193> astraljava: I'm having problems parsing what you said, but were you looking for ServerAliveInterval ?
<brainwash> how do I install an additional package from within a program? my current approach would be to spawn a shell and run apt-get
<brainwash> bug 1270090
<ubottu> bug 1270090 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "time-admin can not install ntp" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270090
<Noskcaj> brainwash, USC, LSC, synaptic
<brainwash> time-admin requires synaptic an gksudo to install ntp, but we don't ship that anymore
<brainwash> isn't there some lightweight solution?
<brainwash> some update-manager magic?
<Noskcaj> probably
<brainwash> on top of that, I'm not even sure if the ntp is still recommended
<brainwash> the ntp daemon
<ali1234> brainwash: package-kit
<ali1234> !info packagekit
<ubottu> packagekit (source: packagekit): Provides a package management service. In component main, is extra. Version 0.8.10-2ubuntu2 (saucy), package size 304 kB, installed size 1160 kB
<ali1234> you just request that a package be installed on dbus
<ali1234> the service does all the rest
<slickymaster> jjfrv8, ping if you want me to do anything, or help you, with the panel customization and MenuLibre paragraphs
<elfy> slickymaster: you can have a look at this for me at some point - that'd be helpful :) https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/menuchange/+merge/208763
<slickymaster> on it elfy 
<elfy> no rush - today will be fine :p
<slickymaster> lol
<elfy> or tomorrow or the day after ... 
<elfy> I'll not be syncing in any hurry
<slickymaster> better speed up then, there's just a few hours left until this day last stroke
<elfy> lol - I'm off soon 
<elfy> been sitting here most of the day 
<slickymaster> I'll drop a review there
<elfy> ok cheers slickymaster :)
<elfy> cya slickymaster 
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, thanks for the offer. I'll holler if I get stuck but I don't think there should be that much work involved.
<slickymaster> ok jjfrv8 
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: I'm going through the docs just to double check for any occurrences where the xub icon might be inserted like you did in you MP: http://imagebin.org/296326
<jjfrv8> you mean places where it isn't now but we want it?
<slickymaster> yes, jjfrv8 
<slickymaster> I don't expect them to exist but no harm will come just for double checking
<jjfrv8> good deal
<jjfrv8> I know there are lots of (xub logo)->Settings Manager references and I'm wondering about the best way to handle that
<jjfrv8> I thought maybe...
<jjfrv8> something like the disclaimer we have about Thunar in Ch. 3...
<jjfrv8> we'll mention where the icon is on the menu and then say "from here on out, we're just going to call it "Settings Manager"
<jjfrv8> what do you think?
<jjfrv8> what I mean is, we'll keep it like this: http://imagebin.org/296390 , but we will have explained up front that SM is the icon found at the bottom of the WM window
<jjfrv8> chow time. back later
<slickymaster> elfy, reviewed -> https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/menuchange/+merge/208763
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: agree with that. I think that's a sane approach 
<slickymaster> let's us see what knome and Unit193 think about it
<Unit193> >_>
<Unit193> What's it look like now?
<slickymaster> now there are quite a few (xub logo)->Settings Manager references that could be dropped
<slickymaster> elfy, just added the 'Needs fixing' tag to your MP, due to that line 7 in the Xchat testcase
<Unit193> Isn't there a settings manager button in Whisker?
<slickymaster> yes, and SM will be added to the whisker's favorites
<slickymaster> better putted, there's the SM icon in whisker
<Unit193> So it's still there, and all that is correct...
<slickymaster> what is Unit193?
<Unit193> (xub logo)->Settings Manager
<slickymaster> yes, but that's not the point
<Unit193> Oki.
<slickymaster> the point is wether we could drop a few of those (xub logo)->Settings Manager
<slickymaster> through out the docs
<slickymaster> something like jjfrv8 said:
<slickymaster> 14:30  jjfrv8: something like the disclaimer we have about Thunar in Ch. 3...
<slickymaster> 14:30  jjfrv8: we'll mention where the icon is on the menu and then say "from here on out, we're just going to call it "Settings Manager"
<Unit193> I saw that, but don't much see the point as to why.  Sure we could, but it's not really taking up space and forces consistency.
<slickymaster> I don't think that it would result in a drop of consistency and OTOH I think it would make it more... hmmm
<slickymaster> let try to find the right qualifier
<slickymaster> +me
<Unit193> I didn't see the reason *why* though, so may be missing something.
<slickymaster> less distracting in reading termns
<slickymaster> erms
<slickymaster> igh
<slickymaster> terms
 * Unit193 checks on slickymaster.
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> no need
<slickymaster> I'm still trying to explain you what I'm trying to mean bit I lack the words
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, iirc, knome preferred not to add settings manager to Favorites
<slickymaster> and typing something with my mind in another thing results in that
<jjfrv8> that's why I'm a little concerned about having to point ppl to an icon
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: I was under the impression that we wasn't realy inclined in either possibilities
<slickymaster> let me check that
<jjfrv8> I'll have to go back and read it again
<knome> i don't mind either way.
<knome> you should be in touch with ochosi about the final decision
<slickymaster> you could have been faster knome http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/02/28/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t13:47
<slickymaster> :P
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> knome: not sure if already had the chance to catch up with the backlog, but when you do, what do you think about jjfrv8 idea on eventually dropping some of the (xub logo)->Settings Manager
<jjfrv8> my memory's not so good :/
<knome> let me quickly go through it.
 * slickymaster will have a smoke in the meanwhile
<jjfrv8> no, not to drop them. To leave them but explaining that there's really no "Settings Manager" entry, it's the icon we're referring to
<slickymaster> oh, so I completely misunderstood your idea jjfrv8 
<slickymaster> don't get me wrong Unit193, I know that the docs are meat to everyone entering the xubuntu ecosystem, but some times I can't shake the feeling that all those logos make the text somewhat childish
<slickymaster> and please don't take the term childish literally
<slickymaster> s/meat/meant :P
<slickymaster> but I'll drop it
<knome> we might be solving a non-problem
<jjfrv8> so anyway... if we say something like "when we say (xub logo)->Settings Manager, we're referring to that little icon"...
<jjfrv8> then we leave all the current references as is...
<jjfrv8> and if SM eventually makes it into Favorites, we only have to remove one sentence.
<knome> we could change it to "(logo)->(settings_icon) Settings Manager
<jjfrv8> that's okay too
<knome> afair, they are entities in the xubuntu.ent file. it's easy enough to change them
<knome> even backa forth a bit, and test different options
<knome> *back and forth
<slickymaster> is the settings' icon file already in the entities file?
 * slickymaster checks
<knome> probably not, but it's also easy enough to add it
<knome> we need to add it for the panel introduction section anyway
<jjfrv8> no, but I've found the 16px versions of all four
<jjfrv8> and was going to add them to entities
<slickymaster> no it isn't, it'll have to be added
<slickymaster> presently just the packages and the key icons are there
<Unit193> Ok, well I haven't used whisker enough to know what's located where.
<Unit193> slickymaster: That may be the case, but we're mostly using words with a little visual aid, at least IMO.
<slickymaster> Unit193 and you're right. The problem is in me not in the docs per si
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: the CVEs affect all known versions of catfish, and that patch should fix it for the same
<Noskcaj> ok. thanks.
<Noskcaj> D you have any idea how i'd go about writing tests for catfish, mugshot, etc? At least enough to stop me making uploads that break things
<bluesabre> we could probably make some simple autopilot tests
<bluesabre> but I personally recommend having a vm for debian and ubuntu, making snapshots before installing a test package, and reverting that snapshot as needed
<bluesabre> that's how I struggle through packaging most of the time
<Noskcaj> I lack the hardware to use VMs, so i was hoping there was some way to have built time/autopkg tests
<Noskcaj> I'll see if i can make a quick autopilot test though
<jjfrv8> howdy, bluesabre 
<bluesabre> you can also bounce packages off of me to test as needed
<bluesabre> hey jjfrv8, what's up?
<jjfrv8> do you have a version of MenuLibre available for testing that has the top-level and directory addition enhancements in it?
<bluesabre> I will in less than 24 hours
<bluesabre> are you around this weekend?
<jjfrv8> tomorrow, Sunday's doubtful
<bluesabre> actually, most of the fixes are present at lp:menulibre
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/master
<bluesabre> see revisions 107-113
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/master/changes
<bluesabre> still working out some bugs there, but you may be able to do some testing
<bluesabre> otherwise, I'll probably have a new release out tomorrow, time permitting
<jjfrv8> I'll probably wait for that then. I don't know how to install from master (don't think, anyway)
<bluesabre> yeah, you're better off that way
<bluesabre> if you get eager, you can do a user install with
<bluesabre> python3 setup.py install --user
<jjfrv8> if I get my chapter update done, I might experiment :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: hey, do you think that xubuntu should ship some stock profile pictures?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-01
<bluesabre> brainwash: yeah, I think that would be a nice value-add
<bluesabre> gotta go, bbl
<jjfrv8> knome, slickymaster, ochosi, others: proposed intro to the four icons in whisker: http://imagebin.org/296426
<jjfrv8> and then the modified way to refer to Settings Manager througout the rest of the docs: http://imagebin.org/296427
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, I have some photos of a folder full of ubuntu/xubuntu flyers on a table that I left to be handed out at a Permaculture group meeting this afternoon, I was supposed to attend but I injured myself & had to leave lol.
<pleia2> AussieDownUnder: doh! hope you get well soon
<pleia2> AussieDownUnder: feel free to send over some photos, I can share them
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, yep doh, thanks. Lesson learnt I'm not a Kangaroo & can't jump down shipping crates onto concrete.
<pleia2> haha! oh no :)
 * pleia2 seeks dinner
<AussieDownUnder> I only just had lunch
<AussieDownUnder> pleia2, check yol email yol
<Noskcaj> ali1234, Is there an exact xfwm4 patch for us to use yet?
<ali1234> there is no patch to the source code required, only build options
<ali1234> just build it with -DMONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP
<Noskcaj> oh yep, i remember now
<Noskcaj> Any other changes we should put with the merge?
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> i have a lot of patches but they're not really suitable for wide use
<ali1234> like bug 10631
<ubottu> bug 10631 in php4 (Debian) "php4: PHP4 couses apache and apache-ssl to crach on start with Bus error" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10631
<ali1234> xfce bug 10631
<Unit193> xfce 10631
<ubottu> xfce bug 10631 in Decorations "please support mwm hints completely" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10631
<ali1234> xfce bug 10625
<ubottu> xfce bug 10625 in General "Gtk3 menus are constrained by struts from all monitors." [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10625
<Noskcaj> Are any safe/worth it for after feature freeze?
<ali1234> for +1 you mean?
<Noskcaj> for me to add right now
<ali1234> well, not really
<Noskcaj> Although at this rate it won't be sponsored till unicorn anyway
<ali1234> they're all safe in my opinion
<ali1234> but they're quite ugly
<ali1234> i've got some trivial patches in other components that really should go in though
<ali1234> some were applied upstream, some not
<ali1234> the gtk3 bookmarks one should go in
<ali1234> and the notification window fix
<Unit193> Thunar already got the bookmark patch.
<ali1234> really? upstream?
<Unit193> No, Xubuntu.
<ali1234> oh, well xfce-places-plugin needs an identical patch
 * Noskcaj adds that to todo list
<ali1234> the xfnotifyd patch went in upstream but there's no new release
 * ochosi will be away for most of the weekend
<ochosi> jjfrv8: re:intro to whisker: looks nice, but you'll have to remove "switch users" as that's now identical to "lock screen" and hence won't be active/shown in whisker by default
<ochosi> ali1234: why would you say the mwm patch is ugly?
<ali1234> the mwm patch isn't ugly... but it is large
<ochosi> right
<ali1234> the struts patch is ugly
<ochosi> that one would be a nice-to-have
<ochosi> you could push the mwm patch to a user-repo on git.xfce
<ali1234> yeah i need to push all my work there
<ali1234> it's all on github
<ochosi> that way hopefully more people check it out and also nick will review it
<ali1234> pushing it would give me an excuse to post it on the ML again
<ochosi> exactly
<ochosi> i'll try to give it some testing too
<ochosi> that'll give me an excuse to reply to your post on the ML ;)
<ali1234> i've been using my stuff with your tabwin stuff merged since ages ago
<ali1234> no crashes or anything... but i never use alt-tab
<ochosi> right :)
<ochosi> the tabwin stuff seems to have a little oddity, sometimes when the mousecursor is outside the tabwin-window or not above a window-button there's still one highlighted
<ali1234> someone was asking about alt-tab the other day
<ochosi> haven't been able to hunt that one down yet
<ali1234> wanted it to show the full window instead of the border
<ochosi> odd
<ali1234> i said that would be hard due to window raising...
<ali1234> but i don't really know if there's another way
<ali1234> compositor could probably do it
<ochosi> it's certainly a different workflow
<ali1234> no, it's the same
<ochosi> then you practically don't need an alt-tab window anymore
<ochosi> cause you're looking only at windows, not at the icons
<ali1234> well, kind of
<ali1234> i dunno... i don't even use it
<ochosi> or: the icons are "in the way" and distracting
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> how do you switch then?
<ali1234> yeah i suppose you could look at it that way
<ali1234> i click on the task bar
<ochosi> yup, that makes sense too
<ali1234> i don't use keyboard short cuts at all
<Unit193> Win7 style! :P
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> for that it would be nice to get that "taskbar"-plugin into shape
<ali1234> i use them inside programs... like blender
<ali1234> i sent some fixes for it
<ochosi> oh, you did?
<ochosi> did they get merged/reviewed?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> i forgot about those actually
<ochosi> cool, will have to check it out again i guess
<ali1234> for multimonitor, it used to lose windows
<ali1234> it put the window on the taskbar on the monitor containing the middle pixel of the window
<ochosi> it definitely could use some theming improvements from what i remember from last using it
<Unit193> I like the idea of hacking xfwm to force old menus in gnome applications. :P
<ali1234> so if you moved it halfway off the screen it wouldn't show on any taskbar
<ochosi> hah, fun bug
<ali1234> it has a bug with desktop reshaping too
<ochosi> "great" way to hide your pr0n
<ali1234> if you just rearrange monitors normally then it works fine
<ali1234> but there's a bug in gnome-settings-daemon/unity-settings-daemon where if you have no monitors.xml it trashes your config and resets it to default
<ali1234> and for some reason the taskbar does not pick up this change
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> ali1234: btw, have you seen the way unity-greeter handles multimonitor setups?
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> (i.e. login-window follows mouse-focus)
<ochosi> do you like that?
<ochosi> i'm wondering what way we should go with the gtk-greeter
<ali1234> i do kind of like it
<ochosi> currently we're not really doing anything
<ali1234> but i think i would prefer to have a login window on every monitor
<ochosi> hm
<ochosi> mirrored?
<ochosi> or just another login-window?
<ali1234> just another window, if possible
<ochosi> mhm
<ali1234> or follow the mouse if not
<ali1234> see bug 1283615 screenshot
<ochosi> follow the mouse shouldn't be hard, as we can port that from unity-greeter
<ubottu> bug 1283615 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-settings-daemon trashes monitor config" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283615
<ali1234> that's what can happen when it follows the mouse and you don't get the monitor layout right
<ali1234> unity-greeter is written in vala...
<ali1234> i have three monitors... the one you can't see is an oculus rift
<ochosi> yeah i know
<ali1234> X decided that by default that monitor is in the middle
<ochosi> that looks empty
<ali1234> so when unity ignores the xorg.conf it defaults to putting the mouse and login on the middle screen, which you can't see without strapping on a headset
<ochosi> :/
<ali1234> it's really gnome/unity-settings-daemon that does this anyway, not the greeter itself
<ali1234> unity-greeter is the only one that loads up the settings daemon though
<ochosi> yeah, weird though, cause in general it seems to be an advantage to have such a daemon running in the greeter
<ali1234> you can disable modules of g-s-d, so you can disable the xrandr module and it won't mess the layout
<ali1234> it used to work this way, then someone decided to enable it
<ali1234> really though it should leave the config alone if it finds nothing at all
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> gotta run
<astraljava> Unit193: I'm not sure, but searching the net based on your suggestion, ClientAliveCountMax might do the trick. Thanks, I'll fiddle with the configuration.
<Unit193> Sure.
<elfy> bluesabre: there is no getting menulibre to do anymore than add a menu item in menuobre - not showing in any menus
<bluesabre> elfy, releasing a slew of fixes today
<elfy> given I can't get it to work - there's little chance of a testcase - nor getting anyone to test it
<elfy> oh lol - ok - was just leaving that message for you when you were about :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll try to get the release out early-ish today and getting it to the repos asap
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> I'll watch for it 
<bluesabre> thanks
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, since you're here, can you give me a sneek peek so I can start writing the docs paragraph? Will it only edit whiskermenu indirectly?
<jjfrv8> I mean will you see the old applications menu loaded in MenuLibre?
<bluesabre> ok, so xfce4-applications-menu, whisker-menu, and menulibre all use xfce4-applications.menu
<bluesabre> whisker menu has an option to show the menu hierarchy, but it is disabled by default
<bluesabre> so instead, it shows the menus ordered by name
<bluesabre> adding new applications should place them in their relative locations, but toplevel items (e.g. those not under a menu) will not be shown because of the way whisker-menu works
<bluesabre> or if they are, they'll likely be under Other
<bluesabre> New directories should be displayed by default
<bluesabre> but yes, the old menu is what will be seen in menulibre, to directly answer your question
<jjfrv8> thanks, that clears a lot up. I've checked the 'show menu hierarchy' and it doesn't seem to change anything.
<jjfrv8> so, for example, there is no way for someone to put a settings manager launcher, like Mugshot, onto whisker, even as a favorite?
<bluesabre> I believe that is the case, unless you make a new launcher with menulibre
<bluesabre> I'd suggested focusing efforts elsewhere for now, and wait until the next menulibre release
<bluesabre> *suggest
<jjfrv8> you mean a release after this weekend's?
<bluesabre> no, the one that will be released this weekend
<jjfrv8> ah
<jjfrv8> will do. Thanks again.
<slickymaster> afternoon guys
<jjfrv8> hey, slickymaster 
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: the paragraph with the four proposed icons looks great
<slickymaster> :) and afternoon jjfrv8 
<jjfrv8> :)
<elfy> hi slickymaster jjfrv8 
<jjfrv8> hey, elfy
<slickymaster> I think we should really go forward with the icons addition
<slickymaster> hey elfy 
<slickymaster> it seems I'm in england betwenn the fog and the rain :P
<slickymaster> * between
<jjfrv8> it's still like mid-winter here on March 1 :(
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, did you see where I'll be holding off on the MenuLibre paragraph awaiting bluesabre's new release?
<slickymaster> not yet jjfrv8, did you made a MP?
<elfy> slickymaster: piskie went and added a bunch of other stuff to that mp 
 * elfy couidn't stop him 
<slickymaster> elfy: I was going to ask about that
<slickymaster> o you want me to review your revision 283?
<elfy> :) at some point 
<slickymaster> will do
<jjfrv8> yes, I pushed a revision this morning, 150
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: going to pull it
<jjfrv8> it's got the panel config paragraph in it
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: I'll drop a few lines there
<jjfrv8> hmmm, the new icons in the images folder didn't get pushed. don't know how to make that happen.
<jjfrv8> bah, got called into work. maybe back later.
<brainwash> ali1234: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2208553
<schproodle> when apport reports a problem and then opens the browser with a login screen to launchpad, I am not sure what to do.
<schproodle> Well, I logged in eh
<bluesabre> ok, almost done with the menulibre update, will have it out later, bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-02
<jjfrv8> lyrely
<Unit193> Yes.
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, I managed to mess things up nicely so I deleted my MP and started over
<jjfrv8> I also remembered how to add files so the latest MP should have the new icon files
<jjfrv8> knome, slickymaster, so that MP is sill missing the menulibre section but otherwise should be pretty close to the final look
<jjfrv8> if you agree
<bluesabre> Unit193: finally fixed your annoying bug :)
<Unit193> Hah. :P
<Unit193> Did you profit?? ;)
<bluesabre> until you file another bug :D
<Unit193> So for a while then.
<bluesabre> thankfully
<Unit193> :P
<bluesabre> ok,  new menulibre release tomorrow.  I have just one more thing to fix, but I'm exhausted
<bluesabre> night everyone
<Unit193> Good night, bluesabre.
<Unit193> knome: Pooke: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-docs/new-appendix/+merge/207310 also your index refresh so I can propose the second half of my translations fixes?
<rebrec> hello
<rebrec> i am not sure to be on the right place, i have just installed xubuntu 13 and i think i have found a translation error in the Windows Manager Keyboard Settings Pannel. (the line with shortcut (<Alt>F7) is translated in the French version to "Maximiser la fenÃªtre" which means "Maximize Window" and, it should be "DÃ©placer la fenÃªtre" which means "Move Windows". also, the shortcut <Alt> F10 is not visible but works as expected 
<ochosi> rebrec: hm, that part of xubuntu is actually translated upstream at xfce
<ochosi> so you might wanna tell that to the french translation team in xfce
<rebrec> ha ok ochosi 
<rebrec> ok ochosi thanks i will try to look
<ochosi> rebrec: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/xfce/
<ochosi> in fact, this should be a more accurate link: https://www.transifex.com/signin/?next=/projects/p/xfwm4/viewstrings/#fr/xfce-4-10
<ochosi> you can check, maybe the translation has already been changed there and it just wasn't included yet in xubuntu 13.04/10
<rebrec> ok ochosi thanks for your help i will check that
<elfy> mmm whisker-menu takes a while to show anything on first use 
<ochosi> yup, depends a bit on the speed of your machine, but it's true
<ochosi> (on my 4yr old laptop it's quite instantaneous though)
<elfy> Pentium(R) CPU G870 with 4Gb Ram
<brainwash> but you get a nice spinbutton 
<elfy> I see that observation is as pointless as always
<brainwash> it takes some time to load the icons
<Unit193> Part of the reason I'll be sticking with Applications Menu.
<brainwash> unity's dash panel is also slow on first start
<elfy> I really couldn't give one for what happens with unity - not interested in the slightest
<brainwash> it's a common issue
<brainwash> if the menu program does not cache the icon files
<brainwash> elfy: and I do care about other desktop environments and enjoy all of them :)
<elfy> I don't
<elfy> they don't care
<Unit193> brainwash: LX(DE|Qt), E?
<brainwash> is the qt version already ready for use?
<Unit193> Nope. :P
<brainwash> I got all available DEs installed on my test machine
<brainwash> and almost all window managers, so my list of available sessions is endless :D
<Unit193> Wow, glad I'm not you. :P
<elfy> so am I ;)
<Unit193> Though, he's got some debugging skills I'd like.
<brainwash> just trying my best to support ubuntu :(
<elfy> yea - nothing wrong with that :)
<elfy> Unit193: +1 to that 
<ali1234> unity's dash is slow to open *every single time*
<ali1234> i can type faster than it can render the text
<brainwash> wow, unity really does not like you :P
<ali1234> it takes about 20 seconds to find the thing i'm trying to open
<ali1234> annoyingly the amazon rubbish loads in about 1 second
<ali1234> but searching the local drive takes forever
<brainwash> even with zeitgeist which tracks everything you do?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> this is with a clean install
<ali1234> i install it every few months to check if it has got any better
<ali1234> it certainly looks like it is getting worse though
<ali1234> unity-2d was always fast
<brainwash> it's not that slow for me
<brainwash> but contributing to xubuntu/xfce seems easier, so I just do this instead of bothering with unity/gnome/kde/..
<elfy> and I for one appreciate that
<elfy> but I really couldn't give one for Unity ;)
<Unit193> I for two do as well.
<brainwash> elfy: do you think that the settings manager menu entries should be directly accessible via appfinder?
<brainwash> bug 1286661
<ubottu> bug 1286661 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "gparted after instalation missing in menu and F2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286661
<elfy> not at all
<brainwash> whisker-menu does not find them either, the user has to open the settings manager
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> so we can mark the report as invalid, right?
<elfy> not got an issue with that tbh
<brainwash> the report is now informed where he can find gparted
<elfy> marked it
<brainwash> thanks
<elfy> added appfinder comment
<brainwash> I really think that "we" should clean up some of the launchpad reports, get rid of old ones, try to check if they are still valid
<brainwash> but that's not an easy fight :)
<ali1234> the same needs doing on xfce bugs
<brainwash> true
<bluesabre> alrighty, menulibre 2.0.2: https://launchpad.net/menulibre/2.0/2.0.2
<brainwash> nice :)
<brainwash> wow, that's a rather big changelog
<bluesabre> now we just have to wait for Noskcaj to upload :)
<bluesabre> yeah, started with fixing one bug, then found a bunch of other papercuts
<brainwash> sadly I haven't tested menulibre yet, I always tend to use the terminal to change the .desktop or menu files
<bluesabre> it works really well (now), you might find it handy
<bluesabre> it does everything alacarte is supposed to do, but actually work for each advertised feature
<brainwash> yes, I should at least take a look at the source and learn some more python this way :)
<bluesabre> :D
<brainwash> what's next? catfish or mugshot?
<brainwash> oh, a new catfish release has been uploaded just recently I think
<brainwash>  2014-03-01 
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, so do I need to extract that somewhere and then run that command you showed me the other night?
<bluesabre> jjfrv8, if you don't want to wait for the new package
<bluesabre> python3 setup.py install --user
<bluesabre> execute from ~/.local/bin/menulibre
<bluesabre> brainwash: working on mugshot next
<bluesabre> if you want to have some python fun, catfish: CatfishSearchEngine.py plays with generators, and thats one of the cooler python things
<brainwash> oh, I was about to have a look and try to fix the case bug
<brainwash> bug 1280607
<ubottu> bug 1280607 in Catfish "Case insensitive search for non english file names doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280607
<bluesabre> yeah, if you can figure that out, that'd be awesome
<bluesabre> actually, next thing I need to focus on is the greeter
<bluesabre> then mugshot
<brainwash> you are right, the greeter needs some love too
<jjfrv8> guess I'll just wait for the package :/
<elfy> hi zukeprime 
<zukeprime> hey!
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.2: https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/1.8/1.8.2
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<bluesabre> now to work on the ubuntu package for that
<bluesabre> brainwash, you'd be interested as well ^
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<elfy> bluesabre: do you think anyone in team would benefit from a page of package tests done with bugs?
<elfy> easy enough to go and look - but I've got it in a txt doc
<bluesabre> well, that would help me when I'm searching for things to fix
<elfy> k - it's up to date till the 1st
<bluesabre> sweet
 * elfy assumes he can attach to m/l ... 
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks a bunch!
<elfy> bluesabre: that assumption wasn't fatal :p
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<bluesabre> good news :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: looking into the AccountsService stuff for mugshot now
<elfy> bluesabre: I hope it's useful
<elfy> the qa trackers are not good for getting reports out at all 
<bluesabre> oh wow
<bluesabre> thats awesome!
<elfy> oh good :)
<ochosi> thanks elfy, great mail!
<elfy> oh good :)
<elfy> always good to work out something useful for people :p
<ochosi> elfy: if it isn't already, why not put it on a wiki-page?
<ochosi> then we could add some colors to it (e.g. green if all passed and no bugs, etc.)
<knome> i'd imagine it's easier to get that information out of the tracker than the wiki
<ochosi> and get a good overview of how things are standing and what we should try to fix
<knome> why not track them in a blueprint?
<ochosi> i'm fine with anything that is easy to keep an overview on 
<elfy> knome: the tracker is really not good to get reports out 
<knome> blueprints are some work for starters, but it's the best to track progress after that
<ochosi> blueprints have the disadvantage of not being colored or anything
<knome> since it tracks *actual* bug statuses
<knome> ochosi, you got to be kidding me.
<knome> ochosi, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-qa
<knome> ochosi, see the "related bugs" section
<knome> in what way are they not colored?
<elfy> and I'm not sure about using blueprints for it
<knome> i don't know why we wouldn't link bugs that we are about to fix in a blueprint.
<elfy> anyway - no-one would actually ahve it today if I'd not manually dug it all off the tracker for something I'm writing for the blog
<knome> yep
<knome> we can argue over it, but my opinion is that it would be best to track them in a blueprint
<elfy> mmm possibly - but which one :p
<knome> we can create a new one
<knome> t-betabugs
<knome>  [xubuntu-qa] Set up a list of applications we want to look at for automated package testing: INPROGRESS
<knome> that done?
<elfy> no
<knome> okay
<knome> elfy, if you are wondering why i have been dropping some -qa work items, that's because they exist as bugs already
<knome> and because both a bug and the work item create one item in the work items tracker, the percentages get skewed unless we only track one item per... item
<ochosi> Unit193: i have a somewhat different idea for xubuntu-core, since micahg had concerns, we could simply create a seed file that has everything except apps, something like xubuntu-noapps
<ochosi> Unit193: that way micahg's concerns would be addressed i presume and this would still help against ppl nagging "why do you ship $app?" or "why don't you ship $app?"
<ochosi> hmpf, light-locker-settings is still stuck in the upload-queue...
<knome> what's the bug for that?
<elfy> sorry - was afk 
<ochosi> i monitor it via https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+queue
<elfy> knome: ok - understood
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/light-locker-settings/+bug/1281536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1281536 in light-locker-settings "[needs-packaging] light-locker-settings" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<knome> elfy, yep, i thought it would be a non-problem, but to not look like we're arguing over it and dropping/adding/dropping/adding...
<elfy> knome: as far as a blueprint to track things - not sure whether to bother now - but we could do - might be worth doing it for Unreal Unicorn
<knome> yep
<knome> and we can do it for T if people think we need a better way to track
<elfy> might well be a useful thing though longterm
<knome> +them
<knome> it's a trivial thing to file the blueprint and add the bugs
<knome> just some work
<elfy> well up to now - no-one has even mentioned it 
<knome> then just get it approved for T, and it'll show up in the status tracker with the next update
<elfy> who approves blueprints - you for us? 
<knome> release team
<elfy> ok 
<knome> but they basically just approve what we ask them to
<elfy> oh hang on - our release team or the big one? 
<elfy> nvm - you answered me :p
<knome> yeah, the ~ubuntu-release
<knome> theoretically we should have a xubuntu member in that team
<knome> but since the situation is what it is... we're not obliged to :P
<elfy> brb 
<elfy> not sure if we need to worry for this cycle tbh - but it's probably a good tool to use 
<elfy> for the moment we could add them to the -qa blueprint if we really need to track them
<elfy> s/need/want
<knome> that works for me
<elfy> which does lol - one is do it now, the other is don't bother now :p
<knome> either, but was referring to the last comment, eg. put them under -qa
<elfy> ok - well I can do that - though I won't be amused at my 84% getting hammered :p
<knome> well
<knome> that's partly why i proposed a new blueprint
<knome> that would also make us able to track the progress of fixing bugs separately
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> ok 
<knome> and so far, the scope of -t-qa hasn't really been bugs we need to fix
<knome> but more focussed on the "meta" qa, eg. how to make the qa stuff run and what do we need to do on the background
<elfy> well yea - if we want qa to be fixing stuff then someone else can take over :)
<knome> heh
<elfy> right so how do we build a blueprint? Add dependency at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu ?
<knome> yep
<knome> and use the same naming scheme
<knome> and make me the approver, drafter/assignee can be -team
<elfy> xubuntu-t-bugs
<elfy> ?
<knome> worksforme
<knome> or bugfixes
<knome> but we can also just notice that in the title
<knome> the exact blueprint name doesn't really matter at all...
<elfy> don't think I did that right
<knome> heh
<knome> so what's the blueprint you see? :P
<elfy> register a blueprint and then fill that form in?
<elfy> then add as a dependency?
<knome> yep
<knome> i can do that if you think you are lost :P
<elfy> no I think I'm ok :)
<knome> ok, goodie :)
<knome> tell me when it's up and i'll take it up for accepting for trusty
<bluesabre> brainwash: let me know if this works for you: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mugshot-dev/mugshot/trunk/revision/77
<micahg> ochosi: that sounds good (re: xubuntu-core)
<micahg> but isn't it just Xfce without the apps?
<elfy> knome: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
<elfy> knome: needs adding to the main one still 
<elfy> once it's up I will work through the bug list and add them to it
<elfy> hi micahg 
<elfy> biab
<elfy> no I won't it's chucking it down ... 
<elfy> knew this was going to be a pita - need to check which are testcase bugs 
<elfy> sigh
<micahg> hi elfy 
<bluesabre> hey micahg, just around for a bit
<bluesabre> can you refresh xubuntu-meta?
<bluesabre> bbiab
<micahg> bluesabre: sure
<micahg> shoot, I meant to do that before the beta
<micahg> let's see if ppc64el fixed itself
<elfy> knome: then the other question is, which bugs :p I'd guess not those we don't have anything actually to do with as a team - eg xchat
<knome> anything that we are committed to try to fix
<knome> elfy, ygm
<knome> pleia2,  [lyz] Engage with other social media admins for flavors on wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/SocialMedia: INPROGRESS
<knome> pleia2, plz finish it :P
<pleia2> k
<knome> pleia2,  [xubuntu-team] Extend website with "recommended system resources" -specs: INPROGRESS
<knome> pleia2, let's take some time to work on that in the following days
<pleia2> I am running off to a class, will try to chat later
<knome> no problem. just poking and reminding about stuff :)
<elfy> knome: what's ygm ... 
<knome> "you've got mail"
<elfy> ta
<knome> np
<elfy> knome: think I got rid of all the ones to get rid off
<Unit193> ochosi: 1. Define "applications"?  Drop xfwm? xfce4-panel? etc, etc... 2. I'm not terribly fond of the idea, and the bugs are actually in the repo not in my seed, so I still think it could be merged as is.
<ali1234> drop everything except xfwm, xfce4-panel, xfdesktop, xfsettings + dependencies
<brainwash> bluesabre: ok, I'll test it asap
<brainwash> bluesabre: the catfish 
<bluesabre> thanks brainwash
<bluesabre> ?
<brainwash> woops
<brainwash> let me write the sentence :)
<brainwash> the catfish insensitive search issue seems to be caused by python vs. python3
<brainwash> python3 handles it fine
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> thats good to know
<brainwash> it can be simply changed here http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/catfish-search/trunk/view/head:/configure#L6
<brainwash> or any drawbacks?
<bluesabre> there shouldn't be
<bluesabre> I do all of my dev and testing with 3
<bluesabre> just making sure that python2 continues to work
<brainwash> so python still refers to python2 in ubuntu
<bluesabre> right
<brainwash> what a slow transition! :D
<bluesabre> no joke :D
<knome> i rather watch that slow transition than a rush to upload new packages after FF for an LTS release and break everything.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> that rush was before FF
<bluesabre> anyway, all of my python apps are made to work correctly in 2 or 3
<bluesabre> keeps everybody happy
<knome> bluesabre, i'm not referring to the xubuntu team :P
<brainwash> bluesabre: installed mugshot rev77, changed my profile pic, deleted ~/.face and switched to the greeter -> new pic is shown, so the accountsservice integration works here
<bluesabre> fantastic!
<brainwash> it's not possible to unset the profile picture, right?
<brainwash> via mugshot I mean
<olbi> hi guys. I have installed Xubuntu 14.04 Beta 1 on VirtualBox and have only 800 x 640 resolution. What could be the problem? :P
<olbi> sorry, only 640x480 :D
<bluesabre> olbi, probably missing virtualbox-guest-dkms
<olbi> hmm
<bluesabre> brainwash: not currently
<bluesabre> better make it a good one ;)
<brainwash> is there a roadmap? or should I file a lp report to keep track of new ideas and features?
<bluesabre> file a bug, mark it as wishlist
<brainwash> ok
<olbi> is there a more easly way to translate the docs added to cd, not from launchpad? :-)
<bluesabre> knome ^
<olbi> I was trying to translate that files in system, but it could be problem with adding this later
<Unit193> knome: Did you by chance see pings?
<olbi> from which repo you get translation files for system-config-printers and Additional drivers?
<Noskcaj> new menulibre is packaged, waiting for upload
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, When are you going to apply for access to the PAPT
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: probably tonight or tomorrow
<Noskcaj> :)
<bluesabre> its been hectic trying to get everything fixed and released
<bluesabre> finally catching up to all of the bug reports
<Unit193> olbi: The desktop files for "Additional Drivers"?
<olbi> Unit193: I want to check the translations files but can't find where it is :-)
<olbi> Unit193: in Preferences
<Unit193> The desktop file for that is in src:xubuntu-default-settings.
<bluesabre> brainwash: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mugshot-dev/mugshot/trunk/revision/78
<bluesabre> let me know if that works for you
<bluesabre> but please make a bug report for that so its more of a bugfix :)
<Unit193> But, you didn't like it last time I did that! :P
 * bluesabre hides
<brainwash> bluesabre: ok, testing in some minutes
<bluesabre> great, thanks
<brainwash> ali1234: so thunar reports that the trash is empty (still shows the files), if xfdesktop is not showing the trash icon
<ali1234> works for me
<elfy> works for me too
<brainwash> work for me too, if I tell xfdesktop to show the trash icon
<elfy> I don't have any of that stuff showing
<ali1234> i never use desktop icons
<brainwash> ok :(
<brainwash> elfy: how did you test it?
<elfy> test it?
<brainwash> move a file to the trash, relog and open thunar
<elfy> what do you mean - I've nothing on the desktop - I had stuff in the trash - I emptied - the icon changed
<elfy> I don't need to relog - I know that it works here :)
<brainwash> nonono :D
<elfy> [19:50] <brainwash> ali1234: so thunar reports that the trash is empty (still shows the files), if xfdesktop is not showing the trash icon
<elfy> [19:51] <ali1234> works for me
<brainwash> bug 880533
<ubottu> bug 880533 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar reports Trash Empty when it is not" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880533
<brainwash> here is my upstream report: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10655
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10655 in general "Thunar reports Trash Empty when it is not" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]
<brainwash> so it works fine, if xfdesktop is showing the trash icon (and therefore does some calculations or whatever)
<brainwash> ali1234: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9006
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9006 in General "Shows empty trash icon first time it's opened even if trash isn't empty." [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<brainwash> what the heck
<elfy> shows as full when it's got stuff in it as well - works properly for me 
<brainwash> in the thunar side panel?
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> thanks for testing it
<elfy> I didn't actually test it - I just know it works ok :)
<brainwash> it does not for me (and at least a handful of other people), so I'm trying to find out why it fails
<elfy> well for a start I don't have numerous DE's installed :p
<elfy> not looked on a live session 
<olbi> guys, it is possible to add by default plugins for openvpn into networkmanager? :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: rev 78 works + bug 1286897
<ubottu> bug 1286897 in Mugshot "Add option to remove current profile picture" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286897
<bluesabre> brainwash: good to hear
<pleia2> knome: oh, hm, it's not easy to find our social media on our website anymore
<knome> pleia2, http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/
<knome> pleia2, the idea was to have a "social media" page, but not done yet
<pleia2> ah, good :)
<pleia2> I can probably add them to marketing resources for now
<knome> but nonetheless, shouldn't one find the xubuntu facebook page on facebook by *searching*?
<pleia2> there are a few of them
<pleia2> only one is blessed :)
<pleia2> https://www.facebook.com/xubuntuusers
<knome> yeah, but if there are 1 or >1, in any case, why one more?
<pleia2> I don't want more :) people just keep making them
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=2009&action=edit
<knome> pleia2, i wasn't asking you, i was asking the person who created yet one more :)
<pleia2> oh
<knome> (still empty, but if you drop the things in there, i can drop that page into the navigation
<pleia2> I shall make one on our real site
<knome> huhu?
<knome> see the link? :P
<pleia2> on staging
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=2009&action=edit
<knome> that's a "Social media" page, on the real site...
<pleia2> oh, neat :)
<knome> just drop in the content, and i'll add it in the navi
<pleia2> then I shall populate it! soon
<pleia2> right now I need a nap, on account of my cold
<knome> hehe, sure
<knome> get well soon
<pleia2> thanks :)
<knome> let's see if i'll get that done before you get back then
<knome> pleia2, page published and in the navi
<olbi> http://docs.xubuntu.org/ - if I translate docs for 14.04 LTS into my lang, can you add theme on this site? :-)
<knome> olbi, that'd be the plan.
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: you've probably had quite enough of me but...
<bluesabre> Mugshot 0.2.1: https://launchpad.net/mugshot/0.2/0.2.1
<bluesabre> translators are probably sick of me as well
<brainwash> bluesabre: didn't you want to become a package uploader yourself? :)
<knome> who isn't? :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: yeah, but since Noskcaj is already on the PAPT, he can move it along quite a bit faster than I can
<bluesabre> I'm going to work on my application for that tonight most likely
 * bluesabre needs to do a bunch of release announcements
<brainwash> I'll test 0.2.1 tomorrow, also have some minor improvements in mind
<brainwash> but I'll try to fix/implement it myself
<bluesabre> cool, thanks!
<pleia2> knome: thanks, my plan had been to add the cute little social media icons next to each one ;)
<pleia2> but I can do that later, best to have basic page in place, it looks good
<knome> yep, that's what i was thinkig as well
<knome> release early, release often
<pleia2> emaild other social media admin types to finish up this collaboration work item
<knome> nice
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-23
<bluesabre> also didn't optipng them before sending to you
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i'm fine with that for now
<knome> got to prepare the 2.0 theme version soonish then
<bluesabre> bug fixes or more goodies?
<knome> i guess mostly bug fixes
<knome> thanks for the screenshots anyway, they will be useful whatever we decide to do
<bluesabre> np
<pleia2> knome: ooh, nice
<knome> pleia2, isn't it!
<knome> bluesabre, any idea why i'm not seeing parole controls? :P
<bluesabre> your warrant expired
<knome> :(
<knome> i'll revert the website
<knome> :(
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> so the controls are just missing?
<knome> yeah, and the mouse cursor disappears when i move it on the parole window area
<knome> i'm on utopic fwiw
<knome> i can pause the dvd on spacebar
<bluesabre> oh, that's odd
<bluesabre> have a dialog open or anything?
<knome> what dialog? parole dialog?
<knome> nope, only that window
<knome> and i also can't see the timebar
<knome> eg. i don't know how much of the chapter i've watched
<bluesabre> when you move the mouse, the bar and cursor should appear
<knome> nope
<bluesabre> :\
<knome> the mouse just moves under the window
<bluesabre> try changing the sink
<bluesabre> Preferences > Display > Video Output
<knome> yeah, that seems to work
<knome> let's see if it works with the dvd too
<knome> since i remember the controls were visible before the actual chapter earlier as well
<knome> mhm, works now
<knome> but the video chops a bit
<bluesabre> which sink?
<knome> x, no xv
<knome> it's possible that the problem is in the dvd, this is the first time i watch it
<bluesabre> try the other X (X11/XV)
<knome> same there
<knome> :(
<bluesabre> no xv is 0 acceleration
<bluesabre> :(
<knome> happens at least when i unfocus the window
<knome> i mean, it shows a blank/black frame
<knome> can confirm it happens on focus/unfocus
<knome> let me try the other sink..
<knome> doesn't happen with the clutter sink, but no cursor or controls
<bluesabre> thats no fun
<knome> nope
<bluesabre> vlc ;)
<knome> huhu!
<knome> let's see if the frame skippnig happens on other events too
<knome> or without me doing anything
<ranu> Hello guys, I was wondering if the current behavior of the applications after disconnecting the dual monitor setup is right. I have two monitors, one is my notebook, and another is a 21'' screen which I use to extend the window. If I place any application in the second monitor (in the right) and then disconnect the VGA cable, the applications will be in a space which is unreachable.
<ranu> Won't be nice if applications which were in the second monitor moved to a screen coordinate which is "mapped" (is this even right to say? I've said because the resolutions aren't the same) and visible to the user?
<brainvvash> ranu, did the behavior change in 15.04?
<ranu> I can't say right now.  I didn't downloaded the .iso, but, nice idea. I'll check it out!
<brainvvash> I remember reading about something related: tiled windows were not moved to the remaining screen after disconnecting the 2nd one
<ranu> Interesting, did you read that on the bug tracker?
<brainvvash> there is also a known issue with disconnecting the external screen. the xfce settings daemon may crash, and therefore break some functionality
<brainvvash> let me try to find that report or comment
<ranu> k
<brainvvash> bug 1333203
<ubottu> bug 1333203 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Tiled windows do not restore when 2nd display unplugged" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1333203
<brainvvash> not sure if bug 1379702 is related to your issue
<ubottu> bug 1379702 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfsettingsd crashes after disconnecting external screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379702
<ranu> Going to have a look at it, thank you brainvvash :D
<brainvvash> :)
<ranu> Since I'm using 14.04, and the bug 1379702 never happened here, this may be just on utopic 14.10.
<ubottu> bug 1379702 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfsettingsd crashes after disconnecting external screen" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1379702
<brainvvash> right
<brainvvash> so yeah, please test 15.04 and file a new bug report
<bluesabre> knome: utopic https://www.dropbox.com/s/io317wm5mfsfag4/utopic.tar.gz?dl=0
<Akusari> hello :-)
<bluesabre> knome: precise https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxrbv8okwwgrx2x/precise.tar.gz?dl=0
<knome> bluesabre, you've been busy ;)
<slickymasterWork> elfy, https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1404275/+merge/245201
<slickymasterWork> hey knome 
<knome> hullo slickymasterWork 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: ty
<slickymasterWork> np elfy 
<bluesabre> knome: just felt like a fun side project
<knome> hehe
<davmor2> you're saying knome feels like a fun side project, I don't know if knome should take that as a compliment or an insult ;)
<elfy> I think that a visit to knome would be a fun side project for sure :)
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> :P
 * knome shrugs and continues with other things
<knome> elfy, ping
<elfy> knome: pong
<dkessel> mhhh. can anybody point me an english example output of "sudo lshw -C network" ?
<dkessel> struggling with translating that part
<dkessel> there is nothing which would be CLAIMED or something in english in my german terminal output
<elfy> dkessel: http://pastebin.com/36YKESAB
<elfy> does that help?
<dkessel> elfy: perfect, thanks
<elfy> welcome :)
<elfy> bluesabre: will we get the fix to xfce bug 11579 ? 
<ubottu> xfce bug 11579 in core "can no longer expand directories in the tree pane while remaining in the current directory" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11579
<Unit193> elfy: Version: 1.6.5, that's what we have in Xubuntu.
<Unit193> ochosi: My merge was merged.
<elfy> Unit193: yes I know - but are we going to get that issue fix before release? 
<Unit193> Several bug fixes since release.
<pleia2> knome: would like to publish next "Xubuntu at" article today, want to have a look first? http://xubuntu.org/?p=2965
<pleia2> anyone have trouble moving or adding panels on the daily? have someone on G+ who is struggling with it: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+xubuntu/posts/JMnibSDV5wM
<knome> pleia2, i glanced at that yesterday, if you don't want to add photos, please go ahea
<knome> +d
<pleia2> knome: yeah, no photos, thanks
<knome> pleia2, i'm planning to be in touch with that guy using xubuntu on his classes on the local uni where i talked too for another of those articles
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-at-mexican-collection-agencies/
<pleia2> knome: great
<pleia2> I've run out
<knome> :)
<knome> we should do a social media campaign to gather more
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> tweeted that ^
<pleia2> knome: doh, double-tweet
<knome> "Do you use Xubuntu in an organization and want to be featured on the Xubuntu website? Contact @pleia2 for more information!"
 * pleia2 deletes hers
<knome> "deploymens"
<knome> men who deploy?
<pleia2> yeah, that too
<knome> so what about that^ ?
<pleia2> it's gone now
<knome> no, the tweet proposal :P
<pleia2> that's fine
<knome> oki, will tweet
<pleia2> posted article on fb and G+
<knome> great
<knome> i'm working on first updates for the new website theme
<knome> but what about setting up the first desktop of the week desktop now?
<pleia2> I have a metric ton of work to do this week, so I can't do much more until next week
<knome> ok
<knome> should we schedule some time for $stuff
<pleia2> sure
<knome> or can you, tbe?
<pleia2> my brain is full
<knome> hah
<knome> well when it isn't, and you're looking at your calendar, email me ideal times on next week and i'll get back to you then
<knome> i mean, with the scheduling :P
<pleia2> I'll see what I can do
<knome> sure, no rush or pressure
<knome> i'll get to things on my own eventually as well
<ochosi> Unit193: yup, saw it, good news! :)
<knome> just want to get some of the technical side fixed
<elfy> Unit193: cool - that's what I wanted to hear :p
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: you still want https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1301056 as won't fix?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1301056 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Session name has "Session"" [Wishlist,Opinion]
<ochosi> yeah
<slickymasterWork> on both packages ochosi?
<Unit193> elfy: Heh, well so can't quite just grab a few commits and run with them.  I suppose you could argue this is a regression.
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> gotta run
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll do it
<ochosi> bbl
<ochosi> ty
<elfy> Unit193: so - is that no? 
<slickymasterWork> done ochosi 
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre: ping me with what you need regarding the standardization of the screenshot size for http://xubuntu.org/screenshots/
<Unit193> elfy: Oh sorry, forgot to say. I don't know, not Sean, but prepped one anyway with 3/4 fixes.
<elfy> k - ty
<Unit193> (Doesn't count for much, but has to count for a little..)
<elfy> an answer counts for a lot in my opinion :)
<elfy> I guess if it's not going to make it - should do LP bug for it so people have something to hang a hat on
<Unit193> Ah great, once you do that give me the bug number so I can add it.
<elfy> Unit193: bug 1424774
<ubottu> bug 1424774 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Unable to expand directories in the tree pane and remain in the current directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1424774
<elfy> added the xfce one to it
<Unit193> Great.
<Unit193> bluesabre: In xubuntu-staging, and https://sigma.unit193.net/source/thunar_1.6.5-0ubuntu2.dsc
<brainvvash> this will be fixed anyway once xfce 4.12 is released and packaged, or?
<elfy> Unit193: add it to vivid bug blueprint?
<Unit193> brainvvash: Yes, but that's a lot of FFes, better get the bugfix in ASAP, since they're free.
<Unit193> elfy: Err, right, that's somewhere..
<elfy> I'll do it then :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: Have you talked with the release team about Xfce 4.12?  Might be good to file the FFe now?
<brainvvash> FFe for bug fix releases?
<Unit193> brainvvash: 4.11.x => 4.12 is a major version bump for after FF.
<Unit193> (This being the changelog http://paste.openstack.org/show/QVSubdGhCpBagr7Tp6jp)
<Unit193> elfy: It's in staging if you would like to confirm the fixes.
<elfy> Unit193: appears to have turned the trick :)
<Unit193> Did you/can you confirm the others while you're at it?
<elfy> others?
<Unit193> http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11571 - http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11557  You of course don't have to at all.
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11571 in general "Hide template file extensions in context menu" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11557 in general "When renaming a file to go over the limit on properties dialog, it will not able to be canceled." [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<elfy> Unit193: I'll check them both
<elfy> Unit193: don't have any templates other than Empty File - that looks as I'd expect it to
<brainvvash> that's just a cosmetic change anyway
<Unit193> So many bugs reported against thunar. :3
<elfy> Unit193: ack fix for renaming issue
<Unit193> Great. ;D
<Unit193> brainvvash: Figured may as well grab it too, since it fixes an Xfce bug (albeit, yours) and has little regression potential.
<elfy> mmm
<brainvvash> nothing wrong with that
<elfy> Unit193: so had file name that was looong - then tried making it too long - got error on file rename, close and it all did as expected
<elfy> retried - cos I am like that and http://i.imgur.com/hwOLfF7.png
<Akusari> elfy!! hi :-)
<elfy> hi Akusari 
<Akusari> i'm trying my first sru and nomation on a bug for trusty. lets see what happen
<Akusari> but no xubuntu related bug. So, i'm silent now ;-)
<Unit193> Good luck.
<Akusari> unit193: thx :-) ahhh, i get you..:-) Let me ask you if you could build a thunar 1.65 for utopic as well :-)
<Akusari> xfce-412 ppa
<Unit193> Eh...
<Akusari> well, if its not possible it doesn't matter :-)
<Unit193> It is, and since asked sure, but easier to just track one series, and utopic is going away oh so quickly now.
<Unit193> I've done a few uploads for utopic in there, but mainly targetting trusty.
<Akusari> yeahhh, i understand
<Unit193> Akusari: Give it a minute to build (and about 5 to publish) then you're good to go.
<Akusari> np -)
<Akusari> :-)
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/tumbler/commit/?id=69122ab380c7f4fc5cf69d5b1d597f588ea39bc4 I'd say that's important.
<elfy> probably - there's lots of green and red and black
<Unit193> Haha. :D
<Unit193> Moves the thumbnail cache so other things than Xfce will see it.
<elfy> :)
<Akusari> unit193: thx, found your new thunar 1.65 :-)
<Unit193> Sure.
<knome> wow, super fast responses from the IS
<Unit193> Oh, what'd you ask for?
<knome> to pull the new revisions to production
<knome> happened in 25 mins
<elfy> \o/
 * elfy gets knome to talk to them about his issues ... 
<knome> hah.
<knome> i just looked at the open queue
<knome> and saw many open tickets for me too
<elfy> :p
<knome> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=23534
<knome> SAAAAD
<knome> Created: Sun Dec 08 20:16:02 2013
<elfy> ha
<elfy> you should see the forum vb3 to vb4 changeover one :p
<knome> i did
<knome> :P
<knome> unfortunately...
<elfy> there were 2 changes of forum council in the middle of that :p
<knome> yep.
<elfy> beta 1 WILL be tomorrow
<elfy> Akusari: ^^
<elfy> I'll send some basic info to the list in the morning - likely I'll not have the correct url - so someone from the QA team can post the real link :D
<pleia2> knome: are we supposed to not have a navigation footer on the main page?
<knome> pleia2, yes
<pleia2> meh
<knome> pleia2, see the new menu
<pleia2> not searchable
<knome> well bah
<knome> you and your requirements :)
<pleia2> ctrl+f to search for "contact" for example
<pleia2> it's important
<pleia2> digging through menus is unpleasant
<knome> i can reintroduce it later
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/screenshots/
<knome> pleia2, question if you have 5mins? :)
<pleia2> don't have, running out to dr appt
<knome> heh, ok
<knome> have fun... if appropriate
<elfy> night peeps
<knome> nighty elfy :)
<brainvvash> Unit193, this branch was updated https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/tree/lid-closed
<brainvvash> can you please package it again for the -staging ppa?
<Unit193> Bloody...
<Unit193> bluesabre: Recommends: desktop-base, gnome-themes-standard, gnome-icon-theme-symbolic, policykit-1   -gtk-greeter no longer needs the gnome ones, because of ada right?
<bluesabre> Unit193: good question
<knome> ok, one hopefully final push request sent to IS
<Unit193> bluesabre: Did you check scrollback?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, working on it :)
<bluesabre> slickymaster: 1440x900
<knome> bluesabre, slickymaster: we'd better document that :)
<knome> bluesabre, slickymaster 
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Maintenance#Screenshot_guidelines
<knome> feel free to expand the very barebone guideline :P
<bluesabre> looks exquisite
<knome> :D
<knome> authored by bluesabre 
<knome> bluesabre, fancy the new screenshots page? http://xubuntu.org/screenshots/
<bluesabre> knome: that looks good
<slickymaster> hey guys
 * bluesabre is happy to have screenshots all the same size
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster 
<slickymaster> yeah, the page does look pretty
<Unit193> You know, one of these days, I'm going to sign something 'Unit 193 <unit193@Sigma>' and bluesabre won't notice and sponsor anyway... :3
<bluesabre> heh
<bluesabre> I always review packages before uploading :)
<slickymaster> bluesabre, what exactly do you want me to do, re the screenshots?
<Unit193> I know, but how easy is that to miss? :P
<bluesabre> slickymaster: nothing you'll need to do at the moment for xubuntu.org, I collected a bunch for precise, trusty, utopic last night
<bluesabre> unless knome wants MOAR
 * slickymaster bets he will
 * bluesabre agrees
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/light-locker_1.6.0-0ubuntu2.dsc
<Unit193>  light-locker (1.6.0-0ubuntu2) vivid; urgency=medium
<Unit193>  .
<Unit193>    * d/p/lid-closed.patch: Refresh patch from upstream.
<Unit193>      Handle UPower lid event with systemd too.
<slickymaster> knome, what exactly you mean by default configuration? 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Should we really keep shipping this?  Or wait for cavalier to actually finish it and merge?
<knome> slickymaster, same as xfce docs guidelines, do not change wallpaper/panel config
<slickymaster> the one just out of installation
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> slickymaster, if you have time tonight, we can discuss the website more or less briefly :)
<knome> bbiab ->
<slickymaster> knome, ftr http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds-xfdesktop
<slickymaster> I assume your referring to this one ^^
<slickymaster> I'll have time in about an hour, an hour and a half
<knome> slickymaster, yes, something like that, except for xubuntu it's both harder and easier;
<knome> the default config changes every cycle, but it's also easy to redo with a clean install
<Unit193> bluesabre: 1. Re: Thunar, a-ok there?  Want to pickup another patch?  Drop one?  Not upload the fix?  2. FFe/Talk to release team about Xfce 4.12?  3. Whatever is going on with light-locker. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: 1. Thunar looks fine, will upload in a bit
<bluesabre> Unit193: 2. Going to work on the FFe this evening (thanks for the reminder)
<bluesabre> Unit193: 3. I suppose there is something to figure out there, need to dig in
<bluesabre> Unit193: 4.
<Unit193> I'd recommend talking to release team, because all those releases basically should be bugfixes anyway, no?  (But yeah, likely still require FFes)
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh wait, there was no 4
<bluesabre> yeah
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, well yeah.  That's all I needed answers for!  I have the patch refreshed and in /source/ as linked to.
<Unit193> I should likely upload to staging.
<bluesabre> I'll do the FFe as a single thing first, then ping release team folks
<bluesabre> since I usually miss their schedules
<knome> website updates done for now :)
<pleia2> knome: thank you :)
<knome> no problem
<knome> ...any more
 * knome grins
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> well now that you mention it
<knome> also made it so that we can have a different menu @footer
<knome> bluesabre, yes master?
<bluesabre> j/k
<knome> :P
<pleia2> knome: back now if you still need 5 min ;)
<knome> pleia2, nah, ^ that was the answer
<knome> well
<knome> i can use 5 mins for something else
<pleia2> haha
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/help/
<knome> we should link to the docs from the first list
<knome> per release
<knome> to make the documentation links more prominent
<pleia2> wfm
<knome> needs a small text review
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/products/
<knome> no t-shirts mentioned
<knome> and maybe we could do a shinier section on unixstickers there
<pleia2> so I think it's time to retire the StartUbuntu poster
<knome> a la stuff @ http://xubuntu.org/donations/
<knome> yes,
<knome> i also need to fix the branding stuff
 * knome sighs
<pleia2> I think we keep stickers in one section and t-shirts in another, even though they're all from unixstickers
<knome> we have so much great stuff but it's been hidden so log
<knome> we could still add a unixstickers logo there :)
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq/ 
<knome> needs updating!!
<pleia2> indeed :)
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/about/ <- badly linked, i think it's only in the menu
<pleia2> and footer
<knome> well menu is main menu and footer menu
<knome> it's still too hidden
<pleia2> do we want to consolidate and put it all on the front page?
<knome> probably not
<pleia2> k
<knome> i like the new page
<knome> it's recently updated too
<pleia2> alright
<knome> we have the ability to add more widget areas on the front pge
<knome> *page
<knome> as you can see on the staging site now
<knome> so if we want to highlight something on the website or elsewhere, we can easily do so
<pleia2> I see
<knome> we have one more widget area to use, which is not visible now
<bluesabre> Unit193: see -release, may be a bit before I can upload thunar
<Unit193> Saw already, thanks.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-24
<slickymaster> ok knome, I'm about again
<knome> slickymaster, for starters, take a look at what i and pleia2 just discussed
<slickymaster> doing it
<slickymaster> yeah, the StartUbuntu flyers section should be dropped
<Unit193> knome, pleia2: What were your thoughts on the aforementioned idea of translations on docs.x.o?
<knome> Unit193, i'm happy with it
<slickymaster> it's way long gone that XP transition
<slickymaster> which idea is that Unit193 ?
<slickymaster> having the translations also linked fron the site?
<knome> slickymaster, yes
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> +1 to it
<slickymaster> I agree that the FAQs section ought to be updated but there hasn't been much written to update it
<pleia2> Unit193: should be fine, but we should create a wiki page with "update the docs" instructions, right now it's simple so I just remember it every time I update the site, but if we're building translations each time too, it starts getting more complicated
<Unit193> I have `./update` for my daily build. :P
<slickymaster> knome, what type of widgets are you talking about?
<pleia2> Unit193: great, sharing the contents of ./update should be much of the docs we need
<knome> pleia2, we can probably drop a script in the branch
<pleia2> knome: or that
<slickymaster> I mean the ones you mentioned that could be added to the front page
<knome> slickymaster, see the staging site for the visual look potential
<pleia2> the server our docs live on doesn't always like to talk to the bzr server, so it's still all handled by hand
 * slickymaster sees
<Unit193> pleia2: I could, it's a little geared towards my setup, but it's pretty generic.
<pleia2> I should look into that again, maybe open a ticket
<knome> pleia2, could probably do a script that exports everything into a tar.gz you only have to unpack on the server
<pleia2> knome: any of the above is fine :) I just don't want to add this to my workload without a plan
<Unit193> knome: Mine uses rsync...
<knome> i understand, which is why i'm proposing clear actionable items for Unit193 to take :P
<Unit193> Whaaaat?  Nooo, this needs to be done by knome!
<knome> pleia2, did you have a photo of the xubuntu t-shirt or want to come up with more text on the products page for that? :P
<slickymaster> knome: "This is dynamically created content."
<pleia2> knome: no photo
<slickymaster> can you clarify that for me a bit more
<knome> slickymaster, meaning it's not hardcoded to the website, we can control that without RT tickets to IS
<knome> slickymaster, the column count too.
<slickymaster> right
 * knome drops web banners for now
<knome> slickymaster, anything in the discussion you saw you'd like to work on now?
<slickymaster> take a pick knome, I'll be about for a hour more
<slickymaster> so 
<knome> well i'm working on this and that already
<knome> *you* take a pick that scratches your itch :P
<slickymaster> the docs item
<knome> on it right now
<slickymaster> on text review?
<knome> done
<knome> refresh the page
<Unit193> pleia2: Want to look at it perhaps?
<slickymaster> needs a hard refresh
<knome> slickymaster, as anything with canonical cache
<pleia2> Unit193: not today, probably not this week, I'm really buried at $day_job
<knome> ok, updated a bit more
<slickymaster> I'm ok with that
<knome> slickymaster, well if you aren't, feel free to edit it
<slickymaster> no, I am
<slickymaster> but were'nt you and pleia2 also talking about bumping up the position of the docs links on that page?
<knome> i did that.
<slickymaster> weren't even
<slickymaster> I see it now, it's visible in the page load, without the need of scrolling the page down
<slickymaster> knome: the StartUbuntu section is going to be replaced by anything?
<knome> slickymaster, not at the moment, until we have the xubuntu flyers ready
<knome> well, there's the note about the development of those
<knome> GridCube, ping
<GridCube> YES
<GridCube> caplocks
<knome> haha :)
<GridCube> yes?
<knome> re: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/DesktopOfTheWeek
<knome> did we know the wallpaper licenses for the first two?
<knome> #3 link is not working
<GridCube> yes, probably taken down, i have no clue about first two
<knome> so we should start with your wallpaper
<knome> or Unit?
<Unit193> Nope.
<knome> gridders then
<GridCube> :) its fine
<GridCube> i dont mind either way
<Unit193> You can use that, I can re-shoot, or something I don't actually care, just got to scrollback and saw my non-ping name. :P
<GridCube> P: we can get a prettier one from Unit193 
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/screenshots/dotw/
<knome> pleia2, if around, see ^that and comment
<slickymaster> GridCube, is that library you work at?
<GridCube> lol, no, not even
<GridCube> my library is like a shoebox with books in it
<slickymaster> knome: "This desktop is Bruno", shouldn't it be "This desktop is Bruno's"?
<GridCube> or is from P:
<slickymaster> or that
<knome> slickymaster, nooo :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: going to add xfce components to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4/+bug/1424887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,New]
<slickymaster> ahah
<knome> do you know how small the caption textarea in wp is? :(
 * slickymaster caught the grammar police
<bluesabre> and then I'll poke -release folks about it tomorrow 
<knome> i can see like 9 words at a time
 * slickymaster hides
<GridCube> wow thats froma august 2013
<GridCube> how fast time goes on
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ah, nice.  Have fun then, I'll try to keep an eye on it too.
<knome> looks like color scheme day tomorrow
<bluesabre> ochosi: see the above link as you (you're now subscribed)
<bluesabre> knome: think I need to add any more words to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1424887 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,New]
<knome> "each component since 14.04" ?
<knome> or even
<knome> "each component since 14.04 LTS"
<knome> i think that might tickle the approve-nerve
<bluesabre> heh
<knome> well that says "we've used this devel stuff for LTS, now we'd like the final stuff in"
<knome> maybe say something about affected flavors
<knome> studio
<knome> and how they are fine with this
 * bluesabre hasn't spoken with myth and studio
<knome> Unit193, didn't you?
<knome> or who was it
<bluesabre> probably xubuntuw38
<knome> i remotely remember seeing some comment on their development channel that they are fine with it
<Unit193> Likely Studio.
<knome> but... don't put that in the bug because i said it.
<knome> studio tries to go DE-agnostic anyway
<Unit193> And I don't think zequence would object though, but lets ping him.
<knome> yes
<knome> myth people too
<Unit193> They only do LTS releases.
<knome> oh.
<knome> then let's not
<knome> they are probably just happy that we got a non-dev release in before the next LTS :P
<slickymaster> damn, coorecting the translated tags in the po files is making me sleepy
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> slickymaster, hah.
<knome> slickymaster, no whining!
<slickymaster> not whining, yawning :P
 * slickymaster would love to catch one in the fi.po file
<knome> unlikely ;)
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> there's none, already check that one
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> this bug confuses me https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11583
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11583 in Helpers "exo-open --launch FileManager with non Thunar filemanagers" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> ~"this pdf won't open in thunar or nautilus, nautilus opens up at the location of the file"
<bluesabre> maybe I misunderstand, but I wouldn't read a document with my filing cabinet
<bluesabre> oh wait... well that is odd
<brainvvash> why even pass "--launch FileManager" ?
<bluesabre> maybe thunar intelligently opens the file in the correct app
 * bluesabre shrugs
<bluesabre> I'll comment on that one later
<brainvvash> comment what?
<bluesabre> dunno yet
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> whats up brainvvash ?
<brainvvash> exo-open --launch FileManager  is meant to launch the default file manager, no additional arguments
<brainvvash> not much.. just waiting for Xfce 4.12 to be released :D
<Unit193> --launch TYPE [PARAMETERs...]       Launch the preferred application of TYPE with the optional PARAMETERs, where TYPE is one of the following values.
 * bluesabre packages new light-locker patch
<Unit193> bluesabre: Pssst, I already did that, pinged you, linked you, and pushed to staging. :P
<Unit193> Or is this a newer-new? :P
<bluesabre> newer-new
<bluesabre> 6 hours ago?
<Unit193> Nope, same.
<bluesabre> D:
<Unit193> But, uhh.  If you're already nearly done...
<bluesabre> oh, I see
<bluesabre> light-locker (1.6.0-0ubuntu1~ppa15.04.2) vivid; urgency=medium
<bluesabre> confused me since there was not a 15.04.1 there
<Unit193> That's not mine.
<Unit193> :D
<Unit193> ...Did I push it to staging?  I meant to, and did in my head...
<bluesabre> now I'm confused
<bluesabre> 2015-02-16
<bluesabre> last vivid build
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/light-locker_1.6.0-0ubuntu2.dsc
<bluesabre> oh goodie
<Unit193> That's partially why I asked about LL, since we're shipping each commit basically. :P
<bluesabre> heh
<knome> i wonder how many apps would work if you only shipped either the odd or even numbered commits.
<bluesabre> I saw cavalier's ping before your ping
<Unit193> Oooh.
<Unit193> brainvvash pinged me.
 * bluesabre can now easily retrieve pings, nice weechat script for that
<Unit193> That'll be handy.
 * knome notes to ping bluesabre more often
 * bluesabre gets excited
<knome> you get excited of work? :P
<bluesabre> I get excited at the prospect of possibly not losing work
<knome> wow, that's a long shot
<knome> but okay.
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> and also, i'm off to bed
<knome> nighty and ttyl
<bluesabre> nighty knome
<bluesabre> lock-on-lid seems to work, so thats exciting
<Unit193> Yey!
 * bluesabre can't upload light-locker either
<Unit193> Hah. :D
<bluesabre> I think our packageset is temporarily broken :P
<Unit193> That's alright, I can't upload anything. :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to upload that to -staging so we can get more testing?
<Unit193> There was a packageset change earlier, I believe.
<Unit193> Sure.
<bluesabre> Thanks
<bluesabre> Unit193: where was the packageset change... not sure I'm subscribed to that notification
<Unit193> [15:43:15] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Packageset: 52 entries have been added or removed
 * bluesabre thinks the release team wants me him to focus on the xfce release
<bluesabre> dang, didn't erase one of those words
<bluesabre> ah, indeed
<Unit193> bluesabre: Why is 60-xubuntu.conf in debian/ rather than usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/ ?
<elfy> can someone with the knowledges do social thing for beta 1 tests please - ty :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: beats me
<bluesabre> We've got the go-ahead for xfce-4.12 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1424887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,Triaged]
<brainvvash> does the task manager crash the notification area?
<bluesabre> (not that I expected otherwise)
<bluesabre> brainvvash: works for me
<bluesabre> (doesn't crash the notification area)
<brainvvash> ok
<knome> elfy, tweeted
<Akusari> sounds great :-) So i guess for trusty i can use xfce-412 ppa to get the same like planed for vivid?
<bluesabre> Akusari: yeah, once the release lands we'll update the xfce-412 ppa with the latest and greatest
<knome> though it's not exactly the same as the polished experience in vivid
<knome> and using the PPA is at your own risk, on vivid you get the support
<Akusari> yes, yes, i know....
<knome> just want to avoid misconceptions since many more people read this channel
<Akusari> yeah and i think a lot of people will ask for backports XD
<knome> you can always ask...
<Akusari> hehe - right :-)
<Akusari> if i would be the head, i wouldn't offer any kind of backports fot trusty or older xubuntu versions. :)
<Akusari> sounds hard but it's the best i think
<Akusari> i would offer that you can use our xfce-4.12 ppa, but its your own risk of course (So, at least, we agree :-))
<knome> well, 14.04 is supported until 2017, so it's a balance between backporting 4.12 and supporting a development version for two more years
<knome> so a backport isn't completely out of question
<knome> but probably still unlikely, since it's a lot of work
<Akusari> yes, you need to analyze how many ressources (men-power) might be used for a backport and much mnore importend "support" of those packages
<knome> it's mostly different people taking the burden though
<Akusari> we,, i know such problems, because i'm a developer in a software house ;-)
<Akusari> well
<elfy> knome: thanks :)
<knome> eh. the "bridge linux xfce edition" menu icon looks suspiciously close to the old xubuntu logo
<knome> http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Bridge-Linux-Xfce-2015-02-Released-a-Fast-and-User-Friendly-Arch-Linux-Distro-473288-3.jpg
<knome> or is the "arch xfce" icon
<knome> http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/news2/Bridge-Linux-Xfce-2015-02-Released-a-Fast-and-User-Friendly-Arch-Linux-Distro-473288-11.jpg
<jjfrv8> elfy, I can't do any hardware test with the 32-bit beta. Fails to create a bootable flash drive with UNetbootin.
<knome> !team | next community meeting announced; tomorrow (feb 25) at 17utc
<ubottu> next community meeting announced; tomorrow (feb 25) at 17utc: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<knome> and sorry for the short notice...
<knome> pleia2, ygm
<knome> bbl
<elfy> jjfrv8: ack - I gave up using unetbootin ftr
 * pleia2 social medias about b1 testing
<elfy> pleia2: awesome sauce - thanks :)
 * dkessel needs a search engine for this channel's irc logs
<elfy> oh ... hang on dkessel 
<dkessel> i just encountered that bug where while watching a video, the mouse cursor won't come back when moving a mouse. i believe someone reported it for parole the other day
<elfy> check what rww was saying in #ubuntu+1 yesterday http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/23/%23ubuntu+1.html
<elfy> at the end of those really long logs - that might help you 
<dkessel> oh, nice! thanks elfy :)
<elfy> not tried it myself though
<dkessel> let's see
<dkessel> nah. i guess i'll check the past few days' logs manually
<knome> dkessel, it was me, changing the video sink fixed the issue
<dkessel> knome: just found out about that. i see the same thing happening in chrome while watching html5 video...
<slickymasterWork> elfy bug 1425047
<ubottu> bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047
<slickymasterWork> hey knome, dkessel 
<knome> hello slickymasterWork 
<dkessel> hey slickymasterWork 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: yes - now you are back - have you tried again? 
<elfy> I've just run that test - passed here
<dkessel> i get this while watching video in fullscreen. after going back to windowed mode, controls and mouse cursor return
<slickymasterWork> well since it's the same image, I'd expect to achieve the same result elfy 
<elfy> I'm beginning to think that any bugs from vbox shouldn't cause a fail unless replicated on something else
<elfy> slickymasterWork: well yea - but theoretically I've got the same image here :)
<slickymasterWork> I'm assuming you're referring to the b1 image elfy 
<elfy> yes 
<slickymasterWork> that's odd
<elfy> not really - vbox 
<elfy> possibly different vbox version 4.3.22-dfsg-1 here
<slickymasterWork> but what is even odder is the fact that it installs if not partitioning, i.e, entire disk
<slickymasterWork> the axact same here elfy 
<slickymasterWork> exact also
<elfy> right
<Akusari> hello people :-)
<elfy> well I did exactly the same test, manual partition and it passes
<elfy> as I said I'm getting to think that vbox fails shouldn't be
<elfy> slickymasterWork: and you run that from try or install? 
<knome> pleia2, sent the mail, thanks
<slickymasterWork> from what I could gather and figured out the system just couldn't mount /dev/sda2 and that's why whining about not finding a HFS filesystem on dev sda2 
<pleia2> knome: thanks :)
<knome> pleia2, and sorry for not CC'ing, i'm sure you wouldn't have understood most of the message anyway ;)
<pleia2> bork bork
<slickymasterWork> elfy partitioning was run from install 
<elfy> ok - so not livesession? just want to see if I can replicate this in vbox 
<slickymasterWork> entire disk was run from within live session
<slickymasterWork> going to try to run partitioning also from within live session to see if it acts the same wasy
<slickymasterWork> * way
<elfy> slickymasterWork: ok - seeing it 
<slickymasterWork> did you run it from install?
<slickymasterWork> I'm running it now from within live session to see if it acts the same way elfy 
<elfy> I bet you'll see a pass 
<slickymasterWork> pass?! elfy 
<elfy> running both arch's again
<elfy> then I'll check kvm
<elfy> then I'll check hardware
<slickymasterWork> no procrastination for elfy ;)
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy's shoothing for the free stickers
<elfy> well ... 
<elfy> I didn't say then I'll check kvm straight after that
<elfy> knome: well ... if I actually always put my results on the tracker - I'd be miles ahead :p
 * slickymasterWork is shooting for the t-shirts :P
<knome> elfy, j/k :P
<elfy> knome: :)
<elfy> slickymasterWork: when it crashed - did you get any notification? 
<slickymasterWork> nopes, nothing at all
<elfy> just end up at a dead wallpaper?
<slickymasterWork> the slideshow simply disappears 
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<elfy> k
<slickymasterWork> I had to drop to TTY1 and go through the logs to find out what happened 
<elfy> ok - assuming that this is in fact a bug
<slickymasterWork> the way I see it it is, even more if you're able to reproduce it in hardware
<elfy> few things we need to make sure of - 1st it's not just vbox, 2nd - would we expect people to Install or to wander about the livesession and do their installing, 3rd we accept the issues if it is just either only vbox or works everywhere from live
<elfy> I'll boot vbox to get ubiquity debug logs as well 
<slickymasterWork> I'm finish the install from within the live session and at least that will provide us some more info
<slickymasterWork> s/finish/finishing 
<elfy> I've got a pass from within livesession - didn't actually twig the test was for install ... oops
<slickymasterWork> it works from within the live session elfy 
<elfy> 32bit crashed again :D
<slickymasterWork> ^^
<elfy> slickymasterWork: yea - though it would 
<elfy> hopefully this is just 32bit 
<elfy> then I can say - get 64bit :D
<slickymasterWork> thing is, most people will install directly from the 'Install' option, so I'm leaning to consider it as a bug in ubiquity 
<elfy> okey doke - both crashes
<slickymasterWork> elfy, no escape, hit the 'This bug affects you' link :P
<elfy> I already have :)
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> elfy amd64 tag added to the bug report
<slickymasterWork> elfy, you sure you hit the correct bug? bug 1425047
<ubottu> bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047
<elfy> I'm positive
<slickymasterWork> it's odd, it's still with the 'New' status and it ought to be 'Confirmed' then
<elfy> yea it is now
<slickymasterWork> right, it is now
<slickymasterWork> btw elfy, b1 images are also hitting bug 1424561
<ubottu> bug 1424561 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "wrapper-1.0 crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1424561
<elfy> yes
<elfy> slickymasterWork: ok - so talking to people about the install crash now, grabbing some other logs for the bug 
<slickymasterWork> I don't have that box anymore elfy :P
<elfy> ?
<slickymasterWork> aren't you asking me for some other logs?
<elfy> no - I'm doing it :)
<slickymasterWork> :)
<slickymasterWork> bbl ->
<elfy> sigh - all a bit poorly this is :D
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> ochosi: so currently - using manual partitioning - installs appear to crash - but are actually complete if you reboot
<elfy> all work properly from live session 
<elfy> that's vbox and unfortunatel also hardware
<Akusari> Vivid iso beta testing: Is this really the current used default wallpaper or  a graphic error ? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-24022015-200653.php
<Unit193> Akusari: That's the development wallpaper. :D
<Akusari> it looks soooo, well,...not my taste :-P
<knome> fortunately you can change the wallpaper in a modern desktop environment like xfce
<brainvvash> that screenshot reminds me that I wanted to ask if we could add a label to the whiskermenu icon. something like " Menu " (spaces for additional padding)
<brainvvash> the app menu is an important component and the visual representation in the panel is somewhat subtle currently
<brainvvash> adding the label makes it also easier to click
<elfy> adding a label makes something easier to click - I'd love to see that 
<brainvvash> easier to target?
<elfy> well for you you could just set it to icon and text - that should be a big enough target
<brainvvash> I can do that, but I feel like it should be the default
<elfy> and I feel it shouldn't 
<elfy> there we go - 2 different people - 2 opinions :)
<brainvvash> that's ok
<elfy> meanwhile - in real problems - the installer fails without the live session :)
<brainvvash> it's the first thing I notice when looking at the default xubuntu desktop
<brainvvash> so, maybe it could be discussed
<knome> i wonder why these discussions always so up at the last minute
<knome> any ideas why that might be so?
<elfy> nope 
<elfy> but no reason why not to start it in early May I guess
<knome> me neither
<Frostsongr> I like just the icon too
<knome> must be bad luck :P
<brainvvash> late? still plenty of time until 16.04
<brainvvash> not enough supporters, so I'll drop this topic :)
<knome> in a random 15-minute period on a single IRC channel?
<Unit193> We "could" add an icon, and think Xfce does by default, but it end up just taking up space and you'll see other distributions/OSes/etc also don't do this.
<elfy> label
<elfy> there's already an icon :)
<brainvvash> elfy said NO, so I'm not motivated enough to discuss this :D
<knome> if we decide not to add the label, we can voluntell brainvvash to write a FAQ article on enabling the label
<brainvvash> "how to open the properties window?"
<elfy> mmm 
<knome> brainvvash, that's exactly the wording we are after
<elfy> anyone in here know if "cyphermox> elfy: do you know if _NET_NUMBER_OF_DESKTOPS gets used for something special in xfce?"
<elfy> maybe Unit193 or bluesabre :)
 * Unit193 ducks.
<cyphermox> heheh ;)
<cyphermox> I'm trying to find some reason for windows to show up outside the screen
<Unit193> Can't remember if it is xfsettingsd, xfwm4, or xfdesktop that uses it.  WHy do you ask?
<cyphermox> so far, not much to go on
<cyphermox> either _NET_NUMBER_OF_DESKTOPS, and/or _NET_DESKTOP_NAMES
<elfy> that said - probably just about anyone but me :)
<elfy> cyphermox: lol - forgot you were in here :)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/4YdQrp9eHW3Z7qi31HGU
<elfy> cyphermox: tbh - any question like that - better to try in here than me I'm afraid 
<cyphermox> elfy: ok
 * ranu is wondering why Thunderbird is too slow to load the inbox and the selected messages :(
<ranu> but that's off topic, so >.>
<Akusari> vivid beta1 iso testing: manual partition has some trouble... i'm collecting data...
<elfy> Akusari: yes - we know - bug 1425047
<ubottu> bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047
<Akusari> more or les the same i'm adding data
<elfy> as long as it's to that bug :)
<elfy> you'll find that on reboot it's worked I suspect
<elfy> with entire disc you'll find it's not there to work with - but you can find it and move it onto desktop
<elfy> you'll find also it's hardware as well as vm's :)
<Unit193> Well that's a simple answer, don't use ubiquity to install!
 * Unit193 ducks.
<Akusari> ok. data added to your bug :-)
<elfy> Unit193: actually - don't not use the live-session :p
<Akusari> let me check a "forced" reboot
<knome> actually, just don't do installs, always upgrade:P
<Unit193> elfy: Oh so this is more 'install only' issues?  Well that's simple.
 * elfy has almost rewritten xubuntu image tests to only use livesession :D
<elfy> Unit193: yea - currently 4/5ths of tests will be a mash of fails and passes and confusion :)
<Akusari> well, i noticed a download tio
<Akusari> timeout
<Akusari> during the installtion. that's why i shipped the installer archiv :-)
<sidi> guiding my little brother in his first xub install
<sidi> he needs to build his wifi driver manually
<sidi> over google hangout, very fun :-)
<elfy> :)
<Akusari> The timout happend here: (was killed later on and run again) http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-24022015-212516.php 
<Unit193> elfy: Not sure if you test ll from staging, but re-upped (well, give it a minute to build.)
<elfy> Unit193: I don't *test* but I do use it and staging 
<Unit193> Ah, well this is more suspend stuff.
<elfy> ok - well I can use that too if it needs some testing
<elfy> not something I use often - but can do :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Re: new ll (as of a few minutes ago.)
<elfy> Unit193: what was this update to ll for re suspend ?
<Unit193> Better integration with systemd/upower and such.
<Unit193> Think might be laptop related.
<elfy> aah - not going to see that then ;)
<slickymaster> elfy, in ny installs it didn't worked on reboot
<slickymaster> in fact it always went to the installer slideshow again
<slickymaster> s/ny/my
<elfy> and if you unmounted the image?
<slickymaster> didn't try that :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> it IS obviously all a bit on the fubar side for sure
<elfy> but if nothing changes between now and Thursday - we've choice of not releasing or releasing and making it a Big Red Known Notice :p
<slickymaster> yeaps
<elfy> I'm assuming that those who can are looking at what's up with that 
<slickymaster> you and I
<elfy> I could look at the code if you thought I'd not just go an put the kettle on :D
<slickymaster> lol
<Unit193> elfy: I take it using the "old" menu doesn't help?
<elfy> the boot one? 
<Unit193> syslinux, right.
<elfy> ie the one behind the language? 
<Unit193> Yep.
<elfy> if so - no - same issue if you choose Install
<slickymaster> yeah, eventualy we'll end up in the same place
<elfy> trying to remember which different options I've tried today 
<slickymaster> irc you went through tem all elfy 
<slickymaster> * them
<Akusari> good night :-)
<Akusari> my holly bed is waiting ^^
<elfy> slickymaster: I thought so ... just lost count :p
<elfy> night all
<elfy> I'll look for pings for this issue in the morning 
<knome> nighty elfy 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-25
<bluesabre> knome: heyo
<knome> wahh
<knome> :)
<knome> oh, haha
<knome> wrong channel :)
<bluesabre> ;)
<bluesabre> but yeah, I think it will be the same as any SRU... we'll bring in releases that fix really prominent bugs
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> there we go
<bluesabre> exactly 140 characters
<bluesabre> "@Yanpask @Xubuntu As with any SRU, we will work to include releases that resolve high-impact bugs (http://bit.ly/1MPLF1t) affecting Trusty."
<bluesabre> knome: sound good?
<knome> wfm
 * knome thinks the bluesabre twitter page is creepy with those grinning seans
<knome> retweeted
<bluesabre> knome: indeed, not sure when I got a nice background pic there
<bluesabre> but its a bit much
<knome> yes, it's a bit much ;)
<bluesabre> knome: mind if I chop up a xubuntu wallpaper for my bg?
<knome> not at all
<pleia2> grinning seans <3
<Unit193> Where is he grinning?
<knome> Unit193, in his twitter page
<knome> https://twitter.com/bluesabredavis
<knome> well he removed the other pic too
<knome> s/too/already/
<Unit193> Ah, that's why.
<knome> bluesabre, that orange is the best wallpaper cut i've ever seen
<bluesabre> knome: it burns >.<
<knome> bluesabre, did you have one of those good monitors? :P
<bluesabre> there we go, thats an improvement
 * bluesabre is not sure if the question has a good or bad connotation
<knome> bluesabre, well if you have a better monitor, i don't wonder why it hurts... :P
<knome> that's a weird cut, but ok :D
<knome> bluesabre, why didn't you snatch the one from the xubuntu page while you were at it? :P
<knome> bluesabre, https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/430282295/1397646039/1500x500
<gmbs> Hi, folks. I'm Greg Blumenthal. I want to thank Elizabeth K. Joseph and everyone else at xubuntu.org for the opportunity to talk about Xubuntu in my work.
<knome> hey gmbs, thank *you* :)
<gmbs> Sheesh, it's been over 20 years since I last spent any time on IRC. Looks like the net-splits don't go away, huh?
<bluesabre> knome: was going for the artsy-fartsy, ended up with more fartsy
<knome> bluesabre, hehe
<knome> gmbs, yeah, it's a never-ending story...
<knome> gmbs, btw, if you hang around long enough, elizabeth will surely pop up, pleia2 is her nick :)
<knome> oh, heh :)
<knome> scared them away...
<knome> gmbs, welcome back ;)
<gmbs> NOW I remember IRC
<knome> gmbs, if you didn't see this --> btw, if you hang around long enough, elizabeth will surely pop up, pleia2 is her nick :)
<gmbs> I need to go make dinner for the family. I'll be back later.
<knome> bon appetit!
<gmbs> <--- not another net-split
<bluesabre> gmbs: they might have even gotten worse :)
<knome> heh
<cyphermox> Unit193: could I get you or bluesabre (or any other xubuntu dev really) to look into how we can properly start the xfce session in ubiquity-dm to fix the dialog positioning issues elfy pointed out today?
<cyphermox> Unit193: I noticed you made some changes before in ubiquity, I tried to revert them in case and it didn't fix things, but when I completely disable xfwm4 (not starting it at all) then ubiquity starts in the center of the screen as it should
<cyphermox> so I'm thinking it might be something that isn't quite right in what programs are started to bring up the xfce session, or the order in which they get started
<Unit193> cyphermox: Sure, though of course I'd volunteer bluesabre for you.
<bluesabre> 20:48:31        bluesabre | brainvvash: registered now https://launchpad.net/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin
<bluesabre> everybody have fun splitting?
<brainvvash> thanks for creating the project site
<bluesabre> I think I've linked everything appropriately
<bluesabre> if gottcode shows up, let him know about it as well... I'll reassign admin of it to him if he wants it
<brainvvash> it shows only the vivid series, is this expected?
<brainvvash> https://launchpad.net/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/+packages
<bluesabre> fixed
<brainvvash> awesome
<cyphermox> bluesabre: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/25/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t01:53
<bluesabre> cyphermox: thanks, I'll take a look at that
<cyphermox> thanks
<cyphermox> I'm logging off for the night now, back in standard working hours for EST timezone
<Unit193> bluesabre: Why'd you do/need that?
<bluesabre> Unit193: hm?
<Unit193> whisker on LP.
<bluesabre> has the benefit of pointing people upstream, and being able to do daily builds and whatnot
<bluesabre> and
<bluesabre> brainvvash requested it, and it seemed sane enough
<bluesabre> (and is one of the easiest things I can do on a Tuesday night)
<brainvvash> it's useful, indeed
<bluesabre> cyphermox: thanks, have a good night
<Unit193> Heh, well I'd take that over cleaning and caulking the bathroom, so want to trade? :P
<bluesabre> noop
<Unit193> cyphermox: And EST FTW!
<cyphermox> Unit193: yay
 * bluesabre high fives Unit193 and cyphermox
<bluesabre> Unit193: re http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/25/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t01:53 any ideas off the top of your head?
<Unit193> I punted to you. :P
<Unit193> All I hear is that I didn't break it.
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre begins the download
<Unit193> Ah, looks like 3.19 will land after beta freeze is up.
<bluesabre> oh cool
<Unit193> bluesabre: Try an older xfwm, just for kicks, with ubiquity?
<bluesabre> yeah, going to try that and a few other things
<Unit193> Not xfce 11059 or something I'd presume?
<ubottu> xfce bug 11059 in General "[PATCH] Too much space reserved for panel when external VGA output unplugged" [Normal,Reopened] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11059
<gmbs> Hi again, folks. I'm Greg Blumenthal. I want to thank Elizabeth K. Joseph and everyone else at xubuntu.org for the opportunity to talk about Xubuntu in my work
<gmbs> If anyone has any questions about how and why I install Xubuntu for small business desktop use in Mexico, I am happy to answer.
<elfy> bluesabre: perhaps we should have been happy with black background to the try/install :)
<ochosi> hey everyone
<slickymasterWork> hey ochosi 
 * ochosi is still on a train on his way home
<ochosi> knome: therefore ^ not sure i'll make it in time for the meeting
<bluesabre> elfy: indeed :D
<ochosi> hey bl	
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> stupid mobile internet screws things up with being slow
<ochosi> in case you're not going to make the meeting tonight, i wanted to discuss 4.12 for trusty with you
<bluesabre> ochosi: hey
<bluesabre> whats up?
<ochosi> i guess the general question is whether we try a huge SRU or go for the PPA version
<bluesabre> did you see my tweet?
<ochosi> sorry, i was away since sunday
<ochosi> so i've only seen very few updates lately
<bluesabre> https://twitter.com/bluesabredavis/status/570387123024433152
<ochosi> did you do an @xubuntu tweet or are you on twitter too?
<bluesabre> knome wanted my unofficial response as XTL
<ochosi> k
<bluesabre> and then retweeted as @xubuntu
<bluesabre> but yeah, no need for a full SRU into trusty
<ochosi> ok good
<bluesabre> we update components that have major bugs, leave the others alone until major bugs might be found
<ochosi> righty
<bluesabre> oho, that was definitely a systemd boot message on the b1 iso
<bluesabre> elfy: you around?
<brainvvash> bluesabre, there are some panel wrapper crash reports
<brainvvash> I told you about my systray crash, probably triggered by the task manager
<brainvvash> not reproducible tough
<ochosi> bluesabre: did i miss much else?
<bluesabre> ochosi: elfy/cyphermox found an issue with the b1 iso (32bit only maybe?) where the/a window is drawn offscreen
<bluesabre> or thats how I understand it
<bluesabre> in ubiquity
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> that's not much fun
<bluesabre> trying to reproduce now to see if I can find the cause
<ochosi> i wonder how that could happen
<ochosi> i thought ubiquity runs a couple of commands to ensure it's centered
<bluesabre> wanted to test it last night, but the iso took forever to download
<ochosi> i'll try to take a look on friday
<bluesabre> b1 is thursday :P
<ochosi> today i'm travelling and tomorrow i have a packed day
<ochosi> yeah well, luckily it's only a beta ;)
<bluesabre> heh
<ochosi> i think with xfdesktop running you could try to open a terminal
<bluesabre> oh
<ochosi> in the ubiquity-dm session
<bluesabre> another fun one
<ochosi> so that could help with debugging
<ochosi> that could also be a reason for this happening btgw
<bluesabre> https://imgur.com/hxmrz2d
<ochosi> because we didn't really resolve the black background issue, we "painted over it"
<ochosi> wow, that looks super-shitty :)
<bluesabre> no, its resolved... we paint the background black and then open xfdesktop, no different than the root pixmap and xfdesktop we do for a normal session
<bluesabre> er, a tiny bit different
<ochosi> i think thta's xfwm4 removing the window frame because it thinks the window is tiled
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> (can we remove that please)
<bluesabre> thats an annoying feature
<bluesabre> or add a switch
<ochosi> so that's clearly a bug
<ochosi> in xfwm4
<brainvvash> bluesabre, a new window should not be tiled automatically, is that a regression?
<bluesabre> I'd prefer that window frame never be removed, especially if tiled
<ochosi> i think there is no such option yet
<ochosi> afai've noticed this sort of bug already with other windows in the session too btw
<bluesabre> afa indeed
<ochosi> bleh, stupid slow internet laaag
<bluesabre> honestly, probably not the best idea for all changes to land in xfce 2-3 weeks before release
<bluesabre> 2-3 years of development stability, final burst of features
<bluesabre> (and bugs)
<slickymasterWork> dkessel, can you please check this string -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+pots/desktop-guide/de/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=einmal+in+2+Jahren
<slickymasterWork> why aren't the <guilabel></guilabel> tags present in the translated string?
<slickymasterWork> also I've just upload a de.po file to the branch with several corrections regarding translated Docbook tags
<bluesabre> elfy, Unit193: it looks like the window is opening on the very right-most pixel
<bluesabre> that also seems to be where xfwm thinks things should go
<bluesabre> if you can open a terminal and drag it to the far left, it will tile itself back on that right-most pixel
<ochosi> bluesabre: should be this commit in xfwm4 6f6604a338e24a1df45d0cb97c2c0ec5cd205b62
<ochosi> not sure about the "optional" part though
<bluesabre> elfy, Unit193: it seems like a regression, installing xfwm4 from utopic makes new windows appear on the right display
<bluesabre> though the bug seems to be linked to tiling... if I drag a window to the left corner, it tiles to the right pixel even in older releases
<bluesabre> ochosi: is there a way to disable tiling?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i
<ochosi> 'm looking up the key for you, one sec
<bluesabre> k, going to hop in the shower in the meantime, bbiab
<ochosi> it's /xfwm4/general/tile_on_move
<ochosi> maybe we can disable that for ubiquity
<ochosi> or in general, if that's the only way
<dkessel> slickymasterWork: oh right - i fixed the one with the missing <guilabel> tags
<dkessel> slickymasterWork: anything else you noticed about the translation?
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks
<bluesabre> elfy, Unit193: won't have a chance to test this morning, but if you get a chance, maybe try the following command in a terminal (ctrl-alt-t or right-click desktop to get a terminal) before the installer finishes
<bluesabre> xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/tile_on_move -s false
<brainvvash> bluesabre, and this is a 32bit only issue?
<bluesabre> brainvvash: not sure
<brainvvash> sounds strange :)
<bluesabre> the iso takes so long to download, only been able to test 32bit since I saw a mention of it
<bluesabre> I'll test with a version of ubiquity from utopic later and other variations to figure out the exact issue
<elfy> bluesabre: arch agnosti
<elfy> that command returns nothing
<elfy> but that's before the installer starts as it's invisble :)
<bluesabre> yeah, the command returns nothing, just sets tiling off
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> check the right-most pixel for a window border
<bluesabre> things hide over there
<elfy> alt+space+m moving them :)
<elfy> yep - cya later 
<elfy> bluesabre: ok - made no difference - after install finishes the install complete notification was off screen somewhere - BUT - grabbing it and moving it onto desktop - it says install is completel
<ochosi> ok, so we mostly have a window managing problem there
<elfy> ochosi: seems so - other than it being a bit pants - I'm not completely panicking :)
<elfy> I want to do some double checking that it all works from live session as expected - if that's the case then I'd +1 releasing with a Big Known Issue if you 2 wanted to 
<elfy> and assuming it's not fixed by tomorrow ofc
<slickymasterWork> great dkessel, thanks for that
<slickymasterWork> other than ^^, just a few occurrences of the closing tag </filename> being translated 
<slickymasterWork> and I already upload a de.po file correcting those
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, i guess that'd be ok
<ochosi> not sure we'll be able to figure things out until tomorrow
<slickymasterWork> GridCube, can you please normalize the 'Settings Manager' entity in the Spanish translations of the -docs. So far there's translated entries as "Administrador de configuraciÃ³n", "ConfiguraciÃ³n" and "Settings Manager"
<knome> and please use the name used in the menu
<GridCube> in the menu if you hover it says "Toda la configuraciÃ³n" but the title of the Settings Manager just says "ConfiguraciÃ³n"
<slickymasterWork> yet another entry GridCube, "configuraciÃ³n" (this one is the same as the previous, but the initial C is not capitalized)
<knome> GridCube, use the one in the menu
<GridCube> thats what whiskers say, in the xfce menu it says "Administrador de configuraciÃ³n"
<GridCube> as whiskers is default i guess i should use "Toda la configuraciÃ³n" then?
<knome> hmm
<knome> what are the literal translations for those?
<slickymasterWork> at least you should choose one and make it default through all the docs GridCube 
<knome> i actually believe the one from the regular menu is the one that comes from xfce
<knome> the one in whisker is probably whisker-specific
<slickymasterWork> I'm under the same impression knome 
<knome> i'd use the one from xfce
<GridCube> "all settings" (toda la configuracion), "settings" (configuraciÃ³n), "settings manager" (administrador de configuraciÃ³n)
<GridCube> knome: makes sense
<knome> use the one that is the "real" translation for the original string (settings manager)
<slickymasterWork> GridCube, if you're going to work on it right now please tell me, because I'm working on the es.po and I'll stop until you've finished
<GridCube> so what it says in the xfce menu
<GridCube> slickymasterWork: even if i make a change, the translation team might take days to aprove myc hanges
<slickymasterWork> aren't you also reviewer GridCube?
<GridCube> nope
<GridCube> was never accepted
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll continue then, and upload all the corrections to malformed and translated tags
<GridCube> ok, i'll make the suggestions then
<slickymasterWork> great, thanks GridCube ;)
<slickymasterWork> as you're on it GridCube, there's one other proposed entry for 'Settings Manager' -> "Gestor de de configuraciÃ³n" :P
<GridCube> yes
<knome> don't confuse this any more :P
<GridCube> thats not good
 * slickymasterWork thinks that this just shows the richness of the Latin idioms 
<GridCube> i saw it
<GridCube> ok, done
<GridCube> all 26 instances where "settings manager" was now says "administraciÃ³n de configuraciÃ³n" as from the xfce menu lists
<GridCube> notice again that this is different from whiskers and from what the window title says
<knome> even the english dialog says just "Settings"
<GridCube> ok :)
<knome> i don't use whiskermenu though
<knome> "All Settings" there
<knome> so ti's in line with english
<GridCube> i've sent a mail to the translations team leader asking for review
<slickymasterWork> one other thing I noticed GridCube, is that most of the times Â« Â» are used in spite of " " and that breaks the code
<slickymasterWork> I'm already fixing those ^^^
<GridCube> no idea how to get << >>
<slickymasterWork> in Portuguese keyboards it's the key immediately to the left of the 'Backspace' key 
<GridCube> Â¡Â¿~
<GridCube> thats what that key contains
<knome> altgr+shift+8/9
<GridCube> i think that the idea is not to use them anyway
<knome> slickymasterWork, you can use &laquo; and &raquo; if you want to use them... :P
<knome> i'm sure it's some sort of convention
<slickymasterWork> but the script is escaping the occurrences of " " -> \" blÃ¡ blÃ¡ \"
<knome> eh
<slickymasterWork> like this knome: "<xref linkend=\"software-repositories-restricted\"/>
<slickymasterWork> you can't use <xref linkend=Â«software-repositories-restrictedÂ»/>
<knome> oh right...
<knome> that's clearly wrong that Â«Â» there
<knome> would be nice to know again who is doing that
<knome> because they aren't helping at all with that stuff we have to fix after they did it
 * slickymasterWork is reviewing the file in poeditor
<slickymasterWork> GridCube, ping
<GridCube> yes
<slickymasterWork> can I ask you another favor? 'Network Manager' and 'Gestor de redes'
<slickymasterWork> can you also normalize that?
<GridCube> slickymasterWork: i cant find "network manager"
<GridCube> oh, its networkmanager all thogheter
<slickymasterWork> yes :)
<GridCube> should it just stay "NetworkManager"?
<GridCube> if you hover the applet it doesnt say anything, and the window from Edit says "Conexiones de red"
<GridCube> but the app in alt-tab says "nm connection editor"
<GridCube> i don't know what to do
<slickymasterWork> I use Conexiones de red, GridCube 
<slickymasterWork> S/I use/I would use
<GridCube> alright
<GridCube> done
<slickymasterWork> thanks GridCube 
<GridCube> de nada
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<knome> !team | meeting in 30min
<ubottu> meeting in 30min: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<slickymasterWork> desktop-guide-es.po reviewd for malformed and translated tags an uploaded to the branch
<dkessel> i am also here to tune in to the meeting
<knome> dkessel, oh but you're not allowed
<dkessel> yeah, sure :p
<knome> didn't you know that when the meeting is on wednesdays, people whose nick starts with d can't participate
<knome> boo, you didn't take the bait :(
<knome> of course you can participate...
<dkessel> ;)
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 25 17:00:59 2015 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> who's here for the meeting?
 * GridCube is here as a listener today
<elfy> be about make a cup of tea time - just got in
<knome> GridCube, non-team members can talk just as well :P
<GridCube> i know :P but i'll probably have nothing to say
<GridCube> this is the first meeting i can join in years
<knome> #topic Open action items
<knome>     Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs 
<knome> did that happen?
<elfy> no 
<knome> #action Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs 
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
<knome> rests seems done
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> #info The new website theme (with fixes) is live!!!
<elfy> I have loads 
<knome> just pour them in :)
<elfy> right - I'm here now
<elfy> though loads is probably 3 or 4 :p
<knome> haha
<elfy> #info Trusty testing - once we had a testable image - went well - 94 reported results for that 
<knome> \o/
<PaulW2U> knome: Colour scheme of website is good but not sure about the shade of green
<elfy> #info First count for QA incentive will be done by Sunday for ochosi to approve
<knome> PaulW2U, we're in the middle of a meeting, can you give the feedback after this, thanks
<elfy> #info vivid beta testing is not going too well with the known issue, release team need to make a decision
<knome> elfy, can you summarize where it happens?
<elfy> #action xubuntu-release to discuss state of vivid beta and release position
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-release to discuss state of vivid beta and release position
<elfy> knome: yes - any of the install options appear to cause various issues
<knome> ouch..
<knome> xubuntu-specific only or general?
<elfy> I need to check the live session install options - they *appear* ok 
<elfy> xubuntu-specific it seems
<knome> hmpf
<knome> my opinion, not that i'm in the release team or the team lead, is that it would be important to get beta out for exploratory testing (people are interested in betas)
<elfy> of course while that specific info is just one line - it's a big one :p
<knome> if we can only make the system to install more or less cleanly..
<slickymasterWork> ftr, ^^^ that's bug 1425047
<ubottu> bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047
<elfy> slickymasterWork: it's not just that I'm afraid :)
<slickymasterWork> great, here I was thinking it was just sinply that :P
<elfy> kvm - don't even see the screen to install from :)
<knome> apparently there could be a trivial fix to that
<knome> but not landing before the beta
<knome> elfy, or did you test that already?
<elfy> not seen anything about fix
<elfy> test what? 
<knome> aha
<knome> bluesabre sent you a line to turn off tiling
<elfy> oh if you mean bluesabre's xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/tile_on_move -s false
<knome> he also said something about running with utopic ubiquity to debug it
<knome> yes
<knome> that
<elfy> my result of that is [13:21] <elfy> bluesabre: ok - made no difference
<knome> right :(
<knome> well, let's hope we can fix it ASAP
<knome> anything else for the team updates?
<elfy> but all is not lost - it IS installable 
<knome> yep :)
<elfy> just not from all options easily 
<knome> yeah..
<dkessel> maybe we should send a mail to the ML informing about known working installation options
<elfy> hardware testing for all install options from livesession is not something that I can do 
<elfy> dkessel: they'd be on the release note 
<knome> elfy, what can't you?
<elfy> all that I CAN do is manual 
<knome> oh ok
<knome> well i don't think that makes much difference if the problems are related to window positioning though
<knome> but what do i know... :)
<elfy> basically all of the dialogues are off screen 
<knome> yep
<knome> since it's likely that's an xfwm bug, it shouldn't stop one from installing 
<elfy> you can grab them - make sure has focus then alt+space+m then you can select move and grab it 
<knome> if you can get the windows to be visible, that is
<knome> yep
<elfy> yep - I just need time to work through all the options I can do - vm's and hardware 
<knome> let's follow up on this when bluesabre gets back :)
<knome> any other team updates?
<knome> slickymasterWork?
<slickymasterWork> ups sorry
<slickymasterWork> no closed from my side
<slickymasterWork> s/no/nothing
<knome> #done pleia2 published a "Xubuntu at..." blog post
<knome> ok, moving on
<slickymasterWork> working on a bunch of things, still
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info Xfce 4.12 is to be released next weekend
<knome> #info Team has got an ACK for a FFe for 4.12 uploads, will be uploaded once everything has settled
<knome> any other announcements?
<knome> #info Next freezes: UIFreeze March 12, DocStringFreeze March 19
<elfy> not that I'm aware of 
<knome> #topic Discussion
<knome> i believe the core upgrade issue should be solved now
<knome> #subtopic ISO target size
<knome> anybody have comments on this?
<elfy> yes
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-February/010606.html
<knome> go ahead :)
<elfy> my position is (and isn't likely to change) that we shouldn't constrain ourselves by the 1Gb limit - however that doesn't equate to woohoo - we've got 2 Gb - fill that space up 
<knome> yep
<elfy> we should bear in mind people that might have bandwidth issues 
<knome> this is what i thought when i wrote:
<knome> My suggestion on the meeting was that if we go over 1GB, our new target
<knome> should be "below or as close to 1GB as possible, but 2GB at maximum".
<knome> i think we just need a team vote on this
<elfy> yep
<slickymasterWork> that's also my position, as I already said in the ML
<knome> #action knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion
<GridCube> as i said in the ML i think we should not limit to a size, but neither go adding stuff for the sake of it, just try to remain the smaller posible without feeling constrained 
<elfy> GridCube: that I think is more or less what everyone is saying 
<GridCube> mmhm
<knome> the technical limitation is "required" in order to the trackers to be able to notice when we've gone over a specified limit
<knome> but yeah, i don't think 2GB is really a problem, even if we decided to go ahead with the office stack change
<knome> Unit193's figures for that were like 1.1GB...
<Akusari> hello, sorry for my delay :-/
<elfy> knome: yea
<knome> #nick Unit193
<knome> (needed that for the action item)
<elfy> and on THAT note we need to try tie those other discussion into agenda
<knome> but then again 1.2GB target makes no sense, there is no 1.2GB hardware :D
<elfy> you can action me to do both of those
<knome> elfy, the other things that are already on the agenda? :D
<knome> i think it's next to useless to try to discuss them today since we are few-numbered
<elfy> knome: yea - so limit should be 2 - that doesn't mean that [team] is going to +1 filling it up
<knome> yep
<elfy> knome: there is also the game issue
<knome> right
<knome> #action elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda
<knome> happy?
<knome> :)
<elfy> I'd not say that :p
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<knome> #chair elfy
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy knome
<elfy> LOL
<elfy> ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda
<elfy> I meant I'd not say I was happy :D
<knome> :D
<Akusari> lol
<knome> #action elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda
<knome> #subtopic Any other discussion
<elfy> oh silly me - forgot the #
<knome> anything else?
<knome> too bad PaulW2U got scared and left...
<elfy> nothing from me 
<knome> slickymasterWork, want to bring up something?
<slickymasterWork> nopes, nothing at the moment 
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<elfy> ochosi for that I think 
<knome> #info ochosi schedules the next meeting (XPL duty)
<knome> yep
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb 25 17:32:04 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-02-25-17.00.moin.txt
<knome> thanks everybody
<slickymasterWork> but we still have to find a common schedule to finish the installer slideshow, knome, elfy 
<knome> i'll set the minutes up in a minute
<elfy> knome: thanks
<knome> slickymasterWork, can do that now
<slickymasterWork> yes
<slickymasterWork> this weekend?
<elfy> I'll send a mail to the list re hardware tests installing from livesession 
<knome> sunday is not working for me
<knome> unless it's $late
<Akusari> while you guys sitting down in a team meeeting, i was working on the installer # bug 1425047 :-P
<ubottu> bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047
<knome> well make that $very_late
<slickymasterWork> late won't work for me, beacuse the little one
<knome> mhm
<knome> i can't promise anything for saturday either
<slickymasterWork> saturday?
<knome> no clear plans yet
<elfy> Friday evening?
<knome> wait
<slickymasterWork> wfm
<slickymasterWork> your evening means what time elfy?
<slickymasterWork> after 21:: UTC?
<slickymasterWork> * 21:00
<elfy> till midnightish UTC 
<slickymasterWork> wfm
<Akusari> that's what i call late :-P
<knome> considering we aren't on the move, works for me too, but not sure yet
<knome> i would place my bets on monday
<knome> even if that's not weekend..
<elfy> and after first food if I'm awake that late - cos I'd need second food too :p
<slickymasterWork> monday is good for me also
<elfy> mmm - mon-wed night I can be about - just not so late 
<slickymasterWork> lol, we'll bring extra food elfy 
<knome> elfy, pick a time
<elfy> knome: monday? 
<knome> elfy, yep
<elfy> 1900 or 2000 
<knome> slickymasterWork, which one works for you?
<elfy> depends how long we think it's going to go on
<knome> i'd hope ~30-45mins
<slickymasterWork> both, I'll postponed diner 
<elfy> also knome and I can start looking at poll first I guess
<knome> 19utc then?
<knome> i mean,
<slickymasterWork> you got yourselves a date then gentlemen 
<knome> let's go through things that we need to work on together
<knome> slickymasterWork, a 2-way?
<knome> we can action the actual content writing for later/we can do that alone
<slickymasterWork> not with you... you demon 
<knome> :P
<Akusari> and next time i'll ask you boys where i can do more help and support (expect iso-testing) :-) Probably you have some ideas for me :-)
<knome> Akusari, next what time?
<knome> slickymasterWork, elfy: so 19UTC monday?
<slickymasterWork> there were already some work items attributed 
<slickymasterWork> wfm
<Akusari> after next meeting i thought
<Akusari> i'd like to have some tasks :-)
<Akusari> but i'm not sure what i can do
<Akusari> i'll continue iso-testing anyway (for sure)
<slickymasterWork> Akusari, do you master any other idiom besides english?
<slickymasterWork> Akusari, do you master any other idiom besides english?
<Akusari> german
<slickymasterWork> here's something for you to help with .> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010516.html
<Akusari> why do you ask ?
<elfy> knome: ack 
<slickymasterWork> see my previous post Akusari 
<slickymasterWork> here's something for you to help with .> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010516.html
<Akusari> sounds not bad
<Akusari> i can do a german translation of course
<slickymasterWork> if you feel you need any help with anything, please fell free to ping me
<knome> addaed our sprint to the calendar
<knome> and minutes are up
<Akusari> ok :-)
<slickymasterWork> lol knome, you're spamming my phone :P
<knome> slickymasterWork, i'm wondering whether we should also set up translation guidelines
<elfy> ok - mail to list re beta hardware from live session gone
<knome> slickymasterWork, eg. don't translate tags, always use the UI transation name for application names (re: todays discussion)
<slickymasterWork> translations wise
<knome> slickymasterWork, that might save us a lot of this work you've done today..
<slickymasterWork> agree knome, noe that it finally feels that some of the initial inertia has gone 
<slickymasterWork> and been doing for the last five days 
<knome> i mean that was always obvious to me, but people who are new to translations, maybe not
<slickymasterWork> the desktop-guide-fi.po was an absolute mess
<Akusari> wow
<knome> slickymasterWork, ;)
<knome> and i'm sure there are guides for this, but they are very long and hard to read
<Akusari> ok, i need to go....cu later or tomorrow :-)
<knome> slickymasterWork, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation
<slickymasterWork> no, something practical, based on what we've being catching as the major errors being sone
<knome> maybe we could also just try to improve that page...
<knome> or use that as a base at least
<slickymasterWork> I thought you were referring to something that would be added to our Process page knome 
<knome> there seems to be a lot of unnecessary stuff
 * knome shrugs
<knome> the processes page starts to expand quickly :P
<knome> but maybe it can go there as well
<slickymasterWork> I was think of juast a small section about it
<knome> but if there's an existing page somebody else maintains...
<knome>  In Ubuntu 11.04, the principal Ubuntu help documentation is found in the gnome-user-docs package. 
<knome> seems like not maintained lately .P
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation is a bit a wall of text
<knome> yes
<knome> there's a lot of ubuntu-specific stuff
<slickymasterWork> the way I see it is like this:
<knome> and i'm sure, obsolete stuff too
<slickymasterWork> we have a notion of what are the major errors people are making
<slickymasterWork> in fact they're just three-four types
<knome> they are the items 1-3 in the first list
<slickymasterWork> so there's a error pattern 
<knome> plus i'd add that it's important to translate application names literally as they appear in the UI
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<knome> because when we tell somebody to follow a path, they shouldn't need to do guesswork while following
<knome> do you have 10 minutes now?
<slickymasterWork> if the phone doesn't ring
<slickymasterWork> yes
<knome> haha
<slickymasterWork> we can do it now
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-translation-guidelines
<slickymasterWork> knome: did you saw my question?
<knome> yes, see the chat
<slickymasterWork> lol, forgot the pad chat
<ochosi> hey dolks
<ochosi> erm, folks too
<ochosi> sorry i didn't make it for the meeting
<ochosi> i'll quickly read the backlog and all
<ochosi> unfortunately i still have some other work to finish tonight :/
<elfy> ochosi: such is life :)
<elfy> most important thing as far as I'm concerned is read my mail to dev list and do something if you can :)
<elfy> if you can't you can't :)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, i guess we have to try and get that issue fixed..
<ochosi> could you quickly describe it to me so i know how/where to look?
<ochosi> or is it so obvious that i can't miss it?
<elfy> ochosi: boot image - once at the try/install dialogue - choose install (that's what the tests all call for) then you should either get blank desktop
<elfy> or you can install, then it goes blank apparently having died
<elfy> what is happening is that the dialogues are 'offscreen' so you can focus and drag them so you can seem them
<elfy> what I am trying to test as completely as possible is that everything works from livesession install icon
<elfy> if so - I'd ack release tomorrow - but we need to make the issue as plain as day on r'notes
<elfy> I'll try and get a summary onto a pad tonight
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> i wonder whether the screen size is miscalculated somehow
<elfy> basically atm all we need is some people to hardware test as many options as possible 
<ochosi> i guess the problem you mention happens both with vm and hardware?
<elfy> ochosi: no idea I'm afraid - I did try bluesabre thing - no go 
<elfy> yep - had the same on hardware here
<ochosi> k
<elfy> if it WAS just vm's - I would *shrug* 
<ochosi> i'll do a quick vm trial in a bit then
<elfy> ochosi: okey doke 
<ochosi> any preference whether i do that in 32 or 64bit?
<ochosi> or is it all the same atm
<elfy> please make sure if you report that you do comment as I asked in the mail 
<elfy> it makes no difference 
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> just started the zsync
<elfy> thanks ochosi :)
<slickymasterWork> knome, I assume you're already adding the pad content to the Processes page, right?
<slickymasterWork> or do you want me to do it?
<knome> not yet adding
<knome> i'm wondering whether we should drop it there, or do something else
<knome> we've discussed about the contributor documentation for a while..
<slickymasterWork> there, where? In the Pad?
<knome> this would be the first item that clearly would be suitable for that
<slickymasterWork> now you lost me knome
<slickymasterWork> og, for membership, you meean?
<slickymasterWork> - e
<knome> you remember the discussions about potentially writing some documentation for new contributors?
<slickymasterWork> yes
<knome> well this is it as much as anything is
<knome> so maybe we shouldn't bury this under the processes stuff
<slickymasterWork> well it's a side of it, anyway
<knome> the package translations is something else that could go there
<slickymasterWork> because if I remember it correctly, we also talked about writiing something on how to write documentation
<knome> i think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Maintenance is the poster child of non-new-contributor stuff
<knome> this is clearly something that is targeted to people who know $things already
<knome> but.. i guess the line is thing
<knome> *thin
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development  this is the page i think this should go to
<slickymasterWork> hmmm, that page is to buried it further than the Process one
<knome> but then again i'm not sure if it's a good fit there currently
<slickymasterWork> I was talking about the Maintenance one 
<knome> well anything under processes is more or less buried now
<knome> since i cleaned the starting page
<knome> which had became a wall of text
<knome> now it isn't and the stuff is organized by the target people
<knome> and/or usage needs
<knome> i would consider the current processes page more of a cheatsheet
<knome> the new guidelines we wrote are much more of a documentation type thing
<slickymasterWork> as we stand now, the only logical candidate I see is indeed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development
<knome> some of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/ReleaseCycle is that too, but that's because it used to be in the strategy document
<knome> yes, but don't you agree that it's not really a good fit there?
<slickymasterWork> so, it's either https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development or create a new one just focused in Documentation 
<knome> i guess the difference i'm trying to communicate is:
<slickymasterWork> yes, I agree 
<knome> the current stuff under development is specific by the xubuntu team
<knome> *specifiED
<slickymasterWork> right
<knome> the new guidelines are specified by XML, eg. we *must* do this
<knome> there's no way we can control how xml tags are interpreted
<knome> the conventions... well, those are more xubuntu-specific, but then again they are very closely tied with the validity requirements in a social level
<slickymasterWork> hmmm... aren't you starting to overthinking it knome?
<knome> no, i'm just making sure that future things we do have a clear place to go to
<knome> eg. if we want it all to be buried in a wiki that will eventually become a monster to maintain
<knome> or do something else
<knome> well think about this:
<knome> what if we write a section about writing and working with the documentation itself?
<knome> that surely isn't a process description as is
<knome> we haven't specified that it needs to be like this, the technical side requires it to be like it
<knome> another analogy:
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Maintenance  currently describes the maintaining tasks we need to take for website and more
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but we can incorporate that in a "How to potentially gain membership through -docs" and thus linked for example from the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<knome> the new guide we are writing is as if we wrote instructions on how to use wordpress to actually do that maintaining
<slickymasterWork> but our intention is not that
<knome> no, we definitely don't want to to do that for the website stuff
<knome> but for the documentation stuff it might be required since people would otherwise need to do a lot of research
<slickymasterWork> we could use your idea about writing and working with the documentation itself and fit it in the present scope of the team wiki
<slickymasterWork> killing two rabbits 
<knome> i know this is going overboard, but i really have to point this out too
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/translating/
<knome> what's the point of this page
<knome> and the other similar pages, where do we draw the line
<slickymasterWork> I see it as a complement
<knome> i think the website is nice and concise atm
<slickymasterWork> the website is the first entrance for most users
<knome> it also describes the processes page function well:
<slickymasterWork> contributing wise
<knome> For the full list of translations that are important to Xubuntu, please refer to the Processes page on the Ubuntu wiki.
<knome> and tbh, "Processes" is a bad name
<slickymasterWork> that's nor present there
<slickymasterWork> workflow?
<knome> yeah, something like that
<slickymasterWork> I like it better
<ochosi> elfy: so at least xrandr is reporting the screen size correctly...
<knome> tell pleia2 you're going to rename pages and she'll murmur at you
<slickymasterWork> it's more explanatory
<slickymasterWork> that's your job :P
<knome> haha
<slickymasterWork> tell pleia2 those nasty things
<ochosi> elfy: and yeah, *all* new windows are created offscreen
<knome> slickymasterWork, nooo, but she'll make me do redirects :(
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> but seriously, I like your idea about writing and working with the documentation itself
<knome> but that's another discussion :D
<knome> and there are a lot more things we could document that would make new contributors more ease with the tools...
<slickymasterWork> we just would have to figure/decide how/where to incorporate it in the present layout of the wiki
<knome> ...or does it have to be in the wiki?
<slickymasterWork> I think it would have to
<knome> my wacky idea was to duplicate the base of the xubuntu documentation and make it a docbook thing.
<knome> and put it under docs.xubuntu.org/developers for example
<slickymasterWork> and that's your fault, you always stressed the paperwork aspect of it
<knome> but of course, that's a different thing to maintain than the wiki
<knome> but it would allow us to present it in a better-looking format
<slickymasterWork> are we the ones who maintain docs.xubuntu.org/?
<knome> yes
<knome> or, pleia2 does
<knome> (lots of pings for her today)
 * slickymasterWork hides from pleia2 sight
<knome> so we could update it whenever we wrote new chapters to it
<slickymasterWork> agree
<knome> but i'm sure there are people who are against putting it to docbook
<slickymasterWork> that just might turn out to be the sanest solution
<knome> because the wiki is more easily editable by everyone and blah blah ;)
<knome> the other option is to create another subsection for the wiki
<knome> Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation
<ochosi> ali1234: actually it's a xubuntu issue, it's sorta release critical for b1, so if you have any idea how to find out why any new window is created offscreen in ubiquity-dm (only with xfwm4)...
<knome> and start gathering that kind of stuff there
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but anyway there's only a bunch of us who deal with docbook markup so they'll going to say that it's our job
<ochosi> ali1234: and i presume that it's a recent regression with 4.11.3 as we haven't seen this before and i don't think ubiquity's window placement code has changed at all
<knome> writing developer documentation is something you can't do anyway if you're a newbie, so in that way being in docbook doesn't make it much more exclusive
<slickymasterWork> the Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation idea was already thrown, but I was under the impression that it would serve another propose 
<knome> it would be the same, just in the wiki
<slickymasterWork> exactly what I was thinking ^^
<knome> i'll have to think about it
<knome> tbh, i'd probably go for the wiki for starters 
<knome> and i'd probably also move the important packages there too
<knome> because it's not specifically a workflow/process thing either 
<slickymasterWork> well, it isn't, but it also is at the same time
<knome> i've also long thought that the web presence page is in the wrong place
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/WebPresence
<knome> this
<knome> it should be under "Contact"
<slickymasterWork> lol, was going to pop the question
<knome> which is currently a redirect to "Leaders"
<knome> but we should rename that to Contact
<knome> and fix that stuff
<knome> but meeeeh
<slickymasterWork> that's a all different issue
<knome> reorganizing the wiki makes me cry
<slickymasterWork> poor knome 
<knome> it's so slow
<ochosi> elfy: btw, i have one fairly simple workaround for the window being offscreen: hit alt+f7 (shortcut for window-moving) and use the left-arrow button on your keyboard to move the window back onscreen
<knome> compared to for example reorganizing docbook...
<ochosi> elfy: i know it's not pretty though
<knome> ochosi, think he knows about that already, alt+space+m he told
<ochosi> ah ok
<knome> which is probably the same, or sameish
<knome> oh, that's the context menu
<knome> but yeah, pretty much the same process
<ochosi> yup
<knome> slickymasterWork, anything else on the pad?
<knome> i got to go AFK soon
<knome> but i'll be back relatively soon, like 1h max
<knome> actually, now
<slickymasterWork> just added a small correction
<knome> bbiab
<knome> hope you're still around when i'm back :)
<slickymasterWork> but I'm done with it now
<knome> i'll fix the wiki then...
<slickymasterWork> I'll be home and around
<knome> great
<slickymasterWork> after diner
<knome> see you then
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> oki doke
<knome> -->
<slickymasterWork> bbl ->
<elfy> ochosi: that's in hardware yes?
<ochosi> no, in a vbox i just created
<elfy> mmm not working  here
<ochosi> crap
<ochosi> we don't set a shortcut for that by default
<ochosi> not sure why tbh+
<elfy> ok
<ochosi> it's weird anyway, the ubiquity standalone session is a bit useless
<ochosi> i mean basically you can start *everything* within that session
<ochosi> just right-click the desktop and it's all there...
<elfy> yea
<elfy> really - the bare minimum I guess
<ochosi> also, again uneven circles :/
<ochosi> ugly progress-dots... http://i.imgur.com/eXCgpZa.png
<knome> ochosi, that's the smallest of the problems :P
<knome> ochosi, i mean even the shot you pasted looks okay
<ochosi> yeah, even pixel-size wise
<ochosi> also, i was mostly messing with elfy (obviously)
<knome> hah..
<elfy> :)
<knome> came just to pop in and out
<knome> -<
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/VividBeta1
<elfy> draft release notes 
<ochosi> btw, i think the workaround to move the window back on screen is good enough to publish the beta either way
<elfy> ochosi: yep - I'm happy to publish as long as people have the info
<elfy> hopefully by the next beta we'll have no major issues and can concentrate on bigging up xfce4.12 lol 
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, that other issue you mentioned with popup-windows not showing a frame can be worked around by deactivating "hide frame of windows when maximized" aka /xfwm4/general/borderless_maximize
<ochosi> bluesabre: with "that other issue" i meant this of: https://i.imgur.com/hxmrz2d.png
<knome> slickymaster, i'm back
<ochosi> elfy: where do we track that ubiquity known issue?
<elfy> Bug 1425047
<ubottu> bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047
<ochosi> right, but that is sort of a different thing
<ochosi> at least the description is misleading if it's supposed to be the same thing
<elfy> that's the only tracking we've got currently 
<elfy> other than bits of writing on the pad and in my head
<ochosi> in that report it seems about more than just the window being offscreen, no?
<ochosi> k
<elfy> ochosi: yes - but when the bug was reported - we weren't aware of the offscreen thing 
<elfy> tbf - when the bug was reported I was driving around in circles :p
<ochosi> understandable
<elfy> no - I was actually doing that :D
<ochosi> ok, finally a pointer...
<ochosi> the _NET_WORKAREA window-manager hint is wrong
<elfy> \o/
<ochosi> humm, who's in charge of ubiquity again atm?
<elfy> no idea tbh
<elfy> ochosi: but the place to ask would be in -release 
<ochosi> did you talk to anybody about the issues we're having yet?
<elfy> yea - infinity and also cyphermox 
<elfy> who's in here 
<ochosi> k
 * ochosi waves at cyphermox 
<elfy> ochosi: does that hint only affect the install part then? or? 
<ochosi> the hint states that the workarea starts at 1024px on the x coordinate instead of 0
<ochosi> so all windows are off by 1024px
<elfy> finished fiddling with the draft on the pad - special note at top for ochosi 
<ochosi> (to the right)
<elfy> ochosi: well that would explain that then 
<ochosi> the window-manager should correctly set that hint
<ochosi> now i know that it's not doing that
<elfy> but does it say something different for inside the livesession install ? 
<ochosi> just not why :)
<elfy> well - I could answer you - but then you'd know I'm not me :p
<ochosi> i'm going to the live session now to see whether that looks ok
<knome> ochosi, fwiw, moved (and redirected) the leaders page to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Contact
<elfy> ochosi: well it certainly looks ok - and everything works as expected 
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> the values there are correct
<ochosi> elfy: am i correct that the final "your installation window is complete" isn't showing because it's offscreen?
<ochosi> i didn't go that far with testing, but i wanna write down my findings in a bugreport
<elfy> yep - it is there 
<elfy> I've successfully moved that to visible 
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1425690
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1425690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "New windows are created offscreen" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> bluesabre: i tried to summarize my findings in this bugreport: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1425690
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1425690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "New windows are created offscreen" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> (sorry for double-posting)
<ochosi> also ali1234 ^ in case you wanna help out with that (since you know more about wms than most or all of us here)
<elfy> ochosi: thanks :)
<ochosi> np, i think this is as far as i can go tonight
<elfy> yep - fair to say we're unlikely to get a fix before tomorrow afternoon?
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, i think by not actively painting the desktop black we'd be able to see the wallpaper as set by xfwm4 (the "xprop -root" output i added to that bugreport i linked to above clearly indicates that that root pixmap is set). maybe i forgot something or why we paint it black in the first place...
<ochosi> elfy: i guess, but i'd rather wait for bluesabre's feedback on that
<elfy> ok - well I'll see that in the morning I suspect then 
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> mark the slickymaster bug dupe of the new one? 
<elfy> which it is - we just only had half a story 
<ochosi> are you sure?
<ochosi> i thought there was another issue there
<elfy> possibly - but only because people start adding stuff 
<ochosi> k, lemme re-read it then
<elfy> the hfs business I read in a good install as well 
<ochosi> oh ok :)
<ochosi> then let's mark that as a duplicate of mine
<elfy> might be a bug - but I think it's a red herring in slickymaster's bug - which when he originally pinged me was about the failing install
<elfy> which WAS about the offscreen the install has finished - restart or not message
<elfy> because if you just reboot after it would normally have been done (in time) the install is fine 
<elfy> and cyphermox is talking about the offscreen windows in that bug - he's #11
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> realized that
<ochosi> i marked it as a dupe now
<elfy> hah - double marking to make sure then :p
<ochosi> anyway, i need a break, i'll be back in a bit
<ochosi> feel free to adjust the link in the pad though, if you can
<elfy> yea - thanks - cya tomorrow I suspect 
<ochosi> if not, i'll do it when i come back
<Unit193> elfy: Right, so upgrade testing.  1. Install utopic from core, make sure xubuntu-desktop isn't installed, upgrade.  2. Install utopic from core, make sure both xubuntu-core and xubuntu-desktop aren't installed, upgrade.  3. There might be a 3rd, maybe one that removes a keyDep, but I don't see why as that's out of the context of this.  Case #1 should upgrade without installing a meta.  Case #2 
<ochosi> sure, to the worst ttyl
<Unit193> should install xubuntu-desktop.
<knome> Unit193, write a testcase ;]
<Unit193> knome: Just did. :----D
<knome> Unit193, no, with the preferred testcase format you silly. :)
<Unit193> Not even sure what that is. :P
<knome> Unit193, i will have no problems digging that up for you!
<knome> Unit193, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/ManualStyleGuide
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TestCaseFormat#contribute
<Unit193> Maybe I should stop fixing things...
<knome> it's basic HTML
<knome> basically put it in a <dl>
<knome> actions in <dt>, expected results in <dd>
<knome> easy?
<ali1234> ochosi: the _NET_WORKAREA indicates something made a strut that completely covers the screen
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, that's what i thought
<ochosi> but the ubiquity panel seems fine
<ochosi> i haven't checked ubiquity's own window yet though
<ali1234> is this reproducable in virtualbox?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> one sec, i'll pastebin the xprop for the panel
<ochosi> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10415147/
<ali1234> it isn't necessarily the panel, any window can set struts
<Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/00D8WQZNhmX52XLQWCxx I don't know, something like that.
<ochosi> ali1234: i know, but there's only the desktop (doesn't set struts) and the ubiquity main installer window (doesnt set struts)
<ochosi> so the panel is the only thing left
<elfy> Unit193: more or less - but indented and </dt> at ends
<elfy> etc
<knome> Unit193, noo
<knome> but thanks for the basework
<knome> i'll fix that...
<elfy> or even - look at an existing one ... 
<ali1234> ochosi: okay it's the panel
<ochosi> i wonder how this is not a problem with other WMs though
<ochosi> the struts of the panel do look wrong indeed, they start with 1024
<ali1234> it is a problem with other wms...
<ochosi> yeah, but from what elfy indicated we're the only ones seeing the issue
<ochosi> so the others seem to ignore the struts or whatnot
<ali1234> what panel is it?
<ochosi> ubiquity's builtin panel
<ali1234> i wouldn't be surprised if xfwm is the only wm that handles struts correctly
<knome> elfy, Unit193: http://paste.openstack.org/show/EHLS3jEd301wSHoUkizm/
<ochosi> i can link you to the code/source, one sec
<elfy> ochosi: I've not seen it in the 2 I looked at, but I am just running studio 
<ochosi> elfy: studio is also using xfwm, so you should see it there too
<elfy> yep - just going to confirm so they know 
<ali1234> there were some changes in xfwm relating struts recently
<ali1234> my patch actually
<ali1234> however, it should only make it ignore struts
<ali1234> not unignore ones it previously ignored
<ali1234> and it shouldn't affect what the panel sets either
<ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/src/panel/panel.c
<ali1234> yeah okay this is just plain wrong
<ochosi> so somewhere in set_strut there is a buuuug :)
<ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/src/panel/panel.c#L249
<ali1234> set_strut just does what the code tells it
<ali1234> the code tells it to make a strut convering the whole screen, so it does
<ochosi> haha
<Unit193> So dd is <p> not <h1>.
<ochosi> widt
<ali1234> set_strut(GTK_WINDOW(win), width, 0, allocation.height, allocation.height, 0, width);
<ochosi> yeah
<ali1234> width = gdk_screen_width();
<ochosi> the first width should be 0
<ochosi> lol, that is an obvious one that even *i* see and understand
<ali1234> they should probably all be zero
<ali1234> the panel is always the full width and always at the top?
<knome> Unit193, semantically, <dl> = definition list, <dt> = definition title, <dd> = definition definition
<ochosi> ali1234: yes
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: have you noticed any funny stuff with struts in ubiquity?
<Unit193> I think I'd rather mess with C.
<ochosi> ali1234: it's totally hardcoded and stuff, so no options
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, No. Can you give me an an idea of what I should look for?
<knome> elfy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/HardwareProfile
<ochosi> i'm not even sure that panel is shown in mate's installer, we had to opt in to get it
<knome> elfy, huhu... :)
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: ubiquity panel defines a strut covering the entire screen, and properly coded WMs then push all new windows *off* the screen because there is no workarea
<elfy> knome: don't remember that one :)
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, If you mean the ubiquity-dm panel then I use that.
<knome> elfy, well it's been hiding...
<elfy> can you see how old they are :p
<knome> yes, 2012
<knome> says at the page bottom
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: yeah i thought you did, cos you mentioned making indicators work in it, hence me asking
<ochosi> flexiondotorg: ah ok
<knome> elfy, pop in to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu to see the new header
<knome> ^ others too
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Never had an issue with it. Checked out OK on i386 and amd64 earlier.
<ochosi> weird though, i would presume that metacity handles struts correctly
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Just doing PowerPC tests now.
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, Well possibly but I use Marco.
<ochosi> ali1234: i presume this would be enough? set_strut(GTK_WINDOW(win), 0, 0, allocation.height, allocation.height, 0, width);
<knome> ochosi, agree with this here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation
<ali1234> i'm zsync'ing xubuntu daily
<ali1234> ochosi: you don't even need that last width
<knome> ochosi, mostly on the outline where different stuff should be at
<ochosi> ali1234: ah yeah, overlooked that. i guess we should propose a branch asap so that it gets merged tomorrow and then we get a working b1
<ali1234> ochosi: yeah, just reading the specs. as usual, they are confusing
<ali1234> actually
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> you mean the advanced wm hints spec?
<ali1234> http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/1.3/ar01s05.html#NETWMSTRUT
<ochosi> yeah, that one is a bit hard to digest...
<ochosi> read it before as well
<ali1234> right i get it
<ali1234> first 4 numbers are the width of the border on that edge of the screen
<ali1234> so those should be 0, 0, allocation.height, 0
<ali1234> the next 4 are the start and stop of the struts in the other direction
<ali1234> so those should be d/c, d/c, d/c, d/c, 0, width, d/c, d/c
<ali1234> d/c = don't care
<ochosi> wat, for realz?
<ali1234> translating that for the set_strut call you get...
<ali1234> (0, 0, 0, allocation.height, 0, width)
<ochosi> right, care to propose the branch since i'm still trying to bend my head around that description on fd.org?
<ali1234> i would like to talk to whoever wrote this first
<ali1234> can you bzr blame it for me?
<ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/annotate/head:/src/panel/panel.c ?
<ochosi> evan dandrea i guess
<ali1234> "add an installer session panel" looks like the one
<ali1234> that was 5 years ago though
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> ev
<ochosi> should be the nick ^
<ochosi> found in #u-devel
<ochosi> why would you wanna talk about this issue with the author first?
<ochosi> i guess he doesn't even remember writing it since it's been 5yrs
<ali1234> there might be a good reason why it does what it does
<ali1234> i doubt it but you never know
<ochosi> i guess then propose the branch and ask him for review
<ochosi> you can specifically request him
<ali1234> good idea
<ochosi> then he gets notified and if there's a branch with the change and a comment from you, we can follow up by pinging the hell out of him tomorrow :D
<ali1234> i wonder why this was never a problem before
<ochosi> yeah, no clue
<ochosi> it seems like an obvious problem
<ali1234> hmm wait a minute
<ali1234> this actually should be okay
<knome> slickymaster, too late, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation/TranslationGuidelines
<ali1234> if left.end is allocation.height then it only covers the whole width
<ali1234> at the top of the screen
<ochosi> so what, xfwm4 misinterprets it?
<ali1234> could be
<ali1234> like how it misinterprets struts on multimonitor, thinking they cover the other monitors
<cyphermox> I don't think ev will be of much help, he hasn't touched ubiquity in forever
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=b97b14868e27e48d4d475ac0497726f16de9a4e1
<ali1234> what is this
<ali1234> it's either that or this causing it http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=3f12ac8f92096ce562221622aa5ad2f45ae37006
<ochosi> "awesome"
<ochosi> cyphermox: thanks for reading in!
<ali1234> the ubiquity code is actually wrong tho
<elfy> evening cyphermox :)
<ali1234> there's no need to set two struts on the same area like that, the strut can be handled perfectly by the not-partial stuff
<knome> ochosi, are you reading what i'm pinging you with at all? ;)
<knome> elfy, was there something for the QA team we wanted xubuntu-specific instructions for? there's a wikipage for that now...
<elfy> I intend to do us xubuntu specific instructions 
<knome> put them under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation ...
<cyphermox> ali1234: i suspect there must have been a good reason to have two; it will need some testing with the other wms.
<ochosi> i presume one is set as a fallback
<ochosi> for those that don't handle the _PARTIAL ones
<ali1234> so the problem here is that xfwm doesn't understand partial struts at all
<ali1234> ochosi: the thing is, it's completely unneccessary to use a partial strut here
<ali1234> the strut is the whole width and whatever height it is
<ali1234> that bit works fine
<ali1234> it's the partial one that is causing the problem
<ochosi> knome: so the dev docs are in an ok place imo, looks good
<knome> ochosi, and what about the introduction, you agree what it says?
<ochosi> yeah, looks ok
<knome> ok, also see the new contact page
<knome> (and you probably noticed the new banner too...)
<ochosi> yeah, much cleaner
<ochosi> thus better
<knome> yep
<knome> agree
<knome> i was also thinking about the timezone stuff
<knome> do people use it?
<knome> probably not a question to the team...
<ochosi> yeah, good question
<slickymaster> knome, checking it
<ochosi> ali1234: so what's the conclusion here? if ubiquity is setting both struts correctly i guess xfwm4 should be fixed somehow
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it mean refactoring workspaces.c
<slickymaster> knome, seems good
<ali1234> and maybe some other stuff
<slickymaster> but there's one odd thing that has to be corrected
<slickymaster> will you do it, or can I?
<knome> slickymaster, as the documentation team lead, you could take a stance if something from http://xubuntu.org/contribute/development/ or http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/ should be moved there, they seem to be pretty comprehensive
<knome> slickymaster, it's a wiki, i don't have the edit lock... :)
<ali1234> the easiest fix would be to just make ubiquity not set that partial strut
<slickymaster> it's just that between point 3 and 4 of the 'Translation validity' section there's no <br> like between point 1 and 2 and point two and three
<ali1234> but there might be a reason why it does that
<slickymaster> on it
<knome> slickymaster, ;)
 * slickymaster is waking up the hamsters
<knome> slickymaster, you start to sound like an artist...
<slickymaster> nopes, but I did work as a professional photographer on  architecture for several years
<elfy> knome: as in Documentation - Testing ?
<knome> elfy, no, as in "Quality Assurance - Testing"
<knome> slickymaster, ooh :P
<elfy> knome: yea just saw that :)
<knome> elfy, and you too, maybe we should rethink our scopes now that we actually have that developer documentation
<elfy> I refuse to use the word Scope 
<knome> ahah
<knome> but you just did :(
<elfy> well I'll not fall into that trap again :p
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> knome, what about linking "... file a bug against the package itself."?
<knome> i'll get you...
<knome> slickymaster, to what?
<knome> slickymaster, i mean, isn't that supposed to be a general guideline for all xubuntu translations
<knome> slickymaster, mostly documentation though, as the intro says
<knome> i mean i wouldn't want not to encourage these good conventions and validity concerns amongst all packages
<knome> if we said they only cover documentation...
<slickymaster> tho link it to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs
<slickymaster> if there's something wrong with a tag in the docs, the bug should be raised against https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs
<knome> slickymaster, yes, but you're missing my point
<knome> read the intro
<knome> These guidelines apply mostly for the Xubuntu documentation. They can generally be applied to any translation with minor modification. If unsure, ask the Documentation team members for assistance. 
<knome> well, i guess minor modification could mean a different package
<slickymaster> ok, I see what you mean
 * knome shrugs
<ochosi> ali1234: "refactoring" in combination with any code parts doesn't sound like it's going to happen pre4.12
<knome> slickymaster, give me an example of "Placeholders and variable names, such as %(variablename)s, $name or ${name}, should always be left untranslated."
<ali1234> ochosi: it would be helpful to know when the regression occured
<knome> slickymaster, i know you said $PACKAGENAME, but was there something else you had in mind?
<slickymaster> yeah, but to be honest I don't remember now what it was :P
<knome> well tell me when you do
<ochosi> ali1234: either when we added the panel or when 4.11.3 hit the archives
<slickymaster> yes
<ochosi> elfy: got an idea here? ^
<knome> slickymaster, i think generally those can be translated, considering they are not technical variable placeholders
<knome> slickymaster, like %s somewhere (not in the documentation though)
<ochosi> ali1234: i guess to the worst we'll deactivate the panel again for xfwm4, it used to be pre-15.04
<ochosi> ali1234: until *now* we didn't see a reason not to use it
<knome> slickymaster, and then again those variables might have a completely different meaning and it might be so that they can be changed
<knome> slickymaster, eg. localized date formats
<knome> slickymaster, then the translation string comment usually tells what to do though
<slickymaster> perhaps 
<knome> slickymaster, if it doesn't then it's an issue with the source
<elfy> ochosi: no - I tend to just daily make sure the image boots and do a quick smoketest from livesession
<slickymaster> that's it
<ochosi> elfy: so you'd have noticed this earlier? how far do your smoketests go?
<slickymaster> ideally they shouldn't be there to begin with
<knome> slickymaster, no, they should be there
<elfy> ochosi: no I'd not have noticed it earlier as the issue doesn't show up installing from the livesession
<knome> slickymaster, the portuguese way to format the date is probably different than the finnish way
<slickymaster> but that's system bound
<knome> slickymaster, so it's a great thing that the software author enables the translators to use that
<knome> slickymaster, using the system format is not always possible or desirable
<slickymaster> I'm aware knome 
<knome> slickymaster, dates are just one of the examples
<knome> slickymaster, other examples are formatting various number things, like "Found %d articles"
<slickymaster> my fear is that opening a window like that, enabling their translation might end up in a sort of mess like the one we're dealing now
<knome> slickymaster, in which the variable should be moved based on the language, eg. in finnish that would be "%d artikkelia lÃ¶ydettiin"
<ochosi> elfy: ok that means it could've been happening since we added the panel :/
<slickymaster> in that example you're not changinf the variable itself, just its placement
<slickymaster> knome: ^
<slickymaster> changing even
<knome> slickymaster, sure, but i can't remember seeing a variable referenced by %(variable)
<slickymaster> I'll have to dig it deeper
<knome> slickymaster, they probably exist, but maybe it would be better to say that separately with a blanket statement; "Different programming languages and software might have different variable syntaxes; make sure you are familiar with the appropriate software variable syntax when translating. More information on this can often be found in the translation string comment."
<elfy> ochosi: possibly 
<slickymaster> anyway, those are guidelines, not an airtight ruleset knome 
<elfy> ochosi: I have run from the install option - but couldn't say when it was 
<slickymaster> that would work for me
<slickymaster> knome: 
<knome> slickymaster, yep.
<knome> slickymaster, we definitely don't use that kind of stuff in the documentation
<ochosi> elfy: okeydokey, well hopefully one of the ubiquity devs will be able to give some input
<ochosi> or we can try our luck with ofourdan tomorrow
<ochosi> i doubt the latter would result in a fix pre-b1
<ochosi> but who knows
<slickymaster> knome, do you want to rephrased point three then
<elfy> ochosi: ack
<knome> slickymaster, i'd pop it off the list and put it somewhere else
<knome> slickymaster, but i don't have a strong opinion where
<elfy> wandering off now - night all
<knome> slickymaster, or move it as the last item
<ochosi> same here
<ochosi> night
<knome> slickymaster, with a note that it doesn't concern the documentation
<slickymaster> knome, it could be moved from validity to conventions
<knome> slickymaster, well actually, put it after the list as a paragraph ?
<slickymaster> with that note
<knome> no, it's not a convention; if you misdo it, it can break the validity
<slickymaster> you're right
<knome> well it will break the translation unless you are lucky :)
<slickymaster> nighty elfy 
<knome> night elfy, ochosi 
<slickymaster> yeah, but let's not push luck :P
<slickymaster> ochosi, nghty
<slickymaster> let's do it as you suggest
<slickymaster> knome: 
<knome> will you or shall i?
<slickymaster> you can do it
<knome> ok, just a sec
<knome> done
 * slickymaster checks
<slickymaster> knome, what about Note being in bolf font?
<slickymaster> just 'Note'
<knome> it's not that important
<knome> it's just a sidenote
<slickymaster> not importance realted
<slickymaster> * related
<knome> well it is
<slickymaster> aesthetics
<knome> we don't want to drag focus to it since it's not even concerning our docs
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> haha
<slickymaster> :)
<knome> well, opinions...
<slickymaster> but all and all, I think it was a good choice
<knome> even aesthetially, i think it's better like it is
<knome> +c
<slickymaster> opting for the wiki solution
 * knome "urses" the C key
<slickymaster> at least for now
 * knome hits it
<slickymaster> knome is going msd
<slickymaster> sigh
<slickymaster> mad even
<knome> haha
<knome> i'm always mad at my c
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> and it's one more asset to provide in the last translation call
<knome> yes, and a sensible one...
<slickymaster> which reminds me that I haven't even started to look at the packages used by and essential for Xubuntu pt translations
<knome> hehe :)
<knome> good for you
<slickymaster> no moral
<knome> ;)
<knome> write more documentation then...
<slickymaster> I'll start it this weekend
<slickymaster> there won't be so many strins to work on anyway
<knome> i should probably do some xfce translations
<bluesabre> hey all
<knome> hullo bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> ochosi: saw the ping storm while I was away today... so where are we at?
<slickymaster> knome, did you check https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/+imports lately?
<slickymaster> two of your uploads failed
<flexiondotorg> How is your testing going/
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<knome> for saucy and trusty...
 * knome shrugs
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> duplicate key value violates unique constraint "pomsgid_msgid_key"
<knome> DETAIL:  Key (sha1(msgid))=(819d25f001723101cd015feeacde55ee233c7b8b) already exists.
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster 
<knome> i have no idea what that means, exiting debugging.
<knome> slickymaster, approved your es.po (if that needed doing so, i'm not completely sure what LP requires me to do, but what i've done has worked so far...)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-26
<slickymaster> good thing you did that knome, because the official reviewer was the one who caused all the mess to start with
<knome> heh, ok
<slickymaster> regarding your failed ones
<slickymaster> duplicate key value violates unique constraint "pomsgid_msgid_key"
<slickymaster> DETAIL:  Key (sha1(msgid))=(819d25f001723101cd015feeacde55ee233c7b8b) already exists.
<slickymaster> that's what LP is whining about
<knome> slickymaster, didn't you read what i said
<knome> slickymaster, i pasted the same, then said:
<knome> 01:59  knome: i have no idea what that means, exiting debugging.
<knome> also note the time :P
<slickymaster> yeah, seeing it now :P
<knome> not interested in debugging
<slickymaster> neither am I
<knome> i'm translating xfdesktop :P
<slickymaster> I'm still reviewing po files
<slickymaster> fr.po
<bluesabre> bbiab
<bluesabre> ochosi: so, are we just going to drop the panel from ubiquity again?
<slickymaster> knome, Unit193, I think we should drop the gthumb-web entity from xubuntu.ent 
<slickymaster> what do you think?
<knome> if it's not used, drop it
<slickymaster> we removed it from the docs when we stoped shiping it
<Unit193> Alright.
<Unit193> Do a quick grep, just to confirm.
<slickymaster> will do
<slickymaster> Done. Pushed up to revision 301
<bluesabre> Unit193: you around?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not for long.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 
<knome> woot
<bluesabre> was the decision to remove ubiquity panel again?
<Unit193> I wasn't following that as closely, you would have to ask ochosi.
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> I'm testing that now
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193, carry on :)
<bluesabre> and, that does fix the issue
<bluesabre> suppose I should propose a merge for that, and get maybe, just maybe, get a rebuild before tomorrow's beta
<ochosi> bluesabre: tbh dropping the panel again only makes sense if we decide we don't want it in the long run
<ochosi> otherwise i agree with elfy that as long as we mention the problem and the simple workaround to get windows back onscreen, there is no problem with release b1 as is
<ochosi> i'll try to find out what's wrong there with ofourdan
<ochosi> also, did you read my other comment for the popup window without borders there?
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<ali1234> morning
<ali1234> my internet died last night
<ali1234> but it's back now
<flexiondotorg> Morning
<elfy> morning both
<ali1234> ochosi: better to drop the panel than have this weird thing where it looks like the installer crashed, it hink
<flexiondotorg> Regarding the off screen Ubiquity issue  you've seen.
<elfy> ali1234: I believe that's what bluesabre's done 
<ochosi> ali1234: i dunno, i'm not convinced
<flexiondotorg> Does Xubuntu enable a compoistor by default?
<ali1234> i doubt anyone will even notice panel/no panel to be honest
<ochosi> the panel does add a few useful things, like being able to configure your network connection
<ali1234> they'll sure notice if the installer doesn't work tho
<ochosi> yeah, but it's only b1, there's still time
<ali1234> there's the live session for that
<ochosi> well there's always the live session for everything
<ali1234> yeah agreed, this shouldn't be *that* hard to fix anyway
<ochosi> imo xfwm4 *or* ubiquity need a fix
<ali1234> did you figure out when regression actually happened?
<ochosi> not yet, i couldn't work on this anymore last night, was getting too late
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: i couldn't tell you off hand
<ali1234> but we pretty much know the cause
<elfy> flexiondotorg: it is enabled in livesession
<ali1234> the only question remaining is why it ws never a problem before
<ali1234> (and how to fix it)
<ochosi> ali1234: btw, since you said PARTIAL_STRUTS aren't handled well by xfwm4, that's all the xfce4-panel sets...
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, The only reason I mention it is because when I was adding Ubiquity support I was advised to enable compositing to ensure that ubiquity-dm rendered correctly.
<flexiondotorg> So, Ubuntu MATE force enables the Marco compositor for installs.
<ochosi> yeah, actually that might be another problem we're having, we currently enabling the compositor in our config, but we explicitely start xfwm4 without compositing in ubiquity-dm iirc
<ali1234> ochosi: no it sets both struts BUT the non-partial ones don't make sense, and accordingo the spec the Wm should always ignore the struts if partial struts are set
<ali1234> in that case you might ask why ubiquity sets both, and that's a very good question
<ali1234> i think if it only set one or the other it would work
<flexiondotorg> Until I enabled the compositor the ubiquity-dm panel was really messed up and they were all manner of other artifacts.
<ali1234> also if it only set a top OR a left strut, that would also work
<ali1234> basically it is setting 4 struts when it only needs 1
<ali1234> so step 1. is to find out if there is actually a good reason why it does this. ie ask ev. if he says "i can't remember" then the chances are there is no good reason
<ochosi> right, but from what i read in the spec, the wm should ignore the WM_STRUTS of the PARTIAL ones are set
<ali1234> yes it should
<ochosi> and it explicitely mentions you *may* set both
<ali1234> step 2 is make xfwm3 do that
<ochosi> as fallback for older wms
<ochosi> i guess that's why ubiquity is doing that
<ali1234> yeah the thing is the not-partial struts set by ubiquity are just plain wrong too
<ali1234> so if that's he reason why it does it, then in fact it is only making things worse
<ochosi> well that should be fixed in ubiquity anyway, no?
<ali1234> yes unless there is a good reason why it does it
<ochosi> but yeah, in fact from what i read in the spec, it does seem to set a bit too many struts in the partial ones, the top should be enough since it's fullwidth
<ali1234> brb breakfast
<ochosi> i guess asking ev is a futile exercise, as cyphermox indicated
<ali1234> it can't hurt if you can find him
<ochosi> i pinged him about it, but it may take a while till he gets back to me
<ochosi> elfy: while sean proposed the branch last night, i think we should go ahead as planned and mark b1 ready with the remark in the release notes. chances to get his "fix" uploaded in time are slim anyway and i'd rather get to the bottom of this
<elfy> ochosi: ok - agree with that
<elfy> even if the fix gets put in - without the image rebuilding we'd not get a new one
<elfy> ochosi: from the results on the tracker using LIVE the only ones we've not got coverage for are auto-resize for 64 bit 
<elfy> everything else has a pass - so I'm happy with that 
<ochosi> ok, i can quickly do that
<ochosi> elfy: hm wait, for autoresize i already need something installed alongside, right?
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> hmpf
<ochosi> that is not something i can do quickly after all...
<ochosi> sry
<elfy> well ... you need 1 installed, if you had windows and xubuntu for instance you can't - that's why I can't do that on hardware
<elfy> ochosi: no worries - I'm sure that we're good - the issue we do have is about windows in install 
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome, elfy: i think we need to drop our button icon size from 22px to 16px. as you can see in the screenshot, gtk3 already uses the smaller icons so we've got some nasty inconsistency there: http://i.imgur.com/tI5ocoE.png
<elfy> I can do a vm one 
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome, elfy: please lemme know if you strongly disagree, otherwise i'll push a fix for this to xubuntu-default-settings
<elfy> I don't disagree 
<ochosi> k, good to know
<elfy> don't ask me to point out the inconsistencies - I looked for square circles - couldn't see any :p
<Unit193> Clearly you weren't drinking enough.
<ochosi> ehehe
<elfy> if someone can run through the release note draft during the day that'd be helpful, normally only work a few hours Thursday
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/VividBeta1
<Unit193> Did someon NACK the merge proposal to remove the panel?
<ochosi> Unit193: not yet, wanted to talk to bluesabre first
<Unit193> Meanwhile, it's still pending and you have a race condition here.
<ochosi> race condition=
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> Unit193: could you please be a bit more verbose?
<elfy> back for 30 mins or so in a few hours
<ochosi> ali1234: "ev$ ochosi: unfortunately not - that was years and two jobs ago"
<ochosi> so he has no recollection of the ubiquity panel's struts (no surprises there)
<ali1234> he'd remember if there was an actual reason
<ali1234> so i'm guessing it's just a bug
<ochosi> probably, i still wonder why all other wms handle that
<ali1234> because they use the partial struts
<ali1234> metacity does, marco does because it is based on metacity
<ochosi> but xfwm4 generally handles those too
<ochosi> i mean even the xfce panel uses those
<ali1234> no it doesn't
<ali1234> look at the code, it only looks at the first four values
<ochosi> elfy: evince maximize works again in vivid btw
<bluesabre> ochosi: HEY
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> dang caps
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> but also, HEY
<bluesabre> so, want me to cancel my MR?
<bluesabre> Unit193's "race condition" is that the longer it sits, the more likely it is to get merged, so if we want to cancel it, sooner better than later
<bluesabre> in the case of panel vs. no panel, the installer lets you configure the network connection ... and if for some reason you click cancel, you end up at the live desktop anyway
<ochosi> bluesabre: hey
<ochosi> without caps
<bluesabre> oh goodie
<ochosi> right, well i think that for a respin it's a tad late so i think we should just roll with it
<ochosi> i've commented on the MR so i don't think it'll just get merged straight away
<bluesabre> ah, ok
<ochosi> so there are two separate issues in xfwm4 that sorta need fixing either way
<ochosi> the removed borders on unmaximized windows
<ochosi> (i pointed you to the workaround for that, maybe we should apply that to x-d-s asap)
<ochosi> and the struts problem, which causes the oddities we've been seeing in ubiquity-dm
<bluesabre> ochosi: can you paste your workaround again... its been lost in the wave of backlog
<ochosi> bluesabre: set /xfwm4/general/borderless_maximize to FALSE
<bluesabre> ochosi: will you be around today?
<ochosi> nope, actually i gotta take off for work in a few mins
<bluesabre> ah
<ochosi> i'll be around in the evening
<ochosi> well, what is my evening here
<bluesabre> well, when you get back this evening... https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11568
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11568 in Appearance Settings "Appearance Dialog Window crashes (xfce-settings 4.11.4-2)" [Blocker,Needinfo]
<ochosi> that'll be your afternoon
<ochosi> yeah, i already looked and commented on that today ;)
<ochosi> as you might've seen/read
<bluesabre> it looks like its crashing at a g_print/g_warning
<ochosi> hmm
<bluesabre> yeah, more comments after you
<bluesabre> so we're passing something in that is empty/uninitialized
<bluesabre> I might be able to figure it out in a few, if not, you can dig in
<ochosi> well the last comment/bt i didn't really understand
<ochosi> i didn't see anything that made sense to me in that 2line bt
<ochosi> it just says it has trouble with some var, but no hint as to what or where
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> g_error/g_warning use g_logv
<bluesabre> so we might have 
<ochosi> a-ha
<bluesabre> g_warning("Hello %s", someVar);
<ochosi> so either this: g_warning ("Could not open file \"%s\"", filename);
<bluesabre> but someVar is already freed
<ochosi> or more likely this: g_warning ("Couldn't load icon: %s", error->message);
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> those are the only two
<bluesabre> then that's the offender most likely
<ochosi> i guess we need a check whether error is actually not NULL
<ochosi> or uninitialized
<ochosi> i mean tbh it should never get there... the icon shouldn't be nothing since we load a fallback
<ochosi> maybe we should create yet another else to just use a blank pixmap instead of the image-missing, if it's missing
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I think thats the ticket
<ochosi> about the xfwm4 workaround: you can test that in the ubiquity live session and by changing that option you'll see the problem goes away
<bluesabre> oh nice
<ochosi> we could do that and drop the warning altogether
<ochosi> i mean who cares if the icon cannot be found
<ochosi> or do you think anyone will look at the output for error messages about bad icon themes..?
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> I'll drop that now
<ochosi> ok cool
<bluesabre> and then we can use NULL instead of populating error
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> after all, nothing else in xfce really logs warnings with g_warning...
<ochosi> i mean in that dialog :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> will you be around today?
<ochosi> i mean i'll return around 8utc i guess
<bluesabre> well, I'll push this patch and comment on the bug, you can do more damage control if this is the wrong (or 1/2) area for crash
<ochosi> right, be aware that the tester has no clue how to apply a pathc
<ochosi> patch
<ochosi> i'm even surprised he managed to build things correctly
<bluesabre> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/commit/?id=500f6937ae707c611db246bb2c7c4b05cccb92c9
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> elfy: i've read through the release notes, they're fine from my pov, the xfce updates are plenty and i'm not sure whether we can/shall list them (esp thunar, xfwm4, panel)
<bluesabre> let's just be appreciative that we can get this patch in before saturday
<ochosi> lol, nice patch
<bluesabre> ochosi: like to release notes? sorry, been chasing bugs :D
<ochosi> http://pad.ubuntu.com/VividBeta1
<bluesabre> line 1 should no longer be the case..?
<ochosi> some circles are ellipses :'(
<ochosi> (ubiquity progress dots at the bottom)
<ochosi> also it's just elfy poking fun at me i think
<bluesabre> ah, thought those were intentional
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> soo, i really gotta run now
<ochosi> i hope you two can finish up the rest of the new features, the rest seems okay to me
<ochosi> and even as it is, i think most new features are mentioned
<bluesabre> I'll work on it
<ochosi> thanks
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi, have a fun day
<ochosi> so again, you'll be around later today or not?
<bluesabre> 2130 UTC
<ochosi> (i'm just asking cause you asked me :))
<ochosi> alrighty, i guess we'll talk then
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> seeya
<ochosi> yup, hf too!
<brainvvash> good news, well "good"
<brainvvash> bug 1425401
<ubottu> bug 1425401 in mate-panel (Ubuntu) "Mate notification area crashed upon booting to the live DE" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425401
<brainvvash> it noti area crashes in xfce and mate
<brainvvash> the
<knome> ochosi, you don't have any other examples of the 16px icons?
<bluesabre> most gtk3 apps have dropped button icons altogether
<bluesabre> if we really wanted to standardize, that's what we'd need to do
<knome> though imo no icons/icons isn't as bad as no icons/smaller icons/larger icons
<knome> :P
<dkessel> knome: german just surpassed finnish in the docs translations :p
<knome> boo hoo
<knome> but is it contributed by one person :P
<elfy> ochosi: it's elfy poking fun at elfy :)
<elfy> bluesabre: ^^ re the circles are all squares :P
<elfy> I'm anticipating only doing release notes for xubuntu.org today, if anyone else feels the need for a wiki one too - be my guest - but don't do it yet :)
<bluesabre> elfy: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11601 I'll be fixing that one today and it will be out with this weekend's release :)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11601 in Helpers "exo-open: firefox no longer supports -remote" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> or rather, everybody else is fixing and I'll commit
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> bluesabre: \o/ as soon as I see it I will unpin v35 and enable proposed :p
<elfy> I'm just off - I have marked us ready
<elfy> I'll double check the beta notes so I can do the Ubuntu wide release announcement 
<elfy> going to be waiting on studio I think ... 
<bluesabre> elfy: thanks
<elfy> by the time the flavours should run milestones gets around to Xubuntu again - we should be post 16.04 :D
<elfy> bbl
<bluesabre> bbl
<Akusari> hello
<Akusari> i'd like to learn more about xfce4 indicators, specialy too add an indicator-plugin for the message panel . Where can i find more documentation and/or example written in C/C++or java?
<brainvvash> you mean unity indicators?
<Akusari> nope, i want it for xfce4
<brainvvash> so you want to code a panel plugin?
<Akusari> but if thry run on unity its ok
<Akusari> yeah
<Akusari> e.g the email icon is there and shoe something on my desktop (top right, after the clock)
<Akusari> i think its the xfce4-panel and thats supports plugins
<brainvvash> https://wiki.xfce.org/dev/howto/panel_plugins
<Akusari> i found some phyton examples, but that doesn't fit into my skill :-P
<brainvvash> also http://ecc-comp.blogspot.de/2015/02/a-simple-tutorial-for-xfce-panel-plugin.html
<Akusari> perfect thanks!
<Akusari> I want to write a little monitor/alert plugin. i'm not sure if something exist already. It should monitor syslog/kernel stuff and support manual scripts
<brainvvash> maybe http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-genmon-plugin
<brainvvash> you could contribute to this plugin, if it already does most of the things you need
<Akusari> thanks, i'll take a look  :-)
<Akusari> i guess it's not shipped with xubuntu?
<brainvvash> not by default, but it is installable
<Akusari> i search for "genmon" but no hit (synaptic)
<brainvvash> xfce4-genmon-plugin
<Akusari> thx :-)
<Akusari> I just took a quick to the git repo. The master branch looks odd. It looks like only some translations was done over last years. Maybe it's time to add some new things :-) 
<brainvvash> possible, some panel plugins are not maintained anymore
<brainvvash> but patches are still welcome I'd guess
<Akusari> i hope so. we will see :-)
<Akusari> and if not, hey its GPL ;-)
<Akusari> this would be not my first time i fork a gpl project with a new name and continue the development
<Akusari> but in this case it not my intension to do so
<brainvvash> it's not really xubuntu related, so maybe we should stop the talk :)
<brainvvash> feel free to fork it
<Akusari> xfce is xubuntu :-) so the plugins as well, but i know what you mean
<flexiondotorg> Are you guys having panel crashes on i386 only too?
<slickymasterWork> flexiondotorg, oni386 for sure
<slickymasterWork> can't say anything abour amd64 though
<slickymasterWork> elfy is the one to confirm that
<flexiondotorg> slickymaster, Interesting. I can only reproduce the notification tray crashing on i386. powerpc and amd64 are fine.
<slickymasterWork> brainvvash_: do you have any extra info regarding flexiondotorg's ping ^^
<brainvvash_> no, but someone should inform #ubuntu-devel about this
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, Unit193 ^^^
<brainvvash_> lp report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1425401
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1425401 in mate-panel (Ubuntu) "Notification area crashed upon booting to the live DE (i386 only)" [High,Confirmed]
<knome> brainvvash_, and you can't do that because...?
<brainvvash_> because I am not in that channel
<slickymasterWork> hey knome 
<knome> brainvvash_, and you can't join that channel because...?
<brainvvash_> instead of asking stupid questions, why don't you inform the guys in ubuntu-devel?
<knome> brainvvash_, instead of telling other people to tell somebody, why don't you simply do it yourself?
<knome> brainvvash_, i *really* don't understand why somebody else should tell something to somebody else on your behalf
<knome> brainvvash_, how is *that* saving time or effort?
<brainvvash_> on my behalf? I don't have anything to tell them
<knome> then why should somebody else have?
<knome> are you doing this only for your own benefit?
<knome> why would other consider doing something for somebody else if you don't?
<brainvvash_> because they care about this bug
<knome> who are "they"?
<brainvvash_> other
<knome> well if you don't care about the bug, why do you take the time to notice people on this channel?
<brainvvash_> I was ask about it
<brainvvash_> if i can provide more info
<knome> well i still don't understand why joining the channel and telling yourself is really so much more that you can't take it
<brainvvash_> "because I am not in that channel"
<knome> you just typed more letters in this channel that it would have taken to join AND part that channel, so you're not making any sense
<brainvvash_> randomly linking something there and leave won't help
<knome> how would it be less random if i did that; i don't even know the background of the issue
<knome> but whatever
<knome> if you aren't willing to help, maybe consider not telling other people to do that as well
<knome> because that's not really helping the cause
<brainvvash_> other people? I did not name anyone
<knome> this is nothing personal, i just don't enjoy seeing people telling "others" should do something they could do theirself
<brainvvash_> thank you for pointing that out
<knome> well, eh, you're welcome
<knome> slickymasterWork, hullo
<slickymasterWork> o/
<elfy> knome: if you've time can you look at http://xubuntu.org/?p=3033&preview=true 
<elfy> url's are all funky :p
<knome> very
<knome> i'll try to fix the issue mentioned in -ot first..
<elfy> need to deal with the global announce stuff first 
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: a fix for the bug elfy mentioned in -ot (https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11601) looks like something we want in 4.12, tell me if i can help with it :)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11601 in Helpers "exo-open: firefox no longer supports -remote" [Normal,New]
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: patch exists
<elfy> knome: fixed the funkiness - just need a double check of it 
<elfy> ok - published
<elfy> for better or worse, can people like knome and pleia2 do the socially media stuffs :)
<knome> elfy, oh, sorry, i forgot to look at that
<knome> i'll tweet
<elfy> thanks knome :)
<elfy> I found it in the end - knew it had to be a missing > or somesuch - and was :p
<knome> heh
<knome> ough, there's some weird markup
 * knome fixes
<elfy> this is sort of one of those things in that 'bottom area' we discussed the other day
<knome> mmyep
<knome> elfy, see the footer now
<knome> hmm not 14.10
<elfy> :D
<knome> hmm that's the best one
<knome> let me tweak it a bit more
<knome> or at least, test something else
<elfy> I obviously like that there :)
<knome> hmm yeah, i have another issue to fix for 3.0 ;)
<knome> but yeah, it's good as it is now, it just could be easier on the backend
<elfy> does that get changed on wp-admin?
<knome> yep
<knome> elfy, under appearance -> widgets
<knome> elfy, it's in the "footer 1" area
<elfy> aah right - got it 
<knome> elfy, currently we have to squeeze it all in one widget since otherwise it'd go into columns
<elfy> right
<knome> i'm thinking to add one more widget area for this kind of things that would automatically stack vertically
<knome> then another that does the columns if we add more widgets
<knome> tbh, the wordpress core should start taking care of things like this...
<elfy> :)
<knome> or at least i'm waiting for that day
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> but i'm not sure if it will happen
<knome> themes control the appearance, so meh
<knome> another option would be to allow CSS classes per widget
<knome> but some widgets do that manually already, so that's meh too ;)
<knome> the only sane option is to have "too many" widget areas if you happen to need them
<knome> or if you want to change the appearance for them
<elfy> I suppose so :D
<knome> well that's not sane...
<knome> you shouldn't have to have unused widget areas
<elfy> I'll assume you weren't excpecting a balanced reply from me - as most of what you said is stuck in the wall above my head
<knome> but then many people who maintain the content probably aren't so nitpicky than i am ;)
<elfy> but I can get behind that last comment :)
<elfy> not that last one 
<elfy> the one before :D
<knome> lol
<knome> well it's true
<knome> i'm nitpicky with my stuff, fortunately i have full access at all times to my personal blog files... ;)
<elfy> :D
<knome> elfy, http://paste.ubuntu.com/10435735/
<knome> elfy, change the last two lines to those at /usr/share/xfce4/helpers/firefox.desktop
<knome> elfy, fixes the firefox issue we were talking before
<elfy> change the ones in the desktop file to match the paste? 
<knome> yep
<elfy> having a go at that then 
<knome> i can confirm it works :)
<elfy> okey doke :D
<knome> the source of the bug is actually firefox...
<elfy> who'd have thought it ... 
<knome> hehe
<knome> the mozilla devs...
<knome> they changed the parameter syntax
<knome> well, dropped the one we were using
<elfy> yep - working here too :)
<ali1234> bluesabre, ochosi what's happening with bug 1425690 then?
<ubottu> bug 1425690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "New windows are created offscreen" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425690
<ali1234> i just sent a MR to "fix" the ubiquity struts, hopefully explaining the situation as best i can
<ali1234> i even drew a picture
<elfy> :)
<ali1234> also i can't really test this at all because i have no idea how to poke around and replace files in a live install environment
<elfy> ali1234: that'd be why I couldn't do a thing too
<flexiondotorg> elfy, Thanks for your help getting Beta 1 sorted ð
<elfy> flexiondotorg: welcome ofc :)
<flexiondotorg> Just toss is that GTK2 was reved a few days ago. Wondering if that might be related to some of the issues we've seen?
<elfy> well - final beta in a few weeks 
<flexiondotorg> My post above was a typo.
<flexiondotorg> *Just tossing out there that...
<flexiondotorg> And, it was my fault ð
<elfy> flexiondotorg: it is dark out 
<flexiondotorg> ?
<elfy> blame that :)
<elfy> flexiondotorg: anyway - well done for getting done what you have in the last few days :)
<flexiondotorg> Thanks.
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - so to sum up - released, notes done on x.org
<elfy> if either of you feel it necessary to have wiki notes - I'll ack - but not do them :)
<flexiondotorg> elfy, Interested in what you guys did to "better support CSD"?
<elfy> flexiondotorg: then you'd probably be better asking someone else :p
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, ^^^^^
<elfy> if you've not worked out by now - code is worse than Jupiterese to me 
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: nothing :P
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Ellaborate ð
<ali1234> see https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10631
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10631 in Decorations "please support mwm hints completely" [Normal,New]
<ali1234> tl;dr i wrote a patch to make it kind of work, it hasn't been applied, so gnome forced the issue by forcing full CSD if it detects a compositor
<ali1234> this caused a whole load of problems, some of which have been fixed, some of which haven't
<ali1234> CSD is currently a total mess
<ali1234> ubuntu typically patches it out though, so xubuntu is not affected
<ali1234> we try to avoid shipping anything that uses it
<ali1234> there is also this https://github.com/ali1234/headeraway
<ali1234> and this https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
<ali1234> the former turns headerbars with buttons into toolbars
<ali1234> the latter kills CSD
<brainvvash> patches not welcome?
<ali1234> nah, i never thought it should be patched unless gnome gave something in return, like a way to turn the damn things off
<ali1234> but they weren't willing to do that
<ali1234> so now i refuse to work on it further
<brainvvash> =S
<ali1234> so basically this all amounts to nothing, in practice, because none of this code actually got used anywhere
<ali1234> and we rely on ubuntu patching CSD and headerbars out of things like gnome-calculator
<ali1234> the actual reason the xfwm patch wasn't applied was because ofourdan didn't like the idea of flipping theme pixmaps from the bottom to the top. even though it works fine with all the most popular themes. but it look swrong if the theme has a drop shadow. still better than nothing in my opinion, and i did allow the theme developer to specify a custom image - the flipping was just a fallback
<ali1234> but then after the last gnome changes it became moot anyway
<brainvvash> well, if ubuntu stops patching these apps, we could just switch to the MATE ones :)
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: if you see a change labelled "better support CSD" it's most likely to be a theme change
<flexiondotorg> Ah.
<ali1234> brainvvash: yeah, +1
<ali1234> mate's calculator looks nice
<ali1234> "galculator"
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, I've been prototyping this to "combat" CSD.
<brainvvash> caja is the only app I've tried so far (just to compare it with thunar)
<ali1234> i don't think thunar will be using CSD any time soon
<flexiondotorg> http://i.imgur.com/kgVwVyv.png
<flexiondotorg> Those are 2 CSD applications.
<ali1234> looks like headeraway
<flexiondotorg> Not perfect yet, but getting there.
<ali1234> i killed the extra label in the middle as well ("simple scan")
<flexiondotorg> I'm scoping a solution I want to pitch to the GNOME/GTK devs.
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, How?
<flexiondotorg> I've not figure that out yet.
<ali1234> with a preload library
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/headeraway
<flexiondotorg> OK. That is how I am achieving the other bit.
<flexiondotorg> Thank you.
<ali1234> gtk_header_bar_new returns a gtk_box instead
<ali1234> gtk_header_bar_set_title just sets the window title instead
<flexiondotorg> Nice.
<ali1234> and the _pack_ functions are adapted to add the things to the box
<ali1234> generates a lot of gtk warnings because you are feeding it the wrong object type
<ali1234> but it works
<flexiondotorg> You might be interested in this.
<flexiondotorg> https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
<ali1234> i just linked to that above
<flexiondotorg> Unstable. But useful 
<ali1234> it's slightly different to headeraway
<ali1234> but works similarly
<ali1234> all this stuff could be done as a proper patch to gtk that could be turned on/off through environment settings
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, Precisely what I am scoping.
<ali1234> i would support this, but i didn't particularly feel like fighting this fight myself
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, No. I would have done it sooner but I agree with what you say.
<flexiondotorg> ali1234, They do seem to be giving more ground recently though.
<ali1234> i think it's because things are stabilizing finally
<bluesabre> good evening folks
<elfy> hey bluesabre :)
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> ooh, people are around :D
<elfy> yep - you must be early :D
<knome> nooo, it can't be
<knome> we are the robots
<slickymaster> or we're running later
<elfy> nope
<elfy> I'm still awake :D
<knome> yep, it's not even midnight UTC ;)
<elfy> lol
<bluesabre> knome: going to fix the firefox thing tonight
<elfy> works here :)
<bluesabre> ali1234: nice graphic for the struts issue
<brainvvash> bluesabre, http://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=8022a52d10e834ef4481a317b11d6fe02a6c1bf3
<brainvvash> too slow :P
<bluesabre> I think the decided goal was fix it in xfwm and ubiquity, and if not, drop teh panel for beta2
<elfy> bluesabre: what's your opinion on us stabilising on just one release note?
<ali1234> xfwm is going to be a pain
<ali1234> the struts code is bad
<elfy> rather than what we do currently
<ali1234> it *can* be fixed though
<ali1234> it might even fix a load of other bugs
<bluesabre> brainvvash: good to see hjudt got to it before I did
<knome> bluesabre, i think hjudt is on it ;)
<bluesabre> elfy: I'm perfectly content with just one
<bluesabre> knome: I know I know
<bluesabre> so slow so slow
<knome> heh
<elfy> ochosi: ? what's your opinion on us stabilising on just one release note?
<knome> bluesabre, you got to get up the speed
<elfy> bluesabre: slow slow catchy the worm 
<elfy> the really fast ones have to make do with sheep and stuff
<elfy> :p
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> still catching up on today's backlog
<elfy> :)
<elfy> ochosi said you were having problems with that 
<elfy> was that just a time thing?
<knome> catching up with sheep?
<bluesabre> the whole issue with xfce and ubuntu development happening primarily in Europe while I'm at work? :D
<elfy> aah 
<elfy> so yes - time with a capital "There are timezones?"
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> still not sure what version of Eastern TZ Unit193 has, he is on often regardless of the hour
<elfy> bluesabre: I think the best thing to do with Unit193 is ignore time :D
<ochosi> evening folks
<ochosi> holy crap
<elfy> bluesabre: on the other hand - you can just ask people to summarise at the end of their day :D
<elfy> then just read one line :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> if you have that amount of backlog all the time, i get why you have trouble following up, bluesabre...
<elfy> ochosi: words in channel ? 
<elfy> :D
<ochosi> been pinged so often it'll take an hour until i've caught up or so
<elfy> do what I do - just say no - I didn't catch that when people ask :)
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> I do try to just ping people when I need a response 
<ochosi> yeah, makes sense
<ochosi> but i'm sorta responsible or "in the loop" with so many bugreports atm, that i feel i *have to* follow up
<ochosi> cause release time and al
<ochosi> l
<elfy> generally the things I need - everyone else can follow what I'm saying at the time I guess
<elfy> not an easy thing to deal with I guess]
<ochosi> ali1234: you should really add that graphic to the wm-hints docs! well done
<elfy> without an invite only channel and just be very specific about pings 
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> can be a pain, then again, many days of the year, that channel wouldn't be needed...
<elfy> yea
<elfy> doesn't need to be hidden - just voiced I suppose
<ochosi> prolly
<elfy> anyway - thoughts :)
<elfy> ochosi: my last ping to you was a serious one though - you got a problem with us stabilising on one release note?
<bluesabre> 99 problems, but a release note ain't one
<elfy> yep 
<knome> lol
<elfy> but I don't have to worry about the others bluesabre 
<knome> elfy, feel free to contact me on the note problemos
<elfy> bluesabre: and then it's final beta - and I'm wandering about trying to decide which to do - again 
<elfy> or release day 
<elfy> or any of the others 
<elfy> if I could do more then I would
<knome> elfy, well tbh i'm happy you can't... then you'd probably do less of what you did now and we need that done too :)
<elfy> mmm
<ochosi> phew, done with #xfce-dev, now xubuntu-devel...
<ochosi> so elfy, lemme try to answer your question before digging into that
<ochosi> have the release-notes changed alot since i reviewed them today?
<knome> i don't think so
<ochosi> still the pad?
<knome> it's released...
<ochosi> oh, we lost the blue sabre
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-15-04-beta-1/
<elfy> ochosi - that's not what I need, I'm happy to be responsible for it so other's can forget about it
<ochosi> hm, missing space after lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
<knome> that must be me
<elfy> but I'm not going to do 2 :)
<knome> fixed
<flexiondotorg> How did Xubuntu decide what language to include and ship?
<holstein> flexiondotorg: AFAIK, thats decided by ubuntu
<flexiondotorg> holstein, Really?
<holstein> to support english, mostly.. is that what you mean? 
<knome> it's a historical process, at one point we shipped as many languages as we could fit on the ISO, based on the speaker count of the language
<flexiondotorg> I checked what the various flavours were providing and it was different.
<flexiondotorg> knome, OK.
<ochosi> elfy: ok, finally caught up, what can i do for you again?
<knome> ochosi, i'll have some cookies and hot chocolate
<ochosi> yummy
<holstein> also, with internet access being as it is, its not as big a deal for an installer to just DL what it needs, now
<holstein> more so than in the past..
<knome> ochosi, i thought you would *do* them..
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i just thought they were yummy
<knome> :D
<elfy> ochosi: do you have an issue with us just having 1 release note - either on website or as wiki
<elfy> I'm happy to take responsibility for IT :)
<knome> let me explain why it is now - for another historical process and marketing gobbledigook:
<knome> (doesn't mean how you need to do it in the future)
<ochosi> elfy: oh, i'm fine with only website tbh. apart from markup, is there any reason for having both? knome?
<elfy> knome: hang on
<knome> the website one is the one that is mostly directed at non-technical people who should mostly be concerned about the worst known issues
<zequence> When are you expecting the next xfce release?
<elfy> regardless of before 
<knome> and maybe the highlights
<ochosi> zequence: this weekend
<zequence> ochosi: Thanks
<knome> the wiki one has used to be the one with a full listing of bugs, bug fixes and whatever, for those who are interested in the minutiae of the technical side as well
<knome> elfy, i know, i just wanted to explain what we're doing now :)
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> knome: you got 10 to go PM with this? 
<knome> ochosi, we would have to check if the release team wishes to point to wiki pages for flavors' notes, otherwise no blocker there
<elfy> take it out of here for a moment 
<knome> wfm :)
<bluesabre> maybe just the wiki for final releases?
<bluesabre> it can be a wasted effort between milestones
<elfy> bluesabre: that makes a lot of sense for one major reason
<elfy> they don't do most milestones so "full listing of bugs, bug fixes and whatever" only apppears then
<knome> otoh, doing the release announcement (at least the final) is good to do on the website, because then it'll get posted to planet ubuntu
<bluesabre> oh
<knome> and it *is* the priority output for stuff to *users*
<bluesabre> not what I meant in my order of workds
<bluesabre> *words
<bluesabre> website only for milestones, wiki+website for final releases
<bluesabre> we can edit the wiki as we go throughout the dev cycle to have a complete item by release time
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> elfy, knome: thoughts?
<knome> bluesabre, wait
<bluesabre> I wouldn't be opposed to regularly contributing to that myself with changes
<elfy> bluesabre ochosi - how about I try and come up with some sort of proposal for the whole of that with knome - then discuss that ?
<ochosi> sure
<bluesabre> alrighty
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre and me will work on really important stuff and leave you to the admin fun ;)
<bluesabre> let me know when/if you'd like my input... I'd certainly like to help more on that side
<knome> working on a proposal with elfy :)
<ochosi> ali1234: that ubiquity panel bug was sorta touched by bdmurray, did you talk to him or did he just notice?
<ochosi> ali1234: and, is there anything i should follow up on here or are things moving in the right direction already with the MR?
<ali1234> i didn't, no
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> maybe cyphermox can take a look at your merge request (https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/ubiquity/struts/+merge/251173)
<ali1234> i don't think there's anything else to do. i mean you could try building the patched ubiquity and testing it with every WM/installer
<ochosi> (most subtle ping ever)
<ali1234> but that's a huge pita
<ali1234> i did CC him on it
<ochosi> Unit193: as our iso specialist, how hard would that ^ be?
<ali1234> apparently you can do it by copying in the patched ubiquity before the installer starts up properly
<cyphermox> o/
<elfy> hi 
<bluesabre> ubiquity can be tested by killing in on the live cd, this method works for me: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1375893/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1375893 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Black background to Try/Install Dialogue" [Medium,Fix released]
<elfy> thanks bluesabre :)
<elfy> I have done that - but forgot :)
<ali1234> bluesabre: boot to live desktop?
<ochosi> evening cyphermox!
<bluesabre> boot to install
<bluesabre> tty1
<bluesabre> stop processes, update ubiquity, start ubiquity
<ochosi> "talk to you one"?
<ochosi> :]
<bluesabre> it sometimes only works one or twice in a session
<ochosi> bluesabre: works in vbox too, right?
<bluesabre> with ubiquity failing to start up later, but it works for quick testing patches
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes
<ochosi> cool
<bluesabre> right-ctrl+F1
<cyphermox> ochosi: hey, good evening
<bluesabre> hey cyphermox 
<ochosi> so let's get to testing this patch by ali1234 then to see whether it fixes things..
<cyphermox> ali1234: so, steps to test this aren't *that* bad. you spin up an iso image, pass break=bottom to the command-line and when you get a prompt, you use it to retrieve a pre-build new panel binary with your changes into the root filesystem. But *that* part, copying files and setting up the right environment to be able to do it, is a little more tricky
<cyphermox> I run a small webserver on my machine to be able to wget the files I need
<ali1234> yeah that's what i would do
<ali1234> just wget the bin...
<ali1234> on a completely unrelated note, it would be nice to get this fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/1270090
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1270090 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "time-admin can not install ntp" [Medium,Confirmed]
<cyphermox> so, I'll get started on testing this, but not just now. I'm waiting for my wife to pick me up and then I'll be out for a good part of the evening
<ali1234> if someone could bump my patch for vivid that would be helpful
<ali1234> i never know how to do the changelogs etc for the packaging
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> I think the patch probably won't need much updating
<cyphermox> looks like g-s-t is still at 3.0.0
<ali1234> i don;t think the package has been touched in years
<cyphermox> ... but that means it's also likely that it will break as soon as someone touches it
<ali1234> my patch is actually a patch to a patch :)
<zequence> ali1234: polkit is needed here, I assume
<cyphermox> ah, maybe not, it's a slightly new revision for vivid
<zequence> synaptic is a good example on how to a gksudo replacement
<ali1234> it uses packagekit, not sure about deps but it built in a ppa for trusty
<cyphermox> ali1234: I'll see if I have the time to look at that later tonight
<zequence> "pkexec synaptic" will prompt for a sudo password, since there are polkit rules for it
<ali1234> zequence: synaptic is not installed by default though
<zequence> ali1234: Just saying you could look at that package for seeing how it is done
<ali1234> packagekit is better than synaptic anyway
<ali1234> the ntp installer thingy is actually a distropatch anyway, so i just changed it to use packagekit instead of synaptic, and keepng the same function prototypes
<zequence> ok, I wasn't talking about package managers. Just about how to get sudo privilege using polkit
<zequence> If you install synaptic, you won't be able to run it just with "synaptic". You need to use polkit, and thus, you need to do: "pkexec synaptic", which works, since the synaptic package also installs polkit rules
<zequence> polkit being policy kit
<ali1234> yeah, i know all about this
<zequence> ok, good
<ali1234> it's not relevant for this particular package because all it wants to do is install some other packages
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-27
<zequence> Don't know the details. Just saw the remark about gksudo
<zequence> ..which is why I started talking about polkit
<ali1234> it used to do "gksudo synaptic" but neither of those are available in a default install... and this package *is* in a default install
<zequence> ok, graphical package installation is beyond me anyway
<zequence> Each time I try showing someone how to use Ubuntu Software Center, I realize it's not doing things so well
<ochosi> cyphermox: thanks a bunch! your efforts are much-appreciated!
<ali1234> it's surprisingly easy actually. and packagekit doesn't load up the full software centre
<ali1234> i'm not sure what it does load, but basically it just shows a small UI for password and then a progress bar. very minimal
<ali1234> same thing the software updater does i suspect
<zequence> an apt fronten then?
<ochosi> ali1234: if you know how to use packagekit, the parole gst plugin installer could use a bump (neither bluesabre nor i really have time to learn packagekit unfortunately)
<ali1234> i guess. packagekit works with rpm too though
<ali1234> ochosi: was just thinking about that
<ochosi> we have several bugreports that are all because of the silly gst scripty installer
<zequence> Ah, it's supposed to work the same over all distributions
<ochosi> it's almost never working at all
<ali1234> yeah that thing never works :(
<ali1234> i just install mpv and it does everything :P
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> parole works well though in general
<ali1234> http://www.freedesktop.org/software/PackageKit/files/session.c <- this is how you do it
<ochosi> (as long as all needed plugins are installed)
<ali1234> it's really simple
<ali1234> just fill const gchar *packages[] and feed it to that block of code
<ochosi> still, i'm so caught up with the 4.12 release that i don't think i wanna focus on anything new atm
<ochosi> so patches would still be much appreciated
<ali1234> i'm pretty busy here too
<ali1234> maybe some day though
<ochosi> okeydokey
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-release-notes-process
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre ^
<knome> that's using the same base we do now, but with more emphasis on wiki than before
<bluesabre> knome, elfy: looks good to me
<elfy> :)
 * bluesabre remembers to upload Unit193's packages
<knome> that's good
<pleia2> elfy: oh yeah, I did the fb and g+ things hours ago but forgot
<knome> hmm
<knome> and i should have tweeted
<knome> BAH
<knome> people should tell me when i'm silly
<pleia2> knome said he'd tweet so I didn't do that
<pleia2> :P
<knome> i just did
<pleia2> \o/
<bluesabre> :D
<cyphermox> ali1234: I just finished fixing up your patch changes for g-s-t, going to see if it still builds
<cyphermox> (and if it still works)
<cyphermox> ali1234: looks great, works fine, but I still need to make sure what is the best way to make sure packagekit is always available when that package is installed... ie. Depends on packagekit, but that doesn't seem like the best of ideas.
<cyphermox> and then possibly a freeze exception
<ali1234> cyphermox: thanks very much. i assume freeze exception is much like asking for a SRU? if so, i can write that up
<flexiondotorg> Are you seeing general gtk2 stability issues in i386?
<flexiondotorg> Seems most issues being found in Ubuntu MATE 15.04 are gtk2 released.
<flexiondotorg> And i386 only?!
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1425499
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1425499 in mate-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Mate power manager crashed on cold boot" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<knome> flexiondotorg, i think the cross-flavor/flavor agnostic QA issues would be better in #ubuntu-quality 
<ali1234> flexiondotorg: random crashes are bad news. do you have access to e.u.c?
<flexiondotorg> e.u.c?
<ali1234> https://errors.ubuntu.com
 * flexiondotorg goes to e.u.c to see if I can access
<ali1234> you can see the general stats but not the individual reports, unless you specifically ask for permissions
<flexiondotorg> Well, I see something.
<ali1234> the interface is a bit hard to use and quite slow
<ali1234> i don't see a huge amount of gtk2 related stuff in 15.05
<brainvvash> ali1234, run hexchat and then xfwm4 --replace (built-in compositor enabled)
<brainvvash> probably 32bit only crash
<ali1234> brainvvash: nothing unusual happened
<brainvvash> hexchat tray icon was visible, right?
<ali1234> no idea, what does it look like?
<brainvvash> strange question, does starting hexchat add anything to the notification area?
<brainvvash> the little hexagon icon
<brainvvash> or the thunar copy tray icon
<brainvvash> may trigger the crash too
<ali1234> brainvvash: yeah the icon is there
<brainvvash> up-to-date 15.04 (32bit)?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> trusty 64 bit
<brainvvash> then you cannot trigger the crash
<ochosi> cyphermox: ping
<cyphermox> ochosi: pong?
<ochosi> cyphermox: quick question, since i presume you're fairly familiar with ubiquity's codebase (which i'm not, at least not really)...
<cyphermox> getting there ;)
<ochosi> it seems to set the popup dialogs to horizontally maximized
<ochosi> at least that's what xprop tells me
<ochosi> and that leads to our wm removing the dialogs borders, because it thinks it's tiled
<cyphermox> could that not also be caused by the struts?
<ochosi> visual outcome: https://i.imgur.com/hxmrz2d.png
<cyphermox> I don't recall seeing anything to maximize dialogs in ubiquity
<ochosi> xprop of the dialog window: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10450617/
<ochosi> it says
<ochosi> _NET_WM_STATE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_STATE_MODAL, _NET_WM_STATE_MAXIMIZED_HORZ
<ochosi> me neither, but i've only very briefly browsed the source
<cyphermox> nah, I think that may be just how gtk builds the dialogs given what we pass to them, but I can look
<ochosi> hmmm
<ochosi> k, thanks
<ochosi> cyphermox: maybe it's really the struts causing that, the dialogs seem to be fairly standard gtkdialogs from what i see
<ali1234> cyphermox: i just noticed my ubiquity patch won't work because it will refuse to do anything if you tell it left_size = 0
<elfy> Unit193: something up with core? Seems stuck rebuilding for the last 12 hours
<ochosi> knome: you asked me for more 16px shots with context, sorry that got lost, i've been too busy/distracted with tons of other stuff...
<ochosi> basically you can very easily test it
<ochosi> if you wanna test it, just run this in a terminal:
<ochosi> xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/IconSizes -s "gtk-button=16,16"
<ochosi> to revert, replace 16,16 with 22,22
<ochosi> or just ""
<elfy> ochosi: I need to add in today and tomorrow for the 'up to end Feb' sticker list
<elfy> beta list is done and we has first person to contact :)
<ochosi> nice!
<elfy> postponing autopilot on the blueprint 
<elfy> I'm not sure we're ever going to get anywhere with that 
<ochosi> not sure what's needed for that, i haven't really looked into autopilot at all (ever)
<ochosi> isn't gtk3 a requirement for that?
<elfy> ochosi: yep
<ochosi> right, in that case we have to wait till xfce is ported :)
<elfy> it actively hates on gtk2 :p
<ochosi> otherwise it won't make much sense
<elfy> well yes - that 
<elfy> also - actually getting them done :)
<ochosi> well we can start that when xfce 4.14 is approaching release ;)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I'm more than happy to not keep putting it on blueprints to then POSTPONED during the cycle :)
<elfy> jjfrv8: re dailies - they'll continue to have the issue in 'Install' until the fix lands 
<elfy> slickymaster: I finally got around to finishing https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1391636/+merge/245409
<elfy> removed menu bar completely :)
<slickymaster> yeah, I saw the notification
<slickymaster> I'll review it this weekend
<elfy> no rush - when you get to it :)
<slickymaster> I know, no sweat
<ochosi> jjfrv8: so we're using greybird from now on for xfce docs screenshots \o/
<ochosi> jjfrv8: the rest of the screenshot guidelines remains intact though
<slickymaster> ochosi, those changes, were they saved on http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> in fact for that part, the "theme config" part can completely go away
<slickymaster> regarding the icons, ochosi, we're still going with Elementary Xfce?
<ochosi> only for parole
<slickymaster> oki doke
<ochosi> because xfce in general used faenza
<ochosi> to make this a smaller departure from previous screenshots (so that we don't have to redo all of them immediately) we're sticking to those for now
<ochosi> maybe in the next iteration we'll only update icon theme and keep greybird
<slickymaster> ok, I'll update that page accordingly 
<ochosi> http://docs.xfce.org/contribute/documentation?&#screenshots
<ochosi> for reference
<ochosi> ty slickymaster 
<slickymaster> np
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, ali and olivier poked the ubiquity panel situation quite a bit tonight
<ochosi> since this is sorta xubuntu-exclusive, i'm mentioning it here
<ochosi> the outcome is that we should try to fix the struts the ubiquity panel sets, cause those are faulty
<ochosi> but it seems xfwm4 might also have to do a better job at dealing with these situations
<ochosi> (although that panel seems an extreme case)
<ochosi> i'd say if it's not resolved until shortly before b2, we drop the panel again
<bluesabre> ochosi: sounds good to me
<bluesabre> ochosi: tons of backlog, anything in particular I should note?
<ochosi> for which channel specifically?
<ochosi> or just in general?
<bluesabre> any
<bluesabre> in a bit of a hurry, gotta run again in a bit
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> nah, i think nothing too important
<bluesabre> anything you need me to fix tonight?
 * ochosi checks...
<ochosi> oh btw, one more remark wrt ubiquity
<ochosi> the popup dialog loses its border because for some weird reason it's marked as partially maximized
<ochosi> i.e. horizontally maximized
<ochosi> (in the wm hints)
<ochosi> xprop tells you that
<ochosi> that's why xfwm4 strips the deco
<ochosi> could be related to the struts mess though
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> but if not, we can resolve it by flipping the switch on the option i mentioned the other day
<bluesabre> was going to apply the xfconf setting, but not an easy way to do for just ubiquity
<ochosi> yeah
 * bluesabre looked into it last night
<ochosi> i guess it'd have to be a general setting
<ochosi> unfortunately you can't start xfwm4 with a specified profile or give it options on the cli
<ochosi> at least afaik
<bluesabre> In generally, I don't like losing window manager borders when tiling, etc
<ochosi> s/generally/general/
<bluesabre> fullscreen is ok, otherwise meh
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> yeah, i agree
<bluesabre> typing fast and talking at the same time
<ochosi> i also argued that with olivier for a while today
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> but he wants to keep the status quo, because then windows tile correctly
<ochosi> otherwise terminals and other windows that set size increments leave spaces in between
<ochosi> which actually sucks
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that explains that difference
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> was overjoyed to see CSDs working well in trusty with -staging today (at work)
<ochosi> fwiw, that problem still exists with corner tiling
<bluesabre> geary looks much better with just one title
<ochosi> because with corner-tiling you still keep the deco
<ochosi> so the terminal is not tiled correctly
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> so corner tiling is sane at least ;)
<ochosi> i actually think we should change our strategy in one of the next releases wrt CSD
<ochosi> and just keep whatever upstream does
<bluesabre> I don't mind CSDs as much anymore, it works well for some things (not all, silly gnome)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> especially apps that don't rely on menubars :)
<bluesabre> I think at this point, xfwm4 handles csds better than unity
<bluesabre> and mate
<bluesabre> we're leaders :D
<ochosi> that's quite probable, i think compiz has only been patched so-so for CSDs
<ochosi> cause the unity guys don't like them (or some of them at least)
<bluesabre> no menus takes away several unity benefits
<bluesabre> s/takes/take
<bluesabre> maybe
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> well some
<bluesabre> <3 hud
<bluesabre> when using inkscape and gimp, at least
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i'd love to have that in xubuntu
<ochosi> but that's for another day ;)
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> one day
<ochosi> a single day
<bluesabre> after I finish the keyboard-overlay
<ochosi> that should be enough
<ochosi> haha
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> optimistic
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> yeah, your first xubuntu project iirc
<ochosi> luckily we didn't judge you based on that ;D
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> I started complaining about icons and parole
<bluesabre> and then catfish
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, i remember a daily stream of bugreports i had to tackle
<bluesabre> ;)
 * ochosi tries not to feel nostalgic about that
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-28
<knome> elfy, is bug 1391636 still not "released" ?:)
<ubottu> bug 1391636 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "1583 Errors in testcase" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1391636
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you have time to upload the bugfix release for xfce4-xkb-plugin?
<Noskcaj> also, lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-sensors-plugin/1.2.6
<knome> bluesabre,  [bluesabre] Update Catfish and Mugshot authentication to use PolicyKit: INPROGRESS
<knome> bluesabre, that accurate?
<jjfrv8> elfy, ack
<jjfrv8> ochosi, thx, will start on the screenshots. almost ready for you to review the text.
<bluesabre> knome: 
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> ok
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10459585/
<bluesabre> ^ see :D
 * knome shuts eyes and ears and shouts "LALALALALA"
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: taking a look now, thanks :)
<Unit193> elfy: No idea really in terms of that, nothing is built as far as the tracker "knows"
<elfy> Unit193: ta - actually thinking about it - that shouldn't ever rebuild - cancelled the rebuild
<elfy> morning 
<elfy> knome: no - it's not released yet
<knome> lol
<elfy> and ... I think it needs more reworking now too sigh
<knome> 4.12?
<elfy> yea - the one I see here doesn't hang about in the panel for a start, need to look at that before slickymaster does 
<knome> mm
<knome> hr hr
<elfy> yep :)
<elfy> made a start on this rolling base release note thing
<knome> nice
<knome> where'd you put it?
<elfy> it's still in my sandbox - but when I put it somewhere useful it'll be wiki/xubuntu/testing/foo 
<knome> or, since it's release specific
<knome> under wiki/xubuntu/roadmap/foo
<elfy> slight change to that plan ... 
<elfy> I thought more about it while driving in circles :)
<knome> well any place works for me really
<knome> as long as it's easily discoverable
<elfy> 'maybe' better to have a real rolling one - then when it's time to do WibblyWhinocewos/Beta1 - just copy the text
<knome> hehe
<knome> yes, better to have something that's not going to be the final one
<knome> or the one that's used
<elfy> rather than keep recreating a cycle base 
<elfy> yep for sure
<knome> oh right
<knome> well,
 * knome shrugs
<knome> i don't know how much we want to keep from the prev cycle
<knome> maybe the bugs :)
<knome> but yes
<knome> approve any direction you are going to take on it :P
<elfy> my 'vision' if you want to call it that is have 'a base' then just update it - and if bugs are left over - then they're still there so should be on it anyway :)
<knome> yes
<knome> but wouldn't that page be used to gather new features as well?
<elfy> yes 
<knome> those do not stick after release
<elfy> but then they'd get removed from the base at cycle end
<knome> yes, sure
<elfy> I'll play a bit this cycle just to be sure - then use it properly for WW 
<knome> mhm
<elfy> shame we can't drag info from LP to wiki 
<elfy> simply 
<knome> keep me on the loop so i know what needs to be written process description-wise
<elfy> yep - I will
<knome> i can write a script that converts lp stuff to wiki markup on request if that's useful
<elfy> ok - I'll think about that - ty knome :)
<knome> np
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> bbl
<knome> have a happy 4.12 releasing day!
<knome> *release here though, i guess
<knome> i can tweet stuff when i get back :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> have a good one
<bluesabre> made possible by xubuntu 12.04: http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-0-10-3-released-td45534.html
<elfy> bluesabre: don't want to pollute xfce-dev, but in the version I've got here, 1.6.5 I get same error message, but usb doesn't show in thunar at all  
<elfy> also from a clean boot - same thing, nothing showing in thunar when I plug USB
<bluesabre> elfy: good to know
<bluesabre> elfy: polluted for you
<bluesabre> :P
<elfy> lol I saw that :p
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, So what's the plan of attack for getting 4.12 into ubuntu? Do we have an FFe already?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1424887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,Triaged]
<bluesabre> ochosi and I are working out the details for extra components to include
<bluesabre> I'd recommend starting to package released components, but wait to upload until the release announcement is made
<Noskcaj> ok
<bluesabre> any that you're working on, let me know so we don't double the work :)
<bluesabre> I probably won't get to package many today myself, looking like tomorrow morning will be my go time
<Noskcaj> phillw.net/ubuntu-gnome/Xvivid410.html will have 4.12 in a few hours
<bluesabre> cool
<Noskcaj> http://phillw.net/ubuntu-gnome/Xvivid412.html
<bluesabre> ochosi, Noskcaj : list updated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1424887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,Triaged]
<bluesabre> elfy: these things will appear in the next few days :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: too, in case you're feeling package-uploady
<Noskcaj> Would it be easier if i put it in a PPA and you then copy it to vivid?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: yeah, that'd be fine. I'd dget the dsc, build, verify, and upload
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> i'll do thunar and tumbler first
<ochosi> quite a huge list :)
<bluesabre> great, thanks for your help!
 * bluesabre pokes the release-team to ack the extra packages
<ochosi> that FFe is quite nice, 15.04 will really be a pretty cool release
<elfy> bluesabre: ack
<elfy> lol - that's for "these things will appear in the next few days :)"
<elfy> does that mean I can nix -staging? 
<elfy> purge it and wait for things to land for real? 
<bluesabre> at that point, yeah, we'll finally be stable
<elfy> bluesabre: ok
<elfy> and for the second I'll ack whatever :p
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> ooh - the *other* release team :D
<bluesabre> hehe
<elfy> the troublemakers ... 
<bluesabre> wait, we're talking about #xubuntu-offtopic folks now?
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - want me to +1 in -release as well? 
<bluesabre> elfy: by all means :)
<ochosi> sure go ahead
<ochosi> we might have to follow up on that anyway
<Skullyripz> Hello
<ochosi> hi
<Skullyripz> I'm very new to Xubuntu, but I really like it. I have some ideas that I'd like to start working on, but I wanted some feedback first.
<Skullyripz> I'd like to add a feature to the search bar in the Whisker Menu to include file search. Do you know if anyone has already begun working on something similar?
<Noskcaj> Skullyripz, It's an existing request, i'll find the bug now
<ochosi> you can already use catfish via a custom action for whiskermenu
<ochosi> imo that's even better than making whiskermenu bigger
<Noskcaj> +1
<Skullyripz> I see. I will definitely look in to that.
<Noskcaj> The upstream bug is https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11551 , made by the upstream dev, so something that doesn't need manual config is on the TODO list
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11551 in General "Search for files and folders in the search bar" [Enhancement,New]
<Skullyripz> Perfect. Thanks for the heads up. Looking now.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, thunar, thunar-volman, and tumbler are done in ppa:noskcaj/xfce-4.12 if you want to copypackage them
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> so to use ! in whiskermenu - would ! ls /usr/share be supposed to run that in a terminal? 
<ochosi> for me that opens a terminal but it closes again immediately
<elfy> right - glad you said that - I see the same thing 
<Skullyripz> I see the capability you referenced with catfish and the whiskermenu. However, you don't feel that it would be better served docked within the menu, the same way the application search works?
<Skullyripz> This way, you would not need to open up a separate application to search for and open a file
<ochosi> elfy: maybe warrants a bugreport, but i guess against the term, not whisker
<elfy> ochosi: mmk - I'll do that tomorrow 
<ochosi> k, cool
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: thanks, I'll get started with those (and anything else you link me) a bit later today
<bluesabre> this author has not heard of xubuntu it seems, http://news.softpedia.com/news/Manajaro-Is-the-First-Distro-with-Xfce-4-12-and-It-s-Insanely-Fast-Screenshot-Tour-473938.shtml
<knome> silviu stahie...
<knome> bluesabre, if you're on g+... https://plus.google.com/+SilviuStahie
<knome> or twitter https://twitter.com/thesilviu
<Unit193> bluesabre: Re: xfce-4.12 or packaging?
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> well, we've been carrying xfce-4.12(ish) packages for quite some time now
<Unit193> I was talking about your ping. :P
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> Unit193: packaging if you want
 * bluesabre needs to clean the apartment, bbabl
<knome> :D
<knome> what a way to party
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'll dance around while cleaning
<Unit193> Right, catch it if there's anything left Monday.
<knome> lol
<ecsooboontoo> Congratulations! fellahs on releasing xfce4.12; a job well done!
<elfy> ochosi: bug 1426770 
<ubottu> bug 1426770 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "Run In Terminal from whiskermenu fails" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1426770
<ecsooboontoo> I have but one question,though. How do I upgrade to xfce4.12 with Xubuntu14.04point two ? Do I need the PPA to the repo list?
<brainwash> elfy: works here
<brainwash> elfy: you should have filed the report against whiskermenu I think
<elfy> I'm just doing what I was asked to do 
<elfy> and it didn't work there either
<brainwash> "a command" means any command?
<elfy> ?
<brainwash> "!mousepad" opens a terminal window and mousepad
<knome> q
<knome> hmm, oops.
<elfy> que? 
<knome> wrong window...
<elfy> brainwash: mmm - bad wording perhaps then 
<brainwash> you mean shell command?
<elfy> run in terminal certainly implies to me it should run a command in a terminal
<elfy> anyway - whatever
<brainwash> heh, yeah, I don't really understand what might be wrong
<elfy> it's saturday night 
<brainwash> just tested it and it works here
<knome> elfy, that's not "wrong" :P
<elfy> try doing what's in the bug then - does that work?
<Skullyripz> I believe what was trying to be accomplished in the whiskermenu is "!ls /usr/share"
<Skullyripz> This does not work for me either
<baizon> hi, quick question, any plans for xfce 4.12 and xubuntu 15.04?
<elfy> baizon: there's an FFe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1424887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,Triaged]
<baizon> thank you elfy 
<elfy> welcome :)
<elfy> Skullyripz: yea - possibly it's just supposed to open a terminal and an application - seems rather pointless though 
<knome> i would imagine the problem is similar to running "ls /home/" from xfrun4
<knome> or tbe, 'xfce4-terminal -X ls /home'
<Skullyripz> elfy: I agree; why not just hit 'CTRL - ALT - T' and enter the command?
<Skullyripz> This process would be much faster
<knome> Skullyripz, that's not the point here
<Skullyripz> Is the function just used to view the terminal run messages for applications?
<knome> elfy, want to try something?
<elfy> only if it's legal
<knome> haha
<knome> sure
<knome> /usr/share/xfce4/helpers/xfce4-terminal.desktop
<knome> add -H to last line;
<knome> X-XFCE-CommandsWithParameter=%B -H -x %s;
<knome> save, and retry
<elfy> yep
<elfy> works
<knome> mhm...
<knome> now you always have to close the terminal window, but...
<Skullyripz> Sweet!
<Skullyripz> Works for me too
<elfy> yea - have to close window
<knome> commented on the bug
<elfy> I guess it depends on what ! is actually expected to do - if it's as brainwash thinks - then bug's invalid
<elfy> knome: ok - thanks :)
<knome> elfy, did you use thunderbird?
<knome> elfy, i'm not sure, but i think clicking a link in TB doesn't actually open FF any more, it says FF is running but not responding
<knome> potentially related to the other exo change...
<brainwash> elfy: right, if a command exits after doing its job, then the terminal is expected to close itself
<knome> brainwash, but that's not useful for, say, invoking ls commands
<brainwash> it may be not, but it's the default behavior
<knome> sure, i agree with it.
<knome> but hey, if somebody wants to run ls commands from whisker and doesn't mind closing the terminal windows... that's what the parameter is there for
<knome> though it doesn't let you start typing other commands to the same window
<brainwash> run ! first and then type the command
<knome> i mean the same terminal window
<knome> if that's desired.
<knome> oh, right
<knome> yeah...
<knome> i guess so :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do we want gtk3 mousepad or gtk2?
<brainwash> we have gtk3 parole, so... :)
<brainwash> did anyone test gtk3 mousepad?
<Skullyripz> Seems silly
<elfy> knome: tbird links work ok 
<elfy> what version?
<knome> elfy, utopic
 * knome shrugs
<knome> probably just my config then
<elfy> aah right - vivid is still behind
<elfy> nope - same version
<elfy> mmm 
<elfy> slight difference 1:31.4.0+build1-0ubuntu1 in vivid, utopic is ubuntu0
<knome> as i said, not worried yet
<knome> i can live with it
<elfy> knome: someone on -users list had similar issue, but changing to fix with your dekstop fix you pointed me at sorted it
<knome> heh
<knome> weirdo
<elfy> trying
<knome> oh
<knome> nbm
<knome> *nvm
<knome> i had new new config
<elfy> :)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I've done some basic testing and gtk3 mousepad seems to be all good
<GridCube> all spanish translations and normalizations are approved
<knome> thanks GridCube 
<GridCube> :)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: if it looks fine with Greybird and Numix, I wouldn't be opposed to the gtk3 version of it. Does it use headerbars, or is it really just the same exact interface in gtk3?
<knome> bluesabre, what is that "and Numix" heresy, it's not our default theme :P
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-01
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, looks pretty much the same
<bluesabre> knome: its the only other theme we install, it must be important ;)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: alrighty, let's go with gtk3 for now :)
<Noskcaj> in the ppa
<bluesabre> good job
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> bluesabre, squeak squeak
<bluesabre> knome: moo moo
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: do we want to set /xfwm4/general/borderless_maximize to FALSE in x-d-s?
<knome> bluesabre, np: Edson / I Am the Ostrich
<ochosi> bluesabre: wat, when does the work finally end? i thought we just *released* something big??
<ochosi> and no, we don't have to
<knome> i knew we'd have questions about 4.12 in trusty... i've seen several today already
<ochosi> obviously you didn't read the memo (despite releasing it) http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=b7b62c69add6a4bf5d6bde52548b5346d3a78265
<knome> lol
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I copy and paste like a champ
<knome> oh, so that's how you got your job
 * knome hides
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> working with jquery, I spend a lot of time copy-pasting, yes
<knome> hah!
<knome> that's cheating
<ochosi> hah
<knome> jquery is relatively easy
<knome> *i* can write it..
<bluesabre> yeah, I can write it no problem
<knome> ochosi, https://twitter.com/xfceofficial/status/571784832092659712
<bluesabre> its the libraries that use it that kill me
<bluesabre> but thats -offtopic :P
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> brb, time for a clean reboot
 * knome prepares going to bed
<ochosi> hmm, what do we have in the PPA already?
<Noskcaj> All the stuff that isn't versioned as 4.12 should be done in PPA
<Noskcaj> plus dev-tools and xfdesktop4
<ochosi> wait, all the stuff that is *not* ?
<Noskcaj> e.g. garcon
<Noskcaj> part of the 4.12 release, but not 4.12.*
<bluesabre> ochosi: Noskcaj has been packaging things, going to start syncing to our PPAs
<ochosi> ah ok, not yet synced
<ochosi> that's what i wanted to know
<ochosi> thanks Noskcaj!
<Noskcaj> np
<ochosi> great that things are moving so swiftly suddenly :)
<Noskcaj> I had an issue with exo, so it's not done.
<ochosi> sure, but it's a great start
<ochosi> i mean the weekend isn't over yet ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> its only just begun
<Noskcaj> Are we ok with the xfwm4 default changes? compositing and window previews by default
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, midday sunday
<ochosi> tomorrow there'll be tons of 4.12.1 releases to fix oversights
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: yes, that's fine for us
<Noskcaj> as in, that's the time now
<Noskcaj> cool
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: sorry your weekend gets to you faster :(
<ochosi> ah darn, i forgot that you live in the future, Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> :)
<knome> ochosi, the new default wallpaper for 4.12 is really nice ;)
<bluesabre> +1
<knome> ochosi, which version did you end up using?
<ochosi> hehe, someone loves themselves some self-praise over here ;)
<bluesabre> haha
 * knome coughs :P
<knome> knowingly he asks!
<ochosi> i tweaked the colors of the v3 to work better on bad displays
<knome> ok
<knome> i'm lazy, so you should pop the latest version somewhere
<ochosi> well, bad displays remain bad, but at least the wall should look a little less bland there now
<ochosi> the source is even in the xfce-artwork tarball
<ochosi> on xfce.org
 * ochosi did his homework
<knome> i told you i'm lazy
<knome> bah :P
<ochosi> gah, tomorrow i have to add redirects for all the 4.11 docs to 4.12
<ochosi> craaaaap :)
<knome> heh
<ochosi> and make the 1.4 powerman docs the main docs and all that
<knome> hmm
<ochosi> doc-rotate
<knome> why isn't there the new wallpaper on frontpage?
<bluesabre> I'll be around in the morning (your noon/afternoon)
<ochosi> i think that part just hasn't been touched yet
<bluesabre> knome: front page not updated it seems
<knome> mhm
<knome> ochosi, not here: http://archive.xfce.org/src/art/xfce4-artwork/
<knome> oh
<ochosi> not here? http://cdn.xfce.org/downloads/xfce_artwork.tar.bz2
<knome> no
<knome> can't be there
<ochosi> nick said he updated the tarball with the svg and i trusted him
<knome> fwiw,
<ochosi> end of story
<knome> we should add the svg logo there
<knome> oh
<knome> it's there
<knome> i wonder which version it is
<knome> says 2005...
<ochosi> bluesabre: sounds good, maybe we can get some more stuff done
<ochosi> knome: yeah, dunno, i guess you gotta ask nick about these things
<knome> ah, it's just the mose icon
<knome> mouse
<knome> yeaah...
<ochosi> a moose?
<knome> that.
<ochosi> bluesabre: although i hope not too much will turn up until then...
 * knome just switched to using the xfce wallpapers
<bluesabre> ochosi: hopefully not
<knome> anything else you need from me before i hit the sack?
<bluesabre> knome: go, be free
<ochosi> hit it!
<ochosi> plural?
<knome> night everybody
<zero_x> Noob question here, Is 15.04 going to include XFCE 4.12?
<bluesabre> zero_x: Yes
<zero_x> Thanks
<bluesabre> np
<bluesabre> I get a star for that one
 * ochosi pins a star on bluesabre's chest
<bluesabre> yeowch!
<ochosi> how do you like the honor now?
<bluesabre> :D
<Noskcaj> Should appfinder be changed to gtk3?
<ochosi> not sure, you could check the mem footprint and test the performance
<ochosi> there's not really any obvious reason to switch to gtk3 for any of those apps, other than maybe help xfce test stuf
<ochosi> f
<Noskcaj> ok, i'll leave it on gtk2 then test gtk3 later
<Noskcaj> Should we be trying to get whiskermenu 1.5 for 15.04?
<ochosi> would be nice, after all, then we can also ship the settings file in the proper place
<Noskcaj> I'll make an FFe sometime soonish then
<ochosi> yeah, but don't forget there that we need to move the config
<ochosi> for the default setup i mean
<ochosi> other than that, goody
<Noskcaj> Well shit. we have to rebuild all of xfce
<ochosi> from the ground?
<Noskcaj> libxfce4util got a SONAME bump
<Noskcaj> 0 other changes from 4.11, but rebuild time
<Noskcaj> I nominate bluesabre, since upload rights are needed for that type of thing
 * bluesabre stops uploading
<Noskcaj> I've uploaded util to ppa now, just parole and exo left.
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I'll upload libxfce4util and libxfce4ui in the morning, trigger rebuilds of things already uploaded, and the upload everything else
<Noskcaj> cool
<bluesabre> thanks for all your hard work
<ochosi> +1
<Noskcaj> np
<Noskcaj> I'm just glad to see 4.12 released
<bluesabre> yeah, glad to have some code we've been hacking on for a few years get the "stable" label
<Noskcaj> hopefully 4.14's gtk3, wnck3, glib2.0 won't take as long
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I think this release will definitely remind people that xfce is still around
<bluesabre> we might get more development interest
<Noskcaj> That's the dream
<bluesabre> and people stepping up to help with porting :)
<ochosi> so far only big words :)
<ochosi> but that might change
<bluesabre> I expect it will
<ochosi> so tomorrow: doc-rotate and set up 4.14 roadmap page
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> heading to bed, night all
<Noskcaj> One change i found with mousepad, the statusbar is gone when you change to gtk3 and when re-enabled it is twice as high. I'm not sure if that's just from the new mousepad release though
<elfy> ochosi: QA incentive - same person for cycle to end of Feb and Beta, saves on postage I guess :D
<knome> lol
<knome> what's our policy on that?
<knome> i mean, do we keep sending stickers to the same person
<knome> or can you win at most one milestone/month/final per cycle?
<elfy> well - I guess if I'd have thought of the scenario last cycle then I would have 1 at most per cycle
<elfy> of course we could just make it include team as well - I'd only want 1 set ever :D
<knome> well we run the competition, we decide the rules :P
<knome> i guess we can see how march goes and if the same person wins again
<elfy> well it's an open field currently :D
<knome> then try to get other people more interested in beating them :P
 * knome looks at the doc
<knome> hmmwait
<elfy> see what happens when an actual real result turns up on blog etc
<knome> that's not here
<knome> there it is..
<elfy> :D
<elfy> oh good god - I see a Pasi peering at me ...
<knome> ;)
<knome> and yeah, i think the contest should include team
<knome> kind of insane not to...
<elfy> I don't agree - and you know why :)
<knome> i love the boolean bit for the team column :D
<elfy> ? 
<knome> 0/1
<elfy> oh so it sorts easy :D
<elfy> yea
<knome> well maybe with the "team person can only win once ever"
<knome> compared to "regular person can only win once per cycle" or so
<elfy> if we include team then we need to do 2 each time imo - team AND user
<knome> well,
<knome> maybe
<knome> or just limit team wins to once ever as i said
<knome> it just feels wrong that jack did 57 tests and doesn't get a sticker
<knome> because he happens to be in the ~xubuntu-team LP team
<elfy> oic
<elfy> so team doesn't include me :(
<knome> well you too
<elfy> ha :)
<knome> but i wanted to make another example :P
<elfy> heh
<elfy> anyway - so reasoning
<elfy> I kind of expect people in team to test - or we're really bad, this was a way to get people outside more involved
<elfy> but I'm happy enough Jack getting a set, and slickymaster next month
<knome> understood :)
<knome> that's a fair argument
<knome> then again
<elfy> as long as we have 2 each time - User and Team
<knome> we're all doing this voluntarily...
<elfy> otherwise - completely pointless and we should stop now imo
<knome> well as i said we could limit team wins to once ever
<knome> eg. once you've won, you're banned from the competition
<knome> in march, april, beta2, final, ww cycle, xx cycle, ...
<knome> with that policy, i really don't think we need to do two winners :)
<knome> if things go on like they are going on now
<elfy> then I refuse to be involved in this 
<knome> just my idea
<elfy> the WHOLE point was to get users involved
<knome> agree
<knome> i guess we need to ask pleia2 how many stickers she has :)
<elfy> pretty sure there's sufficient for this cycle 
<knome> yes, without the doubles for the team
<knome> maybe
<knome> i don't remember exactly
<knome> but then
<elfy> "pleia2 has 20 bundles"
<knome> if we do two sets, user/team, isn't it unfair that people on the team have advantage :P
<knome> and wouldn't that mean elfy wins every time anyway ;D
<elfy> lol
<elfy> I could massage the figures and not only put 50% of mine on the tracker :D
<knome> so a team category, where anybody can win at most once ever?
<elfy> go down as low as 5% or something 
<knome> wouldn't that be almost the same than just order stickers for everybody in the team and get on with it :P
<elfy> knome: lol
<knome> because at some point, you *have* to win
<knome> with 1 test, or sth :P
<knome> because everybody else is disqualified..
<elfy> knome: yea - but who'd want to trundle over the line last at the end next cycle :p
 * knome volunteers
<elfy> too late - you appear to have done 2 :D
<knome> :((
<elfy> anyway ... 
<elfy> I don't mind team included, but then we must have 2 
<elfy> or I do mind
<elfy> bear in mind that when we started thinking of this - I said team not included 
<knome> yes
<elfy> no-one said anything 
<elfy> too late to start now ;)
<knome> i have no arguments against that
<knome> it's mainly that it feels bad for people who did so much more - you, jack and david
<elfy> yea I understand that point for sure 
<elfy> not me - but them anyway 
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> hey everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> i think it's ok that now the same person won the QA incentive twice
<ochosi> but we should make that public (on all channels) and tell people to give him/her more competition
<ochosi> the programme might even benefit from this
<elfy> yes - but no need to send 2 lots of stickers 
<ochosi> sure
<knome> if you want the certificate sent, be in touch with me :)
<knome> i'll be off most of today
<knome> but i'll be around tomorrow
<elfy> I think that we should inform them and everyone else before we do any sending of anything tbh
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> +1 on that
<knome> sure, but also nice to have the cert prepared :)
<elfy> there is that :)
<bluesabre> good morning everyone
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<elfy> hi bluesabre :)
<elfy> oh good lord another one lol ... 
<ochosi> yeah, we might want/need a factoid for that :)
<elfy> like !ffs :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: finish the 4.12PPA already, ppl are getting on our nerves in #xubuntu!
<ochosi> elfy: hehe
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I think I'll upload everything that depends on libxfce4util with a dependency wait on it, then push util to trigger the rebuild
<elfy> yea - good lord bluesabre - did you need sleep or something? 
<bluesabre> elfy: wife's comment last night "holy crap your eyes look black, look at those shadows"
<elfy> I guess we could fiddle with topic for the moment
<bluesabre> seems so :D
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> bluesabre, Noskcaj: in case you were wondering, the 4util soname bump didn't happen for no reason: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4util/commit/configure.ac.in?id=ca7a3720e193e29dbc9f20306149c93e49a81c89
 * elfy has vision of bluesabre as one of those emo weirdos
<bluesabre> ochosi: saw
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> bluesabre: crap, i think i have another patch for greybird...
<ochosi> tiny one-liner, but still
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, I'll upload that one after all of xfce
<bluesabre> :P
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> elfy: at what time are the new dailies built?
<elfy> well ... it appears to be a bit of a movable feast 
<elfy> used to be ~11-12UTC 
<elfy> all I can say at the moment it is before 13:27UTC
<bluesabre> so, it should be safe to start uploading packages that break things in a fresh image until all is uploaded
<elfy> yep - you should be good now till tomorrow
<bluesabre> good deal
<bluesabre> don't update for a few hours
<elfy> I've just going to check a handful of buidlogs 
<elfy> bluesabre: ftr - it 'appears' to build roundabout 10:00UTC
<bluesabre> this first required upload might actually get stuck since it introduces a new package
 * bluesabre watches
 * elfy waits an hour to update and complain 
<bluesabre> wait long please
<bluesabre> gotta rebuild all xfce packages
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> and blueman
<elfy> oh lord - no wonder I was confused - convinced I was running kubuntu :p
<bluesabre> :P
<bluesabre> getting pulled away by all that plasma4 business
<bluesabre> *plasma5
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> I do not seem to be centered on my keyboard
<elfy> I'm having trouble centering on the planet atm :)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe i'll have to tweak the xfwm4 tabwin preview size
<elfy> bluesabre: anyway I'll make sure not to update any 'dubious choices' till the morning 
<ochosi> so gimme an hour or (lunch) to look into that before up'ing greybird
<bluesabre> elfy: thanks
<elfy> unless you actually want me to - then just shout
<bluesabre> ochosi: no hurry to upload that ;)
<bluesabre> once that one lands, going to upload so many things >.<
<elfy> bluesabre: bad man - you answer him in #xubuntu now :D
<bluesabre> lol
<elfy> just give him your twitter link
 * elfy is doing that :D
<elfy> and did :)
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> though will the ppa get all updated stuff in it - just wondering? 
<bluesabre> will eventually get to the xfce-412 ppa
<bluesabre> vivid > xfce-412 ppa for utopic > ppa for trusty > trusty SRUs as needed
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks for the path :)
<elfy> won't affect me of course - but helps to know :)
<elfy> bluesabre: going to be a long day is it ;) 
<bluesabre> since the queue might take a while, each of the new packages were pushed to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging/+packages and are building
<bluesabre> elfy: yes
<bluesabre> :(
<elfy> is it still cold and snowy? 
 * bluesabre wonders if Logan can release libxfce4util
<bluesabre> elfy: slight upgrade, cold and rainy
<ochosi> hmm, so that one's still stuck?
<bluesabre> ochosi: it created a new binary package with the change
<bluesabre> libxfce4util6 > libxfce4util7
<bluesabre> so it goes to NEW
<ochosi> yeah, makes sense
<bluesabre> we have to wait for that to clear before pushing the others, otherwise I'll just have to rebuild everything
<ochosi> the devel related channels are fairly quiet today
<bluesabre> post-b2
<bluesabre> nobody is around
<bluesabre> hoping ScottK shows up and hits the button
<elfy> bluesabre: I'd guess that for sure
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> b1
<bluesabre> w/e :D
<elfy> the B1 not the ScottK that is 
<bluesabre> once it does clear, rebuilds have to go then or the new image will probably fail
<bluesabre> so busy day... eventually
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> bluesabre, elfy: could you try the window previews option in xfwm4-advanced->compositor in alt-tab and tell me what you think about the default size of the previews?
<ochosi> i could specify the size in greybird too
<ochosi> depends on whether we think this is ok
<ochosi> whoops, i bumped our progress quite a bit by linking the 4.12 bugreport to our blueprint :] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-flavor-xubuntu.html
<bluesabre> ochosi: it seems fine to me
<elfy> ochosi: do you mean the preview when alt-tabbing? 
<elfy> if so - looks fine to me 
<ochosi> and, do we want to use that as default
<elfy> I'd say so
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging now has all the changes we'd like to land today
<ochosi> performance wise there seems to be practically no penalty
<ochosi> awesome sauce, bluesabre 
<ochosi> the previews can look a bit bulky
<elfy> ochosi: looks pretty well balanced here for the desktop - smaller I'd be just seeing a square circle, bigger would look too much 
<ochosi> okeydoke, then i won't add any value in greybird
<ochosi> (it's based on the 64px icon size i'm already setting there anyway)
<ochosi> hm isn't this a duplicate? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1426895
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1426895 in exo (Ubuntu) "exo fails to open webbrowser with link as argument" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> yep
<bluesabre> fixed in exo 0.10.3
<bluesabre> (not uploaded yet)
<elfy> bluesabre: you want me to see if it all goes horribly wrong with an update?
<ochosi> i'm upgrading to the staging pkgs now
<ochosi> brb
<elfy> I guess so then :D
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I know you've got other irons in the fire right now, but when you get a chance, can you look at the Appearance and Display doc pages?
<ochosi> bluesabre: could you indeed at the patch to greybird? i don't wanna do any further changes for now
<ochosi> jjfrv8: oh nice! i'll take a quick peek now
<jjfrv8> ochosi, if you can verify that I've got the screenshots looking right, but also I have some questions on the text on the Appearance page.
<elfy> afternoon brainwash :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: you can steal some screenshots from the 4.12 tour for the docs btw ;) (esp themes and icons)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: wrt default fonts, i'm not sure what you're asking me. for fonts there is no diff between gtk2/3
<jjfrv8> I guess I was wondering if I gave correct examples of apps
<ochosi> the default font is used *everywhere*
<ochosi> apart from window decorations
<ochosi> but that's not important/interesting enough to mention there
<jjfrv8> ok
<ochosi> other than that, appearance is good to go from my side
<ochosi> nice work on that!
<ochosi> ok, reviewed display settings as well
<ochosi> i only amended some strings/wordings a little, other than that this one's perfect too!
<ochosi> thanks a lot jjfrv8 
<ochosi> i think we can move that over today or whenever we have the rest of the appearance screenshots
<jjfrv8> welcome. will make the suggested change to the text and finish the screenshots. let you know when ready. :)
<ochosi> awesome!
<ochosi> i'm prepping docs.xfce for the changes as we speak
<ochosi> well "speak"
<bluesabre> ochosi is talking to himself
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you're bored, i guess this is something we want in 15.04 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1307545
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1307545 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Power Manager settings are ignored when closing laptop lid" [Medium,Confirmed]
<pleia2> elfy: re: stickers, I think we agree that team shouldn't be included, they are our stickers to give out and if we want to give them to -team folks completely outside of any competition we can do that too
<pleia2> no need for two classes of winners or such a formal thing here
<elfy> wfm :)
<pleia2> and I had thought we'd do "top tester who hasn't already won this cycle" re: stickers, but I don't have a strong opinion there
<pleia2> I defer to elfy, since I think he knows our testing community best, and what incentivizes them
 * ochosi hopes we'll publish some graphs
 * ochosi loves graphs
<pleia2> :)
<elfy> LOL
<elfy> pleia2: that kind of cuts across one we'd already set up 
<elfy> Tests reported during the whole Vivid Vervet cycle
<pleia2> well we did say in the blog post "A limit of one sticker bundle is available per tester."
<pleia2> so I guess you're saying, it's not implied that we pick a different winner if the top tester already got one?
<pleia2> the same person can keep winning, they just only get one bundle per cycle
<elfy> mmm
<pleia2> and I guess we didn't think through the Whole Cycle one very thoroughly ;)
<elfy> well ... it was kicking about for ages and ages 
<pleia2> yeah, no big deal
<pleia2> it's ok to not be perfect, it's our first try at this :)
<elfy> I'd say that , foo wins, can't win again, bar's next - they can
<elfy> nothing to stop us saying "hey - foo won AGAIN, but they've had stickers and foo came in next - here's some for you"
<slickymaster> hey guys
<pleia2> elfy: yeah, so our criteria for winner should be "top non-team tester who hasn't won yet?"
<elfy> pleia2: imo this is just about trying to up the ante a bit and get more people involved
<elfy> pleia2: yep
<elfy> and hi slickymaster :)
<pleia2> perfect
<bluesabre> ochosi: I think I may have already uploaded that
<bluesabre> comparing the latest commit
<elfy> pleia2: if we want to do something for people from team who do above and beyond that's a different kettle of fish
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh right, nice. subsequent question is whether we want to try to backport that to trusty or not
<elfy> pleia2: also - re polls, have you caught the latest thoughts on that - ie - have a slide on installer about it - then run a whole cycle poll 
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, would probably be a worthwhile effort
<pleia2> elfy: nope, but sounds like a good idea :)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: would mean fiddling with the desktop file and stuff, and wouldn't fix anything for ppl who have already installed 14.04
<elfy> pleia2: knome and slickymaster bullied me into hanging around with them tomorrow night about that :p
<pleia2> elfy: oh, are we shutting down our current poll soon? or is that the poll you had in mind for keeping open for the slideshow?
<bluesabre> ochosi: as with every light-locker fix, requires manual intervention from folks
<elfy> pleia2: and finally ... there's a draft pad for poll #2 
<pleia2> neat
<bluesabre> so we can bet 15% of folks that report and complain won't fix it themselves
<elfy> pleia2: well it appears that poll #1 has slowed right down now numbers wise 
<slickymaster> lol elfy, bullied you?
<elfy> @)
<meetingology> elfy: Error: ")" is not a valid command.
<ochosi> bluesabre: well, soon we won't have any troubles with that anymore (>=15.04)
<elfy> silly meetingology 
<slickymaster> you'll be having a bad time in the playgorund
<elfy> always did ... 
<pleia2> elfy: yeah, it spikes when we social media it, but I haven't in a week or so
<slickymaster> :)
<pleia2> and I think we have enough info anyway
<elfy> pleia2: yep - 350+ is probably about 340+ more than I expected :)
<pleia2> hehe
<elfy> pleia2: personally I would stop #1 now, get #2 ready then run that for a few weeks - then nothing till we release 15.04 with the whole cycle one
<elfy> that *should* be loads of data 
<pleia2> elfy: wfm
<elfy> pleia2: unless it happens before then - I'll have a chat with knome about that lot then :)
<pleia2> when do we need to make the slideshow update?
<elfy> not sure - pretty soon I think 
<elfy> slickymaster: ^^
<pleia2> I guess we can put up a poll page on xubuntu.org for the poll at any time
<elfy> pleia2: unless we don't run #2 now - and keep that for cycle 
<elfy> I'd suspect what we've got so far will be a lot to digest and think about
<pleia2> perhaps, I still don't have a lot of time for this myself
<elfy> I know 
<elfy> hence me helping you ;)
<elfy> well ... you/us :)
<slickymaster> elfy, pleia2, I'd like it to be ready and uploaded this week, so it'd be included in my last translation call I've planned to do tuesday-wednesdat the latest
<jjfrv8> ochosi, you might want to do a final check of Appearance, but I think they should both be ready for copying now.
<elfy> slickymaster: ack
<ochosi> jjfrv8: k, will do that later today (gotta finish up some other stuff now) and then ping you once it's done. thanks again!
<elfy> slickymaster: and how far as it all progressed? 
<slickymaster> not much, tbh
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> It's more of a overall sketch, what we have so far
<elfy> maybe I'll make a start on the new poll then - save some time 
<elfy> at the moment toss up between everything in menu or picking some out :)
<slickymaster> a different one from what is planned to be added to the slideshow elfy?
<elfy> slickymaster: no - *that* one 
<pleia2> elfy: just ping me when we're ready to announce+contact winners for stickers, I'm still pretty buried work-wise but I can get to the post office and print off whatever we need :)
<elfy> pleia2: ok - well I would guess early in the week
<elfy> we need to actually talk to them first :)
 * pleia2 nods
<elfy> they might be 'OH NO YOU CAN'T' :)
<elfy> do we use LP name - real name? etc
<pleia2> yeah
<elfy> I'd say LP name - that's what shows on the tracker etc
<pleia2> I tend to say "whatever they want" :)
<elfy> and then they might be uncontactable via LP :)
<elfy> I guess as QA lead I should make the contact 
<pleia2> anyway, yeah, first step is draft email to send to winners
<pleia2> "at the end of each period and contacted by our marketing lead for shipment details"
<pleia2> doh
<pleia2> but maybe you should contact, then tell them to email me address
<pleia2> since as QA lead, I think it makes them feel more special coming from you :)
<elfy> works for me 
<elfy> I'll do that a bit later today 
<pleia2> thanks
<elfy> ochosi: you happy me putting your name on this as well - as XPL? 
<slickymaster> so elfy, do you want me to postponed my review of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1391636
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1391636 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "1583 Errors in testcase" [Low,Fix committed]
<pleia2> elfy: feel free to Cc: me though, so I can be in the loop
<slickymaster> because of 4.12 release
<ochosi> elfy: sure
<elfy> slickymaster: ha - you caught up with me before I caught up with you :)
<elfy> pleia2: ack
<slickymaster> elfy, I'll put it on hang until you say I can do it
<elfy> slickymaster: I checked earlier today - it's good as it is - no updates 
<slickymaster> yeah? ok, I'll go ahead then
<elfy> slickymaster: ty :)
<slickymaster> np
<elfy> pleia2: sent 
<pleia2> elfy: thanks
<slickymaster> elfy, https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1391636/+merge/245409
<slickymaster> all set
<elfy> ty slickymaster 
<slickymaster> np :)
<elfy> do we need to worry that xfce4-session is an upstart session service ?
 * ochosi has no idea
<ochosi> elfy: since you're the expert on these bugs... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1426931
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1426931 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "Firefox does not work with exo-open anymore" [Undecided,New]
<elfy> ochosi:  thanks then :p
<elfy> duped it 
<drc> This where I go to ask about 15.04B1's inability to respect the "Hide frame of windows when maximized" being unchecked?
<holstein> you mean, the decorations?
<holstein> im not sure that that is an expectation.. i think some browsers do that.. but i typically see the decorations on maximized windows in most OS's.. are you just wanting a place to set that?
<drc> No, the maximized window's frame and titlebar being hidden behind the top panel.
<drc> and its not just FF, it's all windows.
<holstein> did you change the panel settings? there are ways to make that happen with the panel settings.. i used to do that on netbooks intentionally to save space
<drc> Looked, but couldn't find what I (think) I was looking for.  With versions before 15.04B1, this was set in Windows Managers Tweaks>Accessability>Hide Frame of windows when maximized (checked=on, unchecked=off)
<elfy> drc I just tried that, working here - but I've got the staging ppa 
<holstein> could be something in the PPA i suppose addressing an issue
<elfy> yea possibly, booting a vm
<holstein> anyways, i would just poke around a bit, drc , and see if you can get someone to verify it on another machine..
<drc> Would a Live CD work?  All the other boxen here are (shudder) Win8/10 machines :)
<elfy> drc: no idea till I try
<drc> Nevermind, I'll just boot it and see :)
<elfy> oic - sorry - hang on a moment drc 
<drc> ok
<elfy> let me see if I can verify what you see 
<drc> BTW the new intell-hide is turned off
<elfy> yea I had to do that and this machine and move panel to top and expand it :p
<elfy> drc: is this with it enabled?
<drc> no, off
<elfy> drc: http://i.imgur.com/kHeNjp1.png
<drc> With it on, it doesn't appear to happen
<elfy> if it's on and I don't disable hid title I lose title 
<drc> And "always" the window maximizes, but then the panel is activated it covers the title bar/buttons of the window
<drc> oh yeah FF and click url's has a problem right?
<drc> elfy: Not sure what the image is supposed to show?  That things work fine for you or not :)
<elfy> drc :)
<elfy> that's what I see - is that expected? don't use it here 
<drc> Let me try some things here...
<elfy> drc: ff and url's is bug 1426931
<ubottu> bug 1425972 in exo (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1426931 Firefox no longer supports -remote parameter" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425972
<elfy> oh idiot elfy
<elfy> bug 1425972
<ubottu> bug 1425972 in exo (Ubuntu) "Firefox no longer supports -remote parameter" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425972
<elfy> fixable 
<drc> Didn't there used to be an ability to <allow> the panel cover the top of the window or not...can't find it now?
<ochosi> drc: "don't reserve space on borders"
<drc> I don't think that was it...it was more explicit than that.
<drc> woah....
<drc> But that solves my problem.
<ochosi> bbl
<drc> click "Don't reserve space..." (the default?  I don't remember clicking this) and the problem manifiests itself,  Unclick and it goes away.
<drc> If it being clicked is not the default, I apologize, I just don't remember clicking it.
<drc> Just checked the Live CD, it's <not> checked.  I must have done it myself sometime w/o realizing it and didn't recognize the problem when it presented itself.  Mea culpa.
<elfy> such is life :)
<drc> Yeah, but some of us are more afflicted than others....
<drc> BTW, looks like a pretty nice job, for a Beta1.
<Noskcaj> elfy, That exo bug is fixed in 0.10.3
<brainvvash> Noskcaj, do we need to SRU it for 14.04/14.10?
<Noskcaj> brainvvash, Couldn't hurt. I'd personally only go to 14.04
<elfy> Noskcaj: yea - I got told 
<drc> Just ran inxi -F on a newly installed and updated 15.04B1...it says XFCE 4.12?
<drc> That was quick work :)
<knome> pleia2, slideshow change before UI freeze, which is march 12
<knome> pleia2, well, the content practically march 19 (docstringfreeze)
<sidi> hi pleia2, can i ask you your email @ please? im talking to the UNIX stickers people for Xfce and would like to talk to you and knome about your experience with them
<knome> pleia2, btw, we are now mentioning unixstickers on our frontpage, did they promise more good for us if we did that? :P
<knome> pleia2, or what were their proposal about that?
<ochosi> bluesabre: i presume you haven't found anybody yet for 4util
<bluesabre> ochosi: correctamundo
<ochosi> well, to the worst i can ping around tomorrow
 * bluesabre expects to package a few things in the morning
<elfy> pleia2: I see I successfully sent that from the wrong address - but at least got a reply :)
<pleia2> sidi: my email address? can use lyz@ubuntu.com
<pleia2> knome: it's all kind of casual, there's no firm agreement if we do X we get Y
<pleia2> elfy: hah, yeah
<sidi> pleia2, thanks!
<pleia2> elfy: so did we want a winner for dailies AND beta 1?
<knome> pleia2, ok, so would they consider the current coverage something that would give us more of Y, whatever Y was
<pleia2> knome: probably, but I've been approaching it on a case by case basis, I figure we chat with them every year or so about what we need and what they're able to send
<knome> pleia2, ok, just wondering...
<knome> maybe we should give them a prod, just in case ;)
<pleia2> sure, I'll drop them a note
<knome> thanks
<knome> feel free to CC me in case they want to communicate more
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-29
<knome> writing some at http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-cloud
<knome> hai flocculant_ 
<flocculant_> :)
<knome> flexiondotorg, i just checked the download page of ubuntu-pi-flavour-maker.org... and you're using the old (pre-2012) xubuntu logo
<flexiondotorg> Oh, link to correct logo/
<flexiondotorg> ?
<flexiondotorg> svg ideally.
<knome> well, it's fairly easy to find that on our website, but here's what you want: http://static.xubuntu.org/xubuntu_brand/Icon/SVG/xubuntu_icon.svg
<flexiondotorg> Got it.
<flocculant_> knome: if google play will only play itunes of your own - or you have to pay monthly - should we be even mentioning it
<knome> i don't know google play
<flocculant_> well I only know https://play.google.com/music/listen#/sulp
<knome> we should ask pleia2 about it ;)
<knome> but i feel like we should probably mention it even if it is just subscription-based
<knome> if somebody in the team uses it, it's good enough for them (and likely worth the money)
<flocculant_> I guess
<knome> but if the collection is available for subscription only, we totally need to be clear about that
<knome> i wouldn't exactly recommend an app that plays ads either
<knome> ...unless it's fair considering what you get in exchange
<flocculant_> well no - I think we could definitely agree on those points :D
<knome> or unless it can be fair from your point of view
<knome> at least we're giving non-cloud options too ;)
<flocculant_> yep
<knome> everything has its price
<flocculant_> I don't know that we should be going here though tbh
<flocculant_> we're supposed to be doing a 'what people use as media managers' 
<knome> sure
<knome> but since that would be a short article series, i think it's a good idea to show the other options too
<flocculant_> just because some of us don't - doesn't mean we should do 'what people use as media managers - but because some don't we're adding these things as well' 
<knome> this is not "these are the recommended ones" :)
<knome> lol
<knome> no, not really
<flocculant_> yea yea ofc it's not :)
<knome> we probably want to edit the final article about the cloud services to not look so "selling"
<flocculant_> anyway - going way off the topic - mostly just concerned about pointing at things if the only way it's any 'good' is with Â£'s :)
<knome> and i was thining some comments from the team too
<flocculant_> well
<flocculant_> if we're gonig to add these things into the pot - then the people who use them should do what the rest of us have imho
<knome> "Pasi: While I listen to local songs with gmusicbrowser most of the time, I occasionally listen to a few tracks on Spotify. For that purpose, the web interface is good enough."
<flocculant_> then the things like cost will be in their post
<knome> but most of the questions aren't very appropriate :D
<flocculant_> I'm sure that people are capable of dealing with that :)
<knome> haha
<knome> well
<knome> i just don't think we can warrant one article per cloud service
<knome> for the reasons we talked a minute ago
<flocculant_> eg I hate media managers - so pfft to those questions - I use foo because
<knome> ads and subscriptions
<knome> yeah, we should do a "summary" section
<knome> for reasons why they use cloud things
<knome> it's all very organic
<flocculant_> nope - one article on them all works
<knome> that's why i'm asking for feedback from them now so we can get the train moving
<flocculant_> ^^ is reply to "don't think we can warrant one article ..."
<knome> yep
<knome> the desktop integration is something we should focus on more than the plans
<flocculant_> waiting to read Unit193's on how he listens to music so he doesn't have to get involved with media managers :D
<knome> hah
<knome> yeah
<knome> "here's the weirdo of the team, using a kernel module to playback music"
<flocculant_> ha ha ha 
<flocculant_> well
<knome> "*Unit193 waves*"
<flocculant_> "here's one of the weirdo's in the team, using a kernel module to playback music"
<knome> hah
<flocculant_> mmm
<knome> "he also wears a tinfoil hat"
<knome> "with pigtails"
<flocculant_> didn't actually think about desktop integration of what people (I) use 
<knome> yeah, i guess we should talk about that on the local managers too
<knome> but also on the cloud players, because it's less obvious there
<flocculant_> yep - can control clementine from the indicator just the same 
<knome> yes, gmb has that support too
<flocculant_> yea 
<knome> for the "other players" article, what do we want to cover?
<knome> do we limit to GTK?
<flocculant_> All servers unavailable due to DNS problems ... that'll be why I lost connection then ...
<knome> hah
<flocculant_> I thought it was resolvconf upgrade :p 
<knome> that's why i have a line for my IRC host in /etc/hosts :D :D
<flocculant_> I hate upgrading things I'm not sure about when things stop working :D
<flocculant_> s/hate/hate having had
<knome> a list of some managers follows
<knome> banshee
<knome> exaile
<knome> quod libet
<knome> rhythmbox
<knome> songbird
<knome> amarok
<knome> xmms :P
<knome> was looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_audio_software
<knome> s/songbird/nightingale/
<flocculant_> Requesting has been temporarily HALTED. This will resume in: 1d 12h 40m - reason: Domain issues, even though it was paid for last week. This has to be sorted.
<flocculant_> oh great ... 
 * knome facepalms
<knome> also, we should briefly mention apps that are figured out to have a good UX when listening to streams
<flocculant_> really should just not bother with this bouncer stuff
<flocculant_> nightingale doesn't appear to work btw - looked a short while ago, the ppa's arealmost 4 months since something failed to build
<knome> aha
<Unit193> Technically I cocmpiled it into a kernel module. >_>
<flocculant> davmor2: last week while I head stuck well and truly in beta 1 were you in and out of -release talking about upgrades ?
<flocculant> to 16.04 I assumed 
<davmor2> flocculant: 14.04 to 16.04 
<flocculant> aah good - was it failing? 
<davmor2> flocculant: yes repeatedly
 * flocculant hopes it's not just us :)
<flocculant> cool - doesn't even start for us - some unath'd package issue and reverts
<davmor2> yeap that is the new one
<flocculant> probably no point in carrying on then - I wanted to know where *we* stood
<davmor2> flocculant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1551198
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1551198 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "14.04â16.04 upgrade failed" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> bug 1550741
<ubottu> bug 1550741 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Upgrade failed - unathenticated package" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550741
<davmor2> there's another one too if it gets passed that point
<flocculant> davmor2: which one do you want to be the dupe :D
<flocculant> I'd seen one a couple of weeks ago 
<davmor2> flocculant: leave them for cyphermox the might be different but with the same error
<flocculant> okey doke
<flocculant> libutempter issue last time
<cyphermox> actually aren't these two the same error with module-init-tools?
<davmor2> flocculant: mod-init-tools I think was mine
<flocculant> that was this weekend for us - your bug and mine - same thing 
<flocculant> screenshots are spookily similar too :D
<flocculant> oh no they aren't - I didn't do one lol
<flocculant> 2016-02-29 11:37:13,775 ERROR Unauthenticated packages found: 'module-init-tools' from you and 2016-02-27 13:17:44,711 ERROR Unauthenticated packages found: 'module-init-tools' from me
<flocculant> I won't dupe them - but I'd be surprised if they aren't
<knome> Unit193, whatever it is you are actually using, please sign up for writing an article
<Unit193> bluesabre: Because "yey one change per commit": https://bitbucket.org/xubuntu/xfdashboard/commits/cdf8d7727a115928afbffed08e4fc523859bbfa3 (for your review, if you'd like.)
<Unit193> Also, time to reset the counter for how many times I've made the 'xfdasboard' typo.
<Unit193> flocculant: And if you want to poke it, to make sure I didn't break it, that'd be good too.
<Unit193> There's a new -plugins package, should install since it's in recommends.
<flocculant> Unit193: ok - it'll show up shortly then :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: fyi - some activity in -desktop re g-s with robert ancell tonight
<Unit193> Saw updates scroll past Debian too, think it's in decent shape there.  Didn't actually check of course though. >_>
<flocculant> was an update this afternoon - categories gone now
<slickymaster> as far as I understood your intention is to have a slide for the wallpaper contest, right?
<slickymaster> knome ^^
<knome> slickymaster, that was discussed 2 years ago and some drafts were made even
<slickymaster> yeah, I remember
<slickymaster> just enlighten me something
<knome> yes?
<slickymaster> are you talking about another slide, or the replacment of one of the existing ones, knome?
<knome> another slide
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> though i think we should probably try to rework most of the slides
<knome> they are old by now and everybody have seen them
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> as i said the last time, one option is to try to poke people at our website more
<knome> and with that, have less content on the slideshow
<slickymaster> yeah, I saw your "look we have a website, look" :P
<knome> and less maintaining
<slickymaster> so your idea is to withdraw content from the slides and use the slides to point ant various website content?
<slickymaster> s/ant/at
<slickymaster> knome ^
<knome> not completely necessary
<knome> and that's just one of the paths we can take
<knome> i'm happy to hear all ideas
<knome> (and it's not only me who makes the decision anyway, this concerns the whole team)
<slickymaster> currently we have 6 slides, if I'm not mistaken
<knome> sth like that
<slickymaster> I wouldn't mind focusing on the website, but that will leave us with a installer empty of content
<knome> the question i have is does anybody read the content anyway
<slickymaster> or at least just with graphical content with links to the website, which people might, or not, even follow
<slickymaster> fair point
<knome> also, we've been focusing on new features before
<knome> nothing on the slideshow isn't new any more
<knome> unless you count the changes made to the "preinstalled apps" slide
<slickymaster> for a long time nor, it isn't
<slickymaster> so we're speaking of a major revamp
<knome> yeah
<knome> we should do one every 2 years
<slickymaster> going to add this to the discussion items for the meeting
<knome> yeah
<slickymaster> before starting anyhting, I agree with you, it concerns the all team
<slickymaster> one other thing knome, is https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604 temporary?
<slickymaster> or is it going to be final landing place for the installer?
<knome> i thought we could prepare the stuff there, then do one push to main
<slickymaster> did you see my ping re our mails to the other flavors?
<knome> which one of them?
<slickymaster> no one said anything
<knome> yeah, i noticed
<knome> i think this is poop :P
<knome> anyway
<knome> i know i've said this before
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> but maybe postpone one more cycle
<slickymaster> yeah, you did
<knome> now is LTS, i don't want to mess it up
<knome> let's do this as always, then change
<knome> or just leave it
 * knome shrugs
<knome> the most important thing is that we get uploads done when we need
<slickymaster> I'll wait a couple of weeks before postponing it
<slickymaster> who knows
<knome> if there are people who are active and will do those uploads, it's not a problem
<slickymaster> right 
<knome> at least we should figure out what we want to do our slideshow first :P
<knome> i'm listening! :P
<slickymaster> added it to the meeting
<slickymaster> tbh I don't dislike the idea of a pure graphical slideshow with links to content outside of it
<knome> mhm
<slickymaster> knome, any reason why https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/upgrade/+merge/287403 is pending?
<slickymaster> did you forget it?
<slickymaster> or do you want me to review it?
<knome> i'm lazy?
<slickymaster> that's not it Ã·P
<knome> s/it's/its/
<knome> s/Upgrade(Image)/Upgrade (Image)/
<slickymaster> so, does that mean that you're reviewing it or you just pointing me at it?
<knome> i can do it later
<slickymaster> ok, I'll go and take care of the gmb references
<knome> mhm
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> merge done
<slickymaster> thanks knome 
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hallo bluesabre 
<bluesabre> heyo knome
<bluesabre> knome: thinking of reworking the slideshow then?
<knome> yep, sth new for the LTS
<slickymaster> yes 
<bluesabre> sounds like fun
<bluesabre> let me know if you need any feedback etc
 * knome lets bluesabre know
<slickymaster> I added to the meeying bluesabre 
 * knome waits for feedback
<slickymaster> meeting
<bluesabre> slickymaster: can't make it to the meeting
<slickymaster> no problem we'll think of ways of getting you on board ;)
<bluesabre> knome: the menulibre screenshot that is on the 15.10 slideshow is of an old version of menulibre
<bluesabre> noticed that the other day
<knome> just assign all work to bluesabre 
<bluesabre> :D
<slickymaster> there's one right there :D
<bluesabre> nooooooo
<bluesabre> it won't get done if you do that
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> bluesabre, how do you feel about the slide generally?
<knome> is it still current and useful enough?
<bluesabre> knome: I don't have the branch on my machine currently, and would take some time for me to fire up a vm
<bluesabre> knome: I'll work on feedback tonight and post it here
<knome> bluesabre, cheerio
<bluesabre> bbabl
<knome> pleia2, any ideas from you?
<pleia2> drat, I made my presence known
<pleia2> tl;dr
<knome> yeah...
<knome> pleia2, ideas for improving the installer slideshow?
<pleia2> I should look at it some time
<knome> we'll talk about it on the meeting on thu
<pleia2> ok, I'll make some time prior to that then to do some iso tests AND have a look
<knome> :))
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-01
<Drroot> Hello
<knome> 'lo
<Drroot> 16.04 relealse?
<knome> that is not even a question
<Drroot> New versions of Ubuntu come or not?
<knome> yes, there will be a 16.04 release.
<knome> for both ubuntu and xubuntu
<Drroot> link?
<Drroot> Stable or test?
<pleia2> link for what?
<pleia2> the release schedule is here, it's not out yet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
<knome> Drroot, what's your native language?
<Drroot> im persian :D
<knome> !farsi | Drroot 
<ubottu> Drroot: #ubuntu-ir baraye Farsi zabanan mibashad ke channele rasmie goroohe Iran-ie ubuntu ast. #ubuntu-ir  Ø¨Ø±Ø§Û ÙØ§Ø±Ø³Û Ø²Ø¨Ø§ÙØ§Ù ÙÛâØ¨Ø§Ø´Ø¯ Ú©Ù Ú©Ø§ÙØ§Ù Ø±Ø³ÙÛ Ú¯Ø±ÙÙ Ø§ÛØ±Ø§ÙÛ Ø§ÙØ¨ÙÙØªÙ Ø§Ø³Øª.
<knome> Drroot, would that help?
<Drroot> @ubottu tnx !
<meetingology> Drroot: Error: "ubottu" is not a valid command.
<Drroot> How to change the color of all XUbuntu Fonts? 
<knome> Drroot, this is the developer channel for xubuntu, you should ask #xubuntu (or if you think english might be too hard for you, the farsi channel where they should be able to help you with xubuntu as well)
<flocculant> bluesabre: update to appstream this morning - https://launchpadlibrarian.net/244514979/Screenshot_2016-03-01_07-54-07.png
<bluesabre> flocculant: :o
<bluesabre> knome, slickymaster: Slide feedback...
<bluesabre> Slide 1. Welcome to Xubuntu: Since we have Ubuntu, Xfce, and Xubuntu on there, maybe we could have links or popovers with descriptions on hover?
<bluesabre> Slide 2. Ready to go! I think the current app list is fine. Not really sure if anything can be improved here.
<bluesabre> Slide 3. Personalize your computer: Currently features mugshot, maybe we can do something else here? Also, very similar to slide 5 "Make the desktop your own"
<bluesabre> Slide 4. The Xubuntu desktop: Shows info about the panel. This one is fine. If we want to have a little version branding, we could override the time displayed to be release version (21 Apr, 16:04)
<bluesabre> Slide 5. Make the desktop your own: Shows menulibre. Outdated screenshot. Maybe time to feature a different app now?
<bluesabre> Slide 6. Help & Support... A-OK
<bluesabre> Slide 7. Thank you! All good here, I like the animal feature
<bluesabre> Other thoughts: For slides with multiple apps, we could do a mini fade slideshow of the apps mentioned. I really like the the popovers that are displayed on the bottom when hovering. Maybe we could have a slide on contributing?
<flocculant> bluesabre: so at least gs is working now - just not showing featured and editors picks 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yes. Managed to list uninstalled apps, install an app, launch it, and remove it
<bluesabre> progress :)
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> I noticed that the remove option was only available if I tried to install something already installed
<bluesabre> sounds right
<knome> bluesabre, thanks
<knome> bluesabre, actually re: menulibre and mugshot, it might be time to throw them as articles on the website; we even have this article series "the small details" planned, those would be great there
<knome> bluesabre, and for the mini fade slideshow, yeah, or even make a slide slideshow to give the user the feeling that we are actually progressing all the time
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1604-slideshow
<knome> copied bluesabre's comments over already
<knome> bluesabre, maybe you want to copy-paste the lines there again so we can see it on your own color :P
<knome> bbabl
<flocculant> evening krytarik 
<knome> he flocculant 
<flocculant> he knome 
<flocculant> good job there's no-one nicked man
<knome> ;P
<knome> flocculant, you might want to look at the recent (1min) revision of https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604
<knome> for something - at least - new
<knome> the order appears to be bollock
<knome> +s
<knome> but nvm that
<knome> just look at it! 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> (and i know some slides are borked)
<flocculant> I hope you're teaching please to the junior ;)
<knome> please? what's that? unheard concept to me..
<flocculant> like the support slide 
<knome> yeah, looking for more airyness there
<knome> we don't need it to be cramped full of information
<flocculant> I still think we could contribute slide 
<knome> yeah
<knome> we probably should look at the content for the current ones too
<knome> again, i'm "mostly" interested in the looks
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> certainly need to look at content now there are 2 gone
<flocculant> makes what's left look a bit like an afterthought
<knome> sure
<knome> and i don't disagree with a full slide dedicated to contribution
<Nairwolf> hi everyone ;) Flocculant, I didn't have time to test upgrade yet, I should be able to do it tomorrow, I think
<flocculant> Nairwolf: thanks for thinking of it - though I've called a halt to upgrade testing atm 
<Nairwolf> oh, ok
<Nairwolf> as you want
<flocculant> it'll be back :)
<knome> ...and you will know when as you follow the devel mailing list
<knome> ...right?
<flocculant> knome: any idea why changes to docs bp don't get notified as a mail? 
<knome> nope
<Nairwolf> knome: yes, I'm following xubuntu-devel ;)
<knome> flocculant, hmm, maybe; you aren't a member of the assignee team
<knome> flocculant, you can subscribe from the blueprint page though
<flocculant> ?
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-x-docs
<flocculant> I don't subscribe to any of them - I get mails about changes to all the other ones
<knome> even dev?
<knome> and art?
<flocculant> not that one
<knome> see, either you are the drafter or the assignee (or part of the team that's the assignee) for the rest of them
<flocculant> or that - but then I never expect to see anything from -art 
<flocculant> oh ok 
<knome> i would think that is it..
<flocculant> I guess so
<flocculant> I assume you saw I added pdf's then :D
<knome> i guess
<flocculant> that's not something you can guess - you did or didn't :p
<flocculant> I guess
<knome> i guess you're right
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> flocculant, another fancy push :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> slickymaster, ping me if you happen to be around at some point.
<slickymaster> right here, knome 
<knome> good good
<knome> slickymaster, check out this: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604
<slickymaster> branching it, knome 
<slickymaster> knome, the Ubuntu, Xfce and Xubuntu icons are too big and go off the slide frame
<knome> sigh
<knome> just dismiss *obvious* breakage
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> there's many nice new things there, focus on them :P
<slickymaster> I know, I'll get there
<slickymaster> continuing
<slickymaster> why not chnage the italic in 'Try Xubuntu' in the first slide for bold
<slickymaster> ?
<knome> well, we can do that...
<slickymaster> it doesn't 'feel' right, whne reading the setence
<slickymaster> * when
 * knome shrugs
<knome> if you aren't running with that mode, bold might feel weird
<knome> but please go on :P
<slickymaster> third slide
<slickymaster> is that horizontal scrool going to do something?
<slickymaster> the one in the top
<knome> i don't have a horizontal scrollbar...
<knome> (or in other words, no, but let's try to make sure it doesn't appear)
<slickymaster> Help & Support slide
<slickymaster> what do you think about placing the 'Other resources' section right aligned?
<knome> maybe.
<knome> but you need to see the next slide to appreciate the empty space
<slickymaster> ah
<slickymaster> you're right
<slickymaster> the best one so far, IMO
<knome> mhm
<slickymaster> love this one
<knome> of course, it has the most effects and graphic stuff :P
<slickymaster> but that's what catches people's attention
<knome> yep, of course
<slickymaster> Like the graphical aspect of the following one
<knome> good
<knome> that slide probably still needs something
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> but not text
<knome> depends on the text, but not much at least
<slickymaster> is it possible to have some sort of popups when hovering the possible ways to contribute?
<slickymaster> artwork, documentation, testing
<knome> yeah, that's possible
<slickymaster> that could be a possibility
<knome> though we have to take the amount of time the slide is shown by default into account
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> one thing that would be really cool IMO on that page was some photos of the team
<knome> but unfortunately those are few and far between
<slickymaster> what type of photos?
<knome> and privacy issues and more
<knome> "what type of photos?", asks he knowingly
<slickymaster> the last one could also get something extra
<slickymaster> :)
<knome> yes, the xenial
<slickymaster> that's it
<knome> probably full height
<knome> i mean, taking the whole slide
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> and align the text to the left side
<knome> for the apps slide
<knome> i was thinking showing bigger app icons
<slickymaster> in the second slide?
<knome> then the app names/descriptions could fade in
<knome> yeah
<slickymaster> I like that option
<knome> or the images could also fade in
<knome> quickly
<slickymaster> the fade in
<knome> not all at the same time, but in a similar fashion as the bubbles on the irc slide
<knome> but even faster
<slickymaster> I think we've talked about that 2 releases ago
<knome> maybe
<knome> so for the first slide
<knome> now that you've seen the rest
<knome> do you have some ideas?
<slickymaster> what about mentioning the contributor docs?
<knome> yeah, can do that
<slickymaster> before startiong over slide by slid
<slickymaster> +e
<slickymaster> maybe you cab juggle it in the fourth slide
<slickymaster> ok, so form the start
<slickymaster> first slide
<knome> to the contribution slide "Once you are done figuring out what you want to help with, the *Contributor Documentation* can help you get started."
<slickymaster> yes
<slickymaster> but let's start from the beginning
<knome> yeah
<knome> we could do something there along the lines of the mouse later
<slickymaster> I'd change the first setence
<knome> eg. something spanning those two slides
<knome> i've been thinking about some kind of arrow, but haven't figured out what would be nice yet
<slickymaster> to "Congratulations for choosing to install Xu....
<slickymaster> wait, what do you mean by spanning those two slides?
<knome> see the support slides
<knome> and the mouse at the bottom
<knome> guess you missed that cool feature there :P
<slickymaster> are you referring to the arrows in the bottom right to navigate back and forth?
<knome> no
<knome> the mouse art
<knome> on the first slide you see the tail
<slickymaster> ah, now I see it
<knome> and on the second slide you see the nose
<knome> yeah, isn't it nice :P
<slickymaster> yes it is
<knome> ties the two slides together nicely
<slickymaster> exactly
<knome> unless your eyes are made out of wood
<slickymaster> damn your designer eyes
<knome> haha
<knome> not designer eyes
<knome> just eyes with any sight left
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> yeah, the first three slides lack that
<knome> yep
<knome> and tbh, the panel slide, while it's useful, is not really working like that
<slickymaster> what is escaping you?
<knome> and i'm not referring the title being at the bottom
<knome> i kind of like that we're challenging the user
<knome> because otherwise it's a boring slideshow
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> doesn't the slide feel a bit too cramped?
<knome> maybe it's something related to the black boxes
<slickymaster> well, I wouldn't go so far
<slickymaster> but it kind of diverges from the rest in some aspects
<knome> yes
<knome> it *is* cramped compared to the rest :P
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> alright, cramped
<slickymaster> but let's get back to the first one
<knome> sure
<knome> i'm working on the app slide as we speak
<slickymaster> I think the icons are too big
<knome> and the artwork has been used since 2012
<slickymaster> and I'm not talking about breakage
<knome> which is why i didn't bother aligning it
<slickymaster> but their size is way to big
<knome> i think it's "OK" informative, but otoh, it doesn't tell too much
<slickymaster> lost you now
<slickymaster> are talking about the text in the first slide?
<knome> the artwork
<knome> i mean it does kind of explain what xubuntu is
<knome> in a very black and white way, but still
<slickymaster> ah, that's what I was also talking about
<knome> i know :P
<knome> that's why i also talked about it...
<slickymaster> I agree with you
<knome> so it's not essential to have it
<slickymaster> but that's has been the universal xubuntu equation since I remember
<knome> but the reason why it is there is because we haven't come up with a better alternative
<knome> except if you interpret it literally, it's wrong
<knome> (but let's not go into that discussion...)
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> mostly because we can't explain what xubuntu is in one slide
<knome> especially not the one that starts the slideshow
<slickymaster> is it (javascript speaking) possible to have some type of animation with those icons?
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> why not try that
<knome> but please remember we are doing animation with icons on the next slide
<slickymaster> my idea is that instead of three static icons we could place that equation animated
<slickymaster> the ubuntu and xfce icons interacting to produce the xubuntu icon
<knome> i was thinking about that
<knome> but you know what i ended up thinking
<knome> it would look like the circle of friends enclosed and decapitated the mouse
<knome> NOT
<knome> THAT
<slickymaster> it doesn't have to be nothing too fancy, just give it some 
<slickymaster> ahahahaha
<slickymaster> sort of motion
<knome> you have to convince me more before i try something like that :P
<slickymaster> well, we're trying to detach ourselves from our previous concept of slideshows
<knome> yes
<knome> so why not get rid of the U+X=XU
<slickymaster> and we can achive that just with the three icons
<knome> but then we are saying the same thing, in a not so clear way
<slickymaster> it doesn't have to be a moving Ubu icon interacting with a xfce icon to produce a xub icon
<knome> i understand what you are saying
<knome> but i'm not convinced :P
<slickymaster> we can, for example have a endeless circular motion between the first two with the third in the middle
<knome> :D
<slickymaster> like two electrons gravitating it's nucleuos
<knome> that would make flocculant puke
<slickymaster> ahahhaha
<slickymaster> most probably
<slickymaster> but you get what I mean
<slickymaster> it doesn't have to be an animated equiation
<slickymaster> * equation
<knome> lol
<knome> yeah
<knome> the animation can be something more subtlr
<knome> subtle
<slickymaster> exactly
<knome> or it can even be something like the mouse
<knome> that kind of doesn't have anything to do with the content
<slickymaster> exactly, but it's still there
<bluesabre> evennnnning
<slickymaster> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster
<slickymaster> haven't yet saw your suggestions
<knome> slickymaster, they are in the pad
<slickymaster> url, pretty please
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1604-slideshow
<bluesabre> was just about to paste that
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-02
<knome> toooo slooooow
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> the slowness never stops
<knome> true
<slickymaster> knome, bluesabre, added my comments to the pad
<bluesabre> slickymaster: cool, going through and commenting more where appropriate
<slickymaster> oki doke bluesabre 
<knome> new revision pushed
<slickymaster> give me a sec knome 
<slickymaster> to have a smoke
<knome> hahah
<knome> bluesabre, you should get it too, i think i just proved you wrong
<knome> re: "Not really sure if anything can be improved here."
<bluesabre> knome: :D cloning
<knome> it's ever so slight change, but i think it improves the slide a lot
 * slickymaster opt for a pear instead of smoking
<slickymaster> WAY MUCH BETTER knome 
<knome> haha
<slickymaster> as far as I'm concerned the second one is done :)
<bluesabre> so. many. revisions.
<knome> maybe some slight tweaks, but yeah
<slickymaster> did you see my comments in the pad, knome?
<knome> not yet
<slickymaster> in particular the one reagrding the Xubuntu >Desktop slide
<knome> hmh, not sure
<slickymaster> too many animation?
<knome> that might be too busy, and i'm not sure if the user actually needs to see the panel zoomed
<slickymaster> I do see your point knome, but as it is that slide is too much of a wall of text
<knome> then do something else with it
<bluesabre> knome: ahhhh, that's so fancy with the animations
<knome> bluesabre, isn't it
 * bluesabre approves
<knome> the thing i'll do after i've landed all these animations
<knome> is look through the slideshow
<knome> and remove half
<knome> ;P
<bluesabre> :D
<slickymaster> I'd lose those two paragraphs in the 'Xubuntu Desktop' knome 
<knome> then it's a very empty slide
<slickymaster> I'd prefer to see there a screenshot of a desktop than some more text
<knome> pushed a new revision
<knome> is the animation for the contribute slide too cheesy?
<slickymaster> lol rolling a cigarette
<knome> hah
<knome> there goes the "pear instead of a cig" one
<slickymaster> already ate the pear that's why
<knome> well yeah..
<bluesabre> knome: yes, that's too cheesy
 * bluesabre is reminded of early powerpoint presentations
<knome> yeah
<knome> :D
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> OpenDocument presentations
<knome> haha
<knome> no, you DID mean powerpoint presentations
<knome> in 1990's
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> :|
<knome> that slide needs a bit of something though
<knome> hey jjfrv8 :)
<jjfrv8> hi, knome
<bluesabre> knome: maybe blueprinty something or other
<slickymaster> hey jjfrv8, 
<knome> meh
 * bluesabre shrugs
<jjfrv8> hey, slicky
<knome> slickymaster, i tried the contribute slide with the contributor docs link, but it became too full
<knome> especially as we need to make sure translations fit too
<bluesabre> knome: we could use shortlinks... does ubuntu have a url shortener?
<slickymaster> I don't like this version of that slide knome 
<knome> bluesabre, of course i hid the url itself in a link text :P
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> have you considered just showing links and dropping all other text :D
<knome> yes
<knome> i have...
<bluesabre> ah
<slickymaster> bluesabre -> https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/precise/libwww-shorten-perl/
<knome> slickymaster, i think he meant ubuntu.com url
<knome> and yeah, there is one actually, but it's a bit hidden..
<slickymaster> oh
<knome> well it's actually ubottu.com and also not so secret that one wouldn't be on our topic :P
<slickymaster> knome, you have to rollback the contribute slide to the previous version
<knome> i did that already
<slickymaster> great
<slickymaster> so are there any other options to place the contributor docs links?
<Unit193> knome: And all over factoids.
 * bluesabre is not so observant it seems
<Unit193> I put it there. >_>
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> slickymaster, i don't think so (at least not another slide)
<knome> slickymaster, that said, we should make it's more visible on the website than it's now
<knome> (there is practically no link there from any "landing" page...)
<slickymaster> yeaps, another slide isn't a good option
 * knome goes edit the website meanwhile
<knome> last revision for today
<knome> there's this and that cleanup
<knome> and all slides should have the likely final layouts now, without the extra artwork/effects
 * slickymaster checks it before going to bed
<knome> bluesabre, i agree with the customization slide, but what could it be? if it's not something specific, then it's boring general blabber
<knome> bluesabre, though we can tweak the slide nicely, eg. change the background color to pink while on that slide
<bluesabre> knome: I'm not sure
<knome> think about it :)
<knome> i'll do that too while ehmm.. sleeping
<slickymaster> I'm just fighting the Xubuntu Desktop slide
<slickymaster> other than that, I like the overall outcome of the installer
<slickymaster> anyway, bed time for me. Early morning in a few hours
<slickymaster> maÃ±ana all
<knome> sleep tight
<knome> nighty! -->
<flocculant> lots of words
 * flocculant looks at the pictures instead
<knome> flocculant, isn't that what very young and very old people tend to do anyway?
 * knome hides
<bluesabre> morning all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> http://contest.xubuntu.org/ looks nice
<knome> :)
<knome> should put it into some kind of test, then announce the competition
<bluesabre> definitely
<flocculant> like really soon ... 
<knome> flocculant, yeah, i'm writing the mail
<flocculant> knome: hah
<flocculant> oh 
<flocculant> hah to not actually needing to read words not the mail :p
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: https://i.imgur.com/89PcVt0.jpg
<flocculant> bluesabre: ha ha 
<bluesabre> :d
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: see what happened is I saw slickymaster ... knome ... ad infinitum
<bluesabre> gotcha
<flocculant> and thought - mmm - check the last lines :p
<flocculant> saw slide thought that bzr pull was more than enough words :D
<knome> yup
<flocculant> bluesabre: g-s > software sources now points to software sources/updates thingy
<bluesabre> yay!
<bluesabre> we might have something usable this week
<flocculant> so I think that unless the thing completely implodes on Ubuntu then no reason to not go there
<flocculant> bluesabre: usable now 
<bluesabre> flocculant: do you think we should go ahead and swap over for people to start using it a bit?
<flocculant> well if we don't want to carry on using usc or go backwards to synaptic - then I think we should lose usc and add this as soon as practical :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: then it will be in tomorrow's image (unless there is no internet tonight)
<flocculant> bluesabre: do you know of the top of your head how usc dealt with dependencies on a removal of something? 
<bluesabre> I'm going to load up today's image tonight and look for greybird bugs and missing icons to poke ochosi
<bluesabre> flocculant: I think it just does the same as apt-get remove
<bluesabre> not sure though
<bluesabre> could test that tonight
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll look once I'm home then - be quicker
<flocculant> just want to know if it's the same as g-s mostly
<bluesabre> dpkg -l > old.txt
<bluesabre> install package
<bluesabre> dpkg -l > new.txt
<bluesabre> remove package
<bluesabre> dpkg -l > newer.txt
<bluesabre> and diff away
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> well I was just going to use usc then see if apt-get autoremove says anything :p
<bluesabre> that works
<bluesabre> easier too
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> darn
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> time to get ready for work, bbl
<flocculant> have a day :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: did it now - looks like usc just leaves behind the configs - gs leaves behind dependencies
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> I'll check in a clean install though - just in case I did something - if it's right I guess we should do some sort of 'article' 
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> seems -desktop is getting all happy about breeze being default in ubuntu while we're wanting to stop that :D
<knome> heh
<flocculant> anyway - time to wander again - bbl
<flocculant> knome: just very very quickly - perhaps a link in that mail re wallpaper might help :)
<knome> flocculant, if you read it, you'd noticed i asked people to be in touch with me
<knome> i don't want everybody and the world to poke their titty-pictures in the site
<knome> ...yet
<knome> flocculant, pull the slideshow
<knome> flocculant, and check the desktop slide especially
<knome> flocculant, the celebration of customization bluesabre talked about could now go there, potentially to replace the paragraphs at the bottom
<knome> ...you'll figure out why
<knome> i'm also thinking that now we might be able to drop the boxes near the panel
 * knome goes set up the contest testsite
<knome> question to people: do we want to show the submissions during the contest, or do we just show the winners once we are done?
<knome> Akxwi-dave, remind me to ask you one more question once i've sent you the mail with instructions
<lbssousa> Could you make Whisker Menu show it's icon label by default (and make it translatable) in Xubuntu default panel layout? My schools' teachers complain that its icon is too small.
<Akxwi-dave> knome, will do...
<Akxwi-dave> knome, personally i would show the finalists
<Akxwi-dave> before cossing winners
<knome> yeah
<knome> i'll have to write a small amount of code then
<knome> i haven't thought too much of that, yet...
<Akxwi-dave> is the team choosing the winners or the public?
<knome> the team or a subportion of the team
<knome> at least that's how it went the last time
<Akxwi-dave> in that case at least you dont have to write a voting system.. :-)
<knome> i did already
<knome> ;)
<Akxwi-dave> should have guessed..  I usually cheat and use a pre written mod for phpnuke or e107
<knome> heh :)
<knome> since the plugin adds the submission to the wordpress media gallery, it's easy enough to push some metadata for the submissions - and easy enough to write a simple UI for that
<knome> Akxwi-dave, sent mail, and will send the extra questions in a minute
<knome> and those are done too
<knome> Akxwi-dave, and if you are wondering, the instructions are kind of vague for a reason - we want the site to be so usable that we don't need to write long instructions
<Akxwi-dave> cheers amte
<knome> np
<Akxwi-dave> right bbl.. gotta drive to another office..
<knome> hf
<Akxwi-dave> ;-)
<knome> ...if possible
<dkessel> knome: may I help with a test submission?
<flocculant> knome: if by check desktop especially - you mean the colour changing - very nice - but not something I particularly like myself
<flocculant> not sure what you mean by "the celebration of customization bluesabre talked about"
<flocculant> re voting on wallpapers - given that we are a community flavour - perhaps we should let the community vote for "a number" and then "team" narrow that down
<flocculant> don't see why not - when other flavours do let community join in
<knome> flocculant, everything's possible...
<knome> flocculant, and re: customization i mean mentioning something about the plethora of options available in xubuntu
<knome> but, bbl
<pleia2> knome: should I look at the slideshow in the installer today, or is there a newer version in lp?
<pleia2> flocculant: any issues right now with using unetbootin vs. usb-creator-gtk with the daily isos? or should I just dd to a usb stick?
<pleia2> (assuming I'm making it on a 15.10 system)
<knome> pleia2, nothing is landed in the installer yet, there's a branch in launchpad though
<knome> pleia2, https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604
<knome> pleia2, if you want to look at that...
<pleia2> knome: ty
<knome> pleia2, basically just pull the branch, and run "./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu" in the branch root
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> hope the slideshow brings you surprises and joy
<pleia2> :)
<flocculant> pleia2: afaik the fixed ubuntu tool is fixed in xenial/unetbootin > no idea, stopped using that cycles ag- currently I use disks because can't be bothered to dd - so I would say dd it :)
<pleia2> flocculant: hah, wfm
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> when thebuntu tool is current everywhere - it works - they lost persistence which was causing the problem
 * pleia2 nods
<flocculant> "    - Use an equivalent of dd to make an exact copy of the image to the device" "    - This also breaks persistence."
<flocculant> december 2015
<knome> "heh"
<knome> so the only way to create a bootable USB device that you can later reuse with persistence is actually *install* the system on that device?
<flocculant> guess so
<flocculant> bbl
<knome> that's so expected that it's even genious.
<pleia2> heh
<pleia2> I don't know how to use disks, turns out
<knome> pleia2 not a DJ
<pleia2> har
<pleia2> imma try "restore disk image"
<akxwi-dave> evening all
<akxwi-dave> knome, first test uploads completed..  everything seems ok,
<pleia2> hey akxwi-dave 
<akxwi-dave> Hello pleia2 How are you today
<pleia2> good good
<knome> akxwi-dave, good to hear everything has gone smooth so far :)
<Nairwolf> hi, flocculant, you told me it's not necessary anymore to test upgrade ? 
<Nairwolf> it doesn't work from 14.04 to 16.04 right ? 
<knome> Nairwolf, for now, not, because the upgrade isn't working.
<flocculant> pleia2: yea restore is the one
<flocculant> knome: ty
<pleia2> flocculant: that's pretty handy :) testing once I find a place to put my laptop
<knome> pleia2, didn't you learn to carry things on your head in africa?
<knome> that's an essential skill!
<flocculant> pleia2: it does the whole - gparted can't see it cos it's all odd - but afaik dd does the same
<flocculant> Nairwolf: as knome said 
<knome> cos..by? bill? is it you?
<Nairwolf> ok, thanks
<flocculant> knome: ... 
<knome> ta-ra!
<Nairwolf> so tonight what I can do ? 
<pleia2> knome: haha, no, those people are seriously talented
<flocculant> Nairwolf: dailies are ALWAYS there :)
<knome> pleia2, totally!
<Nairwolf> okay !
<knome> pleia2, it would be great for the neck/back to be able to carry things like that
<flocculant> knome: back to the slideshow for a short time - not sure the bottom of the desktop slide would do justice to customisation - perhaps a couple of brief pointers and a slide for each ?
<flocculant> don't know how many we're aiming for
 * knome shrugs
 * flocculant *shrugs* as well and wanders off
<knome> :)
<flocculant> I'll not bother commenting on it if *shrug* is your response
<knome> what i mean is that i don't know, i'm just playing around with things
<knome> i don't even have an idea of the type of text we'd want to use
<knome> ...so the shrug isn't "i don't care", it's "i don't know, i'll think about it"
<knome> ("and poke slickymaster with it")
<Nairwolf> there is still this bug, and it seems to be really old. I don't think it will be treated untill the release
<Nairwolf> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-basicfilesystems/+bug/990744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990744 in partman-basicfilesystems (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu installer says: The creation of swap space in partition failed" [High,Triaged]
<Nairwolf> knome: how I am supposed to help you with the wallpaper contest ? 
<knome> Nairwolf, please reply to the thread on the mailing list and i'll get back to you via email
<Nairwolf> ok, I will do that
<flocculant> knome: re slideshow - I think I would be safe in saying you can probably Software for the package manager now :)
<knome> mhm
<knome> i wonder which icon we are using for it...
<flocculant> do we use different from the normal app one? 
<knome> no
<knome> but i don't know which icon the app uses :)
<flocculant> oic
<flocculant> sadly looks like a shopping bag ... 
<knome> ;)
<slickymaster> poke me ?!
<flocculant> poke poke poke
<slickymaster> will you be the poker, flocculant? 
<flocculant> nope
<Unit193> /kick slickymaster POKE
<flocculant> I'llbe the wooden spoon for stirring with 
 * knome stirs slickymaster's face with the wooden spoon
<knome> wait.
<slickymaster> so much violence going on
<knome> violence? i was stirring *very* gently
 * slickymaster doesn't even doubt it
<Nairwolf> I couldn't install the daily today...
<Nairwolf> see you, good night
<slickymaster> yeah, just checked krytarik, they weren't updated
<slickymaster> something might have gone wrong when I run the script
<slickymaster> or I might have't run it at all, and was convinced I did, when I push
<slickymaster> who knows
<slickymaster> ?!
<slickymaster> krytarik, were you planning on working on de.pot tonight?
<knome> nobody knows about you...
<slickymaster> nobody knows the troubles I've seen...
<krytarik> slickymaster: Nope, just pointing out.
<slickymaster> ok
<slickymaster> I'll do it later then
<bluesabre> evening alllll
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-03
 * bluesabre high fives slickymaster
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/601 thanks!
<pleia2> launchpad is so slooow
<knome> not as slow as the wiki!
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<knome> pleia2, did you get to look at the updated slideshow yet?
<pleia2> trying :)
<knome> no hurries :)
<pleia2> where is my cat
<knome> i ate it
<pleia2> :O
<knome> we can add another speech bubble saying "meow"
<pleia2> how about a squirrel
<knome> not drawn yet
<pleia2> the first slide looks a bit plain
<knome> it's WIP
<pleia2> haha, ok
<knome> the whole slideshow, that is
<knome> that's why it's not in trunk
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> the internet told me we won't have a media player
<knome> yes
<knome> the vote where we decided that was on the xubuntu-devel mailing list
<knome> i think you voted too :P
<pleia2> go me
<knome> that's why i was asking you for your media manager preference too
<knome> since we're running an article series that presents some of the teams' favorites now that we don't ship any
<knome> (news?)
<pleia2> I didn't actually
<knome> aha :)
<knome> might be
<pleia2> but I remember it now
<knome> yeah
<knome> good
<pleia2> I had no opinion since I'd never used them really
<knome> you might have been under the influence of influence or jetlag
<pleia2> that too
<knome> the latter one is very likely even..
 * pleia2 Strategy Document homework now
<knome> <3
<knome> if you are referring to the change i proposed, it's fortunately only a small one
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> is good
<knome> yeah, i didn't expect much else
<knome> it's just describing the current situation
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> we'll have a fun meeting tomorrow
<knome> many things
<pleia2> triangles
<knome> hmm? :)
<pleia2> desktop background
<pleia2> is blueman crashing make it failing test?
<knome> oh heh, yeah, that's the dev wallpaper we've had forever
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> pleia2, not a fail, just a regular bug
<pleia2> k, that's what I put it as
<knome> don't know why i'm highlighting you all the time
 * knome facepalms
<pleia2> yeah, it's only us here!
<bluesabre> oh hey, people appeared
<pleia2> I did an iso test so flocculant will still love me for another cycle
<bluesabre> oh good
<knome> we will all love you eternally
<knome> ...for doing the ISO test, of course
<pleia2> on real hardware, too!
<knome> oh my, that's an upgrade to eternally*2
<bluesabre> overachiever
<pleia2> I need to look into this kernel bug now
<knome> fix it plz
<knome> :P
<pleia2> I can't fix it!
<knome> :((
 * knome downgrades pleia2's love level to eternity*1.5
<pleia2> hm, so the last kernel upgrade I did was to 4.2.0-27 and that worked, it's -30 that's breaking but I don't know if ones in between broke too
<bluesabre> uh oh
<pleia2> :\
<pleia2> I don't know how we went through so many kernels
<pleia2> wait, -27 and -30 are the only ones, there weren't ones in between
 * tsimonq2 is loved eternally*100 for all the ISO QA tests I've done...AHEM AHEM.../me moves along
<tsimonq2> heheheh :P
<Unit193> I have pings..
<Unit193> bluesabre: I didn't touch the seed, of course.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, pushed the seed so we should be good to go
<Guest45173> switched xubuntu-dev looking for licensing answers.  What cannot be used besides logos, icons, etc?  We want to create a custom build based on xubuntu and distribute the .iso commercially to techs, not end users
<Guest45173> (already consulted http://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/)
<pleia2> we tried to include everything on there
<knome> basically, the derivatives page covers everything that's essential
<knome> if you have specific questions, we'll happily help with them
<Guest45173> okay good to know you're here.  thank you for your input
<knome> no problem
<knome> the guidelines are written to make your work easier, not to land a tight set of rules that you must obey
<bluesabre> flocculant: found a bug in gnome-software :)
<bluesabre> bug 1552512
<ubottu> bug 1552512 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "No application data on install, No screenshots after update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1552512
<bluesabre> too bad I didn't get a screenshot of the screenshots, looked pretty nice
<bluesabre> otherwise, it looks good https://imgur.com/a/qh9v0
<Unit193> !info app-install-data-partner
<ubottu> app-install-data-partner (source: app-install-data-partner): Application Installer (data files for partner applications/repositories). In component main, is optional. Version 13.04 (wily), package size 2 kB, installed size 39 kB
<Unit193> bluesabre: Do we need that with g-s?
<bluesabre> Unit193: dunno :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: looks like ubuntu-desktop still rdepends on it
<Unit193> Sure, but as a good example, usc deps on app-install-data while g-s doesn't.
<bluesabre> I'll check here in a bit
<bluesabre> running through the iso now to see if there are any fixes needed in greybird or elementary-xfce
<bluesabre> ochosi: bug 1552518
<ubottu> bug 1552518 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Linked toolbar buttons do not draw correctly in Greybird" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1552518
<bluesabre> ochosi: Printers > Help > About seems to be missing its icon, will see if I can dig that one up before reporting
<bluesabre> everything else seems ok
<bluesabre> Unit193: doesn't seem to break anything by removing it
<bluesabre> night all
<Unit193> G'night..
<flocculant> bluesabre: could be too sleepy - but don't understand that bug :)
<knome> pleia2, just saying that we don't forget; there's one more issue to solve before moving to https
<knome> pleia2, when you load x.org with https, browsers do not apply extras.css correctly, because it's from http
<bluesabre> knome: drop the leading http: and just use //
<bluesabre> ?
<bluesabre>  //static.xubuntu.org/www/extras.css?ver=4.4.2
<knome> bluesabre, the problem isn't that we don't get the right protocol
<knome> the problem is mixed content; firefox refuses to use the http css file when the site is in https
<knome> and we don't have https in static
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that's a problem
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> might just need to serve extras from xubuntu.org or add ssl to static
<knome> one option is to load the css from the url via php and then shove it into a <style> tag
<bluesabre> yeah, that would work
<knome> the problem with serving extras from xubuntu.org is that we don't have file access there..
<bluesabre> hacky but functional
<knome> the ideal situation would be that we would have file access to the whole theme on x.org
<knome> then i could update it on-demand
<knome> but since that's not going to happen, i don't think file access to one file (even via an html form) is possible
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> what's in extras?
<knome> temporary fixes
<knome> so if something breaks, i'll put the fix in there first 
<knome> then move to main
<knome> this was originally set up to be able to fix things quickly
<bluesabre> gotcha
<knome> so not having that work in https (especially if it's the default) is as good as not have the extras included at all
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> guessing we depend on IS for xubuntu.org updates other than content?
<knome> yep
<knome> so maybe we should raise this question up in the "switch to HTTPS" thread with them and ask for their opinion on the options
<knome> basically they say "it's your site, you do whatever you want with it", but i can't help but think that this loading css from a different domain/server is not the ideal situation for them either
<flocculant> bluesabre: awesom
<flocculant> e - just thought I'd check that software was there - obviously you knew it would be :)
<knome> Unit193, if i create a new branch for meetingology, will you set a new bot up for testing purposes?
<flocculant> knome: don't know if slides are in order currently - if they are - suggest swapping the support ones
<knome> they are
<knome> i'd say we want the mouse to face right
<knome> so swapping them would mean the tail would be on some other slide than the other support
<knome> so: i'll have to think about that
<flocculant> I'd say that's besides the point - someone using the live session is more likely to want real-time than a doc
<knome> sure
<knome> i'm not disagreeing with that part :)
<flocculant> not just a swap of wording ?
<knome> well the thing is, the live slide needs those bubbles
<knome> and the live one has the bubble for the main content too, kind of said by the mouse..
<knome> a tail does not speak
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> I'm not disagreeing with the head and tail thing - though of course the angular bits only look like a mouse to you ... 
<knome> maybe
<knome> anglish bits
<knome> :P
<flocculant> knome: so why not have the tail on the desktop then? 
<flocculant> then the bubbles will be with the head :)
<knome> the desktop slide has soooo much stuff already :|
<knome> and the point that the mouse is spanning those two slides is that it kind of binds them together better
<flocculant> well - sorry but that just seems like the ubuntu way of doing things - form over function
<knome> lol
<flocculant> as long as it looks ok - sod the content :)
<knome> i'm not saying we can't change it... i'm explaining why i'm doing what i am
<flocculant> yea :)
<flocculant> I understand your points for sure
<flocculant> the content is the wrong way round in my opinion
<knome> yep
<knome> i did think about it
<knome> but i'm not sure how to fix it right off the bat
<flocculant> I didn't think about them being bubbles tbh - never seen a rectangular bubble before :D
<knome> lol
<knome> well, speech bubbles
<knome> i'm sure you've seen rectangularish speech bubbles in comics
<flocculant> I'll think about it as well - given your 'issue'
<knome> haha ;)
<knome> thanks
<flocculant> just quick thought ... if we're going to have a pure contribute slide at the end - why not move the Want to further to the front - set the mood - that could have the tail
<flocculant> eg swap Help with Want to
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> on the other hand - maybe over-thinking the whole slideshow anyway - who sees it for longer than 5 minutes nowadays :p
<knome> yep
<flocculant> excluding Unit193 :D
<knome> one of the things we wanted to change was making the slideshow more graphic
<knome> so at least it's that now..
<flocculant> yea - I'm not complaining about how it 'looks' at all - good improvements if you ask me
<knome> ack
<knome> we should also see how the slideshow looks when we've landed the rest of the artwork
<flocculant> bluesabre: our buildlog > libreoffice-style-breeze (1:5.1.0-0ubuntu1 ubuntu-minimal changelog  Added libreoffice-style-breeze to desktop-recommends
<flocculant> don't know how that impacts on bug 1548647
<ubottu> bug 1548647 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice uses breeze style" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548647
<flocculant> knome: where alberto has marked the importance of medium to our artwork package
<knome> ;)
<knome> i'll reply to him on the bug
<flocculant> better you than me
<knome> do we think it's high?
<flocculant> well given that we spent a bunch of time in 15.10 getting the damn icons there :p
<flocculant> s/the/our 
<knome> mhm
<knome> '
<knome> oops
<flocculant> '
<flocculant> s'ok
<flocculant> bbl
<knome> hf
<bluesabre> knome: while you're in there, maybe mention libreoffice-style-elementary as a package Recommends so we can solve it easily
<knome> recommends instead of?
<bluesabre> http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/libreoffice-gtk
<bluesabre> libreoffice-style-breeze | libreoffice-style-tango | libreoffice-style-elementary
<knome> sounds sensible to me
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: meh, yeah i knew about that linked buttons bug, and i even tried to fix it before. it's just really a lot of work and code to change...
<knome> ooh, a wild ochosi appears!
<ochosi> and i'm not even sure there's a straightforward way of fixing it without rebasing on adwaita
<ochosi> the two have drifted apart for too long probably
<ochosi> and i'd appreciate not having to rebase before gtk3.20
<ochosi> but yeah, i see that releasing an LTS version of xubuntu with a buggy theme also isnt an option
<knome> let's schedule a hacking session between the two of us to rebase on adwaita then...
<knome> gtk3.20 or not
<bluesabre> UI freeze a week from today
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> Being a bug, not that big of a deal for the freeze :)
<knome> well rebasing on SASS theme is a big deal
<bluesabre> Yes
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i mean one way to do it would be to do SASS -> css and then take out the relevant portions
<ochosi> i sort of tried that
<ochosi> but failed, so i'm not sure whether i really know what the relevant portions are
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome: gnome software is in today's image, in case you're wanting to do any icon work
<ochosi> icon work needed there?
<knome> ochosi, hahah
<bluesabre> Your call. Gnome icons != elementary icons
<bluesabre> :)
 * knome attempts to do enough SASS porting work to lure ochosi deep into the porting too
<bluesabre> I'll try to do the upstream lo theme work this weekend
<bluesabre> Also, won't be able to make the meeting today
<bluesabre> Looks like I won't be needed for it though, so that works out
<knome> heh
<ochosi> yeah, i also won't be here today... :/
<ochosi> ok, i
<ochosi> 'll look at gnome software and the needed icons
<ochosi> knome: well ok, i'll wait and see ;)
<ochosi> potentially could take *some* time this weekend
<knome> yeah, let's see how this spans out
<knome> looks like the dev env wasn't complete anyway, i can't seem to get changes take effect
<knome> but i'll work on it...
<ochosi> okeydoke
<ochosi> monday evening might also work
<knome> ok, some progress at least now
<knome> but meh :)
<ochosi> (i know that's a bit specific, but this is how my free time is structured these days...)
<knome> i don't understand why this looks like poop since i've only changed a few colors
<ochosi> you can also look at the SASS branch of numix
<knome> bah
<knome> humbug
<ochosi> but tbh i'd rather stay in sync with adwaita directly
<knome> yeah
<dkessel> slickymaster: nah, there's still gmb in the docs :p
 * dkessel uses Unit193 's excellent docs mirror site again to compare stuff on the generated docs pages
<pleia2> knome: oh yes, I completely forgot about the external css thing, that'll be hard to solve
<knome> pleia2, i pointed out one workaround already (load the file with php and dump into an inline <style>)
<pleia2> good grief
<knome> yeah
<knome> that just leaves me with the thought: why don't we just manage the stuff in x.org in *some* way
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i don't know how strict the IS is with file access, but they don't seem to deny us any writes to the database, so we could alternatively just save the css in a wordpress option and dump that into a <style>
<knome> ...but then again that leaves me feeling like "why can't they just allow the file write"
<knome> but maybe they just won't
<pleia2> heh
<flocculant> wiki is great today ... 
<Nairwolf> why ?
<flocculant> you missed the sarcasm ... 
<Nairwolf> yes, sometimes, it's better not to know...
<flocculant> :)
<dkessel> hah, german is now the second-most complete xubuntu-docs translation :D
<flocculant> assuming English is first? 
<knome> english isn't a translation, it's the source..
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> whatever :p
<pleia2> ok, meeting time
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  3 17:00:03 2016 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<flocculant> I'm apparently available for this :)
<pleia2> we have an angeda
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings#Agenda
<pleia2> who all is here for our community team meeting? :)
<flocculant> I'm apparently available for this :)
<knome> slickymasterWork is on and off
<flocculant> :)
<knome> as always
<knome> and i'm here as well
 * bluesabre is watching
<slickymasterWork> I'll doubt I'll be able to continue logged on
<Nairwolf> I'm here
<flocculant> hey bluesabre 
<pleia2> great
<pleia2> #topic Open action items
<pleia2> looks like we have just the one: knome and branau to collaborate with setting up a wordpress instance for the wallpaper submissions by sunday, feb 21
<pleia2> knome: status update?
<knome> done
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> we're running testing at the moment
<knome> after that's done, we can announce the contest
<knome> so next week
<pleia2> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-March/011059.html
<pleia2> ^^ if you want to be a guinea pig
<pleia2> I mean help
<dkessel> russian is first, surprisingly... never noticed any russian here....
<pleia2> alright, moving on
<pleia2> #topic Updates and Announcements
<flocculant> sorry
<flocculant> just quickly
<flocculant> knome: if you do need testing - I can 
<knome> flocculant, ack, i'll send you the testing info after the meeting
<pleia2> so, any updates/announcements?
<pleia2> #info Beta 1 happened http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-16-04-lts-beta-1/
<knome> #info knome has been working on the article series for the website: http://wiki.xubuntu.org/website/series
<knome> re: those, the plan is to publish the frist "my media manager" article on week 12
<knome> schedule for the other series is still open, it depends a lot on the amount of articles we have
<knome> if people have ideas, feel free to add them to the wiki
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> if people want to help with the articles, just poke me or edit the wiki page noting you are working on something
<Nairwolf> do you want to translate these articles ? 
<knome> the website doesn't support translations currently, so to begin with, no
<knome> but if somebody works with local teams, they can totally cooperate with us to publish translated articles on their websites
<Nairwolf> I will do that, in France xubuntu is really popular
<flocculant> \o/
<pleia2> alright, drifting off topic from announcements
<pleia2> any other updates?
<pleia2> #topic Discussion items
<pleia2> #subtopic The installer slideshow
<pleia2> Full info: The installer slideshow has been kept the same for some time now, other than a few small graphical changes and some rewording of the slides. Should we keep this type of approach or should we choose a completely different approach?
<knome> there is a WIP branch at https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604
<pleia2> I looked at it yesterday, pretty sparse so far but shaping up nicely
<knome> and commentary/discussion has been ongoing on this channel as well as at http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1604-slideshow
<knome> so the "WIP" part means we still lack some artwork
<knome> and some of the content isn't final
<Nairwolf> I can't access to this pad, is it because I'm not in xubuntu team ? 
<knome> and we might add one more slide that discusses the customizability
<flocculant> Nairwolf: go to offtopic
<flocculant> might?
<flocculant> I think that we should
<flocculant> given it'll be live for 3 years
<knome> the other option is to include the content in the desktop slide
<flocculant> oh 
<flocculant> sorry :)
<knome> ...but so far, since we don't know what kind of content it is, it's impossible to make a judgement on whether it should have its own slide or not
<knome> so as always, ideas are welcome
<pleia2> knome: oh, explain how to download and run the slideshow?
<knome> yes
<flocculant> I'd like to see some more on *customise* to be honest
<knome> 1) bzr branch lp:~xubuntu-doc/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-1604
<knome> 2) cd to the branch root
<knome> 3) ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
<flocculant> should be in http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/documentation.html perhaps
<flocculant> or somewhere ...
<knome> flocculant, yeah, we currently have none really, quite a bit of that can fit in the desktop slide if we lose the two columns at the bottom
<flocculant> perhaps
<flocculant> except you were saying it had too much anyway
<knome> flocculant, this branch is temporary, but yeah, we could mention the usual slideshow branch
<flocculant> I wonder if perhaps we could
<flocculant> slide > introduces stuff
<flocculant> slide > expands a bit
<flocculant> but ofc - time constraint(s)
<flocculant> I see about 2 slides when I install on ssd 
<knome> :)
<knome> we likely don't want to add more than 1 more slide if even that
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I'll retract then given I want a contribute one :D
<knome> flocculant, there is a contribute slide...
<knome> basically, the idea behind these changes has been that we should move the content to the website (and other places) and mostly only point to them
<flocculant> so we have 1 to play with :)
<pleia2> and to remove my cat :'(
<knome> because the information is valuable even for those who aren't installing
<flocculant> ofc
<knome> pleia2, as i said, we can add one more bubble in the local support slide saying "Meow"
<flocculant> in blue
<pleia2> indeed :)
<pleia2> but we don't translate into cat, so maybe that's confusing
<pleia2> and my cats are too lazy to do translations
<knome> but isn't the vocabulary very small too, just dump in random "meow"s and "mow"s
<knome> :P
<flocculant> knome: if you've some time later perhaps we could thrash a few bits out - working on from the conversation earlier
<knome> yep
<pleia2> so, want to continue this outside a meeting?
<knome> no, but ok :(
<knome> (just kidding)
<pleia2> har
<flocculant> hah - we can carry on if people want 
<pleia2> I don't have much to add just yet
<pleia2> #subtopic Gnome-software update
<flocculant> oh my
<pleia2> Full info: Gnome-software update - aiming for decision by 7th March
<pleia2> so, who wants to start on this one? :)
<flocculant> so then - a few words I can start with then a link
<flocculant> we've now got gs in the seed
<flocculant> I've spent most of the week playing about with it 
<flocculant> you can install stuff from repos now
<flocculant> now 
<flocculant> I've picked up on a bunch of bugs ... 
<flocculant> some are being worked on. some low priority, some high
<flocculant> I've spent some time with some in -desktop with Robert Ancell
<Nairwolf> If Ubuntu wants to integrate gnome-software in a LTS, I suppose we can trust them and hope the package will be enough stable for a LTS, no ? 
<Nairwolf> I will test it tonight with the daily
<flocculant> I *could* give the meeting a whole list of bug #'s - probably best though to just give us 
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software
<flocculant> team perhaps can look
<flocculant> the couple of issues I've found very very recently are
<flocculant> install some app - dependencies need apt-get autoremove > if this isn't changed - then we should at least let our people know
<flocculant> currently you can run gs and synaptic at the same time > not been brave enough to kill this install - only found it just before meeting so no time to kill a vm
<flocculant> bluesabre has picked up on a couple of points
<pleia2> that's a fair number of bugs
<flocculant> if people try and find bugs with gs with me as reporter - they'll be from our base
<flocculant> I HAVE tried to confirm all in a vm
<flocculant> end
<flocculant> pleia2: ack - BUT
<flocculant> robert and in fact all I've dealt with in -desktop have seemed to appreciate the bugs
<flocculant> many are triaged/fix commited
<pleia2> that's wonderful to hear :)
<flocculant> so while there *are* bugs - I think one of *us* being there helps
<flocculant> easy for a dev to not think about the bits elsewhere
<flocculant> so then
<flocculant> summing up 
<flocculant> I think that we should just go with it - the nasty stuff will get dealt with I'm sure - they need it a lot more than we do
<flocculant> I hope that helps everyone :)
<pleia2> wfm
<pleia2> flocculant: is there a way xubuntu testers/contributors can pitch in with testing?
<flocculant> pleia2: well
<pleia2> people love playing with new things
<flocculant> basically they should have it now - if they install from the image - they definitely will have after 10:00UTC today
<flocculant> oh yea
<flocculant> one thing I've noticed locally *today* and I think this is probably to do with x-defaults or something, not pinged bluesabre yet - I no longer see software (as gs) in my menu
<flocculant> but it works in live
<flocculant> /done
<pleia2> I guess I mean, does the desktop team have a workflow/reporting/package test that people can do?
<flocculant> not that I know of
<flocculant> it wasn't seeing anything but local installed at the beginning of the week
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> if they do come up with something, let me know so I can share it :)
<pleia2> and maybe let them know that it could be a useful thing, if they want more testers and bugs reported
<flocculant> ofc
<pleia2> thanks flocculant, nice to see this moving along
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> anyone else have anything to add?
<knome> mm
<knome> yes
 * knome stops ranting on the doc team meeting for a minute
<knome> pleia2, wait, was this anything to add to the pkg manager discussion or anything?
<pleia2> knome: this topic :)
<knome> then nope
 * knome goes back to ranting
<Nairwolf> I have to leave, I will read logs after. 
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
<pleia2> now anything :)
<flocculant> I guess we need to trak the icon down 
<flocculant> for the slideshow
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-February/011045.html
<knome> anybody want to say anything, or should we just start the vote?
<pleia2> oh! that wasn't on the agenda
<pleia2> #info Strategy Document rewrite for "Xubuntu users" (and a bit more)
<pleia2> I'm happy to vote
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> knome: I'm good if the change I proposed went in
<flocculant> wording iirc
<knome> it's in revision 531
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/xsd-community-updates-feb2016/revision/531
<flocculant> yep - thought it was 
<knome> pleia2, start the vote then :)
<pleia2> bluesabre: still here?
<knome> pleia2, we'll just continue on the mailing list :)
<pleia2> okie
<flocculant> vote now wfm
<pleia2> #vote Approve Strategy Document rewrite for "Xubuntu users" (and a bit more) (+1) or disapprove text (-1)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Approve Strategy Document rewrite for "Xubuntu users" (and a bit more) (+1) or disapprove text (-1)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<krytarik> +1
<flocculant> +1
<knome> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from krytarik
<meetingology> +1 received from flocculant
<meetingology> +1 received from knome
<knome> :D
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<knome> bang!
<pleia2> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Approve Strategy Document rewrite for "Xubuntu users" (and a bit more) (+1) or disapprove text (-1)
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> we'll continue on list :)
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<pleia2> anything else?
<knome> i don't think so
<pleia2> #topic Schedule next meeting
<pleia2> lucky flocculant gets to schedule it next
<flocculant> oh woot
<pleia2> thanks flocculant!
<pleia2> :)
<knome> woohoo!
<pleia2> thanks everyone, happy thursday
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  3 17:57:18 2016 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-03-03-17.00.moin.txt
<flocculant> 4/4/16 @16:23
<knome> so late?
<flocculant> pfft
<pleia2> lol 16:23
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> someday the wiki will stop erroring and I'll get these minutes up
<flocculant> I would say that 'the next person up should ensure the minutes are there' 
<flocculant> maybe I will next meeting :D
<pleia2> I think our Minutes magic page just doesn't work anymore
 * pleia2 just tries to create page
<knome> :D
<pleia2> moar 500
<knome> yay
<flocculant> \o/
<pleia2> I'll try this again later
<knome> pleia2, i'm doing it
<Unit193> knome: Going to dokuwiki meetingology then?
<knome> Unit193, yeah
<knome> pleia2, minutes are up
<pleia2> knome: thank you
<knome> np
<Unit193> Might want to talk to whoever can merge code to meetingology too.
<knome> i can handle AlanBell
<Unit193> You sure it's him anymore?
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bots/+members#active
<knome> i can also poke jussi
<knome> like, poke really hard.
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> pleia2: you want someone not at work to do the minutes ?
<flocculant> oh nvm - jolly old Pasi did it :D
<flocculant> oh meh
<flocculant> knome: vote result looked odd before I got another 500
<Unit193> jussi, someone even more inactive. :D
<Unit193> Pici runs all the bots now.
<flocculant> Pici ftw then
<Unit193> flocculant: 1516217 is done right?
<flocculant> bug 1516217
<ubottu> bug 1516217 in xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin (Ubuntu) "Shows two notifications" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1516217
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> believe so
<Nairwolf> knome, I've summited two files, seems okay
<Nairwolf> but you can easily upload something else than .jpg .svg or .png
<Nairwolf> you rename a file, and it's okay
<knome> is the "something else" actually still an image file?
<knome> for example, if you rename an image called image.jpg to image.doc, it is still an image file.
<Nairwolf> no, I've rennamed a pdf file with .jpg
<Nairwolf> if you look, I've called it simply "pdf" 
<knome> ok, i'll have a look at the security check
<Nairwolf> yes, I don't know what's happen if you send a .js file. But I suppose that as soon as you don't execute the file, it's okay
<knome> oh. the wordpress function gets the filetype based on the filename. lazy
<Nairwolf> yes, a lot of sotfware are cheated by that
<Nairwolf> they just verify the name extension
<Nairwolf> I suppose it's not really dangerous
<knome> Nairwolf, try again; it should fail now for the pdf
<Unit193> What about xpm? :D
<knome> that too
<knome> only jpg, png and svg are allowed
<Unit193> :(
<knome> and submissions from the user ~unit193 are given automatically a -1 vote
<knome> JUUUUST KIDDING!
<knome> (but no, no xpm's)
<Unit193> Understandably.
<Unit193> About the -1 vote, that is.
<knome> next i should make sure svg's are shown...
<knome> but that's a backed woe
<Unit193> I may have missed it, this doesn't require the user in ~xubuntu-users?
<knome> backend too...
<knome> Unit193, it doesn't.
<knome> we can easily make that so if we want though
<Nairwolf> ok, knome
<Nairwolf> that works
<flocculant> knome: if you need testers - feel free :)
<knome> oh right
<knome> flocculant, info sent
<flocculant> looks like it arrived too :)
<Nairwolf> I realize it's difficult to know the licence of a specific picture
<Unit193> Not if you made it.
<Nairwolf> it's not like software, if you find some code source somewhere, you're almost sure to find the licence. With pictures, it's so much easy to copy and share a picture...
<flocculant> knome: point #1 - should we not make reading the terms a necessary part of submitting? 
<Nairwolf> But, I know that without licence, it's by default copyrighted
<knome> flocculant, you have to check the checkbox...
<Nairwolf> flocculant: it's necessary
<flocculant> knome: aah cool - ignore me for a moment then :D
<knome> flocculant, even if we made a user scroll through a page, we couldn't know any better if they read them or not
<knome> :)
<flocculant> no ofc not - but we can say they agreed to them :D
<knome> yep
<Unit193> Make 'em as short as possible, more likely to read it.
<flocculant> Unit193: for sure
<Nairwolf> Yes, Unit193 has a good advice
<Unit193> Every so often he does, sure. :P
<knome> Unit193, http://contest.xubuntu.org/help/terms/
<knome> Unit193, they are pretty short compared to some of the terms i've read..
<Unit193> knome: I wasn't saying they were long, hadn't seen them.  Nice bullet points, makes skimming for the good stuff easier! :)
<knome> Unit193, good good
<Nairwolf> Knome, yes it was pretty short, and I've read them
<knome> and same terms as we had the last time...
<Unit193> (I figured I'd not be of much help testing the contest, even more so since you know I don't create images.)
<flocculant> Unit193: do you think I do? 
<flocculant> I'm just testing the process :)
<Nairwolf> I've contacted the author of a really nice wallpaper in order to know the licence
<knome> yeah, flocculant is sending images of his dog..
<Unit193> flocculant: Yes!  More specifically, you know how to press all the buttons and throw the spaghetti at the wall better. :P
<Nairwolf> oh ! Seems to be the perfect wallpaper flocculant ! 
<Nairwolf> I want dog's flocculant as wallpaper !
<Unit193> flocculant: FWIW, I actually have been following up and getting a problem with Qt5 and xenial fixed.  Just not said anything here because doesn't matter to Xubuntu.
<knome> flocculant, for some reason, i don't see what you sent
<knome> are you trolling?
<knome> :P
<knome> or did i break something...
<flocculant> knome: well it lists 3 for me
<knome> and do you see the images?
<flocculant> no - should I? 
<knome> yeah...
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> knome: obviously these are just images I have kicking about in backdrops - is that going to make any difference? 
<knome> nope, this is testing and i'll wipe them all
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> well just jpg's or png's
<knome> or svg's
<flocculant> but I am doing this from xenial ofc
<knome> heh
<knome> flocculant, can you send them again?
<flocculant> knome: I meant what I'm putting there - not what I could
<knome> i think i figured out what broke
<flocculant> knome: I just did a new one
<knome> oh :)
<flocculant> oh ok
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i don't see it
<knome> i deleted 3 of yours
<flocculant> well it was before you figured something out :)
<knome> hehe
<flocculant> knome: yup - that's working now
<knome> good
<flocculant> delete works
<knome> \o/
<flocculant> and if it works for me ... 
<bluesabre> knome, add me, will test whatever needs tested after dinner
<knome> bluesabre, instructions in your mail
<Nairwolf> everything seems to work with me knome
<Nairwolf> goodbye
<flocculant> knome: you have time to warble slideshows at all? 
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<knome> flocculant, i'm kind of tired, but i listen well, and can totally throw ideas around
<flocculant> knome: no rush at all 
<bluesabre> Hey flocculant
<flocculant> knome: I'm away tomorrow till Saturday - then around for ages again
<knome> right
<flocculant> knome: how much time do we have? 
<knome> ui freeze is next thu
<flocculant> ok - perhaps over the weekend maybe? 
<knome> yeah
<knome> flocculant, bluesabre: btw, since you are in the -website team, you should be able to vote and see the results on the contest site too - feel free to try that out as well
<flocculant> knome: oh right - didn't think of logging in with website rights
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> knome, will do
<knome> cheerio
<flocculant> night night
<knome> nighty nighty flocculant 
<flocculant> not gone anywhere yet - thought you were :)
<knome> nah
<knome> i said i'm kind of tired
<knome> means i'll hang out for an hour more at least
<knome> :P
<flocculant> oh right 
<flocculant> you said cheerio - implies goodbye to me :D
<knome> aha :D
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-04
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hullo bb
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> knome: contest seems functional
<bluesabre> might want to make attribution clearer
<bluesabre> knome: would changing any of my account settings in my profile break anything?
<bluesabre> knome: did the mail go out for strategy document voting? I'm +1 for the changes
<bluesabre> night all
<Unit193> Erm..
<Nairwolf> hi guys, I've asked the author of a wallpaper what was the licence, and he/she asked me "How will it be shared ?" What can I ask ? 
<Nairwolf> It will not be the default wallpaper, right, but it will be available for all users, right ? 
<bluesabre> http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/libreoffice-style-elementary is now built by libreoffice, so we should have more leverage with making our theme default
<bluesabre> knome, flocculant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1548647
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1548647 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice uses breeze style" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> (added a comment and debdiff)
<Nairwolf> by the way, have you already experimented this bug ?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-basicfilesystems/+bug/990744 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 990744 in partman-basicfilesystems (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu installer says: The creation of swap space in partition failed" [High,Triaged]
<Nairwolf> it's really problematic with you choose the option "erase & install" and if you have already a xubuntu installed
<flocculant> I've never seen it 
<flocculant> the issue that is 
<Nairwolf> I hope to test it again this week-end
<ochosi> knome: so if you really want to work on the SASS port lemme know (or just start by pushing a new branch
<knome> ochosi, i'll push a new branch at some point, and yeah, it needs to be done, so..
<knome> bluesabre, attribution clearer in what way?
<knome> bluesabre, changing your profile shouldn't break or affect anything
<knome> bluesabre, we only use the username in anything important
<knome> bluesabre, no voting on ml yet, i should take it there
<ochosi> knome: i'll try to help out with it was what i meant ;)
<knome> ochosi, hehe, sure
<knome> ochosi, if you have ideas how to get the theme set up so that you can actually test it, i'm happy to hear that
<knome> ochosi, i've got the SASS->CSS stuff set up
<knome> ochosi, but when i activate the theme that is basically a copy of adwaita with some hex value changes, i see something completely different
<knome> ochosi, eg. not all of it is correctly applied
<knome> ochosi, maybe that can be related to the asset loading, but i haven't investigated very deeply
<ochosi> knome: for that you could actually take a look at numix
<ochosi> also, adwaita is normally compiled to some binary format
<knome> ochosi, yeah, i have a vague understanding og the gresource format..
<bluesabre> knome: "	Specify the attribution name you would like to be used with your submission. Do not insert copyright or year, just the name."
<bluesabre> maybe not the clearest thing
<bluesabre> or I'm an idiot :D
<knome> plz suggest better wording :)
<knome> would it help to give an example?
<bluesabre> maybe
<knome> eg. "not '(c) 2016 Bimbam Bulla', only 'Bimbam Bulla'"
<bluesabre> yeah, seeing an example might make it easier.  For some reason I just seemed to struggle when reading it initially
<knome> :D
<knome> i would have asked for "Your name" on a regular form, but because internet and some people don't want to be known as anything else than Unit193...
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> No, I read "name" and think "Unit 193", 'tis OK.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-05
<flocculant> knome: left a note on the slides pad
<knome> mm
<knome> btw, we can affect slide progress speed
<knome> but of course we can only make it so fast so people have time to read it
<knome> flocculant, also left a note at the chat - no need to reply, just for information there
<flocculant> knome: seen that 
<flocculant> as far as speed goes - I think I've asked this before - speed overall? or speed per slide?
<flocculant> speed per slide might be useful 
<flocculant> as you say - only so much time overall available :)
<knome> i would have to check to make sure, but i think the generic conf setting is "how much time it takes for a slide to progress" (not per-slide)
<knome> but we *can* affect per-slide stuff too
<knome> it's a bit hacky, but..
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> cos obviously first one doesn't need long really
<knome> yep
<flocculant> hey you're did get the right image to install xubuntu :p
<knome> haha
<flocculant> anyway - main thing - do the notes I added make sense? not whether you agree or not - but understand what I mean :)
<knome> yep
<flocculant> k cool
<knome> maybe change your editor color to a bit lighter share
<knome> *shade
<knome> to not make my head hurt so much :P
<knome> that works too
<flocculant> better? 
<knome> see above :P
<flocculant> didn't really take much notice of the colour :)
<knome> i only notice it when the contrast is crappy :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> the darkest shades shouldn't even be there, they are unusable
<flocculant> yea
<bluesabre> hm https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.xenial_chinese-fonts/+merge/288195
<bluesabre> quite a difference in size
<bluesabre> !info fonts-noto-cjk xenial
<ubottu> fonts-noto-cjk (source: fonts-noto-cjk): "No Tofu" font families with large Unicode coverage (CJK). In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.004+repack1-1 (xenial), package size 72656 kB, installed size 112297 kB
<bluesabre> !info fonts-noto-hinted xenial
<ubottu> fonts-noto-hinted (source: fonts-noto): "No Tofu" font families with large Unicode coverage (hinted). In component universe, is optional. Version 20160116-1 (xenial), package size 4725 kB, installed size 15581 kB
<bluesabre> bbl
<flocculant> quite? 
<flocculant> that's polite :p
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> why's this guy wanting to change our stuff anyway? 
<bluesabre> probably because chinese, korean, and japanese fonts are not present at all in font-noto-hinted
<flocculant> yea realise that
<flocculant> so I am now ready to move release notes to a working wiki ;)
<flocculant> if anyone actually has working access to the meeting page - can they do the deed for the next community meeting - thanks :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-06
 * flocculant reiterates the "so I am now ready to move release notes to a working wiki ;)" comment 
<flocculant> why do I get this thing sometime when workspace changes if I move mouse sideways a bit quick ... 
<flocculant> hidden hotcorners or something ?
<knome> hidden stupidity
 * knome hides
<flocculant> well
<knome> oh, hmm
<knome> :P
<flocculant> I have NEVER hidden that ;)
<knome> lol
<flocculant> but seriously - sometimes I get random (seeming) workspace changes
<knome> mm
<flocculant> not new
<flocculant> spoke to ochosi about it ages ago
<knome> righto
<knome> don't remember
<knome> but i'm not ochosi :P
<flocculant> well no - you're knome :D
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> yes
<knome> i think
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> t'is odd - bit quick with mouse - and oop - other workspace
<flocculant> perhaps it is really specific - this mouse, this graphic card *shrug*
<flocculant> and - I don't have finger resting on wheel - so it's not rapid move = surreptitious movement of wheel 
<knome> surreptilian
<flocculant> no switch on wheel either - so it's not the mouse - when I saw it before must have been different mouse - had a swtich on that
<flocculant> knome: ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre: made some notes on the slideshow pad - love some feedback from you on those 
<bluesabre> flocculant: link to make things easier?
<flocculant> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1604-slideshow
<flocculant> bad bookmarking there boss :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: slide positioning notes 
<bluesabre> flocculant: I am horrible at bookmarking... firefox's awesome bar is great at searching for what I've looked at, chromium's is dismal
<flocculant> aah right 
<flocculant> still don't get on with chrom*
<bluesabre> it's faster for me and seems to do well with the absurd number of tabs I often have open
<bluesabre> that, and chromecast
<flocculant> and added thoughts to 'Other thoughts'
 * bluesabre nods
<bluesabre> but not as dangerously as Unit193 nods
<flocculant> less manically? 
 * flocculant quite likes the idea of morphing through a bunch of apps that 'team' uses to accomplish the same end result
<flocculant> though we would want to stick with the same background/fonts etc
<flocculant> surely we just need people to run 'their' preference to a screencast? 
<bluesabre> dunno, this is more of a marketing-ish thing
<flocculant> we could do similar for desktop customisation perhaps?
<flocculant> yea for sure :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: you come up with an idea - I'll say we can test it :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> everybody do screencasts in vbox 640x480 window
<flocculant> 2/3's of 'release'
<flocculant> I knew it would come in handy to be in release :D
<flocculant> yep
<bluesabre> hah
<flocculant> sort of think we should have been thinking about at xmas I suppose 
<flocculant> the main thing is getting some sort of nod from slickymaster and knome 
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> I can happily do some screencasts
<bluesabre> gotta wake 'em up
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> one's asleep - the other is Mediterranean
<flocculant> bah 
<flocculant> missed out the ... there :D
<Unit193> >_>
<flocculant> I know :(
<pleia2> so, struggling a lot with gnome-software
<pleia2> reported on iso tracker for xubuntu, on ubuntu the crash report is a known issue :\
 * flocculant picks up the tracker
<flocculant> pleia2: gimp?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> it's the first thing I always install
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> we all have something first :)
<pleia2> then google-chrome, which also has issues (need to apt-get update first) but that's not an ubuntu package, it's a .deb I download
<pleia2> so no report
 * flocculant does clementine ppa and ppa
<flocculant> bluesabre: and software returned to the menu it seems 
<flocculant> oh
<flocculant> newish install - guess I 'd really knackered the other one lol
<flocculant> I lost interwebs some places too :D
<pleia2> flocculant: oh, disks for iso testing is totally my new go-to, I think I'll write a blog post
<flocculant> pleia2: I assume that you saw the password prompt? 
<flocculant> gimp installed
<pleia2> flocculant: I did not
<flocculant> pleia2: ok - so I wonder if it's one of those ...
<flocculant> eg
<flocculant> here in Xubuntu land we can do things like set focus - if mouse is > there and password prompt shows up < there
<bluesabre> so not getting consistent anything with gs yet
<flocculant> pleia2: I'd guess that an apt-get install -f fixes it
<pleia2> flocculant: interesting, I'll do another iso test tomorrow and will test accordingly (I shut down the laptop I was testing on)
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmmm  - I had issues - not had any since moving of the knackered install
<flocculant> pleia2: oh
<flocculant> pleia2: in a vm ? if not - that would be a good test for this I think - standard settings
<pleia2> flocculant: no, physical hardware
 * flocculant always tests broken crap in a vm 
<flocculant> caught out loads :)
<flocculant> pleia2: clean install? 
<flocculant> doing one early tomorrow here
<pleia2> flocculant: clean install
<pleia2> I didn't know it would be broken :) and try to do all my iso tests on real hardware since I do so few x_x
<flocculant> pleia2: okey doke - doing one tomorrow am for a slideshow/install race :p
<flocculant> pleia2: I do really love you :D
<flocculant> I get tens of tests - I have my favourites amongst the ten :D
<flocculant> I'll check it out
<flocculant> it is fact it's never going to do some of the things USC does
<pleia2> flocculant: <3
 * flocculant had to reinstall - been running the broken one since the day after release
<flocculant> well - dist-upgrade one 
<flocculant> would have been quicker to reinstall tbh :D
<flocculant> pleia2: well - gimp installed ok - very very slow for some reason
<bluesabre> morning all
<knome> hmm..
<knome> i would not integrate a screencast in the slideshow
<knome> but we can definitely give them a spot on the website and more if people produce them
<bluesabre> knome: not sure if flocculant was suggesting integrating it into the slideshow
<bluesabre> but maybe having a screencast series
<bluesabre> not sure
<knome> i'm not sure either, i had a headache whole day and am a bit fuzzy now after all the painkillers and naps
<ochosi> bluesabre: generally i don't mind screencasts, they're a lot of work though if you wanna do them well
<ochosi> more so than screenshots and text, i'd say
<Unit193> Also need a deep, sexy voice.
<ochosi> :>
<pleia2> flocculant: added next meeting to the team calendar
<Unit193> \o/
<pleia2> also wrote http://princessleia.com/journal/2016/03/xubuntu-16-04-iso-testing-tips/
<akxwi-dave> nice one pleia2 , didn't know about gnome-disk.. been doing the same as you... installing it now.. :-)
<pleia2> helped someone already, wonderful :)
<tracker0> hi
<Unit193> Bye.
<knome> pleia2, did you social media that?
<pleia2> knome: yes
<pleia2> a bit
 * knome tries to decipher the message
<pleia2> retweeted on twitter, but don't have a great way of doing similar on other platforms
<knome> aha
<knome> "Xubuntu Marketing Lead Elizabeth Joseph gives a few tips for those who wish to test the Xubuntu ISOs [url]"
<pleia2> bah, titles
<knome> :D
<knome> "Somebody From the Internet gives a few tips..."
<pleia2> I said community member :)
<knome> titles are good because they give some sense for reliability
<pleia2> marketing lead doesn't really help my cred here
<pleia2> maybe could have said Xubuntu Team Member
<pleia2> next time :)
<knome> lol
<Unit193> Sure, but knome is right.  There's more of a reason to read $randomjoe with a grain of salt than you.  You should know a lot more about what you're talking.
<pleia2> one would hope :)
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks for calendar - nice testing blog :) could you edit your blog? I'd love to be the Xubuntu Qa lead instead of Ubuntu's :
<flocculant> long day - back tomorrow :)
<pleia2> flocculant: oops, fixed
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-27
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r495 Try harder to have square image-buttons in headerbars... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r496 Make popovers resemble normal menus more... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu.zesty/revision/1358
<knome> ugh, yeah
<knome> my vote is on blacklisting that
<ali1234> yeah, no thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-28
<Unit193> I quite agree.
<Unit193> knome: In that case, did you see my lament about base-files?
<knome> no
<bluesabre> Unit193, feel free to also blacklist that for us
<Unit193> Well that sounds nice, I'd pretty much keep the comment intact for reference.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, gonna bump -artwork? :P
<bluesabre> Unit193, yeah, need to
<bluesabre> also pending wp update
<Unit193> You'd know better than me about the icon themes and all.
<tracker4> ls
<tracker4> test
<tracker4> whois
<Unit193> Toodles.
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: hey, would be really nice if we could get libxfce4ui 4.13 into https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3, as it is e.g. a requirement for building xfce4-settings from master
<Unit193> It's in Zesty proper.
<ochosi> hmmm right
 * ochosi is still on yak
<Unit193> xfce4-settings is in there too. :>
<ochosi> gtk3?
<ochosi> in zesty?
<Unit193> PPA.
<bluesabre> ochosi, zesty is nice and stable, using it as a daily driver with no issues
<flocculant> ochosi: same here :)
<Unit193> It usually is pretty decent, our stuff is pretty much never complicated. :)
<flocculant> yea - to be fair I think most of the issues I find are mostly otherbuntu or I've broken something :D
<flocculant> still no idea why my otherzest refuses to play some mkv files - but once the partition is aa beta1 we'll never know :D
<akxwi-dave> can confirm here as well Zesty playing really nice as daily.. Day of Defeat:Source runs even better than before
<flocculant> knome: is this supposed to be dead now? http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq
<knome> flocculant, it
<knome> eh
<knome> flocculant, it's supposed to be at http://xubuntu.org/news/tag/faq/
<knome> if we link to the old address somewhere, feel free to fix or tell me to ;)
<flocculant> knome: was just picking up from #xubuntu
<flocculant> and if I'd found it I would of course have probably tried to fix it - if I could log in :)
<knome> :)
<ochosi> flocculant: do you still have a gtk2 panel around?
<ochosi> i'd just need a very quick test (<30s)
<flocculant> ochosi: umm not sire
<Unit193> No PPA contains the GTK3 panel.
<flocculant> ochosi: yea I have a gtk2 panel around :D
<flocculant> Unit193: thought so - but you were quicker than me and firefox and ppa list :p
<ochosi> so basically the test case is this: 1) go to the panel prefs, set hiding to "intelligently"
<ochosi> 2) then open a left-click menu (e.g. whiskermenu) and close it
<ochosi> (while keeping the mouse-cursor over the panel area and while having a window partly cover the panel so it would go back into hiding without mouse-focus)
<ochosi> 3) after closing the menu, is the panel still there or is it hidden?
<flocculant> umm - intelligently hiding isn't hiding at all 
<ochosi> it only hides when you have e.g. a maximized window
<ochosi> or when you move a window over the panel's location
<ochosi> it "ducks" :)
<flocculant> aah yea I remember now ...
<ochosi> yeah, it's a tricky feature
<flocculant> panel hides
<flocculant> oh
<flocculant> hang on - having trouble parsing what you said :D
<ochosi> take your time ;)
<flocculant> panel hides with some window half over panel and ending whatever left click panel menu
<flocculant> also - is panel supposed to unhide if desktop gets focus from window half over panel?
<flocculant> it unhides as soon as some 'new' window gets focus
<flocculant> or rather mouse over desktop fails to unhide but click on desktop does
<ochosi> ok, so:
<ochosi> 1) panel hides if the focused window covers it (even just partly)
<flocculant> ochosi: also see the same behaviour with a right click menu btw
<ochosi> 2) panel should remain visible if a menu is opened
<ochosi> 3) what happens if the focused window does not overlap the panel and you close the menu
<flocculant> if the focused window doesn't overlap - intellihide doesn't trigger 
<ochosi> for me it still flickers for a split-second when opening and closing whiskermenu
<ochosi> it remains there, but it flickers
<ochosi> not with every plugin though it seems
<ochosi> or the flicker isn't always visible is probably more accurate
<flocculant> definitley no flicker I can see
<ochosi> (i'm testing intellihide with gtk3, as you probably guessed)
<flocculant> which plugin do you see it with?
<flocculant> yea :) saw mention in xfce-dev
<flocculant> ftr I was using whisker, places, sound
<flocculant> ochosi: also, if it makes more sense to ping me for these things in #xfce so other people there can see the results then please do so :)
<ochosi> ok sure
<flocculant> I'm easy - you choose when it suits which channel :)
<ochosi> same here
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> andrzejr is luckily hanging out here too ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> so reading #xfce-d, seems that gtk3 works the same way as gtk2 ?
<ochosi> yeah, apart from the small flicker i noticed, it seems to work alright
<flocculant> ochosi: so which plugin(s) do you see it with? or any?
<ochosi> seems pretty much any
<ochosi> ok, now this is better.
<ochosi> 1) maximize a window
<ochosi> 2) bring a small window that does *not* cover the panel to the front/focus
<ochosi> 3) click to open a menu and then to close it
<ochosi> for me, the panel jumps out and in again in this case
<ochosi> very noticably in this setup
<flocculant> in that setup here - panel never hides because maximised window doesn't gain focus
<ochosi> right, then that's a regression of the gtk3 version
<flocculant> as soon as max window gets focus it hides - all seems to work as I'd expect
<flocculant> I guess only way for me to be sure I'm seeing the same is for me to build gtk3 panel 
<Unit193> andrzejr: â
<ochosi> flocculant: it's in git master now, so no weird branches or anything
<andrzejr> Unit193, which part â are you referring to?
<flocculant> ochosi: and point me at that then :p
<ochosi> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/
<ochosi> just build normally with ./autogen.sh && make && sudo make install
<ochosi> that'll make it go to /usr/local so you can cleanly uninstall
<ochosi> however, it will take down your panel settings
<ochosi> so be sure to back that up with xfpanel-switch before you try that
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> and before that - this is a clean install no git or anything ... 
<ochosi> (simply because the panel doesn't find your plugins, for that you would have to install with a different --prefix, but that's irrelevant for this test)
<flocculant> ochosi: to be sure I'm cloning git://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel ?
<ochosi> yup
<flocculant> oh lord here we go ...The required package ...
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> you need the xfce-gtk3 ppa
<ochosi> mostly
<ochosi> and apt-get build-dep xfce4-panel
<flocculant> got ppa, got build-deps
<flocculant> garcon-gtk3-1 it wants
<Unit193> libgarcon-2-0-dev from the ppa.
<flocculant> which I installed but it still complains 
<flocculant> Unit193: yea 
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24086547/
<flocculant> I'm lost there then :)
<flocculant> got past that install libxfce4ui stuffs and then libwnck stuff
<ochosi> indeed, that is odd
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<knome> hullooo bluesabre 
<bluesabre> uh oh
<Unit193> bluesabre: Didja look into ffe'ing notifyd? :P
<bluesabre> quick responses, you guys were lying in wait
<Unit193> ...Yes.
<knome> yes indeed
<bluesabre> Unit193, need to do that tonight... but a bit tied up the past few days
<bluesabre> *been
<knome> literally?
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Sure it's fine, just figured I'd aa...
<Unit193> ..sk.
 * bluesabre won't say
<knome> (:
<bluesabre> anything else I need to be aware of?
<bluesabre> knome, I'll happily beta test your wallpaper
<knome> haha
<Unit193> Nope.  I uploaded some plugin that had a bugfix release, uploaded something to PPA.
<bluesabre> cool
<knome> bluesabre, i might get something for you to test tomorrow :P
<bluesabre> knome, awesome, looking forward to it
<knome> but test, not upload ;)
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-01
<bluesabre> Unit193, look good to you? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/+bug/1668821
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1668821 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "[FFe] xfce4-notifyd 0.3.5 for zesty" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Sure, perhaps get someone from studio to ACK.
<bluesabre> Seemingly lubuntu as well
<Unit193> Eh..
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [shimmer-themes-debian] r18 Update packaging for Numix theme (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> Who are our normal contacts for those now?
<Unit193> wxl, krytarik, sakrecoer: â
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> going to wander off for a bit now
<Unit193> Cool, have fun.
<flocculant> ochosi: built gtk3 panel in vm - using default panel location I *do* see the panel flicker you talk of - but I need to be almost out of the top of the panel to trigger it - also confirm there not being able to move plugins
 * flocculant normally has panel in bottom left corner - shrunk down to 1 pixel auto resize
<flocculant> you must have wondered how I wasn't see something so pronounced ;)
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, it's just one more (minor) thing i have to fix
<Unit193> cyphermox: I don't suppose you'll be doing a late devscripts merge? :>  Some delta has been fixed upstream.
<bluesabre> flocculant, akxwi-dave, wxl, sakrecoer, if you would like to review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-notifyd/+bug/1668821 and potentially ack it for zesty :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1668821 in xfce4-notifyd (Ubuntu) "[FFe] xfce4-notifyd 0.3.5 for zesty" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> bluesabre: done by me
<bluesabre> suppose I'll go ahead and sub -release
<flocculant> best to I guess :)
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> Unit193 already did
<flocculant> sneaky :p
<flocculant> you only look a bit silly :)
 * bluesabre is happy with his dev team
<flocculant> :D
 * flocculant thinks he should install any gtk3 stuffs in the vm 
<Perigee> Hi everyone, I would like to help out with Xubuntu development. I'm thinking QA testing to start. Could someone help get me setup to do so?
<slickymasterWork> hello Perigee, the best place for you to start is to have a read at the QA section of the Xubuntu contributors documentation: http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-tester.html
<flocculant> hi Perigee - quick first question 
<Perigee> flocculant: Shoot
<flocculant> Perigee: can you test on hardware - running the dev version (which is pretty much completely stable now) or do you intend to test thing in a vm? 
<flocculant> this late in the cycle - I'd prefer people who are brave enough to do some real world testing :)
<Perigee> I can do either. I have a few different laptops I can test on, and at least one desktop, maybe two 
<flocculant> awesome
<flocculant> so best way to start is grab the daily and install that - we have a few official ppa's we use to
<Perigee> ok, what do I need to do about the ppa's?
<flocculant> for a bit more detail - you can look at the dev docs which slickymasterWork posted (there are actually 3 'tester' chapters - first one deals with setting up 
<Perigee> Ok will do
<flocculant> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/ chapters - 4 to 6
<flocculant> I'm pretty much around for a few hours now - akxwi-dave is the other qa lead - so either of us will be able to help with specifics - anyone is likely to help with less specific stuff
<Perigee> Great, I'll read through that and get the basics setup.
<flocculant> okey doke
<flocculant> Perigee: dual booting is a useful half-way - I kind of do that - if dual booting can be used to describe having 6 options :D
<Perigee> flocculant: Been there myself with the hexabooting at times. :) I remember back in my Gentoo days (2004 era or so) I had a huge list... just trying to get things to work
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> good choice of word there too :D
<cyphermox> Unit193: what would it bring us? I'm not sure it's that big of a deal...
<cyphermox> Unit193: tbf, before looking at the merge, we should fix that issue with the autopkgtests not passing on some architectures
<cyphermox> (because otherwise it wouldn't transition anyway)
<flocculant> knome akxwi-dave - updating of http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa at https://xubuntu.org/?p=4279&preview=true
<flocculant> knome: 5 attempts to login today before I had more than my profile - really must talk to IS about that :p
<knome> hmmh
<knome> right
<knome> that's weirdish
<knome> i'll try to debug it with you later today to see if $something helps
<flocculant> aah ok 
<knome> but it's not "much" i can do
<knome> and i believe there's not much more IS can do...
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> it worked first time before 
<flocculant> so 'something' has changed :D
<knome> heh
<knome> maybe
<knome> anyway, coffee time, bbl
<flocculant> :)
<Perigee> flocculant: I've gone through the doc chapters, signed up for the various resources. I just got a VM running the daily ISO + PPA's. Is there a rigid testing regimen that needs to happen each day/week and be reported somewhere as success/failure? I understand the bug reporting aspect.
<genii> mmm coffee
<flocculant> Perigee: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/369/builds alphabetical - right at the bottom
<flocculant> the only thing we do specifically is iso testing this cycle
<flocculant> sometimes we do package testing - mostly when dev wants something testing or it's lts cycle
<flocculant> hi genii :)
<Perigee> flocculant: Ok I see now. Is that what I should focus on then? Running those test procedures for the various ISO's and reporting via the tracker there? (On various hardware of course)
<genii> flocculant: Salutations
<flocculant> Perigee: to be honest - the greatest value for 'me' is people that run the dev version daily in use 
<flocculant> much of the iso stuff is common - so if there's an issue - it would be *buntu not just us
<flocculant> particular things like lock breaking are issues we keep seeing - but that's not likely to break again this cycle
<Perigee> flocculant: Got it, and doing that throughout my day would be reported just with bug reports if any are found, right?
<flocculant> yup - though check for dupes first 
<Perigee> flocculant: Ok then, makes sense.
<flocculant> Perigee: and check upstream https://bugzilla.xfce.org/ too
<flocculant> could be it's reported there and not on lp 
<flocculant> I tend to find issues just doing what I do normally ... 'mmm that didn't do that last week' 
<Perigee> Ok, I'll certainly get my main laptop running the daily
<flocculant> Perigee: that would be great :)
<flocculant> Perigee: this late in the cycle little is going to change - and oops moments are unlikely
<Perigee> flocculant: Ok, you should see me on the Launchpad team and elsewhere in Ubuntu-land as "crouthamela / Andrew Crouthamel".
<flocculant> if you stick around (which I hope) starting using the dev cycle on release+ 1 day like I do can see a few hiccups - hence the multi-boot scenario but rarely am I more than a short while outside
<flocculant> ok cool - nice to meet you :)
<Perigee> :)
<flocculant> but to be honest - the times that packages landing completely breaking are few now - changes in the way packages land and testing by canonical are different than they were I believe
<Perigee> So they're more careful now?
<flocculant> seems so
<knome> there have been several instances where uploading after freezes have been made much "harder" (for justified reasons), and i think this has started paying off
<flocculant> well - not perhaps careful, but proposed is usually disabled - you could break your system more often by using that repo if you wanted too
<flocculant> knome: ack
<knome> so developers aren't maybe any more careful, but the archive admins and release team are more cautious about late uploads ;)
<Perigee> ahh
<flocculant> I think in the last couple of cycles - lock has been problematic - but not unusable
<flocculant> more likely to see issues actually during install than anything else
<knome> flocculant, around?
<knome> slickymaster, around?
<flocculant> knome: yea
<flocculant> for a while - then bbl
<knome> oh
<knome> give me 5 mins
<flocculant> actually - bbl later noq, was waiting for M to return :)
<chatter29> hey guys
<knome> heh
<knome> hello chatter29 
<chatter29> allah is doing
<knome> flocculant, ok, so look at https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/contributor-docs/contributor/C/
<knome> flocculant, does the QA ToC structure make sense like this?
<knome> flocculant, and: would you rather see even more subsection titles there (under testing infra etc.) or is this good enough?
<akxwi-dave> :-) that looks good knome
<knome> oh obviously akxwi-dave needs to ack too
<knome> ok, i'll look into getting things sorted so that the different subsections can still have their own pages but appear as subitems like this
<akxwi-dave> actually it 
<knome> it what? :)
<akxwi-dave> looks really good
<knome> heh, ok, good good
<knome> i'm planning to land some more stuff on documentation, likely also subsections, so need to do this in order to keep things clean
<akxwi-dave> and evenin
<knome> hullo hullo!
<knome> ahh great, incremental config for contributors <3
<flocculant> knome: yea - as akxwi-dave says looks good 
<knome> now to beat docbook as long as it does what i want...
 * flocculant hands knome the beating stick
<knome> i have my hammer out...
<flocculant> possibbly too much :p
<knome> nah
<knome> i might need bigger tools
<Unit193> cyphermox: And ah fun.  Didn't see anything that'd fix the gpg2 fun.
<flocculant> knome: as far as subsections goes - the fewer the better imo
<knome> mhm
<knome> i've almost got what i want...
<knome> but not quite
<flocculant> :)
<knome> hmph.
<knome> now i'm at least getting the subsections i want printed
<knome> (and nothing more)
<knome> how important do you think it is to be able to get the subsections into separate pages?
<flocculant> to print?
<knome> like, http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-testing.html
<flocculant> oh you mean like when dev finishes and docs starts? I'd ay quite
<knome> nope, the subsections of *qa*
<knome> i understand this will be quite a long page if they are all in one...
<knome> basically, whole qa stuff would appear on one html page
<flocculant> mmm - better if they do - but *I* would be more likely to print the whole of it - others maybe not
<knome> i'll look into it then
<slickymaster> am now, knome :)
<slickymaster> evening all
<knome> oki
<knome> so basically see the discussion with flocculant aboce
<knome> above too
<slickymaster> already saw
<slickymaster> and I do agree with flocculant 
<knome> above too
<knome> hmm, oops
<slickymaster> regarding avoiding large html pages
<slickymaster> and do +1 your subsections idea, knome 
<knome> hmm, so every sect1 should be a chunk...
<slickymaster> not sure I understand what you mean, knome 
<slickymaster> to what do you refer by sect1?
<knome> you don't have to
<knome> i'm just saying it aloud for my personal reference later :P
<slickymaster> lol
<flocculant> knome: not sure how the sub-sectioning is working but Dispute Resolution on strategy should be a section - not sub-section of development
<flocculant> unless we think dev cause all the issues :p
<knome> well that's a content issue, not a technical one
<knome> i'm mostly poking the technical stuff today
<flocculant> assumed as much - just making sure now rather than in 6 months :D
<knome> actually i think the issue is just that "Development" is a clumsy section title; it should be more like "contributing" or sth
<knome> because if you look at the content/context, it all is general for everything, not just code contributions
<flocculant> or communication - cos that's what the majority is about - then sub-section comms would need another name
<flocculant> bluesabre: did I say that seek in parole was a bit broken? 
<flocculant> knome: next time I'm trying to login to x.org I'll grab utc time too - then I'll go see IS and report it - having an actual time should help
<flocculant> in the meantime - I'm off - night all 
<slickymaster> night flocculant 
<cyphermox> Unit193: if there's something you need though, it's a different story
<knome> because if you look at the content/context, it all is general for everything, not just code contributions
<Unit193> cyphermox: Better handling of buildinfo files (for when one is building Debian packages) and git-deborig looked interesting, but not enough for you to drop everything else for 'em.
<knome> oops again
<knome> i'll move the irc window elsewhere...
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-02
<Unit193> bluesabre: I/we missed another xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin release, huh.
<bluesabre> Unit193, hard to keep up with that one
<Unit193> Translation+memleak, grabbed it.
<bluesabre> flocculant, how so?
<Unit193> You keep doing the important stuff, I'll keep the others off your back. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193, :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: dragging on time bar with mouse works, selecting somewhere along the bar with the mouse doesn't, > mouse key tries to work
<flocculant> thought I mentioned it when you were asking about bug 1337786
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1337786 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1337786). The error has been logged
<flocculant> bug 1667786 even
<ubottu> bug 1667786 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole 0.9.0 crashes when skipping any video" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1667786
<knome> do we have any reason not to bump the documentation license up to CC-BY-SA 4.0 (from 2.5)?
<knome> aiui, https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/licensing-considerations/compatible-licenses/ confirms that this should be ok in terms of license compatibility, but please correct me if i'm wrong...
<slickymasterWork> checking it knome 
<Unit193> https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2014/04/msg00032.html in regards to 3.0 vs 4.0.  Does the license say "or later"?  If we're free to, 2.5 is something to get away from.
<knome> does not
<knome> are translations considered contributions?
<knome> i mean in the sense of licenses
<slickymasterWork> knome, since we'll continue to distribute all the changes made under the same license as the original I don't see why not
<slickymasterWork> I believe they are, knome 
<knome> right, so if we needed to ask contributors for permission, that'd be a lot of people
<Unit193> Yes, the headers have "Same license as the orig work"
<Unit193> (But might be worth it, considering: https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2015/11/msg00001.html - https://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses#Creative_Commons_Attribution_Share-Alike_.28CC-BY-SA.29_v4.0)
<knome> yes what?
<knome> we need to contact everybody or not? :)
<slickymasterWork> from what I read in https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2015/11/msg00001.html it does seem we have
<knome> let's take the discussion here...
<knome> practically, what are our options?
<knome> do we send a message to each person on the list by Unit193 via LP/email?
<knome> or would it be "just fine" if we sent a general message on the devel mailing list?
<slickymasterWork> what if some of the emails are no longer active?
<knome> (potentially explicitly (C)CC'ing people with emails)?
<knome> well their launchpad accounts are active
<slickymasterWork> that would mean we'd have to put translations on halt
<knome> well, not really
<slickymasterWork> right, but do we really NEED their explicit acceptance?
<slickymasterWork> in the form of a reply, that is?
<knome> by Unit193s interpretation, yes
<knome> i'm still looking at https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/licensing-considerations/compatible-licenses/
<knome> and speciically the point
<knome> Version 2.0 and 2.5
<knome> Your contributions to adaptations of BY-SA 2.0 or 2.5 materials may only be licensed under:
<knome> The license used for the original work, or a later version of that BY-SA license.
<knome> even more specifically: "OR A LATER VERSION OF THAT BY-SA LICENSE"
<knome> because for 1.0, they explicitly say there is no compatibility mechanism
<knome> so it would be different if we were porting from that...
<slickymasterWork> that was the reason behind me saying tha since we'll continue to distribute all the changes made under the same license as the original I don't see why we couldn't bump the documentation license
<knome> pleia2, input plz?
<slickymasterWork> and it would be easier to get acceptances/replies from the documentation contributors than getting them from the translators since the later are a larger universe
<knome> i don't mind the work to send a message to each translator as well
<knome> i just don't think it will be very fruitful
<slickymasterWork> and that's where the problem is, knome 
<slickymasterWork> do we have the need of an explicit acceptance from them?
<knome> so before we dig deeper in any of this, can we say "CC-BY-SA 4.0 or later" if we update the license?
<knome> ianal
<slickymasterWork> ianal?!
<knome> i am not a lawyer
<slickymasterWork> lol... same here
<slickymasterWork> "... can we say "CC-BY-SA 4.0 or later" if we update the license?" <- no clue
<knome> "If you take a work under BY-NC-SA 2.0 and make something new from it, for example, you can re-publish under BY-NC-SA Japan, or BY-NC-SA 7.4 (when that comes)"
<knome> from https://creativecommons.org/2004/05/25/announcingandexplainingournew20licenses/
<knome> so if you are free to create a new piece of work with the contributions by people A,B,C under BY-NC-SA 2.5, why wouldn't you be able to relicense the original work as well?
<knome> (and yeah, the same goes for BY-SA: Similarly, a derivative made from a work under BY-SA 2.0 may be published only under BY-SA 2.0, BY-SA (iCommons license), or BY-SA 9.1 ...)
<slickymasterWork> from your link knome: "Version 2.0 licenses that feature the Share Alike requirement now clarify that derivatives may be re-published under one of three types of licenses: (1) the exact same license as the original work; (2) a later version of the same license as the original work; (3) an iCommons license that contains the same license elements as the original work (e.g. BY-SA-NC, as defined in Section 1 of each license). The ve
<slickymasterWork> "...The version 1.0 licenses required that derivative be published under the exact same license only. "
<knome> indeed
<slickymasterWork> but like everything legal, it's all too kafkian :P
<knome> my take is to send an email to devel noting of this intention to upgrade (and we can send messages to LP accounts) and see what comes
<knome> but i'd also like to hear a comment from pleia2 
<Unit193> knome: It's not a problem to just bump it.
<knome> Unit193, this information is based on...? :)
<slickymasterWork> what about emailing canonical legal asking for a clarifying view on this? 
<knome> erghh :)
<knome> that might take a while
<slickymasterWork> Jessica Kearns is helpful with some things regarding UF
<knome> i'm not opposed to being in touch with them if you feel that's a good idea
<knome> but i'd like to hear what changed Unit193's mind too :P
<slickymasterWork> lack of sleep and too much coffee, perhaps?
<Unit193> "You may distribute, publicly display, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, ***a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License***, or a Creative Commons iCommons license that contains the same License Elements as this License (e.g. Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 Japan)."
<knome> oki
<Unit193> https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/legalcode legal text is fun.
<knome> so as i kind of interpreted from the beginning
<knome> yeah, i read that too
<Unit193> **You may distribute,**
<Unit193> As I said: Does the license say "or later"?   this one does! :D
<knome> oh
 * Unit193 is not a lawyer.
<knome> the *license*
<Unit193> But anyway, that's how I read it.
<Unit193> Nice.
<knome> the thing i find the most amusing is
<knome> that an entity that creates new licenses says this:
<knome> No. Creative Commons is not a law firm and does not provide legal advice or legal services.
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> i completely understand that, but it's just so funny :P
<Unit193> "Well, you kind of do.." :P
<knome> yep
<flocculant> bluesabre: is there actually any real point in reporting a thunar issue on launchpad? 
<bluesabre> flocculant, potentially... but would be nice to clean up the issues we have once/if we get the SRU moving
<flocculant> so for the moment I won't make sure something is in 2 places
<flocculant> just confirmed xfce 13364
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13364 in general "After moving files, a Ghost file sometimes remains in Detail View" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13364
<bluesabre> fun
<flocculant> mmm - but at least it stays up :)
<bluesabre> sounds like it should be an easy fix
<bluesabre> but its thunar
<flocculant> hah
<bluesabre> flocculant, I might have found another one, noticed yesterday
<bluesabre> if thunar is watching a directory where there are lots of changes, say "Downloads" when you're grabbing media files, it freezes at some point
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll be trying to clean up thunar bugzilla 
<flocculant> bluesabre: oh - I just saw that on lp
<bluesabre> oh nice
<flocculant> well sort of at least > bug 1643178
<ubottu> bug 1643178 in thunar (Ubuntu) " When a folder is displayed where there are big files that are growing, it locks" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1643178
<flocculant> bluesabre: ftr - I've not seen that, but it would be something I would likely have hit
<triode13> i'm new here. i've just set up KVM and performed an Install (entire disk) with the Zest daily. no bugs. should i report results?
<Perigee> triode13:  Thanks to flocculant training me yesterday I know the answer to this! You can login with your Ubuntu One account here and record your result at the bottom of the page: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/369/builds
<knome> triode13, Perigee: nice to see new faces around here :)
<knome> welcome!
<triode13> oops. didn't realize my Launchpad id was not triode13. changed my Launchpad id from 'fishski13' to 'triode13'. 
<knome> we welcome all kinds of launchpad id's ;)
<Perigee> lol, yeah who took Perigee on Launchpad?! *shakes fist*
<Perigee> knome: \o/
<knome> slickymasterWork, akxwi-dave: https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/contributor-doc-improvements/+merge/318780
<knome> you also should have mail regarding this
<slickymasterWork> yes
<slickymasterWork> will review it later at home, knome 
<knome> sure
<knome> fwiw, the documentation team basic stuff is from a document that i wrote for jjfrv8 back when he was pondering if he wanted to take the doc lead hat :)
<slickymasterWork> ack
<knome> aaaand now i can clean that file from temp.knome.fi :P
<slickymasterWork> :)
<knome> (if you're wondering, yes, that was the source for all the motivation to get this update done :P)
<knome> it kind of got out of hand, i admit it
<knome> would've been easy to hit and run
<Perigee> Hey since you're talking docs, I was curious if there was any interest in video training for Xubuntu. I thought I saw mention of it somewhere in the past few days on the site. My side-job is creating IT video training courses, so I thought I would offer.
<knome> Perigee, absolutely, if there are people who are willing to create the content
<Perigee> knome: Is there a wishlist/outline of what you want? Or just go through the written Xubuntu/XFCE docs and make videos for each piece?
<knome> no, that would probably be the first thing to figure out
<knome> not sure if we want videos for exactly the same kind of stuff, because text and video are very different formats and enable different kinds of things to be done
<knome> you'll want to talk with slickymasterWork (the doc lead) and pleia2 (the marketing lead) about that
<Perigee> Yeah, following a rigid "here is how you change a setting" document can get boring. Most of the stuff I do is teaching concepts + a demo, which is a bit different in style.
<knome> and starting a discussion thread in the devel mailing list can produce some results as well
<knome> another question we need to tackle is the "where"
<knome> we'll want to create some kind of official account if we do "official" videos
<Perigee> Yeah, I assume an official Xubuntu Youtube channel would be a good start
<knome> (we can definitely give you the control over that too, along with somebody from the team)
<knome> yeah - that's one of the questions - youtube, vimeo, or something else ;)
<Perigee> Ok cool, well if slickymasterWork wants to chime in at all, I'm here all day. I'll get around to sending an email to the mailing list as well.
<slickymasterWork> the idea wouldn't be to flood the potential venue of the videos with loads of material, Perigee 
<knome> i use both (and any) to consume, but i don't know well enough to know which one would suit us better
<slickymasterWork> and thanks for volunteering to make them
<knome> oh, also, we'll likely want to use some consistent artwork with them - you'll want to poke me when you need some
<Perigee> Sure, I know XFCE has specifics for screenshots, so I'm sure we would want the same
<slickymasterWork> preferably those videos would demonstrate a wider scope of the nuclear use of Xubuntu and core Xfce apps
<knome> for the configuration, probably just default settings
<knome> (unless the videos cover changing them, obviously you should do that then ;))
<knome> but i was meaning some intro artwork - and the video cover art
<knome> or whatever it is called
<slickymasterWork> Perigee, potential candidates for videos can be Catfish, LightDM GTK+ Greeter, Whiskermenu, LightDM GTK+ Greeter Settings, MenuLibre, Mugshot
<slickymasterWork> another potential series could be done about contributing
<slickymasterWork> QA testing, and documentation
<slickymasterWork> something like setting up a launchpad account, submitting merge proposals, etc
<Perigee> Makes sense
<slickymasterWork> Perigee, like knome already stated starting a discussion thread in the devel mailing list should be one of your first steps so everyone in the team can also chime in
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [contributor-doc-improvements] r628 Merge flocculant's improvements for the contributor document... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [contributor-doc-improvements] r630 Improvements for contributor docs:... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<flocculant> thanks triode13 - thanks also to Perigee for actually taking some notice of me :)
<flocculant> Perigee: also see work items here http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/spec=xubuntu-z-qa
 * flocculant notes not invited to the contributor doc merge party so will wait until it's been merged and approved before saying anything 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> flocculant, meh :P
<knome> flocculant, feel free to comment if there is anything
<flocculant> I assume it's the same as it was yesterday when I acked it :)
<knome> close to
<knome> i mean, i've poked around a *bit* but mostly things that are just minutiae
<knome> flocculant, otherwise important is hard to define, as it means many things, amongst others important because it's highlighted on the slideshow or because it's a feature that is particularly complex or something else
<knome> flocculant, will propose this:
<knome> flocculant, The documentation team works with the developers to ensure any new features that are part of the core functionality of the operating system are covered in the documentation. In addition, the documentation team makes sure features highlighted in the installer slideshow or any other marketing material are appropriately documented.
<flocculant> knome: yea I realise that
<knome> it's mostly the "marketing" stuff, anything that's "xubuntu-like" could already be considered "core"
<flocculant> ack - wfm
<flocculant> assuming that replaces the first sentence :)
<knome> yes
<flocculant> k
<knome> also: When any documented features are removed or changed, the team makes sure the documentation does not refer to any removed functionality
<knome> replacing again
<flocculant> yep - wfm again
<flocculant> :)
<knome> next one: The team should be aware of changes to new releases, particularly on LTS releases and potential SRUs, as those might affect documentation.
<flocculant> yep - wfm again
<knome> right, the essential issue
<knome> the packages that only exist in xubuntu are essential as well
<knome> maybe s/essential/important/ and add essential to the first one?
<knome> actually, i'd do the following
<knome> first title == Essential: Packages that only exist in Xubuntu
<knome> second == Important: Used by Xubuntu
<knome> third == $something_else: Mainly built for and used by Xubuntu
<flocculant> yup - I'll not say it again :p
<knome> does that work though?
<knome> and any suggestions for the last one?
<flocculant> that last is really just wording - the other way round it looks a bit odd
<knome> gmm
<knome> hmm too
<knome> maybe we should merge the last two?
<knome> so i'll do that, remove the prefixes and we'll see how that looks
<flocculant> yea I think used and important could merge
<knome> yep
<knome> done that already
<knome> now let me push the new rev
<flocculant> knome: did you do Documentation String Freeze prior to uploading ?
<knome> yep
<flocculant> k
<knome> was happy with the new proposal so
<flocculant> yea - just checking before you new rev :D
<knome> and done
<knome> also see slight wording change on "used by" - no essential there eitehr :P
<knome> either either
<flocculant> knome: thanks - I commented but didn't approve - just in case you can only have 1 approve :D
<flocculant> bbl
<Perigee> flocculant: 10-4
<knome> flocculant, you can have as many approves as there are reviewers
<knome> had to jump off in a rush
<knome> and now off again, bbl today
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [contributor-doc-improvements] r631 Improvements based on Kev's comments on MP #318780... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: did you see ping yesterday on the new page at x.org?
<knome> now we only need slowmasterWork's approval
<Unit193> knome: And certainly nice to see new faces, yours is getting old!
<knome> indeed!
 * knome tries to hide the wrinkles
<flocculant> knome: and did you look at the page on x.org?
<knome> which one again? :)
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - always good to see new faces
<flocculant> knome: the newest one created by me - when it was really new when I pinged the url
<knome> i might have seen it but forgotten
<flocculant> before today - which would make it old :p
<knome> oh right, yes, the new page (which is an article) looks good
<knome> maybe s/iso/ISO/
<flocculant> yea - isn't meant to be an article - but to replace the qa page 
<knome> the tracker link seems to have one " too many
<knome> yep, i gathered
<flocculant> bluesabre you noticed this connectivity checking chatter on the u-dev list? 
<flocculant> Unit193: ^^ 
<knome> i think Unit193 even commented about it
<knome> i really think we should blacklist that feature
<knome> 01:35  knome: my vote is on blacklisting that
<knome> 02:26  bluesabre: Unit193, feel free to also blacklist that for us
<flocculant> I did read it - then forgot - but remembered when I see the rt for it wondering IS can handle that
<flocculant> aah cool - I read that as well 
<knome> rt?
<knome> IS?
<flocculant> .ubuntu.com
<knome> yeah
<knome> i don't think those are related at all :P
<Unit193> flocculant, knome: I haven't only because it doesn't exist yet, but we're gonna blacklist it.
<flocculant> was just going to try logging in at x.org and ready to create a ticket
<knome> Unit193, ack
<flocculant> Unit193: k
<flocculant> knome: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=29600
<knome> oh...
<flocculant> knome: logged in first time - I think browser knew I was at rt.u.c and told x.org
<knome> ;)
<flocculant> anyway changed iso and "
<knome> great
<knome> let's get akxwi-dave have a look at it
<knome> then we can publish imo
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: https://xubuntu.org/?p=4279&preview=true
<Unit193> flocculant: Dang, David is emailing them like they're friends.
<flocculant> talking to Perigree made me do that
<knome> who?
<flocculant> Unit193: ha - I think I know what you mean :)
<flocculant> knome: I suspect all the forum tickets 
<knome> oh
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah, i've seen them...
<knome> that's the most you see when you log in :P
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=3025 heh.
<slickymaster> evening
<knome> 'lo
<slickymaster> well Unit193, after more than seven months dealing with unresolved UF issues, I started to follow the tone of their own mails
<slickymaster> ok knome https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/xubuntu-docs/contributor-doc-improvements/+merge/318780 â approved 
<knome> so what i'm doing is acutally just pushing to main, not merging
<knome> aaand that's done
<slickymaster> great
<slickymaster> thanks
<knome> now feel free to extend the documentation documentation :P
<slickymaster> :P
 * Unit193 waits for the merge proposal about merge proposals.
<knome> ok, next things next
<knome> eg. update the xubuntu brand assets package
<krytarik> knome: I'm sure this is an oversight, but why not put 'xubuntu-docbook-xhtml-contributor.xsl' into 'contributor-docs/libs/' rather than 'libs-common/'?
<knome> laaaaaaaaaazy
<knome> i'll likely get it fixed the next time i touch that file - i'm pretty sure that's sooner than later...
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> helloooooooo!
<slickymaster> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi knome 
<bluesabre> hi slickymaster 
<bluesabre> no bananas yet
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> nope
<knome> or wallpapers
<bluesabre> >.<
<slickymaster> but maÃ±anas in no time
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi ochosi 
<knome> all peoples!
<bluesabre> woo!
<slickymaster> hi ochosi 
<bluesabre> one week to UI freeze
<bluesabre> two weeks to doc string freeze
<knome> yep
<knome> slickymaster, time to schedule the next meeting
<slickymaster> thinking of net week
<slickymaster> * next
<slickymaster> I'll be in Lisbon from monday and tuesday
<slickymaster> s/and/to
<slickymaster> maybe wednesday
<Unit193> Got anything interesting for the meeting?
<slickymaster> the upcoming UI and doc string freezes is something
<knome> yeah, but really just the general
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-03
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  nope  cant see anything about a new page at x.org (I think ircloud is missing some posts)
<akxwi-dave> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/TZfftRqs/
<akxwi-dave>  but cannot see what the  subject is to  look at....   
<akxwi-dave> Really going to have to have words with irccloud..  I'm paying for a service that is messing up over the past week  :-(
<slickymasterWork> give them hell, akxwi-dave X-(
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: it's not published yet ... https://xubuntu.org/?p=4279&preview=true
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  sorry showing page not found
<Unit193> ...So I bzr pull on the docs, and it royally screwed itself over.
<Unit193> I hate bzr, can we move to hg or git?
<slickymasterWork> I wouldn't mind git, Unit193 
<Unit193> Thankgoodness for logs and long lasting pastebins!
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Docs fail to validate.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/OnRRPKk9b6myofF8Eajs/
<slickymasterWork> Pasi screw them yesterday :P
<Unit193> `make test` is your friend. :D
<slickymasterWork> tell him that
<knome> huh?
<knome> :P
<knome> i did check they build, but i'll look into it then...
<knome> sigh sigh
<slickymasterWork> bad knome :P
<knome> oh, sect1 can't have sections?
<knome> bah
<knome> oh man
<knome> ookay, let's have a look then
<knome> [M @r[M#@r[B[B[B[B[B[M"JK[M#JK[M"KK[M#KK[M"MN[M#MN[M"MO[M#MO[M"MO[M#MOyeaaaah
<knome> who[B[A[B[B[C[D
<knome> hmm.
<knome> something WEIRD happened
<knome> anyway, i fixed it \o/
<knome> well, 50% of it
<slickymasterWork> LOL
<knome> i mean, the bigger part
<knome> now why isn't the doc part validating??
<knome> Unit193, any reason we don't do the validating on make?
<knome> aha, ok, now i understand
<knome> if you use <simplesect>, no data can follow it within the same parent
<knome> mh, ok, let's just do that for now
<knome> and a fix is in the main branch soon
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: sorry - thought you knew to login :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [zesty] r632 Fix invalidity created by the reorganization:... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<knome> ok, wrote a script to update the contributor docs online and running it now
<knome> ok, done
<knome> there was some weird problem, i think bzr thought i had the latest revision locally already...
<knome> locally being on the dev server of course
<flocculant> anyone got a zesty install they could try creating an archive in using file-roller?
<flocculant> not working on daily - tried going back a couple of versions locally too
<flocculant> nvm - pebkac
<Unit193> knome: That's now really how you do Makefiles, you'll be running it twice on builds.
<knome> unless you do it like the style.
<knome> i guess we could just have a target for validating in make
<knome> or document that you need to check validity even if the documentation builds
<Unit193> We already made it easier by setting up the calls in `make test` :D
<knome> ooh!
<knome> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-04
<knome> helloooooo krytarik (:
<krytarik> Hellooo!
<knome> i didn't move the file yet, but at least i fixed the validity errors Unit193 mentioned ;)
 * Unit193 moves knome.
<knome> where am i moved again?
<knome> re: moving, i've moved a good chunk of my weight away from myself ;)
<krytarik> !conga-rats | knome
<ubottu> knome: â« samba rumba bueno la conga cha cha cha
<knome> ta ta
<knome> that was supposed to go to -ot, but whatever!
<pleia2> just catching up - yeah, people do like videos
<pleia2> I don't know what exactly though, we should brainstorm some things if Perigee wants to do some
<pleia2> also re: licensing, I'd include a note to the devel list about bumping it even though Unit193 accurately points out that license does make room for doing it
 * pleia2 back to conference things
<akxwi-dave> I agree, I've tried to do some in the past few months but my attempts were woeful.. as Perigee does it for a living.. why not use that experience
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/856798 - https://bugs.debian.org/856774
<ubottu> Debian bug 856798 in xfdesktop4 "xfdesktop4: application menu on right click broken after editing launcher via menulibre" [Normal,Open]
<ubottu> Debian bug 856774 in xfce4-equake-plugin "xfce4-equake-plugin: Fails to download data, needs to use https" [Important,Open]
<ochosi> bluesabre: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v3.22.2
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-05
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-equake-plugin 1.3.8.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-equake-plugin-1-3-8-1-released-tp48947.html (by Jeroen van Aart)
<knome> so we're kind of ready with the wallpaper (will still sleep a good nights sleep before pushing it to the repositories), but for anybody interested: https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/wall-1704/final.png
<krytarik> ..Now I can really value the cow udders. :P
<knome> because you see what here? :P
<krytarik> They're poking my eyes!
<knome> ahahahah!
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-26
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r653 Add the thunar-print script for uca... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r654 Make sure to only show print for appropriate mime-types... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> 1. Where is $RANDOM set?  2. d/copyright needs updating.  3. This is great if a user installs the script itself, but IMO not the most ideal from a GUI that's a bit more default.  Sure, we ship those by default, not entirely sure about the convert/all image formats, but personally I'd do more checking and error messages with zenity.
<Unit193> 2 is required, 1 is very important as if it's not set, TmpFolder="/tmp/" is used and the rm -rf call would be bad.
<Unit193> Also, mkdir -p is a cool thing.  Personally, I'd just source out to mktemp.
<Unit193> '$*' â '$@'
<Unit193> Ah right, bash thing.  Eh..
<flocculant> #join launchpad
<flocculant> sigh
<ochosi> Unit193: wanna help/update the PR/branch?
<ochosi> and thanks for the thorough review
<Unit193> I'm not sure I'd consider that, just a reading over.
<ochosi> well still, all valid and helpful points
<Unit193> And pretty sure only the author of the PR can. :)
<ochosi> 2 will be fairly easy, i can do that tonight
<ochosi> 1 too
<ochosi> and with respect to 3 i'd say we improve it as we go
<Unit193> (Example would be a which on the application, then zenity --warning --text "Unable to launch desired operation as $foo is not installed." if not installed.)
<ochosi> true. even though libreoffice is installed by default, ppl could remove it and still want to print
<knome> mhall119, i have the code for the wordpress plugin if you like
<knome> mhall119, it's slightly hardcoded but that's probably not a problem at this point ;)
<mhall119> knome: thanks!
<mhall119> I'm finishing a wallpaper contest today and would have loved to have a ready-made solution
<mhall119> does it handle the voting process too?
<krytarik> Yes, it does.
<knome> mhall119, absolutely
<knome> mhall119, i'll get back to you in an hour or so
<knome> mhall119, i tried to send you email but gmail didn't let me attach .js files, so here it is: https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/wallpaper-contest/
<knome> i will push it to a launchpad repository sooner or later - i'll let you know when
<ochosi> flocculant, Unit193: any idea if we have zenity installed by default?
<flocculant> ochosi: pretty sure not
<ochosi> alrighty, thanks!
<ochosi> i'll just send a notification instead
<flocculant> ochosi: hang fire
<flocculant> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/358621886/buildlog_ubuntu_bionic_amd64_xubuntu_BUILDING.txt.gz
<flocculant> shows it - thought I had to install it here for something
<ochosi> oh :)
<ochosi> well nvm, i still prefer the notification
<ochosi> especially because i'm not sure what the dialog should offer as actions (at least not yet)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> as long as notifications can be disabled I'm never too bothered about it :D
<ochosi> Unit193: added copyright and improved error handling in the script (especially for libreoffice). if cups is not installed and a user wants to print then...
<ochosi> flocculant: it only sends a notification if libreoffice is not installed and the "print" command in thunar fails
<flocculant> ochosi: I assume not here - as all notifications should be off ;0
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> Unit193: if i add error handling for lpr too i guess i can just as well rewrite that script, because all that is still there from the original author is the bash case statement :D
<ochosi> Unit193: then we can scrap the MIT license
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r655 Update d/copyright to reflect MIT license... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r656 Improve print-script by checking for LO... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> I'd say zenity is seeded, but you already figured it out.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-27
<mhall119> thanks knome!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.3.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0-3-5-released-tp50730.html (by Sean Davis-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r651 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<ochosi> Unit193: just fyi, i'll really rewrite the script and drop the MIT license
<ochosi> it'll make things easier for us and the script will be better too
<Unit193> I really don't mind MIT.
<Unit193> ochosi: But glad the review was helpful, then. :P
<Unit193> That guy that was in here the other day hit LP #1749199
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1749199 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "purge conf files on removal of upstart (was session fails to start after an upgrade from xenial to bionic)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1749199
<Unit193> xorg (1:7.7+19ubuntu5) bionic; urgency=medium
<Unit193>   * Cleanup upstart Xsession.d files, when upstart is removed, but not
<Unit193>     purged, and thus breaking graphical login after upgrades. LP: #1749199
 * flocculant rebuilds our bionics to see what happens (eg do 'we' get) the minimal install option
<flocculant> phew - we don't appear to see that option on the installer - though now I look at the ubiquity changelog I remember it needing to be a list we provide
<knome> mhall119, i updated the archive for the wallpaper contest plugin; with this new version, i've fixed a regression with vote result showing; vote results are now shown most-votes-first as should
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome, flocculant, Unit193: let's drop gtk-theme-config asap from 18.04. as we're not happy with the new approach i tried i'd say it's better to drop it now than to forget about it and ship it by accident
<ochosi> (just from the seed would be enough)
<knome> ochosi, ack.
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome, flocculant, Unit193: less talk, more MR action :) https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.bionic/+merge/340055
<knome> ochosi, :)
<ochosi> please approve there
<knome> done
<ochosi> ty
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<bluesabre> will pull that in tonight
<ochosi> bluesabre: kewl, thanks. i also re-did the whole print-script thing, it's ready for merging now
<ochosi> i ironed out a few of the quirks Unit193 mentioned
<ochosi> fwiw we can still bugfix/improve it after FF, but i'd rather get it in now
<knome> team has mail
<ochosi> knome: what's the easiest way to see all contributions plus author info?
<ochosi> just out of curiosity i'd sometimes like to know who submitted what
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r652 Add thunar custom action for file printing... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r653 Add author information to thunar scripts... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<knome> ochosi, the idea is that you can't easily see author info...
<knome> ochosi, ideally, you can't see that at all
<knome> because that shouldn't be a deciding matter, right?
<ochosi> i only ask because i asked a work colleague to contribute and now i'd like to see if he did
<ochosi> and i don't wanna necessarily ask him about it again because it feels a little invasive
<knome> right, i'll PM...
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-28
<Unit193> I think I'd prefer complete removal, there's also Debian #886068
<ubottu> Debian bug 886068 in src:gtk-theme-config "gtk-theme-config: Depends on gconf" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/886068
<Unit193> ochosi: I'm going to presume you're using 'cat' in an effort for readability?
<Unit193> I still think use of notifyd here is a bit odd, but not an actual issue.
<bluesabre> back now
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hi Unit193 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<Unit193> I'm still alive...
<bluesabre> That's a relief
<Unit193> How about you?
<bluesabre> A-OK
<bluesabre> Feeling pretty good about where we are dev-wise for Bionic
<bluesabre> Unit193: see anything wrong with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1746556 and adding 50-xubuntu.conf (or 50-xubuntu-numlock.conf)?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1746556 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu needs a better num lock handler at login and during user session" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<Unit193> /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/60-xubuntu.conf already exists, fyi.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, but I think that one needs to run at 50... I tried inserting at 60 and numlockx didn't fire
<bluesabre> or maybe it just needs to run before 60-lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf
<Unit193> Wondered.
<bluesabre> Thoughts?
<Unit193> I'm wondering why my numlock is always on.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> bios setting maybe?
<Unit193> Likely, though can't even use the keyboard until after grub. :P
<bluesabre> That's pleasant
<bluesabre> BIOS or UEFI?
<Unit193> BIOS.
<bluesabre> Darn
<bluesabre> I've had good luck with using reFind to get my keyboard working at that stage of the boot
<bluesabre> Otherwise it will work if I plug it in a bunch before the timer expires
<bluesabre> But that won't help you :)
<bluesabre> Maybe BURG
<bluesabre> Also, thinking about building pa-plug in xubuntu with the wnck support
<bluesabre> It primarily improves Spotify integration, which we favor enough to have it in a blog post https://xubuntu.org/news/my-media-manager-cloud/
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 : numlock is always on for me in bios - I always have to muck about with numlockx, I put it in /etc/lightdm.d though
<Unit193> flocculant: To be clear, I'm just saying "WFM, not sure why or how" :P
<flocculant> yea for sure I understand - ftr in the past ochosi said exactly the same thing :D
<Unit193> BUt you adding it every time means to me that it's decently tested for quirks. ;)
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> I did used to put it in /usr then I changed - otherwise wfm :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: marked xenial ready - doubt we'll get anyone else looking now
<Unit193> Debian 846260, though, it's dead and gone upstream.
<ubottu> Debian bug 846260 in numlockx "numlockx: 'Homepage' URL dead" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/846260
<flocculant> do we need to worry? or do we need to worry after bionic? 
<Unit193> I wouldn't worry, just something to know.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> probably been in that state longer than that bug date 
<flocculant> bbl
<ochosi> Unit193: feel free to suggest improvements to all of those scripts. what's the benefit of $@ over $* ? (also sorry about the whitespace changes, stupid editors...)
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<bluesabre> will probably have a big hurrah of package updates tonight
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193: once you guys are good with thunar-uca I'll also merge and release it
<bluesabre> latest parole commit fixes video playback in vbox
<bluesabre> trying to fix the other bugs tonight so I can push out the 1.0 of it
<bluesabre> flocculant: and then I'll work on the blog post more :)
<bluesabre> xfce4-settings 4.12.2; parole 1.0; xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.3.5 with wnck; xubuntu-default-settings bump with numlockx, find-cursor, and new default video output for parole... I think are on my list
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> i'll also try to release notifyd 0.4.2 tomorrow
<ochosi> everything is already prepared
<flocculant> bluesabre: smoketested respin #2 - marking again ...
<TheMaster> ochosi: I thought I did make recommendations! :P  And nah, the whitespace fixing isn't really a problem, I've done that.  Just asking you to note it if you wouldn't mind.  The difference has to do with splitting"
<ochosi> TheMaster: right, but the question is whether there's any benefit
<ochosi> the for loop does the splitting anyhow
<ochosi> i can test again with multiple files with spaces in their names
<ochosi> where and how would you note the whitespace removal?
<ochosi> commit msg?
<TheMaster> http://www.theunixschool.com/2011/03/difference-between-and-in-shell.html
<TheMaster> ochosi: And I usually just drop 'd/changelog: Remove trailing whitespace in old entries.' in debian/changelog
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> will amend that stuff
<ochosi> meh, just noticed *.rtf is not in the libreoffice mimetype list
<ochosi> how annyoing
<ochosi> annoying
<ochosi> TheMaster: grrr, i will have to switch back to using file extensions... some of the mimetypes of LO and the mimetypes that the file command return don't match
<ochosi> for most things i tested it worked fine, but seemingly i don't have enough *.doc files
<ochosi> "application/vnd.ms-word" vs "application/msword"
<ochosi> quite silly
<ochosi> i'll have to do that on friday, no time before then to rewrite this
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<bluesabre> evening all
<TheMaster> Oh, may as well note.  I'm going to rebuild vte in my own personal Xfce repo against pcre so that I can have a fully functional xfce4-terminal.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-01
<bluesabre> TheMaster: oh?
<bluesabre> Didn't know there was an issue
<TheMaster> It's more of the silly main/universe thing.  Qt5 gets around it by using a bundled lib(!) :P
<bluesabre> ew
<TheMaster> Hah!  And Ubuntu is going with the development build for an LTS! :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Which is fine if it's markedly better
<bluesabre> Guessing it's not
<bluesabre> TheMaster: interested in packaging xfce4-settings-4.12.2? If not, I'll get it later tonight
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-notifyd 0.4.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-notifyd-0-4-2-released-tp50737.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<bluesabre> ooh
<TheMaster> New -pa-plug, -notifyd, and -terminal. :P
<bluesabre> and settings once it flows through
<bluesabre> busy night ahead
<bluesabre> parole possibly in a bit
<TheMaster> bluesabre: Which do you plan to do?
<bluesabre> pa-plug, xubuntu-{settings/meta}, parole
<bluesabre> and whatever might be left
<bluesabre> something scares me about the terminal :D
<TheMaster> Oh?
<bluesabre> :D
<TheMaster> Just have to bump the patch.
<bluesabre> Not too scary then
<bluesabre> TheMaster: know much about architecture differences?
<TheMaster> What's up?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1374887 seems to affect only 32-bit... and I think I've narrowed it down to this cast from double to int64 https://git.xfce.org/apps/parole/tree/src/plugins/mpris2/mpris2-provider.c#n570
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1374887 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in parole_provider_player_get_stream_position()" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> doubles are different between arches, and int64s are not if I recall
<bluesabre> seems i'm wrong https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1101463/the-double-byte-size-in-32-bit-and-64-bit-os#1101467
<bluesabre> time to grab a 32bit iso to test parole bugs apparently :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.12.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-12-2-released-tp50740.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> All 193 Units have returned
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin/0.3.5-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> Unit193: currently packaging anything?
<bluesabre> Packaging up parole 1.0.0 now
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/1.0.0-0ubuntu1
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: parole 1.0.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-parole-1-0-0-released-tp50741.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/4.12.2-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> Unit193: notifyd and terminal remain
<flocculant> morning
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> bit stupid o'clock here
<bluesabre> 12:21 am here
<bluesabre> wayyyyyy past my bedtime
<bluesabre> but I wanted to get these things done
<flocculant> up the wooden hill for you then young man :p
<flocculant> yea - nice :)
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> thanks for looking at numlock :)
<bluesabre> sure thing
<flocculant> I'll let you off th blog post for the moment :p
<flocculant> needs to be before too long though as b1 next week ;)
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> should be able to review tomorrow
<flocculant> okey doke 
<flocculant> as long as the sentiment is still a bit harsh - just publish, don't mind if you lose the software fairy though lol
<flocculant> anyway - waking up here - night night
<bluesabre> seeya flocculant 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nope sorry, I was gone.
<bluesabre> Unit193: no problemo, just wanted to make sure I wasn't packaging what you were packaging
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/2.222
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r652 * etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/parol... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r653 * etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r654 * usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/50-xubuntu-numlock.conf:... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r655 * d/compat, d/control:... (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/18.04.2
<bluesabre> shew!
<bluesabre> nighty everyone
<bluesabre> ochosi: once we're happy with the thunar actions, we'll merge them in and do another release
<flocculant> bluesabre: when you're back - lately seen the pa plugin being 'grey' briefly when desktop starts and then looking normal
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r656 Release 18.04.2 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> flocculant: should be fixed with the upload I did earlier
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre thanks for fixing bug 1374887
<ubottu> bug 1374887 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in parole_provider_player_get_stream_position()" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1374887
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: sure thing!
<slickymasterWork> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: what do you think id the best way to approach that odd grub flashing bug? 
<flocculant> !team | anyone using bionic - can you check coming out of suspend - seeing login/desktop/back to login then desktop is ok here
<ubottu> anyone using bionic - can you check coming out of suspend - seeing login/desktop/back to login then desktop is ok here: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> thanks
 * flocculant toddles off to check the other bionic install
<flocculant> where he eventually sees the same thing
<flocculant> knome: updated 16.04 torrent link to point at .4
<Unit193> Heh, wow so I'm pretty much the worst to verify that.
<pleia2> there's a thing on the front page that needs an update too
 * pleia2 pokes around wordpress
<pleia2> ok, updated
<pleia2> now knome can come by and tell me I did it wrong :)
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> Unit193: hello!
<Unit193> >_>
<bluesabre> any luck with -terminal and -notifyd packages?
<bluesabre> :]
<Unit193> Crap no, I was dragged to the gym last night, then watched Murder on the Orient Express. :3
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Interested in doing them tonight?
<bluesabre> and
<bluesabre> how was that movie?
<Unit193> I could, since you did everything else.  Though I note last night's upgrade was slightly odd for me.
<Unit193> It was alright I guess, but not really great.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> Something wrong with upgrade?
<Unit193> Not "wrong", another LO style was pulled in and something tried to pull cups back in.
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> fun
<bluesabre> Unit193: let me know if you're going to poke those packages, otherwise I'll pick them up
<bluesabre> notifyd itself would be enough to make me happy ;)
<Unit193> Heh, already poking.
<bluesabre> Awesome
<Unit193> At -termina.
<bluesabre> so 87.5% complete
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> (termina_)
<Unit193> Yep!
<Unit193> If I poke at -notifyd, I have to patch it after I'm done too. :P
<Unit193> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/xfce4-sntray-plugin_0.4.8-1.html
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> ...Oh wait, I pushed the wrong one didn't I..?
<Unit193> bluesabre: IT'S SNOWING! :D :D
<Unit193> ...Sorry wait what was I doing?
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> Right, so yes that's in NEW, yes it has my name on it, but I'm not in uploaders or anything.
<bluesabre> How'd you manage that?
<Unit193> sunweaver asked, he's helped or done things for me in the past, so sure.
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, -terminal with full vte support should be built in my PPA soon if you want a better terminal. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: cool, will check that out
<Unit193> Huh.
<Unit193> I: xfce4-notifyd: dbus-session-service-wrong-name org.freedesktop.Notifications.service usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.xfce.xfce4-notifyd.Notifications.service
<bluesabre> That's interesting
<ochosi> weird what does that mean?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-02
<Unit193> ...Did I do anything with that after the testbuild?
<bluesabre> You ok Unit193 ?
<Unit193> Should I not be?
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Distracted with supper, packaging something else, and whatnot.
<Unit193> Oh yes, backporting backages too.
<Unit193> One of those needs a 'p'
<bluesabre> That's cool. Currently shopping around.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hey, I meant to ask.  What happens if you have the lightdm config but not numlockx installed?
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh
<bluesabre> something bad
<bluesabre> Suppose the options there are 1) add a wrapper script to which and run, 2) move to core-depends
<Unit193> That's what I was thinking, except recommends.
<Unit193> How bad?
<bluesabre> greeter doesn't start
<bluesabre> Unit193: solution! https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/657
<Unit193> Interesting way to check for it, but you'll want $@ here I think.
<bluesabre> seems like either should be safe, but I'll swap that in
<Unit193> $1 only passes the first arg.
<bluesabre> numlockx only takes one arg
<Unit193> LP #1693032
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1693032 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "missing dependency on gnome-session-bin" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1693032
<Unit193> "fixed"
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> That's freaking annoying.
<Unit193> Can we get rid of that
<Unit193> I honestly don't care what you interpret as 'that' either, the dep or package will do.
<bluesabre> Yeah
<bluesabre> the package is useful, so guess I'll be submitting a MP soon
<Unit193> Thanks.
<Unit193> Because gnome-session-quit, the reason for the dep, likely won't do crap in Xfce, LXDE, MATE, etc...
<Unit193> I seem to remember someone asking me how one quits the Xfce session, thought it was Brian even...
<bluesabre> Correct, it does nothing useful
<Unit193> 05/#ubuntu-devel.2017-05-23.log.gz:17:12:53 < Unit193> What precisely does gnome-session-quit do?
<Unit193> 05/#ubuntu-devel.2017-05-23.log.gz:17:14:19 < bdmurray> gnome-session-quit - End the current GNOME session
<Unit193> 05/#ubuntu-devel.2017-05-23.log.gz:17:14:45 < bdmurray> There's a reboot button in software-properties-gtk that I'm guessing doesn't do anything on Lubuntu or Xubuntu.
<Unit193> 05/#ubuntu-devel.2017-05-23.log.gz:17:15:02 < Unit193> xfce4-session-logout --reboot
<Unit193> 05/#ubuntu-devel.2017-05-23.log.gz:17:15:29 < bdmurray> Unit193: will there be a prompt too?
<Unit193> 05/#ubuntu-devel.2017-05-23.log.gz:17:15:55 < Unit193> If you want that, drop '--reboot'
<Unit193> 05/#ubuntu-devel.2017-05-23.log.gz:17:17:24 < bdmurray> Unit193: Thanks
<Unit193> I remembered correctly! \o/
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> was actually commenting on the bug with that info
<Unit193> Hah, whoops.  I just asked.  Bug is likely better.
<bluesabre> Unit193: actually, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1693038
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1693038 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "needs to support restart on Lubuntu and Xubuntu" [Medium,Triaged]
<Unit193> NIce. :/
<bluesabre> added a ping comment to that bug
<bluesabre> thanks for the notice Unit193 
<Unit193> "Next time don't get so annoyed at GNOME though" I know. :(
<bluesabre> Also added to xubuntu-b-bugs
<bluesabre> Looks like lp is having some issues now
<bluesabre> thanks for the -terminal upload
<Unit193> ...I still forgot notifyd didn't I?
<bluesabre> Yes
<bluesabre> Didn't want to say that outright
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> xfce4-notifyd_0.4.2-0ubuntu1_source.changes in ~/ !
<Unit193> OK, I have my newer, shinier terminal.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> -notifyd dput.
<bluesabre> hooray!
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193, I'll stop nagging you now for a while
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nono, thanks.  I just kept getting distracted by others. :P
<bluesabre> anyway, that's everything I had hoped to land by today, so nice to see us where we are
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+packages has the backports, and https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages has the shiny terminal.
<bluesabre> thanks a bunch Unit193 
<Unit193> 'Course.
<bluesabre> flocculant: going to work on the blog post in the morning so we can get that out for the weekend and prior to b1 testing
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r657 * usr/bin/xubuntu-numlockx,... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r658 Replace bash arg param (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> long day, nighty everyone
<Unit193> G'nighty!
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok
<flocculant> bluesabre: nvm re grub btw - they finally seen it elsewhere - marked mine as a dupe
<Unit193> Link?
<Unit193> nvm.
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes refreshed
<Unit193> You're up again?  It's like you do that every day.
<bluesabre> Crazy right
<Unit193> Hopefully we got everything done in time for FF..
<bluesabre> thunar-print might(?) need a FFe
<bluesabre> otherwise, I think we're good
<Unit193> bluesabre: I helped debug an issue I found with an upstream.  Turns out if one uses --disable-silent-rules, something "breaks".  That's an odd one.
<flocculant> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<bluesabre> Unit193: that sounds bad
<ochosi> hey morning
<ochosi> i have another easy MR for default settings: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/default-tiling-shortcuts/+merge/340278
<ochosi> just kb shortcuts for stuff we didn't have before (tiling)
<ochosi> should be a no-brainer hopefully
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1751266 \o/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1751266 in linux-firmware (Ubuntu Bionic) "Missing firmware in linux-image-4.15.0-10-generic" [High,Fix released]
<ochosi> i will finalize thunar-print today
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<ochosi> if you wanna add your opinion to the default shortcuts for tiling, that'd be awesome
<bluesabre> Added a comment already
<bluesabre> I like the idea
<ochosi> we can also push that after FF
<ochosi> it's fairly straightforward
<bluesabre> FF was last night, so anything at this point is after FF :)
<ochosi> yeah, just saying :)
<ochosi> it's not really a feature
<bluesabre> Agreed
<bluesabre> Doesn't require FFe
<ochosi> there's one more small thing wrt to thunar uca that i would like to propose
<ochosi> currently "open terminal here" only works on directories
<ochosi> when not using the icon view, but one of the two list views, it's a little hard getting a terminal open in the current directory (with the mouse at least)
<ochosi> so enabling it on files too would solve that
<ochosi> would simply open the terminal in the folder where the file is located
<ochosi> so no string change or anything necessary, just a tiny amendment of the thunar uca
<ochosi> (can also propose a MR for that)
<bluesabre> That sounds handy
<ochosi> very easy fix
<ochosi> i can also push it straight if we all agree
<ochosi> it's just adding four lines to the uca.xml.in (matching on all files)
<bluesabre> Do it
 * ochosi does it
<flocculant> don't do it
<flocculant> :p
<ochosi> :D
 * ochosi waits patiently
<ochosi> actually i just noticed that the behavior changes slightly...
<ochosi> currently if you click "open terminal here" on a directory it opens it *inside* that directory
<ochosi> with my change, it opens the terminal in the parent directory
<ochosi> which may not be what the user wants :/
<ochosi> (because you have to change exo-open --working-directory %f to %d)
<ochosi> only alternative would be to create a second "open terminal here" custom action for files and show the two selectively in the correct context
<ochosi> hmpf
<ochosi> could be noted in the description of the custom action that one is for files and one is for directories...
<ochosi> thoughts..?
<flocculant> well - I'd say if I told it to open terminal in Desktop - that's where I'd want it - are you saying the change doesn't do that?
<ochosi> (the workaround described above with two actions works fine btw, already tested it. they only show up in mutually exclusive contexts, so it always works and the user only notices that there are two when going to the "Configure custom actions..." dialog)
<ochosi> if you are in e.g. detail view in thunar and right-click a directory (e..g desktop) then currently it'll open the terminal there (~/Desktop)
<flocculant> right
<ochosi> with the simple patch that behavior would change to opening just ~ instead
<ochosi> "~" being the parent of the right-clicked folder
<flocculant> I see
<ochosi> that's probably not desirable
<ochosi> and a change in behavior
<flocculant> I assumed as much just checking - I'd say that's not desirable
<ochosi> but we can enable "Open terminal here..." on files too with a second, almost identical custom action
<flocculant> yup understand that
<ochosi> which shows up only on files and uses %d (directory of selected path) instead of %f (full path incl. filename)
<ochosi> (sorry, that was all very verbose now :))
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> I'd guess that if users don't generally see that - it'd be ok. eg it just works
<flocculant> I'd see something in custom actions pretty quick :D
<ochosi> yeah, only users playing with custom actions would notice
<ochosi> and even then it's not a problem
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> we can explain it in the description
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> so i guess i'll push that instead :p
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> me has 2 open as root options
<knome> pleia2, the frontpage looks okay to me :P
<ochosi> flocculant: hehe, nice
<ochosi> native speakers: is this an ok string? "Open terminal in the folder of the selected file"
<ochosi> (just fyi, i'm on my private xfce hackathon today - took a day off from work)
<flocculant> oh yea 
<flocculant> I wasn't expecting to be home - but Southern England and 'some' snow :|
<flocculant> 3 hours and more to do 16 miles yesterday so I didn't bother today ;)
<flocculant> that string is ok - bit long winded
<flocculant> is all
<flocculant> you could s/in the/at selected file's folder
<ochosi> yeah, that's nicer indeed
<Unit193> "Open terminal in containing directory" :>
<flocculant> yea - that sounds better Unit193 
<knome> yes, folder is a physical thing too :P
<Unit193> Oh, sorry.  I didn't mean to be helpful.
<flocculant> Unit193: that's ok - carry on :)
<knome> Unit193, haa haa (in Nelson's voice)
<flocculant> ochosi: re your xfce hacky thing - actually about till later so I can clone and check things if it helps
<ochosi> hehe, alright alright, i'll change the string again :)
<flocculant> lol
<ochosi> pushed
<ochosi> hope you're all happy now :p
<flocculant> :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [default-tiling-shortcuts] r659 Add default shortcuts for window tiling... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r659 Additional open-terminal-here custom action for Thunar for f... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r660 Improve open-terminal-here string... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r661 Improve string again... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
 * flocculant ignores swissbot for the day ...
 * Unit193 petpets SwissBot.
<Unit193> There, there.
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> bluesabre: still there or did you go to work already? :)
<ochosi> Unit193: anything else we need taken care of for 18.04?
<Unit193> No idea.
<bluesabre> ochosi: still here, doing some blog post writing with floc
<ochosi> ah ok
<Unit193> I might know tomorrow.
<ochosi> bluesabre: xfdesktop4 is still on your list, right?
<ochosi> i think it's in no blueprint, is it?
<ochosi> if not, i'll at least add it there now
<bluesabre> I think I fixed that?
<ochosi> ah kewl
<ochosi> i didn't check
<bluesabre> which xfdesktop thing?
<ochosi> just maybe missed the announcement
<ochosi> the accountsservice thingy
<ochosi> for the greeter
<Unit193> Fixed.
<ochosi> \o/
<bluesabre> Yup, resolved.
<Unit193> ochosi: You running xubuntu-dev/staging?
<ochosi> Unit193: yes, i just didn't check the greeter/lockscreen recently i guess :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: can there really be two keyboard shortcuts bound to the same xfwm4 command?
<Unit193> /staging is for Artful.
<bluesabre> ochosi: we have multiples already for Xf86* keys and Ctrl+Alt+ version variants
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> in that case
<ochosi> but i think not for xfwm4, only for "normal" shortcuts
<ochosi> that's an unfortunate difference, doesn't seem to work for xfwm4 afaict
<bluesabre> ah, darn
<bluesabre> ochosi: can you go ahead and submit a FFe for thunar-print so we might get that preapproved today before uploading this weekend?
<bluesabre> I would, but I'm ahead to run out the door
<bluesabre> *about
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> ok sure
<ochosi> i'll do that now
<ochosi> just fixing up the script real quick
<ochosi> (switching from mimetypes back to extensions, as mimetypes seem to be so broken and inconsistent...)
<Unit193> !info shellcheck
<ubottu> shellcheck (source: shellcheck): lint tool for shell scripts. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.4.6-1 (bionic), package size 1847 kB, installed size 12533 kB
<ochosi> Unit193: nice, didn't know about that. didn't throw any warnings or stuff with the thunar-print script (as i'll push it in a few mins)
<ochosi> so that's a good thing i guess :)
<ochosi> Unit193: ok, you can review again, should be all good now: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/thunar-uca-print/+merge/340058
<ochosi> once you approve, i'll file for FFe
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r654 Switch from mimetype-matching back to extensions... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r655 Update patterns to match thunar-print script... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r656 Fix small issue in thunar-print extension script... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r657 Note cleaning of whitespace from changelog... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<knome> slickymasterWork, will you announce our sprint on tue on the ml?
<slickymasterWork> haven't thought of that
<slickymasterWork> do you see it as necessary?
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: depends if you want to give people a chance to join in I guess
<slickymasterWork> fair enough
<slickymasterWork> I'll do it
<ochosi> bluesabre: just for your update: i
<ochosi> crap
<ochosi> bluesabre: just for your update: i've not filed for FFe for thunar-print yet but am waiting for Unit193's final review. so far everything is tested and works, it really was just a switch back from mimetypes (nice dream) to file extensions (at least it works as expected)
<Unit193> ochosi: I'll go with sure, but I'll note that the last call isn't guarded.
<ochosi> what which where?
<ochosi> (sry, i'm somewhere else currently)
<ochosi> wanna comment inline again so i can take a look a little later?
<ochosi> (or alternatively be more verbose in here so i have an easier time following up)
<Unit193> Oh sure, the lpr calls don't check for the command, though one might argue that anyone wanting to print but without cups is a bit on their own.
<Unit193> (Also -x $(command -v foo) is a bit redundant as command already checks that.)
<ochosi> Unit193: ah you mean "command -v" already checks for executable?
<ochosi> added the cups if
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: started to prepare FFe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1753015
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1753015 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Add thunar custom action to directly print certain file types" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> feel free to contribute to the description
<ochosi> night y'all
<ochosi> (at least nobody can say i was lazy at today's hackathon ;))
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [thunar-uca-print] r658 thunar-pring: Check for CUPS and send a notification if it's... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-03
<bluesabre> ochosi: looks good to me, reached out to -release for approval
<bluesabre> flocculant: updated the draft on wp
<bluesabre> knome: flocculant and I have an article we've been working on, if you want to take a look and give feedback, it's the "Testing for Xubuntu" one
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/software-properties/more-restart/+merge/340543
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - sad to say goodbye to the software fairies but not surprised :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Guess who just ran into that numlockx issue at a reeeeeeally bad time? :P
<flocculant> Unit193: there's an issue with numlockx ?
<Unit193> No
<flocculant> oh good :p
<Unit193> Now if it's not installed, lightdm doesn't start.
<flocculant> oh dear - that's a bit nice then
<Unit193> I knew this, but that switchover happened, didn't do somethign to fix the next boot, was messing with graphics drivers so thought it might be that when really just numlockx. :P
<ochosi> wow, is numlockx now a hard dependency of lightdm?
<Unit193> Of x-d-s, basically.  He's got a script to bail nicely.
<flocculant> ochosi: just allowed your post to our dev list from gmail - added it to accept filter too
<ochosi> flocculant: ah crap, yeah, identities and gmail... i sometimes forget to switch when sending to MLs
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> also allowed jbicha
<flocculant> bluesabre: supposedly grub thing is fix comm - can't find it in -proposed yet though
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, fixes ready, waiting for thunar-print to release
<flocculant> morning bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: fixed stupid grub locally if it's annoying you, find the only --append in /etc/grub.d/00_header and lose it, then update grub
<flocculant> bluesabre: if we don't hear from knome re the blog post - I really want it out before early next week
<bluesabre> flocculant: definitely
<bluesabre> ochosi: you're also welcome to review it
<flocculant> have a good day
<bluesabre> you too flocculant 
<bluesabre> https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes refreshed
<ochosi> Unit193: were there any other changes in thunar-print or can we go ahead and merge? i can drop the test -x, didnt know command covered that (the docs dont mention that)
<ochosi> bluesabre: re: tiling shortcuts, i think its either or, we cant bind two shortcuts in xfwm4, that only works with regular commands
<bluesabre> ochosi: that's fine, the arrow keys are more discoverable
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> feel free to merge then
<ochosi> wrt the display settings work i did, i can explain the changes to you
<ochosi> but the commit should be well cpmmented
<ochosi> anyway no rush, thats a bugfix anyway
<bluesabre> sure thing
<flocculant> bluesabre: added a link at Anything else, youâve found a regression. to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Reporting_non-crash_hardware_and_desktop_application_bugs
<flocculant> off again for a while - back this evening I expect
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<flocculant> np :)
<knome> flocculant, bluesabre: the article looks good to me
<flocculant> knome: ta
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you're happy with it then publish it, I'm good with it
<Unit193> ochosi: I think we're good.
<flocculant> hi Unit193  - see your guy is testing core again :)
<flocculant> couldn't confirm the fail though
<Unit193> Oooh, that's to the list not me.  I see.
<flocculant> Unit193: you want core on the tracker again - I can do it easily - then I can post to list and tell him
<Unit193> So yes, going to directly install rather than desktop then install has been questionable in the past.
<flocculant> worked ok for me in kvm at least
<Unit193> flocculant: Well it never really saw stuff, pretty much just me, him, you and slick anyway.
<flocculant> well makes it easier to track I suppose
<flocculant> so I added it :D
<Unit193> OK, works for me.
<flocculant> do we want the tasksel stuff still?
<Unit193> Well that's how one would officially install without these ISOs.
<flocculant> k - I'll leave that alone then
<flocculant> though I think the testcases could do with some love - I'm guessing you'd want the mini.iso for those?
<Unit193> Yeah.
<flocculant> sent reply to them on list 
<ochosi> Unit193: mkay, cool. then please don't forget to approve the MR
<flocculant> bluesabre: parole is on here https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/03/linux-release-roundup-corebird
<flocculant> nigth all
<bluesabre> flocculant: that's a pleasant surprise
<ochosi> bluesabre: as Unit193 approved the MR in here (for thunar-print) i guess it's ok to approve on LP and merge
<bluesabre> ochosi: great, will do tonight
<ochosi> holy crap
<ochosi> did you know the murrine engine doesnt support the "inconsistent" state of checkbuttons in gtk2?
<bluesabre> I did not
<Unit193> ochosi: I'm getting there, I'm getting there. :P
<ochosi> sorry sorry :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm considering to make the checkbuttons in Gtk2 look like Gtk3 (with pixbuf) and implement the inconsistent state
<ochosi> which would have two nice side-effects
<ochosi> 1) the checkbuttons would look the same everywhere
<ochosi> 2) the xfce4-display stuff i did will look and work ok
<bluesabre> ochosi: I have no complaints about that
<ochosi> alrighty, i'll get it done before UIF
<bluesabre> March 22 :)
<ochosi> easy :)
<bluesabre> easy is good
<bluesabre> Unit193: so, ubiquity is using tasksel for the mini option on ubuntu?
<Unit193> ...What?
<bluesabre> for the minimal install option on the main ubuntu iso?
<bluesabre> or to tweak my question, can we do that and do we want to?
<Unit193> mini.iso uses debian-installer last I knew, gives a prompt for what you want.
<bluesabre> (this thing) https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/02/ubuntu-18-04-minimal-install-option
<Unit193> Didn't know about that, but doesn't look like something to invest time in if it's only for 18.04
<bluesabre> yeah, was just curious
<Unit193> Yes, does sound nice.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-04
<flocculant> bluesabre: I saw something to do with minimal installation
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> that was more a hardcoded list of packages to remove - not like tasksel
<Unit193> That was my guess.
<flocculant> https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/ubiquity/minimal-package-list/+merge/337700
<flocculant> though I did see something which was an actual list 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar-shares-plugin 0.3.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-shares-plugin-0-3-0-released-tp50763.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks, and looks like we should be good to publish at any time
<flocculant> bluesabre: published it 
<flocculant> knome: do you want the cover pic at fb to be bionic?
<flocculant> if so please give me $6,000,000 :D
<flocculant> posted on fb
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - could we have some twitter and g+1 love too :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: did you have any more feedback on https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/thunar-uca-print/+merge/340058, or is it ready to merge?
<Unit193> I hope not at least!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r662 [ Simon SteinbeiÃ ]... (by Sean Davis)
<flocculant> what are these tiling shortcuts then?
<flocculant> don't suppose there's a list anywhere is there?
<ochosi> flocculant: just super+arrows for the four tilings and then numpad stuff for the corners. it's editable in xfwm4's keyboard settings anyway
<flocculant> ochosi: I guess I turned it all off somehow then lol
<pleia2> flocculant: done
<flocculant> pleia2: you're wonderful :)
<flocculant> thanks 
<pleia2> <3
<pleia2> https://twitter.com/AaronPrisk/status/970300878904332288?s=09
<pleia2> good job all around :)
<flocculant> Kumool: can you :)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> that was supposed to be a :)
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - seems we have light-locker issues again - someone in #xubuntu is finding ti not working, wouldn't trigger in vm here either
<flocculant> can't seem to get it working in bionic either
<flocculant> https://i.imgur.com/v7bKZlB.png
<flocculant> bbl
<bluesabre> flocculant: seems to work here with a fully updated bionic... try "light-locker-command -l"
<bluesabre> I think -q queries whether it is currently locked
<flocculant> bluesabre: it appeared to eventually get there - just a good while after the 2 minutes I'd it set for
<flocculant> and -l does lock
<ochosi> bluesabre: weren't there some greeter-specific fixes needed for greybird..?
<ochosi> or for the greeter itself, can't remember
<ochosi> something with panel and panel items there
<bluesabre> ochosi: the panel on the top has slightly different bg color where the indicators are, but there
<bluesabre> 's also fixes needed for the greeter itself, it looks bad in adwaita
<ochosi> hmm, ok
<ochosi> i can take a look at it in xephyr
<ochosi> (if i remember how to do the test run of the greeter)
<ochosi> i think by now my gtk3 understanding is in a different place then back then, so i'd hope that will be easy to fix
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<bluesabre> ochosi: dm-tool add-nested-seat
<bluesabre> and "allow-debugging=true" in the conf so you can run inspector
<ochosi> that sounds different than what i remembered, but i'll go with anything that works :p
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> btw, the checkbuttons in gtk2 already match gtk3
<bluesabre> lightdm --test-mode has been broken for years
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> that was what i remembered
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r663 * Add new custom action for Thunar to "Print file/s", affect... (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> and that's merged
<bluesabre> still waiting for -release ack
<ochosi> (just need to put the finishing touches on the checkboxes)
<ochosi> kewl, thanks a bunch
<ochosi> it's a fairly trivial and easy-to-read script, i don't expect big troubles
<ochosi> we've really been on quite a release/fixing roll lately
<ochosi> very nice stuff coming together there
<ochosi> btw, if you're looking for the 4.12 version of the display patch i mentioned yesterday, you can check this branch (schuellerf was kind enough to cherry-pick already) https://git.xfce.org/users/schuellerf/xfce4-settings/
<ochosi> i already discovered another potential race condition in the connect/disconnect cycle btw
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> i'll try to fix that asap as well
<ochosi> but i also don't wanna keep adding to your review backlog
<ochosi> i'll give you some breathing space and fix greybird first
<ochosi> then the greeter, then the display dialog (i guess)
<bluesabre> alrighty, sounds good to me
<ochosi> bluesabre: hm, so how do i get to the greeter? that straight launches my session
<ochosi> or do i need to disable auto-login?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yup
<ochosi> (logging out just seems to produce a blackscreen)
<ochosi> the allow-debugging goes into lightdm's conf or the greeter's?
<bluesabre> ochosi: greeter conf
<ochosi> (ah right, had already enabled it in the settings dialog...)
<ochosi> meh, so i guess i need to restart lightdm for the setting to take effect...
<ochosi> bluesabre: how do you start the inspector there again? the shortcut (ctrl+shift+d doesn't seem to take any effect as ctrl+shift are the grab keys for xephyr)
<ochosi> i think i have some ideas for patches already to fix the panel vs. menubar situation (which produces the weird look of adwaita), but i can't use the inspector to do live testing :/
<ochosi> (seems both keyboard shortcuts are hardwired :'( )
<ochosi> guess i need to investigate another time when i know how to actually launch the inspector there
<bluesabre> ctrl+shift+i I think is the normal one
<bluesabre> otherwise you'll probably have to lock your screen to launch it
<ochosi> yeah, but the problem is ctrl+shift is swallowed by xephyr
<ochosi> or does that shortcut actually work for you..?
<bluesabre> haven't tried, don't do much theming :)
<ochosi> meh :)
<ochosi> fwiw i also don't manage to launch gtkinspector in my actual greeter...
<ochosi> even though allow-debugging is set to true
<bluesabre> might require more now
<bluesabre> when they first introduced it, you only needed the shortcut
<ochosi> mhm, quite possible
<bluesabre> then they required an env var as well
<ochosi> i think you also need the env var
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> another day then
<ochosi> hm, it also needs the gsetting
<ochosi> globally, i guess
<ochosi> "gsettings set org.gtk.Settings.Debug enable-inspector-keybinding true"
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-25
<JackFrost> https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/desktop/xfce4-session/commit/5fea30d4ffe6f05b17d50bf1a6c0c2824e32133b ala.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-26
<DarkTrick> Is this a bug? 
<DarkTrick> Installed xubuntu 18.10 
<DarkTrick> (today)
<DarkTrick> cloned master of xfce4-session, build and install
<DarkTrick> could not login with error message " "GTK+ 2.x symbols detected. Using GTK+2.x and GTK+ 3 in the same process is not supported"
<DarkTrick> Fixed it by installing libglib3.0-cil-dev
<knome> DarkTrick, not really, if you are building packages then you will need to take care of their requirements yourself
<DarkTrick> knome, thank you for the information :)
<knome> "sudo apt build-dep packagename" might help in some situations, but not here, since the requirements/dependencies have changed with the new version and that's not tracked in the old package version (as you noticed here)
<JackFrost> Also that's incorrect, 'cil' is mono, which is .NET stuff.
<DarkTrick> I just used cil because there was no other 3.0 dev shown by apt-get
<DarkTrick> but it solved the problem
<brainwash> DarkTrick: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15104
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15104 in General "Crash at startup: GTK+ 2.x symbols detected. Using GTK+ 2.x and GTK+ 3 in the same process is not supported" [Normal,Resolved: invalid]
<DarkTrick> This didn't show up, when I searched :(
<DarkTrick> @ubottu
<DarkTrick> @brainwash
<brainwash> it's a very recent report
<brainwash> 02_add-light-locker-to-xflock4.patch,
<brainwash> 03_add-light-locker-to-xflock4.patch,
<brainwash> bluesabre: this looks not correct ^
<brainwash> that's from the changelog
<brainwash> previous package versions actually do have the patch twice
<brainwash> strange :)
<JackFrost> https://bugs.debian.org/923349
<ubottu> Debian bug 923349 in wnpp "RFA: numlockx -- enable NumLock in X11 sessions" [Normal,Open]
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-27
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfmpc 0.2.90 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfmpc-0-2-90-released-tp52676.html (by Andre Miranda)
<tracker4> hi
<bluesabre> brainwash, yup, not crazy
<astraljava> o/
<astraljava> Been a while, eh?
<bluesabre> astraljava, hello!
<JackFrost> Hah, and was just thinking the other day how once you said your English was better than your Finnish.  How odd. :3
<astraljava> JackFrost: You got that from that line above? :D I guess it just shows how horrid my finnish actually is, then. :p
<JackFrost> astraljava: Nah, was wondering if it was actually accurate. :P
<astraljava> It depends. Naturally I know quite well how to form more coherent sentences in finnish. I use it every day, for sure. English not necessarily. But it's how I think that matters. I've heard some people say that to determine your first language, you can think of which language you respond with in a surprise situation.
<astraljava> Meaning, what's the first word that pops into your head when something shocks you.
<astraljava> For me, it's one in English.
<astraljava> Many times I also struggle to find translations to things I completely understand in English, whereas I hardly ever fail to translate from finnish.
<JackFrost> Ah, quite interesting.
<astraljava> I don't know where it started from, or exactly when, but when I was a 3rd grader and our English teaching started in elementary school, I corrected my teacher on my (second, or third) exam and received 10Â½ because of that. 10 is usually the highest you can get. :D
<astraljava> 3rd grade means you're 9 or 10 yo.
<astraljava> Basically what I meant was that I can express myself better in English.
<pleia2> upgrading the development server to 18.04.2
<pleia2> just did this on the ubuntu-us.org server and it went ok, so I'm not worried
<pleia2> also, Canonical approved our community funding request to keep paying for this in 2018 and 2019 last week, so hooray :)
<pleia2> this is very kind :) http://xubuntu.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3935&sid=7bf35a8b80fa75d9780aac76facb4877
<pleia2> (Google translate seems to work on it, I don't speak French!)
<pleia2> upgrade seemed to go ok, let me or knome know if you find something amiss
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-28
<bluesabre> This got merged, https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/bionic_image_size/+merge/363298, so the oversized notifications should calm down
<JackFrost> \o/
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: gigolo 0.4.91 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-gigolo-0-4-91-released-tp52681.html (by Landry Breuil-2)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-01
<Unit193> Looks like a panel merge remains.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-02
<knome> bluesabre, we're still getting loads of those daily CD health check mails to the -devel mod queue, can you do something about it? :P
<knome> bluesabre, or do you want me to make blunt action (eg. start poking random people about it :D)
<pavlushka> the current 19.04 installation is not forwarding from this screen https://imgur.com/4g6RVIk
<pavlushka> the current ubuntu iso installation does
<bluesabre> knome, those should have stopped, the max size was increased to 2gb this week
<bluesabre> Unit193, I think xfce4-panel can actually be synced now... it looks like the dm-tool patch was upstreamed
<bluesabre> (can you sanity check me on that?)
<Spass> hello, I've updated torrent links on the 16.04 release page to new point release 16.04.6 - https://xubuntu.org/release/16-04/
<bluesabre> thanks Spass!
<Spass> it will be soon EOL but hey, it still has a month to live ;)
<brainwash> bluesabre: what is the status regarding xubuntu-core/desktop pulling in unity? you haven't commented on the solution yet
<brainwash> 2018-10-14
<brainwash> that's quite a long time now
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-03
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes, syncable.
<Unit193> Only thing noteworthy is we might have to autoreconf, but we'll try without.
<Unit193> (https://sources.debian.org/src/xfce4-panel/4.13.4-1/plugins/actions/actions.c/#L893)
<pavlushka> updated the iso to 20190303 but same issue like https://imgur.com/4g6RVIk
<brainwash> pavlushka: I would open a bug report against ubiquity
<brainwash> pavlushka: bug 1818285
<ubottu> bug 1818285 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Disco) "[disco desktop] Installation fails with parted_server: No data in infifo. parted_server: Line 2387. CRITICAL ERROR!!! EXITING." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818285
<pavlushka> brainwash: that is of Feb 4rth, Feb 26 iso works fine and my one gots stuck before disk management.
<pavlushka> gets
<brainwash> you read the comments?
<brainwash> if you think it's something different, then open a new report
<pavlushka> brainwash: the last comment is 
<pavlushka> This is actually a regression in Ubiquity 19.04.6 and likely different from the issue observed starting on feb. 4th.
<pavlushka> 19.04.5 works fine.
<pavlushka> affects: 	partman-base (Ubuntu Disco) â ubiquity (Ubuntu Disco)
<pavlushka> description: 	updated 
<pavlushka> 23 hours ago
<pavlushka> brainwash: the ubuntu base iso from 20190226 has the ubiquity version 19.04.5 and that works, ok looks like that's the bug i am experiencing
<brainwash> hopefully they'll fix it asap :)
<Gobelijn> If there are devs here: https://xubuntu.org/news/screen-locking-in-xubuntu-14-04/
<Gobelijn> The problem of xfce4 power manager not restoring screen power is still there
<bluesabre> brainwash, I've been doing some legwork to get it fixed... I pushed that xfce4-session update and have been poking around to get the light-locker package updated
<Gobelijn> I removed light-locker completely and reverted back to xscreensaver
<Gobelijn> It's so much simpler imo.
<brainwash> Gobelijn: it could be a different bug, but same result
<brainwash> Gobelijn: which Xubuntu release and which graphics card?
<Gobelijn> 18.04, Nvidia Geforce 670
<brainwash> which driver?
<Gobelijn> nouveauu
<pavlushka> brainwash: by the time I have repacked the ubiquity 19.04.5 and gonna use that to install xubuntu :)
<Gobelijn> x.org X server
<brainwash> I'm not sure if there is a bug for nouveau
<brainwash> the nvidia driver on the other hand is known to cause some issues with light-locker (actually VT switching)
<brainwash> bluesabre: what update to the light-locker package?
<bluesabre> brainwash, I meant lightdm
<bluesabre> got caught up in the other comments
<brainwash> ah okay
<brainwash> so, unity-greeter is no more?
<bluesabre> It's still a thing, but it's not default for any of the desktops now
<brainwash> indeed
<bluesabre> so we could theoretically swap the dep chain to use lightdm-gtk-greeter first
<brainwash> however, if you one tries to install the unity DE, it will pull in the gtk-greeter instead then
<brainwash> assuming that unity is there to stay for a bit longer
<Gobelijn> "but people have always complained about its antiquated looks (which are also not customizable)" I think it's not worth having some people with black screens not knowing what to do, for some minor aesthetical update which you barely see anyway. I mean, no one spends their day watching the screen locker screen.
<bluesabre> brainwash, it shouldn't unity depends on unity-greeter
<brainwash> Gobelijn: bluesabre is working on xfce4-screensaver which will replace light-locker at some point
<Gobelijn> Oh, very nice then :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: and xubuntu depends on gtk-greeter, but yet it installs the unity one :D
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> well, could demote the lightdm-greeter chain to suggests
<bluesabre> so the installer has to be explicit, but guarantees only the requested configuration
<bluesabre> I'll chat with robert_ancell about it the next time I see him online
<brainwash> my solution was to adjust the dependency list (it's alphabetical I think), so it first installs lightdm-gtk-greeter, and then lightdm
<brainwash> currently it's the other way around
<brainwash> this way gtk-greeter would be already present
<bluesabre> brainwash, oh, I read the most recent comment that pointed at comment 26 instead of 27
<bluesabre> but I think standard debian packaging tools prefer to alphabetize the package (wrap-and-sort)
<brainwash> probably
<brainwash> this dependency mess :D
<bluesabre> would have been a lot easier just patching indicator-datetime to just work and walk away, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-datetime/+bug/1754872/comments/7
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1754872 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "apt install xubuntu-desktop does not resolve dependencies properly" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> brainwash, xubuntu-desktop packaging order can't be adjusted, it's auto-generated from xubuntu-meta
<brainwash> okay
<brainwash> I think I only tested by manually editing the xubuntu-desktop deb cache
<brainwash> in /var/lib/...
<bluesabre> but yeah, demoting lightdm recommends to suggests should do the trick
<pavlushka> it worked, heh
<bluesabre> brainwash, created https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1818395 and will follow up with robert
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1818395 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Please demote lightdm greeter recommends to suggests" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> (please don't link it to the existing bug report)
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome, ui freeze coming up on the 14th :)
<Unit193> Doesn't lightdm basically not work without a greeter...?
<bluesabre> Unit193, yes... but the greeters should pull it and not the other way around, I think
<bluesabre> (also of note, the recommends only exist in the ubuntu package)
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<bluesabre> good to see you around (even if its not around around)
<flocculant> ha
<Unit193> They should all provide a virtual package and just have lightdm depend on it. :P
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-24
<BottyMcBotFace> feed platform had 10 updates, showing the latest 7
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: seed lsb-invalid-mta on i386 to avoid component-mismatches for wrong mtas @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=17f0065db71467a581801c5dac2d878d45685fb1 (by Steve Langasek)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add ceph-mds package for CephFS support @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=50a882f6134e3da93390d7d0aaf3df5c60b1bbbf (by James Page)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add OVN to supported package set, correct name for openvswitch-switch @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=4f22d797827ddb065538bad75e9eec1cdcae4112 (by James Page)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: promote gpsd to main (LP: #1790855) @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=252399eaba952509ae471255e8a0ca697e2e641e (by Christian Ehrhardt)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed v5.4 kernel properly, using the new source package names. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=c287b1923d23ac9ef72d08dbc56f32757f7168df (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: add ndctl to supported tools @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=fdc8d8cfe106c3d18b3cbfa7b72975a418a50f82 (by Christian Ehrhardt)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed nfs-ganesha-ceph for general storage and openstack usage @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=8f973f0ded862784639d4567791832a5640fa402 (by James Page)
<astraljava> Has anyone else the problem where you open a new window, e.g. Ctrl+Alt+T (terminal), but the focus remains in whatever window had it before?
<brainwash> astraljava: it happens too when testing with a new user account?
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<JackFrost> â Still broken.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-25
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<astraljava> brainwash: Thanks, I'll try later today. :)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Add masakari packages to supported seed @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=d6dbb6f2e353b4047078402facd02bd36324449e (by James Page)
<jphilips> hi all. hope you all have been well.
<jphilips> was wondering who is involved with management of the website, as i noticed problems with the irc links
<jphilips> when visiting the 'get involved' page - https://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<jphilips> clicking on the 'developer irc channel' link or button leads to http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-irc which doesnt work
<jphilips> hey bluesabre
<jphilips> was there any decisions made at the meetings regarding the keyboard shortcuts or panel height proposals i made?
<knome> jphilips, thanks, i'll take care of that
<knome> JackFrost, did the new freenode webchat support getting the channel name from the url parameters?
<knome> JackFrost, would you be happy with https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/chat.freenode.net/xubuntu-devel ?
<jphilips> knome: would be good to unify the irc link, as the 'developer area' page has this link - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu-devel&nick=tracker.&prompt=1&uio=MTE9MjE131
<JackFrost> knome: Not sure there's a point in using kiwiirc.com over freenode's kiwi.
<knome> right, there it is; a link that actually fills in the channel name :P
<knome> that's what i was looking for but didn't find
<JackFrost> https://kiwi.freenode.net/?nick=xubuntuer?#xubuntu-devel eg
<knome> oh, even nick
<knome> except that doesn't work for the channel
<knome> anyway, website updated already
<knome> now you simply need to figure out a nick for yourself
<JackFrost> knome: I'm looking into the part where the link I used didn't work, as far as I am aware it should.
<JackFrost> There's still xfce4-session and xfce4-settings merges pending.
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Considered going for motu recently?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-26
<krytarik> JackFrost, knome: https://webchat.freenode.net/#xubuntu-devel?nick=xubuntuer? - this form appears to work.  Also, https://xubuntu.org/dev/ â Communication â IRC channel, as jphilips indicated, still has the old link, and the box on <https://xubuntu.org/irc/> is broken too.
<JackFrost> krytarik: My link *did* work at one time.
<krytarik> JackFrost: Well, I figured it from their current examples anyway. >_>
<JackFrost> krytarik: However, swap out the freenode webchat with kiwiirc, see if it works for you. :>
<krytarik> Course not, cause it'd be missing the network specification then! >_<
<JackFrost> WFM.
<krytarik> Uhuh, actually lemme try then..
<JackFrost> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/?nick=xubuntuer?#xubuntu-devel I too didn't expect it to work.
<JackFrost> ...And that's not working for meee. :D
<krytarik> So <https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/chat.freenode.net/#xubuntu-devel?nick=xubuntuer?> funnily enough puts the channel name along with the nick name parameter into the channel name field, and <https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/#irc://chat.freenode.net/#xubuntu-devel?nick=xubuntuer?> does it correctly but looks different at the start.
<krytarik> (And your link doesn't work for me either.)
<JackFrost> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/chat.freenode.net/?nick=xubuntuer?#xubuntu-devel
<krytarik> lol
<JackFrost> I don't know what I did earlier, but I didn't include network.  Perhaps a cookie after clicking the other link first or so.
<guiverc> a link on https://xubuntu.org/release/19-10/ (to http://mirror.exetel.com.au/pub/ubuntu/xubuntu-releases/19.10/release/) shows as 404; they haven't mirrored 19.10 is the problem; want me to log/report somewhere?  (or no point; there's nothing you can do about mirrors quite possibly)
<krytarik> guiverc: I see that's the main Australia one, and while it's true that we won't go and make the mirror work, someone who has access to the website can of course just drop it and make another one the main.  And also, the same is true for the 18.04.4 release.
<guiverc> :)    (didn't think to try 18.04.4; newer even than 19.10 so makes sense not having that also)
<krytarik> Yeah, it occurred to me that they might have stopped updating at some point generally, so I checked.. :/
<knome> JackFrost, the box in /irc looks like it works for me?
<knome> but all of the pages should be working now
<knome> aarnet made the main australian mirror, exetel dropped from the list
<knome> i've also made all of the pages i touched gutenberg, so a bit less work in converting the pages
<bluesabre> jphilips, we only added the Super+L shortcut. The team hasn't been very active this cycle to move on other proposals. When we suggested adjusting the panel size, I think the conversation broke down to everybody sharing their current panel layout and no progress was made. I personally use a 28px panel, so I might bring it up again shortly prior to UI Freeze.
<jphilips> bluesabre: Super+L was added before i made the proposal :D
<bluesabre> JackFrost: Not had a chance to consider it recently. Been tied up at work, and recent news makes it seem like I'll be working harder for the foreseeable future.
<bluesabre> x.x
<jphilips> have proposed some of the shortcuts upstream so that it might trickle into xubuntu that way - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16470
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16470 in Keyboard Settings "Improve the default shortcut keys" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> jphilips: nice, that's definitely the best way to get things into Xubuntu :)
<jphilips> proposed xfce also add some of xubuntu's good shortcuts. would be nice if all xfce desktops all had the same ones
<jphilips> would like to contribute some UI improvements before the freeze next month, but not sure how feasible they would to getting in
<knome> best way is to talk about them
<jphilips> downloaded the latest daily so i could go through it thoroughly, but one would be the addition of some launchers after the whisker menu button
<astraljava> brainwash: Finally had a chance to test on a new user. There it seems to work, so it's gotta be some of my settings. But I don't understand which.
<jphilips> found a bug in the offline documentation. should i file it on launchpad and if so where
<jphilips> was the disabling/hiding of the 'Lock Screen' button in the whisker menu intentional, as it was there in 19.10 but gone in 20.04
<jphilips> is there a git repo to submit patches to?
<pleia2> jphilips: this page had all the links https://xubuntu.org/contribute/documentation/
<pleia2> including the git repo, and where we track bugs
<pleia2> and thank you :) we really need more eyes on the documentation
<pleia2> especially with the LTS coming up
<jphilips> pleia2: had already seen the git repo info for documentation, but not sure whether the bug i saw is a bug or not
<jphilips> meaning if it is a bug with doc or a bug in whisker menu
<jphilips> in 19.10, the whisker menu has the 'lock screen' button, but its gone in 20.04. was this intentional?
<pleia2> I don't know, but hopefully someone here does and can chime in when they're around
<brainwash> jphilips: check https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/log/
<jphilips> brainwash: thanks
<jphilips> guess this is it - https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=a2b3677aae988b469c7ad6a7eaad25590d5b2bd9
<brainwash> anything wrong with it?
<jphilips> the commit says 'Remove lock menu option in live since locking is disabled'
<jphilips> which is true, but then the documentation says the icon should be there, which it isnt
<jphilips> so not sure what should be done
<jphilips> bluesabre: what is your thought about this ^^
<brainwash> the live session has documentation for that?
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/KTz8VDM.png
<jphilips> under 'The Panel' it says 'for Settings Manager, Lock Screen and Log Out.'
<brainwash> but it does not mention the live session
<brainwash> you don't enter any user data also
<brainwash> to login
<jphilips> it doesnt mention that this documentation isnt applicable to the live session either
<jphilips> its describing the whisker menu which is available in both
<jphilips> guess the best fix is to modify documentation and after 'Lock Screen' have ' (not in live session)' or something like that
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-27
<bluesabre> !team | I'll be publishing a post tomorrow announcing the 20.04 wallpaper contest. Submissions are currently open, and we'll allow submissions through March 13th. Then we should vote over the course of the following week and announce the results and upload on the following weekend. Please let me know if any of this is a problem, and if you can, review the submission terms for any needed changes.
<ubottu> I'll be publishing a post tomorrow announcing the 20.04 wallpaper contest. Submissions are currently open, and we'll allow submissions through March 13th. Then we should vote over the course of the following week and announce the results and upload on the following weekend. Please let me know if any of this is a problem, and if you can, review the submission terms for any needed changes.: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slic
<bluesabre> https://contest.xubuntu.org/
<bluesabre> Thanks knome for getting the site back up to snuff :)
<bluesabre> jphilips: yeah, the clarification that the icon will only be displayed on a non-live session makes sense.
<bluesabre> !team | (reiterated since the list got cut short, see above)
<ubottu> (reiterated since the list got cut short, see above): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<astraljava> brainwash: It was simply the setting in Window Manager > Focus > New window focus. I didn't know to suspect it, as I had only tinkered with the ones in Window Manager Tweaks. Or so I thought, now I'm not sure. :) Sorry for the noise.
<brainwash> astraljava: glad that you figured it out
<jphilips> bluesabre: okay will make the documentation change.
<jphilips> pleia2: cloned git, created the patch, so now what should i do
<jphilips> does xfce and xubuntu share any documentation
<flocculant> jphilips: not as far as I remember - though we do get the xfce help pages from xfce applications
<flocculant> and of course it could have changed in the last 18 months
<jphilips> flocculant: thanks. just looking to do more things upstream so that xubuntu and other xfce distros can all benefit, which reduces duplicated efforts
<flocculant> jphilips: the xubuntu docs are just that - xubuntu docs, don't believer there is any duplication, but I've been out of the loop for a while now
<flocculant> the xubuntu docs should cover what we have as default and the specific differences we get from using Xubuntu
<jphilips> bluesabre, ochosi: what do you guys think of including a startup welcome app like other distros like ubuntu mate, linux mint, manjaro, etc. have?
<jphilips> i've contributed to the ubuntu mate welcome
<flocculant> that got looked into in the past too :D
<flocculant> don't think it got far because no-one that had time iirc
<flocculant> I'd hazard a guess that it's be best to look at that post LTS release, when I was in team we'd not add something new this late in the LTS cycle (and as the QA lead I'd have had kittens :p )
<jphilips> flocculant: if we'd go with the version in manjaro, it mainly links to external urls, so very little work would be needed.
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/HS1fAxh.png
<flocculant> jphilips: maybe little work would be needed - but it'd still need testing etc
<brainwash> I'd think that everyone just closes the welcome screen anyway
<flocculant> anyway could well be speaking out of turn
<flocculant> brainwash: I'd certainly just hit the start installer button
<brainwash> more like a nag screen :)
<flocculant> and I thought the Mate one had options to choose etc? 
<brainwash> we got a shortcut for that on the desktop
<jphilips> i close it as well, as i've seen it before, but for people who never saw it, they'd atleast look over it to once
<jphilips> hopefully the community who isnt involved might start getting involved once they see a button about it
<brainwash> the xubuntu website has all the links already though
<jphilips> yes it would but what would make a user visit the xubuntu website after downloading the iso
<jphilips> yes it does*
<jphilips> is there a simple means to build xfce components on xubuntu?
<jphilips> pleia2: installer documentation pointing to https://docs.xubuntu.org/1804/
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-28
<JackFrost> apt-get build-dep $xfce-component;get the source;build?
<bluesabre> Alrighty, going to go ahead and announce the wp contest on the website/twitter
<bluesabre> pleia2, knome, we had stickers for the winners last time around... do we still have some of those available?
<JackFrost> Nothing is pending on me, right?
<bluesabre> JackFrost: nope, not that I'm aware of
<flocculant> Good luck with the future everyone :)
<knome> bluesabre, pleia2 is the sticker stocker
<knome> flocculant, o/
<jphilips> i'm submitting a number of patches to thunar upstream and wonder how would they get added into 1.4.x branch so they can arrive in 20.04
<bluesabre> !info thunar focal
<ubottu> thunar (source: thunar): File Manager for Xfce. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.8.12-1 (focal), package size 294 kB, installed size 1063 kB
<bluesabre> jphilips: we're shipping 1.8.x in 20.04
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks, you know we'll need it :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: sorry my mistake i was thinking of the xfce number. so 20.04 will be shipping the latest master or the last tagged 1.8.x version
<brainwash> 1.8.x
<brainwash> master is heading towards Xfce 4.15
<jphilips> brainwash: so do patches to master have to be cherry picked for 1.8.x
<brainwash> if the Xfce devs haven't done it, then yes, distros have to apply them manually (if possible)
<jphilips> do the xfce devs normally automatically do this, or do we have to ask them to do it
<brainwash> usually, fixes are applied to both branches, but visual or behavior changes may not
<brainwash> see https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16391
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16391 in General "filename column is too narrow when resized with a double-click" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<jphilips> yes i see the two patches but dont see where it mentions which branch its applying to
<brainwash> committer did not mention it :/
<brainwash> there are not many branches though, so it is kinda obvious
<brainwash> current stable and master
<jphilips> brainwash: cant you check on this - 16474
<jphilips> sorry this - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10851
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10851 in General "owner/group column" [Enhancement,Resolved: wontfix]
<brainwash> what you mean?
<brainwash> you want to fix that?
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you have this one on your radar? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15455
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15455 in General "creating an smb share saves a wrong port" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> one of your fixes broke it
<bluesabre> Keep forgetting about that one, but adding it to my list to hopefully tackle this weekend
<bluesabre> Published the wp blog post so we can start the contest :)
<jphilips> brainwash: if you could, that would be great, but if not maybe some pointers for me to try
<bluesabre> pleia2, knome, promoted via tweet, facebook could use a share as well :)
<pleia2> bluesabre: yes, I still have stickers
<pleia2> and shared on fb
<bluesabre> <3
<Priem19> Hey, about the wallpaper contest. Are the submission already being curated? Because my upload doesn't seem to show up. So I'm wondering if the photo is too bad, or my browser is blocking a successful upload
<ochosi> JackFrost: is whiskermenu in xubuntu 19.10 built against garcon >= 0.6.2?
<bluesabre> Priem19: no curation going on currently. If its not uploading, the file size might be too large.
<Priem19> what's the max?
<Priem19> bluesabre, 
<Priem19> first upload worked, thanks
<Priem19> I'm guessing the limit is 5mb
<JackFrost> ochosi: Is it supposed to have been?  Same SONAME.
<JackFrost> But considering versions and buildlog, yes.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-29
<ochosi> JackFrost: k, was just wondering because it doesnt seem to use thr Keywords from 
<ochosi> .desktop files and the code says that it does that stsrting with garcon 0
<ochosi> 0.6.2
<Priem19> Is there any way to remove some uploaded wallpaper contest submission?
<Priem19> I tweaked the level on a photo last night, with my screen dimmed, but only now I see some white colors are overexposed
<Priem19> Ah I see it's because of compression; saving at 99%. Anyway, any possibility in removing a pic?
<Priem19> https://contest.xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/meadow_crop_96pct.png
<Priem19> this one
<jphilips> bluesabre: ^^^
<Priem19> This PC is shutting down, but I'm still listening with cubo-cube 
<bluesabre> For Priem19 if he returns, try uploading the wallpaper as a jpg instead of png
<xubuntu19> hello
<JackFrost> cubo-cube: It's been recommended that you upload jpgs instead.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-01
<cubo-cube> JackFrost, okay so jpgs instead, should I reupload everything? Or wait until the contest is over and see if my submission get selected.
<cubo-cube> I don't know about your preferences, but I don't like duplicates.
<bluesabre> jpgs compress better for photos
<bluesabre> knome, what would you recommend for replacing or deleting already uploaded submissions?
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-clipman-plugin 1.4.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-clipman-plugin-1-4-4-released-tp57505.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<ochosi> bluesabre, JackFrost: i haven't heard from ofourdan in a while, but i have two patches which could/should make it into xubuntu 20.04 ideally, see here:
<ochosi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16382
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16382 in General "tabwin doesn't reselect tabwin_widget->selected" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16381
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16381 in General "Don't draw shadows on maximized windows" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> both are sort of cosmetic, but also quite annoying once you notice them
<ochosi> the latter one is even a bit misleading and ugly if you ask me
<jphilips> Super + D was introduced with 19.10 for show desktop, but it doesnt work for me on my installed 19.10 or 20.04 live session
<ali1234> on 20.04 the panel has shadows
<jphilips> if i press Super + D in thunar, it acts like if i'm not pressing Super at all and shows 'd' for search
<brainwash> jphilips: is it set to super+d?
<jphilips> brainwash: yes
<brainwash> on my system it is not because I installed it before this change
<brainwash> https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml?id=4f8124a0669462a5ff86017043ab4cc068ae4b1e
<jphilips> brainwash: well you can set it in window manager and see if it works for you
