#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-04-25
<pleia2> webchat is the easiest, but it's a page talking about IRC itself, not the easiest way to connect it
<MarkDude> it works on all platforms with a browser
<pleia2> and empathy is built in to ubuntu
<seidos> but why would anyone read the irc page except to get connected to it?
<pleia2> typically when people are sent to that page it's to choice a client (usually because they've been using webchat)
<pleia2> s/choice/choose
<seidos> i don't disagree with that
<seidos> i'm just wondering if the easiest client should be more prominent
<seidos> it is possible to be overwhelmed by choices
<pleia2> the docs folks hang out in #ubuntu-doc
<seidos> i don't see how it's their problem, but i'll speak with them if you would like
<pleia2> 15:59:35 < pleia2> seidos: I'm sure you can discuss it with the docs team (it's a wiki, but I'm sure folks may disagree about whether it's more important than the other clients, particularly empathy)
<pleia2> it's bad form to introduce controversal changes
<pleia2> so you may want to ask the folks responsible for it first :)
<seidos> the changes don't necessarily have to be there.  i'll just add a link to webchat on the meeting page for CA
<pleia2> we link to ContactUs, which links to two types of webchats and tons of other stuff
<pleia2> is that not enough?
<seidos> i think it's too much
 * pleia2 sighs
<MarkDude> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2424094/Wiki.png
<seidos> perhaps i'm jumping the gun, but i think that's why MarkDude is bringing it up in the first place
<MarkDude> Just replacing ONE of the links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings
<seidos> just to see if there is a way to streamline the new user process
<seidos> if there isn't, well then, how are you?  :P
<MarkDude> the one that says IRC channel- actually points to meetings
<pleia2> ok, shall we link the IRC Channel one to ubuntu-california.org/chat ?
 * MarkDude thinks it would make sense to name it direct chat- or something similar
<pleia2> the channel is important for this team, so I really don't want to get rid of the link entirely
<MarkDude> Well yes
<pleia2> it's terribly annoying for me when teams link to a java/ajax chat instead of just telling me the channel name since I use a client
<MarkDude> just one of the 3 places i circled in yellow
<MarkDude> pleia2, I agree
<seidos> i think just making "Javascript webchat client" a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca would be good
<seidos> on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings
<nhaines> MarkDude: Do you think the Online Meetings section should be removed to reduce the number of links?
<nhaines> Or do you think it's not a good way to get involved and should be removed from that section?
<MarkDude> a sugar project has one of those - it always disconnects
<nhaines> Or do you think it's not a good way to contact us and should be removed from that section?
<pleia2> the News Archive link isn't great either, since we don't keep it updated
<pleia2> probably better to link to Team Reports
<MarkDude> I think it would be a great way to encourage folks to try irc
<pleia2> s/to link/to just link
<MarkDude> the dropbox photo circles it
<nhaines> Then you decline to answer.
<pleia2> MarkDude: can you add this to the meeting agenda? I need to get back to doing home stuff
<seidos> mu
<MarkDude> under the contact us would be  where to put direct link to webchat
<nhaines> seidos: not witty or helpful.
<atikus> eh
<MarkDude> nhaines, dont stress- I was not sure if I should put on agenda or not
<atikus> is the wiki all that official? like couldn't you just edit it then if people don't like it they could revert then if there's a disagreement people talk to eachother
<MarkDude> I will
<nhaines> MarkDude: so you don't want to reduce the number of links, you just want the links to direct to various places?
<seidos> nhaines: sure
<nhaines> atikus: the last time that happened, the team leadership was removed by the LoCo Council.
<MarkDude> atikus, revert wars on wikis can be rather a bit much
<atikus> team leadership?
<MarkDude> nhaines, had very legit questions, btw, and pleia2 thinks meeting would be the place to talk
<pleia2> MarkDude: you can talk now if you want, but more people will be at the meeting
<pleia2> anyway, laundry n stuff
 * MarkDude agrees
<MarkDude> and learned from how all that wiki stuff bot over hyped
<atikus> wait so is there officially recognized team leadership currently?
<MarkDude> not a huge deal, just anything to make stuff easier
<MarkDude> yes 3 folks atikus
<nhaines> atikus: yes, three people were appointed by the LoCo Council.
<atikus> after?
<nhaines> atikus: after they abrogated elections, I believe.
<atikus> ah
<pleia2> atikus: they approved the team decision to have 3 leaders and excluded some folks from leadership due to past problems, when elections came around only 3 nominees existed so they were confirmed
<atikus> out of curiosity, are there records of the election?
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Menu edited
<MarkDude> If more people were nominated - there would have been elections
<nhaines> atikus: no, because elections did not take place.
<pleia2> elections didn't take place because there were 3 candidates for 3 positions
<pleia2> atikus: yeah, in meeting logs and the mailing list
<pleia2> mostly at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2010-October/thread.html
<pleia2> anyway, the loco council won't be involved at all in our next election in October, so hopefully this is all water under the bridge :)
<atikus> ah, alright
<atikus> nice
<MarkDude> Not only that- folks lurned from what happened- things get sorted out fairly now- not that I am implying there were not before. The team has just grown :)
 * pleia2 nods
 * seidos plays a tune on a flute
 * MarkDude was wondering if we might have volunteers for doing the Facebook Cali team page- we get all sorts of views on there
<MarkDude> seidos, what tune?
<seidos> MarkDude: i'm not sure, i'm watching this movie "Darios de motocicleta", and there was a tune that played
<seidos> on the one hand metaphor...on the other hand literal
<MarkDude> Not sure what that means- but I am pretending it is the Spanish version of Mouse and the Motorcycle
<seidos> Mouse and the Motorcycle is probably more entertaining.  it means "motorcycle diaries", it's an argentinan film i heard about
<seidos> i also got "sobre todo mi madre", and "hable con ella"
<seidos> but there weren't any flute tunes in those
<seidos> that i can recall
<MarkDude> Can you do Star Wars with the flute?
<MarkDude> maybe Vaders theme?
<seidos> metaphorically yes, literally no
<MarkDude> Rebecca Black and that horrible Friday song?
<MarkDude> :)
<seidos> well, literally not well.  i would like a shakuhachi some day though
<seidos> not enough to actually think about it though
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings edited
<MarkDude> I was teaching someone about detachment the other day- I thought of you
<MarkDude> and how you might be able to explain it better :)
<Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11April24 edited
<dragon> Ohai Eureka!
<dragon> Long time no see buddy.
<dragon> I missed you, you know.
<pleia2> evening
<dragon> Hai pleia2!
<pleia2> how goes, dragon?
<dragon> Pretty well, and yourself?
<pleia2> busy! but good :)
<dragon> that's nice!
<pleia2> ok, meeting time!
<pleia2> who all is here for the meeting?
<dragon> moi!
<eps> âº
<aaditya> and me?
<akk> me
<pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11April24
<pleia2> is Ian Scott here? he added the first agenda item
<seidos> present
<pleia2> not sure what he had in mind for this item :) the big thing coming out with Natty is the new Unity interface
<pleia2> http://unity.ubuntu.com/
<pleia2> maybe we should come back to this one if he drops by
<pleia2> so... Release Parties!
<pleia2> we have a wiki page here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/NattyRelease
<pleia2> so far the only thing on it is a San Francisco release party over at Thirsty Bear again
<pleia2> (I'll be sending out an announcement to the list momentarily
<pleia2> )
<eps> Is there any chance we can get the upstairs, or tables in the back?
<dragon> Would be nice to have one in south bay.
<dragon> MarkDude: ping?
<pleia2> eps: unfortunately not, upstairs was something like $45/person :(
<pleia2> $22 in food, $14 in drinks I think it was
<pleia2> so $36
<pleia2> but still too much!
<pleia2> I'll make clear in the announcement that it's an informal gathering though, rather than some structured event, just look for people in Ubuntu tshirts :)
<eps> Can we at least get a table near a power outlet?
<pleia2> we can ask, but I wouldn't recommend bringing a laptop, it's more of an eat, drink, be merry thing like the Lucid one was
<pleia2> if we want to plan a structured event where we do demos we should schedule a separate event
<pleia2> (and by "we" I mean the team, "not me" :))
 * MarkDude here- with distractions sry
<seidos> if you want a challenge, try finding the person wearing an ubuntu pen
<pleia2> dragon: maybe a south bay geeknic release party? :)
<MarkDude> The wifi now WORKS well at Saxbys- we can do there-
<MarkDude> lets do that park near LosGatos again
<dragon> geeknic + release party would be nice.
<dragon> yes MarkDude!
<dragon> I'm in.
<MarkDude> on a day they have that free music
<MarkDude> +1
<seidos> that reminds me, i need to keep working on my juggling
<pleia2> ok cool, other thoughts on release things?
<grantbow> sorry I'm late.
<dragon> welcome grantbow!
 * grantbow reads
<eps> What Narwhal paraphernalia do we have?
<pleia2> I have a stuffed animal narwhal
<grantbow> eps: what do you want to bring? :-)
<eps> grantbow: it's not going to be ready in time
 * sn9 has been too out of the loop lately
<pleia2> well, release is this upcoming Thursday, but anyone can host installfests and things after that, so keep it in mind in the coming weeks even if you can't organize something by next weekend
<grantbow> good overview of the release (I give talks from this web page) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyNarwhal/TechnicalOverview
<sn9> oh wow, is it meeting night?
<grantbow> yup
<grantbow> Right, events can take place shortly after the release this Thursday.
<pleia2> ok, announcement for SF party sent out: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-April/001672.html
<grantbow> for some definition of shortly
<grantbow> pleia2: good work
<pleia2> grantbow: late :( but I've been overwhelmed today
<pleia2> ok, shall we move on to MarkDude's agenda item about the IRC link?
<grantbow> last minute agenda items - you are on MarkDude.
<pleia2> "Putting webchat link in Team header- to replace one of the the three links that points to IRC meeting page more info We have webchat links, they are located further with a few more clicks."
<pleia2> MarkDude: all yours!
<pleia2> my suggestion was to add a link to ubuntu-california.org/chat instead, since I hate when chat links go to web chats rather than just telling me what channel to join ;)
<MarkDude> Ok I think we should put a link to webchat
<seidos> grantbow: better late than never
<MarkDude> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkTerranova/wiki_header#preview
<MarkDude> pleia2, we could do that for one of the other 2 links to irc meeting page
<grantbow> seidos: sometimes, last minute agenda items have been discussed in CA team meetings before.
<eps> The "IRC Channel" link should change
<pleia2> eps: yeah, that's what we're discussing
<pleia2> MarkDude: yeah, but I wouldn't click on that if I was looking for the IRC channel, I'd click on the IRC Channel link and then get annoyed that it went to a web chat
<akk> Can we have both? Like pleia2 I'd hate to be taken to a webchat link without warning -- but we should have them for people who need them.
 * MarkDude outlineed his thoughts on the wiki page, its only a wiki thing - and not a super serious issue :)
<grantbow> this isn't a big change IMHO
<eps> "Online Meetings" under "Get Involved" doesn't make sense given that there's a full-fledged column right next to it.
<pleia2> yeah, not a big change
<iheartubuntu> so you dont want it going direct to a webchat?
<MarkDude> Well to tell a newbie click on the webchat named link- would work on any page
<seidos> pleia2: but you wouldn't need the link in the first place, would you?
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: I'd rather it go to a page that says "here's the IRC channel name, here's the webchat link"
<iheartubuntu> or just clarifying thel ink
<grantbow> where's the diff? :)
<MarkDude> since it is in the header
<pleia2> akk: the question is how we'd fit it in that tiny menu :)
<pleia2> seidos: I would if I was new to the team
<seidos> why not make the link read "IRC: #ubuntu-us-ca" and when clicked, opens webchat
<pleia2> seidos: that could work
<eps> I'm OK with a level of indirection. I'm not a fan of webchat, except as a last resort.
<pleia2> seidos: actually, new people don't know what IRC means
<pleia2> :\
<MarkDude> if you click on the webchat link that has the channel name already, we reduce a few hoops
<iheartubuntu> MarkDude are you saying from your page we have too many links to the webchat and to consolidate them?
<pleia2> "IRC Channel" as it is named now is probably a poor name
<MarkDude> webchat makes assumptive sense
<pleia2> "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" perhaps?
<sn9> "chatroom"
<MarkDude> sure :)
<iheartubuntu> many newbies dont even know what IRC stands for
<dragon> pleia2: +1, that's what I was thinking.
<MarkDude> chatroom sounds scary sn9
<seidos> then say Channel: #ubuntu-us-ca
<MarkDude> pleia2, +1
<pleia2> seidos: people don't know what a Channel is either :)
<eps> Newbies have enough trouble with the concept of online meetings.
<pleia2> it's a think you tune on your TV, right?
<MarkDude> webchat word help bridge it, imho
<iheartubuntu> + for pleia2
<seidos> pleia2: under contact us it says "IRC Channel"
<dragon> also, on the following page, the text "javascript webchat client" doesn't really make sense.
<pleia2> seidos: yeah, that's the wording we're trying to fix
<dragon> Not everyone knows the meaning and implications of "Javascript".
<sn9> whenever i explain what irc is i get "so, it's a chatroom?"
<seidos> pleia2: at one point people didn't know what "email" meant either
<pleia2> so, "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" with a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca
<MarkDude> dragon, minus that it causes their browser to crash :D
<MarkDude> that works for me
<dragon> lol.
<grantbow> is our wiki for us or the public or both?
<dragon> pleia2: even better to embed the chatroom in a wiki page, if possible.
<pleia2> grantbow: both
<pleia2> dragon: not possible
<MarkDude> And will make it less frustrating for when folks are at conferences that dont agree with some chat clients
<eps> Is there an https: page we can link to?
<dragon> ah okay. Link works then.
<MarkDude> dragon, Oregon did that with a hello icon- sounded good
<MarkDude> a few folks felt talked down to needing to click on a picture
<MarkDude> too easy can feel like a pat on the head :)
<grantbow> depends on your assumptions about the audience
<grantbow> vs. actuals
<pleia2> well, I think this is a pretty simple change and we link to our Meetings page enough, any major objections?
<iheartubuntu> I like pleia2 example of "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" with a link to http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ubuntu-us-ca "
<pleia2> thanks for bringing this up MarkDude, it's a good change :)
<nhaines> I think we need to make sure the wording is very distinct between an explanation page and a direct webclient.
<pleia2> we have a very small space to use
<MarkDude> np
<MarkDude> nhaines, is correct - it appears some fine tuning on wording could be used
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom for instance links directly without mentioning channel
<pleia2> and that's a pretty common example
<MarkDude> on the irc page- if another link for sumthin is needed- we have it :)
<pleia2> so even with the "Chat in #ubuntu-us-ca" I was trying to be a bit more explicit than some :)
<iheartubuntu> we could have the link go to a landing page describing what the chat is about, upcoming meetings, and then the link to the direct chat
<grantbow> nhaines: what do you think is needed?
<iheartubuntu> what about "live webchat"
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: I think that's what Mark is trying to avoid, lots of clicks to get to chat
<iheartubuntu> instead of irc channel
<nhaines> grantbow: a compelling reason to change the menus, to start.
<iheartubuntu> how about live webchat then
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: then where do we put #ubuntu-us-ca for experienced users? another line?
<iheartubuntu> if its LIVE people should get the intention
<MarkDude> iheartubuntu, we have a link to it on the irc page I believe
<pleia2> nhaines: currently "IRC Channel" links to our Meetings page, which is incorrect, I think that's a compelling reason
<iheartubuntu> its still not technically live yet until they key in a nickname and the captha
<MarkDude> we can have two paths or more to get there-
<iheartubuntu> "live webchat #ubuntu-us-ca"
<pleia2> we do much much more than meetings here (in fact, most of our everything is done here, we're a very chat-heavy team)
<nhaines> pleia2: it's a compelling reason to have a page describing the channel, perhaps.
<pleia2> yeah, which is why at the beginning of this I suggested just linking to ubuntu-california.org/chat
<nhaines> Especially if there are more than one.
<pleia2> yeah, we do have the -offtopic channel that isn't actually mentioned anywhere but the /topic here
<sn9> that should be on the wiki
<grantbow> sn9: where do you recommend it be put?
<iheartubuntu> at the top of this chat is pretty good already IMO
<iheartubuntu> when one enters this chat, everything very clear. webpage, next meeting, the chat is logged, and that we have an unlogged room too
<sn9> grantbow: anywhere is better than nowhere
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: are you saying that this information should only be available if someone is able to connect to IRC?
<pleia2> MarkDude: is your objection that it takes several clicks to get to webchat? would wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/IRC page that we link to in the menu with links to webchat and both channels be sufficient?
<eps> iheartubuntu: yes, very clear. Very clear text. Not good for using registered nicks.
<pleia2> that would also give us the opportunity to explain what it is
<iheartubuntu> it would make sense to also be on a landing page as i mentioned earlier, before someone enters a chat
<seidos> additional information could be included in the general "contact us" link
<MarkDude> Not really, IMHO
<MarkDude> But I dont feel the need to argue it
<MarkDude> one less click is good
<MarkDude> Just like folks not needing to create a LP acct 1st
<seidos> an additional click is fine if there utility to it
<seidos> *there's
<pleia2> ok, well I think we can agree that at least clarification is needed (not link to Meetings), just where to link and wording
<nhaines> MarkDude: no one needs to create an LP account before joining the chat.  That doesn't make any sense.
<iheartubuntu> im jsut trying to think of myself as a new user coming here... id appreciate a landing page describing the webchat and info about it before entering
<MarkDude> we have 3 links that go to the same place in the header- we would not lose anything at all
<eps> +2
<pleia2> MarkDude: mind if I brainstorm a little this week and you can let me know what you think?
<MarkDude> iheartubuntu, as I have done with other people - when sending them to a channel
<MarkDude> webchat direct links they can use on Windows , apple, or Linux are helpful
<seidos> perhaps creating a page on the ubuntucalifornia site with embedded chat that includes a description?
<MarkDude> Sure only 3 people at most
<pleia2> seidos: ubuntu-california.org/chat just lacks embedded
<pleia2> we could do that
<pleia2> I'll do that as a test this week and see what people think
<nhaines> Can we make sure we don't just dump people into a logged, permanently archived and searchable channel without their prior consent?
<seidos> i'm not sure the best way to embed webchat on ubuntu-california.org/chat
<seidos> does anyone?
 * MarkDude leaves- the L word was said
<iheartubuntu> nhaines - logging into webchat.freenode you need to type in any nick and also a phrase to enter
<pleia2> seidos: yes, it's easy
<iheartubuntu> webchat.freenode describes how to embed the chat into a page
<pleia2> ok, well Mark left and that was his agenda item so we should probably wrap up and revisit when we have some ideas together
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: is the embedded chat going to use webchat.freenode?
<iheartubuntu> i would think so
<pleia2> yep
<grantbow> MarkDude: for the log - uh, what? You put this on the agenda.
<iheartubuntu> its the easiest... but it has bugs when using chrome
<iheartubuntu> nothing major
<seidos> iheartubuntu: sweet
<pleia2> ok, so let's move on, that's the last agenda item, but anything else?
<pleia2> Announcements? Questions? Etc?
<nhaines> pleia2: I would like to request natty CDs this cycle.
<iheartubuntu> announcement... pasadena ubuntu hour was a big success. 8 peopel showed up. siedos was there also jbermudes
<pleia2> nhaines: sure thing! I'll email the list when I get them in and keep details about how many we have remaining on the wiki just like with Maverick
<pleia2> I sent the team request a few weeks back
<iheartubuntu> richard who spoke at ubucon was there as well
<grantbow> pleia2: +1
<nhaines> pleia2: excellent.  I'd like to get a set for OCLUG as well, but I'll do details later.  What's the best way to request them?
<pleia2> yep, april 7th https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2011-April/001658.html
<pleia2> nhaines: just email me how many you need and I'll get them shipped out
<pleia2> locals here tend to donate for shipping across the state, so I don't generally have to pay much out of pocket
<nhaines> pleia2: I'm happy to cover shipping.  We'll work that out in email too.  :)
<pleia2> nhaines: sounds good!
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: that rocks re: pasadena hour!
<iheartubuntu> for those wanting to do ubuntu hours, it really attracts people to have a UH on the same day as a LUG
<pleia2> our SF hour had 5 people, but we did bump into a project manager in the shop who said she uses ubuntu too :) and that's what it's all about, good times
<pleia2> yeah, ubuntu hour + debian dinner works out great for us every few months
<iheartubuntu> any advice would be appreciated on doing a regular quarterly shipment from ubuntu store. best timeframe to order based on store sales and ubuntu release dates
<nhaines> OCLUG is planning a weeknight meeting to test attendance and is planning it around Ubuntu Hour in Lake Forest so they don't overlap.  I thought that was really thoughtful.
<nhaines> (They're planning it to be on the alternate week to avoid overlaps.)
<pleia2> ah, that's nice of them
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: that's a good question, I'm not sure, I think their release of merchandise can be a bit random :\
<nhaines> Usually they dump merchandise just before the new cycle.  I was shocked to see natty shirts last week.  Usually it's really two weeks after launch before they get stuff in.
<iheartubuntu> i had 4 people order when i placed the order... might work better if i didnt order right before a major release as nhaines advised
<pleia2> ok, we can probably wrap things up now (and I need to go make dinner)
<pleia2> thanks everyone :)
 * iheartubuntu wonders what the L word is
<iheartubuntu> linux?
<sn9> no
<iheartubuntu> logged?
<grantbow> thanks all
<sn9> it's a word that's in the /topic
<grantbow> join #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic ;-)
<seidos> or #fictionalphilosophy!
<iheartubuntu> :D
<seidos> and #iheartubuntu ;)
<sn9> ##stupidcrap
<seidos> T_T
<grantbow> lol
<seidos> he's laughing at my pain
<grantbow> me? no. plenty else to laugh at here.
<grantbow> like the REAL "l" word - LoCo
<jledbetter> heh true
<sn9> seidos: ping
<seidos> sn9: pong
<seidos> my connection isn't slow, i was doing dishes
<sn9> seidos: you have /notice blocked, too?
<seidos> sn9: apparently, yes.  you might try /query
<philipballew> whats the best way to run ssh on a server with dynamic ip address?
<nhaines> philipballew: either get a router that supports DynDNS accounts, or run a cron script that SFTPs your server's IP address to a secret file on a web host.
<philipballew> alright, ill open up the router tonight and see what it can do! thanks
<iheartubuntu> I notice there is a Solano Stroll 2011 planned. Does the CA team plan to do that again this year? Look like it was PACKED last year. WOW!
<pleia2> yep, that's the plan
<MarkDude> Great event
<iheartubuntu> id love to be there! looks incredible.
<pleia2> hopefully I'll get to go this year, I don't remember where I was last year
<MarkDude> Sorry for leaving the meeting- I figured the last thing this team needs is a huge debate over a simple wiki edit
<iheartubuntu> there is an event in Claremont, CA down here... i think it was recent (or end of last year) that is supposedly the largest street fair event down here. im willing to look into it and get mroe info for an Ubuntu booth
<pleia2> oh, I was in Philly, tail end of labor day trip
<iheartubuntu> people are passionate about wiki :) haha
 * MarkDude does not plan on discussing logging 
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: nice!
<iheartubuntu> time is going by so quick these days i dont recall if it was last month or end of last year! yikes
<pleia2> there is a lug up here that goes to a farmers market
<pleia2> one in jersey has set up a booth at a flea market, and akgraner's loco went to a goat festival once
<MarkDude> iheartubuntu, that is why I tried to clarify it was a small blip in the whole order of things
 * MarkDude spent time helping organize a release party in Portland at a cool place called Backspace
<pleia2> non-geeky regular people there?
<pleia2> I think that's what's great about solano (and other events like it)
<pleia2> whole new audience!
<iheartubuntu> OK, i checked. Its usually in october in Claremont, CA... southern californias largest autumn street fair.
<iheartubuntu> although not as big as the solano one, it was pretty crowded last year
 * MarkDude has learned from Solano- that having folks in the booth is great
<MarkDude> but having a person standing in the crowd directing folks to the booth kept us very busy
 * MarkDude 's question to folks was- have you heard about Ubuntu?
<MarkDude> and since its basically Berkeley - I would follow up with do you want FREEDOM on your computer?
<iheartubuntu> pleia2 - excellent article about jledbetter :) now, if only i can learn java in 30 days as the book suggests
 * pleia2 breaks down "girls don't like computers" myth one interview at a time!
<MarkDude> +1
<iheartubuntu> gave a few ubuntu cds out yesterday at the bbq
<iheartubuntu> example... mac user who is on an extreme budget. cant afford more software (or afford anything really)
<iheartubuntu> he had never heard of ubunut
<iheartubuntu> ubuntu
<iheartubuntu> i guess i am an ubu-nut though
<MarkDude> mac can be a hassle depending in which bootloader it has
<iheartubuntu> he doesnt do video editing or anything
<iheartubuntu> so for him, ubuntu might actually be something for him to think about when his computer goes bye bye
<iheartubuntu> im interested in getting more women involved in ubuntu
<iheartubuntu> both involved and just generally using ubuntu
<MarkDude> iheartubuntu, +1
<MarkDude> it is very rewarding
<MarkDude> As long as you can make sure you are not pandering- it is cool to see folks learn new skills
<iheartubuntu> a prime example... my wife prefers XP. MS money is on it, as well as quick books pro. her comp at home is XP and she always complains about it. always. im always trying to fix something on it
<iheartubuntu> at work here, ive got ubuntu for her comp, with xp in virtualbox
<iheartubuntu> i really didnt have to teach her anything about ubuntu
<iheartubuntu> she picked it up on her own
<iheartubuntu> we got a new webcam so she can talk to family
<iheartubuntu> she didnt even ask me for help
<iheartubuntu> plugged it in and it worked
<iheartubuntu> no drivers to install from a cd or anything
<MarkDude> No doubt
<iheartubuntu> i asked her about it and she said "dont worry, i got it working"
 * MarkDude 's Grandma has been using Linux for almost 2 years
<iheartubuntu> wait what? she just plugged it in :)
<iheartubuntu> how is that getting it working!
<iheartubuntu> at a friends house a year ago, the gal was trying to show us some video on hulu or one of those sites... and it was an xp computer and the gal was having all sorts of probs going full screen so i gave her an ubuntu disc.
<iheartubuntu> she uses ubuntu now
<pleia2> this conversation would be nicer if you didn't seem so shocked :)
<pleia2> OMG a girl can use a computer! wow!
<iheartubuntu> well, some girls like everything done for them too
<iheartubuntu> like my wife :)
<iheartubuntu> and i think ubuntu just makes life simple for gals like that i think... ive been replaced
<pleia2> I haven't actually noticed a whole lot of difference between showing non-techie men and women about ubuntu
<iheartubuntu> well, thats true. im helping an older guy who screws pretty much everything up possible on his comp when it was  a windows computer
<pleia2> most of my work is just getting to that point, our culture is very man == techie; so finding a woman who is interested in taking control of her technical realm is half the battle, once they get to the installfest they're just like anyone else :)
<iheartubuntu> thats my point. getting them to an installfest or an ubuntu hour
<iheartubuntu> pleia2 is right about both M/F who are non techie. i mean people and companies pay bucks just to install MS office
<iheartubuntu> so all pasadena ubuntu hour guests were male.i noticed the SGVLUG had about 20 men and 3 women?
<pleia2> getting the first one is always the hardest
<iheartubuntu> the president of the CSULA accounting dept uses ubuntu (i was going to give him a disc :) ) and his wife uses it too
<pleia2> I learned recently that my ex-husband uses ubuntu these days, crazy, he was a pretty hard core gentoo guy
<pleia2> he's the one who introduced me to linux, but when he went gentoo in 2003 I had a hard time following, stuck with debian
<iheartubuntu> and most SGVLUG users who had their computers on were ubuntu
<iheartubuntu> several commented ubuntu is the entry level linux for beginners, yet everyones using it
<pleia2> well, it "just works"
 * MarkDude learned from Ubuntu Women that nuance is important iheartubuntu 
<iheartubuntu> what would you say about a person who is in the editing biz says he requires MS Word for all docs and wont switch to Ubuntu? I even recommended to do VB if MS Word was that important
 * MarkDude used to say that Linux is easy enough my Grandma can use it
<pleia2> MarkDude: then valorie smacked you upside the head? :)
<MarkDude> I now say Grandparents can use it- and then talk about my specific situation
<MarkDude> pleia2, lol
<MarkDude> Nope
<MarkDude> She is not part of the 10-20% militant part of the group
<pleia2> oh I see, she had someone do it for her
<pleia2> ;D
<MarkDude> the folks that say women should resist pink
<MarkDude> and only wear pantsuits
<MarkDude> No it was an open talk
<MarkDude> the feedback I was given was rather fiar
<MarkDude> fair
<pleia2> that's cool
 * MarkDude likes the small % that is militant- movements need folks like that
<MarkDude> iheartubuntu, what was brought to my attention is that some would focus on the gender thing- alothough that was NOT my intent
<iheartubuntu> i see
<iheartubuntu> im just speaking from personal experiences
<MarkDude> Using women as the lowest common denominator feeds a not equal view
<MarkDude> as was I
<MarkDude> I still can do that
<iheartubuntu> i know my wife likes things done for her such as, format the computer and put the OS on
<MarkDude> I just lead off with Grandparents- and clarify My Grandpa would use it if he were alive
<iheartubuntu> while this friend with the XP trying to do hulu and had probs... the last time we were at her house, she had ubuntu on and did it on her own.
 * MarkDude suggests that you have a deal with one mate being more technically inclined
 * MarkDude was restrted in computers- by a woman
<akk> MarkDude, it's pretty common for publishing people to use only MS stuff. Hard to fight it unless they're publishing opensource stuff.
<MarkDude> my ex-fiancee pushed me into it :)
 * akk is being a bit stubborn and irritating about tools on the next gimp book edition
<iheartubuntu> akk - my brother does editing & translation work for japanese firms
<MarkDude> The common thread being willing to change- if the starting work is done for them
<pleia2> I've even heard horror stories from folks writing o'reilly books (but apparently they've gotten better at accepting open source tools)
<iheartubuntu> he refuses to switch to anything but ms word
<akk> pleia2: O'Reilly reportedly will accept docbook or latex now. (Apress won't, but they claim they're willing to accept OO, which I take to mean ODF.)
<akk> I wanted to try latex.
<iheartubuntu> projectdp did you say a week or two ago that you make music
<projectdp> hello, no i don't thinks o
<iheartubuntu> it was someone else who popped in when you did then
<projectdp> i think you have someone else confused with me
<projectdp> ah
<iheartubuntu> dang. i need some music help
<projectdp> yeah i'd like to be making music but i have no idea how
<MarkDude> Start with audacity projectdp
<MarkDude> Hello - my name is Mark
<projectdp> hello mark
<projectdp> i've used audacity a bit
<projectdp> just for converting mp3's
<MarkDude> It can be used for podcasts
<MarkDude> as well as making some music
<MarkDude> #opensourcemusicians
<MarkDude> ^^^^ join that channel- there are some cool people there projectdp
<MarkDude> they also have a podcast about making music :)
<projectdp> thanks :)
<projectdp> hey how do you search with /list?
<projectdp> i tried it with a name after "/list music"
<projectdp> no good, whats the proper method?
 * MarkDude is not sure
<nhaines> akk: I don't expect Apress to accept open formats, although I sort of expect O'Reilly to.  ;)
<nhaines> Not sure I'd ever send in a manuscript in a word processing text format unless I wasn't doing the typesetting... but probably as an author I won't be.  :)
<MarkDude> projectdp, join the channel- I am sure they can help
<MarkDude> have you heard their podcast?
<MarkDude> #opensourcemusicians
<pleia2> projectdp: /msg alis help
<pleia2> alis is a service on freenode which searches registered channels
<pleia2> so like, /msg alis list *music*
<nhaines> Putting "music" in asterisks makes it bold and tells alis that you're really serious about music.
<pleia2> it's not in bold, irssi just does that :)
<nhaines> pleia2: it was fun to say.  :)
<projectdp> thanks pleia2  :)
<projectdp> hey seidos
<seidos> aloha projectdp
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-04-26
<projectdp> so quiet
 * pleia2 waves
 * seidos rides pleia2's wave
<seidos> anyone know the syntax for sending a /me in an irssi perl script?
<pleia2> action
<pleia2> so instead of /me you'd do "action #channel does cartwheels"
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/modular_r2d2.php has a bunch of irssi scripts I wrote in 2003 or something
<seidos> ah, action
<pleia2> scripts.irssi.org is also super useful for examples
<seidos> lemme try that
<seidos> yeah, already there
<pleia2> cool
<seidos> searching it though was taking a long time
 * pleia2 nods
<seidos> goooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal
<seidos> thanks
<pleia2> welcome :)
<projectdp> oh wow that's an awesome site hahah
<projectdp> hi akk
<akk> hi
<seidos> hmmm, that's kind of disturbing that i couldn't find documentation for the action syntax
<pleia2> not really, irssi is poorly documented
<seidos> so then it's less than "kind of" disturbing?
<seidos> like, not disturbing at all?
<seidos> i guess most people do the word of mouth thing
<pleia2> I don't know that I'd call lack of documentation for an open source project "disturbing" at all :) it's quite common
<seidos> hunger is quite common :/
<pleia2> I'd hardly equate human suffering with lack of documentation
<seidos> there are different levels of suffering, lack of documentation is one of them
<pleia2> doesn't hit my "disturbing" meter though, YMMV
<seidos> does it hit anything?
<pleia2> just my typical "ah open source and it's lack of documentation"
<akk> Hey, it's suffering -- just in a "first world problems" sense. :)
<seidos> actually, i thought this was a pretty good link:  http://www.irssi.org/documentation/perl
 * akk is busy writing up a blog post about how much I've suffered trying to write a web app for android
<akk> (poor me :)
<seidos> it was just missing something specific on "action"
<sn9> isn't the action syntax just "/me does this" ?
<seidos> sn9: apparently not
<seidos> i gave the old "/me does this" a try, it's in perl fyi
<seidos> using Irssi module
<seidos> pleia2: did you see "action" used in an existin script?  sample script?
<pleia2> probably in an existing script
<seidos> is that how you learned it?
<seidos> ah...hmmm
<seidos> oh yeah, i got wireless from terminal working, took "a few" tries
<seidos> the arch wiki didn't quite cut it
<seidos> but it did help
<sn9> /action does this
 * sn9 does this
<seidos> so /me is an alias i guess?
<sn9> should be
<seidos> that wasn't included in the Irssi module i guess
<seidos> well, i'll use action from now on, "me" wasn't a command that worked.  i'm sure i tried everything correctly
<seidos> that is interesting, i must've got stuck with the /me from my mirc days or something
<seidos> maybe everyone has been using /action except for me
<seidos> T_T
 * pleia2 uses /me
<seidos> me me me, like Agent Smith
<seidos> /me is shorter
<seidos> quicker, more efficient
<seidos> i'm considering downloading all the files on scripts.irssi.org, then using grep to find syntax i need
<akk> Not a bad idea, assuming it doesn't take forever to download them all.
<seidos> it shouldn't take more than 10 min i guess
<seidos> how fast is your connection akk ?
<seidos> but i'll let you know :P
<seidos> i'm not really in a hurry though
<seidos> just be nice to have it cached
<akk> seidos: Not super fast -- it's DSL, not cable.
<akk> And we're in a backwater on the edge of San Jose.
<seidos> ah
<seidos> wow, 824 files in 1m6s 239K/s
<seidos> there is a problem with internet infrastructure
<seidos> which is...well...kind of sad
<seidos> i wish i knew more about the technology
<seidos> blah blah blah
<projectdp> hm, i'm also in SJ
<seidos> i probably should be in san jose
<seidos> well, there's some foss activity here
<projectdp> seidos: what foss activity is there here?
<seidos> projectdp: you mean in so. cal?
<pleia2> projectdp: http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ include san jose and the surrounding area
<iheartubuntu> I thought this was interesting... an Open Source Ecology idea (TED Talk 2011) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIsHKrP-66s
<iheartubuntu> and do I see an Ubuntu laptop at 2 min 10 sec?
<seidos> i like what the chicago loco did
<seidos> made a loco out of a city
<seidos> i'm sure this has been beaten to death though
<seidos> a long time ago in a galaxy far far away
<projectdp> cool
<projectdp> thanks pleia2, i just emailed the svbug people :)
<pleia2> seidos: yeah, ubuntu chicago was established a long time ago when city locos were allowed to be approved
<pleia2> usually locos are *country* wide, the US was allowed to do by state
<pleia2> works out nicely because then the whole state can benefit from active cities
<seidos> mhm
<seidos> hopefully i can get more activity here in LA
<akk> It can get a little tricky in big states like CA, though, where people are so far apart.
<seidos> ah, sad, my wireless terminal stuff doesn't handle sleep so well
<pleia2> yeah, we all just do our own local things, even in "small" states it can be a 3 hour drive across the state :)
<seidos> the paradoxical sacred and profane
<seidos> it's great, and not so great
<projectdp> cool video iheartubuntu
<projectdp> akk: are you talking about emotionally apart?
<akk> projectdp: No, just physically.
<projectdp> really it seems like we have higher person-proximity density than most other places.
<akk> I grew up in SoCal, live in NorCal now, so I just laugh at the whole rivalry thing.
<akk> I like both parts.
<projectdp> me too i'm here now too :)
<akk> And they're not that different except when NorCalians start going all "ooh <shudder> WE DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE LA!"
<seidos> the only gripe i have with LA is the car culture
<akk> or THEY'RE STEALING OUR WATER, THOSE EVIL LA PEOPLE
<projectdp> heh
<akk> seidos: How is the bay area not a car culture, outside of downtown SF and Berkeley/Oakland?
<seidos> i wonder if folks in colorado ever think "those californians are stealing our water"
<projectdp> well it's kind of like a desert. and they try to keep it green
<akk> Good question, seidos.
<projectdp> akk: we're not as much of a car culture as LA come on..
<seidos> akk: BART i think is nicer than the light rail here
<akk> seidos: BART? I live in the south bay, what is this BART you speak of?
<projectdp> maybe in 10 yrs akk
<seidos> akk: you know, annoying little kid on the Simpsons
<akk> heh
<seidos> i suspect quantifying the difference probably isn't easy
<seidos> if we compare downtown LA to SF city
<seidos> hmmm, yeah, it's probably totally an illusion
<projectdp> not entirely
<akk> I'd say downtown SF is definitely less car oriented than downtown LA. But the outlying areas are pretty comparable, really.
<iheartubuntu> BART used to appear so modern to me as a child. now it has lost that viewpoint IMO. still looks nice tho
<projectdp> we have some semblance of a public transportation cutlure
<projectdp> culture*
 * iheartubuntu waits for the goldline metro to arrive near my house
<akk> I try to take transit every now and then, and I find it very difficult and expensive starting from the south bay.
<projectdp> it's one of the only systems in the state like it
<projectdp> auto-best
<projectdp> even though it sucks compared to all of europe
<akk> Or any east coast US city.
<akk> Or Portland or Seattle (not sure about Seattle, been a long time)
<iheartubuntu> i have always either flown in and taken public trans in SF or driven in, parked the car in a lot and used public trans while in SF
<iheartubuntu> but last time I was in SF for a long weekend I drove the car around a lot and saw much more than i thought was possible :)
<akk> Sure, within the city of SF it's fine. The bay area is not SF.
<projectdp> i've only done that a handful of times to LA
<seidos> that's pretty cool, i probably should do that next time, i didn't know where to park the car
<projectdp> and it's much more annoying
<seidos> i took Bart to Berkeley from SF
<seidos> wasn't too bad
<seidos> wasn't too great either, i think it took an hour
<projectdp> loud in that section huh
<akk> yeah, as I said earlier, SF, Berkeley and Oakland.
<akk> If you only ever go to the cores of the big cities you're fine.
<iheartubuntu> ive always stayed at like thepowellhotel.com and parked under union square (the hotel used to give free parking passes)
<akk> Or a few outlying places that happen to be on a BART line.
<seidos> that really isn't true here in LA, since it's so big
<seidos> suburban sprawl is like bacterial growth, and unfortunately, public transit doesn't automatically grow with it
<akk> LA is certainly bigger than the bay area, but the bay area is HUGE compared to SF+Berkeley+Oakland.
<seidos> well, we have the Inland Empire...
<iheartubuntu> its not much of an empire
<seidos> or maybe that's San Diego's
<seidos> don't let the emperor here you say it iheartubuntu
<iheartubuntu> he has no clothes
<seidos> *hear
<seidos> he's probably involved in some kind of sith group thing
<projectdp> :)
<projectdp> what are awesome window managers you guys use?
<nhaines> screen!
<nhaines> Also metacity.
<projectdp> smh
<projectdp> tmux is where it's at
<projectdp> i approve of metacity though
<nhaines> I remember twm fondly.  Nostalgically, anyway.
<projectdp> http://dominik.honnef.co/posts/2010/10/why_you_should_try_tmux_instead_of_screen/
<projectdp> what about applications?
<nhaines> I use byobu for my screen configuration and it is very handy.
<pleia2> xfwm (xfce's window manager) and fluxbox
<projectdp> interesting i'll look at it
<pleia2> fluxbox is kinda minimal, I use it on my lower end laptop and on my second desktop whose only job is to be my network firewall and have a web browser
<projectdp> does anyone use headless machines?
<pleia2> dozens of them
<projectdp> with remote desktop?
<projectdp> +gui?
<pleia2> no, just ssh
<projectdp> ah
<pleia2> ssh -X from time to time
<pleia2> (but mostly that's just desktop to desktop stuff, no GUI on servers)
<projectdp> cool
<projectdp> administrator?
<pleia2> my job is a linux sysadmin
<projectdp> sweet
<projectdp> do you have rhce?
<pleia2> no, I use debian and ubuntu
<projectdp> ah, but isn't that /the/ linux admin cert to have?
<pleia2> you don't have to have any (I don't, but I did help write the ubuntu certified professionals course)
<projectdp> no one has to have anything
<pleia2> it's certainly a popular one though
<projectdp> i thought it was a ticket to a fairly significant salary
<nhaines> I use headless machines as well.  Just SSH.
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> not at all :)
<pleia2> some companies look at certs, some are more focused on formal education, some on experience
<nhaines> Certifications are largely useless in a wide array of applications.
<pleia2> it helps to have some of each, but nothing is a "ticket" - certainly not a cert
<nhaines> That's not to say that they aren't worth taking, but they're not a golden ticket!
<pleia2> (I lack certs and education, but I make up for it in awesomeness)
<pleia2> :D
<projectdp> thats ok too
<nhaines> I've found that my experience running Ubuntu events and writing has made it really easy to interest new employers.
<pleia2> yeah
<projectdp> the only problem is that there isn't much of an excuse not to represent your skills
<pleia2> certifications and education are expensive and time consuming, and of negligable benefit if you have experience
<projectdp> why is it time consuming?
<pleia2> (there are some companies who won't hire you without them, but I don't want to work for that kind of place anyway)
<seidos> getting experience isn't always that easy, a lot of the time connections are necessary
<pleia2> you still have to study
<projectdp> so you gain benefit from the skill by studying?
<pleia2> you study for the test, if you have experience you are already competent in the real world
<projectdp> if you are in the domain for which you are studying you should also be competent in the material to some degree
<pleia2> but everyone is different, best thing to do is learn how you learn best and get the education, experience, certs for whatever area you're shooting for (an IT job at a traditional corporation may require certs, something at a silicon valley startup typically won't)
<pleia2> pratical application and test taking are very, very different beasts
<pleia2> if I forget the exact syntax for fstab when using UUIDs I can do a 3 second google search, can't do that when taking a test
<projectdp> many certs have practical elements
<projectdp> i mean i'm just seeing if there are any arguments that are decent against certs
<projectdp> maybe it is negligible standing next to a contact that can land you a job
<pleia2> it really depends on the person and the work you're looking for
<projectdp> or when you look at a couple hundred dollars and a few hundred hours of time
<projectdp> i think so too
<projectdp> so in what ways would you be jockying for a better position now?
<projectdp> i'm sure if you've been in the industry you would have a majority of your work represent you
<pleia2> personally my public open source work and sysadmin experience is plenty for the next few years
<pleia2> I get contacted by recruiters from impressive companies pretty often
<projectdp> plenty in terms of things to do?
<projectdp> i see
<projectdp> brb few more questions in a bit :)
<iheartubuntu> im doing the UCP just to familiarize myself better
<iheartubuntu> mostly terminal commands and such that i dont know or forget easily
<projectdp> ucp?
<iheartubuntu> Ubuntu Certified Professional
<iheartubuntu> its pretty much the same as LCP - linux cert pro
<projectdp> i see
<iheartubuntu> its beren renamed and updated since i started. Its not the Ubuntu Professional Training http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=533
<iheartubuntu> *been
<iheartubuntu> now
<iheartubuntu> not not
<iheartubuntu> gosh im lame lately
<iheartubuntu> there is a PDF course overview at the bottom of that link
<projectdp> cool
<iheartubuntu> "About the Course and Objectives - The Ubuntu Professional is a training course for system administrators who are
<iheartubuntu> required to deploy Ubuntu into the office environment."
<iheartubuntu> This hands-on course will provide participants with the skills they need to deploy and
<iheartubuntu> configure Ubuntu within the office. It introduces participants to the basic skills
<iheartubuntu> required of Ubuntu System Administrators.
<iheartubuntu> Scenario-based exercises guide
<iheartubuntu> participants on how to select appropriate solutions and tools for their organisation.
<iheartubuntu> After completing this course, participants will be able to:
<iheartubuntu> Install and configure Ubuntu systems
<iheartubuntu> Perform routine administration tasks; manage user accounts and file systems,
<iheartubuntu> and maintain system security
<iheartubuntu> Configure network connectivity and key network services
<iheartubuntu> Work productively at the Linux command line
 * pleia2 takes paste button away from iheartubuntu 
<iheartubuntu> done :L|)
<iheartubuntu> :)
<iheartubuntu> frankly, just using ubuntu for 5 or 6 years now i know most of that stuff
<iheartubuntu> even if i have to refresh my memory on commands
<iheartubuntu> under "Work productively at the Linux command line" it says not to chat in the California IRC channel or you'll get absolutely nothing done
<projectdp> haha
<projectdp> :o
<projectdp> byobu is kinda cool
<projectdp> pleia2: no more about certs but how do you get to do linux admin work?
<projectdp> i'm just curious because i'm just starting in corporate
<pleia2> projectdp: I applied at a small linux shop that was hiring folks for contract work, was eventually hired full time
<pleia2> I was involved with the LUG so the owner of the company already knew me
<projectdp> cool
<projectdp> bay area?
<pleia2> nah, philadelphia
<projectdp> interesting
<pleia2> (I was living there at the time)
<akk> projectdp: Sometimes you can get started by doing sysadmin on a volunteer basis for projects, or by lower-paid work adminning machines at a college or science lab.
<projectdp> yeah
<projectdp> i like server side stuff
<pleia2> yeah, my volunteer sysadmining was taken into consideration when I was hired, I put all volunteer work on my resume
<projectdp> do you have to deal with windows networks?
<akk> I get the impression there are a lot more jobs available if you know Windows than if you're Unix/Linux only.
<akk> Though the Unix/Linux only ones are maybe higher status/higher pay (and require more experience).
<pleia2> projectdp: depends on what you mean by "windows networks" - a lot of the networks our servers are on have windows systems too, usually an IT department that manages an exchange server or something
<pleia2> but we don't touch them, the most we do is help them with network issue debugging
 * pleia2 wouldn't know what to do with a Windows machine
<projectdp> heh
<projectdp> i guess i mean active directory microsoft networks
<pleia2> ah, no
<projectdp> do you deal with virtualization?
<pleia2> yeah, a lot of it
<projectdp> xen?
<pleia2> we've got a couple old xen systems around, but everything new is kvm
<projectdp> ah
<projectdp> hardly know anything about that
<pleia2> kvm is easy to experiment with even on your desktip if you have virtualized hardware
<pleia2> desktop
<projectdp> do you know much about performance given certain hardware on xen or kvm?
<pleia2> we've only used xen in paravirtualization mode with a hypervisor (hardware doesn't have virtualization, so it's all emulated), kvm is all hardware virtualization, so it's not comparing similar things
<pleia2> never done benchmarks though
<projectdp> hm
<projectdp> i was considering using xen in para with a hypervisor to run various os livecds on alien hard drives simultaneously
<projectdp> i was wondering if it would be very feasible or not very
<pleia2> with paravirt you need a xen kernel on the guest, so it's difficult
<projectdp> but hardware virtualization sounds nicer
<pleia2> with hardware virtualization the guest doesn't need to know it's a VM, so you can use regular kernels
<projectdp> alright well i haven't dealt much with this, before i started i wanted to get some opinions
<projectdp> people have been saying the hardware shouldn't be an issue
<projectdp> to scan several disks simultaneously with a couple os'
<pleia2> if you have hardware virt I'd strongly suggest kvm+libvirt
<pleia2> but an easy way to start out playing with virtualization is using something like virtualbox
<projectdp> i don't think that would have the performance would it?
<pleia2> no, it would be slow
<projectdp> i mean i really would like something that would be a light hypervisor deal that manages the guest os'
<pleia2> libvirt kinda fills that role
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM is quite good
<projectdp> oh great, now i'll be buying some hardware :)
<pleia2> heh, yeah, my desktop is an i7 with 8G/RAM
<pleia2> I do lots of test stuff on it with kvm virtualization
<projectdp> how well does it handle running a few os instances
<pleia2> much nicer than having my bedroom filled up with phyisical machines when I want to test a network infrastructure :)
<projectdp> ?
<pleia2> does fine
<projectdp> well like how many
<projectdp> and what sort of load
<pleia2> I've never really pushed it to the limit
<projectdp> what i'd be doing is like defragmenting and doing scans on a bunch of disks
<pleia2> I've never run windows vms
<projectdp> with just some light livecd os's
<pleia2> eep, conference call time
<projectdp> thanks pleia2
<projectdp> ttyl
<nhaines> projectdp: you're going to be defragmenting and scanning multiple disks from CD-based virtual machines on the same host?
<projectdp> well they will be basically livecd iso's
<projectdp> yes
<nhaines> Any reason not to use an installed OS to run the utilities on the drives?
<projectdp> yes
<projectdp> it takes up an entire computer to scan one disk
<projectdp> i have to do scanning serially
<projectdp> it sucks.
<projectdp> and if i do other things in the mean time
<projectdp> i don't see stupid messages like "click ok to copy this file to backup" or something
<projectdp> wasting like 10 mins to a few hours
<projectdp> if i leave it over night or lunch
<projectdp> and i'm pretty sure it's not cpu intensive activity
<projectdp> and even if it was i think todays computers would do ok.
<projectdp> and now that i look at it, kvm was already suggested to me casually heh
<nhaines> So you're going to take a I/O-intensive operation, add a hypervisor, load multiple virtual machines, and run everything across the same system bus in parallel, with the expectation that this will make things faster?
<projectdp> i have no idea, thats why i was asking about feasibility on hardware
<projectdp> given the virtualization constraint
<nhaines> Why not just run the utility in parallel on the host OS?
<projectdp> because it's not one utility
<nhaines> Why not run the suite of utilities in parallel on the host OS?
<projectdp> ok, how?
<nhaines> Generally, you invoke each program seperately, once for each disk.
<projectdp> well here's the issue
<projectdp> the software is generally a bundled antivirus suite
<projectdp> i have about 10-15 of these
<projectdp> most of them are iso's
<projectdp> now i could go about figuring how to strip them from their bundle, and figure out how to update them for each
<projectdp> but that would suck
<projectdp> i mean for some things yeah i could run multiple instances
<projectdp> backing the disks up
<projectdp> imaging and the sort
<nhaines> That sounds like it'd take a lot of scripting.  I'm not sure it'd be easy to do with multiple disks in parallel though.
<nhaines> It shouldn't be terribly hard, just annoying to get set up initially.
<projectdp> you mean about the iso utilities?
<nhaines> Yes, to set up a script to instantiate a virtual machine that boots each ISO in turn.
<projectdp> oh yeah thats not a problem
<nhaines> You can't access the same disk simultaneously with different VMs.  (You *can* but you shouldn't.)
<projectdp> no i'm not interested in that
<projectdp> one os per disk at a time
<nhaines> That's good to hear.  :)
<projectdp> what kind of system do you think it would take to handle something like that?
<projectdp> i was thinking maybe if i had a separate disk controller that it would offload a bunch of the io requests
<nhaines> It still all has to go over the system bus I believe.
<nhaines> I'd probably get a script going and benchmark it, then try it with two simultaneously.
<projectdp> i guess there's only one way to find out :)
<projectdp> i may just make the plunge anyway
<projectdp> i haven't had a server or a desktop of my own for quite a while
<projectdp> my last desktop was a p3 500mhz
<nhaines> They're slow but they'll run Ubuntu 5.04 without a fight.
<projectdp> hah hardly slow
<projectdp> i ran netbsd
<projectdp> it flew
<projectdp> i also had rambus memory
<projectdp> heh
<projectdp> rdram
<nhaines> I avoided rdram.  :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-04-27
<jdeslip> Google Docs now uses the Ubuntu font :)
<jdeslip> (or has the Ubuntu font as an option)
<akk> Cool! I'm not getting it in the normal list ... how do I see other fonts? (It only shows me about 5.)
<seidos> i haven't used google docs in awhile, i use gedit
<seidos> does fixedsys count as an ubuntu font?
<seidos> :|
<akk> I only use google docs for a wiki we use at work.
<pleia2> shows up for me in the list, there are about a dozen
<pleia2> I didn't do anything special to make them show up
<seidos> oooo FIOS
<akk> Maybe it acts differently for domain-specific pages vs. regular google docs.
<broder> no, i get it on a totally random doc
<broder> maybe it's browser-specific?
<pleia2> shows up in my @gmail and my hosted domain account, might take time to roll out to all their servers or something?
<pleia2> https://launchpad.net/bugs/771443 is the bug report about it, someone did some fast work :)
<akk> Maybe so. I'll try it later in the week.
<pleia2> (like narwhals on google maps!)
<akk> narwhals on google maps?
<jdeslip> Hmm, I thought this would be something Google would have to change...
<jdeslip> That bug report makes it sound like Ubuntu was able to change something
<pleia2> akk: for april fool's day if you put in canonical's london address in google maps you'd see a cartoo narwhal in the thames
<pleia2> jdeslip: yeah, it's a google thing, I think some folks at canonical are friendly with the UK googlers
<pleia2> http://design.canonical.com/2011/04/01-narwhal-at-lambeth-bridge/
<akk> Cute! Wow, talk about an easter egg not many people will see. :)
<projectdp> anyone know about that amazon ec2 linux instance you can get?
<erichammond> projectdp: Yes, Amazon provides their own Linux distro.
<grantbow> seems you can google for "amazon ec2 linux free" and read up on AWS Free Usage Tier
<grantbow> or go directly to aws.amazon.com/free
<grantbow> erichammond: what their distro derived from?
<grantbow> *is
<erichammond> grantbow: As I understand it, Amazon Linux is based on CentOS
<erichammond> At the beginning, Amazon's MapReduce instances were Debian, but I'm not sure if that's still true.
<erichammond> The EC2 host OS used to be RedHat in the very early days.  No idea if that's still true.  I imagine they would have moved to CentOS at some point for cost savings.
<grantbow> I thought I heard awhile back that a large % of cloud instances were Ubuntu based.
<grantbow> http://saviorodrigues.wordpress.com/2010/12/17/2010-the-year-of-ubuntus-rise/
<grantbow> ah, market use is high despite what they run on the backend at aws.amazon.com
<seidos> how many software engineers does it take to install a cloud OS?
<seidos> 1, they can afford the hardware
<projectdp> :)
<grantbow> cute
<projectdp> grantbow: yeah i've read about it a bit on the site, but i was looking for people who have used it
<pleia2> projectdp: might also want to check this out if you have 55 minutes to burn: https://10.cloud.ubuntu.com/
<projectdp> i'll consider it
<projectdp> hehe
<projectdp> oh wow :D
<grantbow> pleia2: that's a free one hour instance?
<pleia2> grantbow: yeah
<pleia2> I read about it here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10941
<grantbow> things like this back up the numbers cited in that blog post I just linked.
<seidos> anyone in the mood for investigating a line of perl?
<wiretapped> maybe :)
<seidos> i'm trying to nest a foreach in an if statement, i think that isn't going to work
<wiretapped> what is the if supposed to test?
<wiretapped> nesting anything in anything ought to be possible, i mean, it's perl
<wiretapped> not necessarily a good idea, though
<seidos> here's the code
<seidos> http://scsys.co.uk:8002/99719
<seidos> line 210
<wiretapped> seidos: why do you need a foreach there? can't you just join your array?
<wiretapped> (forgive me if i misunderstand what you're trying to do, my perl is extremely rusty)
<seidos> wiretapped: unfortunately no, i need the specific array element given syntactically from the chat room
<seidos> wiretapped: there are 408 i think, i am trying to avoid coding it as 400+ if's or a switch
<seidos> someone mentioned List:: i will have to investigate this
<seidos> i'm going to grep my perl code see if i can find some List:: samples
<Mike_H_> Hello hello! I have a question
<Mike_H_> are there any LUGs in the vicinity of Irvine?
<Mike_H_> Anyone around that would know?
<seidos> i've heard someone mention "oc lug" Mike_H_
<seidos> hey philipballew watt up?
<Mike_H_> seidos: where do they meet out of, do you know?
<Mike_H_> ah, found it
<Mike_H_> CSU Fullerton apparently
<seidos> ah, didn't know that
<Mike_H_> http://www.oclug.org/
<seidos> oc is kind of far from me
<Mike_H_> I'm not from California, just trying to find a California person who is interested
<Mike_H_> a group they can go to
<philipballew> theres one in san diego!
<Mike_H_> I'm not very Ubuntu/Linux oriented and I don't even think there is a group for those users where I'm from, it's a tad hick ;)
<philipballew> where are you from?
<philipballew> sedios whats up!
<Mike_H_> Pensacola, FL
<Mike_H_> and I just did a search, and there actually is one!
<seidos> i met some of the guys here awhile ago at Chapman U
<Mike_H_> http://www.pcolalug.org/
<Mike_H_> heh
<seidos> i don't know if they meet out there anymore though
<Mike_H_> East Wright Street
<Mike_H_> that's near our big gay bar
<Mike_H_> lol.
<seidos> O_O
<sn9> philipballew: you mentioned something about Sacto?
<seidos> sn9: i think he went afk
<sn9> seems so
<philipballew> sn9 what about sacto
<sn9> i'm living there atm
<philipballew> i will be living there in about 3 weeks for all summer.
<sn9> what part?
<philipballew> auburn
<sn9> ah
<philipballew> what about you?
<sn9> natomas
<philipballew> nice area. have spent lots of time there
<sn9> nice? lol
<philipballew> i think so. is arco gonna be gone there though i hear?
<sn9> i heard something about the naming rights expiring, but no details
<seidos> i just learned i met sn9 at SCaLE 2 years in a row
<seidos> like 2 days ago ^_^
<philipballew> besketball is loosing in populartiy
<sn9> well, i was at 6x, 7x, 8x, and 9x
<philipballew> but tell that to the mayor
<seidos> i was at 8x and 9x
<philipballew> i was at 9
<philipballew> x
<seidos> ah well i gotta' get ready for bed
<seidos> good night all
<seidos> dang, i think i just broke gedit pasting ~380 lines
<seidos> now when i open the file gedit spikes to 100% cpu
<seidos> i guess i'm going back to vim
<seidos> ah, i see why
<MarkDude> Embedded Systems Conference Silicon Valley- registration closes April 28th   http://esc.eetimes.com/siliconvalley/
<MarkDude> WOZ will be there on Tuesday http://esc.eetimes.com/siliconvalley/siliconvalley/keynotes
<MarkDude> EXPO, keynotes, and teardowns are FREE
<akk> Cool, thanks.
 * MarkDude plans on seeing the Woz- and getting the SWAG bag - http://esc.eetimes.com/siliconvalley/technology_tote
<MarkDude> 40 ft T-Rex also
<seidos> ^_^
<MarkDude> hey seidos
<seidos> hey MarkDude
<MarkDude> Dinosaurs and a famous nerd - Im there
<seidos> i need to call my dad about visiting SF again
<akk> That looks cool, MarkDude -- thanks for the tip :)
<seidos> it's either drive up there, or get stuff shipped to me
<MarkDude> Well Chris showed me the link- I had to change some plans
<seidos> though, to be honest i'm not sure how much use i'll get out of my suit and my tools, but i guess it's good to have them just in case
<seidos> today is a Crashspace event at the Boys and Girls club in Long Beach at 6pm
<seidos> i'm going to bring an old dvd player, and see if the kids want to try to imagine and draw what's inside, then open it up so they can see
<akk> MarkDude: Yeah, I want to see the dinosaur.
<MarkDude> akk the tie-in they have with the dino makes sense
<MarkDude> seidos, I have done the same with my nephew
<akk> What's the tie-in? Aside from "dinosaurs are cool and everybody wants to see it" which admittedly is enough for me. :)
<seidos> MarkDude: i haven't.  my nephews think i'm a loon.  surprise surprise.
<seidos> they would rather play video games than talk to me T_T
<MarkDude> We took a battery and some switches and made the tray  move
<MarkDude> well my nephew KNOWS I am loonie- but he still like making stuff that moves and makes noises
<seidos> yeah, they don't seem to be into that
<MarkDude> these kids nowadays with their music, clothes, etc
<MarkDude> In my day....
<seidos> my other nephew also had a lot of resistance to stuff i tried to show him.  but i never had an old dvd player then.
<MarkDude> Tape players and VCRs also have many moving gears and belts
<seidos> he was more kinesthetically oriented.  he has a learning disability.  i got him into skateboard a little, but he never wanted to practice by himself
<seidos> i dunno, skateboarding probably wasn't his thing, which i don't blame him for
<akk> I haven't had much luck getting kids to "imagine what's inside" even with software, e.g. "What are some of the things this program would need to do?" before showing them how it works.
<seidos> it's not really mine either
<seidos> it's just an excuse to draw and have fun
<seidos> *maybe* get them curious enough about it to investigate for themselves
<seidos> and, i have no other ideas :)
<seidos> i got lucky with the dvd player, somebody left it outside
<akk> I was just at a meeting last night planning this year's GetSET (tech camp for girls) and advocating for a PC dissection workshop.
<akk> Get them to take computers apart and see there's nothing magic inside, and all they need is a screwdriver.
<seidos> i think hardware is more fun in the beginning, less reading, more hands on
<akk> A screwdriver and (more important) not being afraid of it.
<sn9> i was taking stereos apart that way at the age of 3 despite people trying to get me to stop, and it never occurred to me not to
<akk> They have a "build a radio" workshop already, which I guess works pretty well
<seidos> i think i was still pooping my diapers at 3
<akk> but when I see that on the list, I always wonder how many high school girls actually care about radios
<seidos> i dunno, i don't really remember O_O
<sn9> seidos: i was also
<akk> and if something with blinking LEDs might be more fun for them.
<seidos> haha, that is an awesome image sn9
<sn9> hey, you brought it up
 * seidos mumbles lousy miniature humans and their cuteness
<seidos> i'm not judging, it could be an awesome cartoon
 * seidos laughs
<seidos> it's like "Fantastic Max"
<seidos> "Fantastic sn9"
<sn9> not exactly "Dexter's Lab"
<seidos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZJfknWVIgY
<seidos> wow, this was cooler when i was ~10
<MarkDude> akk - have you read Cathy's - the unscary screwdriver?
<seidos> the LED comment reminded me of this "Dominoux" thing i heard about
<seidos> i've never been that into LEDs, except the LED flashlight i had.
<seidos> i used to work with an EE guy that loved them though
<akk> MarkDude: I have -- awesome article, it's always in the back of my mind thinking of these girls.
<MarkDude> Me too
<akk> Every girl should be lucky enough to have a mom like Cathy.
 * MarkDude agrees
<sn9> not enough luck to go around, alas
<MarkDude> My niece is still wearing diapers- I plan to get her involved soon- as does her brother- he is 5
<akk> One of the things I was telling them last night was how "Unlocking the Clubhouse" found so many girls who said they'd been admonished for trying to take apart the family computer
<akk> ... when their brothers were encouraged to.
<MarkDude> All of that stuff still seems weird to me- when I went to *Im ok - your ok * preschool- we were told girls can do stuff like this - just as well as boys
 * MarkDude grew up very naive
 * MarkDude wants to take the process FreeGeek uses for teaching computers- nd make a lesson or two- under Creative Commons
<akk> I grew up naive too, because my parents told me that (girls can do anything boys can) and so if anybody else told me different I just didn't pay attention.
<akk> Hmm, is there a site that collects lessons like that? How to teach people to take computers apart, to write a python program, to take a tape player apart etc.
<akk> I guess there are probably too many such lessons and the list would be too long.
<pleia2> there's http://p2pu.org/
<akk> oh, yeah, heard about that a while back but it didn't have much. Now it's looking more promising
<pleia2> jledbetter has been doing some stuff there
<pleia2> (that's how I learned about it)
<akk> though not really what Mark and I were talking about, guidelines for presenting an in-person class to kids or non-techie adults
<pleia2> yeah
<akk> it looks like it's more for semi-geeks to learn new software tech online
<akk> (which is a good goal too)
<pleia2> or Potable Water Treatment!
<pleia2> DarkwingDuck and I are relaunching ubuntu-learning, which we'll be crafting some ubuntu courses for
<pleia2> (one of which I hope to present at one of MarkDude's things someday)
<akk> pleia2: GetSET has one workshop that includes water filtration (I forget what the rest of the session is, either solar oven or wave physics)
 * akk would love to hear pleia2's presentation on water treatment
<pleia2> haha, nah, that's just one of the non-programming p2pu.org classes :)
<seidos> sn9: luck is so random, it's probably best to depend on right action anyway
<seidos> "random"
<seidos> i need to go outside
<MarkDude> pleia2, apparently the internets are now reliable at Saxbys- it has been a real headache to tell folks to use City Halls wifi
<pleia2> MarkDude: oh, good!
<MarkDude> The WC library is super shiny new- and has state of the art accommodations.
 * MarkDude is sorting out what days to do a release prty/geeknic
<pleia2> I'm slightly concerned about Unity WRT writing Ubuntu materials
<pleia2> I mostly grok gnome even though I don't use it, Unity is lost on me
<MarkDude> Unity will rock for next release, IMHO
<MarkDude> especially with a touchscreen- that is where the magic comes in
<pleia2> if only you could use an onscreen keyboard to search the applications
<pleia2> Mark says "11.04 was designed for desktops, not tablets"
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/739812 makes me sad sad pleia2
<seidos> i use docky, i am hesitant to use unity
<seidos> i really thought it would have been easier to get used to the interface, but it really wasn't
<seidos> i also noticed that i would prefer to just use a terminal to the synapse like omni search bar
<akk> pleia2: I'm finding that even on android there are a lot of problems with using the soft keyboard. Soft keyboards don't get no respect!
<pleia2> I sometimes had trouble with the onscreen keyboard on my g1, but my nexus one does fine (all it has is onscreen keyboard, sensitivity is better)
<pleia2> I still prefer to just tether to my netbook if I have to type much though :) I hate onscreen keyboards
<akk> The problem with it comes with javascript -- you can't implement things like autocomplete because onkey events don't fire.
<pleia2> ah, yeah
<seidos> pleia2: interesting link
<akk> And you can't do anything with timeouts, because timeouts don't fire if the onscreen keyboard is visible
<seidos> oh yeah, i wanted to assign myself a bug in launchpad, but apparently you have to be a member of a group to do that
<akk> (they just batch up and then all fire at once when you dismiss the keyboard, whose great idea was that?)
<seidos> are there even any developers using ubuntu on tablets?
<seidos> i wonder what tablet-pc cm-t is using
<jdeslip> pleia2: Even if the on-screen keyboard issue is solved, Ubuntu on tablets is going to be a rough experience at best.
<pleia2> jdeslip: yeah, but the on-screen issue is a bit of a deal killer
<jdeslip> For it to really compete with the Android/iOS experience they pretty much need to write things from scratch
<jdeslip> Like the close minimize maximize buttons on windows for example
<MarkDude> The keyboard thing has had some hassles in a few areas for Unity
<jdeslip> or even the idea of windows and the desktop don't make much sense on tablet.
<jdeslip> much better if windows are just always full screen
<jdeslip> And basically no piece of software for Ubuntu is optimized in any way for touch :/
<akk> Depends on the tablet. Fullscreen doesn't make so much sense on a 10" tablet, but certainly does on a 5".
<seidos> apparently someone is using something called cellwriter jdeslip
<seidos> does anyone here even have a tablet?  i remember drew got an older toshiba that seemed quite nice
<jdeslip> Don't get me wrong, I think you can put Ubuntu on a tablet and people will buy it / use it.  But, you gotta "really" love Ubuntu to justify using it compared to Android/iOS.  And the differential between those and Ubuntu is growing, not shrinking with time :/
<akk> I have a 5" android tablet, but that's not the sort of hardware anyone is targeting right now.
<jdeslip> seidos: I have a 10" in Android tablet.  And used to have a thinkpad "tablet" with Ubuntu back in the day.
<akk> Agree with jdeslip. Ubuntu on tablets might compete with things like meego, where there aren't many apps yet.
<jdeslip> There was one pdf highlighting/annotating app that was good for Ubuntu back then.
<seidos> it could compete, but hardware vendors would have to get behind it
<seidos> it's a hardware problem :)
<jdeslip> No, it is a software problem.
<seidos> i was being dopey, it's both
<jdeslip> You can put Ubuntu on tablets now... The experience sucks
<akk> app selection is definitely part of the problem, even if hardware drivers work flawlessly
<seidos> what i'm saying is if there is no specific tablet targeted for ubuntu, it is pretty much pointless working on the code
<akk> Personally I'd prefer something as flexible as ubuntu, but that's only because I'm a dev and can write my own apps if I need to. :)
<akk> and don't care about commercial apps and DRM content and such
<jdeslip> akk: Ya, I think a Meego like effort would really be necessary... But, I don't see Ubuntu doing that.  And Meego itself is basically dead.  But, you basically need to completely redo the entire interface ontop of X.
<seidos> the only reason i'd get a tablet is if i could use it to draw and take notes...otherwise, notebook is a better tool
<akk> jdeslip: There hasn't been anywhere near enough effort put into meego, and probably never will be. Ubuntu could equal that pretty easily with the momentum and devs it already has.
<akk> But that wouldn't get it anywhere near android/ios.
<akk> I got my tablet for 1. feed reading 2. ebook reading 3. mapping (but I still haven't found an offline mapping app that works)
<akk> It's definitely not a replacement for a computer with a keyboard.
<seidos> yeah, i can see how leisurely reading might work
<seidos> i mean, i can basically do all that with a notebook, except i can't recline
<seidos> i'm sure it's only a matter of time though before a drawing killerapp comes out for tablets
<akk> A notebook is much much (much) bigger to carry around, takes up a lot of desk space and can't be held that easily in a lot of positions.
<jdeslip> Eee pad transformer might be a good replacement: http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/asus-eee-pad-transformer-goes-on-sale-in-us-immediately-sells-o/
<seidos> i have a 13"
<seidos> i'm not sure i would even call a 17" a "notebook" :|
<akk> I have an 11". I carry it if I know for sure I'm going somewhere where I'm going to need a computer.
<akk> I don't carry it casually, when I'm going to the supermarket or whatever.
<seidos> i've never needed a computer @ the supermarket
<seidos> i'm very "low tech"
<akk> It's great to have an e-reader when you're standing in a long line.
<seidos> the lines aren't that long here
<akk> Or if you have to wait for something (a bus, someone who's gone to check on something and will be back in a few minutes)
<seidos> *and* i frequently don't go shopping alone
<akk> You never ever have to stand in a long line?
<akk> Wow, I want that life.
<seidos> i never said i have never stood in a long line
<seidos> the longest lines are @ Disneyland
<akk> Even going to Ubuntu Hours, I have to wait after ordering a coffee before it's ready.
<akk> And sometimes in line to order it.
<seidos> i bring a can of coke to ubuntu hours
<seidos> i like cola more than coffee :|
<akk> We meet in a coffeehouse -- we're using their space and their network, so it's only polite to order something.
<akk> (obviously if you don't like anything they sell, that's different)
<seidos> i bought a green tea @ a starbucks the other day, but there really wasn't a line
<akk> Anyway, if you never have to wait for anything, ignore what I said. I find I do have to wait, and it's nice to have something to read during that time.
<seidos> i even had time to talk to the guy at the counter a little
<seidos> well, i do wait for things sometimes, it just usually isn't long enough to warrant whipping out a device
<seidos> but maybe if i had a device i would
<jdeslip> pleia2: How is Chrome-OS coming along these days on the CR-48?  It must be about ready to launch for real right?
<sn9> cr-48?
<pleia2> jdeslip: good good, lots of updates lately
 * jdeslip wants to get my dad some sort of super-simple Chrome-OS netbook
<jdeslip> pleia2: anything notable?
<pleia2> jdeslip: not that I can tell, but I havne't looked very hard :)
<MarkDude> "Ask the Ubuntu Community Manager" LIVE in a few minutes http://www.ustream.tv/channel/at-home-with-jono-bacon
<seidos> jdeslip: there isn't something from partimus or system76 that your dad would like?
<seidos> how about a nettop
<seidos> *charlie chaplin eye brow raise*
<sn9> i think software is what's in question here
<sn9> hardware tends to be relatively generic in comparison
<seidos> yeah, there probably isn't anything that comes with a remote control
<seidos> my dad could use one of those, he can't seemlessly watch internet content on his lcd television
<seidos> which is just a shame
<seidos> i got it working for him, but it really isn't easy enough for him to care
<seidos> the worse part about it is the t.v. he has is an h.p., unfortunately it has proprietary software on it, and no documentation on how to get non-proprietary software installed on it
<sn9> software installation on a tv? wha?
<seidos> not so standard huh?
<seidos> the line between t.v. and computer with minotaur is getting fuzzier and fuzzier
<crashsystems> I've always wanted a minotaur with my computer
<seidos> hehe
<seidos> i think i always wanted a Wizard
<crashsystems> :D
<jdeslip> seidos: I think you mean ZaReason.  He is currently using an Ubuntu machine.  But, all he does is log-in, load chrome for his email and turn it off.  All the other possibilities confuse him ;)
<jdeslip> This is why Chrome-OS would be great for him :)
<smileysadman> jdeslip: T_T ^_^
<pleia2> btw, since someone asked in my blog, no the Dining out for Life event at thirsty bear tomorrow shouldn't impact us, we're hanging out in the open seating area near the bar, that's all in the proper sit down part
 * pleia2 replied in blog too
<DarkwingDuck> pleia2: ping
<pleia2> DarkwingDuck: pong
<DarkwingDuck> Yay!
<DarkwingDuck> About the Ubuntu training..
<DarkwingDuck> Now that the release cycle is done... and before I get too involved into +1
<DarkwingDuck> This would be a fun time to start working on it.
<pleia2> woo
<DarkwingDuck> :D
<pleia2> want to have a meeting some evening this week?
<pleia2> tonight is free for me
<DarkwingDuck> Sure! AFAIK it's free here.
<pleia2> ok, I'm free from 5PM on
<pleia2> maybe 5:30, I need to take a quick break from my desk :)
<DarkwingDuck> Okay
<sn9> the rest of the time, proprietary
<DarkwingDuck> You still have my mobile #?
<pleia2> who knows, PM it to me
<seidos> Keane
<seidos> keen
<MarkDude> http://xobnigadgethack.eventbrite.com/ Pre-Google I/O Mini Gadget Hack **Featuring Hack Judges Arrington, Smarr and Lee** May 9- SF
<akk> You're finding all the cool events, MarkDude .. thx for the alerts!
<MarkDude> :)
<MarkDude> Instead of bitcoins----- http://weusecarrots.com/
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-04-28
<erichammond> Natty increased my usable vertical space by moving the application menus to the top bar.
<erichammond> Then I gained even more when I realized I have no need for window decorations.  It looks odd at first,but I'm loving it now.
<erichammond> window decorations = that window manager border around every window that you use to drag, resize, close, maximize, minimize.
<erichammond> I already use keystrokes for all of these functions, so the only good it was doing was giving me a title.  So far, I have been able to live without that.
<akk> So, I have no idea if this is true, but there's a rumor (posted to BALUG) that Intel is giving out EXOPC tablets to everyone who attends their meego developer camp tomorrow at Moscone.
<akk> http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/events
<akk> (if anybody finds confirmation of this I'd love to know)
<MarkDude> That would be cool
<pleia2> I heard that rumor too (not from balug)
<pleia2> and Moscone is right next to Thirsty Bear where we are having our release party tomorrow evening :)
<akk> For me it means missing a half day of work and being an hour or two late to dinner, so I'd love to see confirmation somewhere before committing.
<akk> (A meego dev session is of no use to me if I don't have any meego hardware, anyway)
<nhaines> Now I just need CD artwork for natty.
 * nhaines glares at the Internet.
<nhaines> And now that I have the CD and sleeve artwork for natty, of course it's unsuitable for LightScribe discs.  :P
<broder> they posted the artwork? where?
<nhaines> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing/#CD%20Distribution%20Materials
<nhaines> Ooh, the server CD image is pretty.  :)
<nhaines> Didn't take too long to convert the server image to an inverted one.  :)
<nhaines> Okay, the official artwork actually came out pretty beautiful.
<crashsystems> Is it out yet? I hear its the 28th in Asia right now!
<crashsystems> </sarcasm>
<philipballew> wouldnt it get relaised in british time?
<philipballew> maybe im wrong
<sn9> there's an faq about that somewhere
<philipballew> i doubt its ca time though
<MarkDude> jo no, answered that in his Q&A today- one person decides when it goes live- I forget their name- I was not fully listening at that point
<MarkDude> It always varies a bit
<MarkDude> A friend said about the release- Natty will be released at some point while it is 28 April in at least one timezone on the planet Terra in the system Sol.
<jdeslip> Happy release day
<pleia2> happy release day :)
<akk> Here, have some balloons! ~o ~O ~o
<projectdp> those don't look like balloons :(
<iheartubuntu> thanks pleia2!
<jamalta> Happy release day! :)
<jdeslip> Seem's like Natty is meeting near universal praise for tech people who don't actually use Linux, and near Universal condemnation from current Linux/Ubuntu users ;)
<akk> heh
<akk> Not surprising from reading the usability test thread, where they only tested things on windows and mac users.
<jdeslip> Ya
<akk> I'm increasingly thinking ubuntu wants to be the "starter linux distro" -- get people switched over, then when they learn more they can migrate off to other distros.
<akk> They don't seem too concerned about retention of existing users.
<jdeslip> I gotta say, I see Natty as pretty significant downgrade in my computing experience.  But, I'm going to stick it out (on my laptop at least) in hopes things improve dramatically over the next cycle.
<pleia2> to be fair, gnome3 is a major shift too, so if it wasn't unity this release it would be the major UI change of gnome3 next release
<jdeslip> pleia2: agreed
<pleia2> they actually are pretty similar
<jdeslip> My desktop on all our work cmoputers are sticking with 10.10 for the forseable future
<MarkDude> pleia2, jdeslip  - I am planning for the Local Team table for OSCON
<pleia2> MarkDude: cool, working with the OR folks?
<MarkDude> Oregon looks like it will have enough folks to have its own table
<jamalta> Oh weird, since when does .ssh/known_hosts not keep the actual hostname?
<jdeslip> MarkDude: sounds good
<MarkDude> They are having a release party Sat
 * MarkDude talked to paultag yesterday
 * pleia2 nods
 * MarkDude think that CA and WA could do a table again
<pleia2> well, we don't want to be overbearing for the team which is there :)
<pleia2> we have plenty of our own events, let them have theirs
<MarkDude> and I can start it off by contacting May from Oreilly and CC you folks and Linda from WA
<MarkDude> They offered 2 tables last year
<MarkDude> There will be all sorts of local folks there
<pleia2> maybe you should just volunteer to participate in their table?
<MarkDude> last year - the request for the CDs was too late
 * MarkDude is doing it earlier this time
<pleia2> yeah, you need to do it at least 6 weeks prior to (I think their request was about 4 weeks last time?)
<MarkDude> Well technically I am still lead for Oregon
<pleia2> yikes
<pleia2> should sort that out :)
<MarkDude> And hope to have my replacement around the time of OSCON
<MarkDude> Yes- I know :) I have been organizing events up there- it was funny when I was asked if I would be there-
<MarkDude> Had to explain that I was a bit south of them- and wont be there til July ;)
<MarkDude> If Ca does not want to share a table with WA- then it would be Oregon and WA
<MarkDude> and that opens up the PNW can of worms that should not be opened- this transition should be smooth- and not open up old stuff, imho
<pleia2> WA and OR sharing one probably makes the most sense
<pleia2> they are both small teams
<MarkDude> Well we can PM sometime about it- but there is a history with what happened with the PNW team
<MarkDude> That has some REALLY, REALLY bad potential
<pleia2> and I don't want to be seen as a state that invades other ones for events when we have plenty of our own
<MarkDude> We had a table last year
<MarkDude> shared with CA and WA
<MarkDude> Ryan Singer , valorie, and myself mostly
<MarkDude> So the change would be CA NOT having a table shared as it did last year
<pleia2> I've participated in other team events, but never brought along my own team stuff, just helped the teams there
<MarkDude> Well Oregon CANT request a regular conference pack
<MarkDude> WA and CA can
<pleia2> they can request a regular one, just not the approved team pack
<MarkDude> So if it is just OR- then it will be smaller than last year
 * MarkDude knows :)
<MarkDude> it would be a downgrade then
<MarkDude> as oppsed to growth
<pleia2> so have WA and OR do it :)
<pleia2> really, we don't want to be the over-aggressive southern sister loco
<MarkDude> CA is invited -
<pleia2> by you?
<MarkDude> and has had a presence for the last two years
<MarkDude> by oreilly
<pleia2> you can do what you like, I don't have a formal objection, just offering my opinion
<MarkDude> well please trust me on CA being HELPFUL here
<MarkDude> it is  matter of making sure WA does not have to do the heavy lifting
<MarkDude> other teams besides CA and WA are invited to help
<jdeslip> Is anyone from CA going besides you MarkDude?
<MarkDude> Yes at least 3 folks from GidgetKitchen
<MarkDude> as well as one of the GK founders now in Portland
<MarkDude> Ryan will be there
<MarkDude> We have a sponsored house this year :D
<MarkDude> Ryan is a marketing GOD
<jdeslip> MarkDude: Is there is more than one Ubuntu LoCo table there??  Why not just have one really big one put on by the WA team that anyone can join if they like?
<jdeslip> err OR team I guess
<MarkDude> Well - Oregon is having ONE goal there- to recruit folsk to join their team
<MarkDude> Last year the Ubuntu table was to provide info about Ubuntu in general
<MarkDude> Canonical did NOT have a table there last year
<MarkDude> So information about the #3 OS was provided by the Ubuntu table
<MarkDude> Anyway, we can talk later,
 * MarkDude sorta has his mind made up here- I can see about having a formal invite sent to the team leads
<MarkDude> ALL of you headed to the Thirsty bear- take a camera
<MarkDude> take pictures
<iheartubuntu> i was curious... does the CA team have to pay fees for booths at events like scale?
<pleia2> scale we didn't
<pleia2> solano stroll we did I think
<pleia2> depends on the event, their policies for non-5013c clubs, etc
<MarkDude> No fees
<MarkDude> Oreilly provides it fro free
 * MarkDude has to leave the coffee shop now- and go do some actual lifting and sweating work
<MarkDude> jdeslip, I can put it in an email later- no hurry on the time- we have time til OSCON
<nhaines> If after 3 years the Oregon LoCo still can't put on an event I wonder if they need some big changes.
<jdeslip> MarkDude: I actually don't know what you are proposing, but I don't see any problem with CA team members (or anyone else for that matter) spending some time at the Ubuntu Oregon LoCo booth at OSCON to help out.
<nhaines> jdeslip: He wants the California and Washington teams to run the table.
<nhaines> Although it sounds more like he actually wants California Team to run the table with Washington Team in a support role.
<nhaines> Which is silly, because all a table needs is bodies, and maybe CDs.
<kdubois> "natty", weird adjective for a whale. natty was the cheapest beer back on campus.... :)
<iheartubuntu>  i just saw that at the store the other day. Id never heard of a Natty beer before!
<iheartubuntu> Natty = Dreadlocked OS in the heart of America! Woo yo yoo! Woo yoo yoo yoo... Ubuntu Soldier, Dreadlocked OS
<seidos> beer:  the money pit of a new generation
<seidos> i wish i could say how much $ i wasted on beer
<seidos> heffeweizzen, negra modelo, all kinds of India Pale Ales
<iheartubuntu> i dont think its a waste :)
<iheartubuntu> although it literally turns into waste
<seidos> at one point i was like "why don't i try to get the most alcohol for the $?"
<seidos> you know, that's value...
<iheartubuntu> do you waste it or did it waste you? :)
<seidos> dude, i'm totally wasted
 * seidos crashes his laptop
<iheartubuntu> I have a place near me with something like 50 beers on tap. way better and fresher than say yard house
<iheartubuntu> a 36 oz large is $10
<iheartubuntu> I once had 3 of those. yikes
<iheartubuntu> I went down to 2 of them for a while. now i cant finish one
 * seidos wanders off to #iheartubuntu to talk about vodka and bourbon
<pleia2> release party tonight at thirsty bear \o/
<iheartubuntu> would you like soem authentic granny made vodka
<kdubois> iheartubuntu: natty is pretty low-par beer. doesn't even really taste like real beer
<jamalta> Wow, I just noticed Natty's multitouch stuff works... using 3-fingers will move the current window.. so awesome!
<sn9> well, that's more than my three fingers have ever been able to do before
 * seidos stays away from thirsty bears in san francisco
 * sn9 is not going to SF tonight
<iheartubuntu> who makes natty beer
<seidos> sn9: you're more like a bruin, no?
<sn9> ?
 * sn9 weighs 170 or so
<seidos> bears wear like 400 or so
<seidos> weigh*
<seidos> T_T
<iheartubuntu> wow did you see those terrible tornadoes back east?
<seidos> i haven't even looked at google news today
<seidos> i have to set up postfix
<sn9> if only it would show tornadoes hitting british royalty...
 * iheartubuntu german royalty
<iheartubuntu> the windsors changed their name to sounds more british
<iheartubuntu> but i agree
<sn9> a la "king ralph"
<iheartubuntu> this is a diff world now than bowing to some king or queen
<iheartubuntu> although i have to bow to the dirty dishes every night :(
<seidos> i'm sure there are plenty of snobs to replace the current "royal family"
 * seidos bows to iheartubuntu 
<seidos> tag, you're it
 * iheartubuntu iheartubuntu bows to the CA team members
<iheartubuntu> ink a bink
<iheartubuntu> a bottle of natty
<seidos> haha, nice one
 * seidos gets drunk from humility, then swings from the chandelier in his skivvies
<kdubois> oh, they dont come in bottles, iheartubuntu  :D
<iheartubuntu> a cardboard box?
<iheartubuntu> wow, Beer Advocate gives Natty Beer an A+ rating
<iheartubuntu> http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29/1524
<iheartubuntu> .
<iheartubuntu> .
<iheartubuntu> .
<iheartubuntu> NOT
<kdubois> it has its place, if you have to throw a party for 500 of your closest friends
 * kdubois has always suspected it was grain alcohol and beer flavoring mixed together
<iheartubuntu> Natty is 5.9% alc
<iheartubuntu> and cheaper than soda
<pleia2> ew
<iheartubuntu> "the smell of american aluminum" haha
<iheartubuntu> "urine colored salty water"
<pleia2> we put together a proposal to host a kde conference in philly once, I was the beer advisory committee (the thought was no european kde developer would come to the US, land of horrible bear, so I had to find good ones and select the places to go)
<iheartubuntu> so no natty?
<pleia2> not so much
<kdubois> my german roommate said that ann arbor, mi was the best beer town he's seen
<pleia2> pennsylvania has crazy packaged liquor laws, but we make up for it in amazing brewpubs and bars in philly
<iheartubuntu> the fact that there was a beer advisory commitee for a kde conference = THUMBS WAY UP
<kdubois> they have some respect for us more since the microbrewery craze
<pleia2> iheartubuntu: it's very important! :)
<seidos> there should be a cola advisory committee
<kdubois> r/c ftw
<seidos> I drink what Warren Buffet drinks
<iheartubuntu> my city does not allow the purchase of single cans of beer. no the bums wait until they collect an extra couple dollars to buy a 4 pack. stupid.
<pleia2> philly was one of the first (maybe the first?) to host a beer week
<iheartubuntu> he drinks gold and silver right now
<seidos> Coke is the "poshest" cola
<seidos> it's like the Grey Goose of Cola
<iheartubuntu> i dont like pepsi, but i recently had some throwback pepsi made with sugar. very good.
<iheartubuntu> grey goose yuk
<seidos> Caffeine is a serious drug in sufficient quantities
<iheartubuntu> u need real stuff from poland
<seidos> i think 800 cans of mountain dew can kill
<seidos> ^_^
<seidos> Stolichnya
<seidos> vodka with a kick
<nhaines> I've had some sort of Czech beer that's like 12%.
<iheartubuntu> u need bison grass zubrowka vodka. dont buy it in the states tho, its all fake here
<nhaines> That's what I call a good investment.
<seidos> there's that really high proof beer i read about
<seidos> really expensive stuff
<nhaines> I'll take a doppelbock any day though.
<iheartubuntu> i had a moinette on the weekend
<iheartubuntu> a friend dropped over 3 bottles. he ended up drinking 2 of them
<seidos> i'd rather eat guacamole
<iheartubuntu> nhaines - i made a rauchbier last time i brewed. my sister begs me to make more
<iheartubuntu> smokey and chocolatey
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: the only one I've seen tastes like the bucket of water you put used fireworks in on the Fourth of July.
<pleia2> haha
<iheartubuntu> like i said. smokey and chocolatey
<iheartubuntu> :)
<iheartubuntu> fireworks on valentines :)
<iheartubuntu> i wasnt a fan of it, but my sister looks for similar beers now whenever we go beer hunting
<seidos> chocolate covered smoked salmon, yum!
<iheartubuntu> my marzen is the best and i think im hooked on it where i have no need to brew anything else
<seidos> fireworks on valentines in the afternoon
<seidos> apparently radiohead's paranoid android is "flagged for inappropriate content"
<iheartubuntu> nhaines - have u ever been to The Bruery someplace in OC
<iheartubuntu> looks interesting, but ive yet to make it
<iheartubuntu> wow, royals have banned beer from the reception. more reason to just say no to them
<pleia2> royals?
 * iheartubuntu just tossed his wedding invite
<iheartubuntu> the royal wedding
<pleia2> oh, right
<pleia2> my mother was one of the people who was all "oooh" over the princess diana wedding
<seidos> tall ones
<pleia2> I don't understand the sucession rules or what the king/queen of england actually do so I think the significance is lost on me
<iheartubuntu> what now will you both be watching
<pleia2> #ubuntu-us-ca probably :)
<iheartubuntu> :D
<pleia2> I don't even care for weddings of people I /know/
<pleia2> :)
<seidos> i really can't follow beer talk, someone else do it
<seidos> first beer, then weddings...it's like real life!
<seidos> oh yeah my girlfriend is into the Royal stuff, she's actually a fan of the queen.  "tough upper lip"
<iheartubuntu> i dont care for funerals myself
<iheartubuntu> i dont think i'll be at mine
<iheartubuntu> hopefully on another planet or something
<pleia2> I don't think you're supposed to like funerals
<iheartubuntu> i avoid them.
<pleia2> sadly they tend to be the only time my family comes together from all over the world
<pleia2> so I go
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: nope, but I've been to the Rathskeller.
<seidos> i think they should just have funerals when people are born
<seidos> has anyone else heard of the "Layer One Security Conference" in Anaheim?
<nhaines> I might buy an Aventinus doppelbock to drink when I'm gaming tomorrow night.
<nhaines> Have to keep my energy up.
<iheartubuntu> gaming?
<pleia2> doppelbocks bring back fond memories of goat races
<iheartubuntu> tipping goats?
<pleia2> nope, just racing
<iheartubuntu> :)
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: tabletop gaming.
<iheartubuntu> what is the rathskeller
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/images/journalpics/slyfox_maibock_festival_2007_bob_lyz_ron_nita_constance_david.jpg
<iheartubuntu> like poker? or pacman
 * pleia2 has 2 beers!
<pleia2> (also I was thin then)
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: like Dungeons and Dragons.
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/images/journalpics/GO1.jpg <-- goat race
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: Rathskeller is a cellar bar at the Old World European Market in Huntington Beach.
<pleia2> they'd name their newly tapped maibock after the winning goat
<iheartubuntu> beer! TWO BEERS!
<iheartubuntu> maibock mmmmmmmm
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: http://www.rathskeller.us/
<pleia2> one year a deer ran through the festival, we were all so drunk "was that a goat?" "it was a deer!" "no way!" "WAY" "Nooo!" we later confirmed with staff that it was a deer
<pleia2> ah pennsylvania :)
<seidos> i'll take that as a no
<nhaines> I found (and bought) a quart-sized can of beer a couple weeks ago.  And gladly accepted that challenge.
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/images/journalpics/Cheers.jpg
<pleia2> those are the glasses from the deer day
<pleia2> they were quite large
<iheartubuntu> no way
<iheartubuntu> you stretched the photo!
<iheartubuntu> thats got to be 30 oz
<iheartubuntu> will be going for large quantities of beer tonite now
<iheartubuntu> dads bday
<pleia2> I drank too much at the lucid release party, I shall try not to repeat that
<iheartubuntu> haha
<pleia2> fortunately I only live half a block away :)
<iheartubuntu> ohhh :)
<iheartubuntu> thats nice
<pleia2> (for the record, I didn't pick the venue!)
<nhaines> Last time I was at Old World restaurant I ordered a Warsteiner Dunkel, and I guess because I said "dunkel" instead of "dark" the waitress switched to German mode.
<pleia2> german mode?
<nhaines> Well, the next question was "Gross oder klein?"  (large or small)
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> gross!
<nhaines> My brainstem kicked in and said "gross!" and the rest of the evening I spoke to her in German.  :)
<pleia2> hehe, nice
<iheartubuntu> es ist gross!
<nhaines> One time I was there with coworkers and one of their kids joined me in the market as I was looking for beer/candy.  There were some German tourists in there, so I said "hi" in German and just started talking to them in German.
<iheartubuntu> and then you gave them an ubuntu disc
<nhaines> You should've seen the look on my friend's face.  I put my arm around the boy (he was 8) and said "Isn't he cute?  He looks so confused because he has absolutely no idea what we're saying."
<nhaines> I think they said (in German) "Oh, how cute!  Can't you speak German?"  He's not usually shy but he did hide behind me, haha.
<iheartubuntu> and then the boy broke out in a rap and all of you had no clue what HE was saying
<iheartubuntu> i wonder what a german would think if you gave them a natty
<iheartubuntu> i heard to big words used in switzerland last year... "javol" and "ja ja"
<iheartubuntu> i was getting tired of the "yah yah" heard everywhere. almost like a relfex action from the whole nation when saying yes to something
<iheartubuntu> it became a rallying cry for me whenever i ordered a beer
<iheartubuntu> do you want the big beer sir? YAH YAH
<iheartubuntu> nhaines do u like the spaten optimater
<iheartubuntu> warsteiner is the main beer now at the big bear oktoberfest
<iheartubuntu> do i get a spaten oktoberfest tonite or a pabst blue ribbon
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: yes, I love Spaten.  :)
<iheartubuntu> im torn between a erdinger weissbier or a spaten
<nhaines> Franziskaner doppelbock is also good.
<nhaines> I like dark ambers most.
<iheartubuntu> my beer place blocks away i think has franz on tap
<iheartubuntu> i like newcastle when i cant get me a beer i like
<iheartubuntu> im going to pick up natty this weekend and do a bait and switch on my neighbor. see if he figures it out :)
 * iheartubuntu is waiting for ubuntu store to do a groupon :)
<nhaines> ha!
<iheartubuntu> that will be a cold day
<iheartubuntu> Ubuntu Store 50% OFF
<iheartubuntu> that would go so fast
<iheartubuntu> just curious if anyone here has had any ghostly experiences
<kdubois> more as a kid than now :)
<kdubois> #ubuntu sure has a lot of unity transition complaints today
<pleia2> not at all surprising, change is scary :)
<kdubois> yeah, but some changes (eg, picking up compiz as default) were met with open arms
<kdubois> although, this is a bigger change, not an apples-to-apples exactly
<crashsystems> IMHO Unity will be just like buttons on the left.
<nhaines> I agree.  Once you get used to Unity it's very efficient.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-04-29
<iheartubuntu> nhaines - how is key commands then mouse clicks more efficient then me just clicking the workspace i want?
<iheartubuntu> or mouse clicks then more mouse clicks?
<iheartubuntu> seems less efficient from my use unless im just firing up supertuxkart every day all day long
<iheartubuntu> of course i could put QBrew as my #1 app in natty. that would solve everything
<iheartubuntu> ever since i lost my invest app on my bottom panel i have not been too thrilled. it doesnt work in classic mode either
<iheartubuntu> i gave up on reporting it not working
<iheartubuntu> someone kept checking my bug report to a bug report that was blank
<iheartubuntu> changing, not checking
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: I think you'll find that Ctrl-Alt-[arrow keys] is most efficient.
<crashsystems> if you want one click to switch to a workplace, there is an app indicator for that
<crashsystems> https://launchpad.net/indicator-workspaces
<nhaines> I want to know more about Quicken for Ubuntu.
<crashsystems> nhaines: quicken for ubuntu?
<nhaines> crashsystems: yup.
<nhaines> It's mentioned here: http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/features/office-applications
<jamalta> nhaines:
<jamalta> interesting, it's not even in the repositories by default
<crashsystems> isn't quicken one of the commercial apps that some companies use for accounting?
<nhaines> crashsystems: you're thinking of QuickBooks.
<crashsystems> I also think there is one called quicken
<crashsystems> aka http://quicken.intuit.com/
<nhaines> crashsystems: that's a personal finance application, not a business finance application.
<broder> i don't see quicken in u-s-c
<nhaines> broder: me either.
<nhaines> If I can migrate my mom from Microsoft Money to Quicken, and Quicken runs on Ubuntu, then I could migrate her from Windows XP to Ubuntu.
<nhaines> This would be a double win, since Money is end-of-life.
<jamalta> It's not even listed under For Purchase
<jamalta> Strange... :\
<iheartubuntu> maybe quicken will pop up in the paid apps
<iheartubuntu> if quickbooks pro hits ubuntu my life would be great :)
<iheartubuntu> my wife is adamant about having some form of XP running someplace that has money on it
<nhaines> iheartubuntu: so would you say she puts her money where her mouse is?  :zing:
<pleia2> exopc rumor was true, grantbow has one
<nhaines> Which rumor was that?
<pleia2> 18:41:05 < akk> So, I have no idea if this is true, but there's a rumor (posted to BALUG) that Intel is giving out EXOPC tablets to everyone who attends their meego developer camp tomorrow at Moscone.
<nhaines> ooh
<pleia2> meeting up with him as soon as I wrap up work, I shall steal it from him
<pleia2> (just kidding)
<pleia2> ((maybe))
<pleia2> heading downstairs to begin pre-release-party adventures!
<jono> hey all
<jono> so who is going to the Thirsty Bear tonight?
<sn9> not me
<pleia2> grantbow and I are at our regular ubuntu hour coffee shop playing with his meego exopc
<jono> pleia2, cool, I am going to set off fairly soon
<pleia2> cool :)
<jono> I think my wife and a few Ubuntu folks I know are coming too
<nhaines> Well, I'm not at the Thirsty Bear but I *am* drinking spezi.
<jamalta> it was great meeting those who were there :)
<jamalta> sn9: some of the fl people are coming up during google i/o. think you can make it?
<sn9> when?
<jamalta> probably going to meet somewhere near the moscone center.
<jamalta> sn9: not sure exactly, either may 10 or 11.
<sn9> hmm, i might need a reminder
<jamalta> sure thing.. i'll let you know a few days before :)
<philipballew> How was the release party?
<philipballew> my computer wont update to 11.04 when i type "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade  && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" what am i doing wrong?
<sn9> wrong command
<sn9> it's sudo do-release-upgrade
<sn9> or something like that
<philipballew> oh, i see. thanks. i thought what i was doing was right, then i found this online and it confirmed (well i thought it did) https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+question/154667 but still didn't work
<jamalta> night everyone
<iheartubuntu> you may now kiss the bride/groom
<DarkwingDuck> Oh god... not you too
<iheartubuntu> yup - i drank too much
<iheartubuntu> now im nursing a big glass of water
<iheartubuntu> :D
<DarkwingDuck> hehehe Wife woke me up for it.
<iheartubuntu> how are you doing dave
<iheartubuntu> these hats
<DarkwingDuck> Yeah...
<DarkwingDuck> I'm tired. Updating my server to 11.04
<iheartubuntu> how old are kate and whats his name
<iheartubuntu> where did the years go
<iheartubuntu> have u been to UK
<iheartubuntu> ive never been to westminster
<iheartubuntu> are there many changes in the server edition?
<DarkwingDuck> Not sure... I'll let you know.
<sn9> someone mentioned in another channel that kde4 can be built with gtk instead of qt, and that compiz has been ported to windows. am i THAT out of the loop?
<akk> kde with gtk instead of qt sounds unlikely.
<akk> compiz on windows wouldn't surprise me too much.
<akk> hmm, on second though, probably it should surprise me. I guess it does sound unlikely.
<crashsystems> compiz on windows?! o_O
<pleia2> I know there are some tools that can do compiz-like effects on windows, but afaik compiz itself isn't ported
<jamalta> sn9: ...wow, someone's not right in the head. lol.
<pleia2> jamalta: nice to meet you last night!
<jamalta> pleia2: thanks! nice to meet you too :)
<jamalta> sorry i had to run out so early.. it was fun to see everyone.
<jamalta> well, a few of you. there was too many people there, hehe
<pleia2> no worries, that's why we picked such a casual venue :)
<pleia2> yeah, the turnout was suprising to me
<pleia2> not as big as lucid, but lots of people I didn't expect to see :)
<jamalta> pleia2: that's always a good thing though!
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ubuntu-us-ca/sets/72157626484097009/
<pleia2> some photos from last night :)
<jamalta> woo! nice :)
<sn9> is that a furby?
<pleia2> no, it's a narwhal
<sn9> a furry narwhal?
<pleia2> yes
<MarkDude> pleia2, how come there are no pictures of the narwhal outfit Jono was wearing ? >> https://picasaweb.google.com/tuxwingsgroup/PhotoEdits#5601069697291723874
<jamalta> MarkDude: O.O
<jamalta> Is that real?
<jamalta> Oh, I get it.. his face was printed out, right?
 * MarkDude used GIMP to do it
<jamalta> Ah... makes more sense :)
<pleia2> that's just scary
<iheartubuntu> thats what i was thinking too
<iheartubuntu> it looks like the face was cut and pasted
<MarkDude> I was halfway thinking of pretending it was real
<MarkDude> it was iheartubuntu
<MarkDude> The other folks in the pics are Oakland A's players
<jdeslip> In case anyone is interested I just built a python google cloudprint server for ubuntu in my ppa
<jdeslip> It is pretty sweet.  Allows you to connect your cups printers to cloud print without having to run chrome all the time
<akk> cool
<jdeslip> Been printing from my tablet all morning :)
 * crashsystems wants to poke around at cloud print
 * akk only turns the printer on when I'm standing next to it and about to print something, but it's fun to hear about this stuff anyway
<jamalta> jdeslip: oh sweet
<jamalta> wait, you can't run google cloud print on linux at all, can you?
<pleia2> nope
<jamalta> jdeslip: do you have the code up somewhere? i'd love to try it out sometime :)
<akk> Really? Doesn't google use mostly linux internally?
<jamalta> akk: i think they went with the most popular approach
<jamalta> but that's just a guess
<pleia2> when they launched it they said they were working on a linux version, but no word yet, and the docs still say "you will need to install Google Chrome on a Mac or Windows computer that's connected to your printer"
<jdeslip> jamalta: the code is available here: https://github.com/armooo/cloudprint/
<jdeslip> I just patched it a little to fix a bug I found and then packaged it into my ppa
<jamalta> jdeslip: ah cool :)
<pleia2> nice
<jdeslip> pleia2: you can run cloudprint in the linux version of chrome.  You have to go to about:labs and enable cloud print proxy
<pleia2> ooh
<jdeslip> But, I prefer this python script.  It think it is crazy to have to have chrome running to use my printer
<pleia2> neat
<pleia2> yeah
<jdeslip> and you can run this on login and just pipe the output somewhere if you want
 * pleia2 haz no about:labs
<pleia2> hrm
<jdeslip> about:flags
<jdeslip> sorry
<pleia2> no cloud print proxy there
 * pleia2 upgrades
<pleia2> chrome-stable?
<jdeslip> Oh, I am running beta
<jdeslip> (not the development/nightly one, but beta one)
<nhaines> akk: I was just thinking about nouns becoming verbs (and verbing weirds language!), such as "googling" and "xeroxing" and so forth.
<nhaines> akk: And it occured to me that GIMP wasn't a product whose name readily lent itself to verbing.
<akk> I say "gimping" or "gimped" pretty often.
<nhaines> akk: in the context of photoediting?
<akk> yes, "I gimped that image"
<akk> "I'm gimping up this year's xmas card"
<MarkDude> How about- the image I did was GIMPtacular?
<MarkDude> GIMPerrific
<MarkDude> also gimptastic
<MarkDude> Not the last one per se- that was tooo simple
<akk> I like those.
<jamalta> Haha, nice
<jdeslip> My build of cloudprint has a problem... and now the launchpad is broken so can't upload the fix :(
<pleia2> yeah, they're working on fixing ppa uploads
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-04-30
<pleia2> yay I just google cloud printed from my chromeos laptop :D
<nhaines> yay oneiric is now open for development.
<pleia2> upgrade to chrome-stable offered it in about:flags
<crashsystems> I was not very impressed with chrome OS. the netbook was nice though
<jamalta> nhaines: what's oneiric?
<jamalta> crashsystems: +1
<jamalta> i just put ubuntu on it :)
<crashsystems> I'm not ready to risk putting that much stuff "in the cloud"
<crashsystems> jamalta: oneiric is the code name for the next release
<crashsystems> as a side note, I've got Friday stuck in my head
<sn9> who doesn't?
<jamalta> crashsystems: oh wow... i missed that
<pleia2> and nexus one prints \o/
<jamalta> pleia2: grats! :)
<crashsystems> relevant -> http://www.youtube.com/v/v6TRV1TJfyk?version=3&autoplay=1&start=45
<nhaines> jamalta: Ubuntu 11.10 is codenamed "Oneiric Ocelot".  "Oneiric" is from a Greek word and means "relating to or suggestive of dreams".
<pleia2> apparently oneiric isn't in the libreoffice dictionary, we were making jokes last night about mark making up words/taking from other languages :)
<jamalta> Ah ok
<jamalta> Haha
<jamalta> There's no blog post about oneiric yet?
<pleia2> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/646
<jamalta> Oh, nevermind.. it was posted a while ago.
<pleia2> from March
<pleia2> yeah
 * jamalta has been out of the loop, I guess...
<pleia2> :)
 * nhaines is waiting for perilous panda.
<crashsystems> +1
<nhaines> My favorite #ubuntu+1 quote was from the lucid beta.
<nhaines> "grub, x.org, and update-manager all have updates pending.  What could possibly go wrong?"
<pleia2> hehe
<nhaines> yay, the 11.04 installer CD.  "This computer currently has Ubuntu 6.06.2 LTS on it.  What would you like to do?"
<pleia2> wow
<nhaines> "Upgrade Ubuntu 6.06.2 LTS to 11.04".  Sooo tempting!
 * pleia2 chuckles
<akk> That might be what you'd *like* to do ...
<crashsystems> o_O
<nhaines> pleia2: I wanted to put something ancient on my secondary system.  5.04 was tempting but I decided to go with an LTS.  :)
<pleia2> ah :)
<crashsystems> why?
<pleia2> I think I actually have a 5.04 pressed CD around here somewhere
<pleia2> (that's when they had separate live an installer)
<nhaines> pleia2: because the alpha 2 -> final upgrade was having graphics problems and I have every Ubuntu release on my My Book Live.
<pleia2> s/an/and
<pleia2> hah, nice
<nhaines> Yeah, I'm surprised IT didn't hunt me.
<nhaines> It's 62.8GB.  :)
<nhaines> Anyway, I might try Ubuntu 4.10 next.
<nhaines> I really want to get ahold of Ubuntu 4.10 discs.  :(
<pleia2> 4.10 had to be the first one I installed (my first install was March of 2005) but I don't think I've ever seen the disks
<nhaines> pleia2: my first install was May 2005.  :)
<pleia2> the only reason I know is that I signed up for ubuntuforums.org the same day :)
<nhaines> Ah!  I think I waited until October.  :)
<crashsystems> hah, summer 05 is when I started using linux
<pleia2> Join Date
<pleia2> March 12th, 2005
<pleia2> didn't switch from debian on my desktop until the end of 2007 though
<crashsystems> I remember the reason I switched to Ubuntu was because it was the first distro where ACPI worked on my laptop.
<jdeslip> In case anyone is interested, the Linux Action Show is live streaming from Linux Fest Northwest.  Coming up next is the "Why Linux Sucks" session :)
<jdeslip> jblive.tv
#ubuntu-us-ca 2011-05-01
<DarkwingDuck> Anyone around?
<DarkwingDuck> That can test something for me really quick?
<seidos> i think so
<MarkDude> Is there any reason the next Geeknic should not be held in Los Gatos on the 28th? The weekend after Maker Faire
<EureCA> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings edited | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/Current edited
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-04-23
<pleia2> meeting in a minute :)
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<DonkeyHotei> why do i always forget it's sunday?
<pleia2> ok, who all is here for the meeting?
<DonkeyHotei> me, i guess
<jyo> o/
<philipballew> 0/
<pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/12April22
<eps> o/
<pleia2> #topic Ubuntu 12.04 Release on Thursday, April 26th
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/PreciseRelease
<akk> o/ here too
<pleia2> so the 12.04 release is coming up this week :)
<pleia2> only an event in SF so far: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/1615/detail/
<philipballew> Who all is going?
<pleia2> the link has the RSVP list
<pleia2> good crowd so far, and a lot of people don't tend to RSVP (or do it last minute) so I'm hoping for a good turnout
<philipballew> yeah. thats how it happens
<pleia2> as a reminder to anyone, you can plan your own events elsewhere :) even if it's just an Ubuntu Hour you move to release night to mix things up a bit, or have an installfest in a few weeks
<pleia2> unfortunately nothing really came of the noisebridge folks who expressed interest in running an installfest
<pleia2> if I have some time this summer I might follow-up with them about leading one
<pleia2> anyone else have anything about release stuff?
<DonkeyHotei> it is my understanding that the above-linked event is simply a drinking party, so i'm not sure it would be worth it for me to go and just sit there doing nothing
<philipballew> I can help out if it is in the city this summer probably. I have nothing going on
<pleia2> DonkeyHotei: it's the same as all our thirsty bear events, food, beer, other drinks, talking about ubuntu and open source stuff
<DonkeyHotei> i don't think i've ever actually been to thirstybear
<pleia2> I wouldn't call it a "drinking party" but it is a party so there isn't really an agenda or anything
<dax> DonkeyHotei: I don't drink either and have been to them and did a non-zero number of things, so...
<eps> It's a drinking party.
<philipballew> if you want to have a release party a post uds party is still not to late
<philipballew> the uds mark shuttleworth speech... thats a drinking party
<eps> That's a drinking game
<pleia2> I think I don't actually know what a "drinking party" is
<pleia2> a party where there is drinking?
<dax> philipballew: I was under the impression that the entire Ubuntu community went into hibernation for a week after UDS, though :P
<pleia2> yeah, we do have the complication of UDS being local, so a few of us are pretty tied up with UDS planning post release ;)
<philipballew> dax, yeah, but the release party is not for jusy the uds people. if someone holds one post uds, id crash it
<DonkeyHotei> philipballew: when are you actually in town?
<pleia2> otherwise I would have tried to do something more than just our standard "hang out at thirsty bear"
<philipballew> saturday before uds\
<DonkeyHotei> ah
<DonkeyHotei> until?
<philipballew> august
<DonkeyHotei> ohh
<DonkeyHotei> but i'm assuming the bulk of that is in sac
<pleia2> anything else about release stuff before we talk about UDS?
<philipballew> napa for a while DonkeyHotei
<philipballew> hum, im spending all of may after uds in napa helping my 80 year old grandmother remodel her house and landscape
<DonkeyHotei> oh, right
<philipballew> something to do...
<philipballew> but I have the ability to go and do whatever i need
<pleia2> #topic Ubuntu Developer Summit: May 7-11
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UDS-Q
<philipballew> totally going to crash this...
<pleia2> so the only confirmed thing we're doing for UDS is the Wednesday night tourism night (and I'm running a dinner for Ubuntu Women project members on Thursday)
<philipballew> baseball game a no-go?
<pleia2> I need to email Michael Paoli about the Debian dinner (he was going to send a save-the-dae)
<pleia2> date
<pleia2> philipballew: I haven't heard any plans about it yet
<philipballew> pleia2, do you not have a ubuntu hour that week i assume?
<pleia2> philipballew: want to follow up with MarkDude about it?
<jyo> Well, I've been a bit too busy to figure stuff out for an A's outing; anyone else should catch with MarkDude
<pleia2> right, no SF ubuntu hour that week
<philipballew> ill email mark on behalf of the loco
<pleia2> thanks philipballew :)
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to email mpaoli re: debian
<pleia2> #action philipballew to talk to MarkDude re: A's game during UDS
<philipballew> i like that one debian dinner i went to. that food was really good
<pleia2> I'll also blog to the Ubuntu Planet this Friday (after release!) about UDS plans so maybe we can get some feedback about what people want to do
<pleia2> philipballew: this time he's picking a chinese place in oakland, I'm sorry I'm missing it
<philipballew> is there anything we can do to help people with the area? take them around and help them not get lost?
<philipballew> teach the sf slang?
<eps> Given the proximity to Oakland's chinatown, that's something of a no-brainer
<pleia2> eps: indeed
<pleia2> philipballew: ah, speaking of which!
<philipballew> ill teach them all why hella is a real word
<eps> I'm sure there will be plenty of possibilities for the other nights.
<pleia2> I got these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/7052367909/
<pleia2> eps: Monday, Tuesday and Friday are typically sponsored events at the summit itself, people don't have to go but Monday and Friday in particular it's pretty expected that people will be there
<philipballew> pleia2, ill carry around maps. I get free aaa maps
<pleia2> so those pins are for locals who can be helpful at UDS
<DonkeyHotei> richard stallman picks out reasonably good places to eat in oakland's chinatown at random
<eps> Wait, we're not all going to AT&T Park Friday night?
<pleia2> I'll give them out at UDS to whoever wants them, and your job is to be helpful :)
<pleia2> eps: Friday night is the big closing party
<jyo> My default advice will be $20 clipper card. :)
<pleia2> jyo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/PublicTransit
<pleia2> we made a whole page :)
 * akk got a clipper card specifically for UDS :)
<philipballew> eps, i thought they were out of town that week and not a p-bell?
<eps> Friday night is Roger Waters performing The Wall live
<DonkeyHotei> my clipper card auto-reloads at the $20 level atm
<jyo> The Giants roadtrip starts the Sunday before UDS and ends the Monday after.
<jyo> ah
<philipballew> Do I need a clipper card if I plam to roam the bay area all week then i assume?
<pleia2> you never need a clipper card
<pleia2> but it is nice to use one card and one source of payment for all transit
<eps> philipballew: Don't worry. You'll get one.
<pleia2> instead of buying tickets, making sure you have exact change, etc
<akk> philipballew: It just saves time, so you don't have to hassle with ticket machines every time.
<akk> . o O ( instead you have to hassle with wondering how much is left on the card and how to refill it? )
<pleia2> I think the refill machines (Right next to ticket machines in most places) can give you a balance
<pleia2> oh, I'll also follow up with Jack about the tour of NERSC he was offering
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to follow up with Jack re: NERSC tour at UDS
<pleia2> our next meeting is the day before UDS
<pleia2> anyone else have anything for now?
<pleia2> I'll firm up the plans in the next two weeks and send some notes to the list about what all ends up being on the schedule
<pleia2> #topic Other news, announcements, misc
<pleia2> grantbow and I did a BALUG presentation on 12.04 on Tuesday, our 2 page handout detailing some of the changes in 12.04 is available here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/handouts/12.04BALUGHandout.pdf
<pleia2> I think that's all I've got :)
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<philipballew_> pleia2, how late does uds go on Friday? I was going to figure out when I am leaving there, but dont want to miss the party and such...
<pleia2> philipballew_: depends on the hotel, party usually goes past midnight and people leave on saturday
<philipballew_> so then is my hotel paid for through Saturday or should i contact them to book further pleia2 ?
 * philipballew_ checks email
<pleia2> philipballew_: unless you told them otherwise you have the room sunday night through friday night
<pleia2> check in sunday, check out saturday
<philipballew_> alright. sweet! thanks pleia2 !
<zeidoz> \o i found the greenpeace study on cloud cleanliness interesting
<philipballew_> This animal name confuses me.
<DonkeyHotei> why?
<MarkDude> obscurity?
<philipballew_> maybe, or maybe that I have no idea how to say it.
<philipballew_> I mean animals are cool. id like something thats as cool as a name like beefy miracle, but that screams ubuntu
<akk> Which one? pangolin?
<DonkeyHotei> akk: yes
<dax> damnit, I parse that as a nick now.
<DonkeyHotei> i'm guessing "penguin" was just too obvious, and potentially confusing
<DonkeyHotei> dax: which?
<dax> DonkeyHotei: pangolin, they're an #ubuntu op
<akk> I like pangolin.
<akk> Because, yeah, penguin is too obvious even though they're awesome.
<DonkeyHotei> [Mon 2012-04-23 01:46:59 PM PDT] -NickServ- Registered : Oct 05 20:11:59 2011 (28 weeks, 5 days, 00:34:57 ago)
<DonkeyHotei> was that before the release name was picked, or after?
<philipballew_> no. ubuntu -q
<dax> right after, I'd imagine
<kdub> who got
<kdub> quetzal?
<akk> That's a good one.
<akk> Is that really the name?
<akk> Quagga would be good too.
<kdub> oh, no one read mark's blag today?
<philipballew_> I read it this morning. I spent 5 minutes trying to prononuce it. I think its cool.
<akk> As usual, fun animal, stupid adjective.
<akk> All that repetition of "quality" makes me think of the bad parts of "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance".
<philipballew_> ubuntu has shown more Quality lately
<philipballew_> for what the average computer user wants
<MarkDude> Makes Beefy Miracle loook less dumb
<MarkDude> I mean it still looks dumb
<MarkDude> not as much tho
<bkerensa> MarkDude: Four Light Fixtures with melting/arcing wires... One outlet our neighbor was siphoning power off of at our expense and our fluorescent lights in our kitchen had a ballast that got so hot the sheet metal melted like it had been hit with a arc welder..... How is your Monday? Oh and its 82 degrees!
<bkerensa> :P
<bkerensa> +3 total days with very limited power
<pleia2> code names are funny, I've taken to calling Debian by the numbers to our customers in preparation for Wheezy (not going to tell our customers we're installing Wheezy on their system :P)
<akk> That is a problem, yeah.
<pleia2> sarge, etch, even squeeze were ok
<MarkDude> Are you making it to UDS bkerensa ?
<DonkeyHotei> one of these days, i should actually watch toy story so i could stop being lost among all the debian releases
<pleia2> DonkeyHotei: you'll have to watch toy story and toy story 2! (wheezy is the first one to come from 2)
<DonkeyHotei> and 3, of course
<pleia2> nah, none of them are from 3 yet
<akk> I saw toy story but I don't remember most of the characters being called by those names anyway.
<pleia2> can probably wait a few years to watch that one :)
<DonkeyHotei> there probably would be a release from 3 by the time i get around to it
<akk> I can't believe they're still naming things after a silly movie that long ago.
<pleia2> silly isn't what I can't believe, copyright loving, proprietary is what gets me :)
<bkerensa> MarkDude: Are you kidding me after my power went out and sabdfl named 12.10  Quantum Quetzalcoatl? Of course
<bkerensa> :P
<akk> Quetzal, no coatl. :)
<DonkeyHotei> pleia2: you'd prefer they open-source the movie script?
<bkerensa> akk: What? sabdfl had the audacity to name it after a silly bird and not a Mesoamerican deity?!?!
<DonkeyHotei> what would be the benefit to the community from that?
<bkerensa> :D
<MarkDude> Winged serpent would have been better
<MarkDude> well most of us know about the mezo-diety
<MarkDude> not the animal
<pleia2> DonkeyHotei: no, I don't prefer anything, I am surprised that a distribution so committed to proprietary freedom still uses names from a non-free movie from a company known for aggressiv eproprietaryness
<pleia2> not asking disney to change, surprised that debian hasn't ;)
<akk> MarkDude: And we could use Quetzy from downtown San Jose as a mascot.
<akk> All hail the poop snake!
<bkerensa> MarkDude: Are you going to UDS, CLS or OSCON?
<bkerensa> MarkDude: apps for oscon start a week or two ago
<DonkeyHotei> toy story was chosen because the debian project leader at the time was debian project leader as part of his job working for pixar, on the movie
<pleia2> yep
<DonkeyHotei> so it's only fair
<DonkeyHotei> using debian for such a proprietary purpose fell fully within the DFSG
<MarkDude> akk lol
<MarkDude> UDS yes
<MarkDude> CLS and OSCON I just need to show up
<pleia2> DonkeyHotei: you're completely missing my point :) but I need to get back to work anyway
<MarkDude> Daddy Shadowman has it taken carre of
<bkerensa> MarkDude: Who is this Daddy Shadowman you speak of
<bkerensa> :)
<bkerensa> MarkDude: On May 11th you want to come out to Mountain View with me for a Mozilla VIP Party?
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> also if you wanna setup a MozCoffee while I'm down let me know so I can put in a funding request
<dragon> Mozilla VIP party sounds like fun!
<dax> bkerensa: redhat, I imagine
<bkerensa> dragon: We will be having a Mozilla WebFWD Mixer in Mountain View the night that UDS ends
<bkerensa> dax: yeah his minion redhat folk who give him a credit card to play with :P
<dragon> bkerensa: But UDS is in Oakland. Isn't that a bit too far?
<bkerensa> dragon: Mozilla will cover my transportation :)
<bkerensa> They take care of team members
<dragon> Fair enough.
<bkerensa> I do wish it was at the new SF office though.... MV is a bit of a trip
<dragon> Well, I live close to MV any way. MozParty sounds awesome, as long as Mozilla opens up their web store to developers soon!
<pleia2> the new SF office isn't very big
<MarkDude> bkerensa, maybe
<MarkDude> A friend maybe having a housewarming party
<bkerensa> MarkDude: tell that friend I want to go
<bkerensa> ;)
<MarkDude> Well, she has a limited list
<MarkDude> Maybe we can get you set up for some zombie pics tho
<dragon> Mozilla Marketplace is open to devs. I'm in.
<MarkDude> bkerensa, you met dragon ?
<MarkDude> both of yous guys are awesome peoples
<dragon> Hello bkerensa!
<bkerensa> MarkDude: I have not met in person
<MarkDude> Well you will
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-04-24
<Darkwing> MarkDude: you going to be at UDS?
<MarkDude> yes
<MarkDude> trying to get a few others to go
<philipballew> MarkDude, do you know about a uds a's game?
<philipballew> aint no party like a baseball party
<MarkDude> Uh, do we have 25 people interested?
<MarkDude> If we do we can get group price
<MarkDude> Create sumthin on the wiki
<MarkDude> Sat the 12th or maybe fri 11th
<philipballew> Toronto or detroit if my mind serves me correctly
<bkerensa> TIL that 20% of the Ubuntu Oregon LoCo Roster had Code Commits that were accepted into 12.04 LTS :)
<bkerensa> :D Now if we could just be as social as the folks down in Sunny California :D
<akk> Where do I report a bug on a page on help.ubuntu.com? Is there a launchpad project for that?
<philipballew> bkerensa, am i still okay to join the loco for oscon?
<bkerensa> philipballew: Still waiting on word back from O'Reilly.... They will let us know in June but I will discuss with you at OSCON
<bkerensa> akk: Doc Team
<akk> thanks, bkerensa
<bkerensa> akk: In theory though we are working to nuke help.ubuntu.com :)
<philipballew> bkerensa, alright, well have to talk about it at uds
<bkerensa> and replace it with Sumo
<akk> Ooh, I hope this page doesn't get nuked -- it's a great page modulo one very small error.
<akk> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
<philipballew> akk, cant people edit them?
<philipballew> there like wiki's right?
<akk> There's an ubuntu wiki but I think it has wiki in the url, doesn't it?
<bkerensa> akk: you can edit help.ubuntu.com :)
<bkerensa> its on my to do list to plow through updating a lot of documentation in Q cycle
<akk> Cool! If it ever logs me in (still waiting...) I'll fix the page myself.
<philipballew> bkerensa, the future docs master
<bkerensa> philipballew: not even :P it just needs to get done
<bkerensa> and Doc Team is really barebone right now
<bkerensa> there are less then 10 active people on the doc team
<akk> Will existing help pages be migrated to sumo?
<bkerensa> maybe more like 5 or less in reality
<philipballew> bkerensa,  I need to find a area of ubuntu to help in. One that screems, this guy is hip, and knows whats up. Any ideas?
<akk> Otherwise I want to make sure I capture this page -- I'm sure I'll want it again.
<bkerensa> akk: Most certainly... The talks are still very early right now but Sumo is a good platform and Canonical wants it and some of us like it
<bkerensa> :D
<akk> whew
<bkerensa> philipballew: Doc Work? Bug Control?
<philipballew> i do need to learn better programing skills. Big work can help right? bkerensa
<bkerensa> philipballew: Bug Work can... Start on bitesize and learn to package and keep on pushing on
<philipballew> packaging is fun
<akk> Yep. If you don't have programming projects you're already working on, fixing bugs can give you good motivation.
<philipballew> Im to uncreative to program my own stuff these days
<bkerensa> As soon as 12.10 Alpha 1 hits I can resubmit a bunch of merge proposals
 * bkerensa kept fixing bugs past the string freeze
<philipballew> bkerensa, what kinda bugs?
<philipballew> The california channel has been talkative today. This is good.
<DonkeyHotei> you mean on tv?
<philipballew> no, here. but I do like the california pbs channel
<philipballew> Hi, im huell howser and this is Californias gold!
<DonkeyHotei> i was referring to The California Channel
<DonkeyHotei> you know, from inside the capitol
<philipballew> hum, I dont have cable
<philipballew> I should look into that
<DonkeyHotei> i didn't have cable in Sac, either
<DonkeyHotei> no tv needed there to see the capitol
<philipballew> sac is a nice city. Except when you want to do something...
<DonkeyHotei> when wouldn't one want to do something?
<philipballew> maybe when Im sleeping
<philipballew> so basically sac is for people who want to sleep
<DonkeyHotei> i've slept more here in SF
<bkerensa> philipballew: So you wanted to do something really big in 12.10 right?
<bkerensa> :D
<philipballew> bkerensa, yeah! something that says, "wow, the phil person is good"
<bkerensa> philipballew: well I am going to likely be leading the Doc Team's transition of help.ubuntu.com from its current platform to Sumo :) I will likely need help with this and will start planning at UDS
<philipballew> I will be there. what is sumo?
<philipballew> do I have to sumo wrestle bkerensa ? because he would win...
<bkerensa> http://blog.mozilla.org/sumo/about/
<bkerensa> Sumo is basically a Support Platform that Mozilla Develops :)
<bkerensa> and its far superior to anything we have in the Ubuntu Community
<philipballew> so it runs on just firefox?
<philipballew> ah, i see what it is bkerensa. what all needs to be done?
<bkerensa> philipballew: Migrate all the articles from help.ubuntu.com to the new platform
<bkerensa> and test and configure the new platform in the cloud to ensure stability before pulling the plug on the old platform
<bkerensa> its a pretty massive project since help.ubuntu.com has so much content
<philipballew> bkerensa, what kind of skills do I need to do this?
<philipballew> I have some skills
<philipballew> num chuck skills
<philipballew> bow hunting skills
<philipballew> Im pretty good with a bow-staff
<bkerensa> philipballew: all of the above with a little bit of level 1 necromancy
<philipballew> That makes scene.
<philipballew> I dont see why I cant. I am always looking for some new computer skill to put on my resume.
 * akk plays with Mozilla's sumo ... seems to work fairly well but I wish they'd add "quoted phrase searches"
<philipballew> what programing language do I need to know bkerensa
<bkerensa> philipballew: none :)
<bkerensa> philipballew: I will just need volunteers to help me with migrating the heaps of content in its entirety
<philipballew> I do type docs for a living currently.
<bkerensa> and for testing
<philipballew> so yeah, I will help you lead the way here. Were gonna have to talk about it at UDS as well.
<bkerensa> philipballew: indeed
<philipballew> Is there a sumo session?
<philipballew> and if there is, do I have to come dressed a a sumo wrestler?
<bkerensa> philipballew: we will have to get a new one up... Canonistack instance died
<philipballew> whats that?
<akk> What's involved with migrating? They can't be imported automatically?
<philipballew> a nice script to do it maybe?
<philipballew> are there already meetings for uds scheduled around it bkerensa ?
<bkerensa> philipballew: nope... I am not sure how that works?
<bkerensa> pleia2: can I propose a meeting if I am leading a project in Q?
<philipballew> bkerensa, yeah, you can I believe.
<pleia2> bkerensa: anyone can propose a meeting, but you need to follow up with the team lead on that track to get it accepted
<pleia2> and be sure to follow the blueprint creation specs outlined in jcastro's email
<MarkDude> So UDS requires me to give my flight details
<MarkDude> AWESOME
<pleia2> arrival and departure from the summit should be required, but flight shouldn't be
<pleia2> (they weren't when I signed up)
<pleia2> MarkDude: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2012-April/001935.html
<pleia2> instructions I sent to the list for registering
<pleia2> (includes notes about arrival and departure)
<pleia2> that's how they track how many days people will be there so they can plan the right amount of stuff each day
<MarkDude> registerred
<MarkDude> Had to put the times I will be in area
<MarkDude> I put the week before- until August ;)
 * MarkDude is hoping many people will be able to attend the Jono-palooza loud music show the weekend before
<akk> Requiring arrival and departure shouldn't be required either -- or should be explained.
<akk> I had no idea what I was supposed to put there, so I just put the start/end dates of UDS.
<MarkDude> Shhhh, akk- your common sense need not apply here :D
<philipballew> yeah, Im gonna spend 3 weeks after uds in the area, so I was unsure what they meant...
<pleia2> yeah, it's certainly not designed for locals (the number of locals attending is usually a very small percentage)
<MarkDude> altho it does make sense to make count for each day
<akk> philipballew: I arrived in the area about 15 years ago, and I have no idea how many more years I'll spend here.
<pleia2> MarkDude: please be nice, these things are largely run by community volunteers
<pleia2> (summit itself is a community project)
<akk> If they want to know which days of the conference you'll be there, why don't they just ask that?
<philipballew> the bay area is to nice an area to leave
<philipballew> are you communing or using a hotel?
<akk> Even if I were flying, I'd be annoyed if they wanted to know how long I was going to stay afterward to explore the area -- none of their business.
<pleia2> akk: it's also used to help them coordinate when they should have buses at the airport and inviting people on group outings on the weekends
 * philipballew give up his bed for 20 a night, 50 I leave sleep on the other side of the room, and 100 I leave the room completely...
<akk> pleia2: For airport buses, it shouldn't be required of people not flying; for group outings, a "which days will you be there" would work better.
<philipballew> maybe if your a Canonical employee they would
<pleia2> they are looking for more volunteers to help with summit :) it's written in python in django
<MarkDude> A local button would make sense, but its cool. For a moment I thougt they were requirin flight #- and some take trains.
<MarkDude> Hella makes sense tho for days.
<philipballew> kevin, the guy I run the4 sd ubuntu hour with has to show up a week from today for uds and has more to worry about as hes a employee for instance
<akk> Initially I got a page that was asking questions like that, and passport #. But then when I went back, I got a different page that didn't ask those.
<MarkDude> I mean many folks might just be able to make weekend- tuesday
<MarkDude> or thur- weekend
<MarkDude> Without that info- I bet it would be much harder to plan
<philipballew> Im taking the train so the flight doesnt even apply
<MarkDude> +1 train
 * MarkDude loves the train
<akk> Trains rock.
<philipballew> who are you guys? Sheldon Cooper?
 * philipballew hides when they dont get the tv reference
<pleia2> I'm a member of the market street railway :D
<pleia2> I actually didn't know trains were a geek thing until watching TBBT
 * akk doesn't get the reference <- luddite
<pleia2> character from The Big Bang Theory, a show about some college physics researchers and their geekiness
<pleia2> he loves trains
<akk> Ah. That's a show I'd definitely watch if I had cable, but, oh well.
<philipballew> so MarkDude will you be trolling with your fedora shirt?
<pleia2> it's OTA
<pleia2> CBS
<akk> Can't pick up any broadcast here ... maybe we could if we bought a huge antenna.
<pleia2> ah
<philipballew> alot
<akk> Also, our TV is old and not digital and we never bought one of those converter dealies.
<pleia2> philipballew: I assure you, wearing a fedora shirt at UDS is not trolling
<pleia2> it's a very welcoming conference, and we want diversity in attendees
<pleia2> it's nice and healthy to get perspective from how other distros are doing :)
<philipballew> oh, sounds good then, Ill be sure to bring my windows server 2003 shirt then.
<pleia2> I really hope you're not comparing fedora to windows
<philipballew> no, im not :)
<pleia2> fedora is another community-driven open source distribution that has a lot of similarites to ubuntu
 * philipballew runs fedora
<pleia2> windows... I'm afraid we can't learn much from how they run their community (do they have one?)
<philipballew> shh, dont tell the ubuntu people
<pleia2> it's really not this big war you're making it out to be ;)
<pleia2> we should all run what works well for us, even if we contribute to both
<akk> Linux distro people are all on the same side!
<akk> The differences are really pretty small.
 * philipballew should never be takin seriously
<pleia2> philipballew: it reflects poorly on us all when we play the distros against each other
<pleia2> even joking (since it's hard to tell)
<philipballew> alright, will refrain. epically at uds.
<pleia2> there is plenty of that done by journalists and others wanting to cash in on inflammatory headlines, as members of this project we really don't need to feed the flames
<MarkDude> philipballew, I will wear my Beefy Miracle shirt
<philipballew> yeah, my google plus page was littered with a few articles last week about why Ubuntu is not linux and ubuntu is a evil distro... it seems odd that beople can take offence when you run a distro different then yours
<MarkDude> And next a Free Geek shirt
<MarkDude> then I will wear an *I    F    Freedom* shirt
<MarkDude> trolling tho, nope
<philipballew> yeah, dont worry, Im just messing with the trolling thing. I know that.
 * MarkDude only takes excpetion to Ubuntu NOTusing the word LINUX. And that silly phrase- the Ubuntu Kernel
<MarkDude> But I am more focused on common issues
<akk> Avoiding the word Linux is bad, yeah.
<pleia2> MarkDude: that's how we talk about kernels, even the Debian release notes reference the Debian Kernel, it means that it has specific patches for the distribution
<pleia2> and it's not avoided, the release notes everyone complains about said:
<pleia2> Ubuntu Kernel
<pleia2> Beta-2 includes the 3.2.0-20.33 Ubuntu kernel which is based on the v3.2.12 upstream stable Linux kernel.
<MarkDude> If there is a place to discuss the dropping the word Linux. I will do it there
<philipballew> I petitioned for it to be called philbuntu  a few releases ago, and for some reason they didn't go for it.
<philipballew> The website doesnt say linux on it.
<MarkDude> http://www.ubuntu.com/ ctrl f Linux- ZERO results
<akk> Just saying "The Ubuntu kernel" seems reasonable -- it does have changes from kernel.org kernels.
<pleia2> MarkDude: try that on http://www.debian.org/
<akk> That is strange, not mentioning Linux on the home page.
<philipballew> most ubuntu users know there using linux
<MarkDude> http://fedoraproject.org/ 2 results
<pleia2> MarkDude: try that on http://www.redhat.com/
<akk> philipballew: Do most prospective Ubuntu users know it's Linux?
<philipballew> philip@PrincessLeia:~$ uname -s
<pleia2> I know it's fun to single out Ubuntu, but they aren't the only one
<philipballew> Linux
<MarkDude> fair enough, were I going to Debian or RH event- I would be more concerned
<philipballew> its true, there not.
<MarkDude> Dont think I dont hard time RH
<MarkDude> :D
<akk> If I was marketing a distro, I'd make that a selling point -- something like "Stable, secure Linux kernel, proven on umpteen million systems from Android phones to Google servers."
<philipballew> not every ubuntu user runs uname though
<akk> Being Linux is a *good* thing.
<pleia2> akk: yeah, I am often surprised that they don't leverage Android more, it's the most popular linux ever (one of the most popular OSes ever)
<pleia2> but most people are shocked when I tell them android is linux
 * MarkDude does not usually use word Linux when talking about Partimus- I tell folks it i computers that help kds
<philipballew> I think people hear linux and think "complicated and command line scares me"
<pleia2> MarkDude: "Free Culture" is what we want to stress with Partimus
<akk> pleia2: And it makes "Linux" less scary -- "See? You're already using Linux, it's not just for geeks."
<akk> (Setting aside the question of whether most Android users are geeks :)
<MarkDude> Good point on Android
 * pleia2 back2work
<MarkDude> For the record RH has it once on their site
<MarkDude> And Puppy wins over all- its always called Puppy Linux
<MarkDude> Too bad they dont have gatherings :)
<MarkDude> UDS should be fun, too bad I dont have a penguin suit for it
<akk> Puppy gatherings sound fun ... everybody could chase balls and fetch sticks. :)
<akk> What happened to the penguin suit?
<MarkDude> It was stolen at last OSCON
<MarkDude> I was with Leslie hawthorn, and some OSU lab folks
<MarkDude> It was hanging up at coatrack
<MarkDude> and was gone
<akk> Oh no!
<akk> :(
<MarkDude> Daddy Shadowman will buy another. But I have been debating if I want to be known as the dude in the Penguin suit
 * MarkDude has decided yes
<MarkDude> Well 1st I would like to be known as * the Communitizer*
<bkerensa> pleia2: For about a $200 investment or so a LoCo could produce printed sleeves and CD's for about 5 cents per CD or $25 per 500
<bkerensa> they wouldnt be as shiny and glossy as the Canonical printed ones but definitely way cheaper
<pleia2> bkerensa: we use the paper sleeves
<pleia2> if we had $200 (which we don't) there are things we'd rather spend the money on, like pressed CDs
<bkerensa> pleia2: yeah I was asking our designer guy to transition our logo to your origami thing
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> but he didn't think people would take burned copies serious so we found a Canon printer that prints onto CD's
<pleia2> if we had nice pressed cds it might be worth upgrading the packaging too, but a nice cover is only really impressive if your CD inside isn't marked with a sharpie ;)
<pleia2> but at the end of the day we really can't afford either
<bkerensa> pleia2: yeah thats why we were discussing the $99 printer that makes nice printed cd's
<bkerensa> :d
<bkerensa> and a box of paper sleeves is 13
<bkerensa> $13*
<pleia2> I've also found CDs going the way of the dinosaur, we do a lot more with USB sticks these days
<pleia2> now cheap USB sticks would be good :)
<bkerensa> pleia2: USB's are $5 a pop
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> I think the cheapest I have found for custom printed 4GB USB's is $5
<pleia2> that's pretty cheap
<greg-g> what about 1 gig?
<greg-g> or do they even make them anymore? :)
<pleia2> 2G would be enough
<pleia2> but yeah, I don't think they make such small ones in bulk anymore
<pleia2> hi greg-g :)
<akk> Strangely, USB sticks don't seem to be any cheaper in bulk than singly.
<bkerensa> greg-g: no idea... the CTO at Linbit gave me and our asst lead two beer chalices and some thumbdrives and said they talked them down to $5 per 4GB drive for 250
<bkerensa> so if you bought 1000 then maybe even cheaper
<akk> You'd think there would be scads of places selling 1G sticks in bulk packs, but I haven't found any.
 * akk has been looking for a cheap 10-pack that a class of high schoolers can use to boot ubuntu
<philipballew> there cheap enough anyway
<bkerensa> pleia2: What we really need is a Public PXE system
<bkerensa> some way to network install but on a global scale
<greg-g> heya pleia2
<greg-g> (sorry, missed that) :)
<philipballew> bkerensa, you should set that up
<bkerensa> akk: Costco?
<bkerensa> philipballew: I would not know where to start I have not yet done a PXE install... always cd-rom or usb
<akk> bkerensa: Dunno, but after a $60 membership fee it wouldn't be all that cheap (and $60 just to get in to find out is even worse).
<akk> Or whatever they're charging now, it was something like that last I checked.
<philipballew> i set up a local pxe server once. Was not to hard
<bkerensa> akk: :P I have a Costco membership and if worse comes to worse I could go with you to the one in SF during UDS?
<akk> bkerensa: Does costco actually have a deal on usb sticks? If they do, I just might take you up on that.
<bkerensa> they have pretty good prices like a 8 pack of 4GB for 25 or something idk
<akk> That would be excellent.
<bkerensa> akk: They really do but its like seasonal?
<bkerensa> lol
<bkerensa> kind of like ipods and such
<bkerensa> no idea when they have them and when they dont :D
<akk> 8 is close enough, I could buy a couple of extras from microcenter or donate a couple of my own.
<bkerensa> might be good to call ahead and ask them
<pleia2> welcome BigWhale
<BigWhale> Greetings!
<Faqtotum> thar he blows
<BigWhale> So, I was wondering. I'll be at UDS and I'm flying in to SFO on 5th. It will be my third time in the city and I never really get to see any of it. Are there any local people willing to show me around and stuff? Hang out some?
<philipballew> Its always a whale of a tale with BigWhale
<pleia2> BigWhale: yep! on wednesday night we're offering some guided tourism, and I'll be doing shopping in SF with some folks on Sunday
<pleia2> BigWhale: some other events we're doing are being collected here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UDS-Q
<pleia2> shopping == downtown SF
<BigWhale> Sunday 6th?
<pleia2> yep
<BigWhale> Awesome!
<pleia2> downtown SF is an easy train/subway ride away from UDS
<pleia2> we made a public transit page too: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/PublicTransit
<philipballew> Just look for the Im local badges
<bkerensa> BigWhale: I am not "local" but I am a native Californian and know SF and most of the bay like the back of my hand
<pleia2> oh yes, California team members will be wearing "I'm a Local" badges at UDS itself :)
<philipballew> Were gonna be wearing them
<bkerensa> I am going to be doing a China Town excursion
<philipballew> bkerensa, when is that?
<pleia2> bkerensa: bay area debian announcement: http://bad.debian.net/list/2012-April/003491.html maybe talk to Michael Paoli about attaching more chinatown to that?
<bkerensa> philipballew: when I make a informal detour with like minded souls who enjoy back alley chinese food :P
<pleia2> (may be too late though)
<philipballew> I will be going to In N Out at least one night so all people wanting a burger can join.
<BigWhale> Now I'm glad I booked one flight earlier. :)
<pleia2> err, too late == to late at night
<philipballew> bkerensa, count me in
<pleia2> wait, SF chinatown or Oakland chinatown?
<philipballew> i assume sf
<bkerensa> pleia2: I want a "I'm Local Badge" :P I think Three Years of living in the Mission and one in the Marina qualifies :P
<pleia2> debian dinner is in oakland chinatown
<pleia2> bkerensa: sure
<philipballew> i will go to that as well
<bkerensa> pleia2: SF
<bkerensa> pleia2: I want to spend as little time in Oakland as possible :P
<pleia2> BigWhale: I'll firm up details of shopping on Sunday and blog about it later this week, and I'll also send details to the uds-announce list next week
<pleia2> about all our events
<bkerensa> pleia2: what night is bonfire on Ocean Beach?
<bkerensa> :d
<pleia2> bkerensa: ocean beach is a long ride
<pleia2> maybe saturday after uds ;)
<bkerensa> Bart to Embarcadero then N-Judah for Win
<bkerensa> :D
<pleia2> we can also go to the zoo!
<bkerensa> Zoo!
<BigWhale> pleia2, that would be great yes. :)
<bkerensa> did they get rid of the monkeys that throw bad stuf
<bkerensa> its been a long time
<pleia2> I don't know about monkeys throwing anything
<pleia2> their 42 year old grey seal died last month :( :(
<philipballew> THats the only reason I was gonna bring my baseball glove
<philipballew> :(
<BigWhale> Hmm... Zoo ...
<bkerensa> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3tx29pSicI <--
<bkerensa> Monkey does crazy dance to trick you then throws bad things you
<bkerensa> that guy
<BigWhale> If they have any Whales, we can free them!
<BigWhale> ;)
<pleia2> bkerensa: ah, the chimps are still in that spot, so maybe they do :)
<bkerensa> :(
<bkerensa> I guess its better then the Sac Zoo's Rhino
<pleia2> BigWhale: haha, we have whale cruises!
<pleia2> no captive whales though :)
<bkerensa> :D
<BigWhale> There better be no captive whale! ;)
<pleia2> sometimes whales get into the bay and we need to chase them out
<BigWhale> Now I'm starting to get excited... I might actually see some of San Francisco this time.
<philipballew> pleia2, Is the evebts page for official events, or can I add my in N Out trip im inviting people to there?
<bkerensa> BigWhale: Treasure Island is fun to check out if you get a chance.... They have a bus that leaves downtown and goes there.... Its a old naval base and they have unique things to see
<bkerensa> philipballew: the one in the wharf?
<akk> Too bad there's no transit to the south bay ... a tour of the best surplus stores would be fun.
<philipballew> I think so. Theres only one, maybe two if I am mastaken
<pleia2> philipballew: once you have all details and have it in loco.ubuntu.com you can put it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/OtherEvents
<philipballew> akk, they do have nice ones there
<pleia2> philipballew: until then, just put it under ideas or somewhere on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UDS-Q
<philipballew> thanks pleia2
<pleia2> I'm keeping the pages synced up for confirmed events that have details
<philipballew> ill do it this week, after I type a few more papers
<bkerensa> pleia2: http://g.co/maps/vdpp2 <-- I used to live there... I could walk to In N Out in like under 20 mins
<pleia2> bkerensa: ah, nice :)
<pleia2> I live right near Montgomery station, so I can pretty much get anywhere
<philipballew> cheeseburger animal style whole grilled onions with chiles please!
<pleia2> this is me goofing off on IRC instead of working again
 * pleia2 work for real
<bkerensa> pleia2: rent is to intense... :P was like 1200 a month and I had two room mates
<bkerensa> IMHO if you dont go to the Bay Area too much I highly suggest skipping In and Out and go to Tommy's Joynt on Van Ness
<bkerensa> they have been making amazing food there since the 50's
<philipballew> I have never been there bkerensa whats it like?
<bkerensa> http://www.tommysjoynt.com/menu.htm
<bkerensa> philipballew: its a HofbrÃ¤u which is like a German Deli/Restaurant/Pub
<bkerensa> so they make the freshest european dishes :) mostly of the german variety
<philipballew> uasually every friday I ride i ride to in in out. except this friday is Critical Mass friday.
<philipballew> I need a new burger place to check out
<bkerensa> and have beer from everywhere in Europe... the building survived like two of SF's earthquakes
<BigWhale> Oh, and if someone is into Photography, I'd like some pointers where are some shows where they sell photography equipment, I have a list that is a mile long or so... :)
<BigWhale> s/shows/shops/
<bkerensa> philipballew: they will make you a huge roast beef sandwich with Au Jus
<philipballew> BigWhale, where you coming from?
<bkerensa> BigWhale: Go to China Town for some stuff... Idk I swear their is a illcit black market for electronics there :P
<BigWhale> Europe, Slovenia
<akk> BigWhale: I've bought a bunch of used stuff from KEH and B&H ... better prices than I've seen in shows.
<bkerensa> ^
<philipballew> My "friend" bought a switchblade there in high school
<BigWhale> bkerensa, :)) I already considered ordering a bunch of stuff from Amazon to the hotel :))
<bkerensa> BigWhale: :D
<bkerensa> BigWhale: Slovenia is close to Bosnia yeah?
<BigWhale> bkerensa, 4-6 hour drive yes. Depends on which part of Bosnia you want to see
<pleia2> BigWhale: I met you at UDS in Budapest, right? (I am now getting them all mixed up :))
<BigWhale> pleia2, I think so yes. I was the one with pink netbook. ;>
<pleia2> yep, me too
<bkerensa> :D
<BigWhale> pink netbooks are awesome!
<philipballew> twins!
<pleia2> +1
<BigWhale> Budapest was quite nice. I had a nice little roadtrip
<pleia2> it was, did you make it to the hotel pool?
<pleia2> stunning
<BigWhale> and I stayed at the BigFish hostel ... :>
<pleia2> ah :)
<BigWhale> pleia2, nah, that hotel was way too pricey for me. :)) and I had to leave early because of work
 * pleia2 nods
<DonkeyHotei> wait, you're having a bonfire at ocean beach?
<pleia2> not really
<DonkeyHotei> because that would be AWESOME
<BigWhale> Anyway thanks for all the info so far. I'll drop by a few more times. I'll probably want a phone number or two from local people. I tend to get lost. Like, really lost. :>
<DonkeyHotei> if you can stand the smell of the sewage that washes ashore, that is
<BigWhale> DonkeyHotei, is that allowed?
<DonkeyHotei> BigWhale: idk, but people do it sometimes
<BigWhale> it is a beach then not much can really catch on fire, I guess...
<akk> Maybe we could find some Oakland streetcorner with a trash can and have a bonfire there.
<akk> :)
<BigWhale> :)))
<DonkeyHotei> yes, seawater doesn't burn
<DonkeyHotei> unless you spill petroleum in it
<BigWhale> you need a high temperature to ignite that.
<BigWhale> afaik
 * DonkeyHotei does not ignite the seawater
<bkerensa> DonkeyHotei: :D
<bkerensa> DonkeyHotei: You know that Burning Man originated as a Bonfire on Ocean Beach?
<DonkeyHotei> there is no beach in nevada
<bkerensa> akk: Our luck the Occupy movement will try to Occupy UDS
<bkerensa> Saying that sabdfl is the 1%
<bkerensa> ;p
<BigWhale> They are still occupying?
<akk> It's supposedly starting up again after a break for winter.
<bkerensa> akk: May 1st up here is supposedly what is the start of a bigger push then last time
<BigWhale> I just asked around and here in Slovenia they had a winter break too.
<BigWhale> Whiners. :>
<bkerensa> akk: They tried to re-occupy our parks up here the other night but failed but when it happened the Police issued a statement saying that come May 1st the parks will be retaken by force
<bkerensa> It took the police like three days struggle to get them out of the parks... they were bring tables and garbage cans as shields and surrounding and overwhelming the riot police
<bkerensa> They even climbed on top of the huge light booms and turn them off and turned off the generators
<DonkeyHotei> just as long as they don't occupy the toilet.
<dragon> No events in Cali? :O http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:DefectiveByDesign/Day_Against_DRM_2012#Events
<dax> they announced it a couple of days ago, which doesn't give a lot of time to organize an event, and it's targetted at college-age folks but takes place right before finals weeks
<dax> (at least, the announcement I saw was, that page isn't)
<akk> What's the current recommended java JRE package? I just discovered that the sun-java6-jre is left over from natty and isn't in oneiric.
<philipballew> akk, I think opendjk works the best for most thongs, but you can install sun yourself from the sun site I think
<dax> openjdk-6-jre
<dax> default-jre always points to the recommended JRE, btw
<akk> Ah, thanks. I wasn't seeing those -- they don't show up in aptitude search java.
<akk> Even though they have Java in their descriptions. Some day I'll find a decent apt searching tool, or write one.
<dax> aptitude search ~djava
<dax> or maybe Java, dunno if it's case-sensitive
<akk> Nope, neither of those finds it. What does ^d do?
<dax> ~d searches description, theoretically
<dax> works for me :|
<dax> (though I'm on Debian)
<akk> On oneiric, aptitude search ^djava | grep jre gives nothing at all.
<philipballew> usually the same
<dax> akk: ~, not ^
<philipballew> i can try 12.04
<akk> Ah! Yes, that finds it, though I have to quote it so it doesn't interpret ~ as a homedir.
<akk> Thanks.
<DonkeyHotei> the reason i don't like/use aptitude is that it doesn't share databases with other apt tools, like apt-get or synaptic
<akk> Unfortunately apt-cache search is even worse than aptitude search (they're both bad).
<akk> apt-cache search java gives 2057 lines, many of which don't have "java" in the name OR description.
<DonkeyHotei> i filter apt-cache search through less, usually
<akk> I don't want to page through 2057 lines any more than I want to use page up/down to read through them. :)
<DonkeyHotei> less has a search key
<akk> If I knew what to search for I'd be using | grep
<DonkeyHotei> i use the search key in less instead because i see context at a glance and can change search terms over and over
<zeidoz> grep would be the easier approach for me.
<zeidoz> *tinker* *tinker* *sew* *sew* *shoot* *shoot* *spy* *spy* okay, less is more elegant with -p, especially since you can use "n" to cycle through keywords
<DonkeyHotei> yep
<MarkDude> pleia2, can you email the UDS list and ask about the baseball game? I have a coupon for Thurs the 10th- for tickets for 4$
<bkerensa> MarkDude: there is a UDS mailing list? :s
<bkerensa> must be secret
 * MarkDude clicked- dont want updates on it
<pleia2> MarkDude: I'll include it in the email I send out this weekend
<pleia2> MarkDude: want people to email you, or email me and have me pass along?
<MarkDude> They can email me
<MarkDude> Markdude@fedoraproject.org ;)
<MarkDude> Gates open 1.5 hours before actual game starts
<MarkDude> Also Veggie hotdogs are available
<pleia2> ok :)
 * MarkDude is stoked about going - this should be fun - and a great learning opportunity
<pleia2> MarkDude: when do they need to contact you by?
<pleia2> and will you escort people from the hotel, or should they take BART themselves?
<bkerensa> pleia2: also Cloudflare's CEO said they can host some Ubuntu folk if anyone wants to see their offices and chat about nginx, cloud and Ubuntu :)
<MarkDude> The monday of UDS
<MarkDude> I can get them up until Tuesday I think
<MarkDude> or Wed
<MarkDude> So we can get up to 16 people
<MarkDude> 25 is group discount
<MarkDude> I plan on getting 8 of them for sure- beforehand
<MarkDude> and can get 8 more if needed
<MarkDude> I plan on being at UDS that day
<MarkDude> So I can escort
<MarkDude> :)
<pleia2> ok cool
<pleia2> sessions wrap up at 6PM, should I tell them to meet you in the lobby at 6:15 and "get there yourself" otherwise?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-04-25
<MarkDude> Sure
<MarkDude> I can make sure to have directions written before then
<MarkDude> Oh, booze is expensive there
<MarkDude> So sneaking some in is advised
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UDS-Q#Oakland_A.27s_Baseball_Game_.28Thursday.29
<bkerensa> MarkDude: Oh
<bkerensa> MarkDude: How far is the Coliseum?
<MarkDude> a few stops
<MarkDude> Also within easy walking distance of crack, and medicinal  options
<pleia2> lol
<MarkDude> Good loud music shows also
 * MarkDude hopes at least one person early can go to the jono loud music show
<bkerensa> MarkDude: Not so much interested in the crack or medicinal options... Some good Sushi perhaps :D
 * erichammond wakes up.  Good sushi at UDS?!
 * MarkDude will ask Courtney, she is the sushi expert out that way
<pleia2> bkerensa: might want to come across the bay for it ;)
<erichammond> I've never really seen San Francisco, so the tour sounds great to me.  I'm also up for nice dinners including sushi.  I'll be there the evenings of Wed, Thu, Fri.
<bkerensa> pleia2: yeah sushi in the castro is usually pretty tasty
<pleia2> I had sushi for lunch, and sushi on sunday night for dinner
<pleia2> I probably have all the mercury
<pleia2> but is so tastey :d
<pleia2> mmm heavy metals
<erichammond> LA Weekly just ranked my favorite sushi restaurant as the second best in Los Angeles: http://www.laweekly.com/2012-04-19/eat-drink/sushi-los-angeles-top-10/
<erichammond> Their choice for first place will cost you about $400.
<bkerensa> Best Sushi in SF imho: http://www.sanfranciscodays.com/photos/large/osaka-sushi.jpg
<bkerensa> Best Burrito: Taqueria Cancun
<bkerensa> they closed the best tostada place :(
<akk> Ooh -- going through dpkg -L unity*, I found /usr/share/gconf/defaults/10_unity-2d
<akk> whose first line is: /desktop/unity-2d/launcher/favorites [ubiquity-gtkui.desktop,nautilus-home.desktop,firefox.desktop,libreoffice-writer.desktop,libreoffice-calc.desktop,libreoffice-impress.desktop,ubuntu-software-center.desktop,ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk.desktop]
<DonkeyHotei> 11.10, or 12.04?
<akk> that might be a launcher list right here
<akk> 11.10, though I could switch to 12.04 if that would make it easier.
<DonkeyHotei> no, i'm on 11.10
<akk> I thought the live image used regular unity, not unity2d ... but the unity package doesn't include an equivalent looking defaults file.
 * akk wonders what /usr/lib/unity/migrate_favorites.py does ... would help if it had some comments or something
<akk> Googling for it reveals that mostly what it does is crash. :)
<Guest83831> Hi all, We just got a HP pavilion dv7 without an OS and plan to install ubuntu..... (appluse here)....
<Guest83831> The intent is to build a vector design box using vector works and photoshop
<DonkeyHotei> photoshop?
<DonkeyHotei> they say CS4 works under WINE
<akk> Photoshop seems like an odd choice either for linux or for vector design.
<Guest83831> Yeah, well my wife uses it alot.
<Guest83831> Yeah, I know, but she does landscape design and wants to do 3d renderings
<DonkeyHotei> it's not meant for 3d
<DonkeyHotei> i think the industry standard is maya
<DonkeyHotei> but akk would know much better than me
<DonkeyHotei> akk has written books about GIMP
<akk> Blender is what most people seem to use on Linux, for 3D modeling.
<akk> And inkscape for vector art, and gimp for raster.
<Guest83831>  Ive tried, she won't take the time to learn Gimp.
<DonkeyHotei> gimp won't do 3d, either
<akk> Neither will photoshop, afaik.
<DonkeyHotei> i said that
<akk> Right.
<akk> Maybe she's just doing things like taking a photo and using perspective transform and adding drop shadows, making things look a little 3d.
<akk> Anyway, yeah, wine. Never tried running photoshop but it might work.
<Guest83831>  I know there are a lot of great vector and CAD programs already for the *nix platforms.... But some women.... I mean people can be stubborn, as I'm sure you all know.
<DonkeyHotei> if all she knows is photoshop, she'd have to learn SOMETHING new for 3d renderings, regardless
<DonkeyHotei> meh, akk is a woman too
<akk> She might not be doing real 3d modeling, just a little perspective transform.
<DonkeyHotei> as for photoshop under wine, afaik, cs2 works, cs3 doesn't, cs4 works
<Guest83831> Anyway, I'm just wondering what the best version would be for this laptop.... I see there is another one comming out in two days.
<akk> I haven't heard a lot of feedback about how stable 12.04 is ... but it's a long term release, which usually makes it a good bet.
<akk> If I were installing a new ubuntu now I'd be pretty tempted to go that route.
<dax> ditto, after waiting a week or three for the servers to stop being swamped and to get day 1 updates out of the way
<akk> (having said that, here I am trying to make live ISOs for a class and using 11.10, so maybe I'm fibbing)
<akk> But a difference is, my students won't be doing much with it and will only be using it for 1 day, while in your case you want something that'll continue to work well for a long time.
<Guest83831> Also, I'm a few years out of the *nix scene, is running in chroot still a good security mesure and does it effect any Wine run programs?
<akk> I never do chroot except for extremely specialized purposes. I'm not sure what it would get you, really.
<MarkDude> CS6 is not likely to work under wine
<Guest83831> I'm just thinking tiered security.....
<Guest83831> So cs4 is the best set then?
<MarkDude> Having used both GIMP and CS5, they dont really compare if you are doing INTENSIVE editing
<akk> Guest83831: If you set up a chroot that she works in all the time, and she somehow destroys the system inside the chroot ... are you any better off than if she'd destroyed the real system?
<akk> Either way, you have to reinstall stuff, seems like.
<akk> (but I'm not really up on chroot-for-security theory, so I might be missing something)
<MarkDude> Wine likes having access to some windows libraries? If Im not mistaken
<Guest83831> I've been out for a while but chroot was very common security feature when I was building *nix boxes
<Guest83831> I'll have to start readding up on the latest
<Guest83831> Anyone know of any LUGS near Ventura?
<akk> There's one around Camarillo.
<Guest83831> Probably one or two in SantaBarbara too, but I'm in Ojai  :(
<akk> And google says this: http://www.vclug.org/
<Guest83831> Thanks, missed that in my search
<akk> I searched for linux user group ventura OR "santa barbara"
<akk> Don't see anything for Ojai specifically, though.
<Guest83831> Nah, Ojai's small
<akk> Yeah. But progressive, so it didn't seem impossible.
<akk> http://www.cipcug.org/ (channel islands) is the camarillo group.
<Guest83831> The boss just told me there's a 30 return on the laptop so I'll have to drop in an older version to test first
<Guest83831>  UCUCI good school
 * akk spent a happy summer in Ojai once
<Guest83831> any no's on 11.10 with Wine and RAID 1 in a laptop?
<Guest83831> I'm headding that way to atleast test the box for the warranty
<Guest83831> Yeah, it's a great place to live, I just miss my ol lug comraderie
<Guest83831> I'm headding that way to atleast test the box for the warranty.
<Guest83831> Thx
<izdubar> is there a facebook event for the release party at the thirsty bear?
<pleia2> MarkDude: no, we haven't done that in a while (no one to maintain it)
<pleia2> just: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/1615/detail/
 * MarkDude just got talked into going to a metal show in Oakland that night
<akk> What's the easiest way to make a bootable USB stick with persistence? (Not including usb-cd-creator, it's never worked for me.)
<akk> I know casper looks for a partition named casper-rw, but if I make partitions and copy the iso to the first partition, the stick isn't bootable.
<pleia2> I use usb-creator-gtk or UNetbootin
<pleia2> depends on the system which works better
<akk> unetbootin can do persistence now? It couldn't the last time I tried it.
<pleia2> hm, maybe not
<pleia2> http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/diskimg/readme.txt
<pleia2> apparently it's an option
<pleia2> (those directions aren't required anymore, but that's the reference I found to it being an option :))
<akk> What's all this D:\syslinux.cfg stuff in that page? Is that a Windows version of unetbootin?
<akk> The one on oneiric doesn't seem to have a persistence option.
<akk> oh, wait, maybe it does
<akk> It seems to want to write to /dev/sdf2 rather than /dev/sdf
<dax> I think I got unetbootin to work a grand total of one time.
<akk> I got it to work once, but without persistence.
<akk> Let's see what it does this time ...
<akk> It's better than the zero successes I've managed with usb-creator-gtk.
<dax> usb-creator-gtk's worked fine for me the last few releases, though I stopped caring once they started being dd-able (which I realize is useless for your scenario)
<akk> I was hoping dd would work, but no one seems to know how to couple it with persistence.
<akk> IME. usb-creator-gtk works if the machine where you're running it is exactly the same (same desktop as well as distro/release) as what you're creating.
<dax> can't do dd with persistance, as far as I know, hence my side-note
<akk> That LiveCDCustomization page on help.ubuntu.com, sadly, didn't give me a bootable ISO. It's several years old and I guess some of the steps are out of date.
<akk> unetbootin is impressively slow. I hope, if it succeeds, I'll be able to copy the stick it creates, since I need 10-11 of these.
<akk> If you dd a usb stick (/dev/sdX, not /dev/sdX1) to another one, do you get a copy of all the partitions? I suppose that's too much to hope for?
<dax> yes
<dax> afaik, as long as target >= source size-wise, that should work fine
 * akk gives up on this run of unetbootin -- been running for about 45 minutes, and about 20 minutes since it last woke up to redraw thewindow
<akk> It looks like it was putting everything on /dev/sdf2 and running out of room, instead of using the whole stick.
<akk> Also it's unkillable, even with -9
<akk> Looks like it doesn't work anyway, even if it finishes: http://askubuntu.com/questions/123146/unable-to-get-persistence-on-usb-with-ubuntu-11-10-created-with-unetbootin
<philipballew_> pleia2, for applying to membership bord, do i apply to the overall bord, or just apply for my world timeslot?
<philipballew_> also, how much would it cost for me to just buy my way in? :)
<pleia2> philipballew_: you identify which timeslot you're applying for in the application email
<philipballew_> okay, thank you. I was unsure about that
<greg-g> dangit, I was going to get some money out of him
<pleia2> lol
<greg-g> I mean, this channel isn't logged, right?
 * pleia2 changes the number of seats to fill from 10 to 11 for questionable integrity of one of the non-expiring members
<pleia2> ;)
<Darkwing> LOL
<greg-g> haha
<greg-g> hey, my integrity is intact. it was a fair deal out in the open ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<Darkwing> It's just a funding donation for the work done :D
<philipballew> greg-g, I m back!
<greg-g> oh, hi there philipballew
<philipballew> when refuring to money I will be selling my uds room
<greg-g> I heard you have a problem that I might be able to solve with some mutual aid?
<philipballew> 10 gets you in the bed
<greg-g> ;)
<philipballew> 20 gets you in the bed and me on the floor
<greg-g> haha, don't tempt me
<philipballew> 100 gets me out of the room completely
<philipballew> you gonna be there greg-g ?
<pleia2> wow, reading the backscroll there is very important
<greg-g> I will be for some of the evening stuff. I don't think I can get off work much that week
<philipballew> sorry pleia2
<greg-g> pleia2: hahahahahaha
<greg-g> it went from bribery to prostitution
<pleia2> lol
<greg-g> only wholesome topics here
<philipballew> I have never formally introduced myself greg-g Ill have to shake your hand in 2 weeks.
<philipballew> Your new to ca right?
<greg-g> philipballew: indeed. holy crap, 2 weeks!
<greg-g> yeah, just moved in Sept.
<greg-g> from Ann Arbor, MI
<philipballew> So you know kevin?
<philipballew> kdub?
<Darkwing> So, interesting announcement...
<Darkwing> This is my last year in California.
<philipballew> where you movin to?
<pleia2> are you moving to michigan?
<Darkwing> About 2 hours north of Indianapolis in Indiana
<philipballew> Detroit is nice this time of year...
<greg-g> philipballew: yeah, I know kdub :)
<pleia2> Darkwing: congrats, work?
<Darkwing> School.
<Darkwing> Indiana Institute of Tech
<pleia2> ah, nice!
<philipballew> nice!
<Darkwing> Plus, with the divorce, it will be a good place to reboot.
<greg-g> careful in that part of the country. They call it the armpit of america
<Darkwing> I have some family in that area and I spent my younger years there.
<philipballew> yeah greg-g he just started a new job with canonical
<greg-g> mostly b/c of the smell of the industrial area :)
<philipballew> Wear deodorant
<Darkwing> from about 4 to 15 I lived in northern Indiana.
<greg-g> philipballew: oh, I didn't know! cool
<pleia2> Darkwing: cool, so not as random as it sounds :)
<Darkwing> greg-g: LOL I lived outside of Shipshewana in Indiana when I was growing up.
<Darkwing> Not really no :D
<pleia2> california is my favorite place
<Darkwing> Born in Roseville, CA, grew up in Indiana and at 15 moved to Southern California.
 * philipballew was born in the same hospital as Darkwing 
<Darkwing> :D
<pleia2> secretly, I was born in Georgia
<Darkwing> Really?
<pleia2> yep
<Darkwing> Cool :D Interesting how much to get to know about past :D
 * pleia2 nomad
<pleia2> not that I particularly like moving, I actually quite like being settled, I'm just not good at it
<Darkwing> I did Military for almost 8 years... Moving is a way of life LOL
<pleia2> yeah, I don't have such an excuse
<pleia2> I'll call it genetic, I've got immediate family scattered all over country (some in other countries)
<pleia2> I didn't realize how weird it was until I was having dinner with my fiance's family and I had "well my family in $foo..." stories all over the place and they were all "do you have family everywhere?"
<pleia2> yes, yes I do
<Darkwing> LOL
<akk> Are there lightning talks at UDS?
<dax> looks like UDS-P had them
<pleia2> akk: yep, on friday during the 1 hour spot after lunch (used for plenary talks other days): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-Q/Plenaries#Lightning_Talks
<akk> yay, will have to think about topics
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-04-26
<philipballew> all the release hype doesnât really effect me when I upgraded in later February. Much nicer
<MarkDude> philipballew, I agree, I always wait to upgrade ANY Distro at least a month- if not two
<philipballew> MarkDude, anything to avoid the upgrade servers coming to a halt
<MarkDude> true
<philipballew> Can you say all nighter, because I can!
<MarkDude> no doubt
<philipballew> Only 4 more papers to type.
<philipballew> tonight paper is on the history of catholic tradition...
<philipballew> fun I know...
<pleia2> ah, release day :)
<pleia2> I should make someone else run the party, I was up at 6AM doing release stuff for xubuntu (and I was late, that was an hour after the actual release)
<pleia2> now work, dr appointment and release party, no sleepies time!
<dax> I was up until the early hours of the morning being social in real life instead of watching the Ubuntu release process. I'm starting to worry I am no longer a geek.
<pleia2> hah :)
<pleia2> this is only the second release where I've been directly involved, first where I'm website and marketing lead for xubuntu
<pleia2> so it seems my geekery is getting worse ;)
<philipballew_> pleia2, Have fun at the party
<philipballew_> drink to Ubuntu!
<pleia2> thanks :)
 * MarkDude thinks your geekery is getting *better* pleia2 
<akk> Heh, agreed.
<MarkDude> dragon, ping
<bkerensa> nobody is seeding xubuntu amd64 iso
<bkerensa> >.<
<pleia2> it came out late, but I know a bunch of people are seeding it now
<pleia2> maybe try to restart it?
 * philipballew_ school blocks torrents
<philipballew_> actually, no. They block the starting of torrents
<bkerensa> pleia2: http://imgur.com/FsRA3
<pleia2> bkerensa: I see 6, or am I reading it wrong?
<bkerensa> pleia2: it just came up :D I was just showing you my epic seeding
<pleia2> oh :)
 * bkerensa also deploy three Linodes and a AWS instance to see all the ISO's
<bkerensa> ;p
<bkerensa> seed*
<pleia2> thanks!
<itnet7> hey there everyone
<itnet7> Happy Release Day!
<philipballew_> itnet7, its a good day i think
<itnet7> philipballew_: definitely!
<philipballew_> its Thursday!!!
<dragon> MarkDude: pong
<bkerensa> MarkDude: with 12.04 release now is a better time then ever to come back and embrace your circle of friends and leave the hat behind :D
<dragon> bkerensa: How about a circle of friends wearing hats? :P
<bkerensa> ;p
<bkerensa> only if they are tan with a orange ubuntu logo on them :D
<dragon> Ubuntu logo is a bit too much to ask for!
<dragon> Orange tan and blue paint would make a good contrast.
<dragon> What's a good list of torrents to seed? I'm leaning towards desktop amd64 plain Ubuntu.
<dragon> But that's barely a list.
<bkerensa> all of them?
<bkerensa> :D
<dragon> That's too much, and won't help much given my limited 1MiB/s upstream bandwidth.
<dragon> I'd rather seed three or four so each could get at least 250KiB/s
 * MarkDude likes the power of the Dark Side of the Force
<MarkDude> It pays better, we have awesome parties, not to mention...... the COOKIES :D
<bkerensa> MarkDude: I will admit Fedora does in some cases have more resources for their communities :D
<MarkDude> Dont forget the low earth orbiting laser
<MarkDude> The secret handshake helps with much ..... ;)
<MarkDude> We sorta lack on that whole *local big community thing* tho
<philipballew_> MarkDude how far into using fedora do you have to be until they give you a tour of the Death Star?
<MarkDude> Well - its only a rumor
<MarkDude> But you have to be an RH employee
<MarkDude> Its not that bad- its been pretty confirmed that Canonical folks have access to jetpacks
<MarkDude> thats pretty cool
<MarkDude> And some get to visit Ubuntu island
<philipballew_> well their boss is kinda a space cadet
<MarkDude> where Mark S has a desk with a chair for people to sit in... that drops to a shark tank
<MarkDude> Mark S will have a space station soon, I heard it is old Russian stuff, so its all 8 bit computing tho
<philipballew_> I wonder if they have any job openings for "shark tank door openers"
<pleia2> that's secretly why the SpaceX booth was next to the Ubuntu booth at SCALE
<itnet7> lol
<philipballew_> I gave them my card and said "I want to be a astronaut"
<philipballew_> Ive seen Apollo 13, so I pretty much know how to handle myself up there...
<bkerensa> come on people suck up some bandwidth... I'm seeding with a combined bandwidth availability over 400MBps
<bkerensa> get any flavor you want :D
<philipballew_> bkerensa, if only my school disnt block torrents
<philipballew_> *didnt
<zeidoz> philipballew_: have you read ender's game?
<philipballew_> zeidoz, no, whats it?
<zeidoz> philipballew_: it's about teenage astronauts, sort of
<zeidoz> they're making it into a movie i think
<philipballew_> I saw the magic school bus, so Ive seen kids in space.
<zeidoz> philipballew_: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/
<zeidoz> they didn't play war games on the school bus
<zeidoz> it's a good novel, not as good as mine of course ^_^
<MarkDude> Hope on the magic school bus.....
<philipballew_> MarkDude, I still think that show was about a teacher getting her and her kids high
<MarkDude> I thought that was the cliff's notes version
<MarkDude> You mean it wasnt?
<philipballew_> I wonder if that was the thought behind the magic school bus in the first place
<MarkDude> It was most likely the idea behind Sesame Street
<MarkDude> Have you seen any of the earliest episodes?
<philipballew_> indeed. Its ... different
<philipballew_> lots of shows have subliminal messages many people would dislike.
<philipballew_> like some people say spongebob
<zeidoz> high = lucid dreaming
<zeidoz> i don't recall any reefer being smoked on magic school bus, or dream journals being kept
<philipballew_> zeidoz, im to much used to this societies slang
<zeidoz> philipballew_: eye'm untoo much notused to this society's sling
<zeidoz> i'm going to take a spacenapâ¢, because NASA told me to
<philipballew_> nasas dead
<philipballew_> bkerensa, your exudes back to ubuntu post made me laugh.
<bkerensa> philipballew: I need to make a part to of FOSS Yeaaaah! about how they all came back when 12.04 arrived
<bkerensa> :D
<philipballew_> they wayward sons and daughters have returned
<philipballew_> I truly dont understand why people dont just install a different ui if they dislike unity.....
<akk> Agreed, philipballew_
<philipballew_> maybe they do not know how, or think it s to complicated.
<philipballew_> but imo its easier to apt-get then reinstall your whole os
<philipballew_> bkerensa, not that i have a problem with linux mint. Im just not a "bandwagon" type person
<akk> OTOH, if someone's really a fan of the gnome2 interface (as opposed to just hating unity), they actually do have to switch from ubuntu.
<bkerensa> philipballew: because they are generally so green that they do not realize they can install and DE they want
<akk> Even on other distros they'll have to change desktops eventually ... but they'll probably get several years on some distros.
<bkerensa> akk: they can use gnome-session-fallback  (classic) or Gnome3 on Ubuntu just fine... we have booth actively in the repos
<philipballew_> debian 7 is gnome 3
<philipballew_> iirc
<akk> bkerensa: They're pretty different, from what I hear.
<philipballew_> you can make lxde look like gnome 2
<philipballew_> personally I really dont care what ui i use as long as i can quickly accsess my Internet browser terminal and music player
<bkerensa> akk: session-fallback is pretty much identical to the classic that has shipped in every version prior to 11.10
<bkerensa> :)
<greg-g> philipballew_: well, for one thing, gnome-shell is a second class citizen on Ubuntu, and at least in 11.10 (haven't jumped to the next version yet, for the first time in years) gnome-shell was broken in a few places because of Unity hacks to gnome
<greg-g> philipballew_: re why people don't just install another DE
<bkerensa> the very small differences are not really noticeable to most users
<greg-g> by broken I mean regressions introduced versus a Debian/upstream version of gnome
<philipballew_> you could install a cli and just build up greg-g , but not everyone knows you can I think...
<philipballew_> and replace a few packages
<akk> Though there are boot problems if you install a commandline system ... unfixed bug because they figure nobody important does that.
<akk> But once you know the tricks, it's a nice way to go.
<philipballew_> but I do it? Do I not matter :)
<philipballew_> yeah, cli systems are nicer because you have more control
<philipballew_> then the default image
<greg-g> philipballew_: uhhh, what about a cli and build up? that was kind of a non sequitor
<greg-g> we were talking about installing a non default DE
<akk> greg-g: It's a good way to go if you aren't going to use the default DE, so you don't have to uninstall all that stuff.
<greg-g> akk: not if the stuff that gnome-shell depends on were modified to work better with Unity that breaks gnome-shell
<greg-g> so, no matter where I start, the packages in Ubuntu are buggy because of Unity
<greg-g> that all I'm saying :)
<greg-g> s/that/that's/
<akk> greg-g: I don't think philipballew_'s suggestion of starting from the commandline was meant as a fix for that.
<akk> Just a good way of setting up an ubuntu system that's based on another DE.
<philipballew_> yes, i ment for a different ui. But if certain packages have bugs you could find those packages and recompile them maybe for yourself...
<greg-g> right, just was a ping to me not replying to my comment ;)
<philipballew_> but nobody does that
<greg-g> philipballew_: right.. which, as you said above "why don't they just install another DE" doesn't work on Ubuntu
<philipballew_> I agree
<akk> I'm surprised nobody has made a PPA of a classic gnome2 desktop complete with whatever libraries it needs.
<akk> For the amount of griping I hear, there doesn't seem to be much workarounding.
<philipballew_> akk, complaining but doing nothing to fix it maybe?
<greg-g> right, because I can go "fix" those bugs Unity introduced into gnome-shell.... that won't happen in Ubuntu because those changes were made for a reason
<greg-g> so I can only complain and not fix it. it's my only option as dictated by Unity
<philipballew_> makes sence. I wonder if someone can get a ppa going wwith those packages that mess up gnome-shell
<greg-g> at that point, you're just undoing what they did in Ubuntu to mess up the Debian packages, why not just use Debian?
<greg-g> (which is what I decided to do on my home machine)
<akk> greg-g: But you can fix it. It just means maintaining your own copy of those libraries.
<dax> How is GNOME-shell on Debian testing these days? I haven't used it in a few months.
<greg-g> great :)
<greg-g> akk: which, at that point, I'm just mirroring whats in Debian.. so.... ;)
<philipballew_> akk, good point. its not hard for us here to maintain our own libraries. greg-g it is often not worth the time when you have other things that you feel are more important.
<philipballew_> sooner or later I might replace all sources are run my own mirror if I have the time
<philipballew_> for my server at least maybe
 * philipballew_ is off to Chemistry class.
<akk> greg-g: Sure, nothing wrong with running Debian if it meets your needs better. But you may find other things that work less well there.
 * akk has Debian on one machine, Ubuntu on another ... they have different strengths
<greg-g> akk: not thus far :) The only thing is I do get a nice text scrolling boot sequence :)
<akk> greg-g: You can get that anywhere, just remove the "splash" option from your bootloader (grub or whatever).
<greg-g> I actually wonder why Debian hasn't pulled in some of the flickerless boot optimizations Ubuntu has done
<akk> ugh, Ubuntu's boot process is pretty messed up for lightweight/commandline systems ... I hope Debian doesn't pull in much of it.
<akk> That's one of the things I like about Debian.
<greg-g> ahh, see, that's good to know
<kdub> is "city center' oakland the  bad part of oakland
<kdub> (eg, where UDS is)
<bkerensa> kdub: imho all of Oakland is bad but downtown has the lowest crime
<kdub> oh, so its the /safest/ part :)
<bkerensa> kdub: East Oakland is the worst part
<pleia2> Oakland sprawls a fair amount, there are some decent suburban areas
<bkerensa> there are neighborhoods in East Oakland that the Police will not go to without a medium deployment of officers
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> Just whatever you do don't go to the Twomps
<bkerensa> pleia2: yeah the borders with berkeley are not so bad
<kdub> and the 'bart' goes from the OAK airport to the downtown part?
<bkerensa> kdub: yes
<kdub> wahoo :)
<bkerensa> Im not sure how close to the Marriott though
<bkerensa> but you will be fine
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> Only people looking for trouble are going to find it in most cases
<pleia2> 12 st station is right next to the hotel
<pleia2> very easy :)
<bkerensa> yeah kdub you can get off ^ there and walk 456ft
<bkerensa> :D
<pleia2> kdub: congrats on the new gig
 * bkerensa had no idea thats how close it was..... I never took Bart to Oakland... Just Berkeley mostly ;p
<kdub> :) thanks
<pleia2> (philipballew told us)
<bkerensa> kdub: you got a new job cool :D
<akk> I'm trying to figure out how to get to BART in the first place ... the web is telling me parking at Fremont BART isn't likely on weekday mornings.
<bkerensa> akk: where are you travelling from?
<akk> bkerensa: San Jose.
<bkerensa> By car?
<akk> bkerensa: Google maps says using buses would take about an hour and a half (and 2 buses), so car looks like the only reasonable option.
<bkerensa> akk: You could take Caltrain to SF then Bart across the bay?
<akk> Hour and a half just to get to the Fremont BART station, I mean, not counting the half-hour to from there to Oakland.
<pleia2> bkerensa: caltrain is slow :(
<bkerensa> yeah
<bkerensa> hmm
<pleia2> I'd say change at millbrae if you take that route though
<kdub> pleia2: figured the news would work its way around  :P
<kdub> i can't even take the train from socal, i'd have to take a bus in bakersfield for like half the trip
<bkerensa> Or perhaps go to San Leandro park and then Bart
<bkerensa> akk ^
<akk> Looks like that route's pretty slow too -- about 40 min by caltrain then 40 min on bart.
<bkerensa> Drive to San Leandro I meant
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> then park and take Bart
<bkerensa> :D
<akk> bkerensa: Is there always open parking at San Leandro?
<akk> That's the sort of thing I've been trying to figure out -- which BART stations I could park at.
<bkerensa> akk: Not always but you can reserve parking at Bart online
<akk> oh, interesting
<bkerensa> yeah I think its called a reserved parking permit or something
<bkerensa> means you get a guaranteed spot
<akk> That would help -- what worries me is ending up spending 2 hours driving from bart station to bart station.
<bkerensa> no doubt
<bkerensa> imho (i am not a driver much... I car-share) if I owned a car I would try to park at Fremont/Ashby/San Leandro
<akk> Cool, thanks, I'll look into reserving.
<bkerensa> akk: https://www.parkingcarma.com/portals/bart/bartreservations.aspx
<akk> Cool, thanks!
<akk> (Except for the "we have encountered an error" when I try to go through the screens, sigh)
<bkerensa> asp
<bkerensa> >.<
<akk> Looks like they require google-analytics javascript or the pages don't work at all.
<bkerensa> =/
<akk> Only the second time I've seen that (first time was on coursera and they've since fixed it).
<bkerensa> oh west oakland bart has a garagew
<bkerensa> akk: works for me... I got all the way to billing
<akk> Driving to Oakland to take BART to Oakland seems a little strange, though.
<bkerensa> :D
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-04-27
<jyo_> I'll be a bit late but I'll see you guys tonight at the thing.
<philipballew> kdub, the train to there is a joke. Its only possible if you take the train along the cost, but thats like 12 hours.
<Faqtotum> i went to thirstybear, no one was there, and they have no reservation
<Faqtotum> since no one seems to be on now, i'll try phoning grantbow
<Faqtotum> ok, found pleia2 in here
<Faqtotum> hi
<akk> Darn, the alternate installer doesn't work when dd-ed onto a USB stick.
<pleia2> ive never had good luck w/ alt and usb sticks
<Faqtotum> 12 people here now
<Faqtotum> 5 standing, 7 sitting
<akk> Weird -- in the pangolin alt installer, it gives you a choice to enable partners and extras repos
<akk> but no choice to enable regular main ubuntu software (from anything but security.ubuntu.com)
<Faqtotum> lol
 * Darkwing peers in
<Darkwing> Anyone have an expresscard ieee that they would be willing to part with at a good price or, trade for a few 2.5" Laptop drives including a 32GB SSD?
<Darkwing> Ubuntu 12.10 Quantal Quetzal.
<Faqtotum> quantal is a word?
<Darkwing> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quantal
<Faqtotum> meh
<bkerensa> pleia2: How would you like 40 11.04 CD's and maybe 20-30 11.10's?
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> Since we don't get CD's I am recycling the covers from old versions I have and repurposing :D
<philipballew_> my schools dhcp servers seem to cut me off every so often and cant reconnect easily.
<philipballew_> would that be a reason why my internet connection cuts off every hour or so
<bkerensa> uhh I wrote a Juju charm in 22 minutes :P
 * MarkDude saw a Motley crue cover band tonight, all women - thye are called Cruella
<DonkeyHotei> hide the dalmatians
<DonkeyHotei> to register for uds, do i put "non-sponsored" for "capacity" or what?
<bkerensa> DonkeyHotei: yeah I think so
<DonkeyHotei> "group/company representing" ?
<DonkeyHotei> what there?
<DonkeyHotei> bkerensa: ^
<bkerensa> Mmm
<bkerensa> You are representing Ubuntu
<bkerensa> unless you are attending for some other reason
<bkerensa> ;p
<bkerensa> DonkeyHotei: Do you contribute to any specific area of the community?
<DonkeyHotei> odd that that's still "non-sponsored"
<DonkeyHotei> and what do i put for travel info? it's non-optional
<MarkDude> DonkeyHotei, you represent levity
<MarkDude> Put today as arrival day
<MarkDude> and put some day in the future as leaving, maybe a day after the Mayan calendar ends
<DonkeyHotei> i put the 7th
 * MarkDude tried to put both local AND remote attending
<MarkDude> Would not let me
<DonkeyHotei> you're local
 * MarkDude reserves the right to act remote while there
<dax> So I just found out I'm going to be in the Bay Area the 3rd to the 8th.
<philipballew> late night for people talking here
 * bkerensa prints tickets
<DonkeyHotei> i made a typo untarring a tarball on oneiric:
<DonkeyHotei> No command 'tax' found, did you mean:
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'ttx' from package 'fonttools' (universe)
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'fax' from package 'efax' (universe)
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'tex' from package 'texlive-binaries' (main)
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'tx' from package 'transifex-client' (universe)
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'vax' from package 'simh' (universe)
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'tar' from package 'tar' (main)
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'tac' from package 'coreutils' (main)
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'rax' from package 'radare-common' (universe)
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'pax' from package 'pax' (main)
<DonkeyHotei>  Command 'stax' from package 'stax' (universe)
<DonkeyHotei> tax: command not found
<pleia2> bkerensa: oh no, I make sure I don't have left overs of CDs from old releases at the end of a cycle, I have no space for them :)
<DonkeyHotei> dax: someone mentioned last night that you're at sac state now, so why didn't i see you at the ubuntu hour that philipballew used to run?
<philipballew_> Whats a good method for making a direct image of my laptop them putting that image on all my other omputers?
<philipballew_> is there a simple way to do it?
<philipballew_> i thought about clonezilla, but was unsure if that the best?
<akk> cp -ax will usually work: the first parts of http://shallowsky.com/blog/linux/install/upgrading-without-risk.html
<akk> It does require some manual steps. If you can access your root filesystem while it's unmounted (while you're not actually running), that's safer.
<philipballew_> that seems script-able
<philipballew_> maybe
 * philipballew_ thanks akk 
<akk> Once you have one copy that's not mounted and that uses the right root device, like /dev/sda2 or whatever, doing more copies is super easy.
<philipballew_> I was thinking of throwing the image onto my server and try to send it from there maybe. Not sure.
<akk> You could have a script to fix things like the hostname, and disk UUIDs if you prefer to use those instead of /dev/sdNN
<philipballew_> So many ideas
<akk> I'm in the process of making a bunch of little pangolins on USB sticks that I can use for a class ... will probably use cp -ax or rsync -a for them once I get one up and working.
<philipballew_> I was thinking of giving the images I make to my work, There trying to use ubuntu to send to people in South Africa
<philipballew_> what class are you taking?
<DonkeyHotei> sending ubuntu to south africa, how ironic...
<philipballew_> DonkeyHotei, thats what I thought... but hey, never hurts
<akk> philipballew_: Teaching an arduino class. The arduino software turns out to be difficult to install on windows, so I'm hoping I can boot their lab machines into ubuntu.
<DonkeyHotei> there used to be a ppa for it
<DonkeyHotei> it went unmaintained
<akk> For arduino? I think there's a version in the repos, but it's old.
<akk> But it's easy to run the tarball on ubuntu. Not so easy on windows.
<philipballew_> I need to buy a new arduino. I was running a picaxe but that was not meeting my needs
<DonkeyHotei> i know it's easy to run the tarball, but a maintained ppa for auto updates was nice
<philipballew_> ppa's are nice untill you either want to remove them or update ubuntu and have the system remove the ppa and you have to re enable it.
<DonkeyHotei> worth it
<akk> Ugh, kernel panic trying to boot off the usb stick.
<philipballew_> have you tried turning it on off and on again?
<akk> yeah
<akk> Might be an initrd problem -- the initrd was generated on a different machine from the target machine.
<akk> I'm not sure how to get a generic initrd that works everywhere ... I tried the one I made on this machine, where I said yes, include all drivers not just from this machine.
<akk> Hmm, maybe this usb stick is bad.
<akk> When I try to log in to ubuntu forums using my launchpad id, I get a firefox warning about a suspicious cross-site scripting attempt.
<akk> How do I whitelist it? I tried going to Options and adding ^https://login.launchpad.net/+openid (the url that showed up in the console) but that didn't make it happy.
<akk> Nobody uses ubuntu forums with firefox, I guess? Or you have to use a separate login for forums, can't use launchpad?
<philipballew_> akk, I dont think uf is hooked up with the single sigh on yet. Maybe I am wrong, but I think thats a feature coming soon.
<akk> If so, they should get rid of the link that says "Sign in using your Launchpad ID".
<akk> In the upper right just under the search box.
<philipballew_> akk, I think there currently or soon will redoo the entire interface to look more like ubuntu 10.04 plus and not the brown theme before 10.04. or at least that what i herd. Have you tried askubuntu? I hear its better these days.
<philipballew_> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/27/nyregion/at-92-movie-bootlegger-is-soldiers-hero.html?_r=2
<philipballew_> Old people are awesome!
<philipballew_> pleia2, I want to let you know I was going to do post meeting logs tonight/early morning stuurday. so dont think I forgot
<philipballew_> this is a very hard week so I have not been able to get to it. I apologize
<bkerensa> pleia2: Was the California release party fun? Lots of people?
<bkerensa> I saw a Pangolin partying
<DonkeyHotei> we had a plastic pangolin
<DonkeyHotei> 15-ish people, total
<philipballew_> I partied alone in my room last night. Should I have put that as a loco event/
<DonkeyHotei> muy loco
<pleia2> philipballew_: no problem :) thanks for doing this
<pleia2> bkerensa: was fun, I put photos up here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/sets/72157629548073368/
<pleia2> as DonkeyHotei said the peak was about 15 people, but counting folks who just dropped in for a few minutes I'd say it ended up being around 20 in all
<pleia2> we were there for 3 hours, so people sort of came and went
<bkerensa> :D
<DonkeyHotei> 12 people were there pretty much the whole time
<bkerensa> cool we are anticipating about 55 attendees (We have 33 Yes + 9 Maybe) although we have people who refuse to RSVP for all events for "anonymity" purposes I guess and then we have also had some who just ran into LTP issues
 * bkerensa hopes we have enough beer/soda/pizza
<DonkeyHotei> glad i didn't end up in any of the pics
<bkerensa> what are those potatoes ?
<DonkeyHotei> yep
<DonkeyHotei> they were good, too
<DonkeyHotei> but the empanadas were even better
<bkerensa> ahh
 * bkerensa desires Taqueria Cancun Super Burritos so bad
<DonkeyHotei> there was a plate of three empanadas. i had one, wiretapp1d had another, and the third stayed on the plate even when they took the plate away
<bkerensa> =o
<philipballew_> bkerensa, yeah. for the sd ubuntu hours only i rsvp, but we have 8 people often
<philipballew_> they just dont care to rsvp
 * kdub included last time :-/
<bkerensa> philipballew: our salem ubuntu hours have on average 3-4 but its not really a tech city :)
<bkerensa> Our last Portland Ubuntu Hour had 25
<bkerensa> :D
<bkerensa> and were going to start shifting to two a month one on the East Side and one on the West Side
<philipballew_> bkerensa, your really organized
<bkerensa> philipballew: yeah kind of but this is my last cycle involved in leading our LoCo I think :)
 * bkerensa had planned to step down before the end of the cycle but things didn't work out
<philipballew_> who takes over?
<bkerensa> philipballew: That is a good question.... I'm hoping Nathan Williams will take the role and if he needs help I can asst him but if not there are other people I am confident can do it
 * bkerensa wont step down until all that is lined up
<philipballew_> you need to find a jedi apprentice
<bkerensa> But in Q I am going to be doing a intense amount of doc work and after Q cycle I plan to apply to be a MOTU
<philipballew_> motu sounds fun
<Julius_> Hi all
<Julius_> anyone willing to help a fresh ubuntu noob with a dual display problem ?
<Julius__> Hi again....anyone willing to solve a noob's problem  here.....concerning dual screen
<Julius__> anyone live here....maybe a better question?
<pleia2> Julius__: I think a of us are at work :) but you can ask your question, if folks are lurking they might know
<Julius__> thanx for responding
<pleia2> (I have only ever had one monitor, so I'm afraid I can't help)
<Julius__> Ok thank you...........Iá¸¿ in Holland country is asleep...will check the UK...1 hour difference
<pleia2> maybe try #ubuntu?
<Julius__> tried it all............works like a charm under Windows, must be something small....but Iá¸¿ all new in Ubuntu
<Julius__> Looks good but it's not the same
<Julius__> have a great day
<dragon> I don't think they understood that you were referring to the #ubuntu IRC channel.
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-04-28
<akk> On pangolin, my audio is silent, and when I look in alsamixergui, it looks like PCM is permanently muted. Clicking on it doesn't un-mute.
<philipballew_> bkerensa, was your Chinese food uds idea an official idea or were you going to have it as informal?
<bkerensa> informal
<bkerensa> :D
<philipballew_> alright. Just making sure.
<philipballew_> I just used the word ubuntu in a college paper!
<philipballew_> the professor better give me an A...
<bkerensa> lol
<philipballew_> It even fits!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2012-04-29
<philipballew_> oh hello California people...
<bkerensa> ;p
<philipballew_> bkerensa, why the long face?
<bkerensa> no long face
<bkerensa> just tired
<philipballew_> ah, you should drink red bull. I just had one.
<philipballew_> no sleep needed
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-04-22
<grantbow> meeting in 10 minutes?
<grantbow> quiet meeting so far and nothing on the agenda. Who's here for the meeting?
<eps> o/
<grantbow> ok, the floor is open. Any announcements?
<grantbow> well, there's a release coming up April 25th, 13.04 raring ringtail https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/
<darthrobot`> Title: [RaringRingtail - Ubuntu Wiki]
<grantbow> Let's move this roaring discussion to the email list. See you in two weeks. Meeting adjourned :-)
<pleia2> hmm
<MarkDude> Bad Pibot
 * MarkDude assumes kittehs
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-04-23
<philipballew> pleia2, Are there any Ubuntu events in June/July we need the banner for
<philipballew> ?
<pleia2> not that I'm aware of at this time
<philipballew> pleia2, alright, I will be out of the country but I will make sure the banner is in northern ca in case its needed.
<pleia2> thanks
<philipballew> Not that pleia2 will be around. Getting married and having fun without us. :)
<pleia2> I get back on may 13
<philipballew> nice! I hope all is well. When do you leave?
<pleia2> tomorrow morning
<philipballew> pleia2, Best of luck and safe travels. I wish you and MJ the best.
<pleia2> thanks :)
<bkerensa> \o/
<bkerensa> cheers
<The_Letter_M> Pleia2: Congrats on getting married.
<pleia2> thanks!
<pleia2> jus t5 days away, eeek
<grantbow> pleia2: eek
<grantbow> philipballew: let me know if you need anything
<philipballew> grantbow, I will. You as well.
<grantbow> what is your schedule for being out of the country?
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-04-24
<philipballew> grantbow, june 8th through july 24th I'll be in Mexico city.
<MarkDude> grantbow: pingy ping
<bkerensa> pleia2 is gone right?
<MarkDude> yes
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-04-25
<nhaines> Ubuntu 13.04 has been released. :)
 * MarkDude responded to Removing the Community (from header)
<MarkDude> https://plus.google.com/u/1/105095769731159704550/posts/KYEjCB954ds
<darthrobot> [R: plus.google.com] Title: [Mark Terranova - Google+ - #ubuntu #fail Most folks in #FOSS will admit Ubuntu isâ¦]
<MarkDude> Also commented on bug now marked wont fix
<MarkDude> That was closed 20 hours after dialog was implied
<Torikun> good post MarkDude
 * MarkDude has seen wont fix overused
<MarkDude> dialog did not happen
 * MarkDude will debate Jorge more if he wants to
<MarkDude> Really hoping Ubuntu people take the lead
 * MarkDude has no issue doing it tho
<MarkDude> The goes beyond one Distro
<MarkDude> Community is key to everything
<Torikun> yup
 * MarkDude 's motivation here is pure
<Torikun> but ubuntu delivers
<Torikun> well
<MarkDude> full disclosure; Me pointing out Ubuntu does not have Linux on its site was a jab
<MarkDude> Fully
<Torikun> yeah
<Torikun> they should
 * MarkDude really understands the logic of it tho
<MarkDude> And figure that does not upset Ubuntu's Community as much as some in FOSS
<MarkDude> Anyway
<Torikun> they way ubuntu is going now, they will likely replace all teh GNU tools lol
<MarkDude> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2013-April/002211.html
<darthrobot> Title: [[Ubuntu-US-CA] Community removal;am I over-reacting here? Where is the discussion?]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-04-26
<akk> Anybody know of a visual traceroute, either to run locally on ubuntu or online?
<akk> I've found several online ones, but they all run from somewhere nowhere near here.
<akk> I'm writing a talk for nongeeks on how web browsers work, and I want to give them a way of playing with routing.
<bkerensa> hmm I only use mtr these days
<akk> Sorry, should have specified, by "visual" I mean a map, not just a window wrapped around the cmdline output.
<akk> Apparently there used to be something called xtraceroute, but it's orphaned and has been dropped from the repos.
<akk> (and is only available through dodgy download sites, the original home site is gone)
<akk> I've found some python code that wraps traceroute and generates IPs, and I'm looking into whether python-mpltoolkits.basemap can plot them for me.
<akk> I'm pretty surprised that there seems to be no existing solution, though.
<akk> (oh, grr, the python code doesn't have an open-source license, either, though it's on github)
 * MarkDude has a few extra tickets to Oakland A's game on Wed, game is at 12:35
<MarkDude> Free if anyone wants one
 * MarkDude got them for $2 --- I did not bust the bank
<raevol> i upgraded my ubuntu server and lost all my xen VMs...
<raevol> the disk images are still there but i can't figure out how to attach them to new VMs...
<raevol> figured it out -_- was trying to create paravirtualized guests from full virtualized images... who knew
#ubuntu-us-ca 2013-04-28
<csgeek> hi all
<MarkDude_> Hello csgeek
<csgeek> so... I have a question...  since LA is about a 5 hour drive from SF.. I was curious if this was a north cali loco or south cali...
<csgeek> minor difference in commute
<MarkDude_> both
<MarkDude_> we have two basic regions
<MarkDude_> Norcal and So cal
<csgeek> same mailing list and forum and such for both?
<MarkDude_> Some events like Scale lots of folks show up to
<MarkDude_> Yes
<MarkDude_> For events, its clear WHERE they are
<MarkDude_> SF Ubuntu hour etc
<MarkDude_> So cal has some events that sound like fun
<csgeek> right.. SF is a big hint on the location :)
 * MarkDude_ is in Norcal
<csgeek> same here.. .in SF
<MarkDude_> Born in Socal, and visit regularly
<csgeek> hehe.. that's dedication
<csgeek> I just moved up here (Cali I mean) from chicago...trying to an idea of all the flossy penguin stuff in the area
<MarkDude_> All sorts of things
<MarkDude_> What interests you
<MarkDude_> We have all sorts of hackerspaces
<MarkDude_> Sudo Room and Monster toys in Oakland
<MarkDude_> Noisebridge in SF
<csgeek> yeah.. hackerspaces sound cool.. barcamps ...floss and large scale conferences and such would be slick
<MarkDude_> You interested in Raspberry Pi?
 * MarkDude_ has group making bots, mostly using Raspbian
<MarkDude_> The Ubuntu hours are good places to meet people. We should have a release party soon at Thirsty Bear in SF
<csgeek> well sort of.  My coding tends to be higher level..and I always thing all the pi projects are pretty slick....but I most of the stuff i've seen or done.. is ooh this is slick/shiny but It never keeps my attention span for any long duration
<csgeek> Ubuntu Hours?
 * MarkDude_ will PM link if thats ok :)
<csgeek> sure
<csgeek> it's IRC... PM away...
<csgeek> and thristy bear is very accessible to me.
<grantbow> hello from berkeleylug.com
<Torikun> yo grantbow
<Torikun> BAMF has a mailing list now: bamf+subscribe@linux-toys.com   to register, bamf@linux-toys.com to post
<MarkDude> Ordering parts this week, Learn to solder fun, either blinky light- or more likely light sensor
<MarkDude> https://www.facebook.com/groups/bamfgeeks/
<darthrobot> Title: [Redirecting...]
<MarkDude> custom name
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-04-21
<Roguehorse> Hello
<ianorlin> hi
<Roguehorse> my first meeting with you guys......
<ianorlin> starts in nearly half an hour
<pleia2> welcome Roguehorse
<Roguehorse> pleia2: Lyz right?
<rww> hihi
<Roguehorse> rww: Hey
<Roguehorse> How many here going to be in SF?
 * ianorlin is Torrance so a little far
<rww> me and pleia2 will be
<Roguehorse> cool
<arrith> my friend and i should be
<Roguehorse> I have a Web Builder group on Wed.... Then SF Thur
<Roguehorse> arrith: Good deal
<arrith> there was something about an installfest possibly happening, but something about that only being at mozilla and it's not being held at mozilla..?
<rww> arrith: there's an installfest in socal. I don't know of another one that got past the "we should think about doing this" stage
<Roguehorse> arrith: ?? Hmm....dk
<arrith> rww: how far into socal..?
<rww> orange county
<arrith> the further you go the more you have to pay off those dang cartels
<arrith> hm
<arrith> i forget if that's claimed territory
<arrith> potential roadtrip though
<ianorlin> it is at cal state fullerton
<Roguehorse> Everyone already do the upgrade?
 * ianorlin was testing 14.04 lubuntu on external hard drives then I just upgraded the one on my intenral hard drive on laptop
<Roguehorse> It came through one morning fopr me on startup, and I just went with it.
<Roguehorse> Seems to be ok, but now my Mint in VM is acting funky. Not sure why.
<Roguehorse> I upgraded VB GE hoping that would help, but not that I can tell. I winder if it's the change in graphics drivers?
<pleia2> Roguehorse: your n7 needs one of these! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ED3KMRQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
<darthrobot> Title: [Amazon.com: Blurex Ultra-Slim Case for Nexus Tabet -- With Smart Cover Auto Wake / Sleep Feature Nexus 7 FHD Gen II (Tangelo): Computers & Accessories]
<pleia2> I will show you on thursday, it's lovely
<Roguehorse> pleia2: I don't have one of those. I have an Acer A500
<lrcaballero> Hello everyone and good evening!
<Roguehorse> lrcaballero: Hi
<pleia2> Roguehorse: oops, I meant rww!
<pleia2> darn tab completion, sorry :)
<pleia2> Roguehorse: I'll show you on thursday anyway, since it'll be attached to my tablet ;)
<pleia2> which I'll be letting folks play with
<Roguehorse> pleia2: LOL! No worries....sounds good
<Roguehorse> I'm thinking about flashing my old A500 for Ubuntu but I don't know if it can handle it
<Roguehorse> it's running ICS 4.0.1 now
<pleia2> yeah, I've only tried it on officially supported devices
 * ianorlin doesn't even have a smartphone or tablet
<Roguehorse> ianorlin: sorry.....to be honest, I don't use my tablet much but my 4yr old son loves it
<Roguehorse> <a little too much> if you know what I mean?
<ianorlin> no I don't really want one
<pleia2> ok, meeting time!
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Apr 21 02:00:34 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/14April20
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/14April20 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> really just the release party stuff :)
<pleia2> who all is here for the meeting?
<nhaines> _o/
<ianorlin> o/
<lrcaballero> o/
<eps> o/
<pleia2> #topic 14.04 Release event planning
<pleia2> so things are coming together here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/TrustyRelease
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/TrustyRelease - Ubuntu Wiki]
<rww> o/
<Roguehorse> o/
<pleia2> I don't see philip here now, but he's hosting a little Ubuntu Hour-esque get together in San Diego on Thursday: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/2765-ubuntu-san-diego-1404-release-party/
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu San Diego 14.04 Release Party | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
<pleia2> I've been working with folks to get the San Francisco event to come together: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/TrustyRelease/SanFrancisco
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Projects/TrustyRelease/SanFrancisco - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> we'll have three Nexus 7s running Ubuntu for folks to check out :D
<rww> How does the SD release party time work when the place it's at closes at 11:30?
<raevol> ack a little late,  but here!
<rww> post-starbucks bar time?
<pleia2> rww: hah, good question (for philip)
<nhaines> Yeah, the party ends a couple hours after that Starbucks closes.  Something to track.
<nhaines> Oh hey, I should read the entire scrollback.  But yes.
<pleia2> :)
<rww> anyways, San Francisco
<pleia2> we have a lot of signups
<pleia2> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/2761-san-francisco-trusty-release-party/
<darthrobot> Title: [San Francisco Trusty Release Party | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
<pleia2> more than we've had for an event before, I'm impressed :)
<pleia2> (and a little scared)
<rww> hehe :)
<pleia2> the venue has that URL to track RSVPs, so they know what's coming, I'll follow up directly with them to make sure all is in order
<rww> what's left on the todo list?
<Roguehorse> What's the parking like around there and how close to BART?
<nhaines> That's good news.  :)
<pleia2> Roguehorse: it's between Powell and Civic Center BART, very close
<pleia2> Roguehorse: parking is awful, downtown and all
 * rww is BARTing
<Roguehorse> pleia2: BART it is!
 * pleia2 recommends Powell :)
<Roguehorse> pleia2: K, TY
<nhaines> pleia2: if there's a massive turnout and everyone's using public transport, maybe you can get a special price at the bar.
<pleia2> rww: todo list - I don't think anything
<pleia2> nhaines: the venue is providing drinks already :)
<nhaines> ooh  :)
<rww> pleia2: food?
<nhaines> rww: the important part is covered though.
<pleia2> rww: I submitted a community funding request to Canonical for food
<nhaines> Clever!
<pleia2> it's landing on my credit card though, will submit receipts for reimbursement (hopefully they approve it!)
 * nhaines crosses his fingers.
<Roguehorse> Ouch
<pleia2> we'll order a bunch of pizzas from Extreme pizza probably should figure out what actually
<nhaines> Make sure you get extra anchovies.
<pleia2> we were going to do Costco pizzas, but logistics for getting hot pizzas to the venus is hard :\
<nhaines> They get soggy, but pickles will add more crunch.
<pleia2> I want folks to have fun, not be sending everyone out on pizza runs
<nhaines> Please report back on that.
 * rww glares at nhaines 
<pleia2> hah
<rww> pleia2: did you get the quiz sorted out :D?
 * rww is trying to think of things to do
<pleia2> rww: haven't even started :)
<Roguehorse> Pizza works, easy. Trash can be a bugger though.
<pleia2> rww: I can create a google doc and we can collaborate on questions if you want
<rww> pleia2: woohoo. works for me
<Roguehorse> pleia2: Smart idea
<rww> btw, i'll be leaving work at 4:30 so i'll be there a bit after it starts
<rww> do you need volunteers to help set up, or is it minimal setup?
<pleia2> rww: PM me your email address for sharing goog docs?
<pleia2> rww: might need setup volunteers to make sure we have cords and things run properly
<pleia2> rww: if you could also bring the SCaLE stuff, we might use some of that
<rww> pleia2: sure
<eps> Roguehorse: There is paid parking at the Fifth and Mission garage. See http://sfpark.org/
<darthrobot> Title: [SFpark]
<Roguehorse> I would help set up but have to wait for a sitter before I can go.
<pleia2> eps: thanks!
<Roguehorse> eps: Thanks, I'll go BART though.
<pleia2> I have jyo coming by my place to help me haul over goodies too, 3 laptops and snacks from Costco (meeting eps at Costco the night before to pick up cookies and things)
<pleia2> I'll firm up what time we want to meet for setup, event starts at 6:00 so getting there by 5:30 for setup seems fine
 * ianorlin wonders if laptops will run out of power or if they are plugs?
<pleia2> ianorlin: I've packed a power strip, but I should ask about actual access to power :)
<Roguehorse> Has anyone checked the weather forcast? Just for giggles if anything else.
<pleia2> I have my little presentation prepped too, only like 10 minutes long (and will crib from nhaines' as well once that's around)
 * pleia2 never looks at weather forecasts
 * eps wonders about the wisdom of bringing touchscreens to an event where everyone's likely to have greasy fingers
<pleia2> haha
<Roguehorse> eps: LOL!!!!!
<Roguehorse> good call
<rww> yeah, I was bothered about that. figure i can just clean it off at the end of the evening though :P
 * pleia2 makes sign "please wipe pizza grease off hands before fondling tablets" :P
<Roguehorse> have packets of wipes EVERYWHERE!
<pleia2> haha, not a bad idea
<eps> +1
<pleia2> eps: haz wipes at costco? :)
<Roguehorse> get a case of baby wipes
<pleia2> alright, cool
<Roguehorse> ok, maybe a case is much
<pleia2> hehe
<lrcaballero> If someone can bring a couple of microfiber towels can help with the graese part...Costco sells 30 of them for like $18
<Roguehorse> lrcaballero: Good thought, but the microfibers can't be tossed
<nhaines> Fry's had 4 for $5.  Might be more economical for just one night.
<nhaines> Roguehorse: you wash them.  :)
<Roguehorse> nhaines: but that many people at once?
<eps> I should just look for Wet-Naps. (Smart and Final or Cash and Carry?)
<lrcaballero> Roguehorse: save them, wash them and use them for the car...hehe!
<Roguehorse> eh, bring em anyway
<nhaines> eps: giant bottle of hydrogen peroxide.
<pleia2> lol
<Roguehorse> nhaines: LOL!!!
<rww> cover the tablets in clingwrap
<eps> nhaines: planning on removing blood stains?
<Roguehorse> are we getting off topic?
<Roguehorse> ; P
<pleia2> ok, point taken about grease, I'll bring something along to handle it and remind attendees to be respectful
<Roguehorse> pleia2: +1
<nhaines> +1
<pleia2> anything else we can think of?
 * ianorlin has nothing else
<rww> remember to install stallboard on your tablets
<rww> for the ultimate ubuntu touch experience
<Roguehorse> maybe extra cords in case some fool is mean and takes one?
<nhaines> During the party?
<raevol> power strips?
<Roguehorse> idk, it was just a thought
<Roguehorse> nah, interface
<Roguehorse> no one is going to go for a PS cord
<pleia2> rww: haha, I am trying to avoid it to avoid offending people :)
 * pleia2 went with "random cats"
<nhaines> cats! \o/
<rww> pleia2: i have been terrorising elky with it
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> this is shaping up nicely, I'm excited :)
<rww> so am I :D
<Roguehorse> agreed
<pleia2> any other release party updates from anyone?
<pleia2> s/party/event
<rww> i was excited when it was 20 people, then i looked today and was wowed
<Roguehorse> what r we @?
<nhaines> I have some related forms I'll publish soon.
<pleia2> 30 registered on the site, 6 emailed me directly, and 17 maybes
<Roguehorse> not bad!
<nhaines> We have a promotional flyer, an attendee datasheet based on the Installfest HOWTO forms...
<raevol> u'll bug phil about the SD one
<rww> do we have anything else going on apart from SF, SD, and the installfest at OCLUG?
<pleia2> oh, I'm bringing "Hello, my name is" stickers too ;)
<Roguehorse> this is going to be fun! : )
<pleia2> nhaines: nice!
<pleia2> rww: I think that's it
<Roguehorse> pleia2: LOL! Always a fave
<rww> any action items?
<eps> We need "Hello, my nick is" stickers ;-)
<nhaines> And best of all, the CSUF faculty are really excited, so I have a full-page "talking points" sheet that breaks down Ubuntu, Installfests, and OCLUG.
<nhaines> So that'll be easy to adapt.  :)
<Roguehorse> eps: Going to have to custom do those
<pleia2> nhaines: that's awesome
<Roguehorse> eps: http://www.vistaprint.com/
<darthrobot> [R: www.vistaprint.com] Title: [Browsing's better with cookies enabled.]
<nhaines> All Ubuntu color palette.  The LUG saw it this month and were really happy with them.
<rww> i should get business cards one of these years
<nhaines> Otherwise, the installfest is looking like it's going to be good.  So I'll keep everyone up to date.  :)
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
<pleia2> any other topics anyone wants to bring up?
<Roguehorse> anyone have raffle prizes to donate?
<raevol> texted phil, SD release party on for this thursday at 7pm, that venue should be open then
<rww> raevol: yep, it's the ending time i was confused about
<rww> since it ends at 1am and starbucks closes at 11:30pm
<nhaines> Can we get that on the wiki or something?
<raevol> i think that's if we stroll over to a more late-night oriented venue :p haha
<rww> ah, okays :)
<pleia2> so far the raffle prizes are:
<pleia2>  * 1 Ubuntu Unleashed 2014 book
<pleia2>  * 1 Official Ubuntu Server book
<rww> nhaines: lyz just did
<nhaines> yay
<pleia2> if anyone else has new Ubuntu goodies to bring along as prizes, please do :)
<pleia2> I also asked jono if he had anything to bring
<eps> Do we know if he's coming?
<pleia2> he is!
<nhaines> pleia2: have him bring a Nexus 4 or something.
<nhaines> Or the Official Ubuntu Book!
<pleia2> nhaines: haha, for the raffle? :)
<nhaines> pleia2: yes  :)
<pleia2> Official Ubuntu Book is 7th edition and getting a bit long in the tooth :\
<rww> then we can prank call mozilla on it
<Roguehorse> I'm out of ideas
<pleia2> hah, me too
<pleia2> might be meeting end time :)
<nhaines> Oh!  One thing.
<Roguehorse> ??
<nhaines> I put links to the OCLUG installfest documents on the mailing list on April 9th.  So far they're still the same.
<pleia2> cool
<nhaines> So if anyone wants printables for a release party, there's a start.
<eps> pleia2: will we need cups, plates, tableware, etc.?
<Roguehorse> eps: just wet wipes
<pleia2> eps: I don't think so, but I'll doublecheck (and extreme can provide if needed)
<Roguehorse> LOL!!
<pleia2> definitely won't need cups
<Roguehorse> of course not, we won't have any printers there
<pleia2> :P
<pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
<raevol> \o/
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Apr 21 02:34:30 2014 UTC.
<darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2014/ubuntu-us-ca.2014-04-21-02.00.moin.txt
<nhaines> yay
<lrcaballero> good night
<Roguehorse> Good meeting!
<pleia2> Roguehorse: thanks for coming :)
<Roguehorse> No worries.....you guys are a cool crowd : P
<Roguehorse> thanks for having me
<nhaines> Roguehorse: you're always welcome!
<Roguehorse> TY
<Roguehorse> Anyone still around?
<geom> Please don't tell me I missed the meeting again?
<Roguehorse> geom: :P
<Roguehorse> yep
<Roguehorse> ended early
<geom> OK, thanks.
<Roguehorse> no worries
<geom> Thanks.
<ianorlin> minutes are  http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2014/ubuntu-us-ca.2014-04 â eps
<darthrobot> [404] Title: [404 Not Found]
<ianorlin>                      | -21-02.00.moin.txt
<rww> http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2014/ubuntu-us-ca.2014-04-21-02.00.moin.txt
<darthrobot> Content type: [text/plain] Size: [14410]
<geom> Great, thanks for the minutes.  Appreciate it.  \
<ianorlin> argh messed up that link
<nhaines> Yay, Cosmos tonight featured the Argonne National Laboratory.  That's my Ubuntu mirror.  :)
<arrith> anl is so fast
<arrith> love those guys
<arrith> pleia2: what does helping move stuff entail? do you need car(s) or just people with hands/bags?
<arrith> good to hear that jono is going to be there. i hope the event was annoucned on local LUG mailing lists
<pleia2> arrith: just hands/bags :)
<pleia2> arrith: and yes, it was announced to the local lists
<pleia2> nhaines: happy birthday!
<nhaines> pleia2: thanks!  :D
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-04-22
<jyo> pleia2: Can't have a Ubuntu party without launchpad/LoCo login fun.
<pleia2> jyo: hah, right
<philipballew> pleia2, We have to find a cool way to sync up our parties this Thursday or something.
<philipballew> so me and raevol can show off all the fun we are having.
<raevol> :D
<philipballew> kdub, you coming to the release meetup this Thursday?
<raevol> inquiring minds want to know
<kdub> didn't see a ml message, but I'll try, i'll let you know yes or no tomorrow
<raevol> :D
<kdub> life's been going full steam lately
<raevol> kdub: in a good way?
<kdub> raevol, oh yeah,good but busy!
<raevol> good :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-04-23
<rww> http://imgur.com/dwbWwq9
<darthrobot> Title: [imgur: the simple image sharer]
<pleia2> :D
<rww> works out of the box, with http://www.piware.de/2014/04/booting-ubuntu-with-systemd-test-packages-available/
<darthrobot> Title: [Booting Ubuntu with systemd: Test packages available Â« Martin Pitt]
<rww> is missing minor stuff like cron right now ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> minor stuff
<rww> also, 8 or so seconds faster than upstart to boot
<pleia2> yeah, I was thrilled when we got to 10 seconds on SSD once upon a time
<nhaines> rww: Worst. Resolution. Ever.
<rww> netbook
<nhaines> Needs moar dynamic scaling.
<rww> idk what that is
<rww> installing unity8-desktop-session-mir because netbook is not broken enough
<rww> lol, failed because upstart isn't running
<rww> (the install, i mean)
<pleia2> tsk :)
<nhaines> ha
<rww> i installed it but it refuses to run
<rww> is sitting there with cursor on black
<rww> gg
<nhaines> On the bright side, it probably broke the Unity 7 login too.
<rww> it was autologging in, which was fun to fix
 * ianorlin is thinking of upgrading from my 1024x768 crt monitor
 * ianorlin should get to bed
<someone_> hey i wanna start contribute to open source. can anyone tell me where to start
<pleia2> not in 1 minute
 * grantbow nods
<grantbow> maybe http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Features/How-To-Get-Involved-with-Open-Source
<darthrobot> Title: [How To Get Involved with Open Source Â» Linux Magazine]
<grantbow> via openhatch.org
<pleia2> they already left ;)
<grantbow> I just happened to see it in their channel just now
<Guest89383> kiwiirc.com >> qwebirc.org
<pleia2> Utopic Unicorn \o/
<bltz> Universal Uria
<bltz> Ultimate Upsidedowncatfish
<nhaines> Funny question here.  Is anyone driving up to San Francisco from the LA, OC, or SD area?
<nhaines> I can get a ride to San Francisco tomorrow, but not back down again.
<pleia2> according to the mailing list, George Mulak is :)
<nhaines> pleia2: yes, but he's visiting family and the timing just happens to work out.  So if I drive up with him I'll still be stranded.  :)
<pleia2> aha :)
<pleia2> traiN!
<nhaines> I thought about it!  But not enough to actually do any research on it.  Last I checked (maybe for 12.04?) it was more expensive than driving.
<pleia2> heh, probably is
<pleia2> but trains are cool
<pleia2> I ate too many jelly beans
<nhaines> Only ~$70 to fly back on United.  But then I'd have to be at the airport by 6am.
<pleia2> I'm going to the airport at 11 :) #nothelpful
<nhaines> ha
<nhaines> If I leave early on Thursday (as soon as I get to SF) I can fly back for only $53!
<pleia2> lol
<nhaines> Apparently travel prices are higher on Fridays.  Who knew?
<pleia2> o/
<pleia2> you could stay until saturday :)
<pleia2> sf is lovely
<pleia2> suppose it does mean you need to sleep somewhere though, which is $$$
<pleia2> nhaines: but you should defintely come, then you can give the "new things" talk instead of me \o/
<pleia2> (just kidding :))
<nhaines> Haha  :)  well, if I can get a way back I definitely will.  But yeah, airfare plus lodging right now is kinda...
<nhaines> Yay for timing!
<jyo> pleia2: Don't forget to namecheck @AdRollDev (or @AdRoll) when we tweet about the party. :)
<pleia2> jyo: oh yes, thanks :)
<pleia2> jyo: oh! meet me here at 199 New Montgomery at 5 tomorrow?
 * pleia2 tries to find eps, supposed to do costco run tonight
<rww> 23:50:50 <@rww/#ubuntu+1> LET THE UNICORN FROLICKING BEGIN
<rww> \o/
<pleia2> hehe
<arrith> pleia2: i think i can help tomorrow to carry stuff and stuff
<pleia2> arrith: cool, you want to meet at 199NM at the same time?
<arrith> the unicorn-themed wallpapers will be interesting
<arrith> pleia2: sounds good
<pleia2> my number: in case 610-952-7370 you can't find me
<arrith> ah ok
<pleia2> w00t, that was eps, running out to costco
 * pleia2 seeks cookies and snacks
<arrith> mm
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-04-24
<jyo> pleia2: Sounds good. See you tomorrow.
<pleia2> so many cookies
<nhaines> The best kind of problem!
<pleia2> got 120 cookies, massive bag of tortilla chips and salsa
<pleia2> some other chips
<pleia2> nhaines: oh! eps suggested for you: http://us.megabus.com/
<darthrobot> Title: [megabus.com | Now serving over 30 million bus customers in North America]
<nhaines> pleia2: fantastic.  :)
<nhaines> I zeroed in on a convenient $69 United flight... just have to figure out this thing called "mass transit"
<pleia2> BART will take you right to the airport
<nhaines> So it's been rumored.  :)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> what time is your flight?
<nhaines> Would be 12:52.
<pleia2> ah, mines at 1:45 and the husband always likes to run late
<nhaines> ha  :)  Well, it'd be Saturday flight anyway.
<nhaines> It's $24,000,000 to fly out on Friday.
<pleia2> ah, ok
<pleia2> lol
<nhaines> Plus taxes and fees.
<arrith> small price to pay
<arrith> for the night of a lifetiimme
<nhaines> haha
<arrith> everyone will be so surprised when mark shuttleworth bursts out of the cake
<arrith> oops, no one heard me say that
<nhaines> Strategically-placed frosting.
<nhaines> Okay, no promises but it's looking so don't be surprised if I'm around tomorrow.  :)
 * pleia2 fingers crossed
<arrith> woo
<pleia2> rww: we need quiz questions :) did you get the shared doc?
<rww> oh, that's what was on my todo list wasn't it
<rww> yep, sec
<pleia2> I came up with one
<pleia2> 2!
<arrith> you could make it easy... or get tricky. like easy matching release names with versions
<arrith> but then say, release to drop ppc, first release with juju support, first release with unity, openstack thing maybe
<arrith> hm i don't know these actually so nvm, don't do things i don't know D:
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> rww: I figure 10 questions is good
<rww> maybe make more and cut out the bad ones?
<pleia2> sure
<rww> Rejected question: In 10 words or less, explain what windicators are and why theyâre awesome.
<pleia2> hahah
<rww> "Name 3 current projects jono is working on and will appreciate us plugging"
<pleia2> "Who is Jono Bacon, and what would you do for a signed copy of his book?"
<rww> "what's the longest word you can form using only letters that have ubuntu releases associated with them"
<rww> i actually kind of like that one, but there are drinks at this thing so it probably wouldn't work
<pleia2> so that's a thing, just sodas
<pleia2> +juice, water
<pleia2> I figure I tell people "this ends at 9PM, let's go find a bar"
<pleia2> (except not me, because I can't drink right now)
<rww> (or me, so I am not unhappy about this)
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> thirsty bear after party!
<arrith> oooh
<pleia2> rww: I got bored, we should trim list
<rww> ok
<rww> +1/-1 everything and then take the top answers
<rww> or idk
<pleia2> rww: I'll print the answer key in case we have others checking surveys, then delete and print these up
<rww> woot
<jyo> pleia2: Cellarmaker is a smidge closer to AdRoll (in the opposite direction on Howard) than Thirsty Bear but the latter obviously has more capacity.
<pleia2> jyo: you shall lead the way then! (I'm not going, too much to do before my trip on friday)
<jyo> We'll play it by ear on how much more imbibing people want to do. :)
<pleia2> hehe
<rww> evenin' Flannel
<rww> oh, whoops, this isn't #ubuntu-offtopic
<Flannel> rww: Howdy Howdy
<raevol> almost friday!
<pleia2> philipballew: since you show your event ending before it begins, people can't RSVP or see it in our events list anymore: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/2765-ubuntu-san-diego-1404-release-party/
<darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu San Diego 14.04 Release Party | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
<pleia2> might want to fix that :)
<pleia2> starts at 7PM, ends at 9AM
<raevol> we do what we want in san diego
<pleia2> hehe
<raevol> ;) i'll text him
<pleia2> in case anyone else wants to use them, these are the slides I plan to use tonight: http://princessleia.com/presentations/1404-whats-new.pdf (swap out .pdf for .odp at the same URL for libreoffice version)
<darthrobot> Content type: [application/pdf] Size: [377167]
<raevol> nice nice :)
<philipballew>  pleia2 alright
<raevol> philipballew: \o/
<philipballew> heck yeah raevol
* grantbow changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: Welcome to the Ubuntu California Local Community (LoCo) Team! | Website: http://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: May 4th at 7PM | This channel is publicly logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<Darkwing> This should be fun.
<Darkwing> I might be visiting out there a few times.
<pleia2> Darkwing: yay visiting
<Darkwing> pleia2: I have a second interview with the Linux Foundation tomorrow.
<pleia2> Darkwing: ooh, good luck :)
<Darkwing> :D
<Darkwing> I made it though the first one yesterday before they finally asked me for my resume lol
<pleia2> hehe
<Darkwing> How is everything out in Cali?
<pleia2> beautiful
<DonkeyHotei> i was so hoping to have one or two or three trusty installs to bring tonight, no such luck (car trouble)
<Darkwing> LOL
<pleia2> DonkeyHotei: no worries, I think we've got about 5 laptops, should be good :)
<Darkwing> DonkeyHotei: I wasn't laughing at you... :/
<pleia2> not even sure how many people will play with them, mostly we're there to eat
<DonkeyHotei> it's sad that win8 is still the only viable touchscreen-oriented OS when half of all the new laptops in stores have touchscreens
<DonkeyHotei> kubuntu-active is dead in the water, and ubuntu won't do unity8 till utopic
<Darkwing> kubuntu-desktop with search and contain works well for touch screens
<DonkeyHotei> it's not specifically touch oriented like active, though
<Darkwing> True
<DonkeyHotei> and the number of people working on kubuntu-active is zero
 * ianorlin worries I would get my touch screen dirty and not clean it
<pleia2> pizzas ordered! (don't worry, they won't deliver until 6:30 :))
<DonkeyHotei> pleia2: i rsvp'ed late
<pleia2> DonkeyHotei: I saw, no worries :)
<pleia2> I actually have no idea how much pizza to order, this should be fun
<DonkeyHotei> for me, a meal is typically 3 slices
<pleia2> ordered 9 giant ones (8 slices each, cut into 12) for 40-60 people, plus we have chips and salsa, 120 cookies
<pleia2> someone better take leftovers home, I'm travelling tomorrow
<DonkeyHotei> watch the chips and salsa be grossly mismatched in quantity
<DonkeyHotei> as for taking leftovers home, i'm assuming nearly everyone will arrive by transit
 * ianorlin can't make it to San Diego or San Francisco
<DonkeyHotei> ianorlin: where are you?
<DonkeyHotei> that's me in irssi in a tmux session, since i'll leave the laptop here and have only my phone to get online with
<DonkeyHotei> and my phone has been having battery issues
<ianorlin> Torrance
<DonkeyHotei> there are no release parties in la-la land? seriously?
<pleia2> there's an installfest next month
<DonkeyHotei> you could go to that
<ianorlin> I know
<DonkeyHotei> my installation of trusty on a certain laptop has to wait until i have my car back
 * ianorlin wonders when the next ubuntu users days will be
<pleia2> ianorlin: probably July, but since we just wrapped up ubuntu open week this morning, I might die if I think about planning another event right now :)
<DonkeyHotei> what are users days? sorry, i've been out of the loop too long
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays
<darthrobot> Title: [UserDays - Ubuntu Wiki]
<pleia2> learn about ubuntu kind of deal
 * ianorlin goes to eat lunch
<DonkeyHotei> less than 2 hours till i leave
<jyo> pleia2: Heading out in a sec. Lobby at 5p or..?
<DonkeyHotei> lobby of what?
<pleia2> jyo: yeah, just give me a call when you get here: 610-952-7370
<pleia2> DonkeyHotei: my home, he's helping me bring stuff over to the venue
<jyo> pleia2: yep, already have it. See you in a bit.
<DonkeyHotei> still in the same place?
<jyo> Don't think AdRoll has moved despite raising another round.
<DonkeyHotei> i meant does she still live in that building at 3rd and howard?
<DonkeyHotei> *2nd
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-04-25
<DonkeyHotei_> release party commencing
<ianorlin> yay
<DonkeyHotei_> hi
<not-rww> whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 * ianorlin has to get dinner for his father for his birthday today
<DonkeyHotei_> even jono is here
<not-rww> wait where did jono come from
<not-rww> i swear he snuck in the back
<nhaines> not-rww: someone tell Jono I said hi.  :P
<DonkeyHotei_> nhaines: reply was "hey, nathan! how's it goin'?"
<nhaines> DonkeyHotei_: thanks.  :)  Of course I'm bummed not to be there but I'm there in spirit. (Specifically a Stone Sublimely Self-Righteous Black IPA).
<DonkeyHotei_> nhaines: how do i pass that on, and to whom?
<nhaines> DonkeyHotei_: as is, and to jono or whomever.  Or not at all.  Just a joke.  :)
<DonkeyHotei_> just showed him this screen
<nhaines> Probably best for all involved.
<DonkeyHotei_> eps's idea
<DonkeyHotei_> "i love him. he's awesome" in reference to you
<nhaines> :D
<DonkeyHotei_> jono, not eps
<DonkeyHotei_> i'm intending to leave early, so signing off
<pleia2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/sets/72157644280395482/
<darthrobot> Title: [San Francisco 14.04 Release Party - a set on Flickr]
<nhaines> pleia2: +1
<jyo> Yay, some of the more crappy pictures in there are by me.
<nhaines> pleia2: looks like it was a huge success  :)
<DonkeyHotei> leaving early didn't end up happening
<nhaines> DonkeyHotei: was it fun?
<DonkeyHotei> you saw the pics
 * ianorlin likes the pics
<DonkeyHotei> i'm the one always on the phone
<nhaines> I did see the pics.
<arrith> whewww
<arrith> that was intense
<arrith> i have questions.. for people. if i can remember them
<arrith> pleia2: do you happen to remember the rankings of the quiz winners?
<arrith> i think i know which i got wrong
<arrith> also i guess support for the 3.13 kernel is being dropped, just... not exactly sure when. people have been saying 2 years
<nhaines> Okay, time to reimage this VPS with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS instead of 12.04 -> upgrade.  Be back. :)
<arrith> rww: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ_wXOFQV3M
<darthrobot> Title: [GNU/STALLMANQUEST - YouTube]
<rww> so, how did the san diego release party go?
<raevol> it was fun!
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-04-26
<philipballew> nhaines, Still planning to head south to pick up that banner?
<nhaines> philipballew: yup!  I'm not entirely sure when.  Probably not this weekend, but possibly next.  Are you usually around on the weekends or a Monday?
<philipballew> usually, but I will not be in San Diego from may 10th till the end of the month. If I am not around, Mikey will have it.
<philipballew> nhaines, I have not left the area in a few months.
<philipballew> area = sandiego/tijuana/east sd county.
<nhaines> philipballew: great, but by "around" I mean "in the US".  :)
<nhaines> (I'm still trying to find my expired passport to have the stamped pages moved over before I renew it.  Or reapply, whatever.)
<philipballew> nhaines, oh most definitely. Just text me the day before or so.
 * philipballew uses a Senturi card
<nhaines> Great.  :)
<nhaines> Yeah, I'm not sure if it's worth it to get one, but I will look into how easy it is to get both once I renew.
<philipballew> yeah nhaines a passport card is not a bad idea.
<rww> nhaines: it's as difficult as just getting a passport. you just add money
<philipballew> its like 30 bucks
<rww> indeed
<philipballew> I had to get a background interview for my senturi card though. Was a giant pita
<nhaines> rww: I know it's the same process, just less money for only the card.  But I'd rather just do the paperwork once.  I've only been to Mexico twice and would probably fly anyway.
<philipballew> When I go deep into Mexico i fly out of Tijuana as its only 15 minutes away and flights are cheap.
<philipballew> Passports are a pain in general
<rww> even more so when you lose it while in Mexico and are not a US citizen. that was fun.
<philipballew> rww, where in Mexico?
<rww> can't remember, it was years ago
<philipballew> ah, no worries
 * ianorlin hasn't left
<nhaines> Now that the work I'm doing for the Ubuntu on Air hangout tomorrow is getting closer to done, I'm annoyed that the game Uplink doesn't run.  I'm not paying $10 for it again.  Maybe WINE....
<nhaines> Yay, done!
<nhaines> Well we made sure to mention the Ubuntu California release parties on the Ubuntu On Air LoCo update.  :)
<nhaines> Also I see I'll have to get jose to change that video thumbnail :P  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Z0J3asdt0
<darthrobot> Title: [LoCo Teams Update - 26 Apr 2014 - YouTube]
<pleia2> thanks \o/
<nhaines> pleia2: sorry my Ubuntu 14.04 LTS presentation got delayed.  First was easter, and then my birthday, and then a job interview, and it's just been that kind of week and a half.
<pleia2> nhaines: no worries :) I hope mine is useful to you
<nhaines> pleia2: definitely.  Mine's going to be more general with optional sections, so being able to put in a "what's new" section will be really helpful.  :)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2014-04-27
<nhaines> Daphne's for dinner!
<Adran> nhaines: didnt that go bust?
<nhaines> Nope!
<MichaelPaoli> BerkeleyLUG meeting soon - http://www.berkeleylug.com/?page_id=67 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/berkeleylug/IjGjkQ2b_xE
<darthrobot> Title: [Berkeley Linux Users Group Â» Meetings]
<darthrobot> Title: [Google Groups]
<nhaines> pleia2: I'm going to see if OCLUG wants pizza for their 10am-2pm installfest, and then I'm going to see if I can get someone else to pay for it (leadership! \o/).  Any light you can shine on the reimbursement request procedure would be helpful. :)
<rww> pleia2, jose: and on a related note, I see the community donations page says it releases reports every six months. Any idea where I could find those? Google isn't being helpful.
<nhaines> rww: the funding page *clearly* says at the bottom: If you have any further questions, please email Michelle Surtees-Myers <michelle@canonical.com>  here.  :P
<nhaines> But yeah, it would be nice to see the reports.
<rww> yeah, but canonical people are scary or something idk
<rww> and yeah, I'm curious how much money they get out of the donations page, both because it's interesting and because i'm considering throwing money at them because i like the description/limitations they mention
<nhaines> rww: cut out the middle man and buy me pizza!  \o/
<rww> hehehe
<nhaines> If I get the job I'm interviewing for, I'll likely throw money at them too (but because my experience will have gotten me the job :P).
<rww> I *suspect* that the more community people throw money in that pot the more happy Canonical would be to throw money in that pot, so...
<nhaines> I *suspect* Canonical doesn't throw money in that pot.
<nhaines> But who knows?  :)
<rww> hopefully we will, when we find the report!
<nhaines> \o/
<nhaines> My Ubuntu DVD pack got released from US Customs!  \o/
<jose> rww: a report hasn't been released yet
<jose> I am expecting one to be released for this cycle
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-04-20
<nhaines> Ooh, I didn't remember penguins.  But yeah, the jellyfish at the Long Beach Aquarium were pretty cool.
<pleia2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6422051177/in/set-72157628199907705 penguins :D
<darthrobot> Title: [IMG_3174 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!]
<pleia2> that was a nice trip
<nhaines> pleia2, akk: oh, you might know this.  In the story they go back out to the "pier" around dinnertime to see sea lions laying on the rocks.  Is that big there or might there be otters?
<akk> I've never seen otters on the rocks.
<nhaines> And then I'm going back to what I'm actually being paid for, which is line editing.  :P
<nhaines> akk: no, they'd be floating in the ocean.
<akk> I can't remember if the sea lions are on the rocks or mostly in the water.
<akk> But yes, there are likely otters floating in the ocean.
<akk> Usually they're a bit farther out, not right by the pier/restaurant/etc. like the seals are.
<akk> But I wouldn't be surprised if you could see them from the pier; certainly it's not uncommon to see them from shore in Santa Cruz, should be at least as good in Monterey.
<pleia2> nhaines: oh! there's a place beyond cannery row (we drove) where there were other restaurants and lots of sea lions
<akk> Also, you might not see otters unless you knew to look for them, but you can't miss the sea lions, they're noisy.
<pleia2> looks like Coast Guard Pier is where they often are
<nhaines> Suuuper, thanks. :)
 * ianorlin hasn't been to monetery
<ianorlin> although I wonder if anyone has used linux on top of hurd peak
<nhaines> The clear choice would be GNU/Hurd.
<pleia2> they just did a release the other day, up to 0.6!
<pleia2> exciting stuff ;)
<pleia2> my first LUG meeting was on GNU/Hurd, I had just started using Linux, it's a wonder it didn't scare me off entirely
<nhaines> ha!
<ianorlin> but that is a real place
<pleia2> yeah, I just got distracted with the mention of GNU/Hurd :)
<akk> ianorlin: Or has anyone used Linux for a research project on gnus.
<ianorlin>  /me hopefully should get dinner before meeting as I am hungry
<nhaines> Meeting in 30!
<pleia2> nhaines: did you ever write a blog post re: scale?
<nhaines> pleia2: still sadly in the queue.
<pleia2> thought so, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing it :)
<nhaines> It *is* in the queue though.  :)
<pleia2> did we ever get photos from anyone?
<pleia2> there were a couple here and there on social media
<nhaines> I don't think so.  I have booth and team photos.
<pleia2> ok, working on backlog of team reports, so we can just update here if any turn up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports/15/February
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports/15/February - Ubuntu Wiki]
<nhaines> <3
 * elky peers in
<nhaines> _o/
<ianorlin> o/
<pleia2> o/
<nhaines> Well, that's 80% of this editing project and 2/3rds of my dinner finished.  I guess we'll have the meeting once I can copy/paste some URLs.  :)
<nhaines> #startmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Apr 20 02:00:18 2015 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<darthrobot> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> o/
<nhaines> #chair nhaines elky ianorlin
<darthrobot> Current chairs: elky ianorlin nhaines
<elky> \o
<nhaines> Hi everyone, welcome to our biweekly LoCo meeting!  :)
<nhaines> The agenda for this meeting is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/15April19
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/15April19 - Ubuntu Wiki]
<nhaines> A couple people have chimed in.  Is anyone else attending?
<nhaines> Okay, so we'll discuss the only agenda item.
<nhaines> #topic Review mailing list feedback about online meeting schedule.
<pleia2> I was the only one who sent feedback, so I win
<nhaines> +1
<nhaines> I intended to reply to you but I've been working through the weekend unfortunately.  But I was glad you chimed in.
<pleia2> so do you have any in-meeting/offlist reply now?
<nhaines> In general, I think that the miscellaneous business can be handled better on the mailing list, and not require a meeting.
<ianorlin> yeah as the list does seem quite quiet recently
<elky> i'm currently trying to dinner, so i can't really type one out right now. but i find fortnightly meetings to be too much personally
<nhaines> The mailing list goes to all active LoCo members and IRC logs don't.
<pleia2> yeah, my concern is that we won't come up with miscellaneous business if we're not meeting
<pleia2> people drift off
<nhaines> So I would like to address that--preferably with a more active mailing list.
<elky> well the only misc business is currently about empty meetings, so that probably says something
<nhaines> Especially because it's always the same 7 or 8 people in meetings all the time.  All of whom I value but I worry about echo chambers.
<pleia2> the no agenda meeting a few weeks back had someone reading the logs who ended up hosting the last SF Ubuntu Hour
<ianorlin> yeah that is true but have they come to another meeting?
<nhaines> Yes, but I got the impression he was already on the mailing list.
<pleia2> ianorlin: they didn't come for that meeting, they read the logs
<ianorlin> ah
<pleia2> so people do that :)
<nhaines> pleia2: I took your point for granted, but I was happy to see it illustrated to keenly.
<nhaines> s/to/so/
<pleia2> it wouldn't break my heart to move to monthly meetings, just trying to make sure all views are seen here
<ianorlin> yeah I wish there was more attnednece to meetings as well
<nhaines> pleia2: well, that's why I wanted feedback.  :)
<nhaines> So the trick now is to try and figure out why there was basically no feedback.
<elky> i already had my say in the meeting that's logged, so that mostly
<nhaines> My suspicion, based on low meeting attendance, is that nobody was bothered enough to respond.
<ianorlin> also I find I get quite a few emails about bugs so if people don't reply I may get lost and not respond to a nonactive thread
<ianorlin> but that might not be a problem for less active users who we are trying to get to contribute more
<nhaines> What about this?  What if we look at 2014 and 2015 meetings and see how many had no set agenda?
<nhaines> If it's a significant amount, we should move to monthly meetings that are not cancelled due to lack of agenda items.
<pleia2> wfm
<elky> that would be a good metric
<ianorlin> what does wfm mean?
<nhaines> That way we lessen the administrative burden of meetings while still guaranteeing that someone doesn't accommodate a meeting that doesn't end up happening.
<nhaines> ianorlin: "works for me"
<ianorlin> ah that makes sense
<pleia2> sorry :)
<nhaines> Meetings are important but people shouldn't be waiting for meetings to make smaller announcements.  The bulk of that should either happen in channel or on list as they come up.
<ianorlin> yeah wating for meetings doesn't work good as you could forget to bring it up
<elky> yeah, announcements are easy to lose
<elky> list archives are nicer and more searchable than meeting logs by far
<pleia2> so who wants to do meeting archeology?
<nhaines> I'm less worried about announcements being "forgotten" as opposed to people sitting on announcements and losing time for comments or collaboration.
<nhaines> I can honestly say I probably won't manage to make the time to do meeting archeology this month.
<elky> it's also easier to fire off a response in a thread, so there'd probably be more discussion overall
<pleia2> me neither
<elky> i could probably manage it
<nhaines> elky: you can pet the cat while you scour through the logs.
<ianorlin> I could but will be busy when until thursday with testing stuff pretty much
<elky> (sorry, eating pizza, delayed response)
<elky> ianorlin: don't worry about it, i'll do it
<pleia2> thanks elky
<nhaines> Okay.  I don't think this is super high priority and so maybe we'll get to it in a month?  May 17th?
<elky> sounds good
<nhaines> But if you can announce the results on list first so there's time for discussion, that'd be better than waiting for a meeting.  We can decide what to do at the meeting or codify list consensus.
<pleia2> predictably I'll be traveling on the 17th
<nhaines> (And we don't have to decide at the meeting--if results aren't forthcoming until then, we'll decide at the next meeting.)
<ianorlin> nhianes +1
<nhaines> pleia2: Let's see how it goes.  I want more information before a decision, so even if that date's a conflict, we'll make sure we get a statement from you.
<elky> #action elky to do stats on meetings for the past few years and report to the list prior to the 17th for discussion at next meeting lyz can get to
<darthrobot> ACTION: elky to do stats on meetings for the past few years and report to the list prior to the 17th for discussion at next meeting lyz can get to
<elky> sound good?
<nhaines> Which is another important reminder!  If you can't make a meeting, you can always chime in on the list in the days beforehand and we'll mention your opinion in the meeting!
<pleia2> sounds good
<nhaines> TIL 1.3 years == "a few"
<nhaines> More data is better though.  ;)
<nhaines> Okay, thanks, elky.  Any other comments before we move on?
<elky> nope
<nhaines> #topic Other business
<nhaines> Okay, that's the end of our agenda items today.
<pleia2> there weren't any team reports for this year, so I made them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports
<darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/TeamReports - Ubuntu Wiki]
<nhaines> \o/
<pleia2> please feel free to add to them if needed, particularly if you have some more info from scale
<nhaines> Yeah, I really do need to gather my photos.
<pleia2> I linked mhall119's blog post, but that's it really
<ianorlin> oops I haven't used uploaded pictures still
<nhaines> pleia2: thank you so much for compiling those reports!
<pleia2> sure thing
<nhaines> Ubuntu 15.04 will be released on Thursday, the 23rd.
<pleia2> I also wanted to mention, I still have the keys to twitter, g+ and facebook, and I try to keep them updated with events and meeting announcements and things, but I could always use help if anyone is interested
 * ianorlin has key to Google+
<pleia2> ianorlin: feel free to pitch in!
<nhaines> I'm trying to start using my Twitter feed more, especially since it's linked to my Amazon Author Page.  But social media is hard for me.  :P
<pleia2> it was kind of fun keeping them updated during scale since I wasn't there, but mostly it's kind of a tedious exercise
<nhaines> I can see the recruitment posters now.  "Does tedium excite you?"
<pleia2> seems unlikely that we'll have any release event in san francisco, even informal
<pleia2> nhaines: I sure know how to sell it!
<nhaines> :D
<nhaines> vivid is a revolutionary cycle.
<nhaines> Unfortunately, it's all under the covers.  :)
<pleia2> systemd is scary :D
<pleia2> should be interesting
<nhaines> I've heard a lot of people happier with much faster boot times.  And the phone is looking marvelous.
<nhaines> I rather enjoy using my tablet with vivid.
<nhaines> And in the 'w' cycle, hopefully XMir will land and then you can throw desktop apps in a click package or chroot jail and run them on your phone or tablet.  It won't be pretty until the next LTS cycle but it will be feasible.
<nhaines> I haven't heard of any solid release party plans down south either.
<nhaines> Well, it's still not too late!  Release parties are quite often the weekend after or even a week after, so if you want to run a party and act fast you can still get in on the fun!
<nhaines> It can be as simple as gathering at a coffee shop or a restaurant to talk about Ubuntu.
<ianorlin> it doesn't matter much to an end user
<nhaines> We want to hear about it on the mailing list and on the LoCo directory at loco.ubuntu.com!
<nhaines> I have a little bit of swag to pass out so if your in the SoCal area and have something planned let me know.  I have one Official Ubuntu Book left.
<nhaines> Okay, is there any other business before us before we wrap it up?
<pleia2> same goes for here, if anyone wants to do anything in SF or nearby, I can give some goodies
<pleia2> I'm just overwhelmed event-wise right now, so I can't do it
<nhaines> pleia2: +1
<nhaines> Okay, in that case, I think we're done for this week.
<nhaines> I've been running vivid for a month now and it's super great!
<pleia2> yay :)
<ianorlin> I also found an interesting confence in portland
<nhaines> So 15.04 should be nice and reliable, and LibreOffice 4.4 is very lovely.
<nhaines> We've plenty to be excited about even if it "seems" quiet on the Ubuntu front.
 * ianorlin has been binge watching presentations from open source bridge
<nhaines> Our next meeting will be held on Sunday, May 3rd at 7pm.
<nhaines> Hope to see everyone there!
<nhaines> Thanks every for coming tonight.
<nhaines> #endmeeting
<darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Apr 20 02:33:49 2015 UTC.
<darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2015/ubuntu-us-ca.2015-04-20-02.00.moin.txt
 * pleia2 seeks dinner
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-04-21
<kdub> good morning
<pleia2> nhaines: happy birthday :)
<elky> nhaines: haha you're older now
<ianorlin> happy birthday nhaines
<blitz> happy birthday nhaines
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-04-22
<nhaines> pleia2, elky, ianorlin, blitz thanks!
<nhaines> 35 is weird.  It's almost half a lifetime.
<nhaines> Hopefully in another 30 years I can just upload my brain into a computer.
<blitz> rapture of the nerds
<elky> heh you're not that much older than me
<pleia2> yeah, I turn 34 this year
<pleia2> I think, it all kind of blurs together after 25
<pleia2> but I can still math \o/
<nhaines> Basicaly!
<blitz> I definitely lost track after 25
<blitz> still feel 25
<nhaines> Basically it all just still feels like this (language): https://twitter.com/MyntyFresh/status/590278293116456960
<darthrobot> Title: [Nick Trujillo on Twitter: "Adult conversations with @LaScaldaferri http://t.co/jCHm2hqOr0"]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-04-23
<philipballew> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/22/man-shoots-computer-eight-times_n_7119246.html
<darthrobot> Title: [Colorado Springs Man Shoots Malfunctioning Computer Eight Times, Calls It 'Glorious']
<pleia2> philipballew: re ghana visa, it's easy, you send your passport to the ghana embassy here in the US + check for $60 or something and wait a few weeks for them to send it back
<pleia2> US tourists don't usually have a problem
<akk> Mailing passports always sounds like such a scary option.
<ianorlin> it is sort of hard to find pink window borders for openbox :(
<ianorlin> that would also work for lxde
<nhaines> pleia2: Ghana charges admission?  :)
<nhaines> Also, taskwarrior is coming to Android and Ubuntu (on phones)! :D
<pleia2> nhaines: pretty standard visa filing fee ;)
<blitz> p.cool http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/04/18/rich-neighbors-refused-to-let-george-lucas-build-studio-so-hes-building-affordable-housing-instead/
<darthrobot> Title: [Addicting Info â Rich Neighbors Refused To Let George Lucas Build Studio, So Heâs Building Affordable Housing Instead]
<akk> Ha, great solution.
<ianorlin> -hmm ubuntu california google+ should probably share something about 15.04 being releaseed but am not really used to managing pages and need to figure out the ui
<pleia2> unfortunately we don't have any parties planned
<ianorlin> although 255 iso test for me \0/
<pleia2> wow, nice job
<ianorlin> although upgrading to this desktops made spinning up vms so much easier
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-04-24
<nhaines> pleia2: I've only been to countries that grant automatic visas.  :)
<ianorlin> hmm linux.conf.au seems interesting but I don't know how I would do in an airplane
<ianorlin> and fosdem had lots of talks but not many good recordings :(
<nhaines> ianorlin: airplanes are boring.  They're like busses except faster.
<nhaines> The problem with going to Australia is that you're in the airplane for like 20 hours.
<ianorlin> hmm manpages.ubuntu.com isn't up for 15.04 yet
<Roguehorse> sent this to my boss https://youtu.be/f8Co37GO2Fc
<darthrobot> [R: www.youtube.com] Title: [Enabling students in a digital age: Charlie Reisinger at TEDxLancaster - YouTube]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-04-25
<ianorlin> hmm https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation doesn't have a case for installing on multiple disks on a computer but using all of them
<darthrobot> Title: [Installation - Community Help Wiki]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2015-04-26
<MichaelPaoli> Berkeley Linux Users Group (BerkeleyLUG) http://www.berkeleylug.com/?page_id=67 We're at Bobby G's now ... also have some newest Ubuntu 15.04 & Debian 8.0.0
<darthrobot> Title: [Berkeley Linux Users Group Â» Meetings]
#ubuntu-us-ca 2016-05-01
<pleia2> work, book deadlines and travel have been all-consuming, so updating things for our meetings has really slipped on my end
<pleia2> apologies for that, hopefully it'll be better at the end of May
<pleia2> (schedule-wise, we should have one tonight, but no announcement or updating of any resources to tell people since our meeting in March, so...)
#ubuntu-us-ca 2019-04-22
<pleia2> happy birthday!
<nhaines> pleia2: thank you!  :)
<nhaines> Okay, looks like it's that time again!
<nhaines> #startmeeting
<nhaines> Welcome to the Ubuntu California meeting for April 21st!
<nhaines> Tonight's agenda is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/19April21
<nhaines> #topic Announcements
<nhaines> Let's mix things up a bit and start with the announcements.  :)
<nhaines> Ubuntu 19.10 is out!  Yay!
<b-yeezi> 19.04?
<nhaines> Since I set up a new writing computer about two months ago, I've been running 10.10 with the minimal install and a few snaps.  It's been really solid.
<nhaines> b-yeezi: yup!  Not sure where .10 came from.
<nhaines> Ubuntu 19.04 is out.  And it is quite nice.  Linux 5.0 kernel, better GNOME Shell improvements.  Latest LibreOffice.
<b-yeezi> python3.7 is good (at least for me(
<nhaines> The next release cycle, "eaon," will begin to set the groundwork for the LTS release after that.  So to have 19.04 be so solid is a pretty start!
<nhaines> #topic Upcoming events
<nhaines> Are there any events happening in the near future we should know about?
<nhaines> This is a great time to thinking about release parties, which can be as simple as meeting up at a local restaurant for dinner.
<b-yeezi> I am a member of the San Diego Python user group. I'm going to suggest having an install party
<b-yeezi> Which I would lead, but if anyone else is in SD area, I'd be happy to share the load
<nhaines> It can be a good excuse for a get together!  Ubuntu 19.04 ships with Python 3.7.3.
<nhaines> If you do decide to have a release party, be sure to list it at https://gettogether.community/ and announce it on the mailing list.  If you have any questions or need any help, please be sure to let us know!
<b-yeezi> Is a release party separate from an install party?
<nhaines> A release party is when people get together to say "yay, this thing exists!"  An install party is when people get together specifically to try and get a thing running on hardware.
<nhaines> They don't have to be separate, but release parties are much easier to organize.  :)
<b-yeezi> OK
<nhaines> #topic Agenda
<nhaines> The agenda for this meeting is empty.
<nhaines> #topic Other business
<nhaines> Anything else going on we should know about?
<nhaines> Okay, we'll keep this meeting short due to the holiday.
<nhaines> Feel free to discuss more on our mailing list, which you can subscribe to at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Ubuntu-us-ca
<nhaines> Our next meeting is scheduled for May 19th, and I'll see everyone there!
<nhaines> Take care, everyone.  :)
<nhaines> #endmeeting
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-ca to: https://ubuntu-california.org (has links to mailing list, forum, and more!) | Next Meeting: Sunday, May 19th, at 7:00pm PDT (UTC -7:00) This channel is logged at irclogs.ubuntu.com | We have an unlogged channel at #ubuntu-us-ca-offtopic
<nhaines> Yay, post-meeting tasks complete.
