#ubuntu-uds-client-2 2014-03-11
<didrocks> bregma: you should have the link
<didrocks> bregma: feel free to share it :)
 * didrocks wonders where bregma is ;)
<bregma> just getting coffee
<didrocks> ah ;)
<bregma> for those who want to join https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfTAv5sma393Z-H3XAvqV8dhnFJ8L6QnmQk0Ggmd_RS7eeECg?authuser=0
<rickspencer3> o/
<xnox> live! =)
<tedg> Hi didrocks!
<CheeseBurg> You have to close the window.
<didrocks> hey tedg :)
<didrocks> CheeseBurg: done already, 3 minutes ago
<didrocks> CheeseBurg: there are 3 minutes lag between the record and live
<didrocks> I couldn't find the window, sorry for the delay ;)
<CheeseBurg> I am way behind then, didrocks
<bjf> didrocks, the audio is totaly not understandable, echo
<ara> didrocks, mute yourself, please
<didrocks> ara: this was already done (3 minutes before)
<ara> didrocks, :)
<didrocks> my CPU is going crazy, hence the echo I guessâ¦
<didrocks> as I'm hosting
<tedg> bregma, This is mostly running the XDG Autostart stuff, right?
<bregma> tedg, no, most are just upstart
<tedg> bregma, Do you think they should have custom Upstart configs?
<bregma> tedg, yes
<bregma> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7073936/ and http://paste.ubuntu.com/7073938/
<tedg> We've done a pre-start that checks for the session to be ubuntu-touch or not.
<tedg> That or making the start condition have an "and xsession"
<tedg> I'm liking the pre-start condition more and more because it's a bit more flexible.
<xnox> bailing out in pre-start is a good way here.
<xnox> and it's not upstart, but rather upstart job =)))
<tedg> Well, upstart is the session manager :-)
<bschaefer> tedg, you're welcome to join in the hangout :)
<tedg> I think the relationship between Unity-mir and powerd is being reworked.
<bschaefer> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfTAv5sma393Z-H3XAvqV8dhnFJ8L6QnmQk0Ggmd_RS7eeECg?authuser=0
<tedg> bschaefer, Heh that implies more involvement than I want :-)  But sure.
<xnox> tedg: =)))
<xnox> ..
<xnox> are you planning to use webbrowser-app or firefox?
<xnox> i'd expect webbrowser-app to work on unity8 session.
<rsalveti> yeah, I'll check what is bringing hybris in
<rsalveti> as in theory nobody should be directly installing the egl wrappers
<rsalveti> that's what is currently breaking the desktop
<rsalveti> video keeps freezing from time to time for me
<xnox> The design for settings is here
<xnox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemSettings
<xnox> includes desktop, phone and some tablet designs.
<xnox> not everything is implemented.
<xnox> i think desktop was planning to make the "phone settings app" to do "desktop" stuff on the desktop, eventually.
<CheeseBurg> xnox: Those don't update very often.
<rsalveti> bregma: put an action for me to investigate the issue with hybris
<bregma> rsalveti, sure
<cwayne> is nobody in the notepad?
<ssweeny> seems not
<mhr3> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/devel/ubuntu-14.04/cplusplus/unity-scopes/
<dobey> also, the updates are separate, as they are in the system-settings, not in the scope itself
<dobey> we have that same problem with non-apps content in click packages
<dobey> this *is* the right irc channel for the scopes session, right?
 * ssweeny hopes so
<facundobatista> dobey, i think so
<jdstrand> fyi, this is the spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ScopesConfinement
<jdstrand> we figured that scopes could access trusted helpers like location and online accounts, because those would prompt
<jdstrand> the user asking if the access to those helpers was ok
<jdstrand> 11:29 < jdstrand> fyi, this is the spec:
<jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ScopesConfinement
<jdstrand> 11:29 < jdstrand> we figured that scopes could access trusted helpers like
<jdstrand>                   location and online accounts, because those would prompt
<jdstrand> 11:30 < jdstrand> the user asking if the access to those helpers was ok
<mrjazzcat> :)
<karni> great
<jdstrand> I think there is some question as to how that prompt would be displayed
<facundobatista> thostr_1, the "annotations" feature you talked about is the one that allows the recommendation to point to a subdepartment of a scope?
<jdstrand> but that is an implementation detail
<karni> facundobatista: yes. basically, linking between scopes, departments, I believe also filtering.
<facundobatista> karni, that is already done in the client?
<karni> facundobatista: That is client side work, I believe. Not sure how annotations apply to smart scopes.
<davidcalle> facundobatista, not implemented in the UI, afaik
<karni> facundobatista: oh, you asked if this is implmeneted. ^ what davidcalle said
<facundobatista> karni, the remote scopes scope must be able to recommend a scope/department
<karni> facundobatista: If you can put together a question, happy to forward it to the hangout.
<karni> facundobatista: Sadly, I'm not familiar with smart scopes :( But I ack your last point.
<didrocks> hum
<facundobatista> oh, I lost video!
<facundobatista> (and audio)
<dobey> me too
 * mrjazzcat too
<gatox__> hangout just die
<cwayne> me too
<didrocks> yeah, it's back now
<dednick> broadcast died
<davidcalle> Back for me
<mrjazzcat> cool
<karni> tnx
<mrjazzcat> it's back
<didrocks> my browser doesn't like when I overpromise it seems :p
<facundobatista> karni, do we know when this "annotations" will be ready?
<cwayne> sorry if i missed it, but did anyone discuss scopes in JS yet?
<davidcalle> cwayne, not yet
<karni> cwayne: thostr_1 just mentioned we only have a prototype
<karni> facundobatista: I'll ask
<facundobatista> karni, thanks
<jdstrand> QUESTION: when the new scopes lands on the images (I know it is coming soon if it hasn't already), I plan to do the apparmor profile templates for local scopes with filesystem permission and local scopes with networking permission. When do we expect scope developers to be able to upload these types of scopes to the click app store? (related to the qtc point you just made)
<davidcalle> facundobatista, I wish we could use uris like "scope://grooveshark?department=blues&q=..."
<jdstrand> thostr_1, olli: (I had a question) ^
<karni> I'll forward
<jdstrand> thanks
<karni> Facundo, then Jamie ;)
<olli> jdstrand, ack
<alecu> QUESTION: where can I find the "online/offline" api?
<dobey> can whoever is typing so much, please mute yourself unless you are speaking in the hangout?
<karni> here, it looks like everyone's muted, dobey
<karni> most of the time
<dobey> there was a lot of clicky sounds while people were talking, a couple times. it made it harder to understand the speaking person
<karni> I agree, heard it too.
<jdstrand> two weeks sounds reasonable. and you plan to start soon. ok, good, I know how to prioritize my work
<dobey> alecu: why shouldn't they? would we do the same for content clicks vs. apps?
<alecu> dobey: I'm not aware of what would be the story for content clicks
<karni> alecu: seems hangouts show you muted, but you're not when you tyep
<dobey> right, it's a general problem though. not limited to scopes vs. apps
<karni> *type
<alecu> weird!
<cwayne> i dont have any questions ATM
<dobey> how many swallows can you ship in a click package?
<ssweeny> African or European swallows?
<dobey> yes
<karni> lol
<cwayne> as long as /custom's still there im good :)
<ssweeny> if we have clicks we might not need /custom
<ssweeny> as long as we can install clicks
<facundobatista> project is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-rest-scopes
<cwayne> oh right
<cwayne> why do i keep forgetting that...
<facundobatista> see README there, explains it all
<cwayne> as soon as JS scopes are possible, be prepared for like 1000 from me
<cwayne> we have that in place mhr3
 * alecu fears the karni of darkness
<cwayne> we click install to /custom/click
<karni> alecu: haha
<mrjazzcat> thank you
<davidcalle> Thanks all
<dobey> alecu: as long as he doesn't start singing bad rap
<karni> facundobatista: thanks for the link
<bregma> so there will definitely be at least one more Mir landing before Ubuntu 14.04?
<kgunn> bregma: as stated on the video, yes, at least 1 ...probably a 2 or 3
<kgunn> if we do 3, the third would likely be bug fix only
<TIP> hi
<didrocks> hey TIP
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/client-2/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/11/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2.html
#ubuntu-uds-client-2 2014-03-12
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/client-2/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/12/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Dash Smart Scope Scope | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/meeting/22135/dash-smart-scope-scope/
<alecu> hello!
<didrocks> hey alecu
<didrocks> alecu: the session has been moved apparently
<alecu> ah, I'm in the wrong irc channel
<alecu> didrocks: thanks
<didrocks> :)
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#ubuntu-uds-client-2 2014-03-13
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/client-2/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/13/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Unity8 updates | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/meeting/22187/unity8-updates/
<kgunn> if folks want to join...
<kgunn> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdeoIQjgglMiG2l--2zSdJl12RcGP4SVmbnUJlCuSjsDyWw5w?authuser=0
<didrocks> kgunn: you were breaking up
<jdstrand> rsalveti: ah, I just pinged Chris to join this session, so maybe you can ask your questions about hwaccel here :)
<didrocks> jdstrand: rsalveti: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdv1-3CbM3iyNnFODizI2urwkZIi7l-Z_2EdBSK31bgzTt0pA
<didrocks> bfiller: ^
<bfiller> didrocks: thanks
<bfiller> oSoMoN: ^^^
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Web Browser Application for touch devices | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/meeting/22178/client-1303-apps-webbrowser/
<rsalveti> hm, got a conflict with core-1, but will try to join for a while
<jdstrand> I too have a conflict
<jdstrand> I've asked chris to join (who is a better representative for this anyway)
<alex-abreu> what's the hg url?
<didrocks> alex-abreu: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdv1-3CbM3iyNnFODizI2urwkZIi7l-Z_2EdBSK31bgzTt0pA
<sergiusens> bfiller, your live
<alex-abreu> didrocks, thx
<didrocks> yw
<dbarth> hey chrisccoulson, can you share the branch with the ua work?
<chrisccoulson> https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/oxide/network-callbacks
<dbarth> sweet!
<alesage> question about the possibility of getting a webdriver going: https://bugs.launchpad.net/oxide/+bug/1285750
<udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1285750 in Oxide "Provide a web driver for user acceptance testing" [Medium,New] - Assigned to Alexandre Abreu (abreu-alexandre)
<alesage> does the existing chromium driver help us?
<bfiller> ppa install instructions here:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7084806/
<alex-abreu> alesage, not really we need a specific build
<daker> Are we going to have a developer tools with Oxide ?
<alex-abreu> daker, yes part of the plan
<alex-abreu> daker, there is a bug for that, I am checking that in between other things
<dbarth> didrocks: here is the ffe for now: https://bugs.launchpad.net/libunity-webapps/+bug/1290535
<daker> for 14.04 or 14.10 ?
<udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1290535 in webbrowser-app (Ubuntu) "[FFE] Webapps support for the new Oxide container" [Undecided,New]
<alex-abreu> daker, ideally 14.04
<daker> ok
<bfiller> bugs here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/webbrowser-app/+bugs?field.tag=oxide
<didrocks> daker: thx!
<rickspencer3> QUESTION: sorry if I missed it, but is it useful if I try the browser on my desktop?
<elopio> here is a bug reported for web driver:
<elopio> https://bugs.launchpad.net/oxide/+bug/1285750
<udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1285750 in Oxide "Provide a web driver for user acceptance testing" [Medium,New] - Assigned to Alexandre Abreu (abreu-alexandre)
<dbarth> rickspencer3: it is, but you should be able to try that via the webapp container soon
<bfiller> and here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/oxide
<dbarth> rickspencer3: as webapps should run on top of an oxide container
<rickspencer3> dbarth, ok
<dbarth> and it works quite well; running youtube and google calendar with it everyday
<rickspencer3> if it would help for me to install a ppa and try testing now, I'm happy to do that
<elopio> dbarth is doing the hangout from oxide ;)
<rickspencer3> nice!
<chrisccoulson> i think that was a joke ;)
<rickspencer3> bfiller, can you give me instructions for installing the web browser?
<chrisccoulson> i'm fairly sure that wouldn't work yet :)
<rickspencer3> I'll totally switch to it as my primary
<bfiller> rickspencer3:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7084806/
<dbarth> elopio: not yet
<rickspencer3> bfiller, that seems within my skills and abilities ;)
 * rickspencer3 installs 
<bfiller> rickspencer3: :)
<dbarth> rickspencer3: just make sure to remove the ppa from your source list once installed
<bfiller> rickspencer3: just make sure to remove that ppa from your sources list after, as it has a lot of other cruft that could mess up your desktop
<bfiller> rickspencer3: we're working on moving the oxide stuff to it's own ppa but not there yet
<rickspencer3> thanks dbarth and bfiller
<rickspencer3> good tip
<rickspencer3> bfiller, dbarth just ppa-purge?
<daker> i use the ua-string override for some webapps
<dbarth> rickspencer3: never really used ppa-purge much, but this should work, yes
<rickspencer3> arg ... g+ won't let me go there in the browser :?
 * rickspencer3 shakes fist at Google
<oSoMoN> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7085057/
<pmcgowan> Has there been any updates from the Mozilla folks on their success or lack thereof in getting websites fixed?
<pmcgowan> Do we have a plan for how to avoid the offers for native app installs?
<daker> they evangelize their UA, so they the websites that don't serve mobile content for their UA
<pmcgowan> daker, right, and we somewhat benefit from that, we did talk to them directly
<daker> pmcgowan: i believe oSoMoN and chrisccoulson had a meeting with them
<pmcgowan> yes
<pmcgowan> ah right, the toolkits
<pmcgowan> beuno was going to help on that
<pmcgowan> I think I would prefer to have our own pure user agent but some sort of blanket override possibility, as even the bastard string may not work
<pmcgowan> the problem is of course you cannot go back
<rickspencer3> it will help them win if Ubuntu becomes more common
<rvr> The UA pattern to serve desktop/mobile content is a broken one
<pmcgowan> rickspencer3, whats your thinking, go with a practical string or with a pure string that needs overrides everywhere?
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, I think we should start with the practical over the pure
<rickspencer3> that's my $.02
<rickspencer3> make the web work
<rickspencer3> the trade off for the Ux is getting those darn "install my app" pages
<pmcgowan> yeah thats the issue
<rickspencer3> pmcgowan, yeah, I think we should accept that trade off for now
<rickspencer3> imho
<pmcgowan> yeah, no perfect answer, the web is busted
<pmcgowan> its also hard to get statistics to show how often our browser is used if the string changes
<pmcgowan> when will downloads work?
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Track: Client | Contact and Calendar syncing | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/meeting/22180/client-1403-pim-sync/
<didrocks> bfiller: ok, let's wrap up maybe and switch to next session?
<pmcgowan> thanks
<didrocks> bfiller: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYes4tHRU4-_4wV_CTOx5w50Gu0iCBJwKuk0vrxpHKJHImEvog for your next session
<bfiller> renato: ^^^
<bfiller> spec is here: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1qa0twAq3oRbzsIM5kkjsWm0D1cUP1IQrOyv4fgYIfIo/edit#
<tedg> Hmm, wasn't in the room. Can someone repaste the doc?
<kenvandine> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1qa0twAq3oRbzsIM5kkjsWm0D1cUP1IQrOyv4fgYIfIo/edit#
<tedg> kenvandine, Thanks!
<tedg> Why do we want them as one process? It seems like running the sync component and then having the memory free'd is a good thing?
<mardy> tedg: +1
<tedg> What is sync monitor watching? Could we just make it conditions of the upstart job?
<mardy> tedg: online accounts events (account created, enabled, disabled, deleted)
<mardy> tedg: maybe something else as well, I don't know
<tedg> mardy, Those are all dbus signals, no?
<bfiller> sync monitor watching UOA enable/disable events and changes to the address book service so it knows when to kick off the sync
<mardy> tedg: yes
<tedg> So yeah, we can use the upstart dbus bridge.
<tedg> start on dbus SIGNAL=enable or dbus SIGNAL=disable
<jono> hey all
<tedg> Would be interesting if we could run syncevolution based on a push notification.
<jono> sorry, just joined, do we have any ETAs when we can expose google calendar events to the calendar app?
<jono> I think that will significantly ramp up calendar development
<charles> +1
 * tedg thinks jono just wants his team to show up to meetings
<jono> lol
<charles> having google calendar events show up in the datetime indicator automatically without a lot of manual user config work would be a big win
<tedg> Yeah, I'm always surprised how many people don't know that feature in datetime exists.
<tedg> Would love that on the desktop as well.
<jono> tedg, because it never works :-)
<tedg> jono, Heh, I use it constantly.
 * tedg setup the ical feed for vUDS
<charles> tedg, it's because people don't know about syncevolution and its config is nontrivial
<jono> dpm, can you throw me the hangout URL
<charles> having it Just Work would be so much better
<tedg> charles, Sure it needs to be part of configuring online accounts.
<dpm> jono, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYes4tHRU4-_4wV_CTOx5w50Gu0iCBJwKuk0vrxpHKJHImEvog
<tedg> Wow, just saw jono on the feed.
<tedg> Seems like a 2 min delay today on hangouts.
<jono> tedg, I am everywhere
<jono> check your closet
<tedg> jono, I know you're in the closet
 * tedg locks the door
<tedg> jono, We should talk about the delay with Google though, it has made vUDS harder today.
<jono> tedg, I am coming out of the closet
<jono> tedg, delay
<jono> ?
<tedg> jono, Today the delay for the hangout feed is about 2 min, making HO/IRC sync harder.
<jono> yikes
<balloons> tedg, yea I agree it feels worse
<Saviq> syncevo on MeeGo lets you set schedules
<Saviq> i.e. every 10 minutes during the day, every hour overnight
<Saviq> and that's per-provider, something like that would be relatively cheap, and could be modified to take WiFi vs. 3G into account
<tedg> When you get there (fighting the delay) why do we want Qt binding for SyncEvo backends instead of extending at the EDS backend?
 * mardy afk
<Saviq> dpm, jono - it works with the steps from http://notyetthere.org/syncing-ubuntu-touch-with-owncloud-or-any-carddav-server/
<Saviq> with the caveat that you need to tweak some of the parameters
<Saviq> to make it use a calendar and not the contacts
<jono> thanks Saviq
 * Saviq is syncing the calendar for a while now
<dpm> thanks!
<pmcgowan> that model is not great for the phone?
<pmcgowan> periodic polling that is by the syncevo daemon
<pmcgowan> right, push
<tedg> The problem with us doing it is that we need to then move the Google credientials for all the users to our server.
<nxvl> and that's something most users won't accept
<tedg> nxvl, Well, most users probably would accept it, but I don't want that responsibility :-)
<nxvl> and why some people didn't trusted blackberry e-mail
<nxvl> tedg: well, yeah, that as well
<tedg> We probably don't want a library, and loading that.
<tedg> It's hard to confine a loadable module.
<tedg> It'd be better if we could run a process that then could use some IPC.
<tedg> We don't want a trusted daemon loading untrusted code into its memory space.
<tedg> I think the simple use-case is a Facebook type app that could put birthdays in the calendar.
<tedg> Or allowing enterprises to put the corporate directory as a click package.
<kenvandine> tedg, that would be a cool use case
<tedg> Or Salesforce having all your business contacts as an addressbook.
<tedg> bfiller, renato, jono, ping on the security issue above
<jdstrand> it is impossible to confine a loaded module
<jdstrand> said loaded module must be in a separate process to confine it
<bfiller> tedg: not sure what the security issue is.. can you summarize?
<tedg> bfiller, Don't use a lib, needs to be a separate process.
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-client-2 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/client-2/ - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/13/%23ubuntu-uds-client-2.html
<bfiller> tedg: it is already a seperte process (sync-monitor/sync evo)
<tedg> bfiller, In the 3rd party case.
<bfiller> ah
<tedg> The comment makes sense to where I am in the HO feed :-)
 * jdstrand has no context at alol
<jdstrand> all
<didrocks> bfiller: it's time to start wrapping up (there is a meeting about Qt 5.2 after that one)
 * jdstrand is in another session
<bfiller> ok
<tedg> alol is my favorite state
<didrocks> jdstrand: double yourself!
<jdstrand> mine too, it just isn't the state I'm in :)
<jdstrand> didrocks: man, I wish I could code that up :)
<didrocks> jdstrand: I heard good things about go with multiple processes :p
 * tedg is staticly compiled
<dobey> tedg: you wish :)
<zyga-uds> thanks
<zyga-uds> very interesting session
<jdstrand> bfiller, tedg: again completely lacking context but I will say it is ok to use a .so file *if* you fork, aa_change_profile(), then load. the new scopes architectureis doing something similar iirc
<jdstrand> though there might be some issues there with shared memory. if going that route, I recommend talking to the security team for specifics
<tedg> jdstrand, The problem in this case is that you'd want more than one.
