#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-31
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: thanks for the updates to 4.8.1
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca and congrats on xubuntu lead
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> it was a formality to get finalized. Been here for while already
<davmor2> charlie-tca: :)  
<charlie-tca> ochosi: don't suppose gmusicbrowser can do the ubuntuone music store thing?
<ochosi> hm, no not currently
<ochosi> i could start to work on a plugin for that though
<charlie-tca> exaile can't either
<ochosi> but i don't think exaile cna
<ochosi> mhm
<charlie-tca> gotta hope, though, right?
<charlie-tca> I think we can switch, if mr_pouit is in agreement
<charlie-tca> it plays music, right?
<ochosi> hehe, yeah, it plays music
<ochosi> btw, knome and me started to work on an app comparison
<charlie-tca> of course, you do know the first and only thing I ever got to play my cd's was exaile, right?
<charlie-tca> I am all thumbs when it comes to that stuff
<knome> alpha1 desktop installation fails
<knome> "The following packages are in a broken state: libc6-dev, libc6"
<knome> then "Installer crashed"
<ochosi> hm, my natty install failed to boot today
<ochosi> i assume some nvidia proprietary driver prob
<ochosi> i have to say those are the days when i really really hate plymouth: when the xserver hangs at boottime i can't get to a tty
<knome> mh
<charlie-tca> try the daily instead of the alpha1, there are many changes 
<knome> there is no daily builds apart from powerpc
<charlie-tca> My natty installed is working fine.
<charlie-tca> are there builds from yesterday?
<knome> and a few days ago, there was only the alternate daily build for i386/a64
<charlie-tca> Most of the alpha1 issues have been fixed
<knome> no, there is no 'desktop' build
<knome> for xubuntu natty, at all
<charlie-tca> use these then - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20110130/
<knome> okay...
<knome> let's try one of those.
<charlie-tca> those are yesterday's natty xubuntu desktop builds
<knome> okay.
<ochosi> hm, not sure whether what i just started to write up matches what you'd expect in the design-category
<knome> hmm
<knome> like?
<ochosi> it's already there ;)
<knome> err
<knome> where
<ochosi> "Our target should be to have a player that is easy to use and enables the user to easily browse/manage his/her collection. As collections tend to become bigger and bigger with hdd-space becoming cheaper the player should be able to handle large libraries with grace and should help the user to organize it. "
<ochosi> (the wiki-page)
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> just wanted to be sure before i continue ;)
<ochosi> darn, i really have to save the wiki-page every few lines, it gets back at me with internal server errors almost always... :(
<knome> yup
<knome> i noticed that
<knome> probably a wiki error
<knome> but it does save the page
<knome> even with the error
<ochosi> myeah
<charlie-tca> I just hit reload when it does that, it comes back that you already saved the page
<charlie-tca> knome: you know we start alpha2 testing as soon as we get the new images, right?
<knome> charlie-tca, yeah
<ochosi> (i just realized when writing this now how superior gmb's search and filter system is)
<ochosi> knome: i wrote up a few things i consider important in the design section now, i think too much text isn't a good idea. maybe we should now compare the players according to that
<knome> yup
<knome> probably
<knome> just convert that to another table or so
<ochosi> but read up on it first ;)
<knome> just a sec
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> table sounds good
<ochosi> maybe a table and screenshots that illustrate our points
<ochosi> you still busy installing natty? ;p
<charlie-tca> do we expect streaming from the internet before april?
<ochosi> hm, not sure
<charlie-tca> It would be good to get some estimate of when it is expected, if possible. That seems to be a point for a lot of users.
<knome> busy with scheduling a meeting with a friend :|
<charlie-tca> We can put it in the release notes, if we switch players
<ochosi> mhm, yeah
<ochosi> charlie-tca: and the artwork-stuff should also go in there
<charlie-tca> what artwork stuff?
<charlie-tca> greybird is in now, isn't it?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: the issue the other day with thunar spawning is related to the usb drives. I haven't tried it with the bugfixes yet
<ochosi> well, the release notes should contain that we have: a new gtk-theme, an updated icon theme, a draft of a grub theme, new default panel layout, new default font (Droid) etc etc ;)
<charlie-tca> Oh, yeah. That will get in. I was thinking final release on the gmusicbrowser for streaming thing
<ochosi> oh sure
<ochosi> yeah, we should put that there too :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: but poke me about the alpha2 release notes if you need a list for the artwork-changes
<charlie-tca> yeah, but I won't put that in until the final release
<charlie-tca> Great! I can always extra eyes on what I write
<charlie-tca> It never says quite what I am thinking it should...
<ochosi> k, let's try to throw in more info this time ;)
<charlie-tca> knome: I did not run those images. Is it working?
<knome> charlie-tca, don't know yet. busy doing other things. will get back to you today
<ochosi> hm, i have to say i really don't know enough about exaile to fill out all the tables now
<charlie-tca> Okay, thanks. I do know they made a lot of changes in Ubuntu over the weekend, and that might be holding the images up
<ochosi> if any of you care to help out feel free
<ochosi> (design section: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Natty/DefaultMediaPlayer )
<charlie-tca> I didn't anything for 'plays my music, ogg, mp3, or cd' in there. 
<charlie-tca> ;-)
<ochosi> right :)
<charlie-tca> so much for me trying to fill in the blanks ;-)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, shoutcast browsing doesn't work *at* *all* in exaile for me
<charlie-tca> I don't know what that is, even 
<ochosi> shoutcast is webradio
<charlie-tca> but I did install gmusicbrowser in natty to try it out
<ochosi> from our ppa?
<charlie-tca> no, just the repository
<ochosi> oh...
<ochosi> that's not good :)
<charlie-tca> it won't play cd's?
<ochosi> the stable release is really really old
<ochosi> try this instead: https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ppa
<ochosi> no, but we have parole for that
<charlie-tca> I thought parole was for movies?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> plays any kind of media
 * charlie-tca feels really dumb now
<ochosi> i'd even argue that parole's interface is much nicer for playing cds than exaile/gmusicbrowser could be
<charlie-tca> oh, I think I said I don't know so much about these things... :-)
<ochosi> it's a different purpose somehow
<charlie-tca> exaile plays them, though
<ochosi> np ;)
<ochosi> yeah i know it does
<charlie-tca> I don't know how to make parole do that
<ochosi> i still don't think it's essential since we have parole
 * charlie-tca has visions of ochosi pulling out his hair now
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> no, i wouldn't do that, i *love* my hair ;)
<ochosi> step 1: insert audio-cd into drive
<ochosi> step 2: open parole
<ochosi> step 3: go to media > cdrom > audio cd
<ochosi> step 4: click that menu-item very hard
<ochosi> step 5: nothing more to do, parole already plays your cd
<ochosi> it's the procedure as in totem, vlc and the like
<charlie-tca> and close exaile...
<ochosi> yeah, exaile even has a bug with the cd-plugin that won't let you eject your cds anymore
<charlie-tca> huh, it worked
<charlie-tca> can't make any of those work, though
<ochosi> any of "those"?
<charlie-tca> totem, vlc, etc
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> hm, not sure about totem, but parole uses gstreamer as its backend (just like exaile)
<charlie-tca> I got vlc to play the dvd movies, somehow
<ochosi> in gmusicbrowser you can even select your favorite backend, but i guess we'll use gstreamer by default, since it's already installed for parole
<mr_pouit> etoomuchbacklog
<ochosi> hey mr_pouit ;)
<charlie-tca> yeah, we been busy, huh?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: have you used exaile much | do you know the programme?
<mr_pouit> yeah, a lot, I opened it a least twice when testing the new panel layout in virtualbox ;D
<mr_pouit> so, no :P
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> right
<charlie-tca> see, I know more than that! I got it to play cd's :-)
<ochosi> so i guess i'll have to start testing it myself now :|
<charlie-tca> gee, now I feel like an almost expert on it ;-)
 * charlie-tca confesses, it was SiDi that taught him how to play them
 * ochosi taught charlie-tca today how to play audio-cds with parole
<charlie-tca> heh, that's right
<charlie-tca> but it don't show the song names...
<mr_pouit> mmh, do you really want gmb for the alpha 2?
<charlie-tca> who, me? It's up to you, really
<mr_pouit> I'd rather push it after alpha 2
<mr_pouit> because we'll have to upload the new release first (as ochosi says the current one in natty sucks :p)
<mr_pouit> and it seems a bit short to me until thursday :P
<ochosi> yes, we have to use the one from the shimmer-ppa, otherwise it's not a very good decision
<mr_pouit> (also, exaile is the only thing pushing hal in the default install)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: so shall i continue to write that app-comparison or shall we close the subject now ;)
<knome> charlie-tca, did you think of revamping the strategy document?
<charlie-tca> that works for me
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ^^
<charlie-tca> knome: yes, I have thought about it, it is one of my goals to add how to select the lead
<charlie-tca> Other than that, when I asked for inputs, I got none
<knome> charlie-tca, do you think there could be discussion on some of the other things as well
<knome> charlie-tca, can't remember that, i've probably been quite busy back then
<mr_pouit> ochosi: charlie-tca: well, if everyone is for gmb, I guess it's settled, and you don't have to write more :p
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: let's wait though, as you said
<charlie-tca> alpha2 is got enough for now
<charlie-tca> ochosi: we can close the comparison as complete enough. 
<knome> charlie-tca, first of all, i suppose we do have to rethink the goals of the xubuntu project
<charlie-tca> knome: I will go further into it after the next two weeks
<ochosi> brb
<knome> charlie-tca, okay. will you still accept input then?
<charlie-tca> I don't the goals are going to change much
<charlie-tca> but, yes, I will open it for discussion then
<knome> charlie-tca, imo we can't both try to be as accessible as possible as well as trying to be low-mem system
<knome> charlie-tca, which is what the current document pretty much states
<knome> charlie-tca, that's one thing that just has to change in order to make the document helpful for USERS and for developers thinking about users
<knome> charlie-tca, and as you know, i was and i still am against the PL having the veto vote. that's a thing i think would make the document helpful for DEVELOPERS and for developers interacting
<knome> charlie-tca, s/veto vote/casting vote/, whatever
<ochosi> k, i'm back
<ochosi> mr_pouit, charlie-tca: mkay, thanks for saving me the work :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: about the SD, i think it's important that all team members are equal and that there is no veto. i think it's very important for a team to be able to reach a consensus or to make compromises, otherwise it doesn't function well
<charlie-tca> It is also very important to never allow the team to lock into a debate without end
<ochosi> i don't think having a leader-veto is a good way to resolve "a debate without end"
<knome> the SD is actually contrary to itself
<ochosi> i think a vote is lote better
<knome> on the PL section, it says:
<knome> It is understood that the divisive use of the project leads authority could weaken the project. For that reason the authority is used carefully, ...
<knome> of course, if you have a bad leader who abuses his powers and does want to vote against others, he won't use the authority carefully
<charlie-tca> and he won't be there long, since the community council can intervene
<charlie-tca> and with that, when this opened for discussion , I will be looking forward to your inputs
<charlie-tca> installed gmusicbrowser from shimmer ppa
<knome> it takes time for the CC to intervene. seriously, it can start with small things that do not matter much but end messy. and lots of small things can make the dev team break
<knome> charlie-tca, thanks for considering anyway
<charlie-tca> you are welcome, I do try to keep an open mind. I am not a dictator, that is taken already.
<knome> charlie-tca, i definitely think that the PL should have a good view on what's happening on the project and where it should aim towards, but i don't think it means that the PL should have any kind of casting vote and definitely not a veto vote to do a decision against all of the others developers
<knome> charlie-tca, i agree, you're not a dictator. but when people do agree about things they really care about and have been cherishing.. it can get messy even if one wasn't a dictator ;)
<ochosi> hm, the current team situation (even if there hardly is an official team) is quite good
<charlie-tca> hm, okay, I got this thing in here, and I got a bunch of songs in it from my other drive, now how do I make it play?
<knome> press the play button? :D
<ochosi> or double-click a song?
<charlie-tca> what does it look like?
<knome> arrow right
<knome> it's on the left top corner
<knome> next to "prev" and "next" buttons
<charlie-tca> lol, I ain't really too good at this, remember? ;-)
<charlie-tca> the triagle on it's side, right>?
<knome> yep
<knome> well you can't break your system by pressing a button in gmb... ;]
<charlie-tca> huh, it plays
<ochosi> hehe
<charlie-tca> well, that's enough music for now, I guess. 
<charlie-tca> okay, I tested it
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> It is quite different from what is in the repository, you are right
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i will spend the energy i saved on not continuing the app-comparison on improving the shimmer-gmb project page
<ochosi> so that people will get a better impression of it
<ochosi> charlie-tca: well, i modified it, i should know it's different :D
<charlie-tca> good idea
<charlie-tca> We will announce it for alpha3, down the road...
<charlie-tca> well, except I announce things on identi.ca as we put them out for the public 
<charlie-tca> I still need someone to blog about us weekly!
<ochosi> yeah, that would be important
<ochosi> having the website support blogs would be great
<ochosi> i mean: syndicating blogs like a planet
<charlie-tca> we don't have anyone that blogs regularly enough to keep a website blog going. the planet already syndicates them, but if no one does the writing, ...
<ochosi> true
 * micahg wants to start a blog
<micahg> charlie-tca: BTW, Thunderbird locales 3.1.7 in natty :)
<charlie-tca> The idea of saying we have it is great! I just don't think it is worth it if no one is writing anything
<mr_pouit> ochosi: after alpha 2, if gmb in natty doesn't look as good as on your screenshots, I'll sue you :P
<ochosi> mr_pouit: harhar
<ochosi> mr_pouit: as long as you use the package from our repo everything will be dandy
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: it plays, at least
<ochosi> charlie-tca: lol
<mr_pouit> ochosi: write that on my todo list, and it'll be fine ;>
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hehe, i love *your* todo-list
<charlie-tca> hm, no wonder hibernate is giving so many bugs now... "It was removed from the dernel completely... "
<ochosi> woot?
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> that's what I thought. I think it is a discussion on natty
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hm, i was wondering whether we can un-brand some of our default apps and make them use generic app icons instead?
<ochosi> i know that certain apps have strong branding (ff, tb)
<ochosi> but using a simple "email" icon in the launcher-panel would make a lot more sense to me
<ochosi> how should a new user know what that birdy means?
<ochosi> a better example is maybe ristretto
<ochosi> how should a new user know what that coffee-mug or the name means?
<mr_pouit> I'm not even sure that's allowed for tb and fx ;>
<knome> charlie-tca, i do write pretty constantly :P
<ochosi> mr_pouit: well, we'd have to use icedove ;)
<ochosi> but anyway, for stuff like ristretto, gmusicbrowser etc it would be cool imo
<knome> i agree with general application/concept icons
<knome> mail for mail
<mr_pouit> the easy solution is with the icon theme
<knome> mr_pouit, is it ok to use a mail icon for TB?
<knome> i mean, isn't that the point of "different" applications
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah probably
<mr_pouit> for tb and fx, you better ask micahg ;P
<knome> or is it just that some people are so afraid of seeing any branding anywhere?
<mr_pouit> ochosi: it's the simplest one, so we don't touch the desktop files :)
<knome> micahg, if you want to start a blog, why don
<knome> ...'t you do that?
<micahg> ochosi: why would you want to unbrand some of the most popular open source apps?
<knome> micahg, if you have hosting, it's as simple as setting up WP and start writing; if not, then just register an account at wordpress.com
<knome> (there was probably some subjectivity added in the previous message)
<micahg> knome: I will, I'm limited on time ATM, but that will change shortly
<knome> good :)
<ochosi> micahg: i know the thought hurts but i don't care what the app-icon of the app that manages my mail looks like
<ochosi> micahg: but i know that ff and tb are a sensitive topic
<ochosi> micahg: why not start with the other apps? :)
<knome> micahg, "mail" is still a better thought for mail than "thunderbird"
<micahg> ochosi: yes, but it make Xubuntu less relavent if it has foo mail vs Thunderbird
<knome> micahg, a lot of people who i know and use TB, for example, don't know it's called "thunderbird"
<knome> micahg, why is it less relevant while the app can still say thunderbird in it's titlebar, and the icon hover can say "Mail<br />Mozilla Thunderbird"?
<ochosi> micahg: how is thunderbird coupled with xubuntu being "relevant"?
<micahg> knome: it makes it less familiar, when you list Thunderbird in the default apps, right away you have an edge over Ubuntu w/Evo as teh default
 * micahg will have to continue this later
<ochosi> micahg: np, i'm always willing to discuss this
<knome> i can see how it can affect some people who are 'used' to the TB/FF branding, but on the other hand, it's like streching your hand out to catch those who are still not yet 'in'
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> accessibility also means things like being easy for people who have never used a computer
<ochosi> i just don't really get why my image-viewer's icon should be a coffee-mug
<charlie-tca> relaxation
<ochosi> ?
<charlie-tca> coffee goes with "sit back, relax, enjoy the coffee and images
<ochosi> hmm, i still think i can make an image-viewer icon that is more descriptive than a mug of coffee
<knome> image-viewer for me is relaxation
<ochosi> and: i don't assiociate drinking ristretto with sitting down ;)
<knome> for me it's "start looking at the pictures and select the best for your clients website"
<charlie-tca> In America it is coffee, in UK it is tea, etc
<ochosi> ristretto != coffee
<ochosi> ;)
<charlie-tca> it isn't so much thinking of an image viewer as it is relaxation at that time
<mr_pouit> often, people have a better memory for the icons than the app names
<ochosi> ok, well given you have that association, say you want to view your images, would you really click a coffee-mug first?
<charlie-tca> true. I am an exception, since I don't see the icons
<charlie-tca> ochosi: as much as I would want to click on something called "ristretto" to see them, yes
<ochosi> hm, no renaming the apps is really not my point, they can keep their names, but the icons could be more generic
<charlie-tca> On the other hand, it drives me nuts to click on "movie player" when it crashes. I don't really know what crashed by the name
<knome> like the icons, the desktop icon titles probably should be more relevant
<knome> charlie-tca, what about "App name (App usage)" or "App usage (App name)"
<knome> brb
<charlie-tca> I think it would be great to have "what it is - app name"
<charlie-tca> like "movie player - totem"
<charlie-tca> Music player - exaile
<ochosi> s/exaile/gmusicbrowser ;)
<charlie-tca> because the names certainly do nothing to inspire a reason to open the app
<ochosi> yep
<charlie-tca> who in their right mind would open "parole" to see a movie instead of looking for jails/prisons/convicts, in the USA, at least.
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well, even the icon for parole could be a little less fugly
<charlie-tca> even "aumix" does not make me want to see what it is... :-)
 * charlie-tca is using icons more in natty, since he has a launcher panel now
<ochosi> yeah, don't really know why we have aumix installed... mr_pouit ^
<ochosi> charlie-tca: good to hear. i also use the launcher panel a lot when i'm in natty
<ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, are you on an up-to-date natty?
<charlie-tca> it kind of makes me think of an equalizer... Awe, mix it
<mr_pouit> it's a recommends of xfce4-settings iirc
<ochosi> don't think it's used anywhere
<mr_pouit> it should be hidden in xubuntu anyway, but there's a bug in garcon, which prevents that
<charlie-tca> yeah, I think it goes with the mixer
<charlie-tca> ochosi: yes, I run an up-to-date natty
<ochosi> mr_pouit: wasn't aumix used for default volume keyboard shortcuts in xfce4.6?
<mr_pouit> yes, sort of
<ochosi> charlie-tca: would you mind posting a screener, just curious to see what it looks like on other peoples screens and whether there's anything i want/have to fix visually
<ochosi> mr_pouit: btw, getting rid of hal sounds *really* good to my ears
<charlie-tca> sure, I can do that
<charlie-tca> I would be happy with apps that upstream supports. 
<charlie-tca> thunderbird, firefox or midori, etc
<mr_pouit> ah, I found http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/01/install-xfce-4-8-in-ubuntu-10-10-ppa/ by accident
<mr_pouit> it's probably not worth backporting then
<charlie-tca> There seems to be two different ppa's now. One for lucid and one for maverick
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i read that in lucid only 32bit is supported
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'm weary of random 3rd party PPAs
<ochosi> but yeah, i'd say save yourself the work
<mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, but from my experience, Users can't wait, they don't care whether it's from the xubuntu team or not, and the versions in backport would be lower than the ones from these ppas
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/01/xfce-48-ubuntu-1004-and-1010-ppas.html
<charlie-tca> If they look okay, let's go ahead and give them out when asked about it?
<mr_pouit> micahg: and fwiw, (s)he took the natty packages, and did s/natty/maverick/ apparently, because the latest changelog entry is still from me :}
<micahg> mr_pouit: right, but there's no guarantee it'll stay that way, that's the problem with 3rd party repos
<charlie-tca> but the way the backport for 4.6 went, this might be a good thing!
<micahg> neither is an Ubuntu dev, so I don't trust their PPAs
<mr_pouit> anyway, I don't intend to review/recommend this ppa (not enough time)
<micahg> mr_pouit: are either an upstream xfce dev?  (that's my otehr criteria for trustworthiness)
<mr_pouit> afaik no
<mr_pouit> they are mostly on archlinux and lunar :P
<knome> charlie-tca, i'm having problems even entering the graphical installator/livecd with the .iso from yesterday
<mr_pouit> try the current one, it should work
<charlie-tca> hm, then it is broken again. They said the ubuntu installer was
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: no images today
<knome> mr_pouit, there is only powerpc builds
<knome> mr_pouit, " :] "
<mr_pouit> mmh, I downloaded some a few hours ago
<knome> link plz
<mr_pouit> okay, they disappeared again
<knome> :P
<knome> any *desktop* iso from 11.04?
<knome> alternate... well, that's the last resort
<mr_pouit> (because they contained xfdesktop 4.8.1, so they were from today)
<knome> D/Lding 20110130 daily alternate amd64
<knome> if that doesn't work, it's a "notworksforme"
<charlie-tca> ochosi: http://imagebin.org/135444
<ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks, looks ok!
<charlie-tca> ochosi: another user on natty - http://i.imgur.com/1n5nH.png
<charlie-tca> closer to defaults for the top panel, at least
<ochosi> ah great
<ochosi> yeah, looks good
<charlie-tca> I guess mine is a little bit different ;-)
<ochosi> sure ;) but tbh i think the theme still works
<charlie-tca> I have to have my clocks, too
<charlie-tca> from #ubuntu+1:
<charlie-tca> <nekoCAT> I would like to compliment the Xubuntu team for their work on Natty so far.  The new theme looks great and the panel configuration is a nice change from the psuedo-gnome look it had before.
<knome> charlie-tca, the alternate image let me install xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> there is hope then ;-)
<knome> apparently not. won't let me in login screne.
<knome> *screen
<charlie-tca> it gives you the screen?
<knome> the black screen
<charlie-tca> wait
<charlie-tca> wait
<charlie-tca> wait a long time
<knome> for the first time or every time?
<charlie-tca> if that don't work, turn off "quiet splash" in the grub
<charlie-tca> first time
<knome> okay
<charlie-tca> mine took about three minutes when they moved the -38 kernel in
<knome> crap.
<charlie-tca> I think that is part of what they are trying to fix on the images
<knome> disabling quiet splash gives me... black screen
<knome> so i probably should just wait anyway
<charlie-tca> check the ctrl+Alt+f?? to see if it came up on the wrong tty too. I had one boot to f8, and f7 was showing. 
<knome> well, i'm on vbox and host+f7 is not giving anything
<knome> (which should be the same as c+a+f7
<charlie-tca> anything on host+F8 or F9?
<knome> even tty1 doesn't show anything but black screen
<charlie-tca> 32 or 64 bit?
<knome> 64
<charlie-tca> hm, my VBox in natty hates me today
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> it is the new kernel, I think. VBox won't work in the -38 kernel yet
<micahg> charlie-tca: which version of Vbox?
<charlie-tca> 4.0 from the website
<micahg> charlie-tca: 4.0.2 is out
<knome> my vbox is 3.2.12
<micahg> it's in natty as well
<charlie-tca> that's the3 one that kicked
<charlie-tca> "Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 2.6.38-1-generic (x86_64"
<charlie-tca> shows /var/lib/dkms/vboxhost/4.0.2/build/
<charlie-tca> lloking in the install log
<knome> mmh
<charlie-tca> kernel error, things don't match up yet
<micahg> charlie-tca: http://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/8143
<charlie-tca> it's close. source of 2l6.28-rc2 does not match current kernel 2.6.38-1-generic
<charlie-tca> this is bad, with alpha2 testing this week and lucid next week
<micahg> charlie-tca: talk to debfx, maybe he can cherry pick the fix
<mr_pouit> there's 4.0.2 in natty, it should build fine (from looking at the changelog)
<charlie-tca> it doesn't with the new kernel
<charlie-tca> Maybe I can remove and reinstall. Sometimes that works
<mr_pouit> ah, I didn't try on amd64, sorry
<mr_pouit> (only i386)
<charlie-tca> failed hard here on amd64
<charlie-tca> Got my first garcon bug going upstream, if it isn't in Ubuntu too
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: back to starting without xfwm4
<charlie-tca> I have to use Alt+F2 and run xfwm4 &  every boot
<charlie-tca> (natty 64bit
<charlie-tca> ) :-(
<charlie-tca> remove and re-install vbox 4.0.02 failed too
<charlie-tca> \o/ first bug upstreamed against garcon!
<ochosi> night everyone
<charlie-tca> good night
<charlie-tca> hm, no one is properly excited about the bug, huh ;-)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-01
<knome> charlie-tca, any possibilities fighting spam on identi.ca? http://identi.ca/nelsonballard4166 is producing a lot of cruft
<charlie-tca> just block that person
<charlie-tca> knome: click on the name, it takes you to their profile. Now click on "Block", then Yes at the bottom
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: well, I'm not sure it it's a bug in garcon after all. I think the spec is like that ;-)
<knome> charlie-tca, i'm not on identi.ca. i'd like to actually fight against the spam, not just ignore it. it's a problem if anybody wants to follow the identi.ca rss/atom feed
<knome> charlie-tca, this only not makes it impossible to follow if you're not on identi.ca but also renders any website that's aggregating that feed less relevant
<knome> charlie-tca, and since it seems to be only one user in the #xubuntu tag...
<knome> charlie-tca, all his messages come from the api, and they all link to some user profiles on various forums and such. that can't be waterproof.
<knome> anyway, go to RUN
<knome> see you later
<ochosi> i've made another iteration of the panel layout etc, this time including a preview of how more "default" looking icons would look there: http://wiki.knome.fi/_detail/shimmer:panel_it4.png?id=shimmer%3Axfce-panel
<ochosi> s/default/generic
<ochosi> note: gimp would/could also be replaced by a more generic "painting" icon
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: that double entry doesn't exist outside of xfce, even though gnumeric uses the same .desktop file 
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: mmh, have you tested with another desktop environment?
<charlie-tca> gnome in ubuntu
<charlie-tca> I got the office entry, but not the science entry
<mr_pouit> grmbl, then gnome isn't following the xdg spec
<charlie-tca> what a surprise :-(
<charlie-tca> so, back to gnumeric for a fix on it?
<mr_pouit> maybe, although their .desktop is perfectly fine (its an office & science app, I agree with that)
<charlie-tca> okay, I can upstream it there too. It's really just an annoyance to have it in two places.
<mr_pouit> many programs are like that, and that's not new (it has been like that in the previous releases too)
<charlie-tca> 10.04 only had one entry
<mr_pouit> yeah, it's xfce 4.4.x, not fully xdg compliant (not at all for menu files)
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> hm, and the good news for the day. Alpha2 is due thursday, images are broken by X
<mr_pouit> well, I can edit the xubuntu menu file to be exclusive, so we don't get two entries for the same app
<charlie-tca> Do we need to?
<charlie-tca> It isn't like it is a bad thing to have them, really
<mr_pouit> It's better than asking gnumeric's upstream ot change something that is correct ;-)
<mr_pouit> but yeah, it's a matter of preferences
<mr_pouit> I can easily change that in the menu, so we can decide what we prefer anyway
<charlie-tca> oh, okay. I didn't go upstream there yet. 
<ochosi> i think doing the change downstream for stuff like this is better
<ochosi> it's just our preference, so we should change it
<charlie-tca> I will talk to them on irc before I send the bug to them
<charlie-tca> but not today. Today I broke my system with the updates, VBox won't work for me, and we start testing as soon as they fix X
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: we can either change the file or mark the bug wishlist
<ochosi> i made a draft for a few default apps in xubuntu that could use icon improvements, it's all wip but you can see it here: http://wiki.knome.fi/shimmer:xubuntu_generic_app_icons
<ochosi> it's what we talked about wrt more generic app icons
<charlie-tca> we didn't decide on anything, though
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> of course not
<charlie-tca> I am not sure replacing what is used linux wide for an app is a good idea
<ochosi> but i want to illustrate my point
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i would *only* replace the launchers in the launcer-panel, not in the menu
<charlie-tca> Isn't that confusing. If I look in the menu, I see an icon. If I look at the launchers, it isn't there?
<charlie-tca> I have to remember the icon changed ?
<ochosi> not sure, we'll have to think about it a while
<charlie-tca> xubuntu images are ready for alpha2 testing
<j1mc> charlie-tca: can we test in a vm?
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> xubuntu is good in a vm
<j1mc> probably one of the few remaining desktops that can be testing in a vm. :) i'll go ahead and give it a try.
<j1mc> ... i suppose kde can still probably be tested in a vm, though.
<charlie-tca> thanks, j1mc. 
<charlie-tca> ochosi: we need to unhide the bottom panel. It is only found by those who hit it by mistake
<charlie-tca> j1mc: are you testing the desktop image?
<charlie-tca> Want to know if you hit bug 711571 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711571 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) ""Reboot" and "Shut down" do not work from live session desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711571
<knome> charlie-tca, should the alpha2 images work in vbox 3.2.x?
<charlie-tca> I don't think so
<charlie-tca> but I could be wrong
<knome> right. that makes testing harder than it should be for many.
<j1mc> charlie-tca: sorry, i'm just doing the alternate
<charlie-tca> okay
<knome> do you think there could be more resources put in getting the new alphas working with older vbox versions?
<charlie-tca> knome: yes, it does, but so does the fact they just upgraded the xserver and nvidia-current is dead
<knome> probably *ubuntu*-wide...
<charlie-tca> I don't think that would be a wise use of resources, since the priority is getting natty working
<charlie-tca> If it fails in older virtual machines, well, ...
<knome> yeah well, less people to test it (at least less people that are not used to testing and/or 'cutting edge' bugs), less bugs found...
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-02
<j1mc> is it possible to test the live cd via kvm/qemu?
<charlie-tca> Got to apply the limited resources and manpower available to get the release out
<j1mc> or do you need virtualbox or something?
<charlie-tca> j1mc: to the best of my knowledge, yes, as long it is not Ubuntu
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu requires 3d, so it is more limited
<j1mc> thanks, charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> ochosi: or did I forget a conversation about the hidden panel, and I will put it in the release notes that we did that?
<charlie-tca> I really like the way it looks, with that hidden
<charlie-tca> cpu graph in the top panel has background to match the panel, it looks like white dotted lines going across
<charlie-tca> ochosi: screenshot of top panel with cpu graph in natty alpha2 installed - http://imagebin.org/135682
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, ochosi : are we really using the gnome quit thing now? Where is our quit button?
<charlie-tca> I hate that timer thing in Ubuntu, and I don't want it in Xubuntu, please
<charlie-tca> I don't need a timer to count or an extra screen asking if I am sure. I hit the damn button. shut it down
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, Are you talking about the shut down button? If so, I strongly disagree since Xubuntu doesn't do the best job waiting for things like gedit to ask you if you want to save your work.
<charlie-tca> We do need to copy Ubuntu on the panels, or on the shutdown process. 
<charlie-tca> yes, cody-somerville 
<cody-somerville> Also, clicking it by mistake is a pain
<charlie-tca> natty alpha2 has it exactly as Ubuntu Lucid had it. Name instead of button, count down timer waiting to verify
<cody-somerville> ah, I think I understand what you mean now.
<charlie-tca> You already had the button, click shutdown, got a screen with 5 buttons in it, pick one
 * cody-somerville nods.
<cody-somerville> Yea, I agree with you :)
<charlie-tca> I am not following Ubuntu nonsense on it
<cody-somerville> +1
<cody-somerville> we're not planning to put the cpu graph in the panel though are we?
<charlie-tca> 0.
<charlie-tca> IT is there now. Ochosi is making changes without discussion, sometimes, I think
<charlie-tca> I actually thought it was the network trying to connect
<charlie-tca> and, I don't really need my name in the panel. I know who I am
<cody-somerville> There is no real good way to know who you're logged in as though
<cody-somerville> what else does the name thing do?
<charlie-tca> by the way. Gedit won't let natty shutdown if it is open
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, It appears that it was mr_pouit who added the cpugraph.
<charlie-tca> It has the "suspend, hibernate, restart, shutdown"
<charlie-tca> I don't really know what is there. I was kind of pissed to see it
<cody-somerville> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/246
<charlie-tca> well, if the graph is there, it needs the background changed to not be transparent
<charlie-tca> When the cpu is 0%, it doesn't show at all
<cody-somerville> It should probably just be removed from the default.
<cody-somerville> CPU monitor doesn't really fit the general use case
<cody-somerville> and will cause polling so will eat up battery and cpu
<charlie-tca> true. It might be a "let's see how it works" thing, though
<charlie-tca> I have walked away and left the computer sitting on several times because of the button in Ubuntu now. 
<mr_pouit> it's not the ubuntu shutdown menu, it's the plugin from xfce4-session
<mr_pouit> and I added cpugraph because it was in the panel layout proposed by ochosi, which was freely available on the shimmer wiki since the beginning, and the link has been given on the ml several times as well.
<mr_pouit> so it was easy to say it if you did not agree with it, instead of following cody is his "oh noes they do changes behind my back" thing
<cody-somerville> I think you misinterpret my tone. I was similar telling charlie-tca who made the change :P
<cody-somerville> s/similar/simply
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: don't believe I did anything like "they do chages behind my back". I even came back on the hidden panel to ask if we talked about it.
<charlie-tca> However, shimmer is a separate project from Xubuntu. I don't go to the mozilla site to see what they did either
<charlie-tca> Why did my installation keep the old shutdown action if this is the new behavior for Xfce?
<charlie-tca> Are you telling me if someone does a new installation on one system and an upgrade on the other, they get two different gui's now
<knome> charlie-tca, if you think any kind of cooperation between two projects (including looking at the other projects' website) is impossiable, i think we have to stop contributing then
<charlie-tca> knome: I did not say that. Please don't start changing my words again
<knome> no, seriously, i think it is childish from you to say you won't check what mozilla did either. you know very well we're working on the panel stuff. you could have asked what changes we made. it is not nice to say from you to cody (who still seems to have a strong place in the project saying what should be changed) that somebody is changing stuff behind your back. because that was exactly what i think it was.
<knome> if it was not "behind my back", then i do have to say i think it's too much constant micromanagement.
<charlie-tca> knome: do you even know what you are talking about? I have been running greybird for over a month. I should have seen any changes to it 
<charlie-tca> As to what sights to check, I do not check any of the upstream sites of applications for changes. Shimmer is not a Xubuntu project site. You told me that,.
<knome> yes. i know you're talking about changes you didn't see, but this also relates to the conversation earlier.
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville has more place in this project than you do, so don't start that again, either
<knome> excuse me?
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville has more place in this project than you do, so don't start that again, either
<cody-somerville> It seems like things are getting a little heated. I think we all have good intentions so lets take a deep breath. :)
<charlie-tca> You are right, of course.
<charlie-tca> thank you
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: what "old shutdown action"?
<mr_pouit> and anyway, it has always been like that, we don't force any change to upgraded systems
<charlie-tca> My upgraded installation has the shutdown button, no name, and when clicked, gives me the 5-box window
<mr_pouit> yeah, that's normal
<charlie-tca> The new alpha2 gives me a name in the panel, click shutdown under that name, it gives me a 30-second countdown timer
<mr_pouit> they are two different plugins
<charlie-tca> That's my point. They are very different
<charlie-tca> Will they become the same one at some point before release?
<mr_pouit> no
<charlie-tca> Okay, will we put the old one back in instead of the timer thing?
<charlie-tca> Oh, maybe you already ansered that, if they won't become the same... 
<charlie-tca> I really do not like the timer, in case I did not say that.
<mr_pouit> we can discuss about that on the ml or during a meeting. You're the leader anyway, so you can veto and choose to revert even if everyone is to use the new one.
<charlie-tca> I told you before I won't do that. If this is a good thing, much as I hate it, I will more deeply look at it
<charlie-tca> If that is the future of Xfce, so be it. I do not want us behind the rest, for the sake of what I prefer.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Have you seen bug 711571?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 711571 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) ""Reboot" and "Shut down" do not work from live session desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711571
<charlie-tca> gives error and logs out in VBox, gives errors and works in hardware
<mr_pouit> yeah, I've already a fix for the misleading error box
<charlie-tca> oh, and what do I install to change my upgraded system to that new plugin?
<mr_pouit> (not uploaded yet)
<mr_pouit> and I reproduced this bug in VBox, but I don't know why it does that
<mr_pouit> it seems xfce4-session is killed before it can finish its job
<charlie-tca> Will release note it then, to keep users informed
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: add the plugin called "Session Menu" to the panel
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I will apologize for my tone on finding this thing. I really don't like the timer.
<mr_pouit> 15:05  charlie-tca: However, shimmer is a separate project from Xubuntu. I don't go to the mozilla site to see what they did either <<<< just to react about that: the link to the future panel layout was given during a meeting (2011-01-06 I'd say), and hasn't changed since that time...
<charlie-tca> then I missed the change. You know I added the new panels from ochosi a while back, and upgraded a couple of times when told it changed
<charlie-tca> I didn't see it in the maverick screenshots, either.
<charlie-tca> As for the hidden, I caught myself on that one. I don't know if we discussed that, and can use some advice on it
<charlie-tca> I seem to have picked up the rest of the changes, just the new "name in the panel" thing I missed.
<charlie-tca> and, I apologize if it sounded like I was doing that "behind my back" thing, too. I never intended to come across with that. 
<charlie-tca> I need to apologize to ochosi for that, too, if that is what is was.
<charlie-tca> I thought we were discussing things that will change quite openly, here and in meetings. 
<ochosi> ok, i missed quite a bit here
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i don't really know where to pick up this discussion, but wrt the panels, i always had the feeling that these processes were entirely transparent
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i documented all the steps in the wiki and before anything was changed (as you know i myself can't change anything) it was discussed
<ochosi> charlie-tca: and it would be nicer not to be accused of "doing stuff behind other peoples backs"
<ochosi> charlie-tca: not getting too much into the emotional stuff from before, ihave to say that i have no clue what cody-somerville's role in xubuntu is (and this is not a rhetorical question, it's a real question)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: but the apology is accepted of course, no hard feelings
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I will have to try harder not to accuse people of "doing stuff behind other peoples backs" myself. 
<charlie-tca> I think the process is very open. But that doesn't mean I don't forget things, too. I need to be reminded sometimes of what we discuss. 
<ochosi> sure, no problem with that
<ochosi> and if you forget why we went a certain direction we can always talk about it
<charlie-tca> yes. I do get frustrated when I see something I greatly dislike, that is a fault of mine.
<ochosi> btw, i don't think our cooperation is really comparable with mozilla or any other upstream project
<charlie-tca> and why I never saw the name in the panel, I don't know. I looked at a lot of screenshots, and it just never registered in my brain
<ochosi> because you simply get what mozilla does, we propose stuff we do to you
<ochosi> and everything is up for discussion
<charlie-tca> I got asked not to discuss xubuntu in shimmer once before, so I do not think telling me to go there is ever going to work.
<ochosi> well, i understand you and knome have your history, i really don't want to get mixed up with that too much
<charlie-tca> I do grab the updates, but my quit button never seemed to change
<ochosi> i'm always in this channel here as well
<charlie-tca> Yeah, there is a reason I don't want to try to discuss stuff there, as you know. 
<ochosi> and we put all the xubuntu-related stuff in one page, so it's easier to find: http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:start
<charlie-tca> I appreciate your discussing here and in meetings. that works
<ochosi> np
<charlie-tca> And, I really the work you have put into greybird. I still think it is a really good theme!
<ochosi> thanks, i'm generally happy with the way we cooperate
<charlie-tca> and you see my comment to mr_pouit above... If this is the new direction of Xfce, with the countdown timer, we will use it, as much as I dislike it
<ochosi> yeah, i really don't know why they decided to go that way...
<charlie-tca> me neither, but I added the session menu to my panel anyway, so I can be in sync there. 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i'd really like to know though what cody-somerville's role in xubuntu is
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, I'm the former project leader.
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville is a former Project Lead, a member of the xubuntu team, and a member of the Xubuntu develpment team
<cody-somerville> err
<cody-somerville> ochosi, ^^
<ochosi> oh, didn't know you were on the team cody-somerville 
<cody-somerville> I'm also a Ubuntu Core Developer.
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> so what do you currently do in xubuntu?
<ochosi> (apart from stirring up emotions :) )
<charlie-tca> I would also welcome inputs from Jani, if he chose to be here, being the original developer of Xubuntu
<cody-somerville> So getting caught up on the discussion here...
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> cody-somerville: no i meant what you do in the xubuntu project, as in: packaging etc.
<charlie-tca> ochosi: adviser to the project lead :-)
<ochosi> ah i see
<cody-somerville> I personally feel charlie-tca didn't intend the 'doing stuff behind other people's back' in the way it came across. I know charlie-tca assumes good faith.
<ochosi> sure, no that's already forgotten
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville also does occasional packaging, bug fixing, and testing
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: this is not the new "direction" of Xfce: this is only a plugin, made by the (previous) maintainer of xfce4-session. The panel developer would've preferred to have only the actions plugin as before
<charlie-tca> oh
<charlie-tca> Thank you for the information. 
<TheSheep> I always have the vague feeling that I'm only seeing scraps and bits of a discussion in here, not a complete conversation. I always lack the context.
<ochosi> TheSheep: where can i fill you in?
<charlie-tca> heh
<TheSheep> ochosi: don't mind me, not worth wasting time, I don't do anything
<ochosi> TheSheep: you just did something, i read it :)
<TheSheep> ochosi: sorry, I will think more next time
<charlie-tca> oh, and maybe I need to add, Not everything is related to being Project Lead. I am also the primary tester of Xubuntu, and comments apply as the testing lead sometimes, not as Project Leader
<ochosi> TheSheep: awwh, this channel is so quiet anyways...
<ochosi> charlie-tca: not sure if that makes a big difference to me
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> :)
<TheSheep> ochosi: to me it's a good sign: the people are working in accord :P
<charlie-tca> I guess perception is 99%, huh?
<ochosi> TheSheep: lol
<charlie-tca> ochosi: TheSheep is THE person for irc, and moinmoin issues. Also, one of the best helpers we got in #xubuntu
<ochosi> charlie-tca: right, i knew he was doing *something*
<charlie-tca> I think he solves more issues live than I look at bugs, sometimes
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I don't honest questions here. I will not tolerate direct/indirect attacks on anyone, though.
<charlie-tca> well, that ain't worded right
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I don't mind honest questions here. I or we will do our best to answer them. I will not tolerate direct or indirect attacks on anyone, though.
 * cody-somerville gives everyone a big bug.
<TheSheep> don't touch me :P
<davmor2> TheSheep: Hammertime!
<charlie-tca> hm, two days of a busy channel here, what is this coming to? ;-)
<davmor2> charlie-tca: see what happens when you take over something cody-somerville can you take the reigns again it was much quieter 
<charlie-tca> True, true
<charlie-tca> but it is kind of nice to see a little bit of activity here, isn't it?
<charlie-tca> OMG! I just realized why I haven't been able to find the **(IJKM: shutdown button in my test installs
 * charlie-tca thought the "quit button" was just off screen
<charlie-tca> the eye sees what the mind thinks is there... 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: no, i don't plan to attack anyone
<TheSheep> boooriiing
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> i like your kind of humour TheSheep 
<TheSheep> humour? what do you mean? I'm serious
<ochosi> lol
<charlie-tca> ochosi: If you have time, can you look at the release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-03
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hiya. just read the release notes. they're a bit brief (no experience as to how long they should be), if you want me to add/propose some stuff let me know
<ochosi> charlie-tca: also about the known issues: the logout and reboot really doesn't work? i thought that was patched already by mr_pouit (at least for me it worked/works)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: it's a new issues that came up yesterday or the day before (very recently). With the "session menu" plugin, it doesn't shutdown the livecd but returns to gdm. With the usual logout dialog, it works fine though.
<mr_pouit> *issue
<ochosi> oh i see
<ochosi> haven't booted natty since two days ago or something
<mr_pouit> I can only reproduce it on livecds with vbox
<ochosi> hm, i can check again tonight when i'm @home
<mr_pouit> "There is a bug in the "session-menu" plugin in Xfce4. To reboot or shutdown from VirtualBox, you must logout, then reboot or shutdown from GDM. (711571) "
<mr_pouit> maybe you can suggest instead to use the application menu, I think it still works
<ochosi> right :) i maybe overread the Vbox part a bit
<mr_pouit> (I haven't rechcked anyway)
<ochosi> sure, i'm rather open to what plugins we use in the top panel
<ochosi> something we agreed upon was the orage plugin, i think all of us wanted that
<ochosi> for the rest i kinda followed my intuition
<mr_pouit> ah yeah, I need to check if a tz change is reflected on the panel
<mr_pouit> (orage and clock plugins)
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i considered showing the tz in the panel
<ochosi> but it seemed over the top
<ochosi> iirc it's shown in the tooltip
<mr_pouit> and a tz change isn't reflected in orage, yay <3
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> considering it's the only calendar app for xfce it's really a bit suck-ish
<mr_pouit> sigh, I'll file a bug later then
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> mr_pouit: who's the maintainer/dev of orage again?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: we have to keep the notes as short and to the point as possible until , I think, the rc, when we publish our own release notes.
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, makes sense. in that case i think it's well done
<mr_pouit> ochosi: mmh, Juha Kotto (not sure of the spelling, check the about dialog)
<charlie-tca> I was long winded for alpha1, got two sentences longer than the most of the others
<ochosi> mr_pouit: right, but what's his (or her?) nick on irc
<mr_pouit> he's not onirc afaik
<charlie-tca> I tried to get the main things in, and not miss any
<ochosi> charlie-tca: just read the release notes again, they really seem ok to me, well done
<ochosi> not too verbose but all the important facts are there
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 30 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend.
<ochosi> charlie-tca: arr, i fear i'll have to leave shortly before that...
<charlie-tca> ah
<ochosi> charlie-tca: could you quickly link me to the agenda?
<charlie-tca> any updates?
<ochosi> then i can have a look whether there's anything i need/want to comment
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings.
<ochosi> hm, not much from my side
<charlie-tca> okay, thanks
<charlie-tca> big news: natty alpha2 will release,probably within an hour or so
<ochosi> nice :)
<charlie-tca> and I hear good things about the panels and colors, too!
<ochosi> even better :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, a quick summary for the meeting:
<ochosi> i proposed (earlier already) to set some generic icons for default apps in xubuntu, here is a list, but it's not that *all* of the suggestions have to be accepted or denied, we can also select one or more we like
<ochosi> http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:generic_app_icons
<ochosi> it's just to start a discussion
<charlie-tca> will do. thanks
<ochosi> the app-finder really is problematic, because atm it looks the same as catfish (which does something completely different)
<ochosi> the xfburn icon might go upstream
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I am swamped at work today, no updates from me anyway
<ochosi> but maybe not in time for natty
<pleia2> re: meeting
<charlie-tca> thanks, pleia2 
<charlie-tca> ochosi: tango gives catfish an orange cat head
<ochosi> we have set a todo-list for gmusicbrowser, you can also make that public: http://wiki.knome.fi/xubuntu:natty_gmb
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yes, that's catfish's original icon, tango doesn't include an icon for catfish, so it falls back to the original (which is shipped with the app)
<charlie-tca> I think that is what it is, anyway. Not sure though
<ochosi> charlie-tca: so removing catfish from the elementary icon theme is another option
<ochosi> but i'd rather replace the icon
<ochosi> i don't like the cat a lot ;)
<charlie-tca> that or give one of them a new icon :-)
<ochosi> but we can discuss it
<ochosi> yeo
<ochosi> i also want to propose to work on a new default color palette for the terminal
<charlie-tca> got both lists. Will put them out
<charlie-tca> something blue?
<ochosi> i know white on black is traditional, but black on white is easier to read (imo) and integrates the scrollbars really nicely
<ochosi> and i hope mr_pouit and me will manage to reset the grub bg-color to black
<charlie-tca> I agree strongly. 
<ochosi> instead of ubuntu-aubergine
<ochosi> at least that would be one thing i'd prefer
<charlie-tca> I can't use the black terminals, either
<ochosi> ok, then that would be a good argument to change the palette to make the terminal more accessible
<TheSheep> xubuntu: the only project that changes color palette every release
<charlie-tca> we're young yet?
<TheSheep> not anymore
<charlie-tca> TheSheep: Ubuntu hasn't done bad changing colors on a continuous basis
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: don't compare to the worst
<charlie-tca> Now, depending on what install you do, you get aubergine or white in the terminals there
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> hm, maybe we just have to try until we get colors everyone likes a lot?
<TheSheep> that is not possible
<ochosi> TheSheep: well, we're trying to improve the colors, feel free to vote against the change ;)
<TheSheep> ochosi: sure, what is the goal of the improvement? what effect do you want to achieve and how do you measure it?
<TheSheep> ochosi: I vote against changes for the change's sake
<charlie-tca> lightweight, as in resources. Works easy for the user, as in intermediate
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: I mean, what is wrong now that you want to change
<TheSheep> charlie-tca: maybe just a few highlights
<charlie-tca> I can not use dark panels, myself, due to visual disability
<ochosi> TheSheep: are you specifically talking about terminal colors or the color change in general?
<TheSheep> ochosi: in general
<TheSheep> ochosi: like it is we are flailing blindly in the dark
<TheSheep> personally I use a black terminal myself and think that any other color doesn't make any sense for a terminal
<charlie-tca> I have not used the defaults for many releases, because I can not see the text/icons on dark anything
<ochosi> TheSheep: i worked with the colors (too blue) from the last release for a while and noticed that they're not so well suited for everyday work, the comments ranged from "great" to "really bad"
<TheSheep> I hve not used the defaults for many releases because I can't stand them changing all the time
<ochosi> TheSheep: it was a very short span of time to work on the theme last time, this time i started early in the release
<TheSheep> ochosi: what is bad in particular?
<ochosi> TheSheep: the extreme blue (in bluebird)
<TheSheep> ochosi: why is it bad?
<ochosi> TheSheep: i'm sorry, i have to go pretty much now, can we continue tomorrow/another time?
<TheSheep> ochosi: any time you want
<ochosi> TheSheep: k, i'll ping you when i'm back and have time
<TheSheep> ochosi: I just want to ask some questions that could hopefully let us focus, I don't know the answers myself
<charlie-tca> We need those questions, too.
<ochosi> TheSheep: sure, i'm happy to discuss all this, just one thing: why did you wait so long with this?
<TheSheep> it's ok to say "I don't know" too!
 * charlie-tca doesn't have the answers, either, as far as he knows
<TheSheep> ochosi: I didn't wait
<TheSheep> ochosi: I'm always open to discussion
<TheSheep> ochosi: I just don't like to butt in
<TheSheep> ochosi: I'm perfectly happy with waiting with it for the next release
<ochosi> TheSheep: no, i thought since the theme and the color-switch was talked about already quite a while ago
<TheSheep> ochosi: I didn't see that, or maybe I was busy at the time
<TheSheep> ochosi: probably both
<ochosi> ok, np, thanks for your input/questions anyway, let's continue when i'm back
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting. Everyone is invited to attend.
<mr_pouit> sorry, I just came back home
<charlie-tca> it's okay. Any updates that I should back up for?
<mr_pouit> no, 4.8.1 packages were the only important things
<charlie-tca> Thanks!
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'm a member of the Debian pkg-multimedia team, so I can get it updated there
<mr_pouit> ah yes, so definitely better if it's you :P
 * micahg can take another shot at using git :)
<mr_pouit> micahg: but please get in touch with ochosi, he knows exactly which version is needed :)
<mr_pouit> (in its ppa it's a native package thoughâ¦)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I see 1.1.6 in the PPA and that's what the watch file shows as well
<micahg> ochosi: feel free to ping me when you're avaialble
<charlie-tca> micahg, mr_pouit : thanks 
<micahg> charlie-tca: do you want me to keep bringing up Mozilla updates in the meeting?  It's Xubuntu only so far as they're the default apps
<charlie-tca> sure, it keeps me and the rest up to date, even if we don't always get properly excited.
<charlie-tca> It's really great when someone says "what is the latest on ..." and we have an answer!
<charlie-tca> Natty Alpha2 officially released - Please see the notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-04
<charlie-tca> micahg: bit of help?
<micahg> charlie-tca: sure
<charlie-tca> Latest updates to natty removed firefox
<charlie-tca> try to reinstall gives an error:
<charlie-tca> the following packages have unmet dependencies: firefox: Depends: python-gtk2 but it is not going to be installed
<charlie-tca> heh, bad?
<micahg> sounds bad :)
<charlie-tca> kind of without firefox now
<charlie-tca> can't be just me?
<micahg> charlie-tca: aptitude why-not firefox
<charlie-tca> Unable to find a reason to remove firefox
<charlie-tca> crap
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<micahg> hi ochosi
<ochosi> you talked about gmusicbrowser or something?
<charlie-tca> sure
<ochosi> cause it seems i missed that piece :)
<micahg> ochosi: yeah, I'm going to try to get it in Debian, 1.1.6, right?
<ochosi> yeah cool
<micahg> s/in/updated/
<ochosi> how hard is it to update it once it's there?
<ochosi> because currently i'm working hard on getting everything right for the natty release
<ochosi> so right now might be a bit soon (even though everything is basically working)
<micahg> ochosi: not hard once squeeze is released, as for Ubuntu updating, past feature freeze, anything more than bug fix releases need release team approval
<charlie-tca> well, I guess this is an opportunity! I can test midori and epiphany 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i'm just installing the latest updates in natty, we'll see whether firefox stays here
<charlie-tca> hm, this is 64bit, with the already lost nvidia-current, too
<micahg> charlie-tca: trying to upgrade my chroot, seems to be happy, let's see what happens after install
<charlie-tca> and that session menu bug found in testing bit me too
<ochosi> micahg: right, about ubuntu's policy i kinda knew (that's why i really try to keep the deadline in focus), about debian i don't/didn't really know much
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit is release team, isn't he?
<micahg> ochosi: so, next week I should be able to get it uploaded, the multimedia team has plenty of sponsors
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, he's probably a delegate like I am
<charlie-tca> micahg: want a bug for the missing firefox?
<micahg> chroot is busted :-/
<charlie-tca> well, it would be an update-manager bug, missing guake too now
<micahg> charlie-tca: ah, ok
<charlie-tca> oh, and catfish went
<ochosi> micahg: sounds really great! let me know if there's anything else you need!
<micahg> ochosi: ok, thanks, you're an upstream dev for it, right?
<charlie-tca> and I don't know what else
<ochosi> charlie-tca: oh dear, i won't do this upgrade. it proposes thousands of kde-packages and removes ff, catfish etc
 * charlie-tca did the upgrade and wishes he hadn't now
<micahg> charlie-tca: does aptitude why-not python-gtk2 show anything?
<ochosi> micahg: hm, well, i'm only a very small contributor. there's only one real dev (he kinda keeps this project to himself ;) )
<micahg> ochosi: oh, ok, still good to have connections ;)
<ochosi> micahg: i did some layout work, icons and a plugin
<charlie-tca> Unable to find a reason to remove firefox
<charlie-tca> no, instead of firefox, python-gtk2
<ochosi> micahg: but i'm pretty much in daily or at least weekly touch with squentin (quentin sculo)
<micahg> charlie-tca: hmm
<charlie-tca> hm too. I am going to attempt to file this, I don't know if it will work with midori, though
<micahg> charlie-tca: I forget how to get debug output from apt-get upgrade, but that would probably be helpful
<ochosi> micahg: btw, you can also grab 1.1.6 from his git repo if you prefer pure upstream, in my version there's basically a different default layout and a few other small changes
<charlie-tca> well, I can attach everything manually if I need to. I triage my share of these 
<micahg> ochosi: yeah, I'll do that, are there not release tarballs?
<ochosi> micahg: and i also don't wanna piss him off by superseeding his packages with mine...
<micahg> oh, nm, there's a watch file
<charlie-tca> yeah, update-manager is not a genuine package...
<ochosi> charlie-tca: update-manager has the nasty habit of always killing my nm-applet during the update
<micahg> charlie-tca: are you using a mirror or the main archive?
<charlie-tca> main, I think
<ochosi> same here
<charlie-tca> hm, micahg lots of packages installed then removed by the update
<charlie-tca> gimp, ibus-m17n, firefox, guake, gcompris, gnumeric, onboard, ibus- 
<charlie-tca> 20 or more packages
<micahg> sounds like the gtk stack is messed up
<micahg> charlie-tca: maybe check in #ubuntu+1
<charlie-tca> tried that.
<ochosi> charlie-tca: oh dear, i really hope the resize-grip issue gets fixed soon in natty
<ochosi> charlie-tca: it really looks pretty bad imo
<ochosi> anyway, got to get some sleep now
<ochosi> night everyone, see you!
<micahg> ochosi: you should file bugs if you see some, I think most got fixed
<charlie-tca> sorry, micahg. I guess firefox was the most visible one for me
<micahg> charlie-tca: not a problem, wish I had a good answer, I'm going to blow away my chroot now since I broke it :)
<charlie-tca> That's okay, you helped me find out how bad it really is.
<charlie-tca> Okay, going to bed now.
<ochosi> micahg: sure, sorry, i was just already pretty tired yesterday...
<ochosi> hm, seems like the decision to move towards gmusicbrowser made the news already: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/02/gmusicbrowser-now-default-music-app-in-xubuntu-11-04/
<charlie-tca> hm, is that a good thing or a bad thing to make it in OMG! Ubuntu now?
<charlie-tca> those resize grips are not going away totally. they will be fixed if they interfere with buttons
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<mr_pouit> \o
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: but who will fix them?
<charlie-tca> What's his name, bratsche ?
<charlie-tca> Some of the fixes are things like move the bottom scroll arrow up a tiny bit so the arrow is no longer hidden
<charlie-tca> if it is an annoying button present, it won't happen
<mr_pouit> well, I hope he has 96 hours/day, because he will have to try all gtk+ packages in the archive, and fix them if necessary
<charlie-tca> They won't attempt to remove the buttons 
<charlie-tca> They will fix the ones where the button covers things. firefox is an example, it is there. it will stay
<mr_pouit> I guess they might fix packages when a bug is reported
<mr_pouit> so packages from main mostly
<charlie-tca> There is no reason to file a bug against every app, because it is not going to go away
<mr_pouit> It is a good reason, because without the fix the app will look ugly
<charlie-tca> Unless it actually interferes with something, it will be invalid
<charlie-tca> ugly doesn't count. 
<mr_pouit> how would you define the current look of xfdesktop then?
<mr_pouit> if doesn't interfere with anything, there is only an ugly black area at the bottom of the wallpaper
<charlie-tca> That one will get fixed, since it is a fixed size. But firefox has one, and it won't get touched
<mr_pouit> fine if he fixes it
<mr_pouit> I won't touch that anyway
<charlie-tca> If they show up where they are useless, or interfere with a button, they fix it
<mr_pouit> this is going to add a completely unneeded delta with upstream and debian
<mr_pouit> and I won't be able to forward it
<charlie-tca> the panel, the desktop, the covered scroll button
<charlie-tca> I know. Ubuntu devs are supposed to be doing them
<charlie-tca> we made webupd8 with gmusicbrowser too
<charlie-tca> looks good, too. Publicity for Xubuntu, publicity for Shimmer! 
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, the publicity machinery is working pretty well for us this release
<ochosi> charlie-tca: btw, have you had contact with bratsche?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: because if so, it would be great if you could ask him how we can theme those beasts (the resize-grips) if they're gonna be all over the place
<ochosi> charlie-tca: and since the gtk2 approach doesn't work with gtk3 i really don't have a clue how it should work (gtk3 docu is not very helpful yet)
<charlie-tca> I can ask him, yes.
<ochosi> thanks, that would be great
<charlie-tca> I will see what I can get out of him
<ochosi> i worked a bit more on the theme lately, doing some improvements on xfwm4 and xfce4-notifyd
<ochosi> i'll do a new release soon and let you know so you can test it
<charlie-tca> great! just be sure to push me on it, so I don't forget
<ochosi> okeydokey :)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: ok, i pushed most of the changes i did to the theme now. feel free to grab/test it: http://shimmerproject.org/hg/bluebird-colors/archive/tip.tar.gz
<ochosi> charlie-tca: stuff that is still todo for xfwm is the "stick" button, apart from that it's final
<ochosi> charlie-tca: it also picks up gtk colors now, so you can also use it with other themes and it'll integrate well
<ochosi> k, have a nice weekend everyone!
<ochosi> o/
<charlie-tca> thanks
<charlie-tca> installed latest greybird
<charlie-tca> ochosi: can't change the background colors for orage, but that may not be your theme. I can't do it in raleigh either
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, orage is still pretty buggy unfortunately. discussed that recently with mr_pouit, maybe we can make the clock-plugin provide the same functionality without the problems of orage
<ochosi> yet another (really positive!) review from the german community (unfortunately in german though): http://blog.elektronik-projekt.de/
<ochosi> oh, corrected link: http://blog.elektronik-projekt.de/2011/02/xubuntu-11-04-natty-narwhal-ein-einblick/
<charlie-tca> okeydokey,
<charlie-tca> Great! positive reviews are a good thing
<charlie-tca> I think if orage is not going to work right, the clock plugin does tell time... 
<ochosi> yeah, mr_pouit said that with a hidden option the clock plugin can start orage, so the functionality of opening the calendar would stay the same
<ochosi> (and that's the main gain from that plugin imo)
<ochosi> so we'll test it and then could discuss a switch to the clock-plugin in the next meeting
<ochosi> TheSheep: sorry i didn't have time for you yet, the weekend is rather busy here, so maybe early next week?
<TheSheep> ochosi: sure, no hurry, I'm rather busy too, thank you for your care
<ochosi> TheSheep: no problem, i'm really happy to hear your feedback or discuss things
<ochosi> k, now finally gotta go ;)
<TheSheep> I wish I had answers instead of questions
<ochosi> guess there are no "answers" (as in "final answers"), only process...
<charlie-tca> Is this still true in Natty? Can we fix it? 
<charlie-tca> You probably need to unmute pulseaudio
<charlie-tca> It helpfully starts muted by default
#xubuntu-devel 2011-02-05
<ochosi> charlie-tca: you don't have to ask bratsche about theming the resize grip anymore, i already managed ;)
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> only question that remains is whether i can also indirectly fix bugs like this
<ochosi> e.g. using an empty pixmap resize grip for windows where it shouldn't show up
<ochosi> (but i'm kind of afraid that the resize-area would still stay there, even if not visible anymore)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: the best part about this is that we can now make the resize-grip more visible (if we want to)
<charlie-tca> It does have it uses. I notice the resize arrow now shows up in both left corners easily, but I am not sure seeing the stupid thing matters ;-)
<charlie-tca> s/left/right
<ochosi> yeah
<charlie-tca> personally, I think it is ugly
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i agree
<charlie-tca> I suspect people will see it and decide that is where they have to grab to do a resize, which is false
<ochosi> why is it false?
<charlie-tca> I can still put the cursor anywhere on the border to resize, I do not have to grab at the grip only
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> that is something we ca also discuss, reducing the border-width now that there is the resize grip all over the place
<charlie-tca> a visual indicator like that gives people the idea it won't work anywhere else
<charlie-tca> hm, I hadn't thought about reducing the border, I use them to find the edges, but I guess you are right.
<charlie-tca> A thin border would work
<ochosi> here's the resize grip pixmap i tried: http://wiki.knome.fi/_detail/shimmer:resize-grip.png?id=shimmer%3Agreybird
<ochosi> it doesn't look all bad
<ochosi> we can still decide to use it for some apps and not use it for the rest
<charlie-tca> Maybe there is use case for visibility, too? orage world time without the title bar, you can only resize by grabbing the grip
<ochosi> that's the other gain from knowing how to theme the beast: we can define which apps should use the pixmap resize grip
<charlie-tca> lot more work, though, isn't it?
<ochosi> hm, i guess it could be ok
<charlie-tca> that grip is what I see with industrial theme, too
<ochosi> i just have to figure out the namespace of each app we want to theme, then it's one line per app
<charlie-tca> But, more work, looks great! might make a difference to a theme that can be distributed all over?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> this resize grip is not really what i want to finally use, it's just one thing i found in another theme and quickly took to try how it looks
<ochosi> i can make a few resize-grip designs
<ochosi> and then we can vote on which one we prefer
<charlie-tca> yes, that would be great
<ochosi> it seems trivial (the grip), but since it's gonna be in practically every window...
<charlie-tca> like I said, sometimes it does need to be there, too
<ochosi> yep
<charlie-tca> May as well make it pretty, huh?
<ochosi> exactly :)
<ochosi> if you see resize-grips in other themes (or anywhere else) that you like please point me to them
<charlie-tca> I will look again. Most of what I have seen is the 3-lines in a diagonal only. 
<ochosi> hm, the only other thing i've seen is the resize-grip of the aurora engine
<ochosi> that one is also not bad
<charlie-tca> high-contrast does it, too, with black on the lines. that is kind of more ugly.
<ochosi> and very visible
<ochosi> yeah, high-contrast is not very nice... just tried it
<charlie-tca> It works when you really need it
<ochosi> true
<ochosi> charlie-tca: please remind me at some point to do something about the dict-plugin still not really working in the panel
<charlie-tca> I will try. Still got to keep trying the weather plugin, too. 
<ochosi> even though i don't really know why that is (verve seems more or less ok now)
<charlie-tca> They just released another update for that
<ochosi> ah nice
<ochosi> at some point i was wondering whether we want to add that to the default panel conf
<ochosi> but not sure whether it's a good idea
<charlie-tca> Would the new user use it, or is it more of "experienced users like this"?
<ochosi> not sure, the main thing is that it's utterly useless without internet
<charlie-tca> I will have to reinstall pretty soon, too, since the update yesterday for removing python 2.6 removed about 20 apps on me
<charlie-tca> hm, we do have a bunch of non-connected users. 
<ochosi> myeah, i still didn't do that upgrade because it wants to remove nvidia-current
<charlie-tca> oh, I did that one. 
<charlie-tca> We will be without it most of the cycle now
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> why's that?
<charlie-tca> nvidia has to re-write it to work with Xserver 1.10
<ochosi> right
<charlie-tca> It usually takes them a couple of months, at least
<ochosi> here's an example of a "borderless" theme, since we just talked about it: http://bobdmv.deviantart.com/art/Elementary-borderless-0-2-192021221
<ochosi> oh dear, i need my nvidia driver...
<ochosi> just not sure how the resize grip would look in such a window
<charlie-tca> I don't think I like that so much. I have a hard time seeing where each window is
<ochosi> i mean in a window without border
<ochosi> yeah
<charlie-tca> but, the greatest thing in the world, they change easily!
<ochosi> yep :)
<ochosi> alrighty, g2g to bed now
<charlie-tca> for what I do, the windows would wash into each other
<ochosi> mhm
<charlie-tca> Good night. and thanks
<ochosi> np, nighty night
<ochosi> cd /bed && sleep
<cody-somerville> Interesting. Chromium browser uses more CPU than Firefox but Firefox uses more memory, lol
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: with the updates after alpha2 release, the first restart I had about 9 apps crash, including xorg. I have not been able to reproduce them.
<charlie-tca> I also have not been able to reproduce the reboot/shutdown bug again after those updates. Will keep trying, though.
<charlie-tca> Team Report updates for January are due today. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
<charlie-tca> I guess I am not just a user anymore... :-)
<j1mc> : ) ??
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-30
<knome> pleia2, staging site updated!!
<knome> micahg, status on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/murrine-themes/+bug/856939 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 856939 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "Default Thunderbird icons in Oneiric unusable with Greybird" [Medium,In progress]
<micahg> knome: ugh
<knome> :)
<knome> be back in 10
<pleia2> knome: I think the last thing we need to do is add the quick links to the pages/posts
 * pleia2 wonders if we just give up on the 404 page for now
<pleia2> oh, and we'll need to make sure we give them the list of redirects
<knome> pleia2, we can discuss that @ #canonical-sysadmin. i forgot to ask about that.
<pleia2> knome: yeah, let me look at the ticket, I think in some part of it they actually asked for a list of redirects rather than letting us have some redirect plugin
<knome> yeah, that's what they did
<knome> they also asked us to file new tickets
<knome> in the future
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> so maybe just file the ticket with the list of redirects from our /Website page, and then follow up in -syadmin?
<knome> yeah, that would work :)
<knome> i can handle the followup if you send the email
<knome> oh, and please CC me as pasi@shimmerproject.org :)
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> #19232 done
<pleia2> now I go back to bed!
<ochosi> pleia2: get well soon!
<knome> pleia2, thanks, and get well soon :)
<micahg> we're borderline oversized for live amd64, do we care?
<ochosi> micahg: is gnome-icon-theme-full part of live amd64?
<micahg> no
<ochosi> ok, good to know
 * micahg tries an update to see if anything gets dropped
<micahg> 2 versions of lcms...
<micahg> 2 versions of libusb..(this I'll try to fix for beta maybe)
<micahg> ah, libusb is 18k, don't care sore much
<micahg> lcms1 is 100k, a little more worthwhile
<micahg> respin of meta didn't do anything useful, so not uploading
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-31
<ochosi> micahg: there'll be a new release of gmusicbrowser tomorrow, it'll fix a few issues that are also xubuntu-critical. maybe we could get it through debian before FF?
<hobgoblin> anyone in here want some feedback on Pasi's terminalrc blog post?
 * knome wants
 * hobgoblin loves it - almost
<knome> ok, so what's the problem?
<hobgoblin> all I would say is the scroll bar looks like an addon - if that could be the same scheme hobgoblin would love it completely
<knome> i know there might be problematic color combinations
<knome> right, that's being fixed in greybird
<knome> or, that's actually fixed already
<knome> i just seem to have an old version of greybird
<hobgoblin> for me it looks ok - I suspect people with visual issues mightn't like it - but they are likely to set it up for themselves anyway - perhaps
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> we are thinking of having an "accessibility" installation choice, that could use the normal color scheme
<knome> and a bigger font...
<hobgoblin> knome: excellent then - though I didn't actually have this terminalrc at all here - had to do from scratch 
<knome> ah, right :)
<knome> then i suppose you had the default setting :)
<knome> +s
<hobgoblin> yea - that would make sense to do 
<knome> but we still have to investigate if that is possible
<hobgoblin> I guess so - some fiddling with fonts is all I normally do to be honest 
<knome> mmh.
<knome> the font has been gigantic so far, now we've dropped it to 10 for terminal
<hobgoblin> but all in all I think it looks good and fits well with other stuff here 
<knome> yup, that's the idea. and thanks! :)
<hobgoblin> in fact the only issue I have had at all with 12.04 at all is hibernate not working which I assume to be to do with the polkit and a qt app I use looking rubbish - had to install a libgnome package 
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit ^
<hobgoblin> but all in all it's been great - I have it running on 3 machines 
<knome> i know nothing about that stuff :)
<hobgoblin> I only know what I manage to find out :)
<mr_pouit> Bug #812394
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 812394 in Ayatana Design "Disable hibernate option by default" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/812394
<hobgoblin> mr_pouit: yea - thought it was that one - saw it yesterday I think, sudo pm-hibernate makes it work, but tbh I don't ever hibernate or suspend - just been trying things to at least help if possible 
<astraljava> micahg: mr_pouit: How is the lp:ubuntu/edubuntu-live branch created? Is it one of the branches that are comprised of something else, like ubuntustudio-meta?
<astraljava> err... sorry.
 * astraljava is messed up
<hobgoblin> wouldn't worry - hobgoblin is too
 * hobgoblin thought this was the #windows channel and ended up with xubuntu on 3 machines 
<astraljava> Thanks. It's no news to me, either. I've been clinically insane for 13 years now. :D But in this case, I confused ed with X.
<knome> NICHT! nobody is allowed to be messed up!
<knome> micahg, the ubiquity-slideshow is actually also blocked by the TB bug, so if you could rush it just a tiny bit more ;))
<knome> like we didn't ask about it too often already
<hobgoblin> knome: so how do I get the scrollbar to look as nice as the rest - wait or is there something I can do that is not too much like voodoo ... 
<knome> hobgoblin, https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<knome> hobgoblin, download the latest Greybird from Github
<knome> hobgoblin, direct download link: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tarball/master
<knome> hobgoblin, then unpack that to ~/.themes/
<hobgoblin> mmm - never done that - wouldn't know where to start - almost 5 years using ubuntu and never got anywhere near to using git lol 
<knome> you can just download a package, no need to download via git
<hobgoblin> but thansk for the direct link :)
 * hobgoblin types slowly and doesn't look up often :D
 * knome types fast and doesn't look down often
<hobgoblin> :)
<hobgoblin> knome: done that - looks the same to me :(
<knome> right. ochosi ! ^
<hobgoblin> shouldn't need to logout or anything should I?
<knome> no, but you should of course change the theme
<knome> in appearance
<hobgoblin> yea :)
<knome> apart from that, i'm not sure what you should do.
<hobgoblin> k - then no apparent change here :)
<knome> anyway, ochosi told me that's fixed, so i'll get back to this with him
<hobgoblin> ok 
 * hobgoblin will watch with interest off and on over the next few days :) unfortuantely there's not much I can do other than try things and make sure they work - and help others when I can 
<micahg> knome: it's not an instant fix
<micahg> we can probably have  a patch for beta 1
<knome> okay...
<micahg> ochosi: re gmusicbrowser> sure, we can get that in next week
<micahg> hibernate has been a disaster for most users, so I guess it makes sense they're disabling it
<micahg> ok, do we care about amd64 live being oversized?
<charlie-tca> micahg: wait
<micahg> It's right on the edge, 704
<micahg> it might still fit, idk
<charlie-tca> At least until the beta1 image, to see what happens to it
<knome> hey charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> It is not unusual for us to have oversized alpha images
<charlie-tca> It is normally release noted that an image is oversize and will fit and work from either USB or DVD
<knome> charlie-tca, madnick needs some input on accessibility on the lightdm theme from you later :)
<charlie-tca> Why wouldn't it be the same as Ubuntu's lightdm?
<knome> we want to theme it, and madnick has built a greeter engine
<knome> i think it has something to do with accessibility features being accessible...
<knome> more than text being readable and so
<charlie-tca> So, what will change on accessibility? Still want to be able to run Onboard, Start ORca, and read the screen, right?
<knome> yes, i suppose that's the idea :)
<knome> but we need to wait for madnick to push the code so it's testable
<charlie-tca> Then it should match unity-greeter accessibility
<knome> right. would you be available for a follow-up with madnick about this later in the cycle?
<charlie-tca> yes
<knome> thanks :)
<charlie-tca> yw
<knome> are you okay, btw? haven't seen you much around lately
<charlie-tca> Yup, just busy with other things that I put off before.
<knome> okay :)
<knome> how's testing been?
<charlie-tca> Should be able to be around on Wednesdays, I'm hoping
<knome> maybe-ubiquity acts nicely?
<charlie-tca> Haven't touched the images for a week
<knome> mmh, right
<charlie-tca> The tests are all tracked on the QA tracker now, including daily testing
<knome> mm-hmm :) is that working well for us?
<charlie-tca> As well as any new procedure
<knome> good to hear it's not a nightmare at least...
<charlie-tca> micahg: xfburn says 704 won't fit on the cd-r, will burn it to dvd instead
<davmor2> charlie-tca: it's right too ;)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, but I really did not want it to be, this time.
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, 703.5X is the limit for a CDR
<charlie-tca> That doesn't make me not want 704 to fit :(
<micahg> well, I wasn't sure how close our 704 was
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I figured I would try it and let you know
<charlie-tca> apparently, too close
<micahg> ISTR that xfburn won't let you go over 700 anyways
<charlie-tca> I thought it let me burn 702 before
<charlie-tca> But that could be wishful thinking too
<davmor2> charlie-tca: out of interest how is libburnia nowadays?
<charlie-tca> Seems to be working
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, the alternate amd64 is a good test, it's at 702 or 702
<micahg> *701
<GridCube> i cant do alpha2 tests today, will do them tomorrow, its that ok?
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> GridCube: just got to update the iso tracker for alpha2 when you do them
<GridCube> :) ok
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<GridCube> i haven't been able to do much tests lately, my isp isnt being nice and my work download speed tops 1kbs usually :(
<charlie-tca> I understand that one. I get a consistent 160Kps here, or lower
<pleia2> hehe, nice, Canonical hired a sysadmin friend of mine ("oh hey, I'm working on your ticket!" "Neat!"!)
<baizon> xD
<pleia2> anyway, link redirects in the works :)
<knome> pleia2, arrr
<pleia2> they will make them work for wp.xubuntu.org (so we can test them now) and then just update them when we go live
<baizon> nice
<baizon> will test it tomorrow right away :D
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/brainstorm-20120131-improv.png
<astraljava> ooohhhh I love that!
 * astraljava is a big nature fan
<knome> mm-hmm.
<knome> i think we have a winner.
<knome> now just finalize that.
<astraljava> Yes PLEASE!!!
<pleia2> nice :)
<knome> thanks
<madnick> knome: that is nice
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft2.png
<astraljava> Can you tone down the green shimmering a little bit?
<knome> why? :P
<astraljava> It's a bit too much. :)
 * astraljava whispers... "dumb-*ss"
<knome> lol
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft3.png
<astraljava> Now it's just darker, overall.
<knome> no, the green is also more subtle.
<astraljava> Well, a tad. But too little.
<knome> MAYBE.
<knome> but i kind of like that effect
<knome> don't worry, i'll make it less subtle eventually
<astraljava> Oh alright. :)
<knome> i'm sure i will
<knome> i always get bored to the greens
<astraljava> But I'm liking it when it's lighter, as in the draft2.
<knome> overall, i think the vignetting effect is somewhat an improvement
<astraljava> wiktionary.org knows not of such a word
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft4.png
<knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vignetting
<astraljava> draft4 is better, but I still liked it better when it was lighter. The green amount is good now, IMHO. And thanks, wonder why wiktionary.org didn't know about it.
<knome> mmh. hard to make the green lighter when there is the vignetting
<astraljava> Oh, it's there. I must have made a typo.
<knome> yeah, i know, you suck
<astraljava> No, don't make the green lighter. Just the overall lightness.
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft5.png
<knome> slightly lighter.
<knome> i think it still needs some texture
<knome> and maybe a bird.
<astraljava> Yeah. But now I like the colors, and the lightness. Nice, mate! :)
<ochosi> looks like a mix between hardy(?) and maverick :)
<ochosi> i mean hardy landscape with a tint of maverick-colors
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> well, i guess it's not bad because it gives some style-consistency across releases
<ochosi> and it'll work well with greybird color-wise
<ochosi> (and with albatross fwiw)
<ochosi> maybe not as good with bluebird though
<knome> yeah, i thought: time to have some nostalgia too
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> and now add a pangolin
<knome> lol
<astraljava> He's over @ #beanpc
 * knome lols
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft6.png
<ochosi> again, ripping off your own design? :)
<knome> haha, yeah
<knome> except that's not the same bird
<ochosi> it just looks like it is
<knome> haha
<knome> the wings bend to different way, for example
<knome> well, how do you make a silhouette of a flying bird looking much different from another?
<ochosi> use a different type of bird
<knome> lol
<knome> i don't want a clumsy bird ;]
<ochosi> hmm, maybe a pangolin?
<knome> meh
<knome> how well that suits to a finnish lake?
<ochosi> precisely perfect!
<knome> lol
<astraljava> The falcon/hawk/seagull/whathaveyou is a tad too "strong".
<knome> astraljava, yeah.
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft7.png
<astraljava> Now _that's_ gorgeous!
<knome> yeah, i know.
<knome> and it's still all-vector
<astraljava> Man, you _do_ know your sh*t after all. :)
<knome> heh, sometimes ;)
<pleia2> bah, how did wp get set to do /articles/ rather than /news/ for blog posts
 * pleia2 fixes
<knome> hehe
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft9.png
<pleia2> I don't like birds
<knome> lol
<pleia2> :)
<Unit193> They are a major pain in the morning...
<knome> our neighbours are. they've woken me up many times by arguing under our window.
<astraljava> Just what do you do with them in the nights, then?
<knome> har har
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-01
<pleia2> added the Quick Links to the sidebar of the pages
<knome> micahg, ?
<knome> pleia2, :)
<pleia2> knome: are we done? :)
<knome> we should add some archive-browsing links in the sidebar
<pleia2> k
<knome> let me quickly set up a proposal
<micahg> knome: ?
<knome> micahg, was wed a good/bad day for you?
<micahg> for what?
<knome> meeting
<micahg> what time?
<knome> 17utc or earlier
<knome> or 18utc
<micahg> umm, not good for me next week, should work this week
<knome> you mean, today? :P
<knome> what about friday this week, about same time
<knome> or nvm.
<knome> let's have a meeting this wed and next wed.
<micahg> umm, I'm still on Tuesday ;)
<knome> heh ;)
<knome> pleia2, i think that should do
<pleia2> knome: looks good!
<pleia2> knome: we can formally decide we're ready to switch over at the meeting tomorrow
 * pleia2 will sleep on it
<knome> yup
<knome> errr
<knome> d'oh
<knome> okay, the meetings are in the fridge calendar
<knome> pleia2, i fear we're going to have to go through the xubuntu wiki pages too in the future...
 * pleia2 nods
 * knome is thinking of deleting most of them
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> that's how I've been "handling" the news team wiki pages lately
<knome> yeah
<knome> there's a bit too much stuff in there
<knome> and some of it would do much better in the website
<pleia2> yeah, the contribute stuff in particular is all strangely scattered between the site and wiki
<knome> yeah
<knome> another thing that has been under discussion much is the strategy document
<knome> there are things i'd like to review, and generally, i think it could do better if it was a tad shorter
<len_> Hey, Len from Ubuntu Studio. Just installed todays iso. Two comments.
<pleia2> yeah, I'm glad we have one but it needs review periodically to make sure it remains useful and accurate
<knome> keeping it up-to-date is a monstrous job if it's too long
<pleia2> welcome len_ 
<knome> hey len_ 
<len_> The slide show has some outdated slides in it
<pleia2> I'm still getting over this flu, so I'm going to go zone out to some TV for a bit, talk more tomorrow :)
<knome> len_, we're working on that
<knome> pleia2, yup, get well soon :)
<len_> About how 11.10 is the latest and greatest
<knome> pleia2, see you at the meeting at latest! :)
<knome> len_, yes, it's known and it is WIP
<len_> I don't know if there is supposed to be a progress bar on the bottom,
<len_> But I can't see it.
<knome> maybe somebody who does the tests can tell if that exists for other flavors
<len_> Other than that it seems to work well.
<len_> Well in US there is a progress bar at the bottom... when it still worked :-)
<len_> Well even when it doesn't.
<knome> FYI, i'm also working on the new US slideshow
<knome> so if you want that to be visible, i need to investigate that
<len_> It is nice to know things are moving. There is a kernel bug right now that makes me no net.
<knome> err, if US wants that to be visible ;)
<len_> so when xubuntu was trying to download stuff things just stopped but there was no progress bar so I didn't know if it had stopped or was doing something.
<len_> I had to tail the syslog to see what was happening.
<len_> I am using a netbook, BTW
<knome> right, well i know very little of that kind of technical things
<len_> So the bar may be below what I could see.
<astraljava> len_: Because I very rarely use desktop images, were you able to Alt + F1 like one could on alternate installers, to see what's going on?
<len_> There is no logging on VT4
<len_> (or any other)
<knome> len_, so did maybe-ubiquity work as expected? is there something that is ubuntu-branded that should really be xubuntu-branded?
<astraljava> len_: Alt + right-click to move a window by dragging, might work on ubiquity.
<knome> astraljava, you too if you know ^
<astraljava> knome: Ehh... WTF is maybe-ubiquity?
<len_> The window was already as high as it could go.
<knome> astraljava, hahah, it's the thing that asks you whether you want to install or try live
<astraljava> knome: Oh okay.
<len_> Last I saw US didn't have that
<astraljava> Never heard that name before.
<astraljava> len_: Oh yes it did.
<knome> i've NEVER *seen* it ;)
<len_> Just the boot screen
<astraljava> WHA?!
<len_> Xubuntu has it though
<knome> i mean, maybe-ubiquity was added for xubuntu in precise
<astraljava> The screen which provides you the options to go live, install without trying, and all extra kernel options and the like?
<astraljava> Oh.
<astraljava> Strange.
<knome> "enable hidden-timeout splash mode for Xubuntu"
<astraljava> Well, I may have to have a look. Once the new images are done.
<knome> was the message that fixed this.
<knome> bug #720652
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 720652 in Ubuntu CD Images "[Xubuntu] maybe-ubiquity/new greeter support" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/720652
<len_> Hmm, I also notice that lightdm works on xubuntu without the /usr/share/xgreeters/default.desktop file.
<micahg> IIRC, we use lightdm-set-defaults
<len_> Does Scott know?
<len_> How would I check that?
<knome> he most probably does
<knome> asking him is a good choice
<micahg> len_: take a look at the postinst and postrm in xubuntu-default-settings
<len_> Ok, I'm posting the questions to Scott as well.
<knome> BOO for taking >2months to review merges :((
<len_> micahg: thanks for the help.
<micahg> knome: who's taking >2 months to review a merge?
<knome> micahg, https://code.launchpad.net/~simon-steinbeiss/unico/fix-resize-grip/+merge/83929
<knome> it's even trivial
<Unit193> Those take the most time
<micahg> ask cimi?
<knome> not online
<len_> I going to vanish now ... thanks again.
<knome> will poke him soon
<knome> nighty!
<GridCube> iim failing to install today's image
<GridCube> :/ first trying to launch the intaller directly, not going to live, but it goes to live session
<GridCube> then it doesnt have mouse integration with vbox, wich its a first
<GridCube> then it doesnt launch the installer from the desktop
<GridCube> and it doesnt recognizes the vbox network either
<charlie-tca> There was an issue with the mouse in vbox yesterday too
<charlie-tca> GridCube: trying to launch the installer directly == from the cd menu or from "try Xubuntu" "install Xubuntu" ?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> i choosed the Install, not the try
<GridCube> but i will send me to the live, not the pure installer
<charlie-tca> okay. The install from desktop is going to need a bug filed
<GridCube> im making a bug report from outside the installer
<charlie-tca> That's okay
<GridCube> but i cant get logs from the vbox because i dont have network
<GridCube> today's image still being alpha2?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> all images until tomorrow when alpha2 releases
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> charlie-tca, should i do a single bug report with all the issues or should i do separated reports for each one?
<charlie-tca> separate
<GridCube> ok
<charlie-tca> I will try to reproduce the issue with the desktop installer on hardware. That is a big one, if we can not install from the desktop
<GridCube> charlie-tca, http://imagebin.org/196727
<charlie-tca> no network connection?
<GridCube> no
<charlie-tca> If it is not connected to the internet, it won't allow the bug to be filed
<charlie-tca> That's normal
<charlie-tca> GridCube: we think they are going to respin the desktop images again
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> #924931
<GridCube> bug 924931
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 924931 in Ubuntu "xubuntu precise pangolin alpha2 problems" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924931
<GridCube> mmm i cant report another empty bug
<charlie-tca> No point in it
<charlie-tca> I will try here on hardware and see what happens, as soon as the test running finishes
<charlie-tca> If I read this right, you choose "try xubuntu" and can't install from the desktop, but if you choose "install xubuntu" it goes to the desktop and the installer works?
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> neither works
<GridCube> if you just try to install from the direct install, no live session, it will load the desktop with 2 bug reports
<charlie-tca> I will give it a try then.
<charlie-tca> 386 or 64bit?
<GridCube> one being ubiquity failin, and the other being ...
<GridCube> 32bits
<GridCube> i get you my old bug reports for past week
<GridCube> here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/920639
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 920639 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "The "install only" doesnt work on xubuntu Precise Daily" [Undecided,New]
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> i have to go to work now
<GridCube> see you in a few hours
<kurapika> helloooo
<knome> xubuntu community meeting in about 20
<astraljava> Are you guys able to install apps in a live session of A-2?
<charlie-tca> Will try, 386 or 64bit?
<charlie-tca> Oh, think it depends on the day of the week, too
<astraljava> 64-bit
<astraljava> I tried on last night's, so 20120201
<charlie-tca> I tried a couple of weeks ago, and it failed once and worked once
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Oh, and this is Studio I'm talking about. Just wondering whether it works for other derivatives.
<charlie-tca> Okay, spinning up now
<charlie-tca> When I got it to install gedit, it failed trying to run the installer without rebooting
<astraljava> weird
<charlie-tca> As I recall, I ran apt-get update and then the application installs failed, but just running software center without updating worked
<astraljava> Interesting, I gotta try other front-ends too.
<charlie-tca> Waiting for the desktop
<knome> pleia2, you ready to rock? ;)
<charlie-tca> astraljava: any app or ?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: I tried lshw
<astraljava> But I can try others, if you like.
<charlie-tca> already installed in Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> Trying to install gedit using software center
<charlie-tca> did not run apt-get update
<charlie-tca> it's installing
<charlie-tca> will try in terminal next
<knome> are we ready to start the meeting? :)
<astraljava> I thought you were about to rock.
 * knome plugs the guitars
<knome> ;)
<astraljava> h*ll yeah!
 * pleia2 waves
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb  1 17:00:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> #topic Business carried on
<knome> #subtopic Review the 'default shortcut keys' -blueprint
<knome> since Sysi has been busy with army, we have partly taken care of this with ochosi 
<knome> we are most probably going to postpone most xfce-shortcuts until P+1, but there are some application shortcuts we'd like to introduce
<knome> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Precise/DefaultShortcutKeys
<knome> see bottom of the page
<charlie-tca> Does anyone besides Unity use Super key shortcuts?
<knome> i don't know. that's one of the controversial things about the xfce-shortcut keys, but i think super would fit well for application shortcuts
<kurapika> super+T for terminal is so great ;)
<knome> you don't "miss" anything even if you didn't have the super key
<knome> and, the idea is of course to bind the keys to exo-launchers, not the specific apps
<charlie-tca> But if you used ctrl or alt, anyone would have them?
<knome> so they will follow the default apps
<knome> charlie-tca, sure, except those keys might have overlapping shortcuts, like alt+f opens the file-menu
<kurapika> oups :P
<knome> anyway, one more week for feedback
<knome> #info Anyone: give feedback about proposed default shortcuts
<knome> we aren't in hurry with decisions, but i wouldn't want to postpone this over and over again
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> #subtopic Packaging and Development
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit 
<knome> (and please use #info)
<knome> #info The Shimmer Project themes are about to be moved from murrine-themes to shimmer-themes
<micahg> #info mr_pouit fixed some xfce4-power-manager bugs
<micahg> #info there's an updated synaptic with some bug fixes from Debian, but it failed to build, I'll fix it after alpha2
<micahg> #info new ristretto with bugfixes syncd
<micahg> #info if there are any package version  updates people want, Feature Freeze is Feb 16, so ideally we should do it before then
<micahg> ..
<knome> thanks micahg :)
<knome> #subtopic Bug Triage, Testing and Documentation
<knome> charlie-tca, Unit193 
<charlie-tca> Testing the Alpha2 milestones this week
<charlie-tca> Desktop images are being rebuilt now. Alternates may be rebuilt yet
<knome> #info Testing the Alpha2 milestones this week
<charlie-tca> Need help getting these tested as they rebuild. The newest ones should be 20120201.1
<knome> #info Desktop images are being rebuilt now. Alternates may be rebuilt yet
<knome> #info Need help getting these tested as they rebuild. The newest ones should be 20120201.1
 * astraljava will try to help with that
<charlie-tca> ..
<knome> charlie-tca, is there anything you need help from the developer/artwork/etc side?
<astraljava> ..
<Unit193> Just synced them tooll {..}
<knome> charlie-tca, also, is maybe-ubiquity ubuntu-branded? (do you need that to be xubuntu-branded)
<charlie-tca> We need help getting the tests done. I don't think anything matters much if we don't get them tested
<charlie-tca> We don't need anything changed until after alpha2 now. Then, yes, maybe-ubiquity is purple
<knome> yeah, agreed. are you far behind?
<charlie-tca> We are at no tests done if everything gets rebuilt
<knome> mmh :/
<knome> true
<knome> #action knome to look at maybe-ubiquity retheming
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to look at maybe-ubiquity retheming
<charlie-tca> and we have until what, about 3AM UTC to be done
<knome> mmh
<knome> i'm trying to get maybe-ubiquity rethemed before FF, can't promise more
<knome> so before that, no need to worry about that
<scott-work> mr_pouit: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/xubuntu-default-settings/precise/view/head:/debian/xubuntu-default-settings.preinst
<scott-work> mr_pouit: shoudl the last section see if "12.04" is the equivalent release?
<knome> #subtopic Marketing, Artwork and Website
<knome> pleia2! :)
<pleia2> oh goodie :)
<pleia2> so, big news on the website front!
<knome> use #info please ;)
<pleia2> #info knome and I have finished up the edits required to go live with the new wordpress website
<pleia2> #info there are some content edits we may want, but I don't want to wait on those because there will probably always be content edits
<pleia2> so it's time to decide, want to go live with wp.xubuntu.org replacement for the old drupal xubuntu.org? :)
<pleia2> not sure if we should discuss, vote, or what
<knome> #info some content edits todo: developertools/, press/, about/
<knome> if anybody has objections, please let them out now
<knome> if there is no objections, we will let the IS move the site to production
<charlie-tca> Is it really a question, since we have not been updating the current site awaiting the new one?
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I've kept up with important edits on both sites
<knome> not really, except if there is some clear shortcomings on the new site
<knome> or bugs that need fixed
<pleia2> (bug fixes have gone to both, for instance)
<knome> but there should be none, unless we've both missed them
<charlie-tca> But we have been waiting a year or so to get the new site up?
<knome> yes, and now we're finally pretty much bugfree and ready ;)
<pleia2> we've been working on it for over 8 months, yeah
<knome> i'm all for pushing it to production
<charlie-tca> +1
<knome> #action pleia2 to create a ticket in RT for releasing the new website!
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to create a ticket in RT for releasing the new website!
<pleia2> great :)
<knome> pleia2, if you have time after the meeting, we could go through some issues with the site
<knome> (content)
<pleia2> maybe
<knome> ok :)
<pleia2> are we doing an alpha2?
<charlie-tca> Doesn't that depend on getting it tested?
<pleia2> if so, we need at least some very basic release text for the site
<knome> i can help working on that text
<charlie-tca> We do not have time to run upgrade tests and all the mandatory tests required, since it will be an hour minimum before we have the images now
<pleia2> and a2 is tomorrow
<knome> hmm. what do you think?
<knome> what was it why we had the respin?
<charlie-tca> Must be done by 1400 UTC 2 feb
<pleia2> we can continue this discussion later, I was just bringing it up from site/marketing side since I'd need text if we are releasing
<knome> pleia2, you free to work on the text as well?
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> I mean yeah
<knome> #action knome and pleia2 to prepare writing an alpha2 release announcement with others if needed
<meetingology> ACTION: knome and pleia2 to prepare writing an alpha2 release announcement with others if needed
<knome> so, artwork
<charlie-tca> o/
<knome> charlie-tca, m?
<charlie-tca> for the release notes... Installing from the cd menu is failing, however, allowing the cd to spin until it stops at "try Xubuntu" "Install Xubuntu" lets it work
<charlie-tca> for the desktop images
<charlie-tca> ..
<pleia2> thanks charlie-tca 
<knome> thanks :)
<knome> #info there is a wallpaper draft at http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft9.png
<knome> #info any feedback is welcome in the following week
<knome> #info if everything seems fine, we'll formally decide about using the wallpaper in the meeting next week
<knome> #subtopic General updates
<knome> any general updates?
<knome> ok, none
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info Xubuntu LTS proposal for 3-year LTS releases is accepted.
<knome> #topic Other business
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> #action GridCube to gather a list of problems with QA tracker
<meetingology> ACTION: GridCube to gather a list of problems with QA tracker
<knome> is there any, since there hasn't been an update?
<knome> #info This action item will be removed in the next meeting if no issues are raised.
<knome> #info knome to keep investigating possibilities of getting Ubiquity "application sets" included is done - astraljava is working on it
<knome> #action micahg or mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg or mr_pouit to confirm xfce package versions in precise
<knome> i suppose we know this soon...
<knome> #action micahg to look at the thunderbird button issue
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to look at the thunderbird button issue
<knome> #action ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to investigate some cherry-picking from xfce upstream to ubuntu
<knome> carried
<micahg> I don't think we have a choice but to use 4.8.x
<knome> ...aaaand the website stuff is sorted out :)
<knome> micahg, i suppose ochosi wanted to know some specific lib versions, but he can follow-up with you on that
<knome> any other business we'd like to raise?
<knome> err, right
<knome> #info Meeting next week is postponed to 18UTC.
<knome> #action knome to inform the devel ML about the changes
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to inform the devel ML about the changes
<knome> -s :P
<knome> #nedmeeting
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Feb  1 17:45:29 2012 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-02-01-17.00.moin.txt
<knome> #nedflanders
<knome> thanks
<pleia2> :)
<charlie-tca> Thanks for chairing, knome 
<madnick> :)
<knome> thanks for attending
<knome> madnick, heh, hey
<Unit193> Now he shows u[
<madnick> i was here all along lol
 * knome will update the minutes
<Unit193> I made a comment, or two
<astraljava> Hey! I was here, too. Put that up there, as well!
<knome> :P
<knome> astraljava, you contributed two lines
<astraljava> Oh.
<astraljava> dang
<Unit193> Unit193 (1)
<Unit193> Well, going to resync the images soon enough it seems
<knome> meeting minutes are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<pleia2> ticket submitted :) #19245
<knome> yup! great
<knome> pleia2, so, http://wp.xubuntu.org/press/
<knome> pleia2, you okay with changing that to have subpages, like http://wp.xubuntu.org/press/11.10/ ?
<pleia2> aaand meeting notes tweeted
<pleia2> knome: oh yeah, that's fine
<knome> (i can do that, just wanted to check with you)
<knome> okay great
<knome> http://wp.xubuntu.org/developertools/ still needs reviewing/feedback
<knome> haven't had much time to think about it
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I need to run downstairs for some breakfast, brb
<knome> and what about http://wp.xubuntu.org/about/ ? should we take some time in the near future to review the draft by beardygnome
<pleia2> it'll need to be expanded upon a lot, there is only a very basic draft before the proposal about comparing to proprietary OSes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Drafts
<GridCube> hello charlie-tca 
<GridCube> so you can not install xubuntu in any other language than english then?
<charlie-tca>   No, when the cd stops, you can pick a language, then pick whether to try or install
<charlie-tca> You just don't go to the cd menu anymore
<GridCube> oh... ok
<GridCube> will try it again then
<charlie-tca> When you pick a language on that screen it stops at, the installer changes to the language picked
<GridCube> i dont understand
<charlie-tca> Let it go until it stops, then pick the language on the left side. That should change the installer language
<GridCube> it just boots into the live cd
<GridCube> there are no options if i dont press any key on the cd
<GridCube> there is this keyboard icon next to an accessibilty logo, then waits then boots the live session
<knome> pleia2, press/ done :)
<charlie-tca> don't hit any keys on that screen. It should stop in a minute, with languages on the left, and two choices, try or install
<pleia2> knome: much better!
<knome> yeah
<GridCube> charlie-tca: nope, it goes to a >Xubuntu 12.04 [Â· Â· Â· Â·] and stays like that for a long, long time
<GridCube> and now it got to live session
<charlie-tca> it should stop. it does go to Xubuntu 12.04... for a while, yes. but it should have stopped 
<GridCube> ooooo D: 
<GridCube> 10 minutes to get the same as the thing you got in 5seconds of booting before
<GridCube> this is progress!
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> if it doesn't stop before the live desktop, that is a bug in VBox
<GridCube> ok i got to the selection thing now, it did not happen last week
<GridCube> but its really slow
<charlie-tca> GridCube: might have to increase the video memory or ram
<charlie-tca> I been running hardware tests here. My VBox machines use 64MB video and 500mb ram
<charlie-tca> alternate images are up, still waiting for new desktop images
<GridCube> im zsyncking alternate now, but its slow, the old desktop images do not have network on vbox
<GridCube> charlie-tca: i gave this box almost 1gb of ram
<charlie-tca> should be working then
<GridCube> oh, but i have only 12mb of video ram :P
<charlie-tca> That's the slowdown then :(
<Unit193> I found it actually faster since it bypasses maybe-ubquity :P
<charlie-tca> Unit193: but GridCube has not been able to get the installs to work by using the cd menu
<GridCube> i don't like this thing, this mayby ubiquity
<Unit193> I didn't get it with that little VRam
<olbi> hello :D
<GridCube> hola olbi :)
<olbi> who will be on FOSDEM? :0
<Unit193> I'm not really fond of it either, it's basically the same as the old system just has added resource usage
<olbi> I fly at Friday evening
<olbi> and want make interview with you guys :D
<olbi> in front of camera :)
<charlie-tca> olbi: I don't know that we have anyone scheduled for FOSDEM
<GridCube> olbi: i think people at xfce will be going
<astraljava> ochosi will be there.
 * Unit193 will not be
 * charlie-tca will not be, either
 * GridCube lives in argentina, and has no idea what you people is talking about
<charlie-tca> pleia2: release note: Xubuntu upgrade testing not done for alpha2 
<pleia2> ok, started collecting notes for the announcement here: Installing from the cd menu is failing, however, allowing the cd to spin until it stops at "try Xubuntu" "Install Xubuntu" lets it work
<pleia2> gah
<pleia2> Installing from the cd menu is failing, however, allowing the cd to spin until it stops at "try Xubuntu" "Install Xubuntu" lets it work
<pleia2> fail at paste
<pleia2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LAJrffm6R63TIGnNBKaBpDMaAevAScIrzNw1ibBpEjI/edit
<charlie-tca> yup
<pleia2> there we go
<pleia2> anyone should be able to edit that
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will try to remember to add anything else there
<charlie-tca> new desktop images are up
<GridCube> im still installing the old ones :(
<GridCube> so i cannot report them?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Apparently ubiquity crashing at installation makes further package installations not working, too. A fresh live session is able to install packages.
<charlie-tca> GridCube: need to sync again
<GridCube> :(
<charlie-tca> reporting bugs with them will make the bug people ask if you will try the latest image
<GridCube> see this is a problem for the qa tracker
<charlie-tca> Why? it shows the latest image
<GridCube> i already started the install, it takes hours to zsync
<GridCube> and to install
<charlie-tca> That is not a tracker issue, though
<GridCube> but im doing a test on an image and then i can not report it because it has changed
<charlie-tca> I have the same issue here. Respins do happen often during the milestone testing
<GridCube> i have a eta of 300minutes for the alternate image now
<charlie-tca> That is not a tracker issue, though. Any time the image changes, the report is invalid
<GridCube> yeah, well, but then what we do is useless
<charlie-tca> It doesn't matter where it is tracked, reports using the old image don't count
<GridCube> alkisg: it might just take a long long time
<charlie-tca> We have always tried to get most of the serious bugs fixed for milestones. Daily testing is different, and we don't push new images with each fix
<GridCube> also today's images have been updated for some reasons so you might need to update them and try again
<alkisg> GridCube: I think I'll try starting over with alpha-1, and upgrading from there...
<alkisg> I just downloaded the daily CD an hour ago - you mean I should wait until tomorrow?
<astraljava> GridCube: That is called a QA process. And you're starting to get a feel of why coders loathe QA folks with a passion. :D
<astraljava> j/k, of course
<GridCube> :D
<alkisg> About the time, it's been 20 minutes already, in a single step, with no cpu/disk/network use at all, so I suspend it's just blocked
<alkisg> I also tried clicking on the [Skip] ubiquity button, but it's not responding
<GridCube> alkisg: update the image to the latest one, it got realeased i guess a few minutes ago
<GridCube> alkisg: you know how to use zsync?
<alkisg> GridCube: I've used it in the past, but I think it'll take me more to set it up again than to re-download from scratch :)
<GridCube> not really
<GridCube> alkisg: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/206/builds/11157/downloads
<alkisg> Ty, let me try it...
<GridCube> anyway i just killed my test install and im zsyncking again, withmy speed, its eta is 405 minutes
<charlie-tca> I don't know if you can get the link if you are not signed into qa tracker, but the images are at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<charlie-tca> I know.
<charlie-tca> GridCube: this is why there will be no upgrade tests for us this time, too
<alkisg> ETA: 2 mins instead of my usual 15, much faster :)
<charlie-tca> I don't have 12 hours to run the upgrades
<GridCube> charlie-tca: im not signed in and i got the links
<charlie-tca> Oh, okay. Wasn't sure that would work
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> and, yes, it is a constant battle to keep up to date during these milestone testing days
<charlie-tca> I have burned 16 cd-r's now in two days
<charlie-tca> for 4 images
<GridCube> jajaja
<GridCube> the problem comes when you top 70kbs on the best case scenarios
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I know. Maybe you could limit it to either alternate or desktop ?
<charlie-tca> At least get one of them, instead of trying for both?
<GridCube> im trying to do desktop because its the one giving more problems and knome asked to check ubiquity to see wrong stuff to report
<GridCube> i don't understand the rationale behind the change of the language selection taken from boot to after it
<charlie-tca> Okay. I am starting with the alternate images, let's see what we can get done on them.
<GridCube> but i understand tho, that its pretty much the same, you just have to wait 10 minutes for it to load, but its the same
<astraljava> Y U NO USE CD-RWs?
<GridCube> \o/ believe it or not it suddendly went to 300kbs and syncked in less than a minute
<charlie-tca> astraljava: because I haven't found anything reliable to reburn them more than one time
<astraljava> Oh. That sucks. I've used this one DVD since Sept. '10. I consider myself real lucky, then.
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> I can burn a cd-rw two times, then it is dead
<charlie-tca> and that makes cd-r cheaper
<astraljava> Crazy.
<charlie-tca> GridCube: stopped another respin for ltsp installs
<GridCube> you did?
<GridCube> the new image still has the no mouse integration and no network on vbox
<alkisg> The new daily live didn't help either, still stucks at "removing coflicting OS files"... /me will try with alpha-1
<alkisg> Ah, or let me try vbox first, if that works I can just rsync the installation...
<charlie-tca> That's a bug installing using VBox then. It works on hardware
<GridCube> alkisg: alpha1 is deprecated, you should not install it
<GridCube> charlie-tca: i think its the standard vbox integration thats broken
<GridCube> because of the bug on the network too
<charlie-tca> That's possible, the main thing is it will work on hardware
<GridCube> oh, yes, i see what you mean, you can forceit to work in vbox too, it will take your mouse and keyboard, and you will need to recall it with the left ctrl but it works
<alkisg> Hehe vbox mouse doesn't even work with the vbox embedded RDP server + ubuntu rdesktop client :D
 * alkisg tries disabling the "[ ] Enable absolute pointing device"...
<alkisg> Yeah it works fine that way
<alkisg> And paravirtualized networking works too
<charlie-tca> GridCube: alkisg seems to have the fix you need to test in VBox?
<alkisg> ...and it passed the part where it hanged before. Maybe something in my partitioning made it hang.
<GridCube> where is that option alkisg ?
<GridCube> enable absolute pointing device?
<GridCube> oh i see
<GridCube> its greyed because im using that box now
<alkisg> Under "System"
<GridCube> but its installing
<alkisg> Yes, you need to turn it off first
<GridCube> yep
<GridCube> well will try it later
<alkisg> I'm trying that, and paravirtualized networking, both work fine
<alkisg> It appears like I'll have a successfull installation in a few minutes, will need to transfer it over the network afterwards to the real hardware... :-/
<GridCube> alkisg:  alpha2 its not proper for a daily use, you do know that?
<alkisg> GridCube: I'm using ubuntu precise myself from alpha1 without any serious problem, is xubuntu in a much worse state?
<alkisg> Because of the desktop environment changes in gnome, I want to test different environments on a daily basis, to decide which will suit us better (about 250 schools)
<GridCube> no, its just not a good idea
<charlie-tca> As long as you use it knowing it could break bad anytime, it's fine
<GridCube> when 12.04 comes out yes, but it changes everyday a lot
<alkisg> We need to decide that first, then debug our programs on that environment, and be ready for release... so it needs to be done before release
<alkisg> Yeah sure no problem
<GridCube> oh okay then :)
<alkisg> I know what alpha means :)
<GridCube> :D just making sure, you never know
<alkisg> Indeed :)
<charlie-tca> I agree with GridCube . We have too many installing alpha releases and complaining when they broke for more than a day
<alkisg> How receptive is upstream xfce for small changes requested by communities? E.g. in LTSP we need "reboot" to set an xprop, if it detects "LTSP_CLIENT" in the current environment... LXDE accepted a patch we sent, gnome-session didn't...
<charlie-tca> um, ltsp is broken on the images today, should be fixed by Friday's daily, though.
<micahg> alkisg: upstream I think is pretty accepting
<charlie-tca> Sometimes Xfce is very receptive, and sometimes not so much
<micahg> but mr_pouit would know best
<alkisg> Sounds nice. charlie-tca yes ltsp is broken in all daily cds
<alkisg> Nope, got bitten by LP bug #870643
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 870643 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "package flashplugin-downloader 11.0.1.152ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: wget: unable to resolve host address `archive.canonical.com'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/870643
<GridCube> flashplugin killed ltsp? O_O
<alkisg> No no I meant in my xubuntu installation :D
 * alkisg needed to put an empty paragraph between the two sentences to emphasize they're unrelated :D
<alkisg> Although it's true that flash is one of the worst enemies of LTSP, it requires the most bandwidth + cpu
<GridCube> i could imagine that, does html5 help there?
<alkisg> The main problem is youtube... google-chrome has a nice decoder and can play the videos with low CPU, but firefox suffers
<yofel> hi, how does xubuntu set the gtk3 theme? I'm currently trying to figure out how to do that for kubuntu and would like to know what the other DE's do
<GridCube> yofel: don't really know, ochosi does that things :/
<micahg> alkisg: umm, firefox should be able to play youtube HTML5 videos just fine
<alkisg> micahg: I tested html5 about half a year ago, flash cpu usage = 40%, firefox usage = 45%, google-chrome cpu usage = 10%
<alkisg> I don't know if there were any changes recently
<micahg> there have been lots of changes in Firefox in the past 6 months
<alkisg> Sounds good... I'll try it again when I get a chance
<GridCube> at least 28 version numbers as well :P
<micahg> alkisg: if there's a disparity, Mozilla would be interested in that, it's also easier to get fixes as anything that lands on trunk barring regressions is in the public's hands within 18 weeks
 * alkisg visits youtube.com/html5 to test again... :)
<alkisg> Nope, 50% cpu usage for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt8d3Shlfrg with html5 activated, on my lucid + firefox 9
<alkisg> (without counting xorg)
<micahg> alkisg: which version of chrome has better performance?
<alkisg> micahg: google-chrome, I think, but it's been months since I did proper testing, so I'm not sure about the details, video format etc
<baizon> Firefox 10 + youtube html5 is pretty nice :)
<GridCUbe> ok
<GridCUbe> updated the tracker
<GridCUbe> it installed :)
<ochosi> ahoy
<ochosi> i guess i missed the meeting :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-02
<astraljava> ochosi: Not by much. Only about 6 hours.
<ochosi> astraljava: hehe, and again :)
<astraljava> I see all necessary test cases have been run already. I know time is short, but let me know if you need any further help with that.
<knome> hai.
<knome> astraljava, what's up with ubiquity? :)
<astraljava> Studio's is almost done. I need to go through the debian/* files still, but it's getting there. I haven't done anything today, yet. Just got home from playing badminton.
<astraljava> When I get that reviewed, I should know exactly what to do for Xubuntu's, so that should happen quickly.
<astraljava> Are the meetings reoccurring regularly from now on?
<knome> mm-hmm. great :)
<knome> i'm not sure.
<astraljava> I hate doing calendar entries individually. :)
<knome> that depends on my wife's shifts
<astraljava> Haha!
<knome> i try not to schedule meetings when she's at home
<astraljava> My calendar entries depend on _your wife's_ shifts?
<astraljava> Oh man.
<astraljava> And I'm the last to know
<knome> haha :)
<knome> let me see the cal.
<knome> maybw 15.2 / 21.2 /  2.3.
<knome> *maybe
<astraljava> Yeah that's alright. If it's even semi-regularly, I'm happy to dismiss the reminders when I know it's not happening.
<astraljava> downloading from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20120201.1/precise-desktop-i386.iso:
<astraljava> #################### 100.0% 11467.9 kBps DONE
<astraljava> WHA?!
<knome> lol
<astraljava> That's... 12MB/s.
 * astraljava is officially freaked out.
<knome> meh
<astraljava> Hmm... wait, that's not exactly a week apart. Damn.
<astraljava> Oh yeah.
<knome> yeah, not really. :)
<astraljava> You had the Sunday/Monday thingie.
<astraljava> Ok.
<knome> we did
<knome> but that sucks
<astraljava> Well, just have to pay attention.
<knome> because we need to leave reports to ubuntu-release on thursdays
<knome> and with sun/mon meetings, we're just going to either 1) lack Â½ week behind 2) do extra work collecting things that happened after the meeting
<astraljava> Yeah.
<knome> and because 2) means i'm the one doing it, i'm just changing the meeting day rather
<astraljava> Scott writes them individually for us/US, so we're spared from that.
<knome> well yeah, works with him because he's almost the only one doing technical things :PP
<knome> but i'm not doing
<astraljava> thanks for postponing the next one, btw.
<knome> and i don't even understand all of them
<knome> and i'm not attending the meetings
<astraljava> Yep.
<knome> that's why it's so much easier to pick the email from the meeting logs :)
<knome> err
<knome> meeting minutes rather
<knome> btw, do you have any idea of the size the icons should be for ubiquity?
<knome> i could prepare those for you
<astraljava> 100 x 75
<knome> thanks
<knome> will see about that tomorrow, or so
<astraljava> It's weird, though. There were only two, ltsp.png and fallback.png. In the tutorial there were two different pix, and I don't think neither of them were the fallback pic. But that could have changed since, the tut was for 11.04.
<astraljava> Yeah ok.
<astraljava> We have time. Isn't A-3 two weeks from now?
<astraljava> Oops, there is no such thing.
<astraljava> I suppose it needs to be finished bt UI freeze.
<astraljava> by*
<knome> or FF?
<astraljava> I donÍ't suppose so, as it's a derivative-only feature.
<astraljava> But anyway, we should be able to do that within the next one and a half weeks.
<astraljava> Just in time for FF.
<knome> y
<knome> even if don't *have* to meet the deadlines, it would be good anyway
<knome> keeps stuff going
<astraljava> Yep.
<astraljava> I just have like a gazillion things to do, so I need to schedule real hard now. :)
<knome> congrats ;)
<knome> and welcome to the club
<astraljava> Heheh.
<astraljava> I never left it.
<skaet> knome, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview - could you please take a pass and update the Xubuntu section?  (new features and issues you want to warn folks about)
<skaet> madnick, ^ 
<skaet> astraljava, ^ if you're around, could you help out?  am not seeing any response from knome or madnick.
<madnick> skaet: what is the deadline for that information?
<skaet> madnick,  should have been in place by this morning, so its on the critical path now for the release.  ie. as soon as possible please. 
<madnick> i know of a few things that should go in, but i am a bit confused about when it will be done
<skaet> madnick,  just put your best guess in for now,  we'll edit as we learn more info. 
<skaet> any improvement at this point, is much appreciated.   Thanks. :)
<madnick> ochosi: knome 
<knome> madnick, madnick 
<knome> i can see if i can update that later. we have a draft for A2 release notes
<knome> err, let me fix that: pleia2 has :)
<knome> ...aand that's at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LAJrffm6R63TIGnNBKaBpDMaAevAScIrzNw1ibBpEjI/edit?pli=1 :P
<knome> i fixed that so it's easier to drop in to the wikipage
<knome> i need to go really soon
<pleia2> I just woke up and my eyes are tired
<pleia2> we do alpha2, yes?
<pleia2> we never did an alpha1 announcement
<knome> ugh
<knome> as fas as i know, we should have all of that information in the meeting minutes
<knome> (that we should have in a2 announcement, or the technical overview
<knome> so can somebody please go through those?
<knome> i really need to go now, but i will be back later today
<knome> see you, and thanks in advance if anyone picks it up :)
<ochosi> madnick?
<madnick> ochosi: was going to ask about features for alpha 2, wondering if you had some stuff :) 
<ochosi> oh, hm, not sure :)
<ochosi> i'm not entirely sure about the package-versions of alpha2
<ochosi> you could take a quick peek whether the elementary-xfce icon-theme is already uploaded/included
<ochosi> same with a newer version of greybird than oneiric's
<ochosi> sorry to be so ignorant, i've been far too busy with other stuff to be able to stay on top of those things
<ochosi> madnick ^
<madnick> ochosi: same for me :(
<madnick> I read the logs
<ochosi> but anyway, those are the potential changes from my side
<madnick> And I found no definate answers
<madnick> i guess we can run with the current info
<madnick> and talk more on the next meeting
<ochosi> where can i check what's in alpha2?
<madnick>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview
<ochosi> no, i mean the concrete package-versions and package-lists
<madnick> hmm not sure
<ochosi> that page you linked to says "mouche/touchpad" instead of "mouse"
<ochosi> micahg: gmusicbrowser 1.1.9 released (http://gmusicbrowser.org/devel.html), last rc before the next "stable". so feel free to push it to debian and then ubuntu ;)
<micahg> ochosi: ok, thanks, not happening until next week though unless alessio beats me to it
<ochosi> micahg: okeydokey, but it'll reach us/ubuntu before ff?
<micahg> yep
<ochosi> coolio
<ochosi> ty!
<micahg> I can sync before it hits testing
<pleia2> madnick: is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview#Xubuntu accurate? (a review by knome or yourself is still noted there)
<madnick> pleia2: seems to be gone now
<knome> humh
<knome> nobody checked the meeting minutes?
<madnick> knome: i did review them, but did not know what was for a2 etc
<knome> right
<knome> we didn't have a1?
<madnick> im sorry i g2g i be back later tonight
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll handle this
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview/Alpha2#Xubuntu
<knome> okay, i updated the page
<knome> skaet, ^
<skaet> thanks knome
<skaet> :)
<knome> np. hope to be able to deliver them more promptly in the future. that's why i've been trying to use meetingology as much as possible
<micahg> woohoo, new GIMP point release
<knome> micahg, why did the discussion at #ubuntu-mozillateam stop? :P
<micahg> well, I can't really fix anything in this regard, I just have ideas :)
<knome> mmh, well
<knome> i think chrisccoulson has been a bit reluctant to let it go
<micahg> and I gave my idea, but Chris needs to respond
<knome> so maybe we can get a bit forward now...
<micahg> well, I think he wants to avoid a thousand bug reports about a broken start page :)
<knome> hah
 * micahg needs to focus on Firefox 10 ATM, we can try to drive this next week though
<knome> sure
<knome> thanks anyway
<micahg> and he might respond in a bit, it's 8PM there
<knome> yup
 * micahg grumbles about the svn version of abiword that was just uploaded
<knome> hmh
<mr_pouit> micahg: well, now we can't say that the maintainer is inactive ;-[
<micahg> heh, I have no problems with the Debian uploads, just a lack of restraint on the part of the Ubuntu people
 * micahg thinks it's time for that e-mail to ubuntu-devel about respecting flavors
<knome> yayy
<mr_pouit> erk, I thought you were speaking of the debian upload
<mr_pouit> that's bad
<mr_pouit> and people always forget to check about packagesets anyway =]
<micahg> yeah, it's been a problem off and on, some people like the latest crack not realizing that the flavor devs don't
<pleia2> knome: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LAJrffm6R63TIGnNBKaBpDMaAevAScIrzNw1ibBpEjI/edit?pli=1 looking good?
<pleia2> (getting ready to post this on our site)
<knome> worksforme
<pleia2> great
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/precisealpha2
<knome> yup
<pleia2> oops, forgot /news/
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/precisealpha2
<pleia2> better
<baizon> thank you <3
<pleia2> now copying over to wp too
<pleia2> aaand tweeted
<baizon> hmm
<baizon> got the rss msg
<baizon> but i thought with alpha 2 the new web site would be unleashed :D
<pleia2> skaet: I got the fridge post out too :)
<skaet> pleia2, :D
<knome> baizon, not really. we have a ticket pending. the site is out whenever somebody from IS works on it
<baizon> ok
 * knome softly harrasses the IS folks
<knome> we just moved from queue #20 to ~queue #6
<knome> pleia2, you think we could write a new article about the new site today?
<pleia2> knome: yeah, on the wordpress blog itself?
<knome> yup
<knome> exactly
<pleia2> I won't get to it until later (really, really need to focus on work) but I can get to it in 6 hours or so
<knome> ummh, well that's a long time from now
<knome> i'll start writing it and will let you continue with it later :)
<pleia2> ok :)
<knome> http://wp.xubuntu.org/news/precisealpha2/ <- bumped "updates" and "known" to headers in that page, is it better?
<pleia2> yes
<knome> good :)
<ochosi> knome: i just read: website released?! :)
<ochosi> but xubuntu.org still looks old'n'boring
<knome> ochosi, well, not yet!
<knome> ochosi, we're #6 in queue
<knome> ochosi, probably gets done tomorrow
<ochosi> so how many years from now?
<ochosi> ah :)
<knome> HAHA
<knome> yeah...
<knome> well, we were #20
<ochosi> when?
<knome> 5 minutes ago, before i harrassed IS softly
<knome> mr_pouit, SO, when is shimmer-themes uploaded?
<knome> ochosi, did you already see the newest wallpaper draft? (#9)
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-draft9.png
<ochosi> hm, not sure, i saw one with the bird
<ochosi> if that was #9 then yes
<knome> bird is in since #6
<knome> but yeah, you probably saw the latest
<knome> jono, hey
<knome> jono, you know when you enter, there will be three lines of clientcrap?
<jono> hey knome
<jono> what does it say?
<knome> jono, well, first you join with your sbcglobal.net host, then part, then join again with cloak
<jono> can you paste this?
<knome> jono, either set a delay in joining the channels or register with the "server" pass
<knome> sure, just a sec
<jono> knome, dude, is it that big of a deal?
<jono> :-)
<Unit193> http://pastebin.com/fuVrgDV5
<knome> jono, well yeah, it is actually 6 lines in a 80Ã24 window :/
<ochosi> heh :)
<knome> jono, and that's just a stupid error and trivial to fix in most clients...
<jono> ..erm, I guess I don't the big deal :-)
<jono> how do I fix it?
<knome> jono, which client are you using?
<jono> XChat-GNOME
<knome> jono, /set irc_join_delay 3
<knome> that should fix it
<jono> ok, will re-connect to test
<knome> hmm, try with 5 :)
<Unit193> Failed :P
<knome> you might have too many channels for 3sec delay
<pleia2> using a server password is the best solution
<jono> better?
<jono> oh dude
<jono> hang on
<jono> pleia2, can you do that for Freenode?
<Unit193> Or SASL (But doesn't always work for me)
<pleia2> jono: yeah, instead of sending a message to nickserv, you send that same password as a "server password" and it identifies you upon connect
<knome> yep
<knome> that's the best solution - i only know how to do that on irssi though ;)
<Unit193> And as a trick, put that password as jono:ilikedancingponies to always work with your nick
<pleia2> I think xchat has a spot for the server password in the connection dialog
<knome> Unit193, HOW DID YOU KNOW HIS PASSWORD!!
<jono> how do I unset the 2 second delay?
<Unit193> knome: Oh dear, did I put it in channel again? Sorry..... ;)
<knome> jono, /set irc_join_delay 1 :)
<jono>  /set irc_join_delay 0
<jono> oops
<jono> oknow I will set the server pass
<jono> brb, testing
<knome> YAYY
<Unit193> Hey!
<Unit193> Magic!
<knome> jono, thanks :)
<jono> better?
<jono> awesome, thanks guys
<jono> you learn a new thing every day :-)
<jono> thanks knome! :-)
<knome> heh, np
<Unit193> Now knome, if only I can get you to tell the rest that do that :P
<knome> it's just as annoying as awaynicks ;)
<Unit193> knome: How about this: *** R00T_ATI e' away (See you in another life brotha!)
<knome> hu? :P
<Unit193> Away messages plus the away nick
<knome> heh
<ochosi> knome: have you tried the wp on a single screen yet?
<ochosi> (with the default xfdesktop setting, dunno, i guess it's "auto")
<knome> ochosi, the idea is to cut it to two parts
<ochosi> ah
<knome> ochosi, so there will be no such problems :)
<ochosi> so which one do you wanna have as default?
<knome> i think the right one
<ochosi> if you can provide me with that part, i'd be happy to try it for a few days
<ochosi> (your current export is a bit too low-res to really use it)
<knome> ochosi, what size do you want?
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-9-right.png
<knome> ochosi, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/wall-9-left.png
<astraljava> Unit193: re: away messages; that's what /ignore is for.
<Unit193> astraljava: No, that's what /kb is for :D  (or /knockout if you're feeling nice)
<astraljava> :)
 * knome is excited about the new website
<knome> pleia2, http://willyou.typewith.me/p/xubuntu12newsite
<pleia2> knome: great, thanks, I'll take a closer look after this maintenance window (work work)
<knome> sure, np
<knome> pleia2, at some point, we might want to add the "quick links" on top of the white area :)
<knome> pleia2, with white icons and small text :)
<knome> SiDi raised a concern that the links are not really in the optimal place...
<pleia2> knome: didn't we move them away from being on top?
<pleia2> I don't care either way
<knome> pleia2, i mean, don't have to be big ones
<knome> pleia2, just for usability :)
<knome> pleia2, i have to play with that though
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: i know you are both busy, but... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alacarte/+bug/925801
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 925801 in alacarte (Ubuntu) "Installing alacarte installs half of GNOME" [Undecided,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-03
<astraljava> Are recommends installed by default these days? gnome-panel might do it, if yes.
<knome> yup, they are
<knome> since what, few releases at least...
<astraljava> Well, there you have it, then.
<knome> add it to the comments, then ;)
<knome> well, i suppose i know it being gnome-panel
<knome> *knew
<astraljava> I don't care, I won't need it. :)
<astraljava> And I'm not _that_ karma-hungry. :D
<knome> mrr
<micahg> knome: that's why we don't ship it
<knome> ship what?
<knome> alacarte
<knome> right
<knome> :)
<micahg> it needs a file from gnome-menus to function, that's why it does that
<knome> does gnome-menus pull unity? :P
<micahg> wait, it's gnome-panel that does it, idr, what the issue was, we went through it last cycle
<knome> mmh
<knome> whatever it is, i think this should be fixed
<knome> packaging-wise
<micahg> not sure if that's possible, we have to see why gnome-panel is a recommends
<knome> mm, sure
<knome> just added a bug to be able to follow up on that
<pleia2> I think I'd rather have people submit bugs against the website (rather than email -devel)
 * pleia2 works on doc
<knome> pleia2, fine by me
<knome> :)
<knome> didn't really think of that
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+filebug ftw
<j1mc> xubuntu alpha 222222! yeay.
<knome> ugh nvm that one
<Unit193> knome: I just hate when they subscribe a list
<knome> j1mc, wow, that's a lot of alphas!!! did we skip the first 222221 ?
<pleia2> made a couple little edits, but I think it's great otherwise, thanks knome :)
 * knome AAAAAAAAAAAARGHS
<knome> way too late :((
 * micahg wonders if a mouche is a shorter version of a moustache
<knome> or mouse+touch?
<pleia2> knome: soon it'll be early!
<knome> anyway, going to bed :)
<knome> yeah i know! :(
<j1mc> knome: you have gotten done more than you know.
<pleia2> good night :)
<j1mc> good night, knome 
<knome> j1mc, always ;)
<knome> nini and have a nice day you lot
<knome> ->
<pleia2> http://www.xubuntu.org/
<pleia2> it is done :D!!!!
<Unit193> Awesomeness!!!
<Unit193> Now I can ping you again if I see errors ;)
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> report bugs!
<Unit193> I hate that :(
<Unit193> It's owned bt Canonical? Alrighty
<Unit193> So, can you hotlink/tag the FAQ for direct link? (As in http://www.xubuntu.org/news/faq-1110-oneiric#compiz or #menus)
<pleia2> not as it's written now
<Unit193> Darnie (And I'm giving you less congrats and more questions :( )
<pleia2> Unit193: I am going to bed soon :P
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+filebug
<pleia2> :)
<Unit193> So I should stop looking at the pages?
<pleia2> maybe give us a day to celebrate before more work?
<pleia2> filing bugs would be good, I can look at those as I have time
<Unit193> Yes ma'am! I'll see if I can force astraljava to "find" them ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> finding bugs on the site is helpful, I appreciate it, but I really am headed to bed, long day
<Unit193> Have a good rest! (Danit, found deadlinks :...( )
<pleia2> bug report!
<pleia2> good night
 * pleia2 fails at sleep
<pleia2> Unit193: shoot
<Unit193> Wrong channel.... And ready/wanting to kill?
<pleia2> right channel! we do web devel here too :)
<Unit193> http://pastebin.com/CTFN83cK my basic notes :P
<pleia2> thanks :)
<pleia2> doh, it's ubuntu-docs
<Unit193> Err... Forget the last part....
<pleia2> I don't actually know how we do translations
<Unit193> I went like a monkey and clicked links 'til Aurora got slow :D
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> want me to just submit bugs as I encounter ones I don't know how to fix myself, or would you like the bug submitting fun?
<Unit193> I really hate it, but I'll do it as I really should :/
<Unit193> I'm supposed to help, not just dump on others :P
<pleia2> thank you :)
<pleia2> submit one about the rosetta link, I don't know if we use that, or what the proper alt url is
<Unit193> Anything I can actually help with?
 * pleia2 hunts down https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation/Wiki/ToDo
<pleia2> that wasn't so bad, all sorted :)
<pleia2> we're actually going to rewrite all the contribute/ stuff and do a sweep of the Xubuntu/* stuff on the wiki, lots of scattered information
<Unit193> Bug #925912 not really the best, but reported
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 925912 in Xubuntu Website "On the "Translation and Localization" page, "Rosetta translation system" redirects" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/925912
<Unit193> You also could have made me hunt for it like I should have :P
<pleia2> thanks for reporting it :)
<Unit193> Yeppers, now I'm not sure if I should try to find more, or ignore them ;)
<pleia2> haha
<Unit193> (Though, I'm pretty sure I was supposed to do this before :P )
<pleia2> mhmm
<knome> Unit193, fixed
<Unit193> Heyhey! Quick one
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | WE'RE LIVE! | Support at #xubuntu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Bugs List: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/PrecisePangolin | Daily Testing results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<knome> yeah
<knome> fixed at http://www.xubuntu.org/contribute/translating/ ;]
<Unit193> Heh, that's an interesting link
<knome> ok, i'm off. keep filing bugs if you hit them, and i'll fix them later today if possible
<Unit193> Heh
<Unit193> 04:59 I'm not even looking
<astraljava> Unit193: Well, I could take a look at it on w3m.
<astraljava> Unit193: Why do you hate filing bugs?
<pleia2> knome: want me to publish the website blog post?
<knome> i was just about to do that when my nose started dripping on blood ;)
<pleia2> no fun!
<knome> yeah, not really
<pleia2> updating the feed for planet
<knome> so yeah, it's fine :)
<knome> to publish, i mean ;)
<pleia2> great
<knome> maybe come up with an interesting title
<knome> "An adventure near too far!"
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> hmm
<knome> or so
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> try to make the latest news a bit more lively
<knome> not just "Xubuntu nn released"
<knome> ;)
<knome> Ã5...
<knome> huh
<knome> http://www.xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/x4.png
<knome> sometimes returns "page not found" ...
<pleia2> hmm
<knome> replied to the RT ticket
<pleia2> Finally, thanks to the following people who helped make this happen: Pasi Lallinaho (knome), Elizabeth Krumbach (pleia2), Mad Nick (madnick), Bruno A. Benitez (GridCube), Phil Whitaker (beardygnome) and Steve Dodier (SiDi)
<pleia2> is that everyone?
<knome> Simon SteinbeiÃ (ochosi)
<knome> ... and all the others who helped us testing the site or gave any feedback.
<pleia2> oh yes, Unit193 over there
<knome> heh :)
<pleia2> Pasi Lallinaho (knome), Elizabeth Krumbach (pleia2), madnick, Bruno A. Benitez (GridCube), Simon SteinbeiÃ (ochosi), Phil Whitaker (beardygnome), Unit193, Steve Dodier (SiDi) and all the others who helped us testing the site or gave any feedback.
<pleia2> :)
<knome> yup
<knome> looks great
<pleia2> I still don't have a title :)
<knome> hmm.
<pleia2> I don't think we want it to be *too* abstract
<knome> heh ;)
<knome> Refreshing the web-presence
<knome> or sth
<pleia2> it was more than a refresh, whole redevelopment
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> Redeveloping the web presence ;)
<knome> nah
<knome> Bringing the web presence to 2012
<pleia2> I think that's good
<knome> mmh
<pleia2> should it be "the" or "our"?
<knome> our is better
<pleia2> "Bringing Our Web Presence to 2012"
<knome> if you want to be american, then yes ;P
<pleia2> haha, the capitalization?
<knome> yeah, that
<knome> i think we might need to think the "official" norm
<pleia2> looks like we've not done so many capitals in the past, so I won't be american
<knome> heh, yeah
<pleia2> "Bringing our web presence to 2012" it is!
<knome> yeayy!
<knome> heh, just noticed "News Links" vs "Quick links" ;)
<knome> i'll fix that
<pleia2> that would be me again with the News Links :)
<pleia2> ok, publishing!
<pleia2> http://www.xubuntu.org/news/webpresence2012/
<knome> WOOO! :)
<pleia2> ah, we like xubuntu.org rather than www.xubuntu.org? I updated wp.xubuntu.org in the wordpress config last night to be www.xubuntu.org
<knome> awwh :)
<knome> well, it's not a biggie
<knome> though i prefer non-www. links
<pleia2> I can drop the www. in wordpress
<knome> sure
<knome> i wasn't sure if that was a WP or redirect issue
<knome> could've been both
<pleia2> both
<knome> khihi ;)
<pleia2> it doesn't redirect you to either one and in wordpress it goes to www
<knome> mm
<pleia2> ok, fixed, you will probably need to log in again
<knome> yup
<knome> i fixed some of the capitalization stuff
<pleia2> :)
<knome> do we have screenshots for the tour?
<knome> and
<pleia2> can grab from https://www-admin.xubuntu.org
<knome> and/or actually: should we strive to have a slideshow with the ubiquity-slides
<pleia2> gah, all our image links re being broken
<knome> i mean, that shouldn't be too hard with the slideshow plugins
<knome> no.
<knome> they are not.
<knome> they just don't ALWAYS
<knome> work
<pleia2> annoying thing
<knome> yeah.
<knome> huh. i might have solved a long-standing bug
<knome> well, let's say triaged
<knome> i'm not sure how to fix that, but once i do, we need an another update for the website
<knome> (sometimes the slideshow advances too fast, that's because jquery is kind of enqueuing the transitions while you look into another tab)
<knome> so the longer you stay away from the tab, the more times the slideshow advances automatically in a really short time
<knome> now i need to see if i can get information on if we are actually looking or not
<knome> :)
<pleia2> ah, I assumed it was just my browser being weird :)
<knome> heh, me too.
<astraljava> Yeah, we've all wondered about pleia2's browser.
<knome> ;)
<GridCube_> from #xubuntu: [15:24] <ParkerR> Just wanted to say I'm in love with Xubuntu :D
<Unit193> Heh, I'm the only one without a name :P
<pleia2> madnick too
<pleia2> I secretly know your name, but I am under the assumption that it was given in confidence (holiday card)
<astraljava> It's not a secret when google knows about it.
<Unit193> Yes, yes it was
<Unit193> pleia2: I'm going to assume you looked up last too :P
<knome> hahah, that would've been the xubuntu mistake of the decade
<knome> "oops, your name is now on our website - and google"
<GridCube_> http://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/xubuntu
<astraljava> Noice!
<GridCube_> they have the old logo tho :P
<pleia2> we had the old logo until yesterday ;)
<GridCube_> :P
<GridCube_> mmm i've seen the new logo on every boot since 11.10 :P
<knome> pleia2, don't do as we do, do as we say
<knome> damn that infian chicken we prepared was good
<astraljava> infian? Something like martian, but... not quite?
<knome> erf
<knome> :P
<knome> exactly.
<knome> i secretly put it a bit of extra chili
<knome> ERR
<knome> IN
<astraljava> Looks like it was good, but it might have gone bad.
<knome> it could have had yet a bit more chili
<knome> or lots more
<astraljava> Sure, but spices were only added to camouflage the fact the meat had gone bad.
<astraljava> You'd still get the symptoms.
<knome> hah
<knome> well, the chicken had the last use date today
<astraljava> Not if you asked her.
<knome> now you lost me :)
<astraljava> The chick.
<astraljava> I'm sure she'd have disagreed.
<knome> heh
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-04
<astraljava> micahg: Damn, the preferred application still gets set to "No application selected", but I have no idea what causes it.
<ochosi> hi everyone, checking in from fosdem
<ochosi> bbl
<ochosi> re
<astraljava> Hi there Simon, having a good time?
<ochosi> astraljava: yup :)
<baizon> new page live, thanks guys <3
<baizon> love it
<ochosi> astraljava: you were interested in the wayland-talk, right?
<astraljava> Sure.
<ochosi> k, it's in ~4hrs, think i'll attends that lecture (gah, internet is slow here. most likely everyone is pulling stuff from git)
<astraljava> Ok. I should be back from playing badminton at that time. Yeah I would think it's high traffic there. :)
<baizon> hmm
<baizon> are there plans to add the posibility to edit the applications menu?
<baizon> with a "gui" application
<Unit193> Already can
<Unit193> Check the FAQ of the website :D
<baizon> hmm
<baizon> will do
<pleia2> yay we have a faq!
<baizon> damn
<baizon> why isnt it installd?
<Unit193> Something to do with having to force the recommends away
<baizon> ok
<Unit193> pleia2: I know!! I just had to say "check the FAQ" :D
<knome> !faw
<knome> mrr
<knome> mrq
<knome> !faq
<ubottu> A list of common questions and answers about Ubuntu: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions - Official documentation: http://help.ubuntu.com
<knome> ...
<knome> !faq
<ubottu> Lists of common questions and answers about Xubuntu can be found at http://xubuntu.org/news/tag/faq/. See also: http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions
<knome> !-faq
<ubottu> faq is <alias> faq-#xubuntu - added by knome on 2012-02-04 22:28:22
<ubottu> faq has no aliases - added by apokryphos on 2006-06-30 13:36:44 - last edited by tsimpson on 2010-01-17 10:49:45
<knome> !-faq-#xubuntu
<ubottu> faq-#xubuntu aliases: faq-#xubuntu-devel, faq-#xubuntu-offtopic - added by knome on 2012-02-04 22:27:57
<knome> ^ !faq works in all #xubuntu -channels
<GridCube> :)
<knome> GridCube, thanks for gathering the faq!
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> it was nothing really :)
<knome> no, it was something
<knome> i should copy my OOOOLD faq to xubuntu.org too
<GridCube> :P
<knome> http://open.knome.fi/2009/07/05/panels-disappearing-and-other-frequently-asked-questions/
<GridCube> knome, for the "in the press" section: http://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/xubuntu
<knome> http://blog.lydiapintscher.de/2012/02/04/open-advice/
<knome> interesting!!
<knome> GridCube, updated at http://xubuntu.org/press/general/
<GridCube> :D will tell you if i find more
<knome> sure
<GridCube> hey knome, your new wallpaper is meant for dual screens?
<GridCube> i mean its loooong
<knome> yep
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/ : there are -left and -right for one-monitor setups
<knome> holstein... if you think we lack some bot factoids at #xubuntu or generally, feel free to ping me :)
<GridCube> i like it, but it feels... gloomy
<knome> mmh. maybe a bit
<knome> we could do a more bright version
<GridCube> i would like if it where happier XD
<knome> well, even if we don't ship that by default, i can provide files for such
<knome> GridCube, sth like http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_wall/old/wall-draft2.png
<holstein> knome: cool... i need to use the bots more anyways
<GridCube> i would like that people installing xubuntu will be welcome with a "Welcome :D We Are Happy You Are Here!"
<knome> yeah, i'll think about that
<knome> i thought that maybe we need to make it a bit more bright here and there
<knome> so maybe that brings some of the uplifting feeling you're after :)
<GridCube> :) i like that last one better 
<GridCube> :P maybe if it had a boat and people fishing, it would like bring a "happy quiet moment" feeling
<knome> mmh, right
<knome> maybe...
<knome> maybe in the left part ;)
<GridCube> :P yep like that bird
<knome> yeah
<knome> kind of a bit extra for those who have two monitors
<knome> and with the boat, both sides would be good to use on single monitor too
<knome> that's a great idea
<knome> thanks! :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-02-05
<micahg> astraljava: where does it get set to that?
<astraljava> micahg: Sometimes, so far totally randomly (to me, but I'm sure there's a specific reason I just haven't figured out yet) whenever a browser is to be called, I get the pop-up that says the preferred application isn't set, even though I have set it several times now in Settings | Settings Manager | Preferred Applications.
<astraljava> micahg: It's like that right now, I just went there and I see it as "No application selected".
<astraljava> micahg: So, if you have any debugging methods, I could run them from now on.
<astraljava> Okay, I've seen an annoying number of *buntu people going to #debian @ oftc.net for support. The reason seems to be that Debian Servers is the first entry in the list of Networks, Ubuntu Servers being the second. Think this should be changed?
<micahg> in XChat?
<pleia2> are any modifications made from Debian to the package?
<pleia2> (I'm assuming the servers list is just the debian default and we don't change that)
<micahg> yes, quite a few
<astraljava> micahg: Yes, xchat.
<astraljava> But probably in some others, too.
<knome> micahg, ohmy, connection problems?
<knome> madnick! where's the settings GUI for your lightdm stuff?
<mr_pouit> micahg: when you have some time, could you look at http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/shimmer-themes_1.1-0ubuntu1.dsc please? (to be sure I didn't miss something stupid that will make it be rejected by from new ;>)
<mr_pouit> hey there
<knome> hey :)
<mr_pouit> #8 from the xubuntu website faq sounds weird to me (where does that +x idea come from?)
<knome> i've no idea
<knome> madnick, can you be in touch about the lightdm and plymouth themes with mr_pouit? he needs the code ASAP :)
<mr_pouit> knome: making alacarte xfce-friendly only needs a sed s/gnome-desktop-item-edit/exo-desktop-item-edit/ (or something like that). Then there's libgnome-menu that supports OnlyShowIn keys depending on the $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP envvar
<knome> is alacarte function-complete?
<knome> edii's been rewriting his menu managing GUI to be a full-fledged menu manager...
<mr_pouit> knome: is XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP set in your session?
<knome> nope
<mr_pouit> knome: mmh, do you have alacarte installed?
<knome> no
<mr_pouit> any chance you could install it to try something? (:
<knome> i'll get back to you in 5mins
<mr_pouit> thanks
<mr_pouit> in short: start it once, confirm that it doesn't show .desktop files containing OnlyShowIn=XFCE;, then open a term, export XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=XFCE, launch alacarte from the term, and check whether it shows more desktop files or not :/
<knome> mr_pouit, meh, i'll do that but you tell me where our "settings" icon comes from
<knome> mr_pouit, yep, what you said is correct
<knome> mr_pouit, the xfce-items show up when the var is set
<mr_pouit> eh \o/
<knome> my experience of alacarte is still kind of bad
<knome> it doesn't seem to handle some separators correctly
<mr_pouit> (filed Bug #927172 as a todo list :p)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 927172 in xfce4-utils (Ubuntu) "set XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=XFCE for alacarte" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927172
<knome> linked to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-xubuntu-menu-managing
<mr_pouit> mmh, alacarte is in universe
<mr_pouit> I guess I can patch it directly then
<GridCube> to not have a gazillion recommends?
<mr_pouit> yeah, to use libgarcon-common instead of gnome-menus, and exo-utils instead of gnome-panel
<ochosi> cool
<knome> GridCube, there is actually only one *direct* recommends ;)
<knome> mr_pouit, omg
<knome> :P
<ochosi> mr_pouit: where/when/how can i test it?
<knome> ochosi, export $XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=XFCE
<knome> ochosi, and then install for now with --no-install-recommends
<ochosi> in precise or oneiric?
<ochosi> (don't have precise yet)
<knome> oneiric is fine as well
<mr_pouit> ochosi: oneiric/amd64?
<ochosi> yup
<knome> ^ that's what i'm using
<ochosi> (ten more minutes, then boarding will start)
<knome> :)
<mr_pouit> you can already try what knome wrote
<ochosi> ok, i'll see whether my connection here is fast enough to do anything apart from irc :)
<mr_pouit> http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/alacarte_0.13.2-2ubuntu4_all.deb
<ochosi> lol, bash: export: `=XFCE': not a valid identifier
<mr_pouit> here's a deb without the extra deps/recommends, and item editing should work without gnome-panel
<mr_pouit> export XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=XFCE, don't put the $
<knome> haha
<knome> right
<knome> sry :D
<knome> of course...
<ochosi> yeah, i know, i was actually laughing a bit about myself back there
<knome> err, do you mean you were literally *laughing your ass (off)*?
<knome> i mean, with "back there"...
<ochosi> yeah, or i meant it temporally rather than spacially
 * ochosi scratches his head
<knome> hehe
<knome> hmm, right, this was a logged channel :)
<ochosi> alacarte started, but i'm not sure it works 100%
<ochosi> but then again, maybe my menu is borked due to ediis menu-editor...
<knome> hah
<ochosi> which is the default location of the menu-file?
<knome> remind you, any editor only edits the menu files
<knome> :P
<knome> (or .desktop files just slightly)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: with XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=XFCE alacarte you should be able to see all desktop files with OnlyShowIn=XFCE
<mr_pouit> (top menu entries, everything in settings, etc.)
<knome> ^ incl. settings manager! 
<ochosi> mr_pouit: right, i'll test that as soon as i have my default xubuntu-menu back
<knome> well, i have the menu by edii... :)
<mr_pouit> it's in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<ochosi> ah right, ty
<mr_pouit> or /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<ochosi> i used the latter
<mr_pouit> (for the vanilla one from upstream)
<ochosi> and that was borked
<knome> HA!
<ochosi> hm, clicking properties on an item in alacarte doesn't work
<mr_pouit> how did you start alacarte?
<ochosi> via appfinder from xfce-master
<mr_pouit> (you have to start it from the same term you exported XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP)
<mr_pouit> (and if you don't use my deb linked above, menu editing won't try to use exo)
<ochosi> http://pastebin.com/vyc41yxs
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> now it works
<ochosi> that's pretty cool actually
<ochosi> ok, g2f now
<ochosi> ttyl
<knome> see you!
<knome> and have a nice flight
<pleia2> hmm, what is our equivalent to the "Disk Ultility" application that other *buntus have in their menu for gui reformatting of something like a usb drive?
<pleia2> writing the xubuntu portion of this full circle magazine article about easy formatting of drives
<pleia2> we don't appear to ship with such a tool
<Unit193> People can install whatever they like...
<pleia2> of course, but for articles you need to at least recommend something, this is something that is default on the other flavors (even lubuntu ships with Disk Utility)
<pleia2> GridCube: can you let me know if there is anything in this thread en espanol I need to know re: the website? :)
<GridCube> what thread?
<knome> GridCube, the development mailing list
<knome> GridCube, three messages in spanish
<knome> GridCube, to which i just replied telling to use english
<pleia2> knome: GridCube is the second replier
<knome> pleia2, i know
<knome> :)
<pleia2> ok :)
<knome> even he should have written in english
<GridCube> oh, yes sorry, i told him to use english too
<pleia2> ok, so for this FCM article I just told people to install Disk Utility
<Unit193> I don't think we need to install everything by default, but I'd love to have a page on the site/wiki with recommends for tasks (or generally)!
<micahg> mr_pouit: yeah, since the upgrade to precise, I"ve had major IRC issues
<micahg> mr_pouit: will take a look at shimmer themes in a but
<micahg> *bit
<knome> micahg, thanks :)
<mr_pouit> thanks
<micahg> mr_pouit: are you getting it into Ubuntu first due to Feature Freeze? 
<mr_pouit> yeah
<micahg> mr_pouit: so far, the only missing thing is a watch file, waiting for the build to finish
<mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, I'm not sure how to do a proper wtahc file with  multiple upstream tarballs =)
<micahg> mr_pouit: W: shimmer-themes: executable-not-elf-or-script usr/share/themes/Greybird/gtk-3.0/progressbar.png
<mr_pouit> yep, that's something I asked ochosi/knome to fix, but I guess they forgot :P
<micahg> mr_pouit: debian #531321
<ubottu> Debian bug 531321 in devscripts "[uscan] support for downloading multiple upstream tarballs" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/531321
<knome> awwh
<knome> mr_pouit, https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/7915c3e74679626fdbf10f1f0d2e284ccf6d4753
<micahg> mr_pouit: the xubuntu-artwork breaks/replaces is superflous, no upgrade path
<micahg> well, unless we're considering backporting this to lucid
<micahg> no home page in debian/control
<micahg> oh, wait, it's in the binary :)
<micahg> that should be part of the source decleration
<micahg> :q
<micahg> oops :)
<mr_pouit> ahah, so I don't have to repeat it
<micahg> right :)
<micahg> otherwise, with those changes, you have an ACK from me for upload
<micahg> watch file optional :)
<micahg> but would be nice
 * micahg guesses the breaks/replaces should stick around until hardy is EOL
<micahg> only another 14 months
<micahg> err...I mean lucid desktop :)
<mr_pouit> I'm not even sure a partially up-to-date lucid will be able to dist-upgrade successfully :P
<mr_pouit> thanks for the review (I guess I'll postpone the debian/watch fot the next upload though ;-)
<micahg> sure
<mr_pouit> (and the breaks/replaces is indeed useless, because they concern files not actually shippedâ¦ bah, probably a wrong copy/paste)
<micahg> well, murrine-themes has the same thing
<micahg> ah right, I got that fixed supposedly :), yeah, it should be xubuntu-artwork (<< 11.10.1) assuming it's shipping the same files
<micahg> we'll need that for lucid -> precise
<micahg> mr_pouit: ^^
<mr_pouit>   * Drop bluebird and greybird themes, move murrine-themes from recommends
<mr_pouit>     to depends.
<mr_pouit> indeed, that was done in 11.10.1
<micahg> I filed debian 638690, don't know if it was ever added there
<ubottu> Debian bug 638690 in murrine-themes "murrine-themes: Needs a higher versioned breaks on xubuntu-artwork" [Minor,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/638690
<mr_pouit> uploaded, thanks for you help
<mr_pouit> knome: [ubuntu/precise] shimmer-themes 1.1-0ubuntu1 (New)
<mr_pouit> (it's not in the archive yet, needs a review by an archive adlmin)
<mr_pouit> *admin
<knome> \o/
<micahg> mr_pouit: there's no bug, right?  I'll leave a note in -release I did a review
<mr_pouit> you know knome and ochosi, they make horrible themes full of bugs ;D
 * mr_pouit runs
<mr_pouit> so, no, hopefully it should be fine
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah, feel free to file bugs...
<micahg> no, I meant a new package bug :)
<knome> if you can find any >;)
<knome> heh, right, it's that mr_pouit guy who's doing the lousy packaging for shimmer
<knome> healways messing things up...
<knome> +'s 
<micahg> again, not what I meant
<knome> AWWH
<knome> :)
<mr_pouit> micahg: no, I didn't introduce new bugs
<mr_pouit> knome: I love you too :P
<knome> hehe
<csenger41> hello
<csenger41> anyone could help me creating a panel applet?
<knome> that's not really completely easy, but you would be better off asking #xfce or #xfce-dev
<csenger41> knome: ohh thank you
<csenger41> joined there, bye
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-28
<ochosi> micahg: seems like you're fighting windmills...
<micahg> knome: if we actually had testers for powerpc, I don't see why we shouldn't make images, our packages aren't that broken on powerpc
<knome> micahg, if we have testers.
<Unit193> There's a way to test it with qemu, and a couple have the hardware.  I might technically have the hardware, cousin was going to get rid of a G4, not sure if he has already.
<micahg> well, I don't want powerpc tested at the expense of x86
<Unit193> Well of course.
<knome> micahg, is there any proof of testers?
<knome> micahg, i overlooked the logs for the discussion, and if it's like "there's 1 guy, and this other who already does all kinds of PPC tests can help too", i'm not sure if we really want it
<micahg> I'll have to ask phill for them
<knome> can you ask him to tell the testers to send an email to -devel so we can see what the situation looks like?
<Unit193> pleia2 said she had one, but didn't have time for more than once in a while.
<astraljava> How many active machines do you imagine are out there, I mean potential Xubuntu users?
<astraljava> And yes, I'm referring to the powerpc discussion, thankyouverymuch.
<Unit193> Well, in theory you could use popcon to see ppc users of xfce4, but I don't see the link right now.
<GridCube> from #xubuntu-es: <jairosuse> Solo quiero dar muchas gracias a este sistema operativo , tiene mucho futuro y solo pienso en extender la Filosofia GNU Linux (translates to: I just wanted to thank you all for this OS, you have a great future and i hope to extend the gnu/linux philosofy
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-29
<micahg> ok, pushed up a branch which should hopefully make amd64 precise ISO size again
<micahg> *alternates
<Unit193> Alternates?
<micahg> yeah, precise had them
<Unit193> Just noted, my bad.
<micahg> knome: which of the following should I drop from i386 on precise: de fr bn hi zh-hans ja, not sure if I should go by size of population since we might have a lot of users in europe
<micahg> everything else should be ISO size in the morning
<micahg> knome: hrm, did we want the backport kernel on our ISOs?
<knome> micahg, i'd say your call
<knome> micahg, are you on the xubuntu-users mailing list?
<ochosi> micahg, knome, mr_pouit: i know we've (kinda) discussed this several times (and i feel the ML is not the right place), but aren't you getting tired of fighting with iso-size for a few mbs all the time? /just_sayin
<knome> yes, but i don't think keeping precise SRU iso's is a matter for discussion
<ochosi> i'm not really referring to that (ofc that's what triggered my comment)
<knome> you might be right that it's not worth to try to target a CD for 14.04
<astraljava> I suppose if you're not wanting to target users with hardware incapable of booting from other media than optical.
<ochosi> astraljava: dvds are also optical
<astraljava> ochosi: Ok, sorry. Yes, that's true. I should have included the "and with limited bandwidth."
<ochosi> well yeah, but limited bandwidth means you better order a cd/dvd anyway
<astraljava> But then of course it depends on how much larger you wanna go.
<ochosi> not sure 800mb vs. 1000mb is really the straw that breaks the camel's neck
<ochosi> i'd go for a 1gb image
<knome> no, definitely not
<astraljava> That much, not really, no. But when you let yourself loose, who's to say how rapidly it begins to increase.
<knome> i am.
<ochosi> astraljava: no reason to do that ;)
<astraljava> No, not really. But it happens. :)
<ochosi> knome: personally i'd consider trying out 1gb image-size with 13.10, as it's not lts we could gather some feedback and decide what's best for 14.04
<knome> ochosi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/S/ISOSizeTransition
<Unit193> If we do that, should document how to use plop with Xubuntu, so they can boot from cd/iso of plop, then flash drive.
<knome> at least nobody is stopping anybody doing that :)
<ochosi> we can also document how to install xubuntu on top of xubuntu-server/minimal
<ochosi> eer
<ochosi> ubuntu-server
<knome> doesn't help those with low bandwidth though
<ochosi> well at some point they'll have to download packages
<ochosi> whether before installing or after installing isn't that important imo
<knome> sure. but you can't download packages as a torrent
<ochosi> true, but i don't see how that is different from getting updates later on
<astraljava> Someone ought to write a plugin for apt to do that.
<ochosi> not sure, maybe there is a way to combine mirrors in a torrent-y way
<micahg> knome: not on xubuntu-users, I guess if we get the quantal backport stack for free, it's not bad
<micahg> ochosi: well, I'm not the XPL
<Noskcaj> is there any reason why the 13.04 installer still says 12.10 when loading?
<mr_pouit> I forgot to bump the version in the xubuntu-text plymouth theme
<mr_pouit> (done now, thanks, will be part of the next xubuntu-artwork upload)
<Noskcaj> next question, why is there no installer background?
<Noskcaj> at least in Vbox
<Noskcaj> sorry to keep question spamming but, for a "light" distro, why does bug 1087409 exist?
<ubottu> bug 1087409 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "*buntu dailys take 3 minutes to get to the next screen if install mp3 is selected." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087409
<xnox> Noskcaj: do you happen to have graphics cards that require proprietary drivers? or can have them?
<Noskcaj> xnox, why? 
<micahg> xnox: does ubiquity wait to download the extra stuff?
<Noskcaj> xnox, i'm just running it in a VM, so will the info still help?
<xnox> Noskcaj: sure. see my comment on the bug report. it's best to get the output from the user who saw 3 minute delay.
<Noskcaj> ok
<xnox> Noskcaj: above command is just a theory as to why the next step is delayed.
<xnox> it takes 11 second to run on my machine =/ but I don't know if it's parallelised or not
<Noskcaj> it's more sometimes, it just seems to be that it loads something fairly big then, rather than in the install
<Noskcaj> xnox, done
<micahg> mr_pouit: maybe change the version output to be lsb_release based/
<xnox> Noskcaj: that's quite special =) I'm struggling to figure out how long it took in total. something like 1m21s?
<Noskcaj> ok, the bug is universal, but only shows up on slow machines, you can guess why
<Noskcaj> that's roughly how long
<mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, I know I should do that (but there's always someone to notice the version number and report it here so it's fine =)
<ochosi> micahg: yeah i know you're not. just didn't feel like pinging only knome
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-30
<ochosi> micahg: forwarding the new xubuntu-meme (courtesy of bluesabre) to you: http://imagebin.org/244741
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> i really love it
<ochosi> should go on our website
<Unit193> That's awesome.
<pleia2> lol
<bluesabre> I just feel like that's the feeling we all get once every few days :)
<Noskcaj> just found a bug in 12.10, at least xubuntu amd64. when you make a program open in half the screen by dragging it to the top, pressing the maximise button maxes the top part of the window go above the screen
<Noskcaj> ping to anyone online
<knome> yes?
<Noskcaj> knome, please read the previous post, just want to check it's not already reported
<Noskcaj> also, bug 1065789, just letting you know
<ubottu> bug 1065789 in ubuntu-website-content "the release notes link in installer points to www.ubuntu.com" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065789
<knome> i don't know if it's reported, but i can confirm
<Noskcaj> knome, ok, any idea what package? also, know anyone able to confirm bug 1087409 or real hardware?
<ubottu> bug 1087409 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "*buntu dailys take 3 minutes to get to the next screen if install mp3 is selected." [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087409
<knome> i believe xfwm4
<knome> re: confirm on real hw: no, not at this moment
<knome> Unit193 maybe
<Noskcaj> how would i best describe the bug?
<astraljava> Every screen? Or is it just downloading the restriced-extras package at that time?
<knome> Noskcaj, your description seems fine and sensible
<Noskcaj> title?
<knome> "Tiling a window + maximizing sends it out of screen" ?
<knome> or sends it partly
<knome> of you paste me the bug number after you've filed, i can make sure it gets the needed attention
<knome> *if
<Noskcaj> 1110158, i'm getting screenshots now
<Noskcaj> bug 1110158
<ubottu> bug 1110158 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Tiling a window + resizeing sends it out of screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1110158
<knome> thanks
<Noskcaj> just found what causes it, mess around with how far up the screen you drag to make it happen
<Noskcaj> and you will see
<Noskcaj> i will check if it affects 13.04 tomorrow
<knome> probably yes since it also has xfce 4.10
<knome> this is a relatively new feature
<Unit193> knome: I'm sorry but I don't know if I know what that response is to.
<pjotr> Hello, I have a question about Xubuntu.
<pjotr> Will there be a second point release of Xubuntu 12.04 (12.04.2)?
<pjotr> ochosi: do you happen to know whether Xubuntu 12.04 will get a second point release (12.04.2)?
<ochosi> pjotr: i think yes, but better wait for someone to confirm it ;)
<pjotr> OK... :)
<pjotr> The point releases are becoming more important because of the new rolling kernel policy for LTS's.... So a Xubuntu 12.04.2 would be cool to have available, especially for installing on very new hardware.
<knome> there will
<pjotr> knome: that's good news. Thanks for the info!  :)
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit: is xubuntu-bugs receiving notifications of all xfwm4 themes already?
<knome> erh
<knome> xfwm4 bugs.
<knome> shouldn't try to think/talk when hungry
<mr_pouit> knome: yes
<mr_pouit> ochosi: micahg: sorry, I haven't had time to reply to your mail(s) yet
<knome> mr_pouit, good good
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-31
<ochosi> that sounds like fun: "As many as 100 Scopes will with Ubuntu 13.04 by default" (scopes==remote searches; on by default)
<ochosi> and next:
<ochosi> "
<ochosi> "Privacy proponents will be glad to hear: Controls for turning off specific scopes on a one-by-one basis"
<ochosi> going through >100 scopes off 1by1 sounds like a great starter after installing an OS :)
<Noskcaj10> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-01
<pleia2> knome: did you get those screen shots I forwarded over?
<knome> pleia2, yup! sorry for not replying yet
<pleia2> no worries, just wanted to make sure it got there (had lots of files on it!)
<knome> mmhmm
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-02
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, good morning. Are you working on the new Catfish PPA files? I get a 404 when doing an update.
<bluesabre> hey jjfrv8, that's odd.  Are you using quantal, or something else?
<jjfrv8> Precise
<bluesabre> I haven't added the ppa for precise or raring yet, I'll go ahead and do that now
<jjfrv8> Ah.
<bluesabre> alrighty, the package will have to build, but it should work in 1-2 hours
<jjfrv8> Great. Will try later and let you know how it goes. Thanks.
<bluesabre> Thanks for testing it
<jjfrv8> Looking forward to it. :)
<ochosi_> bluesabre: new catfish is awesome
<ochosi_> great work on that
<ochosi_> the widgets need a bit of padding though
<ochosi_> ++
<bluesabre> ochosi_: open to patches
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi_> heh,k
<bluesabre> and to an extend, feature requests
<maddernick> ochosi_: do you have the improvements you made to the plymouth theme? I was gonna clean up some code i wrote to push a new version
<ochosi_> maddernick: i have a patch of basically 2 lines, i'll try to push it today
<maddernick> okay cool
<ochosi_> maddernick: just pushed the patch to trunk
<maddernick> ochosi_: link? :)
<ochosi_> maddernick: bzr branch lp:xubuntu-artwork
<maddernick> oh :p
<maddernick> ochosi_: pushed a new version now
<ochosi_> maddernick: ok, where to? )
<maddernick> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dr-madnick/+junk/spinner/revision/2?remember=2
<maddernick> ochosi_: how have you ideas for glade file swap UI developed?
<ochosi_> maddernick: looking into screen-locking right now, maybe later
<ochosi_> we'll probably not provide a UI and instead add an option in the config-file
<maddernick> okay
<ochosi_> (although probably not ;))
<maddernick> :|
<ochosi_> main problem being all alternative .ui files would have to use the same widgets anyway...
<maddernick> mm, but they can look different :P
<len-1304> bluesabre, it sounds like catfish is getting somewhere. Did you want more testers? I would like to add it to UbuntuStudio as well.
<bluesabre> len-1304, by all means, I welcome as many tester as I can get :)
<len-1304> What is the ppa I need to add?
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/catfish-experimental
<len-1304> Thank you
<bluesabre> there should be packages for precise, quantal, and raring in there
<len-1304> I will be testing R
<bluesabre> sweet
<len-1304> bluesabre, as soon as I go to the update search index and select unlock, I get: /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/catfish/CatfishWindow.py:211: PyGIDeprecationWarning: timeout_add is deprecated; use GLib.timeout_add instead
<len-1304>   GObject.timeout_add(1000, updatedb_subprocess)
<bluesabre> ok, thanks, I'll have to do some updates to support the new (and older) GObject APIs
<bluesabre> Ideally, everything should work fine in quantal, I'll have to work on precise and raring though
<len-1304> Also as soon as I type any character in the search box, the terminal I ran it from fills up with lines and lines of: StopIteration
<len-1304> I can't get farther than that.
<bluesabre> Yeah, I just noticed that too.  It seems to be useless in raring atm
<len-1304> It opens :) Better than what it was.
<len-1304> bluesabre, I take it now that I have your ppa installed any new version will show up when I get updates, so I can test them as they show up.
<bluesabre> Yup, sure thing
<len-1304> Good
<bluesabre> hopefully I'll get some fixes out for that today
#xubuntu-devel 2013-02-03
<amerigena> Has anyone used bluesabre's experimental Catfish yet?
<len-1304> Ya, works really nice, very fast.
<len-1304> Using 13.04 version.
<GridCube> i tried it but i dont understand if its working or not
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> i mean if you search for something that you know will return a result, the app should find it :)
<ochosi> (then you know it's working)
<GridCube> i tried to search *.mp3 and it did search circle for a while, then stopped
<amerigena> I'm just learning this - does the experimental Catfish work in parallel, or does the default version need to be uninstalled first?
<GridCube> it replaces the original
<amerigena> Thanks.
<amerigena> That's what I thought;wanted to be sure.
<GridCube> no, see i tried it again, nothing at all
<GridCube> great and now i had to xkill it 
<GridCube> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-27
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: about to do a release with the fix in it
<bluesabre> my internet has been out all day, seems to be back somewhat now
<Noskcaj> :)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: https://launchpad.net/menulibre/2.0/2.0.1
<bluesabre> :)
<Noskcaj> thanks
<Noskcaj> You are proving that #shimmer is really #xubuntu-devel2 though
<bluesabre> in a way
<bluesabre> its usually where parole and greeter talk happen so simon and I don't flood this channel
<bluesabre> my excuse there is that we're discussing design, so its #shimmer-related :)
<bluesabre> right ochosi?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> thing is that parole isn't really xubuntu-related directly
<ochosi> same thing goes for the greeter
<ochosi> and since it's mostly ppl hanging out in shimmer who happen to work on these projects, we mostly talk about them there
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: besides the menulibre2.0.1 update, do we think we can get mugshot into debian as well?
<bluesabre> I'll be working on catfish this week
<Noskcaj> mugshot should get to debian, i just need to find a sponsor
<bluesabre> excellent :)
<Noskcaj> Also a new version of pexcept
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> also, catfish doesn't depend on any specific version of locate
<bluesabre> as long as it provides a locate executable, its sufficient
<bluesabre> and I think that include mlocate
<bluesabre> but I'll document that with the next release
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, is https://piuparts.debian.org/sid/fail/menulibre_2.0-1.log fixed in 2.0.1?
<ochosi> hm, apart from all the packaging and uploading stuff, currently this looks like one of the more challenging workitems:
<ochosi> [xubuntu-dev] Look into creating a GUI for light-locker settings (or integrate into xfce4-powermanager): TODO
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: haven't seen that before, so I'm going with no
<bluesabre> what is it?
<Noskcaj> An (un)installation error
<Noskcaj> That might be a bug in piuparts though
<bluesabre> yeah, looks unrelated to menulibre
<Noskcaj> New indicator plugin version in my PPA
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<bluesabre> thanks Noskcaj
<bluesabre> started work on catfish, already removed the embedded pexpect
<bluesabre> its totally reasonable to assume that I'll have a new release ready the end of the week
<bluesabre> then maybe knome will let me take a break ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: (trusty only) new parole daily builds in https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+recipe/parole-gtk3-daily
<bluesabre> if not using trusty, you'll get a daily libxfce4ui, which you almost certainly do not want
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, good work. I think the devel part of 14.04 is now just bugfixing and packaging
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> somehow it seems we're much more on schedule this cycle
<bluesabre> it helps that parole-0.6 missed 13.10, most of the dev on it has been done for a while
<benonsoftware> Hiya, I'm wondering how much RAM would be enough for testing 14.04 inside a VM?
<pleia2> at least 512M, I tend to test with 1-1.5G
<benonsoftware> Thanks :)
 * benonsoftware will settle with 512, he only has 1.75GB overall RAM :(
<pleia2> if you have a really poor experience with 512 that'd be worth knowing too, as we're always looking to evaluate our min specs
<benonsoftware> Just running it now as a live system, it's actually running very nicely for me :)
<pleia2> cool
<benonsoftware> I've been noticing the work the the Xubuntu team has been doing, a great job. :D
<ochosi> nice, i can confirm that the indicator-plugin package from Noskcaj does solve some issues (labels being cut etc), so now it seems there are mostly some indicator-internal issues left
<elfy> ochosi: do we want to check anymore than light-locker locks and unlocks the screen?
<knome> benonsoftware, thanks! (re: g+ invite, i'm not using g+, so thanks, but can't accept ;))
<T-kilt> short Hello to all
<elfy> that'd be Hi then :p
<elfy> knome: power testcase is done if you get time to look - if not I'll point slicky at it 
<T-kilt> thx elfy
<T-kilt> Short Question: Experience with Xubuntu 14 alpha 2 and VMware 10 ? Would like to test it fist in VM 
<elfy> no idea about vmware - but I often test in vbox 
<T-kilt> @elfy: would like to use vbox too but company policies are somethimes a pain in the... ;-)
<meetingology> T-kilt: Error: "elfy:" is not a valid command.
<T-kilt> at elfy: would like to use vbox too but company policies are somethimes a pain in the... ;-)
<elfy> just use elfy :p
<elfy> but yep - understoof
<T-kilt> elfy: Would like to parcitipate a little in testing. Who would get the bug reports? Special Account for alpha ?
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> let me find the info for you
<elfy> you'll need a LP account
<knome> T-kilt, testing is reported in trackers, no personal info is gathered (if you are worried about that)
<elfy> T-kilt: can't find what I was looking for - but ^^ have a LP account - use the 2 trackers, report on the trackers, bugs get reported there and they show up 
<elfy> http://xubuntu.org/news/help-us-test-xubuntu-14-04-lts/
<elfy> subscribe to the devel mailing list and you'll see what we're testing and when as I call for it
<T-kilt> knome: thx for the answer. Second  Rule: no personal info on test systems ;-)
<T-kilt> elfy: o.k. . Will join later this day
<slickymaster> morning all
<T-kilt> slickmaster: morning ! (depending on timezone)
<slickymaster> morning here T-kilt ;)
<slickymaster> bluesabre: you around?
<slickymaster> bluesabre: I'm sure you saw this http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/01/24/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t16:03
<slickymaster> bluesabre: anyway, I'm kind of hoping you manage to find 5 minutes to help me to sort it out
<slickymaster> bluesabre: sorry, I meant that I wasn't sure  you saw it ^^
<elfy> morning slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi, elfy. And a good one for you, too
<elfy> ty 
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/+bug/1264448
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1264448 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Date time undersized" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> appears to be fixed now here
<bluesabre> slickymaster: does that happen in trusty?
<slickymaster> bluesabre: nopes, in Saucy
<bluesabre> yeah, it seems like something is unstable in saucy
<bluesabre> glade insta-crashes, menulibre crashes, and mugshot crashes
<bluesabre> everything seems stable in trusty from what I can tell
<elfy> it has been for me 
<elfy> apart from the help thing still
<elfy> bluesabre: ^^
<slickymaster> I'll install it in trusty in a minute, and will report you promptly 
<bluesabre> great
<bluesabre> elfy: I just released mugshot-0.2 which gets rid of the old help
<elfy> aah okey doke :)
<bluesabre> now the button takes you to the online docs
<elfy> ok - thanks :)
<elfy> bluesabre: re menulibre - anything in particular that you want to test - really don't want to end up with a 30 minute test here :p
<bluesabre> nothing in particular, the only caveat is that adding launchers to the top-most level of the menu doesn't work in xfce from what I can tell
<elfy> and are we going to be dealing with the edit menu option not being there if you right click properties menu ?
<elfy> ok - will bear that in mind
<bluesabre> the edit menu will be changed to point to menulibre once its added to the seed
<elfy> cool - that was all I needed to know then :p
<bluesabre> if you notice any peculiarities, go ahead and file a bug, that way I'm sure to get to it
<elfy> yep
<elfy> not looked at it properly yet - just installed it 
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> gotta run, be back tonight.  good luck!
<elfy> have a day :)
<elfy> slickymaster: if you get chance there's a draft power testcase ready for looking at
<slickymaster> bluesabre: it doesn't happen in trusty.
<slickymaster> bluesabre: what we discussed about the web camera in mugshot
<slickymaster> elfy: do you want me to review it or to enhance it?
<elfy> slickymaster: that's good then - I didn't have any issues either - other than installing that one package
<elfy> slickymaster: up to you - I'm trying to make tests as simple as possible
<elfy> have you seen the gthumb one :|
<slickymaster> elfy: can you provide me a link to it?
<elfy> https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1270911/+merge/203282
<elfy> sorry - a bit all over the place tis morning :)
<slickymaster> elfy: it was me who wrote the gthumb test
<slickymaster> do you think it needs some kind of tweaking?
<elfy> it is long is all
<elfy> there's not really much we can do with it though
<slickymaster> elfy: thing is that gthumb has a lot of options/menus to work with
<elfy> I know :)
<elfy> there's not really much we can do with it though
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> elfy: I'll review your MP 1270911 this afternoon and will try to re-read the gthumb one too see if somehow it can be trimmed
<slickymaster> to, not too ^
<elfy> slickymaster: ok for the MP - really don't bother with gthumb - maybe we can look for Unreal Unicorn when it turns up 
<slickymaster> your code names are starting to growing on me, elfy 
<slickymaster> :)
<elfy> ha ha ha
<T-kilt> Download Link for XUbuntu Alpha 2 Brocken ?
<T-kilt> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20140121.1/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso
<elfy> where did you get that from? 
<T-kilt> From Ubuntu HP 
<T-kilt> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/310/builds/61654/downloads
<elfy> oh right 
<elfy> yea - that's gone now :)
<T-kilt> Which should i choose ?
<elfy> use the dailies
<T-kilt> o.k. thx
<elfy> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20140127/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso
<T-kilt> Working
<elfy> T-kilt: if you actually want the A2 then you can get it http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/trusty/alpha-2/
<elfy> but the daily is just that plus new updates 
<T-kilt> I will take the daily. Plans about integration of libimobiledevice version 1.6 ?
<elfy> no idea I'm afraid
<T-kilt> no Problem, will try it myself :-)
<slickymaster> lunch time
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<elfy> knome: I guess we'll need to think about upgrade testing 
<T-kilt>  
<brainwash> ochosi: /join #shimmer
<brainwash> woops
<brainwash> I was about to ask a greeter related question here, but then I thought why no use #shimmer instead :)
<brainwash> elfy: is bug 1261660 not fixed yet?
<ubottu> bug 1261660 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "User session fails to accept settings 32bit" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261660
<elfy> yea
<elfy> some guy wandering round fiddling with bugs
<brainwash> yes, my mail box got spammed with those bug report status changes
<elfy> mine too - can't keep up 
<elfy> I'll mark it as a dupe
<brainwash> ok :)
<brainwash> btw do you prefer 32px or 48px sized desktop icons? https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/desktop-icon-size/+merge/202944
<elfy> asking the wrong person I'm afraid
<elfy> I prefer an empty desktop :p
<brainwash> 32 is the default, but xfdesktop somehow sets the size to 36
<elfy> sorry - I'm completely meh about that :)
<brainwash> and 36 is "invalid", because some icons simply do no scale
<brainwash> ok, I just want to get it fixed and not wait until it's april =S
<elfy> :)
<elfy> same guy has decided that gtk3 inds is low priority :p
<brainwash> it is low apparently
<brainwash> otherwise we would already have them :D
<brainwash> but the new indicator plugin is in great shape, many things have been fixed
<ali1234> he set bug 1074314 as high
<ubottu> bug 1074314 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "indicator-datetime configuration panel only works in Unity session" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074314
<elfy> I've turned of the date thing now that looks normal
<brainwash> ali1234: is "INDICATOR_ALLOW_NO_WATCHERS=yes" still required?
<ali1234> yes
<brainwash> that's bad news
<ali1234> bug tedg about it
<brainwash> it's bug 1185565, right?
<ubottu> bug 1185565 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185565
<ali1234> that's the catch-all bug for the rewrite yes
<brainwash> does not look like we can expect any support
<brainwash> and setting the env var for the xubuntu session is only a workaround
<ali1234> what do you mean no support?
<ali1234> it will be fixed
<brainwash> in this case everything will be ok
<slickymaster> elfy: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1270911/+merge/203282
<elfy> slickymaster: thanks - merged and synced to tracker - put it in xfce core
<slickymaster> thanks for that elfy ;)
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<elfy> ochosi: http://pastebin.com/rKmcbR2a 
<elfy> if I hear nothing to the contrary I'll try and get that merged and synced tomorrow
<elfy> hi Noskcaj - what's the story with time and user admins now?
<Noskcaj> nothings changed that i know of
<elfy> great
<elfy> Noskcaj: so when will you know 
<Noskcaj> know what? 
<Noskcaj> Also, my internet is completely dead right now
<elfy> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-23-19.00.log.html#l-88
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6828091/
<elfy> Noskcaj: so what exactly are the packages that are missing for us - I'll report it
<Noskcaj> elfy, gnome-*-admin
<Noskcaj> time and user
<elfy> gnome-user-admin no such package
<Noskcaj> all the binaries should have been the same though
<elfy> what I don't understand is how this even happened without knowing
<elfy> should have and are don't always match :p
<Noskcaj> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+changelog is the changelog
<Noskcaj> time- and network-
<elfy> means little to me I'm afraid
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/1273305
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1273305 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Users and Groups missing recently?" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Unit193> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/162987751/gnome-system-tools_3.0.0-2ubuntu2_3.0.0-3ubuntu1.diff.gz has it, all the files were dropped from the .install files, thus nothing is installed except for the xpm files, so it'd be an expected change.
<elfy> so simple enough to deal with?
<Noskcaj> should be. But we noe sync that bit from debian, so you'll need to go and complain in #ubuntu-devel
<elfy> excellent
<elfy> from the logs Noskcaj - you appear to be saying you did it
<elfy> so why should I go anywhere else 
<Unit193> He did the last one, yeah..
 * elfy doesn't understand this stuff :)
<elfy> Noskcaj: I'm not blaming you - just reading what you said :)
<Noskcaj> elfy, yes, at the instruction of pitti, but my understanding of the package is little and i'm not sure ubuntu will be keep to revert this change
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> ok
<Noskcaj> *keen
<brainwash> elfy: we could use the MATE fork of users-admin
<brainwash> I assume that it is better maintained 
<Noskcaj> Does ubuntu fully have MATE yet?
<brainwash> does not look like it is the case
<brainwash> but debian has all the package or?
<brainwash> packages
<brainwash> so they will be synced eventually
<brainwash> we could also fix bug 1016932
<ubottu> bug 1016932 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Setting user as administrator doesn't give him sudoing rights" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016932
<brainwash> if we decide to stay with users-admin or the MATE fork
<knome> elfy, what about upgrade testing you want to think with me?
<elfy> you want us to do it? 
<knome> sure
<knome> we've done it in the past, and the LTS->LTS upgrade tests are quite important
<knome> tbe, we probably should do round 1 for that ASAP
<knome> because that could give us unexpected problems
<elfy> yep
<knome> bbl
<elfy> I'll be gone
<elfy> knome: I'm away now - I'd think we'd want to do both 12.04 -> 14.04 and 13.10 ->14.04 
<elfy> I'll read tomorrow
<Unit193> knome: But, can you, before doing the VM update, pretend to customize it a bit? :P
<slickymaster> night all
<knome> Unit193, that would be optimal
<knome> Unit193, i don't think clean 12.04 -> 14.04 upgrade makes too much sense (it does some, but it's not too good for testing real-world situations/problems)
<Unit193> I'll likely be moving a couple over before release, but not long before.  That'll add some craziness testing there.
<bluesabre> drat, Noskcaj is not around
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-28
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, got any idea how his application went?
<ochosi> i'm kinda busy tomorrow, if someone could tell elfy that his test-case for light-locker is good plz
<knome> was there a branch for it?
<ochosi> here: http://pastebin.com/rKmcbR2a
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> that's what he pinged me about today
<knome> that's not a branch :P
<ochosi> oh rly?? :D
<ochosi> brainwash: have you seen the nice annoying gtk3.10 cut buttons bug yet?
<knome> ochosi, send an email to him and tell him to propose a merge :P
<brainwash> ochosi: no, greybird?
<knome> or, actually, blah
<knome> i could do that myself right now
<knome> (push to production)
<ochosi> thanks knome 
<ochosi> brainwash: try to launch synaptic with any theme that doesn't use pixmap-buttons
<ochosi> (e.g. greybird, numix, ...)
<ochosi> bluebird and ambiance work
<ochosi> (hint: bottom border is cut off)
<ochosi> probably a bug in the default engine
<ochosi> anyway, g2g
<ochosi> night everyone
<brainwash> ochosi: good night
<brainwash> ochosi: buttons in synaptic look fine, greybird-git
<bluesabre> ochosi, brainwash: I think the bug is mainly GtkDialog, GtkMessageDialog
<Unit193> knome: Sooo, this is a terrible mockup: https://paste.unit193.net/?f88fb53e8fe93467#L1Shvn0vUTtFh07xE59OtDuWQHUO8aYFcjJfUpdkRzQ=
<Unit193> Honestly?  I have no clue what'll happen with tasksel, I have no way of testing it.
<knome> hmm.
<knome> just email the list with whatever you have, so we can get the discussion going
<knome> i don't know enough to judge the technical issues this or that way
<Unit193> Yes, but you can ask questions that any normal person would, so I can put it in the text to begin with. :P
<knome> hah
<Unit193> I'm too close to the issue to know what everyone would ask.  Also, can you somehow make it magically better worded?
<Unit193> (Which is why I shouldn't help with marketing. :P )
<knome> hah, i can help with that.
<knome> dump it on a pad
<Unit193> That paste has comments enabled, but sure.
<knome> comments are meh compared to editing the actual content :)
<Unit193> http://openetherpad.org/p/xubuntucore
<Unit193> Woah, waaaaait.  I see where this is going, all the blame on "Unit193"
<Unit193> :P
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> this happens every time
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Unit193 is our secret weapon with getting minimal stuff and xmir
<knome> wait, that doesn't make sense
<Unit193> knome: It happens because of how things work, apt-get install gets the package and everything depended on.  Tasksel will select the task (xubuntu-desktop^) with installs all the packages in the task taking into account the blacklist as well.
<bluesabre> its a bit contradictory :)
<knome> Unit193, so why do we mull on it? :P
<Unit193> Because it's different, we can tell people to only use tasksel or apt-get install xubuntu-core^, but that's not going to cover all the bases, or the main one.
<knome> i'm not understanding the problem
<Unit193> bluesabre: Simply because I never know what's going on. ;)   Also, new xmir images are actually usable until they crashed.
<Unit193> knome: OK...
<knome> it's also almost 4am :P
<knome> why do we need to consider that issue any further?
<knome> isn't it just ok to mark those packages as depends?
<knome> if not, what's the workaround?
<Unit193> Sure, but "Xubuntu" will work fine without some of them. :P
<Unit193> (Meaning, you can get more minimal.)
<knome> of course.
<knome> but we aren't trying to be minimal-minimal
<knome> just xubuntu-minimal
<knome> which doesn't mean we'll rip your pants off if you give us a chance.
<knome> so the "problem" is that by depending on those packages, we're introducing more stuff than we need?
<Unit193> Basically.
<knome> but aren't we doing that by installing thunar...
<Unit193> "Problem" is that tasksel'd xubuntu-core will be a bit different than apt-get install'd xubuntu-core.  Yes.
<knome> ok, but that's true for -desktop as well
<knome> what can we do about it?
<Unit193> xfce4-terminal isn't really needed either.  Well, we can try to strip out all () packages, but not sure if that'd do it.
<Unit193> xubuntu-desktop doesn't matter as much because that's expected.
<knome> aha?
<Unit193> You install the livecd or by the menu option in the mini.iso, thus nothing is needed to fix it.
<knome> okay...
<Unit193> So, all good?
<knome> well i think i understand a bit more now :P
<knome> but i don't still understand the section on the mail
<knome> what you want to say is, the two things do not give the same results, right?
<knome> but you don't know how they could be made to give the same results?
<knome> and that it is a probably bad thing, because users are able to install the -core package with both ways, and both of them are just as correct?
<Unit193> 1. These are marked as a dep so we get what we want even by doing --no-install-recommends.  2. We should be installing by --no-install-recommends.  3.  Tasksel and --no-install-recommends may be a tad different, but nothing major.
<Unit193> Comment in the seed file explains: If you are using tasksel, you should get packages in parenthesis.  If following instructions with apt-get, you will not.
<knome> okay
 * Unit193 isn't good at being clear, but knows what he means. :P
<knome> is that good now? :)
<knome> dunno, i need to go to bed
<knome> talk to you later, and you can always also bother pleia2 
<knome> nighty!
<Unit193> Cool, thanks.
 * Unit193 looks.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ooooh, did you review the seed? :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: I haven't
<bluesabre> but I assume its probably good
 * bluesabre hopes that doesn't come back to bite him later
 * Unit193 stamped it approved by bluesabre.
<bluesabre> crap
<Unit193> It's created by me, it's likely insane. :D
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Ugh, indicator-sound having dumb depends, means you have to hold the package and upgrade manually or disable recommends system wide. :/
<elfy> knome: unless I hear different - going to put lightlocker in xfce core -even if it isn't - so it gets dragged into a not yet made testing call - the power one is in there as well for the moment
<elfy> it can be tidied up later before unreal unicorn testing starts
<Unit193> Hrm, might be nicer to remove xscreensaver for testing of lightlocker.
<elfy> have you read the testcase?
<elfy> oh 
<elfy> yes
<Unit193> Not yet, haven't seen it.
<elfy> had a note in the one I've got here to do just that :p
<elfy> but it wasn't in the paste ochosi had - that knome saw and used :p
<elfy> added that to the tracker - but not trunk 
<elfy> ty Unit193 - made me look :)
<Unit193> Sure.
<elfy> once it's properly in then I'll remove it
<Unit193> elfy: You see the core proposal pad?  (Pretty sure it's not your thing, but meh.)
<elfy> Unit193: not seen it no - might not be mine - but I know a couple of people that might be interested enough to test it
<elfy> and I'd look at least :)
<elfy> bluesabre: looking at menulibre now - highlighting accessories then adding launcher - I'd be expecting it to put the new launcher in accessories - but it appears to want to have it seperate from existing menu categories
<elfy> is that right>? and does what I've said make sense? 
<elfy> is the manual half done perhaps so I can look at the draft
<ochosi> elfy: light-locker test case looks good btw
<elfy> thanks - saw all that in the backlog eventually
<elfy> couldn't work out how it had got there when it was still sitting here lol
<elfy> ochosi: I'll try and get it into the tracker today - there'll be a call soon for the set it's going to live with for the moment - or do you want me to all for it specifically
<elfy> done
<slickymaster> morning all
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi elfy 
<elfy> slickymaster: started looking at menulibre this morning for testcase - but I can't work it lol, is there a draft/working copy of the docs for it?
<slickymaster> elfy: not yet. I was planning on starting the menulibre docs as soon as I finish the mugshot's, which I think it will by the end of this week
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I'll wait for the answer from sean then 
<slickymaster> elfy: need a favour from you
<elfy> if I can do it then I of course will :)
<slickymaster> I've this poor english sentence: "If you want to use a close-up photography of you!"
<slickymaster> can you reword it for mr, please
<slickymaster> me ^^
<elfy> context?
<elfy> slickymaster: ^^
<ali12341> "If you want, use a close-up photograph of yourself!"
<slickymaster> I'll give you the link
 * slickymaster curses his internet connection
<ali12341> but this may not mean what you intended, so, context...
<slickymaster> elfy, here you go: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs:usage#webcam_images_captures
<elfy> aah ok - yea like ali12341 says ^^
<elfy> no
<slickymaster> ali12341: I think you've nail it 
<ali12341> maybe
<slickymaster> yeah, Thank you guys
<ali12341> you're documenting mugshot - there's no reason why the user has to take a picture of themselves
<elfy> If you want to use a close-up photograph of yourself, then after clicking the image button, choose ... 
<ali12341> what i wrote does not fit the context at all
<slickymaster> ali12341: well, the all idea behind mugshot is to ease the choosing of a profile image, and that's just one of the possibilities 
<elfy> If you want to use a close-up photograph of yourself, then after clicking the image button, choose ... 
<elfy> that should work in the context
<ali12341> yes
<slickymaster> yes, elfy. I think you're right
<slickymaster> thanks
<elfy> welcome - though you'll just get me and ali12341 arguing about English :p
<ali12341> i should rope my brother in to writing documentation. he's a technical writer.
<ali12341> he doesn't use linux at all though
<slickymaster> :) that's good, it's a way to improve my english
<elfy> ali12341: I keep meaning to get a mate to do the Gallego translation for us - he uses Xubuntu amongst other things
<knome> elfy, is the test in tracker correct now?
<knome> FYI, raring aka 13.04 is EOL now
<bluesabre> elfy, yeah, that makes sense.  I wasn't sure what the preferred method for that would be.  You can use the up and down buttons to move an item into an open directory though
<knome> !team | just a reminder, keep your blueprint work item statuses up-to-date!
<ubottu> just a reminder, keep your blueprint work item statuses up-to-date!: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<Unit193> Do I have one?
<knome> yep
<knome> [Unit193] Work with GTK3 indicators packaging
<knome> you can take more, there are items that are still assigned to teams
<Unit193> Heh, not what I was thinking. :P
<knome> also, team, if you've finished a work item or marked a bug "fix released", please make sure you have assigned yourself to the item/bug if at all appropriate, so we can track better who did what
<knome> [xubuntu-doc] Write documentation for GTK3 indicators: BLOCKED
<knome> any reason why that couldn't be TODO?
<ali12341> not that i know of
<ali12341> the user interface won't change, just backend stuff
<knome> yep
<knome> marked that as TODO then, ta
<ali12341> although i guess it's depending on someone deciding which ones will actually ship
<knome> ali12341, also, feel free to pick it up if you wish ;)
 * knome shrugs
<ali12341> i use them all but i can see that they're not all "ready"
<ali12341> eg the ones with broken control panels
<knome> marking back as BLOCKED :P
<knome> Unit193, was there anything you actually needed to do with the gtk3 indicators packaging?
<knome> and, are we still testing the indicators from PPA, or is the new stuff uploaded to the main repositories?
<Unit193> Not that I know of...
<knome> removing that work item then, but for the sake of it, assigning you: [unit193] Create specification for the xubuntu-core metapackage: INPROGRESS
<bluesabre> I've added several branches to the 14.04 topic: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu
<knome> bluesabre, ta ta
<knome> [xubuntu-dev] Refresh xubuntu_set-accountsservice-user-bg.patch to work with Xfdesktop4.11: DONE
<knome> who done that?
<bluesabre> ochosi or Noskcaj, maybe?
<knome> yeah, but that doesn't help
<knome> stupid team, not taking credits for things they did
<Unit193> ochosi
<knome>  [xubuntu-team] Discuss about technical guidelines in the Strategy Document: TODO
<Unit193> FWIW I refreshed the nautilus one. :P
<knome> Unit193, ^ eh, your area
<Unit193> Eh?
<knome> Unit193, there was some discussions to review the seed composition stuff and technical limitations for new packages
<knome> i think it was brought up by skellat though
<knome> if none of you developers raise that up, it'll be postponed
<knome> developers or Unit193 
<knome> ;)
<knome> or skellat
 * bluesabre votes Unit193
<knome> yes, i think that would be a good pick
<Unit193> bluesabre: Remember that I dislike python, right? ;)
<bluesabre> sure
<knome> Unit193, well there's probably no way going back now, but... :P
<knome> we'd need the guidelines updated to what we've done
<knome> (not really the right way to do it, but...)
<bluesabre> Unit193 can help me port catfish, menulibre, and mugshot to vala or C
<bluesabre> should be done by next lts, 16.04
<knome> that's fine, i won't be leading this ship any more then ;)
<knome> leading/steering
<knome> tbh, the aforementioned changes to the strategy document barely concerns me either, so whatever, do what you want ;)
<knome> (not really, but it's more up to the team what they want than me)
<slickymaster> bluesabre, knome, http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs are done and ready for your review/approval/suggestions. Please ping me your feedback and/or changes you see as neede
<slickymaster> needed ^^Âª 
<micahg> hrm, will try to review some of the outstanding branches later
<slickymaster> another thing, bluesabre, assuming that the mugshot documentation is alright, there's one thing you might want to update, which is the applications man pages.
<slickymaster> bluesabre: maybe adding a SEE ALSO section informing that the full documentation for Mugshot is available online at http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs
<slickymaster> application's ^^^
<pleia2> removing link to raring docs from our doc site since it's EOL today (I'll still keep the directory up though)
<knome> pleia2, already removed the mention on /help
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> also filed bug 1273798 that I'll get to this week
<ubottu> bug 1273798 in Xubuntu Website "Copy brand assets to static.xubuntu.org" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273798
<pleia2> if there's other stuff we should add to static, feel free to lmk, but we don't have a ton of space (only a few gigs on that server, we told them it wouldn't be much :))
<knome> "only a few gigs"
<knome> so we can store a gig of at pics?
<pleia2> *cat
<knome> yes that!
<genii> I sort of find it amusing, since the XFCE thing is the mouse
<knome> well of course those would be pics where cats are humiliated, with funny hats and stuff
<genii> I guess that could work :)
<pleia2> haha
<elfy> knome: yep it is
<brainwash> sergio-br2: we might need an upstream bug report for bug 1271891
<ubottu> bug 1271891 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop icons does not fit well in xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271891
<sergio-br2> ok
<brainwash> basically it always helps to also write a report upstream and link it to the launchpad one
<brainwash> thanks
<sergio-br2> brainwash, there is a way to link "officially" to bug reports in launchpad, but i don't how to do that.
<slickymaster> night all
<brainwash> sergio-br2: simply click on the "+ Also affects project" link below the list of affected packages
<bluesabre> slickymaster: thanks for the suggestion
<bluesabre> knome: looks like the sru docs went it
<bluesabre> (in
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> bluesabre, did you get to review the mugshot docs yet?
<bluesabre> slickymaster: I just now got back
<slickymaster> ok
<bluesabre> I'll check it out shortly though, thanks for all your work
<slickymaster> np bluesabre. If you're ok with them, we have to start the next step, which is to port them to docbook format
<slickymaster> bluesabre, and also start to think in the MenuLibre documentation
<bluesabre> yep, that's going to be the fun part :)
<knome> slickymaster, for xubuntu docs, i think we're mostly interested in a short version of the "choosing a profile image" and "profile data" sections
<slickymaster> just that, nothing regarding the installation?
<knome> "... are installed and regularly used ..."
<knome> how's that probed?
<knome> why installation? we're including it in the seed
<knome> so it's ready to use in the system, just need to tell where the user can find it :)
<slickymaster> knome, "... are installed and regularly used ..."  ?!
<knome> slickymaster, http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs:usage#profile_data
<knome> slickymaster, end of first <p>
<knome> well, middle of
<slickymaster> knome, I don't have an answer for that. I'm not even really sure if bluesabre have quantified it in the code
<knome> bluesabre, ping ping ping ping
<bluesabre> bluesabre: hey, pay attention!
<bluesabre> oh!
<bluesabre> so what do we want?
<slickymaster> knome, hmmm... short version. how short is short? :P
<bluesabre> sounds like we're just interested in basic usage
<slickymaster> and I'm guessing that there will be no use of images, right?=
<knome> slickymaster, "here's how you launch mugshot. in mugshot, you can change your profile image by clicking the userimage button on the left. select one of the options and follow the instructions. (note: you need package X to use webcam.) in dialog Y, you can change your personal details; applying these details with LO/pidgin installed, you will be prompted to update their settings as well."
<knome> slickymaster, there will, on the login/lock screens :)
<slickymaster> ok, got it
<slickymaster> and as we're speaking about the xubuntu docs, we might as well address the xfdesktop
<slickymaster> does the approach is to be the same?
<knome> yes, similar to that
<knome> jjfrv8, you happen to be around?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-29
<jjfrv8> knome, I'm here
<knome> jjfrv8, o hai!
<knome> jjfrv8, we should look into getting you to ~ubuntu-core-do
<knome> +c
<jjfrv8> what's involved in that?
<knome> jjfrv8, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization#Requirements_for_Ubuntu_Documentation_Committers
<knome> jjfrv8, what you need to do now is mail ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com with your free form application to be applied to the team
<jjfrv8> ok, I can do some of that homework that I haven't completed yet.
<knome> You can apply to join either of these teams by posting to the mailing list and asking to be added. Please provide evidence that you satisfy the requirements in this section. It's particularly helpful if you can include links to concrete examples of your work, such as wiki pages or patches. 
<jjfrv8> hehe, haven't done any of that
<knome> i can help you getting the mail in shape (as can pleia2), and once you've applied, i can also +1 your application
<jjfrv8> ok
<knome> well, i can guarantee you have basically all the information you get from #1 (at least in the xubuntu scope)
<pleia2> oh look, it is documented :) I thought I might have imagined it
<knome> you have done #2 (i can confirm that as well)
<knome> i guess the only thing you need to look is #3, the bug control pages
<knome> and get the mail sent :)
<jjfrv8> all right, will do
<jjfrv8> I'll let you know when I'm ready to work on the mail?
<knome> jjfrv8, basically it's enough that you can check the three first points in the "generic requirements" section, the rest is optional/related to direct memberships
<ochosi> Unit193: could you do a rather simplistic package for xubuntu?
<knome> sure, though i'm off to bed soon for today
<ochosi> Unit193: hint: http://xubuntu.org/news/community-wallpaper-contest-winners/
<jjfrv8> knome, another question before you go: how come you deleted the SRU item from the BP instead of marking it done?
<knome> jjfrv8, there is a bug linked to the blueprints
<knome> -s
<knome> jjfrv8, that counts as one work item; we don't want multiple work items per one task
<jjfrv8> oh
<knome> and yeah, the SRU with fixed looks should be in now
<ochosi> night everyone
<knome> nighty ochosi
<jjfrv8> it's not all the way in, is it?  I just checked and it doesn't show up as an  update yet.
<knome> jjfrv8, do you have -proposed enabled?
<jjfrv8> affirmative
<knome> right
<knome> then it's probably taking some time; seb128 has sponsored it though, so it should be in sooner or later
<jjfrv8> I'll keep checking
<jjfrv8> I keep looking for noskcaj's weather plugin too but haven't seen that yet
<knome> was there any other reply from ted apart that he is interested? did you follow up on that further?
<jjfrv8> is that about the weather thing? I didn't think there was anything to do but wait for it to go through
<knome> no, that was about docs stuff
<knome> got mail from ted on 15th saying "Yes, yes, very interested!", but no further communication regarding that
<jjfrv8> Oh, that.  Yes we've traded e-mails.  He's working through the bzr stuff.  He got stuck at the same spot I did
<knome> ok, good :)
<jjfrv8> I sent him unit193's workaround but haven't heard back to see if it worked yet
<jjfrv8> never heard back from the other guy
<knome> right, that happens
<Unit193> Hmm?
<knome> if you are seriously stuck with bzr, you can CC me as well, or ask him to join us on IRC
<jjfrv8> I did (the latter)
<knome> we have other tasks (not related to bzr) open for work as well, so it's not really a hard requirement at this point
<jjfrv8> right, it's where he wanted to start, though
<knome> ok, that's fine
<Unit193> Workaround for something?
<knome> the -devel mailing list is completely fine to discuss problems with bzr and stuff, as long as it is directly related trying to get something done for xubuntu ;)
<jjfrv8> Unit193, last spring when you and knome were helping me learn the bzr ropes I had some LP issues and you fixed them
<Unit193> Oh, cool.
<knome> wondering if it's about LP/bzr "knowing you"
<knome> and setting up keys and that
<jjfrv8> pasting some text into ~\.ssh\config
<Unit193> Ahhh, that.
<knome> ok, i'm off to bed
<knome> email, PM me and i'll reply when i get back
<jjfrv8> cya
<slickymaster> night knome 
<knome> see you, and nighty!
<slickymaster> I'm off to
<slickymaster> cy tomorrow guys
<Noskcaj> to anyone interested on my current status; Internet is completely dead; ubuntu-gnome took all of the time at the MOTU meeting and applying by email still isn't working; pyexcept is updated in debian, mugshot and menulibre are being reviewed now; gthumb 3.3 is now in ubuntu
<Noskcaj> g'night knome, slickymaster 
<Noskcaj> micahg: Any progress on the weather-plugin SRU?
<micahg> hrm, was I supposed to upload something?
<micahg> it's in unapproved
<Noskcaj> ok
<Unit193> knome: Got the emails of the winners?
<Unit193> ochosi: ^?
<Unit193> ochosi: 9.1M Jan 28 20:37 gavinash_solitude.jpg  not so small.
<elfy> bluesabre: not even going to try to do a testcase for menulibre until there's some sort of docs for it
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah i know, we'll have to get in touch with all the authors (probably won't get to it until next week, so if you wanna take over, that'd be great), we can get in touch with them via the wiki accounts i think
<ochosi> Unit193: of one or two i might have email addresses as well
<ochosi> Unit193: anyway, if you're generally willing to take this task, i'd assign the packaging to you in the artwork-blueprint
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> morning elfy 
<elfy> ochosi: any change with the gtk3 inds - are we still looking to get them in this cycle?
<ochosi> yup, we are
<elfy> ok :)
<ochosi> we're kinda waiting for a panel-release
<ochosi> but i think we should get a git-snapshot in asap
<ochosi> so that we get more testing
<elfy> right 
<ochosi> Noskcaj said he was going to look into that, but obviously he has troubles with his connection
<ochosi> sorry, gotta run, bbl
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: congrats with the wallpapers content/contest :)
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: thanks :)
<slickymaster> morning all
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hey elfy
<Unit193> ochosi: No, I'm looking for copyright reasons, I have it all done otherwise.
<ochosi> Unit193: oh, nice. i sent out some contact requests, i also want to know who wants to be attributed how
<slickymaster> elfy: I see you're waiting for MenuLibre docs to start working on its testcase
<slickymaster> thing is, that from what I've seen, those docs are bound to became a huge task
<elfy> slickymaster: well ... 
<elfy> that's as maybe - but as it stands I can't even make the thing work :p
<slickymaster> I was planning on porting the mugshot docs to docbook format, so they can be integrated in the xubuntu docs and then, after that, start to work on the MenuLibre ones
<elfy> yea - I read that 
<elfy> that said we don't test alacarte 
<elfy> so I guess the testing is more about making sure it works - which it doesn't for me :p
<slickymaster> tbh, even though I already installed it, I haven't tried it yet
<Unit193> ochosi: Want to take a look?
<ochosi> Unit193: sure thing
<elfy> slickymaster: I've tried it - can't make it work - got other stuff to do :)
<slickymaster> yeah, there's no way we can nag about being left with nothing to do
<elfy> lol
<slickymaster> knome: ping
<Unit193> ochosi: You know packaging well enough to play with the source package, or just bin?
<ochosi> Unit193: i think the source package could be fine
<ochosi> if i have troubles, i'll ask
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/xubuntu-community-artwork_14.04.0.dsc - https://unit193.net/xubuntu-community-wallpapers_14.04.0_all.deb
<ochosi> Unit193: looks good to me!
<ochosi> so basically you need to fill in the email addresses into the <> and it's ready
<Unit193> d/copyright of course isn't done, but otherwise.
<Unit193> Yep.
<ochosi> i'll PM you the email addresses i have
<Unit193> Doh, right, I know yours.  But that's different than the one.
<knome> slickymaster, pong
<slickymaster> knome: regarding mugshot in docbook format. Do you think that it's best to make a brand new xml file to add the /desktop-guide/C/ folder or is it to be added to a existing xml file in that folder?
<knome> let me see
<knome> i think it could be a new section that falls between 3 and 4
<knome> we could move "customizing the appearance" and the menulibre stuff there as well
<knome> what do you think?
<slickymaster> give me a sec
<slickymaster> well, they would both definitely fall under the Customizing the appearance section of Chapter 3
<knome> not really
<knome> appearance is not personal details or the menu structure
<slickymaster> you don't think so?
<knome> appearance is.. appearance
<knome> how things look
<knome> and that section is already somewhat big
<knome> but all three do have one thing in common: customizing
<slickymaster> MenuLibre is bound to somehow change the appearance of the desktop
<slickymaster> but the same doesn't happens with mugshot though
<knome> i understand what you are saying, but i'm not thinking "appearance" is as big entity as you do
<slickymaster> I see
<knome> new section could be named "Tailoring the desktop for your personal preferences"
<knome> or sth
<knome> probably not that exactly
<knome> because if we think about it
<knome> currently, section 3 is named "Getting to know..."
<knome> and customizing something isn't really "getting to know", it's the next step already
<slickymaster> so, following your reasoning that would result in another new chapter between the existing 3 and 4?
<knome> yep.
<knome> that chapter could ultimately also have a link to chapter 8 "managing installed applications"
<knome> but that's minor details
<knome> would you like me to set up the new chapter?
<slickymaster> yeah, but I see the logic of it
<slickymaster> knome: you could draw me a rough draft of it, so I can get an idea of how it's done
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll prepare it, just a sec
<slickymaster> it will be my first endeavor on making on in docbook from scratch
<knome> meanwhile, give me a good name for the chapter
<knome> heh, yeah, what a way to start ;)
<slickymaster> I must say that I do like your suggestion: "Tailoring the desktop for your personal preferences"
<knome> it's probably a tad long
<slickymaster> hmm
<slickymaster> let me think
<knome> fwiw, i'm naming the "stub" customizing-desktop
<slickymaster> are there any restrictions on the string length, or is it just intended to be straight forward?
<knome> latter
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> "Customizing your system" sounds too technical/heavy/deep
<bluesabre> elfy, that's reasonable
<slickymaster> what about "Your desktop, your preferences"?
<knome> slickymaster, that sounds like a marketing speech :D
<slickymaster> :D yes, I know
<knome> and if we are really strict, it's not really just desktop
<bluesabre> Have it your way
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> oh wait, thats already taken
<knome> bluesabre, ideas?
<knome> lol
<knome> what about something like "Set up your preferences"
<knome> that one is clumsy, but something in that direction maybe
<knome> hmm,
<slickymaster> btw bluesabre, are you ok with the mugshot docs?
<Unit193> Settings and Preferences :P
<knome> maybe we should use "customize" in the chapter title
<knome> Unit193, oh.. oh!
<knome> i guess that's it :P
<bluesabre> one sec
<slickymaster> so we're sticking with Unit193's suggestion?
<knome> that's pretty solid to me
<knome> we can talk about tailoring and stuff in the chapter introduciton paragraph
<slickymaster> agree, I think he nailed it
<bluesabre> slickymaster: the docs are excellent
<slickymaster> bluesabre: good to hear
<slickymaster> I can now stop worrying about that and focus on their docbook implementation
<bluesabre> good deal
<knome> bah, will take some time
<knome> i need to fix some issues with something that i might want to change
<slickymaster> I'll wait knome 
<knome> i need to get it done before 12UTC anyway :P
<slickymaster> hmm that leaves you with jus 40 minutes
<slickymaster> just ^^
<knome> yep
<knome> that's fien
<knome> fine*
<knome> question:
<knome> currently, the toc's only show items from chapter and section
<knome> basically saying, two levels
<knome> do you think we should allow one more level of section titles in the chapter pages?
<knome> eg. in "What is Xubuntu?", should the TOC list headers like "Xubuntu is...", "About the name", etc?
<knome> slickymaster, ^
<knome> i am not sure if this is useful or not
<knome> could become handy in the network chapter
<knome> and in the new customize chapter
<knome> oh well, i'll leave it as it is for now
<knome> at least i've prepared the change and know what changing it involves :)
<knome> slickymaster, new revision pushed to branch :)
<elfy> knome: do you want to say more? http://pastebin.com/abhmuY1f
<slickymaster> knome: I saw it
<knome> elfy, http://pastebin.com/YcjY1NaE
<elfy> that'll do then
<elfy> sending
<knome> ta
<slickymaster> yes knome, I do concur with you regarding the toc, but if implemented would that be obligatorily implemented in all the chapters?
<slickymaster> making the toc a huge tree
<slickymaster> or can it just be implemented on a need to basis?
<knome> slickymaster, what i'm proposing is to expand the TOC only in the chapter pages, not the index
<knome> slickymaster, but it would need to affect all chapters
<brainwash> wow, a news about the wallpaper contest http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/01/xubuntu-14-04-wallpaper-winners
<knome> :)
<brainwash> great promotion for xubuntu trusty :)
<slickymaster> knome: not quite sure if I understand you. where is the TOC implemented in the chpater pages?
<knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1310/what-is-xubuntu.html
<knome> has the TOC at the top
<slickymaster> in the headr of each page?
<knome> yep
<knome> so that would have all the bold, level 2/3 headers
<knome> eg. "Xubuntu is...", "About the name"
<knome> probably a better example: http://docs.xubuntu.org/1310/internet-networks.html
<knome> in that page, you could jump directly to "Wireless troubleshooting" instead of going to "Network troubleshooting" and scrolling down
<slickymaster> yeah, no I get it
<knome> the index page (http://docs.xubuntu.org/1310/index.html) would be kept as it is
<knome> to avoid the huge tree, as you said
<slickymaster> yes, it just a matter of checking the implications of such a change in all the others chapters, besides chapter 6 and the new one
<knome> i don't think it's a problem for the chapter pages
<knome> but if it isn't useful, maybe we shouldn't do that
<slickymaster> well, in pragmatic terms, i.e. usability, there would be gains
<slickymaster> to the common user
<knome> definitely
<knome> except maybe in chapter 1 ;)
<slickymaster> faster browser between the items
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> where the repetition could be a bit meh
<knome> we *could* look about going around that as well
<knome> but i'll look at that if we decide to change the toc's
<slickymaster> and if not, it's a matter of weighting the pros and cons of the implementation through all the documentation 
<knome> yep
<knome> i would say most chapters would benefit from that
<slickymaster> yes, I agree with you on that
<Unit193> Don't forget to ask Jack?
<knome> and some wouldn't change at all, there not being sublevel headings
<knome> Unit193, sure.
<knome> ali12341, what's your panel layout switcher GUI status?
<knome> bluesabre, do we still have things to push to/import from debian?
<bluesabre> knome: I'm not sure if Noskcaj has gotten the latest menulibre and mugshot in there yet
<bluesabre> if you see him today, could you check?
<bluesabre> I sent him an email regarding it the other day
<knome> i can try to, but not sure how much i'll be around later today
<bluesabre> and I'm currently working on catfish-1.0, and I should get that to debian this weekend, we might be able to sync it back down before the freeze
<knome> hopefully
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> otherwise, we'll manually sync it anyway
<knome> if you have it ready in debian ahead of DIF, we can poke other people as well to make sure we get it synced
<knome> and as usually, i'll help if you need help with anything, just email/PM if i don't seem to be around
<knome> bbl ->
<Unit193> knome: Is there any way to refresh the pot so that the translated strings remain translated, just moved?
<knome> the pot doens't have translated strings :P
<knome> yeah, i imagine there is a way
<knome> what that is... i don't know
<knome> at least poedit can "update .po from template"
<knome> so i imagine there is a tool that can do that
<slickymaster> bbl after dinner ->
<knome> or actually, elfy, ping
<elfy> ok - so 
<knome> this
<elfy> what's up
<knome> let me dig up the url
<elfy> or let me guess
<knome> ok, guess :P
<elfy> LTS Upgrades Testuite
<knome> actually not
<elfy> bah
<knome> is there something that needs poking? :)
<elfy> well we'll do you first then :p
<knome> hehe, ok
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-January/009662.html
<knome> i don't really know what to do with that email
<knome> i mean it's cool that they want to help test around (or maybe not, maybe they just expect 14.04 to be polished already)
<elfy> mmm - I saw it - but at the wrong time of the day
<knome> otoh, don't know how useful it is if they are not going to send reports
<elfy> well - we have to assume that we've got more than 12 people testing I guess
<lderan> oh knome i am currently making the "does it open?" test for all the apps so will have a list at the end of it of which ones are going to be a pain and a lot of merge requests to setup :P
<knome> and we kind of don't need anybody telling us one can use xubuntu for businesses
<elfy> knome: yea 
<knome> pleia2, elfy: maybe we could tell them they could take part in our "Xubuntu at..." series if they decide to use xubuntu
<elfy> knome: maybe a - "yea, if you want to test that then go ahead, all and any testing is useful. However we're not set up for specific scenarios" 
<knome> pleia2, elfy: and if they'd also want to talk about their deciding process, and if they really want to go deep, how they wanted to give something back (eg. test stuff)
<elfy> You can do it and post to the list 
<elfy> but - yea - maybe a bit of that and a bit of "xubuntu at ..." 
<knome> i think it might be too much hassle to help them get started with the test reports
<knome> but it might be a good fit for the article series
<knome> lderan, autopilot that is?
<elfy> too much for us to help much - but they could perhaps liase with -qa in general 
<knome> mhm, well, i don't know
<knome> maybe they aren't interested to go in that deep
<knome> it just looks they want to get something that works for them
<lderan> knome, yup
<elfy> my issue is that given it's like pushing a rock up a hill backwards to get anyone to get involved with testing - I don't like saying no very much ;)
<knome> pleia2, would you like to set up a reply (i can help) talking about the article series and briefly mentioning "real" testing possibilities
<lderan> elfy, after im done with this i will be going through the upgrade test :)
<elfy> lderan: that's great :)
<knome> elfy, yep, i understand that point, and that's why i'm not too excited about this mail
<knome> i just marked it as "do something about this" on my inbox...
<elfy> yep - I can understand that
<elfy> right - I marked it in my mind and slid it under the carpet in my head 
<knome> hehe
<knome> lderan, yep, that's cool :)
<knome> elfy, so, what was your thing?
<elfy> knome: go for it from the xubuntu at perspective - mentioning perhaps the size of team and the qa issues we have 
<elfy> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-quality/2014-January/004880.html
<elfy> that - I looked, can;t see what I should be doing 
<knome> aha
<elfy> and I wish I'd not sent that mail this morning :|
<knome> i'll look
<knome> heh. why?
<elfy> now I've got to send another saying that lts to lts is somewhere else and ignore what I said earlier
<knome> that happens
<elfy> yep
<elfy> shouldn't have poked nick about a testcase bug lol
<elfy> knome: is it here ? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/products/42/testsuites
<knome> that's it
<knome> i just set it up
<elfy> mmm - can't find it :(
<knome> hum?
 * knome pokes elfy in the wooden eye
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/57248/testcases
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds/57247/testcases
<knome> so the same links
<elfy> aah yea - wasn't there when I looked :p
<knome> and you don't need to send a sorry-mail
<elfy> nope - just a they are now seperate one :)
<elfy> cool - thanks knome :)
<knome> probably not, because i had just added them when you asked about the admin side
<knome> np
<elfy> okey doke - that all from you? it is from me 
<knome> i'm fine for now at least :)
<elfy> I replied to the Richard guy on the m/l a short while ago
<elfy> okey doke 
<elfy> working tomorrow - be about for the meeting though
<knome> mhm, have fun :)
<elfy> lderan: any chance of getting some of the which work and which don't before tomorrow's meeting?
<elfy> don't sweat it if not - another week won't hurt given it's been simmering for almost 2 cycles :p
<knome> anybody has an opinion re: bug 1004400 ?
<ubottu> bug 1004400 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: default double click time is too short" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004400
<elfy> my opinion is that I've never got the double click to work on the window title bar 
<elfy> ever
<brainwash> it's fixed upstream
<elfy> I've not got an issue with it being increased 
<lderan> elfy, thats my plan
<elfy> lderan: thanks 
<lderan> then the poor dan will get flooded with MPs :(
<elfy> :)
<lderan> which will make us have more tests then Ubuntu :D
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> I need to get my head around jenkins and the reports
<lderan> i need to setup my own jenkins at somepoint
<elfy> ok - off now - cya tomorrow eventually
<slickymaster> night all
<knome> hello slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hi knome 
<lderan> Hi slickymaster
<slickymaster> hey lderan 
<slickymaster> knome, where you thinking in ant particular order for the sections in the settings-preferences.xml or can I just continue after the last existing section?
<slickymaster> s/ant/any
<knome> slickymaster, thought maybe personal info (mugshot) - appearance - menu(libre)
<slickymaster> but those after the existing section "customizing-desktop-effects", right?
<knome> slickymaster, eh, read again ;)
<slickymaster> now you lost me, knome 
<knome> slickymaster, heh, ok, so
<slickymaster> there are currently 4 sections in the xml file and I guess that those are to remain there
<knome> slickymaster, i thought mugshot stuff should come before existing stuff
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> slickymaster, and the menu docs after
<knome> isn't that a logical order?
<knome> personal preferences -> looks -> menu editing
<slickymaster> won't argue with that logic
 * knome shrugs
<knome> at worst, we can reorder later
<slickymaster> okie dokie
<slickymaster> a last thing, do you want me to finish the intro paragraph, also?
<knome> definitely ;)
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> just left it there to make the landing a bit softer for you
 * slickymaster will try to do what the cats do, and land on his feet
<knome> ;)
<knome> it's funny, the higher you fall, the easier that is
<knome> but the more it will hurt...
<slickymaster> well, no pain... no gain
<knome> haha;)
<jjfrv8> knome, are you about?
<knome> am!
<jjfrv8> can you do a PM?
<knome> sure
<lderan> knome & elfy http://paste.ubuntu.com/6840722/
<knome> lderan, ok, good, so what's the next step?
<knome> or do we have to be satisfied with that? :)
<lderan> :P will see if i can get the stubborn ones to work, tho don't have much hope with onboard and notes as they don't make normal windows.
<knome> right, but what about the ones that work?
<lderan> and make indivial merge requests for the rest and then begin writing the more complicated tests for the ones we can press buttons in
<knome> are we able to extend those, or "is that it"?
<lderan> yup we can, we can test the settings manager for the options that open new windows like the main menu settings, but for the ones don't like appearance we can't see if it changes the window's title :(
<knome> catfish, mousepad, ristretto, xfce4-* look especially interesting :)
<knome> bah
<lderan> will keep you updated on discoveries tho
<knome> sure
<knome> thanks for looking at it
<lderan> no problem, apologies for being not more time on it sooner.
<knome> nah;)
<lderan> spending* I can't type today / ever :P
<lderan> right time for the upgrade test
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-30
<Unit193> ochosi: So only thing we're waiting for is knome to ack and someone to upload, right?  Everyone is fine with their email/name/etc?
<knome> ack from my side.
<Unit193> You don't even know if I filled it with rats or something.
<knome> we'll find out...
<Unit193> Did anyone save the rejected ones?
<knome> no, they were infinitely deleted from the planet earth
<Unit193> Bummer.
<knome> they are still in /Accepted
<knome> and in a secret tarball somewhere
<knome> and my, ochosi's and probably pleia2's harddrives
<bluesabre> mine too
 * bluesabre is sneaky
<ochosi> Unit193: i've sent them all an email together, let's give them until after the weekend to respond. just in case someone doesnt want their email or realname there...
<ochosi> Unit193: so far i only collected the infos, only one of them has ack'ed it expressis verbis
<Unit193> Sure, it'd take a while to get it up anywho.
<Noskcaj> menulibre is now updated, mugshot is upload ready
<Noskcaj> and i'll do parole later tonight
<ochosi> i presume 0.6?
<Noskcaj> yeah
<ochosi> cool
<Noskcaj> mugshot's uploaded, but in NEW
<elfy> lderan: thanks - seen the pastebin 
<zequence> I'd like to add a couple of apps to be autostarted when the user logs in, by default. How does one add that for users, by default?
<zequence> Ah, /etc/xdg/autostart/*.desktop
<slickymaster> morning all
<slickymaster> work meeting
<slickymaster> bbl after lunch ->
<Unit193> zequence: You may want to make sure it doesn't conflict with another package or settings package.  You can use /etc/xdg/ubuntustudio/autostart/ if the path already exists in another package.
<zequence> Unit193: It's for the next version of the application ubuntustudio-controls, and the idea is that it should autostart on any DE
<zequence> There's a way to make it only start on certain DEs though, specified in the desktop file
<zequence> even if put in /etc/xdg/autostart
<Unit193> Yep, and to exclude a few.
<Unit193> OnlyShowIn, NotShownIn.
<brainwash> bug 880533
<ubottu> bug 880533 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar reports Trash Empty when it is not" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880533
<brainwash> not yet fixed, delete a file and relog to reproduce it
<knome> brainwash, where's your patch for the bug?
<brainwash> knome: work in progress I guess
<brainwash> does anyone here use whisker menu?
<brainwash> if it's the left most item in the panel and you try to drag a panel window button, does the whisker menu panel item turn black?
<brainwash> nevermind, it's a known issue
 * pmjdebruijn uses 1.3.1 backported to saucy
<brainwash> https://github.com/gottcode/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/issues/37
<brainwash> BUT it might affect more/all external panel plugins
<brainwash> occasionally it happens to the places plugin too
<pmjdebruijn> sounds like a panel bug?
<brainwash> could be, marking whisker menu as internal plugin apparently resolves the glitch
<pmjdebruijn> btw in the next intel video driver there are going to be some nice fixes, which are relevant for xfwm
<pmjdebruijn> brainwash: huh?
<brainwash> "Something else that also solved the bug for me was making the plugin internal instead of external."
<brainwash> you mean SNA related fixes?
<pmjdebruijn> define internal vs external?
<pmjdebruijn> brainwash: indeed
<pmjdebruijn> I helped troubleshoot like 5+ bugs in grand total
<pmjdebruijn> 2 were xfwm artifacts with sna
<pmjdebruijn> and 3 were TearFree related (which defaults to off)
<brainwash> ppor dev, he is working on SNA on a daily base, but it still causes so many glitches
<brainwash> tearfree related? did not notice anything odd
<pmjdebruijn> do you have tearfree enabled i nthe intel driver?
<pmjdebruijn> (not xfwm)
<brainwash> currently not, but I did enable it occasionally
<pmjdebruijn> will latest git master it should finally be reliable
<pmjdebruijn> I hit a lot of issues using chromium
<brainwash> but didn't notice anything strange
<pmjdebruijn> chromium :)
<brainwash> other than the expected performance loss
<brainwash> oh ok
<pmjdebruijn> there were lots of cornercases :)
<brainwash> firefox here
<pmjdebruijn> yeah didn't have any issues there either
<pmjdebruijn> and I had some weird issue with scummvm :)
<pmjdebruijn> like I said, I helped troubleshoot 5 (or 6?) issues by now :)
<pmjdebruijn> ickle did the hard work of actually fixing stuff
<brainwash> awesome :)
<pmjdebruijn> just trying to get the intel driver in as best shape as possible for the next LTS
<brainwash> hopefully we get all the fixes to land in trusty
<brainwash> and regarding internal/external -> https://github.com/gottcode/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/issues/37#issuecomment-29758966
<brainwash> I assume that the internal plugins are all those which ship with xfce4-panel
<brainwash> app menu, window buttons,..
<brainwash> I'll file a report against xfce4-panel after some more testing
 * slickymaster damns his work internet connection
<knome> slickymaster, yes (re: docs meeting)
<knome> any reason not o?
<knome> to
<slickymaster> knome: ok, just lost connectivity and didn't notice 
<slickymaster> if you've answer
<slickymaster> it's ok with me
<knome> ;)
<brainwash> pmjdebruijn: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10656
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10656 in General "Dragging a panel window button turns external panel plugin black" [Normal,New]
<slickymaster> knome: I have to go and pick up my kid at school. will be back in about 45 minutes
<slickymaster> ->
<ochosi> nice, fixed power-indicator already landed in trusty (with support for xfce4-powerman)
<jjfrv8-work> if I disappear unexpectedly, it's because I've got like a triple remote connection going on here
<pleia2> hah, sounds fun
<jjfrv8-work> if it stays up :)
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan 30 18:59:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> so who's here for the meeting
<jjfrv8-work> o/
<slickymaster> o/
<pleia2> o/
<elfy> yep
<knome> ok, cool
<knome> let me get my act together :d
<knome> !team | meeting time
<ubottu> meeting time: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<knome> #topic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> #action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status 
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
<knome> #action elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily 
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily
<knome> did that happen?
<ali1234> again already?
<ali1234> where does the time go?
<knome> ali1234, shoo :P
<elfy> poked and nothing happened
<knome> keeping it carried on to make sure things happen
<Noskcaj> o/
<knome> #action knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position
<knome> still TBD
<knome> #action knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth
<knome> TBD
<knome> #action ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back 
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back
<knome> #action ~QA to write tests for new packages, sync to tracker and call for testing 
<meetingology> ACTION: ~QA to write tests for new packages, sync to tracker and call for testing
<knome> elfy, want to carry that on?
<elfy> well it's ongoing 
<knome> i ask you a simple yes/no question and you start with "well..." ;)
<elfy> well ... 
<elfy> yes
<knome> do you need a weekly reminder?
<elfy> no
<knome> ok
<knome> haha, so dropping it then :P
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x1769290>
<elfy> ok :p
<knome> #action team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters 
<meetingology> ACTION: team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters
<knome> #nick team
<knome> that's it.
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> please use #info and #action (for new action items) as appropriate
<knome> lderan, autopilot
<knome> Unit193, -core email
<knome> #info knome updated the meetings page with the new structure
<slickymaster> #info slickymaster finished Mugshot's online documentation -> http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs
<elfy> #info Image testing for the last 7 days -> 64 bit image tests 3, no 32 bit tests reported
<elfy> #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 64 bit 13.10 to 14.04 5 reported for update manager upgrading, no tests from image
<elfy> #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 64 bit lts to lts 5 reported for update manager upgrading, 3 reported for image update
<elfy> #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 32 bit 13.10 to 14.04 2 reported for update manager upgrading, no tests from image
<elfy> #info Upgrade testing since call earlier in the week - 32 bit lts to lts 2 reported for update manager upgrading, none reported for image update
<elfy> #info Settings Manager test call out soon - includes light-locker
<knome> #info knome looked into the docs SRU and the new, fixed package (thanks bluesabre) should land in precise any day.
<elfy> #info Manual testcase continues prior to calls 
<knome> ali1234, news about gtk3 indicators?
<knome> #info knome, ochosi and pleia2 held a meeting and selected the winners for the community wallpapers
<ali1234> some changes were pushed to the indicators but still no fix to the core library problems afaik
<knome> #info knome did housecleaning on the blueprints
<knome> ali1234, ok, cheers
<Noskcaj> #info mugshot in debian NEW
<Noskcaj> #info menulibre updated
<Noskcaj> #info parole 0.6 in ubuntu repos
<knome> Noskcaj, i'd appreciate "#info Noskcaj did ..." (easier for the team reports)
<Noskcaj> ok.
<ali1234> it's looking a lot like we'll have to wait until feature freeze and then demand it's either fixed or rolled back
<slickymaster> #info slickymaster started to work on migrating Mugshot documentation into docbook format
<Noskcaj> #info Noskcaj updated gthumb to 3.3
<knome> ali1234, but new "features" are in already, just broken?
<micahg-work> ali1234, does the current gtk3 indicator stack need to be uploaded to the archive still or is that waiting on fixes?
<ali1234> micahg-work: there is nothing new on our side. the problems all exist in the unity stack
<Unit193> knome: Yes?
<ali1234> knome: the new features are in some packages and not others
<knome> Unit193, please #info that you actually did something!
<ali1234> that mismatch is half the problem
<knome> ali1234, okay. then we should get the new features in before FF if at all possible (there's still time)
<knome> ali1234, but other than that, FF shouldn't be the hard deadline for the fixes, and i'm optimistic of landing those fixes
<ali1234> i don't know the status of stuff like xfce4-panel actually
<micahg-work> I uploaded 2 SRUs, but I don't remember which ones
<ali1234> we can't land any fixes in libindicator3 for example, that is what is currently broken
<ali1234> and it is broken in unity too, still
<Unit193> #info Unit193 sent a message to the list about the xubuntu-core meta.
<micahg-work> ali1234, is there a summary of the issues somewhere (or list of bugs)
<knome> #info lderan made a list of apps that can be ran simple "does it open" tests with autopilot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6840722/
<ali1234> micahg-work: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-network/+bug/1185565 and https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/libindicator/remove-timeout/+merge/198070
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1185565 in libindicator "Indicators should have Upstart jobs" [Medium,Confirmed]
<knome> ali1234, micahg-work: if you don't mind, i'll add an action item for you to follow up on it and actually fix the stupid issues
<knome> #action ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 and micahg to follow up on gtk3 indicator stack issues
<knome> #nick micahg
<ali1234> i already sent a MR, there's nothing more i can do until tedg gets around to fixing it
<micahg-work> ali1234, poke tedg and ask if he has time to review or can hand off to someone else
<ali1234> i'm poking him once a week already
<knome> micahg-work, any possibility you could oversee how that goes? would be good to have more people on top of the issue
<ali1234> i've spoken to him several times about this already and it's always "yeah, i'm working on it"
<ali1234> he knows and understands the problems we face
<micahg-work> well, that's great, but I don't see why an MR should go 8 weeks without a review 
 * micahg-work <-- pot
<ali1234> because it's part of a much bigger change, basically
<micahg-work> yes, but there are ways to move these things forward, maybe it should be merged into a branch instead
<ali1234> there are a bunch of other issues around this too, like under xubuntu it wont actually use upstart to launch indicators, because it's hardcoded to only do that in unity
<knome> looking at the bug, not everybody agrees with what is going on
<ali1234> knome: right
<ali1234> that's a problem too
<knome> i guess we're fine to do weekly reminders for a few more weeks
<knome> if things do not progress, look at it again then
<jjfrv8-work> sorry about that. I'm back.
<knome> i guess another thing you could try, ali1234, is add more reviewers for the MP.
<knome> jjfrv8-work, np :)
<micahg-work> rewriting the indicator stack for the LTS seems so wrong...
<ali1234> right, this is why i mentioned FF and either fix NOW or rollback
<micahg-work> yeah
<knome> as long as gtk3 indicators work for us, i don't mind how this falls
<ali1234> we can always add the workaround to the environment
<knome> ali1234, micahg-work: please obey the action item and follow up on it as much as needed :)
<knome> and i'm of course also available, if you need something i can do to help.
<brainwash> maybe we could already switch to gtk3 indicators and use the workaround (exporting an env var)
<micahg-work> wait, we're still on GTK2 indicators?
<knome> since FF is still somewhat far, i don't think it makes sense to push a workaround and then start using the new "real" fix
<ali1234> agreed
<ali1234> but it's always there if we need it
<brainwash> the workaround can be reverted easily
<knome> rather wait until the FF, and if the situation *then* looks stupid, do the workaround
<brainwash> ok
<knome> brainwash, it's still more work to get the workaround up than not.
<ali1234> micahg-work: i'm not sure what is actually in the archive, because i work mainly upstream
<micahg-work> ok
<knome> we have to believe things are going to be fixed eventually
<Noskcaj> micahg-work, i've got the stuff in a PPA, but i'd rather wait for a real release to upload stuff
<brainwash> yes, Noskcaj's PPA + workaround works fine
<Noskcaj> archive is all possible 4.11 stuff + garcon git snapshot
<micahg-work> while I generally prefer that, we need baketime for the LTS, now if it'll just be broken in the archive, there's no point in uploading
<ali1234> it's not as badly broken as gtk2 indicators...
<knome> well exactly, my opinion is: hold until nearer to FF
<knome> and see if things are fixed and then decide what to do, once, rather than uploading any workarounds now and having to poke around it later
<Noskcaj> Is that for both panel and indicator?
<brainwash> there is no panel 4.11 release yet
<knome> looks like we're done with this. people involved, please keep in touch with each other.
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> i have one!
<knome> at the end of the T cycle, jjfrv8-work will step from the doc lead position.
<knome> while the T cycle lasts, he will keep on leading, with the assistance of slickymaster 
<knome> and if everything goes well, jjfrv8-work should be able to hand over the leader hat to slickymaster at the start of the U cycle
<knome> of course, with the approval of the team
 * Unit193 approves.
 * elfy approves
 * pleia2 approves
<knome> we are going to have a meeting on docs issues sometime soon, where those two can update each other on the situation etc.
 * Noskcaj approves  the approvals
<micahg-work> sure
<knome> (well the approval should happen later, when U cycle is starting :P)
<knome> so, anybody interested in docs... hear hear!
<knome> jjfrv8-work, slickymaster: you around to schedule?
<slickymaster> yeaps
<jjfrv8-work> yes
<knome> whatever time works for you two is the best
<knome> next week before/after the community meeting?
<jjfrv8-work> next week I should be pretty flexible
<slickymaster> next week is my ubuntu membership meeting
<slickymaster> it depends on how much it will eventually take
<knome> friday though, isn't that it
<slickymaster> on the UM meeting ins on the 6th
<slickymaster> is^^
<knome> aha
<knome> then i've mismarked that on my calendar ;)
<knome> what about wednesday 19utc then?
<jjfrv8-work> ok with me
<slickymaster> fine with me, also
<knome> ok, that's it
<knome> #info Documentation checkup meeting on Wednesday, Feb 5 at 19UTC
<knome> aaand thanks for both jjfrv8-work and slickymaster for all the work they have done this far and will do in the future!
<knome> any other announcements?
 * pleia2 adds to calendar
<knome> pleia2, ta
<knome> pleia2, you can add thu 19utc as the community meeting while you're at it
<knome> ok, moving on
<knome> #topic Agenda
<knome> #subtopic Enabling more people to push to Xubuntu branches (separate branches team, or would -team do?)
<knome> micahg-work, ping
<micahg-work> yes?
<knome> see the subtopic
<knome> basically, we'd like to allow more people to be able to push to xubuntu branches
<micahg-work> depends on the branches
<knome> -default-settings
<knome> mostly, i think
<micahg-work> we can separate the branches from the uploaders team
<knome> mhm
<knome> do you think it would be ok to add them under ~xubuntu-team, or would you prefer a new team?
<Noskcaj> I'd suggest we allow -team to modify branches
<micahg-work> but I'd prefer to limit the people who can push to people who understand the package and have proven through MRs that they know what they're doing
<Unit193> Would be best to use merges and have a couple review and approve.
<micahg-work> yes
<knome> ok, so something like ~xubuntu-branches
 * Unit193 likes to have at least bluesabre take a look.
<micahg-work> so, I'd basically move the xubuntu-dev team out of the DMB control and we would create a new team for uploaders when someone needs that
<micahg-work> xubuntu-dev is fine
<knome> ok,
<knome> when you say "when someone needs that", what are you exactly referring to?
<knome> when somebody gains packageset uploader access?
<micahg-work> yes
<Noskcaj> That takes for ever
<knome> right, i would hope that happens sometime soon
<knome> and rather create a new team for -branches
<Noskcaj> micahg-work, Is there anything you can do to speed up my application?
<Noskcaj> It will be a month tomorrow
<Noskcaj> probably a new record
<knome> but i guess i'm fine with doing what you proposed, then create ~xubuntu-dev-upload if/when we need it
<micahg-work> Noskcaj, it's being discussed
<Noskcaj> ok
<micahg-work> knome, the uploader team would be managed by the DMB, so, nothing to worry about there
<knome> micahg-work, sure
<knome> micahg-work, can i get back to you on this in a week or so, to land the change
<micahg-work> land what change?
<knome> the LP teams changes, and separating -dev from upload stuff
<knome> or would you rather just do it right away, or does it need some ack from the DMB?
<micahg-work> oh, I just need to discuss quickly with the DMB
<knome> ok, sure
<knome> #action micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to talk with the DMB and separate -dev from upload rights so we can allow more people to push to xubuntu branches
<knome> #info if we need packageset uploader rights for certain people later, we shall create a new team for that purpose
<micahg-work> nope
<micahg-work> DMB would create that
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x1632310>
<knome> #info if we need packageset uploader rights for certain people later, we shall ask DMB to create a new team for that purpose
<knome> nitpicking says me!
<knome> #subtopic Status of Bluetooth in Xubuntu; what kind of testing we want to run, which software we want to use? 
<knome> micahg-work, do you have any opinion to that discussion?
<micahg-work> ah, so, I think blueman upstream has be revived
<Noskcaj> fyi: i updated blueman last week
<knome> do we have a preference? do they all work with indicators, or do we need to consider that kind of issues?
<micahg-work> is there something better out there, IIRC, blueman was the only one that worked well that didn't pull in half the GNOME stack
<knome> then that sounds like a good one to use
<knome> if there's no problems with using that...
<micahg-work> if there's another alternative, I'm all ears, but with the recent resurgence of development on blueman, I think it's a good horse to be hitched to
<Noskcaj> I think blueman has a memory leak though
<cyphermox> there are no big alternatives really
<cyphermox> memleaks are fixable ;)
 * micahg-work waves to cyphermox 
 * cyphermox waves back
<Noskcaj> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=700863
<ubottu> Debian bug 700863 in blueman "blueman-applet eats up memory" [Important,Open]
<Noskcaj> There's two other memory leaks i know of in xubuntu, so if someone could help me with them after the meeting
<micahg-work> 1 year with no response from reporter , that bug isn't likely to be addressed
<Noskcaj> no
<knome> can anybody from the team even confirm that bug?
<Noskcaj> It's just blueman uses 40mb of ram here and i've never used bluetooth
<micahg-work> that doesn't sound like a memory leak as much as not loading on demand
<cyphermox> Noskcaj: guess it would be worth running it through massif
<micahg-work> if you said 400MB, that would sound like a memory leak
<Noskcaj> I'll leave it on during the day to see if i can reproduce it
<cyphermox> micahg-work: it really ought to be running all the time, to be able to get you anything
<cyphermox> unless you don't have a bluetooth device of course
<micahg-work> cyphermox, right, I have that on one machine, bluetooth is off and it's running
<cyphermox> ah
<knome> so i guess the gist is that we should use blueman.
<knome> great, go file bugs!
<knome> (:
<knome> #subtopic Discuss documentation translations
<knome> we should mostly do this on the docs meeting, but...
<elfy> ummm - so what about testing blueman - forget it ?
<knome> right... test it!  :)
<micahg-work> hrm?
<knome> micahg-work, hrm to what?
<micahg-work> can launchpad not translate the docs?
<micahg-work> hrm to test..
<knome> it can
<knome> we're doing that.
<knome> we have the .po files in the branch
<elfy> #action Someone with bluetooth to write a testcase
<meetingology> ACTION: Someone with bluetooth to write a testcase
<knome> but we need to tweak the packaging to build the translations and display them in a sane way
<knome> Unit193 has been helping with that
<slickymaster> there are already finish and portuguese versions of the docs
<slickymaster> finnish ^^
<knome> we also might need/want to set some kind of cut-off percentages, if that's not happening now
<knome> micahg-work, if you happen to know about that side as well, poke Unit193 and me..
<micahg-work> not too much, I could help on the packaging side
<Unit193> knome: It was for me, I have that set up but not sure if any sane person would like it. :P
<elfy> I've gtg - thanks - cya 
<knome> micahg-work, that's probably helpful as well
<knome> but ok, let's follow up on that
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> #info Next meeting Thursday, Feb 6, 19UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan 30 20:01:21 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-30-18.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-30-18.59.html
<pleia2> on the calendar :)
<knome> Noskcaj, so what about time- and users-admin?
<Unit193> Hah, beat me.
<Noskcaj> knome, I have no idea
<Noskcaj> elfy has issues with it, i just did ask pitti asked, since i don't know the package very well
<knome> Noskcaj, you can't leave a mess behind.
<Noskcaj> i know. I think i asked elfy to ask pitti about it
<knome> Noskcaj, why can't you ask pitti as you were the one who made the changes?
<knome> i can't see why elfy would need to pick it up
<Noskcaj> good point. My reasoning was i don't understand the issue
<Unit193> micahg-work: I changed the packaging locally to be 'dh7' or dh sequencing, and a couple others.
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Issue is, nothing is installed except 'pixmaps', try installing the package.
<Unit193> Look at the .install file
<Noskcaj> That's how debian has it, strangely
<knome> maybe the debian package is broken
<Unit193> knome: No, it's not split up.
<knome> okay, then maybe the ubuntu port is broken
<knome> which leads us to... Noskcaj, please fix it. Unit193 just told you what's wrong
<Noskcaj> ok
<knome> thanks
<Noskcaj> on a different topic, do we want xkb-plugin 0.7 ?
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools built packages vs http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gnome-system-tools.html binaries.
<knome> would also think cleaning your mess would help you gaining access rights
<knome> re: xkb-plugin; i don't know; is there a very specific reason to have it?
<Unit193> xkb-plugin?  Is that seeded?
<Unit193> So it is.
<knome> i'm off.
<Unit193> knome: You know what's proper in a Makefile? :P
<knome> see you later :)
<Unit193> Bah.
<Unit193> Chau.
<knome> Unit193, no
<Noskcaj> debian dropped back off 0.7, it might be worth seeing if we want it. http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/x/xfce4-xkb-plugin/unstable_changelog
<knome> you can tell me and i'll read it when i get back ;)
<slickymaster> dinner time for. bbl ->
<knome> Noskcaj, that doesn't tell much
<knome> but yeah, i'm really off
<knome>  ->
<Noskcaj> the new xkb plugin is for settings 4.11, and the current one might break settings
<Noskcaj> It will also allow us to patch bug 733563
<ubottu> bug 733563 in xfce4-xkb-plugin (Ubuntu) "Can't change font for keyboard layout indicator" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/733563
<Unit193> slickymaster: Russian is also pretty complete, but not fully.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, you're right, all the files are missing from the binary. I'm guessing it's the extra packages we make
<Noskcaj> https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu/trusty/gnome-system-tools/regression-fix/+merge/204099
<ochosi> hmpf, wasn't able to make the meeting...
<Unit193> That's alright, we just assigned everything to you.
<ochosi> cool
<slickymaster> yeah Unit193, Russian is 84% done
<slickymaster> and GridCube has been keeping himself busy, the Spanish translation is half way through it
<ochosi> so gtk3-panel and indicators are on hold, eh? :/#
<Unit193> slickymaster: Not quite >80% yet though, so not autogenerated.
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> ochosi, until they work, or until we are so close to FF that we will (have to) land them with a workaround
<knome> Noskcaj, fixing that bug is nowhere near our top priority
<ochosi> actually the only indicator that doesn't work for me is appindicator at the moment
<ochosi> sound and power work just fine
 * Unit193 downloaded that one from saucy repos, works fine. :P
<ochosi> yeah, but only because there is no upstart job yet
<ochosi> (which is why it's borked in the first place i guess)
<knome> ochosi, the ubuntu folks do not agree on whether they should have upstart jobs or "actually fix" .. something
<Unit193> I like how they land something that's half transitioned, thus broken. :D
<knome> yep
<knome> but isn't that how it always goes?
<ochosi> yeah, but at least the panel we will need if we want gtk3 indicators
<knome> "ok boys, this cycle, no breaking stuff"
<knome> "oops we landed that too early"
<ochosi> that wouldn't be affected by changes to the indicator stack, it would mostly affect xfce4-indicator-plugin
<knome> ochosi, well you read my reasoning why we want to hold
<knome> ochosi, or why i want to hold
<knome> ochosi, the branches stuff is moving forward.
<ochosi> yeah, looking forward to that
<ochosi> we should definitely try to prepare branches for the case that indicators get fixed with upstart jobs (or even: for the case that we use them)
<ochosi> especially a default-settings branch and a seed-branch
<Unit193> Yes, but just swap out the indicator-*-gtk2 for indicator-foo.  That's application and sound.
<ochosi> well, and add in -power
<ochosi> (and set powerman to always hide the trayicon)
<Unit193> Doesn't xfpm do whatever that does?
<Unit193> Just because we can't doesn't mean we should.  Something about seeding "all" doesn't make sense either, since that'd be at least: indicator-application indicator-appmenu indicator-appmenu-tools indicator-bluetooth indicator-china-weather indicator-cpufreq indicator-datetime indicator-sync indicator-sound indicator-session indicator-printers indicator-power indicator-network indicator-multiload indicator-messages indicator-location ...
<Unit193> ... indicator-keyboard
<ochosi> yeah, seeding sound, application, power and if needed bluetooth seems good enough
<Unit193> Bleh. :P
<knome> printers?
<ochosi> i think they use app-indicators atm
<knome> bluesabre, just don't take too much on your plate :)
<Unit193> ^ +1
<knome> bluesabre, but i just wanted to let you know people are asking about that
<Unit193> I'm still interested as well, I wouldn't purge that.
<knome> same.
<brainwash> ochosi: and messages?
<ochosi> yeah, guess also messages
<brainwash> what about printers?
<ochosi> but i don't have a strong opinion on messages as i've never used it
<ochosi> afaik printers use indicator-application atm
<Unit193> Already have something for printers.
<knome> my take on it is that some people like it, some people hate it
<ochosi> like/hate what?
<ochosi> messaging?
<ochosi> err, -messages?
<knome> yep
<ochosi> well i don't have a strong opinion because i've never tried how well it works with out default messaging apps
<knome> yep
<ochosi> (thunderbird, pidgin..)
<knome> well,
<knome> it could be a make-or-break thing for *single* users, but not the distro
<bluesabre> from my experience, it works great for pidgin and thunderbird
<Unit193> Quassel is iffy.
<bluesabre> (finally caught up)
<Unit193> Click any notification bubbles and up pops quassel...
<bluesabre> but... thats not the indicator
<bluesabre> :
<Unit193> Right.
<Unit193> (Quassel works with the indicator though, sort of.)
<bluesabre> anybody else think action buttons at the top of a window are stupid? http://worldofgnome.org/a-redesigned-file-picker-4-gnome-mockups/
<Unit193> Very.
<Unit193> When the Windows Metro UI is starting to look sane....
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> btw, adding these packages could be a value-add: libappindicator1    libappindicator3-1
<knome> value added tax?
<bluesabre> they're not pulled by the indicator stack, or indicator-application, yet they are required for skype and dropbox indicators (with no documentation)
<bluesabre> and probably others as well
<Unit193> Package: nautilus-dropbox -> Recommends: libappindicator1
<bluesabre> it might be the 3-1 that is required then
<bluesabre> there is an askubuntu about it somewhere
<bluesabre> anyway, :_
<bluesabre> )
<Unit193> indicator-application: Depends: libappindicator3-1  same with network-manager-gnome.
 * bluesabre will do more research to figure out what the lib is later
<Unit193> libappindicator3-1 is even pulled in onto xubuntu-core, which doesn't even have the indicators. :D
 * bluesabre returns to programming
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes, and when you figure out why there is a libappindicator1, libappindicator3-1, libindicate5, libindicator3-7, and libindicator7 tell us?? :P
<Unit193> Sure, have fun!
<bluesabre> because ubuntu!
<ali1234> the ones with -3 are the gtk versions
<ali1234> gtk3 versions
<Unit193> libappindicator3-1 and libindicator3-7 are hard deps from something because -core pulls those two (and those are the only *indicat* packages.)
<Unit193> Ah, hrm.
<ali1234> appindicator is how all apps make their own indicators
<ali1234> you either use appindicator, or you integrate with an existing indicator (sound, message...)
<ochosi> yeah, which makes it suck even more that that one is currently not working in trusty :/
<ali1234> appindicator = indicator-application
<ochosi> yeah
<ali1234> libindicator5 = i have no idea what that is
<Unit193> libappindicator1 gtk2, libappindicator3-1 gtk3 and they are for the indicator-application, OK.
<ochosi> frankly, i've been wondering since saucy whether we should just try to avoid indicators in our default panel layout
<Unit193> 5 is what threw me off, this all makes more sense now except for that.
<knome> ochosi, sucks for laptop users
<ochosi> there was once talk of an mpris2 plugin for the xfce-panel
<ochosi> knome: why?
<knome> battery indicator?
<Unit193> ali1234: Thanks.
<knome> or is there still components for the notification area?
<ochosi> knome: we never had an indicator for that
<ochosi> that was always a trayicon
<knome> what about sound?
<Unit193> !info volumeicon
<ubottu> Package volumeicon does not exist in saucy
<ochosi> that is an indicator, actually the only real one we have
<Unit193> !info volumeicon-alsa
<ubottu> volumeicon-alsa (source: volumeicon): systray volume icon for alsa. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.6-2 (saucy), package size 37 kB, installed size 181 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<brainwash> xfce4-mixer plugin
<Unit193> Boom.
<knome> alsa, meh
<ochosi> Unit193: we need something for pulse though
<ali1234> basically without indicators you are stuck using the horrible crappy and broken tray icons, or writing xfce panel plugins
<knome> ochosi, ^ that might be your winning answer
<Unit193> ochosi: Well, that source package now supports pulse.
<knome> i don't think migrating to indicators *itself* is too bad...
<ali1234> if you think indicators are bad, tray icons are 100x worse
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> yeah, i agree that trayicons suck
<brainwash> why do they suck?
<knome> aaand we have a winner ;)
<knome> congrats ali1234 
<ali1234> no multimonitor support, not process separation...
<bluesabre> thing is, everything will be significantly easier once there is an official gtk3 xfce4-panel
<knome> bluesabre, now you're kidding ;)
<bluesabre> no more hacky workarounds
<bluesabre> when we get that 
<bluesabre> in 2017
<ochosi> well in fact the current git-panel handles it okay
<knome> besides, didn't you go back to programming?
<bluesabre> after gtk5 is out
<knome> ochosi, isn't that what we're going to land in T?
<ali1234> there wont be a gtk5
<bluesabre> there's interesting discussion here
<ali1234> there will be nothing left to remove by gtk4
<knome> procrastinating, i see
<bluesabre> haha
<ochosi> anyhow, i think i'll try to do releases for our themes now, adding in support for gtk3 indicators, in case they ever land...
<ochosi> ali1234: hehe, good point
<knome> ochosi, they will, one way or another
<bluesabre> ali1234: what about all the stuff they are adding in gtk3? they can get rid of that :)
<knome> ochosi, they aren't on infinite hold, just "for now"
<knome> ochosi, don't worry!
<knome> i hate to see ochosi sad
<ochosi> knome: yeah, trying hard to start loving the bomb...
<knome> i hate even more when ochosi is ironic, but kind of right
<dr_strangelove> maybe that helps
<dr_strangelove> meh, doesn't seem to help...
<ochosi> ali1234: quick question, as that's kinda relevant for our default panel setup, are you aiming at 14.04 with panel-switch?
<ali1234> no, not really
<ochosi> okey
<knome> ali1234, maybe you should ;)
<knome> push, push, push!
<ali1234> i noticed that debian has a tool for this already
<ali1234> when you first log in it asks you what layout you want
<knome> does it bring half of gnome?
<ali1234> you only get two choices though
<ali1234> i dunno, it's installed y default
<ochosi> that sounds nice actually
<ochosi> i mean only being asked once is kinda "hmmm"
<ochosi> but still
<knome> doesn't allow experimenting
<knome> so it's really "meh"
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-31
<pleia2> hey knome
<knome> hello pleia2 
<pleia2> we should take this and s/mint/xubuntu http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/poster/start-ubuntu-addis-announcement
<knome> pleia2, for the flyer, or in addition?
<pleia2> in addition
<pleia2> this is a short term thing, probably easy
<pleia2> just need to like two sentences and a screenshot and logo :)
<knome> i can do the same without ubuntu and create an all-xubuntu look for it
<bluesabre> knome is an over-achiever
<pleia2> seems like a lot of work, and I do kind of like the ubuntu anchor (since people are starting to know what it is, or at least that it is)
<knome> or leave ubuntu for lesser role, without screenshots and stuff
<knome> ubuntu or startubuntu?
<pleia2> ubuntu
<knome> ok, we can leave that
<knome> i don't have problems creating a new page either though
<knome> wondering what the source format is
<knome> sla, so scribus
<knome> i can do that.
<knome> i guess my hidden thought is that once i've done one poster, we have a template for those
<pleia2> I just think this is nice to get done real quick and out the door
<knome> give me the weekend, and i'll be ready with it
<pleia2> I do still want the xubuntu one finished, but scale is only 3 weeks away now and I'm not sure I'll have time to print that
<knome> do you also want the "don't hesitate to write me..."
<pleia2> knome: delete that, maybe replace with some kind of generic help link
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll be in touch with you at latest on monday with a draft
<knome> so letter and A4 ?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> oki
<pleia2> good golly, http://www.ubuntu.com/support still lists lp answers
<knome> bluesabre, me? :P
<pleia2> imma file ze bug
<knome> lol
<knome> pleia2, if you have time, please write the text you want
<pleia2> will do momentarily
<knome> no hurry, i can draft with the existing text
<knome> bluesabre, this is something i do for clients, usually in an even tighter schedule...
<knome> "can you do me a two-sided a4 broschure with our logos, the deadline is yesterday at noon"
<knome> and how can i say no to them? their money is so cute!
 * Unit193 votes for the Xubuntu branded one. :P
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> yeah, but startubuntu can help spread the good word :)
<knome> sure
<knome> we're not competing their flyer ;)
<knome> and i imagine there is people who wish to mostly advocate xubuntu
<knome> so who not do that, if there's nothing blocking that and it doesn't eat a lot of our time?
<knome> seriously, that looks like a 15-30minute task
<knome> and i don't need to even bend time to be able to send the pdf out yesterday! :P
<pleia2> I plan on having this uploaded to spreadubuntu.org and sharing it right back with the startubuntu folks
<pleia2> I've been involved in the thread developing it, the mint thing surprised me and no likey ;)
<pleia2> mint ships things that aren't legal to ship in the US, so promoting it is not really my thing
<knome> promoting mint is not really my thing either
<pleia2> now I need to stop looking at ubuntu.com, 2 bugs today is enough
<knome> even if i don't think it's bad OS, nor do i have problems with their us-legal stuff
<knome> pleia2, you ok to drop the startubuntu banner though?
<pleia2> I dunno, I was thinking we keep it
<knome> oh bah
<knome> :)
<knome> pleia2, btw... slickymaster probably needs a shell.
<pleia2> sure thing
<knome> but i'm off to sleep
<pleia2> have a good night :)
<slickymaster> whatie?!
<knome> need to wake up relatively early tomorrow
<knome> slickymaster, ha!
<knome> nighty to you all as well :)
<pleia2> slickymaster: want a shell account?
<knome> pleia2, psst, he doesn't know he needs it!
<pleia2> the server only randomly reboots every month or so :)
<pleia2> haha
<slickymaster> I don't even know what are you talking about :)
<pleia2> it's how forestpiskie stays on the ircs all the time!
<knome> and bluesabre 
<bluesabre> yup
<slickymaster> hmm, a shell account in what?
<knome> slickymaster, in pleia2's server you silly one.
<knome> slickymaster, you could run an irc client that's on all the time, so we could poke you all day long.
 * slickymaster has to read the logs before asking :P
<pleia2> I have a community server set up to give people shell accounts on and host various ubuntu projects (and things like files for our wallpaper contest)
<bluesabre> thanks for your help with that, pleia2
<knome> yes, thank you!
<knome> slickymaster, there's no logs about it :D
<knome> slickymaster, i just set you up!
<slickymaster> I mean on the -dev channel
<knome> i'm lost but that's ok
<knome> off to bed :)
<slickymaster> well, during work hours I'm behind a proxy
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> so you'd need to get out on port 22
 * Unit193 wonders if pleia2 has ssh listening on any fun ports.
<knome> slickymaster, could still run a shell, and have all backlog ready waiting for you
<Unit193> Ah, guess not.
<pleia2> Unit193: nope
<knome> but... meh
<slickymaster> so there's no way I can get a connection with anything  besides using 8080 port
<knome> now i'm going ->
<pleia2> night knomey
<slickymaster> well, knome's got a point there
<Unit193> Not even 443 or 53?
<Unit193> knome: Good night.
<pleia2> Unit193: no :)
<slickymaster> have a good one knome 
<pleia2> makes me feel icky
<Unit193> pleia2: No, I meant slickymaster being able to access.  If you don't have it nor want it that fine, just seems weird what he can't/can access.
<pleia2> I know, I meant running it on other ports makes me feel icky ;)
 * pleia2 crosses arms
<pleia2> it's not right
<pleia2> :)
<slickymaster> I do see your point pleia2 
<Unit193> pleia2: I don't run mine on 22. :D
<Unit193> (Not to get around a firewall either.)
<slickymaster> otoh my work hours are just a third of my day
<Noskcaj> So my pc was stuck at a black screen when i got back from school. Maybe blueman does leak
<Unit193> TTY?
<Unit193> The plan is to seed the wallpapers?
<knome> Unit193, yeeeees
<Unit193> Hrm.
<elfy> knome: saw backlog - ta
<knome> elfy, np
<Unit193> 23M Jan 29 15:25 /var/www/ext/xubuntu-community-wallpapers_14.04.0_all.deb so might want to downsize/compress/etc.
<knome> yeah, i thought about it, but otoh... meh
<knome> talk with ochosi 
<Unit193> I have been in contact.
<knome> and the answer is? ;)
<Unit193> Didn't ask that, only saw the seeding after he went to sleep.
<Noskcaj> knome, From what i understand, xkb-plugin 0.7 just makes it work properly with srttings 4.11
<pmjdebruijn> 2560x1600 would be a nice target resolution :)
<Noskcaj> pmjdebruijn, 4k or nothing
<Noskcaj> ;)
<Noskcaj> but yeah
<Unit193> pmjdebruijn: http://paste.openstack.org/show/t3EPJUQU1O7bf0ROllKl
<pmjdebruijn> well
<pmjdebruijn> so there are two wallpaper which is silly large
<pmjdebruijn> are*
<Unit193> knome: Want to fix on the wiki or no?
<pmjdebruijn> what are the largest resolution displays atm 3200xsomething
<knome> Unit193, ochosi: i guess we could look into making gavin ashes submissions a bit smaller
<knome> Unit193, wiki in what sense?
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/CommunityWallpapers/Winners ?
<knome> what's to fix?
<Unit193> Make smaller? :P
<knome> ah bleh
<knome> i'll confirm with ochosi that it's fine to drop the resolution
<knome> but i guess it is
<ochosi> oh yes
<knome> everything to 2560x *
<ochosi> well if pmjdebruijn is fine with dropping the size, i think we can do it ;)
<knome> ?
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> thinking whether we should make an exception for traslasierra, but probably not
<elfy> ochosi: call for settings testing went out today - light-locker is included in that
<ochosi> thanks a bunch elfy 
<knome> ochosi, soooooo... should i do the resizing?
<ochosi> knome: for multi-monitor you mean with spanning ?
<knome> ochosi, i don't know what i mean. ;)
<ochosi> well that would be one reason to keep it larger
<ochosi> i don't know what the next-bigger standard resolution is though
<knome> i guess we should just resize all to 2560x
<knome> sources are always available
<ochosi> btw, there is still a little banding in the picture
<ochosi> guess i'll contact adrian again...
<knome> awwh
<ochosi> well it's a lot better already
<knome> fix it for good or i'll drop it! :P
<ochosi> pmjdebruijn: see what you did to me when we talked about banding?
<pmjdebruijn> ochosi: :)
<pmjdebruijn> btw the guy I mailed never replied
<knome> ochosi, rather cut solitude from the top?
<knome> ochosi, or bottom?
<knome> ochosi, or the same amount from both
<pmjdebruijn> I've tried solitude on my netbook
<pmjdebruijn> cutting from teh bottom works best in my opinion
<pmjdebruijn> 16:10
<knome> otoh the bottom part is what's on focus...
<knome> ochosi, waiting for your opinion
<knome> ochosi, btw, i need to go relatively soon, so...
<knome> ochosi, also, bleh, traslasierra file info says: Software: Adobe Photoshop CC
<Unit193> Shhh, just remove that or else we'll have that one bug all over again! :P
<knome> didn't ubuntu have that for their default wallpaper once?
<Unit193> lp 357218
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 357218 in ubuntu-wallpapers (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu wallpaper called warty-final-ubuntu.png is made with Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/357218
<knome> anyhow, i don't think it's a big thing to have something on the community wallpapers done with non-linux
<knome> it's *community* wallpapers
<Unit193> Yep.
<knome> where's that simon again
<knome> elfy, when have you planned to call for exploratory testing?
<knome> Unit193, did you have an idea for attributing translators?
<Unit193> Not really thought about it.
<knome> can you?
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/xubuntu/en_US/ln-idp21533444.html ?
<knome> that's as far as my thoughts go, but how do we technically do it?
<knome> if we use the launchpad-translators string, it's going to be formatted ugly
<knome> okay, i need to run
<Unit193> Run fast!
<knome> i'm afraid i have to do that
<knome> see you later!
<Unit193> Either way need to get slick in there.
<ochosi> sorry, coffee and breakfast stopped me back there
<Unit193> Don't be sorry for that...
<ochosi> yeah, well actually i would've become grumpy very soon otherwise
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> knome: i'll check them out and give you my opinion in the course of the next hours
<ochosi> btw, bubbles also has photoshop in the metadata
<ochosi> i personally suggest we drop all the original metadata and replace it with author-name and "xubuntu community wallpaper contest" in the comment
<ochosi> and the rest goes
<Unit193> And, is that wikipage going to be the source url?  Upload a tarball to there or just send one to me if it's handy. :D
<ochosi> yup, will do
<ochosi> knome: ok, i offered gavin ash to resize the wallpapers himself. he has been quite responsive so far, so i expect an answer until tomorrow
<slickymaster> morning all
<bluesabre> morning folks
<ochosi> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<slickymaster> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster: what's up?
<slickymaster> work, work... and some more work
<slickymaster> thank god it's friday
<ochosi> :>
<bluesabre> no joke
<bluetoooth> huh
<bluetoooth> hello
<bluetoooth> anybody in here
<bluetoooth> ?
<bluetoooth> asfafa
<bluetoooth> asf
<bluetoooth> sasdi
<bluetoooth> asd
<bluetoooth> asd
<bluetoooth> as
<bluetoooth> ads
<bluetoooth> adsadasda
<bluetoooth> asdasdadadaadasa
<bluetoooth> sadadaasdad
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> aaa
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> a
<bluetoooth> C
<bluetoooth> K
<bluetoooth> M
<bluetoooth> Y
<bluetoooth> U
<bluetoooth> B
<bluetoooth> U
<bluetoooth> N
<bluetoooth> U
<slickymaster> knome: you around?
<brainwash> ochosi: indicator-power cannot be configured via xfce4-power-manager (show icon always, if battery is present, never)
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, ofc
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> I cannot test it
<ochosi> my patch only allows you to open the settings from the indicator
<brainwash> oh
<ochosi> what you suggest is much more complex, would mean accessing the whitelist of the indicator-plugin
<brainwash> does it require gnome-settings-daemon?
<ochosi> (maybe not much more complex, but still)
<ochosi> no
<brainwash> the mentioned setting can be changed via gnome-control-center or gconf-editor/gsettings
<brainwash> xubuntu users would need to use the 2nd way
<brainwash> people usually don't like if settings gets hidden, that's the reason I mentioned it
<ochosi> well they can easily hide the battery-indicator with the indicator-plugin settings
<ochosi> it's just not as finegrain
<ochosi> and if they want that, they can use the trayicon for now
<elfy> knome: I haven't 
<elfy> probably not going to now
<elfy> knome: in fact I've postponed it 
<ochosi> knome: adrian, one of the wallpaper-winners, asked why we don't go for 2880x1800px as final resolution (that's the resolution of the macbook pro retina), but for 2560x1600
<ochosi> i personally don't have a strong opinion on this matter
<ochosi> and i don
<ochosi> t think that we have that many macbook pro retina users (well, also, they'll have more troubling toolkit problems than just a slightly fuzzy wallpaper)
<ochosi> from a scaling pov, there's no problem, both resolutions have a ratio of 1.6
<ochosi> and i think we have all (or most) wallpapers in big-enough size
<ochosi> so yeah, frankly i don't really care :>
<ochosi> ali1234: i hope you don't mind that i just pinged tedg. thought maybe it helps if more than one person ping him about indicators
<ali1234> i don't mind at all
<ochosi> doesn't seem like i'm getting any answers either though
<ochosi> ali1234: wanna join the discussion?
<ochosi> seems like a good time
<elfy> lderan: get any further with that a/p list than the one I saw the other day? 
<lderan> elfy, not yet, will be working on it this evening & tomorrow :)
<elfy> ok :)
<elfy> personally I think that if we manage to get this stuff working for Unreal Unicorn we (or rather those who did it) have done well]
 * lderan hopes that is the name of the 14.10 release
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> it won't be - except in my head 
<lderan> and now in mine 
<elfy> my work is done ... 
<elfy> hi Noskcaj - updates brought the -admins back now - cheers
<Noskcaj> no problem. I screwed up pretty badly on that one
<elfy> well - stuff happens - it's in what happens afterwards that makes the difference 
<elfy> no-one's perfect - apart from forestpiskie 
<elfy> it'd have been a bigger issue at the end of April - why we test and look at things :)
<brainwash> Noskcaj: regarding users-admin, do you thing we could replace the outdated group "admin" with the "sudo" group?
<brainwash> see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/gnome-system-tools/trusty/view/head:/src/users/user-profiles.conf.in
<Noskcaj> I can't see why not, but this would have to be an ubuntu wide change
<brainwash> right, it's distribution specific
<brainwash> currently looking for the bug report
<brainwash> this one is fixed now I guess bug 1273305
<ubottu> bug 1273305 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Users and Groups missing recently?" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273305
<brainwash> ok, got it
<brainwash> bug 1016932
<ubottu> bug 1016932 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Setting user as administrator doesn't give him sudoing rights" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016932
<brainwash> release note regarding "admin"/"sudo" group
<brainwash> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop#PrecisePangolin.2BAC8-ReleaseNotes.2BAC8-CommonInfrastructure.Common_Infrastructure
<brainwash> Noskcaj: you gonna take care of these 2 reports? should I create a branch for the 2nd one?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, I've said before, you understand the problem, it's probably better you try to fix it
<Noskcaj> I'm trying to update our version of pidgin
<brainwash> ok, please mark the first report as fixed :)
<brainwash> bug 1273305
<ubottu> bug 1273305 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "Users and Groups missing recently?" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273305
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-01
<Unit193> Still no info on resize? :/
<brainwash_> Unit193: bug 1275239
<ubottu> bug 1275239 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "screen freezes and flash not good Xubuntu XMir 13.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1275239
<Unit193> Meh, link isn't the best and he's not trying latest image.
<Unit193> Interesting though.
<knome> Unit193, wha?
<Unit193> "Responding" to scrollback.
<Unit193> What'd you decide on the images? :D
<knome> i already did 2560x* versions of all the images that were in the same ratio, but the question about solitude is still unanswered
<knome> eh, the startubuntu-themed flyer won't work too well with US letter
<cub> knome, are you engaged in the startubuntu project?
<knome> cub, not really.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-02-02
<Unit193> Are we going to want to ship the patches in xfce 10627 and xfce 10626?  I have the packages built for myself since xdg-user-dirs-gtk now updates ~/.config/gtk-3.0/bookmarks.
<ubottu> xfce bug 10627 in general "Use the new Gtk3 bookmarks location" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10627
<ubottu> xfce bug 10626 in General "Use the new Gtk3 bookmarks location." [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10626
<knome> Unit193, those sound like something we might want to use
<knome> Unit193, do you have any idea how the migration from gtk2 bookmarks (lts->lts upgrade) would go? user just loses his old bookmarks (unless he digs them up from the gtk2 bookmarks location?)
<ali1234> knome: it works exactly like it does in gtk3
<ali1234> it checks for the new file, if not found it checks for the old file
<ali1234> any time user adds or removes bookmarks the result is written to new file only
<ali1234> so the new file gets created the first time bookmarks are modified
<ali1234> we have to do exactly what gtk does if we use gtk file requester...
<ali1234> the only possible problem with those patches is if someone compiles up to date xfce against a really old gtk2 version
<ali1234> ideally it should detect gtk2 version and do something appropriate at build time, in configure scripts, but i never learned how to do that with autotools
<knome> does precise have a "really old gtk2 version" ?
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?h=gtk-2-24&id=de89546e30db83e6e10f72062b3b5c38814bb64d
<ali1234> older than that = "really old"
<ali1234> anyway, it won't cause anything worse than what happens now
<ali1234> currently the gtk file requester and thunar bookmarks are out of sync
<ali1234> unless you use "really old gtk2"
<ali1234> after the patch that will be reversed
<knome> !info libgtk2.0-0
<knome> eh,
<knome> !info libgtk2.0-0 precise
<ubottu> libgtk2.0-0 (source: gtk+2.0): GTK+ graphical user interface library. In component main, is optional. Version 2.24.20-1ubuntu1 (saucy), package size 1655 kB, installed size 6278 kB
<ubottu> libgtk2.0-0 (source: gtk+2.0): GTK+ graphical user interface library. In component main, is optional. Version 2.24.10-0ubuntu6 (precise), package size 2617 kB, installed size 6302 kB
<brainwash_> this bug is now invalid/outdated, right? bug 1173114
<ubottu> bug 1173114 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Raring desktop uses Quantal wallpaper by default" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173114
<ali1234> i guess so, yeah
<brainwash_> I think it needs to be marked as "won't fix"
<brainwash_> or is "invalid" correct?
<ali1234> won't fix
<brainwash_> knome: ^
<brainwash_> generally I feel like "we" could do some clean up on launchpad (xubuntu related reports)
<Unit193> I'm using it at least, but didn't really have much to transition.  Seems like upgraders might lose standard bookmarks if they created any, but that's going to happen either way.
<brainwash_> knome: and what is the agenda for old bug reports targeting xubuntu/xfce bugs in 11.10 and older?
<brainwash_> should we request the reporter to reevaluate the report or wishlist request?
<brainwash_> the goal would be to reduce the amount of reports, to give feedback and try to resolve pending issues
<ali1234> Unit193: the problem with bookmarks is that gtk will migrate them anyway and probably already has if you're on saucy
<Unit193> ali1234: Thanks for the patches too.
<ali1234> did you see them on the mailing list?
<ali1234> i have a couple of others which i think are more important, as they fix papercut-type bugs
<Unit193> I think you poked about them as well, but yes, I check archives every so often.
<ali1234> http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce4-dev/2014-January/030606.html
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<bluesabre> nearly done with catfish-1.0, if anybody wants to do some pre-release testing... bzr pull lp:catfish-search
<bluesabre> also, translators? https://translations.launchpad.net/catfish-search
<bluesabre> feedback on the refreshed look? http://imagebin.org/290460
<brainwash_> bluesabre: looks nice and clean, almost like a file manager
<ali1234> a bit too much like a file manager
<ali1234> could be confusing. the filetypes thing looks like the bookmarks list
<bluesabre> usually, the sidebar is not shown unless activated from the menu button
<bluesabre> so, most users don't end up seeing it
<Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/k9mGqp2V3nXff0mRGE4q :P
<Unit193> Using the gettext tools, you don't lose (all) the translations when moving the content to settings-preferences.xml
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, yay for new catfish
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: :)
<bluesabre> I'll be releasing it some time today
<Noskcaj> I made a mess of the mugshot upload though, it got removed from NEW, but should be into debian later this week
<bluesabre> hopefully before the 6th
<brainwash_> feature freeze?
<bluesabre> debian import freeze
<brainwash_> does not affect sync or?
<bluesabre> it affects automatic sync
<bluesabre> so, saves us the trouble of packaging for ubuntu
<brainwash_> ok, so things start to get serious
<brainwash_> final release soon :)
<brainwash_> do you think that you can get bug 1273896 solved in time?
<ubottu> bug 1273896 in Mugshot "Add accountsservice support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273896
<bluesabre> I'll have a look at that today or tomorrow
<brainwash_> currently my brain is washed from reading all the Xfce source code
<bluesabre> sounds dangerous
<Noskcaj> So in the next few days i need to: update catfish, finish uploading mugshot, get a sponsor for at least gambc and xsane, finish packaging gnome-photos and -weather
<bluesabre> sounds like a busy time
<brainwash_> https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/gnome-system-tools/sudo-group
<Noskcaj> yeah, at least my school laptop comes back today
<bluesabre> I'm going to be pretty tied up this week, we have a new potential client visiting this week
<brainwash_> I'll need to test my changes first before requesting a merge
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, that's usually a good idea
<brainwash_> it is
<brainwash_> btw I cannot rebuild your xfce4-panel 4.11 package
<brainwash_> I don't have the log right now, but it was complaining about gtk-doc
<Noskcaj> the gtk3 indicator stuff is a mess. Hopefully we get some full releases soon
<brainwash_> more delay =S
<brainwash_> but it seems to work fine now, mostly
<brainwash_> 1 transparency issue unsolved yet
<Noskcaj> I'd be happy to put in the stuff as soon as it's released, since we've tested it well. But git snapshots of such a big package in an LTS is something that worries me
<brainwash_> we could backport the needed patches
<brainwash_> that's an ugly solution too
<Unit193> Old stuff = broken and hardly standing on one leg.  New stuff = git snapshots which normally isn't great to ship, but may be the lesser evil.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, good point
<brainwash_> but will trusty be stuck with xfce "4.11" for the whole cycle?
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, I plan to get a lot of stuff into backports
<Noskcaj> once 4.12 drops
<brainwash_> that's great
<Unit193> apt-cache policy  will show you backports enabled, but pinned lower than the rest.
<brainwash_> too bad that Xfce is moving forward so slowly despite being so popular
<Noskcaj> yeah
<Noskcaj> fyi: A new debian update of thunar-volman just got uploaded
<Noskcaj> autoreconf + drop chrpath
<ochosi> evening everyone
<Noskcaj> hey ochosi 
<brainwash_> hello ochosi 
<Unit193> ochosi: Howdy.
<Unit193> ochosi: Waiting on k n om e for the resizes?
<ochosi> Unit193: either that or i'll do it myself
<ochosi> i actually asked him about the resolution we wanna use
<ochosi> cause one of the contributors pointed out that our resolution is too low for e.g. macbook pro retina
<ochosi> bluesabre: what resolution do you have on your laptop?
<knome> Unit193, nice
<bluesabre> ochosi: 1080p
<ochosi> 1920x1080?
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> ochosi, boo :)
<ochosi> hm, that's still comparably "low"
<knome> ochosi, so...
<knome> ochosi, all the rest of the wallpapers are 2560x* except solitude
<knome> ochosi, i have no problem cutting it, just tell me which direction
<ochosi> that's a bit too much like doing it myself :>
<ali1234> i need 3200x1200 wallpapers ... i assume that's what you're talking about
<knome> ali1234, for multimonitor?
<ali1234> yeah
<knome> ali1234, get lost. that's irrealistic.
<knome> :)
<knome> we're not going to have that.
<ochosi> dunno, theoretically we could cut them that way
<ochosi> but it would make them look really different
<ochosi> creating multi-monitor versions in a separate package would be a solution, if someone agrees to do the packaging work
<ochosi> (i'd have to ask the authors for their permission though)
<ali1234> might as well just go straight to WHXGA
<knome> ali1234, the sources for all the wallpapers aren't that big
<ochosi> we can rethink the sizes for the next contest
<knome> ali1234, but seriously, you should have brought this up when we created the guidelines for the contest
<knome> this is the wrong time
<Unit193> So yeah, it looks like if we manually update them rather than letting LP do it we can keep the strings?
<knome> i guess.
<Unit193> If you want to do that, it's pretty simple.  If you want to let LP and hope for the best that works as well.  (Or, if you for some reason want me to do it and you merge. ;P )
<knome> Unit193, last one sounds good
<Unit193> >_>
<ochosi> ali1234: btw, you can use traslasierra nicely on two monitors, have tested it on 3840x1200 (just use it on each display separately)
<Unit193> Done.
<ElderDryas> I've been having problems installing 14.04A1/2 and dailies since A2.  As far back as 13.04, I would get a notification bubble at the end of the install process stating that space on /home was getting low (~140GB partition).  On the 14.04 installations, this bubble would popup early on in the process and just a bit later the install would stop (saying it was out of space). Xubuntu is the only distro that this happens on (not with Fedora, LM,
<ElderDryas>  SolydX, Slackware and Salix). The end result is that I can no longer install Xubuntu. Is this a known problem, (I can't find any mention of it)?
<knome> haven't heard of it
<holstein> ElderDryas: do the stable releases install?
<ElderDryas> 13.10 does, with the notification bubble comming at the end of the process, but intalling
<ElderDryas> Quite literally the end, I hit ignore and the install process finishes imediately.
<ElderDryas> Just a thought, is "/home"  on the USB stick or the hdd ?
<holstein> ElderDryas: on any drive? in any system? all systems of yours?
<ElderDryas> I have one computer :(
<holstein> ElderDryas: where did you put /home?
<ElderDryas> I have used the same setup since 8.04, / = 8GB, swap =2GB, and home the rest ~140GB
<ElderDryas> holstein: one hdd, partitioned as noted above.
<ElderDryas> in that order, sda1 = / sda2=swap sda3 = /home
<holstein> ElderDryas: you can try using the default setup.. let the installer partition
<ElderDryas> why?
<holstein> ElderDryas: you dont have to.. im just the kind of guy who tries things, and sees what seems to be causing issues
<ElderDryas> Sorry, didn't mean to be rude...the default setup doesn't set up a seperate home, which makes re-installs not fun :)
<holstein> ElderDryas: im not suggesting trying it "for fun"
<holstein> ElderDryas: how about this.. in VM.. can you recreate that error in virtualbox? you can mess about there and not "break" your setup
<ElderDryas> Ok, thanks.
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi, hello
<ochosi> knome, Unit193: we're getting the 2560x1600px version of bubbles hopefully tomorrow btw
<ochosi> (currently it's x1440)
<Unit193> Ah, nice.
<ochosi> sergio-br2: what's the status of your merge-request?
<knome> ochosi, okat.
<knome> okay too..
<ochosi> sergio-br2: did you resolve all the things we discussed last time? i'd like to do a release soon, and it'd be nice to include your 96px work
<sergio-br2> hum, not yet
<sergio-br2> i fixed calculator icon, in 96 and 128
<sergio-br2> and others things
<sergio-br2> do you have a date for this release?
<ochosi> well, i can wait a bit longer
<ochosi> but i'd like to get it done this week to the latest
<sergio-br2> hum, ok
<ochosi> all the places/ stuff would be nice to have ready
<ochosi> (if you can manage)
<ochosi> otherwise we can also push a work-in-progress
<sergio-br2> all the places? Is 96 px folder icon good?
<ochosi> yup, as far as i can tell it looks good
<sergio-br2> ok, then i will start the others folders
<ochosi> great, thanks
<sergio-br2> at least, 96 px folders maybe will be good to merge. Mime types i don't know... there is a lot of icons...
<ochosi> yeah i know
<ochosi> well even a work-in-progress of those is ok
<sergio-br2> ok
<ochosi> please file a separate/new MR for the places stuff when it's ready
<ochosi> makes it easier to review and merge
<brainwash_> sergio-br2: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10656 is related to your whisker menu bug report "Drag-and-drop xfce panel..."
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10656 in General "Dragging a panel window button turns external panel plugin black" [Normal,New]
<sergio-br2> new MR? you mean new merge request?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: yup
<sergio-br2> ok
<ochosi> ty
<sergio-br2> maybe at tuesday i will finish the revision of this merge request
<ochosi> sounds like a good plan
<sergio-br2> ochosi, you want apps/96 in the same MR of folders/96 ?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: i'd prefer separate merge-requests
<sergio-br2> ah, a MR for each 96 px folder?
<brainwash_> sergio-br2: did you take a look at the linked report? I suggest that you update your whisker menu report, because the issue is not whisker menu specific
<sergio-br2> yeah, i look, and understand now
<brainwash_> strange glitch
<sergio-br2> so, it happens with others plugins?
<brainwash_> only with external panel plugins
<ochosi> sergio-br2: no, just one for everything you add in places/96
<ochosi> sergio-br2: but ideally a separate merge-request for stuff that's in other folders, like apps/96
<sergio-br2> ah, ok
<sergio-br2> is it possible to exclude some commit in the merge request?
<ochosi> one thing you can do is set up a new branch at the state where you last forked
<ochosi> so that you're at the same state as elementary-xfce-master
<ochosi> and then add your 96px folder stuff in one commit, then do a merge request
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-26
<elfy> have we done something with xdg-open or something - hexchat suddenly trying and failing to open urls in a new browser :(
<Unit193> 2015-01-22
<Unit193> What's the session log say?
<elfy> which log?
<Unit193> .cache/upstart/startxfce4.log
<elfy> nothing useful - just a bunch of mousepad stuff
<Unit193> OK.
<elfy> 22nd sounds about right for it changing 
<elfy> bbl
<brainwash> elfy: use exo-open :)
<brainwash> there's bug 1388922
<ubottu> bug 1388922 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "xdg-open doesn't properly detect XFCE DE" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1388922
<brainwash> elfy: xdg-utils package has been updated. now the blanking timeout reset bug should be fixed. please test!
<brainwash> Unit193: any idea how to make debian package a new xdg-utils build?
<brainwash> it seems somewhat stupid to use the current ubuntu package and add all these upstream patches
<brainwash> so, we need something fresh which could be synced from debian
<bluesabre> elfy: did you get a chance to take abiword from -staging for a spin?  If you approve, I'll sync the updated package tonight
<brainwash> bluesabre: can you review https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11293 please? this bug seems to break one of the iso test cases
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11293 in MIME-type editor "MIME type change incorrectly shows as Default" [Minor,New]
<bluesabre> that looks like a good patch
<bluesabre> I'll merge that one in tonight, and add it to the package
<brainwash> thanks :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: good find, I'll also do that tonight
<bluesabre> also, uploaded your screenshooter
<bluesabre> glad I didn't have internet over the weekend to finish my blog post, seems we have plenty more new things landing in xfce-land
<elfy> brainwash: that bug is old - this is new behaviour that'd turned up in the last few days - must have been caused by something 
<elfy> bluesabre: appears to be ok here 
<brainwash> elfy: old but still valid. for example, xdg-screensaver is not able to detect Xfce, so it falls back to "other DE"
<elfy> right - your not understanding what I am saying
<elfy> hexchat opened url's fine
<elfy> something - that is NOT hexchat must have changed
<brainwash> I understand what you are saying
<elfy> then sending me looking at old info isn't helping 
<brainwash> all of the sudden it stopped working
<brainwash> but the linked bug is old
<bluesabre> well, if we just updated the package, and the breakage is new, its an issue with the new package... so what changed that affects xfce and related component detection
<elfy> if suddenly something stops working and there's been no change in that package - the bug is something that has turned up recently - not last November
<elfy> and re parole setting screen blank, that appears sorted :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: did we change something with "Other DE"?  Chances are there was something specific there that made things work a bit better. 
<bluesabre> if you can't find anything, I'll try to find time to diff utopic and vivid versions and see if anything jumps out at me
<elfy> url's from other things like tbird open properly 
<elfy> just fyi
<brainwash> disconnect
<elfy> ?
<elfy> though generally I feel like that - not sure it's going to help with this :)
<elfy> this isn't something that's happened today - but daily for a few days - and I've been disconnected from here in between times
<brainwash> I missed the previous message(s)
<brainwash> before "just fyi"
<elfy> not sure when I first noticed - possibly Friday, more likely Saturday
<brainwash> the xdg-utils package was indeed updated, but no one touched the xdg-open part
<brainwash> elfy: a simple test would be to execute xdg-open manually, like "xdg-open <url>"
<elfy> well that works fine - didn't think it wouldn't 
<elfy> as I said url's work from tbird - it's seemingly hexchat which is causing me a problem
<brainwash> bug 1408156
<ubottu> bug 1408156 in hexchat (Ubuntu) "links on chat contained on full quotes fail to open" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1408156
<elfy> brainwash: again - old 
<brainwash> hmm yeah
<elfy> if there's a bug from a day or two ago - then I'd be happy - but this has JUST started here - it was fine :)
<brainwash> sadly there is none
<elfy> anyway - bbl - just my cuppa break :)
<brainwash> bye
<elfy> brainwash: well I'm not sad so much as this has obviously been broken for me really recently - so should be able to track it down 
<elfy> at least hopefully :D
<brainwash> elfy: just tested it myself, clicking some URL in the chat window or passing it to /url just opens an empty firefox window
<brainwash> however, it works fine when running the unity session
<brainwash> and xdg-open is not involved at all
<elfy> brainwash: so what is involved then - because it's obviously not just a hexchat issue
<elfy> thanks for looking too :)
<brainwash> elfy: not just?
<brainwash> I'd assume that hexchat is doing something weird
<elfy> yea - how can it be just hexchat - it was working fine previously and hexchat hasn't had an update 
<brainwash> hexchat is our only hint
<elfy> not quite :)
<elfy> it was working fine last week is another one ;)
<brainwash> ah, yeah
<elfy> believe me I would have said something before :)
<brainwash> did we change any environmental vars?
<elfy> I'm constantly clicking links in this channel :D
<brainwash> well.... apt does some logging
<brainwash> you will have to check which packages have been updated
<elfy> last changelog for hexchat in vivid - 16 Nov 
<brainwash> yes, I mean what has been updated last week
<elfy> yea - was just going for easier options first 
<elfy> yep I realise that brainwash :)
<brainwash> my test system runs several DEs, so it could take some time find any hints
<brainwash> tons of packages are updated on a regular basis
<elfy> I'll get some idea of what's been updated here last week first
<brainwash> great :)
<elfy> started this morning with what I did - just in case someone like Unit193 or bluesabre had an idea of a likely candidate
<brainwash> elfy: exp-open <url>  just opens a firefox window too
<brainwash> ^ exo-open
<elfy> just started xchat - opens a url properly
<brainwash> I changed my browser and it works now in hexchat and with exo-open
<brainwash> did you update firefox to version 36 (-proposed)?
<elfy> yea 
<brainwash> same
<elfy> I was just pondering that actually
<brainwash> so something changed in firefox
<elfy> I'll just purge that 
<elfy> yep
<elfy> that's the issue \o/
<elfy> just came across it in the list I'm fiddling with :)
<elfy> I just need to remember to not let it update that then in time
<brainwash> what about filing a report?
<elfy> because as soon as it's noticed that it's from proposed in vivid it'll get ignored 
<elfy> got enough ignored bug reports for now :)
<brainwash> I'd assume that this bug will affect every Xfce user once they update firefox to version 36
<elfy> probably
<brainwash> lets wait and see :D
<elfy> :)
<elfy> at least we know now it's not us :p
<brainwash> not sure if I can recover my firefox bugzilla login details
<brainwash> not sure, xdg-open works fine, but exo-open does not anymore
<brainwash> maybe it has to be fixed in Xfce
<brainwash> one of these rare cases which no one notices until it breaks
<elfy> possible
<elfy> not really sure what to report it against there tbh
<brainwash> firefox + exo (+ hexchat)
<brainwash> just add them all
<elfy> to the comment?
<brainwash> or do you mean reporting on mozilla's bug tracker?
<elfy> not doing that :)
<elfy> I'd have to make an account to do it 
<brainwash> I was thinking about adding all these packages to the lp report
<elfy> what LP report? 
<brainwash> affects list
<brainwash> the report which you gonna create :)
<elfy> I already said I'm not going to create another LP report that'll get ignored ... 
<elfy> I'd report one to xfce exo 
<brainwash> yeah, sounds fine
<brainwash> ideally someone should test with trusty + firefox 36
<brainwash> but no one here runs trusty anymore... or?
<elfy> if as you say it works in unity then frankly most of the time that's all anyone looking at LP cares about 
<elfy> unless it's one of our things and someone here is dealing with it 
<brainwash> I do care about Xfce reports on lp =S
<elfy> we do generally - but as soon as it's got something else like ff then *they* don't 
<brainwash> the mozilla guys are probably not monitoring lp anyway
<elfy> you know exactly what I mean
<brainwash> true
<elfy> I had a bug with indicators - gets changed to pulseaudio - because apparently it wasn't running 
<elfy> yes it was
<elfy> obviously working fine in ubuntu - ignore that then
<elfy> when I can be bothered I'll create ubuntu stick and see if I see the same
<elfy> then critically fail and ubuntu test - people look at those :p
<brainwash> the sad truth
<elfy> so - ff36 isn't released to anything yet
<brainwash> no, unless you use vivid-proposed or some ppa
<elfy> it was working here in ff35 which I'd grabbed from proposed previously
<elfy> then I saw 36 there and grabbed that one :)
<brainwash> kinda strange, why do they skip 35...
<brainwash> for -release
<elfy> it was in proposed for vivid previous to last week
<flexiondotorg_> Evening.
<flexiondotorg_> Anyone here who has a hand in lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings?
<flexiondotorg_> It works a treat in Ubuntu MATE and I'd like to include it.
<flexiondotorg_> I understand it is not uploaded to universe yet.
<flexiondotorg_> Do you need help with finding a sponsor for that or are there other reason why it has not yet been uploaded?
<flexiondotorg_> ali1234, bluesabre ^^^^
<slickymaster> knome, I think that the setence in line 242 of the guide-keeping-safe has to be rephrased
<slickymaster> currently it reads: "Firewalls can be protect you against..."
<slickymaster> that 'be' doesn't make sense and has to be removed
<Unit193> Or add 'used', either way works.
<slickymaster> damn it, I always forget to update the pot files
<slickymaster> always end up pushing it twice, because of that :P
<Unit193> elfy: xfce4-screenshooter in Ubuntu archives has imgur support now, in case you didn't know.
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg_: currently lightdm-gtk-greeter and the related settings are getting some updates in preparation of 1.10/2.0
<bluesabre> we were wanting to get it to debian and then ubuntu, but with debian in freeze, it would go directly to ubuntu
<bluesabre> we hope to have it in universe this cycle
<Unit193> bluesabre: If it doesn't exist in Debian already, then there's not really a problem.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, only a few Xfce applications had that autostart bit, so not sure what the deal is.  xfce4-settings, which builds fine, doesn't.
<brainwash> bluesabre: do we have to ping someone who can accept xubu default settings into trusty-proposed?
<brainwash> and what about utopic? is it first trusty, wait for verification, then utopic?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-27
<bluesabre> brainwash: utopic might not be as necessary, 9-month support cycle and all that, but we can do that
 * bluesabre syncs abiword
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks for the upload!  And in case you didn't see, verve is released too.
<bluesabre> saw that
<bluesabre> haven't acted on it :)
<Unit193> Mhmm, care < 1  for me too. :P
<bluesabre> I'll get to it ... soon
<bluesabre> ... ish
<bluesabre> :D
<astraljava> Hey guys, was there something I needed to do in order to get automatic apport messages to reach launchpad? I have trouble with suspend/resume, and now when I booted this laptop, apport allowed me to send one, but it doesn't appear on LP.
<brainwash> bluesabre: mmh yea, the utopic upload would only fix the one remaining keyboard action (maximize). this prevents any further corruption when a new user account is created
<brainwash> an utopic users creates a new account and upgrades to vivid -> config still corrupted. an updated package for utopic prevents this scenario :)
<brainwash> astraljava: hey there. I don't know how apport handles this, but the experts in #launchpad, #ubuntu-bugs or #ubuntu-devel may know the answer
<brainwash> elfy: can we mark a testcase bug report as dupe? bug 1414395
<ubottu> bug 1414395 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "testcase 1581 "Xfce4 MIME Settings" wrong line" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414395
<brainwash> I just remember that I should not mess around with testcase bug reports
<Unit193> apport (2.15.1-0ubuntu3) vivid; urgency=medium
<Unit193> * etc/apport/crashdb.conf: Enable crash reports on Launchpad for vivid.
<slickymasterWork> yes brainwash, it's a duplicate
<slickymasterWork> do you want me to mark as such, or will you do it?
<brainwash> you can do it :)
<slickymasterWork> done
<astraljava> Thanks guys.
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: thanks
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think you're more familiar with systemd vs upstart than I am... looking at this merge, would we use "init" or "upstart" in utopic/vivd? https://code.launchpad.net/~kalgasnik/lightdm-gtk-greeter/pre2.0-bugfixes/+merge/247653
<Unit193> bluesabre: 'upstart', LP 1398619 has all the data.  But that's an upstart command, and -sysv symlinks 'init' to systemd.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1398619 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "No indicators displayed when systemd-sysv is installed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1398619
<bluesabre> thanks
<Unit193> Sure.
<elfy> brainwash: re testcase bugs - tbh better to mark as invalid :)
<elfy> it's a testcase only when there's something actually wrong with that
<brainwash> makes sense
<elfy> marked it such and commented - but thanks for doing what you did do :)
<brainwash> slickymaster: with the recent talk about security, maybe it could be helpful to install seahorse by default
<brainwash> noticed this report which is filed against elementary os
<brainwash> bug 1415066
<ubottu> bug 1415066 in elementary OS "include seahorse" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1415066
<bluesabre> I think we actually shipped seahorse at one point in the past
<knome> if we ship it, then we should make sure it's (easily) integrated/integratable
<brainwash> it seems to be useful, but it's a gnome app
<brainwash> and we don't like gnome apps, or? :)
<knome> depends if it brings a lot of dependencies
<knome> and with my comment i meant that it should be easy to start using it
<knome> if you need to do a set up even if it's shipped, then it's probably not worth it to ship it
<slickymaster> I don't think that it brings so many dependencies knome 
<brainwash> it makes using the (gnome) keyring more comfortable, but does the average user need that?
<knome> or does the average user use the gnome keyring?
<brainwash> it could help to promote the security aspect
<slickymaster> I'm under the impression that it's still used a lot
<slickymaster> at least by unity users
<Unit193> If it helps, I have it installed.
<bluesabre> hm
<slickymaster> knome, re its dependencies -> libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.12.4), libavahi-client3 (>= 0.6.16), libavahi-common3 (>= 0.6.16), libavahi-glib1 (>= 0.6.16), libc6 (>= 2.7), libgck-1-0 (>= 3.3.90), libgcr-base-3-1 (>= 3.9.1), libgcr-ui-3-1 (>= 3.9.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 (>= 2.22.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.37.3), libgpgme11 (>= 1.2.0), libgtk-3-0 (>= 3.4.0), libldap-2.4-2 (>= 2.4.7), libsecret-1-0 (>= 0.16), libsoup2.4-1 (>= 2.33.92), dconf-gsettings
<bluesabre> apt is using ipv6 addresses
<bluesabre> :o
<slickymaster> Recommends: openssh-client
<brainwash> well, which new dependencies does it add?
<slickymaster> Unit193 would be the one to give you a answer brainwash 
<bluesabre> I think we already have most of those
<slickymaster> or bluesabre :p
<bluesabre> wowza
<bluesabre> it shows chrome passwords
<knome> make a proposal of including it on the mailing list, covering these aspects as well as argumentation why it should be included :)
<knome> then add an item to the meeting agenda
<Unit193> bluesabre: Wow, you get that now?
<knome> that way this discussion will actually go forward
<bluesabre> haven't used seahorse since before google chrome came out
<slickymaster> +1 to that knome 
<bluesabre> its been a while ;)
<slickymaster> I've never used it tbh
<Unit193> bluesabre: Do you use gnome-keyring?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I do at least for unlocking my gpg
<brainwash> I don't know, all I did is noticing the elementary os bug report about including seahorse..
<Unit193> s/at least // and same.
<bluesabre> I think a lot of people do, without knowing, it just does its just in the background
<bluesabre> job
<Unit193> Not for my email though.
<bluesabre> Unit193 does not like to live dangerously
<brainwash> bluesabre: fix the remaining keybind issue in utopic yes or no?
<Unit193> I would, I just haven't set it up.
<knome> did somebody confirm that unattended upgrades are enabled by default for xubuntu ?
<brainwash> bluesabre: if no, then we should mark it as won't fix for utopic
<slickymaster> I think elfy did knome 
<slickymaster> at least I'm under that impression
<knome> iirc he confirmed that we shipped a file that should do that - but that the software and upgrades dialog didn't say we were doing automatic updates
<knome> i'll zsync a vivid image and check myself
<slickymaster> :)
<knome> atually, let's zsync both images
<knome> +c
<knome> heh, if you attach an xfce4-terminal tab, it isn't the same width as the parent
<brainwash> isn't xubuntu behaving like normal ubuntu or any other buntu?
<brainwash> regarding updates
<knome> at least ideally and theoretically
<knome> ok ok, i'll zsync a ubuntu image as well
<knome> sigh
<Unit193> Isn't Kubuntu different?
<knome> Unit193, no no, won't take that bait
 * Unit193 snickers.
<slickymaster> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-28
<astraljava> They're all same-same, but different. But still the same!
<elfy> apart from when different-different - maybe the same different then :p
<astraljava> Haha! :D
<knome> elfy, so maybe you noticed my comment on -offtopic or not...
<knome> elfy, anyway, looks like unattended upgrades *aren't* on by default
<knome> elfy, the enabling bit is in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic
<elfy> I didn't - but I've not been taking too much notice of this discussion anyway tbh
<knome> yep
<elfy> I don't like unattended upgrades 
<knome> but they're secure..
<elfy> that means I've got total trust in someone else :p
<knome> i don't like them either
<jhenke_> hi folks!
<knome> hello
<Frostsongr> yo
<jhenke_> elfy the link to the pad you send around via ML is not accessible
<jhenke> user type poll
<knome> which one?
<jhenke> access denied
<knome> jhenke, you need to be in the ubuntu-etherpad team
<jhenke> is that an open team?
<knome> it's moderated, but practically everybody is approved when they ask for approval
<jhenke> okay, good to know, I applied now, the error message though is not really helpful to find that out...
<jhenke> thanks knome 
<knome> i guess not :)
<knome> np
<slickymasterWork> elfy, pleia2, added some possible/eventual additions for both your consideration at the bottom of http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as
<jhenke> by the way, where would you like to have the answer to that pad? in that pad below?
<knome> jhenke, we're not running the survey, we're building it
<knome> jhenke, if you want to participate in the survey, wait for some time longer so we get it out
<jhenke> knome ahh okay, then I misunderstood the mail
<jhenke> sorry
<knome> no problem
<knome> bluesabre, ok, fair enough, just wondering where we are with that (re: mugshot discussion at -ot)
<bluesabre> so far, basically nowhere (but will be fixed soon)
<Unit193> â¢
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> brainwash: xubuntu-default-settings 14.10.12 pushed... waiting for approval/release into -proposed
<bluesabre> the imgur support is niiiice
<bluesabre> firefox 36 being unable to open links is duuuumb :P
<bluesabre> it's hard to be productive in the morning :(
<Unit193> Imgur won't help there..
<brainwash> bluesabre: that's great. hopefully it will be accepted without the need to ping someone :)
<bluesabre> heh
<bluesabre> I'll start the pinging when I get home tonight
<brainwash> bluesabre: ah, don't forget about my xfce4-settings patch for the mime editor
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> can you link that again?
<brainwash> bug 1391184
<ubottu> bug 1391184 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "MIME type change incorrectly shows as Default" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1391184
<brainwash> applying the patch upstream is the important part, not sure if you need to package it
<brainwash> there are plans to release xfce4-settings 4.11.4 somewhat soon, or?
<bluesabre> I'd need to see what has landed since the last release, and what open bugs there are.  I can plan to do a new release soon though
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&list_id=20846&product=Xfce4-settings&query_format=advanced&resolution=---
<bluesabre> :'(
<bluesabre> probably a lot of cleanup needed there
<bluesabre> will work on that this weekend
<bluesabre> anyhoo, time for work, bbl
<knome> elfy, ping me when you're around (cue: wiki css)
<elfy> knome: ok 
<elfy> that's not a ping though - just wandered home for a cuppa ...
<knome> heh :)
<elfy> slickymasterWork: thanks - had a quick look, made a quick comment 
<elfy> pleia2: assuming that com32 error doesn't get sorted by next week, http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-usb
<slickymasterWork> ok elfy, got it
<ochosi> humm humm, i guess my remote login went down while i was away, so if any of you said something to me during the last few days, you might have to repeat it...
<slickymasterWork> lol ochosi, feeling like Calimero ;)
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: you mean you're wearing a white egg-shell?
<elfy> ochosi: welcome back :)
<elfy> luckily all I said is best not read or repeated :p
<elfy> knome: I can now back back 
<ochosi> elfy: thanks :)
<slickymasterWork> hehe
<knome> ochosi, here neither
<slickymasterWork> elfy, regarding your comments on http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as, please feel free to just use my suggestions if you and pleia2 think they fit the survey purpose 
<knome> 19:41  brainwash: ochosi: bad news, xdg-screensaver is broken in vivid
<ochosi> oh, that doesn't sound good
<ochosi> what's broken exactly?
<ochosi> brainwash: ^
<elfy> slickymasterWork: understand that :)
<slickymasterWork> :)
<knome> 19:41  brainwash: ochosi: bad news, xdg-screensaver is broken in vivid
<knome> 19:41  brainwash: not my part, but the DE detection
<knome> 19:47  brainwash: somehow caused by dropping the obsolete upstream patch
<knome> ochosi, ^ context for you sir
<ochosi> ah context. thanks
<knome> elfy, not on my desktop so can't show you what i wanted, but i'll keep pinging you
<ochosi> hmm, lengthy games discussion
<knome> yes...
<knome> very
<elfy> knome: ok
<ochosi> do we have some writeup of how costly shipping the games actually is?
<knome> comments include "add steam with a few gqmes"
<elfy> ochosi: yea - which so good imo
<slickymasterWork> it's our best seller so far, the games thread
<knome> i think it isn't too costly, but there's the testing burden and stuff
<knome> and do people really play those games?
<elfy> we don't test them knome 
<ochosi> well, that is really difficult/impossible to assess
<knome> isn't it a bit 90ish to play minesweeper when linux installs? (:
<knome> elfy, we *could* :)
<elfy> right 
<ochosi> yeah, but the point was we don't
<elfy> so I'll take that with a pich of salt 
<ochosi> and isn't stuff that is "a bit 90's" totally in again?
<elfy> I play sudoko from time to time 
<elfy> to while away boredom 
<knome> i'm not really sure if a distro will look "cheap and flimsy" if it doesn't ship games...
<elfy> it doesn't hurt to have them
<ochosi> yeah, i'd still try to supply some facts about the costliness of having the games
<elfy> why?
<knome> no, but that argument isn't valid either
<ochosi> just to get some grounding for why we would want them removed
<ochosi> (or wouldn't)
<elfy> ochosi: it was just a throw away comment from me
<knome> if nobody else does it, i'll do a brief summary of the discussion some time
<elfy> which one or two thought was a great idea - notably just knome and slickymasterWork from memory
<slickymasterWork> right, I was one
<slickymasterWork> and I stand by it
<knome> i don't think we need the games and are probably the one to suggest removing them first
<elfy> frankly I think that giving people abiword and gnumeric is a bigger issue than a couple of small games 
<ochosi> yeah, those two are mostly crappy
<ochosi> i still agree on that
<knome> elfy, that's related, but i don't want to mess up the thread with libreoffice stuff..
<elfy> knome: good - pleia2 is supposed to be doing a seperate one for that :)
<knome> yep...
<knome> uh oh already :)
<ochosi> yeah, that thread...
<ochosi> i'm already afraid of it
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<elfy> don't see why - just do it and get it over with :)
<knome> "do it", you mean install libreoffice by default?
<knome> because i can't see many opinions against that on the mailing list tbh
<knome> (that doesn't mean it's the (only) correct solution)
<ochosi> again, assessing the facts would be good (how big would the iso become exactly?)
<knome> maybe Unit193 can brew one
<ochosi> yeah, that would be nice
<knome> that would give us a real-world number versus some hypothetical one
<elfy> when the time comes it depends on what we actually go with - just calc and writer would be the obvious thing as direct replacements rather than the whole thing like ubuntu 
<knome> elfy, i'm sure people will vouch for impress too, and if we include LO stuff, i wouldn't have many arguments against throwing it in as well
<knome> and at that point, it's probably not a *huge* thing to pull in either
<elfy> Need to get 4,754 kB of archives.
<elfy> After this operation, 18.8 MB of additional disk space will be used.
<elfy> for installing impress ^^
<elfy> Need to get 56.3 MB of archives.
<elfy> After this operation, 119 MB of additional disk space will be used.
<elfy> for installing all of the bits of LO I don't have 
<knome> we probably don't want base
<knome> and i don't know about draw either..
<knome> (or if we add that, drop GIMP!!)
<knome> :P
<elfy> exactly
<knome> (even if it isn't a replacement...)
<knome> wow, something weird happened
<knome> got analog noise from hdmi
<elfy> so you scared unit off then 
<elfy> bad knome :p
<knome> yes...
<knome> ;)
<brainwash> ochosi: I've already updated the broken patch in xdg-utils and a new version has been uploaded. However, I did not file any SRU yet, because I want to test a patch for proper DE detection first
<ochosi> ah good
<ochosi> thanks for that
 * ochosi is still catching up
<brainwash> ochosi: the xdg- apps don't seem to detect Xfce, so xdg-screensaver falls back to "other/none DE"
<ochosi> could be that that already was the case before
<ochosi> or did you notice some real breakage in the script wrt that?
<brainwash> it does not break anything in xdg-screensaver, because if no known screensaver is detected, it will control the X11 screensaver in both cases (Xfce or no DE)
<brainwash> but still... it should detect Xfce properly
<brainwash> upstream does
<brainwash> ochosi: oh, you should read the last comment in the xfpm lp report
<brainwash> well, basically we are waiting for cavalier to come up with a solution :D
<ochosi> brainwash: right, that sounds like i actually don't have to read it then
<brainwash> always helps to read the details
<knome> unless you're the project lead and just want to know the overview and that it's being handled
<ochosi> yup ^
<brainwash> but you are involved with xfpm and light-locker =S
<knome> what in xubuntu isn't he involved with?
<brainwash> as direct contributor?
<knome> well tbh i don't think he would be a direct contributor to the projects you mentioned either if he didn't have to
<ochosi> brainwash: i still can't look at each bug individually all the time. so when others like you and cavalier are looking into it already, i'm knocking it down on my priority list
<knome> brainwash, you know.. he trusts you to handle it, be worthy of the trust :)
<knome> (and i have no doubts you wouldn't... but take it as a compliment that he's not looking into it)
<brainwash> I understand, maybe I'm just overhyping this issue
<knome> probably... and if it doesn't work as expected, there's still plenty of time for other people to look at it :)
<knome> we haven't even put out a single alpha/beta image
<elfy> take the trust and use it to you advantage :)
<elfy> d'oh - said that out loud :p
<ochosi> hm, weather plugin not working for anyone else too?
<ochosi> hm weird, works again after resetting the location
<ochosi> hmpf, that remote login really goes for reboots a lot lately...
<ochosi> anyway, i'm off again for now, hf everyone
<elfy> cya :)
<knome> pleia2 dropped the bomb! run! evacuate!
<pleia2> almost waited until right before airplane ;)
<pleia2> (airplane is my tomorrow morning)
<knome> that would have been sneaky.
<knome> pleia2, reasons like xubuntu will look cheap and flimsy if no games are shipped?
 * knome shakes his head
<pleia2> and newcomers look for something familiar
<pleia2> I get that, I've seen it
<knome> yeah i can agree and empathize with *that*
<knome> but not that an OS is cheap or flimsy if it doesn't have a default game...
<knome> if we want to ship a game by default, ship openttd >:)
<elfy> one person's opinion of that doesn't cheapen the whole of the discussion
<Unit193> lbreakout2.
<knome> elfy, no.
<Unit193> Also, isn't there a mute button for the list?  I think I'm going to need a mute button!
<elfy> which isn't about changing what we ship - but whether we do or don't
<knome> Unit193, a tetris isn't a bad idea
<knome> Unit193, find the unsubscribe button :P
<knome> what about quadrapassel?
<knome> Unit193, re: discussion before, do you think you could craft an ISO with abiword an gnumeric dropped and lo-writer and -calc added?
<knome> Unit193, just to get a real number for the ISO size
<knome> and if it isn't too much, do one more with -impress installed as well
<Unit193> knome: Thought I did that already once.  I'd suppose so, but it'd be a (close) estimate still since it's removing and adding rather than doing an exact build how they would.
<knome> Unit193, close estimate is better than a random guesstimate
<knome> i got to say, having -core ready for people who want a less complex system makes me less worried about including libreoffice stuff
<knome> but i can't help that i'm starting to think a core ISO would be nice too
 * Unit193 calls not it.
 * elfy calls that's a decision for XPL :p
<knome> heyy... i'm not proposing anything
<knome> :P
<knome> so there is no decision to be made either :)
<Unit193> knome: And by -calc and -writer only, I presume you mean to include -gtk? :P
<knome> Unit193, yes of course.
<knome> Unit193, and recommends :P
<Unit193> Of course!
<knome> ...and if you please would, depends too !
<Unit193> Dang, cought me.
<knome> caught too
<Unit193> Yes, that.
<knome> elfy, let's be *VERY* theoretical now
<knome> elfy, if we had the -core iso, wouldn't installation tests done for that be enough?
<knome> elfy, the main ISO having installation tests maybe now and then (milestones)
<knome> elfy, and package-related testing happening outside that as usual
<knome> elfy, and please, take this very theoretically.... :)
<knome> elfy, eg. still not proposing anything, or thinkin about proposing, just thinking aloud
<knome> (aloud, but with a very quiet whisper)
<knome> (movie reference: gladiator)
<Unit193> Eh, problem with that is you'd not be checking for missing functionality due to missing packages.
<knome> Unit193, but wouldn't that functionality be missing from the packages?
<knome> i mean, core being the "core xubuntu experience"
<knome> i guess that IF we ever did that ^, we'd need some changes in a thought level too..
<elfy> well ... 
<elfy> on a purely theoretical level 
<elfy> why you talk of testing? 
<elfy> it doesn't get done 
<knome> sorry for asking then...
<elfy> but if it DID get done 
<Unit193> knome: I mean like polkit or something mssing
<Unit193> messing up*
<knome> Unit193, mmh. i guess if something is failing in core, then it's a fail currently, and we should make sure that doesn't happen
<elfy> then I would say that we'd need it to be set up like everything is currently for not -core
<elfy> shouldn't - assuming a level playing field - be hard to accomplish
<knome> yep
<Unit193> Or just keep it at milestone, and keep Xubuntu Desktop as the flagship and Core as the redheaded stepchild...
<knome> one of the benefits of that would be a smaller ISO to test with
<knome> Unit193, sure ;)
<elfy> Unit193: yea - that's a possibility
<elfy> on the other hand
<Unit193> Speaking of which, wanted that new test done about now, elfy?
<elfy> assuming current interest in testing - which we have to for the time being - that put's a lot of pressure on testing in 2 days
<knome> mhm
<elfy> yea - I did make a start on the 64 bit one then I wandered off playing with image testing for pleia2 
<elfy> bad timing :D
<elfy> knome: I'd rather not have to make that assumption - but it does need to be taken into account :)
<Unit193> I: Xubuntu LibreOffice
<elfy> taps desk with fingers waiting for the punchline ... 
<Unit193> elfy: I was going to try and break something before the next -core install, but not sure how. :P
<knome> Unit193, sudo apt-get purge *udev*
<Unit193> knome: Well it pulls in more than you'd like.
<knome> Unit193, of course.
<Unit193> 958M vivid-desktop-i386.iso
<Unit193> 1.1G xubuntu-15.04-lo-i386.iso
<knome> that's... huh
<knome> over 1G :P
<knome> out of curiosity, how much is gimp?
<Unit193> libreoffice-base-core 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
<Unit193> libreoffice-calc 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
<Unit193> libreoffice-common 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
<Unit193> libreoffice-core 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
<Unit193> libreoffice-gtk 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
<Unit193> libreoffice-math 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
<Unit193> libreoffice-style-galaxy 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
<Unit193> libreoffice-style-human 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
<Unit193> libreoffice-writer 1:4.3.3-0ubuntu3
<Unit193> Would have to use clever blacklisting to get it right.
<Unit193> And even then, blacklisting the two would only shave off ~3M.
<Unit193> But, https://unit193.net/dump/xubuntu-15.04-lo-i386.iso (has md5sum and zsync too)
<brainwash> bluesabre: trusty package does not include the updated keybind xml from vivid, commit http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/482 is missing
<Unit193> And talking about impress, that has gstreamer backends to install and generally drags in -draw, pdfimport, and a couple libs, sooo...
<elfy> knome: is there some actually important reason for being less than 1Gb
<Unit193> elfy: That's our limit, we set it a few cycles back.
<elfy> and?
<elfy> we did other things then too - we used to install xchat because too ;)
<Unit193> And nothing, that's the current limit.
<knome> elfy, it's one of the "magic numbers", if we go over that, we rule out a set of USB sticks
<Unit193> I'd personally like to keep it small, but.. :/
<knome> nothing more than that, but it's something to keep in mnid
<knome> *mind too
<knome> at the least, i would i'd want a team vote on crossing over that line
<knome> err, -i'd :)
<elfy> knome: well yea - but if we went to 2 we'd rule out more - I don't think that should be a particularly important consideration any longer
<Unit193> :/
<elfy> especially if the consideration random small USB's that people pick up from here and there for free :)
<elfy> if it's that important make it small enough for CD's so people that haven't caught up with DVD's are ok again :)
<knome> i don't think there is any way to make xubuntu fit a CD again
 * Unit193 could do it.
<knome> but now that i said that, i'm sure Unit193 will prove me wrong
<knome> yeah.
<elfy> heh
<elfy> can you even buy 1Gb sticks still - from somewhere other than a dodgy e-bay seller ... 
<Unit193> Pretty sure.
<knome> or existing :)
<elfy> just think that worrying about 1Gb or less shouldn't be an over-riding consideration
<elfy> anymore - it's almost closer to 2020 than 2010 now :)
<Unit193> Not that I should complain too much, I've got some work to do, getting my respin under 1Gb. :/
<elfy> wandering off now - night all :)
<Unit193> G'night!
<knome> nighty elfy!
<bluesabre> brainwash: *facepalm*
<bluesabre> bbiab
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-29
<elfy> morning 
<knome> morning elfy 
<knome> elfy, let's go through the poll pad once you've "got" "feedback" from the list
<elfy> knome: yep
<knome> elfy, i mean i think it's obvious that i've given my feedback in the form of contributing to the pad... and if nobody has more comments, let's do some of it
<elfy> yea :)
<knome> elfy, there are currently 3 different questions/ways of asking there, we might want to cut down to two
<elfy> btw the old stuff is still there I saved versions
<elfy> not got time to talk now - just about to toddle of to work
<knome> good
<knome> same here
<knome> well except i'm not wandering to work next..
<elfy> perhaps later this evening - pleia2 might be about too 
<elfy> heh - yea :)
<knome> maybe, let's see how my schedule turns out
<ochosi> morning
<ochosi> i'm sorta surprised at how civilised the discussions on the ml are going
<knome> why on earth do i not have the permissions to create files on a SD card i just formatted
<brainwash> bluesabre: heh, I was pretty sure that you understood what I meant (-> backport keybind xml from vivid to trusty/utopic)
<brainwash> bluesabre: the branches were not created before the package was accepted into proposed, right?
<brainwash> does the new abiword version 3.0.1 have a new feature? it autostarts after login..
<brainwash> same in for the guest session
<brainwash> the guest session is also missing whisker menu
<brainwash> what is going on? =S
<bluesabre> brainwash: did you hit "Save Session" on your logout window?  abiword does not install into autostart
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> the guest session should even start a clean session
<bluesabre> thats true
<bluesabre> not sure whats going on for you there
<bluesabre> sounds like maybe your xdg-xubuntu folders got messed up
<brainwash> what about the whiskermenu entry? is it missing for you?
<brainwash> in the guest session I mean
<bluesabre> nope
<brainwash> checked the logs and xfce4-session does not seem to start abiword
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<brainwash> up-to-date + -proposed?
<brainwash> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey brainwash 
<bluesabre> brainwash: you know its a bad idea to actually use -proposed as a daily driver
<brainwash> it is a test system
<bluesabre> -proposed is a broken system... packages get rejected from -proposed before landing in the archive
<bluesabre> heya ochosi
<bluesabre> up to date and not proposed for me
<ochosi> bluesabre: did i miss anything since i took off?
<bluesabre> merged a greeter fixes branch...
<ochosi> ah nicxe
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> so is anything missing for 2.0?
<bluesabre> not sure, but probably not
 * bluesabre wishes he could get andrew p. to join irc
<bluesabre> also, I'm planning on trying to clean up https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&list_id=20846&product=Xfce4-settings&query_format=advanced&resolution=--- this weekend
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> that looks like work
<ochosi> we seem to have two display dialog related bugs that people seem to encounter time and again, there is one related to displayport (which i can't test) and the other related to the minimal dialog popping up all the time
<bluesabre> yeah, for the tv stuff, I think its bad drivers... I found a bug in there and fixed it, but it still won't work for them unless the display settings just completely forget about what was attached previously
<ochosi> hm, right
<ochosi> yeah, that's possible
<ochosi> btw, are you ok with wontfixing this one? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11132
<bluesabre> and thats what makes the mini settings pop up indefinitely
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11132 in Display Settings "Please make it possible to set extra spacing between two screens" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> yeah, dead space between the two screens makes it possible to lose things... so thats kind of dumb
<ochosi> same as that: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10889
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10889 in Settings Manager "Missing Apply-, Ok-, and Cancel-Button for Settings" [Enhancement,New]
<ochosi> (yeah, it's totally dumb...)
<bluesabre> yup, wontfix that either
<bluesabre> apply buttons are old-school, we only use them when needed (display settings)
<bluesabre> ochosi: will you be around this weekend?
<ochosi> yup, more or less
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> maybe we can do a -settings sprint then and wipe some things out :)
<ochosi> alrighty :)
<ochosi> would make sense to clean up there some mor
<ochosi> e
<brainwash> we got informed by errors.ubuntu.com
<brainwash> bug 1415683
<ubottu> bug 1415683 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/xfdesktop:11:xfdesktop_file_icon_manager_metadata_changed:ffi_call_SYSV:ffi_call:g_cclosure_marshal_generic_va:_g_closure_invoke_va" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1415683
<bluesabre> oh hey
<bluesabre> I was just about to mention that
<bluesabre> in my paste buffer even
<brainwash> :D
<bluesabre> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/7f085ba4e6c070ba9abb8d336c3f5c91007c09ac
<brainwash> what does it say?
<bluesabre> its just the stack trace
<bluesabre> whos the person behind xfdesktop?
<bluesabre> they can probably read it a bit easier
<brainwash> eric
<brainwash> which ubuntu releases?
<bluesabre> eric_the_idiot: see above ^
<bluesabre> 14.04, 14.10, 15.04
<brainwash> ok
<bluesabre> they stopped seeding it to trusty because of that issue
<brainwash> you cannot read anything unless you have been approved to do so
<bluesabre> you just have to sign up
<bluesabre> and say "I work on xubuntu bugs"
<brainwash> I know
<brainwash> well, eric will have to
<brainwash> or you share the stacktrace
<bluesabre> eric_the_idiot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9935131/
<bluesabre> let me know if I can help there
<brainwash> bluesabre: will you prepare a new xubuntu-default-settings build for trusty-proposed?
<bluesabre> yeah... is the utopic one ok?
<brainwash> yes, the utopic one should be fine
<brainwash> I'll inform the people then, so that they wait for the proper build for trusty and don't test yet
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> brainwash: does this one need to have all the "Primary" keys instead of "Control"?
<brainwash> bluesabre: yes
<bluesabre> k
<brainwash> I've created the branch with this commit before the final release of trusty.. but it did not get merged right away
<brainwash> there are no keybind reassignments or new keybinds across trusty/vivid/utopic, so these releases should ship an identical keybind xml
<brainwash> oh lol.. I launch the lubuntu session and abiword is started too
<bluesabre> sudo updatedb; locate abiword.desktop
<brainwash> there is nothing in .config/autostart
<bluesabre> did locate find anything?
<bluesabre> also, should there be any changes except to etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml ?
<brainwash> only to this xml file
<brainwash> locate only lists the normal application desktop file and the app-install one
<bluesabre> not sure what is starting it then
<bluesabre> does the xml portion here seem to be what we're looking for, it really is only the Control > Primary changes
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9935714/
<brainwash> it's not xubuntu specific, so we can ignore it for now
<brainwash> I guess so, you could diff the resulting xml with the vivid one
<brainwash> there should be no difference
<bluesabre> yup, no diff
<brainwash> great
<bluesabre> pushed
<brainwash> thanks
<brainwash> you will ping someone to accept it into -proposed, or? :)
<bluesabre> usually not necessary, but did
<brainwash> I tell firefox to download a file and lock the screen (light-locker). after unlocking I see that firefox stopped the download
<ochosi> well, your seat does become inactive when you lock the screen
<ochosi> so i'm not terribly surprised
<brainwash> I know that
<ochosi> that's why music-playback stops
<brainwash> but light-locker breaks too many use cases
<ochosi> right, so why are you sounding surprised?
<ochosi> just use late-locking
<brainwash> how?
<brainwash> I use the keybind to trigger light-locker
 * ochosi sighs
<ochosi> use xscreensaver then
<ochosi> it's not like anybody is *forced* to use light-locker
<ochosi> that's the beauty of linux, you can un/install packages and modify your setup
<brainwash> exactly, we should revert to xscreensaver until light-locker does not break any of use cases
<ochosi> add it to the agenda and state your case in the next meeting
<brainwash> ok
<knome_web> hullo
<elfy> hello
<slickymasterWork> hey new knome
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<knome_web> are we into the meeting already? :)
<elfy> will be tomorrow :)
<slickymasterWork> isnt' that just tomorrow
<slickymasterWork> ?
<knome_web> oh...
<elfy> :)
<knome_web> really?
<knome_web> haha.
<elfy> yea - really :)
<slickymasterWork> silly new knome
<elfy> would I lie to you ... 
<knome_web> i shall quit then and spend time with other people here...
<elfy> bye :)
<knome_web> elfy: if that earned you a cuppa... yes
<ochosi> hf knome_web 
<knome_web> ta
<knome_web> you too
<slickymasterWork> lol
<elfy> hi slickymasterWork too 
 * knome_web facepalms
<elfy> bad move when all webby - gets stuck everywhere ... 
<brainwash> elfy: do you know why the idea of dropping the games came up?
<brainwash> just read the discussion on the mailing list
<slickymasterWork> brainwash, the idea was originally started by knome and I
<brainwash> after elfy said to drop them?
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> I will have to check the logs
<slickymasterWork> it was after one of this years' firsts meetings
<slickymasterWork> don't recall now which one
<elfy> wasn't too long back 
<elfy> I Think ti came about re one of the games and CSD 
<brainwash> 2015-01-14
<brainwash> [22:48] <brainwash> should gnome-mines be replaced too? I noticed that it uses CSD too now
<brainwash> [22:49] <elfy> I'd lose games completely given the chance
<brainwash> [22:49] <brainwash> you can't do that!
<brainwash> [22:49] <slickymaster> +1 on that
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> changed my mind now 
<brainwash> close the discussion!
<brainwash> :)
<slickymasterWork> let it roll brainwash 
<brainwash> no, let it go, let it go!
<baffledbear> It's interesting to see what people's opinions are on the subject.
<ochosi> as long as they remain on topic, it is
<slickymasterWork> exactly
<baffledbear> True. The ones that are asking for new games to be added are less interesting.
<knome> the discussion about removal of games was one thing that was brought up (into my mind) along with the other removal/replacement discussions about GIMP/LO
<knome> (it isn't like these ideas just popped to our minds 5 minutes before we sent out the mails, they have been discussed for a longer time already)
<ali1234> if CSD are a problem in some gnome app then remember we might be able to do a straight swap for the mate version
<ali1234> calculator springs to mind
<ali1234> i don't think mate forked gnome games
<knome> once the dust has landed on keeping/dropping games, it's time to do a proposal round of new games
<knome> not necessarily on the mailing list though, we already have the data from there..
<elfy> knome: makes some sense
<elfy> ali1234: I have indicator-sound, whatever bug 1411959 was about appears to have done the trick 
<ubottu> bug 1411959 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Hide autostart launcher in Xfce" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1411959
<elfy> Unit193: did the 64 bit core image one - all worked fine for me on vb
<Unit193> elfy: Nothing broken?  Nice.  I'll do 32 then.  Did you by chance grab the package list?
<elfy> nope 
<elfy> that's not actually something I am EVER likely to do by chance :D
<elfy> whatever command I might need isn't one I'd know - quick enough to boot it and see though :)
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/packs I think I had you run that, except rather than using less, pipe to a file (going to compare it to your last one.  Or my last one, whichever.)
<elfy> oh yea - xscreensaver whine pops up - out of date 
<elfy> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9942458/
<elfy> there it is Unit193 
<Unit193> lp 1407119, lp 1406825 it's to be expected.  Ah, great.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1407119 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "Setting splash to False has no effect on outdated-messages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1407119
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1406825 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "xscreensaver complains "This version of xscreensaver is VERY OLD!"" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1406825
<elfy> yea - I did see something beforehand 
<Unit193> Couple of interesting differences..
<brainwash> bluesabre: found the trigger which launches abiword on my system automatically
<brainwash> http://fossies.org/linux/abiword/plugins/collab/backends/telepathy/unix/org.freedesktop.Telepathy.Client.AbiCollab.service.in
<Unit193> So I take it others have it where the indicators mostly work, but with glitches?  Click an indicator to activate the menu, click it again to deactivate or click on another indicator and it will not deactivate.
<ochosi> for me it mostly deactivates when i click another indicator
<ochosi> but it doesn't open that indicator menu upon first click
<pleia2> knome, elfy - fosdeming this weekend, not around much (currently at philadelphia airport, woo)
 * pleia2 brought her xubuntu t-shirt :D
<Unit193> pleia2: Yey!  Have fun!
<pleia2> thanks :)
<knome> pleia2, have fun!
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-30
<brainwash> bluesabre: thunar 1.6.4 installs a pkexec policy file, so we could drop the one from xubuntu-default-settings
<brainwash> dropping it requires some manually changes to the po folder, or?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can you look into maybe getting rid of yelp?  It looks like that'd get rid of gnome-user-guide too.
<bluesabre> brainwash, ochosi: first I've heard of light-locker killing downloads/network conenction
<bluesabre> brainwash: thats interesting... guessing you have telepathy installed (empathy maybe?)
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes, we can drop it now
<brainwash> bluesabre: empathy is installed, well, almost every DE is installed now + tons of extra apps
<bluesabre> Unit193: that would probably be a good effort, I'll also try to look at that this weekend
<brainwash> bluesabre: is dropping the policy file enough? what about the po folder?
<Unit193> bluesabre: A few things recommend it, don't *think* it's needed, and pulls in -guide which is larger.
<bluesabre> brainwash: I'll take a look and determine whats no longer needed, unless you want to and provide a patch/merge
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: I'm not familiar with the po stuff
<bluesabre> brainwash: ok, I'll get it this weekend then
<bluesabre> was only here briefly, gotta run
<brainwash> so, not sure if things are handles automatically
<bluesabre> bbl
<brainwash> ok, thanks and bye
<knome> bluesabre, probably not, especially if the file is changing package that is from another source
<Unit193> breaks/replaces?
<knome> what?
<brainwash> don't our gnome apps need yelp to display the help content?
<brainwash> like... gnome-mines
<Unit193> Ah, that's what it's needed for...
<Unit193> elfy: In case you didn't see it and even wanted to, difference between my install and yours: http://paste.openstack.org/show/DmgdgNNyDPCEDi6VUDhU/
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/OObJ2KnBXP3LAvS1WJbR/ looks good, but we're not smaller, we're larger.. (utopic to vivid manifest.)
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/Zw5aVA0nxOwfyWzwsyXb/ trusty to utopic, fwiw.
<Unit193> So in precise, xfsettingsd still goes zombie, but /usr/bin/xfconfd and /usr/bin/xfsettingsd end up running.
<Unit193> Err, first is /usr/lib/xfcexfconf/xfconfd
<Unit193> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9949033/ see?
<Unit193> No such key 'show-notify-osd-on-scroll' in schema 'com.canonical.indicator.sound' as specified in override file '/usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/20_xubuntu-default-settings.gschema.override'; ignoring override for this key.
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> elfy: what would be your take on my suggestion to hide the launcher? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1396804
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1396804 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Name For Thunar Settings Launcher Is Unclear (thunar-settings.desktop)" [Low,Confirmed]
<elfy> spooky
<ochosi> think people would actually end up missing it?
<elfy> was just reading that :)
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> nice
<elfy> makes sense to me 
<ochosi> at least that was the only option i could come up with that sorta made sense to me...
<elfy> seems like an aberration - nothing else has it's settings populating menu
<Unit193> ochosi: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-sound/trunk.15.04/revision/462.4.2 !
<elfy> does that stop the notification of volume change ?
<ochosi> oha
<ochosi> looks like it
<Unit193> elfy: Notice on upgrades the message I pasted?
<ochosi> or at least it makes it non-optional
<ochosi> i presume that that was changed due to phone stuff
<ochosi> we can ask around though
<elfy> ochosi: left comment in the bug ftr 
<ochosi> commits like these are why i would've wanted to replace the indicators by panel plugins as much as possible
<ochosi> i mean indicator-application usually is just fine, but the dedicated ones like sound or messages
<ochosi> thanks elfy 
<Unit193> !info volumeicon
<ubottu> Package volumeicon does not exist in utopic
<Unit193> !info volumeicon-alsa
<elfy> well - if that's what the update to ind-sound was for just now - no change apparent
<ubottu> volumeicon-alsa (source: volumeicon): systray volume icon for alsa. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.6-2.1 (utopic), package size 31 kB, installed size 181 kB (Only available for linux-any)
<elfy> shame 'info doesn't grab vivid in here
<ochosi> Unit193: i'd rather use something like the xfce4-soundmenu-plugin (if it were improved)
<Unit193> ochosi: (mostly) kidding.
<Unit193> Annnd, yeah.  That'd not be a good replacement, volumeicon would be better even. :P
<Unit193> This'll fix x-d-s: https://paste.unit193.net/?39c42359910c28d4#b5Y7B2+ydhOXrA+HyBSlXHeHCL8I/f+ElxDSvrm3hBA=
<ochosi> right, remember to file the MR then
<Unit193> Any reason not to just push?
<ochosi> oh right, i forgot you have push-rights :D
<ochosi> nah, just go ahead
<elfy> and I'll blame you if the currently working indicator stops :D
<Unit193> :3
<Unit193> Push under ochosi's name, got it.
<elfy> I see you got that right then 
<ochosi> hey Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> hey
<ochosi> how's it going?
<Noskcaj> pretty good. Just getting used to having internet again. Working on a libinput transition
<ochosi> good good :) since you seem to be back from your break, i wanted to follow up on the workitem in the features-blueprint "Evaluate exactly what changes we need for bluez5"
<Noskcaj> I'll check tomorrow, but i think that's "leave it to the bluetooth guys, nothing major breaks for us"
<ochosi> any progress or eta on that one?
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> we still seem to have bluez4 though
<ochosi> in vivid, that is
<ochosi> it seems that the transition is still quite far away, several related workitems are still TODO
<ochosi> so i wonder whether we really have to worry about it too muhc
<ochosi> anyhow, please update the status of that workitem as you go
<ochosi> right now it seems to be INPROGRESS already
<Unit193> If we're set, likely can just ignore it, no?
<ochosi> i'd guess so
<ochosi> i very quickly tested the bluez5 PPA at some point
<ochosi> everything still worked
<ochosi> also, we don't have much bt-specific code in our packages from what i know
<Unit193> xfce4-bluetooth-plugin
<Noskcaj> ochosi, If you have time, could you please look at upstreaming lp:~noskcaj/ubuntu/vivid/xfce4-xkb-plugin/lp-733563 ?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i presume you have tested the patch?
<ochosi> also, if you want "someone from the xubuntu team" to review, you better subscribe us to MRs ;)
<ochosi> and anyway, seb128 is right, a patch of this type and size should really go upstream
<ochosi> frankly, before asking me to look into upstreaming something, could you please check whether the patch still applies on top of git master?
<ochosi> (full disclosure: it doesn't.)
<Unit193> Xfce Bug 8446 already has you as a sub, but that's it. :P
<ubottu> xfce bug 8446 in General "Allow font selection" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8446
<ochosi> well yeah, i reassigned it to the current maintainer of xkb plugin
<ochosi> that patch can't even be applied anymore by hand
<ochosi> some parts of the plugin have obviously changed
<ochosi> bluesabre: ping
<bluesabre> ochosi: pong
<ochosi> hey there
<bluesabre> whats up?
<ochosi> sorry for the lengthy PM
<ochosi> you can actually forget about that
<ochosi> most of it
<ochosi> i found a fix for https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11425
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11425 in General "Subtitle fonts aren't previewed" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> it turned out to be rather trivial, but i'm not sure i'm entirely happy with it
<slickymasterWork> hey bluesabre
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, if you want any specific feedback/output from the installed box please let me know
<bluesabre> ochosi: just caught up... that seems pretty minor tbh
<ochosi> i know it is
<ochosi> the fix is just as minor
<ochosi> i've attached the patch to the bugreport meanwhile
<bluesabre> indeed
<ochosi> there is also an alternative by the way, we can hide the preview-text
<ochosi> you can try that easily with gtk-inspector if you wanna see how it looks
<ochosi> imo it's not as nice
<bluesabre> no preview text is displayed for me
<bluesabre> or in his screenshot
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> so yeah, what i dislike about the patch: it covers up a bug in gtk3(?)
<ochosi> and it's work for translators
<bluesabre> with gtk3, everything is a "feature" - in this case, "minimalism"
<ochosi> although i guess i could look for where the translations for that default value are in gtk3...
<ochosi> anyway, this is why i think it's a bug in gtk3: https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkFontChooser.html#GtkFontChooser--preview-text
<ochosi> (or we implemented the button incorrectly)
<ochosi> on second thought i wonder whether it even makes sense to make it translateable, after all, the main point is it being a pangram
<bluesabre> if we use inspector to set this to true, what happens? https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkFontChooser.html#GtkFontChooser--show-preview-entry
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/uypQnHA.png
<ochosi> that ^
<bluesabre> hm
<ochosi> this is with my patch btw: http://i.imgur.com/LiDGc8Y.png
<ochosi> (and how it is supposed to be)
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> what happens when you set https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkFontChooser.html#GtkFontChooser--preview-text to NULL in the code?
<ochosi> empty string
<ochosi> so that doesn't work
<bluesabre> darn
<bluesabre> it might be a gtk bug, gedit also does not show the preview text
<ochosi> or ubuntu-gtk bug?
<bluesabre> we could ping satya and see if it happens in fedora
<ochosi> or ask the OP what distro he's on
<bluesabre> hes on xubuntu
<bluesabre> he has indicators
<ochosi> or arch :)
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> mint
<ochosi> but yeah, you're right, most likely xubuntu
<bluesabre> nvm
<bluesabre> numix + elementary-xfce + our panel layout lightly tweaked
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> so yeah, dunno, should we patch it up?
<bluesabre> maybe
<bluesabre> we have a few things we can do
<ochosi> we can also just patch it in ubuntu
<bluesabre> might be able to grab gtk source and translations, and pump them into our existing translations to save our trnaslators the trouble and make it work everywhere
<ochosi> yeah, also thought about that
<bluesabre> new network-manager
<bluesabre> interesting
<bluesabre> afraid to reboot
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: will you be around for the meeting today
<bluesabre> ?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> u2?
<bluesabre> I'm going to try to be... will be at work and all that, but I'm going to try to get my talking points down now in case I can't
<ochosi> cool
<brainwash> parole does not call gdk_notify_startup_complete when it's already running
<brainwash> easy fix for the stuck busy cursor
<bluesabre> yup, we either need to do that or set the StartupWMClass
<bluesabre> "If true, it is KNOWN that the application will send a "remove" message when started with the DESKTOP_STARTUP_ID environment variable set. If false, it is KNOWN that the application does not work with startup notification at all (does not shown any window, breaks even when using StartupWMClass, etc.). If absent, a reasonable handling is up to implementations (assuming false, using StartupWMClass, etc.). (See the Startup Notification 
<bluesabre> Protocol Specification for more details)."
<bluesabre> http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s05.html
<brainwash> wall of text
 * bluesabre uses Ctrl-P. It's super effective!
 * elfy will try using Ctrl+P next time he's painting a wall :D
<brainwash> so, you gonna fix that?
<brainwash> I mean, do I have to share a 1-line patch which just adds the gdk_notify_startup_complete call?
<brainwash> but maybe you prefer the 2nd solution:)
<ochosi> what's the argument against attaching it to the bugreport?
<bluesabre> brainwash: I probably will fix it this weekend... the reason I ask for patches isn't because I'm lazy, but rather the list of things to do just keeps growing, a patch or MR lets me easily get around to it and not forget about it
<bluesabre> :D
<brainwash> ok, so I will have to git clone it :D
<bluesabre> or just add a comment on the bug
<brainwash> right, I'll do that
<ochosi> bluesabre: hum, i'm wondering whether we shouldn't head for a new parole stable release soonish, i don't see us getting around to implementing any of the features we thought about any time in the near future
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, that's probably right
<ochosi> brainwash: so wait, how do you test your patch when you haven't cloned git?
<brainwash> it's a trivial fix
<ochosi> bluesabre: and after all, we have enough new features to warrant a new release anyway
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> brainwash: so you haven't tested it?
<bluesabre> anything with the window manager can go from trivial to headache, as I've learned
<brainwash> I will
<bluesabre> knome: +1 on the default image editor conversation. If our needs are to be able to do at least some light editing, but there is not a sufficient (and equally or moreso heavy) alternative, I'd be in favor of keeping gimp
<bluesabre> (though for image viewers, I still like viewnior)
<ochosi> i'm expecting a new ristretto release soonish btw, which means bugfixes
<ochosi> brainwash: have you made any progress on the xdg-screensaver DE detection problem?
<ochosi> might be best to propose another MR with all upstream changes
<ochosi> bbl
<bluesabre> Was going to write on the ML for office applications, but my opinion is not strong enough. I use Google Drive regularly for personal, LO for work. Abiword is unacceptable is you need to open something you didn't write.
<elfy> that one's likely to drag on for ages till just before April 2016 I'd guess :D
<elfy> I'm going to be +1 anything that gets tested somewhere else :p
<bluesabre> Good point
<elfy> I'll certainly not be bringing it up in meeting other than to DONE it :p
<baffledbear> haha. Yea. I also use Google for basically everything. I'm just a fan of not replacing anything with something 10 times the size unless it's absolutely needed.
<elfy> baffledbear: yes 
<elfy> but what we're aiming at doing is setting a sensible default - which is likely to last for a while, so it's not really about personal preferences
<elfy> if it was I'd be voting for all sorts of things
<elfy> I'd want qt so we could have clementine 
<elfy> imagine THAT mailing list thread :D
<elfy> you'd need an index ... 
<baffledbear> haha
<GridCube> P: i was thinking, if we cant justify adding a new runtime for a single app. why dont we ship lots of apps in mono and then we can ship pinta P: but at the same time i though, "dont be silly"
<elfy> !team | 10 minuteish to meeting
<ubottu> 10 minuteish to meeting: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> anyone else seeing bug 1414443 ?
<ubottu> bug 1414443 in mugshot (Ubuntu) "Camera doesn't initialise" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414443
<brainwash> ochosi: there is progress, https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/ubuntu/test
<ochosi> brainwash: bzr branch too?
<brainwash> ochosi: I'll take the debdiff and find someone to sponsor it
<brainwash> ochosi: then I'll try to SRU the whole thing
<ochosi> okeydokey
<elfy> #startmeeting 
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jan 30 15:00:04 2015 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<elfy> !team | so who's about?
<ubottu> so who's about?: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> o/
<elfy> :)
<ganglere> Not a team member, but I'm happy to sit in
<elfy> welcome - it is a community meeting :)
<elfy> #topic Open action items
<ochosi> welcome ganglere 
<knome> o/
<slickymasterWork> o/
<baffledbear> I'll also be sitting in, except for that bit where I'm at a standup
 * knome lies
<ochosi> welcome baffledbear too
<knome> figure out what that implies
<knome> ;)
<elfy> I think pleia2 is away - but I know she did what she was listed as having to do
<slickymasterWork> pants on fire knome?
<elfy> and I did the ones I was going to do 
<ochosi> good good, #done them then
<elfy> #done pleia2 to mail list to kick off discussion about default office applications 
<elfy> #done elfy to mail list about removing games from default install 
<elfy> #done elfy to mail list re user poll 
<elfy> yea - was looking to see if I needed to ochosi :)
<elfy> #topic Team Updates
<knome> #done knome updated the Processes page with up-to-date QA process descriptions
<knome> #done knome designed certificates for the QA incentive programme (and more)
<knome> #info knome worked on the website refresh
<elfy> #info QA has seen a new name floating about on tracker post- QA incentive blog
<elfy> #info not a great deal od testing reported though
<elfy> #undo
<knome> i did one
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<elfy> #info not a great deal of testing reported though
<elfy> knome: I know :)
<knome> and about to do more
<slickymasterWork> #info knome and slickymaster started working on the installer slideshow update
<knome> i have a laptop for testing available now
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1504-slideshow
<knome> ^ that's the drafting pad
<slickymasterWork> :P
<slickymasterWork> knome beat me
<knome> i've also done some PoC things, the branch is at lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/1504-changes
 * ochosi looks at pad
<knome> these include: a "searchable" whiskermenu
<knome> inside the slideshow, that is, with predefined application targets
<slickymasterWork> and some unbelievable features yet to came ;)
<knome> a slide that cycles through wallpapers
<knome> and showing application paths on hover only (to save space)
<ochosi> mhm, sounds nice
<knome> i'll have to update the branch, i've a local copy of the whiskermenu slide done where i've laid out the menu on top of a screenshot
<knome> so it looks better
<knome> and non-case-sensitive search too
<knome> and with icons...
<ochosi> sweet
<elfy> that does all sound rather good :)
<knome> pushed that right now, so if you branch/pull again, you'll see that too
<ochosi> yeah, i'm looking forward to having both an updated website and an updated slideshow
<slickymasterWork> our idea is to somoe how port this interactivity concept also for some other slides
<slickymasterWork> at least Make the desktop your own and Personalize your computer
<ochosi> great
<knome> yep, i think the slideshow has served its purpose well, but otoh, it has been quite boring
<knome> or become that
<ochosi> would you go for a bigger default window size then?
<slickymasterWork> and perhaps join those two making just one out of them
<knome> probably not...
<knome> i'm even thinking smaller to fit all netbook monitors better and such
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether it would be possible (i mean it should be, inside ubiquity's code) to query the size of the screen and just always use 3/4 of it
<ochosi> and then make the slides responsive
<knome> considering the slideshow width is defined in the static CSS file... i really aren't sure of that
<knome> and in a configuration file too, now that i think of it
<knome> [Slideshow]
<knome> width:750
<knome> height:420
<knome> no units
<knome> (not even 193)
<knome> ochosi, you might want to change that color that hurts my eyes on the pad
<ochosi> yeah, i think we'd need some internal changes in ubiquity to make that possible
<knome> yes
<ochosi> i might mention it to xnox though
<knome> sure
<knome> i'd be up for making our slideshow responsive at least
<knome> it doesn't really need much though
<bluesabre> That'd be cool
<bluesabre> Hi all, around very briefly
<bluesabre> (Sorry)
<ochosi> btw, that isn't really a team update, but since that was brought up today (and i followed up on it), there are no plans to remove the notification shown on the scroll-even of indicator-sound (despite that one commit suggesting it). just the configuration option for it will be dropped
<elfy> if you make it smaller to fit netbook monitors isn't it going to end up looking swamped on bigger ones
<elfy> bluesabre: hi - and sorry - I did mean to do this when you're about :( you're up next time though \o/
<knome> elfy, depends if it looks swamped on netbooks :)
<knome> i'm not proposing to do the same amount of information on a smaller size
<knome> just adjust all that and make the slideshow work with less
<knome> (and show more of the information on interaction, if useful)
<elfy> yep
<slickymasterWork> just one thing re the use of wallpapers knome mentioned
<elfy> ochosi: I got that I think a short while ago btw
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, do you think it's possible to coordinate the wallpaper contest calendar deadline with the Documentation String Freeze so the winning wallpapers could be added to the slideshow?
<knome> if we organize a contest, that is
<slickymasterWork> besides serving our purpose it would also serve as a extra reward for the applicants
<slickymasterWork> exactly knome 
<elfy> bit late for this cycle isn't it? 
<knome> ^ and a great way to liven up and make the slideshow look fresh
<knome> elfy, for LTS
<elfy> ok
<knome> probably not going to do a contest on regular releases anyway
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> too much work tbh
<slickymasterWork> yes, with LTS in mind
<ochosi> i mean if somebody else wants to organise it, i won't object
<knome> i might, just for the laughs.
<elfy> anymore updates from anyone? 
<knome> i don't think so
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> let's move forward so we can get stuff discussed today :P
<elfy> moving on then 
<slickymasterWork> nothing from me
<elfy> #topic announcements
<elfy> I've got nothing 
<slickymasterWork> me neither
<elfy> anyone ?
<knome> nope
<ochosi> one more thing
<ochosi> knome: since we're talking team updates, how's it going with the wallpaper? any ETA on that?
<knome> hr hrr
<ochosi> i just noticed that because i was looking at our overall progress and there are some blueprints that are lagging behind
<ochosi> artwork being one of them
<ochosi> well, and website and marketing
<knome> dev wallpaper you'll get before beta 1, final before ui freeze
<ochosi> mkay
<knome> before meaning i will consider that it will take time to land
<knome> and upload and such
<ochosi> i mean tbh it's a bit late already this cycle for it, i also considered postponing it
<knome> dev wall? works for me
<ochosi> but then again, since you've already worked on it and we only need to upload it once...
<knome> i'll let you decide once it's ready
<elfy> b1 is about 2 weeks away
<ochosi> i mean i'd personally install it in a new folder somewhere so we only have to flip a config-switch as soon as we're post-release again
<knome> and re: website/marketing blueprints, there are many things that are almost ready, and that most of those are not related to the release cycle
<knome> meaning it'll be easier to catch up with those once we start hitting freezes that slow down other progress
<ochosi> ok
<knome> it's impossible to estimate it, but it isn't many things i need to do before we can ask IS to push the first take on the new website live
<ochosi> yeah, i appreciate that those aren't release-critical
<knome> *estimate the time to get the tasks done
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> let's move on then...
<knome> besides, there are things like "enable translations"
<elfy> #topic Discussion 
<knome> (^ a bug, so can't mark postponed without dropping the bug from the blueprint)
<elfy> #subtopic Discuss participating in the weekly Community Q&A sessions 
<elfy> knome: this was your baby afaik 
<knome> yep
<elfy> http://ubuntuonair.com/calendar/
<knome> so basically, we have an invitation from daniel holbach... is anybody interested to join some of those?
<elfy> for when these things are - which appears to be 1600 UTC Tuesdays
 * elfy is generally driving at that time 
<knome> if we schedule three sessions per cycle, that means once every two months - and can be different person participating
<knome> technically, it's a google hangout, so you'll have to release your or your cats face
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> that's on hangouts right?
<knome> google hangout... didn't i say that?
<knome> :)
<elfy> you said technically so someone might think not :p
<slickymasterWork> yeah knome, but I'm Alt_tab'ing
<knome> slickymasterWork, ;)
<knome> elfy, heh, i meant "the technical context is..."
<slickymasterWork> so, that's a no go for me, don't have the required, and needed hardware to be able to attend 
<knome> eg. it's not organized in knome's moms tearoom with limited access to elderly people only
<knome> slickymasterWork, if hardware is the issue, we can organize funding from the canonical community fund, or our fund if they think it's stupid.
<knome> slickymasterWork, but if you just rather would not do that, it's ok as well
<knome> slickymasterWork, that being participating, not applying for funds, i can do that ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol, this is a government agency, theoretically I can't bring outside equipment  
<elfy> I'd be in that category if I wasn't driving ... 
<knome> slickymasterWork, aha, so the time is also a problem
<slickymasterWork> not as much
<knome> slickymasterWork, as...?
<knome> it's weekly, so we might be able to ask people to organize one of the hangouts on a weekend as well
<knome> or some other time that would work for anybody participating
<slickymasterWork> ... as being able to get a camera and a microphone and use them here
<elfy> afaik they do them during their working day 
<elfy> knome: ^^
<ochosi> i generally think this is a good initiative/idea, but then again i'm already quite swamped with many other things and don't feel like taking on another responsibility
<knome> well yeah, that's really it
<knome> if nobody can/wants to do it, then let it be so
<knome> elfy, yep...
<ochosi> we could also take that to the ML
<knome> elfy, so the community means the community that can contribute when the canonical employees are at work :P
<ochosi> although i guess having someone from -team do it would be good
<slickymasterWork> lol knome 
<knome> yes, i would say it would have to be a team member that participated for xubuntu
<knome> and i believe that's their thought as well, it's not a users hangout
<elfy> yea 
<knome> (users can participate by asking)
<knome> hangouters should be participating by answering...
<knome> anyway,
<knome> #action knome to send an email about community Q&A participation
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send an email about community Q&A participation
<elfy> thanks knome 
<knome> that way it'll be archived sensbily
<knome> even if nobody wanted to do it now
<elfy> yep
<knome> np
<knome> sensibly too
<knome> move o
<knome> *on
<elfy> #subtopic Finalise User identifies as poll options
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as
<elfy> so there's this poll which Marketing want to run
<knome> i think we should set up a team that goes through this, creates a poll, and then can run it through the team
<elfy> I took the original pad contents and cleaned them up a bit
<knome> did we ask for feedback on this already?
<elfy> from the list - via the pad
<knome> (we did...)
<elfy> slickymasterWork and you did :)
<knome> so here's my feedback (having been working on the original pad)
<elfy> setting up a team makes sense 
<knome> the first question seems good to me
<knome> though i'm not really sure what we are trying to gain with that question
<slickymasterWork> what did I do enterprisedc ?
<slickymasterWork> sorry, this thing TTL'd on me
<knome> the second question is questionable (no pun intended) in my opinion, do we really want to ask/know the *profession* of people?
<ochosi> the main issue i see with the questionnaire is some duplication, like "how do you use xubuntu" is asked in several ways
<elfy> I'd not want to know 
<knome> and/or is that important when wanting to identify people
<slickymasterWork> ah ok, the users poll
<knome> the last question is in my opinion the best one
<knome> that's not as quantitive as the others, but i think it gets us the best bang for the buck, so to speak...
<ochosi> you mean what ppl use the internet for?
<ochosi> or whether ppl customize
<knome> do you strongly agree/strongly disagree with the following statements? (cut or reword some of these)
<knome> the whole list after that
<ochosi> ah
<elfy> so we could cut the middle bit out 
<ochosi> yeah, i think that list is ok
<knome> i think that answer the question of "how do you identify" the best
<ochosi> but there is some duplication going on there
<knome> sure...
<knome> but that's okay
<knome> they aren't an either/or question
<ochosi> yeah, i know
<knome> and it doesn't matter if there is overlap
<knome> each answer can be handled individually
<ochosi> those questions also implicitely identify "personas" or "usage profiles", and probably more clearly than by just asking for it directly
<knome> if 80% of the survey takers identify with any answer, that's a good sign
<knome> yes, so with that list..
<knome> i'm not sure if the first one is needed either
<ochosi> i'd rather make that an optional question
<knome> or maybe the other "where and how" could be moved under that
<knome> the first?
<knome> yeah...
<ochosi> after the others
<knome> or the second?
<knome> i numbered the questions
<knome> so i would propose 2 comes first, and 1 then, and can be optional
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> exactly
<knome> ok
<elfy> works for me 
<ochosi> age bracket should be optional, but is interesting
<knome> ochosi, what kind of bracket?
<knome> 0-18, 18-29, 30-39, ... ?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> btw, we might weave in a question about office tasks in 1)
<knome> i think that might be manageable to squeeze in
<elfy> if you end with 49 - infinity then I will refuse :p
<ochosi> that might help us with the whole LO/abiword discussion
<knome> ochosi, you mean... in 2) ? :P
<knome> oh
<knome> right
<knome> elfy, slickymasterWork: let's schedule some time to go through the 1) list
<knome> and finalize that
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> like: Xubuntu's default software selection satisfies my office needs
<slickymasterWork> I'll answer that after reading the backlog knome 
<slickymasterWork> I lost the all discussion :P
<knome> #action knome to schedule a meeting for poll improving
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to schedule a meeting for poll improving
<knome> ochosi, that sounds a bit off from the general "policy", but we'll see
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> just felt we might throw something like that in the mix
<knome> yep
<ochosi> it's up to you whether you wanna keep it
<elfy> unless we killed off #2 completely 
<ochosi> i mean with 2) i'm really not sure what we wanna know
<elfy> then we could have things like Xubuntu default software satisfies my entertainment needs
<knome> ochosi, yes.
<ochosi> if we wanna know whether our default apps are fine for most users, we should expressedly ask for that
<knome> ochosi, it's a great quantitative question though
<knome> just remember
<knome> this poll is supposed to figure out how our users identify
<ochosi> yeah, but what conclusions do you draw from that question (ideally)?
<knome> there are more polls to follow which can address other questions better
<ochosi> ah, alrighty
<elfy> afaik this is just #1 in a series 
<knome> i don't "want" to draw any conclusions
<knome> i want data that enables us to figure out something
<elfy> so - get some idea of where people are first - then craft polls more specifically - I thought that was pleia2's idea/plan 
<knome> if you understand the difference..
<knome> elfy, absolutely and exactly that
<ochosi> yeah, i had forgotten there would be more of them
<knome> let's move on
<ochosi> yup
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I agree with the idea of one step at a time
<elfy> nothing else on the agenda, but I guess we could deal with games and that discussion
<ochosi> right
<knome> yep, throw a subtopic in and let's briefly discuss the games thread
<ochosi> we could at least continue it a bit
<elfy> #subtopic Discuss games in default install following m/l thread
<elfy> so we have a summary https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XubuntuGamesDiscussion
<elfy> which seems to me to be 
<slickymasterWork> and just ftr: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/thread.html#10530
<elfy> 14 to keep games
<elfy> 4 to lose games completely
<elfy> 1 sitting on the fence and nothing from me :)
<knome> yes... the list url will be available forever, the wiki page will be dropped
<ochosi> hmyeah, i'm sorta on the majority's side if i have to weigh in
<slickymasterWork> the numbers are pretty clear
<elfy> which ignores whether to change the current games or not
<knome> yes, there are good arguments for keeping
<ochosi> i don't *really* care too much, but then again, the games aren't heavy
<knome> "Games make Xubuntu look friendly and less nerdy."
<elfy> and I'm +1 to keeping games
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> yeah, makes sense
<knome> "They are something familiar for new users and helps them connect and feel comfortable with Xubuntu and learn about it."
<vforberger> I vote for 2-4 generic games. those switching from windows will miss solitaire.
<knome> we don't ship solitaire currently though...
<knome> and we aren't discussing which games to ship... yet
<ochosi> we had aisleriot at some point
<knome> yes, was dropped to help with the fit-on-a-CD mission
<elfy> knome: yea - but I think we should discuss that - just not now 
<knome> iirc
<knome> elfy, yep
<slickymasterWork> right
<knome> and to be complete...
<elfy> as I said in -offtopic - I think the best plan would be draw up a list of simple games - then poll users and team 
<knome> i think also seans comments were good:
<knome> "Games makes Xubuntu feel more human-oriented."
<knome> *make
<elfy> agreed
<knome> "Users can install games if they want, but small games are supposed to be quick diversions." <- meaning, it isnt't a quick diversion if you have to isntall a game first
<knome> elfy, works for me
<ochosi> ok, i guess there are no strong voices here for *dropping* the games so let's move along then :)
<elfy> I'll mail Team re getting a list of simple games 
<ochosi> and just fyi aisleriot: installed: 14,8MB, download: 2.8MB
<knome> ochosi, not so simple and small :)
<knome> i'd actually want to discuss one more thing
<ochosi> yeah, it's >1 card game
<knome> briefly
<knome> we'll have to take this on the mailing list...
<elfy> #action elfy to mail list (TEAM) for suggestions on new games for the default
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to mail list (TEAM) for suggestions on new games for the default
<knome> are we going to target a 1Gb image?
<knome> or will we move our "maximum size" target to 2Gb?
<slickymasterWork> I think we should, at least until next LTS
<knome> tbh, i think the target should be "as close as or under 1Gb"
<slickymasterWork> yes,
<elfy> mmm 
<knome> if it seems obvious that we will go over 1Gb with the potential app changes
<knome> or even better,
<knome> "under, or as close as possible to 1Gb"
<knome> under being the first target/goal
<elfy> but surely that doesn't work ?
<knome> probably not.
<slickymasterWork> we're not that far from that, presently 
<ochosi> yeah, would be nice
<knome> especially if we end up replacing abiword and gnumeric with LO components
<elfy> 1.1Gb might be as close as possible - then if the decision is about hardware - how many 1.1Gb usb sticks have you seen? 
<elfy> at that point if it's just that consideration - 2Gb is fine 
<knome> elfy, what my intention is that even if we go over 1Gb, we shouldn't fill up to 2Gb just because; the download size still matters
<ochosi> yeah
<elfy> of course not - that's not really what I'm saying :)
<ochosi> i think it's more about DL size than installation medium
<knome> elfy, i understand, but it's important to mention imo
<slickymasterWork> the media is not the only issue here elfy, there's also bandwidth considertaions
<elfy> afaik none of the other *buntu's are anywhere close to 2 
<knome> elfy, i mean, the "as close to 1Gb as possible" goal
<slickymasterWork> considertaions even
<ochosi> things have changed a little though since we have -core
 * slickymasterWork sighs
<elfy> ochosi: true enough
<knome> ochosi, we don't test the core image *very much*
<ochosi> yeah, not yet
<knome> elfy, no comments about not testing the main images :P
<knome> but yeah...
<elfy> ha ha 
<ochosi> but i dunno if it really needs special testing as soon as it's established that the approach works
<ochosi> most of what's there is the same as in the main image
<knome> as i very theoretically asked elfy one day:
<elfy> lol 
<knome> if we tested the core image with installations, would we really need to test the main image?
<elfy> I gave a theoretical answer based on experience :p
<knome> because the core is the same, main image just brings applications, which are tested separately anyway..
<slickymasterWork> not all of them knome 
<knome> slickymasterWork, then we should reconsider what core is
<knome> but that was just theoretical
<slickymasterWork> point taken
<knome> having a smaller image to download for the ISO test might mean more people would be enabled to test
<knome> *might*
<knome> but that's the discussion
<knome> and we definitely should get this on the list for broader discussion within the team
<slickymasterWork> agreed
<knome> #action knome to send an email about ISO size target(s)
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send an email about ISO size target(s)
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> let's do those ML threads after each other though
<ochosi> and not all at the same time
<ochosi> (just saying)
<knome> btw, i don't know if we've the limit to 1Gb in the automatic prober
<slickymasterWork> knome ^^^:P
<knome> i mean, the download pages notify when images are too large
<knome> ochosi, what! :P
<elfy> ochosi: which mails - ALL of them ?
<knome> stupid..
<elfy> I'd say crack the game one out of the way first 
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> then do ISO size - then push the LO one again
<knome> ochosi, mister mail scheduler, will you tell me when it's ok to send mail to the list then :P
<slickymasterWork> and we're still two more to deal with
<ochosi> hehe
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> just saying, maybe leave a few days between them is all
<elfy> :)
<slickymasterWork> ahahaha
<elfy> the iso size and LO thing can easily move onto 15.10 cycle imho
<slickymasterWork> and the GIMP one also, IMO
<elfy> especially given than beta starts soon and I'll be mailing left right and centre :D
<knome> let's postpone $everything to march 2016
<knome> elfy, spammer!
<elfy> ok - so anything else? 
<ochosi> postpone all the things!
<knome> elfy, yes...
<knome> time for coffee :P
<knome> end the meeting!
<elfy> #action ochosi to postpone all things
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to postpone all things
<elfy> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<ochosi> :D
<knome> what a loved leader is he
<elfy> #action bluesabre to set up next meeting 
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to set up next meeting
<elfy> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jan 30 16:08:35 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-01-30-15.00.moin.txt
<knome> thanks elfy and others
<elfy> thanks everyone :)
<slickymasterWork> thanks all
<ochosi> thanks elfy!
<ochosi> and everyone else
<GridCube> :D
<elfy> I'll get on with scratching my head about getting logs done and meeting page tidied up 
 * genii hears something about coffee, investigates, then wanders out again
<ochosi> mmm, coffee!
<ochosi> good idea
<elfy> logs are up 
<elfy> though #done appears to show up as #action - that's a vicious circle ...
<knome> heh
<knome> poke lderan 
<elfy> lderan: poke
<elfy> :p
<elfy> dude - #done shows up as #action again - that's nasty - I'll action you next time :p
<elfy> then you'll have to sort out #done 
<knome> :P
<elfy> like that? 
<knome> yes
<elfy> good - I'd hate to have to poke lderan again 
<knome> hehe
<knome> elfy, what about the minutes? :P
<elfy> they're there aren't they? 
<knome> elfy, you linked to the log on the mailing list: P
<knome> the minutes have a link to the log
<elfy> oh well 
<knome> he :)
<elfy> people mostly ignore my mails anyway :p
<knome> nope
<knome> i don't at least, i just don't always reply ;)
<elfy> :)
<knome> bbl
<elfy> and ummm
<elfy> so next Thursday 14.04.2 which I've not even thought about - there might be some milestone testing next week
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Does parole work with clutter-gst-3.0?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: it works with the clutter backend in vivid, if that answers the question
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, There is now a new clutter release which will probably be in vivid as well as 2.0, so could you please add porting that to your TODO list?
<Noskcaj> ppa:noskcaj/clutter for binaries
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: thanks, I'll see if any changes are needed on parole, that should be the only clutter-based thing we have
<Noskcaj> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-31
<Noskcaj> cheese and totem have already got patches if you want something to base you work on
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh right, anything you need help on?
<Unit193> bluesabre: From the scrollback, looked like you didn't need to worry about verve.
<bluesabre> indeed, saw that
<knome> verve? the band?
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> nothing yet, I'll have a better idea tomorrow
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<knome> silly jokes aside
<knome> where's slickymaster?
<knome> he sure knows some stupid jokes for variation
<knome> :P
<knome> when was i last on gtalk
<Unit193> I don't know, you never accepted me. :'(
<knome> :D
<knome> no need to do that
<knome> i only have ladies there
<knome> and steve
<knome> :P
<Unit193> 0_o
<knome> haha
<knome> well i have a total of 3 contacts
<knome> do the maths :P
<Unit193> I can do all the maths.
<knome> yes
<knome> in plural
<bluesabre> integralseses
<knome> haha
<ochosi> evening all
<ochosi> well, "evening"
<knome> hallo
<knome> ...okhosi
<ochosi> o hai khnome
<ochosi> are bhluesabre and Uhnit193 still here too, i wonder
<knome> whara wara you?
<ochosi> the usual, out drinkin ;)
<knome> haha
<knome> had fun?
<knome> and had good beers?
<ochosi> fun yeah. beers average and below :)
<knome> :((
<ochosi> Noskcaj: btw, mind to give a quick heads-up on what was the outcome re: bluez5? (i understand you set it to "done", but does that mean things will be fine or the transition won't be happening..?)
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Everything will be fine for us
<ochosi> ok, good to know
<ochosi> btw, i hope you read my feedback in terms of xkb-plugin
<ochosi> or, just to be sure, did you notice/miss it?
<Noskcaj> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-v-bluez5 is the status of bluez 5 stuff
 * Noskcaj looks at xkb
<ochosi> Noskcaj: ok, well in short: the patch doesn't apply on top of git master anymore at all
<ochosi> lots of conflicts, some can be resolved by manual merging, several need more looking into the code
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> i saw the irclog, thanks for the info
<ochosi> i started the manual merge process today but then just gave up because of the harder conflicts (i personally don't use xkb plugin and we don't install it by default, so...)
<ochosi> sure, my main point was: please test these sort of things before you propose a MR or as someone else to "take things upstream", because it will result in frustration on the other person's end
<ochosi> if you ask someone for this sort of assistance/support, they'd usually expect that you have checked things out enough so that they will sort of "be alright", without having to figure out how the respective code works exactly and having to rewrite parts of a patch
<ochosi> not to scold you or anything, but just to make you aware of the "other end" of that process and why ppl might react annoyed to this sort of proposal
<ochosi> Noskcaj: ^
<Noskcaj> ochosi, understood. I checked everything back in trusty, but hadn't paid much attention to it since
<ochosi> Noskcaj: tbh the commits after 0.7.0 (which is the trusty version) seem trivial and mostly translations-related
<ochosi> not sure how this patch can apply on top of the ubuntu version of the plugin but fail so miserably on top of git master
<Noskcaj> I mustn't have checked git then
<ochosi> (unless there are a lot of distro patches, haven't looked at that at all)
<ochosi> righty, you could check whether the patch still applies to 0.7.0 git tag
<ochosi> either way, i subscribed the current xkb maintainer to the bugreport to make him aware of the patch
<ochosi> maybe he'll also act on it, but i wouldn't count on it
<bluesabre> good morning all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> Unit193: y u no sleep?
<Unit193> I have no idea, just can't.  Been trying and have something early this morning. >_<
<brainwash> ochosi: did you play gnome sudoku recently?
<ochosi> no, never played that
<brainwash> you should, it's fun
<brainwash> but not with greybird :)
<brainwash> I usually only play mines, and just accidentally opened sudoko
<elfy> oh my 
<brainwash> elfy: is the grid visually "broken"?
<elfy> that's a bit broken with albatross,all the birds, orion 
<elfy> from the shimmer ppa
<elfy> I'd not call that broken - more completely mashed :)
<brainwash> :D
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/TE5fdwq.png
<brainwash> yeah
<ochosi> no worries, i'll fix it
<elfy> thought so :)
<brainwash> first I thought that this is some form of new game mode
<brainwash> ochosi: awesome :)
<elfy> wickedoku that would be :)
<ochosi> i presume that is how it's supposed to look? http://i.imgur.com/txBedT0.png
<brainwash> yes!
<brainwash> looking good now
<ochosi> hmpf
<ochosi> the gtk3 headerbars are buggy
<ochosi> after opening a game in sudoku, the bottom border isn't drawn
<ochosi> because the height of the headerbar expanded
<ochosi> obviously missing redraw routine
<ochosi> adwaita works around that by always making the headerbar tall enough
<bluesabre> so, a static height?
<ochosi> yeah, or just more padding
<ochosi> not sure now
<slickymaster> ok Unit193, I'll give you the package list next Monday
<ochosi> brainwash, elfy: ok, fix for sudoku pushed to greybird
<ochosi> (not for the headerbar weirdness though)
<elfy> ochosi: okey doke - thanks :)
<slickymaster> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010596.html -> he makes a valid point about Ristretto being unable to print
#xubuntu-devel 2015-02-01
<brainwash> elfy: got urls working in hexchat with firefox. I had to run "gvfs-mime --set x-scheme-handler/http firefox.desktop"
<brainwash> which will update the .config/mimeapps.list
<elfy> brainwash: thanks :)
<brainwash> bluesabre_: there is a patch attached to bug 1260341
<ubottu> bug 1260341 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Tapping lower-right corner of touchpad causes a right-click" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260341
<brainwash> any thoughts on this matter? 
<bluesabre_> brainwash: I can't reproduce the issue, are you able to reproduce?
<bluesabre_> if you can reproduce and the patch resolves, it would be fine by me to merge
<ali1234> brainwash: the ubuntu wallpaper loads properly in the installer now
<ochosi> ali1234: you mean the xubuntu wallpaper?
<ali1234> yes, that
<ochosi> or did ubuntu also have problems with displaying their wall
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> cool
<ali1234> it's black for like 1 second, then the wallpaper loads
<ali1234> it happens after the installer loads up though
<ali1234> but it's definitely an improvement
<ali1234> also the installer now actually works again
<ochosi> yeah, i guess that 1sec is the lag of xfdesktop loading
<ochosi> a lower-spec solution would've been preferrable, but then again, what counts is that it's fixed
<ochosi> bluesabre_: what's your take on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1396804 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1396804 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Name For Thunar Settings Launcher Is Unclear (thunar-settings.desktop)" [Low,Confirmed]
<ochosi> oh also, good news everyone, gmusicbrowser now supports gst1.0
<ochosi> so i guess now mostly pidgin is blocking us there
<bluesabre> ochosi: my take is that its dumb for thunar to have its settings in the settings manager
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, then let's just make it NoDisplay=true
<ochosi> there's already a branch linked, in case you wanna merge it in
<ochosi> i gotta head out again
<bluesabre> alrighty
<ochosi> or we take care of it tomorrow
<bluesabre> I'll probably knock it out tody
<bluesabre> and today
<ochosi> cool, thanks
<ali1234> Noskcaj: this sounds like your thunar crash bug: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#label/Ubuntu/14b3fb89c8dfb8b9
<ali1234> and it has a way to reproduce
<ochosi> bluesabre: we can check out more low-hanging fruit bugs soonish if you wanna
<ali1234> wait that's a link to my gmail :)
<ali1234> bug 1416645
<ubottu> bug 1416645 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar sometimes hang when going to parent directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1416645
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> Wow really?  Shocking.
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure thing
<Unit193> Also, yeah.  "Fixed".  Looked more into it, didn't see what broke.
<knome> what is...
<knome> (hullo)
<ali1234> speaking of low hanging fruit
<elfy> brainwash: belay that thanks ... not working here :p
<ali1234> bug 1270090 has a patch, sponsors offered to SRU it if someone ports it to vivid
<ubottu> bug 1270090 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "time-admin can not install ntp" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270090
<ali1234> i don't know how to do that without installing vivid on my dev system
<bluesabre> bbabl
<brainwash> ali1234: that's great news :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: I never tested the patch, looks like no one did
<brainwash> elfy: /url <url>   also not working?
<elfy> no idea 
<elfy> uninstalled it again 
<brainwash> ok
<elfy> and frankly - it's only hexchat that it fails from anyway
<brainwash> it's not only hexchat
<brainwash> hexchat calls a gtk function for url handling, so more apps should be affected
<elfy> maybe so - but I don't use them :)
<brainwash> maybe you do.. and you just don't click the buttons or select specific menu entries to trigger the bug
<brainwash> :P
<elfy> maybe - but at that point it doesn't matter to me ;)
<brainwash> yea, I'll wait until someone reports this as bug
<elfy> I will once ff36 is released :)
<elfy> I'd do it now - but it'll just get invalid'd :)
<brainwash> by alberto?
<brainwash> I doubt that anyone would do that
<elfy> ccoulson 
<elfy> of course they will - they'd say "Why you using -proposed?"
<knome> why you little
<elfy> then ignore me when I say because it's the only up to date version available to me 
<Unit193> !info firefox vivid
<ubottu> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 34.0+build2-0ubuntu2 (vivid), package size 38969 kB, installed size 91189 kB
<elfy> because no-one seems to care about people running the dev version for them 
<elfy> Unit193: version behind the released releases
<Unit193> So can this bug be hit with utopic?
<Unit193> elfy: Yeah...
<elfy> Unit193: this bug is in ff36, not 35 which utopic has 
<Unit193> I see.
<elfy> I know that because it was working in 35 :)
<Unit193> This is great...  You jump up to a slightly less stable version so you can get recent applications, and ff is outdated...
<elfy> I lol at alberto marking bug 1173767 triaged
<ubottu> bug 1173767 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Settings Manager description " [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173767
<elfy> he's not seen ochosi and me in the xfce one - where I say meh and he says I'll mark it won't fix :p
<knome> in all civility, i'd like to have a little talk with alberto.
<Unit193> ...Wasn't that one gone over about 7 times last cycle, or the one before? :P
<elfy> I rarely see anything now unless I look in Tbird's junk folder
<elfy> knome: ^^
<knome> elfy, yeah.
<Unit193> Take glasses off.
<brainwash> so, please the lp report then :)
<Unit193> So since xubuntu-artwork is nearing the stage of metapackage, should it have stronger (depend upon) the plymouth themes, wallpaper, and icon theme?
<elfy> brainwash: what? 
<knome> Unit193, why not
<brainwash> elfy: will you close your launchpad report?
<elfy> can't 
<elfy> or I'd mark it won't fix :)
<Unit193> knome: I don't see a reason not to really.
<knome> yep
<knome> elfy, bug 1173767, wontfix in ubuntu?
<ubottu> bug 1173767 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Settings Manager description " [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1173767
<Unit193> I'd think perhaps poke an artwork person or dev about it.
<elfy> knome: I guess - it's won't fix in xfce now
<knome> says medium in LP... :P
<knome> no, confirmed
<knome> i'll set the status of the ubuntu pkg to wontfix
<elfy> I know - takes a while to catch up I guess
<knome> done with a comment
<brainwash> bluesabre: did you check the output of "synclient -l | grep -i cornerbutton" with tap-to-click enabled/disabled?
<Unit193> Debian #776798
<ubottu> Debian bug 776798 in catfish "catfish: never stops searching -- doesn't find anything" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/776798
<knome> why is somebody searching for something that doesn't exist?
 * knome hides
<elfy> hide as much as you like 
<elfy> catfish won't find you either ... 
<knome> heh
<brainwash> elfy: my workaround to assign firefox to open links works only temporary
<brainwash> if you click on a help button (like the one in the settings manager), it will launch an empty firefox window
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-01
<jjfrv8> flocculant, or bluesabre, another belated question: what if we get a crash that's the same as an existing bug the that bug is marked Private?
<jjfrv8> Do we file another one and mention that it's a duplicate of the private one? Or just reference the private one?
<jjfrv8> It's thunar btw. Crashed on same move operation on wily and xenial.
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: that's a goooood question, flocculant? :)
<Akxwi-dave> Morning all.. My ISP dropped yesterday towards the end of the session, so some of my messages didn't get thru to you.
<Akxwi-dave> Knome, flocculant. The thunar version I have is 1.6.10.  I have been apt-get update && upgrading but 1.60.10-2 hasn't come down.
<Unit193> !info thunar xenial
<ubottu> thunar (source: thunar): File Manager for Xfce. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.10-2 (xenial), package size 299 kB, installed size 1009 kB
<Akxwi-dave> Going to purge the ppa tonight and re-add it
<Unit193> Which PPA exactly?  Should be ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging  for the thunar crash fix, which I don't believe works.
<Akxwi-dave> and try the testing again.  however as I said yesterday.. I'm not getting any errors on my Thinkpad with thunar version 1.6.10
<Akxwi-dave> Hi uit
<Akxwi-dave>  yep that's the one
<Akxwi-dave> its updated on this vm to 10-2
<Akxwi-dave> Unit193,  that it
<Akxwi-dave> :-)
<Akxwi-dave> was throwing gigs worth of files around on the laptop and it worked fine (1.6.10)
<Akxwi-dave> Not sure if this helps.. but the laptop in question was upgraded via "update-manager -d -c " from 15.10 to 16.04
<tracker6> bluesabre jjfrv8 - something's up with my bouncer ... re dupe of private bug, iirc you need to get the private removed before reporting a dupe - a bot marks them as dupes and it loses the information you might have added to the report
<tracker6> if it's not a bot - then regardless - get the private removed before reporting it :)
<jjfrv8> flocculant, I'm not sure what I should do about that private bug. It's 1502732.
<jjfrv8> I filed new bug 1540186
<ubottu> bug 1540186 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_is_fundamentally_a()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1540186
<jjfrv8> but I did not reference the private one.
<jjfrv8> bbl
<ali1234> jjfrv8: i normally go to #ubuntu-bugs and say "i'm trying to report a bug and it says this private bug is a duplicate. could someone please look at it and mark it not private?"
<ali1234> you normally have to wait about a day for someone to notice you
<krytarik> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-February/039159.html
<krytarik> ("Fonts-droid has been deprecated and removed, please update your dependency")
<akxwi-dave> evening all
<akxwi-dave> just an update re: thunar.. purged the ppa and then re added it.. updated to thunar 1.6.10-2
<akxwi-dave> confirmed version with dkpg --list.  spent 1 hour  moving various combinations of upto 8 gig around and no thunar crashes
<akxwi-dave> on real hardware.. Lenovo E530 Thinkpad...
<akxwi-dave> update:- 1.6.10-2ppa1 is the thunar version..  :-)
<bluesabre> good evening everybody
<bluesabre> krytarik: thanks for that, will look into that tonight if possible
<bluesabre> probably the most difficult part of that is transferring existing configs
<bluesabre> more and more, it seems like we need some sort of migration framework
<knome> mm..
<bluesabre> hey knome 
<knome> hey seanabre
<bluesabre> :\
<knome> wut?
<bluesabre> nothin pasiome
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> knome: get a chance to install a php mysql driver?
<knome> nah, i STILL haven't been on the desktop machine
<knome> slacker as i am..
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Noto Sans seems to render slightly differently
<knome> than droid? yeah...
<bluesabre> might not be so bad, just different
<bluesabre> actually, not a fan of it on the desktop initially
<bluesabre> seems wide
<knome> yeap
<knome> and we use droid on the website too
<bluesabre> knome: so... do we move to noto, use -fallback, or something else?
<bluesabre> might be a discussion to pull ochosi into as well
<knome> definitely
<ali1234> all buttons and labels are misaligned with noto sans for me, regardless of gtk theme selection
<ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/YWQMlGt.png
<ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/1Bw9Wxm.png
<bluesabre> yeah, something weird with that font
<ali1234> ubuntu font actually has the same problem, but to a far lesser extent
<Unit193> cyphermox: Hah, going for CC and TB?  Collect them all! ;)  (G'luck.)
<cyphermox> ahah, yeah, I applied to be on the technical board
<cyphermox> how come this comes up?
<Unit193> Reading mail.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-02
<cyphermox> it's been a while
<Unit193> Yeah I hadn't been following that list. :3
<Unit193> fl<tab><tab><tab> Crap...
<Unit193> Well new xfdashboard is up.
<jjfrv8> ali1234, thanks. Will give #ubuntu-bugs a try.
<bluesabre> New catfish is up in the PPA as well, https://smdavis.us/2016/01/31/catfish-1-3-4-released-new-ppa/
<Unit193> Fancy.
<knome> bluesabre, i'll see if i can come up with a few alternatives (ideally from the repositories)
<bluesabre> knome: cool, let me know as you come up with them so I can try them out :)
<knome> bluesabre, also booting up the desktop machine, so i'll test the wc webapp next
<knome> ^ see what i did there, wc, funny
<bluesabre> barely, nobody refers to them as WCs here in the US anymore
<bluesabre> ... (jerk)
<bluesabre> ;D
<knome> :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist.html#s-3.9.7.0
<Unit193> knome: But, honestly, might as well check into DejaVu.  We already use it in a couple places.
<Unit193> Terminal, and debian/xubuntu-default-settings.gsettings-override:font-name='DejaVu Sans Mono 10'
<knome> Unit193, i know we use it in the terminal, but i think the sans version is bland and iir, a bit too wide
<knome> Unit193, weren't you supposed to be off? :P
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: one font you can try is "Tiresias PCfont" (i know, lame name) from "ttf-tiresias"; these fonts are designed for the visually impaired (and yeah i know it is bold by default, but i don't think the look is *too* bad)
<knome> (the font might need some re-linking to a bold version - it's currently under a different named font, so it isn't catched instantly)
<knome> ...tbh, maybe this isn't what we are looking for, but this is quite a good alternative even with the bold look
<knome> another one is "carlito" from fonts-crosextra-carlito (which is supposed to be a "calibri" replacement)
<knome> it has the line-aligning issue mentioned earlier in the channel though
<knome> carlito with 10.5 size is pretty nice
<ochosi> carlito feels slightly unbalanced
<ochosi> but okayish
<ochosi> i guess i need to use it for a while to really give feedback
<ochosi> tiresias is really bold...
<ochosi> looks ok to me, but meh
<knome> yeah, but also easy to read
<knome> i know
<flocculant> ochosi knome - if we can make a reasonable stab at what we might end up using soonish - I'll change all here and use it all the time and see what happens 
<knome> flocculant, yep, working on it as you can see :)
<flocculant> yep
<ochosi> font size 11 makes carlito look a lot better
<knome> i prefer 10.5, but whatever...
<ochosi> the rendering is odd with 10.5
<flocculant> I'm trying to catch up from web logs and stuff - lost bouncer since Sunday
<ochosi> i'll go ahead and try carlito 11
<ochosi> for a few days
<knome> ochosi, the 8 symbol is weird
<ochosi> i'll check it out
<knome> be weird i mean taller than the rest of the numbers
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i noticed
<ochosi> not sure whether it bothers me enough ;)
<knome> hah
<flocculant> 6 is bigger 
<knome> it would also be nice to see the line-alignment correctly
<knome> flocculant, for some reason, that doesn't bother me as muxh
<knome> *much too
<knome> i mean it's just the "tail"
<flocculant> might be - looks silly to me
<flocculant> looks a bit forced together in LO calc menu
<flocculant> ti looks odd here http://i.imgur.com/NTphN30.png
<knome> that's another symptom of the line-height issue i mentioned before
<flocculant> right - gave up reading logs
<knome> but fwiw, that happens with many fonts
<flocculant> maybe so - doesn't mean that we should accept it :)
<knome> of course not - it would have to be dealt with
<flocculant> as replacement ofc :)
<flocculant> anyway - guess I'll not see anything else that annoys me if the mad numbers and line-height issue is it
<knome> :)
<flocculant> going back to what I had 
<knome> is that something else than droid then
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> well - I used to use the ubuntu fonts - but they're all fubar seemingly 
<knome> heh
<flocculant> forces thin or something instead of light - I forget now :)
<knome> heh
<flocculant> just as long as you two remember that just because something looks nice - it might not if you're older/bad eyesight :p
<knome> of course
<dkessel> flocculant: what ever happened to the automatic ISO testing thing? Is it done? I am asking you before asking in u-q again...
<flocculant> dkessel: seems to have died a death
<flocculant> given up bothering with it now
<dkessel> OK i'll bug them again :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: if its difficult to read, I'll complain
<bluesabre> eyesight has been going downhill lately :\
<knome> :P
<knome> aren't you always complaining anyway?
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> anyway, i think we should just keep with droid..
<bluesabre> knome: you spelled gnome wrong
<knome> but only once!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> so, use the -fallback and carry on?
<knome> well that's just my opinion
<knome> the reason why i think that is that we've used droid for a long time
<knome> and it might be too much of a gamble to switch now for an LTS
<knome> after LTS, well, maybe..
<knome> who knows what kind of changes in direction we might take after LTS anyway
<knome> (no, not referring to any secret plan/information)
<bluesabre> right
<knome> i noticed even a slight change in the font felt huge
<bluesabre> that's how I feel, kinda a crap time to spring a font deprecation
<knome> because it affects a LOT of things
<knome> well,
<bluesabre> yes it does
<knome> how is a font deprecated?
<bluesabre> it gets yanked out of the repos
<knome> if the package isn't maintained, will the font file explode and delete all your files?
<knome> but we can add it back...
<bluesabre> it could
<bluesabre> fonts are volatile
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> then it could do it right now
<knome> font technology for desktop hasn't gone much forward in the last 25 years
<knome> TTF still exists and is widely used
<bluesabre> well, we "can" is difficult, as we aren't archive admins and folks will probably disagree with adding something back to the archive after debian has dropped it
<knome> so i don't think that's at stake either if we just reupload :P
<bluesabre> though I think the -fallback package is teh solution to that
<bluesabre> just tossing it into universe
<bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-February/039159.html 
<bluesabre> - use fonts-droid-fallback (in universe)
<knome> yes
<knome> what's the difference of fonts-droid and fonts-droid-fallback?
<knome> is it the exact same package?
<bluesabre> dunno
<knome> would be nice to know
<knome> and if it's the same package, why on earth change the name?!
<bluesabre> https://packages.debian.org/sid/fonts-droid-fallback
<bluesabre>   * Add recommendation on fonts-noto-mono.
<bluesabre> oh, nevermind that last line
<bluesabre> thats for fonts-android source package
<knome> but the fallback package is said to recommend noto too.
<bluesabre> vs https://packages.debian.org/sid/fonts-droid
<knome> so we will end up installing noto anyway
<knome> (hooray)
<bluesabre> we can look into it
<knome> the name will change then
<bluesabre> looks like its not landed in ubuntu yet
<knome> it's no longer "Droid Sans", it will be "Droid Sans Fallback"
<knome> which seems meh
<knome> i guess i'll try using noto
<bluesabre> no way to avoid config migration then
<knome> tbh, we probably should look into that anyway
<knome> not for all releases, but LTS->LTS
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> There might be something that handles that already, otherwise I can put something flexible together
<knome> i would imagine somebody doing something like that
<knome> noto 10 is HUGE :|
<knome> noto 9 is okay
<bluesabre> heading out to get dinner supplies, bbiab
<bluesabre> baaacj
<bluesabre> baaack too
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-03
<knome> bluesabre, i've been using Noto 9 since yesterday, and while it isn't bad, it's a bit meh...
<knome> bluesabre, i'm trying the wc app next, let's see if i run out of time or not before i get to try it for realz
<knome> bluesabre, actually, i would say the replacement would need to be Noto Sans 9, because then we get to keep the line-height at par with Droid Sans 10
<knome> bluesabre, Noto 9 is already much wider than Droid 10 anyway...
<knome> and for that matter, Noto still looks more "cramped" than Droid, so it's definitely getting worse with Noto..
<knome> another potential substitute is the Ubuntu font
<knome> bluesabre, sent a comment to the issue; still not fixy
<flocculant> knome: and that font has issues
<flocculant> ochosi: when you're about #u-desktop from (UK) 16:21 - fair bit about usc and gs 
<flocculant> bluesabre: could you leave an answer on bug 1294600
<ubottu> bug 1294600 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Add support for tear-free compositing in Xfce" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294600
<knome> flocculant, what kind of issues?
<flocculant> bug 1525150 bug 1521210 bug 1520772
<ubottu> bug 1525150 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu font missing part of 8 and 3 in hexchat" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1525150
<ubottu> bug 1521210 in Ubuntu Font Family "Choosing Light font for Desktop not working" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1521210
<ubottu> bug 1520772 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu Xenial) "New font uses Arabic-sized figures in Latin contexts" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1520772
<flocculant> knome: and I checked those again recently, still the same here
<knome> right
<flocculant> well - I check when I see an update/grade to the package(s) 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> as with anything else I know I've reported
<flocculant> talking of which doesn't appear to be anything happening with the fop problem
<flocculant> btw
<knome> right
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks, read up on that
<ochosi> so yeah, we'll see how things play out for u-desktop and follow their decision
<ochosi> unless g-s feels broken ofc
<flocculant> ochosi: yep
<flocculant> though if I read it right - then we'll be ok to carry on as is
<flocculant> not appearing too positive currently
<ochosi> yeah, some very basic issues it seems
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> ochosi: how's things anyway - don't catch up much lately - busy busy busy I assume :)
<ochosi> yeah, well i was @fosdem on the weekend
<ochosi> and during the week i was working
<ochosi> so it's been pretty intense
<flocculant> oh right - was that good? 
<ochosi> other than that i'm doing fine :)
<ochosi> yeah, it was really nice
<ochosi> even got to see sabdfl
<flocculant> yea I know work is a bit different for you now :)
<flocculant> nice one 
<ochosi> and actually many other interesting talks
<flocculant> cool
<ochosi> also met ofourdan and kalikiana and larsu
<flocculant> 2 I have heard of (1 of them I see on irc) 
<flocculant> never heard of kalikiana
<ochosi> rly?
<ochosi> midori author
<ochosi> previously also wrote postler, of which parts turned into geary
<ochosi> and now he's working on ubuntu touch/convergence
<flocculant> that'll be why probably - tried midori a couple of times and then ignored it
<flocculant> and if he's involved with touch/convergence that's something I tend to shy away from tbh
<ochosi> anyway, lovely chap, knome knows him too
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> not many people aren't to be honest - lovely chap(esses)'s that is :)
<ochosi> well, i try to remain optimistic
<flocculant> you have too :)
<knome> either i've been able to avoid the non-lovely chaps, but most of the people i've been involved with more deeply have been nice chaps
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-04
<jjfrv8> so I got bug 1502732 marked public, now which one do I mark as a dupe?
<ubottu> bug 1502732 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_is_fundamentally_a()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1502732
<jjfrv8> That one was for Thunar 1.6.10-1 on wily, mine was 1.6.10-2 on both wily and xenial. but both the same segfault.
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> the CC is catching up with the Xubuntu team in #ubuntu-meeting right now
<dholbach> can anyone answer a few questions for the team?
<dholbach> bluesabre, ochosi, Noskcaj_, ^?
<cyphermox> flocculant: ^
<dholbach> thanks cyphermox - I was sure I was missing the most important people :-)
<flocculant> cyphermox: seemingly not anymore :)
<cyphermox> moo?
<flocculant> entirely possible
<flocculant> :)
 * flocculant wanders away from -meeting again 
<cyphermox> wonderful. I knew it
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> I of course know moo as ermintrude
<flocculant> being old
<dholbach> flocculant: what?
<dholbach> sorry
<flocculant> dholbach: what what? 
<dholbach> we just thought that nobody froom Xubuntu was around
<dholbach> which is why we moved on to somebody from the Ubuntu Studio team
<flocculant> I wasn't - just got home :)
<dholbach> sorry
<flocculant> yep - I know the score and how it works ;)
<dholbach> we can change back to Xubuntu in a bit again, no worries :)
<cyphermox> flocculant: ermintrude was over 1400 years ago :)
<flocculant> dholbach: ok - not sure anyone else is about - but I know more or less what's up for us 
<dholbach> great :)
<dholbach> let's chat in a bit then
<flocculant> cyphermox: well the early 70s seems that long ago :p
<dkessel> Oh, quite some lines about Xubuntu in #ubuntu-meeting ...
<flocculant> well yes
<flocculant> it was our turn :p
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-05
<bluesabre> good evening all
<knome> hell
<knome> o
<knome> :|
<bluesabre> :(
 * bluesabre sobs uncontrollably in the corner
<knome> again?
<bluesabre> :'(
<knome> now what is it this time?
<bluesabre> you being a bully :P
<knome> right?
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1533200
<ubottu> bug 1533200 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "Black background at first login" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533200
<flocculant> not sure what's causing that - but I guess we don't want to have that for 3 years ... 
<flocculant> or rather than not sure - can't remember what ochosi said about it ... 
<flocculant> or even if I misremember that :(
<Unit193> flocculant: Dang, bummer you got stuck with the CC meeting. :/
<Unit193> Go well?
<dholbach> Unit193: I don't think it was that much of an ordeal...
<dholbach> flocculant did a great job explaining what's currently happening in the xubuntu world and which issues are currently most pressing.
<Unit193> dholbach: Hah, nothing personal.  Just a bummer it was just him and none of us were there either.
<Unit193> Howdy.
<dholbach> ah ok :-)
<Unit193> Though you guys might look just as scary in the morning as knome. ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll see if I can get a good look at that this weekend
<bluesabre> flocculant: can you kick the tires on https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/ubuntu/ppa catfish-daily? I'll probably go ahead and push out 1.4.0 this weekend if things seem to check out
<bluesabre> and work on the greeter, see what I can fix
<bluesabre> it's one of the worst kinds of bugs, everything is working until it stops
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> Unit193: hah - no-one scares me :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: anything in particular this catfish fixes? or just have at it
<flocculant> and yes I understand that with the bug ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll have a see at catfish when I'm really home later - I'm away from early tomorrow till Monday/Tuesday after that
<flocculant> Unit193: and yea - was ok - other than Daniel and Michael :p
<slickymasterWork> !team | Meeting in ten minutes
<ubottu> Meeting in ten minutes: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
 * dkessel will be on the road during the meeting
<slickymasterWork> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb  5 15:00:01 2016 UTC.  The chair is slickymasterWork. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slickymasterWork> Welcome all to the Xubuntu community meeting.  The agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<slickymasterWork> So, who's here for the meeting?
 * micahg is here
<slickymasterWork> welcome micahg :)
<slickymasterWork> anyone else?
<jfaust> jfaust is here.  first meeting for me
<slickymasterWork> welcome jfaust :)
<jfaust> thanks!
<slickymasterWork> unfortunately it seems that we won't have quorum to proceed with the meeting
<slickymasterWork> there's just me and micahg here, from team
<slickymasterWork> unless any other members show up
<jfaust> I'm curious about the process.  Planned to just observe (and contribute if I could).  Happy to hang out for awhile and wait for others.
<slickymasterWork> I'll give it another 10 minutes to see if anyone shows up
<slickymasterWork> if not I'll reschedule it
<slickymasterWork> ?
<slickymasterWork> but as long as you're here now jfaust, did you already have a read at http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/
<slickymasterWork> it's a good starting point for you
<jfaust> Yes, I have read (most of) the contributor information.  Trying to test 16.04 now
<slickymasterWork> great
<jfaust> unfortunately I missed the recent meeting about testing. still not 100% how best to focus my efforts...
<slickymasterWork> jfaust, here is the backlog of that meeting -> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/01/31/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t16:00
<jfaust> oh, that's great!  Will definitely check it out.  Thanks!
<slickymasterWork> sure jfaust, no problem
<slickymasterWork> #info due to the lack of quorum the meeting is postponed and slickymaster will reschedule it
<slickymasterWork> #action slickymaster to reschedule next Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to reschedule next Xubuntu Community Meeting
<slickymasterWork> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb  5 15:18:00 2016 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-02-05-15.00.moin.txt
<slickymasterWork> thanks micahg and jfaust for showing up
<jfaust> slickymaster, thanks for your help!  Will try to attend the next meeting.
<slickymasterWork> are yo subscribed to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, jfaust?
<slickymasterWork> if not, I advise to subscribe it
<slickymasterWork> + you
<jfaust> Yes, I am subscribed to the mailing list.  Hope to transition from a lurker to a contributor :)
<slickymasterWork> you're more than welcome jfaust 
<slickymasterWork> Minutes are up
<flocculant> jfaust: basically - the question I have is - What position are you in to test? hardware? virtual? the dev version? the released stable version only? 
<jfaust> hi flocculant.  I have a daily build (~1 week old) running in a virtual machine.  Just trying sotware and settings that I typically use.  I have a lot of thunar crashes in 15.10. haven't tried reproducing them in 16.04
<flocculant> jfaust: ok 
<jfaust> flocculant: build is actually 3 weeks old.
<flocculant> let me gather my thoughts while the kettle boils 
<flocculant> jfaust: ok so - in vm you could check the latest thunar and try reproducing - add this ppa
<flocculant> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging?field.series_filter=xenial
<flocculant> make sure you're updated first though
<slickymasterWork> hey flocculant 
<slickymasterWork> :P
<flocculant> then update/upgrade should drag the new thunar and power manager in
<flocculant> power manager changes won't be apparent in vm
<flocculant> xenial is pretty stable atm - unless you're mad enough to use the proposed repos
<flocculant> perhaps consider a dual boot
<flocculant> I do that - data is in other partitions
<flocculant> testing of the ppa thunar is important currently
<flocculant> hi slickymasterWork :)
<flocculant> jfaust: did you see http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/ ? 
<flocculant> there are 3 qa sections there
<slickymasterWork> flocculant, did you read the backlog yet?
<flocculant> yep
<slickymasterWork> ok
<flocculant> knew there was meeting - knew I'd be driving :)
<slickymasterWork> I'll reschedule it during the weekend
<slickymasterWork> you won't be around, I know ;)
<flocculant> :D
<jfaust> flocculant: upgrading now, will take a while :) i have read the contributor info., but still a little unsure about where to start.  will check it out again
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: not back till monday/tuesday but no work next week at all
<flocculant> jfaust: right 
<flocculant> jfaust: tbh if you can the best place to start is run a dual boot. Then use the xenial one all the time - then fall back if something breaks
<slickymasterWork> you lucky you, flocculant 
<slickymasterWork> :P
<flocculant> jfaust: I've had little to write home about since cycle start tbh
<jfaust> flocculant: I will focus on thunar.  The crashes in 15.10 are not reproducible for me.  Mostly when renaming files or moving into subfolders.
<jfaust> I will consider a dual boot.  definitely see the benefit of running 16 as primary
<flocculant> jfaust: finally - being around on IRC and seeing what's current - and checking those things is useful to us hugely
<flocculant> jfaust: ok - that'd be really helpful indeed - I'm sure there are people who do so - but we rarely get any feedback 
<jfaust> flocculant:  sounds good.  still new to IRC.  forgive me lapses in etiquette :)
<flocculant> oh and also - nothing to stop you running through the priority and mandatory testcases on http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/350/builds/105268/testcases
<flocculant> jfaust: :) basically enough - assuming you want people to treat you well - treat them the same and you'll be fine :D
<flocculant> jfaust: aah cool - I see you on the testers team, when you say you're subscribed to mailing list - do you mean the dev one? that'd be the one to be using
<jfaust> flocculant: sounds great!  thanks for pointing out the testcases.  i think that's what i've been looking for.
<flocculant> they are a good way to break yourself into testing 
<jfaust> flocullant: i am on the dev mailing list also
<flocculant> but what we call exploratory testing is much better - and just a fancy name for 'installing and using the dev release on hardware normally' :)
<flocculant> jfaust: k - the testers/dev list is where 99% of the qa focus is
<flocculant> and finally finally - if you do have questions - anyone should be able to help you somehow - even if pointing you to who to ask
<flocculant> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa/+members#active should be the best bets
<flocculant> their IRC names are on their LP pages - mine is the same there as here :)
<flocculant> sigh 
<flocculant> so really I shouldn't say finally till the night arrives ...
<jfaust> flocculant: ok, my plan will be to knock out the test cases first and then do more exploration.  thank you so much for all the help! I need to unplug now.  bye
<flocculant> jfaust: thanks for the interest :)
<ochosi> evening all
<flocculant> hi ochosi if you're still with us :)
<slickymaster> o/
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<ochosi> slickymaster: sorry i couldn't make it for the meeting
<flocculant> hey ochosi :)
<slickymaster> no problem
<ochosi> flocculant: i saw some of the backlog, havent had time yet for all of it
<slickymaster> no one did :P
<ochosi> so in case you wanna give me a quick summary, that wouldn't make me angry ;)
<slickymaster> I'll reschedule for next week, ochosi 
<ochosi> slickymaster: thanks!
<flocculant> ochosi: might want to read http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/02/04/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t17:41
<slickymaster> sure
<flocculant> ochosi: not much in backlog here afaik
<flocculant> I did CC meeting - brought up usc/g-s, fonts and core
<flocculant> other than that - just said we were all cool as cucumbers (as always) and knew where the CC was
 * slickymaster likes cucumber
<slickymaster> in salads
 * flocculant realises that ochosi would know that if he goes to the log first :p
<flocculant> ochosi: not sure if you'll see this in backlog - I'm away till Monday/Tuesday
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> read the backlog now
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> thanks for bringing up our issues
<ochosi> good to know we can keep using droid
<ochosi> the alternatives are okayish, but not exactly thrilling
<flocculant> yea for sure
<flocculant> I'm not in the least arty but I wasn't thrilled
<ochosi> and about the -core issue, i'm not sure i got the gist of that
<ochosi> hey knome 
<knome> hey ochosi 
<flocculant> ochosi: I was mostly interested from qa pov there tbh - if it's too late - it can be finished, but I'll not be signing it off untested
<bluesabre> evening all
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<knome> 'lo
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-06
<knome> brainwash, long time no see, what's up?
<brainwash> not much, as usual. I'm a bit curious about xubuntu 16.04, so I'm idling in the xfce related channels. :)
<brainwash> I maintain some office machines, and xubuntu 16.04 may be the way to go.
<knome> what are they running now?
<brainwash> a mix of windows 7 and debian oldstable
<brainwash> windows is not really needed in this case
<knome> right :)
<knome> bbl
<zeioth_> any plans to implement mir or wayland in the future?
<knome> zeioth_, are you asking because you want to help?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-02-07
<bluesabre> zeioth_: no current plans, we use Xfce which does not yet utilize mir or wayland and would currently not benefit from using those options
<zeioth_> tearing is a problem some times, i've heard that wayland/mir are tearing free
<bluesabre> zeioth_: there have been some reports of tear-free usage when using the 
<bluesabre> "Synchronize drawing to the vertical blank" option in Window Manager Tweaks, Compositor tab
<bluesabre> once enabled, you'll have to log out and back in for the setting to take effect
<zeioth_> I'm my particular case the problem only happen using firefox. I've trying disablind hardware acceleration, different drivers... nothing works yet
<zeioth_> i hope they fix it, anyway I'll change my graphic card soon, i hope it helps too
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa looks like that doesn't match upstream parole's version.
<bluesabre> I should probably fix that when I get home
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2016-February/001168.html
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-30
<flocculant> bluesabre: what do we want to to about reporting gtk3 xfce setting issues? 
<ochosi> flocculant: imo those should be reported on bugs.xfce.org as this work has been merged already to the master branch
<ochosi> plus it has been released as 4.13.0
<ochosi> so if bluesabre was a good boy, he added the version already to buzgilla
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - not bother reporting to lp?
<ochosi> imo one tracker is enough
<flocculant> ok - I'll go with that for the moment and wait for you and bluesabre to either have the same pov or discuss it :p
<flocculant> ochosi: one of the things I found is mouse scrolling :
<flocculant> )
<flocculant> in something new - but same as notify
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> right, good to know if it's not just notifyd
<ochosi> then it's most likely settings' bug
<ochosi> so i added the 4.13.0 version tag to bugzilla
<flocculant> yea that was what I thought - hence mentioning it to you :)
<ochosi> feel free to start reporting those bugs
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - cheers
<ochosi> btw, i also have a new taskman release pending
<ochosi> added a small feature and fixed some bugs
<ochosi> if you wanna take it for a spin
<flocculant> yea saw the mention of it earlier
<flocculant> yup can do :)
<ochosi> basically this means building the master branch
<ochosi> same routine as with notifyd
<flocculant> right - sounds like I might want to do that in a vm first :p
<ochosi> first install the build-deps (apt-get build-dep xfce4-taskmanager), then after cloning run ./autogen.sh && make && ./src/xfce4-taskmanager to execute without install (which is unproblematic, apart from a missing icon)
<ochosi> sure, in a vm you can install it with sudo make install in the end
<ochosi> which makes the missing icon thing also go away
<ochosi> this is what to expect: http://i.imgur.com/aq3ht6j.png
<ochosi> so there's the new crosshair button in the toolbar
<ochosi> (between settings and about)
<ochosi> that one you can take for a spin
<ochosi> the fixed bugs you probably won't notice, because we don't ship the gtk3 version of taskman atm
<Unit193> Do in PPA.
<flocculant> ochosi: ^^ is what I have locally
<flocculant> ochosi: and where do I clone it from :)
<Unit193> distcheck it, I'll package it.  Also: echo $(date -u +"%Y%m%d" -d @`git log --format="%ct" -n1`).$(git rev-parse --short HEAD)
<flocculant> \o/ oem install works now
<flocculant> Unit193: that's just voodoo ... 
<flocculant> on the other hand encrypt/lvm doesn't ...
<flocculant> ochosi: finding more mouse scrolling - I'll write a list before posting the bug
<flocculant> lvm didn't like a 12g drive 
<ochosi> flocculant: from here: https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-taskmanager/
<ochosi> Unit193: i'll try to do a release shortly, then you can package something for realz
<ochosi> ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: ta - thought so 
<ochosi> bbl
<flocculant> ochosi: I can see the cross-hair being a useful thing for people 
<bluesabre> ochosi, not an admin on xfce4-settings in bugzilla
<akxwi-dave> morning all - had ubiquity/os-prober been updated..  got a possible problem on todays i386 iso.. its not detecting the existing installation of Xubuntu
<akxwi-dave> has*
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: yea - reported and being worked on
<akxwi-dave> ahhhh..  good couldn't find a bug report..  and morning flocculant 
<flocculant> some idiot was mucking about with dupes and stuff overnight
<flocculant> eg unmarking the dupe and duping mine - even though my one is the one with detail :D
<akxwi-dave> ahhhh.. lol same with one I did  a while back...    wasn't anyone we know was it.. ;-)
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> someone hardly anyone would know about instead :p
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: not sure if you saw backlog from this morning - but checked oem \o/ and encrypt /0\
<akxwi-dave>   yup saw that. :-)
<flocculant> ochosi: what if there is a usability issue with the current settings which is replicated in the gtk3 one?
<flocculant> I'm thinking of reporting more than 1 bug so different issues don't get lost in the mix
<flocculant> that is keeping regressions in a bug, odd things in a seperate bug 
<ochosi> well that's the version tag in bugzilla that you'll have to use
<ochosi> not sure whether it allows for multi-select of versions
<ochosi> probably not
<ochosi> since 4.12 will likely not see another maintenance release (unless 4.14 takes forever) i would report it against the new version primarily
<ochosi> and then mention that it predates 4.13
<flocculant> ok 
<flocculant> but that's not the actual question I have :)
<flocculant> the question I have is 'Shall I keep things that are definitely wrong on a seperate bug from those which are 'that's odd' ones?
 * flocculant joined xfce-dev 
<flocculant> ochosi: reported 13316,7 and 8 to bugzilla 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-31
<flocculant> bluesabre: just a gentle prod to see if you remember there is an odd issue with parole and playing some files not others 
<flocculant> bluesabre: also - is this SRU material do you think? bug 1308105
<ubottu> bug 1308105 in Mythbuntu "Xfce resets TV mode to NULL when power cycled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308105
<electricerger> Hey guys, I'm looking to do some coding for an open source project does anybody have an active project that needs more devs?
<ochosi> electricerger: hi, how about xfce?
<electricerger> I've been stalking a few of those things, and chilling in xfce chat. I didn't get too many responses.
<electricerger> It is #xfce right? not #xfce-dev or something?
<ochosi> it's actually #xfce-dev
<ochosi> can be quiet at times, so hanging out there alone may not get you anywhere
<ochosi> but then again, you already got in touch with me, so.. ;)
<ochosi> flocculant: hey, we may have another candidate for a thunar fix. it's looking pretty solid here in terms of not(!) crashing
<electricerger> Sure. I do love thunar (I preferred it even when I was on other OS's).
<electricerger> I'll join the chan now.
<electricerger> I'm part of the xfce and xubuntu mailing list, but is there a specific way to join/stay on top of the thunar project?
<krytarik> electricerger: I don't think he was referring to you with that, but another patch for it.
<electricerger> Oh. Oh well. I'll just stalk the chan then.
<krytarik> Otherwise yeah, mailing lists and these channels is basically it.
<knome> also, which mailing lists?
<knome> my advice would be to communicate with people and not feel let down if you don't instantly get a response... as that just happens with open source projects now and then :)
<electricerger> Yeah, that's what I kind of expect in a hobby like this.
<flocculant> ochosi: \o/
<flocculant> and evening all - and hi electricerger :)
<electricerger> Howdy
<flocculant> ochosi: were those bugs I reported what you expected ?
<ochosi> flocculant: haven't had time to review those yet tbh
<flocculant> ok 
<ochosi> but the thunar patch may be interesting for you to try ot
<ochosi> out
<flocculant> ochosi: I can 
<ochosi> awesome!
<ochosi> want some instructions?
<flocculant> yea - I hate patches lol
<flocculant> takes me ages to google fu ...
<ochosi> http://dpaste.com/1A1XBQM
<ochosi> this is all of it ^
<ochosi> no need to install thunar
<flocculant> okey doke
<ochosi> great stuff
<ochosi> if it works for you and we get at least one or two more testers i'm inclined to merge and push this to master
<ochosi> and even do a patch release for thunar
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - well I'll do that now - by tomorrow later I'll have had cause to do enough to trigger a crash normally 
<flocculant> if that even makes sense ...
<ochosi> well if you wanna do that, then you better install it
<ochosi> these instructions are only for testing for a limited amount of time (until you close thunar again)
<flocculant> oh right 
<ochosi> so basically finish it up with a "sudo make install"
<ochosi> fwiw the namespace is different anyway, so a "sudo make uninstall" let's you go back to 'ol thunar
<flocculant> well I'm fine with running 'whatever' version of things to test properly
 * flocculant notes the proliferation of xfce folders on desktop this cycle :D
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> you're really helping a lot, that much i can say
<flocculant> good 
<flocculant> ok - all installed - give me some time to kill it :)
<knome> has your emails gone to spam or has nobody in the team replied to me on the t-shirt issue?
<flocculant> not seen it 
<knome> so maybe it was my mail that went to spam
<flocculant> oh yes I have 
<knome> fwiw, it was off-list on purpose
<flocculant> sorry for the mistake 
<knome> :)
<knome> no worries
<flocculant> I didn't reply - cos no-one would wear it other than me - and I'm definitely not woman :)
<knome> yep
<knome> that was the hoped-for action if you didn't need one :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: can always do a call to arms to testers to test the thunar thing if you feel it useful
<flocculant> meh - that giot thunar is screwing up pkexec one :p
<flocculant> fixed that 
<krytarik> Btw: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2017-January/004018.html [16.04.2 delayed until Feb 9 for HWE issues]
<flocculant> krytarik: thanks - was just going to fwd the mail to us
<krytarik> Hurr. :D
<ochosi> knome: i didn't reply because we had talked already and my stance was that i take one if nobody else wants it. consequently i didn't want to take a front-row seat and didnt reply
<knome> lol, ok
<flocculant> knome: if we could tweet and stuff that thunar patch testing that'd be super :D
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: some thunar testing is afoot :)
<knome> we can
<knome> but i need pleia2 for "stuff"
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> flocculant: btw i take it from your comments so far that the taskman thing i sent you worked fine for you?
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - as you said icon - but other than that it appears to be fine
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> then i'll prepare the release asap
<flocculant> don't really use it much so never noticed any bugs 
<ochosi> :]
<ochosi> well if it generally works that's something alredy
<ochosi> already
<flocculant> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-01
<flocculant> ochosi: well I'bve not been able to crash it
<Unit193> Nice, but where did this voodoo patch come from?
<flocculant> not sure 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: ristretto 0.8.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-ristretto-0-8-2-released-tp48806.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<ochosi> flocculant: nice, thats good news! lets wait for at least one more tester to report back and i'll push it to master
<flocculant> ochosi: yep
<flocculant> be good to see the back of that particular albatross ... 
<flocculant> ochosi: I assume once we've done that we can get that into zesty and sru for 16.04?
<flocculant> and get task manager into zesty - and notify :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: suggest we keep qa status as fail on install till 1660159 is fixed
<akxwi-dave> kk mate  and evening
<knome> 'lo
<flocculant> evening :)
<flocculant> hi knome too 
<akxwi-dave> hi knome 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: did you see the thunar stuffs? 
<knome> oi both
<akxwi-dave> not yet  only just logged on
<flocculant> ok - seems to be a useful pair of patches
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: if needed - mounting other os and running update-grub gets them back
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - crashed it
<flocculant> moving iso's from one drive to another
<flocculant> I'll try and get a backtrace
<flocculant> well that's dandy ... it hung - so has gdb ... 
<flocculant> ochosi: commented on xfce 12264
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: if you are able to confirm bug 1660159 that'd be good
<ubottu> bug 1660159 in os-prober (Ubuntu Zesty) "os-prober fails to see other installed systems" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1660159
<Unit193> flocculant: You can reproduce the normal hangs/crashes pretty easily right?  How about this new one?  Mind poking the PPA version and see how it compares?
<Unit193> I would, but I don't really have major issues with the current one, not hung it all that much..
<flocculant> Unit193: previously I could crash it more or less at will
<flocculant> this time it's been fine till I copied ~20Gb about the place
<flocculant> then 2/3 crashes 
<flocculant> I'll uninstall the git one and grab your ppa - but not got time to test it now
<Unit193> That's fine.
<flocculant> meh
<Unit193> It should have all the fixes from git and both patches, so should be just as good as what you have.  If there's no drawbacks, then this seems like it's better than what's currently in the repos, no?
<knome> yeaaaa
<knome> :)
<flocculant> ok - installed it - will check tomorrow
<flocculant> well it's 'better' ... 
<flocculant> ;)
<flocculant> Unit193: I don't suppose you've got a zesty installed on something that's got other os installed on it?
<flocculant> or anyone else for that matter 
<Unit193> I have a zesty install, but no other OS.
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> giving up for the night :)
<genii> flocculant: Does the other OS matter?
<genii> Because if I run update-grub when there's a USB stick with Xenial plugged into my Zesty it sees it
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks for the reminder, parole is up next for things I'll be fixing
<knome> hullo bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hiya knome 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-02
<Unit193> flocculant: Do you use any Qt5 applications in Zesty?
<flocculant> Unit193: not that I'm aware of - if you're seeing something odd I can install something to see here :)
<Unit193> flocculant: Looks like the old "no style" theme, QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE=gtk isn't cutting it for me anymore.  In theory qt5-style-plugins should help, but that makes it unreadable for me.
<flocculant> right = well not got any (or if I have) they're not behaving oddly
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: bug 1660159  is also affecting ISO installs.. doesn't discover existing installs ..
<ubottu> bug 1660159 in os-prober (Ubuntu Zesty) "os-prober fails to see other installed systems" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1660159
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: yea - that's why I said about keeping qa status as fail for the time being
<flocculant> that bug will affect any system that has zesty running grub, other os installed, other os not mounted when os-prober runs
<flocculant> ochosi Unit193 bluesabre - some more testing with thunar - removed the built from git and patches, installed from Unit193's ppa
<flocculant> done what I did yesterday 4 times - no crashing
<flocculant> also noticed that thunar is more responsive with the ppa package - yesterday while it was copying or moving opening folders was quite slow - significant enough for me to notice
<bluesabre> flocculant, sounds promising :)
<flocculant> that said it is definitely better than the previous version
<flocculant> also
<flocculant> the test ffrom the thunar bug - 1.txt etc - I had that running for 3 hours or so while away - that didn't crash either
<flocculant> bluesabre: yup
<flocculant> bluesabre: also did you see my question the other day re sru for the xfce/tv dying bug - possibility of? 
<flocculant> bug 1308105
<ubottu> bug 1308105 in Mythbuntu "Xfce resets TV mode to NULL when power cycled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1308105
<bluesabre> flocculant, I did, and that may indeed be SRU-worthy, haven't seen any significant regressions from that version
<flocculant> ok thanks :)
<flocculant> I also assume we'll be sru'ing thunar 
<knome> ugh, i should run tests on the thunar PPA
<flocculant> knome: that would be nice ;)
<knome> indeed
<knome> now where was the ppa again...
<knome> there.
<knome> wait, what, did the PPA page in launchpad change recently?
<knome> oh nope
<knome> aaand dist-upgrading
<knome> well... i could still crash thunar
<knome> or maybe that was still the old instance running
<knome> can't reproduce easily after new launch - yay
<knome> and now i can't reproduce the other bug at all
<knome> this feels/looks good to me
<knome> and yes, this is definitely SRU material
<flocculant> I'll just run up a vm that should be big enough to check disk size requirement
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<knome> yup
<knome> ta
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: thanks for commenting :)
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> knome: ok so this isn't quite as easy as it should be 
<flocculant> installer currently not seeing existing install hence can't see the minimum - we can either wait to confirm 6.1 or see what yak says
<knome> we have the time to wait if you are willing to do it :)
<flocculant> well - that means wiating till the bug isn't a bug :p
<knome> sure
<knome> though obviously yak gives a decent idea what it is
<flocculant> which might be something to do with this os-prober business or not *shrug*
<knome> and this isn't "do it once, then need to run all over the place and handle bureucracy to change again", this is "we can update it later on need"
<flocculant> knome: yea - I can run a yak up nowish
<flocculant> got waylaid making sure the zesty thing is real :p
<knome> :P
<flocculant> knome: installing 16.10 alongside 17.04 allows me to make zesty 5.3 but only allows me to make 16.10 7 when resizing
<flocculant> so I would say just change the 6.1 to 7 for now - we can as you say revisit 
<knome> right...
<knome> sigh, relogin
<knome> there
<flocculant> knome: maybe currently?
<knome> no, proposed :P
<knome> current is "old"
<flocculant> ho ho ho 
<knome> proposed is "to be current"
<knome> oh
<knome> nah
<knome> i think that's implied
<flocculant> well
<knome> you currently need 512MB ram too
<flocculant> lets not imply something then :p
<knome> you might need 2gb if you run firefox :P
<knome> and you currently need to support PAE
<flocculant> might?
<flocculant> ha 
<knome> you migh need to support something else
<knome> you get where i'm going
<knome> so it's implied that you *currently* need that space :P
<knome> we'll update as we go
<knome> if somebody installs, say, 14.04, and the free space requirement is 6GB there, well... too bad 
<knome> :P
<knome> i mean it's not like somebody goes to the hardware store and buys a HDD that barely fits the operating system anyway
<flocculant> of course not - anyway - 7Gb for now :p
<knome> :P
 * flocculant goes back to installing vm's 
<knome> hf
<flocculant> right - all done :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I forgot about this issue - can't remember if you said what to report upstream against now ... bug 1658772
<ubottu> bug 1658772 in thunar (Ubuntu) "xubuntu, thunar, desktop background" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1658772
<flocculant> got all tied up with notify and taskman and stuff
<flocculant> knome: \o/
<flocculant> zest resizing shows 7.2 so updated pad to 7.5
<flocculant> anyone seen the changes to libreoffice which are posited ? notebookbar layout 
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: zesty from Jan 26 uses an os prober that works fine..
<akxwi-dave> http://imgur.com/a/45JEV
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ack - it all went a bit pete tong around there
<flocculant> yea - 26th is when 1.73ubuntu1 landed - so we would likely still have had previous version when iso built
<flocculant> well did as the update landed 7 hours later :p
<knome> bbl
<akxwi-dave> i have the 386 iso  and teh 64 from 25th
<akxwi-dave> 386 from 25th
<akxwi-dave> 26th sorry
<akxwi-dave> for the 386
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: 25th should work 
<flocculant> our iso's should start to not work on the 27th
<flocculant> that would be the first build with os-prober not working
<flocculant> and s/25th/26th
<flocculant> if you check out os-prober's changelog you can see date and time 
<flocculant> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/o/os-prober/os-prober_1.73ubuntu3/changelog
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: might be worth dropping a line to xub-dev re os-pober - hopefully we have more testers than we think we do :p
<ochosi> flocculant: what's the latest status ofyour thunar testing?
<flocculant> ochosi: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/02/02/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t12:06
<flocculant> also comments from knoem re thunar 
<flocculant> since then I've done a bit more heavy shifting about of media files
<flocculant> I've had no crashes from thunar today using unit's ppa
<flocculant> pretty sure that is the same as the git version so not sure why crashes yesterday but not today
<flocculant> on the whole this is a whole lot better than it was last week :)
<ochosi> Unit193: so what's really in your PPA? :)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> I think it has added oomph 
<Unit193> A virus.
<Unit193> ochosi: It's the packaged version, plus the two upstream git commits (that we've been shipping), plus now these two patches.
<ochosi> flocculant: what about this one? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264#c173
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New]
<ochosi> also Unit193 ^
<ochosi> (he updated the patch again for you)
<ochosi> Unit193: or did you already include this version of the patch?
 * flocculant realises he'd set that bug report to not annoy him ...
<Unit193> ochosi: Nope.
<flocculant> ochosi: if ppa didn't include that patch I guess I can redo the thing I did which crashed it
<ochosi> k, please do so
<ochosi> or maybe Unit193 can update the PPA
<ochosi> i'd really love to push those patches to master...
<flocculant> which patch is that replacing though? 
<ochosi> the one from bugzilla
<ochosi> (in your instructions)
<ochosi> this one: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/attachment.cgi?id=6976
<ochosi> it just adds a single line as far as i can see
<ochosi> uhm, a little more than that
<ochosi> diff tricked me
<flocculant> ochosi: except change 6976 to 6978?
<Unit193> Or just wait a couple minutes for mine to build...
<ochosi> awesome, thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Also, since it seems to be done correctly, I could actually put it in xubuntu-staging...
<flocculant> Unit193: I'll wait a few minutes then :)
 * flocculant wanders away to find the kettle 
<ochosi> maybe knome can also re-test
<flocculant> genii: btw - the os-prober thing is only an issue if you've more than one install on a machine - it fails to see them
<knome> re-test for what specifically?
<flocculant> seems to have been a busy couple of weeks in here :)
<flocculant> knome: I guess that the *new* patch doesn't regress somehow
<knome> like new new?
<knome> i tested one today, is there a newer one around?
<ochosi> yup
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> oh, ok
<knome> do we get it in xubuntu-staging ppa?
<flocculant> one after I reported yesterday's crashing
<ochosi> well ideally it also fixes flocculant's crash
<Unit193> '1.6.10-2ubuntu3~16.10.0 '
<knome> nothing fixes flocculant crashing, but ok
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> knome: And yeah, just pushed it there now.
<knome> great
<flocculant> that I couldn't replicate today
<knome> do we need a test *today*?
<knome> i mean i'll have some slack time tomorrow for sure
<knome> and could do somewhat more extensive testing
<flocculant> I can run what I've done lately to test when I see the updates
<knome> i mean i can probably get a quick one in today
<flocculant> well apparently no upgrade of thunar for me 
<flocculant> oh great
<flocculant> now I've got broken packages
<knome> heh.
<Unit193> PPA built them a bit ago, but still hasn't published..
<Unit193> Nearly 10 minutes.
<knome> oh oops, i'm a bit behind updates on the laptop...
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging/+packages wait for the green checkmark.
<Unit193> flocculant: Should be good now.
<flocculant> Depends: thunar-data (= 1.6.10-2ubuntu2) but 1.6.10-2ubuntu3~17.04
<flocculant> not sure what's going on with ppa's atm - think I'll be purging and re-adding tomorrow
<flocculant> building thunar locally for now
<flocculant> and that's bizarre - don't get the gitversion in thunar about
<flocculant> redid it 
<flocculant> Unit193: still got issues with upgrading after adding staging ppa - update says there's something to upgrade, but upgrade doesn't :)
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - currently moving these iso's back and forth and at the same time it's doing the 1.txt to 1.txt.txt thing
<knome> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I crashed it 
<flocculant> it had moved them 3 times back and forth - 4th time it crashed
<flocculant> it alsop lost track (unsurprisingly) of whether 1.txt was 1.txt.txt or not 
<ochosi> so it's large files being moved back and forth that crashes it currently
<ochosi> can you try whether that also crashes nautilus? :>
<flocculant> largeish I guess 
<ochosi> what's the frequency of the moving btw?
<flocculant> how do you mean?
<ochosi> how quickly do you move those isos around?
<ochosi> i presume it's a terminal loop
<flocculant> for the test?
<ochosi> yeah
<flocculant> no - manually in thunar with menus
<flocculant> the txt to txt.txt was obviously - had sleep at 0.25 
<flocculant> so this is where I am
<flocculant> with yesterdays building it - I crashed it
<flocculant> with yesterdays Unit193 ppa version - it didn't crash
<flocculant> with todays building it - it crashed
<flocculant> and I had time to do more moving about with the ppa version
<flocculant> subjectively I would say that any of the 2 are better than before
<ochosi> ok, good to know
<ochosi> but still a little odd
<flocculant> yea
<ochosi> how the previous patch didn't crash and now it did
<ochosi> a little too erratic
<flocculant> no
<flocculant> building it from git - with either set of patches - crashed
<flocculant> installing from ppa (with the patches) didn't
<flocculant> unless that's your meaning :)
<ochosi> but i thought with the latest patch it crashed from the PPA as well
<flocculant> I can't install from there - dependency issues
<ochosi> oh :/
<ochosi> wonder why
<flocculant> *shrug*
<ochosi> it's just the thunar package itself
<Unit193> And I didn't change anything else.
<flocculant> Depends: thunar-data (= 1.6.10-2ubuntu2) but 1.6.10-2ubuntu3~17.04
<knome> Unit193's fauly.
<knome> fault too
<ochosi> anyway, please test the package again tomorrow or whenever you can to see whether thtat fixes the iso moving
<ochosi> and then comment in the upstream bugreport
<flocculant> the ppa package? 
<Unit193> I pulled it from the x-stag one.
<flocculant> we are talking about xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging here I assume
<flocculant> Unit193: ^^
<Unit193> Ayup.
<flocculant> ok - just thought best to double check on that :)
<ochosi> yeah, please test again with the ppa package whenever you can
<flocculant> mmk
<ochosi> thanks a bunch!
<flocculant> I'm going to crash now though :)
<flocculant> night all 
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<flocculant> ochosi: whatever I manage to do tomorrow - I'll comment on upstream bug 
<flocculant> meant to ping r_a about lock tonight too - that'll have to wait :)
<ochosi> okeydokey, night flocculant!
<Unit193> ochosi: So to sum up: The package has: 029012f4c39d9d3d9ae617491a69f76f54a4192f, 77cf6ec3a3969589a4e9a8beea6a122b7dbcc2a0, 9c6dbb1dae7074e7713f43438f471d75c823a0db, f9e054872c7ddc065cd4008bb9e8ce1d364aeeed but does not have cb3a2343128d6eacf6338d485b7d671f291071e6, febb41736615d76d73bf8156290296e3de49349b, 9578e0dec5cee473222cb813b43de31067c604e2, 79fdf25f4200015c1808f7bbdfa3b3985381eb40.
<knome> o.o
 * Unit193 dots both eyes.
<knome> ouch
<Unit193> http://piratepad.be/p/thunar-bugs
<Unit193> Status update given to Corsac.
<knome> Unit193, can you remind me what we're pending on again with core/base?
<Unit193> I don't even know at this point.  cdimage/the ubuntu live-config fork/something else?
<knome> me neither...
<Unit193> There's the simple one, the python one, and the bash one.
<knome> i could look at the logs
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-03
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Any progress on packageset?  Thought about splitting the icons out to src:elementary-xfce-themes, binary:elementary-xfce-icon-theme (or since libreoffice-style-elementary is no longer in there, just icon for src too)?
<bluesabre> Unit193, haven't pinged about the packageset. Totally in favor of splitting the icons out
<Unit193> I can't remember the third. \o/
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193, what's used for starting an upgrade to development version? "update-manager -d" doesn't seem to cut it to get me to zesty
<Unit193> do-release-upgrade -d is the terminal one, all else fails go with sed and apt.
<bluesabre> Indeed, that seems to do something
<Unit193> bluesabre: You may have to make sure you're on the 'normal' releases in /etc/update-manager/
<bluesabre> Upgrade started
<bluesabre> Should I go offline for a few days, I encountered a critical bug :D
<knome> well that's better than ochosi traveling and disapperaing for two weeks
 * knome hides
<Unit193> No we may have kind of fixed the thunar one! :P
<knome> also, typo
<bluesabre> I'm looking forward to possibly finally seeing that darn bug fixed
<knome> each patch has practically 50/50 chances of doing that
<bluesabre> though, I've grown really fond of nautilus these past few days
<knome> either it fixes or doesn't fix :P
 * knome slaps bluesabre with a pile of turd
<knome> no nautilus :P
<bluesabre> ew
<knome> i'm sorry
<knome> it was the first thing that came into my mind
<knome> when thinking of nautilus
<knome> (:
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Meh, he can use whatever he wants.
<knome> :P
<Unit193> I use thunar, and not really any crashing. :P
<Unit193> ...OK so I use thunar every so often to open stuff, or see thumbnails, but not really.
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I rename a lot of files
<bluesabre> x.x
<knome> i don't use any other file manager than thunar
<knome> it's gotten better than it was even some time ago
<Unit193> mv/cp/etc
<knome> well yes but that's not a file manager
<Unit193> It's what I seem to use. :3
<Unit193> mc?
<knome> eww
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> eww
<Unit193> I don't use it.
<knome> that would have been an instaban
<knome> juuust kidding
<bluesabre> ... or is he
<knome> yeah
<knome> i do sometimes type mc when i mean to write mv though :P
<knome> time to go to bed. nighty!
<bluesabre>  nighty knome
<Unit193> apt-cacher-ng can make updates fun. :P
<Unit193> Certainly makes pbuilder nicer.
<bluesabre> That'd be nice
<bluesabre> pbuilder is not fun currently
<Unit193> eatmydata+acng cached.
<bluesabre> Up and running with Zesty :D
 * Unit193 puts some Zest on bluesabre.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Don't forget to report it.
<bluesabre> Unit193, thanks :)
<bluesabre> nighty all
<flocculant> I think I've got the ppa thunar now - I forgot I'd dpkg -i those *thunar bits the other day :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: I commented on the parole bug - not quite sure why you'd think I didn't have all the codecs I could find installed - but I posted what is here :)
<flocculant> also btw (and perhaps linked) system chokes on upgrading to the parole we've got in staging 
<flocculant> lets see how it does with copying the same 22Gb to 2 different places at the same time
<flocculant> and changing those 10 .txt files back and forth
<flocculant> cos it's not crashed on me in the last 25 minutes
<flocculant> terminal on the other hand crashed running ssh to here :p
<flocculant> ochosi: crashing still - posting to upstream 
<flocculant> hard to know what normal usage of a file manager is - but I'd say 'anything you happened to want to do with it when you wanted to do it'
<flocculant> that said *I* wouldn't normally be copying large files from destination to 2 seperate locations at the same time
<flocculant> all in all in my normal usage - this latest 2 versions of thunar look much better than the repo version
<flocculant> Unit193: looking at that list of what the thunar ppa has - I see the 9c6ddb patch - does it have the one from the bug report https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264#c173 ?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New]
<Unit193> flocculant: Yes that's listed, you've got the commit hash at the top of the attachment, I've got that listed.
<bluesabre> flocculant, I only suggested it since parole actually works for me... really hard to debug something I can't reproduce
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea I realise that - not sure what to say there - doesn't appear to have any confirmation - perhaps keep an eye on it and see
<flocculant> also don't appear to be able to reproduce on live now so ...
<flocculant> Unit193: ok - thanks just wanted to be sure
<flocculant> os-prober fix landed now
<flocculant> well - landed in proposed at the moment :p
<akxwi-dave> good will get that tested as soon as its up
<flocculant> you can grab it from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+source/os-prober if you really want to
<pleia2> community funding request granted for another year of our linode :)
<flocculant> pleia2: awesome :)
<knome> great
<flocculant> ochosi: and a crash just moving 1 file 
<bluesabre> pleia2, awesome!
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> thi sthunar thing is driving me nuts :p
<flocculant> I'm going to start correlating crashes in thunar against weather patterns ...
<Unit193> flocculant: The master thunar fuzzer.
<flocculant> ha
<Unit193> Amusingly, neither Corsac nor I really hit it. :P
<knome> thunar freezer?
<flocculant> Unit193: hit what - the bug?
<flocculant> I'm at loss now as to whether it's even worth testing it more to be honest
<bluesabre> so, everything was fine yesterday, and terrible today?
<flocculant> bluesabre: not sure I tested yesterday anymore 
<flocculant> I know I crashed it on the 1st and today :p
<flocculant> I did a bunch of things earlier and it was fine - then ~ hour ago it crashed moving a file
<flocculant> it failed this morning too if the time stamp on bugzilla works
<bluesabre> :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: these new patches appear to be better - but perhaps they aren't helping 
<flocculant> the make 1.txt etc and mv to 1.txt.txt and back appears ok - I ran that on it's own for ages 
<flocculant> at the end of the day - if a file manager can't move a file without crashing it's not a whole lot of use :(
<flocculant> bluesabre: to summarise - I've built with 2 different sets of patches and used Unit193's ppa version of one of them
<flocculant> up until it crashing moving the 1 file - it 'seemed' to not like detaching tabs while it was copying/moving files
<bluesabre> I see
<flocculant> bluesabre: I can test it - but it doesn't seem to be worth it if it gets nowhere :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, fair enough :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-04
<flocculant> bluesabre: installed aptitude in an effort to find out why parole from staging refuses to upgrade for me :)
<flocculant> parole : Depends: gstreamer1.0-clutter which is a virtual package and is not provided by any available package
<flocculant> only gs-clutter package I can find on zesty is gstreamer1.0-clutter-3.0 which is installed
<flocculant> grabbed from xenial etc etc - just letting you know :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: btw - prober works, encrypt now works too \o/ oem fails
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<knome> huh
<knome> good to hear at least something works ;)
<flocculant> :)
<akxwi-dave> ahh good.. just zsynced and testesd both booted  :-)
 * flocculant thinks it's about time to do a new hardware install
<bluesabre> flocculant, aha
<flocculant> bluesabre: indeed :)
<flocculant> though no difference to the issue I see 
<bluesabre> hm
<flocculant> which I would ignore if I was anyone else :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> I can only replicate it with some mkv files - which is just meh
<bluesabre> yeah, mkv is just a container and it can have different codecs
<flocculant> bluesabre: on the thunar front - I'll wait and see of pgkos says anything on the bug - not much I can do now there
<flocculant> ack
<ochosi> greetz from fosdem
<ochosi> it's raining cats and dogs like every year
<flocculant> ochosi: :)
<flocculant> they should move it to summer or the tropics :p
<flocculant> having yet another go at crashing thunar :p
<ochosi> good luck with that!
<flocculant> ochosi: if it does - then I'm going to give up testing this setup I think
<flocculant> I'll comment on bug in that case 
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - ok so for 30 minutes it's been doing the txt to txt.txt thing - and copying 30Gb from an origin to 2 different disks - as well as copying 50Gb fom one of those destinations back to the one it's also copying from
<flocculant> and it was fine
<flocculant> just had a thought - doing it all again ...
<ochosi> flocculant: kewl, sounds not too bad
<flocculant> ochosi: just remembered that in between all these tests I had turned off thumbnails - so redoing it with that on
<bluesabre> flocculant, cool cool
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - ok - so I've now got ~100Gb flying around 3 drives - when this is done I will post finally on the bug report 
<flocculant> actually 130Gb
<bluesabre> nice
<flocculant> bluesabre: only as long as I'm careful removing things from where they shouldn't be :D
<flocculant> right 
<flocculant> it's hung
<flocculant> and gdb isn't responding either
<bluesabre> boo
<flocculant> bluesabre: but possible thing happened previous to me craashing it - I turned show thumbnails on 
<flocculant> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12264#c178
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 12264 in core "Crash when renaming single file in folder" [Major,New]
<flocculant> and I added 179 which details what moved and what didn't
<flocculant> of the data moved around - 50Gb was media that shows a thumbnail - whether that's relevant or not I don't know 
<bluesabre> flocculant, now seeing that I can't browse folders in the desktop settings... how straaaange
<bluesabre> I think you mentioned this recently
<flocculant> bluesabre:yea - bug # I think
<bluesabre> I don't even know what could cause this
<bluesabre> It seems to be an image chooser instead of a folder chooser
<flocculant> oh I remember now - didn't really know what to report against - and didn't get any help deciding :p
<flocculant> yea - that sums it up completely :)
<flocculant> definitely ok prior to zesty
<bluesabre> I might actually be a gtk bug
<bluesabre>  libgtk2.0-0 | 2.24.30-4ubuntu2         | yakkety          | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
<bluesabre>  libgtk2.0-0 | 2.24.30-4ubuntu3         | yakkety-updates  | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
<bluesabre>  libgtk2.0-0 | 2.24.31-1ubuntu1         | zesty            | amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
<flocculant> I did wonder at the time I think - then got waylaid with other stuffs - pretty sure I was talking about this while notifyd and other things happened
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> and then thunar :D
<bluesabre> D:
<flocculant> someone 'new' brought it up I'm pretty sure of that 
<bluesabre> I'll try tracking it down in a VM
<bluesabre> but I'm leaning towards libgtk2
<flocculant> good luck :)
<flocculant> really need somewhere to put these - 'I found issue - not sure what it is - where it should be reported - what against' type things or they get lost in the mix
<bluesabre> Yeah
<flocculant> for the time being perhaps blueprint whiteboard - qa rather than dev
<flocculant> once it's been dealt with and reported it can go on bug blueprint 
<flocculant> bluesabre: so we're moving back to the default position of the last couple of cycles - blame gtk3 :p
<bluesabre> flocculant, actually, its blame gtk2 :D
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> new one ::D
<flocculant> re the somewhere to put  the things we need to confirm/check etc - might see if there could be some freeform box type thing that the dev.tracker magician can conjour up :)
<flocculant> if not I think falling back to qa whiteboard till confirmed at least is somewhere people can edit/read simply enough
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: any thoughts on that ^^ (from ~15:51)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-sensors-plugin 1.2.97 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-sensors-plugin-1-2-97-released-tp48832.html (by Fabian Nowak)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built.
<Unit193> (New whisker in PPA.)
<knome> shedding those hairs everywhere
<Unit193> Speaking of which, yeah I need a trim. >_>
<knome> ;)
<knome> it's now logged..
<Unit193> That I keep my beard trimmed?  Good. :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-02-05
<Unit193> bluesabre: So you ended up not going with enabling the glade support in libxfce4ui?
<bluesabre> Unit193, was easier to just follow debian
<Unit193> Yeeeep.
<ochosi> glade support is quite nice though..
<bluesabre> Yeeeep.
<Unit193> I had a deb of it. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193, feel free to upload it to the PPA
<bluesabre> periodic gtk grumble... apparently system trays are deprecated, https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkStatusIcon.html#gtk-status-icon-new
<bluesabre> "gtk_status_icon_new has been deprecated since version 3.14 and should not be used in newly-written code. Use notifications."
<Unit193> > tint2
<bluesabre> the added progress bars in gnome-software on zesty makes it a much improved software center
<Unit193> Oh, well it's not on here.
<Unit193> And my DNS was broken until I removed libnss-resolve (well, since it was upgrading I just removed the so, then purged it later.)  That system uses resolvconf fine, so just libnss-resolve was evil.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Good news, glade support in zesty+ is good, but the package wouldn't be backportable.
<bluesabre> Unit193, that's A-OK (though curious why)
<bluesabre> LibreOffice 5.3 with (non-default) Notebookbar, for those interested, http://imgur.com/a/FMoqV
<flocculant> bluesabre: clock stopped?
<flocculant> bluesabre: also - did you notice missing icons in lo5.3
<Unit193> bluesabre: It moved to multiarch.
<Unit193> Still thinking the "proper" thing to do here though is make libxfce4ui-glade..
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3/+packages/ - http://paste.openstack.org/show/TqsJyjN3j1lHsFJiZSpi/ fwiw.
<Unit193> (I first put it in -dev, but that became pretty clearly improper. :P )
<Unit193> ochosi: â libxfce4ui-glade for you.
<ochosi> bluesabre: yuck, those separators don't look nice at all
<bluesabre> ochosi, indeed, but it is labeled as an experimental feature, and I imagine that's one reason
<bluesabre> Unit193, aha, cool :D
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> Unit193, I think it'd be fine in the -dev package
<bluesabre> flocculant, hola
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right, but then you have to add ${misc:shlibs}, bringing in some interesting deps for a -dev package, and then debhelper will also like to make a dbgsym package for -dev.
<bluesabre> Unit193, ah, phooey :P
<Unit193> Kind of showing this isn't how it expects, aye.  And, found another thing that used -glade. (As I'd seen before)  Not many packages ship a glade module... :/
<Unit193> bluesabre: The debdiff is so small though!
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> If you like it I can push it to the PPA, if not I can fix it.
<bluesabre> Unit193, I'm not picky, feel free to push
<Unit193> I'm not awake, good to have review. :P
<bluesabre> fair enough :)
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: i'm fine with either approach, i just want my glade module packaged and installable ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: Is now.
<ochosi> nnnice
<Unit193> ...So the desktop background selection, that doesn't allow you to select directories, only images.  You have to type the full path now.
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - I noticed a while ago - bluesabre noticed yesterday 
<Unit193> flocculant: Before the VM re-install, I used xfconf to set it. >_>
<bluesabre> I suspect its gtk2, which had a small version bump in zesty
<Unit193> I noticed you saying something along those lines.
<Unit193> Simple test..
<ochosi> must be gtk2, nothing changed in xfdesktop and it's using a standard gtk open file/folder dialog
<Unit193> Debian 818182 was fun.
<ubottu> Debian bug 818182 in libgtk2.0-0 "libgtk2.0-0: Added support for randr 1.5 in gtk2.0 v2.24.30 breaks Xfce4 screen config" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/818182
<Unit193> bluesabre: Downgrading fixes it.
<Unit193> Looked at Debian, Ubuntu, and GTK bugtrackers.
 * flocculant never notices those dual monitor things
<ochosi> flocculant: as you have been testing taskman
<ochosi> have you ever tested showing/hiding some columns?
<ochosi> i just noticed now (and this must be a long-standing issue) that it's totally messed up
<ochosi> wondering though whether i messed it up, so maybe better to double-check
<ochosi> humm, something is crappy there with changing the column order, that seems to mess things up...
<knome> hello simon
<ochosi> hey pasi
<knome> how was fosdem?
<ochosi> awesome
<knome> did you happen to bump to ubuntu people?
<ochosi> unfortunately not, i tried to meet up with laney, but somehow i didn't manage to find him
<ochosi> met m8t and Corsac though
<knome> h
<knome> ah too
<knome> i know at least czxzxszsxzxajkowski was there too
<knome> whatever the spelling is
<knome> pleia2 will know :P
<knome> oh and she just popped in!
<pleia2> czajkowski :)
<pleia2> I am going to food now ;)
<ochosi> yeah, i wasn't hanging out in the desktop space much
<knome> bon appetit
<knome> i don't know if she was in the desktop space either...
<ochosi> mostly the devops topics (as my travel was paid for by $dayjob)
<flocculant> ochosi: as I said - rarely use it - looked ok to me - didn't know you cold move columns either
<flocculant> that said it all appears to work here doing that
<ochosi> yeah, that messes it up somehow
<ochosi> need to check how exactly to reproduce it
<ochosi> reordering columns, restarting, hiding/showing and reordering or something seemed to break it
<ochosi> not a dramatic bug, but still
<flocculant> well - 1 mobed column stayed put, another moved one - reverted to original position 
<flocculant> added and removed - stayed in the new config
<flocculant> talk more tomorrow on that if you like - off now :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-29
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r543 Add base styles for Chrome/ium (Fixes #211)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<flocculant> if anyone has been seeing me and the mysterious 32 bit fail to boot - seems it's a kernel issue to do with meltdown fixes and appearing if hardware has iommu 
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-30
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<bluesabre> knome: so...... wp contest?
<tracker5> hi
<knome> bluesabre, ack, soon
<flocculant> knome: what freeze works against this? uif? 
<knome> don't think it's even that...
<knome> more likely final freeze for inclusion
<knome> i'll try to finalize the thing tomorrow or thursday
<knome> but as you have seen.. it's very close to being ready :)
<Unit193> xfdesktop still needs patched.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r544 Also build gnome styles for the dark variant (Fixes #212)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-31
<flocculant> xubuntu-meta bugs piling up :p /me at least confirmed the latest one
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-01
<bluesabre> flocculant: suppose I'll make my way through those this weekend
<bluesabre> new menulibre release sometime this week, will get that one packaged
<bluesabre> added support for MATE, Budgie, and KDE this week
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack and woohoo :)
<flocculant> seen the monthly update cadence proposal on the dev discuss list?
<bluesabre> flocculant: think I missed that
<flocculant> likely asleep when it started on the list - I saw it this morning, just seen when it was posted :p
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-02
<ochosi> pre-fosdem greetings everyone!
<flocculant> :)
<knome> hullo ochosi 
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-03
<Unit193> bluesabre: How about xfdesktop?
<Unit193> https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/lightdm/commit/6015bce25f241e7580c03594d846769f8236232f
<Unit193> Wait, I still haven't uploaded libxfce4ui? 0_o
<flocculant> knome: was looking at the contest dashboard vote bit, bit confused at what happens if someone decides to change vote
<flocculant> when first opened vote buttons are green/red 
<flocculant> once voted buttons turn grey - I'd have expected the one you voted on to turn grey not all
<flocculant> if someone decides to change - all the buttons are grey, I'd have expected ones not voted on to still be green/red
<flocculant> slickymaster: one of the main budgie guys is fossfreedom on irc 
<flocculant> wrong channel :D
<bluesabre> good morning!
<bluesabre> Unit193: thinking of "elementary-xfce: Split packaging for distribution improvements"... what do you propose for this?
<bluesabre> I'm thinking now, elementary-xfce-icon-theme package with the generic distributor logo, and xubuntu-artwork replacing with the xubuntu logo with update-alt
<ochosi> yup, that's also how i understood that
<flocculant> hi bluesabre ochosi 
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<bluesabre> probably going to do a xubuntu-artwork upload with the old packaging before doing the split packaging
<bluesabre> new packages, sponsorship, and the like take a while to settle
<flocculant> bluesabre: you booted the iso lately? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: booted it today
<bluesabre> double network icon, or something else?
<flocculant> was it interminably long to desktop for you?
<bluesabre> took forever to load ubiquity
<bluesabre> I did notice that
<flocculant> re double network icon - restarting panel or network service no longer appears to do the trick if it happens - at least for me
<flocculant> bluesabre: excellent (sort of), getting more reports elsewhere now - thought it was me and/or local issue :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> bbiab
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r329 Prep for 18.04.1, Bump elementary-xfce to 0.10 and packaging... (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r330 Upload xubuntu-artwork 18.04.1 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> :)
<slickymaster> busy bee
<flocculant> ;0
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> greybird-gtk-theme and xubuntu-artwork uploaded to bionic, should show up in a few hours
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre!
#xubuntu-devel 2018-02-04
<Unit193> bluesabre: And I didn't respond because, well...Basically slacker.  But yes you got confirmation that was indeed the correct approach.  I think Debian has done some alternatives like that, actually.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-28
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Removed obsolete configuration file: etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfprint.xm... @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=75602b97bf0b9d3ceed209f4c02b2eb59308e489 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Removed obsolete file: etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/autostart/xfce4-tips-autostart.desktop (LP: #1805005) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=df0e96a86772807f33d54a8c8d63e20fbb6aceb4 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Add shortcut for xfce4-screensaver region capture (Shift+Print) (LP: #1812234) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=b09dfee85257be6b4ac6871c6848e8b82fbce2d4 (by Sean Davis)
<JackFrost> saver or shooter?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Enable startup-notify in Thunar's uca.xml (LP: #1794118) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=1a4ef5247056d1ee19177a7aaf764ed87f77bc0a (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Replace invalid macroEnabled mimetypes (LP: #1802582) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=2e9a52d15baac266935bc06bdf59b4b9f9005e64 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Add Terminal (F4) and Find (Primary+Shift+F) shortcuts to Thunar (LP: #1793395) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=e74c3ef24752b4bb1096bd3cd4b15c0f23d72280 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> JackFrost: ah, shooter :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Fix typo xfce4-screensaver -> xfce4-screenshooter @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=0e57d42fb0c7dc7743d84473d99af51798814fbc (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Remove invalid x-scheme-handler/file handler (LP: #1778069) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=3cd679e4c3d5efeb0e6d21027e072554037b244f (by Sean Davis)
<brainwash> bluesabre: any questions regarding the two remaining x-d-s reports?
<bluesabre> brainwash: nope, just had to go to work and ran out of time this morning
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-29
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Hmm, did you see Debian #914025?
<ubottu> Debian bug 914025 in mugshot "mugshot: mushot raises a Python exception at launch time" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/914025
<JackFrost> thunar 1.8.4-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<JackFrost> light-locker 1.8.0-3 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) (Debian: #892290, #920666)
<ubottu> Debian bug 892290 in light-locker "light-locker: at unlock, crash with: arguments to dbus_message_new_method_call() were incorrect" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/892290
<ubottu> Debian bug 920666 in light-locker "light-locker: Please include upstream README in the packaged docs" [Minor,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/920666
<bluesabre> JackFrost: yeah, I saw that one. It's resolved, just debian bugs are a pain to interact with
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Set GNOME/GTK 3 dconf keys for fonts (LP: #1769774) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=f701dcc96b9b12969f0e0734b4952c5933a663b1 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Set default inactivity mode to Suspend on AC and battery (LP: #1768038) @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=b344d4751d83c6ccca1d9798e2e967d67a1cf0e6 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release xubuntu-default-settings 19.04 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=a69e56eead85f9b3ba67b55f555373194b65f3a9 (by Sean Davis)
<JackFrost> bluesabre: Indeed, noticed it was fixed.  You don't have to interact, just upload a new one, thus closing it. :>
<JackFrost> (It's what I do. >_>)
<brainwash> bluesabre: great job
<brainwash> bluesabre: no report for this one, but what do you think about this? https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=12776
<brainwash> comment #4
<brainwash> I could not find an explanation for this, and no other distro or upstream has this
<brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/tree/settings/xfce4-session.xml
<JackFrost> Well dang, I found http://paste.openstack.org/show/TLYneYykydfIBinpmkKI in my xubuntu-docs working dir..
<flocculant> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2019-02-02
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1787989
<ubottu> bug 1787989 in adwaita-icon-theme (Ubuntu) "adwaita icon them not found" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1787989
<brainwash> comment #6
<brainwash> what do you think?
<brainwash> oh well
<brainwash> https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/25ff77
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-27
<krytarik> Huh, I've found a few HTTP links on <https://xubuntu.org/contact/> :3  (back to the website and also to Twitter)
<knome> (:
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<ochosi> JackFrost: ^ :)
<JackFrost> ochosi: Hmm?
<krytarik> I guess the question is do you have an extra hilight on your usual nick? >_>
<JackFrost> Yeah but I don't see any pings.
<krytarik> The meeting reminder.
<JackFrost> Ah, that's not a ping, it's a notice. :>  But nothing on the agenda, sooo no need for one.
<krytarik> I think we just want to make sure are getting annoyed similar to those who aren't regularly flipping nicks. >_<
<JackFrost> Heeey, I only flip nicks a few times a year! :>
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-28
<astraljava> That's highly regularly compared to one who has done it nonce in 14 years (or so). :D
<JackFrost> What can I say?  I'm a sucker for the season. :3
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-29
<astraljava> :D
<Eickmeyer[m]> bluesabre: Would you mind joining us in #ubuntustudio-devel? We have some questions related to systemd/xfce interaction.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-31
<bluesabre> Looks like we ran the last wallpaper contest from mid-February to mid-March, https://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-18-04-community-wallpaper-contest/
<JackFrost> I can't do artwork things, how can I help?
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.12 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-12-released-tp57199.html (by Andre Miranda)
<bluesabre> Honestly, I'm not sure if much is required at the beginning other than turning a new contest on and announcing it
<JackFrost> sgt-puzzles 20191231.79a5378-1 uploaded by Ben Hutchings (Closes Debian #925078, #925824)
<ubottu> Debian bug 925078 in sgt-puzzles "sgt-puzzles: Please update package from fresh upstream." [Wishlist,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/925078
<ubottu> Debian bug 925824 in src:sgt-puzzles "sgt-puzzles: ftbfs with GCC-9" [Serious,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/925824
<bluesabre> nice
<bluesabre> I have a lot of nice updates staged for the launcher too, suppose I should release that this weekend, https://git.launchpad.net/sgt-launcher/log/?h=master
<bluesabre> Ooh, and I even have 1 new translation available https://translations.launchpad.net/sgt-launcher
<astraljava> bluesabre: Hi, what's the status of that screensaver fix batch?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-01
<bluesabre>  astraljava, not quite there yet. I have a patch in master, but it seems to have some odd side-effects for some folks.
<flocculant> bluesabre JackFrost knome ochosi pleia2 slickymaster - well, not been about much, though I am for 1 more 6 month cycle running the dev version, once it's gone to release I'll be pegging back to LTS only
<flocculant> was fun for the most part ;)
<flocculant> so I'll say my last good bye :)
<knome> o/
<knome> thanks for everything
#xubuntu-devel 2020-02-02
<JackFrost> bluesabre: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/02/msg00000.html might be worth a read.
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks, it was great working with you :)
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks for everything!
