#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-12
<PseudoPlacebo> Be right back. Reboot.
<troy_s> greetz mad
<Madpilot> hi
<klepas> msikma: ping
<msikma> Hi klepas
<klepas> just read through the ml
<klepas> =S
<lapo> hi
<bersace> Hello guys !
<klepas> moin
<msikma> What's up everybody?
<troy_s> greetz all.
<troy_s> I obtained access to the art.ubuntu.com site.  Will work on keeping you posted once my work ends today.
<troy_s> Peace.
<jsgotangco> msikma: balls of steel, that email heh, good job =)
<neodreams> sounds good ;)
<bersace> troy_s: so, here we go ?
<lapo> hi
<neodreams> hi :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-13
<plukazz> heloooooo
<plukazz> hi all
<PseudoPlacebo> Be back in a little bit.
<troy_s> greetz mad
<Madpilot> hi troy_s
<troy_s> how you doing mad?
<Madpilot> good
<Madpilot> busy
<troy_s> busy with what?
<Madpilot> two jobs & attempting to have a life, mostly :)
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> no kidding
<lapo> hi
<klepas> lots of new faces in here as of late
<klepas> welcome
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> nice news then!
<klepas> it is good too see more people interested in following ubuntu-artwork
<klepas> more creative spirit hopefully :)
<PseudoPlacebo> Alright I'm off to Arizona, see ya'll later.
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-14
<lapo> hi
<troy_s> bersace you still here brother?
<bersace> troy_s: yep !
<troy_s> how you doing ?
<bersace> fine and you ? how are you ?
<bersace> still nothing in the wiki front ?
<troy_s> sorry bersace, reading mail log
<troy_s> egads really busy
<troy_s> frank is such a great fellow to have on the team
<troy_s> um yeah... i would issue a "FINAL CALL" tonite from you to the list, then attack it tomorrow
<troy_s> Let everyone know that they need to proof it.
<troy_s> that is an amazing bit of work done by neil!
<bersace> troy_s: sent
<troy_s> so we will need probably some sort of update on what you have arrived at as well...
<troy_s> my only thought is to go with the simple tree structure off root, and head downwards into complexity IF we need to.
<bersace> wouldn't it be nice the wallpaper UI shows only the wallpaper in the screen resolution
<troy_s> also, i would say that our documents section is going to need to be helpful to our new artists... the Tools section is sort of a starting point, but links for wacom graphics tablets, irc howto, etc would all be extremely useful.
<troy_s> ???
<troy_s> sorry, not following you?  instead of a thumbnail?
<bersace> I mean building a .desktop containing links to 4:3, 5:4 and 16:10 version of the wallpaper, but the UI show only the right ratio available
<bersace> or the ratio that fit mostly with the screen
<bersace> that was just off topic
<bersace> (though of the night)
<bersace> :)
<bersace> about the wiki
<bersace> I think that tool should be mostly about software : The Gimp, Inkscape, ImageMagick, etc.
<bersace> but we can also provide tool for thumbnailing like the one i used to make DapperHuman review
<troy_s> eek!
<troy_s> i am no bdfl!!!!
<troy_s> uggh.
<troy_s> oh well.
<bersace> a page Tools/Review would gather all you need to build a complete review of a theme
<bersace> ;)
<adamant1988> hello
<bersace> including Qemu, ago-preview, etc.
<bersace> adamant1988: hello
<troy_s> i think we also need to at least make sure that our 'getting involved' has many more helpful tools and is explicity
<troy_s> some people who can contribute pencil scans might have NO idea how to irc, wiki/ etc.
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> greetings adamant, welcome.
<bersace> yep
<bersace> you're right
<troy_s> ok must shower.
<troy_s> back in a few.
<bersace> lol
<adamant1988> Can anyone take a look at this wallpaper I did?
<adamant1988> http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1482/ubuntuwallpapertest7it.jpg
<adamant1988> I was trying to do something a bit softer and using the human theme compatible colors...
<troy_s> nice work adamant.
<troy_s> i think you need to get a SVG or something for the logo though
<troy_s> it is rasterized all to hell.
<troy_s> which isn't your fault, just the res of the original logo that you tapped from.
<bersace> troy_s: waterproof laptop ?
<bersace> ;P
<troy_s> laf no...
<adamant1988> =\ yeah I tried to blur the logo to cover that up
<troy_s> printing some itinerary stuffs.
<adamant1988> Ok, so fix the logo, anything else that it needs?
<troy_s> adamant:  svg or res it up before you try the wallpaper... i don't know if there are any svg thigns?
<bersace> i think that i lake overall finition, especially top left and bottom right corner
<bersace> the logo is not well blend with the rest of the picture
<troy_s> bersace
<troy_s> i got access to art.ubuntu.com
<bersace> but i like the background of this background :)
<troy_s> i am hoping you can help out with it.
<adamant1988> I can blend it bettter, but I don't want to alter it from it's original state...
<troy_s> haven't had a chance to look into it too far, just ssh access etc.
<troy_s> i will further chat with henrik regarding other potential cms.
<bersace> troy_s: nice !
<adamant1988> so really the biggest problem with the wallpaper is the logo?
<bersace> adamant1988: yes
<bersace> too visible
<bersace> remember the discretion of hoary wallpaper logo
<adamant1988> so make it more subtle as well... that'll be easy enough to do. I just didn't want to alter the logo too much.
<bersace> adamant1988: you should investigate to get more contrast between logo and background
<bersace> adamant1988: the deep yellow/orange "flame" hurt my eyse
<bersace> *eyes
<bersace> but really, that's a nice work.
<troy_s> bersace:  believe it or not, its a HECK of a lot of work trying to get all the damn info out of the community.
<troy_s> berasce:  there REALLY isn't much overarching info structure :)
<adamant1988> I've been out of the digital art circles for a while, that's the first thing I've made in months =\
<troy_s> adamant:  hopefully after paris, and some documenting, there will be a clear list
<troy_s> of todo's
<troy_s> and just about anyone should be able to pick up a bit
<troy_s> (think of it as a wedding registry :)  -- you can spend a little bit on the little requests, or larger on the large bits... )
<bersace> troy_s: should we rename Tasks as ToDo ?
<bersace> or Todo ?
<bersace> lol
<troy_s> bersace:  i kind of like tasks or assignments or such
<adamant1988> ok, so I think what I'm going to do is make the logo the 'light source'.
<adamant1988> and therefor the focal point.
<bersace> troy_s: Todo is more comprehensive
<adamant1988> oh could you guys look at something else I'm thinking about turning into a WP?
<troy_s> go to town admant.
<adamant1988> ^_^
<troy_s> bersace:  i hope to use the specification listing of launchpad
<troy_s> bersace:  to track the bits.
<bersace> troy_s: good idea
<troy_s> bersace:  but i have NO clue how that works just yet.
<troy_s> bersace:  if you could spend a few seconds if you get some looking into it, it would be greatly appreciated.
<adamant1988> http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5122/spacenotype6sc.png
<adamant1988> I'm not sure what to do with it to make it an ubuntu wp...
<bersace> troy_s: i will investigate launchpad as i can
<bersace> i'm not admin
<adamant1988> anything?
<troy_s> bersace:  you can create your own team
<troy_s> bersace: and test... it is mainly the specification thing that is tricky
<troy_s> bersace:  i registered a spec, but it won't notify our members etc...
<bersace> ok
<troy_s> like i said, it was even tricky setting up a poll :)
<troy_s> specs would be a valuable item thoughn.
<troy_s> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt_2fTutorials
<troy_s> Some good stuff there bersace...
<bersace> about specification
<bersace> it seems that we should write specification for package ubuntu-artwork, assigned to ubuntu-art
<bersace> i don't think that specification can replace a Todo wiki page
<lapo> hi
<troy_s> bersace
<troy_s> https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/BlueprintDocumentation
<troy_s> just got mailed that link from one of the art team  members... very helpful.
<klepas> i shall be using that list to create an agenda of sorts
<klepas> troy_s: are there any other items you would like to the list?
<klepas> the list being the agenda
<troy_s> i don't know klepas... very tough.
<troy_s> i suppose you could braindump a bit there... depending on who shows up.
<troy_s> the problem with our release cycle is that it is VERY short.
<troy_s> which means that we need a good set of targets that users can look forwards to regarding new art... simple things
<troy_s> as well as subtle more complex issues, such as some of the things that Frank and I have been discussing as per his document.
<troy_s> that list that Niel compiled is basically one of the tasks we had on the wiki to do a little legwork, which was very very impressive of him.
<troy_s> I think what COULD be accomplished at a meeting might be to organize those ideas into distinct areas for further filtering.
<troy_s> anyways... i am going to be late for work if my Ubuntu art habit continues here :)  take care ladies and gentlement.
<troy_s> Peace
<klepas> would you like to write the agenda?
<klepas> it would lift some work off my back... (i've got critical response works due for English in a few days =S)
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> i WISH
<klepas> i guess not then
<troy_s> i have a few critical responses involving a wife, a five and a half year old, paris, and a career that takes up a bunch of silly time
<troy_s> i just don't think i can make it in time klepas.
<klepas> fair enough
<troy_s> i'll see what happens in the few days ahead.
<troy_s> sorry
<klepas> but you can make it to the meeting?
<troy_s> i will try
<troy_s> this week is pretty chaotic
<klepas> Saturday June 17, 16:00 UTC, in #ubuntu-meeting
<troy_s> well... if you can hold it here i can at least get a log... not that it is all that important.
<troy_s> EEK
<troy_s> got to fly
<troy_s> i don't know if you know yet
<troy_s> but i recently obtained access to art.ubuntu.com
<klepas> are you a channel operator
<troy_s> i'll spill you the details as they get to be more useful.
<troy_s> negative.
<klepas> pity
<klepas> need to change this topic
<troy_s> chan ops sit with whoever gets there first
<klepas> to mention the meeting
<troy_s> you can change the topic
<troy_s> just change it... no permissions on it.
<klepas> i just tried... no luck
<klepas> i just tried
<troy_s> how very strange.
<troy_s> i altered it the other day
<troy_s> without op status.
<klepas> you try. :)
<klepas> mention the meeting
<klepas> Saturday June 17, 16:00 UTC, in #ubuntu-meeting
<troy_s> tried it.
<troy_s> the other day it worked fine though...
<troy_s> grr.
<klepas> ah well
<klepas> so... AUC
<klepas> what do you behold of it's content management technologies?
<jsgotangco> hmm are you going to paris troy_s?
<adamant1988> http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/4549/ubuntuwallpapertest5dn.jpg << what do you guys think?
<adamant1988> http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/8247/kubuntuwp6qk.jpg <<< this one sorry.
<klepas> jsgotangco: troy_s will be attending the paris summit, yet :)
<klepas> adamant1988: it's lovely
<klepas> i would recommend avoiding any bluring of te logos though
<klepas> make them crisp and sharp
<adamant1988> I didn't blur them =\
<adamant1988> I resized them and that was about it
<klepas> it can happen through scalling
<klepas> scalling :)
<klepas> or importing SVGs into The GIMP
<msikma> That looks really nice, adamant1988. I don't think that the "double" logo looks nice, though, and the colors of the logo seem to be strange. I also think that the colors are too deep.
<klepas> but otherwise, they are great
<msikma> A little too saturated, maybe. Especially with cyan, that's an easily encountered problem.
<klepas> consider making huge versions... us folks on laptops with widescreens like to have a filled, unstretched desktop wallpaper... and good ones are hard to come across :)
<msikma> I suggest making the image a little more neutral by finding a way to decrease saturation. Maybe overlaying it with a translucent color or gradient that evens the colors out a little.
<klepas> as for the double logo effect... it could be good if you use it as a sort of... perhaps ripply-effect
<msikma> Yeah, I always make my wallpapers in widescreen at a huge size (2x 1920x1200) so that I'm certain all resolutions will be provided for.
<klepas> would entail adding a few more of those (subdued) logo copies :)
<msikma> And at the same time that provides support for multiple monitors, now that I think about it... I wonder how that would look.
<klepas> msikma: what is your reso :)
<msikma> 1920x1200 at home, but I'm going to sell that laptop and get a new one sometime soon.
<msikma> I'm at work right now... let's see what my resolution is here
<klepas> i only have one machine. my third arm; the laptop :)
<msikma> 1680x1050
<adamant1988> I could do a ripple effect
<klepas> goes everwhere i go
<klepas> msikma: ditto on that last reso
<klepas> adamant1988: doesn't hurt to try :)
<msikma> Cool, klepas. I also have a laptop at home. I'm thinking on getting an iMac. I use one at work, and that monitor is just unequalled.
<klepas> hehe
<msikma> I haven't checked, but does Dapper run on Intel iMacs?
<klepas> i love my inspiron machine
<msikma> Hehe, I have an inspiron too :P
<klepas> the screen beats that of a mac even ;)
<klepas> msikma: not sure...
<klepas> what model Inspiron, btw?
<klepas> the 9000-series?
<msikma> Yeah, the 1920x1200 WUXGA screen I have in my laptop is really nice. Very bright and with very small pixel distance. I like this iMac monitor a lot, too. Mainly, just like that WUXGA screen, because it's so bright.
<msikma> 9100.
<klepas> i just got mine a month or two back
<klepas> Inspiron 6400, duo-core. :)
<msikma> Oh no\
* msikma checked the ubuntu main page
<msikma> Who the hell made that "Ubuntu 6.06 LTS with long term support" image??????
<klepas> 1680x1050 WSXGA truebright screen made me buy it
<msikma> Stretched type... that is the ULTIMATE form of amateurism.
<msikma> Okay, tonight I'm proposing a redesign of the site's main page.
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> the text image is quite horrendous
<msikma> Bah, they even made images (top of the page) composed of... upscaled rasterized versions of images.
<msikma> Upscaled images are also awfully amateuristic.
<klepas> the icons namely
<klepas> yea
<msikma> I wonder who made/okayed this design. :(
<klepas> heinrik said he was working on it
<klepas> but i doubt he would have let this pass...
<msikma> Hmm
<klepas> msikma: you contribute to the wikimedia projects too? :)
<msikma> Can't see any Intel Mac versions of Dapper yet
<msikma> Yep :)
<klepas> ditto
<msikma> I see you found my userpage
<klepas> pretty rad
<klepas> ;)
<msikma> Yeah, what's yours?
<klepas> and your picture
<klepas> that's rad
<msikma> hehe
<klepas> klepas
<msikma> thanks :))
<klepas> but it's fairly empty
<klepas> i've only really been fixing spelling mistakes and grammatical errors on wikipedia
<klepas> i wrote an article for wikinews
<msikma> That's nice. I started out with minor edits too, but then after a while I started liking editing too much. I think I wrote an article for wikinews too, a long time ago, but I can't seem to remember what it was about.
<klepas> :)
<klepas> i just have not had the time
<klepas> very frustrating
<klepas> college is annoying me and i'm not doing too well in one of my classes
<msikma> Wikinews is a nice news resource, but it's too bad that it uses a largely unmodified version of mediawiki. It would "work" much better, as a site, if it had the layout of a news site while retaining the wiki features.
<msikma> Brb..
<klepas> sure
<msikma> Sorry, gotta do some stuff at work, but I'll come by to chat in a while. And don't let college get to you! Or just do like I did and stop. :P I intend to go back to college someday, but just not right now.
<msikma> And if you have a portfolio site, I'd love to see it
<klepas> sure
<klepas> http://klepas.org
<klepas> under some revamp
<klepas> i'm intending to split my articles and more publishable content onto a subdomain and keep klepas.org separate for only personal things and artwork
<klepas> as for college... college here in down under is the step before university... so it's important and not something i can really screw up...
<klepas> got mathematics first line tomorrow...
<klepas> and it's past 00:20
<klepas> cheers
<cyanescent> hi I am hoping one of you can help me with the Launchpad Blueprint thing ?
<msikma>  Time to go home...
<cyanescent> anyone?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-15
<adamant1988> hi all
<troy_s> greetings all
<Madpilot> hi
<troy_s> Mad!
<troy_s> How you doing?  Sorry I was catching up on a plethora of mail.
<Madpilot> np, doing well. Messing with Inkscape
<troy_s> Good stuffs.
<troy_s> how is it going?
<troy_s> lots of good stuff happening for the artwork team.
<Madpilot> looks like it, I've been stupidly busy the last week and barely following email
<Madpilot> Inkscape "Trace Bitmap" coolness: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/B17-prop.svg
<Madpilot> destined for openclipart.org eventually :)
<troy_s> laf
<troy_s> yah ditto.
<troy_s> busy as hell... AND paris is rapidly approaching.
<troy_s> yo mad...
<troy_s> are you on launchpad?
<troy_s> That traced bitmap is pretty damn cool!
<troy_s> Amazing vert to SVG really... quite interesting for a technique.
<Madpilot> troy_s, I'm bburger on LP
<troy_s> are you on the ubuntu-art team?
<Madpilot> yes
<troy_s> ahhh yes of course you are.
<troy_s> can you check your mail?
<Madpilot> I just tweaked that whiteboard thing, actually
<troy_s> i just registered a specification to ubuntu-art to try and test the
<troy_s> cool.
<troy_s> !
<troy_s> so it went out?
<troy_s> How fecking cool is that?  Wow.  Who would have guessed.  laf.
<troy_s> Bloody handy feature.
<Madpilot> although it looks like there's no email notification of spec creation, just editing?
<Madpilot> I've got that chunk of LP documentation bookmarked to read over the weekend
<troy_s> well you have to assign someone
<troy_s> again, there just ISNT a central area for all this knowledge, so i am having to do a little legwork.
<Madpilot> yeah
<troy_s> thankfully neil and a few other folk shave started contributing.
<Madpilot> Launchpad needs a DocTeam :)
<troy_s> and the results are massive.
<troy_s> well i think docteam's plate is pretty damn full.
<troy_s> needless to say, for our purposes, we can kill two birds by documenting our individual progress in a centralized wiki page for all artwork team members to reference.
<troy_s> which is a helluva lot better than just dumping your jetty to the mailing list and thinking that it somehow magically will happen.
<Madpilot> troy_s, I wasn't volunteering Ubuntu's DocTeam, I was suggesting that LP get it's own
<troy_s> yep... i understood that :)
<troy_s> but hell... docteam is docteam.  laf.
<Madpilot> ha. People have tried to assign random stuff to DocTeam before, it didn't go over very well ;)
<troy_s> launchpad is a great resource, but no one really has used it for our team, and the information is _scarce_
<troy_s> i bet
<troy_s> especially considering that doc team didn't exist until recently thanks to a few committed individuals.
<troy_s> it was just as our 'team' currently is.
<troy_s> scattered and useless.
<Madpilot> DocTeam came together in a huge way for Dapper release
<troy_s> with a few folks who silently plod along on particulars.
<troy_s> oh yeah!
<troy_s> make no mistake, i have been looking at them quite a bit lately...
<troy_s> some things i think we can do better, of course ;)
<Madpilot> ArtTeam also seems to have a few people who delight in endlessly re-arranging our wiki pages, I've noticed ;)
<troy_s> that svg is cool as hell... how do you scale those svgs?  inkscape?
<Madpilot> yes
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> well the re-arranging kind of started with me being pissed with the outdated nature and a general lack of structure.  then bersace put in a lot of legwork to refine it -- with the goal to be an overhaul.
<troy_s> needless to say, it is at least evolving.
<Madpilot> yeah. docteam's never done much over the wiki, really - mostly ML and of course the actual docs are in an SVN repo
<troy_s> the only _real_ issue is that english isn't et's first language, so he needs some help proofing and such.
<troy_s> well wikis are useful in a number of ways -- for one, the number of new artwork folks who are at least observing and participating has shot up huge.
<Madpilot> noticed that too, but proofreading is something I'm better than most at :)
<troy_s> because there is a little info there now.
<troy_s> great!
<troy_s> you should help him out... he is quite a mule when it comes to slogging out the dirty bits that no one else will attempt.  eager as heck to get it in order too i might add.
<troy_s> i'm a bit of a stickler for spelling and grammar, but my schedule isn't terrific so I need to target my energy rather tactically at the moment.
<Madpilot> troy_s, are you going to Paris? (being sponsered?)
<troy_s> yes i am going to paris.
<Madpilot> cool
<troy_s> which is horrible because my french stinks (although not as bad as some folks)
<troy_s> and i _really_ feel like a fish out of water when meeting people i have only chatted with via email.
<troy_s> but alas, c'est la vie.
<Madpilot> oui
<troy_s> At least being Canadian I was forced to learn a little basic French.
<Madpilot> "Biere, s'vous plait" - tres important ;)
<troy_s> Laf.
<troy_s> Mon stylo et grande et jaune.
<troy_s> Do you think you would be able to help out et with the wiki reorganization?
<troy_s> (and it goes without saying that we are all horribly busy.)
<troy_s> but as i have tried to stress... many hands make for light work.
<Madpilot> I'll see what I can do, et & others seem to have it well in hand, and to have a definite vision they're pursuing
<troy_s> anyone else in the channel of late?
<troy_s> well not quite... the amount of contribution currently is slim
<troy_s> et is a very good team player too... so i imagine he would be open to having some help.
<troy_s> hrrm... who changed the topic?
<troy_s> pascal's in the house
<msikma> so am I
<troy_s> hey mich -- how you doing?
<msikma> Unless you mean those who are going to Paris
<troy_s> there he is
<troy_s> greetz pas.
<msikma> I'm doing fine, thanks. I just finished a proposal for a redesign of the main page. I don't like what's currently on there. So I'll just pipe that into the mailing list soon.
<troy_s> main page?
<msikma> The Ubuntu main page
<klepas> hey
<troy_s> oh...
<troy_s> well be careful
<troy_s> because henrik is a wonderful guy.
<troy_s> and i think he has had the bulk of that workload dumped on him with little support.
<msikma> Ah, I see
<troy_s> so phrase carefully
<troy_s> :)
<msikma> Yeah, I'll do that :)
<troy_s> who changed the topic?
<klepas> troy_s: as you have admin rights to the launchpad team could you please add the meeting time
<klepas> to the calendar
<klepas> topic is the same as of last time we spoke :)
<troy_s> klepas:  yeah i was working on trying to figure out a way to hit the members with mail.
<troy_s> is it?
<klepas> yes
<troy_s> ahhh mine is because i tried to change it.  weird.  i must have been opped before.
<troy_s> but i don't recall seeing it.
<msikma> It's not really a total redesign, actually, it's just moving around some things and "fixing" some things such as stretched type and the usage of the Ubuntu font for other things than the actual logo, which I think might not be that suitable. http://thingmajig.org/tmp/ubuntuhomepage_proposal.png
<msikma> And other small things such as the logos to the right not being lined up exactly correctly.
<troy_s> msikma:  agree though.  a website is such a monumental task too...
<msikma> I'll just quickly write up some thoughts and then head off to work.
<msikma> Oh, by the way
<troy_s> klepas
<troy_s> what do you want for a description?
<msikma> Does Henrik monitor the art mailing list?
<troy_s> yes.
<troy_s> i believe he does... but as a VERY active ubuntu member, he is probably swamped with backlogs of mail.
<troy_s> klepas?
<klepas> troy_s: "This meeting will lay down some leadership positions and begin organising ourselves so we can soon begin creating some rocking art."
<klepas> mhh
<klepas> let me reword that
<troy_s> there... it is added.
<troy_s> of course i added it before you shipped that blasted summary :)
<klepas> "This meeting will focus on the leadership and organisation of the team such that we can soon begin to create some rocking art."
<troy_s> i think it might be wise to treat it as a pre-meeting to see who is active out there and who can get themselves into irc.
<klepas> i'll post the agenda in the next few hours
<troy_s> further still, it appears that Mark has ideas for a driver based team.
<troy_s> klepas did you manage to squeeze one out?
<klepas> could you please link to the wiki meeting agenda page in that calendar description
<klepas> troy_s: not as of yet. in the next few hours it will be up on the wiki and in the  ML
<troy_s> 49 members... interesting.
<klepas> i hope the turnout is not that large ;)
<troy_s> klepas:  its a wiki bro.  you are a launchpad member, no?
<troy_s> i would hope the opposite.
<troy_s> i am interested to see who is lurking out there on the mailing list.
<troy_s> although i have a pretty good idea based on the sheer volume of mail that i get to sort through every day in my private box... laf.
<klepas> do you think it should be noted in the calendar description who will be chairing?
<klepas> such that people know beforehand when i tell people to keep on track...
<troy_s> no clue.
<klepas> no worries
<klepas> actually
<klepas> i'll stick it into the agenda
<troy_s> once you put up your notion of an agenda, i would think that it might be clearer.
<klepas> so that people know beforehand, especially for latecomers
<klepas> how long will you be online
<troy_s> for a bit more...
<troy_s> i am going to adjust some more docs stewing and tend to some further email.
<klepas> because i could really do with a nap before doing this agenda
<msikma> Wham, mail sent.
<msikma> Okay, so, when's the meeting again? It's on a saturday, right?
<troy_s> its on launchpad.
<troy_s> for those who can attend.
<msikma> Maybe you could add it to the topic here so I can memorize it :P
<troy_s> although, judging from irc participation, i suspect it will be... dribbly
<troy_s> msikma:  i would but i can't change the topic of late.
<troy_s> no ops.
<troy_s> but launchpad has it.
<msikma> Oh, I see, so all the ops on the access list aren't active anymore? Maybe we should ask a freenode staffer to fix that.
<troy_s> there aren't any ops here.
<klepas> msikma: Saturday June 17, 16:00 UTC, in #ubuntu-meeting
<troy_s> but i know for certain i was able to change it previously.
<troy_s> klepas:  crappers.  i put it in #ubuntu-art
<msikma> There must be at least one op in a channel.
<klepas> :)
<troy_s> msikma:  not on public servers necessarily.
<msikma> The owner of the channel is one who always has access.
<Madpilot> troy_s, this channel is +t now - only ops can change the /topic
<klepas> troy_s: could you add the description i mentioned above below what you wrote?
<troy_s> msikma:  yah but you get a default op by leaves.
<troy_s> and netsplits.
<troy_s> who put the plus t in i wonder.
<Madpilot> no idea - last person to change the topic was you, troy_s
<msikma> Well, I'll look into it later, I gotta go now
<msikma> See you later
<troy_s> wtf is that about?
<troy_s> i didn't plus t it
<klepas> troy_s: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam/Meetings/Agenda add that to the description
<klepas> on the calendar
<troy_s> klepas:  only problem is that there isn't a clear edgy target spec yet.
<troy_s> klepas:  not until the dev meeting.
<klepas> we don't need to come up with one
<klepas> yea
<klepas> we'll discuss the leadership and organisation
<troy_s> klepas:  and it also seems like mark has some things planned or at least loosely set into motion.
<klepas> and then lay down some fundamental goals
<klepas> just simple stuff
<klepas> like "get our art into edgy mainstream"
<troy_s> LAF
<troy_s> not a bad goal.
<Madpilot> goals like "No waiting until 24hrs before release to debate which themes we're including"
<troy_s> that was a great one
<klepas> oh, that too :)
<troy_s> who deserves a lot of credit for that
<troy_s> he did a tremendous amount of work
<troy_s> since this is irc
<klepas> Madpilot: hope that get's fixed by the organisational issues that we have/will soon solve
<troy_s> it is probably a good place to discuss some concerns.  mine are largely that A) we have six months (which if you have ever developed ANYTHING professionally know that it just isn't a lot of time)
<klepas> troy_s: i'd like for you to go over the agenda once i've finished it
<troy_s> B) Ubuntu default theme / interface is horribly scattered with elements of true professionalism and elements of 'hey what the hell'
<klepas> i think 6 months is good
<Madpilot> troy_s, we don't have six months. We've got about 4 & a half, assuming Edgy goes right back to it's October release date
<troy_s> 6 months IS good if we have a VERY formal structure in place with hard deadlines -- i agree.
<klepas> and B) is arguable. it's an opinion which some people disregard and others go beyond even
<troy_s> mad -- good point!
<troy_s> klepas:  so you think the default is where it should be?
<klepas> i think there are some crap things in the current theme
<troy_s> klepas:  i tend to agree with franks summary for the large.  i REALLY like the gnome splash, for example, but it feels out of place with the desktop wall.
<klepas> but there is also some good stuff
<klepas> yea, i agree... splash is great but wallpaper isn't and doesn't fit
<troy_s> but again, these sorts of artistic issues can't be resolved without a formal structure for following.
<troy_s> meaning no color submissions for proofs of principle.
<troy_s> etc.
<klepas> and note we did not create that art
<troy_s> start with simple, then vote, then keep cleaning up and polishing...
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> it really needs to be more like a formal sculpture than a hodge podgey submit and hope for a dart to hit the board sort of thing.
<troy_s> and, to have ANY chance, we need to at least make ONE hard release goal to test our packaging and conversational abilities with the rest of the team.  do you know what i mean?
<klepas> yes
<troy_s> that is, one hard PRE-release goal (eg dapper flight), before final etc.
<klepas> i'd like to add something to what you've just brought up
<troy_s> personally, i find i kind of look forwards to the 'new' look of every ubuntu release.
<troy_s> i don't know how you all feel on it.
<troy_s> i like the idea of having a new usplash, etc and others that i have tried to start listing via targets etc.
<troy_s> yah go add.
<klepas> I personally think that the best way to go about creating good artwork that fits together (ie. the splash follows some similar styling to other artwork such as the wallpaper) would be to make sure people know this but then allow people come up with various artwork which they can freely choose the style for
<klepas> then, maybe half-time
<klepas> we consider the artwork available and decide on one of the themes
<klepas> "themes/styles"
<klepas> and go with it
<troy_s> klepas:  absolutely.  the idea as per the design doc is to have a given time limit on pondering -- meaning that we all arrive at some general textures, motifs, etc.
<klepas> because that way it's a more open process
<klepas> yes!
<troy_s> for example, maybe with compiz and such for edgy we suggest something like maybe glass, tranlucency, etc
<troy_s> then work on some mock ups for each target
<klepas> we can't have this go on for months... maybe just in the first
<troy_s> nope
<klepas> however
<troy_s> i based my estimates on a six month cycle.  ponder i think was allocated 1.
<klepas> it is important to realise the existing artwork
<klepas> _especially_ the GDM theme
<troy_s> ?
<klepas> Mark does not want to change
<troy_s> is that a statement or are you typing more?
<klepas> more :)
<troy_s> hrm... where are his references to it?
<troy_s> the GDM theme has been static for a number of releases, and i strongly suspect that if we were successful as a team to create an entire cohesive set of art bits for edgy, he would be more than likely to approve it.  that said, if we flounder as we have, the chances are high that 'what works' will stick.
<klepas> The GDM theme has been around for a while now and is quite well known. It has not been changed for several releases now (can't remember where it first appeared... Hoary or maybe even Warty).
<klepas> true that
<troy_s> yah but is that because it is a mandate or because there simply is no damn artwork team?
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> hell... i can get an answer to that pretty darn quick.  in fact, i will do that before leaving tonite.
<klepas> but we should keep in mind that changing existing artwork each release is not as important as providing artwork in areas missing consistency or with a complete lack of artwork
<troy_s> klepas:  which is exactly Frank's point...
<klepas> :)
<troy_s> klepas:  my personal opinion is that we have a set number of 'new' targets for each release -- meaning just enough change to make people go 'ooooh cool new look', and yet is easily attainable within six months...
<klepas> so we should focus more on Tangerine, Tango, a splash, some wallpapers and perhaps a better Metacity theme
<troy_s> klepas:  and in the background make sure details like Frank's list make completion.
<klepas> in my humble opinion
<troy_s> Well what exactly is tangerine in its totality?
<troy_s> as far as i can see... human is default correct?
<troy_s> and human is sort of a fork off of tangerine, no?
<klepas> Tangerine came about as an icon set made by the community
<troy_s> (strictly speaking icon work -- and i would say icons are the LAST thing to get changed as they are massive -- and they need finishing)
<klepas> because the community could not contribute to Human
<troy_s> why could they not contribute to human?
<troy_s> and i think human was funded by mark via iconfactory iirc?
<klepas> and as Mark does not like Tango very much and wanted a branded icon set Lapo and Andreas stood up offering examples of Human style-Tango-style icons
<klepas> which we made by the community, in a short period of time
<troy_s> you have links to tango handy?
<klepas> Human is being produced using proprietary tools, as it seems and by a contracted artists through Canonical
<klepas> sure
<troy_s> yes i heard it was iconfactory.
<klepas> http://www.tango-project.org
<klepas> Lapo, Andreas and I use it... :)
<klepas> it's much more consistent than Human
<troy_s> but i was under the impression that iconfactory was assigned the work because there simply wasn't a viable set in totality by the art team
<klepas> or Tangerine (as we must first see the Human icons to use the visual metaphors in the subsequent Tangerine icon for that Human icon)
<troy_s> lost me there.
<klepas> Mark told me that they went for a contracted artist because the art team was disorganised
<troy_s> klepas:  bingo!
<klepas> oh, sorry
<klepas> i'll rephrase that
<troy_s> that's my take on the whole situation... mark just steps up and gets the stuff done when he sees a lack of coordination.
<klepas> Tangerine is based on Human heavily. We use their visual metaphors (ie. we copy the object Human uses in the icon for the same action)
<troy_s> but then modify the color scheme?
<klepas> mind you, I don't recall Mark asking us of an icon set of the like
<klepas> not that it matters now
<klepas> Tangerine is just as complete as Human is
<troy_s> klepas:  see that's the problem.  NO one has bothered to put down a manifesto, nor a design doc, nor a spec listing, etc.
<klepas> and as soon as a new Human icon comes out Tangerine is updated shortly after
<troy_s> klepas:  IF such a thing were in place, I am pretty certain that Mark would choose the community driven effort.
<klepas> we don't necessarily need a lot of specs
<troy_s> klepas:  i totally disagree.
<klepas> just friendly cooperation where people work on the things they like and allow us to get some rocking work done
<troy_s> klepas:  structure is the key to succeeding at anything -- Ubuntu is a case in point.
* klepas has never been a large fan of specs... Tango does not have any more specs than the icon styling guides
<troy_s> klepas:  it simply doesn't work well like that.  people need to know things... people need targets.  if you want to get something done, you need to define it.  this means not 'hey help us' but more "System-help in Tangerine needs completing.  Please submit your proof of principles. <vote> now work on color <vote> now work on polish etc"
<klepas> and the Tango team are producing many icons each month
<klepas> i like to find a middlepoint between the two extremes you just gave
<troy_s> icons are great, and community is great, and everyone doing something is great.  THAT said, my problem with the current state (aside from there being NO art team, NO information base, NO direction, NO textural manuals, etc)
<troy_s> is that you can't expect professional looking products (that means cohesive and truly polished) without using professional tactics.
<klepas> Madpilot: could you explain how the doc team handles this issue?
<troy_s> but i am willing for you to demonstrate how ubuntu's art has done wonderfully in this regard thus far.
<Madpilot> klepas, sorry, was afk - which issue?
<klepas> oh, just organisation... mostly in terms of how many specs and guides and so forth you have laid down
<klepas> on how the team works
<troy_s> let me suggest that the doc team is still evolving as well :)
<Madpilot> not many, actually. there's already far more ArtworkTeam pages at wiki.u.c than the DocTeam has ever had
<troy_s> mark and i have had numerous discussions about that.
<klepas> i really like the way the doc team works personally
<Madpilot> we had clearer-cut 'products' than ArtTeam, though - one Desktop Guide for each distro, a Server Guide, a Packaging Guide, a few stray smaller things
<klepas> the number of guidelines and specs on how the team should work is not excessive such that people are turned away by the amount they need to read and understand before being able to contribute
<klepas> :)
<Madpilot> and the Kubuntu & Xubuntu Desktop Guides grew out of the Ubuntu DG after the UDG was well advanced, for the Dapper docs
<klepas> cool
<troy_s> klepas:  there are thus far three things listed, and those were only the ones i could realistically find in existence for the artwork team.  personally, i would like to see EVERYTHING done on the mailing list, and then posted to some sort of CMS.  simple and painless.
<klepas> i think the wiki, mailing list, this channel, launchpad and AUC are fine
<klepas> we need to cut down the number of pages on the wiki
<troy_s> klepas:  if it were entirely up to me, i go to simple... too much is clutter.
<klepas> use the ML for general communication
<klepas> irc for chats and meetings
<troy_s> klepas:  yep... the pages are actually _reduced_ from the amount of disorganized stuff i was compiling.
<Madpilot> all the Ubuntu teams have this many communication channels, remember, and they manage...
<klepas> launchpad for the formal stuff like packaging and calendar
<troy_s> klepas:  i dislike the meetings page (useless) the agenda page (useless) etc.
<klepas> and AUC for artwork, especially that which does not go into mainstream
<troy_s> klepas:  i am more towards 'How to contribute' etc... with a CLEARLY listed summary of tasks.
<troy_s> klepas:  yeah... you look into AUC by chance?  ;)
<klepas> i have admin rights to it yes.
<klepas> i dislike the CMS
<klepas> greatly
<troy_s> well ... its out of date.
<Madpilot> our current (evolving, granted) wiki pages seem to have far too much overlap, IMO, and too many blank pages with no current purpose - vast blank pages with ambitious titles serve only to intimidate...
<troy_s> Madpilot:  which ones?  ArtworkTeam or Artwork?
<klepas> i suggested using something like gnome-look.org but it seems to be proprietary
<klepas> Madpilot: agree
<troy_s> Artwork and ArtworkTeam, might I note, were originally dumped into the hands of Henrik (once again)
<troy_s> I did as much thinning as I dare before risking being a defacer :)
<Madpilot> troy_s, the team pages, mostly, but they seem to be growing together somehow
<troy_s> believe me, I am massively into quickly scannable and intuitive page organization.
<klepas> that would be something to add to the agenda
<troy_s> see the thing is ... it is great to have ideas, but if NO one puts them to work, they are fodder.  which is why i support Et 100% thus far for at least ATTEMPTING to move the wiki forwards.
<troy_s> he bothers to put the legwork in when others simply don't, and for that, he should be commended.  Look how long it took for someone to step up and collect the mailing list details as requested.
<klepas> the wiki is important to keep
<troy_s> simple things, but it took ages to get people to DO THE WORK.
<klepas> because it ties in with all the other things already on it
<troy_s> its a mess.
<klepas> then let's fix it
<klepas> i can do it in a weekend
<troy_s> hell the root page had NO information on how the hell to get involved with the artwork team.
<troy_s> klepas:  uh yah.  that is why et has been posting to the mailing list.
<troy_s> klepas:  the response is ...
<troy_s> everyone needs to work together... i think we can all agree that while the wiki isn't great -- it took a bit of a shake up to admit that most people agree it isn't great.
<troy_s> agree?
<klepas> i have an idea in this regard
<klepas> there is no point arguing endlessly how a team should function but rather after this meeting, specifically after the artist-in-chief and some art-leaders are elected
<klepas> the leaders will fix some of the problems (such as the wiki)
<troy_s> klepas:  which makes me a _little_ leery.
<troy_s> klepas:  only because i suspect that mark has been waiting quite a while for this to come to a hilt and now it appears that he does indeed have a few ideas on things...
<klepas> and if people disagree how it is ends up they can make suggestions, but otherwise unless the problem is critical or illogical we leave it
<klepas> and fix it later
<Madpilot> troy_s, I do agree - it's only after parts of the wiki started expanding exponentially that I realized what a mess it was ;)
<klepas> that we can get some work done
<troy_s> madpilot:  if you think it is expanding, you are quite incorrect... you should have seen it before i subpaged all the bits...
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> it was a nightmare
<troy_s> still is in many respects, but as i said, slash and burn breeds dissent unless everyone agrees we need to do some burning :)
<Madpilot> troy_s, good point - docteam had stuff spread all over the wiki until a few months ago too (which reminds me, I need to fix up the Canada Loco Team pages - same problem there...)
<troy_s> and then there was that *uggh* split between artwork / artworkteam / art this/ art that art dapper propositions my proposition and mine and this one is really good too and god.
<klepas> as for leadership...
<troy_s> which is ultimately in a document stating DO THIS... DONT DO THIS.
<klepas> three art-leaders and an artist-in-chief
<klepas> sound cool to you?
<klepas> that is what mark suggested.
<troy_s> hence the template, an attempt to coordinate the means of communicate, etc.  slow but surely.
<klepas> and people generally seem to like it
<troy_s> sounds great to me, but tough to arrive at.
<klepas> i think we'll manage
<klepas> we shall see at the meeting
<klepas> that's what i'm there for predominately
<troy_s> for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that i am concerned there are some latent folks who might suddenly re-emerge -- of course, if you can't keep up to date via the blasted mailing list, then maybe you shouldn't be involved.  very tough questions really.
<troy_s> problem also is that mark will not attend that one, which means the official stamp that so many people need isn't there.
<troy_s> agree?
<klepas> ah well
<troy_s> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects  -- that's a great example as an aside.
<klepas> it should not stop us
<klepas> i'll chair it to make sure things keep on track
<troy_s> hey i am all for anything that gets some documented structure in place.
<troy_s> 100% for hard fast rules.
<klepas> i've invited some of the interested folks from the doc team to join us
<troy_s> there are a lot of new folks who are very interested, but need some clearly set documents...
<klepas> Madpilot: can i invite you to attend?
<troy_s> i could forward you all the mail.
<troy_s> but i don't think you would want to wade through them all.
<Madpilot> klepas, the artteam meeting? I'd planned on being there
<klepas> thanks. :)
<Madpilot> 17th @ 1600Z/0900PDT, right?
<klepas> yea, iirc
<troy_s> crappers... i need to bed very soon.
<Madpilot> likewise, I need to be up in about 5 & a half hours :|
<troy_s> eek
<troy_s> ditto!
<klepas> i won't put the agenda on the wiki
<troy_s> mad:  by the way, type 'art' into a text search at the wiki.
<klepas> mailing list will do
<klepas> what do you think?
<troy_s> klepas:  wise.
<klepas> leave the wiki at this moment
<troy_s> klepas:  the wiki is probably going to migrate to under artwork, which does make sense...
<Madpilot> night all
<klepas> i might add if i have the time to the wiki
<troy_s> of course, the guidelines need to be setup for what goes where -- hence the idea of migrating towards ONE 'incoming' area for submissions / drafts / etc.
<troy_s> a very real serious problem is that when a member of our community steps up (such as et) and says 'please help organize', the response is nil.
<troy_s> and everyone waits for some elusive moment to happen.
<troy_s> klepas which is now past the point, and people are actually finally starting to do some legwork.
<klepas> i hope that andreas and lapo are amongst the team leaders
<troy_s> andreas and lapo need to get more active.
<klepas> ugh...
<klepas> they work on Tangerine
<klepas> they made it happen :)
<klepas> they are very active... just not happy with the way the discussions are happening
<klepas> which is why they are interested in this coming meeting so we can stop discussing and arguing and get work done
<troy_s> well, as i said, it is very difficult to run a chess game with everyone playing their own moves.
<troy_s> the arguing is inevitable... i just ignore it.
<troy_s> discussions don't arrive at anything unless there is a clearly defined set of documents produced either.
<troy_s> nobody has even bothered to look into the tools available to us.
<troy_s> and by active i don't mean producing more, i mean simply working on structure.
<lapo> g'morning
<klepas> moin lapo
<lapo> ciao klepas, how do you do?
<klepas> doing alright
<klepas> moin
<troy_s> greetings lapo
<lapo> ciao troy_s
<klepas> the agenda has been posted
<troy_s> klepas:  for future ref, i would suggest that plaintext is a little more standard -- if anyone is set to html off they are going to get html based distractions in the mail -- losing the gist of the message.
<klepas> mhh
<klepas> right
<klepas> i was tossing it up
<klepas> i wanted to bring attention to various things
<klepas> and if they use evolution/sylpheed/kmail they ought not have any problems :)
<qmf> hey guys, is there a package with the ubuntu logo's avaiable for download?
<lapo> qmf: check here: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy?highlight=%28logo%29
<qmf> fantastic. thanks
<lapo> np
<qmf> i submitted a background.. how long does it take to be accepted?
<adamant1988> no idea
<adamant1988> I submitted a couple yesterday and the day before
<adamant1988> can I see the wp you submitted?
<lapo> qmf: accepted?
<qmf> http://starqmf.com/images/smoke001
<qmf> lapo - it's pending at the moment
<lapo> qmf: where? art.ubuntu.com?
<qmf> yeah
<adamant1988> qmf did you paint that with fractal brushes?
<adamant1988> ??
<qmf> no, i was pretty stoned one night and was taking pictures of smoke in a projector beam
<adamant1988> that explains a lot
<qmf> heh
<qmf> i have 2 gigs worth of them
<qmf> need to sort through and find the good ones
<adamant1988> word of advice... try to not saturate them as much.
<qmf> i didn't touch the photo, it's as it was taken, xcf is with it tho so people will be able to desaturate if they fancy that.
<adamant1988> are there any artists/designers in here who might want to do a collaberation for an Ubuntu WP?
<qmf> ahh, photoshop 7 under ubuntu. now i can be productive!
<adamant1988> how did you get ps7 working?
<adamant1988> wine?
<qmf> crossover office
<qmf> works perfect
<adamant1988> ah, how much does that run?
<adamant1988> the price I mean?
<qmf> .. i didn't pay for it so i dont know
<adamant1988> you jacked a copy of crossover?
<qmf> yes.
<adamant1988> tsk tsk
<adamant1988> I want to see some of your work though
<qmf> i'm a chef in a pub kitchen. i can't afford to throw money away on things that should be open source in the first place
<qmf> im gonna read up on some gnome theme tutorials
<qmf> they look pretty tough
<adamant1988> do you have any finished works I can see?
<qmf> of what?
<adamant1988> art
<qmf> my last webhost went down with all my stuff on it.
<qmf> i have backups on a box which is in storage
<adamant1988> so you don't have ANYTHING you can show me?
<qmf> so i can't really get anything off there right now.
<qmf> no, i literally turned this laptop on for the first time in months 3 days ago
<qmf> oh
<qmf> no wait
<qmf> http://starqmf.deviantart.com
<qmf> forgot about that
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-16
<troy_s> ping
<Madpilot> pong (sort of) ;)
<troy_s> greetz mag
<troy_s> mad
<adamant1988> hi all
<troy_s> hey adamant
<lapo> hi
<lukacu> hello
<Riyonuk> so...
<troy_s> so?
<Riyonuk> XD, how can I contribute art
<troy_s> well it depends... what type of art do you want to contribute?
<Riyonuk> Im not sure, logos, icons?
<troy_s> riyonuk:  If you wish to contribute to something that will make the Edgy release, then you will need to wait a little longer until we have a development spec in place.
<troy_s> great.
<Riyonuk> edgy whats that?
<troy_s> edgy is the next release of ubuntu.
<Riyonuk> ahh
<Riyonuk> such weird names
<Riyonuk> i guess its better than v3 or whatever
<troy_s> if you want to contribute some simple art to the community, your best starting point is gnome-look.org or something akin to that.
<Riyonuk> alright ill check that out
<troy_s> every release, mark picks a handle for the release - 6.06 was Dapper Drake, the next is Edgy Eft
<troy_s> If you want to try and contribute to the 'main' Ubuntu default distribution, you will need to get involved via the wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam start point.
<Riyonuk> gnome is the desktop right? I just want to work with ubuntu
<Riyonuk> yeah there we go
<troy_s> Yep.  Gnome is the window manager, so you can't work on one without the other :)
<Riyonuk> where do i go in the wiki?
<troy_s> right now, there are structural steps being taken to try and get everything up to a click and contribute sort of level.
<Riyonuk> ahh i guess thats what im looking for, they should make something where "Need Ubuntu Logo" and then people upload there pictures, then we can see them on one page, and then we vote
<troy_s> It's happening :)
<Riyonuk> ok
<troy_s> But your involvement would help if you take the time to go to that page.
<troy_s> Perhaps even read through the mail archives to get a feel of the last few months activity.
<Riyonuk> Well the thing is ubuntu confuses me, there site confuses me, but ill try
<Riyonuk> ...so many links to click
<troy_s> Yep.
<troy_s> Another issue we are trying to streamline.
<jsgotangco> hi!
<troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeam _should_ be relatively easy to understand for you.
<troy_s> if it isn't, let us know how to make it better as the wiki is undergoing massive restructuring at some point in this cycle... sooner.
<Riyonuk> so what should i do in the meantime, i was aiming twords actually coding but thats impossible
<troy_s> greetings jsgot!
<troy_s> riyonuk:  bear with the group for a moment.
<Riyonuk> alright
<troy_s> riy:  learn launchpad, etc.
<Riyonuk> whats that?
<troy_s> riy:  we intend on using it for this next cycle.
<troy_s> go to that artworkteam page.
<troy_s> it is all there.
<Riyonuk> ok ill try
<Riyonuk> but i dont understand any of this to be honest
<troy_s> jsgotangco: What is up?
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Well you will need to do a little legwork... it's in its infancy still.
<jsgotangco> hey just checking what's up online, will be flying in a few hours
<Riyonuk> what is launchpad, a programming language?
<adamant1988> hi all.
<jsgotangco> Riyonuk: http://launchpad.net
<Riyonuk> so its like the center of OS software
<jsgotangco> a lot of ubuntu development revolves around launchpad
<klepas> it's a development framework
<klepas> allows developers to track bugs, manage packages they create, talk to each other - ultimately to collaborate and create some rocking stuff :)
<Riyonuk> ahh
<klepas> :)
<Riyonuk> well you know them bounties, is there any like the "Creat a slogan" ones that dont involve coding but more of ideas
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Generally no.
<Riyonuk> ahh i only know html...
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Strictly speaking, HTML is a markup language... not really 'code' per se.
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Python, C, C++ would all qualify as 'code' :)
<Riyonuk> im trying to learn c++...
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Needless to say, the structure is setting in.
<Riyonuk> not much luck
* klepas quite likes python
<troy_s> Starting with C is probably well over the edge.
<troy_s> Start with python or something simple like bash scripting.
<Riyonuk> what should i start with?
<klepas> python or mayhaps ruby
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Depends on your knowledge level... if you are very very very new to coding, start with scripting.
<Riyonuk> new yes
<klepas> no matter who you talk to you're going to get a biased answer though :)
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Dive into scripting some stuff for your home folder tidying etc.
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Something that works... then build up from there.
<klepas> python is lovely for many reasons
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Maybe start with something as simple as a script that prints out the contents of a directory etc.
<Riyonuk> what is the script, like does it have its own language
<troy_s> Google bash
<troy_s> scripting
<troy_s> There are many simple howtos out there... learning how to mine information on the net is very important for coding as well, so it is a good introduction.
<Riyonuk> tell me its for windows
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Most scripting languages are available for windows, but you will need to target one that is cross platform.
<Riyonuk> bash sounds linux like
<troy_s> bash is... you are in an Ubuntu forum.
<troy_s> :)
<troy_s> Expect linux.
<troy_s> If you don't run Linux, you will not have an easy time with all the details.
<troy_s> As klepas has said, python is good too...
<troy_s> Greetings by the by klepas!
<Riyonuk> so i cant learn bash? im on windows, linux i dont have
<jsgotangco> Riyonuk: yes
<jsgotangco> Riyonuk: try googling for "cygwin"
<Riyonuk> is that windows?
<jsgotangco> yes
<jsgotangco> http://www.cygwin.com/
<Riyonuk> god i wish i was smart
<Riyonuk> theres so many stuff out there i didnt know i didnt know
<adamant1988> Riyonuk, it's not being dumb, it's just being ignorant, there is a difference.
<troy_s> Riyonuk:  Indeed... Linux and open source / free software (freedom) is all about education.
<troy_s> Riyonuk:  The more you learn, the more power you have.  The more you understand.  The more you work towards further freedoms.
<Riyonuk> not to me, for me its stupidity, ill sit there for like hours trying to learn
<adamant1988> Riyonuk, I  don't know a single language, and I'm trying my best to learn them
<adamant1988> I'm in the same boat as you.
<Riyonuk> cool
<Riyonuk> well not really cool
<adamant1988> But I know I'm not stupid, I just don't know yet.
<troy_s> Riyonuk: You need to start small.  Your knowledge will compound.  You are having problems because you
<Riyonuk> so whats cgywin supposed to do
<troy_s> are trying to read and you don't really know the alphabet yet :)
<adamant1988> Nice analogy troy
<troy_s> Riyonuk:  Take your time, start small, and work up.  It will come and you will eventually learn _much_ faster.  Learning is a geometric curve.
<adamant1988> Riyonuk,  how old are you?
<Riyonuk> i sure hope so, i guess your right, i first had no idea of html and no its easy like pie
<Riyonuk> 15
<adamant1988> Ah.  you've plenty of time to learn
<adamant1988> I'm 17.
<Riyonuk> 207.235.116.176
<troy_s> adamant1988: I use the literacy analogy quite often.  It is simple and easy to grasp.  In a world where the commercial operating systems want you to think that the computer is a gadget and you should point and click for everything, I suggest that it is more like language and literacy -- more important and more difficult.  That's just the way it is.
<Riyonuk> thats my site, im working on
<adamant1988> :) well put
<adamant1988> YES this update is MASSIVE
<troy_s> truthfully, Apple and Microsoft would like it to be kept that way -- it keeps the power in the centre and lets you market it.
<Riyonuk> alright im downloading setup.exe
<troy_s> Riyonuk:  If you _really_ want to start the path of learning, try installing Ubuntu (which should be easy) and living on it.
<troy_s> Riyonuk: You will feel pretty good about what you learn.
<Riyonuk> i tried that, very hard
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Don't give up!  There are thousands of people who will help you.
<troy_s> Riyonuk: #ubuntu is a great starting place.
<troy_s> Riyonuk: and the Ubuntu philosophy and code of conduct means that no one will admonish you for not knowing.  They are _very_ supportive.
<Riyonuk> yeah i can see that
<Riyonuk> your not like others that cuss me out and tell me to use google
<troy_s> Riyonuk: That isn't what Ubuntu is about, nor myself.  I want to educate so that you can help others.
<troy_s> Riyonuk: If we don't, then MS and Apple win.
<Riyonuk> ok, but before i start anywhere i think i need dsl, dont you think
<troy_s> Riyonuk: It could help, but not totally necessary.
<troy_s> Riyonuk: As I said, you can start with what you have
<Riyonuk> which is a 97 pc and dial-up
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Start small :)
<Riyonuk> ill try
<Riyonuk> so i start where...
<troy_s> Well... xubuntu might be a good start point.
<Riyonuk> umm what will i be doing/learnign
<troy_s> Riyonuk: You just need to dive in.  There is no way I could give you a list of what you will learn.
<Riyonuk> Im thinking maybe I should learn windows first before linux
<troy_s> Riyonuk: It's your choice.
<troy_s> This has migrated to #ubuntu-offtopic though.
<troy_s> Riyonuk: Good luck with your learning.
<Riyonuk> thanks
<jsgotangco> oh so this is the artwork meeting???
<Riyonuk> im off to uhh im not sure
<troy_s> jsgotangco:  No.
<jsgotangco> ah hehe
<jsgotangco> i thought it was
<troy_s> jsgotangco: Saturday.
<jsgotangco> ah right
<troy_s> jsgotangco: For those who can attend, which is probably not myself and a few others judging from what I know.
* jsgotangco should get some sleep
<troy_s> ping
<troy_s> bersace you in?
<troy_s> ping
<adamant1988> pong
<adamant1988> hello troy :)
<troy_s> greetz adamant
<adamant1988> So troy, what is up?
<troy_s> how are you doing?
<troy_s> just doing some last minute  pre-paris stuffs.
<adamant1988> I'm doing well, got off of my first job, have to go to my next one in a while.
<troy_s> trying to get the specs into launchpad for dev
<troy_s> blah blah
<troy_s> wow.
<troy_s> two jobs.
<troy_s> eager fellow.
<adamant1988> yeah, something like that.
<troy_s> you going to school right now?
<adamant1988> no
<adamant1988> I couldn't do both jobs and school, I'd die.
<troy_s> know the feeling... did it :)
<troy_s> one job and school is enough.
<adamant1988> but yeah... I was thinking about trying to get involved in the ubuntu art thing.
<troy_s> good for you.  there should be a pretty solid framework in place shortly...
<troy_s> need to kill off a couple of matters before hard advancements are made.
<troy_s> namely paris.
<adamant1988> yeah... well, I wanted to get an idea of where I stand artwise
<troy_s> i think the nice thing is that with a good design document, _everyone_ can contribute even if they have limited artistic abilities etc.
<adamant1988> http://dismalmuse.deviantart.com/
<adamant1988> can you tell me where I stand =\
<troy_s> scratch some concept on a napkin and refine.
<troy_s> well
<troy_s> art is rather subjective
<troy_s> you will find that if you pursue it professionally, you will have favorites and dislikes regarding styles and other artists.
<adamant1988> I used to be heavy into it
<adamant1988> I'd be able to do a lot more, better, if I had PS.
<troy_s> that looks like abstract macro photography
* troy_s very much like macro photography.
<adamant1988> minus the photography
<adamant1988> I painted it all
<troy_s> ps?  anything you want to do you can probably do in gimp
<troy_s> what are the white pixel specs from?  are they by design or scan?
<adamant1988> design.
<adamant1988> Noise set to lighten to give off a starry effect, well, that was the intention
<adamant1988> Yeah, but gimp is missing my favorite features
<troy_s> like what?
<adamant1988> Color Balance, levels, and B/C layers.
<troy_s> you know there are a plethora of all sorts of userland scripts out there for it.
<adamant1988> oh yeah?
<troy_s> color balance?  you mean like levels?
<adamant1988> Yeah, but as a layer instead of just effecting one
<adamant1988> like the CB layer effects all layers under it
<adamant1988> I used them ALL the time in PS
<troy_s> i would need to look into it further.  needless to say, i remember pre-photoshop days and believe me, it is still evolving.  takes time and people contributing.
<troy_s> there is always paint / brush / chalk / pencil / etc.
<troy_s> ;)
<adamant1988> oh yeah, my sister is into the painting and such
<adamant1988> I don't have the steady hand for it
<adamant1988> and I can't create form... I prefer abstract because I decide when it's finished.
<adamant1988> and I'm not just copying something, it's all coming from my brain
<troy_s> abstract is great.  there are a lot of historical abstract artists.
<troy_s> but knowing when something is finished is something that requires gosh knows how much practice.  I believe there is a famous quote out there something to the effect that "A good artist knows when to put the brush down."
<troy_s> can't remember who it was who said that...
<adamant1988> bill gates.
<troy_s> um no
<troy_s> laf.
<adamant1988> haha
<adamant1988> Did you hear billy boy is stepping down from his position in MS in 2008?
<troy_s> well something to that effect.  i think he is downing from chief architect or something, but alas, that is off topic.
<adamant1988> yeah...
<troy_s> "adamant1988: yeah... well, I wanted to get an idea of where I stand artwise" -- remember, there are a good number of rather high profile careers that were built around flying in the face of massive criticism from the 'general' public.  persistence pays off sometimes, and some even create genres...
<troy_s> cubism, dadaism, etc.
<adamant1988> yeah, but I want to help on the Ubuntu project some... and I know my 'work' isn't the norm.
<troy_s> in fact, dare i say that is often the whole point of art
<troy_s> i don't think you are alone.
<troy_s> you can clearly see that sort of thing when someone considers animation
<troy_s> it takes many many folks to get an animation completed -- keyframers, inbetweeners backgrounders, etc.
<troy_s> and all need to keep referencing the existing illustrations, design goals, etc to stay the course.
<troy_s> it's not easy.  if you go off on a tangent, the project starts to feel mishapen.
<troy_s> tricky juggling. ;)
<adamant1988> =\
<adamant1988> Yeah I like gimp, but I need my CB layers... and I don't like inkscape at all.
<adamant1988> I'm considering running Crossover office to run those programs...
<adamant1988> I'm going to make an ippimail wallpaper as soon as I can get patterns added to GIMP
<troy_s> sure.  keep in mind that ultimately they are just tools.  don't let the tools own you.
<troy_s> the source of the work is still you, and sometimes the artist needs to be creative to get that out.
<adamant1988> Yeah, the tools don't own me I can work around the lack of features, but it makes it a lot easier when I have them
<adamant1988> but I need to get GIMP to accept this pattern I made....
<troy_s> certainly... you might consider getting involved with the gimp project.  it is only as good as the people who contribute.
<adamant1988> I know like 0 coding.
<troy_s> sometimes it is a knowledge gap (meaning that it supports it, but you don't know how), sometimes it is a feature gap.
<adamant1988> yeah
<adamant1988> you wouldn't know how to get it to recognize custom patterns would you?
<troy_s> i might... private message me
<troy_s> what are you trying to do in particular?
<adamant1988> back
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-17
<troy_s> greetz mad
<Madpilot> hi
<adamant1988> hello all, hello troy_s
<adamant1988> hi all, troy_s  :)
<Madpilot> hi adamant1988
<adamant1988> Hi madpilot :)
<adamant1988> How are you today?
<adamant1988> Madpilot, is there any chance you could assist me in finding a logo I'm looking for?
<Madpilot> possibly - which logo?
<adamant1988> Ippimail
<adamant1988> I want to make a splash/wallpaper themed with the logo, but I can't find a scalable version.
<Madpilot> if there's a decent quality bitmapped version of it, you can use Inkscape's Trace Bitmap function to get a good SVG version
<adamant1988> hrmmm I guess I'll have to... lol... btw Madpilot how long does it take to get a wallpaper submission to be accepted to the Ubuntu art site?
<Madpilot> no idea, I still haven't submitted anything myself :)
<Madpilot> ping here or (better) on the mailing list
<adamant1988> yeah, I submitted a WP I did, I think it's decent nuff to put on the site...
<adamant1988> http://dismalmuse.deviantart.com/
<adamant1988> it's the ubuntu one of course
<Madpilot> nice
<adamant1988> I'm trying to do an ippimail logo because I support what they're doing.
<adamant1988> erm
<adamant1988> wallpaper
<adamant1988> they're 100% open source email and 45% of their profit goes to charity
<Madpilot> you might want to contact them, see if they've got high quality versions of their logo around
<adamant1988> I might try that companies don't respond to me usually =(
<adamant1988> Madpilot, that idea worked :)I just made a bmp version of the logo and then used inkscape to trace
<Madpilot> cool - Inkscape ftw ;)
<adamant1988> heh
<Madpilot> random Inkscape coolness: http://www.warbard.ca/temp/C152-CGUZR.svg (946k, and apparently it crashes Firefox for some people...)
<troy_s> adamant, the website won't be accepting many wallpapers until the whole art thing gets sorted...
<troy_s> the guys who have admin rights have been rather absentee admins.
<bersace> troy_s: I'm very very sorry
<bersace> but i won't be there at the meeting
<bersace> I herztlich apologize, but i can't
<bersace> i wish you will do some nice decisions :)
<bersace> if we have a vote, count one more of your choice as me :P
<bersace> or maybe like Frank
<bersace> if it differ
<lapo> hi
<Madpilot> hi lapo
<lapo> j #xubuntu
<lapo> ehm sorry
<troy_s> phreaks
<andreasn> meeting in one hour, eh?
<andreasn> back in a hour
<msikma> Isn't the meeting supposed to be now? It's 17:00 at GMT +1:00, and the meeting was scheduled for 16:00 GMT.
<cyanescent> no I think it's in 40 minutes: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
<cyanescent> msikma: it was decided for 16:00 UMT
<sabdfl> hello all
<sabdfl> do i have the wrong time?
<neodreams> Hi
<lukacu> 16.00 umt
<cyanescent> sorry UTC
<lukacu> hehe ... yup
<msikma> UMT??
<msikma> Oh
<cyanescent> msikma: you need to register on launchpad... I'm trying to add some suggestions you made on the mailing list
<cyanescent> but I can't add you as the drafter
<msikma> I did, but I'm named michiel3 there.
<cyanescent> ok
<cyanescent> thanks
<msikma> Neat! Would those be the main page suggestions?
<cyanescent> not yet that far
<cyanescent> I have a progress bar suggestion for gnome
<cyanescent> will get to the latest suggestions last
<klepas> 15 minutes
<msikma> I am so tired.
<klepas> 1:45 AM here :)
<msikma> Poor you.
<cyanescent> msikma: still can't find you
<cyanescent> there are half a dozen michiels
<msikma> Let me link you
<cyanescent> what is your email on launchpad
<msikma> Oh, right, I think I changed my name, or something. https://launchpad.net/people/msikma
<msikma> michiel@thingmajig.org
<cyanescent> thx
<Who_> So, are we about to havce a meeting?
<klepas> yes
<andreasn> yay!
<andreasn> :)
<klepas> have a copy of the agenda ready
<Who_> i.e your email, or is there a final one on the wiki
<andreasn> where can that be found?
<klepas> the email
<Who_> i'm afraid I may have to be absent every so often - I am visit some friends at Uni and I'm just borrowing a friends laptop!
<klepas> andreasn: if you have no access to it i'll find the ML message online
<klepas> fair enough
<klepas> just a moment then
<andreasn> what is the topic of the e-mail?
<msikma> [ubuntu-art]  Meeting agenda for Saturday June 17, 16:00 UTC,	in #ubuntu-meeting
<klepas> "Meeting agenda for Saturday June 17, 16:00 UTC, in #ubuntu-meeting"
<andreasn> ah, found it
<msikma> The space after the UTC, seems to be a tab... or am I mistaken?
<klepas> andreasn: could you link it here?
<klepas> msikma: space, iirc
<msikma> It's supposed to be a space.
<andreasn> klepas, oh, it was in my mail box
<andreasn> but I'll locate it in the archives
<klepas> ah, k
<klepas> i'll find the online version then for Who_
<msikma> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-June/002107.html
<sabdfl> all right
<sabdfl> evening / morning / night everybody
<andreasn> hi sabdfl
<klepas> thanks msikma :)
<klepas> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2006-June/002108.html
<klepas> shall we proceed to #ubuntu-meeting or wait a few more minutes?
<msikma> Yeah, that one's better, the first wasn't available as text.
<klepas> yea, it was a html message
<sabdfl> to #ubuntu-meeting
<klepas> sorry about that
<klepas> off we go
<troy_s> Et!
* klepas sighs
<klepas> it be 3:50 AM now here
<troy_s> klepas
<Who_> good job klepas :)
<troy_s> I forgot
<troy_s> before you left
<troy_s> leave
<troy_s> Madpilot showed some interest in the wiki.
<klepas> ah, cool
<troy_s> And I think he would be terrific if he can find time.
<klepas> i'll chase him up on it
<Who_> troy_s: you were saying something interesting back in the other channel about ubuntu-art and gnome-look....
<klepas> during the course of the meeting i had to squash two spiders that were crawling around on my desk... ugh
<troy_s> klepas:  Time to move :)
<Who_> klepas: squash them! why?
<troy_s> Who_:  In hindsight, I 2nd Who_.
<andreasn> if you kill spiders it's going to rain
<andreasn> didn't you know that ;)
<Who_> troy_s: What shall I do about it?
<klepas> Who_: because they were large, and resembled white-tails... which give nasty bites
<troy_s> It rains here all the damn time... I don't know if means we kill a lot of spiders.
<troy_s> Who_:  Um I was saying that I think we need a Content Management System.  The AUC is based on early gnome work i think.
<klepas> some Australian spiders are rather poisonous... deadly even
<Who_> klepas: ahh, I forgot you live in AU. I went back to NZ in January there (childhood home) and they are just suffering with white-tails
<klepas> AUC is based on gnome artwork
<troy_s> Is it Diku the other CMS that is good?
<klepas> as in art.gnome.org
<andreasn> what is sucky about the current auc?
<Who_> so as people seemed to agree we can use it as a 'net' to catch and focus new contributors - what actions should we take to go about making it happen?
<klepas> i thought a while back that perhaps gnome-look/kde-look's CMS would be good
<klepas> styled differently, of course
<bersace> Hello all !
<klepas> but it is proprietary
<bersace> so what ?
<bersace> was the meeting good ?
<troy_s> andreasn:  Admin features and structure really.
<klepas> and they were not willing to share it
<bersace> i saw a lot of spec !
<bersace> nice !
<bersace> :D
<troy_s> bersace:  Thank neil for that.
<Who_> bersace: useful - big changes to leadership - Mark will mail the group
<andreasn> troy_s, could it be fixed in collaboration with thos, or does it need to be thrown away?
<Who_> andreasn: who is thos?
<andreasn> Thomas Wood
<troy_s> andreasn:  I suggest that perhaps an existing CMS might serve better.  They are very good now and mature.
<Who_> :P Doesn't help me much...
<troy_s> andreasn:  And opensource...
<andreasn> Who_, he is the guy behind art.gnome.org
<Who_> isn't art.gnome.org's cms opensource?
<andreasn> Who_, thos is a regular gnome devel
<andreasn> I think he maintains gnome-themes
<Who_> andreasn: Thanks :)
<Madpilot> Given that AFAIK auc's CMS is identical to the one that runs every other official ubuntu site, and an Ubuntu/Canonical person will be sys-adminning it for us, we might as well just run with the standard CMS, because it's already there...
<klepas> Who_: yes, written in Ruby
<cyanescent> if we get another CMS its going to make admin even more of a nightmare tho
<Who_> I think that either the theme leaders or the leadership team should also be admins on auc - that would give them good harvesting potential
<cyanescent> we're already bogged down in it... why more ?
<Who_> yea, I see no need for a new one...
<Who_> but I haven't tried t administer the current ;)
<troy_s> Who_:  There are a bunch of very good CMS out there.
<cyanescent> ah... sorry off topic
<troy_s> cyan:  Not another, replace current I think is the idea.
<troy_s> cyan:  Or at least look at possiblity.
<andreasn> I need to go now
<klepas> alright, that is it for me
<klepas> almost 4 AM
<andreasn> any of you guys going to guadec?
<klepas> have a lovely day folks
<klepas> andreasn: if i could afford it :(
<andreasn> klepas, you too
<Madpilot> night klepas
<Who_> nope, but have fun :)
<andreasn> bye all
<cyanescent> REplace AUC-.... hmm, what'll we use it for ? it seems good at getting new people from the forums interested in contributing
<cyanescent> we really need those new people to get into the ML
<troy_s> cyanescent:  I was merely thinking of a place where immutable stuffs exists...
<troy_s> cyanescent:  If you could lock certain wiki pages (aka bersace/klepas/madpilot) it wouldn't be an issue.
<troy_s> perhaps we should look into that instead.
<cyanescent> troy_s: ah I see your point. .. Can't we do something about that on the current wiki ?
<cyanescent> ditto
<Who_> I don't thinik the wiki is a good place for people to submit artwork
<cyanescent> sorry
<troy_s> Who_:  If we had an incoming, i think it might be ok.
<Madpilot> access control is doable w/ the new version of MoinMoin, apparently - wiki.u.c hasn't upgraded yet
<troy_s> Who_:  Assuming we can limit the submissions to strict guidelines.
<cyanescent> Madpilot: someone shoudl get on their case then
<troy_s> madpilot:  That would solve all.
<cyanescent> hehe
<troy_s> Henrik Omma is the guy.
<Who_> I think a structure more like auc where people can comment on te work of others is great - everyone loves feednback!
<Madpilot> Henrik is it, and he's insanely busy from all reports :)
<troy_s> Who_:  Yes, and a wiki allows for that too.
<Who_> but not in the same organised way that gnome-look, for example does
<Madpilot> also - the ongoing 'getting the forum people involved' problem - that's an issue all through Ubuntu, not just artteam's
<cyanescent> I'm pretty sure gnome-look gets a lot more traffic than AUC
<troy_s> who_:  agree... but perhaps Neil is correct...
<Who_> cyanescent: for sure!
<troy_s> simplicity might be a great place to start -- limit our tools to the three
<troy_s> adn build out as need arises...
<troy_s> as in, mailing list, launchpad, wiki
<cyanescent> If we integrate the wiki and AUC then we can get more people interested
<Who_> can we do that?
<troy_s> all of our needs are accomodated there no?
<troy_s> cyanescent:  I believe klepas and such are going to deal with a post at AUC
<troy_s> i would, but i don't know the means behind the mysql db.
<Madpilot> there's already a forum for Ubuntu Art - we should get a sticky post there about this team
<troy_s> and my shell access only permits that sort of thing.
<Who_> I thinkn bringing in huge numbers of people to the artwork team wiki is a sure fire recipe for disorganisation!
<troy_s> Madpilot:  2nd that.
<cyanescent> troy_s: that's a start... but we can lay plans to move one ontop of the other
<troy_s> who_:  Yes... but not with structure.
<troy_s> who_:  we need folks who can do perhaps only a single icon coloring etc...
<cyanescent> or maybe it's just too much work for now
<troy_s> who_:  but again, structure is the key.
<troy_s> cyanescent:  Yep.  keep it simple.
<Who_> troy_s: yea, it would be fine if we could compell people to stick to any structure. i'm not sure we can on a wiki
<cyanescent> Who_: Once we have the wiki properly documented, you can really get random artists doing a good job
<troy_s> agree 100 with neil on that.
<Who_> :) I'll watch and learn this release cycle then
<troy_s> proper structure and documentation.
<Who_> (not to for artwork - for wiki structre...)
<troy_s> well i agree with you who, the underlying manifesto/structure needs to be locked:  that's a no brainer
<troy_s> who:  all i am suggesting is that if we expand too many tools that do the same sorts of things, then we end up with neglected information channels.
<Who_> it's just gnome-look.org gets around 4 or 5 ubuntu based submissions a day - can a wiki accomodate that?
<troy_s> No.  But only 'on topic' submissions I am speaking of.
<troy_s> As in "we are currently seeking submissions for xxx.  Please submit a greyscale 256 color image of your pencil based sketches at 640x480.
<Who_> troy_s: yea, I agree that too many tools is really not great... so keeping to just three works for me for now :)
<troy_s> with me?
<Who_> troy_s: yea, wiki can work well for that
<troy_s> it makes indexing and sorting far superior... further with a slush incoming dir, et and pas / mad can manage.
<troy_s> if it goes EVERYEWHERE, its a nightmare.
<Who_> but I have a feeling we will 'catch' more artists if we allowed them to submit whatever they wanted when they wanted, and held 'competitions' for individual things...
<troy_s> yeah, that idea of harvesting... pretty sure we can contact many on gnome-look easily.
<Who_> because it is harder for a community to develop around such highly targetted submission
<Who_> s
<Madpilot> Who_, the wiki could easily handle 4-5 submissions of anything a day - check RecentChanges sometime to see how busy it is currently
<cyanescent> Who_: yes, but quality is a big thing with art
<troy_s> Who:  Yes, but for what we need, we need specific components to finish Ubuntu's look / feel off.  So that is just the way it goes.
<Madpilot> Who_, I also agree 100% on 'catching' artists & interested folks
<Who_> okay :) I feel like I agree with you all on most things and am left arguing more for the sake if it now! bad habbit
<cyanescent> we can't just have rubbish to put into ubuntu
<troy_s> Who:  Submitting is one thing, but you really need to work on prototypes with different compositions, hues, etc... then polish a given choice (meaning the whole team)
<troy_s> cyanescent:  2nd!
<troy_s> Who_:  Lol.
<troy_s> Who_:  Devil's advocate is healthy.
<troy_s> i encourage conflict in most creative areas, but you need to be mature enough to know when it is just destructive.  I don't think yours was at all.
<Who_> troy_s: agreed, but like I said, not as organic as auc could be
<Who_> yea, ok. but I'll stop here - we seem to be at a good conlusion point :)
<troy_s> i think harvesting is great for ideas though
<Madpilot> "We'll accept anything, but we're *really* looking for <foo>" is better and friendlier than "Sorry, this week we're *only* accepting stuff related to <something specific> - come back next week."
<troy_s> great starting point to get our wallpaper directions, splashes, etc.
<troy_s> Mad:  I was thinking more about specs with attached wiki -- everything develops in unison with deadlines stated.
<Who_> yea, we can just harvest gnome-look.org
<troy_s> Mad:  Via launchpad etc.
<cyanescent> troy_s : miksikma wanted his ubuntu website posts on the ML to be put up on Launchpad -- is it relevant ?
<Who_> however, perhaps as it is not proprietry we should consider suggesting using art.gnome.org as 'field' to 'harvest' from (oh dear :P)
<cyanescent> Not sure if we're responsible for that area.... so
<cyanescent> wanted to find out from a "higher" authority
<cyanescent> hehe
<troy_s> i am not higher.
<troy_s> but i think you all can make up your minds on it.
<cyanescent> ok, will put it up then
<Who_> I think they can go there but I think perhaps it will not make much difference to what happens
<troy_s> I think the specs need to be decided... Some will be struck
<Who_> a mail to Henrik could be more fruitful...
<troy_s> If they are all there, we can post to the mailing list with polls, then be done with it once and for all.
<troy_s> with me?
<troy_s> Henrik is damn busy -- we need to pick up slack.
<cyanescent> ah... makes sense
<troy_s> And, to make matters more bonkers, he is handicapped -- so I can't imagine how much effort doing Ubuntu takes.
<Who_> troy_s: true. Maybe then some code to Henrik?
<troy_s> Who:  Regarding what?
<Who_> that he is very busy
<troy_s> Code for what sorry?
<Who_> what I mean is - if we want the website to look different then the person who can do it is Henrik, if Henrik is busy and can't do it then our only way of getting it to look different is to submit some html, css, whatever is needed so he doesn't have to write it, then he can choose what to do
<Who_> that isn't very clear, but I think you can get the jist - Henrik is the only one who can _change_ the look of the site
<troy_s> If people have problems with the look and feel of the website, they should feel free to submit... but until some structure is given for submitting (as in what henrik needs etc) i don't know how effective it will be.
<troy_s> I would say that once we eat a lot of what is on our plate, we can assume greater roles in other areas...
<Who_> yea, totally agree!
<troy_s> Henrik tends to go with what is out there.. .meaning if we get on line with the cd sleeves etc, he will automatically make the default website look accordingly (as you can tell now)
<Who_> that's what I was trying to say in the meeting
<troy_s> which is terrific.
<cyanescent> When we get our commander in chief or whatever hes called, he'll be able to email henrik with authority on the matter
<troy_s> well then i would say we have a meeting of minds on that sort of thing :)
<Who_> :)
<troy_s> henrik is amazingly responsive... try him in person.  This is all about relationshipt.
<troy_s> ships even.
<Who_> and with that I will leave! I'm not even on my own PC and am visiting friends!
<Who_> (very understanding friends :P)
<Who_> yea, I found him very responsive....
<troy_s> Thanks for trying to make it... we are all damn busy unfortunately.
<Who_> yea! I'm not trying to say my circumstance is exceptional! hell, my life is not realy that busy at all this year (gap year with 12 month contract)
<Who_> talk to you all soon
<Who_> bye
<cyanescent> bye Who_
<troy_s> cyan, yea i think i'll setup polls on them all once you have them itemized.
<troy_s> could take hours, but worth it...
<cyanescent> I was actually hoping some of that would have been decided by the meeting, instead of the chat on hierarchy and communication
<troy_s> cyan:  We sort of did... Launchpad is the place.
<troy_s> cyan:  Which means that once we have them there, we can mailing list for approval, then poll for our finite targets. That is about 1000x more structurally sound than the process has been up to this point.
<cyanescent> I agree.
<cyanescent> It will also look very different once we have a hierarchy
<cyanescent> which will be i guess in 2 weeks
<troy_s> Once we have targets, we can then work on the actual design part -- motifs, thematics, etc.
<troy_s> then work to mock ups with compositional variants
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> i would say one week
<troy_s> paris is the starting point.
<troy_s> cyan, if you can keep up your launchpad use, i am pretty sure the rest of the folks would nominate you to admin if we need.
<troy_s> launchpad knoweldge needs to expand.
<troy_s> for everyone to use it effectively.
<cyanescent> that would be nice =) ... not sure they'd agree I'vebeen around long enough
<troy_s> cyan:  realistically, this is a clean slate.
<troy_s> cyan:  trying to build on what we have (human, etc)
<troy_s> cyan:  and documentation etc...
<troy_s> the rest can be sorted bout by chatting with sabdfl for exact details on a given particular area to make sure he blesses it papally.
<cyanescent> well it seems human is on someone else... --- does the outcontractor actually post on the ML ?
<troy_s> /tell cyanescent If the truth be noted, I suggested much of this two months ago in the design doc, but no one bothers to read the stuff that other's do.  That's why i very much appreciated your work.
<troy_s> laf.
<troy_s> there you go.
<cyanescent> thanks... you have blessed me much =)
<troy_s> transparency is key
<troy_s> we can't have everyone factioning.
<troy_s> we need to keep to our goal.s
<cyanescent> afterall factioning destroyed the romans
<cyanescent> hehe
<troy_s> that was my main issue with irc.
<troy_s> it gets to be a little un-democratic.
<cyanescent> right it seems everything has petered out
<cyanescent> yes very
<cyanescent> I don't remember using IRC except when I was 12
<cyanescent> I have an unfamiliar Italian keyb too .-/
<cyanescent> see waht I mean
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> /tell cyanescent don't tell anyone you are italian.
<Madpilot> there's no such thing as a perfect communication solution; IRC is better than some
<troy_s> i agree.
<troy_s> it works wonders for trying to brainstorm certainly.
<troy_s> hey mad, do you think you can do that wiki stuffs?
<cyanescent> not italian... I am luxembourgish -- my main laptop is broke
<troy_s> laf.
<cyanescent> guess that's worse heh
<troy_s> keyboards scare me.
<Madpilot> troy_s, which wiki stuff?
<troy_s> the restructuring... klepas and bersace point it, but i said that you showed some interest.
<Madpilot> to be honest, I'm happy to leave the wiki alone - random restructuring with no actual content to move around is fairly pointless
<troy_s> Right now, the content is primarily how to get involved, with outlines for posting to the mailing list.
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> It will grow, but without having some flow, the growth is like a weed.
<Madpilot> I've always been inclined to let these things grow with minimal structure, and prune as it gets larger. That's why all this endless fussing with our wiki pages has been bugging me
<troy_s> I tend to agree, but the wiki was so dismal that no one knew where to go for information.  At least that has changed etc.
<troy_s> I think the idea is to prune it down to the bare minimum etc.
<troy_s> With template based additions.
<Madpilot> yes - like you said, "how to get involved" and "how to contact the ML/IRC etc" is good. The rest came come as the content justifies it
<troy_s> Actually, I suppose we are going to need a subsection for Launchpad links, because Launchpad requires wiki entries for each spec.
<Madpilot> yes
<troy_s> cyanescent:  You can't mirror links can you on launchpad -- I think i tried it.
<cyanescent> well... yes with a bit of a hack
<cyanescent> we have most of them pointing to the archives
<cyanescent> if there's a duplicate, I just add a ?subject=somehtingorrather
<cyanescent> to the end, and it seems to work
<troy_s> When you have done your effort, do you think you could update that Launchpad Howto at the wiki with any more information you can glean?
<troy_s> Ahh... and the html still parses effectively?
<cyanescent> sure...
<troy_s> Clever.
<troy_s> Very clever.
<cyanescent> yepo
<troy_s> Frank's document is very good... hopefully we can bang it out further in Paris.
<troy_s> I don't think it got wiki'd yet... I should email frank.
<adamant1988> ello all
<troy_s> greetings
<adamant1988> troy I finally got my pattern to work ^_^
<troy_s> nice!
<adamant1988> it turns out there was a script fu option for it
<troy_s> adamant:  i was going to write you a script that would automate that open window collapse layers thing for a hotkey so you could do a temp layers adjustement.
<troy_s> adamant:  awsome.
<adamant1988> yeah you want to see what I made?
<troy_s> the scripts in gimp are damn powerful.
<troy_s> sure... you have it on deviant?
<adamant1988> no I'm not sure if I can legally post it
<adamant1988> I used the ippimail logo.
<troy_s> hrm... you have a private site?  or gnome-look post?
<troy_s> makes it eas.
<troy_s> easy even.
<adamant1988> I have an image shack that I use
<adamant1988> if it's an issue I can take it down
<adamant1988> no biggie
<troy_s> give me a link.
<adamant1988> but DA could kick me off for it, I will in a minute it ahs to load
<adamant1988> it's not like my other stuff though
<adamant1988> http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6318/ippimail9ez.jpg
<troy_s> has those raster issues again
<troy_s> you need to try to svg a raster image
<troy_s> so that it can scale better for your needs.
<adamant1988> =\
<adamant1988> yeah.. it'd be nice if I could do all that in inkscape
<troy_s> i think gimp can do it, inkscape certainly can
<troy_s> but make sure your resolution is sufficient when you do it... otherwise it will pixelize
<adamant1988> yeah I'm doing them in 1600x1200
<adamant1988> what's happening is that I'm having to save them to a lower quality than I would normally be able to...
<adamant1988> because the limit is 1.5 megs on Imageshack and 1.0 megs on photobucket
<troy_s> its the uprezing that is killing you
<troy_s> of the underlying image
<troy_s> the hand for example, is rather pixelated... rastered.
<adamant1988> oh the logo
<troy_s> yes.
<adamant1988> I did the logo in inkscape with the bmp tracer
<adamant1988> but I agree.. the logo looks really bad...
<troy_s> i think if you up-ressed the logo using a basic scale, then trace
<troy_s> it might be better...
<troy_s> using some sort of cubic upres etc.
<adamant1988> Maybe.. idk.. I was just in the mood to try a pattern bg/
<troy_s> pattern worked for you though... glad you got it added.
<troy_s> did the docs help?
<adamant1988> didn't read them lol
<adamant1988> I found the answer by accident.
<viper550> Hello
<Madpilot> hi viper550
<viper550> I'll begin making new cursors for Ubuntu
<viper550> My idea: big and friendly! I'll use 32x32 instead of whatever they use now
<Madpilot> gah! Invasion of the Giant Cursors!
<viper550> Or, I'll just use that size on Inkscape, then I'll scale them down
<viper550> What type of edge would look better? Rounded or straight?
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-06-18
<lapo> hi
<Drom> hi
<Drom> is there someone from ubuntu art team who can do changes on art.ubuntu.com?
<Drom> ok, I'll leave a message :)
<Drom> I'm from Gnome-art team, I want ask you for a little change on ubuntu-art latest news
<Drom> please, leave note that art.gnome.org do not accept any distro specific artworks, I hade to refuse several themes today
<Drom> art.gnome.org tryes to be distro independent...
<Drom> thanks
<Madpilot> Drom, what makes a theme distro-dependant? There's lots of stuff w/ the Ubuntu logo/colours on art.gnome.org already, isn't there?
<Drom> Madpilot: mostly logos
<Drom> Madpilot: i think there is no distro specific items on a.g.o
<Drom> *are
<Madpilot> ah - I use gnome-look.org more myself, but I thought ago did have distro "specific" wallpapers & such too
<Drom> Madpilot: no distro specific items as far a I know
<Drom> maybe some old stuff
<Madpilot> OK
<Madpilot> we're trying to get art.u.c moving again - it's been neglected a bit - so this might be the prod we need :)
<Drom> you should update to latest system :), thos and benzea did several good features
<coz_> hello all
<coz_> any edgy artwork being done yet?
<klepas_Zzz> w've just had a meeting
<coz_> klepas_Zzz, about the art work?
<klepas_Zzz> the minutes will be available in summary within the next 2 hrs
<klepas_Zzz> yes
<coz_> klepas, i would like to contribute to the art work ..is there any particular direction the team has decided on
<klepas> we're organising ourselves and then we intend to get some work done
<klepas> we're going to re-organise the wiki (ie. please don't make large additions/changes)
<klepas> and within the next two weeks an artist in chief will be decided per resume basis
<klepas> art leaders, one tier below that will probably be chosen from the chief people working on the individual community themes
<coz_> klepas,  so will it be possible to show artwork created to the team before I post on the forums
<klepas> we intend to cut down the traffic on the ML a lot
<klepas> there is too much on it at the moment
<klepas> coz_: right now adding new work is distracting and leads off topic
<klepas> at least over the ML and the wiki
<klepas> if you have some work show it off here for the moment
<klepas> but once we've gotten organised and we identify the specific themes and such we need to do, and prioritise, yea definitely
<coz_> klepas, ok i can come back within the next week or two to check when it would be appropirate to show the work. I don't want to post it on ubuntuforums until you people have had a chnce to view it
<coz_> klepas,  thanks
<klepas> no worries
<klepas> troy_s: ping
<burnfire> quit
<lapo> hi
<jeldert> hi guys, anyone around?
<msikma> Hi
<jeldert> I have a Windows theme which I'd like to use on Ubuntu, is that possible?
<jeldert> I think it's not :(
<Drom|zZz> it is not possible
<jeldert> and is there an easy way to create something myself? I found http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes but I prefer something graphical
<jeldert> windowborder and some controls are enough for me
<viper550> Hello
<klepas> moin
<viper550> Hey, Jimmac is in here, he designed the cursors that Linux distros commonly use now!
<klepas> :)
<msikma> He designed a whole lot more than just that.
<msikma> jeldert: also, that's impossible, sorry. Someone would have to port that theme.
<viper550> I know that, but his cursors are also good too!
<viper550> Even better, I even thought his new Gilouche theme for SUSE 10.1 was so simliar to Compiz's defaults, that I ported it to Metacity with Gilouche as the base!
<msikma> Yeah, his cursors are good. I don't see why there's a request to create new ones. How would we make new cursors differently from the ones that we already have? It's not something you can "orangify" (and making everything orange for the sake of it being orange isn't really a good plan either!)
<viper550> Can we do DCC sending through here?
<viper550> I've made new cursors differently, and they look pretty good. Would anyone like the raw SVG and PNG files?
<msikma> Yeah, this isn't a no-DCC network :)
<msikma> I don't mind it if you send them to me, although I don't think that one SVG you sent to the mailing list is a very appropriate general-purpose icon.
<viper550> I made some adjustments over here...
<msikma> If you'd like me to crit them, I'd like to see the PNG files.
<msikma> You can also mail them to me. Probably easier.
<msikma> DCC seems to not be very trustworthy :)
<viper550> why?
<viper550> We're both on Linux
<msikma> DCC sending sometimes fails when on faulty router settings. I'm behind two routers of which one is a little too restrictive.
<msikma> It doesn't have anything to do with whether you're on Linux or not.
<msikma> I'm also currently not on Linux, I'm on Windows so I can use Photoshop.
<viper550> oh...
* viper550 aborts
<msikma> But if you send them to the mailing list, I'll crit them if you like.
<viper550> I'll send the updated version to the mailing list
<viper550> Sent...
<msikma> I'll check it in a second.
<viper550> For the busy cursor, it will be inspired by jimmac's Tango spinner design
<coz_> morning all
<msikma> Okay, I sent a mail, viper550
<msikma> Hi coz_
<coz_> msikma, hello guy
<viper550> Anyone here good with XFCE theming?
<coz_> viper550, not me, sorry guy
<msikma> I wish. I still need to learn how exactly to build a theme, because that's one thing I want to start being involved with...
<msikma> Well, I'm going back to photochopping.
* viper550 gets stuff he needs to install XFCE 4.4 with
<viper550> Is there a xubuntu-artwork here?
<coz_> viper550, what type of things are you looking for
<viper550> Never mind, just trying to get XFCE 4.4 working on my FC5 box
<klepas> coz_: you saw the message on AUC? :)
<coz_> klepas, sorry no !!!!
<klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com
<klepas> concering what you consulted me on before :)
<klepas> more formal
<viper550> I meant to say, if Xubuntu is XFCE based, I bet there are XFCE themers there!
<coz_> klepas, thanks I appreciate it
<klepas> no worries
<klepas> there will be a slight change to that announcement
<klepas> as art.gnome.org does not accept distribution specific artwork (although it may have in the past)
<viper550> www.gnome-look.org (I even uploaded a package of Dapper artwork there!)
<klepas> well no longer
<lapo> hi viper550, you did the usplash theme, right?
<klepas> msikma, i believe, lapo :)
<viper550> No, I did however compete for the title though...only got upstaged by an orange version of 5.10's artwork
<lapo> ah ok
<viper550> I still think mine is better, everyone on the mailing list liked it...
<viper550> Lapo, I'll be happy to send you over DCC my Usplash artwork idea that got rejected by many votes
<lapo> klepas: just a clarification about the meeting, it's not clear for me how the human themes get in the artwork theme picture
<coz_> viper550, where did you post it so that it had a vote in the first place
<lapo> viper550: I think I can't accept dcc, sorry, if you upload theme somewhere would be better
<lapo> of by mail calamandrei at gmail dot com
<lapo> s/of/or/
<lapo> klepas: ugh, I mean artwork *team* not theme, sorry :-)
<klepas> could you elaborate?
<msikma> Yeah, I did that usplash, by the way.
<lapo> klepas: the artwork team will not control the human stuff right?
<msikma> Which reminds me, I need to make a mock-up of what I believe should be the next one.
<msikma> Also, viper550, I didn't really like yours for two reasons. One was that it wasn't exactly in the center of the image, and the other is that the gradient was off-center as well. I just think it was a nice idea, but a little shoddy. Some polish would have given it a better chance during the vote.
<lapo> nice work on the usplash
<msikma> Afterall, yours didn't have as many colors as mine (with the glow and all) so you could have used that to make the gradient look extra good.
<bersace> Hello everybody
<viper550> But, I could only use 11 colors or something like that because I needed extra pallete spots for the colors of everything else on screen to show up!
<coz_> are any of the splashes/desktop picks that did not make it , avaiable for viewing
<bersace> i'm very happy to see a wiki squad born
<bersace> and to take part with it
<lapo> btw guys all the buntus need to have something in common, I'm not saying they need to look the same, but for example usplash need to be similar
<bersace> :)
<lapo> atm kubuntu is kinda different
<msikma> coz: yeah, there's an old wiki page for it.
<msikma> I made a Kubuntu splash in the same style, too, but it was reverted because it didn't adhere to their style guide, which is too bad. I should have done more research, since it was already too late for any further changes.
<msikma> The usplash could have had 16 colors. Six of those colors are reserved (background, text color, "ok" color, "fail" color, progress bar background color, progress bar foreground color). But the reserved colors could also be used in the actual image.
<msikma> Seems to be difficult to find that old usplash page...
<lapo> I think that would be better to ditch the text from the next uspalsh
<lapo> or at least use a better font, like the one used in the livecd "bootmanager"
<msikma> Yeah, me too.
<msikma> I did make a new font for it. It needs some minor fixes and doesn't have any accents yet.
<lapo> I don't think you'll need accents boot messages are plain english
<lapo> another reason to ditch the text there, no localization
<msikma> I'd rather just remove the text, too, and then use a graphically more interesting progress bar.
<msikma> I once made mock-ups for that with the old usplash design.
<lapo> cool
<msikma> http://omega.avalanchestudios.net/personal/dropbox/usplash/_usplash_misc_6.png
<msikma> Except without the "starting up" text.
<lapo> uhm..
<lapo> I'm not a big fan of the human progrss bar design, but cool
<klepas> lapo: sorry
<klepas> We will be in control of Human, partially
<klepas> Human will be under the direct supervision of Mark and the artist in chief
<lapo> klepas: what does partially mean?
<klepas> hopefully, and Mark has noted this, we will get a chance to put artwork into Edgy
<klepas> we might not be able to decide to change the GDM theme for example
<klepas> might not be up to us
<lapo> that kinda sucks
<klepas> i think this round is our chance to show that the artwork team can get organised, can collaborate and can make some beautiful artwork
<msikma> I'm certain we will be able to get a lot done if only we suggest proper art.
<lapo> will the artist in chief have the "power" to control anything?
<msikma> Maybe we need to fork the design and start building it to end up exactly the way we want it to be and then hope the final version of the default theme incorporates many of such elements.
<klepas> if we prove that this round for the artwork we get to do in Human and through the various other community themes (Outdoors, Tangerine, Tango) we will be able to probably do more work Edgy+
<klepas> lapo: artist in chief will have the power to do a fair bit i would assume
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/edgysuggestion_0_8.png <-- this is what that progress bar would look in Dapper's context.
<msikma> *look like
<lapo> uhm
<klepas> Mark has agreed to describe the role and so forth in a pending email to the ML
<lapo> yep
<msikma> I still don't really know what the conclusion is of that mail I sent about special effects in Ubuntu.
<msikma> One thing which I think is imperative is properly anti-aliased edges of rounded window decorations.
<msikma> That's just a very tiny thing so I'm certain we can get that done exclusively through software rendering.
<lapo> msikma: not possible with the current stuff
<msikma> :(
<klepas> yea, sadly not
<klepas> which is why the 90 degree corners are nicer :)
<msikma> By the time Vista is released, drop shadows will be used in both major proprietary operating systems, and Linux would fall behind in what's essentially a major feature.
<klepas> personally, that is of course
<msikma> lapo: oh, you're talking about the anti-aliased corners not being possible?
<klepas> msikma: there is a reason why metacity does not allow this
<msikma> Or just the drop shadows?
<klepas> and drop shadows
<klepas> because KISS
<lapo> msikma: corners
<msikma> Because no anti-aliased window edges is... well, kind of 1984.
<klepas> metacity runs on low end machines
<klepas> msikma: that is what XGL is for :)
<lapo> msikma: a lot of fancy stuff is possible with compiz and next matacity
<msikma> Cursors also have alpha transparency, and thus anti-aliasing, so I see absolutely zero reason why it's not possible to do software rendering for window corners
<klepas> and XGL kicks Vista's and Mac OS X's graphics atm
<msikma> It likely takes almost zero processing power.
<klepas> not sure of the technicalities of Metacity... you'd have to chat to the devels
<lapo> msikma: probabily, but the current metacity cannot do it
<klepas> but i know it's not possible
<msikma> Well, that's very lame. And old-fashioned.
<klepas> that is what XGL is for
<klepas> msikma: and they could always use kwin :)
<klepas> or KDE for that matter
<msikma> I don't see why we need a completely different program for something so small. I think it should have been done long ago, actually.
<klepas> or... we could use non-rounded corners ;)
<lapo> the next metacity will be more powerfull, and will have more theming possibilities
<msikma> Why limit ourselves because of such a stupidly tiny thing?
<klepas> msikma: file a bug against Metacity
<msikma> I will. I'll go figure out where to do that right now. Or should I file it in Ubuntu?
<lapo> msikma: because we are not developers :-)
<klepas> bugs.gnome.org, iirc
<klepas> metacity
<klepas> that is much higher upstream
<klepas> msikma: sorry, bugzilla.gnome.org
<msikma> It redirects there.
<klepas> :)
<msikma> Well, thanks. I'll submit it.
<klepas> keep us posted :)
<klepas> although slightly OT, what do you folks think of this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344542
<msikma> I still think it's a little silly that such a thing just isn't possible to hack in.
<lapo> I really hope for mark to see the light and adopt tango style for human
<msikma> That's another thing we should reason for.
<lapo> gimp is getting tangoified
<klepas> lapo: i have my dreams... and also my doubts...
<lapo> gnome icon theme as well
<klepas> Mark has openly stated he does not like Tango all that much
<msikma> Tangerine is what Edgy should use. Tangerine looks better than Human and is completely compatible with all icons that are to be made in the future, since everything is likely to go Tango in the future.
<lapo> klepas: I think mark don't know exactly what tango is
<lapo> msikma: thanks :-)
<klepas> mayhaps
<klepas> yea, Tangerine is awesome
<klepas> but i doubt Mark, or the CC for that matter would back down from their decisions at this point
<klepas> maybe much further down the track
<klepas> they've invested a lot in Human
<msikma> I see no reason to continue using an inferior icon set.
<klepas> and now it's in a LTS release...
<msikma> Although Tangerine is not without its bad things, too.
<feihung> Is there a way change openoffice icon/toolbar :0)
<lapo> klepas: jimmac is doing a great work on openoffice, so it will be have tango style icons soon (upstream even)
<klepas> that sounds great
<msikma> For one thing, I despise the fact that _everything_ needs to be orange.
<lapo> klepas: gnome icon theme will be tango style
<msikma> Not _everything_ needs to be orange, guys! By toning it down a little, the icons that ARE orange will have much more of an impact.
<lapo> scribus is there already
<lapo> msikma: right
<klepas> well i shall be off
<lapo> msikma: I think I remove some of the orangified icons from tangerine
<klepas> need the sleep
<klepas> full day of courses tomorrow, well today actually... :)
<lapo> good "night" klepas
<msikma> I think that the "refresh" button is pretty poor.
<lapo> msikma: my fault
<klepas> cheers :)
<klepas> msikma: ditto
<msikma> You know, the thing that bothers me about Human the most is the icon used for "cancel".
<klepas> lol :)
<msikma> It's a gigantic... knob of some sort.
<msikma> With a huge X in it.
<klepas_Zzz> it screams "ERROR!"
<klepas_Zzz> to me
<klepas_Zzz> ah well
<klepas_Zzz> night
<msikma> Night
<lapo> msikma: there are problems with how gtk handles those icons btw
<msikma> Yeah, that too. I remember reading about it.
<lapo> yep, the metaphor there is pretty poor btw
<lapo> what andreasn did for tangerine is better actually
<lapo> even if not perfect yet
<msikma> I prefer that simple black x.
<lapo> cancel is not close
<msikma> There are some parts of a system where you just shouldn't try too hard, I believe.
<lapo> cancel is more like undo
<msikma> Cancel is close in 99% of the windows. Really, when you press cancel, you usually close a window and/or stop an action from happening.
<msikma> It's not undo because you're cancelling an action before it's done.
<msikma> Man, this Gnome Bugzilla e-mail is taking forever to send.
<msikma> There we go: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345249
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-11
<darkmatter> nothlit: I'm a flippin gtk genius!!! :D
<darkmatter> all that crap the experts say cant be done.. like individual text colours on tabs etc that are seperate from the rest of the text colours... it can be done!
<darkmatter> I just defined all colours for the various widgets independently!
<darkmatter> w00t!
<darkmatter> take that you bloody themers!
<darkmatter> I just fixed every single bug in gtk!!! took 200 lines of code and a multitude of rc files, but its ALL fixed
<darkmatter> except for cranky app stuff
<darkmatter> but that can be fixed with sub-themes in the main folder
<darkmatter> :D:D:D
<nothlit> WOOT!
<nothlit> everything except that stupid nautilus pathbar! :D
<gerfuls> hello!
<gerfuls> anyone?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-12
<opticyclic> this channel seems to prevent me from switching tabs in Pidgin!
<opticyclic> weird stuff!
<nothlit> eh
<nothlit> irc has no pidgin tab prevention properties lol =P
<opticyclic> will kopete be available for windows when KDE4 comes out?
<opticyclic> might solve all my problems :)
<opticyclic> I feel that the default Kubuntu theme  is too pale
<opticyclic> http://developer.kde.org/~danimo/screenies/kdm_input.png
<opticyclic> Something bolder would impress new users more e.g. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/KDM-Xnest.jpg/400px-KDM-Xnest.jpg
<nothlit> i'd suggest starting a discussion on the mailing list then
<opticyclic> whats the address?
<nothlit> tbh, it doesn't seem pale at all to me
<nothlit> lists.ubuntu.com
<opticyclic> compare it to the bottom swoosh in this image, it makes it look pale now don't you think? http://frode.kde.no/dull/skjermbilete4.png
<nothlit> maybe not as 'deep' but certainly, the background doesn't seem unsaturated or anything
<alefteris> hi all. is there any freely available gallery of svg images/cliparts?
<nothlit> yes
<nothlit> openclipart.org
<nothlit> dunno if its down atm or not
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-13
<darkmatter> klepas: ping
<darkmatter> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Glory-Simplex?content=60326
<darkmatter> get it while its hot
<nothlit> w00t
<Madpilot> darkmatter, nice - I wish you hadn't gone with making all three window management buttons identical, though (the three in the top right of most windows)
<nothlit> i don't think hes worked on the metacity yet?
<darkmatter> nope.. I havent
<darkmatter> my metacity lives on paper atm
<Madpilot> ah, OK
<darkmatter> thats blendish
<darkmatter> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Blendish?content=27002
<darkmatter> looked good in the screenies :P
<Madpilot> how does it look paired with a metacity theme that does proper window controls?
<darkmatter> nothlit, its the older version... the new on (the WIP) has some pretty snazzy code going in :)
<darkmatter> Madpilot: looks good with most mcity deco's
<nothlit> wow its a lot brighter in person lol
<darkmatter> hehe
<darkmatter> wait till the WIP is done.. lots of app specifics
<darkmatter> needs a lot more work and a lot of debugging
<darkmatter> maybe a dev team... or two
<nothlit> wow the tooltips are great =D
<darkmatter> :)
<darkmatter> the roundish corners were a pain... especially considering the lack of transparency in gtk
<nothlit> darkmatter: the expanded dropdown list text padding is big compared to the rest
<darkmatter> yeah.. it has to do with the exported setting (some of the rc stuff is pulled from the dev version).. still needs tweaking
<nothlit> hmm the text seems bottom shifted in the task bar, and the selected task is a little difficult to distinguish
<darkmatter> yeah... *alpha* :P
<darkmatter> also the new mail thing in evo looks odd
<nothlit> darkmatter: oh lol, should i stop with the bug reports then? =p
<darkmatter> nah.. bug reports are good
<darkmatter> just stating the obvious
<darkmatter> nothlit: I'll do an update later today... drop the value on the panel text a bit to darken that blue, etc
<nothlit> darkmatter: cool :)
<darkmatter> try to finish balancing the widgets too... but most my times being spent on the newer, more colourful version
<darkmatter> it a true metatheme.. has application subfolder by name... for the moment will need manual editing of launchers with alacarte
<nothlit> colourful? what direction are you heading with it?
<darkmatter> but I want to use zenity or something and write a config app tha'll automate that garbage
<nothlit> gtkdialog is pretty nifty if you want something more powerful
<nothlit> it can even use glade
<nothlit> i used it to make a bash+gnutils powered wifi applet for fluxbuntu :D
<darkmatter> nothlit: colurful in terms of jusat the basic metaphor of stop/go (for active text, etc in apps like banshee)
<darkmatter> I also want to attempt to parse text labels once I start on the engine
<nothlit> darkmatter: i hope you'll keep it subtle :)
<darkmatter> key word: attempt
<darkmatter> just to have slight oulines on buttons for yes/no, ok/cancel, etc
<darkmatter> nothing to bright.. softish.. but the green/red stop/go, yes/no metaphor (just a though atm
<darkmatter> but yeah.. keeping it light
<darkmatter> subtle.. themes not going into crazyville
<nothlit> that sounds pretty nice, outline? inner glow? subtle colouration?
<darkmatter> yup.. maybe an inner glow.. just inside the outer perimeter
<nothlit> if it doesn't get too crazy or complicated, it'd be interesting to use it as another light source to display/play with the form
<darkmatter> if it'll work
<darkmatter> but I am going to do subtle glows in several areas.. prelight in menus... havered buttons (tried with pixmaps... but had to enlarge the alpha margins.. left way to much outer padding)
<darkmatter> but in engine will be much easier
<darkmatter> only need about 3 pixels
<darkmatter> *hovered
<darkmatter> nothlit: the effect (glow) will be approximately as subtle as the grad on the prelight menuitem http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=538501546&size=o
<darkmatter> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=538501544&size=o
<darkmatter> I need to pastel the text slightly.. to saturated atm.. and the orange should be more rust/redish.. but thats the general *colourful* metaphore I'm after
<darkmatter> plus the multiple shades, and some text effects in engine (got pointers on #clearlooks on gimpnet a while back.. you can do etching, shadows, glows around text, etc)
<nothlit> wow, sounds pretty exciting
<darkmatter> just gives you more light sources to play with
<darkmatter> it clearlooks blackrock (?) I believe the branch I was pointed to is called
<darkmatter> its pretty neat
<darkmatter> so the entire idea is to do like the scrollbars.. keep the theme uber clean and rely on special effects for the bling ;)
<darkmatter> nothlit: the mcity will be colour blended, 32pix titlebar, borderless, all 4 corners rounded.. thinking of going "_^X" for the glyphs
<nothlit> darkmatter: borderless? wouldnt having a container, even if it doesn't appear to have a border help you establish the form of your theme?
<darkmatter> nothlit: lol... thats what I meant... its only like one pixel or so. the reason why is with the design of the toolbars/menubars (not yet implemented)an actual visible container is disruptive (plus you cant match the sides to the toolbar/menubar colours)
<darkmatter> its a two-tone thing with the menu/toolbars
<darkmatter> both blue.
<darkmatter> but darker menubar.. upper corners rounded
<darkmatter> tollbars have no corners... bit have a bit of a glowy thing going near the edges
<darkmatter> all soft tones
<darkmatter> w00t!!!! US patent office FTW! http://www.betanews.com/article/US_Patent_Office_to_Try_Open_Source_Approach/1181591652
<nysosym> hi all :)
<nysosym> hi kwwii , how are u? :)
<kwwii> nysosym: good, and you?
<nysosym> fine all the time :)
<kwwii> ;-)
<nysosym> what do u do this time?
<kwwii> I am working on the ubuntu mobile UI
* kwwii is in california at google atm
<nysosym> fine, any results too see, or top secret? :D
<nysosym> kwwii: a crazy german joke: Warum essen Kannibalen so gerne schwangere Frauen? - Ganz einfach: wegen der Kinderberraschung und der Extraportion Milch!
<kwwii> half and half
<kwwii> nysosym: ouch
<nysosym> yes very macabre
<kwwii> brb, gotta restart my desktop
<nysosym> wb kwwii :)
<kwwii> re
<nysosym> a lot to do at moment?
<kwwii> I was thinking about asking everyone to offer up their ideas for gutsy artwork (with the expressed statement that nothing is 100% and nothing is sure to be included)
<kwwii> I had hoped that some community people would create their own themes but it seems that people like criticizing the work of others more than making their own work
<nysosym> yes that's typical... :-/
<kwwii> hehe, yeah
<kwwii> but complaining that they cannot effectively help is also typical
<nysosym> who has u asked for stuff in gutsy?
<nothlit> kwwii: ooh any thoughts then? https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/sketches/ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/CommunityTheme/Collaboration+Progress https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/gutsy/colours/mock_proposed/
<nothlit> =/ the mailing list on the subject completely died when the direction got more concrete
<nothlit> kwwii: does sabdfl have a direction he wants already for the official artwork? or does his influence come from the feedback
<kwwii> I guess I will be leading things a bit more
<kwwii> and for Gutsy I do not think that we will be radically changing things
<kwwii> well, that is poorly expressed
<kwwii> we can do new things, but we still need to keep a definite branding based on what we have had until now somewhat
<kwwii> so...we are not going to radically change colors or such
<kwwii> and as far as a background goes, we need to avoide including too much detail
<kwwii> so like, the colors we use need to fit into the existing colors and branding
<nothlit> hmm not much detail? so more swishes or some nice layered effects?
<kwwii> well, not too many sharp lines, etc
<nysosym> ,w
<nysosym> kwwii: and photos from african places?
<nysosym> with ubuntu colors :D
<kwwii> probably a bad idea
<nysosym> or some vektor works
<kwwii> no pics of things one can recognize
<kwwii> everyone tends to like doing african-like things but ubuntu is much more than just africa
<nothlit> i don't think ubuntu has a distinct identity yet beyond corporate branding or vague references to ^
<kwwii> well, the corporate branding is very important
<nysosym> sure but the name comes from an african word, the colors match with african very well. Mark loves South Afrika. I think the association with africa is consequent
<kwwii> but it is not a good idea art-wise
<nothlit> no? abstracted macros could do a lot
<kwwii> I think that going back to something like we had in breezy and before is the best idea at this time
<kwwii> anything too specific is bad
<nysosym> hmm ok, but i think nice brown mountains with elefants in vektor art would be nice. All with the current ubuntu color palette.
<nysosym> Smooth or hard curves/lines looks good, but these a little bit outdated
<kwwii> I know that mark will veto anything with a defnite africa look
<nysosym> people wanna have a nice collection of realistic places, where they can associate some emotions
<kwwii> what about people who do not like africa or africa-like stuff
<kwwii> but the fact that places can be associated with emotions is exactly what we want to avoid
<nothlit> how can people not like a whole continent of variety
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> believe me, it is that way
<nysosym> for example the macro of leaves in leopard or vista, i know so many people who love this picture. Nothing specific but very interesting, descent, but u can (i've u want) have a look to many details like rain-drops
<kwwii> but that is not default
<kwwii> what we use as defualt and what we include are two different subjects
<nysosym> i think the goal should be, that anyone see a screenshot of ubuntu and he should think "Yes, that's ubuntu".
<kwwii> definitely
<nothlit> whats wrong with detail, i think f7 proves without a doubt that distinctive objects can work for a default
<nysosym> Like the example of the leave macro it's not default, but the most people associatie this picture with vista. Thats the reason why the devs are laughing at WWDC 07, as steve show the screen of Leopard.
<kwwii> nothlit: nothing wrong with the right kind of detail :-)
<kwwii> nysosym: we are only discussing the default here though :-)
<kwwii> as far as I am concerned if people would create themes I would see to it that they are included
<kwwii> I did not write the automaticeArtworkBuilder wiki page for nothing :-)
<nysosym> :)
<nothlit> kwwii: whats the limits on detail, just basically 3d or 2d loops/swirls etc?
<nysosym> i understand, that any detail is okay, only limits are ubuntu colors and a neutral motive
<kwwii> nothlit: no definite limit in that sense
<kwwii> it just has to be easy and simple enough for everyone to use
<kwwii> and the icons and names underneath need to be readable
<kwwii> the best test is to put a bunch of icons on the desktp and see how busy it looks
<nysosym> http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/46825-1.png
<nysosym> something like this ^^
<kwwii> in that example I would say that the colors are too far from the branding, but not way off...the most critical aspect would be the white lines and and gradients
<kwwii> what color would the text underneath the icons be?
<kwwii> and how well could you read it?
<kwwii> see what I mean?
<nysosym> sure :)
<nysosym> but didn't have gnome a feature that the fontcolor change with the maincolor of the wallpaper?
<kwwii> well, with that wallpaper neither black nor white would work
<kwwii> black would be too dark on the orange and white would be too light on the white
<TheSheep> .oO(xfce just has frames around the icon labels...)
<nysosym> and gnome has a shadow
<nysosym> my favorite style is something like this
<nysosym> http://freenet-homepage.de/adkad/grungeflowers_widescreen.png
<TheSheep> nysosym: mine favorite:
<TheSheep> http://sheep.art.pl/misc/shot.png
<TheSheep> :)
<TheSheep> bah, wrong shot, doesn't show the background \:(
<nysosym> but my example doesn't match very well with many icons
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-14
<TheSheep> nysosym: well, icons on the desktop are evil anyways :)
<nothlit> nysosym: you might like the direction the ubun2 project is going :)
<nysosym> TheSheep: sorry but these kind of style reminds me on win95 day with endles textures as wallpaper :D
* nothlit is personally tired of swishies
<nysosym> nothlit: i know, i'm a member of these group
<nysosym> but my time ist very limited in the last and next months :/
<nothlit> kwwii: icons and text everywhere? or just in the default area
<nysosym> everywhere
<nysosym> i think ^^
<TheSheep> nysosym: refresh, now it's better visible :)
<nysosym> TheSheep: much better :)
<nysosym> the grunge look is very trendy ^^
<nysosym> elegant and stylish
<TheSheep> shame I don't know wherei t comes from
<TheSheep> I fished it out of my web cache
<nysosym> but maybe the grunge look  is to "dusty" for an serios OS
<nysosym> *too
<TheSheep> maybe, but I like the idea -- a natural texture with some small decoration
<TheSheep> it could be carved as well, for example
<nothlit> grunge isn't mainstream enough for something like ubun2
<nothlit> err
<nothlit> ubuntu*
<nothlit> professionals won't want that look
<nysosym> this should also be ok http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flower25jg3.jpg
<nysosym> nothlit: professionals use in order, no wallaper :D
<nysosym> wallpapers are too "kiddy"
<nysosym> and it's eating performance ^^
<nothlit> lol
<nothlit> not computing professionals
<nysosym> i will go to bed
<nysosym> gn8 at all
<nysosym> and have fun at google campus kwwii_ :)
<kwwii_> hehe, thanks
<kwwii_> see you soon
<dilomo> hi everybody
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-15
<Viper550> hi again everyone!
<Phantomgraph> Good eve all, anyone awake?
<nysosym> still alive :D
<Phantomgraph> *smiles* Thanks nysosym. I have a couple of simple questions if you have some time.
<nysosym> sure, what is your problem :)
<nysosym> i will help you, when i can
<Phantomgraph> Oh it's not a problem, so to speak. I'm a part time graphic artist.. and I've a background to add to the comunity as well as somethinf a litle odd, the model I used to render it. It's the Ubuntu logo.
<Phantomgraph> I'm not sure where to post the stuff so it will be the most help to all.
<nysosym> the best way should be the ubuntu-artwork wiki
<nysosym> mom i will search a link
<Phantomgraph> OK, I've looked that over, and I realy don't want to join a ton of lists and stuff for this. Maybe I should just post to the forums. Heck I don't even know if I can include a tarball there with the model in it.
<nysosym> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming?highlight=%28artwork%29
<nysosym> create only a new wiki page, with your name and post it :)
<Phantomgraph> OK, I'll look this part over, I've done a couple of wiki pages, but it's been a LONG time :>
<Phantomgraph> Thanks nysosym!
<nysosym> Phantomgraph: no problem :=
<nysosym> :)
<BinaryCortex> is anyone available?
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-06-17
<coz_> troy_s, you around?
<coz_> is anyone else here in charge of membership
<coz_> anyone here in charge of memebership?
<darkmatter> nothlit: I am teh evil Knomer :O  http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=560661674&size=o
<nothlit> darkmatter: lol i'm confused at the state of the screenshot, the buttons look a little cleaner but your colours are gone and your bar has become blocked in again?
<darkmatter> heh?
<nothlit> the slight colourisation of the text isn't in that one
<nothlit> or the 3d glow of the blue bar in the progress and hilighted menu item
<nothlit> i like the flatness of the disabled buttons, makes it look really clean
<darkmatter> well... its the "Simplex" build of glory... the one that was released that I'm currently using.. the blingier one is still being worked on :)
<nothlit> ahh
<darkmatter> nothlit: and I had a vision for "human" last night... going to be fun pulling off the lighting for that one
<nothlit> btw have you opened inkscape while using glory? the button characteristics feel kinda of imbalanced or odd or something
<darkmatter> its a bit darker than glory.. and with a very slight coffee tint to the overall colour
<darkmatter> a darj kinda amber n petay-shade-of-brown for the glowy bits
<darkmatter> nothlit yup
<nothlit> darkmatter: a human human or a human glory?
<darkmatter> Its a bug with inksacpe and some themes.. theres a fix.. but cant emember off hand
<darkmatter> nothlit A human glory
<darkmatter> kinda dusky.. softer0ish satiny shades
<darkmatter> very ambient lighting effects
<nothlit> sounds incredibly soothing :)
<darkmatter> the look of it (though not the colours) thats floating in da minds eye atm would be the ideal for the whole glory look
<nothlit> yeah dusky would prolly work much better than light tints
<darkmatter> just relaxed and highly artsy at the same time.. soothing/relaxing bling instead of "WOW!!! ITS WEB 2.0!!" bling
<darkmatter> :P
<nothlit> lol
<nothlit> you know people are going to associate pushy/poppy buttons with their idea of 2.0 though :P
<darkmatter> nothlit.. not quite as dark as the toggled button states.. and not a grey like that.. but yeah.. soft, malleable, and slightly earthy colours
<darkmatter> nothlityup
<darkmatter> but the buttons are getting smoothed over too
<darkmatter> similar to the scrollies
<darkmatter> they kinda shimmer a tad much atm ( I think its the secondary grad that does it)
<nothlit> yeah the scrollbars are much more subtle
<nothlit> well the horizontal ones
<darkmatter> nothlit, and something kinda along the lines of oxygen for he icons (but less osx-ish and no blue.. same ambery/humbug-candy(not candied)-brown as the highlights, etc... but for folders
<nothlit> ahh
<nothlit> ubun2 has a really nice folder icon in bzr along those lines
<darkmatter> nothlit yeah... manuevering the moose is an oweful way to draw
<darkmatter> nothlit yeah.. saw them.. very nice
<nothlit> darkmatter: use inkscape ;p
<nothlit> but otherwise masking and layering work painful wonders =p
<darkmatter> nothlityeah.. I use it to an extent.. works better what with all the handholding vector illustrating does.. but still.. teh moose is evil
<nothlit> darkmatter: the buttons hilight is too strong, thats part of the problem
<darkmatter> nothlit the nice thing about inkscape is the 0.001 incremental adjustments to elements
<nothlit> what if you took away the hilight and defined it completely with shadow?
<darkmatter> hmm
<nothlit> i think implied lines would work wonders
<darkmatter> possibly
<nothlit> i find the grid snapping the most useful area in terms of this sort of thing
<nothlit> but the svn controls have degraded, theres no hiding the grid anymore just deleting it
<darkmatter> eeew
<darkmatter> nothlit: once all the gradients are fixed. I'm also doing all lines with fg to alpha fade (like the meny separators).. but for the panel/toolbars/etc. for an almost sculpted feel
<darkmatter> like the ui was made from clay in slight 3D then a blunt needle was lightly drawn across the surface to make the lines
<nothlit> you should make the next image slices from blender lol
<nothlit> get a tablet and use the new sculpt tool
<darkmatter> nothlitI was actually considering that.. rofl
<darkmatter> (blender)
<darkmatter> could probably pull some uber fine texturing with it to get the soft look
<darkmatter> nothlit: If you look at the wallpaper I'm using, the blur on the unfocused areas have a very fine pebbling
<darkmatter> thats kinda what I was considering for a texture on the elements of the ui
<darkmatter> it has a very soothing effect
<nothlit> thats interesting
<nothlit> you'll have more trouble with casts and glows then
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> the problem is in the planning really
<darkmatter> once I can figure out how to work around the little issues it'll be fine
<darkmatter> hmmm.. I wonder if cairo can do effects like that?
<nothlit> doing the texture?
<nothlit> or the lighting
<darkmatter> the texture should be fine.. I can just do an overlay.. but the lighting may be a bit tricky
<darkmatter> nothlit: ewwww.. its back :/ http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/57736436/
<nothlit> darkmatter: wow.
<darkmatter> just when I thought luna was finally dead
<darkmatter> its like a bad dream, isnt it?
<nothlit> i just have no idea why someone would want to try and do that
<nothlit> it was ugly and fisher-price when it <first> came out
<darkmatter> lol
<darkmatter> no shite
<darkmatter> nothlit: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/57661216/ <-- I like that menu highlight.. theme sucks.. but the effects nice
<nothlit> darkmatter: yeah that radiant glow is nice
<nothlit> more spectacular with a darker base unfortunately
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> but as I'm working with ubuntustudio now (theme stuff), may try something similar
<darkmatter> as the defaults pretty dark
<nothlit> darkmatter: so why haven't you just gotten a cheap tablet, or better? its much more affordable in the long term than traditional art supplies :P
<darkmatter> lol.. true
<darkmatter> I'll get once I have cash to spare
<darkmatter> high financial stress on my end
<darkmatter> what with my medical expenses and the cost of raising a special needs child
<darkmatter> nothlit: I I had the finances I want.. my box would make all others hide there /sysinfo in shame :P
<nothlit> lol, if we all had the finances we want gaming and processing would be leaps and bounds beyond what we have today
<nothlit> darkmatter: what sort of medical expenses and needs?
<darkmatter> nothlit: I'm terminally ill, have a lot of meds to buy.. plus teh rheumatoid arthritis is teh sux too
<darkmatter> the boy is severely autistic... that just adds to the "no money to spare' thing
<nothlit> ahhh
<darkmatter> so the whole medical disability thing in general is the issue ;)
<nothlit> does the arthritis affect your choice of medium?
<nothlit> darkmatter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ this is an interesting expansion of the desktop metaphor
* darkmatter looks
<darkmatter> nothlit: ahh yes.. seen that many times before.. several different versions too... the original geatest is from a japanese fellow.. bumptop is the first of the "me too" thingies
<darkmatter> and now theres the mainstream ripoff
<darkmatter> under active devel
<darkmatter> called " Microsoft Surface"
<darkmatter> nothlit: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/49256889/ <-- thats damn near perfectly lit
* darkmatter is in love with the lighting
<nothlit> microsoft surface lol
<nothlit> that technology i've seen myself in the panasonic building
<nothlit> and the ui is very lowfat esque
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> its cool though
<darkmatter> and its all humanly interactive
<nothlit> yeah the top halves of that are quite nice (deviantart)
<nothlit> darkmatter: i have to admit i have a penchant for that sort of pen based computing
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> nothlit, but since we are somewhat stuck with traditional ui.. the idea is to make it as nontraditional (as far as puters go) as possible
<darkmatter> which means more "real" graphically
<darkmatter> icons that are more reflective of life/beauty
<darkmatter> like text/etc.. any doc type in general
<darkmatter> should have the look of aged parchment (colourwise)... and a nice velum like texture
<darkmatter> IMHO
<darkmatter> so.. think oxygen but less "smooth" and less mac-ish ... basically
<darkmatter> but thats a shitty description
<nothlit> i rather dislike oxygens exaggerated contrast for most desktops, i think it suits higher dpi displays
<darkmatter> just not tango please... I mean.. tango is great so far as being a consistent style.. so kudos to all the work thats gone into it
<nothlit> a "real" theme needs to be way more toned down lol
<darkmatter> nothlit.. thats why I said "basically"
<darkmatter> :P
<darkmatter> but tango = psychotic toddler with a box of crayons
<darkmatter> and thats where it kinda dies for me
<darkmatter> its the whole "style that lets us make an icon in 30 seconds, so it makes us look like we have talent" thats the drawback
<darkmatter> ;)
<nothlit> i gotta say, tango is unfairly picked on in the artwork world, and unfairly lauded in the desktop user's world lol
<nothlit> some of its icons do have some merit, and it is quite useable, but definitely not an artistic pursuit
<darkmatter> yup
<darkmatter> it has its strong points
<darkmatter> and its week points
<darkmatter> but as a design it is well balanced
<darkmatter> just not "ideal"
<darkmatter> like.. kill the jiffy marker outlines
<darkmatter> or at least make them a shade of the icon colours
<nothlit> hmm they are a shade
<nothlit> its like 10/20% darker
<nothlit> but at small sizes its much more apparent
<darkmatter> like gion.. tango styled but with the outlines based on the shades of the actual palette ( with the new additions to the set)
<darkmatter> its still tango, but improved
<nothlit> but its needed for tango's aim to be useable in both dark and light environments imo
<darkmatter> true
<nothlit> that was all done with the touchpad rofl
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-09
<_MMA_> ï»¿I'm such a nerd. http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/741/circleofobamate5.png
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-10
<lastent> hi, I have a question, I just set a theme, but some windows have that theme others dont, can I change this?
<_MMA_> Are these windows that require admin access?
<_MMA_> is: Synaptic?
<_MMA_> *ie:
<lastent> _MMA_, yes they are
<_MMA_> Take the theme from /home/your_user/.themes to /usr/share/themes.
<lastent> thanks _MMA_
<nothlit> eh, you should do /root/.themes or /usr/local/share/themes
<nothlit> use*
<nothlit> you'll have the make the trailing directory
<nothlit> have to make*
<DanaG> ï»¿ Is it just me, or do gksu boxes and gnome-screensaver boxes now look ugly in Intrepid?  The background is a grey gradient, and clashes violently with many things.
<kwwii> njpatel: did you say that awn will work without compiz enabled?
<njpatel> kwwii: from the next release
<kwwii> njpatel: cool, one more question....are there packages for the applets?
<kwwii> I had some old stuff installed from some bzr repo and now that I removed it all to update to the official awn packages they are gone :-(
<njpatel> kwwii: yeah, awn-extras includes most of the applets, one sec, I'll get the ppa address
<kwwii> killer, thanks :-)
<kwwii> njpatel: do you think we should put awn in the default desktop instead of the lower panel?
<kwwii> since mark mentioned on his blog that he likes awn it might be easier than you think ;-)
<njpatel> kwwii: http://wiki.awn-project.org/DistributionGuides#Reacocard.27s_PPA
<njpatel> kwwii: hmm, not in it's current state. It needs some work still to become stable and act correctly in multi-monitor setups
<kwwii> ahhh, right...didn't think about dual monitors and such
<kwwii> njpatel: thanks for the info, rock on!
<andreasn> njpatel: great work on awn btw
<njpatel> kwwii: \m/ :-)
<njpatel> andreasn: thanks!
<andreasn> njpatel: do you happen to know if the banshee plugin that shows album covers works on banshee-1 yet?
<njpatel> andreasn: I think that someones been updating it to work, one sec
<njpatel> andreasn: you'll need the files from here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~awn-extras/awn-extras/trunk/files/rcryderman%40gmail.com-20080610021111-48otz8q4vh9nuas0?file_id=banshee1.0-20080528003422-i6ktw0fk6mxw4x6e-1
<andreasn> how do I download those with the bzr command? :)
<njpatel> andreasn: click on the file, and on the next page, click on the download link :-)
<andreasn> I just need the dll-file?
<njpatel> andreasn: yep, and copy into /usr/lib/banshee-1/Extensions
<njpatel> hmm, but it doesn't work for me...maybe I have an old version
<andreasn> will it work if I put it in ./config/banshee/plugins as well?
<njpatel> andreasn: should do, I don't really use banshee so I'm not sure
<andreasn> I'll try and see what happens
<andreasn> got it to work
<andreasn> thanks for the help
<emma> elkbuntu is this an official channel?
<elkbuntu> yes.
<emma> can I pm you a second?
<emma> elkbuntu ^
<elkbuntu> no. im busy.
<emma> ahh.
<emma> Some day I hope to discover the "ubuntu community" that I have heard people talking about.
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> in order to 'discover the "ubuntu community"' you will probably need to put more than 10 minutes into it
<zniavre> hello bonjour
<zniavre> do you know if we can try usplash without rebooting ?
<kwwii> zniavre: not that I know of as it goes in the initramfs
<zniavre> kwwii: thank you it's what i believed to
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-11
 * kwwii is off to band practice...bbl
<savvas> kwwii: nod that head :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-12
<jldugger-tablet> well theres a handy topic
<jldugger-tablet> I'm looking to replace bitmap icons with .svg
<jldugger-tablet> (in ubuntu packages)
<jldugger-tablet> does anyone know if there's a policy or anything I should read before starting?
<psyke83> kwwii, how's the new theme coming along?
<kwwii> psyke83: good, it will be included by default tomorrow
<psyke83> kwwii, awesome. Just one thing to note, though. Did you remove the workaround in section "murrine-default" for bg[SELECTED]? It's necessary for the old Human Metacity theme to emulate the caramel colour, but it may mess up newer metacity themes
<psyke83> (remember, there was a problem with Gnome Appearance Properties when it was rendering Metacity incorrectly)
<psyke83> sorry I didn't mention that earlier
<kwwii> psyke83: hrm, I was playing around with the bg[selected] definition but yesterday I put it back to be like the gtkrc you sent me
<kwwii> sorry for the lag, I am chatting while watching football :-)
<psyke83> kwwii, I'm working on a fix for bug #237261 for all the themes. The fix is very simple for Human-Murrine and Human-Clearlooks, but Human needs some reworking. It's related to what I mentioned. Anyway I'll ping or email you when it's done, enjoy the game :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237261 in human-theme "Human theme makes bad GTK widget class assumptions" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237261
<louie000> hello
<louie000> if i'm like to made an Artwork, what's the first step?
<kwwii> psyke83: excellent, thanks
<kwwii> hehe, perhaps a bit of patience would be the first thing he needs
<psyke83> ;)
<psyke83> kwwii, these fixes are for Hardy, do you want me to email them to you, or attach to the bug report?
<kwwii> psyke83: you can send them directly to me..I asked about pacthing the themes to fix this bug and they gave me the go ahead
<psyke83> ok
<psyke83> kwwii, hmm, I actually can't reproduce this bug for Human-Murrine or Human-Clearlooks, but I'll check it some more
<kwwii> cool, let me know whenever you feel happy with what you've got and I'll see that it happens
<psyke83> kwwii, I sent the updates for Hardy, and in a second mail the same update for the Human-Murrine (Intrepid version with old colours)
<kwwii> psyke83: got both of them, thnx
<kwwii> I might ping you tomorrow if I have any questions when packaging
<psyke83> kwwii, np, and I'll be around tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing the new theme
<kwwii> cool :-)
<kwwii> off to bed for tonight, see you
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-13
<caveymason> hey guys
<psyke83> kwwii, hey, do you mind if I send you a very small update for Human-Murrine (Intrepid)? It changes the colour of text to white for the filled part of progress bars
<dashua> http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_7.1213389327.png
<dashua> Anyone know how to fix these color issues?
<dashua> Something doesn't seem right here.
<dashua> Human-Murrine/Clearlooks seem ok.
<dashua> Or is this an issue with Banshee?
<psyke83> dashua_, the fix has been committed and should make it to Hardy soon
<psyke83> it was an issue with the theme and Banshee using custom widgets
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-14
<Flannel> I isolated the "Pass it On!" icon/text from the official artwork, is it kosher to add it to the /Artwork/Official page?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-06-15
<pwnguin> lol. so I'm reading the mailing list archives
<pwnguin> does the team do anything besides moan about top posting?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-08
<macvr> kwwii: hi... anything new? regarding panel decision? the last time u said that dark/light might be chosen... hope ubuntu chooses a transparent panel image... :)
<thorwil> macvr, regarding glossiness, sometimes it works very well to simply reduce the alpha of highlight or shiny area and/or slight blur
<thorwil> macvr, in some cases, simply fading out a shiny area works instead of using the expensive and hard to control blur
<thorwil> kwwii, hi! a new page i would like to get rid of: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/UsingOtherColorsKeepingHumanity
<thorwil> kwwii, thinking the content might warrant a post to the list, but nothing more
<thorwil> this one is very interesting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Backgrounds#Tranquil Aspiration / See-ming Lee
<knome> i like the eucalyptus wood
<knome> even i'm not sure if it would was as a bg
<knome> and it looks way better as thumbnail :P
<knome> Cimi_, can we expect that the launhcpad branch common-gtkrc will be relatively stable for future monts?
<Cimi_> common-gtkrc is much more stable than the one used by ubuntu
<knome> right.
<Cimi_> and more tested of course, since it is based on the Clearlooks theme by gnome
<knome> when do you expect it is chaging again/murrine is having an another release?
<Cimi_> murrine is quite well stable
<Cimi_> I have a dream about the options
<knome> right
<Cimi_> i would like to rename them into a new format
<Cimi_> but I 'm not planing it
<knome> if i plan a gtk theme for xubuntu karmic, should i use this or wait for a new release? :P
<Cimi_> this
<knome> okay,
<knome> thanks!
<knome> have to go ->
<macvr> thorwil: were u talking about the smileys?
<thorwil> macvr, yes
<macvr> thorwil: actually the top light does have blur > 0.5 , but very less i suppose, maybe alpha should be reduced
<thorwil> macvr, if you use stronger blur, you have to make sure it doesn't reach beyond the actual object. in some cases, one has to use clipping
<macvr> thorwil: i realized that ^ , hence i had blur =0.5
<macvr> thorwil: just removed the gloss... how is this>http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1882/smiley33.png
<thorwil> macvr, maybe a bit flat
<macvr> thorwil: seems thats , what breathe wants :P
<thorwil> macvr, btw, the smiley base is one of the rather few cases where one could try to mimic the bottom-glow of the folder icon
<thorwil> macvr, "what Breathe wants" is a funny topic
<macvr> thorwil: MMA seems rigid sometimes :P
<thorwil> macvr, Cory started it as some kind of Oxygen for Ubuntu, but aside from that and the demands on the folder, it was up to me to define the general direction
<thorwil> macvr, but Sebastian did almost all the work, so it's kinda his interpretation of my briefing that defines the look
<macvr> thorwil: regarding the folder... how can a bottom glow leave a shadow below?
<thorwil> macvr, it's magic. what can is say ... this aspect of breathe makes me unhappy
<macvr> it no way accounts for the shadow... the shadow seems like an anomalie
<macvr> i found ur reply to the mail funny.. :P saying that the shadow made everything right :P
<macvr> thorwil: ^
<thorwil> macvr, that's not what i said or meant
<thorwil> it is simply wrong to say that the folder icon has sole light from below
<macvr> thorwil: actually i light the bottom glow, its more like an object being presented , which seems ok for the folders
<thorwil> macvr, still, it's a common way to depict translucent objects such that they have a highlight on top from light above, but a deeper color on top amnd brighter at bottom. classical glassy look
<macvr> thorwil: when it has dual light there CANNOT be any shadows, especially like the one below, a yellow light instead of the shadow... how does that sound?
<thorwil> macvr, in some of the versions of the folder, the shadow was colored with a slight orange shift
<macvr> ^ that would be nice
<thorwil> don't know if it is there in the newest incarnation
<macvr> i dont think so...
<macvr> thorwil: if u find time... why not come up with the version of andrew with a little perspective added?
<macvr> ^at an angle that seba has done?
<thorwil> i think perspective/shape of Andrew's version is just fine
<thorwil> it's indeed the shadow one could work on
<macvr> thorwil: shape is nice... but i think adding angles to the folders would be better than the straight on look
<thorwil> macvr, generally, i'm starting to do freelance work and should invest my time wisely. so i hesitate to work on things that don't make good portfolio material ...
<macvr> :( the force is weak on this one ^
<macvr> thorwil: thats the prob with open source, people cant devote much time to it... if only it paid money... :(
<thorwil> yeah, exactly
<macvr> thorwil: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/19866/   i tried proposing this, but no one wants to just allow this
<thorwil> macvr, it's a tricky business
<macvr> thorwil: what are ur thought on that idea?
<macvr> something needs to be done , otherwise open source will constantly be "sustaining" , rather than leading...
<thorwil> macvr, i think the current situation isn't that bad
<thorwil> you have to consider that money comes with some bad side effects
<macvr> thorwil: as? how can money be bad :P
<thorwil> greed, competition, driving the fun out of what has been a hobby because now you have to do it
<thorwil> setting bad goals because suddenly money is the driver, not any higher goal
<macvr> thorwil: well if u dont have money, > NO HOBBY !
<macvr> thorwil: do u have ur work online? i checked out ur world press logo design, is it elsewhere also?
<thorwil> macvr, outside of the blog, there's only http://sophia.uni-wuppertal.de/diplom/ss_05/wilms/index.html
<thorwil> macvr, but i havn't updated the Logo Design page since long, so you have go through blog entries to see newer work
<macvr> thorwil: ^thanx..just trying to learn , by seeing more... :)
<macvr> ok
<kwwii> thorwil: yes, that should be gotten rid of, and yes tranquil is quite nice :)
<kwwii> sorry everyone, I forgot to mention that I am on holiday this week
<thorwil> kwwii, have a nice holiday, wtf are you still doing here? ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: well, my band plays in a club tonight and then we are leaving :)
<macvr> kwwii:  / thorwil: /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png ... why are all the default backgrounds label so?
<macvr> SiDi: do u know anything about this^ ?
<SiDi> whats wrong with the label ?
<macvr> SiDi: its labelled "WARTY" in jaunty!
<macvr> SiDi: thats the same way in all the releases!
<SiDi> isnt that an old one ?
<SiDi> im on xubuntu btw i dont have such a file :)
<macvr> thats the first release...! i just thought u might have some info about this ...
<dashua> macvr: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-wallpapers/+bug/296538
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 296538 in ubuntu-wallpapers "warty-final-ubuntu.png is actually a jpeg" [Low,Triaged]
<dashua> the reason for this file being named thusly is historical and due to the update process. It was intentionally done this way because the update process currently cannot handle different file types for the wallpaper. This is something that should be fixed in Jaunty.
<macvr> dashua: ok... thanx... but the guys can get wobbly windows and all the graphics to work but still havent figured this out since warty... :P
<macvr> just kidding :P
<dashua> Ha yeah
<dashua> Take away my wobbly windows and I convert to OSX ;p
<macvr> wobbly windows is really a wonderful feature , makes the interface more touchable...
<macvr> take that lickable!
<dashua> I've been using them for almost three years and still love them
<dashua> I've really grown fond that feature
<macvr> me to :)
<macvr> too
<dashua> When I move a window on other OS's, it just doesn't feel right.  I'm always waiting for some type of inertia.
<macvr> dashua: exactly my feeling^... i was wondering why the others just havent implemented it yet... more than a feature... it just makes sense during the movement.
<macvr> dashua: have u recently checked the breathe submissions page?
<dashua> macvr: I agree.  It is more than eye candy at this point.  I would classify as a usability factor.
<dashua> I just did.  Things are shaping up nicely
<macvr> dashua: any comments about the smiley base?
<dashua> Hr,m, let me check
<dashua> face-Base2 looks best to me.  I like the gloss.
<macvr> dashua: me too... but Cory is against it very much :(
<macvr> especially the gloss
<dashua> I'm not sure if the gloss is consistent with the set, but it does look the best
<dashua> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
<dashua> Have you seen these?
<macvr> dashua: how do u mean consistent?
<dashua> The gloss
<macvr> dashua: its the same actually, i just resize the images , and adjusted the things where required for the pixel alignment, but nothing about the gloss was altered from the big pic
<macvr> dashua: wish i could make icons like that!... i'm just 15days old with inkscape...  :P   lot to learn how to use it...
<dashua> Hehe, good work so far :)
<dashua> I'm still using your nm-applet icons
<macvr> dashua: thanx...btw...is that ur icons
<dashua> Oh no.  He's a Novell artist, I believe.
<macvr> i saw that screenshot... thats the main reason for me asking whose it was... :P  ... was glad someone other than me is using it...
<dashua> I'm really digging Andrew's modifications to the set.  They are quite nice.
<macvr> dashua: the folders are awesome... i'll try to replicate them for breathe... :P ... is that allowed?
<macvr> yeah andrew's is good...
<dashua> Those icons are tango based and Breathe has an Oxygen base
<dashua> Not sure.  You would have to ask Cory.
<macvr> Cory said he was open to ideas, if something better comes...
<dashua> Ah nice
<macvr> dashua: what is the "base" actually people keep talking about ? oxygen/tango ...
<dashua> Icon sets
<macvr> that is understood...
<dashua> There are specifications to the sets for consistency
<macvr> but from oxygen or human, why isnt the novel type possible?
<andreasn> any ubuntu art people coming to Guadec/Akademy?
<dashua> macvr: Not sure.  It's OSS so I guess anything is possible ;)
<macvr> dashua: damn... why did u show me that link!!!!!! now i'm going to loose sleep trying to replicate it!... how i find the svg for those... it could make it easier
 * dashua -> lunch
<dashua> bbl
<macvr> np..
<vikashkoushik> Is there anyone who can help me with gfx-grub issue??
<macvr> vikashkoushik: this room is only for designing ...
<vikashkoushik> could you tell me a room where i can find my solution? pls
<macvr> vikashkoushik: #ubuntu
<vikashkoushik> thanks
<macvr> dashua: u there?
<savvas> anyone working on bug 149047 ? Is there a reason some 48x48 are not included?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 149047 in human-icon-theme "Various icons don't have 48x48 nor scalable version" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149047
<savvas> kwwii: I've attached a system-search.svg for bug 149047
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 149047 in human-icon-theme "Various icons don't have 48x48 nor scalable version" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149047
<macvr> savvas: kwwii  is out this whole week...
<savvas> ah ok
<savvas> no hurry anyway, I see that the artwork team is subscribed to the bug :)
<savvas> thanks for the info macvr!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-09
<dashua> macvr: Aye
<macvr> dashua: now i forgot what i wnated to ask !
<macvr> dashua: btw way new doubt, how do i select inkscape colors from outside the program, like from the desktop?
<dashua> Oh wow, it
<dashua> 's been a while
<dashua> Not an expert with inkscape. I've only dabbled with it
<macvr> the color picker seems to work only within the page... :(
<macvr> np...
<macvr> dashua: i'll ask later when i remember the thought i had yday... :)
<dashua> I've run into the same problem.  I don't make icons just themes ;)
<dashua> But I will usually use Gimp for that
<macvr> thats what i do for ,now... find the color from gimp and copy it to inkscape :P
<dashua> Goodnight macvr.  Time for sleep.
<macvr> goodnight :)
<savvas> anyone here? :P
<savvas> does anyone know where I can find the mandriva logo?
<savvas> in svg format that is
<macvr> savvas: actually i think i'v killed this room :P ... ever since i'v been active things have died down ...  and i dont know about the logo...
<savvas> haha ok
<SiDi> hi people
<zniavre> bonjour SiDi
<SiDi> bonjour zniavre :)
<SiDi> whats up ?
<zniavre> nothing news ..."la routine"
<savvas> hm.. is your gimp working after the last updates in jaunty?
<thorwil> savvas, i saw some imagemagick updates
<thorwil> gimp works fine here, afaics
<savvas> ah ignore
<savvas> there was an instance open
<savvas> I had to: killall -9 -r gimp
<savvas> :P
<thorwil> there can only be one
<knome> macvr, can't agree with that ;)
<macvr> knome: ? its alive? :P
<knome> macvr, not much, but it maybe never has been really active
<knome> so it's just normal
<macvr> knome: atleast SiDi used to troll :P ... even he seems to have calmed down
<knome> lol
<knome> yes, but he was a newbie;)
<knome> still had the energy
<knome> to try activate the chan i mean ;)
<macvr> haha..
<knome> he used to troll a lot more in #xubuntu-devel also but he's calmed down there also
<knome> or not troll actually
<knome> just make noise
<zniavre_> :o)
<knome> oh sir, you have a huge nose there
<macvr> knome: i was kidding about the trolling ... just to lure him back in :P
<knome> macvr, i know;)
<knome> he gets irritated so easily
<macvr>  oh sir, you have a huge nose there??? me?
<knome> zniavre_, ;)
<SiDi> knome, you wants noize ?
<macvr> i was little if the bit i said was already noise!
<knome> SiDi, always
<macvr> he's back
<SiDi> me comez to helsinki then
<SiDi> and makez noize!
<knome> hehe
<SiDi> knome, you've never seen me on #ubuntu-fr
<macvr> knome: is mma also away?
<knome> SiDi, hah:D
<knome> macvr, dunno
<macvr> knome: SiDi:  >>> http://imagebin.ca/popup/REVT0J.html  <<< feedback?
<knome> macvr, i don
<knome> ...'t like drawn smilies
<macvr> :( ... only ascii ones?
<macvr> knome: but do u see anything wrong?
<knome> suppose not.
<knome> yes, i only like ascii ones :D
<macvr> :)
<macvr> knome: do u work with inkscape?
<knome> macvr, yes
<macvr> how do i change the perspective?
<knome> macvr, "the perspective"?
<macvr> s
<macvr> from the effects menu
<knome> don't know
<knome> haven't used it
<macvr> :(
<knome> and i'm on an eeepc now
<knome> can't even try
<macvr> is inkscape generally slow?
<macvr> and heavy on the resources?
<SiDi> heavy on GPU indeed
<knome> uh, hard to say. if you have lots of things, yes
<macvr> it has caused 2 freezes and 1 crash! along with the ext4  they are causing havoc!
<knome> lol
<macvr> why lol :( ...!
<macvr> :P
<knome> funnily said
<macvr> how do i use imagemaigck?
<knome> man imagemagick
<macvr> damn!
<macvr> i forgot that!
<macvr> knome: is it command line or does it have a gui?
<macvr> i have it installed but, dont see a menu item
<knome> cli
<macvr> ok..
<knome> inkscape is what you want to use to edit stuff even if it took all our resources ;)
<knome> *your
<knome> not ours
<macvr> ^haha
<macvr> knome: i dont like any cli things... i just found it in the packages and was wondering
<knome> hah
<knome> it can be useful sometimes
<macvr> i just hate to enter commands ... :( ... so i hope i dont ever need to use it!
<knome> lol
<knome> ok
<knome> maybe you won't then
<macvr> :)
<zniavre_> http://www.getdropbox.com/gallery/187396/1/svg?h=a783bc   can i hav critics with this icon test
<zniavre_> ?
<macvr> zniavre_: i think the one on the right is better... they are different aernt they?
<macvr> what icon is it?
<savvas> it reminds me of soulseek (?)
<macvr> guys>>>> http://imagebin.ca/popup/T8v0EmS7.html   ...   http://imagebin.ca/popup/FQ6a4HM.html  ... which is better? the difference is the mouth stroke..
<savvas> I like the last one ;p
<macvr>  me too , but was wondering if the fuzziness was a prob...
<thorwil> macvr, 2nd. however, make sure stroke width is never below 1px
<macvr> thorwil: the stroke is not less than 1px in the big ones , but in the smaller ones its less...
<macvr> thorwil: how do i use the perspective from the effects menu?
<thorwil> macvr, i virtually never use that, so i have no idea :)
 * thorwil -> dinner
<macvr> i think i'm the only crazy person who is interested in that! noone seems to use it...
<zniavre_> macvr,  thank you , yes it's soulseek icon
<SiDi> !info xorg
<ubottu> xorg (source: xorg): X.Org X Window System. In component main, is optional. Version 1:7.4~5ubuntu18 (jaunty), package size 1 kB, installed size 24 kB
<Viper550> hey
<Viper550> hey
<knome> ?
<Viper550> I had been suggesting on -devel a reform for usplash's theme
<Viper550> since we're all trying to aim for quick boot-ups, even on slower hardware, I think we should "decrease" the profile of the Usplash theme on Karmic
<_MMA_> Viper550: As they are looking to drop it altogether, I doubt they wanna spend *any* time on it.
<Viper550> I suggested we just switch to it being a small dark grey Ubuntu logo with a small throbber
<knome> doesn't sound so... possible
<Viper550> but they still said you'd need a feedback for fsck
<_MMA_> Viper550: Then the old-school text can pop up. I just know what I read on the lists.
<_MMA_> Some of the latest posts look very promising. Just some issues with initramfs.
 * _MMA_ looks for link.
<_MMA_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2009-June/028308.html
<Viper550> but on slower computers if possible
<_MMA_> Viper550: I would wager, if they attain the 10s time for most modern HW, Usplash will be dropped from the Ubuntu disks totally.
<Viper550> But, what about my computer? The 256mb P3 equiv
<_MMA_> Viper550: You're S.O.L. in my experience. (if you're serious) I can only speak to what I've learned as a developer of Ubuntu Studio working with upstream Ubuntu.
<Viper550> yes my designated linux computer is older, but it still hums nicely
<_MMA_> Viper550: It will be up to Xubuntu and the like to cater to you. (if that's their target)
<knome> xubuntu will be just able to run on your configuration.
<Viper550> It's evolved a bit from its stock config though, it originally had 128MB of RAM and a Nvidia graphics card. I don't think one of the newer versions didn't like my graphics card much - I had to go into recovery mode and set it to use vesa instead of ATI to make it work
<Viper550> For a desktop/office/internet system, it ran ... oh great forgot where I put the disc
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-10
<Viper550> it was either Gutsy or Hardy...
<Viper550> however my dad demended Windows back when he discovered that the IM clients (I tried Kopete AND Pidgin) didn't seem to support the Yahoo/WLM interop.
<Viper550> nm it was Gutsy
<Viper550> yeah it was gutsy, but anyway
<Viper550> so the direction for Karmic
<AnAnt> Hello, are there any themes for GDM 2.26 ?
<thorwil> morning!
<SiDi> heya
<SiDi> what's up ?
<thorwil> macvr, you shouldn't count on that crude perspective thing in inkscape
<SiDi> macvr, you should consider not using custom fonts when sending your emails to a list :] it doesnt look sexy at all
<thorwil> macvr, you could use the 3d box tool as guide, but ideally you should know hot to draw/construct in perspective manually. do you know about vanishing point perspective, or shall i give you 1 or 2 links?
<thorwil> just in case: http://drawsketch.about.com/library/weekly/aa021603a.htm
<thorwil> http://www.khulsey.com/student.html
<macvr> thorwil: i understand the vanishing points... but the links are useful too... actually i was trying to alter Andrew's folder... didnt want to restart from scratch as i'm toooooo lazy to do that :P
<SiDi> my preference goes to a "2D" folder
<macvr> SiDi: thats yahoo.. not me...! i sent that mail from yahoo, since i had to dig it out from the older mails
<SiDi> it looks much more symetric when you have a lot of folders
<SiDi> macvr, go for a good mail client, or mail.google.com :]
<macvr> SiDi: u are too old style
<thorwil> hardly
<macvr> SiDi: i use thunderbird , but this was an old mail, hence
<macvr> thorwil: yes he is, just for the folders!
<macvr> SiDi: i have nearly 10 mail ids! i use this yahoo for mailing lists , since it allows several disposable address in case i get spammed!
<SiDi> i have many addresses too
<thorwil> i wonder how that can be worth the effort
<SiDi> i just didnt check most for 5+ years
<macvr> i use thnderbird.. for keeping them active :P
<macvr> thorwil: i just hogged the mail id from several top mail sites, so that i can use my name as the id , rather than  _ _ _ 2k@ /14324 stuff :P
<macvr> thorwil: any feedback about the smileys? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions
<thorwil> macvr, the 48px sizes seem to have better proportions than the big ones
<thorwil> macvr, you should try to tweak the upper curve of the big smile to minimize the jaggedness
<macvr> all or any one in particular?
<thorwil> all
<thorwil> macvr, the closed mouth lines could do with very subtle gradients
<macvr> thorwil: that i tried... :( but then i would have had to go more than 1px and it didnt look good
<macvr> ^upperlip
<macvr> thorwil: which sizes are more frequently used?
<macvr> smileys and for the folders?
<thorwil> no clue for smilies
<macvr> folders?
<thorwil> for folders i guess 48 and 22
<macvr> ok...
<thorwil> well, just take a screenshot of nautilus and check to be sure
<macvr> never thought of that^ :)
<thorwil> macvr, the smallest of smile-big looks like a different emotion
<macvr> i'll see if i can correct that
<thorwil> macvr, try a reflected linear gradient on smile-big teeth, white in center, very bright warm-grey to the sides
<macvr> in all sizes?
<macvr> thorwil: u could have given this idea yday :/
<macvr> :P
<thorwil> macvr, maybe only down to including 32
<macvr> thorwil: http://imagebin.ca/popup/rsFVlgBW.html
<thorwil> macvr, a bit less. but even so, i think it's an improvement
<macvr> nothing seems possible for that upperline :(, the curve is the prob! will try with a straighter curver
<macvr> curve
<thorwil> macvr, though, you have to decide if the smilies shall look like printed on a slightly convex surface, or if you want it to appear like the surface itself is modeled to support the emotion
<macvr> thorwil: ^i didnt understand
<thorwil> macvr, either a print on always the same round object, or similar objects that are shaped, where the "facial" features are not flat
<macvr> if i understood u right...> i'm not trying to make the whole smiley as a curve, but only the edges are supposed to be curved, like the button pins ,but he smiley surface is flat.
<macvr> thorwil: ^
<macvr> thorwil: http://imagebin.ca/popup/QRmTvys.html , adjusted the upper line...also  how is the 16 px now?
<thorwil> macvr, i hardly notice a difference on the small one
<thorwil> the problem is that the upper lip appears to be horizontal, no curve
<macvr> compare to the submissions page, both the imagebin pics are edits
<macvr> thorwil: u want the curve for the 16px too?
<thorwil> macvr, yes, if you can make it fit in
<macvr> that i'm not sure is going to be posible :(
<macvr> at that scale getting so many curves was tough
<SiDi> macvr, you should read about indicator-applet ;)
<SiDi> thunderbird will likely use indicator-applet asa someone patches it. it shouldnt use notify-osd as the biggest part of canonical's effort has been to prevent apps from using it for such information
<macvr> SiDi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD/Compatibility-Post904 ... notify-osd includes thunderbird. also i do know that the patch is what they are waiting for but when do they expect it was my question? links for the indicator applet?
<macvr> SiDi: also i'v read the notify-osd too many times ... but not able to find the indicator applet wiki
<SiDi> i dont think there is a page for indicator-applet yet
<macvr> SiDi: then how do i read about it :P ...
<macvr> SiDi: this was what i found a long time ago >https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu/ < but it has no mention about thunderbird...
<macvr> SiDi: also what did u think they had the email icon in the notify-osd for?  :P
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-11
<macvr> thorwil: hi...
<thorwil> hi!
<macvr> thorwil: how fast do icon sets generally get done? when was breathe idea started? when would a realistic completion be?
<thorwil> macvr, most sets have a rather limited number of icons. if you want to cover everything like tango and oxygen, we are talking about years, i think
<thorwil> macvr, the people involved with tango or oxygen can tell you much better
<thorwil> macvr, could have been about august 2008 that Cory first mentioned the idea, not sure. you could check the mailing list archive for the first public anouncement. or check the creation date of the main Breathe wiki page
<SiDi> macvr: i'd say a good year at least, yeh... if you watch carefully, very few icon themes are complete enough for actual use, and they're all old
<macvr> thorwil: SiDi ... thanx guys... i think i'll concentrate more on the quality of what i'm submitting , rather than the speed... i was actually worried i was slow :P
<macvr> thorwil: regarding the mime base... the initial empty.svg was dog eared.. hence i maintained it..
<thorwil> macvr, question everything!! ;)
<macvr> thorwil: so a paper without the dog ears and looking like that?
<macvr> thorwil: also.... i dont think its dog ears actually, its just that the paper is having wind blown at the bottom... :P
<thorwil> macvr, wind doesnt result in a hard fold
<macvr> i dont think its a hard fold... see the shadow below the fold? if it was a fold there would be no shadow
<macvr> thorwil: ^
<thorwil> macvr, there's no curve, so it's a hard fold
<macvr> thorwil: that i have to agree, adding the curve would make it correct
<macvr> thorwil: check again... it actually has a curve... :)
<thorwil> macvr, there's another problem with your base. it's not straight on, so we would have to distort everything painted on it. that's not feasible
<thorwil> 0.o  http://www.yourlogomakesmebarf.com/
<andreasn> hi! can someone help me out with a screenshot?
<andreasn> I'm trying to fix a Ubuntu/Firefox bug
<knome> andreasn, hmm?
<andreasn> can someone take a screenshot of Firefox using the Human theme
<andreasn> of a tab and of the file menu
<knome> why can't you do it yourself? :P
<andreasn> because I broke it :)
<andreasn> so I need to figure out if it's using the 8x8 or the 12x12
 * SiDi got a custom FF theme and cant reboot FF, sorry
<SiDi> you want the "Close tab" icon of the file menu ?
<andreasn> yes
<andreasn> or, well, I need to figure out what size is used on the tabs
<SiDi> damn
<SiDi> cant upload
<SiDi> http://imagebin.org/52119
<andreasn> that shows the bug I'm trying to fix, I'm trying to get it to be the same size as on the menu
<andreasn> on the tab I mean
<zniavre> pole emploi ...
<SiDi> zniavre: yeh :D
<SiDi> but if you know someone who recruits for this summer, let me know ;)
<zniavre> sorry i believed i was in regular french room
<zniavre> i can't works im not allowed to
<SiDi> how can you be not allowed to work ?
<knome> mommy told not to
<knome> ;)
<zniavre> handicap (do not know in english
<SiDi> you're disabled, in english
<zniavre> im wasted
<zniavre> :o)
<SiDi> ^^
<SiDi> how old are you btw, zniavre ?
<zniavre> 38
<SiDi> macvr: what ubuntu version do you use ?
<macvr> SiDi: 9.04
 * macvr wonders what SiDi is up to?
<SiDi> eating :P
<SiDi> macvr: did you try karmic yet ?
<macvr> nope... i still have probs with ext4 in jaunty :(
<psyke83> macvr: the kernel shipped with Jaunty has an ext4 crashing bug (that's usually triggered from file deletes). I noticed that bug to be fixed with an update to the kernel (I use the proposed updates, so the proposed kernel may have been what fixed it)
<macvr> psyke83: actually the performance is worse from ext3, i'm not sure why this is...i think its because i did a inplace upgrade from ext3 , and part of the files are still in ext3 and not yet refreshed!
<macvr> psyke83: have u tried e4defrag?
<macvr> i wan to use it for refreshing files
<psyke83> I didn't do an in-place upgrade, so I'm not using a hybrid ext4 filesystem
<psyke83> I haven't tried e4defrag, last time I checked it wasn't packaged in Jaunty or Karmic
<macvr> psyke83: its not there , but i thought of using this guide> http://polishlinux.org/apps/cli/ext4-defragmentation-with-e4defrag/  but it went over my head :(
<SiDi> noone endorses damage done to your data
<SiDi> ;)
<psyke83> macvr: it seems to make more sense to backup your home directory to another drive/partition and reformat
<macvr> psyke83: my / is in ext3/4 hybrid state... would reinstall of the packages convert them to ext4?
<macvr> SiDi: i havent lost any data :P .... yet
<psyke83> possibly, but I think it'll miss a lot of files untouched (and therefore not using the ext4 features)
<psyke83> *leave, not miss
<macvr> psyke83: i thought of a reinstall, just lazy ... maybe for karmic
<psyke83> well, alpha 2 of karmic is coming in the next day or so... you have time to decide ;)
<macvr> or atleast when karmic becomes beta
<psyke83> right, it may be better to wait if you're looking for stability
<macvr> not alpha! i'll have to reboot for all the updates!
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-12
<dashua__> 1) http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/16301/screenshot_001_IvRNXG.png 2) http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/16302/screenshot_002_D5FRVz.png
<dashua__> SiDi: Which one do you like better 1) lighter 2) darker ?
<dashua__> Or anyone, opinion ?
<SiDi> i'd say lighter
<SiDi> but there isnt such a big difference :)
<dashua__> Ok, thx.  My screen is dark so its hard to tell :)
<dashua__> Pushed a metacity fix.  Menu button was off
<robsta1> kwwii, you there?
<thorwil> robsta1, he's on vacation this week
<robsta1> ah, thanks
<thorwil> "on top of a mountain", he said :)
<robsta1> well then how's things thorwil?
<thorwil> robsta1, soon i will have completed my first freelance job
<robsta1> thorwil: nice, is it in the foss world?
<thorwil> meanwhile, i'm torn apart if i should use my "free" time to code a little demo, work on a 3d animation, draw or make music :}
<thorwil> robsta1, no and it might even happen that i can't present it in the open at all
<thorwil> robsta1, i guess you are still busy as hell?
<robsta1> thorwil: you should work for the pr0n industry, recession is a foreign word there i hear
<thorwil> robsta1, sure, do you have contacts? ;)
<robsta1> not really
<robsta1> google is your friend i guess
<robsta1> thorwil: i'm just "busy" :)
<robsta1> thorwil: but started pitching the css engine where i work, so i might get time for it in the future
<thorwil> that would be nice
<robsta1> thorwil: i've been thinking about a simple theme to fit moblin
<robsta1> (not a single canvas one)
<thorwil> moblin is straight gtk?
<robsta1> well the shell is using clutter
<robsta1> (and libccss)
<robsta1> so all the theme parts are available
<robsta1> (and help the cause of selling it here)
<robsta1> hey andreasn
<andreasn> hi robsta1
<andreasn> how are things?
<robsta1> andreasn: no complaints, i even get some time for my pet projects at work :)
<robsta1> how are you?
<andreasn> pretty good, working on some gnome.org stuff
<robsta1> andreasn: how's lanedo coming?
<andreasn> I'm not working at Lanedo, I do work for Mozilla Messaging these days
<robsta1> andreasn: ooh, freelance or permanent?
<robsta1> and what is mozilla messaging? :P
<andreasn> http://www.mozillamessaging.com/
<andreasn> via my own company
<robsta1> andreasn: i'm meaning to try tbird for some time
<robsta1> it only took me like 5 years to switch from epiphany to firefox :)
<andreasn> the 3.0 version have some nice tricks I can't live without now
<robsta1> andreasn: for some reason i always thought you were with imendio
<andreasn> I were with Imendio earlier
<robsta1> ah
<andreasn> until it stopped being Imendio
<SiDi> obvious :D
<dashua[A90]> UNR Karmic is much better than Jaunty.  Compiz works again :)
<dashua[A90]> http://picpaste.com/Screenshot_2.png
<robsta1> moblin ftw
 * robsta1 ducks
 * thorwil builds a custom kernel, first time after switching from gentoo
<SiDi> dashua[A90]: imo there is room for improvement :)
<SiDi> that ()ubuntu text on the top takes room for not much info
 * _MMA_ shakes his head @ dashua's many nics.
<SiDi> its because he has too many computers
<SiDi> but im sure he'll send me some soon, isnt it ? :D
<SiDi> dashua[A90]_: dashua[A90]__ dashua ping ^
<_MMA_> And they *all* need to be connected? :) Man. Use screen or bip. :P
<SiDi> good night
<spg76> Hello, everybody.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-13
<dashua> _MMA_: You can thank my daughter for grabbing my netbook and playing Club Penguin. :P
<dashua> She closed me off.
<_MMA_> dashua: hahahahah Awesome. :)
<dashua> Man, they love that little thing.
<_MMA_> \m/
<dashua> How ya been mate?
<_MMA_> Workin' 60hr weeks.
<dashua> Good and bad, I guess?
<dashua> Extra $ is always good, but the sacrifice sometimes is killer
<_MMA_> dashua: Yeah. I'm in Md. and the fam is in N.C. So, a bit lonely.
<dashua> Are you near Ocean City?
<_MMA_> dashua: That's 'bout 2hrs away. I'm more near Baltimore.
<macvr> _MMA_: hi, pretty busy i guess :)
<macvr> anyone feedback on this?> https://www.getdropbox.com/gallery/1325768/1/Smileys?h=aae5fc
<_MMA_> macvr: Fun. I think your best-bet is to do them all and post to the wiki or a screenshot on the list with them all. You look to be heading in a good direction. Just go with it.
<macvr> _MMA_: ok... this wink got me in a tangle! i couldnt maintain a design well in all the sizes :( ... so i started on emblems :P
<macvr> i'll upload when i'v done a bunch
<_MMA_> macvr: Sure. Sometimes it's better to move on and come back to something.
<macvr> _MMA_: ... kinda like a writers block :P ... ok... have a nice weekend :)
<_MMA_> macvr: ;) Ill be around. Not always sitting here, but around.
<macvr> :P
<kwwii> re
<SiDi> heya
 * kwwii just returned from vacation
<SiDi> was it fun ?
<kwwii> very much so, yes :)
 * _MMA_ waves
<kwwii> hey _MMA_
<thorwil> welcome back kwwii
<kwwii> hi thorwil, thanks
<kwwii> did I miss anything big?
<kwwii> I have something like 800 emails in my inbox to catch up on
<thorwil> kwwii, nope
<kwwii> hehe, good to know that things don't work without me
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> no comments on that statement, please
<thorwil> kwwii, something big happened when you where here?? ;)
<kwwii> that is exactly what I meant ;)
<kwwii> guess I will put off reading them for now and head into town to see a melodic girl punk band
<kwwii> _MMA_: btw, did you hear that we played our first paid gig last week?
<kwwii> it was *amazing*
<kwwii> anyway, I am out for the night...be back tomorrow
<thorwil> have fun!
<kwwii> will do, see you soon
<SiDi> kwwii: actually we finished the whole artwork for karmic and karmic +1 while you were away
<Flannel> Hey guys, anyone happen to know where/have the source for/whatever the bug icon for the bug squad? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad/Header?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=bugsquad.png
<SiDi> looks like a cockroach
<SiDi> not sure though XD
<Flannel> Right, I was hoping for a SVG so I could use it in a bugjam logo
<Flannel> I thought it might be a stock gnome/whatever image, but I haven't been able to find it
<SiDi> i dont know, honnestly
<SiDi> did you mail the bugsquad yet ?
<Flannel> No, not yet.  My next step is to ask the guy who added it.  But I figured when I saw activity in this channel, it couldn't hurt to ask.
<SiDi> try #ubuntu-bugs otherwise
<SiDi> or bdmurray or heno, they're the core guys of the bug squad so they might have the svg
<_MMA_> SiDi: Didn't troy_s or thorwil do that?
<thorwil> _MMA_, not my bug :)
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<thorwil> that was my bug: http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/banner_bugs_01_i.png
<SiDi> thorwil: yours indeed looks much more annoying
<SiDi> :D
<thorwil> SiDi, heh. and that is even the "tamed version, i mean to recall, less shiny than the first
<Flannel> Well, I was originally looking for the bug in the global bug jam logo, but I was told that the svg for that was lost, so I'm really just looking for a suitable bug.  I'm not really sure why we want to squash lady bugs.
<SiDi> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Steve_ballmer_2007_outdoors2.jpg here, a bug
<macvr> ^ a sly one too :P
<macvr> thorwil: hi... busy?
<thorwil> macvr, not really
<macvr> compare the 16 px in these... http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/smiley2.png  ... http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/smiley1.png ... which is better?
<thorwil> macvr, smiley2, the other looks like mister bunny-man in comparison
<macvr> thorwil: :) thanx ... actually i was worried if the mouth was wide enough...
<thorwil> maybe it's a bit narrow, but the expression works fine as is
<macvr> damn the 16px :P ... its really tough to get those buggers
<thorwil> http://effiejayx.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/cool-loco-team-logos/
<macvr> thorwil: i like the singapore logo... ur fav?
<thorwil> macvr, same
<macvr> :) ...u must be having a different google! , how do u get these cool links
<thorwil> macvr, that was via planet ubuntu
 * _MMA_ notes that "...u" is more to actually type than "You". ;)
<macvr> oh...
 * macvr wans everyone to know he is veeeeeery lazy
<_MMA_> Ok. So we have to /also/ excuse it? :)
<macvr> yep...
<macvr> _MMA_: anyone doing a cool ubuntu logo for breathe?
<_MMA_> macvr: Unless English is your 2nd language it just makes you look a bit childish is all. I know you're not 10. ;)
<_MMA_> And I'm unsure where we need a logo.
<thorwil> 16?
<macvr> ^haha
<macvr> wish i was :(
<_MMA_> We use the Ubuntu logo for the distributor logo and the folder where needed.
<thorwil> macvr, now i'm confused
<macvr> :)
<_MMA_> macvr: Generally, I see a logo representing  Breathe as unnecessary as we're a Ubuntu community project.
<macvr> _MMA_: its just that some icon sets , do minor changes to the logo next to applications menu...
<macvr> so i was wondering.
<_MMA_> macvr: If you look at ours, it is different. It's not just some flat SVG.
<macvr> _MMA_: the short form is really hurting me in real life too! sometimes i just write u! damn the sms!
<_MMA_> It's just a pet peeve of mine. My thinking is you get what you give. So, if one talks/acts like a child, that's how they will be treated. ;)
<macvr> _MMA_: just checked again... its is different...
<macvr> _MMA_: hei........! how did i behave like a child? using u was childish?
<_MMA_> I said "talks" also. Usually, the sort form is used excessively by the kiddies. You use it as well on the list.
<_MMA_> macvr: Just the way I feel. No need to debate it really.
<macvr> :)
<thorwil> _MMA_, is simply not amused by any signs of less than sophisticated means of expression
<macvr> thorwil: i'v noticed that... bit of a serious chap
<_MMA_> Kinda. ;)
<thorwil> time to shutdown my system, we will meet again!
<macvr> _MMA_: thorwil: http://www.flickr.com/photos/codedragon/2518184845/ <<< point taken
<_MMA_> hahahahah
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> Before I cut my hair.
<_MMA_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/metalmusicaddict
<macvr> _MMA_: have to checked these icons> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
<macvr> have you?
<_MMA_> yes
<macvr> cute family album... :)
 * _MMA_ needs to update.
<macvr> how old is ur son? kinda seems like a mischievous one :P
<_MMA_> Gabe is 5. Olivia is 7.
<macvr> _MMA_: would love to do graffiti someday... have u ?
<_MMA_> No. Just have alot of artist friends.
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-06-14
<thorwil> morning!
<thorwil> kwwii, looks like we really have to split the Backgrounds page now. damn "wiki surge protection". it's rather a protection against just bloody working
 * thorwil sends mail about that
<macvr> _MMA_: why have you removed the icons? is it because they have been accepted/rejected ?
<macvr> from wiki
<_MMA_> macvr: Some, because they have sat too long. Some because I am uploading. Mostly because people are adding things unnecessarily and its triggering the surge protection *WAY* too much.
<macvr> :) yeah i had that prob a couple of times !... btw do u have the "new" .svg  sebastien had done?
<_MMA_> The ones using his glyph?
<macvr> yes
<_MMA_> And though I removed them from the wiki, the attachments are still there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions?action=AttachFile
<_MMA_> kwwii: When you make a go at getting Breathe into Universe?
<kwwii> ouch, someone remind me how I got home last night and why I feel like such shit
<_MMA_> hahaha
<kwwii> _MMA_: we could do that tomorrow
<kwwii> no thinking for today
<_MMA_> kwwii: Ok. Ill be working tomorrow though.
<_MMA_> Im sure you can handle it.
<macvr> i wanted to use the green color gradient he had done, for the defaults emblem, i dont like my color !... the svg aint there , i'v checked, was hoping you had it so i could finish it today. ... he seems to be away :(
<_MMA_> macvr: If you can get the page up, the SVGs are there.
<_MMA_> Or, at least the pngs.
<macvr> he just uploaded the png
<_MMA_> Then email him directly.
<_MMA_> Ill just tell him to get online. :P
<macvr> he seems to be away...
<_MMA_> (I hope he didnt have anything to do today)
<macvr> _MMA_: done uploading your icons?
<_MMA_> macvr: He's *rarely* on IRC/Gmail/Jabber.
<_MMA_> I've made my uploads yes. I have to hunt down some issues with a symlink though.
<_MMA_> But that's the packaging branch.
<macvr> oh!
<_MMA_> The places menu is showing a Human icon for a flash drive where Nautilus displays a Breathe one. Very odd.
<_MMA_> As this just happened. (maybe I just saw it)
<macvr> anyone feedback on this> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/emblem-readonly1.png
<macvr> _MMA_: ^ ?
<_MMA_> Too flat. Unrealistic.
<_MMA_> macvr: I think the "new" glyph you want is here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebreathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk/download/head:/mailmessagenew.svg-20090507000204-eqi1ooffc4prnbkc-4/mail-message-new.svg
<macvr> thats not the one... sebastien had done with a different green, that was nice and bright
<_MMA_> Ok.
<macvr> _MMA_: any ideas on how to make the lock better?
<_MMA_> macvr: Make it photo-realistic.
<macvr> its the emblem
<_MMA_> Ahh... You must mention that. ;)
<macvr> i thought u might have read the label
<macvr> you^
<_MMA_> macvr: I see. Let me wrap up this email to the list and I'll think.
<macvr> its the emblem-readonly icon...
<macvr> ok
<macvr> thorwil: hi... :) if you are not busy....feedback on this for emblem-readonly icon> http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/emblem-readonly1.png ?
<thorwil> macvr, it's either too flat or not flat enough
<thorwil> macvr, make it more realistic or more symbolic
<macvr> for emblem making it more flat would be better right?
<knome> the smallest size looks way the best
<macvr> i was actually aiming at getting that right first
<macvr> knome: arent the 16px more used for emblems?
<knome> i suppose so, but all the sizess have to look good
<macvr> actually i went overboard with the gradients with the bigger sizes... i'm make them like the 16px
<macvr> :)
<thorwil> macvr, flat or realistic emblems is a stylistic decision that should be made once ...
<_MMA_> I address this in my coming email. (any min now)
<_MMA_> "Cruft, stuff and other junk..." coming down now.
<macvr> how is this > http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/emblem-readonly2.png
<_MMA_> macvr: No. I think we should go photo-realistic on this.
<macvr> _MMA_: ok.
<_MMA_> If anyone here is interested in/working on Breathe, check your email.
<_MMA_> I'm going to the grocery store. I'll be back soon. (give you guys time to reply)
<spg76> Hi
 * _MMA_ waves and heads out.
<macvr> spg76: hi... could you upload the new .svg... i wan to  use the gradients for the emblem default?
<macvr> the green you had used was bright and warm
<spg76> macvr: Oh, ok. I thoughtÂ Â you want to use the symbol and it's not the final icon until we decide it
<spg76> I'll send you a "new " file right away.
<macvr> no... i liked the color, i have the emblem ready but the colors i choose just aernt that good :(
<macvr> :)
<spg76> macvr: sent
<macvr> spg76: got it :) thanx
<macvr> spg76: regarding the calender... the problem why the numbers/lines are blurry is because they cut the pixels a lot...
<spg76> macvr: that's why I remove the numbers as Andrew suggested
<macvr> but then it looks hollow... i thought maybe if you got them aligned it might look better.
<macvr> only the 128px could have the numbers
<macvr> the 48px could have the dots... but the 128 looks very empty
<spg76> macvr: I thought about that and maybe I'll add the numbers to the 128px on a future revision but I don't know about the dots in the 48px
<spg76> I use them in the 32px and I don't like how it looks.
<_MMA_> spg76: Just a note, I upped the one w/numbers. Can always be changed later.
 * _MMA_ also has to see what the trash icon used on some dialogs is called.
<macvr> _MMA_: the smileys> i didnt pay much attention to the 128px , for the smaller sizes adding more shine more detail didnt make much difference in the png output. so i removed whatever extra stuff i did for them and maintained the same for the 128px... but as you say its not fully there, i'll add details to the 128px
<macvr> _MMA_: emblems> u want the symbolic-link one in white/grey?
<_MMA_> macvr: Please reply in email.
<macvr> AW!
<_MMA_> macvr: You'll learn. ;) IRC is fine for quick chat. But for things that require, lengthy text replies, the list is best. Especially when replying to a email like the one I sent.
<spg76> _MMA_: I think the icon it's in actions
<spg76> editdelete
<spg76> edit-delete
<spg76> gtk-delete
<spg76> stock_delete
<spg76> _MMA_: the trash icon :)
<_MMA_> spg76: That's what I was thinking. I think Daniel is working on that so I'll leave it be for now.
<spg76> I gotta run
<spg76> I'll try to get here later
<spg76> See you later.
<macvr> _MMA_: sent mail...
<macvr> ^I'v
<macvr> if u have replied, ping me, my mail client checks only once an hour
<_MMA_> I'm replying now.
<_MMA_> macvr: Sent. It's there.
<macvr> _MMA_: i mant ETA for when you want the emotes/emblems! when do you plan next release?
<macvr> ^meant
<_MMA_> I have no plan really.
<_MMA_> Well, once some things are fixed and more icons round out the set, I'll do another release.
<_MMA_> Just depends on the quality and amount of the submissions.
<macvr> _MMA_: hei...! then why are you pushing me around :P
<_MMA_> macvr: Because you're my slave.
<macvr> _MMA_: i'm not sure i can do the emotes-glasses... i'll try but i almost sure i wont do a good job
 * macvr whipped!
<_MMA_> macvr: Do what you can. If it comes down to it, someone else can refine. But don't take that as license to give up.
<macvr> _MMA_: OK... just as a rough timeline... give me 2 weeks for the rest of the emotes
<_MMA_> k
 * macvr whipped back to emblems :P
<macvr> _MMA_: before you go... i'm working on this... its not complete, the colors/shades are still not done, but does this work for emblems-default?  http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/emblem-default6.png
<_MMA_> Hmm... I'm unsure.
<_MMA_> Doesn't grab me. The check mark feels odd.
<macvr> the default emblem was the check mark so i did this... well i'll upload it when its done and then u can decide... i didnt want to do straight lines
<thorwil> macvr: you should work on the bend a bit
<macvr> as in? make it curve more?
<thorwil> macvr: make it look good ;)
<macvr> :P
<macvr> that i'm never gonna !
<macvr> thorwil: i always just stcuk trying not to make it too different between the sizes... maybe i should be more free at the larger sizes?
<macvr> ^stcuk
<macvr> ^stuck!
<_MMA_> macvr: Try to do this style: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Ebreathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk/download/head:/dialogerror.png-20090610220345-fdt85tf0id2yj8zx-8/dialog-error.png
<macvr> _MMA_: for default?
<_MMA_> Look here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~breathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk/files/head%3A/source_svg/rendered and look at the dialog-* images.
<_MMA_> For style.
<_MMA_> Actually, why aren't you just doing a check mark? That would be more fitting with your current work right?
<macvr> aw... i didnt think of that! but i wanted to use the hexagon!
<_MMA_> macvr: Consistency must always be kept in mind.
<macvr> :P ... i'll see with just the check mark
<macvr> but i felt that the hexagon kinda fit for default.
<macvr> _MMA_: that whole dialogue icons were not in the last release! i'll try to make them look similar. but does the emblem have to be similar to dialogue icons?
<_MMA_> macvr: Then subscribe to the changes to the BZR branches. ;)
<_MMA_> There are things that would help to make the look consistent throughout the set. This, might be one of them.
<_MMA_> And ultimately, I have to think about that vs. simply accepting an submission because someone did the work.
<_MMA_> We are starting to have style issues here and there.
<macvr> how do i subscribe to bazaar changes?
<macvr> do i have to setup an account?
<_MMA_> Are you on Launchpad?
<macvr> s
<_MMA_> Have an account?
<macvr> yes
<macvr> https://launchpad.net/~drkvi-a
<_MMA_> Look on far right: https://code.launchpad.net/~breathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk
<macvr> oh... its in the code section... i usually stay clear of that... ok... thanks
<_MMA_> np
<_MMA_> macvr: Also note that subscribing to the wiki changes (which I know you do) will help. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
<_MMA_> I usually add the icons to the wiki at the same time I add to BZR.
<macvr> :)
<macvr> cheeky little notifier on top!
<macvr> no privacy :P
<macvr> _MMA_: did u check the submissions?
<_MMA_> Not yet.
<macvr> how is the default emblem now? better?
<_MMA_> I don't know. Just not grabbing me atm. As it's Sunday night and I'm winding down I really can't make a solid opinion.
<macvr> ok then... take your time... i'll catch you later... :)
<_MMA_> Actually, I'd rather others chime in. It's alot of weight managing all this and sometimes I want to see what others say before I jump in. Helps me a bit.
<_MMA_> ok.
<_MMA_> I should log off actually. Later
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-14
<thorwil> http://durian.blender.org/news/rende-previews/
<iperatoner> hey there
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-17
<Brian> what are some of the best tools for creating artwork for... say... dialog box layout, welcome screen box and what are the specifications?
<thorwil> http://durian.blender.org/goodies/concept-art-dragons/
<thorwil> ubuntu should _so_ have a vuvuzela start-up sound!!
<hyperair> vuvuzela?
 * thorwil looks at the rock hyperair is living under
<hyperair> it's cosy here. don't you want to come in? =)
 * thorwil prefers hos own rock
<zniavre> http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.noe-nordberg.com/florian/cms/public/index.php%3Fcmd%3Dimage%26id%3D4&imgrefurl=http://www.noe-nordberg.com/florian/cms/public/index.php%3Fcmd%3Dsmarty%26id%3D14_len&usg=__gnrXwjj1nKs7OuKz0WPvPGqKIuY=&h=324&w=243&sz=19&hl=fr&start=12&sig2=89lADFB18ulFIlqIJ4gBnQ&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=FkuvOoFjuuqD-M:&tbnh=118&tbnw=89&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvuvuzela%2Bsound%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dfr%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=cn0a
<zniavre> TMvgF8mI4Qa55ZSfCg
<zniavre> ooops sorrry for that
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> proving that nobody except thorwil and myself are watching footbal
<kwwii> l
<kwwii> hyperair: american or canadian by any chance?
<hyperair> kwwii: malaysian.
<kwwii> lol, well so much for cultural bias
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> I'm american but have lived in germany for 15 years
<kwwii> 15 years ago I would not have known anything about football
<kwwii> now I do :p
<kwwii> the vuvuzela is the horn that *everyone* attending the world cup matches in south africa are blowing
<kwwii> they play a B or flat C note...really annoying
<kwwii> very loud
<hyperair> i'm chinese but have lived in malaysia for all my life ;-)
<kwwii> that is how the world works :p
<hyperair> i see.
<kwwii> I have met so many people from so many parts of the world through ubuntu
<kwwii> it is really amazing
<kwwii> half of the people I meet say "I am from X but live in Y"
<kwwii> for whatever reasons
<kwwii> hey ian_brasil: haven't seen anything on the list lately...are there any art needs from your side we could help with?
<ian_brasil> kwwii: hey kwwii ..we will just use the default plasma-mobile shell for now
<ian_brasil> but thanks for the offer
<ian_brasil> probably for maverick +1 we will want to modify the defaults a bit
<kwwii> ian_brasil: cool, plasma is really easy to theme so if you need anything please let me know :-)
<kwwii> night all
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-18
<zniavre_> http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/9526/captureaah.png
<kwwii> zniavre_: that is a regression in the code :-( We're looking into it
<vish> kwwii: hi , remember , you mentioned that the zniavre's earlier problem with murrine button lighting was solved in the latest code ?[buttons being taller]  it is still present in certain places, eg: the dropdown arrow indicator buttons
<vish> the one  "v" indicator buttons , next to the back/forward button in nautilus or the one next to "New" in evo
<kwwii> vish: hrm, probably want to ping cimi about that then
<kwwii> or file a bug
<vish> yeah,
<vish> ;p
<vish> kwwii: or bug the employer ;)
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> I wish he was working for us
<kwwii> :-)
 * kwwii takes a long lunch break to watch Germany vs Serbia
<zniavre_> vish,  i fixed the "worrie" with glazestyle =0
<zniavre_> it fit my theme but it's not a real fiw for others
<vish> zniavre_: hmm , the drop-down indicators aernt fixed by changing that option though :(
<vish> kwwii: zniavre_: filed bug ;)  https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621981
<ubot2> Gnome bug 621981 in general "Drop-down indicators have wrong lighting [Buttons which are taller than wider have wrong gradient]" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<zniavre_> vish,  even if you changing the toolbar to flat
<zniavre_> ?
<zniavre_> i can't see another apps with this dropdown indicator do you know one (other than nautilus) ?
<kwwii> vish: perfect,thanks
<zniavre_> http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4331/screenshot1it.png
<zniavre_> it's old "bug" that cimi already knows
<kwwii> hrm
<zniavre_> it happen also with the volume button into rhythmbox no?
<vish> zniavre_: yeah , the bug was never solved, I was also using the glazestyle=0 in my theme,[which solves the rest of the buttons] but the drop-down indicators are always a problem
<vish> rather I'm still using glazestyle=0
<zniavre_> this is only into one toolbar no ?
<vish> yeah
<zniavre_> toolbarstyle		= 0
<zniavre_> try this option too maybe
<vish> zniavre_: could you update humanity from lucid-proposed?  and confirm the bugs are fixed?
<vish> ex: Bug 570124
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 570124 in humanity-icon-theme (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 3 other projects) "Indicator-sound's volume zero image is incorrectly aligned (affects: 2) (heat: 14)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570124
 * vish shouldnt probably saw fixed for own "fixes" ;)
<vish> err , s/saw/say
<zniavre_> i hav to install it first   :o) wait a sec
<zniavre_> http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3882/capturemb.png   > look at the gedit small arrow
<zniavre_> it looks as other selected buttons (eg Rhythmbox)
<vish> weird :s
<zniavre_> :o)
<zniavre_> damned xorg is updating too....
<zniavre_> i will need to reboot and reinstall nvidia driver it will take 2more mn
<zniavre> vish the volume icon must not move from low volume to mute ?
<zniavre> i saw before rebooting it moves on the left side but now it stays in same place ,i guess it's good no?
<zniavre> (not mute but volume at 0)**
<vish> zniavre: yup , if it doesnt move it is good :)
<zniavre> so it's good
<vish> zniavre: same fix for Bug 568819
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 568819 in ubuntu-mono (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 4 other projects) "Icon spacing on volume panel is messy (affects: 2) (heat: 20)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568819
<zniavre> with ubuntu-mono it's also good
<vish> zniavre: yeah , u-m doesnt need an update
<vish> zniavre: oh , could comment on the bug that it works right, only then it will be uploaded :)
<vish> rather, someone /has/ to comment before being uploaded ;)
<zniavre> to humanity or ubuntu-mono ?
<zniavre> vish,  done .
<vish> thanks
<zniavre> by the way im not sure to understand if ubuntu-mono has the same bug
<zniavre> (has is correct ?)
<vish> zniavre: actually the bug reporter filed bug about humanity , but it became mixed up and jumbled ;)
<vish> zniavre: the reporter mentions that the space on the volume0 icon side is more , but he filed bug in ubuntu-mono.. reporter's screenshot is of humanity
<vish> upload is for humanity only
<zniavre> ok
<cjohnston> kwwii: ping
<kwwii> cjohnston: hi
<cjohnston> hey there!
<kwwii> I know, I haven't written anything up yet
<cjohnston> any update on the info for the community page?
<cjohnston> heh
<cjohnston> theres my answer
<kwwii> to be honest, it was a lot more than I thought it would be
<cjohnston> sorry :-/
<kwwii> I'll get something together asap
<kwwii> if anyone else wants to help me write something: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityContributePages#Artists is what we need
<zniavre> i just switched theme (to reload first one) but it changed the metacity button layout, is it regular behavior ?i never saw that before
<kwwii> oh well, time for sleep
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-06-20
<zniavre_> good morning
<zniavre_> there is a good way to clean the slider of indicator-sound-applet?
<vish> islington: hi , have you tested the fix for the humanity icon?
<vish> Bug 566996
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 566996 in humanity-icon-theme (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "Humanity in KDE does not display volume icons. (affects: 1) (heat: 14)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566996
<islington> not yet I will try it out tonight
<islington> actually I am working on getting elementary all the symlinks for it to just work in kde
<vish> islington: neat , once you have tested it , do comment on the bug , there are a couple of fixes tied in there
<islington> okies
<vish> islington: ah , not sure we can add more icons for an SRU , but for Maverick
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-13
<doctormo> palhmbs: xorg.conf isn't needed any more
<doctormo> You should use xsetwacom
<palhmbs> I tried xsetwacom
<palhmbs> it doesn't detect it :(
<palhmbs> it's a serial port A3 wacom intous3
<palhmbs> works on a Win XP machine fine
<palhmbs> I'd really appreciate some tips on how to troubleshoot
<palhmbs> but I'm using debian 6 at the moment
<palhmbs> and trying to get a website design finished
<palhmbs> I found a ubuntu forum thread that I thought would help
<palhmbs> but it was giving directions to change xorg.conf
<palhmbs> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=298705
<doctormo> palhmbs: Hmm, I have some bad news for you, the serial wacom tablets are no longer supported.
<doctormo> You have to use a previous version of the driver, which means a previous version of xorg, which means a previous version of Ubuntu.
<doctormo> I think Jaunty or Karmic might support them.
<palhmbs> What the!!
<palhmbs> that stupid
<palhmbs> s/that/that's/
<palhmbs> why, oh why did they drop them?
<palhmbs> can't I compile the old driver on my newer debian based distro?
<palhmbs> doctormo, can you give me a reference for this bad news?
<palhmbs> cause this is very upsetting
<palhmbs> I had the chance of buying a USB adaptor for it too...
<palhmbs> and thought I didn't need it.
<palhmbs> where's the wacom #channel - I want to moan :P
<doctormo> palhmbs: Give me a second to confirm it
<palhmbs> doctormo, thanks for your help btw
<doctormo> When I was talking to ping (who works for Wacom on the linux driver) she said the serial port devices, except for the PnP ones, are dropped.
<palhmbs> except for the PnP ones, maybe that's hope?
<palhmbs> oh well, I guess I'll have to reboot into WinXP and use it there.
<palhmbs> pity, but that's the same issue with my non-sane compliant scanner.
<palhmbs> bbl
<doctormo> palhmbs: Hang on
<doctormo> Add http://paste.ubuntu.com/625598/ to /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/51-wacom-serial.conf and update the ttyS number for your device. Restart computer and tell me if it works.
<doctormo> It's important that you tell me so I can update various people on it's workingness.
<doctormo> (also what you're using, Debian etc)
<palhmbs> thanks doctormo !!
<palhmbs> trying now...
<palhmbs> doctormo, how can I tell which port I'm supposed to use?
<palhmbs> or should it be trial and error?
<palhmbs> I've tried ttySO
<palhmbs> which doesn't work :(
<palhmbs> i did notice a 20-wacom.conf file in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/
<palhmbs> # WALTOP needs a patched kernel driver, that isn't in mainline lk yet
<palhmbs> interesting
<palhmbs> this is in debian 6
<palhmbs> I'll boot into lubuntu 11.04 and try those instructions out there
<palhmbs> bbs
<palhmbs> doctormo, no fun :(
<palhmbs> fyi - the package i have installed is: xserver-xorg-input-wacom 1:0.10.11-0ubuntu4
<palhmbs> trying ttyS1 now....
<palhmbs> looks like I'll have to down-grade to get wacom linux support.
<doctormo> palhmbs: OK, so that didn't work?
<palhmbs> no
<palhmbs> I tried both com ports
<doctormo> What serial port is your device plugged into?
<palhmbs> how do I find that out
<palhmbs> ?
<palhmbs> I think my mb only supports 1
<doctormo> OK so you have a /dev/ttyS0 Make sure that's a zero and not an Oh
<doctormo> Can you also report your xorg log back to me?
<palhmbs> ttyS0 - check complete - valid
<doctormo> NOTE: Only ISDV4 serial devices (TabletPC's) are currently supported by xf86-input-wacom (Xserver 1.7 or later). A patch set by John Tsiombikas & Sebastian Berthold for the serial tablets needs further development before inclusion into xf86-input-wacom.
<doctormo> http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/linuxwacom/index.php?title=FAQ#Which_devices_are_supported.3F
<doctormo> OK that confirms what I know about it, maybe I can patch you up a ppa deb though...
<palhmbs> doctormo, -- xorg paste -- http://paste.ubuntu.com/625642/
<palhmbs> would you? - I was just seriously considering installing Ubuntu 9.10....
<palhmbs> I'd be eternally grateful to the you and the ubuntu team!!
<doctormo> Heh, don't go heaping praise on the Ubuntu team ;-) I'm just a random programmer and artist.
<doctormo> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=isoeic%24cum%241%40dough.gmane.org&forum_name=linuxwacom-discuss
<doctormo> So. from what I can tell.
<doctormo> There are a bunch of non developers who have serial wacoms
<doctormo> Very few programmers do
<doctormo> So there are multiple patches all over the place to get it working with specific versions of the xinput wacom driver.
<doctormo> You might have to go on an adventure.
<palhmbs> o.O
<palhmbs> sounds fun
<palhmbs> unfortunately, I've got even less time now for such a frolic
<doctormo> Yeah, it's a hard one. The wacom project is starving, much like most foss projects.
<palhmbs> $$
<palhmbs> but everybody loves free
<palhmbs> just not enought to monetarily support it enough
<palhmbs> s/enought/enough/
<palhmbs> if only this would work in lubuntu 11.04 -- http://gtk-apps.org/content/show.php/Wacom+Control+Panel?content=104309
<doctormo> It doesn't work on ubuntu 11.04 either
<doctormo> Not that it would help you anyway
<palhmbs> dammit, I wish I could code python better than I do
<palhmbs> I would consider hacking up some support in these myself!!
<doctormo> It's all C code anyway, what would a python script be able to do?
<palhmbs> :-o
<palhmbs> er yeah - /facepalm
<doctormo> (the wacom driver, not the utill)
<doctormo> Although the C code doesn't look hard, it's just missing a developer who actually had one of the devices.
<doctormo> I find it funny that I manage the wizardpen driver ppa and yet I don't own one. Dumb luck that a roving developer pops by each release to fix it for me. random!
<palhmbs> doctormo, I think the best and easiest option for me & you and everybody else is to buy a USB adaptor.
<palhmbs> :P
<palhmbs> which I will go ahead and do shortly
<doctormo> Yes, if that works, let me know and I will change my default recommendation to that.
<palhmbs> I can wait, at least we know that it'll work on USB.
<palhmbs> afaict
<Islington> my wrist is starting to hurt
<Islington> :(
<coz_> hey guys
<hbons> where can i find guidelines on making monochrome icons for the unity panel?
<coz_> hbons,   good question,,, not sure but they do appear to be similar to  faenza icons
<hbons> coz_: that's good, but they don't really have a style description either :)
<Islington> what was the question?
<coz_> hbons,  yeah ,, not sure ,, exactly,, however you could try asking in  #ayatana  channel,,, that is the development channel for Unity
<hbons> yea, i did yesterday, but got no reply
<Islington> hbons: what was the question?
<coz_> hbons,  ")  not completely surprised
<hbons> Islington: i'm trying to find guidelines for the mono style icons
<Islington> ooh hold on they are in the wiki somewhere iirc
<hbons> oh
<Islington> ping vish dashua Icon question yo
<vish> hbons: nah, there is no wiki guidelines, basically you can loook at the svg and figure out the colors
<vish> rather guidelines on wki
<hbons> that's a bit lame...
<vish> bah! wiki*
<hbons> and sizes?
<hbons> where do i install them?
<vish> hbons: 22px are used in the panel
<coz_> hbons,  well inkscape will automatically open the icon in the size  they were created in
<hbons> vish: ok, you know gnome is deprecating that size?
<vish> hbons: yea :)
<hbons> good :)
<vish> hbons: anyway you guys dont consider anything Ayatana Gnome.. ;)
<hbons> ok, thanks people :)
<Islington> vish hbons https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/HumanityIcons/Guidelines#Panel%20Icons
<vish> Islington: thats what *i* did for Humanity , hbons is asking about ubuntu-mono
<hbons> vish: well, it would be easier for everyone to just have to maintain one icon size for it
<hbons> and it's a bit silly that two kinds of status icons have to be maintained at the moment...
<vish> :)
<Islington> if its at 22px technically you could force kde to use them as well
<hbons> but i don't make the decision on that, but i would like to make theming issues better. i just installed ubuntu and was kind of shocked how that stuff is done :)
<coz_> hbons,  my guess is that will be worked out by 12.04  hopefully sooner
<vish> hbons: symbolic icon support just landed with GNOME3 so stuff might change, but since we cant do that in GNOME2 we did it as 2 themes
<hbons> Islington: yea, but 22x22 doesn't make sense as a size anyway
<hbons> (sticking to multiples of 8)
<hbons> vish: yea, that would be good, it's a huge hack right now
<coz_> hbons,  multiples of 8 ?
<vish> 16, 24, 32, 48
<coz_> hbons,  24..32..40?
<Islington> hbons: wasnt there a big thingie with 24 vs 22 a while back?
<hbons> Islington: not sure
<coz_> multiples of 8 would lead to an icons size of 32 .. 40  ...yes?
<hbons> but the end result is the same artwork wise anyway, just with different padding
<hbons> coz_: we don't have 40
<coz_> hbons,  I realize that  but multiples of 8 would asume  32 ..40
<hbons> no, it doesn't have to follow each ste
<hbons> step
<hbons> but 32 is 2x16, 48 2x16 etc
<hbons> eh 2x24
<coz_> :)
<hbons> there's also 64 and 128, 256 for hires
<vish> hbons: what did you mean by Â» http://twitter.com/#!/hbons/status/80006110882435072 ?
<coz_> I prefer working in 256  in inkscape and reducing it when finished
<hbons> vish: refering to the mono icon theme on top of a 'normal' theme to make things work
<vish> hbons: the two themes or anything else?  most of the hacks there are mine more due to not having symbolic icon support :D
<hbons> and the tarball basically extrated in the icons direcotory, which is messy
<hbons> vish: i know :)
<coz_> my only question is why unity's  ccsm is still using that damn purple icon instead of the one originally designed for it,, the only answer I got was " Unity is a project"
<hbons> hehe
<vish> coz_: i think it was a MarkDecisionâ¢  ;)
<hbons> vish: hacks are attractive in the short term, but cause a lot if pain longterm :)
<coz_> vish,  oh?  another  bad one
<vish> hbons: agreed, but folks wanted them right now 3-4 cycles back, and who would have hacked the symbolic support, I'm not a hacker ;)
<hbons> canonical should have dedicated someone to it
<hbons> cause now everyone will have to port their icons icon when gnome 3 symbolc lands
<hbons> s/icon/again
<Islington> hbons: they could go deeper into the rabbit hell and symlink
<hbons> Islington: are you islingt0ner on twitter?
<coz_> hbons,  you didnt know  that "grapics" of any kind are considered the "fun" part of a project ? :)
<Islington> yes
<vish> hbons: i mentioned this a while back itself when having the panel icons named -panel and to instead use -symbolic names; but they just told we can change names later
<hbons> Islington: ah cool :)
<vish> hbons: back when humanity introduced the monochrome itself..
<coz_> graphics
<hbons> vish: ah, and the official suffix is -symbolic now? to be installed in hicolor?
<vish> hbons: afaik, the indicator hasnt yet been changed to use -symbolic names and not sure it supports it yet
<vish> hbons: GNOME3/GTK3 has only started landing.. i need to upgrade and do it later in the cycle when stuff is stable
<hbons> ok, so i'll just add whatever suffix and refer to that?
<vish> hbons: yea
<hbons> vish: ok cool, sorry to be a bit too harsh, i see that they're not telling you a lot :)
<vish> :)
<Islington> welcome to our world
<hbons> there's always a place for you in #gnome-design ey ;)
<vish> hbons: its a bit of a communications hell at times; cause stuff might change any moment and nothing is official until it is really official ;)
<hbons> vish: yea, are there any other canonical design team members that work in the open except mpt and ivanka (who's now left)?
<vish> hbons: i thing you reached the end of the list there.. ;)
<vish> think*
<thorwil> *sneef*
<hbons> :(
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-14
<isforinsects> This may be the wrong place for this, if it is, please send me elsewhere.  How would I go about generating a psf out of the lovely ubuntu beta mono font?
<isforinsects> open-font-design-toolkit ?
<coz_> good day
<zniavre> good afternoon coz_
<coz_> zniavre,  hey guy :)
<zniavre> good new for you gnome3 is working great now with compiz (invisible windows seems fixed
<coz_> zniavre,  excellent :)
<coz_> zniavre,   and darkmatter also said compiz works on the fallback mode  :)
<zniavre> ho
<zniavre> yes in this mode it works
<zniavre> caramba too late ...
<coz_> zniavre,  cool
<zniavre> but im totally hardware obsolete to use unity and/or gnome-shell
<zniavre> im thinking to buy a new agp gfx (after holiday)
<coz_> zniavre,  cool... which one?  nvidia or ati?
<zniavre> i do not know the cheaper one for 512mo at least (im thinking ati to use radeon/radeonhd open source drivers)
<coz_> zniavre,   cool.. I dont know much about ati cards,, but I hear the open source drivers have improved.,.
<zniavre> yes
<zniavre> im nvidia user since 7 years on linux/ubuntu
<coz_> zniavre,  yeah , same here,, :)
<zniavre> im trying oneiric on another partition but since the new 3.0 kernel i can't use anymore the nvidia-173 driver
<zniavre> and nouveau is a bit slow with flash (on my pc)
<zniavre> im trying to find some informations about lightdm theming but it looks very difficult   :o(
<coz_> zniavre,  oo I will have to try it at some point...
<hbons1> vish: http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Selection_0013.png
<hbons1> that's why proper guidelines are needed :P
<vish> hbons1: agreed! ;)
<Islington> upper limit for icon is 512 right now?
<vish> Islington: GNOME has 256 max; but what do you mean by upper limit?
<Islington> I mean I dont want to retweak this svg for bigger sizes more than I have to
<vish> Islington: you should be safe with 256, afaik, there is no place in GNOME which needs icons bigger than 256
<Islington> k thanks :)
<vish> np.. :)
<Islington> hbons1: the comments are the best part about that blog:
<Islington> Tom Slominski, 14 year old blogger and extremely small scale web developer from the UK. Collapse
<Islington> I think devs should think more about different distros and making their apps compatible with them. I mean, not every distro, but Ubuntu it's the most popular one, so come on!
<hbons1> Islington: yeaâ¦ the commants areâ¦ special
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-15
<coz_> hey guys..who came up with the origianl ubuntu logo design?   seems it is being used by several companies in some form
<coz_> this is not news,,  just accidentally saw a few posts about it :)
<thorwil> coz_: not news indeed, it has a beard that reaches from to 3 floors below. not to forget that some examples might predate the CoF
<coz_> thorwil,  lol  yeah I know,, it was just interesting,,
<coz_> thorwil,  considering that "international" copyright laws arent often recognized  it is not surprising
<coz_> international copyrights are even worse at times
<coz_> rather patent laws
<thorwil> oh well, i'll be in the garden, trimming a hedge :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-06-16
<sowngold> i want to install unity in ubuntu 10.04.2. Can you help me?
<vish> thorwil: http://twitter.com/#!/conscioususer/status/80303187084587009 , (incase you havnt seen it)
<thorwil> vish: no, i don't follow twitter. ty. if only there had been some support on the list in discussion with a certain idiot (which motivated me to that post)
<vish> thorwil: ;p
<vish> thorwil: yea, i noticed you got angry there, but i guess not having folks counter you is also a good sign ;)
<coz_> hey.. not to meaning to sound critical,,  but are there any americans on the design team?
<vish> coz_: hmm, afaik, nope
<coz_> vish,   again I dont want to sound critical ,, however,, seems to me,, that at least one representative from each country,, bringing in their own cultural visions,, would be more appropropriate ..
<vish> coz_: indeed, might be a good idea.. but depends on what "the appropriate" is :)
<vish> what the fudsickle!! drop box just updated and began to use the indicator!!!
<coz_> oh?
<coz_> let me check
<coz_> vish,  not updating here
<vish> \o/ i'm special!!
<vish> ;p
<coz_> vish, :)
<vish> coz_: i'm on maverick
<coz_> vish,  ah ok I am on natty
<coz_> so I guess mine is already updated :)
<vish> yea, it was odd watching the icon switch from the notification area to indicator automatically, i dint accept any "Update"
<vish> i'm loosing control of my sys!! sky is falling!!
<coz_> vish,  :)
<coz_> vish,  I was looking at these videos     http://www.youtube.com/celebrateubuntu   when it struck me that the designs are  seemingly  " not catchy"  for my eye.. "cubical"  in a sense,,  I saw an austrailian ubuntu advertisement for 10.10  and it was quite remarkably well done
<coz_> vish,  I could be in a strange mood today though :)
<vish> coz_: IMO, you need to make it your regular mood ;)
<coz_> vish,  oh?  why is that?
<vish> coz_: to find more " not catchy" things :)
<coz_> vish,  so having a somewhat critical eye is good then I suppose :)
<vish> :)
<vish> coz_: the BGM is really crappy! i've seen the "Introducing Ubuntu" during UDS and it had a waaay cooler BGM, this one just sucks balls(Cartman) ;p
<coz_> oh! ok
<coz_> vish,  I like the "cartman"  reference  :)
<coz_> vish,  he is truly an evil little kid :)
<vish> yea! he is awesome!  :)
<thorwil> there's this requirement for all the design team people to be in london ...
<thorwil> though i'm not sure that that video would be particularly british or european
<thorwil> maybe an US video would have to include some talking heads with big wig and be super-sized? ;)
<vish> i think the BGM was the most lame part of those videos, we have public access TV here and it sounds nearly as lame sound :/
<vish>  with some better BGM it would surely not be so boring..
<thorwil> yeah, BGM like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0o9Qimfsgo ;)
<vish> thorwil: hahha!! that would be awesome
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-06-14
<NightOwl217> Why Hello.
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-06-15
<NightOwl217> hello
<iainfarrell> howdy :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2013-06-15
<plankton> The link for mail list archives is broken.
<plankton> http://www.nabble.com/ubuntu-art-f12728.html
