#edubuntu 2005-12-12
<mherweg> I'll just take my own /opt/ltsp
<amu> moin 
<ogra> hey amu !!!!
<ogra> mherweg, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/multiarch/
<ogra> copy the ltsp-build-client and ltsp-update-kernels to your system ... (/usr/sbin/)
<\sh> hey amu :)
<ogra> then ltsp-build-client has an --arch i386 option
<amu> ogra: wanna check if you converted to a kde guy, heard you wanna replace gnome, here i'm ;)
<ogra> haha
<ogra> i'll never convert ;)
<ogra> but its good to see you here :)
<amu> :) we'll see  
<ogra> i converted once .... to GNOME :)
<amu> checkput the kiosktools a wounderfull thing for edubuntu, especially for schools *g* 
<amu> s/checkput/checkout  
<ogra> amu, they cant cope with sabayon
<Absorto> ogra, i upgraded to backported kde3.5 packages. The bug is fixed.
<ogra> great :)
<ogra> glad you got it running 
<Absorto> yes! I'm glad too. 
<ogra> :)
<Burgwork> is there a complete list of applications included in edubuntu on the wiki?
<ogra> yes ...
<ogra> not on the wiki though 
<Burgwork> do I have to cut apart edubuntu-meta?
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/desktop
<mherweg> can I use a ISDN card to go online with an edubuntu-server ?
<ogra> there is a section = EduBuntu specific Software =
<ogra> mherweg, yup
<Burgwork> ogra, cheers
<ogra> Burgwork, thats the desktop part ...
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/seeds/edubuntu-breezy/server
<ogra> thats for the server
<Lord_Athur> mhz_stuff, !!!!
<Lord_Athur> 
<Burgwork> ogra, thanks
<Burgwork> ogra, is there also a list of rejected apps?
<ogra> there are none 
<ogra> thats the list we worked out with the teachers at the first edubuntu summit ...
<ogra> we'll have another summit (i hope) for dapper+1
<ogra> the prob is that i'm already at 680MB with this list ... there is not much space left
<Burgwork> cool
<ogra> i'd love to drop th ekdeedu stuff if there were some equivlent in gnome ... then i could get rid of the kdelibs and the kde language packs ... they take a hell lot of space
* Absorto likes kde.
<ogra> Absorto, yes, but mixing gnome and KDE is not a good idea space wise 
<ogra> amU, is probably building a kedubuntu ...
<mherweg> good idea
<Absorto> ogra, now that you mention it... how would one go about removing all things gnome now that i've setup kubuntu-destkop?
<ogra> remove th elowest level... i.e. look for libgtk or libgnome ...
<ogra> it will take the depending stuff with it
<Absorto> let's see...
<Absorto> why, that seems about right! removing libgnome2-0...
<mherweg> Absorto: how did you install kde ? do you use kdm ?
<Absorto> mherweg, i apt-got kubuntu-desktop. And yes, kdm.
<mherweg> ok
<Burgwork> ogra, we are just talking at work here about including some education software and the lead developer has just about vetoed any kde libs
<ogra> heh
<ogra> that gets hard ... kdeedu is a great suite ....
<Burgwork> yes
<Burgwork> have you looked at childsplay (I haven't, just wondering)
<ogra> yes
<Burgwork> how does it compare to gcompris?
<ogra> its as big as gcompris and aims to be the successor
<ogra> but crrently i thing gcompris has more contributors ...
<mherweg> LTSP became very similar ti lessdisks since MueKow, i did not read the ltsp website & ML for a while 
<mherweg> /usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client: line 274: debconf-get-selections: command not found
<mherweg> ?
<mherweg> serios or not ?
<ogra> heh... intresting ...
<ogra> try to comment line 274 
<Absorto> ogra, is it very difficult to net-boot a thick client? I was thinking i could use nss-mysql to take care of authentication etc. and with a P4 and 256MB ram this clients aren't very thin.
<mherweg> now it starts to download everything again :-(  i need some kind of proxy
<mherweg> Absorto: knoppix terminalserver is for diskless fat clients
<Absorto> mherweg, i tried that, but its knoppix flavour. A kubuntu flavour would rock!
<ogra> mherweg, use --mirror file://cdrom if you gont a CD
<ogra> *got
<mherweg> try to use the knoppix technology (unionfs) on top of kubuntu
<ogra> it will be in dapper 
<Absorto> i think remastering knoppix to make it kubuntu is too much effort...
<ogra> (unionfs)
<ogra> its been highly unstable until some weeks ago
<mherweg> ogra: cool ! thanks - MUCH faster
<ogra> :)
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> bye
<mherweg> the terminal is booting to console login:   - but it takes a lot of time, LTSP becomes slower with every Version
<ogra> nope
<ogra> it becomes faster
<ogra> it *can* only become faster
<ogra> since we started off with 90sec ;)
<ogra> my current setup boots in 61sec ... and for dapper release it will be down to 45sec
<mherweg> ltsp 2.x was the first and the fastest that I know: a kernel , a script, an X-server - nothing more
<ogra> yes, but non upgradeable ...
<mherweg> i know
<ogra> the prob in breezy is (as you see on all the error mesages while booting) that we install a normal bases system 
<ogra> for dapper i made a lot of tweaks to make a real minimal system out of it ...
<ogra> indeed you have to pay for a default ubuntu kernel and 100% X autodetection...
<mherweg> i see
<ogra> as well as hrdware detection in general
<ogra> the advantage is that you can plug in *every* client into ubuntu ...
<ogra> classic ltsp boots in less than 20sec
<ogra> but has a non modular kernel and no X detection
<ogra> compare http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/breezy-20051113-1.png with http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051205-1.png , thats my work of the last weeks ...
<mherweg> ic
<ogra> we'll cut down the X detection by about 10 sec and we'll achieve ~15sec from the normal ubuntu bootprocess speedup going on ...
<ogra> and there is still space to optimize more in dapper+1
<JayAllen> Sigh.
<JayAllen> Bought a NetGear FA311. Plugged it in. STILL no network.
<mhz_stuff> re
<paolob> Hi ogra 
<paolob> hi mhz
<mhz> paolob: hi man
<paolob> mhz, ogra, I keep having problems with the clients' boot. After "nfs-premount...Done" some client (sometimes a bigger number, sometimes a lesser one) waits a very very long time: 10-15-30 minutes!!!! What could be the reason? what could I do?
<mhz> hmmmmmmm
* mhz thinking
<Lord_Athur> how can I umount the cd-rom when the cd is being used for something
<paolob> Lord_Athur: I think you definitely must stop using it.
<mhz> Lord_Athur: usually, you have to make sure the /cd dir is not being used by someone
<Lord_Athur> using what?
<paolob> or kill the program that is using it
<mhz> then, you'll be able to umount it
<Lord_Athur> then, how can I know what's using it?
<mhz> hmmm, good question
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<mhz> if you are the only user...
<mhz> simply changing to your home dir will do
<Lord_Athur> and the root
<Lord_Athur> I work more as root
<mhz> ??????????/
<mhz> Lord_Athur: you should not do that
<Lord_Athur> why?
<mhz> esp. if you dont know how to stop and umount your cd :D
<Lord_Athur> my user is not in the sudo group
<Lord_Athur> this does not allow me to work very well
<pc22> Lord_Athur u using edubuntu now?
<mhz> Lord_Athur: mounting or umounting is not 'dangerous'
<mhz> so you could let all users do that
<Lord_Athur> pc22, no, I am using debian
<Lord_Athur> mhz, 
<mhz> what?
<Lord_Athur> the terminal told me that only the root can umount the cd-rom
<Lord_Athur> from tomorrow I will not have debian
<Lord_Athur> :D
<mhz> Lord_Athur: then, as root, do this: adduser tu_mismo cdrom
<pc22> is edubuntu cool?
<mhz> pc22: indeed
<mhz> of course!
<mhz> pc22: edubuntu = Ubuntu + LTSP (modified) + educational apps.
<mhz> so it is ubuntu
<mhz> and if you like ubuntu... edubuntu is cool
<paolob> Lord_Athur: fuser /cdrom
<paolob> mhz: no idea about that delay problem?
<mhz> paolob: I was googling about it
<mhz> but no ida yet :(
<mhz> did you ask the #ltsp guys?
<paolob> Some client boot quite rapidly, others last very much to get the graphic login. 
<mhz> and if you change the boot order is the same thing?
<paolob> mhz: what boot order?
<paolob> I boot all the clients together
<mhz> per clients. I mean if you boot #3 , #4,  #5 and then boot all over again #4, #3, #5 ?
<mhz> (was an example)
<pc22> mhz whats ltsp?
<mhz> Linux Terminal Server Project
<paolob> mhz: is it wrong to boot all the clients together?
<mhz> pc22: 1 central server (powerful) connected to # of thin old clients (with no HD)
<mhz> paolob: mhhh, i dont know, that's why I suggested that option
<mhz> to find out if the problem still existed in that booting sequence
<mhz> :)
<paolob> mhz: tomorrow I'm going to try out booting the clients one at a time
<mhz> good idea
<mhz> or boot group of 2 or 3 at the same time
<mhz> the idea is to get a picture of what the possible causes may be
* paolob is going to bed
<paolob> Well, thanks all! Good night!
<mhz> paolob: sleep well
<mhz> count some sheeps?
<paolob> :-) Voy a soar con los angelitos :-)
<mhz> oh de veraas?
<mhz> hi all
<mhz> highvoltage: awake?
<highvoltage> mhz: barely
<highvoltage> mhz: just arrived at work
<mhz> cool
<mhz> I am about to go to bed
<mhz> and wanted to know if you saw what hno73 did to TOC site? (you helped him?)
<mhz> re
<mhz> sorry, bad mouse!
<highvoltage> mhz: sorry, got distracted. no, i didn't help him.
<highvoltage> link?
<mhz> http://new-www.theopencd.org/Welcome
<mhz> gee
<mhz> that url was hard to get
<mhz> I really think he (they?) did an amzing job
<mhz> and it's moin! :D
<mhz> highvoltage: so, what you think?
<highvoltage> it looks nice!
<mhz> ok
<mhz> highvoltage: when do you think it will be possible to test/help Drupal for Edubuntu?
<highvoltage> but like hno73 said, you can do anything visually, it's just a matter of editing the stylesheets.
<mhz> yup
<mhz> and he also did some tweaking here and there
<mhz> and used some naughty boy tricks :)
<highvoltage> heh
<mhz> highvoltage: when do you think it will be possible to test/help Drupal for Edubuntu?
* highvoltage makes mental note to answer mhz when he's back
<jeffbuntu> hi, i've a little problem with evince (edubuntu5.10) it can't open one pdf file ==> evince-thumbnailer take 100%cpu endless (but acrobat can open this file) ?
<ulinskie> is there a live cd for edubuntu available for download?
<konfuzed> actually just saw an interesting article regarding http://opencd.org which is based on ubunutu plus some extras and you can easily add the edu package to after the primary install
<konfuzed> uh rather
<konfuzed> uf you choose to install
<konfuzed> it also runs ubuntu live cd I suppose
<JaneW> **Reminder** Weekly Dev Update meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 30 mins
<crimsun> crap, I'd better get coffee right now then :)
<ogra> heh
* ogra waits for the kino build to finish ...
<janeW> highvoltage: ping -> #ubuntu-meeting please
<zakame> edubuntu meeting now?
<ogra> yes
<zakame> heya mhz :D
<mhz> hey..
* mhz running to leave
<highvoltage> janeW: pong, been in important meeting
<highvoltage> (not that edubuntu is unimportant)
<Lord_Athur> ogra, or ogra_
<Lord_Athur> what's the person that made edubuntu8?
<lucasvo> Lord_Athur: ogra :D
<ogra> edubuntu8 ?
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> we are only at edubuntu1 yet ;)
<Lord_Athur> jejeje the number was an error
<lucasvo> Lord_Athur: Shuttleworth
<Lord_Athur> what's that lucasvo ?
<lucasvo> Lord_Athur: the man who pays ogra
<lucasvo> Lord_Athur: canonical?
<Lord_Athur> I know something about canonical
<Lord_Athur> but is  Shuttleworth here?
<Lord_Athur> well i was only searching mhz
<Lord_Athur> and he is not here
<Lord_Athur> I'll see in the channel after any minutes
<Lord_Athur> by
<Lord_Athur> e
<lucasvo> ldm themes aren't gdm compatible, are they?
<ogra> not really
<ogra> i mean it uses similar wording for the pics, so GDM themes may work on ldm ... but not the other way around, since i dont use xml files 
<lucasvo> ok
<paolob> hi ogra 
<ogra> hi
<highvoltage> hi ogra and paolob 
<paolob> You know, I keeps having problems with the clients' boot
<paolob> hi highvoltage 
<juliux> hi paolob highvoltage ogra 
<juliux> ;)
<paolob> hi juliux 
<highvoltage> hi juliux :) (and everyone else)
<paolob> ogra: they have a loooooooooong delay (15-30 minutes!) after executing the script nfs-remount.
<highvoltage> geepers, i would've gotten impatient after 10 minutes.
<paolob> Some client never arrive to present the gui
<ogra> i have no idea, sounds rather like a network thing ...
<highvoltage> sounds like some kind of lookup not happening, to take a guess.
<paolob> I think the problem is in the nfs script, in the nfsmount instrccions: I may guess it is expecting something like a IP address.
<highvoltage> did you enter a hostname instead?
<paolob> I saw another strange thing too: the server's syslog reports me that every client, after receiving its IP, negotiates another during the first stages of the boot. Is it normal?
<highvoltage> yep.
<highvoltage> etherboot or pxe will request an address.
<highvoltage> and when linux starts up, it will request an address again.
<paolob> highvoltage: but then, what of the two is going to be the client's IP?
<highvoltage> both, they should be the same.
<paolob> ?!?
<highvoltage> dhcpd will create a lease period for that client based on the network card's mac address
<highvoltage> so it will get the same IP address both times when it requests an address.
<paolob> no, they are different!
<highvoltage> that's very, very strange.
<paolob> I tried with only one client. Syslog shows:
<paolob> dhcp: DHCPDISCOVER
<paolob> dhcp: DHCPOFFER 192.168.0.250
<paolob> dhcp: DHCPREQUEST 192.168.0.250
<paolob> dhcp: DHCPACK 192.168.0.250
<paolob> mountd: authenticated mountrequest from 192.168.0.177 for /opt/ltsp/i386
<paolob> dhcp: DHCPOFFER 192.168.0.249
<paolob> dhcp: DHCPREQUEST 192.168.0.249
<paolob> dhcp: DHCPACK 192.168.0.249
<paolob> dhcp: DHCPREQUEST 192.168.0.249
<paolob> dhcp: DHCPACK 192.168.0.249
<paolob> 
<paolob> What does it mean? In particular that 177 from mountd in the middle....
<highvoltage> i don't know. i wish i could be there to check in person, i haven't seen that before.
<highvoltage> was only one client switched on at this point?
<highvoltage> and do you only have one dhcp server running on the network?
<paolob> highvoltage: there was only one client, and the server is one computer.
<paolob> highvoltage: the server has a /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and a /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf . Are there two dhcpd servers?
<ogra> dont touch the latter ....
<ogra> its the generic dhcpd file ...
<ogra> what ip did the booted client have in your above example ?
<ogra> apparently 192.168.0.177 mounted the rootfs 
<ogra> so i'd guess the clients ip was the same
<paolob> ogra: that was before the nfs-premount delay
<ogra> the nfs-* scripts are just empty dummys 
<ogra> the problem must be somethjing else
<paolob> ogra: but they are there, and are executed! They are in (let me try to remember) /usr/share/......./scripts/nfs-***
<ogra> look into such a script...
<ogra> and they are not executed from /usr/share ;)
<paolob> ogra: actually I saw the script i have the delay in there
<ogra> its empty ...
<paolob> I am not on the server, the server still isn't on the internet
<ogra> none of the nfs-* scripts have any content ...
<ogra> after the nfs-* scrpts are executed the nfs script is run, but that also only contains one line that matters ...
<paolob> ogra: but I _did_ open the script/nfs file, and it wasn't empty. It called script/nfs-top, then script/nfs-premount, then had a nfsmount <parameters>, and then called script/nfs-bottom
<ogra> read what i wrote
<paolob> ogra: but then what the hell did I see?
<ogra> the nfs script (note, not the nfs-* scripts) has one valid line, thats just calling nfsmount 
<paolob> I think that the delay is there
<ogra> the rest is empty and thought for possible enhancements in the future
<ogra> yes, but that can only be the nfsmount command ...
<ogra> which would either indicate a network problem or something being wrong with the nfs server
<paolob> How can I get more information on that nfsmount? Syslog doesn't tell me anything till the mount is done. I must understand why it lasts so much
<ogra> you have the mount attempt in your log above ...
<ogra> mountd: authenticated mountrequest from 192.168.0.177 for /opt/ltsp/i386
<paolob> Actually I could see various DHCPOFFER/REQUEST/ACK with various IP
<ogra> ignore that
<ogra> the only intresting piece is the mountrequest line
<ogra> or do you run any other dhcp server in the network ? 
<paolob> ogra: but apparently the client doesn't find a valid IP to mount, apparently it tryed many IP before finding the right one
<paolob> ogra: when I installed edubuntu I was in a net with this pc, I think it has a dhcp server... let me see
<ogra> tzhere is only one mount attempt in your log above
<paolob> ~$ ps ax|grep dhcp
<paolob>  7584 ?        Ss     0:00 /usr/sbin/dhcpd3 -q eth0
<paolob> Yes I have
<paolob> better, I had when I first installed edubuntu and had it working with a client
<paolob> now the server only is connected to its clients
<ogra> the above looks like you have running two ...
<paolob> ogra: i.e I have two dhcpd server on the same edubuntu server?
<ogra> that doesnt work 
<ogra> nope, i mean you have two servers running in the net
<paolob> ogra: but the server isn't connected to the net :-)
<ogra> what ip does the server have ? 
<paolob> ogra: 192.168.0.15
<paolob> I put that address because I think to connect it in the future to a local net where the IP 192.168.0.1-10 are already in use
<ogra> thats fine 
<paolob> ogra: how can I debug the nfsmount process?
<ogra> thats 
<ogra> how a normal dhcp handshake looks on n edubuntu http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5486
<paolob> ogra: I can try to bring here a copy of syslog. Or is some better log file?
<lucasvo> gaim is so buggy
<lucasvo> *crap* !
<ogra> paolob: you can paste it anywhere 
<ogra> but i'm running out of time
<ogra> we have a developer meeting at 3am (my time) today and i have to prepare a lot
<paolob> ogra: anyway it will be tomorrow
<ogra> use pastebin, as the topic suggests
* paolob thank ogra and all the other edubuntu developpers
<lucasvo> ogra: 3am? poor ogra :D
<ogra> yup, rotating time ...
<paolob> bye all
<Absorto> hello! say... i just logged into a thin cilent and there's no loopback interface
<Absorto> i believe that's making things difficult to the portmaper. how come there's no lo?
<Absorto> I read /etc/network/interfaces and it's there, but it's down.
<Lord_Athur> anybody know anything about mhz?
<ogra> he is from chile :)
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<Lord_Athur> but I had to meet him this morning and he did not call me
<Lord_Athur> and he is not here
<Lord_Athur> :S
<ogra> he was shotrly in the edubuntu meeting today and sent his update to the mailing list since he couldnt stay until the end of the meeting
<ogra> dunno what he did during the day
<Lord_Athur> what does the word shotrly mean?
<ogra> shortly
<Lord_Athur> has it got a synonim?
<ogra> was a typo
<ogra> short ...
<Lord_Athur> jajaja
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Gnimsh> hi
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Gnimsh> Just wondering what the difference is between ubuntu and edubuntu?
<ogra> mainly LTSP 
<ogra> the educational apps 
<Gnimsh> I don't know that is
<Gnimsh> what that is*
<ogra> and different artwork
<Gnimsh> oh
<ogra> the linux terminal server project
<ogra> by default the CD installs a terminal server you can use with diskless clients in a classroom
<Gnimsh> oh I see. the artwork does look like its for kids
<Gnimsh> cool
<Lord_Athur> ogra,will we be able to make our own graphical enviroment for edubuntu?
<Lord_Athur> someone with an unique and special artwork
<Lord_Athur> can this be possible as an official edubuntu project?
<ogra> not offical, but thats possible ...
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> then, does edubuntu want to continue with gnome officially ?
<Absorto> how about edkubuntu?
<Lord_Athur> edubuntu with kubuntu?
<Absorto> yeah, perhaps!
<Lord_Athur> I'd be same to edubuntu with gnome
<Lord_Athur> kde & gnome are of other projects of ubuntu, It would not be in edubuntu
<ogra> not officially ...
<ogra> but feel free to create it ;)
<Absorto> yeah, i guess you can have it if you really want it. In fact, I do. I installed edubuntu and am enjoying ltsp much. But then installed kubuntu-desktop and am in bliss.
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> is there a way to download a version of edubuntu to modify?
<ogra> cdimage.ubuntu.com
<ogra> grab the iso and modify it
<Lord_Athur> mmm
<Lord_Athur> haven't you got a wiki page (or a howto) to visit and learn about modifying distros?
<ogra> i gave it to you ... 6 or 8 times in the last 2 weeks ...
<ogra> search the wiki, for install CD customization
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> But i am asking about change programs create other delete any applications, change the distro and save the new one in a cd
<ogra> yes
<Lord_Athur> But i am asking about change programs, create other, delete any applications. change the distro and save the new one in a cd
<ogra> exactly
<Lord_Athur> ?
<Lord_Athur> what's that?
<ogra> you grab the iso and modify it ...
<ogra> add/remove apps etc
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> jejeje
<Lord_Athur> I will not ask it again 
<Lord_Athur> :P
<ogra> just read the wiki page any try it ;)
<Lord_Athur> jejejei will
<Absorto> I have a question! I read in ltsp that you can run apps localy. I don't want to run nis, I want nss-mysql. So, for the time being, I just added a line to my /etc/passwd and created a /etc/shadow with my encrypted password. I then tried to mount /home from the app server and... well, I couldn't find an easy way to do it!
<Absorto> so i just added a line in ltsp-client-setup, to append the appropiate line in fstab. It worked!
<Absorto> but I don't understand how. 'cause /etc/exports says nothing about /home! how did it mount it if it is not being exported?
<Absorto> is it more of that ssh tunneling magic?
<ogra> nope... ssh is unrelated 
<Absorto> then... how does it do it?
<ogra> i'm pretty sure you broke it already with installing KDM
<Absorto> well... I didn't! but i had to hack a bit.
<ogra> so you wont be using any ssh tunnel anymore ...
<Absorto> oh, yeah, no ssh tunneling anymore
<Absorto> but... what about the nfs? i don't understand!
<ogra> me neither 
<Absorto> well, anyways, it mounted /home ro so I had to modify /etc/exports to add rw
<Absorto> but then, even tho it mounted rw it was terribly slow.
<Absorto> well, i did this: i chrooted to /opt/ltsp/i386 and apt-got kubuntu-desktop
<Absorto> then I booted the client and logged in. I added startkde to .xinitrc and ran startx -- :1 
<Absorto> I had a terribly slow kde session!
<ogra> sure
<ogra> you dont run *any* ltsp anymore
<Absorto> i suspected the portmap, since I saw some errors on boot
<ogra> you run a netbooting fullclinet
<Absorto> well.. yes. I do. Did I just reinvent the wheel?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> highvoltage does the same for his thick clients... 
<Absorto> well... you see, this clients arent quite thin, having pentium 4s and 256 mb ram...
<ogra> but you need a big client for that 
<ogra> thats not much
<Absorto> yeah, i have 'em!
<Absorto> well, it's enough to run kde :)
<ogra> they will break if you dont add a kind of network swapping
<Absorto> oh, I thought so.
<Absorto> I will.
<ogra> they will just shut down if the 356M are used up
<ogra> *256
<Absorto> just shut down? wow!
<ogra> yup
<Absorto> sound pretty interesting to me :)
<ogra> the kernel has not enough ram anymore, so it kills the X server
<ogra> with no warning
<Absorto> just like that? awesome!
<ogra> i highly suggest you have a look at nbd
<Absorto> ok, I'll add some swap, i think that shouldn't be too difficult.
<Absorto> what is nbd?
<ogra> it will be slow ....
<ogra> so slow that you will need 1-2 minutes to move the mousepointer from one corner of the screen to the other
<ogra> but it will not shut down
<ogra> nbd = network block device
<ogra> kernel 2.6 has no other option to swap over the network anymore
<Absorto> but what about the swapfiles mounted thru nfs?
<ogra> not anymore 
<ogra> that was an awful hack to kernel 2.4
<ogra> doesnt work wth 2.6
<Absorto> hm!
<ogra> the way to go is nbd ...
<ogra> we have it in the ubuntu kernel by default ...
<ogra> the ltsp scripts are prepared to use it
<Absorto> or I could use local swapfiles...
<Absorto> perhaps I can mount the fat32 and create a swapfile there?
<ogra> sure, but then you need harddisks  and could make local installs and just mount /home from a cerntral server
<Absorto> theres no support for swapfiles whatsoever?
<ogra> sure there is
<Absorto> just not over nfs...
<Absorto> yeah, i have drives. Its just much easier to admin if they net-boot.
<francoisb> Bonsoir  tous
<Absorto> hello!
<Absorto> brb
<francoisb> Trying in french first : J'ai install edubuntu dans une ecole de 3 classes avec 3 utilisateurs. Ets il possible de connecter 2 clients avec le meme utilisateur?
<francoisb> Trying in english : is it possible to use 2 thin client with the same user id?
<ogra> there is a bug in gnome-settings-daemon which will break the themes ...
<ogra> its solved in the next release of gnome ...
<francoisb> I've noticed it.
<ogra> so yes, but you have to live without themes on the second login
<francoisb> I've tried to use Openoffice and the two text opened in the same screen.
<ogra> indeed, its the same desktop ...
<lucasvo> francoisb: the same is with gstreamer apps(also totem)
<francoisb> Wil it be corrected?
<lucasvo> is it possible to use same homedir for 2 users?
<lucasvo> francoisb: it is quite hard to do it
<ogra> francoisb: thats no bug
<lucasvo> one would have to change the whole program, let's say it is not the purpose of the programm to run on two machines with one user
<ogra> if you log in with the same user twice you are logged in to the same desktop twice 
<lucasvo> one could try to use same homedir for 2 users
<ogra> or a shread folder 
<lucasvo> shread?
<ogra> shared
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> yes
<francoisb> I thought that different processes would sent to the two IP of the thin clients.
<lucasvo> there will be problems with chown
<ogra> but using the same user twice on the same machine gives you the same desktop, thats expected behavior and logical ...
<ogra> nope, everything runs on the server 
<ogra> only the display is exported to the clients
<ogra> imagine a PC with two monitors, keyboards and mice ... 
<ogra> (or more than two)
<francoisb> It's for pupils aged 7, I don't want to create one user per person.
<francoisb> So, I think I'll make one user per client, with a shared folder...
<ogra> yup
<ogra> sounds sane
<francoisb> Another question : is it planed to have a preconfigured samba?
<ogra> a samba server ?
<francoisb> Just to exchange files with a Windows PC.
<ogra> you can use nautilus as client for a windows PC/network
<ogra> and the samba server is also installed by default 
<ogra> just configure it with the shared folders admin 
<ogra> it would be a bit pointless to have a preconfigured samba server if you want to integrate it in a windows network .... you need to adjust it anyway to work with the existing net
<francoisb> Installed, yes, but there are lines to write  (chmod for a samba folder, create a samba user.)
<ogra> nope
<ogra> just use the shares admin tool from the menu
<ogra> no need to touch configs
<francoisb> All right, I'll try
<ogra> have to reboot, bbl
<francoisb> Goodbye.
<mhz> re
<Lord_Athur> hi
#edubuntu 2005-12-13
<mhz_cook> ogra: r u here?
<ogra> partially
<ogra> trying to stay awake for my dev meeting at 3am :/
<mhz_cook> :)
<ogra> and preparing stuff
<mhz_cook> Matthias got me ubuntu-cl.org
<ogra> great :)
<mhz_cook> and he got me a moin wiki 
<mhz_cook> indeed
<mhz_cook> but he says I can 'login'
<mhz_cook> using an email address
<mhz_cook> (he provided such address)
<Lord_Athur> I am reinstalling Edubuntu!!!
<Lord_Athur> :D
<mhz_cook> but I dont understand
<Lord_Athur> I left Debian
<mhz_cook> Lord_Athur: cool
<Lord_Athur> :P
<mhz_cook> ogra: you know what he means?
<mhz_cook> ogra: is he meaning an FTP or ssh access?
<ogra> no idea 
<mhz_cook> ok
<ogra> i never used any of smurfs servers
<mhz_cook> me neither, yet
<mhz_cook> 'smurfs' are a special kind?
<ogra> no idea 
<ogra> i never saw one :)
<mhz_cook> ogra: lol
<Yo_como> hasta 5 minutos
<Lord_Athur> hey ogra, I've installed ubuntu and with apt-get I got edubuntu, the artwork is very good!
<ogra> thanks :) 
<Lord_Athur> :P
<Lord_Athur> did you have to modify the artwork of each application?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> the widget and windowmanager themes are the same as ubuntu, i changed the icon theme to gartoon, added a different splash screen and a different default wallpaper
<ogra> thats all...
<Lord_Athur> ap it's looking fine
<Lord_Athur> where are the theme files?
<Lord_Athur> the icons for example
<ogra> they are packaged ... the package installs them in /usr/share/icons
<Lord_Athur> if I chege an icon there, can this make a mistake?
<ogra> it will get overwritten on updates
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> thanks
<ClayG> if install edubuntu will I have to go through all the config'ing to get the ltsp up and running as I would if using a diff dist?
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra> ClayG: ^^^ you need to edit one file post install
<ogra> welcome btw :)
<ClayG> so i can edit one file post install then install edu on what i want to be the thin client?
<ClayG> and thank you
<ogra> nope, you dont install anything on the thin client ...
<ogra> you install edubuntu on the server and just use the bootcd you just built for the client to boot ... everything else works automatically
<ClayG> oh ok i gotcha
<ClayG> I have ubuntu
<ClayG> i just installed the package from synaptic
<ClayG> er
<ogra> oh, ok in this case you have to do everything manually
<mhz> ClayG: but it is very simple
<ClayG> I'm stuck, I made the rom disk
<mhz> ClayG: sorry, what did you get via synaptic?
<mhz> :)
<ClayG> oh
<ClayG> the ltsp package
<mhz> ohh
<ClayG> but i made a cd to boot from
<ClayG> then the next step is to also make a boot floppy?
<mhz> then manually, as ogra said
<ClayG> yup
<ogra> nope, you set up the ltsp ...
* ogra changes chat client
<ogra> ClayG, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowto
<ClayG> For some reason I find that guide hard to read, it seems to be written by developers. I'm checking the ubuntu forums, I can usually get the info there.
<ogra> dont do that
<ogra> thats the only valid document
<ogra> you need to do 3 steps ...
<ogra> install ltsp-server-standalone 
<ogra> install openssh-server
<ogra> run sudo ltsp-build-client 
<mhz> ClayG: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Howto-setup-LTSP-server-on-Ubuntu-Breezy
<ogra> and then just follow the EdubuntuInstallNotes
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPHowTo
<mhz> or, what if you just apt-get remove --purge ...?
<mhz> and then just apt-get install edubuntu-server ?
<ogra> still needs all the manual steps
<mhz> ogra: manual = /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
<ogra> (which are 4, not three, but still, *dont* i repeat *dont* follow the forum docs about this, it will surely break your system)
<ogra> mhz, see above
* mhz obeys ogra 
<mhz> ogra: but I don't recall ever doing that 
<ogra> thats what you have to do if you install ltsp on ubuntu
<mhz> aahhh, he wants LTSP
<mhz> not edubuntu?
<ogra> he has ubuntu 
* mhz had ubuntu too and installed edubuntu-server and edubuntu-desktop
<ogra> which still requires ltsp-build-client and /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf editing :)
<mhz> that's why I dont recall any manual steps
<mhz> well, that .conf, sure
<paolob> Hi guys
<mhz> jsgotangco: thx for the example
<jsgotangco> :)
<lucasvo> hello
<janeW> http://www.bloggingbaby.com/entry/1234000340071196/
<musicacademy> hi
<musicacademy> question :)
<musicacademy> how to configure the terminal server application under edubuntu?
<musicacademy> it is said it comes in a package
<spacey> check the documentation on the website 
* spacey gtg
<spacey> janeW, ping
<spacey> janeW: ping :)
<janeW> spacey: pong
<irvin> hey you're alive! :-)
<janeW> moi?
<irvin> i thought ye were all sleepin
<janeW> nah, it's 4;30pm here
<ogra> Yagisan !
<Yagisan> ogra !
<Yagisan> whats up ?
<ogra> Yagisan, multiatrch is in and accepted, will appear in te next upload
<Yagisan> ogra: Great :-D
<irvin> ogra!
<ogra> Yagisan, i think mdz waits until usplash and ldm are ready on my side ... so it might still take some days
<ogra> hi irvin 
<irvin> ogra, i got the presentation. thanks, i could definitely use it...
<ogra> great
<Yagisan> ogra: ok, but it's good to get the start of the multiarch patches in
<ogra> yes, but i'd still like to tewak it a bit, to make ppc on amd64 and i386 servers possible ... but probably not before dapper+1 
<Yagisan> ogra: I'll try coaxing qemu into helping get ppc on amd64/i386 going (although that didn't go to well a few weeks ago)
<ogra> still waiting on answer for my iMac for 160 :)
* Yagisan no longer has *any* money to spend on computers :(
<ogra> i wonder why ... i rather suspect its a quemu prob ...
<Yagisan> yep - qemu had some trouble with bash IIRC
<Yagisan> simple things such as ls, uname, etc worked
<Yagisan> needed to register a binfmt-misc handler as root (didn't work as sudo) to identify the ppc binaries
<ogra> i'll test with real HW :)
<Yagisan> had to be run with the qemu "interpreter" a la #!/bin/sh
<Yagisan> qemu (or a subsitute) will be needed for the unpack and install of the ltsp chroot
<Yagisan> ogra: Doesn't canonical purchase hardware for you ?
<ogra> Yagisan, thin clients, yes, but the iMac i want myself ... and 160 are a nice price ...
<Yagisan> ogra: ok, you could write that 160 off as a work related expense then
<ogra> yes, from german taxes anyway ;)
* Yagisan realises why my link is so slow
* Yagisan has "guests" leaching his entire repo
<spacey_ki> ogra, that transparant proxy thing didn't work 
<spacey_ki> :/
<spacey_ki> ended up giving a blank page to every internet request
<ogra> spacey_ki, i'll inspect it some more, dont worry ...
<spacey_ki> ogra, actually i found the same line and a few variations online
<spacey_ki> and it works for some people at least
<ogra> currently i'm also looking into this: https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?application=firefox&id=226
<spacey_ki> i just wondered if it might be because of willow
<spacey_ki> i only see squid examples
<ogra> i'll package it and will include it into universe ... then lets see how user feedback an bug reports go
<spacey_ki> btw
<spacey_ki> it also depends on a multiverse package
<spacey_ki> python2.4-profiles
<jsgotangco> err ogra, do you know by any chance who maintains firefox?
<jsgotangco> or anything that is mozilla for that matter?
<spacey_ki> i do think proxy is the way to go to filter content, just some plugin is not really useful imho
<ogra> spacey_ki, very important for home usage
<ogra> if you only have to manage 1-2 accounts for your kids its perfect
<ogra> its not suitable at all for schools indeed :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, Diziet
<ogra> hmm, i wonder why -profiles is in multiverse ... thats bad
<Lord_Athur> hi
<jsgotangco> ogra: right, thanks
<Mez> hey all :D
<mhz> hy
* Yagisan waves hello
<Mez> whats the default admin passwords for postgres in edubuntu
<Mez> to set up moodle
<Lord_Athur> how can I modify the *.cat & *.bin files?
<Lord_Athur> is there a program to do that?
<mhz> Mez: good question but I have no answer :( , maybe ogra knows
<ogra> Mez, there is none
<freelove> what does "Configuring LTSP chroot" mean?
<ogra> leave it blank
<mhz> Yagisan: hey! how is family prob. doing?
<Mez> ogra: then why cant it connect to the database ?
<ogra> Mez, it can here ... is the DB running ? 
<mhz> Lord_Athur: .bin files are binarios, meaning you need to get the sources to generate the binary you need
<Yagisan> mhz: mother-in-law goes into surgery in a few days. We are hoping it goes well.
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> freelove, that the ltsp changeroot gets built
<mhz> Yagisan: ok. And how are you doing?
<freelove> ogra: i made that mistake, left it blank, then edubuntu wont let me log in!!
<ogra> freelove, in postgresql ?
<freelove> it asked me to add my IP address to some conf file
<ogra> you dont log in in postresql
<freelove> ogra: during installation......
<ogra> freelove, you did read the EdubuntuInstallNotes as pointed out everywhere, right ? 
<ogra> (see /topic)
<mhz> freelove: that ip should not affect your login to edubuntu system
<mhz> freelove: that ip setting culd only affect the edubuntu ltsp 
<freelove> but it did:( it did not let me login.......anyways.....
<Yagisan> mhz: somewhat stressed and worried. I'd like to be there with her, but can't make the trip at the moment
<ogra> Mez, you did something wrong during moodle install i guess ... it creates the DB user on install for you and automatically connects to the DB post install
<mhz> Yagisan: wife in Japan?
<ogra> freelove, please read the doc and dont let the password for your admin user blank ..
<mhz> freelove: edubuntu system = server where you installed edubuntu
<mhz> freelove: edubuntu ltsp = setting for ltsp and therefore users from clients
<freelove> ok i got it from the docs.......if i need workstation ive to type that.....otherwise if i press enter, ive to give my IP address during install...
<ogra> exactly
<Yagisan> mhz: no, shes with me. But if mum gets worse, I'll send her.
<ogra> since you act as a classroom server which is edubuntus intention by default ...
<mhz> Yagisan: best wishes to you all
<ogra> this server gives the IPs to all other machines in your net, so it needs a static IP you have to give at install time
<ogra> the workstation version is only an addon ...
<freelove> will edubuntu ALWAYS be here, as long as ubuntu is here? are edubuntu/ubuntu developers same?
<ogra> yup
<mhz> yup
<Yagisan> mhz: thanks mhz.
<ogra> as long as my boss pays me  ;)
<mhz> Yagisan: yw
<mhz> ogra: c'mon!
<freelove> but ubuntu n kubuntu developers aint same, am i right?
* Yagisan read that as "are edubuntu/ubuntu developers sane ?"
<ogra> they are
<mhz> Yagisan: that too :D
<freelove> then why is kubuntu breezy so buggy but ubuntu isn't?
<mhz> ogra: meritocracy says you will
<ogra> freelove, i'm employed by canonical as ubuntu/edubuntu developer, the rest of people helping are volunteers, the same applies to kubuntu, Riddell (the kubuntu main dev) is employed by canonical and the rest of kubuntu devs ar volunteers
<mhz> freelove: cause ogra is not there
<mhz> :)
<ogra> freelove, because Rissled doesnt have as much volunteers ... edubuntu is based on gnome, so i can rely on my colleagues working on ubuntu and gnome ... 
<ogra> err
<ogra> s/Rissled/Riddell
<freelove> oh i seeeeeeeeeeeeeee
<Yagisan> freelove: whatever "app" that is buggy in kubuntu, is also buggy in ubuntu. A bug report to bugzilla for apps in main, or malone for all others is helpful
<ogra> freelove, Riddell has to care for the whole desktop on his own
<freelove> HEY!! i just read in the edubuntu review that ogra here is mark? am i talking to mark shuttleworth??!!!!!!!
<ogra> LOL
<ogra> nope
<Yagisan> freelove: no
<ogra> i'm oliver grawert
<ogra> as ogra might imly
<ogra> imply
<freelove> then?? http://www.bloggingbaby.com/entry/1234000340071196/ its written here.....
<ogra> yes
<ogra> he got a lot wrong
<Yagisan> another one ?
<freelove> oh okkk.....i wish!
<ogra> i have a mail to im pending here that should clearify most of it 
<ogra> mark is "sabdfl" he's in #ubuntu-devel very frequently
<freelove> now i know why kde is not there in edubuntu....it would have been better....:)
<freelove> thanks ogra i'd love to talk to him
<Yagisan> it seems a lot of the reviews have been written by people that could have used edubuntu as children ... :-P
<ogra> you can, he's only human as we all aer ;)
<ogra> *are
<freelove> whr can i find kubutnu developers?
<mhz> freelove: kde can be used with edubuntu
<ogra> freelove, it would have been as buggy as kubuntu then ...
<mhz> #kubuntu
<freelove> it would have been better if kde was default in edubuntu....i mean......kids & families wud loved it......
<Lord_Athur> ogra, where are the icon files in the instalation cd of ubuntu?
<mhz> hmmm, yes and no, freelove 
<Yagisan> freelove: what is so buggy about kubuntu ?
<ogra> freelove, i dont think so... we had a summit with a lot of people and it was decided by the users to take gnome
<freelove> Yagisan: often kubuntu would land me in console mode for no reason.....
* Yagisan thinks icewm might have been a nice choice
<ogra> Lord_Athur, all packages are in the pool directory
<freelove> ogra: i see
<Lord_Athur> ok
<ogra> freelove, amu is thinking about making a kedubuntu as a community project
<Yagisan> freelove: you use nvidia binary drivers ?
<freelove> Yagisan: and when i shut down it would often show me a blank screen for so long.....and then shut down suddenly......
<freelove> Yagisan: no...intel built in ones
<freelove> ogra: that would be great!!!!!!!1
<mhz> Yagisan: any icewm close experience with real cool customization of it?
<freelove> i'd love to use ubuntu, but only if gnome were a bit better.....
<ogra> freelove, but there is no prblem installing kubuntu-desktop on top of edubuntu, so make your chioce post instal and you are fine ;)
<Yagisan> mhz: not really, I used it as a lightweight wm, that I could them like Win or Mac to get people used to linux
<ogra> freelove, file bugs if you see problems in gnome to make it better ;)
<mhz> freelove: also, you can install 'server' mode instead of pressin default enter in installation. Then you could install any desktop you wish
<freelove> theres no burning app, totem is awful, no encrypting app, text written in popup notes clear when u exit it......
<ogra> burning is integrated by default in the file manager
<mhz> Yagisan: i am trying to find time to work on lightweight WM for edubuntu.
<ogra> encryption is there in all apps
<freelove> ogra: after i had this experience, i did the same...what ur saying....surprisingly those probs again showed up......
<mhz> Yagisan: so far , I am 'expereinced' in customizing Fluxbox and WindowMaker
<ogra> totem is ok, its just lacking the codecs that are illegal to be shipped by us... its a fine app if you install them post install
<freelove> ogra: but NOW when i installed ubuntu, then kde 3.5.......im not having such probs......so the prob seems to be with the old kde packages...
<ogra> that might be, i dont touch kde if nobody forces me
<freelove> ogra: but playback in totem looks so awful.......see the diff when u run the same video in kaffiene......
* ogra never saw kaffeine
<Yagisan> mhz: IIRC the two you mentioned are more lightweight then icewm
<freelove> it looks clearer, richer, smooth.......
<ogra> i cant bear the kde ui, it looks so cluttered
<Yagisan> freelove: kde apps work fine in gnome. I use k3b on gnome
<ogra> even if riddell did y good bunch of work to cut it down ...
<ogra> i simply dont need 40 buttons in one app that should have 5 ... 
<freelove> ogra: i like clear looks of gnome really......but the few points i mentioned make kde more productive....and featurefull.......
* Yagisan ponders why amd64 mencoder is 1/3 as fast as i386 mencoder
<ogra> i object that, but thats really personal preferencse we cant argue about :)
<freelove> ogra: u can right-click something, then set it as background, edit as root, etc.. these are not in gnome.....
<freelove> i agree
<freelove> personal pref:)
<ogra> and the success of ubuntu somehow showas that gnome is very powerful imho :)
<ogra> *shows
<freelove> a lot of ppl like gnome i know..my own friend does:)
<ogra> and a lot of people like kde :) 
<freelove> but guess what? if ubuntu were kde-based it would have been far more popular IMHO:)
* Yagisan doesn't really care, and long as English and  work perfectly.
<ogra> and i'd really like to see keubuntu happen to make users like you happy :)
<freelove> ogra: thx:)
* Yagisan would apt-get purge kubuntu-desktop on install, as it doesn't meet my basic requirement.
<mhz> freelove: ogra: Kde is a fine in-your-face features desktop fro people in such need. Gnome is less agressive int the sense of features in your face. There are people who love that (like my wife and mom).
<freelove> mhz: yes...its really a matter of personal pref:)
<mhz> but for users like me that want the features only when they need them (hardly ever), Wmaker is cool enough
<mhz> I dont need jumping icons or a full-of-effects menu, just to run the applications with the best perfoirmance possible
<mhz> :D
<freelove> but newbies are more comfortable with lotsa features...like me....plus i find kde more attractive imho:D
<mhz> indeed.
<mhz> when I want to show off in front of mac or xp users, I show KDE and GNOME alternatives.
<Yagisan> l33t users don't even use kde/gnome. They don't even use monitors. They have their keyboard lights blink out the display in morse code :-P
<mhz> hehehehe
<Yagisan> guys/girls - we are heading into kde vs gnome, vi vs emacs territory here
<Yagisan> we can change from one to another easily. Don't like one, pick another
<ogra> yes, lets drop the topic :)
<freelove> lol.....
<freelove> sure:)
<freelove> since kde is better theres no point arguing............lol:D
<Yagisan> anyone other then myself, familiar with mencoder ?
<ogra> Yagisan, talk to slomo :)
<ogra> he's the mplayer/mencoder packaging god ;)
<Yagisan> thanks ogra
<freelove> i believe more ppl are into developing ubuntu than kubuntu am i right?
<ogra> freelove, not really, but we have the backing of the ubuntu desktop team ...
<ogra> so my work is mainly adjusting stuff in the ubuntu dsktop
<freelove> ok so more ppl are into ubutnu desktop than kubuntu desktop:)
<mhz> indeed
<ogra> freelove, btw, small hint, sabdfl just joined #ubuntu-devel
* Yagisan kicks off his insane quality dvd to xvid mencoder script and notices it is going at 2fps
<freelove> thx ogra!
<mhz> Yagisan: that is still japaneese to me
<mhz> :)
<Yagisan> mhz: heard of mplayer ? mencoder is the encoding part
<mhz> aahhh
<mhz> now we are talking
<mhz> is mplayer free-as-in-freedm
<Yagisan> mhz: yes - but it's in multiverse because it hooks every codec known to man even windows only ones (i386 only)
<Yagisan> and most likely violates several bogus us patents
<mhz> oh
<Yagisan> mhz: why oh ?
<Petaris> Hello
<ogra> ni
<ogra> err hi
<Yagisan> G'day
<Petaris> Hey ogra
<Petaris> you too Yagisan
<Petaris> Hows the ltsp comming along?
<ogra> multiarch entered yesterday , ldm is waiting for two trivial variable name changes ... bootspeed is from 90sec down to 55 already (more to come) usplash love for thin clients is there ...
<Petaris> Any production users yet?
<ogra> yes, a bunch
<Petaris> cool
<ogra> and the next version will really rock ... :)
<Petaris> Will it be ready by summer?
* Yagisan looks at his production system. Yep it works
<ogra> Petaris, april
<ogra> we always release in april and august
<Petaris> I would really like to get away from Fedora (k12ltsp)
<Yagisan> Petaris: It's already summer :)
<ogra> err april and october 
<ogra> silly me
<ogra> Petaris, probably not for april but surely for oct we'll have a lot o new admin tools that are very edubuntu cenrtric ...
<Petaris> great
<ogra> i.e. http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<Petaris> Too bad I couldn't get it working and stable last summer
<ogra> the student-control-panel as teacher tool replacement should be there in april already (with limited functionallity)
<ogra> spacey, is helping with content filtering ...
<ogra> so it comes along quite well already ...
<Petaris> LTSP Manager looks nice
<ogra> todays daily CD sould be the first one in a testable state btw ...
<Petaris> will there be the ability to use other than just gnome?
<ogra> it always was there 
<Petaris> ahh
<Petaris> how are you doing sound to the clients?
<Petaris> esd?
<Petaris> nas?
<ogra> for the upcoming release it will be esd
<ogra> for dapper+1 (oct) we'll have a completely new approach
<Petaris> I'm running into problems with esd with somethings
<Petaris> but I think its bandwidth related
<ogra> (using an alsa file pipe through ssh tunnel with direct HW access)
<ogra> i have rather seen gui slowness than having choppy sound while testing 
<Petaris> right
<ogra> (with esd that is)
<ogra> but we'll have sound included by default from april on ...
<Petaris> are you giving the clients a fake /dev/dsp or something to look at?
<Petaris> or are you thinking of using esddsp wrappers?
<ogra> since we have to support the next release for at least 3 years i'm not allowed to make real intrusive changes :/
<ogra> i'll use the wrappers
<Petaris> you could run into issues ther
<Petaris> *there
<Petaris> I also get lots of static on esd when using the scroll on the mouse, but that too could be a bandwidth thing
<ogra> i talked to several people that have very huge setups that ude it this way ...
<ogra> s/ude/use
<Petaris> hrm
<ogra> huge == some 100 clients
<Petaris> nice
<ogra> the biggest was ~400
<Petaris> I only have 25
<ogra> 100 Mbit ? 
<Petaris> gbit server/switch with 100Mb clients
<ogra> hmm, shouldnt have network issues 
<freelove> i wish there was a boy in the edubuntu wallpaper......the girl one is good though.....
<Petaris> ogra, I think that some of the issues are fc bloat
<ogra> hmm, might be, or 2.4 probs ...
<ogra> or does k12 already use 2.6 ?
<Petaris> using 2.6.11
<ogra> even in ltsp ? 
<Petaris> yeah
<ogra> wow
<Petaris> well, I do anyway and it is supported
<Petaris> not sure what the clients get served
<ogra> afaik ltsp 4.1 has issues with 2.6, but i might be wrong
<Petaris> 4.4.1 now
<Petaris> I made a desktop clone script btw
<Petaris> so management wasn't bad
<Petaris> I just have one account that I set up the way I want then I run my script
<Petaris> works great and fast
* Yagisan hopes mencoder is finished by the time he wakes up. Goodnight all.
<Petaris> and I am using xfce
<Petaris> night Yagisan
<ogra> night Yagisan 
<ogra> Petaris, nice
<Petaris> you guys want the script?  it needs to be modifed to your setup but maybe you could build it into your LTSP manager
<ogra> if its not fiddling with systm config files etc ...
<ogra> i.e. /etc/skel is a nono for being touched by packages
<Petaris> nope, only user directories, but needs root privs to run
<ogra> sure, send it to the mailing list or to me personally ...
<Petaris> there you go
<Petaris> it uses rsync
<ogra> ah, i remember it :)
<Petaris> wipes out everything in there home dir and writes what was in the "master" setup
<Petaris> :)
<Petaris> its simple but it works
<ogra> yup, i'll look where it fits in
<Petaris> nicest thing is it works with any desktop  :)
<Petaris> I think I'm going to shoot it to Paul Nelson at k12ltsp too
<Petaris> he already has a system but it only works with gnome
<Petaris> and kde I think
<Petaris> I really can't wait to get back to a sane distro for ltsp
<Petaris> It took me a month to even get fc to be able to grab updates
<Lord_Athur> ogra, did you write a wiki about changing the artwork?
<ogra> nope
<Lord_Athur> :S
<ogra> the package will work completely different in the next release
<Lord_Athur> then could you tell me the forlder (the exact one)that contains the icons in the ubuntu CD-ROM
<ogra> pool contains the packages, look for packages with icon-theme in the name
<ogra> there are several
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> thanks again
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> if I open a terminal, it says "Ubuntu 5.10 "Breezy Badger"", can I change the name of the distro to "edubuntu"?
<RichiH> is there a live cd in the meantime?
<ogra> RichiH, the first tst version *could* be rady on the weekend
<ogra> *test **could
<ogra> err **ready
<ogra> the daily install appears to be testable already ... the livefs waits for the kernel and udev changes to be integrated in the live bootloader
<ogra> Lord_Athur, look in /etc/issue
* ogra  wanders off for 2h
<Lord_Athur> ok
<chris_h> greets, having successfully installed the terminal-server-sytem - gratz to edubuntu
<chris_h> my question: is TeachersPet available?
<chris_h> somebody here?
<chris_h> hello?
<chris_h> hi somebody herE?
<chris_h> Ive a question ...
<Lord_Athur> what file do Ihave to modify in the Ubuntu instalation CD for get (when the system is installed) form this CD) in the login "Edubuntu, liva la educacin!" intead of "Ubuntu 5.10 "Breewzy Badger""?
<chris_h> do you know if teachers Pet is available?
<Lord_Athur> what's pet?
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> ogra, What file did you modify in the instalation CD of Ubuntu for get the phrase "Edubuntu" instead of "ubuntu 5.10 "Breezy Badger"" in the login windows(in the terminal or tty)?
#edubuntu 2005-12-14
<Nytryx> question im installing edubuntu-desktop on my sons iibook is there anything i need to do other than "apt-get install edubuntu-desktop"?
<Nytryx> nm
<Nytryx> how do i enable auto login?
<Nytryx> anyone?
<paolob> Where do I submit a edubuntu bug?
<paolob> Where do I submit a edubuntu bug?
<Lord_Athur> how can I send a folder of 570mb from my pc (with edubuntu) to one with windows of a fast way?
<mhz_away> Nytryx: ping
<mhz_away> Nytryx: are still there? 
<Nytryx> what?
<Nytryx> yeah
* mhz_away just got back
<Nytryx> whats up 
<mhz> Nytryx: you had some questions?
<Nytryx> hey edubuntu has a kid programing thing to teach kids how to program man i wish that was around when i was a kid
<mhz> hehehe, me too!
<Nytryx> nope not any more if figured it all out thanks though
<mhz> okis.
<mhz> is the ibook running ok?
<mhz> Nytryx: could you enable 'autologin'?
<Nytryx> oh i still need to enable auto loging and work out a few more kinks
<Nytryx> like for example it freezes after you close the lcd and reopen it 
<Nytryx> and the autologin in thing and ummm flash for ppc i have something i need to complie but i dont have the engines for it all yet ill fix that later 
<Nytryx> but the auto login thing i would like help on still
<Nytryx> mhz?
* mhz sorry, I was reading emails :D
<Nytryx> oh sorry 
<Nytryx> how do i enable auto ligin?
<mhz> ok... what is more important to you?
* mhz guesses that it 
<Nytryx> the freezing part is second on the list everytime he closes the thing it freezes 
<mhz> ok, if i remember correctly, in GNOME you have at the menu bar, on the right most side
<Nytryx> but thus far edubuntu is awsome i wish i had had something like this when i was his age
<mhz> something like System Preferences?
* mhz does notuse GNOME
<Nytryx> left side systems
<Nytryx> you can cmd it to me im not a total newb
<mhz> oooh, cool!
<Nytryx> hehe
<mhz> then, it is called GDM setup
<mhz> gdm-setup
<Nytryx> so sudo gdm-setup?
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> gdmsetup
<mhz> hmmmm, probably
<mhz> sudo gdmsetup
<Nytryx> yeah you were about to get a command not found hehe
<mhz> hehehe
<Nytryx> hang on im going to switch users the sudo thing is being a pain
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> have you enabled root access?
<Nytryx> but i got the audio to work 
<mhz> cool
<Nytryx> i installed this system as kubuntu at first so yeah 
<mhz> actually, I use edubuntu LTSP and applications but from WindowMaker, so you can imagine this 'helping you' may have some mistakes
<mhz> :)
<Nytryx> its ok but it seems that i did not install a root or atleast i cant remeber the password...oh well to the su console i go 
<mhz> anyways, GDM (if you get to run it) has an option about users loggin in
<Nytryx> ok
<mhz> for sec. reasons auto login is disabled
* mhz can't run GDM from wmaker
<Nytryx> is it sudo -u root 
<Nytryx> ?
<Nytryx> and error "could not access GDM configuration file"
<mhz> hmm, I got same thing. Ok, gimme a second and I'll start GNOME
<mhz> re
<mhz> Nytryx: ok
* mhz is using GNOMe
<mhz> Nytryx: Menu bar -> System -> Login Manager
<Nytryx> ok hang on 
<mhz> if you are a sudo user, you can run it
<mhz> using your passwrod
<mhz> password
<Nytryx> ok menubar>system>no login manager 
<Nytryx> menubar>prefrences? administrator?
<mhz> At the GDM interface, right on the first tab, 'General', Second Section should be 'Automatic Login'
<mhz> oh, yes
<mhz> sorry
<Nytryx> if menubar>system>administrator> login screen setup? users and groups?
<mhz> General Tab
<Nytryx> under administrator?
<mhz> w8
<Nytryx> hehe
<mhz> system -> administration -> Login scree
<mhz> n
<mhz> does that work?
<Nytryx> nope its there but it does'nt bring up anything
<mhz> hmmmmm
<mhz> what's the name of the user you are using?
<mhz> is this user the one you used to install?
<Nytryx> nytryx
<Nytryx> umm i think so hummm
<Nytryx> but when i log out and try to login as root with the password i could have sworn i used it gives me login failed 
<mhz> because unless you have changed some settings, that user is the only one with SUDO privileges
<mhz> root can't login in GUI mode
<mhz> AND root is disabled
<mhz> unless you have enabled it
<mhz> Nytryx: ?
<Nytryx> ok 
<Nytryx> so then i install as Nytryx
<mhz> ok
<mhz> are you nytrix now?
<Nytryx> even still when i sudo with nytryx's passwd ig get login failure 
<mhz> hmmmm
<mhz> very wired
<Nytryx> uh yeha hehe
<mhz> ok, so you are saying that nobody can admin that box?
<Nytryx> no i can with nytryx 
<Nytryx> but 
<Nytryx> i cant get gdmsetup to run nor the login screen setup
<mhz> ok, lets try another route...
<Nytryx> heres what i get when i sus with nytryx's password 
<Nytryx> mind you its the same as the login which works fine 
<mhz> Menu -> Applications -> Debian -> Applications ->
<Nytryx> su: authentication failure sorry
<mhz> Menu -> Applications -> Debian -> Applications -> System -> GDM Setup
<Nytryx> umm where are you 
<mhz> Menu bar (the ubuntu logo)
<Nytryx> applicationg
<Nytryx> *applications
<Nytryx> ok 
<Nytryx> theres debian is'nt in there
* mhz has his GNOME in spanish :D
<mhz> ooops
<mhz> and Applications -> System ?
<Nytryx> system tools
<mhz> we should see GDM Setup somewhere
<mhz> ok. let me try another thing here, w8
<mhz> ok, it worked
<mhz> Nytryx: tell me, from a terminal,
<mhz> w8
<Nytryx> ok 
<mhz> terminal = terminal GUI window ? right?
<Nytryx> yeah 
<mhz> ok,
<mhz> we're talking same language then :)
<Nytryx> so were going terminal now?
<mhz> yup
<Nytryx> hang on im going to change to kde
<mhz> nononono
<mhz> Nytryx: nope
<Nytryx> why?
<mhz> because I want to see exactly what you see
<Nytryx> ok were working in the serminal no?
<Nytryx> *terminal
<mhz> yup, the gnome terminal
<mhz> my user is mhz, and my box is 2175
<Nytryx> ok
<mhz> so I see... mhz@b2175:~ $
<Nytryx> terminal open
<Nytryx> nytryx@ibook:~$
<mhz> and you should see nytryx@.....:~$
<Nytryx> yup
<mhz> ok
<mhz> hz@b2175:~ $ sudo gdmsetup
<mhz> it asks me for a password
<mhz> the mhz password
<mhz> not the root
<mhz> Nytryx: does it work for you?
<Nytryx> yeah but i get could not access GDM config file
<mhz> very weired because you should get to see GDM if nytryx is the user you chose when installing
<Nytryx> nope
<mhz> nope?
<Nytryx> not what i see
<mhz> ok
<mhz> is root enabled?
<mhz> w8
<Nytryx> i dont think so 
<mhz> can you do this?
<Nytryx> do what?
<mhz> just type
<mhz> groups
<mhz> and press enter :)
<mhz> is nytryx part of the admin group?
<Nytryx> it lists 
<Nytryx> nytryx adm cdrom floppy audio video plugdev lpadmin scanner admin
<mhz> hmmmm
<mhz> more weired
<mhz> :)
<mhz> AFAIK, all users in admin group are part of the SUDO
<mhz> ok,
<mhz> let's enable root, if yo like
<Nytryx> ok bring it on hehe
<mhz> in the terminal
<mhz> $ sudo passwd
<mhz> it will ask for nytryx password and then will ask you for root's
<Nytryx> enter new unix password
<mhz> yup
<mhz> BE WARE you are enabling root
<Nytryx> did'nt ask for root it just said enter new unix password
<mhz> yup, that too
<mhz> (sudo passwords linger for a couple of minutes, to avoid retyping all the time)
<mhz> ready?
<Nytryx> yup
<mhz> ok, now
<mhz> $ su -
<Nytryx> password
<mhz> does it log you as root?
<Nytryx> the one i just set
<mhz> yup
<Nytryx> yup
<mhz> cool!
<mhz> now, 
<mhz> $ rm -rf /
<mhz> NOOOOOOOOOOO
<mhz> just kidding you!
<mhz> Nytryx: dont!
<Nytryx> glad you said that 
<mhz> heeheh
<Nytryx> you almost had me reemove the root dir hehe
<mhz> heheheh
<mhz> I couldnt help the temptaion
<Nytryx> told you im not a complete noob hehe
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> I needed to check
<mhz> otherwise ubuntu people would kill me
<mhz> :D
<mhz> ok, so now
<mhz> $ gdmsetup
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> (gdmsetup:11460): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
<mhz> see?
<Nytryx> yup
<mhz> root can't run GUI
* mhz thinking
* mhz remembers another reason sudo is important in ubuntu
<mhz> Nytryx: $ ps -ax | grep -i gdm
<mhz> is gdm running?
<Nytryx> warning bad syntax
<mhz> ?
<mhz> Nytryx: $ ps ax | grep -i gdm
<Nytryx> ps -ax | grep -i gdm
<Nytryx> ok
<mhz> no 1st '-'
<Nytryx> 8231 pts/0 R+ 0:00 grep -i gdm
<mhz> no more coincidences?
<Nytryx> huh?
<mhz> I mean, that is the only line in the output?
<Nytryx> yup
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> ok
<mhz> now we know!
<mhz> are you using KDE login manager?
<Nytryx> yup
<mhz> LOL!!
<Nytryx> need to apt get something huh?
* mhz slaps Nytryx :D just kidding
* Nytryx kicks himself GDM Gnome desktop manager?
<mhz> yup!
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> LOl
<Nytryx> damn!
<Nytryx> ok so apt-get install GDM?
<mhz> nope
<mhz> no need
<mhz> I guess KDM has same options
<mhz> let me start KDE then
<mhz> you too?
<mhz> Nytryx: ?
<Nytryx> i can but i was going to go ahead and install GDM
<mhz> why?
<Nytryx> but i guess that can wait 
<mhz> so, we meet at KDE ?
<Nytryx> ok hehe 
<Nytryx> your going to scratch you head on this one
<Nytryx> according to synaptic GDM is installed
<mhz> re
<mhz> Nytryx: -5ng
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> hahahahha
<Nytryx> -5ng?
<mhz> yup, but if KDM is default login manger... it may not work
<mhz> sorry, I had enabled NumLock
<Nytryx> heh
<mhz> ok
<Nytryx> and the reason it was'nt working is because the desktop-base was'nt installed
<mhz> hmm, good point
<mhz> now, let's try to use KDM
<Nytryx> *light bulb* hehe
<Nytryx> bring it on hehe
<mhz> ok, Menu button (KDE logo)
<Nytryx> there
<mhz> Menu button -> SystemSettings
<mhz> then, Login Manager
<Nytryx> just flow to it i can keep up hehe
<mhz> okis
<Nytryx> i have login screen setup 
<mhz> once presented with KDM, go to the last right most tab
<Nytryx> it does'nt open anything
<mhz> hmm, me neither
<mhz> Nytryx: but do you get to the KDM window at least?
<Nytryx> nope
<mhz> let me get it, you do KDE logo -> SystemSettings nd when double click on Login Manager, nothing happens? no window?
<Nytryx> yup
<mhz> wow!
<Nytryx> what?
* mhz thinking
* Nytryx confuzzled
* Nytryx alone
<Nytryx> wb
<mhz> Nytryx: sorry
<mhz> I was testing something
<mhz> unsuccessfully as you noticed :)
<mhz> Nytryx: i have no clue why you don't see KDM window
<mhz> nor GDM one
<mhz> in of those, I saw the option to tick 'Enable Autologin'
<mhz> in both of them, I saw the option to tick 'Enable Autologin'
<Nytryx> i remeber it too its on my suse laptop 
<mhz> in GDM is in the tab named 'General' and in KDM is in the last right most tab
<Nytryx> but now that GDM-base is installed it shoud have the gnome loging screen no?
<mhz> I guess
<mhz> and I hope!
<mhz> :D
<mhz> w8
<Nytryx> do i need to restart to get that or sould it do it when i logout?
<mhz> Nytryx: when you login using KDM, do you see a 'System' button or 'config' button?
<Nytryx> yeah
<mhz> ok, could you try that and see if you get to set it?
<Nytryx> session menu and login buttons
<mhz> remeber that now you have 2 passwords
<mhz> maye it will ask you for your root
<mhz> i dont know.
<mhz> but it should get you where we want to go
<mhz> please try that
<Nytryx> ok i cant change the login its still kubuntu
<mhz> I'll wait here till you inform me
<mhz> :)
<mhz> of course, you'll have to logout
<mhz> yup
<Nytryx> i already have 
<mhz> ohh, you have to boxes!
<Nytryx> 6 to be exact
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> good to know
<mhz> Nytryx: ok, what options do you have in KDM then?
<mhz> Kubuntu Login manager is also KDM
<Nytryx> i did a complete reboot to see if it would help
<mhz> nha, dont think so
<mhz> but who know?
<mhz> with you.. all may be possible
<mhz> :D
<Nytryx> hehe
<Nytryx> i like edubuntu i wish i had had something like that when i was my sons age 
<Nytryx> thats awsome! 
<mhz> mee too
<Nytryx> and no kuduntu login still hehe
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> it's all a matter of constructivism and collaborating
<mhz> ? what you mean?
<Nytryx> and the kool horn thing at the staruo thats great
<Nytryx> i still got the kubuntu login manager 
<Nytryx> but i got a new error msg when running gdmsetup
<Nytryx> xlib: connection to "0.0" refused by peer
<Nytryx> xlib: no protocol specified
<Nytryx> and that cannot open display warning
<mhz> sighs
<Nytryx> but this time its gdmsetup:5000
<Nytryx> oh well he'll just have to get used to typing in his password
<mhz> hmmmm
<mhz> tell you what
<Nytryx> what?
<mhz> any chances you can come back and talk to ogra?
<mhz> ogra = Mr. Edubuntu
<Nytryx> is there a way to change the su account to the user account and the user account to the su acoount?
<mhz> ??
<Nytryx> i can im not going anywhere
<Nytryx> hehe
<Nytryx> is there a way to change the su account to the user account and the user account to the su acoount?
<mhz> chineese!
<mhz> Nytryx: also, you could try asking about KDM issues in #kubuntu
<Nytryx> k
<mhz> Nytryx: i need to sleep
<Nytryx> night
<mhz> or my wife will kick my chilean butt
<mhz> Nytryx: I hope to see you around and you can solve this issue
<mhz> bye
<jsgotangco> hi JaneW Ms. Weideman
<JaneW> hi jsgotangco  :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: how's things?
<juliux> morning
<jsgotangco> hey juliux 
<juliux> someone an idea why i cannt  log in at the clients? /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts is ok
<JaneW> jsgotangco: not too bad and you?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: tired though
<Unki> helllo all :-)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: pretty good i'm just uploading pics at the moment
<JaneW> jsgotangco: cool, I saw you Seoul ones, looked awesome
<jsgotangco> JaneW: Seoul is awesome, a few days after I spoke, the wiki has been full of KoreanTeam activity
<JaneW> my edubuntu cake pic has more than 1350 views!
<JaneW> jsgotangco: excellent, well done :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: yeah i'm pretty happy of what happened myself
<jsgotangco> :D
<irvin> i'm scheduling the edubuntu presentation next week 
<irvin> i have to it here at home first
<irvin> s/it/test
<JaneW> :)
<jsgotangco> excellent
<jsgotangco> JaneW: it was an experience speaking to en entirely different audience (i even got a translator)
<irvin> i hope i could get pictures
<JaneW> jsgotangco: do most ppl speak english there?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: barely
<JaneW> i.e. was there any communication problem?
<jsgotangco> JaneW: huge
* JaneW has a chinese tennant, and we battle to communicate! ;)
<irvin> JaneW, but you'll love their discipline
* jsgotangco enjoyed Seoul compared to his Tokyo trip a few years ago
<JaneW> I end up talking slow and loud, and somehow we get by, but understanding probably less than half of what each other is saying...
<JaneW> ;)
* JaneW loves everything about the east
<JaneW> SE Asia and beyond
* jsgotangco still waiting for the pics where he was in a suit
* JaneW saw House of Flying Daggers on Sunday - wow!
<jsgotangco> eh?
<jsgotangco> that's too asian
<jsgotangco> hehe
<JaneW> movie
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> hmmm try looking for April Snow
<JaneW> I love movies like that, they are beautiful
<jsgotangco> the costumes?
<JaneW> the costumes, scentery, cinematography, choreography.... 
<JaneW> they are fantastical, but still believable IMO
<JaneW> scenery I meant
<jsgotangco> well that's true Asian films has improved dramatically ever since we got to watch Godzilla
<irvin> hahaha
<irvin> but i really love watching the chinese classics
<irvin> anyone got to watch the epic Ran?
<irvin> the running time is more than 3 hours as i remember
<jsgotangco> irvin: i bought the dvd set of jewel in the palace
<jsgotangco> apparently, the series is so popular over there
<jsgotangco> (Dae Jang Geum)
<irvin> jsgotangco, does it have english subtitles?
<jsgotangco> irvin: heck yeah
<jsgotangco> region 3!
* jsgotangco gets starstruck
<spacey_ki> JaneW, did you see kung fu hussle? :D
<stewski> any edubuntu developers in?
<ogra> yup, whats up ?
<stewski> ah you probably already saw this
<stewski> http://www.bloggingbaby.com/entry/1234000340071196/
<stewski> just wanted to say amazing work mate
<ogra> thanks :)
<ThomasWaldmann> moin :)
<ThomasWaldmann> i've seen no comment on language. is edubuntu only for english speaking kids?
<ogra> we support all languages ubutu supports
<ThomasWaldmann> so a 12yr old kid is ok with it?
<ogra> the CD contains only english though, due to space limitation
<ogra> either take the DVD or make sure youre online during install to get the language packs 
<ThomasWaldmann> ok, will get the rest via apt
<ogra> yes, should be fine for 12 year lds ...
<ogra> are you using it at home ? thenmake sure to take the workstation insall, not the default install
<ogra> (see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes)
<ThomasWaldmann> my brothers daughter gets a pc for xmas. with win xph on it.
<ogra> ah, k...
<ThomasWaldmann> so that she doesnt get completely spoiled, I add some linux.
<ogra> our defalt target is a classroom install, that installs a ltp environment for one classroom, you most likely wont want that at home ;)
<ogra> *default
<ThomasWaldmann> ok X)
<ogra> **ltsp
* ogra hates his keyboard
<ogra> or it hates me :)
<ThomasWaldmann> maybe it is a MS keyboard :))
<ogra> heh, it has a windows key, yes ... but this laptop has never seen windows :)
<ogra> so it wont know the difference (i hope)
<ThomasWaldmann> ok, dl finished, burning it (amd64 :)
<ogra> great :)
<mherweg> hi everyone. I'd like to install java & flash for firefox on an amd64 system. do I need a 32bit firefox for that ?
<lucasvo> ogra: ping
<ogra> lucasvo, pong
<lucasvo> ogra: I can'd do loopback ssh on my ltsp client
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ ssh -p 2000 lucasvo@localhost
<lucasvo> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
<lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$
<lucasvo> ^^ on server
<ogra> i had expected that ...
<ogra> it needs to create a key on the client i guess ...
<ogra> which is a bit hard on readonly filesystems
<lucasvo> ogra: exactly
<lucasvo> ogra: can I mount it rw?
<lucasvo> somehow?
<lucasvo> I can't use chroot...
<ogra> find out which dir needs to be mounted rw and have a look at /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d/ltsp-client-setup
<ogra> you can mount it as tmpfs on top ...
<lucasvo> ogra: I think it would be /root/.ssh
<ogra> awww
<lucasvo> ogra: why?
<ogra> mounting /root rw isnt good
<ogra> (security ...)
<lucasvo> ogra: you only need to do it once
<lucasvo> ogra: there should be an option to exchange keys manually
<lucasvo> (using cp
<lucasvo> )
<lucasvo> so one could just use it for testing purpose
<lucasvo> how can I mount /root on top?
<ogra> see the init script i told you
<lucasvo> aha
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo>   echo "tmpfs           /tmp    tmpfs   defaults,nosuid,nodev 0 0" >> /etc/fstab
<lucasvo> ogra: you mean this ^^ ?
<ogra> nope, there is a list of rw mounted dirs
<lucasvo> ogra: hm
<lucasvo> I found it
<lucasvo> cool 
<lucasvo> thanks ogra
<ogra> np :)
<mherweg> hi all. any ideas how to use java & flashplugins in edubuntu-amd64 ?
<ogra> java is in universe, forget about flash or learn to set up chroots ...
<ogra> or ask macromedia to offer a amd64 flash plugin
<mherweg> i already have a i386-chroot
<ogra> then install firefox, java and the flashplugin there ...
<mherweg> i also tried to install the 32bit firefox tgz, but it misses some (32bit?)libs
<ogra> huh ? 
<ogra> tgz ??
<ogra> in a chroot ? 
<lucasvo> ogra: some little progress
<lucasvo> still the same error message comes
<ogra> debootstrp already installs apt-get for you ... just install with it
<mherweg> not int the chroot i installed it to /opt/firefox
<mherweg> how can a user start the firefox fron the chroot ? or schould i move it to the normal root-fs ?
<ogra> no, you need a separate chroot on the server for i386 binarys
<ogra> you cant just install 32bit software
<ogra> its pretty complicated if you never did it ...
<mherweg> yes i have that . i tried 2 different approaches
<ogra> thats why i said forget about flach in amd64
<ogra> flash
<mherweg> the school will not be happy without flash
<lucasvo> mherweg: why should a school use amd64?
<ogra> so debootstrap a chroot to install ff, java and flash in it ...
<lucasvo> mherweg: or is it a server?
<ogra> note that we dont officially support x86 clients on amd64 in breezy
<mherweg> "you cant just install 32bit software"  oh, i thought the processor can emulate that
<ogra> nope, not if you run a 64bit os
<mherweg> ok
<ogra> either you run the whole os in 32bit or use a chroot (which emulates a os inside the os)
<mherweg> so, what can i do now with my firefox inside /var/chroot ?
<mherweg> i need it for flash and olso for mplayer+w32codecs
<ogra> use dchroot to run it ... there is a howto somewhere ...
<mherweg> yes it is an amd64 terminal-server
<ogra> you want to install illegal software in a school ???
<ogra> w32codecs is highly illegal ...
<mherweg> even if they have windows licenses ?
<ogra> w32codecs has about 40 codecs under totally different licenses that make each other illegal ...
<ogra> i wouldnt use it in any office or school ...
<mherweg> ok. i'll tell that to the teacher. thanks for the info
<ogra> i.e. you are not allowed to ship the win codecs together with the real codecs...
<mherweg> thanks for the "dchroot" hint
<ogra> or the real codecs with the quicktime codecs
<ogra> also dont use wine ...
<lucasvo> ogra: still the same error comes
<ogra> you violate the windows licenses if you use win software on a terminal server that is not a windows terminal server
<mherweg> how can I violate a  windows license if i dont use windows ?
<lucasvo> mherweg: you use software published under a win license
<ogra> if you use windows software that has only single workplaces licenses in wine on a terminal server, you'd need a multiseat licence for it
<mherweg> ok , this part i understand
<ogra> which is significantly (100X ?) more expensive
<mherweg> schools get campus-licenses , i.e. Staroffice
<mherweg> (i know that i dont need wine for SO, was just an example)
<ogra> Staroffice isnt MS and campus licenses dont apply for terminal servers, not even for windows terminal servers
<ogra> software used on win terminal servers has always a limitation on a certain seatcount for example, they are special
<mherweg> ok. I have another question: how to go online with a  AVM Audiovisuelles MKTG & Computer System GmbH A1 ISDN [Fritz]  Card ?
<ogra> there is a ISdnHowto on the wiki ...
<ogra> you need the avm binary drivers, they are in linux-restricted-modules
<lucasvo> warning: remote port forwarding failed for listen port 2000
<lucasvo> :(
<lucasvo> ogra: is there any firewall on the client?
<lucasvo> ogra: I can't listen on port 2000
<ogra> i guess there is more rw stuff needed to open a port ;)
<lucasvo> ogra: oh no
<ogra> but i have no idea which
<lucasvo> hm
<lucasvo> what else??
<lucasvo> ? :D
<lucasvo> I mean /
<lucasvo> ogra: doesn't seem to be true
<lucasvo> ogra: port 65000 worked 
<ogra> sorry phone
<lucasvo> now, when I try to connect on server to client I get the following:
<lucasvo> debug1: client_input_channel_open:ctype forwarded-tcpip rchan2 win 131072 max 32768
<lucasvo> debug1: client_request_forwarded_tcpip: listen localhost port 65000, originator 127.0.0.1 port 57616
<lucasvo> debug1: channel 1: new [127.0.0.1] 
<lucasvo> debug1: confirm forwarded-tcpip
<lucasvo> debug1: channel 1: not connected: Connection refused
<lucasvo> debug1: channel 1: free 127.0.0.1, nchannels, 2
<lucasvo> ogra: any hint?
<ThomasWaldmann> ogra: btw, afaics, installation worked like a charm.
<ogra> :-D
<ogra> lucasvo, nope, sorry
<ogra> i dont know if you need any special options in ssh that might not be compiled in out of security reasons for example
<lucasvo> ogra: any other idea how to run halt on client?
<ogra> yes, from a button in ldm :)
<ogra> thats what i'll add to ldm anyway ...
<lucasvo> ldm is on client?
<ogra> yup
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> ogra: in that case...
<ogra> and runs as root
<\sh> ogra: greetings from william .... he follows your development :)
<ogra> oh, great :)
<ogra> is he still at ISH ?
<\sh> ogra: yes...he is still at ish :)
<\sh> ogra: he's not as stupid as I am...he has no balls :)
<ogra> heh
<mhz> \sh: are you sure that 'f...ing' many repated word in your blog is ok for newbies to ubuntu?
* mhz understands \sh feelings, indeed.
<\sh> mh: I just appologised
* mhz been there.. still am :)
<lucasvo>  \sh: you have a blog?
<\sh> lucasvo: sadly yes
<lucasvo> \sh: where?
<ogra> lucasvo, planet.ubuntu.com
<mhz> \sh: oh, sorry, wasn't following
<lucasvo> :{
<\sh> mhz: well...the planet should be a view of the devs and members of ubuntu..even in pain and anger
<mhz> hehehhe, good point
<ogra> but its a CoC iolation, so its good you apologised
* mhz gives a cheer up to \sh~
* mhz gives a cheer up to \sh!!
<mhz> ogra: heheheheh, CoC iolation!! LOl
<ogra> violation indeed ;)
<mhz> sure, but it does sounds good when I 'hear it' in spanish
<\sh> ogra: well yes...I have to live with it..if sabdfl wants to remove me...i don't mind :)
<ogra> he wont ...
<mhz> \sh: he'll not remove you... errar humanum est!
<lucasvo> oh \sh
<\sh> mhz: he could...or the CC could...and they are right if they would do that...
<mhz> \sh: we all have our days, you had yours and is it
<mhz> indeed, but he wont
<mhz> 'i am who I am because of what we all are'
<mhz> if we dont support you and understand you, we are not helping you
<\sh> wow2
<\sh> mvo just send an email to an old friend of him...a training company for IT stuff...this guy just send an email to me
<ogra> cool
<mhz> \sh: see? good things now
<\sh> well..yes :)
<mherweg> ogra: are you using willow already ? what do u suggest for my edubuntu 5.10: squidguard or willow ?
<ogra> squidguard if you have the skills to set it up
<ogra> willow is still in its testing phase 
<ogra> spacey has seen issues that might be willow related ...
<spacey> only had issues with transparant proxy
<spacey> else it works fine
<mherweg> ok. i did set up squidguard onece before .... too long ago to remember ;-) 
<spacey> seems like willow doesn't know which page to get
<spacey> but thats just a guess for now
<chris_h> Hi - Does Dr. Geo not work?
<mherweg> did anyone try  dansguardian?
<ogra> mherweg, you need to update the blacklists very regulary 
<ogra> its a lot of admin work ... thus the inspection of willow
<freelove> ogra:  at boot prompt of edubuntu, should i type workstation for a desktop install, so that it does not ask me any geeky LTSP questions during install?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<Nytryx> ogra just who i was waiting for you still around?
<ogra> sure
<Nytryx> mhz told me you were the edubuntu master
<ogra> heh
<Nytryx> we went round in circles over enabling auto liginin edububtu 
<ogra> how can i help you ? 
<Nytryx> login 
<Nytryx> we tried gdmsetup and kdmsetup and using the gui and got no where 
<ogra> that only works directly on the server or in a workstation setup, not in ldm
<Nytryx> i installed kubuntu on an ibook some time ago and recently thought "hey lets give it to my son and put edubuntu on it"
<Nytryx> ok so how would i enable autologin on it?
<ogra> i have no idea about kde, but in gdm it works
<Nytryx> gdm did'nt work 
<Nytryx> it does'nt bring up anything 
<ogra> sure i know a good bunch of users who user autologin
<ogra> i dont know if it works with gdm and non gnome desktops though
<ogra> how did it fail ? 
<Nytryx> gdmsetup retuens a warning that it cant be displaed
<Nytryx> displayed
<Nytryx> its gnome 
<ogra> if you call it from the system menu ? 
<Nytryx> i changed from kubuntu to edubuntu 
<Nytryx> still nothing 
<Nytryx> calling from system menu
<freelove> news! i'll be doing clean install of edubuntu tomorrow:)....and replace buggy kubuntu:(
<Nytryx> and from the console
<Nytryx> i might have todo that too hehe
<ogra> Nytryx, hmm, works fine here ...
<ogra> freelove, cool news :)
<freelove> ogra: i got a "noooooooooooooooooooooooo" in the kubuntu channel:D
<Nytryx> not for me hehe i dunno i might just have to do a clean install but i guess its good for hime to learn to type a password to use a computer
<ogra> lol
<ogra> Nytryx, normally gdmsetup works ... at least in ubuntu and edubuntu  ... i have no idea what KDE might modify on the system to make it not work ..
<Nytryx> its ok 
<Nytryx> ill figure it out later hes playing on it right now 
<Nytryx> man i wish i had edubuntu when i was his age 
<ogra> heh :)
<ogra> happy to hear that 
<Nytryx> orga you one of the desigingers?
<ogra> yup
<Nytryx> great work and the kids programing tool is awsome i spent some time last night playing with it its awsome im going to have to re do it all over agian for him tonight 
<Nytryx> i have the umm breezy install disk what do i do to clean install the edubuntu?
<Nytryx> i did an sudo apt-get install for it the way it is now
<ogra> thats fine ...
<ogra> install breezy and apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<Nytryx> ok thats what i figured i did it for the kubuntu and for edubuntu 
<ogra> afterwards sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r` will give you the edubuntu bootsplash if you want it
<Nytryx> im a KDE lover my self what version of KDE is kubuntu using?
<ogra> 3.4 for breezy by default
<Nytryx> they planning a  3.5 upgrade?
<ogra> there are backported packages afaik
<ogra> 3.5 is for dapper officially
<freelove> ive upgarded to 3.5....i dont see storage media:(
<freelove> ogra: u know how to change bootsplash plz temme!!!!!!!!
<crimsun> Nytryx: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-35.php
<ogra> freelove, i said it above
<mherweg> willow:
<mherweg>   File "/var/willow/willow.py", line 44, in ?
<mherweg>     import profile
<mherweg> ImportError: No module named profile
<ogra> install python-profile from multiverse
<freelove> ogra: exactly this command - sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`??
<ogra> freelove, yup, after you installed ne of the usplash artwork packages
<Nytryx> i run suse but i like edububtu and i did the dpkg-reconfigure and  it did'nt work i got an error
<ogra> whats the exact error ? 
<Nytryx> he wanted it back hehe 
<ogra> ??
<Nytryx> i log all the chats so ill try it agian later
<freelove> Nytryx: have u tried suse 10?
<Nytryx> it was something to the effecct of not installed
<Nytryx> running it on my laptop as we speak freelove
<ogra> Nytryx, you need the exact syntax
<mherweg>  python2.4-profiler
<ogra>  sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r`
<ogra> mherweg, yup
<mherweg> ok
<Nytryx> its awsome and w/KDE 3.5 its so smooth 
<ogra> note there is no willow package yet
<Nytryx> thanks orga
<ogra> youre welcome :)
<freelove> Nytryx: which did u upfrade to kde 3.5? suse?
<Nytryx> huh?
<freelove> Nytryx: u mean kde on top of edubuntu?
<Nytryx> no on suse
<Nytryx> i run suse my son is running edubuntu and my wife is still stuck in the win32 world hehe
<Nytryx> orga what the programing lang used in the turtle game in edububtu?
<ogra> logo
<Nytryx> ahhh 
<mherweg> port 8000 is used by nasd and willow ;-)
<Nytryx> my son likes making the turtle run back and forth hehe
<ogra> mherweg, you can easily change the port
<Nytryx> but hes programing yeah!
<Nytryx> freelove you a suse guy?
<mherweg> yes i saw it in the config
<freelove> Nytryx: i love everthing abt suse........except that its rpm-based...and there are leser packages:)
<Nytryx> wrong! 
<Nytryx> how many inst-sources are you using?
<Nytryx> just the disks?
<freelove> no no
<freelove> the ones which listed there on suse adding sources page........
<Nytryx> http://susewiki.apanela.com/goodlinks:yast_sources
<Nytryx> that one?
<freelove> Nytryx: i BET there are no packages like blast2, clustalx, etc.......i mean biology packages:)
<freelove> Nytryx: yes
<Nytryx> ok so you compile them 
<ogra> Nytryx, suse has the 17000 packages included ubuntu has ? i doubt that
<Nytryx> hey i like suse better just me 
<ogra> you just said its wrong that it has lesser packages ... i dont want to argue about your taste ;)
<Nytryx> and if i cant find it using yast source fordge is always there 
<ogra> its your choice what you like better :)
<freelove> Nytryx: suse IS better i guess:) but i wish it were debian-based with bio packages ready to install...i need them for my course....
<Nytryx> compile them 
<Nytryx> or use ubuntu does it have the packages?
<freelove> Nytryx: how much time does suse 10 take to boot on ur laptop? do u find it snappier than edubuntu?
<freelove> Nytryx: yes they are all there in the repos.......ubuntu has huge repos:)
<Nytryx> i've never booted edubuntu on this laptop but comapired to my sons ibook is faster
<Nytryx> hummm i might change back to ubuntu desktop on one of my other systems 
<freelove> Nytryx: any rough estimated time?
<Nytryx> how long it taks my laptop to boot
<Nytryx> ?
<freelove> yes
<Nytryx> mabey a minuet 
<Nytryx> minute
<freelove> hmm...i mintute to kdm or usable desktop?
<ogra> that won tdiffer much from ubuntu/edubuntu breezy ...
<Nytryx> usable desktop
<freelove> Nytryx: wow thats pretty fast!
<Nytryx> ive tweaked it so 
<ogra> we just changed the whole bootprocess and hardware detection system in ubuntu, in dapper it will be ~30sec
<Nytryx> like disabling eth0 and only using eth1 
<freelove> Nytryx: disabled few services i guess?
<Nytryx> yeah 
<freelove> WOOOOOOOOW! great news ogra:D
<Nytryx> orga is the new ubuntu out yet 
<Nytryx> i have breezy which by the way im still waiting on my disks
<freelove> its ogra not orga;)
<Nytryx> ogra my bad 
<ogra> Nytryx, we always release in april and october
<freelove> we should keep in touch with ogra for the hottest developments:)
<ogra> the next one will come in april ... but the next test cd is nar
<ogra> *near
<ogra> thats not my work :) i only reuse it in edubuntu ;)
<Nytryx> humm i might jump on that one for the desktop 
<ogra> Keybuk does our boot speedup stuff
<Nytryx> i like kde and 3.5 has won me over on this lappy so i would want to stay there 
<freelove> ok ive to go now.....goodnight all:)
<Nytryx> night 
<Nytryx> ogra why did ubuntu go gnome?
<freelove> i wanna stay for a few sec to get this answer;)
<ogra> because its cooler ;)
<Nytryx> why?
<freelove> kde is COOOOOOOOLER;)
<Nytryx> i think kde is kooler 
<freelove> COOLEST:D
<Nytryx> thats 2!
<mherweg> another willow question: how ca i set thje admin-password or how can I use pam ?
<Nytryx> passwrd 
<freelove> byeeeeeee:)
<Nytryx> night 
<ogra> Nytryx, freelove, because of guys like you two we have kubuntu ;)
<ogra> Nytryx, one of the reasons is that gnome has a precise predictable release schedule for example ...
<Nytryx> hehe im going to reinstall kubuntu on my desktop but....... i'm only doing it to see how big the repos are hehe 
<mhz> Nytryx: hi
<mhz> could you solve the KDM issue?
<Nytryx> i have to uncommet the universe in the......
<mhz> ohhhhh
<Nytryx> hi mhz and nope he woke up before i could get back to it hes playing with it rght now hehe
<ogra> Nytryx, exactly 17817 packages (in dapper, might be some 100 less in breezy)
<Nytryx> ok so i uncommet the universe in the /etc/sources.list right?
<ogra> nah, use synaptic, thats far easier :)
<ogra> ah, no synaptic im KDE ... 
<Nytryx> hehe 
<Nytryx> yeah there is 
<ogra> yes, uncomment them in via commandline then
<Nytryx> synaptic is in kubuntu 
<ogra> i thought you have this tool that looks like bugzilla in qt ... 
<ogra> adept was the name i think 
<ogra> ah, k
<Nytryx> now im going to install ubuntu on my desktop hehe 
<Nytryx> its going to be kubuntu where can i get the KDE upgrade?
<mhz> ogra: command line is the very best desktop independant environment :D
<ogra> mhz, nothing i'd give my mother ... or a teacher 
<mhz> sure
<Nytryx> hehe 
<ogra> and since i'd like to know what our users get, i try to use the gui tools as much as i can
<ogra> so i see the probs and bugs
<ogra> additionally its nicer for users if you can advise them to use the right tools
<Nytryx> man im scared i like my suse desktop hehe
<ogra> instead of the commandline
<Nytryx> but then you get the users that like the cmd line and the console 
<ogra> Nytryx, nobody wants to convert you, keep it :)
<Nytryx> no i want more pkgs hehe 
<ogra> all your chioce ;)
<mhz> ogra: indeed
* ogra has to do some housekeeping now ... bbl
<Nytryx> wait the pkgs on ubuntu are debian based no?
<ogra> yup
<mhz> ogra: yesterday night I spent about 45 minutes trying to solve something via GUI, unsuccessfully
<mhz> :(
<Nytryx> humm whats the address of the universe?
<mhz> Nytryx: just  uncomment
<Nytryx> no no i want to see if i can add that to my yast sources hehe
<mhz> hahahaha
<ogra> that is unlikely to work 
<Nytryx> why?
<mhz> yup
<ogra> because suzse uses rpm
<Nytryx> ive added deb sources to my suse before 
<Nytryx> or use alien to convem  th
<Nytryx> them or just stick to compiling hehe
<mhz> Nytryx: I have heard of both good and bad expreinces
<Nytryx> its fun though 
<mhz> and yes, please do proceed to add them, WE would like such feedback
<Nytryx> not something i woud try on my lappy 
<ogra> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ breezy universe
<mhz> Nytryx: all repos addresses are listed there in your sources.list
<Nytryx> thanks 
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Nytryx> hi
<Nytryx> ok well bbl 
<Nytryx> ok i ment id be right back hehe
<mhz> heheh
<enyc> moop
<enyc> meep
<Nytryx> boo!
<TOZII> I installed Edubuntu last night on a demo machine while drunk, and 
<TOZII> I need to know the default login and password.
<Nytryx> hehe this is going to be fun
<TOZII> lol
<Nytryx> you had to set one hehe 
<TOZII> Uh-oh.
<Nytryx> theres a way to reset it 
<ogra> boot in rescue mode
<Nytryx> yeah 
<ogra> hit esc if you see grub while booting
<TOZII> ok
<ogra> if you are on the commandline do: grep 1000 /etc/passwd
<ogra> thins will give you the name of the default user
<Nytryx> so glad ogra was there for that one hehe
<ogra> then just type: passwd <the user name you got from the former command>
<ogra> and thats it
<ogra> after rboot you can log in with the username and the newly set passwd
<TOZII> thnx
<ogra> np :)
<TOZII> I'm at GRUB. I should pick recovery mode?
<ogra> yes
<TOZII> It asks for the root password.
<ogra> er, that shouldnt happen
<ogra> except you broke it on istall already
<TOZII> Maybe I should reinstall.
<ogra> yup, sounds like
<TOZII> Friends don't let friends install Linux drunk.
<ogra> heh
<ogra> the install takes max 40min, wait with the drinking until its done ;)
<mhz_leaving> have you all nice weekedn in case we dont see
<ogra> oh and do you install a home system ? 
<ogra> ciao mhz_leaving 
<mhz_leaving> and if we dont see each other, then we should go to the 'eye doctor' :D
<ogra> TOZII, see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<mhz_leaving> ciao ogra, I'm going to a meeting abou tedubunt chielan tour :)
<ogra> cool :)
* ogra goes back to clean the house
* TOZII cracks knuckles
<TOZII> Ok, reinstalling.
<TOZII> DOH!!!!!
<TOZII> Now I remember!
<loo> hello
#edubuntu 2005-12-15
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
<Lord_Athur> ogra, 
<Lord_Athur> is the "Tux paint" program only in edubuntu?
<Nytryx_> no you can get it in synaptic
<Lord_Athur> but
<Lord_Athur> is it the default paint program of other distro?
<Nytryx_> other distros?
<Lord_Athur> ubuntu, kubuntu, 
<Lord_Athur> other based in ubuntu
<Nytryx_> see all the ubuntu is ubuntu
<Nytryx_> so yea you can get tuxpaint but no its not default
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> bye
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
<irvin> JaneW, you there?
<mpt> Have the bugs mentioned in http://www.bloggingbaby.com/entry/1234000340071196/ been filed in Bugzilla?
<agente87> hello
<irvin> hello
<ogra> mpt, most are known already, but not filed
<ogra> mpt, and some are simply no bugs, but based on the wron assumption edubuntu is a home user OS ...
<mpt> yah
<agente87> hello
<agente87> has anybody installed edubuntu in a classroom?
<Belutz> ogra, http://belutz.blogspot.com/2005/12/ubuntu-in-debian-conference-ii.html
<ogra> wow
<zakame> heya Belutz :D
<Belutz> hi zakame :)
<zakame> Belutz: rock on! :D
<Belutz> :D
<ogra> :)))
<Belutz> ogra, there is an audience that interested in developing edubuntu
<ogra> yay
<ogra> we need every helping hand :)
<Belutz> i told him to go to the wiki page and to join the mailing list
<Belutz> :)
<ogra> yeah, thats the right way :)
<zakame> Belutz: good you guys had a debconf too...
<Belutz> zakame, yes, but too bad i'm late to know about that event, so we only can do a little
<jsgotangco> Belutz: see? I knew you could do it and I wasn't needed anymore :D
<Belutz> jsgotangco, hmm that's because i feel bad to the commitee because they already give some time for us
<Belutz> and they gave 1 hour, not 30 minutes
<zakame> Belutz: still, continue the good work :)
<jsgotangco> i am happy it went well on your side and I'm sure it opened up oppotunities for you
<Belutz> the commitee gave away Hoary CD's in the seminar kit
<Belutz> so we open a question and answer session, the one who ask question will get Breezy CD, and a lot of people are asking :D
<jsgotangco> hehe
<Belutz> our locoteams (not yet official) are planning to make the repos available in DVD's so the ubuntu users doesn't have to have an internet connection to install or update packages
<zakame> great!
<Belutz> :)
<jsgotangco> the korea team is buzzing as well
<Belutz> jsgotangco, please keep me posted about the asian tours planning
<Belutz> we'll try to get the government involved in that event if it goes to Indonesia
<jsgotangco> Belutz: i need to list down the major conferences happening next year...
<Belutz> jsgotangco, ok
<zakame> jsgotangco: go go go :D
<Belutz> :D
<Nytryx_> morning!
<_freelove> hi ogra:)
<_freelove> :(
<Nytryx_> whats up room?
<Nytryx_> yay! i go my ubuntu disks in the mail
<maggard> hello, newb here
<maggard> can someone help me with install problems?
<maggard> anyone on?
<^eniac^> no
<^eniac^> :->
<maggard> bleah
<maggard> anyone know why the installer freeze on the 'starting up the partitioner' step?
<^eniac^> I know: your cd is broken!
<^eniac^> :-)
<WeBsPaCe> Hello. 
<WeBsPaCe> Anyone here who has got little time for me? 
<WeBsPaCe> I've got some questions on edubuntu's terminal server. 
<WeBsPaCe> *sniff* 
<^eniac^> Good night!
<francoisb> Hello, I'm trying to configure ltsp on a laptop using ubuntu
<francoisb> but It seems in ltspcfg that tftpd is not running and in finds nothing for XDMCP
<francoisb> Is there anyone here by now?
<Nytryx> nope noone hehe
<francoisb> Good
<Nytryx> hehe whats upp
<Nytryx> *up
<francoisb> Is it possible to use ltsp configurator of edubuntu on a existing ubuntu?
<Nytryx> dunno
<francoisb> I've got a laptop with ubuntu breezy, I've got a CD of edubuntu...
<spacey> just installt he ltsp packages
<francoisb> Yes, but things don't work.
<francoisb> tftpd is not running
<spacey> install it :)
<francoisb> It finc nothing for xdmcp
<spacey> edubuntu doesn't use xdmcp by default
<spacey> but ssh
<spacey> maybe install the package: edubuntu-server
<francoisb> is it on the same ubuntu reposistories?
<spacey> yup
<spacey> the repositories are the same for edubuntu and ubuntu
<francoisb> ok I saw it
<francoisb> and trying right now
<mhz> hi all
<Nytryx> hey mhz
<mhz> HiveDrone_: Nytryx , solved it?
<mhz> HiveDrone_: sorry
<mhz> Hi, Nytryx , solved it?
<Nytryx> the gdm thing?
* mhz is so used to using TAB that no autocompleted a diff name
<Nytryx> nah he has gotten used to login
<mhz> hehehehe
* mhz slap Nytryx's kid after 1 hour trying to enabling autologin :D
<mhz> just kidding
<Nytryx> i know right 
<mhz> my wife has done similar stuff to me, even after days trying to work other isuess out
<Nytryx> he likes it i hav'nt even been able to do a clean install of edubuntu yet hehe
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> but you could via ssh
<Nytryx> shhhh dont tell my wife but im goint to install suse 10 on her computer hehe
<mhz> while he's playing
<mhz> hehehehhe
<mhz> laptop, too?
<Nytryx> what? i can do a remote install over ssh WHILE he's playing ?
<Nytryx> explain please
<mhz> Nytryx: sure
<Nytryx> are we talking SSH tunneling?
<mhz> Nytryx: linux is famous because you can upgrade your whole system while still working on 'outdated' current version. No need to reboot or anything
<mhz> Nytryx: explain something to me first..
<Nytryx> ok so walk me trough it if you dont min......please
<Nytryx> ok
<Nytryx> what?
<mhz> is the sytem your kid is using, installed on the box or that is a thin client?
<Nytryx> is on the box 
<Nytryx> or on his ibook rather
<mhz> okis
<mhz> so, your kid is at this very moment, running linux on that box?
<mhz> does that box have an ip # you can ssh and ping to it?
<mhz> Nytryx: ?
<Nytryx> its on the network yeah 
<Nytryx> id have to check what the ip is 
<mhz> if all answers are 'yes', then simply... $ ssh the_aminuser@ip#
<mhz> once you are inside
<mhz> Nytryx: check that his /etc/apt/sources.list has the CD line commented and the other repos. uncommented
<Nytryx> wait "the_aminuser@ip#"
<Nytryx> hang on hang on 
<mhz> ok
* mhz w8's
<mhz> the_aminuser = the Admin user you set or specified when installing
<mhz> aminuser , admin user (my typo)
<mhz> ip# = the ip of his box
<mhz> in his box, the command 'ifconfig' will tell you his IP
<mhz> and if you are running a server to provide/share web access or local net access, the command 'arp' will tell you nice info
<Nytryx> i got the ip so hang on let me fire up console 
<mhz> okis
<Nytryx> ok ive loged into the ibook now what
<Nytryx> nane /etc/installation.sources
<Nytryx> or sources.list
<mhz> Nytryx: I am editing some wiki pages in the meantime, so if i do not answer immediatly, pleaseping my nick so I hear the bell
<Nytryx> ok so then what do i do to clean install 
<mhz> nano /etc/apt/sources/list
<mhz> nano /etc/apt/sources.list
<mhz> to comment/uncomment the respositories yoll'need
* mhz always comments out the CDROM repo.
<Nytryx> they are i had to do it when i installed i used ftp to get the kubuntu desktop 
<mhz> ok
<mhz> then, update the repos DB by running $ apt-get update
<mhz> Nytryx: we're talking about a Debian or Ubuntu based box?
<Nytryx> its ubuntu
<mhz> okis
<mhz> once updating is done
<Nytryx> it froze
<mhz> ????
<Nytryx> hang on i think he closed it 
<Nytryx> he turned it off!
<Nytryx> hehe
<mhz> hehehehe
<Nytryx> update done
<mhz> okis
<mhz> now, what d'u wanna do? upgrade?
<Nytryx> it was'nt an upgrade i wanted to fresh install hehe
<mhz> BTW, Nytryx I performed an entire upgrade of my box while we were talking last time :) and I did not need to reboot to see/use the new improvements (unless we are talking about kernel)
<mhz> what is a 'frsesh install' for you?
<mhz> fresh
<Nytryx> new
<mhz> why?
<Nytryx> work out the bugs but i guess im not going to need it 
<mhz> exactly
<Nytryx> can i ssh into wintows?
<mhz> nope
<mhz> but you can ssh from windows into a tux box
<Nytryx> humm whats the remote login other than RDP in windows
<mhz> no idea
* mhz has not used M$ in about 5-6 years
<mhz> and have no interest on it either
<mhz> :)
<Nytryx> my wife uses it hehe
<mhz> nothing is perfect
<mhz> so does my wife
<mhz> i slap her every other day
<mhz> :D
<mhz> she comes to me arguing against her box and I always look at her, trying to look as if I were understanding her complaints
<mhz> and I endup telling her... "well, you know..."
<Nytryx> shhh dont tell my wife but im going to pute suse on it hehe
<mhz> are you sure you wanna do that?
<Nytryx> why not?
<mhz> it's her decision
<mhz> what if she sends you to the sofa when she notices
<mhz> ?
<Nytryx> uh no she sleep on the sofa hehe
#edubuntu 2005-12-16
<mhz> heheh
<Nytryx> heres something funny 
<Nytryx> you peaked my intrest with the ssh thing when i try to ssh into my suse box it does'nt seem to respond why might that be?
<Nytryx> or even still it times out
<mhz> maybe you have no ssh running there?
<Nytryx> mabey 
<Nytryx> oh well ill fix that later on tonight 
<Nytryx> im on the couch hehe relaxing and dont feel like moving hehe
<mhz> no prob.
<Nytryx> but now i wonder what else i can do with ssh
<mhz> well, you can forward X (edubuntu LTSP does it)
<mhz> you can turn off the box
<Nytryx> foward x?
<mhz> you can actuall take control of the whole box
<mhz> yup
<mhz> run a GUI application on the remote machine
<Nytryx> ok so if i sshed in and ran startx would it run on my screen or his?
<mhz> something like that
<mhz> you have to use a different command line only
* mhz does not remember now
<mhz> I guess it's like ssh -X user@ip something
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Nytryx> hey athur
<Lord_Athur> :D hi Nytryx 
<HuskerAce> Anyone in channel?
<HuskerAce> Hello??????
<bit16> hi everyone
<irvin> hello bit16
<bit16> wht's new
<bit16> I'VE a question, I could do a google search to get the answer but, what's the main difference between ubuntu and edubuntu?
<skywater> Hello. How is edubuntu is different from the original Ubuntu?
<francoisb> Hello,
<Pygi> hello
<spacey> hi there
<Pygi> hi
<francoisb> I'm still trying to use an ubuntu as ltsp server
<francoisb> I've installed edubuntu-server
<francoisb> but my TX don't find tftp
<ogra> grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf 
<francoisb> It seem that tftpd is not running
<francoisb> I try
<francoisb> tftp           dgram   udp     wait    root  /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
<francoisb> Is this Ok?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> looks fine 
<francoisb> is the ltspcfg up to date?
<ogra> does  /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/ exost and contain the kernels ? 
<ogra> ARGH
<ogra> dont toucht the ltsp-utils package at all
<ogra> ltspadmin and ltspconfig are incompatible with our ltsp implementation
<francoisb> I don't install it?
<ogra> they break everything
<Yagisan> ogra: we need a conflicts on that package
<ogra> Yagisan, the breezy ltsp package had a dependency bug... they get installed by default ...
<ogra> matt missed that 
<francoisb> So I must unsinstall it and run ltspconfig
<ogra> francoisb, no
<Yagisan> ogra: thats why we have breezy-updates :)
<ogra> if you touched any of ltspconfig or ltspadmin its broken ...
<ogra> nobody found a way to fix it yet
<ogra> Yagisan, wont help if you already broke it
<francoisb> Could I run a config script from edubuntu to get it ok?
<ogra> francoisb, the only thing you have to run after installing edubuntu-server is sudo ltsp-build-lient 
<ogra> nope
<ogra> you cant fix it
<ogra> sorry, sudo ltsp-build-client 
<francoisb> I've made it, but I can make it again
<ogra> nope
<ogra> your complete setup (even of the server ) was modified by the ltspadmin/config tools ... 
<ogra> Yagisan, and a conflicts is the wrong attempt
<ogra> Yagisan, Conflicts/Replaces etc dont apply to packages, only to contents of packages ...
<francoisb> I can't unistall ltsp-utils, it'll get edubuntu-server away...
<ogra> as i said, there is a bug in the package, leave them where they are, just dont touch them, 
<ogra> if you already used one of the tools i know of no way to fix your server
<francoisb> And doing again ltsp-build-client ?
<ogra> if you already used one of the tools it will break even more
<ogra> what did you do exactly ? 
<ogra> step by step ? 
<francoisb> I used ltspadmin
<francoisb> ltsp-buid-client
<ogra> ugh
<francoisb> ltspcfg
<francoisb> I saw tftp not running
<francoisb> And wdmcp none
<ogra> we dont use X transport (no xdmcp in ubuntu)
<Yagisan> ogra: just an idea to prevent future victims. I thought Conflicts would be appropriate here, as that package breaks another.
<Yagisan> anyway I should be in bed
<francoisb> I undersatand but ltspcfg look at that
<ogra> yes, but it doesnt work 
<ogra> these tools should get removed completely, they will even be dropped by ltsp.org in the near future, they switch to our implementation
<ogra> at least hey should be demoted to universe if someone wants to use the insecure variant out of historical reasons or something ...
<ogra> francoisb, you could try to wipe the contents of /opt/ltsp/
<francoisb> And then?
<ogra> as well as the contents of /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/
<ogra> then try to rerun ltsp-build-client ... make sure tftpd-hpa is installed and edit the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to your needs...
<francoisb> and again ltsp-build client?
<ogra> no idea if that works, my normal answer for such broken systems is a complete reinstall ... 
<francoisb> I would preserve my /home...
<ogra> you only build the client once ...
<ogra> make sure the following packages are installed: tftpd-hpa, openssh-server and dhcp3-server
<ogra> (they should be dependencys of ltsp-server-stadalone anyway)
<francoisb> I try the cleaning and tell you.
<ogra> ok
<francoisb> bye
<ogra> ciao
<ogra> Yagisan, btw, i just see ltsp-client has a Replaces and a Conflicts on ltsp-utils in dapper
<Yagisan> ogra: really ?
<ogra> yup
<Yagisan> I never checked
<ogra> but its still in main :/
<Yagisan> IMHO it should be queued for removal anyway
<Yagisan> even I have had issues with the old utils
<ogra> yes, but if people want ltsp 4.1 they should be able to use it ...
<ogra> do universe is the right place ...
<ogra> s/do/so
<ogra> our ltsp id on the CD anyway 
<ogra> even in ubuntu
<Yagisan> isn't 4.1 obsolete now with the new method ?
<ogra> if you urgently want to use 4.1 you should be able to without having to use the tarball method
* #edubuntu  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
<Navire> Someone use LTSP client boot floppy? No PXE.
<Navire> I will using Ubuntu + LTSP (package  Official Web site LSTP, no package Ubuntu)  on Client Pentium 100 32MB, booting on floppy...
<Navire> I think is slow.
#edubuntu 2005-12-17
<Nytryx_> anyone awake?
<freelove> how do i change the usplash?
<pha> hello
<pha> Is there a live CD of edubuntu?
<crimsun> not that I'm aware for Breezy
<Yagisan> no, no live cd for breezy.
<pha> Are there plans to make one (live CD)?
<freelove> anyone here?
<freelove> im on edubuntu:)
<Yagisan> pha: it is planned to make one for the next version
<Yagisan> pha: but edubuntu uses a full cd when not a live version
<Yagisan> pha: so it may be difficult for the developers to make
<Yagisan> freelove: yes people are here
<freelove> :)
<freelove> anyone knows how i can change usplash?
<crimsun> install another -artwork-usplash package, then sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r)
<Yagisan> thanks crimsun
<freelove> crimsun: thanks:).........how will i tell it to have say ubuntu or kubuntu usplash??
<freelove> how will it know what uspash i want:?
<Yagisan> freelove: try running the command
<freelove> Yagisan: it tells me no splash image found....although ive installed kubuntu-usplash-artwork!
<crimsun> freelove: is this after a reboot as well?
<freelove> crimsun: ya...i installed that kubuntu usplash long back:)
<crimsun> freelove: cat /proc/cmdline
<freelove> crimsun: root=/dev/hdb2 ro quiet splash
<freelove> crimsun u there?
<adas> hi
<adas> where can i check what does edubuntu brings'
<adas> ?
<ogra> there is a list of apps on the wiki
<adas> i cant find it
<adas> :\
<adas> found it
<adas> thdx
<adas> thx
<adas> the wiki is great
<adas> :)
<ogra> :)
<ogra> mhz cares for it, he'll be happy to hear :)
<adas> i need to install edubuntu on this school
<adas> is it possible to get cds?
<ogra> see the http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes page before installing then :) 
<ogra> yes, some shops sell them, we dont have pressed ones through the ubuntu shipit system thouh
<ogra> *though
<adas> ok thanks
<adas> i gtg
<adas> break time
<adas> :p
<ogra> :)
<adas> bye
<littlepaul> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/viewtopic.php?t=19093 Feedback from Brazilia written in german
<mhz> hi all
<littlepaul> mhz, some words about the remastering of edubunt cd's for chile
<mhz> littlepaul: yes?
<littlepaul> i mean - do you have some words about this? :)
<mhz> littlepaul: i may have, could you be a little more specific, please? :)
<mhz> what would you like to know?
<littlepaul> I have read the logs of the last weeks and there you mentioned this. Did you worked on the remastering?
<mhz> Oh, nope, we have not remastered anything yet for Chile. We may do it for dapper, though. So far, we are only working on some artwork ideas for light/old hardware and testing current release.
<littlepaul> do you have enough hardware for schools in chile? this is just a general question
<mhz> enough hardware? if you mean "modern", yes and now. Schools usually have very old hardware (Pentium I or II, 32 or 48 MB ram))
<mhz> Private schools have P III or IV
<mhz> but about 70% of schools are in the old HW category
<littlepaul> this could also mean good chance for edubuntu
<mhz> yes and nop
<mhz> yes = need of networked env.
<mhz> no = default config is GNOME default. Many default apps still require lots of RAM
<mhz> etc
<littlepaul> k
<mhz> we are trying to get as much info as possible from Schools, so we can know what to customize first
<ogra> mhz, the desktop apps dont require ram on the clients at all
<mhz> littlepaul: we would like to design a survey/poll to ease the process but we are only 3 people here, and there's so much to do... :)
<mhz> ogra: I know, iknow. RAM is on the server, plus each client should have minimum 48 MB
<ogra> yup
<mhz> ogra: current server in a typical School is: IBM NetFinity, Pentium III, de 265 mg Ram y un disco duro de 80 Gb
<ogra> the latter depends on the graphics card ...
<mhz> yup
<littlepaul> mhz, regarding the survey - do you have allready some points?
<mhz> on paper, littlepaul :(
* mhz slaps himself
<littlepaul> :)
<littlepaul> mhz, are you interested to colaborate with someone from brazil?
<mhz> ogra: so, as you can see, we NEED lots of ram on the server so we can plug 20 clients to it :)
<mhz> littlepaul: OF COURSE!!!
<mhz> :D
<littlepaul> mhz, I'm sure he is also interested :)
<mhz> littlepaul: Edubuntu is a project for Schools
<littlepaul> mhz, I think he will contact you in the next days
<mhz> therefore, besides the Linux points, we work on social areas, so yes, we work with anyone who has an interest on imporving current sad IT levels
<mhz> littlepaul: thankz for the interest and in case Spanish is simpler for you, #edubuntu-es it available too
<littlepaul> mhz, I understand  a "some" spanish but german would be easier for me...
<mhz> ogra: BTW, I am not complaining at all... you know it is not your fault server needs 128 RAM p/client (on good performance basis) :D
<mhz> littlepaul: hhmm, Ich sprecht nich deutch :(
<ogra> indeed its my fault ;) 
<ogra> i could have opted to use twm instead of gnome ;)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> that's why we are here... to rescue those lost GNOME souls :)\
<mhz> ogra: my guess (still ignorant on how to run a good performance/needs testing) is that with WMaker, I can say 96 RAM is good per client 
<mhz> but 128 would rock
<ogra> i guess its less
<littlepaul> mhz one from the german ubuntu association had the idea to collect hardware from europe and to send it e.g. to brazil; this is an interesting thought
<mhz> littlepaul: indeed! Actually, I am trying to convince people in Chile to help us work on a project called RecicLab = is 2 areas -> a) Computer Lab made with recycled PC's + b) we invite a kid and his parent of a family (social risk ones) to attend a 10-day-sessions. At the end, they will know how to assmeble a PC and install Ubuntu (light version). Also, if they came to all the sessions, they get a Diploma and the PC to take it home.. it's 
<mhz> theirs now.
<mhz> littlepaul: so yes, if that persona can help us, cool!
<mhz> and if we can help him, cool
<mhz> :
<Lord_Athur> hi 
<mhz> Lord_Athur: hi there
<mhz> Lord_Athur: how was your trip?
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> #edubuntu-es
<littlepaul> mhz this sounds very interesting; so I'll inform the guy from brazil about your work and I will talk with the german association about your project. If you have furhter information please send them via email to me
<mhz> littlepaul: thx. if more info is needed   www.tecnocimiento.cl/TecnocimientoSummary
<littlepaul> ok
* mhz will go off for lunch
<ivan> Hi, i'm from Russia and probe this canal first
<ivan> Everebody are this?
<jsgotangco> hiya
<ogra> so how does the probing feel ? :)
<ivan> Thanks. There are the people! Great!
<ogra> :)
<jsgotangco> good morning ogra
<ogra> he jsgotangco 
<ogra> *hey
<ivan> I was the teacher and director of middle school in Russia. Now I intersting Edubuntu. 
<claude> hi people :)
<claude> does someone know if edubuntu specific strings can be translated through rosetta?
<ogra> claude, which ones ? 
<claude> by example boot messages
<ogra> thats not edubuntu specific
<claude> see http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/edubuntu/traduction
<claude> i think this should better occur in rosetta
<ogra> err
<ogra> thats not edubuntu
<ogra> oh, it is
<ogra> looks a bit weird on the grey background, sorry
<claude> which package contain them?
<ogra> thats in the cd build system, we completely changed for dapper ...
<ogra> but its not edubuntu specific ... thats ubuntu default
<claude> so is it included in a dapper package registered in launchpad, right? 
<ogra> i have really no idea, i'm a bit astonished, sinc the edubuntu CD hasnt saying edubuntu everywhere
<ogra> errr
<ogra> is that a livecd ? 
<ogra> we dont offer any livecd for edubuntu
<claude> don't know exactly
<ogra> sorry, but i dont speak french
<ogra> what do the screens say ? 
<claude> i have to talk with Manu, which is leading that for French users
<ogra> Ceci est un cederom "live" d'Edubuntu construit a partir d'Ubuntu-5.10-live-x86, par l'equipe Edubuntu-fr.
<ogra> thats not official at all
<ogra> the guy who built that thing broke it
<claude> yes, i think this is a project aiming to build a live-cd based on edubuntu in French
<ogra> thats silly
<ogra> we have a liveCD next weekend
<claude> why?
<ogra> a official one
<claude> :-P
<ogra> even in french
<ogra> it was long announced that we build one for dapper ...
<claude> ok, i will to talk to Manu about that...
<ogra> i'm very sad that they waste their manpower and i still do a one man show
<ogra> (the last liveCd didnt happen because i do everything on my own and had only 3 months)
<ogra> if someone has stepped up to help, we would already have had one for breezy ...
<claude> i understand
<claude> i just subscribed to the new French Edubuntu mailing list
<ogra> there is a french edubuntu mailing list ? 
<ogra> why the heck dont tey talk to us at all ????
<ogra> what a mess
<claude> this is a very fresh one
<claude> i think it's not too late to add some coordination
<ogra> and why dont they work with us like the chilenian or spanish community ? 
<claude> i told you, it's a very recent effort
<lucasvo> ogra: subscribe and write a mail :D
<lucasvo> claude: but couldn't ubuntu set up the list?
<lucasvo> claude: in that case they would have to move all the members to ubuntu
<claude> maybe, but the list is hosted by official French loco team
<claude> only 7 members for now
<lucasvo> ogra: is there any DE-(ed)ubuntu list?
<lucasvo> ah, at least it is a official loco team...
<ogra> claude, it cant be *that* recent if they already built a liveCD
<ogra> lucasvo, not yet
<ogra> but i wanted to introduce one with dapper
<lucasvo> ogra: ok, good
<lucasvo> is there a list of loco teams?
<ogra> somewhere on the wiki, yes
<claude> ogra: i will try to learn a bit more about this team and keep you updated about it
<ogra> claude, could you invite them to come to one of our meetings ? 
<ogra> my french isnt good enough i think
<lucasvo> ogra: what meetings do you have?
<ogra> claude, the meeting is every wednesday 13:00 french time 
<claude> ogra: when will be the next one ?
<claude> ok :)
<ogra> it would be nice if someone could sho up ...
<ogra> thanks :-D
<ogra> lucasvo, edubuntu development meeting 
<ogra> lucasvo, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
<lucasvo> ogra: development... hm, what are you talking about? is it only for coders? or as well for users?
<ogra> for everyone ...
<ogra> if you miss something in edubuntu, thats the plac to ask for it (aside of the mailing list indeed ;) )
<lucasvo> ogra: has the mailing list a lot of traffic? (so far I only reading announce :D)
<ogra> nope, one two mails a week, sometimes more if a intresting discussion goes on
<ogra> its very ow traffic
<ogra> *low
<lucasvo> ok
<lucasvo> ogra: I can't find the date, you have your meetings...
<ogra> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
<ogra> :)
<ogra> note that all times are UTC
<ogra> so its +1 for germany/france
<lucasvo> germany/france/switzerland ! :)
<ogra> oh, yes, sorry :)
<claude> yes, for me too :)
<lucasvo> ah, at least not in american afternoon... :)
<lucasvo> +the 
<ogra> nope its american morning (east coast)
<claude> lucasvo: where are you from ?
<ogra> we have some people in maine 
<lucasvo> claude: Zurich 
<lucasvo> claude: you?
<ogra> and some in australia ... so that the best match :)
<claude> lucasvo: i'm in La Chaux-de-Fonds
<lucasvo> australia isn't something like +10 ?
<lucasvo> claude: ah
<ogra> yup along this line ...
<lucasvo> claude: we should make edubuntu-ch
<lucasvo> claude: why/where are you using edubuntu?
<claude> lucasvo: i'm not using it for now
<claude> i'm only interested
<lucasvo> claude: win? debian? suse? ubuntu?
<claude> mostly win :-((
<lucasvo> claude: ah
<claude> not at home, of course
<lucasvo> claude: what are you using at home?
<claude> guess...
<lucasvo> claude: ubuntu?
<claude> Ubuntu !
<claude> :)
<ogra> :)
<lucasvo> is there any power management support in ubuntu?
<lucasvo> claude: apt-get install edubunut-server
<claude> lucasvo: i suspect edubuntu is mainly of interest in a network (with ltsp)
<lucasvo> claude: yes
<lucasvo> claude: and it rocks!
<claude> i hope to be able to introduce it in our network
<lucasvo> claude: where, at home?
<claude> no, at work, in a school
<ogra> claude, not at all, edubuntu has a workstation instal option for standalone installs ...
<ogra> and the liveCD wont include any server stuff as well 
<ogra> lucasvo, how do you mean ? power managemen has always been in ubuntu
<lucasvo> ogra: lucasvo@lama:~$ sudo apm
<lucasvo> No APM support in kernel
<ogra> sure
<lucasvo> ogra: how can I load apm?
<ogra> just suppress loading of acpi modules and load apm
<lucasvo> claude: what hw do you have at this schooL?
<ogra> bu you only want that on very ancient HW
<lucasvo> FATAL: Error inserting acpi_cpufreq (/lib/modules/2.6.12-10-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/acpi-cpufreq.ko): No such device
<lucasvo> how can I load apm/acpi?
<ogra> apm is dead ...
<lucasvo> ogra: 2.4?
<lucasvo> ogra: why?
<ogra> but if you have an old hardware which still needs it, you can use it
<lucasvo> ogra: so how can I suspend?
<ogra> because hardware vendors all switched to acpi since ~2000
<claude> lucasvo: we have mainly dell machines (gx240->gx280)
<lucasvo> FATAL: Error inserting acpi_cpufreq (/lib/modules/2.6.12-10-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/acpi-cpufreq.ko): No such device
<lucasvo> claude: mhz, ram, hd?
<ogra> if it doesnt work out of the box, please report a bug and talk to mjg59 in #ubuntu-devel
<francoisb> hello
<claude> lucasvo: pIV 1.7 - 3.0 Ghz / 20-80 Gb
<claude> lucasvo: ram 250-500
<lucasvo> claude: in that case workstation is much better
<claude> yes, but we have still some older hardware
<lucasvo> claude: ah, so sell the dell machines an buy a new powerfull server
<lucasvo> :D
<claude> lol
<ogra> yes, and buy some of these: http://disklessworkstations.com/ ;)
<ogra> they are cool
<claude> still pricey for terminals
<claude> think they should buy under 100$
<claude> i saw a project about that
<claude> just a simple box that can be placed behind the screen
<claude> sorry don't remember url
<lucasvo> claude: hm, that is interesting, maybe epia?
<claude> lucasvo: i found it again : http://www.ndiyo.org/systems
<lucasvo> claude: this rocks!!
<lucasvo> cool
<ogra> ah, yeah, these guys were at the edubuntu summit
<lucasvo> but I don't see any "buy now" button :( 
<ogra> "The nivo is currently in demonstrator form - a fully functioning unit, but not yet available on sale. "
<ogra> i read that page hortly before hoary was released, seems there is not much progrees in their marketing ..
<lucasvo> too  bad
* lucasvo has to get a new pc... /me wants acpi enabled
<ogra> but 100 english pound production costs will still result in more than 200 in enduser price
<lucasvo> ogra: yes
<lucasvo> ogra: but it isn't that much if you compare it with for e.g. epia
<ogra> http://www.disklessworkstations.com/cgi-bin/web/200031.html?id=Xta8hU4z thie is the same size ...
<ogra> its as big as a postcard
<lucasvo> ogra: but not that stylish :D
<ogra> its neat, i had it in my hands at ubz
<lucasvo> ogra: hm, ok
<ogra> jammcq had one with him
<lucasvo> when I will make an exchange year in the US will buy one there :D
<lucasvo> or let's say, several
<ogra> indeed the metal case of the ndiyo is cooler
<lucasvo> ogra: mod it!
<ogra> hehe, yes ....
<ogra> some colorful LEDs 
<lucasvo> lol
<ogra> and a WATERCOOLING !
<lucasvo> ogra: just put it into aquarium
<ogra> heh
<lucasvo> ogra: the pxe diskless workstations all work with edubuntu, the ones in the ltsp category
<ogra> yup
<lucasvo> btw, is xinerama supported in ltsp? :D
<ogra> i didnt test the small ne yet
<ogra> nope
<ogra> that might be a dapper+1 addon 
<lucasvo> ogra: why? what would one have to do to get it working/
<lucasvo> ?
<ogra> hacking the xorg autodetection a bit to generate a scond config
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> ogra: and install it on image?
<ogra> ?
<lucasvo> ogra: or couldn't one just set it in the ltsp conf?
<ogra> yes, but before the xorg audodetection must support it
<lucasvo> ogra: can you change status of bugs: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17232 < it says I should provide xlog and I did
<ogra> lucasvo, leave that to the bugowner ... daniels will change the status once he gets to the bug
<lucasvo> ogra: so daniels will even look at bugs with need info status?
<ogra> ping him in -devel if you want to speed him up but dont tell (him itold you ;)
<lucasvo> ogra: ok
<lucasvo> ogra: :D
<ogra> sure, he has set the status... he wants the info
<lucasvo> ogra: this is actually not fair...
<lucasvo> ogra: so when he has the info it shouldn't be need info
<lucasvo> I could mark it as upstream, or is this bad idea?
<ogra> yes
<lucasvo> bad?
<lucasvo> hm, daniels isn't here :(
<lucasvo> A[A
<lucasvo> [A[A[A
<Ju> Hi
<lucasvo> hi Ju 
<Ju> is edubuntu translated via Rosetta ? I can find only Edubuntu Cookbook
<lucasvo> Ju: what is rosetta?
<Ju> the webapp for ubuntu translations : https://launchpad.net/
<lucasvo> Ju: I thought rosetta is handwriting recognition
<ogra_> Ju, which apps in particular do you want to translate ? edubuntu and its apps are contained in ubuntu ...
<ogra_> ... so in rosetta as well
<Ju> ogra_:  the debian installer
<ogra_> thats the ubuntu installer apart from one udeb thats ltsp related
<ogra_> Ju, i think Kamion has the installer po files in a bazaar archive somewhere, ask him in #ubuntu-devel
<Ju> oh ok
<Ju> i'will thanks
<ogra_> :)
<Ju> claude just forwarded me your discussion about edubuntu-fr , I'm very sorry this project start like that...
<ogra_> i'm happy it exists, but it would have been nice to coordinate with us :)
<Ju> sure... sorry about that, ill try to contact manu and ask him to show up here ;-)
<ogra_> the last release we had no liveCD because i did all the work alone, a helping hand would have been nice ... 
<ogra_> now the liveCd for dapper is at the door, so testing and helping would be appreciate ;)
<ogra_> +d
<lucasvo> ogra_: work was worth :D
<ogra_> (claude pointed me to the -fr live project)
<ogra_> lucasvo, sure, but it could have been far better if we joined forces ;)
<ogra_> but now we have a start ;)
<Ju> yep
<ogra_> :)
#edubuntu 2005-12-18
<maggard> hello all
<maggard> i have an install problem with edubuntu, can anyone help me plz?
<maggard> i don't see anything in the install notes that help
<maggard> anyone here?
<hyrum> Hello, recently installed edubuntu.  My kids love it.   They have been engrossed with the animation app in gcompris.  But the image selector in the lower left corner doesnt seem to work as mentioned in the help page.  Am I just missing something or is this a bug?  Does anyone know?
<aleXL> Hey... fantastic... one little prob with dual-booting Win2k... any help out here?
<bimberi> hi aleXL.  Ask away :)
<aleXL> After shutting down Edubuntu, Win2k only boots properly second time... first attempt always ends up in hang on the Win2k splash screen (blue blobs get halfway then hang)... always works on second boot tho'
<aleXL> IBM Thinkpad A30 (P3-900 + 256Mb + 20Gb)
<aleXL> I've edited fstab by #ing the hda1 mount entry for the NTFS partition... still having same prob tho'... it's only after rebooting from Edubuntu...
<bimberi> aleXL: hm, sorry i don't really know, that is very strange - as if grub does something which is undone by the first w2k boot -  #ubuntu might be worth a try (640 users in there atm)
<aleXL> will do... yep, thought a bit odd...
<lucasvo> hello
<aleXL> hey
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:lucasvo] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel |
<lucasvo>           Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab 
<lucasvo>           it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | please use 
<lucasvo>           paste.ubuntulinux.nl for pastin
<lucasvo> ups 
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:lucasvo] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Just ASK and wait till somebody responds | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | ple
<aleXL> Know of any linux dyslexia progs out there? One idea is an aural spell checker that reads back what's been written hence highlighting mised out words etc.
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:lucasvo] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Just ASK and wait till somebody responds | Mailing list: http://lists.ubuntu.com edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<lucasvo> aleXL: festival is text to speech but I don't know any other programm
<aleXL> and missed out s's!
<aleXL> Will have a look... thanks...
<ogra_> aleXL, the accessibility team cares about that, we closely work together
<Yagisan> G'day All
<juliux> hi Yagisan 
<ogra_> (they have their weekly meeting right after ours every wednesday)
<Yagisan> G'day juliux, seen the Sydney riots on tv ?
<aleXL> Thinking 'bout mind-mapping software too...
<juliux> Yagisan, yes, i was shocked
<ogra_> aleXL, freemind didnt compile with gcj ...
<Yagisan> juliux: What are they saying overseas ? I know why the riots started, but they won't say it on tv here.
<ogra_> aleXL, i looked at it for breezy .... there is a gcj port going on afaik, if we can have it in the default instal, we'll ship it ..
<juliux> Yagisan, here in germany until yet not very much, but i don't read a daily newspaper
<juliux> Yagisan, i have read something that they have attac attendat, but i don't think that this is true
<juliux> Yagisan, i think that this was an cause but not the base
<Yagisan> juliux, basically, last week a *large* group of Lebanese men, attacked an beat up volunteer lifeguards because the lifeguards were white.
<Yagisan> juliux, it was the final catalyst for the riots
<juliux> Yagisan, large==?
<juliux> Yagisan, yes it was a case but not the base
<Yagisan> juliux as in about 6 or more men
<juliux> Yagisan, an how much white people was it in the last days? 5000 ?
<Yagisan> juliux, but proir to that, we have had gang rapes of white women and girls by Lebanese men
<Yagisan> claiming that they could do it, as the white people didn't follow the koran.
<aleXL> and apparently girls harassed on beaches by muslim men? So says news in uk...
<Yagisan> They are on tv saying that they hate all non Lebanese people
<Yagisan> yep, that too aleXL
<juliux> Yagisan, very strange
<Yagisan> so *finally* something snapped
<Yagisan> and the white guys started retailiating
<Yagisan> in a dumb-arse way
<aleXL> 'humanity to others' eh?
<Yagisan> and now, they are the "racists"
<juliux> Yagisan, i think that you have this all over the world
<Yagisan> I mean, pot-kettle-black
<Yagisan> On Sunday, the white people rioted, on Monday, the Lebanese rioted. And it's almost time for another one
<juliux> ogra_, this is very cool http://www.golem.de/showhigh2.php?file=/0511/41498.html 
<ogra_> juliux, yup, heard about it
<juliux> ogra_, but atm very expansive
<ogra_> i have no idea if the Au1550 s even linux supported
* Yagisan forgot why he logged in
<ogra_> Yagisan, seen the last three ltsp changelogs ? 
<ogra_> :)
<Yagisan> I know there was something I wanted to ask, oh well. I'll remember it later
<Yagisan> ogra_: no, not yet. I'll check it out in a moment. Need to lock the doors as some hoons are outside, and give the little girl a bath
<ogra_> oh, v 0.60 wasnt uploaded :( 
<Yagisan> back in a bit. Hopefully I'll remember by then.
<ogra_> that was the multiarch patch ... its not separately on the -changes list
<ogra_> but its in current dapper now :)
<ogra_> (with some small changes) 
<ogra_> i.e. you have to say --arch i386 or --arch powerpc .... mdz wanted the --arch keyword in front ...
<Yagisan> re
<Yagisan> ogra_, mdz is picky isn't he
<ogra_> yup, but that makes the quality of the distro ;)
<Yagisan> just in case anyone is wondering why I mentioned the riots, well I'm the only white guy, in an all lebanese area
<aleXL> be lucky...
<Yagisan> thanks aleXL, I'm actually more worried about my non-white wife and kids
<aleXL> Luck to them too... d'u know how I can use the spell check f7 to run festival? I'm really green at this...
<aleXL> within oo2 or txteditor?
<Yagisan> ogra_: nice to see multiarch in 0.60. He didn't like ls in the update-sshkeys ?
<ogra_> nope, he made it a find call 
<Yagisan> aleXL, sorry no. What is festival ?
<aleXL> text2speech...
<ogra_> aleXL, ping dholbach in #ubuntu-devel, he works in the a11y team
<ogra_> or hno79 or TheMuso
* ogra_ gets rid of the underscore ...
<ogra> ah, less ugly ...
<Yagisan> ogra: find, that's part of coreutils isn't it ?
<ogra> nope, thats in findutils
<Yagisan> ogra: K, it's required anyway, so no missing dependency.
<pc22> just reinstalled, sites with java wont work with my browsers.. pls help
<ogra> pc22, you need to install java ... edubuntu cant ship it preinstalled
<bimberi> pc22: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats (look for Java)
<pc22> i did
<pc22> but repositories wont work
<ogra> the one from the miultiverse repository ? 
<ogra> they do here 
<ogra> pc22, the one from multiverse are the only ones tested and proven to work, if you use another java i cant help ...
<ogra> install j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin from multiverse, it brings everything with it and configures everything for you
<pc22> can u quote me your exact re: so i have the idea whats on your side. cos i checked all in from my side even those that are disabled
<ogra> ??
<pc22> referring to this http://ph.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse
<pc22> ?
<pc22> ogra?
<ogra> looks fine
<pc22> yes
<ogra> so sudo apt-get install j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin should give you all you need, except you have installed another java, that would break it
<pc22> meaning?
<ogra> if you have sun java installed in /usr/local the one from the repos is ignored for example ...
<pc22> ok
<ogra> if you have it installed in the same place as the package installs in you mix up the contents of the package and suns java, that breaks as well
<ogra> so stick with the repositorys and you are fine packages w offer are normally tested and dont require additional setup ...
<pc22> thanks ogra downloading now
<ogra> great :)
<pc22> hope this will work
<ogra> it will
<pc22> what about w32 codecs? lol
<ogra> they are totally illegal to redistribute 
<ogra> so you have to find them yourself ... 
<ogra> but i think the RestrictedFormats wikipage has some hints
<pc22> its not illegal in our country lol
<ogra> its illegal in every counntry
<ogra> the different licenses of the included codecs violate each other ...
<ogra> there is no country law that could circumvent it
<pc22> lol
<Yagisan> ogra: IIRC if you own a Windows license, you cam use the w32codecs
<Yagisan> s/cam/can
<Yagisan> pc22, but unless you *really* need wmv9 format, don't bother with it
<ogra> Yagisan, what about the quicktime, real and other third party codecs included in the package ? of hich some have a sentence in the license that forbids redistribution alongside with other codecs ? 
<pc22> what about quicktime movies
<ogra> the prob are not the windows codecs in there ... its the mix of different codecs
<Yagisan> quicktime can usually be done with a mpeg4 decoder
<pc22> asf
<Yagisan> ogra: those codecs can't be used on windows then
<ogra> Yagisan, but stil soerensen and friends are in the package ;)
<Yagisan> pc22 asf == wmv9 == msmpeg4
<ogra> they can, but only with special distribution permission
<pc22> k
<Yagisan> pc22, msmpeg4 as usual, isn't fully compatable with mpeg4. unless you are into web porn, you won't miss it.
<ogra> and you shouldnt be into web porn with a edu distro anyway *g*
<Yagisan> ogra: isn't apple the only user of soerensen ?
<ogra> Yagisan, quicktime is, yes 
* Yagisan learnt a lot about codecs recently
<pc22> i dont go porn
* Yagisan had to back up his dvds
<ogra> oh fun ...
<pc22> on pc
<pc22> lol
<ogra> did you know the guy who developed decss2 is living in the US now ...
<Yagisan> My little girl was teething on my dvds :(
<ogra> so decss2 might die some day ...
<ogra> since he wont be able to develop it further
<Yagisan> ogra: unlikely. There is always someone determined to use the products they have purchased.
<pc22> hmmm
<ogra> yes, there might be maintainers ...
<ogra> but the genius is gone :/
<Yagisan> ogra: I always wonder why so-called genius's go to the USA. Why would you willingly go to a non-free country ?
<ogra> money
<ogra> he was bought by linspire
<Yagisan> with my interest in security, I'd get the governments interest very quickly, and not the good type.
<ogra> i still wonder how he manages not to go into jail.. the RIAA will be after him for sure
<Yagisan> I'd like money too, but not that much.
<pc22> whats with edubuntu? is it just ubuntu repackaged?
<ogra> its ubuntu with added value and built around ltsp
<Yagisan> pc22: It's a customised version of ubuntu, targeted at schools
<Yagisan> it is a low-cost, high quality alternative
<Yagisan> to M$, and costs less to run
<ogra> btw, if anyone likes to test the daily install CDs, they should be safe for a first test
<ogra> LiveCD is on its way, ETA end of the week
<Yagisan> ogra: every few hours we get asked "Is there a live cd yet ? Is there a live cd yet ? Is there a live cd yet ? Is there a live cd yet ?"
<ogra> yes, there is, its just not up until Kamion and Mithradir give their ok 
<ogra> which is due during the week ...
<pc22> java wont load? do i have to restart computer?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> define "java wont load"
<ogra> what do you try  ? 
<pc22> online.sector.sk
<Yagisan> which java ?
<pc22> games
<pc22> i want to play java games
<ogra> Yagisan, the one from multiverse
<pc22> do i have to reinstall edubuntu?
<Yagisan> brb
<ogra> there are no java games on this page
<ogra> pc22, install flashplayer-mozilla
<ogra> the games are all flash games
<pc22> flash is ok
<pc22> on java
<pc22> there are java games inside
<ogra> hmm, no idea then ... i only see flash
<ogra> and java works for me on amd64 and i386 here ...
<Yagisan> re
<Yagisan> pc22: please go here and see if it works http://www.java.com/en/download/help/testvm.xml
<Yagisan> you should see an ugly dancing java logo
<pc22> nothing
<ogra> do you see java listed if you type about:plugins in the location bar ? 
<Yagisan> pc22: did you restart firefox ?
<ogra> shouldnt be needed anymore ...
<pc22> hey its working now
<Yagisan> ogra: doesn't hurt
<pc22> it says you are using an older version
<ogra> Yagisan, yes,that might be true :)
<Yagisan> pc22: that's because the repo has 1.4
<Yagisan> pc22: don't worry about it
<pc22> do i need the new one/.
<Yagisan> pc22: most java is written for earlier versions. You only need 1.5 for azureus
<Yagisan> for the web, I happily use the one in multiverse
<Yagisan> with no issues
<pc22> sigh
<pc22> i wonder
<Yagisan> pc22: sun just released a new version for the hell of it
* Yagisan was forced to do java programming
<Yagisan> most of this stuff only needs java 1.3
<pc22> Yagisan, where do i get cool themes
<pc22> i want an enlightenment look
<Yagisan> pc22: most apps starting with gtk2-engines are themes already packaged
<Yagisan> but the most customising I do is remove the background wall paper, and increase the font sizes
<pc22> can i see your screenshot?
<gand__> How can I open port 21 to allow FTP service?
<Yagisan> argh, the batteries in my mouse have died!
<Yagisan> I'm keyboard only
<Yagisan> pc22: what screenshot ?
<pc22> your desktop
<gand__> As in Administrtin ->service FTP is enabled but port 21 is closed!!
<Yagisan> pc22: It is standard ubuntu human theme
<Yagisan> pc22: I just right-clicked on the desktop and changed wallpaper to none
<pc22> ahhh can i make transparent ?>
<ogra> gand__, which ftp server is installed ? 
<Yagisan> pc22: not unless you have a) an nvidia card >= 6x00
<Yagisan> b) have the composite mananger loaded
<gand__> default edubuntu I suppose
<Yagisan> c) have a grunty pc instead of a),
<ogra> gand__, there is no ftp server installed in edubuntu, you must have installed one manually
<Yagisan> and d) like the pc to crash a lot, as composite is unstable
<pc22> i have bividia
<pc22> nvi
* Yagisan is off to find some batteries
<gand__> I see that  in System->Administration->Services->FTP is checked!
<ogra> gand__, thats the tftp server for booting the thin clients
<gand__> OK, install FTP server via synaptic package manager?
<ogra> apparently a bug in the services admin tool, that only checks for the string ftp in the service name
<ogra> yup
<gand__> Ok I suppose It mean that a FTP server was running :)
<ogra> yes, its a bug, thatnks for pointing that out, i'll talk to the service admin guy to fix that
<gand__> do you have a FTP server to suggest me to install via Synaptic PK manager?
<ogra> there is a supported one ...
<ogra> supported packages have a ubuntu logo near them
<ogra> (for supported packages you have guaranteed security support, might be important for ftp :) )
<Yagisan> re
<gand__> Yes I see that I've a HPA's tftp server already Installed ! How start it :)
<ogra> thats not a ftp server
<ogra> and it runs by default
<ogra> tftp is for netbooting thin clients 
<ogra> you cant do much more with it
<gand__> opps I'm confusing tftp with ftp sorry
<ogra> i think there is vftp or vsftp ...
<ogra> thats the one you might want
<ogra> it should start automatically after you installed it
<gand__> yes VSFTPD The Very Secure FTP Daemon :)
<ogra> great, take that one :)
* gand__ install vsftpd 
* gand__ thanks to ogra
<ogra> :)
<gand__> Yes it work only with anonymous, Now I've to confiugure to manage account?
<ogra> there is surely a config file in /etc .... i'm not using ftp anymore over here ....
<gand__> yes /etc/vsftpd.conf
<gand__> anonymous_enable=NO
<gand__> local_enable=YES
<gand__> :)
<ogra> cool, thats easy
<gand__> well quite easy :) I need that root could do ftp
<gand__> I can with my account but not with root account
<gand__> to explain: I need to do FTP on var/www/forum
<gand__> but var/www is owned by root
<gand__> I've temporaly activated root pw
<gand__> I can log in via ftp with my admin account but not with root account?
<ogra> make a ftp group (if it doesnt exist yet) and give write permissions to that grou ? 
<ogra> then add your admin account to it
<gand__> Ok I try :)
<ogra> just a guess :)
<gand__> As I dont'k now wery well how to manage group and permission
<gand__> Now I try using GUI
<ogra> thre is a gui for user management
<ogra> heh
<ogra> :)
<gand__> well with "add group... " I create a new group with my user as group member
<gand__> now I've to add this group as owner of /var/www/forum, right?
<ogra> yes, change the group permissions of the foleder
<gand__> I was owned by root, I change to FTPgroup?
<ogra> as i said, i'm just guessing, the ftp server might prevent you from writing to it, i'm not sure
<ogra> yes
<ogra> leave the user as root, but change the group 
<gand__> ok, i was asking that
<ogra> and then give the group write permissions
<gand__> ok: owner:root group: ftpgroup 775
<ogra> yup
<ogra> if that doesnt work, i have no real idea ... but there will be docs on the net how to do it i guess
<gand__> are this permission applied to all nested folder/file?
<ogra> yes
<gand__> I try
<ogra> subfolders are normally included in the permissions
<gand__> no It say I've no write permission :(
<gand__> when I see inside folder properties still remain root/root/ 755
<gand__> can I do it via terminal?
<ogra> try inside the folder: sudo chown -R root.ftpgroup .
<gand__> chown: too few arguments
<ogra> sudo chown -R root.ftpgroup /var/www/forum
<gand__> yes now from 755 tp 775?
<gand__> is chmod?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> chmod -R 775 /var/www/forum
<stecam> mauricio , oi ! sou o Uwe de londrina - recebeu meu email ?
<mhz> stecam: yup
<stecam> hi , nice to meet you 
<mhz> stecam: thanks for the email and interest
<stecam> sorry my portuguese is not too good , maybe we can try in english 
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> stecam: actually, I speak no portuguese
<stecam> right - i see ! 
<stecam> the lets try in english 
<ogra> to raise the bar, you could try in german ;)
<ogra> of french
<ogra> s/of/or 
<stecam> i explained , what we are trying here - so is there any point where we coulkd lcollaborate ? what do you think ?
<mhz> stecam: absolutely
<mhz> stecam: did you read the page about tenoicmiento (in english)?
<mhz> tecnocimiento, sorry
<stecam> fine - yes , i started. you must know , that i am not a computerspecialist. i am still learning . 
<mhz> stecam: if needed, (i guess it is) I could add lots of more info to it, for you
<mhz> stecam: I am not one, either
<mhz> :)
<stecam> evrything is needed :)
<mhz> yup
<mhz> stecam: I have some questions that I'll email them to you
<stecam> the point is , time is precious and i want to get started . thats why i try to get infos from elsewhere
<stecam> yes , email is probably a better way to discuss this calmly 
<stecam> anyway - i have to leave now. 
<stecam> nice to meet you mhz- please send your questions by mail 
<mhz> okis, stecam nice meeting you too
<stecam> bye - have a nice day nhz- greets to chile 
<mhz> stecam: hehehhe, thx
<mhz> ogra: hi there. Is your umeet talk today or was it yesterday?
<ogra> its today 
<ogra> i still dont know *where*
<ogra> 18:00 UTC btw
<mhz> okis.
<mhz> ogra: it's a #linux channel
<ogra> ah, k 
<mhz> I can send you the info if you need it
<mhz> (server info)
<ogra> that'd be nice ... 
<mhz> okis
* mhz reading old mails
<ogra> so i can save the time for looking it up, its a very busya day for me ...
<ogra> and we have a TB meeting right after y talk
<ogra> *my
<mhz> ogra: All the activities will take place on the #linux channel at the UniNet IRC
<mhz> network. You connect using our main server rotation, irc.uninet.edu, or
<mhz> via webchat at:
<mhz> http://webchat.uninet.edu/channel/linux
<ogra> ah, thanks a lot
<mhz> I'm glad I can help. After all, you definately do much stuff
<gand__> thanks bye
<ogra> arent they on freenode as well ?
<mhz> it seems not, I am not sure :(
<mhz> ogra: TB meeting?
<ogra> tech board
<mhz> oooh
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> :)
<ogra> bah, scping isos over wireless is soo slow ...
<mhz> ogra: I have been working on a set of Gartoon Icons (64x64) for Wmaker, even the clip. I still ignore how they get to be 'default' once a person installs something like edubuntu-wmaker
<mhz> ogra: you are nuts! wifi is slow
<mhz> try wi-max
<ogra> yes...
<mhz> 70 mbps
<ogra> i only have a 5Mbit card here
<mhz> oh
<mhz> why not use RJ45?
<ogra> and in dapper CD writing is broken, so i have to move the isos to a breezy box
<mhz> hehehehe
<platos> hi
* mhz wouldnt wanna be ogra
<mhz> hi platos 
<platos> does anyone know how to configure sound on ltsp?
<platos> i've tried some things, but it doesnt quite work
<mhz> platos: sound is not ready in breezy
<mhz> platos: dapper may have that solved
<ogra> platos, its about to enter dapper ...
<platos> i know, but isnt there an hack around that?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> thats the spec how i implement it in dapper https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientAudioSupport
<ogra> you can use it for breezy ...
<platos> ok, i'll give that a try
<platos> thanks
<ogra> i also have a bazaar branch for the implementation: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/sound/
<ogra> but thats based on dapper already
<ogra> (but might help)
<platos> well i've tried upgrading to dapper, but somehow the clients wouldnt boot after that
<ogra> id you only upgrade the server or also the chroot
<ogra> it boots fine for me
<ogra> (i hae X issues on one client though)
<platos> i updated the server and then i runned ltsp-build-client
<ogra> ouch
<platos> and it looks like it couldnt find the pxe image
<platos> it was really weird
<ogra> never do that if you already have an existing chroot
<platos> i removed the old one first :)
<ogra> just chroot into it and run apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
<platos> and is sound implemented then?
<ogra> and afterwards run ltsp-update-kernels to move the new kernbel into the PXE root for booting
<ogra> not yet
<platos> but i can use your bazaar thing for that right?
<ogra> i sent it to mdz for review yesterday, but he's on holiday since today for a week ...
<platos> oh so it would be implemented in januari or something ilke that?
<ogra> yes, you can copy the appropriate pieces into place, but be vey careful
<platos> *like that?
<ogra> earlier
<ogra> i guess in two weeks it will be in ...
<ogra> you then have to set SOUND = 1 or SOUND = True in your lts.conf
<ogra> the rest will be automatic
<platos> oh well, i guess i'll try to do it myself first and if it goes wrong, i guess i'll always have my ghost
<ogra> heh
<platos> isnt it SOUND=Y ?
<mhz> he
<mhz> nope
<ogra> platos, it could also be SOUND=platos ;)
<mhz> eihter 0 or 1
<mhz> LOl
<ogra> the script only checks if SOUND contains something ;)
<mhz> oooh
<platos> lol
<platos> cool
<ogra> even 0 woul enable it
<mhz> ogra: and you did that?
<ogra> hmm, which might be a bug ...
<ogra> mhz, yup ...
<mhz> it is cool! it shows the 'haching' spirit, congrats!
<mhz> hacking
<ogra> the only bit thats missing is some change in the desktop audio autodetection...
<ogra> but thats waiting for gstreamer 0.10
<mhz> well, that could be dapper +1
<ogra> nope
<ogra> its dapper
<mhz> why?
<ogra> we switch to a new sound model on the desktop ...
<mhz> oh, you wanna do it all, for dapper?
<platos> which one? alsa?
<mhz> ok, now i see
<ogra> fully autodetection and alsa prefered over esd
<mhz> interesting
<ogra> so i have to write a ltspsink for gstreamer that gets preferred if LTSP_CLIENT is set
<ogra> else it would default to alsa and wouldnt work
<mhz> good point
<ogra> dapper+1 will drop esd, even on thin clients and we'll try something completely new, fully gstreamer based
<ogra> or with luck even more low level by a direct alsa transport
<platos> wow, well good luck with that. Isn't that a problem with gnome?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> gnome switches to gstreamer with this release
<ogra> all libesd calls should be gone ...
<platos> yay thats great
<ogra> yup
<platos> finally some luck with my project
<ogra> ad if we manage the alsa stuff for dapper+1 you'll have encrypted audio through ssh ...
<ogra> and will most likely even be able to control the volume ... whic is not possible with esd
<platos> that would be nice, as esd is a little unprotected i've read :P
<ogra> doesnt matter on readolny systems like our thin clients are ...
<ogra> its just that students an modify the output ip ....
<ogra> so i could play sounds on yourthin client from mne ;)
<platos> lol, i'm gonna disable the console for my students
<platos> btw i'm upgrading to dapper as we speak
<ogra> there is stillthe terminal :)
<platos> hm, well i live in holland and its for an primary school
<platos> and in holland most children aren't so into linux, so they dont even know what an console is
<platos> so thats my luck
<ogra> heh
* ogra waves over the border ....
<platos> oh belgium or germany?
<ogra> germany ...
<ogra> in the eifel to be precise
<platos> well i live about 2km near the border ^^
<ogra> about 80km away from belgium/nl
<platos> of germany that is
<platos> i live near enschede
<ogra> ah, nice thats near
<platos> but i'm still a linux starter though
<ogra> we all were once :)
<platos> I started this schoolyear with linux, and I simply love it
<ogra> great :)
<platos> yupz, i started with fedora, tried suse and fell in love with ubuntu ;)
<platos> but anyways, i have to compile the software in the bazaar link you gave me right?
<platos> how do i do that?
<platos> can i use ./configure && ./make and then copy the files
<platos> or do i have to use gcc seperately
<ogra> the<y are scripts
<ogra> just copy them in place
<ogra> nothing to compile
<platos> oh just bash scripts?
<platos> great
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/sound/client/ldm needs to go to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ for example ...
<platos> and thats for dapper right?
<ogra> yup
<platos> i'll definitely try that out and report my findings
<ogra> and http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/sound/debian/ltsp-client.ltsp-client-setup.init should be copied to become /opt/ltsp/i386/etcinit.d/ltsp-client-setup
<ogra> then just make sure to install esound-clents on the server and esound in the chroot 
<spacey> shit
<ogra> *esound-clients
<spacey> did i miss a meeting today?
<ogra> spacey, nope
<platos> thanks, i'll copy that down
<ogra> do you want one ? 
<spacey> no
<spacey> but normally its on tuesday right
<ogra> we can easily set one up if you got withrawal occurences ;)
<spacey> :D
<ogra> nope, on wednesday
<spacey> oh ok
<spacey> :)
<spacey> good:P
<ogra> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event ;)
<spacey> wouldn't want to miss out on the fun :P
<ogra> there is also an ical file for evolution ...
* ogra goes to write the new CDs for tests....
<mhz> spacey: you are not the only one who misses stuff
<mhz> :)
<mhz> or thinks he misses stuff
<mhz> I missed Motu-School;
<mhz> ogra_thin: are showin off your thin client? :D
<ogra_thin> dvd writing didnt work from the commandline
<mhz> boooh
<mhz> weired
<ogra_thin> apparently it works with nautilus with no probs ...
<ogra_thin> and my breezy box is my headless ltsp server :)
<ogra_thin> so i write it remote from a thin client
<mhz> that's another reason I prefer command line over GUI (to know why an error occured)
<mhz> wow
<mhz> I do that all the time :) for CDs
<mhz> ogra_thin: : I have been working on a set of Gartoon Icons (64x64) for Wmaker, even the clip. I still ignore how they get to be 'default' once a person installs something like edubuntu-wmaker
<ogra_thin> you should submit them to the gartoon author, so he can include them ....
<mhz> I'd like to know what else should i take care of regarding this idea. (so far, I am on wallpaper, style colors and icons)
<ogra_thin> as long as wmaker uses freedesktop stamdards (which every WM should nowadays) it should work fine
<mhz> yes, but besides the wallpaper, style colors and icons.. what else?
<platos> buttons?
<ogra_thin> i dont know, its years ago that i saw wmaker the last time
<lucasvo> mhz: menu?
<lucasvo> mhz: desktop icons?
<ogra_thin> isnt that style _
<mhz> lucasvo: ?
<ogra_thin> the menu i mean
<lucasvo> mhz: you are doing a design?
<lucasvo> mhz: style?
* mhz is getting lost
<mhz> lucasvo: I am working on a wmaker theme and iconing for edubuntu users
<ogra_thin> mhz, i would just grab another design you consider complete and exchange the bits and pieces
<mhz> so far, wallpaper + using reduced-size gartoon icons + stylus colors
<mhz> ogra_thin: yes, but icons are not set there, are set manually
<ogra_thin> thats buggy
<mhz> yes
<mhz> I even changed the clip
<ogra_thin> why dont you use xfce 
<mhz> for a dapper clip
<mhz> dapper wrong
<mhz> gartoon clip, right
<ogra_thin> wmaker will never end up in main, you will always have to tweak a lot
<ogra_thin> xfce will move to main in dapper as a lightweight alternative
<mhz> ogra_thin: my knowledge is xfce is not optimal for servers that do not have 128 RAM p/client.
<ogra_thin> xfce runs fine with about 64MB or less per client
<mhz> and wmaker works much faster then. My idea of a wmaker edubuntu desktop is that those users/schools can just install something like edubuntu-wmaker
<ogra_thin> 128 is a gnome/kde value
<mhz> and get the icons and the theme/style al ltogether
<ogra_thin> then rather call it edubuntu-wmaker-style
<ogra_thin> and build it based on other style packages that might exist
<mhz> ogra_thin: I agree xfce runs fine, but again, consider this: server with 512 MB and 20 clients
<ogra_thin> will run fine
<ogra_thin> xfce is very lightweigt
<ogra_thin> but still freedesktop compliant
<mhz> yup, and wmaker is even faster
<ogra_thin> and incompatible to everything ...
<mhz> oh, i missed that part.
<mhz> icompatible?
<ogra_thin> you will have a lot of work with manual setting up menu changes etc
<ogra_thin> wmaker apparently doesnt follow the freedesktop standard thats used everywhere
<mhz> ogra_thin: so, no way I prepare a wmaker set that does not require manual config?
<ogra_thin> so menu changes or adding icons will be a pain for a normal teacher
<ogra_thin> if you (the teacher) installs an app, how will it show up in th emenu
<mhz> simple, it is there
<mhz> or if no rebooting, then you have to run update-menus
<ogra_thin> so does it or does it not follow freedesktop and menu-xdg standards 
<mhz> no idea, i can find out
<ogra_thin> then you get a debian menu
<mhz> yup
<ogra_thin> update-menus builds debian menus regardless if you have a age or class dependent menu
<mhz> my menus are not intend to show icons. I am making apps use gartoon icons
<ogra_thin> it will just ignore all the edubuntu specifics
<mhz> oh
<mhz> crap
<ogra_thin> since these are waved wround freedesktop standards
<mhz> ooops, sorry... sheeps
<ogra_thin> heh
<mhz> hmmmm
<mhz> so, you say wmaker is not an option
<mhz> ogra__: ?
<ogra_thin> if you want it easy for the teacher i doubt that, but as i said, i didnt use it for years... might have all changed
* ogra_thin goes to do a test install now ... laters
<mhz> lucasvo: opinions?
<mhz> lucasvo: opinions?
<ogra> in case someone is intrested, i'll hold an umeet online talk about edubuntu on irc.uninet.edu in #linux in 5 mins
<lucasvo> ogra: already finished?
<lucasvo> is there any way how to update from breezy to dapper?
<gand> I've installed vsftpd and I can log as user, but I get autenticatin error when I log as root (I temporaly set the root pw). Any idea? Can a root log in via FTP?
<TFP> hi
<TFP> i just wanted to know if edubuntu is also available in german language
<ogra> TFP, natuerlich ;)
<TFP> also nicht nur die distro sondern auch die programme?
<ogra> jup
<ogra> lets keep this channel english, or open a #edubuntu-d channel ;)
<TFP> ok
<TFP> np
<ogra> * #edubuntu-de 
<TFP> then i think i will install it on my sister's pc
<ogra> the CD only contains the english language packs due to space issues, so you need a network connection during install with it.... or you take the DVD which contains all 90 languages we offer
<TFP> thats no prob, have a 3Mbit connection
<ogra> great 
<ogra> the apps theselves have their translations in the language packs we offer ... we plan to make separate language pack CDs in the future to make translation updates available ...
<ogra> but thats the future ... only in planning state yet
<TFP> that's enough for me
<ogra> :)
<TFP> i'm planning to give my sister my old pc
<TFP> and dont have time to secure her pc and patch every hole in the xp machine, so i will just stick with edubuntu
<TFP> have ubuntu on my machine too
<TFP> and everything just works fine
<TFP> so hope edubuntu will work too
<ogra> that should apply to edubuntu as well 
<TFP> ;)
<ogra> make sure to read http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes before installing
<ogra> i guess you dont need a classroom install ;)
<TFP> me too
<lucasvo> ogra: cool
<lucasvo> ogra: I am talking about your speech
<lucasvo> ogra: I am intersted in use for older students....
<ogra> thanks :)
<lucasvo> ogra: and how about ubuntu+ldap?
<lucasvo> or let's sau libpam-ldap?
<lucasvo> is it working out of the box?
<ogra> nope, not yet
<ogra> and not in focus for dapper ....
<ogra> but i know its planned for dapper+1
<lucasvo> ogra: #ubuntu-meeting?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> in 5 mins
<lucasvo> ogra: I would like to upgrade to dapper now... how can I do that?
<ogra> agenda is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<lucasvo> what would be GAU?
<ogra> you can just change the sources.list file 
<lucasvo> ogra: s/breezy/dapper/g ?
<ogra> change all occurences of breezy to dapper
<ogra> yup
<ogra> but beware its a development release, you migt see breakage noody knows about yet :)
<ogra> *nobody
<ogra> the hardware detection, initramfs and kernel changed completely, so GAU might be it doesnt boot anymore
<lucasvo> ok
<ogra> also dont use the dist-upgrade command of apt in a development release
<lucasvo> ok
<ogra> only use the upgrade command and cherrypick packages that are held back manually
<lucasvo> E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room
<lucasvo> E: Error occurred while processing libkonq4 (NewVersion1)
<lucasvo> E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/dpkg/status
<lucasvo> E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.
<lucasvo> ogra: when I update: 
<lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/462706 < sources.list
<lucasvo> 20:59 < lucasvo> E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room
<ogra> lucasvo, after the meeting please
<lucasvo> ogra: ok
<janimo> ogra, is there a need for a lighter edubuntu?
<janimo> if so I'll need to at least think of how it affects xubuntu and maybe help out
<ogra> janimo, there is a lot of user demand ...
<janimo> for the server or the thin clients?
<ogra> thats the same 
<ogra> i can explain you ltsp a bit after the meeting ...
<janimo> ah I thought the server is a beefy machine running gnome
<janimo> and the clients smallish hw, hence the lightweight ldm (or so I thought)
<janimo> no hurry
<ogra> ldm is a security decision ...
<lucasvo> janimo: I'll give it a try....
<janimo> lucasvo, ? :)
<lucasvo> you have a server(running X, usually the full edubuntu installation)
<janimo> ah ltsp/edubuntu setup explanation, ok
<lucasvo> a client is nothing else than a small linux booting into ldm.
<lucasvo> ldm then makes sure you authenticate yourself and sets up a connection to an Xclient running on the server
<lucasvo> using the Xserver on the client(where ldm was running)
<janimo> and you install two falvors of edubuntu on server and client?
<lucasvo> for e.g. it starts up a gnome session
<lucasvo> server = ubuntu + edubuntu=server + ... 
<lucasvo> client ~= ubuntu-server+ltsp thingies
<janimo> aha, so gnome is installed only on server?
<janimo> in a default setup I mean
<lucasvo> yes
<lucasvo> there isn't any Xclient on the client
<lucasvo> only Xserver
<lucasvo> which uses ssh to connect to Xclient running on the server
<janimo> which side would benefit more from a lightweigth desktop?
<lucasvo> server
<lucasvo> the (lightweigth) desktop runs on the Server(xclient)
<janimo> so it handles more clients with same amount of RAM?
<lucasvo> yes
<janimo> and the clients(Xserver) are affected also I assume, but not as much?
<janimo> I guess some apps keep data in the xserver
<ogra> ok, back
<lucasvo> not as much
* janimo recalls some recent firefox bloatage and pixmap usage in the Xserver
<ogra> thats marginal ...
<lucasvo> ogra: is it normal thath 400packages are held back?
<ogra> the prob currently is that you need about 128MB per client on your server 
<ogra> lucasvo, yup, thats normal if you dont use dist upgrade, especially if you use any KDE stuff
<lucasvo> because of bloatware gnome
<ogra> for KDE its even more
<lucasvo> hm, another reason to kick out my kde
<janimo> wow, that is a lot
<janimo> does it have to do with ltsp specifics or just plain desktop app memory use?
<lucasvo> (/me doesn't agree with linus about kde & gnome)
<ogra> so for a 20 client setup you need some GB of ram, which is fine in most cases in the US or germany or other rich countries
<janimo> holy pig
<janimo> I thought a 512M would be just fine
<lucasvo> janimo: ever tried to run gnome on 32MB of ram?
<ogra> but we have many requests for smaller setups from southamerica or southaftica where you simply dont have the funds in a school for such a big server
<janimo> I thought the server can reuse some same RAM 
<ogra> so having xubuntu installable as an alternative desktop would be great
<janimo> at least for shared libs it should right, independent of clients?
<ogra> yes, some is shared 
<janimo> so this is what all LTSP installs require?
<ogra> you wouldnt want to run gnome or KDE below 256MB nowadays on a standalone system
<ogra> so there is already a lot sharing going on
<lucasvo> janimo for e.g. revamp-it.ch (a charity organisation in Zurich) I work with is using old pc's in affrica with ltsp
<janimo> yes, somehow I always thought of the L in LTSP as lightweight, and because of thin client I assumed thins server too :)
<ogra> the client isnt counting here
<janimo> well that's true for romania (where I live too)
<ogra> its only the server and the ram usage for the desktops there that matters
<janimo> cool so a xubuntu would maybe even double the number of clients per same amount of RAM
<ogra> yup
<janimo> even though the major hugs are X and firefox which we use too :)
<zdziczek> When I start a session on an Edubuntu client, does the client or the server handle the CPU, Memory load?
<ogra> its usual that people using ltsp use icewm or something similar
<ogra> zdziczek, the server
<zdziczek> ogra, so if 20 people all had OpenOffice working from client machines, the server would choke on memory?
<ogra> janimo, but it think xcfe can cope with it and is better to integrate
<janimo> I actually think of having icewm included too, maybe we can colaborate with ubuntulite as they have lightweight apps but are not working closely enough to be maintainable
<ogra> zdziczek, generally we say you need 128MB per client for the server plus 256MB for the server itself, then it should work smoothly
<janimo> it could fit on the CD as it is small if some people show interest and do the work. ButI have only today asked for renewing talks with Ulite
<janimo> indeed xfce will not be heavy while also not looking like 1993
<zdziczek> ogra, that's a lot of memory!
<ogra> janimo, i tried to work with them when i had a SoC student a while back, it somehow didnt work
<janimo> ah I remember about seeing that spec
<janimo> this time we'll make it :)
<ogra> zdziczek, not really, if you compare with a standalone system
<zdziczek> ogra, there is no way to utilize the CPU/Memory of the thin clients where possible?
<janimo> just let me know if anything is needed in xubuntu besides base desktop being usable and installable
<janimo> like special tricks you do to install/gnome etc
<ogra> zdziczek, not yet ... something in this direction will be done in dapper+1 (the october release)
<lucasvo> zdziczek: debian + openmosix + kernel 2.4+ a lot of work is what you need
<zdziczek> good progress
<zdziczek> also, do you know how to set the default application for file types for all clients at once?
<lucasvo> finally usplash for the client, juhu!
<zdziczek> like say, PDFs
<ogra> zdziczek, but as i just said to janimo, if you run a standalone gnome or KDE desktop you wouldnt want to use less than 256MB on the machine, so 128MB per lient with one of tese desktops is already a good win
<janimo> in those 128M per client X is not included at all right?just apps
<ogra> zdziczek, you can do that via gconf settings, there is a administrator handbook for gnome on gnome.org somewhere, not sure how much out of date it is
<zdziczek> ogra, yes i didnt mean it that way -- i just meant if you have a large lab -- you'd need to have many servers or a farm
<ogra> janimo, X doesnt run on the server 
<ogra> (doesnt need to)
<ogra> zdziczek, yup, thats the drawback
<janimo> so a 128M/client is actually a bit more that 128M on a standalone desktop as X is not counted
<lucasvo> janimo: 128MB per client on the server only
<ogra> the clients need about 64MB to boot and run the X server in fullcolor mode ...
<lucasvo> on the client-pc you just need enough for X to run
<janimo> as if client had 128 + the amount already holding base system + Xserver
<ogra> switching down to 16bit should get you to 48MB
<janimo> is the X server or the base system eating the more ram?
<ogra> the client uses its ram only for booting and starting up X
<lucasvo> janimo: X server
<janimo> maybe Tiny-X could be evaled?
<janimo> just a thought
<ogra> nope
<ogra> we rely 100% on our xorg packages and their autodetection capabilities
<lucasvo> even if they aren't working :D
<janimo> I mean if tiny-x got packaged.it is in 7.0 AFAIK
<ogra> the big advantage with the ubuntu ltsp is that you dont need to configure anything
<janimo> that's true.
<lucasvo> it takes about 10 min 
<janimo> but in such large setups if there's a knowledgable admin a lot of resources could be saved with some advanced tweaks.anyway irrelevant at this point
<janimo> cool, if only I could find a room with many boxes to try it out :)
<janimo> schools here seems to shy away from free stuff.
<janimo> got brainwashed from upstream
<lucasvo> janimo: the problem is that for e.g. in kongo there isn't enough money to pay IT specialist... so tweaking is no option
<janimo> true
<janimo> volunteers maybe :)
* ogra_ kicks hisprovider
<lucasvo> janimo: do you know someboyd who wants to pay a flight to Affrica?
<janimo> I mean kongo-ubuntu LoCo team
<lucasvo> there isn't any yet
<lucasvo> I think
<janimo> are you there btw?
<ogra_> start one :)
<janimo> I think the nice thing with ubuntu is that it encourages decentralization
<lucasvo> janimo: no I am in one of the richest countries of the world :D
<janimo> as opposed to waiting for the certified specialist from the 'first world'
<lucasvo> janimo: we throw pc's away, people are using in affrica
<janimo> chances are that those who install a lab of 20 PCs in kongo will know enough to at least ask for help online :)
<lucasvo> janimo: I am a student in CH, so couldn't even go to kongo...
<janimo> great thing
<lucasvo> janimo: how should one get online?
<janimo> well, why don;t you send down some infrastrcuture too ;) ?
<janimo> ok I see your point
<ogra> they often dont even hav power down there 
<janimo> but I though foundations generally take some knowhow with them don;t just pack PCs along with fridges and TVs and send them away
<ogra> let alone phone lines
<lucasvo> janimo: as I said I am working with www.revamp-it.ch and they are doing exactly this
<janimo> looking at it
<lucasvo> ogra: but they will soon have wimax :P
<lucasvo> powered by intel
<ogra> there is a very cool project of a guy driving around with a moped and collecting emails from people without connection... 
<lucasvo> cool
<janimo> with a laptop?
<ogra> he then sends the ails from home to the et, collects the answers and transports hem by moped to the people again
<ogra> yup
<janimo> cool,
<ogra> you can hand him your usbstick and he carries your mail to the web
<janimo> hello Sir. bzr pull, kthxby
<lucasvo> ogra: what about edubuntu for older students?
<ogra> a similar project is there with someone driving around with a CD writer
<lucasvo> this is a brilliant idea...
<ogra> lucasvo, for now we'll only have 3 diffrent themes ...
<lucasvo> ogra: I have to note that
<ogra> for three different ages
<lucasvo> ogra: I will talk about that with revamp-it
<lucasvo> ogra: is it already working in dapper?
<ogra> but the plan is to make menu profiles later that a) respect the theme/ages selection and b) are task driven ...
<ogra> nope
<ogra> thats not for dapper
<ogra> dapper will only have the three themes as a base for the other stuff
<janimo> night guys
<ogra> night janimo 
<lucasvo> ogra: so, I can't speed it somehow up?
<lucasvo> is there any todo list?
<ogra> there is the list in the meeting notes from the edubuntu roadmap meeting we had in montreal
<lucasvo> ogra: is it in the wiki?
<lucasvo> hi claude 
<francoisb> Hello,
<lucasvo> francoisb: good night
<francoisb> I've installed an edubuntu in place of an ubuntu to have an ltsp server
<francoisb> I kept my home partition
<francoisb> Everything seems fine but it's impossible to login on the TX
<ogra> did you read http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ?
<francoisb> I don't know*
<francoisb> Ok I've read it
<ogra> are the clients booting fine ? 
<francoisb> Yes until the login screen
<francoisb> but read-only errors are reported
<ogra> thats normal ...
<francoisb> one in /network/run/ifstate
<ogra> its some cosmetic stuff that will go away in the next release
<ogra> dont worry about it, its all fiune if you get to the login screen...
<ogra> but check /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts on the server
<ogra> it should contain a host key and the right ip address
<ogra> if thats not the case, run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
<ogra> make sure sshd is running on the server if you try to log in ...
<francoisb> I try
<ogra> and indeed the user must exist on the server ....
<francoisb> There is some 192.168.0.1 but I swaped the server to 10.0.0.2
<ogra> ah, then run the command i gave you above
<ogra> and make sure 10.0.0.2 shows up in the file with a key assigned
<francoisb> Thank you, I did'nt knows if this command was availaible now
<ogra> the command is always available as long as edubuntu-server is installed (the default)
<francoisb> It's updated
<ogra> great
<ogra> now try to boot the client and try to log in again
<francoisb> I'ts fine !
<ogra> great :)
<francoisb> Now can demontrate how to use old PC's (we have some in Franbce too)
<ogra> they are everywhere in the world ;)
<francoisb> I would be glad to participate somehow (french translation of Wiki?)
<ogra> sure
<ogra> if you have time, come to the weekly meeting tomorrow
<ogra> its at 13:00 european time every wednesday
<ogra> in #ubuntu-meeting 
<lucasvo> I have school then, but I think I will just log it :D
<francoisb> On Xchat?
<francoisb> Ok, I'll try
<ogra> great :) 
<ogra> lucasvo, its logged on  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ as this channel is too ...
<lucasvo> hm, ok
<ogra> (all ubuntu channels are logged there)
<lucasvo> 13:00 gmt?
<ogra> 12:00 gmt 
<francoisb> You can send me things to translate by mail either
<ogra> 13:00 german/french/swiss time
<claude> francoisb: subscribe to the french mailing list
<ogra> francoisb, the documentation guys will be there ... i do more development than docs
<claude> we coordinate there work in french
<ogra> we have a good bunch of stuff different people work on and translate on ..
<francoisb> The adress ?
<ogra> i.e. most important is the edubuntu cookbook where alrady some work is happening
<claude> francoisb: ubuntu_edubuntu-subscribe@lists.apinc.org
<francoisb> Ok, thanks
<ogra> francoisb, the edubuntu-devel list might also be intresting, the main development and doc work is done there ... the edubuntu-fr people just started to coordinate with us there too
<ogra> lucasvo, hmm what did you delete from the topic, seems there is missing a bunch of stuff
<loogaroo> hi
<francoisb> I'm in contact with the french Skolelinux staff, It could be fine to have synergy
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Just ASK and wait till somebody responds | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuIn
<loogaroo> hi ogra
<ogra> francoisb, yes, that would be cool... the german guys just invited me to visit their lab in february ...
<lucasvo> ogra: ehm I just added "Just ASK and wait till somebody
<ogra> hi loogaroo 
<lucasvo>           responds"
<lucasvo> ogra: and removed the pastebin
<ogra> the meeting date is missing too and the url for mailing list subscription was broken
<lucasvo> ogra: hm, this is strange
<lucasvo> ogra: sorry
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Just ASK and wait till somebody responds | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<francoisb> Ok, have a good night now
<ogra> and the pastebin os very helpful...
<ogra> lucasvo, no worrie :)
<ogra> s
<lucasvo> ogra: but is it more important than telling users just to ask?
<ogra> the lenght is limited and the just ask text is very long ...
<ogra> usually JaneW puts in all important dates and urls there
<lucasvo> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel  < is long as well
<lucasvo> :D
<ogra> yes, but we want people to be able to subscribe easy without searching...
<ogra> getting more people on the list is an oimportant task to show we have a community... so mark will keep the project running
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Just ASK and wait till somebody responds | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org
<ogra> argh
<lucasvo> ogra: :D
<ogra> sorry, but i will delete that sentence ... there is just not enough space
<lucasvo> no problem
<lucasvo> ogra: but why is this still in topic: dubuntu 5.10 is out,
<lucasvo> already more than 2 month olds....
<lucasvo> ogra: is makr talking about stopping funding edubuntu?
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on Dec. 14th 12:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Download edubuntu 5.10 from http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubunt
<ogra> damned
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on Dec. 14th 12:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting. there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| edubuntu 5.10 isos: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra> finally
<lucasvo> The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download Version 5.10 on  http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | ......
<lucasvo> what do you think of this^^
<ogra> feel free to shuffle stuff around now, just make sure all info is still in there :)
<lucasvo> ogra: I first have to find out how to change topic correctly in irssi
<ogra> lucasvo, the project is still young, and he will measure its success by people participating in the official channels, lists and the wiki
<lucasvo> ah you juast have to press tab
<lucasvo> ogra: hm, ok
<ogra> things like this will for example decide about a pressed CD for dapper 
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:lucasvo] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on Dec. 14th 12:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting. there will be NO meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan. | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra> great :)
<loogaroo> where can I file bugs for edubuntu?
<loogaroo> launchpad.net oder bugzilla,ubuntu.com?
<ogra> in bugzilla.ubuntu.com
<ogra> all stuff contained in edubuntu is in main... bugs for main go to bugzilla ...
<ogra> use launchpad only for bugs in universe packages
<loogaroo> and die bugs from dapper to launchpad, or?
<ogra> nope, the same applies for dapper
<ogra> you are running dapper ? 
<loogaroo> hmm, ok
<loogaroo> no, breezy
<ogra> ah ok
#edubuntu 2006-12-11
<LaserJock> pitux: regarding your eariler question, generally adding any 3rd party software will make the system lest stable overall
<LaserJock> pitux: but a package here or there generally isn't too bad as long as they have compatible dependencies and you watch thos packages during upgrades
<LaserJock> pitux: what in particular are you interested in?
<pitux> mainly a package call controlaula
<LaserJock> ah
<pitux> it's a vnc client for students in school
<LaserJock> I've heard of it
<pitux> can you see more information here
<pitux> Linex developed alot of applications
<pitux> http://www.itais.net/controlaula/
<pitux> educational applications... very interesting
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I think we used linex packages for squeak
<pitux> ahhhhh
<pitux> good
<LaserJock> we have a similar app to controlaula in Edubuntu called Student Control Panel
<pitux> is possible integrate controlaula and other packages in edubuntu?
<LaserJock> well, it's possible but sometimes it's not exactly easy
<pitux> ok... beacuse are differents versions of package?
<pitux> for example ubuntu and debian?
<LaserJock> well, they might need to improved a little bit
<LaserJock> Ubuntu and Debian have pretty decent quality and security standards
<pitux> ahhhhhh ok I understand.....
<LaserJock> I would think linex packages wouldn't need much but I'm not sure
<LaserJock> I'm not saying anything against linex at all
<LaserJock> but we find that often that packages coming from other sources need a little improvement before they enter the repos
<pitux> I understand
<LaserJock> pitux: have you used linex much?
<pitux> I'm a teacher... math teacher
<LaserJock> oh cool
<LaserJock> I'm a chemist
<pitux> I think that Linex is a good distro
<LaserJock> or a PhD chemisty student rather
<pitux> for teachers... and schools
<pitux> it's eassier
<pitux> I'm from Chile
<pitux> where are you from LaserJock?
<LaserJock> USA
<pitux> ahhhh ok
<LaserJock> I think the one of the reasons we don't have controlaula was it uses gambas
<pitux> In the school where I work... we are using ubuntu
<LaserJock> well, not have but use in Edubuntu
<LaserJock> good to hear, how is that workin?
<pitux> mmmm some problems with the users... mainly the compatibility with microsoft products
<pitux> and other problems with the pendrives....
<pitux> but nothing special.....
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I use edubuntu at the university and have similar issues with MS compatibility
<pitux> yeah....
<pitux> the users don't understand about kind of files....
<pitux> ok LaserJock I have leave this chat
<pitux> nice to meet you
<LaserJock> yes, nice to meet you too
<LaserJock> stop by again
<LaserJock> if you have particular packages from Linex you'd like to see let us know
<LaserJock> I must confese the language barrier has kept me from investigating it too much
<LaserJock> *confess
<pitux> ok LaserJock.... what topics do you review in your reseacrh?
<pitux> sorry, but my english is not good....
<LaserJock> it's fine
<LaserJock> I'm looking at molecule motors with lasers
<pitux> wow
<pitux> in this moment..... don't exist a particular packege from linex
<pitux> because squeak is supported in edubuntu
<pitux> for example.... can be interesting install geogebra by apt
<pitux> and java too
<pitux> linex has this options... this is very important for the teachers
<pitux> ok LaserJock... see you later
<pitux> I go to the bed... bye
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: you still around?
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> do you have a feeling for when we might be able to get Java (enough to run Java apps) in Main?
<LaserJock> I think Java would be pretty killer for Edubuntu
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: any thoughts? or are you totally digusted with the idea ;-)
<Burgundavia> sure, when we get free java] 
<LaserJock> well, I'm not very in the know
<LaserJock> is that going to be in any reasonable time?
<LaserJock> I couldn't figure out what exactly was GPL'd
<Burgundavia> we are talking feisty+1 I imagine
<Burgundavia> everything was gpl
<Burgundavia> but the code isn't there yet
<LaserJock> I suppose that it would be naive to think they could just dump the code in a tarball and be done with it
<Burgundavia> yes
<cbx33> would planet be able to handle a google video embed on my blog?
<highvoltage> it should do it fine
<highvoltage> although if your blog is aggregated on any drupal aggregators, I don't think they handle it well
<cbx33> ahhh right
<cbx33> think I should avoid it?
<cbx33> ping oge
<cbx33> ogra
<highvoltage> cbx33: nah, I don't think you need to avoid it, if some people have trouble seeing it they can just visit your blog
<cbx33> ok cool
<cbx33> thanks bud
<cbx33> has anyone had any experience in setting up a radius/ads enterprise level wireless security
<willvdl> not me
<willvdl> i'm afraid
<willvdl> only security exp i have is digging aspiked pit
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> cool
<rodarvus> is this like, Windows ADS? :)
<cbx33> yes
<rodarvus> (I was just kidding ;) )
<rodarvus> all I know is that the sysadmin at my previous job lost a very long time trying to setup this stuff
<rodarvus> it seems it doesn't works quite well (or for all clients, at least)
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> I have to set it up for the school
<cbx33> seems kinda overkill if you ask me
<rodarvus> indeed, this seems to be overkill for a school
<rodarvus> I suppose machines willing to authenticate with the radius server will somehow need to be part of the 'domain'
<highvoltage> anyone else experiencing strangeness with the mailing list? (edubuntu-devel)
<highvoltage> I sent a message last night but it didn't come back.
<highvoltage> juliux also sent a message but I didn't receive it.
* highvoltage sends a test message
<cbx33> rodarvus: indeed
<cbx33> they must be domain members hence the ads part ;)
<cbx33> awww planet strips out all embedded stuff
<willvdl> cbx33 ping
<cbx33> pong willvdl
<willvdl> ola. Do you think ESA should be version specific?
<cbx33> yes
<willvdl> i.e. different branches for different releases...
<cbx33> or parts of it definitely
<cbx33> it's becoming a sought after doc so I've seen
<willvdl> yeah
<cbx33> everyone points to it, so we need to make sure it stays up to date
<willvdl> I'm trying to work out how to maintain different versions in svn and h.u.c
<cbx33> right i see
<willvdl> svn repo obviously uses branches for different releases
<willvdl> which are automatically mapped to help.u.c
<willvdl> and then the trunk maps to doc.u.c
<cbx33> hmmmm
<cbx33> yeh
<willvdl> makes sense but I don't have the bandwidth at the mo to check :(
* willvdl can only get EDGE connection and is sitting on the roof
<cbx33> argh
<willvdl> okie, cbx33, will put up a planning page on Doc Team wiki (we don't currently have Edubuntu space there so I'll make one of those too) and then I'm still keen to try dotproject for tracking
<cbx33> good good
<cbx33> i'm all on board
<willvdl> are you on marketing team?
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> suppose i should be
<willvdl> jsut thinking of expanding ESA into advocacy guides for users, admins, etc but am not sure if that should go to marketing or if only the final products should
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> i agree it's needed
<willvdl> essentially they're docs...so doc team generates
<cbx33> there's no harm in community generation
<cbx33> doc team proofing
<willvdl> but they're used for marketing...so marketing team inputs
<cbx33> sure
<willvdl> moot point actually
<willvdl> thanks
<willvdl> doc team proofing...makes sense
<willvdl> edubuntu team generation
<cbx33> shoud I join the marketting team willvdl ?
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> hey bddebian
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<sbalneav> Morning all
<cbx33> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello cbx33
<cbx33> how are you havn't seen you for a long time
<sbalneav> Was up north for a week or so.
<sbalneav> Doing a big upgrade to Ubuntu Edgy
<sbalneav> Now I'm having problems with nfs :(
<cbx33> ahhh nice
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> what kinda problems?
<sbalneav> Well, I've got 2 LTSP servers
<sbalneav> A and B, lets call 'em
<sbalneav> Home dirs are all on A
<sbalneav> NFS mounted to B
<sbalneav> Everything works fine on A
<sbalneav> B gets all kinds of "Stale NFS handle" messages.  Sometimes it works, sometimes not.
<sbalneav> Argh
<sbalneav> bug #62308
<sbalneav> !62308
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about 62308 - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<juliux> ubotu, malone
<ubotu> launchpad is a collection of development services for Open Source projects. It's Ubuntu's Bounty and Bug tracker, and much more; see https://launchpad.net/
<Dheeraj_k> can any body tell me is it unsfe to access net as root? if yes than why?
<Burgwork> yes, but browser security is a lie basically
<Burgwork> and if your browser get owned, it is running as root and thus you are owned
<Dheeraj_k> can u pls provide me the link of any web site which has complete info?
<Burgwork> sorry, nothing off the top of my head
<sbalneav> Doing any kind of "user" activities as root (i.e. mail, browsing, etc) is a bad thing.
<sbalneav> If there's a security bug in any program, you're running as root, which has the permissions to modify anything on the system.  Always do your web browsing as a common user.
<sbalneav> It's much much safer that way.
<Dheeraj_k> actually this question has been asked by our Professor
<Laser_away> sbalneav!
<sbalneav> hey hey
<Dheeraj_k> does it make system vulnerable to virus?
<Burgwork> not unless teh virus already affects linux
<Dheeraj_k> i mean linux virus
<Burgwork> it makes it easier for the virus to spread, now that it has root access
<Dheeraj_k> ah thanx for the info :)
<stgraber> hi
<LaserJock> hi stgraber
<pirast> ogra, hi
<les> Can anyone tell me how to block unwanted websites in edubuntu?
<Burgwork> willowng
<Burgwork> les ^
<les> willowng?
<Burgwork> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=willowng
<les> got it, thanks.  I've been using kubuntu for a while now and plan on using edubuntu for the kids
#edubuntu 2006-12-12
<Burgwork> where is Scott when you need him?
<maccabeus> hey corey
<Burgundavia> hey maccabeus
<maccabeus> Burgundavia, do you know of anyone using schooltool or schoolbell for calendaring?
<Burgundavia> nope
<maccabeus> #schooltool is dead
<maccabeus> nobody's around to answer questions --
<maccabeus> anybody out there using schooltool or schoolbell?
<maccabeus> or any other collaboration/calendaring system on ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> what is your issue?
<maccabeus> I need a decent collaboration system for scheduling both people and resources --
<maccabeus> I could use Zimbra, but it's huge
<maccabeus> Hula's dead
<Burgundavia> need it for a school?
<maccabeus> small non-profit educational org
<Burgundavia> and what are you needs?
<maccabeus> scheduling for individuals, ability to check for conflicts in other's schedules to assist with scheduling meetings. ability to schedule resources like conference rooms
<Burgundavia> do you need mail?
<Burgundavia> right, just scheduling?
<maccabeus> eventually  --- mainly scheduling at this point
<maccabeus> I can do mail with Postfix and cyrus if I needed to now but we're relying on an isp for the time being
<maccabeus> If mail was thrown in I'd take it so I can use calendaring
<Burgundavia> there are a number of fairly mature pieces of scheduling software on sf.net, although I have used none of them
<maccabeus> the key is choosing one that's going to be around for a while
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> hula is not really for schedule
<maccabeus> I'm checking sf now...
<Burgundavia> look for scheduling software
<maccabeus> thanks corey -- tom answered my q's about schoolbell -- catch you later
<RichEd> hey cbx33 ...
<RichEd> gotta minute for me ?
<cbx33> for you anything ;)
<RichEd> 1 min ...
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> pm?
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
(LaserJock/#edubuntu) cbx33: we hope the funding agencies things so anyway ;-)
<cbx33> applications?
<RichEd> cbx33: very very small cars :)
<cbx33> hahah
<LaserJock> RichEd: NanoCars in fact
<LaserJock> a famous researcher at Rice University is building some
<willvdl> all right. connection back up !
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<willvdl> hey
<cbx33> i meant o say something to you yesterday but you'd already gone
<willvdl> yeah connection was fuzzy but is back now
<willvdl> wassup?
<cbx33> trouble is I can't remember what it was ;)
<willvdl> ah
<cbx33> hehe
<willvdl> eat some peanut butter
<cbx33> it was about ESA
<willvdl> or drink a red bull
<willvdl> speaking of which: can we expunge https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy and make it a planning (like launchpad features) page
<willvdl> seeing as how ESA is on help.u.c
<cbx33> willvdl: go for it
<cbx33> that page is defunct now any way
<willvdl>  yip.
<willvdl> currently busy putting edubuntu references into docteam pages
<cbx33> ok cool
* willvdl tries to figure out what exactly the difference is between the about guide and the release notes
<willvdl> hey rodarvus
<cbx33> willvdl: so how are we going to move forward with ESA?
<cbx33> we can pimp up SCP a little more now ;)
<rodarvus> hi there
<willvdl> cbx33, lets decide on the intended audience. we drew up a list of possibilities ages ago but it needs to be filtered
<willvdl> i.e. user vs admin vs auntie vs prime minister
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> imho it's not much good targetting admins
<willvdl> currently it's like a user advocacy guide would you say?
<cbx33> not at the moment
<cbx33> geared at teachers I'd say
<willvdl> agreed. they would rather have the manual
<cbx33> so....
<cbx33> I think the best target is teachers/users
<cbx33> we want them to say...I WANT IT
<willvdl> teachers would be most interested in apps
<cbx33> and the admins to have to do it
<willvdl> gotcha
<willvdl> so target principles down to teachers
<willvdl> advocacy to a "school" as such
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> imho....
<cbx33> RichEd: will be able to help us out here ;)
<willvdl> yeah.
<willvdl> then more audiences
<willvdl> of course same will eventually apply to manuals as well
<cbx33> yes
<willvdl> so maybe we should move the planning elsewhere?
<RichEd> cbx33: I agree with you with targetting teachers & users ... with the following comment:
<jsgotangco> greetings earthlings i come in peace
<RichEd> You yourself have problems getting the higher upstream people to accept open source.
<willvdl> woot
<RichEd> So ground up is necessary not sufficient ...
<cbx33> no i agree
<RichEd> We also need a version for decision makers. Top down.
<cbx33> (RichEd: did you get my pm)
<cbx33> yes totally
<willvdl> RichEd, such materials will look rather more like marketing stuff
<RichEd> Note however that our compelling arguments / features for "large scale education deployment" regarding cost of ownership (simpler deployment, updates & admin) will com in Feisty.
<willvdl> the ESA is basically a web reference where people follow up to
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> but sometimes that can be a better argument
<cbx33> they can then see in such a short time how much we are developing
<cbx33> and often they are not ready to switch straight away anyway ;)
<jsgotangco> make something like an interactive session of edubuntu available on the web :) that's how MS does with their virtual labs
<RichEd> willvdl: agreed ... but what we don't want is all of the various target audience arguments in one document "without an index" of sorts ... i.e. the decision maker does not want to read about every application to get to the bits that "press his buttons".
<jsgotangco> although that's a really really big infrastructure
<jsgotangco> but nothing beats hands on :)
<cbx33> jsgotangco: you could be right there
<willvdl> RichEd, agreed. School Advocacy is basically for the "School"
<cbx33> could we do a java vnc to a box setup somewhere
<jsgotangco> because it works
<RichEd> So as an easy way to get to what I think we need, can we structure the document in sections ... If you are a teacher ... If you are a system administrator ... all in one doc to start, and then we can split versions as step 2 ?
<willvdl> perhaps we should look at a namespace change?
<cbx33> RichEd: sure
<willvdl> jsgotangco: shipit --> live CD
<cbx33> willvdl: yeh, but takes time
<jsgotangco> sure
<RichEd> jsgotangco: agreed ... but the old dudes who make decisions in places like the UK are not really going to play with an Edubuntu install ... they are more office bound conservative people.
<cbx33> sometimes by the time the cd comes they have lost interest
* willvdl head spins
<cbx33> RichEd: true, but they may give the address/cd out to someone and say take a look tell me what you think
<RichEd> They want to know how Edubuntu will affect thier budget. How they can use the same budget, but move across some capex & licence fees into Training. More training on the same budget spend means lower support calls & costs.
<cbx33> also cd's at the mo are for dapper, so they are not seeing the true improvments ;)
<willvdl> We're talking about advocacy material. Showcase stuff. No technical info unless it refers to some kind of server setup
<cbx33> RichEd: we need testamonies
<willvdl> cbx33, they are coming into mystory :) lots of them
<RichEd> cbx33: they are coming in via various directions ... we are trying to consolidate.
<willvdl> framework first, data later :)
<cbx33> fantastic
<willvdl> Perhaps we could change ESA to EA (Edubuntu Advocacy)?
<willvdl> or something more glitzy (e.g. Edubuntu Experience)
<cbx33> willvdl: the name ESA was never an official name
<cbx33> hence why on the edubuntu.org site it's called
<cbx33> Using Edubuntu
<willvdl> ah. never noticed that :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> we don;t want to tell people that we are advocating our product ;)
<cbx33> that should be subconscious ;)
<willvdl> yip
<willvdl> Are you happy with Using Edubuntu?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> no
<jsgotangco> no
<willvdl> neither :)
<willvdl> LEts hash a name so that we have a landing
<jsgotangco> i am ashamed to say i am using vista at work at the moment
<cbx33> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<willvdl> jsgotangco, one must always keep a grips on the outside world :P
<cbx33> willvdl: that's a tough one
<jsgotangco> cbx33: its actually a nice looking os if you have the hardware
<willvdl> ag, I suppose a name change is no biggy to do in the wiki
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> no...just coming up with thename is tricky
<willvdl> jsgotangco, playing with new office yet?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> its pretty wild
<jsgotangco> Office Groove
<jsgotangco> hah
<willvdl> cbx33 meaning that it is not necessarily critical now
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> agreed
<jsgotangco> its pretty much 80% bling features anyways
* willvdl navigates wiki
<cbx33> it seems just Win XP + bling
<cbx33> besides Beryl is so much better and will run on much worse hardware ;)
<RichEd> willvdl: we can chat about the name ... I think it is quite important that is conveys benefits or improvements in the actual name or title
<Amaranth> what new exciting thing are we talking about now?
<jsgotangco> realy Beryl is better?
<jsgotangco> i have very litle use of spinning cubes
<Amaranth> What is it? I'll tell you if it's better. ;)
<willvdl> RichEd, jsut looking for a planning page really
<cbx33> heheh, i don;t use spinning cubes, but I do use transparent windows
<cbx33> willvdl: why not just use the old advocacy page?
<Amaranth> *tap*tap*tap* Is this thing on? :)
<cbx33> just delete everything on it
<cbx33> sorry Amaranth
<jsgotangco> lol
<cbx33> we're discussing edubuntu school advocacy
<cbx33> our marketing doc out to schools
<willvdl> and somehow Beryl at the same time
<Amaranth> heh
<Amaranth> yeah..
<cbx33> that was jsgotangco's fault ;)
<Amaranth> what are you comparing to beryl? the docs?
<jsgotangco> lol
<cbx33> yes...
<willvdl> cbx33, how about registering it as a launchpad project/product
<cbx33> is the ESA as bling as Beryl
<cbx33> willvdl: good idea
<cbx33> then we can use rosetta right?
<willvdl> true
<jsgotangco> nahh i was saying how Aero takes the bling level quite nicely but its 80% bling and 20% OS
<cbx33> who remembers BlueKuja?
<Amaranth> haha, i was getting ready to dive into code and look at implementations of compositors :)
<willvdl> cbx33. genius. why do I ALWYAS forget about Rosetta
<cbx33> Amaranth: cool
<Amaranth> no no, i meant i thought you were talking about a new one
<cbx33> willvdl: happens to the best of us ;)
<cbx33> Amaranth: hahaha
<Amaranth> although i am waist-deep in compositor-related code ;)
<cbx33> ;)
<willvdl> okie. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy will then become the Spec page
<cbx33> good plan
<willvdl> which we can change as the name changes
<cbx33> totally
<willvdl> can one change a launchpad product name?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> not sure
<willvdl> urk
<willvdl> ok. forget launchpad until later then
<cbx33> hmm
<cbx33> well....it can be more of a generic name for LP
<cbx33> like Edubuntu Marketing Docs
<cbx33> doesn't have to be our final name for it
<willvdl> good idea
<willvdl> Edubuntu MArketing Material
<cbx33> just means it's one less thing that we have to do later ;)
<willvdl> subdivided into sub products
<willvdl> website stuff, printed stuff etc
<cbx33> totally
<willvdl> OK, I think the E Mark Material name is safe
<cbx33> yup
<willvdl> jsut want to surf Launchpad to see how marketing jobs are registered
<willvdl> we already have the team
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> genius
<willvdl> hmmm, what wiki category to use...
<willvdl> cbx33 check: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<willvdl> can I remove the leaflets from the wiki? are they safe alsewhere?
<cbx33> nah, kill em ;) or just kill the links and leave them attached in the background?
<RichEd> quick tech question: can anyone tell me how to unload and reload my video driver without a reboot ?
<willvdl> RichEd, restart X?
<RichEd> willvdl: makes sense ... command line instructions ? and will it kill my gui applications that are open ?
<cbx33> yes it will
<cbx33> do
<willvdl> alt-cntrl-bspace
<cbx33> sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart
<RichEd> :( That's as bad as a reboot. Means I have to tidy my open desktops. Damn.
<cbx33> sorry dude
<willvdl> cbx33: telinit for the real geek
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> i find sometimes Ctrl+Alt+Backspace doesn't always work right
<willvdl> hmm, does it actually restart the ldm?
<cbx33> not sure
<RichEd> Last hope: Is there anything else that would refresh it ? Changing the screen display driver to an alternate driver or resolution via settings, and then back again ?
<willvdl> do you have dead pixels?
<willvdl> or some colourspace oddity
<RichEd> After I have played a move or two in MPlayer, the video screen goes dim. The sound plays, but the contracts decreases to the point where the video display is black. Some HP driver funny I presume.
<RichEd> *contrast
<willvdl> cbx33, need lunch quick. Feel free to jot ideas, namespaces etc on ESA wiki site
<willvdl> do you have hotkeys for lcd display level?
<RichEd> no ... don't think so
<cbx33> willvdl: will do if I get time
<RichEd> not serious ... okay for now
<willvdl> cbx33, I'll check with you before I register anything on launchpad
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks
<willvdl> cbx33, check http://diy.devubuntu.com/  <-- a devel page for spreadubuntu
<willvdl> kinda cool
<cbx33> willvdl: that dev site is cool, but seems a little broken
<willvdl> yip. dev-site :) those central icons are HUGE
<saywhat> hi all, i have a quick query about edubuntu that i cant seem to find the answer for on the website
<saywhat> cant seem to get schooltool to work, goto localhost:7080 and get logged in as manager no probs, but then attempting to add anything (resources, users etc) i just get "a system error has occured"
<saywhat> anybody else come across this?
<cbx33> willvdl: well not so much that....soem of hte links don't seem to work
<cbx33> looks great though ;)
<cbx33> woh, is this site being updated now...?
<willvdl> it is pretty live
<willvdl> the mailing list is 90% about the site
<Dheeraj_k> ! windows
<ubotu> For help with Microsoft Windows, please visit ##windows or your nearest mental health institute. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and !equivalents
<cbx33> willvdl: ok cool
<cbx33> so.....
<cbx33> where do we go from here?
<willvdl> first we screw my head back on :)
<cbx33> heh
<willvdl> OK we got audience
<cbx33> yup
<willvdl> now we need scope
<cbx33> we got a place to work
<cbx33> (wiki)
<willvdl> yeah. it's clean
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> got LP sorted?
<willvdl> and will link from launchpad tonight
<cbx33> nice
<willvdl> We need a nice blueprint/spec wiki page format
<willvdl> what kind of sub projects do you think will fall in here?
<willvdl> e.g. leaflets, booklets, handbooks, websites, advocacy
<cbx33> all of the above ;)
<willvdl> we can start plotting scope vs. audience
<cbx33> I think it's all linked
<cbx33> and we need a main place to being planning and collaborating
<willvdl> and some thoughts on how to automagically link written material
<willvdl> (ala TopicBasedHelp style)
<willvdl> perhaps
<cbx33> right
<willvdl> well, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy is perfect for planning
<cbx33> yup
<willvdl> current DocTeam style is to add a /Talk subpage for discussion
<willvdl> we need an outline that suits us for the page
<cbx33> yes I agree
<willvdl> urk doorbell...
<willvdl> we can also consider an opening letter to get us back into marketing team channels. Perhaps Burgwork can help here
<cbx33> hmmm
<willvdl> hey folks. how current is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuDocumentation ?
<cbx33> not very
<willvdl> Burgundavia, which one are you, Burgwork or Burgundavia? :)
<Burgundavia> both, but currently Burgundavia
<Burgundavia> rule of thumb is: try Burgundavia before you try Burgwork
<willvdl> ah. are you around later? want to chat about repos for marketing materials
<Burgundavia> not really. I suspect today could be quite insane at work
<willvdl> ah cool. will draft an email rather. need some advice
<bddebian> Heya
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> got a minute?
<LaserJock> yeah
<cbx33> ogra, you there buddy
<cbx33> please dude :p
<ogra> cbx33, i'm on my way out and really sorry oi didnt make the meeting, can we do it tomorrow ? i'm on my way out ...
<cbx33> I'll try...
<stgraber> Hmm, meeting at 12UTC, sorry I won't be able to be here, but I should be at the next one. (anyway I don't have much to say I think, that's more about listening)
<Burgwork> sbalneav: ping
<sbalneav> pong
<elsigh> Heyall, I have a weird problem with a server machine.
<elsigh> After choosing "Install the Hard Disk" I end up on the screen with the blinking underscore and it just stays there
<elsigh> I can boot knoppix 2
<elsigh> the keyboard still registers too, as I can Ctrl-Alt-Delete and reboot
<willvdl> elsigh, what version are you installing?
<elsigh> latest, 2.6.10
<elsigh> funny thing is, the kernel on the hard drive does this too
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<elsigh> so I decided to use this machine to play with edubuntu
<cbx33> didn't see you return
<willvdl> hey cbx33
<elsigh> it's a nice dual proc machine, but maybe something is fried
<willvdl> you under-estimate my sneekyness
<elsigh> I've tried noacpi and noapic options for boot as well
<willvdl> elsigh, what hardware?
<willvdl> chipset
<elsigh> pentium 3
<cbx33> sneaky sneaky sir ;)
<willvdl> elsigh, can you do a RAM test?
<elsigh> I'll do it
<willvdl> cbx33, the "Install to Hard Disk" is the workstation install right?
<elsigh> no, the server install
<cbx33> server isntall or edubunut
<cbx33> do we even have that option anymore?
<willvdl> ah
<cbx33> oh yeh
<cbx33> sorry silly me
<elsigh> edubuntu terminal server install
<willvdl> hmm, what video hardware you got?
<willvdl> I'm not much of a techie so I doubt I could debug any X errors...
<elsigh> a shitty old vga monitor ..
<elsigh> nah, I dunno if it's even getting to the framebuffer
<elsigh> I've tried many a framebuffer setting in the kernel config
<elsigh> it *used* to work with the kernel on the drive
<willvdl> what video card? or onboard chipset?
<elsigh> onboard, yeah
<elsigh> maybe it's a different crappy monitor than before, but I've never seen that matter
<willvdl> not the monitor
<elsigh> 31% in on memtest and all good
<willvdl> rules that out then
<elsigh> yeah
<elsigh> it's a really frustrating situation for this school - I've been unable to use this nice donated machine for anything
<elsigh> rather, it's frustrating for me ;)
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> hmmm
<elsigh> but it can boot the cli w/ knoppix (2)
<cbx33> now I had a nice machine which I couldn't run knoppix in grahpical at all
<cbx33> elsigh, what amchien is it out of interest
<elsigh> it's a Penguin Computing server
<elsigh> from back in the day
<cbx33> hmmm
<elsigh> two 700MHz P3s
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> sounds very much liek the problem I had with the avantis content cache box
<elsigh> what'd ya do?
<cbx33> nothing ;~)
<willvdl> urk
<willvdl> knew you'd say that
<cbx33> sorry
<elsigh> hey, that's what I've done
<cbx33> not high enough on my priority list
<cbx33> hehehe
<elsigh> I feel like there must be some magick boot option
<willvdl> are your X logs all right?
<elsigh> no X logs
<willvdl> /var/log/ ?
<willvdl> oh wait, it doesn't boot right?
<elsigh> bingo
<globe> hello :-D
<willvdl> hi
<elsigh> I just get a blinking underscore in the top left of a black screen
<elsigh> lovely
<willvdl> elsigh, so no terminal at all
<elsigh> it's uncompressed the kernel
<elsigh> but that's it
<willvdl> I can only assume that your prior suspicion was right
<willvdl> kernel config
<globe> has anyone ever set up an edubuntu box as a terminal *server*?
<LaserJock> I thought that was the idea
<willvdl> perhaps try a standard workstation install and see if it boots, then we can debug further?
<willvdl> globe_switch, check http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<sbalneav> globe_switch: Yep, several times
<globe> what was that url again?
<willvdl> http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
<globe> thx...I closed that client b4 I snagged the url
<willvdl> sbalnaev, glad you're here, wanted to ask about ltsp docs
<globe> sbalneav: did you use LTSP?
<sbalneav> I sure did
<sbalneav> willvdl: Sure, what's up?
<globe> sweet.
<sbalneav> edubuntu comes with ltsp5
<sbalneav> willvdl: ask fast, I'm about to head over to another office :)
<willvdl> oh, sent a pvt msg
<willvdl> no worry
<sbalneav> saw it now
<sbalneav> OK all, heading to another office.
<sbalneav> be on later
<elsigh> you won't effing believe this
<elsigh> I tried a different monitor
<elsigh> and it works
<willvdl> really?
<willvdl> strange, would not have thought that...
<elsigh> I cannot believe my eyes
<willvdl> it's a relief anyway
<elsigh> it's nuts
<elsigh> this defies years of larval mode knowledge
<globe> whats a netsplit?
<stgraber> that's what happen when the connection between an irc server and the network is broken
<globe> hmm...okay
<stgraber> it happens because of routing problem, server crash, maintenance, ...
<globe> I can't say as that I have ever seen it before...
<globe> does anybody know if the keyboard preferences are system wide or user wide?
<Kamping_Kaiser> user
<Kamping_Kaiser> or user changable
<Kamping_Kaiser> set systemwide, tehn changed per use
<Kamping_Kaiser> r
<globe> so, if I change the default keyboard layout in the "keyboard settings" applet that should only affect my account...even though I am an admin.  Thats what I am hoping for...
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<globe> I suppose that I should test just to make sure that somebody doesn't get stuck with a dvorak when they qwerty....
<globe> lol...
#edubuntu 2006-12-13
<willvdl> g'night all
<blue-phuz> hello all
<blue-phuz> can get some help with a gfx card
<LaserJock> hmm, you might want to try #ubuntu actually
<LaserJock> there are a lot more people there
<blue-phuz> ya no one will respond to me
<blue-phuz> i know its some thing ssiple but i havent a clue
<blue-phuz> simple*
<LaserJock> what's the problem?
<blue-phuz> when i goto change resolution the screen corrupts and the systm locks up
<LaserJock> ok, and how are you changing the resolution?
<blue-phuz> it looks like when a lcd is cracked with all the lines
<blue-phuz> any way
<globe> does anybody know of a good guide to setting up ltsp?  I have edubuntu installed and thats about as far as i've gotten....
<LaserJock> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp.html ?
<globe> hmm...thx.  I'll take a look
<bddebian> Heya
<globe> hello.
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi cbx33
<cbx33> phew this is early ;)
<LaserJock> yeah
<RichEd> hi corey
<willvdl> highvoltage, hey
<RichEd> hi willvdl ] 
<RichEd> willvdl: note that quite a few of your posts ge held back from the lists because you post from a different address to the one you subscribed from
<willvdl> hi RichEd
<willvdl> RichEd, I know :|
<willvdl> can you add me as a moderator?
<RichEd> the easiest thing to do is to subscribe as all the addresses you might mail from, and then select "no emails" from all but one
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi willvdl , RichEd
<willvdl> aha. didn't think of that
<willvdl> Kamping_Kaiser, hey
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<RichEd> I've been cleaning out the moderator backlog from users ... will keep it up to date now
<RichEd> hey Kamping_Kaiser ... hows things ?
<willvdl> good news is we're making headway on doc planning
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, busy :|, i havent had a chance to un[tar,zip]  the thing we talked about last time
<RichEd> Great. I was following your discussion yesterday. Things like "What is the difference between release notes and about" are significant ... we need a list of docs and what they do ... targetted, focused, and procedures for updates. Looks like you have the ball rolling.
<RichEd> Thanks.
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: no worries ... when you have some time.
* Kamping_Kaiser will try and collect the stuff at work tomorrow
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah, 2.0 is out
* Kamping_Kaiser wgets
<willvdl> cbx33, just got LP rights. time for some updates :] 
<highvoltage> hey willvdl
<willvdl> highvoltage, been having some very interesting doc-team discussions
<willvdl> am looking for your input if possible
<cbx33> willvdl: nice
<cbx33> I'm here
<cbx33> just shout when you need me
<willvdl> hmmm, was a premature but not a problem
<willvdl> check http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-doc-2006-12-12.html from 11:30
<willvdl> and http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-doc-current.html till 12:50
<highvoltage> willvdl: anything in particular you'd want me to look at? I'll read through a bit later, there's a lot going on here atm
<willvdl> whew. trying to write up some thoughts on wiki. probably best way. will point you to it
<cbx33> excellent job willvdl
<cbx33> so we're going with svn?
<willvdl> yeah. guess so. six of one...
<willvdl> you got access?
<willvdl> give some thought on how to use branches vs sub-directories for non-release docs
<cbx33> yes I will
<cbx33> LaserJock is going to get my access
<cbx33> so that shouldn't be a problem
<willvdl> cool
<willvdl> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-advocacy <-- is this still valid? Can we rather integrate it into marketing team?
<highvoltage> willvdl: yes
<highvoltage> willvdl: it can be integrated into marketing
<willvdl> highvoltage, do you think we are likely to justify an edubuntu-doc package anytime soon?
* willvdl notices there isn't even a kubuntu-doc package
<willvdl> nixternal, morning
<highvoltage> willvdl: if there's documentation to put into it, then yes. :)
<willvdl> :)
<willvdl> good answer
<highvoltage> willvdl: with the last release we had a edubuntu-doc package that contained modified content from the tuxlab technical and software modules
<willvdl> ah. didn't notice that
<highvoltage> willvdl: sorry, not last release, dapper release, I meant
<willvdl> trying to decide what to do with https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
<willvdl> I imagine it is basically taken care of in current ubuntu-doc?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> EdubuntuDocumentation has a lot of other stuff in it
<cbx33> but most of it now has been superseeced
<cbx33> apart from a few docs ;)
<cbx33> it's mainly handbook docs.....berfore handbook was awritten
<cbx33> is nixternal around?
<willvdl> I want to use it as a landing page for Edubuntu Doc Team so maybe I'll jsut move the current links down
<cbx33> ok do it
<cbx33> or dcall the page
<cbx33> EdubuntuDoc
<cbx33> or EdubuntuDocTeam
<willvdl> dcall?
<cbx33> dcall?
<willvdl> [11:32]  <cbx33> or dcall the page
<cbx33> yeh ...... I'm slow this morning dcall?
<willvdl> heh
<willvdl> highvoltage, how do I change "Details" in https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-doc
<cbx33> are you owner of the team ;)
<willvdl> cbx33, no, only administrator
<willvdl> starting on https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation  which should eventually redirect to /DocumentationTeam (somewhere in a subpage like kubuntu)
<barktpolar> Question: Is there a  aLive CD Version of Edubuntu 6.06 or must you install it?
<cbx33> there is a live versino
<barktpolar> K, cause when I got my Shipit CDs yesterday, there was only a installing option
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> ahhh
<Amaranth> edubuntu does not have a livecd, i thought
<cbx33> oh
<cbx33> doesn't it?
<Amaranth> we just have an installer cd
<cbx33> we did have in dapper I'm sure
<cbx33> oh maybe not on shipit
<Amaranth> there might be one but it's not a combined one with ubiquity like ubuntu
<juliux> Amaranth, i am sure that there is also a livecd
<juliux> Amaranth, and you can install from the live cd but with out ltsp;)
<Amaranth> ah, that's what it was
<cbx33> there is an ubiquity one
* Amaranth gets confused
<cbx33> cos I filed several bugs on it
<Amaranth> all i have is the edgy shipit cd
<juliux> Amaranth, all the server packages are not on the live cd
<barktpolar> Wait, Distribute Edgy CDs
<Amaranth> and ogra once told me edubuntu did not use the combined live/install thing
<juliux> http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-releases/edubuntu/6.06.1/
<juliux> Amaranth, that is right
<barktpolar> That is teh version I have
<juliux> Amaranth, but there is a livecd but you cann't install a edubuntu server from the live cd
<cbx33> the cd....at boot up
<juliux> Amaranth, that is why the live cd is call live cd and not desktop cd
<cbx33> says start Or install
<cbx33> I'm pretty sure
<juliux> ubuntu has desktop and alternate edubuntu has live and install
<juliux> http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-releases/edubuntu/6.10/
<juliux> there is a live and a install cd image;)
<barktpolar> Well, right now, I'm more focused on building up my Linux Collection and Edubuntu was one of the parts
<cbx33> excellent
<barktpolar> Curennt, I have Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Edubuntu 6.06
<barktpolar> and working on Xubuntu 6.06
<willvdl> cbx33, id didn't get far but have a look at https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
<willvdl> (completely wrong place for it but I was pushed for time)
<RichEd> ==== edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ===== 10 mins ===
<cbx33> crikey it is an all isn't it
<cbx33> willvdl: cool
<Kamping_Kaiser> brb for meeting
<juliux> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi juliux
<RichEd> how's dresden ? getting cold yet ?
<juliux> RichEd, a little bit, very cold wind today but +7 degree
<juliux> RichEd, i don't need my winter cloth
<RichEd> I'm at 25 today. Shorts & T-shirt & still hot in my office.
<RichEd> ==== edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting ===== now ! ===
<juliux> RichEd, hehe
<juliux> RichEd, last year we had 20cm snow in december
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
* willvdl brain hurt
* Kamping_Kaiser eyes hurt
<pips1> willvdl: ping
<Kamping_Kaiser> gnight all
<RichEd> night Kamping_Kaiser
<RichEd> hi rodarvus
<RichEd> rodarvus: Can we meet tomorrow for 30 mins ... what time would work for you ?
<rodarvus> sure, what time do you prefer?
<ogra> cbx33, have you seen https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pessulus/+bug/44802 ?
<pirast> ogra, ping
<pirast> where's ogra? :-/
<bddebian> Heya
<pirast> hey
<ogra> pirast, sorry, very busy ... i saw your bugfix to klogic ...
<pirast> ogra, great :-)
<pirast> ogra, what are you doing all the time? ;-)
<ogra> currently carting for ltsp bugs, main inclusion of new packages etc ...
<ogra> then building the edubuntu-auth-server and testing it ... etc etc ...
<ogra> implementing all listzed specs from https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs ...
<pirast> argh ;-)
<pirast> hehe, I have holidays in a few days :-P
<ogra> me too (not that i would do anything different to a workday though :P)
<pirast> btw, if you still remember me, I spoke with a teacher and he sayd that we could move one lab to linux.. I do not know if he really does but I am currently preparing my laptop to present it :-)
<pirast> do you know any howtos on mounting samba shares as home directorys and authentification against windows servers?
<pirast> ogra, hehe
<pirast> auth should hopefully work with ldap
<juliux> hi pirast
<pirast> hi juliux
<sbalneav> Morning all
<willvdl> hey
<pips1> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hello pips1
<ogra> scottie !!!
<cbx33> ogra: yes I saw that bug
<cbx33> but it's a pessulus/gconf thing.
<ogra> yep
<cbx33> I'll have to look into it I suppose, I don;t think vuntz is working on pessulus much anymore
<ogra> i was just wondering if its related to your patch
<cbx33> i don;t think so
<nixternal> good mornin'
<nixternal> holy cow, 9:32, I thought it was 7:30
<cbx33> hey nixternal
<nixternal> whats up cbx33
<nixternal> oh i don't even want to look at email this morning
<cbx33> I wanted you for something earlier now I can't remember what it was
<cbx33> ogra https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/pessulus/+bug/44802 that was bugged before i started playing with pessulus
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> ah
<cbx33> phew
<cbx33> ping ogra
<sbalneav> Think he's having dinner
<cbx33> ah
<juliux> sbalneav, it's to early for dinner;)
<sbalneav> Not in Germany
<juliux> sbalneav, we have no 18:00
<juliux> it is a early dinner,)
<sbalneav> 18:00
<sbalneav> 's 6:00!  Man, that's time for dinner!
<juliux> for me not;)
<sbalneav> I like to eat at least 5 hours before I go to bed, otherwise sometimes I get heartburn :)
<juliux> hehe
<cbx33> awwww
<cbx33> ping RichEd
<cbx33> highvoltage, where is edubuntugirl these days?
<cbx33> bbl
<Burgwork> http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2006/12/in_praise_of_edubuntu.html
<pirast> hi again!
<pirast> i have a question to the thin client booting from network... what if there are two dhcp servers in the network.. one the dhcp server of server1 and one the edubuntu dhcp server?
<pirast> from which one does the client boot then?
<pirast> can i specify this somehow?
<cbx33> Burgwork, w00t
<cbx33> you can't have two dhcp servers pirast
<pirast> cbx33, so no chance? :-(
<cbx33> well
<pirast> because there is a windows server in the network..
<cbx33> what server is the dhcp serveR?
<cbx33> is it windows based?
<cbx33> ;)
<pirast> yeah :-(
<cbx33> hang on two secs ;)
<cbx33> no smile there is a way
<pirast> k, thanks
<cbx33> I made sure of it
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> I have a windows dhcp server
<cbx33> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP#
<cbx33> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP
<cbx33> some of the deatils may need to be changed slighty
<pirast> i will have a look..
<pirast> thanks
<cbx33> but that you can pick up from the configuration file for the edubuntu dhcp server
<cbx33> it works trust me;)
<pirast> wow!
<pirast> many thanks I love you man :-)
<cbx33> no problem
<cbx33> oh you may like this too
<cbx33> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPMultiboot
<pirast> looks great, also :-
<pirast> :-)
<cbx33> ping nixternal
<nixternal> yo yo
<cbx33> take a look at those last two links
<cbx33> I should have put them in the handbook
<cbx33> what do you think?
<cbx33> if there isn't already data on them
<nixternal> hrmm.i know sbalneav was working on the LTSP part, it might be better to ask him on that one
<cbx33> ping sbalneav
<nixternal> time to roll out..i will bbiab
<LaserJock> hi Edubuntu people
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> need to tal to you
<cbx33> but going out
<cbx33> back alter
<cbx33> later
<cbx33> ping sbalneav LaserJock ogra
<cbx33> bbl
<LaserJock> heh
<Burgwork> hmm, interesting
<StephenL> How can I turn off or uninstall terminal services from edubuntu?
<Burgwork> you want to prevent users from using a terminal?
<LaserJock> or from using LTSP
<StephenL> LTSP
<LaserJock> you should be able to just turn on off the dhcp server
<sbalneav> Simplest would be just to turn off the dhcp server
<sbalneav> heh
<StephenL> I want to disable it in X though.
<Burgwork> you could simply uninstall it
<sbalneav> StephenL: just issue this command "update-rc.d -f dhcp3-server remove
<sbalneav> or, more accurately:
<sbalneav> sudo update-rc.d -f dhcp3-server remove
<StephenL> The dhcp server isn't what I'm worried about.  I have software that works fine in ubuntu, but in edubuntu it won't work.  It's something to do with how X listens with connections I believe.
<sbalneav> No, theres no difference in X between edubuntu and ubuntu.
<sbalneav> What's the software?  Maybe you're just missing a library?
<StephenL> It's the software for this: http://www.ncomputing.com/ncomputing/products/direct.php
<Burgwork> ncomputing is not LTSP, but some sort of properitary product
<StephenL> Right.
<StephenL> I need it to work and LTSP not to work.
<sbalneav> So, you say it works on ubuntu, but not edubuntu?
<sbalneav> So, why not use ubuntu? :)
<StephenL> Yes, it worked fine in ubuntu.
<sbalneav> All edubuntu is is ubuntu + ltsp + educational apps.
<StephenL> Yeah, I know.  It's easier to do an apt-get install edubuntu-desktop than to install all the apps individually.
<sbalneav> You don't want the ltsp, so just use ubuntu, and if you need some of the educational apps, just install them with synaptic.
<StephenL> I don't really want to reinstall I just want to get rid of the ltsp part.
<sbalneav> thats easy.
<sbalneav> rm -rf /opt/ltsp
<sbalneav> ltsp gone.
<StephenL> odd, i have not /opt/ltsp
<StephenL> s/not/no
<sbalneav> Did you start with a ubuntu box and add the edubuntu desktop?
<StephenL> Yes.
<sbalneav> Then you don't even have ltsp installed.
<sbalneav> ltsp only gets installed when you install from the cd
<sbalneav> installing edubuntu desktop doesn't get you the ltsp build, unless you run ltsp-build-client.
<sbalneav> So, ltsp isn't your problem.
<StephenL>  /usr/sbin/gdm --config=/etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf
<StephenL> Where is the config file that's telling gdm to use that config?
<StephenL> what is cdd?
<sbalneav> /etc/init.d/gdm
<sbalneav> That'll be part of the flexiserver "switch user" functionality.
<sbalneav> That's the same as in stock ubuntu, I beleive.
<StephenL> I don't have a gdm-cdd.conf on my ubuntu box.
<pirast> what are the reasons for edubuntu using the -386 kernel instead of the -generic one?
<sbalneav> From the /etc/init.d/gdm script:
<sbalneav> # Allow cdd to override the config
<sbalneav> if [ -f /etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf ] ; then
<sbalneav>         CONFIG_FILE="--config=/etc/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf"
<sbalneav> fi
<StephenL> yeah I see that
<sbalneav> if you're seeing that, you should have it.
<StephenL> gdm-cdd.conf is a symlink pointing to /etc/alternatives/gdm-config-derivative
<StephenL> Ubuntu does not have that symlink
<LaserJock> pirast: I don't think there was a decision to use -386 over -generic
<pirast> LaserJock, mhm because I just installed Edubuntu and it uses the 386 one by default..
<sbalneav> on edubuntu, it points to:
<sbalneav> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 44 2006-10-24 09:06 /etc/alternatives/gdm-config-derivative -> /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/gdm/gdm-cdd.conf
<sbalneav> so, just remove the link, and everything should be normal.
<LaserJock> pirast: there were bugs I think
<StephenL> that's what I'm trying now...
<pirast> LaserJock, okay.. thanks
<LaserJock> pirast: I don't think it was edubuntu specific though
<sbalneav> then invoke-rc.d gdm restart
<LaserJock> pirast: but perhaps
<sbalneav> which will kick you out of your X session, BTW
<StephenL> I'm ssh'd to the box in another location
<StephenL> I just rebooted it.
<sbalneav> meh, shouldn't EVER need to reboot a linux box :)
<sbalneav> just restarting the service should be fine.
<LaserJock> unless you're testing the kernel
<sbalneav> Well, ok, got me there.
<StephenL> I agree, but not sitting in front of the box I would just rather have it reboot.
<LaserJock> and sometimes vmware/qemu doesn't cut it ;-)
<sbalneav> Well, I gotta get going in a couple of minutes and drop off YET ANOTHER database server to our developer.  Apparently the $40,000 worth of hardware of ours sitting out at their site isn't sufficient, and they need ANOTHER $7,000 box.
<sbalneav> grmbl
<sbalneav> I'll be on later.
<sbalneav> cya all.
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> ping LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<cbx33> Dude i need help
<LaserJock> uh oh
<cbx33> hang on
<pirast> my dhcpd is up and running but other pcs can't connect to it via dhcp..
<LaserJock> is there another dhcp server around?
<pirast> no, only one :-(
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't know
<pirast> the pcs are connected directly..
<pirast> mhm
<pirast> and when i run "dhclient eth1" on the server, it does not work either
<pirast> (i did it before by mistake and it worked)
<pirast> then i restored my network settings because they were shot
<pirast> okay.. problem solved
<pirast> i though that the cable would not be crossed, but it was
<pirast> or the other way :-)
<pirast> i now get tftp error 1 (file not found).. any idea what's wrong?
<pirast> solved, too.. had to add i386
#edubuntu 2006-12-14
<steveywonder1986> hi all
<steveywonder1986> can somebody help me?
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<willvdl> hey.
<willvdl> my internot is crunchy today
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> define cruncy in technological terms
<Kamping_Kaiser> :(
<willvdl> like lumpy peanut butter
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> eeeewwwwwww
<Kamping_Kaiser> :S
<willvdl> can't get mail off my server
<willvdl> need to reboot. back in a tick
<cbx33> ping ogra ;)
<willvdl> my hat. struggled with a silly SSL popup that denied me from using my irc client
<willvdl> had to physically remove the SSL certs and restart
<cbx33> heh
<cbx33> but you're back now
<willvdl> highvoltage, ping
<willvdl> woops, must write up minutes from yesterday
<willvdl> cbx33: can I merge https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecords and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew?
<ogra> willvdl, no
<ogra> throw the old ones away or archive them somewhere
<willvdl> definately archive
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingRecordsNew should be the current one
<ogra> iirc
<willvdl> ogra, it's just the name "New"
<willvdl> so when I mean merge I really mean to say make RecordsNew -> Records
<willvdl> and Records -> archived
<ogra> right
<willvdl> cool, thanks
<ogra> perfect :)
<willvdl> need to fix some links to our records too
<willvdl> actually, there are references all over ubuntu to irc logs, agendas and minutes... not all of them are in the same place
<ogra> right
<ogra> all of them were set up by separate people or groups
<ogra> lets just keep ours under EdubuntuMeetingRecords and not care for other locations ...
<willvdl> yip. thinking of splitting into sub-pages, either by year, month or by meeting
<ogra> year/month sounds right
<ogra> why by meeting ? we only have one kind of meetings atm ...
<ogra> at least there wasnt any handbook meeting for quite some time
<willvdl> new subpage for each meeting but I think that is unnecessary
<ogra> yeah
<willvdl> ogra, what is https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingLogs/Edubuntu ?
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingLogs/Edubuntu?action=info
<ogra> who is ausimage ?
<willvdl> he is doc-team guy looking into automating more irc log stuff
<ogra> looks like raw logs
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Ausimage
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingLogs <-- instructions :)
<willvdl> urk, looks like work
<willvdl> unless he can automate it...
<willvdl> which, technically is quite possible with a few regex's and a verbal bot
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingSummarySpec seems to head that way
<cbx3> ogra: you still around
<cbx33> sorry willvdl was afk
<willvdl> urk. meeting logs are in but I'll have to do minutes tonight. gotto run
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> Good morning all!
<SimonAnibal> Morning, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Monring SimonAnibal
<SimonAnibal> How's life?
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<sbalneav> Well, big project at work coming to a head on January 2, so busy busy around here.
<sbalneav> Hey ogra, got a second to discuss powebuttons?  What do you think we'd need to thow into the chroot to get proper acpi events from users pressing powebuttons, and doing a "clean" shutdown on the terminals?  I tried installing hal, but that didn't seem to do it.  Any ideas?
<sbalneav> ogra: ping
<ogra> sbalneav, later please, distro meeting now (and another one afterwards)
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> k
<sbalneav> sry
<ogra> sbalneav, whats the status of ltsp-persistent-home ?
<sbalneav> I've tested the implementation, it appears to work fine.
<sbalneav> Pitti should do a code review
<sbalneav> Other than that, I think it's done.
<ogra> oki
<ogra> i wonder if moquist knows about gnome-reset
<sbalneav> Hmm, dunno
<ogra> http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rodrigo/2006/01/24/0 seems like what he wanted for resetting sessions
<sbalneav> Ooooh
<sbalneav> ooooooohhh
<sbalneav> oooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh
* sbalneav wants
<ogra> not sure how the status of it is ...
<ogra> but its in universe
* sbalneav installs
<sbalneav> I'll have to play around with it a bit.  I can already see the ui's a bit of a problem, but not anything major.
<sbalneav> it does seem to back up settings!
<ogra> nice
<sbalneav> brb, have to log out and log in to enable TCP for my xwindows :)
<stgraber> hi
<cbx33> ping sbalneav
<sbalneav> pong cbx33
<sbalneav> What's up?
<cbx33> sbalneav, docs ltsp
<cbx33> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP
<cbx33> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPMultiboot?highlight=%28Multiboot%29
<cbx33> worth adding to the handbook
<cbx33> i know you worked on the ltsp docs
<ogra> not the multiboot in this state please, its not complete
<cbx33> no no...this is slightly different
<ogra> and i'm not sure how official ppc will be supported in the future ... (or if i find the time to care for ppc ltsp if we drop support)
<cbx33> ogra, its not true multiboot
<cbx33> needs name changing
<cbx33> it's too enable PXe and boot off hdd too
<ogra> oh, i mixed it up with multiarch
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> ogra got time tonight for meeting?
<sbalneav> I think he's in several now :)
<sbalneav> Looks good, btw
<ogra> in 1-2h please, i need to recover a bit from a long day first
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> I'll do my best
<cbx33> sbalneav, did you wanna add them
<cbx33> or did you want me
<ogra> sbalneav, no, actually it seems i'm done now
<sbalneav> Sure, I can add them
<cbx33> ogra, great news about BETT eh?
<ogra> news ? beyond what we discussed in the meeting ?
<sbalneav> Youre done with meetings?  Are you taking a break break, or can we talk about power buttons for 5-10?
<ogra> for power buttons we'll need desktop communication again ...
<ogra> the power button needs to bring up the logout dialog
<ogra> i wanted to look into that, but seems like we'll need another communication layer for it ... also the shutdown option from the logout dialog needs to trigger the client
<cbx33> dbus?
<ogra> changing the acpi scripts to do *something* is trivial though
<sbalneav> Hmm, I'd just like something simple, like they log out, then press the power button and the machine just does a "shutdown -h now"
<ogra> thats easy
<sbalneav> Ah, where would I start looking?
<ogra> the important part is that the button needs either be ignored if someone is logged in or needs to communicate to the session
<ogra> look at the acpi scripts
<sbalneav> ok
<ogra> they are used as long as gnome-power-manager isnt installed
<willvdl> cbx33, you said yesterday in meeting that you "blogged" something. Where is your blog?
<highvoltage> willvdl: pong
<willvdl> woot
<willvdl> missed you at meeting
<willvdl> would really love your advice
<highvoltage> sorry, had another meeting at the same time I could not postpone :/
<cbx33> willvdl, hi
<willvdl> hey
<cbx33> http://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/
<highvoltage> willvdl: btw, about the docteam page on launchpad, can you try editing it again? it should work now, afaict
<cbx33> sorry
<cbx33> I'm on planet too
<willvdl> cbx33, found it :)
<cbx33> ;)
<willvdl> highvoltage, which one again?
<willvdl> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-doc?
<cbx33> darn it.....where is RichEd when you need him
<highvoltage> willvdl: yes
<willvdl> oh, you made me owner
<highvoltage> yep, I think that should do the job
<willvdl> LP's permissions are a bit restrictive at the mo :(
<highvoltage> if not, pest the people on #launchpad ;)
<willvdl> daily :] 
<cbx33> willvdl, howz it coming along
<willvdl> very hungover and had to nip out this afternoon
<willvdl> will put in a quick hour or two
<highvoltage> i think launchpad's restrictiveness to users is understandable, launchpad is still early alpha software and you wouldn't want to do something that can bring in security threats.
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> hungover....willvdl....surely not ;)
<cbx33> highvoltage, ++
<cbx33> ogra, ready when you are
<highvoltage> willvdl: I can understand how you feel, I got a bit sunburned today and probably feel similar to what you are feeling atm :)
<willvdl> yeah. I still like it though. the concept at least
<willvdl> you burn easily boet
<highvoltage> yeah
<willvdl> I mainly need to catch up on sleep
<highvoltage> I always need to :)
<highvoltage> will do that when I'm dead.
<cbx33> that's a good way of looking at things I suppose highvoltage
<cbx33> oh highvoltage btw where is edubuntugirl these days?
<willvdl> I just don't want death to come too early
<willvdl> he hogging her
<highvoltage> cbx33: ooh, good that you remind me
<highvoltage> cbx33: I moved over the weekend and need to get that pc up and running
<cbx33> please please ;)
<highvoltage> cbx33: will do tonight :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> several times wanted to leave messages for people ;)
<willvdl> cant ubou do that too?
<willvdl> ubotu, tell cbx33 that you might be able to
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about  tell cbx33 that you might be able to - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> ubotu tell willvdl no
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about  tell willvdl no - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<cbx33> ;)
<willvdl> highvoltage,can't really tell difference between "owner" and "administrator"
<willvdl> what I wanted was to add info on the "Details" section of th LP page
<cbx33> i think one can change details the other cant
<Burgwork> willvdl: only difference is that owner can delete list, I think
<cbx33> oh my mistake
<willvdl> seems so
* willvdl scratches head
<cbx33> am I still part of that list?
* cbx33 can't remember
<willvdl> yip
<cbx33> willvdl, got a sec?
<willvdl> yip
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BETTShow2007 - I need to start the new wiki page for edubuntu BETT2007
<cbx33> that was my proposal page
<cbx33> should I clear it?
<cbx33> as the proposal as there was rejected
<cbx33> and is no longer required
<cbx33> pign ogra
<willvdl> not wuite with you
<cbx33> well I wrote that ages ago....
<cbx33> to convince canonical to go to bet
<cbx33> BETT
<cbx33> but then rejected it
<cbx33> now though I need to write up a page for going to BETT as we are going
<cbx33> I wanted to use that page for it
<willvdl> oh, right. well if it serves no real purpose then sure, I would clean it up
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks dude
<willvdl> highvoltage, I was going through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration
<willvdl> looking at web, looking at wiki etc
<willvdl> and was wondering how do we seperate what info goes on the wiki and what goes on the drupal site?
<highvoltage> willvdl: what we've come to do, is to put static information on the site, and wiki pages that have evolved to a point where they won't really change any more
<highvoltage> willvdl: 'stable' pages, if you will
<highvoltage> willvdl: and all pages under development stays on wiki
<highvoltage> willvdl: it's not set in stone, and as documentation manager you are free of course to change it as you see fit
<willvdl> like the frontpage, contact info and links to important wiki pages?
<highvoltage> willvdl: something like that
<cbx33> highvoltage, shouoldn't those static pages go on the help wiki?
<highvoltage> willvdl: the frontpage isn't as effective as it can be, but it used to be in quite a bad shape a while back. cbx33 made some big improvements to it recently.
<willvdl> well, I have no intention of changing anything, just cleaning out the old or duplicated stuff
<highvoltage> cbx33: yes, the help wiki only came afterwards though
<willvdl> you mean help.u.c?
<cbx33> willvdl, yes
<cbx33> willvdl, it's a big job
<cbx33> I started it
<cbx33> but never got round to finishing
<willvdl> I think not. as I understand h.u.c is for help info and wiki.u.c is for planning, teams, LP spec pages etc
<cbx33> everyone.....the BETT show wiki page is up and awaiting comments, I'm goign to try to distill the ideas that were brought up in the meeting onto the page
<cbx33> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BETTShow2007
<cbx33> willvdl, do you have that wiki you wanted me to start planning handy
<cbx33> ping ogra
<willvdl> which one, the ESA?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> the planning
<cbx33> the page yo uwanted me to work on
<cbx33> that I han't yet :#
<cbx33> just got some catch up time
<willvdl> well, lets sue the old ESA one and we can always move and redirect or what ever later
<cbx33> ok
<willvdl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> got it
<willvdl> highvoltage, the Edubuntu Website Team could do something like the Ubuntu Wiki Team for the drupal site
<LaserJock> ah, just the man I was looking for
<cbx33> who?
<willvdl> meaning, get bugs and specs registered in LP for web thingies and assign to the team
<highvoltage> cbx33: I don't know, I'm a bit scared that it's me :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: yes, that sounds good
<cbx33> heheh
<willvdl> btw, still want to see your new tuxlab distro
<highvoltage> willvdl: riched mentioned a beer-up soon, I'll bring along a disc then
<willvdl> oooh. unfortunately Morgan is outa town
<willvdl> http://makeithappen.computeraid.org/
<highvoltage> i'm in hermanus next week too
<highvoltage> but i think we can get together at some point just after that, at least
* highvoltage wonders what happened to LaserJock 
<LaserJock> ?
<highvoltage> you said "21:05 < LaserJock> ah, just the man I was looking for
<highvoltage> "
<highvoltage> and kept us in suspense :)
<LaserJock> ah sorry, was looking for cbx33
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> sorry guys I should have said
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> no worries!
<willvdl> highvoltage,I was scared he was filling up a huge text entry buffer...
* LaserJock hugs #edubuntu
<willvdl> 3pg essay
<highvoltage> heh
<LaserJock> hah
<cbx33> willvdl, did you get a chance to look at the minutes yet?
<willvdl> on it at the mo
<cbx33> dud eyou rock
<cbx33> hey Amaranth
<Amaranth> hey
<willvdl> woot
<cbx33> doe anyone have access to the edubuntu.org site
<cbx33> where have my editing privs gone
<cbx33> I have noticed a spelling mistake and was going to correct it
<cbx33> highvoltage, you still have access?
<highvoltage> cbx33: yep
<highvoltage> cbx33: you should have too?
<cbx33> no
<cbx33> I can't edit anything
<cbx33> just view and track
<sbalneav> ogra: still awake?
<LaserJock> is Richard or willvdl around?
<willvdl> yip
<LaserJock> willvdl: I'm just reading over the meeting log
<willvdl> uhuh?
<LaserJock> perhaps some issues with help.u.c vs wiki.u.c vs. doc.u.c need to be cleared up
<cbx33> sbalneav, I'm hoping so
<cbx33> I hope to have a meeting with him later ;)
<willvdl> I think so
<LaserJock> help.u.c is where *all* user help/documentation should reside
<sbalneav> I just found the 3 commands needed to make ACPI power button shutoff work in thin clients.
<LaserJock> it holds both the shipped (static) docs in HTML and PDF and the help wiki
<cbx33> sbalneav, w00t
<cbx33> oh sbalneav that's what I wanted to ask
<cbx33> can we have a client reboot button for ldm?
<LaserJock> wiki.u.c is used for development collaboration/ spec planning/ etc.
<sbalneav> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ; mount -t proc proc /ptoc ; apt-get install acpi-support
<LaserJock> people are not supposed to be putting help docs on wiki.u.c
<sbalneav> reboot as opposed to power down?
<willvdl> LaserJock, that's how I understood it
<LaserJock> the move from wiki.u.c to help.u.c was a one time thing
<cbx33> sbalneav, yes
<cbx33> I have a few machines      thathave no access to pwoer button
<cbx33> I restart via WOL
<cbx33> start sorry
<sbalneav> Hmmm, that's just a ui thing.  It just needs to get added to ldm.
<sbalneav> ldm's in python.
<cbx33> yeh taht's what I thought
<willvdl> LaserJock, I guess a better explanation should go on DocTeam wiki page
<cbx33> oooh?
<cbx33> really?
<sbalneav> yeah
<cbx33> maybe I'll patch it
<cbx33> I know python
<sbalneav> so quit whinin' and get busy :)
<cbx33> sbalneav, what pacakge do I need to get ;)
<sbalneav> python-boy
<LaserJock> willvdl: edubuntu help docs should end up on help.u.c
* cbx33 pokes the angry bear
<LaserJock> willvdl: wiki or static
<sbalneav> Umm, it's part of a whole bunch of stuff.
<cbx33> sbalneav, you sure you don;t mind sorting those ltps docs....I can do it if it's easier....just tell me where you want it ;)
<sbalneav> Best bet would be start by playing around in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ldm, then mail a patch to ollie
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> thanks sbalneav
<sbalneav> No, I'll sort the docs out.
<cbx33> ok cool
<sbalneav> when's deadline for docs?
<sbalneav> do I have a couple of months?
<cbx33> sure....afaik
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> willvdl, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuSchoolAdvocacy#preview
<cbx33> hey pirast
<pirast> cbx33, hi!
<pirast> edubuntu works fine now .-)
<pirast> in the holidays, i will present it to the teacher who is responsible for the labs :-)
<cbx33> coool
<cbx33> sorry ogra gonna have to post pone
<willvdl> pirast, woot
<cbx33> willvdl, does that look ok?
<willvdl> yeah. ball is rolling ++
<willvdl> minutes are in
<willvdl> someday I'll sub-page and archive the minutes but it is really low priority right now...
<willvdl> You know what would be nice?
<cbx33> what?
<cbx33> anyone around....I have a vmware server and a vmware client....but the client won't finish booting
<cbx33> gets' to the last little bit then replaces the top left corner of the screen with a section of the progress bar
<cbx33> and never loads ldm
<cbx33> any ideas anyone?
<willvdl> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ has nice colour features
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> I know what you mean
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingLogs/Edubuntu_2006-12-13 doesn't
<cbx33> I thought of like a drag and drop minute maker
<willvdl> should be trivial to script it
<willvdl> ooooh
<willvdl> simple python script with a gui?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> so you load the minutes in one side
<cbx33> and drag the important ones to the other window
* willvdl slaps himself...focus will-san focus
<willvdl> load the log you mean?
<willvdl> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingLogs --> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Ausimage
<willvdl> ^^^ sounds like he wants to automate stuff
<willvdl> sigh, just can't keep up timezones with Americans and Australians...
<cbx33> indeed
<LaserJock> hmm, and I thought it was the British and South Africans that had the problem ;-)
<willvdl> we do. trying to keep up with both sides of the globe!
<willvdl> ok outa here. exhausted
<cbx33> ok
<willvdl> tomorrow is wiki cleanup day!
<cbx33> yay
<cbx33> I'll try to help out all I can
<willvdl> notice how http://www.edubuntu.org/ and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki try to be the same thing
<willvdl> but are different :)
<willvdl> I reckon EdubuntuWiki front page should just be "site map" of sorts.
#edubuntu 2006-12-15
<RichEd> hello
<jmantha> morning RichEd
* jmantha is LaserJock's evil twin
<RichEd> hi laserjock ... med's not kicked in yet today ?
<RichEd> or do the personailties swop at sunrise ?
<RichEd> jmantha: you winding down for xmas break yet ?
<jmantha> well
<jmantha> I leave for a about a 2 week vacation next Wednesday
<RichEd> nice :) going anywhere exciting ?
<jmantha> but as I don't take classes anymore it's not as big of a deal
<jmantha> just home to family
<jmantha> it's a 1000 mile drive in snowy conditions
<jmantha> which isn't so much fun
<jmantha> but it's nice to be "home"
<jmantha> well, I've got to go to bed
<jmantha> cya RichEd
<RichEd> g'night
<rockprincess> hello all!
<jsgotangco> hi
<rockprincess> on monday i'll find out whether or not i can start with my edubuntu project :D
<jsgotangco> oh that's great to hear
<jsgotangco> wish you the best!
<cbx33> yeh rock on rockprincess
<rockprincess> yeah, i think i'll need all fingers crossed heheh ;)
<rockprincess> i'm sooo excited...
<rockprincess> do you think a period from february/march til ende of june would be to short for testing?
<jsgotangco> its relative to what yo want to test
<rockprincess> hmm true!
<rockprincess> and how often on a weekly basis?!
<rockprincess> i assume the pupils will learn rather quick how things work :)
<RichEd> hi rockprincess , jsgotangco ...
<rockprincess> hey RichEd
<RichEd> I'm holding thumbs rockprincess :)
<jsgotangco> hello RichEd how are you doing? it's been a while
<rockprincess> thank you, RichEd :))))) I really appreciate it!
<RichEd> jsgotangco: I'm fine ... a bit exhausted at this point in the year, and looking forward to a break over Xmas with the family and the summer
<jsgotangco> that's nice to know, having a break is good, wish i can have one though
<RichEd> well Canonical shuts down between Xmas and New Year ... so it is a compulsory leave time ... not that I am complaining :)
<RichEd> 23 degrees & sunshine outside ... and 2 different oceans within 20km of my house ... w00t ... rock on
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi RichEd
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: greetz
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday :)
<rockprincess> hello Kamping_Kaiser!
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi rockprincess :D
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i just booked flights to LCA
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: great ... I need to do that today
<jsgotangco> wow so going to LCA
<jsgotangco> lucky people
<Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco, :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, sweet.
* jsgotangco wished for the good old days he can do stuff he wanted on foss
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: welcome to my world ;)
* Kamping_Kaiser will be broke when he gets home from the conf, so its not all good
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: im horribly tormented inside
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: hey, many people would cut off an arm to be working on foss full time, you're one of the lucky ones!
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: one day when you're rich you can work on your own projects again :)
<jsgotangco> heh i wish that's the situation
<highvoltage> gtg, bbl
* Kamping_Kaiser has to organise shots in the next week. thats going to be a pain :/
<jsgotangco> since we couldn't seem to get a model of sorts
<jsgotangco> the project is crumbling apart
<jsgotangco> ah
<Kamping_Kaiser> wb
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: shots ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i might be going to PNG next year... *might*, but because of all the stuff happening between now and next march, i need to organise stuff now
<Kamping_Kaiser> so i need imunisation against stuff
<RichEd> PNG ? that's an image format ... what else ? :)
<jsgotangco> Papua New Guinea
<Kamping_Kaiser> ^^
<Kamping_Kaiser> sorry :/ i keep forgetting
<jsgotangco> as long as you don't get caught in a coup or something heh
<Kamping_Kaiser> dont joke :/ its a volotile place :/ (well, you can joke, i'll just get unnerved :P)
<jsgotangco> my country had 9 coups in the 80s
<RichEd> make sure you don't lose your head :) figuratively and literally
<Kamping_Kaiser> jsgotangco, thailand?
<jsgotangco> philippines
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, thats right
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i'm still not sure of the details of the trip... or i'd tell you more about it
<Kamping_Kaiser> s/.../,
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=DARLEY+RD,+RANDWICK,+new+south+wales,+australia&sll=-35.050769,138.86296&sspn=0.011277,0.020084&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=-33.906112,151.236763&spn=0.011433,0.027122&t=h&om=1 <- (i *think*) the uni from the air. its between darley rd, king st and govett ln
<Kamping_Kaiser> bbl (~30 min).
<willvdl> hey all
<Kamping_Kaiser> allo
<cbx33> hey ogra
<cbx33> sorry about yesterday dude
<ogra> cbx33, no need to feel soory for things that are my fault :P
<ogra> *sorry
<cbx33> ogra: still there?
<cbx33> I have 30 mins free now if you have time for a meeting
<willvdl> check under the bed
<ogra> cbx33, i have a meeting ahead ... how about in 1-2h ?
<cbx33> probably
* ogra wonders where his answer to cbx33's mail on edubuntu-devel went
<RichEd> ping ogra
<ogra> RichEd, pong
<cbx33> ogra: hmmm
<cbx33> ogra: what was your answer?
<ogra> remove splash and quiet from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<cbx33> excellent
<cbx33> bbl
* Kamping_Kaiser hopes hes not competeing with ogra to answer questions
<RichEd> rodarvus: finishing off with ogra ... will ping you in 15 mins
<cbx33> ogra: dude I'm ready when you are
<cbx33> ogra: I have about an hour now
<willvdl> Folks, see y'all Monday!
<willvdl> I need weekend
<cbx33> bye willvdl
<cbx33> thatnks for all the help
<willvdl> thank you!
<willvdl> it's getting exciting
<willvdl> woot
<cbx33> hello anyone there?
<bddebian> Heya
<bddebian> Hi cbx33
<ogra> cbx33, i'm back now
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey hey
<cbx33> ogra: i could be going home at any moment
<cbx33> but we can start ;)
<ogra> well, we can do it tomorrow as well if you are online ...
<cbx33> I will be at sometime I'm sure
<cbx33> we we're an awful pair
<ogra> then go home and enjoy your weekend ;)
<cbx33> pah
<ogra> i'll be around during the day
* cbx33 has to do tax return
<cbx33> ok
<sbalneav> ogra: hey, you said acpi-support's in minimal?
<sbalneav> aptitude show ubuntu-minimal | grep acpi
<sbalneav> nooope
<cbx33> ping ogra
<cbx33> ping sbalneav
<sbalneav> cbx33: pong cbx33
<sbalneav> ICMP ECHO REPLY
<cbx33> sbalneav, I DID IT
<cbx33> I added the reboot button
<sbalneav> Hey!
<sbalneav> Cool
<cbx33> needs an extra png
<cbx33> and a little diff to the gtk file
<sbalneav> How many lines of code did that end up being?
<cbx33> how should I send it to ogra?
<cbx33> um.... about 20
<cbx33> just copied and modified the one for the shutdown button
<cbx33> at the moment I have a blue reboot button
<cbx33> and a red shutdown button
<cbx33> pretty spiffy eh?
<sbalneav> Zoomy
<cbx33> heheh
<sbalneav> Between that, and the power button ACPI thing I worked up yesterday, shutdown's a snap :)
<cbx33> yup
<highvoltage> hey cbx33
<cbx33> hey highvoltage
<cbx33> hi edubuntugirl
<edubuntugirl> salut, cbx33!
<cbx33> ;)
<juliux> hi highvoltage cbx33
<cbx33> hey juliux
<highvoltage> hey jul	
<highvoltage> htrmph
<highvoltage> hey juliux
<highvoltage> sorry, IRC'ing from the back of my car :)
<cbx33> heheheh
<highvoltage> friend's gf is driving
<highvoltage> (quite nerv wrecking)
<cbx33> hahah
<cbx33> 60mph round corners?
<juliux> highvoltage, greetings to the car;)
<juliux> and to the driver;)
<highvoltage> cbx33: well, we qwork R KM/H RHTHIS SIDE OF THE WORLD :)
<highvoltage> JUL	:)
<cbx33> hehe
<highvoltage> oops, dark here :)
<highvoltage> caps was accidental :)
<highvoltage> going around a mountain pass right now, and she has trouble seeing in the dark some times :-O
<cbx33> least she's not me
<cbx33> she'd be falling asleep
<cbx33> sbalneav, so how should I best present this to ogra?
<highvoltage> heh
<sbalneav> diff -Naur | mail -s "I am teh hakur" ogra@ubuntu.com
<highvoltage> I would drive, but I don't have a drivers license, and this time of the year there's lots of road blocks and traffic cops on the road.
<sbalneav> highvoltage: You don't have a license?
<cbx33> heheheh
<cbx33> ok
<highvoltage> sbalneav: nope :(
<siezer> !seen moly
<ubotu> I haven't seen moly recently
<cbx33> sbalneav, I'm adding tooltips to the buttons too
<cbx33> currently we don;t have those
<cbx33> usability we should I suppose
<sbalneav> Sure
<cbx33> sbalneav, w00t done it
<highvoltage> woops, lost my connection around the mountain there
<highvoltage> screen and irssi ++
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> sbalneav, you still around?
<cbx33> do you know where icons for the gnome shutdown window are stored?
<cbx33> nevermind i got em
<cbx33> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
<highvoltage> hi mr la	
<highvoltage> hi mr LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi
#edubuntu 2006-12-16
<kambei> Hi.
<kambei> I have several machines and I would like to authenticate user logins and possibly host home directories off of one machine.
<kambei> What should I be reading and/or searching for?
<kambei> By the way, this is not for an Edubuntu system, but I was pointed in this direction for assistance.
<pipedream> openldap for auth
<pipedream> home dirs depend: if you have windows clients included in the batch, use samba
<pipedream> I like NFS
<ajmitch> hi ogra
<cbx33> ping ping ping ogra
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> ping RichEd-1
<cbx33> ogra, I'm here for next hour at least so meeting whenever you want it
<stgraber> morning
<cbx33> ogra, ping
<cbx33> :p
* stgraber is upgrading his LAN server to Edgy, if he's really lucky it will work out of the box and reboot correctly :) (but doesn't think so)
<cbx33> heheh
<stgraber> A backup is already ready for the reinstall anyway :)
<stgraber> the good point is that the server is in the room next to mine and not at 200km like my others one are :)
<stgraber> Ok, rebooting if I'm lucky I'll be back in a minute :)
<stgraber> well, I'm lucky :)
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
#edubuntu 2006-12-17
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.bantracker.stats True
<Seveas> RichEd-1, I finally got around to implementing it :)
<mhz> hi all!
<LaserJock> mhz!
<bddebian> Heya mhz
<mhz> LaserJock: !!!
<mhz> bddebian: too long, it seems
<bddebian> Aye :)
* mhz is happy to still see friendly faces around here
* mhz has been working hard, and with no internet at home, so... IRC gets to be almost last priority, unfortunately. I hardly have time to even help the people in Chile or LAm
<mhz> the good news is we have a new Ubuntu Member for Chile, mruiz
<mhz> so, we're 2 now
<mhz> :D
<LaserJock> \o/
<bddebian> Nice :)
<mhz> And I recently had the chance to talk at a little conference on FLOSS for Education
<mhz> and I WAS TOTALLY happy to see a poor school running Edubuntu on their 30 PCs LAB
<mhz> FLOSS has become #1 rule, said the Principal
<mhz> so, many of my friends (a local LUG) have been training teachers, students, secretaries, etc
<mhz> they'll provide videos on students/teachers working on that Edubuntu Lab
<mhz> oops, gotta reboot and get back
<nixternal> whoa, people talk in here?
<bddebian> hehe
<nixternal> ahh yes, he said mruiz from chile..i helped them with their website
<mhz> re
<stgraber> I'm trying to find a way to have a swiss-french keyboard on X on a thin client, I now how to set the XKBMODEL to "ch" but I need to put a XKBVARIANT to "fr", how can I do that ?
<stgraber> I didn't see any XKBVARIANT variable for the lts.conf file
<cbx33> ping ogra
#edubuntu 2007-12-10
<nibl> My pxe client boots, but cannot find the file system...
<nibl> I get errors like:
<nibl> "Mounting /rofs on /root/rofs failed: Invalid argument"
<nibl> This is a fresh 7.10 install
<nibl> Are there any configs I need to change?
<topjbird> hello
<nibl> anybody out there who can help?
<topjbird> I was wondering the same thing
<topjbird> hi nibl
<nibl> I'm new to unbuntu and for the past day I cannot get any help on irc or the mailing list :-(
<topjbird> sorry to hear that
<topjbird> This is actually my first time too
<nibl> there are no forums you can search , afaik
<topjbird> I am new to this as well
<topjbird> what is your problem
<nibl> my client boots but cannot find the root file system
<nibl> get mount errors
<topjbird> that's over my head
<topjbird> sorry'
<topjbird> lemme get tghis straight
<topjbird> how many machines you have
<nibl> i'm just trying one at a time
<topjbird> so you have a server and 1 client?
<nibl> I tried two differents machines, same errors
<nibl> yes
<topjbird> ok
<topjbird> what kind of error are you getting
<nibl> e.g. "Mounting /rofs on /root/rofs failed: Invalid argument"
<nibl> so i guess it cannot find the root fs
<nibl> googling hasn't delivered many results so far, nothing I found helpful
<topjbird> http://www.mail-archive.com/edubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com/msg02564.html
<topjbird> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2007-August/002314.html
<topjbird> check these 2 out
<topjbird> see if either helps you
<nibl> thanks, i read the first post already. it's somebody with more than one lab, smthg complex
<nibl> the 2nd post has no answer, i saw that one too
<topjbird> one sec
<topjbird> nibl
<topjbird> I know a guy online
<topjbird> who would prolly help you
<topjbird> really nice guy
<topjbird> but you'd have to get him in the morning
<topjbird> if you're interested
<topjbird> u still there?
<nibl> yes, i was just searching the archives
<nibl> downloaded the entire archives, am searching in text editor
<topjbird> ok
<topjbird> the only way I know where you can find him right now
<topjbird> I mean lately
<topjbird> is this link
<topjbird> http://redomen.homedns.org:8080/KaliWeb.html
<topjbird> register a login name
<topjbird> it'as free
<topjbird> it's a chat server he made for an old time gaming network called kali
<topjbird> I'm on there now
<topjbird> looking for him but he ain't there
<topjbird> anyways
<topjbird> when you go theere
<topjbird> look for a guy named RedOmen
<topjbird> he's very knowlegable with Linux
<topjbird> he uses Debian
<topjbird> but I'm sure he could help you
<nibl> ok, thanks. will do.
<topjbird> best time to get him is early in the morning
<nibl> i think this problem is specific to edubuntu and ltsp
<topjbird> like 7am eastern
<nibl> what timezone?
<nibl> ok
<topjbird> u.s.
<topjbird> eastern standard
<topjbird> just log on to that web based chat server and look for him
<topjbird> tell him topjbird said he might be able to help you
<nibl> thanks for the tip
<nibl>  i'll go back to searching list archives for now
<topjbird> who knows I might even meet ya there
<topjbird> I need some help myself
<topjbird> =)
<nibl> i hope on monday more folks will be online
<topjbird> I'm building this edubuntu machine
<nibl> maybe a lot are teachers, well, obviously
<topjbird> for an underpriveleged little 5 yeasr girl
<nibl> why not use a standalone live CD?
<topjbird> desktop is up and running
<topjbird> no I've got the system up and running
<topjbird> just trying to get a few things
<nibl> so what's the prob?
<topjbird> just some fine touches
<topjbird> well
<topjbird> in the edubuntu page
<topjbird> it shows this graphical desktop
<topjbird> that's like cartoonish
<topjbird> specifically made for a small child to navigate through the system
<topjbird> can't seem to get it
<topjbird> lemme see if I can show you what I'm talkin about
<topjbird> if you have a sec
<nibl> have a look, i#ll be back in 5 mins
<topjbird> ok cool
<topjbird> http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
<topjbird> there in that first paragraph
<topjbird> Edubuntu also provides three different theme setups, 'young', for younger users, 'plain' for a clean desktop setup, and 'default', which is a general purpose theme setup.
<topjbird> and you see that middle picture with the 3 kids
<topjbird> I wanna try and load that theme
<topjbird> can't find out how
<nibl> ok, so it's a desktop theme?
<topjbird> yea
<topjbird> I don't see it anywheres
<nibl> you mean it's not preinstalled, or you tried and the package doesn't show?
<topjbird> well I don't see it as preinstalled
<topjbird> and I can't even seem to find the package
<topjbird> can't find the package to install
<nibl> true, i don't have it either
<topjbird> tried finding it but no luck
<topjbird> maybe it's an older theme with the previuous edubuntu?
<topjbird> they just didn't bother to take it off that website
<nibl> yes, i searched on Gnome themes, no luck
<nibl> i guess it may merit emailing the edubuntu artwork developer
<topjbird> whats his email
<topjbird> =)
<topjbird> oops his/her
<topjbird> =)
<nibl> look on the edubuntu support page
<nibl> they are listed below the irc and lists
<topjbird> ok
<topjbird> btw nibl
<topjbird> where are you
<topjbird> if ya don't mind me askin'
<nibl> germany
<topjbird> excellent
<topjbird> =)
<topjbird> I'm in Pennsylvania, USA
<topjbird> well it was nice meeting you nibl
<topjbird> I'm gonna go get some chow
<topjbird> hope to see ya around soon
<nibl> likewise, i'll return to the edubuntu archives now
<nibl> bye
<topjbird> and when I get there, maybe you can help me with the client server thing'
<topjbird> =)
<topjbird> take care bud
<Nurionn> anyone an idea, why the edubuntu server increases its memory-usage by 1.5gb in 2 days (without any client startet)?
<bibekshrestha> 7.10 local dev not working, any debugging tips?
<johnny> there is a registered bug on that
<johnny> there are some hints in there
<bibekshrestha> oh any hints where i can see the bug? im new at this
<johnny> bugs.launchpad.net
<bibekshrestha> bugzilla or sth?
<bibekshrestha> thanks lemme have a look
<johnny> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/160420
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160420 in ltsp "Local devices don't work because an X11 authentication problem" [Undecided,New]
<bibekshrestha> johnny, thanks, got the usb working,
<bibekshrestha> strange though, it doesnot show safely remove, is that normal?
<johnny> i noticed that too
<johnny> that's on my todo list
<johnny> it should prolly be filed as a seperate bug
<bibekshrestha> oh, alright then, atleast i have the device working
<me4u> hello
<me4u> anyboidy around?
<das-t> only partially ;-)
<me4u> hi das-t
<me4u> sorry went to ubuntu channel
<me4u> I am trying to find out how to load this theme for this little girl
<me4u> http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
<me4u> wanna put that "young" theme
<me4u> in that link
<me4u> hi ikonia
<me4u> 'noone here
<me4u> would anyone knoiw how to load the "young" theme for edubuntu from this link
<me4u> http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
<das-t> sorry, i don't  and don#t have the time to look right now
<tuff> hello. can someone tell me why is this line "env['DISPLAY'] = 'localhost:10.0'" in /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter ?
<trboyden> Hi All, new edubuntu user here. Trying to setup netboot client for LTSP. Able to get client to load vmlinuz and initrd.img, get Ready. message but then client just sits at blicking cursor. Not sure what/how to troubleshoot from here?
<trboyden> Using Edubuntu 7.10
<bddebian> Heya
<stgraber> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hi stgraber
<scrapbunny> i am trying to switch my computer lab from xp to edubuntu 7.10 thin clients. I got a dell poweredge 1750 donated as a server  an have set up 20 gx 110's as clients. i am running into a lot of issues with the server cpu's maxing to 100% with most of the programs I want to use.  any advise on how to make edubuntu work for me? the gx110's only have 128 memory so running standalone edubuntu is not an option
<lns> Are the AMD64 & i386 server kernels built with the exact same hardware support in Gutsy?
<Burgundavia> lns: I don't know of any arch specific drivers that apply to x86/amd64
<Burgundavia> what specific piece of hardware are you worried about?
<lns> Burgundavia, it's (they) are HP Proliant ML370 G5 servers
<lns> I had issues booting the desktop version of Dapper a while back - it wouldn't even boot the liveCD
<lns> but the AMD64 version booted fine
<Burgundavia> I would try the hardy alpha live cds
<Burgundavia> and if they don't work, make certain you report bugs and keep on top of them
<lns> Burgundavia, I'd love to be a beta tester but these sites are for elementary school labs, and the students need reliable service
<Burgundavia> lns: you can use a livecd or dual boot, test on the weekends
<lns> Burgundavia, that doesn't exactly give me insight as to whether hardware drivers are defined the same in i386/AMD64 archs for Gutsy ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> they are almost definately not, if your including the non-free modules in your thinking
<lns> Kamping_Kaiser, possibly...
<lns> can you tell me if there's a way to boot the livecd via server kernel? I know that was a big thing for getting it up and going when i initially installed my other lab server.
<lns> that was the only kernel that would recognize my 1GB Ethernet chip
<Kamping_Kaiser> imo thats a bug.
<lns> also, does the i386 kernel give support for PAE? My servers have 8GB ram
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure. i havent dealt with any new ubuntu release
<Goosemoose> trying to install edubuntu from preseed on network, client reboots to a black screen after install though. any ideas?
<lns> Goosemoose, at what point is it a black screen?
<Goosemoose> after the install completes
<Goosemoose> it reboots
<Goosemoose> says loading grub
<Goosemoose> then black
<Goosemoose> manual install goes fine
<lns> Goosemoose, sounds like a bootsplash/framebuffer issue perhaps? I'm not sure
<lns> does it eventually get to a login screen, or is there hdd activity during the blank screen?
<Goosemoose> lns, doesn't go anywhere
<Goosemoose> just sites there
<Goosemoose> dont have a hdd led on this
<kgoetz> Goosemoose: edit out 'splash' from the grub menu and then boot the client
<Goosemoose> i cant access a terminal to do that
<Goosemoose> i get the black screen immediately
<Goosemoose> is there something i can hit when it says loading grub?
<kgoetz> escape
<lns> ;)
<kgoetz> :)
<Goosemoose> fine :)
<kgoetz> then it gives you the grub menu. then you press 'e' to edit, and 'enter' to "
<kgoetz> save" the change for the coming boot
<Goosemoose> ok there is no splash i can see
<Goosemoose> there:
<Goosemoose> root (hd0,0)
<Goosemoose> kernel /boot/vmlinux-2.6.22-14........
<lns> Goosemoose, append "nosplash" to the end of the kernel parms after hitting E
<Goosemoose> initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22........
<Goosemoose> oh append it
<Goosemoose> ok
<lns> if "splash" isn't there
<Goosemoose> whats the quiet command for (you can tell all my linux experience has been with remove web servers(
<kgoetz> quiet?
<Goosemoose> rebooting
<Goosemoose> yeah that was the last line
<Goosemoose> before i added no spalsh
<kgoetz> it means theres less output
<Goosemoose> ok no splash didnt change anything
<kgoetz> so the splash screens dont havce useful text printed on them ;)
<kgoetz> "nosplash" or "no splash"? :)
<Goosemoose> nosplash
<Goosemoose> still have a black screen
<kgoetz> try booting "single" mode
<Goosemoose> ok
<lns> i wonder if the bootloader is b0rked
<lns> if you don't see the splash screen at all
<lns> just grub --> blank
<lns> nosplash might be ineffective
<Goosemoose> ive redone this image multiple times
<Goosemoose> loading recovery mode
<Goosemoose> ok got a login prompt
<lns> hmm ok
<lns> in single user mode?
<Goosemoose> second grub option was called recovery mode
<lns> ah
<Goosemoose> im assuming thats single user like on a mac
<lns> iirc
<lns> Goosemoose, "redone this image multiple times" meaning what? format/re-install from cd a bunch of times?
<Goosemoose> so where do i look to figure out why i get the black screen? the manual install works fine
<Goosemoose> so it has to have something to do with installing via preseed file
<kgoetz> Goosemoose: can you run `grep kernel /boot/grub/menu.lst`
<lns> Ahh..i read "preseed" as "pressed" initially
<kgoetz> paste us the twothree lines you should get from it
<lns> thought you ordered an edubuntu cd pressed ;)
 * Flare183 is away: Gone away for now.
 * kgoetz is annoyed: Doesnt like Spamming Aways
 * lns adds to the meaningless /me comments for the sole sake of doing so
<kgoetz> hehe
<Goosemoose> sorry, back
<kgoetz> wb
<Goosemoose> ok lets see
<Goosemoose> non commented out comments
<Goosemoose> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-generic root=UUID=038a2561-e3fc then runs off screen
<Goosemoose> oh nvm it wrap
<Goosemoose> so long root=UUID then 'ro quiet splash'
<Goosemoose> thats the main one
<Goosemoose> next is the recovery mod
<Goosemoose> mode
<Goosemoose> guess ill type out whole thing for main, thats what you need right kgoetz?
<Goosemoose> kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-generic root=UUID=038a2561-e3fc-4be6-938-bb2df55e1a3b ro quiet splash
<kgoetz> dont need the root=, need everything else
<kgoetz> so both are 'quiet splash'?
<Goosemoose> the recover mode
<Goosemoose> end ro single
<Goosemoose> thats what i booted into now
<kgoetz> Goosemoose: right. edit /boot/grub/menu.lst and remove "quiet splash" from the first one
<Goosemoose> ok
<Goosemoose> rebooting
<kgoetz> gl
<Goosemoose> worked now
<Goosemoose> sooo, what the heck
<kgoetz> now try addin 'quiet' back in and rebooting it .
<Goosemoose> why the quiet splash preveting boot?
<Goosemoose> ok
<kgoetz> i suspect the inital 'its the splash' is correct :\
<kgoetz> dont know.
<Goosemoose> started
<Goosemoose> ok, very strange
<Goosemoose> i tried both edubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop from the preseed file too
<Goosemoose> looks like 'splash' is preventing the boot
<kgoetz> not sure, might be a bug, might be pebkac, but i dont know how to find otu :)
<kgoetz> bbs
<Goosemoose> hmm
<lns> could be the vid card can't handle framebuffer requests/whatever video mode it's requesting?
<lns> did you boot this on the same machine you installed it on (i.e. no hdd xfer)
#edubuntu 2007-12-11
<Goosemoose> lns it works great if i installed manually
<Goosemoose> yes, same machine
<Goosemoose> although manual was off the edubuntu cd
<kgoetz> try setting the vga=775 (?) mode and see if it helps. check that mode, i doubt its the correct one ;)
<Goosemoose> preseed is from the netboot.tar.gz on the ubuntu site
<Goosemoose> kgoetz, at the end of the grub line?
<kgoetz> yeah.
<kgoetz> Goosemoose: eg: /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22 root=/dev/sda1 vga=791 splash=silent ro initrd ... (from google)
<Goosemoose> ok
<kgoetz> *check the vga= mode*
<Goosemoose> ill be back in a bit
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: hey
<jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia
<jsgotangco> hows it going
<Burgundavia> not bad
<Burgundavia> almost finished this semester of college
<jsgotangco> ahh good to hear, i've been pretty busy lately :/
<Burgundavia> wondering when schooltool will be good enough to get rid of this webadvisor crap my college uses
<Burgundavia> RL can take time, no?
<Burgundavia> how is your kid?
<JordanC> Heh
<jsgotangco> sorry was out
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: its alright now, stuff has been fixed
<scorpfromhell> anybody here tried LTSP setup of Gutsy?
<scorpfromhell> !ircd
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ircd - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<ari_stress> evening all
<bddebian> Heya
<ClaUbuntu> Are there italian people that know about ltsp ?
<Petaris> Hi all
<Petaris> I have an amd64 server and i386 clients and I need the xserver-xorg-video-amd package for the client video, how can I get it?
<Petaris> do I just chroot into the client enviornment?
<Petaris> then do and apt-get?
<Petaris> also, does anyone know if there is support for using the AMD Geodes onboard AES for the connection crypto?
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> I did that and it says its already installed
<Petaris> but when I specify the "amd" driver x doesn't start
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ping
<scorpfromhell> I have multiple m/c with edubuntu in ws mode ... how can I administer them all via a single Edubuntu LTSP admin?
<edux> hi, anyone here?
<edux> i need some advice
<edux> does anyone knows if there is an ubuntu package for timetablin?
<edux> timetable managment?
<somerville32> !find timetable
<ubotu> Package/file timetable does not exist in gutsy
<edux> cause schooltool wasnot ported tu gutsy
<edux> thanks
#edubuntu 2007-12-12
<ari_stress> morning all :D
<LaserJock> hi
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: have you got any pre-gutsy machines around?
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: nope, all my machines are running gutsy at the moment
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: what do you need?
<Burgundavia> just wanted to see why gnome-screensaver is going nuts on my machines
<Burgundavia> machine, rather
<methods> apt-get install edubuntu-desktop ?
<Burgundavia> methods: yes?
<methods> is that righ t?
<Burgundavia> to install the basic desktop, yes
<Burgundavia> however, to get the LTSP server, you will to instlal it as well
<methods> i thought there was a edubuntu server ?
<methods> is there any companies installing these in government schools ?
<LaserJock> yeah, although I don't know any specifics
<Burgundavia> for the latter, I have no idea off the top of my head
<Burgundavia> there is an Edubutu server
<LaserJock> RichEd: you here?
<RichEd> hi LaserJock
<somerville32> :]
<somerville32> RichEd, Did you get to review that anymore with highvoltage?
<LaserJock> RichEd: you had a chance to read edubuntu-users today?
<RichEd> & somerville32 }:-)
<RichEd> somerville32: going through it today for the meeting this evening
<RichEd> LaserJock: not yet ... just starting my day
<LaserJock> RichEd: yeah, you might want to, very interesting
<RichEd> LaserJock: just did :(
<somerville32> :(
<RichEd> LaserJock: see latest posts ... they say "prollems ... wot prollems ... worked for me"
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> so we're at 3 "works for me" and 4 "I can't believe you released this crap"
<RichEd> so (tech wise) it comes back to the point you raised ... many many h/w combinations needing testing
<LaserJock> here's one of the things
<RichEd> and doc wise ... we need to address
<RichEd> and helper wise ... we've started a process
<LaserJock> basically it comes down to this, if you want *your* machines supported you have to test the development release
<LaserJock> we simply can't test all hardware
<LaserJock> so we need to have a good way for people to test the development version *before* it gets released
<RichEd> so ... we need to add to the how you can help ... a testing process, with an easy way to file bugs
<LaserJock> giving some sort of "by in" by explicitly saying "look, your'e gonna have a way better experience if you help us help you"
<LaserJock> of course we again have to have the developer power to back it up
<pmvalente_> hello as anyone can help me with this problem
<pmvalente_> my thin clients doens't boot it appears this message
<pmvalente_> Busybox v1.1.3 (Debian 1:1.1.3-5ubuntu7) Bulit-in Shell (ash) enter help.for a list of commands. (initramfs)
<pmvalente_> does anyone know hpw tp fix this problem, it seems that is on server but what?
<RichEd> pmvalente_: hi ... sorry was it you in ubuntu-education this morning ?
<RichEd> (my machine overheated and rebooted)
<RichEd> regarding your problem above, wait for ogra to appear (he has just travelled back from Spain) or ask in #ltsp later today when the USA is awake
<pmvalente_> ok tks
<RichEd> hi ogra ... back safe & sound ?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> even though the flights i had sometimes made me dounbt i would
<ogra> *doubt
<ogra> RichEd, but i filled my boring travel time with fun programming: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LightBrowser/
<ogra> (fully functional as browser, inherits all plugins from firefox and limits itself to no tabs and single window)
<mcfloppy_> ogra can u help me?
<RichEd> cool ... sorry stepped out to make a tea
<RichEd> ogra; are you up for the meeting tonight ? or are you worn out ?
<ogra> RichEd, i'm fine
<stgraber> ogra: using python mozembed ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> plain XUL
<stgraber> oh, and using grandparadiso ?
<ogra> xulrunner, right
<ogra> the original code is called mybrowser ()it does all eth browser stuff but has zero features
<stgraber> how long to open it on the classmate ?
<ogra> i took that and added features to make ait a real browser
<ogra> didnt try it on the classmate, but it only eats about 20% of the ram ff takes
<ogra> given that granparadiso starts nearly instantly on the classmate i`d assume the same from it
<stgraber> cool
<RichEd> highvoltage: you around boet ?
<RichEd> when does the school year start for Northern hemisphere ? september ?
<ogra> august/sept, depending on the country in europe at least
<graystatic> I installed edubuntu server on a machine and rebooted it
<joebaker> When is the meeting today?
<graystatic> it shows the loading bar then goes black
<joebaker> Maybe the resolution is too high for the monitor.  Try putting a different monitor on the machine.
<joebaker> Another thing you could try graystatic is Ctrl-(Alt-minus key)
<joebaker> CTRL - ALT - MINUS
<graystatic> what does that do
<graystatic> well I'm trying a different monitor right now
<joebaker> X Windows has this little trick that lets you cycle through different screen resolutions this way.  Plus goes the other way.
<graystatic> oh
<joebaker> The autodetection routines consider your video card and the information about your monitor.
<joebaker> If your computer booted without the monitor plugged in the routines may not have been able to detect the
<joebaker> acceptable resolutions for your monitor.  At least this is the way I think this works.  Via observation is how I learned.
<joebaker> Does Edubuntu LTSP Gutsy come with support for Mac thin clients now?
<graystatic> i tried a different monitor and it didn't work
<graystatic> do i push ctl+alt+ - after it boots or while it is booting
<joebaker> Black Screen hey?
<joebaker> Push the key combination once you finally get to the black screen.
<joebaker> Are these modern monitors?
<joebaker> 1280x1024 resolution capeable?
<joebaker> I could be barking up the wrong tree.
<graystatic> ok I pushed the combination and nothing happened
<graystatic> these are mondern monitors flatscreens and I almost positive they can do 1280 x 1024
<joebaker> Great.  This probably isn't the problem then.
<graystatic> is there a way to start it in safe graphics mode
<graystatic> or something
<joebaker> In lts.conf  you could specify the resolution for this workstation.
<joebaker> You could also specify the xserver to be VESA.
<graystatic> how would I edit that stuff when I can't get it to boot
<graystatic> or can't see it once it does
<joebaker> Sometimes when I had particularly difficult combinations I'd create a special xorg.conf file.
<joebaker> Is this an LTSP thin client you are having problems with or just a simple installation of Edubuntu?
<graystatic> it is a server
<joebaker> CTRL - ALT - F1  Would get you to a text only console on the server.
<graystatic> that worked
<graystatic> now once I have that can I start x windows in a safe graphics mode
<graystatic> I know when I had ubuntu installed on it that it would work in safe graphics mode
<joebaker> graystatic:  Sorry, I'm going to have to get back to a proposal I'm working on.  You might google for something called dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg.  This would give you the ability to reconfigure the xserver.
<joebaker> Wait, you said you installed the server version.
<joebaker> That might not even have XWindows loaded by default.
<graystatic> oh ok
<graystatic> thanks for the help
<joebaker> Why is it so quiet in this channel.  Maybe everybody is in the Edubuntu meeting talked about at the banner of this channel.
<joebaker> Servers sometimes don't run Xwindows to improve performance.
<graystatic> ok
<joebaker> Where are you located?
<joebaker> I'm in Burlington, Wisconsin.
<joebaker> If you don't mind me asking.
<graystatic> but I think is does come loaded with x windows
<RichEd> joebaker: the meeting is at 20h00 UTC
<graystatic> because it goes black on startup
<joebaker> Good Luck!
<graystatic> if it wasn't trying to load xwindows I think it would just give be text
<RichEd> ping highvoltage
<agente87> hello!
<agente87> does anybody know how to mount or just make recognize a local hard disk in a thin client?Â¿
<ogra> if its partitioned it should just show up
<agente87> when i start a program like gparted as a root, it only shows me the server partitions, and hard drives, but not the local hard drive in the thin client
<ogra> indeed ...
<ogra> you could set SCREEN_02=shell in lts.conf and partition them with cfdisk then
<agente87> i will try thank you
<das-t> once we are there ... i am trying quite a few thin clients at the moment. all old hardware. all start up with a resolution of 800, even though at least some should support 1024. do i need to put that into the lst.conf?
<das-t> i suppose so, will try. maybe someone can confirm / deny.
<ogra> das-t, well, it should autodetect what the monitor is capable of
<bddebian> Heya
<ogra> some older monitors are rather bad at reporting the right values though... there X_MODE_0 help
<RichEd> hi all ... for those who are interested in volunteering or the process of volunteer uptake:
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/VolunteerUptakeProcess
<RichEd> ^ we'll discuss that at the meeting tonight
<RichEd> comments or sensible edits welcome
 * RichEd out for a bit ... back for edubuntu meeting
<das-t> ok, thank you ogra
<sigma> anyone know where i can find a good 1 page in depth description of edubuntu desktop and server edition?
<das-t> what especially are you looking for?
<sigma> just something that describes what it is and lists its major features
<das-t> something like this? http://www.edubuntu.org/UsingEdubuntu
<sigma> thats perfect! do similar pages exist for ubuntu, kubuntu and ubuntu server?
<das-t> i don't know
<das-t> (i just started working with edubuntu)
<sigma> ah i see
<sigma> so tell me how hard is it to set up a basic classroom lab?
<das-t> i personally am just doing my first steps. to get a first quick result for yourself is very easy. we installed the beast and after finding a correct boot cdrom (emulating a pxe nic) the client booted right away.
<das-t> though i still need quite a bit fine tuning, but the pain of getting started is not very heavy. ,-)))
<LaserJock> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
<RichEd> sigma: look at the edubuntu cookbook / handbook ... let me get the links
<LaserJock> RichEd: we perhaps have an issue with the Handbook. the only place the current handbook exists is on the user's computer
<LaserJock> RichEd: we don't actually have a copy online
<RichEd> LaserJock: fireman MrEd has put out the flame (with some earlier help) ... did you check back at the list
<RichEd> LaserJock: I thought I saw a copy 2 days ago ? lemme check
<LaserJock> RichEd: hehe yes, if only we could squash your verbosity with ogra's pithiness ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra goes for the 1 or 2 liner
<LaserJock> RichEd goes for the thesis ;-)
<RichEd> LaserJock: needed the verbosity ... douse the flame with quantity ... where would you begin to fight back ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: validating people
<LaserJock> you gotta point out where they are right to start with or they just get defensive
<RichEd> LaserJock: did you see the volunteer wiki page as a start ...
<Goosemoose> if im installing via the network, and not using ltsp, is there any reason to use edubuntu-desktop for the preseed rather than ubuntu-desktop?
<Goosemoose> also since i got the netboot file from the ubuntu site i don't see how to install the edubuntu add ons
<sigma> ok il check it out on the cd, thanks
<stgraber> edubuntu addons are the different edubuntu-addon-* packages you can install on top of a standard Ubuntu or Edubuntu
<stgraber> edubuntu-desktop will bring the edubuntu look&feel + things like gobby
<Goosemoose> ok, ill have to try preseed again with edubuntu-desktop, i was having a problem getting a black screen upon reboot which the guys here helped me find the problem yesterday, i just dont know how to keep it fixed
<RichEd> LaserJock: there is a dev version of the handbook here
<RichEd> http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/
<LaserJock> yeah, and it's really old
<graystatic> is there a way to start edubuntu in safe graphics mode
<LaserJock> graystatic: there should be a boot option
<LaserJock> as in, in the boot menu (you might have to hit ESC to see it) there should be a safe mode option
<graystatic> ok I'll try that
<graystatic> all I see is a recovery mode and a memtest96+ mode
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> try recovery mode and see what that does
<LaserJock> it might just drop you to a terminal
<graystatic> it does
<LaserJock> hmm
<graystatic> is there a way to start it from there
<LaserJock> well that would let you fix stuff I guess
<LaserJock> what is it that you're having problems with? graphics?
<graystatic> well I see the loading scree with the loading bar
<graystatic> but when it reaches the end the screen goes blank
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> so I'm guessing you want to edit your xorg.conf file
<graystatic> where is that at
<LaserJock> what kind of graphics card do you have?
<graystatic> one sec let me check
<graystatic> its a gateway alr 7200
<graystatic> I can't figure out what the graphics card is
<LaserJock> is that an oldish server?
<graystatic> a little oldish
<graystatic> but it says it supports up to 1280x1024
<LaserJock> yeah
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting === in 24 mins
<LaserJock> I would say you should try a vesa driver at 1280x1024
<graystatic> how would I do that
<LaserJock> hmm, that's sort of a good question :-)
<LaserJock> xorg.conf is currently automatically generated basically
<graystatic> I was able to run ubuntu in safe graphics mode
<graystatic> but how could I do that with edubuntu
<graystatic> or can you not do that
<LaserJock> it should be the same
<graystatic> I don't know
<LaserJock> there's no difference in booting/X between Ubuntu and Edubuntu
<graystatic> it did it automatically on my ubuntu install
<graystatic> could I boot into fluxbox instead
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> you aren't even getting that far
<graystatic> would that work and how would i do that
<LaserJock> you have to have X running first
<graystatic> oh
<LaserJock> gimme a minute to find some stuff
<graystatic> ok
<LaserJock> I've not had to mess around with this stuff since they changed to automatic X setup
<LaserJock> graystatic: can you see if /etc/X11/xorg.conf exists?
<graystatic> there does
<LaserJock> awesome
<LaserJock> graystatic: ok, if you do grep Driver /etc/X11/xorg.conf what do you get?
<graystatic> one sec
<graystatic> a bunch of stuff
<LaserJock> lots of "wacom"s?
<graystatic> sorry
<graystatic> I just got a new line
<graystatic> I just had run nano xorg.conf and was looking at that
<LaserJock> ah, well that works to
<graystatic> do I need to change something in it
<LaserJock> what we're looking for is the Driver line
<LaserJock> in the "Device" section
<graystatic> ok it says cirrus
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> ok, what we want to try is vesa
<graystatic> now restart it
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I'll be right back, gonna snag some lunch before the meeting
<graystatic> o
<graystatic> ok
<graystatic> thanks for the help
<graystatic> it worked thanks abunch
<graystatic> woo hooo
<graystatic> :)
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting === in 2 mins
<Goosemoose> this look ok: d-i preseed/late_command string apt-install ssh
#edubuntu 2007-12-13
<me4u> hello
<me4u> could anyone help me solve this poroblem with the young theme
<Burgundavia> me4u: the young theme?
<HedgeMage> me4u:  Don't ask to ask, just ask -- if someone knows they will come out of the woodwork
<HedgeMage> heya, Burgundavia
<ari_stress> morning all :D
<HedgeMage> hi ari_stress
<ari_stress> wazzup HedgeMage
<ari_stress> nice nickname
<HedgeMage> thanks :)
<santiago> i have ubuntu, why should i change to edubuntu
<Bauer|> if it's just a desktop/home computer there is no reason. edubuntu is a TS-platform, designed especially for schools
<santiago> i am a college student, has it someting special to offeo
<Bauer|> edubuntu-server is a terminalserver. You can use very old computers as clients, since the server does most of the work. but if you are just talking about your personal computer, there should not be any reason for changing to edubuntu
<santiago> thanks.
<RichEd> Bauer|: I just missed santiago ... your response is not 100% ... edubuntu also has an education menu section, with a bunch of applications that are installed by default
<RichEd> the apps are mainly geared at the moment to say 4-14 year old kids
<RichEd> all apps are available from the add/remove from ubuntu as well ... or else a user can install edubuntu-desktop package on top of ubuntu
<RichEd> so for a home PC used also by school age kids - edubuntu is a good option
<Bauer|> ok, I did not think that his computer was used by kids, since he said he was a college student
<Nubae> Hi, I read autologin has now been fixed for clients of 7.10... is this true? and so how...?
<RichEd> bug #161794
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 161794 in ltsp "autologin doesn't work" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/161794
<Flosoft> hi
<Flosoft> I have setup IPCop and Edubuntu
<RichEd> Nubae: see " Francis Giraldeau
<RichEd>  * new patch to prevent regression" on the page link above
<Flosoft> IPCop connects to the current school network, and edubuntu is the new one :)
<Flosoft> now I want to use the DHCP server from the IPCop
<Nubae> cool thanks
<Flosoft> not the Edubuntu one
<Flosoft> how do I do that?
<Flosoft> the Edubuntu Server has 2 Interfaces
<Flosoft> I want to use LTSP & Co ... but I can set the records in IPCop
<Flosoft> (PXE Boot)
<RichEd> Flosoft: does this help ? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=402126
<Flosoft> not really
<Flosoft> Edubuntu runs a DHCP Server
<Flosoft> the only question now is, how do I disable it on both interfaces?
<RichEd> Flosoft: I'm not too sure ... ogra ^ any ideas ?
<Flosoft> I just want to use IPCop as we'll also use it as a transparent proxy etc.
<Flosoft> so it is easier to have everything what is linked in with the network on one machine
<Flosoft> and then use Edubuntu just as LTSP Server
<Flosoft> and PXE boot ....
<Nubae> so just turn off dhcp
<Flosoft> apt-get remove dhcp3-server?
<Flosoft> won't that cause any problems with the LTSP environnement?
<Nubae> no /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server stop
<Nubae> no
<Flosoft> so apt-get remove is possible too?
<Nubae> no I wouldnt do that
<Flosoft> hmm ok
<Flosoft> but then also remove it from the boot?
<Nubae> just stop it, next time the server restarts youll have to restart manually if you want
<Flosoft> ah
<Flosoft> so it won't restart on boot?
<Nubae> well, to be sure take it out of rc
<Flosoft> ok
<Nubae> RichEd, the thread mentions something about a .deb package
<Nubae> seems that applying the patch isn't that easy...
<Nubae> file:///usr/share/packaging-guide/html/C/index.html -- cannot find this locally
<RichEd> Nubae: well i'd suggest asking ogra ... or else popping over to #ltsp and asking there ... or maybe sbalneav will chip in with a comment from here ?
<Nubae> yeah I'm in ltsp, but seems a bit dead right now
<Nubae> :-)
 * RichEd needs to head off for a while ... sorry Nubae and Flosoft ... I'm not very technical ... just trying to direct you ...
<RichEd> failing help here ... send a mail to edubuntu-devel mailing list
<Nubae> not urgent... just read there was a fix on the devel list so thought I'd find out more...
<Flosoft> RichEd:  thanks anyway :) I think I have all I need for now :)
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stgraber> hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> stgraber: Hey!  Gimme two secs, I'll post a url for the pictures!
<stgraber> cool :)
 * stgraber has installed 4 Edubuntu desktops this afternoon + 4 to come in the next weeks (and we have 10-20 more orders waiting :))
<sbalneav> It's been insane here the last month.  I've done next to no ltsp work, but I got all my work done before Xmas, so I can start getting back into the swing of it now.
<stgraber> that's good news
<stgraber> So you have finished upgrading everything to Gutsy ?
<sbalneav> yup
<sbalneav> When hardy comes out, I'll start tracking LTS around here.
<sbalneav> stgraber: http://www.legalaid.mb.ca/photos.tar.bz
<sbalneav> styx:/var/www# ls -la photos.tar.bz
<sbalneav> -rw-r--r-- 1 sbalneav sbalneav 816306605 2007-12-13 09:03 photos.tar.bz
<sbalneav> 816 megs :)
<stgraber> sbalneav: downloading at 15kB/s, is that normal ?
<sbalneav> yeah, our upstream sucks
<stgraber> sbalneav: anyone else wants them or am I the only one ?
<sbalneav> Only one so far.
<stgraber> ok, I'm downloading through a server with 100Mb/s connection, so if someone wants them I just have to cp to my www directory
 * lns wants to see pictures
<lns> stgraber, if you can post the pics on your www server after you get them, that would be really cool, i'd love to see them..even though I'm  not sure what they are (but are assuming they're from the get together you all had)
<juliux> hi all
<UbuntuUser2> hello there
<UbuntuUser2> Someone that can help me?
<stgraber> lns: yes, it's the pics scott took at UDS
<UbuntuUser2> someone that can tell me where can I find Intel drivers for UBUNTU ?
<stgraber> UbuntuUser2: why would you need a driver on ubuntu ?
<UbuntuUser2> I am installing ubuntu onto a new computer
<UbuntuUser2> and the motherboard is an Intel D815EEA
<UbuntuUser2> Do you know where can I find that driver?
<stgraber> all "drivers" should be included by default
<UbuntuUser2> it wasnt a linux machine
<stgraber> you don't have to download and install drivers as you would do on Windows
<UbuntuUser2> it was a windows
<lns> stgraber, Linux has "drivers" (modules) that you can download for specific hardware, if the kernel doesn't have built-in support for it (or has inferior support)
<lns> ATI, NVIDIA are known for their 'binary blob' drivers that, a lot of times, need to be downloaded and installed manually to get full hardware functionality
<stgraber> lns: yes, right but for someone coming from Windows I think it's fair to tell him that Linux doesn't have "drivers" instead of starting to talk about modules, kernel, binary blob, ... :)
<lns> stgraber, IMHO it's better to give them correct information ;)
<lns> If they understand how drivers work in windows, they should be able to understand how they work in linux
<lns> and if not, at least they don't go tell someone else "Linux doesn't have drivers"
<johnny> most people don't..
<johnny> they just know they are necessary :)
<lns> right
<lns> as they are necessary in linux ;)
<johnny> most people don't want to know the details, they just want it to work :)
<lns> right...but giving them false information isn't the best approach, either
<lns> how about telling them "Linux should have intel drivers built-in" ...?
<johnny> or .. linux has support for intel hardware built in
<lns> sure
<lns> i guess you told him that.. =p
<lns> of course, *all* drivers isn't really good to say
<lns> i know for a fact linux doesn't have support for my servers' video chipset
<lns> (at least ubuntu doesn't)
<stgraber> every needed driver should be included in Ubuntu, be it by default or optionaly (in the restricted-manager), if they aren't, it's a bug
<lns> how can you give a blanket statement like that?
<lns> what if I needed drivers for hardware I built myself?
<stgraber> file a bug for inclusion in Ubuntu, it's the right way to do it
<lns> ok i understand your approach there
<stgraber> you don't want modules everywhere in /lib/modules/ that will no longer work after a security update, everything should be packages (and maintained packages) if you want a stable system
<stgraber> idealy you shouldn't have any compiled by hand kernel/module or software on your system
<stgraber> of course, that's in a perfect world :)
<lns> it's always good to reach for the stars... ;)
<scrapbunny> does anyone have the links Rich posted during the end of yesterday's meeting?
<stgraber> scrapbunny: I have the log, what links are you interested in ?
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/VolunteerUptakeProcess and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Education/Launchpad/Groups/Policy
<scrapbunny> the volunteer link
<scrapbunny> thats the one thanks
<scrapbunny> oh and what is the main testing link you gave? i thought i bookmarked it but it was the edubuntu daily one
<stgraber> https://iso.qa.stgraber.org or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO
<stgraber> davmor2 is also working on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Tracker
<scrapbunny> great thank you. i am testing the edubuntu server install now
<scrapbunny> i should report bugs under the ubuntu alternate group right?
<stgraber> as we are not testing at the moment, you should report them directly on Launchpad
<stgraber> when we are testing (it'll be the case from Tuesday next week), you'll have to report them on LP (or find an existing bug ID), + report the failure on the QA Tracker
<scrapbunny> so is it best to do a new install each tuesday or is there and update file?
<stgraber> during the devel cycle, Alphas are release usually one every 3 weeks
<stgraber> before we release those alphas, they need testing
<stgraber> that's when we need the most people to test them (following the testcases we have on the wiki) and reporting any major issue during install and "standard" use
<stgraber> the bugs you can see on the QA tracker (iso.qa.stgraber.org) all happened when following the testcases and are likely to break the system (in this case, the image has to be rebuilt and tested again)
<scrapbunny> so should i wait and burn the daily on tuesday or try the one i burned last night?
<stgraber> others bugs can still be reported on LP as you usually do
<stgraber> the best would be to join #ubuntu-testing and wait till we announce the first Alpha2 candidates
<stgraber> you can still test some dailies during the weekend and report the bugs you find on Lauchpad, so maybe those will get fixed in for the Alpha
<scrapbunny> ok i'll try the daily and see how it goes. hopefully i'll find anything weird for the alpha :)
#edubuntu 2007-12-14
<ari_stress> morning all
<ari_stress> i'm stuck with tftp being timeout
<ari_stress> :(
<ari_stress> i guess the NIC is the culprit
<lns> ari_stress, i've had that
<lns> what's the hardware?
<ari_stress> lns: really?
<ari_stress> it's on board rtl8139
<lns> hmm
<lns> those are usually pretty damn solid actually
<ari_stress> let me get the wireshark result
<lns> my issue was on a specific line of compaq ipaq workstations with buggy PXE revision
<lns> and no updates since mid 90's.. heh
<ari_stress> Ethernet II, Src: Micro-St_c6:35:95 (00:13:d3:c6:35:95), Dst: QuantaCo_28:15:65 (00:c0:9f:28:15:65)
<ari_stress> did you find a workaround for it?
<lns> no
<lns> they got tossed
<lns> unfortunately
<lns> ari_stress, that doesn't really say much.. just the source/dest macs i believe
<lns> do they match client and server? where is your dhcp server? are you sure you have correct parms for pxe?
<ari_stress> i'm quite sure the dhcpd.conf is correct, because other client can boot into ltsp OK
<ari_stress> the failed client symptoms are: seems like it doesn't recognize the 'next-server' parameter, because it looks for tftp server at 192.168.0.254 (my gateway), whereas it should be 192.168.0.237
<ari_stress> then for testing, i change all 192.168.0.254 in dhcpd.conf to 192.168.0.237, so it then connect to 237
<ari_stress> it requests for pxeclient.0, but still time out
<lns> ahh i think i've had that before too
<lns> what's the thin client?
<ari_stress> what do you mean
<lns> i got around that actually by specifying (in dhcp) a couple of other random similar parms like 'next-server' ... i think 'server-identifier' and another one
<lns> is it an actual thin client or just a random computer with a rt8139
<ari_stress> oh, just a regular desktop pc with onboard rtl8139
<lns> for whatever reason the pxe stack (?) required some non-standard parms from dhcp to find the tftp server
<ari_stress> oh no
<ari_stress> can you share the parameter to me?
<lns>  i think 'server-identifier' and another one
<ari_stress> ok let me google it
<lns> tftp-server-name
<lns> was the other one
<lns> is dhcp on your ltsp server?
<lns> make sure you have correct 'filename', 'root-path' and 'next-server'
<ari_stress> yes it;s on the same machine as ltsp
<lns> k
<ari_stress> let me experiment with it
<lns> ok
<lns> lemme know how it turns out
<ari_stress> all of the above parameter is followed by ip address?
<lns> no not all of them
<lns> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/401
<lns> look at that, that's my dhcp conf in ipcop
<ari_stress> lns: still not working
<lns> you got me then
<ari_stress> i suspect maybe the 'filename' parameter needs tobe modified, so i change it into various setting, still not working
<ari_stress> root@ubuntu710:~# ltsp-update-image
<ari_stress> Parallel mksquashfs: Using 1 processor
<ari_stress> Creating little endian 3.0 filesystem on /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img.tmp, block size 65536.
<neil_d> I am having trouble with edubuntu  I have just installed it the client boot untill the splash screen progress bar is about 3/4 done then stops can anyone help ?
<HedgeMage> neil_d:  it helps if we can see the boot messages -- press Alt+some Fkey to see them -- I forget which one but trial and error is safe :)
<neil_d> The client boot is stoping at "setup LSTP client"
<riot_le> hi @all, anyone here experiences with Neoware Eon-Thinclients in combination with Edubuntu?
<ari_stress> hi all, how do i add printer in client?
<ari_stress> should i logon first as admin?
<ari_stress> hi guys
<ari_stress> i made it
<ari_stress> printing in ltsp5 is a success
<ari_stress> :D
<neil_d> I have been having trouble getting my client to boot, I think I found the problem, in that the video hardware isn't detected correctly, how do I fix this ?
<ari_stress> neil_d: u use ltsp5 from edubuntu?
<neil_d> ari_stress, yes
<ari_stress> i'm afrain i cannot help. i'm new. and from what i read in lts.conf, ltsp5 now shouldn't be configured in any way, it will detect all things
<ari_stress> # Note that things like sound and local device support are
<ari_stress> # auto-enabled if the corresponding packages are installed,
<ari_stress> # there is no need to manually set these options anymore.
<ari_stress> #
<ari_stress> # **** THIS FILE SHOULD NO LONGER BE USED FROM HERE !!! ****
<ari_stress> #
<ari_stress> # With the introduction of the nbd/unionfs/squashfs structure
<ari_stress> # the lts.conf file moved to the tftp root please create:
<ari_stress> # /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf instead for your changes
<ari_stress> #
<ari_stress> # In case you want to use the lts.conf here, this still works,
<ari_stress> # but you need to run ltsp-update-image after every change.
<ari_stress> sorry for the paste
<ari_stress> i've just found it after pulling out my hair setting up printing
<neil_d> yes I saw this I have a lts.conf in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 and it seems to be parsed ok.
<neil_d> how do I setup to which xorg.conf to use for a client ?
<neil_d> what is meant to happen after "Starting LTSP client" ?
 * neil_d that printed by the client startup.
<neil_d> I think I have a OK version of the xorg.conf being used (at least I don't get a black screen now).  But it does nothing after printing "Starting LTSP client    [OK]" :(  what is meant to happen ? how do I fix this ?
<Flosoft> hey
<Flosoft> I have some questions about IPCop and PXE boots
<Flosoft> I have a server which  runs Edubuntu with the possibility to boot PXE ... but I use IPCop as DHCP server
<Flosoft> can I set up IPCop to use the Edubuntu server as host for the PXE boot image?
<Bauer|> i have not tried myself, but may I suggest,,
<Bauer|> filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0"; and option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386"; in dhcpd.conf
<Bauer|> plus "next-server (ip-adress to edubuntu server)"
<Flosoft> ok
<Flosoft> next-server is not the DHCP host?
<Flosoft> so IPCop in this case?
<Bauer|> next-server name;   The hostname or address of the server from which the boot file is to be loaded.
<Bauer|> you should put this on the dhcpd.conf on the dhcp-server
<Bauer|> next-server should be pointing to where the boot image is, which probably would be edubuntu-server
<Flosoft> but I disabled DHCP on the Edubuntu box
<Bauer|> but you have a linux based dhcp-server? put it in the dhcpd.conf in your dhcp server
<Flosoft> ok
<Flosoft> but that one is IPCop
<Flosoft> not the Edubuntu server with the image
<Bauer|> but isn't IPcop linux based?
<Flosoft> yes
<Bauer|> the point with "next-server" is that it redirects to the server serving the boot image
<Bauer|> so you should edit dhcpd.conf on IPCop, and make "next-server" pointing at your edubuntu-server
<Bauer|> it's just a suggestion, not sure if it works
<Bauer|> check out http://www.unix.org.ua/orelly/networking/tcpip/appd_03.htm as well
<Bauer|> if you don't get my explanation, I will try to explain it better :p
<Flosoft> ok
<Flosoft> I get a TFTP server error
<Flosoft> File Not Found
<xyxvv> What have I done!? I installed the DebianEDU and DebianJr. packages on my Edubuintu desktop and now I \'m getting weird issues with updating the system, it even now identifies itself as Debian instead of Edubuntu 7.10!
<xyxvv> sandy@sandy-desktop:~$ lsb_release -a
<xyxvv> No LSB modules are available.
<xyxvv> Distributor ID: Debian
<xyxvv> Description:    DebianEdu/Skolelinux (terra)
<xyxvv> Release:        3.2
<xyxvv> Codename:       etch
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> Morning all
<RichEd> anyone here used kompozer - web page creator : http://kompozer.sourceforge.net/ - and have an opinion on it ?
<sbalneav> RichEd: Haven't used that.  I've used the one that's got the blue fish for a symbol... what's it called...?
<sbalneav> These days, if I need a web page, I tend to just use OO.o, and do a save as html :)
<RichEd> sbalneav: not sure which one you mean ... kompozer just got a nice review from Chris Dawson at ZDnet with some good talkback comments
<RichEd> I like him and his column ... he's a teacher / administrator, who write a column, and lurves Edubuntu LTSP :)
<RichEd> http://education.zdnet.com/?p=1425
<RichEd> * writes a regular column
<Flosoft> hey again
<sbalneav> Hello
<johnny> hi
<johnny> i got autologin working with francis` patch
<johnny> learned package building, etc
<johnny> odd problem tho
<johnny> nobody seems to believe it
<johnny> if i hve lts.conf in the chroot, autologin works, but if it's in the /var/lib/tftboot/ltsp/i386 it doesn't
<me4u> anybody know anything about this "young" theme bug
<me4u> can't seem to set it
<musashi1> any thoughts on why print jobs will show up in the print manager window but not actually print? the printer is working and it will print a test page. just doesn't release jobs from clients.
<musashi1> printing was working before
<musashi1> okay, it finally printed. it sat there for a good 5 minutes before finally printing. not sure why.
#edubuntu 2007-12-15
<ari_stress> good morning all :D
<Jade1> LTSP did not work "out-of-the-box"   any pointers, URLs, tips ?
<daya> ogra, edubuntu 7.10 doesn't implement the nfs, how does the client then mount the remote partition
<daya> I can't get login in the client until I run the command ltsp-update-sshkeys or images command
<daya> ogra, sorry if you don't get, I am talking these in LTSP
<Jade1> LTSP did not work "out of the box" for me with 7.10 . . . any suggestions, tips, URLs . . ?
<daya> Jade1, 7.10 edubuntu it works on me
<reiner> test
<Jade1> which I/F plugs upstream, daya ?
<daya> Jade1, I don'g get you, But 7.10 works when IP is changed to 192.168.0.1
<daya> Jade1, Really I am trying to understand how it works w/o nfs,
<Jade1> there are two ethernet interfaces (I/F) . . . . one is internal       one is external        did you use eth0 or eth1 (for which) .. ?
<daya> Jade1, ye, actually I configure only one, to IP 192.168.0.1, and point it to switch, might be eth0 I just forgot,
<Jade1> during installation the default for primary ethernet I/F was (built-in) VIA-Rhine, and it went dynamic (DHCP - without asking me).
<Jade1> the secondary ethernet I/F, a Realtek8139, defaulted to static 192.168.0.254 (this is the one we cable down to the big switches for all the clients to use)
<Jade1> the primary (Rhine eth0) cables UP to the ISP
<Jade1> first round of attempts at re-configuring found:
<Jade1>  a) using gnome tool to change eth0 to static is incomplete and eth0 always needs a kickstart each reboot
<Jade1> b) changing anything on eth1 away from defaults is ill-advised
<Jade1> what kind of terminal are you using, daya ?
<daya> Jade1, go to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/dhcpd.conf ,what is subnet and network specification there,
<daya> Jade1, attach your thin client to the interface where the DHCP is configured to listen
<daya> Jade1, I think its only the IP setting problem for you, nothing else,
<Jade1> the answer to your question about nfs, daya    is:
<Jade1> In order to speed up LTSP, by default, we're using NBD (Network Block
<Jade1>                     Devices) rather than NFS
<daya> Jade1, yes NBD do u get detail doc. about it, any url
<Jade1> that quote is taken from the System_Help_Handbook section 3.3.1.3
<Jade1> closest this Edubuntu 7.10 machine has to your sugested conf file is a directory named
<Jade1> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/dhcp3/
<Jade1> it contains a file named       dhclient.conf           which is not Edubuntu-ified
<Jade1> not relevant
<theunixgeek> I installed all the GNUstep packages, but ProjectCenter.app doesn't launch. What do I do?
<mattwalston> I see a an error on Thin Client Manager for all clients saying Install x11vnc on the client... how do I do this?
<reiner_> hello who is listening?
<johnny> hi, anybody here use sabayon and has manually repackaged a profile?
<Burgundavia> johnny: why did you do that?
<Burgundavia> I am assuming it isn't working?
<johnny> i haven't
<johnny> i can't edit the profile because a file is supposed to be in there that isn't
<johnny> in the metadata file
<johnny> so i do need to repackage it to allow myself to open it
<Burgundavia> ahh
<johnny> i just want to make sure i know how to do it right
<johnny> cuz i open up the file in file-roller, and it doesn't even contain the metadata xml file that shows up when i unzip it manually on the cli
<johnny> so i'm confused
<me4u> could anyone help me
<HedgeMage> me4u:  without knowing what you want help with, probably not
<HedgeMage> me4u:  it helps if you just ask your question
#edubuntu 2007-12-16
<neil_d> I have a new edubuntu gutsy install.  the client will boot ok if I specify "start_03 = startx" why cant it work with the default ldm ?
<johnny> that's not enough info to go on
<neil_d> johnny: what more info would you like ?
<johnny> like, why it doesn't work with ldm
<johnny> what happens
<neil_d> johnny: it just stops booting at "starting ltsp client" I get a blank screen
<johnny> you're not using autologin are you?
<neil_d> johnny: could the client be having trouble with the encryption to the server ? no I am not autologin !
<johnny> it's possible
<johnny> you didn't change the IP since ?
<neil_d> johnny: I did change the IP but I fairly sure I have done an ltsp-update-sshkeys
<johnny> did you run ltsp-update-image ?
<neil_d> johnny: yes!  I just check the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/known_hosts and the correct IP addr is in there.
<johnny> after the sshkeys /
<johnny> it could be there just fine, but nothing will happen until you run update-image
<neil_d> johnny: is there a way to test from the client I have a shell ?
<johnny> yes.. set SCREEN_02=shell
<johnny> and turn off your startx
<neil_d> johnny: allready done
<johnny> and then try running ldm manually
<johnny> the syntax is odd
<johnny> something like ldm vt7 :0
<neil_d> johnny: it seems to be working now. the "ldm vt7 :0" got me a screen, so I put "SCREEN_03 ldm" into the lts.conf file and its working :)   It also looks like I needed a custom xorg.conf file too.
<johnny> weird
<johnny> you shouldn't have to put that in there
<neil_d> johnny: do you think I should worry abount it ?
<johnny> just as the edubuntu folks about it during the day
<johnny> ask*
<neil_d> johnny: day is subjective it 3:58PM here
<neil_d> johnny: I seem to be having trouble with the "Thin Client Manager" its using 100% CPU and not doing much
<johnny> true
<johnny> during the US/European day
<johnny> thats' when you get the folks around
<johnny> on a weekday as well
<johnny> this is where the 6 month ubuntu release cycle is annoying
<johnny> some bugs end up sticking around
<neil_d> yea I suppose, but its good have something going :)
<johnny> i definitely have more ltsp problems with gutsy
<johnny> i shouldn't have been so hasty to upgrade
<johnny> i think i only did it cuz autologin was supposed to work out of the box, and i didnt want to use my patched version anymore
<johnny> and sadly.. i'm using a patched version
<neil_d> maybe latter in a couple of months it will be better
<johnny> once again
<johnny> the patch will prolly not be released for gutsy i bet
<johnny> hopefully hardy
<johnny> but the cycle for hardy is coming to a close as well
<johnny> so much is still changing in the linux world, it's hard to stabilize around a certain set of packages
<neil_d> I needed to upgrade because I needed a latter python version.  I think I will stick with hardy once its out.
<johnny> but then you'll need something else
<johnny> lol
<johnny> that's how it works
<johnny> i'm still waiting for the policy kit stuff to hit gnome
<neil_d> whats that ?
<johnny> and better input hotplug
<johnny> prolly too long to epxlain here
<johnny> you should check out all the neat freedesktop.org projects
<neil_d> a hotplug update/replacement
<johnny> no
<johnny> this is at the xorg level
<neil_d> ok
<johnny> it interacts with the system/linux hotplug
<johnny> but xorg doesn't just run on linux
<johnny> so it has to be more generic
<neil_d> anyway thanks for the help
<johnny> ask on the list about your need for doing that SCREEN thing
<johnny> if you can't make it here during their hours
<neil_d> ok, i will late one night my time
<neil_d> it might have something to do with using an odd little computer for the client here.
<johnny> hmm..
<johnny> possibly
<neil_d> how is the support for the via motherboards with ltsp ?
<johnny> uhmm.. should be as good as normal linux support
<neil_d> that is the mini-itx boards
<johnny> it should be good
<johnny> it depends on the video car
<johnny> they aren't always the same chipset iirc
<neil_d> got four comming, use little compaq computer at the moment.
<johnny> i hope you checked compat before buying them
<johnny> as far as video is concerned
<johnny> being stuck with VESA would suck
<neil_d> yes it would be,  I didn't check though, hope I don't regret that.
<johnny> well look it up now
<johnny> so at least you're prepared for suck
<johnny> search for the chipset with the word linux
<neil_d> ok
<neil_d> what are you using edubuntu for.  I am constructing a business system.
<johnny> i'm not using edubuntu at all
<johnny> just regular ubuntu
<johnny> but i do use lts
<johnny> ltsp*
<johnny> we use it at our collectively run bookstore coffeehouse as public internet terminals
<johnny> we will end up using it for classes of some sort eventually
<johnny> in a different location
<neil_d> I only installed it because, when I ltsp under ubuntu it wasn't working and I thought I had done something wrong, so I tried edubuntu to see if it would work. that good, how many terminals ?
 * neil_d should read more closely what I type.
<johnny> only 4 atm
<johnny> we don't have much room
<neil_d> how do you control people downloading stuff do you write protect the home directory or something else ?
<johnny> i don't
<johnny> each machine is it's own ~/
<johnny> so i just rm -rf
<johnny> and then it starts with a fresh profile every mornin
<neil_d> ok
<neil_d> is there much difference in speed/load between a startx session and a ldm session
<johnny> i assume startx might be a lil faster
<johnny> but then you get no local device support
<johnny> atm at least
<johnny> or possibly sound
<neil_d> johnny: ok
<neil_d> do you need to shutdown the clients or can you just turn them off ?
<johnny> you're supposed to shut them down prolly
<neil_d> ok
<johnny> but i just turn them off.. since many people just power cycle anyways
<johnny> and there is a bug in the released ltsp in gutsy
<johnny> that means some processes don't die anyways
<johnny> even if you do shut down
<johnny> so when i mentioned i run a command to empty the profiles
<johnny> it also does pkill -9 -u $user
<johnny> just to make sure
<johnny> like so
<johnny> for i in `getent group terminals | cut -d: -f 4 | sed s/,/' '/g`; do
<johnny>     pkill -9 -u ${i}
<johnny> # delete directory
<johnny> done
<neil_d> does this mean that the server should be reset to keep from losing memory ?
<johnny> i could prolly do the cut part in the sed, but my regex isn't that good
<johnny> that should't be a problem if you kill the procs
<johnny> i was at 1200M/2000M all day
<johnny> or thereabouts
<johnny> but now i'm at 650
<johnny> leaks aren't very apparent atm
<johnny> setup a cron to kill all the extra processes for now
<johnny> there's a script called xterminator that you can integrate into your chroot, so that when they login, the old procs will be killed, but it is broken in gutsy for now
<johnny> it's not in the repo either
<johnny> somebody gave me a possible crazy replacement, but i can't verify if it works as i haven't tested it yet
<johnny> crazy as in.. it's multiline shell script shoved into one line :0
<johnny> i think it is somewhere between 50-100 chars long
<neil_d> I will have to keep an eye on the process list for a while.  I do like being able to read the scripts I am running.
<johnny> i like htop
<johnny> it shows me if anyting is going crazy like firefox
<johnny> and then i -9 it
<johnny> that's prolly my biggest issue atm
<johnny> i haven't been able to personally replicate it
<johnny> but it happens when folks use it all day
<johnny> thinking about installing firefox 3 for that
<johnny> even though it's in beta
<neil_d> don't know about firefox 3
<LUG> Hi all. Does exist any Italian's language version of EDUbuntu distribution?
<jbrefort> LUG, distributils are multilingual
<jbrefort> and Italian is supported by many applications
<jbrefort> I meant distributions
<jbrefort> and edubuntu is one of them
<jbrefort> just choose Italian language when installing
<LUG> I will try. Many Tnx.
<daya> Channel, Can I have access to the source code to the LTSP that is integrated in edbunut 7.10
<daya> edubuntu 7.10
<das-t> sorry, i don't have a running edubuntu at hand. but i guess you might edit your sources.list and add an src additionally to the deb
<denvergeek> does anyone know how to disable timed logouts for ltsp clients?
<johnny> timed logouts?
<denvergeek> there's no "login window" editor since it's ldm I believe
<denvergeek> right
<denvergeek> user is idle for 10 minutes
<johnny> what timed logouts?
<johnny> hmm.. i haven't seen that effect
<johnny> mine never times out
<denvergeek> default install, edubuntu server 7.10
<denvergeek> with ltsp thin clients
<LaserJock> denvergeek: hmm, I wouldn't have thought that would be enabled by default
<johnny> i've never heard of this feature
<denvergeek> me either
<denvergeek> but
<denvergeek> 10 minutes of idle time
<denvergeek> and there it goes
<denvergeek> I guess I can poke around gconf-editor
<johnny> sounds like you have something else going on
<johnny> try disabling the screensaver
<denvergeek> heh
<denvergeek> another interesting item
<johnny> or check the screen saver config in any case
<denvergeek> when you try to open screensaver-preferences from the preferences menu
<denvergeek> the X session restarts
<johnny> yep.. that's your problem
<denvergeek> ah
<denvergeek> *click*
<johnny> it goes idle, starts the screensaver, kills the X, brings up ldm
<denvergeek> that makes sense
<denvergeek> yep
<denvergeek> thanks
<johnny> you prolly don't want screensavers anyways
<denvergeek> I sure don't
<denvergeek> hunting down the packages to remove em
<johnny> i have htis
<johnny> in my ltsp config
<johnny> err  chroot/usr/share/ldm/rc.d/S15blank-only
<johnny>  ssh -S ${LDM_SOCKET} ${LDM_SERVER} "/usr/bin/gconftool-2 --set --type string /apps/gnome-screensaver/mode blank-only"
<johnny> err S15-screensaver-blankonly
<denvergeek> just removed gnome-screensaver
<denvergeek> too late!
<denvergeek> but thanks for the help though
<denvergeek> this ltsp setup out of the box is slick though
<denvergeek> beats the heck out of doing it by hand
<LaserJock> It's possible that removing the package may cause gnome some fits
<LaserJock> I've not tried it but I guess you'll find out ;-)
<denvergeek> no problem so far
<denvergeek> pulled the menu entries nicely
<denvergeek> we'll see
<denvergeek> is there any way I can disable all desktop changes for a given user logging in via ltsp?
<denvergeek> no create folder/alias/file or anything like that?
<johnny> i just use sabayon to create a profile
<johnny> and then rm -rf it
<johnny> every night
<johnny> you can lockdown some settings with the lockdown tool, but not as many through the GUI as you seem to need
<denvergeek> right
<denvergeek> I've managed to lock-down the default panels and such
<denvergeek> but
<denvergeek> I'd like to do away with the desktop context menu as well
<denvergeek> sabayon seems to crash quite frequently
<johnny> sadly it's only minor bugs that cause it to do so in my experience
<denvergeek> yep
<johnny> the sabayon team is a bit small
<denvergeek> like removing the trash can for instance
<denvergeek> yeah
<denvergeek> no worries
<denvergeek> I'll figure something out
<johnny> need to provide a way to provide folders to ignore
<denvergeek> or set a desktop wipe-out in cron nightly
<johnny> that's what i do
<denvergeek> almost done
<denvergeek> then I can move to local apps
<denvergeek> weee
#edubuntu 2008-12-08
<freetown> hello all, is there an actual edubuntu repo?
<crimsun> as in "separate from Ubuntu's"?  no.
<freetown> oh, you mean all the stuff on the Edubuntu addon cd is in the main ubuntu repos?
 * freetown whacks himself with a big cluestick
<freetown> cor...if the 'Edubuntu repo' has 13G of software...mirroring the Ubuntu repos is gonna take a lot of space then!?!?
<HedgeMage> freetown: Well, if you are just worried about a certain subset of packages, just mirror those.
<HedgeMage> You can be selective.
<HedgeMage> (Assuming the *buntu repos are configured similarly to what I'm used to.)
<freetown> i guess i use apt-mirror for that? I am very new to Debian/Ubuntu.
<freetown> brb
 * freetown test
<Guest98923> Hi
<Guest98923> need help to make local devides work with NX-LTSP5
<Guest98923> My ltsp server is functional (debian-etch). Local devices work fine with ldm.
<Guest98923> But I need to plug 60 thin clients on a 100Mb network, so NX is indispensable
<Guest98923> Login with NX works
<Guest98923> I've been on : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev page
<Guest98923> Every step is OK until step 3. in step 4, they tell to type the command :
<Guest98923> ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.0.254 192.168.0.254 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add"
<Guest98923> and to post the error messages on irc
<Guest98923> In my case, it first asks for root password (what it shouldn't do, of course)
<Guest98923> then it says : Error: /tmp/.root-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted
<Guest98923> Does anybody here can help me ?
<generalsnus> 	Is there any way of viewing a LTSP session? like remote desktop into a thinclient session..
<generalsnus> 	I have managed to get "student-control-panel" to work, i can see users desktop with the x11vnc.. but how can i control the desktops?
<nubae> its not supported anymore, use Italc
<generalsnus> aaw.. ok i also got italc to work.. but controling a desktop with that is just...  its so laggy..   1 sec update and such
<generalsnus> any advice, on how to getn it faster?
<nubae> what kinda of network connection do u have? gigabit, megabit?
<generalsnus> 100mbit
<nubae> with gigabit it should be a bit faster
<generalsnus> well, giga is not an option :P    but using vnc or rdp on the network have never been a problem
<generalsnus> just slow on italc.. takes ages before the client responds
<generalsnus> the italc "config" says "interval between updates = 1 sec"
<generalsnus> thats the lowest i can choose
<nubae> I guess thats because u'd have many screens working together
<generalsnus> just 1
<nubae> right but generally italc is thought for many screens, otherwise just use vnc
<sbalneav> Morning all
<alkisg> Hello, what's the equivelant "apt-get install" of inserting the edubuntu 8.10 addon cd? Is it "apt-get install edubuntu-desktop"?
<HedgeMage> alkisg: yep, that sounds right.
<alkisg> HedgeMage: thanks!
<HedgeMage> np
<alkisg> OK, I've installed edubuntu-desktop, and then manually installed kde-language-pack-el and gcompris-sound-el for the translations (I hope kde-l10n-el is not needed).
<alkisg> But what do I have to install to get a translated gpaint? It was automatically translated in previous Ubuntu versions..
<sbalneav> Well, gpaint's a gnome application, so I assume you need one of the gnome language packs
<sbalneav> language-pack-gnome-el?
<sbalneav> I'd start with that, anyway
<zamba> does edubuntu have good language support?
<zamba> with good i don't mean comprehensive, but quality wise
<sbalneav> Well, it has support for all the languages that Ubuntu supports, and uses the standard upstream translations.
<zamba> ah, ok
<sbalneav> "edubuntu" itself doesn't have any translations, we just use the distro's and/or upstream.
<zamba> k
<zamba> i want to run a mixed environment with both thin clients, "half fat" clients and fat clients.. can i run this all from the same "pool"?
<sbalneav> You mean, all from the same server?
<sbalneav> If so, then, with a little work, yes.
<zamba> well, not necessarily
<zamba> but from the same user database
<zamba> so that a user will be able to log on which ever client and get up the same workspace
<sbalneav> Well, you'll need things like LDAP authentication, NFS home dirs, etc.  But with some work, sure.
<zamba> ok
<zamba> sbalneav: but what about the setup for a "half-fat" client?
<zamba> sbalneav: is that supported by the ltsp server bit?
<LaserJock> stgraber: around?
<sbalneav> zamba: Define "half fat"
<sbalneav> Localapps?
<sbalneav> if so, Intrepid supports them, yes.
<sbalneav> hey LaserJock
<sbalneav> How's it going?
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav
<LaserJock> sbalneav: don't ask :-)
<LaserJock> oh wait, you already did
<zamba> sbalneav: boots off network, but stores all data on local hard drive
<sbalneav> zamba: User data?
<sbalneav> If you store a user's home dir on a local drive on one thin client, it won't be available anywhere else.
<zamba> more like OS
<zamba> or "differences" in OS..
<zamba> i'm not quite sure what i mean now, but i've heard speak about it
<sbalneav> No, no support for that.
<sbalneav> You'll either want thin clients, or thin clients with localapps.
<zamba> or fat clients
<sbalneav> A regular fat client's fine too.
<zamba> but my scenario is as follows.. i have a mixture of hardware.. some very old computers (which i want to run as thin clients), then some medium range clients (thin clients with local apps) and then the most powerful ones that i want to run as fat clients..
<zamba> but i want all of them to co-exist happily (meaning a user can move from machine to machine and be more or less oblivious to what generation hardware it is)
<zamba> and since i have so many different computers, i want to be able to centrally administer these.. meaning updates and such
<sbalneav> Well the thin clients w/wout localapps can be maintained from the LTSP server just fine.  A common authentication mechanism like LDAP solves the login problem, and exporting your /home partition as an NFS share will allow the fat clients access.
<sbalneav> Updating the fat clients can either be done centrally with some scripting, or by just logging in as admin onece in a while, and clicking on the update manager.
<sbalneav> using something like apt-cacher will reduce download bandwidth for the updates.
<zamba> i want to avoid the last option :)
<sbalneav> Then just script it centrally.
<zamba> yeah
<zamba> sbalneav: but i have to build a new image each time ubuntu is upgraded? (meaning ltsp now)
<alkisg> sbalneav, sorry, now I saw your answer. I do have language-pack-gnome-el installed. gpaint was localized in hardy; maybe there's a problem with the gpaint greek translation in intrepid.
<alkisg> I'll contact the greek gnome team
<stgraber> LaserJock: yep
<stgraber> LaserJock: we've got an edubuntu session at 12, can you attend ?
<LaserJock> stgraber: I'd like to
<LaserJock> stgraber: are you gonna use gobby?
<stgraber> LaserJock: ok, do you have skype ?
<LaserJock> or just mostly chat?
<LaserJock> I do have skype
<stgraber> LaserJock: that's what we were wondering, they didn't mention gobby during the introduction
<LaserJock> bummer
<stgraber> sbalneav: around ?
<sbalneav> stgraber: yes
<sbalneav> zamba: yes
<stgraber> sbalneav: are you also interested in attending that edubuntu session ?
<sbalneav> That now?
<stgraber> 35min
<sbalneav> Sure, we gonna have a gobby up?
<stgraber> yeah, I created a document (empty at the moment) on gobby.ubuntu.com
<sbalneav> ogra!!!
<sbalneav> Awesome
<sbalneav> I'll join in
<stgraber> I'll also have my eee with me so will have skype (in case the sound in the room is as broken as it currently is here :))
 * ogra waves to sbalneav 
<ogra> (sorry, very busy, i'm the session note taker)
<sbalneav> NP
<sbalneav> LaserJock: You in the goooby session?
<LaserJock> sure am
<LaserJock> sbalneav: added the branding item
<sbalneav> Ah
<sbalneav> There a way in gibby I can see who's connected?
<sbalneav> huf durf
<sbalneav> found it.
<RichEd> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey hey RichEd!
<RichEd> just saw your comment in my gobby session ++application bundles
<sbalneav> I'm in the gabby session
<RichEd> is that referring to the edu app bundle spec I just created ?
<RichEd> i can see you in gobby ... but novice gobby user (me) no know how to autocomplete nicks there ... <tab> does summat else :/
<stgraber> I copy/pasted the link to your spec yes
<stgraber> so we don't discuss it during this session but during yours
<LaserJock> when is the later one?
<stgraber> not scheduled yet
<LaserJock> k
<stgraber> RichEd added it to LP some minutes ago
<LaserJock> I wish LP would be hooked up to the schedule so you would get an update with schedule changes to sub'd specs
<RichEd> hi guys ... coupla things for Jaunty
<RichEd> [1] I think we need to have the edubuntu discussion before the application bundles one
<HedgeMage> Hey, RichEd ! Long time no see.
<RichEd> [2] LaserJock - i'll flesh out a wiki page for the application bundles ... linked to the blueprint ... can you add in your menu work comments please so we are all kind of on the same page before we have the bundle session
 * HedgeMage wonders what gibby/gabby/gobby is.
<LaserJock> RichEd: yeah, makes sense
<RichEd> [3] LaserJock & sbalneav would be good to have you both in the bundle / menu session (remotely) so we must make sure we have schedule at a time that you guys can both attend
<RichEd> [4] I'm here (at UDS) until end of Wed, then back on the paraffin budgie back to sunny .za so we need to get the stuff on the agenda before end wed
<RichEd> hi HedgeMage
<HedgeMage> RichEd: did you ever get that email I sent you re: computer club?
<RichEd> gobby is a collaborative editor ... used at UDS so everyone can hack away on the same document in glorious technicolour or technicolor for the spellingly challenjed (sic)
<HedgeMage> heh :)
<RichEd> HedgeMage: i kept an eye out for it but seemed to have missed it ... please reasend
<RichEd> resend even :p
<HedgeMage> RichEd: Will do -- it'll require a rewrite, though, as I was a little overzealous in cleaning out my email a couple of weeks ago (nuked my whole sent folder -- oops!)
<HedgeMage> RichEd: So give me a day or two to get my stats back together.
<RichEd> stgraber / sbalneav / LaserJock : dumb question ... how the fork do i change my nick in gobby to be my nick and not my ubunty user logon name ?
<stgraber> IIRC you can change that when connecting to the server
<stgraber> moving to the room now for the edubuntu meeting, see you there
<LaserJock> can we use this room for IRC discussion during the BOF?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> LaserJock, sbalneav: if you guys have skype and want to listen/speak just add "stgraber" to your contact list
<sbalneav> Don't have anything here today, will just contribute via gobby/irc
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> LaserJock: remote sound problem it says
<LaserJock> yeah, working on it
<nubae> meeting where?
<sbalneav> In gobby
<sbalneav> gobby.ubuntu.com
<LaserJock> stgraber: well, I can hear ok but the mic sounds just awful
<nubae> LaserJock: did u see the changes I did in edubuntu.org, and did they look ok?
<LaserJock> nubae: I wasn't exactly sure what you had changed
<LaserJock> which I suppose is a good thing
<LaserJock> stgraber: yeah
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> stgraber: I can hear and see you alright
<LaserJock> stgraber: my mic is messed up so I'll just listen and "talk" on gobby/irc
<nubae> There should be a mention in the edubunty strategy about sugar, no?
<sbalneav> Can we use ekiga?
<RichEd> nubae: yes there is a section in the strategy document for sugar
<RichEd> also, i have recently been contacted by a sugar lead about a closer relationship with edubuntu ... let me dig out his name
<LaserJock> can we start with branding/naming?
<stgraber> ok, so we have a gobby session with some of the points we'd like to discsuss in this session
<LaserJock> I think it might help use define what we're doing more
<stgraber> LaserJock: sounds like a good idea
<nubae> RichEd: probably morgs
<nubae> or David Farning
<LaserJock> also looking at my beginnings of the strategy doc
<morgs> yeah, probably David Farning
<RichEd> David Farning <dfarning@sugarlabs.org>
<sbalneav> There
<sbalneav> for easier editing
<nubae> morgs I did a presentation on ltsp and sugar thi weekend (6 clients) with collaboration and it worked quite nicely, but there are still many apps taht dont work and various control panel issues
<LaserJock> in our last meeting we discussed a proposal
<nubae> should I open bug reports for all that, and where as its kinda ltsp/ubuntu specific
<RichEd> TOPIC: w.r.t. with the revised approach to edubuntu being an add-on to the ubuntu install ... where are there gaps / issues / shortcomings ?
<morgs> nubae: yeah, I'm aware of at least some of them, report them in launchpad
<LaserJock> 1) Ubuntu in Education would stay on ubuntu.com/education and be more marketing as a way to funnel people into appropriate "products"
<LaserJock> 2) Ubuntu Educational Edition should be dropped
<nubae> +1
<LaserJock> 3) Edubuntu be the "product"/project centered around educational software in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> RichEd: primarily we're just getting a lot of confusion regarding the various terms
<RichEd> well to comment on my own topic, and w.r.t. LaserJock's 2) ... the decision (out of my hands :/) to no longer print and issue a CD for education means that Ubuntu Education Edition is now somewhat meaningless
<nubae> yeah people's eyes glaze over when we begin with edubuntu, the ubuntu in education, additional pacakges addon cd
<LaserJock> RichEd: so can we drop that everywhere? like on the CD download page?
<RichEd> LaserJock: w.r.t. 3) does product make any sense ? would project be better ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: well "project" is certainly better, but we do produce a "product"
<RichEd> LaserJock: let's chew on all of this and take decisions later (before the end of UDS)
<nubae> agree a lttle with RichEd there
<LaserJock> and we need to have some sort of name for the .iso that isn't going to confuse everybody
<RichEd> LaserJock: is it a product, or is it a superset of ubuntu extras ?
<LaserJock> it's a product in that we have an .iso
<LaserJock> unless we want to get rid of that too (which I don't recommend)
<LaserJock> RichEd: but the product is "ubuntu extras"
<RichEd> and (excuse my out of touchness) is the .iso the education-add-on or are you referring to an edubuntu install .iso ?
<LaserJock> education-addon
<nubae> there is definite interest in schools being able to download something that contains all or some sets of educational packages
<nubae> a CD would be nice too of course, but if its not going to be shipped does it really serve a purpose?
<LaserJock> so I think we need to call the .iso *something* you know :-)
<RichEd> okay ... so in my view, there is great value behind edubuntu as a brand / concept / rallying cry ...
<RichEd> and the education edition branding is now showing value and is just adding confusion
<LaserJock> well, there's 2 essential issues that I see here
<RichEd> so perhaps the best approach (imho) is to retain and focus on Edubuntu as the community and project behind adding education value to Ubuntu
<RichEd> retaining the edubuntu IRC channel
<RichEd> retaining the edubuntu.org web site
<RichEd> as being the place(s) where "all things education" are gathered inside ubuntu
<nubae> agreed... it fits with the other naming schemes like kubuntu and xubuntu
<RichEd> does that meet general agreement ?
<LaserJock> yep
<stgraber> so basically going back to what edubuntu was (from a naming/branding point of view) ? no problem :)
<RichEd> Then, as LaserJock says ... we (canonical) use www.ubuntu.com/education as a way to promote to OEM and government and users that ubuntu has a huge education value ... the "pre-sales" pitch
<nubae> regather the pieces from various edges of the interent :-)
<LaserJock> I think the questions are 1) what do we call the CD and 2) how do we talk about "Ubuntu in Education" from the Edubuntu perspective? do we need to worry about it at all?
<nubae> RichEd: it gives you greater ability to offer then kubuntu, ubuntu itself, or edubuntu
<RichEd> And when the user / tester / evaulator moves from sniffing and tyre kicking to wanting to try it out ... they go to edubuntu.org to:
<LaserJock> seems like 1) it should simply be "Edubuntu" and 2) we should point to ubuntu.com/education but otherwise not talk about it a whole lot as people will get there via ubuntu.com
<RichEd> 1. find out how to install the "education cutomised / value-added" ubuntu offering
<RichEd> 2. participate in education community / development
<RichEd> 3. get support etc.
<nubae> is 1 avalable? I dont think so right now... as a cd/product
<LaserJock> nubae: how do you mean?
<stgraber> nubae: it's ubuntu + edubuntu (as in the current educational addon cd)
<nubae> well cd is not available from canonical
<nubae> it requires tinkering to get the stuff working together
<nubae> its not a unified product
<nubae> stgraber: right... is seperate elements
<RichEd> nubae: this is the company policy ... .iso will be available for download
<stgraber> nubae: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/8.10/
<RichEd> edu add-on will be included in the ubuntu DVD
<nubae> oh, thats good at least, something I was unaware of
<sbalneav> If there's tinkering required, those are bugs, and we should fix 'em :)
<LaserJock> ok, so are we broadly in agreement on things then?
<RichEd> so if a school / education department wants a simple clean "hold in the hand" one source install ... the DVD will be the best option
<nubae> its just that schools want to install edubuntu, and we have to tell them to a. download the ubuntu cd, b install it, c download the edubuntu cd, d install that...
<LaserJock> RichEd: are you calling the ubuntu.com/education stuff "Ubuntu in Education"?
<RichEd> (this change was based on the current view that any decent machine now can read DVD) which was not the case 2 years ago#
<nubae> yeah thats fine really
<LaserJock> can we drop "Ubuntu Educational Edition"? I don't see a use for that term
<RichEd> LaserJock: Ubuntu in (the world of) Education
<nubae> except for countries like Nepal and Somalia
<RichEd> LaserJock: Ubuntu in (the) Education (sector)
<nubae> yeah the edition part doesnt make sense there
<nubae> ubuntu in education sounds fine though
<RichEd> nubae: agreed (and me from africa understands) but those are considered to be fringe users
<RichEd> so, from my side:
<RichEd> #1 we are all pretty much in agreement
<RichEd> #2 cox the Ubuntu education edition ... as a non starter
<RichEd> and ... #3 Edubuntu is revitailised as the Project and Community behind adding education value to Ubuntu and supporting the Education
<RichEd> user
<LaserJock> ok, makes sense to me
<nubae> sounds good
<LaserJock> stgraber: how about you?
<RichEd> aye / nae ... votes on addiong those 3 points to the strat document as conclusions
<stgraber> sounds good
<nubae> there has been a little bit of increased interest for edubuntu lately, even for the Spanish list
<nubae> is that even active?
<LaserJock> not the spanish -devel list anyway
<nubae> well sent someone there yesterday :-)
<RichEd> regarding spanish ... we are getting closer to Isotrol, the company (Canonical Silver Partner) behind Guadalinex ...
<sbalneav> ++
<nubae> RichEd: what is the nature of their involvment?
<LaserJock> RichEd: have you looked at the beginnings of my strategy doc? it's in gobby right now
<RichEd> this relationship will spit out a case study / reference as well as processes / procedures for deployment and support of massive schools infrastructure
<RichEd> 300,000 desktops, in 1,200 locations, with a support staff of 27 people on the help desk
<nubae> wow, nice...
<nubae> where?
<RichEd> their approach is open source philisophy from the classroom all the way through the whole system
<RichEd> Andalucia Spain
<nubae> no way... jeez, I just set up a school down there
<RichEd> more on that later ... let's wrap this session first ...
<LaserJock> I'd like to get the strategy doc more or less finished by the end of UDS
<nubae> k
<RichEd> LaserJock: agreed
<LaserJock> that will help us answer questions and give purpose for the rest of the release
<RichEd> let me bring in an approach consideration that has perhaps not been made clear ... give me a few lines to expand ...
<RichEd> with the add-on / and application bundling approach ... the idea is to introduce the otherwise unaware user / evaluator to the depth of education applications sitting in the repositories
<RichEd> so daddy at home can go to education in the add/remove section and chose "primary school" (the age of his kiddie who will be sharing the home PC) and get a blokc of apps downloaded
<RichEd> the same for a teacher ...
<nubae> right Laserjock mentioned better grouping
<nubae> and the use of edubuntu-menus
<RichEd> or for someone who has been tasked with evaluating Ubuntu vs MSFT or fooLinux
<RichEd> I have got a full list of all of the edu apps in the repositories and classified by school age level
<nubae> has the idea of a group of apps that is windows based been dropped completely?
<RichEd> nubae: ?? windows based group ?? MSFT or GUIwindow ... whaddya mean here ?
<nubae> something that runs on windows
<nubae> for evaluation purpopsed
<LaserJock> like the WinFLOSS stuff?
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> I don't think we're gonna have room for WinFLOSS as we move forward
<nubae> seperate cd?
<LaserJock> but perhaps we can work with WUBI
<RichEd> I'll add the application category list to the spec page for the apps bundles ... will get that done by start of tomorrow ...
<nubae> think its valuable to hand a windows teacher, and say, here... try the edubuntu apps
<RichEd> I think WinFLOSS will need to drop down to a list / wiki page ... but I don't think we can cater for it effort wise beyoind gthat
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok, so I sort of see this as Edubuntu is about creating/maintaing/supporting educational bundles, as you put it
<nubae> if u like it, we can install edubuntu in your school
<stgraber> I don't think handling windows applications is edubuntu's goal, I'd prefer to focus first on having it working correctly on Ubuntu :)
<LaserJock> RichEd: we then ship those bundles all together on the Edubuntu .iso
<nubae> its just bundling, nothing more, no support
<nubae> through wubi is fine I suppose anyway
<LaserJock> we need to look at some prioritization though
<LaserJock> Intrepid kinda almost didn't happen
<RichEd> can someone perhaps take that on and create a section in the strat doc ariound WinFLOSS ?
<LaserJock> lets focus on fundamentals
<sbalneav> I'd agree
<LaserJock> get those in shape and then spread out from there
<nubae> I'm happy to list all the edu apps on the website... I think thats valuable
<LaserJock> right now we have ~ 250 bugs open
<LaserJock> most of them haven't been triaged
<LaserJock> many of the apps we're shipping are downright crap
<sbalneav> We've got too few people now... Having to manage building floss for winders just adds more work to the mix.
<stgraber> sbalneav: +1
<nubae> well we can keep it for rainy day
<RichEd> CLOSING COMMENTS ... can I suggest that we proceed as follows for UDS [1] stgraber and RichEd and LaserJock and nubae and sbalneav all take some time to review and add to the strat doc before midday tomorrow
<sbalneav> +1
<LaserJock> +1
<RichEd> [2] I schedule the apps bundling session for tomorrow after midday
<stgraber> +1
<sbalneav> Will do.
<nubae> cool
<RichEd> [3] we remeet on wed morning to take this conversation further, against the strat doc, and get things bedded byu the end of that session ?
<sbalneav> Surely
<stgraber> should we edit the strategy on gobby or drop it from here and simply edit it on the wiki ?
<LaserJock> let's edit the wiki page
<stgraber> ok
<sbalneav> Outside of the session, just edit the wikikiki
<RichEd> so stgraber will file this session under "needs another session" for wed
<LaserJock> we didn't do much/anything in gobby on it today did we?
<nubae> RichEd: can u send me the list of edubuntu apps
<RichEd> nubae: i'll upload the spreadsheet onto the wiki strategy page
<nubae> ok
<sbalneav> k
<stgraber> I updated the gobby page and will see how I can get it scheduled again (it's a bit different than previous UDSes)
<RichEd> w.r.t. editing ... agreed go direct on the wiki ...
<LaserJock> stgraber: excellent, thanks
<nubae> Is there an icon available for every edubuntu app?
<LaserJock> well, sorta
<LaserJock> all the GUI apps should have icons I think
<RichEd> nubae: indeed ... you can see them all in add/remove description
<LaserJock> if they don't it's a bug
<nubae> k
<LaserJock> but we do have server packages and things that don't have icons
<nubae> I recall seeing some missing
<stgraber> I updated a bit the gobby document so that it contains the major points of what we discussed
<RichEd> they are all on your file system somewhere ... add/remove works off local info / files
<RichEd> great ... let stgraber have the gobby doc -> wiki strategy page "job" as documenter ... and we all let him get that done without multi-edits from ourselves for say the next 3 hours /
<RichEd> then we can dive in and add our own 2c before tomorrow
<nubae> I just added one line :-)
<RichEd> thanks guys ... see you in a bit
 * nubae waves
<nubae> stgraber: have u got an explanation somewhere of ltsp-cluster in laymens terms?
<alkisg> I'm a little comfused: there the edubuntu handbook (https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu/Documentation/Handbook), which was previously known as the CookBook (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook). But on the edubuntu documentation page (http://www.edubuntu.org/Documentation) there are mentioned as "Reference" and "Comprehensive" documentation seperately!
<alkisg> And there's also https://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters, adding to my comfusion... So, finally, which of those is consindered alive?
<LaserJock> well, honestly none of them
<LaserJock> alkisg: are you interested in LTSP documentation?
<alkisg> LaserJock: I'm writing an ltsp/edubuntu manual, and I want to give the URLs to whatever edubuntu documentation I can find.
<alkisg> But as you said, most of the things I found was last updated at least 2 years before...
<LaserJock> alkisg: oh, interesting. Is it just for internal use or is it something you hope the public will use?
<alkisg> LaserJock: It's for the public, about 70 pages right now, but in Greek only... :(
<LaserJock> alkisg: for LTSP the best source of documentation is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
<alkisg> Yeap, that's the first URL in the appendix! :)
<alkisg> The second is (ubuntu....)/UbuntuLTSP
<LaserJock> we'll hopefully be packaging that up into something you can install in your Edubuntu machine in the next release
<alkisg> LaserJock: another thing I don't quite understand, is why there is an edubuntu cd... If it's the same with apt-get install edubuntu-desktop, I mean. To save bandwidth?
<LaserJock> pretty much yeah
<alkisg> OK... thanks! :)
<LaserJock> a lot of places don't have great bandwidth
<LaserJock> so they can burn a CD and pass it around
<LaserJock> also it gives you everything all in one place
<alkisg> So, for greek schools where 300MB is not much of a problem, I can just instruct them to use synaptic...
<alkisg> (I just tried the CD in  intrepid and it downloaded >100MB updates, so I didn't have much of a benefit...)
<LaserJock> alkisg: yeah, there's edubuntu-desktop and then several edubuntu-addon metapackages as well
<nubae> does edubuntu-desktop include all of them?
<LaserJock> I think so
<nubae> I mean, I should know this, but its totally unclear :p
<alkisg> I think 2-3 apps are left out
<nubae> whihc ones?
<LaserJock> the CD also has some stuff that's not in edubuntu-desktop that aren't specificaly educational
<LaserJock> gvim for instance
<alkisg> nubae: Eh... I'll have to start my server again... can't tell right now!
<alkisg> nubae: gvim was one of them
<LaserJock> but the educational stuff should all be there
<alkisg> (my test server right know is an ancient amd @750, takes a lot of minutes to start!)
<alkisg> LaserJock: thank you very much, you've been a lot of help!
<LaserJock> alkisg: no problem, please keep us updated with your documentation progress
<LaserJock> alkisg: we'd probably be able to link to it from edubuntu.org
<alkisg> LaserJock: ok, I'll post when it's uploaded. It's a greek ministry project.
<alkisg> (ministry of education, I mean)
<nubae> LaserJock: s I can officially now do away with the mentino of ubuntu education edition right?
<LaserJock> cool
<LaserJock> nubae: I think so yes
<nubae> on the website I mean
<nubae> now we'll have to write, with Jaunty comes the return of the name edubuntu and the end of the rebranding of edubuntu to Ubuntu Educational Edition
<nubae> lol
<LaserJock> nubae: give me links to the pages your gonna update
<LaserJock> well, I think it's better to just drop it
<nubae> I will was just a little tongue in cheek
<LaserJock> :-)
<nubae> http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8.10-release
<nubae> I changed that already, let me know if I should continue along that naming convention line
<LaserJock> I wonder if it should be changed in the header thing
<nubae> oh, yeah sure... hang on...
<nubae> check now
<LaserJock> the top left little paragraph still has it
<nubae> hmmm, I just changed it... u should be seeing: 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex) Released !
<nubae> Ubuntu 8.10 and the Edubuntu 8.10 have been released! Grab the latest versions of Ubuntu and Edubuntu while they are hot!
<nubae> also added your name to community page: http://www.edubuntu.com/Community
<nubae> should I remove any of those?
<LaserJock> got it now
<LaserJock> nubae: I think that whole thing needs to be refactored
<LaserJock> nubae: that page is excessively long and needs to be more "shiny"
<nubae> yeah too many points of contact and teams
<nubae> how do u suggest trimming it?
<LaserJock> well, sort of like http://www.ubuntu.com/support/communitysupport
<LaserJock> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<LaserJock> those are sort of the pages I'm wanting to model after
<nubae> ok so we make more menu links?
<nubae> rather than everything lumped on one page
<LaserJock> well, not quite so much that, though if it's big enough we can
<LaserJock> but we should use icons, 2 columns, bullet points
<nubae> ok I'll try it on the community page, u can then take a look if its ok, and I'll follow through on the other pages... cool?
<LaserJock> nubae: for instance, I started working on http://edubuntu.org/node/50
<nubae> that seems like 4 sections though
<nubae> in the menu
<LaserJock> nubae: well, you'd probably wan to do that as well
<LaserJock> we need a bit of a "portal" effect
<nubae> then making that the main page makes the most sense
<nubae> or adding it underneath get edubuntu here
<LaserJock> ideally I'd like to front page to be like a mini Edubuntu Fridge
<nubae> also, we have community and support pages... really the 2 are teh same
<LaserJock> that's news and interesting things like that, more blog like
<nubae> that requires people logging in and writing something once in a while ;-)
<nubae> is it realistic?
<LaserJock> I think it could be
<LaserJock> right now, not so much
<LaserJock> but even right now, it could be linking to specs, talking about UDS
<LaserJock> linking to LTSP docs, etc.
<nubae> well if we set someone to do a monthly write up for something, it could work
<nubae> rotate like
<nubae> would be nice to show edubuntu world wide usage too
<LaserJock> if that won't work perhaps then we'd have a "News" sidebar and do my "Getting Started" thing as a frontpage
<LaserJock> we can see how it goes
<nubae> ok, I think community and the help & support pages should eb combined
<nubae> they link to the same material more or less with different workding
<nubae> or perhaps teh community page should be more along the lines of how to get involved
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, I'd like to make the main links a bit clearer by having fewer and having each be more of a portal than lots of paragraphs on one page
<nubae> also, do we still have meetings everyweek?
<nubae> or can I take that out?
<LaserJock> well, we haven't done the weekly meeting for some time
<LaserJock> though I'd kinda like to get those going
<nubae> but maybe its best to do it fridge based like u said
<nubae> so that no one complains of a dead project
<LaserJock> we could link to the meeting wiki page
<nubae> whats the link?
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda
<nubae> ok I simplified the page a bit.... can we put the mailing lists, launchpad teams, and local teams on seperate pages?
<nubae> I changed the community page to be simpler, let me know what u think, I split in ways that fit with your portal page
<stgraber> LaserJock: around ?
<LaserJock> yep
<stgraber> I just added a small section about the branding of Edubuntu we discussed this morning to your wikipage. I doubt it's written properly or even is at the right place ... Do you have a sec to take a look ? :)
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if we need to specifically say "it used to be this but now it's this"
<LaserJock> I think being firm in saying "this is what it is" will take care of it
<nubae> LaserJock: can u take a look at the community page on edubuntu.org
#edubuntu 2008-12-09
<LaserJock> nubae: sorry, was busy, looking better for sure
<pem725> sshd refused connection after apt-get upgrade on server - all was working fine before.  I did the usual ltsp-update-*.  Any ideas?
<pem725> sshd refused connection after apt-get upgrade on server - all was working fine before.  I did the usual ltsp-update-*.  Any ideas?
<generalsnus> we have some problems installing skolelinux here,  we are installing "ftp.skolelinux.org/cd-lenny-test-dvd/debian-edu-amd64-i386-DVD-1.iso"  and we are behind a proxy,  but wehen the install gets to "installing applications" it just ends..with no obvious error.. im guessing it tries to connect to the net.. but it has no proxy settings yet..  what can we do?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<pem725> anyone have a solution for udev swapping my eth0 and eth1 after updates?
<pem725> I am using Ubuntu 8.04.1 with ltsp
<sbalneav> pem725: Udev swapped them permanently?
<pem725> apparently
<sbalneav> Never seen that before.
<pem725> I updated my system the other day but waited to reboot because I had clients that were still in service.
<sbalneav> check in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
<pem725> after update and reboot, the system now swaps eth0 and eth1.
<pem725> I changed the rule from eth1 to eth0 in the only rule listed.
<pem725> but after reboot, the udev rule was changed back to eth1
<sbalneav> You only have 1 rule?
<pem725> yes
<sbalneav> but you have 2 cards?
<pem725> the other nic gets assigned though...
<sbalneav> Through what?
<pem725> I don't know.  By default I guess.
<pem725> I checked again and it appears the 70-persistent-net.rules is not working.
<pem725> it is set correctly now but it does not assign the proper nic to eth0.
<sbalneav> If you've got 2 nics, but only one listed in the 70-pnr, you've got something whacky going on with your hardware, I'd say.
<sbalneav> brb
<pem725> k
<pem725> ah, one is an nForce and the other is an RTL (r8169)
<pem725> this is the craziest system I have ever worked on!
<pem725> brb - will reboot my system.
<nubae> sbalneav: how do u suggest we update the documentation for edubuntu? 50% is about LTSP... how about 2 docs, or u think thats just confusing the issue?
<sbalneav> nubae: Well, here's what I was thinking.  We strip out all the LTSP related info out of the edubuntu docs
<sbalneav> get that stuff fixed up
<sbalneav> then, we can either:
<sbalneav> 1) Figure out some way to pull in the LTSP docs into the document itself (might be hard) or...
<sbalneav> 2) make an LTSP docs package that installs into the help application, then just include links to it from the edubuntu docs.
<sbalneav> "For information on edubuntu LTSP see..."
<sbalneav> Now...
<sbalneav> I looked up yesterday:
<sbalneav> http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/Profiling.html
<sbalneav> This allows us to have conditional text within a docbook doc.
<sbalneav> So, what we COULD do, is, within the LTSP upstream docs, we do need (sometimes) some vendor information in there...
<sbalneav> i.e. On fedora, blahblah, un Ubuntu, blahblah, etc...
<nubae> gotcha sounds like a good solution
<sbalneav> so, if we could make those bits conditional, in the UPSTREAM docs,
<sbalneav> we could just package up the upstream docs with "vendor=edubuntu".
<sbalneav> I just have to figure out the right makefile magic to make it happen :)
<nubae> If we are going to inlcude sugar in edubuntu that includes another entire manual...
<sbalneav> right.
<sbalneav> I really liked having the edubuntu handbook in the help section, and I want to see us back to that for Jaunty.
<sbalneav> I'm going to poke around with the makefile stuff tonight.  Now, you're in Asia somewhere, right?
<nubae> Austria
<nubae> :-)
<sbalneav> do'h
<nubae> I was in Nepal...
<nubae> so not totally off
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> So I was 1/2 right :)
<sbalneav> So you're around about the same time's ogra is.
<nubae> Well I'm around to help out with edubuntu docs...
<nubae> yeah same time as Ogra
<nubae> timezone
<sbalneav> right.
<sbalneav> ok, well, why don't we start with this, since you've also contributed to the ltsp upstream docs..
<sbalneav> why don't you hack out the ltsp stuff from the handbook
<sbalneav> and I'll work on getting ltsp docs going with the conditional text
<nubae> What I'm really waiting for is Riched's posting of the list of edubuntu apps, so we include that on the website... there is no place that's listed... or is it in the current handbook?
<sbalneav> I don't think there's a definitive list anywhere.
<nubae> I'll start on taking out the edubuntu specific bits then (non-ltsp)
<sbalneav> Excellent!
<sbalneav> Lets see if we can mash the two together in a week or two.
<sbalneav> I just need to do the magic to get the conditionals working, then start marking the relevent passages in the manual.
<nubae> cool, its time to revive edubuntu a bit, now that we got the name thing sorted out :-)
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> Well, manuals are REALLY important.  When I first volunteered to clean up the edubuntu handbook during the gutsy cycle, that was, really, the first and only ltsp5 docs we had.
<sbalneav> Now things are WAY better, and having good manuals REALLY helps support issue.
<nubae> yeah
<russell_nash> i tried #ltsp for help but that wasn't successful, anybody here undersatnd why I get  a blank screen after login into my thin client? xsesson error message is: local/mark-desktop:/tmp/.ICE-unix/27267
<russell_nash> ** Message: another SSH agent is running at: /tmp/ssh-rjRjM27240/agent.27240
<russell_nash> x-session-manager: Fatal IO error 2 (No such file or directory) on X server localhost:11.0.
<russell_nash> gnome-settings-daemon: Fatal IO error 0 (Success) on X server localhost:11.0.
<pem725> any way to force the nics to swap without rebooting?
<pem725> that is eth1 for eth0 and vice versa.
<sbalneav> russell_nash: Looks like something whacky with ssh
<nubae> russell_nash: or u have 2 ssh sessions running
<sbalneav> have you tried LDM_DIRECTX=True
<sbalneav> pem725: Are both the nics now in the 70-* files?
<pem725> I am adding them right now.
<russell_nash> whacky is a good way to describe it. how do I know if I have two ssh sessions running? my setup worked fine for months then stopped a few weeks ago, I have spent all this time searching for a solution.
<nubae> ps aux
<pem725> Scott, I added the additional line to the udev rules
<pem725> is it possible to refresh udev without rebooting?
<sbalneav> russell_nash: Have you tried rebooting the server?
<sbalneav> pem725: Not to my knowledge
<pem725> ok
<sbalneav> russell_nash: two things to try: 1) reboot the server, 2) rebuild the client image.
<russell_nash> i have rebooted the server over and over in the last week, reinstalled from scratch, hardy & intrepid, currently hardy, as far as I can see sshd is only mentioned once in processess
<sbalneav> I guess the question is: what changed a few weeks ago? :)
<sbalneav> So, you've reinstalled from scratch? Yikes
<sbalneav> Have you got the box there now?
<russell_nash> i have deleted and recreated the image a number of times
<sbalneav> Are you there at the box now?
<russell_nash> yes i am here
<sbalneav> ok, so, you're running the default desktop, yes?
<sbalneav> Gnome?
<russell_nash> yes i m, just to clarify an using hardy desktop with gnome
<sbalneav> ok, so on the thin client, you're booting it fine, you get the login window, you type in the username and password, and it says "verifying password", and then the screen clears.
<sbalneav> and nothing, right?
<russell_nash> what changed a few weeks ago is my grfx card broke, i have new one, but nvidia 8800gt from 7600gt, but could that really make a this happen? i get to the login screen, enter username and password and then i end up with a black screen and mouse pointer, after bout 5 minutes wait ti returns to login
<sbalneav> The graphics card, where? On the server or on the thin client?
<russell_nash> sorry on the server, client is an old dell optilex 240, has ati rage 128 graphics which i believe is just a bog standard pci vesa card
<russell_nash> i set  to auto in lts.conf but have tried lots of other options, and changing color depth e.g. 16 24
<sbalneav> Can you paste your lts.conf to the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<russell_nash> sorry, i am new to irc, didnt know that would happen, i will post my current lts.conf, but i have tried many combiniations and also non at all, because it always worked before automatically with none. i will do that now
<russell_nash> here it is http://paste.ubuntu.com/83020/
<russell_nash> thanks for the response, this is the most interest I have had after frequenting many places for help
<sbalneav> Well, most of the time you'll get a response in #ltsp, I'm normally always in there too.
<sbalneav> Maybe noone was looking at the time you asked.
<sbalneav> ok, so what's your server's IP address? 192.168.0.1?
<sbalneav> Where is your lts.conf BTW? in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386?
<russell_nash> yes of course, i understand. yes thats right, that is the ip address of the nic card, yes, that is the correct lts.conf location
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> lets strip things down a bit.
<sbalneav> lets create a lts.conf that just has:
<sbalneav> [default]
<sbalneav>     SERVER=192.168.0.1
<russell_nash> eth1 card is at 192.168.0.1
<sbalneav>     LDM_DIRECTX=True
<sbalneav> in it
<russell_nash> ok i will edit that now
<sbalneav> move the other one out of the way somewhere safe
<russell_nash> done
<sbalneav> ok when you've got things set up with the new lts.conf, reboot the TC, and let's see what we get
<russell_nash> unfortunately, the effect is the same.
<sbalneav> ok, lets try this.
<sbalneav> Lets create a brand new user
<sbalneav> Are you trying several different users, or using the same one to log in on over and over?
<russell_nash> i am using 2 logins, the old one that worked in the past and a new one that I created called "test", although its now been several weeks since i created it.
<russell_nash> i will delete test and create it again
<russell_nash> ok i have created a new user called ltsp, i will try booting that
<russell_nash> blank screen again unfortunately
<sbalneav> ok, so, ;ets see what's going on with the thin client.
<sbalneav> lets do this:
<sbalneav> chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<sbalneav> (as root, sorry)
<sbalneav> passwd -u root
<sbalneav> (enter a root password twice)
<sbalneav> exit
<sbalneav> ltsp-update-sshkeys
<sbalneav> ltsp-update-image
<russell_nash> it gives me the message password changed when i enter passwd -u root
<sbalneav> perfect
<sbalneav> so, rebuild the image with ltsp-update-image
<russell_nash> underway
<russell_nash> complete
<sbalneav> ok, reboot the thin client
<sbalneav> try logging in
<sbalneav> then switch to the console of the thin client by pressing ctl-alt-f1
<sbalneav> and log in as root with the password you entered.
<russell_nash> ok going to do that now
<russell_nash> ok i am at ctrl alt f1 login prompt now
<sbalneav> Logged in as root?
<russell_nash> yes
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> perfect
<sbalneav> lets have a look at /var/log/ldm.log
<russell_nash> sorry what command should I use?
<russell_nash> i m in the directoy, but what to view it?
<sbalneav> more ldm.log
<russell_nash> ok, there is a warning: no xath data; using fake authentication data for x11 forwarding LTSPROCKS
<russell_nash> xauth data not xath
<sbalneav> Hm, ok, well, that's going to be a problem, then
<sbalneav> You've built the chroot, have you updated it with the updates?
<sbalneav> on your chroot, what's in your /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list file?
<russell_nash> after that it says saw sentinel logged in successfully, executing rc files, beginning rc files
<russell_nash> yes i have updated
<nubae> hmm usb creator doesn't work on fat16
<nubae> strange
<russell_nash> here http://paste.ubuntu.com/83050/
<sbalneav> So you've chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 && apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && ltsp-update-image?
<sbalneav> wierd
<sbalneav> does it mention anything in the ldm.log on the Xauthority file?
<russell_nash> no, that is the only mention of xauth or any kind of allusion to there being an error
<sbalneav> hm
<russell_nash> not easy, is it?
<sbalneav> Dunno.
<sbalneav> Just needs more debugging :)
<sbalneav> what's running on the server as this test user? Anything?
<sbalneav> I'm just trying to figure out where it's stalling.
<russell_nash> sorry, what do you mean?
<sbalneav> On the server: ps -ef | grep <testuser>
<russell_nash> http://paste.ubuntu.com/83055/
<sbalneav> The screen's still blank?
<sbalneav> ltsp's the user you're logging in with?
<russell_nash> that is correct "ltsp" in stead of "test", it was the first name that came into my mind. I have deleted the username called "test"
<russell_nash> but results re always identical no matter what username i try
<russell_nash> i will do another reboot
<sbalneav> can you email me the .xsession-error file from ltsp?
<sbalneav> as well, clear out all ltsp's processes with kill -9 -u ltsp
<sbalneav> on the server
<sbalneav> it's definitely gettin PART of the way in, as it's starting the panel, the Xsession, etc.
<sbalneav> how's the server and client connected?
<sbalneav> via a switch?
<sbalneav> also, installed a firewall lately on the server?
<HedgeMage> "If Illinois isn't the most corrupt state, it's a strong contender."
<HedgeMage> oops
<HedgeMage> sorry, wrong chan
<russell_nash> i do use a firewall. ipkungfu, but that is not new i have always used that since the very first time I ever used ltsp server almost a year ago
<sbalneav> I'd be interested to see what would happen if you disabled it.
<russell_nash> ok i will try it
<sbalneav> Heading out for lunch for a bit.  Be back in an hour or so.
<russell_nash> i tried it, i got slightly further with a "gnome settings  daemon" grey box in the corner that said "did not receive a reply", However, this does happen on rare occasions instead of just the balnk screen.  where do i email the file to? by the way the kill -9 -u tlsp command gives me this message ERROR: garbage process ID "ltsp".
<russell_nash> ok I have to go to, return later if can
<LaserJock> morning all
<nubae> hey LaserJock
<nubae> I added some bits to the strategy doc
<LaserJock> saw that
<LaserJock> I think perhaps we should write up a nice howto for using wubi
<LaserJock> all people would need to do is use wubi and then install edubuntu-desktop to get all the edu stuff
<nubae> and split the work of edubuntu handbook with sbalneav, I'm ripping out all the ltsp parts, so we can then conditionally add that to all the distros
<nubae> yeah, thats an idea for sure, I think getting windows users to 'see before they buy' would be very good
<nubae> I really would like to see a list of all the apps in edubuntu
<LaserJock> yeah, we *really* need to get on top of that
<LaserJock> but it's hard when you're not really sure what you're doing :-)
<LaserJock> I've been thinking about this whole bundle thing
<nubae> well, Riched said hed post what he's got to the strategy doc
<nubae>  guess we can remind him tomorrow
<LaserJock> and about not really focusing so much on the .iso, but the bundles
<LaserJock> the .iso would then just be a convenient way to get the bundles
<nubae> yeah I agree
<nubae> we need to focus on whats in the iso rather than the iso itself ;-)
<LaserJock> because of history I tend to think more along the lines of we gotta create an .iso and then having a convenient way to install from the internet is just a convenience
<LaserJock> but it should really be the other way around I think
<LaserJock> the one exception to that I think is LTSP, which isn't directly our problem
<nubae> yeah probably 20% will be using the cd
<nubae> most people have good net access now
<LaserJock> LTSP really should be done via the CD (Ubuntu Alternate)
<nubae> yeah I think we need to forget a little about ltsp, and concentrate on edubuntu itself
<nubae> what are your thoughts on Sugar integration for jaunty
<nubae> it kinda needs a manual of its own
<LaserJock> well, we need to figure out a documentation strategy I think
<LaserJock> our Handbook was primarily LTSP
<LaserJock> now that that is properly taken care of by LTSP
<LaserJock> I'm not sure what exactly we want to work on
<nubae> yeah I'm ripping all the ltsp parts out, and leaving us with whatevers left
<nubae> sbalneav will then conditionally insert the edubuntu stuff into the ltsp doc
<LaserJock> like what?
<nubae> You meant what's left... I have no idea yet...
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> as far as I know there's really not much of anything in there that's up-to-date
<nubae> right, I'll try and update... but should we focus on it apps by app
<nubae> I mean... we dont need another ubuntu howto
<LaserJock> well, but I'm not sure we need that
<LaserJock> individual apps should have their own help
<nubae> at least pointers to the relevant docs
<nubae> yeah but nothing indexed
<LaserJock> why does it need to be indexed?
<nubae> well I mean, so users can quickly find where the relevant docs are for the edubuntu app in question
<LaserJock> why wouldn't they find that in the app itself?
<nubae> one problem is currently the documentation page on edubuntu.org as 7 different links
<nubae> well first of all they need to know which apps are in edubuntu right?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> well, I mean, we need to document that
<LaserJock> but as far as help it doesn't matter
<nubae> ok, let me give an example
<nubae> lets say you want help on sabayon or pessulus
<LaserJock> if they're running Kalzium they should be able to go into Help -> Contents or something and get it
<nubae> first... the names are totally confusing so the user doesnt know what hes actually looking at
<nubae> second the docs are scattered all over the net
<LaserJock> ok, my point is 1) they shouldn't have to know what the name is to get help and 2) the app should document itself
<nubae> on a tangent... will SchoolTool be included for Jaunty... its up to date and working now
<LaserJock> that entirely depends on if it works with our zope
<nubae> you're right, but I dont think most apps are intuitively named... ie... for editing user profiles, use sabayon and pessulus
<LaserJock> last I checked they were still using their own
<nubae> it should now be a apt-get install schooltool, or a couple others
<LaserJock> but again, it shouldn't matter what the app is named in order to get help
<nubae> so maybe a better approach is, we split the handbook by topics of usage
<LaserJock> now, we should document that separately, but not as help
<LaserJock> I say get rid of the handbook entirely
<nubae> really?
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> it's nothing but a pain
<nubae> it may just add a layer of complexity its true
<LaserJock> it was designed to go onto the users machine
<LaserJock> we need to get them info *before* they install
<nubae> yeah true dat
<LaserJock> edubuntu.org and the wiki should give the pre-install and install documentation
<LaserJock> and if needed perhaps we can put them together into some sort of pdf, I don't know
<LaserJock> but once installed we need to make sure that the apps themselved have adequate documentation
<nubae> well Riched has that spreadsheet of apps, we could include that
<LaserJock> *themselves
<nubae> and how would we do that?
<LaserJock> testing
<nubae> not include apps with no docs?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> if they have docs make sure they're installed and work
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> if the docs aren't great, contribute better ones upstream
<LaserJock> if they don't exist we can write some and contribute upstream
<nubae> http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/Profiling.html
<LaserJock> but generally the best place to document an app is within the app itself
<nubae> thats what sbalneav was talking about, we could use the same approach to include apps docs
<LaserJock> see, one thing that complicates a big handbook is the bundle concept
<LaserJock> we might document stuff people don't have installed
<LaserJock> so we would have to always make sure people knew how to get the app first, then how to use it
<nubae> but it could pull it in conditionally
<LaserJock> yeah, but that's one heck of a pain
<LaserJock> I don't want to maintain any docbook
<nubae> ok, so u are thinking just website and the apps own help sections?
<LaserJock> at least if I can help it
<LaserJock> website, wiki, and apps help section
<LaserJock> basically
<LaserJock> I think we could probably keep the About Edubuntu
<nubae> ok, wiki is probably good place for apps usage, similar to what we did with UbuntuLTSP community pages
<nubae> but to start with, we should probably fix the 7 links to various out of date documentation on the website
<nubae> I still think the website will be the point of entry for most people
<LaserJock> well, we sort of need an overview of what's out there
<LaserJock> I get the feeling that we have too much "stuff" floating out there
<LaserJock> and we can't keep it updated and it's confusing to people to have so many resources or points of entry
<LaserJock> nubae: back with us?
<RichEd> LaserJock: pingie ping ping
<LaserJock> RichEd: what's the plan today for the strategy doc, bundles, etc.?
<LaserJock> I only see 1 LTSP spec on the schedule for today
<RichEd> LaserJock: just created a 1st pass app bundle spec ... uploading attachment (categorisation of apps now) ... will push to get the session on the table for just after lunch
<LaserJock> since this seems largely IRC can we do it at any time that's convenient for everybody?
<LaserJock> ok
<RichEd> we only need 2 people here as UDS so any quiet time and small room will work out for us ... confident i can get a space & time
<LaserJock> I'm a work today so I'm I'll hopefully be able to join for the full time
<LaserJock> may be in-and-out
<LaserJock> I'm expanding the strategy doc at the moment
<RichEd> LaserJock: going from one meeting to another now ... aiming to have the bundling session at 3:00 or 4:00pm  California time [ 12:00 pm now ]
<RichEd> i'll confirm the time by 2:00 pm (within 2 hours) from now
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok
<LaserJock> RichEd: I'll try to have the Strategy Doc roughed out by them
<LaserJock> *then
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
<LaserJock> nubae: you around?
<LaserJock> *anybody* around in fact? :-)
<nubae> am now
<LaserJock> nubae: have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
<LaserJock> the last 2 things (WINFLOSS and branding) will be incorporated into the rest so those sections will go away in the table of contents
<nubae> ok, looks quite fleshed out now
<LaserJock> the outline is anyway
<nubae> whats seed management?
<LaserJock> seeds are how we define what apps we ship, what would go into "bundles", etc.
<nubae> ok, like edubuntu-primary, edubuntu-science?
<LaserJock> it's sort of the core of how we define what packages are "edubuntu"
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> edubuntu-desktop is defined there
<LaserJock> nubae: anything to add/remove?
<nubae> not that I can think off, maybe some elaboration on documentation like we discussed today
<nubae> I'll add a little subsection under LTSP and administration, about edubuntu fat client... since that specifically installs a set of packages that should sync with what we do in edubuntu
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure we want to get *that* specific on this doc
<LaserJock> not sure yet
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> nubae: that sounds like perhaps more of a Roadmap thing
<nubae> Its actually a little like edubuntu, not sure which packages should be installed by default
<nubae> the advantage is no limits on ram and cpu
<nubae> One thing people have requested too is wine with edu apps, but thats totally non open source so guess shouldn't be supported
<LaserJock> wine is open source
<nubae> that apps that run under wine I mean
<LaserJock> ah, we're not in a position to support the apps in wine
<LaserJock> we need to look at what we're able to actually do :-)
<nubae> :-)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Yes, around now
<LaserJock> sbalneav: can you have a quick look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument
<sbalneav> looking
<LaserJock> just the outline
<LaserJock> see if you think anything should be added/removed
<sbalneav> Seems awesome
<sbalneav> Like a desert and a bottle of wine in a French Cafe beside the Notre Dame.
<LaserJock> heh
<sbalneav> nubae and I have already done some quick stratergising about the manual
<nubae> Laserjock thinks perhaps we should drop the non ltsp parts entirely
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, I think we need to talk about that some
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I'm more of the opinion we should be putting that content on edubuntu.org or something rather than installing as a package
<LaserJock> nubae: why?
<nubae> no reason, just clarifying
<nubae> I tend to agree it removes a layer of complexity
<LaserJock> well, LTSP is a big part of educational environments
<nubae> yep, that part should definitly remain
<LaserJock> I think if we are clear that we don't "own" LTSP specifically, but that we do care about it
<LaserJock> the problem with dropping it entirely is that then people are left out in the cold
<LaserJock> we're the only group that does care about it right now
<nubae> non-ltsp parts
<nubae> ^^ I meant, keep the LTSP parts, drop the rest
<LaserJock> rest of what?
<nubae> edubuntu handbook
<sbalneav> Oh, I don't think we should drop the rest of the handbook
<LaserJock> well, this is how I look at it
<sbalneav> I think we should have both as installable gnome-help books.
<sbalneav> here's why (speaking from personal experience)
<LaserJock> LTSP documentation should live in LTSP land
<LaserJock> Edubuntu should just worry about edubuntu-specific things
<sbalneav> lots people in Brazil don't have an internet connection, and would like access to manuals.
<sbalneav> LaserJock: right.
<nubae> but whats really in the edubuntu manuals? The specific apps? otherwise its just ubuntu with artwork, right?
<sbalneav> So, me, as upstream LTSP, can work on the LTSP docs, and we can make them an installable package, and nubae and myself can work on the edubuntu handbook, and just REFERENCE the other ltsp docs.
<LaserJock> and I think that the best place to put this stuff is on edubuntu.org
<sbalneav> edubuntu.org in addition to installable xml help files, or instead of?
<LaserJock> well, I was thinking instead of
<LaserJock> the problem is that yelp sucks
<LaserJock> it's just awful
<sbalneav> having no, or unreliable, internet sucks even harder :)
<sbalneav> then yelp's a dream :)
<LaserJock> we can ship PDF/HTML
<sbalneav> sure, but we can GENERATE all that from the xml
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> xml also has the high barrier to contribution problem
<nubae> Either way we need to define what goes in it
<LaserJock> if we have people who want to work on it then fine
<sbalneav> so if we go to the trouble of editing the XML, and yelp DIRECTLY works on the xml, how much extra work is it to have it readable from yelp
<nubae> yeah editting in xml format isn't rocket science
<nubae> though one shouldn't use open office as I learned :-p
<sbalneav> Here's the problem as I see it: if we have GOOD docs in wiki, then edubuntu becomes usable ONLY by areas that have innurnet
<sbalneav> heh, NP
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> that's not *exactly* true though
<LaserJock> we can make wiki dumps
<sbalneav> "wiki dumps"?
<LaserJock> wiki -> HTML or wiki -> docbook
<sbalneav> I'm intruigued: go on
<LaserJock> you can ship wiki snapshots
<LaserJock> it takes some work before release but allows broader editing
<LaserJock> anybody can contribute
<sbalneav> but then they have to install apache + wiki to read manuals, no?
<LaserJock> no
<sbalneav> or is there a "standalone wiki server" you can install?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> you just dump it as HTML
<LaserJock> static site
<LaserJock> or you dump it to xml and do whatever you want with it
<LaserJock> it takes some work but it's an option
<sbalneav> hm, well, from my point of view (simply playing devil's advocate), we can either xml > (html/pdf/yelp) or...
<LaserJock> from my point of view we can either struggle to maintain xml or ...
<nubae> for now, if its just us, we might as well stick with xml and move to wiki slices after Jaunty, no?
<sbalneav> wiki -> html -> xml (will need cleaning) -> (html/pdf/yelp)
<LaserJock> I'm not against xml, but we've got a *real* serious problem with outdated xml allover the net
<LaserJock> people are going to doc.ubuntu.com and getting confused when running old commands doesn't work anymore
<sbalneav> Sure, but it's not like we don't have the exact same problem with the wiki too.
<LaserJock> except the wiki is easier to maintain
<sbalneav> I'm happy to go either way, don't get me wrong...
<LaserJock> and is a single point
<LaserJock> well, me too
<nubae> yeah its only because volunteer input that LTSP is so up to date now
<nubae> and we have xml and wiki formats there
<LaserJock> I just want to be clear what that we can actual write *and* maintain this stuff
<LaserJock> LTSP isn't so bad, you guys have more high quality people
<nubae> I think just more people
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> but Edubuntu's not got much for resources so I want to make sure we have a sustainable doc plan
<LaserJock> we tend to go gang-busters for 1 release
<LaserJock> then nothing happens for a couple
<sbalneav> What would help is if there was a nice tool that would allow us to point at a wiki root, and get all the connected wiki pages, and then convert them into a single XML document.
<LaserJock> and all the docs are dead
<sbalneav> Agreed.  I busted my hump for Gutsy, but then personal problems made me sit out hardy and a chunk of intrepid.
<LaserJock> right, and we need a doc model that can deal with that better, IMO
<sbalneav> Well, maybe I ought to write a "wiki->xml" tool.
<nubae> surely that already exists
<LaserJock> well, we have that right now
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure if that does a tree
<LaserJock> it'll do single pages for sure
<sbalneav> right, it's the tree bit that's the issue
<LaserJock> well, is it?
<LaserJock> how much content do we need?
<LaserJock> I think we could do it in a single page
<LaserJock> we don't have to worry about LTSP, that's covered
<sbalneav> http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/03/03/sgmlwiki.html
<LaserJock> what else do we need?
<nubae> openwiki transforms to xml and then to xhtml
<LaserJock> let's define first how much content we're talking about here
<LaserJock> I'm really guessing we can do 1 wiki page and convert that to xml for shipping with About Edubuntu
<LaserJock> we want a section on how to get help, how to contribute, what edubuntu's all about
<LaserJock> what else?
<nubae> thats all in the edubuntu handbook right now, in xml format already
<LaserJock> so we can update that an put it on the wiki
<LaserJock> then toward the end of the cycle we dump it to docbook and make sure it looks ok
<nubae> ok, what me and sbalneav talked about is me ripping out the ltsp parts and seeing what we're left with
<nubae> I could then put that into wiki format
<LaserJock> I think it's basically what I talked about
<nubae> and update
<sbalneav> right, so lets's start there.
<LaserJock> my point is sort of this
<LaserJock> I want that info online somewhere
<LaserJock> I think *most* people will see it there
<LaserJock> but I don't want to cut out the people with bad internet connections either
<LaserJock> it seems to me in the couple years I've been dealing with wikis and docbook that it's easier to write it on the wiki then dump to xml and ship
<LaserJock> we can link to the online LTSP manual in the wiki
<LaserJock> then sed that link to a yelp URL or HTML link when we go to docbook
<LaserJock> that seems to me to be the most maintainable and inclusive way to have our cake and eat it too :-)
<LaserJock> the thing I didn't like about the old handbook was that we never managed to get it online in a good way
<LaserJock> it ended up getting build and put on doc.ubuntu.com but that's a really bad idea and I think we got a mess from doing that
<sbalneav> ok, just had a look at wt2db from tldp.org
<sbalneav> It'll do one page, so maybe with the right wrapper, and sompe python/perl majik, we could make it traverse a tree.
<sbalneav> lets start with the one page, and see where it goes.
<LaserJock> well, wiki.ubuntu.com will give use a single page for free
<LaserJock> so starting there seems reasonable
<LaserJock> *us
<LaserJock> sbalneav: what do you think, am I messin' with your plans?
<LaserJock> I just really want to get this stuff online too
<sbalneav> No, not at all.
<LaserJock> one thing we could consider is doing docbook -> HTML and somehow getting that HTML on edubuntu.org
<sbalneav> I want to keep the upstream LTSP doc as XML, since we also do things like generate man pages, etc from that
<LaserJock> since we don't have access to the server I'm not sure how that'd work exactly, perhaps there's a good drupal way to do it
<LaserJock> for sure
<sbalneav> but I have no problem with this, we just need to figure out the tool chain.
<sbalneav> I'll work on that tonight.
<LaserJock> the toolchain?
<sbalneav> right.  What widgets/pelscripts/magicalgoo we need to go from wiki->xml
<nubae> but we cant put that on edubuntu.org
<nubae> the scripts that is
<LaserJock> sbalneav: well, the wiki has a "Render as Docbook" option
<sbalneav> Ideally, what I'd like is a package where we just type "make", and it goes to some well defined website, and marches through the wiki, generates the xml, then pdf's and yelp files from that.
<LaserJock> although it seems broken, we might have to look into that
<LaserJock> might have to set up a local moin instance to do it, which is pretty easy
<sbalneav> yeah. "You need to install 4suite..."
<sbalneav> Any way we can rsync all the edubuntu content?
<LaserJock> ok, wait a sec
<LaserJock> *how* much content do you think we're gonna have?
<LaserJock> I'm only seeing 1 page
<sbalneav> dude, once you put it up on a wiki, you KNOW it's gonna turn into a TON of pages!
<sbalneav> "Here's my tutorial on using gcompris!" "Here's how to install apps in wine under edubuntu" etc.
<LaserJock> bah, no, we don't want all that
<LaserJock> that can go elsewhere
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> then you DON'T want a wiki.
<sbalneav> that's what wiki's devolve into.
<sbalneav> and I'm fine with that
<sbalneav> let the users put in what THEY want to see in the handbook
<LaserJock> dude, we've never really had a problem with *too* much content
<LaserJock> look at the Recipes and FAQ pages
<sbalneav> I know, but the potential's there.
<sbalneav> I'm sure, in the short term, it'll stay as one page
<sbalneav> but long term, it'll morph on you
<LaserJock> I think it's easier to manage that, IMO
<sbalneav> and like I say, that's cool, let a 1000 flowers bloom, says I
<LaserJock> we just want an intro page
<LaserJock> people can get crazy elsewhere :-)
<sbalneav> but if they're willing to get crazy, then why not let them get crazy on the handbook.
<sbalneav> my only question is: translations
<LaserJock> because we want a very focused, high quality doc to ship
<LaserJock> I don't want everybody's tips on everything
<LaserJock> I want the Edubuntu essentials
<sbalneav> Fair enough.
<sbalneav> Well, lets start down the road, and see where we end up.
<LaserJock> it's just not practical to do that I don't think
<LaserJock> to just include everything
<sbalneav> So, all in favour of 1 wiki page, plus goo to wiki->xml, vote!
<sbalneav> ++
<LaserJock> let me think on it a bit more
<sbalneav> lol
<LaserJock> I'm not convinced of my own proposal
<sbalneav> bwahahahaha
<sbalneav> spoken like a true academic!!
<LaserJock> translations are an issue
<LaserJock> we can xml2po and get this stuff translated
<sbalneav> That makes sense
<LaserJock> the wiki would be *much* harder to manage translations on
<sbalneav> we just have a cutoff date for wiki updates.
<LaserJock> hmm, but that leaves the wiki page untranslated
<LaserJock> I wonder if a xml -> wiki strategy would be possible to get us translations
<sbalneav> what, maintain source in xml, and slap up on a wiki?
<LaserJock> or turn it into HTML and put it on edubuntu.org
<sbalneav> Why don't we just put the xml source on a wiki page, and let people edit it :) LOL
<LaserJock> I view this as the best of our best in terms of documentation
<LaserJock> it would be nice to 1) put it in prominent places for people to get at it and 2) have it translated as widely as possible
<LaserJock> perhaps stgraber could help us
<LaserJock> I'm not familiar with doing that sort of thing with drupal, I'm not sure how easy it would be to stick a HTML tree in there
<LaserJock> sbalneav: well, I set up a quick local Moin wiki, put the StrategyDoc into it and rendered as docbook
<LaserJock> yelp opens it just fine without any modifications
<LaserJock> that's something anyway
<sbalneav> cool
<sbalneav> I'll try that tonight.
<sbalneav> what packages did you install?
<LaserJock> well, it was kinda messy
<LaserJock> just because of an Ubuntu problem
<LaserJock> I got moin off of their website
<LaserJock> http://moinmo.in/DesktopEdition
<LaserJock> that gives you the directions
<russell_nash> sbalneav, where would you like me to email the .xsession-error file?
<LaserJock> the problem was that it couldn't find the python-xml package (make sure that's installed)
<LaserJock> so in the wikiserverconfig.py file I added:
<sbalneav> russell_nash: sbalneav@alburg.net
<LaserJock> import sys
<LaserJock> sys.path.insert(0,'/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/oldxml')
<LaserJock> and then it worked
<russell_nash> erm, think i know where now, sorry:-[
<sbalneav> Fund the problem?
<sbalneav> found?
<russell_nash> if you mean me, no, i still have the problem i will email the file to you, thanks once again for your help.
<sbalneav> np
<LaserJock> back
<LaserJock> RichEd: are we set up for a time?
<RichEd> stgraber / LaserJock / sbalneav : does 3:00 pm (in 25 mins) work for you ?
<LaserJock> yep
<RichEd> and ogra_ if he wants to join : application bundling / menu categorisation
<RichEd> we'll just run it from a coffee table across IRC and gobby
<RichEd> rooms seem to be full :/
 * ogra_ is in a private meeting at 3pm
<ogra_> (and i'm completely booked til end of the day)
<RichEd> ogra_: no problemo
<RichEd> stgraber: you alert ? can we meet up now ... I'm in the plenary room ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: you editing the strategy doc?
<RichEd> LaserJock: just saved in 4 mins ago ... put in the branding decisions from yesterday
<RichEd> should be available for edit
 * RichEd hunts down stgraber ... da dum da dum da dum ... [ background #jaws soundtrack ]
<stgraber> RichEd: I'm at a QA meeting
<RichEd> ah ... you free in one hour ?
<RichEd> LaserJock: you free in one hour ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> RichEd: maybe we can start working through some stuff and stgraber can come in an hour
<LaserJock> I really feel like we need to get this thing done and it's gonna take a bit of time
<stgraber> RichEd: yeah, I should be free in an hour. There is a regression handling discussion in the QA room but I'm far from essential
<LaserJock> RichEd: perhaps I should give a little on what I'm wanting to do with the doc
<RichEd> LaserJock: agreed ... i'll hive off the branding considerations and just leave decisions in the strat doc
<RichEd> then we can keep it clear as to: this is what education and ubuntu is about, this is where we are heading with these agreed paramaters
<LaserJock> my purpose was to create a doc where 1) people can figure out what we're all about
<RichEd> the past can go onto a link for the deeply curious to follow if they have too much time and coffee
<LaserJock> 2) as a guide to which we can point to when we're unsure how to proceed (i.e. what are our goals and purposes, how do we resolve conflict)
<RichEd> give me 5 min edit time on the strat doc to make the cleft#
<LaserJock> I think we need a separate page for the spec
<LaserJock> so we can discuss how to implement and have a place for the discussion
<RichEd> LaserJock: refresh please ... moved to bottom of page, trimmed the fat/chat
<LaserJock> ok, cool
<RichEd> One point I think I will have a battle to fight for is calling the CD Edubuntu ...
<RichEd> I think the preference would be to keep the CD as the Ubuntu Education Add-on ...
<RichEd> The reason behind this is that there is in essence no (one) Edubuntu desktop
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> it's a difficult one
<RichEd> The Edubuntu desktop with the preselected bundle of old was very much a junior educgtion level ... great for kiddies, but not taken  seriously for Senior Schools or Universitiers
<LaserJock> I don't mind Ubuntu Education Add-on I don't think if I work on some thing
<LaserJock> the problem is that it's really hard to define the CD, etc.
<RichEd> The move is to dispell the old view and to get across the message:
<RichEd> * Install Ubuntu and you have a great base
<RichEd> * Stick in the Add-on CD and then you can beef up your desktop with a range of choices ... from pre-school to University
<RichEd> *** all on the same great platform
<rockstar> Why don't you just call it "Disc you put in after you install Ubuntu if you want all the stuff for educational purposes"
 * RichEd has been called to a quick meeing ... back in 10/15 mins
<RichEd> rockstar: Ubuntu Education Add-On CD
<RichEd> same thing no ?
<rockstar> RichEd, I've just noticed lots of talk about what the CD should be called.  Call it something and let people be confused.
#edubuntu 2008-12-10
<LaserJock> I've been thinking of how to think of it
<LaserJock> if we call it "Edubuntu"
<LaserJock> then Ubuntu + Edubuntu = something
<LaserJock> if it's Ubuntu Education Addon then we get
<LaserJock> Ubuntu + Ubuntu Education Addon = Edubuntu
<LaserJock> I guess maybe it should be Ubuntu + Education Addon
<LaserJock> Ubuntu is maybe redundant in the second one
<stgraber> RichEd: where are you ?
<LaserJock> but I'm sort of warming up to the  idea of considering the CD as secondary to the "bundles"
<LaserJock> maybe we could even call it: Educational Bundle CD
<LaserJock> not sure if that's any better than Addon
<RichEd> stgraber: where we met yesterday ... outside the room
<RichEd> LaserJock: but when does an Ubuntu desktop become Edubuntu ... if you have added 1 edu app, or 3, or a bundle ?
<LaserJock> right, that's a problem
<RichEd> Is a college who installs Ubuntu and adds 6 higher level edu applications using Ubuntu or Edubuntu ?
<LaserJock> either/both? :-)
<RichEd> Ubuntu problems / issues should belong to Ubuntu Support .... the education applications & education user issues belong to the Edubuntu "community"
<LaserJock> ok, so you think we should stick with Ubuntu Educational Addon?
<stgraber> well, edubuntu is the project name which goal is to provide bundles of education applications
<RichEd> That is why I see that there is no Edubuntu desktop ... simply Ubuntu, with education related applications provided by the Edubuntu project
<stgraber> so no, I don't think we can say that someone is running edubuntu as it's just Ubuntu + 1->all edu packages
<LaserJock> ok, one sec
<LaserJock> everybody go to http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/
<RichEd> and relationships with Education upstream etc. are all done through the edubuntu community
<LaserJock> this illustrates my problem
<stgraber> we used to be able to say that as we had an edubuntu distro, so someone was using edubuntu when he installed using the CD
<LaserJock> on that page for Hardy and Intrepid, it says "Ubuntu Educational Edition"
<RichEd> Ubuntu Educationl Addon ? (not Educational ... that's a tad clumsy with the "al")
<RichEd> oops sorry ...
<LaserJock> oops, Education Edition
<LaserJock> it's Ubuntu Education Edition
<LaserJock> now if you click on that
<RichEd> Ubuntu Education Add-on
<LaserJock> for Intrepid
<LaserJock> it says "Ubuntu educational add-on CD"
<LaserJock> and the name of the iso is "edubuntu-8.10-addon-amd64.iso"
<stgraber> :)
<LaserJock> my point is that there is *no* consistency at *all*
<LaserJock> each thing is a different name
<RichEd> I think that may have been Oliver's grammar chioce ...
<RichEd> * Ubuntu Education Add-On CD
<RichEd> * Edubuntu Project
<RichEd> * Edubuntu Community
<RichEd> ---
<RichEd> That's my take
<RichEd> And yes, we need to clear up the amibguation and clutter
<RichEd> ?? comments ?
<LaserJock> I like Education
<LaserJock> RichEd: is Edubuntu Addon Cd out?
<LaserJock> do we need to keep Ubuntu somewhere in the name?
<stgraber> sounds like an addon for edubuntu to me
<LaserJock> good point
<RichEd> Yes I think so ... was about to make the same comment as stgraber
<LaserJock> RichEd: do you like something other than "Addon"
<LaserJock> I'm sort of not very fond of it
<LaserJock> to be honest
<stgraber> yeah, addon sounds a bit "unofficial"
<RichEd> LaserJock: suggested alternatives ?
<LaserJock> well, I wondered about "Bundle"
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Education Bundle CD
<RichEd> but a bundle is singular, and the CD will offer 3/4 bundles and also singular install your own selection option
<RichEd> so again not a great fit
<LaserJock> well, heck we could just get rid of that part altogether
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Education CD
<RichEd> mrmm ... you got a point
<stgraber> yeah :)
<LaserJock> it doesn't really imply anything but Education on Ubuntu
<LaserJock> which I think is what we want
<RichEd> my thinking proof testing is consider other "potential value packs" using the same naming style:
<RichEd> Ubuntu Multimedia CD
<RichEd> Ubuntu Education CD
<RichEd> Ubuntu Financials CD
<RichEd> so that all works quite cleanly
 * RichEd gives a ++ for Ubuntu Education CD
<stgraber> +1
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok, so can you work on getting that done?
<LaserJock> although, that's not the full picture
<RichEd> yep ... I'll change it on the strategy page, and will ask ogra to make back-changes ...
<RichEd> LaserJock: ??
<LaserJock> what about the actual CD name
<LaserJock> edubuntu-8.10-addon-amd64.iso is the current
<LaserJock> would we do ubuntu-education-8.10-amd54.iso ?
<stgraber> ubuntu-education-8.10-amd64.iso
<LaserJock> I think we need to retain the edubuntu directory structure
<LaserJock> but I don't *think* that should cause any problems
 * ogra notes a ping ... 
<ogra> ?
<LaserJock> I think the concept that the Edubuntu project/community produce the Ubuntu Education CD should be fairly easy to see
<LaserJock> ogra: we're discussing the .iso naming stuff
<LaserJock> trying to clarify/clean it up a bit
<ogra> LaserJock, right, what back-changes is RichEd talking about ?
<LaserJock> ogra: we're going for Ubuntu Education CD and ubuntu-education-8.10-amd64.iso
<RichEd> ogra: just the naming on the download pages for 8.10 and 8.04
<ogra> note that my approval for edu stuff from davidm is limited t only few hours for jaunty to make changes to the metapackages (this was requested in advance)
<ogra> RichEd, can you file a bug for that and subscribe the ubuntu-cdimage team to it ?
<ogra> (probably even assign it to them)
<LaserJock> subscribe me
<RichEd> ogra: sure ... we need direction, not chunks of your time :) thanks
<ogra> well, ubuntu-cdimage is the team implementing it
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> if I somehow found some time I could probably write the patch
 * ogra goes back to intel discussion
<LaserJock> but I'd like to stay in the loop in any case
<LaserJock> RichEd: all good then on that?
<RichEd> yep ...
<RichEd> Okay ... we need to get onto the bundle spec ... I have another meeting in 45 mins
<LaserJock> yep
<stgraber> me too
<LaserJock> what's the URL for that?
<RichEd> LaserJock / stgraber have you been through the spec
<RichEd> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/UbuntuJaunty/EducationAppBundles
<RichEd> What I really need today is an idea of how the menu work LaserJock is working on cuold/would affect the spec I have created
<stgraber> yeah, just had a quick look
<LaserJock> RichEd: are you only wanting age-related bundles?
<RichEd> We'll need a session tomorrow over here with someone from the foundation team who would actually do the work
<LaserJock> that part I'm confused about
<RichEd> LaserJock: subject could be an option, but then subject = science bundle might have a 6 year old science look at the stars mommy up to molecular modelling
<LaserJock> well
<RichEd> so does that make sense as a bundle ?
<LaserJock> generally I would start splitting into areas at secondary level
<LaserJock> so I would do like Pre-school, Primary, Secondary (with areas), Tertiary (with areas)
<RichEd> LaserJock: so what about ...
<RichEd> Bundles : Pre-school, Primary, Secondary, Tertiary
<LaserJock> if we have a whole Education category having more than 4 entries would seem to be ok
<RichEd> Installs into [ Applications ] [ [ Education ] ] [ [ [ Subject ] ] ]
<RichEd> Cos surely the teacher would select All Secondary School Apps
<RichEd> But in class, they want the kids to find apps under menu categories ?
<LaserJock> hmm, right
<LaserJock> it's somewhat unlikely that a machine would be installed *just* for 6th grade science for instance
<RichEd> so that would make it clean if we went with: Bundles Spec ... Canonical Desktop / Foundation
<RichEd> Menu Category Spec ... laser and/or Canonical Desktop / Foundation
 * RichEd is just thnking aloud here ... not deciding]
<stgraber> administer users	
<stgraber> oops
<RichEd> of course, the creation of the Menu Sub-Categories is kind of a boundary issue across both specs
<LaserJock> RichEd: do you know much of the technical details about how these "bundles" are going to get implemented?
<LaserJock> my thoughts go along the lines of
<RichEd> LaserJock: matt zimmerman said it was trivial, but i am not too clued up on the tech how
<LaserJock> the Add/Remove category with menu items can be done in gnome-app-install
<LaserJock> *but* you need something for the menu items to *do*
<LaserJock> I would suggest edubuntu metapackages
<LaserJock> we can then have those metapackages also contain menuing information
<RichEd> "Add/Remove category with menu items" please clarify ?
<LaserJock> ok, so we use .desktop/.directory files to add the "Education" menu with the bundle menu entries
<LaserJock> we do this already on the Addon CD
<stgraber> yeah, simply shipping some xdg menu files, you can then restrict access to these menus based on unix groups access to the files in /etc/xdg/menus/
<LaserJock> but when a person clicks on Pre-school, *something* has to be installed
<RichEd> my high level simplified view was that the bundle just preselected the "category apps to install" as though the user had done each one themselves ... then all proceeds as if it was manual
<RichEd> is that too silly a concept ?
<LaserJock> well, it doesn't exactly work that way currently
<RichEd> explain the divergance ?
<LaserJock> you'd have to hack up Add/Remove quite a bit to do that
<LaserJock> well, in Add/Remove each entry corresponds to 1 package
<LaserJock> when a user chooses the entry the corresponding package is installed
<RichEd> LaserJock: ^ nope I disagree
<RichEd> when a user chooses the entry the corresponding package is *selected*
<LaserJock> well, right
<RichEd> then they can go to games ... select others
<RichEd> then they can go to tool ames ... select others
<stgraber> so we'd need an extra category like "Education bundles" with the various meta-packages in them
<RichEd> then they can go to tools ... select others
<LaserJock> but it's a 1:1 correspondence between entry and package
<LaserJock> is my point
<LaserJock> not 1:how many ever you want
<RichEd> then ... they click apply ... then it says ... "the following changes will be made"
<RichEd> so the route I was thinking is that the bundle choice simply does the "checkboxing" and then it moves to "the following changes will be applied"
<RichEd> one app per checkbox
<LaserJock> well, I'm saying that's quite a bit of hacking
<LaserJock> for something we can already do with no changes
<RichEd> okay ... can you perhaps fill out the design section on the spec ... the way you would see it ?
<LaserJock> plus we can use that to do things like menus, etc.
<RichEd> i'll need to get someone in from the team who will actually carry this out for us in a session tomorrow
<LaserJock> I already have ~ 6 "bundles" on the Addon CD *and* have the Add/Remove bits
<LaserJock> essentially I believe I've implemented your spec, we just need to make some changes :-)
<RichEd> so today is a prep as far as we can get ... then tomorrow is "this is what we need, this is our suggestion, how would you like to apply it"
<RichEd> LaserJock: so what is left ... just some string, glue and blue tack ... with a lick of paiin
<RichEd> paint
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I only do the Add/Remove stuff on the CD
<LaserJock> we'd need Ubuntu to have my data package installed so you can get at it from Ubuntu
<LaserJock> and we'd want to define the bundles better
<LaserJock> but in Intrepid I changed them to use seeds so it's much easier to do
<LaserJock> but I'm pretty sure most of all the technical bits have already been done in Edubuntu
<LaserJock> we just need to get some of that moved to Ubuntu and better bundle definitions
<LaserJock> if we then hook that up with the menus I think it might end up pretty cool
<LaserJock> RichEd: I just don't want you guys to end up duplicating work we've already done and we're likely to duplicate anyway
<LaserJock> because I've already got a pre-school "bundle", I just call it Young
<RichEd> LaserJock: points taken ... but here is the deciding factor
<RichEd> It is essential that [1] we can offer the install bundles option for Jaunty, in and working
<RichEd> [2] we can promise this now to decision makers ... and know that it will happen
<LaserJock> right
<RichEd> So, if we have the edubuntu resources who can & will deliver ... great
<LaserJock> well, I'll put it this way
<LaserJock> I'm less concerned about *who* does the work than where  it's done
<RichEd> If we don't, then canonical will satisfy the use case using internal devs
<LaserJock> since Edubuntu *already* wants to make those bundles and has a good start I don't think it's wise to duplicate
<LaserJock> but I understand the concern about making sure it's done
<RichEd> Background: We have people promoting Ubuntu in India, and the guys (decision makers) are hovering between building their own distro, or going ubuntu
<RichEd> Simple things like this bundling may tip the scales#
<RichEd> So we need 100% certainty that it can be promised
<RichEd> 100% delivery on the trivial bundles is preferred to 95% delivery on bundles + menus + teacher menu editor
<RichEd> ^ that is all just a reality check ... not any comment in any way ... please understand
<RichEd> :) okay
<RichEd> So how do we proceed ... with conviction ?
<LaserJock> well, I say first put down the technical details of what needs to get done
<LaserJock> do the spec
<LaserJock> then we can figure out who's gonna implement
<LaserJock> IMO anyway
<stgraber> yeah
<RichEd> So would it maker most sense for me to flesh out the spec a bit more, and then have a session scheduled tomorrow where we can get voice going, and get someone from Canonical internal tech to be present ?
<RichEd> then LaserJock can comment on his work and approach, and agreement might be reached on how to go forward and with who doing it
<RichEd> A risk is that our own homebrew approach may not be approved to go into add/remove ... so we need a blessing or a nae before we leave UDs
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I mean, not to be a jerk, but I have more power to make the changes
<LaserJock> unless you get mvo to do it
<RichEd> (seeing as this is now an Ubuntu spec / impact ... and not just an Ubuntu)
<LaserJock> I'm an Ubuntu Core Developer after all
<LaserJock> I don't need permission per se
 * RichEd bows down in respect to LaserJock and thanks for the work he does and will do ... (seriously) ... but what I need to cover my gonads from getting ripped off is a guarantee
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I'm just saying I can put the details of how to do it in the spec
<RichEd> so ... methinks ... LaserJock & mvo in a session tomorrow ... would that be clean ?
<LaserJock> and if the internal person can upload then fine, no problems
<RichEd> and if LaserJock can do the spec design before tomorrow, i'll throw ion a free t-shirt
<RichEd> mvo looks kindly on our education requests, and I think LaserJock / stgraber  / mvo / RichEd would be a good quorum
<LaserJock> yeah, I worked with mvo to get our current Addon CD stuff
<RichEd> then we are pretty much covered for design, approval, and 100% delivery
<stgraber> yeah, I don't think it should be any problem to have mvo do the change especially as it's something Canonical wants:)
<RichEd> okay ... i need to go to a one-on-one meeting now ... end of session in 2 mins ...
<pygi> sbalneav, ping!
<pygi> hello RichEd, long time no see
<pygi> nubae, ping
<RichEd> hey pygi
 * stgraber has to go too
<RichEd> mvo either doing the change or blessing it is a good confidence booster
<LaserJock> yes, mvo is the *man* when it comes to Add/Remov
 * RichEd has to dash
<RichEd> before I go ... seen this anyone ?
<RichEd> http://scratch.mit.edu/
<RichEd> any comments would be appreciated
<LaserJock> I think that's a Squeak app
<LaserJock> or maybe not
<RichEd> yep ... squeak want to bundle into (Ed)Ubuntu ... MIT want to collaborate ... I need to know how much of a use it is to edu in the real world
<LaserJock> squeak is big
<LaserJock> we just have licensing issues
<LaserJock> hopefully it'll work out though
<LaserJock> Sugar wants Squeak too
<RichEd> okay ... thanks
<sbalneav> Evening all
<LaserJock> what we need is to get Squeak people interested in Ubuntu
<sbalneav> Hello pygi
<LaserJock> it's a mess to maintain, I'm not particularly wanting to jump on it :-)
<pygi> sbalneav, I hear you're reviving our old project ;)
<sbalneav> Which, the handbook? :)
<Mario__> sbalneav, yup
<sbalneav> Yeah, well, the handbook continued on as upstream LTSP:
<sbalneav> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
<sbalneav> Now we're going to rip out the LTSP bits from Edubuntu handbook, and focus on Edubuntu-ey bits, since LTSP's found an upstream home :)
<Guevara> hi everybody
<sbalneav> Morning all
<nubae> morning sbalneav
<nubae> well evening here
<LaserJock> RichEd!
<RichEd> LaserJock: !!
<RichEd> RichEd & LaserJock run towards each other in slow motion ... dramatic reunion music
<LaserJock> lol
<stgraber> :)
<LaserJock> RichEd: I was thinking last night about the bundles
<LaserJock> RichEd: I reread the spec in detail and see some non-trivial things
<RichEd> LaserJock: I was chatting to mvo about the last night about the bundles
<LaserJock> heh
<RichEd> LaserJock: fill me in please ... where are the showstoppers
<LaserJock> well, for 1 you have to push the bundles to the top of the list
<LaserJock> right now Add/Remove just sort alphabetically
<LaserJock> you'd have to add a flag to the bundle .desktop to make them "float to the  top"
<LaserJock> 2) showing the list of apps to install and letting the user deselect some is not trivial at all
<LaserJock> however
<LaserJock> I thought of an alternative when I was thinking of all this
<RichEd> re 2) the normal install process does that ... as per my use case ... hence my view of just using the bundle option to do a background macro select mimicing the user clicks#
 * RichEd listens
<LaserJock> well,  I'm not saying 2 can't be done
<LaserJock> I'm saying it's currently not in the UI
<LaserJock> so mvo would either need to do it for everything or special-case the bundles
<LaserJock> here's my thinking though
 * RichEd listens more intently
<LaserJock> I'm thinking that perhaps we're trying to stuff too much into Add/Remove
<LaserJock> maybe it's not the best place to do this
<LaserJock> what if we created a new menu item *just* for install Edu software
<LaserJock> in System -> Administration we could have a "Install Educational Software" or "Educational Software Installer" entry
<LaserJock> that would call up a *customized* Add/Remove window
<LaserJock> that is now categorized not like "Applications, Education, Graphics ..."
<ball> Can Edubuntu be added to a stand-alone desktop machine, or do I need Ubuntu Server?
<LaserJock> ball: for an LTSP server use Ubuntu Alternate Cd
<RichEd> ball: Edubuntu is now an Unbuntu install + Education Add-On CD to get the education apps
<LaserJock> ball: for just the Educational software, yes, you just need an Ubuntu Desktop installation
<ball> LaserJock: Is that the Ubuntu Server Alternative CD?
<LaserJock> ball: no
<RichEd> or you can use Ubuntu + Add/Remove
<LaserJock> ball: just plain Ubuntu Alternate CD
<ball> ok
<RichEd> LaserJock: but that's not where the user would stumble across it ... mr joe average goes to Add/Remove ... we want to hit him there
<ball> Will it work with Xubuntu, or is Gnome required?
<RichEd> LaserJock: mdz felt it was trivial to implement during a high-level discussion via Add/Remove ...
<LaserJock> ball: well, if you install the edubuntu-desktop package it's going to pull in some Gnome stuff, but you can install it on Xubuntu
<LaserJock> RichEd: well, trivial to implement, I'm just not sure it's the best way to go about it
<ball> LaserJock: Thanks.  If I can fix my hardware problem, I'll give that ago in the early hours of tomorrow morning.
<ball> ...or perhaps late tonight.
<LaserJock> RichEd: I think System -> Administration would be a decent place to put it
<LaserJock> though I recognize that it's a bit of a confusion to have both Add/Remove and this second install windows
<LaserJock> we do that already with Synaptic, but perhaps 3 is too much
<LaserJock> RichEd: what I like about this separate UI is that we're free to play with the menu
<LaserJock> RichEd: for what we're doing I think sticking everything in the "Education" menu is too restrictive
<RichEd> LaserJock: see above ... joe public goes to Add/Remove to check out the software available ... we want him to stumble across the bundles there and go ... like hey shew wow ... i gott get me some of that
<LaserJock> RichEd: I know, i know
<LaserJock> it's a difficult thing
<RichEd> we need him/her to find it *without* being told or needing to find documentation, or even understanding en glish properly
<LaserJock> I personally don't like Add/Remove all that much because of that sort of issue
<LaserJock> people get pointed to Add/Remove but it only represents a fraction of the software that's available
<RichEd> LaserJock: a slice of bread is better than a theoretical optimised non-real vapour loaf of raisin bread ...
<LaserJock> it's stuck to this "must reflect the Applications menu" model that doesn't give us any flexability
<RichEd> if Add/Remove is where people go, then that is where we need to be
<RichEd> optimal or not
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok, but I'd put to you that "Install Educational Software" is *much* better than "Add/Remove ..."
<LaserJock> they know *exactly* what that means
<RichEd> if the whole add/remove is one day optimised, then we'll get optimised with that
<RichEd> LaserJock: there is no reason why we could not have a System / Install Edu Softyware *as well*
<LaserJock> perhaps
<RichEd> But we *need* a trivial, low level, average me poke around to see what do I get, Add/Remove option#
<LaserJock> well, I know
<LaserJock> I just think that my proposal is the most trivial and most straight forward, both to the user and the person implementing
<LaserJock> but I do acknowledge the point that Add/Remove is more widely know as the place to get software
<LaserJock> even if I disagree that it should be :-)
<ball> Is Edubuntu mostly a collection of binary packages?
<ball> ...that relate to education?
<LaserJock> RichEd: the thing about doing a separate UI is that we can do a whole lot better at presenting software to people
<LaserJock> ball: basically yes
<ball> So why not have a metapkg in Add/Remove and an Education menu to access the apps?
 * RichEd notes in the record that LaserJock has a better cleaner neater now new & improved solution, but gets down on his knees and begs him to please help with the use case requiring an Add/Remove education bundle choice
<LaserJock> ball: well, we're trying to get a bit more fine-grained selection
<LaserJock> RichEd: well, do note that my idea *uses* Add/Remove
<LaserJock> we're just providing a "shortcut" to go straight to a better Education view
<ball> LaserJock: right, well the metapkg could let you add/remove everything, but the individual packages would also be listed there individually wouldn't they?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> but we're trying to create several metapackages and get them shown to the user in a good way
<ball> do you need a parametapkg? :-)
<LaserJock> heh
<ball> How about just prefixing the name of Edubuntu metapkgs with, say 'Edubuntu '
<ball> ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok, so we can start by implementing the original spec, though I don't think it's as easy/nice, and get feedback on my idea for Jaunty+1?
<LaserJock> I think it's just kinda ugly to special-case the bundles
<LaserJock> I doubt mvo likes that very much
<ball> hello HedgeMage
<LaserJock> RichEd: another alternative I put on the spec page was to create a separate category for the bundles, something like "Education Bundles" that would separate bundles from individual apps
<ball> Kickin' Kiwi ?
<LaserJock> I don't like it very much, but it's something I thought of
<HedgeMage> hi, ball
<RichEd> LaserJock: could be an option, but do Ubuntu want Education to take up 2 Add/Remove categories ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: well, that's why I didn't like the idea
<LaserJock> it's hard to not be intrusive, but also get stuff out there for people
<LaserJock> RichEd: one other idea would be to utilize apt-url more
<LaserJock> in fact that could be a really rockin' addition
<RichEd> LaserJock: sorry to keep going around in circles back to the same point, but we need to have a way of putting an option to install education bundles by school level in the face of the casual user ... and the casual user goes to Add/Remove to see what apps they can install
<LaserJock> right, but now I've got a 3-pronged approach
<RichEd> All the ++ and bells and whistles are secondary to the completion of that ... if we try to wrap up perfection now ... we lose the base requirement
<LaserJock> RichEd: honestly I don't think people use Add/Remove as much as they use their web browser
<LaserJock> here's what we do though:
<LaserJock> 1) Add/Remove entries in "Education" for bundles, implement current spec more-or-less
<LaserJock> 2) Customized Add/Remove used on Ubuntu Education CD (what we do know but will use bundles)
<RichEd> ^ "as much as their web browse" explain that please for my edification ?
<LaserJock> 3) ubuntu.com/education and/or edubuntu.org pages using apt-url that describe contents of bundles, apps
<LaserJock> RichEd: in Ubuntu we can install software from a web browser
<LaserJock> RichEd: people will naturally look for software online
<LaserJock> so we hit them there as well
<LaserJock> I think you'd actually get more installs via web than you would via Add/Remove
<LaserJock> but we can hit them all really, no reason not to
<ball> hitting people is bad ;-)
<LaserJock> heh
 * RichEd hits mr ball in the ****s for facaetious comments ;)
<RichEd> "in Ubuntu we can install software from a web browser" -> where do you mean specifically ... I need to understand what you mean
<LaserJock> RichEd: open up firefox and type in apt://gcompris in your location bar
<ball> That's not the usual way of installing software on Ubuntu though afaik
<LaserJock> no, but there's no reason we can't use it here
<ball> ...though a showcase/galary thing might be neat.
<LaserJock> we already have some pages to showcase
<ball> (more digestable than Add/Remove)
<LaserJock> we want to do more
<LaserJock> so if we hook those up we're getting even better coverage, IMO
<RichEd> LaserJock: that is not really a browsable way of seeing what is available, and I doubt that > 2% of average education users have ever tried that out for themselves
<LaserJock> I'm not suggesting using it as a replacement for Add/Remove
<RichEd> you need to know the package name beforehand as well
<LaserJock> RichEd: no, that's why you make links in an HTML page
<LaserJock> if I make up a webpage that describes gcompris, gives screenshot, user testimonials for that matter
<RichEd> that's a good idea, but let's file that under things to do once we have got add/remove bundles working
<LaserJock> then do a link: apt://gcompris they can just click the link and install
<RichEd> everyone has an add/remove menu item
<LaserJock> sure, I'm not taking that away
<RichEd> not everyone will find the gallery page
<LaserJock> but in terms of reaching people I think you're more likely to get people on a web page
<RichEd> noted ... but can we take away all other options apart from add/remove until we have add/remove sorted ?
<LaserJock> so it's something to look into, especially as we already need pages that list/describe the software
 * RichEd does the get down on the knees thinga again
<LaserJock> RichEd: what I'm describing is a larger-scale spec
<LaserJock> RichEd: don't worry
<LaserJock> I'm just thinking large scale for a bit
<LaserJock> 3 prong approach
<LaserJock> but for today we're looking at 1 prong
<LaserJock> so if mvo can do that add/remove changes needed, I can provide the bundles
<LaserJock> s/that/the/
<RichEd> okay ... i need to grab him to chat ... i discussed getting some of his time today and he was okay with that ...
<RichEd> let me ping him now ...
<LaserJock> that'd be great
<stgraber> RichEd: I'm free most afternoon, I'm staying in the QA room but can join you to talk to mvo
<ball> I made a list today of school districts near me.  I need to fire off a stream of resumes to them.
<ball> I would like to be able to walk into an interview with a copy of Edubuntu under my arm and an idea of what's included and how it's used.
<RichEd> ball: think of it like this ...
<RichEd> desktop: Ubuntu base install ... and a whack of education applications available to select as options to drop onto your desktop
<RichEd> some edu apps supported officially, some supported by the community
<ball> ...can also be deployed via LTSP, right?
<ball> s/deployed/used/
<RichEd> server: Ubuntu base install + LTSP + a whack of education applications available to select as options to drop onto your "desktop image"
<LaserJock> ball: LTSP is a desktop server, so in general what you can do on the desktop you can do via LTSP
<stgraber> LTSP just provides remote access to an Ubuntu box
<RichEd> each workstation will get the same education desktop when they boot
<stgraber> so yes, you can just install the edubuntu bundles on the server and all the thin clients will use them
<RichEd> LTSP benefit (primary) is one image to maintain ... never any need for a workstation upgrade / new app install ... rebnoot & then the image is now the new one#
<ball> Okay.  I recently set up Ubuntu Server with multiple X desktops served up via VNC, but I understand LTSP uses X11
<ball> I would have tried it by now were it not for a couple of unfortunate hardware failures.
<LaserJock> it's a bit more than just X11 forwarding too
<LaserJock> things like being able to plug in a usbdrive in the client and having it show up on their desktop (which is really the server)
<LaserJock> plus no need for hard drives in the client
<LaserJock> that's always a plus :-)
<stgraber> sound support too (both input and output), ... are things you won't get with VNC
<stgraber> VNC is also unable to send 3D data, XV video, ...
 * ball nods
<ball> Is sound done via NAS?
<stgraber> nope, pulseaudio
<ball> Hmm.. interesting
<Studi8> I have an idea for a new education software, where can I post it?
<ball> Don't post it, write it! :-)
<ball> hello Eghie
<Studi8> Ok, i'm becoming teacher and serached for a video player which has a bookmark feature
<Eghie> hello ball
<Studi8> and found none....
<Studi8> I'ts important, because you usually show the kids a snipped of 5mins out of a movie
<Eghie> Studi8: miro comes to mind
<Eghie> http://www.getmiro.com/
<Studi8> ok, i'm trying it out
<ball> That's a really good idea.
<Studi8> hmm, seems to be a web video player, but I didn't find any bookmark functionality
<Studi8> with bookmarks I mean like: start video.avi at 5:33
<Studi8> so U prepare the bookmark, save it on USB stick, go to school, open it and play the movie from the right timestamp
<Eghie> ok
<Studi8> Do u have any Idea?
<ball> Only thing that springs to my mind is to use a video editor to extract the clip you're after and then either save that as a separate file, or stick it on a presentation slide (if your software enables that)
<Eghie> aren't there any scriptable video players?
<Eghie> maybe VLC is scriptable?
<Eghie> that whould mean an interface to the videoplayer which is scriptable
 * ball shrugs
<Studi8> The problem with both solutions are: non-tech savy teachers won't use ist
<Eghie> well, I good interface on top of it, will make a good difference
<ball> That's a valid point.
<Eghie> a
<Studi8> yes, that would be a solution. Or is it possible to make a new simple GUI for an existing player?
<ball> Studi8: if it's scriptable perhaps.
<Studi8> hmm, now's the question: is it simplyer to take the codebase of an existing player and modify it or making a scripting Interface?
<Studi8> sorry for my bad english...
<Eghie> doesn't matter
<Eghie> but VLC is by definition scriptable
<Eghie> as in, the player is designed to be scriptable
<Eghie> for example, see this page: http://www.videolan.org/doc/play-howto/en/ch04.html
<LaserJock> RichEd: you here?
<Studi8> can the command vlc_seek be used?
<Eghie> vlc has :start-time=1
<Eghie> vlc myvideofile.avi :start-time=10
<Eghie> don't know if its working though
<Eghie> going to test it
<Eghie> DOES work
<Studi8> cool
<Eghie> cool
<Eghie> also :stop-time=10 does work :D
<Eghie> so, basicly, it's the following: vlc myvideofile.avi :start-time=#seconds :stop-time=#seconds
<Eghie> #seconds is seconds numeric without the # ofcourse
<Studi8> atm i'm in windows, couldn't find out the right syntax to start vlc F**ing Microsoft...
<Eghie> vlc.exe
<Eghie> "C:\Program Files\VideoLan\VLC\vlc.exe"
<Eghie> Studi8: use this under Windows http://pastie.org/336164
<Studi8> works :-)
<Eghie> so, basicly for now you can create those scripts to use it
<Eghie> but, it's not nice to do it that way
<Studi8> it needed a smart and simple gui
<ball> Wow... I had no idea there were so many school districts near me.
<Studi8> the nicest way would be to create a new vlc skin with this functionality included
<Studi8> it just needed an input field for the timestamps plus the usual buttons
<Eghie> Studi8: what OS do you use that client on?
<Studi8> i was a general idea, atm i'm not at a school
<Studi8> it
<Eghie> ok
<Eghie> well VLC is cross platform
<Studi8> yes
<Eghie> GTK is cross platform and not hard to program
<Eghie> could create a VLC skin, but are VLC skins usable to add functionality?
<Studi8> I'm going to search
<Studi8> https://trac.videolan.org/vlc/skineditor.html
<Studi8> doesn't seem to have a text input box
<Studi8> I searched the command list, there aint no command for time setting
<Eghie> guess it's a hidden settign
<Studi8> I have to sleep, I get up early tomorrow. Maybe I find an idea how to make it as easy as possible
<Studi8> My mail is: beda.gygli@gmx.ch
<Eghie> just stay joining this channel ;)
<Eghie> my mail is michiel [at sign and stuff] ict4schools.nl
<Studi8> ok, thanks :-) I will come back, just maybe not so soon, I have to finish writing a work atm
<Eghie> ok
<Eghie> will mail you some, if I have the time to work it out though
<Eghie> >>> "åå¼ï¼æ³¨åé¡µé¢é£ä¸ªéªè¯ç ï¼æ¯å¤§å°åä¸ææçï¼ä½ æ³å½ç¶ç¿»è¯æåºåå¤§å°åäºåå¼ï¼æ³¨åé¡µé¢é£ä¸ªéªè¯ç ï¼æ¯å¤§å°åä¸ææçï¼ä½ æ³å½ç¶ç¿»è¯æåºåå¤§å°åäºåå¼ï¼æ³¨åé¡µé¢é£ä¸ªéªè¯ç ï¼æ¯å¤§å°åä¸ææçï¼ä½ æ³å½ç¶ç¿»è¯æåºåå¤§å°åäº"
<Eghie> ehhm
<Eghie> wrong channel
<Studi8> ok :-)
<Studi8> n8
<Eghie> good n8
<nubae> LaserJock: ping
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah?
<nubae> I saw some mention of the name change back to ubuntu education yesterday...
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I think we sort of worked things out
<LaserJock> no Ubuntu Eductional Edition
<nubae> phew....
<LaserJock> or Ubuntu Education Edition
<LaserJock> we're calling the CD simply Ubuntu Education CD
<nubae> ok, and edubuntu, what happens to that?
<LaserJock> it stays the same
<LaserJock> Edubuntu (the community/project) produces the Ubuntu Education CD
<nubae> so that defines the community/project
<nubae> ok
<nubae> fine... I'll make the relevant changes to the site...
<nubae> was there a mention of the list of apps yet?
<LaserJock> well, we need to be sort of careful there
<LaserJock> since we've already got the Intrepid CDs out
<LaserJock> we need to be careful not to rename them
<nubae> isos, or cds?
<LaserJock> .isos
<nubae> ok... but they were called ubuntu education edition for intrepid
<LaserJock> it's not trivial to change
<LaserJock> well, they were called Ubuntu Education Edition, Ubuntu Eductional Addon, and Edubuntu :-)
<nubae> lol
<LaserJock> but that's not easy to change after the fact
<LaserJock> we'll have to think of some good was to transition back to sanity
<LaserJock> *ways
<nubae> I think just calling it all edubuntu is the sanest
<LaserJock> well, that has it's issues too
<LaserJock> being an addon gives problems
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Education CD seemed to be the most direct and clear name
<nubae> yeah I think its a shame there is no way to download a live desktop cd, even if its unofficial
<RichEd> hi nubae ... the list of apps is on : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/UbuntuJaunty/EducationAppBundle
<nubae> RichEd: thanks!
<LaserJock> RichEd!
<LaserJock> RichEd: did you find mvo?
<nubae> RichEd: thats an empty page
<RichEd> LaserJock: inj the process of moving my flight to friday ... gives me an extra day here
<RichEd> nubae: ?? try wif an "s" on da end
<nubae> yeah that worked, thanks
<RichEd> LaserJock: mvo briefed ... we are just looking for a time & whiteboard
<LaserJock> RichEd: regarding that list, I think we need to say what is in Ubuntu and Ubuntu Education CD
<nubae> thats a blueprint though, right?
<nubae> LaserJock: right
<LaserJock> RichEd: because Gnome Games is installed by default for instance. I think that's about the only one that would be stock Ubuntu right now
<nubae> a clear list of apps... I can put that on the website with nice cute little icons
<LaserJock> nubae: if you go to the attachments there is a spreadsheet
<RichEd> nubae: we still need to review the list of apps for sanity ... that's a shotgun blat extract from add/remove ... some may be low on kwalitee if you get my drift
<nubae> oh, ok
<LaserJock> RichEd: there are also some that aren't in Add/Remove
<LaserJock> we should probably have a "hit list" of apps that need to go into Add/Remove
<RichEd> but that is the basis of how we will categorise for the bundles ... draft # 0.1
<RichEd> nubae: see the app bundle wiki page spec:
<nubae> hmmm maybe I'm blind but I see no attachment
<LaserJock> nubae: up at the top of the page look for the "Attachements" link
<RichEd> See attachment for categorisation of applications attachment:Ubuntu-Edu-Apps-education-&-games.ods
<RichEd> Requires a review of:
<RichEd>    1. Any new Education applications for Jaunty
<RichEd>    2. Any removed Education applications for Jaunty
<RichEd>    3.
<RichEd>       A second eye to go over the School Classification levels to confirm 1st pass by RichEd
<RichEd>    4. A quality check to gauge which applications should be included or excluded
<RichEd> LaserJock: why did the attachment:file-name ... not make a link ... is my syntax furgled ?
<nubae> ok the .ods
<nubae> ok, can I edit that and upload again, or send to you RichEd?
<RichEd> fixed the link ... left off the [[brackets]]
<nubae> We need to discuss how sugar fits in there
<nubae> because sugar has its own activities
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure how that's gonna work right now
<RichEd> right LaserJock ... bought myself another day here ... so i'll track down mvo in the next hour or two
<LaserJock> I think right now with the spreadsheet it represents what's in the Add/Remove app
<nubae> I think its pretty important, I'm doing some deployments with it and it really needs definition and support
<nubae> yeah, but the sugar apps are packages...
<LaserJock> but not in Add/Remove
<nubae> sugar-* packagaes
<nubae> yeah they are
<LaserJock> are they?
<nubae> yes
<RichEd> nubae: sugar is in the stage of ealry relationship ... i don't think we can make any definitive statements yet ... other than we are working with them to build a support and relationship bridge
<nubae> But working towards Jaunty, we should have at least a first version, right?
<nubae> if we want bug fixes on those packages, it needs to be included
<LaserJock> I don't see Sugar in Add/Remove
<nubae> apt-get install sugar sugar-activities and apt-get sugar-wahteveactivity
<nubae> is that not included in add/remove default?
<LaserJock> that's not Add/Remove
<nubae> oh
<nubae> ok, my misunderstanding then
<LaserJock> Add/Remove uses a different mechanism
<nubae> what does it take to get it in add/remove?
<LaserJock> you need to add .desktop files with a special syntax
<nubae> that sounds trivial, can I do it... ?
<LaserJock> it works best with GUI apps (that was what it was designed for)
<nubae> hmmm, ok, kinda of get where you are coming from now
<nubae> sugar has its own app installation mech.
<LaserJock> Add/Remove was designed to be a super-simple way to install desktop programs
<nubae> ok, let me give u my scenario...
<nubae> I install LTSP
<nubae> I then install sugar as sessions for users...
<nubae> I could then use add/remove to install sugar apps
<nubae> but thats not for everyone I guess
<LaserJock> my guess is that if you're playing with LTSP you'll be installing via apt-get
<nubae> I would never get my school admins to do that no, I'd get them to use add/remove
<nubae> I would use apt-get... but not schools
<LaserJock> yeah, but I wouldn't generally thinking you'd be setting this up
<LaserJock> sorry, I would think *you* would set Sugar up
<nubae> I would.... but then the school admins would use regular ltsp server desktop to install stuff
<nubae> its much easier
<nubae> and supported by sugar ubuntu team
<nubae> otherwise u have to install activities for every single user
<nubae> for groups, u need apt-get or add/remove
<nubae> but maybe thats not for everyone I don't know... maybe most users wont do ltsp+sugar
<nubae> fine... so for Jaunty... we are including or not including sugar in a usable way?
<LaserJock> woah woah
<LaserJock> I didn't say *anything* about not including Sugar
<LaserJock> we're just working on some app bundling stuff
<LaserJock> and I'm uncertain how Sugar will fit into that
<LaserJock> but we're certainly shooting for including Sugar if we can
<LaserJock> it depends mostly on what we can get into Main
<nubae> ok, to me though, unless we have a sane way of installing the sugar apps, its useless
<LaserJock> depends on what "sane" is I guess
<nubae> add/remove
<LaserJock> then probably not, but maybe
<LaserJock> apt-get is a given
<LaserJock> as is synaptic
<nubae> right, but thats a given even without including in edubuntu
<LaserJock> I would think Synaptic would be "sane"
<RichEd> LaserJock: i've just played around with add/remove according to my use case target ... and I note the following:
<nubae> I'm thinking of teachers and school admins here
<RichEd> [ Apply the following changes? ]
<RichEd> Please take a final look through the list of applications that will be installed or removed.
<RichEd> ---
<LaserJock> nubae: right, is synaptic too hard to use?
<RichEd> it just gives a list, but there is no option to deselect your previous selections
<nubae> yes because it doesnt sufficiently describe the apps... add/remove puts them in categories, etc
<LaserJock> RichEd: right exactly, we need to change that
<LaserJock> nubae: hitting the search button and typing in sugar is too hard?
<LaserJock> I'm not telling you it isn't, I've just been doing this too long :-)
<RichEd> which clears that wish off the table (for now) and brings the metapackage option up to "best route"
<nubae> thats not the same :-)
<nubae> teachers and school admins dont even know apt-get exists
<nubae> well maybe school admins too
<nubae> do
<LaserJock> yeah, but synaptic is easy, isn't it?
<LaserJock> you don't have to touch a terminal
<RichEd> nubae & LaserJock: there are some changes afoot regarding "main" so wait for news about that ...
<nubae> but, take the case where a teacher needs a particular app for all students, hes not sure of the name
<LaserJock> RichEd: right, but that's unlikely to affect Jaunty, unless you're dropping us to Universe
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> try again :-)
<LaserJock> RichEd: right, but that's unlikely to affect Jaunty, unless you're dropping us to Universe
<LaserJock> if we're dropping to Universe we need to know ASAP
<RichEd> no not us ... just a snippet comment about main in general ... from ollie ... i am not sure what is afoot ... but will find out soon
<LaserJock> if it's just Archive Reorganization then we still need to worry about Jaunty I think
<nubae> this is my idea... for sugar, under add/remove we need sugar submenu, or put it all under education
<LaserJock> RichEd: it's a plan under works to remove the Main/Universe distinction and go with a more flavor-based approach
#edubuntu 2008-12-11
<LaserJock> RichEd: it'll be great for Edubuntu, IMO, but I don't think it'll be ready to go for Jaunty
 * RichEd choses strawberry
<LaserJock> nubae: we won't get a Sugar submenu
<nubae> lol
<nubae> ok, education then
<nubae> its just something to be able to tell teachers
<nubae> and there will be a lot of sugar deployments soon
<RichEd> nubae: regarding sugar ... assume that we are going to build a strong relationship with the sugar folk, and that we will ensure that there is a clear and simple way to get sugar available and in the easy reach of ubuntu folk
<LaserJock> well, we can add it, but it's not exactly the way Add/Remove is designed
<LaserJock> Add/Remove is designed to mimic what you see in the Applications menu
<RichEd> note that there is already a strong sugar relationship with ubuntu (tech wise) now we need to extend it to education (relationship wise)
<LaserJock> Sugar won't appear in the Applications menu I don't think so it's a tad misplaced
<nubae> RichEd: this is definitly in Canonicals interest... many schools want it.. as an example, next week I am going down to Graz to install sugar on ltsp along side their existing olpc xo pilot
<LaserJock> but of course we're adding bundles that won't either so I guess that argument is somewhat mute
<nubae> I just think it adds value and content
<LaserJock> I might have to brainstorm with mvo sum
<LaserJock> *some
<nubae> mvo?
<RichEd> nubae: to clarify as well from the company side, sugar folk tell me that the OEMs are asking for ubuntu under sugar ... so you can expect to have some corporate weight behind the requirement to get it available and within easy reach
<LaserJock> nubae: mvo is the guy that wrote Add/Remove and generally maintains our package managers
<LaserJock> Add/Remove was never meant to show *everything* that can be installed
<nubae> RichEd: ok, cool, from my side, we've been asked to certify edubuntu + sugar works on a variety of netbooks...
<RichEd> not just for ed(ubuntu) but for ubuntu and the folk making low spec machines (read netbook etc)
<LaserJock> it was just supposed to be a selection of GUI desktop apps
<nubae> RichEd: I get sent various netbooks to test for edubuntu and sugar...
<nubae> and report to the Austrian ministry of education
<LaserJock> RichEd: so I think the biggest requirement we need from mvo is getting the bundles to show up at the top of the Education menu
<nubae> LaserJock: +1
<LaserJock> RichEd: or do you still want to push for having the ability to deselect?
<RichEd> LaserJock: if the user can't do that now for other circumstances ... i can live without it
<LaserJock> the deselect thing is a bit problematic, though it should be feasible as long as the metapackages use Recommends
<LaserJock> I guess mvo can tell us
<RichEd> same thing via synaptic
<LaserJock> so like "Primary (supported)" and "Primary (unsupported)" ?
<LaserJock> that would correspond to edubuntu-primary-main and edubuntu-primary-universe metapackages
<LaserJock> the package descriptions could then give more info on what all that means :-)
<RichEd> LaserJock: i guess we can consider that ... although some of the bundles will be quite sparse if we go main only
<LaserJock> RichEd: well, we plan on fixing that too
<LaserJock> we have ~400 MB of space on the CD left
<RichEd> we could even get funky and make the bundle show up or not depending on whether the user has selected [ show all open source ] or [ show supported ]
<RichEd> LaserJock: as long as the other (newly promoted) apps get some decent support
<LaserJock> RichEd: that's *precicely* what would happen with the metapackages
<nubae> is there a definitive idea on how to classify metapackages now?
<LaserJock> if you drop the edubuntu-primary-universe package in Universe then it wall only show up with [ show all open source ]
<LaserJock> the problem is that edubuntu-primary-main would *also* show up :/
<LaserJock> nubae: in what way?
<LaserJock> RichEd: apps in Main right now don't get great support
<nubae> something simpler than that... ie... edubuntu-primary, edubuntu-maths, edubuntu-science
<LaserJock> if we can build the Edubuntu developer community hopefully that will turn around
<LaserJock> nubae: we need a way to separate what is supported and community-supported
<LaserJock> we can just stick -universe on the end of the ones that are community-supported
<nubae> is that really needed, just seems to complicate things
<nubae> naming wise
<LaserJock> well, two things can't have the same name
<LaserJock> and at the package dependency level we can't say "if some switch is thrown just install the Main ones"
<nubae> well it works from add/remove, which I believe is what most teachers will use
 * RichEd asks the guys to drop the Edubuntu concept where you are not talking about humans, the project, or community
<RichEd> so it is: ubuntu-education-primary
<LaserJock> RichEd: well, all the technical stuff is already "edubuntu"
<RichEd> ubuntu-education-primary-unsupported
<LaserJock> so I was just going with what we already have
<LaserJock> maybe we can shorten that down to ubuntu-edu
<LaserJock> ubuntu-education takes up a lot of space
<LaserJock> hence why edubuntu was always nice
<RichEd> LaserJock: i thought you said we havd 400MB
<RichEd> ;)
<LaserJock> and ufortunately education-* is already taken
<LaserJock> RichEd: heh
<RichEd> mkay re historical ... but we'll need to steer it graciously away from edubuntu ...
<RichEd> ubuntu-edu is a cool abbreviation
<RichEd> kind of like a dyslexic edubuntu '_
<LaserJock> :-)
 * Lns thinks ubuntu-edu rolls off the tongue much better than edubuntu 
<nubae> ubuntu-edu makes sense
<RichEd> "ubuntu is a great product" add the edu and it becomes a great product tailored for education
<nubae> its part of the new name and part of the old
<nubae> an easy transition
<Lns> much less confusing =)
<LaserJock> RichEd: I think if we have the two ubuntu-edu-primary and ubuntu-edu-primary-universe
<RichEd> that's the message ... which means we will get the support of the ubuntu community / core guys and edu is the sector expert project
<LaserJock> and then they showed up in Add/Remove as "Primary" and "Primary (community supported"
<RichEd> LaserJock: sounds good
<nubae> yeah that sounds good
 * RichEd needs a power socket ... gimme a min
<LaserJock> the individual apps in Add/Remove already say their support level so that's no worry
<LaserJock> I can work up the seeds for that no problem
<LaserJock> nubae: you need to learn how to work with seeds :-)
<nubae> Lns: did u ever get a conclusion on the tuxpaint/tuxmath freezing issue due to pulse on ltsp?
<nubae> LaserJock: yeah still confused about that :-)
<LaserJock> nubae: have you every used bzr?
<nubae> yeah use it for ltsp
<LaserJock> nubae: great, bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.jaunty
<Lns> nubae: Well, last I've heard from my people is that the --nosound (or equiv) for the apps takes care of the situation. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxpaint/+bug/269082 has the latest from me and others.. not sure whether the Intrepid patch (in bug comments) made it into hardy or not though.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269082 in tuxpaint "tuxpaint and other tux SDL driven apps slow down and/or freeze thin client terminals (ltsp)" [High,Confirmed]
<nubae> cool done...
<nubae> right but fixing with sounds I meant
<Lns> nubae: no update on that unfortunately
<nubae> cant really use childsplay gcompris without sound
<LaserJock> nubae: if you go into the edubuntu.jaunty dir there are a number of files
<nubae> LaserJock: u think addon-legacy makes any sense?
<LaserJock> those are the seeds
<LaserJock> it did at the time :-)
<nubae> ok, those files look surprisingly simple
<LaserJock> nubae: so if we want to update what goes in edubuntu-desktop we just change the right seed
<LaserJock> there are some complexities when it comes to dependencies, etc. but it's pretty straightforward
<nubae> gotcha... whats it mean if its in brakets?
<LaserJock> nubae: where do you see one?
<nubae> desktop-addon
<LaserJock> so like (gobby)
<nubae> yep
<LaserJock> that means to make it a Recommends instead of a Depends
<nubae> ok
<nubae> and these seeds only have to do with apt-get
<nubae> not with add/remove?
<LaserJock> nubae: well, the seeds have to do with metapackages
<LaserJock> so apt-get, etc. are free
<LaserJock> Add/Remove uses that .desktop mechanism
<LaserJock> so we just need to include the proper .desktop file and it'll show up
<nubae> ok, and where to the .desktop's get created?
<nubae> do
<LaserJock> we make them
<nubae> inside specific apps packages?
<LaserJock> they live in the packages yeah
<LaserJock> but for our bundle we put it in the metapacakge
<LaserJock> *metapackage
<LaserJock> and strictly our metapackage ceases to be a metapackage, but that's just a detail :-)
<nubae> where can I see an example of that?
<LaserJock> of a .desktop?
<nubae> yeah, inside metapackage
<LaserJock> well, for Add/Remove they all live in /usr/share/app-install/desktop/
<LaserJock> I have something like 2k of them on my machine, I'm sure there are plenty of good examples :-)
<nubae> but in the source
<nubae> sorry if these are silly questions, just want to get my head around it properly
<LaserJock> nubae: doesn't matter where it is in the source really
<LaserJock> nubae: if you want to see an example of how this all works you can have a look at the edubuntu-addon-meta source package
<LaserJock> apt-get source edubuntu-addon-meta
<ogra_> LaserJock, you touch the seeds ?
<ogra_> if you do so, can you drop kpercentage from the seeds ?
<ogra_> seems it's NBS
<nubae> lots of stuff needs to be dropped, like thin-client-manager
<LaserJock> ogra_: it seems I will be touching the seeds, I can do kpercentage now though
<ogra_> great, thanks
<ogra_> nubae, hm, i though i dropped that an aeon ago
<ogra_> when we added italc iirc
<nubae> no still in there just under italc
<ogra_> oh, then it can go indeed
<nubae> LaserJock: so if one theoretically wanted to create .desktop files for each sugar activity, one would copy the layout of a *.desktop.in file?
<nubae> and it would show in add/remove
<LaserJock> nubae: kinda yeah
<LaserJock> ogra_: thin-client-manager-backend is still in edubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> we don't need that for anything, right?
<nubae> italc replaces it
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah, I just didn't know if -backened needed to be retained for some reason
<nubae> LaserJock: I know you are not too keen on the idea, but could we discuss getting a set of default apps to do .desktops for sugar?
<LaserJock> nubae: it's not that I'm not keen on it so much as it was orthogonal to the question we were working at the the time
<LaserJock> nubae: do people generally not just install all the activities?
<nubae> no, each additonal activity is a package
<nubae> sugar-activities, which is the main one, contains 6 common activities, but is way too minimal for any school
<nubae> each other activity is packaged as a seperate .deb
<LaserJock> nubae: I'm not talking about the .debs
<LaserJock> I'm just wondering if people, in general, will want to just install all the activities
<nubae> they will want to pick and choose
<nubae> there is no way to install all of them
<LaserJock> sure there is :-)
<nubae> I mean in one easy go...
<LaserJock> no?
<LaserJock> why not?
<nubae> cause u have to figure out which activity u want and then either apt-get install sugar-this-activity, or download .xo bundle from website
<LaserJock> that's what meta-packages are for
<LaserJock> but that's more of a all-or-nothing, hence my question about if people would like to just install all of them
<nubae> no they wouldnt
<nubae> reason being it would clutter up UI
<nubae> apps go round the center XO icon... around it... u can only have a limited number before it becomes unusable
<LaserJock> ok, that makes sense
<LaserJock> well, then it seems like individual .desktops is the way to go
<nubae> so what should I do to make that happen?
<LaserJock> I don't think it's exactly inline with how Add/Remove is generally used, but I don't see better alternatives
<LaserJock> nubae: make .desktop and get them to the Sugar Team
<nubae> so inside the specific apps rather than the edubuntu meta packages?
<LaserJock> nubae: yep, you'd want to put it in the source package that builds the .deb it's for
<LaserJock> gotta run
<LaserJock> bbiab
<darkphader> is it better to start with kubuntu or ubuntu for the edubuntu add-on ?
<ball> darkphader: I've been told Edubuntu uses elements of Gnome, so ubuntu might be a more natural fit.
<darkphader> ball: thx
<nubae> it also uses elements of kde actually
<nubae> like kde-edu
<ball> nubae: interesting.
<nubae> but indeed it uses the ubuntu base, not kubuntu
<darkphader> ok, i'll try it with ubuntu then
<darkphader> probably work with either
<ball> For an LTSP deployment of Edubuntu, is it sensible to start with Ubuntu Server?
<nubae> no
<nubae> As u'll be using the desktop
<nubae> for all users
<nubae> so start with edubuntu-desktop
<ball> Hmm... okay.
<ball> thanks.
<ball> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> hi ball
<nubae> greets LaserJock
 * LaserJock sucks down some Diet Coke Lime to start the day
<LaserJock> yuck, that tasted kinda like nasty cough syrup
<nubae> hmmm
 * nubae just found this: http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/school-advocacy/C/
<LaserJock> uh oh
<nubae> uh oh?
<ball> I could do with a pint of cough syrup now.
<LaserJock> nubae: the School Advocacy doc was originally written for Edgy
<LaserJock> nubae: it's been updated some, but it's certainly not up to Hardy/Intrepid
<nubae> would it be a good base? or is the edubuntu handbook better?
<LaserJock> I think the handbook took from the School Advocacy doc
<LaserJock> I think it went Cookbook -> Advocacy -> Handbook, but not necessarily in a linear fashion
<ball> Adaptive Radiation
<nubae> lol
<LaserJock> nubae: I think you should consider what kind of document you want to create
<LaserJock> nubae: if you want it to be a "help" doc or a "intro" doc
<nubae> I dunno, right now I'm adding all the sugar activities to the edubuntu apps spreadsheet
<nubae> I spoke to the sugar guys and they'll add the .desktop files to their sources
<nubae> so for Jaunty we can at least have something functional
<nubae> I dont think we need a help doc... more an intro doc
<nubae> and a listing of the apps
<LaserJock> we should have some sort of program to do the app list I think, eventually
<nubae> from the packages u mean?
<nubae> or from the seeds..
<LaserJock> seeds I think
<nubae> but the descriptions are in the apps themselves right?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> I wonder if we could rip off the Debian Blends task lists
<LaserJock> that might be nice
<darkphader> after ubuntu install, should it be updated before adding edubuntu ? or add edubuntu and then update ?
<LaserJock> darkphader: doesn't reall matter I don't think
<LaserJock> I'd probably add Edubuntu first then update
<LaserJock> nubae: check out http://debian-med.alioth.debian.org/tasks/
<nubae> does that assume that all the packages are in debian=?
<LaserJock> nubae: I'm saying we could copy that for Edubuntu
<ball> hello ogra
<nubae> I don't understand, u mean create a ubuntu pure blend?
<LaserJock> nubae: no, use the scripts they use to generate those pages and adapt them for our use
<LaserJock> although we are kinda like an Ubuntu pure blend :-)
<nubae> heh yeah, some of the other debian pure blends like junior and science dont actually have descriptions
<nubae> I guess thats done on the webside though... the scripting
<ball> ...by small monkeys who live in the Web server
<nubae> right :-)
<nubae> with little wrenches
<ball> hello RichEd
 * ball sighs
<LaserJock> nubae: but it's an automatic way to generate decent lists of apps
<RichEd> hi ball ... why the sigh ?
<RichEd> hi LaserJock , nubae
<ball> RichEd: lot on plate. Lots of things to do (incl. learn Edubuntu) and very little time in which to do any of it.
<nubae> greets RichEd
<nubae> I just added the sugar activities that work and are packaged in ubuntu to the ubuntu-edu-apps spreadsheet
<nubae> shall I send it your way?
<ball> Does Sugar require a huge screen?
<LaserJock> RichEd: has Canonical ever thought about including the Edu stuff in their certificatino/training courses?
<RichEd> nubae: yes please ... richard@ubuntu.com
<nubae> it should be dynamic...
<nubae> but the screen size is set to 1200x900 for about 30% of the apps
<nubae> hardcoded for the XOs
<nubae> but its all changing now as Sugar labs is independent now
<ball> Independent of olpc?
<nubae> yes totally
<ball> (is that where it started?)
<nubae> not even funded anymore by them
<RichEd> LaserJock: there does not seem to be enough will/budget/motivation for education organisations to pay for training ... so there is no value proposition for investment in edu training
<ball> Interesting.
<ball> RichEd: that's a shame.
<ball> What's the channel for talk of Ubuntu certification?
<RichEd> remember that Canonical do not do training, it is all done by Training Providers & the training providers charge "per bum in seat" rates that are beyond edu tolerances
<nubae> yeah... olpc still uses the sugar ui and will do for the forseeable future.. but who knows what will happen with the windows move...
<LaserJock> RichEd: you'd think for large deployements it might be worth it, but yeah, I suppose they want a great OS free and everybody to know how to use it for free
<RichEd> LaserJock: on the certification side ... where do you feel that edu is not covered in current certification
<nubae> RichEd: did u get my message yesterday about certifying netbooks to work with edubuntu/ubuntu?
<LaserJock> I don't know a ton on the cert
<LaserJock> but LTSP isn't covered is it
<RichEd> LaserJock: that's a point (LTSP) we have been itching for a large OEM (dell / hp) to build an appliance LTSP server and get it certified ... I think that would be a marker winner, especially if thjey sold it with a remote support biundle option
<LaserJock> maybe a school would just look for a Ubuntu Certified person and not worry about anything edu specific
<RichEd> LaserJock: the Georgia deployment of Kubuntu is the best example of your "free" comment above ... as follows
<RichEd> requirement: free OS on desktop
<RichEd> requirement: free OS on server
<RichEd> requirement: commercial support must be available
<ball> Georgia the country, or the state in the U.S?
<RichEd> ball: the rugby playing nation that is playing mini-cold-war with the Russians ;)
<ball> Is there a Georgian translation of Ubuntu then?
<RichEd> BUT ... despite the *need* to have commericial support available, they have not taken up any support
<nubae> probably cant afford it :-)
<RichEd> it is a "prudent OS decision" that support must be available, but only to have available if the whole network catches alight ... small fires are dealt with using their own skills
<LaserJock> RichEd: question from the Georgia thing, how much is the demand for Edu on Kubuntu?
<LaserJock> RichEd: well, thats sort of why I wondered if Canonical would get into the "give the skills to deal with the small fire" game
<RichEd> LaserJock: they install the whole edu-app-bundle ... but Ku is the local linux flavour people are used to
<RichEd> LaserJock: Canonical has made the desktop training manual available for free to any edu organisation, and they are allowed to use it for training *provided* that there is no charge beyond that required to cover incedental costs of training
<LaserJock> RichEd: we have edubuntu-desktop-kde but I'm not sure it's very maintainable
<LaserJock> I wondered if a KDE "bundle" would be useful
<LaserJock> or if people really don't care too much, they just install stuff
<RichEd> LaserJock: my take on this is that kde need to take care of this ... we (edubuntu) provide the working apps ... they need to do the flavour change#
<LaserJock> well, but whether an app works or not depends on the environment
<LaserJock> in some cases anyway
<LaserJock> it's not quite as simple as "if the app works on Gnome it's good to go"
<LaserJock> or vice versa
<LaserJock> you can throw Xubuntu in there too
<LaserJock> we get quite a few "Will Edubuntu work on Xubuntu?" questions in here
<RichEd> LaserJock: if the app works on Gnome its good to go on Ubuntu ... Kubuntu tailoring (like replacing all the C's with K's) is an internal Ku requirement ;)
<LaserJock> I'm not sure I exactly follow that
<RichEd> ball: not being ab le to afford it is a high level take ... but rather see it this way ... $ 250 per year for a desktop support contract per seat, or $ 250 per year (x 20 seats per classroom) to spend on internal teacher training or support training ... where would *you* advise them to spend the money ?
<LaserJock> you're saying that Canonical's Kubuntu people will make sure it works?
<RichEd> Canonical's Kubuntu people & community need to make sure it works ... and come to us for specific help, or ask us to provide links to our upstream
<LaserJock> why should they care about our apps though?
<RichEd> Kubuntu users are "clients" of Kubuntu no ?
<LaserJock> if we're the "Edu" people shouldn't we care that educational apps work everwhere?
<LaserJock> I wouldn't say clients
<LaserJock> but sorta
<nubae> or at least the supported ones in main/universe
<LaserJock> Kubuntu takes care of what Kubuntu ships
<LaserJock> no more
<LaserJock> Kubuntu is not responsible for gcompris
<RichEd> not being harsh ... just how far do we bend from Ubuntu ... Kubuntu, Xubuntu, WaddawaddaFluBuntu, RedChinaBuntu ?
<ball> RichEd: I'd have them keep the teachers, buy textbooks etc.
<LaserJock> RichEd: we don't have to do all of them
<LaserJock> RichEd: but if there's significant interest in Kubuntu and Xubuntu it might be in our best interest to look into it
<RichEd> but if one of the  Kubuntu, Xubuntu, WaddawaddaFluBuntu, RedChinaBuntu come to us for specific qualified assistance ... we will help ... just we can't be as proactive if we have limityed resources
<LaserJock> granted
<LaserJock> but we could also poke them about it too
<LaserJock> "heah, can somebody in your team use the Ubuntu Education CD and give it a test"
<RichEd> try this for size: kubuntu edu people are welcome in this channel ... but should we be monitoring #kubuntu ?
<LaserJock> no
<RichEd> LaserJock: it would be great for Kubuntu community to elect an education person who stayed in touch with us, especially around release time
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure that ignoring the large populations of people who use Kubuntu is a great idea either
<RichEd> that's worth inviting Kubuntu and Xubuntu to do ?
<LaserJock> I'm just thinking that if we're supposed to be the Education people in Ubuntu we should think about *all* of Ubuntu
<ball> I like Xubuntu
<ball> ...at least, for the brief period that I got to try it.
<nubae> another layer of complication.. really?
<LaserJock> if we need to throw some extra packages on the Education CD to make it work with Kubuntu and Xubuntu I'm all for it
<RichEd> granted ... but I'd think the invite them to take a "shared interest" is as far as we can go with the limited sweat power we have
<LaserJock> I'm not gonna spend time testing it, but it's worth putting out there
<RichEd> LaserJock: do you think they should maybe file a spec ?
<ball> I suppose a helpful thing is that Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu all have X11, so there's commonality there.
<ball> ...I'm sure Gnome and Kde have different UI conventions.
<RichEd> what happens now if someone installs onoe or more edu apps on kubuntu ... does it not pull in the required dependencies ?
<ball> Xubuntu may be all over the place, I don't know.
<ball> ...but at least things should /run/
<RichEd> or are you taking about providing what we do around add/remove as kubuntu slickness as well ?
<RichEd> (re edu CD)
<nubae> who maintains the kde-edu stuff?
<LaserJock> RichEd: individual apps can be installed
<LaserJock> but you're gonna need the internet
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu Education CD will only provide an internet-less install for Ubuntu
<LaserJock> which isn't realy bad, just something that people need to be aware of
<LaserJock> the edubuntu-desktop package is pretty heavily Gnome-centric
<RichEd> LaserJock: ^ so note that for large edu deployments (al la Georgia) the edu dept builds one std image ... and ghosts / clones ... so the big playas can get what they need onto the Kubuntu desktop
<LaserJock> gpaint instead of krita, etc.
<LaserJock> nubae: Kubuntu does essentiall
<LaserJock> +y
<ball> Do I need the Education CD to get the full benefit of Edubuntu, or can I "sudo apt-get edubuntu-desktop" and get the lot?
<nubae> just apt-get it
<RichEd> LaserJock: krita ^ great point ... to show why *we* can't sort it out from our side and that the requests and direction need to come from Kubuntu
<ball> nubae: thanks
<nubae> the cd is essentialls just for people with slow or no internet connection
<RichEd> how do we know that krita will be the paint program in Kubuntu Jaunty ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: because it's the only one they got? :-)
<nubae> I doubt it would replace gimp
<RichEd> what if we get it bundled onto our edu CD and they have moved to Kairbrushsplodge ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: well, then we should know about it
<LaserJock> we don't live in a vacumn here
<LaserJock> we're all one big happy family (or at least that's what people say)
<RichEd> LaserJock: from research, or attending every Kubuntu UDS session, or from "hey Edu guys, please help us get an edu version going with this spec"
<RichEd> methinks the latter is the most sane
<LaserJock> I don't want specs
<ball> I want cake.
<LaserJock> specs are overkill and other issues
<LaserJock> one thing we can do is open better communications
<RichEd> LaserJock: spec / list / request / relationship / email ... point is that it needs to be initiaited
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> and I think we should initiate
<LaserJock> see if there's some interest there
<RichEd> LaserJock: riddell used to hang out here to keep an eye out ...  is he usually aound lately ?
<LaserJock> I don't think here
<LaserJock> I think we need to build that relationship a bit
 * RichEd invites LaserJock to scrol back to my "invite" comments way back at the top of the page#
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I just think we might need to be a bit more proactive
<LaserJock> rather than just waiting for people to show up
 * RichEd hands ball some "have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too" version 0.3 beta
<LaserJock> there are a couple small things we could do to maybe get some things going
<LaserJock> one thing would be to write up a Kubuntu-based test case for the ISO tracker
<LaserJock> make sure that our apps do infact work on Kubuntu
<LaserJock> if they don't we can figure out who to task it with (is it a KDE problem or an app problem)
<RichEd> LaserJock: perhaps we should have a "friends of education" meeting once as month and invite sugar/xubuntu/ubuntu and upstream etc. ?
<LaserJock> maybe
<LaserJock> I gotta run
<LaserJock> meeting with advisor
<LaserJock> keep talking if you want and I'll read scrollback
<RichEd> so they attend 1 a month ... not miss 4 a month
<ball> My cake just dumped core.
 * RichEd invites ball to reboot his cake
<RichEd> and remove the "icing and cherry
<RichEd> that module is unstable
<ball> Okay, seriously.  LPIC-1 looks affordable and should help my career a lot.... wonder if I should take a course for that.
 * RichEd needs power ... for my notebook ... and coffee for my brain
<RichEd> ball: if you have serious questions about linux/ubuntu certification (for yourself) I can put you in touch with our training manager
<nubae> lpic is really good, but hard
<RichEd> ball: what country are you based in ?
<ball> RichEd: sadly I live in the U.S.
<ball> Well, it's mostly sad because I'm stuck here and my family is back home in Britain
<ball> ...except for the Canadian fork
<ball> ...I suppose we've become the U.S. fork.
<ball> Need to send someone to Australia next I think.
<ball> hello Sir_Remoz
<Sir_Remoz> hi penguins (and not) :P
<ball> I wonder if I'm a daemon.
 * ball <- BSD user
<RichEd> ball: well regarding your sadly location comment ... perhaps my obama will restore some of your (and the rest of the world's) faith in what has become the Untied States of America
<RichEd> no more Bush ... D-30-something and counting
<ball> RichEd: That was definitely a step in the right direction so far as I'm concerned... not so much because he's black (though that's important), but because he's educated and intelligent and seems to genuinely care.
<ball> ...not that I get to vote for anyone over here.
<ball> I got distracted.  Linux certification from uiuc.edu, via O'Reilly, US$ 1,194 +ehft
<RichEd> class.president {requirement [brain] (working)} recommended upgrade waiting to install
<ball> Then there's LPI and CompTIA
<ball> Does Linux keep its bash shell in /bin/bash ?
<stgraber>  /bin/sh is usually a symlink to the default shell
<stgraber> in ubuntu it's dash
<ball> right, but for a bash script he should write #!/bin/bash, right?
<stgraber> if it needs some bash-specific function yes
<stgraber> we tend not to do so though
<stgraber> as bashisms only make things harder to maintain
<ball> stgraber: it's funny, I've just written my friend an email saying basically the same thing.
<ball> I advised him to use Bourne syntax where possible (and #!/bin/sh), but to make sure that if he uses extensions that are specific to bash, to remember to change his #! to /bin/bash
<ball> Hopefully that's right on Linux.
<ball> brb
<sbalneav> For the XBox people out there:
<sbalneav> http://www.halolz.com/2008/11/11/achievement-unlocked-become-president/
<LaserJock> ok, back from meetings
<LaserJock> dang, I'm feeling old
<LaserJock> just read an article in the school newspaper about the "study drug" that's all the rage
<LaserJock> I thought it was coffee and coke
<LaserJock> but apparently there's this ADHD drug that kids are taking these days
<nubae> which one?
<LaserJock> Adderall or something like that
<ball> Ugh.
<LaserJock> I knew kids were drinking unhealthy amounts of Red Bull, etc.
<LaserJock> but illegal drug abuse just to cram for finals seems like a real problem
<LaserJock> having been at university for 10 years ... it's not worth it :-)
 * ball has finals next week.  Chamomile tea is on my list.
<ball> I wonder what schools will be like when my daughter gets to high school.
<RichEd> ball: or when high school gets to your daughter ... brick & mortar may be less relevant than now ;)
<RichEd> LaserJock: "coffee or coke" or "coffee and coke" ;)
<LaserJock> RichEd: *or*
<LaserJock> RichEd: get any mvo time?
<RichEd> LaserJock: lunch date homefully
<RichEd> hopefully#
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok, just ping me
<ball> I have to go, I've just been given a problem to solve in ten minutes :-(
<RichEd> hi HedgeMage
<RichEd> LaserJock: just finished with mvo ... green lights all roumd
<RichEd> *round
<RichEd> seen this: http://appnr.com/package/kstars
<HedgeMage> hi, RichEd
<LaserJock> RichEd: what does "green lights all round" mean?
<RichEd> mvo is happy with the approach we want to take for the creation of education bundles for installation under add-remove
<RichEd> ubuntu-edu-preschool
<RichEd> ubuntu-edu-primary / secondary / terrtiary
<RichEd> etc.
<RichEd> one click select, brings down a chunk of edu apps that are classified under that category
<LaserJock> RichEd: so does he know what he needs to do? did you talk specific technical bits?
<RichEd> yep ... he said he can assist with the programming needed to bring the bundles to the top of the education menu
<LaserJock> RichEd: ok, coolio
<RichEd> for now (until we have other bundles - like ubuntu-icafe ubuntu-financial) we keep it under education
<LaserJock> RichEd: do you want me to finish off the spec then with all the tech bits?
<RichEd> standard metapackage approach ... he will ensure that / assist with stitching the metapackage approach into add-remove
<RichEd> edubuntu project is responsible for creating and maintaining the metapackage(s)
<LaserJock> all I need is the bundle-floating, getting them *into* Add/Remove is trivial
<LaserJock> so he'll need the names of the metapackages and/or .desktop files and he can hack that in
<RichEd> also, he has no objection to assisting you with the longer term / pet project menu based on group of logged in user ... he said he has dpne some stuff around that and would be keen to be in the loop
<LaserJock> excellent
<nubae> coolness ie. preschool, primary, secondary, etc
<RichEd> nubae: do these classifications work for germany / austria as well ?
<RichEd> (there is quice a difference country to country, so we need generalised terms
<nubae> yeah its the same, as long as we don't use the terms higher
<nubae> thats an American thing I believe
<RichEd> this is what we would use as a high level descriptor:
<RichEd> Pre-school   [ Early Learning ]
<RichEd> Primary      [ K1 â K7  ]
<RichEd> Secondary    [ K8 â K12 ]	
<RichEd> Tertiary     [ College / University ]
<RichEd> with packages called:
<RichEd> ubuntu-edu-primary
<RichEd> ubuntu-edu-secondary
<RichEd> ubuntu-edu-tertiary
<RichEd> ubuntu-edu-preschool
<nubae> yeah thats fine... the K stuff makes no sense here, but otherwise its great
<RichEd> nubae: yep ... but K is sort of spreading around the world ... here in .za we have Grade 1 - Grade 12
<RichEd> it used to be: Class 1 Class 2 Standard 1 -> Standard 10
<nubae> in uk schools they use year 1, 2... 12
<nubae> standard? wierd...
<RichEd> so Grade 2 = K2 = Year 2 ... a teacher should catch on to that
<nubae> yseah
<nubae> RichEd: u are also in za?
<RichEd> so between the primary / secondary and xyz 1 there is enough clue to get a grip
<RichEd> nubae: for the moment just at UDS in .us in CA ... haven't quite mastered the duality thing,;)  but normally based in Cape Town sunny south africa
<nubae> nice
<LaserJock> RichEd: regarding that appnr thing, that's pretty much exactly what I want to have for Ubuntu Education
<nubae> did u take a look at the spreadsheet I sent u, I have to set up various non xos with sugar in Graz (Austria) on Tuesday and would like to tell them we (ubuntu-edu) will support them with sugar activities
<LaserJock> and you can just click on the link to install, just like what we were talking about
<nubae> ?
<LaserJock> nubae: have a look at http://appnr.com/package/kstars
<nubae> oooh nice, is that an example how all edu apps will look?
<LaserJock> nubae: that's a 3rd party website somebody made
<nubae> well seems perfect...
<LaserJock> but quite a bit of work
<LaserJock> well, it's not *so* much work if you are a web-app programmer
<LaserJock> the description, etc. is taken from the packages themselves
<nubae> it seems quite complete to me
<nubae> I just tried etoys though and it doesnt work...
<LaserJock> so there's really no data they had to write themselves, which is handy
<LaserJock> nubae: I'm guessing it only takes part of the archive + some 3rd party repos
<LaserJock> it says it has 1878
<LaserJock> we have something like 20k total packages
<nubae> I guess we want to look at the scripts... though if we dont have control over the server....
<LaserJock> we need a web team :-)
<LaserJock> and here's the Debian Edu package listing: http://cdd.alioth.debian.org/edu/tasks/
<nubae> I see an issue here if something isn't really update and supported though...
<nubae> it could make it look pretty bad...
<LaserJock> well, I think it's important to be real with people
<LaserJock> I think it's really bad to think a program is gonna be really cool and nice, then install it only to find it's a piece of junk
<LaserJock> that's basically why we have Main
<nubae> right I agree
<nubae> but thats not that obvious from those sites
<nubae> I wouldn't want my teachers to be installing 'crap'
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> that's why I think we need to pick what goes on the site
<LaserJock> and why I don't think the bundles should necessarily contain *every* package that fits the category
<nubae> agreed
<nubae> so where do we go from here?
<LaserJock> good question :-)
<LaserJock> I wonder if it'd be a good idea to wiki'ize RichEd's list
<LaserJock> and let people comment, etc.
<nubae> like do a rating?
<LaserJock> I don't know that we need a rating
<nubae> thats why moodle would be so good, but I'll shut up about that now :-)
<LaserJock> just "yeah, that one's crap" or "what, you guys forgot ...!"
<LaserJock> nubae: moodle's not exactly out of the question
<nubae> I thought it was...a moodle instance
<LaserJock> nubae: we'd just need a moodle server and somebody to admin it
<LaserJock> well, it can't be on edubuntu.org
<nubae> oh. then no point
<LaserJock> but for now we could perhaps host it somewhere else
<nubae> unless its edubunu.org/moodle, I see no point
<LaserJock> why?
<nubae> but anyway, I'll volunteer to put up the apps in edubuntu.org itself... I think thats where they need to be, its the point of entry
<nubae> its the point of entry... putting them elsewhere is senseless
<LaserJock> you can link wherever you want from a point of entry
<LaserJock> and I wasn't seeing that as the permanent home or anything
<nubae> thats true, but why do u think putting the docs on ubuntu.com and not edubuntu.org is a bad idea?
<LaserJock> once we get the intial bundles done then we won't need it really
<LaserJock> what docs? do you mean doc.ubuntu.com?
<nubae> yeah, I am agreeing with you I think it should all be under edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> right right, we will
<LaserJock> I'm just saying in trying to figure out the intial bundles it doesn't matter where we put it
<nubae> ok so for now, why not manually, and alread under edubuntu.org, its not so difficult... how many edu apps we got?
<LaserJock> not sure
<LaserJock> we can surely do it manually right now
<LaserJock> what I'm talking about is sort of a different topic
<LaserJock> I'm just to figure out what apps *to* have not what we *do* have
<LaserJock> *just trying
<nubae> but u still think those should be manually verified right?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> then we just need to agree to go through them and put them up
<LaserJock> we could throw up a simple list of what apps are on the CD no problem
<LaserJock> I'd like to think about how we want it to look though a little bit
<nubae> fine so lets discuss that... what are your thoughts?
<LaserJock> well, it should be pretty easy to look at
<LaserJock> so we don't want a lot of content
<LaserJock> I'm thinking like 2 columns
<LaserJock> with headings for pre-school, primary, secondary, tertiary maybe?
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> use the icon from the app, the name, and then a short description
<LaserJock> we need to have a page for each release, for now just Hardy and Intrepid
<LaserJock> nubae: makes sense?
<nubae> yep
<LaserJock> you feeling up to the task?
<nubae> yeah that was what I was thinking
<nubae> I'd like to think about Jaunty to though... ie what's coming...
#edubuntu 2008-12-12
<LaserJock> nubae: well, we don't know what that's going to be yet
<nubae> we can plan ahead though
<LaserJock> I think we're gonna have to do some thinking about that
<nubae> we should plan ahead
<LaserJock> for sure, and that's what UDS is all about
<LaserJock> let's see, we need to get you a spot on the wiki
<nubae> I think that should be straight on edubuntu.org, whats wrong with that?
<LaserJock> nubae: it's not a place for you to do the work
<LaserJock> nubae: a place to stick a "nubae rocks!"
<LaserJock> :-)
<nubae> hmmm ?
<LaserJock> one sec
<LaserJock> nubae: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<nubae> cool, what does that mean practically?
<LaserJock> nubae: means you're in charge of that
<LaserJock> and hopefully at the end of the release we can write up a "holy cow, look what all we did!"
<nubae> ok, but where can I actually start doing that...
<LaserJock> on edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> we're just task tracking
<nubae> ok, cool, I'll set up a link and get you to review it, cool?
<LaserJock> sure
<nubae> under drupal we can set something that isn't visible to others, and that way review its ok
<Eeyore-Jr> sudo exportfs -a exportfs: /etc/exports:1: syntax error: bad option list
<LaserJock> phew
 * LaserJock stares at a list of 170 Edubuntu wiki pages
<nothingman> hi, all
<nothingman> been using an Edubuntu terminal server for a couple week
<nothingman> *weeks*
<nothingman> I like it, and the teachers I've shown it to have been impressed
<HedgeMage> nifty :)
<nothingman> I want to make a default 'student' user who logs in to sugar
<nothingman> with no password
<nothingman> all the tutorials for fat clients seem to be toward NFS, but I know that Edubuntu uses NBD now, right?
<nothingman> (note to self: never ask for confirmation of what you say you know)
<nubae> nothingman: we have to use nfs for fatclient
<nubae> but only for the /home parition
<nubae> the rest is still nbd
<nubae> for sugar, and for fat client for that matter please take a look here: www.nubae.com
<russell_nash> sbalneav, i thought I would just let you know that my LTSP mysteriously started working yesterday, but I made no further changes so it is probably just coincidence. I hope it stays that way but I suspect the problems will return. Latest errors file http://paste.ubuntu.com/84297/      Thanks.
<Nalk> hell
<nothingman> nubae, thanks for answering my unasked question! :-D
<nubae> no problem
<nubae> we're all happy go lucky people in here as sbalneav said ;-)
<nothingman> ah, I knew I recognized the name
<nothingman> I've been reading your blog quite a bit
<nothingman> it was one of the few resources I could access from my retail job's computers!
<nothingman> some very good howto's there
<nubae> thanks
<stgraber> ogra_, LaserJock: I have a new ltsp and ldm ready for upload to Jaunty, any of you has a minute to upload ?
<LaserJock> oh geeze, let me see if I even have a Jaunty chroot up yet :(
<LaserJock> I'm kinda behind
#edubuntu 2008-12-13
<stgraber> http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/ltsp/ contain both packages
<stgraber> I couldn't test the package on a jaunty system but the intrepid backport I made is working fine (and is actually kind-of in production as we needed these features)
<LaserJock> stgraber: are you going to get that into -updates or -backports?
<stgraber> LaserJock: well, for now the intrepid one is in my PPA, it won't be uploaded to -updates as it's really hard to cherrypick fixes for ltsp but I'll probably ask for a backport.
<LaserJock> stgraber: how much is feature addition though?
<LaserJock> I wonder if it could get squeezed into a SRU
<stgraber> LaserJock: integrating the whole ltsp-cluster, getting a replacement for configure-x (xorg configuration file generation), adding a xdg menu generator for the localapps, addind xinitrc.d and screen-session.d, moving a good part of the C code to shell when possible (mainly in ldm)
<stgraber> as I said, not easy to cherry-pick from :)
<LaserJock> what's the reason for C -> shell ?
<stgraber> and these are really new features, I don't think there is any reported bug on LP fixed by that (I'd need to have one more look)
<stgraber> because starting X from the C code was really weird and making changing the X parameters really hard
<LaserJock> I see
<stgraber> we also moved the session open from the C code to an rc script, so we can easily add a script changing the environment (as we source these and the final (gnome-session/kde/..) has the whole environement set)
<stgraber> oh, we also added .dmrc support to store the language and session
<stgraber> added serial printer support too
<LaserJock> ok, well I know sbalneav was eager to get some Intrepid stuff into Hardy
<LaserJock> I just wondered how much of this new stuff would be bug fixing
<stgraber> yeah, hardy is a bit broken
<stgraber> so intrepid => hardy needs a few SRU, jaunty => intrepid doesn't it's mostly new features
<LaserJock> right
<stgraber> LaserJock: ogra_ did the upload
<LaserJock> stgraber: good, I haven't even got my jaunty chroot made :-)
<ogra_> who needs a chroot ...
 * ogra_ just debsigned 
<LaserJock> ogra_: old habit I guess ;-)
<ogra_> no need for that for stgraber's ltsp uploads ... just do them :)
<ogra_> he should do them already, it's just buerocracy thats in the way
<stgraber> yeah ...
<ogra_> slacking motu council ...
<nubae> LaserJock: should I make the apps page with an app icon?
<LaserJock> nubae: why not
<nubae> yeah did without one and it looks quite silly...
<nubae> problem is not all apps have icons... what do I do for those?
<LaserJock> nubae: which ones don't?
<nubae> weird ones, for example: DDV Sequence Alignment Viewer
<nubae> maybe I'm looking in the wrong place... I'm using the net to look for relevant websites
<LaserJock> why the heck is DDV Sequence Alignment Viewer doing on your list?
<nubae> I'm using the  the ubuntu-apps edu spreadsheet
<LaserJock> don't use that
<LaserJock> use the seeds
<nubae> k
<LaserJock> only a handfull of the apps on the list are in Edubuntu
<nubae> ok? ???
<nubae> also.. should I make them clickable install then?
<nubae> U did tell me to use the spreadsheet as a base...
<LaserJock> not for Hardy and Intrepid
<LaserJock> for Hardy and Intrepid we need to list what we *actually* support/ship
<LaserJock> for Jaunty we're looking at expanding all that and using these bundles
<LaserJock> *which* will come from the spreadsheet
<nubae> ok, so the spreadsheet is Juanty related then?
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae> k, I learn something new... :-)
<LaserJock> that's why I said to not worry about the spreadsheet so much
<LaserJock> because it's sort of a different issue than the app lists for Hardy & Intrepid
<LaserJock> and also why I showed you the seeds :-)
<LaserJock> so hopefully that will make your life *much* easier ;-)
<nubae> for the current distro yes
<LaserJock> nubae: perhaps though could you make a new column on that spreadsheet that gives which apps you found didn't have an icon?
<nubae> ok, so I list all, but put a generic edubuntu icon infront of non icon apps?
<LaserJock> not on edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> I just meant in that spreadsheet if you could mark which ones didn't  have an icon
<LaserJock> it might be something we look at later
<nubae> just to clarify I've made a edubuntu page for this... should I make this elsewhere?
<Ahmuck> nubae: i'm getting an error, and wondered if you would know anything about it?
 * nubae listens
<Ahmuck> brb
<LaserJock> nubae: I don't think you need it elsewhere
<nubae> (02:34:53 AM) LaserJock: not on edubuntu.org
<Ahmuck-Jr> exportfs: /etc/exports:1: syntax error: bad option list
<Ahmuck-Jr> when i try the third line "sudo exportfs -a"
<Ahmuck-Jr> any clues?
<nubae> Ahmuck-Jr: be more inclusive please... what are u trying to do?
<Ahmuck-Jr> sudo apt-get install portmap nfs-kernel-server nfs-common
<Ahmuck-Jr> echo "/home 192.168.0.0/24(rw,no_root_squash,async)" | sudo tee -a /etc/exports /dev/null
<Ahmuck-Jr> sudo exportfs -a
<Ahmuck-Jr> that
<nubae> and what error do u get, abviously u are trying my fatclient script...
<LaserJock> nubae: I meant to mark down which don't have icons in the spreadsheet
<LaserJock> nubae: the ones that will go on edubuntu.org should all have icons
<Ahmuck-Jr> exportfs: /etc/exports:1: syntax error: bad option list - i get this error
<nubae> Ahmuck-Jr: can u edit that file and tell me whats in it: /etc/exportfs/
<Ahmuck-Jr> it appears that /etc only has a file named "exports"
<Ahmuck-Jr> no exportfs directory
<nubae> should be file /etc/exportfs
<Ahmuck-Jr> exports file has three lines, and the first line had a syntax error
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes, no file exportfs.  is that one you were trying to create via the script ?
<nubae> including /home/whatever 192.158.0..00/24/24
<nubae> 0.0
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes.  did nfs installation on ubuntu 8.10 change the file location?
<Ahmuck-Jr> er, name?
<Ahmuck-Jr> but, yes, /home/whatever is there in exports
<Ahmuck-Jr> exportfs: /etc/exports [1]: Neither 'subtree_check' or 'no_subtree_check' specified for export "192.168.0.0/24:/home".
<Ahmuck-Jr>   Assuming default behaviour ('no_subtree_check').
<Ahmuck-Jr>   NOTE: this default has changed since nfs-utils version 1.0.x - and now this error
<nubae> telll me where the exportfs instaled.
<Ahmuck-Jr> i saved exports to exportfs
<nubae> no subtree is normal
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, let me look
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15390
<nubae> show me /etc/exportfs
<Ahmuck-Jr> there was no exportfs ... i can create one from exports
<Ahmuck-Jr> let me do that
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15391
<nubae> thats great except its exports and not as it should be /etc/exportfs/
<Ahmuck-Jr> so, i'm confused should there have been an exportfs by default on ltsp server?
<Ahmuck-Jr>  /etc/exportfs?
<Ahmuck-Jr> echo "/home 192.168.0.0/24(rw,no_root_squash,async)" | sudo tee -a /etc/exports /dev/null - should this line say "exportfs" rather than exports ?
<nubae> nope sorry that is correct
<nubae> exports
<Ahmuck-Jr> so, i'm lost now i guess
<Ahmuck-Jr> i don't understand what is happening or what should be happening
<nubae> it should just work...
<Ahmuck-Jr> "exportfs -a" should just work?
<nubae> yes
<Ahmuck-Jr> hrm.  before i tried your script, i "sudo aptitude safe-upgrade"
<Ahmuck-Jr> so i'mat the latest update
<Ahmuck-Jr> would this be an indication my system was comprimized?
<nubae> that should be fine
<Ahmuck-Jr> what should be fine?
<Ahmuck-Jr> oh, nm
<nubae> your systen should not be compromised
<Ahmuck-Jr> i see.  originally i had a syntax error, now it exports and gives me the other error which is ok
<Ahmuck-Jr> because i went and looked at the file and removed the line with the syntax error and saved back.  k, thx nubae i'll go from here
<nubae> cool
<alex_21> I am using Edubuntu Server, and I added the line default_server = 127.0.0.1 to the file /etc/pulse/client.conf
<alex_21> Now what do I do for the changes to take effect?
<Ahmuck-Jr> 0 stray cats were added ?!
<Ahmuck-Jr> odd message
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: is there a way to overwrite entries in /usr/opt/fati386 without having to redo the entire thing?
<Ahmuck-Jr> sorry, /opt/ltsp/fati386
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: just saw ur artilce on xo.  reading some of your articles, i'm really interested in what your doing with ltsp
<Ahmuck-Jr> specifically, it appears that you are making a concentrated effort to ease ltsp for the classroom learning environment
<Ahmuck-Jr> to run fat clients, do i need to create a "local apps" menu?
<Ahmuck> !docs
<ubottu> documentation is to be found at http://help.ubuntu.com and http://wiki.ubuntu.com - General linux documentation: http://www.tldp.org - http://rute.2038bug.com
<Ahmuck> !docs
<Ahmuck> !doc
<nubae> Ahmuck-Jr: u can set it to use nfs instead of nbd, and that way u won't have to rebuild the image all the time I suppose
<nubae> and localapps is not needed for fat client
<Ahmuck> kewl, thx
<Ahmuck> i've been trying to get the fatclient installation to work, but it keeps erroring out partway through the install
 * Ahmuck needs to wait until it gets to that point again
<nubae> where's it dying?
<Ahmuck> i'll know in about 10min
<Ahmuck> it's at 76% download right now
<Ahmuck> i'll post to pastbin.be if it does it again.  i deleted the script to make sure i did not install hardy script and am trying again
<nubae> k I updated it recently... so make sure u are using the latest one from nubae.com
<Ahmuck> i am
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, it asks to enter main root user, which i assume is the account i created when intalling ubuntu ltsp server.  user1
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae: http://pastebin.be/15405
<nubae> edit the script and remove the part about kde-guidance
<nubae> in any case, by that time the script should have gone through and done everything, u just have to build the image
<Ahmuck-Jr> what should the script say there.  i just noticed it's at the end
<nubae> just take out the if... fi
<nubae> so the last 3 lines... but keep the esac at the end
<Ahmuck-Jr> k.  the last three lines are not needed i guess.  i'm going to post my dhcpd.conf to make sure everything is kosher
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/15408
<Ahmuck> hrm, when i reboot the thin client it is still being served the thin client address.  need to reboot the server to enforce ltsp/dhcp addressing?
<Ahmuck> nubae: well, after using the dhcp change, the thin client fails to boot thin or thick
 * Ahmuck is going out for sunshine
#edubuntu 2008-12-14
<nothingman> numb hands... :-P
<nothingman> hi, all
<nothingman> I installed edubuntu-server to my laptop with an existing ubuntu-desktop (and kubuntu, xubuntu) and I'm wondering what I forgot that I'll need
<nothingman> remember, I only typed 'apt-get install edubuntu-server' and let it rip
<nothingman> I set up DHCP correctly, but I don't seem to have any files under /opt
<nothingman> the client (a laptop with removed HD) gets IP OK by PXE
<nothingman> was wondering if it would ever be possible to boot from ethernet, start Wifi, disconnect cable and run from there
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
<LaserJock> I guess that's a no :-)
<KlausGerman4> bin ich hier in edubuntu.de?
#edubuntu 2009-12-07
<jbicha> mhall119|work: what school are you attending?
<mhall119> USF Poly
<mhall119> http://poly.usf.edu/
<jbicha> & what are you studying? :-)
<mhall119> Information Technology
<jbicha> take all the classes then!
<mhall119> I don't have the time or money (or desire) to take everything they offer
<mhall119> if I didn't have to work full time and pay for this out of my own pocket (or future pocket, as the case may be), I might consider it
<jbicha> well just take the important ones then, some of the stuff you can probably learn on your own anyway
<jbicha> I'm currently doing Intro to XML & Intro to Java & plan to do Computer Architecture & Intro to C++ next term
<mhall119> I'm signed up for Comp Networks + Lab, IT Security Management, Data Structures and Human Computer Interface
<mhall119> I need to find a humanities or something non-tech for this semester
<mhall119> obviously I'm going to drop a few
<mhall119> I wanted to take operating systems, but that has a pre-req on the Data Structures
<mhall119> I hear the professor makes students run Linux in VirtualBox for their assignments
<mhall119> my C programming class had all the students install the GNU compiler tools, which I appreciated
<mhall119> oddly, it was my Java Mobile class that required that I program on Windows, go figure
<jbicha> my Java teacher uses Fedora but not icedtea...for the basic stuff we do, I haven't had a problem with the free Java implementation
<jbicha> for my Unix class, I was disappointed that the teacher recommended Cygwin; I thought Linux (Ubuntu, for instance) in VirtualBox would encourage the students to realize there's a lot more usefulness in Linux than just a black & white command line
<sbalneav> Morning all
<mhall119> is icedtea still around?
<mhall119> I thought it was incorporated into OpenJDK
<mhall119> jbicha: that is kind of sad
<mhall119> at least a BSD or OpenSolaris for a Unix class
<mhall119> morning sbalneav
<jbicha> ubuntu still calls the firefox plugin icedtea...
<mhall119> ah
<mhall119> I've always used sun-java anyway
<mhall119> though that may not be in Ubuntu 10.04
<jbicha> mhall119: the professor was one of those old, crusty Unix types :-)
<mhall119> jbicha: even less reason to like Cygwin then
<jbicha> very occasionally I run across some app that doesn't work right in icedtea but I don't care about the app enough to bother with it
<jbicha> well it was useful in that I had never installed cygwin before but...I mean if I have the ability to install random apps then what would I still be doing on WinXP or whatever anyway?
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> I install Cygwin whenever I have to use Windows at work
<mhall119> just so I can have bash and grep, really
<mhall119> and MinTTy and ssh
<ogra> alkisg, sbalneav, have you guys seen nubae around ? he pushed hard for the sugar stuff to get into ubuntu and they are about to remove it from the archive (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2009-December/006414.html)
<alkisg> ogra: I've seen him maybe a week ago, but he doesn't come frequently here or in #ltsp anymore... The logbot is down for 10 days, and I've tried to ping him to get it up, but I got no response
<alkisg> I'll try to forward the email you send to his personal mail
<ogra> ah, well, i just wanted to give him an opportunity to shout
<sbalneav> ogra: No, I haven't
<sbalneav> Yeah, I couldn't see the exact reason why they want to yank it
<ogra> just to clean the archive before LTS
<sbalneav> Yeah, but howcome they're not in debian, licensing?
<ogra> if someone takes care of maintenance etc they wont, the point is that these packages are not from debian and nobody in ubuntu maintained them since hardy
<ogra> well, if you look at squeak, that was licensed very badly but distributable ... which is why i packaged it in breezy ...
<alkisg> Doesn't scratch and some others depend on squeak?
<alkisg> etoys...
<ogra> laser took that over and at some point when the licensing was changed upstream debian pulled squeak in ... but with different package naming scheme
<ogra> so my/laserjocks squeak packages are obsolete and the debian package should be used
<sbalneav> ogra: Later on this week I'm going to submit some packaging work I've done to REVU. For the process of getting MOTU|whatever replaces is
<sbalneav> it.
<ogra> cool !
<ogra> ping me if you need a reviewer
<sbalneav> I've packaged 2 things from scratch, and done a merge on one package, and I'll do another merge this week.
<ogra> wow
<sbalneav> yeah, I'll hit you and LaserJock|highvoltage up
<sbalneav> they
<sbalneav> they're in my ppa
<sbalneav> I did irssi-xmpp-plugin (update to 0.50) and cnetworkmanager
<sbalneav> Plus my work on sabayon
<ogra> nice
<highvoltage> sbalneav: hmm?
<sbalneav> I might hit you up for revu
<sbalneav> check out my ppa
<sbalneav> I've been doing some packaging
<sbalneav> cnetworkmanager I'm proud of: I did that one from scratch.
<sbalneav> I also wrote a proper manpage for it.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: great :)
<highvolt1ge> sbalneav: so cnetworkmanager makes it easy to configure wifi connections from the command line?
<sbalneav> highvoltage: yep
<sbalneav> cnetworkmanager -n shows you what networks are around
<highvoltage> sbalneav: nice
<ogra> like nm-tool does ?
<sbalneav> you can set wep and wap keys
<sbalneav> nm-tool only shows you things
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> cnetworkmanager actually allows you to SET things
<sbalneav> connect to a network, up/down an interface, etc.
<ogra> yep
<sbalneav> It's a nice tool.
 * ogra knows cnetworkmanager and is sad upstream didnt include it into nm-tool 
<sbalneav> yeah, cnetworkmanager should really just become PART of networkmanager
<ogra> but well ... thats upstream ...
<ogra> right
<highvoltage> I probably shouldn't install it on a machine that has network manager installed right?
<sbalneav> No, go ahead
<ogra> highvoltage, its a frontend
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> it's no different from the little gnome-nm-applet thingy
<ogra> like knetworkmanager or nm-applet
<sbalneav> other than command-liney :)
<sbalneav> For, you know, people who like to type and/or script cool things.
<ogra> weird folks
<highvoltage> heh
<sbalneav> Hush, you. :)
<ogra> you mean there are people that dont /click/ on things ?
<ogra> scary !!!
<sbalneav> This gui stuff's a passing fad.
<highvoltage> my father calls them "linux nerds"
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'm a clicker
<sbalneav> I still got my wyse60 terminal at the blistering speed of 19.2kbps.
<highvoltage> I was wondering where those sounds came from
<ogra> sbalneav, so next you should make gpm work with hal ;)
<ogra> then we can click on things in cnetworkmanager !!
<sbalneav> Come the apocolypse, WE'LL SEE WHO'S GONNA BE LAUGHING!!!!111one
 * sbalneav dons his survivalist gear.
<Ahmuck-Jr> it won't be linux nerds
<mhall119> apt-get install apocalypse-survival-tools
<mhall119> apt-get install apocalypse-survival-tools-dev
<highvoltage> stgraber: what do you need in order to become a revu reviewer?
<Ahmuck-Jr> it'll be peeps who took time to visually identify plants, build mechanics, etc.
<ogra> highvoltage, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU ?
<mhall119> Ahmuck-Jr: ners will have a solar panel and a local copy of Wikipedia
<mhall119> we'll be the post-apocalyptic medicine-men
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Jr: Sure it will.  We're people used to doing things for ourselved.
<sbalneav> Selves
<stgraber> highvoltage: any motu can vote IIRC
<highvoltage> ah I need to contact an admin
#edubuntu 2009-12-08
<sakhi> mooning
<alkisg> Good morning
<sbalneav> Morning all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<sbalneav> Morning HedgeMage
<alkisg> !info ltsp-docs lucid
<ubottu> ltsp-docs (source: ltsp-docs): LTSP Documentation. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.99+bzr91-1 (lucid), package size 365 kB, installed size 800 kB
<Ahmuck> anybody using ubuntu cloud computing?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Nope.  Can't.
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: can't in edubuntu?
<sbalneav> No, I can't no matter what I run.
<sbalneav> I work in the Legal industry.
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: what does that have to do with cloud computing?
<sbalneav> I get called to court by the judge to give a chain-of-custody testimony on some electronic evidence.  Judge says: "So, who had access to this data?"
<Ahmuck> *snark*
<sbalneav> "Potentially anyone in the cloud" isn't the correct answer.
<Ahmuck> that is the problem with the cloud
<Ahmuck> no privacy
<Ahmuck> i know big corps are pushing "internet only" apps, and cloud computing, because they want control of "all your data", but i can't see this working in the long run
<Ahmuck> my situatuion is that i was looking at teaching a class using hugin
<Ahmuck> and wondered if there was a way to offload the processes and stitching of hugin into the cloud
<mhall119|work> private clouds
<mhall119|work> are no different than private servers
<sbalneav> Cloud computing, IMHO, is the biggest freaking scam ever.  It's nothing being marketed as something.
<mhall119|work> it's something
<mhall119|work> it's just not what it's being hyped as being
<sbalneav> Yeah?  What is it.
<sbalneav> Tell me.
<mhall119|work> it's flexible deployment
<mhall119|work> and allocation
<sbalneav> That's another buzzword
<mhall119|work> it's being able to double your available resources in short order
<sbalneav> Servers can be flexibly deployed.  And allocated.
<sbalneav> How?
<mhall119|work> and back it down again when it's not needed
<sbalneav> How?
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: yes, they can be
<mhall119|work> and when there is a software product that does this for you, they call it cloud
<sbalneav> What software product?
<sbalneav> apt-get install <what>?
<mhall119|work> ecalyptus
<mhall119|work> eucalyptus
<sbalneav> Which requires that I re-write entire apps to handle this Cloud thing.
<sbalneav> which is distributed computing
<sbalneav> which I studied in university 20 PLUS YEARS AGO.
<sbalneav> like I say, it's nothing that hasn't been around since forever.
<sbalneav> and it's useless to ANYONE who actually cares about their data.
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: not quite distributed computing
<mhall119|work> a cloud doesn't appear as one big instance
<mhall119|work> it's more like dynamically-managed clustering
<sbalneav> Which has been around forever as well.
<sbalneav> it's just the latest buzzword for technologies that have been around for ages.
<sbalneav> i.e., it's nothing.
<sbalneav> Anyway, that's how I see it.  YMMV :)
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: so, would the software cloud do something like hugin?
<Ahmuck> ah, apps have to be re-written?
<Ahmuck> so in reality, there are prolly few apps that could even leverage the cloud environment?
<alkisg> Well, when it reaches the masses as "boot your device and you have everything without installing anything", it'll be something :)
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: I'm not familliar with hugin
<alkisg> You could even have "pay per use" programs there. No more extreme licensing fees for something that you use once in a while
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: it's a program to paste multiple pictures together into a panorama.
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: it's not a new idea, no, it's just something that is now going mainstream
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: in a cloud, you get an OS on each "node", your apps just have to be able to work in a clustered setup
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: ah, ok
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: think of Apache clustering
<mhall119|work> which has been around for a while
<mhall119|work> all that cloud computing lets you do is add and remove nodes from the cluster without having to reconfigure or restart anything
<alkisg> And management would be done centrally, so users won't have to install stuff, protect themselves from antivirus, backup etc etc
<alkisg> It's a nice idea, I hope it's implemented and marketed properly...
<mhall119|work> it's new in it's implementation, not it's design
<alkisg> Well selling apps in a different way is a different design
<mhall119|work> for example, you can buy a cluster of 5 virtual machines from Amazon to run hugin, and then when it get's featured on Slashdot or Fark, you can tell Amazon to give you 20 or 50 or 100 instances instead
<mhall119|work> until the demand dies back down, then you tell Amazon to go back to 5
<alkisg> Actually cloud has a lot in common with LTSP ;)
<alkisg> (cluster)
<Ahmuck> alkisg: how so?
<alkisg> People having dumb terminals and connecting to applications servers
<Ahmuck> well, that's what i thought
<Ahmuck> any chance of offloading office, etc. to the cloud ?
<Ahmuck> or anything for that matter, using ltsp server as a passthrough?
<Ahmuck> ie, while keeping ltsp as a server for other apps?
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: think of a cloud as a vague collection of individual computers
<mhall119|work> they don't act like a single computer, like distributed computing
<Ahmuck> agreed
<mhall119|work> but the actual number and location of the computers isn't important to you
<alkisg> Well I haven't read of any marketing plans, but I guess the future is in server based computing. So you'll have some dumb terminal at home and every app you want will be provided by some app server. Sure, LTSP can do that, and I hope it does...
<Ahmuck> that might be a problem for privacy
<Ahmuck> though quickbooks now uses google to do the searcing inside of it
<alkisg> Not if proper encryption is used
<Ahmuck> which i consder monsterarilsy dangerous
<alkisg> Why?
<Ahmuck> big brother
<alkisg> With encryption?
<alkisg> If your data is uploaded in an encrypted disk on the cloud, noone could read it without your key
<alkisg> But, if the company is untrusted, of course they could fake the encryption :D
<Ahmuck> well, my overactive imagination and paranoia kicks in here.  in that i don't believe anything is really encrypted
<Ahmuck> only believed to be encrypted
<alkisg> Right. Someone should check in depth all of those web space providers...
<mhall119|work> the biggest point about cloud computing that is often missed is that your cloud doesn't have to be hosted by a 3rd party
<Ahmuck> anywho, i know the plan for computing for the last 10 years has been to move users to "cloud" and web based apps.  i did run across that paper somewhere
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: light bulb just went on
<Ahmuck> in other words, one could build a cluster in house to offload to the server
<mhall119|work> what do you mean "to offload to the server"?
<Ahmuck> ie, what's happening then is ltsp server offloads it's load to the cluster in house
<Ahmuck> offload from the server
<Ahmuck> "in house"
<mhall119|work> uh, not quite
<Ahmuck> sorry, i've been irc speaking and im speaking for too long, as a result it breaks my normal conversation up
<Ahmuck> no?
<mhall119|work> can you cluster LTSP servers?
<mhall119|work> or is there always just one?
<Ahmuck> ltsp client --> resource hungry app --> ltsp server --> server load --> internal cloud (cluter)
<Ahmuck> er, cluster
<Ahmuck> iirc, i think you can cluster now, no?
<Ahmuck> for me it's just one
<mhall119|work> if you can cluster LTSP, then here is how you would use the cloud:
<mhall119|work> You have a 20 seat lab
<mhall119|work> so you have enough LTSP server instances to manage 20 seats
<mhall119|work> suddenly they need 100 seats for a special week long event
<mhall119|work> so you expand your cloud with enough LTSP servers to handle 100 seats
<mhall119|work> at the end of the week, you shrink your cloud back down again
<Ahmuck> k, that makes sence
<sbalneav> by what?  Returning the servers to the vendor? :)
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: no
<mhall119|work> by making those servers available to something else
<Ahmuck> i was thinking more along the lines, i have a 20 seat lab which is used for OO.o, firefox, edu apps.
<Ahmuck> then i want to teach class2 of hugin, the part where we take each user's set of photos for a gigapan, ie, 180 photos,
<mhall119|work> here's where cloud computing is going:
<Ahmuck> upload them to the server,
<mhall119|work> say you have an idea for a cool new webapp, like hugin
<Ahmuck> and then start the control point finding and stitching
<mhall119|work> you get some startup funding, and buy yourself a couple of heft servers
<Ahmuck> this requires huge memory and processing resources
<mhall119|work> you can handle 1000 sessions a day
<mhall119|work> suddenly you're the hot new thing, and you're getting 1,000,000 sessions a day
<mhall119|work> now, you have a private cloud on servers you manage
<Ahmuck> so, offloading this to the another "cluster" to do the work, which can be done with text .pto files would work
<mhall119|work> but, in the near future, you can grown that cloud onto Amazon's servers too
<Ahmuck> and wouldn't affect the other 10 clients in the other classroom
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: I don't think any cloud offerings currently do that for you
<mhall119|work> you'd have to manage the offloading yourself
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: actually your explanation helped out a lot
<Ahmuck> Elasticity
<Ahmuck> Applications can dynamically use more resources within the cloud when required ensuring users needs are met immediately.
<mhall119|work> right
<Ahmuck> Bursting
<Ahmuck> Overloaded applications running on your private cloud can expand to use resources from the public cloud.
<Ahmuck> this was from ubuntu's cloud page
<mhall119|work> that's not available yet, last I heard
<Ahmuck> which made me wonder if it was possible
<mhall119|work> but is coming
<Ahmuck> that's what i was looking for
<sbalneav> so long as, and this is key here, your application is written using a very specific set of libraries.
<mhall119|work> again, though, it doesn't offload them
<mhall119|work> it just adds someone else's servers to your cloud
<Ahmuck> try putting 10 students into a room doing a monthly journal, etc. and let them upload photos on each page
<Ahmuck> it comes to a grinding halt
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: you can run a generic Ubuntu Server instance in the cloud
<mhall119|work> the only specialization your software needs is the ability to manage a cluster of itself
<Ahmuck> using scribus
<Ahmuck> hrm, could that mean that a cluster managment plugin could be written that was universel enough that it could be dropped in applications without much trouble?
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: So I can create this cloud, and users log into their ltsp server, click on openoffice, and of the 30 machines in the cloud, each of them is only running 1-2 openoffice sessions?
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: if LTSP cna be clustered, and you have some available resources, then cloud computing would let you make a bigger cluster during that class
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: I don't know about LTSP specifically, how it does server clustering
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: not really, no
<mhall119|work> clustering is pretty implementation-specific
<sbalneav> By having multiple ltsp servers, and round-robining entire sessions amongst all the boxes.
<sbalneav> but that's clustered LTSP servers
<Ahmuck> i recall attempting a bewolf cluster with some 500mhz machines way back in the day
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: round robin through DNS?
<sbalneav> we're talking about a cloud that I *just* want for one application.  Openoffice.
<sbalneav> All my other apps run fine on one box.
<mhall119|work> cloud instances run an OS, not individual applications
<Ahmuck> clustering software iirc
<sbalneav> So they're virtual servers, then.
<sbalneav> No different from having a KVM or vmware pool, like I have today.
<alkisg> Doesn't cloud also contain software as a service, not only platform as a service?
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: correct
<mhall119|work> in fact, Eucalyptus uses KVM instances
<mhall119|work> all cloud does is give you management tools on top of them
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: thank you. Cloud == all the stuff I already have + nice frontend. :)
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: yes
<sbalneav> And that's my point.  Cloud's nothing but all the stuff we already have, just a shiny new management interface.
<alkisg> Well, the web is also just apps & data, which we already had :)
<sbalneav> Oh, and people putting up public servers for nothing, so long as you don't mind/don't have legislation against storing customer/student/your data on publicly available machines.
<sbalneav> here's my problem with the whole thing:
<sbalneav> it's being sold to people as a panacea that will solve all their problems.  Guys like Ahmuck.
<Ahmuck> :p
<sbalneav> No money? CLOUD No resources? CLOUD better expandability? CLOUD!!!!!!
<Ahmuck> heh, the less time i have to figure is the more time i have to take panographs :)
<sbalneav> then, when you actually figure it out, it's the same thing we've had all along.
<sbalneav> I'd bet $20 Ahmuck's got legislation covering student data that will prevent him from migrating ONE CPU CYCLE off of stuff he controls into the public cloud.
<sbalneav> so, he's forced to build his own cloud.
<sbalneav> but "his own cloud" doesn't (really) solve any problems for him.
<sbalneav> he's still gotta buy machines
<sbalneav> still gotta set 'em up
<sbalneav> still gotta fix 'em when they break.
<alkisg> sbalneav: look after our retirement, some decades later. Dumb terminals. No administration at all. Power on. Select application or site. Power off. No viruses to worry about, no data loss to worry about, no formats etc. It'll happen.
<sbalneav> THAT's what I object to.  The marketing that "Cloud computing will revolutionize everything" when cloud computing ISN'T anything revolutionary.
<sbalneav> alkisg: No it wont.
<alkisg> It isn't. It's just a product, not something for scientific research...
<sbalneav> Who's going to pay for all those boxes?
<sbalneav> And who's going to guarentee your data's integrity?
<alkisg> Companies will emerge which will only have the hardware
<sbalneav> backups?
<alkisg> Other companies will rent hardware and run software on them
<alkisg> Who's backing up your gmail?
<sbalneav> Don't have gmail
<alkisg> OK, but you do understand what I mean... :)
<sbalneav> Sure.
<sbalneav> till you lose your gmail.
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: i was looking for this: overloaded applications running on your private cloud can expand to use resources from the public cloud, Applications can dynamically use more resources within the cloud when required ensuring users needs are met immediately.
<sbalneav> just like those cell phone customers at dangerous.
<Ahmuck> those two things
<alkisg> If I'm paying, I won't lose it
<sbalneav> alkisg: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<alkisg> Customers always pay. They'll pay less for hardware, and more for software...
<sbalneav> just like those cell phone customers were paying?
<sbalneav> You're funny.
<alkisg> I don't know the story...
<alkisg> But why, do you lose your back account data?
<alkisg> I wouldn't deposit money on banks then...
<sbalneav> Right, but the bank HAS to have my data, I'm not expected to.
<sbalneav> Who's responsible for the "cloud"?
<Ahmuck> ur taxes
<sbalneav> My taxes?
<alkisg> Who's responsible for the internet?
<sbalneav> My taxes in canada are going to yahoo's cloud servers?
<sbalneav> really?
<Ahmuck> actually there is a good case here
<Ahmuck> UPS has electronic billing
<Ahmuck> and if you don't pick up your invoice within a specified time period, they won't let you have it
<Ahmuck> which is bunk
<sbalneav> and Ahmuck, like I say, I bet there's NO WAY from a legislation point of view you're ALLOWED to put student information on a cloud device, for Student Privacy concerns.
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: in some part, international trade agreements
<Ahmuck> personal private information
<Ahmuck> ie, personal details
<Ahmuck> but i doubt it would cover the use of the cloud to do proc and mem intensive things like control point finding and stitching
<Ahmuck> sorry, catching up
<sbalneav> So if the kid wants to make a hugin wallpaper of himself and his family at the field, and some pedo manages to get ahold of that, and sees what the kid looks like, and snatches him.her...
<Ahmuck> there are so many other ways to get photos.  kids are uploading photos of themselves without parent's consent all the time
<sbalneav> and you're up in front of the judge/your district IT manager, and he/she says "So what did you do to ensure the privacy opf this kids data"
<sbalneav> you say.... What?
<Ahmuck> that's why we have a sheet that says you can do this or that
<Ahmuck> if they go outside those rules, the responsiblity falls back on them
<Ahmuck> same as if they decided to throw a rock in a window
<sbalneav> ok, but there's a difference between the kid choosing to upload to facebook, and you, as the responsible admin who's supposed to know better, providing school services which FORCE the kid to upload information to public servers.
<Ahmuck> whose going to gain access to that public server?
<Ahmuck> encryption iirc, was mentioned
<sbalneav> ANYONE ON THE INTERNET
<sbalneav> Orly?
<sbalneav> what encryption?
<sbalneav> Do you know it's safe?
<sbalneav> how good is it?
<alkisg> How do we know that our bank won't steal our money from us?
<sbalneav> Can you stand up, in a court of law, and say YOU KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that NO ONE had access to the data?
<Ahmuck> no, but i doubt you could do that with private servers
<sbalneav> alkisg: because we get printed statements, and we're supposed to keep track of our finances.
<Ahmuck> heh heh, sbalneav the banks did steal money from us.  via a 700 billion dollar bailout
<Ahmuck> then they took the homes back
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: You can if they're not connected to the internet.
<Ahmuck> then they bulldozed some of them
<alkisg> So if they print that you withdrew 1000$ with your card, how are you going to prove that you didn't?
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: no, some really bright kid gets past security, and you'll find it in the www.  it happens all the time
<Ahmuck> there is no such thing a security, only the veil of it
 * sbalneav shrugs
<sbalneav> Hey, you guys do what you want, not my problem, or my job.
<sbalneav> But take it from someone who's BEEN in front of judges for chain of custody matters.
<Ahmuck> i don't disagree, i prefer private information on private servers, however, i don't have an issue with offloading mathematical caculations to a server cluster
<sbalneav> But I'd suggest checking with your relevant legislation and/or IT executive committee before "clouding" your it operation.
<sbalneav> And possibly your personal lawyer :)
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: if your point is that putting information on servers you don't control raises privacy and secrecy concerns, then yes, you're right
<sbalneav> Right
<mhall119|work> if your point is that clouds are more dangerous than existing server setups, I disagree
<sbalneav> Never said that.
<mhall119|work> then an internal, private cloud is no more dangerous than an internal, private server
<sbalneav> Correct.
<sbalneav> But then, you don't need a cloud, if you're going to do it all internally
<mhall119|work> and your Flickr pictures are just as insecure if they use a standard cluster as they would be if they used a cloud
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: clouds can still be useful internally
<sbalneav> I disagree.  But I've had enough.  I lose, you all win. :)
<mhall119|work> no!
<mhall119|work> I have analogies!
<mhall119|work> to cars!
<mhall119|work> you can't quit now
<sbalneav> I've conceded
<mhall119|work> dammit
<sbalneav> go play in your clouds
<sbalneav> I got bugs to fix :)
 * mhall119|work wishes he had a cloud
<mhall119|work> my server has no VMX
<Ahmuck> angels have a higher priorty than bugs :)
<Ahmuck> they play in the clouds :)
<mhall119|work> but angels don't need fixing
<Ahmuck> heh, wonder what angel is playing around in the ubuntu cloud today
<Ahmuck> :p
<sbalneav> On matters of things you can implement/play with TODAY :p
<sbalneav> I (with federico's help) have released the latest sabayon
<sbalneav> 2.29.2
<sbalneav> I'll have official builds up in my ppa later today.
<mhall119|work> congrats!
<Ahmuck> i recently used italc from my office and montioring the labs.  interesting feature
<sbalneav> gotta get a lucid build there too.
<sbalneav> This sabayon has manuals, and will be the first one that, other than a minor patch, basically runs upstream-clean on Ubuntu.
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: deserves an award :)
<sbalneav> So, if anyone had their 'druthers, what burning bug/issue should I work on next.  I've got some merges left to do, but out of the bugsquad bugs, what's a PITA for people?
<mhall119|work> make sabayon run on a cloud
<mhall119|work> sorry, couldn't resist
 * sbalneav slaps mhall119|work with a trout.
<mhall119|work> though making it work with XFCE would be nice, but probably not feasible
<mhall119|work> or LXDE
<sbalneav> XFCE/LXDE doesn't work with gconf, does it?
<sbalneav> it should do SOME stuff for you
<sbalneav> if they use xdg menus, they'll pick that up.
<sbalneav> and any settings that get made in the home dir should get picked up.
<Ahmuck> one of those "overloaded" issues is windows app artrage
<Ahmuck> teaching art with it is nice, teaching art with it on underpowerd thin clients, not so nice
<mhall119|work> XFCE is changing their configuration settings daemon around
<mhall119|work> not sure what they use
<sbalneav> "artrage"
<sbalneav> ?
<mhall119|work> it was xfconf in 9.04
<mhall119|work> but I think they were changing again
<mhall119|work> maybe to use dconf
<alkisg> sbalneav: keep your strength for dbus merging for LTSP ;) You're the only one that can do it!
<sbalneav> alkisg: ugh.  It sucks being the only real C programmer :(
<alkisg> sbalneav: yup, so stop trying to be a packager/maintainer
<alkisg> Do some *real* work :P :D
<alkisg> ...and leave the kid stuff for kids :D
<sbalneav> And we have howmany packager/maintainers here on this merry little band of misfits?
<sbalneav> :)
<alkisg> Erm... urm... :D
<sbalneav> Exactly
<sbalneav> alkisg: I've made you upstream, when are YOU gonna be a packager slackass :)
<sbalneav> I mean, geez :)
<sbalneav> Oh, yeah
<sbalneav> I forgot
<alkisg> Hey, I've packaged more apps than anyone here
<alkisg> Many Gb of them
<sbalneav> Yeah, but you don't have upload, right?
<alkisg> But they all used the same template :P :D
<sbalneav> That's the problem, we need more people who can upload.
<alkisg> Sure, I'd like to go for MOTU like you one day
<sbalneav> alkisg: lets both go through the process together.
<sbalneav> then we;ve got 3
<sbalneav> hv, you and me.
<alkisg> Hmm... sounds good...
<Ahmuck> i'd do it *if* i had some direction and training
<sbalneav> I'll teach what I know so far, later tonight, if anyone's interested.
<alkisg> sbalneav: did you apply somewhere?
<alkisg> I.e. put packages in revu?
<sbalneav> Not yet, I have to get one more package done before I'm "a shoe-in"
<sbalneav> Then I'm gonna submit them all.  ogra and LaserJock have said they'll coach me though the approval process.
<sbalneav> I want to get it by end of december if I can
<alkisg> Well I imagine it won't be much more trouble for them if they coach me too...
<sbalneav> Sure.
 * alkisg will be here later on to watch sbalneav's lessons :)
<sbalneav> that's what I;m saying, more uploaders we have, the better.
<sbalneav> OK, tarballs for sabayon-2.29.2 are out out out!
<sbalneav> I'm gonna push a new version, gimme 10
<highvoltage> sbalneav: cool. planning on uploading anything to revu soon?
<sbalneav> highvoltage: I've got one more merge I want to do.
<sbalneav> then I'll blast 3 or 4 things up in one shot, and hit you and ogra up for help
<sbalneav> Think I can make motu by end of december?
<highvoltage> sbalneav: oh for sure!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: oh sorry I thought you meant December 2010 :p
<highvoltage> sbalneav: well there's lots of holidays, etc in December, I think there's a chance though.
<sbalneav> sabayon_2.29.2-0ubuntu1~ppa3
<sbalneav> just uploaded to my ppa
<sbalneav> With the exception of 1 *very tiny* patch to change the icon to a gksu sabayon, this one runs on ubuntu with no other modifications
<sbalneav> \o/
 * alkisg applauses for the new master of the universe (to be)
<highvoltage> cool. do you uuencode it or use the new fancy source package format that allows binary diffs?
<sbalneav> erm
<sbalneav> I use dput :)
<sbalneav> is that choice a or b? :)
<highvoltage> I meant for the icon patch :)
<sbalneav> ah, no
<sbalneav> it uses cdbs
<sbalneav> for the patch.  it's the .desktop file that gets patched.
<highvoltage> ah ok
<sbalneav> Sorry, I was less than clear.
<highvoltage> np
<sbalneav> Oooo
<sbalneav> crumb
<sbalneav> Rejected:
<sbalneav> File sabayon_2.29.2.orig.tar.gz already exists in PPA for Scott Balneaves, but uploaded version has different contents. See more information about this error
<sbalneav> +in https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors.
<sbalneav> Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<sbalneav> grumble
<sbalneav> gotta delete the one from my ppa first...
<alkisg> sbalneav: I don't think it'll accept it easily without bumping the version...
<sbalneav> Well, we'll try.
<sbalneav> Sigh, I bumped the local packaging tarball number.  Shouldn't have done that.
 * sbalneav facepalms
<sbalneav> eurgh
<sbalneav> yeah
<highvoltage> just the tarball?
<sbalneav> lemme see if I can ping ogra
<sbalneav> yeah
<sbalneav> I need to ditch the tarball in my ppa
<highvoltage> you should probably dch -i and increment it in the actual package source and then rebuild it from there
<sbalneav> anyway I can do that?
<sbalneav> Well, here's what happened.
<highvoltage> I don't know, increasing the version sounds like The Right Thing to do
<alkisg> sbalneav: If you don't want to increment the source version, I think it'll be easier if you just give me the package, so I upload it to my ppa, and you copy it from there :P :D
<alkisg> Heh
<sbalneav> So, since I'm upstream for sabayon now, I've been working on the 2.29.2 version
<sbalneav> so, I've been creating 2.29.2 source tarballs.
<sbalneav> We've done a release, last step was to update news and read,e
<sbalneav> so, we've now got a released tarball.
<sbalneav> problem is, released tarball and my previous tarball are ever so slightly different.
<sbalneav> and I want to release the package with the official upstream tarball
<sbalneav> there's gotta be a way to ditch the existing tarball in my ppa.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: so the upstream tarball changed without a change in version number?
<sbalneav> well, *I* was producing the upstream tarball, yeah.
<sbalneav> I suppose I should call them (when I work on them) 2.29.x-prerelease or something from now on
<highvoltage> sounds like a good idea :)
<sbalneav> Which is fine for future reference...
<sbalneav> How do I fix this? :)
<alkisg> Shouldn't that be 2.29.x~prerelease ?
<sbalneav> well, whatever I call my "working" tarballs for upstream releases.
<highvoltage> alkisg: sbalneav is talking about the upstream package version number, not the package in the ppa's version number
<sbalneav> I'll ask later in #launchpad tonight.
<highvoltage> alkisg: and upstream can pretty much version just how they want to
<alkisg> Ah, so launchpad would accept a "lower" version of the upstream package?
<alkisg> *tarball
<sbalneav> I'm sure someone there can help me ditch the tarball
<alkisg> OK, got it
<alkisg> sbalneav: I think also in #ubuntu-motu they may be able to help you...
<sbalneav> could try there.
<alkisg> But when that happened to me, I just put the package to another ppa of mine, and copied the binaries :D
#edubuntu 2009-12-09
<cprofitt> dinda you here?
<cprofitt> stgraber: you here?
<cprofitt> highvoltage: perhaps you?
<mhall119> thanks for noticing me
<cprofitt> lol
<cprofitt> I was just about to get to you mhall119
<cprofitt> how could one not after yesterday's meeting :-)
<mhall119> sure you were
<Ahmuck> meeting yesterday?
<cprofitt> There was a membership meeting yesterday
<cprofitt> mhall119: was present
<Ahmuck> hrm, i missed a meeting
<mhall119> ubuntu membership
<mhall119> not edubuntu membership
<cprofitt> is Ubuntu membership different
<cprofitt> so they are different
<cprofitt> I guess I need to apply for Edubuntu Membership too, heh?
<mhall119> edubuntu membership gets you ubuntu membership too
<cprofitt> Well... I am already an Ubuntu member
<mhall119> then it'll be easier
<cprofitt> most of what got me Uubntu membership I think would likely count...
<cprofitt> presenting at education conferences etc
<cprofitt> I am not a developer though
<cprofitt> mhall119: how often does the Edubuntu membership group meet?
<mhall119> cprofitt: I don't know
<mhall119> you can apply to the Launchpad team
<mhall119> if you're already an Ubuntu member, I'm not even sure what voting has to be done
 * mhall119 is not an Edubuntu member
<cprofitt> mhall119: I assume from all I see you doing that you will be eligible for it soon...
<cprofitt> or should I say you will have earned it
<mhall119> yeah, I'm waiting to apply until I feel like I've done something for edubuntu
<mhall119> which I keep promising to do
<cprofitt> mhall119: I waited a real long time too.
<mhall119> I got my Ubuntu membership
<mhall119> for the work I've done with the community
<mhall119> I just have to get my damned XFCE configs fixed for my Qimo packages
<mhall119> so I can contribute those
<mhall119> gonna have to go bug the #xfce and #xubuntu guys again I'm afraid
<cprofitt> cool...
<cprofitt> my only real contribution to Edubuntu would be the presentations -- everything else is contributions to Ubuntu
<cprofitt> so, I like you, will probably wait until have done more for Edubuntu
<sbalneav> Evening all
<mhall119> evening sbalneav
<mhall119> and good night all
<sbalneav> night!
<sbalneav> Let clouds of angels sing thee to thy sleep :)
<mhall119> they were, until someone broke in and stole them
<sbalneav> Serves you right then.
<sbalneav> Should have listened to me :)
<sbalneav> BUT NO!
<mhall119> lol
<mhall119> tis better to have clouded and lost, then to never have clouded at all
<sbalneav> foo
<sbalneav> Anyone here interested in "What I know about packaging so far, by Scott L. Balneaves, esq."?
<mhall119> sure
<mhall119> tomorrow perhaps
 * mhall119 has a python app he wants to package
<Ahmuck> ?
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: sure, give me a link to the book
<sbalneav> No book, I was just going to walk people through what I know so far.
<sbalneav> I'm using the "packaging guide complete" on the ubuntu wiki.
<researcher1> which application in UBUNTU can provide One teacher terminal and many student terminals? I want to watch my students laboratory PCs  &  reply their individual   questions
<sbalneav> italc I beleive's the app you want
<researcher1> which application in UBUNTU can provide One teacher terminal and many student terminals?
<sbalneav> Like I said before
<sbalneav> iTalc :)
<sbalneav> researcher1: You there?
<researcher1> yes
<researcher1> please?
<sbalneav> Please what?
<researcher1> shoudl I try iTalk?
<sbalneav> You're looking for something that will allow a teacher to control several LTSP thin clients, right?
<researcher1> yes
<sbalneav> !package italc-master
<sbalneav> !italc-master
<researcher1> rather the teacher will be able to see students Desktops from his mater terminal
<sbalneav> ubottu: details italc-master
<researcher1> and teacher will be able to speak with individual student through his headphone
<sbalneav> huh, bot's not responding
<sbalneav> well, it doesn't handle voice connections.
<researcher1> i expect it handles voice connections. But weel
<researcher1> well it will still serve the good purpose
<sbalneav> then look into italc.
<sbalneav> as fo voice, you could use something like empathy.
<researcher1> how do i install it?Im on UBUNTU 9.10 64 bit
<sbalneav> Search for italc in synaptic package manager.
<researcher1> ok.trying
<researcher1> im surprised to see for the first time Im getting strange errors
<researcher1> Synaptic never failed to open but now cant open
<researcher1> shows these errors can u help
<sbalneav> I'd need to know what the error is.
<researcher1> E: Type 'q' is not known on line 52 in source list /etc/apt/sources.list
<researcher1> E: The list of sources could not be read.
<researcher1> Go to the repository dialog to correct the problem.
<researcher1> E: _cache->open() failed, please report.
<sbalneav> Have you edited your /etc/apt/sources.list?
<researcher1> no
<sbalneav> Really?
<researcher1> recently I ran the following commands
<researcher1> sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list
<sbalneav> wow
<researcher1> hen tried git-clone http://git.c3sl.ufpr.br/pub/scm/multiseat/mdm.git
<sbalneav> what the heck did you do that for?
<sbalneav> You've buggered up your sources.list
<sbalneav> restore it from the backups you made of it before you started to edit it.
<researcher1> oh. I was suggested by UBUNTU chat
<sbalneav> I think you misunderstood the instructions.
<researcher1> oh. Im new in experimentation here
<sbalneav> So, I'd restore the sources.list from your backups.
<researcher1> ok
<researcher1> I have edited /etc/apt/sources.list
<sbalneav> ok, so does synaptic start now?
<researcher1> synaptec now running
<researcher1> serached iTalk. Not found
<sbalneav> not italk
<sbalneav> italc
<researcher1> ok,.got italc
<sbalneav> with a c
<sbalneav> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
<researcher1> yes.got it
<sbalneav> there's a web page on it.
<sbalneav> I personally don't use it, so other than knowing that's what you should use, I don't know much about it.
<researcher1> ok.thansk
<researcher1> c u soon
<researcher1> bye
<sakhi> mooning
<researcher1>  im have on home PC  ubuntu 9.10 64 bit & office pc has ubuntu 9.10 32 bit.I have italc installed on home PC which I want to take to office pc.Whats the best way to do this?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav
<mhall119|work> morning
<gutts77> can someone help with patching drivers for atheros chipset. trying to use aircrack for a school project
<sbalneav> Not really the kind of support we do here in #edubuntu
<sbalneav> Might have better luck in #ubuntu
<gutts77> ok thanks
 * popey waves 
<sbalneav> hello
#edubuntu 2009-12-10
 * Lns delay-waves
<cprofitt> hello all
<cprofitt> stgraber: are you here?
<madcat> Hi why can't I access a localapp within Gnome's menu, I've followed the guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty - but when I run ltsp-localapps xterm, ps ax | grep office it's not there!
<madcat> Hi is someone here?
<cprofitt> I am here
<madcat> can you help me with my question?
<madcat> > Hi why can't I access a localapp within Gnome's menu, I've followed the guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPLocalAppsJaunty - but when I run ltsp-localapps xterm, ps ax | grep office it's not there!
<madcat> Oh is it for an edubuntu?
<madcat> There seems to be no one in ltsp right now
<cprofitt> ooh... you have me on that... I do not have experience doing that.
<cprofitt> I appologize for not being able to answer that question
<madcat> No problem, thanks for replying, it's the thought that counts... :)
<madcat> ok bye have a nice day!
<Sarten-X> so
<Sarten-X> I have the edubuntu image downloaded, and need to make a USB drive that can install it
<Sarten-X> Offhand, I can't find the instructions to do this, but it's altogether possible i'm being blind again
<sbalneav> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
<sbalneav> google for ubuntu iso flash drive
<sbalneav> very first link
<Sarten-X> thanks
<alkisg> !info italc-master
<ubottu> italc-master (source: italc): Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers (master part). In component main, is optional. Version 1:1.0.9.1-0ubuntu16 (karmic), package size 1081 kB, installed size 1680 kB
<nubae_> yo yo... didja know u can embed google wave straight into your web pages... takes a looksie: www.nubae.com
<mhall119|work> nubae_: yeah, that was on their demonstration video
<ogra> nubae__, hey, you werent around, i tried to point you to the requests to remove sugar from ubuntu when it was recent (might be removed by now) to give you chance to react
<nubae__> ogra, ah ok
<nubae__> I'm not the maintainer though.... not sure who is
#edubuntu 2009-12-11
<Ahmuck> http://www.dimdim.com/products/dimdim_integrations.html
 * Ahmuck pings the forum
<Ahmuck> i'm looking at doing some live tutorails for our lug, and educational venture
<Ahmuck> this of course is outside the standard ltsp installation and is via the web
<Ahmuck> looking at intergrations in dimdim, i notice moodle, and some other tools
<Ahmuck> are there others i should consider?
<alkisg> highvoltage: who can vote for the edubuntu council? Only the edubuntu members?
<highvoltage> alkisg: yep
<alkisg> Ah, thanks, I thought it was open to all launchpad members :)
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck-Jr> hi sbalneav
#edubuntu 2009-12-12
<Ahmuck-Jr> ltsp uses server hardware, however i just stumbled upon drbl
<Ahmuck-Jr> which is a distributed system.  a cloud?
<sbalneav> http://drbl.sourceforge.net/faq/
<sbalneav> Second link from the top
<sbalneav> drbl = ltsp fat clients
<sbalneav> everything runs on the client hardware.
<Ahmuck-Jr> so why not use drbl?
<Ahmuck-Jr> rather than ltsp?
<sbalneav> Who should use drbl?
<Ahmuck-Jr> nubae script does fat clients, but doesn this as well?
<Ahmuck-Jr> well, anybody
<sbalneav> Maybe you don't have clients powerful enough to run everything on them
<sbalneav> a 128 meg pentium 3 will make a nice ltsp thin client
<Ahmuck-Jr> the clients run better standalone
<Ahmuck-Jr> 1ghz, 512mb ram
<sbalneav> Yeah, so?
<Ahmuck-Jr> sbalneav: ok, well, i'm here this evening.  so, i need to figure out what's causing my slooooowdown on my nice thin clients
<sbalneav> Run drble if you want
<Ahmuck-Jr> let's start with firefox crashing
<sbalneav> No one forces you to run LTSP :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> let me do some reading again on firefox and localapps, i'll check there
<Ahmuck-Jr> sbalneav: what i keep wondering is why ltsp keeps getting pushed as a "classroom" solution rather than say LDAP/NFS/NBD or DRBL
<sbalneav> Because hundreds of thousands of people use it worldwide.
<sbalneav> And it's been under continuous development and support for 10+ years.
<sbalneav> and lots and lots of classrooms don't HAVE good up-to-date hardware, they have older stuff they want to use.
<Ahmuck-Jr> hundreds of people used to drive model A - Fords, but and for 10 years or more, but they no longer do so
<sbalneav> So, don't use LTSP :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> can you name a classroom with antiquated hardware?
<sbalneav> Sure
<sbalneav> tons
<sbalneav> My son's
<Ahmuck-Jr> i can't in my area
<sbalneav> every single solitary classroom in Brazil
<Ahmuck-Jr> the government and ms has made a deal and they are all on better hardware than my best machine
<sbalneav> You're using your first world thinking again.
<Ahmuck-Jr> recently one of the schools sold all thier 2ghz, 256mb ram machines for 3.00/machine
<sbalneav> OK, so use tsomething else then.
<sbalneav> *I* don't care WHAT you use.
<Ahmuck-Jr> that's not my point.  my point is edubuntu, etc. only looking at the ltsp portion?
<Ahmuck-Jr> and only promoting it?  why not alternatives
<Ahmuck-Jr> for those that can use it
<sbalneav> Because edubuntu only has two people working on it who know about, and care about, thin clients and classrooms
<sbalneav> and both of them happen to be LTSP developers.
<Ahmuck-Jr> hrm, where is the edubuntu pages?  i'm going to assign someone in my office to make a simpler tutorail for using ubuntu and rdbl or LDAP/NFS/NDB
<Ahmuck-Jr> *sigh*
<sbalneav> If you'd like to promote drbl, then go ahead, by *all* means.
<sbalneav> Just make sure you're here
<sbalneav> day in
<sbalneav> day out
<sbalneav> unpaid
<sbalneav> like me, to support it :)
<sbalneav> LTSP's been around the longest
<sbalneav> There's a LOT of ltsp out there
<sbalneav> k12ltsp, l12linux, skolelinux
<sbalneav> they're ALL using LTSP.
<Ahmuck-Jr> aren't you paid by your company?
<sbalneav> I'm paid by Legal Aid Manitoba to administer Legal Aid's computers
<sbalneav> LTSP development happens on my own dime, on my own time.
<Ahmuck-Jr> a little sour tonight sbalneav ?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> Just stating a fact.
<sbalneav> You asked, I told you.
<sbalneav> You also asked why we didn't promote drbl, and that's simply because no one here KNOWS drbl
<Ahmuck-Jr> ok, that's what i needed to know
<Ahmuck-Jr> thanks
<sbalneav> I'm here all night, if you want a hand with your firefox issue, let me know.
<Ahmuck-Jr> i noticed bugs about sound again
<Ahmuck-Jr> coming through
<sbalneav> Pulse looks like it's got problems.
<Ahmuck-Jr> ok, well i'm here.  let me locate the documentation on ltsp and local apps and make sure everything is in place
<Ahmuck-Jr> i don't have the memory to remember what i did last week, i have to read and re-read
<sbalneav> I suspect pulse's network code has some bugs.
<sbalneav> LTSP tends to excercise bugs in a lot of code that "normally" doesn't get executed.
<Ahmuck-Jr> another question.  i notice that from release to release it seems there's always something different one has to do to get something to work.  is this because of rapidly changing libraries?  backward compatibility is not built in anymore?
<sbalneav> No, linux in general has, for the last 2-3 years, been rapidly loosing its roots.
<Ahmuck-Jr> as in the way it used to handle things?
<sbalneav> It bothers me quite a bit, because Linux, it seems, has now determined that the way it wants to go is to be another microsoft.
<Ahmuck-Jr> roots as in /etc/fstab, etc.
<sbalneav> correct.
<sbalneav> everything's dbus, policykit, etc.
<Ahmuck-Jr> yes, i agree.  it's getting hard to find the moving target
<Ahmuck-Jr> whose to blame?  users, developers or distros?
<sbalneav> it's added a LOT of complexity, and, as far as I've seen, has had absolutely NO real benefit.
<Ahmuck-Jr> how do you fix it, go back to a starting point and re-write?
<Ahmuck-Jr> wouldn't this affect apps as well?
<sbalneav> Users for demanding Linux look and act exactly like windows, distros for pushing devels to give the users what they want, devels for giving in, IMHO
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'm a user of sorts.  i like the gui.  however when the i had problems in gui mode i knew i could always drop to command line and find a man page or --help or something and do it from there.  it's getting harder to do things from command line
<Ahmuck-Jr> all the changes are confusing for us old guys
<sbalneav> yes, it's becoming increasingly difficult to get anything done.
<sbalneav> for someone like me who learned his unix back in the 80's, it's very frustrating
<sbalneav> But the command line has been more or less officially declared A Bad Thing (c)(r), and so...
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/12/lucid-to-get-aero-style-rgba.html
<Ahmuck-Jr> :) just for u :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> whoa, i think you just might be older than i
<Ahmuck-Jr> your what, 82 now ?
<sbalneav> 41
<Ahmuck-Jr> lol
<sbalneav> I learned unix back when I was in high school
<sbalneav> in '85
<Ahmuck-Jr> i went to private school, but no computer
<Ahmuck-Jr> i shuddered at the thought sitting in front of a computer ... till i saw a dos prompt
<Ahmuck-Jr> in 92
<sbalneav> I knew more about programming Commodore 64's than my high school Computer Teacher did, so to get me out of the classroom so I'd quit correcting his mistakes, I was given an account on the new "unux" system on the "glass tty" (a vt100 terminal) that they were handing out to the schools.
<sbalneav> At that point, the internet had Telnet, FTP, and RFC 822 had been published the year before, and sendmail 0.8mumblesomething was installed on the box.
<sbalneav> I learned to use email by reading RFC 822 :)
<sbalneav> To this day, I'm capable of hand crafting my emails by telnetting to port 25 :)
<Ahmuck-Jr> oooh, scary
<sbalneav> So, yeah, all this "no touchy-the-command-line-you-must-do-it-from-the-gui" stuff bothers me.
<sbalneav> Hence, the reason I packaged cnetworkmanager :)
<sbalneav> Hmm, installed gnash tonight
<sbalneav> I'm playing a flash video right now.
<Ahmuck-Jr> sooo, really there are three ways to run a classroom so far ... ltsp, drbl, and ldap/nfs/nbd
<sbalneav>  18:55:06 up 13 days,  9:32,  6 users,  load average: 0.08, 0.03, 0.00
<Ahmuck-Jr> using pupet and cfengine or cloning
<Ahmuck-Jr> what's ur client specs?
<sbalneav> one ghz via boards with one gig of ram.
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah ha.  it's the gig of ram
<sbalneav> But I run everything on the server.
<sbalneav> I don't run any localapps.
<Ahmuck-Jr> i'm going to do a new slogan.  don't believe the hype until you've seen the tripe
<Ahmuck-Jr> no localapps?  why the gig of ram then?
<sbalneav> When I updated them all 1.5 years ago, it was the best price point.
<sbalneav> I updated all 185 clients for $35,000
 * Ahmuck-Jr falls over
<sbalneav> was about 130 for the mobo, 45 for the stick of ram, and taxes :)
<sbalneav> I run all of Legal Aid Manitoba's systems, which is 6 sites spread over a 900 kilometer radius, for $75,000 per year
<sbalneav> That's all in
<sbalneav> all licenses, all datacomm costs, all hardware, all software, everything.
<sbalneav> Only thing that's not in there is salaries.
<Ahmuck-Jr> http://pastebin.be/22427
<Ahmuck-Jr> Manitoba, Africa?
<sbalneav> Manitoba Canada.
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah, ok
<sbalneav> We're Legal Aid.  No one wants to fund us. We're the poor cousins of govt.
<sbalneav> You probably don't want NBD_SWAP = True and USE_LOCAL_SWAP = True at the same time.
<Ahmuck-Jr> how's the weather?
<sbalneav> -17 C at the moment.
<Ahmuck-Jr> i've been thinking about tripping to CA, but more around Alberta
<sbalneav> s'posed to go down to -28 tonight.
<sbalneav> Alberta's beatiful, up in the mountains.
<Ahmuck-Jr> i don't think the local hard drives are formated
<Ahmuck-Jr> iirc, they were dbaned
<sbalneav> I'd turn off USE_LOCAL_SWAP.
<Ahmuck-Jr> what's hotel rates like there?
<sbalneav> You say they've got 512 megs of ram?
<sbalneav> depends.  If you're going to stay in Banff, prolly 200+ a night :)
 * Ahmuck-Jr falls over again
<sbalneav> If you're going to stay in a small town, probably 59 bucks at the super 8
<Ahmuck-Jr> super8,  that's larger than i was thinking about
<sbalneav> Banff is *the* tourist attraction, so it'd be like staying at the Mariott times square.
<sbalneav> It depends on where you're planning on going.
<Ahmuck-Jr> somewhere remote, homey
<sbalneav> Small town, locally run hotels tend to run anywhere from $35 -> $60 bucks a night.
<sbalneav> B&B's can be even cheaper.
<Ahmuck-Jr> ah, and cozier
<Ahmuck-Jr> friendlier
<Ahmuck-Jr> in chroot, i need to install firefox and flashplugin-nonfree - flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound
<sbalneav> Not sure about the extrasound.
<sbalneav> But firefox and flashplugin-nonfree for sure.
<Ahmuck-Jr> k, i did not have flash installed in the chroot before
<Ahmuck-Jr> i assume this may have been my flash issue
<Ahmuck-Jr> for some reason, i was under the impression that someone stated if firefox was a localapp, then flash was too
<Ahmuck-Jr> where does the tradeoff between localapp and serverapp start?
<Ahmuck-Jr> scribus-ng for example?
<sbalneav> Well, scribus should make a good server app
<sbalneav> It will generate load while it starts
<sbalneav> but once it's running, it's load is ONLY based upon user input.
<sbalneav> So if the user's not doing anything, it's not generating any load at all
<sbalneav> OpenOffice.org's another good example.
<sbalneav> firefox + flash is the opposite end of the spectrum.  User can be generating scads of cpu time, even tho' they're doing "nothing"
<Ahmuck-Jr> ie, user input, digital camera images?
<Ahmuck-Jr> sooo, looking at the manual, every server update also requires a ltsp choot update as well
<sbalneav> Ideally, yes.
<Ahmuck-Jr> local_apps_menu does what?
<Ahmuck-Jr> btw, u stated u were not utilizing localapps on your thin clients?
<sbalneav> Correct
<Ahmuck-Jr> sooo, how are you not crashing in 9.10 with firefox/flash?  is this a pulse problem for us?
<sbalneav> Well, at work, I'm using 8.04
<sbalneav> At home I use 9.10
<Ahmuck-Jr> that explains it
<sbalneav> Could be pulse, could be several things.
<Ahmuck-Jr> 8.04 was more stable for ltsp
<Ahmuck-Jr> pulse was stable in 8.04
<sbalneav> No, actually not
<Ahmuck-Jr> for me it was
<sbalneav> 8.04 had TONS of problems with firefox
<Ahmuck-Jr> before 9.10 i was looking at regressing
<sbalneav> until stgraber figured out the bug in the X libs.
<Ahmuck-Jr> perhaps it was 8.10 i had sucess with
<sbalneav> once stgraber tracked that down, then things got better.
<sbalneav> again, many "ltsp" bugs aren't ANYTHING to do with LTSP itself.
<sbalneav> they're bugs in firefox, pulse, xlibs, xorg, etc, that get triggered because these guys aren't testing their programs anymore in remote X situations.
<Ahmuck-Jr> makes sense
<sbalneav> The libxcb bug was a classic example.
<sbalneav> everyone "blamed" ltsp, "it must be something you guys are doing!!!!!" we were told
<sbalneav> until one of us (stgraber) sat down, and emulated it with a full desktop
<sbalneav> Once we showed that, then the X guys started to offer help
<sbalneav> then we tracked it down, and it was PURELY a fault in libxcb, which is supplied by xorg
<sbalneav> but since xorg pretty much EXCLUSIVELY tests only local X + apps, and does little to no remote testing, it was completely missed by them.
<sbalneav> And so it goes.
<Ahmuck-Jr> 	adm (4)
<Ahmuck-Jr> Info: port 2000 is already defined with /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img in inetd.conf
<Ahmuck-Jr> Info: taking no action.
<sbalneav> That's fine.
<sbalneav> You just rebuilt the image, right?
<Ahmuck-Jr> yep
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Jr: Things going alright?
<brian> New to Ubuntu. I need some help with video settings. ANybody up for it?
<cprofitt> hello all
<sbalneav> Hello
<cprofitt> sbalneav: are you from the US?
<sbalneav> No, Canada
<sbalneav> Winnipeg, Manitoba, to be exact.
<cprofitt> Ah... cool.
 * sbalneav looks at temp
<cprofitt> Are you a Dev on Edubuntu or an Educator?
<sbalneav> yeah -18C here
<sbalneav> cool :)
<cprofitt> ouch
<cprofitt> we are a bit cold, but not that cold
<sbalneav> Dev.  I have nothing to do with education.
<sbalneav> I'm a systems administrator for Legal Aid Manitoba.
<cprofitt> Nice -- do they use Open Source?
<sbalneav> We're an all linux shop
<cprofitt> I am stuck as a sysadmin in a school district... and we use Windows/OS X
<sbalneav> We run 185 LTSP thin clients.
<sbalneav> Firefox/OpenOffice.org/Thunderbird
<sbalneav> I've been a developer for LTSP for 10 years
<cprofitt> Nice... perhaps at some point I will work in a Linux shop...
<sbalneav> And I've contributed to the free software movement for 15+ years.
<cprofitt> I am pondering how to raise educators awareness of F/OSS
<sbalneav> I ran my first Linux distro in fall of 1993
<cprofitt> I ran Linux in 1993, but gaming kept me running Windows until two years ago
<cprofitt> and I did not get in to IT until 1997
<sbalneav> I gave up windows at home back in 1999
<sbalneav> Last version of windows I actually know anything useful about is Windows 98 :)
<cprofitt> http://edcommunity.apple.com/ali/story.php?itemID=9671
<cprofitt> curious what you make of that program from Apple -- do you think something similar would aid awareness?
<cprofitt> I actually have experience with Windows all the way up to the current version...
<sbalneav> "community" things like that I know nothing about.
<sbalneav> I concentrate mainly on the code.
 * cprofitt nods
<cprofitt> night all
<Ahmuck-Jr> sbalneav:
<cprofitt> hello nixternal, stgraber pleia2 and others
<Ahmuck-Jr> sbalneav: ... firefox and flash works
<Ahmuck-Jr> albiet, flash is clunky.  but i've dropped back to 500mhz and 256mb ram
<Ahmuck-Jr> sound is shot however
<surfpay> meh
#edubuntu 2009-12-13
<sbalneav> Evening all
<grandpapc> I need help setting up UNR for my grandpa. I'm almost done but resume doesn't set the brightness correctly, so when returning from suspend the screen is very dark. I can use pm-suspend --quirk-s3-bios from command line and it works correctly but i can't get karmic to keep this setting, it has to be really easy for him
<ikonia> !ops | zjblabs using bots to attack ubuntu channels
<ubottu> zjblabs using bots to attack ubuntu channels: Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas
<zjblabs> > attack my pretties!
<bot-zjblabs^^^^^> $ ping
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<Pici> christel: ty
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<ikonia> christel: assistance
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<highvoltage> eek
<Pici> highvoltage: heyas, do you think that the ubuntuirccouncil account could get op access here in case of emergencies?
<highvoltage> Pici: well I have ops, I just didn't see it in time!
<highvoltage> Pici: LaserJock and ogra and stgraber and sbalneav has as well
<highvoltage> Pici: we just activate ops when needed
#edubuntu 2010-12-13
<MephistoM> check out my latest edubuntu installation : http://meeting.knet.ca/mp19/mod/book/view.php?id=3303
<stgraber> MephistoM: cool!
<MephistoM> right on, thanks stgraber
<highvoltage> I just looked at the state of sugar in natty, imho it won't be all that worth while for inclusion for this release
<mhall119> highvoltage: xdg-launcher is up to 0.0.4 now, auto-refreshing on menu changes or app install/remove
<mhall119> thanks to daker
<daker> i am working on autohiding the launcher
<mhall119> +1
<mhall119> \o/
<mhall119> I really appreciate the contributions daker
<mhall119> it's gonna make Qimo really rock
<daker> woo :)
<mhall119> now I need to get started working on my desktop sessions
<mhall119> highvoltage: any good references for building ISOs for seed files?
<highvoltage> mhall119: jriddell is going through the NEW queue tomorrow, the package should go into universe then. sbalneav has been quiet recently, we just need a +1 from him then we can give you edubuntu-dev status to directly upload that (well, once we have it in a seed, which shouldn't be a biggie)
<highvoltage> (nice that it's autorefreshing now)
<mhall119> yeah, I was playing around with the auto-refreshing all morning
<highvoltage> mhall119: on the seed files, it depends. there are different docs on the ubuntu wiki explaining it, if you want qimo to become an official ubuntu derivative and build it using canonical infrastructure, then it might be worth while doing it, otherwise it's probably not worth while if it's for qimo
<mhall119> highvoltage: at this point Qimo's staying outside of canonical
<mhall119> but I thought maybe there were build tools that would generate an ISO from the seeds, that I can run locally
<mhall119> I'm okay using my own infrastructure, I just want a way to automate the building
<highvoltage> mhall119: I have a script that can do that, I've used it for a long time now, but have been meaning to release it at some point. I guess I'll work on that this Friday then, if you'd like to test it let me know
<mhall119> highvoltage: that's be great, thanks
<mhall119> I want to move away from "strip down xubuntu and install qimo packages" and towards "start with a core ubuntu and add qimo packages and dependencies"
<mhall119> hopefully it'll buy me a little more room on the CD image
<highvoltage> mhall119: my script builds the disc from scratch, using debootstrap to set up a minimal ubuntu environment, then it installs metapackages as defined in a configuration file that installs the rest of the system. that would allow you to automate building qimo completely, and with not much effort
<mhall119> awesome
<highvoltage> yep, you could simply not include stuff you don't need in your meta-packages
<mhall119> let me know when it's somewhere I can grab it
<mhall119> I need to see how much of xubuntu I can get rid of
<highvoltage> ok, poke me again on Friday, I probably won't forget, but just in case :)
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> in the mean time I'll get started updating my existing packages and making new ones
<Morsey> hello?
<alkisg> Hi
<Morsey> How you doing?  I've stumbled across edubuntu and have a couple of questions - reckon you could answer them? :)
<alkisg> !question
<ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<Morsey> Is it possible to run edubuntu in a livecd (not DVD) manner?  I have lots of old laptops at school which can't cope with the current install of XP and I am not permitted to change the harddrive...
<alkisg> How much ram do they have?
<Morsey> 512MB
<alkisg> Do you have something to use as a server? E.g. your own laptop?
<Morsey> That's a really good point - yes I do...
<alkisg> You have a couple of options, I think the best one is to make your laptop a roaming LTSP server
<alkisg> This way the clients will boot as fat clients and have their accounts, data etc all on your laptop. They'll be faster than your current XP installation
<alkisg> Another way is to make them netboot the edubuntu dvd from your laptop. This is the easiest / quickest way, you just boot the live dvd on your own laptop and run a script: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot#line-77
<alkisg> But it'll be much slower and the students won't be able to save stuff.
<Morsey> I like the idea of the LTSP server - thanks, I'll give it a go.  My only concern is that of bandwidth - do I really need the 1gb/15 clients as recommended?
<alkisg> It's 10 times faster, sure. But for fat clients it's a little more tolerable than for thin clients
<alkisg> E.g. for thin clients with 100 mbps you can open openoffice in 2 secs, but when you use it, the screen updates will be slow
<Morsey> ahh - ok.
<alkisg> For fat clients with 100mbps, it might take 15 secs to open, but screen updates will be instant
<Morsey> will the individual clients network connections be routed through my laptop then? Or would i be able to configure them to connect through their own wireless cards? I'm thinking about tracking who does what on the internet...
<alkisg> It's difficult to netboot wireless clients
<alkisg> Can't they use wired connections?
<Morsey> they can use wired connections to me - but I would prefer them to use their original wireless cards for internet access. That way they current montoring systems will still work. (not my systems, all based on MAC addresses.....)
<alkisg> They can access the internet through their own ethernet (wired) cards without going through your laptop, if that's what you want
<alkisg> You could also setup wireless connections but it would be tricky
<Morsey> ok - I'll worry about getting a trial up and running first. thanks for your help!
<alkisg> You're welcome
#edubuntu 2010-12-14
<mhall119> did I miss the linux-edu broadcast?
<dinda> mhall119: yes, looks like we're an hour late
<mhall119> :(
<mhall119> hope it went well
<Raziel> hello there
<Raziel> i'm new to edubuntu and ltsp in general
<Raziel> just wondering, once edubuntu is installed and configured to serve LTSP, what to install on thin client ?
<alkisg> Nothing, you just need to configure them to boot from lan
<Raziel> alkisg:  once installed edubuntu, what to configure on the server ?
<alkisg> Did you install ltsp-server from the live cd?
<mhall119> highvoltage: jonathan riddell rejected xdg-launcher from the archives
<daker> OH!!
<daker> mhall119, i have a new and nice way to rewrite the launcher ã
<daker> found*
<mhall119> ?
<daker> something better
<daker> i'll show when it's ready
<mhall119> ok
<daker> i didn't starts yet
<mhall119> just remember to keep it simple and small
<daker> yes
<daker> don't worry
<daker> mhall119,  have you seen the merge proposal for bug 689013 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 689013 in xdg-launcher "Only show launchers marked 'show'" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/689013
<mhall119> daker: don't get too comfortable with the name...
<mhall119> motu's are telling me we've got to remove all references to XDG in the files and packages before it'll be accepted into Universe
<daker> hmm
<mhall119> ;w 36
<mhall119> daker: does your patch actually change anything?
<mhall119> it looks like you're telling it to add in the excluded ones, then going and skipping them later on
<daker> mhall119, yes
<daker> mhall119, test it
<daker> it will work
<mhall119> when testing your last patch, un-ticking the checkbox in alacarte made the items disappear from the launcher
<mhall119> I don't doubt it will work, I just think it was already working
<mhall119> I think switching from xdg.Menu to gmenu fixed that for me
<mhall119> which is why I marked it invalid
<daker> hmm wired
<daker> are you using ubuntu or xubuntu ?
<mhall119> Ubuntu
<mhall119> you?
<daker> Ubuntu
<daker> brb
<highvoltage> mhall119: ok, checking my emails right now..
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah, just saw it, can you address what riddell said in the next revu upload?
<mhall119> highvoltage: he wants it all renamed
<mhall119> he doesn't want xdg in here at all
<mhall119> the depends issue is already fixed though
<mhall119> 08:10 < Riddell> I'd think application-launcher-panel or application-menu-panel is more along  the lines
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, I think he's slightly more strict than he needs to be about that, but he is right
<highvoltage> except that imho application-launcher-panel or application-menu-panel is too generic
<mhall119> yeah, I thought so too
<daker> q-launcher ?
<mhall119> it'll either be qimo-launcher, or some new non-generic name
<daker> oooook
<mhall119> I'm considering a recursive acronym
<mhall119> like ?nx-launcher, for "?NX is Not XDG"
<daker> hhh
<puppydog> Hello?
<mhall119> hi
<puppydog> Mind giving me some help? im at my wits end
<mhall119> depends on whether or not I can help
<mhall119> what's going on?
<puppydog> Well, my problem is this. I have a machine here that i am trying to install ubuntu 10.10 on but when i put the disk in and it comes up the screen is hazy as if not syncing and i can get up to a sertain point in the software download before it just stops allowing me to hit next
<puppydog> Have any advice?
<mhall119> hmmm, sounds like a hardware issue, either bad driver, not enough RAM, or something failing
<puppydog> You see, it works with the windows thats on it just fine. i ahve 8 gigs of ram setup for this as well
<puppydog> maybe should i try the 32 bit version instead of the 64?
<mhall119> wow, 8 gigs, okay not ram
<mhall119> this is just regular Ubuntu?
<puppydog> strait from the website, ive even thought the CD i burned was bad so i made six coppies so far, everyone does this
<mhall119> try asking in #ubuntu, that's the main support channel
<mhall119> this one is mainly for the educational DVD and packages
<puppydog> I have, no one seemed to pay attentin
<puppydog> oh, well i feel dumb ><
<puppydog> Thank you so much for the help
<mhall119> it's usually busy in there, you'll have to be patient and sometime re-ask periodically
<puppydog> Thank you, i will do that. Thank you againf or the help
<mhall119> no problemm
<mhall119> though I didn't really help much now did I?
<daker> mhall119, do you wan to see a new updated xdg launcher :D ?
#edubuntu 2010-12-15
<mhall119> sure
<daker> mhall119, i'll show you :)
<daker> mhall119, bzr branch lp:~adnane002/xdg-launcher/new-fixes
<daker> mhall119, i need to go :) have fun
<sk8ergurl87> Hi everyone :)
<sk8ergurl87> I have a question about ubuntu because I just installed it and I can't seem to get my microphone to work
<ekaj> would someone be willing to read a paper promoting open sourced software like edubuntu in schools? it's pretty rough and not half way done, but someone elses view would help if they would be so kind
<daker> mhall119, ping
<mhall119> daker: pong
<daker> mhall119, wait a sec i'll show you
<daker> mhall119, bzr branch lp:~adnane002/xdg-launcher/new-fixes
<daker> mhall119, what do you think ?
<alkisg> X11 launcher? Sounds nice, is it lighter than lxpanel?
<daker> alkisg, have you tested my branche ?
<alkisg> daker: nope, I see the link for the first time
<alkisg> Is it in C or in Python?
<daker> python
<alkisg> Ah :(
 * alkisg was wondering if it could be used in <= 128mb ram environments...
<daker> hmm
<alkisg> Ignore me, I just have a thin client which I also use as a print server, and lxpanel needs 20Mb RAM so I was looking for something ligter :)
<daker> actually it uses 7,9Mb
<alkisg> And how much with python included?
<alkisg> Ah, gtk, cairo etc, nm, ignore me :)
<alkisg> I saw the description "a simple x11 panel" and I thought it was x11-only, sorry
<mhall119> alkisg: it's an X11 panel
<alkisg> mhall119: it is, I just thought it didn't use gtk etc, kind of like xterm vs gnome-terminal
<alkisg> Never mind me, I just understood it wrong
<mhall119> nope
<daker> mhall119, test it?
<mhall119> daker: working on it
<mhall119> sorry, had to take the kids to school
<daker> ok
<mhall119> daker: I saw it auto-hide, but now I can't bring it back up
<daker> just put the mouse over the it there is bout 2 or 3px that appears from it
<mhall119> tried that
<mhall119> evidently that's not enough for me
<mhall119> I increased it to 10px and then I can
<mhall119> but I get no launchers in the panel
<daker> wired
<daker> mhall119, http://is.gd/iMLTB
<daker> do you see the 3px at the right ?
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> I saw it on mine too
<mhall119> it just didn't trigger anything when I put my mouse over it
<daker> the right click on the bar dispaly a menu
<daker> mhall119, you can change the position of the bar by changing
<daker> self.position = "right" to "top/bottom/left"
<mhall119> yeah, that worked
<mhall119> I had to updated the xdg-launcher script to use l.win.show_all() too
<mhall119> but the dynamic sizing seems to be broken
<mhall119> I think you copied in too much of ADeskBar ;)
<daker> not to much
<daker> too*
<daker> i just trying to do something usefull ã
<mhall119> and it is
<mhall119> but I need dynamic height more than I need auto-hiding
<daker> what do you mean by dynamic height ?
<daker> ah i think i understand
<mhall119> on my branch, the bar_width is calculated based on the # of launchers, then the size of the launchers is calculated to fit in that width
<daker> the height depands on how much launcher there is
<mhall119> which means the more launchers you have,the smaller the bar_height will be
<mhall119> yup
<daker> ok
<daker> mhall119, the launcher doesn't work on Qimo 2
<mhall119> yeah, because I didn't have the xdg menus configured right in qimo-session
<daker> ok
<mhall119> if you copy /etc/xdg/menus -> /etc/xdg/xdg-qimo/menus it should work
<daker> ok i'll ty
<daker> try*
<mhall119> use the get_bar_width_ratio to get the screen multiple
<mhall119> self.bar_width = int(round(self.screen_width * self.get_bar_width_ratio(len(launchers))))
<daker> ok mhall119 i'll remove the auto-hiding
<mhall119> you can leave it in if you fix the dynamic height
<daker> ok
<mhall119> also, we'll need to give attribution to ADeskBar for all of their code we're using
<daker> sure
<daker> mhall119, do you use dual screen ?
<mhall119> nope
<mhall119> laptop
<daker> ok
<daker> it works on qimo
<daker> brb
<mgariepy>  good morning all
<highvoltage> good morning mgariepy
<highvoltage> so Edubuntu meeting is in around 43 minutes if I got it right this time :)
<alkisg> np we can do it again 1 hour later, noone will notice :P
<highvoltage> nixternal: really here?
<nixternal> yes :)
<highvoltage> nixternal: cool. how are things?
<nixternal> finally not so hectic now that I have email again. silly gmail and google, silly cloud
<alkisg> What's wrong with gmail?
<nixternal> mine was down for 2+ days
<nixternal> it wasn't an issue for everybody
<alkisg> Ouch. Mine was accessed by a chinese IP :-/
<highvoltage> nixternal: mind doing a last EC task before the new EC is instated? We're waiting on the CC and mhall119 just needs one more vote for us to give him edubuntu-dev status (for a whole week already :/)
<nixternal> sure thing
<nixternal> linky?
<highvoltage> it was via email on the edubuntu-devel list
 * nixternal looks
<highvoltage> can I forward it to you?
<highvoltage> I forwarded it to your ubuntu address fwiw
<nixternal> voted and sent back :)
<highvoltage> great, thanks!
 * mhall119 hopes it was a +1
<highvoltage> I thought you probably weren't on the -devel list anymore anyway
<highvoltage> ah, you aren't... (logging into mailman to approve)
<nixternal> mhall119: -31 :p
<mhall119> :(
<highvoltage> mhall119: well, welcome as an official edubuntu developer :)
<alkisg> Welcome mhall119 :)
<mhall119> \o/
<mhall119> and just in time, I'm putting together my qimo 3.0 packages as we speak
<alkisg> highvoltage: I see that some people were deactivated from edubuntu-devs when they joined the council, but shouldn't they also stay active as devs too? What if someone leaves the council but wants to stay a dev?
<highvoltage> mhall119: we'll get them added to the package set, then I can show you how to upload to it (which should take around 10 seconds)
<highvoltage> alkisg: yes! they should, because someone could step down from the council but might still want to be a developer
<mhall119> I need to settle on a new name for xdg-launcher first
<mhall119> I'm thinking I'll just call it qimo-launcher and be done with it
<highvoltage> alkisg: at the time the reasoning was that edubuntu-council members inherit edubuntu-dev anyway, but that's not a good way of doing it, I was actually planning to bring it up at the meeting while I was adding mhall119
<alkisg> Nice
<highvoltage> mhall119: at least with qimo- no one can claim that you step on their namespace :)
<stgraber> alkisg: it's because we should go through the same review process even if we are council member
<alkisg> stgraber: right, I thought you already did before becoming council members
<stgraber> so EC members who want to join edubuntu-dev should prepare the same documentation
<highvoltage> technically we did vote on a few of us initially
<highvoltage> (well, let's move to #ubuntu-meeting fwiw)
<highvoltage> mhall119: I think it will be quite possible (and easy) for you to get qimo released with ubuntu once I've shown you how debmower works. I'm planning to clean it up on Friday and then when you have some time I can show you how it works
<mhall119> highvoltage: looking forward to it
<mhall119> I found the ubuntu base i386.squashfs, does it build off that?
<highvoltage> mhall119: nope, it builds from scratch, although it allows caching so that you don't have to build completely from scratch each time
<highvoltage> (which is pretty much what's happening with that ubuntu base image)
<mhall119> ok, and it makes a live session?
<highvoltage> yep
<mhall119> how about an alternate installer?
<highvoltage> it doesn't do alternate, unfortunately
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> eventually I plan to borrow some ideas from http://live.debian.net to do it
<highvoltage> the debian live scripts are *great*, but I'm not sure it can be used to build ubuntu systems reliably yet
<highvoltage> with the debian-live builder you can quite easily make a disc an alternate installer and live installer disc
<mhall119> so, did any of you see the abc7 voicebox thing that partimus.org did?
<mhall119> I thought the news was going to be about linux in schools, but the only mention of that was when the host mentioned who partimus.org was
<mhall119> everything else was just about current news topics
<mhall119> but they did get Jono on tape admitting that he needs a bus to take him home from the clubs at 3am
#edubuntu 2010-12-16
<mhall119> woot! unified artwork source package~
<mhall119> now with a gdm theme too
 * mhall119 attempting to build an ISO from ubuntu-base ISO and qimo packages
 * mhall119 needs debmower
<highvoltage> mhall119: :)
#edubuntu 2010-12-17
<mhall119> highvoltage: I'll be at Disney World all day tomorrow with the family, so just drop me a message when debmower is available and I'll check into it when I can
<porthose> hey guys does anyone know of a list of companies that use ubuntu in an enterprise setting?  I have a friend (a teacher) that is trying to convince the schools superintendent that FOSS is a good thing, ubuntu-devel sent me here :)
<dinda> porthose; there is a page of case studies that has some listed
<dinda> porthose: http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/resources/case-studies
<dinda> porthose: and I'd be happy to talk to them and provide some more materials for their case.
<dinda> porthose: I work for Canonical in all things Education
<dinda> porthose: just have them contact me: belinda.lopez AT canonical.com if they need more materials
<porthose> dinda, sorry I was AFK for a bit, thank you very much I will pass on the information :)
<dinda> porthose: no problem
<priyank>  W: Failure trying to run: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 /sbin/ldconfig
<priyank> error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
<priyank>  what should i do
<priyank> when i perform sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
<priyank> groups: cannot find name for group ID 0
#edubuntu 2010-12-18
<MephistoM> quick question about shell script - during one of the installations of edubuntu that I performed in Kingfisher First Nations, I attempted to run OFRIS (deepfreeze quiv) in edu 10.10.  It did not open with the terminal application as it should...any fixes on that?
<mhall119> sorry, I'm not familiar with OFRIS
<mhall119> does it just need to be run from a terminal
<MephistoM1> sorry bout that, yes - OFRIS is the linux deepfreeze application, it needs to be run from a terminal via shell script
<MephistoM1> the interesting thing was that in 10.04 it worked perfectly - when you clicked on the shell, the script would run in the terminal
<MephistoM1> now it doesn't in 10.10
<MephistoM1> http://meeting.knet.ca/mp19/mod/book/view.php?id=2515&chapterid=984
#edubuntu 2010-12-19
<alkisg> !info subtitleeditor lucid
<ubottu> subtitleeditor (source: subtitleeditor): Graphical subtitle editor with sound waves representation. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.30.0-1ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 266 kB, installed size 1068 kB
<alkisg> !info subtitleeditor maverick
<ubottu> subtitleeditor (source: subtitleeditor): Graphical subtitle editor with sound waves representation. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.30.0-1.1 (maverick), package size 266 kB, installed size 1068 kB
#edubuntu 2011-12-12
<dating> http://netdate.dk/ :-)
<head_victim> dating: thanks, got anything a little closer though?
<Riddell> stgraber: how are you working out the list of source packages to be supported for LTS?
<stgraber> Riddell: so far we went from the .list and .manifest, any package that's not in main
<stgraber> Riddell: probably doesn't work so well for you though
<stgraber> Riddell: I've been poking at germinate a bit today, a very basic diff from Ubuntu and Kubuntu gives me http://paste.ubuntu.com/768183/
<stgraber> Riddell: that's based on germinate's output so that means the includes any package in the dependency chain that's not in one of the Ubuntu seeds
<stgraber> I'm using a similar output to build the list of packages that only edubuntu has (as well as their dependency chain)
<dtrask> anyone here who can help me with epoptes?
<dtrask>  I have it installed and running....but only one client shows up in the interface....and I can't seem to do anything with it
#edubuntu 2011-12-13
<TheProf> Good day. I hope everyone is well. I am trying to install xexit -- an application written by Scott Balneave that kills processes left behind when someone logs out.  I have followed the instructions here: http://www.opinsys.fi/en/killing-user-processes-with-xexit-on-ltsp-servers
<TheProf> for adding the ppa, etc. several times but it won't work for me.  I think the issue is that I am using version 11.04 and the instructions are for a previous version.  Could someone help please?
#edubuntu 2011-12-14
<sunson_> How do I run edubuntu and OpenVZ together?
<highvoltage> stgraber, mgariepy: what can we do with the increased amount of edubuntu-contact emails we're getting? I can't keep up with them (currently 31 e-mails behind and hope to answer around 10 of them by the end of the week, they're not allways quick answers)
#edubuntu 2011-12-15
<mhall119> highvoltage: now you'll have to put up with all my political ramblings on Facebook
 * mhall119 evil laughs
<highvoltage> mhall119: that's ok, I am capable of getting along with conservatives :)
<mhall119> :)
<TheProf> Hello.  For some reason traffic seems slow here so I'll post my question from a few days ago again.  Could someone help me with installing xexit?
<TheProf> It's an application written by Scott Balneave that kills processes left behind when someone logs out.  I have followed the instructions here: http://www.opinsys.fi/en/killing-user-processes-with-xexit-on-ltsp-servers
<TheProf> for adding the ppa, etc. several times but it won't work for me.  I think the issue is that I am using version 11.04 and the instructions are for a previous version.  Could someone help please?
<stgraber> TheProf: I don't remember ever using that one so can't help much. But I wrote something very similar in ltsp-cluster-accountmanager a while ago, just installing that package should work
<TheProf> stgraber, hello.  Does ltsp-cluster-accountmanager make any other changes to the server?
<stgraber> TheProf: it runs a daemon that monitors consolekit killing accounts and it also listens on the network to let LTSP create guest sessions but doesn't change anything on the system itself
<TheProf> stgraber, OK.  Does it require any configuration once installed?
<stgraber> TheProf: nope, the only useful configuration it has is for the guest account part, as you won't use that, no configuration should be required
<stgraber> just check that it's running (sometimes the upstart job is failing for some unknown reason)
<TheProf> stgraber, great. I will try that now. Thank you
<stgraber> np
<TheProf> stgraber, installed successfully. So I'll wait to see once teachers log out that the processes are finally gone and all will be well!
<stgraber> TheProf: it should be logging in /var/log/syslog so you can check there that it's not killing things it shouldn't
<TheProf> stgraber, thank you for the help!
<stgraber> np
<TheProf> tailing syslog now -- so far it's killed off 4 users :)
<stgraber> alkisg: hey there
<alkisg> Hi stgraber, what's up?
<stgraber> alkisg: looking at the Edubuntu seed quickly this morning. I have a few questions regarding epoptes
<alkisg> Shoot
<stgraber> alkisg: 1) should we ship it with edubuntu-kde too? 2) does it work with notify-osd?
<alkisg> 1) It's been tested in KDE/oneiric, so if it doesn't work in Precise it's a bug that we should fix
<alkisg> 2) It works best with notify-osd. We're not sure if we should enable notifications if notify-osd is not there, and another daemon is used,
<alkisg> because those other daemons don't support adding text to an existing notification,
<alkisg> and it gets annoying to have 10 notifications because 10 students logged in
<stgraber> well, regarding 2) your Depends: is notification-daemon | xfce4-notifyd
<stgraber> so currently epoptes brings the old notification daemon to Edubuntu, making everything look ugly :)
<alkisg> $ apt-cache show notify-osd | grep ^Provides
<alkisg> Provides: notification-daemon
<alkisg> That's in 10.04
<alkisg> Not sure if that's the case in 12.04 too.
<stgraber> the provides is there but has notification-daemon is co-installable with notify-osd, it's still being brought by epoptes
<stgraber> just checking that's indeed epoptes bringing it though
<alkisg> It shouldn't, it doesn't do that in previous versions
<alkisg> I wonder if there's a difference in "seeds" as opposed to `apt-get install epoptes`
<stgraber> yeah, there's, seeds aren't parsed by apt-get directly but by a tool called germinate
<alkisg> Normally, if notify-osd is installed, the dependency is satisfied
<alkisg> So no other daemon is brought in
<alkisg> But if it causes a problems in seeds, we can reduce that to Suggests or whatever
<stgraber> oh, actually epoptes isn't the reason why we end up with notification-daemon
<stgraber> it's a bit trickier than that :)
<stgraber> libvirt-bin in ubuntu-desktop seed => edubuntu-desktop seed => libvirt-bin (main) depends on libnotify4 (main) => libnotify4 (main) recommends notification-daemon (universe)
<alkisg> Ouch, long chain there
<stgraber> and as Edubuntu is based on Ubuntu but has universe enable, we get notification-daemon and Ubuntu doesn't ...
<alkisg> But shouldn't that still be satisfied with notify-osd?
<alkisg> Is it possible that that gets "parsed" before notify-osd is brought in by other packages?
<stgraber> yeah, that's the problem, libnotify-bin (not libvirt-bin, that was me multi-tasking a bit too much) is being resolved before notify-osd
<stgraber> I'll workaround that by adding notification-daemon to our seed blacklist, that should do the trick
<highvoltage> well there's a myth busted for me. I thought ubuntu had universe enabled by default these days.
<stgraber> highvoltage: we do, in the livefs and target install
<stgraber> highvoltage: d-i still only has main and restricted
<stgraber> highvoltage: and germinate for the flavours that don't depend on universe will only use main and restricted
<stgraber> highvoltage: so nothing from universe and multiverse can get on the medias
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok
<alkisg> highvoltage: http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Precise/20221518_XQsjKJ#1598159176_TvBwpKk-A-LB
<alkisg> I wonder why there wasn't any announcement at all about the photos...
<stgraber> alkisg: there was but not a huge one
<stgraber> alkisg: they got released 2-3 weeks after UDS
<alkisg> stgraber: we've been talking about it with highvoltage about 1 month after UDS, we didn't know where to look...
<alkisg> I've been monitoring uds.ubuntu.com, nothing there either
<alkisg> Anyway, now I can at last blog about UDS :)
<alkisg> (I wanted to have the photo with all the people with it )
<bkerensa> mhall119: Would love to ask you some questions about Edubuntu and what the team is working on ;)
<mhall119> bkerensa: I'm the wrong guy to ask, I haven't been able to do anything for them in a year
<mhall119> bkerensa: ask stgraber or highvoltage
<bkerensa> ok thanks :D
<bkerensa> highvoltage: ^
<bkerensa> :D
#edubuntu 2011-12-16
<highvoltage> hey bkerensa
<stgraber> highvoltage: updated list of Edubuntu-specific packages and their dependency chain: http://paste.ubuntu.com/772515/
<stgraber> highvoltage: that's after removing geogebra and freemind and adding brainy back in the list
<stgraber> highvoltage: I think that least is reasonable. We may be able to shorten it a little on the library side
<stgraber> highvoltage: that's for binary packages, the TB asked for a list of source package so I'll be generating that one too
<stgraber> highvoltage: http://paste.ubuntu.com/772525/ for the sources
<stgraber> mgariepy: ^
<highvoltage> stgraber: great. is there a way we could promote some of the apps we promote in software center?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'd really like to tell people about things like freemind, it's a killer app in schools
<stgraber> highvoltage: probably, I don't think it can be done on a per-flavour basis but we can probably influence what's done in the general software center
#edubuntu 2011-12-18
<MrChrisDruif> Hi everyone
<MrChrisDruif> IRCAnswersBot; when was the last meeting?
<MrChrisDruif> Anyone around?
<MrChrisDruif> Good afternoon everyone
<MrChrisDruif> HELLO?! Nobody?
<MrChrisDruif> JanC; do you happen to know anything about Edubuntu meetings or logs?
<JanC> MrChrisDruif: I assume logs are where all other ubuntu IRC logs are?
<MrChrisDruif> Meeting logs?
<MrChrisDruif> I didn't mean Channel logs
<JanC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda --> so I guess you can look up meeting logs in the logs for #ubuntu-meeting
<MrChrisDruif> highvoltage; I've seen you were chair for the 30 November meeting. I've not found any "newer" meeting. Is the next one in January?
<bkerensa> highvoltage: If you have a e-mail address I would love to send you some questions to get a idea of what Edubuntu Dev Team is working on this cycle
<highvoltage> MrChrisDruif: we usually have one on the last wednesday of each month, so in January it will be on 25 January, I should probably update the wiki page, not sure if we'll have one this month though
<MrChrisDruif> Ow, I thought ever wednesday
<highvoltage> bkerensa: contact@edubuntu.org - 12.04 is purposely somewhat conservative since it's an LTS release
<highvoltage> MrChrisDruif: it used to be, I'm starting to thing it might be a good idea to switch it back to weekly
<MrChrisDruif> Alright, but that won't be till 25th of January?
<highvoltage> MrChrisDruif: we could probably still do one this month, I guess we might as well do it on Wednesday this week then
<highvoltage> MrChrisDruif: what's it about? you're welcome to bring up a topic any time on the edubuntu-devel list as well
<pleia2> highvoltage: we're including flavor meeting notes in the ubuntu weekly newsletter now, the thread is here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2011-December/003770.html
<MrChrisDruif> highvoltage; I'm just inquiring because of the News Team ^_^
<MrChrisDruif> I've never had a response to that =P
<highvoltage> pleia2, MrChrisDruif: ah right, I have a bunch of emails marked as need-to-reply that I just haven't gotten to yet
<highvoltage> When we have meetings I'll be sure to cc the news team on the notes
<pleia2> perfect!
<MrChrisDruif> That would be great ^_^ Thank you! =D
<highvoltage> I'll do some catch up with emails tomorrow and also reply to those others :)
<highvoltage> and thank you, MrChrisDruif
 * highvoltage runs off again
<MrChrisDruif> Your welcome =)
<micahg> is 11.10 good enough for a first impression of edubuntu or should I give 10.04?
<MrChrisDruif> Seeing Unity will be kept, I think it's a better first impression to use it. 12.04 will also be a LTS, but with Unity
<micahg> yes well, I'm suggesting edubuntu as their windows solution keeps crashing and I want it to just work out of the box like it's supposed to, I was wondering if that goal was met with 11.10
<alkisg> It's been years since edubuntu worked out of the box. But of course if your hardware is not well supported by linux, crashes are possible... :)
<MrChrisDruif> I don't use edubuntu myself
#edubuntu 2012-12-11
<mhall119> highvoltage: stgraber: my son was caught on the computer before 6am this morning, what app will let me disable his login except between reasonable hours?
<mhall119> I installed nanny, but it doesn't seem to prevent his login
<mhall119> running 12.04 with Unity desktop
<mhall119> maybe I'm just not doing something right with nanny?
<mhall119> or do I need to reboot for it to work?
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah, I thought we removed nanny from the archives already by 12.10
<highvoltage> mhall119: it's been abandonded upstream so currently we don't have a replacement and between lightdm and gdm changing so much no one has stepped up to write a replacement yet
<highvoltage> mhall119: however, we'll likely have some functionality at some point in the edubuntu samba configuration where you could set at which times a user is allowed to log in
<stgraber> mhall119: as highvoltage said, nanny is kind of unmaintained and so I wouldn't expect much of it to work sadely... as a workaround, /etc/security/time.conf might do the trick, or something even more hackish would be to write a /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ shell script checking the time and doing an exit 1 if it's outside of the time you want to allow
<stgraber> the Xsession idea is roughly what nanny was doing, though with a much nicer interface to control it :)
<mhall119> thanks guys
#edubuntu 2012-12-12
<CJ_> hi
<CJ_>  I am new to ubuntu. I have three old computers and decided to create a server in my house.
#edubuntu 2012-12-13
<tgm4883> Where is the proper place to ask for a website correction?
<tgm4883> here, or is there a LP project?
<highvoltage> tgm4883: hey there
<tgm4883> highvoltage, hi
<highvoltage> tgm4883: generally, here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website
<highvoltage> (we need to clean up that list at some point though)
<highvoltage> tgm4883: but feel free just to point it out in the meantime, if it's small enough (like a typo or something) then I can just do it now
<tgm4883> highvoltage, the sidebar has the old Mythbuntu logo
<tgm4883> The new one is Ubuntu orange http://www.mythbuntu.org/
<highvoltage> tgm4883: ah I see, yes please file a bug and please assign me, my launchpad name is "jonathan"
<tgm4883> highvoltage, will do, thanks
<highvoltage> and thank you
<tgm4883> done  https://bugs.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bug/1090021
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1090021 in Edubuntu Website "Website sidebar contains old Mythbuntu logo" [Undecided,New]
<tgm4883> thanks highvoltage
<camaro> Has anyone used step?
<highvoltage> ca<tab>
#edubuntu 2012-12-15
<RomulusDaniel> does anyone knows about pae and how to install ubuntu on old ibm thinkpad r50e?
#edubuntu 2013-12-09
<forehand> Is this the place for noob questions?
#edubuntu 2013-12-12
<stgraber> highvoltage: want to have an alpha-1?
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'll be off for part of Tuesday and all of Wednesday, so if you do, most of the testing will be on you
<highvoltage> stgraber: if the current image passes basics, can it be used as an alpha?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I should get some chance to test, but if there are respins I might not be able to get to them. I'd like to go over things and get up to speed with the current state anyway
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I think I did all of the usual new releases task, so we can use it for an alpha if it passes the tests
<stgraber> highvoltage: if you feel up to it, reply to Kate on ubuntu-release (I think there's some kind of wiki page too)
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'll be able to help on Thursday but that's about it
<highvoltage> stgraber: I don't think it's worth while announcing the alpha on edubuntu.org though, but besides that I think it would be nice to have an alpha for anyone interested in edubuntu development
<highvoltage> (ok will do)
#edubuntu 2014-12-09
<akiva-thinkpad> Ubuntu Q and A going on soon: come join #ubuntu-on-air, and tune into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rODyNKhMqZ8
#edubuntu 2014-12-10
<mwalim> Hello, edubuntu used to include my application but no longer does.  I was wondering if the recent release could be considered for inclusion in edubuntu?
<mwalim> The app is TuxMathScrabble, btw
<highvoltage> mw<tab>
#edubuntu 2015-12-10
<belovedk> Love to try out edubuntu
<belovedk> Currently downloading 14.04.3
#edubuntu 2015-12-12
<belovedk> Installed but will like to have xfce as desktop manager.
<belovedk> The pc is quite an old one.
<belovedk> >
<belovedk> grep
#edubuntu 2016-12-12
<TheProf> Hello.  I hope everyone is well today.  I am using Edubuntu 14.04 and it works amazingly well with old thin client hardware both as a thin client and thick client.  However, new machines (anything with an i3, i5, i7 processor) will PXE boot but drops into busybox.  On the ltsp mailing list it was recommended I use a newer kernel and xorg using:
<TheProf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<TheProf> On that site there are three options under 14.05 but I'm not sure which one to use -- desktop, multiarch desktop, or server?  The command to run is different for each and looks to substantially change the setup so I'm hesitate to run it without better understanding!  Thank you very much
#edubuntu 2016-12-13
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [0.7.8-49-g9e904bb-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 0.7.8-49-g9e904bb-0ubuntu1~16.04.3] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-12-11
<inahd> hey all
<inahd> we are gonna be homeschooling over here soon, so i am looking around the pre-fab world of linux educational bundles again
<inahd> while the software bundles are often comprehensive, i always seem to have trouble finding quality content for them
#edubuntu 2018-12-12
<Noneistaken> ho
<Noneistaken> hi
#edubuntu 2019-12-11
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (disco-proposed/main) [2:11.0.1-2ubuntu0.19.04.1 => 2:11.0.1-2ubuntu0.19.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (eoan-proposed/main) [2:11.0.1-2ubuntu0.19.10.1 => 2:11.0.1-2ubuntu0.19.10.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: open-vm-tools (bionic-proposed/main) [2:11.0.1-2ubuntu0.18.04.1 => 2:11.0.1-2ubuntu0.18.04.2] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
