#ubuntu-learning 2009-11-30
<pleia2> ah, we don't have to do it that day, we can do it on the 16th if you'd rather
<pleia2> we need to decide soon though
<pleia2> or on the 30th :)
<FFEMTcJ> I don't really care..
<FFEMTcJ> Whatever is best for others
<FFEMTcJ> I could always come up with a case of anal glaucoma
<pleia2> o_o
<FFEMTcJ> if you know what that is
<cprofitt> hello all
<cprofitt> pleia2: how are ya doing?
<pleia2> cprofitt: exhausted :)
<pleia2> cprofitt: you?
<cprofitt> De-motivated... lost... confused...
<cprofitt> other than that...
<cprofitt> fine
<nigel_nb> cprofitt: what de-motivated you?
<cprofitt> I am just not sure what to do about that potential job opening nigel_nb
<nigel_nb> whether to take it or not?
<cprofitt> http://www.spencerportschools.org/jobs.cfm?job=3950&cat=3&getjob=1
<cprofitt> well... if I should apply actually
<nigel_nb> what are you waiting for ? go for it
<cprofitt> well...
<cprofitt> it would add 1 hour to my drive time each day
<cprofitt> they would likely want me to work 10 hours more a day than I do now
<nigel_nb> keeps you away frm your kids longer right?
<cprofitt> I like being near my kids... despite them being annoying at times
<nigel_nb> :)
<cprofitt> the money would only be between 1K and 14K more...
<cprofitt> the 14K would be good...
<nigel_nb> :P
<nigel_nb> but its only 12 months?
<cprofitt> I also have to wonder if it would impact my involvement in FOSS
<cprofitt> its a permanent position unless I screw up
<cprofitt> in EDU space all administrative positions are listed as 12 months
<nigel_nb> oh
<nigel_nb> then u are in a dilemma my friend
<nigel_nb> you'll need to make call, whats important in life for you
<nigel_nb> now I get your situation :(
<cprofitt> exactly....
<cprofitt> while it would be nice to have a more 'leadership' position and $$$ to go with it....
<cprofitt> the time would take me away from my family and potentially away from F/OSS stuff.
<cprofitt> there is also a fear it would be mostly a 'paperwork' job and not a 'technical' job
<nigel_nb> F/OSS would be something you'll live with, but I think the more important thing is being away from your family
<nigel_nb> you can't move closer?
<cprofitt> no... my oldest is in school already -- and really do not want to move her
<cprofitt> F/OSS is my 'hobby' right now... my 'relaxation'
<nigel_nb> same here
<nigel_nb> the only way I can get rid of the frustration at work
<nigel_nb> to talk to a few people half way around the world and help people
<nigel_nb> what did pleia2 say?
<cprofitt> pleia2: did not comment.
<nigel_nb> :(
<pleia2> pleia2 is still half on vacation :)
<nigel_nb> I thought the weekend was up :)
<pleia2> catching up on about a hundred thousand little things I've let go throughout the week
<nigel_nb> hehe, UDS plus thanksgiving strain?
<pleia2> yeah, I'm a mess :)
<pleia2> and pretending I don't have a cold
<cprofitt> sorry to hear that pleia2
<pleia2> I am not sure if I do, or if I'm just tired and having allergy issues
<cprofitt> I am not sure... if I would rather a cold or the decision I am facing
<nigel_nb> I'm here running around barking like mad
<nigel_nb> caught a cough on monday, refuses to leave me alone
<cprofitt> err.. why?
<cprofitt> I truly wish I could get a 'state' job that lets me do FOSS
<cprofitt> that is what I want...
<cprofitt> ... now the question is how to 'make' or 'find' that job
<pleia2> cprofitt: is this potential new job on the path to finding a foss job?
<pleia2> I suck at career counseling, but it seems to me that if you really want a state job that does foss, taking opportunities in that direction would help (and making sacrifices for those that won't might be silly)
<cprofitt> pleia2: true...
<nigel_nb> pleia2: +1
<cprofitt> no... the new job would more than likely = less techcnial pleia2
 * pleia2 nods
<cprofitt> there is a small chance, since I would be making decisions... that I could move the district to using FOSS
<nigel_nb> I was about to ask you that :)
<cprofitt> I would not make all the decisions... as other administrators, teachers etc would have a say
<cprofitt> but I could stear that direction...
<cprofitt> on the back end the call we be more mine than theirs... but front end would be more suggesting
<cprofitt> that again is what complicates things...
 * pleia2 nods
<cprofitt> that and my job is very stable... a new one would put me on a 12 month probabion period
<cprofitt> probation
<pleia2> do you like your current job?
<cprofitt> I love my job.
<cprofitt> query pleia2
<cprofitt> hope you got the private
<pleia2> yeah
<cprofitt> night all
 * _marx_ wishes cprofitt great wisdom
<FFEMTcJ> pleia2: ?
<doctormo> evening FFEMTcJ
<FFEMTcJ> MORNIN doctormo
<FFEMTcJ> uggh.. sorry for yellin
<doctormo> Tis ok
<FFEMTcJ> I have had my lappy 3 years and still dont like the keyboard
<pleia2> FFEMTcJ: hm?
<FFEMTcJ> have you still not heard from Saj0577 ?
<pleia2> FFEMTcJ: nothing from Saj, I think we have to give up on his help for now
<FFEMTcJ> Gotcha..
<pleia2> BT has a meeting tomorrow evening, we'll talk to them about "officially" helping us with userdays then
#ubuntu-learning 2009-12-01
<cprofitt> nhandler: are you in Mass now?
<nhandler> cprofitt: No, why would I be?
<KyleUK86> hi guys
<zach_> hello KyleUK86
<KyleUK86> i have a hp dv5000 and im having trouble getting my network card to work with ubuntu
<KyleUK86> have tried driver wrapping but unfortunately i am unable to get it to work
<pleia2> KyleUK86: we do course development here for teaching ubuntu, you probably want to head over to #ubuntu for actual support :)
<ZachK_> or #ubuntu-beginners
<pleia2> well, #ubuntu-beginners-help
<pleia2> -beginners is the social channel
<ZachK_> :)
<KyleUK86> ah thanks i'll head over there soon im private messaging another user who told me not to go away for the time being
<KyleUK86> is it ok if i hang around for a little while?
<ZachK_> of course
<pleia2> :)
<KyleUK86> good news, cheers guys
<ZachK_> KyleUK86: huh?
<ZachK_> KyleUK86: still there?
<KyleUK86> yes mate
<ZachK_> KyleUK86: awesome
<KyleUK86> how is the dreve install coming along?
<KyleUK86> drive*
<pleia2> I sent a reminder to the list, but just in case: We're going to ask the Beginners team to be involved with UUDs tonight at their 22UTC meeting in #ubuntu-beginners
<akgraner> pleia2, when you get a chance can you take a look at the gobby doc for the loco leadership stuff?
<akgraner> I need to make sure the action items are correct
<pleia2> akgraner: sure, I should have some time in a couple hours
<akgraner> and do I attach the wiki for the learning team stuff or Loco teams...
<akgraner> pleia2, when you feel better.. not in a huge hurry... just if I don't mention it now.. well you know...
<akgraner> doctormo, I asked pleia2 as well but I wanted to know if you can take a look at the gobby doc  for loco leadership and make sure I didn't miss any action items...since you and pleia2 have most of the action items on their...:-D  Thank you.. oh and please add anything I left off...
<akgraner> that way I can update the blueprint  :-)
<akgraner> doctormo, Thank you to you and pleia2 in advance for looking over it....:-D
<doctormo> akgraner: Could you post me a link? that would help me a lot;
<akgraner> oh you have to connect to gobby...:-)
<akgraner> and the title is community-lucid-locoleader-document
<pleia2> I also uploaded it here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/community-lucid-locoleader-document
<doctormo> OK I see what I got to do, I can do that.
<doctormo> Though for some reason I don't remember putting it in there... heh
<akgraner> pleia2, and doctormo thank you both.. so much!
<akgraner> I always forget about people.ubuntu.com..  sigh
<UNTOUCHABLE1> Salut tout le monde !
<doctormo> pleia2: Did you manage to listen to my radio interview?
<pleia2> doctormo: yes :) it was great
<doctormo> pleia2: Oh good, I was hoping jono or popy would comment, since I've been playing with how I would describe things.
<_marx_> doctormo: link to interview pls
<doctormo> _marx_: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/pods/pods_20091201-0330a.mp3
<_marx_> ty
#ubuntu-learning 2009-12-03
<nigel_nb> pleia2: ping
<nigel_nb> where is the meeting gonna be?
<nigel_nb> ubuntu-meeting or here?
<Vantrax> dunno, we will find out:P
<nigel_nb> hmm..thanks Vantrax :)
<Vantrax> dont thank me.... im not helpful:P
<nigel_nb> haha...
<nigel_nb> any response is helpful
<nigel_nb> shows that I'm not the only one in the dark
<Vantrax> lol, your not alone in the world.... we see your text and puzzle over its hidden meaning
<nigel_nb> hidden meaning?
<Vantrax> dunno, it could be a secret meeting for the society for abused gerbils....
<Vantrax> or disadvantaged hampsters..
<Vantrax> or the Overwieght Elephant Support Group:P
<nigel_nb> hahaha
<Vantrax> I guess all it takes is a warped imagination and a somewhat different idea of reality
<nigel_nb> I'm trying to decide whether u have warped imagination or a different idea of reality :P
<Vantrax> why not both
<nigel_nb> ah, could be
<BottledHate> red pill.
<nigel_nb> haha
<nigel_nb> we could try pulling the plug
#ubuntu-learning 2009-12-04
* pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-learning to: Ubuntu Community Learning Project | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning | Next Meeting: Sunday, December 6, 2009 @ 9PM EST (Monday, December 7, @ 2AM UTC) | Support in #ubuntu
* pleia2 changed the topic of #ubuntu-learning to: Ubuntu Community Learning Project | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning | Next Meeting: Sunday, December 6, 2009 @ 9PM EST (Monday, December 7, @ 2AM UTC) in #ubuntu-meeting | Support in #ubuntu
<nigel_nb> pleia2: just saw your mail
<pleia2> nigel_nb: thoughts?
<nigel_nb> mine is an intro to bzr
<pleia2> I was hoping we could hash some of this out before our meeting on sunday so we don't bog the meeting down with it
<nigel_nb> essentially what doctormo wrote on his blog in a asciidoc class form
<pleia2> ok, so you talk about "log into bzr, here is how you commit changes.." etc?
<nigel_nb> yes
<nigel_nb> wrt to uclp
<pleia2> great
<nigel_nb> I've finished first draft of 5 sections (half)
<pleia2> close to finishing that?
<pleia2> ok :)
<nigel_nb> since u want it escalated, I'll drop everything and get the first draft complete today and put it up for review
<pleia2> thanks, you rock!
<pleia2> now I need to track down BiosElement for asciidoc ;)
<nigel_nb> :)
<nigel_nb> you'll be available online?
<nigel_nb> today i mean
<pleia2> for another hour at least, I have a terrible cold that is making me sleep like 14 hours/day
<nigel_nb> ah :P, join the club
<nigel_nb> but I'm still kickin though
<pleia2> :)
<nigel_nb> I'll start off then, so I can check with you on language
<pleia2> great, thanks
<nigel_nb> pleia2: tircd shows you replies from people that you're not following?
<pleia2> nigel_nb: the client doesn't control that, it's the twitter api
<nigel_nb> oh ok :)
<pleia2> but yeah, it does
<nigel_nb> have to try it out later then
<nigel_nb> oh, lp is down
<pleia2> doh
<BiosElement> pleia2: I'm around >.>
<pleia2> hey BiosElement :)
<pleia2> see my email?
<BiosElement> Aye.
<pleia2> where are we with asciidoc structure?
 * pleia2 itches to write stuff
<BiosElement> Ahh, that's a good question. >.>
 * pleia2 watches her energy meter drop significantly faster than she had anticipated
<pleia2> stupid cold!
<nigel_nb_> pleia2: wanna hit the bed?
<pleia2> yeah, I think that's where I'm headed :(
<pleia2> I'll be around all weekend though
<nigel_nb_> anyway, lp is down
<nigel_nb_> anything I do stays in my system
<nigel_nb_> asked in #launchpad, it was supposed to be up at 2345 UTC, but some delay.  So, there is no guarantee when it will be up
 * pleia2 nods
 * nigel_nb_ just noticed something great :)
<nigel_nb_> I've finished 5/9 sections so far
<pleia2> you rock :)
 * nigel_nb_ blushes
<nigel_nb> pleia2: if u're still here, I could use some help
<BiosElement> heh, I love how "William Chambers doesn't use Launchpad" and yet my branches are still listed :P Gotta love half working systems. >.>
<cprofitt> hey BiosElement long time no see dude...
<BiosElement> Heya cprofitt
<BiosElement> Aye, it's been ages. ^_^
<cprofitt> you going to have some free time in Mid-December to do some asciidoc with me?
<BiosElement> Speaking of AsciiDoc, I've got to figureout what's up with that. >.>
<pleia2> doctormo!
<pleia2> we need to talk about asciidoc soon :)
<doctormo> Hey pleia2, we do indeed
<doctormo> nigel is the obviouslly best persont o ask about writing, after myself.
<doctormo> And I wanted BiosElement to get busy with the scripts for building the resulting documents
<doctormo> But so far, no work has been done.
<pleia2> I spoke with bioselement last night, he said it was in your court
<doctormo> It is not
<pleia2> I am not interested in scripts at this point, I want raw "how to do stuff"
<pleia2> waiting for scripts is killing us
<doctormo> Sure
<pleia2> *I* don't even know how this all works :)
<doctormo> Not these, these aren't important for writing
<pleia2> bios was concerned that we don't have asciidoc structure yet
<pleia2> so for writing we still just use odt?
<doctormo> They're just build scripts, and it's with BiosElement, i'm waiting on him to get those into some order. But enough of that.
<pleia2> ok, maybe you should touch base with him?
<doctormo> I think Bios isn't accepting the structure that's there already. He wants to keep reinventing it.
<doctormo> So it seems I need to.
<pleia2> I thought the structure was too complicated?
<pleia2> he wanted a simpler one
<doctormo> It's not possible.
<pleia2> ok - so we did decide upon a structure?
<doctormo> Aye, that would be good.
<pleia2> if we could get that documented it'd be great, a "this stuff goes here, this file is for this...."
<pleia2> maybe with pretty pictures :)
<doctormo> Yes, sorry for being absent, it's been busy with me visiting the UK, lots of family and such that need attention.
<pleia2> no problem :)
<pleia2> I just wanted to get some of this sorted before our meeting
<doctormo_> huh my computer cut out
<doctormo_> pleia2: if you responded I didn't get it
<pleia2> all I said was that I wanted to try and get the asciidoc stuff on track before our meeting
<pleia2> so we don't waste time and stall more saying "we need to do this stuff"
<doctormo_> pleia2: The problem is that we have say 100 units of work to do, and a capacity to only do about 10 units per week, unless people can be convinced to do more work, there isn't much choice.
<pleia2> so should we be telling people to write things in odt until we can sort out the asciidoc situation?
<pleia2> I'd help if I could, but I don't even understand the asciidoc format
<doctormo_> pleia2: We should be already (I thought that's what we were doing)
<doctormo_> pleia2: But don't forget, there is as much structure in odt as there is in anything
<pleia2> asciidoc has book directories and things that are confusing
<doctormo_> The problems I can see is how much we'll have to rewrite because we don't have odt templates.
<pleia2> I don't really understand how it works, or how to create things out of it
<doctormo_> pleia2: asciidoc it's self is fairly direct, you create a text file, you run a command on it, it creates a pdf.
<pleia2> ok, I'll have to look at it again, I thought there were more directories and files than that
<doctormo_> pleia2: There are, but that's not ascii doc's fault, that's mine.
<pleia2> hmm
<pleia2> alright, I'll take a look later http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-learning-board/ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk2/files/head:/maintain/commandline-basics/ is a good example?
<pleia2> this does seem reasonable
<pleia2> I think I was confused by earlier versions
<pleia2> do we have a document explaining the structure yet? If this is a good example I can write one for my own benefit, show it to you and you can confirm it's correct?
<pleia2> sorry for being such a pain :)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: ping
<nigel_nb> pleia2: up yet?
<pleia2> nigel_nb: yeah, but busy morning at work
<nigel_nb> oh
<pleia2> if you want me to review something just give me a link and I'll get to it when I have some time :)
<nigel_nb> just wanted to let you know, I've pushed up to revision 12
<nigel_nb> here's the branch https://code.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/ubuntu-learning-materials/bazaar-introduction
<nigel_nb> can u just do a review when you get time and ping/mail me?
<pleia2> sure
<pleia2> do you want technical testing too?
<nigel_nb> thanks :)
<nigel_nb> not really, I doubt if u can test it, since its not complete
<nigel_nb> but, do let me know if the format gives you trouble
<pleia2> ok :)
<pleia2> thanks nigel_nb
<nigel_nb> thanks to you too pleia2 :)
<nigel_nb> hope you're doing better today
<pleia2> thanks, I think I am a bit
<nigel_nb> great :)
<doctormo> nigel_nb: pong
<nigel_nb> doctormo: oh great :)
<nigel_nb> just wanted to tell I you I pushed to rev 12
<nigel_nb> just 3 more sections to go
<pleia2> \o/
<doctormo> pleia2: Reviewing nigel_nb's branch will also give you a good example
<pleia2> doctormo: ok, great
<pleia2> thanks :)
<ZachK_> hey pleia2
<pleia2> I'll try to have this done by our meeting time on sunday
<pleia2> hey ZachK_ :)
<nigel_nb> doctormo: doing okay?
<ZachK_> pleia2: any assistance give I can?
<pleia2> ZachK_: same as before, you can link up to good existing documentation in the wiki
<ZachK_> cool
<doctormo> nigel_nb: One second
<nigel_nb> okay
<doctormo> nigel_nb: It looks great, I like the ssh key description
<nigel_nb> doctormo: talsemgeest helped me with that one
<nigel_nb> took a lot of trouble formatting it properly
<doctormo> nigel_nb: I see, double cudos for getting help when required.
<nigel_nb> well, lyz (I dont wanna ping her) went to bed coz she was sick, so had to find someone :P
<nigel_nb> doctormo: I'm off to work then, catch you on meeting day
<nigel_nb> or 2morrow
<FFEMTcJ> mornin
<doctormo> hey FFEMTcJ
<FFEMTcJ> whats up doc?
<FFEMTcJ> not that you have EVER heard that before
<doctormo> FFEMTcJ: No never ;-)
<nigel_nb> FFEMTcJ: he probably hasn't seen bugs bunny :P
<nigel_nb> doctormo: have you?
<FFEMTcJ> hehe
<doctormo> nigel_nb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUYZYJ7XueI
<nigel_nb> reminds me of the good old days
<nigel_nb> when i was 6 and all I did was cartoon network
<nigel_nb> aw, the music itself its nostalgic
<doctormo> Oh Mur-dur!
<FFEMTcJ> 29
<FFEMTcJ> uggh
<FFEMTcJ> 29
<FFEMTcJ> wtf
 * pleia2 offers FFEMTcJ a handful of /s, and the swear jar
<FFEMTcJ> ty
<FFEMTcJ> after 3 years, still not used to the lappy keyboard
<FFEMTcJ> lol
<ZachK_> wb ubuntulog
<doctormo> hey BiosElement, we should talk
<BiosElement> Hey doctormo, what's up?
<mhall119|work> sounds serious
<doctormo> hey mhall119|worknot really, just clarifying what structures are being promoted and taught.'
<mhall119|work> okay
<mhall119|work> cause that's how you start the "grandma died" conversation
<doctormo> mhall119|work: we should talk
<doctormo> mhall119|work: didyou know that peanuts are really beans?
<mhall119|work> they're legumes
<doctormo> Same thing
<mhall119|work> legumes are the parent class of both beans and peanuts, according to wikipedia
<mhall119|work> and wikipedia is never wrong
<mhall119|work> at least, that's what I read on wikipedia
 * mhall119|work just had the best idea for spam chain email
<mhall119|work> I'm going to start an email rumor that going to snopes.com will infect your computer with a virus.
<mhall119|work> who are you going to use to check if that's true or rumor?
<_marx_> beautiful
#ubuntu-learning 2009-12-05
<doctormo> BiosElement: Hey there
<doctormo> BiosElement: I've looked over your branch, shall we talk?
<pleia2> I made a pretty picture!
<pleia2> BiosElement: you're welcome to share with doctormo
<doctormo> pleia2: Hey, my connection is spotty, can you read this?
<pleia2> doctormo: yeah
<doctormo> pleia2: Great, so you made a picture?
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/ul/asciidocs.txt
<pleia2> compares current two asciidoc proposals
<BiosElement> Ahh, hey there doctormo. Didn't notice you come in
<doctormo> pleia2: The first is doctormo's, nigel is only working off my example.
<pleia2> oh yeah
<doctormo> (don't want to drag him in unless he wants to)
<BiosElement> We were more refering to just examples of the course.
 * pleia2 fixes
<doctormo> Ah ok,
<BiosElement> pleia2: Fix supplime while you're at it pretty please >.>
<pleia2> but the word is too long!
<pleia2> okok :)
<doctormo> BiosElement: So I get the view that in your example we have /$CLASS/content.txt
<BiosElement> haha, I know it is.
<BiosElement> doctormo: We have Category/$CLASS/content.txt yes
 * pleia2 fixed
<BiosElement> Just like your format does
<doctormo> BiosElement: And in mine we have /$SECTION/$CLASS/sections/$X/...
<BiosElement> Aye.
<doctormo> BiosElement: Your branch I just looked at didn't have sections (categories)
<doctormo> So I guess the main point to talk about
<BiosElement> doctormo: True. It was added as a recent suggestion by pleia2.
<doctormo> is why I think the juxterposition of the section content is required
<BiosElement> Sounds right.
<doctormo> Basically we have a view that says that the content we serve to users who are learning by themselves is different from the content that is lead by the teachers.
<doctormo> I believe that by splitting up each section into 4 parts, we can use auto generated content.txt files to compile them into the 2 or 3 flavours which will serve each of these targets.
<doctormo> Without having to rewrite every course for online, offline and teacher lead sessions.
<doctormo> (which is the problem dinda has, and why she's not keen on being involved any more)
<BiosElement> I think the purpose of my content/supplemental folders have confused you. They're not meant to be re-writing the entire course, just the supplemental "book" will have more information for teachers. for example, what to demo, tips on explaining it, faq's and so forth. THings that may not be very useful to someone learning on their own.
<doctormo> I don't want to write books.
<BiosElement> "book" for lack of a better term.
<doctormo> document?
<BiosElement> Aye, document.
<doctormo> The problem with this view is that it assumes that the _form_ the student content takes is the same regardless of target, it assumes that only supplimental teacher information is required.
<doctormo> I don't believe that's the case.
<BiosElement> Not sure I entirely follow you. I gather you mean making different 'flavors' of the document. It seems a little overly complex but then again I don't understand what gain there would be.
<cprofitt> doctormo -- pedagogy is different for the mediums.
<doctormo> cprofitt: So I'm lead to believe, text, way it's written, even the kinds of words used.
<cprofitt> I also agree with BiosElement that we need to have a 'teachers guide' in addition to any 'student' material for teacher lead courses
<doctormo> cprofitt: That's agreeing with me
<cprofitt> asynchronous and synchronous learning also requires different strategies
<BiosElement> cprofitt: Well that is quite true. But I disagree that it's needed. There is no reason a teacher cannot effectively teach from a document aimed at someone learning themselves. Heck, schools do it all the time. Not to say that it's the best example. Again my point may be wrong but I don't seem to be alone in sharing it.
<cprofitt> BiosElement: actually the schools I work in do not... there is always a teachers manual unless the teacher developed the curriculum themselves
<doctormo> BiosElement: I disagree, I've taught classes and while I'm not an experenced teacher, it's easier to teach along a lesson plan, than a book.
<BiosElement> cprofitt: Teachers manual, yes. But even then not always.
<BiosElement> Ok...perhaps I've confused you...the format I'm working on does have a teacher doc...
<BiosElement> And it's had one from day one.
<doctormo> BiosElement: I know, I just don't think it buds at the right place, it forces forking at really low levels, reuse of sections will be hard, even with different descriptive texts.
<BiosElement> But wouldn't it be useful to have a teacher doc with "teachers notes" along with the "students document"? Because that's not a problem with either format. I don't see why "reuse" would be difficult.
<cprofitt> BiosElement: I do not know ascii doc well enough but I would think having both would be a good thing
<BiosElement> cprofitt: It's easily possible.
<doctormo> BiosElement: Aye, but in my design the course writer is forced to consider writing notes for every section, when new sections are added, the teachers doc can not be forgotten. In a system where the teachers doc is very seperate, it'll cause them to get out of sync.
<pleia2> doctormo: are you seeing this as a workflow issue?
<pleia2> having to change to a different directory to put in your teachers doc too, easy to forget...
<BiosElement> Another arguement could be that the main document shouldn't be overly relient on the teachers docs. Note that this is not to say they should be neglected. Another thought is that I don't think it would always be wise to write the docs at the same time regardless. And even if someone wanted too, would it be too hard to have two folders open? >.>
<doctormo> pleia2: I can't tell if your being critical of structure 2 or misunderstanding structure 1.
<pleia2> doctormo: I am misunderstanding all of this, apparently :)
<BiosElement> pleia2: I think we're all misunderstanding things today >.>
<pleia2> I was being critical of structure 2 though
<doctormo> BiosElement: What I'm trying to breed is a sense that each section in a class-subject is treated as it's own whole little part, modular, put together they can form a class.
<pleia2> (sorry BiosElement)
<doctormo> This means that a writer can go in, write or rewrite one tiny section and not have to worry about the rest of the course/class/etc
<pleia2> also means they can bzr checkout just that tiny bit
<pleia2> no worries about conflict if someone is working on 04/ and you're working on 07/
<pleia2> right?
<doctormo> pleia2: correct,
<doctormo> pleia2: It means that merging is less of a problem
<BiosElement> doctormo: While I strongly agree that keeping things modular is good, I think it's a little much to focus on it so much. I don't see a huge need to mix/match when for the most part only the very basics will be shared between courses. Although again I note that I may be mistaken.
<BiosElement> And as for merging...how is folder 04 different then sec04.txt >.< For that at least, it's neutral ground.
<doctormo> BiosElement: Agreed
<pleia2> BiosElement: well you'd have examples/sec04.txt and content/section04.txt
<pleia2> you can't just check out content/04/
<pleia2> I mean, in yours
<BiosElement> pleia2: bazaar shouldn't care either way. And why would you want to...It seems kinda pointless.
<pleia2> BiosElement: for the leadership document, for example, I could see members of the community running that only checking out the chapters they're assigned to
<pleia2> rather than the whole /$SECTION/$CLASS/
<BiosElement> Um...perhaps I've missed something but why would be assign people chapters? And regardless, you couldn't test compiles very well without the rest of the chapters.
<pleia2> not every course has to be written by one person
<doctormo> pleia2: The best way to map it is that in structure 1 you have $section/$class/sections/$x/description.txt and in structure 2 you have $section/$class/description/$x.txt
<doctormo> I could remove the sections directory from structure 1 and leave only the sort of the data as the remaining issue.
<BiosElement> pleia2: Of course not
<pleia2> BiosElement: so that's why different people would work on different chapters
<pleia2> my brain hurts :)
<BiosElement> It's important people test it before uploading. But if that wasn't important I would admit there was an advantage.
<pleia2> and I don't think I'm helping here, can I leave it to you two to hash this out?
<BiosElement> Sure, get feeling better pleia2.
<pleia2> I don't care which we end up with, as long as it's documented :)
<doctormo> pleia2: I think your helping :-)
<BiosElement> haha, Well you are helping but you gotta get feeling better to help later >.>
<doctormo> pleia2: Your sick?
<pleia2> doctormo: yeah, terrible cold, now on antibiotics which are destroying my stomach
<pleia2> it's been a terrible week!
 * pleia2 is very glad she works from home
<pleia2> going to go relax a bit, I'm glad this discussion is happening, thanks guys :)
 * pleia2 hugs all around!
 * doctormo hugs pleia2
 * BiosElement hugs pleia2 also
<doctormo> BiosElement: OK, how does this sound, I scrap the sections directory, move all $x dirs into the $class dir, remove all the parent asciidocs and replace them with auto generating files upon build.
<doctormo> It'll reduce the number of files to edit, simplify it all round and the scripts should be trival.
<doctormo> I'll keep the presentations dir, we'll sort that out later.
<doctormo> resources dir just contains any files that aren't built, just copied in, things like example script files, pdfs that we didn't make etc.
<BiosElement> It sounds good, but here's a question: would it be easier just to dump the supplemental folders from my layout and do the numbered section folders inside content? Just thinking it migh be less work
<BiosElement> Because overall I do like that style, as long as sections are not micro-sized. >.>
<doctormo> You end up with the same thing, same work, the only difference is that you end up with the join at a slightly higher pivit which can be used better for scripting and for modular control.
<doctormo> The other thing to consider, is that what ever ideas you try out in your branch, I'll be applying them to trunk, think about how to modify trunk to apply your ideas, not just dropping it.
<BiosElement> dropping what? trunk? Of course not. >.< Everything can be ported over easily enough
<doctormo> Other than that, we're talking about bringing them into the same structure from two different angles.
<doctormo> BiosElement: no porting, modification of existing trunk, not wiping out directories and porting your branch into it, that's exactly the same.
<doctormo> So intructions to modify existing stuff, a) do this, b) move that c) etc.
<BiosElement> Ahh, I think I understand. haha. Well I just made a final commit "backup" per-say. so I'm going to start reformatting my course template now. I'll then toss it over to you and see what changes need made.
<BiosElement> I'm the one who pushed for it anyway, so I'm more then happy to do the work. haha
<doctormo> Aye aye, well at least I'm confident that all this talk is producing real results :-)
<BiosElement> It is. We just have somewhat different styles. haha
<doctormo> BiosElement: That's good, we're able to combine them :-D
<BiosElement> haha, quite true
<doctormo> I have to sleep now, got a train to cach in the morning
<BiosElement> Aight, Night doctormo
<doctormo> But I'll work on build-get scripts on the train and tomorrow, try and get something interesting.
<BiosElement> haha, Sounds good
<cprofitt> sorry -- I got distracted guys
<BiosElement> cprofitt: Not a problem.
<BiosElement> I just pushed the recent update, based on the discussion, to launchpad. As soon as it's done updating I'll post the link.
<cprofitt> I read back... it does sound like we made progress...
<BiosElement> cprofitt doctormo pleia2: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~williamchambers/ubuntu-learning-materials/asciidoc_format-v2/revision/14
<BiosElement> We did.
<cprofitt> I am not very familiar with Bzr or Asciidoc so I can't truly appreciate the technical details.
<cprofitt> Python... that will help
<cprofitt> does asciidoc allow for 'sections' in the text that can be 'excluded' or 'included' in producing the output based on arguments?
<cprofitt> the bzr is looking rather self-explanatory
<doctormo> cprofitt: that's good, it means it's working.
<doctormo> BiosElement: Do you know if sections can be included or exluded? atm I'm going to do this via scripting of the combination of each part into the whole document.
<BiosElement> cprofitt doctormo: Yes
<BiosElement> In fact I'm including them manually from the core/content.txt file
<BiosElement> doctormo: One thing to note with the include statement is you MUST have a blank line between each include statement.
<doctormo> BiosElement: If you can show me how to pull that off, email the mailing list with an example or something, then i can work that mechanism in.
<BiosElement> doctormo: It already exists.http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ewilliamchambers/ubuntu-learning-materials/asciidoc_format-v2/annotate/head%3A/Contributing/UCLP/content.txt
<BiosElement> It shouldn't be hard to scriptit.
<cprofitt> so we can have a document -- single -- with both teacher notes and student content
<doctormo> BiosElement: Wait, the ability to include or exclude sections is using the "include" statement, same as I'm already doing?
<cprofitt> by splitting them in to sections we can control what is 'compiled' in to the 'output'?
<doctormo> cprofitt: We should end up with one publication which includes everything all in one, and another with it spread out between files.
<BiosElement> doctormo: Aye. It's kinda a workaround but I've just been manually including them. asciidoc by default only works one file at a time.
<cprofitt> and you have a single text file that controls that?
<doctormo> BiosElement: Then I'm already using the best way to do this :-) good good.
<cprofitt> sounds like a working plan
<doctormo> cprofitt: That single file would basically be generated by scripts from a template.
<BiosElement> cprofitt: Yes
<doctormo> At build time
<BiosElement> doctormo: Whenever you get a chance lookover the edit I did to the new class template too. I doubt I got all the changes made the first time around. But I've gotta get going and you need sleep >.<
<doctormo> Yes, good, email me!
<nigel_nb> hello guys
<b_wilson> nigel_nb: 'lo
<nigel_nb> pleia2: are you around?
<nigel_nb> hello everyone
<nigel_nb> pleia2: did u get time to review my branch?
<pleia2> nigel_nb: yeah, no tech review so far though
<pleia2> doctormo and bioselement are discussing format some
<nigel_nb> writing style and language?
<nigel_nb> I just did a guesswork of a format
<nigel_nb> since I'm the official guinea pig :P, I hope they straight it out with this branch
<nigel_nb> I checked my logs, doctormo told me to leave the format alone since it has to be straightened out when they convert this branch
<pleia2> seems fine, but I think there are too many sections
<pleia2> I think some of the basic bzr stuff could all be put into one section, instead of split up so much since they can't really stand alone
<nigel_nb> but the practical and demonstration might be a bit too long
<nigel_nb> I sorta took an example from doctormo's command-line basics
<nigel_nb> most of it is practical based, one step at a time
<nigel_nb> pleia2: btw, I'm going to merge intro to launchpad and working with launchpad into one section
<nigel_nb> so it'll be down to 8
 * pleia2 nods
<nigel_nb> i did the intro
<nigel_nb> and didn't find anything to put in working :P
<nigel_nb> I'll try to finish everything before the meeting
<nigel_nb> so, it will give sometime to review everytinh
<pleia2> great :)
<nigel_nb> I'm off 2morrow nite
<nigel_nb> so, my social life on sunday night will be on IRC
<pleia2> oh! I mailed your card today
<pleia2> hopefully it'll get there :)
<nigel_nb> oh
<nigel_nb> I should get around to doing it on monday
<nigel_nb> pleia2: just curious, how many cards did u send out?
<pleia2> nigel_nb: probably about 35
<pleia2> 6 international
<nigel_nb> wow!
<pleia2> that's pretty normal :)
<nigel_nb> pleia2: just saw the logs of the discussion, do u have any idea what was decided on format?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: ping
<doctormo> nigel_nb: pong
<nigel_nb> just saw logs from last night
<nigel_nb> what did u guys decide about format?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: It's still very close to what you have, but sections are moved into parent folder.
<nigel_nb> no sub folder for sections
<nigel_nb> and each file gets numbered indendently?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Each file still goes in a directory number
<nigel_nb> i'm still confused
<doctormo> so instead of sections/01/description.txt it's just 01/description.txt
<nigel_nb> thats messy
<doctormo> nigel_nb: Not really, some of the other files are being removed and will be auto generated instead.
<nigel_nb> like?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: All the root text files, class.txt etc
<nigel_nb> whoa
<nigel_nb> how does that happen?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: scripts
<nigel_nb> they're ready?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: I worked on them all day
<doctormo> but no, I got sick
<nigel_nb> oh no!
<nigel_nb> you too
<nigel_nb> doctormo: do we guys get to see the scripts to test our modules?
<doctormo> nigel_nb: yes
<nigel_nb> ooooo
<nigel_nb> when?
<doctormo> pushing now
<doctormo> pushed rev 12 in trunk, check it out
<nigel_nb> aw heck
<nigel_nb> at work
<nigel_nb> have to check it out from lp directly
<doctormo> in your own time
<nigel_nb> I wanna see it now! ;)
<nigel_nb> otherwise, i can see it only tonight
<nigel_nb> thats like 12 hours away
<doctormo> lol, you know how to do it in "your own time" ;-)
<nigel_nb> hehe
<nigel_nb> doctormo: the builder folder?
<nigel_nb> doctormo: looking good, I'll explore tonight
<nigel_nb> you'll need to update me on what all changes I have to make
#ubuntu-learning 2009-12-06
<nigel_nb> hello
<nigel_nb> pleia2: I see that you're feeling better :)
<pleia2> nigel_nb: getting there :)
 * pleia2 knocks on wood
<nigel_nb> good to know, get kicking soon :)
<pleia2> thanks :)
<FFEMTcJ> mornin
<nigel_nb_> mornin FFEMTcJ :)
<FFEMTcJ> hey nigel_nb_
<Pendulum> hi FFEMTcJ
<FFEMTcJ> hey there Pendulum !
<pleia2> oh hey folks
<pleia2> I think we're going to settle upon Jan 23rd for User Day
<pleia2> 16th seems too soon
<pleia2> so either 23rd or 30th
<pleia2> FFEMTcJ: I think you had a problem work-wise with 23rd?
<Pendulum> either one works for me
<FFEMTcJ> I'd  have to take the day off
<FFEMTcJ> but i can do that
<pleia2> ok
<nigel_nb_> When are we doing it? I mean time...
<FFEMTcJ> 30th i dont work
<pleia2> nigel_nb_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays
<pleia2> I don't think we've solidly settled upon times though
<pleia2> shoulds soon
<nigel_nb_> those times look okay for me
<nigel_nb_> and my tz too :)
<nigel_nb_> I'll spread the word on my loco too
<FFEMTcJ> im fine with those times
<pleia2> ok, great :)
<pleia2> what is our strategy for finding instructors? do we have one? :)
<FFEMTcJ> I'm asking in my loco..
<pleia2> some beginners team folks volunteered, but never added themselves to the possible instructors page
<FFEMTcJ> Ask other instructors who have tought in the past?
<pleia2> ok
<nigel_nb_> pleia2: do want me to check with BT guys?
<pleia2> nigel_nb_: I'm emailing the list now
<nigel_nb_> ah, great :)
<nigel_nb_> lemme look up the meeting and see who all volunteered, I'll try to track them on IRC
<pleia2> I'm going to go ahead and set the time and dates in stone now unless I hear any objections in the next 5 minutes ;)
<FFEMTcJ> which day?
<pleia2> Jan 23rd
<FFEMTcJ> ok
<pleia2> if it is actually a problem for work, please say so :)
<pleia2> the 30th is fine too
<FFEMTcJ> either way
<FFEMTcJ> just do 23rd and ill take the day off
<_marx_> either good for me too
<FFEMTcJ> editing the learning page to fix broken link
 * _marx_ way behind on this...getting caught up
<FFEMTcJ> didnt miss much
<FFEMTcJ> something needs to be done about the wiki
 * pleia2 fixes up UserDaysTeam some
<FFEMTcJ> uggh
<pleia2> what's wrong?
<nigel_nb_> anyone besides Hellow and forestpixie volunteered from BT?
<FFEMTcJ> waiting on the wiki
<nigel_nb_> pleia2: that was fast :)
<FFEMTcJ> not too much on the meeting agenda tonite
<nigel_nb_> today's meeting is about getting everyone up-to-date
<nigel_nb_> coupla changes in the asciidoc formatting which even I'm not clear
 * pleia2 adds asciidoc note to agenda
<nigel_nb_> ah, good that I mentioned it then :0
<nigel_nb_> oh, BTW, do we have a "How to lead IRC classroom sessions"?
<pleia2> nigel_nb_: only https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom/Guidelines
<nigel_nb_> we could do with a class for that one day
<nigel_nb_> probably on our moodle
<nigel_nb_> part of the "how to teach Ubuntu"?
<pleia2> yeah, something should be written for that
<pleia2> probably not for a User Day though :)
<nigel_nb_> i mean, I'd like to lead, but I have no clue how, so this time I'm listening and helping with everything else
<pleia2> nigel_nb_: did you attend any of the open week sessions?
<pleia2> this is pretty much the same thing
<nigel_nb_> it was at a bad time
<nigel_nb_> I only read the logs
<pleia2> the logs give you a pretty good idea as to how it's done
<pleia2> you get an instructor, they blabber on about the topic for a while, take questions
<nigel_nb_> you keep the typed stuff ready?
<pleia2> some do
<pleia2> I did, wrote up everything beforehand and pasted it into channel during the session, one line at a time
<nigel_nb_> beats typing
<pleia2> but some people just do it on the fly
<FFEMTcJ> that was quick
<nigel_nb_> I'll just wait till end of dec and take any timeslot which needs filling with a topic that needs teaching
 * pleia2 is on her game this morning :)
<FFEMTcJ> i guess
<FFEMTcJ> im not..
<nigel_nb_> "the legend" is back :P
<FFEMTcJ> im not feeling right.. dunno why
<FFEMTcJ> pleia2: is making my phone go nuts
<nigel_nb_> pleia2: got in touch with forestpixie
<pleia2> nigel_nb_: yeah, I saw
<pleia2> I am starting to worry that the BT participation will be very low, which is ashame
<nigel_nb_> lemme wake the sleeping dogs
<nigel_nb_> or whatever the saying is
<pleia2> :)
<nigel_nb_> pleia2: User Days is part of UCLP?
<pleia2> nigel_nb_: we're helping it :)
<nigel_nb_> ah, then lets get those people in here
<nigel_nb_> those 5 mins are up, you confirming dates and times?
<pleia2> yep, confirmed
<nigel_nb_> lemme mail my loco
<pleia2> Jan 23rd from 12:00-22:00 UTC
<FFEMTcJ> pleia2: i got a couple of testimonials
<nigel_nb_> pleia2: I could use some help with drafting the mail, I'm not sure how to word it
<Pendulum> pleia2: I can send an e-mail to the UW mailing list looking for instructors
<pleia2> ack
<pleia2> FFEMTcJ: cool :)
<pleia2> nigel_nb_: you can base some of it on the original email I sent to BT: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-beginners/2009-November/000100.html
<pleia2> Pendulum: that'd be great!
<nigel_nb_> thanks, lookin
<nigel_nb_> how are we going to do the "Advertise the day to the public "?
<pleia2> we haven't gotten that far yet :)
<pleia2> but blogs, twitter, mailing lists, fridge
<nigel_nb_> hehe
<pleia2> same way UbuntuOpenWeek does
<nigel_nb_> shouldn't I first announce and then ask for volunteers?
<FFEMTcJ> sweet.. just got an instructor, and now have a class pending wife's approval
<nigel_nb_> w00t FFEMTcJ
<nigel_nb_> we'll have logs of the user days right?
<nigel_nb_> in case someone misses a session
<nigel_nb_> i mean, the session drags from 1730 to 0330 in my tz
<nigel_nb_> so someone is bound to miss the last parts
<nigel_nb_> pleia2: a suggestion about the formats discussion that happened yday
<FFEMTcJ> yes
<nigel_nb_> good, I need to assure my loco
<FFEMTcJ> yes, re: logs
<nigel_nb_> I know, I guessed
<_marx_> time slots will be refined later?
<EsatYuce> hi
<FFEMTcJ> hi
<EsatYuce> FFEMTcJ,  how are u
<FFEMTcJ> good.. yourself?
<EsatYuce> me too
<EsatYuce> what about this Ubuntu?
<TheErk> Hola
<EsatYuce> hi
<TheErk> How goes?
<EsatYuce> so so
<EsatYuce> your?
<FFEMTcJ> What about Ubuntu?
<TheErk> I am moderately neato
<EsatYuce> what is neato?
<TheErk> Neato is an ancient Sumarian word.  It means better than average but not fantastic.
<pleia2> _marx_: yeah, time slots will be sorted later, I just wanted to get an idea of when people were available first thing, so we can shuffle as needed
<pleia2> _marx_: and thanks for adding yourself :)
<_marx_> np pleia2 I'm just looking at what doctormo has worked up; off for a bit of r-n-r now
<BiosElement> Hey pleia2 know anyone who'd care to write a guide for generating SSH keys and uploading them to launchpad? I'd write it but I'm pretty bad with SSH Keys. >.>
<FFEMTcJ> BiosElement: there already is one.. on launchpad
<nigel_nb_> BiosElement: I've written it alreaday
<BiosElement> FFEMTcJ: nigel_nb_Great to hear then
<pleia2> nigel_nb_: link to the document in the branch?
<nigel_nb_> getting it
<nigel_nb_> why am I getting an internal server error when I try to see the contents of my branch....
<BiosElement> nigel_nb_: Probably because LP borked itself >.>
<nigel_nb_> a few refreshes did the trick
<nigel_nb_> lemme tell the good folks at launchpad about it though
<nigel_nb_> okay, as per the guys in #launchpad, loggerhead, the BZR web interface is broken
<pleia2> :(
<nigel_nb_> which means, you'll have to pull my branch and look inside it
<nigel_nb_> bzr branch lp:~nigelbabu/ubuntu-learning-materials/bazaar-introduction
<nigel_nb_> w00t, one more volunteer
<nigel_nb_> Hellow will be leading a sesion
<pleia2> :)
<nigel_nb_> BiosElement: were u able to see that ssh document?
<BiosElement> nigel_nb_: I found LP's SSH guide. Worked nicely enough.
<nigel_nb_> great :)
<BiosElement> Aye. ^_^
<EsatYuce> the button of the Vodafone site doesnt run. WHY?
<BiosElement> Um....what? >.>
<nigel_nb_> EsatYuce: probably flash
<EsatYuce> no
<nigel_nb_> javascript then?
<EsatYuce> yes
<EsatYuce> you are right
<nigel_nb_> site?
<EsatYuce> yes
<EsatYuce> Vodafone
<nigel_nb_> uk one?
<EsatYuce> for example: i want to send a SMS, i typed
<EsatYuce> no in Turkey
<pleia2> EsatYuce: you might want to drop by #ubuntu-beginners-help for Ubuntu questions :)
<EsatYuce> i typed my message, then i click "Send" button, but it doesnt run
<nigel_nb_> EsatYuce: switch over to #ubuntu-beginners-help ,not the right place here
 * pleia2 isn't sure what these questions are, though
<EsatYuce> pleia2,  thanks, i signed in it now
<nigel_nb_> pleia2: trouble with FF and javascript
<pleia2> ah
<nigel_nb_> ok, LP is back up :)
<nigel_nb_> pleia2: one more person :)
<FFEMTcJ> pleia2: fwiw, im at work today (and tomorrow) so if I dont make the meeting, im on a call..
<pleia2> FFEMTcJ: gotcha
<FFEMTcJ> hopefully ill be here tomorrow for the membership meeting, since yall should actually get to me
 * pleia2 almost forgot that was tomorrow
#ubuntu-learning 2010-12-11
<pumba_> hello,
<pumba_> is any expert available?
<pumba_> to help me step by step with a little thing?
<nigelb> If you're looking for support with something wrong with Ubuntu, #ubuntu is the place to be.
<nigelb> Alternatively, you could try #ubuntu-beginners
#ubuntu-learning 2011-12-11
<petersdf> I am a newbe both to Ubuntu and Chat BUT I need Help installing drivers
<petersdf> I have a wireless RaLink RT2870 with the linux drivers downloaded to my desktop. can you help me in installing these drivers ?
<petersdf> where to put them and permissions etc.
#ubuntu-learning 2016-12-06
<anom> anyone here?
