#edubuntu 2005-10-31
* KurtKraut is away (Estou ausente. Responderei seu PVT assim que puder. Tenha prefe)
* KurtKraut is away (Estou ausente. Responderei seu PVT assim que puder. Tenha prefe)
* KurtKraut is away (Estou ausente. Responderei seu PVT assim que puder. Tenha prefe)
<odie5533> What is edubuntu's mission statement?
<odie5533> Hmm is anyone actually here?
<phiqtion> edubuntu looks cool
<phiqtion> can i add it to gnome and kde?
* ajmitch_ would say that the core people are on their way to UBZ in Montreal :)
<odie5533> What for ajmitch_ ?
<ajmitch_> odie5533: UbuntuBelowZero developer summit 
<odie5533> ah
* ajmitch_ is heading there on friday
<odie5533> ajmitch_, are you familiar with edubuntu?
<ajmitch_> not really, sadly
<phiqtion> edubuntu, can i add it to ubuntu and kubuntu?
<phiqtion> or is it just files?
<odie5533> phiqtion, my question exactly
<ajmitch_> phiqtion: edubuntu isn't yet another desktop
<odie5533> I don't want to change my home desktop but I want to test it out
<phiqtion> oh okay
<ajmitch_> it's a system that uses LTSP to enable thin terminal setup for a classroom, with education software & classroom management tools
<ajmitch_> hey Burgundavia 
<odie5533> My mom's class (4th grade) has a few extra pcs that aren't used. I thought edubuntu might be a good option, but I don't really want to preach something I've never actually tried
<ajmitch_> you can install a workstation or a server setup
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: you CAN istall edubuntu as a desktop
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: as I said :)
<odie5533> as a workstation on my home pc?
<Yagisan> ajmitch_ bah- lag here
<ajmitch_> odie5533: yes, if you wished
<odie5533> I wanted to try it on my pc, but I am running Ubuntu already. I don't want edubuntu to really mess up anything I have installed
* ajmitch_ hasn't done a real install :)
<Yagisan> odie5533: yeah - there should be an edubuntu-desktop package in breezy
<odie5533> If I install that, will it change, or intefere with anything else? and can I uninstall it easily?
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: which sort of corrects my earlier statement, but it's still gnome (or kde if you choose)
<Yagisan> odie5533: if you don't like it, uninstall edubuntu-desktop.
<odie5533> Will that take all it's packages with it?
<Yagisan> basically, it adds educational packages, but it should remove them if you remove edubuntu-desktop
<odie5533> it should or it will?
<Yagisan> odie5533: edubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-desktop share most core packages
<odie5533> I don't want to be stuck with half edubuntu half ubuntu pc =/
<Yagisan> odie5533: I will say should - as I've never needed to uninstall it
<Yagisan> odie5533: ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, xubuntu are all the one system
<odie5533> Yagisan, on your current desktop, do you see the edubuntu packages in the menus and such?
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: if you grab it with apt-get, apt-get won't track what was installed as a dependency
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: I though they used synaptic
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: sure, most people do :)
<Yagisan> odie5533: on this box no, on my edubuntu box, yes
<odie5533> so from ubuntu you can see the edubuntu packages? Thats what I didn't want...
<Yagisan> odie5533: I believe there are some screenshots in the wiki
<odie5533> Edubuntu has loads of dependancies. If I delete the edubuntu-desktop, will it take the dependancies with it?
<ajmitch_> odie5533: the packages are in the same archive
<Yagisan> odie5533: please re-read this ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu, xubuntu are all the one system
<odie5533> =/ they really should make a live cd
<Yagisan> odie5533: when you install eg a kubuntu app, it usually appears in all the *ubuntu menus
<odie5533> I think I'll hold off trying it then...
<Yagisan> odie5533: eg I use k3b from kubuntu, because I like it better then gnometoaster in ubuntu
<odie5533> My home pc could do without Tux Paint...
<Yagisan> odie5533: why do you want to try edubuntu ?
<odie5533> For my mom really
<odie5533> She is a teacher in a very poor area with a few pcs that don't work well
<odie5533> ^4th grade
<Yagisan> odie5533: this should work fine for her
<Yagisan> odie5533: do you have a spare pc ?
<odie5533> I don't atm
<odie5533> thats the problem
<Yagisan> odie5533: vmware ?
<odie5533> I don't have a copy =/
<Yagisan> odie5533: ok. edubuntu works exactly like ubuntu
<odie5533> How many schools use Edubuntu?
<Yagisan> odie5533: I have no idea, I ah use it for work
<odie5533> At work?
<odie5533> where do you work?
<Yagisan> odie5533: I customised it for my small business, I liked the fact that it let me reuse old pc's
<odie5533> I see
<odie5533> customised it? You must be really knowledgable of edubuntu then ;)
<Yagisan> odie5533: I wish, I'm more familiar with the non-educational side of it (I'm not a developer either)
<odie5533> Why not use plain Ubuntu?
<Yagisan> odie5533: If you install edubuntu-desktop with synaptic, it will remember what edubuntu-desktop installs
<Yagisan> odie5533: if you don't like it, remove it with synaptic and it will remove what edubuntu-desktop installs
<odie5533> It doesn't always do complete uninstalls. Leaves little config files all around my pc
<Yagisan> odie5533: select "Mark for Complete removal" in sysnaptic
<odie5533> It won't remove the dependancies
<odie5533> I'll have to go down a huge list searching for 100 packages
<Yagisan> odie5533: plain ubuntu also didn't suit me.
<Yagisan> odie5533: give me a moment - I test it
<odie5533> don't mess up your pc for me!
<Yagisan> odie5533: don't worry - I can fix it if i break it
* odie5533 sure can't :(
<Yagisan> odie5533: this will take a short while 120MB down a small pipe
<odie5533> Do you know what LSTP is?
<Yagisan> odie5533: oh yes
<odie5533> What is it?
<Yagisan> odie5533: that it the linux terminal services project
<Yagisan> odie5533: it lets you uses thin clients (or old pcs) as terminals attached to a more poerful pc
<Yagisan> *powerful
<Yagisan> the powerful computer runs all the applications
<Burgundavia> salut ajmitch_ 
<odie5533> Need a powerful pc running linux for that ;)
<Yagisan> the old pcs or thin clients boot off the network and run everything on the server
<odie5533> how powerful?
<Yagisan> odie5533: not really - how many clients are you looking at ?
<odie5533> Well my mom has 4 pc's not used in her class
<odie5533> 3 are P2's the last is a P3
<Yagisan> odie5533: a p3 is usually good for quite a few systems
<odie5533> could a p2 run edubuntu fine though?
<Yagisan> odie5533: they do need a good size of ram in the server
<odie5533> how old is an "old pc"?
<Yagisan> odie5533: depends on the clients, I use p2 300Mhz computers as the "thin client"
<Yagisan> odie5533: be back in a moment
<odie5533> ok
<Yagisan> odie5533: back again - had a potential customer enquiry
<odie5533> Ah
<odie5533> Are you able to remove all the pieces of edubuntu easily then?
<Yagisan> odie5533: testing it now - I have a nice Education and Games menu now
<Yagisan> odie5533: hmm - it didn't remove the packages
<Yagisan> odie5533: I think that is a bug in synaptic
<Yagisan> odie5533: I'll clean up my system, and test again with aptitude
<ajmitch_> Yagisan: bug, or a preference?
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: I admit I'm not too familiar with synaptic, I usually use aptitude - so I'll doublecheck if it is pebak error
<Yagisan> ajmitch_: I did however just use it on default synaptic settings
* Yagisan sighs
<Yagisan> I think I just reached my download cap - I'm only getting 5k/s downloads :(
<odie5533> what is a download cap?
<Yagisan> odie5533: It's where your isp meters exactly how much data you can download per month before they reduce your speed
<odie5533> They do that?
<Yagisan> odie5533: In Australia (and probably New Zealand too) all the isps do it (unless you pay huge amounts of money)
<odie5533> Wow. God bless america :)
<Yagisan> odie5533: we get charged for traffic too and from the US
<Yagisan> odie5533: by US isps :(
<odie5533> What?
<odie5533> What do you mean
<Yagisan> odie5533: a lot of the links to the US are owned by US companies. They charge you to use them
<odie5533> You get charged extra every time you talk to the us?
<odie5533> what kind of links?
<Yagisan> odie5533: the undersea cables
<odie5533> hah! the US owns the internet :)
<odie5533> Well you can always move to the US you know
<odie5533> So is there then an easy way to remove edubuntu?
<Yagisan> odie5533: why ? I like my free health care, my free education, my minimum wage, my guarantee of unemployment benefits if needed
<Yagisan> odie5533: well, it didn't work as planned in sysnaptic
<Yagisan> odie5533: and is going to take a while now my download speed is slowed
<Yagisan> odie5533: I easily manually removed the extra files
<Yagisan> odie5533: but it is a bit time consuming
<odie5533> Ah I think I'll try to get a hold of one of the pc's in my mom's class
<odie5533> they're gonna be thrown out if there is no good use for em anyways
<odie5533> take up too much space
<Yagisan> odie5533: I think you'll find edubuntu is cery suitable for them
<Yagisan> odie5533: one thing though
<Yagisan> odie5533: the clients NEED at least 64MB of ram
<Yagisan> odie5533: the server ideally should have about 32-64MB per user
<odie5533> ALL clients if if they don't run with the server setup?
<odie5533> what about a no-server setup? how much ram is needed?
<Yagisan> odie5533: if you do the workstation install - the clients will need minimum 128MB RAM, prefer 256MB or more
<odie5533> well this seems like a useless idea then...
<Yagisan> odie5533: how much ram do they have ?
<odie5533> they probably have 64mb each tops...
<Yagisan> odie5533: 64MB is good for a client - I use that in my clients
<odie5533> the p3 might have a 128mb
<odie5533> There is no server with a lot of RAM tho...
<Yagisan> odie5533: just use the most powerful pc as a server
<odie5533> but if it doesn't have enough ram its next to useless...
<Yagisan> odie5533: put in as much ram as you can (take excess over 64MB from the clients)
<odie5533> is there anyway to distribute all workflow among each pc?
<Yagisan> odie5533: It depends on how many clients will use the server at once
<odie5533> no no, to have each computer help eachother
<Yagisan> odie5533: currently no, possibly in a later release
<odie5533> how hard is it to setup LSTP?
<Yagisan> odie5533: its part of edubuntu - it is automatically set up on install
<Yagisan> odie5533: you do need to know what network card is in the client pc's though
<odie5533> How do I tell a server to be a server
<odie5533> and a client to be a client
<Yagisan> odie5533: do a normal install on the server
<Yagisan> odie5533: don't install anything on the clients - they will boot from floppy or cd
<Yagisan> simple :)
<odie5533> how do I boot them from floppy or cd? what floppy or cd?
<odie5533> how do I tell them to run from the server
<Yagisan> odie5533: they automatically will run from the server
<Yagisan> odie5533: see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<odie5533> what do you mean automatically
<odie5533> no they wont
<Yagisan> and http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<odie5533> they'll boot into the half destroyed copy of windows on them
<Yagisan> yes they will, if you follow those instructions
<Yagisan> trust me - I do it at work all the time
<odie5533> But there is no Edubuntu live cd?
<Yagisan> odie5533: not yet - ogra is the man to talk to about that - but he sould be on his way to the developer meeting
<Yagisan> *should
<odie5533> So I do a normal install on the first pc
<odie5533> then I just use the tutorial you wrote to boot the others off that pc
<Yagisan> odie5533: yes, on the one with the most ram, then follow the tut
<Yagisan> :)
<odie5533> And I don't need to do ANY configuring on the server pc? Can kids use the server pc along with the clients?
<Yagisan> odie5533: you may need to change the ip addresses to fit in with schools ip setup, but in most cases no
<odie5533> What is rom-o-matic?
<Yagisan> odie5533: kids can use the server pc, but I wouldn't recommend it - if they turn it off, everyone will lose there work
<Yagisan> odie5533: ah, the link didn't come up. rom-o-matic is http://www.rom-o-matic.net/
<Yagisan> odie5533: it is what makes the clients automatically boot from the server
<odie5533> Is there a way to burn a cd of the rom?
<odie5533> ^ignore that
<Velmont> I tested the LTSP thing yesterday. Worked like a charm :)
<odie5533> Is rom-o-matic specific to lstp?
<Velmont> Nope. I do not believe so :9
<Yagisan> odie5533: not at all
<odie5533> What does rom-o-matic do exactly?
<Velmont> But the computers I used as clients already had PXE, so I just plugged them in; and; hey; it worked.
<Yagisan> odie5533: starts the pc up, and gets it to look on the network for a boot image to continue loading the os
<Yagisan> odie5533: think of it as a networked boot floppy
<odie5533> How does the school network know which lstp to provide for each computer?
<Yagisan> odie5533: each classroom is self-contained in an edubuntu setup
<odie5533> So then they can not have internet access?
<Yagisan> odie5533: they only start from the one in their classroom
<Yagisan> odie5533: the server provides internet access, (it needs two nics)
<odie5533> Thats a problem.... =/
<Yagisan> odie5533: $5 will buy you a realtek card
<odie5533> I dno if it has any standard pci slots
<odie5533> I haven't had a look at them yet
<Yagisan> odie5533: it it is a normal pc, it will
<Yagisan> odie5533: or take a netcard out of a broken pc
<odie5533> The pcs I plan to use would be classified at broken pc's =P
<odie5533> So clients connect to a hub which connects to the server which connects to the internet?
<Velmont> Yep :] 
<Yagisan> basically yes
<odie5533> Hmm need a hub then
<Yagisan> or switch
<Yagisan> switch is better
<odie5533> which is cheaper?
<Velmont> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring
<Yagisan> switches now
<odie5533> This seems rather impratical you know. If the thin clients already need 64mb of memory, why not just use them as normal clients?
<odie5533> I suppose it would be more practical with a fast server...
<odie5533> How much does a server cost?
<odie5533> er... you are in australia...
<Yagisan> odie5533: take my values and halve them
<odie5533> that works
<Yagisan> odie5533: I spent about $200 on new parts, and used leftovers to build a server
<odie5533> switch is gonna cost $30-50 =/
<Yagisan> odie5533: I bought new cpu, more ram, but only because I had to (old machine had electrical fire)
<odie5533> whats the difference b/w a hub and a switch?
<Yagisan> odie5533: I don't think you could install any modern system into a machine with 64MB of ram or less
<odie5533> win98
<odie5533> well, win95
<Yagisan> odie5533: win98 is not modern, office would need 128MB to run decently
<odie5533> not the old office...
<odie5533> office 95
<Yagisan> odie5533: a hub copys all network traffic out of all ports, a switch is smarter and just sends it to the right pc
<Yagisan> odie5533: office 95 has trouble with docs from any office newer then 97
<odie5533> save as rtf?
<odie5533> Why does Edubuntu need so much RAM?
<odie5533> I thought linux was a low ram kind of os..
<Yagisan> odie5533: because it doesn't use a hard disk in the clients
<odie5533> If it did
<Yagisan> odie5533: It keeps a copy of itself on the clients to show what is happening on the server
<Yagisan> odie5533: the kernel itself only uses 12MB
<odie5533> then what else is there that uses so much that it wouldn't run well on a 32mb pc?
<Yagisan> odie5533: the rest is needed to monitor the keyboard, mouse, network
<Yagisan> odie5533: actually show a display
<odie5533> how much ram does a monitor a mouse a keyboard and a nic card use?
<Yagisan> odie5533: considering it uses x.org, it was about 40MB when I measured it
<Yagisan> odie5533: Windows based thin clients need 256MB
<odie5533> Is there anything more lightweight that x.org?
<odie5533> Windows based PC's don't need more than 64-128mb though
<Yagisan> odie5533: if you go for a manual ltsp setup, you can do it in 32mb
<Yagisan> odie5533: ANY modern (ie suppurted by MS Windows) need 256MB to boot without wearing out your disks
<odie5533> the un-modern os's (95/98) don't need that much though
<Yagisan> odie5533: although it would be good to reduce client memory useage
<odie5533> What exactly is Edubuntu designed to be run on?
<Yagisan> odie5533: 95/98 have more holes then swiss cheese
<Yagisan> odie5533: Edubunti is designed to run on older pcs (think p1 or better) as a client
<odie5533> Meh, If the pc gets hacked the only thing the hacker will get is a couple of 4th grade book reports
<Yagisan> odie5533: and another zombie box
<Yagisan> odie5533: that relays spam everywhere
<odie5533> older pcs as clients, and a lightning fast server to handle it...
<Yagisan> odie5533: well, not lightning fast, most people are using p3 servers
<odie5533> With how much ram?
<Yagisan> odie5533: most seem to be at 384-512 on the servers (with 15-30 clients or more)
<Yagisan> odie5533: at MB per client, that's quite low
<odie5533> And what on the clients then?
<odie5533> 64mb, a nic card and a p1?
<odie5533> or p2?
<Yagisan> odie5533: I don't know, my clients are 1x p2 300Mhz 64MB RAM, 1x p2 233Mhz, 64MB RAM,  1x k6/2 300Mhz, 320MB RAM
<odie5533> Is Edubuntu meant mainly for this LSTP method?
<Yagisan> odie5533: if you only have a few boxes, and won't add more, just do a workstation install
<Yagisan> odie5533: for medium/large scale, I think so
<odie5533> workstation install on each?
<Yagisan> odie5533: small scale, I'd do a workstation install on each client (if there will be say less the 5 clients)
<odie5533> The LSTP method, can the clients each have personal settings?
<Yagisan> odie5533: yes
<odie5533> Can they store files on the server? Can they use their own hard drive?
<Yagisan> odie5533: all on the server
<Yagisan> odie5533: to give an idea of how different the settings can be, my translators desktop is completely in Japanese
<Yagisan> odie5533: while mine is English
<Yagisan> odie5533: we use the same server
<odie5533> lol and it can all be stored on the server?
<Velmont> Its very cool actually... You switch pcs and they always look the same :) Have your own roaming account ;)
<odie5533> Can someone use the server though? or is it really strictly a server?
<Velmont> odie5533: You can use it...
<Yagisan> odie5533: I'm using my server right now
<odie5533> IE could my mom use the p3 as a server and like... show the kids how to do something? Or setup a test and start it for them all from the server?
<Yagisan> odie5533: as in logged in and typing to you from it
<odie5533> ^easily I mean to say
<Yagisan> odie5533: I think so, but you'll need to confirm that with ogra
<odie5533> How many people use Edubuntu?
<Yagisan> odie5533: quite a few that I'm aware of
<odie5533> in schools?
<Yagisan> odie5533: I believe that some of the south americans are using it, there is also a production deployment in some US schools
<Yagisan> odie5533: ogra is in contact with them
<odie5533> what do you mean production deployment?
<Yagisan> odie5533: It was built, tested, and now the kids are using it everyday
<odie5533> If Edubuntu is partially meant for this LSTP thing, then why isn't all the Rom-o-matic stuff included in the Edubuntu cd?
<odie5533> kids in south america, but where in US?
<odie5533> on the site it looked like there were 2 schools in the world using it...
<Yagisan> odie5533: newer network cards don't need rom-o-matic, and the website has a newer version
<Yagisan> odie5533: and there is no more room left on the cd
<odie5533> hmm
<odie5533> should have it in the repos or somethng then
<odie5533> seems like a big thing
<Yagisan> odie5533: newer cards use PXE
<odie5533> how can you tell if you have a PXE card?
<odie5533> (and what is PXE)
<Yagisan> odie5533: it gives you a boot from network prompt when you turn on the pc
<odie5533> one of your pc's is the same card as my home pc ;)
<odie5533> Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)
<Yagisan> odie5533: It's effectively a built-in networked boot floppy
<Yagisan> odie5533: It is the cheapest and most popular (I have like 6 of them around)
<odie5533> what do I download for romomatic then?
<Yagisan> first, find out what cards are in the client pcs, then follow the howto http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<Yagisan> I fixed the link for you
<odie5533> ah thankyou
* Yagisan finishes work soon :)
<odie5533> when downloading it, there are like 5 rtl8139:*'s
<odie5533> how do I know which is right?
<Yagisan> the star means any one will do
<Yagisan> as long as it starts with rtl8139, it will work
<odie5533> family	drivers/net/rtl8139
<odie5533> rtl8129	0x10ec,0x8129	Realtek 8129
<odie5533> rtl8139	0x10ec,0x8139	Realtek 8139
<odie5533> erm... 3 line paste
<odie5533> I am using the RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+
<odie5533> oh I get the rtl8139:rtl8139?
<Yagisan> odie5533: yep
<odie5533> ah, confusing with the same name and all =P
<Yagisan> odie5533: any of the rtl8139 will work
<odie5533> What is legacy floppy?
<Yagisan> odie5533: old pc's have to think a boot cd is a boot floppy to start
<odie5533> Make sure PXELOADER_KEEP_ALL is ticked, and it is a good idea to also tick POWERSAVE, ALLMULTI, MULTICAST_LEVEL1, MULTICAST_LEVEL2, and DOWNLOAD_PROTO_TFTM
<odie5533> There are a lot of steps to get the floppy disk ;)
<Yagisan> odie5533: future compatibility, and if it can't boot for whatever reason, try not to run up the electric bill :)
<Yagisan> PXELOADER_KEEP_ALL is the essential one
<odie5533> There are lots of options in the customize
<odie5533> I don't see any non-computer savvy person able to go thru all this to install a client server setup in their classroom
<odie5533> My mother is probably the most computer literate in her whole school, and theres no chance she could ever setup a client server setup in her lifetime
<Yagisan> odie5533: that's why I wrote the howto (and part of the reason rom-o-matic isn't on the cd)
<odie5533> the not having rom o matic on the cd makes it harder
<odie5533> you'd have to find the howto
<odie5533> then find rom o matic
<Yagisan> odie5533: the hard part is figuring out what network card you have
<Yagisan> odie5533: with newer machines the use PXE it doesn't matter
<odie5533> then open up a command line, do a live cd on each pc to find the right nic, then go through the list, theres no search for the family name so you'd have to know enough about a browser to hit ctrl f (most people don't). then go through the customize. The ctrl f thing comes into play again. Then finally go back into a command line and make the floppy. Possibly then configure a bios to boot from the floppy or the cd.
<Yagisan> odie5533: it works right out of the box
<Yagisan> odie5533: livecds don't always boot on low memory/very old systems
<odie5533> I don't see any non-computer-savvy person being able to setup edubuntu unless there was some better doc's on the install/setup process
<Yagisan> odie5533: with some more recent hardware, it is literally install server and turn on client
<Yagisan> but it is mostly intel network cards that have PXE
<odie5533> Install server is harder than it sounds too
<odie5533> For instance: Asked what a bios was my mom would answer it probably has something to do with a pc. Theres no chance she'd know how to get to it, let alone correctly configure it.
<Yagisan> server doesn't care about the bios
<odie5533> It does to install the server
<Velmont> I didnt have to configure anything on the client... :)
<odie5533> and you can't well have a server without installing one
<odie5533> Velmont: but you still had to either go into the bios to boot from the edubuntu cd or at least know it was able to boot from the cd to install the server in the first place
<Yagisan> odie5533: you make a good argument for reading the manual that comes with the pc
<Velmont> I just put the CD in the server and started it :)
<odie5533> Yagisan: when using 8 year old computers that the manual has well gone and perished from it is quite hard to find the manual
<Yagisan> odie5533: newer (1999 onwards) generally boot from the cd without any configuration
* Yagisan still has the manuals for his 1997 pcs
<Velmont> Anyway, a server is to be set up by someone who knows just a bit of computers :) Once it is it up, it works for anyone.
<odie5533> Too many manuals to read is the point
<odie5533> I doubt there are any cases of a non computer-savvy person having an installation of edubuntu
<Yagisan> odie5533: Would you say the same thing about installing a child safety seat in a car ?
<odie5533> There a large difference between a legally required installation and a computer installation
<Yagisan> odie5533: not really, if you don't read the manual, it's not going to work right
<Yagisan> odie5533: that said, if the manual is wrong, tell us so we can fix it
<odie5533> A good example: A family that I am friends with recently bought a PC from Dell. It comes with easy picture perfect manuals on how to set it up and a 24/7 tech support on how to set it up. They asked me to hook it up. You know why? Becasue they still aren't computer savvy enough to set it up even with a guy walking them through it and color coded cords and full color pictured instruction manuals
<Yagisan> odie5533: what can I say ? I know people like that, and I know people that had no trouble following the instructions
<Yagisan> odie5533: It eventually comes down to the persons confidence in themselves
<odie5533> At the school my mom works at, they are getting roughly 10 new pc's for the whole school. There are two tech guys for the whole district who come around once every 6 months to fix things (and they are both idiots). My mom was able to set hers up reading the instruction manual. She also set up the principle's for him and the secrataries. The rest of the pcs are still in their boxes because no one knows how to set them up. New, ex
<odie5533> pensive pcs (p4's with flatscreens and wireless mice and keyboard, photo printers etc). My mom could set up a pc (plug it in with the color coded cords and such) but I don't see her being able to ever install kubuntu or configure a bios correctly.
<odie5533> *edubuntu
<Yagisan> odie5533: p4s won't need to have the bios configured, in fact most pcs from 1999 on don't need it configured
<odie5533> My mom still couldn't download a cd and burn it anyways, so it won't help that the bios is already idiot proofed
<odie5533> Best example: when trying to download firefox my mom accidently downloaded thunderbird and asked my why she couldn't browse the internet with it
<Velmont> Well. Why SHOULD she install Edubuntu?
<odie5533> SHE won't. I might
<Velmont> I don't see the problem that you actually need to know a bit in order to set it up. 
<Velmont> Don't need to know much though, as it is very easy.
<odie5533> You don't need know a bit. You need to know a LOT
<odie5533> easy for someone who knows how
<Yagisan> odie5533: You had to learn Windows once,
<odie5533> nah, learned dos first
<odie5533> windows came easy to me ;)
<Velmont> Linux came easy to me.
<Yagisan> odie5533: doesn't matter, now you are learning something new
<odie5533> I also had 24/7 tech support from my dad
<Yagisan> odie5533: remember when you first installed windows
<jeffbuntu> Hi
<odie5533> (dad installed it for me, im a bad example really)
<Yagisan> odie5533: did the cd boot ? Did you need to make floppys
<odie5533> again the bad example thing
<Yagisan> odie5533: ah, well, the point is, the first time you do it, it isn't so easy
<odie5533> It is if someone is sittting there helping you do it.
<Yagisan> odie5533: after doing it 2-3 times, it isn't such a deal anymore
<odie5533> And thats what would be needed as it stands to get Edubuntu installed on a pc as I see it
<Yagisan> odie5533: have you installed ubuntu/kubuntu ?
<odie5533> im talking to you in xchat from my Ubuntu install
<Yagisan> odie5533: have any trouble installing it ?
<odie5533> loads
<odie5533> I gave up a few times too
<odie5533> urg brb
<odie5533> back
<odie5533> ive been on and off windows for the past week about
<odie5533> trying to decide which is better
<Yagisan> odie5533: what were issues you had on install ?
<odie5533> First bad media
<odie5533> then bad cd burning speed
<odie5533> Then I couldnt get fakeroot to work when installing sun java, turns out i dled the x86 not the amd64 java
<odie5533> Then I found out theres no good flash player for amd64
<odie5533> then found out w32 codecs didn't work
<odie5533> then got on x86 install
<Yagisan> odie5533: so you discovered that non-ubuntu supplied third party software doesn't work on amd64
<odie5533> lots of things worked, then, I was in #ubuntu yesterday talking to bob2 after he told me my ubuntu put my filesystem in read only mode because it was about to explode...
<odie5533> third party software! thats it! the basic requirements (for me) of any OS, third party software
<odie5533> if all software was first party, why, microsoft would be even richer! ;)
<Yagisan> odie5533: you are too used to windows way of thinking
<Velmont> Tss. I don't need third party software...
<odie5533> yes windows way of thinking: things working...
<odie5533> Windows: It just works
<Yagisan> odie5533: no, that's things not working
<Velmont> Hmm. Ahwell, I use aMSN CVS. But aMSN 0.94 is included from Ubuntu, so.
<odie5533> Meh I hear about loads of crap for Windows, but truely it works great. its the #1 os in the world, how bad could it be?
<Velmont> Hahaha. I work with Windows here at school, -- you can't use just works as a pro with windows! That's much more related to Ubuntu Linux :)
<Yagisan> odie5533: Have you truly tried to use Windows in a corporate environment ?
<odie5533> Ubuntu is based on compiling loads of THIRD PAR\
<odie5533> PARTY software into an OS
<odie5533> Yagisan, I've never been in a corporate environment my whole life (all 15 years of it)
<odie5533> so I honestly can say, no
<Velmont> Ubuntu works better out of the box than Windows... -- Why Windows works "better" is just because you know Windows and have loads of exprience...
<Velmont> odie5533: Well, it sucks.
<Yagisan> Velmont: that's too polite
<odie5533> Windows comes packaged with PC's It LITERALLY works right out of the box
<odie5533> I mean literally, you open the box and it works
<Yagisan> odie5533: Utill you upgrade and find that your modem and sound card now don't work as there are no drivers for Windows foo
<Velmont> odie5533: Not with my pc... Not with the pcs we install here...
<Yagisan> odie5533: I used to be the guy that put Windows on those pc's before we put them in the box
<Velmont> odie5533: And anyway, its incredible easy to do the same with Ubuntu... Just have to buy from a supplier that does it.
<odie5533> And you can even hire people like me to come and install your palm software because you're too stupid to pop in the cd and click install next next finish yourself, so you never need to know anything about a pc to use it on windows
<jeffbuntu> can'i interrupt this troll ?
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: what's up
<odie5533> I feel like that was aimed at me...
<jeffbuntu> i want write in the wiki page, but i don't know how
<odie5533> jeffbuntu, is that troll comment aimed at me?
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: mhz is the wiki guru
<odie5533> Yagisan, jeffbuntu, Velmont, if you guys dont want me here just say the word and I'll never come here again.
<jeffbuntu> the troll is the eternal "comparaison" between windows and linux
<odie5533> I don't personally see it as a troll, more of an endless discussion
<jeffbuntu> if you want
<odie5533> I don't want it one way or the other personally, I don't really have much of an opinion on it
<Yagisan> odie5533: As long as we are all clear that Ubuntu IS NOT Windows, its a very different system
<Yagisan> odie5533: I think you should try installing edubuntu
<Yagisan> odie5533: If you have any issues, we are here to help
<odie5533> I'm not gonna bother if the pc's won't run it.
<odie5533> You can't help me with a subpar minimum spec requirement...
<Yagisan> odie5533: you won't know if you don't try
<odie5533> Can't try for... hmm roughly 12 hours
<Yagisan> odie5533: please don't piss on my help
<odie5533> Yagisan: not at all
<odie5533> you've been the main help here at this hour and I thankyou for that
<odie5533> I am going to attempt to setup either a bunch of workstations or a client server with the p3's and the p2's
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: what page do you want to edit
<odie5533> I think I'm going to get a few hours of sleep before the morning. Good night
<jeffbuntu> about boot without pxe card
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: my page ?
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: what do you want added ?
<jeffbuntu> actually http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientWithoutPxe doesn't exist
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: it's missing an s Between Client and Without
<jeffbuntu> i copy the link, then the link it bad
<Yagisan> where is the bad link ?
<jeffbuntu> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: thanks jeff, fixed the link
<Yagisan> bye all, be back later
<jeffbuntu> i want add howto boot with the HD (not with a floppy)
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: I discussed that with ogra (I use it too), he said not to add it until people want it
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: as it is a little bit involved
<jeffbuntu> ogra they to me to do it
<jeffbuntu> said
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: he did ?
<jeffbuntu> there is 2 days ago
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: have you got it written up ?
<jeffbuntu> i don't understand well ?
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: do you have a draft you can send me ? I'll add it
<jeffbuntu> yes i can do this
<jeffbuntu> what's email ?
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: you can dcc it, if not then jamie_jones_au@yahoo.com.au
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: can you tell me if this page loads http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/doomsday.html
<jeffbuntu> Yagisan : it's seem that it's not good
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: bad link ?
<jeffbuntu> the site eyagi.bpa.nu reply
<jeffbuntu> no reply of ~jamie
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: could you please try again. I just adjusted the firewall
<jeffbuntu> good
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: thank you
<jeffbuntu> Yagisan : it's you  Jamie ?
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: Yes
<jeffbuntu> ok, i've to write because for the moment i've only my papers note, and i mailto you
<jeffbuntu> bye, all
<Yagisan> jeffbuntu: thanks
<Yagisan> be back a bit later
<Tode> h ithere
<Tode> anyone knows where i can find information about the "popularity" of Linux in schools?
<Tode> for example x% of schools in England use Linux, etc
<wsl_> if it helps, I am intending to install edububtu on 8 classroom machines (in the UK)
<wsl_> otherwise the answer (I suspect) is minimal%
<Tode> thanks wsl_
<Tode> and good luck with your installation...! :o)
<wsl_> thanks, hopefully I wont need it :)
<Tode> what do yo umean??
<Velmont> Hihi, it's nice and easy Tode ;)
<Velmont> Just works (tm) (at least here ;);))
<Tode> hi Velmont! what's up?
<Tode> :o)
<Velmont> Tode: Lo`. I'm using Archie on a stupid 300PL IBM-machine that won't work. I can't ghost Win98 onto it... Just have to check the HD really is working ;] 
<Velmont> Archie is an Arch live cd.
<Velmont> ArchLinux*
<Tode>  idon't know the Archie stuff
<Tode> it seems to be a pain in the neck...
<Velmont> Nope. It is good :]  I use Arch Linux at home, and needed a good live cd. SystemRescueCD didn't work...
<Velmont> Huuummm. The disk is only 1 GB... Better find a new one, although it's supposed to be 6gb.
<Tode> 1 Gb?? it's not enough...
<Tode> so u think it's a good stuff, ArchLinux?
<Tode> is it a distribution?
<spacey> i'm deploying edubuntu in a few dutch schools
<Velmont> Tode: It is, yes. :) 
<Tode> spacey -->do you know if Linux is popular in dutch schools?
<Tode> Velmont --> wow I've just red some stuff about Arch Linux... it is for hardcore users!! ;o)
<spacey> Tode, there are a lot of initiatives
<spacey> also from the government
<spacey> but i think atm it is just at the beginning, but the developments are really exciting, and i think it will speed up in the coming years
<Tode> :o)
<Tode> yeah it's really exciting!
<Velmont> Hihi. It's so nice to be so early, - started with GNU/Linux with SuSE 5 :) Things have really changed from that time. :] 
<Tode> wow! I understand why you like Arch Linux.. ;o)
<jsgotangco> hello
<Velmont> I use Ubuntu on my laptop though :]  Really like it, - but I prefer Arch on my main machine, the extreme KISS-philosophy just makes everything so clean and stable.
<Tode> KISS-what?
<Velmont> Keep It Simple Stupid :)
<Velmont> No automatic GUI-wizards and "smart" systems etc.
<Velmont> You do the configuration yourself in flatfiles. pacman, the packagemanager is just a breeze. :)
<Velmont> I prefer it any day over apt-get and dpkg.
<Tode> wow... impressive
<Tode> KISS <-- ;o)
<jsgotangco> arch is really nice i have it in one laptop too (ibm r50e)
<zakame> hi all! :D
<Yagisan> G'day all
<Tode> jsgotangco --> arch is for advanced users, isn't it?
<jsgotangco> not really
<jsgotangco> let's say its a gentler slackware :)
<Tode> ;o)
<Tode> oki doki
<Yagisan> anyone here dual boot with windows ?
<pirast> yes.. I have dual boot ;-) But with Ubuntu :-)
<zakame> Yagisan: here, why?
<Yagisan> panyone who does, could you paste a dmesg | hrep hd
<Yagisan> s/panyone/anyone
<Yagisan> I need it for a howto
<Yagisan> and I don't have a windows box
<Yagisan> s/hrep/grep
<Yagisan> brb
<pirast> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3653
<pirast> Note that I enabled DMA for my DVD device !
<Yagisan> pirast: thanks
<Yagisan> pirast: ubuntu doesn't detect fat or ntfs partitions ?
<pirast> no...
<pirast> i can mount them via "Disks"
<pirast> But Ubuntu didn't autodetect my fat an ntfs partitions :-/
<pirast> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3654
<pirast> fdisk output
<Yagisan> pirast: ok - just wanted to make sure - I'm identifying the partitions to delete so edubuntu clients can boot from hard disk
<Yagisan> pirast: thanks - I was just about to ask for that too
<pirast> okay :-)
<pirast> btw.
<pirast> http://www.ubuntu.com/newsitems/release510
<pirast> it says
<pirast> Automatically makes existing hard drive partitions available      to the desktop
<pirast> Maybe I should enter a bug.. Because I made a fresh Ubuntu 5.10 install..
<Yagisan> pirast: hmm, but it shows up under disks
<jjtechno> The "breezy" version, even when I boot from 'workstation' is just too big for an old 2.0gigs machine, any suggestions that would let me give this machine to a kindergarten class? Thanks
<pirast> Yagisan: Yes.. But in "Disks" I have to mount it.. I just asked in #ubuntu-bugs.. There someone said that this is normal and Ubuntu Breezy does not mount fat32 and ntfs partitions. But the LiveCD does noticed someone there.
<pirast> But the LiveCD does someone noticed there.
<pirast> sorry ;-)
<jeffubuntu> Yagisan: had you some time to watch my draft 
<jjtechno> oops sorry I shouldn't have burst right in, I will just look for a while in the future
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: editing it now on the wiki
<Yagisan> pirast: thanks
<Yagisan> jjtechno: sorry - I'm a bit busy atm, I or someone else will get to you in a moment
<jjtechno> thanks much
<jeffubuntu> jjtechno: can i help you ?
<jjtechno> thanks , I hope so
<jjtechno> I have a older stand alone machine2 gig total space
<jeffubuntu> i see the post and i think 2 GHZ :)
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
<Yagisan> jjtechno: ah - ok. Did you want to use it as a server ?
<jjtechno> no not as a server but as a workstation, I will check the wiki futher, though
<Yagisan> jjtechno: the good news is clients don't need a hard disk
<Yagisan> jjtechno: that disk could probably be taken out and installed into the edubuntu server machine
<jjtechno> the only machine in the class, the teacher was very excited about EDubuntu, so I am trying to make it happen for the class. No more resources for computers this year, next maybe for network thin clients
<Yagisan> jjtechno: oh you meant "worksation" install
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: comments ?
<jjtechno> I was trying to do the minimum install without getting the warning about not enough space
<Yagisan> jjtechno: 2GB is a bit tight, is it possible to get a bigger/second disk ?
<Yagisan> jjtechno: based on the age of the machine, I don't recommend not creating a swap partition to get more disk space
<jjtechno> sorry, I am trying but the bones have been picked over by the rest of the school.
<jjtechno> can you reccomend a manual partition that might work?
<Yagisan> anyone have any ideas for a low-fat edubuntu that can install in less then 2GB drive ?
<amarock> hi all:)
<jeffubuntu> Yasigan: i look the wiki, it's look great ;)
<Yagisan> jjtechno: The issue is that all the educational apps are taking up a lot of that 2GB space
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: thanks :)
<Yagisan> jjtechno: we could remove them, but that defeats the point :(
<Yagisan> G'day amarock
<amarock> hey are there edubuntu developers here too! 
<amarock> :)
<Yagisan> amarock: developers are on their way to the developer convention
<jeffubuntu> jjtechno: may be an "server" install + manual apt-get install an small X programs
<jjtechno> she wants the edu apps. I don't think picking and chooseing would serve her any better
<jjtechno> haen't thought of that jeffubuntu
<jjtechno> will the fluxbox gui run the Gcomfris apps for kindergardeners
<jjtechno> 5 and 6 yearolds
<jeffubuntu> it's seem to be possible with 2 Go
<Yagisan> jjtechno: should, most likely grab the needed gnome support libraries. icewm is also nice
<jjtechno> I will try it, thanks for the help icewm or excm4?
<jjtechno> istead of fluxbox
<Yagisan> jjtechno: OOo is also space hog
<jeffubuntu> or Xfce
<jjtechno>  will try it and let you know
<Yagisan> jjtechno. thanks - if it goes well, add it to the wiki
<jjtechno> ok 
<jeffubuntu> all: what is for you the best tool to resize an partition ?
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: try gparted, myself I backup the data, then delete and recreate the partition
<jeffubuntu> i search a small tool to use on the old client (for then end of boot without pxe)
<jeffubuntu> if the hd is full
<jeffubuntu> i remember "fips" but it's may be "risky"
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: if the old pc runs dos, we can get it to boot edubuntu from dos
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: should also work with Win95 and Win98
<jeffubuntu> with loadlin
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: but not WinMe, or the WinNT/2K/XP/2K3 systems
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: rom-o-matic also makes dos .com files
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: just put it in autoexec.bat
<jeffubuntu> does it do the "coffee" ? ;)
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: It probably will soon
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: I have done the bios mod method a few times - that is sweet when it works, and expensive when it doesn't
<jeffubuntu> bios mod ? include rom boot into bios ?
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: exactly
<Yagisan> hey, its 1am
<Yagisan> happy birthday to me :) 
<jeffubuntu> happy birthday to you, big applause
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: thank you
<jeffubuntu> it's very late in your place, only 5 pm here in france
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: I'm in Sydney, Australia
<jeffubuntu> Yagisan: have you find an model to mod your bios, or all with your brain ?
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: I spent most of my time working it out by myself
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: I've tried it with several machines, ami and award bioses
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: award was easier, but finding tools was hard
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: and I permanently broke 1 motherboard doing it
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: basic gist is download a copy of your bios from your pc
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: insert etherboot image for the exact nic you have
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: reflash bios
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: hope your pc starts again
<jeffubuntu> of course
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: prepare to ebay broken bits
<Yagisan> :)
<jeffubuntu> you add an entry in the menu ?
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: with a bios mod, it will boot over the network if it can't boot from floppy, cd, or hard disk first
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: no menu entry
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: sometimes you need to delete parts of the bios to make it fit
<jeffubuntu> very "impressive"
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: so I thought until I broke a machine
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: it works better with newer machines
<jeffubuntu> but newer have pxe;)
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: such as gigabyte motherboards with dual bios
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: not all :(
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: but it was a fun experiment
<jeffubuntu> i think i test that after i learn a lot on the theme
<jeffubuntu> thanks for the idea, and c you, good night
<Yagisan> jeffubuntu: good night. before testing that idea, make sure you can afford to lose the pc
<jeffubuntu> Yes, i've note this small 'detail'
<jeffubuntu> or border effect
<jeffubuntu> bye
<mhz> hi there
<jindro> hi, first time here
* mhz is happy to announce that next week, he'll be demoing edubuntu to a students about to graduate as Math Teachers.
<mhz> jindro: welcome then
<jindro> is edubuntu for children or students?
<mhz> edubuntu is a distro oriented to satisfy schools needs
<mhz> basically, it is a set of IT tools and applications for Teachers to help and motivate students learning
<highvoltage> jindro: i would say the first release are suitable for young students and children alike, but it is meant for educational institutions
<mhz> you can use it for kindergarden or secondary schools
<highvoltage> future versions will be more apt for high school, and eventually, even university.
<mhz> highvoltage: indeed
<highvoltage> mhz: cool! (about the demo)
<mhz> thx
<jindro> looks like a great idea, I ll look at it tommororow, after azareus does the job
<mhz> highvoltage: though i am very nervous 'cos I know zero about math teaching
<mhz> highvoltage: though i am very nervous 'cos I know zero about math teaching and i am very ignorant on how to use math tools properly
<highvoltage> i don't know much about teaching or maths :(
<jindro> we need smth  easy and colourfull for the kids. I know the Ubuntu community and it works perfectly
<weasl7> make sure you prepare and practise well before going in
* mhz is also presenting Edubuntu in the Science and Math Week of the Universidad de Santiago, Chile, tomorrow at 12 local time
<jindro> math is the best game in science, it could be easy game for children
<mhz> weasl7: that's my point, so today at 16, an engeneer friend of mine will help me prepare the demo.
<jindro> with a proper tooleven more interesting
<mhz> jindro: then you'll love edubuntu selection
<weasl7> good, reckon on spending 2-3 times as long preparing as you will take to deliver the 'class'/demo
<jindro> I am looking forward, bye all
<mhz> weasl7: highvoltage: the thing is that for tomorrow, I'll need to show diff apps. (chemestry, Language, Math, Astronomy)
<weasl7> not much sleep then ... ;)
<mhz> lol
<mhz> I look forward to wiki the presentations ASAP (once i finish them, thou) so communtiy can quickly improve them and so we all get better demos
<mhz> wiki = wikiing
* mhz would love to have some t-shirts and already printed CD :(
<mhz> highvoltage: did you read my comments yesterday about net traffic being THE bottleneck?
<highvoltage> not yet...
<highvoltage> today is the first day in more than a month that i have internet at home
<highvoltage> so i have a bit of catching up to do.
<highvoltage> but on a thin client network, the network is generally *the* bottleneck.
<highvoltage> we have two schools where we added another gigabit ethernet adapter, and bridged the two adaptors, and performance were much better since then.
<mhz> highvoltage: any chance you could provide a more detailed description of your edubuntu testings/current use? (net layout, average clients hw, server hw summary, application performances, etc)?
* mhz knows it is a whole bunch of info, but it will be very useful, esp. as Tecnocimiento only has 2 clients and a a couple of lousy servers (very old and minimal hw)
<mhz> .o( still not a real case scenario)
<jsgotangco> try the original cookbook
<jsgotangco> its more tuxlabs oriented
<highvoltage> mhz: in tuxlabs, we use ubuntu + ltsp.org
<mhz> jsgotangco: hmm, i guess the original cookbook is on the wiki page?
<highvoltage> mhz: we'll convert all the tuxlabs to edubuntu toward the end of next year
<mhz> ohhh
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: whoa will the tuxlabs project get replaced?
<highvoltage> nope.
<highvoltage> replaced with what? :)
<mhz> highvoltage: in terms of ltsp basis, how diff if tuxlabs ltsp from edubuntu ltsp (%?)
<highvoltage> not sure i'm understanding your question.
<mhz> highvoltage: me?
<mhz> sorry, mine?
<highvoltage> mhz: tuxlabs currently uses ltsp.org, which is also used in k12ltsp. it's older, and lots of work to maintain. it's a bit more robust though, imo, but it is less secure.
<highvoltage> mhz: no, jsgotangco 
<mhz> oh, ok.
<mhz> oh, ok.
<highvoltage> mhz: ubuntu's ltsp is much better, it's ltsp environment is created like a real ubuntu environment, using apt.
<mhz> indeed
<highvoltage> mhz: ubuntu's ltsp will ultimately be better than the ltsp.org ltsp, just because of it's design.
<highvoltage> although, more things currently work in ltsp.org, such as sound.
<highvoltage> and it has some limited local device support, etc.
<mhz> highvoltage: and so far, how have you dealt with bottleneck? vmoral (one of the Tecnocimiento gang guys) is very concerned with potential school performance when 10 clients run ooo in parallel :D
<weasl7> sorry to interrupt: what's the minimum memory required to run edu? tia
<highvoltage> mhz: when you run ooo in parrallel, network traffic isn't normally such a problem.
<highvoltage> what you run out of then, is disk bandwidth.
<highvoltage> because your hard disk is seeking like mad opening OOo for all your users.
<mhz> highvoltage: any chance you could stay here for 5 mins so vmoral talks to you. He's the tech guy here while me , more the teaching guy :)
<highvoltage> good solution for that, run over multiple hard disks.
<highvoltage> yes, sure. my internet at home is fine again, so i'll be here 24 hours a day again, except for the 15 minutes it takes to get to work, and again to get back to home.
<vmoral> highvoltage: Hello there...
<highvoltage> hi vmoral 
<mhz> vmoral: let me paste the conversation about the bottleneck so far
<mhz>  mhz: when you run ooo in parrallel, network traffic isn't normally such a problem.
<mhz> highvoltage what you run out of then, is disk bandwidth.
<mhz> highvoltage because your hard disk is seeking like mad opening OOo for all your users.
<mhz> mhz highvoltage: any chance you could stay here for 5 mins so vmoral talks to you. He's the tech guy here while me , more the teaching guy :)
<mhz> highvoltage good solution for that, run over multiple hard disks.
<vmoral> highvoltage: I was talking with mhz and he told me that you are working with ltsp & ubuntu...
<vmoral> highvoltage: how many stations running in parallel?
<highvoltage> yes, if you add another disk, and stripe them, you double the disk bandwidth.
<highvoltage> vmoral: i haven't worked on either ubuntu or ltsp yet, although i've been using both for quite a while
<highvoltage> we run 20 stations in parrallel in most of our labs.
<highvoltage> 4 of them run 40
<highvoltage> and we have 1 lab running 80 workstations.
<highvoltage> the 80 workstation lab has 2 servers, with 4 hard disks, and 8GB RAM in total.
<mhz> wow! and what is the average server hw on those labs?
<vmoral> highvoltage: ufff.. but, let me see. If i get it right, ltsp is based on X11 forwarding, isn't ti?
<highvoltage> 2x 2.8ghz xeon cpu's
<highvoltage> vmoral: ltsp.org uses xdmcp, ubuntu ltsp uses ssh.
<mhz> highvoltage: hehe, that hw is far from Chilean reality on schools :D
<highvoltage> so ubuntu's ltsp is better by design.
<vmoral> right, but it's based on projection.. let's say X11 remote rendering.
<highvoltage> mhz: it would've been in .za too, if it weren't for funding from sabdfl ;)
<highvoltage> vmoral: yep
<mhz> .oO(sabdfl rocks!)
<highvoltage> yep.
<vmoral> so, when the users start any sw with, let's say, animations - flash - etc... do you have a bottleneck in the network?
<highvoltage> flash can be quite intensive.
<mhz> indeed, and many users still prefer it over html :(
<highvoltage> i looked at a 27 seat lab running flash recently, and it got slow.
<highvoltage> in that case, it would be a good idea to add a second gigabit ethernet adaptor to the server, and bridge the two devices, doubling your network bandwidth.
<vmoral> yep... that's it. what are your network specifications?
<vmoral> ok
<highvoltage> in a normal 20 seat lab, one gigabit adaptor on server and switch. clients use normal 100mbit cards.
<vmoral> so the server has a giga card and cascaded switches?
<vmoral> cool
<highvoltage> in a 20 seat lab, only one switch.
<vmoral> any troubles there
<highvoltage> we use 24+2 switches, 24 100mbps, and 2 gb ports.
<highvoltage> nope, with 20 computers, 1 switch is generally fine.
<vmoral> and a server with the GB card...
<mhz> yeah, but dont forget you still have a pretty nice server
<highvoltage> although, if you have a spare $20 or so, i think it's worth while adding another gb card to the server.
<highvoltage> with a thin client network, you'll always need a nice server.
<mhz> lol
<vmoral> mhz: there's no problem about the cpu load, is network bandwidth... and the disks (sure)
<vmoral> have you ever measured the load of OO instances? how much ram / cpu it uses?
<highvoltage> 4 things to keep an eye on with a ltsp network is: *RAM *Bandwidth *CPU *Disks
<vmoral> sure
<highvoltage> if you can keep those on high levels, then things work nicely.
<vmoral> i guess that a sata array will work fine.
<mhz> highvoltage: so, in your on-site experience, you think we could target  low-income schools with edubuntu as a solution? 
<highvoltage> i've seen servers go up to a load average of 7 to 8 while opening lots of OOo instances.
<highvoltage> mhz: yes.
<vmoral> your servers?
<vmoral> let's say the dual ones?
<highvoltage> typical server, Intel Xeon 3ghz, 2GB RAM, 2x120GB disks, gigabit ethernet.
<vmoral> SATA, i guess...
<highvoltage> but adding another Xeon CPU, another 2GB RAM, and another network card is ideal.
<highvoltage> yes, SATA.
<vmoral> typical for... let's say... 30 stations, OO users, firefox navigators?
<highvoltage> don't go out of your way for SATA though, not a world of difference between SATA and PATA disks, really.
<mhz> weasl7: did you get the "requirements" ? :D
<vmoral> mhhh.. i don't think so... sata has changed my (administrator) life :)
<highvoltage> if you do all of them at the same time, your ram requirements go up a lot.
<vmoral> sure
<highvoltage> take 4GB RAM / 30 users, that's 133MB ram per user
<highvoltage> so you could compare that to a computer with 133 MB ram
<highvoltage> some people would say sure, but when that runs out you can use swap.
<highvoltage> but you don't want your server to go into swap, it makes your disk bandwidth worse.
<mhz> good point
<vmoral> no swap.... fact : a simple instance of OO 1.1.4 , uses 45Mb
<highvoltage> just a moment...
<vmoral> OOwriter.
<highvoltage> http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2005/09/msg00067.html
<highvoltage> that was done in a 27 seat lab.
<vmoral> mhz: so you can see.. there are big requirements of network. a server with a gigabit interface, a switch with gb too... a server with 2Gb ram and several sata disks.. i don't really know if it'll be affordable to the local schools...
<mhz> hmm, yes I am starting to be scare :)
<highvoltage> vmoral, mhz: so what's the alternative?
<mhz> I fear we'll get to become VERY creative on finding affordable solutions
<highvoltage> you need a powerful server, but you can use old, donated workstations.
<vmoral> highvoltage: nice link... but it look a little optimistic about the OO mem usage...
<vmoral> don't worry... we will :)
<mhz> highvoltage: indeed. Unfortunately, Chile is still a society where donations is not something you see on regular basis.
<mhz> highvoltage: in fact, one of Tecnocimiento projects is called RecicLab and it is aimed to start donation program from big companies
<highvoltage> that's real cool. i hope it takes off.
<mhz> but we're still on the "please, let's try to launch" :)
<vmoral> we'll have to ask them not only for recycled worstations but a nice server too ;)
<mhz> thx
<mhz> lol
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> highvoltage: i believe, Oliver metnioned something about clustering. Do you any thing about that?
<vmoral> well.. in any case the requirements can change between installations. A little school running gcompris, keduca and little weight apps won't need a super server nor a super net..
<highvoltage> a little, i haven't used it though.
<mhz> good point
<vmoral> clustering is nice.. but quite hard to mantain.
<highvoltage> i don't think many people have, i don't think it's very viable.
<highvoltage> clustering is also a bit useless with very old worskations
<vmoral> for a classroom is far too complex.
<mhz> vmoral: maybe for now, we should also encourage teachers to run simple and low requirements apps.
<mhz> at least while we get better machines
<vmoral> and wait the recycling of big servers...
<vmoral> (how optimistic i can be..)
<mhz> LOL
<vmoral> mhz: sorry, long time no chat.. what means lol?
<mhz> highvoltage: thx for documenting everything so far, BTW
<highvoltage> vmoral: these days, people use lol way to liberaly
<mhz> vmoral: laughing out loud
<highvoltage> it's supposed to mean "laughing out loud", but few people still do that.
<mhz> highvoltage: not me, I am very happy person
<vmoral> thx
<mhz> .oO(vmoral can tell)
<highvoltage> when i have a real laughing out loud, it's often so violent that people want to call an ambulance. when i say lol, i mean it :)
<mhz> LOL
<vmoral> LOL x 2
<vmoral> (using it in an arithmetic context)
<mhz> hehehe
<vmoral> well people, i've to keep running my programming marathon.
<vmoral> thanks a lot highvoltage
<mhz> vmoral: speaking about math, please be at the office when Rodrigo and I prepare tomorrows presentation at USACH (Semana de Ciencias)
<mhz> we could use some help there
<vmoral> mhz: i'll try..
<mhz> ok.
<mhz> see ya vmoral
<vmoral> highvoltage: thanks a lot for sharing your expirience. we'll keep you informed about any "third worldist" implementation.... be well :)
<mhz> highvoltage: me.. I am gonna take care of my dauhter's lunch now. BBL
<highvoltage> cool, ok :)
<vmoral> see ya people
<mhz_lunch> highvoltage: btw, how about users experience? Do they notice any diff between ltsp or local work?
<highvoltage> bbl, the simpsons is starting now.
<mhz_lunch> :D
* mhz_lunch BBL
<jsgotangco> good night
<highvoltage> goodnight, js.
<mhz> re
<mhz> jose__: estas usando edubuntu?
<Yukaro> good evening
<mhz_lunch> good evening
* mhz_lunch is leaving for the office now :)
<highvoltage> good evening
<Yukaro> have anyone a tipp for me why my clients couldnt log in ( on the ltsp server ) ? i get the loginmask. put in the username and password, then a black screen and after that the loginscreen again :/
<bluefrog-10> ssh pb
<bluefrog-10> hang on
<bluefrog-10> try the following on the server
<bluefrog-10> sudo rm /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
<bluefrog-10> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<Yukaro> ok
<Yukaro> thx
<Yukaro> ill try it. 
<Yukaro> (tomorrow)
<Yukaro> any other ideas ?
<bluefrog-10> it's likely to be this one
<Yukaro> ok. its a known bug ?
<bluefrog-10> yep
<Yukaro> ok, thx very much
<highvoltage> hi bluefrog-10 
<bluefrog-10> hi
<highvoltage> haven't seen you aroung yet. are you an ubuntu developer?
<bluefrog-10> no
<highvoltage> your name looks familiar
<bluefrog-10> am hangin g around since one week when i started to ahve a deeper look in breezy
<bluefrog-10> wrote a few answers on forum as well
* KurtKraut is away (Estou ausente. Responderei seu PVT assim que puder. Tenha prefe)
<mhz_llibre> re
<rexykik> anyone know much about doing thin client booting on ltsp? When I boot a terminal I seem to get to xdm on the terminal, but when I logon my x server just restarts, which makes me believe that it is a local X session rather than booting from the X-server of the ltsp server.
<bluefrog-10> what do u mean by resen?tart? u try to log in and u're back to login scre
<rexykik> right
<bluefrog-10> have u tried the ssh tricks i gave u?
<rexykik> it does what the effect of a ctrl-alt-backspace does (as far as I can tell), and then auto-starts x again
<rexykik> yes, i tried renewing the ssh keys
<bluefrog-10> then u should try to remove standalone and install (from synaptic the normal ltsp
<bluefrog-10> i have no pb with it
<bluefrog-10> or install edubuntu
<rexykik> edubuntu is what is installed
<bluefrog-10> then renewing the ssh should have done the job
<rexykik> 'kay. Sorry about that...just went to doublecheck from my boss and he says its regular ubuntu.
<rexykik> so yeah. i'll install regular.
<bluefrog-10> just remove standalone and get normal from synaptic
<hoaryuser> hello??
<rexykik> hey
<mhz> re
<hoaryuser> any dicussions on, I just joined
<rexykik> just one that probably ended
<hoaryuser> about?
<mhz> highvoltage: ping?
<bluefrog-10> rexykik, still there?
<rexykik> yes
<rexykik> ltsp-server-standalone is installed along with ltsp-server. Will I still be able to do thin-client boots with ltsp-server? is standalone just buggy or something?
<bluefrog-10> paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3673    total setup for ltsp on breezy
<bluefrog-10> couldn't succeed with standalone. no problem with ltsp alone or edubuntu.
<bluefrog-10> remove standalone, it will creates interference i think
<bluefrog-10> edubuntu does a marvelous for clients autodectection but it has no sound (next release will). if u don't need sound install edubuntu. if u do follow my howto. in both cases it's a matter of minutes to get the server running
<rexykik> yup. i'll try this; if i get no work-ability i shall try edubuntu
<rexykik> its a nice guide but i'm having a little trouble following
<rexykik> }}} denotes a...note?
<bluefrog-10> pretty much straight forward though
<bluefrog-10> no those commes from the formatting on ubuntu wiki. just ignore them
#edubuntu 2005-11-01
<mhz> ogra: nice to see ya aroubd
<mhz> aroubd
* ogra waves from montreal
* mhz still wavez from Chile :)
<mhz> ogra: is everything going cool?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> i'm terribly tired 
<mhz> sorry
<ogra> but else everything is fine
<mhz> but maybe i can cheer you up by giving you and Jane good news
<ogra> mhz, about the comment from your friend.... why should X behave different if i wrap the X packages in ssh poackages ? 
<ogra> i dont understand his concern :)
<mhz> nop, we already talked about it with highvoltage 
<mhz> and highvoltage did a great job explainig
<rexykik> hey bluefrog, you around?
<ogra> ah, k
<bluefrog-10> yep
<bluefrog-10> ogra here's the stuff about samba-ldap. http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/3675
<bluefrog-10> fiddled a few hours today to setup a quick server ( mail, dns and so on ) but then discovered that it takes less time to set it up from a normal breezy. the server mode is missing so many things it's a nightmare (especially for CPAN)
<bluefrog-10> rexykik, wazzup?
<ogra> bluefrog-10, thanks stored...
<ogra> sorry, have to save battery ...
<bluefrog-10> :)
<ogra> bye
<xDudex> Hello
<bluefrog-10> hi
<xDudex> quick question, or maybe it's quick
<xDudex> is it easier to set up ltsp with edubuntu versus the standard ubuntu
<xDudex> err ?
<bluefrog-10> edubuntu
<xDudex> ok, thank you
<xDudex> I am downloading it right now
<xDudex> I had been trying for quite some time to get it working with Ubuntu but it only got as far as the login screen....  quite frustrating
<bluefrog-10> once u have installed edubuntu follow the guide on ubuntuwiki. ther's a glitch with ssh as well that can solved with the following...
<bluefrog-10> sudo rm /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
<bluefrog-10> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<bluefrog-10> to do on the server
<bluefrog-10> or if u want to install ltsp on normal breezy follow this http://pastebin.ubuntulinux.nl/3673
<rexykik> bluefrog: any special guide i should follow for edubuntu (installing now), or can i just follow the one you gave me?
<xDudex> excellent
<bluefrog-10> if u install edubuntu follow the edubuntu guide on ubuntuwiki
<rexykik> xDudex, you have the problem where after logging into the terminal on xdm is just restarts X?
<rexykik> it*
<bluefrog-10> and if u have pb on login screen don't forget the ssh trick
<xDudex> rexykik, yes
<rexykik> me too
<rexykik> i've been battling that today
<rexykik> installing it now
<rexykik> (edubuntu)
<xDudex> I have burned and rebuilt it a few times trying to figure out the problem
<bluefrog-10> I had the same pb when i installed the standalone
<xDudex> but that has all been with Ubuntu, not Edubuntu
<rexykik> yeah.
<rexykik> installing as we speak...hopefully it'll work and I can go home.
<rexykik> i'm assuming i'll have to install gdm.
<xDudex> ltsp always lists that it's missing xdmcp
<bluefrog-10> it's not a pb
<bluefrog-10> edubuntu anyway doesn't use gdm nor xdm
<xDudex> it's just the ssh problem, bluefrog?
<bluefrog-10> on edubuntu if u have this pb yes. on normal breezy I don't know. the only thing i know is i had no more pb when i got rid of ltsp stanalone on nrmal breezy
<xDudex> hence, the installation of ltsp-server instead of ltsp-server-standalone in those instructions you linked me to?
<rexykik> is standalone installed by default on ed?
<bluefrog-10> xDudex, yes
<xDudex> ahh, ok, makes sense...  I'm starting a fresh install and going to try out those instructions right now
<bluefrog-10> rexykik, can't remember, all i know is that it is configured well, u just have to tweak the dhcpd;conf
<bluefrog-10> for edubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPServerSetup?highlight=%28ltsp%29
<bluefrog-10> time for me to hit the sac. last thing that saves me lots of time and in case u don't know it.
<bluefrog-10> when u make a clean install, make an image using partimage in systemrescuecd (for example) before u start fiddling with your system. takes 2 to 3 minutes to reinstall the image if u need a fresh system again..
<xDudex> ok
* P3L|C4N0 brb
<odie5533> My mom teaches a 4th grade class with 3 pcs. I was wondering which would be better to use: Edubuntu or Wind95 with educational windows games from the learning company and broarderbund
<Topslakr> I'm trying to get the dhcp server running on my server but it says i need a subnet declaration for eth0...
<Topslakr> i don't know what it's talking about. I have one set i think..
<mhz> hi, good chilean evening you all
<mhz> anyone knows how to add spanish locale to edubuntu applications?
* mhz always uses 100% english but many people has now asked me about spanish
<mhz> :(
* magnon is a bit embarassed not to know
<mhz> magnon: why embarrosed
<mhz> ?
<magnon> because I should know
<mhz> BTW, i know how!
<mhz> d'u wana know?
<mhz> Christofer, why should you?
<mhz> magnon: ?
<magnon> because, I use english all the time, but customers have Norwegian
<magnon> well, apt-get install language-support-es
<magnon> if it's that simple
<mhz> magnon: GNOME: System -> Administration -> Language Selector
<magnon> that works for one user only, wouldn't it
<magnon> I've got no idea, I never change from default :-P
<mhz> will 'automatically' install the packages you need
<magnon> ah, right
<mhz> magnon: that will work for all users who specify lang at GDM time
<magnon> m'kay
<mhz> but sure, APT is actually doing it :)
<mhz> magnon: are you currently using edubuntu? your customers? students?
<magnon> me, no
<magnon> some students, yes
<mhz> ah, what are their impressions so far?
<magnon> good, overall
<magnon> but I've been away
<magnon> so I can't really tell :-P
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> .oO(they all have switched to M$)
<magnon> I'm going to UBZ so I should have had a talk first :p
* mhz couldnt afford to but whishes to
<magnon> I couldn't really afford it either
<mhz> but?
<magnon> but, I'm combining it with some other things
<mhz> oh, educool
<magnon> visiting a friend in NY
<magnon> some others in Ottawa
<mhz> my wife didn't let me, period :D
<magnon> hehe
<magnon> I'm single and all
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> ohhhh, that explains it
<mhz> Maybe next time, meeting will be here in Chile
<magnon> ick
<ajmitch_> aha, so that's the Christoffer :)
<mhz> Chile is cheap for you
<magnon> mhz: on one hand, traveling halfway around the world is fun, but expensive flights
<mhz> hmmm, yes and nop.
<magnon> ajmitch_, yes :)
<ajmitch_> magnon: you get into UBZ on the 30th?
<magnon> I'll come from Ottawa, hungover, on Sunday morning
<ajmitch_> heh
<ajmitch_> so I'll have the room to myself to recover from jetlag on the saturday :)
<mhz> I have talked to many friends and Chile is cheaper than going to Australia or almost same as US from Europe
<magnon> oh, my roomie :D
<ajmitch_> yep
<mhz> we should have a campaign: Those who couldn't afford to get there but have done some good job for edubuntu community should get at least the pleasure of a T-Shirt sent home :D
<magnon> you might get the room on monday night too, if I take off for Halloween :P
* mhz listens to Jean Michelle Jarre/ Equinoxe Part V
<odie5533> Is there an accelerated reader-like program for edubuntu?
<mhz> odie5533: i did not get your question?
* mhz listens to Jean Michelle Jarre/ Zoolook/ Ethnicolor
* mhz desperately goes to bed
<odie5533> Does broaderbund and the learning company software run on Edubuntu?
<odie5533> Like The Zoombinis and Mountain Rescue? maybe?
<odie5533> Anyone here even?
<juliux> odie5533, can bee or not
<odie5533> juliux, do you run edubuntu?
<juliux> odie5533, yes i do
<odie5533> Are you a teacher?
<juliux> odie5533, no i am a student
<odie5533> What grade are you in if you don't mind me asking?
<juliux> odie5533, i run edubuntu on my home computer 
<odie5533> What for?
<odie5533> TuxPaint?
<juliux> i manage the german fair acitivity for ubuntu
<juliux> and at the fairs we have a edubuntu server and thinclients
<odie5533> Ah
<juliux> and we show the visitors edubuntu and ubuntu
<odie5533> What do the thin clients run?
<odie5533> what specs I mean to say
<juliux> just notebooks wicht boots via pxe
<juliux> s/wicht/which
<odie5533> Ah and why do you do this?
<odie5533> you yourself
<juliux> because ubuntu and edubuntu are coll
<juliux> s/coll/cool
<odie5533> what is that s/coll/cool thing? and the s/wicht/which?
<juliux> that is sed syntax
<odie5533> What is sed?
<juliux> man sed ;-)
<juliux> moment i have to find the english words
<odie5533> Is it specific to bash?
<juliux> hm no
<juliux> with sed you can replace words
<odie5533> could it be used in say a C progra,?
<juliux> so coll is the search pattern and it has to replace buy cool
<juliux> s/buy/by
<odie5533> ah I see
<juliux> it is a unix tool
<odie5533> yes
<odie5533> hmm so ubuntu is cool and you show it off at a fair in germany?
<juliux> but not a bash tool you can it also use with other shells
<juliux> yes
<juliux> if will do this
<juliux> wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Messen/2006 there you can see where we will do that
<juliux> sorry is only in german
<odie5533> aww I can't come :(
<odie5533> Hmm so has anyone taken any information from the fair and like... used Edubuntu in a school in Germany there?
<odie5533> Do you hand anything out there?
<juliux> i hope we will have a flyer about ubuntu and edbuntu
<odie5533> Do any school districts there use edubuntu?
<juliux> i don't know
<juliux> because in germany every school can use what they want
<juliux> but i hope we can do a part that they will use edubuntu
<odie5533> Why edubuntu? Why not show off... windows xp?
<odie5533> jk ;)
<odie5533> Do you take pictures at the event?
<juliux> because edubuntu is free, edubuntu is very easy to install, there is only one computer what need to maintain
<juliux> yes i think we will take pictures
<odie5533> When is it?
<juliux> the event?
<odie5533> yes
<juliux> the first one is at the 3 and 4 december this year in essen
<juliux> this is a normal linux day
<juliux> where we have both
<odie5533> oh wow not too soon then
<odie5533> do you speak german?
<juliux> yes of course
<odie5533> o
<juliux> i live in germany
<juliux> s/live/life
<odie5533> Hmm and you use Edubuntu on your home pc?
<odie5533> nope, its live in germany, not life ;)
<odie5533> had it right the first time
<juliux> shit
<odie5533> life is a noun
<juliux> yes i have a desktop pc and a notebook an on the desktop pc is edubutu
<juliux> this is the server for the fairs
<odie5533> Why not plain Ubuntu?
<juliux> because i want to have a terminal server :-)
<odie5533> Hmm what for
<juliux> for the fairs
<odie5533> But the fair isnt till december
<juliux> so that every visitor can try out ubuntu and edubuntu
<odie5533> how many thin clients are there?
<juliux> yes but i want to play with the system
<juliux> i think 5-7
<odie5533> Do you know your way around edubuntu then?
<juliux> sorry what does you mean
<juliux> ?
<odie5533> lol?
<juliux> i want to understand my system
<odie5533> Do you understand your system though
<juliux> sorry my english isn't very good and its very early in the morning
<juliux> i hope so
<odie5533> how good are you in TuxPaint?
<juliux> never used
<odie5533> im probably better at it than you
<juliux> yes
<odie5533> Wanna have a TuxPaint Battle?
<juliux> no thanks
<odie5533> o
<juliux> i have to go to university in a few minutes
<odie5533> lets have the battle when you get back ok?
<juliux> ok
<odie5533> bring it on
<juliux> i will do
<juliux> at first i have to install it on my computer
<juliux> odie5533, what is a tuxpoint battle?
<DarthTode> bonjour everybody !
<juliux> re
<weasl77_> .
<Yagisan> highvoltage: ping
<Yagisan> ogra: ping
<ogra> Yagisan, pong
<Yagisan> ogra: Have you seen mhz around ?, I've got a question re and edit he made
<Yagisan> *re a
<ogra> yesterday, very shortly... i wasnt online most of th time due to travelling
<highvoltage> Yagisan: pong
<highvoltage> ogra: good to see you here again
<ogra> hey highvoltage :)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: how have you been ?
<highvoltage> Yagisan: strange
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> Yagisan: last night i went to bed early, and overslept this morning, and then i felt sleepy all day.
<Yagisan> ogra: I added some stuff to the wiki by myself and jeffubuntu and noticed to authorship notice was removed
<ogra> hmm
<Yagisan> highvoltage: Just got home from celebrating my birthday
<ogra> Yagisan, HEY ! HAPPY BIRTHDAY !
<Yagisan> ogra: It's not even in the source, I understand he wants "community" docs, but I want to clarify with him why
<Yagisan> ogra: thanks :) turned 24 on the 27th
<highvoltage> Yagisan: yes, happy birthday!!
<ogra> :)
<Yagisan> although, over here it finished 2hrs, 40mins ago "offically" I'm still celebrating :)
<Yagisan> my little girl had a late night, and a 5 star dinner
* Yagisan wonders, why as I get older, does it seem I buy my own birthday presents ??
<Yagisan> ogra: you arrived for the conference ?
<ogra> yup
<ogra> just starting to write my talk
<Yagisan> ogra: giving a demo ?
<ogra> hopefully... dunno how my laptop behaves on a projector
<ogra> (widescreen)
<Yagisan> ogra: multiarch :) you'll probally need some etherboot cds too
<ogra> nah, enough PXE alppies around i guess
<ogra> *lappies
<ogra> got a switch and 5 wires with me :)
<ogra> multiarch tsp is already installed ...
<ogra> *ltsp
<Yagisan> ogra: that uploaded to dapper yet ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> during or after the conf
<Yagisan> ogra: ok - haven't built my dapper chroots yet.
<Yagisan> ogra: do you use distcc ?
<ogra> nope... 
<Yagisan> ogra: I think it is broken, I need some independent confirmation though
<Yagisan> ogra: I set up a nice pbuilder + ccache + distcc setup
<ogra> i saw you talking about on -motu
<Yagisan> ogra: but with distcc - all compiles fail
<Yagisan> ogra: yep - and no confirmation yet
<Yagisan> ogra: it really bugs me, I want to know if I fucked it up, and no one uses it
<ogra> Yagisan, see if you can get hands on fabbione, i know he uses it extensively
<Yagisan> ogra: oh ? /me notes that down.
<Yagisan> ogra: Did I tell you about / you see,  the complaints I got in the forums because my private repo was down ?
<ogra> nope ? what do you provide there ? 
<Yagisan> ogra: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/doomsday.html
<Yagisan> ogra: most of it is pending at revu, I need to dfsg the source, and upstream did a new release that I need to test
<Yagisan> ogra: It sure is nice to be popular :)
<ogra> haha
<ogra> :)
* Yagisan notes he should make some updates to that page
<Yagisan> ogra: THAT is the app that I really want to run on the ltsp network
<ogra> doit :)
<Yagisan> ogra: so I can work on it from any of my systems - instead of the server
<Yagisan> ogra: but then it runs like a slideshow !
<Yagisan> ogra: like the screenies ? it's hard to believe that is just Doom 2 with basically models and high-res textures
<\sh> hey ogra...how is the weather in montreal? :)
<ogra> cloudy but dry
<ogra> around 6C
<\sh> sounds fine :) better then here...sunny but windy
<ogra> but windy as hell... makes it feel very odd
<ogra> susus told me we had nearly 30C at home yesterday :)
<\sh> ogra: u r lucky...that u didn't feel guenthers thunderstorm yesterday
<\sh> ogra: yepp
<ogra> (i'm sure she exaggerates)
<\sh> well...something like 25 was it..when I came home
<ogra> woah
<\sh> strange weather for germany in autum
* ogra cant belive that .... goes to www.eifelwetter.de to check
<Yagisan> sounds like the weather down here
<ogra> wow, actually 18
<\sh> ogra: in eifel? well..here was 25 (believing the sparkasse ,-))
<ogra> thats *very* unusual for this time of year
<\sh> *veryvery*
<\sh> but in ISH land we hat thunderstorm guenther 
<ogra> \sh, can you bring a big connector strip (steckerleiste) please ? i forgot mine ...
<\sh> ogra: noted :) 
<ogra> thanks :)
<\sh> ogra: how bug?
<\sh> aeh big?
<ogra> a 5er ?
<ogra> at least 3 ...
<\sh> make 6 and we're ok :)
<\sh> well...I will buy a new one...mine are somewhat occupied
<\sh> or two
<ogra> i'll pay it :)
* ogra goes for a smoke
<\sh> ogra: no...i need new ones as well ;)
<\sh> ogra: hope my salary is on my account tomorrow ;)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: are you 196.7.130.247 ?
* Yagisan hates when he closes the wrong gaim window
<highvoltage> Yagisan: no
<highvoltage> although, that ip address looks very familiar.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I ask, as it is a south african address - and I know you are in that area
<highvoltage> my sites are all hosted overseas, since it's expensive to host locally :)
<Yagisan> highvoltage: looks like a have a visitor to my hoary repo from around there
<highvoltage> ah, it was me :)
<highvoltage> it's my isp's address.
<highvoltage> i'm natted very deep, that's an upstream ip.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: heh - I called it. Breezy repo will be open next week, so I suggest browse now, and check the website every few days
<highvoltage> ok
<Yagisan> highvoltage: breezy will get beta3, + cleaned up resource packs
<highvoltage> i'd like to have some games for ubuntu. since i deleted windows i've missed my old games.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: i386 only I'm afraid (I have no ppc, and it still isn't 64bit clean)
<highvoltage> i don't have 64bit or ppc either, only i386.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I think most users do, that's why I packaged it - it was later determined that it can't go to multiverse
<highvoltage> how so?
<highvoltage> is it non-free software?
<Yagisan> highvoltage: without some removals, because there is some dumb arse activision eula tagged on to a generally free license
<Yagisan> highvoltage: there is a license file - it says you may not distribute this file, later in the doc, it says you may distribute this file
<highvoltage> that sux.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: the motus felt that was unsuitable for multiverse, so I have a 3rd party repo, harrass upstream, and am working on a dfsg version
<Yagisan> highvoltage: which is all legal on my local law, but would not be in say germany
<highvoltage> i think it's good that you're harrassing upstream
<Yagisan> highvoltage: I think the 2.0 rewrite will be ok, but I will have to rip out heretic & hexen support for the 1.9.x releases
<Yagisan> highvoltage: It's one of the few games I like (as you can tell on the website)
<Yagisan> night all
<\sh> re
<ogra> hey cloaker :)
<juliux> ogra, are there pressed edubuntu cds? 
<\sh> ogra: yeah..after some difficulties
<\sh> with my  \ ;)
<ogra> juliux, nope
<juliux> ogra, ok thanks
<ogra> and i doubt we'll make any... mark will only pay for one release... dapper might be the one
<\sh> ogra: please talk to amu...
<juliux> ogra, ok thanks
<\sh> ogra: i want to see some cds on the shop for 1 eur
<ogra> \sh, will do :)
<\sh> ogra: and please tell him, that edubuntu is not a "nieschenprodukt"
<juliux> \sh, +1
<ogra> hehe
<\sh> ogra: or we have to sit someday and buy a HP laser dvd recorder with printing function..
<\sh> ogra: or let it make 5 eur where 4 euros will be donated
<juliux> ogra, a cd design would be nice, so we can burn them and label them
<gand> I'm dist-upgrade, do you know a mirror list to configure sources.list?
<ogra> juliux, there is a CD cover alread
<ogra> y
<juliux> ogra, in the wiki?
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdAndSlip
<ogra> but we didnt work out the text yet
<gand> when my byttery finished my ibook went to sleep... and never wake up :(
<gand> byttery/battery
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, you here?
<\sh> gand: this is more #ubuntu or #ubuntu-laptop :)
<ogra> jelkner, nope... :) i'm in montreal
<jelkner> lol cool!
<jelkner> i'll be joining you next week
<highvoltage> there's an ubuntu-laptop?
<ogra> yup :)
<jelkner> that's what i wanted to talk about
<\sh> highvoltage: yeah
<jelkner> is there anything i need to put on the website before then?
<ogra> do you feel anything is missing ? then add it
<gand> thank, I need only upgrade mirror list, not speaking about laptop, sorry
<jelkner> well, there is a lot missing, we will be doing the spec for dapper next week
<jelkner> i think we can do it in 3 days
<\sh> jelkner: convince JaneW that she is baking another 10 edubuntu cakes before ubuntu love day ;)
<ogra> jelkner, was this spec added to the speclist last week ? 
<jelkner> JaneW: we *really* need the cakes!
<jelkner> i don't know?
* jelkner goes off to search for the spec list...
<ogra> jelkner, if you didnt add it it might not be there and thus might not be scheduled 
<\sh> JaneW: *withgreyblueeyeslookingatyou* please bake some cakes...I heard, that the kitchen in a holliday inn is quite good ,-)
<gand> A n adununtu question, a collegue ask me if edubuntu is for 6/10 or 10/14 or over 14 years old students?
<highvoltage> JaneW: that "*withgreyblueeyeslookingatyou*", does that ever work?
<highvoltage> sorry, meant to ask \sh :)
<jelkner> but JaneW asked me to do it
<ogra> jelkner, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
<\sh> highvoltage: sometimes...
<jelkner> i also see: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/DapperGoals
<\sh> highvoltage: my greyblueeyes are underlined by my blue glasses ,-)
<ogra> jelkner, thats not relevant for the conf schedule
<jelkner> ok
<ogra> it will be totally built aournd the speclist
<jelkner> i see your posting: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-use-management
<jelkner> so i'm not really clear on what to do
<jelkner> a down under we created a single spec for edubuntu
<jelkner> do we want to do that again?
<ogra> that one is merged with the ubuntu spec
<ogra> (the launchpad spec)
<jelkner> or is it far enough along now that we need seperate specs for different things?
<jelkner> how will we proceed with things like:
<jelkner> 1. local devices
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/network-authentication
<ogra> thats adreesed already
<jelkner> sound too?
<jelkner> where?
<ogra> i'm struggling a bit with sound stuff, since i refuse to use esd or nas
<ogra> its on the list
<ogra> i'm the drafter, but sabdfl and mdz want the ltsp guys to lead the BOFs
<jelkner> so what should i be doing?
<jelkner> i see content filtering is there too, very important!
<ogra> dropped... mdz doesnt want me to work on it ... i'll have to talk to him about it
<jelkner> ouch!
<JaneW> hi guys
<jelkner> i'll talk to him too
<\sh> hey JaneW 
<jelkner> edubuntu won't fly without it
<ogra> he thinks setting up squid for transparent proxying by default is to dangerous/intrusive on the package
<JaneW> can't chat now, but if you want stuff scheduled get the spec registered on Launchpad asap
<JaneW> they are going through the list right now and rejecting or approving them for discussion at UBZ
<ogra> jelkner, what we will provide wont be better than a cheapo dsl route with content filter...
<ogra> *router
<jelkner> do cheapo routers do that now?
<ogra> both that i have at home provite a blacklist based filter ...
<ogra> most do that
<\sh> we need some good stuff for ubuntu-server which makes it easy to set up a firewall..(firewall == concept of securing a network)
<ogra> but its still hard to administer
<jelkner> run dan's guardian or something similar?
<ogra> just a blacklist
<jelkner> it is state law in most us schools that you *have* to filter
<\sh> packetfilter, url filter, application filter
<ogra> with pattern matching...
<jelkner> ok, i'll be setting that up for the mt rainier library
<ogra> mdz doesnt want me to cripple the available squid package, so lets see what w can work out ... i think making trasparent proxy a debconf option on package install shouldnt be to hard
<ogra> but as long as he disagrees, i wont gain any ground there
<jelkner> ok, i'll wait until next week to talk to you more about that
<\sh> ogra: squid improved in filtering urls? or filtering active-x crap or java applet crap?
<jelkner> without filtering, the system isn't usable in most places we want to use it
<ogra> \sh, squid+squidguard+a simple balcklist package you can regulary update
<jelkner> so even if it is a technical marvel, it won't get anywhere
<ogra> only a url filter with regex pattern matching
<jelkner> anyway, what do you want me to do?
<ogra> probably + a gui for editing the blacklists
<jelkner> i have my own itches to scratch (edubuntu for CS education), but beyond that, i'm at your disposal
<ogra> jelkner, give us the necessary input from the field :)
<jelkner> certainly
<ogra> we rely on your experience ...
<ogra> add the specs to the list you find missing asap...
<ogra> so JaneW can fight for tem :)
<ogra> *them
<jelkner> where do i look for the current list? (pardon slow response times, i'm in class ;-)
<jelkner> i can think of two things that are probably not there:
<jelkner> 1. python teaching tools
<jelkner> 2. java teaching tools
<jelkner> 1 is particularly important
<jelkner> the current debian wxpython has some serious bugs
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec
<ogra> 2.4 should be fine ...
* jelkner goes off to look...
<crimsun> wxpython 2.4 or 2.6?
<jelkner> 2.6
<ogra> note that we didnt want to talk aboput app selection for edubuntu at UBZ, we'll (hopefully) have a edubuntu summit again dedicated to app selection
<jelkner> there are 186 specs
<jelkner> in no particular order
<ogra> app selection ate too much time at the last summit....
<crimsun> jelkner: reproducible in Breezy's/Dapper's wxpython 2.6?
<jelkner> crimsun: yes, it is a mouse bug
<jelkner> pretty anoying
<jelkner> annoying
<jelkner> the mouse cursor locks up
<crimsun> BTS #?
<jelkner> BTS?
<ogra> jelkner, bugzilla number 
<crimsun> if gcc-4.0 has finished building, we can probably upload a fix
<jelkner> oh, well the problem is that i wasn't sure where the bug was located
<jelkner> i first saw it in gvr
<jelkner> and we reported a gvr bug
<jelkner> then i saw it in spe and drpython
<ogra> jelkner, youre not supposed to fix it, just report it ;)
<jelkner> i understand, i did report it
<jelkner> but on the wrong package
<jelkner> i'm about to start teaching python
<jelkner> i don't know what development environment to use
<jelkner> aside from being a personal issue for me, i think it is actually an important long term issue for ubuntu/edubuntu
<jelkner> if we want to really grow the community in the long run
<jelkner> we need to provide young folks with the tools to begin learning software development
<jelkner> python is almost there...
<crimsun> do you have a bugzilla/malone #?
<\sh> jelkner: if you are brave...use eric as python ide...it's the best I know..but I'm the one who is somehow responsible for the pyQT/pyKDE stuff behind it ;)
<\sh> jelkner: but it's qt/kde stuff :(
<jelkner> \sh: i tend to favor either spe or drpython
<jelkner> because i'm a gnome user, and what i'm really looking for is good pythoncard and pygame integration
<jelkner> spe looks the most promissing
<\sh> jelkner: spe? this is the pywxgtk stuff which doko brought in during breezy...
<\sh> Von: 	Matthias Klose <doko@ubuntu.com>
<\sh> Antwort an: 	ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<\sh> An: 	breezy-changes@lists.ubuntu.com
<\sh> Betreff: 	Accepted spe 0.7.5c-1 (source)
<\sh> yeah it is
<ogra> yup
<\sh> it crashed after 5 mins of testing for me :(
<ogra> but edubuntu has all the kde libs installed anyway... shouldnt make probs to use eric
<\sh> ogra: pyqt/pykde stuff is in main anyways
<\sh> ogra: and I was upset about it ;)
<ogra> in opposite to wxpython
<jelkner> i'll actually be happy to use whatever you guys tell me to use
<jelkner> my main hope is to use what will eventually become the "edubuntu default"
<\sh> jelkner: check eric...really...it's a real mature IDE for python and it has a good help system..you can include everything u want
<ogra> jelkner, i'd be happy to include *one* IDE based on your expertise
<jelkner> ok, i need to run now..
<jelkner> we will down load eric and check it out
<\sh> jelkner: when are u coming to ubz?
<ogra> \sh, yes he is
<ogra> next week afaik
<\sh> ogra: so from monday?
<jelkner> \sh tuesday evening
<jelkner> i get in at 6:10 pm
<jelkner> on tuesday
<jelkner> and i'm there until sunday
<\sh> jelkner: wonderful :) so we have a lot to discuss
<jelkner> \sh what is your name?
<\sh> jelkner: StephanHermann
<\sh> jelkner: ogra will introduce ;)
<ogra> sure :)
<jelkner> excellent, Stephan, I'm looking forward to meeting you
<ogra> \sh, jelkner is the guy who will be together with the huge massive and loud guy with the cowboy hat :)
<ogra> (assuming flint comes)
<jelkner> he will be there first
<ogra> ah, k
<\sh> ogra: I wonder if I should wear my red hat fedora to be recognized ;)
<jelkner> hopefully you can rope him in before i get there
<jelkner> good luck!
<ogra> lol
<\sh> jelkner: see u in montreal :) 
<ogra> jelkner, its not a rodeo :)
<ogra> only a conferece :)
<ogra> going smoking
<\sh> ogra: the human being is allowed to smoke in public in montreal?
<ogra> \sh, sure
<ogra> my taxi driver gave me a cigarette while he drove me here from the airport :)
<crimsun> how was the flight, ogra?
<ogra> terrible ... tubulences all over ...
<ogra> i guess we flew over the remainings of katie ...
<ajmitch_> lol
<ajmitch_> ogra: but we haven't moved to launchpad yet ;)
<crimsun> ogra: ouch, sorry to hear
<ogra> i survived :)
<gand> thank bye
<pitux> hello
<\sh> oh mann
<\sh> sry
<\sh> ogra: u plan to attend the essen linux tag?
<ogra> \sh, i think so
<\sh> ogra: cool...joining u...I promised it
<\sh> "Take A Photo With A MOTU"
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> I'm a kubuntu user and I want to install edubuntu with apt-get, what must I do?
<Lord_Athur> or what repositories do I have to have for install it?
<Lord_Athur> can someone help me!!!???!!!
<pitux> aptitude install edubuntu-desktop
<pitux> search in your synpatic with the string "edubuntu"
<Lord_Athur> good idea
<Lord_Athur> :P
<pitux> ;D
<Lord_Athur> does edubuntu have a live CD for use in classrooms for example?
<weasl77> only an install disk as far as I know
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> :S
<weasl77> (it would be an ideal answer):-,
<Lord_Athur> pitux, synpatic did not find no thing
<pitux> ummmmmm
<pitux> Use the breezy version?
<pitux> sorry my english no is good
<Lord_Athur> pitux, what's your native language?
<pitux> spanish
<Lord_Athur> en ese caso tampoco tenemos problemas
<Lord_Athur> no uso breezy
<bluefrog-10> did you apt-get update?
<Lord_Athur> yes I did this before try installing edubuntu-desktop
<pitux> edubuntu is only in breezy
<Lord_Athur> why?
<pitux> edubuntu is not in hoary
<Lord_Athur> ...
<Lord_Athur> 
<Lord_Athur> that problem!
<pitux> Lord_Athur, answer my messages privates please
<Lord_Athur> can I change my sistem from hoary to freezy?
<pitux> yeah
<pitux> is very easy
<pitux> change in the sources.list the string hoary for breezy
<pitux> next sudo aptitude update
<Lord_Athur> leasve me see....
<pitux> sudo aptitude dist-upgarde
<pitux> more information in the channel #ubuntu-es
<pitux> for users in spanish
<Lord_Athur> bye
#edubuntu 2005-11-02
<pitux> hello
<pitux> i want contrib to edubuntu
<pitux> but my english is bad
<KurtKraut> pitux, never mind... I belive, besides your english is bad, you are good in your mother language
<KurtKraut> pitux, you may help edubuntu translating things to your language
<pitux> ok
<pitux> I am interesting in create comunnity edubuntu-es
<KurtKraut> pitux, it might be a wonderful beginning
<pitux> for collaborate here
<pitux> i speaked with mhz 
<pitux> he speak spanish
<KurtKraut> pitux, yo hablo un poco tambien ;D
<KurtKraut> pitux, pero no mucho
<pitux> ok
<pitux> i am teacher
<pitux> of mathematics
<pitux> i am interesting in the integration of the Tics to the education
<glen_> good evening
<Merlin---> whats the best way to make a duplicate of an HDD? ive searched all over and have always used 'dd' on the fly; but when issueing ' dd if=/hda1 of=/hdb1 ' in shell, the 2nd hdd will have I/O errors when trying to enter any directories... is there something im missing or is there a quick application that can do an HDD clone to make a backup on a 2nd hdd?
<Merlin---> #ubuntuhelp
<getaceres> hi, is anyone talking spanish here?
<highvoltage> nope.
<highvoltage> oh, sorry, i read that as "is everyone talking..."
<highvoltage> getaceres: i think there are some spanish people here now and again.
<getaceres> I want to know about the edubuntu internacionalization state
<highvoltage> getaceres: is it an edubuntu question or ubuntu? there's a spanish ubuntu channel on #ubuntu-es
<getaceres> I installed gcompris in Kubuntu but I see that all the texts are in english
<bluefrog-10> i think u need to install the spanish localisation as well
<bluefrog-10> but as i write i think u already have it
<bluefrog-10> don't u?
<getaceres> there's only files of spanish for sound
<getaceres> but there's no i18n package for gcompris
<bluefrog-10> your system is english or spanish?
<Yagisan> getaceres: only english fits on the cd, you need to download the rest
<getaceres> I downloaded it
<getaceres> my system is spanish
<getaceres> I installed it from a Kubuntu install
<getaceres> maybe is because I'm running it from KDE?
<bluefrog-10> shouldn't interfere
<getaceres> other GTK+ applications run in Spanish, like synaptic or firefox
<bluefrog-10> if you type locale in a terminal what does it give?
<getaceres> LANG=es_ES.UTF-8
<getaceres> LC_CTYPE="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_NUMERIC="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_TIME="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_COLLATE="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_MONETARY="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_MESSAGES="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_PAPER="es_ES.UTF-8"
<bluefrog-10> kkk
<getaceres> LC_NAME="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_ADDRESS="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_TELEPHONE="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_MEASUREMENT="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_IDENTIFICATION="es_ES.UTF-8"
<getaceres> LC_ALL=
<bluefrog-10> afraid i can't help right now
<bluefrog-10> have a go in #ubuntu-es if u haven't tried yet
<getaceres> ok
<getaceres> I'll try
<getaceres> there's something more
<getaceres> I configured it to open in 1024x768 fullscreen, but it keeps opening in 800x600
<getaceres> maybe it doesn't save my configuration right?
<bluefrog-10> obviously yes
<getaceres> I get this when running it from a console:
<getaceres> ** (gcompris:5998): WARNING **: config_file /home/jose/.gcompris/gcompris.conf
<getaceres> ** Message: gcompris_set_locale ''
<getaceres> ** (gcompris:5998): WARNING **: Requested locale '' got 'es_ES.UTF-8'
<getaceres> Mix_OpenAudio: No available audio device.
<getaceres> : No available audio device.
<getaceres> init_plugins 0,095003 sec.
<getaceres> gcompris_load_menus 0,099230 sec.
<getaceres> gcompris_load_mime_types 0,101184 sec.
<getaceres> __main__:1: DeprecationWarning: Module gnome.canvas is deprecated; please import gnomecanvas in                            stead
<getaceres> Not using psyco (psyco.sf.net), AI not a maximum speed!
<getaceres> I haven't configured my sound card
<getaceres> the audio error is normal
<Zaheer> hello all
<Zaheer> what is a good ide to develop C++ applications on ubuntu?
<bimberi> Hi Zaheer: anjuta perhaps, eclipse, kdevelop
<Zaheer> what do the ubuntu developers use?
<bimberi> no idea, probably vi(m) or emacs
<Zaheer> ok abit over my head then :D
<Zaheer> i'll try anjuta and eclipse... dont mean to sound silly but can you use kdevelop on gnome ?
<bimberi> Zaheer: you can (and it's not a silly question :) ), it just means that a lot of kde libraries need to be installed - and loaded when you run it
<highvoltage> hi JaneW 
<weasl77_> bineri/zaheer: are not the education modules in edubuntu written for kde? in which case, the necessary kde is probably installed
<highvoltage> weasl77_: kde applications do not need the entire kde, just the base kdelibs
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<highvoltage> do you have edubuntu installed on your laptop?
<highvoltage> i told richard that you could show him schooltool some time.
<JaneW> highvoltage: no I don;t have edubuntu installed yet
<JaneW> in fact Ihave yet to upgrade to breexy
<highvoltage> oic.
<JaneW> I intend to do both while I am here
<JaneW> Richard...?
<highvoltage> ok, i gtg now. enjoy UBL!
<weasl77> for zaheer's benefit, was just hoping!!
<symbulos> hi there.
<symbulos> Do you know of anyone using edubuntu in Ethiopia?
<symbulos> also, we would like to have a copy of Edubuntu cds. Is there a place that does CDs copies and sends them? we would pay postage/cds.
<symbulos> do you know of anyone interested in Amharic ( eventually also Orominja / Tigrinja )localisation?
<juliux> symbulos, i don't know it but i can e-mail somebody who should know it
<juliux> symbulos, or you wait if ogra is here
<symbulos> juliux: thanks!
<symbulos> juliux: when is he/she here usually (time of day)
<juliux> symbulos, no problem
<juliux> symbulos, i don't know because is at UBZ
<symbulos> UBZ?
<juliux> ubuntu bellow zero
<juliux> in montreal/canada
<juliux> it is the developer meeting 
<juliux> but after the ubz he is here normaly from 8:00-8:00 utc
<juliux> here
<symbulos> good
<juliux> but JaneW should it also know i think
<symbulos> juliux: is it possible to get a edubuntu cd from someone there? I would pay postage / cds
<symbulos> is JaneW here around?
<juliux> i think so
<juliux> symbulos, there are no official edubuntu cds
<juliux> but if there is no other soulotion i can burn you some
<symbulos> what do you mean official?
<symbulos> we live in very rural england, fastest speed we can get is 13K, we wanted to use it for a demo in a local school.
<juliux> there are no cds from canonical 
<symbulos> yep, I saw (well, I did NOT see :-D)
<juliux> but in the internet are iso for installation and i also think livecds
<symbulos> at the same time, do not understand why the usual distributor do not distribute edubuntu (like www.linuxshop.co.uk)
<juliux> yes because edubuntu is a very special product
<symbulos> yep, but download takes ages at 13k.
<juliux> oh ok
<juliux> that isn't very much
<symbulos> no it is not :-D
<juliux> ok if there no one else i can you burn the images send them to you but i am from germany 
<juliux> and if you want i can you also burn the edubuntu dvd
<symbulos> thanks. I get a look around. If do not find anyone else would you be so gentle? I pay for everything.
<juliux> i have enough bandwith here
<juliux> symbulos, if you want send me a e-mail to juliux@ubuntu-de.org
<symbulos> ok, thanks a lot
<juliux> np
<symbulos> how can i contact JanetW?
<juliux> wait
<symbulos> waiting :-9
<symbulos> :-)
<juliux> yes 
<juliux> waiting and drinking tee 
<symbulos> (coffee with cream, really :-D)
<symbulos> juliux: thanks. talk to you later.
<juliux> symbulos, ok
<JaneW> juliux: I am here, but not on IRC much, e-mails would be better if you need me to respond...
<JaneW> there are no printed CDs available at this time, but we are hoping to get a limited print run, but this is not yet confirmed.
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW 
<jsgotangco> when are you flying?
<\sh> ok...last preparations....
<\sh> shoes have to be tied to my rucksack...no place left in my bag
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> you're very excited about the trip =)
<\sh> ah well no...I just nervous because of take offs and landings...that's all
<jsgotangco> really...
* jsgotangco is used to those already...
<\sh> since I flew with delta airlines :( 
<jsgotangco> argghhh
<\sh> and I think I'll have trouble tomorrow with the security...when they see all my toys in my backpack ;)
<ogra> \sh, make sure to declare the toy stuff, you'll get way faster through customs 
<\sh> ogra: declare?
<ogra> yes, you have to fill out a crad in the plane to declare things like tobacco, alcohol etc...
<ogra> i declared my AP and switch as tools for a commercial presentatin
<\sh> oh will do
<\sh> well...the two laptops and the dlink AP
<\sh> the rest is cable stuff
<ogra> so the didnt want to see the contents of my bag (which they wanted from everyone else on the plane... they all had to unpack *everything*)
<juliux> ogra, hi
<ogra> but wanted to see the AP and the switch... were fine and waved me through
<ogra> hi juliux 
* enyc meeps
<juliux> ogra, if you have time to come to essen, would make a workshop with me abount edubuntu?
<ogra> sure
<juliux> ogra, cool
<\sh> ogra: I'm attending in essen ;) just for the "Take A Photo With A MOTU" happening *lol*
<juliux> \sh, yeah
<ogra> heh
<\sh> ogra: I'll take my two multiple sockets with me...makes 11 sockets ;) but I need them again at home ;)
<\sh> ok...going to bed...
<highvoltage> ogra: hi there.
<highvoltage> ogra: i contacted Kuswanto, he's the guy who did the gartoon theme.
<ogra> cool
<highvoltage> he's very pleased to see his artwork in edubuntu, he didn't know how far it was used.
<highvoltage> he said he'll be glad to make us some OOo icons.
<highvoltage> so i guess i'll be learning how to hack openoffice and perhaps how to package it properly this december. shew!
<ogra> highvoltage, ok, lets talk to doko about it then, he's mr ooo
<highvoltage> ok.
* enyc woiting to hear more from the nursery-users of edubuntu ;-)
<highvoltage> nursery-users?
<enyc> yes'
<highvoltage> what is that?
<enyc> in daycare nursery ;p
<highvoltage> aaaaaaah
<highvoltage> ogra: you ever listen to rammstein?
* enyc in head-office of 5 businesses [!] 
<enyc> how silly
<ogra> highvoltage, lets say, i can bear it :)
<ogra> its certainly not in my favorites but its ok
<highvoltage> ogra: what kind of music do you listen to then, or are you not a big music listener?
<ogra> nearly everything... i didnt hear much music the last years
<enyc> ~0000
<JaneW> argh, jet lag is catching up with me...
<JaneW> is it bed time yet?
<juliux> it's 19:34 UTC
<JaneW> 4:30pm here
<JaneW> oops 4:40 now
<ogra> JaneW, install gwordclock ;)
<JaneW> ogra: does it take jet lag away? :)
<ogra> hehe, not really ... but you can see the time in the different timezones
<JaneW> I am now regretting get up early this am...
<mhz> hi
<ogra> ho
<mhz> how's montreal?
<mhz> i was reading about ltspFS...it sounds pretty cool
<ogra> cold
<ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltspfs/
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> just packaged it
<mhz> ogra: yesterday, i presented edubuntu to about 60 people (mostly highschool students)
<ogra> ltspfsd is just in my hands 
<mhz> ogra: ltspfs great !!! you definately rock
<ogra> lets see... i need to get it included sanely in our environment... currently thats only the package :)
<mhz> ogra: after presentations, 5 university students asked me if they could cooperate with development. I said yes, but they have huge issues with english. Can i just start a ML edubuntu-la? and be a kind of 'interpreter' from them to you?
<mhz> ogra: but we all know you'll make it good
<ogra> i'll talk to our mailing list maintainer
<mhz> thx
<mhz> ML will help, esp. considering we are almost ready for Edubuntu Chilean Tour
<ogra> how many estimated initial subscribers would there be ? 
<mhz> subscribers today? no more than 12, for sure. Once the tour begins, no idea, but hopefully over 50
<mhz> ogra: any news about CD's or Edubuntu material for presentations (t-shirts, paper, posters, mugs or anything)?
<ogra> mhz, not yet... JaneW and i had not much time to talk yet
<ogra> but i have one contact in germany who would probably be willing to produce CDs on demand
<mhz> ogra: Tour/ if we endup getting funds (we'll see once we begin, as we are knocking on some biz doors) we'd like to continue with a LA tour.
<ogra> mhz, then you should contact mdz, he's local
<mhz> ? what you mean?
<mhz> BTW, we're working with a couple of Math teacher in order to combine Chilean educational curriculum with Edubuntu tools. Also, we're working on a kind of survey that helps us identify different teachers profiles and see who would actually be open minded enough to use IT tools.
<mhz> So far, we've detected som reticent teacher to use IT tools :(
<ogra> mdz is from LA
<ogra> mhz ^^
<mhz> ooohh
<tinker1976> good evening, who can answer me on simple questions about edubuntu?
<mhz> shoot
<tinker1976> isnt any live version of edubuntu?
<tinker1976> even an old one?
<tinker1976> i like it and i'd like to use it at school but 
<tinker1976> they have got winxp installed and the system administrator is paranoic 
<tinker1976> when he has to repartioning HDs :)
<mhz> not yet
<tinker1976> in italy we have got a distro eduknoppix 
<tinker1976> and they distribute it at school 
<tinker1976> but it hasnt as much as edulinux
<mhz> tinker1976: that admin MUST be paranoic esp. if he uses XP :) he knows the system will fail
<mhz> agree
<tinker1976> eheheh ... 
<tinker1976> i wanted to show some progs to my students like 
<tinker1976> (i dont remember the name)
<tinker1976> the program to draw geometric figures
<tinker1976> Kfig? 
<tinker1976> anyway thanx a lot. I hope to see soon a live distro of edubuntu ... or my sysadmin changed school. See you soon. Bye 
<ogra> tinker1976, with the next release we'll have a liveCD too
<tinker1976> really , when will it exit?
<mhz> april, i guess
<tinker1976> what about the support for foreign languages?
<mhz> what you mean?
<mhz> I am already using edubuntu in spanish and english
<ogra> mhz, is it really edubuntu-la, not edubuntu-cl you want ? 
<ogra> tinker1976, we support 90 languages already 
<mhz> well... of course I'd prefer CL but then i thought I was being selfish ignoring other people needs in LA.
<tinker1976> which differences are there beetween Cl and La? 
<tinker1976> cleveland or los angeles :-))
<ogra> mhz, we wont support mailing lists for continents or continental parts ;) 
<ogra> just pick your language or country for the suffix
<ogra> so it would be -cl i guess
<mhz> tinker1976: cl and la.. not many diff. LA and ES? well, many diff. because they use several (too many) words we do no tuse in Latin amercia
<mhz> ogra: okidoki
<ogra> would you like to become listmaster ? 
<tinker1976> ehehe i'll look for ubuntu-it :-) italian then
<mhz> ogra: will that be helpful? won't i be stepping on someone elses responsibilities? if not, then Ok, I have no problems
<ogra> mhz, normally it would be me.. but since i have no clue about spanish or any spanish based lang, i couldnt even consider spam from non spam
<mhz> hehe
<ogra> mhz, are you ubuntu member already ? 
<mhz> ok, then i volunteer
<mhz> I can apply if you want/need me to. I hadn't mainly because I felt it was for developers (programmers or admins)
<ogra> it absolutely isnt !
<mhz> lol
<ogra> but you need a signed gpg key to sign the code of conduct...
<mhz> sorry, that was my first impression the only time i though tabout it
<mhz> ogra: sure, gpg, no problem i can manage
<ogra> but we have many LoCo team members that only do local support and documentation ... all are members
<mhz> ok, I'll start the process immediately
<mhz> but first I'll see if i fulfill the requirements
<mhz> or that is not necessary?
<ogra> make a wikipage that describes you... 
<ogra> add all your contributions you made to ubuntu/edubuntu so far ...
<ogra> create a launchpad account and sign the code of conduct, the add yourself to the CommunityCouncil Agenda and apply for the launchpad members team...
<mhz> oh, it sounds "well thought" and yet simple
<ogra> you must attend the meeting and will be considered for member then ... 
<ogra> considering that jane and i will speak up for you (you already did a lot of good stuff) it should be fairly easy
<mhz> cool, thx for the confidence
#edubuntu 2005-11-03
<mhz> ogra: any ideas why my name is Mauricio Hernandez but when i am logged in, i appear as Mauriciohernandez and therefore I have to #redirect it to MauricioHernandez
<mhz> JaneW: how are you doing? too cold?
<ogra> mhz, jdub asks m if you cant do a more general ubuntu LoCo team ... 
<ogra> instead of something education related
<ogra> (but covering it ... if i understood right= 
<ogra> )
<mhz> hmmm, yes why not :)
* mhz is happy to help
<mhz> actually i do know many chilean people already using ubuntu
* mhz has given out at least 80 cds already
<JaneW> hi mhz
<mhz> hey JaneW 
* JaneW just upgraded to breezy... it's doing surprising things, but I think I like it :)
<mhz> hehehe
<JaneW> mhz: it;s actually not TOO cold outside - it is nippy though, except the air con is cold in this room!
* mhz loves 17 C degrees
<mhz> JaneW: do you have an specialist on designing surveys?
<JaneW> mhz: no I don't think so
<mhz> ok
<mhz> JaneW: did you have a chance to read my email to you ?
<JaneW> help, my inbox is gone!
<mhz> ?
<mhz> gone?
<JaneW> wait, maybe that's a good thing ...;)
<mhz> lol
<ogra> ouch
<JaneW> yes, my e-mail all came up and looked normal, but there's no inbox
<ogra> JaneW, seb128 maintains evolution ;)
<ogra> he's on -devel
<mhz> hmmmm, i use webmail interfaces
<mhz> do you at least have the chance to keep mails on server side?
<JaneW> ogra: ok I'll ask him
<mhz> ogra: i have just signed code of conduct and it feels good
<mhz> :)
<ogra> cool :)
<mhz> .oO(gee! lot of pasword entering :)
<mhz> you mentioned earlier that I should wiki a pae about myself, right. I already did so (some weeks ago). Anything relevant missing there?
<mhz> ogra: how can i change this info in launchpad? :
<mhz> Registered Details
<mhz> Wiki: 	Mauriciohernandez, Mauriciohernandez 
<mhz> I do not want to be Mauriciohernandez but MauricioHernandez :)
<ogra> there must be a edit function
<mhz> hmm, yes but can't modify that
<mhz> never mind, i'll mail the launchpad team
<ogra> or ask in #launchpad ;)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> ogra: hhmmm there seems to be an intent for LoCo Team Latinoamerica by RolandoBlanco
<ogra> make it a chilenian LoCo
<mhz> hehe, yes but are you sure i'm not gonna be reinventing the wheel or doubling the work?
<ogra> i know jeff isnt happy with a latin ameriacan LoCo, its just to big
<ogra> Lo==(Local) Co==(community)
<mhz> good point
* mhz is then editing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<ogra> :)
<mhz> just maybe (hope) one last question. Non english speakers/people interested in edubuntu (not necessarily Linux stuff, like ubuntu) development, where should they address to? if we focus on ChileanLoCo team won't we be giving a different 1st impresion? IMHO, edubuntu is linux tools esp. oriented for schools, teachers, and students needs, more than how do i do this ir that on linux. Edubuntu is way diiferent from a normal ubuntu user, or not?
<ogra> thats my opinion too.. but it needs to be discussed more...
<ogra> normally it should be that every country has a community ... so you can get support and help as well as fair presence from this team...
<ogra> dinner
<mhz> dinner time for me too
<pitux> i have a question
<pitux> for enter to schooltool el user is?
<pitux> for enter to schooltool ,the user is?
<pitux> the password is?
<mhz> pitux: did you try #schooltool
<pitux> ohhhh thanks
<pitux> read mhz read
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> no lu pude evitar
<pitux> is my english very bad?
<mhz> not at all
<mhz> communication is important
<mhz> more than perfect syntaxis
<odie5533> I just set up a normal edubuntu install and when I went to boot a thin client it just went into windows instead of into Edubuntu. Any ideas?
<Yagisan> odie5533: did you have a boot floppy or boot cd in the client ? does the client support pxe ?
<odie5533> boot floppy. It doesn't support PXE.
<Yagisan> odie5533: it obviously didn't boot from the floppy then. Check the BIOS settings on the client and make sure it boots from "A:" first
<odie5533> I did, and it is
<odie5533> is there anyway to read the floppy from linux?
<Yagisan> odie5533: not the etherboot floppies, they are only a bootloader
<odie5533> Do the floppies say anything if they are booted too?
<Yagisan> odie5533: yes, they that a display saying looking for server for a few seconds
<Yagisan> s/sthat/have
<odie5533> I didn't get that. I have a feeling that my floppy drive on the server (this pc, which I made the floppy on) is bad. Anyway to test that?
<Yagisan> odie5533: did the floppy drive light turn on and drive spin up ?
<odie5533> On the server, yes
<Yagisan> odie5533: what about on the client ?
<odie5533> I believe so. The floppy drive works on the client I am sure, I was using it in windows
<Yagisan> odie5533: possibly a bad disk.
<Yagisan> odie5533: how did you make the floppy ?
<odie5533> the dd command
<odie5533> how do I format a floppy to vfat in edubuntu?
<odie5533> (just to test itP)
<Yagisan> mkfs.vfat -c /dev/fd0
<odie5533> it says it found bad blocks
<odie5533> that bad?
<Yagisan> it means fault floppy disk
<Yagisan> faulty
<odie5533> all 3 of my floppy disks say that :S seems I need to invest more in floppy disks
<Yagisan> tends to happen with older disks
<odie5533> I think these are about as old as they come
<Yagisan> heh - I still have 5.25" around, and the drive they go in
<odie5533> Still have one? my other pc has one hooked up and running :S
<odie5533> I got about 1000 of those 5.25" disks to go with it too
<odie5533> it says its bad on all of these. They worked in windows?
<odie5533> on my other pc
<Yagisan> odie5533: probably not, windows will happily write to bad sectors and not check if the data was written correctly
<Yagisan> odie5533: you only find out when you try to read the data back
<Yagisan> odie5533: put them in the windows pc and run scandisk on them, it will also say faulty
<odie5533> Can you run a scandisk w/o formatting the disk?
<Yagisan> yes - there should be a menu item for it
<odie5533> Hmm windows won't format them... gives me errors. Suppose they are all bad...
<odie5533> well this particular client has a cd rom drive, ill try booting from it
<odie5533> Is there anything special I need to do to edubuntu? or can I just plug the rj45 cord into the client and I'm done?
<Yagisan> odie5533: nothing special, just plug the cord in
<Yagisan> odie5533: you seem familiar
<odie5533> ok, well gonna dc from irc. thanks for the help
<Yagisan> no worries
<odie5533> Yagisan: still there?
<odie5533> When I boot a thin client it says No Ip Address
<juliux> odie5533, check that the dhcp server is runnning
<juliux> odie5533, and what is with our tuxpaint battle?
<Yagisan> odie5533: just got back
<Yagisan> odie5533: was your dhcp server running ?  ps ax | grep dhcpd3
<odie5533> My thin client gets out of memory errors :S
<odie5533> I thought thin clients were just that, thin clients, thus not needing an amazing amount of memory?
<Yagisan> odie5533: how much ram does it have ?
<Yagisan> odie5533: they don't need much ram, just enough to boot, display your screen and take care of the input.
<Yagisan> odie5533: I needed 64MB in my thin clients. IIRC that is less then what commercial thin clients come with
<odie5533> My think client has 32mb of RAM
<odie5533> *thin
<odie5533> I guess thats not enough...
<Yagisan> odie5533: not for current edubuntu :(
<odie5533> how much does an extra stick of 32mb ram cost?
<Yagisan> odie5533: don't know, they don't sell that small anymore
<Yagisan> odie5533: should be able to pick up some memory cheap on ebay
<Yagisan> odie5533: what is your thin client ? p2, p3 ?
<odie5533> p2
<Yagisan> odie5533: you would need SDRAM
<odie5533> I was gonna have a p3 run as a server, but it only has 64mb of ram, obviously not enough to run any clients...
<odie5533> The 32mb strips on ebay are like $10 ea...
<Yagisan> odie5533: that server needs more RAM
<Yagisan> odie5533: look for bigger strips, they don't cost much must more
<odie5533> if you don't mind me pasting ebay links... http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-21-32MB-PC66-SDRAM-Memory-Tested-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ6814269099QQcategoryZ14914QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<odie5533> is that the type of memory that'd work?
<Yagisan> odie5533: for the p2 yes
<Yagisan> odie5533: for the p3 no
<odie5533> oh?
<odie5533> why not?
<Yagisan> odie5533: old p2 can use pc66, pc100 or pc133 ram. newer p2 uses pc100 or pc133, p3 needs pc133
<Yagisan> odie5533: this may be a better choice, depending on how old those p2 systems are http://cgi.ebay.com/lot-of-5-Pc100-64mb-320mb-sdram-memory-168-pin-ram_W0QQitemZ6813925980QQcategoryZ14916QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
<Yagisan> odie5533: happy shopping
<odie5533> Yea... the alternative though is scrapping 2 of the p2's to allow there to be a client and a server with 96mb of ram and 64mb of ram... hmm
<odie5533> whats the minimum amm of memory for a p3 server to run a few clients?
<Yagisan> odie5533: I tend to allow about 64MB per simultaneous user on the server + 64MB buffer
<Yagisan> odie5533: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ServerSizing
<odie5533> With that much memory the server can't hold what 5 clients tops?
<odie5533> Is there a way to set a different window manager (such as xfce)?
<odie5533> for the clients I mean
<odie5533> and is there a way to boot off of the internet? IE have my pc at home boot the pc's at the school?
<Yagisan> odie5533: I've never tried. You make all the changes on the server, I think that if you installed xubuntu on the server
<Yagisan> odie5533: and removed ubuntu-desktop, that may work
<Yagisan> odie5533: you don't want to try booting over the Internet, it's a) incredibly insecure, b) rather slow, c) more hassle then it's worth
<odie5533> =/
<odie5533> Is there a low memory linux that will run on a p2 with 32mb of ram?
<Yagisan> odie5533: normal ltsp (not edubuntu) just squeezes into 32mb, and normal ubuntu runs (slowly)
<Yagisan> odie5533: but no desktop linux really runs in less then 64mb of ram
<Yagisan> odie5533: servers yes, desktops not really
<odie5533> not even with like xfce?
<Yagisan> odie5533: that helps, fluxbox and icewm use even less - but you'll need to do the install and measure the ram useage for us
<Yagisan> odie5533: I measured what the clients use, but I can't take my server down - it's already in production
<Yagisan> odie5533: no chance of buying more ram ?
<odie5533> Kinda defeats the purpose of using an old pc as I see it
<odie5533> The pcs were half a step from the garbage as it was
<Yagisan> odie5533: I was talking about the server
<Yagisan> odie5533: my clients are a several p2 64MB,  a k6/2 320MB
<odie5533> erm, the server is running windows fine
<Yagisan> odie5533: what version ?
<odie5533> and I don't think my mom will like edubuntu over windows if its costs more than a dime
<odie5533> 98
<odie5533> the clients all had 98 too
<Yagisan> odie5533: what applications, and how much swap did they use
<odie5533> No idea on the Swap, applications were Microsoft Word (97/2000) and Internet Explorer
<Yagisan> odie5533: that would be about 160MB swap + more depending on how many IE windows are open
<odie5533> IE probably 1
<Yagisan> odie5533: regardless of what you use, they need more ram
<odie5533> well that is what they came with
<odie5533> the p3 came from dell with 64mb ram, win98, and office 97, seems to work quite fine
<odie5533> a bit slow, but its better than not booting and just saying out of memory
<Yagisan> odie5533: off the shelf pc's are never sold with enough ram, so we can charge more for the upgrade
<odie5533> Schools don't buy upgrades, at least this one doesn't
<Yagisan> odie5533: that slowness is it needing to use swap just to start
<Yagisan> ogra: ping
<odie5533> Well kids don't normally start it, my mom just turned it on in the morning and off at night
<Yagisan> odie5533: there may be a solution for getting the clients to start without buying more ram - I need to talk to the developer about it
<Yagisan> odie5533: See if we can get network swap, or on disk swap running
<Yagisan> odie5533: but get some more ram for the server, "borrow" it from another class
<odie5533> I asked my mom about that. The principal got socked in the chest on thursday so it was a bad day to ask, and today she was bringing home the p3 server, can't ask for everything on the same day I suppose
<odie5533> the pcs in all the classrooms really arent used and are going to be thrown out soon
<Yagisan> odie5533: are they going to buy more pcs ?
<odie5533> They bought a few new ones
<odie5533> top of the line with flat screens
<Yagisan> odie5533: for the classroom ?
<odie5533> but the teachers are supposed to use em
<odie5533> mainly just the teachers
<odie5533> the pcs were bought with grant money I believe
<odie5533> its probably one of if not the poorest district in the south side of chicago
<Yagisan> odie5533: well, at least you can try out the server on the p3
<odie5533> The others I suppose I'll just use windows
<odie5533> I have a lot of educational software I can install, so not exactly a total loss
<odie5533> well im gonna go to sleep. gnight Yagisan
<highvoltage> geez, and i was just about to ask him about that tuxpaint tournament.
<Yagisan> highvoltage: what tuxpaint tournament ?
<highvoltage> i'm going to paste an older conversation below...
<highvoltage> 08:24 < odie5533> how good are you in TuxPaint?
<highvoltage> 08:24 < juliux> never used
<highvoltage> 08:24 < odie5533> im probably better at it than you
<highvoltage> 08:24 < juliux> yes
<highvoltage> 08:24 < odie5533> Wanna have a TuxPaint Battle?
<highvoltage> 08:24 < juliux> no thanks
<highvoltage> 08:25 < odie5533> o
<highvoltage> 08:25 < juliux> i have to go to university in a few minutes
<highvoltage> 08:25 < odie5533> lets have the battle when you get back ok?
<highvoltage> 08:25 < juliux> ok
<highvoltage> 08:26 < odie5533> bring it on
<highvoltage> 08:26 < juliux> i will do
<highvoltage> 08:27 < juliux> at first i have to install it on my computer
<Yagisan> highvoltage: hah
<Yagisan> highvoltage: perhaps I should have my little girl submit an entry
<enyc> ''TuxPaint Battle'' lol
<davidbro> I have just installed Edubuntu - disabled IPV6 as is does not work with my system/server - Firefox works well now but I get timed out when I try and connect to the repositories?  Any ideas?
<highvoltage> i just installed edubuntu, then i logged in, changed hostname, logged out, and when i ran sudo again, it said that it can't get my hostname by gethostname()
<highvoltage> (yes, i know, very clever of me)
<highvoltage> any way to use sudo and edit /etc/hosts withour rebooting?
<juliux> ogra around?
<highvoltage> nope
<juliux> shit
<juliux> i present gnome/ubuntu/edubuntu at a fair in germany
<highvoltage> how did it go?
<juliux> very very good
<highvoltage> nice :)
<juliux> we have a edubuntu server with one client
<juliux> very nice to see
<juliux> and a lot of visitors asks for edubuntu cds
<highvoltage> which fair was this?
<juliux> it is a linux info day at the univeristy of dresden/germany
<juliux> www.linux-info-tag.de
<highvoltage> they should get a freedom toaster there :)
<zakame> hi all
<highvoltage> hi zakame 
<zakame> wazup here?
<highvoltage> it's quietish.
<highvoltage> everyone's at UBZ
<zakame> adjusting, as I gather in -devel :)
<highvoltage> :)
<zakame> hi ogra ! :D
<ogra> hola
<highvoltage> hola ogra
<ogra> hey highvoltage 
<ajmitch_> hi ogra, how are you?
* ajmitch_ waves to JaneW 
<ogra> ajmitch_, fine, thanks...
<ogra> are you all downstairs ? 
* highvoltage ~)))'s JaneW 
<ajmitch_> ogra: I'm in my room at the hotel
<ajmitch_> I've hardly seen anyone else around
<JaneW> hi ajmitch_  and highvoltage 
<highvoltage> JaneW: very cold there?
<ajmitch_> highvoltage: not really
<ajmitch_> rather disappointing actually
<highvoltage> hehe/
<JaneW> it's surprisingly warm today
<JaneW> the conf room is colder than anything else ...
* ajmitch_ saw fabbione on his way in, and met with riddell a few minutes ago
<ajmitch_> JaneW: where do we actually meet up for ubuntu love day?
<JaneW> ajmitch_: in the 'ballroom' downstairs, called Dahlia
<JaneW> level S1
<ajmitch_> ok, thanks :)
* ajmitch_ would hate to be wandering around lost tomorrow morning )
<highvoltage> ifconfig
<highvoltage> sorry, wrong keyboard
<mhz> hi
<highvoltage> hi mhz 
<mhz> hi, Mr voltage
<ogra> mhz, you need to get your gpg key signed... 
<mhz> but i did yesterday, didn't i?
<ogra> i checked your launchpad page this morning...
<ogra> the *key* must be signed...
<ogra> its not in the strong set if nobody signed it
<mhz> hmmm, would you?
<ogra> yes, but you need to meet in person to sign keys
<ogra> so you would have to come here :/
<ogra> its not that easy
<mhz> see? as i said, I should have been there
<ogra> do you know any debian developer near you ? 
<mhz> debian developer in Chile? Just one, who lives far from me and with whom I have many discussions
<mhz> regarding freedom
<mhz> I can scan my ID card and send it :)
<mhz> also my passport
<mhz> ogra: will canonical support and pay for your tickets to Chile for our first Edubuntu Chilean Tour?
<mhz> ogra: what other kind of people would be candidates to get my key signed ?
<jsgotangco> errr why does mhz need his key signed?
<mhz> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> mhz: people in the debian keyring if possible
<jsgotangco> so that the connection will be established
<mhz> yep, AFAIK, we have just one Chilean Debian developer
<ogra> jsgotangco, because he goes for membership
<jsgotangco> ogra: i thought membership didn't require a key...uploaders do...
<ogra> he wants a chilenian mailing list... i cant do administration for something i cant rea :)
<jsgotangco> ahhhh
<ogra> membeship requires a signed code of conduct ...
<ogra> signed with a valid key
<ogra> mhz, look at biglumber.com if you find any other chilenian...
<mhz> so, that would be the only pending requirement from me so far?
<mhz> okidoki
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> mhz: just get your key signed by a DD preferably and you'll get connected easily
<mhz> good point
<mhz> .oO(gee! I was in peru talking about edubuntu 2 months ago. There was DD there!)
<jsgotangco> im sure there is at least one person there who is well connected :)
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> coool! this guy has been working on many FreeTech projects I have been part of
<mhz> http://www.biglumber.com/x/web?ev=28294;qh=2836
* mhz is calling the guy
<jsgotangco> mhz: http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/mk_path.cgi?FROM=531406B2&TO=9E379FC6&PATHS=trust+paths
<mhz> cool! 3 of them know me well
<mhz> thx, jsgotangco 
* mhz leaving
<stef__> Hello.
<stef__> I'n new to this, so go easy on me ;-)
<stef__> anyone ?
<stef__> Hmm, must be the timezone. I'll check in later. Bye.
<highvoltage> edubot: Ubuntu is <reply> Ubuntu is a very popular GNU/Linux distribution. The word "Ubuntu" means humanity to others, and it's the philosophy that Ubuntu is built on. For more information, see http://www.ubuntu.com
<edubot> highvoltage: sure thing
<highvoltage> edubot: \sh is 
<edubot> highvoltage: *blink*
<highvoltage> edubot: \sh is Stephan Hermann
<edubot> highvoltage: okay
<highvoltage> edubot: ajmitch is Andrew Mitchell
<edubot> highvoltage: okay
<highvoltage> edubot: Seveas is Dennis Kaaremaaker
<edubot> highvoltage: okay
<Seveas> oh no, not more bots...
<Seveas> ;)
<highvoltage> Seveas: we're all going to be replaced by bots some day.
<highvoltage> the problem is that a million monkey's have been typing relentlessly on IRC for decades, and nothing even closely resembles shakespear.
<highvoltage> edubot: FAQ is <reply> The Edubuntu FAQ can be found on the Edubuntu wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFAQ
<edubot> highvoltage: gotcha
<highvoltage> edubot: mwest is Matthew west
<edubot> highvoltage: okay
<Seveas> so we have a matthew east and a matthew west?
<highvoltage> yep :)
<highvoltage> i knew matthew west when i met metthew east, so it was a bit confusing for me too :)
<highvoltage> edubot: jsgotangco is Jeremy Gotangco
<edubot> highvoltage: gotcha
<highvoltage> edubot: Documentation is <reply> Links to Edubuntu documentation can be found at http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
<edubot> highvoltage: gotcha
<highvoltage> why did they write a gdm-keeps-crashing but not a nautilus-keeps-crashing... sigh.
<KungFu> hola
#edubuntu 2005-11-04
<KungFu> If anyone is home...  Is Edubuntu basically the same as Ubuntu from a tech support perspective?
<highvoltage> Hi KungFu 
<KungFu> hi
<highvoltage> It's something I've been wondering about as well.
<highvoltage> What exactly do you mean, are you asking in terms of official support from canonical?
<highvoltage> Edubuntu has the same release cycle as Ubuntu, and the same security updates, etc will apply.
<KungFu> Well I have some good instructions on getting DVD playback on Ubuntu but I am running Edubuntu for my daughter...
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, are you here?
<highvoltage> The DVD playback instructions should work fine on Edubuntu.
<bluefrog-10> KungFu, it will be the same
<highvoltage> hi jelkner 
<KungFu> great... thanks
<jelkner> highvoltage: hi! with whom am i chatting?
<highvoltage> edubot: highvoltage
<edubot> highvoltage is Jonathan Carter
<highvoltage> :)
<jelkner> i've got an emergency situation and i'm here looking for help
<highvoltage> fire away
<jelkner> just did an edubuntu install
<jelkner> server has 2 nicks
<jelkner> s/nicks/nics
<jelkner> first nic is 192.168.0.140
<jelkner> eth1 is 192.168.1.254
<jelkner> clients need to boot off eth1
<jelkner> dhcp is not working
<jelkner> clients aren't booting
<jelkner> i read http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
<highvoltage> did you specify 192.168.1.254 during installation?
<jelkner> no, i specified 192.168.0.140 since that is the nic going to the outside world
<bluefrog-10> dhcp is not working or failing to start?
<jelkner> it started
<jelkner> or at least there was no error message
<highvoltage> if i were in that situation, and it was urgent, i would edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and change it manually
<jelkner> i did that
<jelkner> but perhaps i didn't do it right
<highvoltage> and you restarted dhcpd?
<bluefrog-10> 0. is connected to a hub to which clients are connected to as well?
<jelkner> yes
<jelkner> here is what it looks like now:
<highvoltage> jelkner: did you cat /var/log/syslog afterwards?
<highvoltage> you can also check whether dhcpd is running by "ps aux | grep dhcpd"
<highvoltage> you should get back the line you entered and another with a running dhcpd instance
<bluefrog-10> paste your dhcp.conf
<highvoltage> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl
<jelkner> dhcpd    28950  0.0  0.0   2804  1488 ?        Ss   17:46   0:00 /usr/sbin/dhcpd3 -q -pf /var/run/dhcp3-server/dhcpd.pid -cf /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<jelkner> root      2724  0.0  0.0   1620   488 pts/0    R+   18:13   0:00 grep dhcpd
<highvoltage> ok, so dhcpd is running.
<highvoltage> can you send us your dhcpd.conf?
<highvoltage> and how did you restart dhcpd?
<bluefrog-10> on the clients what's the error if any?
<jelkner> authoritative;
<jelkner> subnet 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 {
<jelkner>   range 192.168.1.100 192.168.1.150;
<jelkner>   option domain-name "twsc.org";
<jelkner>   option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.2;
<jelkner>   option broadcast-address 192.168.1.255;
<jelkner>   option routers 192.168.0.1;
<jelkner>   option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
<jelkner>   filename "/ltsp/pxelinux.0";
<jelkner>   option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386";
<jelkner> }
<jelkner> the clients are finding a dhcp server
<jelkner> s/aren't/are
<highvoltage> dhcp is working fine, but is not set up properly.
<highvoltage> no, i'm lying. sorry :)
<jelkner> ok, please explain
<jelkner> i think the issue is the 2 nic
<jelkner> s/nics/nic
<jelkner> is it running on the wrong interface?
<highvoltage> i don't think so, dhcpd will listen on the interface where that ip address lives.
<highvoltage> your option routers is possibly wrong, too.
<bluefrog-10> change your 168.0 in 168.1 restart dhcp and have a go
<jelkner> but 168.0 is the gateway
<jelkner> we have a strange double nat situation
<bluefrog-10> then change the 1 in 0
<highvoltage> ok
<highvoltage> jelkner: how did you restart dhcp3-server?
<highvoltage> try:
<jelkner> /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start
<highvoltage> not restart?
<jelkner> just did restart, and it failed
<highvoltage> cat /var/log/syslog
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:20:20 edubuntu dhcpd: No subnet declaration for eth0 (192.168.0.140).
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:20:20 edubuntu dhcpd: ** Ignoring requests on eth0.  If this is not what
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:20:20 edubuntu dhcpd:    you want, please write a subnet declaration
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:20:20 edubuntu dhcpd:    in your dhcpd.conf file for the network segment
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:20:20 edubuntu dhcpd:    to which interface eth0 is attached. **
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:20:20 edubuntu dhcpd:
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:20:20 edubuntu dhcpd:
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:20:20 edubuntu dhcpd: Not configured to listen on any interfaces!
<jelkner> but that is the wrong interface
<bluefrog-10> vi /etc/default/dhcp3
<linuxboy> edubot: HiveDrone 
<edubot> linuxboy: excuse me?
<linuxboy> edubot: highvoltage 
<edubot> highvoltage is Jonathan Carter
<highvoltage> jelkner: yes, you might need to add eth1 to that file
<jelkner> 0 vi /etc/default/dhcp3-server ?
<linuxboy> edubot: karma highvoltage 
<edubot> linuxboy: highvoltage has neutral karma
<highvoltage> jelkner: yes
<bluefrog-10> INTERFACES=
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:23:24 edubuntu dhcpd: No subnet declaration for eth1 (0.0.0.0).
<jelkner> Oct 29 18:23:24 edubuntu dhcpd: ** Ignoring requests on eth1.  If this is not what
<jelkner> this is a different error
<jelkner> after INTERFACES="eth1"
<jelkner> and a restart
<highvoltage> what do you get if you type ifconfig eth1?
<highvoltage> is your ip address properly set?
<jelkner> thanks, we got it!
<jelkner> eth1 was not up
<jelkner> i used the gnome networking tool, but that didn't work
<jelkner> after "ifconfig eth1 up"
<highvoltage> i usually edit /etc/network/interfaces
<jelkner> all is well!
<jelkner> ok, let me do that
<highvoltage> man interfaces explains it nicely
<jelkner> i'm going to log off to restart server and see what happens now
<jelkner> thanks!
<ogra> hi
<ogra> oh, missed jelkner
<ogra> highvoltage, dont edit /etc/default/dhcp3-server
<highvoltage> ok, what should we do?
<ogra> the dhcp server automatically pics up the first matching ip range
<ogra> the only thing that is needed, is the right static entry in /etc/netwrk/interfaces
<bluefrog-10> oh so that's a change with normal ltsp running, correct?
<ogra> it must match the range from the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
<highvoltage> i thought so too, i just assumed his network card was already up, and that was the only other thing i could think of editing, i think bluefrog-10 though across the same lines.
<ogra> thats the default the ubuntu/edubuntu dhcpd uses
<bluefrog-10> weird cause under ubuntu and normal ltsp (not standalone) i have to edit it to have it working
<ogra> yup, thats a change i made to dhcpd, it now "just works" if the matching interface is found running
<ogra> nope
<bluefrog-10> oh yeah that's a change then
<ogra> not in breezy
<ogra> in breezy it will "just work"  
<ogra> (as long as the interface is up indeed :)
<bluefrog-10> gonna have a look riht away
<ogra> thats why th edubuntu installer uses a static ip and doesnt pick dhcp as default as ubuntu does
<ogra> so i can guarantee there is a interface with static ip post install
<bluefrog-10> yep so much for me...
<bluefrog-10> don't know why i was fiddling with it then :)
<jelkner> highvoltage: thanks, all is working!
<ogra> for dapper the dhcpd.conf will even be autogenerated, i sadly wasnt allowed to get the patch in anymore
<highvoltage> jelkner: ogra just informed us, there was no need to edit the /etc/default/dhcp3-server file, I suggest you change it back.
<ogra> as long as he doesnt change anything, the entry can stay... its just odd if you forget about it and have probs later ;)
<jelkner> ok, change "eth1" to ""
<ogra> as it was before :)
<jelkner> that's how it was before
<jelkner> ogra: question: we are finding a strange bug?
<ogra> jelkner, i just explained, the dhcpd in breezy was changed to automatically pick up the right interface if the range in /etcltsp/dhcpd.conf matches a running interface with static ip
<jelkner> often time, a user needs to log in 3 times before they can get in, have you seen this before?
<ogra> just make sure the interface is up... thats why the installer uses a static entry
<ogra> its a feature
<jelkner> lol
<ogra> jelkner, only if you already were logged in...
<jelkner> ahh
<ogra> its my worst bug that nobody has an explanation for yet
<ogra> see the install notes wikipage, its linked there
<jelkner> yeah
<jelkner> ok
<jelkner> they were asking me about it at the library
<ogra> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15244
<jelkner> i give them my stock response: "it will be fixed in dapper" ;-)
<ogra> it takes quite exactly a minute, then you can log in smoothly
<ogra> yup
<ogra> thats right, else i can resign :)
<jelkner> i have confidence in you
<ogra> the strange thing is that you really can stopwatch it
<highvoltage> that is interesting.
<ogra> but there isno timeout of 60ec anywhere in the affected apps
<jelkner> ok, i need to run
<ogra> else it would be easy :)
<jelkner> this has been great! another successfull edubuntu install
<jelkner> cya in montreal!
<ogra> bah, he never remembers to read the install notes ... else he wouldnt come here once a week and ask the same questions
<ogra> we had the dhcpd thing three times now
<highvoltage> hehe.
<highvoltage> i can't talk either, i forget about the installnotes as well.
<bluefrog-10> not sure if my following question fits in the right place at the right time but well doesn't cost to ask, there wouldn't be a job opportunity for a frenchy as manual writer/tester, install and user training by chance?
<ogra> tatoo it on your forehead :) there are only two things you need to know for a successfull install, both are outlined/linked there :)
<highvoltage> edubot: InstallNotes is <reply> Read the InstallNotes at http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<edubot> highvoltage: gotcha
<ogra> bluefrog-10, i guess we are still too small for more employed people ... dunno if there will be people hired for ubuntu though... but in any case you'd have to be around for some time already and have made some amount of contributions...
<bluefrog-10> working on it
<ogra> so just stay with us and if we'll grow to millons of installations over the world, the surely will be a chance... currently we dont even have a real userbase... its just growing
<ogra> time for dinner ...
<highvoltage> time for bed this side.
<highvoltage> goodnight.
<bluefrog-10> bye
<ogra> bye
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<arkan0x> mhz, calameishon
<arkan0x> mhz, calmeishon
<mhz> hey
<arkan0x> como llegaste ?>
<mhz> okidoki
<mhz> visita #ubuntu-laptop
<mhz> arkan0x: y tu? cero rollo?
<arkan0x> sep
<zakame> hi all
<mhz> hi
<bluefrog-10> I set up apt-proxy on breezy. using synaptic works (I have installed one package). Now I'd like to import the existing /var/cache/apt/archives into my /data/apt-proxy. When I do apt-proxy-import -r -i /var/cache/apt/archives it keeps telling me "no suitable backend found. What am I missing pls?
<bluefrog-10> I set up apt-proxy on breezy. using synaptic works (I have installed one package). Now I'd like to import the existing /var/cache/apt/archives into my /data/apt-proxy. When I do apt-proxy-import -r -i /var/cache/apt/archives it keeps telling me "no suitable backend found. What am I missing pls?
<B_Lizzard> eeela
<B_Lizzard> good daaay
<highvoltage> hi B_Lizzard 
<B_Lizzard> any teachers using edubuntu here?
<B_Lizzard> oh, it's THAT good...ti na peis
<Yagisan> B_Lizzard: perhaps you picked the wrong time of day ?
<B_Lizzard> probably...sorry.
<Yagisan> G'day ogra
<highvoltage> or wrong day of the week :)
<highvoltage> hi ogra
<Yagisan> well, it's 11pm Sunday here
<ogra> *yawn*
<highvoltage> almost 14pm sunday here, i don't think teachers would be here much on Sunday's at all :)
<B_Lizzard> it's 13:55 here
<highvoltage> ogra: how do you do that: ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra]  
<highvoltage> the ubuntu/member/ogra thing?
<juliux> hi ogra 
<juliux> ogra, edubunt was a hit yesterday at the linux day in dresden
<juliux> s/edubunt/edubuntu
<zakame> hi all
* smi|e is away: I'm away. Out and About. I'll be back later. If you need assistance, please check http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ... Thank You.
<zakame> ph
<mhz> hi ther
<mhz> hi there
<strusberg> mhz:Hi
<juliux> hi mhz_housestuff 
<bluefrog-10> I set up apt-proxy on breezy. using synaptic works (I have installed one package). Now I'd like to import the existing /var/cache/apt/archives into my /data/apt-proxy. When I do apt-proxy-import -r -i /var/cache/apt/archives it keeps telling me "no suitable backend found. Am missing some kind of tricks with apt-move but I'm at a loss on how to do it
<jsgotangco> hey sabdfl , jammcq_ubz 
<jammcq_ubz> hey
<ajmitch_> hi
<sabdfl> hiya jsgotangco... ogra in full swing at UBZ
<jsgotangco> oh yes i was looking at the stuff written by Riddell on the wiki
<highvoltage> JaneW: what happened with that club of rome guy wanting to print edubuntu cd's?
<JaneW> highvoltage: he has made DVDs for WSIS in Tunisia
<highvoltage> ah, cool :)
<JaneW> AFAIK he has added Ubuntu live CD and edubuntu, and 3 ubuntu install files too plus some brochures and marketing info pdfs etc...
<highvoltage> i'd love to put info about that on the edubuntu site, and pictures, if any.
<JaneW> I'll ask claire to send a few to us after WSIS so we can see exactly what's there etc
<jsgotangco> hey JaneW 
<JaneW> hey jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> JaneW: how's ubuntu-love?
<JaneW> highvoltage: great (but I feel awful - laaaate night last night) ;)
<highvoltage> how's the cold?
<JaneW> highvoltage: still lingering, but much better thanks
<sabdfl> JaneW: you are not alone
<jsgotangco> it'll be hell for me if i was there for sure (jetlag and cold weather)
<highvoltage> hi sabdfl 
<sabdfl> hiya
<ogra> sabdfl, but you look quite fresh actually :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: how was your talk?
<ogra> hmm, felt so/so ....
<highvoltage> sabdfl: as soon as launchpad is up, i'm going to post my first bounty. then i'll be a small step closer to being like sabdfl :)
<ogra> id like to fave been less timid... but i'm working on it... i'm not very used to hold talks ...
<jsgotangco> bounty for?
<highvoltage> i want to put out a bounty for a change to gnome-panel
<JaneW> sabdfl: heh
<highvoltage> it bothers me that i can change the background colour, or make it transparent, but i can't change the foreground font colour.
<JaneW> highvoltage: lp is up now.
<juliux> ogra, hi    on off our professor in dresden will test edubuntu on his server
<highvoltage> so i'm going to post a bounty for it :)
<ogra> yay
<juliux> ogra, he needs a terminal server
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: what kind of change?
<ogra> juliux, i have several other requests from germany too... from some "Volkshochschulen"
<juliux> ogra, is it possible to run edubuntu on sparc ?
<juliux> ogra, cool
<ogra> juliux, ping fabbione please, i know he built edubuntu packages, but i think the ltsp isnt ready for it yet
<juliux> ogra, ok
<JaneW> highvoltage: how's the edubuntu art team formation going, have you had much interest and/or actual help yet?
<ogra> siretart is here, i'll talk to im about sparc support for ltsp :)
<ogra> *him
<jsgotangco> i actually have a lot in queue at art.ubuntu.com
<ogra> approve it then :)
<jsgotangco> i just looked a few minutes ago :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: there's lots of interest. i was just thinking of creating the team in launchpad as well.
<JaneW> highvoltage: ditto, that's why I asked ;)
<highvoltage> my first bounty: https://launchpad.net/bounties/gnome-panel-font-colour
<highvoltage> it's small, but i think it's a good start.
<JaneW> jsgotangco: did you get admin rights on art.u.c?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<JaneW> jsgotangco: cool
<jsgotangco> im looking at the queue now
* JaneW will LOL if edubuntu mustard ends up with the highest number of votes in the end ;)
<JaneW> and ogra will be mad :)
<ogra> heh
* ajmitch_ will have to remember to vote :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: i find the interface strange though, is this made from scratch>
<strusberg> Hi, The Latinux team are working in a Metainstaller project (CUIAMA).
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes I thinki hno73 did it all by himself...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: he knows it needs work...
<strusberg> more information about CUAIMA in our PyCon 2006 proposal 
<juliux> ogra, siretart says that ltsp on sparc should possible
<jsgotangco> JaneW: I'll give him feedback then :)
<strusberg> http://www.python.org.ve/CuaimaPyCon
<jsgotangco> the approval process needs work
<JaneW> jsgotangco: he has a feedback page, I'll look for it....
<ogra> juliux, sure, we just need to write it ;) and i wont have time/hardware to care for sparc
<juliux> ogra, hehe i also have no sparc
<strusberg> now, we are looking for somebody to make the Edubuntu stage for CUAIMA.
<highvoltage> pggg. i keep using wiki markup in launchpad.
<jsgotangco> JaneW: it's alright, i work with henrik on accessibility at the moment i'll send him an email later
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I can't rem where it is now... 
<JaneW> jsgotangco: right, I saw the no hands e-mail challenge ;)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: I was thinking of a mix of accessibility and edubuntu...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: yes there may be quite a demand for that...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: education environments for disabled (is it allowed to say that or is there a better word?) children
<jsgotangco> JaneW: the proper term would be accessibility in educational computing environments
<ogra> JaneW, handicapped :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW: http://www.flickr.com/photos/magicfab/57562207/
<JaneW> cringe!
<jsgotangco> who is the woman in white?
<JaneW> marilize
<JaneW> Miss Shipit
<jsgotangco> ahhh so that's marilize
<JaneW> nod
<highvoltage> JaneW: comments? https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-artwork
<highvoltage> JaneW: nice edubuntu sticker
<highvoltage> i mean, nice Ubuntu sticker :)
<JaneW> nice emblem ;)
<JaneW> highvoltage: I'll bring one back for you
<highvoltage> :)
<JaneW> highvoltage: Hilton only gets one when I get my GEEK Freedom League t-shirt ;)
<highvoltage> mhuhahahahaha!
<JaneW> heh
<jsgotangco> wow nice emblem
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i will join :) (as admin/approver for art.ubuntu.com)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: thank you :)
<highvoltage> 16x16 doesn't give you much to work with
<ogra> highvoltage, can you somehow interconnect it to the edubuntu team ?
<jsgotangco> lol
<jsgotangco> ogra: make it a member of edubuntu?
<ogra> is that possible ? 
<highvoltage> ogra: yes, i think you need to add it as a member
<jsgotangco> but that makes edubuntu-artwork members automatic ubuntu members afaik
<jsgotangco> s/ubuntu/edubuntu
<highvoltage> it's at "Edit Members" in the menu on the right
<ogra> thats fine
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: i think that would make sense.
<yvesC> Running aclocal-1.7...
<yvesC> aclocal: configure.in: 62: macro `AM_PATH_SDL' not found in library
<yvesC> sorry
<highvoltage> you can get a general idea of how many people are working on edubuntu from the top level page, and then click on the team pages to see who's interested in which area.
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: edubuntu-art is an open team though...
<ogra> oh, ok...
<ogra> then its probably better to just put a link to the edubuntu team there
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: do you think i should make it a moderated team?
<highvoltage> i couldn't really think of a reason it should be moderated.
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: ok, i see what you mean, i'll make it moderated.
<ogra> highvoltage, why ? 
<ogra> its fine for an artwork team to be open
<ogra> you can always throw our people as admin
<ogra> *out
<highvoltage> true.
<highvoltage> i'm leaving it open then. jsgotangco: as ogra said, we can always kick someone if they misbehave
<jsgotangco> yep
<jsgotangco> its ok
<ogra> just make a link to edubuntu "if you want a member of the edubuntu/edubuntu development team, klick here" ...
<highvoltage> ogra: i don't think i'm understanding you?
<highvoltage> oh, contact details?
<ogra> yes, a link to https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu/+join
<ogra> to encourage eople to join the edubuntu team too
<highvoltage> ok
<bluefrog-10> I need someone who installed apt-proxy on Breezy and successfully imported its /var/cache/apt/archives pls
<highvoltage> bluefrog-10: after your question this afternoon, i tried it too, i get the same error, no suitable back-end found.
<JaneW> http://www.flickr.com/groups/36521969913@N01/  <- scary!
<highvoltage> then again, this was the first time i installed apt-proxy, we might be making the same mistakes.
<bluefrog-10> highvoltage, i think i know why
<bluefrog-10> but as am no programmer or dev am not sure
<highvoltage> JaneW: where are you?
<bluefrog-10> there is no tree in /var/cache/archives, just plain .deb
<JaneW> highvoltage: downstairs ball room, in Holiday In Select, Montreal, Canada, Earth, Solar System etc
<highvoltage> JaneW: no, i mean, where's your photo in that gallery? :)
<ajmitch_> listening to jdub, probably :)
<mhz> re
<mhz> any news for edubuntu from Montreal?
<mhz> ogra: Juan Carlos Inostroza is the #1 candidate to sign my key ID
<mhz> I hope we'll meet this week
<jsgotangco> oh he just spoke about edubuntu...
<mhz> JaneW: any news regarding funds? Could we use the funds to ship only 200 CD's per counry (this 1st time) and use some of the moeny to get T-Shirts and mugs?
<mhz> jsgotangco: ok, i'll try to red back logs
<mhz> red =read
<JaneW> highvoltage: OMG NO!
<mhz> JaneW: Could we have one you (edubuntu core team) guys cming to Chile for the Edubuntu Chilean Tour (we're trying to get funds to do it in December b4 christmas)
<mhz> The second event should take place in February (after 15th)
<JaneW> mhz: just listening to a talk atm...
<mhz> talk?
<mhz> ohhh, you're in a talk?
<mhz> sorry
<highvoltage> JaneW: i'm going to send an invite to the ubuntu-art mailing list to join edubuntu-art on launchpad
<highvoltage> JaneW: and also to edubuntu-devel to join edubuntu-art and edubuntu-www
<jsgotangco> mhz: i'd love to go to chile anytime heh
<mhz> cool
<mhz> unfortunately, we're still in the process of getting funds to do it. Remember Tecnocimiento is a group of volunteers for IT on Edu. who believe we gan make some money out of it but whose motivation is to solve current education needs here.
<mhz> gan = can
<jsgotangco> heh
<sven-tek> ogra, hi - iam happy you want to join out event in essen. whats your email?
<sven-tek> our
* mhz sends some strawberry dessert for those at the Talk (JaneW, ogra, etc)
<mhz> jsgotangco: have you ever tried 'ghemical'??
<mhz> jsgotangco: have you ever tried 'exelearning'??
<jsgotangco> mmm?
<highvoltage> yummy
<jsgotangco> no
<mhz> the latter helps you create moodle material and sync it afterwards
<mhz> highvoltage: you in montreal too?
<mhz> so far, after 2 Edubuntu talks, 1 teacher and 2 students have asked me to include ghemical in next release
<highvoltage> mhz: no. i wish i was though.
<jsgotangco> well you can make a MainInclusionReport for it 
* highvoltage apt-get's ghemical
<jsgotangco> Description: A GNOME molecular modelling environment
<jsgotangco>  Ghemical is a computational chemistry software package written in C++.
<jsgotangco>  It has a graphical user interface and it supports both quantum-
<jsgotangco>  mechanics (semi-empirical) models and molecular mechanics models.
<jsgotangco>  Geometry optimization, molecular dynamics and a large set of
<jsgotangco>  visualization tools using OpenGL are currently available.
<jsgotangco> visualization...interesting...
<mhz> jsgotangco: i already installed it but I am too ignorant to clearly understand ho to use it
<mhz> :D
<jsgotangco> well clearly its an advanced chemistry app
<jsgotangco> its no katomic
<jsgotangco> heheh
<pitux> will be think include packages for interactive geometry how to: drgeo, geogebra
<mhz> ya, but only using the first icon on the left (pencil) and drawing with the mouse it showed very nice line which I could turn it in 3D
<pitux> kig is more basic
<mhz> pitux: I agree
<jsgotangco> brb
<mhz> jsgotangco: pitux is one of the students (to become math teacher) who has been working a chilean project called Free Maths na is now testing edubuntu
<mhz> pitux: ya tenia instalado the language support me habis mencionado
<mhz> solo que no habia iniciado KDE y especificado que lo usara :)
<mhz> tonto yo!
<pitux> mhz kstars is in spanish in my computer with language package
<mhz> pitux: habias usado ghemical?
<mhz> exactly
<mhz> ese es mi punto
<pitux> no
<mhz> yo no habia iniciado KDE noi habia seteado el lenguaje x defecto
<pitux> ah
<mhz> y como por omision uso Ingles al instalar todos mis sistemas, castellano no habia sido seteado en KDE pero si en GNOME pues desde ahi habia instalado el soporte ES
<pitux> ah ok
<mhz> ahora, solo la calculadora funciona en ingles
<pitux> lo que yo le eche de menos a edubuntu
<mhz> si?
<highvoltage> non comprehende
<pitux> es un menu mejor clasificado
<mhz> highvoltage: oh, sorry.
<mhz> highvoltage: does it boher you?
<mhz> boher = bother
<highvoltage> mhz: no :)
<mhz> thx
<pitux> look pequelin the distro for education based in debian for latinoamerica
<mhz> I trie pequelin once
<pitux> the menu is excellent 
<mhz> or twice, very nice distro for kids
<mhz> ohh, do they use GNOME, peuq
<mhz> ohh, do they use GNOME, pitux
<mhz> ?
<pitux> menu for aplications for students of primary and secundary, menu for teachers
<pitux> pequelin use gnome
<mhz> pitux: so, you mean we need a 'categorized' menu?
<mhz> if that's so, we all agre
<pitux> in spanish please 
<mhz> i am sure. the 2006 april version will include many improvements.
<pitux> ok
<mhz> pitux: creo que todos estamos de acuerdo en que un menu x categorias seria mas util
<pitux> ahhhhh cool
<mhz> highvoltage: do you recall how long did 5.10 (edubuntu part) take to be ready for release?
<highvoltage> mhz: what do you mean?
<highvoltage> how long it took to make edubuntu?
<mhz> yes
<highvoltage> matt did the ltsp part, ogra did the rest.
<highvoltage> i think it took them ~6 months
<mhz> highvoltage: sorry, too many days speaking and writing 90% spanish :)
<highvoltage> it was a lot of work, being the first release.
<pitux> voy y vuelvo
<mhz> pitux: ok
<mhz> pitux: usas Xchat?
<pitux> yeah
<highvoltage> that, and the ubuntu work that was done the year before, and the 10 years of debian before that, and the gnu work that started a few decades ago...
<highvoltage> if you add it together, edubuntu took a few decades to make :)
<mhz> pitux: brb = vuelvo en seguida
<highvoltage> mhz: it's ok. i want to learn spanish :)
<mhz> pitux: /nick pitux_brb te dara un nick "autoexplicativo" :)
<strusberg> mhz, pitux: Maybe we can open edubuntu-es channel in Freenode. What do you think about this?
<mhz> strusberg: yes, we have not had that yet because we need more edubuntu latin people. However, i'm in the process of becoming ubuntu memeber.
<mhz> strusberg: the idea is we endup having an officialy recognized channel and not the unofficial edubuntu-la channel :)
<strusberg> mhz: Perfect!. I can help you in Venezuela
<mhz> cool!
<pitux> welcome
<pitux> strusberg
<mhz> strusberg: do you know of any other spanish peakers here?
<pitux> i want learn english
<mhz> speaker
<mhz> pitux: so you should definately stay here
<mhz> or stikc around
<mhz> stick
<mhz> highvoltage: thx for understanding
<mhz> and supporting
<strusberg> mhz: Sure!. I know many spanish spekars people that use Ubuntu
<highvoltage> i think i'll join ubuntu-es for a while, maybe i'll pick something up <g>
<mhz> strusberg: but Edubuntu?
<strusberg> mhz: In fact I am conference coordinator for the III world forum of Free Technologies this year in Venezuela
<strusberg> mhz: Sure! Edubuntu too!
<mhz> strusberg: cool! I am organizing the Edubuntu Chilena Tour here.
<mhz> Chilean
<strusberg> Yes. I see in the log of this irc.
<mhz> strusberg: and pitux is one of the leaders of www.matematicaslibre.cl
<mhz> strusberg: so maybe we could work lot closer
<mhz> strusberg: please visit www.tecnocimiento.cl and tell me what you think about the projects we are trying to keep going
<strusberg> mhz: Of course. Do you have free time on Nov 23th - 26th?
<mhz> sure! free technologies is what i work for (mon-sunday)
<strusberg> pitux: Same question for you.
<mhz> :-p
<pitux> mmmmmm
<pitux> november 23th pearl jam arrive to Chile
<mhz> lol!
<mhz> strusberg: i am fan of good music but Free as in freedom TIC-Edu is much more important :D
<pitux> but the ticket is buy 
<strusberg> mhz: Yes.Please visit www.tecnologialibre.org
* mhz visiting
<mhz> pitux: your choice
<mhz> :)
<pitux> travel to venezuela
<strusberg> mhz,pitux: Guaoo!!. We are walking the same route!
<pitux> excellent strusberg
<strusberg> I am educator, teaching in Simon Bolivar University and ISEIT (www.iseit.com.ve)
<mhz> educool
<pitux> cool
<strusberg> mhz: And I work with Python too!, for example I have one entry level prog course in Python
<pitux> ahhhh cool i use python for programming numerical methods
<mhz> python rock!
<mhz> python rocks!
<strusberg> Yes!, Python rocks!
<strusberg> :-)
<strusberg> We can support edubuntu project.
<mhz> highvoltage: i would say edubuntu was done in less than 6 months
<strusberg> For example we have one MetaInstaller (now working in Ubuntu)
<mhz> we?what you mean?
<strusberg> mhz,pitux: You, us, latinux team ;-)
<pitux> cool
<strusberg> mhz: Visit cuaima.latinux.org
<pitux> to work now
<mhz> oooh, yes!
<highvoltage> mhz: yes, i would agree with you there. it depends how you look at it.
<mhz> hehehe
<strusberg> count me. 
<mhz> strusberg: ?
<mhz> strusberg: that meta installer looks very useful
<mhz> esp. for non geeks
<strusberg> Exactly
<mhz> however, it seems to me that APT and TFTPboot would do the trick in a lot less beautiful way, though
<mhz> anyways, i'm still reaqding about it
<highvoltage> which meta-installer?
<mhz>  highvoltage cuaima.latinux.org
<strusberg> highvoltage: CUAIMA (cuaima.latinux.org)
<highvoltage> gracas
<strusberg> English info about CUAIMA in http://www.python.org.ve/CuaimaPyCon
<mhz> strusberg: track is very useful
<mhz> :)
<strusberg> mhz: Yehh
<strusberg> Mhz: I love trac.
<mhz> however i try to use Moin for 99% of mi stuff
<highvoltage> mhz: how does it work? does it tar up your distro and untar it again at another end and re-installs grub?
<strusberg> Mhz: Yes my team use MoinMoin for the Venezuelan Python website
<mhz> highvoltage: strusberg is the man to tell you about cuaima
<mhz> highvoltage: some screenshot summary http://www2.latinux.org/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=8
<highvoltage> i thought of starting a cgi installer too once.
<mhz> once, only?
<highvoltage> here's one of the half-completed xul sheets i was thinking of using: http://jonathancarter.ossn.co.za/projects/tust/opts.xul
<strusberg> highvoltage: Join to our team
<highvoltage> mhz: no, i'm lying, probably more than that ;)
<mhz> hehehe, i bet
<highvoltage> strusberg: in all honesty, i'd love to, but i am so overcommitted at this stage you wouldn't believe it
<highvoltage> strusberg: where's your mailing lists? i'll join it and follow what's going on, it might even be a good place to practice spanish
<mhz> highvoltage: nice xul
<strusberg> highvoltage: No problem. Your comments are welcome any time.
<highvoltage> if i find somewhere where i can contribute. this december i'm taking leave so i'll have some time to poke around at things.
<strusberg> Sure!. Now is in pyve@python.org.ve.
<highvoltage> is that the mailinst list address?
<strusberg> highvoltage: Yes.
<mhz> strusberg: do you use xchat?
<highvoltage> i sent an email there, so it will probably send me an email back with some help.
<strusberg> mhz: I have your e-mail from your website. I am sending a e-mail this night about the conference
<mhz> oh, k
<mhz> thx
<strusberg> Now, i am using konversation. But I prefer xchat
<highvoltage> xchat and irssi are my favourite. both of them work just the way i expect them to.
<mhz> indeed
<strusberg> highvoltage: We use Mailman please, visit http://python.org.ve/mailman/listinfo/
<mhz> however before i learn more command line apps. I would still prefer to get proficiency in Emacs :D
<strusberg> mhz: Upps. I prefer vi .
<highvoltage> all you need to know is vim :)
<highvoltage> strusberg: ^5
<mhz> strusberg: you said you use Moin. Well, i am the transaltor of Moin es.po file. so if you have complains please let me know so i can correct misinterpretations
* mhz uses apps in english 90% of the time
<mhz> strusberg: sure vi / vim is good
<highvoltage> i use apps in english 100% of the time. using software in Afrikaans just confuses me :P
<mhz> however, emacs is more than an editor...it's a challenge
<mhz> :D
<mhz> highvoltage: actually, last talk of edubuntu, i was so lost because i was demoing in spanish :D
<strusberg> :D
<highvoltage> yeah. i do all my talks in english, otherwise i get stuck on what the proper word is for all the terms in my own language.
<mhz> guys, i gotta do some laundry and dish-washing, otherwise, my wife will kick my chilean butt (as i work as 'volunteer' most of the weekdays, i make much less money than her, so I must take care of the boring house stuff)
<arkan0x> mhz probaste la resolucion de la vga externa >?
<mhz> arkan0x: no aun
<mhz> cual vga externa, a proposito?
<strusberg> mhz: In Venezuela that is the name for CUAIMA!
<arkan0x> mhz, tb podrias hacer resolucion 1024x768 virtual
<arkan0x> mhz, la vga del laptop , externa
<mhz> arkan0x: nop
<mhz> strusberg: what you mean?
<strusberg> CUAIMA is a joke name for our wife or girlfriend
<mhz> lol
<mhz> heheheehhehe
<mhz> .oO(estos venezolanos estan "majaretas" :D  )
<strusberg> CUAIMA is a very dangerous sneak here
<mhz> that's why it sounded so familiar
<mhz> arkan0x: virtual?
<strusberg> mhz: sneak=snake
<strusberg> My CUIAMA ;-), call me to help her with the lunch...
<arkan0x> sip , osea resolucion a 1024x768 , pero tu mueves el mouse y la pantalla se mueve para lograr esa resolucion
<pitux> cool arkan0x
<arkan0x> wuena pitux !
<pitux> hello
<highvoltage> edoo: goodnight
<edoo> goodnight, highvoltage. I'll keep an eye out for the MS spies while you sleep.
<highvoltage> goodnight, #edubuntu.
<JaneW> night
<JaneW> mhz: I think it's been finally decided to not press edubuntu CDs right now... the expense is quite high for the small volumes we are looking at, and the value is debatable
<JaneW> we have decided to rather wait till edubuntu 6.04 for this
<juliux> JaneW, it is possible to get support for burning them ourselfe on fairs?
<JaneW> ogra may have someone who will press for around 1Euro, plus P&P, tis still needs to be approved and arranged though...
<JaneW> mhz: the conf has just started today, and today is the 'love-day' so no specs are defined yet...
<JaneW> juliux: we have not been given access to ANY funds to date, but as edubuntu gorws and gets more attention I am sure we can justify asking for some, right now I doubt we'll get much support to be honest... ogra: what do you think?
<juliux> JaneW, are there cdcover images ? or a little flyer who we can print?
<juliux> JaneW, we plan to buy a cd/dvd burner in germany which burns logos like this http://www.iso4you.de/infos/ls-muster1-gr.jpg on the cd/dvds
<pitux> bye friends
<juliux> bye pitux 
<ogra> juliux, its on the wiki
<ogra> (the cover etc)
<juliux> ogra, but you can use it with slimcases
<juliux> ogra, i have teste it
<juliux> ogra, an slimcase are very cheap
<juliux> a blank cd in a slimcase only cost 40cent
<ogra> yup...
<ogra> sorry, have a edubuntu/ltsp presentation now, have to reboot...
<juliux> and you can buy them in every supermarket
<juliux> ogra, ok have fun
<JaneW> juliux: mhz was designing packaging...http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCdAndSlip
<JaneW> juliux: I can e-mail you a flyer, what's your address?
<JaneW> argh my wi-fi link here is very tenuous...
<juliux> juliux@ubunut-de.org
<JaneW> argh my wi-fi link here is very tenuous...
<juliux> juliux@ubuntu-de.org
<juliux> sorry
<JaneW> ok will send to you now...
<juliux> thxs
<juliux> i also have orderd conferen pakages but i didn't get any answer
<juliux> is this normal? sorry that i ask
<JaneW> I am in a talk about that now...
<JaneW> what address did you send to?
<JaneW> I think there is a huge demand for this kind of thing
<JaneW> and the process is only just getting organised now
<juliux> i send it at info@shipit.ubuntu.com
<juliux> i send it on 19  oct
<JaneW> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences
<JaneW> juliux: try again, it mught be better now that we have a dedicated shipit administrator (and a new system)
<juliux> JaneW, ok i will do
<juliux> JaneW, done
<bdoin> I have a contrib proposal for translating gcompris in afrikaan but can't find the locale code
<JaneW> bdoin: in rosetta?
<JaneW> no, I guess not... it's not in rosetta yet is it?
<bdoin> no specificaly but I also been contacted to include gcompris in rosetta. I don't know yet if it's good for gcompris to be in rosetta and in gnome. not sure I can manage that
<bdoin> found it, it's af for afrikaan
<bluefrog-10> who has installed breezy directly from hard disk and could give me help, pls?
<bluefrog-10> solved problem. not documented is the fact that you need a special kernel to boot from HDD, apparently this kernel is not on the downloadable cd
#edubuntu 2005-11-05
<deang> is Zope2.8 possible on Edubuntu?  I though I had opened up the `verses but I'm not seeing them in a Synaptic search for Zope.  Only Zope3..
<deang> I resolved my Zope issue by refreshing my sources.
<deang> I have this re-accuring problem with the Backports:  http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3853
<paolob> Hi guys! I've just installed edubuntu on my ltsp server, and I'm trying to boot a client. All is ok, with the nic, but when booting the client's linux, the client fails "calculating modules dependencies": it says: "FATAL: could not open /lib/modules/2.6.12-9-386/modules.dep.temp for writing: Read-only file system". Any idea?
<mhz> hey
<mhz> arkan0x: tienes el mail de JCI?
<arkan0x> mhz, este parece ke usa
<mhz> ok, thx
<arkan0x> mhz, algun link de instalacion de moin ?? xD
<mhz> sip
<arkan0x> kiero instalar en el tarro este , pa acostumbrarme
<mhz> arkan0x: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MauricioHernandez/HowToSurviveMigration#head-5cf877f6852ceb38e09d83fb81cb75bb9be72254
<mhz> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnInstalling/BasicInstallation
<mhz> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnInstalling/WikiInstanceCreation
<mhz> de todos modos recomiendo que antes ... apt-get install pythin-dev
<mhz> de todos modos recomiendo que antes ... apt-get install python-dev
* P3L|C4N0 brb
<juliux> morning
<highvoltage> JaneW: google for "incompetent idiot" :)
<highvoltage> JaneW: do we normally have agendas for the wednesday meetings?
<paolob> Hi guys! I successfully installed edubuntu. When installing the first client, all is ok, the kernel boots, but when running system services, it fails when "calculating modules dependencies": "FATAL: could not
<paolob> open /lib/modules/2.6.12-9-386/modules.dep.temp for writing: Read-only
<paolob> file system". Any suggestion? thank you!
<bluefrog-10> with what account do u log in?
<bluefrog-10> from the client?
<bluefrog-10> paolob, still around?
<zakame> hi all
<juliux> hi zakame 
<paolob> bluefrog-10, the client is logging in, no user account
<paolob> bluefrog-10, the client uses etherboot
<zakame> wazup here?
<paolob> Hi guys! I keep having problems with edubuntu y a thin client. The client boots the kernel, fails starting some service (for example "calculating modules dependencies) because of a "Read-only file system", and when it presents the graphical login screen, it doesn't log in: Any user/password I put, it reiniciate gdm. Any hint? Thank you!
<jelkner> is there anyone here who could help with a python bug?
<jelkner> my lesson today bombed because idle wouldn't start
<jelkner> it is all my fault, i didn't test it first
<jelkner> it works on my ubuntu systems, but on our edubuntu server, it won't start
<jelkner> i just submitted a bug report: 18714
<jelkner> but i'm leaving for UBZ tomorrow and my students need to be able to work while i'm away
<jelkner> help!
<jelkner> here is the problem
<jelkner> jelkner@edubuntu:~$ idle
<jelkner> Traceback (most recent call last):
<jelkner>   File "/usr/bin/idle", line 5, in ?
<jelkner>     main()
<jelkner>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/idlelib/PyShell.py", line 1350, in main
<jelkner>     root = Tk(className="Idle")
<jelkner>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1569, in __init__
<jelkner>     self.tk = _tkinter.create(screenName, baseName, className, interactive, wantobjects, useTk, sync, use)
<jelkner> _tkinter.TclError: this isn't a Tk applicationunknown color name "Black"
<jelkner> ogra: hi oliver
<jelkner> i've got a minor emergency
<jelkner> do you have a minute?
<ogra> morning
<ogra> jelkner, after marks opening
<jelkner> thanks
<jelkner> don't want to interfere with that
<Yagisan> paolob: On the server try running ltsp-update-sshkeys the reboot the client and try again
<zakame> late evening ogra :D
<Zaheer> afternoon everyone :)
<Zaheer> right so i've finally installed a physical machine with edubuntu 5.10 hip hip
<Zaheer> although im having a few problems... 1. postgres, what is the default admin username and password to create more users and db?
<Zaheer> 2. How do i install .debs (ubuntu files not debian) ?
<Yagisan> Zaheer: 2. Use synaptic or aptitude on the server (synaptic is in a menu, you'd need to run aptitude from a terminal)
<paolob> Yagisan, thank you! let me try!
<paolob> Yagisan, now it does work! than you!
<paolob> Yagisan, But what about the "Read-only file system" error? Aren't they perjudicial?
<Zaheer> the last time i checked synaptic didnt have any facilities for openening single debs... i had to run dkpg -i [filename.deb]  and even that didn't always work...i'll give it a try
<jsgotangco> well maybe your deb has some dependencies
<Zaheer> yes they did, and i had to install them in order of the deps.... 'twas loong night :D
<Yagisan> paolob: The Read Only warning isn't an error, don't worry about it, it's harmless.
<paolob> Yagisan, ok, tnx!
<jsgotangco> Zaheer: really is that really necessary, that's why aptitiude is there for you..unless you really have an application that is not in ubuntu (chaces are its there)
<Yagisan> Zaheer: what app are you installing ?
<Zaheer> nothing in particular i just DL mplayer, pgadmin and some other debs from ubuntu.packages.com i dont have Internet so i download during the day and take them home at night to install.
<Zaheer> does anyone know what the default user name and password for postgres is by any chance?
<zakame> Zaheer: just a thought, but have you checked /usr/share/doc/postgresql ?
<Zaheer> i've read through the "getting started" docs and it doesnt say anything about it over... 
<ealden> Zaheer: do a `sudo su postgres` and then `createuser foo`
<Zaheer> tried it dont work
<Zaheer> remember this was a standard edubuntu install that come with postgres..
<Zaheer> came.
<ealden> hmm
<Zaheer> i know the norm is user=postgres password= blank but it kept prompting when i entered nothing... seems it didnt like empty strings
<zakame> have you tried password `blank' ?
<Zaheer> literall?
<zakame> yeah, worth a try...
<Zaheer> when it prompts i hit 'enter'
<Zaheer> and then it just prompts again.
<Zaheer> im going to try to install pgadmin and see what happening baby my newness is whats holding me back...
<Zaheer> thanks for the comments and suggestions will try them out tonight and give some feedback 2mrw :)
<Zaheer> thanks guys/girls much appreciated! bye
<ogra> Zaheer, you have to create the user in the master table ... "sudo su postgres pgsql" should get you in the postgres console
<jelkner> ogra: oliver, are you here now?
<highvoltage> JaneW, ogra: how's UBZ today?
<highvoltage> JaneW: wb
<gr8nash2> hi all
<gr8nash2> hey im currently googling and cant seem to find the answer.. i thought i read somewhere on the site that edubutu had software to track grades.. but i cant seem to find any reference now
<gr8nash2> dont know if i imagined it or not
<highvoltage> edoo: slashdot
<edoo> highvoltage: Slashdot - Updated 2005-10-31 18:08:00 | Unblock Google Cache in China | IBM ThinkPad X41 Tablet PC Reviewed | SBC CEO: Pay up if you want to use our pipes | mTLD to enforce Web standards in .mobi
<mhz> good (Chilean) evening!
<mhz> ogra: busy?
<mhz> hmm someone with tech background around?
<crimsun> what sort of tech background?
<mhz> hey crimsun 
<crimsun> hey mhz 
<mhz> I've been contacted by someone from ubuntu-es who is trying Edubuntu
<mhz> he's had the following problems i can't explain why they happen:
<mhz> after he successfully boots clients...
<mhz> he gets: calculating modules dependencies
<mhz> that is fine
<mhz> but it takes so long until he gets:
<mhz> fail
<mhz> FATAL
<mhz> could not
<mhz> > open /lib/modules/2.6.12-9-386/modules.dep.temp for writing: Read-only
<mhz> > file system
<crimsun> does he have enough free space on / ?
* mhz taking notes 'cos he's just repeating the email he got
<crimsun> also, if the machine doesn't freeze, he should have some info in /var/log/dmesg
<mhz> hmm, ok.
<crimsun> if it's not lack of free space, perhaps his HD or IDE controller are failing
<mhz> crimsun: so you say he should check that there's room in / and read /var/log/dmesg
<crimsun> yes
<mhz> ok, thx
<crimsun> if his HD is dying, he'll have lots of errors spewed toward the end of /var/log/dmesg
<crimsun> np
<mhz> interesting
<mhz> he also gets "out of
<mhz> > memory" from getty
<mhz> crimsun: nothing to do, but have you used edubuntu with WindowMaker?
* mhz waves magnon 
* magnon waves back
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> break-dancing
<crimsun> mhz: I haven't
<mhz> crimsun: when you say 'enough /' How much would be ok? (and I truly guess you mean in the 'server' side)
<crimsun> mhz: RE: memory error, which is beginning to sound more like hardware issues, has he run memtest86+ on the machine?
<crimsun> mhz: at least 2 GB for /
<mhz> crimsun: and how long have you been testing edubuntu and under which environments or layouts? (I need fedback from testers, much feedback)
<mhz> crimsun: memory/ no idea, I'll ask
<crimsun> mhz: I've only downloaded the iso, the hardware is tied up in bureaucracy atm
<mhz> .oO(usually, people do not provide as much info as possible when they have trouble and ask for help. Sorry)
<mhz> crimsun: hehehe, ok
<mhz> strusberg: aloha!
<crimsun> mhz: I'm offline for a bit, need to go teach class
<mhz> may the patience be with you
<mhz> strusberg: any nwas about the congress?
<neurogeek> mhz, Hello, Im currently working with Strusberg.. Nice to meet you
<neurogeek> mhz, he is not right here, he is giving classes.. but he told me that you were talking about cuaima the other day
<luis__> hey, all, sorry to ask what might be an obvious question, but are you all bundling a CMS with edubuntu? 
<mhz> re
<strusberg> mhz:Hi
<mhz> alojamiento, strusberg 
<mhz> que significa la 'R' en tu nombre?
<strusberg> mhz: Ricardo
<mhz> oh
<mhz> y tu segundo nombre, por casualidad, empieza con M?
<strusberg> mhz: Nop
<mhz> boooh
<strusberg> mhz: Ufff RMS???
<mhz> for a moment I though of the coincidence if your initials were RMS :D
<mhz> exactly
<mhz> strusberg: BTW, my chilean initial are MHZ but my english ones should be MRH
<mhz> do you in Venezuela use latin method or english one?
<strusberg> mhz: for what?
<mhz> for initials
<strusberg> mhz: Latin method.
<mhz> ok
<strusberg> mhz: neurogeek is a Cuaima Team member
<strusberg> mhz: In fact, he is the tech leader for that project.
<mhz> now, back to edubuntu business, strusberg are you currently testing edubuntu? If so, could you provide a brief summary of your experience with it and your comments, as long as stating the hw and network you've used it with?
<mhz> strusberg: cuaima/ then if you seriously think we should include it or cnsider it for edubuntu, i'd suggest you send an email to the ML
<neurogeek> mhz, hello again.. strusberg went teaching. He installed Edubuntu, but hasn't had the time to fully test it.. 
<mhz> neurogeek: nice to talk to you and welcome to the project :)
<strusberg> mhz: I am going to teach a mailman course lab in this moment. I will send the e-mail to ML.
<mhz> strusberg: may the patience be with you
<mhz> neurogeek: and have you tested it?
<neurogeek> mhz, Well.. we are seriously considering contributing  to Edubuntu with Cuaima
<mhz> neurogeek: educool
<mhz> IMHO it is a very interesting candidate
<neurogeek> mhz, IMHO i think the debian-installer is way to old fashioned for a distro like Ubuntu
<mhz> yes and no
<neurogeek> mhz, no.. i haven't tried yet.. i will soon.. I've tried Ubuntu and Kubuntu though.. they are very good!
<neurogeek> mhz, why??
<mhz> debian-installer may be very good for olde machine
<mhz> older machines :)
<neurogeek> mhz, yes, i agree
<mhz> usually, all GUI's installers I have tried, they all take toooo long to do the job
<mhz> IMHO, we should be able to provide 2 wasy
<mhz> ways
<mhz> a) light installer (usually command line or similar)
<mhz> b) gui
<neurogeek> but ive seen too many machines that get stuck with d-i.. its a shame 
<mhz> oh, yes
<neurogeek> mhz, i strongly agree with you
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> we 2 agree on same point
<mhz> s
<mhz> debian-installer may not be the best
<mhz> so we should provide a very light and fast installer
<mhz> however, I doubt we could change d-i so far
<mhz> but I see no problem (can't imagine which) having a second option
<mhz> like cuaima
<neurogeek> mhz, yes.. and we are willingly developing Cuaima to fit those needs.. 
<mhz> neurogeek: so, you should definately talk to ogra (oliver)
<mhz> and propose your views on the edubuntu ml
<neurogeek> and yes.. ive been asking around ubuntu channels and odds are not to good for changing d-i any time soon
<mhz> exactly
<mhz> however,
<neurogeek> mhz, I will..
<mhz> from my humble edubuntu POV, I would suggest this idea for near future:
<mhz> a) we have a base installation (edubuntu stuff)
* enyc may well goto daycare-nursery where thef using edubuntu-box tomorrow......
<mhz> b) we have already prepackaged set of tools and apps.  for each subject (science, math, language, etc)
<mhz> so teachers or institutions use what they need
<mhz> so during install time, you can choose to add a whole set of tools
<luis__> enyc: take pictures!
<neurogeek> thats the way it should be.. we can easily adapt cuaima to do that
<enyc> luis__: hmm no camera etc. error
<luis__> doh.
<luis__> steal one! ;)
<enyc> lol they've only had it a week!
<luis__> see, you have to take the pictures now, before they change their minds ;)
<neurogeek> a question.. Edubuntu gets always installed the same way.. right?? same packages everytime?
<enyc> and im out nearby soldering/heatshrinking a phone cable lol
<mhz> neurogeek: yes and no :)
<mhz> edubuntu is ubuntu + edu app.s
<neurogeek> :) how is that??
<neurogeek> Ok
<mhz> so, you can always choose diff options at install time
<mhz> however, if you want LTSP
<neurogeek> Ok.. but is currently like that??
<mhz> yes, you have to press enter for default way
<mhz> yes
<mhz> and actually, you can install edubuntu from any U/K/X/buntu previously installed
<mhz> just apt-get install edubuntu-server edubuntu-desktop and that's it
<mhz> and remember to edit /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf INSTEAD of /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf
<neurogeek> Ah! ok.. 
<neurogeek> mhz, Well.. very nice meeting you.. we'll be in touch and I will take into account all you have said.. thanks!
<neurogeek> mhz, now.. i have to go, but we'll talk later
#edubuntu 2005-11-06
<arkan0x> mhz_dinner, ?? tai
<mhz> arkan0x: ping
<mhz> re
<corey_> http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1010
<Yagisan> mhz: ping
<patber> hello. i have a question. can i use a 64bit as a terminal server and 32bit terminals?
<Yagisan> patber: yes - but that patch is not in the edubuntu release based on breezy
<Yagisan> patber: any reason you would like to do that ? (I run 64bit server with 32bit clients)
<patber> i would like to use an amd64 server
<patber> i'm not sure if the 32 client would boot
<Yagisan> patber: In 64bit mode, or 32bit compatibility mode ?
<patber> i'm not sure if the 32 client would boot
<patber> 32bit mode for the clients
<Yagisan> patber: In the current edubuntu setup, amd64 servers can not boot i386 (32bit) clients
<Yagisan> patber: you can run 32bit edubuntu on amd64, and boot 32bit clients
<patber> so i should use an 32bit server?
<Yagisan> patber: with 64bit edubuntu you don't get non-free things like flash in firefox eg
<patber> do you get more performance with your 64bit server?
<Yagisan> patber: In some apps yes, in others it is actually slower. I built it as 64bit, as I need 64bit software development
<patber> i see. thank you for your help.
<Yagisan> patber: I had to stuff around setting up a 32bit chroot for firefox+flash+java
<Yagisan> patber: at the moment, if you have less then 3/4GB RAM and you want your system to just work
<Yagisan> patber: I would install 32bit edubuntu on the amd64 server
<Yagisan> patber: have you used the amd64 version of ubuntu ?
<patber> yes, i would have 20 clients so the ram would be < 4gb
<patber> no, i have not used the 64bit version
<patber> i am planning for the hardware i have to use
<Yagisan> patber: It has some trouble with proprietary software (vendors don't support amd64 in 64bit mode), 
<Yagisan> patber: 32bit edubuntu runs fine on amd64 systems, faster then Intel P4 systems.
<patber> maybe a 64bit system is easier to upgarde in the future
<Yagisan> patber: biggest advantage of the 64bit system is the extra memory address space, and the extra registers
<Yagisan> patber: next release of edubuntu should support 32bit clients with 64bit server out of the box
<Yagisan> patber: I know, as I wrote the first patch to support that.
<patber> well, in the meantime i will try the 42bit edubuntu on a 64bit sytsem
<patber> well, in the meantime i will try the 32bit edubuntu on a 64bit sytsem
<Yagisan> patber: no worries, let us know how your edubuntu system turns out :)
<patber> i will do so. it will be a school in berlin
<Yagisan> patber: cool, I believe ogra (main developer) is also from germany.
<patber> thanks for your help. bye.
<Yagisan> ogra: how are the thin client bofs going ? (have they started yet ?)
<ogra> fine...
<ogra> looks like we can get the Thin Client bootup down to 30sec (from 1.5 min currently)
<ogra> i'm not really happy with the sound stuff, but we'll have to support dapper for 5 years, so we cant do the newest and gretest
<Yagisan> ogra: cool. I look forward to quicker boots
<ogra> you can look yourself btw
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/sprints/ubz/
<ogra> look for thin client
* mhz is back after breakfast
<mhz> hi there
* Yagisan doesn't see local apps anywhere
* Yagisan falls off chair in shock
<juliux> re
<Yagisan> ogra: Is it possible to reduce client memory usage ? currently the clients need more then 32mb installed to boot
<ogra> nope
<ogra> thats a requirement of the ubuntu kernel
<ogra> it needs at least 48MB
<Yagisan> ogra: what about network swap ?
<ogra> nbd ? 
<ogra> its prepared ...
<Yagisan> ogra: whatever - but have it kick in on low ram boxes
<Yagisan> ogra: we had a few bitches^W complaints about edubuntu not booting in 32mb boxes
<Yagisan> ogra: some people didn't like being told to buy more ram
<Yagisan> ogra: We should wiki that 48MB requirement in big bold letters - possibly list it in the topic too
<mhz_docing> does anyone here know how to say 'Desarrollo Sustentable'  in english?
<mhz_docing> Sustainable Development?
<highvoltage> edoo: hi
<edoo> heya, highvoltage!
<magnon> ogra: quick approval :-)
<magnon> if it was you
<ogra> magnon, ?
<magnon> ogra: launchpad
<magnon> I signed up for the edubuntu group and got approved seconds later
<ogra> magnon, oh, that was JaneW i guess ;) she always beats me to it
<juliux> ogra, hi  if you have time take a look at http://www.juliux.de/linux/edubuntuworkshop.odt 
<magnon> ogra is between bofs RIGHT now so he has ;-)
<JaneW> ogra: yes it was ;)
<JaneW> ogra: hey I do what I can :P
<highvoltage> hi JaneW 
<JaneW> hello highvoltage 
<highvoltage> feels like ages since i last talked to you
* JaneW just went outsdie in daylight for the first time since last week Tuesday... ;)
<highvoltage> geez. feeling better?
<JaneW> and now I feel guilty
<highvoltage> you 'sound' better :)
<JaneW> yes it was good to see ppl in the real world
<highvoltage> don't worry, it's also been a while for me (since i saw daylight)
<JaneW> and I finally sent a postcard back home :)
<highvoltage> hehe
<highvoltage> how's UBZ? anything exciting? i haven't been able to follow on-line.
<JaneW> yes it's going well so far I think, not as manic as UDU, more organised and focused IMO
<ogra> JaneW, you shoud start smoking... going out every hour lets the guilty feeling go away ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: how do you feel about the next edubuntu release?
<highvoltage> any ideas come up so far at this conf?
<ogra> yup, we just finished up thin client sound
<ogra> additionally we can cut down the thin client boot to a third of the time it uses now
<highvoltage> yes, booting is very schloppy atm.
<ogra> but 30sec until login sounds ok, doesnt it ?
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> i wish i could be there. next year i'm making a plan to attend the conference we're having.
<highvoltage> perhaps i should start campaigning that it should happen in .za
<JaneW> highvoltage: there's talk of that... or germany
<JaneW> I am still viaing for THAILAND!
* highvoltage votes for .za, definately
<JaneW> highvoltage: Thailand is cheap for us, and so much fin
<JaneW> fun too
<highvoltage> ok, thailand does sound cool.
<highvoltage> and next year i will make more money, so it should be ok.
<JaneW> ogra: someone... corey maybe, told me to tell you about the follwoing links LATE last night... http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1010
<JaneW> and http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=691
* highvoltage will check in a mo'
<ogra> JaneW, thats the third time he tells me....
<ogra> JaneW, and i wont tell him the third time that we cant ship gambas based software
<JaneW> ogra: sorry...
<ogra> dont worry :)
* JaneW will thwap him next time I see him ;)
<ogra> gnutu would duplicate schooltool :)
<Burgundavia> ogra, JaneW sorry, I have a bad memory
<ogra> Burgundavia, no worries ...
<JaneW> gnutu - sounds like an ubuntu derivative
<ogra> we should have gnutu available in universe, looks cool for the workstation 
<ogra> (for home usage)
<JaneW> Burgundavia: np, I just didn;t want to forget if it was smoehting we wanted
<highvoltage> what i like about schooltool is the amount of thought that went into it to do it properly.
<JaneW> lunch time yay
<Burgundavia> JaneW, yes
<ogra> LUNCH !!!!
<JaneW> !
<JaneW> bye
<highvoltage> bye!
<th1a> I'd never heard of gambas.
<th1a> But I suppose something like that had to exist, whether it is a good idea or not.
<highvoltage> gambas? what's that.
<highvoltage> edoo: google for gambas
<th1a> Apparently, free visual BASIC, more or less.
<highvoltage> ah.
<th1a> Is edoo a bot?
<th1a> Apparently so.
<Conan59> good day to all.
<Conan59> I need someone to point me to a nice start about using edubuntu with LSTP
<Conan59> I haven't understood all the details on the LSTP site enough to translate them to edubuntu
<bluefrog-10> what do u need to know?
<bluefrog-10> Conan59, what do u want to know?
<Conan59> sorry
<Conan59> Basically an easy way to start
<Conan59> What do I install?
<Conan59> where do I get it..
<Conan59> I already have the latest version of edubuntu
<Conan59> edubuntu-5.10-install-i386.iso
<Conan59> and I'm going to install it on a computer later today
<Conan59> but what do I need to configure and how do I plug the clients?
<juliux> Conan59, the clients boots via pxe or a little bootimage, you didn't have to install anything at the client
<Conan59> So I don't need the chip for the network card?
<Conan59> I can make a floppy image and run from the server?
<Conan59> I guess I need to disable my existing DHCP server, right?
<Conan59> being a linksys router I don't think it supports what I need, does it?
<juliux> yes on the edubuntu the dhcp server should run
<bluefrog-10> better if you disable it to test, just to make sure there is no interference
<juliux> and then the clients can boot via network
<bluefrog-10> install edubuntu while following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPServerSetup?highlight=%28ltsp%29
<bluefrog-10> u might have a pb to log in with your clients, if it's the case come back here and it will be solved in no time
<Conan59> pb?
<bluefrog-10> problem
<Conan59> OH thanks :D
<Conan59> Thank you very much for your help
<Conan59> that's exactly what I was looking for.
<Conan59> I'll come back as soon as I have it up and running.
<Conan59> Thanks again.. see you later!
<xDudex> Hey
<juliux> ho
<xDudex> Have any of you deployed Edubuntu yet?  If so, for what?
<xDudex> err
<xDudex> as a Terminal server... I meant =/
<bluefrog-10> xDudex, schools would be the best example
<juliux> or fair teams like the german ubuntu/edubuntu fair team
<xDudex> fair teams?
<juliux> yes we make booth at fairs
<juliux> or conferences
<xDudex> ahh, ok
<xDudex> is it possible to create a customized desktop setup and then use that as a template so-to-speak for a group of users?
<juliux> you can make it by hand
<xDudex> yeah, but say I need it to be identical for 20 users, is there a way to avoid doing it all by hand? =)
<bluefrog-10> yes certainly
<juliux> you can also write a little script
<bluefrog-10> can't tell u right now how but am pretty sure that it's possible to define several default desktops and then assign them to groups
<xDudex> ok, cool, that's helpful in my search, knowing that it is possible
<highvoltage> xDudex: you can also copy a costomised home directory to /etc/skel
<highvoltage> all new users will then have that setup
<xDudex> highvoltage, yeah, I was just reading about that on a site
<xDudex> brb
<mhz_lunch> re
<XRaxX> oh snap
<XRaxX> this is quite easy
<XRaxX> Set up one user as the model, copy its config files into /etc/skel
<XRaxX> then all new users will be set up like the model
<bluefrog-10> how would u do then to assign a skeleton to someone depending on the group he is memeber of?
<bluefrog-10> there must be a way to achieve that, no?
<XRaxX> I don't know
<XRaxX> still doing more reading on it =)
<bluefrog-10> something like create /etc/skel  /etc/skel1 and so on :)
<bluefrog-10> i need to have a look into ldap directory to see if it can be done thru it
<XRaxX> I have never used an ldap directory
<neurogeek> bluefrog-10, /etc/skel is group-independant AFAIK
<XRaxX> correct, neurogeek
<XRaxX> the question is then, is there a way to do the same thing /etc/skel does, but make it group dependant?
<neurogeek> XRaxX, unless you add script support to it.. by modifing useradd 
<neurogeek> it shouldn't be that difficult
<XRaxX> what do you mean?
<bluefrog-10> yes but then it would for users only
<bluefrog-10> u wouldn't change a group at once , would u?
<bluefrog-10> or to be clearer, change a user skel by adding him to a group
<neurogeek> I mean.. changing useradd code.. that way you can do what you want to skel.. or creating a new adduser program
<bluefrog-10> adduser yep seems better
<neurogeek> bluefrog-10, yes.. 
<bluefrog-10> am having a look at smbldap-useradd, there is an option for the skeleton there
<neurogeek> yes.. but with group support??
<bluefrog-10> -m creates home dir and copies /etc/skel -k specifies skeleton dir
<mhz> bluefrog-10: but what is exactly what you need? UserGroup have access to this application while UserGroup2 does not?
<bluefrog-10> hang on hang on one thing at a time ... :)
<neurogeek> bluefrog-10, thats the standard way useradd does it
<neurogeek> mhz, hello.. how are you??
<bluefrog-10> oh yes was checking useradd but missed it
<mhz> Mauricio Hernandez Z.
<mhz> neurogeek: has bad memory :)
<bluefrog-10> mhz, no someone was asking if possible to assign a skel to a group
<bluefrog-10> so that all members of a group have same desktop
<neurogeek> mhz, no.. jeje.. i asked about how are you doing? how are your things? jeje
<mhz> neurogeek: oohhh, my tired eyes, duh!!! 
* mhz slaps himself
<neurogeek> mhz, don't worry.. nice seeing you again
<mhz> m2
<mhz> bluefrog-10: oh, same desktop for G1 but will users in G2 still see SAME menus?
<bluefrog-10> not sure of what the guy wanted but for me it would be like this yes
<bluefrog-10> eventually having different icons on desktop as well in relation to waht they are doing
<mhz> hmm, I guess 'adduser' has some options to specify /etc/skel but I doubt this will provide a diff menu depending on Group :(
<bluefrog-10> G1 accounting has accounting icons on desktop and so on
<mhz> well, that'd be cool for schools purposes
<bluefrog-10> yes
<XRaxX> that simplifies it though because you just make a few different /etc/skel 's based on the groups you need
<XRaxX> then specifiy which to use in creation
<mhz> but I think this will be possible under Wmaker or Fluxbox desktops
<neurogeek> bluefrog-10, modifiying adduser or useradd is the only way to do that
<mhz> i doubt it under GNOME
<mhz> (maybe)
<mhz> neurogeek: but doesn't adduser offer a flag for a diff /skel ?
<bluefrog-10> ok then to make it simpler, a useradd script which asks in which group he's going to be, then we the input to define the skel?
<neurogeek> mhz, yes.. you can specify what is going to be your skel dir.. but not to make group differences between them
<XRaxX> wouldn't it just be easier to use that switch?
<mhz> neurogeek: you mean no -G flag or something?
<XRaxX> it doesn't have to be fully automated...
<neurogeek> bluefrog-10, easier.. write a script that calls useradd specifiying it what sekl dir to grab by group
<mhz> neurogeek: oooh, now i see
<bluefrog-10> yes that's what i meant (i think) in very bad english :)
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> bluefrog-10: your english is fine
<neurogeek> mhz, -m -k (skel dir)
<mhz> communication is the key
<bluefrog-10> my scripting is less :)
<XRaxX> neurogeek, yes
<mhz> bluefrog-10: my scripting is Zero
<neurogeek> :D
<bluefrog-10> so far zero is a high score for me
<mhz> hehehehe
<neurogeek> bluefrog-10, it will be easy.. you just have to wrap useradd, with the parameters you want
<mhz> bluefrog-10: IIRC, OSX had an option to do exactly what we're discussing from GUI :D
<mhz> .oO(neurogeek's right)
<neurogeek> :D
<blue-james> hum my first xchat window has gone somewhere but where exactly i don't know..;
<blue-james> am bluefrog-10
<XRaxX> haha, weird
<blue-james> could you point me to a site where i could find simple scripting example so that i can learn from live stuff?
<blue-james> am no programmer so theory is a bit above my head
<neurogeek> going to check
<blue-james> but i can make my way with real stuff
<blue-james> and then i go back to theory
<XRaxX> shell scripting?
<blue-james> sh scripts
<XRaxX> same thing =P
<blue-james> such as as for a user input and use that input afterwards
<blue-james> such as ask..
<mhz> bluefrog-10: have you ever used WebMin stuff?
<blue-james> yes
<mhz> i'd bet webmin has what you need from GUI
<XRaxX> that is more advanced than what I know, heh
<blue-james> have had a look itno their scripts already but tough
<XRaxX> maybe http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ ?
<mhz> i'd bet webmin has what you need from GUI (adding users with profiles)
<blue-james> becasue they are calling so many things, it makes me dizzy :)
<XRaxX> is webmin an ubuntu package?
<blue-james> cool will have a look into Example 4-1. Variable assignment and substitution
<blue-james> webmin yes
<blue-james> universe
<neurogeek> blue-james, you just need (as simple as i see it ) something like this http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/2004?_nevow_carryover_=1130880435.99127.0.0.10.759829862943
<XRaxX> roger that, found it
<neurogeek> Of course.. validating the existence of both $group and /etc/skel_$group
<blue-james> perfeact
<neurogeek> blue-james, its not the most elegant thing in the world.. but it'll do
<blue-james> exactly what the guy asked and exactly what i needed to start to understand how to do them ty very much
<mhz> perfect!
<neurogeek> np
<XRaxX> yeah, cool, thanks
<blue-james> elegant stuff is one thing, wroking stuff i prefer :)
<mhz> blue-james: then after, please wiki a page stating how you solved the 'problem'
<neurogeek> thats my motto on pressure times.. jaja
<blue-james> mhz, am working on samba-ldap dhcp3 bind howto
<mhz> cooool
<blue-james> have done all my tests 4 or 5. i need to write now
<blue-james> 4or5 times
<mhz> excuseme, educool!
<mhz> :)
<blue-james> i still need to explore postfix. bit hard as i was used to sendmail
<mhz> free as in freedom is harder path, but much more gratefull in the end
<blue-james> i would prefer postix as it is in breezy but if loosing too much time i will go sendmail in universe
<mhz> hmmmm, boooh
<blue-james> i mean postfix in itself, i can do but apparently i have some pb to integrate an imap server with it
<blue-james> tried courrier and cyrus, no good. i prefer dovecot anyway but i haven't started yet
<blue-james> well started but just a little
<blue-james> by no good i mean i was no good :)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> dovecot you said? I read a terrific howto
<mhz> blue-james: need a url?
<blue-james> if in conjunction with postfix yes by all means
<blue-james> otherwise yes as well anyway :)
<blue-james> but so far my dovecot pb seems to come from ldap auth.
<blue-james> didn't have those pb with K12LTSP but now that 've dumped K12 i need to understand things a bit deeper
* mhz getting the url
<mhz> re
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> blue-james: http://www.howtoforge.com/taxonomy_menu/1/4
<blue-james> cool i killed my first window, will be back.. ty
<mhz> yw
<blue-james> or maybe can i just take back my name from here without shuting don xchat?
<signifer123> so what advantages does edubuntu have for High Schools?
<bluefrog-10> less money involved in clients, maintenance...
<bluefrog-10> when i say less it's an euphemism
<bluefrog-10> understand big money saved
<bluefrog-10> money that can be used on training people
<corey_> time is another thing that may not be directly expressed as money, but certainly would be felt
<corey_> that is what edubuntu saves
<magnon> training is generally a cost, but it's a long term thing
<corey_> yes, and if you make the system as turn-key as possible, you eliminate a great deal of training
<bluefrog-10> training as in training pple how to use a computer, openoffice and so on....
<magnon> I don't think you would always need a course as of such
<bluefrog-10> training as having night courses for elderly and so on.;
<signifer123> but how about on restrictions?
<magnon> if they're not completely illiterate they'll find their way around
<signifer123> lol
<magnon> signifer123: restrictions to what users can do?
<signifer123> like keeping them from accessing certain aprts of the fs
<bluefrog-10> am not talking about the IT guy who is going to install..
<signifer123> parts*
<signifer123> for students
<magnon> well, edubuntu does or will do restrictions
<signifer123> what does it do as of now?
<magnon> ogra: answer please :-)
<magnon> I'm not sure
<bluefrog-10> what u need it to do
<magnon> but you have the basic unix separations
<bluefrog-10> define your needs
<signifer123> keep them from accessing the main aprt of the linux fs
<magnon> why would you?
<signifer123> why would they have to
<bluefrog-10> they don't have access to files system
<signifer123> if they mess something up then you have to ghost it
<magnon> to start programs and such?
<magnon> they won't have an access to write it
<magnon> only an admin would
<signifer123> just allow them to see their home dir thats it
<magnon> that's silly
<signifer123> they can't even see the other stuff
<magnon> that's a security measure that you don't need
<signifer123> i guess so...
<signifer123> does wine support netware?
<ogra> a normal user can mess up parts of the os in linux
<ogra> s/can/can't/
#edubuntu 2006-10-30
<LaserJock> cbx33!!!
<cbx33> LaserJock, !!!
<paolob> Hi guys! Is the page https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdgyReleaseNotes correct? In order to upgrade to dapper we had to rebuild the ltsp chroot. Now nothing is said about that
<paolob> has it been integrated in the apt-get dist-upgrade process?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I think perhaps it's included in the new LTSP
<LaserJock> but I'm not positive about that
<paolob> ogra, isn't here?
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> it's the middle of the night in Germany
<fregomt> I'm thinking about building a server to run Edubuntu 6.10.  I'm considering an AMD Opteron (64bit).  I would have a mix of 32bit and 64 bit thin clients. Is this a problem?  Do you do a 32bit install on the 64 bit server? 
<LaserJock> I don't think you have to
<fregomt> cool.. any problems with the 64bit version?  I've heard of some difficulties getting some things to work under 64bit, though I'm currently only running a 32bit with regular Ubuntu
<LaserJock> well, in general the issues with 64bit Ubuntu are multimedia codecs and flash
<fregomt> ahhh... so if I'm running a 32bit thin client it boots a different image than the 64 bit server... and I wouldn't have that problem I assume?
<fregomt> And for that matter if I should add a 64 bit thin client, I could have it boot the 32bit image too and avoid that problem, right?
<LaserJock> I'm really not sure but I know the client chroots can be a separate arch then the server
<fregomt> ya, I think you're right.  I guess I need to bite the bullet and try edubuntu.
<fregomt> Either that or find a good howto for adding LTSP to regular Ubuntu.
<fregomt> as I really don't care about all the education software.  (Learning is for foolz!)
<LaserJock> yeah, it's pretty easy to go either way
<fregomt> cool, thanks Laser.
<sbalneav> Evening everyone!
<sbalneav> !seen ogra
<ubotu> ogra is on IRC right now!
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: seen ogra
<edubuntugirl> ogra was last seen on #edubuntu 2 days, 10 hours, 3 minutes and 52 seconds ago, saying: we'll need something like a config file or even an lts.conf parameter that defines which apps are local apps and which are run on the server [Fri Oct 27 18:02:05 2006] 
<lguerra> hi all
<sbalneav> Hello
<lguerra> ogra, ping
<lguerra> ogra: in ubuntu-es an edubuntu user, have problems with dhcpd, inittab dont exist and dhcpd ask for this file
<sbalneav> lguerra: inittab doesn't exist?
<sbalneav> Is this a new edubuntu install?  Or an upgrade?
<lguerra> new install sbalneav 
<sbalneav> I'll join the channel, but someone will have to translate. :)
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<dibblego> can you upgrade 6.06 to 6.10 with the live or install CD?
<sbalneav> Install, I believe
<dibblego> ah thanks
<bimberi> yep, install CD only
<dibblego> righto cheers
<lguerra> sbalneav, thanks, i dont have idea what feruchi do, but all its ok for him
<sbalneav> I bet he was picking up another ltsp server.
<sbalneav> My suspicion is, he'll have problems again :)
<sbalneav> That's why I'll hang around :)
<lguerra> sbalneav, Edubuntu LTSP documentation where is?
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> I'm working on some of it now.
<sbalneav> It's on the edubuntu svn repository
<sbalneav> http://svn.binaryredneck.net/handbook
<lguerra> sbalneav, if EC considers convenient, I would be able to translate this al Spanish when this list
<sbalneav> Both a Spanish and a Portugese translation would be awesome.  We get a lot of LTSP users from South America, and all I can speak is a little French, and not very well at that :)
<lguerra> sbalneav, I continued entering to #edubuntu, and I am working with #edubuntu-is, the unico problem is that itself be not to handled svn; but I would be able to collaborate with that translation
<sbalneav> really, the doco should move to a bzr style repository.
<lguerra> doco?
<lguerra> what is that?
<sbalneav> Short for documentation
<lguerra> ohhhh
<lguerra> i read about svn for begin to translate 
<^Ghost2U> hi all!
<^Ghost2U> having probs with edgy.. 2x thin client not finding dhcp server (edubuntu default install)
<^Ghost2U> does edgy install and activate the ltsp packages like breezy, or do I need to perform additional steps?
<sbalneav> ^Ghost2U: Edubuntu should install and activate by default.
<sbalneav> Do you have 2 network cards in the server, or one?
<^Ghost2U> hi sb: only one... 
<^Ghost2U> it's not my default gateway
<sbalneav> Are there any other dhcpd servers running on your network?
<^Ghost2U> only this edubuntu box
<^Ghost2U> M$ gets ip from it, but 2x doesn't
<sbalneav> You don't have a cable or dsl router handing out dhcp addrsses?
<^Ghost2U> not on this network
<sbalneav> ok, what kind of thin clients are they? Old machines?
<^Ghost2U> not really
<^Ghost2U> p4- 2.8GB... worked with breezy setup before
<^Ghost2U> GHz
* ^Ghost2U needs caffeine
<sbalneav> ok, what's the ip address of the server?  And can you paste the dhcpd.conf file from /etc/ltsp to the pastebin
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<^Ghost2U> ok
<^Ghost2U> done
<sbalneav> What's the link?
<sbalneav> My mental telepathy's down today.
<bimberi> c'mon sbalneav, lift your game ;p
<^Ghost2U> sb: sorry... trying something
<^Ghost2U> whats the command for restarting dhcp??
<sbalneav> invoke-rc.d dhcp3-server restart
* ^Ghost2U seriously in need of coffee or jolt cola
<PurpleBlue> Hello
<^Ghost2U> sb: it was my dhcp settings for ltsp
<PurpleBlue> When I used stock Totem Moivie player, to play a standard .mp3 from web, it says I need codec.  Is this normal?
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: yes, mp3 is a patent encumbered format, and hence not installed by default in (ed)ubuntu
<bimberi> !mp3
<ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats  -  See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html  -  But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
<^Ghost2U> haleluja!!! (or something like that) They finally got local sound working on clients
<sbalneav> Yup, we did.
<sbalneav> Ogra and I will be speccing out the next step, replacing esd with pulseaudio, at mountainview
<PurpleBlue> Ubotu, thank you.  Good info!
* ^Ghost2U has been waiting a long time for this, I also noticed the local CD is displayed on the client.. not the server CD.. sweet!
* ^Ghost2U is loving this already!
<PurpleBlue> What is LTS backpors?
<^Ghost2U> sb: to all of you hard working ppl -- Thanks :D
<Amaranth> sbalneav: I'll have to be there for that one :)
<sbalneav> Thanks@
<^Ghost2U> any suggestions afa thin h/w?? (helping a broke parochial school setup a lab)
<PurpleBlue> I am just trying to figure out what repositories should/should not be enable in synaptic package manager
<^Ghost2U> (maybe broke is too strong, financially struggling)
<sbalneav> ^Ghost2U: lots of old machines will work.  Depending on where you are, there's lots of values to be had on ebay, or at local swap shops.
<sbalneav> Anything with a 200mhz processor, and 32-64 megs of memory will make a great thin client.
<^Ghost2U> sbalneav: Thanks, I'm also considering actual thin client boxes.. (a donation, my son's school)
<sbalneav> www.disklessworkstations.com
<^Ghost2U> sbalneav: not sure they're still around.. cannot connect
<PurpleBlue> Did I mess up?  sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg g streamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plug ins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse gxine libxine-main1 libxine-extra codecs
<PurpleBlue> Password:
<PurpleBlue> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavail able)
<PurpleBlue> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another proc ess using it?
<sbalneav> ^Ghost2U: I know they're still around, site's just down temporarily.
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: close synaptic
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> PurpleBlue: It might just be doing an update at the moment
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock!
<sbalneav> MV getting closer!
<nixternal> hola edubuntu, how many of you installed automatix or easyubuntu and broke your system doing a dist-upgrade to edgy?
<nixternal> :D  <- here's to you!
* LaserJock didn't
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yes it is
<bimberi> nixternal: such empathy ;)
<nixternal> hehe
<sbalneav> nixternal: Is that what the issue is?
<nixternal> 99.9% of the time it is
<nixternal> because of all that binary non-meta, script cr4p
<PurpleBlue> bimberi, I closed synaptic, and did same sudo line and it says, "Reading package lists... Done
<PurpleBlue> Building dependency tree... Done
<PurpleBlue> E: Couldn't find package gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
<PurpleBlue> "
<nixternal> multiverse enabling is needed
<nixternal> hrmm, universe enabling rather
<PurpleBlue> I checked all repositories prior.
<sbalneav> Are the automatix or easyubuntu people 'fessing up? or staying suspiciously silent? :)
<nixternal> staying silent
<nixternal> that is why Ubuntu said no to utilizing it
<nixternal> and instead want to incorporate everything, or close to everything that automatix does, just with viable metapackages
<sbalneav> heh, isn't stopping Ubuntu from getting blamed :)
<nixternal> it never does
<LaserJock> of course not
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: put your sources.list on a pastebin
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: and tell us the link
<nixternal> funny thing is, we, we being the Ubuntu community, get the same type of blaming and finger pointing that other super successful companies get, such as microsoft
* bimberi winks at sbalneav 
<nixternal> yesterday was Ubuntu Chicago LoCo meeting, and we had a ton of people who up, who were fed up with Ubuntu because of Edgy dist-upgrades, granted some didn't use automatix and what not, but still broke their computer...
<nixternal> mostly due to binary nvidia or ati drivers, which is expected
<sbalneav> Anyone heard this one? after edgy update, (otherwise successful) Launch firefox, it says "theres aready one running", when there isn't.  I've wiped out /tmp, and even deleted my .mozilla dir.  Still no joy. 
<nixternal> that is why i don't use binary or ati drivers, if it isn't in the repos, and i must have it...it must be an amazing program
<crimsun> sbalneav: does purging and reinstalling firefox resolve that?
<nixternal> s/binary or ati/binary nvidia or ati
<sbalneav> Havn't tried that yet.
<sbalneav> So, I wonder where the root cause of the muckups are, with the upgrades.  It'd be nice to say to people, "here, fix this, this, and this before upgrades", because I don't think telling people "no, sorry, no codecs for you" is a solution.
<PurpleBlue> bimberi, how I do that?
<sbalneav> Personally, I think the codec part, at least, should be adopted by Ubuntu.
<bimberi> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it is
<PurpleBlue> I know what pastebin is.  I am speaking about locating the file source.list so I can post that info.
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: ^^
<LaserJock> at least getting close
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: oh sorry
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: /etc/apt/sources.list
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I did a fresh install the other day and when I went to go play an .mp3 it offered to install the needed packages
<LaserJock> sbalneav: took like 10 s and it did it all
<PurpleBlue> bimberi, located it.  Now what is the comman in terminal to dislplay a files contents?
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: do a 'sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list' 
<PurpleBlue> bimberi, back.  Computer frooze for no reason.  Then it went to a 30 boot check .  And forced me to do a fsck then it rebooted, erorred again, then rebooted a 2nd time and let me back in.
<PurpleBlue> bimberi, pastebin is not working.       Waiting, Waiting, waiting..  
<PurpleBlue> deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse
<PurpleBlue> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse
<PurpleBlue> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main restricted
<PurpleBlue> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security main restricted
<PurpleBlue> deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security universe
<PurpleBlue> deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-security universe
<PurpleBlue> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper main restricted
<PurpleBlue>    deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-updates main restricted
<PurpleBlue> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper-updates main restricted
<PurpleBlue> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe main restricted
<PurpleBlue> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe
<PurpleBlue> Bimberi, I check all repositories in synaptic.
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: what was the package with the error again?
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: gstreamer0.10-pitfdll ?  (unfortunately i've lost the backscroll with the disconnect)
<bimberi> !info gstreamer0.10-pitfdll
<ubotu> gstreamer0.10-pitfdll: GStreamer plugin for using MS Windows binary codecs. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.1.1+cvs20060515-1 (edgy), package size 79 kB, installed size 260 kB (Only available for i386)
<PurpleBlue> same here, I got rebooted
<bimberi> !info gstreamer0.10-pitfdll dapper
<ubotu> gstreamer0.10-pitfdll: GStreamer plugin for using MS Windows binary codecs. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 0.9.1.1+cvs20060312-0ubuntu3 (dapper), package size 79 kB, installed size 260 kB (Only available for i386)
<bimberi> ah ha, it's in multiverse in dapper
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: you need to add multiverse to all lines that have universe on them
<PurpleBlue> i copied it back in and now it says.  sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse gxine libxine-main1 libxine-extracodecs
<PurpleBlue> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
<PurpleBlue> I have no idea what I am doing now.   :(
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: try 'sudo apt-get -f install'
<PurpleBlue> k
<sbalneav> How in the heck did I ever get along without the deskbar applet?
<PurpleBlue> sudo apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse gxine libxine-main1 libxine-extracodecs
<PurpleBlue> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
<sbalneav> Especially since I can python script my own!
<PurpleBlue> oops
<PurpleBlue> sudo apt-get -f install
<PurpleBlue> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: righto
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: 'sudo dpkg --configure -a'
<PurpleBlue> sudo dpkg --configure -a
<PurpleBlue> dpkg: error processing dia-libs (--configure):
<PurpleBlue>  Package is in a very bad inconsistent state - you should
<PurpleBlue>  reinstall it before attempting configuration.
<PurpleBlue> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of dia-gnome:
<PurpleBlue>  dia-gnome depends on dia-common (= 0.95.0-4ubuntu1~dapper1); however:
<PurpleBlue>   Version of dia-common on system is 0.94.0-17.1ubuntu3.
<PurpleBlue>  dia-gnome depends on dia-libs (= 0.95.0-4ubuntu1~dapper1); however:
<PurpleBlue>   Package dia-libs is not configured yet.
<PurpleBlue> dpkg: error processing dia-gnome (--configure):
<PurpleBlue>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
<PurpleBlue> Errors were encountered while processing:
<PurpleBlue>  dia-libs
<PurpleBlue>  dia-gnome
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure dia-libs'
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: and paste a bit more selectively please :)
<PurpleBlue> sudo dpkg-reconfigure dia-libs
<PurpleBlue> /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: dia-libs is broken or not fully installed
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: sudo apt-get install --reinstall dia-libs
<PurpleBlue> bimberi, no says unmet dependcies. 
<PurpleBlue> *nw
<PurpleBlue> *now
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: what dependencies?
<PurpleBlue> sudo apt-get install --reinstall dia-libs
<PurpleBlue> Reading package lists... Done
<PurpleBlue> Building dependency tree... Done
<PurpleBlue> You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
<PurpleBlue> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<PurpleBlue>   dia-gnome: Depends: dia-common (= 0.95.0-4ubuntu1~dapper1) but 0.94.0-17.1ubuntu3 is to be installed
<PurpleBlue> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
<PurpleBlue> Bimberi, can you just like remote desktop over and I give you control?
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: ok, this pastebin seems to work - http://pastebin.ca/ - please put your sources.list on there
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: not atm, i'm on very slow dialup
<PurpleBlue> http://pastebin.ca/228655
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: do you need the backports repositories?
<tensor> hello, i've setup an edubuntu with ltsp 
<PurpleBlue> I dont know what backports where, and I asked in the channel and no one responded. So before I went to update Totem I enable all repositories to be sure.
<tensor> i can successfully connect from a desktop client, however, my laptop can't seem to connect and dies while "mounting the root filesystem...."
<tensor> please help!
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: ok, i would comment them out (lines 25,26), change line 15 to have "us.archive.ubuntu.com" and add multiverse to all lines with universe on them (lines 15,16,30,31)
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: save the file and run 'sudo apt-get update', then see if "sudo apt-get -f install" works
<PurpleBlue> bimberi is ebuntu usually this much of a head ache?
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: depends :)  no, i'm kidding, it isn't usually
<PurpleBlue> bimberi, that what it my deal?  I am I just a ex Winblows dumb ass?
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: in your case there does seems to be some issues with how dia has been installed\
* bimberi isn't ignoring tensor, just can't provide any meaningful help sorry
<tensor> bimberi, thanks anyway :D
<PurpleBlue> like tihs? deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper multiverse universe main restricted
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: yep
<PurpleBlue> Now how do I save the file since it is read only?
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: did you use 'sudo gedit ...' ?
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: if not, run that from another terminal and copy/paste across
<PurpleBlue> no, I used nautilus and click on the file
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: ok, leave that open and do this ...
<PurpleBlue> is this better? before I save it http://pastebin.ca/228673
<bimberi> alt-F2 (opens a Run Application window) and use it to run the command:  sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
<bimberi> oh, nvm :)
<bimberi> looking
<PurpleBlue> I deleted those 2 backport lines like you wanted
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: yes that looks good
<PurpleBlue> k
<PurpleBlue> I did sudo gedit and saved
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: great, now run 'sudo apt-get update', then see if "sudo apt-get -f install" works
<PurpleBlue> Reading package lists... Done
<PurpleBlue> W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://us.archive.ubuntu.com dapper/multiverse Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/us.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_dapper_multiverse_binary-amd64_Packages)
<PurpleBlue> W: Duplicate sources.list entry http://security.ubuntu.com dapper-security/multiverse Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_dapper-security_multiverse_binary-amd64_Packages)
<PurpleBlue> W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
<PurpleBlue> m@m-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get -f install
<PurpleBlue> Reading package lists... Done
<PurpleBlue> Building dependency tree... Done
<PurpleBlue> E: The package dia-libs needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it.
<bimberi> PurpleBlue: whatthe? i can't see that duplicate entry
<bimberi> ... on the pastebin
<PurpleBlue> http://pastebin.ca/228684
* PurpleBlue getting little bit frustrated.   2 hours later, and still can play a mp3 file off the internet.
<PurpleBlue> *cant
<bimberi> !info dia-libs dapper
<ubotu> dia-libs: Diagram editor (library files). In component main, is optional. Version 0.94.0-17.1ubuntu3 (dapper), package size 535 kB, installed size 1668 kB
* PurpleBlue is ready to take a hatchet to edubuntu
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: morning
<edubuntugirl> salut, highvoltage!
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<edubuntugirl> hello cbx33 :)
<cbx33> hello edubuntugirl 
<edubuntugirl> heya, cbx33!
<cbx33> anyone know what this is about Session management error: Authentication Rejected, reason : None of the authentication protocols specified are supported and host-based authentication failed
<highvoltage> cbx33: where do you get that message?
<cbx33> when I run an init script
<cbx33> for mythtv backend
<cbx33> highvoltage: any thoughts?
<highvoltage> cbx33: well, it complains about authentication. do you know what it might be trying to authentcate against?
<highvoltage> cbx33: if you can find that out, then you could check the logs of the appropriate service
<ogra> it tries to run any kind of X app on a X DISPLAY thats not owned by that user
<highvoltage> ogra: good morning. has someone responded to CatherineCapers? should I?
<ogra> if you like to
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> tell him that NBD_SWAP is enabled by default on new installs ;)
<ogra> and point to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT :)
<highvoltage> ok, thanks for the tips
<highvoltage> I thought it was strange that his NDB wasn't enabled.
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: nat
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: I'm not following you...
<ogra> well, might be an upgrade problem ...
<ogra> i didnt see it here, but you never know
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: nat is <reply> For NAT on an Edubuntu Server, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowtoNAT
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: daar's hy
<highvoltage> eek, edubuntugirl still knows some Afrikaans :)
<ogra> ever heard of http://www.2x.com/
<ogra> ?
<highvoltage> yep
<ogra> they seem to reimplement NX
<ogra> based on the free parts of the NX code
<highvoltage> it seemed very similar to nx last time I looked
<ogra> right
<ogra> what i hope is that they reimplement it without the broken evil parts :)
<highvoltage> that would be cool.
<ogra> s/reimplement/reimplemented/
<highvoltage> they currently boot using pxes, would be nice if they could use an ubuntu base one day. the ubuntu ltsp chroot is quite close to pxes these days, isn't it?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> well, i'd love to package it if they have gotten rid of the xlibs duplication issues
<ogra> i'll look into it 
<ogra> would be nice to have optional NX support in ltsp
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> there seems to be demand for it especially in the richer countries where people want to log in to their session at school from home.
<pips1> On the weekend, I finally managed to do an server upgrade test. During the upgrade, I was asked some questions. I don't think normal users really know what to choose, so it would be great to document this somewhere... 
<pips1> I was asked 1. Replace /etc/login.defs 2. What would you like to do about exports? /etc/exports 3. Replace etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf' 
<ogra> 3 is intresting
<ogra> did you say yes ?
<pips1> I chose 1. Replace it 2. Keep it (since the new version only added some stuff in commented lines) 3. Replace it. However, I don't know if these were actually the right choices. I need to test the server more.. but so far, the system seems to run quite ok. (Printing doesn't seem to work)
<ogra> did you set it up in lts.conf ?
<pips1> Note, for "3. Replace etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf", I chose replace it, but then I had to manually change the IP addresses in dhcpd.conf again, since my setup uses 192.168.1.2 on the server, rather than 192.168.0.x... (with only *one* NIC)
<ogra> it doesnt work out of the box
<pips1> Did I set up what in lts.conf? I didn't touch lts.conf so far, I think..
<ogra> well, oyu need to set up printing like in classic ltsp
<ogra> PRINTER_0_DEVICE=/dev/usblp0 in lts.conf for a specific client who has an usb printer attached for example
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: start my test upgrade timer
<edubuntugirl> Okay, highvoltage!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: stop my test upgrade timer
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Your timer has been running for 9 seconds
<jsgotangco> hello
<highvoltage> cool.
<highvoltage> hi jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> oh boy are the forums being smacked now
<jsgotangco> because of the upgrade thing
<pips1> oh, sorry, I didn't mean printing from a thin client. I haven't tried/tested that. I wasn't able to print from my printer connected to the server. So I suppose that would be an *ubuntu* but rather than anything edubuntu specific. Sorry for the confusion.
<pips1> jsgotangco: yeah.. :-/
<highvoltage> the upgrade thing is a mess
<ogra> pips1, right
<highvoltage> heno is right, users will always customise their system. the upgrade manager should really do a sanity heck first.
<pips1> I looks like this was the first release that *lots* of people actually tried an upgrade?
<pips1> s/I/it/
<ogra> no, but newspapers and online news sites all promote stuff like automatix
<ogra> or easyubuntu
<jsgotangco> yeah
<ogra> we warn users sincer hoary not to use these
<highvoltage> ogra: even though you're correct, an upgrade tool should still check if it's safe to upgrade before doing so
<ogra> it does several checks
<pips1> well, even a "clean" upgrade isn't really that easy. I mean, I found it quite tricky and not very user-friendly. E.g. see "Strange upgrade behaviour from Dapper to Edgy" https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/nfs-utils/+bug/67133
<ogra> but if people for example use th ePLF repo which is down now ... they will run into probs we cant cover
<pips1> ePLF ?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: it'll be us running the rat race if that happens
<highvoltage> Penguin Liberation Front
<highvoltage> pips1: was an archive for .debs that you couldn't get in debian/ubuntu
<pips1> oh
<jsgotangco> well your system won't get borked if you just get codecs
<jsgotangco> other codecs that is
<jsgotangco> but the problem is some people install apps that trashes dependencies 
<pips1> how do the trash dependencies?
<ogra> the server doesnt exist atm
<ogra> that trashes downloads ---
<pips1> oic
<pips1> one of the errors I got during my upgrade was installArchives() failed after ERROR got an error from dpkg for pkg: 'nfs-kernel-server': 'subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 137
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi all :)
<pips1> hi Kamping
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
* Kamping_Kaiser hugs pips1 
<pips1> The thing is, "ms conditioned" users aren't used to explicit error messages, so when suddenly you get tons of output, you think "omg, is *anything* working at all? this thing looks completely broken!"
<rodarvus> hi guys :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi rodarvus 
<rodarvus> just noticed this arriving on my mailbox
<rodarvus> "Hello,
<rodarvus> The status of Jerome S. Gotangco membership on team "edubuntu" (Edubuntu)
<rodarvus> was changed from Approved to Expired."
<pips1> heh
<rodarvus> heh, funny stuff :)
<ogra> yeah, expiration works :)
<rodarvus> I wonder if his subscription was set to one or two (already?!) years
<ogra> i think that was a very early subscription where we didnt have expiratiojn working at all
<ogra> i think it was set to a 1 year default in the beginning ...
<ogra> later we decided for 2 years
* ^Ghost2U yawns & stretches
<^Ghost2U> mornin' all
<pips1> hmm Amaranth suggests aptitude instead of apt-get for dist-upgrading http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1324800&postcount=9
<Kamping_Kaiser> i was under the impression aptitude was the only offically supported way. *shrug*
<highvoltage> pips1: I don't think he's suggesting aptitude for ubuntu, he's pointing out that debian suggests aptitude, so people expect it to work in Ubuntu too
<pips1> highvoltage: right
<highvoltage> Kamping_Kaiser: the problem is that a lot of people also thought so.
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah
<pips1> Kamping_Kaiser: I don't know about the "official" way, but I saw https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdgyUpgrades and that only mentions 'update-manager' and 'apt-get'
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders what the release notes say
<jsgotangco> gksu update-manager -c
<jsgotangco> and apt-get dist-upgrade done twice for servers
<ogra> nobody in the distro team uses aptitude afaik 
<pips1> I had also read the following post http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=185467 and decided to follow the advice about disabling screen saver, disabling non-official repos, etc. That forum post is for breezy->dapper though, so people won't read it now anymore.
<jsgotangco> well the distro uses aptitude during setup afaik hehehe
<ogra> d-i uses it as backend, yes
<jsgotangco> so its probably a saner way to do it
<ogra> but thats likely to go away at some point as well
<pips1> interesting
<Kamping_Kaiser> stop using aptitude?
<jsgotangco> but then, we've been going through this upgrade thing since hoary
<ogra> jsgotangco, right
<ogra> Kamping_Kaiser, up to you ...
<jsgotangco> Kamping_Kaiser: eventually it'll be like dselect
<jsgotangco> it'll be all up to you
* Kamping_Kaiser hasnt used aptitude since he first got entangled in the 'gui'
<pips1> question: I've been really blown away by the upgrade. I mean: it's so cool to be able to upgrade your os and (supported) apps in one go...
<jsgotangco> well its pretty much a gui-fied manager on text mode
<jsgotangco> pips1: doesn't windows also do that tee hee
<jsgotangco> its pretty until it says "your drivers are borked for this upgrade"
<jsgotangco> heh
<pips1> ahh, here is my question: how does upgrading work for ms? I've been told that you can install a new windows version *over* an old one and it's supposed to keep your settings intact... However, that windows admin also told me he doesn't trust it works. Does anyone have more info about this?
<jsgotangco> pips1: well based on my experience before on 2k -> XP. its pretty sane, it checks beforehand on what will work and what won't and tell you what to do
<jsgotangco> XP pretty much checks for unsigned drivers as well nowadays but its pretty easy to just ignore it
<pips1> ic
<Kamping_Kaiser> and everyone i know does
<jsgotangco> if you got one of those no-name devices from taiwan, they're most likely unsigned
<jsgotangco> and they just say in the manual to "ignore it"
<highvoltage> heh
<Kamping_Kaiser> or any new nvidia driver...
<jsgotangco> right
<jsgotangco> oh gnome.org will be using plone
<highvoltage> I like plone, but people who use it nearly always end up in tears somehow.
<jsgotangco> i do at the moment
<jsgotangco> hehe
<highvoltage> it seems to work real great for FSF
<jsgotangco> i sometimes cry over iosn.net
<jsgotangco> its probably i just dont know what im doing most of the time
<jsgotangco> heh
<pips1> plone never really worked for me as a site visitor.. !
<jsgotangco> pips1: yeah that's pretty common
<highvoltage> cool, edubuntu is listed on http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/footware.shtml
<jsgotangco> nice!
<paolob-parroquia> Hi guys! the page about upgrading edubuntu to edgy https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdgyReleaseNotes doesn't say (in the apt-get section) I have to rebuild the ltsp chroot tree. Is it true or wrong?
<pips1> oh, btw, ogra when I did my amd64 server dist-upgrade, I tried sudo ltsp-build-client initially, and that failed completely. Since my thin clients are i386, I re-tried it with 'ltsp-build-client --arch i386' and that worked. Have you tested a amd64 server dist-upgrade yourself yet?
<ogra> no, but the above is the right way to do it
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, then that page is to actualize, isn't it?
<ogra> (you could as well chroot into the client env and run apt-get dist-upgrade though)
<paolob-parroquia> s/actualize/correct/
<ogra> paolob-parroquia, well, it should probably be on a EdubuntuEdgyUpgrade notes page or something
<ogra> that wikipage you pointed to is for general ubuntu ...
<pips1> paolob-parroquia: the following wiki page helped me: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
<pips1> ^^^ but there should probably be an updated page for the dapper -> edgy ltsp upgrade
<ogra> right
<ogra> and for the upgrading procedure ltspfsd should be installed in the new chroot so you get localdevs working ...
<ogra> its only pulled in from ltsp-build-client, but nothing depends on it yet so upgrades wont pull it in
<jsgotangco> we should really get our act on these upgrade notes for edubuntu like a month before release
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> make some more docteam members :)
<jsgotangco> how about we try doing something for every development milestone?
<jsgotangco> just to get it going
<ogra> phew
<ogra> thats a lot of work
<ogra> but we'll have rock solid upgrade notes then indeed
<ogra> i'm just worried about the manpower that burns
<jsgotangco> i dunno how it'll prosper, documentation has always been a casual contribution space
<jsgotangco> i was just thinking, for feisty, I'll just concentrate on release notes
<jsgotangco> or something like that
<jsgotangco> nothing more
<ogra> yeah, edubuntu sucks if it comes to docs
<ogra> or better i suck at packaging -doc packages ?
<jsgotangco> oh i dunno you're already swamped being our dearl LTSP product manager
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, but Mark wouldn't pay a person to work on edubuntu docs?
<pips1> heh, good question 
<ogra> unlikely
<ogra> he doesnt pay anyone for ubuntu docs ...
<ogra> why should he do so for a (even official) derivative
<jsgotangco> heh
<cbx33> hi all
<jsgotangco> we had a good one on docs during dapper
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, another question, where should I modify so that ltsp-build-client use a apt-cacher proxy? because I have to edubuntu servers and I need saving bandwidth
<jsgotangco> withougt being paid
<cbx33> ogra: about that question I posed earlier ......the script was an init script being run by root
<ogra> well, it tries to start any kind of X app 
<cbx33> is there any way I can prevent it from showing....
<cbx33> I'm trying to run a mythtv box - I know not scrictly edubuntu...but it is on edubuntu
<jsgotangco> mythtv eekkk
<cbx33> and it's for teaching purposes
<cbx33> I'm trying to start the mythtv-backend
<ogra> well, might be that it tries to stqart mythtv-setup, no idea
<cbx33> ok
<jsgotangco> hmm why does lp say im expred in edubuntu
<jsgotangco> ah its the old team
<ogra> jsgotangco, because we dont want you anymore :P
<jsgotangco> *sniff*
<ogra> i think its because the expiration code was still experimental when we created the edubuntu team :)
<ogra> and initially didnt set a default or did set it to 1 year
<jsgotangco> everyday we live on the edge with lp
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> yeah
<paolob-parroquia> ogra, what about using ltsp-build-client with the apt-cacher proxy?
<ogra> arent you even admin of the team ?
<ogra> dunno, i never used apt-proxy
<ogra> but you will need to set it up like you do on the server
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 ....
<ogra> make your edits ...
<ogra> hit ctrl -d
<ogra> oh, and for ltsp-build-client use the --mirror option ;)
<paolob-parroquia> but does ltsp-build-client use information stored in the chroot?
<RichEd> hi ogra, jsgotangco, paolob-parroquia cbx33
<RichEd> I've just scrolled back to the thread above regarding documentation ...
<paolob-parroquia> hi RichEd 
<RichEd> willvdl should be taking over a role as coordinator of edubuntu documentation, making sure that:
<RichEd> 1. all of the docs are consistent across web-site, wiki, handbook, promo material etc.
<RichEd> 2. setting up a process flow for what is needed when
<RichEd> I'll make sure to let him know that he should document the release requirements and release process to make sure we prepare what is needed each time - and well in advance
<jsgotangco> RichEd: good day to you!
<edubuntugirl> RichEd: *ahem*
<jsgotangco> RichEd: its your call goodluck
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi RichEd 
<RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser 
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<jsgotangco> RichEd: just remember that documentation has always been a "casual" contribution space and you can't rely much on commitments most of the time
<RichEd> jsgotangco: 100% understood and agreed ... we are very lucky to have volunteers who have helped with it thus far ... but I think it is becoming more critical than an "optional item".
<RichEd> The idea then is for willvdl to formally draw up requirements and proceses, and for us to match what we have or can do at the moment, and the requirements, and do a GAP analysis. We need to know where we have holes, and what the consequences are. If they are severe, we (canonical) need to find a way to address them.
<RichEd> I'm hoping that as we expand the community numbers, we will find more volunteer effort, but if that is not enough, then we need to be the one that lets the "purse holders" know about the risks.
<RichEd> then I need to be the one <- correction
<RichEd> ogra: you all set for the ltsp conf ?
<ogra> you mean if i will bring my brain to SF ?
<ogra> i was plannins so, yes :)
<ogra> *planning
<RichEd> when do you disappear into the ltsp conference ... will we see you at the edubuntu meeting on wednesday ?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> i'll be on plane then 
<ogra> i'll fly out wednesday moring ... (12h flight)
<RichEd> okay
<RichEd> From the UDS schedule, I see that I've got the same flight as you from Frankfurt, but mine is on Saturday. I've got a 12 hour flight to get to Frankfurt before that.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: imho you (canonical) is better off on having some professional on this regard, after all, it spends money on art
<pips1> RichEd: is the UDS online somewhere? link?
<ogra> jsgotangco, thats a myth
<pips1> *UDS schedule
<ogra> we dont spend money on art
<jsgotangco> oh?
<RichEd> jsgotangco: That is the gist of my comments above. It would be a crime to have the technical work & software production done by ogra and his "team" let down because of insufficient documentation.
<RichEd> But I agree with ogra and the art comment.
<jsgotangco> are you saying dapper's artwork (chalkboard) was just volunteer
<pips1> ogra: who is doing the cd sleaves? that isn't community artwork, is it?
<ogra> the art stuff is all done on a voluntary base ... only some parts are outsourced to a arts company
<jsgotangco> that's what i meant
<ogra> pips1, nope
<ogra> jsgotangco, ahh ...
<jsgotangco> some parts are outsourced
<jsgotangco> im not saying everyting
<jsgotangco> sorry
<ogra> what i meant was that the artteam guys dont get paied
<RichEd> There is an agency that looks at "branding & image" stuff, but they are only available to head office ... not the software / art teams
<jsgotangco> for all its worth, i still think you should allocate a substantial budget to have something delivered with high expectations
<RichEd> And by agency, I mean one person on a part time retainer ... so it is not a big company expense or focus.
<cbx33> jsgotangco: I kinda agree
<pips1> Can I have a look at the UDS schedule somewhere?
<cbx33> Edubuntu never gets funding for artwork
<RichEd> pips1: let me wrap this thread, and I'll check for you
<cbx33> apart from last release
<RichEd> jsgotangco: Again, as per my comments above, I agree, but the first step is to do the requirements and gap analysis.
<cbx33> if you know what I mean
<jsgotangco> if you notice on the background of d-i, you get *tons* of errors on the xml
<RichEd> And then a risk againast the gap.
<jsgotangco> but they are not really critical, only annoying on the background
<jsgotangco> they do not affect the overall appearance of the product but it shows there lacked QA on testing the actualy documentation tech-wise
<RichEd> There may be creative ways to address the requirements, but until we can quantify them and the impact on software adoption / user happiness, we cannot just go and say we have a need for funded documentation.
<jsgotangco> well the easiest is have someone external review them
<jsgotangco> and still retain the voluntary part for documentation
<jsgotangco> our svn currenly has all the revisions we need to make some sort of quantitative analysis
<jsgotangco> and probably our bugs in lp
<jsgotangco> but that's just my opinion :)
<jsgotangco> and its pretty much overall, not edubuntu specific
<jsgotangco> (sorry for OT)
<ogra> pips1, the schedule is made dynamically every morning
<ogra> based on the specs and subscriptions to them
<jsgotangco> lp-o-matic magic
<ogra> (things without specs wont be scheduled)
<pips1> ogra: since the schedule is work in progress, it isn't linked on the official UDS MV wiki page, but do you have an URL where I can see the developing schedule?
<ogra> pips1, it will be generated on at the first morning
<ogra> it gets generated *every* morning
<ogra> there is no schedule in advance
<ogra> LP chacks the specs every day (to catch the progress) and generates it newly)
<ogra> s/every day/every morning/
<ogra> thats why its so important to have a spec for *everything you want to discuss
<ogra> else you wont get a slot for discussin it
<RichEd> ogra: Is there a way to view all proposed MV spec discussion topics from LP ?
<jsgotangco> its at the meeting tracker
<ogra> https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+specs
<jsgotangco> https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv
<pips1> *click*
<RichEd> thanks both
* RichEd is out for 30 mins
<pips1> hmm, I'm seeing minor glitches on the upgraded edubuntu. The logging-in-sound is clipped
<pips1> false alarm, the batteries of my external amp are dead!
<pips1> pffft
<pips1> ogra: as far as I know, printing support got a lot of love in Edgy, right?
<pips1> I mean for ubuntu in general
<pips1> however, it seems that the printer driver doesn't get upgraded, but you need to de- and re-install the printer
<pips1> ^^local printer on the server
* pips1 continues with Testing/Long
<cberl1> Anyone able to give me a hand upgrading a 6.06 Edubuntu to 6.10?  I can't seem to get the ltsp-build-client part to work -- I get a message about not being able to link /dev/fd because it already exists (I've run the script a couple times now) and it exits abnormally.
<cberl1> Trying the script again right now to get the exact message...
* pips1 notes that all kdeedu apps have a 'get help online' option pointing to launchpad, except for 'Kig' and 'KmPlot'
<cberl1> Okay, exact as I can type, the messages are:  "leaving 'diversion of /etc/mtab to /etc/mtab.real by ltsp-client' \ 'opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list' -> '/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list.old' \ ln: creating symbolic link '/dev/fd' to '/proc/self/fd': file exists \ error:  LTSP client installation ended abnormally"
<pips1> cberl1: what is your server hardware? i386 or amd64?
<cberl1> i386
<pips1> i see, hmm, sorry can't really help about your problem :-/
<cberl1> going to try again before hosing the system and restarting from an Edubuntu 6.10 install disk.  Hoping I don't have to do that because then I have to migrate everything I have on my production server to this "new" server.  PITA factor.... 
<monchi> Good Morning
<cberl1> Just to verify, LTSP *does* work in the new setup, right?  :)
<pips1> I ran into trouble during the ltsp-build-client step. But I have amd64 server with i386 thin clients. so I re-did the step with specifying the architecture explicitely (sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386), and then it worked
<highvoltage> cberl1: of course it does
<cberl1> highvoltage: I figured as much.  Didn't figure it would be a hassle to upgrade, though.  It's a bit unnerving.
<monchi> Anybody have been able to set different profiles (desktops) on the workstation Ubuntu?
<cberl1> Fresh 6.06 install, migrating directly to 6.10
<highvoltage> cberl1: unfortunately, yes :-/
<cberl1> monchi: Yes and no.  I know the way I did it was not exactly the standard way.  I understand Pessulus and Sabayan are involved in the usual way.
<pips1> cberl1: what is the hassle (besides that the ltsp-build-client fails, of course)?
<cberl1> pips1: That would be about it.  And given that this is a terminal server, that would be a bit of a problem, wouldn't it?  :)
<monchi> cberl1: I am trying to understand why something that simple before is so complex now.  I just one of my users have mozilla when he logs in
<pips1> cberl1: right, sure
<monchi> cberl1: easily done on regular Debian 
<cberl1> monchi: how would you do it on Debian?  Should work the same way, shouldn't it?
<monchi> cberl1: I would use a WindowManager not Gnome 
<cberl1> monchi: are you making a "kiosk" kind of setup?
<monchi> cberl1: Then would control it with a local Xsession. My point is that this should have been covered on this distribution
<monchi> actually
<monchi> this link https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDynamicMenus has details on edubuntu to do it.  But I can't find the package
<monchi> and I am actually using Ubuntu
<pips1> monchi: I'm not quite sure about what you are trying to achieve.. 
<monchi> pips1: You set a workstation that is limited to Mozilla browser on the desktop. Anything else is not available for this specific user
<monchi> pips1: if you log in with another user... you may have a different "profile"
<pips1> monchi: and you used to do this how in pure debian?
<ogra> cberl1, did you follow https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes ?
<cberl1> Okay, I'll let Edubuntu off the hook for this strange error I've been getting.  Blowing away all of /opt/ltsp and re-running the script worked fine.  I'm going to guess it's network issues around here that were causing the problem.  About to test the thin client in a moment, and my guess is it will work just fine....  :)  Now, any suggestions on getting OpenMosix to work with that?
<cberl1> ogra: Of course.  :)
<monchi> profile setups .. 
<ogra> pips1, no idea whats done about printing in ubuntu, sorry, i only cared for ltsp printing 
<ogra> cberl1, and you properly deleted the old directory ?
<cberl1> ogra: The first time, yes.  Then something probably went haywire with our network (that happens sometimes!) so I assumed that it wasn't working right.  My apologies for the wrong assumption.
<ogra> cberl1, btw: mount /cdrom && sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom 
<ogra> its a lot faster (if you have the CD around anyway)
<pips1> monchi: the feature from the page you mentioned (EdubuntuDynamicMenus) is not fully done, as far as I know, there is a specification for the upcoming Feisty https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-menus-completion
* pips1 takes a note of ogra's hint for upgrading with a cd 
<pips1> :)
<cberl1> ogra: That was half the problem -- downloading the CD from here has been nightmarishly slow (<10K/sec).  I think our packet filter had something to do with it, but it could also be the intermittent traffic caused by  thousands of kids attacking th enet...
<monchi> pips1, okay thanks.  I thought it was implemented and added to the Universal repository
<cberl1> ogra: so basically, when I upgrade the live server, I should use the CD to kick things off and things will work fine?
<ogra> cberl1, if you already have the CD there, its a lot faster, yes
<ogra> afaik the cd has a cdromupgrade script in the top level dir you should be able to run
<cberl1> Alrighty then.  Patience in downloading the CD will make me a much happier camper than having anything go wrong updating the live server.
<cberl1> ogra: When you pop in the CD, that's the notice about "Ubuntu CD has been inserted" or something to that effect, right?
<ogra> right
<pips1> cberl1: yes, and there *is* a cdromupgrade on the cd, as ogra mentioned :)
<pips1> *cdromupgrade script
<cberl1> Half my problem is probably that I got interrupted part way through this upgrade process.  As usual, excellent work, guys!  I really appreciate the amount of work that goes into the Ubuntu distribution and the feedback mechanisms you have in place!
<cberl1> ogra:  is there no default lts.conf installed upon upgrade?  I don't see it...
<ogra> its installed by edubuntu-artwork (which holds all themes and settings)
<ogra> if you want to force it:
<ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork
<cberl1> thanks
<ogra> that will put it in place for post installations  ...
<cberl1> ogra: As you may recall, I'm not running the standard ldm stuff due to pam_mount issues.  Should the local devices, printing, etc. work properly without that, or do I need to find out how to get pam_mount to work with ldm?
<ogra> no, thlocaldev wont work without ldm
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<ogra> we'll attack that foe xdmcp in feisty
<sbalneav> Morning ogra!
<sbalneav> What are we attacking?
<ogra> lda
<ogra> on xdmcp
<sbalneav> Attacked, and vanquished this weekend :)
<ogra> .oO(wow, we're at a point where i can start speaking in acronyms)
<sbalneav> Was looking for you yesterday :)
<ogra> what was up ?
* ogra needs to rush out soon, susie wants to take me to buy some new t-shirts shorts shoes etc ...
<cberl1> then I guess I'll let you know how it works out for me... :)
<ogra> dressing up for UDS :)
<sbalneav> I got the event communication going over xproperties, which works in both places.  If you've got an ssh session, then the info's encrypted.  If it's xdmcp, then it's just straight X.
<ogra> yay
<sbalneav> I'll demo it down at LTSP/UDS
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> looking forward to it :)
<ogra> so no dbus needed, eh ? 
<sbalneav> I'm going to bring a thin client, keyb, mouse and screen with me.
<ogra> cool
<ogra> dunno if we'll have an ubuntu love day this time 
<ogra> else we could demo it a bit :)
<sbalneav> Well, you can do it WITHOUT dbus, in the long run, rather than this thing calling things directly, it could simply read the X props, and issue dbus messages, but that's for Grubby Groundhog. :)
<cberl1> Okay, now on to the next issue:  at thin client boot, it's giving me:  Loading hardware drivers:  failed and it has a message about not finding /lib/modules/.../modules.dep ...
<ogra> hwere does the filename directive in your dhcpd.conf point to ?
<ogra> it should be: filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
<sbalneav> cberl1: That sounds like a kernel issue, yeah, where's your kernel booting from.
<cberl1> it's /ltsp/pxelinux.0
<cberl1> Lemme look at that....
<ogra> ah, just change it to /ltsp/i386
<ogra> and dont forget to restart the ddhcpd
<cberl1> You're good.  :)  Rebooting and waiting for things to happen again....
<cberl1> Hey, graphical boot on TC, very nice!
<ogra> sounds good
<cberl1> ogra:  working perfectly once again.  This is something I can replicate.  But I do still have the issue of not being able to use both pam_mount and ldm...
<ogra> well, what do you need from pam_mount ? 
<ogra> do you want the homedir mounted on the server ?
<ogra> that should be possible to set up in the pam config (even though i dont know how)
<cberl1> ogra: basically, yes.  I need to mount their "home drive" and some common school shares (clipart, extra apps, etc)
<ogra> right, ssh uses pam for logging in
<cberl1> it's that last part that's the critical ("even though i dont know how") -- seems I can't get the "recipe" right to get that working.
<ogra> so it should be possible to configure that on the server
<ogra> we'll look into a edubuntu-directory server for feisty, so i'll address that soon, but currently i'm not a pam specialist
<cberl1> I've read that is can be done with a flavour of SSH for Debian, so in theory nothing is impossible.  I'll just have to play with this test box and get our Net guys to give me the same kind of accesses...
<cberl1> Thanks for getting me this far.
<pips1> ogra: what is the correct command to restart the dhcpd in the server?
<ogra> if you find a proper way to implement it, please wiki it or something, so we can consider it for the directory server stuff :)
<ogra> sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart
<pips1> ta!
<cberl1> Absolutely!  You'll be the first to know!
<ogra> anyway, got to go shopping ... else GF gets angry
<pips1> go go go
<pips1> :)
<cberl1> ogra: by all means, DON'T anger the GF!  :)
* pips1 knows the feeling
<pips1> :-)
<ogra> cberl1, she's angry enough because i travel so much next month :)
<ogra> i wont put oil into the fire ;)
<pips1> same here :-D
<pips1> but you are travelling even more
<nlindblad> evening
<ogra> pips1, right, i wont be back before nov 25th 
<nlindblad> is it possible to use the LTSP shipped with Dapper for 1280x1024 on the clients?
<ogra> and i'm flying out on nov 1st
<ogra> nlindblad, yes, but you got the solution in #ltsp already ...
<nlindblad> ogra: no, it doesn't understand those flags apperantly
<ogra> X_VERTREFRESH and X_HORZSYNC are the only ways
<ogra> it does
<nlindblad> are you sure?
<ogra> but your monitor probably doesnt understand the values
<nlindblad> they make no difference
<nlindblad> oki
<ogra> qanother option would be a static xorg.conf
* pips1 can login with the thin client
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> is there a way to see login attempts from clients on the server?
<ogra> nlindblad, put XF86CONFIG_FILE=/etc/special-client.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf and special-client.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ for that
<nlindblad> thanks!
<ogra> pips1, /vqar/log/auth.log logs all ssh logins 
<sbalneav> pips1: SHould be in /var/log/auth.log
<pips1> thanks 2x !
<ogra> ok, but now ...
<ogra> bbl
<pips1> cu
<sbalneav> heh, edubuntu-devel
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> "The admin user can reset the root pasword after login?!?!?!? UNBELEIVABLE!!!!!"
* pips1 manages to login with the thin client and proceeds to do /Testing/Long
<cberl1> Ummm...  I just noticed I can't actually login to my Thin Client, now that everything "looks" good.  What should I be looking for in auth.log to determine the source of the problem?
<sbalneav> If you had a problem with some dhcpd stuff you might want to re-update your sshkeys
<sbalneav> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
<cberl1> rihgt.
<cberl1> Should I have to reboot the client for that to take effect?
<cberl1> (update went rather fast -- should it show me some kind of result?)
<sbalneav> I don't think so.
<sbalneav> Nope.  like all Unix commands silent == ok :)
<cberl1> Looks much better now
<cberl1> Time to (finally) get SSH and PAM_MOUNT to play with each other!!
<sbalneav> A fundamental, and unwritten law of unix command line utilities is, if they're successful, and normally wouldn't produce output, they should just be quiet.
<sbalneav> i.e. cp, mv, etc.
<cberl1> Alright.  Reasonable enough.  Failure results in loud complaining usually...  Guess I've been playing with Windows too much lately -- it complains whether things work or not!
<cberl1> Okay, looking very nice so far.  Seems to scan my floppy every time I access my USB stick, but taking the floppy out fixes that issue...
<cberl1> Now, do I recall reading that with this setup, I don't "unmount" or eject media, just take them out and we're good to go?
<sbalneav> Yep
<sbalneav> That's right.
<cberl1> That's a fast system it uses.  I just popped in a CD and it read it before I looked back at the screen.  I expected lag.
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> \o/ for me and ogra :)
<cberl1> Kudos indeed!
<pips1> sbalneav: I want to change the default keyboard layout for the thin clients. I can do that by editing lts.conf, right? Is that the lts.conf in /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/ ?
<sbalneav> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<sbalneav> There shouldn't be one in edubuntu-artwork
<sbalneav> There is!
<sbalneav> Weeeeeird
<sbalneav> No, that's not the one.
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> well, I did a find / -name "lts.conf" 2>/dev/null
<sbalneav> I'll have to ask ogra about that one later.
<pips1> strangely, I don't have a lts.conf in  /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ ?!
<pips1> sbalneav: ^^^ ?
<pips1> (note that this is a system that has been upgraded dapper -> edgy)
<pips1> (if that makes any difference)
<sbalneav> pips1: You'll probably want to do a:
<sbalneav> mv /opt/ltsp /opt/ltsp.old && ltsp-build-client
<sbalneav> and rebuild the chroot.
<pips1> well, I did that already!
<pips1> and I am currently logged in on the thin client and it seems that I got edgy alright
<sbalneav> well, there should be a small one in there already.
<sbalneav> [default] 
<sbalneav>         X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
<sbalneav>         LOCALDEV=True
<sbalneav>         SOUND=True
<sbalneav>         NBD_SWAP=True
<sbalneav> like that.
<pips1> yes, that's the contents of /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/lts.conf
<sbalneav> that's the contents of /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf on my system :)
<kenkarniff> hello! i'm trying out the new edubuntu with ltsp, but i cant get the right gdm welcome language (swedish) and keymapping. Language support in menus and programs is working. Does anyone have  any tip how i can fix this?
<pips1> kenkarniff: I am currently also trying to configure the keymapping for the clients, so we can work it out together :-)
<kenkarniff> pips1: ah at least i'm not alone! :)
<pips1> as far as I understand, we can configure the default keyboard layout for the thin clients in the 'lts.conf' file. On my system, the file is in /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/lts.conf. However, on the system of sbalneav, it is in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf.
<pips1> Have a look to see if you can find the ltp.conf on your system :-)
<sbalneav> pips1: just copy that file to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf, and edit it there.
<pips1> ok
* pips1 does ##sudo cp /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/lts.conf /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf 
<pips1> kenkarniff: note, you might not have to do that on your system, if you already have /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/lts.conf
<kenkarniff> yes i've found it at /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf. the parameters i've set is XkbSymbols, XkbModel and XkbLayout
<pips1> sorry I meant /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<pips1> and it works for you?
<kenkarniff> it does not... 
<cberl1> Getting side-tracked just a little here, a colleague just approached me about getting a Ubuntu CD for his laptop.  I have a few of 6.06 but I'd like to grab 6.10 for him.  I notice there is no jigdo file for the i386 Desktop iso -- anyone know where I can get that, or recreate it?
<sbalneav> The parameters for keyboard are:
<sbalneav> XKBLAYOUT, XKBMODEL, XKBVARIANT, XKBRULES, XKBOPTIONS
<sbalneav> All caps
<kenkarniff> sbalneav: thank you, i will try that (didnt have caps)
<sbalneav> No problem
<pips1> sbalneav: do you have examples for the XKBLAYOUT, etc properties handy?
<sbalneav> No, but they should be the same as the corresponding X.org settings.
<pips1> ic
* pips1 tries to find the according x.org file
<pips1> what is the name of that x.org conf file?
<sbalneav> Well, the xorg file's normally at /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<pips1> ah, many thanks
<sbalneav> man xorg.conf should give you info
* pips1 does ##man xorg.conf
<pips1> phew, so many options
<pips1> hmm, I starting to think that I need to try rebuilding the ltsp-client, there is too much wrong with my thin client, e.g. the sound playing on the server instead of the client, the keyboard layout in lts.conf doen't get picked up...
<sbalneav> Did you have an old 4.2 ltsp there before?
<kenkarniff> pips1: i have problems with sound too! i'll try if the server plays the sound... dont have any speakers connected there
<pips1> sbalneav: I did a fresh edubuntu 6.06 install and then upgraded to 6.10
<sbalneav> Why not a fresh 6.10 install? :)
<pips1> I'm testing :-)
<sbalneav> You'll definitely want to re-build the client, and do an ltsp-update-kernels as well.
<pips1> sbalneav: I have followed all the steps from the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
<sbalneav> Which steps?
<pips1> with the exception of doing sudo 'ltsp-build-client --arch i386' as a last step, since I got an amd64 server and i386 thin clients
<nlindblad> does chrooting to /opt/ltsp/i386/ and using apt work?
<pips1> should do, according to ogra earlier
<nlindblad> nice
<sbalneav> nlindblad: It does, but can lead to some inconsistencies.  a re-build is better.
<cberl1> pips1:  sounds a lot like the "test" I've been doing.  Fairly clean?
<sbalneav> If you set up a local apt-cache repository, you can rebuild the chroot in about 5 minutes.
<cberl1> sbalneav: Using a local squid caching server works about that way, too.
<sbalneav> yep
<sbalneav> it does.
<pips1> hmm, since I got the edgy installer cd... I guess that is an option too
<pips1> ogra mentioned ## mount /cdrom && sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
<sbalneav> that, too, will work.
<cberl1> I love having options
<sbalneav> There's always more than one way to it :)
<pips1> cberl1: my upgrade went "fairly clean", yes, meaning that my server now runs edgy alright, but I'm a bit confused to why I didn't have /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf and why the sound is playing on the server instead of the client...
<nlindblad> sbalneav: but if it's screwed up a simple re-build will recreate it?
<cberl1> pips1: I found the lts.conf was missing, too -- ogra said dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork fixes that (with -pcritical switch, apparently)
<cberl1> ..as for sound on server but not client, I don't know yet -- no speakers in testing area here.
<cberl1> Lemme check...
<pips1> cberl1: oooohh, now that you mention this! I forgot to do 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork' since it wasn't mentioned on that outdated EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes wiki page :-/
<pips1> oh man
<pips1> cberl1: just so you know, from a clean fresh install of edubuntu 6.10, I had the sound on the thin clients working, it's just not working on my dist-upgrade test...
<pips1> so far
<sbalneav> nlindblad: Should, yes
<pips1> hmm. the dpkg-reconfigure didn't fix my thin client sound prob
<sbalneav> Sorry, was getting a coffeee
<pips1> this is taking too much time :-/ I do wonder if it's possible to do an dist-upgrade and actually get everything working as it should :-/
<cberl1> pips1: Found speakers -- testing here
<sbalneav> Should be able to, that's how I did my machine at home.
<sbalneav> dist upgraded main, rebuild chroot.
<pips1> sbalneav: so on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes these are actually two different *options* for doing the same thing, but the second option is recommended, right?
<sbalneav> Yup
<cberl1> Okay, sounds working here after upgrade
<pips1> s/doing the same thing/achieving the same goal/
<cberl1> brb
<sbalneav> A clean rebuild is guarenteed to work.
* pips1 decides to try and do a clean ltsp-client rebuild with the install cd
<pips1> ah, 'sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom' doesn't work with the i386 installer cd from a amd64 client :-/
<pips1> s/amd64 client/amd64 server
<pips1> darn
<sbalneav> Hmm
<pips1> cberl1: good to hear that you got sound to work on your setup :) that means that I am doing something wrong
<pips1> sbalneav: how do I setup apt-cache?
<pips1> kenkarniff: did you ever get your keyboard layout setting to work?
<sbalneav> pips1: apt-get install apt-cacher
<sbalneav> follow the readme :)  You'll just need to do a --proxy on the ltsp-client-build command line.
<sbalneav> And, in fact, you can pre-populate the packages off the install cd
<sbalneav> for ++win
<pips1> pre-populate?
<sbalneav> yep, you can pull the packages off the cd, and add them into the cache
<pips1> ic
<pips1> I now got apt-cacher :)
* pips1 reads man apt-cacher
<sbalneav> Handy little dingus.  I use it a lot.
<pips1> so I setup the edubunt server as the mirror.. since my host is called edubuntu (by default) I can use 'http://proxy.edubuntu:3142' ..?
<pips1> sbalneav: are you using apt-cacher as a daemon?
<sbalneav> yes
<pips1> hmm, how do I get the .deb files extracted from the installer cd (into /var/cache/apt-cacher/import) ?
<pips1> or do I simply copy the packages.gz from the cd into the apt-cacher/import dir?
* pips1 tries
<pips1> that didn't work
<sbalneav> it's documented in the readme
<pips1> I'm trying to follow that, but it seems I'm daft :)
<pips1> there aren't individual .debs on the installer cd... only 'Packages.gz' and a 'Packages' files in the subfolder 'Main' and 'Restricted' ..
<pips1> the import method in the apt-cacher man page only talks about importing .debs though
<sbalneav> Right, well, just copy over all the debs from the cd, and run the import procedure.
<pips1> there *are* debs on the cd? oh
<sbalneav> yeppers!
<sbalneav> think they're in "pool"
<pips1> oh, found them, in lots of subdirs..
<sbalneav> should be able to do something along the lines of:
<sbalneav> find . -name "*.deb" -exec cp {} /path/to/cache \;
<pips1> missing argument to '-exec' .. hm
<pips1> haven't tried -exec option of find yet :)
<pips1> *before
* pips1 reads man find
<pips1> hmm, your command should have worked
<sbalneav> did you put in the "{}"'s?
<pips1> yep
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<pips1> sure thing, the found files are put into those {} ... 
<sbalneav> find . -name "*.deb" -print, lets see if you get some output at least.
<pips1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29388
<pips1> right
<pips1> it *does* find those .debs alright :)
* pips1 does ctrl-c
<pips1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29389
<pips1> I also tried sudo before the cp but that didn't work either
<highvoltage> geez. I'm busy working on a presentation called 'ubuntu and its derivatives' that i'm presenting tomorrow... I don't even mention everything I want to, and it's not done yet, and I'm on 53 slides already :)
<pips1> heh
<pips1> I hope you can publish those slides once you did the presentation :)
<pips1> sbalneav: it would be *great* to get this apt-cacher thing working, it would be very handy to demonstrate the power of easy installation of applications on edubuntu on my laptop edubuntu demo installation...
<sbalneav> Well, have you copied the debs yet?
<pips1> it doesn't work.. the command you suggested terminates with 'find: missing argument to '-exec'" error
<pips1> cf  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29389
<sbalneav> You're missing the \; at the end.
<pips1> argh blublub 
<highvoltage> pips1: I'll publish it, there's some local-specific stuff in there, but it can be cleaned up :)
<pips1> sorry sbalneav and thanks
<cberl1> Arghh!  "Can I see you for a sec?" never means that, does it?
<pips1> heh
<cberl1> pips1:  Any chance in your testing you could see what happens to the local device mounting et al. when you switch to XDMCP?  :)
<sbalneav> localdevices won't work with xdmcp
<sbalneav> at this point
<sbalneav> we'll fix that for feisty
<cberl1> sbalneav: so I've heard, but it does work on regular LTSP, so I was hoping I could get a hand with it...  My only other option is to get pam_mount to play nice with SSH here.
<cberl1> ...and I haven't had any success doing that yet.  Looks like doing the possible is more of an option than the "impossible"...
<sbalneav> Why do you need pam_mount?
<cberl1> sbalneav: to get user home shares and a couple of other shares "standard" to our student setup
<sbalneav> Why not simply mount one directory up?
<cberl1> What do you mean?  These shares are on different servers
<sbalneav> For instance, out home dirs are /usr/legal/home/<username>, so I just mount /usr/legal/home on all boxes.
<sbalneav> s/out/our/
<cberl1> Basically, you mount all homes to one place, then let the users have their home drive from there.  I see.  But we also need access to "clipart", "Apps", "Handin", "Handout", etc. type shares
<cberl1> Dependent on class assignment
<sbalneav> so? Mount them all once.
<cberl1> Lemme send you the share I want to mount and see if you can help elaborate here --not sure I'm following.
<cberl1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29393/
<sbalneav> yuk
<cberl1> So basically, what you're suggesting is to mount //windowsbox/allhomes to one spot, then link to the appropriate home directory -- this is not what I want to use as the actual Linux home directory, but where the user's file are stored (a sort of My Documents).
<sbalneav> so, you've got separate drives like <uid>_clipart instead of "clipart/uid"?
<cberl1> sbalneav: I can't agree more!
<cberl1> sbalneav: I can see where I'd use just "generic" access for things like clipart, but as an example teachers need to have access to put new clipart in, but students don't.
<cberl1> I don't want to have to change the existing Windows structure to implement (way too much of a headache for that) but I want to "simulate" what is available for windows users on the terminal server
<sbalneav> ok, well, what's not working with libpam-mount?  I don't want to get into normalizing your network.
<cberl1> lol
<cberl1> in short, libpam-mount won't mount if I use ldm (and the ssh stuff that it has for a backend).  I can't seem to find the right combination that will enable it.
* sbalneav never ceases to be amazed at the cockamamie windows setups he finds.
<cberl1> ...I'm using winbind auth for all user accounts.
<cberl1> ...autocreating the home directories at login
<cberl1> ... mapping their drives
<cberl1> ... figuring out which groups their in a putting icons on their desktop appropriately
<cberl1> ...and deleting all that when they log out
<cberl1> If I could just access the Active Directory at login, so much of that would be easier!
<cberl1> Okay, hypothetically, if I mapped all homes using just one user (like our generic student account we use for testing), would access right limit me from accessing usera files from userb (assuming Samba ACLs are set properly)?
<sbalneav> You create a home dir every time, then erase it?
<cberl1> sbalneav: yep
<sbalneav> uhhh
<sbalneav> why?
<cberl1> sbalneav: because each home dir is about 20mb; if this project expands to all 3000 computers it's in line for, I don't have that kind of space.
<cberl1> ...and it makes it easier to implement policy -- new policy applies automatically when user homedir is created
<sbalneav> ok, well, why don't you paste what you've got with the pam-mount stuff
<cberl1> Okay, I'll put up the pam.d entries...
<cberl1> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29396/
<cberl1> ...sshd_config is also in there -- read something about needing priviledge separation, but conflicting "opinions"  -- I've tried both on and off
<cberl1> gdm, ssh, etc. are configured to use the "common" elements in the right order (GDM works properly).  SSH complains of not being able to retrieve auth token
* pips1 notes that there are 1180 debs on the installer cd
<sbalneav> cberl1: from the readme
<sbalneav> If you use pam_ldap, pam_winbind, or any other authentication  services
<sbalneav>        that make use of PAM's sufficient keyword then model your configuration
<sbalneav>        file common-pammount on the following:
<sbalneav> 
<sbalneav>                 ...
<sbalneav>                 auth       required   pam_mount.so use_first_pass
<sbalneav>                 session    optional   pam_mount.so use_first_pass
<sbalneav> looks like you're missing the "use_first_pass" parameter
<sbalneav> going to get a sammich, be right back
* pips1 has now imported all i386 debs from the cd into apt-cacher
<cberl1> sbalneav: Okay, I'll test that out here.  Thanks
<cberl1> Not getting any good results from just using remote SSH...  I understand PAM changes take a moment, so I think I'll follow sbalneav's lead and grab a bite!
<sbalneav> back
<pips1> sbalneav: I restarted my server, so now my apt-cacher daemon is running
<pips1> so now I need to adjust the sources.list in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ to include http://edubuntu:3142/archive.ubuntu.com... right?
<pips1> where 'edubuntu' is my host and 3142 is the default port for apt-cacher..
<cberl1> Hmmm...  Now I can't get logins through regular gdm...
<sbalneav> pips1: if you're rebuilding the chroot, there's an option on the commandline to point to the proxy
<pips1> oh
<sbalneav> ltsp-build-client --help
<sbalneav> I beleive
<pips1> ok, I'll check that
<pips1> yes, there is a --mirror option
<cberl1> sbalneav: removing the "use_first_pass" allows me to login again.  Should the two login methods be mutually exclusive?
<cberl1> Seem to recall the ssh-krb5 trick mentioned in the docs, too.
<pips1> sbalneav: I dont' understand how I need to specify the apt-cacher mirror. I thought just using host:default-apt-cacher-port would work? (i.e. edubuntu:3142)?
<pips1> see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29404
<pips1> sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386 --mirror edubuntu:3142
<pips1> I: Retrieving Release
<pips1> E: unknown location edubuntu:3142/dists/edgy/Release
<pips1> error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
<cberl1> pips1: IMHO, a squid server is easier to setup and use -- set up the server to cache the max number of files you'll be downloading, set your http_proxy variable befor eyou start the build and you're golden...
<sbalneav> pips1: I think you've specified the mirror line wrong
<pips1> yes, I think so too, but I don't know how I do need to specificy it :-/
<sbalneav> Well, why not the normal way:
<sbalneav> --mirror http://your.host.name:3142/...
<cberl1> bbs
<cberl1> Awfully quiet in here -- I'll assume that means everyone is busy and things are going well?
<sbalneav> cberl1: get your pam stuff going?
<cberl1> sbalneav: Nope.  
<cberl1> sbalneav: Still getting errors at the ssh level so maybe I have to look into getting ssh to work with winbind first...?
<cberl1> Says something about can't get shadow info
<sbalneav> probably.
<sbalneav> I have no clue about windows stuff.  I've got 170 clients, and all of 'em linux. :)
<cberl1> sbalneav: hiring?  :)
<cberl1> Actually, I take that back -- I love where I work, even if they use Windows everywhere and I'm the only sane person here.
<cberl1> Hey, think I may be on to something here...  Some PAM directives about authtok nullok
<cberl1> Anyone know if pam_pwd was migrated into pam_unix?
<Burgwork> cberl1: -directory might be a good place to talk about pam stuff
<cberl1> Burgwork: Okay, which channel is that exactly?  #directory?
<Burgwork> #ubuntu-directory
<cberl1> Burgwork: Thanks
<cberl1> They're a little less talkative in there... :)
<Burgwork> they were more talkative earlier
<pips1> hmm, the problem seems to be that ltsp-build-client with the --mirror option automatically adds '/dists/edgy/Release' to the (proxy) server path. which doesn't seem to work for the apt-cacher proxy? 
<pips1> sbalneav: have you used apt-cacher with ltsp-build-client before?
<sbalneav> pips1: yup
<sbalneav> arcg, whats the pastebin agian?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<pips1> if I just point my browser at http://edubuntu:3142/ I even get a friendly html page from apt-cacher, with some info about its configuration...
<pips1> ... so the apt-cacher daemon is definitely working alright
<pips1> do I need to configure a specific value for the http_proxy property of apt-cacher perhaps?
<pips1> currently that is set to the default 'proxy.example.com:8080'
<sbalneav> hold on, I'll install it here and tell you the command line.
<sbalneav> I'll just read the man page and figure it out.
<pips1> I tried to do that, but it looks as if I don't understand well enough
<sbalneav> right from the man page:
<sbalneav> ltsp-build-client --mirror http://localhost:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
<sbalneav> I've got it set up on localhost
<sbalneav> change that to whatever your host is you've got it set up on, 
<sbalneav> and the "archive.ubuntu.com" set up to whatever your normal achive is.
<pips1> well, ok, but how did you set it up on localhost?
<sbalneav> apt-get install apt-cacher
<pips1> and that had it set up on localhost by default?!
<sbalneav> then edit /etc/default/apt-cacher , and set AUTOSTART=1
<pips1> ah
* pips1 listens
<sbalneav> then invoke-rc.d apt-cacher start
<sbalneav> it tells you to do that in /usr/share/doc/apt-cacher
<sbalneav> every package you install has docs
<sbalneav> first thing you do, is read them :)
<sbalneav> cd /usr/share/doc/<package-name> :)
<pips1> sorry, sbalneav I did all that and read the docs. but I *didn't* try "localhost" as my host name, since I thought my host name is what I read at my prompt, i.e. sysadmin@edubuntu i.e. my host is 'edubuntu'
<pips1> ?
<sbalneav> sure, that's a hostname too.
<sbalneav> but "localhost" is always valid.
<sbalneav> that's the 127.0.0.1 address.
<sbalneav> i.e. loopback
* pips1 goes and tries 'localhost:3142' instead of 'edubuntu:3142'
<pips1> nah
<pips1> didn't work
<lucasvo> pips1: do you have any firewall running?
<lucasvo> is there another host with the name edubuntu in your network?
<pips1> I do have a firewall, but surely localhost should work, no?
<pips1> it's a hardware firewall ..
<lucasvo> then it should
<sbalneav> so, what does it say, when you run the command exactly as I typed it.
<pips1> oh, actually, no, I disabled the hardware firewall 
<pips1> sbalneav: paste.ubuntu-nl.org/29436
<sbalneav> you didnt do what I asked.
<pips1> I always get the same error "E: Failed getting release file http://whatever-i-tried-as-host:3142/dists/edgy/Release"
<pips1> oops
<pips1> sorry!
<sbalneav> ltsp-build-client --mirror http://localhost:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
* pips1 blushes
<pips1> I'm sorry
<sbalneav> you have to specify the host it's going to get from after the proxy.
<sbalneav> thats how the proxy knows where to get things from
<LaserJock> hola Pete
<pips1> ah, so it gets the information from 'apt-get update' from the archive.ubuntu.com but only uses the local .debs instead of the ones on the remote server
<pips1> sbalneav: now it's rockin' and rolling
<pips1> sorry for not paying attention before
* sbalneav slaps pips1 with a trout
<pips1> hehe
* pips1 ducks
<sbalneav> Now it should proceed fairly fast, as most of the packages are already local.
* pips1 wonders how many Asterix and Obelix fans are out there
<sbalneav> as well, you can point OTHER boxes at that cache, and they'll get the same benefit.
<pips1> it is blazing fast :)
<sbalneav> It's a handy little dingus.
<pips1> this is fab
<pips1> edubuntugirl: sbalneav ++
<pips1> or how does that work again?
<sbalneav> sbalneav++
<pips1> edubuntugirl: sbalneav++
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma sbalneav
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: sbalneav has karma of 3
<pips1> heh
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: karma ogra
<edubuntugirl> sbalneav: ogra has karma of 2
<sbalneav> I win
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> hey, the ltsp-build-client has finished already
* pips1 can't wait to test sound on the client
* pips1 remembers to run sudo dpkg-reconfigure -pcriticla edubuntu-artwork first
<pips1> *-pcritical
<sbalneav> ltsp-update-kernels as well
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> do I need to reboot the server or smth?
<pips1> the thin client was still triggering sound on the server
<pips1> ohhh
<pips1> hold on
* pips1 reboots the client instead
<pips1> now we are talking !!
<pips1> hurrah
<sbalneav> boot-y-licious?
<pips1> rock on!
<pips1> oh sweet eft, with your tantalising locally devices
* pips1 listens to symphony8_beethoven.mp3
* pips1 watches the system monitor on the server
<cbx33> LaserJock, 
<cbx33> HI
<pips1> highvoltage: meet sbalneav my personal hero
<sbalneav> :)
<sbalneav> wheee
<sbalneav> I got a working deskbar plugin that searches apt-cache
<sbalneav> I <3 deskbar
<pips1> you *made* one?
<sbalneav> yup
<sbalneav> in python
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> python rockx
<sbalneav> it's rough.  I'll improve it later.
* pips1 loves apt-cacher more every minute
<pips1> it's so fast
<sbalneav> I've got one that pops up manpages in yelp, one that ssh's to hosts, and now one that shows info from apt-cache :)
<pips1> ok, now i will do the dist-upgrade on my demo laptop and install apt-cacher on that too
<stelis> One for SSH sounds really handy
<stelis> I've got a pile of desktop icons for SSH sessions ATM
<pips1> wow, now it's even possible to play tuxmath on the clients
<pips1> I suppose that's because of the swap memory?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: oh, that rocks dude
<pips1> XKBLAYOUT works
<pips1> \o/
<pips1> is it possible to install several desktop managers (kde, xcfe) on the server and then choose the desktop for your thin client session?
#edubuntu 2006-10-31
<pips1> brb
<sbalneav> Evening all
<pygi> hey ho sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Heya!
<pygi> how are you today? :)
<sbalneav> Doin' ok
<pygi> glad to hear
<sbalneav> Just got about 15 cm of snow here.
<pygi> :P
<pygi> sbalneav: I wouldn't saw if it was snowing even if the snow would cover me :P
<^Ghost2U> anyone gotten dvd playback on "thin" client to work???
* ^Ghost2U is trying, it works fine for user at server, but not at client
* ^Ghost2U has "fat" thin client
<deepz> guys can enybody tell me where will i find a list of supported languages by edubuntu 
* RichEd is still battling to get rid of a sinus head infection and will only be in sporadically
<LaserJock> :(
<highvoltage> sinus problems--
<JonathanFerguson> Just Installed Edubuntu Workstation 6.06.1 - Only Wireless no worky, eventhough it was found during Install.  Point me to the right Wiki Page.
<highvoltage> JonathanFerguson: what wireless card do you have?
<jsgotangco> yohoho and a bottle of rhum
<highvoltage> good morning jsgotangco 
<highvoltage> JonathanFerguson: this may be of help: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported
<JonathanFerguson> When I 'lspci -v | less' I couldn't see anything that could be the Wireless, the sole brand name was Silicon Integrated Systems - I saw this name during install, the other name was Broadcom.
<Burgundavia> broadcom is the chiptset
<Burgundavia> !broadcom
<ubotu> Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | edgy (6.10) is released ! grab it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edgy/ | Upgraders see: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLTSPUpgradeNotes
<pips1> hello edubuntugirl
<edubuntugirl> hi, pips1!
<pips1> very interesting interview with sabdfl on news.com
<cbx33> pips1: got a link?
<pips1> http://news.com.com/A+Linux+start-up+on+the+path+to+profits/2008-1012_3-6130484.html?tag=st.prev
<jsgotangco> yes
<cbx33> hanks pips1 
<jsgotangco> hello RichEd
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi all
<ulinskie> hello Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<jsgotangco> i just discovered today my edubuntu.org forwarder works
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I think it's been working for some months now :)
<jsgotangco> heh i should use it, it has more omphhh factor
<jsgotangco> ubuntu.com bah everyone has it already
<highvoltage> and there's just like.. 7 people with edubuntu ones :)
<jsgotangco> wohooo
<highvoltage> strange, I can't recall seeing anyone using a kubuntu or xubuntu.org email address before
<jsgotangco> imbrandon uses kubuntu.org
<juliux> hi RichEd 
<juliux> jsgotangco, i only use me @ubuntu-de.org e-mail adress
<juliux> i only tested once ubuntu.com and edubuntu.org
<jsgotangco> i haven't set forwarding for our loco domain yet
<dim> hi guys
<dim> http://www.ikarios.com/p377-Edubuntu.html
<dim> for an i386, should i choose desktop or install CD ?
<dim> is there any LiveCD i could buy ?
<highvoltage> desktop is live cd + graphical installer
<highvoltage> install cd is the text mode + upgrade cd
<dim> oh, perfect, thx
<dim> so I need the desktop one
<dim> i want to buy it in order to get descent packaging, some  product  image
<dim> then i offer it to friends having children :)
<highvoltage> great :)
<ogra> dont forget the install CD has the ltsp server bits, the desktop CD hasnt 
<dim> ltsp?
<ogra> (thats why we'll rename4 them to desktop and server CD)
<ogra> (in feisty)
<ogra> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WebHome
<dim> ok, thin clients... i don't need this, it's about transforming windows workstations into kids playground
<dim> thx for the information anyway :)
<jsgotangco> ogra: bah im oldskool
<ogra> oldskool ? 
<jsgotangco> what is ltsp anyways, a server or a desktop or both? heh
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: well, the clients are X servers, and the server is the host...
<highvoltage> :p
<jsgotangco> ok how does it apply in a support sense for dapper?
<dim> ltsp sounds damn useful if you have several old machines and are able to buy one correct server
<sorush20> is there a really comprehensive graph drawing program better than openoffice.org spread sheet.. I want to be able add my data to draw the graph.
<dim> i wouldn't be surprise it's the case in more than one school
<highvoltage> well, the services such as dhcp server, nfs, etc are server software, so they should be supported for 5 years, but if you upgrade your desktop you should update your ltsp too.
<highvoltage> so I would think that ltsp also has just 3 year support cycle.
<dim> sorush20: try koffice ?
<highvoltage> dim: it is for sure
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: yeah imagine ogra fixing it till 2011
<highvoltage> I'm sure there'll be new features even then.
<highvoltage> fancy clustering, shared processor, shared memory over network... geez... lots of things :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: backports?
<highvoltage> possible, although new features are likely to become more and more complicated, and so more complicated to backport.
<jsgotangco> i would think so too, well in 3 years i dont think people will actually install dapper on ltsp
<ogra> jsgotangco, edubuntu server is supported for 3 years as a whole (since ltsp requires a desktop) and the single server bits are supported for 5 years as highvoltage said
<highvoltage> I agree with you jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> gnome 2.14 would look sooo old by then
<ogra> only for you :P
<ogra> for debian users it might still be the latest :P
<highvoltage> for debian it will still look current :) </bad joke, I know>
<ogra> yeah
<highvoltage> ogra: snap :)
<highvoltage> perhaps by then debian will be up to yearly release cycles
<cbx33> hey everybody
<highvoltage> or they'll be based on ubuntu :)
<highvoltage> hey cbx33 
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: they will kill you
<highvoltage> I'll have to find a good spot to hide
<highvoltage> although, tonight I'm giving my talk on ubuntu and its derivitaves so I hope they don't catch me there.
<cbx33> don;t suppose anyone here knows abotu the dest functions for gtk widgets?
<highvoltage> abotu!
<ogra> dest ?
<cbx33> the dragging destination functions
<highvoltage> dyslexia FWT
<cbx33> stuff to do with this http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/gtk-constants.html#gtk-dest-defaults-constants
<cbx33> I know what I'm doing generally....just having trouble getting the data out of the transfer...
<cbx33> supposed to use...   .get_data()
<cbx33> but I don;t know the key that I need to supply
* ^Ghost2U yawns & stretches (Mornin' All)
<^Ghost2U> has anyone gotten dvd playback on "thin" client to work???
<^Ghost2U> is it possible?
<Kamping_Kaiser> maybe on edgy. 
<highvoltage> ^Ghost2U: you might be able to play it in a small window on one thin client, while the disc is in the server, but local dvd playback is dependent on local apps, for which there is a possibility for the next edubuntu version
<^Ghost2U> Kamping_Kaiser: I tried, but totem-xine says it cannot -- already installed codecs, so it works on server
<ogra> it wont work
<ogra> i dont know a player that doesnt access /dev/dvd for dvd playback ...
<highvoltage> geez. warty screenshots these days are hard to find (can't find any with the naked people on)
<ogra> you wont be able to access that from the server to the client ...
<Kamping_Kaiser> highvoltage, you dont get screenshots of that - only photos
<Kamping_Kaiser> the installed artwork was peopless afaik
* Kamping_Kaiser has warty cds
<highvoltage> Kamping_Kaiser: heh
<ogra> apt-get install ubuntu-calendar-* ??
<ogra> its still in the archive if i see it correctly
<Kamping_Kaiser> i have the cds, i didnt keep the apt repo ;O
<highvoltage> warty is older than ubuntu-calendar, I'm not sure if it willbe in there, but I'll check
<jsgotangco> yes give them nekkid art to kiddies
<ogra> highvoltage, warty isnt older ..
<ogra> the calendar packages were there since the RC iso ...
<highvoltage> aaah
<Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*
<jsgotangco> ogra: how does it feel when booting up warty again
<ogra> jsgotangco, dunno, i havent booted my warty laptop  since i moved
<^Ghost2U> ogra: here's the layout-- thin client PC: DVDRW and CDRW, no HDD. server: DVDRW and HDD. client no longer sees local dvd
<ogra> it still sits in its box :)
<ogra> ^Ghost2U, as i said, you dont have access to /dev/dvd on the client from a session ...
<^Ghost2U> ogra: ok.. i guess what I need is a "localized" /dev/dvd for the client... is that where you're going?
<cbx33> sorry I got dc'd
<cbx33> and I had tonnes of lag
<cbx33> any thoughts on my prolbem
<ogra> ^Ghost2U, the desktop session needs full access to the clients /dev/dvd ... 
<ogra> which you simply dont have 
<^Ghost2U> hmmm ... I got you. pity
<^Ghost2U> bbiaf... power outage :P
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders if "Free software in education." as an intrest is to political for a job applying as  a network admin at an educational establishment
<cberlo> Hi folks.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hiu
<willvdl> Kamping_Kaiser, doubt it. Would hate to think that it actually is :|
<Kamping_Kaiser> willvdl, i dont like the thought either, but i am applying for a job, so i'm kinda tentitive to put it in :|
<willvdl> try open learning platforms...
<Kamping_Kaiser> hm... nice.
<Kamping_Kaiser> do you want atribution for that? :P
<willvdl> hmmm, tempting
<Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*
<kenkarniff> pips1: i discovered a workaround on my keymap problems yesterday. apparently, the finnish and swedish keymap is identical. so i tried XKBLAYOUT="fi" in my lst.conf and it worked! somehow "se" is missing or corrupted...
<kenkarniff> now into the next thing... sounds! :/
<pips1> kenkarniff: thanks for the info, I have my Swiss-German keyboard layout working :)
<pips1> I have 
<pips1> XKBRULES=xorg
<pips1> XKBMODEL=pc105
<pips1> XKBLAYOUT=ch
<pips1> XKBVARIANT=de
<lguerra> hi all
* highvoltage wonders what a swiss-german keyboard looks like
<willvdl> highvoltage, it has holes in it
<highvoltage> ah, of course
<highvoltage> and a tap at the side? ;)
<highvoltage> (for the beer)
<highvoltage> sorry that was a bit cheesy.
<pips1> hehe
<willvdl> uhuh
<willvdl> you're punny
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<highvoltage> good mornin' mdz
<mdz> morning
<jsgotangco> oh hi
<sbalneav> Morning all
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: uncle
<jsgotangco> !
<jsgotangco> :D
<sbalneav> Morning jsgotangco
<sbalneav> edubuntugirl: seen ogra
<edubuntugirl> ogra was last seen on #edubuntu 1 hours, 39 minutes and 34 seconds ago, saying: which you simply dont have  [Tue Oct 31 14:58:27 2006] 
<sbalneav> ogra: Hey dude, got time for a quick gnome question?
<sbalneav> I'm going to be re-doing ALL my servers here shortly
<sbalneav> ubuntu + ltsp5
<jsgotangco> nice
<highvoltage> sbalneav: good luck! (meaning it in a good way)
<sbalneav> I don't want to have to go all the way with sabayon
<sbalneav> but I do want to make 2 minor changes to the top gnome panel
<sbalneav> i.e. change a couple icon, and add a couple.
<sbalneav> Wondering how I'd do that.  I'm suspecting some gconf2 magic.
<sbalneav> I guess what I'd like is to make it part of the default template.
<sbalneav> That way, when users log in for the first time, they'll just "get it", and if they fudge something up with their install, then I just blow away .gnome2 and they're back to normal.
<cbx33> sbalneav: hehe I'm just messing around creating some gnome applets ;)
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> morning cbx33 bddebian
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<juliux> highvoltage, http://www.edubuntu.org/ThinClientConfig here is still a bug, the path in the screenshot is wrong
<highvoltage> eek, you told me about that before
<juliux> highvoltage, yes
<juliux> highvoltage, and it shoud be gksudo and not ksudo ;)
<cbx33> hey sbalneav 
<highvoltage> juliux: refresh :)
<juliux> highvoltage, thxs
<juliux> highvoltage, i just created als a new screenshot;)
<highvoltage> juliux: np, I had the screenshot altered a while ago, but there was a period where I didn't have edit right, and forgot about it
<juliux> highvoltage, ah ok
<juliux> ogra, the rangee thinclients are working with edgy;) they need an lts.conf entry about X_HORZSYNC andX_VERTREFRESH 
<ogra> juliux, ah, cool, mind to wiki that ?
<juliux> ogra, is there a special wiki page?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> not yet
* highvoltage thinks a lot of them are special
<juliux> ogra, i only add X_HORZSYNC and  X_VERTREFRESH to the lts.conf
<ogra> well, that should work automatically ... what kind ofg monitor is that ?
<juliux> it is a benq fp72e tft
<ogra> hmm, that should work with ddcprobe
<juliux> but it doesnt
<juliux> not with the rangee one
<juliux> they worked with dapper;)
<ogra> right, sounds like a regression
<sbalneav> Morning ogra
<sbalneav> Man, I REALLY gotta get better at configuring gnome, seeing as how I'm going to be changing my entire organization over to it in a month :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: what's wrong with your gnome configuration?
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> nothing too much
<sbalneav> but...
<sbalneav> 1) I need to replace Firefox with Mozilla (don't ask me why long, boring and annoying story)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: not that I want to preach xfce to you, but have you taken a look at xubuntu's desktop before?
<ogra> lets look into that on thursday ... i'm pretty busy packing my bags here 
<sbalneav> Oh, no rush ogra, I'm just venting
<highvoltage> I suppose you have big fat servers that can run gnome fine.
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: 1) looks really ugly
<ogra> mozilla shouldnt be a prob
<sbalneav> pack away.  I'm going to bring a thin client + flatscreen with me.
<ogra> but dont forget we dont support it 
<sbalneav> 2) install OpenOffice.org 1.1.3 (not ready to convert yet), and change the mime types to point to the old one (not that hard, I don't think).
<ogra> so securtity fixes etc might be a matter of luck
<ogra> same for oo.o 1.3 ....
<sbalneav> Yeah, it's this stupid app we've paid someone to write.
<highvoltage> eesh... OOo 1.1.3 is s toughie. won't they accept a newer 1.1 branch? I think it goes up to 1.1.6?
<sbalneav> I'm not sure how you manage it, but they've written an app that works under mozilla 1.7, but breaks on firefox.
<ogra> ugh
<highvoltage> aah
<sbalneav> Don't EVEN GET ME STARTED!!! it's a sore spot right now :)(
<highvoltage> sbalneav: nice double-chin
<jsgotangco> wahaha
<sbalneav> highvoltage: :)
<sbalneav> Fat finger disease
<sbalneav> We'll move to 2.0 OO.o later this year, however, for the rollout, we'll stick with 1.1.3.
<juliux> ogra, that is how it looks with out the options http://ubuntu.juliux.de/edubuntu.jpg
<highvoltage> ok, I'm going to UCT now to give my talk. i feel very nervous, don't know why though :)
<highvoltage> see you all again later...
<sbalneav> it's just a few minor changes.  So I'm just working through those.
<sbalneav> Good luck!
<sbalneav> Break a leg
<jsgotangco> im gonna sleep
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: good luck!
<highvoltage> thanks sbalneav and jsgotangco 
<ogra> juliux, right, thats a wrong resolution ...
<juliux> ogra, my tft can up to 1280x768,
<juliux> ogra, but i think the grafikchip can only 1024x768
<cberlo> sbalneav: Hey, you there?  Got a quick question about the idea of mounting all users into one directory and sorting things out from there....  :)  If I could achieve this, how do I do the permissions right so any teacher can't mess with another teacher's files, etc.?
<cberlo> Okay, so... anyone else around that might be able to give me some pointers?  I want to mount all Windows users' home directories under one share, them give each user access to their own files just by providing links in their Linux home directory.  Problem I'm encountering so far is that any teacher can access another teacher's files; any student can access any student's files, etc.
<juliux> highvoltage, did you testet xfce with edubuntu?
<ogra> cberlo, have a look at /etc/login.defs (look for UMASK)
<ogra> meh, he's gone
<nixternal> holy cow, 6am meeting tomorrow
<highvoltage> nixternal: which meeting is that? kubuntu?
<LaserJock> hmm, that means 4am for me
<nixternal> edubuntu
<LaserJock> Edubuntu, shesh
<nixternal> i will be sleeping
<nixternal> sawing logs
<highvoltage> ok. that's like 2pm for me :)
<nixternal> heh
<highvoltage> someone whould write up a time machine spec
* LaserJock whacks highvoltage over the head with a copy of the Handbook
<nixternal> lol
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it's only like, 10 pages right?
* highvoltage ducks
<nixternal> gahahahhaa
<nixternal> i think sbalneav and his LTSP portion is larger than 10 pages
<stelis> I'm going to fatten it up some
<highvoltage> I think the LTSP portion is the best part atm.
<stelis> I was going to ask: what should the "Look and Feel" section cover
* highvoltage really needs to get in bed now
<highvoltage> goodnight everyone!
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: goodnight!
<edubuntugirl> goodnight, highvoltage. I'll keep an eye out for the MS spies while you sleep.
<highvoltage> I think that's a good idea. I cracked a joke at MCSE's in my talk tonight.
<LaserJock> edubuntugirl: I see one!
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: excuse me?
<LaserJock> edubuntugirl: over there!
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: excuse me?
<LaserJock> oh wait
<LaserJock> that's just nixternal 
<highvoltage> btw, here's some slides from my talk:
<highvoltage> http://jonathancarter.co.za/files/clug%20talk%20-%20ubuntu%20and%20its%20derivatives.pdf
<highvoltage> there's lots of local-specific stuff in there, but I'll clean it up as a proper ubuntu presentation for the future :)
<nixternal> hey
<sbalneav> What MCSE joke did you tell?
<nixternal> i dont' work for Microsoft anymore..i quit last year
<nixternal> speaking of microsoft, they invited me, and a few others from the Chicago LUG to a free luncheon this week to talk about open source and linux at the McDonalds Headquarters, known to the world as Hamburger U
<sbalneav> heh, naked :)
<sbalneav> Nice pres, highvoltage
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Where'd you get the font?
<nixternal> stelis: sorry, just seen your question...Look and Feel, that might be better answered by either HedgeMage or maybe pygi..I don't want to speculate on it, and it be the wrong idea
<stelis> nixternal: OK
<stelis> Aha
* pygi dances around
<stelis> :)
<LaserJock> uh oh
<LaserJock> what's up pygi?
<pygi> LaserJock: what is it this time? :P
<LaserJock> I'm a little concerned about a dancing pygi
<pygi> LaserJock: ergh!
<LaserJock> I don't want any of my coffee mugs knocked over :-)
<pygi> omg dude :)
<pygi> LaserJock: don't worry ;)
<pygi> LaserJock: libburn can now write -tao ... well, sort of at least ^_^
<LaserJock> excellent
<pygi> oki, gotta dc now :P
<pygi> ok, not really :P
<stelis> pygi: I was going to do a bit more on the Handbook
<pygi> stelis: what is stopping you? :)
<stelis> But wasn't sure what you wanted in the "Look and Feel" section
<pygi> oh, how to customize look, etc
<stelis> Changing the GNOME theme and stuff?
<pygi> yup
<stelis> Hmm
<stelis> I guess I need to see how to switch the GNOME global defaults
<stelis> I was also going to ask was how you format your DocBook?
<stelis> PSGML?
<pygi> stelis: ping nixternal about you :P
<nixternal> xml
<pygi> thank you nixternal :)
<stelis> I noticed that it was nicely idented...
<nixternal> no problemo
<stelis> indented, too
<nixternal> hehe
<stelis> Sorry I meant the PSGML mode for emacs
<stelis> I use nxml-mode
<stelis> I don't think that it formats like that
<sbalneav> Everyone seems to have a blog.
<sbalneav> I don't :(
<sbalneav> And I've no clue how to start one.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: it's easy!
<stelis> sbalneav: WordPress
<LaserJock> even a loser physical chemist like myself can do it ;-)
<sbalneav> apt-cache search wordpress
<sbalneav> Yeah, but where does one HOST the blog? :)
<stelis> If you don't have a server the WordPress do free hosting
<sbalneav> Does anyone here do that?
<LaserJock> yeah, I did
<LaserJock> until I got laserjock.us
<LaserJock> it was great
<crimsun> sbalneav: I don't.
<LaserJock> seems like all the cool people don't have blogs though
<crimsun> depends who "cool" are
<LaserJock> crimsun: do you have a blog?
<crimsun> < crimsun> sbalneav: I don't.
<LaserJock> there you go
<lotusleaf> oo boon too you love me we're a penguin family!
<LaserJock> actually, I kinda like it, although sort of more for personal use
<LaserJock> I don't think most people actually care to read what I write
<LaserJock> but I just like being able to jot things down
<LaserJock> somewhat of a combo between a wiki and a mailing list :-)
<stelis> I was amazed to get my first comment about four hours after I wrote after my first post
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: most blogs are just useless ramblings of parrot people in a desperate attempt to make themselves heard about mundane things like how they ate macaroni and cheese and what it would be like to eat it on the moon and they're bored, before a generation or two after they expire and it's all forgotten.
<stelis> Haven't had any, /since/ mind you
<LaserJock> lotusleaf: but the useful ones do seem useful
<lotusleaf> bloggers: because doing something to improve the world is hard, so I want to talk about how I'm wasting time
<LaserJock> I've gotten a lot of cool info from developer blogs
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: oh, I agree
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: but those are a handful in a world of sand
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> that's why I also like planets
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: yeah there's some rather nice ones
<lotusleaf> why, like planet ubuntu ;)
<LaserJock> so you aren't just searching in a sea of blogs
<LaserJock> they are more "themed"
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: indeed!
<lotusleaf> whiprush: does Ars have any planet blogs?
<LaserJock> so most days I pop by planets for Ubuntu, Debian, Gnome, and KDE
<lotusleaf> LaserJock: planet suse is cool too ;)
<LaserJock> I checked out fedora's and it seem fine, I just don't have much interest there
<lotusleaf> I don't really keep up with RPM based distros anymore
<LaserJock> me neither
<lotusleaf> Ever since warty it's been <3 ubuntu
<whiprush> lotusleaf: there's a planet.arslinux.com, that's about it.
<lotusleaf> anyone else handing out Edubuntu CDs for Halloween?
<lotusleaf> whiprush: yeah? cool thx
<lotusleaf> whiprush: how is the Ars linux wiki going
<whiprush> it's back up actually
<lotusleaf> whiprush: righteous
<whiprush> it was down for like months, heh.
<lotusleaf> whiprush: I've been on Ars since 2001 or 2002, it's one of the best forums on the net IMO
<lotusleaf> whiprush: yeah the last message I saw was that it was down, cool to hear that it's back up
<whiprush> yeah, the linux forums are kind of dying 
<lotusleaf> whiprush: no chance of it going subscribe only though, so that's one pro :)
<whiprush> heh
<lotusleaf> whiprush: it sucked when the soapbox went subscription only, oh well this is offtopic ;P
<LaserJock> ogra: are you up by any chance?
<Joe_SWAU> Hello. :-) I am trying to get a wireless card to connect to my school network.
<Joe_SWAU> It supports WEP natively, but I know I can get it to support WPA in windows. Is there any way I can get it to support WPA in Linux?
<Joe_SWAU> WPA with AES authentication.
<LaserJock> Joe_SWAU: I'm not sure. I would ask #ubuntu
<LaserJock> as there are a lot more people there
<Joe_SWAU> Ok, thanks.
#edubuntu 2006-11-01
<Burgwork> ogra: ping
<ogra> Burgwork, only two minutes ... i'm preparing for my flight ...
<cbx33> hey peeps ... any one know why i just put a sound card into my edgy machine....and now the system is really really laggy, but with no visible processes running....IRQ conflict?
<Burgwork> ogra: no worries
<ogra> (in 5h but i'm packing here)
<cbx33> running a top shows nothing
<cbx33> but the mouse and keyboard are really really laggy
<Burgwork> ogra: just wanted to talk about specs,
<ogra> Burgwork, edubuntu-directory-server ?
<Burgwork> ogra: funnily enough, yes
<ogra> well, its about integrating AD into edubuntu ... whatever solution we'll have we'll have it deeply integrated in edubuntu and will have to have some installer tweaks ...
<ogra> since i'm tired of being told that someone implements it i took a finished solution for the proposal, and invited upstream
<Burgwork> ah
<ogra> if you guys come up with something i can safely release with feisty, fine ... if not i'll go for smbldap, since thats the used solution in many/most edu distros atm
<Burgwork> just wondering about it, 'cause I had never heard of it
<ogra> and it seems to work well with generic admin tools
<ogra> i submitted a spec for edgy already, which mdz marked obsolete because network-authentication was there ...
<Burgwork> the other piece you might want to care about is lat, which might be accepted upstream in GNOME for their admin section
<ogra> for feisty AD integration in edubuntu is one of my declared goals, its achievable with an existing solution 
<ogra> oh, lat was the name ...
<ogra> did you look at edsadmin ?
<Burgwork> well, I am not going to be at MTV, but I am certain ajmitch and wasabi will talk well
<Burgwork> took a peek at the screenshots
<ogra> right, i saw that wasabi will come
<ogra> as well as moquist and dtrask (smbldap upstream)
<cbx33> w00t for the AD integration
<Burgwork> is smblap an entire ldap server
<Burgwork> ?
<cbx33> been wanting that for ages
<cbx33> please please please make it so we can map home dir's too
<ogra> its http://www.majen.net/smbldap/
<cbx33> ogra you're good with hardware....does my problem sound familiar to you? - could the sound card be confilcting with the usb?
<Burgwork> yes, but that page wasn't clear
<ogra> its only setting settings of samba, ldap, pam to act as NT4 AD server ...
<Burgwork> ah, ok
<Burgwork> have you seen easy-ldap-server?
<Burgwork> our spec
<ogra> roughly ... i didnt have much time the last days ...
<Burgwork> ok, no worries
<ogra> i'll look over it if i put details into the e-d-s spec
<Burgwork> I am certain it will all come clear with discussions at MTV
<ogra> (its still empty if you noticed)
<Burgwork> yes
<ogra> right
<Burgwork> easy-ldap-server is pretty light on stuff
<ogra> i just want to be sure to release a solution with feisty 
<Burgwork> indeed
<ogra> i dont care which one as long as its feasable
<ogra> and smbldap simply is *t6he* solution in education atm ...
<ogra> so we'll see where we probably could merge efforts ...i'm sure dtrask and moqist are open for everything
<Burgwork> the -directory people aren't really concentrating on the server side this release
<Burgwork> because we need a rock solid client-side solution first
<ogra> well
<ogra> thats quitre trivial pam changes for a start 
<ogra> *quite
<Burgwork> ajmitch knows the full details, along with wasabi
<ogra> right 
<Burgwork> as there are two somewhat parallel things
<Burgwork> ubuntu <--> ubunt
<Burgwork> and ubuntu <--> AD
<Burgwork> ogra: are you also aware of the work Novell is doing?
<ogra> yep ... but my time is up ...
<Burgwork> no worries
<Burgwork> good flight
<Burgwork> I might see you in MTV
<ogra> i really need to pack now eles i'll sleep to long :)
* ogra crosses fingers Burgwork can make it 
<ogra> bye all
<cbx33> bye ogra
* cbx33 is starting a new project ;)
<Burgwork> cbx33: new project?
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> just a little app
<cbx33> hoping it'll make it into feisty
<Burgwork> what does it do?
<cbx33> oooh...I can't give all that away
* cbx33 wants a working prototype first
<cbx33> then I'll show it to you guys first I promise
<ajmitch> Burgwork: hm?
<Burgwork> ajmitch: just talking about the edubuntu-auth-server stuff
<ajmitch> ok
<sbalneav> Happy Halloweeeeeeeeeeeen
<sbalneav> Halloween apples!
<sbalneav> Trick or Treat!
<sbalneav> Smell my feet!
<sbalneav> Give me something good to eat!
<Burgwork> sbalneav: good evening
* sbalneav passes Burgwork a halloween treat
<Burgwork> yay! halloween
<Burgwork> I got a great halloween treat from work today
<Burgwork> 19" widescreen monitor
<sbalneav> Sweeet
<sbalneav> LaserJock!!!
* sbalneav passes LaserJock a halloween treat with a laser in the middle.
* LaserJock accidentally blows his retina off while chomping on candy
* jsgotangco wakes up
<Burgwork> hey jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> Burgwork: congratulations on your new laptop
<jsgotangco> heh
<Burgwork> indeed. congats on yours
<Burgwork> means I am wipe windows off it
<jsgotangco> really and i was planning to prepare it for vista
<jsgotangco> bwahaha
<jsgotangco> joke
<Burgwork> but I shiny halloween gift from work
<Burgwork> 19" widescreen monitor
<LaserJock> you guys got new laptops?
<nixternal> you guys stink!
<nixternal> my laptop has died once again
<Burgwork> laugh!
<Burgwork> no
<nixternal> don't know if a soldering job will fix it this time
<Burgwork> the testing team laptops are ours now
<nixternal> must be nice
<LaserJock> ah cool
<jsgotangco> nixternal: no our 1 1/2 year old laptops from canonical are now ours
<nixternal> once again, "must be nice" ;)
<nixternal> muhehe
<Burgwork> I am debating buying on of those shiny lenovo thinkpads soonish
<nixternal> 1 1/2 year laptop works though?  my 6yr< laptop doesn't again ;)
<Burgwork> my laptop is too large and I dislike the widescreen
<jsgotangco> nixternal: its pretty old now considering the shiny new core duos
<nixternal> i want a widescreen, but i don't have the widescreen money
<jsgotangco> hehe
<jsgotangco> although i doubt there would be a laptop testing team part 2
<nixternal> i can get a virgin mobile cell phone, about the closes i can get right now ;)
<Burgwork> problem is, my widescreen is only 800pix high
<Burgwork> which makes it hard to see anything
<nixternal> lol, my laptop is that wide ;)
<LaserJock> I was thinking of trying to get a 12 or 13 " for my next one (a long time from now)
<nixternal> i can't complain, my lappy has been cranking out Linux for more than 6 years, and i had the display replaced once, for one that stinks, and i just tried to mend a warped motherboard, and im thinking i may need to do some more mending to it
<Burgwork> back in a flash
<highvoltage> sbalneav: you can get the ubuntu font by installing the ttf-ubuntu-title package
<RichEd> morning all
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday
<RichEd> hi Kamping_Kaiser 
<LaserJock> RichEd!
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<LaserJock> RichEd: finally got my email back
<LaserJock> and read your menu email
<RichEd> ah ... does it make sense ?
<LaserJock> yeah, you want to be able to determine what the menu looks like without having to actually go in there and write it down
<LaserJock> I gotta take a quick shower and then we can discuss it ;-)
<RichEd> thanks ... I am also going though the feature request from the email lists, for discussion at the meeting today
<Kamping_Kaiser> wb
<RichEd> ping ?
<LaserJock> RichEd: back
<LaserJock> RichEd: basically, as you said, it's not straightforward
<LaserJock> the menu is created dynamically from .directory, .menu, and .desktop files
* RichEd is listening
<LaserJock> so there is no one file that give the menu layout
<RichEd> Can I step back a second to clarify what I am trying to achieve ? It may shortcut the discussion.
<LaserJock> sure
<RichEd> I have heard comments often from people that: "when you install windows, all you get is an operating system, but when you install (add any linux brand name here) you get open office and a whole lot of applications" ... so ...
<RichEd> In order to get across what or how much more you get when you install Edubuntu ... ready to use off the CD ... it would be great if we could have a bullet list of applications.
<LaserJock> yep that's what I did for the Edubuntu School Advocacy doc
<LaserJock> I  just went down the menu
<LaserJock> tedious
<RichEd> So from my "naieve outside standpoint" surely there is a list that was compiled (and maintained) by the "person" who selected the applications ?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> the closest you will really get to a list of "stuff" is the seeds
<RichEd> And a process for making changes to the list, that can trigger off a flag to update the promo bullet list ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> if the menu is generated dynamically, cant it be 'recreated' for 'other use then showing'?
<Burgundavia> a list of apps is easy
<LaserJock> Kamping_Kaiser: not to my knowledge
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: but a useful list of apps that is automatically maintained?
<Burgundavia> sure
<RichEd> And if there is currently not a process or list, would it make sense to create and maintain a list, with a process attached.
<Burgundavia> /usr/share/applications/blah.desktop
<Burgundavia> parse anything that is in accessories, games, etc.
<Burgundavia> done
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: sure, but that's assuming you have a default install
<Burgundavia> any package should instlal there
<Burgundavia> or ~/.local/applications/
<LaserJock> right, but we are trying to maintain a list of apps installed by default
<Burgundavia> to what end?
<LaserJock> so you could do it in a chroot or you could go through the list of default packages and get it
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> for that you need something else entirely, assuming you are only talking ubuntu here
<RichEd> To let you know where I am coming from, for a home user of windows, looking for applications on the internet, deciding what looks good, working out what what is freeware, shareware (with time expiry), cripple demo ware, downloading, installing ... all of these are a major schlep factor.
<Burgundavia> right, are you trying to clone installs?
<Burgundavia> I am still lost
<RichEd> If we can say:
<LaserJock> no, we are just trying to say, "Edubuntu comes installed with ..."
<RichEd> [1]  you get this functionality ready to use off the CD
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> the seeds
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I was going to suggest taking the seed and looking for .desktops
<RichEd> [2]  you get this functionality off add/remove applications, with low level knowledge required to get up and running
<Burgundavia> if you want a list of what is installed right now, post install, the packages for a raw list and the .desktop files for an "end user list"
<RichEd> then to me this is a major plus factor
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: seeds are already commented
<Burgundavia> are we talking for marketing materials?
<RichEd> yep ... web site, talks, presentations etc.
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: but the seeds don't say which packages have .desktops
<Burgundavia> if they are enduser apps, they have .desktop files
<LaserJock> right, that's what I said
<Burgundavia> the default loadout is pretty easy to get
<Burgundavia> you can also just eyeball a default install
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> RichEd was just looking for something we could easily maintain
<Kamping_Kaiser> how does add/remove apps do its thing? 
<Burgundavia> our brains, those maintain well
<LaserJock> we *were* going to make a wiki page with that material
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: parses .desktop files
<Kamping_Kaiser> 'its thing' being say 'packages selected' and 'packages available'?
<Burgundavia> there is already one out there
<Burgundavia> Edubuntu does not ship with that many apps
<LaserJock> more then Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> not that many
<LaserJock> no
<Burgundavia> KDE-edu suite, gcompris
<Burgundavia> what else?
<LaserJock> tuxmath
<Burgundavia> right
<LaserJock> tuxpaint
<LaserJock> xaos
<Burgundavia> inkscape? dia?
<LaserJock> denemo and kino I think
<Burgundavia> RichEd: I can probably list off the list of apps edubuntu and ubuntu ship just off the top of my head
<LaserJock> we did have blender I think at one point
<Burgundavia> it is a fairly static list
<Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, can you autolist intoa  wiki? ;)
<Burgundavia> for instance, 6.10 added f-spot and tomboy
<RichEd> Burgundavia: ^^ Kamping_Kaiser 
<Burgundavia> upstream added baobob and invest applet
<RichEd> So Burgundavia does every upstream application make its way into our variant ?
<Burgundavia> largely yes, but I don't think Edubuntu has mono yet
* Kamping_Kaiser mutters yay
<LaserJock> you can get the differences by diffing the seeds
<Burgundavia> now that they are maintained in bzr, it is trivially easy
<LaserJock> yeah, I've done it a few times
<Burgundavia> but honestly, once we get a list once, it will take 5 minutes to prune/add it for each release
<RichEd> Burgundavia: 100% ...
<RichEd> tell you what ... I'll start a list on a wiki page, and then you can let me know what I've missed, and who is responsible for each addition/removal/update, and give suggestions on how we keep the list current
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<RichEd> I would love to have a bullet list of application and functionality:
<RichEd> [1]   this you can do with just the CD
<Burgundavia> you are about to get it
<RichEd> [2]  this you can do if you have an internet connection
<RichEd> etc.
<LaserJock> [2]  is tough
<Kamping_Kaiser> 2 if you have the cd, 3 if you have a net connection wouldnt it? or does hte live cd not support post-install instlaling?
<LaserJock> but I hope by the end of feisty we'll have a better list
<RichEd> LaserJock: if it's tough for us, how tough is it for an end user ?
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: if you have the alternate cd, yes
<LaserJock> RichEd: much more so
<Kamping_Kaiser> but not on the live? :|
<Burgundavia> live is not packages
<LaserJock> no, the live cd doesn't have an .debs
<Burgundavia> live is data, unpacked .debs
<RichEd> Just look at the amount of discussion this "seemingly simple request" has generated.
* Kamping_Kaiser dislikes live mroe and more :(
<Burgundavia> 2 is more like CNR
<Burgundavia> we can, however, prune the lsit out
<Burgundavia> recommend apps in each category
<LaserJock> meta-packages (or takss) for each category
<LaserJock> *tasks
<Burgundavia> kind of overkill, for what is likely one package
<Burgundavia> I am thinking: Video Editing: Kino (installed)
* RichEd comments: If we had an infomercial for Edubuntu, and the person complining the advertisement said to us, what can we include in the "If you install Edubuntu now, not only do you get a great desktop ... but you also get ..." section, it seems we are currently unable to give a normal person an answer. Seems a pity to have great & useful functionality that we are unable to easily describe.
<Burgundavia> once we get them into Edubuntu, we have gnome-app-install
<Burgundavia> RichEd: have you played much with it?
<Kamping_Kaiser> easy describing also helps when you want to contact people to ask what would help them ;)
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: I was thinking more along the lines of edubuntu-science, edubuntu-math, etc.
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> that is slightly tangent to what we are talking about
<LaserJock> I don't think it is necessarily
<RichEd> Burgundavia: mostly productivity work ... not as a "what else can I do suite"
<Burgundavia> RichEd: sorry?
<RichEd> <Burgundavia> RichEd: have you played much with it?
<Burgundavia> right
<RichEd> Okay ... I'm going to slip out of the current discussion, and get the wiki page up. Then we can discuss in a sticky fashion.
<LaserJock> I think if we had groupings of packages into meta packages then [2]  becomes much easier
<LaserJock> there is a very large amount of packages in Universe that people have acces to
<LaserJock> letting people know that is important, IMO
<Burgundavia> help.u.c down for anybody else?
<LaserJock> nope
<Kamping_Kaiser> dns works -> help.ubuntu.com has address 82.211.81.234
<RichEd> LaserJock: also, I think we should have in the list / matrix:
<RichEd> Available in [Dapper-LTS]  [Edgy]  [Feisty] 
<RichEd> Maybe even:
<Burgundavia> RichEd: 6.06, 6.10
<RichEd> Available in [Ubuntu]  [Edubuntu]  [Kubuntu] 
<Burgundavia> the code names are not used
<RichEd> so noted
<Burgundavia> anythin in Ubuntu is also in everything else and vice versa
<Burgundavia> they share the same repos
<RichEd> Burgundavia: you commented above "I don't think edubuntu has mon yet"
<RichEd> mono
<Kamping_Kaiser> imo if you care about gtk/qt/gnome/kde dependancies, you know enough to look it up.
<Burgundavia> ah, by default
<Burgundavia> ubuntu installs mono by default
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: the end user shouldn't care and that is what we have repos for
<Burgundavia> we are recommending best of breed apps
<RichEd> It may be a bit of work to set it up now (which I am prepared to do) but my thinking is "the list can only change if some human being makes a decision" and so if we have a full list, and an update trigger for when that human makes a decision, we can keep it up to date as a matter of process.
<Burgundavia> how big do you imagine this list to be?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, *most* end users dont.
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: we can say "you may also try"
<Burgundavia> if they know what gtk and qt are, they can figure it out
<Kamping_Kaiser> pretty much.
<RichEd> end users don't figure stuff out ... either it hits them across the head in big marketing bite size chunks, or they take the eaist path, which is ignorance, or a route away
<RichEd> easiest
<RichEd> Now although I am not encouraging that sort of consumer behavior, if we want to target the mass audience, we need to cater for them ... which I am prepared to do, alongside the excellent dev work that the tech heads are already providing.
<Burgundavia> the biggest thing we can do is the following: promote the crap out of gnome-app-install
<Burgundavia> talk it up all the time
<Burgundavia> everything is moving deck chairs on the ship
<RichEd> Last comment on this angle, is that the end user has no clue what gnome is, never mind what gnome-app-install is ... but if he sees "hey it comes with a free CAD package I can use to plan the extra room my wife and I want to build for the new kid on the way" then he sees a real world benefit to him.
<Burgundavia> that is why gnome-app-isntall is cunningly diguised as "Add/Remove Applications" on the applications menu
<Burgundavia> hey willvdl
<willvdl> Burgundavia, hey
<RichEd> agreed ... but add/remove applications is only visible once the guy has installed, which brings me back in a full circle to the start if this thread, where can I list what is available !
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<RichEd> hi willvdl 
<willvdl> hi there
<Burgundavia> yes
<willvdl> RichEd, missed the thread but are you referring to a list of (grouped) apps during the install?
<RichEd> a bullet point list of "what you get when you install edubuntu"
<RichEd> "what you can download and install if you have an internet conntection"
<RichEd> application name and functionality ... bite size promotional chunk sfor Joe VeryAverage
<willvdl> ooh, the latter could be a big list :)
<RichEd> on the on hand, that is a drawback, on the other hand it is a "wow, look at al the shit I can get" !
<RichEd> *on the one hand
* willvdl wonders if there are stats for the most downloaded apps in ed/k/ubuntu
* nixternal notes the x as well ;)
<willvdl> point
<nixternal> hehe
<willvdl> I must make a point of looking at xubuntu again since breezy
<RichEd> willvdl: good point ... if we could show those figures, in an Amazon like format, that would be a good thing" people who teach this subject also downloaded these applications"
<willvdl> one would then need a user profile for people to download. not sure if that would happen
<willvdl> unless we grew the comm to advocate certain apps
<RichEd> aim high, start low ... just a thought to keep on radar ... we may be able to get something like this in the user space as a long term target
<LaserJock> well, there is popcon
<willvdl> popcon?
<LaserJock> popularity contest
<LaserJock> popcon.ubuntu.com
<willvdl> ooh. missed that
<LaserJock> I believe it is being used to "rate" packages in gnome-app-install
* RichEd jumps up and down and waves his hands around in the air
<LaserJock> yikes
<RichEd> you see ! we have the bits we need, just dispersed, and all we need is coordination, not creation.
<RichEd> so much of the work has been done ... it's just a (current) pity that we do not have the last mile
<highvoltage> RichEd: I think you hit the nail on the head :)
<RichEd> highvoltage: Often I picture Mike Chiles or Alixe Lowenherz or Trudi in my head, and think about what they need or what would make sense to them in the course of their working day.
<RichEd> We've already got something of huge benefit to them, we just need to be able to wrap it up in a format that rings their bells.
* highvoltage tends to keep the end users and administrators in mind, but to each their own
* RichEd is rebooting
<RichEd> pygi ... hello there
<jsgmobile> Hey
<pygi> hey RichEd 
<RichEd> 'lo jsgmobile
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi jsgmobile 
<jsgmobile> Hey
<jsgmobile> This sucks it has no tab completion
<Kamping_Kaiser> ow, how can you handle it :(
* Kamping_Kaiser wonders if theres a gnome bug open on 'connet to server' failling silently with ssh key issues
<jsgmobile> I just type
<jsgmobile> I have a qwerty layout
<Kamping_Kaiser> jsgmobile, how mobile are you? pda mobile, or laptop mobile?
<jsgmobile> Mobile phone via wlan hehehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*
<Burgundavia> night all
<Kamping_Kaiser> night
<jsgmobile> It seems im using it more for data rather than voice
<RichEd> g'night Burgundavia ...
* RichEd goes off to collect his passport = 1 hour
<Kamping_Kaiser> cool.
<kwak> hi, anybody has a guide on how to authenticate an edubuntu box to Active Directory?
<Kamping_Kaiser> http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/HOWTO:_Configure_Ubuntu_for_Active_Directory_Authentication
<Kamping_Kaiser> novell might be able to help ;)
<kwak> im using k12ltsp 5.0 at the moment, but planning to move to edubuntu. hows the performance of edubuntu compared to fedora 5
<kwak> ive been having problem with fedora.
<Kamping_Kaiser> dont know. i dont use rpm distros
<kwak> i think because of my broadcom Gb NICs. 
<kwak> anybody knows if there's a problem with broadcom NICs in edubuntu?
<kwak> where's teh download page for edubuntu. i went to /download. nothing's there
<Kamping_Kaiser> tried download.edubuntu?
<kwak> yes.
<kwak> none
<RichEd> kwak: let me check for you
<kwak> hi RichEd.
<kwak> i waited for this version (6.10). 
<kwak> hope this will work fine for me now.
<RichEd> kwak: have you tried this http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
<kwak> yes
<RichEd> and what goes wrong or is the problem  ?
<kwak> no link for download
<RichEd> ?? there is a list of country mirrors ??
<kwak> i only see three hyperlinks. 1 release announcement, 2, instructions on how to burn the CD, 3, Edubuntu 6.10: the newest Edubuntu release.
<kwak> the latter is not responding to my click
<kwak> that's weight, i don't have that list
<RichEd> [Edubuntu 6.10, the Newest Edubuntu Release]  that is a heading ... you should also have a list underneath that like this:
<kwak> yeah, i see that, nothing underneath that.
<RichEd> refresh your page please and let me know ... I'll also /msg you the links
<kwak> i did a refresh. still the same
<kwak> hope its not blocked by the government here. 
<Kamping_Kaiser> http://edubuntu.org/Download#edgy has the country list - whats wrong with using one of them?
<kwak> i don't see any reason.
<RichEd> what is the last line you see on your screen  ??
<kwak> Edubuntu 6.10: the newest Edubuntu release If you would like to benefit from the latest Edubu
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: his page is busted
<Kamping_Kaiser> aaah ok. how bizare
<RichEd> kwak ... the page you are seeing is about 20% of the full page ... something is wrong with your connection or proxy I think
<kwak> yeah. i think filtering from the ISP.
<RichEd> I see that you have seen my msg window links ... try those and let me know if you have any problem
<kwak> i tried the torrent file.
<kwak> btw, how's the performance of edubunt 6.10 compare to k12ltsp (fedora 5)
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: re our application conversation earlier, I have found some pages on the wiki, but they are (1) old (2) duplicate and (3) a bit long and confusing ... so it has been attemepted before ...
<RichEd> kwak: 6.10 uses LTSP 5 pre-release ... which has significant benefits in MTSP mode
<RichEd> let me get the release announcement link for you
<Kamping_Kaiser> i find such lists quite hard to make+maintain - i have tried before (not for ubuntu)
<Kamping_Kaiser> which is why i would rather a technical solution
<RichEd> kwak see: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8 [ Features of the integration work for LTSP-5 in Edubuntu include ] 
<kwak> thanks
<kwak> i read that
<kwak> does edubuntu have issues with broadcom NICs
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: My approach is to cobble together by hand, then improve. I find a reality easier to get going forwards than an theoretical that gets bogged down in debate. No comment on you :) just that when people see a "imperfect solution" they usually are quick to help improve it ... which gets a result, with improvements.
<RichEd> So you can think of the auto-update while I build the first step :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> but i feel in this case your finding several not-there-yets displays the flaw in the method :O, unless your the one coming and improving of course :)
<RichEd> kwak: not sure ... the best people to ask are all on their way to a LTSP conference
<kwak> oic.
<kwak> well, i will just try it. always having the same problem with K12ltsp
<RichEd> I think the previous efforts were done by the technical people, who had to focus on techincak solution, which made fixing and updating a nice to have. I come from the opposite end (user focus) so for me it is a more signficant focus, and I will persevere.
<RichEd> jello cbx33 
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah, verry good, verry good. 
* RichEd must now check through the mail lists to see what features have been requested
* Kamping_Kaiser debates html hacking, or writing a questionare
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: back to that team argument ... chew the bone from both ends
<cbx33> hey RichEd 
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: note that I can raise the discussion as an offline UDS topic ... show the page / concept and ask who would be dong stuff that impacts the list.
<RichEd> *doing
* Kamping_Kaiser hasnt kept in touch with uds
<Kamping_Kaiser> does 'offline' mean 'incidental'?
<RichEd> As I said earlier, a human being must be the trigger point for each addition / removal / sideways movement of any application, so if I can get list #1 and then link to trigger people, it must be possible to keep myself updated, even if it is on a nag reminder basis.
<RichEd> offline means I will not get it onto a team discussion with its own room and agenda, but I can ask questions in the corridors and lunch breaks, and take the "lobbying approach"
<Kamping_Kaiser> aah right.
<RichEd> hi juliux ... I've just collected my passport & schwengen ... thanks for your help
<juliux> RichEd, cool
<RichEd> ======= edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 1 hour ==== UDS Topics: Feature Requests and Outside Participation ====
<juliux> RichEd, can you e-mail me your flight details?
<RichEd> sure ... let me grao them for you now ...
<RichEd> *grab
<juliux> RichEd, dresden is a very small airport so you will finde the way out;)
<RichEd> :)
<RichEd> juliux: mail sent
<juliux> thxs
<RichEd> hello ... anyone got some time to help me prepare spec summary from LP for the meeting discussion ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm willing to try
<RichEd> thanks Kamping_Kaiser : there are a bunch of discussion topics / specs on this page:
<RichEd> https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv
<RichEd> Would you be able to go through and note the ones:
<RichEd> 1. assigned to Oliver
<RichEd> 2. which look edubuntu / or education related ?
<RichEd> I'm building this page: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'll note them down for you, then work out step 2
<RichEd> And am myself going through the edubuntu-user & edubuntu-devel emails
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok :)
<RichEd> Thanks ... we just need enough detail to allow us to chat through at the meeting soon. You can cut & paste to a /msg window ? 
<Kamping_Kaiser> sure.
<Kamping_Kaiser> so spec name, and priority?
<RichEd> that should be fine ... we can always get a quick summary as we go through each
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, all the stuff for 'ubuntu directory services' (easy-ldap-server, network-auth), do you want them?
<Kamping_Kaiser> the network auth for example is meantioned in a spec
<RichEd> if you can, please ... I am actually cutting and pasting users requests for this right now !
<juliux> !seen ogra
<ubotu> I last saw ogra (n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra) 11h 43m 50s ago, quiting: "Verlassend"
* Kamping_Kaiser copies into list
<pips1> hi there
<pips1> meeting in 10 mins, right?
<RichEd> hello pips :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, i have 17 specs. i'll pm them to you. 12 are edubuntu related/ltsp. 5 are ubuntu dir.services
<RichEd> yep ... 10 mins
<RichEd> lovely thanks Kamping_Kaiser 
<RichEd> juliux: ogra last seen leaving frankfurt airport and sitting in row 54d ecomony on the way to the us of a
<juliux> RichEd, thanks;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> ok, you have them all. hope i got all the ones that are deemed relevent :)
<juliux> RichEd, only ecomony?
<RichEd> thanks ... that's enough to discuss ... us or others can refine on the page after the meeting 
<Kamping_Kaiser> darn. i just damaged my monitor
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 3 mins  == UDS Topics: Feature Requests and Outside Participation ===
<Kamping_Kaiser> whew, just in time
<juliux> yeah, localdev is workind with my thinclients;)
<juliux> highvoltage, is this a known bug? http://ubuntu.juliux.de/message1.png
<highvoltage> juliux: :)
<juliux> highvoltage, yes or no? :)
<highvoltage> juliux: I can't say that I've seen it before
<juliux> highvoltage, if the message you send via student control isnt log enough the window is to small and you can read the window title
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: scp
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: what?
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: scp is secure copy, or see s-c-p
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: daar's hy
<Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: s-c-p
<edubuntugirl> s-c-p is student-control-panel, bzr archive under people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/, spec under https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TeachersPet
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: google  pysycache
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: Google found 'PySyCache - Application ducative', at http://www.pysycache.org/
<jsgotangco> pips1: you can remove the admin access of the drupal cms for my username, i may not be able to do much even thanks 
<pips1> jsgotangco: ok. I wish you all the best at work and hope to see you back for feisty+1 for sure :)
<pips1> I suspect you'll be around on irc in the mean time...
<jsgotangco> pretty much, i dont do much at night really except hang around on irc
<pips1> heh
<pips1> you might want to consider sleep? 
<jsgotangco> more like get some real work done ;)
<Joe_SWAU> Hello. :-) I was updating, and the laptop lost power. Now it won't boot. What do I need to do? I already tried the rescue boot command from the live cd. It wouldn't do anything just gave me some error.
<bddebian> Howdy
<sbalneav> Morning all
<bddebian> Heya sbalneav
<pygi> hey ho sbalneav 
<sbalneav> hello hello hello
<juliux> has somebody an idea why the sound comes out at my server and not at the client?
<pygi> how is you sbalneav ? :)
<RichEd> hello sbalneav sbalneav sbalneav 
<sbalneav> I'm fine.
<RichEd> sbalneav: are you at the LTSP user conf with ogra ?
<sbalneav> RichEd: I certainly am.
<sbalneav> juliux: is this a fresh install of edubuntu?
<pygi> sbalneav: will we even try to implement that burning on LTSP for feisty or is that dropped?
<juliux> sbalneav, it was an edgy beta installtion
<juliux> sbalneav, localdev is working, only sound is not working
<RichEd> sbalneav: Give ogra him my regards ... and let him know that I will send him an email about our meeting topday and specs / featrures meetings
<sbalneav> juliux: Have you upgraded?
<juliux> sbalneav, yes
<juliux> sbalneav, if ogra is next to you ask him about sound at the rangee thinclients;)
<sbalneav> RichEd: Well, I'm not seeing him until tomorrow.  But I'll let him know.
<juliux> sbalneav, it is a normal edgy now
<sbalneav> juliux: Edgy edubuntu, or edgy ubuntu?
<RichEd> thanks ... there are what looks like a few duplicate specs, so we wanted to get our heads together about an early meeting to combine.
<juliux> sbalneav, edgy edubuntu;)
<sbalneav> is this the user you created at install time, or a newer user?
<sbalneav> You may need to add this user into the audio group
<juliux> sbalneav, it is a second user and he is in the audio group
<sbalneav> pygi: Yes, I'd still like to target for feisty.
<pygi> sbalneav: oki, I'll try to get the new libburn out as soon as I can then
<sbalneav> k
<sbalneav> juliux: ok, hold on, give me a sec..
<juliux> sbalneav, ok
<juliux> hi Yagisan 
<Yagisan> G'day juliux 
<pips1> juliux: I had the same sound prob after my upgrade, but then I re-did 'ltsp-build-client' and now it's working here.
<pips1> juliux: did you see the post to the edubuntu-devel mailing list about this? "sound on clients" 
<juliux> pips1, yes, but it is a fresh edgy installtion
<juliux> pips1, not an upgrade from dapper to edgy
<pips1> ic
<pips1> right, so there is a chance that it might actually be a bug.. hmm
<juliux> perhaps
<juliux> it could be also the thinclient;)
<pips1> righty
<pips1> I haven't tested the fresh server install with the final release, but with an earlier daily build, it was working for me, afaik
<juliux> hm 
<pips1> juliux: where in Germany are you based?
<juliux> pips1, dresden
<juliux> it is in east germany
<pips1> I've only been there once - long time ago, as a kid, with my parents, when it was still DDR
<juliux> i never was in the ddr
<sbalneav> juliux: You said it was a beta upgraded
<sbalneav> now you say it's a fresh install
<sbalneav> which is it?
<juliux> sbalneav, it is a beta upgrade,with fresh install i mean not an upgrade from dapper;)
<sbalneav> ok, hold on, I'm at work, and I'm having to set up a client to test.
<juliux> ok
<pips1> hmm, wouldn't it be worth trying to re-build the client ? that get's me thinking.. how do the upgrades get deployed to the chroot ?
<pips1> s/ugrades/updates
<juliux> pips1, i will give this a try, so at  first delete /opt/lspt/ and then rebuild it?
<juliux> pips1, i found your mail at the devel list will test it
<pips1> to be on the safe side, you might want to mv /opt/ltsp/i386 first, and then re-build
<juliux> ok
<sbalneav> juliux: What's the value of the ESPEAKER environment variable?
<juliux> sbalneav, on the thinclient?
<sbalneav> i.e. open a terminal when you log in on the thin client, and type env | grep ESPEAKER
<sbalneav> Meeting.  be back later.
<juliux> sbalneav, i am rebuilding the chroot at the moment
<juliux> pips1, i get an error during ltsp-build-chroot
<juliux> W: Failure trying to run: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 mount -t proc proc /proc
<juliux> error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
<pips1> :-(
<juliux> that is not good:(
<pips1> did you backup your chroot?
<juliux> yes
<pips1> hmm, I wonder why it failed... I suppose ogra or sbalneav could shed some light on this
<juliux> i will wait
<pips1> also, did you do the ltsp-build-chroot via internet ? or locally, with cd?
<pips1> you can use the installer cd to speed up the build-ltsp-client process... also, sbalneav introduced me to 'apt-cacher' local archive for .debs from the cd
<pips1> to use the cd, you can do ##mount /cdrom && sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///cdrom
<juliux> pips1, via internet but all the packages are allready installed
<juliux> there was not download
<juliux> i can paste the whole output
<juliux> pips1, hang one there was an error 
<juliux> bevore
* pips1 continues weeding through the uds mv specs
<juliux> hi cbx33 
<pygi> hey cbx33 
<cbx33> hey juliux 
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<cbx33> hey mario_ 
<mario_> hey cbx33 
<ajayc> RichEd, ping
<cbx33> anyone here know any japanese?
<pips1> cbx33: my wife does, but she isn't home yet
<cbx33> ok
<ajayc> i just know one word
<ajayc> sayonara
<ajayc> :D
<pips1> cbx33: how much do you need translated? or do you need real-time translation?
<cbx33> I'm trying to learn some with my wife
<pips1> ah
<LaserJock> how did the meeting go?
<pips1> I think it's possible to pick up spoken japanese comparatively easy, but reading and writing is another story
<pips1> LaserJock: we went through all the user requirements from https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu to determine what specs are still missing from MV
<pips1> *for
<LaserJock> ah
* cbx33 is sorry he couldn't make it?
<LaserJock> hi cbx33 
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<cbx33> howz it going dude
<LaserJock> I'm trying to quickly come up with some kinetic equations
<LaserJock> before I go meet with my boss to discuss data fitting
<cbx33> bbl
<LaserJock> pips1: that's quite a lot of info
<pips1> yeah, RichEd will go over it and merge duplicate requests, etc
<juliux> sbalneav, the output from env |grep ESPEAKER ist ESPEAKER=10.10.23.242:16001
<sbalneav> ok
<juliux> sbalneav, that is the ip from the client the server has 10.10.23.254
<juliux> sbalneav, but the sound is still on the server
<sbalneav> So, when you log in, the little chord that sounds comes out on the server too?
<juliux> no
<juliux> if i login there is not the start sound
<sbalneav> Can you go to the menu "System -> Preference -> Sound" please?
<sbalneav> On the first tab, what are the settings?
<juliux> autodetect
<highvoltage> http://xkcd.com/c178.html
<sbalneav> ok, under the "Sounds" tab at the top, is "Enable software mixing (ESD) checked?
<juliux> yes it is enabled
<sbalneav> What happens if you click on the little ">" button next to the login or logout sound.
<juliux> nothing
<juliux> i hear no sound;)
<sbalneav> Do you know sound works at all on that terminal?  I.e. does Linux detect sound on it using the ubuntu live disk?
<juliux> it is a thinclient so i cant test it with a live disk;)
<sbalneav> So, perhaps sound might just not work on that box?
<juliux> orga has the some thinclient and i remeber that he said that sound works
<juliux> s/same/some
<sbalneav> What kind of thin client is it?
<linuxboy> edubuntugirl: liferea
<edubuntugirl> linuxboy: huh?
<juliux> it is a bt100 from fujitsu siemens
<sbalneav> Not familiar with it.
<sbalneav> How many thin clients do you have?
<sbalneav> just the one?
<juliux> i have three
<juliux> i will test an other one
<sbalneav> it could be 4 things:
<sbalneav> 1) That PARTICULAR thin client doesn't work.
<sbalneav> 2) That TYPE of thin client doesn't work
<sbalneav> 3) Theres a user setup issue with that user
<sbalneav> 4) theres a bug
<juliux> at 3) i test it also with my admin account
<juliux> sbalneav, is there a list of supportet audio chips?
<sbalneav> So, does it work work with the admin account?
<juliux> no it is also not working with my admin account
<sbalneav> Then it's either 1 or 2
<juliux> ok 
<juliux> sbalneav, it is a ad1881a audio chip
<sbalneav> I'm not familiar with it.
<sbalneav> I don't know if it works or not.
<juliux> ok, thxs for your help
<sbalneav> Do you have a different kind of thin client there, like an old PC to test with?
<juliux> no
<juliux> i have only my notebook and thinclients
<juliux> sbalneav, the card is supported by the snd_intel8x0 module
<juliux> sbalneav, it is also loaded
<juliux> hm there is no esd running is that ok?
<sbalneav> on the client?
<juliux> i havent checked
<sbalneav> Did you end up rebuilding the ltsp chroot?
<sbalneav> /opt/ltsp?
<juliux> yes
<juliux> there is no esd running on the thinclient
<juliux> is that ok?
<pips1> does anyone know how long each BOF session is at UDS Mountain View? (how many minutes per BOF session) ?
<sbalneav> Hmm, there should be an esd running on the client.
<sbalneav> What's the contents of your /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
<sbalneav> ?
<sbalneav> pips1: They're usually an hour
<pips1> sbalneav: and what is the break time in-between?
<sbalneav> like, maybe, 5 minutes.
<sbalneav> It's a full 8-10 hour day.
<pips1> oki, ic.
<sbalneav> you work.
<juliux> sbalneav, http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/4815/
<sbalneav> haaaaard.
<juliux> sbalneav, if i type in esd i get an error that no card is found;)
<pips1> sbalneav: I assume you are a hard-working fella ;-) what is your BOF average per day?
<pips1> I mean, how did it pan out in the past... how many BOFs did you manage to attend on a day?
<pips1> 6? or more like 3-4?
<sorush20> hi anyone here hase qtiplot? 
<LaserJock> hmm, not right now
<LaserJock> what's up?
<sorush20> well I just would like to compile it and use it .. but we have to buy the .deb for some reason.. 
<sorush20> don't know if that is allowed.. 
<LaserJock> what do you mean by "allowed"
<LaserJock> hmm, that is interesting
<LaserJock> sorush20: well, you can download the source and compile
<sorush20> I have a problem
<sorush20> the dependency is missing and I'm trying to download and install it.. 
<LaserJock> hmm, it is kinda messy looking
<sorush20> I don't know what do here. the installation section is not really that helpful
<LaserJock> do you have to have qtiplot?
<sorush20> is there anything else that is similar.. I just want a really editable graph plotter.. 
<LaserJock> sorush20: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuScientists#head-dd371d9b9785b37df7c9a011fd3e52cc9eba6e64
<LaserJock> I'd try maybe labplot and scigraphica if you want an origin clone
<LaserJock> gnuplot is a good command line standby
<LaserJock> grace seems decent as well
<LaserJock> those are all in the Ubuntu repositories
<sorush20> LaserJock: thanks that was great.. 
<LaserJock> sorush20: no problem
<sorush20> linux rocks.. ms excel is gay
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I've never been fond of Excel, even in Windows
<LaserJock> ogra: are you here? :-)
<ogra> yep
<ogra> flew over reno some hours ago :)
<LaserJock> \o/
<ogra> didnt you see me passing at the sky ? 
<LaserJock> if I had known I'd have waved
<ogra> heh
<ogra> its wonderful
<ogra>  could stay for a month more  :)
<LaserJock> ogra: I was going to ask you about Edubuntu merges for Feisty
<ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ ls merges
<ogra> denemo  fuse  nbd      sysklogd  tuxpaint  xaos
<ogra> dhcp3   kino  portmap  tuxmath   tuxtype   xscreensaver
<ogra> thats what i currently have on my list
<LaserJock> I was wondering if I could work on some of them and have you sponsor the uploads
<ogra> sure
<ogra> but tell me what you picked so we dont do duplicate work
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> I'm guessing we won't be actually doing the uploads for the edu stuff  until after UDS
<ogra> right
<ogra> i'll see that i get my specs fleshed out the next days and get all the third arty ltsp code merged 
<LaserJock> yeah, I saw there was a whole lot of material from the meeting this morning
<ogra> which meeting ?
<ogra> edubuntu ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<ogra> ah
<LaserJock> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu
<ogra> i'm just starting to catch up on mails
<ogra> ergh
<ogra> why is *all* ubuntu network auth stuff in that list ??
<Kamping_Kaiser> ogra, RichEd asked me to put together a list of stuff that looked relevent to edubuntu - i added the 5 ubuntu dir. services items because i saw them meantioned in various edubuntu specs
<ogra> i did create the edubuntu-network-auth-{client,server} specs on purpose to avoid that 
<Kamping_Kaiser> just before the meeting
* Kamping_Kaiser heads out. gotta run.
<Burgwork> ogra: did you create those specs before the -directory team existed>
<ogra> Burgwork, i think so, yes
<ogra> does that matter
<Burgwork> not really
<ogra> they are totally different ... the edubuntu specs are specific to a setup while the ubuntu specs will cover only functionallity
<Burgwork> confused. I dont understand what you mean
<ogra> Burgwork, the edubuntu specs are all about reconfigured services
<ogra> while the ubuntu specs are abut having the services integrated at all
<ogra> *preconfigured
<Burgwork> ah, right
<Burgwork> I think there is a place for a common spec, however
<ogra> we will only take existing packges and make override configs or something in /etc/edubuntu-directory-server if the server side in ubuntu isnt done in feisty 
<ogra> like we do with ltsp for the dhcd or syslog configs ...
<ogra> *dhcpd
<ogra> so we wont tweak the packages but allow overriding their configs if e-d-s is installed ...
<ogra> and i was planning to look inot the smbldap configs 
<ogra> if ubuntu doesnt attack the server side yet
<ogra> you will be able to get a huge amount of feedback from the edubuntu users 
<Burgwork> yep
<Burgwork> just want to make certain this is not "right hand, meet left hand" :)
<ogra> nah, we'll meet anyway
<ogra> and i'll try to attend as much of the network auth specs as i can beside the ltsp work
<ogra> network auth is needed by *many* of the new ltsp features 
<ogra> i cant implement them without soemthing in place
<Burgwork> indeed
<Burgwork> I am about to try and get Userful to support LTSP alongside our other stuff
<ogra> i.e. ful diskless workstations (fat clients) 
<ogra> and local apps
<ogra> the latter is the only way to handle multimedia correctly ...
* pips1 listens in to the interesting conversation
<pips1> :)
<pips1> ogra: RichEd said he will work on refining that wiki page.. at the moment, it is just a rough cut-and-paste job from user requests that came in through mailing list...
* ogra has a hard time to keep his eyes open :)
<ogra> yep i see that
<ogra> we cant do anything about stuff thats not specced 
<pips1> I can imagine, I need to get some sleep now myself.. I'm looking forward to see you in MTV soon
<ogra> as i say sinc weeks :) we need at least the specs registered in LP
<pips1> hmm. I have been thinking about spec that are still missing... 
<ogra> there are many things on that wikipage that are intresting, but nobody ever wrote a spec for them
<ogra> i have only doen the obvious ones that i know of ... 
<pips1> there are some specs that edubuntu community members (laserjock, highvoltage, ...) wrote, but they haven't appeared on the MTV spec listing yet..
<ogra> all the answers on RichEd's ML call would have needed speccing ... bu i told you guys that things without spec will drop on the floor 
<pips1> :-/
<ogra> https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+specs has many of them 
<pips1> maybe we can create some rough specs that will cater for the remaining stuff...
<ogra> ltsp-fat-clients, edubuntu-menus-completion etc
<ogra> i'm not sure thats possible this late ... but we'll see having at least a non fleshed out version in LP for each of them would be a start
<pips1> well, all the specs under point (1) on RichEd's wiki page are specs that appear on the MTV spec listing... but there are some more specs done, that don't even appear yet on the MTV listing... who determines what get's onto the MTV listing?
<ogra> all the answers to his ML call arent specced
<pips1> afaik, RichEd will work on that tomorrow
<ogra> the ones that are in yet are either old ones, or ones that i created without any content yet or they are successive specs fro something we started in edgy i.e. LaserJocks menu stuff
<ogra> dont forget we'll only have five days
<pips1> I have come up with some vague "catch-all" spec titles, e.g. 
<pips1> #
<pips1> Edubuntu-Desktop-Applications
<pips1> #
<pips1> Edubuntu-Web-Applications
<pips1> #
<ogra> each spec will have at least three BOF sessions
<pips1> Ubuntu-Education-Content
<ogra> of 1h each
<pips1> wow
<ogra> after that the drafting and reviewing must be done as well
<pips1> I didn't know there were three sessions per spec
<ogra> so more than 10 specs isnt realistic for us (edubuntu) ...
<pips1> what is the current count?
<ogra> well, there arent strictly three sessions per spec
<ogra> but thast a comon number guessed from experience from the last conferences
<ogra> *common
<pips1> ogra: how many spec have already been submitted in LP for Edubuntu?
<pips1> *specs
<ogra> all you see on the link i gave above
<ogra> i should be subscribed to all of them https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs
<pips1> you are talking about the (uds-mtv/+specs page
<pips1> right
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> for me there are two *majorly important*  things we'll need in feisty ... one is network auth (server *and* client side) and the other is the ltsp gui tool (even mdz will disagree here and mark it a low prio again) since thats an upstream requirement we defined at the ltsp hackfest
<pips1> well, I had a look at the "personal spec listings", by some of our "usual suspects" (you, rodarvus, sbalneav, highvoltage, laserjock, cbx33), but I'm confused about how relevant those are...
<ogra> relevance is only provided by the uds-mtv page
<ogra> only specs listed there are accepted
<pips1> right
<pips1> so is it mainly mdz and sabdfl deciding?
<ogra> (and i'm not sure the ones with "Undefined" count at all)
<pips1> ic
<ogra> thats how it was before ... dunno if they will follow that practice this time
<pips1> during our meeting, RichEd went through all the user submitted requirements and asked the meeting participants for input.. I'm sure he will compile a list of spec to fill gaps.
<pips1> ... we will see how it goes.
<LaserJock> we have way to many specs for one UDS
<pips1> heh
<ogra> LaserJock, totally
<pips1> I see the following topics that would benefit from discussion:
<pips1> * Bundling-Edubuntu
<pips1>   * Edubuntu "bundle" for Seconday Schools
<pips1>   * Edubuntu "bundle" for Universities
<pips1> * Edubuntu-Product-and-Add-On
<pips1> * Ubuntu-Education-Network-Integration
<pips1> * Edubuntu-Desktop-Applications
<pips1> * Edubuntu-Web-Applications
<pips1> * Ubuntu-Education-Content
<ogra> that can bite us very bad .... we'll need proper priorization
<LaserJock> ogra: it might be nice to have our own set of specs
<ogra> dont we have that ?
<ogra> we did in edgy ...
<pips1> nope, not in launchpad
<pips1> afaik
<LaserJock> well, I was thinking a wiki page
<LaserJock> I mean, we need to have a list of ideas
<pips1> LaserJock: the wiki page that was discussed today will be reduced again to a concise list
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I guess that's what I'm thinking of
<ogra> pips1, my personal subscription list had *all* edubuntu specs 
<pips1> RichEd said he will do it...
<ogra> thats how i handled it in breezy, dapper and edgy 
<pips1> ogra: ic
<ogra> if you dont thing that suffices, set up something else
<ogra> we had a wikipage like the ne you guys made for edgy as well ... 
<ogra> so thats the right wasy
<ogra> *way
<LaserJock> ogra: that's great for official specs and UDS
<pips1> but now there are more developers... I'm thinking rodarvus, sbalneav, laser, cbx33..
<ogra> but we need to thin out the list
<ogra> its way to much
<ogra> pips1, rodarvus is 100% busy with his other stuff
<LaserJock> we need UDS specs and we need just general specs
<ogra> cbx33 starts new projects over and over atm 
<pips1> heh
<LaserJock> :-)
<ogra> i dotn see him finishing the SCP spec
<LaserJock> well, that's the thing
<ogra> laser will only have limited time i guess ... and sbalneav must care for ltsp upstream 
<ogra> so there is not really *much more* yet
<pips1> right..
<LaserJock> it's one thing for somebody to write a spec, it's entirely different to get somebody to implement it
<pips1> yeah
<ogra> i'm hpoing to get dtrask, eharrison and moquist abouard during the conf ...
<ogra> exactly
<ogra> but you need people familiar with the topic to discuss them
<pips1> ^^ ^ ltsp devs?
<ogra> smbldap upstream and k12 devs
<pips1> ah
<LaserJock> but on the other hand, it is useful to have a list of idea/specs for community people to look at, work on, etc.
<pips1> LaserJock: I think I understand what you are trying to get to. sort of (A) "big tasks" listing for UDS and the "core devs"  and (B) "small concrete tasks" for community devs and contributors
<LaserJock> more or less
<sorush20> I@am unable to killall scigraphica
<LaserJock> if we fill LP and the UDS spec lists with *everything* it's a mess
<pips1> hmm, yes
<LaserJock> some things don't really need a UDS discussion
#edubuntu 2006-11-02
<pips1> there are lots of "atomic" specs in LP and that's very confusing... one spends too much time simply opening all those "mini"-spec pages
<pips1> agreed
<pips1> ogra: what do you think about Burgwork suggestion for a "bridge"- or common spec for that whole network-integration/identity management stuff (ldap, auth, ...) ?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> but lets do that at UDS
<ogra> if wE're all in one room to discuss it
<ogra> lets not clutter LP more than it needs in advance
<Burgwork> indeed
<Burgwork> why I am cursing my fracking employer right now
<pips1> but you said that without a spec, meetings don't happen, because the schedule is already booked out?
<Burgwork> no, the schedule can flex
<pips1> ah
<pips1> good to hear that :)
<Burgwork> if you meet about something, and that breaks into three or four specs, or specs get merge, the schedule changes
<pips1> ok, I shall not worry too much
<Burgwork> only the first day is decided ahead of time
<pips1> ic
<pips1> got to get some sleep now, cu folks
<lguerra> si, si lo veo
<lguerra> sorry, 
<sbalneav> Evening all
<lotusleaf> h3//o
<LaserJock> sbalneav!
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<eSeong> anyone here could get dlink dwl-122 usb to work on ubuntu ?
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<kwak> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi kwak
<kwak> im installing my edubuntu test machine today on a virtual server.
<RichEd> good luck :)
<kwak> i wanted to test it first before removing k12
<eSeong> RichEd.. i install edubunbtu done..
<eSeong> but i could not interfere with my adapter :(
<kwak> im new to debian. you know any guide in using edubuntu.
<kwak> eSeong, what do you mean?
<RichEd> kwak: there is a document page ... let me find the link'
<kwak> interfere? interface?
<eSeong> interface**
* eSeong sorry for my broken english.
<kwak> you can't configure the network adapters you mean?
<eSeong> they never support.
<eSeong> my dlink dwl-122 :(
<RichEd> kwak: http://www.edubuntu.org/Documentation
<Kamping_Kaiser> eSeong, i have a dwl-something, but i lent it to a mate, so i'm not sure what the exact number is. it doesnt work in dapper, it might in edgy though
<kwak> thanks RichEd
<RichEd> LaserJock: you alive atm ?
<LaserJock> why yes
<RichEd> just in another channel :)
<RichEd> dof question ... I am busy registering my attendance at UDS and I see that everyone's availability date starts with 2006-11-06 ... what happened to sunday ?
<LaserJock> it's UTC time
<RichEd> i thought about that but 09.00hrs on Sunday 5th November (local time) is 09:00+8:00 to get to UTC which is still in Sunday ?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<RichEd> okay ... not serious ... just was wondering
<LaserJock> oh, well I think I did put in that I would get there Saturday night maybe
<RichEd> tx.
<LaserJock> I just kinda did what everybody else was doing ;-)
<RichEd> LaserJock: how and where do your dynamic menus fit into feisty and UDS ... got time for a quick chat ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> I registered a spec for Mt. View
<LaserJock> but I'm only going to be at Mt. View Sunday and Monday
<LaserJock> and it's set at Medium priority
<LaserJock> so I'm not sure how to handle that yet
<LaserJock> RichEd: what do you want to know?
<RichEd> LaserJock: no problems re date limitations ... pips1 also will be there until tuesday ... so we will try to get our discussions set for early days
<RichEd> Well we think (in the meeting discussion yesterday) that your dynamic menus kind of overlap to some degree with our need for Edubuntu Secondary and Edubuntu University "editions" ... so wanted to get the discussions overlapping as well
<LaserJock> yes, in fact I'm very interested in all of those
<RichEd> right ... let me see how I can fit these together in some way ... will chat more later
<LaserJock> I'm also interested in expanding the menu stuff into general user management
<LaserJock> I don't think the current Gnome user management tools are very friendly for school admins
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: user management is an interesting one
<Burgundavia> config management in general
<LaserJock> yeah
<Burgundavia> this landscape-client stuff is what I am sort of waiting for
<LaserJock> there are all these bits and pieces
<Burgundavia> the key piece is we need a unified effort
<LaserJock> but we need to pull things together
<LaserJock> I've wondered if we should make SCP plugins
<Burgundavia> scp is one interesting piece
<Burgundavia> scp needs to work across a network
<Burgundavia> made a more general admin tool
<LaserJock> yeah, I just don't know what exactly to do
<LaserJock> seems like we need to make sure we have the underlying systems and then interface that to SCP or something
<Burgundavia> here is part of what you need to do
<Burgundavia> tell Mark to get the landscape-client stuff on the table
<LaserJock> hmm
<Burgundavia> until then, it is all talk, becuase there is no sane reason to duplicate effort
<Burgundavia> and landscape client is going to be installed on every ubuntu machine out there
<Burgundavia> dapper, edgy, and onwards
<LaserJock> when? this is the first I've heard of it
<Burgundavia> there is an empty package in dapper and edgy
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> but is there code?
<LaserJock> is it more then  vapor-ware?
<Burgundavia> yes, within Cancomical towers
<LaserJock> yeah, well
<Burgundavia> but do you see the issue?
<Burgundavia> any attempt to create a client and get it into Ubuntu is going to fail
<LaserJock> why?
<Burgundavia> by default, at any rate
<Burgundavia> however, threatening to create such a client would probably force Mark to get on with it
<LaserJock> well, I wasn't thinking of anything like that I don't think
<LaserJock> I just want tools that a teacher or admin can use to manage Edubuntu installs
<Burgundavia> but once you start talking about changing things on a mass scale you need a client
<LaserJock> I'm thinking user control and dynamic menus
<LaserJock> but I see where having that sort of thing will be good in the future
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> but you need an agent on the client side to do stuff, in the case of user control
<LaserJock> why?
<LaserJock> it all happens on the same machine
<LaserJock> it's an LTSP server
<Kamping_Kaiser> one thing i think would be a help is an easy way to make preseeded cds. you can make things as easy as you want, but if you cant easily do a mass deplyment the way you need, its a bit useless :|
<Burgundavia> what about large deployments with multiple servers?
<Burgundavia> what about fat clients?
<LaserJock> we aren't there yet
<Burgundavia> yes, actually, we are
<LaserJock> I mean, it'd be nice
<Burgundavia> people are deploying them, therefor we need to consider those use cases
<LaserJock> sure
<Burgundavia> think outside Edubuntu for a second
<LaserJock> I know I know
<Burgundavia> I have 3 machines at work, with 7 users
<Burgundavia> I want a single control panel for all those machines
<LaserJock> but we can dream all we want, but we have to have people to implement this stuff
<LaserJock> what can we realistically do in Feisty
<Burgundavia> well, depends what Mark does with landscape
<Burgundavia> it is quite doable, assuming he plays along
<LaserJock> I'm not going to rely on Mark for anything
<nixternal> haven't they been working on Landscape now for like 6 months supposedly?
<Burgundavia> landscape has a complete server side as well
<nixternal> is it another LP project in the making?
<Burgundavia> basically
<nixternal> kept behind locked doors with the possibility of it being released before the polar ice caps melt and we all drown
<Burgundavia> the server is going to be closed source
<Burgundavia> but the client, miracles of miracles, must be shipped with Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> thus it must be open source
<nixternal> im not liking the sound of "closed source" at all
<Burgundavia> meh
* Kamping_Kaiser agrees with nixternal on this
<nixternal> it goes against the philosophy...whats next?
<Burgundavia> I could care less about the server side
<Burgundavia> I just want to see the client and its code
<nixternal> svn diff philosophy.orig philosophy.new > closed_source_muhahah.diff
<Burgundavia> the community can replicate teh server side quite easily
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: sure, if we have a client then that's cool
<Burgundavia> I know that if we go and do the client, we are not going to get it accepted by default
<nixternal> replicating == duplicating == time lost on other important projects
<nixternal> wow, that was intuative
<LaserJock> sure
<nixternal> maybe i should think next time before i speak
<Burgundavia> I suggest you gusy all email mark and ask him
<Burgundavia> lay it out, exactly which specs are being slowed down because of it
<Kamping_Kaiser> nixternal, yes, it also puts you competeing with yourself in this instance
<nixternal> haha
<LaserJock>  Burgundavia: well, I'm not in a place to do that
<nixternal> no doubt, as i duplicated myself there ;)
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: yes, yes you are
<Kamping_Kaiser> nix ;)
<Burgundavia> LaserJock: if you are planning to work on scp in Feisty, you need to tell Mark you work is being slowed down because of his inaction
<Burgundavia> I think Mark is thinking like a magician on this one: The grand flourish of the release
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser / Burgundavia / nixternal : while I don't pretend to 100% understand all of what you are discussing above :) there is a lot of overlap with the discussion in the meeting yesterday stemming from feature requests from posts to the edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-user mailing list
<highvoltage> ugh @ landscape
<RichEd> there is a page in progress here with the user requests extracted into one place: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UdsMtvEdubuntu
<RichEd> I am working through the meeting changes to the page now
<RichEd> We thought that quite a few of the requests that originated as "school requests" applied to ubuntu environments and requirements as well ... like remote takeover of workstations etc.
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: why so? the closed source nature of it?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: yes. launchpad is already causing me some... well, 'irritation', for lack of better word
<Burgundavia> right
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: I noticed landscape in the archives a while back and asked on -devel, but no one wanted to tell me much about it :/
<Burgundavia> I don't pretend to understand Mark, but I think I know why he is doing this
<Burgundavia> he loves the "grand unveil"
<highvoltage> he does.
<Burgundavia> it worked well with Ubuntu, because there was no community
<Burgundavia> now there is and we are getting annoyed
<highvoltage> but it's against the release early and often nature of Ubuntu
<Burgundavia> yes, yes it is
<highvoltage> if it's good and worthwhile, debian will rewrite it... eventually... so there is some hope at least
<Burgundavia> right
<highvoltage> it probably sounds silly, and I'm not sure if I should mention this yet...
<RichEd> highvoltage: that debian comment brings up a question I had in mind ... in general, how do we stay in touch with what is being developed upstream and which will become available to us, to avoid duplicate dev effort. does it just rely on informal communication ?
<highvoltage> but for tuxlab, we want some of the launchpad infrastructure, but I don't want to force a proprietary product on our users
<highvoltage> so I thought of rewriting the launchpad functionality that we need in something like django. we would be able to have most of what we need in a mini-launchpad.
<highvoltage> RichEd: if you make the upstream landscape proprietary, you can't avoid duplication, really
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: the big thing here is we don't really have any developers for this stuff
<LaserJock> we're a distro and I'm not sure we can do a lot of upstream development kind of things
<Burgundavia> we are upstream for managment software
<LaserJock> but should we be?
<Burgundavia> for now, yes
<LaserJock> ogra can't do everything?
<Burgundavia> it is more a peer to peer thing
<LaserJock> s/?//
<pygi> well, we have community to do some of upstream products which then can be merged into several distros
<pygi> not only Ubuntu family 
<RichEd> I meant more along the lines of the "request" yesterday for us to add a feature to allow Mac and Win to log onto and into a *buntu domain and use resources in an authenticated manner. We debated that this may be developed by debian or a 3rd party (if there was a percieved need)
<Burgundavia> RichEd: the other way around is more interesting
<Burgundavia> ubuntu to AD
<Burgundavia> as windows to Ubuntu requires a server
<RichEd> Burgundavia: there is a directory group & strong focus on this for MV
<Burgundavia> I am part of the founding group of people on the ubuntu-directory team
<Burgundavia> we are not thinking server right now
<RichEd> So, I am not really homing in on the feature, but the concept ... how do we know what is being done by others (which we can use) when we plan new developments ?
<Burgundavia> on the ldap server side, there are two interesting things
<Burgundavia> samba4 and FDS
<highvoltage> RichEd: I read slashdot and debian times, that helps for me :)
<RichEd> highvoltage: and I presume we have debian folk at our UDS ? 
<highvoltage> RichEd: or I keep up to date by aggregating a whole bunch of stuff... http://technews.jonathancarter.co.za
<Burgundavia> hmm, how do you email Mark and see "Stop being a twat and give us code", without doing that
<highvoltage> RichEd: yes
<Burgundavia> RichEd: that isn't debian. Samba4 is mostly Novell and FDS is Fedora Directory Server
<Burgundavia> when I say upstream, I mean a lot more than debian
<RichEd> Regarding the need for developer bandwidth ... there is some possible relief in sight, but I'll only explain on the condition that this does not start rampant speculation or heated feelings.
<LaserJock> I know Ubuntu in general has a fair amount of development power, but I think for Feisty we will have about 1 full time developer's worth of development in Edubuntu
<pygi> LaserJock: +1 at least :)
<LaserJock> I'm looking at all the specs we have and I'm just not seeing how we are going to be able to make much of a dent in it
<LaserJock> pygi: I doubt it
<pygi> LaserJock: hm, I don't :)
<RichEd> => Canonical is a project partner in an EU sponsored project called Edulinux. We are contracted in for a whack of developement days, to produce a Education Server and related tools.
<Burgundavia> our specs will get brutally winnowed down
<pygi> Burgundavia: you are too pessimistic
<pygi> ^_^
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: right, which will mean most of this stuff goes by the wayside for now
<RichEd> => Oliver and I go to the first workshop in the last week of November (in Lodz in Poland)
<Burgundavia> pygi: I am a realist
<Burgundavia> by "education server", what does that mean?
<pygi> Burgundavia: perhaps, but reality estimation are here to be broken
<Burgundavia> are we talking AD-style?
<RichEd> => So if we can shape our requests for Feisty to overlap with what we think will be requested by the other project partners, then we will be able to access some funds for warm bodies ... note this in no way implies any new position or post in Canonical ... and will probably be some part time or time boxed approach.
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> that is cool
<RichEd> Burgundavia: let me get the project summary for you
<Burgundavia> I need to be in MTV
* Burgundavia grumbles about work
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: big fan of beyonce?
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: knowles?
<highvoltage> yeah. she's in MTV too atm. sorry, no time for jokes :/
<Burgundavia> right
<RichEd> And while I do that, the one thought / comment is that the kind of management tools you were all talking about above would be high on the educators' agenda (seeing as they were also requested from our list users).
<Burgundavia> managment is high on everybodies list
<RichEd> And a final comment, if we can push the feature to an Ubuntu feature level, then perhaps (Ogra + Help Dev from Edubuntu) + (Ubuntu Dev) may be sufficient to get it underway ?
<kwak> RichEd: installatino of edubuntu is finish. i testing client (vmware), it can get an address, but stops in TFTP. do i need to do something else
<RichEd> highvoltage: ^^^ can you help kwak
<Burgundavia> RichEd: sure. I would love to see what needs are education specific and what can be made more generic
<highvoltage> kwak: try restarting inetd: sudo /etc/init.d/inetd restart
<highvoltage> kwak: if that doesn't work, check thet tftpd is enabled in /etc/inetd.conf
<kwak> ok.
<highvoltage> kwak: vmware sometimes does some strange things too
<RichEd> Burgundavia: that comment brings us back to the Edubuntu approach, or Ubuntu and Education approach ... if the Edulinux Project Team perceive a better fit with Ubuntu for say High Schools / Universities than Edubuntu (in its current state) then what they request as tools may need to work at the Ubuntu level 
<Burgundavia> RichEd: under the covers, Edubuntu IS Ubuntu
<kwak> highvoltage: i got a TFTP oopen timeout
<Burgundavia> there is no difference. Same kernel, same desktop, everyting
* Kamping_Kaiser slaps Burgundavia for pointless pointing outs
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: RichEd is new to this game
<RichEd> Burgundavia: new, not dof
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes, but i was under the impression he wasnt that new :O
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> sorry
<highvoltage> kwak: I think you might have to check your vmware network settings, I don't think the problem is with the edubuntu installation
<Burgundavia> I am been fighting with stuff at work for 5 hours, didn
<Burgundavia> t get home until 10pm
<Kamping_Kaiser> know the feeling burg :|
<highvoltage> Kamping_Kaiser: he isn't that new, he worked for HP education before
<Kamping_Kaiser> o_0
<Burgundavia> work has been dicking around on the developmetn side as well, so feeling like I need to change something
<Burgundavia> posslby that might involve sharp pointy things
<RichEd> Burgundavia: What I am saying is that if there is a need for (1) remote takeover of workstations (2) mass creation of users and home directories ... just because the request happens to originate from a Education user request, does not make it an Edubuntu feature requirement.
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<kwak> ok. il try that. the tftp boot is not commented
<RichEd> Yes, Edubuntu wants this available. But surely Ubuntu does as well, and we can work *with* them and their greater resource pool to make it happen and available for all.
<Burgundavia> RichEd: which brings us back to landscape and the need for a client
<Burgundavia> see, that is interesting, because I see no divide between Kubuntu,Ubuntu, Xubuntu and Edubuntu
<Burgundavia> especially Edu and U, because they share so much
<RichEd> I see 1 Edubuntu Developer and 50 Ubuntu developers and would love to have them building generic stuff underneath us, so that we can concentrate on the Education specific things, like desktop and application choices, and a few school specific tools.
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> anyway, I need to be at work in 7 hours
<Burgundavia> thus I need to sleep
<Burgundavia> night all
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: sleep tight
<Kamping_Kaiser> night
<RichEd> Burgundavia: check msg window for Edulinux summary
<RichEd> and then sleep tight :)
<Burgundavia> got it
<kwak> i still want to know if edubuntu has problems with broadcom. :)
<kwak> im so anxious to replace my k12ltsp installation, giving me headache.
* pygi doesn't think it has problems with it
<Kamping_Kaiser> if the kernel supports it, it will work
<kwak> o well, i think it's just a fedora problem.
<kwak> so edubuntu works out of the box right?
<Kamping_Kaiser> depends what you need to work ;)
<kwak> what do you mean. we're just using LTSP in a school computer lab.
<kwak> installed crossover to run MS Office.
<kwak> what's the minimum requirements, my server is dual CPU and 4GB RAM, supporting 25 clients
<Kamping_Kaiser> ltsp should 'just work', yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> i run 15 clients off a 3 gig p4, 2 gig of ram.
<Kamping_Kaiser> and doesnt break a sweat
<willvdl> hey all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi willvdl :)
<willvdl> anyone ever used any of the HP thin-clients?
<willvdl> compaq evo's to be more precise
<RichEd> hi will ... the terminal boxes, the size of a phone book ?
<willvdl> yeah
<Kamping_Kaiser> compaq evos? using some now.
<Kamping_Kaiser> unless you mean hardware thin clients - these are netbooted desktops
<willvdl> http://tinyurl.com/axtzw
<willvdl> e.g. t5125
<willvdl> they have a 2.4 kernel in, supprtx-terminal, ica, rdp
<willvdl> support x-terminal
<willvdl> Kamping_Kaiser, are you etherbooting them off an edubuntu server?
<Kamping_Kaiser> willvdl, i'm pxe booting desktop pcs
<willvdl> sorry, meant hardware TC's
<RichEd> willvdl: there was a norwegian outfit using these for a managed education solution ... they also sorted out how to get into the firmware, and load Linux and OpenOffice so that the device was usable even if the network was not available
<willvdl> aha. I'm trying to figure out if it is better to run them as netbooting thin-clients (aka LTSP) or as embedded devices running remote x-terminals
<Kamping_Kaiser> much of a muchness
<Kamping_Kaiser> ltsp=secure connections though
<willvdl> well, one could use ssh tunneling?
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes, if you can be bothered
<willvdl> and if it's all in one room then security is not really a problem...kind of
<willvdl> actually looking for path of least resistance
<Kamping_Kaiser> if they netboot, tahts what i would be using
<willvdl> if one *had* a bunch of terminals with various terminal emulators built into the flash, might it not be better to use that as opposed to configuring for netboot?
<willvdl> ah, thanks
<willvdl> I wonder if it's possible to use the flash RAM as local storage...
<Kamping_Kaiser> dinner!
<highvoltage> willvdl: an edubuntu thin client will see it as a local hard disk
<willvdl> cool
<willvdl> highvoltage, what yatc's have you used in "production"?
<highvoltage> yatc's?
<willvdl> yet another thin-client (your term :) )
<highvoltage> d'oh!
<highvoltage> mostly a variety of via thin clients. they are producing some cool stuff at the moment.
<highvoltage> we got a bunch of hp's too that we wanted to use as diskless fat clients, but they were just a little underpowered.
<willvdl> hmmm, I'm presuming I'm going to use HP stuff since, hey, it's HP doing it :)
<willvdl> yeah, the via stuff did look cool. what was the cost?
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> via stuff is quite cheap, I don't have exact prices (rand/doller changing, etc)
<highvoltage> but a thin client with a C3 1ghz processor, 512MB RAM, nice 3d display card, is about R600
<highvoltage> they run great as full machines too
<willvdl> eish, that's good
<willvdl> how's their power management?
<RichEd> nixternal: you got a tsunami in your areal ?
<RichEd> *area
<Kamping_Kaiser> wtf?
<willvdl> he got the quit message right though :P
<pygi> omg!
* Kamping_Kaiser sugets a +b on nixternal untill he works himself out
<willvdl> anyone familiar with symbiont?
<pygi> highvoltage: +b on nix for a bit? :)
<willvdl> battery low. gotto run and find a plug
<highvoltage> pygi: ouch, I see
<highvoltage> even his quit messages is causing flood
<juliux> highvoltage, normal you have to ban him;)
<hunmaat> re
<hunmaat> so how can I make a terminal user?
<RichEd> hunmaat: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation
<hunmaat> RichEd: i can't find it there...
<RichEd> try: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/EdubuntuCookbook
<highvoltage> hunmaat: use the Users and Groups tool under System -> Administration
<hunmaat> i did so
<highvoltage> hunmaat: does ldm just kick you out again?
<hunmaat> it's interesting
<hunmaat> it shows a cursor
<highvoltage> hunmaat: are you using dapper? did you change the server's ip address at some stage? you might need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys
<hunmaat> and the login screen again
<hunmaat> highvoltage: thank you, works fine
<highvoltage> kewl.
<hunmaat> my problem was that it doesn't do anything at all...
<hunmaat> * didn't :)
<highvoltage> it's an LDM bug that will be fixed in the next ubuntu release.
<highvoltage> it doesn't tell you what went wrong, it just kicks you back to the login screen.
<hunmaat> yup
<highvoltage> which isn't very user friendly :/
* Starting logfile irclogs/edubuntu.log
<RichEd> ogra: i found some good news for you on visa ... let me get the link
<pips1> ogra: ping
<LaserJock> haha, I'm Jordan Amaranth now :-)
<pips1> ?
<pips1> where?
<cbx33> Jordan Amaranth?
<LaserJock> on RichEd's email about UDS Mt. View
<pips1> heh
<pips1> looks like the poor fella has been communicating with too many people in too many channels
<pips1> 8-)
<cbx33> hrhrh
<pips1> LaserJock: did you see ogra join? 
<LaserJock> nope
<pips1> grrr
<LaserJock> cbx33: did you see Keybuk's blog post?
<cbx33> no.....hang on
<cbx33> just gonna read
<LaserJock> pips1: he's here
<ogra> pips1, sorry busy in -meeting
<pips1> oh
<pips1> how long will the meeting take ~ ?
<cbx33> LaserJock, hahaha
<LaserJock> have people heard of the CipUX tool from Debian-edu before?
<pips1> well, I have only heard about it on our ml and in the channel, if I remember correctly
<pips1> some mail cross-posted from the debian-edu ml
<ogra> LaserJock, its a rewrite of the webmin plugin they had before 
<ogra> with webmin vanishing from debian and ubuntu tehy separeated it
* cbx33 is half way through a new applet for multi converting ;)
<LaserJock> k
<cbx33> just drag a selection of files and it'll convrt them to what eer you want ;)
<pips1> ogra: you met and talked to the developer of CipUX, didn't you?
<cbx33> anyone with any ideas just mail me ;)
<ogra> pips1, no
<pips1> oh
<ogra> and i'm not really thrilled by it
<cbx33> is the schedule available for UDS yet?
<ogra> cbx33, the schedule will be made every evening for the next day, its dynamically
<cbx33> oh right
<pips1> ogra: since there is a decent group of education people at UDS (RichEd listed 9 people), don't you think we should add some specs to make it easier for this group to actually find time slots in the schedule?
<ogra> ??
<ogra> find time slots ?
<pips1> basically, you said that we need specs otherwise stuff wont be discussed and wont happen
<ogra> LP *assigns* time slots and the schedule with its assignments will be made pucblic
<cbx33> was hoping to find out when the SCP spec was going to be discussed
<LaserJock> cbx33: you'll have to watch the schedule
<ogra> pips1, rigtht but specs that arent in yet are very unlikely to get in now ... we just had the final meeting about them
<pips1> ogra: oohhh
<pips1> well, here is a list that RichEd put onto the wiki page today:
<ogra> thats why i tell you guys to register them since two weeks ...
<pips1> 1. Edubuntu Configurations
<pips1>    * Existing : Current Edubuntu "bundle / package" is for Primary Schools
<pips1>    * Required : Need Edubuntu "bundle / packge" for Seconday Schools
<pips1>    * Required : Need Edubuntu "bundle / packge" for University
<pips1> 2. Edubuntu-Product-and-Add-On
<pips1>    * Does it make sense to see Edubuntu as: Ubuntu base + Edubuntu Add-On
<pips1>    * Would this approach assist for the 3 bundle / packages:
<pips1>      * Edubuntu Primary
<pips1>      * Edubuntu Secondary
<pips1>      * Edubuntu University
<pips1>      * Would this approach assist with the single CD size constraints
<pips1> 3. Ubuntu-Education-Network-Integration
<pips1>      * {bring requested features in here}
<pips1> 4. Edubuntu-Desktop-Applications
<pips1>    * {bring requested applications in here}
<pips1> 5. Edubuntu-Web-Applications
<pips1>    * {bring requested applications in here}
<pips1> 6. Ubuntu-Education-Content
<pips1>    * {expand this}
<LaserJock> pips1: did you really need to paste that?
<ogra> that doesnt help if it doesnt match reality ...
<pips1> LaserJock: sorry
<pips1> ogra: please explain
<ogra> we dont have any spec about "Edubuntu Configurations"
<LaserJock> pips1: no, problem, but I've been staring at that page all day
<pips1> ogra: ^^^is a list of missing specs
<ogra> pips1, well 
<LaserJock> pips1: dude, we can make all the lists we want, but if we can't deliver those and they aren't speced
* cbx33 is glad he made the deadline this time
<ogra> what shall i say
<ogra> pips1, 1 and 2 totally depend on te result of the edubuntu-on-two-cds spec
<pips1> well, I guess that you guys are very pragmatic about it all... but don't you think it is worth getting input on topics? even if it will end up in feisty+1 ?
<ogra> i have no idea what 3 shall be
<LaserJock> pips1: we already have too many specs
<ogra> 4 is something for an edubuntu conf and not appropriate for MV
<pygi> pips1: and where is libburn? :P
<ogra> whats 5 ? 
<ogra> 6 is something for universe ...
<cbx33> ogra, we don't need an MV....we have you ;)
<pips1> ogra: that input you just gave was already helpful :)
<nothlit> cbx33, would your applet use mencoder
<nothlit> ?
<cbx33> nothlit, yes
<cbx33> and openoffice
<ogra> sad
<ogra> that makes it doomed to be in multiverse 
<ogra> cant you use gstreamer ? 
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I can try
<pips1> ok so we can handle/discuss (1) and (2) in the edubunt-on-two-cds topic, ok
<cbx33> think it'll be a good applet to make?
* pygi can help with gst a bit since he is developing Diva with it, altought in C & C#
<LaserJock> pips1: the problem is we are focusing on UDS Mt. View right now. After that's done we can discuss other things
<ogra> pips1, no
<cbx33> I'm already a good proportion of the way through doing the stuff I didnt know how to do
<cbx33> like dragging and dropping files onto and applet
<cbx33> and writing an applet
<ogra> pips1, only if we have a finished spec for edubunt-on-two-cds
<pips1> hmm
<ogra> pips1, before we assign space we need to *have* space
<LaserJock> ogra: we can start by making meta-packages for Universe I think
<ogra> LaserJock, right
<LaserJock> while the CD space is getting worked out
<ogra> but thats not specced or assigned to anybody yet
<LaserJock> nope
<ogra> so i suspect it has to wait for the edu conf 
<pips1> ha!
<LaserJock> well, I was going to start working on it during Feisty
<ogra> which will very likely be during the feisty schedule
<LaserJock> but I'm not sure how much time I'll have
<ogra> s we will know by then if we have space and how much that is
<pips1> ogra: isn't the (2) spec rather about a fundamental change? or not?
<ogra> pips1, 2 is edubuntu-install-profiles
<ogra> wildly mixed up with edubunt-on-two-cds
* pips1 goes to check out that spec
<LaserJock> :-)
<nothlit> ogra, gstreamer is an encoder as well?
<ogra> nothlit, it can be what you want it ... its only a fronend for a plugin system
<ogra> its a encoder, recoder, decoder
<nothlit> ogra, ahh
<pips1> edubuntu-install-profiles wasn't on my radar..
<nothlit> ty
<ogra> pips1, my fault i missed to assign it to uds-mtv did that during the meeting
<ogra> now it should be on all lists
* pips1 subscribes to edubuntu-install-profiles 
* pips1 adds it to the wiki page
<LaserJock> darn it
<LaserJock> this is going to be rough
<LaserJock> I'm only going to be there for Sunday and Monday
<LaserJock> edubuntu-menus-completion is Medium
<LaserJock> so I'm guessing it's up for later in the week :(
<LaserJock> should we have somebody else draft it?
<pips1> ok, so now I got (1) --> discuss at next Edubuntu Summit and (2) --> topic to me discussed as part of the 'edubuntu-on-two-cds' and 'edubuntu-install-profiles' specs
<LaserJock> I don't get where "Feature Requests : Existing" came from?
<pips1> ogra: (3) is a meta-topic of sorts, to address the overlap of the Ubuntu-Directory specs and the edubuntu-network-auth-* specs. You said yesterday we don't need an extra spec for that, since you will discuss this informally when everyone is in the same room... so let's do it that way.
<nothlit> cbx33, do you plan for your applet to be included with gnome? are the only applets developed for gnome included already? or are there others
* pips1 thinks the whole network-auth ldap story is a bit of a hot potatoe
<cbx33> nothlit, not sure
<cbx33> I'm planning for it to be included with ubuntu
<cbx33> not not sure about gnome
<pips1> LaserJock: I agree, I don't understand what RichEd meant by that  "Feature Requests : Existing" block...
<LaserJock> pips1: edubuntu-on-two-cds isn't on list of specs at the top
<pips1> you are right, let me add it
<LaserJock> also ltsp-persistent-home and edgy-plusone-thinclient-sound
<ogra> pips1, sigh ...
<nothlit> cbx33, how configurable will your applet be? bitrate changing (for audio) res changing ?
<ogra> pips1, the edubuntu-network-auth-* specs are about a default setup ubuntu will never provide
<ogra> its like ltsp in ubuntu and tsp in edubuntu ...
<cbx33> nothlit, yup via preferences
<cbx33> obviously I can't do everything
<cbx33> I mean's supposed to be a quick and easy applet
<ogra> pips1, they are totally different things .... people seem not to get that ...
<cbx33> but I'm hoping that a lot of it will be configurable
<pips1> ogra: indeed
<pips1> ogra: please try to explain a bit ? :-D
<ogra> pips1, one is about features the other about configuration of these features
<ogra> (and shipping that configuration as default)
<pips1> maybe it's useful if you explain it since some folks seem confused about the topic
<pips1> oops
<pips1> you just did explain
<LaserJock> pips1: so I figure with that list at the top we have 60 hrs worth of BOFs
<nothlit> how good is the kiosking in edubuntu
<LaserJock> not counting drafting and approval
<ogra> nothlit, as good that the one of the desktop you use ...
<ogra> gnome has sabayon for kiosk, KDE has kiosktool 
<ogra> ltsp will get a webkiosk mode as well soon but thats indeed different from what you mean 
<ogra> (i guess)
<pips1> ogra: what you say re edubuntu shipping configs. sounds absolutely reasonable :)
<ogra> pips1, edubuntu auth server is also about using te existing preferred solution other edu distros use ...
<ogra> and thats a point where we might probably clash with the network auth stuff from ubuntu
<ogra> but thats something we can only find out in the BOfs
<ogra> anyway, i need some breakfast now ...
<nothlit> ogra, yeah i was just wondering if it had any special kiosking things because i didn't know about sabayon and the kiosk tool for kde seems pretty developed
<ogra> and the other ltsp guys will arrive soon ...
<ogra> nothlit, yes, its fine for KDE ...
<nothlit> ogra, gnomes website just talks about editing files manually and gconf
<ogra> we integrate student-control-panel for ltsp and use pessulus for lockdown operations ... sabayon is rather for system wide profiles ...
<pips1> however, the directory server + auth topic seems like a hot potatoe that nobody seems to want to tackle.. for various reasons?
<ogra> so we actually have three tools 
<ogra> pips1, yes, and thats why i insist to use the existing smbldap solution
<pips1> right
<ogra> i wont sign off a feisty release without a network auth server 
<LaserJock> pips1: I rather see it as something all of a sudden everybody wants to tacke
<LaserJock> *tackle
<pips1> well, I guess what doesn't help is that ldap can be used for so many things, not only as a directory server, but network management, etc
<pips1> network resource allocatoin
<pips1> *allocation
<pips1> ack
<ogra> LaserJock, i wuld have attacked it in breezy if not tfheen (breezy) and ajmitch (edgy) had said they will do it ... 
<ogra> err
<ogra> tfheen (breezy/dapper)
<ogra> now i got tired of waiting and searched for the best solution ... which appears to be smbldap in the educational sector 
<pips1> I noticed the discussion with Burgwork about it earlier
<Burgwork> right
<ajmitch> yay, so we'll have two completely different solutions to the problem
<pips1> hmm
<ogra> ajmitch, no
<LaserJock> pips1: student-control-panel-upgrade isn't on the wiki page either
<ogra> *if anything comes out* of the server side discussion and i get guarantees we'll se a solution in time for feisty its all fine
<ogra> but i dont belive in it yet
<ogra> ajmitch, i'm only proposing smbldap because all attempts were unreliable until now and smbladp is a widely used working solution
<pips1> LaserJock: I was just busy scrolling up to find the bit where you mentioned the missing specs, so I can update the wiki page...
<ogra> ajmitch, i wont accept a *probably ready*
<pips1> heh
<pips1> erm LaserJock could you possibly update the wiki page with the spec you found missing ?
<LaserJock> pips1: np ;-)
<ogra> mark will shut down edubuntu if we dont have a certain amount of market share in the edu sector .... this feature is to essential to not have it *now*
<ajmitch> right
<ogra> s/certain amount/certain amount within one year/
<pips1> noted
<ogra> we have a deadline so i cant accept any "probably" 
<ajmitch> ogra: it's probably quite wise to go with smbldap for feisty at least
<ogra> right
<pips1> aha
<ajmitch> since I really don't think there'll even be a good 'probably ready' server solution for feisty in ubuntu
<ogra> thast why i push for it and invited both upstream devs ;)
<pips1> heh
<ajmitch> most of the focus so far in specs has been client-side, what do you plan to use for that?
<ogra> its very likely that the client side will be compatible with what ubuntu will build in feisty so we can probably drop the edubuntu spec for that, but we'll see that during the conf 
<ajmitch> so most likely the stuff I've done for configuration
<ogra> apart from that, smbldap is a all in one solution, it also has the client parts if we want them
<ogra> its a very good fallback ;)
<ogra> anyway, got to go now ... later ....
<ajmitch> bye
<ajmitch> see you in MV :)
<ogra> when will you arrive ? 
<pips1> It was good to get this discussion advanced a bit, me thinks :)
<ajmitch> saturday evening
<ogra> great :)
<ajmitch> well, saturday lunchtime, I think
<ajmitch> staying with whiprush
<ajmitch> so not at the same hotel
<ogra> ++
<ogra> well, hotel desnt really matter if we are locked up at google all day anyway :)
<pips1> ogra: just to answer your question from above quick
<ajmitch> assuming we even get network-authentication spec scheduled
<pips1> (5) is about discussing web apps to include in edubuntu (think moodle et al), but I think this will be more appropriate for the Edubuntu summit...
<ajmitch> still a bunch of specs with no priority for scheduling
<ogra> pips1, no
* pips1 has been wondering about that
<pips1> ogra: ?
<ogra> that should have been specced properly its a packaging and development effort
<pips1> oh
<ogra> moodle isnt includable as is
<pips1> :-/
<ogra> it needs tons of changes before which means we divert from debian
<ogra> and which means we need to spec the development for ti
<ogra> *it
<pips1> right
<Burgwork> ogra: what was the website again?
<ogra> ask RichEd if he can make up a spec and beg at mdz for accepting it even though we're past that already
<pips1> i guess we will discuss it at edubuntu summit and then need to spec it for the feisty+1 timeframe
<ogra> Burgwork, ?
<Burgwork> ogra: the smbldap one
<ogra> Burgwork, its linked on the spec
<pips1> ogra: RichEd is doing final preparations for his departure tomorrow noon time.. The only possibility would be for me to submit the spec draft and then have RichEd make a push for it, but you know what? I think it's way too late..
<ogra> pips1, well, it would be good to have that spec ...
<pips1> users ask for moodle since the beginning... 
<pips1> ... and it's is definitely on its hype peak here in ch
<ogra> right, so its worth pushing it
<pips1> personally, I'm not fond of it for various reasons, but I guess it is a relatively good all-in-one solution that supports a teachers "class-centric" world view ..
<ogra> its the commonly used solution in education so the same arguments as for smbldap apply
<pips1> i.e. the main structuring element in moodle are "courses"
<pips1> right...
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> ogra: so you really think this spec would get traction so late in the game? and do you think anybody would sign up?
<highvoltage> pips1: you have a link?
<pips1> for what?
<highvoltage> the spec
<pips1> it doesn't exist!
<highvoltage> ah, ok.
<ogra> pips1, well, if you want to see moodle integration its good to have a spec ... even if mdz denies it for inclusion *now* we'll have it there for feisty+1
<ogra> anyway ....
<ogra> bbl
<highvoltage> l8rs ogra
<pips1> ok, cu
<pips1> I was considering plopping up a sec for a minute or two, but I don't feel I can get a reasonable spec on such short notice.
<pips1> s/sec/spec
<highvoltage> pips1: perhaps it's a good idea to at least get something up
<pips1> ahh
<pips1> peer pressure ;-)
<highvoltage> some of the specs that currently exist are *very* basic and bare
<pips1> yeah I know
<LaserJock> man I hate wiki tables
<highvoltage> LaserJock: me too!
<pips1> that's probably also a reason why everybody says that there are way too many specs..
<highvoltage> especially on the *huge* pages
<pips1> :-)
<LaserJock> ok, I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UdsMtvEdubuntu
<pips1> great!
<highvoltage> I don't understand https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/fully-automatic-swap-server
<highvoltage> with all my last tests swap over NBD worked right out of the box?
<pips1> glad you are saying that, it got me confused here too :-)
<pips1> I got to relocate
<pips1> bbl
<ogra> highvoltage, what we have in edgy is a workaround, not the solution described in the f-a-s spec
<highvoltage> just saw the comment ;)
<highvoltage> I'll have to look at the code... I must admit I never looked deeper into it, since it 'just worked'.
<highvoltage> although, now I'm more interested in it
<ogra> it appears to me that it would meake sense to improve the script, even its not the proper solution it will make it easier to integrate encryption for example 
<ogra> thats why we need to discuss again
<ogra> edgy doesnt offer swap size for example ... it only uses a fixed size 32MB swapfile
* pygi plays with beryl
<ogra> pygi, wrong channel ;) edubuntu wont see composite stuff ....
<highvoltage> ogra: aah, when you mentioned the encryption it all came back to me
<pygi> ogra: I know ^_^
<pygi> ogra: I'm just saying :P
<highvoltage> 32MB is ok for thin clients, but when the local apps and fat clients becomes available they will need more. of course, we've already discussed this :)
<highvoltage> pygi: where do you need more than 32MB network swap atm?
<highvoltage> pygi: if your setup is so manual that you need more, then you can just as well manually adjust your swap ^_^
<ogra> Burgwork, looking at lat i must admit that i find edsadmin a lot cleaner UI wise ....
<pygi> highvoltage: you sure you talking to me? :P
<highvoltage> pygi: ah, sorry, getting tired here. thought you were talking about swap when you were talking about Beryl :)
<ogra> highvoltage, thats the point, you cant adjust it at all atm
<nothlit> is this channel mostly an edubuntu-dev channel?
<Burgwork> nothlit: a bit of everything
<ogra> nothlit, as well as edubuntu support and general edubuntu talk
<highvoltage> nothlit: it's mostly *everything* edubuntu :)
<nothlit> ahhh kk
<ogra> (and a little bit of ltsp)
<highvoltage> nothlit: although, non-edubuntu specific support questions are refered to #ubuntu, normally
<Burgwork> ogra: lat alsl has some stability issues
<pips1> back
* pips1 has been thinking about the moodle spec on his bus ride
<cbx33> hey guys....starting a linux comic strip...in my spare time....http://www.progbox.co.uk/comic/ - worth the effort of should I not give up the day job ;)
<highvoltage> whatch our eler!
<highvoltage> :)
<LaserJock> cbx33: you have a day job?
<cbx33> hahah
<LaserJock> ;-)
<cbx33> brb...getting a dvd
<highvoltage> cbx33: i have some trouble reading your handwriting at places
<highvoltage> s/our/out/
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> I'll probably re do them
<cbx33>  if it's worth it 
<cbx33> ;)
<cbx33> what ya think?
<pygi> cbx33: you played with beryl? :)
<pips1> ogra: I'm drafting the moodle spec
<ogra> pips1, great
<ogra> assign it to RichEd ;) so he has a spec as well (indeed he wont implement it but lead the discussions ;) )
<LaserJock> haha
<cbx33> pygi, havei  played with beryl
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> I have a video on google about it ;)
<pygi> :P
<pygi> I'm trying to install ubuntu on my laptop right now
<pips1> ogra: you have mail
<cbx33> highvoltage, http://progbox.co.uk/comic/comic1-edit2.jpg
<ogra> pips1, looks fine
<ogra> submit it
<pips1> ok
<ogra> oh, and subscribe me as essential subscriber to it 
<ogra> since i'll likely be required for the tech side
<pygi> cbx33: can you check for me do we have network-manager on cd on ship?
* pips1 is trying to find the submit-a-spec page in launchpad
<pips1> ah, finally I found it
<pips1> ogra: do I leave the Approver field blank?
<ogra> yep
<pips1> oh, I need to create a seperate wiki page before submitting the spec.. ?
<pips1> ok, it makes sense... after all, you are supposed to start drafting the spec before submitting it on LP...
<LaserJock> pips1: well, you can give it a name, you don't have to make the wiki page immediately
* pips1 wonders what RichEd will say about this egg I just layed
<LaserJock> pips1: what's the url?
<pips1> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/moodle-for-edubuntu
<pips1> ogra: do I need to add / change anything ?
<pips1> what about: 
<pips1> * Change status
<pips1> * Change priority
<pips1> * Edit whiteboard
<pips1> * Propose as goal
<pips1> * Target milestone
<pips1> * Request feedback
<pips1> * Subscribe yourself
<LaserJock> looks good to me
<ogra> looks fine
<pips1> :)
<pips1> now I need to email RichEd about it
<pips1> heh
<ogra> he's asignee
<ogra> so he should have gotten a mail already
<pips1> ah, ic
<pips1> that's nice and easy
<ogra> if you make a wikipage for it, please note that the debian packaging isnt feasable for us and needs ajor changes
<ogra> *major
<pips1> how come the spec doesn't show up on https://features.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv/+specs ?
<ogra> the way it is it wot get accepted by the scurity team
<ogra> *security
<ogra> because its not approved
<pips1> ah
<ogra> it needs mdz or sabdfl approval
<pips1> it's in mdz queue or something, ah, ok
<pips1> I need to talk to RichEd tomorrow about it..
<hunmaat> bye
<Char_Aznable> hi
<Char_Aznable> anyone here?
<ogra> sure
<ogra> 29 ppl according to my xchat
<Char_Aznable> eh i got a question
<Char_Aznable> is there anyway i could know my ubuntu version?
<Char_Aznable> like desktop or server 
<ogra> lsb_release -a
<ogra> but that question is better suited for #ubuntu
<Char_Aznable> hum ok thanks
<ajmitch> ogra: you're in SF now? how is it?
<ogra> i'd say cool ... but its rather warm :)
<ogra> and a bit rainy
<cbx33> it's freezing cold here
<cbx33> literally
<ajmitch> probably much the same as dunedin this week, which is good :)
<ogra> here its something around 16-18C
<ajmitch> yeah, 16C here today
<ogra> (felt)
<ajmitch> I'm wrong, 19 at the moment  :)
<ogra> http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/flash_stream.html <--- seen that ? 
<ogra> MS will sell SLES 
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> quite a surprise
<ajmitch> I wonder how much is talk :)
<ogra> changing the world ...
<cbx33> *bah* sound is too screwed up for me
<crimsun> ?
<crimsun> what "sound" in particular?
<ogra_> crimsun, flash
<ogra_> http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/flash_stream.html
<ogra_> its an encoding issue i think
<crimsun> I get nothing with Flash 9 beta on Edgy
<cbx33> what no sound at all?
<ogra_> i get the livestream on 7
<crimsun> no sound, no video
<cbx33> eeek
<ogra_> sound is delayed though
<cbx33> I'm on the...firefox auto installed version
<ogra_> i'm with the ubuntu package  
<crimsun> probably a firewall issue here
<Burgwork> http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq.html
<Burgwork> faw
<Burgwork> faq, rather
<cbx33> how can I easily grab an entire website
<cbx33> for example there is no download for these docs http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-base-libs/html/
#edubuntu 2006-11-03
<cbx33> mhz, !!!!
<cbx33> wow long time no see
<mhz> cbx33: hey ya!!
<cbx33> how are you
<mhz> indeed, toooooo loooong
<mhz> still kind of unemployed but at least, kicking :)
<mhz> I am helping an internet cafe to migrate to *buntu
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> sorry about the unemployed
<cbx33> I know how that feels
<mhz> so, they ar considering a mix solution: Edubuntu server + 5 clients and about 10 kubuntu stations
<mhz> (kubunt, basically because they want to use openkiosk)
<mhz> cbx33 and all devels: CONGRATS for Edubuntu 6.10
<mhz> it looks and feels great
<mhz> I only dislike the uspalsh .)
<cbx33> I didn't do much
<cbx33> :( - sorry mhz that was my doing
<mhz> but i did nothing :)
<cbx33> what about the sounds
<cbx33> hehe
<mhz> sounds are very nice, indeed
<mhz> it felt good the change
<mhz> oops, the change felt good
<mhz> cbx33: the thing is not really that it is too redish...
<mhz> it is the fact that redish logo over redish background...not good choice
<mhz> kubuntu and xubuntu decided to use their logos over black bg
<mhz> so, the logo gts emphatized
<cbx33> yeh i see your point
<cbx33> we just wanted to mak the most of 256 colours
<cbx33> anyway
<cbx33> nn guys
<cbx33> nn mhz 
<mhz> cbx33: anyways, thx foryour help
* Kamping_Kaiser distributes hugs to all who went awol
<nixternal> hehe
<gregben> Hi, I'm running Ubuntu 6.06 LTS and would like to install the edubuntu applications (math, games, etc.) only. Any ideas on how to do this?
<bimberi> hi gregben, if you install the edubuntu-desktop package it will brink in those apps
<gregben> Bimberi: Thx. Won't this wipe out the regular desktop? I have a kindergartener, a
<Fujitsu> gregben: It only installs extra stuff, so no.
<bimberi> gregben: no it won't
<gregben> fujitsu, bimberi: Thx, I'll go ahead and try it. Bye.
<bimberi> gregben: np :)
<gregben> Hi. I tried downloading edubuntu desktop via synaptic and it asks for the 6.06LTS CD-ROM which I don't have handy. Any way to just d/l everything from the net?
<Kamping_Kaiser> sure
<Kamping_Kaiser> enable the repositories (in one of the menus at the top) and download off them :)
<gregben> Kamping_Kaiser: Wow. That did it. Thanks a bunch. :-)
<Kamping_Kaiser> np :)
<LaserJock> cbx33: hi!
<stgraber> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (you can always find it in the channel topic, among other useful things)
<cbx33> hey LaserJock 
<cbx33> sorry got dc'd
<cbx33> is it just me or am I laggggyyy
<cbx33> am I here?
<Burgundavia> cbx33: never
<cbx33> Burgundavia: haha
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
<highvoltage> accidental reboots--
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday highvoltage 
<highvoltage> hi there Kamping_Kaiser 
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<cbx33> ey jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> hi
<highvoltage> cbx33: for what it's worth, I really like the usplash image in edubuntu
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: hmmmm
<cbx33> heh thanks highvoltage 
<cbx33> did you see the updated comic strip?
<highvoltage> nope
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: have you done LTSP with KDE before?
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: yep
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/comic
<cbx33> see the comic1-edit2 I think
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: just a sec...
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: is it painful compared to doing it in gnome?
<cbx33> is xfce easy?
<jsgotangco> pretty much
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: here is my memory tests with ltsp and kde from a while back, kde performs slightly better than gnome: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-September/000537.html
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: i wont be surprised, its pretty snappy
<cbx33> see i always thought kde was slower than gnome
<highvoltage> yep. gnome seemed to scale a bit better.
<highvoltage> cbx33: it completely depends on how you use it and what machine you have
<cbx33> but live cd's seem to work better with kde
<highvoltage> it's a case of ymmv
<highvoltage> it does.
<jsgotangco> cbx33: it does
<cbx33> why is that?
<highvoltage> kubuntu installs nicely on a pc with 256MB ram, where ubiquity with gnome just crashes.
<highvoltage> cbx33: kde's libraries are more integrated, and uses less ram
<jsgotangco> i dunno its probably that kde code is much faster
<highvoltage> cbx33: the downside is that their libraries are *so* integrated, that you have to have all or nothing
<jsgotangco> its really clean
<jsgotangco> yeah
<highvoltage> cbx33: which is why the kdelibs packages for edubuntu is so large, and we actually just need a small part of it
<jsgotangco> its your kall
<highvoltage> gnome can be much smaller too. slackware ships with dropline gnome, which is much snappier.
<highvoltage> but ubuntu ships with everything and the kitchen sink gnome :)
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> do we have dropline gnome in the repos?
<jsgotangco> i will use kubuntu for a while
<highvoltage> cbx33: nope
<cbx33> aww...
<cbx33> dang it
<highvoltage> cbx33: I like the handwriting more :)
<highvoltage> cbx33: I think the handwriting just needs to be a bit neater. the problem with the font is that it's roo obviously a font
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> i'll brush up on my handwriting
<highvoltage> i think you just need to draw the comic once, and then again. your handwriting isn't ugly, it just seems squashed in at some places, and the size differs.
<highvoltage> so if you do it once, you know what your space requirements is. perhaps just do a very draft one, and after that draw it nicely and do the text.
* highvoltage gets back to work
<cbx33> thanks highvoltage 
<jsgotangco> im gonna play some games
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> brb
<cbx33> hahah
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: the goods are on your way
<jsgotangco> muhahha
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: kewl :)
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: can you send me your postal/physical address too? I'd like to send you some software.
<jsgotangco> so pray that the cops won't knock on your door
<highvoltage> heh :)
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: oh can you seend me Office 2007?
<jsgotangco> hehe
* cbx33 slaps jsgotangco's wrists
<cbx33> do not mention the O word in here
<jsgotangco> *its soo pretty*
<Kamping_Kaiser> o_0
<jsgotangco> heh what movie did i hear that line before
<cbx33> findingnemo
<jsgotangco> nahh
<jsgotangco> a bug's life
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: I can send you even better :)
<jsgotangco> oohhhh office 2007+vista ultimate
<jsgotangco> ok brb
<bddebian> Heya
<Kamping_Kaiser> hey :)
<ulinskie> hello bddebian
<bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<mhz> hi all
<highvoltage> hey mhz!!!
<mhz> hey highvoltage!!!
<mhz> i am so happy to see ya
<highvoltage> I'm happy to see you back too
<mhz> friendly faces are always nice
<highvoltage> I noticed you were here last night, just after you left
<mhz> back? 
<highvoltage> friendly faces? where?
<mhz> oh you mean i have been "away" from irc
<highvoltage> mhz: just been a while since I saw you online
<highvoltage> yes, from irc :)
<highvoltage> how are things that side?
<mhz> indeed, on-line has been a difficult thing to me
<mhz> well, More teachers are aware of edubuntu now :D
<mhz> and so, they get to ask questions to email
<mhz> but no way they get to ML :(
<mhz> nor forums
<mhz> since last 3 days, i have been helping this internet cafe to migrate to *Buntu
<mhz> BUT....
<mhz> gee! always a but!!
<mhz> they want a mix solution
<highvoltage> as always :/
<mhz> Edubuntu and Kubuntu
<mhz> edubuntu server for 5 clients + 10 kubuntu standalones
<highvoltage> why kubuntu? for the kiosktool?
<highvoltage> ah yes, now I remember from your conversation from last night.
<mhz> well, because they feel kde is more like win
<mhz> please note the 'they feel'
<mhz> personally, you know desktop is not something i get concerned about :)
<mhz> anyways, that implies i get to worry on how to admin such mix environement
<mhz> considering the kubuntu stations will dual boot
<mhz> (at least for this early stage of migrations)
<mhz> later, we'll see some solution to play win games on the linux side
<mhz> cedega, so far, only runs smoothly for Starcraft, nothing else
<mhz> Any ideas on how to admin everything from same Edubuntu server?
<highvoltage> when the auth stuff happens, that will be much easier.
<Burgwork> auth and config are two slightly different issues
<highvoltage> NIS might be your easiest option, although there has been a script for easy ldap on the edubuntu lists, I haven't tried it though.
<highvoltage> Burgwork: yep.
<Burgwork> auth is pretty easy, but a bit of a pain to setup 
<Burgwork> I have an openldap server here at work
<Burgwork> config is much much harder
<mhz> Burgwork: eeek, yeah
<mhz> lasttime i trie ldap...i suffered :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav!!!!
* highvoltage has been meukowing today
<highvoltage> sbalneav: there's still a bit that can be removed in rcS.d and rc2.d in the chroot, and I've found that it does speed thing up a bit by parrallelising what's left
<Burgwork> highvoltage: have you been playing with upstart?
<highvoltage> Burgwork: struggeling more like it :)
<highvoltage> Burgwork: strange that you ask, I only started looking at it in more depth today
<highvoltage> (after running into some problems with upgrades)
<Burgwork> highvoltage: well, your ex-boss does have the lead hacker on hire, so you can probably ask him
<highvoltage> I don't want to bother him unnecassarily
<highvoltage> although, there's very little documentation on upstart at the moment.
<highvoltage> (unless I just haven't been looking hard enough)
<shiv> anybody using bibus here
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Hey
<sbalneav> Are you coming?
<sbalneav> UDS?
<LaserJock> no :(
<sbalneav> Bummer
<LaserJock> neither is jerome
<sbalneav> Double plus bummer
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> Paris was fun
<LaserJock> the Edubuntu Council and LTSP gods
<sbalneav> We'll have fun this time.
<sbalneav> Stick close to us: with sabdfl saying how important Thin clients are to corporate environments, thin... IS IN!
<LaserJock> haha
<LaserJock> you know, I was really amazed when I mentioned LTSP at a LUG meeting
<LaserJock> lots of people had heard of it and were really excited
<LaserJock> not that it's amazing that anybody would like LTSP
<LaserJock> but people are really into it
<nixternal> LaserJock: there is a guy at one of the LUGs here, actually my prez, floydewilde who is in here every now and then..he setup his entire company's warehouse on Edubuntu and LTSP
<nixternal> he loves it
<LaserJock> coolio
<nixternal> i haven't messed with LTSP yet
<nixternal> i don't have enough equipment to play like that
<nixternal> actually..can i run a server on a p3 800 just to plya with here?
<LaserJock> nixternal: how much ram?
<nixternal> 512mb maybe
<LaserJock> yeah, it'd probably work fine for testing
<nixternal> this is rediculous..i have been doing ubuntu support all day long with 2 people
<nixternal> i get them up and running, and point them to docs and everything..but they keep asking me
<nixternal> seriously burning me out right now
<nixternal> one guy is actually rocking on his own now..the otherguy wants to hold my hand to walk to the corner store i think ;)
<ukubuntu> It is such a double edge sword being a teacher, you want to nurture them but you need to make them go on their own as soon as possible
<nixternal> he installs dapper yesterday, and now he wants to upgrade to edgy
<nixternal> arg?
<nixternal> ukubuntu: so true ;)
<ukubuntu> parenthood is similar, except you have to keep them for at least 16 years!
<nixternal> but i feel bad leaving them to fend for themselves
<nixternal> they are like my children
<nixternal> ya..hahaha
<nixternal> what? 16?  you gotta keep um for 18 in the states
<nixternal> ;)
<ukubuntu> I have found that there are those who take a nugget of info and that is enough to launch them into space yet another will expect you to be their sys admin for the next 3 years
<ukubuntu> Well, they have a right to leave when 16 if they wish, and I am happy to promote that :D
<LaserJock> hi ogra 
<ogra> hey
<LaserJock> I'm trying to get out of the lab so I can head over the hill
<Burgwork> LaserJock: always knew you were old ;)
<Burgwork> hey ogra
<sbalneav> ogra!!!!!!
<ogra> heh
<sbalneav> Long time no see!!!!
<LaserJock> Burgwork: hehe, well I would have said "mountain" but I'm from Montana and can't call anything here a mountain
#edubuntu 2006-11-04
<SimonAnibal> ogra, alive?
* ogra goes to look in the mirror ....
<ogra> SimonAnibal, appears like, yes :)
<SimonAnibal> Heh, Hi, I'm Simon Anibal Ruiz Rolfs, we've interacted on the mailing list before
<ogra> highvoltage, how can i help ?
<ogra> ergh
<SimonAnibal> Corey Burger told me I should hook up with you about AD auth
<ogra> hi , how can i help ?
<SimonAnibal> You want it badly by Feisty
<SimonAnibal> I want it badly by Feisty
<ogra> me too
<SimonAnibal> See, I'm the only high school implementation of Ubuntu in the United States
<SimonAnibal> As far as Richard Weideman knows
<ogra> i invited the smbladp upstream developers to mountainview to the conference (actually we're just sitting on the same table at the ltsp conference here)
<SimonAnibal> We have 279 workstations
<SimonAnibal> and need this piece very soon, especially in the wake of the Novell Microsoft announcement
<SimonAnibal> Which is to say
<ogra> the plan is to integrate what they have built into edubuntu, pop a gui on top and rip out the gnome users-admin from the server install
<ogra> smbldap is widely used in edu distros i.e. K12LTSP
<SimonAnibal> If I can't deliver AD integration, I may not be able to keep Ubuntu here
<SimonAnibal> And I don't want that to happen
<ogra> its a proven well working setup ...
<SimonAnibal> That's good, the main piece we need, though, is the client side
<Burgwork> issue is, SimonAnibal doesn't control the server
<SimonAnibal> In the U.S. the server side isn't going to matter
<SimonAnibal> at least strategically right now
<ogra> and you apparentl need it with edgy 
<SimonAnibal> I'd like to get it up and running ASAP
<SimonAnibal> And I can be your real world test case
<SimonAnibal> My experience can help smooth out the rough areas
<ogra> then i'm likely the wrong guy to talk to, ajmitch implemeted it in edgy but didnt finish it off, i know it works but needs maual work of the admin
<SimonAnibal> That's fine, and that's the first step
<SimonAnibal> A good, solid HOWTO is the first step
<SimonAnibal> I can work with a HowTo myself
<SimonAnibal> and implement it
<SimonAnibal> and then I can help solidify that HOWTO into a gui or something
<ogra> right, try to get hold of ajmitch, he should be able to point you to the right docs or help you out answering support questions
<SimonAnibal> awesome
<ogra> :)
<ogra> in feisty we'll hopefully have both (server and client) basically integrated in edubuntu ... 
<SimonAnibal> ajmitch, Get a hold of me, I'll start hanging out in here on top of my other places or you can email me at sruiz@mccsc.edu I need your expertise and documents on Active Directory integration from the client side
<SimonAnibal> Cool
<SimonAnibal> So talk to me about what's going on with Edubuntu and Ubuntu-Education
<SimonAnibal> I notice you're not in #ubuntu-education, and I don't remember you being on the ubuntu-education mailing list
<SimonAnibal> are we separate projects?
<ogra> there yre many many overlaps ... but RichEd made them distinct projects  since people also use ubuntu in education 
<ogra> s/yre/are/
<SimonAnibal> So, then, what is Edubuntu if not Ubuntu taylored for Education?
<Burgwork> that is a fun distinction
<Burgwork> I disagree with the breakup as RichEd laid it down
<SimonAnibal> I wouldn't mind a little enlightenment, if you have the time
<SimonAnibal> I don't mind working with both projects if they both fit my goals
<ogra> Burgwork, ++
<ogra> but now its in place
<Burgwork> it is not laid in the sand
<ogra> so lets make the best out of it :)
<SimonAnibal> As far as I understood it, wasn't that going to be under discussion at Mountain View?
<ogra> my hope is that edubuntu gets lots of input from the ubuntu-education side so we can in the end provide everything thats needed everywhere in edubuntu
<ogra> and dont need the distinction anymore
<Burgwork> I  think RichEd sees Edubuntu as merely LTSP
<ogra> which is wrong ...
<Burgwork> ie: just an implementation
<Burgwork> I see Edubuntu as "Ubuntu in Education and all that implies"
<ogra> right
<SimonAnibal> Well, unfortunately you've both seen me comment that that's what my experience of it has been
<ogra> even my personal focus lies in ltsp, its still more than that
<SimonAnibal> I think LTSP should be available on all platforms
<ogra> ltsp is only a minor part
<ogra> it is
<Burgwork> it is
<Burgwork> bugger :)
<SimonAnibal> right, but I mean in practice
<Burgwork> you can install LTSP on Ubuntu
<SimonAnibal> In practice no other package has it, but Edubuntu
<ogra> but edubuntu is the only distro that fully configures a default setup so that even an arts teacher who doesnt know much about computers can use it right away
<ogra> in ubuntu and xubuntu you need to do manual setup after install thats the whole difference
<SimonAnibal> Right
<SimonAnibal> Shouldn't that be available to users of (K)(X)Ubuntu
<ogra> we're just talking about http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
<SimonAnibal> apart from the educational stuff?
<ogra> i hope it will be done by feisty
<SimonAnibal> cool
<ogra> then it doesnt matter on which system you use it 
<SimonAnibal> Because the other side is
<sbalneav> Edubuntu = ubuntu + ltsp + educational program + educational content + classwork managemtent tools.
<SimonAnibal> Not every school WANTS LTSP
<ogra> it will be a charm to set up ltsp and maintain it
<sbalneav> LTSP's a part, but the educational part puts the edu in edubuntu.
<ogra> sbalneav, ++
<Burgwork> but edubuntu can also be the standalone pcs
<ogra> ltsp was simply the part that wasnt developed yet ...
<Burgwork> and when my company gets it act together and releases our multiseat stuff as free software, multiseat
<ogra> the main focus for edubuntu will move on
<ogra> for feisty its AD 
<SimonAnibal> So, I agree with Richard as far as the LTSP part, while important to eduation in third world countries, is not really "educational" technology, and...well, neither is AD for that matter
<Burgwork> SimonAnibal: the key thing is not to get hung up on one piece of technology
<Burgwork> I think that is where RichEd is stuck as well
<SimonAnibal> Heheh
<Burgwork> LTSP is one part, currently a large part
<SimonAnibal> Well, I guess I don't understand why it's default for Edubuntu, and not a simply option for all is all
<ogra> SimonAnibal, edubuntu is about integrating that technologies as well as educational apps ...
<ogra> because we oriented on the biggest edu distro which s K12LTSP ...
<SimonAnibal> Ahhh....I see
<SimonAnibal> it's sort of vestigial, like?
<SimonAnibal> Or, ummm, hereditary
<ogra> in fact my big hope is to have the K12 community joining us at one point and considering edubuntu as a base for them instead of redhat 
<ogra> merging the efforts to become the biggest force 
<SimonAnibal> And you're tackling each major technology that'll get us there at a time
<ogra> right
<SimonAnibal> Ok, well, then, from what you're saying the new era of Edubuntu is exactly where I fit in as far as where you can help me and I can help you
<ogra> i'm mostly alone, so i *can* only attack one at a time ;)
<SimonAnibal> Well, I'm sorry I misunderstood
<SimonAnibal> I am rather new to all of this
<SimonAnibal> Which sort of limits my use
<ogra> totally not :)
<SimonAnibal> And my situation limited me from being of use in the last era of Edubuntu
<ogra> your feedback is a valuable contribution already ;)
<SimonAnibal> Since using modern machines as LTSP clients wouldn't be very worthwhile
<ogra> it would
<SimonAnibal> oh?
<ogra> LTSP is more than "reusing old hardware"
<ogra> lots more
<Burgwork> my dream is "Edubuntu cluster"
<SimonAnibal> I thought the idea was to pass off processing to something with processor speed
<Burgwork> a mix of thin and fat clients, all sharing one giant pool of computing power
<ogra> its about maintaining only one centralized server
<SimonAnibal> If you already have a 2.4 GHz processor, what's the point?
<ogra> you can run a full diskless workstation on that 2ghz cpu
<ogra> but without local HD
<SimonAnibal> how much network traffic for 297 workstations?
<sbalneav> SimonAnibal: Which is more work, maintaining a lab of 40 machines with hard drives, or maintaining one machine that serves 40 diskless thin clients :)
<ogra> which means you can do all maintenance locally on the server and all workstations in your network pick it up right away
<cbx33> can i view the schedule yet?
<cbx33> for uds?
<ogra> cbx33, no
<cbx33> also, where do I get information about gobby...and ekiga
<SimonAnibal> I'm looking at SystemImager as a way to do all the work on one "golden client" and pushing that image out to everyone else
<ogra> cbx33, it will be mailed out early enough 
<cbx33> Damn it all
<cbx33> I want to make sure I can attend the SCP spec
<Burgwork> SimonAnibal: I would rather do kickstart
<cbx33> I hope it's during time I'm either not travelling or free
<ogra> SimonAnibal, thats exactly what ltsp provides you
<Burgwork> SimonAnibal: clean installs are better than images
<SimonAnibal> Would this require having a DHCP server?
<SimonAnibal> And how much network traffic per workstation?
<SimonAnibal> those are my main questions
<ogra> yes it requires that a dhcp server tells the workstation to boot for a ltsp server
<SimonAnibal> then it's already not possible for me
<SimonAnibal> our IS department has forbidden DHCP servers
<SimonAnibal> They have "jurisdiction" of that
<ogra> do they run one ? 
<SimonAnibal> They do, and they don't let anyone else mess with it
<ogra> thats fine, they just need to set it up the right way :)
<SimonAnibal> So, how would the workstations function without a harddisk? NFS?
<ogra> they boot from a readonly NFS root on the server
<his_dudnes> may i join with an edubuntu/ltsp question?
<ogra> then set up tmpfs'es for the files it needs read/writeable in ram
<ogra> you can than make it mount /home from a centralized server ... 
<ogra> his_dudnes, indeed
<SimonAnibal> So, what, it runs everything from memory?
<ogra> yep ... as a normal system does as well ...
<SimonAnibal> Ok...what happens in the following scenario:
<SimonAnibal> It's a beautiful Monday morning and the teachers come in. They flip the switch and 279 workstations all light up at once.
<SimonAnibal> on a 100 Mbit network
<ogra> you will need gigE for full workstations in that scenario 
<ogra> 100 mbit is fine for normal thin clients but not for running fully set up workstations
<SimonAnibal> ack
<icheyne> what are the system requirements of Edubuntu?
<icheyne> recommended requirements - not minimum
<icheyne> :)
<nixternal> heh, anything greater than the minimum requirements ;)
<ogra> lol
<ogra> icheyne, for a classroom server or a standalone workstation ?
<icheyne> standalone
<icheyne> please
<ogra> edubuntu provides both
<his_dudnes> well i had set an ltsp on mandriva (ltsp 4.1), when time came to migrate to ubuntu, i thought that "apt-get install edubuntu-desktop" would have it all setup out of the box , it wasnt quite so.I edited "/etc/ltsp/dhcp3.conf " and ran ltsp-build-client, I am stuck exactly after the tftp stage of booting, if understand it well in edubuntu tftp doesnt provide the kernel directly it provides an intermediate file with  "pxe" in the file name (i am not now on 
<his_dudnes> the server). Sow it never gets past that pxe file.alsow i was wandering wich is the script that updates /etc/hosts etc. the old "ltspcfg" equivalent, if i understoud well the guides, i must not run the old ltspcfg scripts because they are deprecated.I think i am missing something obvius but i cant get pass that point...
<nixternal> sorry ogra for that answer..i couldn't come up with anything better
<his_dudnes> excuse the flod
<icheyne> oh man - got to go
<icheyne> bye all
<icheyne> :(
<ogra> icheyne, for a worstation that same as for ubuntu with ~500MB more diskspace for the educational apps
<icheyne> oh?
<ogra> *thats
<icheyne> same as Ubuntu
<ogra> right
<icheyne> ok that's great
<icheyne> thanks so much
<icheyne> :)
<icheyne> bye
<ogra> edubuntu workstation is ubuntu+edu apps
<cbx33> see'yall later
<ogra> ciao cbx33 
<cbx33> ogra, does the schedule get mailed to everyone?
<nixternal> thanks for the warning cbx33 ;)
<ogra> cbx33, nope
<cbx33> nixternal, what warning ;?
<ogra> there will be a notification mail
<nixternal> <cbx33> see'yall later
<cbx33> ah right ok
<nixternal> let me know you will be back later ;)
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> ah ha ha :p
<ogra> his_dudnes, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
<nixternal> hehe
<cbx33> right I'm off....
<his_dudnes> thanks ogra
<ogra> his_dudnes, oh, sorry that wont help you ... youre beyond setting it up
<nixternal> man i wish i was goin' to mtv...damn thy government!
<ogra> try running: sudo ltsp-update-kernels 
<ogra> sorry, but we have to leave the conference room here ... 
<his_dudnes> thanks
<ogra> his_dudnes, subscribe to edubuntu-devel and mail the list, i'll answer you there ...
<his_dudnes> thanks a lot....
<ogra> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
<ogra> ;)
<SimonAnibal> I'm obviously having connection problems here
<SimonAnibal> ogra, Burgwork: if you read this and can answer my concern at sruiz@mccsc.edu, I'd really appreciate it. I REALLY want to make the best decisions up front for this network, and your expertise would be GREATLY appreciated!
<SimonAnibal> ogra, Burgwork: I mean the LAN bandwidth concern
<SimonAnibal> I'm cutting out now
<SimonAnibal> ciao!
<outchy> i have a question about installing edubuntu on a g4 powerbook ... i can't get it to boot from CD and i've spent the last 2 hours scouring the internet for the answer
<outchy> does anyone know?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: are you around?
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell LaserJock not sure if you've seen this before... http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/10/23/science/20061024_ILLO_GRAPHIC.html
<edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
<LaserJock> highvoltage: yes, I saw it today
<edubuntugirl> LaserJock: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'not sure if you've seen this before... http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/10/23/science/20061024_ILLO_GRAPHIC.html' 34 seconds ago (on Sat Nov  4 08:17:55 2006)
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> cool
<LaserJock> I wonder how well that kind of periodic table would work well
<LaserJock> it seems a little complicated at first glance
<LaserJock> but I've had the good 'ole periodic table drilled into my head
<LaserJock> we had to memorize it
<highvoltage> I think making even the slightest change would probably have huge effects. Text books would need updating, lots of software would need updating... and like you, many people have it memorised.
<highvoltage> having said that, I don't believe in stopping progress :)
<LaserJock> that's would be a bugger to code
<LaserJock> s/'s//
<LaserJock> I do see some interesting points
<highvoltage> it would be nice for programs such as gperiodic to 'know' that there might be different layouts in te future, so that you can switch between different views and models.
<LaserJock> heh
<highvoltage> :)
<LaserJock> I don't know that I'll have to worry about it anytime soon
<highvoltage> yeah. it will probably take a few decades for scientists to battle it out.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: at least
<highvoltage> I can see the flamewars on the scientists periodictable-chat mailing lists.
<LaserJock> sometimes science takes a while for these kinds of things
<LaserJock> in general most chemisty textbooks are roughly 50 years behind current research
<highvoltage> geez
<LaserJock> it's pretty difficult
<LaserJock> chemisty, in particular, seems difficult
<LaserJock> as we just keep adding chemistry knowledge
<LaserJock> rather then redoing or replacing
<sbalneav> Evening all
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav 
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<sbalneav> Hey highvoltage, Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: with the official ltsp 5 release, are you going to use xdmcp or ssh?
<highvoltage> hey Kamping_Kaiser 
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<sbalneav> With the stuff that I'm working on this week, it should be able to use both.
<sbalneav> and still do localdevices.
<highvoltage> does localdevices work with xdmcp on edgy's ltsp?
<sbalneav> No, not at the moment.
<highvoltage> eesh.
<sbalneav> Only with the LDM ssh-tunneled connection.
<Kamping_Kaiser> does anyone know if it would be possible to backport ltsp5 to dapper?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm hoping for device support ;|
<highvoltage> Kamping_Kaiser: you should be able to do a manual installation of it, but as the saying goes, it won't be officially supported
<sbalneav> But, I demoed a proof of concept today that combines both.  I figure there's about 20 hours worth of work to finish it off.
<highvoltage> (not by ubuntu anyway)
<highvoltage> wow
<highvoltage> I suppose I could use the xfce4 style local decives with xdmcp? although that would be a bit hacky :/
<Kamping_Kaiser> highvoltage, i apreciate it wouldnt be supported, i' suppose i'll have to investigate a manual install :|
<Burgundavia> sbalneav: are you paid by your work to work on LTSP?
<highvoltage> Kamping_Kaiser: check the ltsp wiki when ltsp 5 is released :)
<Burgundavia> Kamping_Kaiser: looking at the deps, it shouldn't be to bad. I would recompile
<sbalneav> Burgundavia: Nope.  I work for free :)
<sbalneav> Shuttleworth does pay, however, to bring me down to the UDS conferences, which is GREATLY appreciated, by me.
<sbalneav> However, the rest of what I do, I do simply because I love to do it. :)
* Kamping_Kaiser pokes ltsp into releaseing 5
<sbalneav> We'll do it when it's done :)
<LaserJock> oh no
<sbalneav> And not a second sooner :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: has been converted to the Debian side
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<LaserJock> s/://
<sbalneav> Heh, we've NEVER had any sort of firm release schedule.
<sbalneav> We're even WORSE than debian :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*
<sbalneav> However, I think you'll see a tarball out from us within the short term.
<Kamping_Kaiser> yay. then i just have to get it installing in dapper without uber breakery
<sbalneav> The problems not the chroot.
<sbalneav> The problems the patches to Nautilus we had to make to fix broken behavior in /media handling.
<sbalneav> THAT will be the tricky part to backport.
<sbalneav> And without it, localdevices in dapper will be useless.
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh :(
<sbalneav> So, why not upgrade to edgy, and simply get the good stuff now?
<Kamping_Kaiser> its a community group's server, and i want tehm on the LTS
<sbalneav> Right, because you're going to be wanting to run a 5 year old operating system in the future :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> 3 years.
<highvoltage> i think it's good that ltsp doesn't rush it. ltsp 4.2 was of excellent quality, and 5 is nearly a re-write, and users will expect the same quality they had in 4.2
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm happy for them to take their time, i'm just getting excited
* Kamping_Kaiser has heard bad stories about dapper-> edgy upgrades
<Kamping_Kaiser> but the lts is what is keeping the server where it is.
<highvoltage> ubuntu's upgrades are very fragile at the moment.
<Kamping_Kaiser> :(
<sbalneav> No they work fine.  Unless you've buggered up your box by running that idiotic "faster dapper" shell script.
<sbalneav> And if you have, you deserve whatever you get :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehehe
<sbalneav> I had 5 boxes, all upgraded from dapper to edgy just fine.
<highvoltage> I had many boxes that upgraded fine too, but then again...
<Burgundavia> if you don't have dumb stuff installed, you should be mostly good
<Burgundavia> no upgrade is going to be painless
<highvoltage> I've had a couple of boxes that had nothing strange of them and they still didn't upgrade fine
<highvoltage> which is due to legitamite bugs.
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: is legitamite a new kind of vegamite? maybe one that is allowed in the US?
<highvoltage> upgrading from sysvinit -> upstart did somevery strange stuff on my boxes.
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: d'oh!
<highvoltage> hehe
<Burgundavia> *grin*
<LaserJock> yeah, I did 3 upgrades just fine
<Burgundavia> my father used to eat that stuff. All this ZA blood and I dispise teh stuff
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: hey I just got up like, 30 minutes ago, it takes a while for the engrish to kick in
<Kamping_Kaiser> Burgundavia, what vegimte?
<Kamping_Kaiser> *emite
<highvoltage> we don't have vegemite in .za
<Burgundavia> or marmite
<highvoltage> aaaah
<Kamping_Kaiser> marmites horrible
<Burgundavia> both look like road tar
<Kamping_Kaiser> vegemite rocks
<Burgundavia> and taste only slightly better
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
* Kamping_Kaiser eats it raw
<highvoltage> wow. glade is great. I finally grok it. if only I knew it was this simple *ages* ago.
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: what are you working on?
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: glade is the bomb
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: just a simple chooser screen for a live cd
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: chooser screen?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: so that a user can choose to start ubiquity directly, instead of launching the whole livecd
<Burgundavia> ah, cool
<Burgundavia> we need that
<highvoltage> or they can choose just to have a rescue environment (which I still have to write)
<Burgundavia> we really need that
<highvoltage> i hope to get it in upstream ubuntu once its more polished
<highvoltage> our release date is 15 November, so I have to get it all working by then :)
<jsgotangco> everything is so quiet, most of the people are on a plane
<highvoltage> yep.
<highvoltage> they're on a plane. they can't complain.
<highvoltage> </silly nirvana reference>
<Burgundavia> snakes?
<jsgotangco> haha
<highvoltage> snakes on planes are *so* last UDS
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: are you headed to MTV?
<jsgotangco> it seems anything voip wasn't even considered this time
<Burgundavia> no, it was
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: nope, I am flooded with work atm :/
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/Ekiga
<highvoltage> I would've really, really liked to go though.
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> similarly for myself
<highvoltage> yes, I'll be doing the ekiga thing :)
<highvoltage> (when possible)
<highvoltage> timezone differences might make it difficult.
<Burgundavia> same tz as me
<jsgotangco> *sigh* i will have to fix my router jsut for ekiga
<Burgundavia> which actually makes it harder
<highvoltage> but I'm getting used to less sleep these days :)
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: unlikely
<Burgundavia> ekiga should be able to bypass it
<jsgotangco> surely?
<jsgotangco> hmm but im in kde now
<jsgotangco> heheh
<highvoltage> ekiga should run fine in kde.
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/KPhone
<Burgundavia> got ya covered
<Burgundavia> they are using SIP
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/SIP
* jsgotangco grabs kphone
<Burgundavia> jsgotangco: are you on KDE these days?
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: well as of 2 days ago ive been using it exclusively
<Burgundavia> ah
<jsgotangco> i just dont want to miss anything
<jsgotangco> there are some stuff that i seem to like it more here
<Burgundavia> kde has always had too many options and not enough planning for me
<Burgundavia> I fear the KDE people are going to have a backlash with 4, because there has been this "promising the world" expectation, with little to see
<Burgundavia> such as maybe, spinny cubes or other bits
<jsgotangco> well its pretty much an all or nothing project
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> there is going to be solid stuff underpining KDE4, I just wonder it will be like our edgy
<Burgundavia> not very edgy, mostly infrastructure
<jsgotangco> 2 non-free software i use (opera, skype) work very well in kde
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> I hate skype and everything it stands for
<Burgundavia> however, it does work
<jsgotangco> surely i dont like being tied to it, but all my contacts use it
<jsgotangco> no one i know has even heard of gizmo at least
<Burgundavia> there is no project to take voip back, a firefox like project
<jsgotangco> that's sad ekiga isn't something that is nice to use for starters
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> I can't wait for telepathy to wipe ekiga and gaim off my desktop
<jsgotangco> yeah
<Burgundavia> kopete is going to use telepathy, which rocks
<jsgotangco> if there's one thing i currently hate ok kde
<jsgotangco> is that the bluetooth support is pretty spotty
<Burgundavia> gnomes is not that great
<jsgotangco> its pretty straightforward and it works most of the time
<jsgotangco> zakame was able to use his 3G phone connection via bluetooth with a lot of hacks from rfcomm
<jsgotangco> so we're building on that and hopefully do something more easier
<Burgundavia> mjg was working on some stuff in bluez
<Burgundavia> however, KDE not using gstreamer kinds of sucks
<Burgundavia> I guess that is why I don't use KDE
<Burgundavia> inablity to make decisions
<jsgotangco> that's one thing too
<jsgotangco> Burgundavia: check this out
<jsgotangco> http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1930975,00.html
<Burgundavia> wow
<Burgundavia> how people use tech is so different across teh world
<jsgotangco> wireless data is getting pretty cheap here too
* highvoltage is nearly always on wireless
<highvoltage> in south africa our landlines are way too expensive
<jsgotangco> our landlines are cheap but most of us find them pretty useless most of the time
<jsgotangco> as prepay is always been the main driver of things here
<Burgundavia> would it shock to you learn I don't own a cellphone?
<jsgotangco> *gasp*I
* jsgotangco can't live without one
* jsgotangco uses his cellphone for gmail and googlemaps
<jsgotangco> highvoltage: how is wireless data billed over there?
<[Daumantas] > hello
<[Daumantas] > anybody here?
<highvoltage> yep
<[Daumantas] > what u can recomandate for intel 166mhz and 50 mb of ram PC ?
<highvoltage> to be honest?
<[Daumantas] > mhm..
<Burgundavia> the recycling bin
<highvoltage> find out if you have a local pc recycling plant.
<[Daumantas] > :>>>
<highvoltage> you could get it to work as a thin client, barely, but it's not worth the effort. it will be painfully slow.
<[Daumantas] > maybe i can download oldest version of edubuntu?
<highvoltage> won't work on it.
<[Daumantas] > hmm
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: my first computer was a 120mhz computer
<Burgundavia> that worked well, back in the late 90's
<Kamping_Kaiser> it will work as an xdm client, but igs ugly
<highvoltage> my first computer was a 4.77 mhz computer
<Burgundavia> a web only client
<[Daumantas] > i find this laptop in my new car :>>
<highvoltage> my second one 33 mhz
<highvoltage> [Daumantas] : that sounds dodgy :)
<[Daumantas] > :>
<pygi> morning everyone
<Kamping_Kaiser> gday
<juliux> morning pygi 
<highvoltage> hey pygi 
<pygi> highvoltage: hey, how is you? :)
<highvoltage> I'm under high load and slightly stressed, but I'm being very productive and feeling good.
<pygi> nice ^_^
<highvoltage> how are you pygi?
<pygi> highvoltage: just got back from exam at uni :) Testing the -tao thingy in libburn, works smoothly
<pygi> I'm sick, tired, and quite exhusted :P
<pygi> or whatever the spelling is :)
<highvoltage> pygi: get some fresh air!
<pygi> highvoltage: hehe, I know ^_^ Took some walk after exam :P Now I need a tea :)
<highvoltage> ah, exams. that's enough to make anyone sick.
<pygi> hehe :P
<ebees> Ooops, looks like I'm the only one here tonight :)
<pygi> nop :)
<juliux> ebees, nop
<ebees> :)
<ebees> I was thinking it was likely, but am glad it's not true :))
<ebees> I'm just curious about a couple of things. Maybe you may be able to provide me with some information or directions
<ebees> ?
<pygi> always ^_^
<ebees> I've been given a PowerEdge 2300 (dual PIIIs). I'm wondering how well this would perform as a server for Edubuntu (I'm going to put at least 512Mb RAM on it for about three thin clients)???
<Kamping_Kaiser> shold be ok
<Kamping_Kaiser> *should. what P3's exactly though?
<ebees> I'm not entirely sure - I only got it yesterday and haven't had time to check up - though I'm pretty sure they're at least 500Mhz - I think think think :)))
<Kamping_Kaiser> P3s start at ~500 ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> 2x1gig do 3 clients easy, 2x500 will be pushing it.
<ebees> Really? Bugger
<ebees> I'll probably have to consider using it for a home server then
<ebees> Thought it's probably over-kill for that :))
<Kamping_Kaiser> yep :) but most home servers are :)
<ebees> LOL
<Kamping_Kaiser> mines giong to be a 600mhz alpha
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'll basicly be an ssh gateway :P
<ebees> I'll have to wait until I get some moolah and buy something with a bit more.... how do you think it would for only two think clients? Two P2s with 128Mb RAM?
<ebees> THINK clients... wish I had some of them. Most of mine don't :)
<pygi> you cant use 128 ram for two clients :P
<ebees> Sorry, I'm just confusing things here. I was was thinking of connecting two P2 each with 128MbRAM to the poweredge
<ebees> running 512Mb RAM
<ebees> No?
<pygi> I'm confused about what you are talking :P
<ebees> From the beginning :)
<ebees> If the machine I haven't will struggle with 3 thin clients
<ebees> Would it do any better running the Poweredge with 512 Mb RAM and connecting two P2s with 128 or 196Mb RAM?
<ebees> I'm not au fai with the mechanics of Edubutu, servers and clients etc. So am wondering if the more powerful the client, would this ease the strain on the server?
<highvoltage> ebees: no, it wouldn't
<highvoltage> ebees: the server would do the same ammount of work regardless
<ebees> Fair enough. It was just a thought. I've seen Dell selling new one's for $AU499 - and I guess I can always check eBay :(
<ebees> thanks for the info though
<highvoltage> ebees: the next version of edubuntu ltsp might be able to share some loads with the clients. we are looking forward to having that functionality
<ebees> Is this the one after 6.10?
<highvoltage> yep
<ebees> I'm curious because I have a daughter starting school (kindergarten) next year. I run Xubuntu with Ed icons etc for her on a P2 with 192Mb RAM
<ebees> I want to get ahead of the game :)
<ebees> and speak to the IT staff at the school when she starts
<ebees> I know they run iMacs at the school and some Windows machines
<ebees> We don't use either at home
<ebees> I'd like to introduce them to the side of light and goodness!
<ebees> away from the path into temptation and deliver them from evil
<ebees> =)
<ebees> for ever and ever, amen
<ebees> ooops... I think my childhood is showing.
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<ebees> Well, it's quite late here in Oz (Dorothy) so I'm going to have to sign off soon.
<Kamping_Kaiser> where are you?
<ebees> Sydney, Australia
<ebees> Also, I have to work tomorrow - bugger, damn, ham and spam.
<ebees> the money's good though :)) Whoo hooo
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah sydney
<Kamping_Kaiser> the big smoke
<Kamping_Kaiser> you should get into slug (if your nto already)
<ebees> Yes, too true unfortunately. Glad I dont have aircraft noise too.
<Kamping_Kaiser> theres some cool ubuntuers in sydn.
<ebees> Yeah, already a member (about two years now)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<ebees> How'd you know about SLUG
<ebees> ?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm in Adl. hills. i know /something/ about the rest of aust :)
<ebees> Ooooooh. A southerner :)
<ebees> I could make jokes about the woods and hill and hicks... but I've never been to SA.
<ebees> Tasmania though, that's another story :))
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. well i'm origonaly from tas, so go hog wild :P
<ebees> But don't we all say that
<ebees> I like how you can have a laugh about "a map of Tassie" with tourists :)))))
<ebees> Naughty I know
<Kamping_Kaiser> *g*
* Kamping_Kaiser poitns to his teatowl
<ebees> Have you got one ? 
<ebees> Laugh
<Kamping_Kaiser> a big tas with 'tasmania and its territory', and a small aust
<ebees> Like the one of NZ. It has a map of NZ - North Island/ South Island. Then "West Island" and shows Australia :)))
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl
<Kamping_Kaiser> the kiwis are weird ;P
<ebees> Thinking of which; did you know there are more sheep per capita in Aus than in NZ
<ebees> I was completely surprised
<ebees> <shakes head>
<Kamping_Kaiser> not supprised, we have a lot mroe land to put them in... we dont have to share our beds
<Kamping_Kaiser> (is that CoC compliant?)
<ebees> ???
<ebees> Coc?
<Kamping_Kaiser> code of conduct
<Kamping_Kaiser> !coc
<ubotu> The Ubuntu Code of Conduct to which we ask all Ubuntu users to adhere can be found at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/
<ebees> just looking
<ebees> "Be respectful"  - bugger. Sometimes the truth cannot be spoken ;0
<Kamping_Kaiser> ebees, also /join #ubuntu-au
<Kamping_Kaiser> yeh, we (in -au) have been arguing over what that means (be respectfull)
<ebees> Hey Kaiser... where on earth did you pick up that name (I was going to say 'handle" but that'd give away something I used to do :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> um. playing counterstrike .... :P
<ebees> Yeah, but Kamping ???
<ebees> ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> its a skill ;P
<ebees> we're all men of the world. You can tell me
<ebees> What? Scouts?
<Kamping_Kaiser> rofl no
<Kamping_Kaiser> camping in FPS's and not having other gamers kick your arse for it
<ebees> what is camping?
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh
<Kamping_Kaiser> i see.
<ebees> Remember I'm from Sydney :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> so your nto a gamer?
<ebees> No, wish I had the time
<Kamping_Kaiser> where you choose a gun (usually a 1 hit kill jobbie) and hide in a corner/out of the way
<Kamping_Kaiser> then dont move, and blast anything that goes past
<ebees> I see. A sniper
<Kamping_Kaiser> basicly yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> but that level of skill is optional ;P
<ebees> dangerous. In real life,  often if they got caught people did quite nasty things to them.
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes, but i pick my battles... i /dont/ do that stuff in real life
<ebees> Thank goodness... mind you, you said you were from Adelaid..,. and we all know how many loonies live in SA. In NSW we just have them in Parliament :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> looool. scary but true... but you also put yours in canberra
<ebees> US? What about you lot... oh, I see. You mean we SURROUND them... it's part of sneaky plan actually :)
<ebees> We're just waiting.. biding our time... patience is required.
<Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*
<ebees> I'm just adding you to my 'watched nicks" :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> heheehe
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'll be in -au again starting some time next week (probably thursday evening)
<ebees> I'd love to play online....
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'v been having some time off
<ebees> I'm going to join 
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<ebees> is there some easy way to join #ubuntu-au automatically withouth manually adding the group?
<ebees> I RARELY use IRC
<Kamping_Kaiser> what irc client are you using?
<ebees> konversation
* Kamping_Kaiser shrug
<Kamping_Kaiser> i havent used it :)
<ebees> yeah, me too
<ebees> ooops. crossed comms
<ebees> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<ebees> what do you use?
<Kamping_Kaiser> Xchat2/irssi (as needed)
<ebees> what is that?
* Kamping_Kaiser has the doze version of xchat
<Kamping_Kaiser> incase its needed :)
<ebees> what is that?
<Kamping_Kaiser> xchat? irc client. mirc clone (i hear)
<ebees> never heard of it. Though I try to keep up-to-date I've not used IRC for years.
<ebees> I used ICQ <cough  - windows days> when it first came out... but then I've stopped many a bad habit :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> its gtk, so if your usign gnome/xfce it would look better then if you use kde. dont know how the kde clients go for irc
<Kamping_Kaiser> heh. i use gaim for my icq
<ebees> Me too.
<ebees> It's pretty good. THough when someone on a Mac tried to send a file it crashes
<ebees> I have rels that we vid conference with
<ebees> they're on Macs in HK
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, i dont do fancy stuff like that
<ebees> It's brilliant
<Kamping_Kaiser> if i need files copied, i give someone an ssh acount :)
<ebees> crossed comms sorry
<ebees> ssh to your machine?
<ebees> whoops... very late
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe. yes
<ebees> kids are going to be awake at the crack of dawn
<ebees> and I have to go to work ... bugger
<Kamping_Kaiser> darn. i better let you sleep
<ebees> Nice speaking/writing to you. I'll join the other group too.
<ebees> thanks for the info
<ebees> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> no worries :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> just hit me if you need a hand
<ebees> No probs.. though I don't have stick that big.. Can I remote connect to one closer to where you live LOL
<ebees> Linux :) Brilliant!
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<ebees> thanks again. Hopefully we can connect again and you can tell me how many poor buggers you've shot in the arse :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe, catch you tehn mate :)
<ebees> Oh, you should take some screen video so I can have a laugh :))
<ebees> 'night
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<ctkroeker> Has anyone gotten the new edubuntu edgy to serve ltsp clients?
<stgraber> yes, what's your problem ?
<ctkroeker> Thedefault install does not have the /opt/i386/ltsp directory, hence, it can't serve clients
<ctkroeker> fuse isn't installed, neither is ssh
<stgraber> did you choose the Workstation install ?
<stgraber> normally you choose the first option of the menu ("Install to disk")
<stgraber> and that's good
<stgraber> it asks you what's your primary network card
<ctkroeker> This is fom the DVD disk, I did the default install
<ctkroeker> nope
<ctkroeker> doesn't ask the net. card
<stgraber> did you see the "Build LTSP chroot" part of the install ?
<stgraber> it should take around 5-6 minutes, so you should have seen it if you were around during the install
<ctkroeker> It never showed me that part
<stgraber> so it did a classical Workstation installation, not the LTSP one
<ctkroeker> it wasn't a text install, it was the live version with the "Install" icon on the desktop
<ctkroeker> guess so, but the dvd doesn't have an option for server install
<stgraber> hmm, the live install is only for the workstation (if they didn't change it last minute)
<stgraber> the LTSP install is text mode
<ctkroeker> oh, k
<stgraber> btw, I never tried the DVD
<ctkroeker> I'll try it again when I get back to work
<stgraber> k
<ctkroeker> post back later if I need more help, thanks
<stgraber> np
<LaserJock> hi ogra 
<sbalneav> Morning all
<LaserJock> hi sbalneav 
<sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> sbalneav: you in Mt. View?
<sbalneav> No, we're still at the LTSP conference now, doing some wiki work.
<sbalneav> We'll head down there after dinner tonight.
<LaserJock> where is the LTSP conf. ?
<sbalneav> We'll all be in MTV by bedtime.
<sbalneav> At Giardelli's in San Fransisco.
<sbalneav> The ocean's about 200 feet away.
<sbalneav> Look out the window, across the street, and there it is.
<sbalneav> I can see alcatraz and Fishermans wharf
* highvoltage will be watching
<LaserJock> Giardelli's ?
<LaserJock> awesome
<LaserJock> I love it there
<sbalneav> It's nice, we got a conference room here for 2 days for $400 smackers.
<sbalneav> Which is GREAT for downtown SF
<cbx33> hey people
<highvoltage> hey see bee ex
<cbx33> ummm....wanted to ask about UDS and ekiga
<cbx33> someone said ekiga will be used at UDS for long distance participation
<LaserJock> cbx33!!
<cbx33> LaserJock, !!!
<cbx33> dude how are you
<LaserJock> cbx33: yeah: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate/Ekiga?highlight=%28ubuntudevelopersummit%29
<LaserJock> cbx33: I'm at my grandpa's house
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> LaserJock, howz it going
<LaserJock> oh, it's going
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> I always have too much to do and not enough time
<cbx33> oh dear
<LaserJock> but I'm trying to relax a little here at my grandpas
* cbx33 just tested with ekiga, which worked
<cbx33> but I can't connect again
<cbx33> how does this ekiga thing work...if I wanted to phone LaserJock  you for example
<LaserJock> you can put in my ekiga address thingy
<cbx33> do you have an account with someone?
<LaserJock> hang on a sec
<LaserJock> cbx33:  try sip:laserjock@ekiga.net
<cbx33> ok hang on
<cbx33> remote user is unreachable
<cbx33> is that ekiga.net hingy free?
<LaserJock> try it now
<LaserJock> yeah
<cbx33> ok
<LaserJock> I think you connected
<cbx33> connected...then got some strange noise
<cbx33> did you hear me say hi?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> I didn't say anything though
<nixternal> ooh kphone
<stgraber> any idea of why my ekiga crash when trying to find my NAT type ?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: you here?
<highvoltage> yes
<highvoltage> what's the chances, I was just going to ask you and ogra's opinion on something
<highvoltage> but you can go first.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: Kalzium is implementing that new periodic table
<LaserJock> carsten just told me now he just added it
<highvoltage> heh!
<highvoltage> he doesn't waste time now does he.
<highvoltage> LaserJock, ogra: we're basing the tuxlab installation cd on the ubuntu live cd infrastructure, it makes life for me so much easier
<highvoltage> but...
<highvoltage> people have complained that the live cd takes up a lot of memory and that it won't be installable on old pc's, and that it doesn't have a rescue environment like the alternate cd.
<highvoltage> so today, I worked on a tool to fix it. it's still ugly, and needs work, but here's a screenshot:
<highvoltage> http://jonathancarter.co.za/albums/screenshots/dvd.sized.png
<highvoltage> it starts up instead of the xsession, so that the user can choose to run ubiquity directly, skipping the entire desktop.
<highvoltage> it also gives them the option of running a terminal that will launch an ncurses menu for rescuing grub, getting a shell and some other less usefull things.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: that's at boot?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yes
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well, as soon as X starts up
<highvoltage> not at boot really
<highvoltage> that window is centered on the screen, it's just python and glade
<LaserJock> hmm, so it boots and gets to where it would normally log into gnome
<LaserJock> and instead you have a menu
<highvoltage> yes
<highvoltage> it saves memory on old pc's because you don't have to run gnome + installer
<highvoltage> ubuntu doesn't currently install well on some machines with 256MB RAM
<highvoltage> do you think this could go into ubuntu if it's polished up real nicely?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: check out http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kalziumhextv0.png
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well I personally like the idea
<highvoltage> boobies
<LaserJock> highvoltage: but I just don't know what the Ubuntu core guys will think
<highvoltage> that kalzium screenshot looks quite cool
<highvoltage> things are moving so fast these days
<ogra> LaserJock, who cares, its a customized CD ...
<ogra> highvoltage, looks nice
<LaserJock> ogra: well, he asked if it could go into Ubuntu
<ogra> how much mem does it save ? the CD still needs to load the squashfs, no ? so i imagine you wont gain much ...
<pygi> ogra: can I pm you with a question? :)
<highvoltage> ogra: I understand it's a customised cd, I was just thinking that it would be nice to have similar (or the same) functionality in the ubuntu system
<highvoltage> well, you save at least the memory used by an entire gnome session
<ogra> highvoltage, talk to Kamion/cjwatson then 
<highvoltage> that's a few dozen MB
<LaserJock> yeah, 256MB is the keey
<LaserJock> it seems like we are right at the line
<highvoltage> ok, I think I'll send it to them when it's more polished up. it's probably too late for feisty anyway.
<LaserJock> when you factor in shared graphic memory
<LaserJock> some machines with 256MB don't seem to work
<highvoltage> yep. I've seen ubuntu fail plenty of times on 256MB machines, where kubuntu and xubuntu work fine.
<highvoltage> but yes, not really an edubuntu issue.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: who else is working on gperiodic?
<highvoltage> is it likely that gperiodic will now get the new tables now that kalzium has it?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: gperiodic is dead
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm working on gchemutils a little
<LaserJock> highvoltage: which is done by jbrefort 
<LaserJock> it's going to be a really cool chemistry suite
<highvoltage> ah ok. I didn't realise.
<highvoltage> I didn't know about gchemicals, is it new?
<LaserJock> ghemical or gchemutils?
<highvoltage> sorry, misread. gchemutils
<highvoltage> ah, I see it's in the repositories, so not new then.
<LaserJock> gchemutils has been around for a while
<LaserJock> but it's struggled to get into Debian/Ubuntu
<LaserJock> we have a pretty old version
<LaserJock> we need to get some of the deps packaged better, etc.
<highvoltage> ah yes, I've seen this before.
<LaserJock> there is chemical-mime-data, gchempaint, and gchemutils
<LaserJock> all done by jbrefort 
<jbrefort> chemical-mime-data are by dleidert ;)
<LaserJock> but I think the debichem project will get things in better shape
<LaserJock> we need to get bodr and the rest up-to-date
<highvoltage> would be nice to get in edubuntu too
<LaserJock> yeah, once things are together in feisty
<LaserJock> I"m going to make a custom chemistry Ubuntu CD
<LaserJock> ghemical, gchemutils, and a couple other apps
<jbrefort> this makes me think I must send a couple of patches related to ghemical ;)
<LaserJock> jbrefort: how is the interaction between the 2?
<jbrefort> ghemical and gchempaint ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<jbrefort> edit formulas in gchempant and open them in ghemical is a two clicks operation
<jbrefort> if ghemical is there, when you right click on a molecule in gchempaint, you have a menu entry to export the molecule to ghemical and it opens ghemical with the molecule loaded
<jbrefort> then , you can has hydrogens and optimize the geometry
<jbrefort> s/has/add/
<LaserJock> that is so sweet
<LaserJock> that's the kind of thing that's going to rock
<jbrefort> though there are some issues with polycyclic aliphatic componds (decaline generally has only one chair, the other cycle being in the cross boat conformation
<LaserJock> ah
<jbrefort> it's already in gchempaint 0.6.x
<pygi> wb ogra :P
<theresa> good evening everyone!
<ogra> hi
<theresa> i have a few questions regarding edubuntu!
<ogra> shoot :)
<theresa> i'm on kubuntu at the moment....would I only have to install certains applications/packages that edubuntu uses, or will i have to install the whole desktop? i just wanna try a few things...
<ogra> then i'd just pick the single apps ... which apps are that ?
<ogra> (the ones you want to try)
<theresa> well, i'm totally new to edubuntu, and I'm thinking about baseing my bachelor assignment on edubuntu, maybe doing a case study to see how kids (at my old highschool) react to it and if they find it useful compared to any other windows applications?!
<ogra> if you want to give them the ful experience, i'd go with a liveCD :)
<ogra> *full
<theresa> but before I approach any professor at my uni about the idea/project I would have to mess around a bit to get an idea of what I'm going/wanting to do...
<theresa> true, haven't thought about that yet!
<theresa> good idea!
<pygi> ^_^
<ogra> ;)
<theresa> i'd love the idea of spreading the ubuntu love AND doing my bachelor assignment at the same time :)
* pygi is become boring with "^_^" so he'll just stop for some time ;P
<LaserJock> heh
<theresa> what do you guys think? is it a good idea?
<ogra> indeed !
<theresa> i've only seen a few screenshots but edubuntu looks promising :)
<theresa> without me being a teacher actually....
<sbalneav> ls
<sbalneav> w
<LaserJock> sbalneav: I think that's /names in irc ;-)
<sbalneav> Whoops
<pygi> theresa: promoting edubuntu is always a good idea ;)
<theresa> pygi: what experiences do you have with edubuntu so far?
<pygi> theresa: only positive ones ^_^ Did several real-world implementations, holded several presentations about it, and contributing to it's development :)
<theresa> pygi: what do you mean by "real-world implementations" ?
<pygi> theresa: well, implementations in schools ^_^
<theresa> pygi: cool, and how were the kids reactions to it? and what did the teachers say about it?
<pygi> theresa: everything went smoothly :)
<theresa> pygi: great to hear that, but could you please be a bit more precise?
<pygi> theresa: in what way? :)
<LaserJock> theresa: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7
<theresa> pygi: for example, how did you motivate the kids to use edubuntu rather than sticking to the old software, or were there any problems for example porting a certain application to edubuntu (if it wasn
<theresa> if it wasn't available on edubuntu already...
<pygi> theresa: I formed a team, we wrote a book
<pygi> teachers used that book, ...
<pygi> no Windows, they used Edubuntu :)
<theresa> pygi: ahh i see, i thought about going to my highschool (students would be from age 10-18)
<theresa> pygi: how old were these kids?
<pygi> theresa: high school :)
<pygi> but high school is 14-18
<theresa> yeah maybe we have a different schooling system here ;)
<pygi> indeed :)
#edubuntu 2006-11-05
<theresa> do you think edubuntu is more suited for kids from 10-14 or is there something useful for kids above this age?
<pygi> In general Edubuntu currently fits more to primary school, and partly high school (according to your system)
<pygi> but there are a lot of apps you can install for older folks
<LaserJock> Edubuntu has access to the same software repositories as Ubuntu
<LaserJock> so you can install lots of software
<pygi> and we're working hard to add support for high schools and uni's by default in the future
<pygi> theresa: indeed
<theresa> excellent cool!
<theresa> is there a list of apps?
<pygi> theresa: just use synaptic to see the available software
<theresa> ah ook
<theresa> this case study might be useful for the edubuntu development team as well? if i get a proper reaction from the kids on what they want and what they need, maybe it could be worked on for the future?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> we are very much interested in case studies
<LaserJock> and people experiences
<theresa> hmm i think it'd be much more interesting to do this with older kids though, because they maybe have more interest in computers already.... (i'm talking about kids from 12-17/28)
<theresa> *18 not 28
<theresa> personally i'm not soo good with the wee ones ;) hehe
<theresa> apart from that most applications seem to be in english, and our kids start learning english from 10 onwards, so it might be a bit difficult...
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm interested in high school and university students
<theresa> excellent :)
<theresa> hmm I have another question...how do you proceed, if someone suddenly asks what the point is of using edubuntu or ubuntu anyway if the whole world uses windows....(the free and open source argument) won't work for students or people who are not really interested in computers anyway because they wouldn't understand the whole philosophy without getting into too much detail...
<pygi> theresa: make folks in Austria to translate Edubuntu apps ;)
<theresa> pygi: good idea, i'll best start myself with it ;)
<pygi> theresa: ^_^
<pygi> theresa: if you need any help with assembling the team (if there is no LoCo already. let me know)
<theresa> what's a LoCo
<LaserJock> theresa: this is were we translate: https://launchpad.net/rosetta
<pygi> theresa: Localization team
<theresa> oh yeah I've heard about Rosetta
<LaserJock> theresa: sometimes it's good to find things that the students can do with Ubuntu that they can't with Windows
<theresa> hmm true, but without being unrespectful, is there anything that can't be done with windows?
<LaserJock> yes
<theresa> pygi: what does the Localization team do?
<LaserJock> well not so much "can't" but it's much easier and more available
<pygi> theresa: translates, promotes ubuntu in it's country, organizes release partly, translation maratons, helps users get started with ubuntu, etc, etc
<LaserJock> theresa: those are teams made up of people from the same country/region
<theresa> excellent, sounds good to me! where and how can i get in touch with the austrian based team?
<pygi> theresa: just tried to found your team. You country initials are "at", right?
<theresa> yep
<pygi> there currently doesn't seem to exist the ubuntu austrian loco team
<theresa> :(
<LaserJock> theresa: #ubuntu-at
<pygi> or am I mistaken? LaserJock, correct me?
<LaserJock> theresa: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AustriaTeam
* pygi is confused by not seeying the team on LP but he just remembered...
<pygi> that the teams must stand up to be officialy recognized
<theresa> yeah the team seems very smallish...
<pygi> for now perhaps ^_^ It can get bigger ...
<theresa> oh i'm afraid I got to go now.....i'm tired and ready for bed ;)
<theresa> thanks for listening and for your advice, i'm sure I'll get back to you sooner rather than later ;)
<MacAnthony> quick question: I just installed edgy - what are the chances that very few packages need updates?
<MacAnthony> I'm trying to figure out if I have and am using synaptic right
<MacAnthony> it only said I had 3 updates
<jsgotangco> that's right
<jsgotangco> there aren't that much updates yet
<MacAnthony> ok, I just want to be sure, thanks :)
<crimsun> unless you happened to have all the packages installed that received updates.
<crimsun> even then it's fewer than ten
<MacAnthony> just the core install from the cd, crimsun 
* mode/#edubuntu [+o highvoltage]  by ChanServ
* mode/#edubuntu [-o his_dudnes]  by highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey Nuffing 
* mode/#edubuntu [-o highvoltage]  by highvoltage
<Nuffing> hey highvoltage  :)
<Nuffing> I have claimed this HP tablet and d/led all the stuff I needed to get myself connected to the world again :)
<Nuffing> are you in SF?
<highvoltage> nope, at home.
<highvoltage> I finally have fast reliable internet at home again.
<highvoltage> are you?
<Nuffing> I can't understand why anyone still uses IE, it sucks SO badly compared to firefox
<Nuffing> are me what?
<Nuffing> in SF?
<Nuffing> nah, home 
<Nuffing> my turn to babysit ;)
<highvoltage> ah :)
<Nuffing> anyway off to the gym, back later *wave*
<cbx33> hey ogra good morning
<edubuntugirl> good morning cbx33 
<cbx33> hello edubuntugirl 
<edubuntugirl> salut, cbx33!
<pygi> hey ho cbx33 
<cbx33> hi pygi 
<cbx33> howaz it going
<pygi> cbx33: busy :)
<jsgotangco> hey hey
<pygi> hello js
<edubuntugirl> hey!!
<fdr> Hello out there -- is anyone up?
<jsgotangco> hi
<fdr> Hello; I was wondering if I could pose an open question for some mulling
<fdr> sort of a thing to speak about in generalities
<Burgundavia> fdr: shoot
<fdr> alright. Some quick background about at what level you can talk to me: I'm primarily a computer-science sort and do my sysadmining on a hand-to-mouth basis, but I would like to do a little bit of surveying to see if I can help my old high school
<fdr> basically, I'd like to avoid using remote X servers on thin clients
<Burgundavia> why so?
<fdr> and instead use LTSP to simply boot the machine into a stateless, minimal X environment that will run Nomachine's NX instead
<fdr> Or even give the user an option, as long as NX runs on the local X server
<fdr> I have found NX to be blazing fast and it'd be nice to give users the option to use it outside the local lab that will be using network bootloading to access the machine
<fdr> plus I don't think their network infrastructure is the best
<fdr> basically, I've found NX to be even faster than my experience with Sun Rays, which use something more similar to LTSP
<fdr> Anyway, that's all.
<fdr> You can try to convince me that perhaps that step is unnecessary, and simply running the nx daemon and using the standard remote X is speedy, even on 10 megabit lines
<Burgundavia> sorry, you are asking the wrong person about remote X stuff
<Burgundavia> ogra is the person you need to talk to, but it is 3am where we are right now
<fdr> ah. Which is where I am
<fdr> just a bit of insomnia 
<fdr> okay. I'll come back at a more godly hour.
<fdr> but thank you for listening to my spiel.
<Burgundavia> NX has issues, that is what I understand
<fdr> really? I've used it for some time now without problems -- please tell me more
<Burgundavia> they relate to licensing and code duplication, from what I understand
<Burgundavia> I could be incorrect in that
<fdr> code duplication? What is meant by that? I do know it has nasty interactions with Cygwin that can be gotten around
<Burgundavia> code duplication with X
<crimsun> posh, you love the included X Window System code in NX's source!
<fdr> oh, you mean being its own little X server?
<fdr> or something like that? 
<fdr> it also has some GPL components nowadays
<fdr> I know a server can be had completely free of entanglement
<crimsun> screams maintenance nightmare, among other things
<highvoltage> fdr: hi there
<fdr> hello
<highvoltage> fdr: ogra did say he wants to investigate the open source nx stuff for edubuntu
<fdr> hey, if it works it works, unless you can tell me about a remoting method more efficient than NX for GNU/Linux
<highvoltage> if it makes it into edubuntu it will probably only be for the release made late next year
<Burgundavia> crimsun: I don't need to tell you the pain of upgrading our custom hacks from 6.8.2 to something newer
<fdr> I think that's sensible, but I'm not asking for a nice lickable integration
<highvoltage> custom hacks love biting you in the ass
<fdr> I can install NX okay, my actual question can be reduced to this abstract query:
<fdr> how can I make LTSP run a program locally using the local X server
<fdr> I've heard it be done, but I want to ask how kludgey or whatnot it is
<highvoltage> in most basic terms, you need to install the application into your ltsp chroot
<highvoltage> then you basically ssh to your local machine and run the program
<highvoltage> it's not implemented in LTSP yet, but it seems likely that it will be implemented in the next version of Edubuntu
<highvoltage> it depends on the ubuntu authentication server being implemented.
<fdr> to what? do use the local machine to run particular stuff?
<highvoltage> yes.
<fdr> hmm. well, my cursory survey seemed to suggest that was done by some, but it was just cursory. It's good to know that it's not quite there yet, but will be Real Soon Now
<highvoltage> so if you want to run firefox using local cpu + ram, you'd install it in chroot,
<fdr> yeah, that's okay
<highvoltage> then from the thin client, you ssh into the thin client (nfs mounted chroot running locally) and display it locally
<highvoltage> there were ways to do it with LTSP 4.2
<highvoltage> but it's very experimental and not user friendly.
<fdr> okay.
<fdr> hmm.
<fdr> so basically xtunnel locally. that is sort of evil
<highvoltage> fdr: if you are looking for a DIY solution, look for local apps on http://wiki.ltsp.org
<highvoltage> it's evil, but there's not really any other way.
<fdr> it's good enough, probably
<highvoltage> it's good enought for anything that's not 3D
<fdr> that's perfectly fine
<highvoltage> I don't think you can run quake 3 over an ssh tunnel
<highvoltage> even if it's local :)
<highvoltage> but for things like firefox with flash... it will run nicely
<fdr> hah. well, maybe when we don't have to use direct frame buffers 
<fdr> it's basically just to reduce load on the network, though. When I was in college I suffered along using tunneled X and thin clients with X (which were better, as they were on the LAN, but still quite lagiful)
<fdr> but in a relatively impoverished public school with ad-hoc everything, I feel like it'd be useful to investigate the NX option
<fdr> but thank you for your help
<fdr> I think that's probably enough for me to go ahead and do it
<fdr> two other resources that make be good for people looking for such solutions:
<fdr> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DisklessUbuntuHowto
<fdr> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPFatClients
<highvoltage> :)
* highvoltage is running LTSP Fat clients in some schools and public terminals
<fdr> oh? are you using the loopback X tunnel?
<highvoltage> nope
<fdr> oh, so you're doing the mount the remote system?
<highvoltage> yep
<fdr> how has that been working for you?
<highvoltage> the entire system is install in the chroot
<highvoltage> and then *everything* runs locally.
<highvoltage> it works well.
<highvoltage> the biggest setup we use is a lab with 27 computers that running as fat diskless machines
<highvoltage> and it works well.
<fdr> that's good news
<highvoltage> i thought that the server would run out of disk bandwidth, but the disks aren't a problem at all.
<fdr> that's good
<highvoltage> I do run out of network bandwidth on the server though.
<highvoltage> one gbit card is *just* not enough
<fdr> oh? when serving up apps?
<fdr> and home dirs?
<fdr> I guess caching web browsing could also be a big one
<highvoltage> well, if you're running diskless fat, then everything mounted from the server, filesystem, home dirs, everything.
<fdr> I see a lot of random seeks and writes in your future. yes.
<fdr> okay. that makes sense.
<highvoltage> web browsing isn't that slow
<highvoltage> it gets slow when 27 kids open openoffice at the same time
<fdr> although stuff like that will put some heavy load on the disks if the lab is at high occupancy
<highvoltage> not *too* slow, but slower than doing 10
<fdr> ouch
<fdr> hmm.
<highvoltage> and you can see on the server the network traffic is maxed out
<highvoltage> everything else is fine.
<fdr> oh, alright.
<fdr> so it's mostly app loads then
<fdr> I suppose one could do some fancy prefetching to get rid of that, but probably not worth it
<fdr> yeah. I think I like the fat, diskless client is in the right league with what I want. No use having perfectly good cycles go to waste, although on even more pathetic machines I'd like to make remoting into the big machine a viable option
<highvoltage> you could have readahead that ubuntu uses to boot to do that, but it probably is just more worth while adding another network card.
<highvoltage> on weaker machines thin clients is the way to go
<fdr> yeah. there's sort of an eclectic collection at hand here
<highvoltage> and on the machines inbetween, thin clients but that run some local apps
<fdr> okay. so I guess a mixed shop may be good.
<fdr> one final wrinkle:
<fdr> LTSP for the truly pathetic hardware, fat clients running most stuff locally for good-ish hardware...what about making the fat client setup remotable, 1:1?
<fdr> sounds like you'd have to network boot a client (so it's in the chroot) and then have it be the NX server
<fdr> alternatively, this may be a good use of some sort of virtualization
<highvoltage> fat clients run everything locally
<highvoltage> you can't run some locally and some not
<highvoltage> you're right, it has some *great* use cases for virtualisation
<fdr> that I understand, but what if I wanted the ability to NX into some machine that gives me the exact same setup (more or less) as the fat client
<highvoltage> it's something that my company is invesgtigating.
<highvoltage> ah yes, you could do that.
<highvoltage> although it's not very user friently
<highvoltage> so the user would have to use nx only for certain applications?
<fdr> or if they felt like it
<fdr> I think the main purpose is to make it universal feeling
<fdr> eg, not have to maintain the chroot to be == to the terminal server-ish thing
<fdr> but instead have a machine--virtual or otherwise--booted from the chroot with the one exception of having NX/VNC server, etc
<fdr> alternatively, it may not so bad to run NX server on every fat client. that's probably good enough
<fdr> so there's no edge case, just pick any fat client (preferably a fast one) to NX into
<fdr> but what are your thoughts on that? 
<fdr> there are wrinkles, but are they critical?
<highvoltage> not really
<highvoltage> there's one big dependency though, and that's authentication.
<highvoltage> and from the edubuntu side, that will be implemented by an ubuntu team
<fdr> in what sense?
<highvoltage> and we're reliant on them to finish that before it goes into edubuntu
<highvoltage> in the sense that it causes a time delay for implementation in edubuntu
<fdr> well, I don't think I have a clear idea about what the purpose of "authentication" in this specific case
<fdr> eg, what is being authenticated, et al
<highvoltage> yes we do.
<highvoltage> just a sec...
<fdr> yeah, web page reading time...
<highvoltage> fdr: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-fat-clients
<highvoltage> fdr: click on the dependencies in that flowchart and it will link to explanations
<fdr> so, in this case, you are trying to prevent any old machine from being able to remote boot?
<fdr> and controlling various services
<fdr> okay. I think I can say that this battle can be fought another day, in my use case
<fdr> it would be nice to set aside one machine/virtualization to be the NX-serverized copy of the fat client 
<fdr> as opposed to having it deployed/hot to all diskless fat clients
<highvoltage> just be careful not to overcomplicate your setup. :)
<highvoltage> someone will have to be able to take it over when you leave one day, remember that.
<fdr> yeah. I guess standard LTSP + fat LTSP and just let every fat client run NX
<fdr> the worst use case I can think of is annoying students shelling into another machine and then trying to load it down to annoy someone
<fdr> but that's probably something that just needs a stern lecture for
<fdr> ...that and systematically using a root exploit to mobilize the herd of fat clients
<fdr> again...edge case
<highvoltage> you can't root exploit the fat clients any more than you can a thin client
<highvoltage> the fat client filesystem is mounted read-only
<highvoltage> so it's not like you can get some kind of single user mode and change the root password :)
<highvoltage> actually, if you do get some kind of single user mode, the machine would die, since it's reliant on the network to work
<fdr> right. I'm getting sloppy.
<fdr> that having been said, if your fat clients are all enabled with NX and thus openssh listening students can shell to various computers, for good for for ill
<fdr> I seem to recall making good use of idle fat clients for testing out various heuristics 
<fdr> in at least one course
<fdr> let's assume neither: "for awesome"
<fdr> again, thank you. I should try to get some real work done
<highvoltage> i'm off to the gym, bbl
<highvoltage> fdr: talk to you again
<fdr> alright. Thanks so much for your pearls of wisdom.
<fdr> 4AM for the win.
<sorush20> hi any parental control programs for linux around ? 
<pygi> sorush20, what specific features are you looking for?
<sorush20> just blocking of keywords contained in a site and sites itself 
<sorush20> my router does offer somthing like this but it not working well.. 
<pygi> sorush20, you can use willow-ng for that + epiphany
<sorush20> what about something at the router level? 
<pygi> not sure about that part, sorry
<bddebian> Howdy
<pygi> hey bddebian :)
<highvoltage> sorush20: privoxy could do that at router level
<jsgotangco> peh
<highvoltage> meh
<jsgotangco> its strange
<jsgotangco> i can't connect to uds-mv on sip
<jsgotangco> on the pages shown in the wiki
<jsgotangco> but i tried using gizmo to connect, i get the echo test
<jsgotangco> wahahaha
<stgraber> strange, twinckle didn't work ?
<jsgotangco> nope
<stgraber> for me it works fine, except that my microphone volume is too low (even with mic boost ...)
<jsgotangco> pretty strange for me, well there isnt anything happening over there on a sunday for sure so i can still check what's wrong
* jsgotangco gotta sleep first
<stgraber> all I had to do is to start, enter the username / pass they gave me and I had the "registration succeeded" message
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> weird
<highvoltage> pygi: nice one on the burning team!
<pygi> highvoltage, thanks ^_^
<pygi> highvoltage, ubuntu has a lot of problems in this field, and since I'm familiar with it,I figured why not help  :)
<highvoltage> pygi: I think it's great that you do. I'll be keeping an eye on the project, I think it's much needed.
<pygi> already did some bug fixing, preparing deb-diffs for feisty, trying to understand who the hell did the package of brasero in debian, etc, etc
<pygi> hey js, cb
<cbx33> hey py
<cbx33> you know if we shortened everyones nick
<cbx33> we'd still know who they were ;)
<pygi> :P
<cbx33> see jsgotangco colin thinks my connection is solid ;)
<pygi> :P
<highvoltage> cbx33: are still going to MTV? I remember you said something about maybe not being able to go.
<jsgotangco> hehe
<lguerra> hi all
<UltraGuy8> hello everyone
<pygi> he
<pygi> hey
<UltraGuy8> I am a complete beginner to Linux and want to experiment with it on my laptop, is Edubuntu a good distribution for a beginner?
<pygi> do you think you'll need some Edu applications? 
<pygi> you could install it as workstation
<stgraber> Edubuntu is Ubuntu but with educational software and is more designed for schools, maybe should you try Ubuntu
<cbx33> highvoltage, no...I'm not able to go
<pygi> cb, dont mention it
<UltraGuy8> well essentially I will be using my laptop fro school
<UltraGuy8> for
<UltraGuy8> do I lose anything by installing edubuntu rather than ubuntu?
<stgraber> I don't think, you will just have more extra packages added
<FunnyLookinHat> UltraGuy8, I am not sure that edubuntu is what you will need as a student necessarily...  It's main advantages tend to be seen in elementary and middle school learning areas with it's extra packages
<stgraber> I got an Ubuntu on my laptop and an Edubuntu on my workstation (for testing / debuging) and except the desktop theme and the educational software, I don't see any difference
<FunnyLookinHat> Don't get me wrong, it's a great distribution... I'm just not so sure I can see you using tux-paint ever for school work  : )
<stgraber> or gcompris :)
<FunnyLookinHat> agreed.  ; 
<FunnyLookinHat> ; )
<stgraber> yes, maybe the best idea is to install a classical Ubuntu and then add the software you want (for example kalzium, kig, kmplot that can be useful)
<stgraber> both Ubuntu and Edubuntu use the same packages list, then you will find all the edubuntu's software in your Ubuntu's synaptic
<stgraber> FunnyLookinHat: That would be a great thing to be able to choose the school level at the begining of the install
<FunnyLookinHat> stgraber, It really would.  And to choose whether you want it to be more of a teacher's classroom management computer, or a student's lab-type computer.
<FunnyLookinHat> Are you involved in edubuntu development?
<cbx33> Well, I think this release the focus will be al ittle more geared to generecism
<cbx33> well I hope so at least
<pygi> cbx33, you are right
<pygi> we do have some plans for making Edu closer to high school and uni use cases
<cbx33> The wallpaper this release increases this sense of genercism
<stgraber> indeed :)
<cbx33> and I hope it will be reflected in the our choice of apps and such
<FunnyLookinHat> oh ok...  How easy is it to take the thin-client software and implement it with a fresh install of edubuntu between, say 5 computers and a main server?  That could be another area to focus on adding usability in an installation method
<highvoltage> geez. generecism... genercism... these are weird words to me.
<cbx33> FunnyLookinHat, EASY
<pygi> highvoltage, hehe
<cbx33> sorry highvoltage 
<FunnyLookinHat> cbx33, O RLY?   sweetness.  To be honest I've only messed around with edubuntu slightly, I've had to order another KVM switch to get my workstations setup well enough to start really tinkering.
<cbx33> FunnyLookinHat, LTSP setup is really really simple
<cbx33> esp if it's all on one network, and the LTSP server is your dhcp server
<highvoltage> cbx33: :)
<cbx33> at work I have a windows DHCP server which serves the whole school and it was still a piece of cake to setup
<FunnyLookinHat> cbx33, what if you use a router such as a linksys as your dhcp server?  I'd have to change that then?
<FunnyLookinHat> oh sweet
<cbx33> FunnyLookinHat, yes you would
<cbx33> unless
<cbx33> you have two networks....
<cbx33> have the ltsp server with two network cards
<FunnyLookinHat> right.  well that makes sense with what I've read about ltsp
<cbx33> ;~)
<FunnyLookinHat> I'm one of the edubuntu contacts for my community team so I'm really trying to understand the more fine points of the release and test them thoroughly   : )
<FunnyLookinHat> However, I have to run to work for now...
<FunnyLookinHat> thanks for the info cbx33 
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> np FunnyLookinHat 
<cbx33> how are you highvoltage been a long time since we said hey ;)
<stgraber> cbx33: Are you going to use the VOIP for the UDS ?
<highvoltage> cbx33: I've been working really hard the last 8 days or so, I'm actually slightly frustrated right now
<highvoltage> have *lots* that I have to finish before the end of the work, and the weather is getting real nice and everyone else is starting to get into a party mood
<cbx33> stgraber, indeed I am
<cbx33> awwww
<highvoltage> but I've been productive and I'm happy the way things are going.
* cbx33 never really does that party mood thing
<cbx33> though the past 2 weeks I've been taking it easy
<pygi> highvoltage, nice weather? :P it started to snow yesterday :P
<cbx33> but I'll be busy shortly...
<highvoltage> pygi: heh, we'll we had that here a few months ago when everyone was still miserable :)
<cbx33> new ubuntu sounds - cambio - SCP - artwork - MOTU
<cbx33> and that's just the stuff I've planned
<cbx33> ;)#
<highvoltage> cbx33: I'm working on a lot of things I want to get into edubuntu eventuall, like this: http://photos.jonathancarter.co.za/screenshots/dvd (artwork not final, btw)
<cbx33> hmm...seems my keyboard wants me to have a goaty
<highvoltage> cbx33: so that you can install ubiquity on the live cd without having to log into gnome, or use the live cd as a rescue cd
<cbx33> nice
<cbx33> well I'm hoping to get an alpha version of cambio by the end of the week
<cbx33> drag and drop file conversion applet ;)
<highvoltage> also a gui that lets you choose services you want to start on the livecd, so that you can choose wheter or not you want to start ltsp and schooltool and apache, etc
<cbx33> yes...i beleive ltsp on the live cd is happening for feisty
<cbx33> or should I say....I hope it is
<cbx33> kinda like a preload config util
<highvoltage> yes, but I think users should be able to easily choose whether they want ltsp to run or not
* pygi nods
* cbx33 nodes 
<cbx33> it's like a nod
<cbx33> but more ascertive ;)
<cbx33> who has ekiga here now?
<stgraber> cbx33: I have it, but I use twinkle now (ekiga is a bit buggy ...)
<highvoltage> I thought it's like a nod, but it forks and spreads
<highvoltage> and infects everything
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> twinkle hmmm
<stgraber> yes, that's the currently recommended software for UDS
* cbx33 apt-gets
<cbx33> :( awww it's kde based
<stgraber> yes :(
* cbx33 installs anyway
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Participate
<cbx33> is there any schedule yet for monday>
<stgraber> not that I know, btw I didn't even see the one of today :)
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView <-- that will be here in the schedule part
<pygi> bddebian, ping?
<theresa> hello world!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> Hey RichEd
* ogra waves
<RichEd> hello sbalneav :)
<stgraber> hi RichEd 
<sbalneav> Dudes, why aren't you in the front row.
<sbalneav> It's where all the cool people are!
<ogra> we're shy
<sbalneav> Phhht
<RichEd> fabio is too scary up close
<ogra> :)
<sbalneav> Fabio is fabuloso!
* stgraber thinks that VOIP quality is wonderful :)
* jsgotangco observes in the sidelines not being int he other side of the globe
<sbalneav> I'm in easy-codec-installation
<sbalneav> Making sure codecs work with LTSP
<pygi> sbalneav, we wont have burning over LTSP BOF, right?
<sbalneav> Did you submit a spec for it?
<sbalneav> If not, I'll submit one today, and see if I can beg MDZ to get some time for it
<pygi> I didnt
<pygi> since we really didnt got time to talk about it ...
<sbalneav> ok, let me see what I can do...
<pygi> thanks
<sbalneav> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/ltsp-cd-burning
<sbalneav> Fill in some bits in the wiki page.
<sbalneav> Click on the "read more" link, and do some editing.
<ogra_> sbalneav, hey, thanks for the wiki update on e-d-s
<sbalneav> ogra_: I added the cd burning spec.
<ogra_> great
<ogra_> you also added the edubuntu-directory-server wiki :))
<pygi> sbalneav, I'll add some bits, and get to you then :)
<sbalneav> I've proposed it for a meeting, do I have to beg mdz for time?
<sbalneav> ogra_: Yeah, just going though my schedule, and trying to make things a bit easier for everyone.
<ogra_> sbalneav, yeah, you need t beg mdz
<sbalneav> :|
<ogra_> *to
<sbalneav> Does he still like me? :)
<ogra_> he's very open on that :)
<ogra_> suuure :)
<sbalneav> What's the best way?   Email?
<ogra_> either that or just ask him if you run over him
<ogra_> err ... into indeed :)
<pips1> run over.. hehe
<sbalneav> ok, I'll email now, and if I see him, I'll run him over.
<ogra_> *g*
<sbalneav> ok, sent email.
<ogra_> great
<sbalneav> pygi: start editing :)
<ogra_> nah....
<ogra_> start implementing ;)
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> working code trumps theory every time :)
<ogra_> hehe
<pygi> sbalneav, ogra_ : I'm working on multi session code :P
<ogra_> via ltsp ? wow, great :)
<ogra_> ;)
<sbalneav> LTSP FTW
<ogra_> \o/
<pygi> ogra_, not via LTSP :P
<pygi> don't mess around with me :P
<sbalneav> If you don't want to get messed around with, you're hanging out in the wrong channel.  :) That's what we do best :)
<ogra_> heh
<Nuffing> hi sbalneav :)
<pygi> errghhh :P
<sbalneav> Hello Nuffing
<ogra_> hey Jane !!!!
<Nuffing> sbalneav, oh sorry Nuffing = JaneW
<Nuffing> hey ogra :)
<pygi> Nuffing, yay, hello you :)
<Nuffing> hi pygi
<pygi> long time no see
<sbalneav> Nuffing: Hey Hey!  
<Nuffing> TV is not half as appealing without the foot rub ;)
<sbalneav> :)
<pygi> sbalneav, is it in our scope for example to patch Brasero to make it work over LTSP? :P
<pygi> sbalneav, also trivial editing done, please see and say that everything is bad
<moquist> ogra_: hi :)
<sbalneav> pygi: Looks good.  I'll do some fleshing out a bit later.
<pygi> sbalneav, ok, that's nicer way to say that it's bad :)
<sbalneav> Not bat at all.
<sbalneav> err bad
<pygi> Nuffing, how is you? any good news? :)
<stgraber> for edubuntu people at udsmtv, there is the #edubuntu-uds channel
<highvoltage> were?
<highvoltage> where?
<stgraber> what ?
<highvoltage> where is the edubuntu-uds channel?
<stgraber> on irc, freenode
* stgraber thinks he didn't understand the question :)
<highvoltage> I just find an empty channel when I join it :/
<pygi> hey bddebian 
<bddebian> Heya pygi
<pygi> bddebian, Am I free to bug you? :)
<bddebian> For whatever it's worth, sure
#edubuntu 2007-10-29
<ii> Anyone around to help?
<Kamping_Kaiser> !ask
<ubotu> Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
<ii> OK, I've already been around a couple of days ago...
<ii> Speaking to sbalnaev, ogra ...
<ii> Had a problem mounting USB flash drives on thin-clients...
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah. i probably cant help with that
<ii> Got it working finally - but afterwards found that it only works on ONE client at a time ....
<ii> Who should I speak to?
<Kamping_Kaiser> hang around, hopefully who you spoke to a few days ago will get online
<Kamping_Kaiser> they are probably at UDS though
<ii> Thanks for your time.
<Kamping_Kaiser> no worries, good luck with the problem
<ii> Kamping_Kaiser: While you're around, how about a question about disk quota management - do you know how to set this up?
<Kamping_Kaiser> ii, no. as far as ubuntu goes, i'm stuck in the past - theres probably all sorts of cool and easy ways to set it up, which icant tell you
<ii> OK
<stgraber> RichEd: do we have the edubuntu specs on LP now ?
<RichEd> stgraber: ogra has most of the edubuntu ones in ...
<RichEd> i have the 1st classmate (planning session for the rest of the specs) in as well
<RichEd> and then sorting out the education discussion specs now
<stgraber> ok, I'll subscribe to some of them then
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Kamping_Kaiser> sbalneav, hey mate
<sbalneav> Hello Kamping_Kaiser!
<Kamping_Kaiser> sbalneav, :) hows it going?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i note your at UDS
<sbalneav> I am!
<Kamping_Kaiser> enjoying yourself?
<sbalneav> So far.  We're in the "launchpad 101" right now with Keybuk.
<ubotu> Bug 101 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/101 is private
<Kamping_Kaiser> lol
<sbalneav> I'm not really paying attention, as I'm fairly conversant with launchpad at this point :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
 * Kamping_Kaiser just spotted an email saying 'gobuntu today' - this causes me destinc lack of joy :(
<sbalneav> How come?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm thinking about subbing myself to any specs that involve edubuntu/ubuntu server. see if i can get myself involved again this cycle
<Kamping_Kaiser> Tue Oct 30 00:13:36 CST 2007
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'm meant to be in bed - 2 hours ago :|
<sbalneav> lol
<sbalneav> No rest for the wicked :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :P
<Kamping_Kaiser> i'll be buggered at work tomorrow - oh well, suppose tis to be expected
<Kamping_Kaiser> later mate. enjoy UDS
<bddebian> Heya
<silentmind> I work in a school that has an ancient IT suite, a dozen or so PC's running win98 and they are all networked via a router. my question is, how difficult would it be to get edubuntu working on them with network support?
<silentmind> if I just boot them all off the live CD, will they be able to "see" each other and access the internet?
<HenriqueGogo> please, I want a help: how I install files in my Plam by GNOME-PILOT? (I can syncronize my to do list and address.. but I dont know how I install *.prc or *.pdb br GNOME-PILOT)... please, some help!
<silentmind> HenriqueGogo,  just drag the *.prc on to the gnome pilot icon then sync as usual, works for me
<sbalneav> RichEd: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/uds-boston-2007/
<HenriqueGogo> silentmind: I tried this, but doesnt work
<silentmind> HenriqueGogo, sorry but i dot know what else to suggest
<flint_> RichEd, url or gobby session are you placing the classmate specification in?
<RichEd> will be on a wiki page ... in my notepad now ... will publish after lunch ... prolly around 3:00
<flint_> RichEd, thanks
<Amaranth> http://content.zdnet.com/2346-12355_22-172164.html
<flint_> I just do not use the "zed" word, so sorry...
<LaserJock> hi all
<Burgundavia> hey LaserJock
<LaserJock> Burgundavia: you in Boston?
<desertc> Anyone here from the education profession?
<cliebow__> me..
<richard__> anyone on to help me troubleshoot an issue i'm having?
<flint_> richard__, what kind of issue are you involved with?
<richard__> ltsp
<richard__> clients sometimes freeze and after hard reboot after login come up with black screen and cursor
<desertc> Anyone else an educator?  Seemed to have lost contact with cliebow
<Burgundavia> yep
<LaserJock> haha, I hear Scotty!!
<LaserJock> and Oli
<LaserJock> stgraber: so what's the consensus?
<stgraber> LTSP will be on ubuntu alternate (with a ltsp kernel), then all the education softwares will be on the add-on cd
<LaserJock> so dropping the first CD?
<stgraber> yes, edubuntu being something you add on top of the ubuntu alternate/desktop cd
<LaserJock> stgraber: tell everybody hello
<richard__> clients sometimes freeze and after hard reboot after login come up with black screen and cursor
<richard__> processes for that user continue to run
<LaserJock> RichEd: ping
<stgraber> LaserJock: done
<stgraber> LaserJock: he's talking with cjwatson :)
<LaserJock> k
<RichEd> LaserJock: p0nG
<highvoltage> howzit guys
<richard__> sucky
<LaserJock> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> richard, cant scroll up on this device, so cant read your whole problem
<highvoltage> richard, but what i have done in labs before...
<richard__> clients sometimes freeze and after hard reboot after login come up with black screen and cursor
<highvoltage> is to install slay and add it to the logout scripts
<richard__> processes for that user continue to run so when they log in they get a black screen
<highvoltage> slay kills all the processes of the user its running as ans then itself
<richard__> sbalneav, you are here just in time
<richard__> can you help me with a problem i'm having?
<richard__> clients sometimes freeze and after hard reboot after login come up with black screen and cursor
<richard__> processes for that user continue to run so when they log in they get a black screen
<richard__> .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.ca/754016
<richard__> sbalneav, any idea on above issue?
<sbalneav> Sorry, didn't see it
<sbalneav> Can you repeat?
<richard__> clients sometimes freeze and after hard reboot after login come up with black screen and cursor
<richard__> processes for that user continue to run so when they log in they get a black screen
<richard__> .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.ca/754016
<sbalneav> richard__: Well, if you're not logging out properly, you'll have to do a pkill -u userid to clean out the old processes.
<sbalneav> Using moquists's xterminator would help too.
<richard__> hmm... is there a way to have that run automatically when someone tries to log in with the same username?
<sbalneav> Yes, that's the idea of it.
<sbalneav> moquist: ping
<sbalneav> richard__: keep an eye for moquist, he can help you with it.
<moquist> pongo
<dtrask> He's coming
<moquist> I'm talking with sonja, but I'll keep an eye on here...
<LaserJock> hi moquist and dtrask
<moquist> hey
<dtrask> hey LaserJock
<dtrask> :-)
<sbalneav> moquist: If you can point richard__ at xterminator
<dtrask> hang on....
 * moquist will have to google to find the URL for his own PPA ;)
<moquist> sonja has it. :)
<moquist> richard__: add this line to your /etc/apt/sources.list: http://ppa.launchpad.net/moquist/ubuntu feisty universe
<moquist> richard__: then apt-get install xterminator
<moquist> that's it
<richard__> moquist, on server? what does this do?
<LaserJock> richard__: it kills the left over processes
<LaserJock> ogra!
<ogra> hey
<richard__> so do i install it on the server?
<richard__> or in the chroot?
<LaserJock> I think the server
<richard__> so this kills the left over processes when? is it when a hard reboot is done or is it upon login?
<richard__> moquist, do i install this on the server or in the chroot?
<LaserJock> richard__: it kills the processes on logout I believe
<LaserJock> it should be on the server
<richard__> oh then it won't help me because the issue is when the client doesn't log out properly...
<LaserJock> because when the client is shut down it's processes are killed for sure
<LaserJock> richard__: I think it'll still work
<richard__> ok i'll try it now
<LaserJock> it may be at login, I can't remember
<LaserJock> but people where having similar issues
<LaserJock> and moquist's app seemed to work well for them
<richard__> is there anything to configure?
<LaserJock> no
<richard_> future reference don't type xterminator --help
<dtrask> Oops
<dtrask> Is that why you disappeared?
<dtrask> LOL
<dtrask> whoops!
<richard_> yeah lol
<richard_> that won't happen again
<dtrask> moquist is laughing....because he feels bad and realized what happened
<dtrask> no config....just install....it does the rest
<dtrask> can't remember the file, but you can edit and cut the amount of delay down from a default of 8 seconds to something lower like 4 secs or less.
<dtrask> will speed up login time
<dtrask> not boot time
<richard_> dtrask, and what exactly does this do?
<dtrask> in a nutshell....looks at who you are (logging in)...looks for older processes from previous session and KILLS them
<richard_> that rocks!
<dtrask> thus no more hanging processes
<dtrask> wheee!
<richard_> ogra, is this xterminator going to be included in future edubuntu releases? this will save my life. (almost)
<dtrask> If you read the script...it's quite humourous....it's essentially the murder of an entire family  ;-)
<richard_> moquist, worked awesome!!!!
<moquist> richard_: great!
<moquist> richard_: sorry about the --help bug ;)
<dtrask> moquist is actually giddy with excitement and can hardly contain himself
<richard_> that's fine as long as it works i'm good!
<richard_> this should definitely be included with ltsp!
<richard_> moquist, you should add an echo upon xterminator --help saying(don't play with the xterminator or you might find yourself dead, no configuration needed) ;)
<LaserJock> haha
<ogra> richard_, i dont think its appropriate for a default install, we'll rather fix the apps o not hang (which is already going on) ... but as a safety net we can have a package in univers
<ogra> +e
<richard_> ok.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ping
<ogra> moquist, so something else to train your packaging skills on ;)
<LaserJock> indeed
<moquist> ogra: I've always intended xterminator to go into universe
<moquist> it's not ready yet, but it can be soon.
<moquist> The package itself is ready, but the script needs some work...such as --help. :-D
<ogra> moquist, would be good to have it in case the desktop team doesnt get everything fixed
<richard_> ogra is there a way to set up local usb printer?
<moquist> ogra: it's targetted for hardy ;)
<ogra> (indeed its importnt that enough people test during hardy development and give feedback to them)
<moquist> richard_: local to a thin client?
<richard_> yes
 * moquist bows out, having obtained that clarification
<moquist> richard_: I don't think so, but I'm not an authority on the subject. sbalneav, ogra ?
<ogra> plug it in, add PRINTER_0_DEVICE   = /dev/usblp0 to your lts.conf
<moquist> richard_: See? :)
<ogra> then just point the setup to to the client ip (shown on the clients login manager (bottom right)) as jetdirect priter
<ogra> s/setup/pinter setup tool/
<ogra> *printer :)
<richard_> ok i'll try that
<richard_> I also have a client that the mouse randomly starts going really slow (usb mouse) any ideas what to look at on it?
<ogra> hmm, not really ...
<ogra> dmesg on the client in a console might probably reveal something
<ii> sbalnaev: ogra: I'm back again (Edubuntu Gutsy server with local devices connection problems).  Thanks for your efforts last time - managed to get it working in the end with your help but ...
<ii> ... I didn't realise until later that only ONE client at a time gets access to it's local devices ... this is not dependent upon a specific client or a specific user, but rather whoever logs in first from whatever client has access to local devices - the rest don't.
<ii> I've even tried a fresh install WITHOUT playing around with any of the default user accounts (except to add two new users) and I still had exactly the same problem
<ii> If it helps at all, then I've noticed that CPU usage on the server remains at close to 100% after the second client has logged on.
<bdoin> we have a problem with missing translation with GCompris on Gutsy. It's like the gcompris.mo doesn't get installed.
<LaserJock> :/
<coolio> can anyone recommend a good school management system
#edubuntu 2007-10-30
<tonyb> I'm hoping to run edubuntu in something like a kisok mode.  (please forgive me for asking befoer I do the install) Are there tools to lock up a given account so the theme (icons, fonts, background etc) can not be changed?
<kgoetz> yes, a number of them
<kgoetz> iirc theres even some guides how to do it
<tonyb> kgoetz: I did google for guides/howtos but couldn't find any I'll keep trying thanks.
<tonyb> hopefully I'll get time to do the install this weekend.
<kgoetz> !sabayon
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about sabayon - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<kgoetz> silly bot.
<kgoetz> !pessulus
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pessulus - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<kgoetz> siller bot
<kgoetz> !info pessulus
<ubotu> pessulus: lockdown editor for GNOME. In component main, is optional. Version 2.16.3-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 29 kB, installed size 1004 kB
<kgoetz> tonyb: ^^
<tonyb> kgoetz: Thanks.
<kgoetz> np
<tonyb> kgoetz: installing it on my laptop to have a play :)
<kgoetz> :)
<kgoetz> i know theres another one, but it doesnt spring to mind
<kgoetz> !info sabayon
<ubotu> sabayon: system administration tool to manage GNOME desktop settings. In component main, is optional. Version 2.20.1-0ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 151 kB, installed size 2784 kB
<kgoetz> there it is^^
<tonyb> kgoetz: again thanks.  They shoudl do waht I need.  It's a shame I have to start from this position.  It'd be nice if I just /trusted/ the kids wouldn't do "the wrong thing" :(
<kgoetz> tonyb: what are you worried they will do specifically?
<tonyb> kgoetz: basically student A makign it hard for Student B to use the machine.
<tonyb> kgoetz: also to a smaller degree "defacing" the machine.
<kgoetz> tonyb: you might want to look at resetting the GUI on login/logout
<kgoetz> so each login is clean
<tonyb> kgoetz: Yeah I'll do that, and the teacher can ctl-alt-bkspace if needs be
<tonyb> kgoetz: Thanks again.
<kgoetz> tonyb: no problems
<kgoetz> tonyb: let us kknow how it goes
<tonyb> kgoetz: Will do.
<kgoetz> :)
<a|2121|e> assalamualaikum
<kgoetz> RichEd: arvo
<bcoudoin> Hi, there is a problem with GCompris on Gutsy, translations does not show up. At least french people are complaining
<Kamping_Kaiser> bcoudoin, i hadnt heard of any issues. have you checked the BTS?
<bcoudoin> nope, I checking now
<bcoudoin> it's not there
<Kamping_Kaiser> did you look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcompris/+bug/107971
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107971 in gcompris "Incomplete French translation" [Undecided,New]
<bcoudoin> I am installing gcompris here to double check but it's not a partial issue
<bcoudoin> I am confused, on my gutsy, gcompris is partially translated
<Kamping_Kaiser> bcoudoin, the person with the problem may not have their computer setup properly?
<bcoudoin> well, I found out that gcompris.mo is part of the gnome language pack. perhaps these persons don't have it
<Kamping_Kaiser> could be. ask them if they have ubuntu-desktop installed, and what gcompris parts - iirc gcompris has a -fr package
<bcoudoin> yes but the -fr is for voices
<Kamping_Kaiser> ah right
<spacey> hi
<spacey> ogra: http://osdir.com/ml/linux.ubuntu.user.edubuntu/2006-08/msg00079.html
<spacey> correct that that bug still exists?
<stgraber> ogra: I just saw that "edubuntu-addon" has been rescheduled for today, is that correct ?
<ogra> spacey, yes
<spacey> ogra: is there some quick fix?
<ogra> stgraber, yup, thats right, mvo wanted a discussion about the g-a-i changes
<spacey> if i deinstall gnome-power-manager it also pulls gnome-session away and everything breaks
<ogra> spacey, sudo gconf-editor ....
<stgraber> ok
<spacey> ogra: something systemwide?
<sbalneav> Boo
<ogra> go to g-p-m set "can_hibernate" "can_suspend" to false .... make them default and mandatory
<spacey> ok
<spacey> thanks
<musashi1> can anyone explain what i need to do to get gutsy to auth with active directory? I'm looking at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryHowto but not really sure what i need to do. I'm still rather new to all this. thanks
<musashi1> i'm getting some feedback from other suggesting that this is not going to work in gutsy? can anyone confirm? should i reinstall with feisty?
<bcoudoin> ogra: the french translation of gcompris 8.3.2 that comes on gutsy is really out of sync. It's unusable in schools.
<bcoudoin> also as the gcompris.mo is provided as part of the gnome language pack, I am afraid it's not installed on non gnome based systems
<dtrask> So how'd the profiles session go?  Anything to report?
<moquist> dtrask: gobby installed & open by default on an Edubuntu server.
<dtrask> ????
<moquist> dtrask: by "gobby" I of course mean "sabayon"
<dtrask> aha
<dtrask> :-)
<musashi1> can anyone explain what i need to do to get gutsy to auth with active directory? I'm looking at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryHowto but not really sure what i need to do. I have installed kbr5-user but when trying to use kinit I get this -->  (v5): Preauthentication failed while getting initial credentials
<musashi1> or this --> kinit(v5): KDC reply did not match expectations while getting initial credentials
 * dtrask dtrask needs to learn to acknowledge the low power warning
<dtrask> moquist: So...sabayon will be enabled by default?  What about gobby?
<dtrask> moquist: You mentioned gobby earlier
<stgraber> musashi1: first of all you must have the same time on both your server and client, so use ntp :), then set your krb5.conf and try : user@DOMAIN (the domain usually is uppercase)
<moquist> dtrask: I typed the wrong thing.
<dtrask_> what room you guys in at the moment?
<dtrask_> trying to listen...no one home
<stgraber> dtrask_: Hunsaker B
<dtrask_> talk to me
<dtrask_> say hi
<stgraber> dtrask_: but waiting for mvo, so everyone working on the wiki :)
<dtrask_> thanks
<dtrask_> yes I'm here
<dtrask_> I'm on listen mode
<dtrask_> OK
<calc> mvo was double scheduled
<dtrask_> OK...just curious
<dtrask_> I can't talk as I'm in class and the kids will look at me funny
<stgraber> :)
<dtrask_> Is RichEd there?
<stgraber> nope
<dtrask_> I need to catch him about plans for tomorrow
<RichEd> dtrask: nope ...
<dtrask_> I'll be back Wed
<dtrask_> RichEd: LOL
<dtrask_> RichEd: where are you?
<dtrask_> ;-)
<RichEd> dtrask: in the loco team meeting
<dtrask_> I'll try and catch you later about plans
<RichEd> when are you driving back ? after school on wed ?
<dtrask_> yep
<dtrask_> actually after my son's soccer game....so probably leave here 4:30 or so
<RichEd> what time would work for the visit (actual school time that is) forgetting travel time
<RichEd> 11:00-1:00 something like that ?
<dtrask_> school is out at 2:30 pm so earlier is better
<dtrask_> That could work
<RichEd> okay ... let me chat to people here to see who would be keen to go, and if someone is able to drive
<dtrask_> sure
<RichEd> will chat to you later
<RichEd> thanks
<dtrask_> if you guys decide to make the journey....then let me know and I will then help make arrangements
<dtrask_> brb
<dtrask_> I'm back
<dtrask_>  for  a min
<musashi1> stgraber: thanks. i'll set that up
<musashi1> can i do ntp from a term? i'm logged in over ssh at the moment
<stgraber> ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com should sync the clock
<musashi1> thanks
<musashi1> stgraber: sweet!! that worked
<musashi1> at least kinit did
<musashi1> i still have more issues :(
<musashi1> dtrask_: are you THE david trask of linux journal fame?
<calc> RichEd is here now
<dtrask_> musashi1: Yes...I guess  *blush*
<musashi1> cool. you are doing amazing things.
<dtrask_> musashi1: thanks  :-)
<dtrask_> musashi1: funny...you mention this...had beer last night with Maddog
<dtrask_> musashi1: heard the story of how he met Linus
<dtrask_>  brb...lunch
<musashi1> dtrask_: that's cool. enjoy lunch.
<dtrask_> moquist: where's the file in xterminator with the variable I can adjust the amount of time to "wait"
<dtrask_> moquist: never mind...I found it
<moquist> dtrask_: hi. good. :)
<highvoltage> moo
<dtrask_> RichEd: You here?
<RichEd> dtrask_: yebo
<dtrask_> RichEd: looks like my sons game is Thursday or Friday....so I'll be able to leave right after school tomorrow....2:45 or so
<dtrask_> RichEd: I realize it's a long drive so ya'll don't feel like you need to come up
<RichEd> okay ... things are getting quie busy here with specs ... lots of classmate issues to go through
<RichEd> i just don't want to take time out if i am stressing about missing sessions ...
<RichEd> but will give you a final answer later today
<dtrask_> RichEd: no problem...I understand completely....don't worry about it...stay there and I'll see you all tomorrow p.m.
<RichEd> thanks ... maybe we can do a virtual session hook up with the kids
<dtrask_> RichEd: by the time you got up here...the return on time invested might not be worth it
<dtrask_> RichEd: Great idea!  Anyone got a webcam?  I have one on this laptop that works great with Ekiga OR maybe you can use moquist's MacBook and do Skype with video...I can do the same with my MacBook
<RichEd> i'll check ...
<dtrask_> a great time to do it would be sometime in the 10:10 to 10:50 time frame....I have 4th graders at that time....9-10 year olds...
<dtrask_> RichEd: it'd be awesome for them
<RichEd> okay ... lemme check if anyone has a webcam
<dtrask_> RichEd: let me know...don't stress over it....looking forward to getting back down there.  :-)
<dtrask_> I know moquist does
<dtrask_> Is launchpad down?  Having trouble getting to blueprints
<dtrask_> RichEd: the Mass maintenance spec....is that leaning toward Sabayon type stuff or Samba/LDAP, user account type stuff?
<RichEd> ogra1: can you answer dtrask_ ... i am now confused by the mass maint deploy italc classmate control innards
<dtrask_> ogra1: hence my question  ;-)
<ogra1> dtrask_, rather transfer scripts for accounts etc
<ogra1> you could call it "K12LTSP maintenance scripts revisited "
<dtrask_> ogra1: I'm planning to attend via VOIP...just wanted a heads up on what the idea was based on
<dtrask_> ogra1: AHA!  Now I know exactly what you're talking about...and I have lots of experience with them  ;-)
<ogra1> dtrask_, we have some huge deployments going on in the future ... that spec is about finding the rigth tools
<dtrask_> ogra1: gotcha'
<ogra1> which will include looking at erics scripts again
 * dtrask_ now understands
<dtrask_> ogra1: I see one biggie being scripts to set OpenOffice paper sizes based on locale....on script in there does the A4 to letter....does most of Europe use A4?
<ogra1> italc is sooo horrible *sigh*
<ogra1> dtrask_, file a bug against libpaper
<dtrask_> ogra1: yup...I only use it when I must...which ain't often
<ogra1> dtrask_, thas not something to fix with a script
<dtrask_> ogra1: is there really a libpaper?
<ogra1> yes
<dtrask_> ogra1: will do then
<ogra1> Description: library for handling paper characteristics
<ogra1>  The libpaper paper-handling library automates recognition of many
<ogra1>  different paper types and sizes for programs that need to deal with
<ogra1>  printed output.
<ogra1> from the package desc.
<dtrask_> ogra1: thx
<dtrask_> ogra1: K12LTSP scripts revisited is at 16:15 right?
<ogra1> dtrask_, also note that it works in the most parts of the world (afaik there is only one country where it doesnt)
<ogra1> :P
<ogra1> yeah 16:15
<ogra1> so based on the amount of countries that exist thats a very low prop bug *grin*
<dtrask_> ogra1: lemme guess....same place where they don't use the metric system?  ;-)
<ogra1> s/prop/prio/
<dtrask_> ogra1: ;-)
<dtrask_> anyone know Carl's (from system76) nick?
 * dtrask_ waits a LONG time for launchpad....I need a drink...brb
<musashi1> so it seems, based on my experiences today, that gutsy has some issues. perhaps that's good so the bugs can be found and worked out (I'll be reporting a couple) but kind of disappointing too. has anyone else had issues? does anyone have a gutsy thin client lab up and running?
<sbalneav> Yup
<sbalneav> Lots
<musashi1> out of the box or lots of tweaking?
<sbalneav> Out of the box.
<musashi1> does local media (like usb drives) work?
<sbalneav> I've got 30 workstations at work.
<sbalneav> Yes, absolutely
<musashi1> well, mine fails over and over
<musashi1> i can log in several clients but after that it complains about swap and the rest of the clients hang
<sbalneav> You've read the debug wiki page.
<musashi1> no, didn't know there was one
<sbalneav> "complains about swap"?
<stgraber> you are probably running out of ram
<sbalneav> What complains about swap?  The clients? The server?
<musashi1> not sure, someone else was watching that
<sbalneav> What's the exact error?
<musashi1> not sure. i didn't see the screen
<musashi1> it was on a client though
<musashi1> stgraber: server has 4gb of ram. for 26 clients i was assured that would be enough
<stgraber> it should if you don't have tons of firefox running for days on them :)
<stgraber> or any memory hungry software
<musashi1> well, we couldn't even log in more than about 6 clients
<stgraber> hmm, ok so there is really something wrong
<stgraber> how much ram do you have on your clients ?
<musashi1> right
<musashi1> not sure they are a mix of old clients. i think some are 128 and some 256
<musashi1> maybe more
<stgraber> ok, >64MB should be fine
<musashi1> yes, more than 64
<stgraber> musashi1: did you check the disk and memory usage on the server ? ("df" and "free")
<musashi1> i didn't when the class was there. i could now but probably not useful
<stgraber> you can still try now
<musashi1> hold on. let me connect
<musashi1> all the lines on df say 1% or 2% used
<musashi1> free - Mem:       3630688    1138316    2492372          0      94924     786728
<sbalneav> How much disk space?
<musashi1> that's total used and free
<sbalneav> df -k
<musashi1> 3 160gb SATA drives in raid 5 i think
<musashi1> so 320gb total
<musashi1> df -k == /dev/cciss/c0d0p1    297139140   2731272 279314000   1% /
<musashi1> you want all the lines?
<sbalneav> yes please
<musashi1> Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
<musashi1> /dev/cciss/c0d0p1    297139140   2731272 279314000   1% /
<musashi1> varrun                 1815344       104   1815240   1% /var/run
<musashi1> varlock                1815344         0   1815344   0% /var/lock
<musashi1> udev                   1815344        88   1815256   1% /dev
<musashi1> devshm                 1815344         0   1815344   0% /dev/shm
<musashi1> lrm                    1815344     34696   1780648   2% /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic/volatile
<sbalneav> We'll need to get the exact error message you had about swap
<musashi1> sorry, i'll have to ask the guy that was checking that what it way. he is gone now
<musashi1> i think he said about network swap - does that make any sense?
<stgraber> well not really as indeed the clients use nbdswap which is network exported swap but the swap is stored on the server where there doesn't seem to have any space problem ...
<musashi1> okay. it was kind of crazy. we had 25 high school kids telling us they couldn't log in on top of some other issues so it was just hard to collect accurate data.
<musashi1> i was going to reinstall the whole thing with feisty and see if that has fewer issues. there is some traffic on the list suggesting gutsy has issues
<stgraber> musashi1: sbalneav is working on a debug wiki page
<stgraber> musashi1: reinstalling on Feisty isn't a good idea as I personnaly had more issues with Feisty than I had with Gutsy + the clients take like 10x more time to boot :)
<musashi1> i need to have this ready by thurs for our network admin to add us to the domain. i really want it all working by then
<musashi1> yeah, they do boot fast but they don't log in.
<stgraber> the wiki page will be ready in a few minutes :)
<musashi1> okay. i can wait
<musashi1> thanks
<sbalneav> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
<dtrask_> hey are you guys meeting yet?
<stgraber> yes
<dtrask_> can't hear very well
<stgraber> 5007, 5107 for listen only
<sbalneav> musashi1: Have a look at that wiki page.
<musashi1> checking now. thanks
<dtrask_> are you in the lan jen chu room?
<stgraber> dtrask_: yep
<dtrask_> I tried 5007 wouldn't connect, but 5107 would
<dtrask_> hmmmm
<stgraber> can you hear us ?
<dtrask_> K12LTSP scripts revisited  ;-)
<dtrask_> yes
<dtrask_> Scotty was just speaking right?
<stgraber> yes
<dtrask_> hang on...going to try 5007 again
<stgraber> ok, there was a paper on the mic, quality should be a bit better now
<dtrask_> won't let me connect....on standby....is there something that needs to happen on that end?
<stgraber> do you have an account on canonical sip server ?
<stgraber> that's required to access the non-listen only ones
<dtrask_> aha!  How do I get one?
<stgraber> ping them on #canonical-sysadmin
<dtrask_> who should I ping?
<dtrask_> I can hear you for the most part
<dtrask_> do we have a gobby going?
<stgraber> yes
<stgraber> MassUserManagement
<dtrask_> hang on
<dtrask_> I'm here and can now speak...where are we?
<dtrask_> speak up
<musashi1> sbalneav: checking the wiki, step one says the dev needs to be partitioned. is this a common state for new drives? i think students will be frustrated if we need to go through those steps to save to a flash drive?
<musashi1> this could be a deal breaker. it worked in feisty and if i can't get it work in gutsy i'll have to roll back
<sbalneav> It didn't change from feisty to gutsy
<sbalneav> it was the same before.
<sbalneav> Can you paste your lts.conf file?  /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<sbalneav> !pastebot
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebot - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<LaserJock> hi all
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<sbalneav> hello LaserJock
<LaserJock> was there another Edubuntu Addon discussion today?
<stgraber> eh, sort of :)
<stgraber> we were waiting for mvo but he hasn't been able to attend
<stgraber> so we spent an hour working on wikipage, trying italc, ... :)
<LaserJock> ah
<dtrask_> italc needs serious work
<stgraber> dtrask_: I can hear some noice from the speaker here but nothing I can understand
<LaserJock> I don't quite understand the similarities/differences between italc and TCM
<dtrask_> i know I'm waiting for something important
<stgraber> ok
<sbalneav> Are you following the gobby document?
<stgraber> LaserJock: italc can more or less do the same as TCM but also with real desktop computers (not thin clients), windows computers, ...
<stgraber> LaserJock: it's VNC seems better than the TCM one too (from what I saw after switching a classroom to it)
<LaserJock> I see
<stgraber> the point I like is also that we have an upstream we just patch, we are no longer the upstream for this one (but for that we need italc to do at least what TCM does)
<stgraber> (and find a way to improve its UI which is just ... ugly ? :))
<musashi1> sbalneav: i'm going to run the install again. i'll test and get you that info in a bit. one wierd issue - the on board broadcom eth was always identified as eth0 and the pci-e intel was eth1. on the reinstall they were switched. first time to see that and i've done for or five installs. normal?
<stgraber> musashi1: that can depend of the order the BIOS detects the card or the time required to load the kernel modules, the ethX won't change afterwards as they are then assigned by MAC
<stgraber> LaserJock: you can ask ogra1 about what he thinks of italc UI :)
<dtrask_> LaserJock: Italc is OK....just looks like hell  ;-)  To cartoon like
 * ogra1 shudders
 * dtrask_ vomits
<ogra1> dtrask_, its far from being "ok"
<ogra1> there are lots of other issues
<ogra1> (nothig unsolvable though)
 * dtrask_ realizes ogra speaks the truth
<stgraber> it's not really "easy" to install :)
<LaserJock> so is it going to be easier to make italic better or TCM?
<stgraber> italc has a nice roadmap with interesting features to come that I think we don't have time to implement (the problem is that we have nobody with time to work on TCM AFAIK)
<sbalneav> musashi1: On the server?  I have no idea, that's a kernel/dbus issue.
<LaserJock> what is italic written in?
<LaserJock> is that the one that gambas or some such?
<stgraber> C or C++, let me check
<stgraber> http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap <-- that's their current roadmap
<LaserJock> so something sane anyway
<LaserJock> hehe, looks like their wiki got hacked
<stgraber> we should see how easy it would be to remove some stuff (like those annoying help bubbles) from the UI
<stgraber> yes, I saw that too
<ogra1> LaserJock, its *very* similar to TCM ...
<stgraber> it's C++
<ogra1> from what it offers
<dtrask_> LaserJock: where is the "hack"
<stgraber> dtrask_: their wikipage, at the top of the main page
<musashi1> stgraber: well, it's just odd that it flips after so many installs the "other way". didn't know if it point to possible causes of problems or a problem itself.
<sbalneav> stgraber: just out of curiosity, ogra and I were discussing your idea of taking the screen snapshots
<dtrask_> LOL...found it
<dtrask_> over and out
<dtrask_>  /quit
<bddebian> Heya
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<bddebian> Heya Kamping_Kaiser
<jamiej> Any on help. I have installed ltsp on gutsy. When I try and login using ldm the screen just goes black and ldm just restarts. I have tried ltsp-update-sshkeys.
<jamiej> I was on earlier my problem was ldm just went to a blank screen and restarted. I have now checked ldms log on the client and it reports that no xauth data anyone help please.
#edubuntu 2007-10-31
<jamiej> Please does any one know is it possible to make ldm auto login now?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: did I ping you?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
<highvoltage> night before last night
<highvoltage> first time I see you online again now :)
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I don't think I know what I wanted to ask you
<LaserJock> could have been something to do with edubuntu.org but I don't know
<highvoltage> ok, np
<LaserJock> oh, maybe I remember
<pacomontoro> wenas
<pacomontoro> nas
<sbalneav> Morning a;;
<sbalneav> err, all
<dtrask> mornin' fellas
<dtrask> RichEd: You in here yet?
<stgraber> I managed to install edubuntu on virtualbox, after 4 install :)
<stgraber> now let's create some thin clients
<dtrask> moquist_: you in here?
<dtrask> If anyone has the ability to do skype with video....I want to show ya'll who benefits from your awesome work
<pips1> will the edubuntu weekly meeting happen, or are you folks all to busy?
<pips1> busy / just getting up / grabbing breakfast / hung over / ...? :-)
<sbalneav> pips1: Good question.  I don't know
<sbalneav> I'm up, had breakfast, etc.
<sbalneav> Ollie's still putting his face on :)
<pips1> hehe
<pips1> what about the german lederhosen?
<dtrask> where's moquist_?
<pips1> who was at uds paris?
<pips1> from in here?
<pips1> ah
 * pips1 glances at the channel participants list
<dtrask> sbalneav: is moquist around?
<sbalneav> dtrask: Haven't seen him as yet.
<sbalneav> Ollie's here now.
<RIchEd> yo dtrask
<RIchEd> and pips1
<dtrask> RIchEd: hey
<RichEd> dtrask: let me check the schedule to see when we have a free slot this morning ...
<pips1> hi
<dtrask> RIchEd: we're up for vid hookup if you guys are....just called moquist...I'm going to have him fire up Skype in a minute so I can show you guys the little kids using Tuxpaint to make Halloween pics
<RichEd> cool ... just sorting out the schedule for the day ... will be with you as soon as possible
<stgraber> dtrask: I'm currently at a roundtable, I'll be with the edubuntu guys at 9:50
<dtrask> I basically have the 10:10 - 10:50 time period....15 mins should be more than enough if anyone can squeeze in there...if not...no big deal
<dtrask> RichEd: we can watch you guys work  ;-)
<pips1> dtrask: question: Is it possible to have a group video chat in Skype at all? where I could join you guys in the Skype session from here?
<pips1> probably not...
<pips1> I think video chat only works two-way...
<dtrask> pips1: never tried...no idea....moquist has a MacBook Pro...and we tried it yesterday....if he could hook up to a projector that would be cool...are you at UDS?
<pips1> nope
<dtrask> pips1: I'm not at the moment...was, but had to come back to teach a couple days...head back in a few hours
<pips1> ah
<dtrask> pips1: I have little 5 year olds in here using Edubuntu
<pips1> dtrask: I've also started teaching a class here in zurich :-)
<pips1> dtrask: 5 year olds! wow
<pips1> I teach grown ups though
<pips1> I guess the small and and the grown ups are fun to teach... perhaps the teenagers in-between can be a bit difficult :-)
<pips1> hmm
<pips1> I see mostly flash based multi-user video chats...
<pips1> http://www.kolabora.com/news/2004/11/18/flashbased_video_conferencing_solutions_on.htm
<dtrask> ok guys...that was very cool
<dtrask> I'll use the LCD projector  later so they can all see
<pips1> nice one
<dtrask> RichEd: That was cool...so...if possible we'll try and hook up in the 10 o'clock hour sometime...I can put you guys up on the LCD projector and set the camera up so you guys can see more of the class
<dtrask> RichEd: if moquist is able...you too can use a projector perhaps...we can even watch you guys work and I'll ask some simple questions about what you're doing and all
 * pips1 wonders if there is a record function in skype
<dtrask> pips1: I'm actually using a firewire camera...so what I can do is record my end of things and post it.
<pips1> meanwhile, I found out that skype can currently only do video calls with two participants, no video conference calls.
<pips1> dtrask: nice
<pips1> "Currently you cannot record your Skypecast from within Skype"
<dtrask> pips1: do you have a Mac?  iChat can do video conferencing AFAIK
<dtrask> multiple
<dtrask> pips1: dunno if moquist has an account, but it's a possibility
<pips1> interesting. yes, we have an imac, my wife uses it mostly.
<pips1> I think you guys should go ahead with what you arleady tested... only 30 mins to go. :-)
<pips1> I was just thinking out loud... curious. :-)
<dtrask> :-)
<dtrask> moquist_: do you have a video dongle/adapter for your MBP?
<moquist_> dtrask: not with me
<pips1> hi moquist_
<dtrask> moquist_: it'd be cool even to just have a vid chat with you
<dtrask> moquist_: I'll keep the questions simple  ;-)
<dtrask> moquist_: I'll make you famous in the eyes of 9 and 10 year olds  ;-)
<ulisse> hello guys!
<pips1> hi
<ulisse> i have a little question about thin client:
<ulisse> is it possible to serve the OS via an ethernet cable, but have the thin client connected to internet via a wireless card?
<ulisse> I mean, the difficult thing should be to run the wifi card on the client, right?
<pips1> ulisse: i don't have an answer to you question, but i'm curious why you want to do that.. :-)
<ulisse> heh
<ulisse> it is because an crazy law here in Italy
<ulisse> (another crazy law, not the one we got slashdotted recently)
<pips1> heh
<ulisse> I want to run the clients in an hotel, for free public acces
<ulisse> but according to that law, I have to keep a log of the users connections
<ulisse> if I can use the wireless, I could make the clients connect via the Free-Hotspot system
<ulisse> and the log would be managed directly by their servers
<pips1> i see
<pips1> there seems no limit to what crazy setups people want to do :-)
<pips1> your explanation makes sense though
<pips1> sorry I'm no help
<pips1> most edubuntu / ltsp devs are probably rather busy at the developer summit right now...
<pips1> so you might not be heard / get an answer just now... :-/
<pips1> got to run.. cu l8r
<ulisse> np, I think the best solution will be to not use ltsp, anyway I'm talking about only two pc
<ulisse> thanks anyway
<dtrask_> name of the gobby doc?
<pips1> ulisse: cu
<sakhi> hi
<sakhi> highvoltage: hi
<sakhi> ltps
<dtrask_> highvoltage: Hi!
<dtrask_> the UI in italc is something that needs a lot of work
<dtrask_> at least in my opinion
<sakhi> I have just installed Edubuntu 7.10 on 2 servers, the thin client boots on the one server but it does not boot on the second server. what could be wrong?
<sakhi> Both the server's have the same spec
<sakhi> jvanrooyen: ohi
<jvanrooyen> sakhi: hey
<bddebian> Heya
<dtrask_> moquist_: the kids are here and VERY excited.  Even if we could just talk to you, that would be cool
<dtrask_> RichEd: if you guys cn spare about 10 mins at some point in the very near future, the kids are very excited about the prospect of meeting you guys
<RichEd> great ... can we do it in 15 mins ?
<RichEd> moquist_ is wrapped up with the italc BOF and note taking
<RichEd> dtrask_: it would be great if we could get a little exercise going along the line we spoke about with the kids contributing ... how about asking them to write an letter / email to the edubuntu guys on the topics:
<RichEd> #1 why i like using computers at school
<RichEd> #2 why i like using edubuntu
<RichEd> even if they all do not complete the "exercise" it should make for some sweet quotes we can put up onto the web site ?
<dtrask_> RichEd: that would be perfect....class ends at 10:50...it's 10:22 right now...so it'll give us enough time to have a short chat
<RichEd> cool ... raise the idea above with the kids, and it will give us a topic to chat about ... they can answer the questions verbally today, and then sit down to write them tomorrow
<dtrask_> you bet
<RichEd> (that is if they have recovered from the halloween sugar buzzzzzzz .... by the time they get back to school)
 * dtrask_ readies for the video conference...kids are PUMPED!
<dtrask_> RichEd: we are ready when you are
<dtrask_> moquist_: we are ready....can you begin?
<RichEd> dtrask_: moquist_ is firing up the electronic wormhole
<highvoltage> hi sakhi and dtrask_!
<dtrask_> RichEd: that was VERY cool for the kids...thanks so much
<RichEd> thanks to you guys too ... it was a good seed ... we can grow from that little intro ... the kids can now visualise us if you set them tasks
<dtrask_> RichEd: exactly...and it went vey well considering we threw it together in 10 mins  ;-)
<stgraber> and video quality wasn't that bad with the poor bandwidth we had (probably something like 10kB/s)
<dtrask_> stgraber: wow...that's pretty slow  ;-)
<stgraber> well we have a T1 connection for the whole hotel IIRC :)
<stgraber> they then use transparent proxying + mirror
<sakhi> kbye
<stgraber> ogra: I'm doing an italc install on Virtualbox so you can have an idea of what we'll need to do to have it working on thin clients
<dtrask_> stgraber: good point
<ogra> stgraber, great !
<stgraber> ogra: I have it working :)
<ogra> yay
<dtrask_> stgraber: I'm blogging the video chat...where are you from?
<RichEd> swisserlund
<sbalneav> The land of Chocolate, Banking, and army knives.
<dtrask_> thx....three of my fave things!
<dtrask_> love the bobsleds too
<dtrask_> oh..and a certain kind of cheese
<RichEd> and don't forget .... Heidie
<dtrask_> Oh yeah....I remember Heidi!
<stgraber> ogra: only problem I have is a "Authentication failed" error in the notification area and I can't figure out what's causing it ...
<stgraber> dtrask_: yep, switzerland
<stgraber> ogra: where are you ?
<ogra> in the corridor next to the mobile room
<groovedreamer> elo
<groovedreamer> hi gnomefreak
<groovedreamer> bddebian: spox
<groovedreamer> bddebian: not yet?
<bddebian> Hrm?
<groovedreamer> bddebian: yes
<bddebian> yes what?
<groovedreamer> bddebian: sarge?
<groovedreamer> hmm
<groovedreamer> now woman no cry
<bddebian> groovedreamer: I'm sorry, I am not following.
<groovedreamer> bddebian:  you've got
<bddebian> WTF?
<sbalneav> Wow
<sbalneav> That was.... existential :)
<stgraber> ogra: ping
<ogra> stgraber, pong
<stgraber> ogra: we are working on the italc thing, should we import the upstream svn and then re-upload on bzr or simply use bzr for the debian/ and then use dpatch ?
<ogra> stgraber, i hink LP has an option to point a bzr import to a svn root
<ogra> so create a team and a branch in that team
<ogra> point that branch to pull from upstreams svn
<stgraber> not directly, I managed to import the svn though and can re-uploaed to bzr so we keep the revisions
<stgraber> but do we want to work directly on the code and then create our own orig package or create an orig from SVN and then patch it as we do with most packages ?
<stgraber> ogra: ^
<ogra> yeah
<stgraber> ogra: how can you answer "yeah" to a "or" question ? :)
<LaserJock> stgraber: ogra can do anything ;-)
<ogra> stgraber, i can do that only if Burgundavia distracts me all the time :P
<stgraber> ogra: so ? :)
<ogra> yeah
<sbalneav> ogra's being deliberately obstreperous
<stgraber> :)
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Education/UDS-Boston
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Education/UDS-Boston
<Burgundavia> http://www.bangkokpost.com/Database/31Oct2007_data01.php
<Nubae> hi, I'm running gutsy on a thin client computer that seems to have apic problems...
<Nubae> How can I get it to start up with apic off?
<sbalneav> Edit the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default file
<sbalneav> add "noapic" to the kernel command line.
<Nubae> thanks, but will that not do that for every client then?
<Nubae> or does that not really matter?
<ogra> LaserJock, did the wlan on your classmate under XP work ?
<LaserJock> ogra: yes it did
<LaserJock> ogra: I don't think I got it to work under linkux
<LaserJock> *linux
<LaserJock> but I didn't investigate it much, it could've been on my side
<ogra> intresting
<ogra> i cant get it to find anything here
<Nubae> well, the noapic variable worked, but now the system simply freezes and gets stuck just after stating loading initrd.img and then redy
<Nubae> Ready
<Nubae> cant even ctrl+alt+del
<Nubae> when I say worked I mean it took the 8254 bios timer bug message away
<LaserJock> ogra: yeah, basically it seemed like it didn't see any wireless networks
<ogra> so how did you get it to see one than ?
 * ogra tries to get this XP crap going here
<ogra> heh, my linux classmate actually sees the lpc mesh
<ogra> *olpc
<LaserJock> interesting
<LaserJock> ogra: in Windows everything is fine, in Linux I don't think it sees any networks
<LaserJock> at least I think that's what I remember
<LaserJock> I can check tonight
<fgiraldeau> ogra : is it possible to update blueprint for italc, to set the wiki page?
<fgiraldeau> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-and-italc
<ogra> fgiraldeau, url ?
<stgraber> ogra: busy ?
<ogra> partially
<ogra> (flashing classmates here)
<stgraber> ogra: I have a 50% working iTalc 1.0.3.1 (svn), the VNC part crash but no more authentication problem
<stgraber> ogra: we are just thinking of the way we should run it on the client
<stgraber> so they can't simply kill it
<stgraber> (as they can do with tcm)
<fgiraldeau> no more authentication problem, since there is no authentication at all
<ogra> cool
<fgiraldeau> localapps
 * fgiraldeau in the brooks room
<stgraber> ogra: I no longer have that ica icon :)
<stgraber> (one line patch)
<stgraber> well, not even a line, one character patch acutally
<stgraber> s/acutally/actually/
<ogra> cool
<ogra> !
<sbalneav> stgraber: What was the character?  # ? :)
<stgraber> sbalneav: yeah
<stgraber> ogra: I removed the info bubble too
<stgraber> this one is a 4 char change :)
<stgraber> FALSE -> TRUE
<stgraber> and I'm removing the no config file warning too (the first window you see when opening the teacher part)
#edubuntu 2007-11-01
<dtrask> evenin' all
<LaserJock> hi dtrask
<dtrask> back in Boston :-)
<dtrask> went back for 2 days...felt like a visitor in my own home  ;-)
<LaserJock> hah
<LaserJock> did you have to break up the party?
<dtrask> LOL
<dtrask> had to go back and teach for two days....but now back for duration
<LaserJock> awesome
<dtrask> glad too....done more IRC and Ekiga than ever before ;-)
<dtrask> Hey what time "our time" are the meetings usually on Wed?
 * dtrask realizes you are in Mountain time
<LaserJock> I'm in Pacific :-)
<dtrask> oh...so what time are the meetings usually....the Edubuntu meetings on IRC on wed?
<LaserJock> 5am or 1pm here
<LaserJock> dtrask: you can look on fridge.ubuntu.com
<dtrask> 3 hours diff?
<LaserJock> should yeah
<dtrask> 10 a.m.?
<dtrask> fridge.ubuntu.com
 * dtrask needs world clock  :-)
<LaserJock> eastern time is UTC -4
<dtrask> 4 pm....doh!
<dtrask> !pastebot
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebot - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<pvangundy> happy Halloween
<mwright1> Hi Anyone here used or  knows the ins and outs of using xenified ubuntu gutsy as a terminal server
<mwright1> and then running normal clients to get sound workingt
<mwright1> hello anyone here au fait with ltsp?
<nilsen__> hi. how can I boot clients that do not support PXE?
<Kamping_Kaiser> you can install a minimal os on the client/boot off some media
<nilsen__> could I boot from a CD? I read so on the handbook, but I do not know what image i should use
<Kamping_Kaiser> yes, you could
<nilsen__> where can i download suitable images?
<Kamping_Kaiser> not sure, i havent tried myself
<nilsen__> i figured it out :) http://rom-o-matic.net
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> did you find that in the doco? if not it might need to be added
<nilsen__> yes, I probably did not look good enough the first time
<nilsen__> found it here http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/handbook/C/ltsp-theory.html
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<nilsen__> but how to extract a zdsk image to a floppy disk would be nice to have in the handbook
<Kamping_Kaiser> never heard of it before *grin*
<nilsen__> the diskette boot images found on rom-o-matic is zdsk format
<Kamping_Kaiser> you can select different formats
<Kamping_Kaiser> $ cat eb-5.4.3-yournic.zdsk > /dev/fd0
<Kamping_Kaiser> ^^ WTF?
<Kamping_Kaiser> since when have you cat'd data into devices like that :|
<nilsen__> yes, you find a guide on the rom-o-matic guide, but to have it in the handbook could probably be o.k. too
<nilsen__> and a note that ubuntu uses by some strange reason /dev/sdd as diskette..?
<Kamping_Kaiser> looking at rom-o-matics guide, i think one for hte handbook would be a good move
<Kamping_Kaiser> all new distros will.  LInux dropped IDE code out, everything uses the scsi system now
<nilsen__> ok, I thought it was a ubuntu-only thing. thanks for the info :) are you involved in the edubuntu handbook?
<Kamping_Kaiser> no, not recently. looking to get involved again.
 * Kamping_Kaiser has the source checked out, just hasnt had time to get involved
<nilsen__> ok
<nilsen__> i have to say i am very impressed with edubuntu. setup is way easier than windows terminal servives
<nilsen__> my boss was impressed too, we wil probably use this on the schools we serve :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i havent ... experianced... (suffered?) doze TS.
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> i havent used it recently
<Kamping_Kaiser> not since 6.06
<Kamping_Kaiser> but i'm still peripherally involved in edubuntu/ubuntu-education
<Kamping_Kaiser> which reminds me. *goes to remove gnome.conf from his miniconfs list in favour of education only*
<nilsen__> have to leave now. thanks for all help :) see you
<sbalneav> Morning all
<RichEd> morning sbalneav ... how's the weather where you are today ?
<sbalneav> RichEd: I'm here in the platforms roundtable :)
<RichEd> platforms ? that's like high heels but with more of a wedge ?
<sbalneav> Right.
<sbalneav> I prefer pumps myself.
<sbalneav> :)
 * RichEd shuts down his imagination before something bursts
<sbalneav> lol
<ogra> *shudder*
<RichEd> sbalneav: ltsp-improvedcdsprinting <- does this need a session this morning ? it's got a room reserved
<RichEd> earth to scotty ... sbalneav ^^^ need an answer so they can generate the final schedule
<SimonAnibal> Hope you guys are having fun in Massachusetts
<SimonAnibal> I'm teaching Python in Indiana at the moment
<sbalneav> RichEd: I don't think so
<sbalneav> I think we could just handle it at BTS
<stgraber> we have a problem with the schedule, edubuntu-mass-maintenance and ltsp-improved-cdsprinting are at the same time ...
<RichEd> what is the status ? drafting ?
<sbalneav> What do I need to mark it as?
<stgraber> ah ok, just read the backlog
<RichEd> stgraber: yep ... that's because you have not made yourself compulsory
<RichEd> sbalneav: drafting ?
<sbalneav> ok, I'll update
<sbalneav> ok, changed to drafting/started
<RichEd> schweet
<RichEd> stgraber: did you change yourself to compulsory on the cdsprinting
<fgiraldeau> ogra : https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/edubuntu-and-italc
<RichEd> stgraber: ignore ... sorry
<stgraber> RichEd: as it was changed to drafting and no longer scheduled it's not a problem
<RichEd> :)
<RichEd> mmmmm brain needs coffeeeeee
<stgraber> mine too
<ogra> fgiraldeau, i meant the wikipage
<ogra> you wanted me to add a wikipage to a spec yesterday, but didnt give me the url
<ogra> (url of the wikipage)
<fgiraldeau> ogra: You was supposed to copy the gobby it in the wiki
<fgiraldeau> isn't?
<fgiraldeau> I do have a copy, I can create the wiki page if needed.
<ogra> yes, i was, i thought you had made something up
<ogra> then i misunderstood, sorry
<fgiraldeau> Ok, I will send you a link, wait a minute.
<fgiraldeau> ogra : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuAndItalcHardy
<fgiraldeau> I added Hardy keyword, because we may have another roadmap for Hardy+1
<ogra> gracias
 * ogra hugs fgiraldeau 
<fgiraldeau> Well, it seems to have another session on this spec in one minute, isn't?
<stgraber> fgiraldeau: refresh the schedule :)
<Nubae> Hi there... I've written to the mailing list, but didnt receive an answer, so I'll try my luck here :-)
<Nubae> I'm trying to create 2 chroots, one for fat clients running restricted drivers, and another for normal thin clients
<Nubae> Is this possible?
<Nubae> this is ltsp under gutsy
<Nubae> I've attempted this by modifying dhcp.conf and loading one or another chroot according to mac address, but maybe this is not the way or not even possible
<fgiraldeau> I would say that everything is possible, but it's not supported by default. You will have to work. Are you ready for that?
<Nubae> already doing that
<Nubae> I had to modify the chroot extensively to work with linux restricted drivers already, and I'm pretty sure I know how to authenticate from inside the chroot using ldap
<fgiraldeau> Ok, so you may start by reading how to get multiple chroot and deal with that
<Nubae> where.. I've look everywhere
<fgiraldeau> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToSetupLTSPDevelEnvironment
<fgiraldeau> You will find usefull information for setting up and start to build uppon
<Nubae> right, but that mentions witching between chroots
<Nubae> I need to run both at the same time
<fgiraldeau> You may have two entries in the default pxe configuration, one for booth.
<dtrask> RichEd: lemme know when you want to have any of the "unscheduled" discussion sessions
<Nubae> I've already got that... my problem arises when the client boots up and gets to the image...
<fgiraldeau> If you want them to be fixed, then it's possible to use a file based on the mac address in the pxelinux.cfg file
<bddebian> Heya
<fgiraldeau> Nubae: Where does it stops?
<Nubae> anyway, I'll go through the document more thoroughly.... the message I get is: negotiation mount: mounting /rofs
<Nubae> failed
<fgiraldeau> check nbd setup, you may have to define two different ports for each sqashfs  images
<fgiraldeau> You will find this config in /etc/inetd.conf
<fgiraldeau> and in the pxeconfig file
<Nubae> thats probably it... now I have something to go on again, thanks :-)
<Nubae> I notice there are images /opt/ltsp/images
<Nubae> I created 2, but of course, not sure where it loads them from
<Nubae> this is in /etc/inetd.conf?
<fgiraldeau> yeah, you have to define one tcp port for each image
<Nubae> ok, so I load 2 pxeconfigs right now... one under one chroot, the other under the other chroot
<fgiraldeau> by defaut, the port 2000 is used
<fgiraldeau> your next image could use the 2001 port
<Nubae> yeah this is amd64 so that was already used
<Nubae> I had to build a i386 that uses 2001, but I'll change the 2000 to the new chroot
<Nubae> do I need to restart nbdserver?
<fgiraldeau> there is no nbd-server daemon, inly inetd daemon
<fgiraldeau> restart it with : /etc/init.d/openbsd-inetd
<RichEd> dtrask: sure will ... got to catch up on a few things ... but i have lunch time free for a chat about input from the kids
<RichEd> and 15:00 slot is free as well ... perhaps we can do a getting input from teachers
<RichEd> dtrask: also, I've been having some informal chats around what support offering / structure would make sense for eucation ... would be keen to get some comment from you as well
<Nubae> how do I set the pxelinux.cfg to use another port?
<Nubae> never mind nbdport=2000 at the end of the line right?
<Nubae> hmmm... I'm still getting the same message: Nov  1 15:14:01 mayserve nbd_server[21688]: connect from 192.168.0.70, assigned file is /opt/ltsp/images/i386-ati.img
<Nubae> so its correct image
<Nubae> still getting negotiation mount errors though
<sbalneav> Back
<Nubae> loads the correct root server, correct image, nbd ports changed...
<Nubae> permissions?
<Nubae> how does /opt/ltsp/images work? how are the different images handed out?
<Nubae> ah... worked...
<Nubae> changed the image file names and everything is ok... super... 2 chroots... nice...
<Nubae> another total aside... when in the thin client manager, clicking on share screen brings up a black screen...
<Nubae> is this normal?
<sbalneav> Nubae: Yeah, it doesn't work so well.
<sbalneav> Needs to be fixed for hardy.
<Nubae> ok, thanks, so for now use flteachertool?
<sbalneav> If you can get it to work, sure.
<Nubae> actually, I can wait for hardy... prefer not to mess up the environment
<sbalneav> ogra: Just to let you know, I'm going to sit in on the gdm rewite spec.
<sbalneav> Since we'll probably need to be aware of some of the changes, and see what we can glom for ldmgtkgreet
<sbalneav> Some we can use, some we can't
<sbalneav> I can't see a good way to have face greeters
<LaserJock> sbalneav: jammcq is looking for some PDF stuff from the docteam, it's in libs/pdf/
<ZitheR> hi every1
<ZitheR> I have a question
<nuba1> hi, I have a quick question about this document: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev, everything works out when I follow the steps, except Step 3
<nuba1> ltspfs_fstab is not showing anything, but I know the sticks are formatted an partitioned, as they show up on the server when I stick the memory sticks in there
<nuba1> anything else I can do to find out why local devices aren't working?
<sbalneav> Is the file there, just empty?
<musashi1> i have 25 students needing to print on my brand new install (test phase actaully) but can't. i've added a printer, they can see it but i can't print a test page and they get an error
<sbalneav> musashi1: Where have you added the printer?  Is it plugged into the server?
<musashi1> yes, into a switch and the swich into the server
<musashi1> it has a local ip address
<sbalneav> And as an administrator, you can print a test page?
<musashi1> no
<sbalneav> What kind of printer is it?
<musashi1> trying to add again. i used ipp is that right?
<sbalneav> no
<musashi1> hp laserjet
<sbalneav> No, don't use ipp
<sbalneav> use lpd
<musashi1> tcp?
<sbalneav> Either socket/tcp port 9100, or lpd
<musashi1> i have tcp/socket, hp jetdirect
<musashi1> i don't have lpd
<sbalneav> use that
<sbalneav> What ip address did you give the printer?
<musashi1> trying
<musashi1> it got 192.168.0.240 via dhcp
<sbalneav> That's bad.
<sbalneav> You need to assign it a static address
<musashi1> just installed yesterday. only testing. will give static later
<sbalneav> OK, so long as you understand that.
<sbalneav> so, tcp to 192.168.0.240 port 9100
<sbalneav> print to that and it should work.
<musashi1> score, i can print a test page
<musashi1> now to share it with the clients
<musashi1> global setting, share is checked. is that all i need to do?
<sbalneav> If you've added it as administrator, they should just have it
<sbalneav> Share would be for another server to see the printer
<sbalneav> all your users are on the same server, so it should work as is.
<sbalneav> musashi1: So, that work?
<musashi1> it's working. thaks
<musashi1> i had to have them go into printing and make default. otherwise it gave an error
<musashi1> sbalneav, thanks again. that saved my butt. i had a class here doing real work and it's still in the test phase. i didn't plan it that way but we are a school of 1000 with ONE lab. this one makes two.
<musashi1> one more question. anyone know why firefox doesn't let you right click and copy and image?
<musashi1> you can copy image location (i.e. the url) but not the image. you have to save it first. kind of a pain.
<scrapbunny> hello, I am an edubuntu newbie and wanted to know the best way to set up users for a 32 station lab. I have 600+ students in 26 classes I see each week. Do I need an account for each student or would an account for each computer (user1 through user32) be ok?
<RichEd> scrapbunny: a lot of the people are busy at UDS in boston
<RichEd> i suggest you send a mail to the edubuntu-devel or edubuntu-users mailing list ...
<RichEd> are you a member of these lists ?
<RichEd> lists.ubuntu.com <- start there
<RichEd> dtrask: might be able to give some advice ... he's just signed in ... but be aware that he is also in a UDS discussion right now
<RichEd> dtrask: <scrapbunny> hello, I am an edubuntu newbie and wanted to know the best way to set up users for a 32 station lab. I have 600+ students in 26 classes I see each week. Do I need an account for each student or would an account for each computer (user1 through user32) be ok?
<RichEd> if you have a moment to share your wisdom :)
<dtrask> RichEd: reading...
<dtrask> scrapbunny: Each student would be best...that way they can go whereever they want and they have "roaming" profiles that follow them no matter what machine they are on.
<scrapbunny> I was afraid you would say that :) is there any way to set the account up besides one by one?
<dtrask> scrapbunny: one piece of advice...and this is purely from the teacher in me....go with enforced passwords.  Generate passwords for each kid and do not give them the ability to change them.  Why?  First of all, most users have lousy passwords...second of all, a LOT of time is wasted resetting forgotten passwords.  Each year I generate a list of all usernames and passwords....print up login cards for all the
<dtrask> kids....no longer do I deal with "I forgot my password".
<dtrask> yes there is....let me do a little research on the best way
<scrapbunny> great, I have been trying to switch my lap of old dells to edubuntu for 2 years and finally just got a server donated and went for it with 7.10. everyone is so great on the forums and irc, i love ubuntu:)
<dtrask> scrapbunny: hang on....trying to get you to the simplest way to do bulk user import.  Is this a server that will bascially serve a lab or a whole school?
<highvoltage> have you guys seen http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/01/1331202&from=rss ?
<highvoltage> hey dtrask!
<dtrask> highvoltage: WOW!  Bastard (Steve...not you)  ;-)
<highvoltage> dtrask: yeah :(
<scrapbunny> dtrask: the server is just for edubuntu
<dtrask> scrapbunny: Go here and go down to the section on installing Webmin  http://onlyubuntu.blogspot.com/2007/10/ubuntu-710-gutsy-gibbon-lamp-server.html
<Burgundavia> scrapbunny: be aware that webmin is highly insecure software
<dtrask> scrapbunny: I realize you're install an Edubuntu server....the directions for the install are the same
<moquist> scrapbunny: we're all talking about you
<moquist> :)
<scrapbunny> burgundavia- that is the best thing about thin clients, if I screw up I only have one computer to reset :)
<dtrask> scrapbunny: Burgundavia is right....in fact you may want to disable it once you've done your thing
<dtrask> scrapbunny: amen to that!
<scrapbunny> moquist-what do you mean?
<dtrask> scrapbunny: we are all in a session discussing the best method for you without getting too geeky
<scrapbunny> Very cool!
<dtrask> scrapbunny: you hit the jackpot
<dtrask> scrapbunny: we're at UDS Boston all sitting around a table working on Edubuntu specs
<dtrask> scrapbunny: someone (I think) is writing a script just for you...hang tight
<Burgundavia> scrapbunny: and you have compromised  hundreds of users data
<scrapbunny> Can I just say again how much I LOVE Ubuntu and all the support
<scrapbunny> :-*
<dtrask> scrapbunny: Awwww  :-)
<scrapbunny> With the help of forums and irc in one week I have: set up ubuntu 7.10 on my dell d600 laptop with all the compriz bells and media working great, set up an edubuntu 7.10 server and got 3 dell gx110 thin clients PXE booting with sound, flash and java!
<dtrask> scrapbunny: as you learn more and more we can show you how to set up a Samba/LDAP server which will give you a central point of authentication as well as authentication for al sorts of other servers and workstations like windows.....in other words....many doors into the same room.  You users can have one username and password and one set of data regardless of paltform
<dtrask> sp platform
<scrapbunny> And though I have played with edubuntu before I am a linux baby with little skill  so the community is what made it all work
<dtrask> scrapbunny: This is cool....they are discussing the finer points of the script they are writing for you  :-)
<scrapbunny> SO AWESOME! BTW let everyone know that tux paint was a huge hit with all my students that tested for me this week, even the big bad 5th graders :)
<dtrask> scrapbunny: in the meantime, some tips on using a spreadsheet to create your users....go to the smbldap-installer site and look at the section on Managing Users....go down near the bottom and look user the "mostly manual" section.  http://www.vcsvikings.org/docuwiki/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/   this gives tips on how to use autofill and force lower case...etc.
<dtrask> scrapbunny: sit tight....they're typing fast
<scrapbunny> No worries, I am in california so it is only noon here :)
<scrapbunny> I was thinking everyong was already home from boston
<pawalls> scrapbunny: So you wanted to create a ton of users easily?
<moquist> one metric ton of users
<dtrask> scrapbunny: ?
<dtrask> scrapbunny: you there?
<scrapbunny> yes pawalls, sorry I am chatting and teaching :)
<moquist> sbalneav!!!!!!!!!!!!
<scrapbunny> I would like to create an account for each of my 600+ students. I can create an exported file of student date from access if that helps :)
<scrapbunny> not sure if in matters but the simpilar the usernames and passwords the better since these are 1st through 5th graders
<pawalls> So what data exactly can you export?
<pawalls> And how do you want passwords to be generated?
<pawalls> Is first initial + last name fine for username?
<dtrask> or would you rather make your own pw's?
<pawalls> or first initial + first 6 chars of last name?
<scrapbunny> first initial last name should work. I can export names, grade, class, teacher, sex, address, anything that the school has on file
<pawalls> Okay, so how about passwords?
<dtrask> scrapbunny: to be prefectly honest....you won't need all that info
<pawalls> I can generate a username from the first/last name if you export them as "firstname,lastname"
<pawalls> To make sure it's not ambiguous w/ middle names and such.
<pawalls> There is still the matter of passwords however.
<scrapbunny> I would like a simple password, I was thinking thing their username and password could be the same
<pawalls> Not concerned about them logging in as each other?
<pawalls> I mean, that's fine if that's what you want to do.
<scrapbunny> not really, more that they can type their username and password :)
<scrapbunny> how i have my lab set up now with xp is that there is one student account to log in to the network that is logged in each morning. then there is a folder for each class and a folder for each student in their class folder
<dtrask> scrapbunny: take if from someone who is a teacher in a K-8 school (me)....the kids will do fine with normal passwords...in fact it's a good habit to begin teaching.  We use passwords that look like this....  dog43bee     All the way down to 1st grade.....the kindergarteners use   "12345"  but graduate to a real password the next year
<scrapbunny> passwords like that would be great
<scrapbunny> that are words they can remember
<scrapbunny> My issue in the 7 years I have been teaching here is that i only see the students once a week for 45 minutes so they forget easily :)
<scrapbunny> I have to take my current class to lunch. I'll stay logged in so I can read any post but be back in about an hour
<dtrask> scrapbunny: If you don't do it this year....make plans to change your method for next year.  One account per kid....that roams with them....even with XP.  In XP you can have roaming profiles that easily move with the kids regardless of machine.  I too only see my kids one day per week for 40-45 mins depending on grade level, but they have computers in their classrooms as well.  I make login cards for them (a simple
<dtrask> mail merge from the spreadsheet you'll create).  Just giving you some food for thought as you move forward
<pawalls> scrapbunny: Well I have a script for doing username and password the same, but I can quickly change it to using the format dtrask mentioned.
<scrapbunny> I will totally set edubuntu up is an account and password per kid, I have no control over the windows user accounts, district tech people do, so I can't control that :(
<pawalls> scrapbunny: Would you like me to do this? If so, I assume you want it to generate a list of username/password for your reference.
<scrapbunny> pawalls- that would be great
<pawalls> oka.
<Goosemoose> hi guys
<scrapbunny> I have to walk my students now so want ever works will be sooooo apriciated and i'll be back in about 50 minutes
<Goosemoose> I'm setting up a few test systems to get ready to install edubuntu on 300 machines at our school
<pawalls> And you can generate 'firstname,lastname'
<pawalls> ?
<Goosemoose> Right now we have 200 windows systems, and just had 500 computers donated
<pawalls> scrapbunny: ^
<Goosemoose> Can anyone point me in the right direction of setting things up so that the students log in but the authentication is against an Active Directory server? I want the students to still be logging in so I can map their user folder on the windows server and so that their internet access is still logged
<Goosemoose> I'm not sure if Samba is enough for this?
<Goosemoose> Also, is anyone here using edubuntu as a thin client? I'm curious as to what the speed difference is
<Goosemoose> anyone?
<sbalneav> I beleive it is
<pawalls> quick hack for generating username/password the same: http://pastebin.ca/757941
<sbalneav> smbldap is what you need, it does that sort of thing.
<sbalneav> As for thin clients, lots of us here are using edubuntu/ltsp5 thin clients
<dtrask> Goosemoose: contact moquist...he can point you in the right direction I think
<Goosemoose> dtrask, regarding the logins?
<Goosemoose> Ok, I'll check out smbldap
<Goosemoose> How's the speed on the thin clients vs loading off the HD?
<Goosemoose> I like the idea of only having to install things on the server
<Goosemoose> Windows is a PIA when pushing programs
<Goosemoose> doh, both the talking people left!
<Goosemoose> those of you using thin clients. What ratio of clients/servers do you have? What are the specs of the servers?
<ogra> Goosemoose, general rule of thumb is 256M to run the server processes plus 128M for every running session
<ogra> so for 10 clients you should have 256+(10*128)=1.5 gig of ram
<moquist> Goosemoose: we have some servers with 80-100TCs in 4G of ram, dual xeon...but that's a bit much, really
<Goosemoose> ok, so i'd need to look at a few
<Goosemoose> im thinking that ill test out the thin clients in one building for now
<Goosemoose> and use install on the other hd's for now
<Goosemoose> moquist, are you authenticating logins against an AD Server?
<Goosemoose> orga, are you running thin clients, or installing workstations to hd?
<moquist> Goosemoose: no. it's too much work (IMO). We might someday. For now we're authenticating XP against Samba/LDAP running on ubuntu servers.
<scrapbunny> Ok I'm back, give me a minute to read what i missed :)
<Goosemoose> moquist, ok so you'
<Goosemoose> are going the other way around
<Goosemoose> we have 200 xp machines right now and have to keep those due to some other programs we run
<scrapbunny> goosemoose- I just started seting up my lab with edubuntu 7.10 server and gx 110 machines as thin clients. are all of the machines you had donated the same?
<Goosemoose> 2 types
<Goosemoose> both dells
<Goosemoose> P4 2.2 and Celeron 1.7
<moquist> Goosemoose: we have >350 xp machines
<Goosemoose> How do the users login to the ubuntu machines?
<Goosemoose> same username and pass?
<moquist> yes
<moquist> same home directory
<Goosemoose> ok so the home dir is on the linux server though?
<Goosemoose> username/pass is not in AD , it's on a linux server?
<moquist> we don't have a windows server at all
<Goosemoose> ahh
<Goosemoose> I have 4
<Goosemoose> I'm slowly merging things over, but these have to stay
 * moquist understands
<Goosemoose> Have you hard of authenticating against AD?
<scrapbunny> goosemoose- do you just want to have the same username or you you want people to be able to access everything on their xp accounts?
<Goosemoose> Well, I want the user to be able to access their files on the win2003 server, which they could now if they browse to the folder and type in their name/pass
<moquist> Goosemoose: sure, it's just a lot of work to set it up as cleanly as we already have it without AD...and I've never actually seen it work. You usually ed up with two home directories.
<Goosemoose> i also want the students to log in before using the internet, which works as firefoxs asks for their win username & pass
<moquist> it's easy if you don't care about having two home directories.
<Goosemoose> that could be a problem
<moquist> they can get to one from the other, but they're still separate directories.
<moquist> i.e., they can get to the Linux dir from Winders, and vice-versa.
<moquist> (depending on how much setup you do)
<Goosemoose> If I left the systems as is, without setting anything up and just told every student to log in with the same username/pass for edubuntu they'd still have to use their name & pass for internet and their files. the problem is easily mapping the drives for them would require knowing their windows name/pass
<moquist> Goosemoose: are you going to have more than one linux box (not counting thin clients)?
<Goosemoose> I think I'm going to do 30 thin clients on one server
<Goosemoose> And 200 normal clients
<Goosemoose> I don't have the server power right now to run all 230-270 on thin clients
<Goosemoose> I could easily setup a few of these dells as servers i guess
<moquist> Goosemoose: ok; as soon asyou use more than one linux box (not counting TCs) then the AD setup gets difficult (IMO and in my experience).
<scrapbunny> how many different models and video cards do you have with the donated computers goosemoose?
<Goosemoose> you talking about as a server, or even just local installs of edubunto for student use?
<Goosemoose> scrapbunny, i believe just 2. i haven't been through all the machines yet
<Goosemoose> scrapbunny, on the machines i installed already all the included drivers worked. although i haven't tried any 3d stuff yet
<Goosemoose> I'm just afraid that if the students dont have their own name & pass, they will do things like check the save password box in firefox
<Goosemoose> and then anyone would use their account
<scrapbunny> on your question of speed I have so far found that the gx110 boxes I have are running faster as thin clients and I didn't have to add memory. if you want them to run ubuntu 7.10 off the harddrive you will need 512 memory for all the goodies to run well
<Goosemoose> I do have 512 on them. They are actually faster as thin clients than as running off the HD? What type of processor do the gx110 have?
<scrapbunny> now I am not running the full 32 computers from one server yet though
<Goosemoose> These are GX260's
<Goosemoose> oh ok
<Goosemoose> how many at one time?
<dtrask> ogra: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/
<scrapbunny> I am up to 5 running flash internet stuff at the same time right now. personally I would not use 260 as thin clients. I have a 260 and 240 set up with edubuntu on the hard drive and they run awesome with all the bells and whistles
<michelp> howdy!
<scrapbunny> goosemoose- i would get one machine all set up and then copy the harddrive to set up the rest. that would save you from buying or finding 10 servers (if you do the server for every 30 computers)
<scrapbunny> howdy michelp how is uds going?
<Goosemoose> scrapbunny, that's what i was thinking about. or even copying an image to the server and loading the image remotely
<Goosemoose> im just thinking about how i would push updates to the machines
<Goosemoose> is there a way to do that or would i need to reimage them all or install the program manually?
<Goosemoose> script it somehow?
<scrapbunny> dtrask- is pawalls script the one everyone was working on or should I try something else?
<Goosemoose> what do you guys use to lock down the machines so students dont change all the settings?
<Goosemoose> install their own stuff, etc
<Goosemoose> on windows I'm so used to just using group policies
<scrapbunny> i bet there is a script. For the school computers here that are xp I have a group of upper graders I call the Tech Squad and they do updates and installs for me. with ubuntu it would be pretty easiy to train some kids to do the work for you :)
<dtrask> scrapbunny: yes...pawalls wrote the script
<Goosemoose> i've run linux servers for years, this is totally different running workstations
<scrapbunny> great and please thank everyone there :-*
<Goosemoose> I run all 200 machines right now myself just using servers and pushing programs. Much different using ubuntu though
<Goosemoose> what do you guys use to lock down the machines so students dont change all the settings?
<scrapbunny> goosemoose - i think this book has the hacks you want to upgrade a ton of machines http://whitepapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=254339
<Goosemoose> ok, getting it now
<michelp> alrightythen.  scrapbunny to answer your question i am not actually attending UDS, we are a separate Canonical team that happens to be sprinting here in the same location as UDS
<michelp> but we get to eat their food ;)
<Ahmuck> hi.  edubuntu will almost install entirely, then it aborts
<scrapbunny> michelp- are you a person that has any say in getting most tshirt designs? I want to get some shirts and long sleeve stuff :)
<scrapbunny> goosemoose- before creating a harddrive image just setup your user groups so the students are limited users
<michelp> scrapbunny, no i'm afraid i have no influence on those things
<scrapbunny> ahmuck- which edubuntu are you trying to install on what kind of machine?
<Goosemoose> scrapbunny,ok, easy enough. hmm, i bet i could write a script to map the users folders
<Goosemoose> is their a mass create user tool? i'd have to create all 1300 accounts on each machine
<Goosemoose> ugh, the problem would be what to do if a student transferred in
<scrapbunny> goosemoose-i would check the ubuntu forums or #ubuntu irc and see how people set up their user accounts. i bet there is a way to just access the windows accounts
<Goosemoose> ok
<scrapbunny> i have found everyone soooo super helpful and smart I'm sure there is a cheat out there :)
<Goosemoose> lol
<Kamping_Kaiser> Goosemoose, 1300 accounts on each box?
<Kamping_Kaiser> time to implimenent a Directory....
<Goosemoose> i have windows 2003 directories i want to authenticate against
<Goosemoose> that's the hope
<Goosemoose> since the students are moving between windows and edubuntu machines
<Kamping_Kaiser> look at pam_ldap
<Goosemoose> looking...
<Kamping_Kaiser> i dont think the equivilant configuration thing works though :| its broken in debian at least
<scrapbunny> see, I told you helpful and smart :)
<Goosemoose> man stuff is flowing there so fast, i dont think ive seen any responses
<Kamping_Kaiser> #ubuntu? how many people does it have these days?
<Ahmuck> edubuntu server on vbox - gutsy
<Goosemoose> 1300!
<Goosemoose> Kamping_Kaiser, its nuts in there
<Kamping_Kaiser> Goosemoose, lol, its grown a bit since i was there last. looks like the lobby idea hasnt gone through yet *grin*
<Goosemoose> well at least im getting some answers :) http://indianalinux.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_archive.html
<Goosemoose> and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ActiveDirectoryWinbindHowto
<Kamping_Kaiser> Goosemoose, good luck with it
 * Kamping_Kaiser will be back in 2.5 hours at work
<Goosemoose> thanks
<scrapbunny> well i am off to play with my script and see if i can get my student accounts set up. thanks everyone
<scrapbunny> i'll be back with more questions I'm sure :)
<asac> its something like:
 * moquist listens
<asac> bzr bd --export-upstream=/path/pristine/upstream/branch --merge .
<moquist> asac: thx
<Goosemoose> Any idea why I can perform an nslookup from a terminal and it returns the correct ip, i can ping the ip and it works, but pinging the fqdn doesn't work (this is pinging a local windows server)
<sbalneav> dns problem.
<sbalneav> what does host.fqdn return?
<sbalneav> sorry, host host.fqdn
<Goosemoose> let me look
<Goosemoose> host r2d2 and host r2d2.dhs.local both return the correct ip
<Goosemoose> ping r2d2 works
<Goosemoose> ping r2d2.dhs.local does not
<Goosemoose> hmm, i dont remember edubuntu asking me for an admin password when installing, should it have?
<Burgundavia_> Goosemoose: your first user is your admin
<Burgundavia_> we have no root user
<Goosemoose> hmm, i tried su -
<Goosemoose> then entered in the users password but i was told it's invalid
<Goosemoose> i didnt realize ubuntu had no root user, good to know
<Burgundavia_> wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
<Goosemoose> soo, if i can log onto the user, why can't i do things like edit the ntpdate file?
<Goosemoose> oh i see
<Goosemoose> br , thanks Burgundavia
<kgoetz> technically it does have a root user
<kgoetz> but by default you cant log into it
<Goosemoose> yeah i just read that
<Goosemoose> ok, im going to shoot this damn thing
<Goosemoose> how in the hell can i 'ping r2d2' but not 'ping r2d2.dhs.local'
<Goosemoose> that just makes NO sense!
<kgoetz> i have to agree with teh dns theory
<kgoetz> do you have r2d2 in your hosts file?
<Goosemoose> no
<Goosemoose> i have a windows dns server
<Goosemoose> which the ubundtu machine is obviously looking at as it can resolve r2d2 !
<kgoetz> have you checked th servers logs?
<kgoetz> does `host -v r2d2.dhs.local <ip of server>` tell you anything?
<Goosemoose> it tells me the name and address
<Goosemoose> no alias
<Goosemoose> r2d2 is the dns server by the way!
<Goosemoose> but the same thing happens when pinging any of the machines on the network i've tried
<kgoetz> check the server logs
<Goosemoose> hmm
#edubuntu 2007-11-02
<humboldt> anybody there?
<kgoetz> !anybody
<ubotu> A large amount of the first questions asked in this channel start with "Does anyone/anybody..."  Why not ask your next question (the real one) and find out?
<humboldt> When I boot my LTSP gutsy thin clients, after loading the kernel via tfpt I see a message "done". then I have to wait about 4 minutes before the thing actually starts booting.
<humboldt> what is wrong there?
<kgoetz> not sure. could be dns or nfs (my first two guesses)
<humboldt> I am using rom-o-matic boot roms and disks
<humboldt> thought nfs is not used anymore.
<humboldt> and what about dns? how is that used in there?
<kgoetz> nfs may have been dropped - i havent used 7.10 myself
<humboldt> how is dns involved in all this?
<kgoetz> if th dhcp server gave out a hostname not an ip in the path to the file you could hae timeouts
<kgoetz> afk though, lunch
<humboldt> this is really weird
<kgoetz> hi all. how does one go about contributin to the edubuntu docs now its in bzr? is launchpad the canonical place to checkout from for changes?
<edistar> hey, does anyone know how i can disable the dhcpserver when booting?
<Kamping_Kaiser> a server? yes
<Kamping_Kaiser> oh, how
<Kamping_Kaiser> let me check a 6.06 box... not sure about the latest release/s
<edistar> I suppose it's the same
<edistar> do I need to change a ltsp.conf file too? I suppose not, I will tell the dhcp server all the options needed..
<Kamping_Kaiser> edistar, you could remove its interfaces from /etc/default/dhcp3-server to stop it listening, use update-rc.d to remove it from startinga t all
<edistar> okey, thanks
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<sbalneav> Morning Kamping_Kaiser
<Kamping_Kaiser> morning mate
<sakhi> kbye
<MasterOne> hi guys, i just installed edubuntu 7.10, and now I am trying to install the cups pdf printer, but it keeps asking for a password, and the normal user password is not accepted. any hint, what to do?
<musashi1> does anyone know why firefox does not have a the "copy image" on the right click menu? can it be added?
<sbalneav> MasterOne: You're doing this on the server as the admin user?
<MasterOne> yes
<sbalneav> musashi1: Mine has "Save image as"
<sbalneav> I think some web pages disable image saving, maybe you're on one of those.
<sbalneav> Well, it already has a cups pdf printer by default.
<sbalneav> you haven't set a root password, have you?
<RichEd> highvoltage ... pingggggg
<MasterOne> sbalneav: this is a fresh edubuntu 7.10 installation on my LTSP5 server, but there is no printer installed by default (so also no cups pdf)
<sbalneav> what happens if you enter, at a gnome-terminal, "gksu system-config-printer"?
<MasterOne> problem solved :)
<MasterOne> thanks sbalneav
<LaserJock> RichEd: geeze, that ping was so loud it woke me up ;-)
<RichEd> LaserJock: it resonated across the oceanic divide and the general internet echo
<MasterOne> my fault, I wasn't logged in as the sysadmin, but as my testuser (who I also granted sysadmin rights, but who's main group is not sysadmin, but users)
<RichEd> LaserJock: sorry if i disturbed your "I'm avoiding my dissertation nap"
<LaserJock> RichEd: no it was my "I don't wanna go to group meeting, mom, please can I stay in bed"
<RichEd> LaserJock: one of them AA things again ?
<musashi1> sbalneav: we have the save as too but not the copy image. i know some sites disable it but firefox doesn't have the copy image for any images. it's just missing altogether.
<MasterOne> does the folder "public" in my homedir have a special meaning? i just tried copying a file into that folder, but it does not show up when looking into that folder from another user account
<sbalneav> musashi1: I've never seen "copy image", just save image as,
<sbalneav> MasterOne: No idea
<MasterOne> is there a preferred method, to share files on an edubuntu LTSP5 server installation for all connected thin client users?
<musashi1> sbalneav: right, that's the problem. firefox in wondows has this but it seems absent in ubuntu. in some ways it's good since students shouldn't be copying images anyway but the reality is that they do and since they have to save everything it only adds to the percerption that the linux lab isn't as good. i'm trying to fight that perception.
<bddebian> Heya
<sbalneav> musashi1: Well, I don't know anything about the windows version, seeing as how I haven't used windows since '99
<sbalneav> If it's a feature you want, check on the firefox site.
<sbalneav> MasterOne: Probably set up a shared directory, /home/share
<LaserJock> RichEd: you guys figure out what to do with the LiveCD?
<sbalneav> We're in the spec now
<MasterOne> is it a known issue, that mplayer is not working on edubuntu 7.10?
<sbalneav> But no-ones talking.
<RichEd> LaserJock: this session now ... waiting for one mr colin watson
<MasterOne> I meant edubuntu 7.10 64bit installation
<LaserJock> ah
<RichEd> who has just stepped in
<sbalneav> MasterOne: mplayer isn't installed by default, it's totem that we support.
<MasterOne> I know, I just installed mplayer in addition with automatix
<LaserJock> ouch :-/
<sbalneav> Automatix DEFINITELY isn't supported.
<MasterOne> yes?
<MasterOne> is that a bad thing?
<sbalneav> Most of us think so.
<MasterOne> hm
<LaserJock> sbalneav: supposedly there's a "how to make Automatix and Ubuntu  play nicely" BOF this time
<MasterOne> at least it was the fastest way to install all missing av codex
<sbalneav> Yeah, I've seen it.
<sbalneav> Didn't bother to go.
<LaserJock> MasterOne: it has been known to cause serious problems for some people, and in the past did very uncool things
<LaserJock> I've heard that the more recent versions are not so evil
<LaserJock> but if you want to get support don't mention you've installed Automatix ;-)
<MasterOne> latest version is available for gutsy and also as amd64 edition
<LaserJock> MasterOne: it's actually probably not the easiest way
<LaserJock> btw
<LaserJock> almost all the stuff in Automatix can easily be done in Gutsy
<MasterOne> nevertheless, seems like mplayer 2:1.0rc1-0ubuntu13 is broken (when starting gmplayer it just segfaults)
<sbalneav> Well, it's not a package in "main", but in "Universe", so it's supported by the community, not via official channels.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: ?!?!
<LaserJock>  #ubuntu-motu isn't official?
<LaserJock> :-)
<sbalneav> Well, it's not main
<LaserJock> so?
<LaserJock> that just means Canonical doesn't support it
<sbalneav> right.
<sbalneav> That's what I mean.
<sbalneav> it's supported by the community
<MasterOne> LaserJock: i just installed edubuntu 7.10 in my intended xeon LTSP5 server, and I am now testing thin client behavior, totem was complaining about a missing codec for my HDTV test, and it didn't want to download the missing codec, so I just used automatix, which seems to have done the job
<LaserJock> an official community
<LaserJock> MasterOne: ok, but now mplayer is messing up?
<sbalneav> Ok, so the "official community" has to fix it :)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: thanks ;-)
<LaserJock> sbalneav: fine MOTU you'd make :p
<MasterOne> LaserJock: I think I just ticked the "64bit Mplayer Firefox Plugin" option in automatix, which installed mplayer, it installed without a problem, but when I just tried to test it by running gmplayer in a terminal window, it just outputs some info in the console and then segfaults
<sbalneav> What, so if I get motu, I'm automatically responsible for EVERY package in universe?
<MasterOne> just wanted to know if this is a known issue
<sbalneav> MasterOne: Have you checked Launchpad for mplayer bugs?
<sbalneav> I don't use it, so I don't know.
<LaserJock> sbalneav: actually yes
<LaserJock> sbalneav: MOTUs are responsible for all of Universe and Multiverse
<sbalneav> So, an individual motu doesn't just care for his/her own packages that they package?
<LaserJock> not particularly no
<LaserJock> there are no maintainers in Ubuntu
<LaserJock> we co-maintain the whole thing
<LaserJock> sometimes people attach themselves to particular packages or areas
<LaserJock> but any MOTU can upload any package
<sbalneav> I understand that, but if there's a bug with mplayer, there'll be ONE or maybe a few motus out there who will be interested/responsible for fixing the bug.
<LaserJock> actually
<LaserJock> these days it's more likely to be just some random person
<LaserJock> MOTUs are more into the sponsorship game these days
<LaserJock> MasterOne: I'm looking through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/
<LaserJock> there are 84 open bugs so I'm not sure what to look for exactly
<LaserJock> but perhaps you can find it
<MasterOne> no idea, when I start gmplayer in a terminal windows, I just get:
<MasterOne> $ gmplayer
<MasterOne> MPlayer 2:1.0~rc1-0ubuntu13 (C) 2000-2006 MPlayer Team
<MasterOne> CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.20GHz (Family: 15, Model: 4, Stepping: 1)
<MasterOne> CPUflags:  MMX: 1 MMX2: 1 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 1 SSE2: 1
<MasterOne> Compiled with runtime CPU detection.
<MasterOne> xscreensaver_disable: Could not find XScreenSaver window.
<MasterOne> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<sbalneav> Now that the codecs are installed, can you use totem?
<MasterOne> when I try to start mplayer with the file to play in a terminal window, it just ends the output with something like:
<MasterOne> MPlayer interrupted by signal 11 in module: preinit_libvo
<MasterOne> - MPlayer crashed by bad usage of CPU/FPU/RAM.
<sbalneav> Can you try totem?
<MasterOne> is it possible, that this has something to do with the fact, that I am trying to run this from a thin client?
<MasterOne> totem works
<sbalneav> ok
<sbalneav> So, totem works, and is what edubuntu officially ships with, so I'd either recommend to use totem, or check in #ubuntu-motu if you want to get mplayer going.
<MasterOne> just strange, I don't even want to use mplayer, but I thought I test the behavior on the thin client, when playing a 1080i file
<LaserJock> what codecs where you looking for?
<MasterOne> no idea, what was missing before, but it was fixed by the codecs installation from automatix
<LaserJock> yeah, I find that ubuntu-restricted-extras gets pretty much everything
<LaserJock> and it's even easier than automatix ;-)
<musashi1> sbalneav: some of us aren't so lucky and have to use windows at work. i'll check firefox site. thanks for the suggestion
<MasterOne> may be a stupid question, but wha's ubuntu-restricted-extras? is this an additional repo to add?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> we created an package call ubuntu-restricted-extras that install the "goodies" that people want
<MasterOne> something "restricted" is already activated in synaptic
<MasterOne> oh
<LaserJock> it does Flash, Java, DVDs, mp3s, etc.
<LaserJock> the thing is, we *have* most of the codecs already in the repos
<LaserJock> people just don't find them immediatly or don't think to look cause they assume we don't have them
<MasterOne> well, ubuntu-restricted-extras is already installed (may have been done by automatix)
<LaserJock> could be
<LaserJock> in any case, it's a good package to remember
<LaserJock> and in fact, with gusy I think you can install it  by going to apt://ubuntu-restricted-extras in firefox
<LaserJock> *gutsy
<MasterOne> I am actually just playing around on my testinstall, it's a dual xeon 3.2 em64t LTSP5 server, and my test thin-client is my laptop, and I am trying to find out, if it is possible to play HDTV content up to 1080p on the thin-client
<MasterOne> 720p seems to work fine
<MasterOne> but I seem to not have a proper 1080i and 1080p test file
<MasterOne> also the LCD on my laptop is actually only 1600x1200
<LaserJock> pfft
<LaserJock> mine is 1024x768 I think :/
<MasterOne> it would be so cool if a thin client without hdd (and the only moving part being the case fan) could be used to feed a LCD TV or video projector ;)
<sbalneav> lunch
<highvoltage> RichEd: Pongggggg... (leaving again in a minute)
<dtrask> Hi Laserjock and highvoltage!
<highvoltage> dtrask: hi! got to run now, will catch up with you a bit later!!!
<Nubae> hey there, its probably late, but I'll try my luck asking anyway....
<Nubae> I've got 2 chroots running, and when I load a cdrom etherboot cd , the nbd server gives it the wrong image every time...
<Nubae> it should be giving it an image based on the nbdport I thought, but now I'm just not sure...
<humbolto> I am having a problem with gutsy LTSP.
<Nubae> doh! of course... by default its gonna load on port 2000
<Nubae> unless I change the cdroms pxe path
<humbolto> The boot process seems to stop for about 5 minutes right after tftp download is finished.
<humbolto> anybody any idea?
<humbolto> is ogra around?
<humbolto> does anybody have some insights on the ltsp boot process?
<sbalneav> humbolto: Yup, I do.
<sbalneav> What would you like to know?
<humbolto> I upgraded from edgy to feisty. I am booting from rom-o-matic roms and disk images. Now, after the image is loaded via tftp I see the DONE message and then nothing happens for about 4 minutes.
<humbolto> After that time, it boots up normally.
<humbolto> So I would like to find out, what is wrong.
<humbolto> There must be some timeout or something.
<humbolto> sbalneav: It would already help me losts, if I could get the kernel to boot verbosely. Then maybe I can see, where it hangs.
<sbalneav> Well, there should be a kernel command line option.
<sbalneav> I know where it is for pxe
<humbolto> Any idea what could cause the delay?
<sbalneav> it's in the /var/lib/tftboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
<sbalneav> So, it gets the kernel? and then delays?  Or it's delaying before the download.
<humbolto> I have a custom dhcpd.conf, but with all the options that come with ltsp-server-standalone
<sbalneav> can you paste the dhcpd.conf file to the pastebin?
<sbalneav> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<humbolto> no, it shows lots of ....... for the tftp download then DONE and than nothing.
<Nubae> funny... I get the same thing on some of my clients
<Nubae> just 3 or 4 out of 50 though
<Nubae> eventually they load up
<humbolto> sbalneav: dhcpd.conf http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/43034/
<humbolto> Nubae: how do you boot the clients in question? rom/disk/pxe?
<sbalneav> root-path shouldn't have an ip address on it.
<sbalneav> it's not used with LTSP5
<humbolto> sbalneav: did not have it fist. Just put it in there, because it was in an older config, which worked. So I also had the problem without the IP.
<humbolto> Do I need to specify anything in lts.conf?
<humbolto> If I want to leave everything at auto.
<sbalneav> The default lts.conf should be fine.
<humbolto> sbalneav: the default is empty except for the version information
<Nubae> cdrom
<musashi1> sbalneav: re the firefox and copy image menu, it seems it's been filed as a bug but not likely to get fixed. https://bugs.launchpad.net/firefox/+bug/20036
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 20036 in firefox "Contextual menu item 'copy image' inexistent" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<sbalneav> Right, it's a mozilla/firefox issue
<sbalneav> so if they don't implement it, we don't have it :)
<musashi1> seems so. kind of annoying. is there another "good" option for a browser on edubuntu? epiphany? never used it so not sure.
<musashi1> firefox is kind of a resource hog anyway
<sbalneav> Epiphany's ok, but it's using the gecko engine, same as firefox.
<musashi1> oh
<sbalneav> In hardy, Epiphany will switch over to webkit
<sbalneav> which will be lighter weight.
<musashi1> that sounds like a good plan
<musashi1> any other options for short term?
<sbalneav> Lots.  Konqueror, opera, links2, etc.
<musashi1> well, konqueror and opera are probably no better than firefox (maybe worse). or do you think one of them would be a good option for a thin client lab. i don't know links2. i'll check it out
<sbalneav> Well, there's nothing wrong with firefox, other than it doesn't have your copy feature.
<JordanC> Yes
<musashi1> true, but for a lot of what teachers are using the lab for it's a point agaist a lab they don't like on principle. they "look" for reasons to complain. i'm trying to reduce the reasons :)
<sbalneav> So putting in something wildly different will generate less complaints than something very close to what they're used to execpt for one minor feature? :)
<musashi1> good point. probably not. i was just looking to give them options. "if you don't like that, try this" kind of approach.
<humbolto> sbalneav, Nubae: Do you guys have any suggestion on where I could start looking to resolve this issue?
<humbolto> sbalneav: Nubae: And can the lts.conf file really be empty or do I need at least a SERVER=x.x.x.x in there?
<bryang> musashi1, it does seem to be very dependent on the site serving the images
<musashi1> bryang: i think it's missing in firefox altogether. there is a bug report
<musashi1> though more a missing feature than a bug
<sbalneav> SERVER=x would help, humbolto
<bryang> musashi1, fwiw, filed the gutsy install issue/bug -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/159526
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 159526 in ltsp "Edubuntu 7.10 install fails on system with 3 NICs" [Undecided,New]
<musashi1> bryang: did you need the syslog from that install? or did i give it to you
<bryang> you did give me the syslog (and included the relevant snippet in bug report)
<musashi1> okay
<musashi1> bryang: some did ask for more info. do we have it?
<bryang> ah, yes, will supply the whole file, sorry, didn't see the follow-up
<bryang> this the installer syslog, right ?
<bryang> s/the/was/
<bryang> musashi1: /var/log/installer/syslog, right ?
<musashi1> uh, no. just /var/log/syslog i think
<musashi1> didn't save dmesg
 * bryang nods
<musashi1> shoot, went to get some pics of the lab and first time in two days no one is there :(
<bryang> any good/bad comments from today ?
<musashi1> not really. same classes as yesterday. they seem to like it but complain about it being different. ot, but dispite what teachers believe, most students are NOT tech literate.
<musashi1> at least not in this building
<bryang> i did notice that more yesterday when there
<musashi1> thanks to ms, if a certain sequence of clicks doesn't do what they want they are lost
<musashi1> tobacco companies were sued for damaging public health, ms should be sued for damaging tech literacy :)
<bryang> heh
<musashi1> i just started installing all the supported ed apps. hope that's okay
<bryang> oh, ya, apt-get on ;)
<musashi1> should have installed by default. not sure why they didn't
<bryang> prolly no room on cd (tis why there's a 2nd one, iirc)
<musashi1> maybe, but it asked for the cd when i tried to install them
<musashi1> something is obviously there
<bryang> nope, the cd is still in /etc/apt/sources.list, you can delete with the software sources GUI
 * bryang or vi/gedit/... of course ;)
<musashi1> i though it did that on it's own.
<musashi1> i still need to test the local media stuff too. seems inconsistent
<bryang> does comment, but also leaves one in place too
<LaserJock> RichEd: still around?
<stgraber> LaserJock: he has just left de room, but his laptop is still here so he'll be back soon :)
<LaserJock> k
<leonard> Hi
<leonard> I just have a quick question: If I install edubuntu on parallels on my mac, what option should I use? In other words, what form of linux os is it? There is no listing for edubuntu...
<scrapbunny> hello, i am having a problem with tux paint and tux math freezing on my thin clients I am testing out. are there any fixes for this?
<leonard> there is redhat
<leonard> debian
<leonard> suse
<leonard> etc...
<leonard> anyone know of a solution?
<stgraber> debian
<stgraber> (if there is no ubuntu)
<leonard> ok-thanks a lot :D
<leonard> sorry for logging off so quickly-did you change something?
<leonard> you said to use debian?
<leonard> is that right?
<stgraber> yes, if there is no ubuntu in the list
<leonard> ok
<leonard> thanks
<leonard> :D
<stgraber> np
<RichEd> LaserJock: am now
<LaserJock> RichEd: so, how'd the DesktopCD discussion go?
<RichEd> LaserJock: well in principle
<LaserJock> hmm, that sounds like a "but in practice ..." :-)
<scrapbunny> any fixes for tux math and tux paint freezing?
<LaserJock> scrapbunny: they're both doing it?
<scrapbunny> yea first tux paint frooze and I tried tux math and it froze
<LaserJock> on Gutsy?
<scrapbunny> I only have 3 clients up pxe booting from edubuntu 7.10
<scrapbunny> i am trying to see which programs have sound and run best before I add more clients
<outofrange> Should a default 7.10 server install have NFS?  Looking at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPCrossArchSetup and I don't have etc/exports on my server.
<Burgundavia> no, it doesn't
<Burgundavia> you need to install nfs-kernel-server
<LaserJock> scrapbunny: so this is on gutsy thin clients that they freeze?
<LaserJock> scrapbunny: and when do they freeze?
<outofrange> Doesn't looks like I'll have any luck anyway,  I can get the Server CD to boot in the G4, but the Desktop Live CD hangs.  And I think I need the live CD to install the powerpc environment on my i386 server.
<LaserJock> why do you need a Desktop CD?
<outofrange> I need to boot a powerpc machine to build the /opt/ltsp/powerpc on the i386 server so I can boot my powerpc thin clients.
<outofrange> At least I think that's what I need.;)
<scrapbunny> laserjock- yes gutsy clients and I can't see a pattern to when they freeze. they will work for 20 minutes sometimes, 40 minutes other times
<LaserJock> scrapbunny: hmmm, that's hard to debug
<scrapbunny> are there certain programs that run better on thin client set ups?
<scrapbunny> or don't run well?
<LaserJock> hmm, the only things I've really heard of are really CPU intenstive things
<LaserJock> like if everybody goes to a Flash site or something and it bogs down the server
<scrapbunny> so tux math and typing and paint should be ok to run on 32 stations from one server right?
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> as long as the server is got enough resources
<LaserJock> you're not going to want to put it on a 1GHZ P4 with 256MB of RAM ;-)
<humbolto> which inetd daemon to use in combination with LTSP?
<humbolto> can I use xinetd and openbsd-inetd in parallel?
<scrapbunn1> sorry, internet dies
<outofrange> Ok, so I found a spare hard drive and I'm installing 7.10 on a G4.  When I'm done can I just copy /opt/ltsp/powerpc to my (real) i386 ltsp server?
<LaserJock> that seems a bit excessive to me
<outofrange> WHich part?  installing the server?
<LaserJock> well, ltsp only needs a minimal Ubuntu installtion
<outofrange> Well, all I have is the Edubuntu Server and Desktop cds.
<outofrange> And the Desktop Live CD won't boot
<LaserJock> hmm, there's no option for ltsp-build-client to build a ppc chroot?
<outofrange> Not that I'm aware of, but I'm new to LTSP.
<humbolto> I have a weird weird issue with LTSP booting in gutsy!
<humbolto> After the tftp nib.img download, which ends with "...... done" nothing is happening for about 5 minutes.
<LaserJock> it's probably good to email edubuntu-users guys
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu Developer Summit is just wrapping up so ogra and some of the other LTSP guys are not here at the moment
<LaserJock> I'm of virtually 0 use with LTSP unfortunately
<purpleposeidon> You can plug a usb drive into a thin client, and it will be shown on the server, right?
<Kamping_Kaiser> it should show on the client
<purpleposeidon> What about other USB devices?
<lns__> can anyone tell me why lts.conf "RCFILE_XX" wouldn't work in Gutsy?
<lns__> i have "RCFILE_01=/etc/init.d/ipaqsoundfix.sh" in lts.conf (located in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386)
<lns__> with ipaqsoundfix located at /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/init.d
<Kamping_Kaiser> purpleposeidon, not sure.
<lns__> and it does not get executed upon thin-client boot
<purpleposeidon> Kamping_Kaiser: What is it that makes that happen?
<lns__> sorry.. s/ipaqsoundfix/ipaqsoundfix.sh
<Kamping_Kaiser> purpleposeidon, not sure, i havent used 7.10
#edubuntu 2007-11-03
<EightiesK> hello
<EightiesK> would anyone know of a package that I might be able to learn german from?
<Burgundavia> don't think so
<EightiesK> what's edubuntu for then?
<EightiesK> just learning linux?
<Burgundavia> there do exist a few language learning apps
<Burgundavia> but none for German
<Burgundavia> it would lovely if such a program exists
<EightiesK> can i install edubuntu from ubuntu??
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<Burgundavia> all the various versions of Ubuntu share the same base
<EightiesK> but would it be best to konsole or thru packages manager?
<Burgundavia> they all drive into the same package db
<Burgundavia> use what you are most comfortable with
<EightiesK> thank you.
<Burgundavia> no worries
<EightiesK> I want to learn german very badly.
<EightiesK> for travel.
<Caram> To pick up german girls? :P
<Burgundavia> right
<Caram> I bet you would learn it as you travel...
<Caram> I know many people do
<Burgundavia> the best way to learn a language is to be there
<EightiesK> IC
<Burgundavia> you need to be insanely disciplined to learn a language without immersion
<bddebian> Heya
<Nuba1> hi... Can Anyone help me with local devices on ltsp... I'm not getting any luck with gutsy...
<Nuba1> non of my thin clients, and there are all kinds, get a connection... I've been through the localdev debugging wiki guide
<Nuba1> everything works out... so not sure what to do now
<arnaudJ_> soir
<joebob777as7> my mouse is not working on any of my clients... anyone have any idea on as to why this is happening?
<johnny_> hi edubuntu folks
<Kamping_Kaiser> morning :)
<johnny_> i just updated my ltsp install on gutsy ubuntu
<johnny_> everything seems ok, except ti removed nfs-kernel-server so i had t readd it back
<johnny_> it*
<johnny_> until i figure out how to make it work with some other fashion
<johnny_> for some reason, my thin clients can't control their own volume
<Kamping_Kaiser> 7.10 ltsp doesnt use nfs. i dont know what it does instead though
<johnny_> they control the system volume
<johnny_> any ideas ?
<johnny_> i thought it was supposed to use ltspfs
<johnny_> or something like that
<Kamping_Kaiser> not me. hang around, someone may be able to help you
<johnny_> surely i will :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> :)
#edubuntu 2007-11-04
<cbx33> ping LaserJock
<outofrange> dhcpd.conf for i386 has option root-path "/opt/ltsp/i386"; and  filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";  What should it be for powerpc?  /opt/ltsp/powerpc and /ltsp/powerpc/yaboot?
<johnny_> i never adjusted this for the original ltsp install, but it's been using bind mounts the entire time
<dtrask> evening all
<dtrask> from hurricane central
<LaserJock> hi dtrask
<LaserJock> little windy? ;-)
<dtrask> kinda windy here....big blow
<dtrask> we're here at LTSP by the sea....orgra, sbalneaves, moquist, jammcq, and a bunch of others up here in Southwest Harbor Maine....right on the ocean
<LaserJock> great
<wizzy> I run "ltsp-build-client --mirror file:///media/cdrom0 --security-mirror none" but get a complaint about packages not authenticated and "-y was used without --force-yes, LTSP client installation ended abnormally"
<bddebian> Heya
<Gladk> Hi All!
<popey> hello all in plymouth
<popey> showed my daughter the classmate pc when i got home
<popey> she loves it :)
<popey> (as does my 1 year old son)
<Gladk> Please, can anybody give a link of successfull experience of using Edubuntu in schools?
<sbalneav> Afternoon all
#edubuntu 2008-10-27
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<Eeyore-Sr> hi sbalneav
<admin__> hello
<admin__> what is this
<HedgeMage> hello, admin__
<admin__> hi
<HedgeMage> this is Edubuntu chat -- support, dev, the whole ball of wax
<admin__> can you help me with kubuntu
<HedgeMage> try #kubuntu or #ubuntu :)
<admin__> #ubuntu
<HedgeMage> and don't private message people for help, it's very rude and will ensure folks don't want to help you
<admin__> ok
<HedgeMage>  /join #kubuntu
<kwak_> hi, 8.10 is 3 days away. will there be big problems if i use it for server now and install the current education addon
<Eeyore-Sr> kwak_: i've been running 8.10 RC
<Eeyore-Sr> in a test situation, but it appears to be doing ok
<sbalneav> Morning all
<berriop> it is possible to use the compiz 3d desktop in the thin clients??
<berriop> in the server is working ok but in the clients i cannot use it!!
<berriop> ooops sorry i dint update the image
<Eeyore-Sr> berriop: u need a fat clinet
<ogra> Eeyore-Jr, it should work on TCs as well
<ogra> at least on clients with intel cards
<ogra> but you need to somehow circumvent the local tests for composite support compiz does on startup (i.e. it looks into Xorg.0.log of the server and checks the server HW ... behavior you dont want on on a thin client)
<berriop> so do u have compiz working in your clients??
<Eeyore-Sr> ogra: really?  now i am confused
<berriop> sorry I have to left d computer for a while
<berriop> so how can I make compiz to work in the clients?
<berriop> now I am using a laptop as a server, a Acer aspire with intel drivers, i guess
<ogra> berriop, we played with it in gutsy in the ltsp team ... i havent tried it since but there are surely ways to make it work
<berriop> ogra: do you know about any documentation or howto where i can look a?
<ogra> nope
<berriop> ogra: were u able to set up the 3d desktop cube in the clients?
<ogra> yes, there should be some videos on the net somewhere using a classmate PC as thin client
<ogra> but dont ask me about the setup :)
<berriop> ok, thanks
<stgraber> I managed to have compiz running as a localapp, works quite well but it's clearly not something I'm spending a lot of time on :)
<berriop> why compiz is not enable on the clients???
<stgraber> ogra: btw, http://www.stgraber.org/download/italc-ltsp.png :)
<ogra> because most thin client hardware doesnt have composite capable cards
<stgraber> that's our ltspdemo server running in Seattle
<ogra> wow
<ogra> thats a lot of clients
<stgraber> 43 clients running on a QuadCore 2.5Ghz with 4GB of RAM, running the whole ltsp-cluster infrastructure (in OpenVZ)
<ogra> an a lot of irssi windows as well :P
<stgraber> iTalc is running locally and they all have localapps support (firefox, blender, audacity, celestia and skype)
<ogra> nice
<stgraber> yeah, Intrepid really rocks for LTSP
<ogra> yup
<ogra> it has the quality i had wished for hardy
<stgraber> yeah, and we initialy planned to have Intrepid as a devel-only release for ltsp-cluster but things may change, it's really stable and provides some long-awaited features
<berriop> heyy that looks nice
<berriop> which manager are you using??
<ogra> yeah, intrepid is definately the best ltsp we have atm
<berriop> nice to see intrepid is really suitable for ltsp
<berriop> ok i can see is italc, but what other manager are there for ltsp admin?
<berriop> i need a simple one, not teaching oriented, just showing the clients connected and a few more options
<stgraber> ltsp cluster has a configuration manager too, but this one is a bit broken and is pending a complete rewrite
<ogra> there is think-client-manager which does a very low level job of user management (like a very cut down italc) and is unmaintained
<stgraber> well, then for just showing the clients, iTalc should be good
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> italc is the thing you want
<berriop> ok, i ll try italc
<berriop> :)
<berriop> and another quest. is anyone working in enable wireless pxe booting??
<ogra> ask the hardware manufacturers :)
<berriop> do u know any wifi card with pxe enabled?
<stgraber> wireless pxe is not possible, you can do fake PXE boot using an initrd with a minimal wireless-aware system but that'll still require a harddisk/ssd/flash/whatever other block device
<ogra> you can surely set up a minimal system to boot from a local disk and get up wlan etc ... but pxe happens on a hardware level in the NIC
<stgraber> berriop: there's none, that's the problem
<stgraber> berriop: you'd need a wireless card with a BIOS that lets you configure your wireless, then PXE boot, but that doesn't exist
<berriop> we should make one then :)
<berriop> nahhh
<stgraber> if you do one, I'd buy one for sure :)
<ogra> i think there is a way to use ethernet bridges, with that you can use normal ltsp with a PXE nic thats attached to the bridge
<stgraber> yeah, I've done that in a school
<stgraber> though you'll need a really good wireless network to do PXE booting
<ogra> and/or ltsp :)
<stgraber> yeah
<ogra> 54Mbit are not really performant
<stgraber> especially the X11 data
<stgraber> if you're then using NX/RDP or similar stuff it's fine though
<ogra> but requires a lot of hacking to ltsp as well
<berriop> yep i knew about the bridge but i didnt try it yet
<Eeyore-Sr> stgraber: i'm about to purchase a quadcore 2.4 with 4g ram
<Eeyore-Sr> irssi windows?
<berriop> i am trying to set up italc, i am following this manual http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=702437
<stgraber> Eeyore-Sr: for how many clients ?
<berriop> when I run the ica command says "errorÃ port 5800" already in use"
<berriop> in the client
<Eeyore-Sr> stgraber: 7
<berriop> how can i set up italc with ltsp?
<stgraber> Eeyore-Sr: oh, only, that'll be fine then :)
<Eeyore-Sr> my problem is running high end graphics, which i didn't realize was going to be a rpoblem and i was going to need thick clients
<berriop> the ltsp section in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/iTalc is empty
<Eeyore-Sr> wow, what pic did you send.  it looks like an overview of every desktop?!
<berriop> how can i install and run italc with ltsp, I will update the info into the wiki...
<Eeyore-Sr> is that italc?  i'd love that abilty
<berriop> stgraber??!!
<berriop> I am running italc in the server ï»¿when I run the ica command in the client says "errorÃ port 5800" already in use"
<berriop> how can i change the port that the clients use for ica??
<stgraber> sorry I'm doing ISO testing
<berriop> its ok
<berriop> if you can help me in another time, please let me know it
<ogra> if you help iso testing you can speed up stgraber  ;)
<berriop> lol
<berriop> how can i do iso testing
<berriop> ?
<berriop> i would be glad to give u a hand
<ogra> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<berriop> ok i ll have a look at that
<berriop> ok, ubuntu server i386 downloading... :)
<Lns> I have a question about removing some individual clipart pics from the Ubuntu openclipart-png/-svg .. I've tried manually removing the files but they still show up in the OOo gallery preview. Any cleaner ways to do this?
<Lns> Some of them are deemed inappropriate at the elementary schools I work for
<Eeyore-Jr> ogra: i can help do iso testing
<ogra> Eeyore-Jr, go ahead then :)
<Eeyore-Jr> i've got another questions.  virtual machine with windows on it.
<Eeyore-Jr> will it come through the pipe
<Eeyore-Jr> or online movies?
<sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: Will what come though the pipe?
<Eeyore-Jr> online movies to the fat client
<Eeyore-Jr> or thin client
<sbalneav> Depends on how you set it up.
<sbalneav> What online movies are we talking about?  Youtube?
<Eeyore-Jr> no, netflix
<Eeyore-Jr> thin client --> server --> virtualbox --> windows --> netflix
<Eeyore-Jr> or, thin client --> server --> virutalbox --> autodesk
<sbalneav> Usually, any kind of fullscreen multimedia application isn't a good fit for a thin client.
<Eeyore-Jr> though i don't suppose the people using autodesk should be the same people using online movie viewing
<Eeyore-Jr> that's where the fat client comes in.  is there a way to offload the processing to the server but the video to the client?
<Eeyore-Jr> or on a fat client must both the processing and the video be done on the fat client?
<sbalneav> Well, that's what a thin client is: processing on the server, video on the thin client.
<sbalneav> but that means you have to push the video out to the thin client over the wire.
<sbalneav> If you want fast video, you'll have to do the processing down on a fat client.
<Eeyore-Jr> hrm, i was thinking that everything was happening on the server and then the video was getting pushed over the wire to the client and the client was only doing the display
<sbalneav> that's right.
<Eeyore-Jr> with new video cards, they won't processes the video alone?
<sbalneav> No, they never do.
 * Eeyore-Jr starts looking at my stock
<sbalneav> Your video card doesn't know anything about avi or mpg4 files.
<Eeyore-Jr> ah.  me is wondering when the day will be that processing happens on the video card :)
<sbalneav> the processor has to decode them, and produces full frames, and sends them to a video card.
<Eeyore-Jr> ok.  well, that clears up the picture for me
<sbalneav> in the case of a thin client, the full frame then has to be sent across the network.
<Eeyore-Jr> so will you be getting the "fat client" script done before the release, or will this be an after thingy
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: that makes sense
<Eeyore-Jr> now i understand what's going on
<sbalneav> Typically, anything very graphics intensive, such as fullscreen video, or OpenGL games (like, say, quake) aren't a good fit for thin clients.
<sbalneav> I'm not doing the fat client script.  I only work on the thin client side of things.
<sbalneav> No interest in fat clients :)
<sbalneav> Sorry, that wasn't clear.  *I* have no interest in fat clients.
<sbalneav> Certainly other people are.
<Eeyore-Jr> ah.  i thought you were doing something late last week with the server knowing the difference between fat and thin clients
<sbalneav> No, I think Nubae's working on fat clients.
 * Eeyore-Jr will have to check logs at home
<Eeyore-Jr> i recall you talking to LaserJock about something ?
<sbalneav> About what?
 * Eeyore-Jr forgets
<Eeyore-Jr> i forget a lot of stuff
<Eeyore-Jr> ah, lstp.conf something
<sbalneav> Probably, what did you want to know about?
<Eeyore-Jr> let me review my irc logs and make sure i was understanding everything
<Eeyore-Jr> ah, something about getting certian things like blender, etc. to work better
<sbalneav> Well, you'd probably want to make sure that X isn't being encrypted, whick is the default.
<sbalneav> So, you'd want to put in LDM_DIRECTX=true into your lts.conf
<Eeyore-Jr> on a side note, with the monitoring application you mentioned, what kind of privacy laws surround it?
<sbalneav> What monitoring application?  You mean italc?
<Eeyore-Jr> yep
<sbalneav> Well, the privacy laws where *I* am are probably quite distinct from the privacy laws where *YOU* are.  Since IANAL, I'd suggest checking with your local lawyer/boss/schoolboard/etc.
<Eeyore-Jr> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815101001 - i think this is windows only, as it uses a "virutal" driver
<Eeyore-Jr> should i be using cat5e or cat6?
<sbalneav> Which, for that product?
<sbalneav> It doesn't use a network connection at all.  It's a usb -> vga adapter
<Eeyore-Jr> no, for the network.  gigabyte network nics and switch
<Eeyore-Jr> nm, let me do my research
<Eeyore-Jr> cat6 is what i need
<sbalneav> lol, you gotta stop handing me non-sequitors
<Eeyore-Jr> :)
<Eeyore-Jr> the edubuntu rc is a "addon" iso ?
<Eeyore-Jr> is there a way to "freeze" the menu of a particular flavor of *untu
<sbalneav> Yes, Edubuntu is an addon cd
<Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: not the ltsp server?
<Eeyore-Jr> so i need a flavor first and then the addon
<sbalneav> Yes
<sbalneav> Usually, you'd install Ubuntu, then add on the Edubuntu cd.
<sbalneav> Sabayon is the tool you'd use to lock down desktops.
<Eeyore-Jr> ah, kewl for the info on sabyon.  that is part of the "add-on" cd
<Eeyore-Jr> so somebody said something about ldm vs gdm or kdm
 * Eeyore-Jr hrm, i was thinking saboyon was a linux flavor
<Eeyore-Jr> k, nm, found it
<Eeyore-Jr> i found an artilce that suggests that kde kiosk has better tools?
<sbalneav> Dunno, I never use KDE.
<sbalneav> looks too much like windows.
<Eeyore-Jr> :)
<sbalneav> Gave that bad habit up years ago.
<sbalneav> Windows 98 was the last version of Windows I ran.
<sbalneav> Discovered Linux in '93, ran both 'till '99, been running without windows at all since Late '99
<sbalneav> next year will be my 10th anniversary.
<Lns> sbalneav: *party* !
 * Lns has been running various Linux distros since ~95
<Lns> and I'd say I'm MS free (besides quickbooks, which mostly my accountant uses) since ...eh... 2004? It's hard when your business is partly supporting M$ users =p
<Eeyore-Jr> same here.  however, i've been pretty much a user since 2003
<Eeyore-Jr> all of my people are windows.  this will be the first *nix network
<Lns> Eeyore-Jr: congrats!
<Lns> and good luck with all of the resistance ;)
<Eeyore-Jr> it's a test lab, we will see
<Eeyore-Jr> i've been looking for way to intergrate windows apps.  i'm scared i might have stuck myself out on a limb so to speak
<Lns> Eeyore-Jr: what windows apps do you need?
<Eeyore-Jr> autodesk
<Eeyore-Jr> some piano learning software
<Eeyore-Jr> artrage
<Lns> hmm...autodesk would be difficult to run in a linux env, let alone TC env
<Lns> pretty damn intensive and tied up w/MS stuff...i don't think cxoffice even supports that
<Eeyore-Jr> virtualbox
<Eeyore-Jr> virtualbox & windows xp pro
<Lns> there ya go
 * Lns almost always prefers Virtualization over wine/friends
<Eeyore-Sr> u can run vbox via ltsp ?
<Eeyore-Sr> er over?
<Lns> I tried vbox before, ran into some networking issues...I like vmware *ducks* it's free and works very well.
#edubuntu 2008-10-28
<Nubae> where can I get a .svg logo of edubuntu?
<Eeyore-Jr> think i need a quad core, or would a core 2 duo work?
<Robb_M> weird question about the edubuntu addon cd.........is it also lts like ubuntu itself or what?
<Robb_M> I have tried asking this in #ubuntu itself..but..nobody seems to know the answer....
<gpearson> Anyone have docs on how to script the install process so multiple computers are installed the same way automatically
<sbalneav> gpearson: I think there's a page on the Ubuntu wiki for that.  I think it's either called "quickstart" or "bootstrap".  Not sure.
<Ahmuck> what does the local app menu do ?
<Lns> Ahmuck: What do you think it does? :)
<Ahmuck> ?
<Ahmuck> Lns: sbalneav local app menu
<Ahmuck> Lns: sbalneav's local app menu, what he's working on
<Lns> Ahmuck: I'm guessing its a menu that runs locally installed applications (to be run from the thin client directly and not from the server)
<Ahmuck> iirc, it runs the apps, locally, but the app is installed at the server level
#edubuntu 2008-10-29
<sbalneav> Evening all
<stgraber> hey sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hey stgraber
<sbalneav> So, when we get to Maine, I'll ply you with beer, and have you teach me more about packaging.
<stgraber> sbalneav: no problem :)
<stgraber> sbalneav: I'll also have some LDM bugs/improvements to do :)
<sbalneav> Yeah, so will I
<sbalneav> And I want to spend some time cleaning up the docs some more.
<stgraber> yeah, there's work to do there for sure, even if at least on the Ubuntu side it recently improved a lot.
<stgraber> sbalneav: btw, http://blog.revolutionlinux.com/en/post/2008/10/28/T-L-2008-%3A-Thin-Client-Lab-Setup
<stgraber> I hope I'll be able to bring that server to the Hackfest but we may be a bit short to get it back from Seattle in time
<stgraber> CoreQuad is really good to generate squashfs images :)
<Ahmuck> what is italc?
<stgraber> a classroom management tool
<Ahmuck> i'm setting up a lab similar this week
<Ahmuck> this very similar to what i'm doing so this interests me
<stgraber> http://italc.sf.net and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/italc may be good starting points then
<Ahmuck> got it
<Ahmuck> thx
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: were u doing something with "local menus".  i almost understand what your doing, but not positive
<Ahmuck> i'm looking at a linksys/cisco gigabyte smart switch, i assume will work well
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: No, I beleive that was stgraber
<Ahmuck> ah, ok
<Ahmuck> stgraber: u were doing something with "local menus" ?
<stgraber> yeah, I did some scripts that can generate a "local applications" menu based on what you have installed in your chroot
<stgraber> these are currently part of ltsp-cluster and I'll discuss including them (or at least keeping the idea) at LTSP by the sea
<Ahmuck> based on the install in chroot?
<Ahmuck> i'd like to try them.  individualized menus for each machine?
<Ahmuck> or by machine type?
<stgraber> it's by chroot, it's not depending on the machine or the machine specification but that may be something we'll want to include in that script soon though
<Ahmuck> ok, i don't understand chroot entirely, but can read up on it.  in a mixed thin/fat client environment, i would assume that your local menus can be tailored to thin or fat clients.  in particular, i'd like to remove menu items from the thin client menus such as "hugin", battle of wesnoth, etc.
<Ahmuck> :), iTalc = italc
<Ahmuck> the cap T threw me
<Ahmuck> i've been searching through my notes for the other "italc" software
<stgraber> upstream always tell me to write it iTalc, so I just do what Tobias tells me to do :)
<Eeyore-Jr> meeting is tomorrow?
<stgraber> no
<stgraber> next week
<Eeyore-Jr> ah, the wiki says every wednesday.  ok, i'll try to sit in next week.  i think i'm on vacation next week
<pips1> ogra: is RichEd around? I can help prepping the edubuntu.org site today, but not tomorrow.. :-/
<ogra> no idea where RichEd is
<ogra> i havent talked to him since he left my house over a week ago
<pips1> darn
<pips1> you aren't involved in the edubuntu release?
<pips1> I mean: are you?
<pips1> nubae hi
<pips1> Nubae: hi
<pips1> David Van Assche ? hello?
 * ogra guesses nubae is busy
<pips1> right
<pips1> today, everbody in ubuntu land is busy :-)
<pips1> *everybody
<Nubae> hi
<Nubae> am around now
<Nubae> what's up?
<Nubae> was cooking gulasch
<Nubae> :D
<pips1> Nubae: hi, I'm webmaster of edubuntu.org, I noticed that you have a editor account
<pips1> unfortunately, I won't be able to update the site tomorrow for the release and I was hoping to find someone to help out
<Nubae> sure
<Nubae> run me through it quickly, and ill do it
<pips1> we'll need to update the download page and put the release notes up too
<Nubae> k
<pips1> hold on.. I'm also cooking and I need to check on my food :-)
<pips1> Nubae: are you going to be around for 30 min - 40 mins? that way, I could eat.. :-)
<pips1> I haven't been able to get in touch with RichEd just now, he is supposed to write the release notes.. so it depends on him as well...
<pips1> so basically, we need to update 2 pages
<pips1> http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
<pips1> and a new release notes, similar to http://www.edubuntu.org/news/8.04-release
<Nubae> yeah
<Nubae> go eat ;-)
<pips1> RichEd: hey!
<pips1> I was hoping I'd find you here
<RichEd> hi pips
<pips1> hi
<pips1> how is it going?
<pips1> Nubae: might be able to help out with updating edubuntu.org tomorrow
<Nubae> yup sure thing, at what time?
<pips1> normally in the morning, until around lunch time (UTC timezone)
<pips1> i believe u r in vienna?
<Nubae> right
<pips1> im in zurich
<Nubae> ah cool, not far
<pips1> yep
<pips1> :-)
<ogra> you could get away from IRC and communicate by putting messages on little paper planes :)
<pips1> oops, now I need to take care of my son... change diapers.. it's "papa day" :-)
<pips1> ogra: hehe
<Nubae> yeah or  2 cans on a long string...
<pips1> brb
 * Nubae goes check on his Gulash
<ogra> Nubae, well, cars and trucks hitting the string might be a bit disturbing :=
<Nubae> ah but we have tall mountains here ;-)
<ogra> heh
<RichEd> Nubae: thanks ... i'll grab you here tomorrow if i need help okay ?
<RichEd> pips1: does Nubae have the edit righte he needs ?
<pips1> RichEd: he has "editor" rights, lemme double check.. not sure if he can create new pages. It always easier to work on a new page quietly and then simply redirect the url to that new page once it's ready
<pips1>  Nubae are you familiar with Drupal? do you know how to change an aliase to a new node?
<pips1> RichEd: I notice several new drupal user accounts on edubuntu.org - all unknown to me
<pips1> there is 'tirion' with siteadmin rights
<pips1> familiar?
<pips1> is it https://launchpad.net/~tirion ?
<pips1> his name sounds familiar to me..
<pips1> Nubae: perhaps you know tirion ^^^ ? he opened the drupal account around the same time as you..
<pips1> oops strike that
<pips1> tirion got his account 27 weeks ago, you did 2 weeks ago?
<pips1> Nubae: are you here? can I quickly talk you through it?
<Nubae> yep
<pips1> great
<pips1> I only have 20-30 mins, then I need to go
<pips1> first of all, perhaps I can introduce you to matt nuzum, the ubuntu.com webmaster
<Nubae> ok, sorry was preparing my servietten knÃ¶del
<pips1> just in case you need some expert help :-)
<Nubae> I'm here now though, just reading through what u wrote
<pips1> ahhh nice
<Nubae> ok I know drupal a bit, though worked much more with joomla
<pips1> I've been wanting to come to austria for a long time now, just for the fantastic food :-)
<pips1> ok, so let me introduce you to matt nuzum
<pips1> join us in #ubuntu-website
<Nubae> ok
<RichEd> pips1: who else is allowed to create accounts ? i thought it was just you and highvolt1ge
<pips1> RichEd: no. there are several people with siteadmin rights
<pips1> RichEd: MatthewNuzum JordanMantha tirion <-- don't know the last person
<RichEd> ta
<pips1> RichEd: I talked Nubae through the procedure of updating the download page and the release notes... i also introduced him to matt nuzum on #ubuntu-website
<pips1> hope all works well tomorrow. :-)
<RichEd> excellent :)
<pips1> I'll try to pop in on IRC tomorrow, as soon as i'm done with my work meetings.. but it might be late afternoon
<pips1> See you!!
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Rideh> is there a 8.10 rc1 of edubuntu yet? or is there a pacakge i can apt-get to add edubuntu to the current rc of 8.10?
<sbalneav> Should be able to apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<ogra> and there should be an iso as well
 * ogra didnt test if or how well it works though
<Rideh> yea i was hesitant to see if 8.04 edubuntu addon cd worked with 8.10 :D
<Rideh> but i guess thats what i have VMware for
<Rideh> sbalneav: ty i didnt know what the package name was
<sbalneav> NP
<mbruell> Hello - I'm trying to install an ltsp server using Hardy, but can't select F4 option on the install.
<ogra> mbruell, did you download the right iso ?
<mbruell> I downloaded ubuntu 8.04.1 server iso
<mbruell> ogra - thanks for your reply  - I need to get going. I'll check back tomorrow. Thanks for any help you might have.
<ogra> you need the alternate desktop iso
<ogra> not server
<mbruell> really? Even if I want to use it as an ltsp *server*?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> ltsp needs a desktop running on the server where you can log in to
<ogra> the server iso doent have any desktop apps
<ogra> *doesnt
<mbruell> Right - I've discovered that...;-)
<mbruell> So, I start with the ltsp desktop client, and will be able to select F4 option for ltsp?
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall has a link to the iso ... though yu might probably want to try out 8.10 which will release tomorrow
<ogra> the ltsp there has a bunch of improvements
<mbruell> Okay - maybe I'll try that. I
<ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/20081028/
<mbruell> Cool!
<mbruell> This is great!
<mbruell> do you know about long term support?
<ogra> only for 8.04
<ogra> since ltsp involves desktop packages, its supported for 3 yers
<ogra> *years
<mbruell> That's good
<ogra> 8.10 is using the normal support cycle of 18months for everything
<mbruell> okay - well if it works well, there would be a 9.04 release with long term support, I suppose
<ogra> no, LTS releases are only done in a two year frequency
<ogra> 10.04 would be the next LTS
<mbruell> oh - okay.
<mbruell> excellent!
<mbruell> Thanks for your help.
<ogra> welcome :)
<mbruell> I'm downloading the daily build
<mbruell> Peace
#edubuntu 2008-10-30
<Eeyore-Jr> are there people that program childrens games here?
<Eeyore-Jr> will ltsp build in a virtualbox vm ?
<Rideh> Eeyore-Jr: i'm trying that myself
<Rideh> setting up thindesk example in vm
<Eeyore-Jr> k
<Eeyore-Jr> i need to do some serious setup and testing before doing it on the real thing
<Rideh> i don't yet know if its possible, although I dont really see why not
<ogra> Eeyore-Jr, if you create the vbox with two NICs, one internal and one NAT you can even create a client in a second vm that connects to the internal network of the server vm
<ogra> that how we do a lot of deveolpment and testing in ltsp
<Rideh> ogra: i currently have a setup like that, primary nic is bridged, second is on a team segment all the client guests are then on the team segment with it
<ogra> right
<Rideh> ogra: i do have a question regarding deployment of edubuntu workstation installs
<ogra> make sure tonot have a soundcard configured on the server, then you even can test the client sound
<Rideh> I've created a more typical server to act as nat,dhcp, nfs (home drive), openldap etc. i then have the client workstations configured as I'd like them.  This is a mock environment and I'd like to test reloading the workstations via PXE.  I do have a pxe / pxe server functioning but right now it just provides netboot leaving the client pxe guest to do a net install which involves a lot of...
<Rideh> ...interaction etc.
<Rideh> I would like to make an image of the properly configured edubuntu workstation and then provide the ability to just write an image to a machine that is new / damaged.
<Rideh> any tips?
<ogra> well, that will require fiddling
<ogra> but you could for example creare an image with clonezilla
<ogra> that should be possible to deploy in such an environemnt
<Rideh> i assume i'd have to delete the /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules and modify the hostnames
<ogra> right
<ogra> but thats scriptable
<Rideh> is there a way i can provide the hostnames in a differnt manner than using a script on the client machine?
<ogra> as i said fiddling :)
<Rideh> yea
<Rideh> i dont mind, i'm just trying to find the best solution
<ogra> you could just deploy then via dhcp
<Rideh> can you explain that?
<ogra> but that indeed requires a big dhcpd.conf
<Rideh> ah so i can do it all from within dchpd3?
<ogra> dhcp3-server allows that you can declare hostnames in the dhcpd.conf
<Rideh> ok i'll read into that i wasnt aware of that
<ogra> and dhclient can use that to seed your hostname ...
<ogra> another option would be to use dnsmasq
<ogra> that uses a single config for dhcp, dns and tftp afaik
<ogra> i have no experience with it though, bu  know many people in #ltsp that use it
<ogra> *but
<Rideh> 1 more question then. for educators ldap is kinda scary. What is the cleanest(simplest) way for them to add / modify entries in openldap?
<Rideh> myphpldapadmin, webmin both seem kinda flaky. someone recommended apache directory
<ogra> huh, i'm an ldap hater myself :)
<Rideh> and i appreciate all of your input
<Rideh> how do you handle it then?
<ogra> best to ask in #ubuntu-server
<ogra> there are some ldap experts
<ogra> i dont touch it :)
<Rideh> yea i've been hanging out in #openldap also
<Rideh> how do you handle users? NIS? or jus tstick to the ltsp?
<Rideh> *just stick
<ogra> up to 100 users i'D rather rsync /etc/passwd and group between the machines than using ldap
<ogra> no, NIS is simply insecure
<ogra> rsync over ssh and multiple ltsp servers would be what i'd use
<Rideh> yea i'm looking at a school looking at implementing edubuntu. they have k-12 and as they move up obviously their requirements change moving from a ltps -> individual workstation type environment I was hoping to give them a nice way to migrate their students all the way through
<ogra> stgraber could likely give you some hints about big setups if he wouldnt be busy with iso tests for the release tomorrow :)
<Rideh> but i suppose that could work too
<Rideh> heheh
<ogra> how many students ?
<Rideh> enrollment right now is about 60 per grade
<ogra> and how many grades ?
<Rideh> 12
<Rideh> so 750ish
<Rideh> although that might increase if enrollment goes up
<ogra> ok, that rather justifies ldap
<Rideh> yea the more i muck with ldap the more i loathe it
<stgraber> is that ltsp ? (sorry just saw ogra's hilight, haven't read the backlog)
<Rideh> stgraber: its going to be a hybrid i think
<ogra> stgraber, mixed setup
<Rideh> it all depends on what the school desides to do
<Rideh> i want to offer a few differnt solutions and help them pick the best for their environment
<stgraber> hmm, ok. Then you won't only need LDAP but also some configuration management system
<Rideh> stgraber: agreed
<Rideh> what do you have in mind?
<Rideh> i believe the lab setups are going to be somewhat easy.. 20-40 machines, 4 labs to start with. first 3 labs will be ltsp, last lab will be workstations.
<Rideh> i'll have another server sitting somewhere to act as fileserver for the homes and ldap server for the whole shebang
<stgraber> do you plan in-classroom installation, in-school or in-schooldistrict ?
<stgraber> as in, where do you plan to put the servers ?
<Rideh> school, 4 labs servers in a centralized locations
<Rideh> *location
<Rideh> although for the the ltsp, i might have each of thier server(s) within the computer lab itself
<Rideh> i'm open to input on how to best approach this
<Rideh> my boss is wanting us to use this project as an opportunity to get the formula together to then present to other environments. So the more flexible / open ended i can make it now will help out in the future
<stgraber> does the school district already has an existing IT infrastructure (novell, microsoft, ...) that you'll need to integrate with ?
<Rideh> Microsoft with AD
<Rideh> currently each classroom has 1 pc for the teachers use that are windows
<stgraber> ok, so you don't need a LDAP server, you need to integrate with the AD
<Rideh> if this lab works out well, we could very well look at replacing their entire infrastructure
<ogra> poor teachers
<ogra> and the kids get sexy linux ?
<ogra> heh
<stgraber> ogra: most of the schools we manage are Novell-based, believe me, I'd like to see some AD :)
<Rideh> yea i've worked with novell in a prior school mixed with appletalk
<Rideh> that sucked
<ogra> stgraber, but leaving the teachers with windows while the students have the advanced tech is mean
<ogra> ;)
<Rideh> well the way this project is starting is they want to see it work.  which means first bit is a single lab
<stgraber> ogra: a school district we half-manage (we do the server side) does the same but they have iTalc on the Windows computers and in the end the teachers spend a good part of their time using Linux, just not theirs :)
<Rideh> we go in, get one lab setup and working they test it out work the kinks out then deploy further labs. once it goes that far hopefully we can look at reworking the whole infrastructure
<ogra> hehe
<stgraber> Rideh: btw, where is that ?
<Rideh> a private school in indianapolis
<Rideh> i cant give away more details :P
<stgraber> oh, do you know inAccess and the one-to-one program then ? :)
<Rideh> um. i'm not familiar with that myself
<Rideh> are you in indy too?
<stgraber> no, but our biggest US customer is in Indiana
<Rideh> oh nice, yea i see the indiana open-source experiment
<Rideh> biggest linux rollout in K-12  history
<Rideh> interesting
<stgraber> yep, I'm working a bit with MCAS (Michigan City), they are doing Linux one-to-one classrooms (Ubuntu based) with desktop computers and may go with some thin clients soon (can't say much more)
<Rideh> sure i understand
<Rideh> where are you based?
<stgraber> Quebec, Canada
<stgraber> We are developping ltsp-cluster and doing infrastructure design/implementation mainly for school districts in Canada and in the US
<Rideh> thats great
<Rideh> so the ltsp cluster, your doing the model of one ltsp server with supplimental client host servers?  or something differnt
<LaserJock> rockstar: around?
<stgraber> ltsp-cluster is load-balanced LTSP, so we have multiple application servers
<stgraber> so when a client boots, it gets its configuration from a central place, then is given an application server
<stgraber> the configuration on the application server is synced, so we can reinstall a server or add one in less than an hour
<Rideh> stgraber: sure, ok i used the wrong terminology.
<stgraber> if a server goes down, it's simply removed from the pool
<Rideh> what happens if the primary server goes down?
<stgraber> we don't have a primary server
<stgraber> the load-balancer, the control center and the boot server can be put on high availability
<stgraber> so we can run two of all of them and switching to the backup one if something breaks
<stgraber> only point of failure at the moment is the authentication/data storage that often we don't manage ourself (using AD/Novell and some SAN (Novell or similar))
<Rideh> gotcha
<stgraber> what happens if ldap or the SAN goes down is switching all the clients to autologin mode
<stgraber> so they don't have their user session but can still surf the internet and use the thin client as normal
<Rideh> that is definatly not a built in configuration out of the box ;)
<stgraber> well, we have a demonstration server that has everything setup in one box, of course load balancing and high availability don't quite work in that case :)
<Rideh> how do you make the boot server high avail?
<ogra> wait a while, it might become one :)
<stgraber> but the box can handle 40-50 thin clients
<stgraber> we have two boxes running: DHCP, TFTP and NBD (well, NFS at the moment but we are moving to NBD)
<stgraber> we let DHCP handle the sync for the DHCP part (it does that quite well) and for the other services we either simply rsync or using drbd (we try to avoid that :))
<Rideh> in that environment can a teacher still control all the pc's in a particular lab and view the desktops and all even if its initially off a differnt boot server (i'm assuming yes because once it goes to a session server its the same as anything else)
<stgraber> yes
<ogra> italc doesnt care about the server
<Rideh> how does italc know what machines are within its control?
<stgraber> the control center tracks who is connected where, the teacher can then start iTalc, it'll retrieve the list of all computers in the classroom and let the teacher control them
<ogra> avahi ... IPs
<Rideh> and it can run from any client as long as the user has proper permissions?
<stgraber> ogra: nope, we don't use avahi for big deployments. We just interogate our servers :)
<stgraber> Rideh: yes
<ogra> ah
<Rideh> this is really good info thanks btw
<stgraber> ogra: avahi doesn't work well in all cases as it uses broadcast. works well for small setup though
<ogra> yeah, i can imagine
<Rideh> so how do you move control center to its own machine?
<Rideh> and what services is it actually providing?
<stgraber> our control center tracks all the thin clients, it knows when they are booting and when a session is opened (and who's connected on it). It also provides an easy way of creating custom lts.conf for thin clients
<Rideh> is this a proprietary piece of software you've created?
<stgraber> so you can set part of your network as autologin, another part as RDP on a Windows terminal server and another as standard thin clients
<stgraber> Rideh: nope, all is opensource
<Rideh> well i guess i should get cracking on my thinclient setup so i can start learning all of this first hand
<Rideh> i just my workstation model almost done.   its a lot to absorb
<stgraber> (of course my company sells support for that, providing custom developments, setting up the network, teaching the sysadmins and doing the major upgrades)
<stgraber> our current development focus is on local applications, we now have skype, firefox, blender and some other multimedia sofwares running as local applications on powerful thin clients
<stgraber> and we are also developping NX access to the servers
<stgraber> so a student gets access to the same environment when he's back at home
<stgraber> (connecting to the same application servers and using the same load balanced setup)
<Rideh> nice, if you dont mind i'd like to get your contact information
<LaserJock> ogra: hi
<Rideh> this project might at some point get out of scope for me and i'll need to bring in big guns
<ogra> LaserJock, hey
<LaserJock> ogra: how's it going?
<ogra> massively tired
<LaserJock> I bet
<ogra> but i still have one umpc image test ahead
<ogra> LaserJock, and you ?
<LaserJock> ogra: tired, busy, the usual
<ogra> yeah
<Rideh> Thanks Ogra & stgraber   i'm heading out for the night
<stgraber> np, see you
<ogra> ciao
<Eeyore-Jr> k, last set of questions.  does ltsp allow pluggin in usb devices, use of zip drives, floppy drives, etc.
<stgraber> usb devices yes (mass storage, printer and scanner (soon)), zip I think so but never tried, floppy I haven't tested for a while but it should too
<Eeyore-Jr> neat, scanner support is a good thing for me.  is there a way to "network" a printer from a thin client?
<Eeyore-Jr> my space is limited
<Eeyore-Jr> printer attached to a thin client
<stgraber> yes, we have jetpipe for that
 * Eeyore-Jr will be glad when week is done
 * ogra too 
<Eeyore-Jr> are linksys switches better or hp ?
<Eeyore-Jr> i was talking to someone using opengeu.  it appears i can sudo aptitude that desktop.  i assume this will work for ltsp.  e is much light weight for a desktop and may help me use "older" machines
<Eeyore-Jr> wow, xubuntu alternate just crashed in the vbox vm
<Eeyore-Jr> won't install
<Eeyore-Jr> can we run skype?
<komp15> hi all
<komp15> i'm from indonesia
<komp15> use edubutu since 2006th
<highvoltage> hu RichEd- and ogra
<highvoltage> hi, even
<ogra> ho
<ogra> he ?
<highvoltage> ha
<highvoltage> anything that needs to be done for edubuntu regarding release anouncement?
<highvoltage> there's no panic anywhere, so I just assume everything is under control :)
 * ogra didnt do anything this cycle with edubuntu
<ogra> so i cant say much
<ogra> but since there is a CD it would likely be good to have some kind of referrer to it ... though the contents of such a message lie in RichEd-'s hands
<highvoltage> ok, so if someone asks, there's basically an updated version of the edu stuff on the add-on cd?
<ogra> i know Nubae is actively doing stuff on the download page atm
<RichEd-> hi highvoltage ...
<highvoltage> ok cool
<ogra> right, though i dont know what LaserJock changed wrt CD content
<ogra> he cared for seeds and metapackages
<RichEd-> we'll just refer to the general Ubuntu release ... can you just draft a little news link for 8.10 and point to the main release ?
<RichEd-> ogra: regarding the [1] CD iso and location and [2] how to install (i.e. start with Ubuntu) ... can you send me the rough text info ?
<ogra> err, its the same as the releases before ?
<ogra> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyClassromServer
<ogra> err
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyClassroomServer
<ogra> for workstation you just leave out the ltsp bits
<RichEd-> email or /msg
<RichEd-> i'll format it neatly for www.ubuntu.com and highvoltage can take my text and duplicate it on edubuntu.org
<highvoltage> or Nubae even
<ogra> right, just take that text
<stgraber> hey RichEd-
<ogra> i have to care for two other announcements for mobile
<stgraber> only changes from my side is better, more stable and avahi-aware iTalc
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning uncle scott
<Nubae> RichEd: u there?
 * RichEd waves to Nubae from the Bottom of Africa
<Nubae> hi RichEd :-) I've prepared the main download page for 8.10, are the release notes available yet?
<Nubae> there's also a bit of confusion on the older hardy page, which shows hardy being supported for 18 months (which ogra explained to me is due to the addon-cd component) Further down, though there is still a link for dapper drake (supported till 2009)
<Nubae> So either dapper isn't really supported (edubuntu that is) anymore, or we have to say hardy is supported until 2011
<Nubae> whacha think?
<ogra> dapper edubuntu *was* LTS
<ogra> hardy wasnt
<Nubae> oh
<Nubae> that causes a bit of weirdness then, because on the new download page, I have dapper as a supported previous LTS, but not 8.04
<ogra> well, you could probably drop dapper and just ignore it for its last 6 months
<Nubae> and not mention 8.04 either?
<ogra> mention 8.04 indeed
<Nubae> ok, cool thanks
<RichEd> Nubae: the release notes will point to Ubuntu release notes ...
<Nubae> ah ok
<Nubae> RichEd: how about the release notes on the top of the main page and the get your 8.04.1 here?
<pips1> Nubae: thanks again for helping out... sorry I don't have time. :-( I now need to go to collect my son from day care... all the best, cu!
<pips1> RichEd: good luck with getting everything out the door!
<Nubae> pips1: no problem, just one quick question
<pips1> Have a nice release day!! :-)
<pips1> shoot
<Nubae> release anouncement on top, is a graphic
<pips1> yes
<Nubae> should I make a new one?
<pips1> I created a new one, but unfortunately, it won't show... I'm at a loss of why it doesn't show. :-/
<Nubae> so u edited top banner?
<pips1> also, I have migrated to a new laptop and I forgot to take my gpg personal key with me.. the consequence is now that I can't logon to the server via ssh to check the filesystem permissions for that image
<Nubae> banner-right-release.jpg - thats the image? did u just overwrite it or put in a new link?
<Nubae> ahh
<Nubae> can u upload with a different name?
<Nubae> and we can link to that insteaed?
<pips1> no, I uploaded a new image to a "dummy" node and tried linking to that one instead but no go
<Nubae> well, dont worry I'll do my best to get it working
<RichEd> pips1: thanks
<RichEd> Nubae: I'm back ...
<Nubae> RichEd: ok cool...
<pips1> good luck guys, got to run..
<Nubae> right edubuntu site updated... hope it's ok...
<RichEd> Nubae: thanks ... I've just fnished the www.ubuntu,com pages
<Nubae> wasnt too much to do on edubuntu.org :-)
<RichEd> https://www.ubuntu.com/education
<RichEd> see what you think
 * RichEd has to go offline now ... will try to pop back in later
<Nubae> bye RichEd
<Mip5> Hi folks - I just installed ltsp on a server
<Mip5> and booted my first client - it appeared to work, but hang with a blinking cursor in the uppper left hand corner of the screen
<Nubae> sounds like a graphics problem on the client, what graphics card u using?
<Mip5> tail -f /var/log/syslog shows:
<Mip5> Oct 30 12:04:22 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:17:31:cb:0b:92 via eth1
<Mip5> Oct 30 12:04:23 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.0.250 to 00:17:31:cb:0b:92 via eth1
<Mip5> Oct 30 12:04:24 unionltsp dhcpd: Wrote 1 leases to leases file.
<Mip5> Oct 30 12:04:24 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.0.250 (192.168.0.254) from 00:17:31:cb:0b:92 via eth1
<Mip5> Oct 30 12:04:24 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.0.250 to 00:17:31:cb:0b:92 via eth1
<Mip5> Oct 30 12:04:25 unionltsp in.tftpd[15942]: tftp: client does not accept options
<Mip5> It's actually a pretty decent machine - boots the live cd fine, and runs ubuntu hardy (fine) when not testing the pxe boot offered by ltsp - let me check on the graphics card
<Lns> Mip5: you need to look at the xorg logs on the TC
<Eeyore-Jr> should i be running in 64bit mode for ltsp server ?
<Lns> Mip5: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
<LaserJock> so it looks like maybe we should get a discussion on edubuntu.org going (epic FAIL on my part as I didn't send out an email)
<Lns> Eeyore-Jr: you can, there are some issues with running Adobe Flash and a couple other things though
<Eeyore-Jr> Nubae: i downloaded your script for fat clients, but was unsure how to tell the server which client was fat?  i assume by mac address, what file needs to be modified for this?
<Nubae> take a look at the entry in wiki.nubae.com
<Eeyore-Jr> Lns, guess i'll stick to 32 bit mode then
<Nubae> oops, www.nubae.com
<LaserJock> Nubae and Lns: you going to make the IRC meeting next week?
<Nubae> LaserJock: I guess so
<Eeyore-Jr> i'd like to make the meeting, however, i'll be on vacation :)
<Lns> LaserJock: it's in my sunbird, yes =)
<LaserJock> Nubae: I noticed you at least got us somewhat updated for 8.10, thanks
<Nubae> heh, Im working on it still, but yeah the release notes and download pages have been updated
<LaserJock> the new download page I was shooting for didn't land so we're apparently on our own there
<Nubae> new download page?
<LaserJock> Nubae: I was working on getting us an ubuntu.com style download page
<Nubae> oh yeah that would be nice...
<LaserJock> for Jaunty I guess
<LaserJock> or maybe we can get it set up for Intrepid later on
<Eeyore-Jr>        host fatclient1 {
<Eeyore-Jr>                 hardware ethernet  the:thin:client:mac:add:ress;
<Eeyore-Jr>                 fixed-address 192.168.0.2;
<Eeyore-Jr>                 }
<LaserJock> but the current download page really needs to go
<LaserJock> it's just way too much info to throw at people
<Eeyore-Jr> so, i'd assume that putting the mac address into the "thin client mac address" will make it a fat client
<Nubae> Eeyore-Jr: right
<Eeyore-Jr> thx.  now i just need the last piece of the puzzle to make it all work
<Eeyore-Jr> which is stgraber's conf
<Nubae> LaserJock: we discuss that at the irc meeting or do u think I should edit that now?
<LaserJock> well, it might need some discussion
<Nubae> k
<rockstar> LaserJock, you were looking for me last night?
<Mip5> Forgive me - I'm not sure how to post this continuation to the previous thread about the graphics card on my thin client. It's an ASUS M2NPV-VM  mobo - nVidiaâs GeForce 6150
<LaserJock> rockstar: yeah, just wanted to say hi really
<rockstar> LaserJock, oh, hi.  :)
<LaserJock> rockstar: noticed you joined edubuntu-bugsquad and via identi.ca noticed you're wanting to get involved with MOTU some
<rockstar> LaserJock, yeah, my mom thought it would be a good idea to schedule a meeting with my former superintendent about using open source stuff.  I got an email about it last night.
<rockstar> So I guess I'm meeting with him, thought it was as good a time as any to take another swing at MOTU.
<LaserJock> excellent
<rockstar> Unfortunately, I've been in London the last two weeks, so I'm constantly tired, and rather busy during the day.
<rockstar> The good news is that I don't really need to learn to use Launchpad...
<LaserJock> if you need anything let me know, I've been a MOTU for a while now and know a few tricks of the trade ;-)
<Mip5> LNS - I'll follow the link and take a look at the logs and see what I see. Thanks for the help!
<Lns> Mip5: no prob. =)
<Eeyore-Jr> Mip5: i'm having the same problem with the same mobo graphics chip
<Mip5> LNS - there's still no login prompt. Machine is still hanging. BTW - Should nbd-server be running (I would think so, but it appears not to be). Also, there's no config in /etc/nbd-server/
<Nubae> did u get ltsp-server-standalone or ltsp-server?
<Mip5> ltsp-server - I think.
<Mip5> I booted from the alternate cd, hit F4 and selected ltsp server
* ogra changed the topic of #edubuntu to: LTSP Triage Day: Sept. 17th, see http://tinyurl.com/55pfcj || Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | 8.10 (intrepid ibex) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
<ogra> Nubae, when was the meeting ?
<Nubae> let me double check
<ogra> hmm. the ltsp triage day can go as well i guess
<ogra> pfft, feel free :)
<LaserJock> ogra: the meeting is the 5th at 18:00 UTC
<Mip5> Well - I still can't log into the TC, would the logs in the chrooted environment be useful?
<Mip5> Selecting previously deselected package base-files.
<Mip5> (Reading database ... 0 files and directories currently installed.)
<Mip5> Unpacking base-files (from .../base-files_4.0.1ubuntu5.8.04.2_i386.deb) ...
<Mip5> Selecting previously deselected package base-passwd.
<Mip5> Unpacking base-passwd (from .../base-passwd_3.5.16_i386.deb) ...
<Mip5> dpkg: base-passwd: dependency problems, but configuring anyway as you request:
<Mip5>  base-passwd depends on libc6 (>= 2.6.1-1); however:
<ogra> Mip5, what kind of machine is the server =
<Mip5>   Package libc6 is not installed.
<ogra> ?
<Mip5> It's a dual cpu xeon (3.0 Ghz) w/ 4gb ram. I've run the install using RAID 1 on scsi disks
<ogra> (you should use update-manager for such stuff, it sets the necessary switches if any are needed)
<Mip5> That is how I updated it
<ogra> libc6 is definately installed, is that an upgraded machine ?
<ogra> or a fresh install
<Mip5> Fresh install as of this morning - 8.04.1 alternate - F4 ltsp option
<ogra> ah, i thought intrepid (it released today)
<ogra> was wondering about the old libc6 version :)
<Mip5> Sorry - I wanted to go for the long term support -
<ogra> that looks like you might not have all security updates there yet
<Mip5> Strange - I thought I got all the updates after the install - let me look again
<ogra> but anyway, for your graphics card prob, create /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<ogra> add the following two lines:
<ogra> [default]
<ogra> XSERVER=vesa
<ogra> and see if that gets you to the graphical login
* Nubae changed the topic of #edubuntu to: ï»¿Edubuntu IRC Meeting: Nov. 5th, 18.00 UTC || Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | 8.10 (intrepid ibex) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
<Mip5> looking at the messages as they scroll by, the machine stops with eth0 down - though the link light is on and blinking
<Mip5> So - the TC client messages stop at eth0 link down - I'm not sure why that's happening during the bootup pocess.
<Nubae>  The first Enterprise release is Edubuntu 6.06, due for launch in June. <--- lol
<Mip5> a little while back - I said that I had run the updates - I got the message to do from the desktop after the install. I just looked at my sources.list and saw that only the cd was enabled (the install didn't prompt me for it)
<Nubae> disable the cd and enable universe, and multiverse
<Nubae> then apt-get update and upgrade and see if that makes a difference
<Mip5> cool - I wasn't sure which sources were the best. I'll do that.
<Nubae> LaserJock: u still there?
<Mip5> are these the only ones I need then:
<Mip5> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-security main
<Mip5> deb http://ubuntu.osuosl.org/ubuntu/ hardy universe multiverse
<Nubae> you need main, universe and multiverse in both hardy and hardy-security, and hardy-updates and hardy-backports wouldn't be bad either
<Mip5> Sorry - I'm really a dope! I was looking at the chrooted sources.list, not the real ones. The real ones were in there.
<Mip5> All of those are in there (except backports), and running aptitude and then update shows no new updates. I'll add the backports.
<ogra> try the Software preferences from the menu instead of hacking around in your sources.list
<ogra> its just some checkboxes ... no need to care for more
<Mip5> Good idea - I'll do that.
<ogra> it makes sense to copy your sources.list over if its proper on the server sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list
<ogra> then run sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update
<Nubae> yeah bad habits die hard... I think I'm still scared of the update manager
<ogra> right, but if you have an empty sources.list thats the eaiest way to recover the entries ;)
<Nubae> don't u think there should be an edubuntu.org page with a download of the logo and other artwork?
<ogra> i think thats on the ubuntu wiki already
<ogra> "do your own marketing" or some such
<Nubae> is wiki.edubuntu.org linked to wiki.ubuntu.org somehow?
<Nubae> ah it is... never mind
<ogra> its the same wiki
<Nubae> one last question... since ltsp-server in 8.04 is in the base, its supported for 36 months?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> ltsp != edubuntu :)
<Nubae> ok
<ogra> thats the main reason it was moved to the ubuntu CD
<ogra> to show its support state
<Nubae> but is classroom server edubuntu? :p
<ogra> the edubuntu apps are, yes
<ogra> the ubuntu below no
<Nubae> ok, think I've reflected it correctly now, basically added explanation of which parts are supported for how long
<Mip5> Sorry gang - I've (sadly) been pulled away from this task by downed network in another building. I'll have to get to back to this tomorrow
<ogra> we're here
<Mip5> I did cp the sources.list from the good copy to the chrooted environment, and am updating it inside that environment
<Trailbrain> I'm trying to upgrade to 8.10....  It doesn't find the right files on the update manager....  What do I need to do?
<Trailbrain> Does the 8.10 update apply to edubuntu?
<Nubae> Trailbrain: yes
<Nubae> although most files will be the ubuntu base, with the educational parts being edubuntu
<Trailbrain> Ok, then how come it's not finding the updates?
<Trailbrain> Am I broken?
<Trailbrain> sys-admin-update manager
<Nubae> you've gotu did a dist-upgrade?
<Trailbrain> Doesn't update manager work on this sort of thing?  I'm downloading the ISO, but would rather not have to burn another disk
<Nubae> I'm not too familiar with the guis, I upgraded from the command line
<Trailbrain> That's cool--how?
<Nubae> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<Trailbrain> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<Trailbrain> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<Trailbrain> ummmm......
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/IntrepidUpgrades
<ogra> have you read that ?
<ogra> *DONT* use dist-upgrade
<Nubae> oh :-)
<Trailbrain> Nope.  My google searches don't usually find me the right stuff--so I come here where the smart people are
<ogra> its untested and very likely to break ...
<Nubae> heh, worked for me though
<Nubae> :p
<ogra> Nubae, right and you keep all the old cruft
<ogra> really, use update-manager .... its the only path that gets tested
<Nubae> ogra: I see u did the screenies for classroomserver howto... we need to update those to intrepid screenies...
<Nubae> want me to do it?
<ogra> did that change so much ?
<Trailbrain> Yahoo!   It worked
<Trailbrain> Downloading--thanks!
 * ogra doesnt use the default theme since a while anymore
<Trailbrain> See this is where the smart people are
<ogra> apart from the wallpaper it shouldnt make much difference
<ogra> but if you feel like, replace them :)
<Nubae> true, was just for accuracy sake
 * HedgeMage peeks in
<HedgeMage> I'm amazed at how few people are downloading from the ubuntu torrent right now... the xubuntu one is *busy*
<Nubae> xubuntu users are smarter
<Nubae> they know torrents exist
<Nubae> :p
<HedgeMage> lol
<HedgeMage> It took me less than 10 minutes to download the xubuntu ISO... the ubuntu one is going on 45 minutes.
<HedgeMage> For a long while, I was the only one on the ubuntu torrent... now it's up to all of 7 peers
<Nubae> ah I'll join in then... 7 is allright :p
<HedgeMage> heh
<HedgeMage> just me was kind of pathetic -- I was downloading so slowly because I wasn't uploading, but there was no one to upload to!
<HedgeMage> Nubae: I do think the torrent option should be more prominent on the download page -- I'm willing to bet that few people notice it.
<Nubae> yeah agree
<Mip5> The updates are trickling in....
<Mip5> I'll rebuild the client after the updates continue.
<Nubae> 50 connects now for alternate server via torrents
<HedgeMage> Nubae: nice.
<Nubae> yeah and now the edubuntu site is totally down... how am I supposed to edit pages like this?
<LaserJock> Nubae: I'm here now
<LaserJock> Nubae: I had a lab to teach
<HedgeMage> Nubae: I'm still seeding ubuntu and xubuntu desktop since I finished, and ubuntu only has about 17, still better than earlier.  Xubuntu has more.
<Nubae> yeah alternate ubuntu has 50
<Nubae> so it has to do with smarter ubuntu users knowing torrents exist
<HedgeMage> heh
<LaserJock> Nubae: did you make any changes to the download page?
<Nubae> yeah, changed so that it would be in line with 8.10, but Im working on getting started
<Nubae> that was set to 6.06 still
<LaserJock> Nubae: ok, so I think we need to really shorten the download page
<Nubae> LaserJock: I cant remember what I wanted to ask... oh yeah, at this meeting, I saw there was a mention of sugar being discussed... perhaps sugar on ltsp should also be discussed
<LaserJock> and just deal with 8.04 and 8.10
<LaserJock> yeah, we can talk about that
<Nubae> Sugar on LTSP and Fat Client LTSP
<LaserJock> Nubae: we need like a site map for edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> so we can look at what pages we have, prioritize them, and figure out what needs to get updated, etc.
<Nubae> yeah, its difficult to see from the main page what exists
<Nubae> but there are indeed links going everywhere
<LaserJock> yeah, we need to stop that :-)
<LaserJock> I think if we had a system to deal with versions
<Nubae> yep, but the way its being done on upgrade is to make new pages, and then change the old alias url nodes to the new pages
<Nubae> so we need to clean house I guess
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> we need to also figure out the naming scheme
<Nubae> heh, u mean the edubuntu vs ubuntu educational thing?
<LaserJock> it's really bugging me that we have Edubuntu, Ubuntu Education, Educational Addon, Classroom Server, Ubuntu, etc.
<LaserJock> it's *got* to be confusing to people just wanting to check it out
<LaserJock> like on news/8.10-release
<Nubae> it is
<Nubae> I couldn't figure it out even while I was editting
<LaserJock> there is "Ubuntu Education Edition 8.10 Released" then "About Ubuntu Education Edition" which basically says it's Edubuntu
<LaserJock> then "About Edubuntu"
<Nubae> either its Edubuntu or Ubuntu Education...
<Nubae> ah there is also ubuntu.com/Education :-)
<LaserJock> so I have to scroll an entire page just to get at "Get Ubuntu Education Edition"
<LaserJock> but by that time I dont' know if I want Edubuntu or Ubuntu Education Edition or ...
<Nubae> yeah totally with you
<LaserJock> Nubae: not only that, on ubuntu.com/Education "Edubuntu" is not mentioned anywhere
<LaserJock> but on the sidebar there is both "Edubuntu" and "Education"
<Nubae> ok, so we get rid of edubuntu completely as a name?
<LaserJock> I don't know, but we need to just pick one and move on
<Nubae> the problem then is we have the edubuntu users and edubuntu developers and #edubuntu
<LaserJock> well, not only that
<LaserJock> we have edubuntu packages, and "Ubuntu Education Edition" is rather long to put in logo's etc.
<LaserJock> we could call it UEE I guess
<Nubae> hmmm indeed... and the logo
<LaserJock> or ubuntu-ee
<Nubae> to be honest, I dont really see the problem with edubuntu
<Nubae> is there a reason for the re-branding?
<LaserJock> well, sort of
<LaserJock> I don't want to get into all of it
<LaserJock> but Canonical wanted to create an Education brand that included not just Edubuntu
<Nubae> hmmm I thought edubuntu was the education brand
<LaserJock> the idea was that a school could be using plain Ubuntu on it's teacher desktops, Ubuntu Server on their mail/webserver and Ubuntu Education Edition for LTSP and teaching
<LaserJock> but bottom line, you're using "Ubuntu", which is good for marketing
<LaserJock> so my understanding of it was that "Ubuntu Education" was using Ubuntu in Education period
<LaserJock> and Edubuntu was supposed to be a specific "product"
<LaserJock> but it's really not clear to me
<Nubae> ok gotcha, then edubuntu is the classroom server?
<Nubae> or the addon cd?
<Nubae> or both?
<LaserJock> umm, good question
<LaserJock> I don't know that anybody exactly knows
<LaserJock> LTSP is on the Ubuntu disk
<LaserJock> Edubuntu only produces the Addon CD
<Nubae> well, maybe its just about making a decision
<Nubae> well classroom server is like addon-cd + ubuntu alternate cd
<LaserJock> so right now it's the "Ubuntu Education Edition Educational Addon CD produced by Edubuntu"
<LaserJock> which is as confusing as can be to me
<Nubae> maybe the addoncd should just be that...
<Nubae> si then we have ubuntu educational add on cd
<Nubae> but then edubuntu has to go
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure why the addon CD just can't be either "Edubuntu" or "Ubuntu Education Edition"
<LaserJock> I guess it's a holdover from when we had 2 CDs
<Nubae> well ubuntu education edition is also classroom server, or not?
<LaserJock> not sure exactly
<LaserJock> here's how I think of it:
<Nubae> I guess classroom server is easy to get rid off
<Nubae> thats only used on 2 or 3 pages
<Nubae> no logo
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Desktop + Addon CD = Edubuntu
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Alternate + Addon CD = Edubuntu Classroom Server
<Nubae> except we call it LTSP Classroom server now
<LaserJock> well
<Nubae> but what u say makes sense
<LaserJock> I would separate out LTSP from Classroom Server
<LaserJock> but either way
<Nubae> or seperate edubuntu from both and get rid of it
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> getting rid of Edubuntu completely is complicated
<LaserJock> *everything* is wrapped around "edubuntu"
<LaserJock> not that we can't rename, it's just quite a bit of work
<LaserJock> and it is an existing "brand"
<Nubae> I see that, but right now the users are probably totally confused and its hurting more than helping
<LaserJock> here's how I guess I would've handled the "marketing" if we want to keep both
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Desktop + Edubuntu = Ubuntu Education Edition
<LaserJock> Ubuntu Alternate + Edubuntu = LTSP Classroom Server
<LaserJock> so we get rid of the "Educational Addon" bit
<Nubae> ok, and edubuntu really refers to the add-on cd then
<LaserJock> yeah
<Nubae> ok thats good
<Nubae> but that needs to be well defined
<LaserJock> so the Edubuntu project really produces 1) contents of "Edubuntu" CD and 2) LTSP for Alternate CD
<Nubae> so edubuntu project =! edubuntu =! ubuntu educational...
<LaserJock> the one thing I don't like about it is that "Edubuntu" then becomes not a self-contained OS
<LaserJock> right, that's the problem, IMO
<LaserJock> I want 1 project, 1 product, 1 community
<LaserJock> but I don't know how we do that with the current mix of branding
<Nubae> its no longer a self contained os though, the split off from the cd was a mistake in my opinion from marketing/community, but made sense on a practical/support part
<LaserJock> and being and addon CD
<LaserJock> well, we could kinda be sneaky about it
<Nubae> also the community seems split into 2 now, with most having migrated to #ltsp
<LaserJock> on the download page would could link to the Ubuntu CD but call it like Edubuntu Base or something
<LaserJock> though I doubt that would work out well because of the branding on the CD itself
<Nubae> well, the addon-cd is not available unless u download it
<LaserJock> what I was thinking is that you'd have 2 links
<LaserJock> 1 would be "Edubuntu Base" which would just be the Ubuntu CD
<LaserJock> and then the other would be the addon CD
<Nubae> I like that, makes sense
<LaserJock> or, what my original plan was to call it "Ubuntu" but have a *short* explanation
<Nubae> I think u'll confuse less people calling it edubuntu with an explanation in brackets
<Nubae> edubuntu (the ubuntu base)
<Nubae> not accurate, but makes sense in context
<LaserJock> "Edubuntu is built off of a base of Ubuntu. This allows us to deliver more educational software, but means you must first have an Ubuntu installation. For your convenience we have links to both CDs below."
<Nubae> yeah nice
<LaserJock> to me I think ^^ would work
<LaserJock> we don't need to assume people are idiots, but we do need to explain in clear and concise language
<Nubae> yep, looks good
#edubuntu 2008-10-31
<Trailbrain> Ok I'm downloading the upgrade off of system update.  It says it's going to take like a day.  I've also downloaded the ISO file and have 8.10 on a CD.  Can I upgrade from the CD
<HedgeMage> Trailbrain: yes, but you need the Ubuntu CD and the Edubuntu add-on CD
<HedgeMage> you can't do it with just the edu addons
<Trailbrain> Is there a how-to online somewhere?
<HedgeMage> I have no idea, but it's just a couple of steps...
<HedgeMage> Put in the Ubuntu 8.10 CD and add it to your apt sources, then do the same with the edu addon CD
<HedgeMage> Now click the upgrade button and it will prefer the local sources to the remote ones
<HedgeMage> it may make you switch between the two CDs once or twice
<Trailbrain> how do I add it to apt sources?
<HedgeMage> ummm... let me look up the gui method... I'm old school, I do all this from the command line :)
<HedgeMage> Trailbrain: From Synaptic choose Edit -> Add CDROM
<Trailbrain> I can command line --- cut and paste--I mean
<HedgeMage> Trailbrain: note that the disc must be in the drive before you do that so synaptic can find it :)
<HedgeMage> Trailbrain: in the command line, you edit the /etc/apt/sources.list file, but the gui is probably easier for you :)
<Trailbrain> brb
<generalsnus> ok, so i have installed edubuntu 8.10 in vmware, with 2 nic's   1 for thinclients and 1 for internet   ... the thinclients work ok, but i am not getting any internet connection. ifconfig tells me that i have IP 192.168.0.254 on both nic's , how can i change one to dhcp? in the network manager it only says "ifupdown"
<sbalneav> generalsnus: Should be able to change it in System->Administration->Network
<Eeyore-Jr> does edubuntu allow fine control over network services?  printing, chat, internet, etc or must that be done elsewhere?
<Eeyore-Jr> hrm, i'd forgotten yesterday was release day
<sbalneav> Define "fine control".  Certainly you can start/stop individual services, or block access to them from the network via iptables, or the like.
<sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: Can you be a bit more specific?
<Eeyore-Jr> per user
<Eeyore-Jr> for example, i want joe to use chat, as he uses it for info on technical questions, but don't want mary or george, because they use it to gossip
<sbalneav> Several ways you could accomplish that.
<sbalneav> Either through access to the chat program through group permissions
<sbalneav> or with some kind of authenticating proxy.
<sbalneav> This at a school, or a business?
<Eeyore-Jr> business, but will have kids coming in after school
<Eeyore-Jr> it's a community lab
<Eeyore-Jr> built for use by the community with all free software
<Eeyore-Jr> it's really a starting ground for some usablity testing and idea testing
<sbalneav> There's multiple different ways to accomplish it.
<sbalneav> GIYF
<Eeyore-Jr> giyf?
 * Eeyore-Jr googles giyf
<Eeyore-Jr> bleh
<sbalneav> Google is your friend
<Eeyore-Jr> google is like a friend with ADHD
<Eeyore-Jr> up speed for *untu torrents today about 8 KB/s, for edubuntu add-on 0 KB/s :(
<sbalneav> I downloaded the final intrepid CD last night in about 20 minutes.
<sbalneav> My speed was great
<RickZilla> I just upgraded my ubuntu distro to 8.10, but I also have edubuntu 8.04...did my recent upgrade automatically update edubuntu to 8.10, or should I do that manually?
<HedgeMage> RickZilla: how did you upgrade... using the button in the update manager?
<RickZilla> HedgeMage:  Yes...I got my answer over in the ubuntu channel...turns out edubuntu upgrades simultaneously
<HedgeMage> yep, that's what I was about to tell you
<HedgeMage> Happy Halloween!
 * HedgeMage waves and departs
<Eeyore-Jr> how does ltsp comply with CIPA
<Eeyore-Jr> or specifically edubuntu
<Lns> Eeyore-Jr: see #ltsp reply..ltsp/edubuntu has nothing to do with complying to content filtering standards
<Eeyore-Jr> edubuntu is "education" or geared to that, so i would have expected it to address those type of issues i guess
<Lns> Eeyore-Jr: there are plenty of external applications to take care of this that aren't part of the edubuntu project (which is basically a subset of desktop applications and themes that sit on top of ubuntu)
<Lns> I guess it wouldn't be out of the question to bring some "recommended" content filtering system into edubuntu, but that's really not the focus of the project
#edubuntu 2008-11-01
<Nubae> http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/edubuntu <--- that is pretty misleading... it says u can get free edubuntu cds, which is not true...
<wiehan> What age groups are edubuntu best suited for?
<Ahmuck> xubuntu ltsp installation client ltsp build failed.  i recall seeing something on Nubae's page about rebuilding the client portion.
<Ahmuck> essentially i need to re-build the chroot portion of the client on the server, but don't quite know how
<ogra> Ahmuck, is that the final image you are using ?
<ogra> (intrepid)
<Nubae> Ahmuck: what are u trying to do?
<Ahmuck> i used xubuntu alternate cd, and the ltsp client chroot build failed
<Ahmuck> so i went on without it and thought i'd come back later and "rebuild" the compressed client image
<Ahmuck> i think i'm understanding that right
<ogra> right, you can just use ltsp-build-cient ...
<ogra> did you use intrepid or hardy ?
<ogra> in intrepid it should definately work
<ogra> hardy was fixed in the pointrelease shortly after 8.04
<ogra> i.e. 8.04.1
<Ahmuck> intrepid
<Ahmuck> the latest download
<ogra> hmm, that should work, gave me a lot grief to add the fixes the xubuntu guys wanted (which broke a lot in ubuntu) ... nobody reported any probs during release testing with xubuntu
 * Ahmuck wonders if anybody tested during release testing
<Ahmuck> i'm doing it a virutalbox 2.0.4.x vm
<ogra> well, apparently notif you see breakage still
<ogra> would be good to file a bug though and attach the ltsp build log
<ogra> shoudl be somewhere under /var/log
<Ahmuck> it just occorred to me that i could run the ltsp server within a vm on a server, provided the server had the power to do the other things well
<ogra> yep
<Eeyore-Jr> i think i'm going to see if i can't get people to do usablity testing studies, 2 cameras and a screenie of what's going on
<Eeyore-Jr> how often does one have to "rebuild" the client portion?  never?
<ogra> only if you install any upgardes or security fixex
<ogra> many people dont do that though
<PerSeL> yo
<PerSeL> I hope i'm in the right channel
<PerSeL> just installed ubuntu
<PerSeL> and everything looks great so far
<PerSeL> but need some help if possible
<highvoltage> and it is!
<PerSeL> well i could find most of things in help-support but I couldn't figure out how do i type in other language even though i installed it, u know like alt shift in windows
<Eeyore-Jr> your looking for scim
<Eeyore-Jr> PerSeL: ur wanting scim
<PerSeL> scim?
<PerSeL> hmmm i  just want to know how do i type in other lang
<Eeyore-Jr> set up scim
<Eeyore-Jr> then you have a set of keys that you can use to switch between languages
<PerSeL> ohhh thanks
<PerSeL> i'm nub with linux
<PerSeL> but i will learn fast
<PerSeL> thnx
<Eeyore-Jr> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SCIM
<ogra> its in your settings menu
<PerSeL> well i add all lang in the system menu but couldn't switch to type in other lang
<Ahmuck> k, second install, same thing "failed to build ltsp build chroot for client
<Ahmuck> on xubuntu and virtualbox vm 2.0.4.x
<Ahmuck> is there a way to keep ubuntu, kubuntu, and xubuntu menus from mixing in a ltsp installation?
<zzaza> hi all
<Nubae> Ahmuck: can u check /usr/share/ltsp/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/000-basic-configuration
<Nubae> and see if universe and mutiverse are in there
#edubuntu 2008-11-02
<Ahmuck> it's there now.  however i've done a "sudo aptitude update" "sudo aptitude safe-upgrade" and then a "sudo ltsp-build-client" since the install
<Ahmuck> i have noticed that when i do a ltsp-build-client it downloads a large number of new packages
<Ahmuck> hrm, when ltsp client fails, it also fails to configure the second nic for serving dhcp ltsp clients
<Ahmuck> i'm falling back to ubuntu
<Ahmuck> i was under the impression that ltsp-server, client, etc. configured that
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck> hi sbalneav
<Rideh> heya
<stgraber> hi Rideh
<Rideh> hey stgraber !
<Rideh> i'll be back in a few minutes
<davidgroos> Hi--anyone have any opinions about good edubuntu classroom management software?
<stgraber> iTalc ?
<davidgroos> That's cool, I was looking at that.
<davidgroos> I'd also heard of something like samoyan
<davidgroos> or something
<davidgroos> unfortunately I can't remember the name of the software exactly and haven't had luck googling 'samoyan' samboyan etc.
<davidgroos> Not sounding familiar to anyone?
<stgraber> not really no, the only thing that I can think of based on that name is sabayon but it's not really a classroom management software so I doubt it's what you are looking for
<davidgroos> hmmm maybe I misunderstood what was being described--the name is too similar to be a coincidence, I think.  Thanks stgraber for throwing it out there!
<davidgroos> I'm going to check it out!
<davidgroos> Another question--I'm just starting a project where I'll be using edubuntu thin clients and need an easy way to import users from some csv or other formate file.
<davidgroos> I was totally unable to find software to load users into the ubuntu server.  Any ideas here?
<stgraber> a shell script parsing that file and doing the adduser is certainly the easiest, though if you have a lot of user and may need to split them across two servers soon, having a LDAP server may be best (then use some LDAP tools to add the users)
<davidgroos> Cool info!  I'm really quite a noob at this so what is obvious to you is an insight to me!
<davidgroos> I've got a friend who could write a script like this, I'd guess.  Anything in particular I should tell him?
<stgraber> yeah, add the user to the same groups as a normal user (from a desktop installation) except adm and admin
<stgraber> so they can have sound and everything working correctly but can't run sudo
<stgraber> oh, and for LTSP, you'll need to add them to the "fuse" group too to have usbkey support
<davidgroos> Thanks so much stgraber.  I've put some stuff on line about my project but wonder if I put the info in the right place--should I be using an edubuntu wiki instead of the Ubuntu wiki?
<davidgroos> Here it is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MinnesotaTeam/Education
<stgraber> davidgroos: oh, I'll send that URL to some guys at the office, they might be interested and may give you a hand.
<stgraber> I'm working for a company that does thin clients and desktop deployement mainly in school districts
<davidgroos> That would be awesome!  which state?
<stgraber> We're in Canada (Quebec) and have some school districts here in Canada and one in Indiana
<stgraber> and another in the US IIRC
<davidgroos> I would love to share ideas--though I enjoy and am ok w/ technology my specialty is teaching.
<davidgroos> my e-mail is djgroos@gmail.com
<stgraber> ok, mine is stgraber@revolutionlinux.com (or stgraber@ubuntu.com for the Ubuntu community side :)) and my company is http://www.revolutionlinux.com/?lang=en
<Rideh> stgraber: this channel is much more free with info than your typical irc channel :D
<davidgroos> I know very little about irc protocol and appreciate clear instruction on such!
<davidgroos> Thanks so much to all you who are helping get these great open source solutions into kids hands.
<davidgroos> I expect to be on this channel quite a bit :-)
<Rideh> davidgroos: irc has been around a very long time
<Rideh> many "script kiddies" and such roam and use this as a play ground to flex their skills
<Rideh> things are becomming more civil but still be cognosent that like anywhere there are always ppl with ill intentions lurking
<Ahmuck> any suggestions for a "burn in" linux iso?
<davidgroos> Thanks Rideh.  I searched script kiddies and so they could use e-mail addresses?  Or the worry would be some lurker noting the address then
<Rideh> nah email address is just a email address but you might get unnecessary hassle
<davidgroos> e-mailing me off line purporting to help but getting info to do otherwise?  Or am I missing something?
<Rideh> anything
<davidgroos> Right.  Thanks.
<stgraber> my e-mail addresses are already on all existing spammer list (my server gets around 40k spams a day) so one more place isn't really a problem :)
<Rideh> stgraber: wasnt really directed at you, i'm fairly confident your aware of irc's roots
<Rideh> davidgroos: just mentioned hes new to irc
<Rideh> such a good resource hate to see ppl turned away from it because of bs
<stgraber> right
<stgraber> davidgroos: http://blog.revolutionlinux.com/en/post/2008/10/28/T-L-2008-%3A-Thin-Client-Lab-Setup
<stgraber> good example of what you can do with LTSP and localapps + a lot of people from various school districts were T+L and used (maybe without knowing) thin clients while attending conferences in that room
<davidgroos> Thanks, I'll check it out!
<sbalneav> ls
<sbalneav> whoops
<Ahmuck> if i use the server for my main pc will i still be able to serve 8 clients from it?
<Ahmuck> wrong question.  can i use a quad-core, 4g ram server for my use and still serve 8 clients comfortablly?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Should be able to with no problem.
 * Ahmuck grumbles the server boards don't come with sound
<Ahmuck> vanilla ubuntu ltsp server install on a board with two nics won't connect to the inet unless one goes in and unremarks the dhcp line in /etc/network/interfaces
<sbalneav> Well, typically, an LTSP server doesn't have the "internet" side as a DHCP interface.
<sbalneav> Servers should have fixed IP interfaces.
<Ahmuck> ah.  yes
<Ahmuck> it fixes eth1 as the static, so is it serving eth0 ?
<sbalneav> Well, eth1's probably managed by network manager, which you should set as a static interface as well.
<sbalneav> Usually, in a server environment.
<sbalneav> Well, late here, heading to bed.
<sbalneav> Night all
#edubuntu 2009-10-26
<alkisg> !info ltsp-client
<ubottu> ltsp-client (source: ltsp): LTSP client environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.65-0ubuntu2 (jaunty), package size 39 kB, installed size 72 kB
#edubuntu 2009-10-27
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> hi
<sbalneav> Morning all!
<scottmaccal> good morning.
<sbalneav> scottmaccal: Back at work?
<LaserJock> stgraber, highvoltage: ping
<LaserJock> anybody around in here?
<sbalneav> me
<sbalneav> just us chickens
<sbalneav> When I get back home tonight, I'll test the dvd
<LaserJock> alkisg: ping
<alkisg> Hi all
<LaserJock> hey
<LaserJock> so we need a release announcement and release notes
<LaserJock> what do you all want mentioned in either/both?
<alkisg> That we need people to get involved with edubuntu less it dies? :D
<LaserJock> alkisg: anything else? :-)
<alkisg> There are many things I'd like to say, but I lack the words to express them...
<alkisg> Now that edubuntu is on a dvd instead of a cd, thanks to you, it can become something better but it needs a lot of work too
<alkisg> But I can't express myself about what needs to be done...
<sbalneav> "Edubuntu has made major improvements in usability.  It has gone back to being a full distro with a DVD installer"
<sbalneav> Improvements to LTSP, and management tools also enhance the experience.
<alkisg> I think we should also put a big thank you there for LaserJock which will be "retiring"
<LaserJock> ok, but what has changed from Jaunty
<LaserJock> what potential pitfalls are there?
<alkisg> We should also specifically mention that sabayon is now again in a working state
<LaserJock> ok, good one
<LaserJock> edubuntu-server should be working due to jbicha's moodle fixes
<LaserJock> gcompris had a pretty big version jump that includes several fixes
<alkisg> italc has had some improvements in autodetecting the clients and avoiding ports in use...
<alkisg> ...language support was added on the edubuntu dvd for many languages...
<jbicha> Marble has a visual changelog at http://edu.kde.org/marble/current_0.8.php
<sbalneav> alkisg: we closed a lot of LTSP bugs, and I'd like to plow through, for next release, a lot of the bugs on some of the other packages.
<sbalneav> screem looks like it needs some love :(
<alkisg> I'm trying to organize things for all greek schools that want to use standalone ubuntu installations (non-ltsp). So to be honest, I don't expect to have much time this year for bug squashing.
<alkisg> I'll be creating 2-3 packages and trying to push them upstream in universe, and I'll be writing wiki pages, though
<alkisg> For bugs, I'll try to help as much as I can with ltsp and italc...
<LaserJock> alkisg: that that we ask is that you do what you can, when you can, everything helps!
 * alkisg gives many, many hours per day to get Ubuntu to fit in Greek schools... :)
<LaserJock> yeah, that's awesome stuff
<LaserJock> you need to do a brain dump sometime
<LaserJock> on what kinds of things you do
<alkisg> My "plan" is like this: (1) find what needs to be done for greek schools (sbalneav will hate me for abusing the unix users system)
<alkisg> (2) document it (3) script it (4) make a remix out of it (5) when I see that it is out there and working for greece, I'll try to "publish" as much as people want upstream
<alkisg> That last part has the most "beurocracy", which I hate... :)
<ogra> sbalneav, dont forget ltsp-cluster support
<ogra> (should surely be in the release notes)
<ogra> LaserJock, all your new splits in the age dependant metapackages should be mentioned
<jbicha> for next release, I'd like us to get subject/topic metapackages like debian-edu uses, ubuntu-edu-geography ubuntu-edu-music , etc.
<ogra> that might end in endless fragmentation though
<LaserJock> yeah, I'm not convinced that we need a lot more meta-packages
<stgraber> LaserJock: pong
<ogra> ubuntu-edu-geography-preschool, ubuntu-edu-geography-unioversity ...
<LaserJock> stgraber: we need release notes and release announcement
<jbicha> possibly instead of ubuntu-edu-primary
 * alkisg would like for edubuntu to provide an infrastructure for *other* people to do that (=make package collections)
<stgraber> highvoltage: highvoltage started to work on something on his gobby server
<stgraber> highvoltage: did you have a look ?
<stgraber> doh
<stgraber> LaserJock: ^
<LaserJock> stgraber: I don't know where it is
<stgraber> hang on a sec, looking at my jabber log
<jbicha> there's not a lot of difference between primary & preschool or between secondary & tertiary, stuff overlaps
<LaserJock> currently no
<jbicha> it works for debian
<ogra> so you would think gcompris is a good tool for universities ?
<LaserJock> Debian is quite different from Ubuntu though
<ogra> yeah
<stgraber> LaserJock: jono.co.za
<ogra> or tuxtype
<stgraber> the release notes schema is there, just need to fill it
<LaserJock> k, good
<jbicha> ogra: we could keep a category for young children, but "ubuntu-edu-tertiary" is too broad and not well-defined
<LaserJock> that I can generally agree on
<ogra> might be
<LaserJock> what I think might be a better option
<ogra> but turning it into task driven generates a big amount of maintenance overhead
<ogra> and also puts up the question where you stop splitting
<LaserJock> is to turn -tertiary or something similar into a "basic educational/research workstation" type install
<LaserJock> so rather than doing specific topic-area apps
<LaserJock> we do things like bibliography tools
<LaserJock> writing and productivity tools
<ogra> ++
<LaserJock> and some good theming
<stgraber> what I discussed a few times, is to have the ability to install everything, then have filtering using xdg to only show a few entries with the list of entries to be configurable (as it depends on the grade, the country and in some cases, the region)
<ogra> (not that i would have to decide anything) :)
 * ogra points to edubuntu-menus
<jbicha> some categorization is useful for findability, if I wanted to find recommended music software for education in Ubuntu, where would I go?
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> well
<ogra> it has so much potential
<LaserJock> I think there's sort of two area
<ogra> and stioll nobody finished it
<LaserJock> ogra: now that I'm retired you never know ;-)
<ogra> jbicha, software-center
<ogra> LaserJock, hah
<ogra> LaserJock, you mean like edubuntu grew a community after is stepped back ?
<LaserJock> I think we can categorize without metapackages
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> just add the right patches to software-center
<LaserJock> I think it should be considered that we have a custom software-center view
<ogra> ++
<jbicha> ogra: there's 104 choices for music, I don't know if any of them are useful
<jbicha> LaserJock: ooh, we can do that?
<ogra> software-center is at some point supposed to replace all GUI package management tools
<LaserJock> jbicha: sure, why not?
<LaserJock> I was thinking this weekend
<ogra> jbicha, software-.center only had its first release, its still open to improvements
<ogra> lucid is the perfect time to spec such additions
<LaserJock> that we need a core Edubuntu
<jbicha> yeah, I just wasn't creative enough to think of that
<LaserJock> that's about theming, productivity, and a general educational feel
<LaserJock> *without* specific educational content areas
<LaserJock> and without much age specificity
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> and then add on those layers
<LaserJock> what we're doing now is the opposite
<LaserJock> making the general (edubuntu-desktop) depend on the specific
<LaserJock> I think we should reverse that and make the specific depend on the general
<LaserJock> and make the specific more accessible to the end user
<LaserJock> I think that could be done via Ubiquity and Software Center
<LaserJock> essentially
<LaserJock> I'm thinking Edubuntu should be "plugin" based
<LaserJock> we provide a core and the means to plug in extras edu goodness
<LaserJock> s/extras/extra/
<ogra> LaserJock, and you dare to resign with such an idea in mind ? tsk
<LaserJock> I got the ideas
<LaserJock> just not the time :(
<jbicha> have we considered the KDE desktop for Edubuntu? I mean there's kde-edu but not a similar project for GNOME
<LaserJock> jbicha: edubuntu-desktop-kde
<LaserJock> if we consider this plugin-based design I think it would be entirely conceivable to make it work very well on Kubuntu
<LaserJock> I think you still need to pick one in terms of the DVD
<jbicha> but GNOME's the default, is GNOME more usable (or better supported by Ubuntu) in schools?
<alkisg> How hard is it for an admin to provide a list of packages? Do we really have to give such a big focus to package selection? Wouldn't it be better if we focused in some "out of the box" solutions? (like e.g. prepared ldap/nfs configurations...)
<LaserJock> alkisg: I agree
 * alkisg is right onto that this year... :)
<LaserJock> but some "out of the box" solutions will be app-dependent
<LaserJock> consider the "parent with small kids" solution
<alkisg> Well, we could provide him a dansguardian-based solution or something...
<LaserJock> preciously
<LaserJock> I think looking at out of the box "solutions" as plugins to a core Edubuntu sounds interesting
<LaserJock> so what's needed are:
<LaserJock> 1) the core
 * alkisg thinks more people will be interested in this than in meta-packages
<LaserJock> 2) a few "solutions" that Edubuntu does *very* well
<LaserJock> 3) putting it all on an installation media
<LaserJock> it would be good *hint* to spec this out and see if it could work for Lucid
<jbicha> so these "solutions" would be separate from the normal deb dependency system....because otherwise it's just metapackages with a different name (& possibly philosophy)
<LaserJock> they might be implemented via metapackages
<LaserJock> it doesn't matter a whole lot
<LaserJock> it's more the design of it than the actual implementation method
<jbicha> by the way, does anyone have a list of stuff that needs to be packaged, the software I could find (like BlueJ) has been too complicated
<LaserJock> unless something is brand new, if we dont' have a package yet in Debian/Ubuntu it's probably for a reason :-0
<LaserJock> :-) rather
<alkisg> LaserJock (since I think is in your field) have you looked at http://phet.colorado.edu/index.php for packaging?
<jbicha> yeah, but...you say you need help with packaging
<LaserJock> jbicha: ah, well by packaging I usually mean package maintenance
<LaserJock> jbicha: things like that moodle fixing you did
<LaserJock> alkisg: I don't think those are open source
<jbicha> LaserJock: oh ok, that's probably better than starting from scratch anyway
<jbicha> http://phet.colorado.edu/about/licensing.php
<LaserJock> ok, yeah, great
<LaserJock> so yeah, I guess they'd be a candidate
<alkisg> scratch could also be a candidate...
<LaserJock> it used to be we didn't have a Free java VM, which ruled out us shipping and java apps
<alkisg> http://scratch.mit.edu/
 * LaserJock runs
<alkisg> Heh :)
<LaserJock> I don't want to touch anything related to Squeak :-)
<LaserJock> but yeah, somebody should look at scratch
<alkisg> Also I've heard many teachers here using http://belvedere.sourceforge.net/ ...
<LaserJock> interesting
<alkisg> Finally, klatin was used but is no longer maintained upstream :(
<LaserJock> yeah, that died during KDE3 -> KDE4
<jbicha> oh, neat, there's already a PPA for scratch https://launchpad.net/~scratch/+archive/ppa
<mhall119|work> what about squeak?
<mhall119|work> scratch is a cool game
<mhall119|work> kind of like etoys, only with pre-made art and nicer puzzle-shaped blocks
<LaserJock> mhall119|work: squeak and I have a long and not-very-pleasant past :-)
<mhall119|work> heh, I can understand
<sbalneav> ok, time for me and jammcq to head to the airport
<sbalneav> be on tonight
<LaserJock> sbalneav: k
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I wonder if we should combine the release notes and release announcement
<highvoltage> LaserJock: pong
<highvoltage> hi LaserJock
<highvoltage> LaserJock: my initial understanding was that it would be pretty much the same
<highvoltage> LaserJock: sorry that I didn't finish it (or even start it properly), I just haven't been able to concentrate enough to just get it done
<LaserJock> highvoltage: well, the Ubuntu release notes are mostly (here are known problems)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: whereas the release announcement is all the "this is who we are and how you get it"
<LaserJock> I don't know how many "known problems" we're going to have that aren't already covered in Ubuntu's notes
<LaserJock> perhaps we should have Release Notes be the full version with all the info
<LaserJock> and the announcement just be a brief couple paragraphs
<highvoltage> LaserJock: that sounds like a very good
<highvoltage> LaserJock: awesome opening paragraph you put there
<LaserJock> highvoltage: thanks
<LaserJock> highvoltage: do you have a little time now?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yep
<LaserJock> stgraber: available'ish?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it looks like what Ubuntu does is write the release notes on the wiki and keep a copy there, but the official location (where user and links go to) is on the website
<stgraber> LaserJock: doing some iso testing, so yeah
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think it would make sense to do similar so we can update the release notes (I'm guessing there'll have more "known issues" after release)
<LaserJock> my general thought is that the Release Notes should be a bit more prominent
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok
<LaserJock> in the sense that as time goes by after release and big issues come up
<LaserJock> we should document them in the Known Issues
<LaserJock> and *then* point people their
<LaserJock> *there
<LaserJock> so like last release we had this stupid bug in Gcompris that I couldn't fix via an SRU
<LaserJock> that should have gone into the release notes, even though I found out about it post-release
<LaserJock> and when people had problems I could at least point to the release notes
<LaserJock> it could be sort of a "go there first, then ask questions" type thing
<LaserJock> thoughts?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I have to leave for a few mintes, I'll be back in about 10 minutes (sorry just have to help someone quickly)
<LaserJock> np
<stgraber> LaserJock: sounds good
<stgraber> not sure we have anything broken at the moment (other than what's common with Ubuntu)
<LaserJock> right
<stgraber> so we should redirect readers to Ubuntu's as well
<stgraber> what's the state of Moodle ? I remember reading about some issues there, has that been fixed ?
<LaserJock> we are
<LaserJock> I *think* it's fixed :-)
<LaserJock> that was going to be something that was going in Known Issues, but I think jbica has fixed that
<LaserJock> for know we can basically leave an empty section with "Important issues and workarounds will be noted here"
<stgraber> "At the time of the release, we haven't been made aware of any issues outside of these listed in the Ubuntu release notes. Additional information may be added here at a later time" ?
<LaserJock> yeah, perfect
<highvoltage> hmmm
<LaserJock> uh oh
<LaserJock> what'd I do now
<highvoltage> not you, LP :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: can you guys read over what I have so far?
<highvoltage> LP's UI and I have never gotten along quite well
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I went through it and I think it's good
<LaserJock> hmm, there was something I was remembering that should go into known issues but I've forgotten
<highvoltage> LaserJock: what's the URL for the edubuntu bugs again? I'm failing to find it atm
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I just added some to What's New
<LaserJock> highvoltage: bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugsquad/+packagereport ?
<LaserJock> that's from memory so YMMV
<highvoltage> LaserJock: on the ltsp-cluster line, it has been available before, but what's new this time is that it's now available in the ubuntu archives
<LaserJock> well
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I've modified the description but I'm not sure whether it's nice.
<LaserJock> it doesn't exist until it's in the archives :-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: our previous release notes disagrees!
<LaserJock> fine, be that way ;-p
<LaserJock> highvoltage: how's that?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: good, although reading the 9.04 announcements again I think it's fine like it was
<highvoltage> LaserJock: it (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Release/9.04/ReleaseNotes) just mentioned that the thin client supported ltsp-cluster, not that it was available for installation
<highvoltage> LaserJock: so your original point there was probably fine
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> tbh I'm kinda of not considering the 9.04 release notes much
<LaserJock> that was the old Edubuntu!
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: *hug*
<LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: time to put this on the wiki?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: +1
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I can't think of anything important that isn't covered yet
<LaserJock> what URL do we want?
<LaserJock>  /Edubuntu/Release/9.10/ReleaseNotes?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/edubuntu/edubuntuwikisite/wikisite/officialnotes/releasenotes/karmic/9.04/KarmicReleaseNotes
 * highvoltage ducks
<LaserJock> or should it be /Releases/ (i kind of have a problem with putting multple things into a singular category but maybe that's just me)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: as in /Edubuntu/Releases/9.10 ?
<LaserJock> yeah
<highvoltage> I think that's good
<LaserJock> just because we're putting multiple releases in there
<highvoltage> *nod*
<stgraber> LaserJock: +1
<LaserJock> stgraber, highvoltage (and anybody else): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseNotes
<LaserJock> I tweaked the known issues section
<highvoltage> LaserJock: thanks, that's a relief
<LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: now working on announcement
<LaserJock> I've copied over the top bits from the release notes
<LaserJock> I think if we condense that a bit and add in a "Where to get it" I think it should be good
<highvoltage> LaserJock: so the Release Announcements will be a few paragraphs?
<LaserJock> yeah, I think it should be pretty brief
<LaserJock> I guess the most important things are "hey, we're new!" and "here's how you get it"
<LaserJock> thoughts?
<highvoltage> LaserJock: yeah
<LaserJock> gah
<highvoltage> and a live gah?
<LaserJock> what the heck do you call a LiveCD session?
<LaserJock> I want words normal people can understand
<highvoltage> I've never known it by any other name than a "Live CD session"
<highvoltage> I guess you could spell it out like "try it out by running it directly from the DVD without installing" or something similar
<LaserJock> how does that sound?
<highvoltage> yeah
<highvoltage> feels like it's missing something
<highvoltage> I'm in a weird perfectionistic mode where nothing just feels right. sorry :/
<highvoltage> I've made a slight change but if it doesn't sound right feel free to remove
<LaserJock> well it's only a problem if you dont' fix it ;-)
<LaserJock> ah, much better, IMO
<LaserJock> highvoltage: how about just plain "modifying your computer"?
<highvoltage> k
<highvoltage> (I was thinking of that too)
<LaserJock> good
<LaserJock> highvoltage: s/try/run/ ?
<highvoltage> k
<LaserJock> let's move on to installation before we pick it to death :-)
<highvoltage> heh, indeed
<highvoltage> I'm bummed that I don't have an edubuntu iso and not enough bandwidth do sync up :/
<highvoltage> it would be nice to have an installation guide with screenshots again
<LaserJock> highvoltage: since we already described what you can do with the DVD above I suggest we maybe just tell how to get the .iso and link to how to burn it
<highvoltage> I guess I could still do that after the 1st
<LaserJock> sure
<highvoltage> (brb)
<vmlintu> Hi! Anyone else getting nbd+squashfs errors when rebooting ltsp thin clients on karmic? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/457702
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 457702 in ubuntu "nbd+squashfs errors when rebooting ltsp thin clients" [Undecided,New]
<highvoltage> LaserJock: I don't have isos but I have the karmic repositories at least
<highvoltage> LaserJock: if you don't find a kde user I could install kde on my netbook if there's enough space
<LaserJock> it's just a quick thing
<LaserJock> highvoltage: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseAnnouncement
<LaserJock> I want to add a thing on how to install the app bundles from Kubuntu
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok installing kpackagekit... I just confirmed with #kubuntu that that's what they actually use
<LaserJock> good grief
<LaserJock> like all the servers are crawling today
<highvoltage> I guess everyone is keeping their debmirrors as up to date as possible in anticipation
<LaserJock> I need to get how to get to kpackagekit :(
<LaserJock> ok, done
<LaserJock> highvoltage: can you do the wiki - > edubuntu.org on release day?
<LaserJock> highvoltage, stgraber: OK, I'm done.
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseAnnouncement
<LaserJock> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Releases/9.10/ReleaseNotes
<LaserJock> ^^ those need to be put on edubuntu.org for release day
<LaserJock> make sure to note that there are 2 FIXME markers in the announcement
<LaserJock> I don't know what the exact URL for the .iso is going to be
<LaserJock> There is a hopefully final .iso up at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/20091027.1/
<LaserJock> please test those if you can
<LaserJock> and with that I'm out
<LaserJock> not sure when I'll be on next
<LaserJock> so have a great release everybody and thanks!
<dtrask> Hey all....I need help....this is somewhat related to edubuntu as it is for Open1to1.org and the image that I create for school netbooks....
<dtrask> I have had schools complaining that students are creating "ad hoc" networks via network-manager and thus wreaking havoc on the school wireless network
<dtrask> does anyone know of a way (clean or hack...I'm desperate here) of disabling the ability to create...and/or connect to an ad-hoc wireless network?
#edubuntu 2009-10-28
<alkisg> !info ldm-ubuntu-theme
<ubottu> Package ldm-ubuntu-theme does not exist in jaunty
<alkisg> !info ldm-ubuntu-themes
<ubottu> ldm-ubuntu-themes (source: ldm): Themes for the LTSP Display Manager. In component main, is optional. Version 2:2.0.38-0ubuntu5 (jaunty), package size 967 kB, installed size 1164 kB
<alkisg> !info ldm-edubuntu-theme
<ubottu> Package ldm-edubuntu-theme does not exist in jaunty
<alkisg> !info ldm-edubuntu-themes
<ubottu> Package ldm-edubuntu-themes does not exist in jaunty
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvolt1ge> morning sbalneav
<sbalneav> highvolt1ge: I have committed with LaserJock that I will take on the CD image work within edubuntu.
<sbalneav> As well, I'll have to become a motu, so that will have to happen this cycle.
<highvolt1ge> sbalneav: wow, that's great
<Ahmuck-Sr> anyone seen abicolab?
<sbalneav> Nope.
<Ahmuck-Sr> https://abicollab.net/
<Ahmuck-Sr> i assume it's similar to golem ?
<sbalneav> I'm not familiar with golem.  This appears to be a web site, while a golem is a 7 foot tall monster made of clay who kills on command.  So at first look, no, I'd say they're not similar. :)
<sbalneav> But I suspect my classical education is doing me dirt here :)
<ogra> i think the golem part is referring to the fact that you need a written piece of paper to make it kill
<ogra> so it must be a collaboratively multi controlled 7 foot tall clay monster i think
<ogra> hooking into a text editor so you can write the commands :)
<sbalneav> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem
<sbalneav> Next, someone will want gobby-golem.
<sbalneav> then we'll ALL be in trouble.
<Ahmuck-Sr> ah yes, gobby
<ogra> well, as long as you dont send it to UDS :)
<sbalneav> Right, save that for GDS
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Were these answers helpful to you? :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> yes
<sbalneav> We aim to please, or at least to entertain :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> though, through gobby you could have a collaborative golem, killing processes, etc.
<Ahmuck-Sr> actually, it might be a neat "hack" tool of sorts.   The Golem
<sbalneav> Killing user.... processes.  Riiiiiiight. :)
<ogra> heh
<Ahmuck-Sr> rofl
<Ahmuck-Sr> see, now i want a gobby golem
<Ahmuck-Sr> you've talked me into it
<ogra> write one
<ogra> ots free software after all :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> i can't right now, i'm practicing my moaning
<Ahmuck-Sr> trying to get just that right kind of gobby-golem moan
<ogra> better get some clay and start working on it :)
<Ahmuck-Sr> hey, someone want to post to Edubuntu a Halloween Fools' Joke, and annouse the new collabartive editor, gobby-gollem?
<Ahmuck-Sr> slashdot would work as well i suppose
<Ahmuck-Sr> or the onion
<ogra> the onion ?
<ogra> golems in layers ?
<ogra> like babooshka puppets ?
<ogra> i'd say thats rather something for advanced clay workers
 * Ahmuck-Sr toddles off to do something constructive
<Ahmuck-Sr> http://linux.wareseeker.com/Miscellaneous/gollem-h3-1.0.3.zip/340678 - ack, to late
#edubuntu 2009-10-29
<sbalneav> Evening all
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<Ahmuck> quiet here today
<Ahmuck> so launch is this evening?
<Ahmuck> official or is it tomorrow?  UTC iirc, but i haven't sat down to figure out what UTC would be
<Ahmuck> brb
<Balsaq> help getting printer to print in abiword, i did do a test print
<LaserJock> highvoltage:
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ping
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey there, I'm just about to head off to work!
<LaserJock> sbalneav: hi
<sbalneav> I'll be on again in a bit.  Announcements going out today?
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> stgraber: are you working on the wiki page?
<LaserJock> WHO IS WORKING ON THE WEBSITE? :-)
<highvoltage> sorry me
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ok, I updated the front page paragraphs
<LaserJock> highvoltage: the banner and the Download page are all that remains I believe
<highvoltage> LaserJock: the release isn't available quite yet right?
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I don't think so
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I gave slangasek the green light, but he wanted to make sure the website was ready
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think we're close
<highvoltage> oh I thought the dependencies were the other way around
<LaserJock> well
<highvoltage> ok in that case I've updated the banner so long
<LaserJock> the banner is OK
<LaserJock> but the stuff should all be in place so that when the .iso appears everything is also ready
<highvoltage> ah, oops ok
<highvoltage> LaserJock: ok, I'll put the 9.10 banner on when the image is available
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I think it's real soon now
<LaserJock> I can't even connect to cdimage.ubuntu.com :(
<LaserJock> we really need some mirrors
<jsgotangco> go go go!?
<highvoltage> go go jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> anything i can do to help :)
<jsgotangco> but it seems everything is now covered
<LaserJock> yep, I think we're out
<LaserJock> http://torrent.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/karmic/release/dvd/
<jsgotangco> i see it too
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm going to update the release announcement with the URLs
<highvoltage> thanks LaserJock!
<LaserJock> we ended up a 3.3-3.4 GB
<LaserJock> .... and we are live people!
<highvoltage> \o/
<highvoltage> thanks for all your hard work LaserJock
* LaserJock changed the topic of #edubuntu to: Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | http://www.edubuntu.org | wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu || 9.10 is released!, see http://www.edubuntu.org/news/9.10-release || Help out with bugs: http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs || LTSP questions? try #ltsp
<highvoltage> we don't say so enough but it's really appreciated
 * highvoltage is blogging about it right now
<jsgotangco> big hugs to LaserJock :)
 * sbalneav gives LaserJock a big hug and a beer.
<LaserJock> well, I'm about an hour late to work
<LaserJock> so I better head off
<LaserJock> :-)
<sbalneav> go man go
<LaserJock> you guys have an awesome release day!
<LaserJock> good work team!
<sbalneav> Wow
<sbalneav> Lot of hard work in this release.
<sbalneav> Lets hope all the people who wanted a distro are happy.
<mhall119|work> congratulations to the whole team on the Live DVD
<jsgotangco> congrats again, have a fun day!
 * jsgotangco is going to sleep
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: thanks for your motivation and encouragement as well!
<mhall119|work> unfortunately that's about all I contributed this release
<mhall119|work> :(
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Better ramp up for next one, we're loosing LaserJock.
<sbalneav> We're all gonna have to pick up the slack.
<mhall119|work> aw, really?
<mhall119|work> I will have Qimo packages for the next release, I promise
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: yep.
<mhall119|work> I'm finishing up the 9.04 packages
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: I'd really like to get qimo packages in for 10.04, I hope that we can work together on that
<mhall119|work> then I have to re-do my GDM theme for the new GDM in 9.10, and figure out XSplash
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: me too, I've figured out how to make a Qimo X Session that doesn't over-ride the default XFCE settings
<mhall119|work> also, I figured out the proper way to apply my GDM theme
<mhall119|work> doing that the wrong way has caused upgrade problems
<highvoltage> mhall119|work: cool
<mhall119|work> congratulations to highvoltage on becoming a MOTU
<highvoltage> finally \o/
<highvoltage> next are you and sbalneav :)
<mhall119|work> yeah, I'll probably be a while
<mhall119|work> gotta work on my Ubuntu Membership application first
<alkisg> Saving to: `ubuntu-9.10-alternate-i386.iso'
<alkisg> 100%[=============================================================>] 723068928   21,0M/s   in 38s
<alkisg> /me wishes he had the same line at home as he has at work...
<sudobash> the ubuntu ops are all dick heads...
<sudobash> look who came in
<sudobash> what are you waiting for Lorenzo?
<sudobash> oh noooooo niko now
<sudobash> you must be up to something LjL... like a kline?
<sbalneav> Ummmm, something going on?
<sbalneav> :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I think it was a bot
<sbalneav> What was he/she/it doing in the other channel?
<ikonia> do you mean sudobash by any chance ?
<sbalneav> yeah
<ikonia> not a bot - just a troll
<ikonia> sorry for the disruption
<highvoltage> oh wow, it looked so automated :)
<sbalneav> No no, "The world is quiet here" :)
<sbalneav> We can use the excitement
<sbalneav> Ahhh, Lemony Snicket.
<ikonia> edubuntu is one of the more easy channels to participate in thankfully
<sbalneav> When we drive away in secret/You'll be a volunteer/So don't scream when we take you/"The world is quiet here"
 * sbalneav grabs popcorn
<sudobash> what was that for Pici?
<sudobash> I didnt say anything
 * jbicha wanders around looking for celebration cake
<sudobash> ubuntu ops suck dick
<Lns> Wow I didn't know Steve Ballmer knew how to use IRC
<sbalneav> That was nowhere NEAR as entertaining as I wanted it to be.
<micahg> any chance of a ppc port for edubuntu karmic?
<sbalneav> Sure!  Just as soon as we find someone to do it :)
<sbalneav> micahg: I think you CAN get ltsp chroots for PPX
<sbalneav> C sorry
<sbalneav> So you could use them as thin clients to attack an i386 edubuntu server.
<micahg> I have an old mac laptop I was going to throw this on
<alkisg> sbalneav: I don't think micahg is talking about ltsp...
<micahg> no, the DVD
<alkisg> You need less lobster :P :D
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> yeah, in that case, no, I don't think we have an installer for PPC.
<Meshezabeel> Is Edubuntu 9.10 a self-contained CD, or is it an add-on to Ubuntu?
<sbalneav> Meshezabeel: Self contained DVD
<Meshezabeel> And the CD is an add-on?
<Meshezabeel> This is a bit confusing: "The education desktop and application bundle now installs as an add-on to a standard Ubuntu desktop. All releases prior to 8.04 now follow this format"
<sbalneav> No, this release it's a full distro.
<sbalneav> Where are you finding that quote?
<Meshezabeel> Okay, thanks
<Meshezabeel> it is on the http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted page
<sbalneav> ok, the page hasn't been updated then.
<Meshezabeel> but still what does it mean "prior" :)
<sbalneav> highvoltage: Can you modify that? I don't have an account on the web page server.
<sbalneav> Well, that's the wrong word.
<sbalneav> Should be subsequent.
<sbalneav> ok, heading home
<sbalneav> I'll be on this evening.
<Meshezabeel> thanks sbalneav
<dgroos> Good Evening All
<dgroos> s-l-o-w-l-y downloading edubuntu 9.10.  Looking forward to check out all your hard work.  Don't figure I'll be using it right away with my students, but I'll learn it at home.
<dgroos> Thanks for your work!!!
#edubuntu 2009-10-30
<sbalneav> Evening
<dgroos> sbalneav: Good eve
<dgroos> sbalneav: I've wanted to get back to you about Sabayon (thanks again).  I've got a question about it and a couple of ideas and am curious as to what you are thinking about it.
<sbalneav> I'm thinking it needs more work :)
<dgroos> I've been excessively busy but finally got my Plone site working again so all part of the puzzle are on the table, finally!
<sbalneav> I'm applying for an upstream gnome account as we speak, and federico's going to sponsor me.
<dgroos> I can focus more of my attention on teaching...
<dgroos> He's the one who initiated Sabayon?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> he's been maintaining it for the last few years.
<dgroos> Oh.
<sbalneav> but earlier this afternoon, in #sabayon
<sbalneav> :
<sbalneav> < federico> sbalneav: you aren't stepping on anyone's toes - sabayon is right now a one-man show (you) plus me just making tarballs :)
<sbalneav> So, apparently, it's a one-man show :)
<dgroos> hmmm... gives lots of room for artistic freedom, I'd say ;)
<dgroos> I just checked out #sabayon and isn't that a distro?
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> well, yes
<sbalneav> sabayon is a distro
<sbalneav> but the sabayon GNOME project is soemthing different.
<sbalneav> the #sabayon channel isn't on freenode
<sbalneav> it's on gnome's IRC server.
<dgroos> OK still working to figure out this structure--probably till the day I die...
<dgroos> sbalneav: gotta hit the sack.  Hope to be on more this weekend--'see' you then perhaps!
<sbalneav> So, what's your question?
<dgroos> kinda complex--catch you this weekend?
<sbalneav> Well, I'll be at the cottage closing up
<lfaraone> If I want to set up a local app that needs to be able to write in its own directory, can that be done?
<sbalneav> Anything's possible :)
<sbalneav> just might need some modification to the localapps code.
<sbalneav> but out-of-the-box, no.
<sbalneav> which app is it you're trying to run locally?
<lfaraone> sbalneav: It's Alice, from http://alice.org
<mhall119|work> Alice is cool
<alkisg> lfaraone: is that under wine?
<alkisg> Or plain java? /me thinks you might be able to use the newer version of ltsp that follows symlinks...
<mhall119|work> Alice is just plain Java
<sbalneav> Karmic UNR is freaking AWESOME
<MenZa> orly?
<sbalneav> EVERYTHING works out of the box.
<sbalneav> Even the wireless LED light \o/
<sbalneav> on my little acer aspire one.
<jbicha> sbalneav: and the UNR interface performs so much better than in previous versions where it was just too slow & clumsy
<jbicha> I'm waiting for Mary Lou Jepsen to release her fancy LCD screen replacement since I cracked my AAO screen
<sbalneav> seems pretty peppy
<mhall119|work> will UNR 9.04 upgrade itself to UNR 9.10?
<jbicha> mhall119|work: I'm pretty sure upgrading to Karmic will work fine
 * mhall119|work will have to try it on his wife's netbook
<sbalneav> http://picasaweb.google.com/sbalneaves/LTSP#
<fasthans> hello
<HedgeMage> hello
#edubuntu 2009-10-31
<Ahmuck> anybody home today?
<Ahmuck> kubuntu is the dream upgrade :)
<sbalneav> Evening all
<Ahmuck> hi sbalneav
<Ahmuck> got a question ... upgrading to 9.10 do i need to do a client rebuild?
<sbalneav> Yes
<sbalneav> absolutely.
<Ahmuck> next question, can i use linuxmint as the base, rather than ubuntu?
<Ahmuck> i ask because linuxmint would have all the multimedia included, and i'd bypass that configuration step
 * sbalneav looks at the channel header
<sbalneav> Dunno.
<sbalneav> I'd ask at #linuxmint :)
<Ahmuck> sbalneav: sorry, i shoulda asked in ltsp
<sbalneav> If there's ltsp packages in linuxmint, maybe.
<Ahmuck> next question, i did not get a prompt to do an upgrade
<sbalneav> In what?
<Ahmuck> and apt-get dist-upgrade doesn't seem to be working
<sbalneav> Prompt to update the ltsp chroot?
<Ahmuck> prompt to update ubuntu
<Ahmuck> to 9.10
<Ahmuck> and/or edubuntu
<sbalneav> What version are you running?
<Ahmuck> 9.04
<sbalneav> If I go to the update manager on my 9.04 box, there's a section at the top that says "New distribution release 9.10 is available"
<Ahmuck> ok, thx
<sbalneav> With a button beside it to update.
<sbalneav> See it?
<Ahmuck> i'm a kubuntu on my own system, so i know ubuntu some, but not enough
<sbalneav> Well, I don't know about kubuntu.
<sbalneav> But in the gnome update manager, it tells you.
<sbalneav> You won't get any indication for the ltsp chroot.
<sbalneav> When you update your system you have to build a new chroot.
<Ahmuck> anytime i add new software, i need to build a new chroot?
<sbalneav> Well, when you update the distro, yeah.
<sbalneav> but if you've got a karmic box, with a karmic chroot, and you just want to add a program for your users to use on the server, then no.
<Ahmuck> ok, i was always confused about that
<Ahmuck> when do you update chroot?  what scenarios?
<Ahmuck> wait, it's prolly in the manual?
<sbalneav> Why yes!
<sbalneav> It is :)
<Ahmuck> :p
<Ahmuck> anywho, the kubuntu upgrade on my office standalone was soooo good, and the updated kde is soooo nice
<Ahmuck_> anybody know why an 9.04 - 9.10 update would take 20 hours?
<billet75> I tried 9.10 on a new machine, intel graphic on-board, I have to buy a card to get the install to work will there be a fix
<Ahmuck_> nice to see you again nubae
<Ahmuck_> http://pastebin.be/21659
<Ahmuck_> any ideas?
<Ahmuck_> is akonadi the default notifier now?
<nubae> hi Ahmuck_ long time no see
<nubae> how's tings?
<Ahmuck_> i'm well
<Ahmuck_> just upgraded the ltsp server
<Ahmuck_> it appears to have gone well
<Ahmuck_> i'm really impressed with *buntu 9.10
<Ahmuck_> ah, finally, found a replacement for yakuake on the ubuntu side
<Ahmuck_> tilda
<Ahmuck_> hi fasthans
<fasthans> hi
<fasthans> I still have problems in my lab.
<Ahmuck_> such as?
<fasthans> running gimp as local app, but when the students want to print an call the print dialog, it takes about 15 secs to show the network printer
<fasthans> each time...
<fasthans> any idea??
<Ahmuck_> not really.  how are other things?
<Ahmuck_> edubuntu forum ?
<fasthans> Ahmuck: what do you mean?
<Ahmuck_> brb
<Ahmuck_> bleh, i'm crashing all over
#edubuntu 2009-11-01
<RADY> hi
<jbicha> howdy
#edubuntu 2010-11-01
<MephistoM> quick question - why doesn't edubuntu release contain ofris deepfreeze system?
<nothingman> hi, all
<MephistoM> hello
<nothingman>  has anyone seen nubae lately?
<nothingman> lively crowd tonight
<nothingman> I must get on at the wrong time
<MephistoM> nope,
<MephistoM> haven't seen nubae
<mhall119> so it looks like Edubuntu will be able to continue using the "2D" gnome session
#edubuntu 2010-11-02
<major> hi, i want to run localapps on ltsp, but there is lot of wiki for ltsp on ubuntu... can som1 point me to the last reference on the topic or just tell me generally how it works?
<major> do i have to add something to the tftpboot/lts.conf?
<major> do i have to chroot and install them?
<HedgeMage> major: I'm afraid I'm no LTSP expert, you may try again in a few hours when more people have woken up.
<major> hi, i want to run localapps on ltsp, but there is lot of wiki for ltsp on ubuntu... can som1 point me to the last reference on the topic or just tell me generally how it works?
<major> do i have to add something to the tftpboot/lts.conf?
<major> do i have to chroot and install them?
<alkisg> major: you need something like that: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSPKarmicLocalAppsFirefox
<Gieltjev> hi
#edubuntu 2010-11-03
<major> hi, i want to launch a program (icecc daemon) locally. Im changing in the chroot /etc/init.d/icecc to launch "ltsp-localapps iceccd" I dont know if this is the right approach. can anybody help me?
<Pavlz> http://www.gopetition.com/petition/40352.html for untrusted hardware
<alkisg> Good morning
<kca_teacher> Hi everyone. Just wanted to share my excitement with some fellow ubuntu users :) I have always been a fan of Ubuntu, but have never been able to incorporate it into my everyday life. Now, being a teacher, it has given me just that opportunity! Hello Edubuntu!! It's exactly what I have been looking for. This suite is going to help me in educating +- 105 young minds!
<kca_teacher> Can't wait to get started
<highvoltage> mhall119: hey, around?
<mhall119> yup
<highvoltage> mhall119: what's that social plugin/block thingy you suggested at UDS called again?
<mhall119> I'm not sure what you mean
<highvoltage> to replace the identi.ca block we currently have on edubuntu.org
<mhall119> oh, twidenash
<highvoltage> yes that's the one
<mhall119> https://launchpad.net/twidenash
<mhall119> look at the loco.ubuntu.com homepage source code to see how to use it, but it's pretty simple
<highvoltage> ah, that maintainer name sounds familiar :)
<mhall119> yeah, I haven't done much to it since taking over though
<mhall119> it was originally authored by stuart langridge
<mhall119> when I sent him several bugs and code patches, he just asked me to maintain it
<highvoltage> running a bit late but edubuntu meeting starting soon!
<stgraber> alkisg: ping (meeting)
<alkisg> Ugh I'm doing something, I'll read the logs later on, sorry... :)
<highvoltage> mhall119: I'd like to toy around with the new gnome stuff, so if you get stuck and need some fresh eyes to look at something, please give me a poke :)
<mhall119> will do
<mhall119> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/GSettingsMigration
<mhall119> gnome-panel is still marked "to-do"
<mhall119> :(
<alkisg> Ah, about the EC update... I won't be able to contribute much for the next 2 years due to my phd, but I'll be around more or less, and I'll try to have a classroom administration tool ready for 12.04 :)
<highvoltage> I'm quite confident that that's quite high on the list to fix up :)
<mhall119> gnome-settings-daemon: to-do
<mhall119> gnome-shell is "done", so gnome-panel may not be all that high
<mhall119> nautilus is done at least
<highvoltage> pessulus and sabayon is marked to do too (no big surprise there, but ":(" nontheless
<mhall119> ok, I've gotta run, I'll continue looking at gsettings/dconf and try upgrading my vm to natty
<highvoltage> cool, would be interesting to see how that goes!
<sbalneav> highvoltage: yeah, I need to start digging into that for sabayon.
<sbalneav> It's going to basically end up being a re-write, since sabayon's pretty much a gconf proxy.
<sbalneav> I'm almost wondering if it might be easier to simply start from scratch.
<alkisg> sbalneav: I still think it'll be better if it is "task based"... i.e. if it offers a GUI for tweaking some certain parts of gconf/gsettings, not arbitrary ones...
<sbalneav> alkisg: Well, that's what pessulus was supposed to be, an interface for handling the lockdowns.
<alkisg> Right, and it was very handy, but also very limited
<sbalneav> I'm not sure how you'd control things like panel icons, desktop icons, etc, without a "desktop" like interface.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: sounds like an opportunity to make it somewhat nicer :)
<sbalneav> As a systems adminitrator, what *I* personally would prefer would be some kind of text-based file that specifies things.
<sbalneav> something like:
<sbalneav> Top Panel::Far Left::Menu Applet
<sbalneav> Top Panel::Next::firefox.desktop
<sbalneav> Top Panel::Next::thunderbird.desktop
<sbalneav> Top Panel::Right::FUSA applet
<sbalneav> etc.
<alkisg> I agree, but having also a GUI for that text file would mean that inexperienced users like e.g. teachers could also use it
<sbalneav> the "language" would translate into the appropriate gconf settings.
<sbalneav> Maybe the way to go would be to write the backend, and text file parser.
<sbalneav> Then the gui just creates text files.
<alkisg> That sounds much better to me than the sabayon approach
<sbalneav> I like the idea of the text file because, as a systems administrator, you say things like:
<alkisg> I've only looked at sabayon a little - I think it shows the user a bunch of keys that changed, and he then has to select which ones he wants to keep or not. I don't think that the task of key "approving" could be handled by inexperienced users... while a dialog to "add that applet to the right side of the panel" would be much easier.
<sbalneav> "Secretaries should have the same desktop as lawyers, but they need the openoffice icon on the top panel."
<sbalneav> so then you could just copy "lawyer.foo" to "secretary.foo", and add in the appropriate icon.
<sbalneav> Prolly an XML file would be the way to go.
<sbalneav> alkisg: agreed.
<dinda> well shoot, thought the meeting was now instead of an hour ago - bloody timezone changes
<sbalneav> sabayon's very overwhelming.
 * alkisg hopes gsettings offers a nicer interface for managing panels and the rest of the list-based gconf stuff
<sbalneav> So you could say in xml:
<sbalneav> <panel id="panel0" name="Top Panel">
<sbalneav>   <applet id="applet0" name="Main Menu">menu.applet</applet>
<sbalneav>   <launcher id="launcher0" name="Firefox">firefox.desktop</launcher>
<sbalneav>   <launcher id="launcher1" name="Thunderbird">thunderbird.desktop</launcher>
<sbalneav> ...
<sbalneav> etc.
<sbalneav> hmm
<sbalneav> I like that.
<alkisg> Sounds good.
<alkisg> gconf-editor also has some good potential, if somehow group-based-settings support was added to it, that would also help in many cases (just brainstorming here). E.g. "open mandatory gconf-editor for group=secretaries".
<sbalneav> yeah, I don't know yet if gsetting will have group permissions.
<sbalneav> currently that's handled through the sabayon-apply process.
<highvoltage> sbalneav: nice
<alkisg> The sabayon-apply process (as I imagine it) is very powerful, and it could also be applied for other front-ends too, right?
<sbalneav> sabayon-apply's no powerful at all.
<alkisg> So someone could make a wrapper to run gconf-editor, gather the modified settings, and pass those to sabayon-apply for a specific group... no?
<sbalneav> All it's doing is unzipping a set of gconf settings into the user's home directory :)
<sbalneav> alkisg: yeah, that would work.
<alkisg> Ah, so the user can delete his "mandatory" settings?
<sbalneav> the problem with sabayon is, when you make a change to the desktop, a HUGE number of gconf settings are modified.
<alkisg> That's exactly why I would prefer a different front end, either gconf-editor or a new UI...
<sbalneav> alkisg: no, since they'd need to re-start gconf, which would mean restarting their session.  When they log in again, the settings are re-unzipped.
<alkisg> Hmmm... aren't gconf settings read on the fly? E.g. if he runs gconftool-2 to change the settings, aren't they applied immediately?
<sbalneav> right, so having some kind of back-end that reads a well formed XML file, and produces ONLY the setting changed you want is the first step
<sbalneav> then it's just a case of coming up with a nice gui to generate the xml file.
<sbalneav> an experienced admin can just stick to editing the XML directly
<sbalneav> a teacher can use a gui to generate the XML file.
<sbalneav> Hm.  I like it.
<sbalneav> alkisg: not if they're set as mandatory settings
<alkisg> Is a new .xml format needed? Or can the same xml format as gsettings be used?
<sbalneav> the user can't modify those.
<alkisg> Nice
<sbalneav> alkisg: Well, possibly.  I need to sit down and read the gsettings docs.
<alkisg> sbalneav: btw, nice to have you back on track :)
<sbalneav> well, having a two week break from the grind has been a much needed respite.
<mhall119> sbalneav: did sabayon change the system defaults, user settings, or what?
#edubuntu 2010-11-04
<sbalneav> mhall119: Changes user settings
<sbalneav> It creates a zip file of gconf settings & files
<stgraber> morning sbalneav !
<sbalneav> Morning stgraber
<stgraber> sbalneav: back home or still somewhere in the US ?
<sbalneav> Sitting here in McQuillan's office.  I head to the airport at 11:15
<sbalneav> in 'bout an hour and 15 minutes.
<sbalneav> Just doing some more cleanup on the pam_libssh module.
<mhall119> sbalneav: so it just over-writes the user's gconf files?
<mhall119> rather than adding a new read-only source location
<mhall119> the way I was planning on doing Qimo was to add a gdm script that would add a new set of default configs between the user's settings and the default settings
<mhall119> you could do the same, adding read-only configs before the user's settings
<sbalneav> mhall119: for the mandatory settings it sets up a new directory.
<mhall119> in the user's folder, or somewhere shared?
<sbalneav> Users' folder
<mhall119> does sabayon do per-user settings, or do you define a "profile" once and assign it to multiple users or groups
<sbalneav> Sabayon can do both.
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> I'll have to play with it some i guess
<highvoltage> mhall119: hmm, my twidenash doesn't display. All I did was include the css, and link to the javascript in a block doing <script src="http://edubuntu.org/scripts/twidenash.js?edubuntu"></script>
<highvoltage> mhall119: was there anything else I should've done
<mhall119> highvoltage: I'll check it in a minute, gotta pickup the kids from school
<highvoltage> mhall119: k
<mhall119> highvoltage: do you have that code hosted somewhere I can check it?
<highvoltage> mhall119: hmm, only admin users can see it at the moment, I'll just throw it out in an html file somewhere... one moment...
<mhall119> highvoltage: are you seeing any error messages?
<highvoltage> mhall119: so I guess this is thie simplest form it should work as? http://edubuntu.org/scripts/microblogs.html
<mhall119> I think it needs a parent-block
<highvoltage> hmm, it works when I run it from the loco team site, I'll just grab that script then :)
<mhall119> that one will also check locoteams.status.net
<highvoltage> hmm, in this case it seems like that's the only one it's checking
<binyam_> is there any way to make Qcad open AutoCAD files
<mhall119> highvoltage: the newest lp:twidenash should work for you
<mhall119> rev 4
<binyam_> is there any way to make Qcad open AutoCAD dwg files
<mhall119> binyam_: don't know, sorry
<jbicha> have you guys heard of http://www.userful.com/ ? Alberta company selling Edubuntu thin client stuff?
<highvoltage> jbicha: yep, they're stuff was even packaged at one point
<highvoltage> (although not in main/universe, obviously)
<jbicha> so they're sort of competing with your company?
<highvoltage> not that I know of :)
<highvoltage> seems to be aiming for a slightly different market
<jbicha> what do you mean?
<highvoltage> jbicha: userful seems more for someone who actually just wants to implement a few computers. revolution linux does more work on the type of stuff that scales very big, like large (3000-5000 machine) LTSP deployments with LTSP cluster
<jbicha> ooh ok
<highvoltage> jbicha: if you end up deploying that much userful hardware, you'll need to go with a configuration manager anyway and could then just as well use standalone machines
<highvoltage> jbicha: anyway, if they'd like to be listed on the Edubutnu Marketplace I'd be happy to do so :)
<highvoltage> jbicha: do you have contact with them? I had in 2006 but the employees I knew there at the time aren't there anymore
<jbicha> well I don't have any contact with them, just happened to see them mentioned in news stuff I read
<jbicha> & was curious because I only knew of 1 Canadian Edubuntu business
<highvoltage> I like that you can make out an edubuntu logo on their front page
<jbicha> and their logo seems edubuntu-inspired to me
<jbicha> it's still unique
<highvoltage> yeah
#edubuntu 2010-11-05
<highvoltage> good morning
<mhall119> and a cold one too
<mhall119> 60F down here
<charlie-tca> *gm, and all the way up to 33F here
<charlie-tca> good morning from Idaho
<highvoltage> 3Â°C here, not sure what that is in F :)
<charlie-tca> umm, if I remember right, COLD?
<mhall119> in Floridian, that's F-ing COLD
<charlie-tca> :-)
<highvoltage> hehe
<sbalneav> Am I reading this right?
<sbalneav> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551
<mhall119> yup
<sbalneav> We're no longer using Gnome or Xorg?
<mhall119> it'll still run Gnome
<mhall119> and wayland can run xorg also
<mhall119> so any xorg app will run
<mhall119> there are current efforts to port GTK+ and QT to native wayland clients
<mhall119> it'll probably end up like OSX in a few years, where xorg is an add-on environment
<jbicha> sbalneav: how were you meaning to read it?
<charlie-tca> but it won't happen for a while
<mhall119> and it sounds like it'll only be for Unity, not the "2d" gnome
<charlie-tca> I wonder how much the 2d gnome will actually work? It won't be installed by default, it won't use wayland, which will be the default.
<charlie-tca> and I happen to own all nvidia cards
<jbicha> yeah, but how long is Gnome upstream going to maintain gdm 2.x ?
<highvoltage> wayland is a good idea, but I can't see how the transition to it can't suck. it's going to be an interesting few releases.
<charlie-tca> I read QT should be fully ported by 2012 ?
<charlie-tca> I am looking forward to it. Xorg kinda sucks already
<highvoltage> charlie-tca: you think wayland is going to be nicer than x-org any time soon? :)
<highvoltage> sure the design is nice, but it's going to take some time to get there
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> I wouldn't dare think that way
<charlie-tca> :-)
<mhall119> charlie-tca: 2d gnome will still be installed by default as far as I've heard
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> saw on a bug report comment from Mark that it will not be on the live cd and and will not install by default
<charlie-tca> or maybe I misunderstood?
<charlie-tca> I thought it would be installed too.
<mhall119> Unity is still going to need > 90% of Gnome
<charlie-tca> I just have to wait to see it
<mhall119> I can't imagine metacity and the panels take up that much space on the livecd
<charlie-tca> should be a testable version next week
<sbalneav> IMHO, I originally switched over from Debian to Ubuntu because Ubuntu promised to be Debian with all the rough edges smoothed out.
<charlie-tca> It just gets better :-)
<sbalneav> For me, no it doesn't.  It's only gotten worse. :(
<highvoltage> charlie-tca: indeed! we're going to have to do some waiting and seeing :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: weren't you one of the people last weekend who laughed at me because I run debian on my netbook?
<sbalneav> Nope.
<sbalneav> I wasn't.
<highvoltage> ah, ok. (good!)
<sbalneav> I was the guy who was complaining about bug fixing :)
<sbalneav> And harping on compiz :)
<highvoltage> ah right
<sbalneav> Yeah, we'll have to see.
<highvoltage> I considered running Debian on my laptop too, but for the moment it's really convenient since most of my work happens around Ubuntu anyway
#edubuntu 2010-11-06
<thetick_>  I don't have any sound effects with gcompris, but the music does play in background.  I have the gcompris-sound-en package and local="en" in my gcompris.conf.  Any ideas what I need to do to get the sound effects working ..ie the melodies for the sound games
<thetick_> I have version 9.0-0ubuntu7 installed on a lucid install
<Jinxzs> anyone here?
<thetick_> no one appears to be responding?
<Jinxzs> thetick are you bot?
<mhall119> it's after hours for must of us
<thetick_> not a bot I asked a question about gcompris about 20 minutes ago
<mhall119> thetick_: I've never experienced that
<mhall119> have you filed a bug?
<thetick_> no where is the proper site?  Is there a launchpad site for gcompris
<mhall119> yep: https://launchpad.net/gcompris
<mhall119> actually here for bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcompris
<thetick_> Cool thanks.
<mhall119> np
<Jinxzs> :)
<Jinxzs> evilson
<evilson> hello
<evilson> How is eeryone
<evilson> everyone, I mean.
<evilson> ha
<Jinxzs> im ok from where are you. can i know your name? i dont want to call you evil :)
<evilson> hello again
<evilson> sorry I was in a  few rooms. I actually had the pleasure of watching morons "chatting"
<evilson> they said it was a "help" room and everything I witnessed was first year "idiot admin" shit.
<evilson> hopefully this room has people that understand linux fund. and wont guide you wrong.
<evilson> if so I can be reached elsewhere.
<ubuXubu> good morning.
#edubuntu 2011-11-04
<nubae> Even though this is really a very genral linux thing, I feel like I found the last puzzle to get an LTSP server running AOK no matter what the system has gone through
<nubae> for years I would have this issue where some people log on, yet others couldn't
<nubae> it wasnt fuze issue
<nubae> and it wasnt  a /home/dir ownershp problem either
<nubae> I must have pent man weeks after weeks trying to get olde users to log back in without aval.
<nubae> Adding a new one cause no issue so that puzzled me more
<nubae> Then tjere were cruptic X messages depending on the mood if the server
<nubae> lo and behold.... I did what I had been dreading for years... I cleaned the DB by hand, /etc/passwd open in one file, /etc/group in another and the gui in yet another
<alkisg> nubae: man pwck
<nubae> one would think that somehow a type of synchronsation would happen here
<nubae> well... there was none
<nubae> other than, if i save in group or passwd it would reflect in gui
<nubae> get gui then made everyone administrator and disabled options
<nubae> in other words the gui was no good only for changing passwords
<nubae> fortunately linux internal logic did not allow all uses to be sysadmins
<nubae> but conclusion: user and group gui is ver very srewed up
<nubae> i know w've been looking for agoodgui/user/group, is there reallt nothing better than this?
<nubae> btw tested on virgin system too
<triunity> Good morning
<triunity> I have a question, I am running edubuntu live, and testing out LTSP, I got everything working but when the Thin Client loads, it has nothing.  No way to access Programs, just a bar at the top, but none of those allow the student to get to applications
<triunity> I logged in using one of the LTSP users it had in the system...
<triunity> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?
<triunity> To test, i created a file on the desktop of the client, and put the word firefox inside.  Saved the file, marked it as executable, and then ran it.  It worked fine.  But the problem remains, that I dont want my students to need to create shell scripts to start firefox...
<triunity> ... is there anyone even here?
#edubuntu 2011-11-06
<thruxton> hi, is there a netbook edition of edubuntu?
<jbicha> thruxton: not really, what do you mean by netbook edition though?
<thruxton> jbicha: well I've installed edubuntu on my netbook and its unusable, the desktop is bigger than the screen, half the buttons in an app are out of sight, i thought maybe there was something tailored to small netbook screens
<thruxton> this even happened in the installer too
<alkisg> Which edubuntu version and which environment are you using? Unity, gnome-panel etc?
<alkisg> (classic gnome)
<thruxton> unity, with edubuntu-11.10-dvd-i386.iso
<alkisg> Maybe file a bug against unity then, mentioning your laptop resolution and maybe attaching a screenshot with the problems?
<thruxton> oh ok
<alkisg> And if you have a problem with ubiquity (the installer) too, there as well
<alkisg> What is it? 1024x600?
<thruxton> yes, 1024x576
<alkisg> Yeah a bug report is the best route for this. Maybe you'll even find an existing one, and put your own vote there.
<alkisg> bbl
<highvoltage> wow, we got 18 emails from the edubuntu webcontact form this week
<highvoltage> geez, every time I do Edubuntu wiki clean-up I think it's almost finished and then the next time I look at it I find another heap of horribly obsolete pages
<highvoltage> (probably deleted 20 of them today already)
<highvoltage> hmm, would be nice to get a more modern version of this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FloridaTeam/Marketing/Collateral?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=EdubuntuCommunity.otp
<stgraber> highvoltage: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/department/oneiric/6/
<mhall119> highvoltage: itnet7 uploaded that OTP file, he might be able to help with an update
<highvoltage> mhall119: oh cool
<highvoltage> mhall119: stgraber and I were talking about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/AppGuide before
<highvoltage> mhall119: I'm wondering if it's better linking to the apps.ubuntu.com pages instead, since the reviews/ratings there are probably a lot easier to contribute to
<highvoltage> (and also more useful since it's centralised)
<mhall119> highvoltage: probably, is the apps.ubuntu.com urls predictable?
<stgraber> mhall119: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/oneiric/<package name>/
<mhall119> ok, should be easy enough then
<mhall119> can you add comments through the web interface?
<mhall119> I was hoping that people would add to the wiki pages
<mhall119> but I don't think anybody ever did
#edubuntu 2012-10-30
<sunson> I followed https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients. I used to run thin clients. I built the fat client in /opt/ltsp/fat386 and modified /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf to use "/ltsp/fat386" instead of "/ltsp/i386". Now the fat clients show login screen but auth fails. In a flicker, the login screen reappears. how do I debug?
<sunson> I run edubuntu 11.04
<highvoltage> hey sunson
<highvoltage> sunson: it sounds like you need to do ltsp-update-sshkeys, I'm not sure if it's aware of other paths than /opt/ltsp/i386 and /opt/ltsp/amd64, you could perhaps check if it takes an argument for that
<highvoltage> sunson: (I can't check now because I'm in the middle of a few things)
<sunson> highvoltage: thanks. i ran itsp-update-sshkeys (without any args, right?) and it gave no output. not sure what it did. i tried running strace and gave up trying to parse the cryptic stuff that happened.
<sunson> s/itsp/ltsp/
<sunson> highvoltage: if I ran ltsp-update-sshkeys (without sudo) I see it complaining about not being able to remove /opt/ltsp/fat386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts. that means it does know about the new fat386 path.
<highvoltage> sunson: ah, indeed
<highvoltage> sunson: did you also run ltsp-update-image for that chroot afterwards?
<sunson> highvoltage: yes
<sunson> highvoltage: if I go into the chroot and do adduser, I should be able to ALT+F1 and login, right?
<sunson> (and of course, ltsp-update-image after the adduser)
<highvoltage> sunson: well, LDM authenticates against your server, not local accounts in the thin client
<highvoltage> sunson: if you add a local user in the thin client you'll just be able to log in on a VT
<highvoltage> (ah I think that's what you might have been asking)
<highvoltage> sunson: so... yes :)
<sunson> highvoltage: oh, so that's irrelevant?
<sunson> highvoltage: i mean, by adding user to chroot, i get no successful login from ldm?
<sunson> how does it actually work? is there a doc somewhere? I looked and looked.
<sunson> i got a faint picture that it uses sshfs. but would like to know more so that I can debug.
<highvoltage> sunson: that's correct, adding a local user won't let you log in via ldm
<highvoltage> sunson: ldm basically uses ssh to log in to the server
<highvoltage> sunson: you could log in with a local user on a client and type "ssh server". if it asks you to type "yes" then the ssh keys isn't in the client
<sunson> how does it know server? or where is that specified in the configs? I basically understand it starts off from tftp, dhcp, etc., but once the nbd root image is mounted, where is the context maintained?
<highvoltage> sunson: which is usually the #1 thing that goes wrong when the logins don't work. it's also possible that next-server might be wrong in your dhcpd.conf
<highvoltage> sunson: because then it would try to log in to the wrong server
<highvoltage> sunson: I don't have a link handy but there's an ltsp manual that contains more details on these things
<sunson> next-server is commented out in my dhcpd.conf
<sunson> is that bad?
<highvoltage> hmm, I thought that ldm used that to get the LTSP server, but I may be wrong.
<highvoltage> maybe hang around a bit for a 2nd opinion (or try it out) or check the manual, I have to go for now...
<sunson> highvoltage: ok. thanks for the help
<sunson> i tail'ed /var/log/auth.log and found that auth happens successfully, but then it says "Received disconnect from xx.xx.xx.xx: 11: disconnected by user"
<sunson> is there a limit to nbd image file size? I built a fat client. The image is ~774MB. I see a message in syslog "size of export file/device is 809943040" followed by a "Disconnect request received".
#edubuntu 2012-10-31
<alkisg> "[stgraber] Get some progress information into the langpack installer: TODO" ==> I thought supporting ssvnc fixed that part... what else remains?
<alkisg> Err sorry wrong copy/paste, here's the correct one:
<alkisg> [stgraber] nag alkis about epoptes that doesn't run on ARM: TODO
<alkisg> [alkisg] tablet/utouch integration for epoptes: TODO  ==> would need to boot ubuntu on zatab for that, or a nexus tablet... :(
<stgraber> alkisg: I need to check the whole vnc situation again, I vaguely remember ssvnc not being the best solution as it's currently pulling java and some other crap we'd rather not have on the tablet
<alkisg> stgraber: does the workaround I mentioned last in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/+bug/1072711 sound ok to commit?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1072711 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT causes firefox crashes" [Undecided,New]
<highvoltage> stgraber: did you have a chance to take that pic?
<stgraber> highvoltage: yep
<stgraber> alkisg: hackish but not a big deal on LTSP as nothing's persistent, so probably a reasonable temporary solution
<alkisg> stgraber: Will do, if you have someone you can ping about solving the nouveau bug please do so
<alkisg> stgraber: what does LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT actually do?
<alkisg> For remote clients, isn't software rendering always used?
<stgraber> nope, with that variable set, hardware rendering will be used for any software that's able to use indirect rendering
<alkisg> Even over the network? Sounds cool, although I've never seen it actually work...
<alkisg> (trying with glxgears for example)
<stgraber> yep, even over the network
<stgraber> I last tried by playing openarena over the network on my netbook and it worked fine, was getting 30-40FPS
<stgraber> highvoltage: http://www.stgraber.org/download/DSC05065.JPG
<highvoltage> merci
<highvoltage> stgraber: I complaied about the amazon stuff at the "Discussing PS-related product processes" session
<highvoltage> stgraber: feedback was quite ok, rickspencer3 said he'll do his best that something like that doesn't happen again
<stgraber> highvoltage: good
<highvoltage> stgraber: I added skaet to the edubuntu-website team, she's going to help us do interviews, documentation, etc
<vmlintu> how are things in the uds world?
<esmeralda> Hello
<esmeralda> I install edubuntu through Wubi on Windows 8
<esmeralda> It installed successfully
<esmeralda> But I couldn't connect to internet through ethernet, only wifi?
#edubuntu 2012-11-02
<bloodearnest> heya all - can anyone point me to high level overview of what edubuntu provides on top of ubuntu?
<bloodearnest> apart from tight LTSP integration, that is.
#edubuntu 2012-11-03
<jbicha_> stgraber: hey, Edubuntu has extra space on the images right?
<jbicha_> because I'm going to have gnome-session-fallback recommend gnome-user-guide since I'm "fixing" the help links in Nautilus & System Settings to point to gnome-help when run in "GNOME"
<jbicha_> unfortunately, we don't have a different environment variable for GNOME Classic from GNOME Shell but I guess someone could do some magic dbus sniffing or something if they cared
<jbicha_> oh, I guess it's only 1.5MB; I misread that as a lot higher number
<k4m3h4t3> somebody help. i have a problem about epoptes in edubuntu 12.04. how using epoptes
<k4m3h4t3> notice error user root must be a member of group epoptes to run epoptes
<k4m3h4t3> !ping
<ubottu> another contentless ping... sigh...
<k4m3h4t3> !epoptes
<k4m3h4t3> somebody help
<Tm_T> hullo
<Tm_T> I recall I volunteered to be in contact with upstream educational application projects like kde-edu regarding touchscreen-friendly development but I couldn't find that action item anymore, where's my failure? (:
<Tm_T> also hi the awesome team (:
<k4m3h4t3> somebody can help me
<k4m3h4t3> hi
#edubuntu 2013-10-29
<gassho> installing 13.10, installer has been frozen since i went to sleep :c
<highvoltage> gassho: what's the step it's showing in the status indicator? (the bottom part of the installation window)
<gassho> unpacking xorg
<gassho> installing .10 from .04
<gassho> as in 13.04 to 13.10
<gassho> i think ill just burn a .10 after backing up my 'important' files :B
<gassho> hellodubuntu :D also!  still frozen-like upgrader to .10 or as we like to call it, current
<gassho> which makes me wonder
#edubuntu 2013-10-30
<gassho> my updater for 13.10 failed what do i do
#edubuntu 2013-11-01
<jpg> \\quit
#edubuntu 2013-11-02
<heed> how do i upgrade 13.04 to 13.10
<heed> last time i tried the automatic script/whuteva it crashed my whole system ('-')
#edubuntu 2013-11-03
 * Paradox77 is now away - Reason : Auto-Away after 30 minutes
#edubuntu 2015-10-26
<limbe> hello,
<limbe> i have no pae unit as cleint , how can i use edubuntu 14.04
#edubuntu 2016-11-04
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [0.7.8-1-g3705bb5-0ubuntu1~16.04.3 => 0.7.8-34-ga1cdebd-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
<petr_> hello
<petr_> I have a question
<petr_> does anyone know about Edubuntu status?
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: iio-sensor-proxy (yakkety-proposed/universe) [1.3-1 => 1.3-1ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntugnome)
#edubuntu 2016-11-05
<highvoltage> pet<tab>
#edubuntu 2017-10-31
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 17.1-27-geb292c18-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~17.04.1 => 17.1-27-geb292c18-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (artful-proposed/main) [17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~17.10.1 => 17.1-27-geb292c18-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (artful-proposed/main) [2.0.7-0ubuntu5 => 2.0.8-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (xenial-proposed/main) [2.0.7-0ubuntu1~16.04.2 => 2.0.8-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: lxcfs (zesty-proposed/main) [2.0.7-0ubuntu1~17.04.2 => 2.0.8-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-11-01
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~16.04.1 => 17.1-27-geb292c18-0ubuntu1~16.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (zesty-proposed/main) [17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~17.04.1 => 17.1-27-geb292c18-0ubuntu1~17.04.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (artful-proposed/main) [17.1-25-g17a15f9e-0ubuntu1~17.10.1 => 17.1-27-geb292c18-0ubuntu1~17.10.1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-11-03
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: musescore [amd64] (bionic-proposed/universe) [2.1.0+dfsg1-1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2018-10-30
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: epoptes (disco-proposed/universe) [1.0.1-1 => 1.0.1-1build1] (edubuntu)
#edubuntu 2018-11-02
<UBUxUBU> why does the edubuntu page say edubuntu available in 14 04   when ur up to 18 04
#edubuntu 2018-11-03
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: python-gevent (disco-proposed/universe) [1.3.5-1 => 1.3.5-1build1] (edubuntu)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: python-apsw (disco-proposed/universe) [3.16.2-r1-2build3 => 3.16.2-r1-2build4] (edubuntu, ubuntustudio)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: python-regex (disco-proposed/universe) [0.1.20180609-1build1 => 0.1.20180609-1build2] (edubuntu, ubuntustudio)
#edubuntu 2019-11-01
<co1or> hello?
<co1or> i have a ques: did GNU/Linux make use of any Unix source code? or was it *100%* coded from scratch?
