#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-21
<Mithrandir> huzzah!
<Mithrandir> amitk: you win!  The gutsy image works.
<amitk> Mithrandir: cheers
<Mithrandir> including networking and psb graphics.
<agoliveira> amitk: \o/ :)
<amitk> splendid.. Hopefully you can keep the customers happy with the previous image and this one.
<smagoun> Over the weekend Intel dropped their Beta 6 drivers into the moblin tree, anyone tried that yet? I updated my CB from moblin.org, seems that was a mistake.
<smagoun> beta 5 gfzx drivers)
<smagoun> er...beta 6 gfx drivers
<amitk> smagoun: there seems to be reports about it breaking stuff on moblin-dev
<smagoun> amitk: thanks. Do you know if I have to use 2.6.24 for the new drivers? I still have 2.6.22. The messages on moblin-dev didn't say anything about the old kernel.
<amitk> smagoun: There is a huge commit to the kernel DRM driver (common to 2.6.24 and 2.6.22) from Friday night. I guess that is required to use these new X drivers. We don't have'em in Ubuntu yet.
<smagoun> amitk: thanks
<Mithrandir> amitk: when do you expect they'll be merged?
<amitk> Mithrandir: I'll pull them in over the next few days as time allows. Is there an urgency?
<Mithrandir> amitk: no, it's rather that I want to be able to plan around it.
<Mithrandir> so it doesn't land at an unfortunate time.
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: ping
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: hi
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: can you give me a brief summary of what you guys changed in nm-applet?
<ToddBrandt> bfiller: raji has more up to date info
<ToddBrandt> raji: you online?
<bfiller> ToddBrandt: i'll check the changelog as well..
<GrueMaster> davidm: ping
<davidm> GrueMaster, pong
<GrueMaster> Heh.
<davidm> How may I help you?
<GrueMaster> Last week, you sent a link to a hardy image to Don Johnson, and said you'd get a project tarball up soon.
<GrueMaster> Anny luck?
<GrueMaster> I'd ping him, but he's on his way to taiwan.
<davidm> Let me ping tollef, but I'm minutes from leaving for London
<GrueMaster> ah
<GrueMaster> Well, I have a project someone here sent me on 0117.  I can try to mangle it into functioning, I think.
<GrueMaster> May be the same one.
<davidm> GrueMaster, I've asked Mithrandir to chat with you
<davidm> I have to shutdown now.
<Mithrandir> GrueMaster: our current daily build system doesn't support putting those tarballs anywhere.  I can take a look at getting that done tomorrow, but I have to ensure we don't use too much disk space and such.
<GrueMaster> Not really looking for a daily snapshot, just need a working one.
<GrueMaster> I think you sent me one last week, but I'm having problems getting the kernel modules I'm building to work with the kernel.
<GrueMaster> Symbol mixup.
<Mithrandir> hardy or gutsy?
<GrueMaster> Hardy.  Gutsy is static (for the most part), and I can build it with the daily MIC GIT pull from moblin.org.
<GrueMaster> Once I can start building Hardy & gutsy with the same MIC, I won't need to bug you guys.
<Mithrandir> you need to make sure you have the linux-headers from the ppa installed in your build system.  Do you have that?
<GrueMaster> not sure.  I took the project tarball you sent, then did an apt-get to retrieve the build dependent packages, including linux-headers-2.6.24-4-lpia
<GrueMaster> Not sure where it got them from.
<Mithrandir> what does apt-cache policy linux-headers-2.6.24-4-lpia say?
<GrueMaster> looks like it is getting them from ports.ubuntu.com hardy/main.
<GrueMaster> how do I change this?
<Mithrandir> do you have an /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d?
<Mithrandir> if so, can you grep ppa -r /etc/apt/sources.list* and paste the output?
<GrueMaster> deb http://ppa.launchpad.met/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu hardy main restricted universe
<GrueMaster> BTW:  This is how your project tarball was setup last week.
<GrueMaster> I use a chroot environment when building packages.
<Mithrandir> you need to make sure the chroot where you build the packages have the same sources.list settings or stuff might not work.
<GrueMaster> I build inside the project using the MIC terminal window.  Never had a problem before.
<Mithrandir> hm, ok.
<Mithrandir> try running apt-get update first and see if that helps?
<GrueMaster> will do.
<GrueMaster> Gotta run.  Meeting.  Back in an hour or so.
<raji> bfiller, I removed the 'Manual configuration' menu item and made the 'create new network', 'connect to other networks' dialogs accept input from keyboard on device. 
<bfiller> raji: ok, thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-22
<Mithrandir> StevenK: care to take a look at 151321?  It should be simple enough.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: There's a debdiff attached, I'll see that it applies and upload it.
<Mithrandir> cheers.
<Mithrandir> I haven't verified, but I assume you'll manage. :-)
<StevenK> Well, I'm guessing NoDisplay=true is the right thing
<Mithrandir> sounds right to me
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Fix for 151321 uploaded.
<Mithrandir> StevenK: yay you!
<Mithrandir> StevenK: did you get a chance to test the mccaslin image?
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Still downloading.
<Mithrandir> oh, ok.
<Mithrandir> any ETA?
<Mithrandir> StevenK: ^^
<StevenK> Mithrandir: 40 minutes, at which point I plan to be sleeping.
<Mithrandir> ahkay.
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: can you rsync the mccaslin image and try it on your Q1, please?
<StevenK> I could spend a little while testing it if you want.
<StevenK> Then I'll just tell my alarm clock to bugger off
<Mithrandir> well, I'm not going to deny you sleep
<Mithrandir> but if you want to work an hour when it's done and sleep in for an hour, I won't complain.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Anything in particular you want beaten on in this image?
<Mithrandir> does network work, does apps work?
<StevenK> Network just came up
<StevenK> (When I selected it in the drop down)
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: This one: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull/20080121.2/mccaslin_samsungq1ultrafull_install-usb.img ?
<Mithrandir> yes, please.
<agoliveira> Sure.
<StevenK> Mithrandir: Right, network connects and works, and every app aside from Notepad looks to be good
<StevenK> Notepad doesn't start -- I've not investigated why yet
<StevenK> Right, Notepad doesn't start because the command 'notes' doesn't exist
<Mithrandir> StevenK: great, thanks.
<StevenK> Notepad used to work, I'm wondering what happened.
<StevenK> And there is no brightness control, either
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: I'm having the same problem I had with the latest imaqge I tried, the installer stalls with a message "checking device /dev/sd(x) for instalations source...." where (x) is a,b,c or d. I'll try another pendrive just in case.
<StevenK> agoliveira: I just flashed my Q1U, it worked great for me
<agoliveira> StevenK: 2 in 2 means something is wrong here.
<amitk> agoliveira: is this on a Q1?
<agoliveira> amitk: Yep.
<agoliveira> Ah, works now. It's my older pendrive I was using for testing.
<agoliveira> Installing...
<agoliveira> Time to buy a new one it seems...
<Mithrandir> agoliveira: tried both USB ports?
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Yep. Older pendrive don't work... funny. It was really old anyway.
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: Looks good. Same issues you and StevenK told. Network is fine.
<Mithrandir> ok, cool
<bfiller> does anyone know if I can use dh_gconf to install schemas? I'm currently using it in conjunction with gconf-defaults to install default values, but I want to switch to use schemas.
<agoliveira> Definitely, the old pendrive was the problem. Jon's image that wasn't working yesterday now installs fine. Time to pass it over to my wife :)
<agoliveira> Sciri: Hi Sean. I believe you got my package over there :)
<Sciri> agoliveira: Did we? Let me check...
<agoliveira> Sciri: At least fedex says so...
<Sciri> agoliveira: Got it...it was up near the front desk. :D
<agoliveira> Sciri: Cool. Be my guest and enjoy ;)
<Sciri> agoliveira: Ha! Thanks...I might have time to power it up and make sure it works. ;)
<agoliveira> Sciri: Ok, I'll buy that one :)
<davidm> HappyCamp, HappyCamp_ubuntu ping
<davidm> rustyl, ping
<davidm> sodarock_home, ping
<agoliveira> daqv
<agoliveira> Ooops
<sodarock_home> davidm: ?
<davidm> I sodarock_home can check your intel email?  Sean just sent you one for your Intel phone #
<Sciri> sodarock_home: Right...I need a phone number for the proxybox shipment to Intel. :)
<sodarock_home> k
<davidm> sodarock_home, or your cell phone, it's for the caching server heading your way
<sodarock_home> Sciri: did you get it?
<Sciri> sodarock_home: Got it. :D
<sodarock_home> Okay :)
<sodarock_home> You better send it 3 day or something, so it gets here by Friday
<sodarock_home> Or is that 2 day?
<Sciri> sodarock_home: The server is coming your way as well as two switches in case of emergency. davidm is bringing APs.
<Sciri> sodarock_home: Standard overnight.
<sodarock_home> Sounds good, I will look for it.
<GrueMaster> Mithrandir:  You in?
<raji> asac_the_2nd: I can't build wpasupplicant 0.6.1~gitxxx from http://ppa.launchpad.net/asac/ubuntu/pool/main/w/wpasupplicant, Are there any special instructions to build such source code?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-23
<Ward1983> is there a (fairly) straight forward way to crosscompile ubuntu-mobile on a ARM device?
<asac_the_2nd> Mithrandir: can i use the current hardy image creator and get something useful?
<amitk> asac_the_2nd: you should be able to get a working image...
<asac_the_2nd> amitk: so its discouraged to do that right now?
<amitk> asac_the_2nd: no it isnt. Why?
<asac_the_2nd> amitk: nevermind ... for me it read a bit like "works somehow" :)
<amitk> :)
<Ward1983> i guess thats a question nobody can answer here, i know enough by seeing the mentality
 * Ward1983 looks for something else to run on his pda
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Ian, my dear! Long time no see :)
<ian_brasil> ha ha 
<tsaarni> i'm trying to install gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse on lpia but apt-get doesn't find it
<tsaarni> i've got deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports gutsy main restricted universe multiverse on my sources.list. any ideas what could be wrong?
<smagoun> lool: I saw that you're helping someone with cheese 2.21.5. What's the state of that right now? Is a hildonized version of 2.21.5 available?
<lool> smagoun: I had good news on the subject 30s ago
<smagoun> :)
<lool> smagoun: I was in the middle of porting the hildon patch to the new upstream version
<lool> Since the sponsoree gave up on that part
<lool> And I was stumbling on the glade changes + C code changes; these were not 100% clear to me, but Matthew Garrett was only some meters away!
<lool> And it turned out he had most of an updated hildonization patch ready
<smagoun> lool: That's excellent news
<lool> So I'm going to look at his patch now and merge it with mine (incredibly our two changes are perfectly complementary)
<smagoun> lool: I'd like to take a look when you're done
<lool> smagoun: Okay
<lool> smagoun: Are you taking crack for testing?
<lool> smagoun: I mean do you accept to test crack
<lool> Not that you take crack while you test
<lool> smagoun: Cause I'm not near my Q1, but just got a built out
<lool> *build
 * lool ups his chroots in the mean time
<amitk> heh
<smagoun> lool: I will test a build, yes :)
<lool> smagoun: Do you have patches for cheese I should be looking to merge?
<smagoun> lool: I've pushed everything upstream so far, with the exception of a couple I'm not done with
<lool> smagoun: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/packages/cheese_2.21.5-0ubuntu1_lpia.deb
<lool> smagoun: It's crashing for various reasons in my chroot as it needs hal for example
<lool> It should start up at least
<lool> If it doesn't, try withing gdb
<smagoun> lool: thanks, I'll give it a shot now
<lool> smagoun: TY
<lool> smagoun: Here, it will crash in libgstbluetooth.so, from bluez-utils
<smagoun> lool: I'm testing on gutsy. A couple things I noticed:
<smagoun> 1) the menu appears in the wrong place + isn't themed
<smagoun> 2) The countdown widget is missing (I think the notebook_bar widget is missing from the hildon glade file)
<lool> smagoun: I don't know what's going on with theming; concerning the countdown widget, I think Matthew ported his patch just before it landed, so it would needed rebasing on this
<lool> I've send an email to Matthew explaining this
<lool> *sent
<lool> smagoun: Does it crash for you?  Could you take a picture?
<smagoun> the countdown widget is an easy port; I can do it if necessary
<smagoun> It doesn't crash (yet), and it does take a picture
<lool> smagoun: If you like, that would be nice; I'll upload my sources if these are fit for hardy, and I suggest you edit the hildon patch to port them
<lool> Cool, good news
<lool> This means I can upload :)
<smagoun> lool: I've only tested on gutsy not hardy, so it might still crash on hardy :)
<lool> smagoun: It could, but then the regression should be fixable
<lool> smagoun: I don't think cheese itself changed things which cause regressions; we might see regressions caused by other sources, but these are the other sources' fault!   :-P
 * lool builds cheese
 * agoliveira prefers just buy some...
 * lool uploads
<lool> smagoun: If you're interested in the cheese source, I've put it at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/packages/cheese/2.21.5-0ubuntu1/hardy/cheese_2.21.5-0ubuntu1.dsc
<lool> Can't upload it thought as cheese was promoted to main
<smagoun> lool: thanks! I'll take a look now
<lool> smagoun: Accepted
 * lool &
<HappyCamp> davidm, fyi, I received the package from sciri
<davidm> HappyCamp, outstanding, I am VERY glad to hear that.
<smagoun> lool: I put a debdiff for the hildon changes at http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/cheese-2.21.5-update-hildon-glade.debdiff
<smagoun> The UI still isn't quite right, but now the countdown widget works. I had trouble merging the Glade files, I finally figured out the old cheese.hildon.glade was made with a different version of Glade than the one I have installed - so the delta was huge, and 95% noise.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-24
<smagoun> lool: I posted a debdiff for the hildon glade file in cheese yesterday; did you get a chance to look at it? people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/cheese-2.21.5-update-hildon-glade.debdiff
<smagoun> try again: http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/cheese-2.21.5-update-hildon-glade.debdiff 
<lool> smagoun: I got it, yes
<lool> smagoun: But you weren't on IRC when I wanted to reply
<lool> smagoun: I didn't try it out though
<smagoun> lool: sorry, wife and kid to attend to :)
<lool> smagoun: Oh sure, I don't expect you to be around all the time
<lool> smagoun: So one option is that I go pester my sponsor to sponsor this additional update, but I think it would be simpler if you could simply request sponsoring for this debdiff
<lool> smagoun: There's no reason it shouldn't go to hardy right now :)
<smagoun> lool: I'd be happy to. I assume I need to fix the version in the changelog (from ubuntu1um1 to ubuntu2)?
<lool> smagoun: I guess either one of StevenK or Mithrandir could sponsor it; I asked seb128 to sponsor my upload; you can request sponsoring for main via bug reports to launchpad
<lool> smagoun: Correct
<lool> smagoun: I would mention that the changes are in the 40_hildon patch
<lool> smagoun: If you get access to the cheese.hildon.glade file, it would be nice to send the updated file to Matthew
<lool> smagoun: Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>
<smagoun> alright, I'll file a bug. Am I correct that I need to attach the debdiff to the bug, assign the bug to myself, mark it as confirmed, then subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to the bug?
<lool> smagoun: That sounds about right
<smagoun> lool: I'll sent it to him, thanks
<lool> smagoun: You can also pester Mithrandir and StevenK I guess :-P
<lool> smagoun: The bug is nice though as it will allow you to present your work for MOTU candidacy
<smagoun> :)
<lool> You do want to become MOTU _right_?  :)
<smagoun> lool: absolument!
<agoliveira> smagoun: ... and may God have mercy upon your soul...
<Hobbsee> hah
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: said by a non-MOTU :)
<agoliveira> Hobbsee: That's exactly my point :)
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: then again, that could be said for many things
<davidm> Hello
<Mithrandir> packaging is hard, let's go shopping.
 * Hobbsee waves to davidm
<Mithrandir> hiya David
<agoliveira> Hobbsee: Mithrandir, I wish...
<agoliveira> davidm: Hi again
<agoliveira> Mithrandir: not particulary hard I guess, just freaking boring.
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: not enough problem solving?
<agoliveira> Hobbsee: No, far from it. Just not the kind I like. To me it's like go to the dentist. I know I have to and I do it from time to time but it does not mean I have to like it.
<Hobbsee> mmm
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: so get rid of it, and get dumped with all the incredibly difficult problems instead?
<agoliveira> Hobbsee: Maybe :) but I don't have a choice, it's part of my job.
<agoliveira> I mean, if I want to keep my job, of course :)
 * Hobbsee would have thought there would be other people happy to do more packaging, and shelve some of their more complicated stuff that they didn't like doing.
<Hobbsee> (ie, and swap)
<Hobbsee> unless the aim is to get you skilled in every section, of course
<agoliveira> Hobbsee: Yeah, maybe I can get a raise after all :P
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: a raise would be required?  i would have thought it was worth it from the job satisfaction POV
<agoliveira> Hobbsee: Not required but aways nice nonetheless. But don't get me wrong, I really like my job as a whole and specially the company I'm working for (or I rather leave, I'm not shy in that department) just there's some things I "dislike" to do more than others, that's all.
<lool> agoliveira: Are you going to the Bossa Conference on open source and mobile devices?
<Hobbsee> agoliveira: eparse - the bit in the brackets
<ian_brasil> lool: yes i think so
<lool> Would be nice to represent UME there and meet the maemo folks I'd guess
<agoliveira> lool: Well, I really want to be there, just need davidm's ok ;)
<ian_brasil> you seen the place in Recife..very chic
<lool> davidm: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8375523931.html
<lool> funded by ian_brasil's company IIUC?
<ian_brasil> i wish it were my company...you see the first quarter results?
<ian_brasil> Nokia on Thursday reported fourth quarter 2007 net sales of EUR 15.7 billion
<agoliveira> lool: Actually, I added that to the conferenceattendence wiki a few weeks ago.
<ian_brasil> and debconf in argentina too
<lool> Nokia is too rich
<lool> They should give money away
<Mithrandir> they give out hardware instead.
<ian_brasil> it is a drop in the ocean fir sure but have a look at http://shareideas.org/index.php/Main_Page 
<lool> Mithrandir: By *cough* mirror
<lool> *error
<lool> Damn
<lool> How could I write mirror instead of error
<suihkulokki> lool: they do give money away. buy shares and they'll give you too :)
<lool> suihkulokki: haha
<HappyCamp_laptop> agoliveira: Did you get a coat for the trip?
<agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop: Yeah, bought a good one in a sports store. The kind one uses for trekking, warm and waterproof.
<HappyCamp_laptop> Good to hear :)  I'm sure you will survive
<HappyCamp_laptop> We do keep the buildings fairly warm ;)
<agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop: I lived in NJ/NY for some time during winter so I have a good idea :)
<HappyCamp_laptop> Well we don't get that cold here!
<agoliveira> HappyCamp_laptop: I tought it was actually colder but below a certain point it's all the same to me :)
<davidm> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 17:00. The chair is davidm.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<davidm> It's that time again
<davidm> I'm thinking this will be failry short since the sprint is next week and we only have two prior items and no current items yet.
 * bspencer__ quickly updates agenda...
<alek_desk> :)
<davidm> [topic] Michael Frey (ChickenCutlass) to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3
<MootBot> New Topic:  Michael Frey (ChickenCutlass) to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 
<ChickenCutlass> There is a boot chart uploaded to http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/mfrey-bootchart-20080117-1.png
<ChickenCutlass> This is for ext3 since agoliveira already did charts for squashfs
<davidm> very good
<lool> Still quite CPU bound it seems
<Mithrandir> ChickenCutlass: agoliveira doesn't have a menlow system, though.
<ChickenCutlass> If anyone sees anything that jumps out please shout
<smagoun> ChickenCutlass: that's on the C0 CB, right?
<agoliveira> Indeed, I tried on my Q1.
<davidm> [link] http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/mfrey-bootchart-20080117-1.png
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~smagoun/mfrey-bootchart-20080117-1.png 
<ChickenCutlass> smagoun, yes C0 CB
<ChickenCutlass> ah did  not know that agoliveira was on Q1
<ChickenCutlass> not CB
<Mithrandir> smagoun: weren't you going to talk to cjwatson about getting ckbcomp and such to not be run on each boot?
<agoliveira> Looks even more cpu-bound than on Q1.
<Mithrandir> also, have you tested with the hardy image?
<smagoun> Mithrandir: once upon a time, yes. Other things have gotten in the way
<ChickenCutlass> no -- have not done any Hardy testing
<davidm> smagoun, can you take an action to talk to cjwatson about getting ckbcomp and such to not be run on each boot?
<Mithrandir> smagoun: can we give you an action to get that done?  It should shave off 2s on the boot time, which is good (and basically free)
<smagoun> davidm: yes
<davidm> [action] smagoun, to talk to cjwatson about getting ckbcomp and such to not be run on each boot?
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smagoun, to talk to cjwatson about getting ckbcomp and such to not be run on each boot? 
<davidm> smagoun, thanks
<Mithrandir> it'd be interesting to see if hardy is any better as well.
<bspencer__> I'm not certain what we've discovered (excuse my naivety)
<Mithrandir> any chance you could be convinced to take on that?
<bspencer__> is ext3 much faster?
<davidm> ChickenCutlass, what would it take to run the same test on Hardy?
<ChickenCutlass> davidm, I could run the test -- do we have a Hardy image ready?
<agoliveira> bspencer__: It's not a very fair way to compare as we used 2 different platforms but the answer would be no.
<ToddBrandt> here
<davidm> ChickenCutlass, we do 
<ChickenCutlass> davidm, ok -- give me URL and I will test it
<bspencer__> agoliveira: sure.  so we are going to do a valid test on Menlow.. or even one on Q1 with both ?
<davidm> We actually need to do three tests ext3 since the prior test was not on CB and then both on hardy
<agoliveira> bspencer__: That kind of answers I guess ;)
<davidm> [action] ChickenCutlass to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy and boot charts for gutsy ext3 on CB
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ChickenCutlass to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy and boot charts for gutsy ext3 on CB 
<davidm> Mithrandir, can you provide URL to ChickenCutlass for hardy image please?
<amitk> is udev or related scripts maxing out the cpu between 12 and 20s?
<bspencer__> smagoun: in your chart, does it show the time of loading Hildon/mozembed/home screen ?  I'm trying to find related info.  When does the timing measurement end during boot process?
<davidm> [action] Mithrandir to provide ChickenCutlass URL to hardy images
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Mithrandir to provide ChickenCutlass URL to hardy images 
<Mithrandir> ChickenCutlass: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/hardy/ has hardy images
<ChickenCutlass> Mithrandir, thanks
<Mithrandir> amitk: it's called "kernel is in modprobe land", I think.
<Mithrandir> amitk: but udev is spinning waiting for the kernel to return.
<amitk> Mithrandir: i thought that was done between 2 and 7s
<amitk> but you are probably right, there are calls to modprobe from udev too
<Mithrandir> amitk: the first one is initramfs, the second one is the normal system
<smagoun> bspencer__: the chart ends before mozembed starts
<bspencer__> smagoun: so it is really >35s before the user sees a UI he can interact with
<bspencer__> perhaps >40s
<smagoun> bspencer__: yes. the chart doesn't include the bios (10sec) or bootloader (2sec) either
<alek_desk> bspencer__, that's why Martin is working on fast boot
<bspencer> alek_desk: we are interested in fast boot but normal boot is also very important to reduce
<alek_desk> of course
<davidm> OK can we look at this further next week at the sprint?
<davidm> ChickenCutlass, is it possible to get the tests run before the sprint?
<ChickenCutlass> davidm, I can do the gutsy ext3 no problem but I need a saved MIC project for Hardy to do the ext3 test
<davidm> ChickenCutlass, OK thanks that will help
<davidm> Mithrandir, can we get ChickenCutlass a saved MIC project for Hardy?
<Mithrandir> bspencer: mjg59 at least is not very comfortable with shipping anything based on hibernate, since it mostly works by accident and he believes the error rate will be too high.
<Mithrandir> davidm: I'll see if I can get him one.
<bspencer> Mithrandir: I hear ya.
<bspencer> I would really like to focus on reducing normal boot.
<Mithrandir> bspencer: (I'm just the messenger here; I don't know the details, so please don't ask for them. :-)
<davidm> [action] Mithrandir to try to get ChickenCutlass  a saved MIC project for Hardy quickly
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Mithrandir to try to get ChickenCutlass  a saved MIC project for Hardy quickly 
<davidm> OK can we pick this up at the sprint?
<Mithrandir> sounds good to me
<Mithrandir> speaking of which, will we have some C0 (or D0) systems available for hacking on?
<davidm> Yes Mauri said we will have some
<HappyCamp_laptop> Mithrandir: I think so, mawhalen was going to make sure we have some.
<Mithrandir> excellent
<davidm> 4 I think
<davidm> [topic] Bob Spencer (bspencer) to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bob Spencer (bspencer) to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case. 
<bspencer> I have not completed my action item.  Very sorry.  Will discuss it with the team before the sprint.  I've been out of the office Friday to Wednesday (yesterday)
<mawhalen> Yes, we will have at least 3 D0 systems to use during the Spring
<mawhalen> Sprint
<davidm> bspencer, I'll carry the action
<davidm> mawhalen, thanks for update
<davidm> [action] Bob Spencer (bspencer) to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case.
<MootBot> ACTION received:  Bob Spencer (bspencer) to continue checking that projects are tagged when they release and report back on whether this is the case. 
<davidm> New business
<davidm> [topic] Hildon 2.0 release discussion (bspencer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hildon 2.0 release discussion (bspencer) 
<bspencer> Hildon 2.0 has been officially released.  I would like to propose that we update to it.  Horace and I can do the work.  Here's the plan:
<bspencer>   - Update to Hildon 2.0 in Ubuntu PPA
<bspencer>   - Add new patches to make Hildon freedesktop.org compliant (small things)
<bspencer>   - Add other patches already part of Ubuntu version of Hildon.
<bspencer> (suggestions welcome)
<bspencer> I'd like to clearly identify everything that is different from upstream and keep these separate as patches
<bspencer> I also plan to add a webpage to moblin.org detailing the latest status of MID use of Hildon for pepole to see.
<lool> bspencer: Did you discuss the XDG patches with upstream?
<bspencer> I think this work will be small because we updated just 6weeks ago.  The diffs should be minor.
<bspencer> lool, no because I didn't know if we had patches yet.
<lool> Oh ok
<bspencer> but we will do that.
<lool> bfiller was also interested in participating, and naturally I am
<bspencer> yes -- ok.  Will keep you two on all chatter I hear about it.
<bfiller> bspencer: I have recently merged some of Horace's changes into Launchpad as well as a bunch of my own changes
<bfiller> bspencer: we should make sure these all get included..
<bspencer> bfiller: changes to Hildon in particular?
<bfiller> bspencer: yes
<bspencer> bfiller: agree  (all patches get included)
<bspencer> bfiller: I'll take a look at your patches.  I'm interested to know what you updated.
<bspencer> (but can do that offline)
<bspencer> that's all I have about Hildon 2.0 from my end.
<bfiller> bspencer: maybe we could work on testing/debugging hildon 2.0 next week at sprint?
<lool> bspencer: One thing which might be a bit hard if we want patches as patch files is to extract our current changes as patches
<bspencer> bfiller: great idea.  Let's set that as a goal of the sprint.
<bspencer> lool, agree.  I like the idea though if it is possible without killing us
<bspencer> I'd like to separate upstream with our additions.  Not sure if that is feasible.
<lool> We can discuss this with more depth later on, but people have expressed disagreement with the usage of patches along with bzr: bzr branches should be used instead
<lool> I personally don't mind one or the other; mixing bzr changes and patch files sounds bad though
<bspencer> lool: true -- I recall such a discussion.  Let's chat at the sprint. 
<lool> (I never managed a collection of patches as bzr branches so I find patch files easier for me at the moment ;)
<lool> bspencer: *cough*
<lool> bspencer: I wont be at the sprint
<lool> bspencer: I'm moving to my new house after all
<lool> (Date only slipped by 3 days)
<bspencer> lool: ok.  new house (woo)
<bspencer> they must pay good at canonical ;)
<lool> Will miss you all, folks!
<lool> bspencer: Pffff :)
<davidm> lool, will you have time Monday to talk further?
<lool> bspencer: Yeah, 1 house in 3 months is pretty decent pay
<agoliveira> bspencer: They have 50 years mortgages there...
<lool> davidm: Certainly
<bspencer> agoliveira:  lol 
<davidm> OK can I suggest we take this up first thing Monday then?
<agoliveira> bspencer: I'm not joking, ask Lool!
<lool> davidm: I guess up to wednesday included, I should be able to clear anything outstanding
<bspencer> davidm: yes.  sounds good.  Thanks.
<davidm> lool, great, thanks
<lool> davidm: Absolutely, but with the TZ issue naturally
<davidm> [action] further review of Hildon 2.0 release discussion at sprint Monday morning 
<MootBot> ACTION received:  further review of Hildon 2.0 release discussion at sprint Monday morning  
<lool> (And while I'm at it: I wont be around from thursday next week for about 10 days)
<davidm> OK that concludes new business
<bspencer> lool:  so we need to settle on maintainership of the Hildon stuff too so we can make sure changes are doable while you are away
<bspencer> (at the sprint)
<lool> bspencer: Yep; albeit other people in the team can sort anything I suppose
<davidm> Any other new business?
<amitk> Intel was to provide us with a list of folks who should have logins on kernel.ubuntu.com for joint integration efforts. I haven't received those names yet.
<davidm> bspencer, can you look into this for next week?
<alek_desk> amitk, i know the name list
<bspencer> davidm: yes.
<davidm> [topic] Intel was to provide Canonical with a list of folks who should have logins on kernel.ubuntu.com
<MootBot> New Topic:  Intel was to provide Canonical with a list of folks who should have logins on kernel.ubuntu.com 
<bspencer> oh... spoke too soon.
<bspencer> alek_desk: can do it :)
<amitk> alek_desk: send me the names and preferred login ids in email
<davidm> please CC me too
<alek_desk> amitk, sure
<alek_desk> davidm, ok
<davidm> [action] alek_desk: to send Amitk and Davidm the names and preferred login ids in email for kernel.ubuntu.com logins
<MootBot> ACTION received:  alek_desk: to send Amitk and Davidm the names and preferred login ids in email for kernel.ubuntu.com logins 
<davidm> OK any other new business?
<davidm> amitk, please edit the wiki page with the item
<davidm> going once............
<amitk> davidm: sure
<davidm> going twice............
<davidm> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:34.
<davidm> lool, can you join me now in the conference room near where I am sitting please?
<lool> davidm: Absolutely
<asac_the_2nd> raji: network manager 0.7 bits are avail my ppa ... if you wanna give it a try: https://edge.launchpad.net/~asac/+archive
<cjwatson> Mithrandir,smagoun,davidm: pretty sure I fixed that console-setup issue already in hardy; I think I mailed some subset of you about it
<cjwatson>   * Backport from trunk:
<cjwatson>     - Run setupcon with --save in the postinst to ensure that required data
<cjwatson>       is copied to /etc.
<cjwatson>     - Load the saved keymap in /etc/console-setup/boottime.kmap.gz if
<cjwatson>       available rather than running ckbcomp (which is slow), unless we're
<cjwatson>       being called with --save or --save-only.
<cjwatson> console-setup 1.19ubuntu1
<Mithrandir> cjwatson: oh, of course.  That image is based off gutsy which explains it.
<Mithrandir> smagoun: ^ ; you probably want to put that into the gutsy ppa.
<cjwatson> can give you the isolated diff if you want
<lool> If you have it available, that'd be nice
<cjwatson> you want http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/console-setup/trunk/revision/19 and http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/console-setup/trunk/revision/20
<lool> Thanks!
<smagoun> cjwatson: Mithrandir thanks. I'll look at that today.
<lool> smagoun: I have an upload for the above ready; mind if I push to the gutsy ppa for you to have a look?
<smagoun> lool: that would be great
<mawhalen> davidm: ping
<smagoun> lool: the console-setup you added to the gutsy ppa seems to work. I'll try to get performance numbers tomorrow. Thanks!
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-01-25
<lool> ian_brasil: If you want to mention something in the monthly news, Matthew Garret, Steve and I worked on a new hildon version of cheese
<lool> Steve == smagoun
<ian_brasil> lool: OK, thx
<StevenK> I was going to say. 
<StevenK> I'm happy to take credit, though ... :-)
<lool> cjwatson: 5 seconds gained on the boot thanks to the console-setup change!  Thanks!
<cjwatson> lool: excellent
<GrueMaste1> \join #moblin
<raji> asac_the_2nd: I couldnt test wpa using your network-manager 0.7 bits because, it has dependency on libnl-pre8.0 , I couldnt find one suitable for lpia architecture.
<khashmeshab> hello everybody. can anyone tell me a brief summary of current ubuntu-mobile project status?
<khashmeshab> I'm working on a article about mobile and embedded operating systems.
<agoliveira> khashmeshab: Hi. What do you want to know?
<khashmeshab> I want to know what systems and arch.s this version can installed on.
<agoliveira> Did you check the links on the topic? They say preety much everything but the current details. 
<agoliveira> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<khashmeshab> yes I did. thanks a lot. but consulting with an expert is more useful!
<Sciri> khashmeshab: Unfortunately I don't have an overview of the current state of Ubuntu Mobile, but check out the meeting notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/ since there's a lot of cool tidbits in there. :D
<khashmeshab> thanks a lot for your time and fingers.
<Sciri> khashmeshab: Also, there's an Ubuntu Mobile Sprint in Oregon next week; I'm looking to see if I can find the page now.
<agoliveira> khashmeshab: Is there any information you need to know besides what's on the docs?
<khashmeshab> I have a emergency question now! Can I install ubuntu-mobile on my Sony-Ericsson P990i? If no, which similar system can I install it? I think the best way to write about a product is to install it!
<agoliveira> khashmeshab: As it's stated on the faq, UME is intended, at least for now, for x86 devices, not PDA or cellphones.
<khashmeshab> also not for ARM processors?
<agoliveira> khashmeshab: No.
<suihkulokki> For P990, someone woul first need to port Linux kernel for it, before you can start thinking what distro to run on it
<khashmeshab> Is it possible to port Linux (or any other) kernel to P990?
<suihkulokki> if you get the documentation or are willing to reverse engineer the system
<khashmeshab> Linux kernel currently can run on ARM processors. So compiling it might not be so difficault. So the problem is the system design arch. Am I right?
<suihkulokki> khashmeshab: the problem is writing drivers for gsm, touchscreen, power managment, batttery, ...
<khashmeshab> OK! I completely had forgotten them.
<khashmeshab> Thanks a lot everybody, specially suihkulokki!
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-19
<Meiz_n810> Is there a person who knows what major changes did ume-team (or intel?) made to maemos packages, to include statusbar into the panel?
<Meiz_n810> i am using jaunty with hildon from the fremantle (the maemo 5)...
<persia> I have absolutely no idea what was done, but can perhaps help you discover it.
<persia> I'm guessing that it's one of the hildon-plugins, and do know that the source is available via apt-get.
<StevenK> It's likely to be moblin-applets
<persia> Indeed.
<Meiz_n810> hmm...
<persia> Meiz_n810 ?
<Meiz_n810> i have had ubuntu-mobile installed (including marquee-plugins) that gave me panel with statusbar included...
<Meiz_n810> but fremantles hildon-desktop + marquee: not working
<Meiz_n810> this is as far as i can get: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/marquee
<persia> Hrm.  You've looked at the marquee code in Ubuntu already?
<Meiz_n810> i copied config files from ubuntu-mobile... did not mess with source.
<Meiz_n810> but there are other things that are not working with pieces from fremantle...
<Meiz_n810> like, apps still have borders
<persia> From what I understood, fremantle included a fair number of changes to lots of the code.  Moblin also changed some code, and there have been some Ubuntu-specific changes.
<persia> Given that you did get %f to appear, I think it's probably just something with the API that's subtly different.
<Meiz_n810> yep..
<Meiz_n810> ubuntus hildon-desktop adds statusbar-container applet. that's something i could mess with :P
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-20
<vtorri> davidm: ping
<persia> vtorri, based on http://linux.conf.au/programme/schedule/ I suspect you've a few hours to wait, given the relevant timezones.
<vtorri> persia: haaa, ok, thanks :)
<vtorri> i have to go
<vtorri> i'll be back later
<tcdiem> can anyone help me to understand what is better to use on a netbook ? i know that i386 works .. but which one is better to use netbook remix, ubuntu mobile, lpia packages from ports.ubuntu, i386 ??
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-21
<persia> tcdiem_, Really, it's up to you, to determine what you want.  The choice between lpia and i386 ought be based on which you find works better on your hardware.  The choice of packages or flavour is really which you find a good set of defaults from which you can customise your system.
<Guest55353> HI guys
<Guest55353> could I ask some question?
<ogra> :)
<Guest55353> User can expect a new desktop concept for netbooks with Ubuntu ARM or the same desktop present in Ubuntu AMD64 will be port.
<Guest55353> Do you know if any software specific for ARM is under development?
<Guest55353> And any usability study was made to adapt the linux desktop to 10" screen?
<ogra> as i told you in the arm channel, the CPU architecture has nothing to do with the desktop concept :)
<Guest55353> ok
<ogra> we have a team that works on the 1024x600 (or soon 1024x576) desktop stuff 
<Guest55353> but the canonical is trying to enter to tha Netbook market, isn't?
<ogra> (note it also has nothing to do with the screen size, a 10" screen culd happily run 1280x1024)
<ogra> heh
<ogra> canonical is already in the netbook market
<ogra> ubuntu-netbook-remix on netbooks exists since a year 
<Guest55353> So if I have a Netbook with ubuntu, it will be the same that I have on my PC computer?
<ogra> no, the desktop looks different, and the apps are adjusted to fit into 1024x600
<ogra> http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2008/06/03/canonical-announces-the-ubuntu-netbook-remix/ thats how it looks like 
<ogra> (its a very old screenshot, it changes a bit)
<ogra> *changed
<ogra> http://flickr.com/photos/njpatel/tags/netbookremix. has more
<njpatel> note: the first two are mockups
<Guest55353> I'm asking that because everyone are saying that the canonical only empacoted the Debian reposiitori. And I'm trying to discovery if canonical have some Merits
<ogra> empacoted ?
<ogra> what does that word mean ?
<Guest55353> re-packaging debian's package
<Guest55353> sorry
<ogra> ubuntu takes the packages from debian unstable every six months and adds the ubuntu changes to them 
<ogra> whie it is based on the debian packages, you have three months of development going on in ubuntu and three months of stabilization and QA before it gets released
<ogra> *while
<Guest55353> And canonical doesn't develop nothin?
<ogra> canonical sponsors ubuntu ... and has an additional team that does customizations of a stable ubuntu release for customers ...
<ogra> if the customizations make sense they go back into ubuntu 
<ogra> but canonical and ubuntu are distinct one is a company making money with support and customization of a product ... and the other is a product developed by an opensource community
<Guest55353> Like Fedora and Rad Hat
<ogra> ubuntu is just a distro
<ogra> no
<ogra> fedora and redhat are different
<Guest55353> owo
<ogra> canonical doesnt *sell* ubuntu 
<ogra> redhat sells fedora with added stuff
<Guest55353> just support?
<ogra> canonical only offers services around ubuntu
<ogra> and customization
<davmor2> Guest55353: All the updates and stable patches we produce are pushed back  up stream to debian so in effect if you hack on debian or ubuntu you help both projects
<Guest55353> ok
<ogra> i.e. if your company develops some shiny new netbook and you want to be sure ubuntu runs *absolutely perfect* on that device, you can ask canonical to make sure it does and pay for it 
<ogra> and if your product gets released you can make up contracts with canonical that your customers can get support 
<Guest55353> If Gnome don't change the look, canonical will never do. Right?
<ogra> you are mixing up things :) 
<ogra> if *ubuntu* finds something looks better than gnome develops it, it might change something (and indeed send that change to gnome as well)
<Guest55353> sorry
<ogra> in ubuntu there are changes that gnome didnt accept 
<ogra> if canonical makes changes to ubuntu that might fit into the distro, canonical sends them to ubuntu ... 
<ogra> ... ubuntu sends them to gnome 
<Guest55353> Like Mack sad that in Ubuntu 9.04 it will changes into usability and other stuffs, but if Gnome or other projects don't chenge nothin, how canonical could promiss that?
<ogra> if gnome accepts the changes they show up in gnome ... if not and ubuntu still wants the change it will only be in ubuntu
<ogra> as i said, ubuntu has changes gnome doesnt like ... but these changes are still in ubuntu
<Guest55353> nice
<ogra> indeed, keeping such changes and adjusting them for each new gnome is a lot of work
<ogra> so indeed, ubuntu prefers it if the changes are accepted by gnome
<Guest55353> Why everyone say that Canonical don't cotribute? With like Novell
<ogra> but if they arent and ubuntu wants to keep them, ubuntu keeps the change in place
<ogra> you have to aks the people that say that :)
<ogra> *ask
<ogra> there are surely areas where canonical makes less changes ... i.e. the kernel ... so there are not many changes to send to the upstream developers
<Guest55353> They sad that canonica's only re-packaging debian's package
<Guest55353> why don't make a union Debina-Canonical?
<ogra> thats not true
<ogra> because debian doesnt have a stable release cycle 
<ogra> many changes from ubuntu go into debian
<Guest55353> or why don't improve dkgk engeene?
<Guest55353> dpkg
<Guest55353> like Novell did with zypper....
<ogra> many changes to dpkg were made by ubuntu in the last five years, most of them are in debian
<Guest55353> have a place so I can read?
<ogra> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/debian probably
<Guest55353> I like Canonical and Ubuntu, but I don't have arguments to debat with Debian's lovers or OpenSUSE.... Thats why I'm asking you gys
<Guest55353> Like Now, everyone are looking for Ubunto-arm port
<ogra> thats good :)
<Guest55353> but if canonical only re-packaging the ubuntu repository, it will be a failure
<ogra> why do you think that ? 
<Guest55353> because, mobile things need a special atencion
<Guest55353> have a small screen
<ogra> mobile != ARM
<ogra> :)
<Guest55353> so it needs a usability study
<Guest55353> mobile use ARM
<ogra> we have the ubuntu mobile edition (which is a desktop, independent of what CPU you use) and we have the ubuntu netbook remix (which is also a desktop flavour and again not depending on the CPU)
<ogra> the GUI you use doesnt have anything to do with the CPU ;)
<Guest55353> ok
<ogra> for ARM simply *all* packages in ubuntu will be made available on that CPU architecture 
<Guest55353> this Canonical-ARM is to Desktop?
<ogra> its up to you if you want to use ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-mobile, ubuntu-netbook or even xubuntu or kde on your hardware
<ogra> for this release we focus on desktop, server and probably netbooks for ARM ... 
<ogra> this release will come out in april
<ogra> for the next release you might be able to get more i.e. ubuntu-mobile and other desktop flavours on ARM
<ogra> (next release will come out in october)
<Guest55353> why Canonical don't port gnome to qt4.5?
<Guest55353> lol
<ogra> because we would hae to call it KDE then :)
<Guest55353> where is the ubuntu 9.04 channel?
<ogra> #ubuntu+1 i think
<Guest55353> no
<Guest55353> KDE is a holycrap
<ogra> did you try kubuntu ?
<ogra> its not much different to the ubuntu desktop 
<Guest55353> KDE don't works
<Guest55353> there programas aren't good
<Guest55353> like Koopete, it's a joke
<Guest55353> Dolphin, hahaha
<raph_ael> hello
<persia> hello raph_ael 
<amitk> useful link comparing various wear-levelling flash fs: http://free-electrons.com/pub/conferences/2008/jm2l/flash-filesystems.pdf
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-22
<Pcfr34k> hello
<Pcfr34k> question: has someone tried ubuntu mobile on the Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1?
<Pcfr34k> ubuntu mobile is new to me
<persia> Pcfr34k, That's a nifty bit of hardware.  Can it boot off SD?
<Pcfr34k> 256 MB RAM, 512 MB ROM, Qualcomm MSM7200 528MHz processor
<persia> Or is there a hack to overwrite the flash?
<Pcfr34k> microsd
<persia> I'd expect you'd need to run Jaunty on it, if anything, because there isn't ARM support for any of the released versions.
<persia> Mind you, I wouldn't expect the phone functions or FM radio to work.  Probably 20% chance for GPS.
<Pcfr34k> i expected that yes
<persia> For the GPS/FM Radio, the main issue is drivers.  For phone functions, there's two issues: drivers, and lack of a a software stack for actually dialing a phone.
<persia> Otherwise, it ought work a charm.
<playya> moin
<Pcfr34k> is it possible to sual boot?
<persia> Well, probably no accelerated X, but one doesn't really need GL on a device that size :)
<Pcfr34k> dual*
<persia> There's no reason you can't dual-boot Ubuntu.  I have *no* idea if that device supports dual boot, or how it boots, or anything.
<persia> I'd recommend looking for a device-specific forum on dual-booting or booting from SD or reflashing, and once you know what the device can do, look at software.
<persia> Based on what I see for other phones, there's probably a good bit of kernel hacking needs doing.
<persia> I run Ubuntu on a Sharp D4, but it doesn't work as a phone, the WiFi drivers don't load properly, the power management is a bit wonky, etc.  There's a good bit of base work to get the kernel working, after which the OS is easy.
<Pcfr34k> for what i know about the x1 is that is uses the HTC chipset
<playya> Pcfr34k, do you know which GSM chip is in there?
<Pcfr34k> for the network for calling?
<playya> for calling, gprs, ...
<Pcfr34k> lokking up...
<Pcfr34k> found the whitepaper of the x1
<Pcfr34k> http://developer.sonyericsson.com/site/global/docstools/phonespecs/p_phonespecs.jsp
<Pcfr34k> loooking op hardware
<persia> playya, Are there apps that support that, for some chips?
<Pcfr34k> UART2 and USIM
<Pcfr34k> GSM and UMTS chips
<playya> persia, the fso stack
<playya> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/index.html;hb=HEAD
<persia> Hrm.  Looks like good thought, but I'm a little unclear as to whether this provides generic support.  Ideally, I'd like audio to feed into general services (e.g. pulseaudio), and be able to use something like the sl-modem stack also as a backend.
<persia> Most of these specs seem to be based on deep-embedded concepts.
<playya> this is possible if you provide a alsa state file an chose it in fso.device.autdio
<persia> So basically, ALSA or pulse audio interfaces would just be made available to the fso.device.audio implementation?
<persia> And I suppose one would just define support for fso.Phone to handle an sl-modem backend.
<playya> i never used it. not yet
<persia> Still, looks interesting.  I'm mostly looking forward to the day when I don't have to tell people "Yes, it might work on that device, but not as a phone".
<playya> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem#Call_recording if this will work you schould also be able to pass this to pulseaudio/gstreamer
<playya> argh. wrong articel
<playya> harald welte wrote sth about how this works
<Pcfr34k> It seems the phone OS "Android" is succesfully ported to the X1
<playya> :( FIXME: test this. There's currently a ASoC kernel driver bug preventing audio capture from working at all. 
<persia> Pcfr34k, If someone was able to boot Android, then there's a way to boot something else.  Next thing to investigate is which kernel flavour you need.  Once you have that, you could try to do something with an Ubuntu rootfs.
<persia> Pcfr34k, I'd recommend hunting down for how to get Linux installed on it.  For questions about initial bring-up, #ubuntu-arm might be better.
<persia> Once you have at least a CLI Ubuntu system working, installing ubuntu MID becomes relatively easy, and this becomes the right place to talk about issues with the apps, settings, etc.
<Pcfr34k> ok, thanks very much
<Pcfr34k> i use ubuntu in daily life on i386 and mobile version of linux was unknown to me
<Pcfr34k> you guys helped me very much
<persia> playya, Interesting.  I suspect we'll end up with an ALSA driver or pulse module at some point (depending on whether it needs to be in kernelspace) which handles that.
<persia> Pcfr34k, You might want to try it in a virtual machine (qemu or kvm) first, just to make sure you like the interface before you get too involved in hacking your device.
<playya> s/hacking/breaking
<Pcfr34k> i tested the netbook packages, or what was it?
<playya> have to go now. see you later
<Pcfr34k> i like the interface
<Pcfr34k> bye bye
<Pcfr34k> but im someone who likes it al, or most, working
<Pcfr34k> im using the Acer Aspire One, is UMPC good for that?
<Pcfr34k> im using it now with Ubuntu i386
<persia> Pcfr34k, Depends on how cramped you feel.  If you want the one-app-at-a-time experience, I'd say yes.  If not, I'd say no.
<Pcfr34k> i stick to the ubuntu desktop then
<persia> Pcfr34k, That said, it's just a matter of apt-get install ubuntu-mobile to find out (I think).  Pay attention to what gets installed, because if you don't like it, that's what you'll need to purge.
<Pcfr34k> thank for the info
<Pcfr34k> im out
<Pcfr34k> bye bye
 * ogra carefully pokes the datacenter
<ogra> is it only me ? 
<ogra> hrm, looks like a routing prob at my provider :/
<persia> Then it's you and a few thousand other people.  It's not me.
<ogra> yeah, seems a router is borked
<ogra> but  better now
 * ogra always needs a moment to remember the new traceroute is called tracepath
<persia> Team meeting in 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
<playya> may i join too?
 * Hobbsee holds up the "community! community! community!" flag
<persia> playya, Certainly.  It's open to anyone.
<playya> ok. when i'm at home. last lesson !!
<persia> playya, There's still a couple minutes to get something on the agenda, if you want to add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090122
<persia> (of course, you'd be expected to discuss the topic)
<ogra> we'll chase you down if you dont ! :P
<playya> bye
<ogra> heh
<ogra> run playya run
<persia> ogra, Regarding Mer & moblin2 : I wouldn't expect significant clashes, because of the levels at which each group works.  If Moblin2 contains stuff derived from newer Maemo userspace, it would probably already include the Mer patches having been pushed through Maemo.
<persia> If Moblin2 doesn't contain that stuff, then it's just different software libraries, and there's no impact at all.
<ogra> well, moblin merges hildon and clutter 
<ogra> on a lib level ... at least as i undrestood it
<persia> As a new library, or with lots of deep patches?
<ogra> maemo might work differently on that layer
<ogra> no idea, but i know they have different approaches on the lib level
<persia> Or just an abstract "framework"?
<ogra> but lool knows more, i know he took an actual look at moblin2
<ogra> i can only talk about heresay
<persia> And tends to hang out on #maemo where most of the Mer discussion happens :)
<persia> I think I'll poke him for review of the spec once I get it drafted then.
<ogra> that comment was totally based on assumption and lack of detailed knowledge
<ogra> yeah, having lool take a look definately makes most sense
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-23
<Celtiore> hi
<persia> Hey
<Celtiore> hi persia 
<Celtiore> finally aigo mid working with ubuntu 8.04 + wifi + touchscreen :)
<Celtiore> but i have one question
<persia> What's that?
<Celtiore> it is possible to build or find an 8.04 img with 'umpc' desktop
<persia> I don't think so.
<persia> You might be able to build one, but I think there are some things that were new in 8.10 for umpc
<Celtiore> :(
<persia> Yeah, well.
<persia> We basically need drivers for the missing bits to be rebuildable against current kernel/X.
<persia> Unfortunately, that specific HW has some restrictions, which makes it difficult.
<Celtiore> ok
<Celtiore> next time, i ask before here which one to buy :)
<Celtiore> do you know if listing is avalaible for best compatibility with ubuntu mid or ubuntu umpc ?
<persia> I don't know if there's such a listing: generally it's about checking the specs, and making sure each component is supported.  You might also try a live USB stick at the shop
<Celtiore> hi
<Celtiore> i try the ubuntu-8.10-mid-lpia.img, but don't find how to install it ?! :p
<persia> Celtiore, I don't remember just now, but there should be an "Install" option in one of the display menus.  Maybe "Preferences"?
<Celtiore> right persia :p
<Celtiore> hi
<Celtiore> where can i find ' gtk-update-icon-cache '
<Celtiore> i try to install blueman on 8.04 but i have one error
<ogra> libgtk2.0-bin
<Celtiore> thanks you
<ogra> dpkg -S $(which gtk-update-icon-cache) helps btw ;)
<Celtiore> thanks you ogra , working fine, but i have always blueman same error :(
<lunartear> I'm in serious need of help figuring out my problem with verizon/tmobile on a blackberry dealing with tcp connections in a vmware setup if anyone is knowledgable of that kind of environment 
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-24
<Darksmurf> Anyone know if there is work being done on bluetooth dun GUI support?
<bow^znc_> the network manager 0.7 mobile broadband integration supposedly works with blueman 1.0 svn
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-01-25
<Darksmurf> blueman is amazing.
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-25
<rbelem> asac, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/plasma-mobile
<rbelem> asac, i just uploaded
<asac> rbelem: check the big warnings ;)
<asac> Warnings / Notices
<asac> those should definitly be fixed
<asac> for maintainer, maybe run update-maintainer
<asac> with some luck it does the right thing
<asac> e.g. adds current maintainer as XSBC-Original-Maintainer
<rbelem> asac, ok
<asac> and uses ubuntu-devel-discuss or something in Maintainer
<asac> also fix changelog bug number ;)
<asac> open a bug if you havent
<rbelem> asac, cool!
<rbelem> thanks asac 
<asac> not sure, but is the copyright format really dep-5?
<asac> +Files: ./shell/mobcorona.cpp: LGPL  (v2 or later)
<asac> +       ./shell/mobcorona.h: LGPL (v2 or later)
<asac> +       ./shell/plasmaapp.cpp: LGPL (v2 or later)
<asac> i think that should be more:
<asac> Files: ./shell/mobcorona.cpp, ./shell/mobcorona.h, ./shell/plasmaapp.cpp,
<asac> License:  LGPL  (v2 or later)
<asac> Copyright: ...
<asac> also it the entries are comma separated
<asac> so dont do 2007, Copyright ...
<rbelem> asac, can i use "Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com>" in maintainer field?
<asac> rather (C) 2007 - Company X, (C) 2008 - Person B etc.
<asac> rbelem: we dont use that anymore
<asac> just Ubuntu Developers
<rbelem> asac, cool!
<asac> (as the MOTU/MAIN split will go away eventually)
<rbelem> i will copyright too
<asac> yes
<rbelem> persia warned me about that, but i did'n t pay attention :-(
<asac> dumped those comments to revu
<asac> heh
<rbelem> :-)
<asac> rbelem: any reason you have debhelper (>= 7.3.16~) and quilt (>= 0.46-7~) ?
<asac> e.g. those specific versions
<asac> if not, just drop that
<rbelem> asac, ok
<asac> e.g. (>= 7) ... and just quilt
<asac> rbelem: or why did you choose those?
<asac> i mean ... could be they are required for something like --with-kde
<asac> just wonder
<rbelem> asac, just added
<asac> if thats intentional
<rbelem> ah ok
<asac> ok ... if you didnt do that intentional then its probably like i said
<rbelem> ok
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> Um, we need those minimum versions of debhelper and quilt.
<persia> Earlier versions of quilt don't have --with quilt, and earlier versions of debhelper have a bug with --with kde and the version of pkg-kde-tools we're using.
<asac> persia: thas why i made that comment conditional
<asac> 01:16 < asac> ok ... if you didnt do that intentional then its probably like i said
<asac> -> intentional includes: persia told to use those versions ;)
<persia> Right.  Just wanted to provide data :)
<asac> reminder: help linux by using older stuff ;)
<persia> Except the new stuff is extra cool :)
<asac> debhelper is not even fulfillable by karmic ;)
<persia> Plus, #kubuntu-devel told us to use --with kde which blocks karmic backports anyway.
<asac> yeah. i should out more there ;)
<asac> but probably the misery starts in #kde-devel
<asac> e.g. the upstream code most likely requires all the latest anyway ;)
<asac> s/out/hang out/
<persia> Well, it depends, but yeah, there's usually requirements of some sort.
<asac> persia: did this lib-test ppa thing work out for you ? or do you need something there still?
<asac> probably -arm ;)
<persia> heh. :)
<persia> But doesn't matter.  I'm set, just behind.
<asac> ok
<persia> Should be there before the meeting.
<asac> irc?
<asac> that would be great
<rbelem> asac, persia, i'm getting a launchpad error when submitting the bug :-(
<persia> rbelem: What sort of error?
<asac> try again
<asac> launchpad is sometimes instable
<asac> ;)
<persia> sometimes?
<asac> no comment
<asac> :-P
<rbelem> oops! Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad. Error ID: OOPS-1486F57
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1486F57
<persia> And we now end yet another episode of "asac plays it safe" as our hero has yet again escaped the temptations of fate :)
<asac> hehe
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> rbelem: Yeah, that's not very informative :)  Maybe a timeout (those have been happening a lot).  Sometimes you can get detailed explanations from #launchpad, but often it's not worth it unless you can't do it after several tries.
<asac> launchpad isnt that bad ... assume we would work with bugzilla, cvs and forums ;)
<rbelem> ehehe
<asac> or sourceforge ;)
<persia> Well, forums are active, and we used to use bugzilla ...
<persia> But I think, even in the beginning, we would have at least used svn, if any VCS.
<rbelem> do you know if launchpad will support git?
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> Not for at least some time, and it may not be activated at launchpad.net, even if implemented.
<persia> (this is a common question on #launchpad)
<rbelem> :-)
 * rbelem kicks launchpad
<rbelem> damn!
<rbelem> i will try again in some hours
<persia> asac: (C) doesn't mean anything: one needs to use Â© or spell out "Copyright"
<asac> yes
<asac> but its ok ;)
<asac> i think often its used both
<rbelem> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/362296/
<rbelem> persia, can you check if debian/copyright is ok?
<rbelem> :-)
<asac> the copyright still has comma to separte year from holder
<asac> but comma is used to split copyright blocks
<rbelem> ah ok :-)
<asac> hmm. seems you were right
<rbelem> asac, but in this link http://dep.debian.net/deps/dep5/ 
<rbelem> :-)
<asac> strange format
<rbelem> ehehehe
<asac> so copyright requires new lines for separating blocks it seems
 * rbelem kicks launchpad again
<rbelem> yep
<rbelem> asac, do i need to bump version before upload to revu?
<asac> not sure.
<asac> i dont think so, but persia will know
<asac> i would probably just try same version
<asac> and see how that goes
<rbelem> asac, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/plasma-mobile
<rbelem> asac, what can i do with the last warning?
<asac> rbelem: the licenes blocks need to have a reference to the full license
<asac> if they are in /usr/share/common-license you can say something like this:
<asac> "on an ubuntu/debian system, the GPL-2 license can be found in /usr/share/common/...."
<asac> e.g. appe nd that to each of the current license blocks
<rbelem> cool!
<asac> and the LP bug is probably in the changelog
<rbelem> :-)
<asac> so replace that number with a proper bug id in lp
<asac> or drop it
<rbelem> ok
<persia> For debian/copyright, it's often considered good it identify the current upstream (with Maintainer: in the first paragraph), in case anyone wants to contact them.
<persia> (otherwise people spam all the copyright holders)
<rbelem> persia, it still complaining about the copyright
<rbelem> asac, ^
 * persia checks
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> I'm just running a build now to also check the binary.
<persia> rbelem: What's complaining about copyright?
<rbelem> persia, The GNU General Public License is mentioned in debian/copyright but there seems to be no copy of it included in the source tarball, which is a requirement for it. (Note: The file may be there but have an uncommon name; please double-check before trusting this warning).
<persia> Oh, right.  Given that upstream doesn't ship a tarball, just copy it in from /usr/share/common-licenses in get-orig-source
<persia> But tell upstream to stick a copy in the VCS for when they do make a tarball.
<persia> You'll need copies of both the GPL and LGPL (as will upstream).
<rbelem> persia, cool! :-)
<rbelem> persia, they should be in separated files?
<persia> Mind you, it's really supposed to come from upstream, but I think the intent is clear, and there isn't an upstream tarball anyway.
<persia> Yes.  I'd probably stick them in files called GPL and LGPL, but practices vary.
<rbelem> something like LICENSE.GPL
<rbelem> ?
<persia> If you like.  Doesn't really matter, as long as it's obvious to someone who gets the tarball.
<persia> Remember that it's perfectly possible to download a tarball from the archive without running (or using) Ubuntu, so there's a chance the user doesn't have a copy of the licenses.
<rbelem> cool
<rbelem> persia, i'm going to bed now
<persia> OK.  I'll update get-orig-source for the licenses, and fix anything I find from the binary and upload to REVU again.
<persia> Sleep well.
<rbelem> persia, launchpad bug submit is not working, so i did not fill a bug
<rbelem> thanks persia 
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> I'll try to file one later then.
<rbelem> s/fill/file :-D
<rbelem> ok
<rbelem> thank persia asac 
 * rbelem leaves
<asac_> hmm. seems i cant log into my irc gateway :/
<asac_> anything important happened here?
<persia> Mostly joins/parts since you last posted
<asac_> ok
<rbelem> persia, ping
<persia> Erm.
<rbelem> eheheh
<rbelem> persia, did you filed the bug?
<rbelem> s/filed/file/
<persia> I didn't.  I've been trying to sort out how plasma-mobile actually works (as opposed to just how it's packaged), and got distracted by a couple things over the course of the day.
 * persia files a quick bug now
<rbelem> eheeh
<persia> Some of the messages that I'm seeing from lintian on the binary package aren't making much sense to me.
<persia> And I'm not sure about others (like whether we need symbols for stuff in /usr/lib/kde4)
<rbelem> persia, i think the same
<persia> Some of the stuff, like binary-without-manpage and copyright-should-refer-to-common-license-file-for-gpl are easy.
<persia> But I don't have the feeling this is a library.
<persia> And I'm not quite sure what we need to do to make sure the package understands that.
<rbelem> persia, what do you think is better to me pick to do?
<rbelem> persia, those changes to kdebase?
<persia> rbelem: Yeah, keep chasing kdm-mobile.
<rbelem> persia, cool!
<persia> I'll focus more on plasma-mobile, and see if I can come to a decision about a sane way to work around this.
<persia> bug #512319
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 512319 in ubuntu "Please package plasma-mobile" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512319
<rbelem> cool! :-)
<persia> rbelem: What's your LP ID?
<rbelem> persia, rbelem
<rbelem> :-)
<persia> Bug triaged :)
<rbelem> thanks persia :-)
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-26
<rbelem> hi persia 
 * rbelem comes back tomorrow 
<rbelem> hi persia 
<asac> hi rbelem .... -meeting in 10? :)
<rbelem> hi asac :-)
<rbelem> yep
<asac> greta
<asac> great
<rbelem> :-)
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-27
<rbelem> hi asac
<rbelem> hi persia 
<rbelem> could you take at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/plasma-mobile? :-)
<rbelem> *take a look
<JamieBennett> NCommander: pong
<JamieBennett> doh wrong channel
<rd> hello
<rd> does any one know how to download ubuntu mobile on an n800?
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-28
<asac> o/
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-30
<rbelem> hi asac 
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-01-31
<rbelem> hi asac 
<rbelem> r u there?
<rbelem> :-)
<asac> hi rbelem 
<asac> whats up?
<rbelem> asac, plasma mobile is almost ok, i just have some doubts about licensing
<rbelem> asac, the upstream author added some files
<rbelem> asac, and did not insert the copyright
<rbelem> and i want to discuss an idea about kdm
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> asac, can you take a look at the plasma-mobile package?
<asac> do you have te link at hand?
<rbelem> asac, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/plasma-mobile
<rbelem> :-)
<asac> persia: already in portland?
<asac> rbelem: usually files added without copyright are assumed to be governed by the same license as the full source (subtree)
<asac> so thats ok
<rbelem> asac, cool!
<rbelem> :-)
<asac> its only problematic if it explicitly says: "all rights reserved" witout a license
<asac> but if there is no info about copyright etc. then its usually fine
<rbelem> asac, i think tomorrow i will talk to the maintainer and i will ask to him update the copyright or just clarify the situation with him
<asac> right. thats best
<asac> oterwise its usually ok
<asac> as i said
<rbelem> asac, about kdm now :-)
<asac> but perfect would be to have full license info in the files themselve
<rbelem> cool
<rbelem> :-)
<rbelem> i'm having some problems with kdm
<rbelem> i was currently trying to build it outside kdebase-workspace
<rbelem> i get almost 90% of the code compiled
<rbelem> asac, just a second - someones at the door
<rbelem> the problem is a dependency in kcontrol inside the kdebase-workspace
<rbelem> the kcontrol builds a .so that is installed in the kdm package
<rbelem> so probably i need to take out this code to build it
<rbelem> this is what is missing to get it ready
<rbelem> but
<rbelem> i was thinking about some features that would be nice to have on kdm-mobile
<rbelem> first
<rbelem> create something like an initial setup
<rbelem> to do what oem-config does today or something like it
<rbelem> second
<rbelem> create an alternative method to authenticate and login
<rbelem> like a pin code on mobile phones
<rbelem> or a lock screen like android's
<rbelem> this shouldn't be too difficult to hack
<rbelem> what do you think about these ideas?
<rbelem> asac, http://identi.ca/attachment/8072583 plasma-mobile screenshot :-)
<ogra> rbelem, cute 
<asac> nice
<asac> what is that number pad?
<rbelem> asac, i don't know :-)
 * rbelem kicks keypad
<rbelem> ogra, it think it will get more attractive as time goes by
<rbelem> :-)
<ogra> well, it looks quite good already :)
<rbelem> ogra, one nice thing about plasma-mobile is that it will use qml, so the look n' feel can be changed completely by changing a template
<asac> rbelem: do you know if something like the PIN auth already exists?
<rbelem> asac, well i think we can do this via ofono http://ofono.org/
<rbelem> asac, i used this before :-)
<ian_brasil> rbelem, i will update the blueprint/burndown if this is packaged 
<rbelem> ian_brasil, ok :-)
<rbelem> ian_brasil, but i just discovered a bug
<ian_brasil> rbelem, we need to get moving for FF with the kwin & kdm stuff also
<rbelem> ian_brasil, ok, i think for kdm we don't need to bother about kdebase-workspace packaging changes
<rbelem> ian_brasil, this week we will work on kwin
<ian_brasil> what will you do and is it a lot of work?
<ian_brasil> oh and unless you can do the PIN stuff quickly i suggest leaving it until after lucid
<rbelem> ian_brasil, i don't know yet :-(
<rbelem> at least it is not very clear
<rbelem> ian_brasil, maybe we should go back to the virtual keyboard integrated with kwin
<rbelem> ian_brasil, the plasmaboard plasmoid is not enough for mobile needs
<ian_brasil> rbelem, damn..shame that did not work out
<rbelem> ian_brasil, it is just a plasmoid it is not gonna save the world :-P
<asac> rbelem: ok yeah ... we could also use modemmanager probably ... i think we have no ofono in the archive yet. do you know if thats completely free software?
