#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-11
<moimart> tko: you are fast
<moimart> :)
<moimart> tko_: :)
<tko_> yes, had to download xchat first
<moimart> you are writing with the onscreen kb, right?
<tko_> can't figure why wireless doesn't work on  my laptop (ip ok, connecting anywhere not)
<tko_> and loving it!
<moimart> what ssid are you using?
<moimart> im using this metrofi-free-* crao
<tko_> WildPalmsHotel on both
<moimart> metrofi-free-wild-palms
<moimart> that's the one
<moimart> I just plugged in the converter
<moimart> laptop didnt explode though :)
<tko_> any update on tomorrow?
<moimart> not yet
<moimart> it seems mdz is away
<moimart> bobux: are you around?
<moimart> robr: ?
<moimart> tko_: no luck 
<moimart> now you are using the laptop?
<tko_> yes, got one ap working
<moimart> well, it seems they all are away
<tko_> we'll just have to crash the party, then
<moimart> yeah
<moimart> kinda hungry right now
<tko_> yeah.. meet you in the lobby?
<moimart> ok
<moimart> ill be there in 5 mins
<moimart> mdz: ping
<moimart> bobux: ping
<moimart> robr: ping
<moimart> tko_: you around?
<tko_> kind of crashing already, but still
<moimart> Mithrandir: ?
<tko_> moimart, I don't think I'll be waking up any time soon tomorrow %-)
<moimart> tko_: so... what time then?
<moimart> tko_: im gonna go to sleep in a few minutes
<moimart> do i call you tomorrow?
<lool> mdz: Will you upload your slide at some place afterwards?
<daniels> tko_: you're in san francisco?
<tigert> he blogged of being somewhere far away
<daniels> yeah
<daniels> hm, so i guess we won't be seeing him this week
<tko_> daniels, tigert: yep, I'm in SF
<daniels> tko_: ah, nice one
<tko_> btw, it's cold in here :-] 
<daniels> really? it's been like 27C in hki
<tko_> they say it'll be 24/13 today but at least yesterday around 6pm it didn't feel like 20+
<tko_> and yes, it is weird to say it's more warm in finland than california :)
<beattie_> SFO never really warms up, cold ocean currents 
<lool> Seems like seb128 didn't get enough mail to read; /me shovers some thousands mail towards seb128 
<lool> seb128: WB!
<seb128> hey lool
<seb128> lool: I've enough mails, going to take the week to catch up probably ;)
<seb128> lool: I noticed you used the GTK+ patch in Debian and bumped the shlib then
<daniels> lool: don't give him mail, just reassign bugs
<lool> seb128: Correct; and even then, it triggerred some discussion with sjoerd who was worried about ABI breakages! (but I only uploaded to experimental)
<seb128> hey daniels
<seb128> lool: I didn't update the shlibs in Ubuntu on purpose, just FYI
<seb128> I don't think it's required to update the shlibs only for a maemo specific symbol
<lool> seb128: How will Maemo apps get a proper dependency?
<lool> s/Maemo/maemo
<daniels> lool: shlibs.local
<lool> daniels: Mulitplied by the number of packages
<seb128> lool: specifying the GTK version they required
<seb128> there is not that many packages using that symbol, is there?
<seb128> Mithrandir said that was ok
<daniels> lool: sure
<seb128> s/required/required
<lool> Perhaps not, yet I can't tell; what's wrong with bumping shlibs?
<seb128> require
<seb128> bump 10 minor version over what is required for a non official symbol
<lool> It's less of a problem in Ubuntu because you don't have testing migration; but in Debian, it's really easy to have an app transition faster than Gtk
<lool> seb128: And what's the consequence?
<seb128> not much
<seb128> but adding a Depend on libhildon-something is as ugly as bumping the shlibs for it
<lool> Plus, Gtk upstream adds symbols pretty frequently at the start of release cycles, and we're close to the start of a new one
<seb128> and we decided on the first one
<lool> seb128: Okay; for some reason, I didn't see this discussion (I tried following #ubuntu-mobile, ubuntu-mobile@luc and ubuntu-devel@luc), and it seemed the "safe choice" for Debian
<lool> (I don't find bumping shlibs when you add symbols ugly BTW; quite the contrary)
<seb128> I think we discussed it on #ubuntu-devel
<seb128> sorry for not mentioning it somewhere, anyway that's quite a small change
<seb128> well, you make every deb built on gutsy require the gutsy GTK+ where the feisty one would just work
<lool> Arf; that's perhaps true *right now* and for gutsy/feisty; I challenge this holds true between any other release and in one month
<lool> You simply can't expect binary compatibility between two Ubuntu or Debian releases; you've got to rebuild C programs against the target distribution
<seb128> lool: well right, doesn't really matter anyway
<lool> Yeah, we wont have to debate any such stuff if dpkg-gensymbols gets deployed
<daniels> lool: 'simply can't expect binary compatibility': if the dependencies are satisfied and the program doesn't work, the packaging is fundamentally destroyed, full stop.
<daniels> lool: partial upgrades always have been and always will be a supported feature, and regressing that is unacceptable
<lool> daniels: Sure, and in this respect the choice of shlibs holds less risk to break stuff on partial upgrades since it's not remotely possible that someone forgets bumping a dep
<lool> daniels: What I meant with binary compatibility is that we do not make any promise that you will be able to build a package on $next_release and install it in $previous_release; I didn't want to imply that dependencies are not enough
<lool> And even would there be no dependency issue in installing a package built somewhere else in the target release, we still prefer building in the target release and not take the risk that anything breaks silently
<moimart> mdz: bobux: are you around?
<moimart> robr: ?
<moimart> Mithrandir: ?
<tko_> anyone at google around?
<moimart> re
<moimart> Mithrandir: ?
<mdz_> agoliveira: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/maemo-af-desktop-l10n/
<bspencer_> mdz_,  hey
<mdz_> bspencer_: libgnomevfs2-0 should be what you're looking for
<mdz_> bspencer_: by the way, hildon-desktop should be in gutsy in another hour or two
<moimart> lucasr: hi :)
<lucasr> moimart, hei
<lucasr> moimart, how is it going?
<moimart> fine man
<moimart> everything cool so far :)
<lucasr> moimart, is it 14h there?
<moimart> yeah right
<moimart> how is everything over there?
<daniels> lucasr: what's a havaiana?
<lucasr> daniels, hei!
<lucasr> daniels, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havaianas
<lucasr> :-)
<lucasr> daniels, that picture is an havaianas ad
<moimart> havaianas are really famous in spain :)
<daniels> lucasr: moi! we have something very very similar (generically, 'thongs' -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thong_sandals), but not proper havaianas.  off to bed now though, see you later.
<lucasr> daniels, see you!
<lucasr> moimart, hey, could you create your gnome bugzilla account?
<Mithrandir> moimart: why do you keep pinging me?
<tko_> Mithrandir, we were trying to catch someone for more info on ubuntu mobile meeting.. nevermind now, we found it
<lucasr> Mithrandir, don't you like pings? ping = love! :-)
<tko_> everybody pings lucasr 
<tko_> lucasr, btw, can you announce the hildon-list ?
<lucasr> tko_, yep
<lucasr> tko_, I announced for the hildon developers already
<lucasr> tko_, but I should do a community announcement
<moimart> lucasr: I created with my nokia email but i cannot access right now though
<lucasr> moimart, ok
<moimart> Mithrandir: tko_ and I were trying to contact somebody for the meeting :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-12
<Mithrandir> moimart: well, I'm not in MTV, so pinging me is kinda useless. :-)
<moimart> Mithrandir: I didn't know, I just thought so :)
<lool> Weird; I didn't see any changed content in the commit mail from cjwatson
<cjwatson> lool: the one that just removed *.o files?
<cjwatson> lool: right, that was actually a bug in the source package construction, not visible in bzr; I was just syncing up the changelog
<cjwatson> lool: would you be able to test a hildon-desktop change for me? I've fixed it to build properly on amd64, but I'm not in a position to test that I haven't broken anything else
<cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/tmp/hildon-desktop.64bit.diff
<cjwatson> failing that, review from somebody who knows glib/gtk well wouldn't hurt
<inz> Looks good to me at least ;)
<vikramb11> no activity ?
<lool> cjwatson: Oh ok
<lool> cjwatson: I'm not in a position to test either; I don't have gutsy bootstrapped anywhere
<lool> cjwatson: gsize changes look okay; GINT_TO_POINTER/GPOINTER_TO_INT stuff looks ok
<lool> Ew, the upstream version reusing hildon_desktop_home_item_set_is_background() was a bit crude
<cjwatson> ~[A 
<cjwatson> (sorry)
* lool pondered whether that was a smiley
<cjwatson> vikramb11: five minutes isn't long to wait :)
<cjwatson> no, it was local lag and repeated reattach attempts causing screen and irssi to get a bit confused
<cjwatson> I think perhaps I'll commit those hildon-desktop changes but not upload
<cjwatson> I don't want to screw things up for folks at the sprint
<cjwatson> lool: thanks
<lool> The thanks are to you fox fixing it :-P
<inz> Is there any (easy) way to test "64-bit compilation" without a 64-bit machine?
<cjwatson_> inz: not that I can think of
<inz> cjw, then I guess I need to either steal my gf's machine or go to the hardware store ;)
<lool> inz: Perhaps qemu?
<lool> Hmm unfortunately, casper fails to find the gutsy amd64 CD when run in qemy
<lool> qemu-system-x86_64 even
<lool> Not specific to amd64 it seems  :-/
<cjwatson> lool: specific to qemu?
<lool> cjwatson: I think so
<lool> And vmware wasn't updated yet for 2.6.22; /me gives a try to kvm to get a gutsy env
<lool> Module doesn't build; ah
<lool> kvm seems based on qemu; I doubt it will do any better
<lool> cjwatson: Ah, you can't boot on USB and IDE won't work with Ubuntu's kernel, but you can boot on IDE cdrom and pass the cdrom image as an USB disk at the same time: casper finds it   \o/
<cjwatson> hildon-theme-layout-4 accepted and publishing now
<moimart> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HildonDesktopPortability
<mdz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/hildon/
<bspencer_> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HildonDesktopPortability
<Mithrandir> mdz: hiya, how's it going?
<mdz> Mithrandir: a bit slowly, unfortunately
<mdz> Mithrandir: I thought hildon-desktop was going to be ready on friday?
<Mithrandir> it was, but all of its dependencies weren't, unfortunately.
<Mithrandir> how's the specs progressing?
<Mithrandir> I haven't really been online before now, so I haven't seen anything by email.
<mdz> Mithrandir: I spent much of yesterday finishing the bootstrap of hildon-desktop
<mdz> and now we have it running in a chroot
<mdz> with Xephyr
<mdz> though it looks very strange
<Mithrandir> missing theme bits, or something else?
<mdz> not sure yet
<Mithrandir> mdz: have you had any progress on the specs or focues squarely on bootstrapping?
<mdz> Mithrandir: I have personally been spending most of my time on bootstrapping, because this is the only opportunity we have to set up gutsy development environments
<mdz> Mithrandir: kyle has been working on the kernel spec
<Mithrandir> do you know what the rest has been doing?
<mdz> Mithrandir: we have discussed some design issues, the kernel, worked together on setting up development environments, did some whiteboarding yesterday
<mdz> Mithrandir: what have you been doing about autogen with the maemo packages you've imported?
<mdz> Mithrandir: adding the build-dependencies, or pregenerating?
<Mithrandir> pregenerating in most cases
<Mithrandir> I'm somewhat tempted to change that into adding the build-depends.
<mdz> Mithrandir: I've been doing that for the sake of expediency
<Mithrandir> that's fine with me, at least.
<Mithrandir> but, we're off for food here now.  I'll see if I can drop by later; leaving messages on IRC is probably better than email until I go to debconf.
<cjwatson> hildon-theme-plankton failed to build for the same reason as before, https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/347830
<cjwatson> mdz: ^--
<mdz> cjwatson: hmm, I uploaded a new version since that one
<mdz> which probably hasn't built yet
<cjwatson> this is the one uploaded an hour ago
<mdz> 4.8.2-1ubuntu3 is latest
<cjwatson> I see there's another one in accepted though, ok
<mdz> I'm bootstrapping a pbuilder here to try to avoid this, but it's taking a while to download (and failed the last time)
<kylem> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/hildon/
<mdz> rusty_: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.gutsy
<mdz> rusty_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement explains the setup
<rusty_> ok
<rusty_> mdz, shouldn't we have sdk-default-icons in the mobile seed?
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-13
<mdz> rusty_: the kernel installation failure is a bug, and nothing in particular to do with the fact that it's chrooted: bug 116266
<mdz> rusty_: as a workaround, touch /etc/kernel-img.conf
<bspencer_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/project-builder/ubuntu
<cjwatson> mdz: "Remove boot from mobile STRUCTURE for now, as it breaks germinate" - yes, it should be left out
<cjwatson> for a similar reason it isn't in desktop etc. either - inclusion in ship etc. is enough to get the contents of boot onto images
<mdz> cjwatson: yes, the final image build process may not be seed-based anyway
<mdz> at least not the first cut
<cjwatson> sure
<mdz> it's more "filesystem image + some bits"
<cjwatson> fine by me, was just backing up your change and mentioning that "for now" can be "for good" as far as I'm concerned. :-)
<mdz> cjwatson: what's the syntax to override a package to main?
<mdz> cjwatson: the ubuntu-mobile metapackage should go into universe
<cjwatson> before or after it's been published?
<mdz> cjwatson: before
<mdz> if possible
<cjwatson> main should be the default then
<cjwatson> but if it's not, 'q override <sourcepackage> source main/' or 'q override <binarypackage> binary main//'
<cjwatson> for -> universe, 'U <sourcepackage>' or 'u <binarypackage>' are shorthands, since that's common
<cjwatson> after publishing, see change-override.py --help
<cjwatson> also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration which explains all this
<mdz> cjwatson: hopefully I got it in time
<mdz> not sure I can tell
<cjwatson> q -Q accepted info
<cjwatson> or q -Q done info ubuntu-mobile
<cjwatson> don't think you got i386 in time, you'll have to change-override that
<cjwatson> it's no big deal ...
<lool> "Ubuntu's mobile and embedded project advances" http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8791125713.html
<rusty_> anyone know the progress of getting sdk-default-x11 and hildon-theme-plankton into gutsy?
<mdz> rusty_: sdk-default-icons is already there
<mdz> rusty_: hildon-theme-plankton has built and just needed to be acked as a new package (which I have just done)
<mdz> so it will be published in the archive within the hour
<rusty_> ok, i made a typo on the sdk-default-icons
<bspencer> rusty_, are you online?
<rusty_> yeap
<rusty_> How do i delete a launchpad project that i screwed up?
<rusty_> i was attempting to create a project called "zi9-config", and somehow have the url for the project pointing to https://launchpad.net/rusty-lynch-intel
<rusty_> where 'rusty-lynch-intel' is my user name
<rusty_> ... heading to a room ...
<tko_> FYI: http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2007/06/13/spinning-off-hildon/
<lucasr|thesis> :-)
<jonnylamb> Is it me or are {planet,blogs,live}.gnome.org all unreachable?
<lucasr|thesis> jonnylamb, same here
<tko_> lucasr|thesis, thesis?
<lucasr|thesis> tko_, yeah, mastering stuff
<lucasr|thesis> tko_, boooooooring!
<lucasr|thesis> tko, ping
<Mithrandir> tko: yay, rocking!
<mdz> rusty_: the ubuntu-mobile metapackage is in the archive now, and looks to be installable
<rusty_> i'll give it a try
<mdz> rusty_: (meaning hildon-theme-plankton is in as well, since that's a dependency)
<rusty_> mdz, other then me adding the wrong package in my last commit (i added sdk-default-x11 instead of sdk-default-icons), the ubuntu-mobile package works
<mdz> rusty_: is that fixed in the current bzr tree now?
<rusty_> yea, i just pushed a fix
<mdz> wow, python segfaults when I try to merge it
<robr> rusty_, we received 2 Q1 Ultras today...i have one and i had margie put the other one in your office
<sabotage> oh cool!
* sabotage goes to find margie to get mine
<robr> we expect a ton more, we only got 2 today
<sabotage> bummer, only two came today :(
<sabotage> yeah, I just saw her
<rusty_> cool
<robr> i'm setting it up now and will see if i can get it to boot linux
<rusty_> sabotage, how is that media app going?
<sabotage> I need to check in with Halley
<sabotage> initially he was a bit put off that the direction he was given from Cathy was different that what I was passing along
<sabotage> yesterday afternoon though, he was going over DBus tutorials
<sabotage> and apparently he now understands the need for the API implimentation before the UI
<rusty_> ok
<rusty_> is halley looking over the quick prototype code i gave you guys?
<sabotage> Not sure, lemme go check up on him quickly
<sabotage> rusty_ can you email me the path again. I didn't save the link :(
<rusty_> how about in irc?
<sabotage> sure
<rusty_> ssh://USER@umd-repo/home/repos/development-repositories/media-server.git
<rusty_> i think
<sabotage> close ;)
<sabotage> media-service.git
<rusty_> ok
<rusty_> i have some fixes that i made yesterday 
<rusty_> sabotage, ok, i just pushed my changes
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-14
<sabotage> rusty_: I just checked in with halley
<sabotage> he's having some trouble with dbus examples (compilation and seg faults)...I'm going to see if I can help
<rusty_> sabotage, you know... instead of futzing around with native code, you can make some pretty cool python apps
<rusty_> at least for testing out some concepts
<rusty_> and my code gives a good example of how to interact with dbus
<sabotage> yeah, I was just looking through your code, I see the dbus stuff in there
<rusty_> it's really simple
<rusty_> bobux, you listening?
<moimart> hi jobi :)
<ferulo> ey moimart 
<ferulo> how is it going?
<moimart> fine man, what about you?
<moimart> trying to access vpn
<ferulo> hehe
<ferulo> fine too
<moimart> you still at work?
<ferulo> yup
<ferulo> is tko around?
<moimart> no im in a room with ubuntu and intel guys
<moimart> tko is just outside attending DAM
<moimart> lucasr: hi :)
<lucasr> moimart, hei
<lucasr> moimart, how is it going?
<moimart> cool, im stuck in a room here in google with ubuntu and intel guys
<moimart> how about over there?
<lucasr> moimart, pretty calm
<lucasr> moimart, nothing to worry :-)
<moimart> concepting and bugfixing i guess :)
<moimart> great :)
<lucasr> moimart, yep
<moimart> are you still at work as well?
<ferulo> I lost again at Wii
<lucasr> moimart, nope
<moimart> ferulo: do what lucasr, GO HOME!
<ferulo> wait I need to finish some stuff
<lucasr> moimart, ferulo, he's playing Wii at work so it's ok :-P
<moimart> ferulo: I'll be back and the spanish empire will regain his glory at Wii
<moimart> :)
<lucasr> moimart, nah, the brazilian empire owns the Wii world
* lucasr goes to eat something
<moimart> lucasr: come on guys, you have already soccer, leave us at least the Wii
<bspencer> tko, are you guys nearby?
<moimart> bspencer: we are in a room pretty close to DAM room
<moimart> bspencer: rusty was calling you i think
<moimart> i think the name is uDuntu
<moimart> not really sure
<bspencer> moimart, where are you guys?
<bspencer> is rusty near you?
<bspencer> I'm in the same room we were before -- behind Matt (currently speaking)
<moimart> just sitted in front of me
<bspencer> ah
<bspencer> about docs -- have you discussed adding doxygen comments to the source and auto-generating at  build time?
<rusty_> we will crack the door open
<bspencer> what room is it?
<rusty_> we are just left of the speaker
<bspencer> in the big room -- in the back?
<bspencer> I'm lonley
<rusty_> we just peeked out and didn't see you
<moimart> the guys are gonna rescue you
<moimart> :)
<lucasr|dinner> moimart, have you met elijah?
<bspencer> I'm in the room we were in before
<bspencer> I'll come after Matt stops
<rusty_> bspencer, no, we have a much better room
<moimart> lucasr|dinner: yeah, really nice guy
<lucasr|dinner> moimart, :-)
<rusty_> just walk behind mdz and make funny faces
<moimart> we didnt talk so much about we are working on
<moimart> just some comments
<bspencer> moimart, I heard you were an entertainer in a previous life.
<moimart> pianist you mean :)
<bspencer> oh, I thought dancer
<bspencer> ;)
<moimart> well, actually I played it for a flamenco company
<moimart> of dancers!!!
<moimart> to me, dancing is for monkeys :)
<moimart> just kidding
<bspencer> there's bound to be a piano somewhere on the campus for you to play
<bspencer> moimart, how can we contribute docs to your upstream?  doxygen comments in the code,  or other?
<moimart> we followed another approach
<bspencer> yeah, nothing.
<moimart> gtk-doc + doocbook
<bspencer> sounds like Matt is wrapping up
<moimart> is that nothing?
<sabotage> rusty_ are you listening
<rusty_> yeap
<sabotage> when are you back
<sabotage> halley is asking...
<bspencer> tomorrow
<rusty_> yea, we fly back tonight and will be in the office tomorrow
<sabotage> rusty_:ok, I'm trying to make sure halley understands the priorities, and every time we talk, I think he understands, but then the next day he's back asking what priority the API is vs. the GUI 
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-mobile.log
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-15
<moimart> whois data
<peanutb> ok i just installed gutsy, how would i start the ubuntu-mobile gui? (i installed the ubuntu-mobile meta package) or am i missing something?
<sabotage> I've managed to start the UI, but it looks like crap because none of the theme files seem to be installed (icons/backgrounds/etc...)
<peanutb> sabotage, how do you start the ui
<sabotage> I confirmed that hildon-theme-plankton is installed
<sabotage> need to follow instructions in the email sent earlier
* peanutb looks
<sabotage> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
<peanutb> ohh thanks
<sabotage> run Xephyr, dbus-launch, and script (or similar process) and you'll get something at least
<sabotage> last week I was running xfce4 (wm/desktop/panel) with the "dark" theme and various apps and it was looking quite nice.  
<sabotage> I'm anxious to see hildon up and running
* peanutb has nothing else to do
<peanutb> so im going to try to.
<peanutb> hmm its going to take a while
<peanutb> and i gtg
<sabotage> I've posted the output from running my start script (c-n-p from the Wiki) here: http://pastebin.com/929288
<sabotage> obvious things that apper wrong are:
<sabotage> ** (hildon-desktop:4272): WARNING **: Failed to open connection to bus: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.
<sabotage> so my dbus-launch does not appear correct
<sabotage> I'm seeing alot of "could not load icon" warnings too, so the default theme is not configured right
<moimart> rusty_:  hi
<rusty_> morning
<moimart> you back in portland?
<rusty_> yeap
<moimart> how was the trip?
<rusty_> back to the cloudy skys
<moimart> :)
<rusty_> the trip was fine... it's a quick trip up to portland
<moimart> yeah i guessed so :)
<moimart> im waiting for bob right now
<moimart> no idea where he is
<rusty_> hmm.... he must have over slept
<agoliveira> Good morning folks.
<moimart> agoliveira: morning
<moimart> agoliveira: are you with bob?
<agoliveira> moimart: He should be around but didn't see him this morning yet.
<moimart> agoliveira: ok thx :)
<bspencer> moimart, I asked matthew allum about Xephyr but he didn't know anything
<bspencer> moimart, I sent email, included you.
<tko_> where's daniels when you could blame he for a bug...? :)
<bspencer> ken -- what room you guys in again?
<bspencer> agoliveira,  what's the status of the hildon-python bindings?
<agoliveira> bspencer: We are at the fundation meeting about mobile in a room just behind the projector screen on the left.
<bspencer> the big  room we were in yesterday ?
<agoliveira> bspencer: I didn't look at that yet.
<bspencer> agoliveira, ok.  Might be nice while Nokia guys close by 
<moimart> jobi: are you around?
<agoliveira> bspencer: No, it's literaly behind the screen.
<bspencer> ah, maybe I'll come later.  I'm in the little room 
<robr> kylem, which kernel tree did ben attempt to apply our patches to?
<robr> kylem, which tree should we be using to port our patches to?
<kylem> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-gutsy.git;a=summary likely, but i'll check with him to make sure.
<robr> kylem, he just sent it to me in email
<kylem> ah ok, cool.
<kylem> the google wireless is very slow today.
<kylem> :/
<robr> is he on this irc channel
<robr> i didn't know his nick
<derkling> Hi *!
<sabotage> anyone on that can help debug running hildon on gutsy based on the ubuntu-mobile meta-package?
<sabotage> it seems I may not be starting dbus session correctly (dbus-launch --exit-with-session) 
<sabotage> and or maybe a problem with the plankton theme
<sabotage> I'm just not able to get the plankton theme running, as I noted above.  any suggestions?
<sabotage> console output is here: http://pastebin.com/929917 
<sabotage> screenshot is here: http://tinyurl.com/2scgqu
<tko_> sabotage, your problem is on lines 24 and 25 -- if you comment out all lines with 'unbind' it should fix the theme
<tko_> though I thought adilson would've uploaded fixed packages already
<sabotage> tko_, that helped some, I now have the rounded buttons/menus and correct fonts, but no images or colors
<tko_> sabotage, did you follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure ?
<sabotage> I've just done an apt-get update and upgrade against ubuntu directly
<tko_> if it didn't work, bug the guys who wrote it down :)
<sabotage> tko_, yes
<sabotage> sort of.
<sabotage> I grabed the ubuntu-mobile meta-package, which now has all the listed packages
<sabotage> and I've verified they are there
<sabotage> I'm using the script he provided too
<sabotage> I also removed the status bar section from desktop.conf
<sabotage> I am starting dbus via dbus-launch --exit-with-session, is this correct?
<moimart> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-March/022668.html
<rusty_> sabotage, are you following the README I added to the project-builder source checked into lauchpad?
<sabotage> well, no, since I didn't know about it ;)
<sabotage> I'll check it out
<rusty_> sabotage, ok, i assumed you know about it since you some of the steps 
<rusty_> let me get that URL
<sabotage> nah, I was going from the mail sent to ubuntu-mobile mail list and the URL that was in it
<rusty_> ok, update your code and see the new README file
<sabotage> by "code" you mean PB?
<rusty_> btw, you no longer need to remove the unbind calls from the gtkrc files
<rusty_> yea
<sabotage> ok
<rusty_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/project-builder/ubuntu
<sabotage> removing the unbind did get me farther, but you're saying that when I update PB, I won't have to any more?
<rusty_> if you are building a new image from scratch then you will get the latest gtk packages from gutsy
<rusty_> gutsy update gtk yesterday morning 
<rusty_> and this new version knows how to do 'unbind'
<sabotage> ok, well I've been updating every few hours from ftp.ubuntu.com gutsy main 
<rusty_> funny, i never looked at that wiki... let me see what step is missing
<sabotage> but I haven't updated PB since, tuesday I think
<rusty_> you need to bind /proc
<rusty_> you only need to install 'ubuntu-mobile'... this package will pull in all the needed packages
<sabotage> since removing the unbind referecnces, I now am getting closer: http://tinyurl.com/2scgqu
<sabotage> rusty_, I did that (ubuntu-mobile)
<sabotage> but the bind /proc is new...
<rusty_> ok, i bet you don't have a session bus running
<sabotage> that's what I suspect to, but I'm not having luck figureing out the right way to do that
<sabotage> I tried dbus-launch --exit-with-session
<rusty_> first, you need the dbus system bus running... when you install dbus then the post install will do this for you, but if you rebooted since installing then you need to run "/etc/init.d/dbus start" inside the chroot
<sabotage> but if I don't have /proc bound, that could be a problem ;)
<rusty_> also
<rusty_> create a new user "useradd -m -s /bin/bash theuser"
<rusty_> and then "su - theuser" while inside the chroot
<rusty_> only after you have su'ed to the user (and you are careful not to leave off the "-" so that su will create a new environment), then you run your hildon start script
<rusty_> if you skip the last couple of steps then the session bus will not be automatically started by the dbus deamon when you request a service 
<rusty_> also...
<rusty_> it looks like you are missing the icon package
<rusty_> make sure ubuntu-mobile is installing 'sdk-default-icons'
<sabotage> rusty_ BTW, that URL did not work for me, this did though: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/project-builder/ubuntu
<rusty_> it was originally broke (from my stupid mistake)
<rusty_> sabotage, that's the url you use to checkout the code via bzr
<sabotage> ok, well the other one gave me a 404
<rusty_> i'm not sure if it works by pointing a browser at it
<sabotage> I have added the user and confirmed the icon package is installed
<rusty_> another easy to make mistake that adilson and i stumbled on yesterday was in they way you copy-n-paste the script
<rusty_> just be careful that the long lines are not broken
<rusty_> for example the GTK2_RC_FILES environment will point to a truncated file path
<sabotage> no bad breaks in my script
<rusty_> did you 'su - someuser' ?
<rusty_> after dbus was started via /etc/init.d/dbus
<rusty_> BTW, you will see error messages about connecting to dbus if the system and session bus are not setup correctly
<sabotage> assuming I've installed the latest bits, here is what I am doing:
<sabotage> 1- Start Xephyr
<sabotage> 2- Start PB
<sabotage> 3- Select Project and Target and launch terminal
<sabotage> 4- su - guest (account already created)
<sabotage> 5- export DISPLAY=:1.0
<sabotage> 6- dbus-launch --exit-with-session
<sabotage> 7- start-hildon-desktop (my name for adilson's script)
<sabotage> So I suspect dbus is not setting up right for me, but I'm unclear what's missing/broken
<sabotage> you mentioned binding /proc...?
<rusty_> sabotage, don't manually run dbus-launch
<rusty_> use the init script
<sabotage> oh!
<rusty_> if you are using project-builder then all the dirty details about bind mounting stuff like /proc is taken care of
<sabotage> ok
<rusty_> if you manually create a chroot vi debootstrap then do a:
<rusty_> sudo mount --bind /proc the/chroot/proc
<sabotage> I see I've got a butt load of dbus sessions running now, I need to clean that up and try again then
<rusty_> sudo mount --bind /tmp the/chroot/tmp
<rusty_> sabotage, it would be safe to reboot (it that is an option)
<sabotage> what, is this windows or somtheing ;)
<rusty_> well... if you understand which dbus instances to kill then you are fine
<rusty_> but if you don't... well... 
* sabotage uses kill -9 liberally
<rusty_> just don't be suprised when things like you network applet stop working
* sabotage chickens out after a few failed kills and reboots :(
<sabotage> hrmm, after my reboot, PB launched terminal chroot no longer has /proc bound...
<rusty_> sabotage, are you running the latest greatest code from bzr?
<rusty_> I just pushed revision 13
* sabotage is walking over to talk to rusty_ IRL
* rusty_ hides under the desk
#ubuntu-mobile 2007-06-17
<lucasr> hei
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-09
<dholbach> good morning
<lool> morning
<ogra> lool, btw i was using -18 all the time but didt manage to get apport to work at all
<davmor2> lool ping
<lool> davmor2: pong
<lool> ogra: You didn't?  it worked in my tests
<lool> ogra: Well to generate a crash and even report it IIRC, but I didn't retrace it
<davmor2> lool: cgregan just told me there is a newer version of MIC in place can I quickly check that it is the .44+repack-Ubuntu5
<ogra> well, i got my atom cmpc now, and will have to focus on that first, lets see if i get traces there
<lool> davmor2: Where do you care about?
<lool> davmor2: You want >= 0.44+repack-0ubuntu12
<lool> davmor2: It supports two new platforms which are the ones we will release with
<davmor2> lool: is it on a ppa or in the general repo's 
<lool> davmor2: It's in intrepid and ppa/hardy
<davmor2> lool: Okay cool I'll sort it from there then thanks
<davmor2> lool: ppa only shows ubuntu5 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/amd64/moblin-image-creator/0.44+repack-0ubuntu5 or is it a different ppa?
<lool> davmor2: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive shows mic 0.44+repack-0ubuntu12~804um1
<lool> Dunno where you got your URL
<lool> This is the deb http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15110719/moblin-image-creator_0.44%2Brepack-0ubuntu12%7E804um1_all.deb
<davmor2> lool: thanks, nor do I.  I just followed the links :)
<agoliveira> davmor2: Hi. Just saw your email. Sorry, I forgot to drop in here. Well, it was just a sugestion as we're dealing with 3 different packages I think there should be 3 bugs, not necessarely linking each other.
<davmor2> agoliveira: okay no probs I'll separate them out.
<agoliveira> davmor2: Thanks. I think makes more sense as I can close a bug each time I have a fix :)
<davmor2> give me 10 minutes and it should be done
<agoliveira> davmor2: No problem.
<agoliveira> Thanks
<davmor2> done
<davmor2> agoliveira: I've renamed the initial bug and changed it's description to alarm clock and add two new bugs for update-manager and office document reader
<agoliveira> davmor2: Cool. Thanks.
<davmor2> np's
<nkostop> ï»¿does anybody knows about sierra wireless cards for 3G networks?
<Stroganoff> nkostop n1
<nkostop> yes?
<nkostop> where can i find some support?
<Stroganoff> everywhere
<Stroganoff> just formulate your problem and state it.
<Stroganoff> also use the wiki and google
<Stroganoff> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AirCard8X0
<nkostop> you know i have a very strange problem(i have a usb mini pc sierra card which is not listed with lsusb-i haven't find anyone with the same proble)
<nkostop> is there any way to list such a card exept lsusb?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-10
<persia> nkostop: lspci might help
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: This channel is for conversations around the Ubuntu UME development version | Info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded | Please read the FAQ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ | Testing information available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall
<DNis> hi is there an howto for install the rc2 ?
<DNis> it boot on my htc shift
<DNis> and prompt "will mount root from /dev/sdb"
<DNis> and still in this state about 5minutes
<DNis> ago
<persia> DNis: There isn't, although it'd be great if you could take notes and write one.
<persia> You're booting off a USB key with the install image?
<DNis> yes
<DNis> it writes found usb flash drive at /dev/sdb
<DNis> then will mount...
<DNis> and nothing more
<DNis> i have taken the image for mccuslin
<persia> Hmmm..  I don't have the right image on my key to replicate right now.  Be a bit to burn the right one.
<DNis> i shoud try with rc1 ?
<DNis> sould*
<persia> Yep, McCaslin would be right for the HTC Shift.
<DNis> should*
<persia> No, RC2 is more likely to work than RC1.
<DNis> any idea of what can i do right now ?
<DNis> (and sure i will make an howto if it works
<DNis> )
<persia> Unfortunately, I've not installed enough times to recognise the prompt.  Once my key burns with the right image, I'll be able to follow along and figure out where you are stalled.
<persia> At that point, I might have a suggestion (although I can't promise anything)
<DNis> tell me so :)
<DNis> when ur done
<persia> DNis: Has it already formatted your hard drive?
<DNis> no
<DNis> i was able to reboot on vista
<DNis> with this kind of installation i will not be able to dual-boot ?
<DNis> are you aware about wubi ?
<DNis> is it possible to mix it with ubuntu mobile ?
<DNis> http://wubi-installer.org/
<persia> Wubi might be able to work with Ubuntu-Mobile, although I don't think anyone has tested it.
<persia> The install image does autoformat the disk on first boot.  Maybe it's a good thing it didn't work.
<persia> On the other hand, I'm not sure why it failed.  Maybe there's some hardware quirk?
<lool> persia: The scripts assume things such as /dev/sda being the name of the hard disk IIRC
<lool> It's likely to fail because of this in many cases
<persia> DNis: That's it then.  Looks like the buggy script is the reason your harddrive wasn't formatted.
<persia> lool: Thanks.
<persia> Are we documenting success/failure on devices anywhere?  Might be nice to have a wiki page.
<lool> persia: I wouldn't think it's too helpful for hardy as we're freezing it, but definitely something we want to do for intrepid
<persia> lool: See, I'd argue the opposite way.  It'd be interesting to have a supported devices list for Hardy so people play with it.
<persia> For intrepid, we can look to expand this list.
<lool> persia: Would we really care about bug reports for hardy?
<persia> lool: I'm not thinking about bug reports.  I'm thinking about hints to get the install working on the hardware that people already have.
<persia> Just a wiki page with a note as to whether a given device is supported or not, and if supported, if any special work is required to complete the install.
<lool> Ok
<persia> The idea is to save people like DNis from needing to ask, when we could just reference the device list in the wiki.
<lool> persia: That's always a good idea :)
<DNis> persia: my hard disk is recognize as /dev/sda
<persia> DNis: Hmm.  I'm confused then (but it's late here).
<DNis> persia: sorry for waking you up so lol
<persia> DNis: No worries :)  I'm just unlikely to understand why your image didn't install tonight.
<DNis> i can retry but as i remeber, my hard disk was recognized first
<DNis> and then the usb key was on /dev/sdb1
<DNis> i'm not sure it will help you...
<samjam> I'm interested in an armel build of ubuntu mobile for the HTC Universal phone device. I'm running armel debian right now, mostly a result of other peoples work.
<DNis> samjam: as i know ubuntu mobile is reserved for x86 architecture
<samjam> But I suppose I could recpompile for another architecture
<samjam> or recompile, even
<DNis> samjam: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<samjam> thats helpful, thanks
<DNis> samjam: maybe you right, but i precise i'm not from the dev team
<samjam> Do you know if the mobile and embedded strategy involves cut-down versions of anything?
<DNis> samjam: i don't know, maybe persia can answer
<persia> samjam: There was talk about recompiling Ubuntu for ARM at UDS, but no schedule was established.  You may find the work at mojo.handhelds.org to be an interesting place to start, but Debian ARMel is likely more interesting.
<samjam> thanks, persia
<DNis> persia: will there be an install with live-cd style ?
<persia> DNis: The live images I've used weren't install images.
<DNis> persia: but there is for ubuntu, isnt it ?
<persia> DNis: Yes.  Ubuntu has a livecd that is also an installer.
<DNis> persia: oh .. i'm talking about ubuntu mobile sorry
<DNis> persia: and there will not be for ubuntu mobile ?
<lool> davmor2: How are you building your VM against the new platforms?
<lool> davmor2: I would suggest trying ./simple-mobile-builder --platform menlow-lpia-ume
<persia> Might be good to update the wiki page as well
<davmor2> lool: current not I take the mic image and on smb I simply use the command originally given which now works fine with sound also :)
<davmor2> lool: I shall give it a go now though :)
<davmor2> lool: --platform is not supported
<lool> davmor2: Uh?
<lool> davmor2: What's the error?
<davmor2> Error: "--platform" is not a supported vm
<lool> davmor2: Oh, you still need kvm hardy in front, sorry
<lool> ./simple-mobile-builder kvm hardy --platform menlow-lpia-ume
<lool> or mccaslin-lpia-ume
<davmor2> okay cool I'll try again
<davmor2> lool: that's working
<davmor2> lool: I'll ping you after if I get a successful build
<sjovan> hey guys. is Installing UME test environment using the [WWW] Image Builder (preferred). <--- the ubuntu-mobile install? is it functional?
<lool> sjovan: What's the [WWW] Image Builder (preferred)?
<lool> sjovan: Depends if it's for real hardware or for a vm
<sjovan> lool: it's from this wiki ---> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<sjovan> oh... nvm
<sjovan> that's work i progres
<lool> sjovan: Do you want to install on real hardware, or in a VM?
<sjovan> real hardware
<sjovan> or isn't the prog in that stage yet?
<davmor2> sjovan: what hw
<lool> sjovan: The install script relies on particular hardware assumptions, it will format your whole /dev/sda hard drive
<lool> This is all hardcoded
<lool> It will also use a hardcoded xorg config etc.
<lool> Anyway, for real hardware, grab a daily or a released image, write to an USB stick, and boot on that
<sjovan> davmor2: not any spesific hw. just checking out some stuff for a colege of mine :)
<lool> davmor2: Let me know what errors if any you get from creating this VM
<davmor2> lool: no probs.  It's hit a few duplicated repos but that's it so far it seems to building quite happily :)
<sjovan> lool: so where can i finde a image of ubuntu mobile? how is it working on the the different phones in  Samsung 
<sjovan> oops
<sjovan> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<lool> Checkout the FAQ, wont work on phones
<sjovan> ah, k
<lool> We should have an ume-friendly-bot auto-answering any line with "phone" in it ;)
<sjovan> aaa
<sjovan> it's for pocket computer not smart-phones
<sjovan> my bad :)
<sjovan> just googeld  Samsung 
<sjovan> Q1 Ultra 
<sjovan> :)
<davmor2> anything with any hw other than samsung Q1u 
<sjovan> soo... what linux distro can you guys recomend for "smart"-phones then :)
<samjam> sjovan, it won't "not" work on smartphones, there's just more work, and no-ones doing it right now
<samjam> sjovan what smartphone do you have?
<sjovan> samjam: as i stated earlier on. just a co-worker of mine that want a phone with linux
<sjovan> so i'm just findeing out stuff for him
<suihkulokki> I don't think there is (yet) any other linux phone to seriously consider than the openmoko
<samjam> There's nothing for a while, and no shortcuts. I'm using an HTC Universal (XDA Exec) with titchy-mobile, an armel debian derivative
<sjovan> samjam: so you could always recomend a good smart-phone and a distro that works well with it
<samjam> sjovan, no, and the openmoko isn't really ready yet IMHO for non dev use.
<suihkulokki> samjam: do you have info of tichy mobile?
<suihkulokki> samjam: well everything else is even less ready :P
<samjam> http://wiki.neilandtheresa.co.uk/Titchy_Mobile
<samjam> ï»¿I bought an old HTC Universal on ebay once I heard linux was largely working on that, and am doing "fine" with titchy-mobile which is to say it is a linux device with a sort of phone on it. it "works"
<samjam> But I hope I can take advantage of all the UME hard work and only have to re-compile.
<samjam> However it only has 64MB of RAM although 80 UK pounds or so will upgrade it to 128MB
<sjovan> samjam: what's your defenition of "fine" and "works"?
<samjam> It means it's only good for techies who enjoy using their skills to reduce the pain.
<samjam> it means there is no integrated contacts and dialler and pda, but there is a bash shell and awk and gtkdialog
<suihkulokki> samjam: you could already recompile the UME packages using debian/armel as base
<suihkulokki> samjam: there is debian/maemo project I started for that, but I've been lackign time to finish it
<samjam> yeah, thats my plan, but I don't know how to cross compile packages yet.
<samjam> so I'm compiling native
<samjam> which is not wise with SD card as swap
<samjam> ï»¿suihkulokki, if you can hint me on cross compiling debs for armel, I'd be grateful. I'm assuming it's some args to deb_build once I have the cross compiler setup. I guess glibc will be the first to do.
<suihkulokki> well I'm native-compiling too
<samjam> fair enough. Maybe I will do NFS-swap
<samjam> so I'll probably just compile the UME debs natively on top of my debian build
<samjam> ï»¿suihkulokki do you have links to your debian/maemo project?
<suihkulokki> samjam: http://wiki.debian.org/pkg-maemo
<samjam> ta
<samjam> what device were you using?
<suihkulokki> Nokia N800 is the target, but for compiling we have Thecus N2100 NAS devices
<samjam> oohhh. want one
<samjam> is it wireless?
<samjam> I'm using an NSLU2 but the lack of RAM is hurting me
<suihkulokki> wireless, what?
<samjam> wireless network NAS, but I see that it isn't. A bit expensive too, for no disks in it.
<lool> samjam: You can add a wireless mini PCI, not sure whether you'll find a supported one though
<lool> There's supposedly an antenna plug, I'm not sure how easy it is to use it though
<samjam> I'm looking for a well priced linux-hackable wireless NAS to replace my NSLU2
<samjam> hmm
<suihkulokki> We (Debian armel) use Thecues as buildd's as they are the fastest and most ram-extensible arm systems *now* available for general shops
<samjam> I didn't realise you could increase the ram on it. How much do you get it up to?
<suihkulokki> 512MB
<samjam> oooohhh
<samjam> has it got usb?
<suihkulokki> yes
<samjam> I think I gotta get one.
<suihkulokki> the main drawbacks are noisy fan and price
<samjam> and you run debian on it?
<suihkulokki> we have debian-installer support for it
<lool> The fan is also a bit borderline to cool off two disks properly (at least mine)
<suihkulokki> lool: are you keeping the box vertically?
<samjam> do you have to solder to add the RAM?
<lool> Poor davmor2
<lool> suihkulokki: No; good idea though :)
<suihkulokki> samjam: it has a DDR dimm slot
<lool> suihkulokki: Grid on top I guess?
<suihkulokki> lool: if positioned vertically, the heat will flow easier to the fan (from between the disks)
<suihkulokki> horizontally the lower disk will just heat the top one
<lool> Yeah
<samjam> Doesn't look like there was any airflow design at: http://techgage.com/print/thecus_n2100
<lool> The top one is usually 1 or 2 Â°C hotter
<cl0s> is Ubuntu Remix pretty much just Ubuntu MobileAndEmbeded??
<cl0s> sorry looking at it now.. def not..
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-11
<Morph3us> hi.. somebody has an Asus Eeepc?
<virtualroadside> any thoughts on how one might automatically or otherwise download cd covers compatible with moblin-media?
<Morph3us> this project has made any release?
<virtualroadside> AFAIK, still alpha/beta
<Morph3us> virtualroadside, what means AFAIK ?
<virtualroadside> as far as i know
<Morph3us> thanks virtualroadside.. this projects is the same that ubuntu remix?
<virtualroadside> im not sure what you mean
<Morph3us> virtualroadside, recently was announced the release of Ubuntu Netbook Remix.. 
<persia> This isn't the same project, although some of the people involved in the Netbook Remix also idle here.
<virtualroadside> ooh.. the netbook remix looks interesting
<Morph3us> persia, what is the main difference between both projects ?
<persia> Morph3us: Ubuntu Mobile is a project to build a flavour of Ubuntu optimised for mobile devices.
<Morph3us> persia, and UME is... ?
<persia> Netbook Remix is a remix of Ubuntu that showcases various technologies for demonstration on a certain class of machines.
<Morph3us> persia, all right..
<Morph3us> persia, so if i have a Asus EeePC i should choose wich of them ?
<persia> Morph3us: Depends on the definition of UME.  Ubuntu Mobile and Embedded is a more general project to handle both the mobile device model and the dedicated device model (although efforts to date have not focused on the Embedded part)
<persia> Morph3us: I can't tell you what to install :)  Personally, I run Ubuntu Mobile on by SR8.
<persia> s/by/my/
<virtualroadside> Morph3us: i use UME in my carputer
<virtualroadside> ie.. computer in my car
<virtualroadside> works quite well for touchscreen apps
<Morph3us> all right.. ubuntu for everyone.. 
<Morph3us> persia, there are another project for ubuntu in cellphones? or is this project UME?
<persia> Morph3us: There are two separate projects within Ubuntu with the acronym "UME".
<persia> As for installation on cellphones, it's likely a matter of the definition of "cellphone".  If you've a computer that happens to have phone functionality, Ubuntu Mobile could work on it (although there is no dialer application by default).
<persia> If you've a telephone that has some computing functionality, it's likely that it won't have sufficient processing /memory / storage for Ubuntu Mobile.
<Morph3us> persia, thanks for the info.. 
<Morph3us> i love ubuntu, but the customizations for the eeepc are bad, heavy and slow
<Morph3us> i dream with an ubuntu from scratch.. with the possibility of customization for everyone..
<Morph3us> i was thinkin about install ubuntu JeOS in my eeepc
<persia> Morph3us: I'd probably recommend Ubuntu Mobile over JeOS.  JeOS is really designed for a virtualised applicance case, and so often doesn't include any UI.
<Morph3us> persia, where can i download ubuntu mobile ?
* persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-mobile to: This channel is for conversations about Ubuntu Mobile development | Info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded | Please read the FAQ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ | Testing information available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall
<persia> Morph3us: There are some test install images available from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/moblin/releases/hardy/rc2/  Note that these will format your device harddrive by default.  I've not heard any reports about whether they work on the Eee.
<Morph3us> persia, can i try it on virtualbox ?
<persia> Morph3us: I'm not sure.  You might be able to do so.  For KVM, see the testing page in the /topic.
<virtualroadside> Morph3us: what I did, was installed a normal ubuntu system, installed the ubuntu-mobile package, and configured GDM to allow me to login to the UME
<virtualroadside> however, the bug people really dont like that :p
<persia> If you're going that route, you'd do best to use the Ubuntu alternate installer, and only install ubuntu-minimal, rather than the entire Ubuntu Desktop.
<Morph3us> bug people? virtualroadside there is some tutorial about how you do it? (sorry for my bad english)
<virtualroadside> true true
<virtualroadside> no tutorial yet
<persia> There's a lot of differences between Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu Mobile, and some packages behave differently in the two situations.
<persia> Morph3us: The only tutorial I've seen is for building KVM images.
<virtualroadside> *shrugs*
<Morph3us> persia, do u know why ubuntu hardy is so inestable?
<virtualroadside> it works for me
<virtualroadside> it may work for you
<virtualroadside> may not
<persia> Morph3us: No.
<virtualroadside> bug people == maintainers who look at stuff on launchpad
<Morph3us> persia, there is a package named ubuntu-minimal ?
<persia> Morph3us: There is.
<Morph3us> persia, i don't knew that.. 
<Morph3us> persia, can i install ubuntu server and after that ubuntu-minimal? should be lighter and faster that ubuntu-desktop
<virtualroadside> persia: at some point im going to go back and do a minimal install, but i originally didn't know about UME when i installed the alpha hardy stuff, so its all there in one big mess. i've also created patches to fix various things, and im still waiting for some of them to trickle down to ubuntu from upstream
<persia> Call for install testers: McCaslin RC3 images available from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/moblin/releases/hardy/rc3/ Menlow images expected soon
<persia> Morph3us: Ubuntu Server is a superset of ubuntu-minimal
<virtualroadside> ie.. its a mess atm :p
<persia> virtualroadside: Understood.  If you've patches, you might try getting them into Ubuntu directly.
<virtualroadside> yeah, zero luck there, its been easier to get them into upstream so far
<Morph3us> persia, i am a little confused.. there is any official documentation about this ?
<virtualroadside> and quite a few of the UME related packages lag far behind upstream for various reasons
<persia> Morph3us: Lots, but scattered.  Try looking on the wiki for seeds, and investigating the ubuntu-meta source package.
<persia> virtualroadside: Ah.  We'll have to change that.  Poke me next time you have a patch, and I'll try to help you with the sepentine processes involved in getting it applied.
<persia> Regarding upstream delays: Ubuntu Mobile is currently frozen, for the Hardy release.  Once Hardy is released, intrepid should become trunk, and things catch up (although that may mean a rough ride for a prior install)
<virtualroadside> yeah, i slowly became more aware of that... since i started messing with this stuff in late feb. 
<Morph3us> persia, virtualroadside thanks for the info.. i must go now..
<virtualroadside> persia: i'll be sure to poke you in the future. atm im trying to fix my mess so I can install the carputer back in my car for my 16 hour drive on thursday :)
<persia> virtualroadside: Good luck.  I won't be able to do much until after release anyway.  Have a good drive.
<virtualroadside> any thoughts on when release will be?
<persia> Real Soon Now!  More seriously, the more people who can test RC3 and verify it works, the higher the chance that RC3 will be the final RC.
<lool> suihkulokki: I wonder if by chance you had any success fixing the license of sdk-default-icons?
<suihkulokki> lool: someone has been assigned for that
<lool> suihkulokki: Good news, thanks
<lool> suihkulokki: If there's a public bug, I'd love to subscribe to it
<suihkulokki> no public bug I'm aware of.. I don't know if they'll manage to release the new sdk-default-icons before diablo release
<lool> Ok
<pwnguin> is this the same as the netbook stuff?
<probono> no, this is a "sister project"
<pwnguin> how confusing =(
<pwnguin> so are they different mainly because they target different platforms, or is this some attempt to firewall canonical from ubuntu?
<probono> i am not sure. i just asked the same question here a couple of days ago.
<probono> i think ubuntu-mobile is for even smaller devices than the ubuntu netbook remix.
<probono> but not really sure
<mario_limonciell> Hi, I was wondering what would cause certain packages to just not be built for lpia in universe? particularly i was looking at : https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/crash/4.0-4.13-1ubuntu1 .  I didn't see any indications that should stop it from at least trying in debian/control, but didn't see any test builds show up
<ogra> Architecture: i386 ia64 alpha powerpc amd64
<ogra> mario_limonciell, i thik its pretty clear about the arches it wants to build on
<mario_limonciell> doh.  I was greping for "lpia" to look for a not lpia :)
<ogra> either make it 'any' so it builds everywhere or add 'lpia'
<mario_limonciell> i wonder if there is a particular reason it wasn't done on lpia though
<ogra> its not listed 
<ogra> if arch isnt any or all it will only work down the list
<mario_limonciell> is setting up an lpia pbuilder/sbuild just the same as how you would set up an i386 one on amd64?
<ogra> yep
<mario_limonciell> okay, i'll set up an lpia sbuild then and give it a run though that.  if it ends up working out fine, i'll upload a fix to intrepid
<mario_limonciell> thanks
<ogra> (at least fr chroots thats true, havent used pbuilder/sbuild in that context yet)
<lool> mario_limonciell: thanks for fixing
<lool> I've used lpia pbuilders; work fine, but only in tgz mode; cowbuilder doesn't work on amd64 just like i386
<lool> I'd guess lpia works in cowbuilder under i386, didn't try though
<mario_limonciell> lool, argh, unfortunately setting up sbuild w/ mk-sbuild-lv --arch lpia didn't work
<mario_limonciell> so i'll needs fsck around a bit to find a box to put pbuilder on then
<ogra> just do it in a chroot :)
<mario_limonciell> yeah i might have to, which should be fine just for the purposes of checking if it builds
<mario_limonciell> okay well i was able to build it on PPAs quicker than my chroot built :)  it does work so i'll upload it to intrepid.   (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~superm1/+archive/+build/634379)
<ogra> sweet
<slim1_> when i try to build image i got this error ,  http://phpfi.com/323730
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-12
<djp_> hi ubuntu-mobile maniacs !
<djp_> is there yet a channel for Remix ?
<djp> or is this the place ?
<lool> djp: We don't have a channel for remix
<lool> djp: I suspect remix people are around
<lool> At least njpatel is :)
<djp> a couple of things I wodering;
<djp> will it be available for non-Atom CPUs ?
<djp> when the anndouncement mentiones "optimized for retail" what do they mean ?
<djp> to put on machines to sell ? or to put on machines for sales (I want the latter)
<lool> Meeting in one minute
<djp> when will it be ready ?
<djp> ok
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:02. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> Hi everybody; thanks for attending this week's meeting
<lool> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080612
<lool> I love this week's agenda
<lool> As I read it, we have no items to revisit from last week
<lool> Nor for this week
<lool> So it's open agenda season!
<lool> I'll hang around for 5 minutes or so in case anybody would like to add an agenda item
<cgregan> should we discuss RC3?
<lool> [topic] RC3 discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC3 discussion 
<lool> cgregan: Sure, go ahead!
 * persia likes RC3: works better than any previous images
<cgregan> I just wanted to say that is was built and is working great
<cgregan> Passed all smoke tests
<GrueMaster> where's rc2?
<lool> Cool; same here, it works great for me
<cgregan> Not bug free....but I'd agree with lool and persia
<cgregan> RC2 is still up in the release area on cdimage Gruemaster
<GrueMaster> No one notified us that it was ready.
<lool> GrueMaster: I still see rc2 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/moblin/releases/hardy/
<GrueMaster> Yea, I see it now too.
<lool> However StevenK plans some cleanup of at least the beta images soonish
<GrueMaster> no problem there.
<cgregan> RC3 is much better GrueMaster
<cgregan> We believe this will become Final soon
<GrueMaster> Will get and start testing it.
<cgregan> There are some great VM image building instructions over with the cases on the wiki
<cgregan> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall
<cgregan> That's all I had on RC3
<lool> Ok
<lool> I'm currently spending my time on misc small bug fixes and on virtual-mobile-builder
<cgregan> We should develop some method of alerting the community to new builds
<cgregan> Can we have an action item for me?
<lool> cgregan: I think it will make more sense when we actually spend the time to build more generic images; e.g. targetted at eepc
<lool> cgregan: Also, marketing announces releases here
<cgregan> Ahh
<lool> cgregan: That said, I think you can happily take an action to talk to marketing to send announces about RC-N releases or betas
<lool> In fact, these should be announced along the regular Ubuntu releases in the next cycle IMO
<lool> (alpha 1, 2, 3, etc.)
<cgregan> Will do
<lool> [action] cgregan to talk to marketing about announcing pre-releases of UME
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cgregan to talk to marketing about announcing pre-releases of UME 
<lool> Ok; if we're done with rc3, any other topic for today?
<persia> cgregan: Might be worth also working with stgraber to get these as part of the ISO tracker (although these are not ISO images).
<cgregan> Yes...there is already discussion on moving testing to ISO tracker
 * persia likes alignment of effort
<lool> Ok; I see no new topic on the wiki page, so I'll just take this occasion to warn people that they should be very very careful about uploads to the ppa
<lool> The ppa is now our stable-updates testing area; once an update is tested, it will be promoted to the release archive
<persia> lool: That's now for SRU candidates only, right?  New stuff should go into intrepid?
<lool> persia: Exactly
<lool> No new development or releases should happen in the hardy ppa; unless needed to fix a grave stable bug, but that's unlikely
 * persia is willing to be a contact point for anyone having issues getting updates into intrepid (not always as uploader, but for process questions, etc.)
<lool> Get in touch with me if you want to prepare such uploads and need guidance
<lool> Or ask persia :)
<bspencer> lool: there is also risk when image-creator changes.  I assume that can affect you too, tru?
<bspencer> e
<lool> bspencer: Where would it change?
<lool> bspencer: We currently use the packaged image-creator which is in our ppa
<bspencer> for example, it just changed to use autogen.sh 
<bspencer> ah, ok.
<bspencer> no risk then
<lool> Which has the new platforms for the release archive
<lool> That new MIC should be targetted at intrepid now
<lool> Not sure it was released though
<bspencer> I haven'tused a packaged image-creator for over a yar
<bspencer> year
<lool> bspencer: That explains :)
<bspencer> all our docs say to pull from the source and build/install
<bspencer> and that the packaged one is out of date and uncertain
<bspencer> :-\
<lool> bspencer: All our docs say to install the package ;)
<bspencer> cool.  glad it works actually
<bspencer> I wasn't sure you were updating and testing with it.  Good news
<lool> I can only use the packaged one
<lool> It has many fixes we rely on
<bspencer> are the platforms in the packaged version highly customizes?
<bspencer> d
<lool> bspencer: "highly" not really
<lool> We add a couple of platforms
<persia> bspencer: Sounds like a focus thing: it's likely best for upstream types to use VCS trunk directly, and for Ubuntu Mobile hackers to use the package, and push candidate changes in bug reports.
<bspencer> well, I mean have you eliminated unused ones.
<lool> One for mccaslin, one for menlow
<bspencer> hardy+ppa
<bspencer> and a new one for eeepc ?
<lool> We didn't eliminated uneeded ones
<lool> There's no platform for eeepc yet
<bspencer> ok.  thx.
<bspencer> persia: true, although we're all Ubuntu Mobile hackers (IMO)
<lool> Another thing we change in the platforms we build against is that we drop most packages in fsets and use the ubuntu-mobile metapackage to pull things instead
<bspencer> lool: right
<persia> bspencer: Excellent :), although I suspect we won't all also be upstream as we grow.
<lool> bspencer: I'm happy to work on making the packages better
<lool> bspencer: In fact I've prepared a non-negligible number of patches for MIC
<bspencer> lool: great
<lool> Half of them aren't merged yet, so I wouldn't be able to move to a new MIC without rebasing them
<bspencer> ok.  We'll do that after your UME release
<bspencer> meaning -- we can focus on getting those things in 
<lool> That said, I would recommend you to publish packages of any app you tell users to use; that is, if you're unhappy about the age of our packages, we could of course try to fix that, or you could publish newer MIC packages in other repos
<lool> because manually installed apps tend to break subtly with old files not being removed and generally mess up one's system
<lool> How many times have I received bugs about crashes resulting from libs installed by the end user in /usr/local/lib  :-/
<lool> Anyway, sorry, I'm getting offtopic :)
<bspencer> got it
<lool> I wish everybody a happy week then
<lool> thanks for attending!
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:21.
<lool> djp: Back to you now
<lool> djp: Concerning readyness, and availability; I would guess your questions are partly covered in the FAQ
<persia> djp: Regarding architecture: the majority of code isn't actually architecture specific, although you may have some testing to do in order to verify it works on an alternate architecture (not that there are that many SPARC or PPC mobiles about)
<lool> djp: if not, I'd be happy to complete it
<lool> persia: technically, many bits are only enabled if arch == lpia though
<persia> lool: True, but some of those cases are bugs
<lool> persia: Yeah; it was a shortcut to do things like this
<lool> And a nice shortcut, cause it is indeed much harder to do properly :)
<persia> Very much so.
<lool> What do you people use to push .debs to your kvm?  you publish them over http and then wget them?  push to a ppa?
<persia> scp?
<lool> I like being able to simply scp them, but I'm not sure I can reach my kvm
<lool> at least I can't ping its ipv4 from my desktop
<lool> I guess a different network backend would help
<persia> Heh.  What are you using?  bridged?
<lool> I think not; I'm using whatever is the default
<lool> Let's try bridged
<lool> i think it didn't work on my laptop, but wifi is too special
<persia> Ah.  usermode.  You want to add iface br0 to /etc/network/interfaces
<lool> persia: What do you pass kvm for bridged mode?
<persia> lool: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM will probably answer your next couple questions as well.
<lool> persia: So I'm not too familiar with libvirt, but it seems either you create VMs without it and then configure each VM manually, or you create VMs with it, and then you need to use it
<lool> Does that mean we should be using libvirt in virtual-mobile-builder by default and generate a libvirt command-line?
 * lool needs to run out for a while
<djp> lool: thanks for the info and the support, I'm trying to get an exiting new point of sales system built for my caffe (all FOSS, of course) and Remix looks like it might be perfect for the 800*600 touchscreens
<persia> lool: I'm not sure.  I read that too, but am not awake enough to test much (having gotten up from a nap, and planning to sleep again in 85 minutes precludes coffee).
<persia> djp: If you're looking at it from a PoS perspective, you'll have a bit of customisation to do anyway.  I'd recommend starting with matchbox, and seeing how much you want from the remix, from Ubuntu Mobile, and from other sources.
<djp> lool: s/exiting/exciting
<djp> persia: interesting.. matchbox, eh ?
<djp> the PoS app in question is a java/swing thing
<djp> guess that wouldn't precluse matchbox
<djp> s/precluse/preclude
<djp> but I don't see it as a pure appliance, as there are several other apps usefull from the register
<persia> djp: Sure.  It's a matter of what you want to install.  Matchbox is just a window manager.
<persia> I've only limited experience working with PoS installations, but I suspect that except for the touchscreen interface, most of the use cases are quite different.
<persia> There's no reason you can't have a panel of some sort, perhaps with launchers for your kiosk tasks, etc. (but this gets quite off topic)
<pmcgowan> bspencer, hey, what is the issue with having shared use of xulrunner between browser and home plugin?
<lool> persia: I guess the page you sent me encourages moving to libvirt which will just do its things; I was happy to start vms with ./kvm-wrapper though; I also would like to keep network manager working on my ubuntu boxes, but I guess this conflicts with using bridges etc.
<lool> vmwares manages to do it
<persia> lool: Yeah, well, it's a matter of software maturity.  You can still configure the bridged networking without libvert.  I'll dig you up another page.
<lool> Basically no perfect solution on http://kvm.qumranet.com/kvmwiki/Networking
<lool> There's vde
<persia> lool: Are you on wireless?
<lool> persia: On the laptop, yes
<lool> On the desktop, no; would still prefer keeping NM though
<persia> lool: For the desktop, 3. public bridge from that page ought work, although it requires a bit of fiddling.
<lool> The slirpvde thing allows to do basically the same thing tahn kvm hmm
<lool> persia: Yeah, I'm used to such fiddling, but I know it's pretty much incompatible with NM then :-/
<persia> For the laptop, you can create a fake eth0:1, and assign it some IP address, and use that (avahi-autoipd will do that for you: it's a bug for most people, but might be a feature for you)
<lool> It looks like we don't have a transparent solution like vmware's in opensource
<persia> Well, that's largely because we don't preload everything on the host.
<lool> persia: Hmm you can use an alias in place of a tap?!
<persia> vmware installs a mess of special interfaces on the host
<lool> The kernel drivers behave differently
<persia> Well, yes, but there are ways around that.
<lool> For example the bridge will simply, well, be a bridge, but leave the IP address and all to your phys intf
<persia> If we by default created 10 extra interfaces on the host for use by KVM, it would be easy.
<lool> and the nat doesn't rely on iptables AFAIK
<persia> You don't use the alias in place of the tap, just in the brctl line.
<lool> Well you still wouldn't get NM support if you had a bridge
<persia> brctl doesn't check link status, so as long as you can route, it works, and the kernel will shortcut rather than sending over the interface for localhost.
<lool> Uh you're really adding an alias interface to a bridge
<lool> It doesn't check it, it enforces it :)
<persia> What?  You don't get nm support on the bridged interface, but that may not matter (hence using an alias)
<lool> Not link status, but interface up/down-ess for sure
<persia> Right, it only verifies the interface is up.  You don't need to connect a cable.
<lool> It will bring the interface up if it's taken up and vice-versa
<persia> This is frustrating for many people because they want behaviour to be controlled by link status, rather than interface status, but in your use case it's convenient.
<lool> Bridges are cool when they work, but so ugly most of the time :-/
<persia> Well, I guess.  I think they are always ugly, and prefer to have internal routing on virtual interfaces, but that's even messier to configure.
<persia> (as you need an internal router, etc.)
<lool> Oh well, I guess I'll go the full blown way, use libvirt, create a tap each time I start a VM, and route and NAT them
<persia> lool: That's ideal, but annoying to set up.
<lool> Definitely :-(
<GrueMaster> davidm: ping - I'm looking at RC3, and the psb driver versions are all over the place.
<GrueMaster> dri modules are 0016, xorg module is 0014, kernel module is 0010.
<GrueMaster> ï»¿davidm: ping - I'm looking at RC3, and the psb driver versions are all over the place.
<GrueMaster> ï»¿dri modules are 0016, xorg module is 0014, kernel module is 0010.
<GrueMaster> what happened?
<davidm> It is not any different then RC-2
<GrueMaster> Unfortunately, RC2 slipped in under the radar.  I didn't know about it or RC3 until this morning's meeting.
<GrueMaster> But RC1 had all 0014 builds of the psb driver set.  That's why my concern.
<davidm> GrueMaster, the next kernel update release will have the latest drivers, we had to go out this way to get into the hardy upgrade tree which is a huge win long term for updates and upgrades.
<davidm> Unless you find some critical issue we are going to go final on this and go with the upgrade later, as I told Don last night.
<davidm> As far as I am concerned it's a release. 
<GrueMaster> amitk:  I'm downloading the -19 kernel now.  Do you know what version of the psb kernel module is in this?
<amitk> GrueMaster: 0016
<GrueMaster> I see that now, thanks.  Looks ok so far.  I sent you an email.
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-13
<lool> asac: Hey
<lool> asac: How are you doing?
<lool> asac: So, let's move the mbf discussion here
<lool> asac: I think the SVG issue might be specific to 1.8
<lool> So perhaps we should try moving to 1.9 before investigating
<lool> asac: So, I think you said we could either write a xul app or fix the security checks
<lool> asac: Did you hear from upstream about them?
<lool> asac: I think you traced the problem of xul 1.9's mbf to be some security nest clearing the javascript vars before being passed to the html
<asac> lool: we could do a xul application out of this mobile-basic-flash thing.
<asac> not yet sure how to best interface with the hildondesktop API though
<lool> asac: Ok
<asac> lool: how does mbf interact with hildon desktop?
<asac> does it just send "start X", start Y?
<lool> asac: So instead of setting up a gtk_mozembed thing, it would create a xul thing?
<asac> lool: basically yes.
<asac> lool: i have to look at the code
<asac> let me get that
<lool> asac: It basically receives events from being a HD plugin I think, and it triggers launching of app
<lool> Like "app foo starting"
<lool> (from a quick grep)
<lool> asac: http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu/pool/main/m/mobile-basic-flash/mobile-basic-flash_0.44-0ubuntu4.dsc
<lool> asac: Do you think we should start from the moblin (tip) version?
<asac> lool: what kind of events does it need to deal with?
<lool> asac: From hildon?  not many I think
<asac> yes from hildon
<lool> Things like X events or home plugins change notifications
<lool> asac: But we could simply keep all of this in the current C code, no?
<lool> asac: Hmm perhaps we should think carefully at which version we port
<zamba> is it possible to install ubuntu-mobile on a sony ericsson p1i?
<lool> asac: Currently there are three main trees, 1) moblin 2) UME 3) MSG
<lool> asac: MSG people had to bridge sound events triggerred by actions in their flash movie
<lool> asac: Do you have access to their tree?  they changed it a whole lot
<lool> asac: So perhaps the safest is to take tip, and then port to downstreams?
<lool> And moblin's tree is at moblin.org:/home/repos/projects/mobile-basic-flash.git
<asac> lool: i have to think about it
<asac> cant tell whats really the best way to go on
<lool> asac: Ok; what about the SVG issue?  Did SVG work fine in 1.8?
<asac> lool: afaik it works in firefox 2
<lool> asac: Basically MBF calls gtk to get the icon pathname
<asac> so it should work in 1.8
<lool> Then inserts the HTML snippet in the DOM with an <img> pointing at it (I guess)
<lool> This works for pngs, but with svg it displays once, disappears, displays a second time, disappears and I'm in an infinite loop somewhere
<asac> lool: interesting
<asac> lool: opening that pic in firefox-2 works fine?
<lool> asac: Dunno
<asac> thats certainly a thing you could try
<lool> (Installing it)
<asac> lool: backup your production firefox profile to prevent eventual mess when switching back and forward
<asac> (2.0 <-> 3.0)
<lool> I'm installing it on my Q1 where I don't run firefox
<lool> asac: Works fine from firefox-2
<lool> But then the HTML might cause the SVG to be resized or something
<lool> the image is loaded with a background-image: css property
<asac> hmm
<asac> might make a difference
<lool> asac: I tried reproducing with      <object data='/usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/update-manager.svg' width='48' height='48' ></object>
<lool> To no luck yet
<asac> lool: didnt you say that mbf is using <img tags?
<lool> It was just a guess
<lool> Looking at the actual html, it uses <object data="">
<lool> asac: All my test from firefox-2 work fine :-(
<lool> I even have the javascript working and all
<lool> asac: Oh, it doesn't work at all in my firefox 3 here
<asac> http://www.w3schools.com/svg/svg_examples.asp
<asac> those work for me
<lool> asac: SVG works
<lool> asac: I mean the javascript of mbf
<asac> yeah
<lool> It works fine with SVG loading and all in firefox-2
<asac> thats why its broken with xulrunner 1.9 :)
<lool> (it hangs mbf)
<lool> asac: So in 1.9, it seems desktop_mgr.js is the culprit
<lool> asac: Did you pinpoint where?
<asac> lool: afaict its everly load_url("javascript:...") that is not working
<asac> in the .cpp code
<asac> what does desktop_mgr.js do?
<lool> The <script type="text/javascript" src="grid_home.js"> are rejected too
<lool> In fact it's not specific to the .js
<lool> Missing </script>!
<lool> This works   <script type='text/javascript' src="desktop_mgr.js"/></script>
<asac> lool: cool does it fix it?
<lool> I have no idea, I don't have the xul 1.9 build
<lool> If you have a 1.9 xul mbf binary, I could try it out
<lool> asac: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/mobile-basic-flash/home.html
<asac> let me check master
<asac> i think the xul 1.9 changes are already committed there
<lool> They are
 * lool grabs xul1.9-dev
<asac> lool: you need to patch configure.ac
<asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/19856/
<lool> asac: Ok; git log says they applied your patch
<lool> Right, that looks more like it
<asac> lool: oh ... no all is fine i think
<lool> Ah, I applied your patch
<lool> Ok: reverted; autogen
<asac> lool: good
<lool> git is so cool
<asac> hush
<lool> git clean -df; git reset --hard HEAD :)
<asac> i just used git checkout configure.ac :)
<asac> but resetting is nice ... especially that you can commit -c ORIG_HEAD :)
<lool> asac: It's empty, unfortunately
<lool> asac: Anyway, I think bspencer demonstrated how lower level calls were failing already
<lool> What I spotted was just another bug, later down, but it's not the xul 1.9 blocker :-/
<asac> lool: right. its the load_url("javascript..." thing that doesnt work
<lool> Yeah
<asac> lool: i would instantly debug this if we could make a plain gtk window out of it and put the mbf widget in it
<asac> so i can drop the whole hildon stuff and reduce the testcase to a developer friendly complexity
<lool> asac: Ok
<asac> lool: maybe we can just make "home_plugin" a GtkWindow?
<lool> That's what I'm looking at
<lool> MobileBasicHomePlugin could be instanciated
<asac> (in _plugin_init i mean)
<lool> Good idea, perhaps you can try that
<asac> hmmm the MobileBasicHomePlugin is a custom widget from what i can tell
<lool> I'm looking at home_screen_changed(), it seems to do the init we want
<asac> ah no ... i am wrong ... i looked at wrong struct. its derived from HildonDesktopHomeItem
<lool> I think we could change home_screen_changed() to use a GtkWindow instead of a GdkWindow
<asac> lool: the mozembed widget is added to home_plugin in plugin_init
<asac> so i think just changing home_screen_changed is not enough
<asac> lool: http://paste.ubuntu.com/19864/
<asac> thats ugly but it starts a window somehow
<asac> ok you would also require a hacky patch like http://paste.ubuntu.com/19865/ to test in-source html
<lool> asac: I'm doing the same thing ATM :)
<asac> they should honour ATM :)
<asac> ouch
<asac> honour DATADIR
<asac> or something
<lool> http://paste.ubuntu.com/19866/ is what I was doing
<lool> funny how we have basically the same thing
<asac> lool: did you switch to GtkWindow parent class too?
<lool> No, I was doing that
<asac> for me its all black now
<asac> is that the bug?
<lool> asac: i'll have to drop off for lunch now; since you're further than I have with a GtkWindow displayed, could you continue investigating? :)
<lool> asac: Yes that's the bug
<lool> asac: You get any stderr output?
<asac> lool: http://paste.ubuntu.com/19867/
<asac> export NSPR_LOG_MODULES=all:5
<asac> will show that
<asac> so its obvious. gtkmozembed doesnt support javascript: in load_url anymore
<lool> asac: Good stuff
<lool> asac: Are you sure it's not the function missing?
<lool> asac: Did you change the <script src=""/> into <script></script>?
<asac> let me check if there is some error before
<lool> Cause that was blocking my firefox (xul 1.9) to render the page I handed you
<asac> lool: it works ;)
<asac> it was the script thing
<lool> asac: Cool
<asac> lool: http://paste.ubuntu.com/19868/
<lool> Yeah
<asac> but with that patch its not working for you?
<asac> i mean the real build?
<lool> asac: I was a bit hackish: I built from mbolin git and copied the .so over my installed plygin
<lool> Perhaps I misbuilt it
<lool> asac: Could you rebase the patch atop the .dsc I handed you?
<lool> http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu/pool/main/m/mobile-basic-flash/mobile-basic-flash_0.44-0ubuntu4.dsc
<asac> lool: no ... that thing is not xul 1.9 ready
<asac> we need  master from what i can tell
<asac> and the xul 1.9 patch cannot be easily rebased. i would have to redo it i think
<asac> better git merge master on the packaging tree i guess
<asac> let me see how far i get when trying to merge that thing on the hardy branch
<lool> Ok; we don't have a packaging git tree sadly, but I'll try to look into that
<lool> I really need to cook lunch for my wife now, she's complaining that she's hungry
<asac> lool: there is a hardy branch
<asac> why not put all the packaging files in there
<emgent> heya
<asac> afaict its just a few files missing
<asac> for instance no debian/changelog ;)
<asac> but debian/ dir exists
<asac> and debian/rules
<asac> ok hardy branch building
<asac> lets see
<asac> lool: hmmm ... you probably cannot use the binaries from amd64?
<asac> lool: pleaes checkout hardy branch and apply http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/mbf.hardy-to-latest.patch
<asac> that should be the latest
<asac> changelog version might be wrong
<asac> lool: let me know if this works
<asac> ill take a break now
<asac> lool: if that works, I'll just commit it to moblin i guess
<lool> asac: It doesn't apply unfortunately
<lool> asac: What do you mean with hardy branch?
<lool> origin/hardy oh
<lool> I don't have access to this
<lool> asac: it's not in sync with the ppa .dsc sadly
<lool> I guess they created it when they moved packaging out of master
<lool> But we can't ensure that uploaded packages and git branches are in sync unless we have commit access, and we didn't get commit access
<lool> asac: In the ppa, the source is still named .c for instance
<lool> asac: I'm kicking a build of hardy branch + your patch to at least see whether it works
<asac> lool: yes try that branch. i dont see that we can quickly fix 0.44
<asac> if we know that it works we can do the work if we require a backport for hardy
<asac> but first lets check if it works in theory ;)
<lool> I came to the same conclusion
<asac> lool: i have commit access
<asac> you too?
<lool> checking for MOZEMBED... configure: error: Package requirements (mozilla-gtkmozembed-embedding >= 1.8.1) were not met:
<asac> lool: xulrunner-1.9-dev is required
<asac> for me:
<asac>  pkg-config --cflags mozilla-gtkmozembed-embedding
<asac> -DXPCOM_GLUE -fshort-wchar -I/usr/include/xulrunner-1.9/unstable -I/usr/include/nspr  
<lool> asac: I'm pbuilding my lpia binaries
<lool> The hardy branch was bdeping on libxul-dev
<asac> lool: ok ... yeah changed build-depends from libxul-dev to xulrunner-1.9-dev
<asac> lool: forgot to include that in the diff i guess
<lool> drwxrwsr-x  8 nobody    dev-mbf       4096 Jul 26  2007 mobile-basic-flash.git
<lool> I'm only in group devel, so basically no commit access
<lool> You're in dev-brow dev-ma
<lool> asac: I don't think you have commit access anymore
<asac> oh ok. they have per project permissions
<lool> You have mobile-browser.git and moblin-applets.git
<asac> yeah. what is the "all" group?
<lool> no idea
<asac> ;)
<asac> ill ask bob if he wants me to commit the mobile-basic-flash fixes ;)
<lool> asac: I think it just WORKED !
<asac> cool
<lool> I'm not sure I believe it
<asac> yay \o/
<lool> Uh
<lool> libxul0d
<asac> lool: he?
<lool> asac: It's still using 1.8
<asac> hmm
<asac> lool: you have the link line?
<lool> Oh wait
<lool> hardcoded in control
<lool> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, libxul0d, libwnck22
<asac> lool: ldd src/mobilebasichome  | grep libxu
<asac> nothing
<asac> lool: yeah ... thats just packaging ;)
 * asac fixes that in his git clone
<lool> ldd /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/libmobilebasichome.so | grep xul => empty
<lool> Once I'll have removed the dep, I'll simply wipe libxul0d and see whether it starts :)
<asac> ok i have fixed it
<asac> here in git
<asac> ill ask bob about committing :)
<lool> asac: It's fixed in the ppa's packaging too
<asac> lool: ok cool
<asac> so all is fine?
<asac> (once all is committed upstream?)
<lool> asac: Sure, then Bob needs to release a tarball and not upload it to ppa
<lool> It's going to be very painful to sync the mobile-basic-flash stuff; it never used a patch system and was forked over and over
<lool> Only thing installed is xulrunner-1.9 and it comes up!
<lool> asac: So this is good to go
<asac> lool: what changes do we have for mobile-basic-flash?
<lool> asac: So the only change to complete support was that stupid <script> syntax?
<asac> yeah ;)
<lool> asac: The problem is I don't quite know
<lool> asac: I'll have to diff stuff between git and ppa
<lool> It's very painful I can tell you
<lool> i did it for other modules, it takes hours
<lool> If we had been able to use git, or simply a patch system, we wouldn't have this problem
<asac> lool: why dont at least work on your own git tree?
<asac> i mean you can push it to rookery or somewhere
<asac> or use the bzr git plugin ;)
<asac> (read-only yes, but for this purpose it would be good enough i guess)
<lool> asac: I inherited that situation
<lool> asac: Also, everybody needs to be able to change it
<lool> And people found bzr too complex already, so I didn't want to force git or git->bzr usage
<lool> So you need a place where Intel and Ubuntu people can commit, where it's easy to change things, and then you need to do the import
<lool> (of Ubuntu specific changes)
<lool> pmcgowan: When you're around... :)
<lool> pmcgowan: We have a fix for the xulrunner 1.9 move
<lool> asac: I tried SVG with XUL 1.9
<lool> asac: It /works/!
<lool> asac: But it blinks
<lool> asac: You still have your GtkWindow hack?
<lool> asac: Could you change the gtk_icon_theme_lookup_icon() calls to pass (GtkIconLookupFlags)0 instead of GTK_ICON_LOOKUP_NO_SVG and change the gtk_icon_theme_prepend_search_path() in an gtk_icon_theme_append_search_path()?
<lool> asac: This should give you SVG support
<asac> err
<asac> sorry, i cant follow
<asac> do you want that hack so you can test?
<asac> lool: send mail to bob with you cc'ed
<lool> asac: Argh
<pmcgowan> lool, cool whats the fix?
<lool> asac: Just found a regression on the new MBF
<asac> lool: regression?
<lool> pmcgowan: Change <script/> to <script></script> in the *.html
<lool> asac: I can't change categories
<lool> asac: You have a Q1?
<asac> lool: yeah, but no good keyboard
<asac> so doing things is cumbersome
<lool> asac: You can ssh to it!
<pmcgowan> lool, simple enough, our html may not even have that issue
<asac> lool: hehe
<asac> yeah
<lool> pmcgowan: The rest of the required changes are in the moblin git
<lool> pmcgowan: autotools stuff, renaming, etc.
<lool> asac: If you prefer, you can build a VM
<lool> asac: That's easy to do nowadays
<asac> lool: with virtual box?
<lool> asac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall
<lool> asac: Even if virtualbox if you like
<lool> s/if/with
<asac> lool: i wont be able to really work on more things today
<asac> lool: i have to do something and then prepare for a different battle of real life ;)
<lool> pmcgowan: This will probably enhance hildon desktop startup time (it did for me) and will certainly reduce midbrowser startup time
<asac> but I'll be here during weekend
<lool> asac: Ah, sad to read this
<asac> given that you are usually on irc as well, we can certainly continue then
<lool> asac: I'll try to grab bspencer
<lool> I'm not sure I'll have much time this WE
<asac> lool: yeah ... i send the mail, so you can jump in there i guess
<asac> maybe wait if he replies :)
<lool> I kind of neglected preparations for the coming baby, and have plenty of things to do in the last days
<asac> lool: i suggested Co-Maintainer from Ubuntu to commit to moblin branches
<asac> lool: oh. ok. better stay off on the weekend then
<asac> lool: baby is more important that Ubuntu-Baby ;)
<lool> I'll probably be around a little anyway
<asac> s/that/than/
<asac> I knew that ;) ... how can't you be around the whole weekend?
<lool> Plus, the final is built already :-/
<lool> Too bad we didn't find out before final
<asac> lool: yeah. lack of time. i asked bob to test in firefox
<asac> that would have given us the hint
<asac> i never received anything back
<lool> asac: Well it's how I found about it
<lool> I tested in firefox-2, in midbrowser; the console errors helped me catch the error
<asac> right ... thats why i am saying that
<lool> I then tried to alert("foo");, and it was obvious
<asac> bad luck ;) ... the ideas were there; just nobody did it :)
<asac> lool: but we decided that its ok to do the migration in a stable update
<lool> asac: Ideally, could you throw your hack for GtkWindow as a patch to mbf?  It would allow to -DMAIN_WINDOW or something to get an executable
<lool> asac: Did we decide that?  Hmm
<lool> Probably we did
<asac> lool: yes. two weeks ago or so in mobile meeting
<asac> the question came up: "is mbf with xul 1.8 a blocker"
<lool> Okay, I'm sorry my memory is leaky, but I certainly prefer xul 1.9 if it works
<asac> and i answered that i would maintain xul 1.8 security wise for a while and we could later upgrade to 1.9
<lool> We'll have to iron out why categories don't work anymore
<lool> (but launching does)
<lool> So .cpp -> xul works and vice-versa
<lool> asac: Right, I recall now
<asac> yes
<asac> .cpp should also work with 1.8
<asac> not sure why we dont have that in .0.44
<lool> Dunno
<lool> Anyway, first lets get it upstream, fix it for other issues (categories), then merge, then backport :)
<lool> persia: .svg works with xul 1.9 if you were wondering :)
<lool> I'm not too interested in chasing 1.8 to fix svg rendering
<pmcgowan> lool, thats good, I will have Bill or Michael contact you later
<lool> pmcgowan: asac mailed bspencer; we need to test the upstream patch fully, it seems it has a small regression
<pmcgowan> lool, ok, what was regression?
<lool> pmcgowan: categories not working
<lool> pmcgowan: (marquee menu)
<asac> lool: categories like filtering on menu click?
<asac> lool: you can set
<asac> export NSPR_LOG_MODULES=all:5
<asac> and NSPR_LOG_FILE=/tmp/output
<asac> and then see what happens if you click the menu
<pmcgowan> lool, may not effect our custom build
<asac> lool: or use bspencers instructions to get output from the hildon-desktop plugin stdout/err and just set NSPR_LOG_MODULES
<asac> but i thin the NSPR_LOG_FILE=... thing is easier to setup and test
<lool> asac: Yes, categories are filters for the displayed apps
<lool> asac: Sure, will try that
<mterry> For UME, where in our scripts is the most appropriate place to set a global environment variable like $BROWSER?
<mterry> lool: I can never remember what I'm supposed to do after attaching a debdiff to an LP bug.  This one's yours (LP #191064).  If I hadn't poked you on IRC, would I need to set some further setting so it'd get your notice?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 191064 in ume-config-common "Set midbrowser as the default URL handler for HTTPS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191064
<The_Niz> \o
<The_Niz> lo
<The_Niz> is ubuntu-mobile x86 targeted or also other devices?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-14
<bspencer> asac: 
<persia> lool: Cool!  I'm still interested in gtkxembed & the launcher, but having support for SVG ought make intrepid look heaps better.
<fabiosarts> hi
<fabiosarts> can i build an UME envirroment on an x86 based computer?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-06-15
<Zic> !deowner
<ubottu> Factoid deowner not found
<Zic> !deop
<ubottu> Factoid deop not found
<Zic> DÃ©solÃ© erreur d'amsg multiserveur / Error of /amsg command on multiserver, sorry
<eth01> do any of you guys know a peanutb?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-08
<xiroV> Hi everyone
<xiroV> Does anyone know if i can install ubuntu on my nokia 5800? 
<lamalex> Hey guys, is there a way to get the launcher to appear in the pager?
<metalfan_> hi
<metalfan_> ive tried to install the intel poulsbo driver via dpkg by hand, it failed. now after adding the mobile repo and running "sudo aptitude install psb-modules" i get:  http://pastebin.com/m3ea415e6        any idea how to go on from here?
<metalfan_> trying this in jaunty
<filipegarcia> can anyone help me with a LG L1730SF in jaunty mobile ?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-09
<pan1nx> persia, what is the Architecture target for the ARM drop? ARM what? ARM 9? What toolchain is used to build those packages?
<persia> pan1nx, I'm not sure what you mean by "ARM drop".  I know Jaunty worked on ARMv5t+.  I hear that the requirements will be higher for karmic, but haven't examined the gcc and glibc changes in detail.
<persia> The toolchain is just the standard Ubuntu toolchain.  apt-get source is your friend.
<persia> (plus #ubuntu-arm is probably a better place to ask, and may be more likely to have people who know the real details).
<pan1nx> thanks persia...
<amitk> pan1nx: karmic will probably be ARMv6+VFP+NEON
<pan1nx> thanks amitk
<pan1nx> amitk is there a place where I can read a statement about this?
<amitk> pan1nx: you should probably look at the blueprints and spec for UDS Karmic.
<pan1nx> maybe lool knows more :D
<pan1nx> but he is away....
<lamalex> Any of the netbook launcher people around?
<lamalex> if I mess with the launcher on my laptop, it seems to be ok with compositing, but on a netbook it freaks out
<lamalex> any idea why?
<persia> lamalex, Which video card does the device with issues have?
<lamalex> persia: intel 945gme
<persia> Ah, then I'm not sure.  Some people have the psb chipset, which ends up having some issues sometimes.
<lamalex> yah
<lamalex> it /should/ work though?
<lamalex> another question- a while ago the netbook launcher would show up in the alt-tab pager
<lamalex> this was removed, any idea how to get it back?
<persia> Yes, it *should* work.
<persia> (and no, I have no idea how to make the launcher appear/not appear in the application-switcher)
<persia> Well, stab-in-the-dark: there might be some gconf key.
<lamalex> njpatel:ping
<njpatel> lamalex: pong
<lamalex> njpatel: do you know where i can find the metacity patch to show the unr launcher in the alt-tab menu?
<njpatel> lamalex: sure, one sec
<njpatel> lamalex: http://pastebin.com/m6d9be3a5
<lamalex> youre the man
<lamalex> so this has been removed from UNR now?
<njpatel> lamalex: some patches couldn't make it into distro without a bunch of work (this one needs a gconf key etc so it's optional), I just ran out of time
<lamalex> right on
<lamalex> thanks for the help :)
<njpatel> lamalex: I did make a metacity package for jaunty in the netbook-remix-team PPA, which I just realised doesn't have this patch, so I'm sending up a new package now which includes this (and it already includes a patch that fixes the annoying 23px missing at the bottom of some maximised windows)
<njpatel> np, thanks for reminding me about it :)
<lamalex> oh, nice
<lamalex> you just saved me some work
<njpatel> cool, new package should hit the PPA in a bit
<lamalex> thanks dude, you're the man
<lamalex> njpatel: what did you name the package? metacity?
<njpatel> lamalex: metacity - 1:2.25.144-0ubuntu2-0jaunty2 (https://edge.launchpad.net/~netbook-remix-team/+archive/ppa)
<njpatel> it's still buildng/publishing I think
<lamalex> ah, wrong team ppa
<lamalex> i rule
<njpatel> heh :)
<lamalex> njpatel: so i installed your package, but i dont see the gconf key
<njpatel> lamalex: there isn't one...that's why it isn't in the main package
<lamalex> ah
<njpatel> lamalex: at the moment it's hardcoded to do that, which sucks, but it's a time thing
<lamalex> then i dont see the alt-tab option
<lamalex> no
<lamalex> im just stupid
<lamalex> :)
<njpatel> :)
<lool> amitk: Concerning toolchain, I'm not sure we'll turn on NEON in the compiler; it's currently worthless and I don't expect it will have an high impact soon, but it does exclude some platforms as NEON is optional (AIUI)
<lool> amitk: But otherwise you were correct: v6 + vfp
<lool> as soon as we have buildd
<amitk> lool: what do you mean by "but it does exclude some platforms as NEON is optional"?
<lool> amitk: I think you can implement a cortex a8 platform with vfp but without neon
<amitk> lool: aah, I understand now.
<lool> It's not what we typically target though
<rzr__> yet an other distro (maemo+ubuntu) for FreeRunner -  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mer
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-10
<dublin> Does anyone know how to get external video working for a Q1-Ultra running either Ubuntu MID Edition or Ubuntu Netbook Remix?
<dublin> Does anyone know how to get external video working for a Q1-Ultra running either Ubuntu MID Edition or Ubuntu Netbook Remix?
<dublin> I can't find any docs on how to turn on external video.
<ian_brasil> dublin: i am not sure that is available on MID
<dublin> ian_brasil: bummer.  Don't know why it wouldn't be.  I just found docs on XRandR, I may try that.  The Q1U supports external video in Windows, so it *should* be possible in Linux...
<ian_brasil> i am sure it is possible i just meant that i don't think it is enabled by default ..i could be wrong though as 1. I do not have a Q1U and 2 I never tried to get video out working
<ian_brasil> i would however be interested if you did get it working
<dublin> I'm pretty sure there's no wa to do it through the GUI.  XRandR may give me a CLI method, but I can't try until later this afternoon...
<ian_brasil> wait..i am sure i remember Mithrandir using a Q1 with an external screen
 * persia is hours late, but notes that the issue with MID and external screens is only a UI issue
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-11
<mib_cnwudq> ogra: hey there
<mib_cnwudq> ogra: this is lool
<mib_cnwudq> NCommander, Gruemaster, ogra: we're still working on bringing up the line
<ogra> lool-, ok
<lool-> ogra: should now be open
 * ogra dials in
<mib_16kc75> G'day
<persia> lool, Thanks for the last pointer last night: things are working well.
<mib_16kc75> Who am I now
<lool-> persia: I don't recall which pointer
<lool-> persia: the ATAG changes?
<persia> Right.
<lool-> Hmm I thought it wouldn't be enough for 512 M
<persia> I'll let you know when you're less distracted (and testing is complete)
<lool-> (I would get an error message from the qemu allocation and the Xandros person told me that wasn't enough)
<lool-> Anyway, I'm happy if it works
<ogra> lool-, any chance you can join #mobile ?
<plars> ogra: we don't have real irc client access here, have to use mibbit
<ogra> hrm, k, would be good to know which slide is up, manjo told us in tue
<ogra> *on
<plars> ogra: come to #mobile-meeting so we don't spam the channel
<plars> and I'll try to update you on which slide we are on
<bjf> #ubuntu-mobile
<persia> bjf, ?
<bjf> persia: typo
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-12
<BUGabundo> hello
<BUGabundo> since when is UNR an ISO and not an img ?
<BUGabundo> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook-remix/daily-live/current/
 * BUGabundo looks that the user list to see who to ping
<BUGabundo> lool: ping ^^^^
<GrueMaster> BUGabundo: UNR became an ISO shortly after UDS.  To make a bootable USB drive from it in Jaunty, install and use usb-creator.  We hope to have a Windows version of this utility before Beta.
<BUGabundo> ok
<BUGabundo> just giving the link to Ursinha
<BUGabundo> and since it was an iso, found it strange, since it used to be img
<BUGabundo> now I need to update my rsync scripts for this
<BUGabundo> GrueMaster: thanks
<GrueMaster> One think to note, it is much slower at the moment due to the filesystem used for the live image.  It will recover when the new 2.6.31 kernel is released (from what I've been told).
<BUGabundo> ok
<BUGabundo> will note that
<GrueMaster> The reasoning behind an ISO is that it is easier & cheaper to give out cd's at trade shows.
<BUGabundo> err
<BUGabundo> sure
<BUGabundo> but img was easier and faster to put on flash
<GrueMaster> yea, I know.  Lame argument, but I'm not in marketing.  :P
<BUGabundo> aahah
<BUGabundo> at least I hope for releases we will have both
<GrueMaster> Since usb-creator will make a bootable usb drive and it is being ported to Windows, that's highly unlikely.
<BUGabundo> err
<BUGabundo> I've been keeping taps on that
<BUGabundo> but lossing img just for marketing is bad
<BUGabundo> is there enough critical mass to start yet another Holly War Bug ?
<GrueMaster> As long as there is an easy way to port the ISO to a USB drive and make it bootable, who cares?
<GrueMaster> The rest is semantics.
<BUGabundo> yeah
<BUGabundo> the rest is Geek
<BUGabundo> dd is so more nice then GUI
<BUGabundo> lol
<GrueMaster> I think you can still use that.  Haven't tested it.  The theory is that the ISO should still work as an IMG as well.
<BUGabundo> oohhhh that's nice
<BUGabundo> let me wget it and test
<plars> GrueMaster: who said the iso would work to directly dd onto a usb stick?
<plars> I don't think that should work
<GrueMaster> I thought that came up in UDS.
 * BUGabundo ducks
<metalfan_> hi
<metalfan_> after adding the mobile repository, which package do i install to get poulsbo support in jaunty?
<metalfan_> got a fit-pc2 from compulab, its a "desktop pc"...no netbook
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-13
<persia> metalfan_, poulsbo-driver-2d and poulsbo-driver-3d are convenience metapackages.
<persia> GrueMaster, plars: it is theoretically possible to construct an image that can boot both optical media and mass-storage, but that requires changing the bootloader.  I don't believe isolinux can boot mass-storage or syslinux boot from optical media.  I have no idea if such bootloader changes are planned for the kamic cycle.
<plars> persia: yep, I just know in the current state it will not work
<metalfan_> ive added http://ppa.launchpad.....ubuntu jaunty as third party sources, but "sudo aptitude search poulsbo-driver-2d" returns no results?
<metalfan_> what acceleration can i expect, is support for hd1080p included?
<persia> metalfan_, Sorry.  Looking more carefully, it appears that only got uploaded to intrepid.  Try xserver-xorg-video-psb (I'm not sure that's complete, but it ought help some).
<metalfan_> persia, syslinux can boot from optical media, seen it before
<metalfan_> persia, theres also grub
<julius> hi
<julius> i installed xserver-xorg-video-psb  to get poulsbo gfx support in jaunty (from ubuntu mobile repos), installation went fine but now the first xorg start fails with: "..cant find module Xpsb..."   which package did i miss?
<julius> looks like xserver-xorg-video-psb is missing a dependency
<julius> theres a package called "xpsb-glx" for ubuntu 8.04....whys there no 9.04 version?
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-06-14
<netBoss> Hi every one
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-06-17
<willwork4foo> Hi all
