#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-26
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Dell has a bad habit of completely removing pages from their web site while they update them, so every few months some blog goes all "Dell stopped selling Ubuntu, ZOMG!" and everyone freaks out, only to pretend not to notice when it comes back a week later.
<kermit> haha
<Takyoji> hah http://www.instructables.com/id/Ultra-TV-B-Gone/
 * Takyoji finally bought a wireless adapter; now to wait a few weeks/months to get it all the way from China. :P
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-27
<h00k> ripps: whoo hoo!http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/nautilus-elementary-ppa-for-ubuntu-1010.html
<h00k> "Shouts out, as ever, to the ace ammonkey and, for this Maverick-y packaging in particular, Taylor "Ripps" LeMasurier-Wren.
<h00k> "
<_diablo> Are there any ongoing Ubuntu Hours?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-28
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: not that I'm aware of.
<tonyyarusso> We kind of dropped the ball on that one.
<tonyyarusso> it's soo hot....
<Takyoji> but isn't it raining heavily right now? :P
<tonyyarusso> not at the moment - was about an hour ago
<Takyoji> Ahh, it just started in Faribault about 5 minutes ago.
<kermit> wow it cooled off fast
<kermit> 20 degrees in about 2 hours
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, now if it can just do that two more times I'll be happy.
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: 31 F in July is not okay
<tonyyarusso> sure it is
<tonyyarusso> My room is still 29C :(
<sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: That's because you're running about 10 computers in it.
<tonyyarusso> No I'm not.  There are only four running.
<Obsidian1723> Anyone know a way to test a bash script, a simulation mode for error checking?
<tonyyarusso> VMs :P
<Obsidian1723> meh. Its an install script, so I dont want to download a ton of stuff just to test.
<kermit> obsid<tab>: set -n
<tonyyarusso> tabfail
<kermit> forum ettiquitte fail
<_diablo> tonyyarusso: what is your computer ownership breakdown? (laptop/desktop/server)
<_diablo> I have 2 dedicated servers and am struggling to find uses for them.
<_diablo> <-- networking n00b that is starting to get his feet wet.
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: 2 ancient desktops that function solely as occasional network practice / play machines (PII, but 4 NICs each), 1 laptop, 1 netbook, 2 nettops that function as low-power server, 1 nettop that functions as a desktop, 1 desktop that's out of commision for a hardware problem, 1 nice desktop, 1 really tiny nettop strapped to a small LCD monitor as a portable somethingorother (good for presentations), and one Nokia mini ...
<tonyyarusso> ... internet tablet.
<tonyyarusso> plus a VPS
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: I'm in a similar position of having equipment that's not yet entirely deployed due to time constraints, but some of the services I either am running or will be running at home include:
<Obsidian1723> what ya need al lthat for?
<tonyyarusso> NFS, BIND, Squid, DHCP, IMAP syncer, NTP, always-on Pidgin, Nagios, and DAAP
<Obsidian1723> for a home system?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-29
<tonyyarusso> yup
<Takyoji> So, boys and girls
<Takyoji> I'll be getting a new phone.
<tonyyarusso> oh?  what?
<Takyoji> I haven't decided on the specific model
<Takyoji> Specifically Verizon as a provider
<kermit> n900
<tonyyarusso> N900 doesn't work on Verizon kermit (or else I'd probably have one)
<kermit> change providers then
<kermit> :P
<tonyyarusso> The other providers have crappy coverage.
<Takyoji> and I have 5 choices: http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=phoneFirst&action=viewPhoneOverviewByDevice&deviceType=3G%20Smartphones#
<kermit> you must buy it from them?
<Takyoji> Those are the choices as of Android-based options
<Takyoji> I'd assume that if you bought the phone directly from a vendor it'd be full price..
<Takyoji> rather than being a deducted upfront cost with a 2-year contract
<Takyoji> My only reason for a smartphone would be for SSH and a web browser
<Takyoji> and perhaps some web development
<Takyoji> and could use GPS in some cases
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: sounds like either the Droid Incredible or Droid X.
<tonyyarusso> I wouldn't count on any of them for GPS though - I have little confidence phone GPS is any good.
<Takyoji> GPS is non-essential to me
<Takyoji> I think I might just choose "LG Ally"
<Takyoji> Most battery life, cheaper, QWERTY keyword, touchscreen, though just a 600MHz processor in comparison to the others which are 1GHz
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: http://blogs.computerworld.com/16608/dell_expands_ubuntu_linux_desktop_offerings
<Takyoji> Saw it
 * tonyyarusso does a tiny "I told you so" dance
<tonyyarusso> Not that you argued with me or anything, but hey
<Takyoji> HDMI connection on a friggen smartphone, that's just insane..
<tonyyarusso> saywhatnow?  That's crazy.
<Takyoji> http://static.arstechnica.com/droidx/droidx_review_leftside.jpg
<Takyoji> Yay for the Android SDK
<Takyoji> Isn't Android purely Java?
<Takyoji> Ahh, C/C++ for the core, Java for the UI
<Takyoji> So are most of you skeptical against GNOME 3? :P
<Takyoji> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/07/gnome-3-not-ready-yet-release-pushed-back-to-2011.ars
<tonyyarusso> lol
<tonyyarusso> anyone interested in purchasing a ThinkPad with an intermittent hardware issue?
<Takyoji> What model? :P
<Takyoji> also, what hardware issue? :P
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: T43
<tonyyarusso> I think there's either a slight crack in the motherboard or a solder connection or something like that.
<tonyyarusso> It will occasionally become non-responsive, but either whacking it, rocking it back and forth, or pressing gently on the right side of the wrist rest makes it go again.
<tonyyarusso> I should probably pull it apart to see if it's something obvious first, but it is getting close to time for a new laptop anyway.
<tonyyarusso> I wonder if the hard drive just got unseated or something
<Takyoji> I really need to donate to Wikipedia; it's like a crucial part of my life as an information repository
<Takyoji> Does VMs in QEMU typically appear a little slow ever?
<Takyoji> I feel like I'm getting like 10fps as of this Android VM
<Takyoji> through the Android Emulator; which is basically QEMU supposedly
<tonyyarusso> yes
 * tonyyarusso pulled it apart a bit, put it back together, making sure everything looked clean and tight
<tonyyarusso> Booted on the first try, so that's a pretty big improvement.
<kermit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/?&fq&fq[]=trove:679
 * Takyoji fails to catch what relevance Tivozation has to the second provided URL
<tonyyarusso> And I can type without pausing to press the palmrest to make things appear on the screen - yay!
<tonyyarusso> Appears to at least be temporarily resolved.
<kermit> the second URL is a sourceforge search for GPLv3 projects
<kermit> unless the link didnt work for you.. try this one http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/?&fq&fq%5B%5D=trove:679
<tonyyarusso> You know, I would like using the GPL a lot more if it weren't so *long*.
<tonyyarusso> I mean, it kind of requires a largish project to feel like it's even worth the bit-space for the text.
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: even though it works now, I could see myself selling this in the nearish future if you were interested.
<Takyoji> GPL v3 has provisions avoiding the possibility of Tivoization, correct?
<tonyyarusso> yes
<Takyoji> So I take it the licenses you prefer, are ones that aren't "free software licenses"? :P
<tonyyarusso> hrm?  Why would you say that?
<kermit> haha like the BSD license?  it has its uses i guess
<tonyyarusso> the BSD license is a free software license.
<tonyyarusso> (I actually like the terms of the GPL, just not the verbosity)
<Takyoji> ahh, it's the modified BSD license that's GPL-approved
<Takyoji> The original wasn't
<tonyyarusso> well yeah, the original was dumb, and has been retracted by its author.
<Takyoji> I'm trying to remember, Apache licensing has something against abusing software patents, correct?
<tonyyarusso> I think so, yes.
 * Takyoji leaves for the night
<kermit> "patent retalliation"
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-30
<Takyoji> Yay, I have good karma tonight
<Takyoji> I bought a used $13 LCD monitor with internal speakers for my mother's desktop
<Takyoji> She originally had a dying CRT monitor where one or two of the cathodes were a bit weak (and couldn't be compensated via the monitor settings)
<Takyoji> and replaced her ball-based mouse with an optical one
<Takyoji> I guess I might be getting a Palm Pre instead
<Takyoji> Actually, it just hit me
<Takyoji> F-Spot should have a plugin that makes it easy for uploading pictures to Facebook
<tonyyarusso> I thought it did?
<Takyoji> Doesn't seem to, be default
<Takyoji> by default*
<kermit> who wants to look at the worst resume they'ev ever seen!
<kermit> i'm so going to be flipping burgers
<Takyoji> Then show us already; in an open format. :P
<kermit> http://p133.azai.net/resume/
 * kermit hides in embarassment
<Takyoji> Monospaced? :P
<kermit> it needs to be shortened, i just finished adding everything i could think of
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> Once I finish my current volunteer projects, I'll have an actual resume/portfolio
<Takyoji> I haven't had anything for a showcase much at all aside from Aqua Eden, which is like 2-3 years old as of work
<Takyoji> I don't quite comprehend the differences between RBAC, MAC, and ACL
<Takyoji> or the concept of "role" and "group". I'm assuming that "role" is where it's all the privileges defined, and one-per-person. While group-based privileges are a few privileges defined (like tweaks) and many-per-user.
<Takyoji> Or perhaps roles are specific to an object, while group privileges are global
<_diablo> kermit: what is your main distro? ubuntu? seems odd that 'linux' gets 7 +s but all distros are below that
<kermit> _diablo: no other OSes are mentioned, what's odd?
<kermit> i use ubuntu on my laptop, slackware on my servers
<kermit> but if i made a new server it'd probably be ubuntu i guess
<kermit> no reason not to be
<kermit> the slack servers are 10 years old
<kermit> _diablo: and thanks for looking at it
<_diablo> kermit: huh? I see 2 distros (debian,slack) under it. And then 3 other OSs besides linux
<kermit> oh hm
<_diablo> anytime :)
<kermit> oh, there, i'll add ubunt, thanks
<kermit> i probbaly didnt list it becausue its not a skill
<kermit> ubuntu is too easy
<kermit> also, ubuntu is a debian derivative, debian generally is a skillset
<kermit> ie, the package management and boot up sequences are generally still debianish
<_diablo> I agree I guess, but since some distros are listed, seemed odd that linux would be higher than any of its subsets
<kermit> also i listed linux seperately because i'm pretty familiar with man(2) sections, the kernel calls
<kermit> and higher, as in, the particulars of distributions i'm not as familiar with
<kermit> ie, i know more about linux memory paging than dpkg
<kermit> i'll change it so its clearer, thanks
<_diablo> cool
<tonyyarusso> !enter
<lubotu1> Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
<tonyyarusso> :P
<_diablo> I've never understood that. It makes things much more clear and faster if people hit enter as they type
<kermit> i count a line as 70 characters in a channel moderator bot
<kermit> (in addition to the number of characters)
<_diablo> kermit: lol, love the essay :)
<kermit> _diablo: thanks
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-07-31
<Takyoji> So I guess I have a Palm Pre now
<Takyoji> It's interesting to think that it uses PulseAudio
<Takyoji> and libpurple for instant messaging
<Takyoji> http://opensource.palm.com/1.4.1.1/index.html
<Jason1> Anyone know where I can get the original sshd_config file?  I've corrupted mine.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-08-01
<kermit> Jason1: back yours up, remove and install the package
<kermit> your sshd connection wont die if yuo're remote
<Jason1> nothing will change until I do a restart right?
<Jason1> What about everyone's keys already in place?
<kermit> i think changes take effect immediately
<kermit> keys are stored in home dirs
<kermit> package management doest mess with home dirs
<Jason1> sudo apt-get remove openssh-server ??
<kermit> yeah, or aptitude
<kermit> no comment on the 'sudo' stuff
<Jason1> uninstall and reinstall left the sshd_config file intact
<kermit> ohh i think thats an option, to remove config files
<kermit> try purge instead of remove
<kermit> but that might kill your ssh connectio
<kermit> i'll try
<kermit> it doestn, so yeah try purge
<Jason1> that worked!  Thanks!
<Jason1> anyone in here?
<tonyyarusso> yup
<kermit> Jason1: it seems so
<_diablo> lol, seems like he didn't think you two were interesting ;)
<_diablo> server going down, be back later
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-07-25
<hoonkim> Hi
<hoonkim> d
<hoonkim> nobody here?
<hoonkim> good afternooooon
<tonyyarusso> Hi hoonkim
<hoonkim> hi
<hoonkim> how r u
<tonyyarusso> Sleepy, but otherwise fine.  Just got home from a week at camp.
<hoonkim> I am in the library and take a nap at the desk. Here is cool than my apartment.
<hoonkim> Apartment AC is broken I think.
<tonyyarusso> bummer
<tonyyarusso> We had to fix both house and car AC during the last hot spell.
<tonyyarusso> Home one was cheap; car not so much.
<hoonkim> But it is fine I will move to the ohter apartment soon. even cheaper but will be better
<hoonkim1> h
<hoonkim1> time to dinner
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-07-27
<Takyoji> Ugh, it just utterly sickens me to go into a local library, and see numerous computers throughout the building with Windows 7, ONLY to be used for viewing the online catalog system, and paying extra for a Windows license to be allowed to set a security policy of locking out people from accessing a terminal, or folder browser, or view system files, etc.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-07-28
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: You could bring up the wasteful expenditure at a county board meeting.
<Takyoji> I don't think it was a county decision however on that detail
<Takyoji> Moreso, the library's technology contractor
<Takyoji> Fette Electronics, I believe it is
<tonyyarusso> It doesn't matter who made the decision - what matters is who is *ultimately* in charge.  If it's a county library, they have to answer to the county board.
<Takyoji> and gah, I still have yet to develop a name for my freelance business as of yet..
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji Consulting!
<tonyyarusso> Oh, btw - now that the shutdown is over the state parks along the Sakatah trail are open again.
<Takyoji> My brother already gives me substantial crap as it is about my username. :P
<Takyoji> Figuree
<Takyoji> Figured*
 * tonyyarusso will also be down sort of that direction to ride the Root River / Harmony-Preston trail in a couple of weeks.
<tonyyarusso> Specifically, the evening of Aug 4th through the morning of Aug 8th (Thursday-Sunday)
<tonyyarusso> err, 7th
<rlaager> Takyoji: What did your county library do?
<tonyyarusso> rlaager: Runs Windows for no reason.
<Takyoji> They upgraded and/or added a few more computers, specifically JUST for viewing the online library catalog system
<rlaager> Yeah, if you're annoyed by that, you should start a consulting company.
<Takyoji> and got Windws 7 with all of them, with most likely the professional or ultimate license in order to lock down the user to only being able to use Firefox
<Takyoji> That's what I'm trying to do, I just haven't devised the name yet. :P
<rlaager> The library is really only concerned (well, or *should* be) about the final cost.
<rlaager> I don't know about libraries, but Windows licenses for schools are almost free.
<rlaager> But if you can save money by offering (on a consulting basis) supported Ubuntu LTS systems, that could be a win-win.
<Takyoji> I'm actually starting to lose faith in Canonical
<rlaager> I'm starting to lose faith in Ubuntu. As more init scripts get converted to upstart, I'm having more and more service management problems. Hiding the boot screen on *servers* and plymouth specifically have been major headaches.
<Takyoji> and I don't know how I'm going to deal with Unity if I were to actually deploy Ubuntu for the use of a web-browser-only environment.
<rlaager> oh, yeah, and that
<Takyoji> And of course Unity would be a complete joke to enterprises.
<rlaager> I have no idea how to use my computer when Unity comes up. If classic GNOME dies, I'm not sure what I'll do.
<Takyoji> Also, I've also been wondering of how we could potentially unify this LoCo team with the other LUGs in Minnesota
<Takyoji> We're all so segregated, and it would be nice if we actually all teamed up and did something for Software Freedom Day or similar.
<Takyoji> Classic GNOME dies in the next release of Ubuntu
<Takyoji> Thus I'm contemplating on either deferring people to using Linux Mint (which I'm starting to view as the best choice for home users), or otherwise the KDE Fedora
<Takyoji> if KDE ever becomes stable
<rlaager> I'm still a huge fan of Debian.
<Takyoji> But yes, I'd really like us to unify all the Linux-related groups, and certainly not under the Ubuntu LoCo name, as I also feel that would greatly push people away from joining in a unified effort
<Takyoji> and also, pretty much everyone I meet online now, outside of technology and Linux-related communities, they apparently have used Ubuntu before, but have fled to other distros because of Unity.
<Takyoji> Yet Canonical and the internal Unity evangelists are trying to enforce their little creation that not everyone likes
<Takyoji> Anyway, does anyone have any good ideas as of unifying the groups?
 * Takyoji also bugs tonyyarusso, if they happen to have input.
<tonyyarusso> You can't unify the groups; what you should be trying to do is *coordinate* them instead.
<Takyoji> Well, I'd like some way to at least unify communication
<Takyoji> Because it's all fragmented mailing lists and so on
<tonyyarusso> That would be nice, or at least for some communication.
<Takyoji> because if I were to try and start something, it would have to be sent and established through each LUG individually
<tonyyarusso> The sad thing though is I don't think any of the old groups are active anymore besides TCLUG.
<Takyoji> Well yea, I know there's TCLUG as being the most active
<Takyoji> I know there's NORLUG which isn't as active, but there still are people that are within the channel that I don't think are within others.
<tonyyarusso> The way this is SUPPOSED to work is that each distro has a statewide group and each city has a generic group.
<tonyyarusso> But the only other distro I've seen even try is Fedora, and their local group barely exists (there is one guy, but not much else), and none of the other LUGs do much.
<Takyoji> Also, what are your thoughts on Fedora (out of curiosity)? :P
<tonyyarusso> So we have this awkward Twin Cities only overlap of an Ubuntu LoCo and TCLUG, and none of our LoCo people outstate make fun stuff happen :P
<tonyyarusso> Fedora is a great distro crippled by an awful package management system :P
<Takyoji> what part of rpm is bad though? The complexity?
<tonyyarusso> I've just never found it to be reliable enough, nor as friendly and efficient as apt.
<Takyoji> I was recently babbling with someone else whom boasts rpm over apt, while I've of course taken the opposite stance
<tonyyarusso> Part of it isn't the tool's fault too.  Debian does a much better job of actually reviewing the packages in their repos and their dependencies and making sure stuff works together than Fedora/Red Hat does.
<Takyoji> rpm has a lot more details to it, however I have had troubles with adding a package to a CentOS server due to packages being removed (that weren't in conflict), thought it could have been due to Plesk (which wasn't my choice)
<Takyoji> and then I also have another person that boasts openSUSE for home users, including YaST in specific.
<Takyoji> ahh, the QA
<rlaager> RPM isn't very well maintained. Also, the tools for *creating* the packages are way better on the Debian side; really, they are non-existent on the RedHat side.
<Takyoji> such as which tools though?
<rlaager> Debian has the whole debhelper framework. There's also cdbs, though I don't use that, so I can't comment too intelligently. On the RPM side, everything is in a single flat text file.
<Takyoji> I've been curious of trying at packaging, but the material I've come across only explains how to do it with rather minimal tools, such as just something to build the basis of the package and not much else
<rlaager> Also, Debian has stuff like {bzr,cvs,git,svn,etc}-buildpackage
<Takyoji> ahh, for finding dependencies?
<tonyyarusso> and quilt and whatnot
<Takyoji> I was thinking of perhaps trying at packaging some of the Humble Indie Bundle games, since most are just archives..
<Takyoji> but yes, how would I be able to at least get TCLUG and the Ubuntu LoCo working together somewhat?
<Takyoji> Gah, why is LibreOffice in Ubuntu always so unstable?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-07-30
<djs> Does everyone here use Ubuntu?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2013-07-24
<CitizenUnderdog> Hello, all... first time IRC user here... Just checking to see if this place was still alive
<CitizenUnderdog> ?
