#launchpad 2004-09-13
<justdave> man, doing a star-merge with an empty revlib on a 233 MHz machine is a pain in the butt.
<justdave> pulling from rocketfuel back to the desktop machine since the laptop is getting dismantled so I can return the dead hard drive in it.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
!dmwaters:*! Hi all, it looks as though one of our main rotation servers is having some network trouble.
!dmwaters:*! This server was just pulled from rotation, and we're keeping an eye on it
<elmo> does something in gnome set there polling the CD drive?
<elmo> s/gnome/warty/ I guess since, I killed the X session
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
<elmo> hmm, not having a root password, makes mistake like typo-ing 'usermod -s $SHELL user' that much more painful
<carlos> elmo:  wrong channel?
<carlos> spiv: ping
<elmo> carlos: no? warty's the only system I know without a root password/user :p
<carlos> elmo: but this is the #launchpad channel, not #ubuntu :-)
<elmo> oh, so it is
* elmo goes back to sleep
<carlos> :-P
<lulu> daf: ping
<SteveA> daf, carlos, lulu: can we have a rosetta meeting in 20 mins?
<lulu> SteveA: yup - and Lalo and Limi?
<carlos> SteveA: for me it's ok, but I think daf is not online now
<SteveA> I had a chat with mark last night, and clarified some of the details of what we need to do with rosetta.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
<lulu> SteveA: I'd  recommend we have the full team present, as we now need to lay down what is/what is not deliverable for each milestone. It would be good for Limi and Lalo to be present. Thoughts?
<SteveA> I think me, you, carlos and daf will be sufficient to discuss my conversation with mark last night
* SteveA waits for daf to appear
<lulu> SteveA: ok
<daf> hi everybody
<daf> I'm just going to grab some breakfast -- be right back
<lulu> hiya :o)
<daf> ok, let's start!
<carlos> daf: that was a fast breakfast :-P
<daf> I'm still eating :)
<carlos> :-)
<lulu> Steve's just on a call with Jane...
<lulu> daf: in the interim, could you check the rosetta server - it's down. cheers :o)
<SteveA> hi, I'm back.
<carlos> ok, could we start then?
<carlos> I should go out in about one hour 
<SteveA> yep, let's start
<SteveA> I want to clarify our immediate goals for rosetta
<SteveA> I had a talk on the phone with mark last night, and we talked in some detail about what rosetta needs to be able to do
<SteveA> For our alpha, and beta releases, rosetta will be a "global rosetta"
<SteveA> it will be available under rosetta.ubuntulinux.org
<SteveA> there will be a hard-coded page there that lists the packages in ubuntu that we most want translation help on, with links into rosetta
<SteveA> but, any packages/products will be available for translation in ubuntu's rosetta
<SteveA> and if someone requests we add a product that isn't in ubuntu, that's fine, we can do so
<SteveA> the products will still be availalbe, but won't be directly linked to the ubuntu rosetta front page
<SteveA> we also want to put rosetta (same database, maybe even same app server) at rosetta.theshuttleworthfoundation.org or rosetta.tsf.org.za (or whatever it is)
<SteveA> rosetta will be "marketed" first of all as a TSF project.  TSF is mark's non-profit organisation in south africa.
<SteveA> TSF/mark will be approaching governments etc. in africa to get them interested in rosetta
<SteveA> and in having a localized ubuntu
<SteveA> this too will be a "global" rosetta, but with no "we want help with these ubuntu packages" page
<SteveA> later on, after the beta, we'll want a rosetta.projectname.org, for example, rosetta.dia.org, for translating just the dia application.
<SteveA> So, that's the context of the alpha / beta release.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> tolkien.freenode.net
<SteveA> for functionality, we need two things:
<SteveA> 1: A way for people to request new packages be added.  This can simply be a web form that emails daf, or emails the launchpad list.
<SteveA> 2: someone is able to translate an application into a language of their choice, or add translations to a language an application is translated into already
<SteveA> the overall functional test is "can I efficiently and effectively translate Dia into gaelic?"
<SteveA> I'm done.  Does that make snese?
<SteveA> or , sense, even
* limi nods
<carlos> SteveA: the point 2) should be almost ready, the 1) is a new feature, but I don't think it's difficult to do it
<limi> 1) is in there, but not wired up at the moment, I believe
<limi> UI-wise :)
<carlos> limi: perfect :-)
<limi> of course needs HappyTalk Adjustment etc ;)
<lulu> SteveA: so we have global Rosetta with the top projects on the home page, rathjer than
<lulu> being dynamic, hard coded links to ubuntu packages
<SteveA> right.  the ubuntu rosetta is a "global" rosetta, with a different homepage.
<lulu> and the search will reveal all projects in "global Rosetta"
<SteveA> we can make the software do this easily enough
<SteveA> yes
<lulu> that's fine - different to what Mark and I discussed yesterday.
<SteveA> to make the software do this, we can have /rosetta and /ubunturosetta
<lulu> how are we showing translation efforts then, as we have not got that sorted yet?
<SteveA>  /rosetta can be an object that provides IRosettaApplication and /ubunturosetta an object that provides IUbuntuRosettaApplication.  We register a different homepage for the latter.
<SteveA> we don't need translation efforts for the alpha or beta
* SteveA waits for daf to offer an opinion on the whole thing, and on translation efforts
* limi gets breakfast/lunch
<limi> being sick is no fun :(
<SteveA> leakfast or brunch
<carlos> SteveA: translation efforts is not finished, in fact is frozen until "post-beta" phase
<carlos> so we don't need to care about it
<SteveA> good
<daf> SteveA: the whole thing sounds fine
<daf> and I believe translation efforts are not of concern at present
<SteveA> daf: do you need to re-visit your document, given the above?
<daf> yes
<daf> I need to add the requirement for being able to request new projects
<SteveA> can you do that now, and then we can talk about the revised doc a little later today
<daf> sure
<carlos> then, is the meeting over now?
<SteveA> daf: great.  Shall we say in 1 hour?
<SteveA> carlos: yes, thanks
<carlos> ok, I will be back after lunch
<carlos> cheers
<lulu> SteveA: thanks for final definitive clarity.
<SteveA> I had quite a long conversation about rosetta with mark last night
<daf> SteveA: 1pm UTC?
<SteveA> while he was walking around outside his parents' place, trying not to crush snails underfoot
<SteveA> daf: yep, 2pm your time
<SteveA> is that okay?
<daf> yep
<lulu> Limi needs to revise UI of the home page and place hard coded links on the page for all the Ubuntu applications. 
<lulu> is the definitive list on the wiki for warty?
<SteveA> I think we'll have the list of applications stored in python code
<limi> indeed
<SteveA> so, the ubuntulinux front page will get that list, and display it appropriately
* limi will not add 9328746 applications in the HTML ;)
<lulu> so limi - you can get to the app list then?
<limi> yup
<limi> as long as there is a method that returns i
<limi> t
<lulu> great - can you do the ui for this page today?
<limi> probably, dashboard is also a priority
<SteveA> daf / carlos / lalo can do a mock-up that displays the data, and replace it with limi's golden version later
<limi> my productivity is hard to predict, since I am not well yet
<limi> sometimes I have to lie down in the middle of the day
<limi> but today has been good so far
<limi> so let's shoot for that ;)
<lulu> great - so home page and dashboard is going for gold
<limi> if not, a honorable silver ;)
<limi> they should be functional, if not pretty
<SteveA> we'll insist on doping tests for whichever gets gold
<SteveA> so, you never know... silver may get upgraded
<lulu> we are due to launch on the 15th September guys - 2 weeks away, so we need to start testing this final functionality that is now our goal.
* limi would certainly not pass the doping test with this much vitamin C
<lulu> limi: hope you feel better soon :o) - I know Vikings bounce back quickly!
<SteveA> daf: how's the revision going?
<daf> I've revised the document
<daf> NotFoundError: (<RosettaProject at 0xb41dd74c>, 'title')
<daf> eh??
<SteveA> I'm reading through the document now.
<lulu> At the conference, we agreed that the task board was very useful to keep track of daily tasks.
<lulu> and that we should have a meeting every day to track progress
<lulu> is the team in agreement that we should continue this?
<daf> I foudn it very effective while we were physically together
<SteveA> daf: when we have this page that mails you to request a new project be included, how will you actually include the new project?
<SteveA> daf: what are the bugs in po import?
<SteveA> #
<SteveA> Submitting new/updated translations.
<SteveA>     *
<SteveA>       Partially implemented, being worked on by Daf.
<SteveA> do we have a list of things needed before this is fully implemented?
<daf> I can't work on this because too many other things are broken
<daf> traversals are broken
<SteveA> let's take one thing at a time.
<daf> adapting principals to persons is broken
<SteveA> first, bugs in po import
<SteveA> do you have a list of these bugs?
<daf> the PO import causes duplicate message IDs in PO files
<daf> that's the only one I can think of
<daf> we don't have a list
<SteveA> ok, please file that bug in bugzilla
<daf> which Bugzilla?
<SteveA> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/
<SteveA> there's a rosetta product/component in there
<SteveA> who is going to fix that bug?
<daf> Lalo is
<SteveA> is he working on it now?
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1905
<daf> I have no idea
<SteveA> please mail lalo, and give him that bug URL, and ask him to work on fixing that bug
<daf> he'll have already gotten mail when I assigned that bug to him
<SteveA> better to mail him, and actually ask him to work on it
<daf> I'll add a comment to the bug
<daf> which he'll get by email
<daf> done
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> what are the bugzilla logins?
<SteveA> I have my password, but I don't know what login id to use/
<daf> they are email addresses
<SteveA> I tried that
<SteveA> I guess I need a new password...
<SteveA> we need to note in the bug that we must have a unit test or a functional test for this
<SteveA> also, a description of how to reproduce the bug would be good, so we know how to empirically test that the bug is fixed.
<SteveA> this could be in the form of a doctest in the bug report.
<SteveA> oh, I must show you the new zope3 functional doctests soon -- now with no need for set-up boilerplate!
<daf> ooh
<SteveA> we need to get lalo to estimate the task of fixing this bug
<daf> getting lalo would be a start...
<SteveA> is it 1/2 day, 1 day, ...?
<daf> no idea
<daf> I don't know the import code well enough
<daf> I don't have a test case
<SteveA> lalo should estimate it, not you
<daf> I just noticed it happening as I was fixing the ftests
<SteveA> please add to the bug's notes that task 1 is to write a test case
<daf> oh, rhetorical question
<SteveA> task 2 is to fix it
<daf> ok, another comment added
<SteveA> great
<SteveA> next, let's talk about submitting new / updated translations
<daf> feel free to CC yourself to this bug
<daf> ok
<limi> 1) Create translation tool
<SteveA> we need to come up with the list of things that stand in the way of your doing this
<daf> first of all, I need to be able to see the translation template
<daf> limi: I think this step is the hard one
<limi> yes, me too
<daf> this is prevented by at least two things
<daf> first, traversing to this template doesn't work
* SteveA is worried by "at least"...
<daf> second, adapting IPrincipal to IPerson doesn't work
<SteveA> traversing to which template doesn't work?
<SteveA> please give a URL table spec
<daf> https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution
<daf> any templates beyond project are affeted by this
<daf> I've been working on a fix for this
<daf> I'm confused by this "rosettaProducts" method
<SteveA> maybe you'd like me to work on fixing this?
<SteveA> I probably caused the bug
<SteveA> stick a bug in bugzilla, and assign it to me
<daf> I think you did
<daf> but I also think I've fixed it
<daf> by adding IRosettProject.produt
<SteveA> what is the fix?
<daf> .product
<SteveA> I don't think that's the right way to fix it.
<SteveA> Here's what I suggest:
<SteveA> * keep your fix in your sandbox, so you can keep working
<SteveA> * assign the bug to me in bugzilla, and I'll work on it
<daf> sandbox?
<SteveA> * add the patch you used to fix it to the bug in bugzilla
<SteveA> by "sandbox" I mean your own tree on your laptop
<SteveA> which may contain uncommitted code
<daf> it doesn't
<SteveA> it doesn't what
<SteveA> ?
<daf> contain code which hasn't been merged to rocketfuel
<SteveA> so, you have already merged your fix?
<daf> no
<SteveA> the notion of "sandbox" is just, "place where you do work"
<SteveA> you are playing in your own sandbox
<daf> yes
<SteveA> ok.  does that address that problem of traversal?
<SteveA> you can keep working, I'll fix it in RF
<daf> but it will cause more work for me later, won't it?
<SteveA> what will cause more work for you?
<SteveA> (got to lose that pronoun habit!)
<SteveA> ;-)
<daf> resolving our differing fixes
<daf> pronoun habit? :)
<daf> oh, "it"?
<SteveA> I had to ask what "it" was
<daf> sorry
<SteveA> you'll be able to just remove your fix
<SteveA> once mine is in RF
<daf> ok, we'll do it this way
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> next, principal --> person
<daf> https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/translator
<daf> (as exhibited by)
<SteveA> ok, here's the problem:
<SteveA> we have principals who are people who have logged in
<SteveA> we have the unauthenticated principal, which is the state of the system when no-one has logged in
<SteveA> when you want to present something that depends on the Person who is logged in, you need to check that a person actually is logged in
<SteveA> we can do that in two ways
<SteveA> 1: set a permission on the page so that a person must be logged in to access it
<daf> how do we do that?
<SteveA> 2: check to see if a person is logged in, and present something else if not
<SteveA> easiest way to do "2" is:
<SteveA>   person = IPerson(request.principal, None)
<SteveA>   if person is None:
<SteveA>       # nobody is logged in
<SteveA>   else:
<SteveA>       # use person.languages or whatever
<daf> at the moment, I think (2) is appropriate for the pages we have
<SteveA> we probably want to change request/lp:person to return None if nobody is logged in
<SteveA> I don't know if it does that or not
<SteveA> So, let's add a bug!  in fact, let's add two
<SteveA> 1: check all uses of IPerson(request.principal) to see if they do something sensible when no-one is logged in
<SteveA> 2: check the implementation of request/lp:person to make sure it works right
<SteveA> I think there was some evil hard-coding of your name in the IPerson adapter code too :-)
<SteveA> so, perhaps we have 
<SteveA> 3: check that the IPerson adapter code is as it should be
<daf> the implementation returns None on the unathenticated princiapl
<SteveA> you can assign bugs 2 and 3 to me
<daf> I don't think Zope likes that
<SteveA> bug 1, I think you should do
<SteveA> you may be right.  I'd like to look at it closely.
<SteveA> add the bugs, and I'll go through the ones assigned to me.
<daf> ok
<daf> steve@z3u.com is your Bugzilla ID?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> justdave: we should look at changing these to canonical addresses
<SteveA> or allowing both/either
<SteveA> daf: so, with IPerson(request.principal, None), you should be able to proceed.
<SteveA> What else is blocking you?
<daf> the strange database error I was getting
<SteveA> bbiam. biobreak.
<daf> the software is willing, but the hardware is weak?
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1906
<justdave> SteveA: yeah, changing all to canonical.com addresses makes sense now that we have them.
<SteveA> justdave: perhaps suggest it on the warthogs list, then assuming no complaints, do it?
<SteveA> also, is it possible/easy to have a drop-down of people I can assign bugs to?
<SteveA> or get bugzilla to know about mail aliases, so I can just enter fabbione@canonical.com rather than fabbio.massimo.di.nitto@canonical.com as an assignee
* SteveA lets daf catch up with the filing of bugs
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1907
<justdave> SteveA: yeah, that was just added recently...  I need to upgrade it anyway to get the fixed search stuff (the "find a specific bug" search is partially broken at the moment)
<justdave> I'll turn on the drop-down boxes once I get it upgraded
<SteveA> justdave: when will you be doing the upgrade?
<justdave> depends on how involved it winds up being to do it and keep our local hacks.  I'll try it on a local copy here tonight, and if it goes off well, the ones on macquarie can probably get upgraded tonight or tomorrow.
<justdave> downtime is usually less than a minute if I have it prepared ahead of time, so most folks won't even notice, but I'll still post a time so people know to stay clear.
<SteveA> elmo: was there some talk about bugzilla moving from maquarie to somewhere else, so that bugzilla is running on a different machine to the app servers?
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1908
<daf> ok, done
<SteveA> daf: great
<SteveA> database problems?
<daf> es
<daf> yes
<daf> I can't recall the details now
<SteveA> not sure I have much to go on
<daf> I pasted it to the channel
<SteveA> do you keep logs?
<elmo> stevea: yes.  when we have the new servers
<SteveA> or we can get fabbionne's logs
<SteveA> elmo: when will that be?
<daf> 17:52 <daf> DatabaseException: unindexable object
<SteveA> elmo: (just approximately... out of interest)
<SteveA> daf: can you work out some instructions for reproducing that error?
<SteveA> that'll be the kind of thing that is easiest to investigate from the post-mortem debugger
<daf> once I can reproduce the error again, yes
<SteveA> if you can't reproduce it, then it is actually holding you up?
<spiv> carlos: pong
<spiv> daf: hat's probably a % quoting issue.
<daf> I could last reproduce it before I did a star-=merge which introduced these new bugs
<spiv> Try using %% instead.
<SteveA> hi andrew
<spiv> (cursor.execute does a '....' % params internally)
<spiv> SteveA: Good moprning.
<daf> spiv: hmm, could be
<daf> spiv: this was in a selectBy, IIRC
<spiv> daf: I got confused by that yesterday, which is why I know ;)
<SteveA> are % quoting issues listed on the SQLObject page on the wiki?
<SteveA> if not, someone who understands the issue should add a note there
<spiv> daf: Hmm, it might still trigger there (although if it did, it would be a bug in SQLObject)
<spiv> SteveA: Not yet, but good diea.
<spiv> idea, rather.
<daf> spiv: is this something that would be easy to check?
<SteveA> spiv: will you update the docs?
<spiv> daf: If I'm understanding your question, try putting '%' in a search form, and see what happens.
<spiv> SteveA: Yep
<SteveA> thanks
<daf> spiv: not a search form
<elmo> stevea: I don't know, I'm still in reseller hell, trying to get sabdfl friendly prices
<SteveA> oh, hp
<elmo> (and dell and ibm)
<SteveA> we should just become a reseller... and ship ubuntu pre-installed ;-)
<daf> spiv: I did enocunter this problem when I implemented our search
<daf> spiv: and found, through experiment, that using %% fixed it
<daf> this was a couple of weeks ago
<daf> this might be a similar problem
<SteveA> daf: when you find out something like that, do send an email to the list
<SteveA> then, we can all learn from that, and perhaps someone who knows the internals can comment on the best way to do it
<daf> SteveA: I thought it was an SQL weirdness rather than a Python weirdness
<daf> but yes, I shuold have emailed the list
<daf> spiv: I can't reproduce it right now, but I should be able to later
<daf> spiv: how's New York?
<daf> spiv: or have you already left?
<spiv> daf: This is a psycopg wierdness, I think.  Certainly not an SQL weirdness.
<spiv> daf: Here for one more night.
<SteveA> daf: I need to have another meeting about now.  Did we go through all the things blocking you?
<spiv> It's big and dirty :)
<daf> spiv: please give my regards to Mika
<daf> SteveA: I think so
<spiv> Ok.
<daf> SteveA: I need to go and have lunch anyhow
<daf> is Mako back there yet?
<SteveA> daf: ok.  Let's talk again in 2 or 3 hours
<daf> SteveA: let's
* SteveA goes to another meeting
<daf> spiv: dirtier than London? :)
<spiv> daf: Not yet.  He's apparently bouncing around DC and Seattle atm.
<daf> ah, right
<spiv> daf: Looks like it to me -- a dozen garbage bags at every street corner kind of dirty... but then, I didn't really see any of London apart from South Kensington. :)
<daf> well, London is mostly dirty through smog, I think
<daf> limi: what do you think?
<limi> yes, I think London is dirty ;)
<daf> dirty in what way?
<limi> carpetness, toilets, general hygiene
<limi> the city itself isn't that bad
<limi> it's the people ;)
<daf> heh
* limi offends 4 million people in one fell swoop
<limi> hehe
<daf> I mostly notice the air quality when I go there
<daf> limi: I thought it was 7 million? :)
<daf> it also has chewing-gum-encrusted-pavement syndrome, but that's common to lots of Britain
* daf -> lunch
<lalo> Porto Alegre is wet too
<lalo> hello all
<lalo> daf: yt?
<SteveA> hi lalo
<SteveA> daf has just gone to have lunch
<lalo> oh, ok
<SteveA> you have a bug assigned to you
<lalo> I can try to unearth this bug while he's eating
<SteveA> also, you might want to read the irc logs of the meeting earlier, or alternatively / additionally, look at the https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/RosettaAlpha page
<lalo> ok
* lalo screams @ gaim
<lulu> hi lalo - good to see you :o)
<lalo> hey lu
<SteveA> lalo: so, the first thing with that bug is to estimate it
<SteveA> then, test case (and maybe re-estimate after that)
<lalo> SteveA: the first thing, I believe, is finding it - I can't estimate if I don't know what will be involved in fixing
<SteveA> in that case, it is good to say "I'll spend X hours looking into it, then do an estimate"
<SteveA> this makes the work more visible to others
<lalo> ok
<SteveA> if you haven't got to a good point after X hours, then we (you, me, daf) need to talk about it
<SteveA> we might need a different approach / look for the problem in a different place
<lalo> that's 1h, I suppose.
<lalo> but not immediatly - I'll start after I'm done with the logs
<SteveA> logs?
<SteveA> oh, right
<SteveA> actually, read the wiki page,
<SteveA> and I'll email you the relevant portion of the logs
<lalo> already did the wiki page
<lalo> and the logs are not too big
<spiv> daf: mika says hi :)
<SteveA> ok
<carlos> wow, a really big log since I went to have lunch. I'm in sync now
<carlos> SteveA: I saw the comment about the check for logged and non logged people, is the +login page working now?
<SteveA> sorry, not yet.
<carlos> spiv: I fixed the problem I had already, but it's interesting to know how could I work with tables that does not have an "id" field (to do Object.select(...) and Object.selectBy(...))
<carlos> SteveA: hmm, then if it's not logged, I will hardcode a person. Ok? 
<SteveA> carlos: can you do it as a query string?
<SteveA>   page?personid=123
<spiv> carlos: SQLobject requires an "id" field.
<SteveA> that's a temporary way to move forward
<spiv> (it allows you to call it something else if you really want, and has ver ylimited support for non-integer id fields, but the existence of a unique id for a row is fundamental to how it works)
<carlos> SteveA: will it be done in the future that way?
<SteveA> no
<carlos> spiv: Then, look at TranslationEffortPOTemplate table
<carlos> spiv: I'm not able to work with it (is not important now, so we don't need to find a solution for "now")
<spiv> carlos: Ok, that table needs to be fixed then.
<spiv> I think there's a handful of others.
* spiv mails the list
<carlos> I "fixed" the problem with the table PersonLabel using RelatedJoin's add and delete methods, in fact it's the correct way to do it, but with the that other table, we have an extra field I need to be able to fetch
<carlos> SteveA: then? I think it's easier if I detect that the person is not logged to just forge Daf's user until you have your code in place
<SteveA> ok, whichever works best for you
<daf> SteveA: any idea what could be causing this error?
<daf> NotFoundError: (<RosettaProject at 0xb41ef5ec>, 'title')
<SteveA> from that, no
<SteveA> I need to pop out for a short while.
<SteveA> mail me if you want me to look into something
<daf> it's an error from a simple TAL expression in the translation template
<daf> SteveA: ok
<carlos> daf: As I saw, we are using then bugzilla as our bts?
<daf> yes
<carlos> ok
<lalo> daf: hello world
<carlos> lalo: you are alive! :-P
<lalo> daf: glad to see we have separate interfaces now. However I do believe either:
<lalo> a. that one method needs to be in the "broader" messageset interface, as it applies to anything you might want to import
<lalo> b. OR, I could special-case pot-sets in the import adapter, if you think that's cleaner
<carlos> daf: I'm going to fix the login problem, if it's someone logged in, we use that info, if it's an anonymous, I will use your user preferences
<carlos> daf: as soon as SteveA finish it, we could just remove the hardcoded person and redirect to the login page or show anonymous data
<carlos> daf: is that ok for you?
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> there is already some code to do it so seems like we only need the hardcoded value to be able to test rosetta
<lalo> augh. I won't be able to reproduce this bug today :-/
<lalo> well, I suppose I can find it even if I don't reproduce it
<daf> lalo: hmm, it happened for me when I ran the import ftests repeatedly
<daf> lalo: I don't object to having methods both for PO sets and POT sets
<daf> lalo: but I can't see how this method applies to POT sets
<lalo> well
<lalo> I'm not sure :-)
<lalo> if I try to think whether it does conceptually apply, I get mixed feelings
<lalo> but I think it's a choice of having an ugly special case in the method OR an ugly special case in the caller code
<lalo> in this case I think moving the special case to the caller code is the better choice
<daf> I agree
<lalo> do you have 30m to help me find my bug? I still can't run postgres on this machine (bought RAM, but had a technical problem with it, so it will only be in production tomorrow)
* lalo running a totally duct-tape-and-chewing-gum GUI setup right now :-P
<daf> hmm, that sucks
<lalo> if you can help, great - if not, I ask leave to fix that bug tomorrow
<lalo> (assuming we can find other things for me to do today)
<lalo> I have a pretty good feeling about where the bug originates from... seems to be an odd interaction with your refactorings
<SteveA> lalo: could you debug on the "rosetta" machine if you had an account there?
<lalo> SteveA: yes
<lalo> is the database in that machine breakable?
<daf> if we give you access to it, yes :)
<lalo> def breakable(self): return not self.important()
<daf> I know what you meant :)
<daf> yes, it's ok if it's broken
<SteveA> we can ask the admins to give lalo an account
<SteveA> then he can run a rosetta in his account on the same port the devel server uses, and temporarily stop using the devel server
<SteveA> alternatively, lalo could experiment on the devel server
<daf> or we could make Apache mirror more ports, so we can have multiple servers running simultaneously
<daf> s/mirror/proxy/
<SteveA> this is just for this week, say until monday
<SteveA> let's keep the changes to a minimum
<lalo> have to figure out if it's worth it - if it takes more than a few hours I'd better wait for my new mobo and work locally
<SteveA> we can simply ask the admins to give lalo an account for 1 week.  then you can change permissions to allow lalo to diddle with the devel server.
<SteveA> daf: it's up to you to choose what you think will work best.
* daf ponders
* lalo misses London
<daf> let's give lalo an account on rosetta, modify the permissions on the development server, and give him database access
<SteveA> daf: mail admins@admins, and ping elmo
<SteveA> oh, I just did ping elmo
* lalo decides to refactor the method daf doesn't like while we wait
<daf> email sent
<lalo> daf: since we're currently using the same class for both, what should I do if the method is called on a pot-set? raise?
<daf> +        if self.poFile is None:
<daf> +            raise RuntimeError(
<daf> +                "This method cannot be used with PO template message sets!")
<daf> is what I'vebeen doing
<lalo> ok
<lalo> also: since we now have a separate interface, shouldn't we probably add a method that returns the corresponding pot-set?  and if yes, what should it be called?  maybe self.templateMessageSet()?
<daf> if that would be useful, yes
<lalo> ok, will do
<daf> it might be useful to have a POTemplateMessageSet.copyToPOFile(language)
<daf> can you think of any disadvantages to having two separate tables?
<lalo>         if self.poFile is not None:
<lalo>             raise RuntimeError, """This method cannot be used with PO template
<lalo>                 message sets!"""
<lalo> broken :-P I'll fix
<daf> if not, we should move to two mesage set tables after the alpha has begun
<daf> (I don't want to cause too much disruption now)
<lalo> despite the different methods? well, it would be an useful optimization if the po-set stored a reference to the pot-set; and if this was done, I suppose some fields can be eliminated (primemsgid maybe)
<daf> despite? because of!
<lalo> sorry
<lalo> s/despite/apart from/ :-P
<daf> and it's not really an optimisation thing, it's a design thing
<lalo> I think (not sure) I meant "besides"
<carlos> lalo: primemsgid is also used to prevent duplicated msgid, I don't think we should remove it
<daf> we wouldn't have to have these checks in the code
<lalo> I'm not sure which is worse, disruption now or after the alpha
<carlos> I don't think we should do it for the alpha
<daf> I think primemsgid is a useful optimisation
<lalo> I mean removing primemsgid from the po-set table
<lalo> it doesn't need that information - it will be unique on (pot-set, language)
<carlos> hmmm, right
<daf> does every PO file message set have a template message set?
<carlos> I thought you was thinking on nuke it completely
<lalo> daf: not currently, but if we split the tables, I think it would be good to enforce that
<daf> does that cope with obsolete messages?
<carlos> daf: not always, but I thought that the split will move the msgid to potemplates and the msgstr to the pofile one
<carlos> daf: not really, we could add them to the potemplate
<lalo> currently if you import a fresh pot&po (meaning, the database never had a previous version of these), then the obsolete po-sets will have no corresponding pot-sets
<daf> right
<carlos> I thought that the idea behind the split is that the msgid will be only with potemplates and msgstr with pofiles...
<lalo> but if we had separate tables, then I'd vote on creating a pot-set automagically for it, with sequence=0
<daf> the idea behind the split is this: we have two different kinds of message sets: ones from templates, and ones from PO files
<daf> they have different attributes and methods
<daf> given this, it's silly to squeeze them both into one table/class
<daf> I wasn't thinking any further than that
<daf> we would clone the existing table definition, and delte the attributes that don't apply
<carlos> ok, then we should only duplicate the tables and add an extra field that points the pofile ones to the potemplate ones
<carlos> and that's all
<lalo> if you asked me as a consultant, I'd say: think carefully, and if you're going to split, split before the alpha. After that it will be too disruptive.
<daf> e.g. POTemplateMsgSet wouldnot have a pofile attribute
<daf> nor a fuzzy attribute
<daf> nor an obsolete atribute
<daf> etc.
<daf> I would prefer to make this change after tha alpha
<daf> rationale:
<lalo> specially since, after the beta, you'll already have data in the database, and would therefore have to come up with a script to migrate it if you split the tables
<daf> we want to implement the functionality necessary for the alpha as quickly as possible
<daf> once this is done, we can do some cleaning up
<daf> this change would be a cleaning-up change
<daf> data from the alpha is not precious
<carlos> daf: that's ok for me, and also, I think we should do it after the alpha. We should finish the alpha as soon as possible we have only 15 days to finish the alpha + beta process and start in production mode, we cannot delay the alpha
<daf> so it doesn't matter too much if we break things
<carlos> lalo: we will only migrate the user accounts information, nothing more
<lalo> I think you misunderstand me
<lalo> after the alpha goes live, we'll have real message sets in the db
<carlos> lalo: but will be deleted when we move to beta
<daf> yes
<lalo> sorry
<daf> but we won't keep them
<daf> and the testers will know this
<lalo> if you're proposing to make this change between alpha and beta, then you're crazy :-)
<daf> any translations they make they want to keep, they will have to export as PO
<lalo> if you don't make it before the alpha, you have to make it *during* the alpha
<daf> doing it before the alpha will delay things too much
<carlos> lalo: that's the point, we put the alpha in place and then, we do the needed changes and at the same time the betatesters are playing already with rosetta
<lalo> yup
<daf> no, we want to finish this change before the beta starts
<carlos> lalo: different database
<lalo> but then we need to put the new status quo live for testing *during* the alpha, not when we switch to beta
<carlos> daf: ok, alphatesters :-P
<lalo> and therefore we have to migrate the existing message sets
<daf> no
<daf> just delte everything and start again
<daf> database changes aside, how much code would we need to change?
<lalo> difficult question
<lalo> would you like me to make a formal estimate?
<daf> anything that refers to a message set, I suppose
<lalo> (sounds like a perfectly reasonable use of my time while I wait for investigating the bug)
<daf> yes, an estimate would be useful
<lalo> not necessarily EVERYthing - I suppose a good portion of the code will still just work
<daf> well, anything which refers to it by name will need to change
<lalo> my poor importer will suffer :-P but it will be for the better
<daf> for great justice! :)
<lalo> yes, but BRM makes that point-and-clicky
<carlos> daf: I think the database modifications are still lost, that means that we will not store new data from rosetta and that means that we have a serious problem....
<carlos> modifications from rosetta
<daf> lost?
<daf> you mean not committed to the database?
<carlos> daf: they are never committed
<carlos> yes
<daf> I haven't merged my changes which do that yet
<carlos> daf: you have a fix?
<daf> because they still have some bugs
<daf> well, it's not implemented in the rocketfuel version at all
<carlos> I'm not talking about translations
<daf> oh
<carlos> daf: I just executed some methods to remove rows
<carlos> and they are not anymore on the user interface
<carlos> but the database still have them 
<daf> hrmph
* carlos activating the log to confirm the problem 
<carlos> daf: exactly, the delete is there but the commit is never done
<carlos> spiv: ?
<spiv> carlos: Hmm.
<spiv> You've turned on the SQLObject debugging?
<carlos> spiv: I don't think so, how could I do it?
<carlos> I have activated the postgresql log for the statements
<carlos> that's why I know the delete was executed, but was not committed
<daf> carlos: your copies of sqlobject and sqlos are up-to-date?
<carlos> daf: yes, I updated them about 1 hour ago, when I remember that Stuart did some fixes
<carlos> but the problem is still there
<carlos> Now, rosetta shows always the correct values, but as soon as it's stopped, the changes are lost
<spiv> carlos: The easiest way is to edit sqlobject/dbconnection.py atm, line 28.
<spiv> Some day we'll turn that into a config option somehow.
<carlos> ok
<carlos> where could I see the debug info?
<spiv> It'll print it to stderr, iirc.
<carlos> yes, it does it
<carlos> daf: I know why the language query is so slow...
<carlos> getUtility(ILanguages)
<carlos> expands to more than 600 selects
<carlos> one for every row Language table has
<daf> ouch
<daf> I think we can make that faster
<daf> oh, hmm
<daf> ok, I can't see why it's doing that
<daf> spiv: any idea?
<spiv> daf: Are you building 600 seperate RosettaLanguage objects?
<carlos> I iterate over all languages, but I suppose it should not be the problem...
<carlos> spiv: yes
<carlos> is that the problem?
<daf> spiv: not just by instantiating RosettaLanguaages, no
<carlos> daf: I iterate over all languages 
<spiv> daf: RosettaLanguages.keys()
<carlos> to create a list
<daf> carlos: ah
<daf> that's why, then
<carlos> but that's crazy!!
<spiv> Really, SQLObject ought to be smart enough to do that in one query.
<spiv> But I don't think it is yet.
<daf> perhaps we should have ILanguages.__list__()
<daf> so we can do
<daf> for language in list(languages):
<spiv> daf: eh, __list__ isn't a python magic method
<spiv> You're perhaps thinking of __iter__.
<daf> erm
<spiv> Or maybe keys ;)
<daf> :)
<daf> I think I was thinking of __iter__ :)
<carlos> look, I'm using it this way:
<carlos> for code in allLanguages.keys():
<carlos>             if allLanguages[code]  in interestedLanguages:
<carlos>                 selected = True
<carlos>             else:
<carlos>                 selected = False
<carlos> and allLanguages = getUtility(ILanguages)
<carlos> interestedLanguages is a python list of Languages
<spiv> Ah, it's the lazyColumns attribute that's the problem, maybe...
<spiv> Hmm, no, that defaults to False.
<carlos> spiv: the SQLObjects only show lots of QueryOne and some QueryAll but nothing more
<carlos> (about the database modifications problem)
<spiv> carlos: No COMMITs or ROLLBACKs?
<carlos> no
<daf> carlos: how about this:
<spiv> Hmm.
<daf> for code in [ x.code for x in interestedLanguages ] :
<daf>     foo(allLanguages[code] )
<daf> hmm, frob was probably a better metasyntactic variable than from there
<carlos> daf: I need to list all languages
<daf> oh, I see
<daf> for now, I think the best thing would be to add ILanugages.__iter__
<daf> for language in allLanguages:
<daf>     if language in interestedLanguages:
<daf>         # ...
<spiv> daf: Well, SQLObject is supposed to fetch everything at once when approriate.
<daf> spiv: I think "supposed to" is the important part here :)
<carlos> X-)
<spiv> daf: Well, I'll spend a few more minutes looking at the code, to see if I can figure out why it's not :)
<daf> spiv: thanks :)
<carlos> but please, give more priority to the problem updating DB data, we cannot start the alpha phase without that 
<spiv> carlos: Good point.
<spiv> I've got an up-to-date rocketfuel checkout; how do I reproduce this?
<spiv> (I'm not very familiar with rosetta)
<carlos> spiv: the easier way:
<carlos> make launchpad_test at launchpad/database/schema
<carlos> make run
<spiv> Got that too ;)
<carlos> visit http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/translator
<carlos> the skin++Debug could be removed
<carlos> and after some seconds you will get a list of languages
<carlos> deselect one (for instance, Welsh) and submit it
<carlos> the PeopleLabel table should be updated
<carlos> but it's not 
<carlos> spiv: but wait, you will need some of my local changes
<carlos> I will commit them  now
<carlos> spiv: and don't select a new language, only deselect it, the addition feature is not working and you will get an error :-)
<spiv> Ok, thanks.
<carlos> merge request sent
<SteveA> looking in sqlos/transaction/__init__.py, I don't see the fixes stu and I made in there
<SteveA> ok, I just updated, and they're there
<SteveA> carlos: do you have an up-to-date sqlos ?
<carlos> yes
<SteveA>     def prepare(self, txn):
<SteveA>         if self.prepared:
<SteveA>             raise TypeError('Already prepared')
<SteveA>         self.prepared = True
<SteveA>         self._checkTransaction(txn)
<SteveA>         self.transaction = txn
<SteveA>         self.state += self.delta
<SteveA>         if self.objects:
<SteveA>             for obj in self.objects:
<SteveA>                 obj.sync()
<SteveA>         return True
<carlos> same code here
<SteveA> ok
<carlos> spiv: my code is now at rocketfuel
<spiv> carlos: Yes, I saw, grabbing now..
<spiv> Whee, lots of options :)
<carlos> spiv: go to the end of the page
<carlos> spiv: limi will "fix" it
<spiv> Ok, I see the bug.
<spiv> Now I need to obey workrave for 10 minutes :)
<spiv> Then I'll dig deeper.
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> the blinky red oblong of doom
<lalo> woot, freshmeat is borked :-P
* lalo trying to check "the other rosetta" but freshmeat seems to be having... issues
<carlos> lalo: works here
<lalo> I get "Error connecting to MySQL Server."
<carlos> I'm behind a transparent proxy, perhaps that's the "problem"
<lalo> yeah, you may be getting a cached copy
<lalo> daf: my refactoring just reached rocketfuel, when you have a few minutes please check if it's sufficient
<lalo> argh
<lalo> no it didn't :-P I forgot to add the auto-mirror hook to my arch setup
<lalo> brb
<carlos> lalo: #!/bin/sh
<carlos> if [ "$1" == "commit" ] ; then
<carlos>         tla push-mirror $ARCH_ARCHIVE $ARCH_CATEGORY
<carlos> fi
<lalo> thanks
<carlos> .arch-params/hook
<daf> no, that's buggy
<carlos> $HOME/.arch-params/hook
<daf> there is no ARCH_REVISION
<daf> #!/bin/sh
<daf> if test "$1" = "commit"; then
<daf>         ARCH_CATEGORY=`tla parse-package-name -c $ARCH_REVISION`
<daf>         tla archive-mirror $ARCH_ARCHIVE $ARCH_CATEGORY
<daf> fi
<carlos> daf: that's what I have since our meeting at London...
<daf> you probably copied it from me before I fixed mine :)
<carlos> but it works...
<daf> er, sorry
<lalo> having experimented with working both ways, I think I prefer not to have the hook
<daf> carlos: sure, but it won't limit the mirroring properly
<carlos> ok
<daf> since ARCH_CATEGORY will be ""
<lalo> an average once a week I want to "undo" a commit, and auto-mirror makes that painful.  I prefer mirroring in the script that submits to pqm.
<lalo> (which right now I don't have either :-( but I can fix that after work hours)
<daf> lalo: bad commits don't matter, because they're not merged to rocketfuel automatically
<daf> I often make mistakes, but it doesn't matter because I susually catch them before they go to rocketfuel
<lalo> yup
<carlos> daf: ok, hook fixed. I suppose that if it fails (network problems) I will need to execute the push by hand
<lalo> the problem lies not in rocketfuel, but in the way I prefer to deal with those mistakes :-)
<daf> mirroring when you merge is probably more efficient, though
<lalo> if I'm not mirrored I can just delete the revision; if I'm mirrored, deleting a revision becomes dangerous
<daf> call the arch police!
<daf> lalo is deleting revisiosn!
<carlos> X-)
<lalo> :-)
<lalo> ok, *now* it's merged
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> is possible to get a segmentation fault with python??
<carlos> wow
<spiv> carlos: It's not supposed to be, but there are buggy extension modules...
<carlos> I think it should be psycopg
<carlos> Is the only change I did to that script
<lalo> import massdestruction; massdestruction.segfault()
<lalo> oh, freshmeat is working again. "The other rosetta" seems to be abandoned...
<carlos> lalo: yes, it is
<SteveA> I had a chat with mark about login names and traversing people's names
<SteveA> any objections to using email addresses as login ids?
<lalo> is it the plan that I can login using any of my verified addresses?
<SteveA> yes
<lalo> and - with the same password?
<SteveA> yes
<carlos> SteveA: it's ok for me
<lalo> sounds ok. Can I request that an address is verified *without* logging in?
<SteveA> out of scope for this conversation
<lalo> well, as an user, I'd be ok with using the email as a login, IF that condition is true
<SteveA> here's mark's suggestion of how to do traversing people's names
<SteveA> there should be a person's nickname in the context of a particular project
<SteveA> so, jeff could be jdub in the context of gnome, but I could be the ubuntu jdub
<SteveA> as a silly example
<cprov> SteveA: do you mean: http://people.ubuntu.com/markshuttleworth@hbd.com ?
<daf> lalo: did you finish that estimate?
<SteveA> this avoids the political problems of trying to be the one unified namespace of nicknames
<debonzi> SteveA, why not a unique username for login and traversing?
<lalo> daf: no, I'm working on it - just started a few minutes ago, as I understood (perhaps wrongly) that you wanted that refactoring first
<daf> lalo: I wanted the refactoring first
<daf> :)
<SteveA> debonzi: that will put us in the position of making a single namespace for people's names in the world of open source
<SteveA> that's an awkward position to be in
<lalo> another thing that's out of scope now but I'd really like to stay on record: future phases of Rosetta *need* that one email address is "preferred" for a person; it's ok if it's "preferred" in the context of a project or product. We need this to insert email addresses in exported headers.
<kiko> SteveA, not really. sf.net does the same.
<SteveA> lalo: file a bug
<lalo> ok
<SteveA> sf.net sucks :)
<SteveA> and, I always forget my login to sf.net
* lalo has seen people using {sf,slashdot,advogato} usernames as UIDs
<SteveA> I don't forget my email addresses
<cprov> SteveA: huh
<kiko> that's beyond the point -- the idea is a possible one.
<kiko> and much less prone to complexity than using email addresses.
* lalo takes half an hour off - too confused to make this estimate
<cprov> SteveA: let's setup the technical details, again: http://people.ubuntu.com/markshuttleworth@hbd.com, should it work for us ?
<kiko> I really think using emails is going to make things complex.
<kiko> I see no problem with people.ubuntu.com/kiko 
<kiko> and first-come-first-served.
<SteveA> there are two separate issues here
<SteveA> 1. login ids
<SteveA> 2. traversing names in the system
<kiko> if you forget your sf.net address, hey, you can always ask to be reminded of it.
<kiko> SteveA, yes, but merging them is a really good idea.
<lalo> yes. I find login-by-email awkward, but bugzilla and passport have proven it viable
<carlos> kiko: how?, if you don't know you login name...
<kiko> carlos, enter your email address and ask to be reminded.
<kiko> lalo, ask justdave about the problems with having email as login.
<lalo> I don't need to - I don't like it :-P
<carlos> I prefer it, look at drupal or jabber :-)
<lalo> but I think it's viable - if that's what is decided, I can live with it. That's what I'm saying.
<kiko> oh, we can live with anything!
<lalo> carlos: jabber does *not* log in by email
<kiko> that's not the point here. we're looking for a *good* solution
<carlos> lalo: log in with an email like token
<lalo> carlos: not really
<lalo> carlos: you log in with an username, which is unique in the context of the server you're logging in to
<carlos> kiko: I gave you examples of good solutions :-)
<SteveA> the issue of login id is not important right now
<SteveA> it will not hold up anyone's work
<SteveA> let's talk about traversing people
<cprov> SteveA: that is my point ...
<SteveA> thanks celso
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<SteveA> so, mark's suggestion would be that http://people.ubuntu.com/mark (or something like it) should work
<kiko> okay.
<kiko> is that all?
<debonzi> SteveA, and it is not a unique username?
* lalo goes shower
<SteveA> but, http://people.ubuntu.com/mark may be a different mark than http://soyuz.fedora.org/people/mark
<kiko> hmmmm
<cprov> SteveA: xii
<kiko> distro-specific usernames?
<SteveA> project-specific
<cprov> SteveA: mark == givenname ?
<SteveA> xii ?
<SteveA> mark == nickname
<kiko> distro-specific, SteveA -- from your example.
<kiko> ubuntu and fedora would be different namespaces.
<SteveA> is fedora not a project?
<kiko> it's a distribution; I have no idea what a project is in the soyuz context. we don't use it.
<SteveA> http://soyuz.gnome.org/people/mark
<kiko> huh?
<kiko> soyuz.gnome.org?!
<SteveA> that's why I didn't give it as an example
<spiv> SteveA: This is the first I've heard of a soyuz.$project.name.domainname
<kiko> thanks spiv.
<spiv> s/\.name//
<SteveA> but, rosetta.gnome.org/people/mark
<kiko> I have *never* been told anything about soyuz.gnome.org.
<SteveA> it was an example to illustrate the pattern
<SteveA> forget the "soyuz" part
<SteveA> and read "canonicalapp." instead
<kiko> the only thing we agreed upon was soyuz.${distro.name}...
<kiko> hmmm.
<SteveA> this issue is not just for soyuz
<spiv> kiko: Actually, soyuz.${distro.domainname} (just a nitpick :)
<kiko> right :)
<kiko> I'm right now at a loss as to what should be done here and now then.
<SteveA> to get things going for the soyuz sprint, I suggest using person int ids
<kiko> is soyuz/people different from rosetta/people or are we going to have a global people?
<SteveA> and we'll discuss these issues at the sprint
* kiko shrugs
<SteveA> we have global people
<kiko> okay.
<cprov> I fell mayself totally lost on it
<SteveA> let me put it another way:
<SteveA> * we have global people
<spiv> SteveA: Well, more generally, this is the first I've heard of canonicalapp.${project.domainname} :)
<kiko> spiv, same here.
<SteveA> * we want nice nicknames for people when traversing urls for them
<SteveA> * we don't want a global namespace of nicknames.  people are called different things in different contexts.
<SteveA> * for soyuz, a context is a distro
<SteveA> * let's not change anything in the database just now
<SteveA> spiv: you've heard of rosetta.gnome.org, surely?
<spiv> SteveA: I might have.  I can certainly imagine it more easily than soyuz.gnome.org :)
<kiko> I'm having a hard time believing we won't have a global namespace of nicknames.
<kiko> if these tools are going to have the integration we want them to have I am going to be really mad
<kiko> if I'm called creis in malone and kiko in soyuz and christian.reis in rosetta.
<kiko> it's like kicking the user in the nuts <wink>
<SteveA> we like kicking users in the nuts :-)
<SteveA> it is limi's job to stop us short
<spiv> SteveA: Anyway, I'm a little torn here.  What you're proposing certainly would work, but the inherent complexity of having multiple aliases for the same thing makes me nervous.
<SteveA> indeed
<kiko> my proposal is
* limi|nearby brings out the baseball bat
<kiko> - front a global namespace
<SteveA> so, that's why we do nothing but think about it now
<kiko> - have a global people/ thing
<limi|nearby> nice little system you have here - too bad if something should... happen to it.
<kiko> - use the nicks as logins and as traversal strings
<kiko> - have people sent their login data via email if they forget it
<kiko> - enjoy life while it lasts
<kiko> everything here is superlative, I can't believe we're worried about being a global namespace when freshmeat, slashdot *and* sf.net do it.
<spiv> Although, we're resigned to having multiple names for things already -- even with the same nick, we'd have soyuz.ubuntu.org/..../spiv and rosetta.gnome.org/..../spiv  (whatever .... might be).
<cprov> I agree with kiko in this point, why can't we use a plain unique login name ?
* kiko doesn't think there should be problem with first-come-first-served logins dealt out.
<kiko> spiv, that's a lot better than soyuz.ubuntu.org/.../spiv showing your bug console as malone.ubuntu.org/.../andrewb 
<kiko> and it's going to keep both developers and users sane.
<SteveA> until the soyuz sprint, logins are emails, and the soyuz team can make the best of what we have for traversing people.
<spiv> kiko: If you ask Mark, I'm sure he'd say we're planning on being bigger than freshmeat, slashdot and sf.net combined ;)
<SteveA> we can't sanely change until then
* kiko shrugs
<kiko> spiv, I know, though that doesn't necessarily mean a unique login is a bad thing (nor that it will be easy beating slashdot's # of registered users -- considering what type of site /. is and what launchpad is).
<cprov> ok, we have an end point, traverse by email ...accepted !
<spiv> SteveA: I'm certainly ok with logins as emails as a starting point.  It's not hard to move to allowing nicks as well later, if that's what we decide.
<kiko> cprov, he said traverse by whatever you feel is acceptable.
<kiko> as long as you don't change the DB
<SteveA> make it "work" now.  make it "really good" at the sprint.
<cprov> kiko: I traverse the ID in the current release ... so, it's done 
<kiko> aham.
<SteveA> cprov: maybe file a bug in bugzilla to say that traversing by person id is a "bug" just now, and we'll work out how we want to do it at the soyuz sprint ?
<cprov> SteveA: I will do so 
<SteveA> thanks
<kiko> SteveA, there's an interesting paper in ACM Interactions (May/June2004) that talks about competitions in open environments, it might be interesting to harness this for triages and bugfixes and other things that can be done competitively and collaboratively.
<kiko> I read it yesterday evening
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> post a summary to warthogs@ perhaps?  or a link if it is availalbe?
<kiko> maybe a summary if I find some time, I'm pretty sure a link is only available to ACM dl members.
<SteveA> or just the existence?  I think others on the team will be ACM members, especially USians
<kiko> okay. will do that then.
<spiv> carlos: Still tracking down the uncommitted delete transaction bug, but I've found out more about the performance while I was there ;)
<spiv> carlos: Turns out that the RosettaLanguages.keys() is doing the right thing, and issuing the one query -- it's the repeated calls to __getitem__ after that causes all the little selects.
<spiv> And SQLObject's cache doesn't help, because it's keyed by the id column, but __getitem__ looks up by the code column.
<spiv> (But code is marked as a unique column, so maybe it's not hard to make SQLObject a little smarter here)
* daf is very pleased to find that you can type "vim sftp://host/some/file" and it does what he means
<daf> spiv: aha
<daf> spiv: yes, that seems like a nice optimisation to make
<daf> spiv: I noticed on the sqlobject tracker on sourceforge that you've been the most active but reporter of late :)
<daf> s/but/g
<daf> grr
<daf> s/but/bug/
* lalo is going into DHM - if you need me, make gaim beep
<cprov> daf: Does https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/ still working ?
<lalo> (not really DHM, more like "deep estimate mode", but that doesn't exist ;-) you get my point)
<daf> cprov: apparently not :)
<cprov> daf: tks ...
<daf> cprov: try now
<kiko> daf, how is that updated?
<daf> kiko: basically:
<cprov> daf: really tks now :)
<daf> while true:
<daf>     update launchpad
<daf>     start launchpad
<daf>     sleep 30m
<daf>     kill launchpad
<daf> 
<daf> problem is, it stops when starting launchpad fails
<daf> usually because of a bad commit
<daf> I should probably make it more fault-tolerant
<daf> by the way, what do the Soyuz team think of their logo?
<kiko> yeah.
<kiko> I like it, at least. :)
<cprov> I like it too :)
<daf> thanks :)
<kiko> you're the unknown author?!
<kiko> "made in wales<tm>"?
<kiko> "proudly made in wales" perhaps
<daf> guilty as charged :)
<daf> actually, made in Mark's flat...
<kiko> nice going
<spiv> Yeah, it's good :)
<daf> actually, Wales has been dry and sunny
<daf> weird
<lalo> we have quite a few txt files in our source tree - shouldn't we get rid of them?
<daf> why?
<cprov> daf: btw, can you update the current DB used on https://rosetta... ?
<daf> > find -name '*.txt'
<daf> ./scripts/rosetta-cmdline.txt
<daf> ./no-notes-yet.txt
<daf> ./poexport.txt
<daf> no-notes-yet is a bit old, but still pertinent
<cprov> daf: just wait my last commit on arch-commits ... 
<daf> cprov: sure
<lalo> the ones that are pertinent should be in the wiki, no?
<daf> cprov: ok, let me know when
<lalo> in fact I think they all are
<daf> poexport.txt isn't
<lalo> amazing... we don't have code to export templates at all :-P
<cprov> daf: that's it .. I'm becoming borring :)
<daf> poexport.txt (in theory, anyhow) is implementation documentation, and therefore belongs with the implementation
<daf> lalo: I was thinking of asking you to write a poimpot.txt
<daf> something code-oriented rather than requirements-oriented
<lalo> well, if there is such a thing as docs that belong in the source tree, I'll move them all into their own subdir
<daf> that's fine
<daf> doc/
<daf> ?
<lalo> docs alongside code look awkward to me :-)
<lalo> doc or docs - I think since we have "tests", "templates", "scripts" then we should have "docs"
<daf> the idea is that it's easier to keep both in sync when you have them in the same place
<daf> (code and docs)
<daf> lalo: either is fine -- I was probably thinking of /usr/share/doc or something
<daf> cprov: done
<lalo> and - are we supposed to have code to export a template?
<lalo> I honestly don't remember, but I thought we did have it and we don't
<cprov> daf: i would say done now, thanks anyway 
<daf> cprov: oh, oops :)
<daf> cprov: right, done again :)
<cprov> daf: it rocks :)
<daf> cprov: you're welcome
<lalo> daf: just mailed the launchpad list
<kiko> lalo, ns estamos de mal ou seu email quebrou? :)
<lalo> kiko: doesn't look like we're on the same charset
<daf> lalo: obrigado
<lalo> daf: de nada
<kiko> lalo, or on the same brainwavelength apparently
#launchpad 2004-09-14
<carlos> spiv: ok, thanks for look at it :-)
<carlos> people, good night
<limi|busy> daf?
<daf> limi|busy?
* limi|busy might have figured it out ;)
<limi|busy> give me 20 seconds, and we'll know
<limi|busy> Module canonical.rosetta.browser, line 75, in products
<limi|busy> total = product.messageCount()
<limi|busy> ForbiddenAttribute: ('messageCount', <Product at 0x
<limi|busy> latest merges from rocketfuel
<limi|busy> re-built DB
<limi|busy> daf: this is when accessing the GNOME project in Rosetta
<daf> bah
<daf> can you give the complete last line of the error message?
<limi|busy> yes
<limi|busy> Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 311, in interpret
<limi|busy> handlers[opcode] (self, args)
<limi|busy> Module zope.tal.talinterpreter, line 723, in do_loop_tal
<limi|busy> iterator = self.engine.setRepeat(name, expr)
<limi|busy> Module zope.tales.tales, line 687, in setRepeat
<limi|busy> it = self._engine.iteratorFactory(name, expr, self)
<limi|busy> Module zope.tales.tales, line 109, in __init__
<limi|busy> self._next = i.next()
<limi|busy> Module canonical.rosetta.browser, line 75, in products
<limi|busy> total = product.messageCount()
<limi|busy> ForbiddenAttribute: ('messageCount', <Product at 0x38292d0
<limi|busy> >
<limi|busy> )
<limi|busy> :)
<daf> hmm
<limi|busy> daf: any idea what it could be?
<daf> a bug?
<spiv> Gah.
<daf> I don't understand it
<spiv> SteveA: Around?
<daf> spiv: I suspect not, given his timezone
<spiv> daf: Ah, ok.  I've no idea what time it is anywhere anymore ;)
<limi|busy> time zones are for wimps
<daf> spiv: :)
<daf> limi|busy: ah, I think I see what's going on
<limi|busy> ok
* limi|busy rearranges Stuff
<daf> limi|busy: in lib/canonical/rosetta/browser.py
<spiv> daf: Anyway, I *may* have found the cause of carlos's bug.
<daf> spiv: the mystery of the missing END?
<limi|busy> daf: do continue ;)
<limi|busy> the suspense is killing me
<limi|busy> ;)
<daf> --- orig/lib/canonical/rosetta/browser.py
<daf> +++ orig/lib/canonical/rosetta/browser.py
<limi|busy> there's a conflict that got merged?
<daf> @@ -58,3 +58,3 @@
<daf>           person = IPerson(self.request.principal, None)
<daf>           if person is not None:
<limi|busy> daf, the manual diffing machine
<daf>               for language in person.languages():
<daf> -                 yield LanguageProducts(language, self.context.products)
* daf gives up
<limi|busy> remove that line and...
<daf> add this one:
<daf>                 yield LanguageProducts(language, self.context.rosettaProducts)
<daf> well, give that a try and see if it fixes it
<limi|busy> testing
<daf> oh, Friday
<limi|busy> lovely Friday
<limi|busy> daf: same error
<limi|busy> or; similar
<limi|busy> Module zope.tales.tales, line 109, in __init__
<limi|busy> self._next = i.next()
<limi|busy> Module canonical.rosetta.browser, line 75, in products
<limi|busy> total = product.messageCount()
<limi|busy> ForbiddenAttribute: ('messageCount', <Product at 0x3843750>)
* limi|busy still wonders why nobody else sees these
<daf> hmmm
<daf> limi|busy: I'm trying to reproduce this error locally
<limi|busy> ok
* limi|busy goes back to the prefs form tweaking
<spiv> daf: Yep, I definitely know why carlos's thiing isn't being committed.
<spiv> daf: What I don't know is what the right way to fix that is :)
* spiv goes to think about it over dinner
<daf> spiv: another sqlobject/slos bug?
<limi|busy> carlos does insane things to ZPT at times :] 
<limi|busy> daf: any idea where the actual language list is coming from?
<limi|busy> ie. which file is it in?
<limi|busy> or does it grab it from the system?
<limi|busy> daf: ping? :)
<limi|busy> spiv?
<limi|busy> :)
<limi|busy> anyone? :] 
* limi|busy feels alone
<daf> limi|busy: from the database
<daf> sorry, got distracted
<limi|busy> daf: aha
<limi|busy> anyway
<limi|busy> I have a more complex question ;)
<daf> eek!
<limi|busy> how can I get the languages the logged-in person has?
<limi|busy> I didn't quite understand what kind of structure carlos was using in the dashboard
<daf> um
<limi|busy> the "select your languages" part
<daf> should be something like
<daf> request/lp:person/languages
* limi|busy tests
<daf> grep around for something like that; I think it's used in at least one template already
<limi|busy> Module zope.interface.interface, line 684, in __call__
<limi|busy> raise TypeError("Could not adapt", obj, self)
<limi|busy> TypeError: ('Could not adapt', <zope.app.security.principalregistry.UnauthenticatedPrincipal object at 0x29a3a50>, <InterfaceClass canonical.rosetta.interfaces.IPerson>)
<limi|busy> nothing greppable that I can find :(
<daf> bah, that error again
* limi|busy gets some litchi
<daf> hmm
<daf> you know that error you had before?
<limi|busy> oh well, I can leave it for carlos to sort it out
<limi|busy> yes?
<daf> what does line 65 of your browser.py say?
<limi|busy>                 yield LanguageProducts(language, self.context.products)
<limi|busy> change to rosettaProducts?
<daf> what line did you change before?
<limi|busy> 58
<daf> aha
<daf> ok, both lines 58 and 65 should read ".rosettaProducts()" instead of ".products"
<limi|busy> ok
<limi|busy> and why is it only me that has this problem? :)
* limi|busy feels singled out
<limi|busy> :] 
<daf> I didn't get it because I was not up-to-date, I think
<daf> or because I wasn't looking at that page
<limi|busy> ok :)
<daf> or because the moon is Waning Gibbous
<limi|busy> well, it's just the project page, it's not like it's important or anything O:)
<daf> :)
<limi|busy> that language list in the DB is on crack, btw
<limi|busy> 70% of it is dead/unused languages
<limi|busy> :] 
<limi|busy> daf: almost:
<limi|busy> Module zope.tales.tales, line 109, in __init__
<limi|busy> self._next = i.next()
<limi|busy> Module canonical.rosetta.browser, line 74, in products
<limi|busy> for product in self._products:
<limi|busy> TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
<limi|busy> ;)
<daf> wtf?
<daf> that is *so* a sequence
<limi|busy> haha
<limi|busy> not _rosettaProducts?
<daf> try slapping a list() around self.context.rosettaProducts()
<limi|busy> ok
<limi|busy> both lines?
<daf> aye
* limi|busy feels like the Java days again
<limi|busy> typecasting all over the place ;)
<daf> haha :)
<limi|busy> same error
<daf> humph
<daf> Works For Me <tm>
<limi|busy> Doesn't Help
<limi|busy> ;)
* daf scratches his head
<daf> try rebuilding your database
<daf> "make -C database/schema launchpad_test", IIRC
<limi|busy> I did that after I updated last, but...
* limi|busy tries again
<daf> and you did restart Launchpad, right?
<limi|busy> yes
<daf> then you *are* being singled out :)
<limi|busy> hehe
<limi|busy> Module zope.tales.tales, line 109, in __init__
<limi|busy> self._next = i.next()
<limi|busy> Module canonical.rosetta.browser, line 65, in languageProducts
<limi|busy> yield LanguageProducts(language, list(self.context.rosettaProducts))
<limi|busy> TypeError: iteration over non-sequenc
<limi|busy> still no worky
<daf> you missed out the ()
<limi|busy> ?
<daf> rosettaProducts()
<limi|busy> aha
<daf> if you add the (), you can probably get rid of the list()
<daf> (both of them)
<limi|busy> yes, did that ;)
<limi|busy> daf: what's a "temporal hack", btw? is that where you get 25 hours in a day?
<daf> :)
<limi|busy> O:)
<daf> :D
<daf> I think that's Carlosspeak for "temporary hack" :)
<limi|busy> hehe
* limi|busy is no longer singled out!
<daf> limi has gone mainstream :)
* limi|busy breaks Rosetta 0.2s later:
<limi|busy> Module zope.app.publication.publicationtraverse, line 57, in traverseName
<limi|busy> ob2 = adapter.publishTraverse(request, nm)
<limi|busy> Module canonical.metazcml, line 148, in publishTraverse
<limi|busy> traversed_to = getattr(self.context, self._getter)(name)
<limi|busy> ForbiddenAttribute: ('product', <canonical.rosetta.domain.RosettaProject object at 0x38678f0>)
<limi|busy> when clicking a product in GNOME project page
* limi|busy adds some UI porn instead
<daf> oh, bloody ForbiddenAttributes
<daf> bah, file system full >:-|
<limi|busy> ouch
<daf> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<daf> /dev/hda2              24G   22G     0 100% /
<daf> um, isn't there 2G missing there?
<limi|busy> depends how it counts it
<limi|busy> there's always block slack
<limi|busy> if you have lots of small files, that may be a correct number
<daf> I know, but it's annoying when you're desparately looking around for free space
<limi|busy> get rid of some mp3s :] 
<daf> eek!
<justdave> the Avail and the Use% indicate userspace on the disk
<justdave> there's a bit reserved for root
<mdz> daf: it doesn't count space which is reserved for root
<mdz> by default 5%
<mdz> so 1G and change in your case
<daf> mdz: interesting, thanks
<daf> mdz: this is something which can be configured, right?
<mdz> daf: yes
<mdz> daf: tune2fs -l /dev/hda2 to view it
<mdz> tune2fs -m <percentage> /dev/hda2 to change it
<daf> groovy
<daf> can this be changed on a mounted filesystem?
<mdz> it's probably not dangerous to do so, but it wouldn't take effect until the filesystem was remounted
<daf> hmm, df is reporting the change immediately
!dmwaters:*! hi all! I'm going to wake everyone up a bit.:) I need to switch out one main rotation server for another. basically, replacing an old box with a new one.:) this won't take long. 1800 users affected.
<mdz> that seems plausible
<mdz> I wouldn't expect it to be enforced yet, though, but I suppose it's possible
<daf> we shall see :)
<spiv> SteveA: I'm off to bed now, so just a quick note that BrowserPublication defines two different beforeTraversal methods!
!lilo:*! So, it occurs to me to wonder what the maximum practical latency between participants in a peer-directed project might be: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=6133976&src=eDialog/GetContent&section=news
<SteveA> thanks!
<SteveA> I'll fix that
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> morning
<SteveA> spiv found the database error
<SteveA> I'd introduced a bug when I merged in the auth changes
<SteveA> there are two beforeTraversal methods defined in BrowserPublication
<carlos> SteveA: then, it's already fixed?
<SteveA> I don't believe anything is checked in yet
<SteveA> but, I also just read andrew's note about a bug in sqlobject joins
<carlos> SteveA: I'm having a problem with this page https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/rosetta/prefs
<carlos> SteveA: if I select only a entry from "Available languages", the request gives me something like: availablelanguages: itemSelected
<carlos> but If I select more than one, I get something like: availablelanguages: u'item1', u'item2', u'item3' 
<carlos> and when I try to iterate over all values, it does not work as it should
<carlos> because in the first case, it itereates over all letters instead of just retrieve the value
<SteveA> ok, that sounds like what I'd expect it to do
<SteveA> when there is more than one, what kind of object is it?
<SteveA> you can also change the code in the page template to say availablelanguages:list rather than just availablelanguages
<SteveA> like:
<SteveA>   <select name="availablelanguages:list">
<SteveA> yeah, try making it a list:
<SteveA>             <select id="prefs-available-languages" name="availablelanguages" size="10" style="width: 20em;" multiple="multiple" ondblclick="javascript:addSelectedKeywords('prefs-available-languages','prefs-selected-languages');return false;">
<SteveA> change that to contain name="availablelanguages:list"
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> oh, wait...
<SteveA> you want "selectedLanguages" not "availableLangauges" dont' you?
<carlos> I want both
<SteveA> well, all in lower
<carlos> yes
<SteveA> I don't know how what I suggested would interact with the fancy javascript
<SteveA> so, better to handle this in your form-processing method
<carlos> the add submit gets the available, the remove submit gets the selected
<SteveA> test the type of availablelanguages
<carlos> well, in fact, I don't know why, but the javascript is not working anymore here
<SteveA> isinstance(availablelanguages, list)
<carlos> but that's another problem
<carlos> SteveA: is there any way to do the javascript magic without submit it?
<carlos> or just ignoring it is enough?
<SteveA> I don't know exactly what you mean
<carlos> with the limi's code, we have three submit buttons
<SteveA> let's solve your original problem first
<carlos> one to save and two for add/remove
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> can you try to use isinstance(availablelanguages, list) to see if it is a string or a list?
<carlos> SteveA: ok, it works
<SteveA> great
<SteveA> now, on stopping buttons from submitting
<SteveA> you need to ensure the javascipt returns false
<SteveA> that should stop them from hitting the server
<SteveA> but, it looks like it does that already
<carlos> and it's fixed now
<carlos> if isinstance(self.request.form['availablelanguages'] , list):
<carlos>                     newLanguages = self.request.form['availablelanguages'] 
<carlos>                 else:
<carlos>                     newLanguages = [ self.request.form['availablelanguages']  ] 
<carlos>                 for englishName in newLanguages:
<SteveA> okay
<carlos> SteveA: hmm, I think I was wrong the add/remove button should submit always because if the languages are not selected the request does not have the list of items...
<carlos> limi: hey
<carlos> limi: I'm broking your templates :-P
<limi> hehe
<carlos> but then, I don't understand the utility of the javascript...
<carlos> limi: if the submit buttons work, the javascript has any utility?
<carlos> I mean, Is it useful?
<limi> what do you mean?
<carlos> limi: in my local machine, the javascript code has not effect anymore and I just changed the template so the list of selected languages is filled with user's preferences
<carlos>  /s/just/only/
<carlos> from the template, from browser.py I changed lot of things
<limi> you probably changed the variable names, right?
<SteveA> I must go out and buy some optician stuff.  probably get some lunch too.  back later.
<carlos> limi: only the browser.py ones, not the javascript ones or the html objects ones
<carlos> SteveA: later
<carlos> limi: my changes:
<carlos>  <div metal:fill-slot="main"
<carlos> -     tal:define="languages view/languages">
<carlos> +     tal:define="languages view/languages; selectedLanguages view/selectedLanguages" >
<carlos> -    <form action="translator" method="post">
<carlos> +    <form action="prefs" method="post">
<carlos> -                      <option>Dummy</option>
<carlos> +
<carlos> +                      <option tal:repeat="language selectedLanguages"
<carlos> +                             tal:content="language/englishName"
<carlos> +                             tal:attributes="name language/code" />
<carlos> nothing more
<limi> should work then
* limi updates
<carlos> I know :-)
<carlos> It's not yet at rocketfuel
<limi> ok
<carlos> do you want it?
<limi> yes, mail it to me?
<limi> limi at plone.org
<carlos> ok
<carlos> sent
<carlos> limi: also, I think we don't need the Save button
<limi> well, it depends
<carlos> because the only way to save the new list is every time we push the add/delete one
<limi> yes, but there might be more preferences later
<carlos> seems like the View object is created every time after the submit
<SteveA> the view object is created on every request
<limi> not sure I follow you
<SteveA> you cannot cache data in the view object between requests
<limi> the page shouldn't reload
<carlos> limi: When you click on the add button
<limi> yes
<carlos> I create a list with the additions
<limi> and reload the page?
<carlos> but if you click again in any other button that list does not exists anymore
<limi> ?
<carlos> limi: new object, new variables
<limi> you are only concerned with the list on the right
<SteveA> when I click the "add to my languages" button, there is no request back to the server.
<limi> save that to the user prefs
<limi> SteveA: exactly
<SteveA> the javascript has a "return false;" in it
<limi> I don't want to rely on XmlHttpRequest (not just yet, at least)
<carlos> limi: ok, that's fine for me, but with my changes, I don't know why, the submit is done
<limi> carlos: just take the list on the right and save that to the user prefs
<limi> carlos: then that needs to be fixed ;)
<SteveA> you can tell what button is pressed in your form handling method
<carlos> limi: ok, if you could tell me what did I broke...
<carlos> :-)
<limi> hehe
<carlos> SteveA: I know
* limi looks
<SteveA> so, the form handler should do nothing (but maybe emit a warning) unless "save" is pressed
<carlos> SteveA: then the submit is always done?
<carlos> then, the problem is that I added code to handle all buttons
<SteveA> can you ask that question in another way?
<SteveA> only the save button should submit the form to the server
<SteveA> the other buttons might, if javascript is turned off
<SteveA> unless limi has done more magic to make them appear only when javascript is working
<carlos> SteveA: with javascript on and the current configuration, the view should never get a request from add/remove?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> the server should get no request from add/remove
<limi> correct
<SteveA> "no no no no absolutely not", to quote "Bad News"
<carlos> SteveA: I got those requests, and I have javascript enabled, because without my changes the javascript works
<limi> you just save the list on the right
<SteveA> playing a bastardized version of "Bohemian Rhapsody"
<carlos> ok, the problem is that I was handling "add" submit
<carlos> removing it makes it work again
<carlos> but then the submit is done always
<SteveA> ok, but it shouldn't actually hit the server
<SteveA> check in the rendered page
<SteveA> see if you have "return false;" at the end of the javascript in the add/remove buttons
<SteveA> 
<SteveA>         <div style="float: left; padding-top: 5em;">
<SteveA>             <input type="submit" name="add" value="Add to my languages &raquo;" onclick="javascript:addSelectedKeywords('prefs-available-languages','prefs-selected-languages');return false;" />
<SteveA> see, at the end of the onclick attribute
<SteveA> that "return false;" will stop the browser from treating the click as a real form submit
<SteveA> limi: why do paragraphs change colour when my mouse goes over them?
<limi> paragraphs?
<limi> oh, the help text?
<SteveA> " Add or remove languages in your language list by double clicking the entries or using the labeled buttons. Use Ctrl to select multiple elements".
* SteveA really goes out now
<carlos> the return false is still there but for some reason does not work...
<carlos> btw, it's not important now, just remove the code to handle those buttons and that's it
<carlos> limi: I don't have a way to get the list of selected languages
<carlos> limi: they should be "selected" so the request send me that list
<limi> you are going about this the wrong way :)
<carlos> I'm using <div tal:content="request" />
<carlos> to see the request
<limi> the list on the left is always static, and a separate item
<limi> the list on the right is the variable stored on the user
<carlos> and every time I press the Save button I don't get that list
<limi> don't make them one variable
<carlos> forget the code I sent you
<carlos> just look at this:
<carlos> CHANNEL_CREATION_TIME: 1094212731.84 CONNECTION_TYPE: keep-alive CONTENT_LENGTH: 33 CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 HTTP_ACCEPT: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: es,en-gb;q=0.7,en;q=0.3 HTTP_HOST: localhost:8085 HTTP
<carlos> _KEEP_ALIVE: 300 HTTP_REFERER: http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/prefs HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux ppc; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040814 Epiphany/1.3.7 PATH_INFO: /++skin++Debug/rosetta/prefs REMOTE_ADDR: 127.0.0.1 REQUEST_METHOD: POST SAVE: Save SCRIPT_NAME: SERVER_NAME: frodo SERVER_PORT: 8085 SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 SERVER_SOFTWARE: zope.server.http (HTTP) availablelanguages: Akan
<carlos> I get that after add the Akan language with javascript (without the submit)
<carlos> and the pressing the Save button
<carlos> I only get availablelanguages: Akan, because It's still selected from the available list when I added it with javascript
<carlos> I don't see a way to get the list of selectedlanguages
<limi> ask SteveA when he gets back, this is request magic :)
<limi> shouldn't be a problem if you know how (I don't ;)
<carlos> limi: SteveA told me that the way it works is: you only get what you have selected
<carlos> is the same with a checkbox
<carlos> if the checkbox is not checked, you don't get it with the request object
<limi> yes, but it should select the selected languages on submit
* limi checks
<carlos> that's why I was working with the add/remove buttons
<SteveA> I see no code that would select languages in the "my languages" select box before submitting
<limi> ok, let me look at it
* SteveA really really goes now :-)
* SteveA isn't here any more
<carlos> SteveA: X-)
<carlos> lunch time
<carlos> later
* limi subjects himself to a temporal hack
<daf> somebody broke the server
<daf> carlos: I think it was you
<daf> carlos: syntax error in lib/canonical/browser.py, line 326
<daf> did SteveA say when he'd be back?
<limi> nope
<carlos> daf: hmm, I checked it before commit
<carlos> let me see...
<carlos> shit
<carlos> daf: sorry, was my fault
<carlos> daf: merge request to fix it sent
<daf> thanks
<carlos> daf: could we add all pending things to bugzilla so we can track its status and pick the "free" ones when we are free to pick another task?
<carlos> hmm I thought our bugzilla is at https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/ but seems like it's not there, which one is the correct URL?
<daf> http://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla?
<carlos> daf: yes
<carlos> thanks
<daf> doo itashimashite
<carlos> daf: :-?
<daf> carlos: de nada
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> ok
* SteveA is back
<daf> SteveA: hi
<carlos> SteveA: Did you saw the talk I had with limi about the request object?
<daf> SteveA: do you have time to help me with this problem I'm having?
* carlos can wait
<SteveA> carlos: should I read the irc logs for when I was at lunch?
<SteveA> daf: what's the problem?
<daf> in a nutshell:
<daf> NotFoundError: (<RosettaProject at 0xb414896c>, 'title')
<carlos> SteveA: no, it was just before you leave. As soon as you end helping daf I will explain again the problem, ok?
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> daf: that doesn't tell me much
<daf> SteveA: I'm miffed because RosettaProject implements IRosettaProject which is derived from doap.IProject which has a title attribute
<daf> SteveA: and, in sql.zcml, the IRosettaProject interface is allowed for RosettaProject
<daf> the error ocurrs on the TAL expression 'context/product/project/title'
<daf> in pdb:
<daf> (Pdb) self.context
<daf> <RosettaPOTemplate at 0xb4204b2c>
<daf> (Pdb) self.context.product
<daf> <RosettaProduct at 0xb41fb58c>
<daf> (Pdb) self.context.product.project
<daf> <RosettaProject at 0xb41aeecc>
<daf> (Pdb) self.context.product.project.title
<daf> *** ForbiddenAttribute: ('title', <RosettaProject at 0xb41aeecc>)
<SteveA> what box are you working on?
<SteveA> your laptop?
<daf> yes
<SteveA> can you give me a login there, and we can use screen for some pair-programming debugging?
<daf> sure
* SteveA goes to make a cup of tea while daf gets set up
<daf> it's been a while since I've done this
<SteveA> keep notes to put up on a wiki page perhaps
<daf> good idea
<SteveA> this will be even better when we can use voip and screen together
<daf> :)
<carlos> https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/
<carlos> SteveA: I think that error is related to that bug
<SteveA> I think you're right
<SteveA> want to talk about requests while daf gets ready?
<carlos> ok
<carlos> It's about the page to select interested languages
<carlos> Limi creates a list with javascript
<carlos> when you click on add/remove
<carlos> and in theory, when you click on "Save", I should get that list
<SteveA> ok
<limi> I probably need to do a select all on that click
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> I expect so
<SteveA> otherwise, nothing will be sent
<carlos> that's what I thought :-P
<SteveA> otherwise, when you add items to the select box, also add a hidden form field
<SteveA> but that sounds complex
<SteveA> when you consider removal too
<SteveA> don't even know if it would work :)
<limi> we are using it in production with the select all :)
<limi> so I should be able to locate that
<SteveA> so, carlos, limi will fix it with javascript
<SteveA> to test for now, you can manually select all the items before submitting
<limi> +1
<limi> :)
<carlos> ok
<carlos> limi: and is there any way to get the language code instead of the language name?
<SteveA> carlos: maybe add a note to the UI saying "XXX select all items before submitting"
<carlos> SteveA: ok
<limi> it has the lang code now, afaik?
<carlos> limi: no, the submit send the language name
<limi> ok
<carlos> limi: I just merged into rocketfuel the project-index.pt updated so it does not shows anything about a language
<daf> SteveA: ssh stevea@earthsea.homedns.org
<SteveA> hmm
<SteveA> debug1: Connecting to earthsea.homedns.org [80.69.60.252]  port 22.
<daf> hmm
<SteveA> I can't get any response telnetting to port 22 either
<daf> probably a problem with the router
<SteveA> let's see if I can connect to your launchpad
<SteveA> run it on 8085, and I'll try to connect
<SteveA> can I run a portscan on you?
<SteveA> will your isp think I'm cracking?
<daf> no, they're sane
<daf> hm, I tried opening port 2222 also
<daf> but that doesn't seem to work either
<daf> perhaps I'll just set up an ssh tunnel
<carlos> limi: the preferences page is implemented but does some funny things until the DB commit is fixed
<daf> SteveA: try "ssh stevea@muse.19inch.net -p 2222"
<SteveA> ok, need password
<daf> /msg'd
<daf> now: screen -x daf/
<daf> (I think)
<SteveA> Must run suid root for multiuser support.
<daf> hrm
<daf> try again
<carlos> wow, I didn't know that screen's feature
* SteveA waits for daf to type something in screen
<SteveA> 3 minute workrave time
<SteveA> ok, let's debug
<SteveA> how about we do gossip and screen
<SteveA> ?
<daf> sure
<daf> http://muse.19inch.net/~daf/misc/multiuser-screen.html
<SteveA> still there?
<daf> yes
<daf> the screen session has two windows
<SteveA> so, we can talk on gossip
<daf> one for running launchpad in
<daf> and the other for modifying code in
<SteveA> I have my terminal arranged so I can see our talk in gossip, and the screen session
<SteveA> mainly, I want to get into the debugger at the point the error fails
<SteveA> so, PM debug the permissions problem
<daf> I have an explicit "import pdb; pdb.set_trace()" in the code at the moment
<daf> we can debug from where that runs
<daf> (in browser.py)
<daf> or we can debug from the point whre it was failing of its own accord
<SteveA> let's use the post-mortem debugger for now
<SteveA> I want you to see how I'd debug one of these permissions problems
<daf> well, both suggestions apply to the PMD
<daf> oh, right
<daf> ok, I'll disable the explicit debugger invocation
!lilo:*! Hi all.  We need translator assistance in translating an English-language email for speakers of Spanish in the Dominican Republic....please message me if you can help
* carlos goes to the university to study. See you!!
<daf> limi: the color scheme change seem to only happen for some pages
<daf> limi: also, I noticed you discussing the "change-colour-on-hover" behaviour of some text with Steve -- did you come to a conclusion about it?
<limi> it's on the help text class - from Plone
<limi> it was essentially added since some hard-of-sight people didn't like grayed-out text for the help
<limi> easily removed if we don't like it
<limi> one line of CSS ;)
<limi> the color change should happen everywhere, make sure your cache is fresh
<limi> shift-reload where it looks like the old version
<limi> anyway, still waiting for the designs from the agency
<limi> was just tired of it looking like Plone :)
<daf> :)
<daf> which agency is this?
<limi> the logo people
<daf> (I find the black-on-dark-blue a little difficult to read)
<daf> oh dear
* limi fears the worst
<daf> hurrah!
<daf> DatabaseException: unindexable object
<daf> I didn't think I'd be happy to see that again...
<daf> spiv: around?
<daf> lalo: "fixed DB regression introduced by SteveA when integrating authentication." -- was that yours?
<SteveA> that was me
<SteveA> what's up?
<SteveA> are you glad you got an "unindexable object" error?
<daf> SteveA: did you forget to mirror?
<daf> SteveA: no patches were merged
<daf> SteveA: yes, I'm glad
<daf> because that's what I was working on a few days ago before I got sidetracked by other things
<SteveA> oh, yes... I forgot that my mirror hook isn't there
<daf> I'd really like to get this error fixed
<daf> because I don't think there's much else in the way of getting database submission merged to rocketfuel
<daf> perhaps spiv's at lunch
<SteveA> I just submitted a merge
<SteveA> that should fix the database error I introduced
<daf> which one?
<SteveA> there were two beforeTraversal methods
<SteveA> they should have been merged into one
<SteveA> so, the transaction wasn't being started correctly, and the connection pool wasn't being cleared
<daf> oh, right
<SteveA> nono nononono nononono nono
<SteveA> there's no limi
<limi> O:)
<SteveA> chris morris interviewed the performers of that song (2 unlimited) about the semantic content of the lyrics
<SteveA> "so, do you think there should be limits on anything at all?"
<daf> :D
<daf> chris morris... the name rings a bell, faintly
<daf> was the the guy behind Brass Eye?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> '"No, no, no no no no, no no no" - don't you think it's a bit negative?'
* limi grins
<SteveA> daf: technically, the man in front of brass eye
<SteveA> brass eye is a crude anatomical reference
!lilo:*! Hi all. Just a reminder for those who wish to attend the official Gentoo meeting in Manchester UK tomorrow---if you're interested and you can make it there, please visit #gentoo-uk. Kudos to everyone involved for all the time they've put in to put this happen, and we know it will be an excellent event.
<spiv> daf: Yep, am now.
<daf> spiv: I've tried escaping the '%'s in the query
<daf> spiv: but I'm still getting the same error
<spiv> daf: Hmm.  Can you find out what the query string is?  (and what's the final part of the traceback?)
<daf> sure
<daf> 'Opening %%d contact will open %%d new window as well.\r\nDo you really want to display this contact?' is the string in question
<daf> any easy way to get hold of the query?
<daf> or shall I just turn postgres statement loggin on?
#launchpad 2004-09-15
<spiv> postgres statement logging is too late -- the query never reaches postgres.
<spiv> The simplest way would be to insert a print just before the relevant line in zope.app.rdb, -- what's the fnal part of the traceback?
<daf>     *  Module canonical.rosetta.sql, line 678, in createMessageSetFromText
<daf>       return createMessageSetFromText(self, text)
<daf>     * Module canonical.rosetta.sql, line 291, in createMessageSetFromText
<daf>       if messageIDs.count() == 0:
<daf>     * Module sqlobject.main, line 1211, in count
<daf>       count = self.accumulate('COUNT(*)')
<daf>     * Module sqlobject.main, line 1207, in accumulate
<daf>       return conn.accumulateSelect(self,expression)
<daf>     * Module sqlobject.dbconnection, line 249, in accumulateSelect
<daf>       val = int(self.queryOne(q)[0] )
<daf>     * Module sqlobject.dbconnection, line 223, in queryOne
<daf>       return self._runWithConnection(self._queryOne, s)
<daf>     * Module sqlos.adapter, line 60, in _runWithConnection
<daf>       raise DatabaseException, tuple(exc.args)
<daf> DatabaseException: unindexable object
<spiv> Actually, turning on debug in SQLObject would be sufficient.
<daf> could you remind me how I do that?
<spiv> Except the current sqlos seems to override that :/
<spiv> sqlobject/dbconnection.py is what I edit.
<spiv> You may need to remove self.debug = 0 from sqlos/adapter.py, too.
<daf> <sqlobject.main.SelectResults object at 0xb421f7cc>
<daf>  1/Pool    :  ACQUIRE pool=[] 
<daf>  1/QueryOne:  SELECT COUNT(*) FROM POMsgID WHERE msgid = 'Opening %%d contact will open %%d new window as well.\r\nDo you really want to display this contact?'
<daf>  1/Pool    :  RELEASE (implicit, autocommit=None) pool=[] 
<daf> but, also:
<daf>  1/Pool    :  ACQUIRE pool=[] 
<daf>  1/QueryOne:  SELECT COUNT(*) FROM POMsgID WHERE msgid = 'Opening %d contact will open %d new window as well.\r\nDo you really want to display this contact?'
<daf>  1/Pool    :  RELEASE (implicit, autocommit=None) pool=[] 
<spiv> Also?  Weird.
<spiv> The second one fails I presume?
<daf> I presume so too
<spiv> :)
<daf> ah, think I've found the second one
<daf> spiv: ok, I think I've sorted out the SELECTs
<daf> spiv: now an INSERT is being a pain
<daf> spiv: shouldn't this stuff be automatically escaped in SQLObject?
<spiv> Probably, yes.
<daf> is it difficult to fix?
<spiv> (Which has the added suck that fixing it in SQLObject will break our code thatwe're writing now that assumes the fix isn't there)
<daf> i.e. should I do a workaround, or wait for it to be fixed properly?
<daf> is it only a problem with percent signs?
<daf> speaking of the Rosetta code, there's not much code which is affected
<spiv> I'd workaround it.
<daf> ok, I know how to hack SELECTS to work
<spiv> (man, my wireless is screwing up for some reason)
<daf> how do I do the same for INSERTs?
<spiv> Yes, it's only % -- it's because Python's printf-like formatting is being invoked.
<daf> right
<daf> it is a bug, right?
<spiv> (i.e. psycopg's cursor.execute does  query % params )
<spiv> (sorry about the lag -- my wireless keeps dropping out for no apparent reason)
<spiv> You'd fix it for INSERTs the same way -- escape % as %% in any strings.
<daf> using which method?
<spiv> foo.replace('%', '%%')
<spiv> How are you donig it for SELECTS? :)
<daf> Class.select()
<daf> I've always used Class(...) for insertions previously
<spiv> Um, I think we're talking at cross-purposes.
<spiv> You can do Class(foo=foo.replace('%', '%%'))
<daf> ok, that's what I wanted to know
<daf> sorry, I'm tired
<spiv> And you can do Class.selectBy(foo=foo.replace('%', '%%'))
<daf> oh, right
#launchpad 2004-09-16
!lilo:*! Hi all.  Minor change to generic user cloaks:  http://freenode.net/news.shtml .... thanks!
#launchpad 2004-09-17
<carlos> morning
<carlos> daf: We should solve the case when a language does not have a default plural form
<daf> carlos: yes
<carlos> daf: any idea of the procedure to do it?, do we have it defined?
<daf> what do you mean "solve"?
<carlos> daf: http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/translate
<carlos> fails
<carlos> because welsh does not have plural forms
<daf> right
<daf> I have an idea for it
<carlos> phone 
<limi> carlos: I have a solutions for the language selection widget
<carlos> limi: good!!
<carlos> daf: Could you share it? :-)
<carlos> limi: Do I need to change my code?
<limi> already checked in, and sending mail to the list now
<limi> no
<carlos> ok
<limi> mail sent
<limi> please test the code
* limi is in a hurry
<daf> carlos: well, error reporting in the translation template needs to be better in general
<limi> I shouldn't really be here ;)
<limi> plane leaves in 3 hours
<carlos> limi: downloading
<carlos> daf: I know :-)
<daf> for now, the view class should set a flag for this error, and the template should check for it
<daf> and it should work similarly for other errors
<carlos> limi: not yet at rocketfuel...
<carlos> daf: make sense
<carlos> SteveA, spiv: The database updated is not working, with the SteveA's patch seems to work better but the commit is never done
<SteveA> is the commit never done for any query?
<carlos> SteveA: the log does not have any COMMIT
<SteveA> is this try for all queries, or just some?
<carlos> SteveA: I did a grep looking for COMMIT at /var/log/postgresql/postgres.log and I got 0 strings
<SteveA> ok, that's interesting
<carlos> daf: should this page be killed?:  http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/es
<carlos> daf: I think we should remove it and serve from there only the .po/.mo files
<carlos> daf: or serve the .po/.mo files as:   http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/es/po and   http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/es/mo
<SteveA> warty crashed
<carlos> SteveA: wow, X crash?
<SteveA> daf: ?
<daf> SteveA: ?
<SteveA> I cannot run rosetta as checked in, as I get an error when going to the page http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/ubuntu
<SteveA> I cannot run rosetta as checked in, as I get an error when going to the page http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/ubuntu
<carlos> SteveA: it works here, do you have latest database data?
<SteveA> #
<SteveA> # Module canonical.rosetta.browser, line 59, in products
<SteveA> person = RosettaPerson.selectBy(displayName='Dafydd Harries')[0] 
<SteveA> # Module sqlobject.main, line 1194, in __getitem__
<SteveA> return list(self.clone(start=start, end=start+1))[0] 
<SteveA> perhaps I do not have the latest database data
<daf> make -C launchpad/database/schema launchpad_test
<SteveA> thanks
<daf> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
<carlos> daf: ?
<daf> when the database code is running inside Zope, % signs in queries make it crash and burn
<daf> when I use initZopeless, it works
<SteveA> did you read stu's email?
<daf> yes
<daf> I replied to it
<SteveA> http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/translate
<SteveA> RuntimeError: ('No information on plural forms for this language!', <RosettaLanguage at 0x409ebcec>)
<carlos> SteveA: know bug
<daf> carlos: you shouldn't have made me the default, I speak Welsh :)
<carlos> SteveA: to be able to enter there, edit the language list and remove welsh from the list of languages
<carlos> from rosetta/prefs
<carlos> daf: I thought that you added it because you speak welsh :-)
<daf> or append "?languages=" to the URL
<daf> I didn't add it!
<SteveA> http://localhost:8085/++skin++Debug/rosetta/prefs
<SteveA>     *
<SteveA> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 4: ordinal not in range(128)
<carlos> I mean, that you added the Welsh's plural form expression :-P
<carlos> SteveA: hmm, that's new
<daf> I've seen that before somewhere
<daf> SteveA: can you give me the last stack frame within the Rosetta code?
<SteveA> all I want to do is to write to the database so I can find out why it isn't committing
<carlos> SteveA: but it works here
<carlos> SteveA: wait, because perhaps it's my fault (I didn't got the updates outside launchpad), I'm testing it again now...
<carlos> SteveA: same problem after getting latest code from all modules. But the prefs page does not have that error here...
<carlos> that error == UnicodeDecodeError
<daf> carlos: can you give me the last stack frame within the Rosetta code?
<carlos> daf: I don't have it, as I said, I don't get that error
<carlos> same problem == database update error
<daf> what's the error you're getting?
<carlos> I don't get a bt, the database is not updated, that's "all"
<daf> oh, that problem
<SteveA> daf: do you want something from me?
<daf> SteveA: yes
<stub> daf: If you are having troubles with '%''s in queries, are you logging the SQL received by PostgreSQL, and does this show the problem?
<daf> 13:14:38 <daf> SteveA: can you give me the last stack frame within the Rosetta code?
<daf> stub: not sure that it ever gets as far as Postgres
<carlos> lunch time, see you later.....
<stub> daf: Does the process crash?
<SteveA> daf: I was confused by your request
<daf> stub: yes
<SteveA> I stack frame is not something I can give you
<daf> SteveA: from the backtrace, can you give the the last record which ocurrs within Rosetta code?
<stub> daf: You might be sneaking a Unicode string into Psycopg which will do that. If possible, you can try doing .encode('utf8') to see if it fixes the issue (then we have to plug the hole)
<daf> stub: hmm, that could be it
<SteveA> daf, it doesn't
<daf> stub: I'll give that a try
<SteveA> it is just on rendering a page template
<daf> SteveA: oh
<daf> SteveA: in that case, can you just paste me the traceback in Jabber?
<SteveA>     *
<SteveA> RuntimeError: ('No information on plural forms for this language!', <RosettaLanguage at 0x406b29ec>)
<SteveA> I added a ?lanaguages=en
<SteveA> filled in the form
<SteveA> tried to submit it, and got that error
<daf> don't use that template
<daf> it doesn't write to the database
<SteveA> argh
<SteveA> tell me where to go so that I can use a page that writes to the database
<daf> stub: I don't think it's an encoding problem
<stub> daf: In theory, the only thing that could cause a crash is psycopg since everything else is written in Python. We need to track down the query being sent to psycopg.execute that causes the crash
<daf> stub: ok
<stub> (and the bound parameters if there are any)
<daf> stub: the error I'm getting, by the way, is "DatabaseException: unindexable object"
<daf> stub: sorry
<stub> daf: Oh... I thought you meant core dump crash :-)
<daf> stub: it doesn't crash in the segfault sense
<stub> daf: Probably right, and you need to do '%%foo%%' instead of '%foo%'
<daf> stub: it's more like "Opening %%d contact will open %%d new window as well." instead of "Opening %d contacts will open %d new windows as well."
<daf> stub: these are string comparisons, not LIKEs
<daf> stub: e.g. RosettaPOMessageID.selectBy(msgid=foo)
<SteveA> I must meet people for lunch.  Back in a while.
<SteveA> Please let me know if there's a database problem to be tracked down, and if so, a page in rosetta I can use to try it out.
<stub> daf: Ok - I've got a test case that reproduces your bug
<daf> stub: oh, wow!
<daf> stub: yep, it definitely only happens under Zope
<daf> stub: .replace('%', '%%') removes the error, but the '%%' persists into the database query, which means the results are wrong
<stub> :-P
<daf> stub: sorry, are you meant to be off-duty?
<stub> daf: Yup, but I hang out here anyway. Go figure :-)
<daf> stub: ok, so long as you don't mind me bothering you :)
<stub> daf: Ok. It is either a psycopg bug or 'feature', being triggered by Zope3
<daf> stub: what is this (mis)feature?
<stub> daf: I think I can fix Z3 upstream to work around the problem
<daf> huzzah!
<stub> daf: cursor.execute("insert into x values ('100%')", {})
<stub> daf: psycopg then throws a wobbly
<daf> why so?
<stub> Because I suspect it just does 'parameter binding' by doing query % parameter_map (because PostgreSQL didn't used to support real bound parameters)
<stub> People generally won't notice, as they either use no bound variables (and no second argument to cursor.execute), or all bound variables so no stray %'s in the query.
<daf> but
<daf> if it does query % parameter_map
<daf> why are the %% persisting into the query sent to Postgres?
<stub> No idea :-) I might have found a different bug
<stub> No - it is the same bug
<daf> waah!
<stub> cursor.execute("insert into x values ('100%%')", {}) works, but sends a double %% to postgresql
<daf> well, even a workaround would be very helpful
<debonzi> if I have for lp.dbschema a class (ex: DistributionReleaseState) is it possible to get its state using the Item number?
<debonzi> s/for/from
<SteveA> daf: ping
<daf> SteveA: pong
<carlos> SteveA: hmmm, seems like it works now. But I did not changed anything...
<carlos> SteveA: the database is updated
<carlos> http://localhost:8085/rosetta/prefs and http://localhost:8085/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/es/+edit
<carlos> change the database
<carlos> SteveA: the postgres log still does not shows any commit or rollback, but it shows a begin transaction and an end, I suppose it's the way it shows a commit..
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> so, is it working properly for you?
<daf> SteveA: did you want me for something?
<daf> SteveA: I'm thinking of having lunch
<SteveA> I wanted to ask you about     * RuntimeError: ('No information on plural forms for this language!', <RosettaLanguage at 0x406b29ec>)
<daf> that's a bug
<carlos> SteveA: hmm, I'm debugging now it,  because after the submit, the database is updated but the webpage shows old data, if you reload it, it shows again valid data
<daf> SteveA: since I'm a bit stuck on this database stuff, I was thinking of working on that now
<SteveA> daf: have you had a meeting / taskboard thing for today?
<daf> SteveA: for "now" meaning "after lunch"
<daf> SteveA: no
<daf> SteveA: I have been rather lax in doing that
<carlos> so, I think that the database is updated after the template fetchs the information from the objects (first the queries and then the submit but it should be, first the submit and then the queries...)
<SteveA> hm
<SteveA> that might well be happening
<SteveA> which template?
<carlos> rosetta-preferences.pt
<SteveA> lots of tabs in that template ;-)
<carlos> It's not mine :-)
<SteveA> ok, here's the problem
<SteveA> there are tal:define statements at the top
<SteveA> but the part that calls the "update stuff" is after those
<SteveA>     <div tal:content="view/submit" />
<SteveA> that needs to be before 
<SteveA>      tal:define="languages view/languages; selectedLanguages view/selectedLanguages" >
<SteveA> so, do the tal:define on a div, or something like that
<carlos> ok, thanks
<SteveA> and start it lower down
<SteveA> maybe even on the form tag
<carlos> directly inside the form tag?
<carlos> perfect, it works
<carlos> thank you
<carlos> the only remaining thing with that page is the selection of all prefered languages, limi's fix is not working
<carlos> I mean, select them before submit the form
<SteveA> same template?
<carlos> yes
<SteveA> what was limi's fix ?
<carlos> I sent an email about it to launchpad
<carlos> <form action="prefs" method="post" onsubmit="selectAllWords();return true;"
<carlos>           tal:define="languages view/languages; selectedLanguages view/selectedLanguages" >
<carlos> in theory with that form line should work
<carlos> limi's fix is the onsubmit attribute
<carlos> I changed the return false with retur true so it sends the submit
<carlos> but I still get the list empty
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> I just read the mail to the launchpad list
<SteveA> I think this is simple to fix
<carlos> I know, but I have no idea about javascript and my html knowledge is basic
<SteveA> I will fix this now
<carlos> ok, thank you
<carlos> I have sent the merge request with my changes to that template
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA>     onsubmit="javascript:selectAllWords();return true;"
<SteveA> try that please
<SteveA> adding that to the form tag
<SteveA> carlos: ping
<carlos> SteveA: does not works
<SteveA> ok, I will investigate further
<SteveA> what exactly does it do for you?
<carlos> ok
<carlos> SteveA: It does the submit 
<SteveA> does it select the selects?
<carlos> but as I don't have any language selected
<carlos> it removes all languages from the database for Daf
<daf> carlos: what's the status of the preferences page?
<daf> carlos: is it working?
<carlos> daf: yes, it only has a problem with the html/javascript code
<SteveA> I'm just talking about the form, and the javascript
<daf> carlos: ok
<daf> carlos: how long do you think it will take to finish?
<SteveA> I can't see the prefs page
<carlos> daf: it does not depends on me, SteveA is working on fixing it
<SteveA> because I get a unicode error
<SteveA> so, I cannot test this
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> let me regenerate my database and try it, perhaps I have something different...
<SteveA> I'll do that too
<carlos> daf: the python code is all in place, it works if you manually select the list of languages from "My languages" before click over the save button
<SteveA> ok, works for me now
<SteveA> I updated, and regenerated my db
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> ok, I'll see what's wrong with the javascript and fix it
<daf> I'd like us to try using Bugzilla as the focus of our task management
<daf> carlos: 
<daf> SteveA: 
<daf> how does that sound?
<carlos> daf: that's perfect for me
<daf> ok
<daf> and, on the task board, we link to the bugs we're working on
<carlos> ok
<daf> ok, I've updated for today
<SteveA> good
* daf creates a named Bugzilla search called "Rosetta bugs"
<daf> hmm: bugs #1905-#1911 are all Rosetta's
* carlos looks at bugzilla...
<daf> I think we should probably file things in Bugzilla at the drop of the hat
<daf> it's easy enough to close bogus bugs
<daf> but it's bad when we lost track of things that need doing
<daf> so, let's be bug-happy :)
* daf -> lunch
<SteveA> carlos: I have a fix
<carlos> SteveA: ok
<SteveA> I just sent it to pqm
<SteveA> try it out now though.
<SteveA> in canonical/lp/javascripts/launchpad.js
<SteveA> function selectAllWords()
<SteveA>     {
<SteveA>     var keyword = document.getElementsByTagName('select')
<SteveA> 
<SteveA>     for (var i=0; i < keyword.length; i++)
<SteveA>         {if (keyword[i] .multiple)
<SteveA>             {
<SteveA>     	        for (var x=0; x < keyword[i] .options.length; x++) 
<SteveA>     		    {
<SteveA>                 keyword[i] .options[x] .selected = true
<SteveA>         	    }
<SteveA>             }
<SteveA>          }
<SteveA>     }
<carlos> SteveA: with your previous fix?
<SteveA>     <form action="prefs" method="post"
<SteveA>     onSubmit="javascript:selectAllWords();return true;"
<SteveA>     tal:define="languages view/languages; selectedLanguages view/selectedLanguages" >
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> that's the form tag from rosetta-preferences.pt
<carlos> SteveA: ok, it works, but it also selects the "Available languages" list
<SteveA> is that a problem?
<SteveA> the code is supposed to select all multiple select boxes
<carlos> If it's a problem, it's a UI one so we could ignore it now
<SteveA> ok, good
<SteveA> so, your code will work, and the page will work as intended
<carlos> SteveA: thank you
<SteveA> is there a bugzilla bug on this?
<carlos> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> great, then you'll be able to close it soon
<carlos> SteveA: not yet, and I suppose it's not necessary it because it's fixed already, right?
<carlos> SteveA: my yes is about "<SteveA> so, your code will work, and the page will work as intended"
<SteveA> ok, fine
<SteveA> this was a bug that involved more than one person, and some time and chatting
<SteveA> so, it would have been good to open a bug
<SteveA> when you're depending on someone else to fix code, always open a bug
<carlos> ok
* SteveA goes for a 10 minute break
* daf <- lunch
<spiv> daf: Did you get Mary's email?
<daf> spiv: yep
<daf> spiv: did you see any of that stuff about '%'s in queries?
<daf> spiv: (just sent a reply)
<spiv> Ah, thanks.
<spiv> Yeah, I did.
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1909, by the way
<spiv> Ah, great.
<daf> stub has a fix, but it's waiting on lifeless to merge it
<carlos> daf: Could we add a metabug for Rosetta Alpha?, that way we could see easily the bugs that blocks the alpha to be released
<SteveA> daf: can you add a link to the "rosetta bugs" query to the taskboard page?
<daf> carlos: are you volunteering? :)
<daf> SteveA: sure
<carlos> daf: yes
<daf> carlos: great, thanks!
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1915
<carlos> please remember that any new bug should add the #1915 to its "blocks" fields
<carlos> daf: I should leave now to study. Do you need anything from me now?
<daf> carlos: not right now
<daf> carlos: thanks
<carlos> ok ,send me an email if you need anything I suppose I will read it from time to time until tonight
<carlos> see you!!
<daf> good luck with your study
#launchpad 2004-09-18
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> zelazny.freenode.net
!lilo:*! New project channel, #fossie .... "Welcome to fossie, a project to fiddle around with the idea of a small, modular, event-driven communications framework and probably write a bit of code. :) | dlopen(), bind(), posix signals, and some miscellaneous."
!lilo:*! stop by if you code and it sounds interesting
* Signon time  :    Sat Aug 28 18:38:24 2004
* Signoff time :    Tue Sep  7 07:22:17 2004
* Total uptime :    9d 12h 43m 53s
* Signon time  :    Tue Sep  7 09:16:14 2004
* Signoff time :    Tue Sep  7 09:17:34 2004
* Total uptime :    0d  0h  1m 20s
<lulu> SteveA: ping
<SteveA> hi
<lulu> SteveA: hi Stevo. I've just sent u an email regarding Upfront and a quote on the authentication work. pls could u have a look and respond asap. Tx :o)
<lulu> elmo: ping
<SteveA> lulu: Roche and I still need to have some discussion about exactly what he'll be doing.
<SteveA> he has sent me his suggestion of the API.  Now, I need to reply to that and propose some changes.
<lulu> SteveA: ok - no doubt there will be a revised quote based on that. If we can get the spec finalised and an updated quote before close of play today, that would be great. Tx Steve.
<SteveA> on the ubuntu plone website, do all users basically have the same rights?
<SteveA> As I understand it, there are no different classes of user
<SteveA> For example, all users can access the same things, all users can comment on or edit the same things.
<lulu> Mark and I discussed this yesterday. He wants anyone to be able to contribute to the content of the site.
<lulu> But, we need to have an editor/publisher that has the final say - does a check for grammar/spelling/bad language etc etc before letting it go live.
<SteveA> Is the editor / publisher a Person in launchpad?
<lulu> Yes
<lulu> I don't see users being able to edit docs....unless it's their own....
<SteveA> how do we know which Person or Persons is an editor and which is not?
<lulu> what if someone decided to edit Ubuntu's Philosophy or license.....not good
<lulu> ok - How many levels of user does Plone have in it's normal form?
<SteveA> I don't know
<lulu> Looked to me like an owner and a manager....but i ahven't had a chance to investigate everything yet.
<SteveA> the API roche has proposed has an attribute for the "security roles assigned to the user"
<SteveA> in zope2 in general, the owner is the person who created an object, and a manager can do anything at all
<SteveA> if we are to specify who has different roles, for example, who is a manager and who is just an ordinary user, then we need to represent this in the launchpad database.
<lulu> that's good. surely there has been a need for different levels of user in the workflow of publishing content.....in plone.....let's ask Roche if he knows of any.
<SteveA> I think plone has workflows that you can plug in
<SteveA> and these workflows use different roles such as "editor" and "content author"
<SteveA> I really don't know how it works, though, other than some notion that it has these things
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> hi carlos
<lulu> Launchpad database - need the same user permissions as on the website?
<lulu> hi Carlos
<lulu> SteveA: the workflow plugin, Limi and I spoke about. I thought it was inherent in Plone workflow already. I'll check with Roche then.
<SteveA> the main thing is that we need to know what "security roles" the plone site needs
<SteveA> and we need to think how to represent these in the launchpad database
<SteveA> But, if we can agree that they will definitely be in the launchpad database, and not elsewhere, then I can move forward with the API for authentication / users
<lulu> SteveA: the Launchpad roles and what people can do in the tools/apps like Rosetta, Malone, Soyuz, are different to the content creators/editors for the website.
<SteveA> what people can do in rosetta etc. is based on what packages etc. that they own
<lulu> indeed
<SteveA> so yes, this is different to the website
<SteveA> I think we need mark's input at this point.  I'll give him a call in a few minutes.
<lulu> so yes, Launchpad authentication will be different to content workflow.
<SteveA> I need to take a "no typing" break for a few minutes.
<lulu> Ok - any community member of Ubuntu should be allowed to contribute content to the website, so if they are recognised by Launchpad (logged in) then they can add content too.
<SteveA> ok.
<SteveA> what about this "publisher / editor" role?
<SteveA> Can we simplify things, and say that we have two lots of people: people recognised in launchpad, and website admins.
<SteveA> the website admins are users just in plone, not in launchpad.  They are "managers" of the site.
<lulu> That sounds fine for the web requirements. 
<lulu> But in launchpad, you will have different permissions for a translator, maintainer, developer, release manager, security manager etc...
<SteveA> in launchpad, a person will be able to do different things depending on their relationship to those things
<lulu> so for Roche - anyone who is logged into Launchpad can contribute to the site. Then we have Web admins who control what content is published. That's fine.
<SteveA> so, we need just one class of user in the API between plone and launchpad 
<lulu> Launchpad - I assume that's what Spiv will be writing - relationships with things.
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> let's stick to talking about the plone site, and what launchpad needs to say to the plone site
<lulu> ok
<SteveA> so, andrew will be writing a simple XML-RPC server, probably using Twisted, that the plone site will talk to.
<lulu> classes of user  - would we not need 2, because a webadmin would need to be saved in the launchpad database too.
<SteveA> An XML-RPC server is like a web server, but instead of serving up documents, it serves up an API that you can call from python code.
<SteveA> the plone site already needs some "managers" defined just in the plone site, separately from launchpad
<SteveA> these are needed to set up the software etc., including the software that allows plone to talk to launchpad
<SteveA> I am suggesting that maybe we can define other users just in plone to act as editors/publishers.  I do not know if this is a workable idea or not, because I don't know much about what the ubuntu website needs to do, and how it uses different roles.
<SteveA> It may be a better idea to have a "WebsiteRoles" table in the database
<SteveA> where we can store the "plone security roles" that a person has on the ubuntu website
<lulu> Steve - simple roles on the website. Contributor and publisher.
<SteveA> are publishers People in launchpad?
<SteveA> how many publishers will there be in total?
<lulu> contributer should be able to add and edit their own content, but the rest is read only
<lulu> publisher - someone in charge of content for the website. A few people like Mako, Jeff, Jane, Mark etc who will need to moderate and accept material for publishing.
<SteveA> how many of them will there be?
<SteveA> if it is just mako, jeff, jane and mark, and that is it, then we can have them defined in plone
<SteveA> if it might be more later, or it might change, then we should define them in launchpad
<lulu> that's not a definitive list - don't know how many at this stage. Perhaps more - I think this should definitely all be defined in launchpad
<SteveA> I'm coming around to the idea that we should store roles in the launchpad database
<SteveA> ok
<lulu> cool
<SteveA> so, we need to talk to mark about adding a suitable table.
<lulu> we are in agreement. So a user in launcpad may have a relationship with the website.
<SteveA> from what roche said, in plone terms, a users has a number of "security roles"
<lulu> Talk to Mark - yes. So we need a list of all the possible roles/relationships in the system and then what their permissions will be.
<lulu> define security roles
<lulu> ?
<SteveA> I can't do that.  Roche used the term.  All I know is that in roche's proposed api, a person has a number of "security roles"
<SteveA> >     roles = Attribute("security roles assigned to user")
<lulu> When you finalise requirements with Roche, I'm sure you'll clarify it with him today?
<SteveA> daf: ping
<SteveA> lulu: I just spoke to mark
<lulu> yes?
<SteveA> we can't change the database at the moment, so initially, the ubuntu website will need to let plone and its zodb manage any distinctions of roles
<SteveA> I'll mail roche, and we'll see what he says.
<lulu> database - how will people log into Rosetta or Malone? is that covered in Launchpad already? via rosetta.ubuntulinux.org and malone.ubuntulinbux.org?
<SteveA> yes, that's covered already
<SteveA> for the alpha, people will access it anonymously, or be able to log in.
<SteveA> they will need to log in to edit / change things
<carlos> SteveA: is it working now? (the login dialog)
<lulu> ok Steve - When will the database be allowed to change next?
<SteveA> probably when stuart gets back
<carlos> SteveA: we cannot use the current production database with final rosetta, will Stub come back before 15th?
<SteveA> what is supposed to happen on the 15th?
<SteveA> The rosetta alpha, which is not using the main database
<cprov> SteveA: sorry, for the interruption, I have some few, but really urgent, patches to apply in DB, could we arrange a faster way to do it ? I mean before 15th.
<SteveA> rob collins is the acting dba
<cprov> SteveA: tks, I will contact him directly
<SteveA> the procedure for getting changes to the db is documented
<SteveA> launchpad/database/schema/README
<carlos> ok, I think I have a concept error. I thought the 15th was the time to release rosetta Phase1 so we could use it to translate Warty
<SteveA> follow the procedure there
<carlos> In fact, I thought that we are late with alpha/beta phase...
<SteveA> https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/RosettaAlpha
<SteveA> that's what I understand is planned to happen on the 15th 
<carlos> SteveA: https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/RosettaSchedule
<carlos> SteveA: the schedule says that 1st of september, the beta is launched, and on 1st of october, the final release is done
<SteveA> that page is clearly out of date
<lulu> guys - we need to update that schedule - taskboard and schedule is responsibility of the team leader. Daf - shall we chat about this and get it up to date?
<carlos> but then, the ubuntu's website launch was moved to 15th of september and I thought that the phase1 release was also moved
<lulu> carlos: yes that's correct.
* carlos is lost with all released dates
<carlos> ok
<lulu> carlos: I'll speak with Daf and get it all up to date. 15 Sept is Alpha release goal.
<carlos> lulu: oohh, I thought that was moved the final release. I thought we were late for the alpha...
* carlos is less stressed now
<lulu> carlos: oops - nope - 15 Sept is when "global"Rosetta should be released for Warty with a hardcoded home page with warty apps to be translated . It should be bug free and working. When was your new Alpha deadline set for? Daf and Steve were managing the process and redefining names etc, so I'm not up to speed.
<lulu> SteveA: Daf needs to update the schedule based on all your discussions.
<SteveA> we discussed an "alpha" with a throw-away database
<SteveA> starting on the 15th
<SteveA> with specific features
<SteveA> as described in RosettaAlpha
<SteveA> this gives us a reasonable goal to work towards, and a useful outcome
<SteveA> translation work will not be wasted, as PO files can be downloaded from it
<SteveA> where is daf?
<SteveA> dafdafdafdafdaf!
<lulu> so when is the new delivery date for Rosetta to be available for Warty apps to be translated online at rosetta.ubuntulinux.org?
<SteveA> we can put the alpha at that address
<SteveA> and put warty apps into it
<SteveA> it just won't be the main database
<SteveA> it will have a different set of Persons who can log in
* SteveA goes to lunch
<lulu> right - so you see the alpha launching with the Ubuntu site then?
* lulu now looking at web design work
<lulu> elmo:ping
<elmo> lulu: yeah?
<lulu> elmo: hi James! Roche answered some questions on the Zope installation via email I had yesterday, and I wondered if you'd had a chance to have a look and action them. 
<elmo> not yet, I've been trying to get the machine orders completed - I can take a look now if it's urgent
<lulu> thank you - yes - it's to do with the Plone products. Thanks - catch u later when you've had a look :o)
<roche> Hi there
<SteveA> hi roche
<SteveA> I'll be back in 30s!
<roche> 'k
<lulu> Hi Roche!
<roche> Hi lu
<roche> Is everything going according to schedule with the sites?
<roche> Are you busy uploading content yet?
<lulu> not according to schedule but we're getting there. 
<roche> Why is there such a rush to get the sites live so quickly?
<lulu> James has just answered your email, so after the convo with Steve, I'd be grateful if we could make sure everything is done.
<roche> Ok
<lulu> Ubunntu the preview release, comes out on the 15th, so we need to get critical content up there.
<lulu> Ubuntu I meant!
<SteveA> so, let's talk about authentication and such
<sabdfl> roche, the name is confidential,  esp in sa
<roche> oik
<roche> ok
<SteveA> hi stu
<lulu> Hi Mark  and Stu :o)
<SteveA> so, we'll make an XML-RPC service available that plone can use to authenticate against
<SteveA> we won't be deleting users at all, so plone shouldn't allow that either
<SteveA> We need to be very clear on what the api is, and that it will work.
<SteveA> Let's look at the API you suggested
<SteveA> >     def getUser(name):
<SteveA> >         """Returns a dictionary with the users data, otherwise returns
<SteveA> >            None.
<SteveA> >         """
<SteveA> if we're using XML-RPC, then I think None will be a problem
<SteveA> but we can return 0 or even {}
<SteveA> what would "name" be?
<roche> The login name
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> >     def addUser(name, **kw):
<SteveA> >         """Adds a user whose id is given as 'user_id'. Additional user
<SteveA> >         data is passed as keyword arguments.
<roche> that's supposed to be "given as 'name'"
<SteveA> we'll be using email address to log in
<SteveA> but, the user will be identified in the database by an integer id
<SteveA> if people change their email address, then it would be good if their id didn't change
<roche> So people cannot choose any username, it must be an email address?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> there is no support in our database at present for a username
<lulu> email address plus password?
<roche> So in the above API, name should really be email_address
<lulu> anyone can access someone else's account with only an email address
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> can we define a few distinct concepts:
<SteveA> * login id:  the id that someone uses to log into plone.  We're using an email address for this.
<lulu> ok
<SteveA> * person id: a user's integer id that will not ever change, even if their name and email address does
<SteveA> * email address: a person will have at least one email address 
<SteveA> that's it
<SteveA> so, plone can ask for a user by login id
<roche> yes
<SteveA> plone needs to get back a dict containing information about the person who has the login id
<SteveA> that dict will include the 'id' which is the person id
<SteveA> if local roles or whatever are stored in plone, then it is the person id that is important
<SteveA> only the database can assign a new person their person id
<SteveA> so, if plone wants to register a new user, the call to newUser() will need to return their person id.  It could return the whole dict, of course.
<SteveA> does this sound like it will work with plone so far?
<roche> yes
<SteveA> ok
<roche> to be clear
<SteveA> we need to decide what goes in the dict
* SteveA listen
* SteveA listens
<roche> plone does not make a distinction between login id and person id so
<roche> the plugin that gets written for exUserFolder will have to aware of this
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> inside the dict will be 'id': person id, 'password': SSHA digested password, 'displayname': full name of the person, 'emailaddresses': list of email addresses
<SteveA> can the rest of the plone member data be stored in the zodb?
<roche> yes, that would simplify things a lot in that we don't have to update the interface for
<roche> member metadata all the time.
<SteveA> getUser(login_id)
<SteveA>     returns user dict
<SteveA> createUser(login_id, ssha_digested_password, displayname, emailaddresses)
<SteveA>     returns user dict
<SteveA> a user dict contains
<SteveA>     id              person id (integer, doesn't change ever)
<SteveA>     password        ssha encrypted password
<SteveA>     displayname     full name, for display
<SteveA>     emailaddresses  list of email addresses
<SteveA> do we need an "editUser" too?
<roche> if want to allow editing of password and email addresses from plone then yes.
<SteveA> hmm
<SteveA> when you do this kind of thing with ldap, does plone basically have free read/write access to the ldap server?
<roche> yes, but it has to authenticate as an administrative LDAP user
<SteveA> so, the ldap password is held in plone
<roche> yes
<SteveA> elmo: ping?
<SteveA> elmo is our sysadmin.  I'd like to ask him what he thinks about this.
<SteveA> hmm
<SteveA> roche: you definitely want the API to return a digested password to you, rather than having to give a digested password?
<elmo> stevea: ?
<SteveA> hi elmo
<roche> no, the password can be encrypted before calling addUser
<roche> in that sense
<SteveA> we will be having a plone server that needs to authenticate and get some data from launchpad
<SteveA> rather than have the plone server directly access the database on emperor, we're going to set up an xml-rpc server
<roche> the server only stores encrypted passwords, it doesn't have to do any encryption itself
<SteveA> so that launchpad can give it just the information it requires
<elmo> stevea: ok...
<SteveA> the api of the xml rpc server we're discussing looks like this:
<SteveA> getUser(login_id)
<SteveA>     returns user dict
<SteveA> createUser(login_id, ssha_digested_password, displayname, emailaddresses)
<SteveA>     returns user dict
<SteveA> a user dict contains
<SteveA>     id              person id (integer, doesn't change ever)
<SteveA>     password        ssha encrypted password
<SteveA>     displayname     full name, for display
<SteveA>     emailaddresses  list of email addresses
<SteveA> roche: I'm wondering whether getUser should require a digested password
<SteveA> at or whether we should have an authUser(login_id, digested_password)
<SteveA> I'm concerned about being able to get the digested password for any user just by asking for it
<SteveA> elmo: we're discussing also having an editUser operation.
<SteveA> elmo: what I'm wondering is what kind of security measures you'd want on this.
<SteveA> the xml rpc server should be accessible from just the plone server, not from the outside world
<roche> what do you do if a users forgets their password if getuser requires a digested password
<SteveA> getUser can require no password
<SteveA> but wouldn't return a password either
<SteveA> but would return the rest of the user dict
<elmo> stevea: where's this xml-rpc server going to live? and is anything other than the plone server(s) going to be using it?
<SteveA> elmo: same machine as launchpad app server.  nothing other than plone server(s)
<stub> Morning
<elmo> stevea: I don't see that it's necessarily got any security requirements beyond the obvious/normal ones, really
<SteveA> elmo: okay, so you're not totally negative about it ;-)
<SteveA> roche: how about this then:
<SteveA> getUser(login_id)
<SteveA>     returns user dict, or empty dict if no such login_id
<SteveA> createUser(login_id, ssha_digested_password, displayname, emailaddresses)
<SteveA>     returns user dict
<SteveA> authUser(login_id, ssha_digested_password)
<SteveA>     returns user dict, or empty dict if not authenticated
<elmo> stevea: well, sure, I am but nobody takes me seriously when I rant about xml-rpc is going to claw out your eyes, and shoot random kittens :(
<SteveA> editUser(login_id, ssha_digested_password, displayname, emailaddresses)
<SteveA>     returns user dict
<SteveA> a user dict contains
<SteveA>     password        ssha encrypted password
<SteveA>     displayname     full name, for display
<SteveA>     emailaddresses  list of email addresses
<SteveA> elmo: sounds a bit extreme
<roche> what's the difference between getUser and authUser?
<SteveA> authUser checks that the password matches the login
<SteveA> getUser gets you the user information
<SteveA> editUser works only if the password matches
<roche> and the password is not included in the dict returned by getUser then?
<SteveA> right
<SteveA> oops, I left it in above
<SteveA> I removed 'id' instead
<SteveA> a user dict contains
<SteveA>     id              person id (integer, doesn't change ever)
<SteveA>     displayname     full name, for display
<SteveA>     emailaddresses  list of email addresses
<roche> so what happens if a user forgets his password?
<SteveA> what would normally happen?
<stub> One thing that may have already been discussed - do we want to add a 'name' column to the database, which can be used as a login name? I was thinking that we might want a unique, short string to display on pages to identify a person rather than the existing displayname, which is not unique (ping me later if this is off topic)
<SteveA> stub: there have been various discussions of this on-list
<SteveA> I proposed deferring this until the soyuz sprint
<roche> either you send them an email with their password (which won't be possible here )
<SteveA> hmm, or you need an api to set the password
<roche> or you generate a temporary password and mail that to them so that they can change there
<roche> password themselves - this is also not possible here
<SteveA> stub: it is a popular idea.  it really needs to pass through mark
<SteveA> stub: mark suggested having a short nickname associated with each "thing" a person is involved in 
<SteveA> stub: like, I'm SteveA most of the time, but there's another SteveA on sourceforge, who isn't me
<SteveA> roche: I think we can say that we won't allow password changes via plone
<SteveA> there will be a way to do this in the launchpad application
<SteveA> so, when that's done, plone can point to there
<roche> ok, that's fine
<SteveA> I'm inclined to say the same thing about changing displayname and email addresses
<SteveA> lulu: what do you think?  Does the plone website need to offer people the ability to change email addresses and displaynames?
<SteveA> I think it would be simpler making people go to the launchpad app for all changes
<SteveA> but to still allow people to sign up for the first time via plone
<lulu> SteveA: if Ubuntu is to be the link in to all the tools for ubuntu, i think that would be useful...
<SteveA> the ubuntu site will be linking to the person's dashboard on launchpad
<SteveA> the ubuntu site can also link to the person's "change my details" page on launchpad
<lulu> yes - but to the user, they think it's the ubuntu dashboard
<lulu> yes - makes sense to me and seamless for the user
<SteveA> ok, then that keeps the API, and roche's work, simpler
<SteveA> and means that it is less possible to do bad things via xml-rpx
<SteveA> so, one last time...
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> getUser(login_id)
<SteveA>     returns user dict if login_id exists, otherwise empty dict
<SteveA> authUser(login_id, ssha_digested_password)
<SteveA>     returns user dict if authenticated, otherwise empty dict
<SteveA> createUser(login_id, ssha_digested_password, displayname, emailaddresses)
<SteveA>     returns user dict
<SteveA> a user dict contains
<SteveA>     id              person id (integer, doesn't change ever)
<SteveA>     displayname     full name, for display
<SteveA>     emailaddresses  list of email addresses
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> spiv: can you write a Twisted XML-RPC service that offers that API to the launchpad database?
<SteveA> hmm, I guess we don't need login_id in createUser
<lulu> one question....from a user perspective - However the backend handles registration, the user doesn't need to know. To them it should be the same thing. 
<SteveA> what's the question?
<lulu> do they enter email address and password (design purposes - number of login text boxes required)
<lulu> Log into plone = basic launchpad. When we need further security, will it be a javascript login like on warthogs?
<lulu> or now will it be the same thing?
<SteveA> there is no javascript login
<lulu> so via the web interface - email address and password?
<SteveA> do you mean the box asking for username and password that your browser pops up?
<lulu> yup - but only for https
<SteveA> that's not javascript.  that's your browser doing basic authentication or digest authentication
<lulu> thanks for clarifying
<SteveA> in plone, there will be a webpage with a form to log in
<lulu> home page - little portlet
<SteveA> in launchpad, there will initially not be this, but instead the dialog that the browser pops up.  later, we'll do cookie authentication
<SteveA> with a login form for launchpad
<lulu> oh - sorry - you mean register......not login for the plone site.
* SteveA waits to hear from roche and spiv
<roche> API seems fine
<SteveA> great.  I'll mail this shortly.
<spiv> SteveA: at a glance, yes, will do more than glance when workrave lets me :)
<lulu> Roche - please could you amend your quote accordingly and resend thereafter. Tx :o)
<roche> will do so
<roche> are we done?
<SteveA> yes, thanks!
<lulu> roche: could you and James ensure all is ok with the plone products please. Tx :o)
<roche> I'll have a look at his mail now
<lulu> much obliged
<roche> keep well everybody, cheers.
<lulu> SteveA: thank you for finalising this :o)
<SteveA> spiv: ping?
<carlos> I'm confused
<carlos> When I try to execute a python script I'm writing I get:
<carlos> from: can't read /var/mail/zope.component.tests.placelesssetup
<carlos> from: can't read /var/mail/canonical.database.sqlbase
<carlos> from: can't read /var/mail/canonical.rosetta.sql
<carlos> from: can't read /var/mail/sqlobject
<carlos> from: can't read /var/mail/optparse
<carlos> I'm not at /var/mail and my PYTHONPATH env var points to /home/carlos/Work/launchpad/lib/
<spiv> carlos: You have /var/mail on your $PYT -- oh.
<spiv> Well, it looks like something is adding /var/mail to python's sys.path :)
<carlos> carlos@frodo ~/Work/rosetta/scripts $ export PYTHONPATH=/home/carlos/Work/launchpad/lib/
<carlos> carlos@frodo ~/Work/rosetta/scripts $ ./createuser.py --help
<SteveA> spiv: can you write an XML-RPC server, using twisted, to the api I mailed out?
<spiv> SteveA: Yes, when do you want it by?
<SteveA> friday morning?
<SteveA> is that too much of a stretch?
<spiv> Ok, that should be easily achievable, I think.
<spiv> Unless other things get in the way...
<spiv> I should do a proper estimate for it, I guess :)
<SteveA> please do
<SteveA> spiv: I filed a bug on it for you
<daf> spiv: you're arriving here on Thursday?
<spiv> daf: I was, but I've just been informed that there's a spare ticket to a TMBG concert that evening.
<daf> spiv: wow!
<spiv> daf: So it now looks like I'm arriving Friday ;)
<daf> spiv: cool, enjoy the show :)
<daf> spiv: have you seen them live before?
<spiv> Yeah, twice in Sydney.
<daf> they are really good live
<spiv> When they were touring to promote Mink Car.
<daf> I saw them around the same time
<daf> it was just before it was released, I think
<daf> (in the UK, that is)
<doko> stevea: around?
<debonzi> spiv, are you around?
<jblack> spiv: Ping
<spiv> debonzi, jblack: Hi, sorry, I really need to sleep.  Catch you guys tomorrow.
#launchpad 2004-09-19
<carlos> "morning"
<daf> heh :)
<daf> did you have an exam?
<carlos> daf: I had, but I was not able to do it
<carlos> I did not finished a program I need to do the exam
<carlos> and I went to sleep at 6:00AM
<daf> ouch
<carlos> yes, really sad
<carlos> I hate powerbuilder!!!
<carlos> it's the second time I have this problem
<kiko> there are worse things in life
<carlos> kiko: I know
<daf> powerbuilder?
<carlos> daf: yes, the program they request use should be developed with powerbuilder
<carlos> grr, I really hate xchat's autocompletation
<carlos> or perhaps was my problem ... 
<carlos> well, back to work, that's the important thing...
<daf> indeed
<kiko> SteveA, debonzi is hung up with tla again
<kiko> SteveA, any hope we can get some traction on the issue asap?
<daf> carlos: shall we talk about tasks for a bit?
<carlos> daf: yes, please. 
<daf> kiko: I think it's dependent on ddaa
<kiko> daf, ugh, really?
<daf> kiko: from listening in #canonical
<carlos> daf: We should add all remaining ones to bugzilla so we could see what's missing easily
<daf> carlos: good idea
<carlos> daf: here or should we move to #rosetta?
<daf> I think here is ok
<carlos> ok
<daf> what are we missing from Bugzilla?
<SteveA> kiko: I saw lifeless and ddaa discussing it on #canonical.  I saw that lifeless asked ddaa to make it a priority.
<kiko> okay, because we're blocked by tla (once again)
<SteveA> carlos: we're not using #rosetta any more
<carlos> daf: the import of all projects we have already inside arch
<carlos> SteveA: ok
<SteveA> kiko: you can still write code, although it will be outside the SCM system.
<daf> carlos: hmm, this doesn't really feel like something that belongs in bugzilla
<carlos> it's a task
<kiko> SteveA, writing code and not committing frequently with arch seems to be a recipe for disaster in our experience :)
<carlos> if we are going to use it as task/bug tracking, I think it belongs to bugzilla
<SteveA> kiko: I can't offer any help above what ddaa can do for you.
<daf> I suppose so, but it feels like abusing bugzilla a bit :)
<kiko> sure, I'm just communicating our situation.
<carlos> daf: It's something that blocks the alpha release :-)
<SteveA> thanks.  I understand that it is extremely frustrating.
<daf> carlos: is there anything else?
<carlos> daf: we also need to add "Request new project page"
<kiko> we'll find some more offline work we can do meanwhile.
<SteveA> ok, thanks.
<carlos> and " View recently translated projects on the translator dashboard."
<daf> okay, can you make it a task to file bugs for these things?
<carlos> daf: and I think that nothing more is missing from RosettaAlpha page
<carlos> daf: sure.
<carlos> well, the import projects from arch...
<carlos> has some tasks like the scripts to do it
<carlos> the main one that imports .po/.pot files is done 
<carlos> but we need one to create projects and products
<daf> I need to file a bug for the import code
<daf> the import script isn't working for me: all the sequence numbers in the template I import are 0
<daf> I think it's some sort of SQLObject problem
<carlos> daf: I filed some bugs about the export also
<carlos> seems like the code is not in sync with latest interface
<daf> I think I've fixed the export
<daf> but the traversal is not working
<carlos> did you saw bugzilla's bug #1912? is it fixed ?
<daf> yeah, I saw it
<carlos> daf: I was not able to test the traversal because the export bugs
<daf> I think it is fixed
<daf> I will commit and merge soon
<carlos> daf: ok, I will review then the traversal code and finish it
<carlos> is the #1909 also fixed?
<carlos> (the one about the % problem)
<SteveA> back in about an hour
<daf> it hasn't been merged yet
<daf> stub has a fix which we can use
<daf> if we use his Zope branch, there's no problem
<carlos> daf: then I think that's the problem with the traversal to export .po files. But I will review it in case it's another problem...
<carlos> daf: what's lalo working on now?
<daf> I don't know
<daf> I haven't heard from lalo since Friday
<carlos> Could I assume that any task that it's not assigned at bugzilla to lalo is free to implement?
<carlos> hmm
<carlos> ok
<daf> at the moment, anything is up for grabs
<daf> feel free to assign bugs to yourself
<carlos> daf: who is importing code to arch?
<carlos> because I suppose we need to talk with them and know how to get the source to feed our database
<daf> not sure: lifeless or lamont or thom?
<carlos> daf: I forgot another task, we need to create the webpage with the list of projects/products from Ubuntu 
<daf> okay, it's another bug then
<carlos> well, and of course, we need "limi's magic" to all pages before release
<carlos> I will see if he has a bugzilla account
<carlos> and I will add also that bug
<daf> the export fix looks like this: http://muse.19inch.net/~daf/misc/export-fix.patch
<daf> does it look sane?
<daf> carlos: ?
<carlos> daf: looking
<carlos> daf: yes, I think it's valid
<daf> in that case, I'll merge it now
<carlos> my question about it is, should that file use the sqlobject api or only the interfaces?
<daf> the exporter should not know anything about SQLObject, I think
<daf> it shouldn't need to
<carlos> ok
<carlos> daf: anything else?
<carlos> daf: who should be the initial owner of the tasks I'm going to add?
<daf> me
<carlos> ok
<daf> unless you know it's something you're going to work on yourself
<daf> in which case it's you :)
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> daf: we should use the QA field
<daf> how does that work?
<carlos> daf: it's someone that gets the bug reports like the owner and it's useful to track the fixes
<carlos> and follow the status of the tasks
<daf> it's like a CC?
<carlos> usually,  the project owner is the one added there
<carlos> daf: more or less
<carlos> daf: but it's added by default always
<daf> ok
<daf> where do we set it?
<carlos> I don't know if you have the rights to do it, you should edit the launchpad product
<carlos> and select the rosetta module
<daf> I'm not sure if I have rights to do that
<carlos> there you have a default assigned and the default QA
<carlos> another option is to use an alias for the team so we can know the status of the bugs
<daf> let's try the QA thing for now
<daf> justdave: about?
<justdave> daf: yep
<daf> justdave: did you follow that about QA?
<justdave> not exactly...  you want someone added to the qa for rosetta, but I didn't follow who. :)
<justdave> conversation looks like you, but you're already the owner
<justdave> but that would make sense if you're trying to stay in the loop even if someone else takes the bug
<kiko> or maybe a rosetta-bugs mailing list so everyone can stay in the loop if they want to.
<daf> kiko: hmm, maybe
* daf has fun with Bugzilla charts
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/chart.cgi?category=-All-&subcategory=-All-&name=181&select0=1&label0=Open+Launchpad+bugs&line0=133&datefrom=&dateto=&action-wrap=Chart+This+List
<daf> justdave: is it possible to save charts?
<daf> justdave: it would be nice to have "open Launchpad bugs" and "open Rosetta bugs" charts
<justdave> people keep asking that, and Gerv keeps telling them "just bookmark it"
<justdave> I had to fight him to keep saved queries :)
<daf> saved queries are very useful
<daf> I think application-specific bookmarks make sense
<daf> it's the same in Rosetta - you want to find certain things quickly
<justdave> Easiest thing for us to do right now is probably just collect the URLs for the ones we want, and stick up a static page with the links on it.
<daf> that would do the job
<carlos> daf: I think we have all tasks now at bugzilla
* daf looks at the flood of Bugzilla mails in his inbox
<daf> I hope so :)
<carlos> daf: :-P
<lalo> hello
<jblack> debonzi: ping
<kiko-fud> jblack, he's out of office right now, how's it going?
<jblack> Its going well. I've got a fix ready for him.
<lalo> hey James
<jblack> lalo! 
<kiko-fud> jblack, cool, can you use email, perhaps to launchpad, summarizing and providing the fix?
<jblack> Um, well, the thing about this sort of fix is that its probably not right for you guys to do it unattended.
<jblack> the solution involves artfully dodging race conditions.
<jblack> For a longterm fix, tla needs to change.
<kiko-fud> maybe I don't want to know after all :)
<spiv> Yow :)
<SteveA> oh.  we broke tom lord's arch...
<jblack> Nope.
<carlos> lalo: hi
<lalo> hey carlos
<lulu> lalo: howzit
<jblack> You guys are just frequently bumping into a edge case in star-merge. 
<lalo> lulu: not sure yet, I'll tell you in a few minutes after I'm done merging :-P
<lulu> lalo:good to hear you're merging! :o)
<lalo> oh, found the thing I wanted in the merge. Then I can answer you, all is well :-D
<lalo> I was worried I had introduced a bug Friday that would require me a few hours of hunting down - but no, it was just a typo and is already fixed by Daf
<carlos> lalo: we are using now bugzilla to track the pending tasks/bugs
<carlos> lalo: I suppose your mailbox knows it already  :-P
<lalo> I know
<lalo> yes :-)
* lalo figuring out how to procmail it
<daf> lalo: good to have you back :)
<lalo> daf: thanks
<lalo> but I wasn't gone for long, just an unexpectedly extended holiday :-P
* lalo kisses bugzilla
<lalo> hey Mark
<daf> carlos: can you check whether #1912 is fixed?
<carlos> daf: already done :-P
<daf> carlos: and is it?
<carlos> daf: the export still fails because the #1909
<daf> oh, right
<carlos> daf: yes, seems like it's working
<daf> I'll change the server
<daf> to use stub's branch
<carlos> daf: which branch is it?
* carlos wants to change it also in his computer
<daf> stuart.bishop@canonical.com/zope--percentfix--3.0
<carlos> ok
<carlos> thanks
<carlos> when will it be integrated into the default branch?
<lalo> does the "make testdb" target still apply all necessary scripts to have a working testing database?
<lalo> my ftests are failing with some funny postgres errors that suggest by db is incomplete
<daf> carlos: when lifeless gets around to it
<carlos> lalo: make launchpad_test at launchpad/database/schema should work
<carlos> daf: ok
<lalo> carlos: that's exactly what "make testdb" is a wrapper for :-/ doesn't work for me
<lalo>     ProgrammingError: ERROR:  column translationeffortpotemplate.id does not exist
<lalo> daf: yay, thanks!
<daf> lalo: hmm?
<lalo> your new bug explains the old one, I think :-)
<daf> oh, right :)
<lalo> I believe, when looking for whether to insert a new msgset or update an existing one, it must be missing the existing one due to it having sequence 0
<carlos> lalo: do you have a sampledata-rosetta.sql inside the database directory and an empty sampledata.sql file ?
<lalo> yes
<carlos> then I don't know where is the problem, I did a rebuild of my database about 30 minutes ago...
<carlos> it should work
<daf> carlos: okay, the development server is now using stub's branch -- can you try again?
<carlos> sure
<carlos> daf: I get the file
<daf> great!
<daf> I'll close the bug
<carlos> I need to check if it's correct :-)
<carlos> daf: perfect
<daf> :)
<daf> carlos: can you also do some testing of submitting/updating translations through the web?
<lalo> daf: do you have a preference on how to fix this? Should potemplate/pofile have methods that return a given msgset *even if* it has sequence 0?
<carlos> hmm seems like all works execpt for this bug:
<carlos> #: a11y/addressbook/ea-minicard-view.c:101
<carlos> msgid "current addressbook folder"
<carlos> msgstr[0]  "carpeta de libretas de direcciones actual"
<lalo> this bug was, I as expected, introduced by removing the allowOld semantics :-)
<carlos> all translations are exported that way 
<lalo> carlos: oh
<carlos> daf: yes, I will do it in some minutes
<carlos> lalo: https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/export.po
<daf> lalo: well, since new translations from the web have sequence=0, you quite often need to deal with 0-sequenced message sets
<lalo> carlos: I think the current way the adapters work is a bit baffling for the pofile's __unicode__ method
<daf> carlos: if the export is broken, can you file a bug?
<lalo> carlos: if there isn't a bug, please submit it, I'll fix next thing
<carlos> daf: and the traversal algorithm I did fails O:-)
<carlos> daf: sure
<carlos> lalo: sure
<carlos> :-)
<carlos> daf: are you happy with the .po/.mo URL: https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com/++skin++Debug/rosetta/projects/gnome/evolution/evolution-2.0/es/po
<lalo> daf: then pofile.__getitem__ should not require that sequence > 0
<carlos> ?
<lalo> what about potemplate? a template msgset with sequence 0 is, in theory, obsolete
<daf> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=1915 is fun
<lalo> pofile.__getitem__ is ok (not broken), so this is just about templates
<daf> carlos: yeah, that would be sufficient
<carlos> ok
<daf> lalo: I suspect that there are a few bogus "WHERE sequence > 0" in the SQL code
<daf> I think I fixed a few
<lalo> but in the case of potemplate.__getitem__ it's not bogus
<lalo> well, before I do anything I must find why my database doesn't want to run the tests :-)
* carlos goes to get some food
<daf> lalo: how is your laptop now?
<lalo> non-existent :-)
<daf> lalo: how is your desktop now?
<daf> :)
<lalo> healthy
<daf> that's good to hear
<lalo> new mobo, 512 ram... there are still some some disagreements between hardware and drivers, but I'm not in a hurry to fix those
<lalo> (eg my video card thinks my monitor is widescreen, so I'm at 1024x512 :-P but that doesn't affect work, so it's ok)
<carlos> daf: I don't see a way to see the spaces when translating strings from rosetta...
<daf> carlos: oh, yeah, I had forgotten about that
<daf> carlos: I tried replacing all spaces with a space marker
<daf> but that causes nasty problems with wrapping
<daf> so I decided it would probably be ok to only mark leading and trailing spaces
<lalo> well, I think I fixed it - now I have to become able to run the tests :-)
<daf> but I haven't done that yet, so could you file a bug?
<daf> lalo: fixed what?
<carlos> daf: sure
<lalo> aha
<lalo> carlos: can you run the ftests?maybe my db is fine but the ftests are not
<carlos> lalo: ok, just a minute I finish testing translations from rosetta
<lalo> np
<carlos> daf: ok, the translation works
<carlos> daf: could you check it's already inside the database?
<daf> carlos: hmm?
<daf> carlos: if it's showing you the translations you put in, it works
<daf> carlos: you could also test it by doing an export
<carlos> daf: it's a way to test if it's not stored into the python objects
<daf> carlos: sorry?
<carlos> daf: I mean, I want to be sure that the information we get is stored into the database instead of being persistent data stored into python objects
<carlos> that will be lost when launchpad is killed
<daf> carlos: I think the database object are destroyed at the end of the request
<daf> carlos: sorry, Python objects
<carlos> ok
<carlos> daf: I detected some bugs, filling them now
<daf> great, thanks
<lalo> pff.
<lalo> daf: re "fixed what?" - 1905
<daf> lalo: ah, great!
<daf> what was the problem?
<lalo> what I just said
<lalo>         try:
<lalo>             msgset = self.potemplate[msgid] 
<lalo>         except KeyError:
<lalo>             msgset = self.potemplate.createMessageSetFromText(msgid)
<daf> oh, I see
<lalo> potemplate.__getitem__ ignores sets with sequence=0, so it will insert a duplicate
<lalo> I added a new method that doesn't :-( do minimize code duplication, I made __getitem__ a wrapper around this new method
<daf> potemplate.createMessageSetFromText should have probably check against duplication
<lalo> hmm yes
* daf is going out for the evening
<lalo> the code that did that was removed together with allowOld :-P I'll re-add it
<lalo> ok, cya tomorrow
<daf> I'll be back later
<lalo> cya later then :-)
<daf> and I'll probably be up until some strange hour in the morning :)
<carlos> daf: later!!
<lalo> actually the method shouldn't *have to* check for duplicates... the db should be raising an error
<daf> lalo: hmm, if it's possible for the database to do that, it should
<carlos> lalo: there are still some unique keys missing
<lalo> daf: that's what unique is for
<lalo> and createMessageIDSighting() should *definitely* "allowOld" by default - everything will become too hairy if it doesn't
<SteveA> sabdf1: ping.  just tried to phone you.
<lalo> or maybe not, dunno. We'll get back to it later if it causes a problem :-P (yagni)
<daf> I'm getting concerned about update=False and allowOld=False and things like this
<daf> but I'm not going to worry about it too much now
<lalo> getting concerned? I thought these were already removed from existence
<daf> I think there are still a few left
<daf> I'm also a bit worried about having .encode('utf-8') sprinkled over the code
<lalo> we shouldn't
<daf> carlos: #1938 and #1939 are interesting
<lalo> technically sqlo is already fixed wrt unicode
<daf> no, we shouldn't -- that's why I'm worried :)
<lalo> you can, if you wish, schedule a task to "remove these one by one and see which ones are still necessary"
<carlos> phone
<lalo> then find why they are necessary and report them to spiv :-)
<lalo> I suspect we will find that they can all be gone
<spiv> Hmm? :)
<spiv> Where are these?
<lalo> places where we avoid passing unicodes to sqlo
<lalo> I think as of now sqlo is already smart enough to deal with unicodes all the time
* daf gone
<lalo> yeah, well, 1905 is fixed indeed - the test still doesn't pass due to 1935 :-(
<lalo> carlos: I need a way to test 1936 locally :-)
<carlos> lalo: change rosetta... with localhost :-P
<lalo> are the hooks in-place enough that that would work?
<lalo> traversal hooks I mean
<lalo> what a silly question, seeing as rosetta.w.h.c runs from rocketfuel :-P
<carlos> lalo: the export.po is not the final traversal we will use
<carlos> but it works for testing the export code
<carlos> it will be fixed always to the Spanish translation
<lalo> ok
<lalo> thx
<lalo> anyway I'll first prod the ftest till it runs
<lalo> fortunately the ftest output is smart enough to tell me whether the bug is fixed :-)
<carlos> I'm going to test it now here (I was changing somethings from my launchpad installation)
<lalo> the ftests are lost wrt. RosettaProject vs. xxxRosettaProject
<carlos> lalo: FAILED (failures=3, errors=2)
<carlos> lalo: I think you should use DBProject instead of xxxRosettaProject
<carlos> that was part of the SteveA's move to global objects across launchpad applications
* lalo shrugs
<lalo> for the tests, whatever works is ok
<SteveA> don't use the classes with xxx in the names
<SteveA> they will be removed soon
<SteveA> pretend they aren't there
<carlos> SteveA: are you going to do it with the other objects or should we schedule a task to do it?
<SteveA> I have many other classes done in the code on my machine
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> if it is blockingn any of your work, then file a bugzilla bug on it
<lalo> carlos: 404?  o.O
<carlos> lalo: :-?
<lalo> ah, nm
<lalo> I had an error, then inserted  the debug skin to see what the error was, and got 404
<lalo> but it was because I typed "debug" wrong :-P
<lalo> actually... what is the incantation to get debugging, again? Wasn't it either ++skin++debug or ++skin++Debug?
<carlos> the later
<carlos>  /++skin++Debug/rosetta....
<lalo> 404 :-/ seems I have no skin named Debug
<carlos> lalo: you need to copy a file
<carlos> let me check it...
<carlos> I think it's canonical.debugskin-configure.zcml
<carlos> but I don't remember if it's from launchpad/package-includes to launchpad/lib/canonical/ or from the second to the first
<carlos> lalo: check where do you have it and copy/link it to the other directory :-)
<lalo> yes :-)
<lalo> thanks
<carlos> no problem 
* lalo cries
<lalo> I'm getting 1909 now
<lalo> what the heck, the ftest is proof enough that the bug is fixed for me
<carlos> lalo: it's fixed if you get zope from stuart's branch
<lalo> ok, thanks
<lalo> confirmed, 1936 fixed
<carlos> lalo: perfect!!
<lalo> ...and merged
* lalo looks at the bug list in search of inspiration wrt what to do next :-)
<carlos> lalo: if you detect any missing task, just add it there, please
<carlos> blocking the 1915 if it should be fixed before the alpha release
<lalo> ok. But I haven't, yet.
<lalo> (detected missing tasks, I mean)
<lalo> I think I'll try to unearth 1935
* jblack reads the star-merge -H help and puts "rewrite star merge help on his todo list.
<jblack> I'm not convinced that is even english.
<carlos> jblack: X-)
<jblack> The first half of it is fine, but then it dives off into lawyereese.
<lalo> one down, one last to go :-P
#launchpad 2005-09-19
* bradb adds a distro sp bug listing and filebug page, gets ready to review the URL changes (and a million other fixes) diff
<sabdfl> good work bradb
<lifeless> sabdfl: revisions 2121/2373 1:09:24
<lifeless> hiatus while I went to the xtc meeting
<lifeless> will let it run overnight, but I have high hopes
<sabdfl> lifeless: no ways, still 1:09?
<bradb> there's some improvements i'd like to jump in on right after this branch lands, like adding a sane distro sp details portlet (the DR SP doesn't feel right for a DSP, to me)
<lifeless> sabdfl: yeah, it was suspended :)
<sabdfl> bradb: i will do fresh content objects for D+SPN, DR+SPN, etc soon
<bradb> noted
<sabdfl> lifeless: if it crashes, can you resume it gracefully?
<lifeless> sabdfl: no, though you can run it in segments and resume frm those
<mdz> kiko: wasn't I supposed to get a langpack export a few "tomorrows" ago?
<mpool> #malone
<mpool> hi, BjornT or bradb?
<bradb> mpool: hi
<mpool> hi bradb
<mpool> so we'd like to start tracking bzr bugs on malone
<mpool> as you (probably) know, we have two codebases in one product, with one of them probably fading away
<mpool> how should we set this up in malone
<mpool> the main requirement is that users or developers interested in the bzr python codebase should never see baz bugs
<mpool> and vice versa
<mpool> it would be confusing and annoying if they get mixed in together
<mpool> should we just create two products, or is there some way to keep them separate within one product?
<mpool> oh, maybe we should have two products inside one project?
<bradb> There's already a bazaar product in Malone
<mpool> yes i know
<mpool> but there doesn't seem to be any way to segregate bugs within it?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=SteveA]  clean up spec tracker pages (patch-2403: mpt@canonical.com)
<bradb> mpool: Nope. Can you just create another product specific to bzr?
<mpool> sure
<mpool> just wanted to check if i was missing something
<mpool> thanks!
<bradb> no prob
<mpool> btw, what do you expect the weather will be like at UBZ?
<bradb> mpool: slightly BZ probably :)
<mpool> but not -10 yet?
<bradb> possibly, but i wouldn't expect that to be the average at that time of year
<mpool> thanks
<bradb> "124 files changed, 2033 insertions(+), 1107 deletions(-)" -- in BjornT's queue now
<lifeless> night all
<lifeless> sabdfl: looking good : revisions 2307/2373 0:18:08
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=SteveA]  clean up spec tracker pages (patch-2404)
* bradb & # out
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=SteveA]  clean up spec tracker pages (patch-2405)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0: [trivial]  Next production config (patch-112: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix production version number in config (patch-113: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: Cherry pick patch-2399 into production (patch-1: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: Cherry pick patch-2400 into production (patch-2: mpt@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Switch on db_statement_timeout in production Launchpad instances (patch-2406: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<stub> Anyone going to bitch loudly if I take Launchpad down now for upgrades? Might be two hours or so this time.
<spiv> stub: Database too?
<stub> Yup
<spiv> Hmm, the authserver might be an issue for some people :/
<stub> Need to do a full dump/restore I've been putting off for a while
<lifeless> think of the children
<spiv> I should implement AuthServerCaching, I guess ;
<spiv> ;)
<stub> spiv: I think that is pretty much in my court for 'setup a read only replica'
* spiv quickly re-reads the spec
* spiv smiles at Moin: "/!\The authentication database is temporarily unavailable. Anonymous access only."
<spiv> stub: Hmm, there's a small amount of authserver code required too :)
<stub> But I think I've worked out how to do that with a minimum of hassle, but need to clear out a few other tasks first. Will give steve his readonly db too.
<stub> spiv: Yer, but that will only take you a few minutes ;)
<spiv> Heh.
<SteveA> morning people
<stub> hail
<stub> And SteveA can see the launchpad down for maintenance page right now if he likes
<stub> Pitty Pound roots it by sticking its own headers at the top
<SteveA> ewww
<SteveA> does it *have* to?
<jamesh> it is probably a simple matter of code to fix it
<stub> Looks like it. We could hack Pound (and then we would need to repackage it for installation), or just do it in Apache.
<spiv> Eek, gotta go...
* spiv -> yoga
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Tweak Gina warning levels (patch-2407: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<mdke> hi all
<mdke> what is the ETA for lp being back?
<SteveA> 20 mins
<mdke> thanks
<sivang> Morning all!
<Kinnison> stub: did you mean to merge the fix-whitespace stuff in -2407?
<stub> That's fine. PQM just ate my previous [trivial]  on that branch.
<Kinnison> righ
<Kinnison> +t
<Kinnison> just thought I'd point it out in case it wasn't meant to have happened
<lifeless> Kinnison: are you coming up tonight ?
<Kinnison> lifeless: No, tomorrow morning
* Kinnison is literally just doing the day
<lifeless> Kinnison: K
* Kinnison expects to hit the office ca. 9.30 to 9.45
<Kinnison> any earlier and I'd have to leave tonight practically
<Kinnison> and I have a date with a steel rule and a circular saw tonight
<Kinnison> gotta prepare the kitchen for having the floor put in
<sivang> Kinnison: into home improvements eh? :)
<sivang> Kinnison: howdy 
<mdke> jordi, around?
<Kinnison> sivang: aye
<mdke> SteveA, how about now?
<sabdfl> stub: ping
<stub> sabdfl: Pong
<sabdfl> stub: can i privmsg you a db patch?
<jordi> mdke: for a few mins
<mdke> jordi, we have a huge problem with the faqguide.pot :/
<stub> paste is better -- https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/ 
<jordi> mdke: really? what is it?
<mdke> jordi, launchpad is down so I can't show you it in rosetta, but if you go to sg you a db patch?
<mdke> argh
<mdke> start again
<jordi> yeah, I can't parse that at all :D
<mdke> if you go to https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/generic/faqguide/C/faqguide.pot
<jordi> ok
<mdke> jordi, then search for installing-applications.xml:10(para)
<jordi> done
<mdke> that line is totally ridiculously long and includes a number of paragraphs in the actual text
<jordi> wow
<jordi> there's "See . " stuff in there.
<jordi> Have you contacted shaunm about it?
<jordi> I suspect somethign in your xml is not so good.
<jordi> wher'es the xml?
<mdke> jordi, i pinged him now
<jordi> I see it
<mdke> https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/branches/breezy/generic/faqguide/C/installing-applications.xml
<mdke> jordi, moving channel
<jordi> #docs?
<mdke> jordi, what really worries me is that if we use a different utility to create a better pot file, then upload it, a lot of translation will be lost :/
<stub> SteveA: ping
<sabdfl> stub: mailed
<sabdfl> mdke, jordi: PO is really not ideal for documents
<sabdfl> but i can't think of a better plan right no9w
<mdke> :(
<sabdfl> stub: s/person/owner/g
<stub> lifeless: If there are no dependancies of cscsv on launchpad, why do we need to run cscvs tests when we commit launchpad changes? It would be impossible for a launchpad commit to stop cscsv tests passing.
<mdke> sabdfl, jordi, i don't know whether I should send an email to warn translators to stop translating the guide until the issue with the pot is resolved, what do you think?
<lifeless> stub: eh? cscvs uses lp interfaces
<stub> It does? Ahh bugger
<lifeless> are you referring to the race condition with nc ?
<stub> sabdfl: Argh.... a diff. Now I need to strip all the '+' signs :-(
<sabdfl> stub: if you are happy with the comments i can send you the patch directly
<sabdfl> sorry, the .sql file
<stub> sabdfl: Nah - got it. 
* stub is a master of vim
<stub> sabdfl: Looks fine. patch-25-26-0.sql. 
<sabdfl> stub: super, thanks
<stub> sabdfl: (pending the person->owner change of course)
<sabdfl> stub: done
<jordi> mdke: maybe it's wise. Let's see if you get something from the mailing list.
<jordi> Hopefully you will
* Kinnison workraves :-(
<Kinnison> anyone want to review a quick publisher change?
<Kinnison> It's a touch large to [trivial]  but it needs to get in fairly soon
<Kinnison> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileiJyx2B.html
<Kinnison> It's d-i support for the C.A.P.
<lifeless> pep8ness
<lifeless> self._has_di, not _hasdi
<lifeless> dituples->di_tuples
<lifeless> also tup and tuples are really hirrble variable names
<lifeless> what is a didr ?
<lifeless> whats a comp ?
<Kinnison> a didr is a debian_installer_distrorelease
<lifeless> if you have to explain it, the variable name is probably wrong
<Kinnison> the variable's existence is there purely because otherwise the line is too long
<Kinnison> I wanted to do self._has_di.setdefault(dr, Set()).add(comp)
<Kinnison> but that wraps
<Kinnison> and I think it's less ugly to use a temp var than to split it on the comma
<lifeless> its also pretty darn opaque
<Kinnison> I'd docstring self._has_di if you could do that sort of thing
<lifeless> I didn't critque the temp vars existnece, I critiqued its name
<lifeless> you'll have less problems with line wrapping if you write smaller functions too
<Kinnison> Hmm
<Kinnison> Okay, I'll tidy up the pep8ness and try and make the stuff more understandable
<lifeless> so rather than a detailed review, I suggest you read it out loud to a teddy bear.
<lifeless> and anytime its face gets blank, make the code more clear
* Kinnison points out that he pair-programmed this with freddybear anyway
* Kinnison waves freddy at lifeless
<lifeless> freddybear obviously knows too much about buildds
<Kinnison> He helped me write the publisher :-)
<mdke> jordi, mailed
<jordi> mdke: the list?
<jordi> oh, the translators.
<jordi> let's hope we can resolve this ASAP
<mdke> everything :D
<mdke> jordi, i'm going to try the kde util and see if the pot file is any better
<jordi> mdke: xml2po was missing info, or was it just doing huge para's?
<jordi> mdke: nod
<mdke> jordi, both I think
<jordi> let's see what you find out
<jordi> maybe <answer> confuses it.
<Kinnison> What's the dict iterator which gives you key,value tuples?
<Kinnison> is it .items()
<Kinnison> ?
<lifeless> ddping
<mdke> jordi, yes, it may not support qanda set
<mdke> jordi, can you push my mail through to rosetta-users, it needs to be moderated
<jordi> in a min
<mdke> thanks
<mdke> it hasn't got through to any list :/
<mdke> i'll cancel and try again
<jordi> yours is accepted
<mdke> thanks
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, thx
<SteveA> stub: pong
<stub> SteveA: We are still getting lockups. Looks like long running or blocked queries.
<stub> SteveA: Possibly update-stats.py is the culprit
<SteveA> interesting.  why would that lock up the webapp?  because the postgres backend is so busy?
<SteveA> or are some tables locked?
<stub> SteveA: If a process has updated rows, but not committed, anything selecting on that table will block
<SteveA> does update-stats.py do that?  as in, not commit for a while after updating stuff?
<SteveA> if you selectively kill off cron jobs, does the webapp return?
<stub> SteveA: Yes. But I'm not 100% sure yet.
<stub> SteveA: It might also be these rosetta queries too just taking too long
<SteveA> well, i can't access launchpad.net now
<SteveA> can you kill all cron scripts ?
<SteveA> would the DB need bouncing too?
<Kinnison> lifeless: is https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file9TWzrW.html better?
<SteveA> has_di ?
<SteveA> what's a "di" >?
<SteveA> comment or better variable name please
<lifeless> ahahaha
<lifeless> Kinnison: see!
<lifeless> Kinnison: still very opaque. steve's commend is right on
<lifeless> s/mend/ment
<lifeless> Kinnison: i.e. whats a di_tuple ? really, what does it _mean_ not what typ eit is.
<Kinnison> okies
* Kinnison tries not to assume that anyone playing in the publisher will understand what di is
* Kinnison goes through to add comments
<lifeless> better names >> comments
<Kinnison> so _has_debian_installer_inside_components_for_distrorelease ?
<Kinnison> I'm all for good variable names for simple things :-)
<lifeless> I don't get whaat has debian installer inside components for distrorelease means
<lifeless> tell me about this, here, in englihsh
<lifeless> I'll try and translate to english.
<Kinnison> Okay
<Kinnison> so each distrorelease has a bunch of components in it
<Kinnison> some of those components will contain binaries which are for debian-installer rather than the distrorelease itself
<Kinnison> we have to note down which components of which distroreleases have debian-installer bits in them so that we can construct the correct configuration for apt-ftparchive later
<Kinnison> in _has_di I store (keyed by distrorelease name) a Set of the component names which contain debian-installer binaries
<lifeless> so that is the 'debian installer components for distrorelease' ?
<Kinnison> More 'components for debian-installer by distrorelease'
<lifeless> ok.
<lifeless> thats understandable.
<Kinnison> But that's 'what' rather than 'why'
<lifeless> now, you have a dictionary of distroreleases with the components for d-i in that release
<lifeless> what about _di_release_components ? with a comment that this is the components for d-i in each distro release
<lifeless> or release_di_components
<lifeless> may well still need a comment, but at least is a vaguely informative variable name
<sabdfl> is PQM jammed?
<Kinnison> I've put a comment in anyway, detailing what it stores, where it is generated and where it is consumed
<Kinnison> because I think that'll be useful
<Kinnison> so it's just chosing a name
<lifeless> sabdfl: was
<SteveA> pqm didn't allow my merge, with ERROR: testAnwersOnce (CVS.tests.test_CVS.PServerHelperTest)
<lifeless> SteveA: thats the CVS race condition
<SteveA> lifeless: can we disable these CVS tests for a while, until they are reliable again?
<lifeless> SteveA: up to you, do you trust us not to break launchpad via cscvs, or vice verca
<lifeless> s/launchpad/importd
<lifeless> Kinnison: moving right aling
<SteveA> i don't care about breaking the specific code that the tests that have a race condition test
<SteveA> because the tests are faulty
<lifeless> uhm, they aren't testing a race condition, there is a race condition in th etests that is causing the problem
<SteveA> that's what i meant.  my english was ambiguous.
<SteveA> jamesh: ping
<jamesh> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> hi.  stub says that the code that is supposed to make long-running queries time-out doesn't seem to be working.
<Kinnison> lifeless: okay, added explanatory comment in __init__ and renamed _has_di to _di_release_components
<SteveA> i'm looking at canonical/database/adapter.py now
<lifeless> Kinnison: rediff, lets have a look
<Kinnison> running now
* Kinnison hasn't had a chance to flcow his desktop yet
<SteveA> jamesh: can you take a fresh look at it, just to see if anything obvious looks wrong
<jamesh> SteveA: what value do you have db_statement_timeout set to in the launchpad.conf?
<stub> 60
<SteveA> we should have at least a manually runnable functional test for that
<stub> (Originally 4000, but I knocked it down a bit in case it was seconds instead of ms)
<SteveA> like, a deliberately slow query on a page on the debug skin
<stub> Doesn't need to be a page test. Can fake a slow query easily enough using a Python server side procedure.
<jamesh> it seems to work here
* stub continues to wait until his branches commit so he can test
<SteveA> jamesh: how did you test it?
<jamesh> SteveA: set it to a low value, and then ran some other job to burn CPU time
<lifeless> ddaa: ping
<SteveA> also, the "print" should be a log surely
<ddaa> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> ddaa: how did pythons cvs import go ?
<lifeless> ddaa: and how is the svn fi for samba looking ?
<jamesh> I got a "ProgrammingError: ERROR:  canceling query due to user request" exception
<ddaa> python has failed twice since the sprint for various connection problems, right now it's at changeset 10043
<jamesh> SteveA: unfortunately, it is a statement timeout rather than a transaction timeout
<lifeless> ddaa: out of ?
<jamesh> so it is possible for a query to do a lot of work and still not hit the timeout
<ddaa> out of 32425
<lifeless> ddaa: thanks.
<SteveA> jamesh: okay.  so, we should also have an overall request processing timeout.
<SteveA> stub and i discussed this before.
<SteveA> one way to do it is to have the database adapter check some value before each query
<ddaa> yesterday, had a short day to sort some appartment related issues, and spent it all on replying spiv's review for the nested log parsing (python fix) patch for cscvs
<SteveA> and have that value change when the request has gone on too long
<stub> jamesh: Can you issue a few more requests and see if it still happens (ie. that the setting isn't reset next time that handler thread handles a query)
<ddaa> so, nothing new for samba, but it's the next thing to do
* stub is still waiting for his commit to commit
<Kinnison> lifeless: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileXl82lz.html
<SteveA> either the value can be the latest time some query can start to be executed
<SteveA> or the value can be a boolean that is set by an event
<lifeless> ddaa: ok. please keep me posted, Its very urgent
<jamesh> I suppose we could do that by recording when the transaction started, and rollback/fail any future statements past the timeout
<SteveA> setting to a max value is probably the simplest, although it does mean regular calls to time.time() i guess
<SteveA> i don't know how expensive time.time() is
<SteveA> not for a transaction -- for the whole web request.
<SteveA> so, the web publisher would set the value upon receiving the request for processing
<SteveA> and unset the value at the end of that request's processing
<SteveA> the value would be thread.local
<SteveA> or, set on the connection used for that thread, if there is definiely one connection per request.
<SteveA> a thread.local seems less tightly coupled to connection policies though
<SteveA> and, i want to decouple these things for supporting read-only connections for GETs 
<jamesh> so at what points do we check the timeout?
<stub> You could perform the check in the database adapter - that seems a common point to do the check and raise an exception if the request has taken too long
<jamesh> okay
<SteveA> stub: yes, i think that's what i meant to say above
<SteveA> both these things together, that is, max request time and max single query time, should make the webapp more available in general.
<stub> Read only connections are just a case issuing  'set transaction read only' it turns out btw.
<SteveA> oh
<SteveA> so, no need for an extra user
<SteveA> that's cool
<SteveA> i can do that today ;-)
<SteveA> so, that can be added to the launchpad database adapter too
<SteveA> i mean, a method to say "set transaction read only"
<stub> Just make sure it gets set back again too ;)
<SteveA> hmm...
<SteveA> but there can be many transactions in a single request
<SteveA> i want all transactions for that request to be read only
<stub> eh? There is only one transaction per request. You are thinking connections.
<SteveA> there can be more than one transaction per request
<SteveA> for example, when someone commits 
<stub> Nobody should be committing in the webapp
<stub> And Zopeless doesn't use the DA anyway
<SteveA> according to my grep, only script code is committing
<SteveA> so, that's good
<SteveA> i'd still rather do it right, if it isn't so hard to do
<jordi> mdke: oh dear. 
<jordi> I suspected xml2po didn't like something in the doc.
<stub> We should make the publisher raise a 503 or something if there are more than X requests in the queue waiting to be handled
<stub> erm... the http service I mean, not the publisher
<lifeless> Kinnison: your comment talks about _has_di!
<Kinnison> lifeless: arse, well spotted
<lifeless> still go tthis 'di_tuples' thing
<lifeless> tell me about di_tuples
<Kinnison> it is a list of the tuples we save to output to the di overrides instead of the normal overrides
<lifeless> thats in these tuples ?
<lifeless> s/that/what/
<Kinnison> assuming you mean "what's in these tuples?" the answer is "a set of columns to be output tab-separated to the override files"
<Kinnison> specifically package name, priority and section
<lifeless> so it would be reasonable to call them 'di_overrides' ?
<Kinnison> aye, I guess that'd be sane
* Kinnison makes that change
<lifeless> would it be clearer :)
* Kinnison gets workraved, keep on complaining here :-)
<lifeless> calling something that is a list of type-X's thing-'Xs' or 'X'-things is usually very unclear
<lifeless> its like 
<lifeless> ints = [1,2,3,5,7,11,13 ..] 
<lifeless> when what you use it for is 'for prime in ..'
<lifeless> so, rule of thumb I'd like you to imprint on your brain: when you see a type name in a variable name, THINK HARD.
<lifeless> for name in names -> what are they names of? package_names ? file_names ?
* Kinnison nods. I'll do my best to remember that
<Kinnison> file_names
<lifeless> drfullname <- pep8ify please
<SteveA> stub: surely apache / pound can do the "too many requests" error, and not even pass it on to zope
* Kinnison yeuchs
<Kinnison> I do so hate under_scored_variable_names
<Kinnison> they're uggerlee :-)
<SteveA> https://launchpad.net/ gave me a 502 proxy error, with a nasty error page.
<stub> SteveA: Pound can't. No idea about Apache.
* Kinnison must print out the parts of PEP8 which he keeps forgetting and stick them to his wall
<SteveA> i'm getting launchpad pages again. hurrah
<stub> Yay specs page not found
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: Cherry pick patch-2406 into production (patch-3: stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<SteveA> stub: one line fix
<SteveA> stub: the link in the menu is to /+specs, but the page is (and should be) just /specs
<SteveA> it is correct in staging
<SteveA> want me to find you the line that needs to change?
<lifeless> Kinnison: +                        cnf.write(s % {
<lifeless> +                            "LISTPATH": self._config.overrideroot,
<stub> I'm working on lockups atm ;)
<lifeless> that stuff, could benefit by being put in a smaller more readable funtion
* SteveA finds the line for stub
<lifeless> Kinnison: i.e. 'self.write_component'
* Kinnison fails to see how that'll actually improve matters
<Kinnison> given that it's a long argument list, so it'd be best served with named arguments
<lifeless> the calling code will be a shorter semantic statement
<Kinnison> and thus won't be any timpler
<lifeless> the dirty stuff will be out of the way
<Kinnison> you mean hide the d-i changes behind some "isDebianInstaller=True" argument or something?
<lifeless> def write_di_component (self, dr, pocketsuffix[pocket] , component, arches)
<lifeless> dor instance.
<lifeless> bah, for.
<Kinnison> it'd have to cope with the non-di situation too
<lifeless> def write_component(...)
<lifeless> let me put it another way. you ahve a _long_ function that you are making longer.
* Kinnison shrugs
<Kinnison> it doesn't feel right/useful to me to split it out, but I'll do so if you think it's important
<lifeless> can you paste the entire file up?  I'd like to see it in context
<mdke> jordi, yeah. well at least hopefully we can figure out how to fix it
<mdke> jordi, this danilo guy sounds helpful :D
<Kinnison> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/publishing.py
<jordi> mdke: danilo is the man
<lifeless> Internal Server Error
<mdke> jordi, cool
<Kinnison> lifeless: wowyay
<Kinnison> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/publishing.py.txt ?
<jordi> mdke: plus, lives in a decent timezone :)
<lifeless> Internal Server Error
<lifeless> try publishing.txt
<Kinnison> pub.txt
<lifeless> ok.
<lifeless> this makes some stuff clearer
<lifeless> 's' is a template for the apt output yes ?
<Kinnison> yeah
<Kinnison> It's a poor name
<Kinnison> I've already changed it to "stanza"
<lifeless> why is it in the for pocked in loop ?
<Kinnison> but I didn't upload that
<lifeless> thats ok, I'm not blaming you :)
<Kinnison> because it's dumb
* Kinnison moves it out
<Kinnison> updated pub.txt
<lifeless> ok, I suggest this, before # replace those tokens
<sabdfl> stub, jamesh: what's the best way to store a date, rather than a datetime?
<SteveA> depends what you want to do with it
<SteveA> for example, the string YYYY-MM-DD is good for some things
<SteveA> a date is good
<sabdfl> for example, the date a sprint starts, and the date it ends
<SteveA> if it is a date you want
<SteveA> a datetime.date object then
<sabdfl> also, the date a person arrives at a sprint, and the date they depart
<sabdfl> in SQL?
<SteveA> this is why i dislike our use of datecreated etc. in the database
<SteveA> because these are datetimes created
<lifeless> def write_pocket(components, sections, extensions, cache_prefix):
<SteveA> a better name would be "whencreated"
<jamesh> sabdfl: postgres has a date type.  I haven't tried it with DateTimeCol or UtcDateTimeCol though
<SteveA> so as not to confuse things with pure dates
<SteveA>     def getPendingTasksEstimate():
<SteveA>         """Returns an estimate of the number of tasks waiting to be serviced.
<SteveA>         This method may be useful for monitoring purposes.  If the
<SteveA>         number of pending tasks is continually climbing, your server
<SteveA>         is becoming overloaded and the operator should be notified.
<SteveA>         """
<lifeless>     cnf.write(stance ...)
<SteveA> stub: see above
<spiv> jamesh: There's a DateCol in SQLObject.
<spiv> jamesh: Which expects a column of type DATE in postgres.
<SteveA> stub: we can hook something in that uses that on accepting new connections
<sabdfl> jamesh: is it smart about things like start and end dates? the tricky questions are, like, if your "departure date is 11/09/01, are you still around on that date?"
<Kinnison> lifeless: as a nested function?
<lifeless> that will nicely factor this out, without a stupidly long parameter list
<lifeless> Kinnison: yes
<Kinnison> Okay, I'll try
<Kinnison> one sec
<lifeless> it also makes the stanza template local.
<jamesh> sabdfl: it simply stores yyyy-mm-dd.  You can do arithmetic at the granularity of days
<Kinnison> Y'know, I'm still unconvinced
<Kinnison> consider how different the input is for the d-i stanzas
<Kinnison> it'll be an ugly param list there anyway
<sabdfl> jamesh: i think it might be easiest just to use datetimes, and use 8am for arrival, and 5pm for departure
<sabdfl> jamesh: this is in support of your schedul-o-matic, anyhow ;-)
<lifeless> actually, thats a question. why do you write one di component at a time, when you write all of them above ?
<lifeless> thats probably the root of my confusion
<Kinnison> because they're different tree {} stanzas in apt-ftparchive's config
<Kinnison> check out /tmp/fileklVXM9 on mawson if you want to see an example
<Kinnison> as elmo said, d-i is a "fucking bodge"
<spiv> sabdfl: Hmm, wouldn't an second column, datekind, that is an enum of ARRIVAL_DATE or DEPARTURE_DATE be better than magic time components?
<jamesh> sabdfl: that might be easiest.  If you just store dates, you'd need to assign some time of day to them before being able to tell if someone is available at a given time
<lifeless> Kinnison: I belive you. ok, lets move on
* Kinnison nods
<lifeless> minor factor out:
<lifeless> def safe_makedirs(path):
<sabdfl> spiv: accurate times allow us to say "John is here till 1pm on Friday"
<lifeless>   if not os.path.exists(path):
<lifeless>         os.makedirs(path)
<SteveA> sabdfl: that happens a lot with special guests
<lifeless> will simpify the end
<Kinnison> lifeless: *nod* I like that
* Kinnison does so
<sabdfl> SteveA: yup
<lifeless> the di makdirs should be outside the arch list anyway
<lifeless> as they dont use the arch variable
<Kinnison> yep
<Kinnison> that was an oopsie in indentation
<spiv> sabdfl: ah, I thought you were proposing using something different (using 5pm to mean "the date component of this timestamp is a departure date"), rather than actually using the time.  That makes sense, then.
<lifeless> this may be clearer:
<lifeless> +                    if drfullname in self._di_release_components:
<lifeless> +                        if comp in self._di_release_components[drfullname] :
<lifeless> ->
<Kinnison> lifeless: I've updated pub.txt
<lifeless> if dr_fullname, componens in self._di_release_components.items():
<lifeless>     if comp in components
<Kinnison> lifeless: ergh
<Kinnison> that would confuse the hell out of me
<mdke> jordi, it might be a good idea to get yourself added as moderator for ubuntu-translators@lists too, for when carlos isn't here
<Kinnison> magically instantiating the "components" bit in the if statement
<Kinnison> (I assume)
<lifeless> Kinnison: its a standard use of tuple expansion. what is confusin about ? 
<Kinnison> lifeless: if it's standard for python programmers, and stevea says it's not confusing, I'll use it
<Kinnison> it looks confusing to me
<Kinnison> because I'd be looking above to see where 'components' came from and thusly what was I looking for in the dict
<lifeless> Kinnison: hmm, I misread that, I was thinking for, not if
<Kinnison> oh thank christ
<SteveA> i'd put that one in explicit ()
<Kinnison> I thought I'd got another reason to dislike python
<lifeless> if (drfullname, comp) in self._di_release_components.items():
<lifeless> that is the correct usage
<Kinnison> eh?!
<Kinnison> and that'll automatically do the "if comp in self._di_release_components[drfullname] " ?
<spiv> lifeless: hmm, except it's O(n) not O(1).
<lifeless> spiv: erk.
<lifeless> .me twiddles fingers
<lifeless> the code looks unneecessarily complex there
<spiv> "if self._di_release_components.get(drfullname, None) == comp"?
<spiv> Assuming comp cannot be None.
<Kinnison> FFS, self._di_release_components[drfullname]  will be a *Set*
<Kinnison> (or None)
<lifeless> yes yes
<Kinnison> not a component name
<Kinnison> You're all confusing me a hell of a lot here
<spiv> Kinnison: Er, right.
* mpt waves the magic chicken over production
<lifeless> lets move on
<spiv> "if comp in self._di_release_components.get(drfullname, set())"
<spiv> Kinnison: blame lifeless ;)
<spiv> Kinnison: But I think two lines is still clear enough.
<lifeless> [ os.path.join(
<lifeless>                          self._config.distsroot,
<lifeless>                          dr+pocketsuffix[pocket] ,
<lifeless> -                        comp)
<lifeless> that is used a couple of times too, factoring it would make it cleaner, and shut me up about the two if lines
<Kinnison> okay
* spiv tries to avoid suggestions that only marginally improve readability when reviewing, although it's hard to fight the temptation to nitpick.
<Kinnison> updated pub.txt
<lifeless> def component_path(*args): return os.pth.join ...
<lifeless> spiv: generally I do to, its just this thing is seriously opaque already, dont want it to get worse.
<spiv> lifeless: Fair enough.  I didn't mean that to be comment on your reviewing; I don't have the context to do that :)
<BjornT> stub: have you seen the process-mail.py failure?
<lifeless> Kinnison: I'm happy enough now. There are still occasional foobar not foo_bar names
<lifeless> Kinnison: if you audit your diff for those, I'm happy.
<stub> BjornT: no
<spiv> I was more meaning that I was tempted to go off and fiddle more with that expression, which would silly of me :)
<Kinnison> lifeless: okay, I'll try and get as many of them as I can stomach
* Kinnison really_hates under_scored_names
<BjornT> stub: if fails with: ZConfig.ConfigurationSyntaxError: no values for 'buildd_download_url'; 1 required
<BjornT> (line 164 in file:///srv/launchpad.net/production/launchpad/configs/production/launchpad.conf)
<stub> ok
<mpt> whoo
* mpt sees the Launchpad offline page for the first time
<asmodai> yea
* asmodai was just updating some info and got the lovely 503 ;)
<SteveA> lifeless: are you going to disable those particular CVS tests that are causing problems?
<lifeless> SteveA: I don't known which specific ones are causing problems.
<lifeless> SteveA: I'd rather just up the delay before the thing tries to connect TBH
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA>  ERROR: testAnwersOnce (CVS.tests.test_CVS.PServerHelperTest)
<SteveA> that's one of them
<SteveA> i can't find my reply from pqm with the full list of errors
<SteveA> maybe i deleted it in disgust ;-0
<SteveA> ;-)
<lifeless> SteveA: so thats in the pserver tests, wthere are also virtual server usage in the main tests, its going to be ~= disableing most tests
<SteveA> or upping the timeout on most tests
<lifeless> right. upping the timeout is my preferred course of action
<lifeless> ddaa: is there code to deal with '<<< no such revision >>>' in pybaz already ?
<lifeless> ddaa: and how much breakage does archivelocations patch cause ?
<ddaa> nah
<lifeless> ddaa: lastly, is the archivelocations patch in pubic pybaz yet ?
<ddaa> I do not understand your second question.
<SteveA> lifeless: okay, so please up the timeout in those tests
<lifeless> ddaa: what incompatabilities does the archivelocation pybaz patch inttroduce ?
* lifeless delegates
<lifeless> ddaa: can you please double the timeout used for the local-pserver startup?
<ddaa> lifeless: [incompatibilities]  not much that I recall. The biggest issue was deprecation of all registered-name related things, that SteveA made me remove from the rocketfuel branch.
<ddaa> mh...
<ddaa> in the light of the new baz roadmap, I guess there's little point in having those deprecations in the public branch either
<ddaa> [public]  yes it's there
<ddaa> s/biggest issue that I recall/only issue that I recall/
<ddaa> lifeless: I'll try to do the cscvs fixing once I managed to merge my nested-log patch. Which was rejected because of that exact problem.
<lifeless> ddaa: please just do it today, its 10 minutes max.
<ddaa> I thought that's what I said...
<spiv> :q
<lifeless> no, you said you'l do it after some other thing, which is AIUI after the samba fix in your pipeline
<ddaa> the some other thing is actually merging the python fix
<lifeless> ddaa: it may have been clear to you but it wants to me.
<lifeless> ddaa: I asked for 'do X', and got 'sure, after Y' where 'Y' had no eta.
<ddaa> okay, I guess I'm expecting you to carry too much state
<lifeless> ddaa: I have no issue if you do it as after Y, but I want to keep steve et al happy, so I'm asking for anm ETA of X for today, irrespctive of the ta for Y
<lifeless> s/ ta/ eta/
<ddaa> So, short answer, yes.
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> I've just put a     *
<lifeless>       robert.collins@canonical.com/pybaz--devel--0--patch-9
<lifeless>           o
<lifeless>             support for <<< no such revision >>> and !!!!nothing should depend on this.
<lifeless>             needs-review [@DATE@] 
<lifeless> review request up for pybaz code.
<ddaa> Ack. How urgent is that? Today? Once I'm bored with the samba fix? Once I'm done with it?
<lifeless> wjust letting you know, it will pass normal review process and then I'll land it, but I'll want it i nthe public branch too 
<ddaa> I thought you requested a review.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=spiv new tests for some menu system functionality.  reorganisation of browser publication code. (patch-2408: steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<lifeless> ddaa: yes, from the review team.
<lifeless> ddaa: very happy for you to review it too.
<ddaa> Oh, right. You are not requesting a review but you'd be happy for me to do one "If I have the time"... I'll try to.
* ddaa realises he is being vaguely rude
<SteveA> kiko-zzz: dude?
<SteveA> BjornT, lifeless, salgado, jamesh, spiv
<SteveA> reviewers team meeting on #canonical-meeting
<SteveA> stub: you're invited too, as dba fascist
<segfault> is there any problem with LP?
<spiv> I'm getting 502 proxy error.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/cscvs--devel--1.0: [r=spiv]  nested log parsing, cleanups (patch-108: david.allouche@canonical.com)
* Kinnison lunches
<Kinnison> ciao dudes
<mdke> jordi, i have created a new pot from danilo's instructions, already it has twice the entries than the original one...
<mdke> jordi, we're going to have to angry translators I think
<ddaa> yay!
<Kinnison> lifeless: Given that cprov has fixed all the stuff you pointed out in your review, can he now merge with r=lifeless? (You seem to have missed saying that bit)
<lifeless> kiko-zzz:  said I was happy once pep8ificastion was audited by you
<lifeless> kiko-zzz: oh, you mean his doc branch ? I'lll check the current diff
<kiko-zzz> hey ho
<lifeless> bzr branch of rocketfuel is now being uploaded to chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-bzr-demo
<kiko> sorry guys, had a lame morning
<lifeless> you will need the symlink baz2bzr branch of bzr to pull this, its at people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/baz2.0/bzr-baz2bzr
<lifeless> ITS NOT FINAL. warning warning warning alert alert alert danger will robinson
<Kinnison> lifeless: I'm very confused. What is the status of the review of cprov's buildui branch?
<lifeless> Kinnison: I sent a review to him and the list, then steve and I talked about one aspect of that reviw, and I have not heard from cprov since
<Kinnison> cprov: status?
<cprov> lifeless: will check
<lifeless> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/ - its in needs-reply
<sabdfl> kiko: the distro boys are baying to LangPacks, what's the latest status?
<lifeless> it currently has conflicts with rf
<cprov> lifeless: Sep 12 8:08PM at LP-reviews lists, the reply is there
<kiko> sabdfl, stuart did an overnight (for me) whitespace fix run, I need to generate a new pack to see
<kiko> sabdfl, we can talk about this at the reviewer's meeting, but the whole lag is very frustrating -- I feel like I have my hands tied
<kiko> s/reviewers/mgmt
<kiko> stub, rock on -- has the script finished running?
<spiv> lifeless: permission denied.
<cprov> lifeless: moved the bits in the wiki page, but I don't believe you haven't seen the email ... anyway, it was my fault.
<Keybuk> the ssssssh.py in Launchpad seems to be taking my stderr away and not giving it back
<Kinnison> Keybuk: aye, it does that unless you exit non-zero
<Keybuk> no, it exited non-zero and still hid stderr
<Keybuk> :'(
<Kinnison> oh :-(
<Kinnison> sux
<Keybuk> the "ZOPE CAN'T WRITE CONFORMANT C" error got hidden
<Kinnison> yeah there is that
<Kinnison> is this a launchpad-on-breezy issue?
<Keybuk> yes
<Kinnison> can we "fix" it by saying CC=gcc-3.4
<lifeless> cprov: I hadn't, it was waay down my inbox in a thread
<Kinnison> or are you on a mission to make it gcc4 compliant?
<Keybuk> Kinnison: you can fix it by editing the C file and fixing the one bug
<lifeless> cprov: I've replied - short answer, lastBuilds can too move.
<Keybuk> niemeyer found it
<Keybuk> a variable is declared both static and extern
<Kinnison> wooyay
<cprov> lifeless: again, sorry, it was really my fault ... thank you 
<lifeless> np
<stub> kiko: Yes, the script is finished (which is why the email said 'run' instead if 'is running')
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  add table and classes for development manifests (patch-2409: mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com)
<kiko> stub, yeah, I assumed so, just wanted to double-check because language can be oh so subtle
<stub> You accusing me of being subtle?
<kiko> stub, language is subtle. you're just australian
<ddaa> lifeless: 100ms pserver spawn delay in cscvs on course
<kiko> ddaa, aha
<ddaa> kiko: just a band-aid, I think the proper fix would involve special casing so "connection refused" would cause "fast" retries only on tests...
<ddaa> Not trivial by any mean.
<lifeless> ddaa: thanks
<ddaa> Crododile Dundee is my bible about .au subtlety :P
<sabdfl> stub: another little landing on the way, sent mail, will you have a chance to look at it this evening? straightforward, i think
<stub> I'll have a look
<stub> sabdfl: Will you be converting walltimes for scheduling into utctimes for storage?
<sabdfl> stub: faahrk
<sabdfl> faahaaark
<sabdfl> so yes, i guess so. jamesh, you prefer to store everything in UTC, right?
<sabdfl> i mean, the db does anyway
<stub> If we assume sprints are physical, and not virtual, there is a use case for storing them in localtime
<stub> Are we going to have attendees via IRC? ;)
<Kinnison> always store in UTC and translate for timezones (IMO)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/zope--test--3.0: Fix apidoc interface/class browser and GCC 4.0 fix (patch-19: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<lifeless> only sane way
<lifeless> oh, hello dilys, you're back
<mpt> sabdfl: Why are "Edit Ticket", "Edit Priority and Assignee", and "Administer" separate pages? They partly intersect with each other, so I guess they're meant to be used by different people, but they all show up in the portlet for everyone
<SteveA> stub: mailed you a test webserver that cancels connections when there's more than 3 pending
<stub> lifeless: I can provide counter arguments, but in general I agree ;)
<sabdfl> mpt: just trying a slight variation in style
<stub> SteveA: I'll look at that tomorrow
<sabdfl> some folks will get irritated at having to visit three pages if they want to change everything
<stub> SteveA: I've sorted the current production issue anyway.
<SteveA> stub: just stick the file in launchpad/lib/ and run it, then go to localhost:8080 and hit reload lots
<sabdfl> but i'm guessing people will generally be touching one, or the other page
<sabdfl> and then they will prefer tighter, more focused pages
<SteveA> stub: can you check it works for you now?  should only take a moment.
<stub> SteveA: Table statistics for some of the bigger tables had gotten out of date, so some of the scary queries where choosing really stoopid plans and running in glacial time.
<mpt> sabdfl: There's only six fields in total involved here, so I doubt tightness is an issue really
<SteveA> stub: does staging use teh same query plans as production?
<stub> SteveA: It does when the table statistics are similar on both, which guided me to the real issue.
<SteveA> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileYoiFDV.html
<SteveA> stub, lifeless: this is what happens when you make a request that my zope.server additions will reject
<SteveA> i could conceivably make it reject the connection earlier
<SteveA> but it would be more work
* stub is just building a local Pound to test
<SteveA> the current experiment is simple to make work with launchpad as it is now
<SteveA> lifeless: i'm interested in getting your opinion on this
<lifeless> if you want pound etc to think the host is down, it should not call accept()
<kiko> stub, I have a question about the 503 page if I may
<lifeless> (the host should not)
<stub> sabdfl: In case you are bored, this is the log of queries executed to render a single one of the translation pages. There are rather a lot of queries... https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileM78Eyf.html
<kiko> stub, when the server is down, I've never seen this "launchpad is down page"
<spiv> kiko: I have :)
<SteveA> kiko: i saw it today
<SteveA> it has to be a 503
<SteveA> not a 504
<stub> kiko: That is because you havn't seen the server down in the last week, which is about how long it has been installed
<kiko> SteveA, spiv: why don't we see it when the server crashes?
<SteveA> beacuse that is often a 504
<spiv> Depends on how it's down.
<kiko> stub, no, we saw it down yesterday
<SteveA> it was a 504 yesterday
<kiko> ah.
<stub> Launchpad wasn't down, it was happily accepting connections...
<SteveA> lifeless: so, i have to stop the connection at a lower level?
<kiko> and there's no such thing as a 504 page, I imagine?
<SteveA> i'm sure there is
<SteveA> we'd just have to make one, and ask elmo to install it
<SteveA> or ask him to use the same one... although "down for maintenance" would be untrue in that case
<lifeless> SteveA: yah. IIRC we can leave the socket bound, and not call accept(), and then the proxy will see tcp fail and know to fail over
<lifeless> so your accept loop needs a flag, if(!busy): faccept
* spiv knows how to do achieve that with Twisted
<spiv> s/do//
<lifeless> from label: come [do something here.] 
<spiv> lifeless: :)
<lifeless> 5 points if you spot the language that was in
<stub> Pound doesn't do 504
<stub> But Apache probably does.
<lifeless> pqm going down
<lifeless> magic wand time
<SteveA> spiv: would be easy if zope3 used twisted already.  sadly, doesn't
<spiv> Yeah.  (Not that it's clearly documented how to do this with Twisted... just that I happen to know the trick)
<lifeless> the issue is, once yyou call accept() the 3-way handshake has been shook
<SteveA> i think i see where i need to do this
<lifeless> and your load balancer now has to deetect application level errors, not tcp errors.
<lifeless> IIRC squid does app level errors :)
<SteveA> stub: i'll send you a new version in a few minutes
<stub> SteveA: With that version I'm getting a 500 error
<SteveA> is that good?
<ddaa> lifeless: what is the trick to make "cscvs log" work with svn checkouts?
<SteveA> i can easily make it explicitly give a particular error
<lifeless> ddaa: erm, cscvs -d :pserver:ficticious@home log 
<ddaa> bwahaha
<stub> SteveA: It means the load balancer thinks it is still up and running
<lifeless> SteveA: as I sexpected
<stub> SteveA: Which isn't good, if only one of the backends is screwed
<SteveA> ok
* spiv hopes that was a typo
<stub> Ahem
<ddaa> lifeless: SCM.NotAWorkingTree: Path is not a CVS working directory
<ddaa> I mean, I know it's not a CVS working tree, it's a SVN one...
<ddaa> okay, I guess the answer is "you don't"
<lifeless> ddaa: hmm, it *should* be able to work, but anway, I use svn log as it good enough
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Make publisher aware of d-i. Fix up some non-PEP8ish code along the way. Make sure overrides are pocket aware. r=lifeless (patch-2410: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<mdke> jordi, around?
<SteveA> stub: there's an argument to socket.listen() which is the "backlog"
<SteveA> that is the max number of queued connections
<SteveA> maybe reducing that would work
<lifeless> SteveA: what is your bavcklog set to ?
<SteveA> 1024
<lifeless> jesus
<ddaa> lifeless: I you recall what it is that needs to be fixed for samba, I'd appreciate some refreshing. I sort of remember I must do something just like DeletedAdapter but the other way around, maybe for nested adds whatever that means, but I'm a bit at a loss.
<SteveA> we have two things: one is the backlog.  the other is the number of queued tasks.  these are of course related
<lifeless> how many threads to we have? 4 ?
<SteveA> maybe just reducing the backlog will be enough.
<stub> 4 by default, and I think an upper limit of 7 still
<lifeless> if we have 4 threads, I would suggset a backlog of 40
<SteveA>     # Stop accepting new connections if too many are already active.
<SteveA>     connection_limit = maxsockets.max_select_sockets() - 3  # Safe
<SteveA> aha
<SteveA> so, there is a connection_limit too
<SteveA> don't know if it is used or not, though
<SteveA> yep, it ought to be
<SteveA> so, we can probably do it by changing backlog and connection_limit
<SteveA> connection_limit is 97 on my machine
<lifeless> 97 is _way_ to high for something that does synchronous service on 4 requests at once
<lifeless> theres incredibly little point in having more than 8 connections if you do 4 things ar once.
<lifeless> ddaa: adds of a dir that have a copyfrom_revision set need to to a recursive copy
<lifeless> i.e the inverse of deleted adapter
<ddaa> mhr, right what I recall
<ddaa> thx
<stub> SteveA: if connection limit works, could be worth defaulting it to 4*threads upstream (assuming there isn't already a config item to set it...)
<SteveA> i'm going to add some config items for these
<stub> (or 10* as per robs suggestion)
<SteveA> but, i'm still trying to get them to show the desired behaviour
<stub> Bed!
<jordi> mdke: yeah
<jordi> mdke: I'm following this discussion..
<jordi> hm
<bradb> mpt: http://69.70.209.33:8086/products/ubuntu/+bug/1
<bradb> mpt: spot the demystification in under 5 seconds.
<mdke> jordi, i wanted your opinion on the question of how many translations will get lost, and how many might be kept
<jordi> mdke: did many translate the huge line?
<mdke> jordi, if the msgid string is exactly the same, but with a different comment, will the existing translation be kept, or lost?
<jordi> or lines?
<jordi> kept
<mdke> ok then we should be good to go
<jordi> comments are not taken into account when merging.
<mdke> great
<mdke> so, I think that we can consider uploading the new pot
<mdke> jordi, the only question is whether to merge the original into one file first, or to do it later
<mpt> SteveA: fyi, I added a couple of problems (that might be the same problem) to LaunchpadMenusInProgress
<SteveA> okay, cool
<jordi> mdke: if xml2po will handle a well formed file with xincludes, I would do different xml files, for manageability
<jordi> mdke: but would of course generate just one pot file.
<jordi> mdke: the GNOME docs are like this and they work ok.
<jordi> mdke: if you want help with setting up makefiles, we can have a look too.
<mpt> bradb: whoa
<mdke> jordi, yeah, it's just a question of whether we can get different xml files back from the translations
<mpt> bradb: Tony Robbins would love that page, it has a Massive Actions portlet :-)
<mdke> there's not much point having different xml files for the original and single ones for the translations
<bradb> mpt: massive? heh, it's a mini portlet compared to, say, the person page.
<mpt> true, but more of them here are multiple lines
<mpt> maybe that's just my minimum font size talking
<bradb> but it's big. it's also got useful links, and it's been observed then when users want to do something, they quickly adapt to always looking in that space to find the golden path
<jordi> mdke: gnome release notes have 10 xml files, the process generates 1 though.
<mpt> maybe, but adaptable != pleasant
<jordi> It may still be useful to have your sources in multiple, but distribute the final, single doc.
<mpt> It's still daft that subscribing is on the opposite side of the page from the list of subscribers
<mpt> bradb: What's that "Subscribe someone else" for?
<bradb> mpt: Indeed it is. Maybe at some point we'll be able to sell the idea of putting links in logical, easy to trip over (in a good way) places.
<jordi> mdke: scratch that for a minute
<bradb> mpt: To Cc someone else on the bug report. I believe sabdfl was the one that tweaked those bits.
<jordi> totally wrong
<jordi> mdke: 10 source xml files, 10 output xml files for each language.
<bradb> I believe this last tweak will significantly reduce the repeated (and well-merited, I might add) whining about not being able to figure out how to assign a bug.
<jordi> mdke: so way to go
<mdke> hmm
<mdke> jordi, just a question of whether we can do that too
<sabdfl> salgado, kiko: the "preserve edit message" landing, does that use the general mechanism we described in Brazil?
<jordi> yeah?
<salgado> sabdfl, "preserve edit message"?
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> Fix the person-edit view to preserve the message displayed by the edit view when we redirect to their new canonical_url (as a consequence of a name change). r=kiko'
<bradb> mpt: There are various ways we can pull stuff out of the actions portlet though. e.g. [Edit]  link beside the description (afterall, you decide to edit a description when you're looking at the description, more-than-likely); same principle with "secrecy", subscriptions (which is a portlet that should always be present, I think), we can drop adding web links, etc.
<sabdfl> is that done without a tacky ?message=Your%20Edit%20Message url?
<salgado> sabdfl, ah, no. AFAICT that mechanism is not yet implemented
<sabdfl> bradb, mpt: the main way to pull stuff out of the actions portlet is to get the menu system implemented. please stuff everything in the actions portlet until menu systems are done
<salgado> so, yes, it does use a special GET parameter, but the message is not in the GET itself
<sabdfl> don't spend any effort trying to optimise the actions portlet, which is obsoleted by the menu system
<bradb> sabdfl: yep, i'm stuffing everything in there: http://69.70.209.33:8086/products/ubuntu/+bug/1
<sabdfl> we wanted menu systems in before UDU, I will BREAK BALLS IN MONTREAL if it's not done by the time our session starts there
<sabdfl> bradb: good man
<sabdfl> errr
<sabdfl> special get parameter?
<salgado> just an ?updated=date
<SteveA> sabdfl: stu is working on the messages stuff
<sabdfl> salgado: that's rather minor bling, and we have a general mechanism on the way, so let's not do that anywhere else?
<salgado> sabdfl, you mean, simply redirect without any message until we have the mechanism implemented?
* bradb takes a look at what stub's form error message infrastructure can do to help de-robotize Malone error messages
<sabdfl> salgado: yes please
<sabdfl> bradb: you'll like the new FormView
<sabdfl> it's under review, will hopefully land tomorrow
<sabdfl> pending my hearing back from jamesh ;-)
<bradb> sabdfl: It's got some support for notices?
<sabdfl> bradb: yes
<sabdfl> more importantly, its a simpler and more flexible thing than addform
<sabdfl> and with some tweaks it could improve editform too (just need to figure out how to pre-set the fields)
<bradb> sabdfl: I think setUpWidgets knows how to init edit fields.
<bradb> Unless you were referring to something else.
<jordi> sabdfl: do you know by chance what needs to be done with those "dont-use" or "breezy-review" pots in rosetta?
<jordi> ie, what do I need to do exactly to "fix" them? I don't want to fuckup.
<sabdfl> bradb: the problem is that an editform assumes that you are editing the context
<sabdfl> i want to be a bit more relaxed than that
<sabdfl> editforms, so far, are ok, so i'm leaving it as it is for the moment
<sabdfl> jordi: i don't know. i think there is a "hide" checkbox somewhere. BUT, the real solution is not to import them in the first place
<sabdfl> i'll want carlos to address that first thing when he's back
<sabdfl> because those damn things are building up
<bradb> sabdfl: right. i look forward to being liberated from browser:addform, at least. :)
<sabdfl> bradb: the new form is a good replacement for addform, yes
<jordi> sabdfl: yeah :(
<jordi> sabdfl: so should I hold this until next week?
<sabdfl> jordi: yes
<sabdfl> it would be possible to put "DO NOT USE THIS" on the description of each of them, but i don't think it's worth doing that
<jordi> ok. I'll do some email processing and FAQ work
<jordi> I think mdke has the faqguide problem under control now. That was worrying for a moment, but it boiled down to a not so well formed xml
<kiko> gool
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/cscvs--devel--1.0: [trivial]  wait for local psever to spawn for 100ms (patch-109: david.allouche@canonical.com)
<bradb> woohoo, stub's form error message thing seems pretty straightforward
* bradb & # will write more useful error messages after lunch
<SteveA> bradb: it's implemented already?
<SteveA> i didn't see it land
<kiko> me neither
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<Kinnison> elmo: ping?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix the person-edit view to preserve the message displayed by the edit view when we redirect to their new canonical_url (as a consequence of a name change). r=kiko (patch-2411)
<Kinnison> SteveA: what's the best way to get "now" formatted as a string in UTC in python?
<Kinnison> SteveA: this is independant of the database
<SteveA> now is what?
<SteveA> a time
<SteveA> a datetime?
<SteveA> import datetime ; datetime.datetime.utcnow().strftime('....')
<SteveA> >>> datetime.datetime.utcnow().isoformat()
<SteveA> '2005-09-14T16:29:16.310295'
<salgado> elmo, around?
<SteveA> >>> datetime.datetime.utcnow().ctime()
<SteveA> 'Wed Sep 14 16:29:33 2005'
<Kinnison> """Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 12:42:31 UTC"""
<Kinnison> I want that format
<Kinnison> I can obviously shove the 'Date: ' on the front myself
<SteveA> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-time.html
<SteveA> >>> datetime.datetime.utcnow().strftime('Date: %a, %d %b')
<SteveA> there's the first part
<Kinnison> ta
<Kinnison> Now all I need is to work out how to do a buggerload of md5sums and sha1sums and how to format things like I would in perl using a format string
* Kinnison ponders
<SteveA> bradb: ping
<SteveA> BjornT: ping
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Use a different <form> for adding a new email address in a person's email address page. Fix https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1348. (patch-2412)
<SteveA> brad filed this bug: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1515   i want to know if it is still an issue, as written, or if it needs updating
<Kinnison> alright, who is sending empty merges into pqm?
<Kinnison> and why haven't we modified check_merge to spot these and error out?
<SteveA> maybe someone isn't mirroring, and is using tree-version rather than tree-id in their submit script
<cprov> Kinnison: it's probably related to a non mirrored change ..
<cprov> ;)
<Kinnison> indeed, but even so, surely it's easy to spot?
<SteveA> in what script?
<Kinnison> how about in the check_merge target of the top level makefile
<SteveA> isn't it too late by then?
<SteveA> i mean, the merge has already taken place
<mpt> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> hi
<cprov> mpt: let me know when you have 10 min for help me with some facets issues in builddUI
<bradb> SteveA: pong. yes, it's landed (i saw it land, i also tried it out before going for lunch). as for 1515, I don't know whether or not it's still an issue, because I haven't looked at Malone menu code since before brazil.
* SteveA notes that the network connection from async has gone down
<Kinnison> ciao, dinner time
<cprov> Kinnison: see you
<mdke> jordi, got the new pot ready. shall I upload it straight away or do you want to have a quick look?
<SteveA> mp1: network back?
<cprov> SteveA: it is ...
<mpt> SteveA: yup
<mdke> jordi, uploading, fingers crossed
* cprov -> out, back in 1 hour
<SteveA> mpt: i'm off home shortly.  can you mail me details of the branch, or patch or whatever for those person menus we discussed?
<bradb> BjornT: Do you think you'll have a chance to review the URL change patch tomorrow?
<SteveA> i'll continue work on that tomorrow morning.
<mpt> SteveA: ok
<mdke> jordi, eureka
<BjornT> bradb: don't know. i'll definitely dedicate some time tomorrow for reviewing it, but i'm not sure that i will be able to review all of it.
<bradb> BjornT: ok, thanks
<bradb> I'm working on a branch that's branch off of it atm, to improve our failure modes in forms and such.
<bradb> s/branch off/branched off/
<jordi> mdke: that's great
<BjornT> cool
<mdke> jordi, looks like the translations have not been lost
<mdke> jordi, thanks very much indeed for your help
<jordi> mdke: no worries!
<jordi> mdke: used -e?
<mdke> yes
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/faqguide/pt/+translate?offset=210 
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, excellent... these big lines though :)
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, great job! ;)
<mdke> big lines?
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, a little detail... they don't fit in the screen ... something completely different.. nevermind :)
<mdke> gah, that can't be my fault
<mdke> blame jordi 
<WaterSevenUb> mdke, eheh
<kiko> SteveA, as for your question, salgado has tested the email locally but not in production or staging
<kiko> staging doesn't send email
<kiko> production...
<kiko> there are tests for it in the code though
<salgado> we can test it in production now
<kiko> ah, /shipit
<salgado> kiko, shhhhhh
<kiko> :)
<kiko> jordi?
<sabdfl> kiko: pong
<kiko> sabdfl, did you ever give elmo his gift? :)
<lifeless> later all
<kiko> laters lifeless 
<salgado> sabdfl, should we have a separate ShippingAddress table (as stub suggested) or should we put the addresses in the ShippingRequest table?
<cprov> PQM seems to be stalled, processing my job for 1,5 hours
<elmo> it's doing stuff
<elmo> pqm      10134 40.8  1.8 112584 68780 ?        R    20:41   3:25                  \_ /usr/bin/python2.4 test.py -vv --dir hct --dir sourcerer
<cprov> elmo: ok, thank you for looking, let's wait 
<sabdfl> salgado: it's fine where it is for the moment
<sabdfl> kiko: doh
<sabdfl> now i need to find them
<salgado> sabdfl, we need to allow Marilize to place new orders for people which she doesn't have an email address, and thus we can't create a person for these requests. Jane said this is a real use case and we need to implement it soon
<sabdfl> salgado: we do not require an email address for a user in LP
<kiko> sabdfl, stub has reservations to adding dummy users to launchpad
<sabdfl> kiko: they would be real users with real names, would they not?
<kiko> there is also the issue of supporting users that want to request to multiple addresses
<kiko> sabdfl, I don't think so -- think S-n-A.
<kiko> do you really have names for all the recipients?
<sabdfl> mm... The Manager, Foo Bar Internet Cafe
<kiko> and by name I mean "George T. Washington" not "New Delhi Computer Outlet"
<sabdfl> i guess not...
<sabdfl> so who logs in to request another order?
<kiko> It appears to me that it's a lot cleaner to decouple addresses from people
<kiko> shipit admins can generate requests as well
<kiko> the data model would allow for the shipment to indicate a recipient name
<kiko> and thus not using the name of the person who created it.
<kiko> otoh we could also just piggyback request and add address information there
<kiko> there is little difference between the two models
<sabdfl> yes there is
<kiko> (if using a separate shippingaddress table, users' edits to it will be used in non-exported shipments, otherwise, it's fire-n-forget)
<sabdfl> followon requests should be tied to the same address
<kiko> there is difference
<kiko> oh
<kiko> sorry
<kiko> I was incomplete
<kiko> person would have address information -- and we'd copy that into a shippingrequest when placed.
<kiko> that's the other alternative
<kiko> the disadvantage is that it duplicates information
<kiko> preferences, sabdfl?
<sabdfl> if we leave address in person, and copy over, how does that decouple requests from people?
<sabdfl> do we just allow the person to be NULL?
<sabdfl> and have a mechanism to create the person if they come back with their token?
<kiko> right
<kiko> that's precisely what stuart suggested, too
<kiko> he reckons few people are actually going to validate their tokens, which means that most users will just be used as a hanger for address information.
<kiko> I can't say I disagree
<kiko> I mean, salgado and I don't /want/ to change the data model, but acknowledge it's the right thing to do
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> then put the address in the shippingrequest
<sabdfl> leave address details in the person record
<sabdfl> we can copy it there for defaults if the person has filled it in, and comes back
<sabdfl> other way around
<sabdfl> we can copy from person to shipping request if they come back to make a new shipping request
<sabdfl> amazon allows you to add  addresses
<sabdfl> and then select one for each order
<sabdfl> but we don't want to get that fancy
<kiko> okay
<sabdfl> good call, stub
<kiko> I think you're right -- it's the simpler solution.
<sabdfl> and it's easy to refactor that later
<kiko> well, it involves some cut-n-pastage of data
<sabdfl> they are two different bits of data
<sabdfl> one is "my current address"
<sabdfl> the other is "the address of this shipping request"
<sabdfl> it's not a badness to have it in both places, in this case
<kiko> yes
<kiko> agreed, entirely
<kiko> I was just saying that if you want to move to having multiple addresses per person, it involves moving the address out of person. but anyway..
<sabdfl> well, not even
<sabdfl> maybe
<sabdfl> cross that bridge when we get to it
<kiko> right
<salgado> we would need to have a displayname together with the address (in the shippingrequest table), so Marilize can place orders for other people (not S-n-A). otherwise all requests would be sent with Marilize's name. either we do that or we'll be creating person objects for this people?
* mpt leaves baz to its ponderosity, and heads homeward
<kiko> salgado, the former -- a displayname with the address
<kiko> it appears to be the best way to handle this
<salgado> that's what I think too
<kiko> you might get smart and make the code pull owner.displayname when displayname is NULL, but..
<sabdfl> jamesh: ping
* bradb finishes humanizing the error messages on pages linked off the bug page; entering bad data has never felt so good.
<sabdfl> salgado: make the shipping address have a .addressee attribute, which looks at a local field, or person.browsername
<salgado> sabdfl, yeah, that will make life easier for client code
* bradb & # later
#launchpad 2005-09-20
<sabdfl> night all
<mdz> night
<jordi> kiko?
<jordi> nite me too
<Kinnison> night sabdfl 
<Kinnison> sabdfl: see you tomorrow
<kiko> jordi, darn. wanted to talk to you
<Kinnison> spiv: I've added a branch to your queue, If you can, I'd appreciate a first review of the two so-far unreviewed branches I have in your queue
<spiv> Ok.
<Kinnison> spiv: thanks dude, you're a star
<Kinnison> it's now 03:26 and I need to be up at 06:45 so I'm off to bed
<Kinnison> ciao
<spiv> Ouch.
<spiv> Sleep well (and fast!)
<Kinnison> thanks dude
<Kinnison> ciao
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Lots of small fixes suggested by people who tried shipit since it reached staging. r=kiko (patch-2413: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<tiago_> hello people. i have just joined launchpad.net to help with brazilian portuguese translation. but how can i do this gpg thing?? can someone help me?
<spiv> tiago_: You don't need to worry about gpg to do the translation; if you've got that far you've signed up.
<tiago_> well, ok then. I will start some work by now.
<tiago_> thanks spiv! :)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: Cherry pick patch-2413 into production (patch-4: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com, stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<SteveA> morning
<stub> yo
<SteveA> did you try out the new servertest code?
<sivang> Morning all
<stub> Nope
<SteveA> if it doesn't work this time, i'll have to actually stop the socket from listening altogether when there's too many tasks pending.
<SteveA> right now, it accepts then immediately rejects before any writes or reads
<SteveA> that might be not good enough
<stub> Server value
<stub>               Specify for how long Pound will  wait  for  a  server  response.
<stub>               After  this  long has passed without the server sending any data
<stub>               Pound will consider the response finished and abort the  connec
<stub>               tion.  A  value  of  0 (default) implies waiting forever. Set it
<stub>               higher if your server(s) occasionally time-out on a slow network
<stub>               or are over-loaded.
<SteveA> hmmm... but will launchpad still try to do the work?
<SteveA> perhaps not, if pound's end of the connection is broken
<stub> I suspect it will - Z3 won't notice the connection was dropped until it tries to send the reply.
<stub> Argh - you are distracting me!
<SteveA> from?
<sabdfl> howdy all
<SteveA> hey
<sabdfl> jamesh: ping
<stub> SteveA: Research on table statistics
<stub> morning
<jamesh> sabdfl: pong.
<jamesh> I'm looking at your branch (among other things)
<sabdfl> jamesh: cool, thanks, am hoping to land today with your comments
<stub> SteveA: With the server test, Pound reports a (customizable) 500 error to the client when your server drops the connection.
<SteveA> is that good enough?
<stub> SteveA: Which is exactly the same as your first test server ;)
<SteveA> oh
<SteveA> darn
<SteveA> so, i think i'll have to make it actually stop the socket listening.
<SteveA> i'll do some more experimentation later on today.
<stub> Yes. Otherwise Pound won't flag the server as down and will keep sending requests to it.
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> jamesh: how's the max request length thing going?
<stub> I'm not sure if it is really worth spending too much time on - so far, if one of our servers has locked like this the otherone does the same shortly afterwards. So the 500 could be fine for the time being.
<SteveA> i think i know where to hook this in now
<SteveA> so, let's have one more try, and then use the best approach so far
<Burgundavia> jordi, ping
<jordi> Burgundavia: pong
<Burgundavia> jordi, do you have any ideas about translating screenshots and how to make that easy?
<jordi> Burgundavia: yeah
<jordi> http://live.gnome.org/ReleaseNotes_2fTranslating
<Kinnison> Morning all
<mdke> jordi, I have another quick question for you if you dont mind :/ sorry to bug you all the time
<jordi> mdke: no probs
<mdke> jordi, i've had an email from a persian guy who says in order to translate his language properly he needs to set the document as "rtl"
<mdke> jordi, he wants to have the document as html directly so that he can do this, do you know if there is another solution so that he can translate in rosetta and we can still get xml back at the end of it?
<jordi> mdke: I can't see why he'd need to do this. Why can't he do po->xml and then let xml renderers do the rtl thing?
<mdke> i don't know how it works
<mdke> jordi, is it ok if I cc: you into the email correspondence?
<jordi> he basically wants text to flow from right to left, like in hebrew, arabic...
<jordi> mdke: sure
<sivang> Kinnison: hey daniel , 'sup?
<Kinnison> hey sivang. Not much, working hard on 2h30m of sleep :-)
<mdke> jordi, thanks yet again
<Kinnison> spiv: What is the rationale for __metaclass__ = type vs. inherit-from-object ?
<spiv> Kinnison: One is consistency with all our other code.  The other is that this way you can't accidentally forget to inherit from object, then spend an hour wondering why @property silently doesn't work.
<bob2> hmm
<bob2> doesn't forgetting that __metaclass__ declaration have the same problem?
<Kinnison> spiv: I see
<Kinnison> spiv: It's just the most confusing of the coding requirements we have from my PoV :-)
<spiv> bob2: Yes, but that shouldn't happen, because all new python files should start their life with the contents of standard_template.py ;)
<spiv> bob2: And it's only one line to remember, rather than on every single class declaration.
<bob2> ah, heh
<bob2> true
<spiv> Kinnison: There are arguments the other way, but the main thing at this stage is that we've made that decision, it's worked well for us so far, and consistency is important :)
* Kinnison nods
* Kinnison will try and remember it
<bob2> is there a test for this? ;)
<Kinnison> I'm just an object-pascal programmer at heart, so the idea that you always need something to inherit from makes sense to me, and that if you have nothing better you inherit from object makes sense to me
<spiv> Just try to get in the habit of doing :r standard_template.py when you start a new python file ;)
<Kinnison> spiv: -ESYNTAX
<spiv> Or whatever the elisp equivalent may be.
<lifeless> Kinnison: read a file into the current buffer
<Kinnison> lifeless: aah, gotcha
<lifeless> without changing the buffers identity
<spiv> :help :r    ;)
<Kinnison> M-x insert-file RET /path/to/standard_template.py RET
<Kinnison> :-)
<Kinnison> Or C-x i /path/to/standard_template.py RET
<lifeless> see, emacs is easier
<lifeless> honest
<jordi> kiko-zzz: whenever you're up, I'm around
* lifeless uncrosses his fingers
* Kinnison slowly uncrosses his eyes
<sivang> lifeless: ipython is love , I'm now using it solely to workout and self explore the core api and selected sysprogramming modules :=)
* Kinnison sighs
* Kinnison can no longer type 'slave' without typing 'shave^Wsha^H^Hlave' :-(
<Kinnison> my body is rebelling against my unruly facial hair
<jordi> what time is today's meeting?
<Kinnison>  /topic | espgrep meeting
<Kinnison> Developers' meeting, Thursday 15 Sep, 12:00 UTC
<jordi> err, woops. Thanks
<Kinnison> spiv: Any word on the Release stuff?
* Kinnison hopes it was an easy review to do
* Kinnison even remembered to under_scrot his variables
<spiv> Kinnison: Just got back from dinner, doing it now.
<Kinnison> spiv: oh right, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt your food
* Kinnison reliably forgets timezones :-)
<segfault> is LP completely written in python?
<Kinnison> The main app is, yes
<Kinnison> Some bits of the subsystems are in shell
<spiv> Plus a makefile ;)
<spiv> If you want to be really complete.
<SteveA> segfault: LP uses various libraries and infrastructure that is mostly python.  there is some C.
<segfault> for making the web interface, what does it use? i mean, what python libs
<Kinnison> lots of them really
<Kinnison> Erm, pytz, pyme, zope, pygettextpo, and more
<niemeyer> Bom dia! :)
<Kinnison> oi niemeyer.
<Kinnison> SteveA: should I post my time notes as separate days, or all in one?
<SteveA> activity reporting?
<SteveA> separate days
<Kinnison> aye
<Kinnison> okies
<SteveA> launchpad meeting in about half an hour
<SteveA>  /msg me items
<segfault> so, it mainly uses zope for presentation stuff.
<SteveA> it uses zope3 for the web application
<SteveA> the security infrastructure, and the component architecture
<sivang> Kinnison: do you use the Zope auto presentation capabilites  or control yourselfs how LP displays data, fields, classes ?
<Kinnison> I don't have a clue
* Kinnison is a backend person
<SteveA> we use the zope widget and forms stuff quite a bit
<Kinnison> Publisher Release file support, spotted and fixed Source related bug
<Kinnison> so that Release files build properly. Successfully build an archive
<Kinnison> with proper Source and Release files (alongside correct Packages and
<Kinnison> correct d-i files) against the entire dogfood archive.
<Kinnison> 8h + 3h after pub
<Kinnison> oh pants
<Kinnison> sorry
* Kinnison kicks shift+insert
<bob2> hehe
<bob2> pity it wasn't 3h at pub
<Kinnison> bob2: pub didn't have wireless
<Kinnison> bob2: plus, pub had beer, which was infinitely more inviting than three hours of coding in python
<bob2> true, true
<Kinnison> There was a beer called "Holy Bones"
<Kinnison> so I had a half-pint of it and the barman handed me the drink and said "One holy metatarsal"
* Kinnison hugs geeky pubs
<bob2> haha
<bob2> ely or cambridge?
<sivang> Kinnison: are you sure? =) 
<Kinnison> bob2: cambridge
<Kinnison> sivang: sure about what?
<sivang> Kinnison: 13:37 < Kinnison> bob2: plus, pub had beer, which was infinitely more inviting than three hours of coding in python
<Kinnison> sivang: quite sure. Beer == nice comfortable mental state. Python == headaches
<sivang> Kinnison: hehe
<SteveA> python + beer = fun
<bob2> lua vs beer would be a tougher one, i'd bet
<sivang> segfault: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadTechnologyOverview <== maybe this will help you 
<jordi> SteveA: python + beer = System error :)
<sivang> jordi: AH AH
<bob2> you need to get some eggs in there somehow
<SteveA> launchpad meeting in 20 mins, /msg me special agenda items.
<bob2> maybe floating in the beer
<SteveA> bob2: what a repellant thought
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Buildd slave chroot tool. r=spiv (patch-2414: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<sivang> bob2: why eggs?
<segfault> sivang: nice, thanks.
<bob2> eggs have a long and fabled history
<bob2> as well as being zope hacking fuel
<jamesh> bob2: couldn't be worse than a pie floater
<Kinnison> bob2: the way I was feeling last night, beer won over lua
<jamesh> http://www.lard.net/pie1.jpg
<bob2> Kinnison: ah :/
<Kinnison> bob2: Of course, my idea of beer is one half-pint over three hours
<Kinnison> bob2: and then some ginger beer afterwards
* Kinnison isn't a big drinker
<bob2> jamesh: I've always said WA should just secede
<bob2> Kinnison: yummay
<jamesh> bob2: pie floaters aren't western australian
<bob2> quokka floater!
<jamesh> I think they're south australian
<SteveA> T-10 minutes.  take a workrave now.
<sivang> jamesh: what is this pie floater? what is it made of?
<SteveA> hi mpt, cprov.  /msg me agenda items.
<jamesh> sivang: (1) take a bowl of green pea soup, (2) float a meat pie in it and (3) add tomato sauce
<cprov> SteveA: ok
* kiko-zzz knocks off some zs
<jblack> Whoop! Meeting time! 
<kiko> he said it
<kiko> how is everyone?
<niemeyer> kiko!
<SteveA> it is time indeed
<lifeless> awake
<SteveA> let's go
* Kinnison waves his hands in the air like he just don't care
<jblack> I've had 8 cups of coffee in the last hour. 
<niemeyer> kiko: How're you doing?
<SteveA> MEETING STARTED
<jblack> i.e., same old smae old.
<SteveA> who's present?
<kiko> hey gustavo
<kiko> not too bad
<bradb> me
<jblack> me
<BjornT> me
<salgado> me
<cprov> me
<kiko> my present!
<niemeyer> me
* Kinnison is present
<Keybuk> I'm not
<lifeless> awl
<mpt> me
<Kinnison> Keybuk: bloody induhviduals
<spiv> me
<jamesh> me
<SteveA> apologies / absences:
<SteveA> morgs on vacation
<SteveA> daf, sick leave
<stub> Yo
<SteveA> debonzi, at university
<SteveA> carlos, on vacation
<ddaa> coucou
<SteveA> did i miss anyone?
<SteveA> == Agenda ==
<SteveA>  - roll call
<SteveA>  - agenda
<SteveA>  - next meeting
<SteveA>  - activity reports
<SteveA>  - morgs, debonzi (steve, kiko)
<SteveA>  - jordi's rosetta advocacy meeting (jordi)
<SteveA>  - production / staging (stub)
<SteveA>  - switching to breezy (steve)
<SteveA>  - shipit (salgado, kiko)
<SteveA>  - rosetta / breezy language packs (kiko)
<SteveA>  - launchpad on bazng pie status (lifeless)
<SteveA>  - sysadmin requests outstanding (steve)
<SteveA>  - three sentences
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> same time next week?
<bradb> ouais
<jblack> Aye
<spiv> Sure.
<SteveA> anyone who won't be here on the 22nd, say now
<Kinnison> sr
<cprov> ok
* ..[topic/#launchpad:SteveA] : Discussion with Launchpad users and developers. || https://launchpad.net/ || Includes Rosetta and Malone. || Developers' meeting, Thursday 22 Sep, 12:00 UTC
<SteveA> great
<sabdfl> i won't
<stub> yer
<kiko> I will
<SteveA> sabdfl: we can have a call beforehand, if necessary
<SteveA> next, morgs and debonzi
<SteveA> morgs has decided to stop working on launchpad, and to persue other things.  he said to me:
<SteveA> I have really enjoyed working with you guys and the whole team, and I've
<SteveA> learned a lot about a lot of things. Thanks for the opportunity!
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> he also mentioned the company he's starting, www.penguinlabs.net, offering Ubuntu hardware compatibility testing
<SteveA> to the South African IT channel for distributers and retailers interested in offering Ubuntu preloaded on PCs but lacking the skills to
<jordi> sorry, I'm present
<jordi> was called by boss at office
<SteveA> manage the testing / certification themselves
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> i hope he'll pop in on irc once he's back from vacation.
<SteveA> to say hi and stuff.
<kiko> and debonzi's decided to move on to university, waves bye to us, and also said great things about the team. he's been on IRC on and off and this month has helped celso with some soyuz UI work, but that was his last month
<jblack> :'(
<jordi> really? oh :/
<SteveA> hi martin
<SteveA> moving on...
<SteveA>  - jordi's rosetta advocacy meeting (jordi)
<kiko> on a more positive note we have one QA intern who started this monday, and a new full-timer starting next week -- Steve, you have a phone call with him today or tomorrow 
<SteveA> jordi wants to organize a meeting to talk about rosetta advocacy for upstreams 
<SteveA> kiko: sure, tomorrow is best for me
<kiko> sounds good
<SteveA> jordi: want to say a few words?
<jordi> ok, so I want to see when to have a short meeting to discuss how to promote lp/rosetta. I'm going to start mailing people about the existance of rosetta and inviting them to join
<niemeyer> spam! :)
<jordi> anyone interested or with ideas on how to do this/who to focus on first welcom
<jordi> niemeyer: TOTALLY
<jblack> jordi: When & where? 
<jordi> niemeyer: see, that's one of my concerns. That it doesn't look like spam :)
<kiko> jordi, question for you: how have the current upstreams been enjoying rosetta?
<niemeyer> jordi: I think it might be a good idea to contact translators with recent contributions..
<jamesh> are you going to target individuals or existing translation groups?
<kiko> are there any showstoppers we might want to address before doing this, to avoid any bad PR (I tried Rosetta nad it sukced!1!)
<jordi> jblack: any weekday evening (for europe) would suit me.
<niemeyer> jordi: So that you're 100% sure that the person is interested.
<sabdfl> jordi: Rosetta handles translation teams really well
<jordi> as carlos might be good to have in, that needs to be starting next week
<sabdfl> for example, we could create a team for "Arabeyes"
<jblack> Ok. any day but lp meeting day can work for me.
<niemeyer> jordi: Even if he's not the upstream, he'll pursue the adoption.
<sabdfl> then they can be added to specific projects very easily
<jordi> kiko: that's the kind of stuff we need to talk about too
<kiko> right
<sabdfl> even if just one or two translators from the team are using it, the others will then become familiar with it
<kiko> right, agree with mark
<jordi> kiko: there maybe be a few rough edges here and there, most involving perms stuff.
<SteveA> we have lots of items in this meeting.  this item is about organising a rosetta advocacy meeting, rather than discussing rosetta advocacy right now.
<kiko> however, I want to make sure it's a positive experience for the majority
<sabdfl> jordi: i wrote most of the tgroups and perms stuff, so you can sent those issues to me
<jordi> sabdfl: great
<kiko> exports should improve a lot over this next week
* sivang is also here , btw
<sabdfl> improve? or happen at all *duck*
<SteveA> hi sivang
<jordi> heh
<SteveA> so, jordi, when's the meeting?
<jordi> ok, so say tuesday 20:00 UTC?
<kiko> sabdfl, well, it's really a ratio thing -- we used to fail 6 out of 10, we now fail 1 or 2
<kiko> (which isn't beautiful but.. better)
<kiko> SteveA, move on
<kiko> sounds good jordi 
<kiko> I'll be around
<SteveA>  - activity reports
<jordi> k, Sept 20, 20.00 UTC
<kiko> I AM THE DUDE
<SteveA> who is up to date, and who's living in the past ?
<stub> up to date
* SteveA slips in a jethro tull reference...
* BjornT is up to date
* SteveA is up to date all this week
<sabdfl> kiko: we should explore the idea of generating a base langpack from the package tarballs themselves
<niemeyer> I'm missing the last few days.. I'm planning a single "sprint" entry.
<mpool> uptodate
<spiv> I'm in the past, and probably need to reset :(
<mpt> up to date
<jordi> I think I'm err, totally living in the past wrt activity reports
* salgado 's living in the past (for the first time)
* jamesh restarted, but hasn't sent in ones for this week
<bradb> up to date
* Kinnison is the dude
<Kinnison> kiko: congrats
<kiko> Kinnison, just because you chided me
<lifeless> up todate
<lifeless> event managed to tell the whole world torday
<ddaa> uptodate
<Kinnison> and for lifeless' next magical spelling trip of doom...
<jblack> up to date (if I didn't bounce my mails -- again) 
<SteveA> anyone didn't say yet?
<SteveA> i'll follow up on people who are not up to date after the meeting
<kiko> sabdfl, can you elaborate?
<cprov> ot up
<SteveA>  - production / staging (stub)
<SteveA> next production rollout, status of staging please
<stub> Staging is getting code updates daily as usual, but db syncs are disabled for whitespace fixup testing
<stub> Production will be tagged from soon (I have something I want to land this time ;)), and rolled out Tuesday unless someone requests otherwise
<stub> All producction systems are now running on Gangotri
<lifeless> erm, moduo import
<stub> Although Gina will need to still run on Macquarie when we switch her on (because that is where the archive mirror is)
<lifeless> importd
<stub> erm... and librarian and authserver...
<lifeless> has the authserver moved ?
<stub> but apart from that!
<lifeless> haha
<lifeless> so what you mean is 'the web ui is on gangotri' :)
<SteveA> is there a doc somewhere that says where things are running?
<stub> All the stuff runing as launchpad@macquarie has moved to launchpad@gangotri
<kiko> yeah, there are wikipages on the servers
<ddaa> anybody tried to shut down macquarie will have to justify breaking 3 days of python import processing...
<lifeless> ddaa: wheres it t ?
<lifeless> up to I mean
* SteveA plans to move on...
<SteveA>  - switching to breezy (steve)
<ddaa> lifeless: I told in the baz meeting, not yet quite at 50%
* stub is on breezy now
<SteveA> i'm going to be switching my workstation to breezy over the weekend
<kiko> I'll switch monday, no earlier
* jblack breezy since the beginning
<SteveA> i strongly urge all of you to switch soon
<SteveA> to help out the distro team on testing, and to make sure that breezy works well on your hardware
<Kinnison> Blergh, okay
* cprov will switch tomorrow or over the weekend 
<spiv> I switched on the weekend, no major dramas.
* Kinnison ponders when he next has free time to switch
<Kinnison> November?
* niemeyer is on breezy..
<SteveA>  - shipit (salgado, kiko)
<jamesh> if you switch to breezy, install the "python2.4-dbg" package
<SteveA> detached symbols?
<spiv> jamesh: Oh, that actually has useful debug symbols?
<jamesh> yeah
<spiv> Nice.
<mpool> ok, will switch tomorrow
<salgado> shipit is ready. we should be opening it today
<kiko> fun
<mpool> i asked stephane to test it
<jamesh> spiv: yeah.  both a debug interpreter and debug symbols for the standard interpreter
<kiko> salgado, you need the latest sexiness cherry-picked
<salgado> kiko, stub already did that
<SteveA> so, as i understand it, the idea is to get shipit running on shipitng.ubuntu.com (production database)
<jblack> salgado: Is shipit giving an estimated shipdate a reasonable possibility? 
<SteveA> test it out a bit, and then get elmo to switch over the old shipit holding page for the real shipit
<kiko> stub is the dead kennedy
<kiko> jblack, not yet
<SteveA> kiko, salgado, stub: am i right?
<SteveA> do we need to get elmo more closely involved in making this happen?
<salgado> jblack, it will be possible to inform people when their orders are sent to the shipping companies. but from there it's not easy to predict the shipdate, AIUI
<kiko> we need to make sure it happens
<kiko> you requested it from elmo, SteveA, but... it's our funeral
<kiko> more importantly, though
<kiko> sabdfl, is tomorrow a good public launch day for shipit?
<kiko> or mdz the undead
<SteveA> kiko: make sure production has the shipit code, and i'll deal with the elmo side of it.
<salgado> SteveA, production has all the necessary code
<kiko> SteveA, production is shiny
<SteveA> cool.  so, i'll call elmo after the meeting.
<SteveA>  - rosetta / breezy language packs (kiko)
<kiko> I generated a new set of language packs with stub's excellent help
<kiko> they are in pitti's hands for testing and diff-generation
<kiko> I'm praying they look better
<kiko> I can explain the dynamics of the whitespace issue
<kiko> we ran the whitespace fix (a set of fixes actually) on staging
<kiko> this is why the db updates are frozen
<kiko> I've generated packs
<kiko> if pitti likes them, the plan should be run script on production, and that's it
<kiko> anything else, or move on?
<SteveA>  - launchpad on bazng pie status (lifeless)
<lifeless> no pie
<lifeless> pie will be going sao carlosward
<kiko> says you! :)
<lifeless> hey, I have launchpad in bzr, with history, right now :)
<kiko> it won't be the last, anyway
<mpool> way to go
<SteveA> how far off are we from doing our launchpad things using shiny bzr goodness?
<kiko> lifeless, that's not the same as having the team on bzr :-P
<lifeless> anyone who wants to play, its in /home/warthogs/rocketfuel-bzr-demo
<kiko> PQM for bzr?
<lifeless> kiko: done already
<kiko> and merging?
<Kinnison> lifeless: does it exec it, or does it import it?
<lifeless> kiko: done
<SteveA> mirroring to chinstrap?
<lifeless> kiko: imports
<niemeyer> lifeless: The official move will probably happen on weave already, right?
<lifeless> SteveA: mirroring - a push - is in the pipeline still
<SteveA> okay
<spiv> lifeless: /home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel-bzr-demo/ you mean
<SteveA> looking good
<lifeless> weave is orthogonal
<lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/baz2.0/bzr-baz2bzr/ <- the bzr tree needed to access rocketfuel in bzr
<SteveA>  - sysadmin requests outstanding (steve)
<spiv> What's the ETA for that getting merged to mainline bzr?
<lifeless> this is not the final import, as it doesn't have 'x' bit support, nor gpg.
<lifeless> spiv: close.
<SteveA> other than the shipit related stuff, anything else that the sysadmins need to get to soon?
<lifeless> anyway, see my wiki page for status :)
<lifeless> SteveA: planet.bazaar.c.c
<jblack> stevea: I'd  like planet.bazaar.canonical.com going
<mpool> lifeless: i'd like to get my format change in before people switch
<mpool> is that what you were saying about "one week of us testing it first"?
<SteveA> jbailey: are the necessary issues in RT ?
<jblack> do you mean this jbailey? :) 
<lifeless> mpool: mmm, people cannot switch to bzr for lp until we have x bit support and gpg signing
<SteveA> um, yeah
<niemeyer> mpool: That was my question, thanks
<lifeless> mpool: but people can _play_ with it now.
<SteveA> ECOMPLETION
<jblack> Yes, its in RT as #23, from sept 6.
<jblack> I haven't heard any RFIs on it
<SteveA> okay, i'll follow that up
<mpool> lifeless: i know, my question was if our completion is
<SteveA>  - launchpad-users (kiko)
<mpool> xbit and gpg and symlinks and weaves
<mpool> right?
<mpool> and dependencies of them
<lifeless> mpool: lets pick this up post meeting
<kiko> yes
<kiko> we have a launchpad-users mailing list
<mpool> yep
<kiko> it should be publically announced and open
<kiko> question is: how do we want to use it?
<kiko> I am hoping I, jordi and bradb have a good idea of how to move foward
<SteveA> how does it relate to rosetta-users ?
<kiko> of course anyone who has opinions is more than welcome -- #launchpad non-canonicals included
<bradb> kiko: I'm planning on announcing malone-users around the same time as 1.0.
<kiko> SteveA, I don't know -- do you?
<kiko> bradb, does it exist yet?
<bradb> yes
<SteveA> do we need malone-users as well as launchpad-users? 
<jbailey> SteveA: =)
<niemeyer> kiko: Having it configurable inside launchpad itself would be interesting, if that's not what you were thinking about already
<kiko> that's not what I was thinking :)
<bradb> SteveA: we might not need launchpad-users
<bradb> we could always wait and see and, if needed, create a launchpad-users list later.
<kiko> where do people discuss launchpad itself?
<SteveA> i usually talk about "the launchpad bug tracker" rather than "malone"
<SteveA> we have a #launchpad
<kiko> me too
<SteveA> but no #malone
<SteveA> so, i say, let's use launchpad-users
<SteveA> and not use malone-users
<bradb> kiko: IME people don't know where to draw the line between "Malone" and "Launchpad"; it's all Malone to them.
<kiko> malone and rosetta are only really known to the inner circle
<niemeyer> kiko: Even if just for startup, to get some quorum
<bradb> kiko: for example, tseng thanked me yesterday for the enhancements to the team page which, of course, has zero to do with malone :)
<kiko> niemeyer, it's a mailman list.. are you volunteering to do a proxy-controller for it? :-)
<kiko> bradb, tseng is inner circle
<SteveA> the domain is launchpad.net
<kiko> soon you'll have upstreams and maintainers you never heard of
<kiko> then what?
<SteveA> not malone.net or malone.launchpad.net
<niemeyer> kiko: It's just a matter of sending a message to the -request pretending to be the user
<SteveA> so, we'll use launchpad-users as the mailing list, and not malone-users.  let's not have too many mailing lists.
<niemeyer> kiko: I may certainly help with something fancier, if needed
<kiko> niemeyer, hmmm. but who would I spam^H^H^H^Hsubscribe?
<bradb> in any case, i'm only speaking from my experience.
<SteveA> we need to build a community, not fragment a community.
<spiv> The current website emphasises the "launchpad" name much more than "malone" or "rosetta".
<jblack> imho, unless malone is going to be a seperable item in the future, it doesn't make sense to have unique branding. 
<kiko> bradb, yeah, I know, but don't you think that your experience is biased towards motu? :)
<niemeyer> kiko: Whoever clicks on "Subscribe the shiny new launchpad-users list now!"
<sabdfl> kiko: tomorrow's good, yes
<bradb> kiko: yes.
<kiko> sabdfl, wondy
<kiko> niemeyer, on the homepage? :-)
<kiko> there should be a launchpad/+gethelp page, but mpt knows that :)
<niemeyer> kiko: On login, for instance
<mpt> I do?
<mpt> I do.
<sabdfl> lifeless: remember, they need your spethial bzr branch for symlink support
<SteveA> kiko: anything more on this item?
<bradb> are we going to keep rosetta-users running then?
<SteveA> yes
<bradb> i don't see why it makes sense to have rosetta-users, but not malone-users :)
<lifeless> sabdfl: yes, I told them :)
<SteveA> i do.  we can talk about it later.
<bradb> ok
<SteveA> kiko: anything more on this item?
<kiko> SteveA, nope.
<SteveA> okay
<SteveA> three sentences.  send them now!
<jblack> PAST: advocacy
<jblack> FUTURE: advocacy
<Kinnison> DONE: Sprinted more, recovered from sprint. Buildd slave chroot tools done. Publisher now fully operational including Source generation, d-i support and Release file generation
<salgado> DONE: ShipitNG, some basicvoting, training the new intern
<salgado> TODO: ShipItNG: exports, allow admins to place orders in behalf of other people, more training
<salgado> BLOCKED: No
<Kinnison> TODO: Upload handler UI contract finalisation and then more work on process-upload.py
<Kinnison> BLOCKED: Nothing currently (yay)
<bradb> DONE: Got the URL branch into code review queue. Wrote some code to de-robotize form error messages in pages linked to from the bug page.
<jblack> BLOCKERS: already listed
<BjornT> DONE: made the bug search form use new listing style. reviews. some
<cprov> DONE: back from UK local setup after two week away, review builddUI and buildd-scoring
<BjornT> work on predefined bug reports. 
<BjornT> TODO: last touches of MaloneSearchResult. PreDefinedBugReports. reviews.
<BjornT> BLOCKED: no
<cprov> TODO: missed bits for builddUI (context_menu and reasonable content) buildd/uploader integration.
<cprov> BLOCKED: none
<bradb> TODO: Nag BjornT. Land the URL branch. See what the status of LP menus is; get back into finishing that for Malone. Stealt UI improvements, time permitting.
<bradb> BLOCKED: URL changes review. (BjornT)
<jamesh> DONE: put gpg keyring trust analyser up for review, fix timing issues with some DB tests, implement the database side of the LP request timeout code.
<jamesh> TODO: specs scheduling thing, get lifeless's bzr changes rolled out to pending-reviews page, code reviews
<jamesh> BLOCKED: no
<niemeyer> DONE: Started new rpm sourcerer backend, pair programming with Scott on HCT.
<niemeyer> TODO: More pair programming, start work on bzr next week.
<niemeyer> BLOCKED: Nope
<mpt> DONE: LaunchpadIntegration cleanup, bug fixing and reporting, ticket system cleanup
<mpt> TODO: finish ticket system cleanup, Rosetta dehorkage, LaunchpadMenus, more bug fixes
<ddaa> DONE: BranchDataStorage London sprint
<ddaa> TODO: samba SVN import, jamesh races review, lifeless pybaz review, finish importd-archivelocation, finish sprint work
<ddaa> BLOCKED: no
<mpt> HINDRANCES: baz slow as ever, looking forward to bzr
<kiko> DONE: reviews, email crackin, shipit and rosetta-langpacks
<kiko> TODO: more reviews, get shipit out the door and the specs in the wiki
<kiko> BLOCKED: just too many damned things thrown at me at once
<Kinnison> baz goes uberquick if you put the effort into flcow
<SteveA> DONE: reviews, management, started publisher refactoring, menus delivery work, launchpad availability work
<SteveA> TODO: menus delivery, finish publisher refactoring, more launchpad availability work
<SteveA> BLOCKED: no
<SteveA> 
<Kinnison> (where uberquick is approx 10s for a diff on a launchpad tree)
<stub> DONE: BrowserNotificationMessages, script logging stuff
<stub> TODO: BrowserNotificationMessages
<stub> BLOCKED: Nothing
<kiko> stub, is that what you're wanting in production next week? :)
<mpool> DONE: 9/12 test suites passing with weave
<mpool> TODO: rest of fetch, merge, & upgrade
<mpool> BLOCKED: no
<lifeless> DONE: baz2bzr, bzr symlink support, bzr integration of patches, sprinting
<lifeless> TODO: x bit support, upgrade to breezy, gpg signing, async demo for bzr developers.
<jordi> PAST: email processing, helping ubuntu-doc with their xml > po stuff, other templates
<lifeless> BLOCKED: nope
<jordi> TODO: advocacy, email processing
<SteveA> bradb: when can people start using BrowserNotificationMessages ?
<lifeless> mpool: sure thats not 9/1 ? :)
<jordi> BLOCKED: nothing new
<lifeless> bahm 9/11
<stub> kiko: I'd like to land the script logging stuff - I just need to repair some tests I broke, hopefully without too many changes requiring rereview
<bradb> SteveA: I don't know what that is.
<SteveA> jblack: can you organize getting schooltool imported into bzr sometime?
<mpool> 9/1?
<mpool> oh
<spiv> DONE: reviewing, some work on rosetta export issues, caught up with some old branches and merged them.
<spiv> TODO: Finish of rosetta export debugging!  Reviews.  AuthServerCaching.
<spiv> BLOCKED: No.
<mpool> fairly sure :)
<SteveA> stub: when can people start using BrowserNotificationMessages ?
<SteveA> bradb: i was meaning to ask stub.
<stub> When I finished it?
<jblack> Sure. Do you have a contact you'd like to suggest? 
<SteveA> jbailey: #schooltool
<SteveA> jbailey: sorry
<SteveA> jblack: #schooltool, talk to one of the lithuanians
<jblack> He needs a new nick. 
<Kinnison> no, stevea just needs to pay more attention
<jblack> Nah. Everyone does it. :) 
<stub> I've needed to divert from the spec design somewhat which has slowed things down somewhat
<SteveA> okay... anyone blocked and not been dealt with?
<mpt> No, SteveA just needs a smarter IRC client
<SteveA> stub: i'd be interested to hear about the changes sometime
<SteveA> we have time for a short "countdown of doom"
<SteveA> 6
<SteveA> 5
<lifeless> DOOM
<SteveA> 4
<SteveA> 3
<kiko> d00m
<SteveA> 2
<SteveA> 1
<lifeless> DooM
<mpt> oom
<SteveA> END OF MEETING
<niemeyer> Ahhhhhhhh
<SteveA> thanks everyone
<Kinnison> <kaboom style="earth-shattering" />
<lifeless> mpool: so, what were you asking ?
* sivang notes to self that launchpad meeting are distinctly different then distro team ones.
<bradb> short and sweet, baby
<sivang> yeah, something like it =_
<Keybuk> <fx:kaboom fx:style="sound" sound:volume="earth-shattering" xmlns:fx="http://purl.com/xml/fx/1.0" xmlns:sound="http://purl.com/xml/sound/1.0" />
* bradb goes to finish waking up
<Kinnison> Keybuk: screw you, XML hippie
<jbailey> jblack: At this rate, I'll never beleive you're mark shuttleworth, clearly noone else does.  Perhaps you could come with ID saying that you're Jeff Bailey?
<sivang> LOL
<jblack> LOL!!
<ddaa> Keybuk: IIRC namespace of attributes default to namespace of elements :P
<ddaa> I mean of containing element
<Keybuk> ddaa: no, namespace attributes default to no namespace which the parsing application may construde to be the namespace of the element if they wish
<SteveA> ddaa: basically, XML namespaces on attributes sucks...
<Keybuk> it's generally considered bad style to write formal XML without a namespace on the attribute if the attribute is selected from a particular schema
<ddaa> all the xslt I have seen use xsl:element but never xsl:attribute...
<kiko> bradb, that bug I asked you about, it's been reported as https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2291
<Keybuk> you realise you're pedanting a joke?
<ddaa> Yes :)
<kiko> salgado, did you see marilize's email? :-(
<salgado> kiko, I'm reading it now
<salgado> kiko, seems like she wasn't following previous discussions?
<kiko> sorta, but she's pointed out two pretty silly bugs we kept
<cprov> kiko: hold on for breezy upgrade, I'm finishing the mirror, ok ?
<Keybuk> bradb: apparently I'm supposed to beat you up to find out what the hell bug-release-targeting-pages.txt is doing
<salgado> kiko, the first two items?
<kiko>       return plural.split(';', 1)[1] .split('=',1)[1] .split(';', 1)[0] .strip()
<kiko> CRAAAAAAAAACK
<kiko> how can anyone expect that is going to work?
<kiko> [reliably] 
<sabdfl> stub: w.r.t. landing, i have a branch, currently under review by jamesh, that i hope to land today, that needs to be in the production rollout
<SteveA> um
<SteveA> kiko: that looks like it would be better expressed as a regex
<kiko> sabdfl, I can't be trusted with >2K diffs, I simply don't have more than two hours of uninterrupted time
<salgado> kiko!
<sabdfl> kiko: np, jamesh is on it
<salgado> kiko, what descriptions are we going to use for the standard options?
<sabdfl> stub: will you ping me when you are planning to branch? i will merge up to that point of rf, and then only merge from the branch, so that mine can land directly on what will go to production
<sabdfl> tomorrow, if needed
<stub> sabdfl: ok. Please let me know the rf patch number when it lands and I'll tag that (assuming it lands today or tomorrow)
<kiko> salgado, uh, hmmm?
<SteveA> jamesh: how is that "max request time" work going?
<sabdfl> stub: we can do it differently
<sabdfl> let me know when *you* branch, and i won't merge in rf past that point
<sabdfl> then mine should land cleanly on yours
<stub> sabdfl: ok.
<jordi> I'm leaving office
<jordi> laters
<kiko> bradb, BjornT?
<kiko> PATH_INFO : /++vh++https:launchpad.net:443/++/malone/bugs/308/people/268/+edit
<kiko> see anything wrong with that?
<kiko> is it +people?
<bradb> kiko: It looks like you can no longer "edit" subscribers
<kiko> no
<kiko> well
<bradb> kiko: That would probably be something from what I believe was sabdfl's change to the subscription fu
<kiko> the /people/ traversal is busted
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1126786415.860.140780313203
<salgado> kiko, expired
<kiko> why do these errors expire so quicky?
<bradb> kiko: It doesn't look "busted" to me. It just looks like a 404.
<kiko>     *  Module canonical.launchpad.webapp.metazcml, line 445, in publishTraverse
<kiko>       raise NotFound(self.context, name)
<kiko> NotFound: Object: <Bug at 0x551a5d0>, name: u'people'
<kiko> okay
<bradb> kiko: yup
<kiko> just wanted to know
<kiko> so you can't edit subscribers
<kiko> only subscribe or unsubscribe?
<bradb> yes, by the looks of it
<SteveA> jordi: i'm forwarding you a message sent to the error reports list
<BjornT> yeah, there's only one kind of subscription now
<kiko> and there's a separate page to confirm subscribing? craaack
<SteveA> jordi: it is from someone who wants to use rosetta, and is confused about the apparrent "GPG keys" requirement when getting a launchpad account
<kiko> SteveA, I filed that bug, let me fix that today with mpt
<SteveA> cool
* kiko hates the person's homepage
<kiko> I would not use launchpad if I landed there first thing
<bradb> kiko: the actions portlet, you mean?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  db tables for sprints (patch-2415: mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com)
<kiko> stub, I need help :-(
<SteveA> kiko: btw, i'm working on the person / team actions portlet in a branch
<kiko> can you assist me quickly?
<SteveA> kiko: it uses menus now ;-)
<kiko> SteveA, ah, thanks for the heads-up, we'll leave that alone
<stub> eh?
<bradb> BjornT: Do you think you'll finish the URL changes review today, btw?
* bradb & # coffee, bbiab
<BjornT> bradb: probably tomorrow, don't feel like dedicating the rest of the day for reviewing.
<bradb> ok, thanks
<salgado> stub, can you run two selects on production for me?
<stub> ?
<salgado> stub, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filebffHDd.html
<salgado> stub, kiko gave me a traceback, and I think these two queries will help me to find what the problem was
<kiko> sabdfl, ping -> privmsg
<Kinnison> He's in a meeting in the meeting room
<stub> salgado: Both of those queries returned 0 rows
<Keybuk> hmm
<Keybuk> Running FUNCTIONAL tests from /home/scott/co/canonical/launchpad/launchpad/lib
<Keybuk> Parsing ftesting.zcml
<Keybuk> HELP  I'M  STUCK  IN  A  DOC  TEST  AND  I  CAN'T  GET  OUT!
<salgado> stub, ta
<kiko> Kinnison, cprov: help
<kiko>       Buildd slave chroot tool. r=spiv
<Kinnison> kiko: tool for managing chroots for buildd slaves
<cprov> kiko: a tool for creating chroots automatically
<Kinnison> kiko: basically an automated debootstrap+fixup+mkdirs+apt-get+usermods+stuff+tidyup+tar
<jamesh> SteveA: sorry.  was getting some food. the canonical.database.adapter part of the request timeout stuff is on the pending reviews page
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> i'll look
<Nafallo> the translation-karma was never nuked? :-)
<stub> The fix for stopping the karma explosion hasn't landed yet, so no point
<Kinnison> kiko: claro?
<Nafallo> ah, oki. carlos promised me this would be done tuesday or something ;-)
<kiko> Kinnison, sim, a explicao do cprov ficou melhor.
<Nafallo> last tuesday that is.
<cprov> Kinnison: kiko: what ?! ehe are you switching languages ? 
* cprov is confuse
<Kinnison> kiko: desculpe
* sivang wished he could hear kiko brazillian protuguese not just read
<cprov> kiko: in fact, it is a very handy tool for creating or modifying chroots
* bradb returns
<kiko> Kinnison started it!
<kiko> I said that cprov's explanation was clearer :)
* bradb spotted a web usability shop right next to the cafe this morning
<cprov> Kinnison: no worries, later we will extend you vocabulary for aranha fancy features naming ;)
* Kinnison grins
<Kinnison> kiko: I'm improving :-)
* sabdfl whistles.....
<Kinnison> sabdfl: so noone will know you're afraid?
<SteveA> jamesh: reviewing now
<bradb> so, can someone confirm that upgrading to breezy via dist-upgrade isn't very painful?
<stub> Nafallo: Hmm... I could be wrong. Maybe the fix did land and nobody told me ;)
<stub> kiko: Do you know if Carlos landed this?
* stub wouldn't mind deleting 17 million odd spurious Karma entries
<kiko> stub, let me check.
<lifeless> spiv: ping
<kiko> stub, not yet.
<kiko> Nafallo, I'm reviewing the patch, but it's unfortunately long :-/
<lifeless> cprov: ping
<cprov> lifeless: pong
<Nafallo> dang. I thought the nuke was withdrawn or something :-P
<lifeless> Kinnison: says something about a tac-test-handler
<lifeless> does it import anything from twisted ?
<Kinnison> cprov: basically, does anything, to your knowledge import twisted into the test processes?
<cprov> lifeless: don;t precisely remember, but I think it doesn't, just wrap .tac files throught popen
<Kinnison> cprov: can you check for us?
<cprov> Kinnison: yes
<sabdfl> salgado: will those mass-import karma entries be disregarded after three months, as spec'd?
<sabdfl> or should we delete them?
<sabdfl> stub: ^?
<lifeless> thanks
<stub> We should delete them, because the table has 18million rows for no good reason
<salgado> sabdfl, (oldpoints * 0.2)
<salgado> sabdfl, that's what we use for actions older than 3 months
<sabdfl> salgado: we should totally ignore anything older than 1 yr
<cprov> lifeless: the TacTestSetup class does not require twisted
<sabdfl> stub: is there any way to see which points are from translations imported, and which from translations done through rosetta?
<lifeless> cprov: good. we're searching for something incorrectly importing twisted, which is breaking a merge test
<stub> sabdfl: I don't think so (and neither did Carlos when I asked)
<salgado> sabdfl, that's easy to do. I'll file a bug about it, so I won't forget
<cprov> lifeless: yeah, I'm related, PQM simply forgets my last 3 trial 
<sabdfl> stub: but you can identify the ones for translations, right?
<stub> Yes - there are two karma action types we need to strip out.
<sabdfl> mpt not around?
<lifeless> spiv: ping?
<sabdfl> stub: what are they?
<stub> sabdfl: 13 & 14
<sabdfl> kiko: where's mpt?
<kiko> upstairs
<sabdfl> could you ask him to hop online please?
<lifeless> ddaa: ping
<ddaa> yeah?
<lifeless> ddaa: can you dig up the patch you did to hct to make it force pybaz to non-twisted mode ?
<ddaa> import pybaz
<ddaa> import pybaz.backends.forkexec
<ddaa> pybaz.backend.spawning_strategy = pybaz.backends.forkexec.PyArchSpawningStrategy
<ddaa> Is that what you are asking?
<lifeless> thanks
<ddaa> lifeless: I saw your ping in #bzr, but I was out to lunch and just came back.
<SteveA> jamesh: reviewed, approved with comments.  mailed to you.
<lifeless> ddaa: no probs, was this
<ddaa> BTW, this API sucks. Next time I have a strategy selection knob, I think I'll make it something like pybaz.backend.set_spawning_strategy('forkexec')
<ddaa> lifeless: what do you think?
<lifeless> ddaa: thats the registry pattern, and its good
<ddaa> I was uncertain at the time, but I think a registry is what's needed in such cases.
<sabdfl> kiko: mpt?
<kiko> sorry, was upstairs -- he attended meeting from home, should be in shortly
<sabdfl> kiko: what time is it over there?
<kiko> 11:28
<kiko> I'll talk to him.
<sabdfl> we have too many fricken underlines on our pages
<sabdfl> there's a reason the plone guys do not underline links in portlets
<sabdfl> http://localhost:8086/malone/bugs/1
<SteveA> yeah
<SteveA> i can describe what happened
* ddaa filed a bug on it already
<SteveA> first, no links in portlets were underlined
<sabdfl> the correct strting point
<SteveA> i pointed out that this is fine when the links are all uniformly there, like in the actions portlet
<sabdfl> what's the way to turn off link underlining on a specific <a ?
<SteveA> but, when there's an informational portlet with a single link in it
<SteveA> it is hard to see that there is a link there
<sabdfl> not really 
<sabdfl> it's a different colour
<bradb> sabdfl: I asked mpt about that the other day too. Amazingly, he said all those underlines were /intended/ ;)
<SteveA> and this is a problem when that's the only link to the functionality
<ddaa> sabdfl: class, id, anything usable by a css selector
<SteveA> i missed that link when i was trying to do stuff in launchpad
<SteveA> i'm not colour blind
<SteveA> i vaguely know what launchpad is meant to do
<SteveA> so, i think the answer is to not have any links underlined in portlets, as the rule
<SteveA> and to underline easily-missed links in informational portlets
<sabdfl> and why did lists suddenly get so much more separation?
<sabdfl> they need to be more compact
<ddaa> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2140
<kiko> sabdfl, it's hard to see -- SteveA is right.
<kiko> sabdfl, style="text-decoration: none" 
<ddaa> style attributes are bad style :)
<bradb> They're ok if you really only want to style one element in a specific way.
<SteveA> lifeless: got a sec?
<lifeless> sure
<lifeless> just upgrading anyway
<sabdfl> kiko: i had this fight a long time ago with mpt, but let him go ahead anyway and introduce the underlines
<Kinnison> sabdfl: ready for the hct assembly conversation?
<sabdfl> Kinnison: just about
<kiko> I wonder what UI experts say about many links put together
<lifeless> SteveA: ... ?
<SteveA> privmessage
<SteveA> kiko: we had this discussion, with ui experts and testing on zope3-dev years ago.
<stub> erm.... someone decided it would be a good idea to put our closed automatic error report mailing list as our contact address on https://launchpad.net/feedback :-/
<SteveA> kiko: came to exactly the conclusion i said above.
<stub> So people will have been emailing and getting their messages bounced
<SteveA> um, no
<SteveA> eaten
<SteveA> discarded
<kiko> stub, SteveA: aren't they just held?
<SteveA> no
<mpt> stub: Does the offline error message use lib/canonical/launchpad/offline.html directly, or do I need to ping you if I change it?
<SteveA> error reports that aren't from one of our systems, that don't contain the word "Bug" (case insensitively) in the subject line, go to /dev/null
<kiko> SteveA, stub: well, I just gome some email through it, and I often do..
<stub> kiko: I just manually processed that one
<SteveA> ah..
<zyga> hello :)
<kiko> so they aren't discarded, as I said
<SteveA> i'm thinking of the externally published "system error, mail this address" address
<kiko> :-P
<stub> Anyway - it is broken!
<SteveA> not the actualy mailing list address
<stub> kiko: They are. I have discarded a number
<SteveA> the address for external use has that "bug" in the subject thing on it
<kiko> stub, manually.
<stub> I'm setting it to automatic
<bradb> sabdfl: I think I may have found an ordering problem in xx-specs-07-dependencies.txt.
<bradb> sabdfl: expected output shows:
<bradb>     - ...Support Native SVG Objects...
<bradb>     - ...Support E4X in EcmaScript...
<bradb>     - ...This specification...
<bradb>     - ...Support &lt;canvas&gt; Objects...
<bradb> But in actual, E4X comes before Native
<kiko> stub, well, then we need to change launchpad -- don't do that before, or we will throw away user's email. 
* bradb takes a quick look at the template/view
<kiko> users'
<kiko> SteveA, don't you agree?
<SteveA> i think it is okay for users to get bounces from that after we've changed the advertised email address.
<kiko> right
<kiko> but we haven't changed it yet.
* kiko sighs
<SteveA> riht.  so as you said.
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<mpt> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> mpt: do you have any menus work i should merge from?
<mpt> SteveA: Not yet
<SteveA> mpt: okay.  i'll proceed with app menus along the lines we discussed last night.
<mpt> Sorry, I've been waiting for baz for the last 29 minutes
<SteveA> gah
<SteveA> things will be better under our new bazng overlords
<mpt> it finished!
<mpt> SteveA: ok, so which ones would you like me to do?
<SteveA> what tree do you have?
<SteveA> baz tree-id please
<mpt> mpt@canonical.com/launchpad--menus--0509--base-0
<SteveA> and what was it branched off?
<mpt> mpt@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0
<SteveA> really?
<SteveA> not from my menus branch?
<mpt> I'm merging in from that now
<SteveA> steve.alexander@canonical.com/launchpad--Menus--0--patch-81
<SteveA> you'll want to make sure you get up to that patch level
<mpt> ok
<lifeless> brb
<bradb> While I'm waiting for baz branch...has anyone ever mentioned the idea of LP developer blogs?
<salgado> BjornT, SteveA, might you guys have some time today for us to sort out the pending questions re: basicvoting--1's review?
<SteveA> salgado: i have 1.5 hours more before i go to the gym
<SteveA> BjornT: seeing you at pov tomorrow?
<BjornT> SteveA: sure, 10am?
<SteveA> ok
<salgado> SteveA, let's do it now, then?
<SteveA> okay, shortly
<SteveA> i'll ping
<salgado> okay
<bradb> So, one thing I think we could do more of is focussing on Launchpad users. Not just at a software development/UI level, but at a user experience level.
<bradb> I think developer blogs might be able to help in that direction. Previewing new features, teaching users how to use existing features. Helping users kick ass, basically.
<bradb> People like to kick ass. Kicking ass is fun.
<bradb> There are various examples of people doing this with great success, e.g. 37signals, makers of Basecamp, the hugely popular project management software built with Ruby on Rails.
<bradb> 37signals has 1. a developer blog: http://www.37signals.com/svn/ and 2. product forums, like: http://www.backpackit.com/forum/
<SteveA> salgado: i'm going to take a workrave for a few mins, then i'll ping about the voting diffs
<salgado> okay
<jordi> SteveA: but AFAIK, there's no need for a gpg key to use lp, right?
<salgado> jordi, right
<jordi> ok
<jordi> I'll reply.
<kiko> jordi, I'm going to fix that TODAY
<SteveA> jordi: yep.  it is a matter of confusing workflow on joining
<SteveA> jordi: so, we i to reply, i'd apologise for the confusing workflow, check if they have a launchpad account set up properly, and welcome them to rosetta
<SteveA> in some order or other
<jordi> kiko: oh so there's a bug about lp currently requiring it, or it's just appearing to require it?
<jordi> right
<kiko> yeah, I filed it IIRC
<jordi> NO WONDER IT'S KIKOS FAULT
<jordi> kiko: did you want anything for me yesterday night, way too late? :)
<kiko> yes
<kiko> good that you reminded me
<mpt> bradb: I think, first get a top-quality product (like Basecamp), *then* start writing about it
<mpt> Fixing bugs (and implementing missing features) is probably a greater return on investment at the moment :-)
<bradb> mpt: LP development is, generally speaking, pretty disconnected from the people using the software, IMHO. It would be interesting to consider ways of focussing more on the users, IMHO.
<bradb> mpt: Basecamp, for example: "top-quality"? ish. But then, they've kept things ridiculously simple, and they keep in constant contact with their users.
<bradb> There's a really interesting person in the blogosphere who focusses more in-depth on "creating passionate users" (and why that's so important): http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/
<bradb> She also advocates "teaching" users as one of the best ways to help create passionate users. Passionate users evangelize. Passionate users sell your product for you. Sure, we're not selling inflatable plastic japanese furniture here, but then, she's not talking about those kinds of products either.
<bradb> Anyway, that's my $0.02 to how we can help get people excited about LP. baz switch just finished.
<mpt> bradb: But they didn't start until February, long after they already had a good product.
<mpt> (37 Signals, I mean)
<kiko> jordi, here:
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1545
<kiko> jordi, do I need to do anything to help this guy out
<kiko> or are you okay?
<jordi> kiko: as for now he's the only one, he'll have to join Ubuntu translators without creating a team.
<jordi> When there's more, we'll create the team
<jordi> so, in short, and him to the group
<kiko> add him to which group? ubuntu translators?
<bradb> mpt: I don't know for certain one way or the other if Feb was the first time they ever started running a blog, nor if it was an intentional delay. The CUP blog above (seriously fanboyed by 37signals, btw) mentions that "teaching" users is more important than, yes, usability even. :)
<jordi> kiko: yes
<kiko> jamesh:
<kiko>     *  Module zope.interface.adapter, line 461, in queryMultiAdapter
<kiko>       return factory(*objects)
<kiko>     * Module canonical.launchpad.browser.cal, line 763, in __init__
<kiko>       self._subscriptions = ICalendarSubscriptionSubset(user)
<kiko>     * Module zope.interface.interface, line 698, in __call__
<kiko>       raise TypeError("Could not adapt", obj, self)
<kiko> TypeError: ('Could not adapt', None, <InterfaceClass canonical.launchpad.interfaces.cal.ICalendarSubscriptionSubset>)
* cprov -> lunch
<kiko> bradb, I just saw an error with +upstreamtask generating some invalid SQL, but lost it
<bradb> kiko: How do I reproduce it?
<salgado> kiko, is that when you try to subscribe to a calendar?
<kiko> salgado, not sure, let me check.
<kiko> salgado, /++vh++https:launchpad.net:443/++/products/newton/+calendar/+subscribe
<salgado> maybe it's the same problem described in https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2166
<salgado> yes, it probably is
<kiko> cool
<kiko> bradb, no clue, picked it up in /errors, but it said +upstreamtask
<kiko> salgado: https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-translators/ isn't listing the members -- is that the bug you fixed?
<bradb> kiko: Hm, sorry, not much I can do without knowing what error occurred or how to reproduce it.
<kiko> bradb, pester people for access to the logs
<bradb> kiko: Why are error messages being removed so quickly?
<kiko> no clue
<kiko> SteveA and stub would know, though
<salgado> kiko, yes, all members are deactivated
<kiko> wow, true
<kiko> how did that happen
<kiko> jordi, why are all ubuntu translators.. oh.
<kiko> jordi, do I need to add him to the ubuntu translation team?
* bradb fetches mail to see if he can find the error in the Rosetta error^W^WLaunchpad error report.
<kiko> salgado, yeah, but it still includes a header, which is weird, right?
<salgado> kiko, right. I forgot to check when there's no members
<SteveA> bradb: errors are removed from /errors on restart.  and also, there are two production servers.
<SteveA> so, one /errors for each.
<jordi> kiko: yes, for the "sa" team.
<jordi> kiko: ie, instead of adding ubuntu-l10n-sa, you add him directly.
<jordi> when he successfully creates a more than 1 person team, we'll switch that to a team, not a person,
<kiko> yep
<kiko> jordi@canonical.com?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  launchpad-error-reports is a CLOSED mailing list (and always has been!) (patch-2416: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<jordi> kiko: what for?
<bradb> SteveA: In what way is /errors affected by their being two production servers?
<jordi> that's my address
<bradb> there, even
<kiko> jordi, CC:
<kiko> thanks.
<jordi> but oh :D
<jordi> ok
<kiko> you never emailed me :-P
<jordi> NO WAY
<SteveA> bradb: you'll see randomly one of the /errors on each request
<SteveA> or something like that
<jordi> what does "fud" mean anyway
<SteveA> depending on affinity settings 
<bradb> SteveA: How hard would it be to fix that?
<kiko-fud> fear
<kiko-fud> uncertainty
<SteveA> fix what?
<kiko-fud> doubt
<kiko-fud> in other words
<kiko-fud> LUNCH
<kiko-fud> SteveA, stop losing errors, or post the logs publically (PLEASE, FOR THE 10000th TIME :)
<SteveA> the logs are supposed to be public to us
<bradb> SteveA: /errors randomly switching between servers, when all I really want is to see the error messages
<jordi> kiko-fud: lol, I see.
<SteveA> the /errors should go away totally
<bradb> oh
<jordi> happy hacking on lunchpad then.
<kiko-fud> yeah, we should write code that has no errors
<bradb> Hm, I don't yet see any mention of +upstreamtask in the error logs that were mailed to me.
<bradb> Maybe the next report (which should be along any minute now) will include them.
<bradb> BjornT: How much feedback have you gotten from mdz re: pre-defined bug reports?
<mdz> bradb: one relatively short email
<lifeless> pqm going down
<BjornT> bradb: enough to get started at least. i've sent a mail to ubuntu-devel too
<bradb> BjornT: cool
<dand> can i see the default plural form for a language in rosetta/
<bradb> mdz: ok, thanks. If you have any ideas for more reports (or complaints about usability), feel free to let me know.
<ddaa> lifeless: reviewed your pybaz patch
<ddaa> lifeless: you are free to hate me for that review :)
<dand> there's a po file with a broken plural form (extra \n in the middle) and i'm looking for the source of that (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/aboutubuntu/ro/+translate)
<mdke> dand, better ping jordi about it
<mdz> bradb: I'm not using malone on a regular basis, so I don't have much to say at the moment
<bradb> mdz: fair enough
<dand> mdke: is it ok if i mail him about that and send you a fixed version?
<mdke> dand, yes, best to mail rosetta-users@lists
<dand> mdke: ok, will do that
<mdke> thanks
<dand> mdke: we should thank you, really :)
<mdke> we'll thank each other then
<mdke> lemme know when the new po is on its way
<lifeless> ddaa: I hope it boils down to 'no tests, oh well pybaz is dying'
<jordi> dand: I don't think there's anywhere Rosetta will show this info
<dand> ok, i'll first do a review of the translation
<ddaa> lifeless: not quite
<jordi> dand: it's only in the database afaik.
<ddaa> there's at least one place where you breaking the API and one coding style violation.
<dand> jordi: could anyone check the plural form for Romanian (ro)?
<lifeless> ddaa: where di dyou mail the rview ?
<ddaa> Reviews mailing list, you in cc
<dand> jordi: if it helps, a simplified form is: "Plural-Forms: nplurals=3;plural=(n==1?0:(n==0||((n%100)>0&&(n%100)<20))?1:2)\n"
<ddaa> lifeless: besides, pybaz is still going to be around for a while, the fact it has gone into maintenance mode is not a reason to save writing tests or avoid existing patterns. It's just a reason to stop trying to refactor it into something sane.
<ddaa> at least, in my understandnig
<ddaa> I'd expect that a few people people are going keep using baz for some time, and pybaz would be useful to them.
<jordi> dand: I think we have (n==1?0:(((n%100>19)||((n%100==0)&&(n!=0)))?2:1))
<jordi> but not sure
<jordi> SteveA: is anyone available to have a look in the database?
<SteveA> no, only certain special people
<dand> jordi: yeah, we've received the simplified version from bruno haible of gettext
<jordi> SteveA: I can't help with the SQL statement because I don't know at all where it is.
<jordi> dand: great.
<SteveA> jordi: i don't know what you're talking about
<jordi> dand: Please e-mail rosetta@canonical.com, I'll resend to stub when he's available.
<jordi> SteveA: we need to change the Romanian plural forms
<dand> jordi: will do. any ideas regarding the extra newline in the plural form?
<jordi> what extra newline?
<SteveA> jordi: easiest is to do it next week, when carlos is back
<dand> jordi: see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/aboutubuntu/ro/+translate
<jordi> SteveA: yeah. We'll have the email
<jordi> dand: hrm, I can't paste. My mouse just died.
<dand> jordi: the exported po has the plural form splitted on two lines
<jordi> dand: I requested a download.
<dand> jordi: thanks
<mdke> jordi, you can see it at https://docteam.ubuntu.com/branches/breezy/gnome/aboutubuntu/ro/
<jordi> ah, better
<mdke> dand, have you still got the link to the pastebin of the error?
<dand> mdke: http://pastebin.com/364648 , but jordi can't paste :)
<mdke> oh
<jordi> I'm copying by hand :)
<jordi> mdke: your url is broken for me
<dand> jordi: xchat has a "open in firefox tab" context menu, you know :)
<mdke> jordi, damn sorry, put a /repos/ before /branches/
<jordi> no mouse, no paste, no context menu :D
<dand> bad mouse
<jordi> dand: every file exported from rosetta results in this Plural-Forms?
<jordi> even if the submitted file was ok?
<jordi> heh, it's cool to be able to read romanian almost perfectly.
<mdke> wow
<mdke> i've gtg now
<jordi> laters
<dand> jordi: gnome-app-install looks ok in rosetta (aboutubuntu has the form broken in the interface, too), i'll try an export...
<jordi> dand: I do't see anything broken in the interfac,e, what exactly?
<dand> Plural Expression:
<dand> (n == 1 ? 0: (((n %
<dand> that's where the \n comes into place
<jordi> dand: oh, I see it now, sorry.
<jordi> for some reason rosetta isn't liking % in there.
<jordi> This is a bug.
<jordi> dand: can you file one?
<dand> jordi: sure
<jordi> many thanks
<jordi> wtf, its 7PM?
<jordi> damn it
<dand> i'll then postpone sending the new plural form on rosetta, since it's not critical and it could affect reproducing this bug
<jordi> dand: good
<jordi> or, add a comment about a better expression being <whatever> in your bug report.
<sabdfl> mpt: further thoughts on bug-headline-tasks
<jordi> or send the email, and say that fixing the plural expression would hide bug #foo in rosetta
<dand> jordi: ok
<sabdfl> how about a little icon to indicate that there is text in the whiteboard for that task, with the text in the title="" attribute
<jordi> hey, you've got a nice list of translators in the team
<sabdfl> ?
<jordi> that's great.
<dand> jordi: better left it unchanged :)
<dand> jordi: yeah, that's due to the translation marathons
<jordi> kiko-fud: is anyone working/has worked on improving that "Not Malone official" string?
<jordi> sabdfl: re ^^, I suggest we show when it is, not when it's not.
<bradb> jordi: I can probably get to that today, if noone else does it.
* SteveA --> evening of exercise
<jordi> bradb: nice, let's see what the others say
<jordi> SteveA: have a nice evening
<SteveA> thanks jamesh 
<SteveA> um, thanks jordi 
<kiko> jordi, mpt, I believe
<mpt> sabdfl: Where would you put the icon? I don't think that would be very discoverable
<bradb> sabdfl: Under the new URL scheme, if you're really keen on in some way exposing something about the whiteboard on the bug page, we could even just put that message somewhere on the bug page.
<Keybuk> >>> d = {"foo": "this is foo", "bar": "this is bar", "baz": "this is baz"}
<Keybuk> >>> dict((v, k) for (k,v) in d.items())
<Keybuk> {'this is baz': 'baz', 'this is bar': 'bar', 'this is foo': 'foo'}
<sabdfl> bradb: no thanks, i'd like the bug page to stay neutral
<Kinnison> Keybuk: gotcha, ta
<Kinnison>         suffixpockets = dict((v,k) for (k,v) in pocketsuffix.items())
<Kinnison> comme a ?
<sabdfl> mpt: also, i'll leave the little man on the bugtask if there is an assignee even though it's linked to another bug tracker
<mpt> sabdfl: I gave SteveA a diff to re-remove the underlining from portlets and to remove the underlining from the fix requests table, since baz is working much faster on his machine
<Keybuk> use .iteritems() for added not-making-temporary-lists-ness
<sabdfl> mpt: please discuss further changes to this widget with me
<sabdfl> mpt: rock, thanks
<Kinnison> Keybuk: screw that, it's done once on module import
<sabdfl> stubplease could you get that fix ^^^ into the rollout?
<bradb> sabdfl: It seems to already been slightly biased for the sake of usability. e.g. highlighting the current ask and a "Edit Assignee/Status Details" link in the actions portlet.
<sabdfl> does anyone know if stub tagged off yet?
<bradb> s/ask/task/
<bradb> lifeless: er, was pqm still dead?
<sabdfl> Edit Assignee doesn't appear in my actions portlet on the bug, and i would delete it if it did
<sabdfl> bradb: ^
<lifeless> bradb: 'pqm is going down'
<bradb> lifeless: "still dead?" :)
<bradb> for how long?
<kiko> sabdfl, one day you need to explain to me why the bug page profits from being neutral..
<sabdfl> kiko: you have so little faith
<bradb> sabdfl: Just curious: in what way does it help the user to not have a discoverable way of assigning/editing the task details? (particularly because this is among the more common points of confusion reported from people that use malone, even after they've already been *shown* how to do it! :)
<sabdfl> think back to cape town, and the things we were fighting about back then ;-)
<sabdfl> bradb: how are we doing on MaloneOneDotZero?
<lifeless> bradb: magic marker time
<bradb> sabdfl: (btw, that link is part of the URL changes branch.)
<lifeless> bradb: not dead, down.
<kiko> sabdfl, /we/ were fighting for hanging bugs on contexts, you were against it, I recall well
<sabdfl> bradb: drop that change please
<sabdfl> err.. you were fighting for moving the bugtask page INTO the bug page on the context
<sabdfl> that was the difference, not the location of the bug page
<kiko> you may have misunderstood
<bradb> sabdfl: blocked on URL changes review. other than that, I have no idea, because the requirements haven't been confirmed to me. If it were up to me, we'd roll out right after the URL change lands and we ensure that the system is still rock solid.
<kiko> but there is little difference between the two situations
<kiko> bradb, that's what I'm also tending towards
<bradb> s/roll out/roll out 1.0/
<sabdfl> bradb: please create a malone1.0 milestone in LP
<bradb> ok
<sabdfl> please assign to it the specs and bugs that you believe should be 1.0 material
<sabdfl> i asked for that two weeks ago
<sabdfl> bradb: it's YOUR job to manage the scope of 1.0. if there are changes, you should always, always know where we stand
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=bjornt merge support for hints and ancestry of manifests. (patch-2417: scott@canonical.com)
<sabdfl> we had an agreed list in UDU, and there have been changes, but there's no reason for you not to have a page that lists the spec requirements of 1.0
<bradb> sabdfl: I've done a heck of a lot of work in the wiki to provide an accurate picture of what I understand Malone 1.0 to be, FWIW. (LaunchpadOneDotZero is also up-to-date, to the best of my knowledge.)
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> bradb: could you capture that in the spec tracker please?
<bradb> yes, doing that now
<sabdfl> coolio
<sabdfl> as far as i'm concerned malone is looking very good
<sabdfl> so we should be converging on 1.0 at this point
<sabdfl> i'm very pleased with bradb and bjornt's work since sao carlos
<bradb> i'm happy to hear that you're happy with how it's coming along
<sabdfl> bradb: i'm landing a bug-headline-tasks shortly, could you ensure that you branches do not change it before 1.0 please?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/hct--devel--1: magic marker upgrade from scotts hct branch (patch-18: scott@canonical.com)
<bradb> sabdfl: yes, i'll make sure
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/sourcerer--devel--0: magic marker upgrade from scotts sourcerer branch (patch-28: scott@canonical.com)
* bradb ponders the spec tracker...
<bradb> name, title, and summary required. hm.
<bradb> the URL field is also pretty tiny
<lifeless> geez you guys are impatient
<lifeless> pqm open again
<bradb> "Constraint not satisfied"!!!!!
<bradb> I bet the spec name has to be all lower-case
<bradb> s/-//
<mpt> You're reporting all these as bugs, right? :-)
<bradb> i will, yeah
<bradb> i need the karma, badly
<bradb> bugs #2320, #2321 and #2323 filed, and given to the sab
<sabdfl> bradb: is there a way to make the field convert to lowercase, and submit lowercase?
<kiko> sabdfl, yes -- in your form handler do a .lower() and then save it.
<bradb> sabdfl: If you want to do that everywhere that a name is entered, and in the same way, then I'd imagine that a custom widget is the way to do that.
<kiko> oh
<kiko> in javascript, it is possible -- but you don't really want JS for that.
<kiko> the best is to use a text-transform and then a backend transform too.
<mpt> we went through this in March-April
<mpt> you have to handle it in the back end regardless of what you do in the front end
<mpt> because you can't trust the world's population of Web browsers to give you only valid data.
<kiko> Keybuk, sabdfl: should I include HCT in the launchpad reports?
<sabdfl> kiko: yes please!
<sabdfl> bradb: ok. the new form machinery that's landing shortly makes this easy
<Kinnison> anyone available for a drive-by review?
<bradb> sabdfl: To do it world-wide I think you want a custom widget.
<Kinnison> (should be pretty easy to review, it's one method and its doctest)
<bradb> sabdfl: If you only want it done in one form, all you have to do currently is override .create in your view class.
<bradb> sabdfl: I was going to ask: should URL be required for specification? What if the spec doesn't yet exist at a URL?
<sabdfl> bradb: a custom widget would probably be a good idea
<sabdfl> bradb: hmm... good point, pls file a bug and assign to me
<bradb> will do
<Kinnison> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file88bpWi.html
<Kinnison> Scott kinda wants this functionality :-)
<bradb> sabdfl: bug #2324
<bradb> (assigned to you)
<Kinnison> To sort a list of strings in descending order of length: foo.sort(lambda a,b: len(a) > len(b)) yes?
<mdz> kiko: what's you reaction to the latest langpack feedback from pitti?
<kiko> ecstasy, mdz
<mdz> s/you/your/
<bradb> sabdfl: Is there any way to batch target specs to a milestone?
<bradb> I'm getting a bit carsick from all this data entry
<bradb> But the specs that I understand to be part of (or, at least, need consideration for being part of) Malone 1.0 are all there: https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+specs
<bradb> right, I need food, bbiab
* bradb & # lunch
<cprov> why does PQM does this with my branch ? it simply disapeared, not even the email, saying : YOU'VE CRASHED PQM, GO AWAY ;)
<cprov> lifeless: ping 
<kiko> Kinnison, sort and then .reverse()
<kiko> Kinnison, using sort functions is very slow
<Kinnison>         # Sort it longest string first
<Kinnison>         suffixes.sort(lambda a,b: cmp(len(b), len(a)))
<kiko> bad
<Kinnison> it's a short list (about four entries usually)
<kiko> suffixes.sort()
<Kinnison> mark seemed to like it :-(
<kiko> suffixes.reverse()
<Kinnison> sort() is an alphanum sort
<kiko> does that say much? 
<Kinnison> yes?
* kiko runs
<kiko> yes
<Kinnison> right
<kiko> well
<Kinnison> that's not what I want
<kiko> it uses cmp()
<Kinnison> I want it sorted Longest string first
<kiko> what are you comparing?
<kiko> okay
<Kinnison> as per the comment
<kiko> the correct way to do this
<Kinnison> cunningly placed above the sort
<kiko> is to use a DSU
<kiko> or use the key argument to sort
<kiko> help(sort) for information
<kiko> for yet more information look at the python documentation
<kiko> the latter is more compact
<kiko> but python2.4-only
<Kinnison> LP needs 2.4
<Kinnison> sort(...)
<Kinnison>     L.sort(cmp=None, key=None, reverse=False) -- stable sort *IN PLACE*;
<Kinnison>     cmp(x, y) -> -1, 0, 1
<Kinnison> gotta love python docs
<kiko> Kinnison, key=len should work
<Kinnison> so suffixes.sort(key=len)
<Kinnison> suffixes.reverse()
<kiko> >>> a = ["a", "bbb", "zz", "oooo"] 
<kiko> >>> a.sort()
<kiko> >>> a
<kiko> ['a', 'bbb', 'oooo', 'zz'] 
<kiko> >>> a.sort(key=len)
<kiko> >>> a
<kiko> ['a', 'zz', 'bbb', 'oooo'] 
<kiko> Kinnison:
<Kinnison> and you prefer that to my lambda?
<Kinnison> :-(
<kiko> <Kinnison>     L.sort(cmp=None, key=None, reverse=False) -- stable sort *IN PLACE*;
<Kinnison> okay
<kiko> a.sort(key=len, reverse=True)
<Kinnison> okay
<ddaa> I think the key=len idiom is more readable once you are used to the idiom
<ddaa> (it's also faster for unsorted input, not that this matters in this case)
<cprov> kiko: may I check the PQM errolog before it's late ?  it did the same weird thing again, abort my request after long time processing ...
<kiko> cprov, sorry?
<cprov> kiko: ok, PQM is refusing my request, as I said before,  in a "never seen" manner, the job simply disapear after long time processing, no result email. 
<kiko> cprov, probably hung and somebody killed it
<kiko> just resend
<cprov> kiko: we should look at PQM log before it gets too late and investigate this error, it was already the third time today
<cprov> kiko: It'd be probably worth to figure out what is going on, my tree presents the "importd/Taxi" error when running check_merge 
<kiko> cprov, just insist, is the only thing I can suggest
<cprov> kiko: yup, thanks
* cprov keep trying and freezes when thinking about the conflicts again ...
* cprov starring "Living a bad day"
<kiko> cprov, failed again?
<cprov> kiko: no no, I'd be totally happy if it produces responses fast like that, we'll know in 1,5 hours (3 jobs before mine)
<cprov> kiko: currently if fighting with an unhappy "refuel" of 20 min and still running
<kiko> ffs
<cprov> kiko: no tears, but I/O kills me on hillary (network & HD) even using FL_COW
<kiko> same here, cprov -- it's a fucker
<cprov> kiko: indeed
<kiko> missing a desktop? :)
<cprov> 2x 19'' inches LCD screen, SCSI disks, almost like anthem would make me happy ;) (keep inside my log dream ...)
<SteveA> hiya
<SteveA> aw shite.  mpt: that merge failed.
<SteveA> and it failed because of hct errors
<SteveA> Keybuk: you still on the launchpad list?
* SteveA forwards pqm failure to launchpad list and Keybuk 
<Keybuk> SteveA: yup, why?
<Keybuk> blame lifeless
<Keybuk> he force-landed the merge ;)
* SteveA submits the merge again
<Keybuk> what was the failure?
<SteveA> Keybuk: what merge is that you are talking about?
<Keybuk> hct manifest hints and ancestry
<Keybuk> as well as bring the hct and sourcerer branches up to date
<SteveA> ERROR: testCreatesLoggingInstance (hct.cli.tests.test_command.CommandManager_InitLogging)
<salgado> SteveA, aparently submitting it again won't work. cprov's merge failed, then your's failed, then bradb's and now it's going to be my turn to receive a failure
<SteveA> that's the first failure
<SteveA> the point of test suites is that we don't get into this state
* bradb returns, crushed at the pqm news
<salgado> you got a failure, right bradb ?
<bradb> checking mail right now to find out
<bradb> Seriously latency with my provider in Asia
<bradb> s/ly//
<SteveA> bradb: dude, want a gmail account?
<bradb> i have one
<cprov> bradb: you probably didn't receive it, like me
<SteveA> i sent my failure from pqm on to the launchpad list
<SteveA> the change i'm trying to get pqm to land is the UI stuff from mpt that sabdfl wanted cherrypicked
<cprov> SteveA: ok, I'll arrive "someday" here :(
<SteveA> "it'll", i think you mean
<SteveA> otherwise, i'm confused
<SteveA> Keybuk: who can fix this?
<SteveA> Keybuk: can you fix it by disabling those tests or reverting the screwed changes?
<Keybuk> there aren't any screwed changes that I know of
<SteveA> today is "tag for production day"
<Keybuk> lifeless ran the test suite before he merged
<Keybuk> and pqm ran it again
<SteveA> if the tests are failing and they weren't earlier, then there must be some screwed changes, by definition
<SteveA> is lifeless in the uk still?
<Keybuk> he's in the pub
<cprov> SteveA: you start get my typos and I'll kick "gaim" definetly of my life ASAP.
<bradb> SteveA: FTR, the failure I got is my own fault.
<bradb> (it was a failure in person-pages.txt for me)
<kiko> SteveA, Keybuk: could they be intermittent changes?
<SteveA> okay, i chatted with lifeless on the phone
<SteveA> he's going to look into it first thing tomorrow uk time, when he has bandwidth at the canonical office
<Keybuk> oh, wow, that's kind of interesting
<Keybuk> lifeless must have not actually run the test cases after all
<Keybuk> and just "assumed it all worked"
<SteveA> stub can still cherrypick the change i have from mpt into production separately if necessary
* SteveA mails stub, cc list
<SteveA> Keybuk: okay, so it will be obvious to lifeless what needs doing tomorrow?
<Keybuk> I think I can fix it with a well-placed merge
<SteveA> that would be nice.
<SteveA> i'm off to get food and sleep.  can you send a message to the list / lifeless if you get it fixed?
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> somebody should blow up pqm
<kiko> declare a national holiday
* bradb hires Uma Thurman to Kill pqm
<SteveA> dude
* cprov just wondering if it's not his nasty branch doing shits inside PQM
<SteveA> if i hired uma thurman
<SteveA> it wouldn't be for stopping some process on a linux box
<Keybuk> no, it was kinda my fault
<bradb> heh
<Keybuk> I hadn't done an archive-mirror before lifeless spammed the changes on
<Keybuk> but then he didn't actually do make check_merge either
<bradb> PEBKAPQM
<cprov> Keybuk: could be but why every one has received email about the failure and I'm not ? do you have a clue or the results are unpredictable at all and I can sleep in peace today
<Keybuk> no clue about that, pqm probably ate your branch
<Keybuk> maybe yours was the one lifeless killed
<cprov> Keybuk: maybe, but 3 times ?! how odd am I today ;)
<bradb> cprov: You can at least sleep well knowing that your request FAILED.
<bradb> Even if they don't find the body.
<SteveA> mpt: please send me an email at the end of the day telling me what i can merge from and summarizing what's done on menus.  i want to continue the work tomorrow morning.
* SteveA goes home
<SteveA> good night, lunchpadders
<SteveA> whereever you are
<cprov> SteveA: night
<cprov> bradb: I'm not sure if it helps in this circunstancies, but I'd be much happier with a BIG failure email :(
<bradb> heh heh heeeeh
<bradb> cprov: btw, it's a longshot, but did you try checking on chinstrap if you had mail there?
<bradb> s/if/to see if/
<cprov> bradb: not yet , good idea
<cprov> bradb: no access to email locally in chinstrap it's forward to my real one, gave up, let's sort it out tomorrow, will work in other branches of mine
<bradb> cprov: Hm, strange, when I type "mail", I see things.
<bradb> Things that look like mail messages, more specifically.
<cprov> bradb: eheh "i see things like dead people ?!", me too, not helpfull at all, it's ok for today 
<bradb> ok
<kiko> bradb, found the bug
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1126810820.20.867802577266
* bradb looks
<kiko> ERROR: invalid input syntax for integer: "+distrotask" SELECT BugWatch.id, BugWatch.remotebug, BugWatch.datecreated, BugWatch.lastchanged, BugWatch.lastchecked, BugWatch.bug, BugWatch.owner, BugWatch.remotestatus, BugWatch.bugtracker FROM BugWatch WHERE (BugWatch.id = '+distrotask')
<kiko> a broken link, but it should be a 404, not that.
<kiko> bradb, leave this to gneuman, he can do it.
<kiko> (he's the intern)
<bradb> I thought the bug you found was in +upstreamtask?
<kiko> probably happens there as well
<kiko> broken links
<kiko> linking to /++vh++https:launchpad.net:443/++/malone/bugs/1108/watches/+distrotask
<kiko> no clue who's linking there though
<bradb> hm, me neither. oh well, gneuman'll find out.
<kiko> heh
<bradb> maybe the googlebot tries to traverse to watches on its own?
<bradb> if it traverses to watches, it lands on the bug page again. it might store the URL that it's currently traversing to and append the relative links to that that it finds in the page, which could cause this error.
<kiko> perhaps
<kiko> that would be a bug in googlebot though
<bradb> yup
<sabdfl> i doubt its googlebot
<sabdfl> i fixed a bug recently where $bug_url was not being used properly
<sabdfl> and i might have introduced a new bug in the process
<sabdfl> find it, and we'll see
<sabdfl> grep for +distrotask
<kiko> yeah
<sabdfl> could be a portlet
<sabdfl> i bet its a portlet on a bug, and it's being displayed on a watch page
<kiko> funny though, that bug doesn't have any watches
<mpt> "* Applying 40 revisions .."
<bradb> mpt: showoff
* mpt cries
<bradb> kiko: should we at least ask elm<last letter omitted to avoid nick highlighting> to bounce pqm?
<bradb> ah, looks like cprov's merge request has been processed (though it looks like failure)
<cprov> bradb: yes, this time I have an email ;)
<bradb> cool
<cprov> bradb:  and finally the expected error:  missing '/home/pqm/.hct/log' 
<kiko> lol
* bradb laughs, tearfully
<bradb> mpt: Any news on the menu tabs bug? I can't find the bug report, searching for "menu" or "tab".
<mpt> bradb: No news
<mpt> I keep getting more urgent things to do
<mpt> like application menus
<mpt> and desuckifying the person page
<mpt> and making Rosetta readable
<sabdfl> bradb: suddenly getting a lot more bugs filed in malone
<sabdfl> it's that good UI, plus Launchpadintegration i think
<kiko> sabdfl, I have a problem that I want your advice on
<kiko> have 2 minutes?
<bradb> sabdfl: could be. I'm looking forward to getting the menus sorted out, among other things.
<bradb> gotta be somewhere in 50 minutes, later dudes
* bradb & # out
<sabdfl> kiko: will call
<sabdfl> actually, let's go by privmsg
<sabdfl> stepping afk, back online in 20
<sabdfl> kiko: ^
<kiko> oki
<sabdfl> hi
<rbelem> hi sabdfl 
<sabdfl> hi rbelem
<rbelem> =)
#launchpad 2005-09-21
<sabdfl> mpt: pls would you help ogra design a less bogn screensaver unlock dialog?
<sabdfl> bong, even
<mpt> sabdfl: It'd be a pleasure
<sabdfl> thanks muchly
<mpt> The design isn't the problem, ogra and I both know what's wrong, but apparently even moving a button is a herculean code task
<sabdfl> errr... why?
<mpt> something to do with the way the xscreensaver code is written, combined with it not using a toolkit, I guess
<mpt> ask ogra
<Burgundavia> sabdfl, is it worth pouring a lot of money into the xscreensaver dialog when we are likely to drop it for dapper?
<Nafallo> gnome-screensaver wfm ;-)
<ddaa> omg... svn is so BoOOoong...
<ddaa> say you have a branch A with 3 commits, latest revision is 4 (1 is import). Then you create a branch B with one import and one commit (latest revision of B is 6).
<ddaa> It _looks like_ when you update A after creating B, then you update it to... revision 6!
<ddaa> even though revisions 5 and 6 have nothing to do with A!
<lifeless> here
<lifeless> looking aete it now
<sabdfl> lifeless: be great if i can land stuff tonight
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: rollout failed patch (patch-2418)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/hct--devel--1: revert failed patch (patch-19)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/sourcerer--devel--0: revert failed patch (patch-29)
<Nafallo> hmm
<Nafallo> looks fun :-P
<lifeless> sabdfl: scotts patch is backed out, running check again to be sure
<sabdfl> thanks rob
<lifeless> no probs
<lifeless> no idea how I let it slip through
* lifeless is sorry about that
<sabdfl> np
<sabdfl> we'll sort it out in the morning
<sabdfl> sweet dreams
<lifeless> yup
<sabdfl> did you have fun this evening?
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> I'll be another 20+ while the final test runs
<lifeless> yup, was goo d to catch up. we were as a 'mysociety.org' evening
<lifeless> which is some sort of apolitical political hackers group
<lifeless> and was interesting in its own right
<cprov> lifeless: hi rob, is it solved already ?
<lifeless> cprov: I've rolled the patch out
<lifeless> but pqm is still disabled while I check tests really do pass again
<cprov> lifeless: ok, I can do it later, at home, thank you for come and fix it ;)
<lifeless> np
<lifeless> ok, pqm is back
<lifeless> night all
* cprov sent a PQM "bomb" request and leave ;)
<cprov> night guys
* mpt wonders why he's getting "Failed to verify signature" error messages from PQM without having sent anything to PQM in the first place
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: Cherry pick patch-2416 into production (patch-5: stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: Executive override on production link style (patch-6: steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<sabdfl> morning all
<sabdfl> stub: morning - did that landing go ok on production-branch?
<lifeless> 10:48 < dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: Cherry pick patch-2416 into production (patch-5: stuart.bishop@canonical.com, 
<lifeless>                rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<sabdfl> i don't think that's it
<sabdfl> my code never landed in production
<sabdfl> i asked stub to merge directly from my branch
<sabdfl> it didn't land because of PQM fuckage last night
<sabdfl> stub: please ack?
<stub> mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com/launchpad--cverework--0--patch-26 ?
<sabdfl> stub: yes
<stub> I thought you wanted that in the next production rollout, not cherry picked into current.
<sabdfl> stub: i want that in the rollout for tuesday
<stub> Yes - it will be.
<sabdfl> ok, did it land smoothly?
<sabdfl> lifeless: is PQM landing things again now?
<stub> Production branch hasn't been created yet - I generally do it on Monday in case plans change re: what needs to be rolled out.
<stub> I've got it here in my notes though so it won't be missed
<stub> I'll do it now so you won't fret on your break ;)
<sabdfl> i'm away from this evening, so perhaps its worth confirming it merges cleanly now?
<sabdfl> thanks dude
<sivang> morning all
<sabdfl> hey sivang
<lifeless> sabdfl: yes
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=spiv]  script librarian logging (patch-2419: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0: [trivial]  Prepare production 1.33 for Tuesday rollout (patch-114: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<stub> lifeless: Can you please mirror that production branch
<SteveA> morning
<stub> morning
<SteveA> hm... so i need to tell pqm to merge that UI underlines thing...
<sabdfl> SteveA: i fear your patch will collide with mine
<sabdfl> please drop mpt's bugtask changes
<sabdfl> i've made substantial cleanups to bug-headline-tasks and don't want them overridden
<stub> So I need to cherry pick the underlines off patch into Tuesdays production release too?
<sabdfl> i already did the no-underline thing in the bugtask-headlines work that i did
<SteveA> sabdfl: the patch is in pqm's queue.  http://pqm.ubuntu.com/
<SteveA> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filefkv7L3.html
<SteveA> that is the diff it is trying to apply
<SteveA> i don't think pqm has a "cancel please" command
<SteveA> unless you're rob.
<spiv> SteveA: It does if it's not at the head of the queue yet... temporarily break your mirror by e.g. moving it.
<SteveA> spiv: is that going to break anything else?
<spiv> Not exactly elegant, but effective...
<spiv> Well, just anyone else trying to use the mirror of your archive.
<SteveA> sabdfl: look at http://pqm.ubuntu.com/  is the third thing in the queue from you (launchpad--cverework--0) going to be broken by changes to launchpad.css and bug-headline-tasks.pt ?
<spiv> You could narrow the scope by just breaking that bit of the mirror, I guess, but that's more slightly fiddly and thus slightly more likely that user error will cause real problems :)
<sabdfl> SteveA: yes
<sabdfl> but it will be broken anyway
<sabdfl> i sent a prior merge in and it just came back failure
<sabdfl> though all tests pass here
<spiv> SteveA: Hmm, too late anyway, it's now the head of the queue...
<sabdfl> ah fahhhrk
<sabdfl> we need a new dependency
<sabdfl> how do i do that?
<SteveA> as in, from hoary?
<sabdfl>     import PIL.Image  ImportError: No module named PIL.Image
<spiv> python-imaging?
<SteveA> you need to ask elmo to install python-imaging
<SteveA> for python 2.4
<sabdfl> on which machines?
<SteveA> on all the machines we use
<sabdfl> elmo: ping
<sabdfl> Znarl: ping
<SteveA> so, chinstrap, macquarie (perhaps), gangotri, mawson
<SteveA> dunno about any others
<sabdfl> SteveA: could you kill your merge please?
<sabdfl> i want to land this damn branch of mine
<sabdfl> i've spent an hour on it already this morning, and don't have much time today before leaving
<SteveA> also, it needs to be announced on the list, and docs updating
<stub> chinstrap, gangotri, asuka, macquarie, mawson, possibly macaroni and emperor and the importd boxes depending on if they need to import modules that depend on it. 
<SteveA> sabdfl: i moved my archive to a different name
<sabdfl> SteveA: you're a star. thanks very much.
<SteveA> sabdfl: dunno if it screwed pqm's merge in time though
<spiv> sabdfl: No-one without pqm privs would be able to stop the current merge, unless Steve got lucky and moved it in time.
<sabdfl> lifeless: ping
<sabdfl> ^^
<stub> I've killed it (by killing PostgreSQL, all the tests will fail)
<sabdfl> my kingdome for a revision control system that does a status in less than 8 minutes
<sabdfl> thanks stub
<spiv> Hmm, it was still doing build-config, so SteveA was probably fast enough.
<spiv> s/was/is/
<SteveA> be nice to have some pqm admin controls
<SteveA> like, changing the queue order
<SteveA> cancelling jobs
<sabdfl> or stopping a merge
<spiv> SteveA: I'm sure lifeless would say patches accepted ;)
<SteveA> once bzr gets more "out there" i'm sure there will be improvements forthcoming
<SteveA> schooltool want this stuff
<SteveA> they're frustrated with svn and its conception of branches, which isn't so useful in practice
<SteveA> the whole distributed concept is good when you have teams across continents
<spiv> stub: you can restart postgres, steve's job is done.
<spiv> (presumably failed)
<SteveA> and, they'd like to have tests run pre-commit
<SteveA> yet not hold up development
<SteveA> okay
<spiv> The asynchrony of pqm is interesting... it's both good and bad.
<SteveA> my pqm job has finished
<SteveA> and failed
<SteveA> i'm moving my archive back
<SteveA> postgres should be restarted
<stub> I was going to make sure my merge failed too since I think sabdfls superseeds it
<spiv> Good thing baz gives you a good 5 or so minute window to break things after it starts a job, because of how long the build-config takes ;)
<SteveA> the failure message said that it couldn't merge from my mirror, so i was in time
<sabdfl> aiui we're basically on pause till elmo or Znarl can install python-imaging
<sabdfl> i still have a key to the DC..
<SteveA> sabdfl: you could make it a soft dependency on PIL
<SteveA> what are you using PIL for anyway?  hackergotchi?
<SteveA> graphs?
<sabdfl> SteveA: making sure images meet the size requirements
<sabdfl> Znarl is handling the sysadmin stuff, should be done in a sec
<SteveA> okay.  PIL isn't actually necesarry for that iirc
<SteveA> zope3 has some image sizing code
<SteveA> that just looks at the minimum necessary for the main image types
<sabdfl> SteveA: i'm happy for you to clean that out then
<sabdfl> but right now, i just want it landed so i can start work on other bits
<SteveA> okay, sure.
<sabdfl> well. i got to fix one bug while we wait
<sabdfl> check that it's actually an IMAGE before trying to find its size
<SteveA> tested with a .py file? ;-)
<sabdfl> SteveA: yes, mailnotification.py as it happens ;-)
<sabdfl> fuck. so predictable it must be time for a new girlfriend
<SteveA> dude, breezy is blode and brunette *at the same time*
<sabdfl> she's a brunette with a cold?
<SteveA> wow... just got an email that i'll get my new laptop in the middle of next week
<SteveA> i've been missing a laptop.  although, working only in the office has a certain discipline
<Znarl> sabdfl : Added python-imaging.
<SteveA> Znarl: to which machines?
<sabdfl> Znarl: much obliged, thanks
<Znarl> macquarie, asuka, gangotri, chinstrap and
<sabdfl> confirm chinstrap?
<Znarl> ... and mawson.
<SteveA> stevea@chinstrap:~$ python
<SteveA> Python 2.4.1 (#2, Mar 30 2005, 21:51:10)
<SteveA> [GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-8ubuntu2)]  on linux2
<SteveA> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
<SteveA> >>> import PIL
<SteveA> >>>
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> i'll mail the launchpad list about the new dependency and update the docs.
<sabdfl> thanks stevea
<sabdfl> stub: there's a new cronscript, can be daily
<sabdfl> comes with my landing
<sabdfl> cronscripts/update-cve.py
<stub> I'll turn it on staging and see what happens
<sabdfl> i don't think there's any point in running it more often than daily, i think the db it fetches is a daily update
<lifeless> PIL ?
<SteveA> pithon imaging library
<SteveA> but speled rite
<SteveA> rather than john lydon's band
<lifeless> heh
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.33: Cherry pick patch-2416 into production (patch-1: stuart.bishop@canonical.com, rocketfuel@canonical.com)
<SteveA> niemeyer: hi.  had another case, in schooltool this time, of why that list() calls __len__ and swallows all exceptions thing was bad.  This time, it was a __len__ implementation that used list(self) and so got a max recursion error.
<SteveA> so, major slowdown, and really hard to track down.
<bob2> hah
<niemeyer> SteveA: Hey
<niemeyer> SteveA: Yes, that's really bad indeed :/
<SteveA> at least it's been fixed now
<SteveA> i haven't looked at the C code that fixes it
<SteveA> but from the schooltool report, i'm pretty sure rhettinger made it catch only specific errors like AttributeError and TypeError
<niemeyer> SteveA: 
<niemeyer>                 if (!PyErr_ExceptionMatches(PyExc_TypeError)  &&
<niemeyer>                     !PyErr_ExceptionMatches(PyExc_AttributeError)) {
<niemeyer>                         Py_DECREF(it);
<niemeyer>                         return NULL;
<niemeyer>                 }
<SteveA> great
<SteveA> thanks gustavo
<sabdfl> lifeless: could you get bzr using LP for bugs, specs, support tickets please?
<lifeless> sabdfl: sure thing. I'll ring martin today and ensure one of us will set it up on monday
<sabdfl> lifeless: what's PQM doing baz merge --two-way scott@canonical.com--2005/launchpad--manifest-hints-and-ancestry--0 for?
<lifeless> sabdfl: because I'm doing last nights merge again ?
<sabdfl> do you know that i'm trying to land mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com/launchpad--cverework--1?
<sabdfl> before i can get cracking on the work i owe daniel?
<lifeless> sabdfl: I didn't, sorry.
<sabdfl> ok. could you let me merge drop in please?
<lifeless> sabdfl: I'll reenable pqm for a bit. can you tell me when I'm clear to kill it again
<sabdfl> sure
<lifeless> ok, pqm cron is up again
<sabdfl> pqm web site still giving bad gateway, lifeless
<lifeless> 1 sec
<sabdfl> fixed, thanks
<lifeless> np
<lifeless> ping me when I'm clear, or if you have trouble
<SteveA> sabdfl: just seen the trickery in the TicketTargetView class.  eeewwwww :-)
<lifeless> I need a favico.ico for pqm
<Keybuk> sw
<Keybuk> lifeless: 
<lifeless> got that as an ico ?
<Keybuk> or is it  ?  can never remember which way it goes
<sabdfl> SteveA: i have a note to discuss it in UBZ
<SteveA> yeah.  i added some notes to the note on my branch.
<sabdfl> we need a general approach to "I want a page with a specific set of criteria against a general list"
<sabdfl> at least all the hackery is in one place
<SteveA> the standard way to do this in zope3 today is to use a base class TicketTargetView, and some tiny subclasses, each implementing self.getTickets() separately.
<SteveA> then register in zcml the appropriate subclass.
<sabdfl> that would work too
<SteveA> another approach would be to have a way of giving "advice" of some sort from zcml
<sabdfl> too limiting
<stub> I've got a ruber ducky going cheap
<stub> rubber even
<SteveA> so you'd say <page .... subsetoftickets="created_tickets" />
<sabdfl> you've no sooner implemented all the "advice" zcml, when you need to do something totally different
<SteveA> and the view class can read that
<sabdfl> i prefer the subclasses
<SteveA> it is more pythonic, to be sure
<SteveA> to use subclasses
<sabdfl> actually, i prefer to have it all in one view class, but we can discuss it at UBZ
<SteveA> sure
<sabdfl> i don't think looking at the URL is evil
<sabdfl> it's just looking at the request, right?
<SteveA> well... i've added some notes about looking at the request in a more robust way
<sabdfl> the current implementation is simplistic, but i think we can improve that
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> how... long... must... i... wait... for.... the.... failure.... message....
<SteveA> but the issue is, if i want to rename a page from say +createdtickets to +ticketscreated
<SteveA> i need to do it in two places -- the zcml and the view class
<SteveA> whereas, i should be able to do it just in zcml
<sabdfl> disagree
<SteveA> you disagree that i need to do it in two places?
<SteveA> or that i should be able to do it in just zcml?
<sabdfl> if you want to rename a field (statusexplanation -> whiteboard) you have to do it in 4 places
<SteveA> i don't see that fields are the same as pages.  in general, needing to rename things in N-1 places is better than needing to rename it in N places
<SteveA> with one being the absolutely best case
<SteveA> also, all other pages in the system can be renamed just in zcml.
<SteveA> in zope 3 in the future, you won't list templates in zcml.  they will be included in the view classes anyway.
<SteveA> so at that point, you can have one view class
<bob2> formlib!
<SteveA> with 4 (or however many) methods
<SteveA> one for each of the variants of the pages -- as the entry point
<SteveA> actually, that would work now also, although be a bit less elegant
<SteveA> but it would avoid the "programming complexity" and spready-out-ness of subclasses
<SteveA> and achieve the goals of having one view class, an obvious flow of control, and needing to change the page name only in zcml.
<sabdfl> i think you could fake this now
<sabdfl> if you put a hook in the template
<sabdfl> that runs a view method at the beginning of the page
<sabdfl> and sets up the iterators appropriately
<sabdfl> we need this stuff for:
<sabdfl>  - lists of bugs (open, closed, search criteria, show rejected, other options)
<sabdfl>  - lists of specs and tickets and branches
<sabdfl> lots of places
* Kinnison returns having fl-cow'd his desktop
<sabdfl> so we need to develop a pattern, and re-use it
<SteveA> can you point me at another view class that needs this stuff?  it will help me see the pattern
<SteveA> this hook you speak of is something i'm on the hook to do for upstream zope3 sometime.  haven't got around to it yet.  it also fixes the "don't do stuff in __init__" issues.
<SteveA> in fact, i wrote in the comment:
<SteveA>             #   Either wait for the Zope 3 improvement I'm on the hook to
<SteveA>             #   land that makes templates called "template" in view classes,
<SteveA>             #   or include it manually like Zope 3 will do in the future.
<SteveA>             #   Then, have different methods as entry-points for the different
<SteveA>             #   pages.
<SteveA>             #     self.createdtickets()
<SteveA>             #     self.assignedtickets()
<SteveA>             #     self.answeredtickets()
<SteveA>             #     self.subscribedtickets()
<SteveA>             #     self.tickets()  # everything else.
<SteveA>             #   Hook these up in zcml.
<SteveA>             #   using the class and attribute style of registing pages.
<sabdfl> SteveA: the bug search stuff is a bit of a mess, so don't look there for inspiration
<SteveA> okay.
<sabdfl> but imagine all the places where you want to slice a set of data up 20 different ways
<SteveA> yeah
<SteveA> okay.  i'll leave the comment there for now, and mull it over the weekend
<sabdfl> SteveA: i have often used 1 view class with different templates, so don't make the binding at a view class level please
<SteveA> there's nothing in this that would stop that from working
<SteveA> the upstream change is that when you have 'template="..."' in zcml, the template ends up in a standard attribute name 'template'
<SteveA> you can use one view class with many template="..." directives, because a new class is generated for each use.
<SteveA> it has to be that way to work currently.
<SteveA> one of the reasons to deprecate template="..." in zcml, and make the standard way to do things to explicitly name templates in the view classes
<SteveA> is to get rid of the "let's generate classes" stuff
<SteveA> beacuse it makes the system more obscure if zcml is going around generating classes for you
<sabdfl> ah. +1 on that front, then
<SteveA> i mean, it's cute... but in a "i want a rifle for bambi" way
<sabdfl> srichter?
<SteveA> nah, this was in zope3 from the very earliest time
<SteveA> the motivation at the very start was to make it the minimum lines of code to write a page template, and some in-python-code logic to help it do its job 
<SteveA> because many people wanted the same power as having islands of python code in page templates
<SteveA> but others wanted the python code to be testable, and to look like regular python code
<SteveA> out of that came the view class + template idiom
<SteveA> and the desire to avoid the boilerplate that is so common in zope 2
<SteveA> so, generating classes was one way to avoid the boilerplate of using python code to explicitly include a page template, and to avoid the need to say def __init__(self, context, request): self.context = context; self.request = request
<SteveA> it achieved the goal of avoiding boilerplate and making it easy to add bits of python code to templates, but at the cost of making the whole "views" system obscure when it didn't need to be so.
<SteveA> now it is time to undo that, and make things less magical.
* SteveA concludes today's zope3 history lesson
<sabdfl> so, will the boilerplate become required?
<SteveA> you'll need to provide an __init__ for your view classes, or subclass something that provides a suitable __init__
<SteveA> so, in launchpad, we'd end up subclassing LaunchpadView all the time, i expect
<SteveA> which is nice and self-documenting anyway
<SteveA> class TicketTrackerView(LaunchpadView):
<SteveA>  ...
<SteveA> so, no particular boilerplate
<SteveA> but still understandable -- you look up what LaunchpadView is if you want to see its __init__
<SteveA> rather than have to look in the dark corners of zcml implementation
<SteveA> stub: did you ever track down the issues with sending mail async in production?
<stub> I have not looked - it may well work if I turn it back on.
<SteveA> did it fail on staging also?
<SteveA> it would be nice to be able to test it on staging first.
<stub> Staging doesn't send email yet, so that needs to be sorted first
<SteveA> i think sending it all to some list would be nice
<SteveA> then people can look at the list to see what staging is sending out
<Kinnison> If anyone here wants me to retain the contents of the dogfood database (soyuz tables in particular) speak now, or forever hold your peace
<Keybuk> one hopes people will be holding their piece in private
<Kinnison> wude.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=jamesh]  rework cve structure, and general polish (patch-2420: mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com, bjorn.tillenius@canonical.com)
<bob2> filthmongers!
<Kinnison> gah, talk about confusion
<Kinnison> I got an arch-pqm success message from *MY* pqm, sat next to a change-to-rocketfuel tla mail-revisions mail
<Kinnison> my brain froze for about 10 seconds due to the cognitive dissonance
<ddaa> SteveA: okay, I'm looking at the pybaz problem right now.
<SteveA> thanks ddaa 
<SteveA> stub: when you update the request type in servers.py, you also need to update it in canonical/functional.py
<sabdfl> lifeless: k, i'm done. phew. thanks
<stub> There a mock request in there or something? ok.
<sabdfl> jamesh: please grill me about those extra review points (schemas vs interfaces) in UBZ, ok?
<sabdfl> stub: did that branch land ok on your production branch, too?
<lifeless> sabdfl: thanks
<lifeless> pqm -> down
<stub> its in pqm. If it doesn't land, is it ok to cherry pick that one instead?
<lifeless> stub: your merge will complete
<lifeless> then I'm locking the queue to fight this hct patch
<sabdfl> stub: 2420? yes. though it might include a little more rocketfuel than the previous one. there's one little extra fix too, but not critical
<stub> ok.
<SteveA> sabdfl: when do you leave today?  bjorn's working on a ticket tracker email interface braindump for you to look at? 
<SteveA> stub: actually, i see you changed servers.py already.
<SteveA> stub: i'll update functional.py because i'm making an improvement there anyway.
<sabdfl> SteveA: 6pm uk time
<SteveA> stub: ... or did you.  i'm getting confused between Publication and Requests :-/
<SteveA> thanks sabdfl 
* SteveA improves pagetest error output to get rid of HTML guff and present a nice traceback.
<lifeless> yay
<SteveA> lifeless: if i have some changes i've made but not committed on the wrong branch, can i baz switch, baz branch, baz commit?
<lifeless> yes
<SteveA> great
<lifeless> stu	ping
<lifeless> doh
<lifeless> I wanted stub
* Kinnison lunches
<lifeless> spiv: meet niemeyer 
<lifeless> niemeyer: meet spiv
<niemeyer> :)
<niemeyer> spiv: Hello :)
<lifeless> spiv: niemeyer might like to learn some more about twisted, to get a feel for what writing good twisted code is like
<niemeyer> "good twisted code" 8)
<spiv> How to freeze Python in a futex beyond the reach of Ctrl-C in one easy step: python -c "from threading import Event; Event().wait()"
<bob2> I guess I have only myself to blame for that terminal being fucked now
<spiv> niemeyer: G'day
<SteveA> spiv: normal kill killed it
<Keybuk> bob2: How to freeze your system by making it do lots of disk I/O: sudo rm -rf /
<lifeless> ...
<bob2> Keybuk: monkey boy.
<Keybuk> bob2: get a haircut.
<spiv> SteveA: Yeah, so does Ctrl-\  (SIGQUIT).
<spiv> Still surprised me.
<Keybuk> Kinnison: found another amusing point where my Cymraeg slips out for you ... I pronounce the C type "char" with a hard ch, and not a soft one
<BjornT> sabdfl: could you have a quick look at https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/TicketTrackerEmailInterface
<BjornT> sabdfl: i will improve it later after lunch
* BjornT -> lunch
<sabdfl> BjornT: i'll make some tweaks while you are out
<mpt> agh, I thought I'd be smart and leave baz merge running overnight
<mpt> but it ran out of memory
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> :-)
<mpt> Serves me right for having only 1 GB
<ddaa> mpt: I have only 1GB too
<ddaa> and baz never runs out of mem here...
<ddaa> but tend to use --star-merge...
<kiko> ddaa, but you have swap
<ddaa> Oh yes
<kiko> and mpt in particular uses gnome with two browsers, gaim, etc
<kiko> so there's only about 600-700mb for baz
<ddaa> 953MB of swap
<ddaa> and I'm using gnome, with firefox, evolution, gaim, emacs, etc.
<ddaa> I'm not sure exactly what is the root cause of the problem, but I found that when resident usage gets too high, I can free much ram by switching with R&R to 800x600 then back to 1600x1200
<ddaa> quitting evolution and firefox from time to time (about once a week) also helps.
<sabdfl> BjornT: comments submitted
<mpt> ddaa: Does /products/foo/+branches show branches for any products yet? (it seems to be empty on the ones I try, though I don't know if that's just because the products aren't using it)
<mpt> oh, nm, the file does nothing
<ddaa> not yet, the work we did on that during the sprint is blocked by a couple of big-urgent-really-I-mean-urgent tasks.
<mpt> ok
<ddaa> that is, samba import and fixing importd so the BranchDataStorage db schema changes won't break RCS imports.
<Lathiat> Just wanted to stop by and say that malone is looking pretty rocking :)
<Kinnison> Keybuk: aye, I know you do. We argued back and forth about the pronounciation of 'char' a few weeks ago IIRC at the BBQ
<bradb> Lathiat: glad to hear. feedback is always welcome.
<Lathiat> its quite nice having things like cve references, separate tracking for hoary+breezy in the same bug etc
<mpt> Kinnison: Depends whether you're talking about characters or about the BBQ :-)
<Kinnison> mpt: I always pronounce it with a soft ch
<kiko> Lathiat, thanks, we appreciate the feedback -- hard work it is
<Lathiat> im sure :) 
<Lathiat> 1 question, can i bring up a more advanced bug search page?
<Lathiat> e.g. new and assigned to MOTU
<mpt> Lathiat: No, but if you go to https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs and click the "Status" column header twice, all the New bugs will be listed first
<Lathiat> mpt: ok, will that be added in future?
<bradb> Lathiat: fwiw, novemberish is when we'll be diving into making searching in Malone rock.
<Lathiat> bradb: ok cool
<kiko> Lathiat, you can click on the (Advanced) button, does that help?
<Keybuk> Kinnison: ah, it was you I was arguing with then :p
<Lathiat> hmm, when sorting by "severity" it should probably sort by severity type rather than alphabetically :)
<bradb> Lathiat: i'll file a bug on that, thanks
<Lathiat> bradb: cool
<bradb> Lathiat: filed #2347 and subscribed you as well
<Lathiat> br	cheers
<Lathiat> bradb: 
<mpt> kiko, what's the shipit admin page url?
<kiko> mpt, it's only available to shipit admins
<kiko> what should I do?
<mpt> I mean, on localhost :-)
<mpt> oh, I don't know who's the admin in the sampledata anyway
<mpt> oh yes I do
<mpt> Ok, I'll shut up now
<ctrlsoft> hi
<ctrlsoft> Anyway to merge two user accounts?
<Kinnison> lifeless: any word on the HCT branches? Have you locked PQM or is it all still running?
<lifeless> Kinnison: pqm is still getting its knickers cleaned
<Kinnison> mmm laundry day
<kiko> mpt :)
<SteveA> hi mpt 
<bradb> no pqm still eh? hrmph.
<Lathiat> pqm?
<SteveA> Lathiat: just a sec, i'll get you a description
<SteveA> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2005-August/055376.html
<SteveA> it's a bit long, but explains about pqm
<Lathiat> thanks
<bradb> Lathiat: you don't wanna know :)
<kiko> good man bradb 
<zyga> hello
<Lathiat> SteveA: good read, thanks
<ddaa> lifeless: [samba]  just put up something that I think might actually be correct. Would you have the time to review it today?
<ddaa> (not tested yet, though)
<lifeless> ddaa: sure. is there a diff yet ?
<ddaa> I'll send you the branch name as soon as it's gone through the test suite and committed.
<mpt> hi SteveA
<lifeless> ddaa: would like a diff please
<ddaa> ok
<mdke> jordi, around?
<ddaa> lifeless: diff in the pipe
<bradb> BjornT: hi. any news on the URL changes review?
<Kinnison> Okay, since noone has complained, I'm going to blat at the dogfood DB for a while. dogfood will be offline for the duration.
<elmo> stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuub
* Kinnison tickles elmo
* Keybuk wonders whether it's time for an IRC client plugin that recognises your nickname with repeated letters
<BjornT> bradb: well, i've come a long way,  but i postponed it temporarily, since i wanted to create a braindump of the ticket tracker email system for mark to look at
<BjornT> bradb: it's not impossible that i still finish the review today, though
<bradb> BjornT: ok, I understand that it's a big review, and not the easiest one to do at that. good to hear that it's coming along. thanks.
<kiko> Keybuk, it wouldn't help in this case, though.
<Lathiat> if i want to mark something as rejected in warty,hoary and leave it as new in breezy, would i first "request a fix in a distro" so that item is created and then change its status?
<Kinnison> elmo: When does mawson's copy of the archive get updated?
<elmo> 4am
<kiko> Lathiat, right.
<Kinnison> elmo: is that when it starts, or when it finishes?
<elmo> starts
<bradb> Lathiat: are there already warty and hoary tasks?
<Kinnison> elmo: cool, so 6am will do for starting the import from it
<Kinnison> thanks
<elmo> Kinnison: easily eyah
<Kinnison> coolio.
* Kinnison hammers mawson. (s'not hard)
<bradb> Lathiat: or, in human terms, i should have ask that as "is the bug already reported in warty and hoary?"
<lifeless> please merge, kthnxbye
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=bjornt merge support for hints and ancestry of manifests. (patch-2421: scott@canonical.com)
<Kinnison> lifeless: I.E. you're ready for PQM to be used again?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/hct--devel--1: magic marker upgrade from scotts hct branch (patch-20: scott@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/sourcerer--devel--0: magic marker upgrade from scotts sourcerer branch (patch-30: scott@canonical.com)
<Lathiat> hrm i cant see a disctinction between distro versions 
<Lathiat> yet i see it on lots on bugs
<bradb> Lathiat: URL?
<Lathiat> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2057
<bradb> Lathiat: so, does bug #2057 appear to you to be filed in warty and hoary?
<Lathiat> bradb: just "Ubuntu", i want to split out the status to say rejected for warty and hoary, but leave breezy as new
<Lathiat> how would i do that?
<Lathiat> (is that a sane thing to do?)
<bradb> Lathiat: ok, so, you want to target the fix to those releases and then reject the tasks
<Lathiat> ohh i see 
* mpt doesn't see how to ask for it to be fixed in a distro release in the first place
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs/2057/+target
<bradb> mpt: If i were allowed to make the actions menu useful, you sure would.
<kiko> mpt, you can't (at least currently)
<Lathiat> mpt: "Request fix: ... in distribution"
<mpt> Lathiat: That's what I thought too
<Lathiat> and then theres "target release"
<mpt> ah, "Target Fix to Releases"
<bradb> mpt: I'd put that on the bug page, so you'd have noticed it, but I'm not allowed to do that.
<bradb> Same with Edit Assignee/Status Details
<bradb> At the moment, assigning a bug is not only hard to discover, it's practically an easter egg.
<BjornT> lifeless: can you please add a malone section to the production config? (just copy the section from the default config)
<lifeless> BjornT: ?
<ddaa> rubber duck egg
<mpt> bradb: bah, who needs to assign bugs anyway :-)
<bradb> BjornT: There already is a malone config section, no?
<BjornT> lifeless: sorry, by config i mean launchpad.conf file
<bradb> BjornT: At least, it's being used by the bugmail error sending code
<BjornT> bradb: doesn't seem like it
<BjornT>     return config.malone.bugmail_error_from_address
<BjornT> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'bugmail_error_from_address'
<bradb> BjornT: ah, ok, i thought that's what might have tipped you off to asking for it to be added to the config file :)
<bradb> Lathiat: btw, you might not actually need to target-then-reject
<Lathiat> bradb: oh?
<bradb> Lathiat: by default, an "Ubuntu" bug means that it should be "fixed in the current (development) release". to signal a backport fix request, you use the "Target Fix to Releases" page
<Lathiat> bradb: oh ok
<bradb> we'll have to think a bit about how to make clearer what a bug filed on "Ubuntu acroread" actually means, perhaps
<Lathiat> bradb: altho in this case, the reporter mentioned it was vulnerable in all three
<Lathiat> bradb: (but didnt manually click the other two
<Lathiat> bradb: also having breezy + "ubuntu" is confusing
<Lathiat> and also annoying
<Lathiat> however thats not the easiest thing in the world to "transition" when we release, yo udont really want to just mark all bugs as "breezy" at release 
<bradb> Lathiat: do you mean that it's confusing to have the bug reported on both "Ubuntu" and on "Ubuntu Breezy"?
<Lathiat> bradb: well that too
* kiko gets spammed 
<lifeless> BjornT: done
<bradb> Lathiat: i agree, it's confusing
<lifeless> I think there is a general issue.
<bradb> Lathiat: what did you mean by 'also having breezy + "ubuntu" is confusing', exactly?
<BjornT> lifeless: thanks
<lifeless> when we have sane defaults, why do we not have a default value if they are not present ?
<lifeless> we've had this sort of fuckage before
<Keybuk> . o O { why are Bugs on Product and not ProductSeries }
<Lathiat> bradb: i meant by that exactly what you just said
<kiko> Keybuk, they will be. mpt, why are you waiting to land deactionizing?
<kiko> Keybuk, they will be targettable to series, actually.
<kiko> lifeless?
<kiko> ah, right
<bradb> Keybuk: from the backend implementation details, that's an easy one to explain. from a UI perspective, the difference between product vs. product series reports is communicated poorly, it would seem
<kiko> thanks BjornT, I was getting spammed like crazy.
<mpt> kiko: I've been trying to land it for the past half hour, I'm not waiting :-)
<kiko> wow
<bradb> Lathiat: ok
<Keybuk> bradb: yes, it would be a first for Malone to be really confusing ui wouldn't it O:-)
* Lathiat grins at Keybuk 
<Lathiat> im impressed how well its doing now, some of the stuff is rather difficult to expose
<BjornT> lifeless: would that have helped, though? the value was required, but since the section didn't exist, there was no error. no section, no default value. the malone section could get merged into the launchpad one, though.
<Keybuk> WHY CAN'T I FIX THE BUG FROM THE SCREEN WITH ALL THE COMMENTS ON IT, AND WHY CAN'T I VIEW OTHER BUGS IN THE SAME THING FROM THE SAME SCREEN. GNARGH!
<bradb> Keybuk: Malone's UI is confusing, but improving.
<mpt> Keybuk: +1
<lifeless> BjornT: having a default and making the rest optional would definately fix it
<bradb> Keybuk: I added a link to allow you do the latter in my URL changes branch (currently being reviewed by bjornt), and haven't yet removed it, but I think sabdfl may want me to, when he sees it.
<Keybuk> right now the work flow looks like:
<bradb> Keybuk: I also added a link to the bug page to at least make it easy to get to the *screen* where you can "Fix" the bug, but sabdfl told me to get rid of that too, so I did.
<test> @find pdf
<Keybuk> 1) find bug, 2) read bug, 3) hunt randomly and scream until some helpful person points at the "upstream <product>" link which oh-so-unobviously takes you to the right screen, 4) fix the bug, 5) go back to the task page, 6) add a comment, 7) go back to the bug page, 8) click "other bugs in <product>"
<BjornT> lifeless: but in this case a default value wouldn't have helped, since the section didn't exist. i wonder if it's possible to make a section required...
<bradb> Keybuk: we want what you want, dude. "upstream <product>" is, practically speaking, *impossible* to figure out to be the place where one goes to fix the bug.
<lifeless> BjornT: garh. MAKE THE SECTION OPTIONAL.
<bradb> Keybuk: people hate this. people repeatedly complain about it. people should complain about it. i fixed the problem. i had to unfix it yesterday. :/
<kiko> Keybuk, like a broken arm, you get used to it after six months
<mpt> Keybuk: step (3) didn't used to be necessary, but that was reversed a few months ago too
<BjornT> lifeless: if you tell me how to do it in the config system, sure.
<lifeless> BjornT: I wasn't saying *you* should do it, rather that *we* have a general issue
<BjornT> lifeless: ah, that is true :)
<kiko> lifeless, BjornT: the other option is making a mandatory test that validates the config file...
<lifeless> kiko: wouldn't help
<bradb> fwiw, i added that config option to malone
<kiko> lifeless? how now?
<bradb> i expected that adding a new config option would Just Work
<lifeless> kiko: unless you meanaas a startup-of-launchpad thing
<Keybuk> kiko: no, you don't
<lifeless> kiko: tests are not run on the production *servers*
<Keybuk> kiko: people don't hang around 6 months to get used to a bug tracking system
<Keybuk> they take 15 seconds to install bugzilla, which they know
<lifeless> bradb: you *HAVE* to tell stub and I about new config entries.
<Kinnison> 19697 postgres  25   0  110m  97m  86m R 98.5  2.7  11:40.43 postmaster
<Kinnison> yay for postgres
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/pybaz--devel--0: [trivial]  disable OrderedTestLoader (patch-40: ddaa@ddaa.net)
<kiko> lifeless, perhaps an email to launchpad and a poke in the eye to reviewers?
<kiko> sladen, https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2249
<BjornT> kiko: there is some validation done when the config is parsed, but it seems that no sections are required, so it doesn't complain if one section is missing
<kiko> right
<kiko> that's what I meant
<bradb> lifeless: right, sorry, i will next time i make a change
<BjornT> there should be some way of making it required
<kiko> yeah, agreed -- the instance should bomb out if missing
<lifeless> kiko: either vaidation during startup or an email to lp + a poke to stub and I
<kiko> lifeless, I meant poking launchpad to say "If you add config sections, tell me or kiko will kill you" and then poking reviewers to watch out for it
<lifeless> kiko: heh
<mpt> Keybuk: BoF it for UBZ
<Keybuk> mpt: no, I want to live
* cprov is looking for the gun, suicide makes  lot of sense 
<cprov> ********************************************************
<cprov> *  51 conflicted items in this tree. Please            *
<cprov> * resolve each conflict with "baz resolved 'filename'" *
<cprov> ********************************************************
<bradb> cprov: those can't be all real (...can they?)
* ddaa think people should do something about their workflow
<cprov> bradb: even if they are duplicated code, no way to recover the tree, will try with --star-merge 
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/cscvs--devel--1.0: [trivial]  remove uses of pybaz OrderedTestLoader (patch-110: david.allouche@canonical.com)
<ddaa> I think experience shows that mesh-merge does not work satisfactorily, it's really worth the trouble to try avoiding situation that cannot be handled with star-merge and diff3...
<bradb> I always use --star-merge these days.
<ddaa> I mean something a bit different: avoiding workflow and merge topologies that cannot be handled with star-merge.
<cprov> bradb: yeah, i suspect this is the problem, once you rely on --star-merge you can't go back to simple merge 
<ddaa> cprov?
<cprov> ddaa: sorry ?
<Kinnison> cprov: If you're having problems even with star-merge, let me know and I'll have a look
<ddaa> You seem to imply that star-merge supercedes mesh-merge, but it's (supposedly) the other way around.
<ddaa> star-merge is more limited (and more predictible) and forces you to be more disciplined, which does not prevent using mesh-merge.
<cprov> Kinnison: not really star-merge works, but still resulting in wierd failures on merge
<Kinnison> Never use mesh merge with launchpad
<Kinnison> it's too risky
<ddaa> cprov: yup, but when you know the limitation it's often possible to avoid them.
<BjornT> lifeless: btw. you don't happen to know where i can find a version of libgetopt++, that can be used to compile config-manager with?
<Kinnison> (IME)
* cprov needs to go, the tree is recovered, soon I'll try PQM again
<lifeless> BjornT: apt-get source config-manager
<lifeless> BjornT: or from my barch archive
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<mpt> SteveA: pong
<sabdfl> Kinnison: ping
<SteveA> mpt: i want a  div traceback  style to use that puts the text in a smallish monospaced font, and makes the block of traceback distinct from the rest of a standard launchpad page
<SteveA> this is to improve the debug views on errors
<sabdfl> SteveA: class="highlight" or class="highlighted" will give you boxed, slightly coloured background
<sabdfl> you could add the font style, and size, directly
<mpt> SteveA: Does it have its own <div>s?
<SteveA> yes, it is in a <div class="traceback">
<mpt> SteveA: I mean for individual lines
<SteveA> i can alter the class etc.
<mpt> or is it expecting a <pre>
<SteveA> oh, it's got a <ul> with a <li> for each line
<BjornT> lifeless: thanks, compiled fine now
<SteveA> all inside a <p>
<sabdfl> BjornT: see those comments?
<SteveA> so, <div class="traceback"><p>some text here <ul><li>line1</li><li>line2</li></ul>more text</p></div>
<mpt> SteveA: You're allowed <p> inside <li>, but you're not allowed <ul> inside <p> (yet)
<sabdfl> main thing is the closing procedure (not just a simple set-to-closed), and then that i don't think we should allow opening tickets by mail yet, or that we should have a better system than "affects /foo/bar" if we do
<SteveA> mpt: i don't have control over that part of the rendering
<mpt> SteveA: ok, so if this isn't going to be used anywhere else, <div class="highlight" style="font-family: monospace; font-size: smaller;">
<SteveA> end users will never see this.  this is for developers
<SteveA> ok
<BjornT> sabdfl: yes. i'll adjust how the status command should work, and will remove creation of tickets. i agree that it's probably not worth creating new tickets via email.
<Lathiat> another thing thats a little confusing is that the tabs in the top right stay the same but they change meaning through different contexts, a good idea in theory but it can be a little confusing and not easy way to get back to the main "bugs" page or whatever
<SteveA> mpt: ah -- class="highlighted"
<BjornT> sabdfl: i played around using only the person who created the ticket, so i didn't notice the answered state. i'll make sure that the email system will have the same semantics as the web ui
<bradb> Lathiat: Can you give an example of what the unexpected behaviour was that you experienced, WRT the tabs?
<bradb> I think I know what you're referring to, but I want to be sure.
<mpt> SteveA: right, sorry (I haven't used that yet myself)
<Lathiat> bradb: so i goto launchpad.net
<Lathiat> bradb: and i click bugs, and see things about bugs
<Lathiat> bradb: i then login, and i click on my name and look at my profile
<Lathiat> bradb: i think hit bugs, which looks exactly the same
<Lathiat> bradb: and it takes me to my personal bugs page instead
<Lathiat> and the only way to get back is the breadcrumb in the top left
<Lathiat> nifty, but a little confusing
<Lathiat> they should at least change colour or something to indicate they are in a different context, and perhaps a button next to the tabs which takes you back up to the top level rather than just the link up in the top left
<mpt> Lathiat: yes, we don't do a good job of showing that "the tabs belong to this thing" at the moment
<ddaa> lifeless: can you review the patch?
* Lathiat nods at mpt
<mpt> Lathiat: It used to be better, but not *much* better
<ddaa> it seems to be working well with ubuntu-doc, but it's going so slowly that I do not expect that test to complete before I have to leave.
<bradb> mpt: Is there currently a plan for what to do about that? (i.e. how to show to what thing the tabs belong?)
<mpt> Lathiat: The hierarchy should be better explained when https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadHierarchyNavigation, and changing color is part of https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadBranding
<bradb> heh
<mpt> when https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/LaunchpadHierarchyNavigation is implemented, I mean
<Lathiat> also 
<Lathiat> for new packages going into breezy
<Lathiat> how do i get them into launchpad
<Lathiat> (in my case im upstream, so im interested in a component, and having them assigned to me)
<mpt> Lathiat: That should happen automatically, but currently isn't afaik
<mpt> anyway, time for me to go to class
<Lathiat> "There are currently 1024 products registered in launchpad"
* Lathiat wonders if thats a real number
<mpt> yes, it's counted from the database
<mpt> I implemented that :-)
<Kinnison> sabdfl: pong
<Kinnison> sabdfl: sorry, was helping cut laminate flooring
<bradb> sabdfl: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2353 -- the Specifications tab raises a 404 off the main page.
<sabdfl> Kinnison: i'm afraid i'm going to fail to deliver this soyuz rework this evening
<sabdfl> it will be done by the time i get back from SA, but that's 2+ weeks from now
<sabdfl> i think it only really affects the web UI at this point
<Kinnison> sabdfl: right
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Don't sweat it too much
<sabdfl> bradb: please fix it, i'm packing
<bradb> sabdfl: ok
<SteveA> bradb: that's supposed to be fixed in production, and in RF
<bradb> It's not fixed in production, at least
<SteveA> bradb: i'll sort out the spec tab problem -- it's a zcml registration / menus system problem
<bradb> ok
<SteveA> then the fix was lost
<SteveA> it was fixed there before the last update
<sabdfl> bradb: it's fixed in staging
* bradb reassigns the bug to SteveA 
<SteveA> okay, i'll sort it with stu
<sabdfl> Kinnison: anyhow, i;m sorry
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Just make sure you don't guilt yourself into doing it instead of relaxing on your holiday
<SteveA> bradb: what is /malone/bugs/ supposed to do?
<sabdfl> Kinnison: ask no questions, i'll tell ya no lies...
<SteveA> bradb: is it supposed to redirect to /malone ?
<SteveA> what's another user that works in the sample data other than foo.bar@canonical.com ?
* SteveA sees in sampledata
* Lathiat -> sleep
<bradb> SteveA: redirect, yeah
<SteveA> bradb: thanks.  i was just debugging a problem with infinite redirect recursion on logging out, and was confused by the additional redirect
<sabdfl> SteveA: see pagetests/README.txt near the bttom
<bradb> SteveA: I'm going to make IBug.id, IBug.private and IBugTask.id always publicly accessible today, btw.
<bradb> SteveA: oh, and IBugTask.bug, perhaps?
<SteveA> sabdfl: thanks.  i actually wanted to log in interactively, but found a bunch of users clearly marked in the sampledata
<SteveA> bradb: the 'id' attributes, sure.  'private', sure, because it makes sense to be able to check if it is private without raising an error
<SteveA> IBugTask.bug, sure, because you should always be able to go to a less-specific thing, and get that thing's id
<bradb> and be able to do IBugTask.bug.private, etc.
<SteveA> now, this is very odd
<SteveA> the code for production on gangotri actually has the correct link on the front page for the specs facet
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  hide dups from the assigned bugs report; improve the wording and pagetest (patch-2422: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
<SteveA> lifeless: got a sec?
<lifeless> shoot
<SteveA> lifeless: so, there's a problem in production.  that is, on the front page, the link on the specs facet goes to '+specs' not 'specs'
<SteveA> i have looked on gangotri at the code that ought to be responsible for this.  it is correct, and the link is to 'specs'.  i asked stu to change this code a few days ago, and he did.
<SteveA> so, either, i'm totally wrong about what code to change, or launchpad on production has not been restarted since stu made the change.
<lifeless> its been restarted
<lifeless> twice today
<SteveA> okay
<SteveA> it is under revision control.  i'll get the tree, and check it out locally
<SteveA> ta
<lifeless> ddlooks like it might work
<lifeless> bah, hes gone
<jordi> mdke: here
<SteveA> haha, you can tell what pagetests stu wrote
<SteveA>   ... Accept-Language: en-au,en-gb;q=0.7,en;q=0.3
<sabdfl> cheers guys
<sabdfl> lifeless: great work this sprint
<sabdfl> thanks
<sabdfl> niemeyer: you're off to an excellent start
<Kinnison> 19697 postgres  25   0  110m  97m  86m R 99.9  2.7 121:18.99 postmaster
<Kinnison> FFS
<Kinnison> two hours it has been deleting rows
<Kinnison> two sodding hours
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=kiko for most, trivial for the rest]  Major cleanup of portlets, minor cleanup of Codes of Conduct and ShipIt; fixes bug 1968 and bug 2103 (patch-2423: mpt@canonical.com)
<kiko> finally
* cprov cries, his patch still missing
<mdke> jordi, we have a string called "translator-credits" that should be completed automatically, rosetta doesn't do it (known bug), do you have any advice to work around it?
<jordi> mdke: completed automatically how?
<mdke> jordi, by inserting the names and emails of the translators who worked on the po
<mdke> jordi, bug 116
<jordi> oh, right
<jordi> no, other than filling it by hand, no other ideas.
<mdke> k
<mdke> jordi, the other was, some translators have been complaining about having to translate the licences which are in our template because of the use of -e. I mailed danilo asking if there is any way he knows of to exclude such entities but had no response yet, you know anything?
<jordi> nope. You could leave the translation out.
<jordi> xml2po could easily grow an --exclude option.
<mdke> yeah that would be cool
<bradb> SteveA: Given an interface IFoo, with a large number of attributes, is there a simple way to say "protect IFoo with permission Bar, but allow attributes x and y to be publically accessible"? Or do I have to <allow> x and y, and then name all the remaining attributes i want to protect in the <require> directive?
<SteveA> bradb: no.  it is something i discussed with tres at EP, and have a plan to fix.  but that requires quite a bit of work on the zope component architecture.
<bradb> ok
<SteveA> once the rest of launchpad is well organized, and menus / ui issues are under control
<SteveA> i'll spend some time making the security really rock rather than just get by
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=stevea] . make bug notifictions concerning the same bug be part of the same email thread. (patch-2424: bjorn.tillenius@canonical.com)
<kiko> BjornT, many congratulations
<kiko> rock on
<SteveA> kiko: cc-ed you on mail to stu and rob about a one line change needed in production.
<kiko> doh!
<SteveA> to get the root 'specifications' tab going to the right place
<SteveA> i could do it myself, with ssh, vim and the restart script
<SteveA> but it's kinda rude
<kiko> no tests, tsk tsk.
<SteveA> we need link checking tests for that one
<SteveA> basically, for every page
<SteveA>  - parse out the facet and menu links
<SteveA>  - check they all work
<SteveA> (or just do so for all links)
<kiko> well
<kiko> I did a scrubbing of pages for links
<kiko> and then added them to xx-notfound-traversals
<kiko> manual
<kiko> but effective
<kiko> there are many 404s in production, though
* cprov -> lunch, more 2 conflicts for dessert, back in 30 min
* cprov back
* cprov -> wow, at least my devel branch pass in test, now it goes ;) (after solving the conflicts :()
<Kinnison> 220 minutes of CPU time :-(
* Kinnison hates databases sometimes
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: r=bjornt greatly improved error pages in pagetests and debug port.  introduced new url for a  debug root page.  fixed bug when redirecting for logging out. (patch-2425: steve.alexander@canonical.com)
<cprov> Kinnison: god forbid !
<cprov> Kinnison: it requires, indeed, request PQM twice for that ;)
* Kinnison grins
<Kinnison> 19697 postgres  25   0  110m  97m  86m R 99.9  2.7 226:56.42 postmaster
<Kinnison> see
<Kinnison> yeesh
<Kinnison> ciao all
<cprov> Kinnison: what is that ? the publisher in action ?
* Kinnison heads off
<Kinnison> cprov: No, that's "DELETE FROM Build;"
* Kinnison waves
<cprov> Kinnison: shhhhh, good night
<spiv> Kinnison: file:///usr/share/doc/postgresql-doc-7.4/html/sql-truncate.html
<sivang> hmmm, so I see now that using launchapd integration, if someone use "Get help..." he is acutally offered to opne a support ticket, is this what we really want to have there?
<sivang> I mean, it might be mistaken that way that this is where you report bugs, so I'm thinking we need to also have the report a bug item for lpi in order to distinct the two
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Implement Distribution.getDistroReleaseAndPocket() for Keybuk. r=sabdfl (patch-2426: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<bradb> SteveA: Hm, it looks like I might have to wait until after the URL changes land to fix the ID/privacy thing. It's now causing 404's to be returned on private bugs for unauthorized users because of trying to access the relevant IBugTask through privacy-aware search APIs ("privacy-aware", as in, if you don't have access to view that task, it isn't returned by the search). I can think of ways to fix this, but I haven't thought of anyt
<kiko> sivang, well, we need to consider this rather carefully -- most of the end-users we expect won't know how to use a bugtracker!
<kiko> support tickets can  be linked to bugs
<sivang> kiko: so the general idea is the users use the issue tracker, and devels us the bugtracker?
<sivang> kiko: also, we need to make it easy for a group of users who are subscribed to a specific issues be notified when their underlying bug is fixed, so that they can be protected of the technical deails of the bug, but know when the issue is fixed
<bradb> sivang: I'd be surprised if that wasn't the default behaviour (i.e. subscribe to issue != subscribe to bug.)
<sivang> bradb: ah ok =) Sorry, I may be out of sync with the developments of the issue tracker 
<bradb> sivang: I'm not saying that it actually is/isn't; I haven't looked at it at all really. :) /me takes a peek
<sivang> bradb: I'm really interested in working/helping with the support/issue tracking stuff, I take it that the only missing link currently is the buffer application? (I wonder if you recall I mentioned it to you long before)
<bradb> sivang: I don't know if there's plans for another application in between those two, but I sure hope not. :P
<bradb> sivang: It seems to me that Launchpad itself could glue those two things together sufficiently (without, say, adding YAMT [Yet Another Menu Tab] )
<bradb> Disclaimer: IMHO
<sivang> heh
<sivang> bradb: however, if we don't apply some kind of filtering we will end up with numerous support request that will require much work to sort out, attach to bugs etc
<sivang> I forsee so many "my mouse don't work" etc
<bradb> sivang: What "filtering" are you referring to exactly?
<bradb> e.g. you can relate tickets to various contexts, e.g. distributions or upstreams, which seems like a significant step in filtering to me
<sivang> bradb: this is filtering according to responsibility sources, what about filtering according to different parts of the OS, differnt classes of problems etc
<kiko> jordi?
<bradb> sivang: it appears that you can attach it to a specific sourcepackage as well. i imagine there would be a lot of overlap with the same problems Malone has with that for bugs.
<bradb> which, in both cases, keywords may be able to address (i.e. for arbitrary grouping of tickets or bugs)
<kiko> JORDI!
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=lifeless]  Launchpad Auto Build System User Interface Prototype (buildfarm UI) also minor fixes for buildd infrastructure, still needing mpt love. (patch-2427: celso.providelo@canonical.com, mpt@canonical.com)
<cprov> WOW !!! 
<kiko> YES!
<bradb> kiko: Would you be interested in doing a drive-by review of a fix for #1378? (Ripping out database imports in another module where they shouldn't be.)
<kiko> how big?
<bradb> kiko: diffing now...probably 50-100 lines max
<kiko> sure
<bradb> cool, thanks, just bazzing it now...
<bradb> hm, it appears that limit doesn't work with selectBy. @#*!!%
<kiko> wow, shipit test failures. wonder why.
<bradb> kiko: you've got patchmail
* kiko waits for baz
<mpt> arg
* mpt just typed "launchpad.net/people/mpt/+bugs" and got a 404
<kiko> bradb, fix bug 2361 today
<kiko> mpt, where was the error?
<mpt> kiko: Unimplemented feature
<kiko> blame the bradb
<bradb> mpt: You can find dozens of those types of URLs in LP.
<bradb> s/URLs/404s/
<mpt> bradb: this isn't from a bad link, it's from an overly-consistent (for now) mental model
<mpt> kiko: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneFrontPages
<bradb> mpt: Yes, I know :)
<bradb> another example would be, say, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/mozilla-firefox
<mpt> hey, but I can see https://launchpad.net/people/mpt/+assignedbugs now
<bradb> kiko: Dude, 2361 has been that way for months. Why is it suddenly urgent at 17:30 Friday night? :)
<kiko> because I SAID SO!
<kiko> bradb, it's not so urgent, and it's not night, but if you fix it I will love you
<kiko> bradb, will you get us mountain bikes to ride while I'm in montreal?
<bradb> kiko: sure. how many?
<kiko> one for me?
<kiko> I'll take my pedals shoes and helmet
<kiko> we can go for 6am rides
<bradb> yeah, that could be fun
<kiko> or freezing
<bradb> that too
<kiko> what pedals do you have?
<bradb> Just the ones that came with the bike.
<bradb> i.e. not clipless
<bradb> I've been thinking of getting some though
<kiko> oh
<bradb> yeah, i'm pretty tame atm
<bradb> no pedals == sissy riding
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> johan's been using a spare pair of time atacs I have
<bradb> kiko: so, From: <preferredemail>, Reply-To: <bug address>?
<kiko> correct
<kiko> and the bug address should be
<kiko> bug666@bugs.launchpad.net or bug555@launchpad.net
<kiko> something like that
<bradb> hm
<kiko> I mean, others may correct me, but a lot of spamfilters block all-numbers email
<bradb> kiko: can i merge the patch i just sent you?
<kiko> wait for baz!
<bradb> what's the wait for? i waited for baz so that you don't have to!
<bradb> and, using mutt, you should have enough RAM left to read that email too
<kiko> obviously you've never used baz
<bradb> have so! i'm waiting on it right now.
<bradb> status before switching
<kiko> it's comparing from and to!
<bradb> FROM and TO, you mean?
<kiko> that too
<kiko> --  utilities/lint.sh
<bradb> ahhhehhe
<kiko> bradb, I like the patch. I'm a bit concerned with orderBy, though
<kiko> why am I concerned?
#launchpad 2005-09-22
<bradb> kiko: yeah, don't make me guess :P
<kiko> I don't know, maybe it's because of the orderBy bug we had in BugTaskSet, but it was minimal
<kiko> and unrelated
<kiko> did you make lint?
<kiko> -        result = list(BugTracker.select())
<kiko> +        btset = getUtility(IBugTrackerSet)
<kiko> +        result = list(btset)
<kiko> why not add a select() there too?
<bradb> I could have, yeah.
<kiko> for consistency's sake
<kiko> other than that r=kiko
<bradb> kiko: re: make lint, no I often skip make lint because of two main things: 1. it doesn't work the way I want it to. make lint'ing between every commit just Takes Too Long (on top of all the software that already slows us down) and 2. it doesn't seem to understand interfaces. and a third one: I forget.
<kiko> how can make lint be slow my god
<kiko> it takes like 8s
<kiko> how does it not understand interfaces?
<bradb> make lint'ing between every commit takes longer than 8 secs for me. it also implies that I've actually got to have lint-free code with *every* *local* *commit*. that's a pretty serious burden for me to assume.
<kiko> it's actually good practice
<bradb> kiko: it gives warnings about things that it wouldn't warn about if it understood what interfaces were
<kiko> such as?
<kiko> I've fixed most of these
<bradb> i don't recall, i don't run make lint usually :)
<kiko> so stop strawmanning and RUN IT
<bradb> kiko: seriously, it might sound nice to always local commit lint free code, but in practice, it's pain. pain pain pain.
<kiko> funny 
<bradb> stuart agree
<bradb> s
<kiko> that's not surprising
<kiko> but you are not honestly giving it a shot
<kiko> I'll explain
<kiko> it usually catches programming errors in untested codepaths
<kiko> more than once I've had it surprise me and I said "wow"
<kiko> and unless you don't run baz status before committing (which is good practice)
<kiko> it shouldn't take more than 8s
<kiko> and if it does
<kiko> your next merge will take less Xs where X is T-8s
<bradb> kiko: notice, i didn't complain about how long it takes to run make lint.
<bradb> kiko: i may make local commits whenever i feel like it, e.g.
<kiko> you may, but it's not necessarily a good idea
<bradb> start of the day, i'm working on a somewhat biggish feature, i want to make sure there's no conflicts outstanding that might make my life even worse
<bradb> so, i commit and then --star-merge to sort things out
<kiko> sure
<kiko> make lint there won't hurt
<kiko> and it particularly doesn't hurt before generating a diff for review
<kiko> so when you send me a diff for review
<kiko> make lint beforehand
<bradb> argh. i'm running make lint on the branch you just reviewed right now and i'm WAITING.
<bradb> i know why, baz status, etc. but that doesn't make it any sweeter
<bradb> i know that i haven't forgotten to add any files, etc. on this branch. i'm willing to take the risk of committing without status'ing, in this particular case.
<bradb> kiko: that's why i'd rather see make lint work after commits. that way i'll wait a long time, but at least it's just once, at the end, rather than for every single commit.
<bradb> and, i have to wait for that diff at the end anyway
<bradb> since we both make sure to read a diff before sending for code review, etc.
<bradb> 4m later, Ctrl-C time
<mpt> kiko: It might be worth having make lint run on the files changed from upstream, rather than the files changed from last commit
<mpt> and then bundling it with make check
<kiko> mpt, yeah, stub wants me to do that
<kiko> bradb, baz status takes 4m on your box?
<bradb> kiko: yeah, like a lot of people, baz is unbearably slow for me
<mpt> only 4m!
<bradb> mpt: I Ctrl-C'd :P
<mpt> ah, cheater
<Lathiat> is it possible to get a list of bugs i am subscribed to
<bradb> Lathiat: not yet, but i was about to do something like that last week
<bradb> jbailey had mentioned something similar
<bradb> need to do some thinking about it though
<Lathiat> also https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1696/ shows the same person subscribed twice
<bradb> Lathiat: what were you trying to do right now?
<Lathiat> bradb: well im subscribing to bugs im interested in, woudl be nice to be able to get a list 
<Lathiat> also if someone is assigned a bug, does the implictly make them "subscribed" or not?
<kiko> bradb, just a matter of exposing API to the person's bug page?
<bradb> Lathiat: would that include bugs for which you receive mail, but aren't "explicitly" subscribed to them?
<bradb> Lathiat: reporters are explicitly subscribed
<jbailey> bradb: Of what do you accuse me now?
<bradb> jbailey: just mentioned the "bugs i'm interested in report" again
<Lathiat> bradb: well, it'd be nice to have a list of all bugs im related too
<Lathiat> bradb: perhaps split up
<Lathiat> Subscribed
<Lathiat> ==
<Lathiat> Reported
<Lathiat> Assigned
<Lathiat> obviously we already have assigned
<Lathiat> also a view of all bugs accepted/assigned to a team your a member would be nice
<jbailey> bradb: Cool. =)
<bradb> Lathiat: sure, i see what you mean; those kinds of goals are useful. i'll continue thinking about it while fixing other things.
<Lathiat> also, showing people on a bug who are "subscribed" (reporter, assigned to you?) in the subscribed bit would be nice, perhaps separated from the list of otherwise subscribed people
<Lathiat> oh i see the reporter does show up
<Lathiat> if your assigned to the bug does that implicitly subscribe you?
<bradb> Lathiat: yes
<Lathiat> perhaps you shoudl show up in the list then too
<bradb> i agree
<mpt> Lathiat: That's what I meant before when I was talking about /people/yourself/+bugs -- a general list of "bugs you're involved with", linking to the more specialized lists
<Lathiat> mpt: yep, that would be nice
<kiko> mpt, that's a grand idea
<bradb> right, i'll try and seek that in in the next few days
<Lathiat> thanks! :)
<bradb> sneak, even
<kiko> you sneaker
<kiko> bradb, so, are we set for the bike?
<kiko> this is great news
<kiko> I have a race 2005-11-20
<bradb> i'll have to look into rentals, but i'm assuming it shouldn't be hard for me to find them in my 'hood
<bradb> the plateau is all bikes
<mpt> ok, I'm going home to torture gnome-screensaver
<jbailey> Ther'es a bike rental place down Mont Royale
<kiko> roxor
<kiko> jbailey, and good bikes? I don't want no steenken huffy
<jbailey> kiko: No idea.
* mpt is tempted to leave refuel running overnight again
<bradb> jbailey: there must be lots. i just picked up a sweet Rocky Mountain from pignon sur roues
<kiko> pignon sur roues!
<bradb> (which is on Mont Royal)
<kiko> mpt, if you run it on anthem with a nohup..
<kiko> ah, too late
<kiko> why should I download gaim?
<kiko> my computer came with it pre-installed!
<bradb> heh
<bradb> jbailey: btw, there are two major linux events on both sides of UBZ. Expo TI and SQIL (i.e. Expo "IT" and la semaine qubcoise d'information libre)
<bradb> i was being asked last night if Canonical (or something "Ubuntu", anyway) would be interested in representin' at expo ti
<Lathiat> also, is there a reason we dont have a 'needinfo' state ?
<Lathiat> also some method of marking something "confirmed"
<bradb> er, de l'info, not d'info, 'tous cas...
<bradb> Lathiat: i haven't yet been able to sell those to the sab
<Lathiat> i'll annoy him then ;)
<bradb> Lathiat: like you, we recognize how useful that state can be though
<Lathiat> because there should be a way to say
<bradb> Lathiat: that might help :)
<Lathiat> a) 'yeh this is a bug, but im not accepting it yet'
<Lathiat> and b) differentiate between 'no one has looked at this yet' and 'waiting for some more info'
<Lathiat> a 'confirmed' state might be better as some way of marking somethign as 'is a bug for me too' without makign a comment to that effect
<Lathiat> but needinfo should be a state imho
<bradb> Lathiat: yep, the goal is clearly useful, IMHO
<kiko> and PQM rejects me too
<kiko> FUCK YOU PQM
<bradb> heh
<kiko> in caps because I'm a manager
* bradb tries his luck at pqm roulette
<bradb> kiko: are you going to review this From/Reply-To patch?
<bradb> i'd rather not change the bugmail address tonight though, because it's going to break bugmail for people. can we revisit what the bugmail address should be next week?
<kiko> yeah,sure
<kiko> to both
<kiko> you've done lots of good work this month
<kiko> congrats
* kiko apparently has done nothing he can remember
<kiko> well, training our QA intern
<kiko> to hack all over the tree
<bradb> dirty little hacker
<kiko> N *  49 Sep 16 Tommie Langley      ( 2.0K) increased organ mass
<kiko> it says I will need to buy new pairs of pants
<bradb> hm, worth pursuing
<bradb> :P
<kiko> yeah, apparently all-natural and even vegan-safe, jbailey 
<bradb> kiko: for Reply-To: Foo Bar <bugaddress>, what value should "Foo Bar" be?
<kiko> could be the person via Malone, perhaps
<bradb> ok, i was thinking the same
<kiko> johan and I are thinking of starting a spam business
<kiko> we have a good idea
<kiko> basically we clean out spam lists of people who report spam to NANAE and spamcop and etc.
<kiko> that way we can target only people who are safe to spa
<kiko> m
<kiko> carlos is around!
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [r=kiko]  remove more dirty database imports (patch-2428: brad.bollenbach@canonical.com)
<bradb> kiko: you've got patchmail.
<bradb> i have to step out for a while. bbl.
<bradb> er, maybe bbl, that is
* bradb & # out
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix for bug 2296: Broken LInk (system error); the problem was that browser.pofile.POFileView.getPluralFormExpression was fragile. I moved the code to POHeader(), added tests and added an XXX to ensure we keep track of bugs (patch-2429: christian.reis@canonical.com)
* kiko-zzz needed a sharp refuel
<sladen> kiko-zzz: not sure how I got there.  It seems that /malone/projects should be a redirect to /projects since the some output appears there
<jordi> kiko-zzz?
<Luna-Tick> Hello?
<Luna-Tick> Well... Just to get my suggestion out to some people who may care, I think it would be a huge advance to the Bounty system if one could 'piggy-back' onto a bounty and add more money to an existing donation. 
<Luna-Tick> Well done with Launchpad; I'm off.
<mdke> good idea
<SteveA> hi
<nkour> hi guys
<nkour> accidentally I saw https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim
<nkour> now this is translators for 0.8. 0.8 has French 100% and all the rest of the langugaes there (apart from swedish)
<nkour> French   	253  	 253 66.36 percent new, 33.64 percent untranslated   	 2005-09-16  	 Nicolas Velin
<nkour> now that guy is just wasting his time as Fr is 100%. can you fix that please?
<nkour> and import the pos from the tarball of 0.8.2 ?
<nkour> OR at least https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/+edit set text as DO NOT TRANSLATE
<nkour> it's your community but who would like to be in the position of Nicolas?
<SteveA> hi nkour 
<SteveA> i'll forward what you said to the rosetta guys
<nkour> hi SteveA  at last
<SteveA> they'll probably be relaxing at the weekend
<nkour> yes also  Ricardo Prez Lpez wasted 8 hours of his time I guess
<nkour> he could also relax
<nkour> or spent his time and efforst in a project that needed spanish
<nkour> we laready have spanish
<nkour> SteveA, can you set DO NOT TRANLSATE in desc?
<mdke> nkour, the best idea would be to send an email describing the problem to the rosetta mailing list, it is rosetta-users@lists.ubuntu.com
<mdke> they can help
<SteveA> that's a good idea.  it is good to make these issues known on the mailing list. i'll also forward this directly to the rosetta developers.
<nkour> ok is there a global i18n ML?
<nkour> where  I could provide the po so the guys that have rights (I do not have rights in my own project!!!) upload the po?
<SteveA> rosetta-users@lists.ubuntu.com
<SteveA> that's the place to talk about these issues.  you can also talk to carlos or jordi here
<nkour> jordi, ping
<SteveA> carlos is just returning from vacation, so i don't think he'll be around until monday
<nkour> SteveA, ok
<SteveA> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/rosetta-users
<mdke> nkour, they both check that mailing list, so just email there and you will get a response
<nkour> mdke, k
<nkour> mdke, SteveA can I post without sub?
<mdke> no
<jordi> nkour: hello
<jordi> nkour: strange, the guy who gave us gajim files said those were the latest.
<SteveA> hiya jordi
<jordi> nkour: there's a few things we can do (besides uploading your new files):
<jordi> you can tell gajim translators that the files are in rosetta now and welcome them to use it
<jordi> ie, taking over the product and taking care of uploading up to date po files everytime you do a release or whatever
<jordi> or you can tell the rosetta translators to do their translators wherever you want
<jordi> we don't want to force upstreams into using rosetta
<nkour> jordi, they are from svn, but 0.8 is another link
<nkour> jordi, ok the problem is this. 0.8 lacks pos we have in tarball
<jordi> nkour: do you have a 0.8 branch at all in CVS?
<jordi> SteveA: can we easily get rid of branches?
<nkour> jordi, yes 0.8.2 branch but I thought you get it from tarball
<nkour> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim IS BAAAD
<nkour> and https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/main/+pots/gajim is better but I would like to press a button and to upload which po I like when we strings freeze svn
<nkour> svn trunk*
<jordi> nkour: I see. Are you the author of gajim?
<nkour> eg. upload manually /only/ the pos I like etc.. atm it seems to get from svn POT/po (or at least I hope that it does so)
<nkour> jordi, yes I'm one of the devs
<jordi> nkour: would you like to become the owner or gajim in launchpad so you can manage this stuff yourself?
<nkour> jordi, the problem is this. I cannot force all ppl to use rosetta
<nkour> jordi, yessssssss!
<jordi> you'd be able to upload updated files whenever you think it's convenient
<nkour> yes exactly
<jordi> SteveA: can you help me with that?
<SteveA> jordi: i'll take a look
<jordi> nkour: wait, I see gajim is already owned by "gajim-devs", which is owned by Christian Bjalevik
<nkour> jordi, yes Nufallo, can he pass me ownership?
<nkour> I'm in that team but not as owner
<nkour> jordi, if that happens it's great. so I can put desc WHAT languages are mantaing outside of rossetta (I cannot force all ppl to use that) and upload the POT and po that need update and accept new langs normally
<jordi> SteveA: so the product is owned by the team, and the team owned by this other guy, but nkour is in the team as an admin. Shouldn't he be able to modify the gajim product at will?
<SteveA> if you're in the team that is the owner, then you can do all sorts of stuff
<SteveA> you don't need to be an admin of that team even
<jordi> SteveA: and can this product be assigned to a gajim-devs for translation? ie, only people in that team can translate?
<jordi> at least, ubuntu translators should be assigned.
<jordi> right now it's completely open
<nkour> jordi, yes we wnat that
<nkour> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/+edit I'm owner but I get perm denied
<SteveA> i don't know how this part of rosetta teams works.  i'd rather get carlos to sort that out, then try to guess how it is supposed to be.
<jordi> SteveA: ok
<jordi> nkour: can you wait until monday for this?
<jordi> it seems christian did something wrong when registering gajim and added that rogue 0.8 series.
<nkour> jordi, can you remove gajim project from LP?
<nkour> so I can readd
<jordi> nkour: possibly not, as it's a package in ubuntu and I think it was created automatically.
<jordi> nkour: if you go to https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+changetranslators can you do anything?
<nkour> jordi, yes I can but only GNOME/PLONE/Ubu
<jordi> ok. that's a start. Can you for now set it to "ubuntu" and close it?
<jordi> https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+edit can you do anything here?
<nkour> jordi, yes I can but it seems i have to use GNOME/PLONE/UBu transla group
<jordi> nkour: yes, thats' for now, until we really fix this when carlos is back on Monday.
<nkour> jordi, can you remove the svn version and 0.8 version from rosetta and let the ubu package recatch and recreate the entry?
<jordi> This will minimise damage.
<jordi> nkour: carlos has to do that, I have no perms
<nkour> jordi, ok then I Have ubu and closed and at least I do not see ppl losing time for nothing
<nkour> hopefully*
<jordi> nkour: yeah
<nkour> jordi, thanks a lot
<nkour> I'll ping carlos
<nkour> jordi, if both version are removed and deb gets it from 0.8.2 is it ok then? 0.9 deb will make 0.9 branch in rosetta too?
<jordi> nkour: can you access the https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+edit ?
<nkour> jordi, yes nothing useful there
<jordi> nope. The "package" pot is always what Ubuntu has. If you want to track newer CVS/SVN versions, you attach them to the series, and you can update that by hand whenever you like (ie, a week before a release, etc)
<nkour> ok
<nkour> I will do that for 0.9 once we freeze strings. which is not the case so I'll ping caros. in that page you said I can edit but nothing importnat there
<jordi> https://launchpad.net/products/gajim
<jordi> have a look now
<jordi> nkour: what you should do: change the description of the HEAD branch and make it clear people should translate from ther.e
<jordi> then upload a tar.gz with the current po and pot files (if you don't know how or have problems, please tell me)
<jordi> nkour: see https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/main/+pots/gajim/ I added a note.
<jordi> You can edit it if you want to make it better.
<jordi> For now, that should help.
<nkour> ok you did [DEPRECATED] 
<nkour> jordi, I think there is a script that runs everyday to get POT/PO from svn. can you stop that?
<nkour> because if such script runs it overwrites work in LP
<nkour> I would prefer the scenario you said. update which pot/po I like whenever I like (eg. on strings freeze which is more logic)
<nkour> jordi, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/+edit add HERE that YOU SHOULD NOT TRANLSATE that
<jordi> I added another note.
<jordi> regarding a script, I think you mean the stuff that updates what's in ubuntu into rosetta.
<jordi> I can't stop that, we can promote the ranslation of HEAD over that one though.
<nkour> jordi, no the desc you added is not good. because I do not know why but we have 11 pos IN the tarball and LP only lists 2
<jordi> hmm, it must be outdated.
<nkour> jordi, please say: "Do not work on this page at all. See HEAD"
<jordi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim/+upload
<nkour> orry, you don't have permission to access this page.
<nkour> You are logged in as Nikos Kouremenos. 
<jordi> if you upload a tar.gz with the updated files (including pot), you should be ok
<jordi> fuck
<nkour> if you say fuck, imagine what I should say
<jordi> if you can prepare me such a tarball, I'll do it for you
<nkour> :)
<jordi> heh
<nkour> you want pot and po listed how in the tar.gz?
<nkour> I do not understand why I do not have perm there
<nkour> jordi, http://trac.gajim.org/browser/branches/gajim_0.8.2/po/ /me goes to buy a pizza to eat
<nkour> jordi, any progress?
<jordi> nkour: nope, I've been busy at home
<nkour> jordi, k
<Kinnison> ciao
<jordi> nkour: I think it's done now.
<nkour> jordi, wait to c
<nkour> jordi, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim I see nothing new
<nkour> apart from yet another guy who lost his time
<nkour> adl (german)
<mdke> jordi, that persian rtl problem seems to be real: i sent him the xml file and it doesn't work
<mdke> sivang, you around by any chance?
<jordi> mdke: I have no experience with that :(
<jordi> hmm, danilo didn't reply.
<jordi> nkour: can't do anything about that German guy. Bad timing, he did his work at the same time as we were fixing it.
<jordi> nkour: if any file is missing please tell me. I think everything is correct though.
<jordi> I'm leaving.
<bob2> can someone make an adobe acrobat product so I can file a critical bug asking for it to be removed from ubuntu?
<Nafallo> bob2: hilarious ;-)
<Kinnison> Hey dudes
<bob2> hey kinnison
* Kinnison tickles bob2
<cogumbreiro> lo all
<cogumbreiro> i'm serpentine's upstream, I would like to know how can I edit its values on launchpad
<Kinnison> cogumbreiro: which values were you meaning?
<Kinnison> Do you mean the product entry?
<Kinnison> If so, what is your launchpad ID so I can reassign it to you?
* Kinnison is a launchpad admin
<cogumbreiro> cool, it's cogumbreiro@users.sf.net
<Kinnison> naah, what comes in /people/<FOO> ?
<cogumbreiro> ah sorry
<cogumbreiro> prolly cogumbreiro, let me check
<Kinnison> yep
<cogumbreiro> yeah ;)
<Kinnison> Any way to prove to me that you are the right person?
<Kinnison> (and not someone masquerading as tiago)
<cogumbreiro> http://s1x.homelinux.net/projects/serpentine
<cogumbreiro> lol, how do i prove it? :)
<Kinnison> Can you stuff some obvious message on there for a sec? E.g. "Hi Kinnison" or something
<cogumbreiro> ok, on a comment :)
<cogumbreiro> wait a sec
<cogumbreiro> Kinnison: i'm going to post an entry on my blog about launchpad, wait a few secs
<Kinnison> okay, say when you've done it
<cogumbreiro> Kinnison: http://s1x.homelinux.net/node/129 if you view its source you'll notice that I've put a HTML comment saying <!--waves at Kinnison--> right on the end of the post
<Kinnison> looks good to me
<Kinnison> assigned
<Kinnison> I hope you enjoy your launchpad experience </marketing>
<Kinnison> :-)
<cogumbreiro> ehehe
<sivang> mdke: now I am, what's up?
<sivang> Kinnison: yo -)
<cogumbreiro> first I have to learn how to used it and how to benefit from it, the thing that's most appealling is rosetta
<Kinnison> heyhi sivan.
<sivang> jordi: I see you and mdke looked for me?
<segfault> system error trying to open this url: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/update-notifier/+pots/update-notifier/pt_BR/+translate
<Kinnison> cogumbreiro: jordi is a rosetta dude. You should talk to him :-)
<Kinnison> segfault: odd, looks like a double conversion issue. Dunno how to fix that without a rosetta developer, sorry :-(
<HWolf> Guys, can I offer a suggestion for Rosetta?
<Kinnison> Yes, although it might be better mailed to the rosetta mailing list
<Kinnison> (Since the rosetta dev team aren't here right now :-)
<Kinnison> Or you can file a bug on rosetta in malone
<Kinnison> :-)
<HWolf> Kinnison, I need the searchengine to find a specific string in Rosetta, so that I can quickly adjust translations that honestly make me sick. :P
<Kinnison> file a bug, detailing the functionality you want, how you'd see it fitting in, and why you think it's worthwhile
<Kinnison> that's the best way
* Kinnison thinks such a search tool would be a useful thing
<Kinnison> but I'm not on rosetta :-)
#launchpad 2005-09-23
<jordi> hi
<jordi> sivang?
<jordi> sivang: mdke is having problems translating xml using xml2po for rtl languages. I thought you might know how to get yelp to show stuff rtl, not ltr
<jordi> sivang: if you know something, please ping mdke.
<jordi> I'm leaving again.
<Kinnison> ciao all
<Mez> https://launchpad.net/+specs
<Mez> 404
<Mez> should be
<Mez> https://launchpad.net/specs
<Mez> anyone around
<Mez> your ticket 1 is a bit weird
<Mez> says it's posted by mark
<Mez> and then in the ticket  says it's posted by mark and someone else
<mdke> sivang, yes, we have a problem because yelp displays the persian translation of a document from left to right, instead of right to left
* Kinnison yawns
<Kinnison> Morning Launchpadders
<mdke> morning
<lifeless> ola
<jordi> hey
* jordi is bck from the triathlon.
<Kinnison> hey jordi
<jordi> hi Kinnison 
<jordi> damn, late as always
<jordi> laters
* Kinnison grins
<SteveA> hi
<tca> How can I remove my registration on lanchpad.net? I did register to see how it worked, but I don't intend to use it.
<sivang> tca: you better ask tommorow morning, I think everyone are off now :-)
<sivang> tca: btw, what don't you intend to use launchapd?
<tca> I prefer people use whatever programs they like to do the translation, and just send me the .po file.
<Kinnison> tca: may as well keep your registration in case you want to file bugs on other software which uses launchpad
<sivang> Kinnison: say, if I want to suggest some improvment for the issue tracker to maybe be discussed at UBZ where shoudl I put it?
<Kinnison> sivang: If you think it should be discussed at UBZ then suggest it as a BoF
<Kinnison> I think the wiki has a page for it
<sivang> Kinnison: the distro team has, the launchapd one - I didn't find
<Kinnison> Hmm
<Kinnison> one sec
<sivang> I figured we should do a distinction between the two
<Kinnison> Wait until tomorrow and suggest it (is my best guess)
<sivang> Kinnison: maybe start a BOF suggestion page on the launchpad wiki?
<Kinnison> It's a bit difficult. I'm not sure what the structure will be for the launchpad side
<sivang> Kinnison: ok, who is responsiuble for that? Scheduling ?
<Kinnison> not sure
* Kinnison hasn't been looking yet
* Kinnison suggests you ask these questions tomorrow, of kiko or stevea
<sivang> Kinnison: ok, I will
<sivang> Kinnison: good night again :-)
#launchpad 2005-09-24
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix for bug # 2374 and bug # 2376, GPG/CoC missapplied messages. (patch-2430: celso.providelo@canonical.com)
<stub> lifeless: Don't suppose you have handly the patch levels of sourcerer, cscvs, etc. that I need to use for tomorrows release? Cherry picks on production 1.33 are currently failing due to test failures.
<lifeless> stub: latest sourcerer and hct and rf
<lifeless> or dont cherry pick after the hct landing to launchpad
<stub> lifeless: I think issue is the patch level I need to rollout (production-1.33, devel--0--patch-2420) is from a rather volatile point in the hct landing and I'm going to hard code some patch levels to get the production release stable and tests passing. Otherwise I could roll in a few more features and rollout patch-2422 and skip the hct landing point.
<lifeless> stub: rollout hct - 3 and sourcerer -3
<lifeless> hct head is good for lp head, hct head - 1 is a rollback of hct head -2. 
<stub> - 3 patch levels fromo trunk. Got it.
* stub is turning italian
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0: [trivial]  Snapshot 1.32 attempting to fix cherry pick problems (patch-115: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: [trivial]  Specifications patch from Steve, with added 'i' (patch-7: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Add needed <malone> section to production configs (patch-2431: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.32: [trivial]  Add needed <malone> config sections (patch-8: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<SteveA> hi
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0: [trivial]  Snapshot 1.33 attempting to fix cherry pick problems (patch-116: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<SteveA> hi stub.  how's it all going?
<stub> Good enough
<sivang> Good Morning all
<SteveA> lifeless: my X1 just arrived
<SteveA> lifeless: anything i need to know before installing breezy on it?
<lifeless> SteveA: nup
<lifeless> oh
<sivang> SteveA: IBM laptop?
<lifeless> you need the 915resolution thingy
<lifeless> sivang: better
<SteveA> sivang: nope. dell.
<SteveA> lifeless: okay.  is there a package, or is it a DIY?
<SteveA> or, can i steal it from you, and stick it on a USB key
<lifeless> SteveA: DIY, I have source around here.
<lifeless> mailed you signed binary
<lifeless> uhm, I put it in /etc/acpi/resume.sh and in the gdm init script
<lifeless> erm, not resume. hmm somewhere
<lifeless>         /usr/local/sbin/915resolution 32 1280 768
<lifeless>         /usr/local/sbin/915resolution 43 1280 768
<lifeless>         /usr/local/sbin/915resolution 52 1280 768
<lifeless> damn, something has removed it from my resume script
<lifeless> probably why hibernate resume isn't working :_)
<lifeless> I put that after the vbetool state restore line
<SteveA> hmm... bad signature from you
<SteveA> because the MG2 Works virus scanner added some text to the message
<SteveA> and removed the attachment
<SteveA> maybe you can send it again, encrypted and signed?
* SteveA pings lifeless 
<sivang> lifeless: how come it's better? (I want to buy one and want to hear recommendations)
<lifeless> SteveA: garh.
<SteveA> only complaint so far is the lack of a PC card slot.  i'll need to get a CF to PC card adapter to allow my EDGE card to work
<lifeless> SteveA: goddamn evos gpg logic is sucky
<stub> Did you get a sane keyboard from DELL, or stuck with Lithuanian or whatever the local variant is?
<SteveA> got a british one
<SteveA> wanted a US one
<SteveA> lifeless: got it, thanks
<stub> SteveA: The country selector widget is busted - reload your order page and you find your contry listed as Afganistan
<stub> None of the options have selected= set
<SteveA> arse. 
<SteveA> does it write data properly to the database?
<stub> SteveA: Yes - country is being stored correctly
<SteveA> okay, so not a showstopper
<SteveA> but i can see a cherrypick request occuring tomorrow
<stub> SteveA: It means that if people edit their order and don't explicitly set their country back to the correct value, it will nuke that information.
<SteveA> oh.  that's not good.
* Kinnison continues to clean out the dogfood db
<Kinnison> sometimes postgresql can be v. slow
<\sh> hmm...can somebody explain how I can search for fixed/rejected bugreports in malone for a specific assigned team/person?
<carlos> goooood morning!!!
<SteveA> hi carlos
<SteveA> welcome back
<carlos> thanks
<carlos> how's going?
<SteveA> things are looking pretty good
<SteveA> there's some rosetta stuff that jordi was helping with over the weekend
<SteveA> an issue about the wrong version of a pot file being in rosetta
<SteveA> and possibly some permissions problems with who can change stuff / upload pot files
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I hope I will have all changes done so Jordi has all rights in place.
<carlos> now that language packs seems to have only minor problems, that should be doable
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.33: [trivial]  Add needed <malone> config sections (patch-3: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<Kinnison> stub: how often does gina commit() ?
<Kinnison> aah, -c
<Kinnison> never mind
<sivang> SteveA: I asked Kinnison the other day about a good Zope book, as someone interested in how something like Launchpad is developed. He said you might have some recommendations, being the Zope guru ;-) 
<bob2> sivang: I'd recommend "web component development with zope3" because not only does it develop a recipe database, but it includes poetry from SteveA 
<sivang> bob2: what's a recipe database ?
<bob2> sivang: a database of recipes...
<bob2> cooking?
<sivang> bob2: Python Poetry ? :-)
<bob2> of course
* sivang looks it up
<jamesh> stub: ping?
<stub> jamesh: pong
<jamesh> stub: in the database adapter changes I'm doing to help time out long running requests, I want to make sure a transaction doesn't get committed
<SteveA> lifeless: oddly, it won't boot an install CD from the dell external CD drive.  Using a different external CD drive in the USB port on the other side of the machine works.
<jamesh> stub: there are two ways I can see to do that: wrap the commit/rollback methods on the connection object to prevent the commit after a timeout, or tell postgres error out the transaction when the timeout is detected (without actually aborting the transaction at that stage)
<jamesh> stub: which method do you think would be better?
<stub> What problem are you trying to solve? Someone catching the exception (deliberately or accidently) and keeping going? Any other database exception screws up the connection, so I would just screw it up too.
<lifeless> SteveA: weird, worked for me
<SteveA> also, the install CD just broke
* SteveA hopes he hasn't got a flaky laptop
<stub> So a quick fix would be to simply abort the transaction or issue a dud command, or just not worrying about this case
<lifeless> I'll say
<jamesh> stub: okay.  is there an actual command to error out the connection, or do a dud command?
<jamesh> aborting the transaction would not stop future queries from being accepted, which is a problem
<stub> I don't think there is a 'break this transaction' command ;)
* jamesh wonders what statement has the least chance of becoming valid in a future version of postgres :)
<stub> 'break this transaction' is probably a good bet ;)
<SteveA> this concept was "dooming a transaction" when discussed with zope before
<SteveA> the idea is, a doomed transaction cannot be committed
<SteveA> i think hooking commit() and making it raise is the safest bet
<ddaa> Yarrrrgl, shit!
<ddaa> lifeless: python import failed again because of connection refused in the middle of the import
<lifeless> shitfuckdamn
<ddaa> Mh...
<lifeless> talk to niemeyer
<ddaa> I'm not sure that connection refused is actually being retried now.
<lifeless> might be working getting an synced copy locally, running up cvs on that
<lifeless> then talk locally
<ddaa> That could be a pretty trivial fix to enable retrying on connection refused.
<ddaa> I did not enable it, because the semantics of that seemed wrong to me.
* ddaa checks
<ddaa> lifeless: mh, I think all the required plumbing is still around
<ddaa> lifeless: which one would you prefer?
<lifeless> ddaa: shortest path followed by prevent-other-occurences
* ddaa is not sure how to parse that
<lifeless> whats fastest to do ?
<lifeless> to get python in
<lifeless> do that.
<lifeless> After doing that, if we still are vulnerable to that code path not retrying, make it retry.
<ddaa> In all likelihood, a local cvs repo will yield a quicker import, even though it will require more work
<lifeless> go to it...
<lifeless> until neimeyer awakes, I suggest starting on the other fix
<ddaa> why is neimeyer required for that?
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> where is it hosted ?
<ddaa> sourceforge, of course...
<lifeless> oh, easy then :0
* ddaa is trying to find the "download cvs tarball" link
<lifeless> ddaa: there is none. use our url generators logic
<ddaa> ?
<lifeless> theres a pattern to the urls
<lifeless> we had some code somewhere at one point to calculate it
<lifeless> the only folk that get the link are project admins
<ddaa> SIGSEV
<ddaa> (invalide reference, I mean)
<ddaa> I do not recall that.
<ddaa> lifeless: I have no clue where that code is/were. I'll wait niemeyer since you suggest he might know something useful.
<ddaa> * wait for niemeyer
<lifeless> ddaa: look in old emails
<lifeless> ddaa: I'm sure we've got a reference handy
<ddaa> no idea what you want me to look for, I do not recall ever talking about automatic generation of cvs tarball urls.
<ddaa> ha, found something
<ddaa> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cvstarballs/
<ddaa> lifeless: WTF?
<ddaa> https://macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com/hoover/status/
<ddaa> https://macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com/roomba/status/
<ddaa> ha, nevermind
* ddaa hacks importd so it will actually use cvstarfileurl, again
<ddaa> and blesses test suites for catching his stupid typos
<ddaa> or maybe should I curse duck typing
<ddaa> okay guys, let's rewrite launchpad in... I dunno... C#?
<ddaa> mhh... no, OCaml!
<Kinnison> OCaml!
* Kinnison had to install ocamlweb on his server the other day
<Kinnison> sodding customers
<SteveA> stub: i've hacked up another servertest program that totally refuses connections this time
<stub> ok
<SteveA> stub: send as signed mail.
<SteveA> also, i think we'll want to have a different upper and lower boundary of pending tasks, so the socket state doesn't flutter.
<mpt> Good morning Launchpad lovers
<niemeyer> Morning! :)
<SteveA> mpt: morning
<Kinnison> heyhi mpt
<SteveA> mpt: on my launchpad--Menus--0 branch, i've resolved conflicts with RF, and fixed a bug in one of the summaries you added
<mpt> SteveA: Awesome, thanks
<mpt> The former was #1 on my to-do list for today (and the latter I didn't know existed)
<stub> SteveA: That works better with Pound. It decides that the backend is dead, which will cause all requests to be redirected to another backend. It does cause some annoying spam in the logs ('connection reset by peer'), but no need to fret over that.
<SteveA> stub: okay.  so, i'll work this into something for launchpad then.
<sivang> morning mpt !
<SteveA> hmm.. about those messages in the logs
<SteveA> does that mean that existing connections are being killed off?
<SteveA> i guess i should try with wget
<SteveA> and make sure it actually gets the proper result returned, or gets a connection refused
<mpt> hi sivang
* carlos -> lunch
<stub> SteveA: I expect it is because the connection connection, but was then reset or dropped. Which is different to what it normally expects to see when a backend dies (the connection doesn't connect at all). 
<SteveA> that isn't what i want to happen
<SteveA> connections that get accepted should to go completion
<SteveA> but i'm not sure i can actually make that work all the time
<SteveA> i am a bit concerned that all the tasks are essentially being aborted.  so, i'll check that out with a wget script
<stub> Just don't waste too much time on it if you have stuff you would rather be playing with - I'm thinking this won't make much different in our production environment (if one server dies like this, all the rest will soon follow)
<ddaa> lifeless: in case you're around, I finally got a cvstarfileurl import of python running on roomba. (needed a lot of tweaking because cvstarfileurl support had bitrotten a bit and because the launchpad code on importd is sooo old).
<lifeless> ddaa: mm,  if it passes please check by hand against a _real_ python checkout for config problems
<ddaa> mh... not sure how to do this check by hand
<ddaa> we'll talk about it tomorrow, it's still going to take a while, and I definitely need lunch.
<ddaa> and you need sleep
<lifeless> ddaa: 'cvs co -D yesterday'; 'diff -x .arch-ids -x {arch} -x CVS'
<mpt> lifeless: baz merge gets to "* from archive cached: steve.alexander@canonical.com/launchpad--Menus--0--patch-86", and goes no further
<mpt> What's the electronic equivalent of poking it with a stick? :-)
<lifeless> mpt: strace it
<lifeless> mpt: if lines output, its doing shit
<lifeless> night all
<mpt> "if lines output"?
<mpt> oh, output verb
<ddaa> kind of things you really want to do in a genuine xterm
<mpt> yah, it's doing lots of read(), occasional write(), and very occasional rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE)
<ddaa> maybe it's actually downloading the cachedrev
<ddaa> the download code is incredibly slow, and the cachedrevs have grown stupidly huge
<mpt> ah, that's quite possible
<ddaa> (then there's also the fact that revisions built from cachedrevs are not hardlinked in the revlib, so you will probably want to library-relink a bit after that)
<kiko> mpt, you're the one eating up all our bandwidth
<mpt> kiko: Oh, that's all right then :-)
<ddaa> it's great time we all go bzr, baz warts have become really annoying
<sivang> mpt: so there's still work to be done in order to make changes from one reflect on the other I support
<sivang> s/support/suppose/
<mpt> yes
<mpt> I suspect that might be a Malone 1.0.1 task
<sivang> Guys, if I have a suggestion and ideas for BOF's related to Launchpad, where should I Put them? (I think we better have a seperate place maybe on the launchpad wiki?)
<mpt> sivang: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs, I think
<mpt> They're going to need to be scheduled just like the non-LP BoFs
<sivang> mpt: I'm sure, but I thought maybe they would be put somewhere else then where the distro team puts their's.
<mpt> I doubt it, since some of the same people are involved
<kiko> mpt, sivang: AIUI the plan is to schedule the bofs using launchpad
<sivang> kiko: I've seen a "spec" manager already available, when will we have access to it?
* sivang wonders if launchapd shoudl attempt to schedule the meetings by itself using some linear programming algorithm ;-)
<sivang> s/meetings/BOFs/
* mpt wonders what algorithm Launchpad's scheduler uses
<sivang> mpt: why does launchapd need a scheduler ? (apart for the calander and events, maybe)
<mpt> sivang: for the "Sprint" scheduling app that kiko mentioned
<sivang> mpt: ah so UBZ is yet another launchpad sprint from your point of view? :-)
<mpt> sivang: No
<mpt> sivang: On the contrary, if Launchpad's sprint scheduler was useful only for Launchpad developers, it probably shouldn't be in Launchpad, because of the "huh?" factor
<mpt> or more precisely, the "this Launchpad thing obviously isn't for me" factor
<sivang> ah I see, so you suggest all of the BOFs should be registered in launchapd and launchapd should use Ubuntu as a test case of it's scheduling capabilities ...?
<kiko> sivang, I believe that's the plan, but hold on a bit until we can configm
<kiko> confirm, even.
<sivang> kiko: sure thing, thanks, and sorry for the noise.
<mpt> sivang: No, I'm not suggesting they should be (I'm dubious about the whole "sprint" thing, given the proportion of Free Software projects that are able to afford such meetings)
<mpt> but it will be interesting to try, at least.
<sivang> very much indeed. As in, I've started writing a spec on the train, would be nice to have launchapd ask me in a stanza form, question to guide me in writing it.
<sivang> (altough I would have to have GPRS for that..)
<mpt> That wouldn't work unless the train had satellite Internet :-)
<mpt> and anyway, Launchpad's spec tracker doesn't actually let you enter specs
<kiko> if the route had GPRS support it would probably work
<sivang> mpt: so will I be able to at least attach a MoinMoin formatted text file for the spec tracking? or is it just for tracking completiong and status of a spec? (could be as well linked ot it's page on Moin)
<mpt> yes, you have to host the spec elsewhere and give Launchpad the URL
<ddaa> sivang: I think the "sprint thing" is probably more relevant that you think already, and will become more in the future. All that is required is that the core devels are either 1. close geographically 2. dedicated enough to pay for a yearly trip 3. working for a company where they can have that as a professional expense.
<ddaa> I might be a dreamer, but I think 3 is bound to become more widespread in the years to come as companies understand open development processes better.
<Kinnison> sivang: You put the spec somewhere and link it from launchpad
<Kinnison> sivang: E.g. aranha's specs are on http://wiki.digital-scurf.org/Aranha/Specs
<ddaa> rolled out svn directory copying patch, kicked samba and ubuntu-doc
<ddaa> elmo: please sacrifice a goat on the import servers, kthxbye
<mpt> SteveA: I'm doing Project menus now, scream if I shouldn't be
<sivang> ddaa: I sure do hope os :-)
<sivang> Kinnison: nice , so I can just start linking my UBZ/BOFS/specX from the spec tracker?
<Kinnison> sivang: I think the spec tracker is for the owner of the product
* Kinnison isn't certain what the rules are yet
<sivang> k, we'll just wait then
<kiko> hey carlos, how's it going?
<kiko> mpt, you know bug 2117?
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bugs/2117/+edit
<kiko> why don't you reassign that to bradb?
<carlos> kiko, fine, thanks, cleaning up my mail queue
<kiko> carlos, mine is ghastly too
<jbailey> Do man pages go into rosetta automatically at this point?
<bradb> kiko: that bug is already fixed in the URLs branch, though given that the sab made me remove the "Edit Assignee/Status Details" link, he may tell me to remove the "File Bug on <context>" and "Search <context>" links I added to the actions portlet
<carlos> kiko, it's not too bad here...
<mpt> kiko: done
<bradb> kiko: I also ensured that they're in the same place on the task page too
<kiko> bradb, the latest bugs portlet has those links already, no need to put them in the actions portlet, given that..
<kiko> but okay
<bradb> kiko: I removed it from the latest bugs portlet
<bradb> to be a place where it can be seen
<kiko> removing it from the latest bugs portlet makes it impossible to file bugs or search bugs from anywhere else the portlet is displayed, doesn't it? product or source package page, for instance..
<bradb> kiko: no, those links should simply always be in the actions portlet, imho
<bradb> because you can't seem them in the not-actions portlet anyway :)
<kiko> even for those other contexs?
<bradb> s/seem/see/
<kiko> why can't you? :)
<kiko> anyway, not such a big deal
<bradb> kiko: too much data already shown on the page
<bradb> when it lands, you'll see. I'm not too bothered either way, but I think you'll like it.
<kiko> yeah, okay
<bradb> kiko: btw, can I land the From/Reply-To patch that I sent you?
<bradb> BjornT: How's the URL changes review coming along?
<BjornT> bradb: just having a lunch break. it shouldn't take too much longer to finish the review, though.
<bradb> cool, thanks
<kiko> bradb, yeah, let me check. I thought I said r=kiko but I think you missed it.
<BjornT> bradb: note that there are a bunch of conflicts now. i'll send a review of the patch level you submitted for review, and then take a quick look at the remaining changes after you've resolved the conflicts.
<kiko> bradb, ah, I remembered. I'd ask you to check with Keybuk 
<kiko> Keybuk?
<jordi> sivang?
<Keybuk> kiko: hello
<kiko> how's it going
<jordi> jblack: ping?
<kiko> Keybuk, can you take a look at bradb's proposed change to bugmail headers?
<kiko> Keybuk, basically, he's set From: the OP and Reply-To: xxx@bugs.launchpad
<Keybuk> URL?
* cprov cprov-out
<bradb> kiko: are you going to forward him the patch or am i?
<Keybuk> ... you mean there's no spec? :)
<kiko> there is a spec
<kiko> bradb, perhaps update the spec and send both to keybuk?
<kiko> you can do it
<bradb> ok
<sivang> jordi: yeah
<sivang> jordi: did I ping you ?
<jordi> sivang: we asked you over the weekend
<sivang> jordi: ah, re: making yelp display from right to left, I havn't had time to look at the link you sent me , can you please resend it?
<jordi> 12:23 < mdke> sivang, yes, we have a problem because yelp displays the persian translation of a document from left to right, instead of right to left
<jordi> what was the link?
<jordi> I'lve lost my buffer
<zyga> hello
<sivang> jordi: mdke sent some link to a docteam repor somewhere.
<sivang> jordi: let's see if I can find it up
<zyga> I need help with squashing one bug down
<zyga> could anyone take a look at: http://mateusz.loskot.net/gallery/ubuntu-breezy/edytor_konta_uzytkownika
<zyga> and tell me what package contains this configuration utility?
<zyga> there is a nasty translation bug there, someone confused 'confirmation' with 'configuration'
<WaterSevenUb> zyga, can you make a screenshot in English?:)
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: that's not my screenshot and I dont have breezy handy ATM, that's the user configuration utility 
<WaterSevenUb> zyga, aah..
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: if you look close (near the bottom) it says 'Konfiguracja' which means 'configuration'
<zyga> and it should of course say 'configmation'
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: hi, by the way :-)
<zyga> I requested po downloads from rosetta but I've got no emails yet
<ddaa> jamesh: ping
<WaterSevenUb> zyga, hi :-)) 
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: I think I've got it
<zyga> pitti's .tar.bz2 of all .po's sure is handy :)
<WaterSevenUb> zyga, users-admin
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: hmm...
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: it's not here 
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: it was not in rosetta either
<WaterSevenUb> zyga, gnome-system-tools?
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: got it!
<bradb> kiko: 
<bradb> er
<kiko> yes?
<SteveA> hi
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: btw, how did you know it was supposed to be in gnome-system-tools?
<zyga> WaterSevenUb: how did you associate g-s-t and users-admin
<bradb> kiko: Just to confirm, is it correct to say that, if foo.bar@canonical.com is subscribed to an ML, and an email is sent to that ML From: foo.bar@canonical.com, Reply-To: somewhere@else.com, the mail will go through even if the list is members only?
<carlos> bradb, yes
<bradb> carlos: ok, thanks
<sivang> zyga: apt-file search users-admin
<sivang> gnome-system-tools: usr/bin/users-admin
<sivang> zyga: it will give you the package holding a file
<zyga> sivang: thanks :)
<WaterSevenUb> zyga, in my case... by empirical experience :)
<sivang> zyga: my pleasure
<sivang> WaterSevenUb: lol
<WaterSevenUb> sivang, :-)
<bradb> Keybuk: patch sent, with link to updated spec
<kiko> sladen?
<jordi> jblack: I'll be back.
<bradb> ********************************************************
<bradb> *  13 conflicted items in this tree. Please            *
<bradb> * resolve each conflict with "baz resolved 'filename'" *
<bradb> ********************************************************
<salgado> BjornT, ping?
<BjornT> hi salgado 
<salgado> hi BjornT. I'm trying to fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2411, and I hope you can give me some help, as it involves an auto generated widget
<salgado> aparently the problem is because I'm not providing the context to the widget, so it doesn't know where to get the selected value from
<salgado> it that's really the problem, how do I pass the context to the widget?
<WaterSevenUb> zyga, where did you get the langpack tarball ?:)
<WaterSevenUb> zyga, you asked pitti directly?
<carlos> jordi, hi, around?
<BjornT> salgado: sorry, was on the phone. which view class does the setting up of the widget?
<salgado> BjornT, ShipItRequestView. and its context is a shippingrequest
<BjornT> salgado: ok. it seems that ShipItRequestView.context is an IShipItApplication, so you need to explicitly pass in the correct context (context=shippingrequest) to setUpWidgets
<carlos> SteveA, hi, around?
<SteveA> yes
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix a bug in EmailAddressSet.getByEmail() and another in the reset password form processing. r=kiko (patch-2432: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<sladen> kiko-fud: yo?
<carlos> SteveA, is the gajim issue solved completely?
<carlos> SteveA, should I do anything about it?
<Kinnison> What time do people think spiv will get here?
<Kinnison> ca. 6h time?
<SteveA> carlos: if i recall it all, there's the issue of whether a new pot file will be synced over the one they want translated by some importer script, whether we have a problem with permissions (the irc transcript seemed to show there was a problem with people from a team that ought to be able to do something not being able to)
<SteveA> carlos: i think you need to talk with jordi, or with nkour about it
<carlos> SteveA, ok
<carlos> thanks
<salgado> BjornT, IIUC, the context I need to pass is the one which has an attribute named country, right? if so, that would be an IPerson (the logged in user). but that doesn't seem to work
<jordi> carlos: not resolved.
<jordi> minimised, at most.
<carlos> jordi, what's missing?
<jordi> carlos: it seems the breezy template was outdated. I am not sure updating by hand is the way to go, but I did that on request of the upstream developer. It seems people were re-translating it there.
<jordi> second, the 0.8 branch is wrong (a fuckup by the guy who registered gajim), and should be removed.
<carlos> jordi, the template was outdated?
<carlos> jordi, did you check that breezy has a new version?
<jordi> third, gajim is owned by gajim-devs, to which nkour belongs, but he has no access to perform some admin actions in the product.
<jordi> carlos: I checked in packages.u.c yes.
<carlos> jordi, I cannot do anything about the 0.8 branch, morgs or stub should help there
<BjornT> salgado: yes, that should work. i'll take a quick look again
<carlos> jordi, did you check the content of the tarball? if they are not updating the .pot file is not our fault and will require that pitti do some changes on the build process to update it
<jordi> didn't check that, no.
<jordi> easy enough to do though.
<jordi> jblack: ping
<BjornT> salgado: hmm, i'd expect passing the context would work, might be a bug somewhere... anyway, passing initial={'country': self.user.country} works
<BjornT> salgado: the other option is to use setUpEditWidgets instead, and pass source=self.user
<kiko-fud> hey sladen 
<salgado> BjornT, what's the preferred option?
<BjornT> salgado: i'd say setUpEditWidgets. but i think we'll move away from these functions soon, and use zope.formlib instead.
<SteveA> lifeless: if you make the 915 resolution hack run before S05vbesave, then you won't need it in resume.sh
<SteveA> salgado: did you take a look at mark's EditView base class?
<salgado> SteveA, no, not yet
<SteveA> i think now is a good time for you to look
<BjornT> SteveA, salgado: by the looks of it, it seems that mark's FormView has the same problem, it uses setUpWidgets with no initial values
<SteveA> let
<SteveA> let's fix this in the EditView then
* salgado looks at it
<BjornT> it's call FormView, btw
<salgado> yes, I saw in the email mark sent
<salgado> the problem is that all my trees are too old. none of them have launchpad/browser/form.py
<SteveA> hmm.. yeah, i guess we should keep this clean for cherrypicking
<salgado> yes. I'm going to commit my fix, ask stub to cherrypick it and then I'll look into using FormView
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<elmo> is naieve large file reading known to suck in python?
<elmo> i.e. if I open() and .readlines() a 120Mb file isn't going to hurt my machine?
<salgado> SteveA, mpt's having pt classess now
<salgado> cprov, did you fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2376 in one of your branches already?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2314. r=kiko (patch-2433: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<kiko> sladen, can you follow up on bug 2249?
<kiko> or
<kiko> go salgado
<cprov> salgado: it's already in RF patch-2340, I've done it during the weekend
<cprov> salgado: btw, did you modified the template some time ago ?
<salgado> cprov, what's the change you made? according to SteveA's request I was thinking the problem would be in foaf-validategpg.pt, but that template is correct
<salgado> cprov, I changed all LoginToken templates some time ago; mainly to add this option so you can be logged in after submitting the form
<cprov> salgado: simply removed the not used section in the template you mentioned
<salgado> cprov, what's the "not used section"?
<cprov> salgado: "keep me logged after reset my password" or something like that
<salgado> cprov, but that *is used*. the only problem with that is the text
<salgado> it should say "log me in after validating my key" instead of what it says now
<cprov> salgado: does the validade_gpg token do that ?
<salgado> that's already merged in rocketfuel?
<salgado> yes, it does. all LoginTokens do that. 
<salgado> kiko, can you access https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/people/svaksha/+editwikinames so I can get to the traceback ?
<kiko> sure
<kiko> salgado, remember to update bug 2314's status
<salgado> thanks to remind me. I had it open here
<kiko> salgado, what's the bug # for svaksha's issue?
<salgado> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1576
<kiko> funny traceback
<cprov> salgado: my mistake, the docstring wasn't updated, I'll repair it now
<salgado> cprov, don't worry. I'll fix it
<salgado> the text needs to be fixed in other templates too
<salgado> cprov, are you sure it's patch-2340?
<cprov> salgado: ok, PEP-237 compilant docstring for  validateGpg method would be great, can you do it for me too ?
<kiko> salgado, actually https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2369
<cprov> salgado: 2430 ... this weekend
<kiko> salgado, posted traceback
<salgado> kiko, ta
<salgado> cprov, you said 2340 before
<kiko> salgado, it's quite an odd one
<salgado> kiko, I've never seen something similar
<cprov> salgado: yes, yes forgive me sir ;) bug number and changeset are getting fuzzy this time
<kiko> oh!
<salgado> he doesn't have a ubuntu wiki
<SteveA> how about we have changesets the same as bugnumbers?  can bzr do that?
<kiko> salgado, found it.
<salgado> kiko, you have access to the production database now?
<kiko> salgado, read-only, yes.
<salgado> kiko, can you run https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileXKiAOv.html on production for me?
<kiko> hmm, actually, elmo hasn't set up my account on gangotri yet. can it be staging?
<salgado> I guess so
<kiko>  wiki | wikiname 
<kiko> ------+----------
<kiko> (0 rows)
<salgado> kiko, this one https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileca1O4i.html, now. ;)
<kiko> (27 rows)
<kiko> including dsilvers and robitaille
<kiko> 32167
<kiko> this is the highest ID, salgado 
<salgado> this is bad
<kiko> 247027
<salgado> kiko, https://launchpad.net/people/dsilvers/+editwikinames
<kiko> that's our highest ID
<salgado> you should get the same traceback there
<kiko> salgado, same traceback.
<kiko> launchpad_staging=> select id from person where name = 'neumann';
<kiko>    id   
<kiko> --------
<kiko>  246887
<kiko> salgado, for the record. :)
<kiko> (so it probably is a remainder of a bug somewhere, or something that only happens very rarely)
<salgado> kiko, I know you're good at that, so maybe you can go to your +editwikinames page and try to get rid of your ubuntu wikiname
<kiko> sure
<salgado> I tried already but I didn't manage to remove it
<salgado> SteveA, ping?
<SteveA> hi
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/people/kiko/+editwikinames
<kiko> salgado, 505 for me too.
<kiko> err 500.
<salgado> SteveA, have you seen BjornT's questions in his review of my basic-voting branch?
<salgado> kiko, did you ever went to that page or changed your wikiname using the old one?
<kiko> nope
<kiko> never
<kiko> or hmmm
<kiko> actually
<SteveA> salgado: i don't think so.  can you tell me the subject of the emails?
<kiko> I once told the ubuntu wiki to disable my account forever
<salgado> SteveA, REVIEW: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com/launchpad--basic-voting--1
* salgado does the same
<mpt> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> salgado, BjornT: in launchpad, we're deliberately going against what tim peters says about using 'assert' statements.  That's described pretty well in AssertionsInLaunchpad.
<kiko> lifeless, ddaa, ping?
<salgado> kiko, when you disabled your account in the ubuntu wiki?
<kiko> salgado, a month ago +/-
<salgado> I disabled mine but I still can see my ubuntu wikiname in launchpad
<salgado> I can't login on the ubuntu wiki, though
<kiko> I filed that bug on spiv
<salgado> what bug #?
<SteveA> kiko: send spiv a reminder email to look at his bugs
<kiko> will do
<sladen> kiko: ack.
<kiko> thanks sladen 
<sladen> kiko: while you're doing funny things 'mdz' exists and so does 'mdzex'  the form works and the latter doesn't ...depending on the context
<kiko> sladen, sorry -- can you rephrase that?
<sladen> kiko: /people/mdz /people/mdzex
<sladen> kiko: funny things ...with user tables
<kiko> how did you find mdzex?
<kiko> sladen, I couldn't find mdzex by searching through /people..
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2411. (patch-2434: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<sivang> kiko: ah nice, I see that the specification is now being used, can I then go and use it as well?
<kiko> sivang, there are some malone specs up -- are you talking about ubz planning?
<kiko> sladen?
<sivang> kiko: yes
<kiko> sivang, sorry, too overwhelmed today, maybe chat tomorrow on the subject
<sivang> kiko: sure no prob
<sivang> kiko: gazillio thanks whatsoever
<kiko> nah, enjoy
<kiko> salgado, ask for the cherry-pick
<bradb> anyone: with an up-to-date rf tree does http://localhost:8086/products/ubuntu/+bugs appear very screwed up to you?
<mpt> bradb: Looks fine for me, but then I've fixed the layout in this branch
<mpt> It's not using floats no more
<sladen> kiko: https://launchpad.net/people/techboard  the first links to exmdz  (which my brain is telling me /was/ mdzex)
<kiko> oh!
<sladen> kiko: and following that to https://launchpad.net/people/exmdz goes foobar
<kiko> aha
<salgado> exmdz is a merged account. it shouldn't never show up on Launchpad. in this case it does because team memberships weren't transfered when mdz merged accounts
* mpt signs up to Launchpad as exparrot
<kiko> salgado, did we not fix the existing data?
<salgado> kiko, no, we didn't
<bradb> mpt: Hm, maybe that'll improve what I see: the actions portlet's head is chopped off and the "status" and "target" columns are appearing inside the bug lists portlet
<kiko> salgado, possible?
<salgado> kiko, yes, it's possible but I'm not sure how hard
<sladen> do foaf bugs go under launchpad?
<kiko> sladen, yes.
<kiko> salgado, file a bug, then, because it's an issue that will persist for a while (since users can't fix it themselves)
<mpt> bradb: the rightmost columns have always slid underneath the portlet, but that's now fixed
<bradb> here there right inside it. never seen that before
<kiko> salgado, interesting thing about bug 1576 is that there is no longer a way to view svaksha's Wiki link anylonger, right?
<bradb> s/there/they're/
<salgado> kiko, yes. it's the same with yours. you guys have no wikinames in the database
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2376. (patch-2435: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<kiko> salgado just keeps landing them
<salgado> you said it man
<jordi> YOU SAY
<mpt> WHAT YOU SAY
<bradb> mpt: Can we deboldify messages in portalMessage?
<mpt> bradb: please :-)
<bradb> i'll tweak it here
<bradb> well, just deboldify anyway
<bradb> mpt: unless someone specifically said we can't? :)
<mpt> Not yet
<bradb> ok, cool
<mpt> In the "Undo bugs in plone.css" part of launchpad.css, .portalMessage {font-weight: normal;}
<lifeless> SteveA: you need it in resume for hibernate, vberestore doesn't restore it AIUI
<lifeless> kiko: pong
<bradb> mpt: Nice. I feel much less humliated now when Launchpad shows me a notification message. (I changed it here like you said.)
<kiko> lifeless, I committed a change together with an RF merge -- mistake or sin?
<lifeless> doesn't really matter
<kiko> wasn't that considered "bad"?
<lifeless> its not ideal
<lifeless> and for replay purposes it sucks. 
<lifeless> i.e it can't be easily cherry picked to production
<kiko> yes, that I imagined.
<ddaa> lifeless: ho, still around?
<ddaa> samba update: fixed previous bug, found new one.
<ddaa> svn allows you to add and (actually copy) and patch a file in the same revision
<ddaa>    A /trunk/packaging/Debian/debian-stable (from /branches/SAMBA_3_0/packaging/Debian/debian-stable:731)
<ddaa>    M /trunk/packaging/Debian/debian-stable/rules
<ddaa> I'm thinking of maintaining a dict of path->(oldpath, oldrev) in ChangesIterator, populated by recursive copying change, and used to tell PatchedFile about a dislocated ancestry if necessary.
<ddaa> Also, ubuntu-doc is failed because it contains an "R" change, that is "Replaced".
<lifeless> garh
<lifeless> good work
<lifeless> keep at it
<ddaa> any better idea for the dislocated ancestry problem?
<lifeless> nup
<lifeless> other than taking the freaking svn devs out and shooting them
<ddaa> please confirm that ChangesIterator is local to a revision.
<lifeless> changesiterator iterates changes within a revision
<lifeless> or more precisely from rev N-1 to rev-N
* lifeless waves hands
<ddaa> lifeless: past experience shows that, although that is a satisfying procedure, it is ineffective to fix bugs in deployed code.
<ddaa> * for fixing bugs
<lifeless> I liked your first statement more
<ddaa> is my Vulcan speak improving :)
<ddaa> okay, will add more ga'r to cscvs, then
<mpt> kiko: Do you know what's the point of having hackergotchi + emblem for both people and teams, rather than just hackergotchi for people and emblems for teams?
<kiko> mpt, isn't there an arcane theory that emblems are special?
<mpt> kiko: Yes, I thought they were special to teams
<mpt> so if you were a member of a team with an emblem, you got that emblem
<kiko> not quite sure
<mpt> you couldn't fake it yourself
<mpt> ok, I'm homeward
<kiko> salgado_sis or salgado_nv? :)
<salgado> nv
<Kinnison> ciao dudes
* Kinnison heads off for the night
<sivang> night all
<sivang> bye Kinnison 
<salgado> BjornT, ping?
#launchpad 2005-09-25
<kiko> bradb, ping?
<bradb> kiko: hi
<kiko> bradb, any clue why me, a launchpad admin, can't edit task 268?
<bradb> kiko: Malone doesn't know what admins are, yet.
<kiko> isn't that a trivial fix?
<bradb> it's about an hour or two's work, I think
<bradb> tests will break and/or need to be added, possibly
<kiko> hmmm
<bradb> I can do it soon, but since I've already lost a full day to conflict resolution on the URLs branch, that's all that I worked on today. I should be able to land it later in the day tomorrow.
<kiko> okay, gret
<kiko> that currently hampers me from properly triaging older bugs
<bradb> I've also still got the From/Reply-To patch in the queue, right behind the URLs fix. I've also got the form error message derobotization fix in the queue behind both of those.
<kiko> heh
<kiko> did Keybuk look at your patch?
<bradb> yes, small header addition (+ tests, of course) needed for RFC compliance
<kiko> ah, wonderful. he's a star
<Keybuk> the second one on the left, and on til' morning
<Nafallo> salgado: care to mark up the bug as NOTABUG and stuff? :-)
<salgado> Nafallo, I haven't done so because we still can allow team admins to change their own membership's expiry date if the date is prior to the existing expiry date
<salgado> although I'm not sure if that would be useful
<Nafallo> hmm, with a check to see if there is more admins in that team? :-)
<salgado> sorry, why would we need to check if there's more admins?
<Nafallo> if you are the last admin you shouldn't be able to expire yourself?
<salgado> I don't think that's a problem
<salgado> the owner retain his rights over the team even if he's not a member
<Nafallo> yea, that's true. and I gave away the ownership before I tried to change the expiry date ;-)
<salgado> heh
<Nafallo> but it's better that way anyway. I'm admin for the LoCo and the other admin is a translator herself :-)
<Nafallo> she would be the right owner of the team :-)
<salgado> and there's also the launchpad admins for the help, if needed
<salgado> anyway. gotta go. see you guys
<Nafallo> yea :-). this channel rocks :-).
<Nafallo> well, THAT was a quick quit :-P
* cprov see you later
<Kinnison> spiv: ping?
<spiv> Kinnison: pong
<spiv> I'm just heading out the door to visit lifeless
<kiko-zzz> wtf is my merge
<Kinnison> spiv: when you get a moment can you make sure you update me on the state of the publishing review?
<Kinnison> spiv: I sent you a mail about it last week and haven't heard anything
<Kinnison> it's now 02:04 and I'm off to bed
* Kinnison sets off a mirror and locks his screen
<Kinnison> ciao
<spiv> Ok, I'll look for that.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Tests and a fix for URLs trailed with semi-colons; a bit trickier than one might expect. (patch-2436: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<jhemgel> hi
<jhemgel> to those who chating here
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--production--1.33: Cherry pick patch-2434 into production 1.33 (patch-4: rocketfuel@canonical.com, guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Add production db patch into rocketfuel (patch-2437: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: add request timeout code to database adapter, r=SteveA (patch-2438: james.henstridge@canonical.com)
<mpool> hi?
<mpool> in malone, when i'm looking at a bug
<mpool> e.g.
<mpool> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2350
<mpool> it is not very obvious how i can navigate to other bugs in that product
<mpool> shouldn't there be a way?
<bob2> I reported that the other day
<BjornT> mpool: yes, that's a problem. it will be fixed soon. for now, you can click on 'upstream bzr', and then you'll see a portlet to the right with "View bug reports for Bazaar-NG"
<mpool> thanks BjornT 
<mpool> it's looking really good btw
<jblack> Just in case nobody knows, it looks like launchpad is down.
<stub> Yup - I'm upgrading
<Burgundavia> jblack, I had an idea about patch management and pqm
<jblack> Burgundavia: Whats on your mind? 
<Burgundavia> jblack, basically my thought was on the workflow of users who we don't want to just be able to commit when we switch to baz
<Burgundavia> s/we/the doc team
<jblack> That shouldn't be a problem. Just don't give them pqm access.
<Burgundavia> but we need a nice way of submitting and accepting patchers
<Burgundavia> patches
<Burgundavia> the mailing list works, but hey, lets go beyond just works
<jblack> Ok. I'm with you so far. 
<jblack> In Baz-NG, there's a wiki page. Other projects tend towards keeping merge requests as open bugs. 
<Burgundavia> basically the ubuntudoc script that we talked about would push their patch upto a place where they can viewed in a queue, sort of liek the mailman accept/reject mail inteface (but nicer)
<Burgundavia> have you seen what the MOTU's are doing with REVU?
<jblack> No, I haven't seen that yet.
<jblack> Sounds like a good idea, actually. Just needs somebody to write it.
<Burgundavia> it would be a killer feature for those switching away from svn/cvs
<jblack> There's a bzr webserver plugin too, which should cut out some of the slack.
<Burgundavia> removes some of the scary distributed stuff
<stub> spiv: I just upgraded launchpad and realized we will need to upgrade the librarian too (?)
<jblack> burgundavia: Would you be interested in writing a spec for it? 
<bob2> hahahaha
<Burgundavia> jblack, yes I can do that
<Burgundavia> jbailey, PatchWebQueue ?
<jblack> Cool. There's a page at http://bazaar.canonical.com/BzrRequests that has pretty good examples of what to do
<stub> Launchpad is back up
<spiv> stub: Hmm, will we?
<spiv> stub: There are schema changes affecting it..?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  tweak config schema due to ZConfig issues on emperor (patch-2439: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<Burgundavia> jbailey, the the bzr wiki, it uses lp login?
<stub> spiv: The logging-exceptions-to-librarian code is out, which needs the fixes I made
<spiv> Aah.
<stub> spiv: (assuming that hasn't already gone out)
<spiv> Ok, I'll do that.
<spiv> I don't think it has.
<stub> Ta. I'm not sure how you are rolling it out and can't be arsed setting up the keys for my way again ;)
<spiv> I'm rolling it out with far too much manual effort :/
<jblack> burgundavia: You mean this jbailey? 
<Burgundavia> jblack, grr, yes
<jblack> I believe it has its own credentials. 
<jblack> But I'm not sure on that
<spiv> Yeah, I think that's right.
<spiv> Compare the login page to the Ubuntu wiki.
<Burgundavia> it looks liek it
<Burgundavia> grr
<Burgundavia> jblack, http://bazaar.canonical.com/BzrRequestPatchWebQueue
<SteveA> hi
<SteveA> stub, spiv, jamesh: i want to do some work on the error handling in launchpad this morning
<SteveA> stub: kiko said you'd put something there that stores traceback data in the librarian
<spiv> stub: the new librarian is up.
<jamesh> SteveA: okay.  Anything in particular?
<SteveA> any ideas on what best to do?
<SteveA> i was thinking of making tracebacks go into a directory structure on the filesystem
<SteveA> and having a configurable notification by email
<SteveA> i don't like the idea of putting them in the librarian
<jamesh> SteveA: btw, the request timeout branch passed PQM and is in rocketfuel now
<SteveA> because that involves other systems, and a database transaction, inside an error handler
<SteveA> thanks jamesh.  i
<SteveA> 'll add the publisher parts.
<SteveA> stub: what's happening with cherrypicking for shipit?
<jamesh> SteveA: so this would involve a custom IErrorReportingService?
<spiv> SteveA: FWIW, there's no database transaction inside the error handler, it uses librarian server-side transactions.
<SteveA> jamesh: actually no.  i would get rid of the error reporting service, and put this directly in the publisher, to be factored out as an event handler later.
<SteveA> the publisher's error handling code is too complex.
<SteveA> spiv: i see. even so, i'm not wild about depending on a system that has many of the same system dependencies for error reporting.
<spiv> I agree that error handling should be simple.  Just letting you know :)
<stub> SteveA: For scripts, exceptions now get stored in the librarian and a link outputted instead of the full traceback
<jamesh> SteveA: so the plan would be to add the appropriate notify() call to handleException in canonical/publication.py, and have some new code handle things from there?
<jamesh> SteveA: would we want to keep the web frontend for viewing exceptions?
<stub> SteveA: For error handling in Launchpad, I was thinking of looking into how the Z3 logging is put together. If it is using the standard Python logging modules we can configure it to do what we want. eg. buffer exceptions in ram and email them out every 30 minutes could be done with components from the standard library.
<stub> Sticking tracebacks in the librarian is good because we get garbage collection for free
<stub> And a UI for downloading them for free
<stub> Have a look at lib/canonical/launchpad/scripts/logger.py - the librarian storage is done just using a Formatter we register with the Python logging system
<jamesh> I'm not actually sure what's so complicated about the IErrorReportingService -- it looks like it would be quite easy to do a different implementation that stored the exceptions to disk with the existing interface
<jamesh> and would drop right in
<SteveA> for one thing, the entire concept of a "service" is going away when we upgrade zope
<jamesh> ah.
<SteveA> we can still use the same interface
<jamesh> I was thinking it would be good to use the same interface in case there were other cases where it was used to log exceptions
<SteveA> there aren't.  it's just a plug-in to the publication component.
<SteveA> and the publication component plugs into the publisher
<SteveA> but it's all more complex than it should be
<stub> If we log exceptions to email, there is no need to provide a second interface through the publisher.
<stub> pipermail becomes our UI
<SteveA> you mean "user interface" ?
<stub> Yes.
<jamesh> stub: what I'd like would be if the Launchpad error page included a token people could include in their bug reports
<SteveA> i'd like that too
<jamesh> so we could look up the error afterwards
<jamesh> that sort of thing is a lot easier with a web interface
<SteveA> i think that's documented in a spec somewhere...
<stub> Sure. We have the content id and alias id we stored in the librarian
<jamesh> (this doesn't preclude sending tracebacks by email too)
<SteveA> we can stick the content id and alias id into Diceware
<SteveA> and make some words for the user to remember
<SteveA> like "your error code is: dayglo fishcake"
<stub> (actually, we only need the contentid to look up the exception url)
<stub> erm... aliasid
<jamesh> are exceptions considered private?
<jamesh> if so, then is sticking them in the librarian a good idea?
<stub> Yes. Users cannot access them if they know just the aliasid or the contentid - they also need the secret
<stub> (which is the filename in our case)
<sivang> morning all!
<SteveA> hi
<SteveA> so, what do we have so far?
<SteveA> when there's an error, the error reporting service or some equivalent puts together a blob of traceback and diagnostic data and throws it at the librarian.
<SteveA> it also throws a randomly generated filename at the librarian.  the librarian returns with its aliasid.
<SteveA> the aliasid is presented to the user as the "error code" or some such
<SteveA> agreed so far?
<stub> Sounds fine. Existing code handles that except for getting the aliasid back to the caller (which I don't think fits into the standard Python logging stoof, so we might need to bypass that)
<SteveA> i didn't mention logging above
<SteveA> okay, there's another requirement
<stub> We should also take this opertunity to email the exception to a list somewhere, or store the url in a file and a cronjob emails them regularly
<SteveA> we get lots of 404 errors. sometimes these are interesting.  often they are not.
<SteveA> we're interested in the "Referer" header
<SteveA> we want these to be categorized as separate from the other errors
<stub> Yer... 404 will need special handling. Possibly a daily report.
<SteveA> is there any reason not to use the same "stick it in the librarian" handling?
<SteveA> or is that just unnecessary
<jamesh> we currently get the referer from the environment passed to the request
<stub> Oh - stick in the librarian, sure. But the report *we* see needs to be readable.
<SteveA> right, getting the referer is no problem
<SteveA> so, for every error we want to generate three things:
<SteveA>  - blob for the librarian
<SteveA>  - human readable email text
<SteveA>  - email subject line
<SteveA> can mailman topic gather the 404s together?
<stub> If we just store a csv file or something of code, url then a cronjob can format that anyway it wants and provide a daily report.
<stub> No - mailman cannot do that. We need to handle this ourselves.
<SteveA> i'd be happy sticking 404s in the actual databae
<SteveA> as they aren't really a random crashing error
<stub> We could stick all the exceptions in the database if you want, but it makes things more compliated because of the transaction handling involved.
<jamesh> it looks like a bunch of the recent 404's are from googlebot
<SteveA> so, user agent is important too
<SteveA> i don't want to put crashes into the database.
<SteveA> 404s i don't mind.
<jamesh> looking for things that used to exist but don't now
<SteveA> we don't need "error codes" for 404s
<SteveA> nor for forbidden
<stub> I think storing all the exceptions in a file (or one file per 'type') and a cronjob or two will be the simplest implementation.
<SteveA> so, no librarian?
<stub> Yes, librarian. Change 'storing all the exceptions' to 'storing the urls to the exceptions'
<SteveA> or do you mean store the "diagnostic blob" in the librarian
<SteveA> and store the metadata in files
<robitaille> is that normal that I cannot access the +edithackergotchi  of my own LP account?
<SteveA> i don't know -- the hackergotchi stuff hasn't been specced, so i don't know what it is meant to do.
<jamesh> robitaille: sounds like a bug
<SteveA> jamesh: would you like to take on fixing it?
<jamesh> SteveA: yeah.  Just switching my tree to check it
<SteveA> cheers
<SteveA> looks like it's lacking a system doc or page test
<stub> Exceptions are stuffed in the Librarian. The id is returned to the user.
<stub> The exception is classified, and interesting information about it stored in a simply formatted file (referrer_id, exception url, logged in username, whatever). One file per classification please.
<stub> cronjobs run assembling reports from the files. Interesting types might be run every 60 seconds, 404 report run daily.
<stub> todo: if a bug is linked to an exception, we should ensure that exception does not expire from the library. 
<SteveA> how do you mean "bug is linked to an exception" ?
<SteveA> you mean if we have a link to the librarian, including secret, in the body of a malone bug?
<stub> No - the exception token we discussed before.
<SteveA> i see
<SteveA> how does a launchpad developer see the token + secret?  it is emailed out?
<stub> If it is just included as text in the bug comment, then the default expiry for the traceback stored in the librarian will be unaffected so it will be removed after time (although what that timeout is has not been defined yet).
<stub> If there is a real link between the bug and the libraryfilealias, the bug ui would display the url to admins. But that is very launchpad specific behavior to encode in Malone. So this is where my ideas are breaking down.
<jamesh> hmm
<jamesh> +edithackergotchi requires launchpad.Admin ...
<SteveA> jamesh: yes, saw that during menus work
<SteveA> jamesh: that's what i meant by "there is no spec, so i have no clue what it should do"
<stub> It is possibly protected because Mark has more stuff he wants to do on it. Perhaps the image size constraints are not done.
<jamesh> stub: there are image size checks (both dimensions and file size)
<carlos> morning
<stub> yo
<jamesh> looks like the issues with the interface and database classes are still unresolved in what Mark checked in
<SteveA> what are the issues?
<jamesh> the added field definitions reflect the data entry schemas rather than what the database classes implement
<SteveA> we should always have a test that a database instance verifies against the interfaces it provides
<SteveA> if it does not verify, that's a bug
<jamesh> e.g. IPerson.hackergotchi is of type Bytes, and has a validator that checks that the data is a valid image
<jamesh> while the database class's Person.hackergotchi is a foreign key into the LibraryFileAlias table
<SteveA> sounds like it should be a LibrarianFile field rather than a Bytes field
<jamesh> yeah
<SteveA> and we make LibrarianFile mean "Bytes, and it's a foreign key in launchpad"
<jamesh> the data entry form should be using a browser-specific schema
<SteveA> i don't think that's necessary
<SteveA> if we make a suitable field available
<jamesh> well, there were a few other issues like that
<SteveA> if they're just like that, then we just need some more specific or richer fields to use to describe the database classes.
<stub> Because Mark used the database/interface.py interface for generating forms rather than creating a schema specific to the form he wanted, possibly.
<jamesh> the IBugCve using Int field types when the database class uses ForeignKeys
<jamesh> stub: that's the issue at hand
<jamesh> that interface is used to generate the +linkbug form, which has a bug number entry field
<SteveA> i think we just need a Field that describes this situation
<SteveA> stub: is there already a spec on improved error reporting, or do i need to create one?
<stub> SteveA: Nothing yet. I've just been thinking about it a bit because of the work I did to make the script logging a bit saner
<SteveA> stub: i'll stick the outcomes of this morning's conversation on a wiki page
<SteveA> stub: what's happening with shipit ?
<stub> I'm not involved in the shipit stuff except for the occasional email that flys past my mailbox. I don't know what is happening.
<SteveA> there's a fix to the "country" issue you found
<SteveA> salgado made the fix
<SteveA> you're cherrypicking it into production
<stub> ok.
<SteveA> then i'm getting elmo/karl to do the vhosting magic
<SteveA> so, i need to know when it is picked and running again
<stub> I think I did... hang on.
<stub> Yes - it is already rolled out. I've replied to that email which I hadn't done yet.
<stub> My order now says 'Australia'
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> i'll get with the admins
<Luna-Tick> Hello all :)
<Luna-Tick> Whenever I come in here there doesn't seem to be anyone who responds...
<bob2> indeed
<Luna-Tick> Why hello bob
<Luna-Tick> Well, bob, I guess that I will tell you my ideas....
<Luna-Tick> and the others can read it if they come back
<Luna-Tick> Two quick things:
<Luna-Tick> 1) it seems really odd that Launchpad is this incredibly comprehensive end-to-end solution, but enhancements to it are in a wiki
<Luna-Tick> on that point; enhancement requests are really quite poorly handled at this stage - I can't figure out if I am meant to file a normal bug for them or what...
<Kinnison> There are various camps on that point
<Luna-Tick> Oh?
<bob2> there were long long discussions about that
<Kinnison> E.g. the "It's a bug if the feature isn't implemented" camp
<bob2> (amen!)
<Luna-Tick> Right.... 
<Kinnison> And the "It's a spec needing implementing" camp
<Kinnison> And the "It's a support request which needs to be resolved" camp
<Luna-Tick> It is quite confusing for people who are looking for it
<bob2> yes
<Kinnison> I don't believe we have a best-practice method yet
<Kinnison> So yes, quite confusing
<Luna-Tick> Even if there was an 'enhancement' category in the priority like bugzilla
<bob2> Luna-Tick: people argued against that
<Luna-Tick> ah
<Luna-Tick> Well, that is fair, I never liked that
<Luna-Tick> They seem quite different... all the boxes are wrong etc. square peg, round hole
<Luna-Tick> When there is such a powerful system, it seems a bit of a missing thing... but if you have all talked about it, that is fair
<Luna-Tick> It would be nice, however, if there were enhancements which could turn into bounties by someone putting money on them etc.
<Luna-Tick> and on that note, it would be great to be able to combine bounties.
<Luna-Tick> So that I could add my measly $10 to a bounty
<Luna-Tick> or I could come up with a great idea and someone who wasn't a starving student could put money on it
<Luna-Tick> For smaller bounties, Ubuntu could take paypal or credit cards etc (passing on the fee) and keep the amounts in trust (earning interest) until time elapsed or the bounty was done
<Luna-Tick> But I am very glad to see that they have a bounty thing at all - a real step in the right direction.
<Luna-Tick> Anyway, the reason that I came on here is because I was thinking about your Karma system and how it related to duplicate bugs
<Luna-Tick> and it occurred to me that in practice, people choose the best of the bugs and dupe the worst, even if the 'duped' one was filed first
<SteveA> stub: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/ErrorReportManagement
<Luna-Tick> So what I was going to suggest was that the system only take Karma away if your bug was duped against a bug which was filed before yours
<Luna-Tick> Steve: how is that stub relevant?
<SteveA> Luna-Tick: i don't understand your question.
<Luna-Tick> Oh... it wasn't connected to what I was saying>
<SteveA> yep.
<Luna-Tick> Okay. Well, I have had my little rant at the world. Hopefully someone agreed, disagreed or at least vaguely pretended to care.
<SteveA> "stub" is stuart on irc.
<SteveA> i'm telling him about a spec i just braindumped.
<Luna-Tick> Ah! I thought you meant that the wiki page was a stup
<Luna-Tick> stub
<Luna-Tick> Sorry
<SteveA> no worries
<Luna-Tick> Okay... Well... I guess that everyone is too busy working on Ubuntu for chit-chat
<Luna-Tick> But thanks for your time
<Luna-Tick> Ciao
<SteveA> stub: what were we going to do about canonical.encoding.guess ?
<Kinnison> hey spiv
<spiv> Hey.
<stub> SteveA: raise an exception if it doesn't break tests (or the callsites are trivial fixes)
<SteveA> the only warning is being raised from its own test
<SteveA> so, no tests broken
* carlos -> out
<carlos> see you later
* Kinnison pokes gina
<Kinnison> stub: It seems that if a section of gina's config has source_only set then gina -a stops after that section
<stub> Sounds like a bug
<stub> I've just submitted a bug report
<Kinnison> cool
<Kinnison> filing bugs with PGP/MIME seems a bit fraught
<stub> If you mean the 'This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156)' garbage, I committed a fix for that earlier today
<Kinnison> coolio
<ddaa> lifeless: help!
<ddaa> psvn is killing my puppies!
<ddaa> lifeless: so, psvn.Client.ls return a list of dicts, with a 'name' key, whose value is: "string - name of the file", is that a base name, a relative name, relative to what?
<ddaa> okay... found it... it's a url...
<ddaa> I guess it's an absolute path for some stupid value of absolute...
<lifeless> ddaa: its crack, sometimes you get rel paths, sometimes abs url, and it isn't consistent trhough out the api
<ddaa> I'm trying to change filterOutsidepath to work in absolute paths
<ddaa> so it can be used for filtering listing from other branches
<ddaa> (BTW, I realised that my implement of recursive merging is wrong, because I'd bet you can A /foo and D /foo/bar in the same changeset)
<ddaa> so I was trying to add a "svnpath" method to Change and Source
<ddaa> but it looks like the plumbing is not there...
<ddaa> maybe I should use url() instead, then
<ddaa> lifeless: any suggestion?
* ddaa -> lunch, hopefully he'll be better able to make vaguely grammatically correct sentences after that
<lifeless> ddaa: there is examples of such already
<lifeless> ddaa: but I couldn't get svn to give me stable references
<lifeless> ddaa: so each one is essentially special cased.
<lifeless> -> I hate svns library.
<lifeless> look in Change, it has the basic plumbing that the others build on
<ddaa> that's what I was looking at
<ddaa> I had little trouble to write Change.svnpath
<ddaa> but Source does not have the necessary information there
<ddaa> (in Change, it's just return self.log['path'] )
<ddaa> nevermind, I'll just work with url()
* ddaa -> lunch, really
* Kinnison lunches, bbl
<ddaa> lifeless: BTW, did you find natural occurences of SVN logs not being in the right order?
<ddaa> my feeling is that svn code is lacking in abstraction
<ddaa> at bit like CVS code (unsurprisingly)
<ddaa> so I expect the log to be prepared to be processed by dumb client logic
<ddaa> a bit in the way a cvs client is mostly an interpreter for CVS server messages
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders
<niemeyer> Good morning! :-)
<sivang> morning mpt
<sivang> mpt: maybe you can say "Launchpad Lovers" ;)
<mpt> "Launchpad Lovers" is so yesterday
<niemeyer> Nice piece of code: http://www.thedailywtf.com/forums/43223/ShowPost.aspx
<niemeyer> :)
<mpt> (2005-09-19 09:09:56) <mpt> Good morning Launchpad lovers
<sivang> mpt: lol
<sivang> niemeyer: I can't believe something like that is used in real production environments ;)
<sivang> niemeyer: what if the catch expection mechanism has some kind of bug? is someone ready to find it out on a proudction site ? ;-)
<ddaa> interestingly, a similar pattern is recommended in Python for quick dictionnary lookups where the key may not be present.
<ddaa> But it's probably only because Python performance sucks so badly.
* cprov cprov-afk
<sivang> ddaa: well, but there you really don't know if the key is present, in the mentioned code, it's a incermental iteration with a loop variable :)
<ddaa> sivang: well, sure seems like it's not the Right Way to do it, but it does not make me feel WTF.
<sivang> ddaa: hehe
<ddaa> Maybe I've been working on version control for too long.
<ddaa> There are some pretty massive WTF in this area.
<ddaa> e.g. WTF? Using _hashes_ are _ids_?
<ddaa> or WTF? committing to branch B makes a checkout of A out of date?
<ddaa> or WTF? You can checkout a tree from your own archive and be unable to commit to it?
<niemeyer> sivang: Frightening isn't it? 8)
* sivang shivers. (Brrrr))
<ddaa> or WTF? You cannot parse a log sequence a log entry copy-pasted another log entry?
<ddaa> etc. etc. etc.
<sivang> OMG
* sivang wonders what leads to such
<ddaa> respectively: Monotone/git/mercurial, subversion, tla, cvs
<mpt> SteveA: ping
<bob2> svn appears to not update the tree after you commit
<ddaa> bob2: why would it? it's already updated since you made the changes before committing?
<salgado> elmo, around?
<SteveA> mpt: pong
<mpt> SteveA: Did you land mpt@canonical.com/launchpad--spec-tracker--0509? I didn't, but it's showing up on jamesh's page as merged
<SteveA> i didn't land it
<SteveA> i merged it into my own branch
<SteveA> oh
<SteveA> spec-tracker
<SteveA> yeah, i merged it
<mpt> ok, thanks
<SteveA> i merged it into my own branch, and merged that into RF
<SteveA> i read 'spec-tracker' as 'menus' for some reason
<mpt> SteveA: Ok for me to keep adding menus today, and putting them up on PendingReviews if you land the existing ones first?
<SteveA> i'll review any menus you add
<SteveA> so, you can keep doing them, and put them in my queue on PendingReviews
<SteveA> did you see the change i made to main_template.pt ?
<SteveA> to put the portlets under the menus?
<SteveA> i want to make sure you're happy with the UI on my branch / your branch with mine merged
<SteveA> then i'll get my branch merged
<SteveA> and reviewed by someone else
<ddaa> Eeeeew!
<ddaa> newname = os.path.join(destdir, os.path.dirname(filename),
<ddaa>                                ",,new.%s.%s" % (random.random(), os.path.basename(filename)))
<ddaa> like there is no such thing as mkstemp...
<mpt> SteveA: That results in the context menu appearing under the application menu
<SteveA> only when we have not yet converted things to use menus
<mpt> e.g. http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/+tickets and http://localhost:8086/distros/ubuntu/+bounties
<ddaa> (domain specific knowledge tells that it's actually safe, besides appearances)
<SteveA> mpt: basically, i don't think it matters if we land all the important menus before thursday
<mpt> ok
<Kinnison> elmo: ping?
<mpt> SteveA: Will you be able to make menu items markup-savvy before Thursday?
<SteveA> i'll look into it
<SteveA> should be doable
<mpt> SteveA: I have a question about permissions now
<mpt> for "Change Admin", distrorelease-portlet-actions.pt has tal:condition="context/required:launchpad.Edit"
<mpt> why is that .Edit and not .Admin?
<SteveA> what permission does the page the link leads to require?
<mpt> I can't tell
<mpt> it's not in the zcml
<mpt> nor in the .pt
<SteveA> so, in zcml, is the page declared as public?
<SteveA> anyway, i'd say leave it the same, but leave a comment in the menus code querying it
<mpt> SteveA: Yes, they both have permission="launchpad.Edit"
<SteveA> then, that's why it is launchpad.Edit in the menu
<mpt> but it obviously works correctly, because even logged in as myself I can't access the page on production
<mpt> Well, I understand why the TAL permission matches the ZCML permission :-)
<mpt> but I thought "Edit" meant just "you're logged in as anyone"
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> launchpad.Edit means "whatever we want 'edit' to mean in this context"
<kiko> right
<SteveA> launchpad.AnyPerson means "logged in as a Person"
<SteveA> although, that'll be changed a bit when i get around to finishing some more security work
<Kinnison> elmo: ping?
<elmo> Kinnison: yeah?
<Kinnison> elmo: I'm having troubles debootstrapping from a CAP published archive
<Kinnison> elmo: debootstrap complains that cpp, g++ and gcc can't be found
<salgado> elmo, PQM! can you kill it? :)
<Kinnison> is there anything special in jackass' apt config for all this?
<elmo> err, debian debootstrap or ubuntu debootstrap?
<Kinnison> ubuntu
<elmo> debian debootstrap uses Build-Essential: yes overrides which ubuntu doesn't have/do
<elmo> in that case, no
<Kinnison> 0.3.1.4ubuntu1
<elmo> salgado: done
<salgado> elmo, thanks!
<Kinnison> elmo: bizarre. I'll look. We have cpp-4.0 and similar
<SteveA> mpt: where do you want to use markup in menus?  just in the link.text, or anywhere else too?
<Kinnison> elmo: must be a gina import issue
<mpt> SteveA: Yes, just the link text ... There isn't anywhere else for markup to go
<Kinnison> elmo: We have gcc-defaults (source) imported
<mpt> title= attributes can't contain markup
<Kinnison> elmo: but none of its binaries
<elmo> ah
<elmo> gcc's a good candidate for gina being confused, as it's the most prominent example of binaries-with-a-different-version-than-the-source
<Kinnison> aye
<SteveA> mpt: okay, i'll do something to make markup work with link text.
<Kinnison> Package: gcc
<Kinnison> Version: 4:3.3.5-1
<Kinnison> Source: gcc-defaults (1.19)
<Kinnison> yeesh
<mpt> thanks SteveA
<Kinnison> very different indeed
<Kinnison> elmo: yeah, this looks like a "vastly different version -> gina confused" error
* Kinnison tries to find a smallfix
<elmo> Kinnison: btw, not being funny, but have you tried plain old diff of CAP vs. OldSKOOL Packages + Sources yet?
<Kinnison> Not yet 'cos I wasn't sure it'd work right. does apt-ftparchive give a stable ordering?
<Kinnison> I guess a grep of Package: | sort => diff would give a good start
<elmo> no, we do that by enforcing stable ordering in jenna
<elmo> (apparently sorting was too expensive for apt-ftparchive to implement ... ?!)
<Kinnison> Oh right
<Kinnison> so I should sort the overrides list by package name first?
<elmo> I would, yeah
<Kinnison> Okay, I'll drop that in at some point
* Kinnison wants to fix gina first
* mpt wonders what that ( !! ) speech bubble is doing in the bug fix requests table
<bradb> mpt: :(
<bradb> mpt: the sab gave specific orders not to touch that table from now on before 1.0 either
<SteveA> mpt: does your text editor show trailing whitespace?
<ddaa> emacs: M-x set-variable ENTER show-trailing-whitespace ENTER t ENTER
* kiko throws niemeyer an ubuntu CD
<ddaa> causality?
<mpt> SteveA: no
<SteveA> mpt: what editor do you use?
<mpt> gedit
<mpt> Why do you ask?
<SteveA> a programmers' editor should show trailing whitespace, so you don't check it in ;-)
<mpt> oh
<SteveA> also, an editor should show you when you go over 80 chars on a line
<mpt> Yes, my window's 80 characters wide, so that's easy
<SteveA> well, i just shortened a long line you checked in
<SteveA> i'm doing a pre-review of our menus landing
<mpt> I just finished adding distrorelease menus
<Kinnison> mpt: ooh, for soyuz?
<mpt> now I'm doing pagetests
<mpt> Kinnison: If /distros/ubunty/hoary is "for soyuz", then sure :-)
<mpt> ubuntu, even
<Kinnison> mpt: shiny. Although be aware that /distros is being reworked by sabdfl
<mpt> Ubuntu -- the endlessly misspelled OS.
<mpt> Kinnison: Lemme guess, we're going to have /distro/foo/bar?
<Kinnison> Not a clue
<Kinnison> All I know is that at the end of last week he promised me a shiny new UI for soyuz
<Kinnison> and then he went on holiday
<kiko> salgado, you're live
<mpt> This is Launchpad, it can't be shiny
<salgado> kiko, just saw that. :)
<SteveA> mpt: when you add a closing bracket of some kind on a new line, do it one level of indentation in from where you've been doing it
<SteveA> so, 
* Kinnison tickles mpt
<SteveA> import ... (
<SteveA>    foo, bar, baz
<SteveA>     )
<SteveA> well, that was a space too far
<SteveA> but you get the idea
<Kinnison> I thought we used 4space indent
<mpt> SteveA: Why?
<Kinnison> mpt: style guide
<mpt> Ok, I'll do that in Python, but I won't do it in HTML/TAL, it would just make debugging unnecessarily difficult
<Kinnison> spiv: am I okay to merge publishing--2 ?
<spiv> Kinnison: Yep.
<Kinnison> spiv: thanks dude
<spiv> I haven't looked at the changes you said you made because they weren't mirrored, but they weren't huge and they were what I asked for, so I'm comfortable trusting you :)
* spiv -> really bed
<SteveA> mpt: it makes collapsing the code work properly in such editors, and also is a consistent style
<SteveA> mpt: also... don't use html markup in the text of links now.  instead, add an XXX comment with the desired markup, and use a markup-free alternative.
<SteveA> that way, things will work, and it is easy to grep the source for things that need to be changed when we have markup
<SteveA> the adding of markup will use a different API than you're using to add regular text 
<SteveA> so, it needs to be obvious where we have to change things.
<mpt> ok
<kiko> hey ddaa 
<kiko> say you have time to talk to me
<mpt> FAILED (errors=173)
<ddaa> kiko: in a few minutes please
<kiko> ddaa, wunderbar
<SteveA> mpt: update hct and sourcerer and all that
<salgado> kiko, something seems to be wrong in the redirects. try logging in
<SteveA> salgado: wrong where?
<kiko> is PQM jammed? elmo?
<kiko> I see 6 scripts there...
<salgado> SteveA, here I'm getting redirected to the old wiki's front page after logging in
<Kinnison> I see 5
<Kinnison> kiko: There *was* one from stu, from about 8 hours ago, but it's gone now
<salgado> kiko, it was
<SteveA> salgado:  you need to give more context, like maybe some specific urls
<SteveA> salgado: logging in to what?
<kiko> shipit
<salgado> SteveA, shipit
<kiko> ah
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Don't store MIME email epilogue and preambles (patch-2440: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<elmo> kiko: I killed it a couple of hours ago?
<SteveA> salgado: works for me
<SteveA> salgado: probably a temporary DNS issue
<salgado> I hope so
* salgado tries again
<kiko> elmo, maybe I'm seeing double -- I'll complain if it happens again
<salgado> SteveA, yes, it works now
<kiko> salgado, it's beautiful
<SteveA> elmo: what will happen about the certificate on shipit?
<salgado> and it has a lot of requests already
<elmo> SteveA: I can buy one, if it's important
<SteveA> seems slightly important to me.  i wonder what silbs thinks?
* SteveA asks
<kiko> it's very important IMO
<elmo> well, it'll mean using an IP for it, which is annoying
<kiko> yes, that's unavoidable
<ddaa> kiko: howzitgoin'?
<kiko> ddaa, spiffy but I need some bazzin
<kiko> should we use #bazaar or..?
<ddaa> would make sense
<SteveA> any reviewers around to do a simple code review?
<kiko> yes
<SteveA> dude!
<SteveA> i'll send you a diff
<SteveA> kiko: diff mailed
<kiko> thanks
<kiko> SteveA, you said it was simple?
<SteveA> it is
<SteveA> just long
<kiko> no such thing!
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Ensure specialized log handlers work for the root logger too (patch-2441: stuart.bishop@canonical.com)
<Seveas> How come I can't edit my own hackergotchi on lp?
<Seveas> Hmm, and wouldn't it be a bug of launchpad lists the teams someone is member of and then 'says' "$person is not an active member of any launcpad teams
<kiko> Seveas, no answer for the first, it's a bug for the second, and salgado will fix it AND ADD A TEST 
<Seveas> ok, just trying to help by reporting :)
* kiko passes on big hints to salgado 
<salgado> kiko, the second is on its way to pqm. it was caused because someone reverted my changes
<salgado> when solving conflicts
<SteveA> baz smash?
<kiko> salgado, tests added to ensure it's unsmashed for good?
<salgado> I can't easily add a test to check if something *is not* in the returning page
<salgado> in other words, this is tricky to test
<kiko> can't you test the view instead?
<SteveA> sure you can
<SteveA> the output of html() can be put into a variable
<SteveA> and you use 'text' in variable
<kiko> or 'text' not in variable
<SteveA> indeed
<SteveA> and then you can still use >>> variable
<SteveA> to do normal pagetest style matching later
<mpt> foo not in bar
<mpt> even I knew that!
<jbailey> bradb: Around?
<bradb> jbailey: yeah
<salgado> I'd prefer people were more careful when solving conflicts
<jbailey> bradb: I know I asked you before, but I don't remember the answer.  Does Malone offer an xml-rpc interface for reporting bugs?  At some point I have to point Ubuntu bug reporting tools to Malone, and I'm curious the Right Way of doing it.
<salgado> instead of having to write tests like this for everything
<bradb> jbailey: no xml-rpc yet, and possibly not for a while
<kiko> salgado, unfortunately, that we can't fix with code 
<jbailey> bradb: I think it's not a big deal for Breezy, but I suspect it will be critical for Dapper.
<salgado> and I don't think we can fix this either. I can add a test for an explicit tal:condition that was removed when solving conflicts, but what about the others?
<jbailey> bradb: (And sadly will need to be an interface that can live for 5 years)
<jbailey> bradb: Is there anything I can do to help plan for that?
<bradb> jbailey: we can probably BOF it at UBZ
<bradb> jbailey: An API that will last for five years though? Heh.
<jbailey> bradb: Yeah, sucky, but it has to be.
<jbailey> That's the lifetime of that release.
<bradb> Some effort may need to be focussed on how to deal with changes in the API, because this early on, it will happen.
<jbailey> And honestly, I'd be surprised if it wasn't extended to sometime longer than that for specialised applications.
<jbailey> Long lived releases in telcom often are 10years.
<bradb> Sure, I can see the reasoning. I think planning in advance for the fact that the API will change though would be a good idea.
<Kinnison> a five year api isn't hard to support so long as it doesn't contain security holes
<jbailey> bradb: Yup.
<jbailey> Even if it's just a "Her'es the version for the first throw-away API"
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2425. (patch-2442: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<Kinnison> the buildds negotiate their api at runtime
* Kinnison kicks mawson. GO MORE QUICKLY
<jbailey> Kinnison: Right, but you can generally expect that a buildd isn't older than a certain point.
<Kinnison> jbailey: indeed
<Kinnison> Either make every api call take a version, or allow for a negotiation of capabilities during the beginning of the connection or something
* Kinnison does a happy dance
<Kinnison> gcc-defaults' binary packages imported
<mpt> Kinnison: You mean something like the remote app asking Malone, "What fields does Malone want this month, and which of them are compulsory"?
<Kinnison> mpt: aye
<SteveA> for xmlrpc, just make the path to the service include an API version number
<Kinnison> mpt: If the remote app can build its UI with a few XML-RPC calls to malone then we change it over time
<Kinnison> mpt: E.g. what fields, what are compulsory, a description of the fields, etc can all be got over XML-RPC
<SteveA> sounds rather complex
<Kinnison> resilient though
<SteveA> simpler to have a fixed API at a particular version
<SteveA> and to be able to change versions
<Kinnison> but if malone grows a new compulsory field it makes that API obsolete/unusable
<SteveA> malone cannot grow a new compulsory field in that case
<Kinnison> hmm
<SteveA> or, if it does, and it is that important, then the client apps will have to say "get an updated version of me"
<jbailey> A dedicated URL for it makes the most sense.
<jbailey> Especially if you know from the outset that it's not going to be right, and in fact could be dramatically flawed.
<jbailey> And define one of the response codes to be "I'm sorry.  We no longer support Dapper" for when dapper expires. =)
<jbailey> After 5 years, all the calls can be stubbed to that. =)
<mpt> At the moment I think it'll be more likely Malone loses compulsory fields than gains them :-)
<Kinnison> anyone ever seen debootstrap say something like:
<Kinnison> E: Couldn't find these debs: 190227458
* mpt reminds kiko to review SimplifyingMalone
* bradb would like to make comment not be required on attachments
<bradb> the word of the day is: optional
<kiko-fud> bradb, you fought for that :-P though since they are not bound, just knock off the not null :-P
* SteveA responds to kiko's review
<bradb> kiko-fud: dude, what I fought for is nothing like what attachments UI/implementation is :)
<kiko-fud> we lost that battle, don't you remember?
<bradb> I think it would make more sense for a comment to be required if the attachment widget was part of the standard comment form
<bradb> kiko-fud: i'm reminded of that every day :)
* Kinnison pokes baz harder in the ribs
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Ensure specialized log handlers work for the root logger too (patch-2443)
<SteveA> kiko-fud, mpt, salgado-lunch: i replied to kiko's code review
<ddaa> holy crap :(
<ddaa> spent the whole day fixing my code to actually do what SVN means
<ddaa> only to realise that it just makes my work harder in the end, since SVN since to provide no mean to diff two different paths!
<ddaa> *sigh*
<Kinnison> can entries be removed from pqm's queue without being special?
<ddaa> most probably, no
<Kinnison> poo
* Kinnison shrugs
<SteveA> Kinnison: you can temporarily move your archive mirror ;-)
<Kinnison> no ta
<Kinnison> ciao all
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  externalsystem.py to properly handle Bugzilla < 2.17.1 (bz:bug_status used to be bz:status) (patch-2444: christian.reis@canonical.com)
<bradb> BjornT: I responded to the URL changes review.
* bradb goes for lunch, bbl
* bradb & # lunch
<BjornT> bradb: cool, i'll take a look at it soon
* mpt admires http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=site%3Alaunchpad.net
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: DI support and Release file support. r=spiv (patch-2445: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<jordi> hi
<jordi> I'll be ready for the meeting in ten minutes
<jordi> I've had a network problem and haven't been able to leave before
<jordi> see you rsn
<jordi> (for those intereste, we're supossed to discuss launchpad/rosetta advocacy)
<SteveA> kiko-fud: i'm not going to be getting email for a while -- some problem at the isp who deals with my email.
<kiko> jordi, ahoy
<jordi> ok
<jordi> I'm here.
<jordi> so, I wonder if there's enough people to do the meeting today or if we should postpone.
<jordi> jblack: ping
<kiko> I'm here but have a busted finger
<jordi> The key points of this are, I think, these:
<jordi> Rosetta advocacy: 1) How to do it. 2) Who should we target first. 3) Are we ready to do it *now*?
<jordi> kiko: if you think we need some other people to discss this, I'm happy to postpone or whatever.
<jordi> What happened to your finger?
<kiko> mountain bike crash
<jordi> aw
<kiko> carlos would be nice
<kiko> is he not around?
<jordi> he's marked away in jabber.
<kiko> sucks
<jordi> hmm. should we try some other time?
<kiko> jordi, yeah, probably. when is carlos available? he should be around..
<kiko> or hmm, maybe too late
<kiko> SteveA, I'm okay with your comments, there was nothing blocking landing there.
<kiko> mpt can fix up the text later
<SteveA> kiko: cool, thanks
<kiko> matsubara, bug 2112 is a dupe 
<kiko> matsubara, I suspect bug 2200 is too
<jordi> kiko, SteveA: tell me when's a good moment for this meeting.
<matsubara> i've seen. Neuman reported it at #1244
<SteveA> what meeting is this?
<jordi> any evening next week is suitable I think.
<jordi> SteveA: rosetta/lp advocacy.
<SteveA> oh
<kiko> matsubara, that bug is older, but yeah, he added a comment
<kiko> salgado, do you have time to talk a bit in 30m?
<SteveA> tomorrow is good for me if it isn't so late.  i have a meeting at 1700 UTC tomorrow.
<kiko> same here, I'm flexible
<kiko> I think carlos should be around for it
<salgado> kiko, yes, sure
<jordi> I think I have something big tomorrow evening.
<jordi> oh, yes. I have a meeting at the govt. offices.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Small fix so people accessing /shipit/myrequest instead of going first to /shipit and logging in get a 'Forbidden' page instead of a 'System Error' one. (patch-2446: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<jordi> and I wanted to stay at office just in case something last minute pops up, we release our second LliureX version tomorrow.
<jordi> thursday?
<SteveA> i can do thursday although i already have two meetings on that day.
<SteveA> so, yes, provided it isn't too late on thursday
<jordi> what's late?
<SteveA> 1700 UTC is getting late
<jordi> depending on how long you think it'll get, it could be ok for me
<jordi> oh, utc.
<jordi> that's super for me
<SteveA> so, if we finish by then, i'll be happy
<jordi> ok.
<jordi> let's set starting time 15:30, or 15:00 if you think 1.5h won't be enough
<carlos> kiko, jordi I'm around
<carlos> what's the subject of the meeting?
<jordi> carlos: promoting rosetta
<jordi> or, "jordi spams free software people"
<carlos> ;-)
<jordi> carlos: is thursday ok?
<carlos> here or #cm?
<carlos> oh, I thought it was now
<carlos> jordi, what time
<carlos> ?
<jordi> 15:00 or 15:30 utc, depending on how long you guys think it'll take.
<jordi> it's about "when to start doing it", "who to target" and "how to do it"
<jordi> probably talkingh about the "worst annoyances for users in rosetta" too.
* bradb returns
<carlos> jordi, it's ok for me
<jordi> ok
<carlos> kiko, I fixed the problem with the extra space
<carlos> kiko, with tests, I will prepare a new languagepack tonight
<kiko> carlos, really? was it in the wrapping code?
* ..[topic/#launchpad:jordi] : Discussion with Launchpad users and developers. || https://launchpad.net/ || Includes Rosetta and Malone. || Developers' meeting, Thursday 22 Sep, 12:00 UTC || Advocacy meeting, Thursday 22, 15:00 UTC
<carlos> kiko, yes
<carlos> kiko, we add it by default
<carlos> kiko, very weird
<carlos> I rewrote the wrapping code
<salgado> BjornT, ping?
<kiko> carlos, that code sucked, too :)
<carlos> kiko, that code is part of the po parser
<carlos> kiko, all that code sucks a lot
<kiko> carlos, so no more whitespace bustage? ;-) this is the fifth fix!
<carlos> kiko, this problem was also a whitespace problem, but unrelated to the previous one
<carlos> this time it was a bug in our code not in our db
<kiko> doh!
<kiko> yeah, I know, but it's still whitespace :)
<kiko> (I'm happy it only happens on output though)
<kiko> carlos, your branch is getting fatter eh? :-)
<kiko> https://staging.ubuntu.com/products/pyopenssl/+packages
<kiko> contains a broken link
<carlos> kiko, yeah, that branch starts being huge
<kiko> carlos, I'll review if we confirm we're good tomorrow
<carlos> kiko, there are other minor issues that martin raised
<kiko> salgado, is this a dupe? https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2425
<kiko> 
<carlos> but will try to have it fixed between today and tomorrow before you wake up
<kiko> carlos, yeah -- has he managed to do the msgmerg?
<carlos> no idea
<salgado> kiko, only half of it
<kiko> salgado, hoho
<kiko> jordi, as for your gajim branch, I don't know how do deal with that. ddaa?
<kiko> matsubara!
<kiko> salgado, didn't you just fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2241
<matsubara> i'm back
<salgado> kiko, I fixed it yesterday, IIRC. now I fixed 2425 --make sure you don't get the "Log me in after ..." checkbox if you're already logged in
<kiko> okay
<salgado> kiko, oooops, misread the bug report
<salgado> kiko, I fixed 2241 last week (thursday, IIRC)
<salgado> OMG. I haven't fixed it
<kiko> what did you just land into PQM then?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2435 (patch-2447: guilherme.salgado@canonical.com)
<salgado> go, dilys
<kiko> salgado, can you please copy the bug summary when landing? it's terrible for me, writing the report
<SteveA> mpt: if you merge from my branch, links can now contain markup.  you need to use a special thing for ones that do contain markup
<SteveA> this is in pqm's queue
<mpt> ok, thanks
<kiko> salgado: Small fix so people accessing /shipit/myrequest instead of going
<kiko> +first to /shipit and logging in get a 'Forbidden' page instead of a 'System
<kiko> +Error' one.
<kiko> isn't that bug 2241?
<salgado> kiko, no, that's a bug I introduced yesterday, when fixing the one stub reported
<mpt> hmm
<mpt> SteveA: I want to customize the title of an AddForm based on the context ... Is there any way to do that short of making a mini-template that uses addform?
<kiko> salgado, both bugs seem to be about the same thing..
<kiko> mpt, nope.
<mpt> okie dokie
<salgado> kiko, in https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2241 mpt says that we should not return the 'Forbidden' page if you're not logged in
<salgado> kiko, but right now you won't get the 'Forbidden' if you go to /myrequest. you'll get a 'System Error'
<kiko> I see, I see
<salgado> that's what I fixed
<SteveA> mpt: the main-template used to have a slot for the content of <title> that i had explicitly inserted just for this case. 
<SteveA> someone removed it.
<SteveA> another way to achieve the effect is to use a function in pagetitles
<SteveA> that uses view.pagetitle
<SteveA> def launchpad_addform(context, view):
<SteveA>     # Returning None results in the default Launchpad page title being used.
<SteveA>     return getattr(view, 'page_title', None)
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> aha
<SteveA> i see it is already there
<SteveA> so, the way to do it is to set page_title on your view class.
<SteveA> bradb: take note
* SteveA goes home for the night
<kiko> beautiful
<bradb> SteveA: ah, nice
<bradb> I've found the need to create custom templates for each page almost all the time anyway
* bradb looks into why the Malone front page is request auth
<bradb> s/request/requesting/
<bradb> probably trying to show a private bug. GRHASDFJ.
<ddaa> kiko: importd does not have privs to delete a productseries
<ddaa> neither do I
<kiko> latestbugs is not privacy-safe?
<kiko> ddaa, neither do I
<ddaa> I tried this morning :)
<bradb> kiko: just a guess so far, but that's my first hunch
<ddaa> -> stub or lifeless
<ddaa> I sort of recall this sort of things was supposed not to be done
<ddaa> that product and series should be made "inactive" and not deleted
<kiko> well, duh
<kiko> how do you make it inactive?
<ddaa> but TBH I find that wrong
<ddaa> mh... actually productseries does not have this flag
<ddaa> it must be only a product thing
<ddaa> (*)w
<ddaa> (that's a lightbulb)
<ddaa> I can move the offending series to some junk product
<kiko> you roxoringor
<kiko> Can someone get rid of the "0.8" branch in the gajim product? It was
<kiko> ddaa, that's the one
<kiko> also 
<kiko> there is a product with dupe releases
<kiko> has that been fixed, ddaa?
<ddaa> kiko: what do you mean, dupe?
<kiko> two series, same release name in each series, boom
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/2390
<ddaa> hu... dunno about releases
<ddaa> I have to leave, I'll just move gaijim out of the way, if you want me to have a try at the other problem assign it to me, I'll assign it back to you if I'm unsuccessful
<kiko> okay, neat
<ddaa> bah
<ddaa> $series/+review is borken
* ddaa goes to hit the db
<kiko> ddaa, can you file a bug so I can sic matsubara on it tomorrow?
<ddaa> kiko: I'm really out of time for today
<kiko> okay, tomorrow then
<ddaa> moved gajim/0.8 to products/duplicates
<kiko> roxor
<ddaa> for kicks: try here https://launchpad.net/products/duplicates/+series/0.8/+review to post the form
<ddaa> (no need to change the values)
<ddaa> it claims invalid value for some reason
<ddaa> that's the bug
* ddaa -> out for the night
<kiko> matsubara, can you file a bug for ddaa?
<ddaa> note, you have to be a launchpad admin before even trying to use +review
<kiko> I know :)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  Fix gina to use apt-pkg's idea of source version (patch-2448: daniel.silverstone@canonical.com)
<carlos> I'm having some problems running a launchpad script on mawson 
<carlos> https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileCMgN9E.html
<carlos> it's related to GPG
<carlos> any help?
<carlos> I just update all source code
<kiko> carlos, you need to update your trees
<kiko> make clean
<kiko> make build
<kiko> try again
<carlos> oh
<carlos> I missed that part
<carlos> ok
<carlos> let's try...
<carlos> kiko, thanks
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  fix http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=site:launchpad.net+%22log+in+or+register+with+launchpad%22&filter=0 (patch-2449: mpt@canonical.com)
<kiko> salgado, should teams be able to register GPG keys?!
<salgado> kiko, no
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/people/shipit-admins/
<salgado> kiko, I fixed that in one of my [trivial]  changes today
<kiko> ah, cool
<salgado> in case you're talking about the "GPG Keys: None registered" text
<kiko> yes
<kiko> salgado, I'm curious. I asked to join the shipit-admins team, but nothing happened. Is there some weird case involving administrators?
<bradb> kiko: do we add LP BOF ideas here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/BOFs or do we have a separate page for that?
<kiko> I haven't really thought about that, bradb 
<kiko> so do whichever feels best and we'll deal with it later
<salgado> kiko, all administrators of shipit-admins should receive an email saying you want to join
<mpt> I suggest the Ubuntu wiki page, bradb
<mpt> because they'll be scheduled together
<kiko> salgado, is there no feedback of what I did at all?
<salgado> kiko, oh, sorry
<salgado> you can't join that team
<salgado> nobody can
<salgado> dammit. I had tests for this
<kiko> salgado, bug 2450.
<salgado> you should get a message saying you can't join and explaining why
<kiko> salgado, not a big deal, but a bug even so
* kiko uses his admin powers
<bradb> Right, I'll put it on the page at the link above for now then.
* carlos -> dinner
<carlos> see you!
* mpt is homeward bound
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: [trivial]  tidy up bug reporting form headers (fix bug 1919) (patch-2450)
<sivang> can I now use only malone to open bugs in main in ubuntu?
<kiko> sivang, unfortunately not yet
<sivang> kiko: ah I see, but on launchpad is ok?
<kiko> of course
<kiko> launchpad's official tracker is malone
<kiko> speaking of which..
<sivang> yes?
<sivang> kiko: I uploaded a key, and signed it, and signed the CoC, how do I enable my ubuntu.com email?
<sivang> (already approved as Ubuntite)
<Nafallo> kiko_diskless: what are you doing? :-)
<kiko_diskless> using the diskless system to find baz some disk space
<Nafallo> :-P
<Nafallo> kiko_diskless: you got some messages from nkour on kiko ;-)
<kiko_diskless> what did nkour want with poor me?
<Nafallo>  <nkour> https://launchpad.net/products/gajim/+series/main/+pots/gajim HEAD must die
<Nafallo>  <nkour> we have 2 places, and Basque transl first started in  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gajim/+pots/gajim then restsarted in HEAD
<Nafallo> <nkour> since you're can do it, please make HEAD die and before move all the po from HEAD to 0.8 and ask to OVERWRITE
<Nafallo> <nkour> that will be less headache for everyone and for you
<Nafallo> :-P
<kiko_diskless> I am not sure how to do this, but..
<Nafallo> we should have something that keeps everything in sync sometime in the future I hope? ;-)
<kiko_diskless> blame carlos!
<Nafallo> hehe
<Nafallo> he's not here ;-)
<Nafallo> can you forward it? I'm really not that much in to the code to answer this guys questions :-)
<kiko_diskless> I'll try
<Nafallo> thanx :-)
#launchpad 2006-09-18
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<Fujitsu> Good morning, mpt!
<jamesh> lifeless: https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/productrelease-sourcepackagerelease.txt <- results of matching product release files with source package release files on demo.launchpad.net
<jamesh> had to run librarian-gc before getting those results
<lifeless> cool. let me finish this release and I'll peek
<jamesh> mpt: ping?
<mpt> jamesh, pong
<jamesh> mpt: I was working on a fix for bug 55649: adding a "Product..development_focus" field pointing at a product series, and Bjorn noted that the way I displayed it on the product page was a bit confusing
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 55649 in launchpad "Product does not record an explicit main series" [Untriaged,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/55649
<jamesh> mpt: at the moment I just have the text "This series is the current development focus" below the nominated series in the main content area
<jamesh> I was wondering if you have any better ideas
<mpt> jamesh, perhaps use a pastel background to highlight the series in the list, keeping "Current focus of development" at the bottom of that highlighted section
<jamesh> interesting.  Any particular colour or CSS class we use for this sort of thing elsewhere?
<mpt> There's class="highlighted"
<jamesh> thanks.
<jamesh> mpt: what do you think of removing the class="discreet" bit for the series listing?
<mpt> jamesh, good idea
<jamesh> lifeless: I posted the results of the product release/source package release matching to the list.  It shows up at least one bad release file pattern in our current data
<lifeless> thank you for examining this closley
<jamesh> I think we might want to adopt a slightly more complex pattern matching syntax
<jamesh> one that can also be used to extract version numbers from the file name like the uscan one can
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> I would like to just invoke uscan TBH
<jamesh> stub: would you be able to review the DB patch in "jamesh/launchpad/bug-55649"?
<SteveA> morning
<lifeless> jamesh: so is it worth my reading the report yet ? 
<lifeless> jamesh: or do you think its too broken to go forward with until a better pattern matcher is in place ?
<lifeless> hi SteveA 
<jamesh> lifeless: I think the matching report gave pretty good results -- the matches we got were correct in as far as the data created by product-release-finder was correct
<jamesh> lifeless: the only issues were (1) the pattern for redland was too loose, so picked up tarballs for another release, and (2) the version number inferred from some tarball names was incorrect
<lifeless> interesting
<lifeless> not all that many hits
<lifeless> thats on demo ?
<jamesh> yeah
<lifeless> not automake matches ?
<lifeless> 'no'
<jamesh> the automake tarballs might be repacked to remove GFDL docs ...
<lifeless> yeah
<jamesh> (for the Ubuntu packages, that is)
<lifeless> I'm trying to get a handle on how big the damage is
<jamesh> there are some source packages where the debian/ dir has been merged into the .orig.tar.gz too, iirc
<lifeless> eww
<jamesh> (I think the libtool package was like that last time I looked)
<lifeless> mm
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> I think we should be good to go
<lifeless> but we still need to fix this form :
<lifeless> https://demo.launchpad.net/products/bzr/bzr.dev/+source
<jamesh> yeah
<lifeless> try filling out the release details
<lifeless> theres a bug open on this
<jamesh> I think we should remove everything from that form except upstream VCS details
<jamesh> and have a "no VCS details registered" radio button
<lifeless> that works for me, as long as theres a 'edit series FTP/HTTP file location' button somewhere visible
<lifeless> can you do a report that shows:
<lifeless> tarball, series name (i.e. trunk) and version (0.10) only - no cross reference to the distro side ?
<lifeless> I'd like to review that 
<jamesh> didn't I include one like that earlier?
<lifeless> I don tthink so
<lifeless> maybe I missed it if it wasn't cced to me
<lifeless> the one you put https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/productrelease-sourcepackagerelease.txt has the spr - which is distro side
<jamesh> the mail titled "product-release-finder test results", which was CC'd to you
<lifeless> oops, blush
<jamesh> from 4 days ago
<lifeless> ah, middle of the pre-freeze sprint
<lifeless> should we special case the .orig issue ?
<lifeless> I'm not entirely sure whyh l-k-h is a product at all, but ...
<jamesh> probably should.  (in hct's splitversion method, probably)
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> publib too is affected
<jamesh> yep.  Those were the two I identified in the email :)
<carlos> morning
<lifeless> jamesh: emailed
<stub> jamesh: Please add a comment to comments.sql for the development_focus column, and maybe update the existing table comment on product series to say there should always be at least one per product.
<stub> jamesh: Otherwise, r=stub. patch-67-20-0.sql
<jamesh> stub: thanks
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61024 in malone "+packagebugs with a large number of packages approaches uselessness" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61024
<jordi> carlos, danilos: so I spent most of my time last week bringing the queue up to date.
<carlos> jordi: yeah, I saw it. Good work!!
<jordi> Most if not all of what's in there now is dubious or waiting for some action from requesters
<jordi> thx!
<jordi> if only wordpress would get their stuff sorted out
<carlos> jordi: did you talked with mvo about the 'broken' locales he's uploading ?
<danilos> jordi: hi! cool, only ~120 unreviewed templates left!
<danilos> jordi: ah, so they are reviewed as well, great job :)
<jordi> I was tempted to approve the wordpress stuff, given they *know* about and document rosetta in their webpage
<jordi> danilos: I'm talking about products :)
<jordi> carlos: nope, I didn't catch him on irc during the WE
<jordi> I'll do now
<carlos> jordi: ok, thanks
<carlos> danilos: I did the distro work ;-)
<danilos> jordi: ok :)
<danilos> carlos: ok :)
<danilos> danilos: ok :)
<jordi> so, so
<carlos> jordi: what's exactly the problem with duplicate messages?
<jordi> if jordi did products, and carlos did distro, WHAT DID DANILO DO
<carlos> jordi: Firefox!
<carlos> :-D
<danilos> jordi: I slept longer, thanks to you guys :)
<jordi> heh
<jordi> duplicate messages?
<carlos> jordi: I read something about that as the problem to import wordpress
<jordi> hm, no mvo
<jordi> oh
<jordi> they document rosetta in their webpage as one of the ways of translating wordpress
<jordi> but they also have other ways of doing translations
<jordi> = mess
<Ag4Ms> Hi Room..!
<carlos> jordi: ok, forget what I told you....
<carlos> I see, I misunderstood that 
<danilos> carlos: jordi needs not forgetting, he didn't hear you the first time, he never listens :)
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> jordi: well, in that case, if they still want the import... we should do it, the mess is their fault...
<carlos> I mean, we cannot force them to use a concrete way to handle their translations...
<jordi> http://codex.wordpress.org/Translating_WordPress
<jordi> yeah
<jordi> That was my new POV during the weekend
<jordi> want mess? all yours :)
<jordi> "     Note: many translators have found Rosetta to be a good starting point, but once it comes time to proofread the entire list of translations, many have opted to switch hand-editing the PO file or using a program like poEdit or KBabel, since the Rosetta UI lacks a search feature and other things that become essential when proofreading and editing. "
<jordi> hrm
<jordi> ok
<jordi> decided, I'm accepting these
<carlos> just note to them, that they could use Rosetta as the place to get back those .po files 
<carlos> is not a matter if they use Kbabel or poEdit, just upload them into rosetta so they don't get conflicts to solve on their side
<jordi> yeah
<jordi> I'll try
<jordi> Ryan is not exactly responsive
<jordi> accepted
<jordi> to bad we've been rejecting many WP files for months.
<carlos> well, we still need the .pot file and I think we got them before we got the request to import the .pot file...
<jordi> we had a pot file and two translations 
<jordi> I renamed the template to "wordpress", too
<jordi> carlos: btw, you should get rid of the "reuse" me templates soon
<jordi> or you'll run out :)
<jordi> only 10 left :)
<carlos> jordi: ;-)
<carlos> less work for us :-P
<jordi> carlos: is it possible to get rid of "projects"?
<jordi> wordpress the project, and wordpress, wordpress2 the products
<jordi> this is a mess
<jordi> and how do I change the "recommended" template?
<jordi> can't remember tghis
<jordi> ugh
<jordi> so there's a wordpress-2 product which is deactivated but still shows up in navigation
<carlos> jordi: talk with kiko and/or stub about it
<jordi> k
<jordi> about the navigation, I guess
<carlos> jordi: kiko deactivated a lot of products recently so I guess he should know exactly what's going on there
<jordi> what about the recommended template?
<jordi> kiko: wake up man
<carlos> jordi: URL?
<carlos> jordi: mpt changed the templates to show the recomended ones... I don't know what rule he used to decide which one is the recommended one for products
<jordi> http://launchpad.net/products/wordpress
<carlos> mpt: ?
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<jordi> SteveA: hey dude
<carlos> In fact
<carlos> jordi: https://launchpad.net/products/wordpress/+translations 
<carlos> that page is broken
<carlos> you don't see all available templates
<jordi> yeah
<carlos> jordi: also, could you change the flag for wordpress to say 'It uses Rosetta'
<jordi> well, I can't
<jordi> I can't edit it
<mpt> carlos: on a product page, product, Ubuntu package, other package
<carlos> mpt: talking about products, no distro packages
<mpt> I didn't change the selection, just the order
<mpt> hi SteveA 
<carlos> mpt: I see
<carlos> mpt: what happens if there are two templates for different productseries?
<carlos> jordi: how's that? you are a 'registry' expert/admin, aren't you?
<mpt> carlos, I don't know, I didn't change anything about that
<carlos> ok
<mpt> I didn't change the selection, just the order.
<carlos> jordi: seems like support for multiple templates in products is broken right now
<mpt> so that product templates were prioritized first instead of last.
<carlos> jordi: we should add a translation_focus field to Product to use the same procedure we use with distributions
<carlos> jordi: to decide the productseries that should have the translation focus
<carlos> jordi: anyway... are there any other release for 1.x  branch?
<carlos> jordi: shouldn't they use 'trunk'?
<jordi> I don't know
<jordi> we really should find a way to make 2.0 show up there tho :)
<carlos> jordi: I guess just the first one appears....
<carlos> let me try something...
<carlos> jordi: but I still think they should use the 'trunk' standard way...
<carlos> jordi: it requires code changes
<carlos> (to show 2.x over 1.x)
<jordi> nod
<jordi> everyone loves the 2h slots :)
<jordi> carlos: down to 9 files
<jordi> some of them are cruft for sure :)
<carlos> jordi: ;-)
<ddaa> You know it's going to be a bad day when:
<ddaa> you forget to put milk in your scrambled eggs
<ddaa> your coffee pot makes strange fizzling noises
<LarstiQ> there goes milk into scrambled eggs?
<ddaa> Yup, otherwise it's just a weird omelette.
<ddaa> One coffee spoon of milk per egg
* mpt shudders
<mpt> Though, caffeinated eggs could be interesting
<ddaa> uh?!?
<jamesh> ddaa: a coffee spoon isn't a standard measure in most english speaking countries
<ddaa> jamesh: mh... in my understanding, a teaspoon is a bit smaller
<jamesh> ddaa: maybe you mean a table spoon?
<ddaa> no, that's much large
<ddaa> * larger
<ddaa> teaspoon < coffee spoon < table spoon
<ddaa> but maybe it's just me
<jamesh> dessert spoon?
<ddaa> nah, coffee spoon < dessert spoon < table spoon
<ddaa> bah, I'll call that a teaspoon
<malcc> I guess it just depends whether tea or coffee was the more traditional drink in any given country, when the spoons were named
<carlos> jordi, danilos: dudes... what are Evince people thinking on?
<carlos> jordi, danilos: latest release uses 'Evince' instead of 'evince' as the translation domain....
<jordi> sigh
<danilos> carlos: "yay" for them
<carlos> what should we do to reflect that fact?
<carlos> because our system doesn't allow us to do it...
<carlos> without changing Dapper and Breezy's translation domains too...
<carlos> unless we give it a 'evince-edgy' name
<danilos> hum, I have no idea; ask for a patched ubuntu package? :)
<danilos> ooh fuck, Serbian translation in Rosetta should be banned... some of these guys are not only using Latin script, but Latin script without *any* diacritics (which are separate letters in Serbian like )
<seb128> carlos: how did they change it? the .mo are named "evince.mo"
<Ubugtu> New bug: #60614 in rosetta "Wrong string in gtk20 po file" [High,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60614
<seb128> carlos: the configure has "GETTEXT_PACKAGE=evince"
<mpt> danilos, send jordi in there to sort them out :-)
<danilos> mpt: The Jordi of Fury, I will :)
<danilos> I should probably report a bug and assign it to jordi ;)
<danilos> or send them The Fury of Jordi, whatever works better :)
* jordi warms his Fury Engine.
<jordi> but, what seb says.
<danilos> jordi: this is about Serbian "translation" in Rosetta, I'll let you handle that :P
<mpt> the Fury Engine, like the Emotion Engine but cooler
<jordi> oh, serbian
<jordi> we should merge with croatian translations
<danilos> jordi: yeah, that would work too :)
<danilos> jordi: don't forget the bosnian, though ;)
<danilos> carlos: ping
<carlos> seb128: the .pot file is Evince.pot
<carlos> seb128: if the official .mo files is evince.mo then, it's all right
<seb128> carlos: 
<seb128> $ ls evince-0.6.0/po/*.pot
<seb128> evince-0.6.0/po/evince.pot
<carlos> seb128: hmmm, latest .pot file for evince that we got in Rosetta has 'po/Evince.pot'
<seb128> carlos: that's a local build of the edgy package
<seb128> maybe somebody did upload that template?
<carlos> seb128: hmmm, sorry, it's not latest, it's from last month...
<carlos> perhaps it was a bug that they already fixed....
<carlos> seb128: it came from the automatic import queue
<carlos> seb128: atm only Rosetta admins are allowed to use the upload form for Ubuntu
<seb128> $ find . -name "*.pot"
<seb128> ./evince-0.5.5/po/Evince.pot
<seb128> ./evince-0.6.0/po/evince.pot
<seb128> ./evince-0.6.0/help/evince.pot
<seb128> ./build/evince-0.6.0/po/evince.pot
<seb128> ./build/evince-0.6.0/help/evince.pot
<jordi> ah, so it's fixed
<seb128> carlos: right, it was a 0.5.5 issue
<carlos> seb128: I see, ok
<seb128> how many packages do you have lagging behind?
<seb128> you just figured glib, gtk and evince were outdated in a few min
<seb128> :p
<carlos> seb128: not really, just that one was lagging behind
<carlos> because it changed its filename
<seb128> ok
<carlos> in fact, later releases are already imported
<carlos> when it was fixed
<seb128> cool
<seb128> so you just have to drop the "Evince" variant
<carlos> right
<carlos> already done
* seb128 hugs carlos
<carlos> seb128: ;-)
<lifeless> reviewer meeting in 11
<jordi> people calling carlos "mr. carlos" :)
<carlos> jordi: well.... some girls in the university told me that already when asking for the 'time', really depressing...
* carlos feels old
<jordi> haha
<jordi> hey man
<jordi> I just shaved after nearly two months
<jordi> and people say I got rid of 5 years :)
<lifeless> review meeting in 2
<carlos> well, that was being shaved.... so you are depressing me even more....
<carlos> ;-)
<lifeless> reviewer meeting starts now
<lifeless> == Agenda ==
<lifeless>  * Roll call
<lifeless>  * Queue status.
<lifeless> = Roll Call =
<SteveA> hi
<lifeless> ho
<jamesh> hi
<lifeless> its off to work we go
<BjornT> hi
<lifeless> so the queue is in good shape
<lifeless> its packed, but nothing is overdue
<lifeless> congrats all
<spiv> hi
<lifeless> 10 items oldest is 4 days, which is 2 adjusting for the weekend. They'll be overdue tomorrow though ;)
<lifeless> any comments or questions arond this ?
<jamesh> I'll make sure to finish off BjornT's branch soon
<lifeless> (1 minute to say so)
<lifeless> thanks jamesh 
<lifeless> I suck, as I still haven't documented the escalation process
<lifeless> for post-merge reviews that should not have been done
<lifeless> whats the general feeling about those reviews? worth doing? many abuses? few abuses?
<SteveA> for post-merge reviews that reveal that merge should not have been done
<SteveA> I think they are good
<jamesh> there were a few problems in some revisions I reviewed that would have been caught during review, but no huge problems
<lifeless> I think we should keep doing this. I'll pickup the trivials weekly and allocate them. How does that sound ?
<BjornT> i think post-merge reviews have been useful. they are quick to do, and there have been some remarks on [trivial]  merges.
<BjornT> weekly sounds good.
<lifeless> ok
<spiv> lifeless: +!
<spiv> er, +1
<lifeless> haha
<lifeless> ok, thats preserved in the log ;)
<lifeless> any new business?
<SteveA> there was an issue ddaa brought up
<SteveA> in the last lp devel meeting
<lifeless> is that like a furball ?
<SteveA> that I told him to add to this meeting's agenda if he wanted it discussed
<SteveA> apparently he didn't, and I don't remember what it was
<SteveA> so, that's that then :-)
<lifeless> is it in the transcript from the meeting ?
<SteveA> yes
<lifeless> heh
<SteveA> in the literal log anyway
<BjornT> actually, there is a proposed item from ddaa on ReviewerMeetingAgenda
<lifeless> oh, I read right past that
<lifeless> my bad
<SteveA> ah, so ddaa did add it
<lifeless>     *
<lifeless>       Pending reviews to be assigned in two working days at most (ddaa)
<SteveA> thanks BjornT 
<lifeless> ddaa: your floow
<lifeless> *floor*
<lifeless> hmm
<SteveA> save it for next time then?
<lifeless> SteveA: do you know what it was about specifically? I allocate daily, so I'm not sure what it means
<lifeless> when I'm away I ask another reviewer to allocate
<SteveA> I don't know.  I think ddaa needs to explain.
<lifeless> agreed
<lifeless> ddaa: please explain
<SteveA> I have things to do
<lifeless> likewise
<lifeless> ok, ddaa can resubmit it when he reads scrollback
<lifeless> or bring it up with me, as its not a team wide issue
<lifeless> I have one item of 'other'
<lifeless> jamesh: hows the pending-reviews load ?
<ddaa> last week there was two days when allocation did not seem to have been done
<jamesh> for runs when no changes have taken place, it takes about 2 minutes to run now
<lifeless> jamesh: excellent
<ddaa> wed and thu .au time
<jamesh> so combined with locking against parallel runs, we could probably bump the frequency up a bit
<lifeless> ddaa: my routine is to allocate daily. Occasionally I dont manage to usually due to being insanely busy : i.e. last minute sprint for the smart server for bzr.
<SteveA> we discussed once-per-day for w-i-p
<SteveA> and much more frequently for branches for review
<jamesh> this might result in a run getting missed, occasionally, but it wouldn't be as important if it is more frequent
<lifeless> well lets start with the higher frequency i
<ddaa> lifeless: ack you were busy. Maybe at this point you could have somebody do the assigning for you.
<lifeless> its a smaller change in terms of human effourt
<lifeless> *effort*
<jamesh> SteveA: yeah.  I haven't looked at doing that bit yet
<SteveA> ok
<lifeless> jamesh: what frequency do you think is feasible ?
<lifeless> jamesh: 30 minutes ?
<lifeless> 1 hr ?
<jamesh> SteveA: preventing unnecessary work was a bigger win, and I'd probably have needed to do the changes anyway to reduce the frequency of w-i-p branches
<jamesh> lifeless: it is currently on 1 hour.  30 minutes should be doable
<lifeless> cool
<lifeless> next week I'll be asking again
<lifeless> I'd like to understand where we can dial up to ;)
<jamesh> lifeless: previously the rsync jobs for oops reports seemed to be piling up due to the IO bandwidth being saturated
<lifeless> it might be worth doing an in-memory merge
<jamesh> I don't think they're locked against multiple runs too
<jamesh> so we were ending up with multiple rsync runs for the same data at times
<lifeless> ok, this is covered for now for me
<lifeless> jamesh: thats filed with the sysadmins right ?
<jamesh> lifeless: not yet.  I'll do it after the meeting
<lifeless> jamesh: thanks
<lifeless> any other other business ?
<lifeless> ddaa: if someone else wants to take it on, I'm happy to ask them to do it with SteveA/kiko's ok. However I consider myself responsible for getting the reviews allocated, so we'd be getting into matrix-mgmt territory, which is not so hot.
<lifeless> hmm, we are already in some ways. 
<lifeless> SteveA: what do you think? Daily allocations are not fundamentally interesting, and the system seems to be ticking along very well now.
<ddaa> lifeless: I'm just suggesting that when you get into "insanely busy" mode, you just temporarily pass the pumpkin to someone else, so reviews keeps being assigned timely. Probably the same as you would do when going on vacation.
<lifeless> ddaa: I do - this case I didn't realise how much lilfting we had to do
<SteveA> thanks for raising the issue ddaa.  let's leave things as they are and see if we get any problems in this area in the future
<lifeless> short of having two people doing the reviews daily each, I'm not sure how to prevent occasional glitches
<ddaa> Then let's consider that issue closed. I just though I had to complain about the hiccup last week :)
<lifeless> its nowhere near the Service level issues that we had some time ago with weeks going by
<lifeless> so I'm not very concerned about it
<lifeless> SteveA: agreed.
<ddaa> Sure, things are going on very smoothly. I'd hate to see that degrade.
<ddaa> lifeless: note that is an indirect praise :)
<lifeless> ok meeting closed
<lifeless> thanks y'all
<ddaa> lifeless: so, talk about BatchProgress?
<lifeless> sure
<ddaa> my problem with testing that is that Progress classes provide an API for bzrlib to use, and I do not see how to fail when the API used by bzrlib somehow changes
<lifeless> so
<ddaa> On problem I had was when nested progress was introduced, it caused BatchProgress to miss most of the progress because it was based on DummyProgress
<lifeless> you consider it a fault when the bzr api changes? or just when it changes such that BatchProgress does not output what its meant to for the operations used in importd ?
<lifeless> I'm trying to phrase a sentence like :
<ddaa> It's not clear cut. I think the former would generate fewer false errors than checking for literal output of importd operations at full verbosity.
<lifeless> "it is a fault when XXX"
<lifeless> so for instance
<lifeless> "it is a fault if an importd commit does not output at least five status lines, one for each progress bar currently used by bzrlib"
<lifeless> and 
<ddaa> it is a fault when the bzr api changes in a way that prevents importd from reporting progress frequently enough
<lifeless> "it is a fault if an importd push does not output at least 4 status lines plus one per 50 revisions"
<lifeless> ddaa: no, thats a *cause*
<lifeless> ddaa: *causes* cause *faults*
<lifeless> tests FAIL when they detect a FAULT
<ddaa> lifeless: I think part of the issue is that I have difficulty articulating the requirement accurately.
<lifeless> so things about your statement we need to tighten up: frequently enough - is it time based or time + activity ?
<ddaa> rather the second one: "as long as bzr is doing progress, BatchProgress needs to get frequent messages"
<lifeless> well thats a unit level requirement
<lifeless> but its one we can test
<lifeless> setup a branch
<lifeless> set the ui factory to an instrumented batch progress
<lifeless> assert that you get at least X messages, where X is some figure you are comfortable with. This wont catch 'no messages at the end' and 'no messages at the start' corner cases but it will ensure the common case does not regress
<lifeless> now, how can we ensure that no activity happens outside of a progress bar ? I dont think you can without a timing based test (flakey) or a viciously intrusive system-activity-introspection approach (blag)
<ddaa> What about not subclassing DummyProgress, and having tests in bzrlib to check that Progress classes provide the whole required interface?
<lifeless> so I'd ask - what is the likely hood of bzr doing 'no progress at the start or end' - and thats low, because it would be a bad ui defect
<lifeless> ddaa: you might provide the whole interface but still suffer bugs
<lifeless> ddaa: your requirement is not about the interface, its about the output.
<lifeless> so we should test the interface as it relates to the output: which is whether your code is called
<ddaa> I'm comfortable with testing the output as long as BatchProgress gets all the messages.
<lifeless> mirroring a branch with 2 revisions for instance should generate a predictable event count
<lifeless> and committing a tree with 4 files of which 2 are modified should also do something reliable
<lifeless> and even if we change the api then, you'll know your code is getting called
<lifeless> which is AIUI the key thing
<lifeless> note that I'm not talking about testing the output
<lifeless> I'm talking about instrumenting your BatchProgress in a test subclass, and testing the calls made *into* it.
<ddaa> Nah it's not testing the right thing. I tests that for some operation, the BatchProgress gets some number of messages. It does not test that it explicitely handles all messages.
<lifeless> ddaa: Why do you think that handling all messages is a requirement ?
<ddaa> Yes. Then it does the throttling. Mere message count is not enough because API changes can cause BatchProgress to _see_ "no progress at start", although bzrlib does send the message, because they are just ignored by the DummyProgress base class.
<lifeless> testing that everything is implemented is also insufficient
<ddaa> Sure. How do I do that?
<ddaa> I saw no test in bzrlib to check that a Progress class implements the required interface.
<lifeless> you can't, its prove a negative in the general case, unless/until we get interface scenarios for progress, which we dont have
<lifeless> and even if we had it,*you can still have bugs*
<lifeless> I honestly think you are over engineering here
<lifeless> I dont have much more to offer
<ddaa> so, you say no integration test?
<lifeless> I've been talking integration test
<lifeless> testing that during a branch and commit your progress bar gets at least some arbitrary count of messages is an integration test
<lifeless> so, I've now been working for 14h 45m and would like an hour to myself before bed. Send an email to continue this if thats ok ?
<ddaa> Okay. I'll test mirroring and committing as you suggested.
<ddaa> But I'm concerned it's going to be a very brittle test.
<lifeless> say that you get 15 events when you write it
<lifeless> set your test to require 12
<lifeless> that allows bzr to become a little more efficient without breaking the test
<lifeless> but if we become a lot more efficient it might break : but equally if we become a lot less informative it will also break
<lifeless> which is what we want
<lifeless> the problem is that you want 'messages while bzr is active'
<lifeless> and we need to translate that to some metric
<ddaa> I think this approach is bogus, but your are the quality guy and bzr guy, so I'll assume you know better. Now, get out and have your private time before bed.
<lifeless> but 'less informative' and 'more efficient' shadow each other
<lifeless> ddaa: well, BjornT and salgado are both still in their daytime
<lifeless> ddaa: so feel free to seek other opinions.
<sidarus> Hi... does anybody speack french ?
<ddaa> sidarus: I do.4
<lifeless> ddaa: I'm only offering you what I would do to get a test thats fairly robust, cheap to write and maintain.
<lifeless> ddaa: ...because you asked!
<lifeless> anyhow, tchau
<sidarus> ddaa> mp
<ddaa> lifeless: thank you, I appreciate the effort.
<ddaa> and as I said, I'll do as your suggested.
<lifeless> night all
<sidarus> ddaa> Je cherche une solution de developpemnt pour osCSS. Un truc du genre TRAC (repository + bugtracker + wiki ...).
<ddaa> sidarus: oui?
<sidarus> connais tu oscss.org ?
<ddaa> non, je regarde
<sidarus> ddaa> www.oscss.org
<sidarus> au fait c'est un ecommerce open source
<sidarus> un fork d'osCommerce
<ddaa> une minute
<ddaa> sidarus: donc je suppose que tu veux savoir ce que offre Launchpad en comparaison  TRAC?
<sidarus> ddaa> exactement :)
<ddaa> Je ne connais pas bien TRAC, mais je peux rpondre  "repository + bugtracker + wiki"
<sidarus> (je viens de dcouvrir Launchpad)
<ddaa> Launchpad offre un service d'hbergement et de mirroir pour les branches Bazaar.
<ddaa> http://bazaar-vcs.org et #bzr
<sidarus> Mmmmm
<sidarus> y a une demo qq part ?
<ddaa> Il offre aussi un gestionnaire bug assez puissant, qui offre actuellement une intgration rudimentaire avec bzr. Des fonctionalits d'intgration plus pousses sont actuellement en cours de conception.
<ddaa> sidarus: tu peux jouer avec l'interface web sur staging.launchpad.net, la base de donnes de ce site est remplace tous les jours par un copie de la base de donnes de launchpad.net
<ddaa> je ne crois pas que staging.launchpad.net support le service SFTP qui permet d'hberger des branches sur launchpad.net.
<sidarus> J'ai tent d'installer subversion mais ne suis pas parvenu. Serait ce le meilleurs choix ?
<ddaa> bzr vise  tre trs simple d'emploi, si tu n'est pas dj familier avec subversion, cela peut tre plus simple.
<sidarus> ddaa>ok je vois
<ddaa> en plus bzr te permet de publier des branhes sur des serveur web tout simple sans logiciel spcifique
<ddaa> Il y a une personne qui traduit la doc en franais, mais tu aurais certainement un communaut francophone plus large avec subversion.
<sidarus> ddaa: osCSS a besoin de certain outils avec lequels nous sommes tres stisfait (DokuWiki, PHPXref, UNB). Peut-on les garder ?
<ddaa> Launchpad est conu comme une addition au site du projet. Pas un replacement. En particulier il n'offre pas de wiki en tant que tel.
<LarstiQ> then again, who needs a wiki when you have bzr branches and irc.
<sidarus> ddaa>a fait plaisir de tomber direct sur qq1 qui connais le sujet et qui de plus te repond :)
<ddaa> sidarus: je suis le dvelopeur qui chapeaute tout ce qui concerne l'intgration entre launchpad et bzr.
<sidarus> ddaa>donc je pouvais pas mieux tomber :)
<ddaa> sidarus: un avantage de launchpad est son service de traduction. Il y a une communaut de traducteurs trs actifs. Tu publies les .po d'une application, et quelques semaines plus tard tu as des traductions en N>10 langues.
<ddaa> Mais cela implique de communiquer avec les quipes de traducteurs je suppose. Les spcialistes de la trad sont carlos (espagnol) et danilos (serbe).
<LarstiQ> et jordi!
<jordi> Catalan!
<sidarus> ddaa>oui justement j'ai remarqu le ssteme de traduction. Notre problme est qu' la base le site est francophone mais il est cruciale qu'il soit traduit en englais et l'englais c'est pas mon fort
<ddaa> et jordi (catalan), c'est un ancien employ qui est toujours trs actif avec la communaut
<sidarus> jordi>Hola toreror :)
<ddaa> mh... je ne sais pas si launchpad est appropri pour traduire un site
<sidarus> je parle couramment : FR|SP
<sidarus> EN informatique
<ddaa> le systme de trad est concu pour des applicatifs utilisant gettext
<LarstiQ> wouldn't it work for a website using gettext though?
<ddaa> sidarus: dans ce cas l, carlos et jordi sont tes interlocuteurs pour rosetta.
<spiv> LarstiQ: sure
<sidarus> mais pour traduire osCSS c'est la crois et la bannire
<jordi> sidarus: toreros are saddists :)
<jordi> LarstiQ: yeah
<sidarus> @all> merci pour tout.... je risque de revwenir avec des tas de question boulets. Je vais dja install tout a en local pour me faire la main.
<SteveA> jamesh: have you seen a bzr problem using pqm-submit where it says AttributeError: 'LocationConfig' object has no attribute '_get_global_config'
<ddaa> sidarus: sidarus les questions concernant bzr (hors intgration avec launchpad) sont  poser sur #bzr
<jamesh> SteveA: what version of pqm-submit are you using?
<SteveA>  ?
<sidarus> ddaa>ok merci c'est not
<SteveA> no idea
<SteveA> how would I tell?
<ddaa> sidarus:  ton service
<jamesh> SteveA: I'm just wondering if you are using the bzr0.8 pqm-submit branch with newer bzr
* carlos -> lunch
<SteveA> what package is pqm-submit in?
<sidarus> derniere question : peut-on mettre notre repository dans launchpad ?
<jamesh> I don't think it is packaged yet.  You probably have a checkout of it in ~/.bazaar/plugins
<sidarus> atuellement il est sur sourceforge.net
<jamesh> (yes, we do need it packaged)
<jamesh> SteveA: the branch to use with current bzr is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm-devel/bzr-pqm/devel  
<SteveA> hmm, just did a bzr pull, nd get 7 revisions of http://bzr.arbash-meinel.com/plugins/pqm-submit/
<SteveA> seems to have worked
<jamesh> you should switch to the bazaar.launchpad.net version
<jamesh> it is the official version now
<SteveA> got 5 more revs from the URL you gave
<jamesh> and I don't think John's branch has the "don't submit merges to bzr.dev by default" patch
<SteveA> thanks
<theCore> is it a good idea to close old, and badly asked tickets requests? 
<theCore> or should I leave them open?
<ddaa> sidarus: il y a une fonctionalit pour importer de svn vers bzr sur launchpad. Mais pas d'hbergement svn natif.
<sidarus> ddaa>ok merci
<theCore> here an example of tickets I would like to close https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+ticket/14
<theCore> I think this one also show another problem
<theCore> peoples should be able to request tickets in their native language
<theCore> they could be translatable, too
<SteveA> having tickets in a native language is coming soon
<theCore> SteveA, cool
<SteveA> theCore: flacoste is working on it.
<theCore> SteveA, thanks for the info
<carlos> jordi: did you approved pt_PT translation for ddtp?
<sidarus> ddaa> j'essaye d'importer cvs > launchpad mais j'y arrive pas
<ddaa> sidarus: pourquoi le nom de produit de osscss est "sidarus" (regarde dans l'url)?
<ddaa> sidarus: quelle est la commande que tu tapes pour faire un checkout avec CSS?
<ddaa> sidarus: une fois que les coordonnes du CVS sont dans launchpad, je dois faire quelques action manuelles
<ddaa> * pour fair un checkout avec CVS
<sidarus> ddaa>CVS root =  :pserver:anonymous@oscss.cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/oscss
<ddaa> et le module?
<sidarus> le pb est qu'il y a 3 modules : admin catalog sql
<ddaa> mh, ca fait trois branches
<sidarus> a pose pb ?
<ddaa> en principe, dans launchpad, ca fait trois produits distincts, mais c'est pas ncessaire si a ne correspond pas a l'organisation du projet (releases distinctes)
<ddaa> si au niveau packaging c'est trois .rpm ou deb distincts, tu devrais enregistrer trois produits sur launchpad. Tu peux les grouper dans un mme projet
<ddaa> si c'est juste un seul product en trois pieces, tu peux just crer trois "release series" dans launchpad pour contourner le probleme.
<ddaa> bon, je vais m'occuper de catalog pour commencer
<sidarus> ddaa>ok je vois. Au fait il a 3 branche : catalog=fontend, admin=backend et sql
<sidarus> ddaa>je vois que j'ai tout fais faux :P
<ddaa> sidarus: tu devrais changer le nom du produit pour tre "osscss" or "osscss-catalog"
<ddaa> sidarus: pas de problme, c'est pas vraiment vident la premire fois si on a un project un tant soit peu atypique
<sidarus> ddaa>tu me suggere donc de faire 3 projets : oscss-catalog, oscss-admin, oscss-sql ?
<ddaa> ca depend de la maniere dont le projet est organise...
<ddaa> et c'est trois "products" que tu grouperais dans un mme "project".
<sidarus> ddaa>organisation d'osCSS :: 1) catalog=fontend, 2) admin=backend 3) sql
<ddaa> est-ce que les trois pices sont releases et packages independamment? Si oui, trois products, si non, trois series dans un meme product.
<sidarus> ddaa>1 seul package
<sidarus> ddaa>faut que je m'y colle  la logique de launchpad
<ddaa> donc trois release series. T'en fait pas, normalement c'est plus simple mais oscss a l'air d'tre organis de manire un peu bizarre.
<sidarus> ddaa>je suis ouvert a toute critique. Tu suggere quoi comme organisation ?
<SteveA> jamesh: I like the stuff you've done for improving finding specific parts of the template in page tests
<SteveA> jamesh: please add an agenda item on it for thursday's meeting, so we can be sure everyone is aware of it
<ddaa> sidarus: si aucune des trois parties n'est utile sans les deux autres, je pense que a devrait tre une seule branche.
<ddaa> sidarus: ca permet de garder facilement l'histoire de l'ensemble, et a evite d'avoir des morceaux correspondant  des revisions differentes
<ddaa> surtout avec bzr qui contrairement a CVS enregistre l'histoire de toute une arborescence et non de fichier individuels
<sidarus> ddaa>au fait "admin" est un sous-dossier de "catalog"
<sidarus> ddaa>le pb est que "admin" peut etre install ailleurs ou renomm pour des raisons de securit
<ddaa> dans ce cas, l'import de catalog contiendra admin
<sidarus> oui tout a fait
<sidarus> dans l'installation par defaut
<ddaa> le fait que les utilisateurs soit susceptible de change l'organisation n'est pas pertinente  ce niveau. On est just en train de reprsenter le logiciel tel qui'l est distribu et versionn.
<sidarus> ddaa>ok l je comprend mieux
<sidarus> ddaa> au fait : https://launchpad.net/products/sidarus/trunk <= y a erreur ?
<ddaa> sidarus: a te drange si je demande  un launchpad-admin de changer le nom du product de "sidarus" en "oscss"?
<sidarus> non au contraire :)
<ddaa> kiko: please change name of product "sidarus" to "oscss".
<kiko> hey ddaa 
<sidarus> thx kiko & ddaa
<ddaa> kiko: hey, I'm guiding a potential new adopter to setting up launchpad and bzr stuff for his project.
<sidarus> osCSS is possible ?
<sidarus> osCSS must be lowercase ?
<ddaa> sidarus: the "name" is only used in urls, it's all lower case. The name used in human text is "display name" and can have anything you want.
<ddaa> sidarus: and it's already "osCSS". Besides you can change it yourself
<sidarus> ddaa>ok thx
<kiko> ddaa, sidarus: done.
<sidarus> kiko>thank's a lot
<ddaa> sidarus: https://launchpad.net/products/oscss
<sidarus> great :)
<ddaa> sidarus: I'm currently running a test import of oscss/trunk. If it works, I'll do a product import and you'll get access to bzr branch when that completes.
<ddaa> note that will produce a branch that's read-only for you. Only launchpad will update it by looking at the cvs repo. To publishes your changes with bzr you'll put your branch on launchpad.
<sidarus> ddaa>Merci beaucoup !
<ddaa> sidarus: a ta place, je changerais le nom de "trunk" pour etre "catalog", et je rajouterai un release series pour sql.
<ddaa> tu pourra ensuite crer un autre "trunk" qui correspondrait  la combinaison des deux.
<sidarus> ddaa>ok je vais faire le ncessaire
<ddaa> tu peux appeler les series comme tu veux, c'est juste une question de convention.
<sidarus> ddaa>juste pour pas mourir con... trunk a signifie quoi ?
<ddaa> "tronc"
<sidarus> mouaaaaaaarf
<ddaa> i.e. la branche principale d'o partent toutes les autres branches
<sidarus> i.e. tree
<sidarus> enfin merci, je suis mort de rire
<ddaa> En fait "tree" signifie autrechose. L'arborescence des fichiers dans une branche. Les branches forment plutt un rseau :)
<ddaa> mtaphores bogues :)
<sidarus> On en apprend tous les jours :)
<sidarus> ddaa>au fait nommer "trunk" > "http" a passe ?
<ddaa> sidarus: pourquoi pas.
<ddaa> L'ide est surtout que si c'est packag dans ubuntu, les packages soient associs  trunk (de manire conventionelle) et que la branch associe est le contenu qui correspond au package.
<ddaa> okay, dit moi quand c'est bon et je lancerai la conversion en production
<sidarus> ddaa>bon ben va pour "trunk". J'aime pas bousculer les conventions.
<ddaa> okay, c'est parti. L'import devrait tre en ligne dans moins d'une heure
<sidarus> :)
<danilos> carlos: ping (again ;))
<carlos> danilos: pong
<carlos> I didn't see your first ping...
<imbrandon> cprov: ping, does that mean the fix for backports is live
<danilos> carlos: ping (just playing a game of table-tennis ;)
<carlos> :-P
<cprov> imbrandon: no, needs rollout
<imbrandon> cprov: ahh ok , just seen the reply in my mail, wasent sure
<imbrandon> okies thanks
<kristog> hello *
<kristog> i wonder if i could setup a *commit-message-system* on a specific baz branch
<kristog> bzr*
<kiko> thanks BjornT 
<cprov> imbrandon: fine, we will try to rollout soyuz this week, earlier than the LP itself, I'll ping when it happen
<kiko> BjornT, if you have another moment and want to unblock me, I have another fix that is up for review with jamesh. It's not very long. Are you game?
<imbrandon> cprov: great , thanks a ton 
<cprov> imbrandon: np, glad to help
<kiko> malcc, cprov: I see that branch finally landed. how are we looking on the test?
<BjornT> kiko: sure.
<kiko> BjornT, I'll bounce it to you, one moment.
<cprov> kiko: seems to be fine, was pending one more run with all the issues set during the weekend. malcc how did it go ?
<kiko> cprov, oof, finally.
<kiko> BjornT, sent.
<malcc> kiko, cprov: I spent some time at the weekend getting mostly set up with a more solid baseline, incorporating the experience from the previous runs
<kiko> awesome
<cprov> malcc: nice !
<malcc> kiko, cprov: I'm planning to do one final test run only once we've got a candidate codeline from rocketfuel, so right now I'm working on the soyuz-fixes branch instead, as I can finish off getting ready to test while that lands and we set up our candidate
<kiko> okay, cool.
<malcc> Otherwise, any re-testing now will end up being on a slightly different codeline than what we'll end up using
<cprov> malcc: [r=kiko]  I suppose ?
<kiko> ?
<malcc> cprov: I'm working on addressing the last of kiko's suggestions, so the soyuz-fixes branch will end up r=kiko in all likelihood, after I've responded to the review. Is that what you mean?
<kiko> ah. I misunderstood as well.
<spiv> 
<cprov> malcc: yes, i was just suggestion kiko might be a good candidate to review those changes  ... well done
<kiko> matsubara, OOPS-259B935 seems to have been fixed already. is that true?
<Ubug2> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/259B935
<matsubara> kiko: yes, bug 59249
<Ubug2> Malone bug 59249 in launchpad-bazaar "Edit branch details form need input validation for non-existent product" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59249
<kristog> (second try ;) ) do you know how i can send mail after a commit on a LP bzr branch?
<kiko> thanks matsubara 
<cprov> nice ... custom setUp now works for build-notification.txt test, ITestMailBox is present for Zopeless layer, thanks flacoste/jamesh/malcc
<jordi> carlos: I did, as "pt"
<jordi> carlos: did you see my request about removing that Swedish translation that slipped as Northern Sami?
<carlos> jordi: oh, really, I didn't see it correctly then ;-)
<carlos> jordi: yes, but I cannot do it, Stuart should do it, I will send the request later today, don't worry
<jordi> yup, thanks
<jordi> danilos: and, you got a Cc for me regarding some plural forms :)
<jordi> danilos: agreed that translatable strings with \r are bad? :)
<matthewrevell>  /leave
<matthewrevell> sorry
<matthewrevell> :)
<ddaa> jamesh: ping?
<jordi> carlos: hm, interesting bug report
<jordi> Message-ID: <bc2bd34a0609171512q3e20c44bx702f6c4861b1395b@mail.gmail.com>
<carlos> jordi: I would prefer links to the bug
<jordi> in rosetta-users
<jordi> there is none :)there's no bug filed yet
<jordi> I can give you a link to the archive, wait
<jordi> oh man, the lag
<jordi> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/rosetta-users/2006-September/001805.html
<carlos> jordi: don't worry, I saw it already
<carlos> jordi: well, actually, that's a bug in that .pot file
<carlos> I mean... mixing \r with \r\n is a bit broken....
<jordi> 16:31 < jordi> danilos: agreed that translatable strings with \r are bad? :)
<jordi> :)
<jordi> still, there's plenty of files out there with \r
<carlos> I didn't say that \r is bad
<carlos> is not the best thing in the world... but we can live with that
<carlos> jordi: I said that mixing both '\r' and '\r\n' is bad
<danilos> jordi: well, it sucks, but it's still bug on our side, imho
<carlos> in the same string...
<jordi> iirc the gettext manual has something abotu \r ?
<carlos> jordi, danilos: I guess that our bug is that we don't handle '\r' to show it with the special symbol for new line char
<carlos> but in this case, upstart should be fixed
<danilos> carlos: right, agreed
<carlos> oh, another bug in our side is that we shouldn't accept .pot files broken that way....
<carlos> the web form does that check, but seems like .po/.pot imports aren't
<jordi> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-dv <-- can you assign[1~carlos: 
<carlos> sure
<carlos> jordi: done
<jordi> again, the lag
<jordi> this is so laggy it's not even funny
<carlos> danilos, jordi: I'm pinging Scott to talk about upstart .pot file
<jordi> 9k
<danilos> carlos: ok, thanks
<Ubug2> New bug: #61081 in rosetta "PO template +edit form needs better validation for priority field" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61081
* Nafallo files Bug #61086
<Ubug2> Malone bug 61086 in rosetta "Filter please" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61086
<kiko> matsubara, what bug is bug 60730 a dupe of?
<Ubug2> Malone bug 60730 in malone "Malone breaks patches by messing with whitespace" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60730
<kiko> Nafallo, that's a pretty weird bug summary
<Nafallo> kiko: hmm, indeed. I should be able to make that a bit more verbose I think ;-).
<Nafallo> that should be better then :-)
<carlos> danilos, jordi: Bad news
<danilos> carlos: yes?
<kiko> malcc, is there time to sneak in another patch in your test run? or am I being evil? It may improve the performance of domination significantly..
<carlos> danilos, jordi: Seems like it's not broken, but it's the first application that actually needs to handle '\r' and '\r\n' in the same message
<malcc> kiko: Yes there's time. If the test run reveals a problem with it, we can decide then if there's time to fix it and retry, or if we need to leave it for later
<danilos> carlos, how can that be? what is it actually doing?
<carlos> danilos: it does exactly what those chars mean
<kiko> malcc, okay, let me see if I can get it fixed in time for your run. ping me when you need it
<carlos> move to the start of the line (without moving one line down), write something and move to the next line
<malcc> kiko: Next run won't be until after this soyuz-fixes branch I'm responding to the review for has landed, you've got some time
<carlos> danilos: text console 'magic'
<danilos> carlos: hum, what is it, some vt emulation program, or what?
<carlos> danilos: I guess this could be a good example of tags that should be removed from translatable strings, like we try to do with XML translations
<danilos> hum, why would init-replacement need things like that... well, whatever
<carlos> danilos: it's the new init implementation for Ubuntu
<matsubara> kiko: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/2627 maybe
<Ubug2> New bug: #61086 in rosetta "Filter at pot-listings" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61086
<carlos> danilos: for booting status 
<danilos> carlos: agreed, we need something like <unchangeable>
<carlos> danilos: well, I still think it's a bug in upstart, it shouldn't extract those 'tags' to be translated
<carlos> but I also agree that Rosetta should allow people to translate such strings
<danilos> carlos: the string is particularly silly
<carlos> danilos: but it's valid
<danilos> carlos: indeed
<carlos> if it's valid, Rosetta should allow people to work with it
<carlos> jordi: would be possible that you file a bug about upstart problem and assign it to me?
<kiko> matsubara, I believe that's right. 
<matsubara> kiko: I'll dupe accordingly. I wonder why 2627 is marked as private. Do you see any reason for that?
<ddaa> There's something excessively strange going on with the branch puller
<kiko> matsubara, not really..
<ddaa> fantastic, some early branch makes it crash
<kiko> BjornT, well, you tell me -- in what case could self.bugattachments == other.bugattachments?
<kiko> BjornT, I think that's really not the right thing to check.
<BjornT> kiko: only when self.bugattachments == other.bugattachments == [] 
<kiko> BjornT, I think doing a check for != makes that much more obscure.
<kiko> malcc, ping?
<malcc> kiko: pong
<kiko> malcc, can source packages never be in the publication status PENDING?
<malcc> kiko: They can, but not for very long
<malcc> kiko: process-accepted puts them there, and then a couple minutes later, publish-distro moves them along to published; it all happens during one cron.daily run
<BjornT> kiko: interesting, i think not using != is much more obscure :) since the method name is 'isIdenticalTo', it makes much more sense (to me) to check for equality, not for presense of attachments.
<ddaa> it's the oscss import... grmbl...
<kiko> BjornT, but we can't ever check if attachments are identical, which is why if any of the comments has them, we should bail out.
<kiko> BjornT, that fact is lost when you use !=
<kiko> there is no way of comparing ==
<kiko> unless they are empty lists
<jamesh> ddaa: pong
<kiko> malcc, do you understand why the dominator queries binaries for PENDING and PUBLISHED, but sources only for PUBLISHED?
<malcc> kiko: No idea at all. Unless something is very strange, there can't be any binaries in PENDING at that time either, as we're not between process-accepted and publish-distro's first phase
<malcc> kiko: I suspect it's cruft
<kiko> malcc, hmm. should I try and drop PENDING as well, or just XXX it for later?
<ddaa> jamesh: can you look at https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/60418 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60418 in launchpad-bazaar "configurable default syncinterval for vcs imports" [High,Confirmed]  
<malcc> kiko: I'd say put in an XXX. Querying on another state which has no rows won't be slow, and perhaps it's the best conceptual thing to be querying for, so we might want to fix sources not binaries
<ddaa> jamesh: lifeless and sabdfl would like me to step up the frequency of vcs syncs, but that problem is getting in the way
<jamesh> ddaa: okay.  Is there anything more I'd need to know other than what's in the bug report?
<ddaa> jamesh: the main open issue is that I'm not clear where the default value should be stored
<kiko> malcc, ok.
<jamesh> e.g. what the default sync intervals should be for cvs and svn
<jamesh> ddaa: does the launchpad.conf file sound okay?
<BjornT> kiko: well, if you prefer to check for presence of attachments, keep it. it's not a big issue, especially not since there's a comment explaining the check.
<ddaa> jamesh: I guess... but that means changing it would require bouncing importd
<ddaa> The most convenient thing for me would be having it stored in the database, so it can be changed without having to interrupt service. But there might be a policy problem with doing that.
<ddaa> Mh... on second though... having it stored in the DB would not help much because importd sucks
<ddaa> jamesh: okay with the lanchpad config
<ddaa> jamesh: defaults should be 6h for svn, 12h for cvs.
<jamesh> ddaa: changing it to some place other than launchpad.conf later on shouldn't be too difficult
<jordi> carlos: sure, but tell me why \r\n is bad and \r isn't
<carlos> jordi: all them are bad, but this is a corner case when it makes sense
<carlos> jordi: anyway, I'm filing the bug right now, so don't worry
<jordi> ah ok
<carlos> jordi: it's just like <b>foo</b> in XML
<jordi> nod
<carlos> jordi: it should not be there
<carlos> but the program extracts those special tags and translators could mess it... but we should allow it
<carlos> until upstart came, no other template needed that
<sidarus> by all see you soon
<sidarus> ddaa>special thank's to you
<ddaa> sidarus: you're welcome. I'm debugging some problem caused by the oscss import, I'll let you know when the import is published.
<jordi> sidarus: laters!
<sidarus> ddaa>many thank's for your help, see you later ;)
<carlos> jordi, danilos: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/61096
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61096 in rosetta "Rosetta should allow '\r' and '\r\n' in the same msgid/translation" [Medium,Confirmed]  
<carlos> jordi: the mail you wanted me to look into is the one about kdelibs, isn't it?
<jordi> yes
<kiko> BjornT, do you really think I should revert? I'd rather have r=BjornT than nothing ;-)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61096 in rosetta "Rosetta should allow '\r' and '\r\n' in the same msgid/translation" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61096
<BjornT> kiko: i never said anything about reverting, did i? :) i did say that it wasnt such a big issue and you could keep it the way you have it. so you got r=BjornT
<kiko> :)
<kiko> thanks.
<kiko> malcc, this turned into a more serious whack :-( see if you think it's worth doing, otherwise store in a branch of yours for further work.
<kiko> malcc: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/file5wEqLs.html
<malcc> kiko: Wow, looks like you've rewritten the whole thing. Can you summarise the approach behind your changes?
<kiko> malcc, well... basically I got rid of _sortPackages, and used debversion_sort_key instead.
<malcc> kiko: Not bad for a 635-line patch :)
<carlos> jordi: seems like Ubuntu packages 'lost' those strings
<carlos> jordi: it's not a Rosetta issue, but package problem
<kiko> malcc, sorry. I think I got carried away by all that cruft. it's somewhat nicer now, though. :-(
<malcc> kiko: Yes, de-crufting is good, it's just a bit overwhelming trying to work out which changes actually change anything and which are pure code-level refactoring
<jordi> carlos: oh hmm.
<carlos> jordi: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdelibs/+bug/61107
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61107 in kdelibs "Some stock strings are not extracted to be translated" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  
<kiko> salgado, have time to do a trivialish review?
<kiko> salgado, https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/file53br7Y.html
<salgado> kiko, what do you think of storing SQLConstant("person_sort_key(Person.displayname, Person.name)") as Person._sort_key (or something similar)?
<kiko> salgado, we already do -- Person.sortingColumns.
<salgado> kiko, why not use it on activememberships and etc, then?
<kiko> good point.
<salgado> I guess you'll have to add a Person. on SQLConstant("person_sort_key(displayname,name)")
<salgado> I mean, Person.[name,displayname] 
<kiko> hmmm, right.
<salgado> kiko, other than that, looks good to me
<kiko> cool, salgado. thanks.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61112 in rosetta "Rosetta should display something for a "\r" in a msgid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61112
<ddaa> Does anybody know how I can debug a http request given its apache access log?
<ddaa> I have that:
<ddaa> 82.211.81.156 - - [18/Sep/2006:18:05:48 +0100]  "GET /000007ac/.bzr/repository/knits/3a/application_top.php.bak-20060918135605-1hhi6s5mwfczzdkr-198.knit HTTP/1.1" 206 667 "-" "bzr/0.10.0 (urllib)"
<SteveA> debug in what sense?
<ddaa> I presume this log gives enough information to rebuild the request. Then I would like to run it "manually" and see what the server answered
<SteveA> you can try to do that
<SteveA> it doesn't contain all the information that might have been passed
<SteveA> for example in other HTTP headers
<SteveA> but you can try it
<SteveA> telnet host port
<SteveA> GET /000007ac/.bzr/.... HTTP/1.1
<SteveA> Host: externally.visible.hostname
<SteveA>  (this line intentionally left blank)
<ddaa> ATM it looks like it was a ranged request that did not give all the expected bytes
<SteveA> well, you won't get the range headers in the log
<ddaa> oh, what is the "206 667" bit then?
<SteveA> that indicates that a partial request was made
<SteveA> and successfully completed
<SteveA> but, it was not logged what the range was
<SteveA> ddaa: if you need to debug this, there should be a way to log the Range headers of requests, maybe sticking it o nthe end of the log lines
<ddaa> yeah, there were some commented mutter statements in the code
<ddaa> I just uncommented them
<SteveA> oh, I meant in the apache logs
<SteveA> but I guess having bzr log it too works
<kiko> bradb... did you read my email? why are you removing stuff without giving proper time for further discussion?
<bradb> kiko: urgh
<bradb> kiko: I didn't think a small change like that needed consensus, tbh.
<bradb> But it's easy to change back.
<kiko> bradb, the date was exposed in the spec mockups too. I think it would be more practical to discuss things before going ahead and firing changes off into RF.
<SteveA> bradb: principle of least surprise... if people will be in the least bit surprised, then stick to what was agreed before
* SteveA abuses standard rules of thumb some more
<bradb> SteveA: sure, UI 101. but we have no info either way right now. i just went with what mpt said.
<bradb> but anyway, i'll hold off landing other changes like that unless they're explicitly agreed on.
<SteveA> this is the principle of least surprise for working on a team, rather than the principle for UI design
<kiko> bradb, I'm also now asking myself why you didn't include the package/product icons that we had specd together, bradb?
<SteveA> I'm just abusing the same name to make a point
<kiko> or the collapsing...
<bradb> SteveA: oh, ISWYM
<bradb> kiko: I didn't intentionally leave those icons out, fwiw. I can add it to my todo.
<kiko> IIRC we thought they were a nice idea in that they helped differentiate upstream versus distro bug rows in the status table
<kiko> man how I hate that actions menu.
<bradb> kiko: the icons might help. hard to say.
<Nafallo> https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/61086 <-- could someone look if that might be unduplicated? ;-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61086 in rosetta "Filter at pot-listings" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
<kiko> Nafallo, what are "pot-listings"?
<Nafallo> kiko: what we have on the URL pointed to :-)
<kiko> Nafallo, hmm?
<Nafallo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+lang/sv
<Nafallo> that list with pots :-)
<kiko> Nafallo, that's a distribution release language listing. and yes, that's a dupe.
<kiko> Nafallo, bug 112.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 112 in rosetta "Search for packages per language" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/112
<Nafallo> hmm, oki. I read Simira's bug as if she wanted more than just the filter, but that might just be me then :-).
<Nafallo> I just want to be able to filter out for example upstart's template so that I can work on it :-)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61123 in rosetta "Rosetta should display something for consecutive spaces in the middle of a line of a msgid" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61123
<kiko> bradb, so the scenario I am concerned about is the following
<kiko> we turn on release nominations
<kiko> we have thousands of users using malone for ubuntu
<kiko> and then one of the following happens:
<kiko> a) the distro team is overwhelmed by the requests (are they emailed, btw? if not, is this feature very useful?)
<kiko> b) we find out a bug that cases these nominations to misbehave somehow
<kiko> c) the distro team finds the feature interesting but there are some serious bugs that make it very distracting to use the feature
<kiko> bradb, in any of those scenarios we are kind of fucked if we have no way of disabling the addition of new notifications.
<bradb> kiko: b and c seem to apply to a lot of significant feature additions, fwiw.
<kiko> bradb, I agree, but that doesn't make it less important here.
<kiko> this is a feature that has a lot of chance of getting us lambasted
<bradb> re: a, no they aren't currently emailed. they could be, but that would just increase the pressure in the firehose. IMHO, the most useful way to deal with the flood of noms is listings.
<kiko> (in particular the distro team did /not/ ask for it)
<kiko> bradb, listings which we don't yet have.
<bradb> kiko: indeed, though they are quick to add after it rolls out.
<bradb> and, as much as being about nominations, it's also about release targeting
<kiko> bradb, again, I don't agree on rolling this feature out half-baked.
<kiko> it will only get us bad rep.
<kiko> "Why does nobody look at these nominations?"
<kiko> "How can I stop people from adding these nominations to my product!?"
<kiko> "If you want me to use it, how can I see all nominations for my product?"
<kiko> etc.
<bradb> kiko: i don't agree on half-baked solutions either, though i do think it's practical to release early and often, particularly when what's missing can be added pretty quickly.
<kiko> bradb, in some situations, I agree. in this one, I don't.
<bradb> because right now we've made a lot of very important decisions on something we have very little, perhaps no, information about
<kiko> I agree, but still think that the damage of the half-baked release outweighs that.
<kiko> what we /should/ have done was rolled out to a test server, instead of landing into RF.
<kiko> now that it is in RF, you can either back it out or deal with the fact that we may need to turn it off.
<kiko> which is why I've been trying to point out in this last week of emails
<bradb> kiko: I agree that I made a mistake in landing it in rf
<bradb> I'm willing to back it out.
<bradb> and work with stub to put it on a beta site
<kiko> that's an acceptable solution if you prefer that
<bradb> ok, i will back it out
<kiko> I just think that conditionally disabling the feature may be less work
<kiko> but that can be your call
<bradb> i think i'd rather back it out for now
<kiko> okidok
<kiko> SteveA, do we have a box that would serve as an edge or test box?
<kiko> bradb, otherwise that means carbon I guess
<bradb> kiko: so, the affects revs are: 4047, 4046, 4032. should i just reverse apply each one, newest to oldest, then commit all that? what about reviews, etc?
<bradb> s/affects/affected/
<kiko> bradb, well.. if you can reverse apply them cleanly, I think it's fine.
<kiko> rs=kiko on backing it out anyway.
<bradb> ok
<Nafallo> what's the correct way to Close bugs in changelogs? :-)
<cprov> Nafallo: well, currently there is no Soyuz/Malone interface in this land. I didn't spend much attention on it (it's a regression from dak)
<Nafallo> ah, oki.
<Nafallo> thanks anyway then :-)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61129 in malone "minidom crashes with encoding errors while parsing external bug tracker pages" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61129
<bradb> kiko: would it be relatively easy to kill just the current merge request in pqm?
<kiko> bradb, I have no idea. you could have pushed a revision with a failing test earlier, but now..
<kiko> you'll need admin help
<bradb> elmo: can you bounce pqm? i.e. I want to "cancel" just the merge request pqm is currently processing, if possible.
<dholbach> hello
<dholbach> andrunko just tried to push a branch to sftp://andrunko@bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/telepathy-qt/ubuntu and it created a sftp: file for him and pushed 0 revisions - his ssh key is ok and I added him to the telepathy team (the product created too) - does anybody have an idea, what's going wrong?
<andrunko> it created sftp: dir
<dholbach> ahhh a dir
<kiko> an sftp: directory?
<kiko> that's most weird
<andrunko> yep
<kiko> ddaa?
<andrunko> anmagalh@andrunko:~/projects/tapioca/trunk/telepathy-qt$ bzr push --create-prefix sftp://andrunko@bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/telepathy-qt/ubuntu
<andrunko> 0 revision(s) pushed.
<kiko> andrunko, hmm. --create-prefix should no longer be necessary or used IIRC
<ddaa> I'm officially out, but what can I (quickly!) do to help?
<andrunko> hmmm, let me try again without it
<kiko> ddaa, see above
<ddaa> well, there was a number of versions of bzr where this message was buggy
<flacoste> andrunko: yeah, the first push always pushed 0 revision
<andrunko> flacoste: no that's no the problem
<andrunko> it did not push anything
<ddaa> but it otherwise worked correctly
<andrunko> it created a sftp: dir in  PWD
<kiko> andrunko, oh, on your local box?
<andrunko> yep
<ddaa> well, I do not see any branch for telepathy-qt on launchpad
<andrunko> it did not work
<andrunko> i will try without --create-prefix
<ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/telepathy-qt
<ddaa> a branch should appear here as soon as the push start
<ddaa> otherwise, everything appears correct
<ddaa> I mean here: https://launchpad.net/products/telepathy-qt/+branches
<andrunko> anmagalh@andrunko:~/projects/tapioca/trunk/telepathy-qt/debian$ bzr push --create-prefix sftp://andrunko@bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/telepathy-qt/ubuntu
<andrunko> 0 revision(s) pushed.
<andrunko> anmagalh@andrunko:~/projects/tapioca/trunk/telepathy-qt/debian$ ls
<andrunko> changelog  cmake.mk  compat  control  copyright  rules  sftp:  telepathy-qt0.install  telepathy-qt-dev.install
<andrunko> it just created the sftp: dir
<ddaa> bah
<BjornT> andrunko: do you have python-paramiko installed?
<andrunko> i don't know what is happening
<ddaa> BjornT++
<dholbach> nghnghnghngh.
<ddaa> I think that's a known bug. You need python-paramiko installed
<ddaa> andrunko: try with a more recent release of bzr too
* dholbach hugs andrunko
<SteveA> win 14
<andrunko> now it seems to work
<dholbach> andrunko: sorry - I didn't think of that earlier
<andrunko> np
<andrunko> :)
<andrunko> ddaa: i am using dapper here
<andrunko> i will create a edgy chroot env 
<dholbach> andrunko: I'll check it out once the branch is up on LP
<andrunko> great
<ddaa> andrunko: that's seriously obsolete... 0.8.2 according to http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/source/bzr
<dholbach> ddaa: hahaha - we support for that 3 years? 5 years? :-)
<ddaa> 0.11 will be released soon, there has been 0.9 and 0.10 since that, which brings plenty of love (major performance improvements)
<andrunko> :)
<ddaa> http://bazaar-vcs.org/DistroDownloads
<ddaa> you'll get an apt.sources line there to get the latest love
<andrunko> great, i should be updating to edgy soon
<ddaa> dholbach: I seriously think that newer bzr should go in through dapper updates
<dholbach> that's something that should be discussed with Colin and Matt
<ddaa> bzr is < 1.0, it's early adopter stuff that we publicize actively
<ddaa> dholbach: can you bring that up with them?
<dholbach> I'd prefer it if you'd argue the case
<dholbach> or somebody of your team, since you know better what's at stake
<ddaa> Well, actually mpool should argue the case.
<ddaa> he's coming back from vacation tomorrow
<ddaa> there was a strong push before dapper so 0.8 could get in, because it brough in a new, incompatible, vastly improved branch format.
<ddaa> And we really did not want dapper user to use the old format.
<LarstiQ> ddaa: afaik, EtienneG is first seeing how 0.10 does in edgy before trying dapper
<Nafallo> ddaa: what's this? https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+branch/gajim/ubuntu
<Nafallo> ddaa: the warning that is...
<Nafallo> hmm, still pushing :-P
<ddaa> ha, there's a bug open on that
<Nafallo> might be because of that maybe? :-)
<Nafallo> :-)
<ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/49989
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 49989 in launchpad-bazaar "branch puller reports failure for new hosted branches" [Low,Confirmed]  
<ddaa> it's vaguely confusing, but much less so than many other things, thus the Low importance.
<ddaa> Also, it's likely to be fixed as a side effect of other more important improvements.
<Nafallo> oki :-). just wondered what the hell it was :-P
* Nafallo subs the bug ;-)
* ddaa goes out for the night
<dholbach> good night everybody
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61149 in malone "externalbugtracker.Bugzilla fails to query bugs on version 2.17.1" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61149
<kiko> hmmm
<bradb> kiko: Is there a spec other than CanonicalPillarNames that talks about the unique names magic? At least, I thought that was implemented, but, if it is, it doesn't work like the spec says.
<bradb> (I was following up to bug 54985)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54985 in malone "launchpad.net/bugs/product-name  as a shortcut" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54985
<kiko> bradb, it is implemented AFAIK.
<theCore> how do I add a wiki page to a Team?
<bradb> kiko: what's the syntax?
<kiko> bradb, syntax?
<bradb> kiko: yeah, like what's the shortest URL I can use to see a product's homepage? person? distro? etc.
<kiko> bradb, only the names were made unique. the URLs are not shortened yet.
<bradb> ah, ok
<kiko> I believe there is API to make it easy to redirect however.
<bradb> kiko: so, for bug 54985, can i say that bugs.launchpad.net/$product, ~$person, and $distro will work someday in the not too distant future?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54985 in malone "launchpad.net/bugs/product-name  as a shortcut" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54985
<bradb> will/probably will/might, whatever :P
#launchpad 2006-09-19
<kiko> bradb, yes, stub's working on that AFAIK
<bradb> ok, cool
<Ubugtu> New bug: #60874 in conglomerate "crashes when trying to play sounds" [Unknown,Unknown]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60874
<kiko> cprov-afk, ping?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61183 in launchpad "Search packages has an unhelpful sort order" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61183
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<SteveA> morning
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> hi carlos 
<carlos> SteveA: hi
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<mpt> SteveA, pong
<SteveA> mpt: when can we have a chat?
<mpt> SteveA, now's good
* mpt gets annoyed that repositories prevent simultaneous merges
<SteveA> it would be possible for them to allow that, but it would make the code a lot more complicated
<malcc> From my point of view, it'd be an improvement if it just pretended, ie. blocked waiting for the lock rather than giving me an error and making me think
<ddaa> malcc: there was some discussion on the ML about that, likely bzr-0.11 will do "wait on lock"
<malcc> Cool!
<ddaa> there was also discussion on allowing per-knit locking in some cases, but it sounded like it was not going to happen soon. More likely, some smart server could be used instead of inter-process locking
<jamesh> mpt: if you're merging from rocketfuel into one of your branches, you'll find that most of the work for the second merge was already done for the first
<jamesh> mpt: since the new revisions will already be in the repository, it just needs to merge the changes into the working copy
<mpt> jamesh, that would normally be an advantage, but in this case I was merging first from an sftp:// branch and secondly from my local rocketfuel-built copy
<mpt> I guess I should have done them the other way around
<jamesh> mpt: you can do "bzr fetch $FROM $TO" to do the "pull revisions into my repository" without setting up a pending merge in your working tree
<jamesh> e.g. fetch from your rocketfuel-built copy, then merge from sftp
<jamesh> to minimise the number of revs that need to be fetched via sftp
<SteveA> jamesh: nice, I didn't know about bzr fetch
<mpt> I remember bzr fetch, because someone (mpool?) asked me what its opposite should be called
<mpt> bzr throw :-)
<SteveA> bzr unappeal
<SteveA> ddaa: ping
<ddaa> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> ddaa: I'd like your advice on a bzr problem
<SteveA> I have a tree where bzr info gives me info
<SteveA> and then says
<SteveA> NoSuchRevision: Branch BzrBranch5('file:///srv/launchpad.net/launchpad/') has no revision pqm@pqm.ubuntu.com-20060824115831-cb77ca85929d1ba2
<SteveA> with a traceback
<SteveA> bzr revert doesn't fix it
<SteveA> bzr pull --overwrite doesn't fix it either
<SteveA> is there something I can do to explicitly pull in this revision?
<ddaa> SteveA: fetch-ghosts, maybe
<SteveA> unknown command
<ddaa> ha, it's from bzrtools
<ddaa> SteveA: what I'd do would be branch into a populated repository
<SteveA> how will that help?
<danilos> carlos, jordi: anyone doing the Divehi plural forms? ;)
<SteveA> I just tried to pull --overwrite from a populated repository, assuming I understand "populated repository" right
<carlos> danilos: not me
<danilos> carlos: ok, I'll handle that
<carlos> danilos: neither jordi, he's without network connection in his other job
<ddaa> SteveA: it pulls revision into a repository
<SteveA> how does that help me?
<SteveA> the repository has that revision
<SteveA> how does that get the revision into the branch I want it in?
<ddaa> SteveA: I do not understand what is your situation and what you are trying to do, so I can only guess.
<SteveA> I have a branch.
<SteveA> I cannot do stuff I want to do with it, because bzr info gives that exception
<SteveA> the exception indicates there is a missing revision
<SteveA> I have the revision in a repository elsewhere
<SteveA> but I do not know how to get that revision from the repository into the branch that is missing it
<ddaa> SteveA: bzr info should never give you that sort of error, so you have another problem as well. And I do not know what it is. I suggest:
<ddaa> cd broken-branch ; bzr branch /path/to/repo/branch-name
<ddaa> Then repo/branch-name should work. Replace broken-branch by a lightweight checkout or a fresh branch from repo/branch-name
<SteveA> okay I can do that.  although, it is annoying because this is a launchpad branch
<ddaa> actually "bzr branch broken-branch /path/to/repo/branch-name"
<SteveA> and so I have to mess around with the subtrees / symlink things
<ddaa> SteveA: all the more a reason to use a repository and light checkouts
<SteveA> I don't know a good way to maintain these things in bzr currently
<ddaa> What you can do to avoid messing with subtrees etc is to replace the .bzr in your broken tree by the one you created when doing a fresh checkout/branch
<SteveA> that sounds like flaky magic
<SteveA> until bzr has a supported way of doing this I'll
<SteveA>  - use the most obvious thing
<SteveA>  - consider reorganising the launchpad tree in RF so that it works well within the limitations of bzr as now
<ddaa> on minute
<ddaa> need music to cover the screams of the walking foetuses outside
<SteveA> I'm sure there's a French punk band called "the walking foetuses"
<ddaa> SteveA: I think you are talking about two issues now and that's confusing me
<sabdfl> lifeless: squid question: is it possible to setup a browser and proxy so that the browser<->proxy connection is always over https even for http URL's?
<ddaa> There are several issues here:
<SteveA> sabdfl: you can do that with apache, or with any proxy
<sabdfl> i find myself stuck behind national firewalls like in china and want to bypass those
<ddaa> 1. you have a branch that causes bzr info to barf. It's highly anomalous, I did not have anything like that in weeks or months. We look for ways to recover your data.
<SteveA> sabdfl: the proxy setting will be https://your.proxy
<SteveA> and the proxy itself will be sent queries by the browser like  GET http://the/site/you/want HTTP/1.1
<sabdfl> i tried running firefox on my home desktop with X forwarded over SSH to my laptop but that's.... painful
<ddaa> 2. you appears to have issues with dealing with nested trees. I do not understand clearly what is your issue
<sabdfl> ok, thanks stevea
<SteveA> the tricky thing is, making sure only you can use this https proxy
<SteveA> as you don't want to be running an open proxy
<sabdfl> SteveA: why not?
<ddaa> 3. I recommend that you use repositories and light checkouts when working with launchpad because it makes things perform much better
<SteveA> if it is discovered by spammers, they can use it to send spam, for one thing
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> ddaa: thanks for your comments and assistance.  I'm rebuilding that tree.  There was no important data in it that I can't get from elsewhere.
<SteveA> ddaa: there are various issues with how obvious it is to do stuff with nested trees.  I've seen how confused non-bzr-experts find it, and I include myself in that group.
<SteveA> ddaa: so, don't worry that you don't understand the difficulty.  But do believe me when I say there are difficulties.
<SteveA> so, I have no current problem.  I've archived the faulty branch and mailed martin about it, so he can examine it later if he wants to.
<ddaa> SteveA: my pet solution for launchpad is to use my "bzr switch" command, in bzrtools. It works only on light checkouts.
<SteveA> sabdfl: elmo has set up some kind of VPN thing to talk to the brilliant machine.  so, a VPN is an alternative for you when traveling.
<ddaa> So I can change the branch of the launchpad branch w/o having to touch the nested trees.
<ddaa> It's fast, cheap in disk space, and reliable.
<ddaa> sabdfl: I see firefox can use a SOCKS proxy. Then you can use ssh to setup such a proxy that tunnels you to e.g. the data center.
<ddaa> e.g. "ssh -N -D 5191 remote-host"
<sabdfl> thanks ddaa, will try that too
<ddaa> SOCKS rocks to gets through hostile firewalls
<Fujitsu> It really rocks!
<ddaa> hey sidarus
<sidarus> hello ddaa :)
<ddaa> bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/oscss/trunk oscss
<ddaa> enjoy
<SteveA> win 9
<sidarus> we have also a channel on this server : #oscss
<sidarus> ddaa>thank's a lot ;)
<ddaa> Thanks too, there was a config issue in one of the internal services that caused php to try parsing bzr branch data... Fixed now.
<sidarus> ddaa> Ha ok. Merci
<carlos> stub: do you have 5 minutes to talk about Rosetta?
<stub> carlos: yes
<carlos> stub: several people asked us to run the script to copy translations from Dapper to Edgy before Edgy release so they can concentrate on Dapper and get their work reused for free in Edgy
<carlos> the copy from Breezy to Dapper took around 25 minutes, and I guess this Dapper -> Edgy copy would take more or less the same amount of time
<stub> We can test that
<carlos> I think it would be really good to have
<carlos> stub: would be useful if I time it on carbon?
<carlos> I think it should be quite fast, at least faster than staging, isn't it?
<stub> yes, although the timing now won't match the timing come edgy release time, will it?
<stub> It will be faster on carbon than on staging, yess.
<carlos> no, timing would be different because new translations will be added
<stub> Significantly?
<carlos> well, I don't think so
<carlos> because the amount of templates will not change
<stub> Anyway, I think your assumption is right and it won't be a major hassle to have a 40 minute downtime instead of a 10 minute downtime one update.
<carlos> and the amount of new rows will not be as high as the amount of rows we already have
<carlos> so, could I announce that we will do that migration?
<stub> It will be nice though when no downtime is needed or we have inheritance and no need for such bloated tables :)
<carlos> without a fixed date, but just that it will happen before Edgy release
<stub> carlos: Sure
<carlos> stub: yeah, inheritance would rock here
<stub> Will this mean people are translating obsolete versions though?
<carlos> no, people will translate Dapper as their main target
<carlos> and those translations will still be used for the next 4 years
<carlos> with regular language packs updates
<stub> Ok.
<carlos> when we implement multicasttranslations spec this migration will not be required anymore
<stub> Makes me think translations should not be tied to versions though, and when you are translating 'an application' you actually should be translating several versions all mushed together. But I digress ;)
<carlos> because translators will be able to do the migration while they translate the system
<carlos> stub: yeah, that would be another way to implement inheritance ;-)
<jamesh> the pending-reviews script seems a lot slower to process all branches than it was a few days ago
<jamesh> the current run has been going for almost 2 hours
<ddaa> I'm going out soon for a doctor appointment.
<malcc> stub: ping
<stub> malcc: pong
<malcc> stub: Hi. I've got a patch I'm developing which, among other things, renames distroreleasequeue to "upload"
<stub> That is a bit vague
<malcc> stub: I'm having trouble with the sequence distroreleasequeue_id_seq, it seems tied to the id
<stub> Lots of bits of launchpad have uploads
<stub> malcc: have a look at database/scheme/archive/patch-25-48-0.sql, and try to think up a better name for our flat table namespace
<malcc> stub: Thanks, will do
<jordi> danilo-brb: I was telling about the divehi plurals yesterday
<jordi> I mailed you during the weekend
<stub> malcc: (and yes, it is not a typo that you need to use alter table to rename sequences)
<malcc> stub: I didn't think it was, it suddenly explained why alter sequence was so little help :)
<danilos> jordi: uhm, then I must have missed that one
* carlos -> lunch
<salgado> stub, around?
<stub> salgado: yes
<salgado> hey stub, have you seen that cherry pick request I placed on LaunchpadProductionStatus?
<stub> Maybe. I'll have a look.
<stub> Yer - I've seen it. I guess I should push it out :)
<lifeless> SteveA: next you see sabdfl, the answer is 'no;
<lifeless> SteveA: because most (all?) browsers dont use https to talk to the proxy
<lifeless> SteveA: squid built with ssl, and apache built with ssl can definately do it as far as the proxy logic goes, but the browser is currently your weak point.
<lifeless> SteveA: my recommendation is one of the [excellent]  SSL tunneling VPN things like ssltunnel et al
<lifeless> which tunnel all your traffic through, giving you access to email and so on problem free.
<salgado> thanks stub!
<salgado> is there anybody using dogfood?
<malcc> Yes, I am
<salgado> I guess it will take long?
<malcc> A while, yes
<cprov> stub: do you think indexing the SourcePackageRelease.changelog would be expensive ? (see bug #48735)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48735 in soyuz "changelog histories for packages are not viewable/searchable" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48735
<stub> salgado: We have test failures with that cherry pick
<stub> salgado: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filedeulLf.html
* salgado looks
<salgado> ah, right
<salgado> stub, apparently the cherry pick included the tests I added in r4038 but not the changes themselves. is that possible?
<stub> That would be odd considering the cherry pick was r4050
<salgado> indeed, but that line was actually added in r4038.  I just checked the diff for that revision
<salgado> I guess this happened because I touched the same file in r4050
<salgado> and r4038 is a pretty small change, but includes a db patch. :-(
<stub> test_shipit.py? There is a conflict on that file. I'll look at that again.
<salgado> just removing TestShippingRun should be enough, I think
* salgado checks
<LarstiQ> heya sabdfl 
<stub> Can't see anything wrong with how I resolved the conflicts... https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileHi1qEy.html
<LarstiQ> sabdfl: safely back from travel?
<sabdfl> LarstiQ: yup and mostly in home timezones too, now
<LarstiQ> sabdfl: "mostly"? :)
<sabdfl> still waking up a bit early
<jsgotangco> heh
<LarstiQ> sabdfl: have you spoken with SteveA about rosetta output copyright yet?
<stub> lifeless: You might want to look at that if salgado is correct and changes made in r4038 have leaked into a cherry pick of r4050
<sabdfl> LarstiQ: he said he was working up a proposal
<salgado> stub, could the problem be that both revisions (4038 and 4050) came from the same branch of mine (shipit-trivialities)?
<LarstiQ> sabdfl: thanks
<salgado> stub, for now, if you remove the TestShippingRun tests, everything should work just fine.  but I'd like to have a look at the diff of the cherry pick, just to make sure this is the only thing that shouldn't be included in it
<salgado> stub, any luck with that?
<stub> salgado: tests are still running
<salgado> ah, right
<salgado> stub, would it be possible for you to merge from my person-creation-rationale into staging and run a script there, or grant me persmission to access staging's db, so that I can do it myself?
<kiko> hi
<malcc> kiko: Morning dude. Will you have some time today to look at my review response for the post-sprint fixes?
<kiko> malcc, sure -- where is it?
<malcc> kiko: Emailed yesterday afternoon, subject "Re: REVIEW: Soyuz smoketest fixes, was Re: Soyuz System Test Progress"
<kiko> malcc, I didn't get this. was it To: kiko?
<malcc> kiko: Yes. I'll re-send it to you now
<stub> salgado: tests run fine, I can cherry pick that
<SteveA> kiko: call in 2 hrs
<kiko> SteveA, with mark?
<stub> salgado: I'll do staging after the cherry pick
<SteveA> yes
<kiko> kay
<salgado> stub, cool. thanks a lot!
<SteveA> go kiko 
<SteveA> actually, that was a mistyped irssi command
<SteveA> but you can accept it as encouragement
<kiko> thanks
<stub> salgado: cherry picked
<SteveA> ddaa: ping
<SteveA> carlos, danilos: ping.  want a quick catch-up chat sometime
<carlos> SteveA: I'm here
<SteveA> carlos: can we say, 10 mins, on the hour?
<carlos> SteveA: danilo and I have a couple of meetings today, would be possible to have it tomorrow?
<carlos> or if it's really fast, is fine for me...
<SteveA> I want it, but fast is good
<carlos> SteveA: the meetings are related to our current tasks and I guess are related to the meeting you want to have with us
<SteveA> so, is meeting in 10 mins okay?
<carlos> yes, it works for me
<carlos> not sure whether danilo is around
<SteveA> ok, let's see in 10
<carlos> ok
<carlos> SteveA: #cm ?
<SteveA> how about #l-m ?
<SteveA> I mean, #launchpad-meeting 
<ddaa> SteveA: pong
<ddaa> back from the doc
<carlos> sure
<WebMaven> SteveA: Mornin'
<flacoste> kiko: ping
<kiko> flacoste, pongus
<flacoste> flacoste: will you have time to take a look at the 4 unresolved issues on the SupportTrackerWorkflowSpec (and they were alo mentioned in some emails you were Cc on)
<flacoste> flacoste: they are: a) multiple best answers or not; b) should we migrate old ticketmessage more precisely; c) should we keep TicketReopenings; d) should we generate karmaaction for all the workflow transitions
<flacoste> kiko: ^^
<flacoste> kiko: my standing: a) no, b) more yes, than no, c) no, d) no
<kiko> flacoste, yeah, I will. just ping me in the afternoon after my phone call
<flacoste> kiko: ok
<stub> salgado: I reworked your db patch a bit as the update was taking too long: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileFFEFZ1.html
<stub> (although I don't know if it is really any faster...)
<stub> salgado: staging is back up with your branch
<salgado> stub, cool. I'll fix the patch on my branch
<stub> salgado: Do you need me to disable tomorrows update, or do you only need a short time to check it out?
<salgado> stub, can you run python ./scripts/guess-person-creation-rationale.py
<salgado> I just want the output of that script, actually, and maybe check the results on the UI today, so there's no need to disable tomorrow's update
<stub> Running now
<stub> salgado: Does that script process all people in order of id?
<salgado> stub, all unvalidated people in no specific order
<WebMaven> SteveA: ping
<stub> So we have no way of telling how long this will take...
<malcc> stub: I need to re-shuffle some dbs on mawson, and a long-running EXPLAIN process is stopping me. Can you come kill it for me?
<SteveA> WebMaven: kinda busy right now
<stub> salgado: If it happens to be processing in id numeric order, which is highly likely given the staging database is rebuilt fresh daily, then this run will take about 17 hours.
<salgado> wow
<WebMaven> SteveA: later, then.
<stub> salgado: (extrapolating from https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileISPhj9.html)
<stub> salgado: Does this run in a single transaction?
<salgado> stub, no, one transaction for each person
<salgado> stub, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileuTud5L.html is how I fetch the list of people ids
<stub> That could be a cause - should batch them in lots of about 5000
<salgado> stub, it won't print tthese messages for all profiles
<salgado> only for a few of them, I expect
<salgado> very few, in fact
<stub> Yes, but looking at that query the ids will be ordered (to do the EXCEPT, both queries will be ordered before being merged I think). So we have so far processed about 6000, and there are over 600,000 rows to do.
<stub> oh - so only commit per row it prints out. I see.
<salgado> no, it commits for all rows, but that "Select ... EXCEPT Select ..." won't return 600000 rows, will it?
<stub> salgado: No - only 15,000 or so
<stub> salgado: Need to test with that batching though - this seems very slow
<stub> I'm going to need to kill it and re-run it under screen
<salgado> stub, sure, I'll add the batching quickly
<salgado> stub, so, since we'll be processing around 15k rows, would it be okay to have a batch of 500?
<stub> Maybe 50 actually - it depends on how long it takes to process each row
<salgado> it shouldn't take too long, I think
<malcc> stub: Ping
<stub> salgado: It is still going to take at least 30 mins - seems to be a maximum of 10 per second
<stub> And maybe down to around 1 per second on avg
<malcc> Can anybody help me with the db on mawson? I need to rename launchpad_dogfood (as I often do during SoyuzSystemTest stuff) and another process is using it.
<kiko> malcc, which process?
<kiko> or is that the question? :)
<malcc> kiko: postgres  9539  1433 96 Sep18 ?        17:15:51 postgres: launchpad launchpad_dogfood [local]  EXPLAIN
<malcc> kiko: Or at least that's my guess, it looks a likely candidate
<stub> malcc: Process 9539 is the source
<stub> Which looks like salgado, but I've killed it.
<malcc> stub: Cool, thanks
<salgado> yeah, I had one psql session doing an explain there yesterday and I lost the connection at some point.  I guess it was mine
<kiko> don't kill salgado
<salgado> kiko, https://staging.launchpad.net/people/mckinstry
<salgado> (a problem in the sort order is causing the latest uploaded package to be used in the comment, but I've fixed it already)
<kiko> salgado, very nice. I don't know whether parenthesized text is the right way to deliver this, but that's another matter.
<salgado> kiko, please comment on the spec. that's what mpt suggested on the spec
<kiko> salgado, I'm happy the way it is, just that I wasn't sure.
<salgado> stub, not finished yet?
<malcc> kiko: Did you get my forwarding of that email?
<kiko> malcc, yes, but I'm in a phone call.
<malcc> kiko: Sure, no hurry, just wanted to avoid the case if it went missing of losing another day.
<malcc> elmo: Ping
<kiko> malcc, can you ask somebody else to look at it meanwhile?
<SteveA> kiko: ping
<malcc> kiko: I have to go out in half an hour, if you'll get time later today it'll be quicker to stick with you. If that's not looking likely, sure, I'll look for another reviewer
<kiko> that's likely, just don't want any waste
<malcc> kiko: Cool, I'll wait then, and if there's nothing tomorrow morning I'll find a euro-timezone reviewer then
<jordi> oh man
<jordi> are you guys aware of stuff in Tailand
<kiko> Thailand?
<jordi> yeah
<jordi> possible coup d
<jordi> oh man
<jordi> I can-t type with this keyboard
<jordi> coup d'etat
<malcc> elmo: unping
<kristog> hello *
<kristog> i wonder if you know how i can setup a commit-message mailing list for a project
<kristog> the project is ~telepathy hosted on bazaar.lp.net
<carlos> mpt: hi, around?
<carlos> danilos: hi?
<danilos> SteveA, carlos: hey guys, sorry about this, I just crashed (and laid down just to relax for 5 mins), guess I caught a cold or something, can concentrate only in 4h slots :(
<carlos> danilos: don't worry
<SteveA> danilos: no worries.  carlos and I discussed the things about rosetta we needed to
<carlos> I think we should leave our meetings for tomorrow
<carlos> so you are more concentrated
<carlos> what do you think?
<danilos> carlos: sure, but there is already https://launchpad.canonical.com/ITranslationImporter you can look at
<danilos> SteveA: ok, can you fill me in with some details?
<carlos> danilos: I can send you the log
<SteveA> go kiko 
<carlos> danilos: ok, I will read it so the meeting will be more productive, thanks
<danilos> carlos: ok, thanks
<carlos> danilos: sent
<SteveA> stub: ping
<stub> SteveA: pong
<kiko> stub, how's th?
<stub> Dark and raining
<kiko> what is this news we hear about tanks?
<stub> They just took CNN and BBC off the air so you will probably know news before I do
<stub> Just another coup
<stub> Heh - interesting quote "I just spoke to a friend on Suk: He said there's a big f**king party going on to celebrate Thaksin's downfall! In his words.. "..time for another line of coke and a blowjob"
* bradb & # lunch, bbiab
<imbrandon> ping .... um i dont think i should be seeing the accept/reject buttons for the NEW queue am I ? heh 
<imbrandon> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue  ^^
<elmo> they don't do anything
<imbrandon> ok whew, just wanted to make sure it wasent a major problem, i'm smart enough not to test if they worked but someone else might not have
<imbrandon> heh thanks elmo 
<salgado> stub, still around?
<kiko> BjornT... you donna love me :)
<BjornT> kiko: don't worry, i'm going to review your patch tonight :) just need to get something to eat first.
<kiko> BjornT, if you take too long I will give you ANOTHER patch!
<Kuhrscher> Hi, is it possible that there went something wrong during the import of kdeaccessibility's pot files?
<Kuhrscher> There is for example a template for kttsd without any strings...
<ddaa> If somebody thinks that the "subversion repository" on this page https://launchpad.net/products/python/trunk looks weird, it's normal. I'm running the import from a local copy of the repository so it does not take forever.
<Kuhrscher> (instead of 462)
<stub> salgado: sodium:~stub/person-creation-rationale.txt
<salgado> thanks a lot, stub!
<salgado> stub, at some point you killed the script and started it again, right?
<stub> yes - I needed to rerun it under screen
<salgado> ok. I was wondering why some profiles already had a creation rationale
<salgado> stub, can you check if the account named sutton-david-merged has a preferred email in production?
<carlos> Kuhrscher: let me check
<salgado> stub, would you be kind enough to run another script on staging for me? (https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filePU9NaR.html)
<stub> salgado: Yes, sutton-david-merged has a preferred email address on production
<kiko> stub, would you approve of the trivial https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileoM0oDN.html
<stub> kiko: That seems broken. Why is the (1,2,3) quoted?
<kiko> stub, that's the test part..
<stub> Yes, and it seems to be demonstrating broken behavior (?)
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> right
<kiko> so omit the external ""s
<stub> I would have throught quote(set([1,2,3] ) would return "(1,2,3)", not "'(1,2,3)'"
<stub> ie. not a string
<kiko> stub, it does
<kiko> my test was just broken
<stub> The tests show it returning a single quoted string
<stub> Ahh
<kiko> right
<kiko> >>> quote(set([1,2,3] ))
<kiko> '(1, 2, 3)'
<kiko> that's a make harness run
<kiko> I just hadn't run the ftests for that file
<stub> fine then
<kiko> stub, do you have other philosophical issues with the patch?
<kiko> ah, thanks.
<carlos> Kuhrscher: yeah, the .pot file is broken
<salgado> stub, kiko, I just reported https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/61288. any idea how that could have happened?
<Kuhrscher> Carlos: Thanks for checking it
<carlos> Kuhrscher: Jonathan is fixing that issue with other template in kdebase, and he just told me that will fix those ones too
<stub> salgado: Your script doesn't actually connect to the db - might need some basic testing
<Kuhrscher> Do we have to upload all translations manually or will they be implemented automatically?
<kiko> salgado, that kinda sucks, eh?
<kiko> salgado, how long ago was it created?
<stub> Could have been a manual update sometime
<salgado> stub, ah, sorry.  that code is meant to be run in a "make harness" section
<salgado> session
<stub> whatever that means
<Kuhrscher> Carlos: Do we have to upload all translations manually or will they be implemented automatically?
<carlos> Kuhrscher: for ubuntu, they are updated automatically with every new package upload into Ubuntu's archive
<salgado> stub, an interactive session. either python -i canonical/database/harness.py or simply "make harness"
<salgado> stub, that is not actually a script... is just a collection of hacks I used to use when I had access to staging
<kiko> salgado, why don't you have access to staging any longer?
<salgado> kiko, matsubara is going to check that for us
<Kuhrscher> Carlos: Yes I know, but this won't be really a package upload right?
<salgado> kiko, no idea
<carlos> Kuhrscher: yes, it is
<Kuhrscher> Great :)
<Kuhrscher> Carlos: Thank you
<kiko> salgado, it is now accessed from devpad. have you tried from there?
<salgado> actually, I think I had access to staging only for one or two days
<salgado> yeah, it lasted until it was rebuilt
<salgado> it wasn't "official" access
<salgado> kiko, it was created on 2005-06-15, but we can't tell when it was merged
<kiko> salgado, when was the account where it was merged to created?
<matsubara> > select name, merged, datecreated from person where name = 'suttondavid';
<matsubara>     name     | merged |        datecreated
<matsubara> -------------+--------+----------------------------
<matsubara>  suttondavid |        | 2005-11-30 07:20:59.936869
<matsubara> (1 row)
<kiko> so recently merged
<kiko> weird
<salgado> recently?
<salgado> it could have been merged last week or 10 months ago... we can't tell for sure
<kiko> well, less than a year ago.
<kiko> salgado, could it be  race condition, i.e. gina ran at /exactly/ the same time as this dude was created?
<salgado> at the time it was merged, you mean?
<salgado> I doubt that, because gina wouldn't set a preferred email
<salgado> s/wouldn't/shouldn't
<kiko> humm.
<kiko> what about the guy has a token open for a preferred email
<kiko> then merges
<kiko> then approves the token?
<kiko> do we check for pending tokens?
<salgado> the token should have been carried, AFAICS
<kiko> I guess.
<salgado> stub, did you manage to run that hackish script on the interactive session?
<andrunko> i uploaded my package to launchpad.net (only the debian dir) to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~telepathy/telepathy-qt/ubuntu, how can i upload the source package to get it to build?
<andrunko> hi all btw :)
<kiko> andrunko, heh, you're a month or so ahead of us. we don't have a custom package-building facility yet
<andrunko> heh
<andrunko> so what should i do to get it to build?
<kiko> andrunko, well, you could talk to a motu at #ubuntu-motu..
<kiko> andrunko, what are you trying to build?
<andrunko> kiko: i would like to add telepathy-qt to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+queue
<kiko> andrunko, talk to a motu. 
<andrunko> ok
<stub> salgado: sodium:~stub/invalid-people-with-non-bug-references.txt
<flacoste> kiko-afk: remdinder to reply to the pending unresolved issues on SupportTrackerWorkflowSpec
<salgado> stub, you rock! thanks a lot again
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61296 in rosetta "Please remove "no" from picard" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61296
<kiko> stub, I have an SQL question for you.. have amoment?
<cprov> kiko: ping
<kiko> cprov, pong
<kiko> ahoy there.
<cprov> kiko: hi, do you think we can apply the partial fix for bug #58144 in soyuz production (see https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/filePGGlNa.html)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58144 in soyuz "Backport is rejected if an older backport is already there" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58144
<kiko> cprov, it's a simple change isn't it?
<cprov> kiko: the RF 4066 can't be applied entirely ...
<kiko> oh?
<cprov> kiko: I've isolated the important chunk to nascentupload
<cprov> kiko: dude, the current codeline is RF3909 based with tons of cherrypicks (17) and a local change ... i.e. a mess ;)
<kiko> which local change?
<cprov> kiko: on of the malcc bug fix, commited in RF but the changeset could not be applied too, let me see the bug number
<cprov> kiko: bug # 58187
<cprov> bug #58187 ?! Mr. bot ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58187 in soyuz "uploads to frozen should land in unapproved, not be rejected" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58187
<cprov> ahh
<kiko> hmm
<kiko> cprov, isn't there yet another bug related to backports? or is that proposed?
<cprov> kiko: dunno, the other backport related was broken release file or so, fixed during mawson tests, but we may be talking about different things ...
<cprov> kiko: ahh, sending announceemail to a different mbox when dealling with dapper-backports
<cprov> kiko: bug #59443
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59443 in soyuz "Soyuz should send announce messages for backports to different list" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59443
<kiko> no, I thought there was something else
<kiko> cprov, I am okay with you applying that there, I guess.
<kiko> malcc?
<cprov> kiko: nice, thank you 
<Mez> hmm - out of curiosity - which mbox will it be sent to ?
<kiko> hmm, can't remember
<Mez> also - when a backport gets uploaded - is it possible to set the Changed-by to the backports mailing list - :D so that the backports mailing list gets an email
<Mez> (atm - iirc, soyuz sends an email to the maintainer, the changed-by, and the person who signed the upload)
<cprov> Mez: announcelist & signer only 
<cprov> Mez: do you think we are going to have one ML per pocket (dapper, dapper-updates, dapper-backports, etc) ?
<Mez> cprov: well thats weird - because I remember getting mail as a maintainer when Riddell uploaded katapult
<cprov> Mez: only if you have preferredemail set in LP ... that's right
* Mez is confused
<cprov> Mez: at the end, announcelist + signer (always has preferredemail) + maintainer (if he has preferredemail)
<Mez> ah, kk
<webben> siretart, i'd like to try your vim7 build --- if i want the entire shebang, is vim-full all i need?
<siretart> webben:   
<kiko> flacoste, pong
<flacoste> kiko-afk: ping
<siretart> webben: err, check which package of vim you have installed and then upgrade the one you have installed
<kiko> flacoste, what do I need to look at?
<flacoste> kiko-afk: (about the unresolved issues on SUpportTrackerWorkflowSpec)
<flacoste> kiko-afk: you can take a look at https://launchpad.canonical.com/SupportTrackerWorkflowSpec
<webben> siretart, ah that was a whole batch of packages; i guess i should replace each of those then, thanks
<flacoste> kiko-afk: in the Unresolved Issues section, you'll find the summary with links to the emails in the archive, you were Cced on those
<kiko> okidok.
<kiko> hey BjornT?
#launchpad 2006-09-20
<jamesh> Python 2.5 is out
<crimsun> (and it's in Edgy)
<jamesh> I hope stub is okay in Thailand
<Jones_> How can I remove a comment I made? I pasted the wrong dmesg and I want to redo it.
<mpt> Gooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
<peridot> hello?
<mpt> hello peridot 
<peridot> hi, I'm not sure I'm in the right place; I have a question about using launchpad
<jamesh> peridot: ask your question, and if we can answer it, we will.
<peridot> does launchpad keep track of which releases contain a bug? (e.g., Ubuntu Dapper Drake has the problem, but it's fixed in Edgy Eft)
<jamesh> not at the moment.  There is work underway for "release targetting", so developers can decide which releases to fix a bug in, and track them separately in the bug.
<peridot> just, I was bitten by a bug in Dapper, so I filed a bug report; now it's closed and disappearing from the system because it's been fixed in the not-yet-released Edgy
<peridot> at best, the bug will probably be filed again by the next person who installs Dapper
<jamesh> with the new system, you'd be able to nominate that bug to be fixed in Dapper
<jamesh> and the developers would be able to make a decision one way of the other
<peridot> it also doesn't show up in my bugs list, even when I use advanced search and turn on "Fix Released"
<jamesh> was your bug marked as a duplicate?
<peridot> no, just "Fix Released"
<jamesh> there is another checkbox in the advanced search to show duplicate bug reports
<peridot> ah, I found it; doesn't help.
<jamesh> what is the bug report, and what bug listing URL do you think it should show up on?
<peridot> the bug: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/60973
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60973 in flashplugin-nonfree "Silently fails" [Untriaged,Fix released]  
<peridot> the unsuccessful search: https://launchpad.net/people/peridot-faceted/+assignedbugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=Unconfirmed&field.status%3Alist=Needs+Info&field.status%3Alist=Rejected&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Released&field.importance%3Alist=Untriaged&field.importance%3Alist=Wishlist&field.importance%3Alist=Low&field.importance%3
<peridot> Alist=Medium&field.importance%3Alist=High&field.importance%3Alist=Critical&field.owner=&field.status_upstream=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.tag=&search=Search
<peridot> uh, sorry
<jamesh> that's your "assigned bugs" listing
<jamesh> if you look at choose "reported" from the menu on the left, you should find your bug
<peridot> ah, sorry, that was silly of me
<jamesh> the choice of "Bugs" going to +assignedbugs is useful for developers, but not for users like you
<jamesh> (where you likely have no assigned bugs)
<peridot> could it just say "Assigned Bugs" if that's where it goes?
<jamesh> maybe mpt has some ideas of how to improve that :)
<peridot> it was also nice, in the Debian BTS, to see some of the closed bugs - so you knew somebody else had had the problem, and a new version of the package fixed it
<jamesh> well, we show "fix committed" bugs by default
<jamesh> which in the case of a single line of development means that users will see bug reports for issues that have been fixed but not been released
<peridot> but not "fix released"; perhaps my problem is that "fix released" is here being used to mean something a little odd
<jamesh> it has issues with multiple lines of development (e.g. dapper vs. edgy), as you've mentioned.
<jamesh> the release targetting might help here
<peridot> but if I am using (say) scipy 0.5.1 and a = transpose(a) deletes my home directory, it'd be nice to know that that was a known problem with 0.5.1 and it's worth updating to 0.5.2
<peridot> anyway, I find launchpad much more convenient than the Debian BTS or Bugzilla, so I look forward to seeing it get used more
<peridot> thanks for the help
<SteveA> good morning!
<SteveA> stub: nothing like an extra public holiday to curry popular support
<stub> More that they want everyone off the streets to avoid any panic or confusion while the important stuff gets sorted.
<stub> Popular support will go to whoever the king supports
<jamesh> so when do you think the next coup will be scheduled?
<SteveA> I guess when they need another holiday
<stub> jamesh: They average one every four years - this 15 year stint is a record
<SteveA> I see... like number 9 busses
<SteveA> none for 15 years, then 4 come one after the other
<lifeless> stub: you lie there has been a coup
<lifeless> http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/70409.html
<jamesh> lifeless: the Committee for Democratic Reform are the coup leaders
<carlos> morning
<juliux> morning
<juliux> which rights i need to add a event to a team calendar?
<doko_> carlos: ping
<carlos> doko_: pong
<carlos> doko_: how was the conference?
<carlos> juliux: I think you need to be the owner or an admin of that team
<carlos> juliux: but I'm not completely sure
<doko_> very informative. 350 people, up to 4 parallel tracks so you couldn't visit all talks.
<juliux> carlos, admin is not enough
<carlos> juliux: then, you need to be the owner....
<doko_> carlos: does rosetta can handle it, if I do not generate the GSI files for one build, if I know that nothing changed? i.e. are the translations of the last build kept?
<carlos> I guess that could be seen as a bug...
<carlos> doko_: that's the problem with big events in short time...
<juliux> carlos, thxs
<carlos> doko_: if you don't generate any GSI files
<carlos> nothing new will be imported into Rosetta
<carlos> so previous data will remain unchanged
<doko_> ok, so these translations are not marked "obsolete"?
<carlos> no
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<carlos> the only way to set a translation as obsolete is that the GSI with the english translations doesn't have a string anymore
<carlos> so if you don't import anything, nothing changes
<doko_> nice
<carlos> doko_: in fact, we will not know about the new release
<jordi> carlos: there's an interesting mail in rosetta-users where someone from the Dutch team is pissed.
<jordi> carlos: can you have a look?
<carlos> sure
<carlos> jordi: I agree with your answer
<carlos> jordi: if they fixed it for Dapper after the Edgy opening, it sounds either like a bug or like someone changing it
<carlos> I think we should start collecting more metadata about those changes
<carlos> so we know who and when did that change
<jordi> that would be good
<carlos> that will allow us too to know whether is a bug or a bad user
<carlos> jordi: btw... how's going that email about KDE?
<carlos> it's taking already too much time...
<jordi> danilos offered help last weekend. I guess I'll take the offer if I don't finish it today.
<carlos> yes, please, I think it should be ready before this Friday....
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61383 in launchpad "Team Calendar only writeable for the owner" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61383
<jordi> carlos: count on that
<carlos> jordi: thanks
<jordi> carlos: the queue urgency is over now, I can go back to stuff like this again
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61391 in soyuz "PackageFilePublishing views should include distrorelease not just name" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61391
<SteveA> mpt: ping
* danilos reboots
<cprov> spiv: ping
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61409 in launchpad "Disable SSL" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61409
<sabdfl> SteveA: how fast can i setup a new 360-degree review?
<sabdfl> i have a set of categories and questions
<sabdfl> this is for my foundation in SA
<sabdfl> one subject, 6 reviewers
<SteveA> sabdfl: 1 sec, I'll ping pov
<SteveA> sabdfl: privmsged you
* carlos -> lunch
<carlos> later!
<carlos> danilos: btw, after lunch, you owe me a couple of meetings...
<danilos> carlos: of course ;)
<SteveA> carlos, danilos: when you have time, I'd like a followup chat from some things carlos and I discussed yesterday
<danilos> SteveA: I'm fine with it anytime, don't know if carlos is out to lunch already
<carlos> danilos: I am, but saw the 'ping'
<carlos> SteveA: we are going to have the meetings I told you about yesterday after lunch
<carlos> SteveA: I guess we could have the followup after that
<carlos> is that ok for you?
<SteveA> I have a phone call in 2 hrs
<SteveA> with mark and kiko
<SteveA> it can be before that, or after that
<SteveA> mainly, I want to check into the timestamp/export thing
<SteveA> I still don't understand it to a level I'm comfortable with
<carlos> that doesn't affects our meetings, so we could have it as soon as I'm back from lunch
<carlos> 13:00 UTC ?
<carlos> I really need to leave, please agree on a time and I will attend (as long as it's after 13:00 UTC)
* carlos -> out
<SteveA> ok, fine
<SteveA> this isn't urgent, but I'd like to talk about it today somtime
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61428 in malone "Want a "subscribed to teams" portlet..." [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61428
<carlos> SteveA, danilos: Are you ready?
<danilos> carlos: #cm?
<carlos> danilos: launchpad-meeting
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61429 in malone "Would like to see *all* assigned/subscribed bugs" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61429
<kiko> good morning vietnam
<cprov> kiko: hey, morning
<kiko> how's it going
<cprov> kiko: fine, I've updated https://launchpad.canonical.com/NoMoreAptFtparchive, take a look when you have time
<flacoste> kiko: morning, let me know when you're available to finish our SupportTrackerWorkflowSpec chat
<malcc> kiko: Morning! Soyuz fixes are in rf, just started a last test-run to give rf-head the all-clear for drescher deployment, hope to complete this before my vacation days on Friday and Monday
<kiko> malcc, great to hear this.
<kiko> hey matsubara 
<kiko> how's the fish
<kiko> SteveA?
<kiko> hey bradb 
<SteveA> kiko: 
<BenC> hello lp folks
<kiko> hey BenC 
<BenC> I have a quick feature request, maybe it already exists somewhere :)
<kiko> okaaay
<BenC> would be nice if bug reports had a counter for "affected users" or something along those lines
<BenC> users having the problem could increment
<kiko> BenC, so you could come on and say "This bug affects me"?
<BenC> yeah, without kicking in another comment
<kiko> BenC, do you feel that subscriptions to bugs are not a good way of measuring that?
<BenC> and it would be easy to weight the bug at a glance
<BenC> kiko: No, because a lot of people will sub to a bug out of interest
<kiko> I'm not sure that's a "No". :)
<BenC> I have bugs where there are more "interest" subs than "affected by the bug" subs
<BenC> interest meaning developers working on it, upstream developer, etc.
<BenC> not people affected by the bug
<BenC> kiko: Plus with a counter, people could decrement and stay sub'd if the bug is fixed for them
* BenC hardly looks at the sub list in most cases
<kiko> BenC, I'm not entirely sure that a subscriber count wouldn't give you enough of the same effect you're looking for
<BenC> but the counter would have to be tied to the lp login, so people can't arbitrarily get more attention for a bug by falsifying the count
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> which does add to some of the complexity
<kiko> of implementing this feature
<BenC> well, would just need a single table, ref'd to bug id's and logins
<kiko> BenC, how about this: I could add a subscriber count somewhere useful in the bug page right now
<BenC> just an idea, though...something I've been wanting to see for awhile..the sub list is just kind of noisy, and doesn't really stick out unless it gets really big
<BenC> kiko: that would be a great start
<kiko> well, there's no counter for it :)
<kiko> if you find that to be useful I could try adding that to the main bug listing
<kiko> and if you found that after that subs still doesn't give you what you were looking for we can add an UsersAffectedByBug table.
<BenC> if you could subtract the "subscribed because they maintain the product" ones, that would be even better :)
<kiko> BenC, sure, but the numbers themselves don't have as much meaning as the comparison between numbers in different bugs.
<BenC> ooh, those are under "Also notified", so sub count would be good
<BenC> very true, checking all bugs in linux-source-2.6.17 and sorting by subs would be nice
<kiko> yep
<kiko> okay I will get my hands dirty with that sometime today
<kiko> let me get back to my CHORES
<BenC> sweet, thanks
<stub> salgado: Are you finished with your branch on staging?
<salgado> stub, yeah! I thought I told you yesterday that it wasn't necessary to disable the daily updates...
<stub> salgado: I wasn't sure when the script would finish ;)
<stub> salgado: I'll rebuild with brad's branch
<salgado> ah, right. thanks a lot again. :)
<danilos> carlos: ping
<carlos> danilos: pong
<carlos> let me get my power plug
<carlos> and I will be ready
<danilos> carlos: ok, I am letting you ;)
<carlos> I'm back
<jordi> hey
<salgado> stub, the db patch on my person-creation-rationale branch has an UPDATE. should this update be moved into another sql scripts inside the pending/ directory?
<malcc> Anyone fancy doing a quick review on an almost-trivial patch?
<jgi> hello everyone
<BjornT> malcc: sure
<malcc> BjornT: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file3ZFfGm.html
<BjornT> malcc: looks good. i guess i could comment on the indentation style, though, i'd have os.path.join on the same line as its arguments are on. i think it's slightly more readable that way.
<BjornT> i.e.: function(
<BjornT>   os.path.join('foo', 'bar'),
<BjornT>   other_argument)
<malcc> BjornT: Yes, that's probably better isn't it? I'll change it
<BjornT> i think it's easier to see that other_argument is an argument to function, not to os.path.join that way.
<kiko_> ah, the glorious internet
* carlos -> out
<carlos> see you!!!
* danilos --> out
* bradb & # lunch
<ddaa> I'm vaguely puzzled by my karma
<ddaa> I cannot make myself to believe that all the bugstuff I have done is worth less than a little specstuff, and some completely marginal supportstuff.
<ddaa> https://launchpad.net/people/ddaa/+karma
<j-a-meinel> spec work does seem to be valued much higher than bug stuff
<j-a-meinel> I suppose because that makes you a developer rather than just a bug reporter.
<kiko> j-a-meinel, it's because there are less people doing specs than bugs.
<kiko> I'm not sure I agree with this scale though
<kiko> I think the bugzilla.gnome.org karma scales are much more interesting.
<ddaa> kiko: I understand the motivation, but the emergent result is... puzzling at least.
<kiko> ddaa, agreed.
<ddaa> esp. since my karma has been bouncing wildly up and down lately
<j-a-meinel> is there any way to set the 'date-released' column for a new 'release' of a branch?
<j-a-meinel> I wanted to update some old records for bzr.
<j-a-meinel> https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/0.9/0.9  was released on 2006-08-11 but it defaulted to using 'today', and doesn't let me set it anywhere.
<j-a-meinel> Which means this page: https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/
<j-a-meinel> Shows the wrong release date.
<ddaa> j-a-meinel: you mean a "release", not a "branch", right?
<j-a-meinel> It is a release of a given product series.
* ddaa has no idea
<j-a-meinel> It may be something that requires db admin at this point.
<ddaa> I think all this Registry stuff has been in a no-mans-land in terms of ownership for years.
<j-a-meinel> Since 'edit details' only lets you discuss summary, etc.
<ddaa> j-a-meinel: I suggest you file a bug on Launchpad about the stupid default value and being unable to change it yourself, and a support request so somebody with the appropriate magic powers can do the fixes you want.
<ddaa> I think that's especially important since jamesh is currently working on a tool that will automatically create tons of releases.
<ddaa> so we should avoid polluting the database with bogus release dates
<ddaa> IMO, being unable to say "unknown release date" should even be a blocker
<j-a-meinel> bug 4557 seems to cover this
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 4557 in launchpad "launchpad doesn't ask for release date when adding a new product release" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4557
<kiko> malcc, why do you drop exc_info=True in uploadprocessor.py?
<kiko> oh. log.exception() doesn't have exc_info? :)
<ddaa> kiko: I've put in a helper for that
<ddaa> it's probably somewhere in the script logger stuff
* ddaa workraves
<kiko> ddaa, oh, pray tell where that is?
<ddaa> probably canonical.launchpad.scripts.log
<ddaa> The branch scanner uses it IIRC
<ddaa> (branch scanner is bzrsync.py)
<kiko> malcc, that sounds like a good place to put that method of yours!
<bradb> Do we have any examples of LaunchpadFormViews that don't use any schema or fields, instead rendering a form manually?
<bradb> I think I want to convert the noms form to an LFV, to achieve validation, error reporting, and other consistency, but writing widgets makes me feel terrible.
<bradb> Maybe I want to use LFV by filling a slot with my custom form, not including action buttons, and let LFV do the rest. Anyone else think like I think?
<kiko> BjornT should know..
<flacoste> matsubara: if you have a minute, could you run the following SQL queries on staging: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileFzS2fQ.html
<flacoste> matsubara: i want to get some global usage pattern on the support tracker
<bradb> Maybe I should just write a widget, but it does seem like the long way around, particularly because it won't be reused.
<SteveA> bradb: why would you write a widget?  do you need to present something entirely new?
<BjornT> bradb: i'm not sure i understand what you want to do. you don't want do use widgets, and you don't want to use the form template. what exactly from LFV do you want to use?
<bradb> SteveA: I need to present a list of checkboxes of releases that can be nominated.
<SteveA> just do it by hand
<bradb> SteveA: Done. But I wanted to convert it to LFV for error message, validation, and other consistencies.
<bradb> BjornT: I want to make https://staging.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1/+nominate behave like other forms, WRT error reporting, validation, etc.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  
<bradb> BjornT: I do want to use the form template. I don't have a schema.
<matsubara> flacoste: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/filebnlN2h.html
<flacoste> matsubara: you rock, thanks!
<matsubara> flacoste: you're welcome.
<BjornT> bradb: well, i think you need at least a field in order to take advantage of LFV. it'd be quite easy to create a List field, with value_type=Choice(). you could create a vocabulary on the fly to pass to the Choice field. then you should be able to use a standard MultiCheckboxWidget.
<bradb> BjornT: okay, will look into it, thanks
<BjornT> bradb: if you look in browser/bugtask.py, you see an example of  creating a Choice field on the fly. search for SimpleVocabulary.
<bradb> BjornT: got it, thanks
<flacoste> kiko: you should have received an email with the result of your AWStats query
<flacoste> kiko: executive summary: isn't available
<kiko> I saw that and wonder why
<kiko> in particular because webalizer does have it
<flacoste> and AWStats can generate the data, there is just no way to present it on one page
<kiko> how fucked up
<flacoste> (you have the reporting month daily averages at the bottom of the monthly report)
<flacoste> but even the year view, only shows current month
<flacoste> they just didn't think about an yearly overview report :-(
<kiko> <flacoste> (you have the reporting month daily averages at the bottom of the monthly report)
<kiko> where? what's the heading?
<flacoste> at the end of 'Days of the Month', there is an 'average' line
<flacoste> (my report is in French, so I might get the exact wording wrong)
<flacoste> but it's the second report on the main page (3rd if you count the Summary)
<flacoste> kiko: did you find it?
<kiko> ah!
<kiko> yes, thanks.
<AlinuxOS> danilo[out] s, ping
<AlinuxOS> oops :)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61508 in malone "Please change "request fix" terminology to something more accurate" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61508
<mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<Burgwork> hey mpt 
<ddaa> hey mpt
<ddaa> mpt: good thing I'm up late today, I'm expecting a reply to the email I sent you today :)
<mpt> ddaa, ok
<mpt> after I reply to bradb
<ddaa> fin
<ddaa> fine
<kiko> salgado, can you get me a quick review of an SQLObject fix?
<kiko> https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileup2dgr.html
<salgado> kiko, I'm reviewing another small branch right now. will do yours quickly
<kiko> thanks
<kiko> it's not complicated
<kiko> and it fixes the problem that stub was pointing out, sorting using that function stuart wrote.
<kiko> salgado, essentially, it wraps set operations in SELECT * FROM (...) so that the order by works.
<kiko> salgado, it only does that for non-accumulating queries, though, which I think is correct.
<SteveA> mpt: good morning
<AlinuxOS> mpt, good morning :D
<AlinuxOS> mpt, ah New Zealand! :D
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61519 in launchpad "Set operations in SQLObject can't handle ordering using functions" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61519
<kiko> salgado, that's the bug I'm trying to fix
<kiko> BjornT, ping?
<BjornT> kiko: pong
<matsubara> BjornT: ping
<BjornT> pong
<kiko> BjornT, I have a patch that uses non_ascii_* for the tests.
<matsubara> BjornT: does you recent work on BugTagsWidget address this kind of errors: http://launchpad.dev/products/firefox/+bugs?field.tag=&field.tag
<matsubara> ?
<matsubara> BjornT: actually oops is OOPS-261C675
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/261C675
<kiko> BjornT, would that mean r=bjornt for that branch?
<kiko> BjornT, https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileuB1cn2.html
<kiko> BjornT, or do you prefer using the renamed files?
<BjornT> matsubara: no, it doesn't fix those kind of errors. i'm planning to do some work to prevent those kind of errors soon, though.
<kiko> matsubara, I was going to say that -- BjornT has agreed to take up on this issue
<matsubara> BjornT: ok, thanks. I'll file a bug and assign it to you, ok?
<BjornT> kiko: no, i think it's fine. r=me.
<kiko> BjornT, you rock!
<kiko> thanks.
<BjornT> matsubara: sure.
<kiko> salgadooooo
<salgado> kiko, +            q = "SELECT * FROM %s AS foo ORDER BY %s" % (q, l)
<salgado> maybe use a name other than 'foo'?
<kiko> yes salgado?
<kiko> salgado, I changed that to TMP as you use above.
<kiko> BjornT, are you gone already or will you have time to review my additional patch to fix CVEs?
<BjornT> kiko: well, not quite gone, but i'd rather to it tomorrow instead.
<kiko> BjornT, okay. I'll follow up in email.
<salgado> kiko, I think it'd be nice to have a comment explaining why we have to special-case accumulations on _queryForSetOperation. other than that, looks good
<kiko> salgado, I'll add one. thanks.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61531 in malone "Forbidden error when trying to mark a bug as private" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61531
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61534 in launchpad "Subscribed Bugs is missing one bug" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61534
<kiko> matsubara, in bug 61534, is the bug missing a dupe?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61534 in launchpad "Subscribed Bugs is missing one bug" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61534
<matsubara> kiko: not, it's a fix released bug. I'm answering it right now.
<kiko> cool!
<bradb> bug 28697 may have helped avoid that bug report
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28697 in malone "Bug lists should show current search filter" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28697
<kiko> bradb, fixing that would ROCK.
<bradb> chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/bradb/launchpad/malone-remove-search-filter/ !
<kiko> bradb, "remove search filter"?
<bradb> kiko: yeah, that branch should have a patch that could be reverse applied to resurrect the search filter UI i built
<kiko> bradb, what search filter UI?
<bradb> kiko: that one i did a while back, remember? you suggested that I revert it, and then we were going to discuss it in more detail at the London sprint back then
<bradb> linkified search filter, etc
<kiko> hmmm
<bradb> because you suggested aiming for a more general thing that could modify the filter easily too.
* ddaa waves at mpt
<kiko> anyway I'm all for displaying the filter, bradb 
<ddaa> I'm starting to fall asleep, so tell me if you plan to reply in the next minutes.
<bradb> kiko: that branch would be worth looking at again then, when the time comes
* ddaa calls it a day
<ddaa> good night folks
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61547 in malone "BugTagsWidget crashes when it receives a list" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61547
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61548 in launchpad "Description/comment fields needs to cope with insanely large values." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61548
<kiko> "needs to cope" or "shouldn't crash"? :)
<matsubara> kiko: fixed
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61549 in launchpad "Description/comment fields needs to cope with insanely large values." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61549
<ajmitch> kiko: I saw a bug the other day where someone had pasted in 7MB of logs
<ajmitch> insane
<kiko> ajmitch, that person should go to jail :)
<ajmitch> and I wonder why my bug mail folder grows so large..
<AlinuxOS> hello,is it possible to give owner status to other person in launchpad?
#launchpad 2006-09-21
<matsubara> ajmitch: I don't think that's possible. With 5mb comment/description the form crashed hence bug 61458 :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61458 in Ubuntu "Unable to upgrade python (Edgy upgrade using Aptitude)" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61458
<matsubara> ugh
<matsubara> bug 61548
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61548 in launchpad "Description/comment fields shouldn't crash with insanely large values." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61548
<ajmitch> matsubara: maybe it was just over that, but the bug showed up in mutt as [text/plain, base64, utf-8, 7.0M] 
<ajmitch> bug 60859 if you want to see how they did it :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60859 in ubiquity "Error in installer (crashed) all the times" [Untriaged,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60859
<ajmitch> part of it is that it's hard to discover how to attach a file
<ajmitch> (when filing, I presume) :)
<matsubara> ajmitch: bug 30856
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30856 in malone "would like to be able to add attachment(s) while filing the bug" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30856
<AlinuxOS> hello,is it possible to give owner status to other person in launchpad?
<AlinuxOS> if yes, how ?
<kiko> bradb, another bug with nominations. if I add a new task using +distrotask, it adds it with a nomination (by joe random user, no less) -- try adding an evo bugtask to bug 1.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1 in ubuntu-meta "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<bradb> kiko-zzz: noted
<kiko-zzz> bradb, display issue only?
<bradb> kiko-zzz: er. i'm not actually sure what you mean. now that i test it out, e.g., https://staging.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/35601 , i don't yet see the problem
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35601 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[X600]  Black screen with DRI" [Critical,Confirmed]  
<kiko-zzz> bradb, https://staging.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/35601
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 35601 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[X600]  Black screen with DRI" [Critical,Confirmed]  
<bradb> kiko-zzz: was it nominated for those releases before you added the new tasks?
<kiko-zzz> well
<kiko-zzz> there were two tasks
<kiko-zzz> I added a nomination
<kiko-zzz> nominations were added for both
<kiko-zzz> then I added another another task
<bradb> kiko-zzz: ok, that's intended
<bradb> because the nominations are not specific to packages
<bradb> so, the display code displays the nominations for all affected packages
<bradb> i suggested that it may be clearer to display nominations right under the task table, instead of mixing them into each task
* bradb heads off, later all
<btn> oh
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61589 in launchpad-bazaar "would be nice if branch listing showed last commit date" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61589
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61590 in malone "upstream bugtracker "Inkscape" should be named to "SourceForge"" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61590
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61591 in launchpad "add "locale" to user information" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61591
* Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad.log
<mpt> SteveA, mailed you about the CSS
<carlos> SteveA: hi, around?
<SteveA> carlos: yes, I'm around.  But, I need to work with mpt and mpool for the next hour, then I have a conf call for an hour or so.
<carlos> SteveA: it will be 5 minutes
<carlos> it's about the question you asked me yesterday
<SteveA> carlos: ok
<SteveA> 5 mins is fine
<carlos> SteveA: after talking with danilo
<danilo[out] s> carlos: hi ;)
<SteveA> hi danilos 
<danilos> SteveA: morning
<carlos> We think that implementing the changes suggested by kiko would be around 2 days of my work (I will not implement some changes that are related to bug 30602 and that are the complex part)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<carlos> SteveA: for TranslationReview, we will not save any time, just win code readability, but for bug 30602 (it's a priority for 1.0) Danilo thinks that we could save 1 day or so of work
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<carlos> hmm did you got the whole sentence? xchat cut it in my side...
<danilos> carlos: (I did, try highlighting it in xchat, that usually turns it back up for me ;)
<SteveA> "save 1 day or so of work"
<SteveA> is the last text I got
<carlos> It should start as 'SteveA: for TranslationReview, we will not save any time, just win code readability'
<SteveA> yes
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> I suppose it will be a while before danilo starts on bug 30602
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<SteveA> if danilo is working on OOo and firefox now
<carlos> right
<carlos> in fact, perhaps I will take care of that bug instead of danilo
<SteveA> so, I'd say, do TranslationReview first, then look at the refactoring in preparation for bug 30602
<carlos> depends on who's more busy
<carlos> ok
<carlos> SteveA: thanks for your time
<SteveA> are you happy with that plan?
<carlos> well, it would require to change some things from TranslationReview code, but it's not a big issue
<SteveA> right
<SteveA> you'd be trading that off against having completed the TranslationReview code earlier
<SteveA> and also having more tests to check you're refactoring well
<carlos> yeah, that's why I'm not complaining ;-)
<SteveA> great
<danilos> SteveA, carlos, I'm fine with that myself ;)
<SteveA> I appreciate how you and danilo discussed it and then presented the issue clearly.
<carlos> np
<carlos> danilos: btw, what's the status for bugs #2181 and #3809 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2181 in rosetta "Rosetta automated e-mail should come from @launchpad.net" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2181
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3809 in rosetta "Abuse of capital letters" [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3809
<danilos> carlos: well, I have some code sitting for them, but without tests (those were the ones I started early on)
<carlos> danilos: ok, try to expend one hour or so every day to finish them so we don't block bug fixings with new features
* carlos will try to do the same with his open branches
<danilos> carlos: right, as we agreed earlier on
<carlos> danilos: thanks
<SteveA> mpt: ping?
<SteveA> mpt: ping
* danilos -> breakfast
<SteveA> mpt: global.js in icing has 0 length.  is that right?
<carlos> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/61366
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61366 in firefox "[Edgy]  Firefox crashes on sites with Flash if old profile directory is used" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
<carlos> SteveA: that bug has the flash plugin attached
<carlos> what's our policy about it?
<SteveA> what's the problem?  that the attachment is proprietory?
<carlos> SteveA: yes
<jamesh> I don't think you can distribute the flash plugin without a license, even though it is given away
<carlos> jamesh: no, you cannot, I just read their website
<jamesh> the library file content can be marked deleted, which will prevent it from being served (and should get garbage collected)
<jamesh> I think stub needs to do that though
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<stub> jamesh: Have you taken down demo.launchpad.net? elmo just got notified it was down.
<jamesh> stub: I did a quick code update for something else I was testing -- it should be up now
<stub> ok. Please give a heads up in #canonical-sysadmin - the guys have been told to treat it like other production servers.
<stub> (next time)
<jamesh> will do.
<carlos> stub: hi, did you see my comment about flash plugin being attached in a malone bug?
<carlos> stub: jamesh said that you could mark it as deleted
<carlos> stub: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/61366
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61366 in firefox "[Edgy]  Firefox crashes on sites with Flash if old profile directory is used" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
<stub> carlos: You mean http://librarian.launchpad.net/4320107/flash_plugins.tar.gz ?
<carlos> stub: yes
<stub> Done
<carlos> stub: thanks
<SteveA> carlos: thanks for adding a comment explaining it to the bug.
<carlos> np
<xadf> hi
<xadf> how is it that when i subscribe to bugs it is not shown on my profile page in launchpad?
<Fujitsu> xadf, make sure you're viewing the `subscribed bugs', the default is `assigned bugs'.
<mpt> xadf, by default your Bugs page shows only bugs assigned to you, not bugs you have subscribed to
<mpt> snap
<mpt> click "Subscribed" in the top left
<mpt> SteveA, pong
<xadf> mpt: of course, but right there thats what im talkign about
<xadf> it doesnt show all the bugs im subscribed to
<mpt> xadf, by default, it doesn't include bugs that are fixed or rejected
<mpt> To include those, click "Advanced" and check those checkboxes
<SteveA> hi mpt.  sent you email.
<xadf> mpt: ah thanks
<mpt> SteveA, thanks. Should I land my latest changes into rocketfuel?
<jamesh> xadf: it also won't show bugs you are subscribed to but have been marked duplicate (you can use the "Advanced search" link on that page to change this though)
<SteveA> mpt: please do (on the appropriate branch in RF, of course).  I already updated the server, so you can take a look there.  Mark will meet usman on monday, so we should prepare a briefing for Mark for that meeting, rather than mail usman.
<doko_> could somebody enlighten me on https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/247419 ? it's built, but the binaries don't show up
<jamesh> doko_: maybe cprov can answer your question ...
<doko_> jamesh: yeah, hopefully ...
<cprov> doko_: jamesh: checking
<cprov> doko_: binaries got rejected, need to check drescher log 
<cprov> doko_: give me a minute, I will check it for you 
<cprov> doko_: malcc found it ...
<cprov> doko_: 
<cprov> 07:50:17 INFO    Rejected:
<cprov> 07:50:17 INFO    openoffice.org-common_2.0.4~rc2-1ubuntu3_all.deb uses bzip2 compression but doesn't Pre-Depend on dpkg (>= 1.10.24)
<doko_> that's not true ...
<cprov> doko_: what kind of fancy stuff do you invoke for OO ? ;)
<stub> Launchpad meeting 35 minutes
<doko_> that means, that the -l10n build will fail as well :-/
<doko_> cprov: there's no chance to save this build?
<doko_> dpkg 1.10.24 is ooooold
<cprov> doko_: well, infinity can reprocess it to you, but I think it's hopeless 
<cprov> doko_: I mean, soyuz won't accepted if you try to re-upload 
<cprov> doko_: I don't know what this problem means precisely, I just know we will detect again in the next run.
<doko_> yes, I have to add this pre-dependency ...
<doko_> cprov: where is this pre-dependency encoded?
<cprov> doko_: dunno, sorry
<jamesh> doko_: the error is about the binary package, so presumably wherever you define other dependencies for that package
<doko_> jamesh: it's a packaging error, yes, but that's really the first place I know, where the infrastructure checks for packaging errors
<doko_> so the question was: which part of the infrastructure
<SteveA> today's launchpad development meeting is with special guest chair salgado.
<salgado> it's meeting time, guys!
<salgado> who's here?
<matsubara> me
<flacoste> me
<malcc> me
<SteveA> me
<spiv> me
<cprov> me
<bradb> me
<jamesh> me
<mpt> me
<spiv> lifeless sends his apologies
<salgado> cprov sends his apologies too
<salgado> BjornT?
<spiv> (he needs to be awake early tomorrow, so he's gone to bed.)
<carlos> me
<salgado> stub?
<BjornT> me
<stub> me
<kiko-zzz> me
<malcc> cprov sent apologies? But he's here...
<cprov> salgado: oops, what ?
<salgado> well, I thought cprov would be offline today.  anyway...
<salgado> == Agenda ==
<salgado>  * Roll call
<salgado>  * Agenda
<salgado>  * Next meeting
<salgado>  * Activity reports
<salgado>  * Actions from last meeting
<salgado>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<salgado>  * Bug report report (mpt)
<danilos> me
<salgado>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
<salgado>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<salgado>  * Sysadmin requests
<salgado> ----
<salgado>  * UI 1.0 discussions (Steve, mpt)
<salgado>  * (other items)
<salgado> ----
<salgado>  * Keep, Bag, Change
<salgado>  * Three sentences
<salgado> next meeting. same time, next week?
<salgado> any objections?
<SteveA> +1
<cprov> +1
* ..[topic/#launchpad:salgado] : Developer meeting: Thu 28 Sep, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<kiko> none
<salgado> activity reports.. who's up to date?
<bradb> I have a dentist appt next week, fwiw
<kiko> not me :-(
<SteveA> out of date
<cprov> up to date
<danilos> not up to date, repeat offender :(
<matsubara> up to date
<bradb> up to date
<flacoste> up to date
<ddaa> here
<salgado> up to date
<BjornT> up to date
<stub> up to date
<ddaa> up to date
<malcc> up to date
<carlos> out of date
<jamesh> not up to date :(
<sidarus> Is that a launchpad meeting ?
<SteveA> hi sidarus 
<jordi> ugh
<salgado> * Actions from last meeting
<salgado> * SteveA to put up a wiki page for the launchpad project to note disaster scenarios on, and mail the list about it
<salgado>  * SteveA to write up what needs doing to implement `__eq__`, `__ne__`, and `__hash__` for database objects
<spiv> up to date
<SteveA> This is the weekly launchpad development meeting
<jordi> hello, and missing a report of two weeks ago
<sidarus> SteveA: Hi
<SteveA> salgado: I'm still on the hook for those two items.
<SteveA> salgado: please leave them on the agenda for next week
<salgado> okay
<malcc> SteveA: Don't forget to incorporate disaster planning for the scenario where a disaster occurs before we've done the disaster planning :)
<mpt> I'm up to date
<SteveA> malcc: that would be disasterous
<mpt> and plannerous
<salgado> it's oops report time, then. go matsubara, go
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 61548, 1558, 30602
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61548 in launchpad "Description/comment fields shouldn't crash with insanely large values." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61548
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1558 in rosetta "Export request form should check for uniqueness of entry" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1558
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<matsubara> danilos, did you start work on bug 1558? I can take that one if you're too
<matsubara> busy.
<danilos> oh, two of them mine
<danilos> matsubara: I didn't start on it, feel free to take it away
<matsubara> Bug 61548 is about large values in comment/description fields. anyone volunteer to take that one?
<danilos> matsubara: sorry for holding it back for so long :(
<matsubara> danilos: okie.
<matsubara> danilos, any progress on bug 30602? This is the top timeout bug.
<carlos> matsubara: 30602 is blocked in a translation view restructuring and I think I will take care of that bug (not sure yet)
<danilos> matsubara: we've had a lot of discussions on 30602, it's blocked atm
<carlos> I will do the restructuring, so it's blocked on me
<kiko> danilos, carlos: let's talk about this translation view restructuring after the meeting.
<bradb_> urgh, disconnected
<SteveA> matsubara: I want to talk with you separately about 61548
<carlos> kiko: SteveA and we already agreed to deferred it after TranslationReview
<danilos> kiko: sure, though we already discussed it with SteveA
<kiko> carlos, SteveA, danilos: I have an alternative suggestion.
<kiko> but we can talk about it after the meeting.
<danilos> kiko: fine by me
<carlos> ok
<salgado> is that all?
<matsubara> salgado: yes, thank you. I'm done here
<salgado> * Bug report report (mpt)
<salgado> your turn, mpt
<mpt> There are 10 open Critical bugs in Launchpad. The oldest ones are:
<mpt>  * Bug #1558 (Export request form should check for uniqueness of entry), Critical, Confirmed, danilos
<mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, Confirmed, danilos
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1558 in rosetta "Export request form should check for uniqueness of entry" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1558
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<mpt> danilos, will you get to either of those two this week? they've been hanging around for a while
<mpt>  * Bug #44214 (We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
<mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
<kiko> (matsubara, is that the bug we were talking about yesterday?)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
<mpt> carlos, tell us about those two
<danilos> mpt: as mentioned previously, matsubara is taking on 1558
<matsubara> kiko: yes, it is. validation on +export
<kiko> cool.
<mpt> ah yes, sorry I missed that bit
<mpt>  * Bug #48860 ("Also notified" makes difficult to unsubscribe), Critical, In Progress, bradb
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48860 in malone ""Also notified" makes difficult to unsubscribe" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48860
<carlos> #46982 is blocked on danilos finishing with Fireforx support (we need some infrastructure work added there)
<danilos> mpt: as for 30602, low chances of it happening this week (blocked on some view restructuring by carlos)
<mpt> bradbdo you have a plan for that yet?
<mpt> ~bradb, do
<kiko> bradb, I can talk about that one with you after the meeting if you like.
<bradb_> kiko: sure
<carlos> mpt: #44214 is my next bug fix
<mpt> carlos, great
<bradb_> mpt: nothing too specific yet
<mpt>  * Bug #48948 (dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be), Critical, Confirmed, malcc
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48948 in soyuz "dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48948
<mpt>  * Bug #58187 (uploads to frozen should land in unapproved, not be rejected), Critical, Confirmed, malcc
<mpt>  * Bug #59003 (New override generation code gives MemoryError on real data), Critical, Confirmed, malcc
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58187 in soyuz "uploads to frozen should land in unapproved, not be rejected" [Critical,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58187
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 59003 in soyuz "New override generation code gives MemoryError on real data" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/59003
<mpt> malcc, tell us the good news
<malcc> mpt: 58187 is fix released
<mpt> wha
<mpt> it was open five minutes ago
<malcc> mpt: Just updated now
<mpt> that is good news then :-P
<malcc> mpt: 59003 is fix committed, also just done now; I'm not sure whether to list it as fix released, as the broken code was never actually deployed
<malcc> mpt: Either way it's fixed
<mpt> and finally
<mpt>  * Bug #54241 (We need a script or tool that prunes OOPS logs from sodium), Critical, Confirmed, unassigned
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 54241 in launchpad "We need a script or tool that prunes OOPS logs from sodium" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/54241
<mpt> Who should take that one? jamesh? stub?
<malcc> mpt: The bad news, dropped the ball on 48948 this week, need to discuss it with elmo, didn't get to it
<mpt> bradb, what's the plan of action for 48860?
<stub> either - I can take it if james is full
<bradb_> mpt: Like I say, nothing specific yet.
<danilos> matsubara: should I reassign 1558 to you?
<matsubara> danilos: yes please.
<bradb_> mpt: will discuss with kiko after meeting
<mpt> bradb, I meant the plan for coming up with something specific
<mpt> ok.
<jamesh> stub: okay.  I am not sure exactly what criteria we'd have for deciding if a report is referenced
<danilos> matsubara: ok, thanks
<mpt> There are also 8 Critical bugs marked as Fix Committed. Please remember to verify your fixes after the rollout.
<mpt> That's all salgado, thanks
<salgado> thanks mpt
<salgado> * Production and staging (Stuart)
<salgado> stub?
<stub> jamesh: Trawling the bug messages looking for Bug\s*\d+
<stub> Production systems are scheduled to be updated next Tuesday. I'll be rolling out HEAD as of now unless I hear otherwise.
<stub> There have been surprising few cherry pick requests in the last couple of weeks, which is great.
<stub> Steve noticed our first day without exceptions on production happened yesterday. Hopefully this was not just a glitch in the OOPS system ;)
<stub> Staging is currently running Brad's branch for testing.
<ddaa> stub: it would be nice not to have such long delays again, or lower the threshold for cherrypicks
<kiko> stub, I had a fix for CVE timeouts that is in final review (nudge BjornT) so if it could make it, it'd be nice.
<mpt> How can I make cosmetic fixes to bradb's branch, if it's not HEAD?
<malcc> stub: drescher is likely to be ready to be included in the next rollout, we've fixed up rocketfuel-head and re-tested it.
<kiko> mpt, branch off it.
<malcc> stub: Just one more issue to check up on, which is likely nothing; I'll send you an email if the situation changes
<ddaa> it's annoying to have to tell some user "this bug is fixed, but you have to wait three weeks before you can use it"
<ddaa> that, or do edge.launcphad.net soon
<kiko> ddaa, request a cherrypick.
<stub> mpt: Create a branch containing brads work and your own and get me or steve to push it to staging
<mpt> ok, thanks
<SteveA> ddaa: one purpose for this section of the meetings is for you to raise an issue like "I'd like xxx cherrypicked because of yyy"
<ddaa> kiko: it was not blocker bug, in that nothing really depended on being able to do that (set the branch of a series), and it involved a watershed db patch. So it was not eligible for cherrypick imo
<stub> ddaa: The threshold gets lowered if the rollouts are infrequent
<SteveA> and get some approval as that being important
<kiko> ddaa, well, db patches are indeed a problem..
<stub> ddaa: But edge.launchpad.net should address this too if it works as we hope
<SteveA> ddaa: either bring it up here, request it from stu, or decide it isn't a problem
<kiko> stub, not if it includes a db patch, AIUI
<SteveA> ddaa: but, don't decide it shouldn't be picked, and then complain about it later.
<stub> kiko: correct.
<ddaa> SteveA: okay
<salgado> is that all?
<salgado> okay, moving on...
<salgado> * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<salgado> Question Tracker 1.0
<salgado> ---------------------------------
<salgado> - SupportTrackerWorklow: Started. Workflow API is completed. Karma integration completed, UI is in progress, email integration and expiration cronscript are pending.
<salgado> - SupportTrackerViews: Waiting completion of SupportTrackerWorkflow.
<salgado> - SupportTrackerHelp: Waiting completion of SupportTrackerWorkflow.
<salgado> - LocalizedSupportRequests: Not yet started
<salgado> Random Things 1.0
<salgado> -------------------------------
<salgado> - PersonCreationRationale is up for review, including a script to guess the creation rationale of existing profiles.
<salgado> - DirectPersonRegistration has a tricky issue blocking its implementation, so it needs discussion.
<cprov> = Soyuz-1.0 Report =
<cprov>  * PPA: blocked on ArchiveRework (still).
<cprov>  * Archive Rework: some progress, malcc.
<cprov>  * Code quality: following standards for scripts/ftpmaster/queue
<cprov>    and setup dedicated ftest (motivated by fix 59291 & 59280, r=spiv).
<cprov>    Big win merging the post-sprint fixes/rearrangements in RF.
<cprov>  * SoyuzTestSystem: very nearly complete, RF 4079, last run produced
<cprov>    small diffs compared to the current codeline (Original-Maintainer
<cprov>    and X-Original-Maintainer, also i386 chroot issues)
<cprov>  * General Fixing: good progress, queue tool, Soyuz infrastructure,
<cprov>    end-to-end publishing cycle fixes
<cprov>    * Fix committed: 58144 and 58187 (RF 4066, RF 4063, partially rolled out),
<cprov>      60280, 59186, 59147, 59003 (RF 4079)
<cprov>    * In Review : 31392, 60440, 59291, 59280
<danilos> Rosetta 1.0 weekly report:
<danilos> - opening edgy for translation: DONE (some weeks ago)!
<danilos> - firefox import/export: import working, export blocked on TranslationImport finish
<danilos> - oo import/export: blocked on firefox (TranslationImport stuff)
<danilos> - translation review: UI part mostly done, code support restarted after delaying translation view restructuring
<danilos> - essential docs: no progress (danilos: RosettaHighlights, needs comments from jordi)
<danilos> - search: not started, pre-draft stage
<danilos> - checks not to upload wrong language PO file using "too many changes" check: not started
<danilos> - ui fixes: not started
<danilos> - outstanding issues: none
<ddaa> importd-bzr-native: massive code removal done. todo: final cleanups to remove deps on pybaz and gnarly, database patch
<ddaa> supermirror-smart-server: spiv reports very good progress, code is being merged to bzr.dev
<ddaa> bzr-roundtrip-svn (postponed): mpool is back, waiting for his feedback on the discussion that happened in the past weeks.
<bradb> Malone 1.0
<bradb> ==========
<bradb> series-and-distrorelease-mgmt: Spec'd ConjoinedBugTasks. Reverted in rf. Sandboxing on staging. Firefighting continues.
<bradb> keeping-bugs-concise: No news.
<bradb> guided-filebug-form: No news.
<bradb> malone-essential-docs: No news.
<bradb> simple-bug-keywords: No news.
<salgado> do we have one for infrastructure? SteveA?
<SteveA> I don't have a report for infrastructure
<salgado> I guess not
<salgado> okay
<salgado> * Sysadmin requests
<jordi> danilos: hmm, when are we supossed to comment that?
<danilos> jordi: well, as soon as I start pushing you ;)
<salgado> any pending requests?
* salgado counts from 5 to 1 without flooding the channel
<danilos> jordi: which means when I get more time: we need to discuss and document things like team organization, most important features, etc.
<kiko> I filed a bunch of rt requests
<kiko> but mostly on behalf of others
<jordi> danilos: ok
<kiko> so please speak up if you recall a pending RT request I requested for you
<salgado> kiko, are they urgent? do you have the #?
<danilos> jordi: you can take a look at help.launchpad.net/RosettaHighlights already
<kiko> salgado, lookin
<kiko> salgado, all done it seems
<salgado> cool. next item is...
<salgado> * UI 1.0 discussions (Steve, mpt)
<SteveA> so, mpt is working on the UI 1.0 stuff
<kiko> spiv, I didn't see an answer to matsubara's question about moin.
<SteveA> and I'm helping a bit
<SteveA> there are aspects of the 1.0 UI that will need to be implemented by people who know about those specific applications
<spiv> kiko: I haven't taken a look at what's wrong yet
<SteveA> mpt and I will be arranging meetings between mpt and maybe me and launchpad devs who work on applications, over teh next week or two
<kiko> spiv, well, please do, this is a pretty old bug..
<SteveA> to work out the plan of what pages need work, what portlets need work and if there's anything else to do
<SteveA> I don't think it will be a big deal
<SteveA> but we need to get this planned, so we know how much there is to do
<SteveA> I think that's all.  Any comment mpt?
<mpt> Not that I can think of
<SteveA> ok, that's it then
<SteveA> thanks salgado 
<salgado> any other items?
<salgado> thanks SteveA!
<danilos> thanks SteveA, mpt, looking forward to the mentioned meetings
<salgado> guess not
<salgado> * Keep, Bag, Change
<salgado> Change: No need to include bugs with the "oops" tag in the Bug report report, as they've been mentioned on the Oops report already
<mpt> salgado, sorry, I normally exclude them but I wasn't quick enough this morning.
<matsubara> we can try to coordinate before the meeting mpt
<danilos> keep: meetings around 30 mins ;)
<matsubara> what do you say?
<salgado> mpt, no worries. I didn't know you were excluding them. thanks
<mpt> matsubara, that would be great, just /msg me the bug numbers beforehand
<matsubara> mpt: okie
<salgado> okay, I guess that's all
<ddaa> three sentences?
<salgado> * Three sentences
<salgado> DONE: Wrote the script to guess the creation rationale of existing profiles, code review, fixed some shipit regressions, code review and other random things
<ddaa> DONE: more delete-gnuarch, talking with oscss people, import stuff
<ddaa> TODO: finish delete-gnuarch, spec to redesign +source, test and land BatchProgress
<ddaa> BLOCKED: no
<salgado> TODO: Get person-creation-rationale through review, fix the remaining things on mirror-management in order to make the final announcement, more code review and random things.
<salgado> BLOCKED: No
<cprov> DONE: bug fixing, code rearrangements guided by spiv,
<cprov>       SoyuzTestSystem helping and NoMoreAptFtparchive drafting.
<cprov> TODO: more bug fixing, soyuz rollout and ArchiveRework
<cprov> BLOCKED: no
<stub> TODO: edge.launchpad.net
<stub> DONE: sick, public holiday, bug fixes, DBA stuff
<stub> BLOCKED: No
<danilos> DONE: firefox import, TranslationImport drafting, bug management, discussions
<carlos> DONE: Approved a bunch of new .pot files for Edgy, bug #42760 fixed and merged, debugged and filed bug #61096 and #61107, Rosetta copyright doc, Dapper language packs hole debugging and figure a plan to fix it, bunch of meetings about several new features
<carlos> TODO: bug #44214, TranslationReview, translation view restructuring
<carlos> BLOCKED: No
<danilos> TODO: bug 30602, bug 1558, TranslationImport (in progress), bug fixing, rosetta search
<danilos> BLOCKED: no
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42760 in rosetta "Exception NameNotAvailable raised while trying to create a new msgset from submitted translation." [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42760
<BjornT> DONE: code reviews. fix bug tag validation bugs. some work on upstream forwarding workflow.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61096 in rosetta "Rosetta should allow '\r' and '\r\n' in the same msgid/translation" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61096
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61107 in kdelibs "Some stock strings are not extracted to be translated" [Untriaged,Fix released]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61107
<mpt> DONE: Righteous Rosetta bug fixes, CSS and template work
<mpt> TODO: Move house tomorrow, then back to CSS and templates
<mpt> BLOCKED: no
<BjornT> TODO: code reviews. more work on upstream forwarding workflow.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
<bradb> DONE: Release management firefighting. Loads of bug triage.
<bradb> TODO: ConjoinedBugTasks.
<bradb> BLOCKED: No.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<BjornT> BLOCKED: no
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 1558 in rosetta "Export request form should check for uniqueness of entry" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/1558
<flacoste> DONE: updated karma actions for new support tracker workflow, tunings of the support-tracker workflow spec, refactored some support tracker UI to make room for new workflow UI
<matsubara> DONE: paperwork for US visa, fixed #48851, bug triage, oops report analysis
<flacoste> TODO: support tracker workflow UI, update support-tracker email interface, expiration script 
<matsubara> TODO: oops report analysis, bug triage, add some test for my quick fix of #61428
<matsubara> BLOCKED: no
<flacoste> BLOCKED: no
<jamesh> DONE: code reviews, finish off Product.development_focus branch, product-release-finder stuff, bug export code, URI handling utilities
<jamesh> TODO: code reviews, branch puller logging changes, importd default interval changes
<jamesh> BLOCKED: no
<SteveA> DONE: ui work, management
<SteveA> TODO: ui work, management
<SteveA> BLOCKED: no
<kiko> DONE: various patches and fixes to random bits of LP. /32 phone calls. some management and review
<spiv> DONE: reviews, basic bzr smart server merged to bzr.dev, bzr+ssh:// urls, started smart server over HTTP.
<malcc> DONE: Finished testing soyuz, landed some branches
<malcc> TODO: Deploy Soyuz, ArchiveRework
<malcc> BLOCKED: No
<spiv> TODO: reviews, finish smart server over HTTP, bzr smart server/supermirror integration.
<kiko> TODO: deal with the next set of crisis on my hands
<spiv> BLOCKED: no
<kiko> BLOCKED: no
<danilos> mpt: uhm, remove 1558 from my TODO
<SteveA> I see no blockers
<jordi> DONE: queue, email
<jordi> TODO: KDE email
<jordi> BLOCKED: no
<salgado> nobody seem to be blocked, indeed
<matsubara> mpt: and add it to mine :)
<SteveA> excellent!
<salgado> I guess we're done, then
<mpt> Record time!
<salgado> thanks a lot, everybody!
<ddaa> jamesh: can you have a look at bug 4557, please?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 4557 in launchpad "launchpad doesn't ask for release date when adding a new product release" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4557
<SteveA> Thanks for running the meeting smoothly salgado.
<danilos> salgado: thanks ;)
<mpt> KEEP: salgado as chair ;-)
<malcc> mpt +1
<jordi> SALGADO!
<salgado> yay!
<danilos> mpt: you want to sit on him? :P
<salgado> no, please. not that
<jamesh> ddaa: sure.  The product-release-finder code doesn't set release dates either, btw
* SteveA -> lunch
<carlos> kiko, danilos: Do you think the meeting will be long? Is lunch time here
<jamesh> not sure what the best way to handle that is
<danilos> carlos: well, I'd rather delay it for after lunch
<kiko> carlos, danilos: no, but let's do it now
<carlos> so we can either have right now, or after lunch
<ddaa> jamesh: I'm mostly concerned about db pollution: setting incorrect dates to automatically releases
<kiko> SteveA, can I have you for 2 minutes?
<danilos> kiko, carlos, well, then sure
<kiko> danilos, carlos, SteveA: #canonical-meeting
<jordi> kiko, should I be there too?
<kiko> jordi, if you like -- it's about internals though
<ddaa> jamesh: if the current code can cope with NULL dates, just make sure that PRF uses the full power of NULL and please comment on the bug.
<jordi> can lurk
<ddaa> jamesh: the issues is that +addrelease uses NOW as the release date, which is generally wrong.
<SteveA> kiko: yes, in about 5 mins time
<kiko> SteveA, now or never..
<ddaa> Python import up to 22630 commits
<ddaa> and growing
<jamesh> ddaa: the database currently has that field set as not null, and seems to treat it as a creation date for the record and for ordering purposes
<jamesh> ddaa: would be good to keep it "NOT NULL" if possible, but allow editing the release date
<ddaa> jamesh: the issue then is that we cannot distinguish between "automatically set date, when this release object was created" and "date this release was actually made".
<jamesh> SteveA: btw, the admins were doing some changes to how the OOPS reports were copied to devpad.canonical.com, which might have been the reason for the "0 Exceptions" count
<ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/bzr says "0.9" Date Release: 2006-09-20
<jamesh> yeah
<spiv> ddaa: sweet.  Importing from the repository tarball?
<ddaa> spiv: yup, thanks for the hint
<spiv> ddaa: fwiw, HEAD is 51948
<jamesh> I wonder if looking at the modification dates on the files inside the tarball would be a good way to pick release dates in product-release-finder?
<ddaa> jamesh: in my experience upstream does not always have a usefully set system clock
<jamesh> kiko: sorry about missing your "bug 60574" patch.  You didn't use my current email address, so my email client didn't highlight it as being addressed to me
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 60574 in malone "Comments/Audit trail does not show multiple attachments" [High,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/60574
* carlos -> lunch
<kiko> jamesh, yeah, sorry about that. should I update my mutt_aliases?
<jamesh> ddaa: it's better than "now"
<jamesh> kiko: yeah.  james@jamesh.id.au is what I've been using for > 2 years now ...
<kiko> jamesh, my mutt_aliases file is VERY OLD
<kiko> jamesh, I hear there's another james that works at DAA?
<ddaa> jamesh: I think it's worth making a distinction between "date_created" and "date_released"
<jamesh> kiko: yeah.  They got a replacement James
<SteveA> jamesh: hmm, good point.  I guess that needs some looking into
<kiko> jamesh, and his email address is something like jamesw@daa? also interested in free software?
<kiko> jamesh, it freaked me out when I saw him on $randommailinglist
* bradb & # shower, bbiab
* SteveA ->  lunchtime
<jamesh> SteveA: the load on devpad has gone right down now, which is good.
<jamesh> kiko: he is jamesa@daa.com.au
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> terrible
<kiko> SteveA, GRRRR
<jamesh> kiko: he is even doing some Gnome stuff ...
<kiko> a real stalker
<ddaa> cheap imitation!
<jamesh> I wonder if there is some web page directing people to ask for Ubuntu CDs on the launchpad-users list ...
<Fujitsu> jamesh, it looks like it.
<kiko> jamesh, you mean, one apart from launchpad itself? :)
<Fujitsu> jamesh, I've never seen an email requesting them on any other Ubuntu list.
<jamesh> kiko: where does it say that??
<doko_> carlos: are the language files from openoffice.org 2.0.4~rc2-1ubuntu3 currently be imported into rosetta?
<kiko> jamesh, well, it doesn't say that exactly, but it does tell people to subscribe to the list. I get a lot of email to launchpad-users-owner, btw.
<carlos> doko_: not yet, still handling Dapper's one
<carlos> doko_: why?
<doko_> carlos: I just want to know, if these are scheduled. the reason is, that the binaries are rejected, but I don't know about the language data
<carlos> oh, let me check it for sure
<carlos> I assumed you uploaded them 
<carlos> I'm not sure whether they are imported in that case...
<kiko> BjornT, yo :)
<carlos> doko_: seems like we didn't get them
<BjornT> hi kiko 
<kiko> BjornT, how's the summer?
<carlos> cprov: could you confirm it?
<carlos> malcc: ^^^
<doko_> carlos: ok, so I have to keep the language file export enabled
<carlos> doko_: you mean to upload it fixed?
<BjornT> kiko: well, i would say it's gone :)
<doko_> yes
<cprov> doko_: lang-pack should be rejected too
<doko_> ok
* carlos -> lunch (this time is true...)
<salgado> cprov, have a minute for a quick question?
<cprov> salgado: sure
<salgado> cprov, NacentUpload.parse_address() can create person entries... would it be possible to know the package to which the changelog being parsed belongs to at the time we create the person entries?
<cprov> salgado: yes, it is, NU is pretty nasty, but its possible
<salgado> cprov, cool. how can I do that?
<cprov> salgado: let me check the code
<cprov> salgado: self.changes['source']   contains the source name, version & distribution are availble in the same way 
<salgado> cprov, great! thanks a lot, dude
<cprov> salgado: glad to help
<kiko> salgado, heh. you won't be thanking him much longer..
<salgado> hmmm. why's that?
<kiko> because nascentupload.py EATS BABIES FOR BREAKFAST
<cprov> kiko: It's my fault as much is yours ;) that code really needs urgent attention ... maybe during PPA. No changes in there would pass review procedure at this time
<kiko> even looking at that file is known to cause cancer in lab rats
<doko_> kiko: why does the archive has to enforce a dpkg version for bzip2 compress binaries, when this dpkg version is in all supported releases?
<kiko> doko_, I'm not sure. kamion seemed to think the rejection was valid, though
<kiko> bradb, I'm wondering why there is still code for nominations in browser/bugtask.py...
<malcc> doko_: Yes, we're neutral on that. If the distro team agree they don't want it, get a bug filed and we'll take it out, or make it a matter of policy and switch it off for ubuntu
<doko_> malcc: which component/product?
<malcc> doko_: soyuz, we're now using that for everything
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61654 in soyuz "overridable rejects would be nice" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61654
<kiko> BjornT, is it r=bjornt with that? :)
<BjornT> kiko: yeah
<kiko> BjornT, I'm a bit suffering with the placement of render_bugtask_status. :-(
<kiko> BjornT, let me explain why:
<LarstiQ> gosh, is lp timing out on me
<kiko> LarstiQ, what page, and what oops?
<kiko> kiko@beetle:~/devel/launchpad-randomfixage-20060919/lib/canonical$ grep -rl render_bugtask_status * | grep -v pyc
<kiko> launchpad/browser/bugtask.py
<kiko> launchpad/browser/cvereport.py
<kiko> launchpad/doc/bugtask.txt
<kiko> launchpad/doc/displaying-bugs-and-tasks.txt
<kiko> BjornT, I don't feel entirely comfortable importing from cvereport.py into bugtask.txt and displaying-bugs-and-tasks.txt
<LarstiQ> kiko: multiple, one of them: https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+calendar/2006-09-18, OOPS-264B461
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/264B461
<LarstiQ> kiko: https://launchpad.net/people/larstiq/+calendar is also fun, with a lot of repeated calendars in the subscription list
<kiko> LarstiQ, do you actually use the +calendar feature?!
<kiko> LarstiQ, and all your timeouts are related to calendar, right?
<BjornT> kiko: how is it used in browser/bugtask.py? i thought it was used only in cvereport (and tests)
<LarstiQ> kiko: of course
* bradb returns
<kiko> BjornT, it's not used in bugtask.py -- but in bugtask.txt.
<kiko> bradb! see above
<bradb> kiko: looking now...
<kiko> BjornT, it's looking like the best thing to do is to make this into a view.
<kiko> BjornT, in the tests I'll do a helper to getView(bugtask, "+status-html").. what do you think?
<LarstiQ> kiko: shall I file a bug on the repetition of calendars, or is it hopeless?
<bradb> kiko: which code?
<BjornT> kiko: if the tests in bugtask.txt are useful, then they probably should be moved to displaying-bugs-and-tasks.txt
<kiko> LarstiQ, it's filed, but I should warn you, the calendar is being disabled next tuesday. that you use it actively is a concern to me now!
<LarstiQ> well, I wouldn't call it 'actively'. But yes, freeze dats and such are in the bzr calendar.
<kiko> BjornT, okay for that part.
<kiko> LarstiQ, hmmm. hmmm.
<salgado> maybe we should send an announcement to launchpad-users?
<salgado> (explaining that the calendar will be disabled)
<kiko> that bothers me
<kiko> SteveA?
<BjornT> kiko: not sure you need a helper. just create a view on test_bugtask. then, instead of calling test_bugtask.statusdisplayhtml, call the view.
<kiko> BjornT, and render(), right?
<BjornT> kiko: well, either call the view itself, or call view.render() directly. __call__ will basically do initialize() and render()
<kiko> I did not know that. thanks!
<bradb> kiko: Which code do you see from release management?
<kiko> bradb, maybe I was on crack.. it was the code in BugTaskBackportView but now I see what happened
<kiko> neermind
<bradb> ok
* danilos -> lunch
<kiko> BjornT, do you have a suggestion for the view url?
<ddaa> There's some insane cruft in the db
<BjornT> kiko: not really. maybe +cve-report-status?
<kiko> BjornT, you and I have the same problem. :) tell me, what was statuselsewhere and displaystatushtml meant to be used for? bradb?
<bradb> kiko: the list view
<ddaa> archconfig, archconfigentry, branchmessage, branchrelationship, bug*infestation, *label, product*module, and that's only what I figure out to be unused tables.
<kiko> bradb, ah! this is why it's now unused!
<bradb> :P
<ddaa> I figure out that a few of them relate to hct, a few relate to some alternate schema for vcs imports that was never used, some relate to the mytical infestations, and some relate to a mysterious "label" scheme...
<ddaa> bradb: care about removing the infestation tables?
<ddaa> kiko: any clue what the "label" thing is about?
<bradb> ddaa: i think they could be removed
<kiko> ddaa, nope. :-(
<ddaa> And I have no reply so far to my request about the future of hct...
<ddaa> bradb: can you do a little patch for that, I'd rather have everybody clean up in front of his own door.
<ddaa> I hope that reviewers will prevent the introduction of more YAGNI tables
<bradb> ddaa: I will have to confirm with other people first, but sure.
<ddaa> the db schema is hard enough without having a dozen of mystery tables
<LarstiQ> kiko: is the removal of calendar documented anywhere?
<kiko> LarstiQ, no, and that's an oversight and error on our part. 
<kiko> LarstiQ, the current plan was disabling it and offering an ICS download of the data
<kiko> LarstiQ, if you think that's crack I can get us to reconsider
* LarstiQ looks up ICS
<LarstiQ> hmm
<LarstiQ> kiko: I don't really use any other calendar
<LarstiQ> kiko: other than that, will launchpad have an interface for adding events, or is that all offloaded?
<kiko> LarstiQ, it will be disabled, mainly because that portion of the site needs work and we don't have anybody to work on it before 1.0 :-(
* LarstiQ understands
<kiko> it's really not the quality it needs to be
* LarstiQ nods
<LarstiQ> It does have its use, but I'm not sure how much it will be missed.
<kiko> BjornT, I chickened out and XXXd it. :-(
<j-a-meinel> LarstiQ, kiko: I don't think bzr will miss it. It was nice to have a way to document the upcoming release calendar, but we can do it elsewhere.
<j-a-meinel> I can confirm that it had a lot of bugs, though.
<kiko> too many
<LarstiQ> oh yes, quite.
<SteveA> kiko: pong
<kiko> SteveA, see email
<SteveA> kiko: urgent, or can I get to it in the next 2 hrs?
<kiko> SteveA, in the next 2h is fine.
<SteveA> ta
<jamesh> SteveA/kiko: from what Nick wrote on the RT ticket, the OOPS rsync cron job will only do a full sync of the entire OOPS tree once a day now, and the 5 minute rsyncs will only synchronise the last 2 days of OOPS reports
<jamesh> so devpad is sitting with a load average of 0 now, rather than 3 or 4
<jamesh> we'll probably see new OOPS reports available in a more timely manner too
<kiko> cool
<jamesh> this leaves more of the IO bandwidth for things like pushing/pulling your branches :)
<SteveA> kiko: no email from you.  is it the email from colin?
<kiko> SteveA, no. it's the email about the calendar.
<kiko> Sep 21 11:37:16 anthem sm-mta[27739] : k8LEasgx027725: to=<mpt@canonical.com>,<steve@z3u.com>,<launc
<kiko> hpad@lists.canonical.com>, ctladdr=<kiko@anthem.async.com.br> (5107/1004), delay=00:00:22, xdelay=0
<kiko> 0:00:22, mailer=relay, pri=181011, relay=frodo.hserus.net. [204.74.68.40] , dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK
<kiko>  id=1GQPfr-000NMo-6Q)
<kiko> SteveA, should I not use z3u?
<SteveA> that will reach me
<SteveA> what is the subject line?
<kiko> jesus
<kiko>   F 6673 Sep 21 To Matthew Thomas   ( 0.4K) Removing calendar announcement on l-u                 
<kiko> SteveA, recurring email problems? is this email bonker week or what?
<SteveA> what recurring email problems?
<SteveA> my email's been fine
<kiko> why did you not receive this one then?
<SteveA> I'm looking at the mta logs
<SteveA> but, one is not recurring
<kiko> I have had email trouble all this week
<kiko> so for me it is
<kiko> at any rate it's hard to say whether you got my email and just ignored it or otherwise :-P
<SteveA> the z3u mta didn't receive the email
<SteveA> no record of that id
<kiko> hmmm
<jamesh> kiko: I got that email
<kiko> so did everybody else on launchpad
<SteveA> oh, here it is
<SteveA> weird
<SteveA> why didn't I see that earlier?
<jamesh> greylisting?
<SteveA> no... I had something in the filter box in thunderbird :-/
<SteveA> and I was grepping the wrong logs
<SteveA> jamesh: can we tell by querying the database who is actively writing to the calendar?
<jamesh> SteveA: how do you define actively?
<jamesh> we could check which calendars the last few hundred events were created against with a few simple queries
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> maybe also a list of the calendars with events in the future
<SteveA> and perhaps the number of such events
<kiko> salgado, ping?
<salgado> kiko, pong
<kiko> salgado, can you finish your last sentence in https://launchpad.canonical.com/DirectPersonCreation -- ?
<kiko> BjornT, I have a patch for you if you have a moment.
<BjornT> kiko: is it big?
<kiko> BjornT, no, but it's weird. :)
<BjornT> kiko: hmm :) what does it do?
<kiko> BjornT, removes the XXX I chickened out on. it requires some consideration though.
<kiko> and it causes a crash in a certain situation
<kiko> BjornT, https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileP9hcYS.html
<salgado> kiko, done
<kiko> salgado, thanks. I'll direct your question to mark.
<salgado> kiko, I've already mailed him
<salgado> kiko, and he replied
<kiko> salgado, oh. what did he say?
<kiko> wow
<salgado> Subject: Direct Person Creation
<salgado> on launchpad@
<kiko> argh.
<BjornT> kiko: in what situations does it cause a crash?
<kiko> BjornT, http://localhost:8089/products/firefox/+bug/2/+listing-view
<SteveA> are you guys talking about an oops, or something more serious?
<kiko> BjornT, in that situation, it crashes oddly, with a "self.index" attributeerror
<kiko> SteveA, a traceback in webapp code
<SteveA> if you get an OOPS report, please call it an "oops" not a "crash".  It's more obvious for users and readers of bug reports if we're consistent
<kiko> it's not an oops
<kiko> it's not even in production
<SteveA> and I'd like to reserve "crash" for something that crashes app servers.
<kiko> but nothing crashes app servers
<SteveA> ahem
<kiko> I tried
<SteveA> I wish you were right
<kiko> BjornT, what's your take on it?
<BjornT> kiko: well, for example, you could make self.index be a method returning u''
<kiko> what's self.index? :)
<kiko> BjornT, are you in favor of this approach, in any rate?
<BjornT> kiko: when you define a page in zcml and specify template="..", the template gets assigned to self.index as a callable, returning the actual page content.
<BjornT> kiko: yeah, i think it's fine.
<kiko> BjornT, hmmm. can I just define render()?
<BjornT> kiko: yeah, actually, that would be better :)
<kiko> heh
<kiko> BjornT, rs=bjornt then for the whole shebang? it's just updating tests from there on.
<kiko> BjornT, note that there is a BugTaskStatusView.. I'm not sure what that's for
<BjornT> kiko: well, better to show me the patch so that i can take a quick look at it, and give you r instead of rs.
<kiko> BjornT, goodie.
<BjornT> kiko: BugTaskStatusView is used for +viewstatus. i'm not sure whether we actually use that page, though.
<kiko> BjornT, https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/filespTx0z.html 
<BjornT> kiko: ok, r=me. one remark, though. assignee.name should be quoted using urllib.quote, not urllib.quote_plus
<bradb> BjornT: we use +viewstatus for non-JS luddites
<bradb> speaking of which, the top nav menu is a train wreck without JS turned on
* bradb checks if a bug is filed
<kiko> BjornT, sure.
<kiko> BjornT, should I have imported the view directly from browser/bugtasks instead of using getView() I wonder?
<BjornT> kiko: not sure, it doesn't really matter here. getView can be good to use if you need some zcml magic to happen, but in this case you could have imported the view directly. if possible, it's probably better to import the view directly, since it gets easier to see which view class is being used. i'm fine with using getView, though.
<kiko> BjornT, it's at least documented in the text. cool
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61697 in launchpad "Top navigation bar is messy with JS turned off" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61697
<salgado> malcc, around?
<kiko-fud> salgado, I have no idea why yet but OOPS-263D218 issues that expensive query twice. do you have an idea why?
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/263D218
<kiko-fud> salgado, if you could run a test using LP_DEBUG_SQL_EXTRA and mail me the results I can fix it for you
<cprov> salgado: can I help you ? (instead of malcc)
<salgado> cprov, maybe. I got some failures on soyuz-set-of-uploads.txt and I thought they could be the same failures that malcc was having last week...
<malcc> salgado: Got the traceback?
<salgado> I have no clue what changes I've done could have caused them
<salgado> sure
<salgado> https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileKKsge3.html
<salgado> this is just the first failure
<kiko-fud> salgado, don't forget me
<salgado> malcc, cprov, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileQkBFXs.html includes all failures
<salgado> kiko-fud, I won't ever do that!
<malcc> salgado: Have you touched any code in nascentupload in this change at all?
<salgado> yes
<cprov>     + ERROR   Unhandled exception from processing an upload     +  -> http://localhost:58000/66/pxn1SD2Aov3KtB036HV4nZkHSHX.txt ('NascentUpload' object has no attribute 'changes_maintainer')
<malcc> cprov: Yes, this test tests the new code which tries to make it a reject, not a fail, when some exceptions happen
<salgado> aha!
<salgado> okay, I'll make it print the whole exception and then I'll find what's wrong with my code
<malcc> So, some change has caused this value not to be available at this time, after this particular strange codepath
<salgado> I guess I have something to play with for now. thanks malcc, cprov
<cprov> salgado: yup, this code is hell, feel free do make you diff available somewhere so I can try to help you some effectively.
<malcc> The first error, which is expected, comes up on line 744 of the unmodified code, but usually, if it gets that far, changes_maintainer will have been set, so the attempt to reject will be ok
<salgado> cprov, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file4KHiTk.html contains my changes to that file
<cprov> salgado: k
<malcc> salgado: Ok, I suspect the new code here is causing an exception in this case, and hitting the bare except in Soyuz upload processing
<salgado> exactly. I've changed the bare except to re-raise
<salgado> so I'll see what's wrong
<salgado> or rather, the code path that caused self.changes_maintainer to not be set
<malcc> The newer tests for upload processing call in behind the bare except to process an individual upload, and therefore give useful errors when they fail
<malcc> Eventually they'll all be like that, hopefully
<malcc> Except one or two, to test the code with the bare except works :)
<SteveA> rather than use a bare except, use except Exception:
<SteveA> then when we switch to python 2.5, that'll allow KeyboardInterrupt through
<SteveA> as well as SystemExit
<SteveA> but right now, it will have the same effect for you as except:
<malcc> SteveA: Cool. At the moment we explicitly re-raise KeyboardInterrupt and SystemExit
<SteveA> that's good
<SteveA> so, the only change I'd suggest is changing the bare except for except Exception:
<salgado> omg, there were two different places swallowing my exception.  I had to add two "raise"s to be able to see it
<salgado> now I can see how much trouble you guys have when working with this code
<salgado> cprov, malcc, so the problem is because I acess self.distrorelease, which in turn raises an UploadError(Unable to find distrorelease: unstable)
<cprov> salgado: malcc wants to catch it in UploadProcessor and turn the exception into a rejected upload.
<salgado> I guess there are some preconditions in order to use self.distrorelease, and that's why I'm having problems.  but I have no idea what these preconditions are
<salgado> eh?
<malcc> Yes, the real wtf with the excepts isn't that the upload processing script has to handle unexpected errors, it's that all our testing of it is functional and has to work around the handling
<malcc> salgado: Welcome to nascentupload. I'll take a look and try to work it out...
<malcc> salgado: Ok, the property for distrorelease looks mostly stable, so the precondition is just that the distrorelease specified in the upload can be found
<malcc> Which is why this is only coming up in the test case for an upload to a distrorelease which doesn't exist
<salgado> ah, right. so I just need to catch UploadError and use some random string as the release name when the distrorelease is not found, because everything is going to be rolled back in the end, right?
<salgado> malcc, can I make the above assumption?
<malcc> salgado: Yes, that would work
<malcc> salgado: I'm racking my brains for a nicer way, but that's the tragedy of nascentupload - add another slightly smelly hack to get your change working, or try to rebuild the whole thing
<salgado> malcc, I could just move the self.changes_maintainer = self.parse_address(changes['maintainer'] ) to after the self.policy.setDistroReleaseAndPocket() one on verify_changes
<salgado> with a big comment explaining why it needs to be there
<malcc> salgado: No, that'll cause the same error in that test case
<salgado> that's right
<malcc> Maybe the error handling for a bad upload can be smarter about locating the person. I just tried assuming the nascentupload code would have already located the person, and felt lucky it worked
<malcc> Hmm, dinner's ready, I have to run
<kiko> BjornT, is there a "proper" way to get a canonical_url for the bugs facet?
<SteveA> kiko: what do you mean "the bugs facet"?
<kiko> well /+bugs
<SteveA> right now, there is no proper way to get that
<kiko> yeah.
<kiko> it would be good if there was
<kiko> would make it less painful to migrate to bugs.foo later.
<SteveA> I'll be adding a proper way for that when we move bugs to bugs.launchpad.net
<kiko> SteveA, yeah, but if we added it before.. we'd have less trouble then. anyway, cool.
<lamont> 
<kiko> jones
<fabbione> consigliere!
<lamont> must remember to not hit keyboard when not meaning to
<lamont> and must go fetch (sick) kid from school.  back online in a bit
<lamont> and will read scroll back then
<radix> is there a way to see all bugs I've reported on launchpad?
<salgado> radix, /people/you/+reportedbugs
<radix> cool, thanks. I found a link to +assignedbugs but not to +reportedbugs
<salgado> they should all be visible once you're on the bugs facet of your launchpad page. if the +reportedbugs one isn't there it's a bug
<kiko> radix, look at the top left corner of your assigned bug pages
<kiko> it's there salgado 
<kiko> it's just invisible
<salgado> then it's a different bug
<salgado> :)
<kiko> it's in one of them blue boxes
<kiko> not the one that lets you make free phone calls
<kiko> the other one
<radix> kiko: ahhh
<kiko> yes that is terrible
<kiko> we award medals to people that find it though
<radix> kiko: damn, so I lost
* LarstiQ still hasn't gotten his medal :(
<kiko> LarstiQ, what's your mailing address?
<kiko> LarstiQ, oh oh wait. aren't you supposed to fix a bug for me?
<LarstiQ> kiko: nope!
<kiko> hmmm
<LarstiQ> as I can't seem to fix it, I've orphaned it
<kiko> you can't seem to fix it? snif
<kiko> what's the bug # again?
<LarstiQ> #30576
<kiko> bradb, wanna talk about the unsubscribe issue?
<bradb> kiko: I was just about to ask you the same thing, now the seb helped my evo stopped crashing
<bradb> poor evo
<bradb> i emailed ubuntu-devel earlier today, for more insight
<bradb> and talked to BjornT and Kamion for other, related information
<bradb> kiko: so, in the longer term, i think unsubscribing from any bug should be allowed
<bradb> but, creating situations where people are getting so annoyed from bug spam that they have a desparate urge to unsubscribe is another problem
<kiko> bradb, right. in the short term, how about just doing the unsubscribe from dupes issue?
<kiko> and not subscribing assignees of dupes
<kiko> or other implicit subscribers
<bradb> hm, that's not an easy solution
<kiko> why not?
<bradb> because it's a very incomplete solution, imho, and doing it well enough to be vaguely complete may be almost as difficult as ignore subs
<bradb> and, i think we can consider an even simpler first step, possibly. way, way, simpler
<kiko> ftr unsubscribing people from dupes should be pretty easy.
<radix> hooray, now that I can find all the bugs I've reported I can systematically go through them and add "bump" posts
<bradb> kiko: with an ignore subscription yes. without an ignore sub, the best we can do is hackishly solve half the problem.
<kiko> without an ignore sub, it's pretty easy.
<bradb> i.e. indirect subs on the dupe get left out in the cold
<kiko> what is your suggestion, anyway.
<kiko> indirect subs on the dupe should not be subscribed to the dupe.
<bradb> kiko: i was considering starting by not sending the "that bug is a dupe of this bug" mail to the dupe target subscribers.
<bradb> but continuing to generate the "your bug is a dupe of that bug" mail
<kiko> there's a bug open on that. I'm kinda okay with that, but it's a hack
<kiko> is that the only suggestion you have?
<kiko> I mean
<kiko> is that the "way way simpler" suggestion?
<bradb> yeah, for a first step to ignore subs
<bradb> i don't think it's really a hack, fwiw. certainly much less so than unsub from dupes.
<bradb> i was also considering not sending dupe bug mail at all, but that's what i'm asking ubuntu-devel about. and also thinking about what kinds of reports we could build, in LP, to help devs assess the dupe triaging effort.
<kiko> so I have a pretty different view on this 
<kiko> I think that
<kiko> a) we should allow people to unsubscribe from dupes semi-transparently
<kiko> b) that implicit subscribers of dupes should not be subscribed
<kiko> c) that the status table on the dupe bug be omitted
<kiko> d) that if that still causes problems, consider doing the mail hack
<bradb> a. why only "semi-transparently"?
<bradb> why should subscribe/unsubscribe feel any different, for this casE?
<kiko> bradb, well, the user would know that he is actually unsubscribing from a dupe.
<kiko> because he is subscribed to the dupe, not to the main bug.
<kiko> just in the spirit of making the model clear.
<bradb> kiko: are you considering the other unsubscribing use cases here, like, say, unsubscribing a bug contact?
<kiko> <kiko> b) that implicit subscribers of dupes should not be subscribed
<kiko> ah
<kiko> the bug contact for that bug?
<bradb> yeah
<kiko> nope.
<kiko> he will be unable to subscribe for now.
<bradb> I think it's an important consideration
<kiko> perhaps. but for now, I think it's okay
<kiko> it's not hard to tell a bug contact to drop email from a bug. it's hard to tell the mass of subscribers in the world to do that..
<bradb> i agree. i'm just considering that use case though, in thinking about this solution
<bradb> and considering another thing, which is that if we're causing so much grief for people that they're begging to unsub, that's indicative of a problem that isn't just sub/unsub; it's about the mail we're sending out
<bradb> so far, the only two ubuntu people i've heard from have responded favourably to not generating "X is a dupe of your bug" mail. Colin liked it, for example, though he mentioned that it might cause other problems
<salgado> kiko, you got mail
<kiko> salgado, cool
<bradb> like, the still outstanding issue that often one of the people from the dupes you don't want getting mail is, in fact, a bug contact (like ubuntu-bugs). so what if we considered adding these two solutions together?
<bradb> starting by 1. not sending dupe mail to indirect subs and 2. not sending "X is a dupe of your bug" mail?
<bradb> er
<kiko> bradb, yeah.. I guess I see your point.
<kiko> the thing is
<kiko> I can totally appreciate that email saying that new dupes of my bugs were filed!
<kiko> it helps decide whether or not people are running into it
<bradb> hm
<bradb> kiko: is it important enough a feature to warrant the spam?
<bradb> vs., say, a message at the top of the screen saying "this bug has been reported _14 times_" and/or lists of "most common bugs"?
<kiko> the former sounds okay. but where would 14 times link to.
<kiko> salgado, I have a question for you.
<bradb> kiko: it could be an expander listing the dupes. I was discussing this in a bug report with mpt the other day.
<bradb> i think he liked the idea
<kiko> bradb, I remember, but I don't remember the expander. I'd be okay with just the text though.
<bradb> the idea was that it could allow us to remove the portlet
<kiko> so.. I would be fine with doing those three things.
<kiko> oh
<kiko> you wanna do that?
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> I'm not so hot about that change
<bradb> why's that?
<kiko> dunno.. I think because I'm used to where it is now
<bradb> from my perspective, it seems hidden, and not easy to make sense of even if you do see it, as it currently stands
<kiko> not sure
<kiko> why don't we do that in a separate step?
<kiko> could be just that I need a week of adjusting to the change
<bradb> sure, i'm not suggesting this should be done all at once, just giving some ideas for future iterations
<bradb> i also think the unsub from dupes think isn't so bad if we don't send mail to indirect dupe subs, fwiw. i just can't help wanting to avoid pissing people off to begin with, which is why i got interested in changing the mails we send too.
<bradb> kiko: so, between changing the mail, adding a notification bubble to the top of the screen, removing the dupes portlet, unsubing from dupes, etc. what path do you think we should take for implementing this?
<bradb> (i'm all for trying 1. not sending dupe mail to dupe targets, 2. 14 times, 3. unsub from dupes, 4. remove dupes portlet, 5. more changes)
<bradb> 10. ignore subs
<bradb> (maybe)
<kiko> well
<kiko> what about b) and c) above
<bradb> b. i think the would be much less annoyed if 1. were implemented (though, of course, for getting away from flame wars, they'd need unsubbing). and we could even include not mailing indirect subs from dupes in 1.
<kiko> if you do b) I think then 1,2,3 is a good choice for a landing.
<bradb> ok. re: c. i'm not yet sure, but intuitively, not showing the table doesn't seem quite right.
<kiko> maybe
<kiko> I like the idea but I'm not sure of the fallout!
* carlos -> out
<carlos> see you!!!
<carlos> kiko: btw, did you talked with Steve?
<bradb> kiko: bottom of bug 52613 is where i babbled, btw
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52613 in malone ""Duplicate" system is conceptually erroneous" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52613
<kiko> carlos, yes, he said okay.
<carlos> ok
<carlos> thanks
<kiko> bradb, I've had that bug open for a LONG time now
<carlos> see you tomorrow!!!!
<kiko> cprov?
<bradb> kiko: Should I email launchpad@ then, summarizing the dupes discussion?
<kiko> bradb, summarizing the dupes resolution, yes. list possible future work. and get to it! :)
<bradb> kiko: right. there is also ConjoinedBugTasks on which to twist my brane today. :/
<cprov> kiko: yes
<kiko> bradb, jury's still out on that so this may be a welcome rest..
<kiko> cprov, did we add that check for bzip2 compression recently?
<kiko> the one which caused doko's upload to fail I mean
<bradb> kiko: yeah
<cprov> kiko: no, it was always there 
<kiko> cprov, thanks. I was curious
<cprov> kiko: np, I've never seen this error before (code is entirely inherited from dak)
<kiko> cprov, matt was asking if we could pending approval instead of rejecting?
<kiko> salgado, xx-shipit-search-for-requests ?
<salgado> yep
<LaserJock> are the @ubuntu.com email addresses handled by LP?
<cprov> kiko: eh, not easily, you know the code.
<kiko> LaserJock, not really. what's up?
<kiko> salgado, non-browser test.. ARGH
<kiko> oh, is it because of the Host: header?
<LaserJock> kiko: hmm, well I switched my preferred email and now LP emails go to the new one, but @ubuntu.com email goes to the previous one
<LaserJock> kiko: I've switched it before without problem
<kiko> LaserJock, what's your Launchpad username?
<LaserJock> kiko: mantha
<kiko> LaserJock, I placed an RT request for you, will either be sorted out or will have some feedback by next week.
<kiko> salgado, r=salgado on the fix?
<LaserJock> kiko: excellent thanks
<salgado> kiko, I haven't seen it yet
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61735 in malone "Can't sort by column on +reportedbugs, +subscribedbugs" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61735
<kiko> salgado, please look at it, I have my finger on the trigger
<salgado> you always do
<salgado> kiko, I don't quite like the name of the property. maybe current_shipitrequests_batch() or something like that?
<salgado> hmmm. the return shortlist( ...) line has a space right after the "(" and more than 80 cols
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61737 in launchpad "Users should be able to choose who actually answered their support requests" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61737
<kiko> salgado, shipitrequests is fine.. it's only used there.
<salgado> kiko, but it's confusing. it may seem that it contains all the requests and not only the current batch
<salgado> kiko, also, request_totals() looks like a method, because request is also a verb
<kiko> salgado, but requests_totals() is not english. :)
<salgado> kiko, then maybe totals_for_requests()
<kiko> okay
<kiko> it would have to be totals_for_current_requests following your logic!
<kiko> I'm okay with totals_for_requests
<kiko> and we can just call the property requests if you like
<kiko> current requests is overkill
<salgado> requests_batch?
<kiko> ah
<kiko> why?
<salgado> I always try to avoid the name request alone in view code, you know why
<kiko> so shipitrequests was fine!
<salgado> I prefer current_shipitrequests_batch
<kiko> there is no need to say current
<kiko> seriously
<salgado> it's only used in two places
<kiko> I need to rename everything in the template
<kiko> and it's really unnecessary
<salgado> why not shipitrequests_batch
<salgado> ?
<salgado> :%s/shipitrequests/shipitrequests_batch/gc
<kiko> what does _batch, or current_, give you?
<kiko> shipitrequests in no way implies it's all the requests in the world
<kiko> it says it is just a collection of shipitrequests
<salgado> the _batch helps making it clear that I'm not dealing with all the requests returned by the search() method
<kiko> salgado, the potential for confusion there is approximately zero.
<salgado> let's make it zero, then. :)
* kiko dies
<shipit> oh no
<shipit> if kiko dies
<shipit> who will fix my timeouts
<kiko> salgado, you killed kiko!
<kiko> you bastard
<salgado> hahahah
<kiko> hmm, the id line sort of gave it away
<LarstiQ> yeah, but still :)
<kiko> matsubara, does bug 42749 still happen?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 42749 in launchpad "SoftTimeout error on +source page" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/42749
<kiko> salgado, have time to review https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/filemi2BJ5.html before you hit the deck?
<kiko> it's important to fix the person timeouts..
<salgado> kiko, I'm afraid not. I need to finish reviewing a branch that's on my queue for quite some time already
<matsubara> kiko: apparently no. feel free to reject it. I'll re-open if I spot it again.
<kiko> thanks matsubara 
* bradb heads off, later all
<boricua> several  bugs in ubunt in lauchpad but they dont get fixed????
<kiko> boricua?
<boricua> kiko: you i posted a bug and i see other people with the same problem but no response?
<boricua> i meant yeah  not you :-(
#launchpad 2006-09-22
<matsubara> boricua: which bug?
<matsubara> kiko: https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/fileAxZJP3.html
<boricua> 40460  and 52648
<matsubara> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1012150&group_id=74338&atid=540672.
<matsubara> kiko: ^
<Ubugtu> Sourceforge bug 1012150 "Foo.selectBy(column=None) should issue &#039;... column IS NULL&#039;" [Pri: 5,Closed]  
<matsubara> wow
<matsubara> you rock Ubugtu!
<boricua> kiko: did you copy?
<matsubara> boricua: both are Ubuntu bugs. You can try #ubuntu-bugs or #ubuntu for help on them.
<boricua> matsubara:both are pretty old 
<matsubara> boricua: did you try #ubuntu-bugs? they usually have lots of people there from the BugSquad team. They can help triage those one and perhaps increase its importance.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61757 in launchpad "SQLObject Foo.selectBy(column=None) doesn't work as expected." [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61757
<AlinuxOS> danilos, hello
<Riddell> how can I import an SVN archive into bzr on launchpad?
<jamesh> Riddell: register the product, and then go to the "Edit source" form for the trunk series and enter the Subversion details
<Riddell> sounds easy :)
<jamesh> (or if the product has already been registered, add the subversion details)
<jamesh> it'll then get tested and if it works, ddaa will publish it
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61805 in malone "Incorrect tooltip for bug importance" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61805
<SteveA> morning
<carlos> morning
<SteveA> hi carlos 
<carlos> SteveA: hi
<SteveA> mpt: hi.  ping me when we can have a talk to catch up on ui stuff.
<alanhs> Morning, is there a launchpad administrator around ?
<carlos> alanhs: what do you need?
<alanhs> I just happened across one of the projects, that just points to a porn site, and I wanted to know how to report it.
<SteveA> we should have a "report as inappropriate" button for logged-in users to use.
<SteveA> alanhs: please /msg me the details and I'll look into it
<SteveA> I'm a launchpad administrator, by the way, not just some random person who is interested in porn in launchpad.
<alanhs> SteveA:LOL! Sorry I am not very familiar with IRC, I just sent you a private message (I think!)
<SteveA> yes, thanks
<SteveA> alanhs: thank you.  I've removed the link to the product's homepage.  When the DBA is around, he'll remove the product from Launchpad.
<alanhs> SteveA: Your welcome.
<mantiena> Hi all
<mantiena> Maybe someone can help me ? I can't register releases for our distribution - when I go to http://launchpad.net/distros/baltix/+addrelease I get an error message :(
<mantiena> Not allowed here
<mantiena> Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page. 
<mantiena> You are logged in as Mantas Kriauinas.
<SteveA> mantiena: adding a release has big implications for the data in Launchpad.  please talk with kiko about it when kiko is around in a few hours.
<mantiena> SteveA, labas
<SteveA> labas, mantai
<mantiena> SteveA, how is your Lithuanian now ? ;)
<SteveA> spiv: ping
<spiv> SteveA: pong
<SteveA> mantiena: same as always, very basic :-)
<SteveA> mpt: pign
<SteveA> oh, mpt is off today, swapped for tomomrrow
<SteveA> I remember now
<mantiena> SteveA, btw, maybe you can help me with rosetta ? previously rosetta had an ability to display more than 10 strings at once, but now I can't do this :(
<carlos> mantiena: you still can do it
<carlos> but we are using the standard batching system in launchpad
<carlos> so the var name changed too
<mantiena> carlos, what ???
<carlos> mantiena: instead of count= use batch=
<carlos> mantiena: but take care that if the amount of messages is too high you will get timeout errors
<mantiena> carlos, strange name for count ;)
<carlos> mantiena: it's 'batch size' :-P
<mantiena> carlos, btw, maybe now rosetta has an ability to search in translations ?
<carlos> not yet
<mantiena> :(
<carlos> but danilo has already that task in his plate
<mantiena> :)
<seb128> carlos: what do I do with bugs like https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/file-roller/+bug/61840 ?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61840 in file-roller "Translation of file-roller's manual" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  
<carlos> seb128: you need to download the .po files manually and include it inside the package...
<carlos> seb128: Mark didn't answer my email yet
<seb128> carlos: that is not an option, we don't have enough package maintainer to start updating packages every time a translator do a change
<carlos> seb128: dude, please, stop that
<carlos> we already talked about it
<ddaa> if anybody cares, the python import is now up to 33700 commits and rising
<carlos> and it's pending for Mark's input
<carlos> I know it's hard
<carlos> you asked me about how to handle it
<carlos> and I told you how it works right now, I agrees already with you that it sucks
<seb128> carlos: right, ok, I'm mentionning again because we start getting bugs
<carlos> s/agrees/agreed/
<seb128> right
<carlos> seb128: answer the email I sent last week about it pointing to the bug, please
<carlos> It's not in my hands right now
<carlos> I'm not importing any new .pot file with this problem until we get an answer, but the previous ones are still there
<fabbione> hi guys
<fabbione> who is the soyuz guru here?
<SteveA> morning, big fabio
<fabbione> i think Mithrandir and I found a glitch
<fabbione> hey SteveA 
<ddaa> fabbione: celso or malcc
<SteveA> malcolm isn't around today
<ddaa> but malcc is on a week-end
<SteveA> celso will be in later on
<ddaa> and celso is still sleeping
<fabbione> ok
<SteveA> fabbione: can it wait a few hours, or is it really urgent?
<Mithrandir> it's not urgent.
<fabbione> SteveA: FYI: we found something that might require some urgent fixing...
<fabbione> SteveA: not for today
<SteveA> okay, but you want to get it discussed / understood today
<Mithrandir> as in, we want it fixed well before beta (which is in six days), but not urgent like "wake up celso" urgent.
<fabbione> but it might require some manual love immediatly after beta release and way before final
<SteveA> I see
<SteveA> okay.  I'll tell celso when I see him
<Mithrandir> colie
<Mithrandir> coolie, even
<fabbione> perfect thanks
<SteveA> ddaa: do you have 10 mins for a chat sometime?
<ddaa> Sure, right now. I was doing daily email.
<SteveA> k
<doko_> carlos: please export the OOo language data from edgy after the import of the new 2.0.4 upload
<carlos> doko_: ok
<carlos> but that will be for next Monday
<carlos> doko_: OO.org takes a couple of days to be imported
<carlos> and the queue is full of kde .po files
<carlos> that will delay it a bit more
<seb128> carlos: wb
<carlos> seb128: still broken :-(
<carlos> seb128: could you ping me?
<seb128> carlos: wb
<carlos> no, same problem
<seb128> :(
<seb128> do you have the same issue with a C locale or an another user on the same box?
<carlos> it only uses configuration inside .xchat2/ right?
<seb128> I've to go for lunch now
<seb128> right
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I will try that
<seb128> some issues are locale dependant though
<carlos> seb128: thanks
<seb128> let me know, I'll reply after lunch
<carlos> ok
<carlos> enjoy your lunch!
<carlos_> carlos: test
<LarstiQ> can multiple instances of launchpad work together to provide sharing of bugs etc across products/distributions?
<carlos> LarstiQ: do you mean installing launchpad in other place other than current launchpad.net ?
<carlos> atm we have more than one instance running, but sharing the same database
<LarstiQ> carlos: yes, say, python.org
<carlos> I don't think we support that yet
<carlos> unless we host the system
<carlos> so it has direct access to our database
<carlos> I know that there were some thoughts about how to handle that, but I don't know its status
* LarstiQ would be interested in that
<carlos> LarstiQ: you will need to talk with Steve or kiko about it
<AlinuxOS> carlos, good morning.
<LarstiQ> carlos: thanks
<carlos> AlinuxOS: morning
<AlinuxOS> carlos, coul you please change owner status from Alexander to me (for Georgian team)
<carlos> AlinuxOS: sorry, I don't have enough permissions for that, you will need to ask an admin https://launchpad.net/people/admins
<carlos> LarstiQ: you are welcome
<AlinuxOS> carlos, ok.
<AlinuxOS> thank you for info ;)
<AlinuxOS> lifeless, ping
<AlinuxOS> SteveA, ping
<SteveA> AlinuxOS: hi
<AlinuxOS> SteveA, hello, I would like to ask you something...
<AlinuxOS> could you please change owner status from Alexander to me (for Georgian team)
<SteveA> can't Alexander do that?
<AlinuxOS> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-ka
<AlinuxOS> mmm no.
<AlinuxOS> he only changed from Owner to Administrator...
<AlinuxOS> but can't give me owners permissions.
<AlinuxOS> SteveA, can you help me, please ?
<SteveA> you are Vladimer Sichinava   ?
<AlinuxOS> yes.
<AlinuxOS> GNOME's GTP coordinator.
<SteveA> why do you need to be the owner of this team?
<SteveA> I want to understand why I'm doing something, if I'm to use my administrative responsibilities
<AlinuxOS> because Alexander is not active this period. So I'll manage translators for ubuntu too.
<SteveA> ok
<AlinuxOS> SteveA, thanks ;)
<SteveA> I'm still surprised that Alexander can't transfer ownership to you.  
<SteveA> but I'll transfer it to you
<AlinuxOS> SteveA, I don't really know...because I can't see his menu bar..
<SteveA> you can now, as you are the owner
<AlinuxOS> SteveA, thanks I'll check it now.
<SteveA> ok
<AlinuxOS> SteveA, thanks again...it's ok now.
<LarstiQ> SteveA: did you see my question (half an hour ago) about multiple launchpad installs (without the same database) working together?
<iwj> Hello.  Who should I ask if I want a copy of dpkg 1.13.22ubuntu1, which isn't in pool/ any more ?
<iwj> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/dpkg has a link to it but it goes to an oops page.
<iwj> Or rather, a page not found.
<iwj> OOPS-265D362
<Ubugtu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/265D362
<spiv> iwj: you'd need to ask one of the soyuz guys.  I'm not sure why that link isn't there.
<carlos> hmmm
<carlos> spiv: is not that link
<spiv> Pages for the corresponding binary packages work...
<carlos> only latest one works
<spiv> carlos: Right.
<iwj> spiv: The soyuz guys don't hang around here ?
<carlos> iwj: celso (cprov) should pop soon
<carlos> iwj: malcom doesn't work today
<spiv> iwj: They do.  Sorry, I meant perhaps it's worth asking them directly to make sure they notice, rather than just the channel in general.
<iwj> spiv: Ah, right.
<iwj> Excellent.  I'll go and have lunch now.  My other tasks are all crazy blocked doom things at the moment so I think food and coffee are a good idea.
<spiv> iwj: I look forward to using the fruits of your labour :)
* spiv -> dinner
<carlos> iwj: in fact, from what I see in warthogs mailing list, Celso is also offline today
<mantiena> kiko-zzz, hi, now it's a goot time to wake up ;)
<jamesh> iwj: cprov merged a fix for the traversal-to-removed-versions bug recently
<jamesh> iwj: will hopefully be in the next rollout
<mantiena> carlos, still online ? batch= doesn't work for me, look for example at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/gtk+2.0/+pots/gtk20-properties/lt/+translate?start=0?batch=50
<carlos> mantiena: it's start=0&batch=50 
<mantiena> ok, thanks
<carlos> np
<carlos> jamesh: hi, around?
<iwj> jamesh: Aha, thanks.  But I'm afraid I'd still like someone to help me out perhaps by fishing the files out from somewhere ?
<spiv> It should be possible to find by querying the LibraryFileAlias table by filename...
<iwj> I'm looking for dpkg_1.13.22ubuntu1.dsc, dpkg_1.13.22ubuntu1.tar.gz
* carlos -> lunch
<carlos> iwj: if spiv is not able to solve that before I'm back from lunch, I will see what I can do
<spiv> iwj: give me a moment, I'll see if I have access to the right tables...
<iwj> Thanks a lot.
<spiv> iwj: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3325264/dpkg_1.13.22ubuntu1.dsc
<spiv> iwj: http://librarian.launchpad.net/3325263/dpkg_1.13.22ubuntu1.tar.gz
<iwj> Yay!  Thanks.
<spiv> Not a problem.
<iwj> Damn, I'm afraid I want ubuntu2 and ubuntu3 as well.  Sorry.
<spiv> iwj: heh, ok
<spiv> http://librarian.launchpad.net/3364579/dpkg_1.13.22ubuntu2.dsc
<spiv> http://librarian.launchpad.net/3364578/dpkg_1.13.22ubuntu2.tar.gz
<iwj> ircii | xargs wget
<spiv> http://librarian.launchpad.net/3513772/dpkg_1.13.22ubuntu3.dsc
<spiv> http://librarian.launchpad.net/3513771/dpkg_1.13.22ubuntu3.tar.gz
<spiv> iwj: haha :)
<iwj> Thanks muchly.
<kiko> morning
<LarstiQ> hello kiko
<SteveA> hey kiko
<kiko> hey SteveA 
<SteveA> will cprov be around?
<kiko> hey LarstiQ 
<kiko> how's the sunshine
<kiko> SteveA, no, he (and malcc) are on leave today
<SteveA> fabio and tollef had a soyuz bug they want to discuss
<kiko> rather unfortunately
<kiko> he'll be around tomorrow if thathelps
<LarstiQ> kiko: wondering about launchpad's abilities to interoperate between multiple instances (i.e., offloading products/python to python.org)
<kiko> LarstiQ, you'll have to be more specific there..
<stub> Its hard enough trying to interoperate with a central database. Distributed we just can't do without major labotimization.
<LarstiQ> kiko: A big benefit to me of launchpad is being able to easily add upstream tasks and such. Will that also work between different launchpad instances that do not share the same database?
<kiko> LarstiQ, "different instances"?
<kiko> LarstiQ, there is only one launchpad
<LarstiQ> kiko: so if launchpad gets chosen for python, they're going to make use of the canonical one
<kiko> LarstiQ, yes.
<LarstiQ> this bothers me slightly.
<Riddell> ddaa: what's the status of the ubuntu-doc svn import?
<kiko> LarstiQ, don't be bothered. it's all good!
<LarstiQ> kiko: I'm glad you're here :)
* ddaa checks
<LarstiQ> kiko: it is however a barrier to adoption. Today I had a bit of an argument over it, where people felt the centralized nature of launchpad was bad (and it being non-free, that caused some grief)
<stub> And here I am thinking free hosting and maintenance might be a good thing.
<LarstiQ> stub: don't get me wrong, I really enjoy working with lp.
<stub> Don't get me wrong - I'm in a grumpy mood ;)
<kiko> LarstiQ, what stub said. though I can see people arguing over anything, the reality is that Launchpad is engineered with the best of intentions; it is centralized, yes, but that also makes it a lot simpler
<kiko> it's not every week your government gets kicked out
<stub> Nah - I just need a massage
* LarstiQ hands stub some jordi pr0n to cheer him up: http://amayita.livejournal.com/77997.html
<ddaa> Riddell: two things
<stub> Or an ergonomic desk
<ddaa> Riddell: the first, that interests you most, is that it's currently blocked on cscvs bugs
<ddaa> no ETA for the fix
<kiko> LarstiQ, are you referring to a specific python discussion?
<LarstiQ> kiko: #ironpython discussion
<kiko> I see
<LarstiQ> specifically with Seo Sanghyeon
<ddaa> Riddell: the second, is that there seems to be some confusion around those imports
<ddaa> there is an import for "trunk" and one for "trunk/", one of those will have to be cleared up (tell me whether you want to clear the one in "trunk" or the one in "main").
<Riddell> probably remove "main"
<ddaa> Riddell: Anh there is one for branches/dapper, you need to know that although that one _should_ work (when the cscvs bug is fixed), it will not be related to the one from trunk
<LarstiQ> kiko: I'm probably being overly sensitive
<ddaa> as in merge will not behave usefully, and history won't go past the beginning of the branch
<kiko> yeah, it's friday. come on
<ddaa> as a policy we do not currently support imports for anything but trunk
<LarstiQ> http://isitfriday.net/? Yes!
<Riddell> ddaa: trunk is the only important one, dapper is unimportant
<ddaa> Okay, I'll clear the dapper import stuff
<ddaa> I'll put that import up on https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImportRequests to remember telling you when the import is complete
<ddaa> but do not hold your breath
<Riddell> ok, thanks ddaa 
<stub> So what are we going to do about the existing /people, /products, /projects, /distributions and most importantly /bazaar urls? Keep them, which will involve renaming the bazaar product? Or change them to /+foo syntax ?
<kiko> stub, so people I think should be separate from the other three.
<kiko> stub, the other three should be rooted on /
<kiko> I don't see the + syntax being anything but a hindrance here.
<stub> kiko: So is /bazaar the bazaar product or what is already /bazaar ? If the bazaar product, what happens to the existing /bazaar?
<kiko> stub, that people would be separate I think was also discussed and agreed upon 
<kiko> stub, it becomes code.launchpad.net
<stub> Ok. So that needs sorting before landing the /pillar-name stuff
<stub> Other namespace clashes can be handled with the blacklist
<kiko> stub, we /could/ as an interim step move /bazaar and /malone to /+bazaar and /+malone
<kiko> and /rosetta to /+rosetta
<kiko> I'm not against that if it unblocks landing your branch 
<stub> Do you know if code.launchpad.net, bugs.launchpad.net, translations.launchpad.net (or whatever) are 1.0 tasks?
<kiko> stub, they are, yes.
<stub> Then I can leave this branch blocked and work on other stuff until that is closer to landing - it will be less work in the long run
<stub> No need to screw with the urls twice when we can just wait a bit and only do it once
<kiko> stub, okay, agreed, but is there danger of everything bitrotting to hell?
<ddaa> cod.launchpad.net sounds fishy
<kiko> ddaa, is there another proposal? branches.launchpad.net?
<ddaa> I was just trying to be witty
<ddaa> code.foo.bar is establishing a standard since there is already code.google.com
<Nafallo> translations sounds like a bit long to use :-P
<Nafallo> i18n is more to the size :-)
<ddaa> so I think it's a good name overall
<ddaa> could be a redirector...
<kiko> stub, are you game for a review of the person sort improvements and other related things?
<kiko> it's not very big..
<kiko> and it's blocking me landing this stuff
<ddaa> translations is good because it targets volunteers that may not be familiar with the jargon
<salgado> flacoste, around?
<flacoste> salgado: yep
<flacoste> salgado: how can I help?
<LarstiQ> ddaa: except there are people doing non-code stuff too
<salgado> flacoste, hi!
<kiko> ddaa, rosetta.launchpad.net is still shorter :)
<salgado> flacoste, I'm wondering if the 'Created' column on https://staging.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+tickets is really needed. what do you think?
<ddaa> LarstiQ: bzr is mainly a source code management system
<ddaa> people can use it for other things, but there's a clear focus on code
<flacoste> salgado: i think it can go away if we replace it with an age column
<ddaa> that's why there is only marginal interest in use cases like versioning a full home directory, /etc, or trees with huge binary files.
<ddaa> They are important to some people, but they are not essential to the bzr mission.
<salgado> flacoste, yeah, the age would be much better, I think.  but is it really useful, since we're going to close tickets after a certain period of time?
<flacoste> salgado: it gives an idea if the ticket is going to expire soon
<salgado> flacoste, I mean, if the ticket has activity, I don't think the age is that important.  and if it doesn't it will be closed
<iwj> spiv: Thanks for your help.  I just thought I'd let you know those files did the trick for me.
<flacoste> salgado: age since last activity than
<salgado> flacoste, ahhh, right
<flacoste> salgado: but that doesn't make sense for ANSWERED, SOLVED and EXPIRED tickets which by definition won't have much activity anymore
<salgado> indeed
<flacoste> salgado: for those the date of the last activity is more useful
<elmo> spiv: do you have any way of monitoring the performance of the authserver?
<elmo> spiv: and do you think maybe the logrotation you have ATM is a bit OTT? :P
<flacoste> salgado: on a related issue: i wondered if I should set the dateanswered attributes when a ticket is rejected or expired, and if the answerer attribute should be set
<flacoste> salgado: for now, i don't, but the old code did for the rejected case
<flacoste> salgado: if we do, i think we should rename the attribuets to dateresolved and resolver 
<salgado> flacoste, maybe it'd be good to have date_expired, date_answered and so on, like we have for bugtasks?
<flacoste> salgado: so, we'd have dateanswered, dateexpired and daterejected? would we need a datesolved?
<flacoste> salgado: and should we store these in the ticket table or compute them from the messages?
<spiv> iwj: glad I could help
<flacoste> salgado: actually, dateanswered is currently the date the problem was solved
<flacoste> salgado: i.e. I set dateanswered only when the user confirms an answer
<spiv> elmo: not really; the log files give some idea of how heavy the traffic is, and I occasionally run time python -c "import xmlrpclib; s = xmlrpclib.Server('http://localhost:8999/v2'); print s.getUser(1)"
<salgado> flacoste, I'm not sure about that. it'd be good to have some use cases so that we can see what is really needed
<flacoste> salgado: we could also leave things as they are for now, and revisit that later on
<salgado> yeah, I think this would be better
<spiv> elmo: which I did just then, and the first time it took 45s, which suggests the database was locked...
<flacoste> salgado: we can always set the correct dates by looking a the messages history (since we have the action done on each message)
<spiv> Or that the authserver has a problem I don't know about...
<salgado> flacoste, indeed
<spiv> elmo: As for the rotation... uh, yeah :)
<elmo> spiv: would it be reasonable to add a time-taken-to-complete to the log file?
<elmo> so we can keep track of this?
<spiv> elmo: that's a good idea.  Please file a bug.
<spiv> elmo: (not meaning to be rude, but I am likely to forget otherwise)
<elmo> ok, can I file one saying I think there's a performance problem too?
<spiv> elmo: yeah.  I just had a request take over a minute to answer, that's clearly terrible.
<spiv> Hmm, it's at 99% cpu.
<spiv> So it's an authserver issue, not a database one.
<spiv> Crud.
<spiv> That means it's my fault.
<spiv> (although given the number of requests it's handling per second, that might not be totally unreasonable)
<elmo> how many is it?
<elmo> (and why so many?)
<spiv> elmo: Actually....
<spiv> elmo: I have a terrible suspicion that the log rotation is part of the problem.
<spiv> We should try moving all the authserver.log.* files to an archived/ directory.
<elmo> how often is it rotating?!
<elmo> oh, you mean ext3 crapness due to the size of the directory?
<spiv> Sorry, my ISP decided to break their routing for a minute there.
<spiv> I'm just guessing.
<spiv> But ext3 crapness is a likely candidate...
<kiko> ddaa,?
<ddaa> kiko?
<kiko> ddaa, can you check out this?
<kiko> https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileU6xYVY.html
<ddaa> kiko: that is a backtrace
<elmo> spiv: ehm ehm
<elmo> spiv: the moin instance appears to be talking to the authserver EVERY time
<elmo> spiv: like, I'm logged in, have a cookie, but it's still talking to the authserver on every page I load
<spiv> elmo: that's true I think, yeah :(
<ddaa> kiko: what do you want to know?
<elmo> spiv: duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude
<kiko> ddaa, yes it is. caused by my SQLObject fix for bug 61757
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61757 in launchpad "SQLObject Foo.selectBy(column=None) doesn't work as expected." [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61757
<elmo> spiv: that's so bad
<spiv> elmo: you'd like to hack on the Moin code?  Please, be my guest :P
* Nafallo couldn't agree with elmo more
<ddaa> kiko: I do not know what your fix look like, I cannot really tell you anything unless you give me some more context
<spiv> elmo: so, it seems to be rotating worryingly often.
<kiko> why is revision_id a list?
<spiv> elmo: very roughly once/2 minutes 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61884 in launchpad "timing information in the authserver log" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61884
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61885 in launchpad "authserver performance problems" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61885
<elmo> spiv: SWEET
<kiko> ddaa, XXX ['rev42'] 
<elmo> spiv: it's rotating based on size, given the lack of cookie support, I guess that's unsurprising?
<kiko> why are we supplying a list here?
<spiv> elmo: yep :(
<elmo> spiv: what are our options in terms of short term fixes?
* spiv looks up how to change the default rotation behaviour of twisted.python.log
<elmo> spiv: I was about ready to upgrade the wiki box, but there doesn't seem to be much point ;-)
<kiko> ddaa, https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileGbS2Ld.html
<kiko> ddaa, why is revision_id a list there?
<spiv> elmo: "mv logs/*.log* logs/archived" or similiar will probably help
<Nafallo> hmm
<spiv> For a while.
<ddaa> kiko: that looks like a bug
<kiko> ddaa, r=ddaa to change to an int?
<spiv> elmo: I'll see if I can turn the rotation off, or at least turn it massively down.
<ddaa> kiko: it's breaking the Revision API
<spiv> elmo: Worst case, I can disable logging.
<ddaa> kiko: you can even call that [trivial] , but r=ddaa if you wish
<kiko> sure thing. thanks.
<ddaa> hu
<ddaa> kiko: INT?
<kiko> a string, sorry.
<ddaa> revision_id = 'rev42' -> r=ddaa
<elmo> spiv: do you want to do that?  I think you can
<elmo> spiv: the moving of logs I mean
<spiv> elmo: I can do that, sure.
<spiv> (at least, when my internet comes back...)
<spiv> elmo: ok, let's see how that goes
<elmo> spiv: is the moin issue, by design or "just" a bug?
<spiv> elmo: it's the simplest way to do it (moin doesn't need to cache data held in the authserver), and it was fast enough.
<spiv> If it's not fast enough anymore, we can make it better.
<elmo> spiv: ok - if you're going to be working on it, maybe we should start with 1.5 code base instead?   the authentication there is at least modular, dunno if that'll make it any easier for you, but we need to jump to 1.5 anyway
<flacoste> spiv: the latest Moin release is supposed to have an authentication plugin API
<elmo> spiv: because unless the logging change fixes all the performance problems, it's definitely not fast enough anymore
<spiv> I'd like to see if 1.5 is easier to work with.
<spiv> Apparently it's meant to have more modular auth code, which might make things much easier and saner.
<spiv> And as you say, we need to jump at some point anyway.
<spiv> (hmm, I think my ISP is trying to tell me to go to bed by breaking their routing every few minutes...)
<elmo> spiv: the logging seems to be broken entirely now,btw?
<spiv> elmo: yeah, it does :/
<spiv> that's a bit alarming.
<spiv> I suppose we could bounce the process.
<spiv> I'd like to be able to gauge how rapidly it will get out of control again.
<spiv> If it's something that can be solved adequately by a nightly cron job to move old logs, then I don't have to worry about dropping other things to fix it.
<spiv> elmo: I need to sleep now, but it appears that moving the logs has fixed the issue for the moment.
<elmo> spiv: ok, thanks
<spiv> Mail me or ping me on IRC if it goes stupid again, but otherwise I'll take a look at how it's going on Monday.
<spiv> elmo: worst comes to the worst, symlink authserver.log to /dev/null -- it uses tell() to figure out when the file is too big...
* spiv -> sleep
<elmo> spiv: cool, thanks
<kiko> spiv, would you have time to review a patch that fixes performance problems with packages and persons?
<kiko> spiv, it's not long..
<kiko> carlos, what's po-debconf?
<carlos> kiko: a .po file for debconf?
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> so people can see i18nd upgrade information?
<carlos> kiko: I don't know
<carlos> I need more info
<kiko> oh
<carlos> ah, you mean the package?
<kiko> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2006/09/msg00012.html
<carlos> kiko: it's a script to get .po files with the .deb package templates
<carlos> and .deb package templates are the text that you get from dpkg/apt about the configuration of a package
<carlos> and in Debian installer context, all its text
<carlos> we import them as pkgconf-PACKAGENAME
* carlos -> out
<carlos> enjoy the weekend!!
<kiko> SteveA, was it me?
<SteveA> it was you
<SteveA> like yodelling in a swimmingpool
<SteveA> WebMaven: ping
<bradb> Hm, anyone know the trick to display the error messages that a constraint function passes to LaunchpadValidationError with LaunchpadFormView? It looks like LFV shows only form-wide validation error messages, by default. BjornT?
<WebMaven> SteveA: pong
<WebMaven> SteveA: do yo8u have a pronouncement?
<BjornT> bradb: catch the LaunchpadValidationError and either call self.addError() or self.setFieldError()?
<bradb> BjornT: LFV should be doing that for me though, right?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61909 in malone "Security subscription should be implicit" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61909
<bradb> This might be the problem....
<bradb>     def _validate(self, action, data):
<bradb>         for error in form.getWidgetsData(self.widgets, self.prefix, data):
<bradb>             self.errors.append(error)
<bradb>         for error in form.checkInvariants(self.form_fields, data):
<bradb>             self.addError(error)
<BjornT> bradb: it depends. what kind of constraint function are you talking about? one that gets called by a widget, or one that you call in self.validate()?
<bradb> BjornT: it's a function I've passed as a constraint to a Set field. presumably it's getting called during getWidgetsData above.
<bradb> I could do this easily if I implemented it as form-wide validation in the view's validate() method, but that seems like the incorrect spot for that knowledge.
<BjornT> bradb: if so, the widget should be in an error state, and it's the template's responsibility to render the error near the widget (using view.getWidgetError()). you can see how it's done in launchpad-widget-macros.pt
<bradb> BjornT: ah, ok, thanks
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61894 in ubiquity "Installation Fails - VMWare machine" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61894
<kiko> matsubara-lunch, the SQLObject fix has landed.
<kiko> salgado, given a set of groups, is it easy to find out if a user is a member of one of them?
<kiko> or do I need to do multiple TeamParticipation queries?
<kiko> actually, my question is
<flacoste> kiko: use CrowdControl :-)
<kiko> given a set of groups, is it easy to find out which ones a user is a member of?
<kiko> flacoste!!!1111!
<flacoste> kiko: it doesn't fit the use case of findind which groups from that set the user is a member of though
<flacoste> kiko: but it should be possible in one SQL query: SELECT team from TeamParticipation where team IN () and person = X;
<kiko> yeah yeah
<salgado> kiko, it should be possible to do it with a single query, yes. why do you want that?
<kiko> salgado, to tell which translation groups a person is a member of.
<kiko> salgado, there is no API for it, though, right?
<salgado> no, there isn't
<kiko> thanks.
<kiko> matsubara-lunch, isn't there a bug about a person not having a teamparticipation entry for himself?
<zwnj> i have some questions about handling our l10n team on launchpad.  anyone here can help me?
<kiko> zwnj, yes, and so can jordi and danilos.
<zwnj> hi kiko
<kiko> zwnj, how's it going? what team is yours?
<zwnj> kiko: i'm owner of l10n-fa team (wiki.u.c/PersianTranslationTeam).  in fact i just today realized that the translations by the users of l10n-fa team would be on the release without review.  so should i clean up the team and just approve some trusted translators now?
<kiko> zwnj, yes, you should /definitely/ do that.
<kiko> how did you realize that today, may I ask?
<kiko> that is a big problem with translation groups
<kiko> and I'd like us to solve it
<zwnj> kiko: we just started to write howto's for new users of launchpad, and we found out non-members get a warning on top of the translation page.
<zwnj> kiko: i'm the owner, but just a couple of weeks ago i saw the team in the TanslationTeams group, and started to work on it, requested for the mailing list, blah blah
<kiko> I see.
<zwnj> kiko: would you write a doc about l10n-team coordinating please?
<kiko> zwnj, yes, we need that. I'll talk to jordi about it.
<kiko> matsubara?
* matsubara is looking for it
<matsubara> kiko: bug 30789?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30789 in launchpad "teams should be members of themselves" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30789
<zwnj> thanks kiko
<kiko> most welcome zwnj 
<salgado> eh?
<kiko> salgado, so people do have TP entries for themselves?
<salgado> people or teams?
<kiko> people.
<salgado> well, that's not what the bug says
<zwnj> kiko: btw, was it the right channel to ask such questions?  if yes, i'm going to hang on here
<salgado> people already have TP entries for themselves
<kiko> zwnj, yes, definitely.
<kiko> salgado, thanks. I was confused.
<kiko> salgado, why don't we fix that bug, btw?
<salgado> and the only place that I'm aware of that we need to do someteam.inTeam(anotherteam) is that rosetta code carlos pasted
<kiko> okay, then.
<salgado> kiko, I'm not sure the above use case justifies it
<kiko> oookay
<kiko> hey matthewrevell 
<kiko> salgado, any time for reviews today?
<matthewrevell> kiko: hey :)
<matthewrevell> kiko: Any Launchpad news for The Fridge?
<kiko> matthewrevell, next tuesday there will be
<matthewrevell> kiko: Cool. What's the schedule - every three weeks?
<kiko> matthewrevell, every 2 /or/ 3 weeks.
<matthewrevell> Okay, cool.
<salgado> kiko, if the diff is not too big, sure
<kiko> salgado, https://sodium.ubuntu.com/~andrew/paste/file4Q1XOc.html
<kiko> matthewrevell, I'd like jordi to contribute a doc on how to handle translation groups in launchpad. but I need to find him first.
<matthewrevell> kiko: Sounds interesting. If you haven't got time to summarise, let me know and I'll happily do it.
<kiko> matthewrevell, thanks for the offer. 
<Burgwork> kiko, jordi is off leading his double life as a russian skating sex-god
<kiko> yeah so I hear
<zwnj> kiko: would you take a look at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/launchpad-integration/+pots/launchpad-integration/fa/+translate please
<kiko> looking
<zwnj> kiko: there is some translation, without the review-wanted mark
<kiko> zwnj, many, actually, right?
<zwnj> kiko: yes, all on the page, and the author wasn't on the translation team at all
<kiko> zwnj, which author?
<zwnj> kiko: why launchpad accept it, when it won't be on the packge
<kiko> zwnj, launchpad accepts suggestions from people who aren't in the translation team.
<zwnj> kiko: i.e. hasannoori
<kiko> zwnj, a person who /is/ in the translation team can later come in and approve and/or edit these suggestions.
<zwnj> kiko: so it it's a suggestion, it should be marked as review-wanted
<zwnj>  /it/if/
<kiko> zwnj, the review-wanted flag is meant to be used by people who /do/ have permission to change the official string, but who are not sure it's a good translation or not.
<zwnj> kiko: oops, seems the date of translation is before the team become a official team
<zwnj> kiko: so, how a new team member can find out which message is a suggestion, and which done by another team member (on that page, not seeing the team member's page)
<kiko> zwnj, if it's a suggestion, it won't be added as the official translation.
<zwnj> kiko: i know, but how launchpad shows it to me?
<salgado> kiko, what's that patch for?
<kiko> salgado, ordering by person_sort_key and package_version_key, to avoid timeouts?
<salgado> oh, that good old patch? I thought it was merged already...
<kiko> salgado, it needs review.
<kiko> zwnj, it shows the entry as a suggestion, and not as the official translation (i.e. Suggested by: ...)
<kiko> salgado-brb, it's a fix for 56638.
<zwnj> kiko: but i see: ||| Translated by: HasanNoori on 2006-06-02 01:55:16 IRDT ||| who has not be a member
<zwnj> kiko: could it be because of the date of translations, which is older than the date that team became official?
<zwnj> kiko: here are the example: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/launchpad-integration/+pots/launchpad-integration/fa/4/+translate
<zwnj> non of those people are (or was) a team member
<kiko> zwnj, yes, they were added before the team was enabled.
<zwnj> kiko: ok, now i want to mark all Persian translations as suggestion
<zwnj> because (almost) all of them has problems
<zwnj> they use Arabic Yeh and Key instead of Persian Yeh and Keh
<zwnj> kiko: so all of them do need review, and it's going to be the first task for team members
<kiko> zwnj, good job.
<salgado> kiko, I don't have permission to see that bug
<matsubara> hmm I wonder who fixed the tooltip in Importance and added the padlock icon
<kiko> salgado, are you serious?
<kiko> bug 56638?
<salgado> kiko, yes
<salgado> 56638
<kiko> heh
<kiko> now you do.
<zwnj> kiko: so, what should i do now?
<kiko> zwnj, well, there is no mass-update UI yet for a language
<kiko> zwnj, is it for all packages?
<kiko> matsubara, the tooltip was there a while back. I fixed the padlock icon name which was broken and 404ing.
<kiko> without an icon there is no tooltip tho
<zwnj> kiko: yes, almost all the translations that have been done on launchpad
<bradb> matsubara: kiko did the padlock and I did the tooltip
<matsubara> bradb, kiko yeah, just found it rev 4026
<kiko> zwnj, I think you need to file a support request to get those cleared. rosetta/+tickets
<matsubara> bradb: i think then bug 61805 belongs to you :)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 61805 in malone "Tooltip for bug importance could have better wording" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61805
<kiko> lol
<bradb> matsubara: yeah, i guess it's fixed now
<matsubara> bradb: thanks. you fix things before they're even reported!
<bradb> dunno if it's released yet though...
<bradb> no, only committed
<salgado> kiko, review sent
<kiko> salgado, thanks.
<zwnj> kiko: where i can request for that?
<matsubara> bradb: is it possible to show the tooltip only to people who don't have permission to edit the importance field?
<kiko> zwnj, launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+tickets
<bradb> matsubara: yeah, easy, if needed
<bradb> BjornT: Is it possible to submit an invalid value for a list of checkboxes? I'm trying to pagetest nominating a release that's already been nominated.
<bradb> BjornT: (with testbrowser i mean, of course)
<kiko> salgado, reply sent.
<kiko> bradb, I believe matsubara knows how to do that
<BjornT> bradb: you could do it with two different browser instances. first open the page in the two instances, then submit the forms nominating the same release in both instances.
<bradb> BjornT: tried that already
<bradb> got:
<bradb>       File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/mechanize/_mechanize.py", line 371, in viewing_html
<bradb>         raise BrowserStateError("not viewing any document")
<bradb>     BrowserStateError: not viewing any document
<bradb> I'm betting zope gets confused with more than one instance open at a time (not to mention that it makes the test read /really/ weird anyway)
<bradb> i could suffer thing slings and arrows of http(), but i want more out of life
<BjornT> bradb: hmm, it should work. can you paste the test you have?
<bradb> BjornT: sure, one sec...
<BjornT> the tests won't actually be that weird. what you do is to simulate someone having the same form open in two different tabs, or two users nominating at the same time.
<bradb> BjornT: yeah, that's how i narrated it
<bradb> i think i may have found the issue though. want to verify before pasting...
<bradb> my machine is not fast
<kiko> salgado, replied.
<bradb> peeebcaaaak!
<bradb> BjornT: n/m. mea culpa.
#launchpad 2006-09-23
<zaghaghi> where can i find this channel log in this date(9/22/2006)
<zaghaghi> ?
<zaghaghi> can you help me, kiko?
<zaghaghi> are you asleep?
<kiko-zzz> zaghaghi, yo
<kiko-zzz> not yet.
<kiko-zzz> zaghaghi, see /topic
<zaghaghi> tnx
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61957 in malone "Search defaults promote submission of many duplicates" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61957
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61958 in malone "malone is closed source" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61958
<Ubugtu> New bug: #61964 in malone "Add voting feature for bugs" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61964
<BlockNick> what the fuck is launchpad?
<Burgundavia> BlockNick: first of all, welcome
<Burgundavia> second, please be more polite
<BlockNick> Hello =)
<BlockNick> ok
<Burgundavia> third, Launchpad is a web tool is enabled easy collaboration between various Open source projects
<Burgundavia> s/is enabled/to enabled/
<Burgundavia> ok, I am tired
<BlockNick> How Do i get rich with opensource?
<Burgundavia> the usual way you get rich: be smart at business
<BlockNick> I use indows'
<BlockNick> does that make me a bad person?
<Burgundavia> that is not an inherent charcter flaw
<Burgundavia> it is a fixable problem
<BlockNick> Sex with random hot woman is good.
<Burgundavia> likely, but that is not really appropriate for this channel
<BlockNick> sabdfl is Mark the spaceMan.
<Burgundavia> yes
<BlockNick> If you see him tell him I'd like a loan.....k?
<BlockNick> loll
<BlockNick> I tried Ubuntu
<BlockNick> I like it...but there are a few things Id change
<Burgundavia> this is not an Ubuntu channel
<BlockNick> oh
<BlockNick> What OS do you use?
<Burgundavia> Ubuntu
<BlockNick> what do you like about it?
<Burgundavia> nearly everything?
<BlockNick> I have used Windows since dos. I am slowely making the transition. it's gradual 
<BlockNick> For moments i love ubuntu, and then it does something to piss me off so I boot windows.
<BlockNick> I just sold my Accounting firm for $7 mill (nz) am looking for new business options
<Burgundavia> interesting
<BlockNick> Was hoping to talk to Mark.
<Burgundavia> you can email him
<BlockNick> address?
<Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/people/sabdfl
<BlockNick> What do you do ?
<Burgundavia> sales and biz dev for Userful
<BlockNick> I did a poo.
<Burgundavia> hmm, that was interesting
<j-a-meinel> Burgundavia: yeah. I'm pretty sure it was just a troll. He showed up on #bzr and started off similarly ("What the fuck is BZR>")
<Burgundavia> j-a-meinel: ah, likely, but trolls can be funny, if handled correctly
<SteveA> mpt_: around?
<BongSong> Hello SteveA
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62019 in launchpad "set operations should ignore prejoins" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62019
<matsubara> just confirmed that one kiko-zzz 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62056 in launchpad "Dead Link from source package page" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62056
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62006 in ubiquity "IOError: [Errno 28]  No space left on device" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62006
<mantiena> kiko-fud, SteveA told me, that you can help me... I can't register releases for our distribution - when I go to http://launchpad.net/distros/baltix/+addrelease I get an error message :(
<mantiena> Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page. 
<kiko-fud> mantiena, yeah, that's something that we need to sort out; it's not yet possible.
<mantiena> kiko-fud, We have this problem more than 8 months :(
<kiko-fud> mantiena, it's something that hasn't been dealt with yet; there are some tricky issues with it
<mpt_> Goooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
<zwnj> hi kiko-zzz
#launchpad 2006-09-24
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62109 in launchpad "ubuntu.com email address creation" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62109
<lifeless> whoever pinged me, its not in my backlog anymore
<LarstiQ> lifeless: I suppose that was AlinuxOS on the 22nd, but afaics SteveA fixed his problem
<lifeless> thanks
<Perfecto> Hello,
<Perfecto> Ihave a problem when I try to enter in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amule/+filebug/+login I never can. It tell me that The email address and password do not match. I use the same email and password that for the email list. I tried to register to launchpad from the same page but I have never recieved the mail with the confimation. After that I suscribied myself to the mailing list without problems but I don't know how to r
<Perfecto> I have a problem when I try to enter in https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/amule/+filebug/+login I never can. It tell me that The email address and password do not match. I use the same email and password that for the email list. I tried to register to launchpad from the same page but I have never recieved the mail with the confimation. After that I suscribied myself to the mailing list without problems but I don't know how to 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62162 in launchpad "Launchpad should support subversions of distributions i.e. Dapper Eft etc" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62162
<Ubugtu> New bug: #62164 in soyuz ""Sundance" network card driver" [Untriaged,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62164
#launchpad 2007-09-17
<ianm_> how do you change the Timeline display on a project's launchpad homepage?  I want the other branch to be the "Current development focus"  https://launchpad.net/luz
<poolie> jml, was just looking at a user dupe of bug 139593
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139593 in launchpad-bazaar ""Permission denied: '/root/.bzr.log'" error from supermirror operations" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139593 - Assigned to Jonathan Lange (jml)
<poolie> do you know why this changed recently?
<jml> no, I don't.
<jml> it *sounds* like someone has changed the version of Bazaar on the server.
<poolie> or changed the way it was run
<poolie> did anything change there since thursday? 
<jml> that too.
<jml> if so, no one told me.
<poolie> that's a bit disturbing
<jml> yep.
<poolie> did a lp rollout just happen?
<poolie> or when was the next/last one?
<jml> poolie: it should happen *this* thursday.
* jml checks cherrypicks
<jml> poolie: nope, no relevant cherrypicks.
<poolie> thumper, do you know anything about the above?
<thumper> poolie, no I don't know of any rollouts
<carlos> morning
<marseillai> hi mrevell 
<mrevell> hi mar
<mrevell> hi marseillai
<laga> morning
<mrevell> hi laga
<marseillai> just to ask you if it was possible to accept me in launchpad-beta-tester team? someone told me it's you i have to see for that.
<mrevell> marseillai: Is your user-name also marseillai?
<marseillai> no
<marseillai> my real name is cyril breuil
<Hobbsee> good morning mrevell 
<mrevell> hi Hobbsee!
<marseillai> hi Hobbsee :)
<mrevell> marseillai: have you applied to join the team yet?
<marseillai> yes
<marseillai> i did it yesterday
<mrevell> ah, I've found you.
<mrevell> marseillai: Okay, you're in!
<marseillai> thanks a lot mrevell  :)
<mrevell> marseillai: No problem :)
<\sh> mrevell, could you quickly add me to the beta testers team, too? :)
<mrevell> \sh: Sure, let me find your application
<\sh> mrevell, just "joined" ;) Stephan Hermann <- real name and shermann <- lp user id
<mrevell> \sh: You're listed as already being a member but deactivated
<\sh> mrevell, ok ... just reactivate then ;)
<\sh> mrevell, thx :)
<mrevell> \sh: Done :)
<daub> mrevell: hi, is it possible to remove my account and my project from launchpad?
<mrevell> hi daub. You can deactivate your Launchpad account by following this guide:
<mrevell> https://help.launchpad.net/DeactivatingYourAccount?highlight=%28account%29
<mrevell> daub: and if you want to remove a project, please email help@launchpad.net with the project's name and I'll pass it to one of the admins.
<ubotu> New bug: #140068 in launchpad "Librarian fails with LayerIsolationError during tests" [Critical,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140068
<daub> ok, i want to recreate it. because i have done some odd things with my branch. i want a clean base for further development
<mrevell> daub: Are you sure that you can't recover a clean base without removing your account and project? Have you asked on launchpad-users mailing list?
<thumper> daub: what's the problem?
<daub> ok, for my account i want my gmail address as mail email address. where people can reach me
<daub> can i remove a branch?
<daub> https://code.launchpad.net/~d-daub/forecastgnome/devel
<thumper> daub: real soon now
* thumper looking
<daub> doesn't look good
<ion_> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ion/hardware-connected/main and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ion/hardware-connected/ubuntu say Next mirror: Disabled. Is that intentional?
<thumper> ion_: yes
<thumper> ion_: you are looking at edge, which changes the meaning of an internal thing
<daub> ok, if i could delete the branch. and change my email address. that should be enough.
<thumper> ion_: when the roll out occurs, it will show the right thing
<pochu> daub: for the email address, visit https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editemails
<thumper> daub: you can mark the branch as abandoned for now
<thumper> daub: and you'll be able to delete it by the end of the week with the rollout
<thumper> daub: on Thursday
<ion_> thumper: Ok, thanks. I take it the next mirroring should occur after the rollout?
<thumper> ion_: the mirroring will continue as normal
<thumper> ion_: it is just the UI that is showing it incorrectly on edge right now
<daub> thumper: i have marked it as abandoned for now
<ion_> thumper: Hm, ok. Its been almost two days since the previous mirroring of those branches.
<thumper> daub: ok, that's good, it will not show up in the default listings
<thumper> ion_: which branch
<ion_> thumper: Those ones that i linked above.
<laga> mrevell: are you responsible for the PPAs?
<mrevell> laga: cprov is the PPA god :) What do you need?
<thumper> ion_: I'll check it
<ion_> thumper: Thanks!
<laga> mrevell: oh, I was wondering about the official point of view on "status: dependency wait". those builds are not automatically requeued. (also wrote an email to launchpad-users the other day)
<mrevell> laga: I'm afraid cprov is probably the best person to answer that. he'll be along later today.
<laga> mrevell: thanks.
<mrevell> np :)
<thumper> ion_: there has been some movement with internal machines, should be mirroring again soon(ish)
* thumper done for the day
<ion_> thumper: Ok, thanks.
<laga> hum. how can i enable translations for the mythbuntu-control-centre package in gutsy?
<carlos> laga: it's a package from universe
<carlos> laga: so we cannot support that yet, unless the package maintainer agrees on fetching the translations from Launchpad manually from time to time
<laga> carlos: since i am one of the maintainers, that's not a problem.
<carlos> laga: ok, then you will need to provide me with the initial tarball with the .pot and .po files, once that's imported, you should do later updates manually and fetch translations also manually from Launchpad
<laga> carlos: what's the directory structure inside the tar ball? should i tar up the po/ directory?
<carlos> laga: the same structure you have in your source code
<carlos> laga: in fact the tarball with the source code is enough as long as it includes an updated .pot file
<carlos> we will ignore the other files
<laga> there's not tarball, source code is managed in bzr/launchpad. i'll give you the tarball in a second
<carlos> ok
<carlos> laga: but make sure that the .pot file is refreshed so we have any string change that the package or upstream did after current .pot file was generated
<carlos> laga: otherwise there would be strings untranslated
<laga> good idea.
<laga> carlos: http://laga.ath.cx/mythbuntu-control-centre_translations_20070917.tar.bz2
<laga> carlos: while we're at it, can you also enable translations for https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythplugins ? this time, it's the debconf templates
<carlos> laga: that's already done
<carlos> laga: Mario requested me it a while ago
<carlos> laga: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/mythplugins/+pots/pkg-mythplugins
<laga> carlos: ok, great.
<carlos> laga: do you have a team to manage those packages? so any of you have rights to update the .pot files?
<carlos> instead of adding a concrete person...
<vprints> how often do translation suggestions get updated? it seems like some do get updated and some not ? If you look at the last suggestion in https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+source/restricted-manager/+pots/restricted-manager/et/13/+translate 
<vprints> and then the actual string it reffers to : https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/sympa/main/+pots/sympa/et/856/+translate
<vprints> it's not there
<laga> carlos: yes, "ubuntu-mythtv" is the team name
<vprints> so it shouldn't suggest it :P
<laga> carlos: why can't i see the translations for mythplugins when i go to https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythplugins ?
<carlos> vprints: it's done automatically, what would happen is just that we found the same suggestion coming from two different places, so we just choose one of them
<carlos> laga: because translations are per distroseries
<carlos> not per distribution
<laga> carlos: ah, ok. thanks.
<carlos> we have a bug open to show also translations per distribution with a link to all distro series
<carlos> so it's not so confusing
<laga> oh, great. :)
<vprints> carlos, i have a suggestion then :)
<vprints> To give translation team leaders the ability to erase bad translations
<vprints> to keep the translation memory clean (in a good way)
<vprints> and i mean like really erase
<carlos> laga: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/mythbuntu-control-centre/+pots/mythbuntu-control-centre
<vprints> so it wouldn't be suggested nor reffered
<vprints> :)
<carlos> vprints: that's a dangerous operation. What we are working on (and something is already released) is to hide suggestions that were already 'rejected' so it doesn't appear anymore.
<vprints> I know that
<carlos> vprints: we plan to add also a way to add comments to the rejected suggestions so if they appear in some other place, you can see the reason why it's a bad suggestion
<vprints> 's dangerous, that is why i propose it to team leaders :)
<laga> carlos: thanks! it's much appreciated :)
<carlos> laga: any future .pot update can be done directly from the upload link you get in that page
<carlos> np
<vprints> there are some awful translations in the memory :D
<carlos> vprints: I'm not sure it's a good idea, but anyway, please, file a wish bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta and we will see what could be done
<carlos> vprints: yeah, at some point we would be able to remove translations easily so maybe we could add a procedure to request removals, but limited to the administrators. For what you request.. we need to discuss it first
<vprints> yes, i really feel a need for it, i just wanted to talk to you before
<carlos> I agree that the use case is valid, but my concern is more related with the bad use (abuse) of it that would be done, given it's a destructive action that cannot be undone
<vprints> I'll propose a variant in the bub
<vprints> *bug
<carlos> ok, thanks
<Daviey> Hey, I have a question about the 'Poll' feature... Can it support multiple choice - with each team member only being allowed 1 vote?
<ubotu> New bug: #140412 in soyuz "Release file should show that it comes from a PPA" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140412
<mars_> a question : is it possible to use "-f" option for dput with ppa?
<Daviey> mars_: suck it and see?
<mars_> Daviey: i try here first but yes i'm testing
<marseillai> so "-f" option doesn't work
<marseillai> :)
<mndo> hi there!
<mrevell> hey mndo
<mndo> i am trying to import a pgp key and altough quering keyserver.ubuntu.com  my key is there launchpad keeps failing importing the key..
<mndo> any ideias?
<mndo> hi mrevell
<mrevell> mndo: what's your Launchpad username?
<pkern> Hi there. Is the @ubuntu.com sync a manual action?
<mrevell> pkern: semi-manual, I believe
<mrevell> pkern: Have you been waiting a while?
<mrevell> mndo: I have to go afk but if you send a mail to help@launchpad.net, I'll make sure the right person sees it.
<mndo> mrevell: ok, thnx!
<pkern> mrevell-afk: Only half a month, nothing to worry about. ;)
<mrevell-afk> pkern: I'll speak to one of my colleagues to ask him to take a look
<mrevell-afk> pkern: sorry for the delay!
<soren> marseillai: Uh... What?
<pkern> mrevell-afk: No problem at all, I was just wondering. Thanks for your efforts. (:
<soren> marseillai: Why would it not work?
<soren> marseillai: dput doesn't know that it's dealing with ppa.
<soren> marseillai: dput doesn't even know what a ppa is.
<marseillai> soren: i tried and it didn't work ppa told me that there is a problem with the MD5 sum of my file
<soren> marseillai: Well, if you got that far, dput did what you told it to: Reupload the stuff regardless of the fact that it had already done so (at least) once.
<marseillai> soren: yes dput work
<marseillai> it's ppa wich seem to don't accept to overwrite
<soren> marseillai: Nor should it :)
<lamont> cprov: can you tell me why there are no hppa build records for db4.{3,4,5}, apt, dpkg, etc?
<lamont> and how do we make LP try to build them even though it knows it can't, assuming that's the reason for the lack of records?
<cprov> lamont: P-a-s, maybe ?
<pochu> hello barry! how's the ML implementation going? Do you have an ETA for it?
<lamont> no
<lamont> cprov: my gut feel is that there is a loop of unsatisfied build-deps, and we'll need to break it by forcing a build record or 2.
<lamont> anyway - have to run the kids to school - back online in about an hour
<cprov> lamont: build record creation are only suppressed by P-a-s or source archhintlist (Architectures: xxx)
<lamont> ah, ok.  then wth didn't apt get a record?
<lamont> :-)
<lamont> anyway, gone 1 hour
<cprov> lamont: ping me when you are back.
<lamont> cprov: and I'm back
<pkern> mrevell: Seems to have reached the relevant persons, thank you. (:
<mrevell> pkern: It's fixed?
<pkern> mrevell: The alias was created on mx.canonical.com, yeah.
<mrevell> pkern: That's great news. I'm afraid I can't claim credit, though :)
<pkern> Perhaps somebody lurked here. ;o)
<mrevell> Maybe :)
<vprints> carlos, Bug #140435
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140435 in rosetta "There should be a possibility to erase bad translations from the translation memory" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140435
<ubotu> New bug: #140435 in rosetta "There should be a possibility to erase bad translations from the translation memory" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140435
<mpt> That's a dup
<charlieg> how do i remove bugs from a series?
<charlieg> e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/vexi/+bug/133941
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133941 in vexi/3.x "Vexi 3 missing grid functionality" [High,Fix committed]   - Assigned to Charles Goodwin (charlesgoodwin)
<charlieg> i (mistakenly) thought that adding the target series was a useful idea
<charlieg> altho in reality it means that we have to set everything (status, importance, assigned to) twice
<charlieg> and the bug shows up twice in my bug list
<charlieg> the original reasoning was that bugs didn't show up against a series unless added like that
<charlieg> of course they show up against milestones -- https://launchpad.net/vexi/+milestone/3.0 -- but not as 'release critical'
<charlieg> the series / milestone thing is a bit confusing really
<charlieg> i.e. confusing that they aren't really linked too strongly other than you create a milestone against a series... series information and milestone information doesn't seem to be linked otherwise
<yeager> when will you sync feisty translation with gutsy?
<ubotu> New bug: #140455 in launchpad "Bugs not showing against series" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140455
<ubotu> New bug: #140473 in launchpad "Ubuntu code of conduct file name" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140473
<mathiaz> Hi. How should I report that an automatic vcs-import in launchpad doesn't work anymore ? (case of apparmor)
<ddaa> mathiaz: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+addquestion
<ddaa> actually
<ddaa> all imports are broken at the moment
<ddaa> for some reason
<mathiaz> ddaa: ok. So there is no point in adding a question.
<mathiaz> ddaa: If it's a known problem and being worked on.
<ddaa> well
<ddaa> it's a known problem now
<ddaa> mathiaz: update for the apparmor import in progress
<mathiaz> ddaa: thanks.
<Mamali> hi to all , how can remove a project from launchpad ?
<ddaa> Mamali: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<ddaa> you need to ask here and an admin will do it for you
<Mamali> thanks ddaa .
<ubotu> New bug: #140481 in launchpad "ppa don't include universe repository for building" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140481
<Hobbsee> gah.  people.
* Hobbsee marks it as INVALID, saying "please read the freaking quickstart guide"
<Hobbsee> it's only mentioned *twice*, and you're expected to read it before using the service.  grr.
<stdin> hmm, not even tagged with PPA
<Hobbsee> nah - i suspect the guy isnt into documentation somehow.
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: there's a quickstart guide? :-)
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: no :P
<Hobbsee> i wish that the TOS said you actually had to RTFM before using the service, though.
<Hobbsee> Where the Fine Manual is the quickstart guide.
<Hobbsee> at least before filing bugs on it
<laga> cprov: hey. i hear you're the PPA god here. if you could spare some time, it'd be much appreciated if you could take a look at my "PPA: status: dependency wait - why isn't it automatically requeued?" email to launchpad-users
<laga> and reply there
<cprov> laga: I'm aware, it's a known issue and will be addressed in early times of 1.1.10 (next week). Sorry, but we have urgent bits to care this week :(
<Lure> why do people have to log in into LP to see ubuntu bugs? Like this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/139532
<LaserJock> Lure: I believe it's because it's from apport
<LaserJock> which can contain personal data
<Lure> LaserJock: right, private bug....
<LaserJock> so it's marked as private
<Lure> makes it hard to communicate with upstream that does not have LP account... :-(
<LaserJock> yep
<pochu> Lure: unmark it as private if it doesn't contain private data :-)
<Lure> btw, how to I link to upstream bug in current LP (using edge.lp.net)? Affects distribution/package does not seem to allow me to paste URL (wants also distro)
<pochu> Lure: affects project
<Lure> pochu: that one crashes on edge ;-)
<Lure> pochu: OOPS-625EC74
<pochu> hmm, then disable the redirection to edge for 2 hours ;)
<\sh> hmmm..how difficult it is to add to new bugreports a question of "Distribution you use: " and "What release" ? ;)
<Lure> \sh: I ask myself the same question over and over again...
<Lure> pochu: I did now, but still cannot link to upstream bugzilla...
<Lure> pochu: Affects project is only for LP registred projects...
<Lure> pochu: this have changed in one of recent versions of LP
<pochu> Lure: I don't know about another way to do it, appart of asking for a DB admin to manually do it, which I don't think is a good idea... :)
<\sh> Lure, because it's time consuming to ask the reporter all the time..and when I see the old reports where bugs were already fixed in new versions 
<\sh> s/versions/releases/
<Lure> pochu: Affects distribution/package seems to be right place (it has URL field), but it requires to specify another distro (even though it says that field is optional).
* Lure is confused
<salgado> Lure, doesn't it say that the package name is optional?
<pochu> Lure: Project is the way to go... I've done it sometimes, even with edge
<pochu> The URL of this bug in the remote bug tracker.
<pochu> ^ that is in Project...
<Lure> salgado: the problem is that Distribution is filled in with Baltix already and package contains the name of ubuntu package
<pochu> And LP will ask you for the remote tracker, if you haven't specified it yet.
<Lure> pochu: Affects projects gives me error already on load (even without edge.lp.net):  There is no project in Launchpad named "duplicates". You may want to search for it, or register it if you can't find it.
<Lure> pochu: and that field expect registred project from LP :-(
<pochu> Lure: well, there is a bug then, but they way to specify a bug watch is in Project, not in Distribution
<pochu> Which field? e.g. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnomebaker/+bug/140510/+choose-affected-product doesn't have another field than the remote bug
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140510 in gnomebaker "Please update to latest version (0.6.2)" [Undecided,New]  
<MadMan2k> hi, im getting the following error with my PPA build: Missing dependencies: gnulib
<MadMan2k> gnulib is in multiverse
<MadMan2k> *universe
<MadMan2k> might it be the problem?
<MadMan2k> since the package im trying to build goes in main
<MadMan2k> if so is there a way to specify which section a package should belong to?
<pochu> yes
<pochu> debian/control
<pochu> Section: universe/something
<pochu> A package in main can't build-depend on a package in universe
<MadMan2k> thx
<pochu> There's a nice PPAQuickStart in help.launchpad.net ;)
<MadMan2k> right, I should use the in page search more often...
<gnomefreak> !ppa
<ubotu> With Launchpad's Personal Package Archives (PPA), you can build and publish binary Ubuntu packages for multiple architectures simply by uploading an Ubuntu source package to Launchpad. See https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart.
<gnomefreak> :)
<salgado> Lure, can you reproduce the OOPS-625EC74 crash on edge?
<Lure> salgado: got OOPS-625EB103 now 
<Lure> salgado: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/139532/+choose-affected-product
<salgado> Lure, yeah, I managed to reproduce it as well
<salgado> Lure, does it happen with bugs in other packages as well?
<Lure> salgado: not for this https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/+bug/139563/+choose-affected-product
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 139563 in libgphoto2 "Wish: libgphoto2 2.4.0 for Gusty: Testers needed" [Wishlist,New]  
<Lure> salgado: but it oops on several kdepim bugs...
<salgado> Lure, is there any kdepim bug in which it doesn't oops?
<Lure> salgado: tried 10 bugs or so in kdepim, all fail
<salgado> yeah, that's what I expected
<salgado> Lure, the kdepim package in gutsy is linked to duplicates/kdepim-main (https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/kdepim/+edit-packaging). does that make sense?
<Lure> salgado: not sure - you would need to ask Riddell when back from vacation (in a week)
<ubotu> New bug: #140522 in launchpad "PPA: failled auto redirection to universe/video to universe/misc" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140522
<thumper> morning
<gnomefreak> can someone give me a hint here
<gnomefreak> let me try something
<ubotu> New bug: #140526 in launchpad "ProductSeriesVocabulary includes series from inactive projects" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140526
<StevenHarperUK> Hi I have uploaded my Person Package to the PPA service : but I cant work out why im getting (from the server log) Upload failed, the source file gets there and seems to be built properly : can anyone help me : page is here http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9322699/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.easycrypt_0.1.4_BUILDING.txt.gz
<StevenHarperUK> Anyone willing to look?
<salgado> Lure, just reported bug 140531 for the problem you encountered. thanks for telling us about that
<Lure> salgado: no problem, thanks for working on LP
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140531 in launchpad "Form to indicate a bug also exists upstream crashes if the package is linked to a series of an inactive product" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140531
<LaserJock> StevenHarperUK: what was the command you used to upload?
<StevenHarperUK>  dput stevenharperuk-ppa easycrypt_0.1.4_source.changes
<ajmitch> LaserJock: a bit strange, since it gets as far as a successful build
<LaserJock> yeah
<StevenHarperUK> I know is it a bug?
<StevenHarperUK> I git this back : Checking Signature on .changes
<StevenHarperUK> gpg: Signature made Sat 15 Sep 2007 11:58:45 PM BST using DSA key ID BEE08F9E
<StevenHarperUK> gpg: Good signature from "Steven Harper (Developer) <StevenHarperUK@gmail.com>"
<StevenHarperUK> Good signature on /home/steven/workspace/easycrypt/easycrypt_0.1.4_source.changes.
<StevenHarperUK> Checking Signature on .dsc
<StevenHarperUK> gpg: Signature made Sat 15 Sep 2007 11:58:43 PM BST using DSA key ID BEE08F9E
<StevenHarperUK> gpg: Good signature from "Steven Harper (Developer) <StevenHarperUK@gmail.com>"
<StevenHarperUK> Good signature on /home/steven/workspace/easycrypt/easycrypt_0.1.4.dsc.
<StevenHarperUK> Uploading to stevenharperuk-ppa (via ftp to ppa.launchpad.net):
<StevenHarperUK>   easycrypt_0.1.4.dsc: done.
<StevenHarperUK>   easycrypt_0.1.4.tar.gz: done.
<StevenHarperUK>   easycrypt_0.1.4_source.changes: done.
<StevenHarperUK> Successfully uploaded packages.
<StevenHarperUK> Not running dinstall.
<StevenHarperUK> So that seems right
<StevenHarperUK> and teh log suggests it all went well
<StevenHarperUK> I have been lookign forward to this all day : im a bit dissapointed
<LaserJock> I think cprov would need to have a look
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh its going to take an admin
<StevenHarperUK> the GUI and logs dont seem to give anything away
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, so the upload works, but the build fails?
<StevenHarperUK> No the build works too
<StevenHarperUK> the post build upload (on the server) seems to be bad
<StevenHarperUK> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9322699/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.easycrypt_0.1.4_BUILDING.txt.gz
<StevenHarperUK> see that link
<StevenHarperUK> it all looks ok
<geser> kiko: for the log it seems that the build succeeds but the upload of the binary debs fails
<pochu> StevenHarperUK: is it a native package? it doesn't have .diff.gz...
<StevenHarperUK> no there is no diff.gz
<StevenHarperUK> I made and packaged it myself
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, you should get a failure email notification
<StevenHarperUK> its all mine
<kiko> geser, where do you see a hint that it's failing?
<StevenHarperUK> 20:29:34 WARNING        easycrypt_0.1.4_all.deb control file lists section as main/util but changes file has main/misc.
<StevenHarperUK> found it
<StevenHarperUK> what do I have to change?
<geser> kiko: https://edge.launchpad.net/~stevenharperuk/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<LaserJock> well, that'd just be a warning, it shouldn't fail on that
<StevenHarperUK> Do i have to change the control file
<kiko> odd.
<kiko> cprov?
<ubotu> New bug: #140531 in launchpad "Form to indicate a bug also exists upstream crashes if the package is linked to a series of an inactive product" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140531
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:22 INFO    creating lockfile
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Initialising connection.
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Beginning processing
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Checked in /srv/launchpad.net/builddmaster/incoming, found ['20070917-215620-395292-970335'] 
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Considering upload 20070917-215620-395292-970335
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Considering changefile ~stevenharperuk/ubuntu/easycrypt_0.1.4_i386.changes
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Finding fresh policy
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Changes file can be unsigned.
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 INFO    Processing upload easycrypt_0.1.4_i386.changes
<geser> kiko: I've see this also on some official builds too in the past
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Beginning processing.
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 WARNING Unable to grok section 'util', overriding it with misc
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Verifying the changes file.
<cprov> StevenHarperUK:  de-crackfy you building script it is generating conflicting changesfile  / deb-control
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Verifying files in upload.
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Verifying binary easycrypt_0.1.4_all.deb
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Verifying timestamps in easycrypt_0.1.4_all.deb
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   No signer, therefore ACL not processed
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Do verify signer ACL for PPA
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Finished checking upload.
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 WARNING Upload was rejected:
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 WARNING        easycrypt_0.1.4_all.deb control file lists section as main/util but changes file has main/misc.
* mode/#launchpad [+o kiko]  by ChanServ
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 INFO    Committing the transaction and any mails associated with this upload.
<StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 DEBUG   Moving upload directory /srv/launchpad.net/builddmaster/incoming/20070917-215620-395292-970335 to /srv/launchpad.net/builddmaster/rejected/20070917-215620-395292-970335
* StevenHarperUK was kicked off #launchpad by kiko (kiko)
* mode/#launchpad [-o kiko]  by kiko
<LaserJock> heh
<cprov> :)
<ajmitch> oh dear
<StevenHarperUK> Im back
<kiko> wb StevenHarperUK 
<kiko> now as cprov was saying:
<kiko> your build script is generating a conflicting control file.
<StevenHarperUK> ok so my control file and my changes log dont match
<kiko> cprov, how could he have easily seen that?
<cprov> kiko: the WARNING.
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, right. the control file is validated when the binary upload is done. 
<kiko> cprov, that should not be a warning, it should be a fatal error.
<StevenHarperUK> ok so whats actually wrtong with it
<kiko> cprov, is it possible to fix that?
<StevenHarperUK> Yeh its a bug : it should say ERROR not Warning : change teh log level
<kiko> StevenHarperUK:
<kiko> <StevenHarperUK> 20:56:26 WARNING        easycrypt_0.1.4_all.deb control file lists section as main/util but changes file has main/misc.
<StevenHarperUK> I cant find any refrence to main/misc in changes
<kiko> cprov, I mean, to the uploader the fact that binaries are also uploaded is an implementation detail.
<cprov> kiko: well, process-upload works in batch mode, the fact that one upload was rejected is a warning, not an error in that scope
<kiko> cprov, that's irrelevant to the end-user. can we fix it?
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, "main" is implicit, another problem in our log output.
<cprov> kiko: sure, file a bug
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, can you file a bug so that we provide better log output to you?
<StevenHarperUK> Oh yes : do I put it into Launchpad bugs?
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, yes, under the product /soyuz
<StevenHarperUK> Ok ill do that
<StevenHarperUK> I still cant find a reference to the Misc
<StevenHarperUK> my chnages file has no section
<StevenHarperUK> is that the problem
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, yes, actually.
<cprov> StevenHarperUK: yes, empty sections are overridden to 'misc'
<StevenHarperUK> ok what should my line look like?
<StevenHarperUK> current is : easycrypt (0.1.4) gutsy; urgency=low
<cprov> StevenHarperUK: doesn't lintian complain about it ?
<cprov> StevenHarperUK:  debian/control ->  Section: ...
<StevenHarperUK> should it be : easycrypt (0.1.4) gutsy; urgency=low; section=main/util
<StevenHarperUK> The control file is right
<StevenHarperUK> I want to know what to put in the chnagelog
<StevenHarperUK> Is this the correct format ? : easycrypt (0.1.4) gutsy; urgency=low; section=main/util
<LaserJock> no
<StevenHarperUK> any hints?
<LaserJock> it's in debian/control
<StevenHarperUK> I have put it in debain control
<LaserJock> and did you rebuild the source package?
<StevenHarperUK> Section: util
<StevenHarperUK> It was in : in the first place
<StevenHarperUK> the log says that the control has Util and the chnagelog has misc
<StevenHarperUK> theres nothing in the changelog
<StevenHarperUK> so Presume it defaulting to misc
<LaserJock> no the changes, not changelog
<StevenHarperUK> I want to know the format of teh control file
<StevenHarperUK> ok changes
<LaserJock> so did you rebuild the source package?
<geser> StevenHarperUK: opening your control file with vim and syntax-lighting shows an error in Section
<StevenHarperUK> vim to the rescue
<StevenHarperUK> so is >Section : util      invalid?
<geser> StevenHarperUK: according to http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-archive.html#s-subsections util is not valid but utils would be
<geser> you missed an "s"
<StevenHarperUK> if a singel s character fixes it it would be nnice :P
<geser> after adding the s my vim is happy
<StevenHarperUK> thanks
<StevenHarperUK> I use Eclipse
<StevenHarperUK> so I dont get your Vim benifits :p
<StevenHarperUK> I never thought I'd say that
<LaserJock> emacs also has it ;-)
<StevenHarperUK> vim++
<StevenHarperUK> I have just re-uploaded..... Ill watch teh logs
<ubotu> New bug: #140533 in blueprint "Blueprints in progress can't depend on completed blueprints" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140533
<StevenHarperUK> Hmm think I may have another bug
<StevenHarperUK> because it thinks it was a success last time : the new upload has not appeared in my GUI
<StevenHarperUK> https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds/samarium/+history
<StevenHarperUK> Can an Admin Clear it?
<StevenHarperUK> Or is it going to work anyway?
<LaserJock> did you bump the version?
<StevenHarperUK> Do I have to?
<LaserJock> yeah
<StevenHarperUK> I have a user base I dont was to jump versions just to hack it
<LaserJock> you can't upload two of the same version
<StevenHarperUK> I did before I used dput -f
<StevenHarperUK> the upload worked : it just hasn't appeared on the Queue
<LaserJock> it'll probably get rejected
<StevenHarperUK> So I should bump the Version : ok ill try that
<StevenHarperUK> (grudgingly) :P
<LaserJock> it works the same as the Ubuntu repos
<LaserJock> if devs screw up they gotta bump the version :-)
<ajmitch> which is why it's a great idea to not use versions without a packaging revision
<StevenHarperUK> OK ill bear that in mind
<StevenHarperUK> I have just re-submitted
<StevenHarperUK> I did get a failure email for the re-attempt of 0.1.4 : MD5 failure
<StevenHarperUK> makes sense
<StevenHarperUK> Just got the Accepted to Q message (email)
<StevenHarperUK> Its not appeared in my PPA Queue ? should it : or is ths a bug?
<StevenHarperUK> The only entry is for the failed 0.1.4
<StevenHarperUK> [FAILEDTOUPLOAD]    	 i386 build of easycrypt 0.1.4 in ubuntu gutsy RELEASE   Build started 59 minutes ago on samarium (xen-i386) and finished 57 minutes ago taking two minutes 
<StevenHarperUK> Shouldn't 0.1.5 be in the GUI after I get the accepted Email? 
<geser> it takes some time from the email till it appears on the pages
<StevenHarperUK> Ah right : I imagined it would be in the other order
<StevenHarperUK> Ill raise the bug with the Invaild section in the control file not reporting a failure : Ok?
<StevenHarperUK> I'm sorry : I have never raised a bug before... The Launchpad bug page is only letting me search for them : Do I need more rights to see an add bug link?
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, no. bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz has a "File a bug" button, doesn't it?
<StevenHarperUK> ta
<StevenHarperUK> is that ok? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/140542
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140542 in soyuz "Invalid Summary in debain control  causes failure, but log only says WARNING" [Undecided,New]  
<StevenHarperUK> didn't know new bugs appear in here
<StevenHarperUK> nice feature
<StevenHarperUK> Its been 20 minutes since I uploaded 0.1.5 it hasn't appeared yet : is it possible it has got stuck?
<StevenHarperUK> cprov ?
<cprov> StevenHarperUK:  one sec
<ubotu> New bug: #140542 in soyuz "Invalid Summary in debain control  causes failure, but log only says WARNING" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140542
<cprov> StevenHarperUK:  reload the page ...
<StevenHarperUK> I have : its just appeared.. ta
<StevenHarperUK> what was the problem?
<StevenHarperUK> oh FYI the PPA page for me does show that the 0.1.4 was in misc : so I did have 2 places to get the hint.
<cprov> StevenHarperUK: apart from you being too anxious, nothing ;)
<StevenHarperUK> I have waited all day : I M excited to use PPA
<StevenHarperUK> Thanks for all the help
<cprov> StevenHarperUK: no worries, thanks for using PPA.
<StevenHarperUK> I have a package that makes USB Speedtouch modems work, however it has non-free firmware included, can I puload that to PPA or is it not allowed?
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, that's best posed as a question to the support link above.
<StevenHarperUK> ta
<StevenHarperUK> Is there anywhere to see the Queue detail for all packages Queued for building : the PPA GUI (me) shows that it is Queued, the Server status shows a log, it would be nice to have a master Queue view so we can see what's queued to be built
<StevenHarperUK> does such a thing exist or should I suggest it?
<kiko> launchpad.net/+builds?
<StevenHarperUK> That shows the servers: and a click on them shows the current job
<StevenHarperUK> but you cant see whats queued
<kiko> yeah, there isn't a view of the queue per se
<kiko> cprov, would actually be cool to get a queue view if we get the scoring reimplemented
<StevenHarperUK> kiko can you assist : I have a success : https://edge.launchpad.net/~stevenharperuk/+archive/+build/395401 : but i cant find the bed in my archive...
<StevenHarperUK> hasve a done something wrong?
<cprov> kiko: ubuntu/+ppas/+builds like UI ? the url is impossible, I know, but it has to somehow restricted a certain domain.
<kiko> cprov, well.. it could be global :)
<kiko> StevenHarperUK, as cprov said, it might be that you are a bit impatient. :)
<StevenHarperUK> yeh I thought that may be the case.... but I just presumed that a success on the GUI means that the job has finished
<cprov> kiko: not exactly, that would be restricted to Ubuntu PPAs
<StevenHarperUK> Maybe the GUI should say  that
<cprov> kiko: and thus easily replicated to other distribution PPA (I shouldn't  have said that ...)
<kiko> cprov, what I"m saying is that we could show a global build queue.
<kiko> oh, right, the builders aren't shared
<kiko> good point
<cprov> kiko-fud: err, they are shared ... between distributiuons/distroseries/pockets/ppas .... so you are right "Ubuntu PPAs Pending Builds" would be inaccurate ... 
<kiko-fud> cprov, they aren't shared between Ubuntu primary and PPAs though right?
<cprov> kiko-fud: we need a more global queue '/+builds/+builds' :/ (provided by IBuilderSet)
<cprov> kiko-fud: right, trusted/untrusted builders.
<StevenHarperUK> when I add my line to sources.list what do I put in the <> bit ? : deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/stevenharperuk/ubuntu gutsy  <development release> main restricted universe multiverse
<StevenHarperUK> sorry ignore that
<StevenHarperUK> its working
<cprov> StevenHarperUK: you've already set the suite, 'gutsy' (as you can use 'feisty', 'edgy', 'dapper')
<StevenHarperUK> thanks for the answer
<cprov> kiko-fud: maybe +builds/+ppa-builds (build.archive != primary). Anyway, later ...
<StevenHarperUK> Is it possible to have 1 source package go to multiple distos (gutsy and feisty)?
#launchpad 2007-09-18
<StevenHarperUK> do I have to submit different versions with a changelog value of feisty, then gutsy?
<StevenHarperUK> Can anyone help?
<kiko-fud> StevenHarperUK, if the packages differ, then the versions need to be different.
<kiko-fud> the problem is that the binaries will be different because they need to be recompiled against different chroots
<StevenHarperUK> Right so should I make a 0.1.6 for feisty then a 0.1.7 for gutsy?
<StevenHarperUK> or just packaging version chnages?
<StevenHarperUK> 0.1.5-0 -> 0.1.5-1
<kiko-fud> StevenHarperUK, I think so at least, but cprov-afk and LaserJock are the ones who know :)
<gnomefreak> is there a way i can steal back an email address from a team that was made for something else :( im not sure why the person made it
<LaserJock> bah, StevenHarperUK is gone
<poolie> hi
<poolie> i thought launchpad was now fixed to obscure email addresses in bug comments when they're shown to unauthenticated users
<poolie> but this seems not to be true on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/140563/?loggingout=1
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140563 in bzr "unicode command line options cause unicodeencodeerror traceback" [Low,Triaged]  
* Rinchen takes a peek
<gnomefreak> Originally reported by
<gnomefreak> that i havent seen before
<gnomefreak> with email atleast
<poolie> i just typed that in
<gnomefreak> than it wouldnt have showed it if you didnt add it?
<poolie> uh, yes
<poolie> however, the intended behaviour is iirc that it should not show it even if i did add it
<Rinchen> email addresses should be obscured from anonymous access. 
<poolie> Rinchen, it seems to work for comments but not for the original description
<gnomefreak> Rinchen: but he added it to the bug report himself
<gnomefreak> anything i type ina  report will show up
<gnomefreak> someone would have to monitor it and pull it no?
<poolie> gnomefreak, the intended behaviour is that even if someone explicitly enters an email address, it will not be shown to anonymous users
<poolie> as an antispam measure
<gnomefreak> when was this put into effect? i thought tha twas only for replying by email
<poolie> gnomefreak, this has always been the policy, but it was only implemented for bug comments a couple of months ago
<Rinchen> well, in this case, if I understand correctly, gnomefreak is correct.
<gnomefreak> i thought it was just done for replies or reports sent by email
<gnomefreak> not for reporting it on LP
<Rinchen> I can view tickets with email addresses in their text fields 
<poolie> i'm pretty sure that's a bug
<gnomefreak> that would be nice if while it was held in security to be removed than but not all bugs go through that
<Rinchen> I cannot view email from the person page though 
<poolie> there's a firm principle, confirmed by steve on the list a while ago, that 'we do not show email addresses to anonymous users'
<gnomefreak> Rinchen: i like the idea alot but i havent seen anything in place for it or heard of it being done for random reports in LP just emails
<Rinchen> poolie, yes. I'll check with Steve to see if this falls within that. 
<poolie> originally bug 60195
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 60195 in launchpad-answers "May need to obfuscate email addresses in comments" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/60195 - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
<Rinchen> googlebot has already indexed a number of these with email addresses in the text format
* gnomefreak wonders if it was just done for answers
<LaserJock> I don't think so
<LaserJock> I've seen corresponding bugs for other things
<Rinchen> no, it was done for bugs and answers
<Rinchen> poolie, did you file a bug on this yet? 
<poolie> i will in a sec
<gnomefreak> im seeing that
<poolie> (phone)
<gnomefreak> why not just reopen the one above
<gnomefreak> since it isnt fixed as it should have been from what im seeing, atleast ive never seen the mask before at all
<Rinchen> poolie, you've got mail
<poolie> tell me about it :/
<Rinchen> gnomefreak, the above ticket was for comments only. This is a slightly different area. I've asked to see what we should do with this one.
<gnomefreak> ok
<Rinchen> gah...wife is calling about dinner (ooh late one at that)
<ubotu> New bug: #140575 in launchpad-answers "email addresses in bug descriptions should be obfuscated" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140575
* Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad.log
<ubotu> New bug: #140587 in launchpad "long quoted passages are not folded when they contain paragraphs" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140587
<gnomefreak> i just pushed a package to PPA about 2 hours ago and its set at pending/removal why is it set to that if it was just uploaded and no higher version is there
<gnomefreak> for some reason it seems it hasnt been pushed to build yet either
<gnomefreak> and i got email that it was accepted
<thumper> = AU launchpad reviewer meeting =
<thumper> == Agenda ==
<thumper>  * Roll call
<thumper>  * Next meeting
<thumper>  * Queue status
<thumper>  * Branches with conflicts
<thumper>  * Mentoring update
<thumper> lifeless has asked me to chair
<thumper> as he is busy
<thumper> * Roll call
<spiv> I'm here.
<BjornT> me
<jml> hi
<jtv> me
<thumper> jamesh: ping
<thumper> * Next meeting
<thumper> everyone ok with same time next week?
<jml> sure
<thumper> I'll be on holiday
<BjornT> i won't be there (since i'll be in london)
<thumper> * Queue status
<thumper> Total of 5 waiting, 3 over
<thumper> 2 of those are jamesh's
<thumper> and unfortunately he doesn't seem around 
<jamesh> pong
<thumper> just the person we're looking for
<thumper> jamesh: if you are going to be busy with the Librarian stuff, do you want to reject the reviews?
<thumper> or are they coming?
<jamesh> I'll see about sending them today
<thumper> ok
<thumper> * Branches with conflicts
<jamesh> at the moment we're waiting for results from the test run on the PQM box
<jamesh> (the librarian problems, that is)
<thumper> Anyone know what this is supposed to be for?
<thumper> There aren't any pending with conflicts
<thumper> no-one?
<thumper> ok, moving on then
<thumper> * Mentoring update
<thumper> how goes the mentoring?
<thumper> jtv, jml: anything you'd like to add?
<jtv> not really
<spiv> No problems so far (from this mentor anyway).
<jml> thumper: I'm happy with the mentoring I've had.
<thumper> good
<thumper> * Any other business?
<thumper> 5
<thumper> 4
<thumper> 3
<thumper> 2
<thumper> 1
<thumper> = Meeting ends =
<jml> thumper: thanks
<thumper> short and sweet
* thumper goes for dinner
<lifeless> jml: it passed
<lifeless> jml: what now
<jml> lifeless: I pull my hair in frustration.
<jml> lifeless: could you please run it again? if it fails, then I guess we'll keep trying to reproduce the error locally.
<jml> rather, we'll continue trying to etc.
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> its off
<jml> lifeless: thanks
<marseillai> hi. i wouldliketo know what mean penging removal status for a source package in PPA? he is in build queue or not? i ask that because i've receive an email yesterday saying he has been accept but there is still nothing and i see this status.
<laga> what's your ppas name?
<marseillai> laga: cyrilb856
<laga> marseillai: alright, let's look at the version numbers
<laga> you had "kde4base - 3.93.0-0ubuntu5" in there, but you uploaded "kde4base - 3.93.0-0ubuntu1~feisty3"
<marseillai> arf he doesn't like it :s
<laga> your last uploaded is has a lower version number than your older one
<marseillai> oki
<laga> try 3.93.0-0ubuntu6~feisty1 or something
<marseillai> thanks laga
<laga> np
<marseillai> yes it's what i'll do
<laga> FYI: 3.93.0-0ubuntu6~feisty1 is "less" than 3.93.0-0ubuntu6
<marseillai> yes that i know! :) but in fact i didn't know ppa will look at my version number
<laga> it should have rejected the package in the first place, IMHO
<laga> you could file a bug for that, if it's not already done
<marseillai> i'll do it laga this evening
<marseillai> today i'm a bit busy irl
<elmargol> can I access my ppa over ftp or rsync?
<elmargol> I try to mirror it to my webspace
<laga> you can use apt-mirror
<ion_> An idea about how to implement signed PPAs: have launchpad create a new PGP key for each PPA and sign them using it. The private keys stay within launchpad.
<elmargol> thats ultra insecure
<ion_> Well, at least the user would know a PPA has been signed with they same key it was signed with the last time.
<ion_> As to knowing whether to trust the PPA, the situation wouldnt be any better than without signing.
<ion_> or worse
<soren> elmargol: Why?
<soren> elmargol: And when you've answered that question, consider how you think it's done in the official Ubuntu repositories.
<slytherin> Can anyone tell me how can I upload a package to PPA such that it gets built for edgy and above?
<slytherin> Can anyone help?
<laga> slytherin: you need to specify that in the changelog
<laga> personally, i make separate uploads for every package im building
<slytherin> laga: Ok. I assumed I have to do it in changelog, but was not sure.
<laga> slytherin: btw, you can't upload the same version of a package for more than one distro
<slytherin> laga: LOL. So I will have to add something like ~edgy in version, right?
<laga> yes
<slytherin> laga: One more question. My build have failed. If I upload source for same version again with the fix and say retry build, will it work?
<Hobbsee> slytherin: you need to bump the version.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Ok.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: it wont let you upload the same version again
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Or perhaps change the version altogether, right? like adding ~edgy1
<Hobbsee> adding ~edgy1 will make the version lower, so it will reject (or should.  otherwise it will do other nasty things)
<slytherin> Hobbsee: hmm. I guess I will just bump the version.
<Hobbsee> if you add a -edgy1, that will work
<Hobbsee> but ~ is lower than everything else
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Ok.
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Is there no way to force upload same version? Because I am seeing option in dput manpage
<slytherin> Hobbsee: Or is it the feature of PPA that it will reject the upload?
<laga> slytherin: ppa will reject it
<slytherin> laga: Ok.
<Hobbsee> slytherin: it's a feature of soyuz that it will reject it, yes.
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: do you know how i could build on ppa a package wich need a dependency i can only find in feisty-backport?
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: errr....i'd imagine that you'd have to upload the feisty-backport verisno to your ppa, then build it.
<Hobbsee> cprov: ?
<marseillai_> no Hobbsee the package is rejected with this error : PPA uploads must be for the RELEASE pocket.
<Hobbsee> oh, yes, i guess it would
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: then i suspect you either do something interesting (like, reupload the feisty-backports version with "feisty" in the changelog) to your PPA, or give up
<pochu> barry-away: re: mailing list... I'd like to know how it is going, and whether you have an ETA for it :)
<ignas> hi, sorry to be bothering you, but would it be possible to get a pot file reviewed?
<ignas> it's schooltool Series: development, lyceum.pot
<marseillai_> Hobbsee: already done for feisy and it ftbfs for build dependency missing
<ignas> please
<slytherin> ignas: Why review?
<ignas> because it's stuck in the queue for more than a day
<ignas> and i would like to start translating it as soon as possible
<ignas> it's in "Need Review" state at the moment
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: darn.  
<Hobbsee> marseillai_: wait to see what cprov says
<marseillai_> oki
<marseillai_> thanks
<marseillai_> because i can't build it on my computer 
<gnomefreak> why would a new PPA upload be set to Pending/Removalbeen like that over 9 hours atm
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: because it's older than the previous version?
<gnomefreak> no
<gnomefreak> we changed names but its still higher than latest afaik
<Hobbsee> check with dpkg --compare-versions
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: it looks like it is i didnt notice but 3.0a8 is > 3.0~a8
<gnomefreak> is it possible for an LP person to remove a package?
<gnomefreak> from PPA
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: just upload a higher version
* gnomefreak was hoping to aviod that if i could
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: why?
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: because it takes forever to build and upload with this POS
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: if the .orig.tar.gz is the same...
<gnomefreak> close to 1 and 1/2 hours just to upload ffox-trunk
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: it wont be due to versioning
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: oh, your'e uploading natively?
<gnomefreak> i would have to rebuild orig.tar with new version than build than upload
<Hobbsee> why are you building natively?
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: natively? i always build from my PC
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: you know about native versioning, as opposed to having a .diff.gz, a .dsc, and an orig.tar.gz?
<Hobbsee> that doesnt rely on what machine you build on.
<Hobbsee> besides, it wont take that long to build the source.
<Hobbsee> and, if your'e doing things sanely, you wont have to upload the .orig.tar.gz each times - only for new upstream versions.
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: dont understand the versioning was changed by someone lately, all i did is build it as i would in a chroot and dput -f ........ i dont see a need to use a ssh into someone elses build-env if i have it here
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: had to someone changed the versioning
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: otherwise i wouldnt have
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: then change it back?
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: they did it for a reason im waiting to find out more info
<Hobbsee> as in, did they change the versioning because they were incompetent, or because they thought it would be better?
<gnomefreak> Hobbsee: no there were reasons for it
<gnomefreak> i dont maintain ffox-trunk branches i just sponser the uploads for them
<Hobbsee> mrevell-lunch: are you around?
<Hobbsee> mrevell-lunch: small typo fix.  s/universe/devel.'/universe/devel'./ on https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
<charles> Hi. Is anyone around to answer a question about what type of projects can be hosted on Launchpad?
<matsubara> Hobbsee: it's a wiki. You can edit it. :-)
<Hobbsee> matsubara: i expect i have to be an employee to edit.
<Hobbsee> matsubara: either that, or you're trying to make sure people *dont* edit it, by hiding the registration box, etc, away
<LarstiQ> charles: proprietary is not a great idea, but any free software project should be fine
<charles> Oh it's free. But it's not software in the same sense as an application.
<charles> Q:It's a physics textbook written in LaTeX. I have it hosted on http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/introphysics, but I would like to use BZR and the tools available on Launchpad.
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Hey - thanks for the typo note. As matsubara says, you can edit it but you need to log into your LP account on the wiki
<Hobbsee> mrevell: oh, hidden up there!
<charles> Q: I think it should be fine, but I would like confirmation before I proceed with the transition Any opinion?
<charles> Does anyone else know if a free textbook can be hosted on Launchpad?
<mrevell> charles: What licence is it under?
<ubotu> New bug: #140683 in rosetta "Scribus translations not in ubuntu gutsy" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140683
<charles> mrevell: Right now it's FDL, but I've been thinking about changing it to CC Attribution Share-Alike. It's written strictly by myself, so I can change it to whatever would be most appropriate.
<mrevell> charles: So long as it's under a free or open licence, you're welcome to host it in Launchpad.
<charles> mrevell: Great! I had applied to get it hosted on sf.net, but it was declined. They said that such projects tend to get too large due to images and such. Do you think there would be any problems with Launchpad?
<mrevell> charles: I can't imagine there'd be a problem. As you write it yourself, do you definitely need to host it on Launchpad though? Or are you planning to invite contributions from others?
<charles> mrevell: I certainly would like others to participate. I'm a physics teacher and I would like other physics teachers to get involved. The tools that others option provide are not a easy to use as those on launchpad. The simplicity of Launchpad would best serve those who might participate.
<mrevell> charles: That's fantastic, I'm glad you feel Launchpad is the best option for you. Do you know how to register your project in Launchpad?
<charles> mrevell: Also, I expect to keep most of the images as SVG, so I can script their contents.
<charles> mrevell: I've already register a code generator for Glade called Gladex (https://launchpad.net/gladex).
<mrevell> charles: Ah cool. Well, ping or mail me when you've registered your project. I'd be interested in having a look
<Hobbsee> charles: will it help me actually understand electrodynamics?  :P
<charles> Hobbsee: It should eventually, but that will take time.
<Hobbsee> darn.  and after that time, i'll have hopefully passed it anyway.
<charles> Hobbsee: I had started the project on nongnu (http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/introphysics), but after having gone through my Physics Education program at Rutgers, I realize that what I've done is not the best approach.
<charles> However, ther are other free physics textbooks available that might help: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Physics.
<siretart> hm. If a package's bug contact is a team, all members of that team should get bugmail for that pacakge, right?
<kiko-zzz> siretart, it depends on whether that team has a contact email address or not.
<charles> mrevell: Okay, it's registered: https://launchpad.net/openphysics. There's no content up yet, but you can bookmark the page and keep an eye on it for the future.
<siretart> kiko-zzz: oh, the teams hasn't. 
<siretart> kiko-zzz: this means no mail is sent? what's the point of setting the team as bug contact then?
<mrevell> charles: great thanks :)
<charles> Thanks for the help, everyone. Bye.
<kiko-zzz> siretart, if the team has a contact email address, it is mailed when the team is sent a notification. if it doesn't, all team members are mailed instead.
<siretart> kiko-zzz: uuuh, the team has a list set, but I wasn't aware of it.. sorry for bothering
<kiko-zzz> no worries.
<ubotu> New bug: #140694 in rosetta "[gutsy]  Important documentation translations in "Needs review" state" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140694
<ubotu> New bug: #140695 in rosetta "Tomboy missing upstream translations" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140695
<ubotu> New bug: #140697 in rosetta "Fast user switch applet is missing translations" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140697
<Le-Chuck_ITA> hi all
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I am in trouble again with amd64 builds on PPA and clock skew
<Le-Chuck_ITA> today it's a terrible day for my gutsy :)
<Le-Chuck_ITA> everything seems to be broken
<laga> yes. sound just broke for me.
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but amd64 builds is a bug in launchpad I suppose
<Le-Chuck_ITA> build log is...
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ... here!
<Le-Chuck_ITA> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9349269/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-amd64.xournal_0.4.1ubuntu1%7Eppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<Le-Chuck_ITA> checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... configure: error: newly created file is older than distributed files! Check your system clock make: *** [configure-stamp]  Error 1
<Le-Chuck_ITA> it happened 3 times over 4 only with amd64 builds
<cprov> Le-Chuck_ITA: why exactly did it fail ? the builder clock is out-of-sync or what ?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> I think so
<Le-Chuck_ITA> but am unsure
<yeager> correct timezone?
<elmo> this is a known bug
<elmo> sbuild needs to run ntpdate for the PPA builds before it starts
<elmo> infininty has a ticket open about it
<cprov> elmo: uhm, right. Thanks
<Le-Chuck_ITA> and how do I solve that?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> do I just re-upload and hope it goes right?
<Hobbsee> cprov: when will the bug about being able to upload older versions than what is in teh archive be fixed?
<Hobbsee> it's still catching people out
<elmo> Le-Chuck_ITA: you can retry if you like, but basically the bug needs to be fixed on our side
<cprov> Hobbsee: soon, when we sort overrides for PPA
<Hobbsee> cprov: how are you planning to sort that?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> elmo: this means nobody is building amd64 packages on ppa?
<kiko_> cprov, Hobbsee: has anyone answered my question "why are overrides important for PPAs"?
<elmo> Le-Chuck_ITA: it's a very intermittent problem
<Hobbsee> kiko_: as in, why not set everything for multiverse by deafult, so everything will build?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> ok I will retry
<elmo> (I don't personally understand why we have sections or even components for PPAs, but that's maybe just me)
<Hobbsee> elmo: habit?
<Le-Chuck_ITA> thanks a lot everybody
<Le-Chuck_ITA> got to go
<cprov> Hobbsee: universe would do, since ppas are not allowed to have non-free code (theoretically)
<marseillai_> hi cprov 
<cprov> marseillai_: hi
<marseillai_> i would like to know if it's possible in PPA to build a package wich has some build depend in feisty-backport ?
<cprov> marseillai_: no, it's not. 
<marseillai_> oki cprov thanks
<cprov> marseillai_: maybe you want to depend on the version in gutsy that generated the backport
<ignas> hi
<ignas> a question - if a project has multiple parts (let's say we are going from monolith model to a core with a set of plugins), and those parts are getting extracted into separate bzr repositories (without a common base)
<ignas> will i have to create separate projects on launchpad
<ignas> to keep those branches in the future?
<ignas> because i saw a feature planned to disallow having completely unrelated branches registered for the same project
<ignas> which would leave a set of utilities, and plugins "homeless"
<kiko> ignas, I
<bigon> SteveA: hi, could you add me in the launchpad-beta-testers team?
<kiko> ignas, I'm not sure what we'd do there. we do assume that in general one project uses a single branch
<kiko> ignas, can you ask to tim penhey (thumper@async), CC: launchpad-users?
<ignas> kiko: ok, i'll try to write this up in an email
<SteveA> bigon: mrevell can help you with that
<mrevell> bigon: Hi
<bigon> mrevell: hi
<mrevell> bigon: What's your Launchpad username?
<bigon> mrevell: bigon
<bigon> :)
<mrevell> :)
<mrevell> bigon: Okay, you're in the team! Welcome :)
<bigon> mrevell: thx :)
<mrevell> bigon: no problem!
<mrevell> Hobbsee: You still around?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: FSVO around, yes.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: what's up?
* mrevell googles FSVO
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Just wanted to ask you a bug you'd commented on
<Hobbsee> mrevell: for some value of
<Hobbsee> mrevell: shoot
<mrevell> bug 134220
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134220 in malone "Bug page has no information about current package version" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134220 - Assigned to Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: ah yes.  i was going to whine to mpt about that
<mrevell> Hobbsee: No need, he's marked it as Fix Committed :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: yes, but i dont like the fix.
<mrevell> Hobbsee: can you tell me why?
<Hobbsee> hence the needing to whine :
<Hobbsee> mrevell: basically, because that info is extremely useful to know at a glance.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: and because that doesnt tell me the things like the maintainer, etc.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: hmm.  i cant even see the change anymore
<mrevell> Hobbsee: On edge?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: it's not on edge - version is too delayed.  doesnt seem to be on staging either
<Hobbsee> i know i found this before...which is where i saw that the fix wasnt what i wanted.
<mrevell> Hobbsee: I'll mail mpt
<Hobbsee> mrevell: the dialog we had pretty much was perfect - to withold any of that information makes LP a lot harder to use for MOTU
<Hobbsee> (as far as i can recall, anyway)
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Thanks for the feedback on that.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: no problem.
<ubotu> New bug: #140767 in launchpad "OOPS reports should include the Launchpad page id" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140767
<ubotu> New bug: #140772 in launchpad "Daily OOPS reports should sort timeout oops by Launchpad page id" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140772
<ubotu> New bug: #123544 in kmplayer "Kmplayer Package does not contain translations" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/123544
<TomaszD> is there still a 7-day backlog of translation uploads?
<thumper> kiko: have you set me up an async forwarding email? :-)
<thumper> morning
<ubotu> New bug: #3918 in bzr "bzr doesn't handle filenames with newlines" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3918
<pkern> What's the recommended way of creating a team in Launchpad for team-maintained packages in Debian?
<pkern> I mean of course I could generate a "I am Utnubu team" mail to the utnubu-maintainers ML, but it's a bit silly.
<LaserJock> hmm, I don't quite understand the question
<pkern> LaserJock: I want to create a team based on https://edge.launchpad.net/~utnubu-maintainers
<LaserJock> ah, so you want to convert a person into a team?
<pkern> LaserJock: Kind of, yeah. "Something" which hasn't got an active LP account yet.
<LaserJock> I think you'll need an LP admin for that
<pkern> That's why I am asking in here, heh. But it's outside of BST working hours so... ;o)
<ddaa> your best bet to get admin actions done is https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<ddaa> I mean https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<Ceefour666> Hi all
<pkern> ddaa: Done.
<Ceefour666> I'm seeking help regarding a Test Failed SVN import
<ubotu> New bug: #140801 in launchpad "license table is obsolete" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140801
<lifeless> Ceefour666: please file a 'question' on launchpad-imports 
<ddaa> Ceefour666: I suggest you peruse https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+addquestion
<ddaa> Ultimately, I will probably be the one answering, but a Question is much easier for me to track.
<Ceefour666> Thank you for the suggestion... I'll look there 
<Ceefour666> Thank you ddaa and lifeless ... here's my question : https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+question/13639
<ddaa> Ceefour666: replied
<Ceefour666> "This check was put in place after we made a Debian sysadmin angry by checking out (multiple times) the whole repository for debconf, that contains a lot of tags." <-- pretty hilarous ;-)
<Ceefour666> do Ubuntu and Debian fights everyday? LOL
<ddaa> mh... well, some people did not find that hilarious at all
<ddaa> the sysadmin was cooperative and the issue was promptly resolved
<ddaa> but the fact IS we were spamming their svn server senseless
<lifeless> Ceefour666: we downloaded gb's of data 
<lifeless> Ceefour666: because svn tags are not semantic
<Ceefour666> Yeah indeed
<Ceefour666> I see the problem
<Ceefour666> I imagine checking out a whole project hundreds of times :P
<Ceefour666> It'd probably much better simply giving a complete, gzipped SVN dump :P
<ddaa> the related problem is that we do not WANT to import full repositories
<ddaa> but only trunk branches
<ddaa> the issue is that "trunk" is only a convention in Subversion
<LaserJock> man, I made the mistake of doing a full checkout of the Debian TeX svn repo one time
<LaserJock> 20GB
<LaserJock> took forever
<ddaa> Ceefour666: some repositories, such as yours, have a trunk branch that does not actually have "trunk" in its name.
<LaserJock> lifeless: is there any bzr plugin/app that will do CVS like bzr-svn?
<ddaa> and subversion gives us know way to know that a URL is actually a branch root (safe to checkout) or something else (that may potentially causes 100x more traffic than this repository normally generates).
<lifeless> LaserJock: no, but the bzr-cvsps-import plugin will convert
<ddaa> LaserJock: I promised I would physically harm whoever did that.
<ddaa> bzr-cvps-import does this the right way
<lifeless> LaserJock: cvs is substantially harder than svn to do just-in-time conversions on
<ddaa> cvs is not consistent enough to support transparent interoperation like bzr-svn does
<lifeless> ddaa: I have some ideas actually.
<LaserJock> ok
<LaserJock> darn
<LaserJock> I was hoping to get away with not using CVS anymore
<lifeless> ddaa: about how to make it work, with repo fuckage and all. But it would be a little slow.
<ddaa> lifeless: I have no faith in anything that tries to do that without content-addressed revision-ids
<ddaa> people are just too used to doing history-destroying surgery on cvs repos
<lifeless> ddaa: right thats part of it
<lifeless> ddaa: though not content addressed, just content derived.
<ddaa> right, you know what I mean.
<lifeless> ddaa: (note that these are very different things :))
<ddaa> in this case, I would have no objection
<ddaa> you know how critical referential integrity is to launchpad bzr hosting
<ddaa> (even if it's not really critical right now, it's going to be more and more)
<ddaa> that's the only thing I really care about
<ddaa> Ceefour666: about rails
<ddaa> it gives us a really weird error
<ddaa> REPORT of '/rails/!svn/bc/7513/trunk': Response exceeded maximum number of header fields. (http://svn.rubyonrails.org)
<lifeless> wow
<lifeless> special
<lifeless> jelmer: ^ ring any bells ?
<jelmer> yes
<jelmer> that server is b0rked
<lifeless> do you know what they need to do to fix it ?
<lifeless> can we cluebat them ?
<jelmer> try running "svn log " on that URL
<ddaa> Ceefour666: you should file another question, then we ask jelmer to tell you all about it there :)
<ddaa> url is http://svn.rubyonrails.org/rails/trunk
<Ceefour666> yes I've asked jelmer about it
<Ceefour666> I'll try asking the Rails guys to see if somebody's in charge of their SVN server
<ddaa> btw, you should log in reverse, to get the error soon
<Ceefour666> ddaa: the weirder problem is that on Rails, Launchpad says "test passed"
<jelmer> lifeless: I'm not quite sure what is misconfigured. it seems to be a proxy loop of some sort
<Ceefour666> ddaa: it should probably never passed the "test" in the first place
<ddaa> Ceefour666: it says "Processing"
<ddaa> we do not run automated tests anymore most of the time
<Ceefour666> I had this "Response exceeded" error on several SVN repos already.. (not just while in Launchpad, but my own)
<Ceefour666> not just for Rails
<Ceefour666> it seems setting up SVN repo is very hard :D
<ddaa> lifeless: we can learn from this for bzr
<ddaa> lifeless: soon or later people will want to run the smart server from apache
* beuno runs the smart server from apache
<ddaa> so the protocol must avoid excessive use of http headers
<Ceefour666> I think it's much easier to simply reverse proxy from apache?
<Ceefour666> oh so that's the problem
<ddaa> Ceefour666: just guessing
<Ceefour666> is it possible to track down the specific revision.. and then recreate (synth?) the problem?
<Ceefour666> Probably helpful for SVN guys if this is really an SVN/apache bug... and not simply a misconfigured repo
<ddaa> what do you "specific revision"?
<Ceefour666> I'll try David's advice of traversing the log in reverse
<ddaa> here we have the failure on the very first revision, that is the first revision for this path in the repository
<ddaa> (cscvs does not traverse branch copies and renames)
<ubotu> New bug: #140810 in malone "'this bug is a duplicate' mails are very confusing" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140810
<Ceefour666> ddaa: really? is it because 'trunk' didn't exist yet on revision 1 ?
<Ceefour666> ceefour> svn log -v http://svn.rubyonrails.org/rails/ --limit 1 -r 1
<Ceefour666> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Ceefour666> r1 | root | 2004-10-11 05:45:51 +0700 (Mon, 11 Oct 2004) | 1 line
<Ceefour666> Changed paths:
<Ceefour666>    A /subversion-client-config.txt
<Ceefour666> Initial test
<Ceefour666> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
<Ceefour666> seems to work fine for revision 1
<ddaa> svn log -v --stop-on-copy --limit 2 -r 1:HEAD http://svn.rubyonrails.org/rails/trunk
<ddaa> jelmer: this command works
* ddaa looks closer at the code
<lifeless> ddaa: hpss is already integrated with apache
<lifeless> ddaa: we don't use http headers at all
<ddaa> great
<Ceefour666> I'll try going to #subversion to see if somebody knows about this
<Ceefour666> Google search didn't seem to come up with anything meaningful :(
<ddaa> mh
<ddaa> bc7513...
<ddaa> got it
<ddaa> svn log -v --stop-on-copy -r 1:HEAD http://svn.rubyonrails.org/rails/trunk > rail.log
<ddaa> that reproduces it
<Ceefour666> jelmer: do you know the exact HTTP command that resulted on it?
<Ceefour666> This is interesting:  						One more... I turned off deflate in Apache's config:  	#Include /opt/csw/apache2/etc/includes/deflate.conf  	and SVNX is happy again. Clearly SVNX doesn't like the compression. Anyone know how to turn it off just for the SVNX client?  	Jamie     				
<jelmer> Ceefour666: I mentioned it to you when we discussed it earlier
<Ceefour666> From : http://forum.textdrive.com/viewtopic.php?id=14822
<Ceefour666> Does bzr-svn accepts compressed responses ?
<jelmer> Ceefour666: Yes - bzr-svn uses the standard svn client library
<jelmer> Ceefour666, I was able to reproduce the error with standard "svn log"
<ddaa> Ceefour666: so was I
<ddaa> svn log -v --stop-on-copy -r 1:HEAD http://svn.rubyonrails.org/rails/trunk
<Ceefour666> http://forum.textdrive.com/viewtopic.php?id=14822 <-- this is a pretty recent forum, and still no resolution yet.
<Ceefour666> jelmer: is it possible to make bzr-svn/svn to 'refuse' compressed responses?
<Ceefour666> An old thread that says this from the server-side log:
<Ceefour666>  [Tue Nov 15 17:26:59 2005]  [error]  [client xxxx]  Provider encountered an error while streaming a REPORT response.  [500, #0]  [Tue Nov 15 17:26:59 2005]  [error]  [client xxxx]  A failure occurred while driving the update report editor  [500, #190004] 
<Ceefour666> http://lists.ez.no/pipermail/sdk-public/2005-November/001752.html
<jelmer> Ceefour666, that's all in the subversion client library
<Ceefour666> this means the "bug" is not fixed for almost two years already
<jelmer> Ceefour666: try running "svn log -v http://svn.rubyonrails.org/rails/trunk"
<Ceefour666> jelmer: yes I did
<ddaa> jelmer: presumably, the application could catch this specific error and then try retrieving the log in smaller and smaller chunks
<jelmer> ddaa: that should be handled by libsvn / libneon in that case then where bzr-svn is concerned
<jelmer> ddaa: same goes for launchpad I guess ?
<ddaa> yes
<ddaa> it's the first time I see this problem, so unless the powers that be decide it's important and urgent, we are not going to bend over backwards in Launchpad to work around this bug.
<Ceefour666> jelmer: it seems related to MacOS X 10.4 servers: http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html
<Ceefour666> See: Why do I get occasional, seemingly inconsistent errors when checking     out over http:// from a repository running on MacOS X 10.4 (Tiger)?
<Ceefour666> Question is: Are rubyonrails.org SVN server actually runs MacOS X server?
<Ceefour666> ceefour> curl --head http://svn.rubyonrails.org/rails/trunk/
<Ceefour666> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
<Ceefour666> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 22:22:09 GMT
<Ceefour666> Server: Apache
<Ceefour666> Served-By: Joyent
<Ceefour666> Last-Modified: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:56:04 GMT
<Ceefour666> ETag: W/"7513//trunk"
<Ceefour666> Accept-Ranges: bytes
<Ceefour666> MS-Author-Via: DAV
<Ceefour666> Vary: Accept-Encoding
<Ceefour666> Connection: close
<Ceefour666> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
<Ceefour666> didn't give useful info :(
<lifeless> DAV
<ddaa> it's in a reply to a DAV REPORT request
<Ceefour666> I've sent some message to Rails-core and also to Joyent who hosts Rails SVN server
<Ceefour666> hopefully they'll respond some time
<Ceefour666> I'll see you guys again
<Ceefour666> Nice chatting with u guys
<ddaa> Thanks for your help
<ddaa> I hope we'll be able to get this import working
<ddaa> that would make us very happy
#launchpad 2007-09-19
<ubotu> New bug: #140818 in launchpad "Reset the socket default timeout in test setup harness" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140818
<ubotu> New bug: #140817 in launchpad "The librarian reconnects too often (and takes too long to do so)" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140817
<kgoetz> hi all. i just got an oops out of launchpad trying to file a bug. waited a few min and tried again with teh same result.
<kgoetz> apart from joining the lp list, any thoughts?
<kgoetz> just got the report through
<ubotu> New bug: #140864 in ubuntu "Not all Minnesota Team members are on ML" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140864
<tonyyarusso> grr
<tonyyarusso> wait on that - trying to make something more sane
<tonyyarusso> all right, still affects Launchpad due to the bug mentioned within the description, but marked Invalid for Ubuntu; transferred to team-specific project
<carlos> morning
<elmargol> I try to build a feisty package on PPA. My package need a package from universe. So I added Section: universe/devel do my debian/control file
<elmargol> And it still fails :(
<elmargol> Do I have to set this on every Package: or only on the Source: section?
<TomaszD> carlos, I was guided to have a word with you about an issue. It seems that translations for bluez-gnome and tracker are not loaded at all, apart from the desktop entries. Against what should I report this?
<carlos> TomaszD: hi
<carlos> it depends on why is that happening
<carlos> let me check...
<TomaszD> carlos, hi, I have no idea so I don't know whose fault is this
<carlos> don't worry, I'm able to discover it
<TomaszD> carlos, while we're at it, are there really no daily language packs for gutsy?
<carlos> TomaszD: due to technical problems it's done twice per week, Martin Pitt is enabled it again recently (it was turned off for a couple of weeks due to the changes in the new PPA infrastructure)
<TomaszD> carlos, so the ppa.dogfood.launchpad something repository is operational again?
<carlos> I think the url changed, you will need to check it with pitti directly
<TomaszD> carlos, right, thanks. This is not urgent, however the other one (bluez-gnome, tracker) is :] 
<carlos> tracker seems like only got translations yesterday
<carlos> I'm approving it now and should appear any time between today and tomorrow
<TomaszD> carlos, and bluez-gnome? :] 
<carlos> working on it...
<carlos> I only have one keyboard and a couple of hands! :-P
<TomaszD> lol
<carlos> ok, this one is our fault, the .pot file has been available for a while but we didn't approve it yet, I'm going to approve it now
<TomaszD> carlos, is there still a seven-day backlog of translation uploads? 
<carlos> no
<TomaszD> my last upload took 6,5 days to get to rosetta
<carlos> it's just some hours now
<TomaszD> ok
<carlos> in concrete, 10 hours
<TomaszD> carlos, so it also takes 10 hours between a new version of an application to gutsy (namely, restricted-manager) and an update in Rosetta to reflect new strings?
<TomaszD> new version of an application *upload
<carlos> I don't expect that it would take 10 hours (restricted-manager is a bad example because it's not updated automatically yet)
<carlos> that only means that, right now, we are importing files uploaded 10 hours ago
<carlos> but the imports go faster now, so maybe in 15 minutes it would be handling the ones imported 8 hours ago
<carlos> until the import queue is empty so it will become mostly real time again
<TomaszD> carlos, ah, so I would commend to update restricted-manager as the new 0.31 version has absolutely trashed the previous strings and it needs to be done all over again :P
<carlos> hmm, sorry, I did a mistake, for Gutsy we still have a day of backlog (I was looking to Dapper's entries...)
<carlos> TomaszD: I did an update on Monday
<carlos> TomaszD: is that something that changed since then?
<TomaszD> carlos, let me see
<TomaszD> carlos, yes, 0.31 has been uploaded 20 hrs ago
<TomaszD> so it needs an update
<carlos> ok
<TomaszD> wow, there surely is a communication or technical problem somewhere on the way, or both. Strange that this is done manually, too much room for an error
<carlos> well, the problem is that we only support main packages 
<carlos> and that application moved recently to restricted archive
<TomaszD> ah, ok
<carlos> and we need to do some changes in Launchpad to be able to handle it
<carlos> which should be ready with next launchpad update at the end of October
<TomaszD> ahm
<mrevell> morning all!
<TomaszD> carlos, you still there? Could you check xdg-user-dirs? Because this doesn't seem to pick the translations up as well
<carlos> yeah, I'm here (I just started my working day a couple of hours ago :-P)
<carlos> sure, let me check...
<carlos> TomaszD: I don't see anything wrong with that, last update was at the end of August
<carlos> TomaszD: just to be sure you are not confused by the behaviour of that package
<ubotu> New bug: #140897 in launchpad "launchpad keeps changing domain names and cookie names which logs me out" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140897
<carlos> TomaszD: if the translation changes after you initialise your session the first time
<carlos> you don't get it updated
<carlos> so if you got it untranslated, it will be keep untranslated for that already existing profile
<carlos> only new ones will get the new translation
<TomaszD> carlos, so the problem lies with ubiquity not getting translation packs during installation
<TomaszD> but I heard this will be fixed
<carlos> hmm, that's outside the scope of my knowledge
<TomaszD> right, nevermind :] 
<carlos> it would be that (which sounds like a bug)
<TomaszD> yes the bug is known
<carlos> or that it was not translated at the time you did the installation
<carlos> ok
<TomaszD> carlos, when there's a package upload, say 2.19.2 -> 2.20.0, when that new package contains new translations they are not being picked up, but the language pack that will be uploaded later will contain the new translations? is that how this works?
<carlos> yes
<TomaszD> carlos, alright, could you look up gnome-panel? Fully translated in rosetta but there's something missing in gutsy, namely "Home Folder" string isn't translated
<yeager> i guess the latest POTs are not uploaded yet
<yeager> i still wait for a feisty -> gutsy translation sync, especially (k)ubuntu-docs
<TomaszD> hmm ok
<carlos> yeager: the code is done, that's being tested to be sure it will not produce any performance problem in other parts of Launchpad
<carlos> so it should happen soon and we will schedule it regularly
<yeager> carlos: no worries, mate. i have plenty of other translation work to do in the mean time :)
<carlos> TomaszD: about your question, there is a .pot file pending to be imported for gnome-panel
<carlos> it was uploaded yesterday and It should be imported later today
<TomaszD> carlos, alright
<TomaszD> thanks
<Emme_NK> Hi!
<Emme_NK> which distributions and componentes are allowed for ppa uploads?
<laga> Emme_NK: feisty and gutsy. edgy as well, i think
* laga waves to Emme_NK from next town
<Emme_NK> I just got a reject: "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution" for gutsy
<laga> Emme_NK: have you seen the quick start guide at help.launchpad.net?
<Emme_NK> yes, but I could not find this info
<laga> Emme_NK: are you sure you uploaded to your ppa and not to the archive?
<Emme_NK> I have "incoming = ~emme/ubuntu/" in my .dput.cf
<laga> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net ?
<Emme_NK> yes, I cut&pasted the config from the wiki to my config file
<Emme_NK> just replaced my nick
<laga> and, how do you dput packages? are you specifying your ppa as target?
<Emme_NK> oh no, I missed that... 
<laga> heh
<Emme_NK> thanks
<mrevell> intellectronica: ping
<intellectronica> mrevell: hi
<slytherin> Can anyone please tell me what is expected time for removal of packages in 'Pending Removal' state in PPA?
<laga> hey, no need to wait for an answer
<ubotu> New bug: #140959 in launchpad "[RFE]  Automatically add keywords to PPA description based on published packages" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140959
<ubotu> New bug: #140965 in launchpad "Intermittent import errors when running tests" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140965
<ubotu> New bug: #140971 in rosetta "Help translate button link is broken" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140971
<barry> avast ye launchpadlubbers!  the eu/us review team meeting be startin' now.  if ye be present, answer ahoy!
<statik> ahoy
<intellectronica> aye
<sinzui> ahoy
<flacoste> ahoy!
<intellectronica> ehm, ahoy
<Hobbsee> ahoy!
<flacoste> wow, we now have an external reviewing in the team!
* flacoste welcomes Hobbsee
<salgado> ahoy
<BjornT> ahoy
<Hobbsee> hiya flacoste 
<barry> == Agenda ==   * Roll call  * Next meeting  * Queue status  * Watch out for global state changes  * Mentoring update 
<bac> 'hoy
<barry>  * Next meeting
<barry> same pirate time, same pirate channel?  does anybody know they cannot make it?
<barry> excellent.
<barry>  * Queue status
<barry> only 5 branches in needs-review, one is unassigned.  jamesh wins the award today with 2 branches over the sla
<barry> the general queue looks good, only one .10 branch there
<flacoste> Rinchen: ping
<barry> how did you all feel about week 3 this cycle?  it seemed to go pretty smoothly from a review standpointtttttttttttt (ignoring pqm insanities)
<Rinchen> flacoste, howdy
* barry loves tea apparently
<barry> did anybody have problems, comments, observations about this cycle's reviews?
<BjornT> wasn't there some problems with people not getting their branches reviewed early enough?
<sinzui> Week 3 was generally pain free, but as a trainee, I think a little unclear...I believe this is a topic for today
<barry> BjornT: i think there was a bit of a mixup with some mentoring over the weekend.  i probably dropped a backup mentorship i should have done
<barry> sinzui: can you elaborate?
<sinzui> Is there a protocol for handing off my review to my mentor?
<statik> sinzui: the way I did it before was to CC the mentor on the review
<statik> sinzui: but you can hand off to me via any communication method you like
<flacoste> we should add a 'Mentoring' section to the wiki
<sinzui> I should have coordinated better...I decided to have no one waiting on me so I reviewed on Monday to clear my queue, but I was not mindful that statik had a busy Monday
<bac> yes, directly CC the reviewer is good.  intellectronica has a working patch to barry's review submittal script that will cc the mentor
<barry> flacoste: https://launchpad.canonical.com/MentorProcess
<barry> though it could use improvement
<flacoste> barry: cool<
<barry> bac: should i put that script in utilities tdo you think?
<flacoste> barry: yeah, a noticeable improvement would be to explain how to coordinate with the mentor
<bac> barry: sure, after merging the patch.
<barry> flacoste: good idea.  i'm not sure we have consensus about that though
<intellectronica> i do think that it would be nice to have these scripts in the main tree, but they should probably be configurable then. i don't mind taking care of that
<barry> intellectronica: cool, thanks
<barry> do we all agree that the review should explicitly CC the mentor?
<sinzui> Aye
<flacoste> aye
<bac> aye
<barry> intellectronica: it might be nice if the mentor got a separate copy with [MENTOR!]  in the subject or something
<barry> cool.  anything else?
<barry> 5
<intellectronica> barry: sure, nice idea
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<sinzui> committing?
<sinzui> r=trainee,mentor?
<sinzui> ^ is that correct?
<bac> sinzui: we just did [r=mentor] 
<sinzui> sorry...submitting
<barry> sinzui: i think we generally r=trainee
<barry> but we don't give that out until the mentor signs off
<bac> oops [r=trainee] 
<sinzui> thank you
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry>  * Watch out for global state changes
<barry> kiko: do you want to say anything about this?  i did add a recommendation to the wiki
<flacoste> SteveA put it nicely in his email
<barry> flacoste: good point. did everyone read SteveA's email on this subject?
<sinzui> pylint is knackered in our lint script though
<flacoste> We should add to our reviewer guidelines:
<flacoste>     If code changes global state (for example, by monkey-patching
<flacoste>     a module's globals) then the test must be sure to restore the
<flacoste>     previous state, either in a try:-finally: clause, or at the
<flacoste>     end of the doctest, or in the test's tearDown hook.
<flacoste> (that's a SteveA quote)
<barry> sinzui: yep
<barry> any other questions on this topic?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<SteveA> gmb made a good point
<barry> 1
<SteveA> that sometimes, you use an API in the standard library
<SteveA> and it's an API that changes global state
<kiko> SteveA, such as messing with sys.path.
<SteveA> so, it might not look like doing something large and permanent
<SteveA> kiko: that's true too, although messing with sys.path looks more suspicious
<SteveA> because it is an assignment
<SteveA> whereas socket.setDefaultTimeout() is a method call
<kiko> sys.path.append("..")
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> my point is, it's more obvious that an append() mutates somethint
<SteveA> and everyone should know that sys.path is deep python magic ;-)
<kiko> "everyone" :)
<barry> SteveA: right.  the 'Default' in setDefaultTimeout() should be a clue too though
<barry> SteveA: cool thanks.  anything else?
<SteveA> that's true.  the other thing there is that, at a glance, 'socket' may not look like a global module thing
<SteveA> but more like an object -- the current socket we're dealing with
<barry> SteveA: very true
<SteveA> although it's weird to set a default timeout on a single socket
<SteveA> it's easily overlooked
<SteveA> I wrote an email today about improving pylint -- I wonder if that's possible
<barry> SteveA: dunno, but it's a good idea
<intellectronica> it's nice, in such cases, if you don't import objects out of the module but instead dereference them in every call
<SteveA> I like that ruby has a clear convention in the language for flagging operations that mutate things
<sinzui> SteveA: I was talking with thumper about this
<SteveA> cool
<SteveA> that's all from me.  thanks barry!
<barry> SteveA: thanks!
<sinzui> We need to incorporate a compatible version on pylint into out tree.
* sinzui took the rules and put it into his own lint script.
<flacoste> SteveA: but we are not running pylint regularly on the launchpad tree?
<barry> flacoste: no, pylint is effectively disabled in lint.sh
<kiko> because it gives so many damned false positives.
<statik> SteveA: ruby's bang methods aren't as helpful as they seem http://dablog.rubypal.com/2007/8/15/bang-methods-or-danger-will-rubyist
<barry> kiko: is there any hope of making that useful (e.g. would an updated pylint help?)
<sinzui> barry: A lot of hope.
<kiko> barry, it really gives a lot of false positives. if you look at lint.sh, you know, I spent a long time disabling non-critical problems
<proppy> hi
<barry> sinzui: sounds like you've decided on your FiF project for this week :)
<sinzui> kiko: I know, I've been running it for 6 months. I can put my mods into the script
<sinzui> barry: I was going to do it last weakend...I have a cold.
<kiko> sinzui, oh, by all means please do
<proppy> how do I fill the package name for a bug assigned to Ubuntu ?
<barry> sinzui: i think if you could get that working, it would be a huge benefit
<kiko> proppy, if you don't know, just leave it empty.
<barry> anything else?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry>  * Mentoring update
<barry> i think we kind of covered this already, but if there's anything else that mentors or recruits want to mention, please go4it
<sinzui> I guess not
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<kiko> barry, I think new reviewers really suffer from lack of docs.
<barry> 3
<kiko> there are many gotchas and hints that experienced reviewers know
<kiko> for instance
<kiko> careful with config updates
* barry winces
<kiko> use team participation
<kiko> SQLObject APIs
<kiko> I miss a checklist of things that a reviewer should check for
<kiko> we have this for mozilla
<kiko> jst even wrote an auto-reviewer script
<proppy> kiko: I know what package is it, I just don't find the input for filling it
<kiko> proppy, what page are you on?
<barry> kiko: we have some things like that, but they're really spread out in several wiki pages, and they're often incomplete.  i totally agree with you though.
<proppy> kiko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/140915
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 140915 in ubuntu "Please merge poker-network (1.2.0-1) from debian unstable main" [Undecided,New]  
<sinzui> What is the auto review script?
<kiko> proppy, click on the down arrow in the status table.
<kiko> barry, I wanted just a simple checklist
<proppy> kiko: oh thanks
<proppy> kiko: thanks thanks thanks
<barry> kiko: it's a great idea
<flacoste> we should have a CodeReviewChecklist like we have a DesignChecklist
<kiko> i.e. "if the code fetches a single object, does it use selectOne()"?
<kiko> does the test use BeautifulSoup? could it be converted to use one of the more efficient functions?
<barry> kiko, flacoste: could one of you start such a checklist?
<kiko> flacoste, if you just read through a few reviewer comments you'll notice that most of the time the comments are the same
<kiko> yeah, we should
<sinzui> The initials for BeautifulSoup is BS
<kiko> flacoste, I'll /msg you some suggestions
<flacoste> i can do a first-draft and others can add what I forgot
<flacoste> kiko: cool
<barry> flacoste: you rock.  thanks.
<barry> anything else on mentoring?
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<barry> that's it for the agenda.  since we have 10 more minutes scheduled, does anybody have a topic not on the agenda?
* barry has just one
<barry> in honor of talk like a pirate day, y'all should come up here for dinner: http://www.piratztavern.com/home.html
<barry> :)
<flacoste> barry: is it really 'talk like a pirate day'?
<Spads> it's "Punch Everyone Who Talks Like A Pirate Day"
<Spads> also, avast means "stop", not hello
<barry> flacoste: www.talklikeapirate.com
* barry hopes spads can't reach him
<Spads> barry: wrong continent!
<barry> Spads: phew! :)
<barry> MEETING ENDS
<barry> thanks everyone!
<Hobbsee> barry: planes are still in operation, though
<Hobbsee> barry: so you may only be safe for some hours.
<Spads> Hobbsee: he'd never get here in time
<barry> Spads: more true than you know :)
<barry> Hobbsee: it's Spads that has to come here though :)
<Spads> barry: No.  You will come here.
<Hobbsee> barry: exactly.  which makes my comments correct.
<Spads> This is how it is going to work.
<Hobbsee> barry: Spads' are the ones that are backwards :P
<Hobbsee> Spads: try prefacing with sudo?
<Spads> All pirate-talking people will come to london for a good shellackin'
<Spads> hahaha
<Hobbsee> hmm.  might be fun.
<Spads> Randall ftw
<Spads> Hobbsee: it'll be like thunderdome
<barry> walk the plank so to speak?
* Spads practices his punchin' arm
* Hobbsee keelhauls barry, completely confident in her safety
<Hobbsee> Spads: ARRRR!!!!!!!!!!!
<Spads> curse you
<Spads> and your international dateline
<Hobbsee> (no one in their right minds would come all the way to au)
<Hobbsee> hehe
<Hobbsee> Spads: curse you right back, for living in the past.  Stop being a coward.
<Spads> I live on the prime meridian, give or take a bit.  That's why all must come here.
<Spads> I'll punch all pirate-talkers at greenwich observatory
<Hobbsee> Spads: you're still behind the rest of the world.
<seb128> hi
<seb128> is there a way to workaround +packages timeouting?
<mrevell> seb128: cprov-lunch should be able to answer that when he's back from lunch
<seb128> mrevell: good, thanks
<Hobbsee> seb128: stop uploading so many packages :P
<seb128> Hobbsee: do you feel the GNOME power ;)
<Hobbsee> seb128: nope.  
<Hobbsee> seb128: it doesnt exist.
<Hobbsee> :)
<ddaa> No kde-gnome flamewar here ;)
<Hobbsee> ddaa: you'll note i didnt mention KDE nor GNOME...
<Hobbsee> ddaa: i just mentioned uploading too many packages.
<ddaa> Oh, sorry, I misinterpreted your previous message as statement that gnome was weak.
<ddaa> (before someone starts misinterpeting me, I am just being playful and good-natured)
<kiko> hey ajmitch 
<kiko> Hobbsee, has he been active?
<Hobbsee> kiko: -ENOCONTEXT.  who?
<Hobbsee> ddaa: nah :)
<Hobbsee> ddaa: oh, i said that gnome power doesnt exist, yes.  noted.
<kiko> Hobbsee, ajmitch.
<Hobbsee> kiko: oh right.  he was active earlier, but he'll long be asleep now.  it's 4am there.
<kiko> Hobbsee, it's just that it's been a while since I've chatted with him. thanks!
<Hobbsee> kiko: ahh.  no, he's still active
<kiko> thanks
<ubotu> New bug: #141017 in rosetta "Limit "other templates from the same source" on translation status pages" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141017
<ubotu> New bug: #141019 in soyuz "sync-source should not compare to ppa versions" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141019
<Hobbsee> mrevell: you around?
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah, tied up at the moment, but how can I help?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: any chance we can add some documentation on the FAQ of ppa about dpkg --compare-versions?  it seems that people need it, more so than a lot of what's already in that FAQ :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: and it seems that people still arent groking components, from what we see on -motu
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Sure. Right. Let's start with dpkg --compare-versions.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: can i be a pain and do it sometime when it isnt 2.30am in the morning?
<Hobbsee> (seeing as you say you're tied up, too)
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Oh yeah, absolutely, sorry, I thought you meant now.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: no, that was the "i'm putting up the white flag saying "we need to fix this""
<Hobbsee> :)
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Right, great. Let me make a note. Are you around tomorrow?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: unsure.  i may be in the land of no internet.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: if not, i'll be around in 2 days.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: if you're looking for concept ideas urgently, there are other ways of contacting me
<mrevell> Okay, cool. No, that's fine, I'll chat to Celso about it
<mrevell> Thanks for raising it
<Hobbsee> mrevell: no problem.
<Hobbsee> holy cow - there's lots of stuff that hasnt built.
<ubotu> New bug: #141029 in launchpad "Translations should have "same as original" option" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141029
<yeager> mrevell: had a good dinner? :)
<mrevell> yeager: rushed but not bad thanks. :)
<yeager> i submitted an updated translation to the CUPS project. they now require that the copyright is Apple Inc. how does that affect cups translations imported into launchpad and relicensed as bsd?
<tehk> Hello, Does anyone know if you can find out how many checkouts a launchpad project gets?
<kiko> tehk, hmm, interesting question.
<kiko> tehk, it's currently not actually possible
<kiko> ddaa: fun eh? :)
<ddaa> uh
<tehk> kiko, ok thanks 
* ddaa struggles with mapping this question in terms of bzr operations
<ddaa> I cannot even find an obvious way to map that in term of bzr operations...
<ddaa> our safest bet would be to add a specific command to the smart server protocol: CurrentlyDoing(checkout|branch|pull|log|...)
<ddaa> lifeless: how does that sound to you?
<stgraber> can't you determine that from the http server access logs (if we consider that checkouts are done through http) ?
<ddaa> that would not distinguish between "doing a new checkout" and "pulling new changes"
<ddaa> or even "checking whether there are any change"
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> it's a fun problem
<ubotu> New bug: #141046 in launchpad "lp-dependencies missing ssh" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141046
<ubotu> New bug: #141047 in launchpad "Missing versioned apt dependency for lp-dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141047
<ubuntu-laptop> kiko: can LP admins remove packages from PPA?
<ubuntu-laptop> if needed
<kiko> ubuntu-laptop, not yet.
<ubuntu-laptop> kiko ok ty
<ubotu> New bug: #141054 in launchpad ""UserPreferences in the upper right corner" still referenced" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141054
<seb128> carlos: could you look at bug #73808? intltool-update is called during the build
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 73808 in pessulus "No translation template available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/73808
<seb128> carlos: in fact looks like that's ok, don't bother
<ubotu> New bug: #141057 in launchpad "Move Legal items from /legal to help.lp.net" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141057
<ajmitch> hi kiko 
<lifeless> ddaa: ?
<ddaa> lifeless: > Hello, Does anyone know if you can find out how many checkouts a launchpad project gets?
<lifeless> lightweight or heavy?
<kiko> hey ajmitch 
<lifeless> for heavy they are indistinguishable from branches
<ddaa> lifeless: I do not think the distinction matters to the user
<kiko> ajmitch, who would be interested in updating pylint for gutsy?
<lifeless> in terms of what the sm sees
<ddaa> lifeless: lightweight, heavy, branch, they are all checkouts as far as counting is concerned IMO
<lifeless> oh
<lifeless> uhm, you can count tarball-generation occurences; that will give you a lower bound
<ajmitch> kiko: to 0.13.2?
<lifeless> but really, just count the different ips accessing the .bzr daa
<ajmitch> kiko: it'd just require a sync, but also a freeze exception
<lifeless> *data*
<ddaa> lifeless: thought of this, but I think we need to better capture the user's intent
<lifeless> ddaa: you just told me you don't care about intent for counting
<ddaa> I did not say that. I say that the way in which the checkout was obtained does not matter.
<lifeless> your definition of checkout is so broad that 99.9% of all operations are included
<ddaa> updating an existing branch does not count
<ddaa> getting the log does not count
<ddaa> running "bzr vis" does not count
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> counting distinct ips will give you a good estimate
<ajmitch> kiko: anything in particular that you want from the new version?
<ddaa> Would it be possible to have a smart server command that says "I am running this sort of bzr command".
<lifeless> My knee jerk reaction is no
<ddaa> So it would count the number of discrete "bzr branch" and "bzr checkout" commands that were run for this branch.
<lifeless> I'd need to think carefully about why I have that reaction.
<ddaa> and not be biased by dynamic ips or masquerading
* ddaa is not sure what's the right technical term for what he means by "masquerading"
<lifeless> nat
<ddaa> right, NAT
<kiko> ajmitch, just that the version we currently have in gutsy is pretty old, and almost obsolete
<ddaa> lifeless: just think about it
<lifeless> thinking about it will get nothing done
<ajmitch> kiko: so, "doesn't work well" is probably a good reason, I'll see if I can convince those who decide
<lifeless> if you need to answer this question, it neds to be tracked somewere
<kiko> ajmitch, it doesn't work well for us at least. :)
<ajmitch> right :)
<ddaa> lifeless: I do not really need to answer this question. It's an interesting problem and I want some bzr folks to think about how to best do it.
<ubotu> New bug: #141062 in launchpad "Please relocate /faq and /feedback to the wiki" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141062
<tck> is there a new launchpad version due out today ?
<kiko> tck, we're late. see launchpad-users. we've had some trouble testing and will probably roll out early friday
<tck> coolio
<blueyed> Hi. According to point 1 of the PPAQuickStart it does not appear to be possible to upload an updated package of linux-restricted-modules to me PPA, or is it?
<blueyed> s/possible/allowed/
<blueyed> s/me/my/ - sorry
<stdin> blueyed: no, I don't think that would be allowed if any part isn't licensed under one of the listed OSI licenses, unless you strip those parts out
<blueyed> ok. OTOH it says "Please do not publish packages in your PPA which are not redistributable (the basic requirement for packages in Ubuntu)."
<blueyed> I wanted to provide l-r-m with the new nvidia drivers for others to test.
<blueyed> But I think it (should) get included anyway.
<stdin> It's a bit of a mucky area, I should think the PPAs have tighter rules than the ubuntu repos
<LaserJock> wow, we've got a nice pendulum swing there :-)
<LaserJock> from "OSI licenses" to "anything redistributable"
<stdin> well, if it's under an OSI license then it has to be redistributable I guess
<LaserJock> yeah, but the original requirement was "open source"
<LaserJock> and redistributable is not open source
<ubotu> New bug: #141078 in launchpad "Please update the help.lp.net wiki to use the latest theme" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141078
<stdin> yeah, that's true
<LaserJock> kiko: did Revell do the PPA license requirements?
<kiko> LaserJock, license requirements?
<LaserJock> kiko: for PPAs
<kiko> LaserJock, I don't know what you're talking about. oh. are you talking about the terms of use?
<LaserJock> yes, I guess so
<kiko> LaserJock, statik did them. they are preliminary
<LaserJock> ah, I see it's a bit inconsistent
<LaserJock> there's the TOS
<LaserJock> and then PPAQuickStart
<LaserJock> which has 2 different requirements
<kiko> LaserJock, the TOS is authoritative.
<LaserJock> ok, then I imgaine there's quite a few people violating the TOS ;-)
<LaserJock> I'll let you guys figure it out
<LaserJock> blueyed: as the TOS is right now you can't do l-r-m
<LaserJock> as far as I can tell
* ajmitch shouldn't be violating the TOS too badly with his f-spot & samba uploads :)
<ajmitch> it's been great to be able to put up packages for testing though
<LaserJock> CC licenses aren't on the OSI approved list
<ajmitch> so no artwork/doc packages?
<LaserJock> right
<ajmitch> ouch
<LaserJock> so the doc team have been violationg TOS ;-)
<ajmitch> I think that'll need clarified asap
<blueyed> I think so, too. For now, I'll keep the l-r-m package to myself.
<LaserJock> kiko: where's the best place for this? launchpad-users or a bug report?
<kiko> LaserJock, the former, I think
<ubotu> New bug: #141086 in launchpad "Changed status in package translation stats is inaccurate" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141086
<LaserJock> alrighty, email sent to launchpad-users
<LaserJock> it'll be nice to get that cleared up as I know Doc Team people are unintentionally violating the TOS :(
<ubotu> New bug: #141093 in malone "Bug comment's permalink page should link to bug" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141093
<Rinchen> LaserJock, I'm going to push to use this  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components
<Rinchen> I have to think more though to see if it will work.
* ajmitch looks at it
<Rinchen> uh duh...  wrong page.
<Rinchen> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing
<ajmitch> so would we be allowed to upload to restricted/multiverse components for PPAs?
<kiko> ajmitch, it's a good question. we allow it for Ubuntu itself, but..
<Rinchen> yeah, what kiko said.
<Rinchen> I'll see what I can do.  I'm off next week (mental health holiday) so it might be two weeks before I resolve this.   
<Rinchen> LaserJock, ^^
<LaserJock> k
<LaserJock> just as long as you guys don't sue us for some minor TOS breakage ;-)
<ajmitch> I'm sure they'd only close your launchpad account :)
<gnomefreak> ajmitch: everything we do depends on our LP account
<ajmitch> gnomefreak: I know that
<LaserJock> that'd be lovely
<LaserJock> no more work!
<ajmitch> I use LP as well :)
<gnomefreak> i would like to move some of my bzr to PPA though 
* gnomefreak wonders why no non-free apps if LP is mostly non-free
<ajmitch> because they're not distributing LP
<ajmitch> but stuff in PPA is available for download
<gnomefreak> good point
<gnomefreak> LaserJock: it was you that started the p.u.c thread? if so there is a point for members/motu/ect.. to have p.u.c address so we can pont non-free to it :)
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure that "think of all the closed-source crack we can put up" is a good argument ;-)
<ajmitch> I'd say it's a very good argument for not allowing it :)
<ajmitch> if you want to distribute w32codecs, do it on your own hosting, not on launchpad or other canonical-sponsored services
#launchpad 2007-09-20
<Rinchen> at the moment I do not see the argument to keep PPA items different from Ubuntu's requirements.  
<Rinchen> so I'll pursue it
* Rinchen doesn't know everything though.
<LaserJock> Rinchen: well, the problem is that Ubuntu's requirements aren't very clear
<LaserJock> we rely on the archive admins to have the final say on what goes in
<Rinchen> For that I'd forward you to  dholbach 
<LaserJock> I'm just saying that basing it on Ubuntu is a slippery slop
<LaserJock> +e
<Rinchen> I didn't write the original ppa tos so I need to understand why it was done the way it was.  I contributed to it though so some of the language is mine...just not the licensing part.
<LaserJock> because then the question is "what does Ubuntu let in?" "why doesn't Ubuntu let in X?" etc. then it becomes an Ubuntu problem
<Rinchen> and not a LP problem :-)   
<Rinchen> anyway, I'll figure it out.
<LaserJock> yeah
<Rinchen> I can promise you it'll be consistent amongst the docs.
<Rinchen> and in fact this was a good call from a beta test period
<LaserJock> that'd be nice :-)
<LaserJock> the Creative Commons license (CC-By-SA normally) is the only one I saw right off that wasn't in the OSI list
<stdin> hmm, thinking about it, wouldn't putting "FireFox" in your PPA not be allowed either, as if you patch it then you can't call it "FireFox" anymore 
<LaserJock> so maybe it can be OSI+
<LaserJock> you'd probably want to do iceweasel or something
<stdin> I guess I'm just expressing my confusion over licences in general :p
<LaserJock> licenses suck
<LaserJock> no doubt about it
<Rinchen> yeah
<Rinchen> you can blame me for all the stuff going forward   https://help.launchpad.net/Legal
<LaserJock> Rinchen: I assume you're going to lock the Legal/TOS pages on the wiki?
<Rinchen> you'll note there are some minor formatting differences  and word replacements in the PPA  portion.
<Rinchen> they are locked
<Rinchen> only myself and mrevell can edit them
<Rinchen> I'm moving the document items out of LP ...so, legal, faq, feedback, ppa tos, etc.
<LaserJock> k, cool
<Rinchen> I find it offensive that I have to do a code change in order to update FAQs.
<Rinchen> anyway, it's work in progress.
<Rinchen> Legal will redirected this release, the others I hope for next release.
<dresman> hello all
<kiko-afk> ajmitch, bug 141103 fwiw. :)
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141103 in kubuntu-meta "KDE doesn't display text any more" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141103
<kiko-afk> err
<kiko-afk> ajmitch, bug 141013.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141013 in pylint "Gutsy should use a new pylint package" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141013
<kiko-afk> yay
<ajmitch> yeah, I saw it
<ajmitch> it requires the upgrade of at least 2 other packages
<ajmitch> python-logilab-{common,astng}
<ajmitch> maybe python-constraint
<mrevell> hi all
<Hobbsee> good morning mrevell 
<mrevell> hey Hobbsee
<carlos> morning
<TomaszD> carlos, hi. You said that in gutsy it takes a day for a .po import, however I'm afraid it's again going to be six days or more, can't approved -> imported be sped up manually somehow? I'm talking about this https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/gnome-app-install/+imports?field.filter_status=APPROVED&field.filter_extension=all
<carlos> I cannot change the import order, I can change from Needs review to Approved though
<carlos> so you will need to wait
<carlos> sorry about that
<TomaszD> alright, thanks, I just need to know that
<TomaszD> :] 
<ubotu> New bug: #141177 in launchpad "PPA should send a mail upon successful build" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141177
<mrevell> hey Hobbsee, still around?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: yeah
<ubotu> New bug: #141199 in malone "[RFE]  Malone should email, then close bugs for inactivity" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141199
<Fujitsu>  /win 15
<Fujitsu> Oops.
<ubotu> New bug: #141202 in malone "[RFE]  Email inactive bugs a month after a release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141202
<Fujitsu> z,cb 15
<Fujitsu> Bah.
<maruscia> hi
<maruscia> I've been experiencing many Timeout Errors when translating strings from gutsy's library package libadept from english to italian
<maruscia> in Rosetta on edge.launchpad.net
<ubotu> New bug: #141215 in malone "Viewing a bug in the wrong context should allow user to jump to one of the right contexts" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141215
<carlos> maruscia: do you have OOPs numbers?
<maruscia> sure
<maruscia> last one: OOPS-628EA27
<ignas> whom should i write an email to if i want my translation template file to get reviewed faster?
* Fujitsu points carlos at ignas, and vice versa.
<carlos> maruscia: ok, let me check...
<maruscia> take your time :)
<carlos> ignas: danilos is doing those reviews today
<ignas> carlos: i see, thank you
<danilos> carlos: I am not, I was doing them yesterday :)
<ignas> carlos: maybe you could point me to some document that explains why all the new templates need to be reviewed?
<ignas> danilos: you missed mine then ;)
<carlos> oh, right!
<carlos> today is Thursday...
<danilos> ignas: basically, they need to be reviewed because we have not project registration approvals, and people make many mistakes
<carlos> ignas: so tomorrow is my turn to do it
<danilos> s/not/no/
<ignas> danilos: what kinds of mistakes?
<ignas> oh, you mean anyone can upload a pot even if he is not the owner of the project?
<danilos> ignas: for instance, we have gotten like 20-30 different wordpress registrations where people only wanted to use launchpad to translate wordpress to a single language, with existing wordpress project there already
<ignas> hmm, but if i am uploading a pot file to a project that is in there for quite a lot of time ...
<danilos> ignas: no, as an owner of a project, you can also upload multiple templates with the wrong "path" (eg. once you upload 'template.pot', the other time 'messages.pot': how can we tell if these are the same?)
<danilos> ignas: hum, then it should be auto-approved after a few hours if it was already being translated
<ignas> and there is no way to delete the wrong pot?
<ignas> danilos: we are going from monolith codebase to one composed of plugins, so all the plugins are getting their own pot files
<danilos> ignas: you can hide a potemplate, or delete a pot in the import queue, yes
<ignas> so pot files don't seem so central to our project as they come and go ...
<ignas> and even if i will upload the wrong pot - if i can delete it later, why does it need approval?
<danilos> ignas: well, that's something we've discussed earlier, but the problem is that we don't have project approval, so we've delayed the approval to template imports
<ignas> i see
<danilos> ignas: we have considered marking projects as 'approved' once we approve a single template, but we have not yet done that
<ignas> oh
<ignas> that would be nice
<carlos_> sorry, my wireless driver died
<ignas> carlos: one more question - what is the ration of wrong vs right templates?
<ignas> i mean wouldn't it be easier to delete the wrong templates every 2-3 days instead of approving all the right ones every 2-3 days
<carlos> ignas: I didn't see the template you are interested on
<ignas> lyceum.pot Schooltool Series: development
<carlos> ignas: that's what we plan to do, although for that, we need to add a way to delete things completely from the system
<ignas> oh
<carlos> ok
<carlos> ignas: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/development/+pots/lyceum
* carlos -> lunch
<carlos> ignas: it will be imported soon
<ignas> thanks
<SteveA> matsubara: hi
<matsubara> SteveA: hello
<Hobbsee> good morning SteveA!
<Hobbsee> morning matsubara 
<SteveA> matsubara: I think the TaggingLaunchpadBugs page is out of date.
<SteveA> matsubara: iirc, structural-navigation was approved
<SteveA> matsubara: would you take a look please?
<SteveA> Hobbsee: good morning!
<matsubara> Hobbsee: hello!
<SteveA> I've just noticed that your nick sounds very australian
<kiko> morning!
<Hobbsee> SteveA: who's sorry?
<Hobbsee> hiya kiko!
<salgado> me
<SteveA> Hobbsee: "hobbsee", like "poolie", another australian launchpad person
<cprov> me
<SteveA> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting.  For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be co-ordinating about Launchpad development.
<matsubara> SteveA: sure, I usually leave the proposer to update it. I'll read the last meeting notes and update accordingly
<SteveA> who is here today?
<mrevell> me
<jsk> me
<SteveA> thanks matsubara 
<schwuk> me
<bac> me
<sinzui> me
<Hobbsee> SteveA: interesting.  it's completely separate
<intellectronica> me
<statik_> me
<Hobbsee> me!
<barry> me
<BjornT> me
<gmb> me
<kiko> me
<matsubara> me
<ddaa> me
<jtv> me
<allenap> me
<EdwinGrubbs-_> me
<salgado> me
<ddaa> mwhudson is on leave
<schwuk> adeuring will be here shortly
<SteveA> thanks ddaa 
<stub> me
<SteveA>  * <stub> I'm not available
<SteveA>  * <mpt> I won't be here.
<carlos> me
<SteveA> stub: I guess you're here then :-)
<adeuring> me
<stub> SteveA: doh!
<danilos> me
<stub> SteveA: That was last week
<Hobbsee> stub: dont admit that, and hide from this week's meeting.
<flacoste> me
<SteveA> on with the show!
<SteveA> == Agenda ==
<SteveA>  * Roll call
<SteveA>  * Agenda
<SteveA>  * Next meeting
<SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
<SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<SteveA>  * Bug tags
<SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
<Rinchen> me
<SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
<SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mthaddon> me
<SteveA> ----
<SteveA>  * Poll: who has read the "critical situations" policy - SteveA
<SteveA>  (other items)
<SteveA> ----
<SteveA>  * Blockers
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> note the poll that will occur in about 25 minutes :-)  now's your chance to sneak off and read the policy if you haven't done so
<SteveA> next meeting: same time next week.  I won't be here, though.
<SteveA> various people will be unable to attend next week's meeting also
<ddaa> thumper will be on leave next week, but he does not attend the meeting anyway
* Rinchen and mthaddon are on leave
<SteveA> thanks
<stub> Given it is 'week 0', shall we skip?
<SteveA> kiko: what do you think?
<kiko> I will be here; I don't see why we should skip. what is happening next week?
<stub> A meeting aparently
<SteveA> I'll be at a canonical quarterly review meeting
<SteveA> ok, same time next week
<SteveA> maybe shorter, if there's less to arrange
<SteveA> kiko: would you chair the meeting next week?
<kiko> yeah, mpt and I should be able to manage.
<SteveA> great
<SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
<SteveA>  * matsubara to get feedback from team leads about any security concerns in giving them access to the shared staging mailbox (unfinished from last week)
<bigjools> I'm here, sorry for lateness
<SteveA> we did that
<SteveA> last week I think
<SteveA> so, I think the MeetingAgenda page is a bit out of date
<matsubara> SteveA: that's old. 
<SteveA> probably because mpt is on vacation
<SteveA> he normally deals with it
<jamesh> I'm late too :(
<SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<matsubara> SteveA: I'm investigating a couple of OOPS yet. Nothing alarming to report today.
<Rinchen> That's good news. :-)
<SteveA> matsubara: are we getting oopses from edge?
<SteveA> that was an issue from last week
<matsubara> SteveA: yes.
<matsubara> they're synced and oops reports are flowing daily to the list
<SteveA> great
<SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> Hi, 1 for today
<Rinchen> Bug #135730 was merged today and will be delivered in 1.1.9.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 135730 in launchpad "Special background for private bug reports etc should be inside tabs" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135730 - Assigned to Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
<Rinchen> Thanks to matsubara for seeing that one through
<SteveA> that was critical?
<kiko> how is that a critical bug?
<SteveA> I guess it must have been made such
<SteveA> before our new policy
<Hobbsee> clearly marked by whoever didnt read the new policy
<Rinchen> it was influenced from a senior member in our company is what I was told
<SteveA> still doesn't make it critical
<SteveA> just high
<Rinchen> indeed. It was also set prior to the new policy
<SteveA> right
<SteveA> that I can understand
<SteveA> Rinchen: any other critical bugs that should be reviewed to see if they're really critical?
<SteveA> according to the new policy?
<Rinchen> There are no open Critical Bugs at this time. 
<SteveA> great!
<SteveA> thanks Rinchen and matsubara 
<Rinchen> Thanks. 
<SteveA>  * Bug tags
<matsubara> thanks
<SteveA> we have two bug tags that are in the proposed list
<SteveA> 'edge', still with no examples
<SteveA> 'api'
<Rinchen> we can drop edge and API was approved
<mrevell> SteveA: Sorry, I thought edge was rejected.
<SteveA> which I believe was approved last week
<matsubara> sorry, I'm updating the wiki page
<SteveA> I think it's unclear who is responsible for updating bug tag proposals
<SteveA> is it the proposer, or is it me, or is it matsubara?
<kiko> the proposer.
<Rinchen> the proposer.
<kiko> ah, updating post-meeting?
<mrevell> In which case, sorry for not removing it.
<SteveA> ok, let's get that written into the heading "proposing new tags" on that very page
<SteveA> matsubara: would you do that please?
<Rinchen> matsubara, could you please add that since you are there?
<SteveA> seeing as you are editing
<matsubara> SteveA: sure
* Rinchen laughs.
<SteveA> thanks matsubara !
<SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
<mthaddon> App Server Reconfig complete - all production systems now going through the same web front-end, using the same physical application servers and using Apache's load balancer (3 for edge and beta, 6 for lpnet)
<mthaddon> Working on setting up new PQM box and codehosting/codebrowse/importd staging box(es)
<mthaddon> That's it from me
* ..[topic/#launchpad:Rinchen] : https://launchpad.net/ | Next developer meeting: Thu 27 Sep 2007, 1400UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad |Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<SteveA> mthaddon: some questions came up in my weekly bzr-launchpad conf call
<SteveA> about wanting to monitor load and processor use and IO use on servers
<mthaddon> ok
<SteveA> do we collect that information already?  if so, is it graphed somewhere that we can see?
<mthaddon> I believe IS does all of that, but not sure if it's publicly available
<SteveA> don't want it publicly available
<SteveA> that could help miscreants who want to work out how to DOS servers
<SteveA> I do want it available to launchpad developers
<mthaddon> sorry, I mean outside of IS, not publicly
<SteveA> mthaddon: would you find out please, and mail the answer to the launchpad devel list?
<mthaddon> SteveA, will do
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
<stub> There was aparently a DB outage yesterday around 2200UTC. I suspect the usual crash. I'll be testing my chief suspects tomorrow or next week if the Rosetta guys don't mind me possibly crashing the dbs on carbon.
<stub> I need to get a move on with read only launchpad and database replication. I expect to start coding the read only launchpad stuff next week whilst testing replication stuff on asuka and carbon. Probably pgpool-II, even though 'most people don't need synchronous replication' is the common wisdom.
<stub> Just did a db patch review for Tom B. I assume it has been cleared for landing given it is aparently release critical?
<stub> I've got to review the PG setup on the new PQM box for Tom H still.
<stub> Nothing else.
<carlos> stub: will we get carbon back?
<SteveA> stub: sounds great.  I'd like to have a conf call with you and jamesh sometime to talk through the replication strategy.
<kiko> stub, yeah, it was cleared for landing.
<jamesh> okay
<stub> carlos: Yes. If it crashes, it recovers itself immediately. Just kills all the current connections.
<carlos> or even better, when will 1.1.9 be released? once that's done, we don't depend so much on carbon
<carlos> oh, so we will still have the db available
<carlos> but maybe a bit unstable?
<carlos> that's fine
<SteveA> mthaddon: would you be able to be on this call too?
<danilos> stub: we want to have carbon for testing near the end of the 1.1.10 cycle
<mthaddon> SteveA, which call is that?
<danilos> stub: other than that, we can live without it being stable
<stub> SteveA: I'm in a crappy timezone for both you *and* tom until next week.
<mthaddon> SteveA, sorry, saw the comment - yes
<SteveA> stub, jamesh, mthaddon: I propose a meeting early october about this
<SteveA> like, 1st week of october
<mthaddon> sounds good to me
<stub> SteveA: But we have already discussed this before, haven't we?
<SteveA> blame my faulty recollection of the details...
<statik_> stevea, mind if i join too?
<SteveA> unless there's some minispecs or other docs I can look up that describes the plan
<SteveA> statik_: sure
<SteveA> statik_: would you organise the meeting?  you're good with timezones :-)  I propose monday oct 1
<stub> SteveA: We determined what 'read only launchpad' meant (and possibly specced), and deferred the replication decisions until I can test different things.
<SteveA> cool.  so let's catch up on oct 1
<SteveA> you'll have had a chance to do some experimentation by then too
<statik_> will do
<SteveA> stub: also, I was talking with elmo about new DB hardware
<SteveA> and newer hardware in general
<SteveA> or just how best to use existing hardware
<SteveA> thanks stub !
<SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
<Rinchen> Does anyone (besides matusbara and mpt) have any RT requests that need attention? If you are blocked on any, please speak now. mthaddon and elmo, matsubara is blocked on two RTs which are assigned to you. I'll post them in at the end of the meeting.
<mthaddon> Rinchen, thx
<Rinchen> going once
<SteveA> Rinchen: tim needs to arrange access to a box with a bzr 0.9 on it
<SteveA> he submitted an rt request about that, but there's a problem
<SteveA> we don't have a backport of bzr 0.9 to dapper just yet
<SteveA> (it's trickier than it sounds)
<stub> Does it have to be the 0.9 package, or can he just install it in his PYTHONPATH
<stub> ?
<SteveA> although... perhaps tim could install it in his home dir
<SteveA> stub: right
<SteveA> and we want to stop staging temporarily on asuka
<Rinchen> SteveA, indeed. I saw the RT submitted but haven't looked up the number.  Tim also requested it by tomorrow which doesn't give IS any lead time.
<SteveA> and have tim test various operations, while looking at the IO load
<stub> Stop staging, or stop staging db updates?
<SteveA> both
<SteveA> Rinchen: given the insight from stub, let's get tim asuka access
<SteveA> and belay getting bzr packaged
<SteveA> ('miscreant'... 'belay'... I guess I'm too late for talk like a pirate day)
<Rinchen> arrg, I gotcha back Captain!
<Rinchen> Back to you SteveA 
<SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
<mrevell> MOTU members have contacted both matsubara and me to suggest that the fix to bug 134220 doesn't meet their needs.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134220 in malone "Bug page has no information about current package version" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134220 - Assigned to Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
<mrevell> The bug concerns the removal of the package information panel from the
<mrevell> left-hand of the page.
<mrevell> The bug fix presents the package version
<mrevell> information for each context when that context is expanded.
<kiko> mrevell, I'll be happy to reconsider in a month's time.
<mrevell> Hobbsee reports that the MOTU would be particularly keen to see the
<mrevell> return of the panel as it was previously, as it was an easy way to see version, matainer and uploader information.
<kiko> for now, let's leave it at this.
<mrevell> kiko: Thanks.
<SteveA> thanks mrevell 
<SteveA>  * Poll: who has read the "critical situations" policy - SteveA
<Rinchen> me
<kiko> I have
<intellectronica> me
<SteveA> please say either "I read it.  It was very interesting.  Thrilling even."  or "I didn't read it yet"
<gmb> me
<matsubara> me
<bac> me
<BjornT> me
<jtv> I read it yadda yadda yadda
<jsk> I read it.
<Rinchen> "I read it.  It was very interesting.  Thrilling ev
<matsubara> I read it
<statik_> thrilling even
<SteveA> or "me" "not me" if you prefer"
<stub> me
<gmb> I read it.
<bigjools> I read it
<ddaa> me
<jamesh> me
<EdwinGrubbs> me
<mrevell> I read it.
<salgado> I read it
<flacoste> I read it.  It was very interesting.  Thrilling even.
<barry> i read it
<cprov> I read it
<carlos> I read it
<schwuk> I read it
<adeuring> me
<danilos> I read it
<sinzui> me
<mthaddon> I read it
<allenap> I read it
<SteveA> great, looks like everyone read it
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA>  * Blockers
<SteveA> SC: not blocked
<Rinchen> Release Team: BLOCKED: 1) Stevea to please reply to bug 88265, 2) mthaddon: RT #28907 (staging outgoing bugmail setup), 3) elmo: RT #28415 (staging incoming email setup)
<ubotu> Bug 88265 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/88265 is private
<BjornT> Bugs: not blocked
<flacoste> Foundations: not blocked
<jtv> Translations: not blocked
<cprov> Soyuz Team: not blocked
<SteveA> flacoste: welcome back!  you're on the ball today.
<statik_> collaborative commerce: not blocked
<siretart> cprov: are PPA builds in status "Dependency Wait" automatically requeued?
<ddaa> Code: not blocked
<schwuk> HWDB: not blocked, apart from adeuring's reduced typing ability
<Rinchen> ?
<cprov> siretart: no, you have to manually 'retry' them.
<adeuring> right elbow broken or perhaps not broken...
<schwuk> Rinchen: it was kiko's fault
<gmb> Schrodinger's elbow
<Rinchen> eews, sorry to hear that.
<cprov> siretart: follow https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/138464 for status updates 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 138464 in soyuz "MANUALDEPWAIT builds in PPAs are not automatically retried" [Medium,Confirmed]   - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
<adeuring> well, i hope you don't mean something like the cat....
<mrevell> gmb: Presumably looking at it with sort out the ambiguity
<mrevell> s/with/would
<gmb> mrevell: Exactly.
<SteveA> thanks for the blocked items, team
<SteveA> we have a few more minutes.  Anything from Rinchen and kiko about our current place in the dev cycle?
<carlos> would be interested to know the final date for 1.1.9 release...
<carlos> if possible
<Rinchen> kiko and I are working on a Friday release.
<carlos> tomorrow?
<Rinchen> There are some items to sort out though before we can attempt it
<Rinchen> Tomorrow.
<danilos> Rinchen: that sounds scary
<carlos> I thought we don't want Friday releases due to the weekend right after it...
<kiko> carlos, danilos: next week is impractical.
<carlos> ok
<mthaddon> Rinchen, what do you mean by Friday (typically we do it late night my time early stub's time, but on a Friday, that would be Saturday stub's time)
<barry> Rinchen: don't release after friday at 3pm of course :)
<danilos> barry: we are in too many timezones to be able to avoid that, I think :)
<carlos> barry: 3pm which time zone? :-)
<Hobbsee> carlos: weekends are a thing of the past.  they no longer exist.
<carlos> danilos: you won!
<barry> Schrodinger's timezone
<Hobbsee> carlos: cancelled due to unpopularity.
<carlos> Hobbsee: indeed...
<Rinchen> We'll continue plotting and scheming today and will let you all know what we can work out.
<carlos> Rinchen: ok, thanks
<Rinchen> Please remember to submit your pre-release QA reports.
<jtv> When are they due?
<Rinchen> As soon as possible. :-)  
<flacoste> jtv: two days ago?
<flacoste> jtv: that was supposed to be a ;-)
<jtv> flacoste: like the branches we're testing?
<flacoste> jtv: exactly!
<Rinchen> Interim reports are ok. It's a little extra work for matsubara but we'll be able to get a head start on reviewing the notes.
<Rinchen> matsubara, can you cut a draft for kiko and I today please with what you have currently?
<matsubara> Rinchen: yes
<Rinchen> Great, thanks.  SteveA back to you
<SteveA> ok, thanks
<SteveA> that
<SteveA> s all folks
<SteveA> MEETING ENDS
<mrevell> thanks all
<_nand_> hi!
<_nand_> Since they are quite a few developpers here
<_nand_> I wanted to get some feedback on something :)
<_nand_> I have been thinking on a idea around Dell's ideastorm model idea
<_nand_> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/better-community-wishes-assessment
<_nand_> I strongly feel that it could be very usefull
<_nand_> What do you think?
<intellectronica> _nand_: i think i read your email about this to the list and wanted to respond but didn't find the time yet
<Rinchen> _nand_, have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IdeaPool ?
<intellectronica> basically, i think it's a good idea, and there are some plans already to do something like this for bugs (at least)
<intellectronica> it will take a while, though, and until then i think the best recommendation is adding a comment like "+1" or "me too" or something like this when you find something already reported that affects you too
<_nand_> Rinchen: yes, but the static nature of it make it not too good
<_nand_> and it is not linked to the launchpad framework
<_nand_> how does it look like concerning the implementation?
<Rinchen> _nand_, if that was for me, I don't have any opinion at the moment. Sorry. 
<_nand_> ok!
<jsk> _nand_: thanks for getting in touch. do you have any thoughts about how this might link in with blueprint? For instance, there is a tentative blueprint called "vote-for-spec", which would allow users to vote for the blueprints they want to see implemented. (see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/blueprint/+spec/vote-for-spec)
<_nand_> hmm... I have started with only wishes in mind, but in fact yes, this could be generalized to bugs, wishes and blueprints
<_nand_> while blueprint are more for power users... 
<_nand_> i mean, not normal users
<_nand_> who just want to vote for simple ideas and wishes
<_nand_> jsk: i can't read the spec :/
<jsk> _nand_: Your feedback about Blueprint is useful. Do you think blueprints are too heavyweight for ordinary users?
<_nand_> jsk: exactly
<jsk> _nand_: (btw, That spec link I posted is only an outline - I don't think there's a wiki page for it yet.)
<_nand_> jsk: as an ordinary user, it is just too much and cumbersome to follow the format of a blueprint
<proppy> Hi
<_nand_> jsk: lol sorry, i was blindly clicking on the link :)
<jsk> _nand_: :)
<proppy> how do I delete things from a ppa ?
<_nand_> jsk: and it is too much too read
<_nand_> jsk: ideas should be short and quick to read, understand and agree
<_nand_> agree/disagree
<stdin> proppy: you can't (yet)
<_nand_> so that a large part of the user base, who don't have much time, could interact with launchpad
<_nand_> I strongly believe it would help to evaluate efficiently and quantitavely the wishes of a large portion of the user base
<_nand_> just look at the success of Ideastorm. A success at gathering so much input, and a success at responding quickly at user input
<jsk> _nand_: Personally I feel the same way, that raising and voting for ideas should be made as simple as possible. Dell's Ideastorm was simple enough even for first-time visitors to participate.
<_nand_> jsk: exactly
<_nand_> jsk: thinking of it, we can consider wishes as pre-blueprints or lightweight blueprints... once it gained a lot a support, the idea could be extented into a full blueprint
<jsk> _nand_: a different (but related) example was the UK government's petition website: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/
<_nand_> a blueprint being mainly for developper audience;;;
<jsk> _nand_: I don't know if you saw that, but it became very popular very quickly.
<_nand_> jsk: i was not aware of it
<_nand_> but then that's another good example :)
<_nand_> Simple and easy input
<_nand_> Simple way to interact and promote/demote others's idea
<_nand_> and that's it!
<_nand_> (and a bit of publicity too :) )
<_nand_> jsk: i would really like to implementing/help implementing this, but I don't know if this is planned somehow (according to intellectronica) and it doesn't *seem* launchpad dev is so open (but i might be wrong)
<intellectronica> _nand_: your help it getting solid ideas on how to do this is already great. don't worry, it wont be long before you have something like this (at least for bugs)
<_nand_> intellectronica: thanks, i will look forward to it :)
<jsk> _nand_: Just looking through your wiki page, and it mentions having a separate .org domain.  Do you think it would be better or worse to integrate such a website into the current launchpad framework (perhaps as a subsite?).
<_nand_> jsk: well, i was thinking the new set of pages as a subsite, like another viewer to the same data (wishes), and the new set of pages should be more focused on easiness for simples users
<jsk> _nand_: Perhaps another way of looking at this: Considering that Launchpad is used by thousands of products (growing all the time), do you have any thoughts on how ideas could be linked with products?
<_nand_> and a dot org domain should redirect to this subsite, even it is part of launchpad
<_nand_> jsk: I was thinking, to keep idea submission simple, to require only title and description
<jsk> _nand_: For instance, it might be easier to let users raise an idea (without requiring them to specify a project), but then let others link the idea with individual projects later.
<_nand_> no package name, no project
<_nand_> jsk: we are on the same wavelength :)
<jsk> _nand_: Ok. Personally I agree with you here.
<_nand_> having a high degree of freedom so that power users can help by linking, adding comment, marking wishes as duplicate or impossible or already implemented
<_nand_> reducing the much hated triage :)
<jsk> :).
<_nand_> then i was thinking about "official comment", but this need to be discussed
<_nand_> taking example on ideastorm experience
<_nand_> upstream was giving feedback through the regular flow of comments
<_nand_> and it was easily lost in the flow
<_nand_> resulting in confused users
<_nand_> same things here for big bugs reports
<_nand_> so i was thinking of an area on top summarizing the status, and comments of upstream
<_nand_> but how to restrict access, that's the pb.
<jsk> _nand_: What do you think about ideas pages for individual projects? I can imagine a root "ideas.launchpad.net" or "wishes.launchpad.net", that shows all the ideas (regardless of project). Furthermore, filtered views at ideas.launchpad.net/<project>.
<ubotu> New bug: #141275 in launchpad "Staging Website Error 503/403" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141275
<_nand_> jsk: well, it would require a simple user to know what package affects its idea... And we can't expect that at all :p
<_nand_> But upstream projects could have a link to this, if it is successfull and they don't have a efficient wishes submission system
<jsk> _nand_: I see what you mean. I was imagining that "ideas.launchpad.net" could show all the ideas. Power users could navigate to per-project ideas sites.
<_nand_> Yes! But i also believe (in a marketing point of view) that a dot org domain redirecting to ideas.launchpad.net with strong words is *much* better
<_nand_> let's compare
<_nand_> in a simple user point of view
<_nand_> ideas.launchpad.net : what the h
<_nand_> ** is launchpad about?
<_nand_> and that's not a www website, it does not sound cool
<jsk> actually, I get asked that all the time. :)
<_nand_> but something like www.ubuntu-ideas.com does talk much more!
<_nand_> or ubuntustorming
<_nand_> well, a name with strong meaning :)
<_nand_> ideastorm was a very good one, with the mix of idea and brainstorming :)
<jsk> in a way, it's a shame the domain name system was designed back-to-front. :)
<_nand_> :)
<jsk> _nand_: so, if I understand you correctly, your ".org" site would be Ubuntu specific (such as "www.ubuntu-ideas.org"), and could alias onto a launchpad site (such as "ideas.launchpad.net/ubuntu"), but the user would not need to be aware of it.
<_nand_> exactly
<jsk> _nand_: then this leaves open the possibility of ideas for other projects.
<_nand_> jsk: what do you mean?
<jsk> and all ideas appearing at "ideas.launchpad.net". That could be quite open-ended!
<jsk> Well, let's say that project X is hosted at launchpad.net/projectx.
<jsk> Hypothetically, let's imagine that project X is a free software project not related to Ubuntu.
<jsk> Then a user (who isn't a developer) comes along and has an idea about project X. Is there a simple way for them to raise the idea?
<jsk> I agree, it might be too much to expect for someone to know to visit launchpad.net/projectx.
<jsk> So providing a simple point-of-entry for all ideas (in any project in LP) might be worthwhile.
<_nand_> If a user want to post something on ubuntu, it will go to ubuntu-ideas.org. If it want to post something on project X, it will be go to google
<_nand_> find the project homepage
<_nand_> and here
<_nand_> the project homepage should have a link to launchpad.net/projectX
<_nand_> Each project link to his launchpad page, and big project could link via a dot org domain
<_nand_> yes
<_nand_> This will benefit Ubuntu a lot, but also a lot of opensource project which does not have a way to assess they user base demand
<_nand_> and i strongly believe this should be a very high priority
<_nand_> I was thinking also of a link in the "Help" menu of application
<_nand_> When a simple user want to post a wish, he goes to forum, because "Report a bug" in the "Help" menu does not say he can report a wish :)
<jsk> _nand_: I personally feel that the idea is solid. I've heard of other people asking for the same thing before. It seems like a "Catch-22" situation - in order to promote the idea for an ideas website, you need an ideas website to do it.
<jsk> :)
<_nand_> so there should be "Report a bug" and "Post a wish"
<_nand_> lol ^^
<_nand_> If i can help full-time on this, i'm looking for a six months internship to finish my studies, and i'd be very glad to help :) 
<_nand_> jsk: thanks for the brainstorming, this gave a few new ideas, i will complete the blueprint :)
<jsk> _nand_: It's good of you to offer. While I'm not involved in that area - it's certainly worth taking a look at http://www.ubuntu.com/employment.
<jsk> _nand_: On that page you can find contact details.
<_nand_> jsk: thanks and already done :) Waiting for an answer right now...
* _nand_ cross his fingers
<jsk> _nand_: Thanks again - I appreciate that you've raised these ideas here. I'll be watching your spec :)
* jsk was impressed with http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/72770/bMake_A_Wireless_Dellb
<_nand_> jsk: ok see ya! getting late here...
<_nand_> bye!
<jsk> _nand_: cheers!
<LaserJock> ok, now what is the difference between "Triaged" and "Confirmed" ?
<intellectronica> LaserJock: `Confirmed` means the bug can be reproduced or someone confirms that the bug really exists as reported
<LaserJock> and then "Triaged" is it's ready to go
<intellectronica> LaserJock: `Triaged` means the development team (or triaging team on bigger projects that have such a team) assigned a milestone, importance, etc'...
<ubotu> New bug: #141302 in soyuz "`change-override -S` doesn't cope with inherited binaries" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141302
<mayeco> if I change the registrar in a branch why I get this error "Launchpad could not mirror this branch 5 seconds ago.  The error was: Not a branch:"
<mayeco> Launchpad could not mirror this branch 4 minutes ago.  The error was: Not a branch:
<mayeco> what is that
<LarstiQ> mayeco: it doesn't recognise the given location as a branch
<mayeco> mmmm why?
<mayeco> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch
<mayeco> see that
<mayeco> I dont know what I did worng
<mayeco> I create a branch for the website
<mayeco> and then I change the registrant to the ubuntu loco team
<mayeco> and I get that error
<mayeco> you know what happend LarstiQ
<LarstiQ> mayeco: it's trying to mirror from sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mayeco/ubuntu-pa-website/branch, but if you switched the registrant, that location no longer exists aiui
<LarstiQ> mayeco: can you still set what location it should mirror from?
<mayeco> no that is not in ~mayeco/
<mayeco> is in ~ubuntu-pty
<mayeco> is in ~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch
<mayeco> if I change the registrant why that still seach in ~mayeco?
<LarstiQ> mayeco: to that, I don't know the answer, but for a workaround I'd try setting it to ~ubuntu-pty by hand
* LarstiQ has a look at filed bugs
<mayeco> ok thanks
<LarstiQ> mayeco: can you confirm you can access sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch ?
<mayeco> I can see this -> sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch
<mayeco> is that right?
<LarstiQ> mayeco: what do you mean with 'see'? Can you bzr log it?
<mayeco> LarstiQ: bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch
<mayeco> i cant
<LarstiQ> so what did 'see' mean? Using an sftp client to check if the dir exists?
<mayeco> yes
<mayeco> with konqueror
<LarstiQ> mayeco: are there any files in there? Specifically, .bzr/* ?
<mayeco> sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch is empty
<mayeco> nothing...
<LarstiQ> mayeco: how did you create it in the first place?
<mayeco> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ -> Register branch
<mayeco> I have to make more things?
<LarstiQ> ah hmm
<LarstiQ> mayeco: I usually just directly push a branch, launchpad will pick it up anyway
<LarstiQ> so, 'bzr push sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/trunk' from an existing branch of the website for example
<mayeco> done
<mayeco> now there are .bzr files
<mayeco> here sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch/
<mayeco> hey
<LarstiQ> ok, now we wait
<mayeco> the error is gone
<LarstiQ> mayeco: yes, now it _actually_ has a branch there :)
<mayeco> thank you!
<mayeco> sorry i'm a noob
<mayeco> LarstiQ: thank your for help!
<LarstiQ> np
<LarstiQ> mayeco: just one parting tip then, the name 'branch' for a branch isn't very descriptive
<mayeco> is becouse I think that will be only that
<mayeco> can I change it now?
<LarstiQ> mayeco: why not call it 'main' then?
<LarstiQ> mayeco: sure
<ubotu> New bug: #141317 in launchpad "Add pylint as a make target" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141317
<mayeco> done!
<mayeco> thanks
<LarstiQ> mayeco: next step, commit some stuff and push it :)
<mayeco> yeah
<mayeco> I'll do it
<mayeco> but first we want to create the new website
<redondo> hello everybody
<redondo> who can i speak to for a question about a launchpad account?
<Rinchen> redondo, ask away otherwise you can use Answers to file a question about it
<redondo> i was trying to get a launchpad account
<redondo> but it tells me that somebody else has already got an account with my email address
<redondo> how can this be possible?
<lifeless> we may have a record with your email in it because it was part of a bug we imported from another system, when the users of that system migrated, or similarly for packaging details from e.g. debian
<lifeless> this isn't really an account, noone else 'has' it or can use it. You can claim it though, at which point it becomes your account and becomes active
<redondo> so shall i reset that address?
<lifeless> yup
<redondo> ok thanks
<redondo> bye bye
<lifeless> ciao
<redondo> ciao :-)
<ubotu> New bug: #141360 in launchpad "Include a link from the personal tab to the launchpad domain" [Wishlist,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141360
<flacoste> mthaddon: ping
#launchpad 2007-09-21
<ubotu> New bug: #141412 in launchpad "bzr+ssh: branches cannot be attached to bugs" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141412
<mthaddon> Launchpad going offline in 15 mins for 1 hour for upgrade
<carlos> morning
<siretart> any soyuz god around? soyuz is rejecting my uploads to ubutnu containing an orig.tar.gz when that file is already in an ppa
<siretart> this is rather critical
<BjornT> siretart: bigjools should be around soon, but you might have to wait for cprov (who should come online in a few hours)
<siretart> ok
<siretart> thanks
<BjornT> bigjools: < siretart> any soyuz god around? soyuz is rejecting my uploads to ubutnu containing an orig.tar.gz when that file is already in an ppa
<BjornT> bigjools: < siretart> this is rather critical
<siretart> hi bigjools 
<bigjools> what a nice welcome to the morning :)
<bigjools> I'll have a look
<siretart> bigjools: I can forward you the reject message if you want - the package was 'live-initramfs' to gutsy
<bigjools> siretart: yes please
<bigjools> julian@canonical.com
<siretart> done
<bigjools> thx
<siretart> it says that the 'orig.tar.gz' cannot be found, which is a lie, because me dput .upload file confirms that it has been uploaded
<bigjools> siretart: what makes you think it's because of the PPA?
<siretart> bigjools: this is a specially crafted fakesync, which I'm actually not supposed to do, because ubuntu-archive has hand-crafted scripts for this
<siretart> bigjools: in this particular case, seb128 asked me to do it this way, because according to him that script was failing because the orig.tar.gz was in a PPA
<siretart> bigjools: I don't know how seb128 comes to this conclusion
<bigjools> ok
<bigjools> thanks for the background
<bigjools> siretart: I tested that theory and it looks wrong
<siretart> bigjools: okay. But you could confirm the problem then?
<bigjools> siretart: it would be good if you could try uploading the same package to dogfood so we can rule out a packaging error
<bigjools> siretart: I've not re-created this yet
<siretart> bigjools: sure. which host?
<bigjools> mawson.canonical.com
<siretart> bigjools: uploaded
<bigjools> siretart: thanks I will take a look
<siretart> bigjools: just received another reject message from "archive@ubuntu.com"
<bigjools> siretart: same error?
<siretart> bigjools: no, this time I get this one:
<siretart> Rejected:
<siretart> Signing key 709F54E4ECF3195623326AE3F82E5CC04B2B2B9E not registered in launchpad.
<siretart> Sourceful upload without a .dsc
<siretart> Unable to find the dsc file in the sourceful upload?
<bigjools> darn it
<siretart> oh wait
<siretart> there is indeed something fishy here
<siretart> the changes file is signed by me, but I kept the signature on the dsc file from the debian maintainer
<siretart> maybe this is a problem?
<siretart> however it is still strange that I get a different error message for the same upload
<bigjools> siretart: yes dogfood is slightly behind production, it's our testing ground
<siretart> please tell me if you need another upload, or if I should resign the dsc file
<bigjools> can you resign it please
<siretart> and upload to dogfood or production?
<bigjools> (sorry if I seem vacant, I am addressing another production issue at the same time)
<bigjools> upload to dogfood again
<bigjools> I want to see if we can reprpoduce the same error there
<siretart> reuploaded to dogfood
<CoD_FSFE> hello, I have a nooooobish question to ask about launchpad.... :)
<bigjools> siretart: thanks, I'll take a look, assuming it didn't get rejected?
<evadave> CoD_FSFE: first rule of asking questions - just ask them :P
<siretart> bigjools: no idea, becuase I didn't receive any message.
<bigjools> siretart: ok it was probably accepted then
<CoD_FSFE> lol ok: I'm the itlaina translator of the game scourge, now we have a new contributor but his translations need review before being submitted. 
<CoD_FSFE> *italian
<CoD_FSFE> I think we should create a group and add me as italian translator and leave him as a contributor... am I right?
<CoD_FSFE> I'm not sure about the difference between teams and groups and how to create them: waht we need is a sort of "translator in charge" who should check contirbutions before merging them in the main po file
<Kuhrscher> carlos, danilos: I asked you some days ago about the missing kmplayer.mo in the langpacks...
<Kuhrscher> carlos, danilos: Even in the latest langpacks it is not included, although it has a template in Rosetta...
<carlos> let me see...
<Kuhrscher> carlos: Btw. shouldn't there be a translations file for restricted manager and aport in the lanmgpacks for Kubuntu too?
<carlos> restricted manager has a problem I need to look into
<carlos> about apport... no idea, that's something to discuss with Martin Pitt
<carlos> he does the split
<CoD_FSFE> so is there anyone who can tell me how to create team/group and if this is what we need to manage contributions?
<danilos> 
<bigjools> siretart: it was ok in dogfood.  I think we need to wait for cprov to arrive and he'll be able to help further.
<Kuhrscher> carlos: Thanks, I'll ask him. And this kmplayer issue?
<danilos> CoD_FSFE: file a support ticket at answers.launchpad.net/rosetta/, and we'll help you with that
<CoD_FSFE> ok thanks
<siretart> bigjools: ok. I see
<bigjools> siretart: sorry I can't help further at the moment :(
<siretart> bigjools: normally, I woudl file a bug against soyuz, but I'm not sure how to describe the problem in a way that helps you to find the problem
<bigjools> siretart: file it as best as you can please so we can track the issue
<siretart> I'll paste this irc query
<bigjools> thanks
<carlos> Kuhrscher: hmm, indeed, there is a problem with it
<carlos> Kuhrscher: could you file a bug report? I don't see any reason it's not being exported
<Kuhrscher> I already did...
<Kuhrscher> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/123544
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 123544 in kmplayer "Kmplayer Package does not contain translations" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
<siretart> field as bug #141457
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141457 in soyuz "upload rejected because of appearantly missing orig.tar.gz (which is uploaded)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141457
<Kuhrscher> The bug title is a little bit misleading at the moment ...
<CoD_FSFE> /part
<carlos> Kuhrscher: oh, wait!
<carlos> if it was moved from universe to main, the problem will be fixed once we do a new full language pack update for Gutsy
<bigjools> thanks siretart
<Kuhrscher> carlos: But we have to do this manually, right?
<carlos> that's something we will do at some point soon, maybe right before the beta release (to reduce the CD usage)
<carlos> I will need to check with Martin Pitt
<Kuhrscher> Ok, thanks.
<Kuhrscher> carlos: Btw. how long does it usually take until a new template is approved for Rosetta?
<carlos> if it was already approved, it's a matter of hours 
<carlos> if it's the first time we see it, it depends on us taking a look to the list of templates pending to be approved
<carlos> we do that from time to time
<Kuhrscher> I'm asking because kdesudo awaits approval for some days now...
<Kuhrscher> A I wondered if we just have to wait or if there is any problem...
<carlos> no, is just that we didn't manually approve it yet (it's a new one)
<Kuhrscher> Ok, so I'll be just patient. Thanks.
<ubotu> New bug: #141457 in soyuz "upload rejected because of appearantly missing orig.tar.gz (which is uploaded)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141457
<seb128> hi
<seb128> can a launchpad product be renamed?
<jtv> hi
<jtv> I'm pretty sure it can, though I haven't tried
<jtv> Is it a product you registered?
<mrevell> seb128: If you file a request in Launchpad Answers I think Tom will be able to take a look.
<seb128> what is "Launchpad Answers"?
<seb128> jtv: no, it's control-center which has been renamed to gnome-control-center upstream and in Ubuntu
<jtv> ah, then... what mrevell said
<mrevell> seb128: Sorry, I'll get you the URL. The Answer tracker.
<seb128> mrevell: I don't want to ask an user question
<jtv> "Answers" is one of the apps in Launchpad, just like Bugs or Translations
<seb128> right, that used to be called "support tracker" no?
<carlos> seb128: that's the ticket system we use for this kind of requests
<seb128> that's where we redirect users who file bugs without knowing what they are doing
<mrevell> seb128: We use Launchpad Answers to track requests such as that but the general use is for user support.
<seb128> hum, k
<mrevell> seb128: Our use is, perhaps, atypical.
<carlos> seb128: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<mrevell> Ah, thanks carlos
<carlos> np
<seb128> I don't want to "ask a question"
<seb128> :p
<seb128> k, will use that
<mrevell> seb128: If it makes you feel better, you can email help@launchpad.net, but then I'll just file a request in the Answer Tracker :-)
<carlos> seb128: 'Pretty please, could you rename control-center to gnome-control-center?'
<carlos> seb128: that's a question for me :-P
<seb128> carlos: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/13771
<carlos> seb128: thanks ;-)
<seb128> carlos, mrevell: thank you guys for pointing me to the right place ;)
<mrevell> seb128: I'll put something on the help wiki so other people know what to do. Thanks.
<seb128> carlos: how is rosetta handling the GNOME 2.20 massive upload btw? ;)
<carlos> seb128: well, we had a day of delay... and we have now three days of delay :-(
<carlos> other than that... 
<seb128> carlos: do you have an estimation of when the 2.20 translations will be language packs?
<carlos> I just planned with Martin a full language pack update for Gutsy's beta
<carlos> so either I wait until all files are imported
<seb128> right
<carlos> or we will generate it later today
<seb128> and I would like to get 2.20 translations in this export
<seb128> let's move that to #ubuntu-devel
<carlos> please, talk with pitti to see whether we have enough time to wait for it
<carlos> sure
<ubotu> New bug: #141461 in rosetta "Automatic string in translator-credits could not be translate" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141461
<pochu> carlos: re: tracker translations... we fixed bug 133555, could you check that the templates are now there, and if yes, accept it? thanks
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 133555 in tracker "Tracker does not include any translations" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133555 - Assigned to Sebastien Bacher (seb128)
<carlos> sure, let me check...
<carlos> pochu: I already approved it
<carlos> it's just waiting to be imported
<carlos> I hope it will be done later today
<pochu> carlos: cool, thanks a lot
<carlos> np
<Etapien> how can I change the email address I get notifications from launchpad? can't find that anywhere
<Etapien> meaning.. my launchpad account email address.
<pochu> Etapien: launchpad.net/~you/+editmails
<Etapien> Thank you.
<Kmos> why are 1.1.9 released and we still come to edge ?
<kiko> Kmos, you will always come to edge. the redirect is always on -- that way you always enjoy the most recent code.
<Kmos> kiko: but when it's released, we don't come back ?
<kiko> Kmos, edge is always ahead of tip 
<kiko> err
<Kmos> kiko: yes.. but I open launchpad.net and it continues to redirect to edge
<Kmos> after release, that's disabled right 
<Kmos> ?
<kiko> no.
<kiko> why would it be disabled? work continues on trunk, and edge moves ahead daily.
<elmo> bazaar.launchpad.net and codebrowse.launchpad.net are going down for emergency maintenance, ETD is 10 minutes
<Kmos> kiko: ok =)
<kiko> thanks elmm
<kiko> elmo
<elmo> bazaar.launchpad.net and codebrowse.launchpad.net are back
<pochu> elmo: wow, ten minutes later as estimated :)
<Hobbsee> wow, guys!
<Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase and such looks great!
<kiko> sabdfl, ^^^ :)
<soren> win 4
<soren> gah..
<elmo> yeah, that is nice
<Hobbsee> kiko: :)
<kiko> it was mark's handiwork :)
<Hobbsee> kiko: right, then i wont tell sabdfl that there's a guy whining about all the things it lacks, then.
<Daviey> Can KDE ever look "great"?
<Hobbsee> Daviey: yes.
<Kmos> kiko: bug 124298
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 124298 in soyuz "Changelog link at (source) to check last modifications" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124298
<ubotu> New bug: #141499 in launchpad "Include top referer along with 404 OOPS items" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141499
<Kmos> this one can be closed
<Kmos> the new +source was great
<kiko> thanks Kmos 
<Hobbsee> kiko: i'm told that backports versions look strange in there.
<cprov> Hobbsee: hi, do you have an example of "backports are weird in ubuntu/+source" page ?
<Hobbsee> cprov: http://rafb.net/p/xha1DF43.html was the full log
<cprov> Hobbsee: thanks
<ubotu> New bug: #141512 in launchpad "Needing a method to insert URL to the "main" launchpad page for the context" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141512
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm filing bugs now.
<ubotu> New bug: #141513 in launchpad "Publishing History page links to itself and not to main package page" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141513
<ubotu> New bug: #141514 in launchpad "New source package page does not show all release pockets" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141514
<ScottK> In unrelated news, I'm curious if LP supports (or has plans for) the supporting the Hompage field in debian/control: http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20070920.050504.e67f1303.en.html
<kiko> ScottK, hmmm, interesting question.
<ScottK> Although it's not policy yet, I've seen that DD's are starting to use the field.
<ScottK> FYI.
<sabdfl> Hobbsee: i'm happy to get feedback on that page
<sabdfl> that first cut was a quick attempt to make the UI vaguely useful, there's plenty of room for improvement and i'd like to get a copy of the whining :-)
<ScottK> sabdfl: I'm the whiner.
<ScottK> It's in the log that Hobbsee linked to above.
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: the log is ^
<ScottK> I've also filed bugs.
<pochu> ScottK, kiko: that (the homepage thing) has been done in Ubuntu too for some time
<slytherin> ScottK: but dpkg will need to be upgraded to 1.14.6, right?
<ScottK> pochu: This is (I'm pretty sure) a different one.
<ScottK> slytherin: So I understand.  We'll get to that eventually.
<ScottK> I thought it worth a mention now so it could be planned for.
<pochu> ScottK: oh, not the two-spaces-Homepage: in description?
<ScottK> pochu: No.  Any actual field for it in debian/control.
<ScottK> Any/an
<sabdfl> ScottK: FUBAR would be an exaggeration
<ScottK> sabdfl: You're right.  I am prone to exaggeration to make a point.
<slytherin> ScottK: I am not a developer but I think it is a good idea.
<pochu> ScottK: oh, sorry then
* pochu hides
<sabdfl> ScottK: the only point that consistently makes is that one is prone to exaggeration ;-)
<sabdfl> so, you want to see the per-pocket currently-published version?
<ScottK> sabdfl: My initial reaction to page is that it is significantly less useful to me as a MOTU than the old one.
<sabdfl> you found the old one, though?
<ScottK> sabdfl: It's necessary to understand the state of the archive and what needs to be worked on.
<ScottK> Yes.
<sabdfl> how would you define "what needs to be worked on"?
<ubotu> New bug: #141517 in malone "Version History is often incomplete" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141517
<Hobbsee> ScottK: incidently, i found the opposite.
<carlos_> danilos: hi, around?
<ScottK> Sure.  Opinions will vary.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i supsect hte difference is that you care about the non-development release, whereas i dont.
<sabdfl> i'm trying to understand what you are looking for, so i can make sure that info is readily available
* Hobbsee has good typing today!  not!
<sabdfl> *most* folks say they want to see the change history there
<sabdfl> but defining the "change history" is tricky, when you look at the distro level
<ScottK> First, if a changelog type history is going to be presented, it should be complete and correct.
<sabdfl>  - you have changes in different releases, and pockets, interwoven
<ScottK> The current instantiation is neither.
<sabdfl>  - you also have people revising history (i.e. changing the changelog entries for previous versions in the changelog of later versions)
<ScottK> I think that presenting incomplete information is often worse than presenting none.
<sabdfl> so, complete and correct would also be totally overwhelming in the usual case
<ScottK> People's opinion's will vary on that.
<sabdfl> that's of course true
<sabdfl> i am happy to evolve that page with tweaks to make it better, but i think most people prefer this as a starting point to the previous version
<sabdfl> the detailed publishing history is still there
<sabdfl> would you like to see a "what's published NOW" summary at the top of the publishing history page?
<sabdfl> i.e.
<sabdfl>  edgy-release  4.6.35-0ubuntu5
<tgm4883> Would it be possible to get someone to remove a package from my PPA?
<sabdfl>  edgy-security 4.6.25-0ubuntu6
<sabdfl> tgm4883: definitely, if you can wait a month or so, that someone could be you :-)
<ScottK> sabdfl: I think if you could take the old summary and add the new changes stuff under it, it would be much better.
<tgm4883> heh, thats whaat I was afraid of
<tgm4883> sounds good though if thats my option
<ScottK> The new summary at the top with only the most recent version per release is just too much summation.
<sabdfl> tgm4883: yes, i think that's best rather than taking DBA time
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: i would be of the opinion that you could do a dropdown from the summary of releases or something, starting with the development one at the top
<ScottK> sabdfl: Particulary if there is a backports version.  That should be shown separately.
<sabdfl> ScottK: the real intent of that is to show linkages to upstream series
<tgm4883> ok will do
<sabdfl> that is SUPPOSED to show mappings to upstream major version branches
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: why, though?  does anyone actually use that?
<ScottK> sabdfl: Do you have an example where that's actually filled out and useful?
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: i dont think people understand major version branches, so they dont use it.
<Hobbsee> i certainly dont.
<ScottK> So far I haven't found a package where that had anything?
<sabdfl> it's not widely used now, but if we can make it easier to use I think it will help
<sabdfl>  - pass translations back
<sabdfl>  - pull new translations in directly from upstream VCS
<sabdfl>  - map bugs to relevant upstream versions
<Hobbsee> ScottK: kdebase does, but the info is wrong.
<ScottK> sabdfl: Then I would say it should't be the default U/I until it's actually useful.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: and i havent attempted to deal with the great *mess* of upstream bugs, etc.
<carlos_> kiko: ping
<sabdfl>  - identify packages where upstream has new code and we could update the package
* Hobbsee can never work that lot out, so avoids it as much as possible.
<ScottK> As it is, you are hiding the information I use every day as an Ubuntu dev in favor of something that may be useful at some point in the future.
<sabdfl> ScottK: hmm.. i'm not hiding it, the old page is (deliberately for this very case) still there
<ScottK> sabdfl: Could that be done from watch files?
<sabdfl> ScottK: we are hoping it will be done against upstream version control, which is one better
<ScottK> sabdfl: It's a link further away than it used to be.
<ScottK> sabdfl: I'd say that the one you have is better
<ScottK> I think debian/watch is a lot more common.
<sabdfl> ScottK: tell me again what you mean by "see what needs to be worked on"
<ScottK> I'd suggest use debian/watch where you have no VCS information.
<ScottK> sabdfl: It varies, but I do a lot of work with *-backports, *-proposed, *-updates, and *-security in the current releases.
<siretart> cprov: hey there!
<ScottK> Often it's complex to understand (particularly when one is looking at a security update) which versions need to be addressed.
<siretart> cprov: have you seen the problems regarding the live-initramfs upload?
<sabdfl> what do you mean by "do work with"? are you for example checking to see which releases need updating when a security issue is identified?
<ScottK> I expect that Hobbsee and I will have substantially different perspectives as I spend a lot more time working on the releases.
<ScottK> sabdfl: That's one example.  Yes.
<sabdfl> by working on the releases, you mean working on things like edgy, feisty?
<sabdfl> i.e. adding backports, or proposed, or security?
<ScottK> It can get tricky as I've had pending SRU's in proposed that also needed the security fix.
<ScottK> Yes
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> i think what you want is something that shows the every version of a given package published in any pocket
<ScottK> Similarly when triaging bugs it can be hard to know exactly what version of a package someone might be using without the full history in front of you.
<sabdfl> reading the log, it seems that's what you want
<ScottK> sabdfl: Yes.  Which is what I had up until today.
<carlos_> kiko: I just sent you an email about the patch you asked me. I really need to go right now
<sabdfl> wel, you also had a lot of removed versions to filter through
<cprov> siretart: yes, I did, but I'm not sure you understood what is exactly wrong.
<ScottK> sabdfl: Yes, but that's trivial to do.
<carlos_> kiko: will be back in around 4 hours to handle any review comments and merge that branch
<Hobbsee> ScottK: you either have triviality finding the latest versions, as we have now, or you have triviality finding what you want.
<sabdfl> ScottK: i could put that on the front page with pleasure, if you promise not to exaggerate when you are giving me constructive feedback in future ;-)
* Fujitsu thinks that adding a pocket column after the series one, and splitting each series row into one for each pocket from the column on, would work.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes, but the "latest versions" we have now aren't always the latest.
<ScottK> sabdfl: I'll promise to work on that.
<sabdfl> okdokey
<cprov> siretart: we do have a problem with our sync-source tool (which erroneously consider a PPA orig file as a already published ubuntu file). However, a new upload of the source directly to the primary ubuntu archive (including the orig) should work fine.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: they mostly are.  i thnk
<sabdfl> i'll try get to it this weekend, and if I do, it will show up on edge.lp.net some time next week
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Backports is a big problem in my opinion.  They are not an official Ubuntu release.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: so just throw out the backports.  they're full of crack anyway, see !jdong.
* Hobbsee ducks
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I agree there are lots of crackful backports.  I've been working on making them less so.
<sabdfl> ScottK: as for the PPA-closing-bugs, that's a bug of course, which the beta program was designed to find
<ScottK> sabdfl: The problem is that it was closing live bugs.  
<sabdfl> i think backports are very useful indeed
<sabdfl> ScottK: yes, that's what happens on a real beta with real data :-)
<ScottK> I agree that they are useful (and I am one of the ubuntu-backporters), but they need to be listed separately.
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: there are some mighty big beta bugs, though - that should have been picked up long before this point, imo - it's quite public now still.
<Hobbsee> (but i'm aware that we cant change this now)
<sabdfl> listed separately?
<ScottK> sabdfl: As an outsider, that one just seemed so obvious, especially considering there was already an outstanding bug against *-proposed closing bug.
<ScottK> sabdfl: In your current U/I if the most recent version is a backports version, that's all that gets listed.
<ScottK> Since backports aren't enabled by default (for good reason), that really isn't appropriate IMO.
<sabdfl> i didn't realise that -backports was being listed in there too
<sabdfl> interesting
<ScottK> Here's an example https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyspf
<ScottK> Look at Edgy
<Fujitsu> Hm, some linkiness might be nice there, too.
<ScottK> sabdfl: It is my opinion (and it's an outside users opinion, so it may be completely wrong) that LP is leaning to heavily into getting features out the door and not doing enough really thinking them through first.  It's a balance that I know is hard to get right.
<ScottK> Both the -backports issue here and the PPA closing bugs issues are ones that I think additional design and thought could/should have caught.
<sabdfl> well, ppa is a huge change, it's expected that it have some bugs, and the beta is designed to catch those before it goes wild
<sabdfl> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&
<bigjools> fwiw, that ppa closing bugs bug is fixed now
<ScottK> bigjools: That's good to hear.
<ScottK> How about *-proposed?
<cprov> ScottK: fixed, too
<ScottK> Good.
<bigjools> it's unfortunate that bugs like that creep in, but us developers are only human and as sabdfl says, the beta phase is designed to catch this sort of thing
<Hobbsee> cprov: and the version number bugs?  *g*
<cprov> Hobbsee: PPA version consistency depends of sorting auto-overrides properly, as mentioned in the bug report,  it will get fixed during 1.1.10 (or ASAP).
<Hobbsee> cprov: yay!  :)
<Hobbsee> cprov: FWIW, i think kiko's idea was fairly good - about sending everything to universe by default.
<cprov> Hobbsee: I should have said 'we', bigjools is also in this *boat* ;)
<ScottK> bigjools: As I said, design effort versus will bugfix it before release is a difficult balance.  I have my opinion on it, but it's not my project.
<Hobbsee> cprov: ahhh
* Hobbsee kicks launchpad
<Hobbsee> mrevell: that seems to be reproducible, btw (login to edge, and it doesnt show you as logged in the first time)
<cprov> Hobbsee: yes, PPAs are very tied to 'universe' component and it should work very well, IMO too.
<Hobbsee> second time lucky.
<dpm> Could anyone tell me when are the launchpad translations synched with the gnome translations? are there going to be any several syncronisations (i.e. after the 2.20 and 2.20.1 releases)?
<dpm> s/any//
<pochu> could anybody explain me why bug 134567 is really a bug?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 134567 in soyuz "having a debian/copyright should not be a requirement" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134567 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
<pochu> I mean, why debian/copyright shouldn't be a requirement? If it's going to be downloadable by anyone, it should have the copyright holders in the deb package...
<elmo> pochu: sometimes the copyright information is not in debian/copyright in the source package
<cprov> pochu: some deb packages generate binary copyrights (this bit is required) dynamically based on a source template.
<elmo> pochu: there's already a requirement that it be in /usr/share/doc/$package/copyright for binary  packages
<pochu> oh, so basically it has to have a copyright, either from debian/copyright or from another place (e.g. the template) ?
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Sorry, gotta read up, was making a cup of tea
<Hobbsee> mrevell: you and tea... :)
<mrevell> Hobbsee: It powers my working day :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: i pity those of us who dont drink tea then
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Every time you log into edge it fails to recognise you the first time?
<bigjools> The British Empire was founded on tea.  And look what happened to that.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: after iv'e cleared cookies, yes.
<Hobbsee> bigjools: yes, you were stupid enough to send your convicts out here.
<Hobbsee> bigjools: and just look at who has the better weather!
<bigjools> Hobbsee: yeah we screwed that one up, should left the convicts in London and shipped ourselves out there :)
<ScottK> The convicts seem to have done rather well on multiple continents.
<bigjools> Hobbsee: where do you live?
<Hobbsee> bigjools: as in, city or country?
<bigjools> city
<Hobbsee> ah.  sydney.
* bigjools likes Sydney
<Hobbsee> sydney is nice, modulo traffic, and modulo APEC.
<bigjools> but, it's what, 1am there?  Don't you ever sleep? :)
<Hobbsee> er, and modulo housing prices.
<Hobbsee> bigjools: i do.  my sleep cycle is still shot.
<Hobbsee> bigjools: i blame ubuntu.
<Hobbsee> and work.
<bigjools> same thing for me :)
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Any chance you could file a bug?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: about the edge logins?
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah, I could do it if you like but it's gonna be more, erm, authentic if you do it.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: authentic how?
<ScottK> As in from an actual user, I'd expect.
<mrevell> Hobbsee: I haven't been able to replicate the problem, so if I report it I'm just going to ask you, "What happened?" and then use your words :)
<Hobbsee> mrevell: ah right
<mrevell> Hobbsee: what browser are you using?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: so even if you clear your cookies/browsing history, you dont get it?
<Hobbsee> mrevell: firefox!
<Hobbsee> must...have....firefox.....
<mrevell> Hobbsee: Just tried again in Epiphany but still can't reproduce.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: odd.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: it may be that launchpad just hates me.  it wouldnt be the first time.
<ubotu> New bug: #141527 in launchpad-bazaar "branch-puller mirror scripts fails with an InvalidURIError" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141527
<sabdfl> kiko: https://edge.launchpad.net/~launchpad/+mugshots
<ScottK> sabdfl: Thanks for the discussion.  
<ScottK> See you all later.
<Hobbsee> oh twitch, the mugshots.
<Hobbsee> although i like the way those are put.
<bigjools> oy, I really didn't need to see kiko's underarm hair
<ubotu> New bug: #141532 in launchpad "Membership approval page doesn't handle plurals correctly" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141532
<Hobbsee> bigjools: sleep is overrated, anyway.
<bigjools> Hobbsee: 2am and counting
<Hobbsee> yup
<bigjools> I am going on a stag party tomorrow night, I imagine we'll just be starting at 2am
<Hobbsee> haha
<bigjools> starting _what_ though.... :)
<Hobbsee> bigjools: goodness only knows...
<bigjools> let's just say it *won't* be an Ubuntu installation party
<Hobbsee> well, duh.
<LaserJock> wha? why not? :-)
<LaserJock> it can be a case study in drunken computing
<LaserJock> the UI insights could be very interesting
<ubotu> New bug: #141540 in soyuz "New source page doesn't show in which component a package is" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141540
<bersace> Hi
<bersace> seems that ppa does not like timezone
<bersace> my tarballs are in the future
<bersace> :/
<Hobbsee> or you're stuck in the past...
<bersace> i'm in France
<stdin> yeah, the amd64 build?
* stdin gets that sometimes
<bersace> stdin: yes
<bersace> i just have to wait ?
<bersace> i'm wonder also
<bersace> if i have a package depending on another package in my ppa
<stdin> you can either wait, or use the -t option of touch and re-upload a new version
<bersace> does ppa handle installation from current ppa
<bersace> i /+retry the build
<bersace> it's queued
<stdin> yeah, ppa adds your ppas packages to it's sources 
<bersace> stdin: nice :)
<siretart> cprov: I'm not sure you understand what I did: I did an upload WITH the orig file
<siretart> cprov: however, soyuz rejects the upload stateing there wasn't an orig.tar.gz.
<cprov> siretart: the rejection message you forward to bigjools did not contain the orig.
<bigjools> right
<bigjools> dsc was missing the entry in Files
<siretart> cprov: but my upload definitly contained an orig.tar.gz. 
<siretart> uh?
<siretart> wait. I paste my files
<bigjools> add the orig.tar.gz to the Files section in your .dsc file
<cprov> bigjools: I think the orig was mentioned in dsc but not in the changesfile, in that case.
<bigjools> yeah maybe, I get confused easy at my age :)
<siretart> cprov: please see http://paste.debian.net/37683 http://paste.debian.net/37684 and http://paste.debian.net/37685
<siretart> as you can clearly see, the orig.tar.gz is definitly in the changesfile, and has been been uploaded, which the dput log confirms
<bigjools> siretart: in the rejection email you forwarded to me, the changes file is missing the orig.tar.gz
<siretart> bigjools: I forwarded you what soyuz sent me
<bigjools> ok
<bigjools> cprov: ^^^
<siretart> I already said that soyuz is lying here ;)
<cprov> siretart: re-upload the source again, we will see the results in 5 minutes.
<siretart> cprov: to production or dogfood?
<Hobbsee> night all
<cprov> siretart: production, if you are right it will be rejected, otherwise it's fine to get it into gutsy (isn't it what you want ?)
<siretart> gn8 Hobbsee !
<cprov> Hobbsee: night
<siretart> uploaded
<siretart> lets see what happens
<cprov> siretart: thanks
<Ng> I saw some discussion earlier about changelogs closing bugs - can PPA packages do that? I have a project I'm using PPA to build packages for and it'd save me a few clicks :)
<siretart> cprov: rejected again. same result
<siretart> Ng: currently they can, however this is a severe bug for ubuntu developers
<bigjools> siretart, Ng: this issue is now fixed
<Ng> siretart: yeah, I rather got the impression it wasn't going to be allowed
<cprov> siretart: it definitely not the same result you forwarded before:
<Ng> bigjools: so I can't close any bugs with PPA?
<bigjools> Ng: nope
<cprov> 16:50:05 DEBUG   Rejected:                                                                                                                                                                              
<cprov> 16:50:05 DEBUG   Signing key 709F54E4ECF3195623326AE3F82E5CC04B2B2B9E not registered in launchpad.                                                                                                      
<cprov> 16:50:05 DEBUG   Sourceful upload without a .dsc                                                                                                                                                        
<cprov> 16:50:05 DEBUG   Unable to find the dsc file in the sourceful upload?                                                                                                                                   
<siretart> right. now I'm getting the same reject message as from dogfood
<Ng> bigjools: that's a shame, but entirely understandable :)
<siretart> cprov: right. because the dsc file is signed by someone else
<bigjools> Ng: yeah, it caused a bit of a rumpus :)
<siretart> cprov: I'm approving a source package from debian. so the package itself is signed-off by daniel baumann, and I approve it for ubuntu by signing the changes file representing the upload to ubuntu
<siretart> cprov: do you want me to resign the dsc and reupload to production?
<cprov> siretart:  launchpad doesn't know daniel's key, you have to re-sign the dsc. Yes, please
<siretart> ok, reuploaded
<siretart> did you update soyuz today?
<Ng> bigjools: do you happen to know if there are any plans for allowing non-distribution projects to do that kind of thing in the future?
<bigjools> Ng: not that I know of
<Ng> mmkay, ta
<bigjools> Ng: feel free to propose it though, it sounds useful
<bigjools> siretart: a new version of Launchpad was rolled out this morning
<Ng> bigjools: I may well do :)
<siretart> bigjools: so may be that's why I get different results now
<bigjools> siretart: what is happening now?
<bigjools> is it working?
<siretart> bigjools: I've uploaded a resigned package and I'm waiting for the answer. didn't receive it yet
<bigjools> it's probably in the incoming queue now then and wasn't rejected
<bigjools> the email that you sent me includes the changes file that you sent, it's not generated from anything, so I guess you must have got it wrong in the first instance
<siretart> HA!
<siretart> now I've got a mail that it's waiting for approval
<siretart> so things work again right now
* siretart hugs bigjools & cprov!
<cprov> siretart: no ... they have always worked as expected  for this matter. I dunno what you have done wrong before ;)
<ScottK> When I was filing Bug 141546, I was unable to figure a way to link to the upstream bug tracker.  Since CPAN Is not exactly an obscure source of code, I'm figuring I didn't get it right.  Could someone please help me figure out how to link to the CPAN RT in this bug?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141546 in libnet-dns-perl "make_query_packet() IP address detection broken" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141546
<hexmode> ScottK: the link works for me
<ScottK> The link in the bug description works.
<ScottK> I'm talking about adding it as an upstream bug that will be status tracked.
<hexmode> ah
<ScottK> IIRC, before I could click on also affect project and add the URL.  I don't seem to be able to do that anymore.
<hexmode> well... Canonical  Python more than Perl... so it may not be a high priority ;)
<hexmode> but seriously... I dunno
* ScottK too, but I don't always get to pick.
* hexmode realizes he is amongst heretics
<ScottK> I saw " * When adding a bug watch, if Launchpad doesn't recognise the  external bug tracker it will ask if you want to register the new  tracker at the same time. (Bug 4592)" in the LP 1.1.9 release notes and wonder if what I am experiencing is by design or a bug?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 4592 in malone "Easier bugtracker registration workflow." [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4592 - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)
<hexmode> ScottK: I've seen the upstream link done (Bug 125650).  On that bug, clicking "Also affects project" lists the gnome bug tracker
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 125650 in deskbar-applet "deskbar-applet crashed: 'module' object has no attribute 'ThumbnailFactory'" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125650
<ScottK> It seems to me it used to be possible to just feed it a url if you had one, but no longer.
<hexmode> clicking that on your bug lets you add an affected project
<ScottK> Right, but in this case CPAN seems not to exist.
<hexmode> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/libnet-dns-perl/+edit-packaging
* ScottK looks
<hexmode> that seems to be where to look, but I'm unsure of what to do
<ScottK> Well it looks like CPAN doesn't exist and so there's nothing I can do.
<ScottK> I guess I'll go look for bugs.
<ScottK> Well that's my 4th LP bug written today....
<ScottK> hexmode: Thanks for helping.
<hexmode> np... wish I knew more
<hexmode> what bug did you file?
<ubotu> New bug: #141563 in launchpad "CPAN not available as a Package upstream link" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141563
<ScottK> hexmode: ^^^ That one.
<marseillai> hi
<marseillai> if someone have some time i don't understand something. I've got a package wich build properly in my gutsy pbuilder but ppa tell me a dependencie is missing : libgtkglext1-dev but it's in universe. so i don't understand.
<marseillai> oki i found the problem
<bdmurray> How does that "with response" filter work?
<bdmurray> Somehow bug 141355 showed up in a "Incomplete (with response)" filter and I am not sure why.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141355 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Atheros AR511 not connecting to networks" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141355
<synic> I'm getting this 500 error when trying to browse bzr via the web again, if anyone wants to reset it: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~exaile-devel/exaile/main/revision/sasongko%40gmail.com-20070921155855-9veli6b799q1apf2
<kiko> synic, hmmm. mwh is away this week, but that wasn't supposed to happen
<synic> d'oh
<kiko> synic, that pretty much sucks. is it just that revision?
<synic> hrmm, looks like it
<bersace> Hi all
<bersace> i have problem of MD5 checksum
<bersace> while uploading to ppa
<bersace> i have checked localy just before dput
<bersace> and i can't get it uploaded
<bersace> launchpad refuses
<bersace> even after few retries
<bersace> i reach to get one upload sucessful
<bersace> no more :/
<stdin> bersace: are you making the .changes file with "debuild" ?
<bersace> yes
<bersace> debuild -S -sa
<bersace> I'm wondering if this is due to the previous upload
<kiko> bersace, if you can put your upload in a paste it'd be nice.
<bersace> kiko: http://bersac.hd.free.fr/~bersace/tmp should contains what you asked
<kiko> bersace, I wanted to see your rejection message actually
<kiko> merci 
<bersace> kiko: voil : http://bersac.hd.free.fr/~bersace/tmp/lp-rejected.msg
<kiko> ah oui
<kiko> bersace, so that message tells you that a) you have already uploaded an orig with this filename before and b) it doesn't match the file you are uploading now.
<bersace> kiko, ok, but i use dput -f, i should override the existing file, isn't it ?
<bersace> it should override 
<kiko> nope
<kiko> once published it's there forever
<kiko> you will need to increment the version
<kiko> and wait for it to be superseded
<bersace> ok
<bersace> :/
<kiko> c'est pas un probleme grave
<bersace> bon, j'ai retlcharg l'archive orig publi depuis ppa et j'ai renvoy  partir de celle l
<bersace> gegl  la manie de modifier les fichiers distribu (doc regnr, etc.)
<bersace> :/
<kiko> c'est horrible
<bersace> rsultat, pas de make distcheck
<bersace> et puis c'est la poisse  empaqueter
<bersace> sinon, je doit attendre la prochaine rvision de gegl pour faire une mj des sources 
<bersace> kiko: c'est tout les quart d'heures qu'incoming est relev ?
<kiko> bersace, a chaque 5 minutes je crois
<kiko> cprov, process-upload runs pretty frequently doesn't it?
<cprov> kiko: yes, */5 
<bersace> ok
<bersace> j'ai upload y'a 20', aucune nouvelle depuis :/
<LaserJock> is anybody here familiar at all with the gnome projects on LP?
<LaserJock> I'm wanting to have a vcs import of goffice
<LaserJock> as I can't seem to find it already
<kiko> I am somewhat familiar
<kiko> LaserJock, it's not registered.
<LaserJock> so I think I'm supposed to create a project for goffice
<kiko> yep
<kiko> launchpad.net/projects/+new
<LaserJock> which I don't like doing, but oh well
<LaserJock> now, I saw that it seems that there is a gnome project-group
<LaserJock> do I have to do anything special to put goffice in the project-group?
<LaserJock> ah, I see a "Part of:" in the registration
<LaserJock> and let me once again say that "Name, Display Name, Title, Summary, Description" are all kind vague ;-)
<kiko> LaserJock, we're fixing that for .11 I think
<kiko> LaserJock, where is it!
* kiko wants to add a packaging link
<LaserJock> where is what?
<kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/goffice/+edit-packaging
<kiko> the product
<LaserJock> ah, I just finished it
<LaserJock> it's /goffice
<kiko> yes!!!
<kiko> one more product!
<LaserJock> ok, *now* I can try to get a vcs import
<kiko> LaserJock, you make it sound so hard. you rocket scientist you.
<LaserJock> too many meetings
<LaserJock> my brain is turned to mush
<LaserJock> Quantum Mechanincs I get ... Launchpad not so much ;-)
<LaserJock> hmm, I see a bit of a typo/confusion in the VCS Import instructions
<kiko> LaserJock, that needs to be fixed too.
<LaserJock> it says "set the source details" and I see links for "Change details" which I mistakenly went to first and "Edit Source" the right one
<kiko> Edit source, yeah.
<LaserJock> I had a 50/50 chance of getting it right
<LaserJock> and since I saw details first I lost :(
<LaserJock> oh geeze
<LaserJock> are we gonna get spammed by the janitor? :-)
<LaserJock> kiko: bug janitor stuff doesn't show up in +activity
<kiko> LaserJock, :-(
<LaserJock> and it's closing my bugs?!?!
<LaserJock> ah well, less work for me ;-)
<kiko> LaserJock, exactly :)
<LaserJock> well, I did have them open for a reason
<kiko> LaserJock, in Incomplete status for more than 2 months?
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> a release takes 6 months
<LaserJock> you never know
<kiko> la la la
<LaserJock> there are bugs for Edgy that I plan on fixing in Hardy
<LaserJock> it's the way it goes sometimes
<kiko> you can confirm them, though
<LaserJock> yeah, but now you're making me work to avoid the janitor :-)
<kiko> I'm trying to get you to conform! :)
<LaserJock> of course
* LaserJock ... resists
* LaserJock hears a voice from the south  "Resistence is futile ... you will be assimilated"
<LaserJock> kiko: hehe, gcompris went from ~17 bugs to 5 via the janitor
* LaserJock is away
<bdmurray> kiko: The janitor closes bugs that are a duplicate?
<bdmurray> see bug 80502 for an example
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 80502 in linux-source-2.6.20 "soft lockup detected on CPU#0! when booting from feisty-desktop-i386 (dup-of: 63418)" [High,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80502
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 63418 in linux-source-2.6.17 "CPU soft lockup during boot if ipw3945 kill switch is on" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63418 - Assigned to Ben Collins (ben-collins)
<kiko> bdmurray, sounds like a bug :)
<bdmurray> kiko: Should that be filed against malone?
<kiko> bdmurray, yes, it should.
<kiko> sinzui:
<sinzui> yes
<kiko> <bdmurray> kiko: The janitor closes bugs that are a duplicate?
<kiko> <bdmurray> see bug 80502 for an example
<kiko> sinzui, bdmurray: does it really make sense to invalidate duplicates? for one it generates confusing bugmail. it also violates the "dupes are almost invisible" rule.
<sinzui> kiko: That is my oversight. We should not be invalidating dups.
<bdmurray> I submitted bug 141597 about it
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141597 in malone "bug janitor expires duplicate bug reports" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141597
<sinzui> bdmurray: Thanks. I'll take that issue.
<bdmurray> Should we just leave those duplicates as Invalid?
<kiko> bdmurray, yeah, it's fine.
<bdmurray> Yeah, I don't think it really hurts per se
<sinzui> bdmurray: Their status was Incomplete to qualify for expiration--the real bug has a different status.
<bdmurray> sinzui: I'm not sure I understand
<sinzui> bdmurray: Sorry. I am being obtuse. The duplicate doesn't have the same status as the true bug, they are allowed to be different.
<sistpoty> hi folks
<bdmurray> Why did bug 76177 expire?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 76177 in hal "allows mounting of EVMS partitions" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76177
<gnomefreak> open for more than 60 days without activity is what i got from the bunch of emails
<bdmurray> It has an upstream task and I thought that would block expiration
<radix> bdmurray: The most recent comment gives a reason
<radix> oh
<sistpoty> hm... on the code.lp sites, there used to be a personalized checkout url, which isn't personalized any more...
<gnomefreak> bdmurray: good point
<gnomefreak> it shouldnt
<sistpoty> used to be very convenient for copy'n'paste, should I file a bug?
<radix> hmm, so it expires it per task.
<gnomefreak> upstream task is kind of useless without ubuntu task
<okaratas> hello
<kiko> bdmurray, gnomefreak, radix: I'll file a bug, that's undesireable.
<gnomefreak> ty kiko 
<bdmurray> kiko: Do I understand how it is supposed to work though?  Not expire if upstream exists?
<sinzui> bdmurray: gnomefreak: upstream must be blocked. I'm looking into it
<gnomefreak> sinzui: if it has upstream task open ubuntu task needs to stay open 
<gnomefreak> LP doesnt control upstream tasks so its not that its blocked LP has no control over status
<sinzui> bdmurray: gnomefreak: I see.
<sinzui> gnomefreak: I think we need to revise the rule and except that we wont be clean up very well...You and I can see 'hal' in the title of the affected code, but they are not related. I believe we should not be expiring any bug that any part of them affect upstream.
<kiko> sinzui, not if upstream has a valid status at least.
<bdmurray> The two tasks are not related?
<kiko> it's tricky though
<kiko> why is the bug marked incomplete?
<gnomefreak> kiko: i would say anything with upstream status unless closed should stay
<gnomefreak> upstream sometimes doesnt get to them right away or with in months (atleast mozilla)
<bdmurray> It looks like Martin wanted more information and while expiring it has drawn our attention to it again I'm not sure that is really ideal.
<sinzui> I've drawn these notes so far: duplicates are exempt, bugs with any valid upstream bugtasks are exempt, Use comment activity as the date indicator
<bdmurray> On another note the HAL task in launchpad shows Confirmed while upstream is New
<bdmurray> sinzui: that sounds right
<gnomefreak> bdmurray: i guess its not just mozilla upstream than 
<sinzui> bdmurray: Not really. I'm looking for rules that would qualify freedesktop-bug New as Confirmed.
<bdmurray> sinzui: I meant the notes so far - sorry about that.
<RainCT> hi
<RainCT> why do duplicated bugs automatically expire? :P
<gnomefreak> RainCT: its a bug
<gnomefreak> RainCT: we have been talking about it
<RainCT> ah ok
<kiko> sinzui, the valid upstream bugtasks issue is interesting, because it is somewhat unilateral.
<sinzui> kiko: yeah. I'm investigating that now. We have different rules for translating status too.
<kiko> sinzui, not bugwatches -- bugtasks. :)
<ubotu> New bug: #141591 in soyuz "PPA package counters and size estimation erroneously consider  REMOVED packages" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141591
<sinzui> kiko: we use bugwatches to translate upstream status. I'm asking myself why bug 76177 is confirmed upstream when I can see that it is new upstream.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 76177 in hal "allows mounting of EVMS partitions" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76177
<kiko> sinzui, because, confusingly, bugzilla uses UNCONFIRMED and NEW where we use New and Confirmed.
<kiko> sinzui, I was against the renaming! nobody listened!
<sinzui> kiko: I will remember that. I was looking through code to look that distraction up
<radix> whoah! a bug on one of my projects expired. That's so exciting.
<kiko> radix, so did 5 of mine!
<seb128> kiko: around?
<gnomefreak> seb128: they are working on the bug cleaner thing atm i think
<gnomefreak> still even
<seb128> "bug cleaner"?
<kiko> seb128, yeah, how's it going
<seb128> kiko: just got like on hundred mails from "Launchpad Janitor" which closed valid bugs because nobody replied to those
<gnomefreak> that would be the one
<kiko> seb128, tis life on the edge. :)
<seb128> I'm wondering what's going on
<seb128> kiko: "on the edge"?
<seb128> kiko: you mean they are not been closed in production?
<gnomefreak> new LP name i thought was edge.lp.whatever
<gnomefreak> or is that just testing team?
<seb128> gnomefreak: I know what edge is
<kiko> I was just joking seb128 
<kiko> it's because we just rolled out.
<gnomefreak> my point was i didnt know if it was new final or testing team only
<seb128> kiko: how come that you did roll such change without any notice to bugsquad nor distro team before?
<kiko> seb128, there was notice, but you didn't notice. :)
<seb128> where?
<kiko> to launchpad-users and all the other channels where we pre-announce coming features.
<kiko> seb128, there was actually a thread on launchpad-users and ubuntu-devel I believe
<seb128> launchpad-users is that a joke?
<seb128> do you expect the distro team to read launchpad-users?
<kiko> yes I do
<seb128> k, so sorry to disapoint you
<seb128> but I don't think many people read user list
<seb128> we don't manage to read ubuntu-users
<kiko> seb128, it's okay, I will still be your friend. :)
<kiko> as for the expiration
<kiko> it'll run this once and then we'll see how it went. 
<seb128> well, looks like you just create lot of extra work for me by closing hundred of bugs I will have to check manually and reopen
<kiko> sinzui and I are collecting notes on it
<seb128> and beta is next week
<seb128> that's really a not nice screwing from you
<kiko> seb128, that's unfortunate. sinzui and I will pay you beers in boston
<seb128> and I'm quite disapointed
<sinzui> seb128: I wrote the bug-expiration process that has run amok though your bug. How can I help fix this? We have been discussing the criteria that exempt bugs from expiration
<seb128> where did you write about that?
<kiko> heh
<seb128> kiko: undo it?
<seb128> or I'll have to spend the gutsy beta week to undo it
<seb128> and that will impact on gutsy
<kiko> seb128, just leave the bugs as is
<seb128> no
<kiko> seb128, they were expired because nothing happened for 60 days
<seb128> yes, because I'm overworked
<kiko> (well, mostly)
<seb128> that's nothing the users should be blamed for
<kiko> seb128, trust me. the will reopen the bugs if they are still relevant.
<seb128> who will?
<kiko> the reporter.
<sinzui> seb128: To the 60 days and not assigned or bugwatch rules I have three new rules to add: 1. Duplicates are exempt. 2. Bugs with any valid upstream bugtasks are exempt. 3. Use comment activity as the date indicator.
<seb128> no they wont
<seb128> they will scream about how ubuntu treat users
<seb128> and I'll agree with them
<seb128> if they send a bug, we don't reply and we close who is to blame?
<bdmurray> seb128: aren't a fair bit of bugs assigned to the desktop team?
<seb128> the ubuntu team for sure
<RainCT> kiko: what's about adding a "If you think this bug was closed by mistake, or you are now able to provide more information, please feel free to reopen it." ?
<RainCT> ..to the message that it leaves when closing the bugs
<bdmurray> I thought assigned bugs were not supposed to expire.
<seb128> sinzui: bugs which have not got reply from the Ubuntu team should never be closed
<seb128> we should not close bugs because we suck at replying
<kiko> RainCT, replying to the message should also reopen the bug, which is indeed a problem.
<seb128> I would like to know where the mails about that has been sent
<seb128> I don't think it's acceptable to do that without proper notice to the distro team which is the mean user of the bug tracker
<RainCT> seb128: we should not close bugs because we suck at replying if a bug is incomplete isn't it in most cases because the reported needs to provide more information?
<sinzui> seb128: Am I right in understanding that bugs are being marked as Incomplete, and in another session request additional information is requested?
<sinzui> bdmurray: you are right, assigned bug are not supposed to be expired. do you have an example of such a one?
<bdmurray> sinzui: no
<sinzui> Oh goody.
<bdmurray> I don't think bug 77647 should have been closed either as it has an upstream task too
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 77647 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Lexicon Omega USB audio card not working in EDGY EFT" [Wishlist,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77647
<bdmurray> Well, it has a task but not a watch so I guess that makes sense.
<RainCT> kiko: uh.. shouldn't this be stopped before it invalidates half of the duplicated bugs? :P
<sinzui> bdmurray: I have that point: if aspect of the bug is valid upstream, no area that the bug affects should be expired.
<seb128> sinzui: I would like to know where that has been discussed
<seb128> sinzui: there is lot of bugs with a reply from the submitter which have not been replied because nobody from the distro team read the new comment, those should not be closed
<RainCT> seb128: launchpad-users I think. (or at least there was some discussion about closing or not closing bugs)
<seb128> s/replied/reopened
<sinzui> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/91925
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 91925 in malone "Automatically expire old unassigned Incomplete bug reports" [High,Fix released]   - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
<seb128> RainCT: I don't think that's a good media to have a discussion with the distro
<seb128> sinzui: do you expect everybody to read every launchpad bugs to know about changes?
<RainCT> seb128: I can't say anything about that, I'm just a motu contributor ;)
<sinzui> seb128: certainly not. People who thought this was an issue found the bug and participated in the discussion. And the discussion did pick up when I set it's status to in progress,
<seb128> I don't think you are being realistic there
<seb128> how people will "found the bug" if they don't know the action is going on?
<seb128> that's a non-sense
<seb128> do you expect people to read every bug title to know what they might be interested in?
<kiko> seb128, this isn't really the best way to voice your upset. 
<sinzui> I'm not saying that to be flippant.
<mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is approx 1 hour
<seb128> kiko: what is the best way?
<kiko> seb128, write to launchpad-users, or talk to mdz.
<seb128> I'll talk to mdz next week
<kiko> very well
<seb128> you just gave a good slap in the face of Ubuntu users thanks
<seb128> I can't even tell them the topic has been raised on a distro list
<seb128> everything happened on the launchpad side apparently
<sinzui> seb128: What I mean is that I changed what I was doing when I got input. We all struggle to be informed, and we all make choices about were to focus our attention. I did not want to upset anyone with this feature. And I did not want to make more work for anyone.
<ubotu> New bug: #58024 in rosetta "Move Norwegian locale to "nb" instead of "no"" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58024
<seb128> sinzui: I think such changes should be discussed with the distro team before being rolled
<jbailey> Is this a good place to comment that the auto-expire magic is broken?
<jbailey> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/90914
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 90914 in cryptsetup "initramfs cryptroot usplash support" [Undecided,Invalid]  
<Laibsch> jbailey: ;-)
<kiko> jbailey, yeah, there are some corner cases we missed
<ubotu> New bug: #56538 in soyuz "soyuz status messages should not use the submitters email address" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56538
<kiko> jbailey, sinzui's collecting notes 
<Laibsch> Came  here for the same reason ;-)
<ubotu> New bug: #57503 in malone "Request: Assign bug to branch" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57503
<seb128> jbailey: I was just discussing it
<Laibsch> 60 days is a tad short isn't it?
<sinzui> seb128: I'll make an effort to do that. I think I can do better by coordinating my changes with mrevell and Rinchen.
<seb128> but looks like it you don't read launchpad-users you are faulty
<jbailey> Laibsch: Maybe, but in this case it closed a bug after 5 =)
<Laibsch> Oh shit!
<kiko> jbailey, it should have used date_last_commented. 
<seb128> kiko: "corner cases" ... like every bugs where an user replied but the maintainer didn't reopen?
<Laibsch> What is the point in closing bugs that have already been marked as dupes?
<kiko> seb128, yes, corner cases like those. are you trying to get banned from this channel? :)
<Laibsch> And instead of 60 it should be at least 180
<kiko> Laibsch, another bug.
<sinzui> Laibsch: The note is taken.
<seb128> kiko: feel free to ban me if you think that's the way to deal with complains
<jbailey> kiko: I don't think I kept my ubuntu freenode ops, or I'd offer.
<Laibsch> Unless you can require all devs to act promptly on all bugs.
<jbailey> seb128's just a slack-jawed hippy anyway =)
<ubotu> New bug: #55832 in malone "Should have "reported by me" as well as "assigned to me" (dup-of: 50805)" [Low,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/55832
<kiko> seb128, I've heard your complaints, they are valid, now stop harassing us.
<kiko> i.e. yes, you are right, some bugs were expired and shouldn't have been.
<seb128> kiko: nobody replied to it out of "you should read launchpad-users and launchpad bugs" which I don't think it's an appropriate reply
<jbailey> Will some maintenance pass catch all of those corner cases, or should I look through and reopen those ones?
<kiko> jbailey, we will probably do a maintenence run early next week.
<sinzui> Laibsch: The date is configurable. 60 was the consensus for bug 91925. We can extend the period if that is what the community wants.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 91925 in malone "Automatically expire old unassigned Incomplete bug reports" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91925 - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
<jbailey> kiko: Fabulous, thanks!
<sinzui> Laibsch: I means days, not date.
<Laibsch> oh, this is only for "Needsinfo" bugs?
<jbailey> sinzui: Interesting thought for that.  I wonder if failure to assign a bug to someone in 60 days then becomes a TB issue?
<Laibsch> 60 days is OK, then
<LaserJock> hehe, now I need an email janitor to clean up after the LP Janitor :-)
<jbailey> (for packages in main)
<LaserJock> hi jbailey
<jbailey> LaserJock: Hi =)
<LaserJock> jbailey: what city are you in now?
<jbailey> LaserJock: Mountain View, California.
<LaserJock> oh, sweet
<LaserJock> doh, I should have gathered from the Google references
<jbailey> =)
<LaserJock> my wife's aunt lives ~1mile from the googleplex
<LaserJock> and we're about 5hrs drive
* jbailey takes this to /msg
<RainCT> gonna go, good night
* lamont twiddles thumbs waiting for LP to finish scheduled maint
<bdmurray> sinzui: I've seen some bugs with milestones expire and I don't think that should happen either.
<sinzui> bdmurray: I'm not aware of that. I'll add that to the list.
<Fujitsu> Didn't we have a code update yesterday?
<sinzui> Fujitsu: yes
<bdmurray> sinzui: I think the hal bug I mentioned earlier had a milestone.
<kalon33> hello all, some maintenance scheduled with launchpad ?
<kalon33> edge tells me it's in maintenance... :/
<sinzui> yeah, damn
<mthaddon> sorry for not announcing - LP is down for maintenance
<mdz> mthaddon: problem with the 1.1.9 release?
<Nafallo> mthaddon: *hint* topic :-)
<Fujitsu> Are we notified of the maintenance before the 15 minutes before? I didn't see it either of the last twice.
<sinzui> bdmurray: You are correct, It had a milestone
<mdz> I'm being flooded by bug expiry, not all of which I'm certain is valid.  many of them are duplicate bugs, which I don't think make sense to expire
* Fujitsu points at seb128.
<LaserJock> I've only gotten 57 so far :-)
<LaserJock> although that's got dholbach's mass MOTU wiki edit beat
<sinzui> mdz: 1. Duplicates are exempt. 2. Bugs with any valid upstream bugtasks are exempt. 3. Use comment activity as the date indicator. 4 bugs with milestones are exempt. 5. Bug that have never had a reply.
<sinzui> mdz: ^ These are the proposed rules to fix the expiration process.
<seb128> mdz: I've just complained about it
<seb128> mdz: they closed hundred of bugs without discussion with the distro team which is a slap in the face :/
<tarheelcoxn> if there's a maintenance window going on right now, could someone please add the expected end time to the topic?
<Fujitsu>  /me checks through his 140 closures.
<seb128> mdz: some of the bugs are also Needs Info where the submitter replied and where we didn't replied yet nor reopened
<kiko> mdz, we'll run a cleanup next week and revert what was incorrectly expired, there were a few corner cases missed.
<kalon33> mthaddon: please add the maintenance schedule in news.launchpad.net
<kalon33> thanks :)
<mdz> kiko: is there anything I can do to help?
<seb128> mdz: for the record I don't consider bugs were the submitter replied and that we didn't reopen because we lack manpower as corner cases
<kiko> mdz, I think we've got all the input we can handle right now :)
* lamont hands kiko a shovel
<mthaddon> kalon33, check with Rinchen on that one
<seb128> mdz: and I think such changes should be discussed with the distro team before
<mdz> seb128: there was a lot of discussion about this, though I don't recall which mailing list it was on
<Rinchen> I'm logging in to do that now
<mdz> bug 91925 e.g.
<kalon33> Rinchen: thank you ;)
<seb128> mdz: launchpad-users apparently, are we supposed to read this one to know what will change?
<tarheelcoxn> Hi. can anybody tell me roughly when launchpad.net will be back? I'm getting a "down for scheduled maintenance" message.
<Balaams_Miracle> tarheelcoxn: it gets even worse. http://news.launchpad.net/maintenance says that there is no planned maintenance....
<mdz> seb128: it might be a good idea, but no, that shouldn't have been required in order to hear about this change
<tarheelcoxn> oh. ugh
<tarheelcoxn> Balaams_Miracle: thanks. I see that now. time to go get food and worry about things other than my bug, then. :)
<mdz> seb128: I make a point of cross-posting things like that to ubuntu-devel where I think they should be
<seb128> mdz: ok, thanks, I think sending such mails to ubuntu-devel is a good idea
<Balaams_Miracle> tarheelcoxn: Don't let that worry you, i did see a warning about LP going down for maintenance about 20 minutes before it actually happened
<mdz> seb128: I don't always see them, though
<gmb> tarheelcoxn: It's going to be down for approx 1 hour.
* Balaams_Miracle thinks that someone did not (yet) update the maintenance news page.
<tarheelcoxn> gmb: thanks much!
<kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: refresh the news.launchpad.net page now :p
<Balaams_Miracle> kalon33: ok
<seb128> mdz: reading ubuntu lists is already quite some work and I'm not sure I want to read launchpad ones only to know about changes that will impact on the distro workflow
<kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: Rinchen just update it now, that's why you didn't saw it
<mdz> seb128: I'm certain it was discussed with the QA team, but I agree that it's a good idea to involve more developers in the discussion
<Balaams_Miracle> kalon33: heh, just wanted to make sure it wasn't an oversight
<seb128> mdz: I'm subscribed to ubuntu-bugsquad and it wasn't discussed there neither
<kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: No problem ;)
<mdz> seb128: ok, once the smoke has cleared, let's talk about how this should work in the future so that nobody is surprised
<seb128> mdz: ok, thanks
<Balaams_Miracle> The current patch round will probably not fix the numerous timeouts i've grown to expect, will it?
<kiko> Balaams_Miracle, timeouts in what pages?
<kiko> Balaams_Miracle, we did some spectacular work on +translate for this cycle, thanks to jtv
<kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: I did the same thing 5 minutes before, and I got a reply from the developers, so I explain it to you ^^ It seems that they forgot to mark it in news
<Balaams_Miracle> kalon33: Rosetta, which i use mostly
<kiko> Balaams_Miracle, it should improve significantly (though not be fixed 100%)
<kiko> Balaams_Miracle, we have been working round the clock to fix those for a few months now, but they are /hard/
<kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: For the maintenance itself
<Balaams_Miracle> kiko: Kewl! (btw, sorry about my previous error, forgot to tab twice)
<kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: lol no problem ^^
<kiko> Balaams_Miracle, no worries!
<Balaams_Miracle> YAY! I'm forgiven! :-)
<kalon33> I've to go sleeping, it's about 1 AM here ^^ See you later, goodbye !
<Balaams_Miracle> I've just got an idea (it's probably not an original one, but still...) Wouldn't it be cool if there was some kind of app that would directly interface with LP translations that would automagically download all the translatable strings (including fuzzies and suggestions!) so that a translator would not have to wait for the page to load. This would especially be useful for people who have low bandwidth
<laga> Balaams_Miracle: or who don't like rosetta.
<Balaams_Miracle> laga: those too, i wasn't even thinking of them
#launchpad 2007-09-22
<Balaams_Miracle> I'm sometimes looking for a particular string in a package to (re)translate it really quick. Downloading and uploading the .po file would take too much time and the search does not look inside the packages.
<LaserJock> kiko: so is it ok for us to go through the Janitor closings and reopen? Will that mess anything up?
<Fujitsu> Balaams_Miracle: I think that's bug #44, but I can't check now.
<Balaams_Miracle> Having a program like i envision would download the first translation page of a package, then download the rest in the background. It would also allow for search and/or replace. Translated strings would be uploaded once an entire page (or perhaps package) is translated
<kiko> LaserJock, no, if you reopen and we do a pass that it should have been reopened, we'll just ignore and move on.
<Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: Really? I thought i wasn't being very original :-)
<Fujitsu> Balaams_Miracle: THe lack of searching, that is.
<Balaams_Miracle> Fujitsu: Would you use an app like the one i just dreamed up?
<Fujitsu> I do no translations, so no.
<Balaams_Miracle> LOL
<Balaams_Miracle> But if you did do translations?
<Odd_Bloke> bazaar.launchpad.net seems to be refusing connections on port 22...
<Fujitsu> I have no idea about the workflow, so I really don't know.
<Nafallo> Odd_Bloke: lp down for maintaince
<Fujitsu> Odd_Bloke: Launchpad is down for maintenance for around another 20 minutes.
<Odd_Bloke> Ah, OK.  Could that be in the topic?
<Nafallo> +spelling indeed
<Fujitsu> Odd_Bloke: You'd think.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: yeah, people need to write more non-English software so we can have a crack at translating ;-)
<Nafallo> Odd_Bloke: that's what I asked :-P
<Balaams_Miracle> Odd_Bloke: in the mean tme, let's have a chat-a-thon! :-)
<LaserJock> people read the topic??
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Heheh, yes.
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: I need the karma :-)
<Odd_Bloke> LaserJock: I did before I asked, to avoid being piled on by people who had read the topic. :p
<Balaams_Miracle> LaserJock: You can still translate (or correct the spelling of) the English packages
<LaserJock> I tried to find some en_GB I could translate to en_US but I didn't see much :-)
<Balaams_Miracle> LaserJock: How about en_US to en_GB? Or en_ZA?
<LaserJock> hmm, I *might* be able to do en_US to en_GB :-)
<LaserJock> but I generally don't touch Rosetta at all
<Balaams_Miracle> I wish there was an en_SILLY option... :-)
<LaserJock> I've tried to do some stuff on the dev end trying to get .pots put on LP and back down
<LaserJock> but even that hurt my brain
<sinzui> I want and en_hacker option, and a en_fudd too like google.
<Balaams_Miracle> After installing that, you'd get stuff like "WHEE! There was an error!"
<Balaams_Miracle> "Press any key to continue, dude."
<Balaams_Miracle> "Busted! That was an illegal option."
<Balaams_Miracle> The OK-buttomn should read "Hmmmkay..."
<Balaams_Miracle> And imagine the fun to be had whilst translating the default messaages to one's native language. When translating verbatim, they can yield some crazy results
<Rinchen>  ==> We're going to be down for a bit longer that 1 hour. Sorry for the inconvenience.
<Nafallo> Rinchen: topic please? :-)
<Fujitsu> What's being cherrypicked today?
<LaserJock> shesh, now what am I going to do? like real life stuff?!?! ;-)
<Nafallo> LaserJock: :-P
<laga> LaserJock: bzr diff etc still works with LP.
* ..[topic/#launchpad:Rinchen] : Launchpad is down for maintenance. Please stand by. :-)
<laga> no worries.
<Nafallo> cheers
<Rinchen> We were applying some final bug fixes today and found some results we didn't like in our QA check. We're addressing them now, hence the delay.
<kiko> Rinchen, actually, PostgreSQL didn't like our results either. :)
<kiko> man this has got to be a friday
<Rinchen> I was trying to be subtle.
* Rinchen smiles.
<kiko> no other days could be like this
<kiko> bad news from morning till evening
<Fujitsu> DB constraints wanted adjusting?
<Rinchen> At least we know our QA process works. :-)
<kiko> heh
<kiko> Fujitsu, actually, a broken trigger being tickled by some bad data in a bug in the 2000s range
<kiko> not sure which bug yet
<Fujitsu> Ah, nice.
<kiko> nice, as in, the sound it makes when you bite on a olive seed and your teeth goes crack!
<kiko> or pip
<kiko> your tooth.
<kiko> obviously I have had way too much lsd tonight
<Fujitsu> Quite obviously.
<ubotu> New bug: #141614 in launchpad "Launchpad pages not displaying properly in Internet Explorer 7 as of 9/21" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141614
<Fujitsu> We're up again?
<ubotu> New bug: #141597 in malone "bug janitor expires duplicate bug reports" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141597
<ubotu> New bug: #141604 in malone "Expiration janitor should put an expiration notice on bug page" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141604
<Rinchen> it's ubotu catching up
<Rinchen> although the LP page is up at the moment
<Fujitsu> It is, yes.
<Fujitsu> Not exactly fast, but it works.
* Rinchen walks over the guys huddled around the server to see if he can get a status report.
<Rinchen> ==> We're trying to identify and fix the bad data. If we can do it in the 15-20 minutes we may bring LP down again for a short pause. Stay tuned.
* ..[topic/#launchpad:Rinchen] : Launchpad may go down at 00:00 UTC  for further maintenance. Please stand by. :-)
<Rinchen> I need to step away for an hour or so. Kiko will provide you all with further updates.
<Fujitsu> Thanks Rinchen.
<Rinchen> We've identified the bad bug data. :-)
<kiko> yes
<kiko> it's good ole Bug #1567
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1567 in hwdb-client "Ubuntu Device Database" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1567 - Assigned to Oliver Grawert (ogra)
* Fujitsu must have cursed it when he rejected a task.
<kiko> Fujitsu, I noticed that. don't think I didn't. I saw your evil touch!
<Fujitsu> Heh.
<kiko> Fujitsu, your evil touch bled all the way to bug 1566.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 1566 in rosetta "Duplicated msgids and wrong exports prevents some .mo exports" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1566 - Assigned to Carlos Perell Marn (carlos)
* Fujitsu glares evilly at a few more bugs.
<sinzui> I found a bug two days ago that had a 6 meg description. I couldn't change the status because the query to get all the bug took too long.
<kiko> sinzui, yeah, we fixed that too
<sinzui> kiko: pity, that would have killed the expiration job
<kiko> one step at a time 
<ubotu> New bug: #141627 in launchpad "The fti update trigger blows up for bug 1566." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141627
<kiko> Fujitsu, see!
<Fujitsu> That syntax does look rather valid.
<gnomefreak> holy fudge janitor is working its butt off
<gnomefreak> i think ill save them for tomorrow when i have time to decide what stays and what can go
<hexmode> 'bout time it earns its keep
<gnomefreak> hexmode: once bugs are worked out it will ;)
<gnomefreak> kiko: did someone change janitor to only mark dupes and close?
<kiko> gnomefreak, no, it's not running any longer. you're getting bugmail that was sent out.
<sinzui> gnomefreak: No, it just turns out that a lot of what was expired were dupes
<gnomefreak> ah ok cool
* ..[topic/#launchpad:Rinchen] : Launchpad may go down between 01:00 - 02:00 UTC  for further maintenance. Please stand by. :-)
<kiko> okay.
<kiko> we're doing it!
<mthaddon> LP going down for maintenance in 15 minutes for 1 hour
<Fujitsu> Um, yay.
* ..[topic/#launchpad:Rinchen] : Launchpad may go down between 02:00 - 03:00 UTC  for further maintenance. Please stand by. :-)
<Fujitsu> Is this the FTI trigger fixing, or something else?
<Odd_Bloke> mthaddon: It seems to be down now?
<Odd_Bloke> Well, bazaar.launchpad.net is refusing SSH connections.
<Fujitsu> Haha.
<Odd_Bloke> So hopefully that's intended downtime. :p
<mthaddon> Odd_Bloke, yeah, that gets stopped as part of the rollout - sorry - by the timing I meant the web frontend for Launchpad
<Odd_Bloke> mthaddon: OK, no worries.
<Odd_Bloke> Just wanted to make sure it was expected. :p
<mthaddon> Odd_Bloke, thx for bearing with us
<Fujitsu> How many more downtime windows are we having today?
<mthaddon> Fujitsu, with luck, this will be the last - nasty DB issue caught us last time, but we believe we have it resolved now
<LaserJock> hmm, late nights in the DC
<Rinchen> indeed LaserJock 
<johanbr> "[Expired for Ubuntu because there has been no activity for 60 days.] " Is this some kind of joke?
<Fujitsu> johanbr: No, that's a feature introduced in Launchpad 1.1.9.
<kiko> Fujitsu, well, with some caveats.
<kiko> :)
<Fujitsu> Heh heh heh.
<kiko> johanbr, there's been a lot of discussion here already, it will go on-list on monday
<johanbr> Seems to be a feature from the "if I don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist" school of bug management.
<kiko> johanbr, it was meant to only touch inactive bugs; we'll fix them up on monday.
<Fujitsu> johanbr: It only happens if the bug had status Incomplete.
<sinzui> johanbr: Will these rules fix your bug:
<sinzui> -- Restore expired bugs to INCOMPETE (17) status
<sinzui> -- when any of the following are true:
<sinzui> -- A. The bug is a duplicate.
<sinzui> -- B. The bugtask has a milestone.
<sinzui> -- C. The bug has has a valid upstream bugtask.
<sinzui> -- D. The date_last_message < 60 days old.
* kiko high fives sinzui 
<johanbr> sinzui: No, they won't. It's not uncommon for bugs to go uncommented on for longer than sixty days.
<LaserJock> I think many of mine aren't covered by that
<LaserJock> but kiko is trying to convince me my bug triaging sucks ;-p
<johanbr> With rules like that, I am unlikely to waste my time reporting any more bugs.
<kiko> johanbr, in the Incomplete status?
<kiko> johanbr, can you give me an example where the bug should be Incomplete and still untouched for 60 days?
<kiko> LaserJock, if you have an example too, it'll help us tune.
<sinzui> johanbr: In addition to those new restrictions, the current ones are unassigned, INCOMPETE for 60 day without a bugwatch
<LaserJock> kiko: well, I have quite a few bugs that are olde than 60days that I don't want to close
<kiko> LaserJock, incomplete and unassigned and with no activity?
<LaserJock> yep
<kiko> and with no upstream bug?
<LaserJock> I don't assign, I don't do upstream
<LaserJock> I just fix when I get the chance
<johanbr> kiko: It wasn't clear from what sinzui wrote that the rules only apply to Incomplete bugs. In any case, there certainly are such bugs too. Here's one that I reported (but that seemed to later have been fixed manually): https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/61009
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 61009 in alsa-driver "No alsa sound through Motorola V300 phone" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  
<kiko> LaserJock, /incomplete/? that doesn't make sense
<LaserJock> kiko: well, I left it in incomplete because I wanted more info at the time
<LaserJock> you're thinking that I'd come back to it and mark it "Confirmed" within 60 days, right?
<johanbr> Another example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/52410
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 52410 in alsa-lib "Choppy sound/crash in ekiga" [Low,Invalid]  
<kiko> johanbr, that bug is certainly either Confirmed or New, it had no business being Incomplete.
* ..[topic/#launchpad:Rinchen] : https://launchpad.net | Next developer meeting: Thu 27 Sep 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<sinzui> johanbr: That bug was INCOMPLETE. should it have been CONFIRMED to begin with? DO I misunderstand that status os this bug
<ubotu> New bug: #141637 in launchpad "Updating FTI on one of our bugs causes PostgreSQL to SEGV" [Critical,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141637
<LaserJock> kiko: my concern is that this change seems to depend on the statuses being used correctly, right?
<johanbr> kiko,sinzui: Crimsun (Daniel Chen) claims that "Incomplete" is the correct status for "hasn't been fixed upstream yet".
<kiko> johanbr, well, at least that confusion will be cleared up now. I had no idea 
<kiko> johanbr, that's not correct, though. the correct status would be Confirmed.
<kiko> a special pending-upstream mechanism is something we have considered
<kiko> I'm not sure how it might work though
<kiko> anyway, let me get to the pizza shop before they close for the night
<kiko> I'll bbiab
<kiko> 23:28, wow
<kiko> 18h of work
<sinzui> LaserJock: That is the assumption. This has been an awful experience to see the variation in how people use Launchpad. Tee goal is to save the contributors time tracking down delinquent bug reports.
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> that's my concern
<LaserJock> the *idea* is nice
<LaserJock> but if the implementation depends on people doing things they aren't then you're gonna get problems
<LaserJock> for the work I do probably moving the status back to what it was before Incomplete would be the easiest
<sinzui> LaserJock: I'm preparing the restoration script now. Well vet the rules over the next 3 weeks to get this right.
<LaserJock> well, I think mostly the rules you've got going now will work for most people
<LaserJock> but it is going to force to use Incomplete better
<sinzui> LaserJock: I you fix your statuses if you wish, but If you can enjoy the weekend and contribute on other things do it. I'll fix this.
<LaserJock> sinzui: I'm not complaining, it forces me to retriage my bugs :-)
<LaserJock> which apparently I haven't done for 60 days :-)
<tonyyarusso> So with the new version release can we delete from PPA yet, or is that in the next one?
<sinzui> LaserJock: Indeed. Tags are the only flexible part of the Launchpad bugtracking system. Everything else does have a strict meaning.
<LaserJock> tonyyarusso: next one
<tonyyarusso> LaserJock: ah, ok - around a month-ish between, right?
<LaserJock> yep
<tonyyarusso> Okay
<LaserJock> just keep uploading over the top for now :-)
<kiko> tonyyarusso, with this version your packages will get removed when new packages come in. manual deletion is in the next cycle.
<tonyyarusso> kiko: ah, cool.  So now here's the kicker - if I have previous ones, would an upload that superceded all kill all of them, or only the immediately previous one?
<LaserJock> it would really be nice you LP had a doc on how *you* expect us to use the statuses
<LaserJock> *nice if
<LaserJock> and probably other things
<LaserJock> but in the abscence of any real guidlines, best practices, or policies it's not surprising that people just make it up as they go
<kiko> tonyyarusso, all of them.
<tonyyarusso> Yeah - I've still been pondering what the most intelligent versioning scheme is
<tonyyarusso> kiko: cool
<kiko> tonyyarusso, in fact, you don't need to upload -- process-death-row should delete them regardless of an upload.
<kiko> LaserJock, you're absolutely right. 
<tonyyarusso> kiko: cron job?
<kiko> tonyyarusso, yeah. I think cprov-out meant to run it manually today but I'm still waiting for the results
<tonyyarusso> kiko: nifty
<cprov-out> tonyyarusso: process-death-row will run again 3 AM BST for PPAs. What is exactly your problem ?
<tonyyarusso> cprov-out: Not exactly a problem, but I have some old versions that could be cleaned out - just wonder when they would by and such
<cprov-out> tonyyarusso: I've run it manually 6 hours ago, all the obsolete versions should be already removed from pool.
<kiko-zzz> hmmmm.
<cprov-out> tonyyarusso: as you can see in https://edge.launchpad.net/~tonyyarusso/+archive (*removed* sources)
<kiko-zzz> cprov-out, maybe we shouldn't list removed sources there, eh?
<LaserJock> sinzui: you happen to know how many bugs total Janitor closed today?
<kiko-zzz> LaserJock, 2000+
<tarheelcoxn> O.O
<kiko-zzz> sinzui knows the exact number.
<tarheelcoxn> *blinks*
<cprov-out> kiko-zzz:  maybe ... not by default.
<sinzui> LaserJock: No, I don't since the number changes daily. I have a close number in hand
<kiko-zzz> cprov-out, I don't think it makes sense to list removed packages there, ever.
<kiko-zzz> cprov-out, the fact that the package is removed is much less relevant to the PPA owner
<kiko-zzz> it's history
<LaserJock> hmm, would it be possible to have a "PPA History" page?
<sinzui> LaserJock: 2894 was the predicted number to close a few days ago.
<tonyyarusso> cprov-out: You're right... I didn't look that closely just now (just got home; remembered question from earlier)
<LaserJock> sinzui: k, that's not too bad
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, I'd like it available through some sort of history, or even just another section lower on the page, but yeah, I got confused.
<cprov-out> kiko-zzz: yes, maybe presenting it in some other page, as the new sourcepackage page do ... (I should have not resurrect this subject this late in the night <wink>...)
<kiko-zzz> heh
<kiko-zzz> zzz
* Hobbsee waves
* tarheelcoxn waves to Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> hiya tarheelcoxn 
<tarheelcoxn> :)
<tarheelcoxn> how goes?
<Hobbsee> it's going.  although my car isnt.
<Hobbsee> and i've jus tnoticed that the auto expiry mails dont have a specific header on them, to filter by.
<LaserJock> sinzui: do you know how many total open bugs there are total?
<LaserJock> Hobbsee: yeah, but it's got very predictable body text
<sinzui> LaserJock: No I do not
<Hobbsee> LaserJock: this is true
<ubotu> New bug: #141652 in launchpad "Active bugs get expired anyway (activity two days ago)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141652
<ScottK> I'm going to bed, but based on that bug ^^^ I'm going to go through all the expired mail I got pretty carefully.
<Dhakka> !list
<ubotu> I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
* Starting logfile irclogs/launchpad.log
<zasf> let's see if it works now
<zasf> Fujitsu: Accepted ssmtp 2.61-11~mz~ppa4 (source)
<zasf> Fujitsu: thanks!
<Fujitsu> zasf: No problem.
<ubotu> New bug: #143972 in launchpad "Package description maintenance" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/143972
* #launchpad  [freenode-info]  help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<leonel> There are packages  that are hard to backport to dapper  or feisty    can I have  my   created / backported packages in PPA  ?
<leonel> Not taking in count the dependencies  
<leonel> I mean   for clamav   I only need clamav  in dapper  and no other package  
<leonel> can  I have the newer  clamav package created by me or someone else  in ppa for dapper  and feisty  ?
<Kmos> leonel: clamav for dapper has clamav-team working on it
<Kmos> and bug already open
<leonel> Kmos:  yes we are 
<Hobbsee> leonel: you can create your own, yes.
<leonel> thanks  Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> leonel: you can create for any supported ubuntu release.
<Hobbsee> leonel: stick the release name (ie, dapper), in debian/changelog before building.
* Hobbsee thought clamav for dapper was done - or there was a newer version...
<leonel> Hobbsee:  dapper~ppa 
<Hobbsee> leonel: no, dapper.  dapper~ppa is not an ubuntu release.
<leonel> Hobbsee: ok thank you
<Hobbsee> leonel: eg network-manager (0.6.5-0ubuntu10) UNRELEASED; urgency=low
<Hobbsee> leonel: there, the version number is in the brackets, and the UNRELEASED is the release name.
<leonel> Hobbsee: so replace  UNRELEASED  to   dapper ?
<Hobbsee> leonel: yes
<leonel> there is a new clamav 
<Hobbsee> leonel: you'll need to version the feisty and dapper ones separately, btw.
<leonel> ok  2 packages 
<leonel> great
<Hobbsee> leonel: so i'd suggest use gutsyversion~feisty~ppa1, or something
<leonel> Hobbsee: ok
<Hobbsee> gah.   damned launchpad.
<Hobbsee> hiya asac 
<Hobbsee> okay, so how am i supposed to log in to the wiki section of launchpad?
<Hobbsee> oh, here we go.
<Hobbsee> if one goes form the main page, it will let you login.
<Hobbsee> oh yay, i cant edit the damned thing anyway.
<asac> hi Hobbsee 
<asac> Hobbsee: does NM still work for you?
<Hobbsee> asac: wpasupplicant downgraded WFM, at least at thi spoint.
<Hobbsee> yeah
<asac> any idea what knetworkmanager puts into its rc file?
<asac> (i remeber that you had to purge that once)
<Hobbsee> asac: yeah, i'll pastebin.
<Hobbsee> asac: http://pastebin.ca/706985
<Hobbsee> asac: it usually has more, iirc - that's because i've purged it, and havent connected to other networks since then
<asac> Hobbsee: is that $HOME/.knetworkmanagerrc ?
<Hobbsee> asac: /home/sarah/.kde/share/config/knetworkmanagerrc
<bootle> Hi folks, sorry if thats its faq, but I haven't found any right solution yet. I want to move a project to launchpad service. The project is hosted on sourceforge (svn). Is there a way to move the trunk of the project to launchpad without loosing the current commit history?
<ubotu> New bug: #144027 in launchpad "ppa amd64 build fails due to time mismatch" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144027
<stdin> bootle: I think this page explains how to do that https://help.launchpad.net/FeatureHighlights/BranchImports
<bootle> stdin, thanks I read it now.
<_gpg_> hello
<hexmode> hello, _gpg_
<_gpg_> is launchpad written from scrach or using any existing technology (zope ..)
<radix> It uses Zope3
<_gpg_> ty
<ubotu> New bug: #144038 in malone "launchpad incorrectly closes bugs while users are waiting on dev response" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144038
<alex-weej> uh :/
<alex-weej> launchpad "janitor" is closing lots of bugs that are still around it's just no-one cares to fix them
<alex-weej> this is annoying.
<ScottK> It's also closing ones that are actively being worked.
<bigon> hi, could some buildd admin have a look at https://launchpad.net/~telepathy/+archive/+build/397159 ? I think there is a bug in ppa or something
<laga> that's probably a timezone issue?
<bigon> laga: maybe but the build was successful on i386
<laga> maybe that build happened later
<bigon> only a few minutes
<bigon> is it possible to schedule a new build attempt?
<stdin> bigon: that's bug #144038
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144038 in malone "launchpad incorrectly closes bugs while users are waiting on dev response (dup-of: 141652)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144038
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141652 in launchpad "Active bugs get expired anyway (activity two days ago)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141652
<stdin> erm, no it isn't :p
<stdin> bug #144027
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144027 in launchpad "ppa amd64 build fails due to time mismatch" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144027
<bigon> thx
<bigon> and about a new build attempt?
<stdin> you see the retry build link on the left ?
* bigon hides
<bigon> stdin: thx
<ScottK> bigon: By definition that's a failure of U/I design.  You should file a bug.
<stdin> it's true, most people (including myself) don't see it until their told it's there
<ScottK> bigon: There: File the bug and stdin will confirm it.
<stdin> yep 
<stdin> I think this was mentioned on the mailinglist too, I'll look that post up...
<bigon> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/144057
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144057 in launchpad "Rebuild link not easily findable on ppa build log page" [Undecided,New]  
<ubotu> New bug: #144057 in launchpad "Retry build link not easily findable on ppa build log page" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144057
<ubotu> New bug: #144062 in launchpad-bazaar "The list of 'Recent revisions' should include the 'author' when appropriate" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144062
<ScottK> Would someone please help me figure out how to link Bug #141546 to the upstream bug.
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 141546 in libnet-dns-perl "make_query_packet() IP address detection broken" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141546
<ubotu> New bug: #144066 in malone "launchpad usability problems lose bugs" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144066
<pochu> ScottK: the package needs to be registered in launchpad. then click on 'Also affects', and update the package info. Then you'll be able to intro the url
<ScottK> Why do I have to do that?
<ScottK> Before I could just put the URL in
<ScottK> Gah.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: you shouldnt need to register
<ScottK> gnomefreak: I'd appreciate it if you can help me figure this out.
<gnomefreak> only for branching or making a prooject
<ScottK> It used to be easy.
<gnomefreak> ScottK: you have link to upstream bug?
<ScottK> Yes.  It's in the bug I mentioned above
<ScottK> I just put it in the body since I couldn't link it.
<gnomefreak> wtf happened
<gnomefreak> ok let me look at this a min
<ScottK> gnomefreak: I believe that wtf happened is they improved LP, but I'd like to get confirmation of that.
<gnomefreak> but we lost anyway of using upstream now
<ScottK> Unless upstream is in LP, yes.
<gnomefreak> since there shouldnt be a need to register an upstream project since upstream  doesnt use LP
<ScottK> Agreed.
<gnomefreak> doesnt/may not
<gnomefreak> ScottK: talk to kiki or one of the LP admins this was with 1.1.9 release but first time i saw it
<ScottK> There were related changes in the 1.1.9 release.  I'll file a bug.
<gnomefreak> trying something else
<ScottK> OK.  I'll wait.
<gnomefreak> ha
<gnomefreak> i found it
<ScottK> OK.  How do I do it.
<ScottK> ?
<gnomefreak> its added into distribution/package
<gnomefreak> not project anymore
<ScottK> Ah.
<ScottK> I'll look.
<gnomefreak> but now do i need to select a project?
<gnomefreak> or just paste url
<gnomefreak> ScottK: please let me know what you find out :)
<ScottK> That won't help you as you have to pick a distro that's on the list.
<ScottK> I tried that one already.
<ScottK> Thanks for looking.
<gnomefreak> sorry i would file bug than
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Would you please confirm Bug #144072
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 144072 in launchpad "No way to link to upstream bug if it's not registered as a project in LP" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144072
<gnomefreak> yes one sec
<gnomefreak> ScottK: done
<ScottK> gnomefreak: Thanks.
<gnomefreak> np
<ubotu> New bug: #144072 in launchpad "No way to link to upstream bug if it's not registered as a project in LP" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144072
<gnomefreak> ScottK: any clue how to make a branch using bzr+ssh
<ScottK> gnomefreak: No.  I've almost entirely managed to avoid bzr.  When I have to use it, I use it like it's svn.
<gnomefreak> well it keep complaing to me no such file or dir lol
<Hobbsee> bzr branch bzr+ssh://codebrowse.lp.net... iirc
<gnomefreak> ah i didnt see branch in the instructions
<Odd_Bloke> gnomefreak: Are you trying to branch from somewhere on Launchpad, or create a new branch in LP?
<gnomefreak> create a branch on LP from a package
<Odd_Bloke> Is it already versioned with Bazaar?
<gnomefreak> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: /home/gnomefreak/nspluginwrapper/nspluginwrapper-0.9.91.4/
<gnomefreak> bzr push bzr+ssh://gnomefreak@bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/nspluginwrapper/ubuntu-0.9.91.x
<gnomefreak> thats command and output. it should already be registered as it is a package in gutsy
<Odd_Bloke> gnomefreak: You'll want to 'bzr init', 'bzr add', 'bzr commit -m "Initial import."' before pushing it.
<gnomefreak> thats more steps than it used to be
<gnomefreak> by like 4
<gnomefreak> maybe 2
<gnomefreak> but ty it is pushing
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: add a " ." at the end.
<Hobbsee> >?
<Hobbsee> gnomefreak: oh, right, you're pushing now
<Hobbsee> oh urgh.  the janitor has caused the influx of mail.
<pochu> ScottK: I've moved 144072 to malone
<kiko> pochu, ScottK: that's a dupe. we'll make registering a product possible as part of adding a bugwatch for 1.1.10.
<Hobbsee> kiko: LP has screwed up.
<Hobbsee> kiko: i should be able to see https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/141378 and cant.  please fix, kthxbye :)
<Hobbsee> kiko: looks like subscribers are utterly screwed - the bug contacts are not listed as subscribers anymore.
<Hobbsee> let alone anyone in ~ubuntu-dev from being able to see it.
<Hobbsee> kiko: in future, please ensure that you do *not* release on a friday, particularly around ubuntu tribes, as there's no one around to clean up any of the mess from the new launchpad.
* Hobbsee now cannot grab security-related bugs for the gutsy beta, which she knows have been filed, as she cant see them, unless the filer happens to go and manually subscribe her.
* Hobbsee cant see any private bugs either, for the same reason.
<ScottK> kiko: Registering the product is completely infeasible for the thousands of packages in Universe.  I just want to be able to put the URL in.
<Hobbsee> ScottK: i suspect for anything non-critical, you'd better bug people during the week.
<ScottK> Hobbsee: I was responding to the comment above.  It's in the bug I filed
<Hobbsee> ah
<u-foka> Hy! Please help my, because I can't register:S
<u-foka> i tried with two different mail-s but neither of them work :S
<u-foka> anybody here???
<gnomefreak> u-foka: what does it say when it doesnt work
<gnomefreak> u-foka: it should give you a reason why it fails
<u-foka> i click on the link on the top of the page (register) fill in my email and wait, wait, wait...
<u-foka> 2 weeks ago
<u-foka> 1 with my alternate gmail address
<u-foka> and it's not in my spam folder ;)
<u-foka> double checked
<gnomefreak> u-foka: we just upgraded LP to 1.1.9 maybe it got caught in that? i would wait for one of the Lp guys to find out. otherwise try it now and see what happens
<u-foka> kk thanks, and how I can recognize lp guys? :D
<u-foka> ok, now it's arrived :)
<u-foka> thanks!
<gnomefreak> they will see you. id say mayube 50-75% of people in here are LP people but they are not always here (and its a weekend)
<u-foka> ok :) I see
<gnomefreak> u-foka: what was the you used to register?
<gnomefreak> ill look see if i can see it
<u-foka> my launchpad display name? it's u-foka too :)
<gnomefreak> ok give me a mint
<gnomefreak> min
<u-foka> okay, thanks!
<gnomefreak> https://edge.launchpad.net/~u-foka
<gnomefreak> your there
<gnomefreak> :)
<gnomefreak> you might have to remove edge. from that link
<gnomefreak> i dont know if edge was released but i think it was
<gnomefreak> u-foka: its using your freemail
<gnomefreak> email
<u-foka> tmm, then it's my first mail, arrived youst now?!
<u-foka> 8-)
<ubotu> New bug: #144101 in malone "Bug icons are not correct colour on bugs.lp.net homepage" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144101
<u-foka> it's really interesting 8-)
<u-foka> I can login with my gmail
<u-foka> but how launchpad find out my freemail? 8-)
<gnomefreak> if you go to the link i gave you on the left it says confirmed emails and it lists that one
<gnomefreak> thats the email you ised to sign up i guess
<gnomefreak> ised = used
<u-foka> doh... I see, launchpad registration is the same with shipit, right? I registred a shipit account some years ago :P
<gnomefreak> u-foka: yes
<gnomefreak> ship it uses your LP account
<u-foka> lol then this is the reason why i can't get a new reg mail :P
<gnomefreak> :)
<nenolod> greetings.
<nenolod> https://launchpad.net/audacious/ is registered to somebody who has never been affiliated with the project (I am however marked as it's driver)
<nenolod> i would like to change that so that I can set up rosetta
<nenolod> (and dissociate it from gstreamer, as we don't have any affiliation with gstreamer)
<ScottK> !weekend | nenolod
<ubotu> nenolod: It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
<ScottK> This probably isn't the best time to be asking FYI.
<nenolod> ScottK, yes i know. i was just hoping :P
<ScottK> OK.
<nenolod> at any rate, if nobody does anything about it, i'll just ask again on Monday ;)
<ubotu> New bug: #144109 in malone "please reopen all auto-closed bugs of ubuntu mozilla packages and network-manager and opt-out those packages from auto closing incomplete bugs" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144109
<tehk> Does launchpad somehow modify release tarballs?
<tehk> I have a release tarball that is meant to be drug into an applications install window, like a gnome theme, and after hosting it on launchpad under the correct release it no longer seems to be a standard  tar.gz
<bersace> Hi all
<bersace> Is it plan to have powerpc support in ppa ?
<bersace> i.e. will Xen be available on powerpc in the future ?
<bersace> my upload is accepted, but seems not queued
<bersace> do i need to do something ?
<bersace> maybe this is due to a previous FTBFS package version ?
<tehk> Is there any reason launchpad modifies tarballs after they are uploaded? I get different md5 sums
<soren> tehk: Which one?
<tehk> soren, as in? I am speak in general about a project of mine.
<soren> tehk: I'd just like an example of a tarball that launchpad is supposed to have changed.
<tehk> https://launchpad.net/awn-py-applets/+download the quit-applet
<soren> tehk: And your local copy has a different md5sum?
<tehk> soren, yes it does
<soren> tehk: Could you send me your local copy? I'd like to see how they're different.
<soren> tehk: soren@ubuntu.com
<ubotu> New bug: #144120 in launchpad "tarballs are changed when uploaded as release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144120
<tehk> sent
<soren> Oh.. I think I know what's going on.
<soren> tehk: What is the md5sum of your local version?
<tehk> 5f0e84c680968c512ff2c26b158d80f4  Quit-Applet.tar.gz
<tehk> 8441ca05f2935e621ca07ec74a7cb484  Quit-Applet.tar.gz
<soren> Which one is local?
<tehk> first is local, second is downloaded
<soren> When I download with wget, I get the first one too.
<soren> It's not launchpad doing it. It's your browser.
<tehk> ah so sorry
<tehk> thats odd
<soren> Launchpad tells the browser it's gzipped.
<soren> ...and the browser ungzips it.
<tehk> Thanks soren. 
<soren> np
<soren> It might still be considered a bug, though.
<soren> Now you just have an explanation :)
<tehk> soren, well I refocused my bug report and pointed it at epiphany instead. The expected browser behavior should be a bit different - like saving then opening the file.
<leonel> is this good  for    a   ppa   :   clamav (0.91.2-0ubuntu1~ppa1) dapper; urgency=low
<synic> how do I replace a .pot file in the translations tab for a series?
<synic> is there any way at all to update a .pot file for a project?  I can't find it anywhere
#launchpad 2007-09-23
<ubotu> New bug: #144174 in malone ""Launchpad Janitor" for Bugs v. "Launchpad Answers Janitor"" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144174
<ubotu> New bug: #144190 in soyuz "New distrosourcepackage page has misleading dates in version history" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144190
<ubotu> New bug: #144194 in rosetta "Source package +translate page asks me to log in even if I already have" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144194
<italian> hello
<italian> any1 alive here
<italian> i need help at launchpad
<italian> no 1 help here or wat ?
<martalli_> Is launchpad open-source or available to companies if they would like to use an installation for their own purposes?
<martalli_> italian: What do you need?
<italian> i made account on launchpad
<italian> i recieved email
<italian> when i follow link ... nothing happen .. it doesn't activate
<italian> it links me to page make new account
<radix> martalli_: It's not open source, but for commercial use you should contact Elliot Murphy (elliot@canonical.com)
<martalli_> radix: are there similar programs in the oss arena?
<martalli_> italian: Maybe you are not getting the entire link (such as if the line is overrunning your screen)
<radix> martalli_: depends what features you need
<radix> apparently the old open source version of sourceforge was forked to a project called "Savane"...
<martalli_> My Dadis looking fo a program that will help him follow issues on engineering (structural, mech, etc) projects and be able to link to dhort discussions, emails and such 
<radix> dhort?
<martalli_> I was thinking egroupware, but then I showed him launchpad he thought that fit many of the requirements that he was thinking of
<martalli_> radix: woops - short
<radix> hm
<radix> I don't really understand that bit
<radix> what do you mean, "be able to link to short discussions"? link from where?
<martalli_> I mean that they want something like a wiki, where they can record progress of projects, and be able to record pertinent things like emails or communications.  My Dad liked the idea of launchpad being able to assign tasks to individuals and track the status of the projects or individual issues as they arise
<martalli_> This would be something that would just stay within his company
<martalli_> Hosted on a local/LAN webserver
<radix> oh, ok, a wiki
<martalli_> Yes, much like a wiki, but more of a purpose-driven wiki
<radix> a purpose-driven wiki is just a wiki that was put to a purpose, right? :) or are you thinking of something with more enforced structure?
<radix> I'm just trying to figure out whether Launchpad actually offers this feature for you.
<radix> Launchpad doesn't offer any sort of wiki hosting or web content hosting right now.
<martalli_> radix - that's right
<martalli_> radix: Is thaqt right?  It runs on the internet off a webserver, so I guess I just figured that it was a variation of a wiki or discussion group software
<radix> ... nope...
<radix> not everything that is run on the internet off a webserver is discussion or wiki software :-)
<martalli_> Well, maybe I should just install egroupware and give it a closer look
<martalli_> lol I know.  I am no expert, but I run a joomla website and realize that most websites simply are a frontend for a database of whatever different types.
<ubotu> New bug: #144246 in launchpad "Pulldown menu headers should be multiline if necessary" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144246
<popey> 7~
<ubotu> New bug: #144257 in soyuz "[PPA]  some packages not queued/built" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144257
<synic> anyone here?
<pochu> synic: 92 people... what do you need?
<pochu> a little less if you don't count bots ;)
<synic> I've uploaded a messages.pot to be translated, but it's now out of date.
<synic> any way I can update it?
<ScottAS> Hello. Is it possible to talk to an Administrator?
<lifeless> ScottAS: best way to get an admin is to file a question on the launchpad project
<ScottAS> OK. Thank you.
<ScottAS> lifeless: I would be able to ask a question however my question is about my Login details in the first place! :D
<lifeless> ScottAS: have you tried password recovery?
<lifeless> ScottAS: what are you wanting the admin to do?
<ubotu> New bug: #144291 in launchpad "Bug nickname feature is hard to discover and use" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144291
<ScottAS> lifeless: The E-Mail Address associated with my Account no longer exists therefore I can't reset my Account Password.
<lifeless> can you create a new account?
<ScottAS> I'd rather not, in fact I'd rather have my Account removed.
<lifeless> and then ask for it to be merged with the old account?
<lifeless> uh interesting, I can see the challenge then
<lifeless> unfortunately its sunday for most of the admins
<lifeless> or *very* early monday
<pochu> The question there is, how to prove you own the other account?
<lifeless> indeed
<ScottAS> The E-Mail Address used for my Account was via a personal Domain.
<siretart> Uploading to ubuntu (via ftp to upload.ubuntu.com):
<siretart> Connection failed, aborting. Check your network (111, 'Connection refused')
<siretart> launchpad's down?
<geser> browsing bugs works
<lifeless> there is some admin going on right now
<lifeless> backend stuff only, main service is not affected
<siretart> ok
<elmo> ** the Launchpad website is going down for 5 minutes for emergency maintenance
* ..[topic/#launchpad:elmo] : https://launchpad.net | Next developer meeting: Thu 27 Sep 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39 || launchpad.net down for 5 minutes
<SteveA> thanks elmo 
<gnomefreak> elmo: thanks fort the warning
<gnomefreak> s/fort/for
* ..[topic/#launchpad:elmo] : https://launchpad.net | Next developer meeting: Thu 27 Sep 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<gnomefreak> that was fast
<Nafallo> that was four minutes :-)
<Nafallo> topic to topic :-)
<gnomefreak> i went to 2 book stores looking for a book here in US there were more ubuntu books on shelves than fedora/suse/RHEL
<SteveA> gnomefreak: no way!?  got a photo?
<gnomefreak> SteveA: i will next run there
<SteveA> cool
<gnomefreak> i was like holy crap
* gnomefreak was looking for official ubuntu 2nd edition and found about 10 of them
<gnomefreak> i was just informed its still down
<gnomefreak> its == LP
<gnomefreak> yep it is
<gnomefreak> Ubulette: i guess hes still working on it
<Martinp23> edge.lp was down for me just then
<gnomefreak> maybe waiting to refresh
<Martinp23> just timing out, it seems.  Main lp site still works
<Martinp23> ff says "failed to estabilish connection to server"
<gnomefreak> yeah
<lifeless> hi SteveA 
<elmo> looking into it
<gnomefreak> elmo: thank you :)
<Martinp23> thanks elmo :)
<elmo> should all be back now, sorry about that
<gnomefreak> elmo: it is ty for the quick responce
<lifeless> the price of security is eternal patching
<DaveMorris> Hi, I've been using thye ppa system now for a couple of weeks expect for I'm now getting 'Connection failed, aborting. Check your network (111, 'Connection refused')' error, although it worked fine last night.  Anyone got any ideas?
<lifeless> DaveMorris: there was some emergency maintenance a few minutes ago
<lifeless> DaveMorris: is it still not working for you?
<DaveMorris> no
<DaveMorris> still no working
<lifeless> elmo: ^
<DaveMorris> I was about to ask who I need to speak to about it
<lifeless> elmo: any chance its still what you were doing, or should I point DaveMorris at the usual 'I have a problem' channels ?
<gnomefreak> theres i have a problem channels?
<pkern> Is it possible to contact people like https://launchpad.net/~elias-asb-online who have no email address listed?
<gnomefreak> pkern: find out thier irc nick and look for them
<pkern> Hm, otoh it could be deduced from the account name.
<pkern> And blueprints could only be removed via admin request?
#launchpad 2008-09-15
<seiflotfy> hey guys
<seiflotfy> can some1 help me with bzr brachnes and ppas
<seiflotfy> how can i create a ppa package out of a bzr branch
<RAOF> seiflotfy: There's currently no special integration of bzr with the PPA system.
<RAOF> seiflotfy: So, you create a tarball from your bzr branch and package as normal.  bzr-builddeb can help with this, though.
<seiflotfy> i am trying to create a package out of mayanna
<seiflotfy> can any1 help me with that
<RAOF> !packagingguide
<ubottu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
<RAOF> That's a good first start.
<Hobbsee> people, launchpad is getting /.'d.
<RAOF> Great.  Why?
<lifeless> firefox branding
<RAOF> Urgh.
<lifeless> Hobbsee: is it notixably slow?
<wgrant> Yeah. Oops.
<wgrant> It is being fairly slow, but not as slow as I would expect.
<RAOF> So we now have a huge bug with a hojilion OMG! responses?
<wgrant> And a huge forum thread. And a nasty Mozilla. A bad combination.
<wgrant> lifeless: It's not Firefox branding. It's Firefox's EULA.
<Hobbsee> lifeless: well, it always is very slow for me, but it doesn't seem to be slower than usual, at the moment.
<lifeless> wgrant: uhm, the EULA is tied to having the binary branded with the upstream branding
<lifeless> wgrant: If you're trying to be pedantic, FAIL. If you're saying I'm wrong, you haven't read enough about the issue :)
<wgrant> lifeless: It seems that the only useful clause is unrelated to the branding.
<wgrant> But the main complaint is about the EULA.
<wgrant> The EULA may be tied to the branding, but the branding isn't what is having hate thrown at.
<lifeless> well, there's lots of hate to throw around
<wgrant> There is.
<wgrant> I guess there are benefits to /. readers not RTFA.
<jetole> evening all, is there launchpad op who can address post https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/269656/comments/144 in regards to post https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/269656/comments/139 on bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/269656
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269656 in firefox-3.0 "AN IRRELEVANT LICENSE IS PRESENTED TO YOU FREE-OF-CHARGE ON STARTUP" [High,Confirmed]
<jetole> ?
<wgrant> I didn't want my bug to disintegrate into such a thing :(
<wgrant> jetole: You could file a ticket at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<wgrant> I can't see any ~admins around now.
<jetole> wgrant: thanks
<pc> I have an account on Launchpad, but seem to be unable to log in (reset password, clicked on link, changed password...still can't log in) any suggestions?
<wgrant> Grrr, and now my other bug has people commenting simply "lol fail"
<thumper> pc: what is your lp id?
<pc> thumper: ThinkOpenly
<thumper> pc: I have to nip out and collect the girls from school, but back soon (and possibly help)
<pc> thumper: actually, I got it to work just now from a different (non-Ubuntu) system
<pc> not sure if it's a FF3 issue or what
<thumper> pc: could be a cookie issue
<pc> thumper: that's my guess as well, not sure how to correct
<pc> et voila!  launchpad.net was blocked.
<pc> next question: is there any way to reopen an "invalid" bug, if it is not mine?
<RAOF> pc: Yes.  Set its status to something not 'invalid.
<pc> RAOF: thanks.  didn't think I had the authority to do that, and didn't see the pulldown arrow.  done!
<gour> morning
<gour> some of my team-members are interested about copyright/license issues for blueprints at LP. which license applies to them?
<spiv> gour: you've seen https://help.launchpad.net/TermsofUse ?
<spiv> gour: also, note that launchpad doesn't host the blueprints, it just keeps track of blueprints.
<spiv> gour: so I don't see any way that using Launchpad could affect the copyright of your blueprints.  (IANAL, etc)
<gour> thanks
<gour> yes, i've seen the above URL, but some members are cautious because of translation-BSD issue while the project is GPL
<gour> is there any plan to enhance search for Blueprints, like filter by some attribute etc. ?
<jamesh> gour: the issue with translations is that Launchpad provides a way to use translations entered for one project as suggestions for another.
<jamesh> this means your project benefits from work done on other projects if there are similar strings
<jamesh> if all the translations entered on LP for your project were GPL licensed, then they couldn't be used as suggestions for GPL-incompatible projects (e.g. MPL, etc)
<gour> jamesh: i understand and have no objection if other projects use my translation. however some devs do not like mixing two licenses in the same project
<gour> jamesh: but if LP is used for translating, than they must be BSD?
<jamesh> gour: given that the requirements of the BSD license are essentially a subset of the GPL requirements, there isn't anything wrong with licensing your project as a whole under the GPL
<ajaksu> gour: GPL has no problem with GPL
<ajaksu> oops, with BSD
<jamesh> the only real effect of the translation licensing is that translations entered for your project may end up being used for other projects
<jamesh> (which hopefully you're fine with, since the reverse also happens)
<jamesh> now, there isn't really any analogue of this for blueprints
<jamesh> so there is no similar licensing requirement
<gour> jamesh: so, blueprints are solely under the project's license?
<jamesh> gour: given that the text is hosted externally, it can be whatever you want.
<jamesh> there is no set requirement.
<gour> thank you
 * gour hopes someone will take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/270024 today
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270024 in malone "signed bug report with attachment sent vie email fails as 'unsigned'" [Undecided,New]
<\sh> guys, does anything speak against an update of launchpadlib in intrepid? (0.1<some bzr rev> -> 0.2<some bzr rev>)
<jml> I haven't heard anything one way or the other.
<\sh> I'll ask barry...but we need to do it asap...httplib2 is hanging there because of new lplib :)
 * buttnutt junk punches everyone
<buttnutt> whhaaaaannnn
<visik7> I've some problem using launchpad bug interface: how can I see all the bugs related only to the development branch ?
<visik7> they are all mixed
 * buttnutt spreads for visik7
<buttnutt> mmm
<buttnutt> big boi
<visik7> hu ?
<imyojimbo> hi, i read the user manual for launchpad, but i still couldnt get the workflow of a project part. the hirarchy between seiries, branches, milestones, etc. and also the conventions, like how is it recomanded that i layout my project.
 * buttnutt gonna junk punch imyojimbo
 * buttnutt bends and speads for imyojimbo...will you be my jimbo??
<buttnutt> I need some jimbo in my mangina
<buttnutt> mmmmm
<buttnutt> yummy
<buttnutt> Hi spads
<buttnutt> such a nasty little nickname
<imyojimbo> ?
<jamesh> buttnutt: Please be civil
<imyojimbo> can some 1 help me with this
<spiv> imyojimbo: what in particular do you want to do?
<buttnutt> ok @jamesh
<spiv> imyojimbo: generally you can ignore features like milestones until you want to use them.
<imyojimbo> if we can simulate a project development being started. can u describe how will it look like
<buttnutt> check this out fuckers
<imyojimbo> i have one series, called trunk
<spiv> imyojimbo: maybe the simplest thing to do would be to register a project on https://staging.launchpad.net and just experiment with it there.
<spiv> jamesh: setting a ban in case buttnutt comes back might be a good idea?
<imyojimbo> yes, but i dont understand how it should look like
<spiv> imyojimbo: well, how it looks like depends on how you want to manage your project :)
<imyojimbo> i know. but i understand there are conventions, and there are ways ppl use all the time
<spiv> imyojimbo: for simple or new projects, you probably just want to just have a single series.
<imyojimbo> why will i want another series?
<spiv> Most projects have a "trunk" which is where active development happens.
<spiv> Some projects will make releases that maintained separately from the trunk.
<imyojimbo> and then merge the changes back?
<spiv> For instance, there are multiple supported releases of Python
<jamesh> spiv: if he comes back being and is still an arsehole, it'd be worth banning him.  If the warning is enough, I'd prefer to leave it.
<imyojimbo> i see a project that has a trunk series and also a "devel" series, both for development, why
<spiv> Most development activity happens on the trunk, which is where development of Python 2.6 is currently happening.  But there are also maintenance releases of earlier releases, e.g. Python 2.5
<spiv> So if Python used Launchpad, they'd have a 2.5 series (with releases called 2.5, 2.5.1, 2.5.2, etc) and a 2.6 series, and so on.
<gour> spiv: what about 3.0 series :-)
<spiv> gour: "and so on" :)
<spiv> imyojimbo: you'd have to ask that project
<spiv> imyojimbo: possibly it's just a harmless mistake :)
<gour> hopefully 3.0 will be adopted prior to html-5 :-D
<imyojimbo> maybe its for public development and will be merged with the trunk when its ready
<imyojimbo> is that reasonable?
<spiv> imyojimbo: basically, if there's concurrent work on multiple versions of the project, then you probably want to use series to help you track that work.
<jamesh> imyojimbo: a good rule of thumb is to consider whether a release is likely to have more than one direct successor version.  Using Python as an example, both 2.5.1 and 2.6 were derived from 2.5
<jamesh> so you have two release series
<spiv> imyojimbo: if you're unsure, especially if it's a new project, I'd recommend just having a single series to start with.  You can always add another one later.
<imyojimbo> so for start, i use the trunk series, and i start defining milestones for each version? and when i have something ready and stable i will create a new series? with the new version as its name
<jamesh> imyojimbo: one way to think about it is this: Lets say that you've released version X of your software and have started work on version X+1.  If someone reports a bug affecting the released version, would you fix it for version X+1, or put out a bug fix only point release branched from the previous release?
<jamesh> if you're only planning on doing a linear series of releases, then you can probably go with a single release series.
<imyojimbo> i will fix the bug in the x+1 version, right?
<jamesh> yes.  But are you likely to put out a release containing the bug fix but none of the other features you've been working on for X+1?
<imyojimbo> oh, so, by using a series i capture a snapshot of the branches, when a release is made, and i plan supoorting it. and while i keep development on the trunk and new features, i will fix bugs for the older versio in its series and merge it back to the trunk?
<jamesh> The idea here is to try and model how you develop your project rather than the other way around.
<jamesh> if you do multiple series of releases in parallel (development + maintenance series), then use multiple series
<jamesh> if you are just doing a single series of releases, then use one series.
<spiv> imyojimbo: pretty much.  Although series don't exactly "capture a snapshot of the branches", it's more they give you a way to say "here's the branch where work on this series happens".
<gour> imyojimbo: do you use bzr?
<imyojimbo> launchpad only works with bzr.. so yes
<imyojimbo> i know i can link it to other repos i think, but i really wanna keep it simple
<gour> how does your workflow look like?
<gour> centralized, distributed...
<gour> as jamesh said...if you have clear workflow for developing your project, LP will assist you in it
<imyojimbo> im just about to start development. i pretty much want to define a version milestones (bugs, blueprints), and then work untill i get reach that milestone. and call it a version. then i define the next one
<jamesh> imyojimbo: in general, I'd stick with a single series until you find you are doing parallel releases
<jamesh> you'll probably know when it is appropriate.
<spiv> imyojimbo: regardless of launchpad, there's extra effort involved in keeping multiple active lines of development rather than just one
<gour> imyojimbo: start with devloping code and make e.g. 'experimental' branch...milestones and releases will come along the way
<spiv> imyojimbo: so until you have evidence that it's worth it for you, I'd suggest starting with just a single 'trunk' series and making releases directly from that.
<imyojimbo> ok, thanks guys
<imyojimbo> ill do that
<imyojimbo> btw , what do u think of bzr comparing to svn for example
<spiv> I find bzr much more helpful than svn.
<gour> imyojimbo: no need to think of svn when using bzr ;)
<spiv> But I'm a bzr developer, so maybe that's not surprising :)
 * gour even uses bzr-svn to fetch from svn repos
<imyojimbo> lol
<spiv> Making and merging branches, and working offline are both much better with bzr IMO.
 * gour is not bzr dev, but bzr satisfied customer
<imyojimbo> is there a plugin for VS fo bzr?
<gour> imyojimbo: before bzr i used darcs cause i was never able to grok cvs/bzr
<gour> s|cvs/bzr/cvs/svn
<gour> ahh...s|cvs/bzr|cvs/svn
<gour> imyojimbo: dunno. there are qbzr and bzr-gtk gui
<frk2> helloall
<frk2> i had some questions regarding best practices at launchpad
<imyojimbo> ok, ill try those
<imyojimbo> thanks
<gour> imyojimbo: see http://bazaar-vcs.org/TortoiseBzr too. no experience here 'cause i'm on linux
<spiv> frk2: ask away :)
<frk2> if I have a project X and two branches - trunk and 0.5.0 release, for example - and I wanted to take the 'workflow with human gatekeeper' approach, do i ask all 'other' developers to register their own branches and have them merge to this one?
<spiv> frk2: yeah
<spiv> frk2: if you have the trunk and 0.5.0 branches in Launchpad 'owned' by the gatekeeper, then only that account will be able to commit/push to them.
<spiv> frk2: and then the other developers can ask that gatekeeper to merge their changes, e.g. by registering merge proposals in Launchpad, or by using "bzr send" to a mailing list, or whatever you like.
<cjwatson> Hi, I'm trying to fix the lp:casper branch following bug 246880. I've renamed ~ubuntu-core-dev/casper/trunk to ~ubuntu-core-dev/casper/trunk.old. Could somebody please make sure that the public mirror area for http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/casper/trunk is properly cleared out, so that I can push a new branch there without having to worry about bugs caused by operations on the old broken branch?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246880 in bzr "ghost fetch issue: fail when fetching a text referenced by a live revision introduced by a ghost revision" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246880
<cjwatson> OK, never mind the above; spiv confirmed to me on #bzr that that isn't necessary
<frk2> spiv, sorry i had to run- got your messages. Thats exactly what I thought you are supposed to do.
<spiv> frk2: cool
<frk2> spiv, My only question is that say developer X who does not have write access to the TRUNK release where does he maintain his repo on launchpad?
<frk2> does he push it to a new branch under his name or do i create a new branch for him in my project?
<frk2> if the branch doesnt exist on launchpad- i cannot exactly ask for 'changes to be merged' right?
<frk2> ofcourse I can just use the 'send' approach- but what if i decide on using the selective 'merge' approach - looks cleaner
<frk2> spiv, just trying to understand the workflow here- if there is a document online explaining this please point me there
<spiv> frk2: he cann just push it to his own area on Launchpad, yes.
<spiv> frk2: you can easily get Launchpad to mirror branches hosted elsewhere, btw.
<frk2> spiv, im hosting it there though
<frk2> spiv, the 'own' area in +junk doesnt give the option of merging to another branch though
<spiv> frk2: ah
<spiv> frk2: +junk is only good for junk :)
<spiv> frk2: make a real project if you want to do project-managementy things like tracking bugs and merge requests :)
<frk2> I have a real project :)
<frk2> but what abount random contributors?
<spiv> Oh, you realise that anyone can upload to ~THEIR_USERID/YOUR_PROJECT/* ?
<frk2> I get it i get it :)
<frk2> spiv, thanks for clarifying that
<spiv> frk2: e.g. you could push up a branch to lp:~frk2/bzr/my-branch right now :)  (assuming I've guessed your user id correctly)
<frk2> spiv, so thats an acceptable practice? its cool to have as many branches as developers i guess
<spiv> Definitely.
<spiv> With a distributed VCS, anyone can make a branch.
<frk2> okay- slightly different from the SVN way, but makes 10x more sense
<spiv> And with an open source project, people should be able to make their own branches.
<spiv> Right, it's much nicer than the SVN way, because you don't need to give someone commit rights to your repo for them to be able to use the same tools as the core devs.
<frk2> exactly
<frk2> awesome
<frk2> spiv, thanks!
<spiv> frk2: you're welcome
<frk2> spiv, one more question :)
<frk2> whats the best way of STARTING a new contributors branch
<frk2> should i simply propose the main TRUNK branch to HIS branch?
<frk2> propose for merging
<spiv> frk2: I'm not sure what you mean by starting
<frk2> spiv, a new developer comes in and creates his own branch
<spiv> frk2: If I were a new contributor to your project, I'd start by just doing "bzr branch lp:project"
<spiv> frk2: when I've done something interesting, then I'd do "bzr push lp:~spiv/project/my-cool-thing"
<frk2> exactly- and then push the code to your own personal branch
<frk2> yeah
<spiv> frk2: then let you know about it, e.g. propose it for merging back to lp:project
 * gour thinks DVCS rocks
<frk2> okay. I thought i could avoid that step by simply pushing code directly in his empty branch
<spiv> frk2: no action required on your part :)
<frk2> nevermind :)
<frk2> i'll do it that way
<frk2> I hope launchpad is 'safe' for hosting your hard work? :) amazing service i must say, plain beautiful and extremely usable
<spiv> frk2: It hasn't eaten my data yet ;)
<spiv> frk2: thanks for the kind words!
<frk2> yeah- we had our own mantis, svn setup which we are taking to launchpad now
<frk2> wow. 21 minutes and still 'scanning' :)
<frk2> is that normal?
<beuno> frk2, it takes a while sometimes
<beuno> you can cheat and see the revisions before, if you really want to
<frk2> nah i just wanna test the 'propose merge and approve' bit
<imyojimbo> guys, is there any way to change my project short uniqe name?
<beuno> frk2, you should be able to propose a merge without it being scanned
<beuno> imyojimbo, as in, rename it?
<imyojimbo> yes
<beuno> well, if kiko-zzz or Rinchen happen to be around, they can do it
<beuno> if not, you can file a question requesting it:  http://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<imyojimbo> ok, thanks
<beuno> :)
<frk2> beuno, yeah but it doesnt show any commit information when you go to approve it. just wanted to test the whole 'review' process. guess i'll wait :)
<beuno> frk2, ah, right. Well, it usually takes a few minutes, but sometimes it gets backed up a bit, and takes a while longer. What's the URL?
<imyojimbo> is there a way to delete teams?
<frk2> just got done
<frk2> :)
<frk2> 37 minutes :P
<beuno> imyojimbo, same process, you need to file a question
<frk2> its okay i aint complaining- it its normal its normal :)
<beuno> frk2, see, it felt the pressure
<beuno> it's not "normal", it usually takes very few minutes
<frk2> beuno, i wish all software were so considerate about our emotions
<frk2> :)
<beuno> well, it's hard to teach emotions to software!  ;)
<frk2> thats a good thing, trust me :)
<frk2> you can always trust machines
<frk2> they are with you till the end, literally :)
<beuno> :)
<frk2> how can i appoint multiple people to be able to commit to my branch?
<frk2> currently only i can commit, even though multiple people are subscribed
<beuno> frk2, you create a team
<intellectronica> frk2: you can do that if the branch belongs to a team
<beuno> and upload the branch as the team
<beuno> hi intellectronica  :)
<intellectronica> hi beuno
<frk2> doing so
<frk2> beuno, thanks!
<beuno> frk2, welcome'
<Rafik> hello all.. I'm a new ubuntu member waiting for the @ubuntu.com email address, on the wiki pages it says : "it's will be set up automatically and will be based on your main Launchpad ID" but it's not working
<beuno> Rafik, it takes a few days. How long have you been a member?
<Rafik> beuno, since 4 days
<Rafik> oups.. 6 days.. since September 9th
<beuno> Rafik, ah, quite a while
<beuno> elmo, ping?
<Rafik> here is my LP page : https://launchpad.net/~rafik
<Hobbsee> Rafik: how are you testing it?
<Rafik> Hobbsee, sending mails to my contact email address on LP
<Rafik> oups
<Rafik> sorry.. sending mail to rafik@gmail.Com
<Rafik> rafik@ubuntu.com
<Hobbsee> Rafik: from your gmail?
<Hobbsee> (and check your email)
<Rafik> and checking in the gmail address yes
<Rafik> (sorry, i'm lost between two conversations..)
<stgraber> I just sent a test e-mail and it wasn't rejected by Canonical's mail server
<Hobbsee> stgraber: same here.
<Hobbsee> Rafik: gmail does weird things when you send mail to yourself.  it's probably marked it as spam.
<Rafik> I just received your two mails
<Hobbsee> then it's working :)
<Rafik> it's not in spam.. I checked there
<Rafik> strange.. my test mails from this gmail account doe not arrive, from other yes
<Hobbsee>  gmail does weird things when you send mail to yourself.
<Rafik> yes, seems to be like that.
<Rafik> Hobbsee, stgraber thank you
<Hobbsee> you're welcome
<stgraber> np
<kiko-phone> barry, ping?
<kiko-phone> barry, imyojimbo wants to rename https://edge.launchpad.net/~mb-core-team -- can you chat with him a bit
<barry> kiko-phone: otp, done in a few minutes
<frk2> awesome. we've moved to launchpad completely
<frk2> how do populate the 'downloads' part of the project? cant seem to find a way to upload/make releases
<beuno> frk2, you have to create a series
<beuno> and, a release
<beuno> you can upload files to releases
<frk2> register a release i guess
<frk2> working on it
<frk2> done
<frk2> thanks for all the help guys!
<beuno> frk2, welcome to Launchpad  :)
<frk2> checkout the project you helped register: search for zivios in launchpad. Thanks!
<barry> imyojimbo: i responded to your pvtmsg
<frk2> uploading the first release file now
<mok0> How do I add a new blueprint? Can't find it in the new UI
<mok0> When I go to the Blueprints tab, I can only see existing ones
<mok0> It would be logical to also be able to create a new one there
<beuno> mok0, to what project?
<beuno> what URL are you looking at?
<mok0> Just my personal page
<beuno> mok0, right, you add blueprints to projects, so you have to go to the project's page
<mok0> I see
<mok0> Thanks
<beuno> I agree we could offer you to create one from other places as well
<beuno> so I'll file a bug for that
<mok0> Cool, thanks
<DnaX> anyone can solve this problem? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/44656
<DnaX> require DB patch
<ahasenack> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/smart/+bug/268722 I'm trying to have this bug also affect the "landscape client" project, but I don't get the option of typing anything when I click on it: it is forcibly set to "smart". Do I need to have it affect "smart" first and then something else?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 268722 in landscape-client "Smart library should be split into a separate package from smart command line tool" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<NCommander> kiko: you around?
<kiko> NCommander, yeah
<kiko-phone> however.. :)
<NCommander> kiko-phone: argh, I need someone who can edit https://edge.launchpad.net/nexenta
<gour> BjornT: hello, any chance for #270024 to be looked at?
<kiko-phone> bug 270024
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270024 in malone "signed bug report with attachment sent vie email fails as 'unsigned'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270024
<kiko-phone> NCommander, sure -- is that your distro?
<NCommander> kiko-phone: I'm a member of core-dev
<NCommander> The description is dated
<NCommander> And I'd like the ability to add milestones and annoucements (more on the later than the former)
<gour> kiko-phone: email interface is crippled - it does not allow one to attach file when submitting new bug-report - it fails as 'not signed'
<NCommander> kiko-phone: I also would like a members group created (I'll register the actual group, but none of us can actually edit the distro page to make said changes)
<kiko-phone> NCommander, there already is ~nexenta
<kiko-phone> NCommander, so I've just changed the registrant
<NCommander> Does that mean I can edit the page?
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> awesome
<kiko-phone> yes
<BjornT> gour: sorry, i haven't gotten to it yet. i've been busy with other things today. i've sent a test mail, though, to see if i can reproduce it.
<gour> BjornT: that's also good
 * gour hopes BjornT will soon receive 'failure' :-)
<BjornT> gour: nope :) i managed to file a bug with attachments: https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/270292
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270292 in conduit "Can't configure Tomboy sync" [Undecided,New]
<BjornT> gour: so that means that it's at least possible. now we just have to figure out why your submissions fail.
<gour> BjornT: you did it via email interface?
<BjornT> gour: yes
<gour> BjornT: to which email you sent to staging?
<BjornT> gour: new@bugs.staging.launchpad.net
<gour> BjornT: ok. will try soon. now i'm busy...
<gour> BjornT: i sent email to staging, but it does not appear in 'gnumed'
<BjornT> gour: right. that was because the attachment wasn't signed. could you send another one, where you tell gnus to sign the attachment as well?
<gour> BjornT: hmm, isn't this unreasonable to have requirement to sign attachment?
 * BjornT -> out for a walk, back later
<BjornT> gour: sure, that's unreasonable. i just want to see if we can find a workaround, until the bug is fixed.
<gour> BjornT: do you 'eat' my tests 'cause i do not get any 'failure' replies?
<DnaX> there is anyone can patch LP DB?
<BjornT> gour: in order not to spam people, staging.launchpad.net doesn't send e-mail to the world. the mail does end up in a mailbox, where i can look at them.
<gour> BjornT: ahh, i expected that, at least, sender will get reply
<gour> BjornT: so, you have a small collection there, none passed through
<BjornT> gour: right. the first two didn't have the attachment signed. the last two did sign the attachments, but there were two signatures; one for the text, and one for the attachment.
<BjornT> gour: if you get it to sign the whole message (text and attachment) with one single signature, it will work.
<gour> BjornT: ok, let me try it
<gour> BjornT: i sent another two and i'm running out of ideas how to sign in Gnus to make LP happy :-/
<BjornT> gour: hmm. that one had only the attachment signed, not the text. ever considered switching to a sane e-mail client? ;)
<gour> BjornT: heh, never encountered such request to sign attachment :-/
<gour> BjornT: i'm not sure claws will do it correctly
<gour> BjornT: yes, Gnus has option to send attachment only
 * gour thinks it's better to fix that stupid bug than enforcing such req. to end-users
<BjornT> gour: i find it odd that the whole message doesn't get signed. signing the message is a proof of that you wrote the e-mail. i mean, if you wrote an e-mail saying "here's a picture of me", and doesn't sign the attachment (together with the text), someone could simply replace the picture and re-send the mail.
<BjornT> gour: i'd suggest filing a bug against gnus (that doesn't mean that we won't fix the bug in LP)
<vadi2> Hi, where can I manage subscriptions for a team?
<vadi2> Because for some strange reason one of the teams I'm in got subscribed to another and members of team A are getting spammed
<vadi2> actually, launchpad subscribed every team I'm in to the other group. I certainly don't recall doing that myself...
<gour> BjornT: thank you for readiness to fix the bug. i'll speak with gnus people to see what's wrong or if i do something wrong. in the meantime i sent another email, this time signed with courier's mimepgp from cli
<rawler> hey people.. I get an error in uploading to my ppa that I can't understand..
<rawler> for some reason, it rejects my uploads due to failed checksums.. I've verified them manually and they seems correct?
<rawler> also relevant may be that I already have the package in question in launchpad ppa for intrepid, now back-porting to hardy, so I needed to change a dep.. but I don't think the .diff.gz-checksum should clash between distributions, should it?
<rawler> has anyone got a clue on what's going on?
<geser> did you change the version?
<rawler> ehm, i'm trying to upload with the same version, but to hardy instead of intrepid.. so maybe? :)
<rawler> I'm really new to debian packaging, and constantly confused.. :)
<geser> you can only have one version in your ppa
<rawler> geser: oh, so I can't have the same version of a package compiled for both hardy and intrepid?
<bigjools> you can but you need to copy it between distroseries
<geser> no, you need to slightly modify the revision (e.g. add the distribution name to the revision)
<bigjools> no, don't do that :)
<rawler> ok, but the _only_ change required is to drop one requirement for hardy? do I still need to fiddle with different revisions and stuff?
<bigjools> https://launchpad.net/+people/+me/+archive/+copy-packages
<geser> bigjools: is it really a good idea to copy from interpid to hardy?
<bigjools> select destination series and go
<bigjools> it's fine as long as you don't copy binaries
<bigjools> let it recompile
<geser> does rebuilding work now?
<geser> how is the filename problem solved?
<rawler> well, it doesn't compile without a small change.. (on hardy it must not build-depend on libqt4-opengl-dev, and on intrepid it won't build without that build-dep)
<rawler> I get an error while trying to copy..
<rawler> "The following source cannot be copied: tetzle 1.1.0-0ubuntu5 in intrepid (same version already has published binaries in the destination archive)"
<rawler> (I have not selected to copy binaries)
<rawler> is it possible to do some conditional dependencies in the control-file?
<rawler> like "if this package exists, it's required" ?
<zachtib> anyone know why i'm getting Chrrot problems on packages i upload to my ppa?
<rawler> or maybe build-depend on a file, if that's possible?
<geser> rawler: you can only build-depend on packages
<geser> but you can OR ('|') build-depends
<gour> hmm...one report went through...let me try to find which one
<rawler> geser: doesn't help me much I'm afraid, since the other alternative is '' (nothing) :)
<beuno> Rinchen, any updates on the OpenID stuff?
<rawler> oh well, I guess I have to upload with different revisions.. is there any common practice to denominate distribution in the revision?
<rawler> tetzle_1.1.0-0ubuntu5~hardy   ???
<gour> BjornT: how do you explain that https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/gnumed/+bug/270293 went through - here http://rafb.net/p/ONMaxA77.html is raw message ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270293 in gnome-applets "keyboard indicator applet 2.22.2 does not switch kepboard layout" [Low,New]
<Rinchen> beuno, if you mean the browser items, no updates. I haven't worked on it since I returned last week. Other stuff ahead of it
<gour> ubottu: take care. this is staging ;)
<rawler> sorry.. if someone replied to me, please re-reply.. :S (darn pidgin not asking before closing all chats)
<nand> Rinchen: hey! I heard you need some testers for the openid drupal module? I'm willing to test it on Brainstorm, an update is scheduled in a few weeks/months
<Rinchen> nand, great! We have some internal testing a wee bit of polishing before it's ready. We're also going to see about getting it released under a FOSS license and accepted upstream.
<BjornT> gour: that's odd. i wouldn't have expected it to go through. looks like a bug.
<nand> Rinchen: shall the testing be private? I got devel.ideatorrent.org, which is a live preview of the developement version of Brainstorm
<nand> might help to have a broader preview
<nand> uh, broader testing
<Rinchen> nand, it's not really a public vs private issue. It's just that we finished coding it, want to deploy it on some internal sites first to ensure it actually works! :-)
<Rinchen> nand, how would it look for us to release garbage code. :-)
<nand> Rinchen: eheh :) devel.ideatorrent.org is a testing website, so it is no problem to have buggy things here!
<rawler> well, judging by the success of a well-known redmond-based company, you'd probably get rich.. ;)
<gour> BjornT: heh. another reason to properly fixed it :-D
<gour> btw, what do you think about https://bugs.launchpad.net/blueprint/+bug/195743 our dev just stumbled upon it?
<nand> Rinchen: okay, shall I give you my mail for the practical details?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 195743 in blueprint "blueprint tracker lacks an advanced search" [Undecided,New]
<BjornT> gour: indeed :)
<Rinchen> nand, If you're here usually on this channel, I'll just make a note to ping you.
<nand> Rinchen: okay, I'm usually here during these hours
<Rinchen> nand, I'm not sure what stu m's time table is so I can simply ping you when it's done.
<Rinchen> nand, ok, that works
<nand> cool, thanks
<Rinchen> you betcha
<Rinchen> I have a few plugins that we need to finish up and release.
<newz2000> Anyone have luck using openid 2.0 authentication against launchpad from a django app?
<nand> a few more? you mean, extensions to the LP open id module?
<Rinchen> one of the ideas we have is to modify the ubuntu packages to include these plugins by default so anyone can apt-get drupal, moin, wp, etc. and have the plugins to hook into Launchpad
<BjornT> gour: that bug is unfortunately not very high priority at the moment. we have more important things to focus on currently.
<nand> eh, would be neat
<Rinchen> ok, off to a Dr's appt.  bbib.
<gour> BjornT: ok. this email-interface is higher-priority for us as well
<rawler> is there a ntp-problem with the ppa-build-hosts ATM?
<ephracis> Hi, I am having problems with my bazaar branch at launchpad. I got the branch on my computer, made a few changes and committed the code. The local copy says it is at revision 5 but when I surf to launchpad.net and check it's still at revision 2.
<ephracis> I must be doing something wrong here. I am not used to bazaar, mostly used to svn.
<yannick> hi guys, the PPA is broken:"15 Sep 20:05:10 ntpdate[3259]: no server suitable for synchronization found
<yannick> RUN: /usr/share/launchpad-buildd/slavebin/remove-build ['remove-build', '717449-1768269']
<yannick> Removing build 717449-1768269"
<yannick> going ot bed. gn8
<rawler> yannick: same problem here..
<kiko> yannick, rawler: let me just check
<atcurtis> 'karma' for me never notices when I push a new revision into bzr repository. Is this known issue?
<elmo> yannick: link to the build log?
<elmo> rawler: ^--
<psycose> hello !
<kiko> atcurtis, I think that feature will only start working after thursday but abentley may know better
<yannick> kiko, elmo e.g. this one: https://launchpad.net/~sevmek/+archive/+build/717449
<elmo> yannick: yeah, found it, thanks
<abentley> kiko, atcurtis: I know fixes for that kind of karma landed, but I'm not sure whether your issue is the one being addressed.
<atcurtis> kiko: ok... I'm thinking that maybe it is not recognising my revisions -my revs have <username>@<hostname>.<domain> where my registered email is <username>@<domain>
<abentley> atcurtis: Can you claim <username>@<hostname>.<domain>?
<atcurtis> I don't think an email would get though because hostname is not externally visible
<abentley> atcurtis: Ideally, you would use a user ID that is a valid email address.
<atcurtis> abentley: how would you tell bzr about a userid? is it an env var?
<beuno> atcurtis, bzr whoami 'You Name <your@email>'
<abentley> atcurtis: bzr my-id "Full Name <username@domain>"
<abentley> atcurtis: What beuno said.
<atcurtis> thanks! is it a global setting?
<abentley> Yes.
<abentley> (you can also do non-global settings if you really want)
<atcurtis> global suits me fine.
<elmo> yannick/rawler: we've backed out the broken buildds; thanks for letting us know
<beuno> atcurtis, be warned that the commits made up to now, will stick with the old ID
<beuno> so, you probably won't get karma for that
<rawler> elmo: no probs.. thanks.. :)
<cgregan> Hello all, Does anyone know how much of a private bug is seen by the public if it is made to "Also Affects" a public project?
<Ampelbein> cgregan: nothing. a private bug is private.
<cgregan> ï»¿Ampelbein: Thank you
<kiko> cgregan, only direct subscribers can see it, IOW.
<cgregan> kiko: Excellent.....we are moving some bugs over from USG and want to make sure info is not disclosed. Thanks
<kiko> cgregan, cool. note that you want to try getting private bugs reported that have only one subscriber -- for the obvious reason. :)
<cgregan> kiko: I'll see what I can do about that. :-)
<cgregan> kiko: I tried it out and got some very strange results. Not sure what made it through to the public since I am a member of the private team.
<cgregan> kiko: Can you see the comments on this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/263196
<ubottu> Error: This bug is private
<cgregan> so then ubottu agrees that somehow a private bug created an also affects private bug.
<kiko> cgregan, that sentence does not compute. :)
<cgregan> hehe
<kiko> the bug you posted is private. I can see it because I am a launchpad admin, but not if I log out.
<cgregan> kiko: Yes...the Belmont project is all private bugs...I wanted to also affects it to Ubuntu but the bug there should be private
<cgregan> s/private/public
<cgregan> Ubuntu bug should be public
<kiko> cgregan, there is only one bug, but it can affect multiple contacts
<cgregan> kiko: ah...so it does not clone
<cgregan> hmmm
<cgregan> kiko: So I need to create a whole new public bug and paste details in from the private?
<kiko> cgregan, that's the workaround, I think. kinda horrible though
<cgregan> kiko: I agree, but I'm not sure the best way to get a bug with some private information in it, over to a publicly viewable one, without divulging private conversations...and such. Any recommendations?
<directhex> know what'd be lovely? if people had to say which version of ubuntu they were running when filing a bug report. it'd make chasing issues much easier
<kiko> cgregan, we have no real support for that today. you're better off doing what you did right now
<kiko> directhex, yeah, it's on the list for 3.0
<cgregan> kiko: Ok...thanks
<directhex> kiko, oh, good. how about support for debian in PPA? distro support is one area the opensuse build service is miles ahead on
<wgrant> kiko: Oh, doesn't it make things "too complex"?
<directhex> wgrant, know what's too complex? guessing the version of an app based on bug submission date & prayer
<wgrant> directhex: Of that I'm quite aware, and I have argued this in the past. But IIRC a counter-argument given was that it would be too complex.
<directhex> wgrant, at least make apport put it in the preamble so you don't need to open a 10 meg file in your browser to search for the version...
 * directhex closes another bug
<wgrant> directhex: It's there, isn't it?
<wgrant> I'm sure i've seen a DistroRelease field.
<directhex> wgrant, it is, a few thousand lines in
<wgrant> Huh, I thought it was meant to be in the description.
<wgrant> That's probably an apport bug, at any rate.
<wgrant> So is more likely to get fixed.
#launchpad 2008-09-16
<bdmurray> I had a bzr upgrade of a branch on Launchpad go bad on me ... what should I do?
<kiko> bdmurray, you can delete the bzr.backup dir via sftp iirc
<beuno> actually
<beuno> don't delete it
<beuno> you actually want to delete .bzr
<beuno> and rename bzr.backup  :)
<beuno> bzr.backup -> .bzr
<beuno> to restore the branch
<bdmurray> so actually, it didn't go bad but the bzr upgrade process timedout
<beuno> bdmurray, what's the link to the branch?
<bdmurray> lp:~brian-murray/update-manager/brian
 * beuno checks the branch
<beuno> bdmurray, I'd delete .bzr, and rename bzr.backup -> .bzr
<beuno> and do the upgrade again
<bdmurray> beuno: okay, thanks I'll give that a shot
<beuno> beuno@beuno-laptop:~$ bzr info sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/update-manager/brian
<beuno> Standalone branch (format: unnamed)
<beuno> unnamed isn't a very good format to have
<spiv> Yeah, fully upgraded branch shouldn't ever say "unnamed" over SFTP.  (bzr+ssh unfortunately reports formats as 'unnamed', and also it's possible to have combinations like an old branch format in a current repo format which would also be reported as 'unnamed')
<bdmurray> So, just to be clear I want to sftp to bazaar.launchpad.net?
<beuno> bdmurray, yeap, and go to your branch
<beuno> you may want to use lftp
<beuno> I hear it's nicer
<bdmurray> I'm familiar with sftp but with ls nothing is returned
<bdmurray> Couldn't stat remote file: No such file or directory
<beuno> yeah, it's weird that way
<beuno> mwhudson, what was the procedure in these cases?
<mwhudson> i guess probably the easiest thing to do is for me to fix it on the server
<mwhudson> bdmurray: you'
<beuno> probably, but we should really find a way for people to solve this on their own. Failed upgrades happen with certain frequency
<beuno> I wonder if we should have a "restore backup" button on the UI
<mwhudson> we should certainly have an 'upgrade' button on the ui
<beuno> that too  :)
<beuno> would save billion of gigwats of bw
<beuno> is there a bug filed for that?
<mwhudson> bdmurray: in the next release (on thursday) you'll be able to use a regular sftp client much more easily
<mwhudson> bdmurray: looks like the branch is in fact mostly updated
<mwhudson> bdmurray: what are you after, just an upgrade to packs?
<bdmurray> mwhudson: right, just a standard upgrade
<jml> beuno: that's a good question
<jml> beuno: bug 254135
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254135 in launchpad-bazaar "Add UI to upgrade a hosted bzr branch" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254135
<mwhudson> bdmurray: done
<beuno> jml, thanks!  I'll add a "me too" to that
<bdmurray> mwhudson: great, thanks!
<nathangrubb> man.. I used to hate BZR, now I love it
 * beuno hugs bzr
<nathangrubb> Yes :D
<coppro> how do I get OpenID with my launchpad account
<yannick> elmo, thank you.
<beuno> coppro, you need to be part of the beta team
<beuno> although, I think, it's going to be release soon-ish to everyone
<beuno> you can request to join the beta team if you'd like:  https://launchpad.net/~bzr-beta-ppa
<beuno> uhm, wrong url
<beuno> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-beta-testers
<beuno> that's the one
<tgm4883_laptop> Is there a way to reupload something to my PPA?  I am getting rejected emails saying "MD5 sum of uploaded file does not match existing file in archive"
<persia> tgm4883_laptop: Don't modify orig.tar.gz, and don't use -sa unless you bump the upstream version.
<tgm4883_laptop> persia, hmm, I didn't think I was modifying the orig.tar.gz.  I am using -sa, but I did think I was bumping the upstream version (I went from 6~svn145-0ubuntu1 to 6~svn170-0ubuntu1)
<persia> tgm4883_laptop: That should be an upstream version bump.  In that case, I have no idea.  Sorry.
<tgm4883_laptop> my only thought is that it somehow conflicts with the other upload that i'm doing
<tgm4883_laptop> which is
<tgm4883_laptop> which is the same package, but one for hardy and one for intrepid.  the hardy one has ~hardy at the end of the version
<stgraber> hey, I don't think any admin is around but when one will can he please cancel all the vcs-imports for: https://code.launchpad.net/ltsp-cluster
<stgraber> as we need to clear our code, I prefer to do the cleaning in SVN, the use bzr-svn and push to LP myself
<tgm4883_laptop> it's strange, as it seems whichever release version gets there first is ok, but the other one fails
<jamesh> tgm4883_laptop: do the hardy and intrepid uploads have identical orig.tar.gz files?
<tgm4883_laptop> jamesh, yes
<jamesh> for this sort of case, you should have a single orig.tar.gz and different diff.gz files
<tgm4883_laptop> ok, I have a development dir for hardy stuff and one for intrepid.  Should I then not do get-orig-source stuff for the hardy stuff?
<jamesh> tgm4883_laptop: the error you got suggests that they aren't identical.  Are you sure their MD5 sums match?
<tgm4883_laptop> jamesh, it might be slightly different, as the time is different when I do the svn pull for g-o-s, but it pulls the same svn revision
<jamesh> tgm4883_laptop: that is your problem.
<tgm4883_laptop> ok, should I just use the same orig.tar.gz then from the intrepid build?
<jamesh> yes.
<tgm4883_laptop> ok
<tgm4883_laptop> one more question then
<tgm4883_laptop> actually, nm, I think it's the same issue
<tgm4883_laptop> i'll do that and report back, thanks
<jamesh> tgm4883_laptop: the files for all the distro releases are served from a single directory, so if files have the same name they need to be identical
<tgm4883_laptop> jamesh, ok, then is there a way to re-upload the package to ppa?
<tgm4883_laptop> cause it says it's already uploaded
<jamesh> tgm4883_laptop: removing the .upload file will probably do the trick
<jamesh> tgm4883_laptop: but you probably need to regenerate the .dsc and .changes files
<jamesh> since they contain checksums for the .orig.tar.gz
<tgm4883_laptop> will do
<tgm4883_laptop> thanks
<persia> tgm4883_laptop: If you've an automated construction of your orig.tar.gz, you may want to consider gzip -9nf to reduce the chances of md5sum skew for unmodified contents.
<jamesh> I wonder if "bzr export" does repeatable tarballs?
<mwhudson_> jamesh: i don't think it does, iirc there's a bug report about that somewhere
<jamesh> it could grab file timestamps from the "last changed revision" in the inventory
<persia> jamesh: mwhudson: No.  For two reasons: firstly, the timestamps, and secondly that most people just tar & gzip without the right arguments to not include md5sum adjustments as part of the tar & gzip process.
<persia> Also note that it breaks some VCS workflows if you preserve repo timestamps.  Consider the case of `bzr revert foo; make`
<jamesh> persia: "bzr export" can generate a .tar.gz from a bzr revision
<jamesh> persia: and it should be possible to make the output only depend on the input revision
<jamesh> rather than the time you ran the command or any other changes
<persia> jamesh: I'm absolutely certain that it does so in a manner that doesn't call the special hooks in tar and gzip to not track either the original (temporary) tarfile name, nor the timestamp thereof.  Further, I suspect it doesn't force compression of everything (when it does not preseve space), so one gets different sets of compression in different environments.
 * mwhudson__ applied the windows solution
<persia> jamesh: Right, but for the "create tar.gz" case, I want the timestamp at which the file was last committed, and for the working directory case, I want the timestamp when the file was last modified for any reason.
<jamesh> persia: it uses the Python tarfile module to create the tarball
<jamesh> so on-disk timestamps don't come into the equation for that part of the process
<persia> jamesh: OK.  Then it's certainly broken, since that's known to not preserve md5sums.
<jamesh> how so?
<persia> The way the compression is done by that module will generate a different md5sum for each creation, because the time the tarfile is created ends up being in the tarfile.
<persia> Note that there are plenty of use cases where this is a good thing, just not for md5sum preservation for Debian-format packaging.
<persia> I suspect there is a way to hint it, but haven't dug through that code to determine the right set of hints.
<jamesh> hmm.  Looks like it writes the current timestamp into the gzip header
<persia> jamesh: Precisely :)
<persia> For command-line gzip, calling with -9nf both skips the current timestamp inclusion, forces compression of everything, avoiding possible platform-based variance.
<jamesh> persia: I agree that "bzr export" as it is now won't produce repeatable archives, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't.
<persia> jamesh: True.  I'm just not sure if it should.
<jamesh> persia: the problems seem to be (1) the gzip header, and (2) the tarfile entries it creates use current time (with a TODO comment indicating that it'd be good to do otherwise ...)
<persia> jamesh: Essentially, while it makes life significantly easier for those using bzr export to generate orig.tar.gz files for Debian-format packaging, I'm not convinced it doesn't break some other workflow.
<persia> jamesh: Yep.  Those are the two places where one needs to adjust things to get repeatable md5sums.
<jamesh> I'm still not quite sure why this would cause problems elsewhere.
<persia> jamesh: Sorry.  Distracted.
<persia> Imagine the case where one wants to know *when* the orig.tar.gz was constructed.  For example, one is upstream, and one has this tarball, and one wonders if it's accurate.
<persia> Well, that's probably more useful for foo.tar.gz (no *orig*), but still.
<jamesh> persia: if the idea is to produce an accurate representation of a revision, why does it matter when it was created?
<jamesh> if you know that the command to generate it produces repeatable, accurate results
<persia> jamesh: Hrm.  Perhaps not.  Is there any possibility that you and I could have different branches with the same revision number and generate two tarballs that appear to be the same revision?
<jamesh> persia: revision numbers are not globally unique, so that is a distinct possibility
<jamesh> but timestamps will be the least of your worries in that case.
<persia> Yeah :)
<persia> I'm just trying to think of various ways that having it generate something suitable for orig.tar.gz might break the case for tar.gz.
<persia> Mind you, I'm an avid user of orig.tar.gz, and am not upstream for anything, so perhaps I'm not the ideal person to identify possible regressions.
<maco> is this an ok place to ask about the launchpad api?
<persia> maco: There isn't a better one :)
<maco> persia: ok
<maco> if i do  bug_filter.add_option("bugnumber", int(bug.strip()))  why does it give a ValueError on that line?  i thought it was because i was using a string and it says bugnumber will be an int, but trying it as an int also gives the error
<maco> er, hrm maybe that doesn't make sense
<maco> um, i'm using the python-launchpad-bugs package and trying to query launchpad through the api
<tgm4883_laptop> persia, jamesh using the same orig.tar.gz fixed it.  Thanks again
<maco> is there a field.something to search for bug numbers?
<maco> it turns out the python bug search package for launchpad doesn't have that as a search option, so i'm wondering if there's a way to add that field as a search parameter
<BjornT> maco: no, there isn't.
<jml> hello BjornT
<BjornT> hi jml
<maco> BjornT: i found how to get a bug by number on one of the other wiki pages
<thekorn> hi, what's the best place to report API bugs, is there a subproject or are you using tags?
<jamesh> thekorn: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpadlib might be appropriate
<thekorn> jamesh, ok, but what's the best target for bugs I can also reproduce with 'raw' http request, without using launchpadlib
<jamesh> thekorn: dunno.  But filing bugs against launchpadlib will probably get the attention of the right people
<jamesh> I guess it depends on what the bug is exactly.
<thekorn> jamesh, ok, thanks, will file it there
<thekorn> well, I get an 503 error for any operation on huge objects, like requesting https://api.staging.launchpad.net/beta/bugs/1/messages
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
<didrocks> Hi everyone!
<didrocks> I don't understand why I was rejected in my PPA: "PPA uploads must be for the RELEASE pocket" trying to upload to it my iptables backport for hardy
<didrocks> I have "Distribution: hardy-backports"
<persia> didrocks: "hardy-backports" is not a RELEASE pocket.  You need "hardy".
<bigjools> should be just "hardy"
<stdin> you can only have "hardy", ie: no -backports
<persia> (And yes, this means that the result is wholly unsuitable for later upload to hardy-backports, but that's a different issue)
<bigjools> we're thinking about adding pocket support back to PPAs, FWIW
<didrocks> ok, so, for testing I can just put hardy. But when I have to change it for real backporting, I have to change it to ...-backports
<didrocks> oki bigjools :)
<didrocks> thx to everyone
<persia> bigjools: So that one has separate PPAs for e.g. hardy vs. hardy-backports?  And one can have an e.g. hardy-proposed PPA?
<bigjools> persia: pretty much.  But we're still at the "thinking about it" stage so don't get your hopes up too much :)
<persia> bigjools: Aside from the use case of package review through PPAs (which is missing too many bits to be very useful), for what would this be used?
 * wgrant is more hoping that multiple PPAs and/or flexible components reappear.
<wgrant> Pockets aren't so useful.
<bigjools> it uncomplicates a lot of specialised processing for us internally in addition to what you said (which is high on our prioritry list BTW)
<bigjools> multiple PPAs are also on our list
<wgrant> I guess P3As have to special-case that for the security PPA among others?
<bigjools> cough, yes :)
<wgrant> s/PPA/P3A/
<persia> bigjools: Creating a review process is high on your priority list?  Are there specs available?  This has been widely discussed, and there is a known set of 25 or so requirements that might be a good input.
<bigjools> persia: no specs yet, but I would be very pleased to get your input
<persia> bigjools: How about a session at UDS?
<bigjools> might be a bit late by then, although it could be discussed.  I am not going but Celso and Muharem will be there
<persia> I know several other people would also have input, and announcing that might be a good way to get people to bring their thoughts to the room.
<persia> bigjools: Surely you'll be attending remotely, no?
<bigjools> we're thinking explicitly about package sync reviews right now, but adding PPAs into the mix is also good
<bigjools> persia: the time difference would make it hard but if there's a specific session that's of interest I would listen in
<persia> Actually, the case for syncs and updates is far more interesting to me.  Whether PPAs are part of it is an implementation detail.
<persia> bigjools: Unless you're limited somehow, I'll recommend adjusting your sleep schedule for the week.  I've generally found it advantageous to attend remotely when I couldn't be there in person.
<bigjools> persia: try telling my kids to adjust their sleep schedule :)
<persia> Perhaps we could try to schedule for the early morning / late evening to better match your needs?
<persia> bigjools: Well, that's harder :)
<bigjools> persia: yeah, if it's early in the day in CA then it's easier for me
<persia> bigjools: In that case, I'd recommend asking for whoever is coordinating LP-oriented sessions to have it earliest.  I'm not sure what the tracks will be this time, but having it in a MOTU-type track will probably expose the majority of the blind reviewers (who need the UI support more)
<bigjools> btw I don't think PPAs are an implementation detail, they are an additional part of the interaction to think about.  You could consider them as little upload queues for Ubuntu (which is what is happening for security)
<wgrant> I think that is an interesting idea for a workflow change.
<bigjools> persia: ok, thanks, I'll try and fix that.  BTW if you could let me have any input you have on this topic ahead of time it would be very useful.
<persia> bigjools: While it might make the use case for -security better, having been involved in two flavours working out of PPAs and trying to get into the main archive, I'll say it's *extremely* poor for an upload queue.
<bigjools> persia: is that because the tools were bad though?
<persia> bigjools: Sure.  I'm not sure how much time I'll have beforehand, but I'll send you some stuff if I get it together.
<bigjools> awesome, thanks
<persia> bigjools: The large issue is that a PPA allows interdependencies between packages that don't match the archives, which can complicate things.
<bigjools> true
<persia> The medium issue is that a PPA encourages multiple revisions to address issues, and often the changelog needs to be elided when merging to the primary repositories.
<persia> The small issue is that the PPA UI breaks at about 60 packages.
<persia> The small issue is fairly easy to fix with some thought.
<persia> The medium issue could maybe be addressed, if it is decided that PPAs are for review, rather than user distribution, but that breaks many current PPA use cases.
<bigjools> pocket support could help the former maybe?
<persia> The large issue is just difficult.
<persia> Which is "the former"?
<bigjools> "medium issue"
<bigjools> what is the problem with the UI at 60 packages?
<jamesh> persia: why should changelog entries be elided/removed?
<persia> It's not batched, so if there are > 60 packages, one cannot operate on the alphabetically large packages without specifically searching for them by name.
<jamesh> most package changelogs mention shitloads of releases that have never been in Ubuntu archives
<jamesh> due to Debian heritage
<jamesh> why should PPAs be different?
<persia> jamesh: Because 1) we don't want to jump from -3ubuntu1 to -3ubuntu18 unless we need, and 2) because often changes get tested and reverted, and it's just embarassing noise.
 * wgrant wishes that debian/changelog would crawl away into a corner and die.
<bigjools> heh
 * persia likes debian/changelog
<wgrant> It's being obsoleted by real VCSes.
<jamesh> persia: so get people to use version numbers that fit between -3ubuntu1 and -3ubuntu2 for their testing packages?
<jamesh> this seems disconnected to maintaining the change history
<persia> jamesh: Yes, but that then means that one needs to perform special operations before pocket-copying, which takes us back to PPAs not having packages suitable for direct upload to Ubuntu (see the initiating discussion about use of hardy-backports)
<jamesh> persia: I guess I see the problem as a social one rather than a technical one
<jamesh> [not that my opinion matters much in this case]
<persia> wgrant: Well, I guess.  If everything was in a real VCS, and the infrastructure was in place, and it worked, I could probably live with autogenerated debian/changelog, but I like to read it as a user.
<mok0> persia: you mean, you like to read it as a developer
<persia> jamesh: Well, maybe social, or maybe policy, but it's essentially that if we wish to use PPAs as a upload queue with pocket-copying into the primary archive, we either give up on the conventions for revision numbering, or we allow them to be clobbered in PPAs, and give up on using PPAs for end-user distribution
<persia> mok0: No.  I mean I like to read it as a user.  I was reading debian/changelog for each package update *long* before I was a developer.
<mok0> persia: Not many users care about changelog, though...
<jamesh> persia: so, if you weren't using a PPA there would be rules that say "if you don't do X, your package will be rejected"
<mok0> persia: If you want to know about new features in a package, it wont help you
<bigjools> persia: if we have -proposed in PPAs O don't think that's a problem
<persia> mok0: Well, it depends.  I venture to say that many users do, and those that do are often proxy for larger groups of users (administrators of larger deployments, etc.)
<bigjools> s/O/I/
<jamesh> why can't you use those same rules when deciding whether to copy a PPA package to the main distribution?
<persia> mok0: Why won't it help me?
<persia> jamesh: precisely.
<mok0> persia: because those new features are not described there
<mok0> (usually)
<persia> bigjools: Huh?  I'm not sure I understand how the presence or absence of -proposed affects the revision nomenclature issue.
<jamesh> you'll have some PPAs that contain crap that will never be appropriate to copy, and some that are great
<persia> mok0: Typically either they are described there, or there is a mention of a new upstream release, and I can read /usr/share/docs/$(package)/changelog.gz
<jamesh> the presence of crap doesn't really matter though, provided it is contained in its own unsupported PPA
<persia> (and yes, this means that every day when I upgrade Ubuntu I need to go to extra effort downloading sources now, but I consider that a bug)
<mok0> persia: Right, upstream changelog is where you look for features
<bigjools> persia: I'm talking about the clash between "end-user distribution" and "revision numbering"
<bigjools> jamesh: right
<persia> mok0: Depends on the feature.  Not always, and *extremely* rarely for stable instalaltions.
<mok0> bigjools: you are right, release info does not logically belong in changelog
<persia> bigjools: Ah, so the -proposed PPA might not enforce revision numbering rules, and the $(RELEASE) PPA would enforce them?  That sounds like a workable solution.
<mok0> bigjools: it's not logical to put build information in the changelog
<mok0> bigjools: and it wouldn't appear in a VCS either
<bigjools> persia: how does this process work right now in Ubuntu?  can we better it?
<persia> bigjools: Which process?  Package review?
<bigjools> persia: testing and versions etc.
<persia> bigjools: Are you still about in ~30 minutes?  I'm trying to multitask just now, and while I'd be very happy to explain, I'll do better then.
<persia> (unless someone else wants to explain it)
<bigjools> persia: yeah no problem
<persia> bigjools: Thanks :)
<bigjools> I know what it's like :)
<persia> bigjools: Sorry about that.
<persia> So, for reference, bug #179857 was filed a while back, because the way it's done is very awkward, but I'll try to explain.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 179857 in malone "Package sponsorships involve awkward bugtracker machinations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179857
<persia> There are essentially 7 different sorts of workflows, which fall into a few categories.
<persia> There's NEW packages, which go through REVU, get approved by two developers, and get uploaded into the NEW queue.
<persia> For NEW packages, a bug is filed against "Ubuntu".  It gets assigned to someone, and that person pushes the package through REVU.
<persia> When the package is accepted, as bug isn't against a package (the package didn't exist at the time the bug was opened), the bug doesn't get closed, although the changelog specifies the bug closure.
<persia> The packager than manually closes the bug.
<persia> Whilst the package is on REVU, it goes through several iterations, fixing various issues pointed out by the reviewers.
<persia> Often these changes include changes to the upstream version numbering scheme, the revision numbering scheme, whole and entire replacement of various sections of the package, sweeping changes to orig.tar.gz, inadvertant switching between native packaging and non-native packaging, etc.
<persia> As such, it's fairly safe to say that the first revision uploaded to REVU is likely not something that if distributed to end-users would upgrade safely.
<persia> Sometimes people put one or more REVU revisions also in a PPA, but those are typically deleted, as they are often not the final version, and subsequent changes break the current PPA model.
<persia> There's updating packages with some new upstream code.
<persia> (and perhaps I can't count: I'm suddenly unsure from where I got seven).
<bigjools> :)
<mok0> Wow
<persia> For these, the updater pulls in the new code from upstream, and merges with the existing debian packaging.  The diff.gz file is then attached to a bug, and either ubuntu-main-sponsors or ubuntu-universe-sponsors subscribed.
<persia> Each of these sponsoring groups has a slightly different internal workflow, but generally it involves pulling the orig.tar.gz from somewhere (to avoid sneaky people from submitting a subverted orig.tar.gz), reconstructing the package, and testing.  Comments are done in the bug, and new diff.gz files uploaded.  Eventually some candidate is deemed sufficiently good, and the developer uploads the reconstructed pacakge, closing the bug from the chang
<persia> elog.
<persia> There's processing merges with Debian (or some other external apt-source from which we sync or merge)
<persia> For these, the merger will prepare a candidate package, create a debdiff against the merge source, and submit this in a bug to one of the sponsoring queues.
<persia> The sponsor will pull from the source directly, apply the debdiff, and investigate the resulting package.  As with updates, discussion happens in a bug, and new revisions are prepared.
<persia> There's syncs: generally the sync requestor only files a bug for these, and the sponsor is expected to download the current and candidate sources, compare and review, and determine if the sync is appropriate.  Discussion in sync requests in minimized, as these will be presented to the archive-admins, who prefer short bugs.
<persia> (having a button to allow anyone who can upload to a given pocket be able to sync to that pocket would be a huge win here)
<bigjools> that's the plan
<bigjools> s/pocket/component or package set/
<persia> There's bugfix updates, in which the bug fixer will prepare a candidate debdiff fixing a specific bug (often just wrapping a patch from upstream, from another distro, or from a user), and attach that the the bug that would be fixed.  This bug gets pushed to one of the sponsor queues for review, and discussion within the bug.
<persia> There's also multiple-bugfix updates, in which someone will prepare a debdiff fixing several bugs, attach it to a new bug, reference the new bug in the old bugs, and subscribe the new bug to the sponsors queue for review and discussion.
<persia> And I'm sure I've lost count, because those 6 are the only ones that come to mind.  There are alternate workflows in place, but not official.
<bigjools> ok that's great info, thanks very much
<persia> These include both people putting a candidate package somewhere a developer can pull it with dget, and people submitting bzr branches.  Some developers will accept those, but one's chances for packages not maintained by some specific person are low in either case.
<persia> For the universe sponsors queue, there's also a bit of a bug status dance, as described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sponsorship/SponsorsQueue
<persia> So it gets put as "In-Progress" while the candidate is being prepared, and back to "Confirmed" when submitting for review.  There's no published process for the Main sponsors queue, but many preparing candidate revisions will apply the same guidelines used for Universe to Main.
<persia> Info dump complete.  Now accepting questions.
<persia> And yes, "component" is better.  Sorry for the misuse of the term.
<persia> Is there a bug number for uploader-has-access-to-sync-button?  I'd like to subscribe.
<bigjools> I need time to digest that
<persia> Understood.  I'm about a fair amount.  At least wgrant and siretart have been involved in various previous discussions, and may also be able to answer questions.
<bigjools> let me find the spec
<siretart> persia: I didn't read the beginning of the discussion, what are you currently discussing?
<siretart> (was changing servers)
<persia> siretart: Overview of the six different sorts of workflows (or 11 if you distinguish universe from main) used to accept updates from those without direct upload permission, and mention of the two alternate workflows (one deprecated, one experimental).  Alll in reference to bug #179857
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 179857 in malone "Package sponsorships involve awkward bugtracker machinations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/179857
<persia> siretart: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/47393/ has a transcript of my summary, if that's any help.
<siretart> persia: ah, I see. thanks
<bigjools> persia: you're already subscribed to the spec for this
<persia> siretart: I mostly mentioned you because you're often in this channel, and I know you attended the session in Boston about that.
<siretart> persia: feel free to hilight me even more often :)
<bigjools> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+spec/sync-workflows
<persia> bigjools: heh.  I guess it just doesn't get a lot of traffic then :)
<bigjools> it's new :)(
<bigjools> I am going to paste your comments above into it if that's ok?
<persia> bigjools: The majority of what I've just said isn't that relevant to that spec, but you're welcome to put it there if you've nowhere else to capture it.
<bigjools> umm right, brain fart
<persia> bigjools: Also, any chance that a copy of that spec could go to wiki.ubuntu.com?  I suspect most of the subscribers can't currently read it.
<bigjools> I will check on that and get back to you
<siretart> perhaps the spec should be moved to wiki.ubuntu.com, since it seems to involve discussing this with MOTUs
<siretart> not only copied
<persia> That would be nifty, if it doesn't break some internal mapping of specs on the launchpad wiki.
<bigjools> the problem is that they tend to discuss code changes, and until the day LP is OSS that's a bit sensitive :)
<siretart> FWIW, I think that 'distributed-development' and 'native-source-syncs' will change the situation quite a bit.
<siretart> bigjools: well, perhaps you can split the spec in two parts: the workflow discussion and the implementation details? people won't be interested that much in the latter anyways..
<bigjools> yeah, I will bring this up in our meetings
<wgrant> native-source-syncs would be a prereq for sync-workflows, wouldn't it?
<wgrant> bigjools: Aha, this must be the first good reason that I've seen for keeping specs private.
<persia> I think we ought keep distributed-development separate from other things, where possible.  While I'd like to see it sooner, I'm not sure it's a direct dependency of anything, and don't want to either delay it or other things because of a false dependency.
<bigjools> it's probably the only reason
<wgrant> bigjools: All I've heard previously is "No."
<persia> Actually, it's probably interesting for a lot of specs to be published more widely, if only the proposed workflow and use cases.  Having closed implementation for closed-source makes sense.
<persia> (setting aside the open/closed source issue)
<bigjools> wgrant: re. n-s-s and s-w, yeah, the lines are blurred across those two anyway
<wgrant> One seems fairly useless without the other.
<bigjools> n-s-s is nearly complete anyway
<wgrant> This is good.
<wgrant> Is gina almost in a state to make n-s-s useful?
<bigjools> getting there!
 * siretart still wonders if n-s-s will be able to sync packages that have not been imported into launchpad yet
<gour> BjornT: ping
<bigjools> no it won't
<siretart> meh, so how are we supposed to sync packages from debian then?
<bigjools> because debian will be in LP :)
<gour> BjornT: i sent another test (https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/gnumed/+bug/270704) which went through and it looks it is the same case as the one from yesterday - both were signed with mimegpg and that's why they are correct - the whole message is signed. however, this is the case we need: gpg-signing & forwarding automatic-reports. still having the bug fixed would be nice
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270704 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] powerdevil" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
 * gour thinks it would be nice that bot could discern staging from 'real' bugs
<siretart> bigjools: do you have any estimate or guess how big will be the delay between a DD (e.g. me) uploading a package to debian/experimental and the package becoming available in lp to sync?
<siretart> bigjools: and do you intend to sync http://debian-multimedia.org or http://e-tobi.net (or whatelse not) as well?
<persia> actually, having an official list of sync/merge sources for oversight by the archive-admins would resolve a fair number of discussions.
<persia> Especially if one could identify the source of a given package, rather than always assuming it to be Debian
<bigjools> siretart: I can't say for certain on either question yet, but I can let you know
 * wgrant tries to think of how those could be represented in the data model.
<persia> wgrant: Wouldn't you need Origin for each orig.tar.gz?
<wgrant> persia: I'm not seeing the relevance.
<persia> Err, no, that wouldn't work, because Origin: can change.
<persia> wgrant: Erm.  Just thinking about things about which I have too little information :)  I'll go be a user somewhere else for a bit, and look forward to someone knowledgeable having an idea :)
<wgrant> Deferring to bigjools sounds good, yes.
<gnomefreak> does PPA handle Debian packages?
<wgrant> gnomefreak: PPAs only build for Ubuntu distroseries.
<gnomefreak> wgrant: thanks thought so but had to ask
<Ziroday> pulling from bazaar here in Singapore seems to be extremely slow, does launchpad have a local asian mirror?
<mwhudson> sadly, no
 * mwhudson is in new zealand
 * wgrant also feels the pain in .au
<mwhudson> Ziroday: is the branch in packs format?
<mwhudson> packs >> knits for high latency links
<Ziroday> mwhudson: not to sure
<mwhudson> Ziroday: it should say on the branch page
<Ziroday> hmm where is the closest server then?
<Ziroday> mwhudson: yes its in knits
<Ziroday> is there a way to see how many kB/s you're getting when pulling?
<mwhudson> Ziroday: there are no mirrors of the launchpad branches
<Ziroday> mwhudson: still very new to all of this https://launchpad.net/entertainer, not sure
<Ziroday> thats the program I am trying to pull
<mwhudson> oh heh
<mwhudson> paul hummer == rockstar, another launchpad dev...
<Ziroday> haha
<mwhudson> Ziroday: this branch? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~entertainer-releases/entertainer/trunk
<mwhudson> it's actually packs
<mwhudson> ("packs containing knits" is confusing, yes)
<Ziroday> mwhudson: yeah that one
<Ziroday> woops, sorry saw knits thought it was in knits
<mwhudson> anyway, the way i usually try to follow progress is just with 'du -sh' in the branch dir :/
<wgrant> I wonder if it would be more efficient to allow one to download a tarball of large branches.
<Ziroday> mwhudson: thats a neat trick
<persia> The problem with a single large file is that it gets hit by the TCP ACK window issue.  Having lots of small files in parallel can be faster for many environments.
<Ziroday> how can you find out how large a branch is?
<mwhudson> wgrant: not massively, i think
<spiv> Ziroday: "bzr info -v URL" will tell you.
<Ziroday> spiv: thanks
<spiv> Or just in this case you could glance at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~entertainer-releases/entertainer/trunk/.bzr/repository/packs/ and add up the file sizes ;)
<uws> Who is the right person to contact about vcs-import failures on Launchpad?
<uws> The Webkit vcs import has failed numerous times already: https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/webkit-open-source/trunk
<uws> upstream SVN is a beast, so the initial import takes ages.
<uws> however, I have a working branch at https://code.launchpad.net/~uws/webkit-open-source/webkit.trunk
<uws> the vcs-import maintainer may want to branch of my branch first, and have vcs-import update from there onwards (that works fine and doesn't take ages)
<spiv> uws: mwhudson or abentley I think
<uws> mwhudson, abentley: ^ see my comments about webkit vcs mirror
<spiv> uws: which tool did you use to make the import?
<uws> spiv: bzr-svn
<uws> took ages
<uws> updating it is doable though
<uws> at least with bzr-svn 0.4.12 which had a performance killer bug fixed
<spiv> Yeah, recent bzr-svn releases have been getting much faster.
<uws> if you branch my webkit bzr mirror, you can happily  bzr pull http://upstream-webkit-svn/.../trunk/
<abentley> uws: looks like it's due to a timeout.  Stinky.
<uws> abentley: Yeah, I had the same issues, but I now have a fully up to date branch you might want to use for bootstrapping
<uws> I pasted the url above
<abentley> uws: So you've effectively created an svn mirror?
<uws> abentley: Yes, using bzr-svn. Took days, had to restart it several times, but is fully up-to-date now
<uws> and pushed into lp already
<uws> I'm offering it to you so you can reuse it, and then have vcs-mirror update it
<uws> that would mean I wouldn't have to to that myself anymore ;)
<abentley> uws: We can't use bazaar as a starting point, because we don't use bzr-svn.  We use a different converter.
<abentley> But what's this http://upstream-webkit-svn/.../trunk/ URL?
<uws> hold on
<abentley> Oh, shorthand for the real upstream.
<uws> abentley: http://svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk
<uws> yeah
<uws> that's where I "bzr pull" from
<abentley> So, we can't start from bzr-- we need to start from svn.  If there were a subversion mirror, we could use that instead of the real upstream.  I think.
<uws> abentley: Well, branch my bzr branch and bzr push it to your locally running svn server
<uws> (if that works)
<wgrant> Does bzr-svn store enough info that you could push it to a svn branch?
<uws> yes
<uws> that's what many gnome people do
<wgrant> Well, I know you can do it, but I meant if it would be lossless.
<abentley> uws: I'll have to talk to my colleagues about this.
<spiv> uws: I don't think that does, sadly, if only because launchpad's converter isn't bzr-svn, so it wouldn't use the properties that bzr-svn sets.
<uws> abentley: ok, no hurries. Just wanted to let you know I have an available svn->bzr conversion, so feel free to reuse it
<spiv> uws: and the svn repo will have a different UUID, which will probalby confuse things.
<spiv> I think ideally if there's a good bzr-svn import in the wild already, it'd be best to make that the official import on Launchpad.  The trick is making sure it gets updated.
<uws> spiv: uuid is hackable on a local svn mirror ;)
<uws> spiv: Well, that one mirror "in the wild" is mine
<uws> and I don't update regularly, so I'd rather hand it off to ~vcs-mirror ;)
<spiv> Sure :)
<abentley> uws: We are interested in supporting bzr-svn, but we're not there yet.
<spiv> Right.  I'm not sure how close ~vcs-mirror is to handling this situation nicely.
 * spiv shuts up and lets abentley talk, as he has more idea what's going on :)
<abentley> spiv: are you in Australia right now?
<spiv> Yep.
<spiv> Which means I'll be asleep soon.
<uws> abentley: How do the updates work currently?
<uws> they take incremental svn revisions and stack them on top of the existing bzr branch, right?
<abentley> uws: We use the cscvs importer, and we have a couple of machines that run periodically, to update the branches.
<uws> if you can put my bzr branch in place of this "existing bzr branch" it might help
<abentley> cscvs and bzr-svn use different strategies, and we don't believe they're compatible.
<uws> abentley: That means the "official" webkit svn trunk mirror will not be available for the foreseeable future?
<uws> too bad, I'll keep my own branch and update from webkit svn then :)
<abentley> I don't think this particular import is likely to succeed, unless the upstream fixes their server.
<persia> I just encountered a failure-to-upload for most architectures for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/libmatchbox/1.9-4
<persia> Is this something that I can work around, or does it need attention by someone who can fiddle with Soyuz?
<bigjools> on the phone, be with you in a sec
<persia> Thanks :)
<geser> persia: "Duplicated ancestry". Wasn't there a bug that builds fail to upload when they just got moved to an other component?
<persia> geser: I don't know.  If that's it, then that's the problem.
<geser> persia: sounds like bug 135610
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 135610 in soyuz "rejected upload, for binary upload + promotion in the same cycle" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/135610
<persia> libmatchbox was just demoted about an hour before I pressed the "rebuild" button.  I'm just not sure what to do next, as I want both this, and matchbox-window-manager to build before the image build run.
<persia> geser: Yep.  That's it.  Mind you, in the case of *demotion* due to FTBFS from ogre-model, the advice is hard to follow.
<persia> So, I should just retry the builds, and this time they might work, or is there a switch that can be thrown to make it faster?
<geser> as the publisher should got run already you could try if a build retry works now
<persia> I'll do that, and wait for the queues.  The buildds are fairly bored right now, so it oughtn't be an excessive delay.
<geser> persia: it got successfully uploaded now
<bigjools> persia: I get off the phone and see that you fixed it already :)
<persia> geser: Yep :)
<persia> bigjools: Is that the best way to fix it?
<bigjools> it's as good as any
<persia> OK.  Is there a magic button that only retries the upload?
<bigjools> nope :(
<persia> OK.  Thanks.
<persia> Is there a better way to determine when a publisher run completes than polling a Release file?
<radix> is there a way to get an activity log for a person instead of for a bug?
<radix> cause that would be hecka sweet.
<persia> radix: Nope.
<ephracis> radix: why would you need that anyway?
<radix> ephracis: to know what I've done recently
<ephracis> radix: haha, bad memory? :P
<radix> ephracis: no, I just do such a fantastically large amount of work that any normal human mind cannot keep track of it
<ephracis> radix: haha, great job! :)
<radix> ;)
<thekorn> hi, I've got one question: the API allows to change the content of an attachment,
<thekorn> will this also be possible via the web ui, like reuploading?
<thekorn> and also, will there be some kind of flags like: this attacchment was changed by <user>
<kiko> thekorn, not sure -- intellectronica, do you know?
<intellectronica> thekorn: i don't think that's in the plan. in fact, i'm not sure if this is not a bug
<intellectronica> i don't think you should be able to change an attachment
<thekorn> I agree
<bac> intellectronica: for download files i explicitly do not allow it
<thekorn> changing patches which are already tested is bad
<bac> intellectronica: just mark it read only in the interface and it happens
<thekorn> and also changing tracebacks etc. which indicates a bug is also bad
<intellectronica> thekorn: feel like filing a bug?
<thekorn> sure, will do it in a bit
<intellectronica> thekorn: cool, thanks
<teratorn> is there any way to get email notification of new revisions in a given branch on launchpad?
<beuno> teratorn, sure, you can subscribe to it
<teratorn> yeah well... I *am* subscribed.. but I dont get mails for revisions that *I* push up
<teratorn> I wanted to get the mails so I can forward them to other people
<beuno> teratorn, you should, What's the branch's URL?
<teratorn> but I guess I have to have them subscribe
<teratorn> ah, I think I just have to edit options
#launchpad 2008-09-17
<Rafik> hello all
<Rafik> Is this the right place for question about mailing lists on lists.ubuntu.com too ?
<mwhudson> i don't think so
<Rafik> mwhudson, thanks, so where can I find help please ?
<ceefour> Hello
<ceefour> I want to fix a bazaar import URL
<ceefour> in project https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/eclipse-rap/trunk
<mwhudson> ceefour: hello
<mwhudson> ceefour: ah, i updated the url
<ceefour> thanks mwhudson! :)
<ceefour> you also did the import as well, thanks
<mwhudson> ceefour: seems to be getting somewhere this time
<ceefour> man that was quick
<ceefour> thank mwhudson
<ceefour> i wonder how many nas does launchpad have, i mean, mirroring the majority of OSS projects on earth...
<mwhudson> funny you should mention that, we're installing a newer bigger one right now :)
<mwhudson> and it's not _that_ much disk, really, you could easily buy an external hd to take it all
<mwhudson> just not with server grade reliability :)
<ceefour> btw i just sent email to bazaar importer@
<ceefour> before I met you
<mwhudson> ah, i don't think i get that mail
<mwhudson> (i probably should)
<ceefour> was sent to feedback@bazaar-importer.canonical.com
<ceefour> it's ok, i amended the email
<ceefour> thanks Michael
<mwhudson> np
<mwhudson> hope the import works!
<stgraber> mwhudson: can you cancel all imports for ltsp-cluster ? I'll import by hand and do some cleaning at the same time.
<ceefour> launchpad is really a cool thing, esp the import
<mwhudson> stgraber: can you paste the links here?
<ceefour> it really frustrates me to see something hosted on a CVS, ... SVN is a bit bearable due to git-svn  ... I tried bzr-svn before and it was ok too
<mwhudson> stgraber: and do you want the imports to be suspended or deleted?
<stgraber> mwhudson: deleted, I'll just send the code through bzr-svn when I'm done and push to LP
<mwhudson> stgraber: ok
<stgraber> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/ltsp-cluster/ltsp-loadbalancer-server https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/ltsp-cluster/ltsp-loadbalancer-client https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/ltsp-cluster/ltsp-loadbalancer-agent https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/ltsp-cluster/ltsp-cluster-client https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/ltsp-cluster/ltsp-accountmanager https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-impor
<mwhudson> stgraber: you got cut off
<stgraber> doh
<stgraber> so, basically all vcs-imports shown here: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ltsp-cluster
<mwhudson> stgraber: done
<stgraber> mwhudson: thanks
<stgraber> one of the problem is that our SVN is stored on a slow link, so it'll be a lot faster to just to the changes I want, then start our backup scripts that'll mirror those changes on our backup server that's on a 100Mb/s link, then do the push to LP from there
<stgraber> anyway, I first have to tech everyone how to use LP+bzr before turning off our SVN :)
<mwhudson> stgraber: ok
<mwhudson> stgraber: we can do the initial import from a tarball of your repository too
<mwhudson> stgraber: though that's lots of manual work for me, so i'd be happy to not do it :)
<jml> I wish I had few spare round tuits to give you so you could automate it :)
<mwhudson> i should document it, at least
<wgrant> Is there documentation somewhere on the bugtask conjoining rules?
<wgrant> The primary task seems to be conjoined with any task for the developmet series as long as that task isn't marked Won't Fix, but this doesn't seem clear.
<Quozl> is there a wiki feature on launchpad?
<spiv> Quozl: not yet, unfortunately.
<Quozl> spiv: thanks.  oh, hai.  #olpc-au.  ;-)  my question was about #netrek though, we are planning a development migration.
<spiv> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/240067
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 240067 in launchpad-foundations "Launchpad needs a wiki" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<det> How long from when I upload a package to PPA to when it appears in my repository (typically) ?
<beuno> det, 15-20 minutes maybe. Depends on how long it takes to build
<det> ahh, k, I just got an email now, apparently it was rejected because it contained a binary pacakge.
<det> I'll rebuild with -S
<det> Thanks.
<beuno> :)
<beuno> np
<beuno> I'm off to bed!
<jml> g'night
<poolie> jml, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/bzr is timing out repeatedly...
<poolie> querying the Revision tabel
<jml> poolie: it's a known bug... looking for the report now.
<bugabundo_work> hi
<bugabundo_work> I'm getting timeouts
<bugabundo_work> and LP is really slow
<bugabundo_work> Error ID: OOPS-991EC46
<jml> bugabundo_work: I see.
<jml> bugabundo_work: looking into it.
<siretart> the font on the bugpages are more than funny, close to unusable in epiphany now on edge. is that already known?
<siretart> on production its fine
<visik7> hi
<jml> poolie: maybe https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/260140 caused it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260140 in launchpad-bazaar "revisions' rss feed timing out for some projects" [High,Fix committed]
<jml> poolie: as in, the fix for that bug.
<jml> visik7: hi
<jml> siretart: "more than funny"?
<visik7> I need to mark a bug as duplicate but launchpad complains that I should reroute all other duplicate of this bug to the main bug
<visik7> it's really annoying why isn't it automatic ?
<wgrant> Because somebody hasn't bothered to implement that feature even though we've been asking for it for a looong time.
<Hobbsee> if i'm reporting a bug on the mails launchpad sends out, where does it get reported?
<Hobbsee> wgrant++
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Which kind of mail? It depends.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: this particular bug is that the <person> is deactivated by <person> for teams doesn't contain X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale headers.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: launchpad-foundations
<jml> not so.
<Hobbsee> jml: oh?
<jml> it depends on which portion the email comes from.
<siretart> jml: the various titles (bug title, comment subjects) are huge compared to the tiny, hardly readable bug texts
<jml> if you file it on 'launchpad', then it will get triaged appropriately.
<wgrant> jml: Teams == foundations, not?
<jml> oh sorry, I missed that bit :)
<wgrant> Er, no?
<jml> mea culpa
 * wgrant knows fairly well where the divisions lie. Except for strange things like product<->distrosourcepackage linkage pages which are buggy as hell probably for that reason.
<bugabundo_work> thanks jml. it seems speedy again. what was it ?
<wgrant> Gremlins.
<jml> bugabundo_work: nothing I did :)
<bugabundo_work> strange then jml
<bugabundo_work> oh darn...
<bugabundo_work> LP bugs, as lost its package search!
<thekorn> I don't know if you are already aware of it, but staging seems to be donw since about half an hour
<nedko> i've delete package from my ppa about 10 hours ago but my new source uploads are still rejected, what can i do?
<nedko> i dont see package when browsing the pool manually
<nedko> still, my uploads get rejected
<wgrant> nedko: With which error?
<Hobbsee> nedko: you still can't upload with the same version number.
<nedko> The source a2jmidid - 4+svn127-ubuntu1 is already accepted in ubuntu/hardy and you cannot upload the same version within the same distribution. You have to modify the source version and re-upload.
<nedko> i was able to do that
<nedko> original upload was wrong
<wgrant> That error isn't going to go away.
<wgrant> It means precisely what it says.
<wgrant> And exists for good reason.
<nedko> this is my personal PPA!
<nedko> i use it for tests
<nedko> nothing is accepted in ubuntu at all
<wgrant> I'm aware.
<wgrant> It refers to your PPA.
<wgrant> It might be better if it explicitly said that.
<wgrant> But it is in ubuntu/hardy in your PPA.
<wgrant> And it will refuse to allow upload of the same source multiple times due to the chaos that it would cause to endusers.
<nedko> this worked so far
<nedko> now i cannot use launchpad anymore :(
<wgrant> It did not.
<wgrant> Huh?
<wgrant> Increment the version number!
<nedko> the version number is right!
<Hobbsee> nedko: it didn't.  You may have tried uploading it to the wrong place the first time, so it appears to have worked.
<nedko> original upload was wrong
<wgrant> The version number is wrong.
<wgrant> You can't upload the same version twice.
<wgrant> That doesn't make sense, and breaks things.
<Hobbsee> nedko: if it's the same as anything you've uploaded previously, the version number is therefore *wrong*.
<nedko> version number is wrong but old original tarball was wrong!
<wgrant> Correcting a wrong upload with a wrong version number is doubly wrong.
<nedko> packaging error
<wgrant> nedko: Then you need to bump the original tarball version.
<wgrant> Same as any archive.
<nedko> so this will mean version will become wrong
<wgrant> No wronger than it is now.
<nedko> atm this package is not uploaded at all, nobody sees it
<wgrant> It is uploaded.
<wgrant> "a2jmidid - 4+svn127-ubuntu1 is already accepted"
<nedko> i'm using my ppa to upload and then if everything is right to publish packages in other ppa
<nedko> so i must create new user for each package that gets wrong?
<nedko> o.0
<wgrant> nedko: No, increment the version number.
<wgrant> It is the same method one would use to fix any packaging mistake.
<nedko> that will make version number wrong
<wgrant> No.
<wgrant> Not unless you make it wrong.
<nedko> when version number is incremented upstream, what will i do?
<wgrant> Use the upstream version number.
<wgrant> 4+svn127+oopsiuploadedsomethingbad-0ubuntu1
<wgrant> That would work fine.
<wgrant> When you update to 4+svn128, use 4+svn128
<wgrant> (also, you shouldn't be using -ubuntu1, nor -0ubuntu1, as the former doesn't exist and the latter is reserved for Ubuntu)
<nedko> + is after - in versioning?
<nedko> no?
<wgrant> - is special.
<nedko> ok
<wgrant> - separates the parts of the version.
<wgrant> So that's really two separate version strings: 4+svn127 and ubuntu1
<nedko> this is silly, but i'll try :(
<wgrant> It is not silly.
<wgrant> It's the way things work.
<wgrant> In the real archive, and in PPAs.
<nedko> i'm supposed to have control on my test ppa
<nedko> in fact i dont need to publish them at all, i need to check package build in isolated environment
<nedko> will 4+svn127+1-ubuntu1 work?
<wgrant> The first part isn't ideal, and the second part is wrong.
<wgrant> A -ubuntu1 version is never used (it's -0ubuntu1), and you're not uploading to Ubuntu.
<nedko> what is wrong with second second part?
<wgrant> The first part should indicate what has happened, not "+1".
<wgrant> You are missing the Debian revision, and using an incorrect Ubuntu revision of 1.
<nedko> there is no debian revision
<nedko> why ubuntu revision of 1 is incorrect?
<wgrant> So it should be 0.
<wgrant> You're not uploading to Ubuntu.
<wgrant> So it is not the first Ubuntu version.
<nedko> this is first ubuntu version for mentioned original tarball, no?
<wgrant> It's not an Ubuntu version.
<nedko> at some point it will eventually end in ubuntu
<wgrant> At which point it can rightly gain the distinction of being -0ubuntu1
<nedko> i dont get what is wrong with *ubuntu1
<nedko> i got it about -1*
<Hobbsee> nedko: because it doesn't come from archive.ubuntu.com.
<nedko> i got it about -0* (sorry)
<wgrant> It's not an Ubuntu package, so it shouldn't be marked as such.
<Hobbsee> nedko: and it's trying to masquerade as an official ubuntu package from there.
<Hobbsee> nedko: which makes it all the harder when we get bugs filed against the official packages.
<nedko> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive
<Hobbsee> (and so have to check version numbers, rmadison output, etc, and go "where the heck is this"
<nedko> these ones are marked ubuntu too, i followed same scheme
<nedko> are those wrong?
<wgrant> Very probably.
<nedko> why?
<wgrant> Because they're marked as being from Ubuntu when they are not.
<nedko> ok, i'll ask the other, thanks
<wgrant> Note that the Ubuntu developer-uploaded package there is appropriately marked as being from a PPA.
<nedko> like how?
<nedko> for ubuntustudio preview/test packages
<wgrant> ~ppa3
<wgrant> You could use -0ubuntu0+nedko1 or -0ubuntu1~ppa1 or whatever.
<nedko> i mean for ubuntustudio-dev packages, not for ones i (dont) publish in my personal PPA
<wgrant> A similar scheme is appropriate.
<nedko> isnt such scheme making copy of package between repositories wrong?
<wgrant> nedko: Why?
<nedko> because when you copy to main/real repo of ubuntu package will contain ppaX
<wgrant> This is a problem with the current PPA setup, but yes.
<nedko> so people workaround it by using target version when uploading to PPA?
<wgrant> Hm?
<nedko> i.e. use -NubuntuM so when copied to main/real repo package version is right
<wgrant> Then M is going to be very big.
<nedko> isnt M the debian version (0 for ubuntu package not derived from debian)?
<nedko> or i didnt got it right?
<wgrant> N is the Debian revision in the -NubuntuM example you gave.
<nedko> ah, right, sorry
<nedko> so why M is going to be very big?
<wgrant> Because if you want to be able to copy directly from the PPA you will have to bump it for each upload.
<nedko> i do that and i didnt go past 4 or 5 so far
<wgrant> Do that then.
<wgrant> That is relatively large, but still fine.
<nedko> thanks
<\sh> hmm..LP package status: Published 45 mins ago...means: it's published on the archive servers, right?
<nandersson> Can I delete a branch under my personal code/junk?
<bigjools> \sh: yes
<\sh> bigjools: then I wonder why ia32-libs 2.2ubuntu12 is not on the archives ;)
<\sh> neither the source nor the bin pkgs
<wgrant> Won't it be visible on a.u.c at least 40 minutes after the time it is marked as Published?
<bigjools> \sh: which ppa, let me check
<bigjools> or is it ubuntu?
<\sh> bigjools: universe ,-)
<wgrant> Primary, I suspect.
<\sh> no ppa here ;)
<bigjools> ok, so you need to wait for mirroring
<\sh> we need a mirror time string there ,-)
<wgrant> No, we need to give bigjools so much coffee that he never sleeps, so he runs out of things to do and makes Soyuz perfect such that it instantaneously mirrors, causing the world to explode because being universally useful seems to go against some LP principles.
<bigjools> 2nd-tier mirroring happens outside of LP so not much I can do about that
<wgrant> You also can't not sleep. Damn.
<bigjools> I have a good try already - I have 2 young kids :)
<jml> kiko: hey! you there?
<Hobbsee> you know, sometimes I really wish launchpad would do a slashdot / presumably digg / youtube-style thing, and let you filter comments based on a system such as karma.
<wgrant> But bugs with 400 comments are quite readable!
<thekorn> hi, is staging supposed to come up again today?
<intellectronica> thekorn: yes, it's just being updated now
<intellectronica> thekorn: can i ask you for a favour?
<thekorn> intellectronica, super
<thekorn> yes sure
<intellectronica> thekorn: i'd love to have an example script using launchpadlib, which you've used for altering attachments. i'm just fixing this now and it would be nice to check that your script stops working
<thekorn> intellectronica, give me a second
<thekorn> intellectronica, I found this in my history http://paste.ubuntu.com/47768/
<intellectronica> thekorn: cool. thanks a lot
<thekorn> you are most welcome
<glade88> hello.. how long does it take for a mailing list to be approved? We applied for https://edge.launchpad.net/~64-bit
<kiko> glade88, when?
<glade88> I applied for it about 4-5 days back..
<kiko> barry, ^^^
<kiko> glade88, let me get to the bottom of that
<glade88> okay.. ty
<barry> glade88: are you sure? i do not see a mailing list request for ~64-bit
<cgregan> kiko: ping
<glade88> it says it has been declined! :(
<barry> glade88: don't know why that would have happened, but here's what you should do
<kiko> cgregan, yo
<barry> glade88: open a question on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad explaining the situation
<barry> glade88: subscribe me ('barry' on lp) to the question
<cgregan> kiko: hey....just got off an OEM Services call with ChrisK and an idea came up
<glade88> barry: Jorge O. Castro mailed tuxxy that we cant have the mail-list
<barry> glade88: oh, well, i can't help with that :/
<cgregan> kiko: we are looking for a way to get priority on the emails from LP
<barry> glade88: you should talk with jcastro and get that cleared up
<kiko> cgregan, priorities?
<cgregan> kiko: Is there a system in the works where as a subscriber to a bug you could get a "high priority" email when you are also the assigned resource
<barry> glade88: if the decision is reversed, we will be able to fix that, but it will likely be about a week before we can do it
<kiko> cgregan, the priorities are available in the email headers. is that what you want?
<barry> glade88: (from a technical standpoint, not until after lp 2.1.9 is released)
<glade88> jcastro: ping
<cgregan> kiko: I get 200 emails or more but the ones assigned to me for comment look the same as those that are sent just because I am subscribed
<glade88> barry: ty, I'll ask him :)
<barry> glade88: np.  if the decision is reversed, do open up that question and assign it to me.  cheers!
<cgregan> kiko: Need a way to scan my lp email and quickly see the ones that need me to comment on them
<glade88> okay!
<kiko> cgregan, so highlight based on the email header
<cgregan> kiko: something like that....yes.
<kiko> cgregan, I'm saying you can already do that. :)
<kiko> cgregan, look at the X-Launchpad-Bug header.
<jcastro> glade88: hi
<tuxxy__> hey
<glade88> jcastro: 'lo.. we applied for the ~64-bit mail list
<jcastro> right
<cgregan> kiko: Ah-ha!
<glade88> it has been declined
<jcastro> right, I declined it this morning. Is there any reason you're not having these discussions on existing lists?
<cgregan> kiko: now...evolution or Thunderbird can look for that and highlight?
<glade88> jcastro: we though we could have a separate list exclusively for 64-bit users
<tuxxy__> we have no other mailing list alternatives
<kiko> cgregan, absolutely, it can.
<jcastro> I just don't see why you would need a seperate list for 64-bit users that can't be done on existing lists.
<tuxxy__> and would fond it time consuming sending a message out manually to 100+ users
<cgregan> kiko: you are a god!
<kiko> cgregan, am not! am not!
 * cgregan hugs kiko
<cgregan> :-)
<jcastro> I mean, I don't care too strongly, if you guys really want it then I guess we could but I would recommend that discussions happen on existing lists so it benefits people who are already subscribed to the main ubuntu-users list
<glade88> heh.. I just realized that I dont have much to say
<glade88> jcastro: it would be always nice if the team has a mail list. since the forums froup has about 118 members, its not very tiny I must say.. rest on you! :)
<tuxxy__> we ideally would like a list with peoples expertise being 64-bit Ubuntu
<jcastro> yeah, I just think that having things that are discussed should be on the main lists.
<tuxxy__> and to keep in contact with the 64Bit Team
<jcastro> If I'm a 64-bit user I would like to see that expertise on the main lists.
<glade88> hmm okay :)
<glade88> thanks
<jcastro> I mean, if you guys really wanted I guess we could, but like I said, I think it's better for everyone if that is consolidated onto existing lists.
<jcastro> then you end up with things like "ubuntu-parallel-port-users"
<glade88> jcastro: guess we really wanted .. lol
<glade88> lol
<tuxxy__> ok no problem, but an you exaplain to me how we are emant to mass message the group
<tuxxy__> *can
<jcastro> hmm, I see, one sec
<jcastro> tuxxy__: I see what you mean.
<tuxxy__> ye would take forever to manually do it so hoped you had an alternative
<jcastro> yeah. Ok, I guess a list will have to do
<tuxxy__> if you are sure
<jcastro> tuxxy__: unfortunately once a list is declined it's stuck in a bad state and I can't just reapprove it right away, can you subscribe to bug 237210?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237210 in launchpad-foundations "should be a way to delete/disconnect a mailing list" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237210
<jcastro> when that is fixed, please reapply
<det> I uploaded a package to the a ppa and it builds successfully on i386/amd64 but only amd64 is in the repo so far. It finished 13 minutes ago, is this normal ?
<tuxxy__> jcastro: ok completed that, how long does ti usually take a week or so?
<jcastro> tuxxy__: I have a phone conference to go to now, can you follow up with me on email if you have more issues? jorge@ubuntu.com
<jcastro> tuxxy__: after the bug is fix just prod me and I can approve it
<tuxxy__> no problem jorge, again thanks for that you have been a great help =)
<jcastro> no worries, cheers!
<tuxxy__> ill e-mail you in future then, goodbye
<tuxxy__> hmm am I correct in thinking that bug has been up since june heh
<kiko> barry, what's the status for the patch to fix the bug above? ah, it failed to land, right?
<barry> kiko-phone: it failed 3 times due to unrelated causes.  well, it actually /landed/ once only to be disappeared by pqm/bzr :)
<barry> kiko-phone: so, 2.1.10 it is
<kiko-phone> yeah
<tuxxy__> ahhh so its close to fix then
<tuxxy__> cool
<barry> tuxxy__: so close you can taste it
<tuxxy__> hehe yes, I think I can!
<Ursinha> barry, no more time to have it for today's release so
<barry> Ursinha: yeah, and kiko-phone wouldn't rc it :)
<Ursinha> oh, kiko-phone is a bad bad guy :P
<kiko-phone> BAD BAD BAD
<kiko> barry, so if that branch lands on edge does it help us at all?
<barry> kiko: we'd need to land it on the mailman server too
<barry> and xmlrpc-private
<kiko> barry, I'd be okay with it landing as an RC after we roll out tonight fwiw.
<kiko> barry, remind me of the bug number?
<kiko> found it
<barry> kiko: bug 237210 but 251368 bug 255845 and bug 191899 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237210 in launchpad-foundations "should be a way to delete/disconnect a mailing list" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237210
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 255845 in launchpad-foundations "Allow LP admins to delete a mailing list request that has been DECLINED" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255845
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 191899 in launchpad-foundations "renaming a team with a mailing list should be possible by admin" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191899
<kiko> barry, so.. let's land it post-rollout.
<barry> kiko: fantastic thanks
<kiko> Ursinha, ^^
<kiko> PQM n bzr allowing of course
<Ursinha> kiko, sweet!
<Peng_> What what? bzr+http support has been deployed?
<Peng_> Pfft, good job bzr. You read bits of signatures.knit about 225 times, then read the whole file.
<kiko> barry, how about getting some mailman branding love on its launchpad project? :)
<barry> kiko: thought there was!
<barry> time to break out the gimp?
<kiko> barry, not that I can see, so yeah :)
<MrKennie> is launchpad itself an open project or is it all written behind closed doors?
<Peng_> MrKennie: It's closed-source.
<Ursinha> yet
<MrKennie> uh, ok
<beuno> MrKennie, it's being planned to be opened next year
<Ursinha> beuno is always ahead of me
<beuno> Ursinha, I have template answers!  (I don't, but I should)
<MrKennie> the reason I ask is because I'm looking to become involved with something.
<Ursinha> hahaha
<Peng_> beuno: Oh, really? That's neat.
<beuno> Peng_, that's what Mark said at OSCON
<MrKennie> It's like I've been using some for of Linux for over 8 years now and I feel I want to give something back. (I have no money ;) )
<beuno> MrKennie, well, there's hundreds of open source projects around, so it really depends on what skills you have, and what you're passionate about
<MrKennie> everything but my skills are probably limited to web related stuff
<MrKennie> er, html etc.
<beuno> I wouldn't know where you point you at
<beuno> but I do know the marketing team is taking on a few projects
<beuno> so maybe you can drop by #ubuntu-marketing
<beuno> and see if anyone can fill you in
<MrKennie> OK, thanks.
<beuno> MrKennie, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam
<beuno> is a good start as well
<MrKennie> Ok, thank you. It's a start :)
<beuno> good luck!
<MrKennie> thanks
* mthaddon changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is going down from 22:00 UTC until 23:59 UTC for a code update | https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<_Zeus_> crap down
<wgrant> Yay, LP.
<wgrant> It just came back up for me.
<_Zeus_> ?
<_Zeus_> whoa
<beuno> yeap, it's up again
<_Zeus_> early
<_Zeus_> ya
 * wgrant wonders why read-only-launchpad still remains to be seen.
<jml> instructions! sweet, comforting instructions.
<wgrant> jml: Hm?
<_Zeus_> yay
<jml> wgrant: bugs that tell me what to do :)
<_Zeus_> launchpad=good
<wgrant> launchpad = good except when it does stupid things
<_Zeus_> yeah
<_Zeus_> i want it go to open-souce, though
<wgrant> They've said it will... and nobody will ever trust them again if they break their word.
<RAOF> Gah.  bzr-lp, accept my public key!
<jml> ?
<_Zeus_> wgrant: i'm sure it will eventually
<RAOF> jml: bzr branch lp:do trunk fails with "permission denied (publickey)"
<jml> RAOF: yeah. it might be that other systems are still being rolled out. I'll check.
<jml> RAOF: "patience" :)
<zeth> _Zeus_: on open source launchpad http://tinyurl.com/launchpad-conspiracy
<_Zeus_> whoa
 * jml raises an eyebrow
<beuno> well, Launchpad will be open source next year, so all those concerns should go away
<zeth> yup
<zeth> so that fits in with my theory
<zeth> they took two-three years to "open source", i.e. three years to write something *to* open source
<mwh> uh
<wgrant> The rest probably *is* just some Python and shell scripts... that what Python webapps often are...
<wgrant> +1 mwh
<mwh> an interesting theory
<zeth> one that no one has ever explicitly denied
<wgrant> Maybe their big secret is that it's actually written in Java. I wonder what other craziness I can come up with.
<wgrant> Ah, I know. .NET!
<zeth> that is not a bad one
<beuno> zeth, let me put it this way: today, Launchpad's full test suite, takes about 3 hours to run on a very powerful machine
 * NCommander smacks wgrant
<zeth> but if you had it in Java, it would not take you three years to port it to Python
<mwh> c'mon
<NCommander> Even Canonical can't be that evil
<jml> wgrant: actually, it's written in a custom Lisp implementation backended by PHP and this potato kiko found one day.
<mwh> php
<zeth> beuno: fiction
<beuno> "a few python and shell scripts" probably doesn't fit it correctly
<wgrant> beuno: sleep 10800
<zeth> show me the proof
<wgrant> jml: Oh, right, forgot that. Sorry.
<beuno> wgrant, lol
<beuno> zeth, well, if you're going to call Launchpad developers lyiers...
<wgrant> I'm sure we'll all be happy in < 11 months.
#launchpad 2008-09-18
<wgrant> And we will indeed see that Launchpad is written using COBOL on Cogs.
<zeth> beuno: I am not calling you a liar particularly
<beuno> wgrant, maybe we're using those 11 months to re-write all the visual basic into python
<jml> INTERCAL!
<wgrant> beuno: Or vice-versa.
<zeth> it is just that I take any software claims with a large bag of salt
<jml> PLEASE COME FROM 15980
<thumper> beuno: no perl -> python :)
 * wgrant stabs jml.
<beuno> thumper, I'm too scared of perl to even mention it
<zeth> like how Windows Vista was going to have a database backed filesystem that would revolutionise file storage
<wgrant> I guess somebody spent a while writing something to convert tracebacks from Language X to very convincing Zopey ones.
<zeth> beuno: the 3 hour test suite could be on all the open source deps
<Nafallo> wgrant: you're not on jabber. why do you hate freedom?
<zeth> I do not believe in things I do not have evidence for
<Peng_> jml: So bzr+http works now and is deployed?
<wgrant> Nafallo: I am a freedom hater :(
<jml> Peng_: the deployment is in process.
<Nafallo> wgrant: I know. I'll just have to show you the light in Dec.
<wgrant> That sounds dangerous.
<Peng_> jml: One of my new branches was successfully mirrored today. What else needs to be done?
<jml> Peng_: there's a known bug with mirroring Format7 branches over bzr+http, but that *should* be it.
 * Nafallo packs the infrared laser to eyestab wgrant with :-)
<jml> Peng_: I dunno :) The LOSAs are rolling out the new Launchpad _right now_
<beuno> Peng_, what's the deal with you and bzr+http anyway?
<Peng_> beuno: I felt like setting it up.
<Peng_> beuno: I kept it enabled as encouragement to pester jml about fixing it. :)
<spm> jml: nearly finished rolling out even...
<Peng_> jml: Well, that was a Branch5 branch.
<mwh> Peng_: you should check that the branch on launchpad is in the same format as the branch on your server
<beuno> Peng_, that's good enough reason for me
<Peng_> jml: What's the bug?
<Peng_> mwh: Ooh.
<jml> Peng_: lemme find it.
<zeth> For me, what launchpad should have is not open-source the glue code but server side SVN export
<mwh> Peng_: cause the bug is in this area of fun
<Peng_> mwh: Yeah, it was upgraded.
<wgrant> What does SVN have to do with anything, zeth?
<Peng_> mwh: That's the shared repo branch format bug that was fixed recently?
<mwh> Peng: well, actually, it will be branch6 whatever the source format, i think
<Peng_> Mine was branch5.
<zeth> wgrant, Well one thing I find difficult is that I develop with bzr, upload to launchpad, but then SVN users cannot download my code
<Peng_> It takes work to keep Branch5 around too.
<mwh> Peng: the bad part of this is that when launchpad comes to update the mirror it will go "oooh! the format has changed, i'll remirror the whole branch"
<zeth> so I know using SVN instead of packaging more often is lazy
 * wgrant wonders why anybody would voluntarily continue to use SVN.
<Peng_> mwh: Ahh, that bug. Awesome.
<zeth> but it is convienient
<Peng_> So it'll make hundreds of requests every 6 hours? Perfect.
<wgrant> How can it be more convenient?
<zeth> well it is pre-installed in lots of systems
<mwh> Peng: so we'll probably waste some of your bandwidth until we fix it (aka, upgrade the bzr we use to 1.7)
<Peng_> mwh: I'm glad I didn't reenable mirroring of my other branches. :D
<jml> which should be soon.
<zeth> and not everyone has authorisation to install new software in every thing
<mwh> Peng_: yeah, should be safe in maybe two days
<zeth> wgrant, it is more convenient to give people SVN link instead of alpha/beta release when you are lazy
<zeth> or are developing faster than you can package
<zeth> forcing people to use bzr to get code from launchpad is bundling
<beuno> or hg, or git, or bzr, or cvs...
<zeth> well if forcing people to use IE to use Windows update is bad
<zeth> then why should launchpad forcing bzr be not-bad?
* mthaddon changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<beuno> should we force SVN instead?
<zeth> I personally prefer to use Bzr
<Peng_> LP automatically disabled mirroring all of my old branches because of its bugs. Once this is all fixed, can one of you reenable them all, or do I have to go through and press the "Try again" on each one?
<wgrant> LP sucks. It doesn't support gopher.
<zeth> no I am saying that launchpad should offer multiple ways to get your code out
<Peng_> (Since all of them are abandoned, it's a waste of bandwidth and CPU anyway...)
<mwh> Peng_: we can probably do something
<jml> Peng_: we can probably sort something out
<Peng_> :D
<zeth> beuno: by offering multiple outputs, you are not forcing anyone
 * jml hi-5s mwh
<beuno> zeth, sure, if resources where unlimited, why not
<zeth> where > were?
<Peng_> There should be a "Try again on all" button or something, in case your server is down for a few days or something.
<zeth> well
<jml> Peng_: yeah. I also want an email notification of failed mirrors.
<zeth> I doubt it would be that hard
<zeth> since the work has been done on the client side
<mwh> that doesn't mail you for every branch you own when your server goes down :)
<jml> mwh: exactly.
<Peng_> Haha, right.
<jml> sabdfl was specific about that :)
<zeth> there is a plugin that allows you to use SVN using bzr, cannot launchpad adopt the same code?
<zeth> so you can provide choice to users of the code
<zeth> users of code hosted at launchpad
<thumper> zeth: github is bundling git
<thumper> zeth: and sourceforge is bundling svn
<zeth> beuno: but the where vs were is important, because the "where" inside your company, or "where" in the open source world is different levels of potential resources
<zeth> thumper: two wrongs do not make a right
<zeth> sourceforge should provide more choices then
<thumper> zeth: but three lefts are a right
<cjwatson> bundling is bad when it accompanies a monopoly. Simply providing two pieces of software together isn't evil
<zeth> sourceforge provide two?
<zeth> they provide CVS and SVN?
<slangasek> both of which are terrible :)
<zeth> both of which have a large installed base
 * beuno chuckles
 * Peng_ should file a bug
<jml> cjwatson: hello. :)
<wgrant> Oh dear, it's the attack of the distrogods.
<zeth> I am not saying I want to use SVN for me, I am saying that if I host code on launchpad, allowing people to check it out using SVN, which often comes in the OS, would be very helpful
<Romario> hi there, anyone a second to help me ? i am unable to push code to a branch since a few hours
<Peng_> Romario: Go on
<Romario> i am getting a message: Permission denied (publickey)
<zeth> Romario: have you tried after 00:00 ?
<mwh> Romario: launchpad is being upgraded
<Romario> yes
<RAOF> Romario: Launchpad was down, and is still not fully up.
<Romario> ah, ok
<Peng_> ...Oh
<Romario> maybe this is the problem
<Romario> it isnt too urgent so i'll try tomorrow
<zeth> Romario: http://news.launchpad.net/notifications/launchpad-offline-2200-2359-utc-17th-september-2008
<Romario> ok, thanks guys
<Romario> I'll be patient ;-)
<slangasek> wgrant: just waiting for the green light so I can kick an ubiquity update through soyuz :)
<slangasek> zeth: uh, I've not heard of any OSes coming with svn preinstalled
<wgrant> The topic suggests that it's up, but apparently not...
<slangasek> and if they do, they have my condolences
<wgrant> Haha.
<cjwatson> there's nothing to stop somebody writing a subversion plugin that knows how to read from bzr branches (well, apart from it being very difficult to do)
<slangasek> ooh, my cronjob is back, yay
<cjwatson> the bzr/svn integration that I think zeth must be talking about is the reverse of that, a bzr plugin that knows how to read from and write to svn repositories. adopting that code would not magically make bzr branches available by svn
<Peng_> bzr-svn can push back to svn.
<cjwatson> "a bzr plugin that knows how to read from and write to svn repositories"
<slangasek> it can; but bzr is a distributed vcs whereas svn is not, so there's an important asymmetry there
<cjwatson> that doesn't turn a bzr branch into an svn repository
<wgrant> cjwatson: It can, actually. You can push a branch to an empty SVN repo, AFAIK.
<wgrant> But it's pointless.
<cjwatson> that's little good if it's only one-way
<cjwatson> you might be able to set it up but it would be pretty hideous
<wgrant> There's little chance of it ever being two-way due to them being... rather different ideas.
<slangasek> it would give you a read-only svn mirror, I guess
<slangasek> but only of select branches
<slangasek> and with terrible revision history visibility from the svn client
<cjwatson> nobody else attempts to make repositories available in multiple formats, anyway. they support multiple revision control systems but you only get to use one at a time. that's because nobody else is quite that insane either :-)
<cjwatson> in fact launchpad is the only system I'm aware of that's trying to provide additional ways of checking out repositories on a large scale, by means of making as much of the world as possible available using bzr
<cjwatson> but that's one-way read-only rolling imports too
<bdmurray> "Duplicate Of:" is optional at a bug's +duplicate page?
<jml> bdmurray: yeah, you can make it empty to unset it.
<jml> bdmurray: confused me a bit when I first saw it, actually.
<bdmurray> right, but if it is already empty should it shouldn't be optional right?
<jml> bdmurray: I guess not.. I mean, it'd just be a no-op.
<mwh> most of the "(optional)" tags on launchpad are traps for the unwary or something
<hoop> hello
<hoop> please, what would this error mean?
<hoop> Permission denied (publickey).
<hoop> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
<mwh> hoop: codehosting is not yet back up since the launchpad rollout an hour ago
<mwh> hoop: will be back soon
<hoop> oh, okay :) thanks
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | bazaar.launchpad.net not yet back up
<hoop> mwh, is there a way to know when it is back, or I just try later?
<jml> hoop: try now :)
<mwh> hoop: yeah, it should be working now
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<hoop> worked! thank you =)
<barry_> python-dev
<lamalex> does launchpad's search support wildcards?
<lamalex> I'm trying to find a bug that I know exists but I can't remember the name, I know it has a < in the title though
<lamalex> that's all I know
<lamalex> nm, gmail found it for me
<vadi2> Can someone please help and stop launchpad spam, it subscribed several teams to one and this is not supposed to work that way: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/45313
<Hobbsee> vadi2: not at this time of day, but you'd need kiko, etc.
<vadi2> alright
<Hobbsee> vadi2: but i'd expect you should be able to undo that yourself.
<vadi2> I already searched everywhere.
<vadi2> I don't recall doing that to begin with.
<Hobbsee> come on launchpad.  Please don't take 10+ seconds to load a new page.
<Hobbsee> make that 30+
<Hobbsee> 35.992!
<Hobbsee> vadi2: is it just bugs, or all of it?
<vadi2> only bugs that I know of, those questions don't have answers and launchpad doesn't do blueprints
<vadi2> but bugs are bad enough
<Hobbsee> vadi2: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/getdeb-web/+subscribe
<vadi2> ahah...
<Hobbsee> vadi2: obvious, isn't it?
<vadi2> okay. I did do that myself. I thought I was signing up myself to those groups, not those groups to getdeb...
<Hobbsee> (not!)
<Hobbsee> ahhh.
<vadi2> ty Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> vadi2: y/w.  Do you know how to add yourself to the teams?
<vadi2> yeah, go to the team page and click join team
<Hobbsee> :)
<kirkland> how long does it take a team mailing list to get approved in Launchpad, generally?
<thumper> kirkland: not sure, but the people to bug are barry, flacoste and kiko (one of them anyway)
<kirkland> thumper: thanks ;-)
<thumper> possibly other people, but likely they are in the same TX
<thumper> TZ
<thumper> not texas
<persia> jml: Moving here to get back on-topic.
<jml> ahh yes.
<persia> In the specific case of a web service with a public beta interface, I think that "Fix Committed" and "Fix Released" doesn't do well for mapping issues.
 * jml neither
<persia> Essentially, one wants somehting "Fix Committed" when it hits VCS trunk, and "Fix Released" when it is in a shipping product.
<persia> For projects that have a tarball, this works.
<persia> For a web service, you have a moving target of your public beta, which maps poorly to the set of things that are Fix Committed.
<persia> IF you set these things to Fix Released, then you lose the ability to track what is actually in the production web service.
<jml> right. the thing here is that 'released' has an implicit destination.
<persia> One possible workaround would be to give a version number to each push to the beta interface (as a "release"), and then indicate which of those happened to apply to the production service, but that might be tricky.
<persia> So the (daily?) updates to edge would be e.g. 2.1.9.1, 2.1.9.2, 2.1.9.3, ...  and when 2.1.9 was finally pushed to lpnet, it would happen to be 2.1.9.22 or something, and edge would get 2.1.10.1
<persia> Mind you, I'm not sure how you guys tend to work, so this may or may not actually be a feasible workaround.
<persia> Also, there would need to be some sensible way to gather the set of things that were included in all published 2.1.9 releases for release notes when pushing to lpnet, etc.
<jml> yeah
<persia> Also, does anyone happen to know the bug number for the exceedingly small fonts?  I've seen a couple mentions about the issue, but none with a bug number, and find myself squinting today.
<jml> not off the top of my head.
<persia> jml: No worries.  I'm just hoping *someone* does, not you.  I'll search for it later if nobody knows.
<jml> a quick search found some older bugs.
<persia> Yeah.  That was my problem too.
<persia> There's some specific change in this series that generated some mail and IRC traffic, but that's not necessarily related to the older font bugs.
<jamesh> jml: out of interest, are you using testresources for anything public?
<jamesh> or just improving it for the hell of it? :)
<jml> jamesh: not for anything public yet.
<jml> jamesh: I want it to join my pyunit-friends movement.
<jml> jamesh: also, I'd like to use it internally in Launchpad.
<jamesh> jml: looks like I'm the only one who has been filing bugs against it ...
<jml> jamesh: I toyed with using it in Twisted a few years ago
<jml> jamesh: but I find it really hard to change Twisted, even when it's a good idea.
<jamesh> having an example of best practice use of the code would have been useful ...
<jml> jamesh: *nod*
<jml> jamesh: the reason I started working on it again is that we do a bunch of things that are kind of close to testresources
<jml> jamesh: but I felt that writing my own separate version wasn't the best approach.
<jamesh> I wonder if it'd be easier to use if there were some constraints on the actual resource objects
<jml> jamesh: well, my next plan is to have a base class for the resource objects.
<jml> jamesh: which will have setUp, tearDown and addCleanup.
<jamesh> resource dependencies would be nice too
<jml> jamesh: it won't be a constraint, per se, but it should make it easier to write them.
<jml> jamesh: that's in the revised todo, I think.
<didrocks> Hi there!
<jml> hi
<didrocks> I have uploaded in my ppa, two days ago a wrong version number of a package for iptables (1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1)
<didrocks> I ask for a removal, what has be done in LP
<didrocks> I know that we have to wait for 24 hours to have it removed from the archives
<didrocks> but it's still not done by the cron, apparently:
<didrocks> 2008-09-18 06:07:58 WARNING     iptables_1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1~ppa1_i386.deb: Version older than that in the archive. 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1~ppa1 <= 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1
<didrocks> (an so, my build failed because of upload)
<persia> didrocks: Indeed.  This is by design.  There is no way to recover sensibly.
<persia> didrocks: You could bump the version to something like 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy2~ppa1 but users will not then upgrade to 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1 if it is pushed to backports.
<didrocks> persia: during a ppa presentation, it seemed to me that there were an automatic removal within the 24 hours from the archives, did I dreamt ? :)
<persia> didrocks: Removal of the packages doesn't remove the listings from the blacklist
<persia> You could put it in a different PPA.
<didrocks> eventuallyâ¦
<persia> No today.  Just sign up for a new account.
<didrocks> I was so dum to forgot this ~ppaâ¦
<persia> didrocks: Well, maybe.  maybe you're using the PPA for something different than that for which it was designed (and no, I don't know towards what end it was designed, and don't think anyone currently does)
<didrocks> persia: so, a possible bypass is to use another ppa (I do not want people testing iptables can't then upgrade to the backport one, if accepted)
<persia> didrocks: Yep.  Each PPA has a different blacklist.
<didrocks> thx persia
<wgrant> You could also create a teamk.;
<wgrant> s/k.;/./
<persia> wgrant: Easier to make a new user go away when testing is complete from a merge than to make a team go away, isn't it?
<wgrant> persia: True.
<wgrant> Oh my god. Is there really no way for me to remove all of the CVEs on bug #270404 without severe pain?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270404 in vlc "Please update VLC to 0.9.2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270404
<wgrant> Why are there not checkboxes on +unlinkcve!?
<imyojimbo> hi, im trying to push a branch to lp , and i get "The server's host key is not cached in the registry"
<wgrant> That is normal if you're doing it for the first time on Windows.
<imyojimbo> so what do i do? it errors
<imyojimbo> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
<wgrant> imyojimbo: Bug #237297 seems to give a workaround.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237297 in bzr "Win32: The server's host key is not cached in the registry" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237297
<wgrant> But I'm not sure about how this stuff works on Windows.
<_mh> hi all -- I've been trying to lookup if bazaar has any tag replacement like svn for $Id$ $author$, etc -- is there some documentation anyone can point me towards pls?
<poolie> _mh, there's a plugin
<poolie> um
<poolie> i think
<poolie> https://launchpad.net/bzr-keywords
<_mh> I thought the plugin was called 'um' ; how clever am i? :)
<_mh> poolie, many thanks, checking it out
<jamesh> _mh: there is also the "bzr version-info" command you could use as part of your build process
 * wgrant dislikes things like $Id$
<wgrant> They make for useless noise in diffs.
<_mh> jamesh, I'll check that out as well, thank you
<jamesh> if you're doing a Python program, "bzr version-info --python" will generate a Python module that'll provide the info
<imyojimbo0> (i was disconnected, can u write again)
<imyojimbo0> im using bzr+windows. bzr push to launchpad fails on me, errors something about "The server's host key is not cached in the registry." and after that "bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions"
<wgrant> 17:40:35 < wgrant> imyojimbo: Bug #237297 seems to give a workaround.
<wgrant> 17:40:43 < wgrant> But I'm not sure about how this stuff works on Windows.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 237297 in bzr "Win32: The server's host key is not cached in the registry" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/237297
<wgrant> imyojimbo0: ^^
<imyojimbo0> i've read that page. i still dont understand how to fix this
<imyojimbo0> i understand i need to load the keys into the cache or something. dont know how
<wgrant> Try opening up PuTTY and connecting to bazaar.launchpad.net
<wgrant> That should ask you to confirm the key.
<wgrant> Once you do that, you should be able to use bzr.
<imyojimbo0> is bazaar.launchpad.net a valid ssh server?
<wgrant> It won't let you get a shell.
<wgrant> But it will let you connect.
<wgrant> (and throw you out, but that doesn't matter here)
<imyojimbo0> ok, its doing something now
<imyojimbo0> taking quite along time
<imyojimbo0> Created new branch!
<imyojimbo0> wgrant cool, thanks alot
<wgrant> imyojimbo0: Excellent! No problem.
<imyojimbo0> is this something thats gonna be fixed in the future, or is this the way it should be?
<wgrant> imyojimbo0: It's the way it should be.
<wgrant> bzr should perhaps prompt you better.
<wgrant> But it does fine on !Windows, AFAIK.
<Hobbsee> dear launchpad....what the hell?  No love, me.
<Hobbsee> can someone explain to me how bug nomination works please?
<Hobbsee> kiko: can you help me with this?  This used to work in an obvious way.
<Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/246269 - if you hit approve/decline on the last one, it pops up an approve button, and a decline button, on initramfs-tools.  What I want to know is which task i'll actually be changing, and hwo to change the lower tasks.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 246269 in linux-meta "Switched from vesafb to uvesafb, but uvesafb can't work without v86d" [Undecided,Invalid]
<gmb> Hobbsee: That's very weird behaviour. Let me see if I can reproduce it.
<Hobbsee> gmb: and the only reason the url is like that (re. flashplugin-nonfree) is because there's no obvious rune (such as bugs.lp.net/<bug number> or similar) to load a bug without a source package.
<gmb> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/bugs/246269 should work (though why we do that but not bugs.lp.net/$bug I don't know)
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 246269 in linux-meta "Switched from vesafb to uvesafb, but uvesafb can't work without v86d" [Undecided,Invalid]
<gmb> yes, thanks ubottu.
<Hobbsee> gmb: oh, so I tried everything but.  right.
<gmb> Well, we wouldn't want to make your life easy...
<wgrant> gmb: It's because distro nominations are stupid and broken.
<wgrant> gmb: They are across all sourcepackages.
<wgrant> This is broken, annoying, stupid and longstanding.
<wgrant> The similar JS bug just makes it more obvious, perhaps.
<Hobbsee> gmb: yeah, well.  I knew that much.
<Hobbsee> :)
<gmb> wgrant: Are there bugs filed about this?
<wgrant> gmb: Of course.
 * wgrant digs them up.
<gmb> wgrant: Sorry, silly question.
<wgrant> Bug #110195
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 110195 in malone "Nomination for a release on one source package shouldn't affect any others" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110195
<wgrant> Bug #162411, bug #262577 are also relevant.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 162411 in malone "Cannot target a task to a release if another task already targetted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262577 in malone "Nomination acceptance buttons shouldn't be hidden behind an almost-link with identical text" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262577
<gmb> wgrant: Right, thanks.
<Hobbsee> oh, that's only 17 months old.  A young bug!
 * Hobbsee --> dinner.
<wgrant> gmb: You're not likely to find an LP complaint of mine that hasn't been filed. Hence the "Of course".
<gmb> wgrant: As it should be :).
<gmb> Hobbsee, wgrant: So, JS problem is quite simply shonky JavaScript, but it arises, I think, from the fact that nominations are created at the bug level (even though they're approved or rejected at the bug task level).
<wgrant> That is a misfeature, but it looks that way.
<gmb> (Because the area that's supposed to be expanded is named after the nomination object, and there's only one of those for the bug, so all the approve/decline areas are named the same thing).
<wgrant> That's what I suspected.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: can you file the lack of relevant headers bug then too?  :P
<Hobbsee> gmb: right, OK.
<gmb> Hobbsee: to answer your question, then, if the buttons appear for initramfs-tools then they'll affect initramfs-tools.
<Hobbsee> and not the rest?
<wgrant> I wish.
<gmb> Checking now...
<gmb> Hobbsee: No, they'll affect everything. Which is bonkers.
<Hobbsee> gmb: oh, lovely.
<wgrant> That is bug #110195.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 110195 in malone "Nomination for a release on one source package shouldn't affect any others" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/110195
<Hobbsee> gmb: bonkers is better than what I was thinking.
<wgrant> Isn't it?
<Hobbsee> anyway, --> really @ dinner.
 * gmb files a bug about the JS, looks into 110195 in more detail.
<wgrant> AFAICT the misfeature in #110195 is quite deliberate. There must have been quite some extra work to make it create all those tasks.
<gmb> wgrant: Well, I'm not sure yet that nominations aren't just working on the bug level and appearing to look like they work on the task level, which really would be crackers.
<wgrant> Right, I guess it could well just be that the entire bug is nominated for the series. That would only manifest itself where one could have multiple tasks sharing the same set of series, ie. distributions...
<wgrant> But it is still surely extra work to make it work on a bug level.
<wgrant> Don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by LP's annoying project-centricity, I guess.
 * Hobbsee finally gets back from dinner.
<Hobbsee> gmb: oh good.  I'll hope for a less bonkers LP then.
<\sh> hmm
<\sh> looks like I don't get it somehow
<gmb> Hobbsee: it's going to be our codename for 3.0: "Now with 50% less crack"
<Hobbsee> gmb: woot!
<Hobbsee> gmb: but with 50% more useless features, which introduce more crack?
 * Hobbsee still routinely goes for any new people / team URL's she visits, and sticks their people in random countries.
 * gmb confesses he's been tempted to do that more than once
<gmb> I'm sure there's a team somewhere all of whose members are in Antarctica.
<\sh> if somebody can enlighten me, why http://paste.ubuntu.com/48000/ <- this is not working?
<Hobbsee> gmb: i'm in antartica.
<Hobbsee> (which I placed.  but still)
<mwh> \sh: you need to pass the service root in to the constructor don't you?
 * mwh is not here
<\sh> mwh: not reading the introduction.txt
<\sh> there it's just pass the credentials
<\sh> but reading launchpad.py yes
<\sh> gnarf
<\sh> yay...works
<gnomefreak> what version of LP are the launchpad-beta-testers on?
<gnomefreak> nevermind i see it in lower right corner
<Hobbsee> gmb: will it also be "and 50% faster"?
<Hobbsee> gmb: do you think you could get launchpad to load in under 6 seconds, on my machine?  :)
<Hobbsee> 20 seconds for the extremely long firefox bug.
<wgrant> Almost identical for me.
 * Hobbsee wonders how to list all open bugs, in everything.
<Hobbsee> oh, you search with an empty string.  right.
<Hobbsee> argh.  that incredibly stupid milestone bug isn't fixed yet either.
<Hobbsee> less maps, more fixes for incredibly stupid bugs, please :)
<NCommander> The Hardy, Gutsy, and Fiesty backports project is getting hit with a load of spam
<NCommander> Is there any way to magicially get close roughly 15-20 bugs on two projects?
<Hobbsee> NCommander: spam from what?
<NCommander> Hobbsee: This person opened 15 needs-packaging bugs, then added fiety and gutsy backports to all of them
<NCommander> All in bulk it seems
<Hobbsee> NCommander: have you tried speaking to the person yet?
<NCommander> No contact address on his LP profile
<Hobbsee> NCommander: you can use the mail interface, or py-lp-bugs somehow.
<NCommander> What mail interface
<NCommander> Ugh, now my mailbox is at 80
<NCommander> It was at 10 just 20 minutes ago
<Hobbsee> https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
<NCommander> Ugh
<NCommander> He's adding it to EVERY needs-packaging requests
<Hobbsee> NCommander: what's the user ID?
<Hobbsee> (not that I can do anything, but hopefully the bugsquad knows about him)
<intellectronica> NCommander: using the api?
<Hobbsee> intellectronica!
<intellectronica> NCommander: getting the list of bugs is not available yet (hopefully early next week), but if you have the list of bugs you can use the api to close them
<intellectronica> Hobbsee!
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~technical-ezekiel33
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: i have a request for LP3.0.
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: file a bug?...
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: it's bigger than that.
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: what is it, b.t.w?
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: write a blueprint?...
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: I want to see launchpad load times cut in half.  That means, loading a page on an australian connection, in under 6 seconds.  Do you think it's doable?
<Hobbsee> (australian broadband, that is)
<Hobbsee> and no more of these 20-40 second page loads.
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: load times are a combination of many things. but rest assured, this is one of the things that are high on our priority list for 3.0
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: i'm aware of that - but the rest of the pages i load take nothing like 12 seconds to load :)
<Hobbsee> (from a non-LP site)
<Hobbsee> and none take 40.
<NCommander> I never get these mythical 20-40 second loads
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: 40 seconds to load? that's terrible. please please please file bugs about such cases. we don't always know, since we only measure the time it takes to render the pages on the server, not how long it takes to actually load them from various places around the world
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: yeah, I had one of them earlier.
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: b.t.w you do cache, right? you're not loading all the images, etc, with every page?...
<NCommander> Hobbsee: the firefir EULA page :-)
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: I can try - i only recently started using the extended statusbar extension, which actually files them.
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: correct, i do - but that doesn't seem to help when starting from a non-LP site.
<Hobbsee> NCommander: that bug?  No, that takes 21 seconds.
<Hobbsee> er, s/files/times/
<Hobbsee> hm, 13 seconds this time.  It was taking 21 seconds when i loaded it before.
<NCommander> reboot time
<intellectronica> Hobbsee: also, to isolate load time from desktop slowness, try timing the load of the same page with wget or curl
<Hobbsee> intellectronica: that's true.
<flacoste> This is a bit tricky, as Wiki pages, many times, are a result of lengthy phone/in person discussions, so decisions like
<flacoste> priorities may be controversial with users.
<flacoste> I guess I'm a bit afraid that if the doors are too wide open, we may end up with hundreds of "PLAES IMPLAMANT THIS!!!"
<flacoste> comments. OTOH, that could happen with LP bugs today, so maybe it's just me being overly paranoid.
<flacoste> lol
<flacoste> damn button 2, i shouldn't select everything i read
<wgrant> Good to see it is being discussed, however.
<NCommander> Hobbsee: Well, two emails sent, and he still spams our tracker
<Hobbsee> NCommander: you might try to poke someone into finding an admin and asking them to remove his account, then.
 * NCommander looks to see if any admin is awake
 * beuno pokes kiko-afk and Rinchen
<radix> is there a way to share milestones between two projects?
<andrea-bs> radix: are they subprojects of the same superproject?
<radix> andrea-bs: they could be, but they're not now
<radix> andrea-bs: would that help?
<radix> I couldn't find a way to create a milestone in a superproject
<beuno> andrea-bs, I don't think you an share milestones among projects, no
<andrea-bs> radix: if the milestones of two (or more) subprojects have the same name, they can be considered "shared"
<radix> andrea-bs: does launchpad do something special, or are you just saying I could treat them as the same?
<andrea-bs> radix: you'll geto something like this: https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+milestones
<andrea-bs> in a sense they are shared because you can view bugs and blueprints targeted in the same page, but actually they aren't -- they only have the same name and superproject
<radix> ok
<radix> I think probably one of my biggest annoyances is that you can't edit the details of two bug tasks at the same time
<det> Does Launchpad have any advantages over Opensuse build service? IOW, why not use OBS for your repo for all you packages (fedora/suse/ubuntu/etc)?
<persia> det: As a competitor to PPAs, it may make sense.  For LP-hosted distros, it probably makes more sense to use Soyuz for the integration with Malone (uploads-close-bugs).
<DnaX> Hi, please, anyone can do it? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/44656
<DnaX> require a DB patch
 * beuno pokes kiko-afk again ^
<DnaX> who are launchpad admins?
<andrea-bs> DnaX: https://launchpad.net/~admins
<DnaX> thank you andrea-bs :P
<DnaX> kiko-afk: can you do a DB patch?
<kirkland> flacoste: kiko-afk: how long does it take a team mailing list to get approved in Launchpad, generally?
<flacoste> kirkland: it depends, can be instantaneous if you ask here!
<flacoste> kirkland: what list?
<flacoste> barry: ^^^
<kirkland> flacoste: ecryptfs, thanks!
<flacoste> kirkland: officially, we look at it daily
<flacoste> so a turnaround of one day
<flacoste> but, we sometime slack on that
<flacoste> but that should be fixed next week
<kirkland> flacoste: gotcha
<barry> kirkland: done!
<kirkland> barry: rock on, thanks ;-)
<barry> kirkland: np!
<kirkland> one more unrelated question....
<kirkland> is there a way to reverse sort the list of files at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kirkland/ecryptfs/release_tarballs/files for example?
<kirkland> i see sort=filename
<kirkland> but i want to reverse sort on filename
<beuno> kirkland, hm, no. But, if you file a bug, I will make it happen!
<kirkland> beuno: cool, thanks ;-)
<beuno> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead
<kirkland> beuno: https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/271787
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 271787 in loggerhead "reverse sort by filename in bzr browser" [Undecided,New]
<kirkland> beuno: thanks ;-)
<beuno> kirkland, your welcome  :)
<ignas> hi, how do I send a question to another project?
<ignas> i have https://answers.launchpad.net/schooltool/+question/45593
<ignas> but I think launchpad people are more qualified to answer it...
<andrea-bs> ignas: go to https://answers.launchpad.net/schooltool/+question/45593/+edit and change the "Project" field
<intellectronica> ignas: yes, this question would be more appropriate in https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar
<ignas> andrea-bs, intellectronica: thanks
<\sh> hmm...
<\sh> I just approved an app via api on stable launchpad...but logging in via credentials is not possible...now I wonder why
<thekorn> this happens for me sometimes too,
<thekorn> do you get an httperror or something
<\sh> thekorn: 401 Unauthorized
<\sh> the same credentials file on edge works flawlessly
<thekorn> oh on stable
<thekorn> is it even possible to use stable?
<\sh> thekorn: that I don't know..I can see my auth tokens on stable and on edge...
<infinito> is there any place where i can find some docs about ubuntu's launchpad-integration libs??
<beuno> infinito, https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib
<infinito> beuno: thanks!
<beuno> :)
<infinito> is it possible to use it to search for packages inside ubuntu??
<infinito> or is it just for bugs?
<beuno> I'm not sure how much of that is done in the API
<beuno> bigjools?
<bigjools> there's no Soyuz API yet
<beuno> infinito, that's a
<beuno> "not yet"
<infinito> hummm so no way to access...
<beuno> no, but there will be eventually
<\sh> at least...leonov works now with launchpadlib (at least on edge) now for the GUI parts (http://leonov.tv/content/leonov-launchpadlib-your-data-thats-me <- a first glance of what that can be)
<beuno> \sh, oh, very cool!
<beuno> congrats, it's looking good
<bigjools> beuno: right sorry, I was on a call
<\sh> beuno: well, it needs more, but that's just UI work and some bits of code writing ,)
<beuno> bigjools, sorry for what?  we got our answer, so thanks!  :)
<bigjools> beuno: for being terse :)
<beuno> \sh, if you'd like some UI tips, I'll grab a branch and take it for a spin
<beuno> bigjools, no worries  :)
<\sh> beuno: kde4 style and later on gtk/gnome style :) would be a cool idea...I'm a donkey regarding UI :)
<beuno> \sh, will give it a go then!
<\sh> beuno: just wait for a "go"...I need to push some stuff still to lp:leonov/leonov-kde (this is my kde branch)
<beuno> \sh, sure. Just poke when you're ready
<kiko> thekorn, \sh: the API only works on edge; ask leonardr or flacoste for details.
<\sh> kiko: just found out :
<\sh> )
<\sh> thekorn: we need to change py-lp-bugs...edge support is broken ;)
<\sh> cu tomorrow
<flacoste> \sh: you should
<flacoste> test on staging first anywya :-)
<leonardr> kiko, flacoste: what? is this a bug?
<thekorn> but staging is terribly slow these days
<kiko> thekorn, shouldn't be at least from my usage
<flacoste> leonardr: no, it's not
<leonardr> oh, kiko's saying that it only works on edge *and staging*
<leonardr> and not on produciton
<leonardr> speaking of which i should publish that blog entry
<thekorn> one other think: is it possible to not sync the oauth token of edge and staging?
<thekorn> problem with testing on staging is: yyou have to regenerate your oauth tokens each day
<salgado> thekorn, but you could use a token from edge on staging, as long as it was authorized at least one day ago
<thekorn> oh, sounds like a good idea
#launchpad 2008-09-19
<Hobbsee> sweet.  my launchpad catchall now works.
<jml> :)
<wgrant> Hobbsee: How? Not all of the emails have the right headers...
<Hobbsee> wgrant: X-generated-by: Launchpad (canonical.com)
<wgrant> Aha.
<beuno> gmail still can't filter by headers, right?
<Hobbsee> no idea, sorry, I don't use gmail much.
<Hobbsee> well, it only forwards everything that gmail doesn't think is spam, to my fastmail.
<beuno> I guess I'll keep fighting against my inbox for now then...
<beuno> hmmmm
<beuno> spam: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/228261
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 228261 in malone "The arrow next to add comment/attachment on the bug page is too large" [Low,Fix committed]
<beuno> any admins to close an account?  https://edge.launchpad.net/~metehanist
<beuno> kiko-afk, Rinchen ?
<beuno> that user is editing bug comments and filling them with spam
<NCommander> Can someone please ban a user from the gutsy/fiesty backports
<NCommander> ^trackers
<NCommander> He keeps subscribing bugs to these trackers despite multiple emails to ask him to stop
<Hobbsee> NCommander: still no admins around, it appears.  beuno's just asked for one too.
<NCommander> THis is getting insane
<NCommander> The trackers are now unusable
<NCommander> SInce we have almost 50+ items added
<wgrant> We need a way to vote people out of Launchpad.
<wgrant> Oh, nice spam.
 * wgrant wonders if we should revert them as we see them.
<beuno> I'd say revert, report
<wgrant> I guess somebody will have to trawl through notifications, unless we can get a sysadmin to work out how to revert them...
<beuno> wgrant, you mean bug comments?
<wgrant> beuno: No, description.
<beuno> wgrant, it's easy
<beuno> just go the the activity log
<beuno> see what they changed, profit
<wgrant> Ah, true.
<wgrant> Pretty much the one thing the activity log can actually be used for.
<beuno> NCommander, can you file a question about that?
<wgrant> beuno: It'll expire 4 times before anyone gets to it...
<beuno> I'll make sure to poke admins tomorrow
<wgrant> Won't it, Hobbsee?
<NCommander> beuno, can his bugtracker changes be unwound
<Hobbsee> wgrant: maybe only 3.
<wgrant> Tasks are not revokable.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: but essentially, yes.
<beuno> wgrant, I'll poke people  :)
<Hobbsee> beuno: can't you call one of the admins?
<Hobbsee> right.
<wgrant> Unless you can convince kiko that it's a good idea, I guess.
<beuno> Hobbsee, they're all either trying to fix something, or resting
<Hobbsee> beuno: sounds like you need more admins then, tbh.
<beuno> Hobbsee, I agree. I'll see what can be done about that
 * beuno re-pokes kiko-afk about that  ^
<NCommander> beuno, generally speaking, I'm now getting spammed at a rate I had to unsuscibe from the team
<Hobbsee> beuno: also, NCommander has been in here since yesterday about this.
<beuno> argh
<wgrant> Maybe there needs to be a superset of ~admins that can embargo accounts in an emergency.
<beuno> I'm sorry about that
<NCommander> So can we please get someone to call?
 * beuno re-tries
<wgrant> There should be a LOSA around now... spm, surely.
<thumper> NCommander: who is the offender?
<thumper> and yes, a LOSA can do this
<thumper> and the man is spm
<NCommander> technical-ezekiel33
<NCommander> I think he's opened now 100 new bugs
<NCommander> Or added fiesty/gutsy backport tracker to the existing bugs
<NCommander> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+question/45643
<beuno> NCommander, so, our safest bet is to wait for spm to get off the phone  :)
<beuno> if you see him move, jump on him!
<NCommander> Can you please mark this critical
<NCommander> Or something
<NCommander> He's currently adding more spam
<NCommander> and if automatic deletation isn't possible
<NCommander> Closing and removing all these bugs will be a pain
<NCommander> beuno, on an unrelated side note, can you setup super-groups?
<wgrant> super-projects?
<wgrant> Only ~admins can.
<beuno> NCommander, working on getting your question answered. And no, I can't either.
<beuno> I feel dirty saying this
<beuno> but file a question, and admin will get to it
 * beuno ducks
<wgrant> Was "duck"ing deliberate there?
<wgrant> It was rather well done, I must say.
<thumper> I've been thinking about super projects somewhat lately
<thumper> I'll talk with beuno next week about it
<wgrant> Super projects, projects, project groups... do they have any other names?
<Hobbsee> beuno: and come up with more and more elaborate responses each time it times out because no one responded?
<thumper> wgrant: :-)
<beuno> thumper, we've got quite an agenda for next week!
 * Hobbsee ponders finding out the stats on unanswered, expired questions from the lp guys, again
<thumper> beuno: we have an agenda?
<wgrant> Hobbsee: I suppose we'll be able to do that via the API soon
<thumper> Hobbsee: we have an api now :-)
<beuno> Hobbsee, I'm really sorry, I try my best  :(
<Hobbsee> wgrant: and cron it?  :)
<beuno> thumper, well, in my head and in some tomboy notes I have!
<wgrant> Indeed.
 * wgrant disappears.
<Hobbsee> beuno: i figured :)
<beuno> Hobbsee, please do continue pushing for a better response time, it's very much appreciated
<Hobbsee> beuno: heh, okay...
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> Still at it
<beuno> NCommander, working on it, working on it...
<NCommander> Sorry
<NCommander> Its just a little annonying :-/
<NCommander> beuno, what will happen to this user?
<beuno> NCommander, trying to disable his account for now
<NCommander> I assume he'll get a reason why his account got disabled
<NCommander> (I can see this guy, considering disgrad from multiple please stop notices will simply register another one and keep going unless its painfully obvious that he's unwanted)
<NCommander> The amount of spam has now suprassed the valid bug count.
<NCommander> \o/
<Hobbsee> NCommander: he's not kmos in disguise or something, is he?
<NCommander> kmos?
<Hobbsee> a problem bug guy / developer / user that we had.
<NCommander> I'm not sure if this guy is just stupid or not. He's subscribing old releases
<Hobbsee> probably just clueless, thinking everything should get updated.
<NCommander> (its generally noted that backporting requests for anything but the last release and last LTS generally remain unresponded to unless you ping it a few times)
<NCommander> Wait
<NCommander> isn't dmos the getdebs.org guy?
<beuno> NCommander, disabled
<NCommander> Well
<Hobbsee> NCommander: that's the one.
<NCommander> That stops the contining damage
<NCommander> How do we remove the now 150 bugs he's filed on two trackers
<NCommander> and remove them so they are actually gone (i.e., I don't want to see they if I search for invalid bugs)
<beuno> NCommander, this is as far as I can go at 9pm with no real admins around
<NCommander> *sigh*
<beuno> we can try again tomorrow and see what can be done
<beuno> I'm going back to my dinner now
<beuno> have a good evening everyone
<Hobbsee> NCommander: i expect they can do that at the DB level.
<NCommander> thanks beuno
<NCommander> Hobbsee, so freaking anonying
<NCommander> Its a pity you can ban idiots in real life
<NCommander> Uh
<NCommander> I think the ban failed
<NCommander> I'm still getting his emails
<Hobbsee> NCommander: it takes a while for the emails to stop - that's on a cron.
<NCommander> oh yay
<wgrant> Up to 10 minutes.
<wgrant> Though some do appear in the future.
<NCommander> Oh
<NCommander> That's ironic
<wgrant> What?
<NCommander> The very last messages I got were the bugs being set to incomplete
<wgrant> Hah.
<NCommander> (after he opens them all)
<spm> NCommander: 267982 should be the last bug?
<NCommander> spm, ?
<wgrant> I real live LOSA at this hour. Amazing!
<NCommander> I dunno
<NCommander> Sorry
<spm> wgrant: 10:22am? :-)
<NCommander> The trackers are so spammed up at the moment I'm not quite sure where things begin or end
<wgrant> spm: Yes, it's just a new thing to have a ~admins member that isn't on the other side of the world.
<NCommander> I dunno if he just read my email or not, but the last bunch these emails are things being set to incomplete
<NCommander> *sigh*
<NCommander> I can't tell if this is stupidity or not
<spm> wgrant: some would argue that canberra IS the other side of the world from the rest of australia :-)
<Hobbsee> haha
<wgrant> Hahah.
 * Hobbsee trouts spm, from the other side of the world.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Antarctica, no?
<NCommander> Spads, the highest bug I can see is 271575
<NCommander> But there ar elikely higher ones that got marked invalid
<wgrant> At least my positioning is within a few tens of kilometres. Or is it? Anybody could have set it!
 * NCommander likes that Hobbsee is in the middle of nowhere
<spm> NCommander: cool - ok is good to know there may be others. am seeing what I can do from a cleanup perspective atm. pls be bearing with me - may not be fast.
<NCommander> spm, well, its the older backport trackers which got spammed to hell
<NCommander> So they aren't as used as hardy-backports is
<spm> Hobbsee: as in a fish slapping dance type of trouting? interesting! :-)
<spm> NCommander: ok - I'm just doing a simple bugs related by date seach to start with
<NCommander> Pretty much bugs from the last 48 hours
<NCommander> There were no new bugs that were valid as far as I could tell
<spm> NCommander: cool
<NCommander> The bugs themselves are valid against the Ubuntu package
<NCommander> Its just the backports tasks that need to be deleted
<wgrant> s/deleted/invalidated/, I suspect.
<NCommander> wgrant, that would screw up search results if you look against invalid bugs
<NCommander> There is more spam ATM then legit bugs ever
<wgrant> I can imagine there would be some inconvenient references in BugNotification, among other tables.
<Hobbsee> spm: dance?  no, i don't dance :)
<NCommander> Launchpad needs a delete task button then :-P
<Hobbsee> wgrant: i meant sydney, but antarctica's good too.
 * NCommander teachs Hobbsee how to dance
 * Hobbsee refuses
 * NCommander drags Hobbsee onto the dance floor
<Hobbsee> now that's just mean.
<kiko-afk> what's meee
 * wgrant pushes Hobbsee into a pool.
<NCommander> Or amusing, depending on how bad you can dance
<Hobbsee> oy!
 * NCommander takes pictures of Hobbsee in the pool
<wgrant> kiko-afk: You are you.
<wgrant> Unsurprisingly enough.
<jml> except for the 'afk' bit :)
<wgrant> He has remarkable remote typing skills, I must say.
<kiko-afk> telepathic typing. somebody wants me to do something adminny?
<NCommander> kiko-afk, yes
<NCommander> make me an admin
 * NCommander runs
<NCommander> j/k
<NCommander> Two bug trackers of the backports project got spammed to hell
<wgrant> I think all the necessary users have been killed, haven't they?
<NCommander> wgrant, well, I'm hoping the bugs can be mass closed
<NCommander> I don't want to close 150 bugs by hand
<wgrant> SIGECUTE support in Launchpad would be nice, but we'll have to live with deactivation for now.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: and an IQ test on registering.
<kiko-afk> NCommander, eww, how gross. you've filed a question for that?
<NCommander> kiko-afk, yeah
<NCommander> kiko-afk, the abuse started yesterday, but your the first admin I caught
<NCommander> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+question/45643
<NCommander> Hobbsee, IQ is no indication of intelligence.
<Hobbsee> NCommander: then better metrics are needed.
<NCommander> No one has built an idiot detector
<NCommander> And even if they did, it would likely only work on imperial idiots and not metric
<NCommander> stupidity usually fails to cross international borders
<kiko-afk> NCommander, I'll look into this tomorrow. can you add a note to the question explaining why Invalid doesn't help you?
<NCommander> OK
<wgrant> We could always go with the idea given in the last panel of http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/taking-freedom-further.
<mwh> or do it in reverse: if half of the ubuntu devs pay 1c each, we deactivate the accoutn
<wgrant> Spend 10000 karma, deactivate an account :P
<mwh> better!
<wgrant> mwh: When did you join the league of three-character usernames?
<NCommander> \o/
 * NCommander joins the three letter league
<MAC> argh
<wgrant> Too many people seem to be doing it.
<MAC> ITs a registered nickname
<mwh> wgrant: well, about 7 years ago, but in the immediate case so i could op myself on another channel
<wgrant> mwhudson: Ah.
<mwhudson> oh, i exaggerated slightly
<mwhudson> Registered : Feb 27 17:10:59 2003 (5 years, 29 weeks, 2 days, 07:30:25 ago)
<jml> how do you get that statistic?
<wgrant>  /msg nickserv info jml
<mwhudson> (i came to irc a relatively long time after i got involved with open sourcey stuff)
<jml> cjwatson: hello
 * wgrant blames being relatively young.
<spm> mwhudson: I can appreciate the delay myself. IRC? 7 weeks ago. Open Sourcy Stuff (pre "Open Source" as a phrase) 1990. :-)
<mwhudson> spm: :)
<mwhudson> spm: old fogey, clearly
<spm> is *soooo* embarrassing finding those old emails and news postings appear now and then
<jml> spm: out of curiosity, were you in Canberra then?
<spm> BrisVegas
<mwhudson> spm: oh well, yes, we all have that
<spm> jml: moved to canberra in '91 - still consider myself a Qlder tho. go figure :-D
<cjwatson> jml: hello, but it's just an autoreconnect ...
<jml> was that back when Fortitude Valley was actually affordable?
<spm> jml: not to a Uni student
<jml> cjwatson: np. I'll try to get in touch with you some time next week probably.
<cjwatson> jml: oh, you actually wanted to talk to me? :-) Some people see an automatic reconnect as an opportunity to be social, you see ...
<spm> mwhudson: yes to the old fogey. :-) Still looking around in amazement wondering how/when I suddenly joined the grumpy old farts club. Weird... :-D
<cjwatson> what's up?
<mwhudson> spm: i'm probably older than the average for canonical
<jml> cjwatson: well, I'd like to have a chat with you about source package branches.
<cjwatson> jml: always up for that
<jml> cjwatson: even so late?
<cjwatson> well, you might not get very high quality of thought
<jml> cjwatson: because I'm happy to call you on your morning sometime next week :)
<cjwatson> ok, that works too
<cjwatson> I generally keep most mornings free of scheduled appointments
<cjwatson> so pick your time
<jml> 9am your time?
<spm> mwhudson: clearly we'll have to compare walking frames in tartan designs/colouring. w00t. the excitement and anticipation is causing my pacemaker to shock me. sweet.
<wgrant> Hahah.
<jml> you're in British Summer Time, right?
<NCommander> spm, his account has not been disabled
<NCommander> I'm still getting new messages
<jml> on Monday, that is.
 * jml thought that really hard but didn't actually type it. :\
<wgrant> Doesn't look very disabled to me...
<wgrant> Good god.
<wgrant> His karma page.
<spm> NCommander: interesting - appears to have been re-enabled - the fix we have/use should have stopped that from happening
<wgrant> Comments comments comments comments comments.
<NCommander> yeah
<NCommander> He's now marking each bug incomplete
<NCommander> Seems he read my email
<NCommander> (finally)
<wgrant> Oh, not saying "Sorry" to each bug spamming you hundreds of times?
<wgrant> Boring.
<NCommander> -_-;
 * NCommander cries
<NCommander> I've deleted 400 emails now
<Hobbsee> NCommander: advanced search is your friend.
<wgrant> Oh, nice. He's marked lots for feisty, gutsy *and* hardy.
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> And to top it all off, his account disabled, and yet he's still going
<NCommander> Nice to see that WONDERFUL engineering behind the account disabler at work :-)
<wgrant> I think spm just redisabled it.
<spm> wgrant: I did
<NCommander> Oh
<wgrant> As it looks disabled now.
<NCommander> Scratch the comment on the enginneering
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~technical-ezekiel33/+karma - that's really pathetic
<NCommander> He's got more karma then I do just from freaking bugs
<wgrant> Even I can't triage bugs that quickly.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: sure, but you're not a monkey.
<wgrant> NCommander: Just wait a few hours for the karma cache to update.
<wgrant> He'll have tens of thousands.
<NCommander> Well
<spm> wondering out loud: if - because he's logged in, he can still edit his account and thusly fix his email address. :-(
<NCommander> spm, delete his session
<Hobbsee> wow - i'd suspect that has to be using an api or something.
<wgrant> Oh, it didn't invalidate his session?
<Hobbsee> launchpad just doesn't load that quickly.
<NCommander> For each bug he's getting 7 points of karma
<NCommander> * 3 for each task he creates
<wgrant> That's a bug I must file - there's no way to invalidate one's sessions.
<wgrant> NCommander: How did you calculate that?
<NCommander> wgrant, file one bug, wait 24 hours
<NCommander> It goes up seven points
<NCommander> * 150 or so bugs
<NCommander> so ...
<wgrant> NCommander: Bug != BugTask, + comments.
<NCommander> Oh, and * 2 for each comment hes added
<NCommander> BAh
<NCommander> His karma going to cause a buffer overflow bug :-)
<lifeless> no account -> no karma :>
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~technical-ezekiel33 - his acocunt is back
<wgrant> lifeless: His account just won't die.
<wgrant> DELETE FROM Sessions;
<wgrant> Win.
<NCommander> He's got too much good karma
<lifeless> spm: need to nuke the details in the backend, then all the session info
 * NCommander runs from the bad pun
<wgrant> Is there a reason we can't revoke our oddly long-lived LP cookies from the UI?
<NCommander> I guess Launchpad re-enables someones account if you do something with it
 * NCommander remembers the rather interesting fun you have banned accounts on Sourceforge
 * wgrant disappears to a lecture.
 * NCommander begs spm to do something to make this stop :-P
<NCommander> Can you at least disable the backports trackers so they can no longer be spammed
<spm> NCommander: working on it!
<NCommander> At this point, that would be an improvement
 * NCommander notes that when spm fixes this, I shall throw a party in his honour
 * NCommander plays on Dogfood
<NCommander> beside dogfood and staging, which other LP instances are there?
<lifeless> NCommander: have you maanged to speak tot he dude ?
<NCommander> Well, it seems he got my email since I told him none of his backport request were valid and to stop filing them
<NCommander> I dunno if he actual read it or not
<NCommander> But there is no reply
 * NCommander is seeing if he can find any interesting bugs on dogfood
<spm> NCommander: have a possible solution in place - so let me know if more stuff comes in
<NCommander> You have 44 new emails
<NCommander> :-P
<NCommander> So yeah ...
<spm> the backlog may be a while :-)
<spm> NCommander: one *possible* workaround for your pain at your end - namely too much email - just filter on emails from him and delete???
<NCommander> Already done
<NCommander> Still need to keep an eye on the damage though
<spm> heh. the bigger stick approach :-)
<spm> sure - at this stage i'm in mitigation - cleanup is next
<NCommander> so what did you do?
<NCommander> Is his account finally disabled?
<cjwatson> jml: 9am on Monday is fine
<spm> while 1 disable forever :-)
<cjwatson> jml: (sorry for the delay)
<jml> cjwatson: cool.
<lifeless> ok
<NCommander> spm, I think your banhammer missed the mark
<spm> NCommander: in what way?
<NCommander> Still getting emails
<spm> older ones? his/her karma report is showing as 20 minutes ago for last change
<NCommander> Maybe its still the queue
<NCommander> But I'm getting a nice steady drizzle of emails :-)
<spm> good ol' dev null to the rescue
<NCommander> This reminds me of the South Park World of Warcraft episode
<spm> but agreed - is irritating that it's even an issue. :-)
<NCommander> "He's become too strong to ban!"
<spm> heh
<NCommander> Does he get a reason when he tries to login explaining why his account is disabled?
<spm> i don't believe so - hopefully they have the sense to ask why their account is disabled
<NCommander> spm, you could disable my account and I could tell you
<NCommander> or ban my account on staging
<spm> NCommander: that might *not* be a good idea. :-) lemme try against my local copy with a dummy account
<NCommander> argh
<NCommander> you have a local Launchpad
<NCommander> ;.;
<spm> sorta - in that it's a dev copy - but is useful for us (losas) testing breakables, upgrades etc
<NCommander> I just want my own copy of launchpad for Soyuz
<NCommander> Unless we could get Canonical to host and run a copy of publisher for us ;-)
<lifeless> NCommander: have you spoken to kiko ?
<spm> the flippant response to copy for soyuz would be: bug 50699 but I wouldn't ever be that evil :-P
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 50699 in launchpad-foundations "Launchpad should be free software (free as in freedom)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50699
<NCommander> lifeless, I talked in passing about it, but Soyuz's design doesn't allow publisher to be run across the internet securely
<NCommander> so unless Canonical hosted our archive, its not fessible
 * NCommander is rather interested to see what the admin interfaces of Soyuz looked like so I could learn how badly it slaughters dak
<cody-somerville> It isn't so hawt :P
<NCommander> cody-somerville, you've played with Soyuz's archive tools?
<cody-somerville> NCommander, you've used the PPA haven't you? :P
<NCommander> cody-somerville, of course I have. Xfce 4.6 :-P
<NCommander> I'm talking more for handling of ports, classification of package sections, NEW queue, etc.
<NCommander> All the things dak does, but does in a "fun" way
 * NCommander blinks
<NCommander> cody-somerville, you use pike?
<cody-somerville> Yes.
<NCommander> o_o;
<cody-somerville> Why do you ask?
<NCommander> I've never seen anyone else ever use it
<cody-somerville> My first programming language was LPC.
<NCommander> That explains the braindamage ;-)
 * NCommander runs
<NCommander> j/k
<NCommander> I shouldn't speak
<NCommander> I know Ada
<cody-somerville> :P I love LPC
<NCommander> you've got more icons than me
<NCommander> which is saying something
<cody-somerville> hehe
<cody-somerville> I'm slowing down in my old age :(
<NCommander> 27 vs 30
<NCommander> If I become an MOTU, we'll tie up :-)
<NCommander> correction, 28 vs 30
<cody-somerville> NCommander, That is until I start adding icons to the all the teams (https://edge.launchpad.net/~cody-somerville/+participation) I'm a member of that don't have one yet :P
<NCommander> cody-somerville, I think a constest is on between the two of us to see who can cause a scroll bar on our profiles to appears at 1024x768
<cody-somerville> NCommander, indeed. In the name of testing the scalability of launchpad of course :P
<NCommander> I think I have a more interesting set
<NCommander> Kubuntu and Xubuntu on the same profile :-)
<cody-somerville> NCommander, I /wonder/ how difficult it would be for me to get mythbuntu, kubuntu, and edubuntu? :P
<NCommander> Well, to get in Kubuntu, you need to actually commit some serious contributions
<NCommander> spm, my inbox has gone silent
 * wgrant looks suspiciously at /etc/aliases on fiordland.
<spm> NCommander: cool/good news. do ping me if any more new ones come back - still chasing on the proper cleanup method
<NCommander> spm, I'm suprised Launchpad doesn't have a despammer
<wgrant> It doesn't get hit too often, fortunately.
<Hobbsee> hmm. looks like there's no easy way to filter team-generated bugmail from user-generated bugmail.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: X-Launchpad-Rationale?
<wgrant> Or -Message-Rationale or something like that.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: it doesn't specify a user - only a team.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Ah.
<Hobbsee> that's what i was going to do - until i saw the headers.
<wgrant> Uh.
<wgrant> Launchpad ate my session.
<wgrant> Bad Launchpad.
<lifeless> wgrant: ITYM "no cookie for you, launchpad" :)
<wgrant> lifeless: Hah.
<wgrant> It ate a few of my POSTs, but at least it didn't redirect me to a login page causing me to lose the data...
<\sh> oh dear LP api devs...thx for making my life much easier :) http://leonov.tv/content/leonov-person-data-view-mugshot :)
<nedko> \sh: how is leonov better than a web browser?
<\sh> It won't change the UI so often :) and you will be able to work with your tasks offline...
<nedko> well, UI change that happened recently was for good IMHO ;)
<nedko> what tasks you can do offline with leonov?
<\sh> nedko: all your personal tasks (means: bugs)
<wgrant> nedko: The UI absolutely sucks when it takes >10 seconds per page.
<wgrant> Which is more often than not.
<\sh> and whatever tasks you want to cache/download on your local machine
<nedko> does it has interface to PPAs?
<\sh> nedko: if it's available through launchpadlib, sure
<nedko> is it?
<\sh> nedko: https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc/ <- right now, no
<nedko> ok
<soren> wgrant: Are other UK based websites as bad? I'll agree that Launchpad isn't superfast, but most pages come up in a couple seconds for me, I think.
<wgrant> soren: No, which is odd.
<wgrant> Latency is ~320ms. Maybe I just visit expensive pages.
<soren> wgrant: Example?
 * wgrant tries.
<wgrant> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soundconverter takes 10 seconds.
<soren> Not for me, it doesn't.
<wgrant> How long for you?
<soren> <!-- at least 164 queries issued in 1.28 seconds -->
<soren> And that feels accurate.
<wgrant> Mine took 3.3... but that doesn't explain it all.
<soren> WEll...
<soren> The thing is..
<wgrant> Is it really?
<soren> If it were all just one request with one big response, the latency would only count once.
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> But we've potentially got uncached images, plus the expensive SSL negotiation.
<soren> If you've got lots of layers of nested javascript or whatever, you get the benefit of latency each time.
<soren> Oh, yes. SSL negotiation takes what? three round trips?
<wgrant> Something like that.
<soren> Well, that's an entire second for you right there.
<persia> It's not just latency though.  It's slow here, but not as slow as for the antipodeans.  I have almost as much latency, but lots more bandwidth.
<wgrant> We need some Ethernet-enabled wormholes .
<wgrant> persia: How slow is slow?
<persia> Takes about 6-7 seconds for the soundconverter page.
<wgrant> Not too bad.
<soren> Still far from my < 2s.
<persia> Not like 10, but also not the 2-3 that I suspect is common in Europe.
<persia> My experience with trans-pacific networking is that latency is poor, and much more so for large data over public links, making me think there is an overall capacity constraint for Australia.
<soren> You're saying IP-over-didgeridoo isn't all it's cracked up to be?
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> Our ISPs are absolutely shocking. And don't seem to care about anything.
<persia> private fibre runs to Australia sometimes have *significantly* lower latency, while that's not true from e.g. here to Europe.
<wgrant> soren: I thought it was wet string.
<geser> firebug tells me for the sourceconverter page around 4 sec (from Germany)
<wgrant> I can get significantly lower latency to some US sites if I use my IPv6 tunnel, which indicates that one just has to get the routing right.
<geser> around 2 sec are for the page itself and another 2 sec for the images/JS/CSS etc.
<soren> wgrant: It might be tunneled through didgeridoos.
<wgrant> soren: True
<persia> I've encountered cases where I could route packets to each of Sydney and Melbourne from Tokyo, but not between the two.
<soren> geser: How can you tell? (I've just intalled firebug now)
<geser> soren: open the firebug console (the bug in the status bar), switch to the "Net" tab, enable it and reload the page
<soren> Ah. 2.46s
<wgrant> Hmmm, I must have unset SSL disk caching at some point. It's a bit less painful now.
<wgrant> Unfortunate that one has to delve into about:config to get LP to work acceptably, however.
<wgrant> It's still not gre4at.
<soren> Oh, i didn't have that enabled. Shiny.
<persia> Isn't SSL disk caching considered unsafe by many, and specifically recommended to be *disabled* by default?
<wgrant> It is indeed.
<soren> I imagine.
<wgrant> For good reason.
<lifeless> ssl is a single big hammer
<soren> I just so happens that my firefox cache is ecryptfs-protected, so *shrug*.
<persia> Isn't there a way to provide both cacheable and secure content without causing the browsers to complain?
<wgrant> No.
<lifeless> ssl + cache-control: public
<wgrant> Oh, that works?
<lifeless> wgrant: s/No./Yes./
<persia> soren: Except I can extract the contents with crafted scripts on a page.
<wgrant> I thought browsers ignored it.
<\sh> http://edge.launchpad.net/~shermann <- 3.34s <- 243KB <- 4KB from cache (whysoever because I deleted it)
<soren> persia: -v
<\sh> and when I interpretate the data correctly, mostly the images are the slowness factor
<persia> soren: cached content is available to the browser.  One can manipulate the cache with AJAX.  One can manipulate the DOM with AJAX.  One can make arbitrary HTTP POST calls with AJAX.  This discussion doesn't support -vv
<wgrant> Do I get a snake eating an elephant if I give -vvvvv?
<soren> persia: -d
 * persia was not compiled with --enable-aalib, and does not support ASCII art
<wgrant> Subject: Should be built with --enable-aalib
<soren> wgrant: Does pipelining help any?
<wgrant>   affects ~persia
<wgrant> soren: It does. Not much, but it is noticeable.
<gnomefreak> is LP slow for anyone else (or even PPA
<gnomefreak> i keep timing out on pushing to PPA
<bigjools> gnomefreak: URL?
<gnomefreak> its slow even opening my home page ~gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> it might be the map that is causing it
<gnomefreak> bigjools: https://edge.launchpad.net/~gnomefreak
<gnomefreak> still trying to load
<persia> gnomefreak: I don't have any different timing on that page than others recently discussed, except for the delay whilst I manually press the "it's OK to share secure and insecure stuff" button.
<gnomefreak> i dont get secure/insecure stuff
<bigjools> gnomefreak: your page loads in about 2 seconds here
<gnomefreak> it just finished
<gnomefreak> speed in n-m says 100 Mb/s
 * persia is amused at the ease with which a mailing address can now be collected from LP.
<gnomefreak> it looks to be me. im trying to ping google
<gnomefreak> its not getting anywhere :(
<wgrant> persia: Oh? How?
<persia> Well, it's not reliable, but the map helps.
<wgrant> Ah, yes.
<wgrant> LP does know lots of addresses, but unfortunately doesn't expose them through the API.
<\sh> hmmm...
<wgrant> Lies.
<\sh> lpapi: person object -> confirmed_email_addresses collection -> the collection has only all email addresses but without the prefered email address...or
<salgado> \sh, bug 254696
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254696 in launchpad-foundations "preferred_email_address is not included in confirmed_email_addresses" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254696
<\sh> aye
<NCommander> spm, your ban failed
<NCommander> He's still at it
<beuno> oh, spm's probably sleeping like a bay by now
<beuno> *baby
<wgrant> 2332. Not too late.
<beuno> but we have kiko, who has the best super powers of all
<wgrant> Indeed.
 * NCommander turns on the kiko light
<wgrant> What's this? malone-me-too is appearing? Yay!
 * wgrant adds comments on all of the bugs to express his support for the idea.
<beuno> wgrant, courtesy of intellectronica
<intellectronica> wgrant: yup, i'm just working on it now. should have it available real soon
<wgrant> intellectronica: Good news indeed. Likely to happen for 2.1.9?
<elmo> NCommander: who's at what?
<wgrant> That guy who just won't die. I forget his name.
<intellectronica> wgrant: for 2.1.9? no way, that's history :)
<wgrant> technical-ezekiel33
<wgrant> intellectronica: Er, 2.1.10.
<intellectronica> wgrant: but very likely to happen for 2.1.10
<wgrant> edge still seems to be convinced that it's on 2.1.8.
<intellectronica> wgrant: i think there's a final roll out in half hour or so
<NCommander> Two of the backports trackers got badly spammed to hell
<wgrant> NCommander: Has he given a rationale for it yet?
<NCommander> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/262614
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 262614 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] NewGenLib - integrated library management system (ILS)" [Undecided,New]
<wgrant> Hahha.
<wgrant> "But now I had been having trouble logging on and remaining at the launchpad site."
<NCommander> I'm telling him what he did was spam, it was rude, and he's made the backport trackers unusable, as well as spammed all backports developers due to the backscatter
<kiko> wgrant, it's just a bug in the actual release number. it's fixed in code but still needs to be rolled out; will be at 16:00 utc today
<kiko> wgrant, as for the logging out problem, it's related to feeds -- flacoste and EdwinGrubbs are working on it.
<NCommander> kiko, can we have his bugs removed completely from our trackers?
<wgrant> kiko: Ah, right, and edge hasn't been updating due to the DB changes?
<NCommander> (I don't even want to see them if I search for invalid bugs)
<wgrant> kiko: Good to know. Is there a reason that I can't induce such logging out myself? It would be useful if I could revoke sessions from a remote machine that I may have left a cookie on.
<kiko> NCommander, you'll need to  present a pretty strong justification to do so as we have never done so in the past (and it is opposite to the spirit of the bug tracker)
<kiko> NCommander, it /is/ equivalent to invalid
 * NCommander sighs
<NCommander> kiko, can we at least mass change all the bugs to invalid?
<NCommander> I really don't want to change 150-ish bugs by hand
<wgrant> kiko: I daresay that opening several hundred tasks is also against the spirit of a bug tracker.
<kiko> NCommander, yeah, that we can do, though it may be quicker for you just to use the API to update them?
<wgrant> But it is a messy situation.
<NCommander> kiko, I'm worried about the backscatter of email
<NCommander> All the backport admins got flooded twice by this guy, I don't want to be response for another 150 emails
<NCommander> My main justification for deletation vs. just marking it invalid is that if I browse all bugs, I get to see these pointless tasks.
<kiko> wgrant, to reproduce the issue you need to subscribe to a feed.
<kiko> wgrant, that's what logs you out
<wgrant> kiko: Ahh, indeed. I use Liferea for feeds, but accidentally hit the feed button in the address bar when attempting to bookmark something this morning.
 * NCommander tries to word his response in a way that doesn't break the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
<wgrant> kiko: Thanks for the explanation.
<kiko> NCommander, challenging! we can definitely do a DB update invalidating them, though you might get complaints that the email history of the bug was lost..
<NCommander> kiko, what email history?
<kiko> wgrant, you're welcome. I don't think there's a fix out yet, but there will be
<NCommander> He only added tasks expect on two bugs
<kiko> NCommander, every bug change leaves an email trail.
<NCommander> Damn it
<kiko> NCommander, so if we do a straight update, bug activity and the email trail won't exist
<NCommander> Can you just zap the task, and leave the comments?
<NCommander> Oh I see
<NCommander> That's an anonying issue
<NCommander> What you need is a Deleted status to get things to completely disappears
<NCommander> (keep them in the DB, but only admins can see them)
 * wgrant -> bed
 * NCommander eats wgrant's bed
 * wgrant falls onto the floor. Damn.
<NCommander> \o/!
<NCommander> I think I'm going to need a second set of eyes to look at my response to make sure I don't break the CoC
<NCommander> Is there a page on how to appropriately use the bug tracker?
<NCommander> http://pastebin.ca/1205849 - kiko, mind looking at this to see if its an acceptable response to this guys millions of bugs
<persia> NCommander: What I suspect is the best way to address your pain is to make it clear on the backporting page that backport requests are only accepted for packages *already* in the repositories, and then reference that in your reply.
<kiko> there are many, but that people can't open backports tasks sounds more like Ubuntu policy
<persia> It's an Ubuntu-specific problem, although launchpad has the levers to beat the person causing the issue
<NCommander> persia, I emailed him during the billion bug march, which is why he started refiling all the bugs incomplete
<persia> kiko: It's not that they can't, it's that they shouldn't.
<kiko> persia, we can disable his account, and we could probably throttle actions on the bugtrackers (can't update more than N bugs in 24h) but we'd have to figure out how not to annoy seb128 with that..
<persia> kiko: The pain is caused by excessive enthusiasm, as much as anything else.  Might it be interesting to have a "too enthusiatic" mode to calm the very active, or is that counter to the model envisioned?
<persia> Yeah.  That's the trick.  There are those who are both enthusiastic and correct :/
<kiko> persia, no, that's a good idea, but it's hard to tell programatically who should be throttled and who should't
<persia> kiko: Could it maybe be a per-project button that could give someone a 24-hour cool-down for excessive enthusiasm?
<persia> That wouldn't likely hit seb128, but would give something other than calling for a LOSA if someone needed some time to learn.
<kiko> persia, I think at that point the guy's already filed the 150 tasks
<persia> Maybe the button is restricted to some specific team for each project.
<persia> kiko: Yes.  I don't think there's a good way to solve the past.  I'm just tossing ideas for the future.
<NCommander> how about a per project banhammer
<kiko> heh
<kiko> yeah, that's come up before too
<kiko> I think the best idea I've seen is captchas for unvalidated users
 * NCommander starts marking bugs invalid
<persia> How does a user become validated?  Membership in some team?
<NCommander> At least I'll be rolling in karma
<kiko> persia, well, it's also a good question
<persia> I'm not really that much in favour of captchas because it breaks launchpadlib use cases.
<persia> As much as anything, it seems there ought to be something that a project team can do to cause a pause whilst the social issues are sorted, rather than coming here to seek a technical sledgehammer.
<NCommander> when all you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail
<persia> While that's open to abuse from repeatedly bashing the button, it seems less invasive than the ban (fairly easy to work around, as has been previously shown), or something that only works for some given interface.
<persia> NCommander: Right.  Which is why it's a good idea to design a multitool before you encounter too many problems :)
 * NCommander steals kiko's hammer and promptly pokes his own eye out
<NCommander> .-)
<rexbron> hey, I am getting an error which basically states a bug that has dupes can be made a dupe of another bug without removing all the dupes from the first bug. Is there a documented rational for this behavior (as it seems to me to be just aditional work)?
* herb changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is going down from 16:00 UTC until 17:00 UTC for a code update. | https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<kiko> rexbron, the rationale is that dupes should all point to one bug -- we don't do nested dupes
<kiko> it's much simpler to people following dupes up
<geser> kiko: can't LP update the dupes on itself? Given two bugs with 10 dupes each and when it turns out to be the same problem, it's annoying work to update all the dupes before can dupe the bug itself
<rexbron> kiko: I think geser has a point. I understand your rational but perhaps we could add a check box along the lines of "reassign all dupes of this bug to the specified bug"
<matsubara> rexbron, geser: that's bug 78596
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 78596 in malone "Automatically handle moving duplicates across when duplicating a bug with dupes" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78596
<savvas0> argh.. the site says "19th November 2008  from 22.00 UTC for up to two hours"
<savvas0> http://news.launchpad.net/maintenance - can someone fix the typo and/or fat finger? :)
<IntuitiveNipple> Did someone pull the plug out?
<savvas0> looks like they pulled it a bit earlier
<savvas0> :)
<IntuitiveNipple> thanks... was wondering if it was a problem at my end
<savvas0> they updated the topic some minutes ago hehe
<IntuitiveNipple> Shame they didn't update the maintenance web-page the Off-line message links to :)
<IntuitiveNipple> Always happens *just* after I've given someone the URL, too !
<savvas0> IntuitiveNipple: did you manage to fix that xulrunner bug that couldn't open .txt files from the forums?
* beuno changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is going down from 16:00 UTC until 17:00 UTC for a code update. | https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Un-planned downtime going on, Launchpad should be back soon!
<beuno> :)
<savvas0> much better beuno thanks :P
<beuno> savvas0, no problem, and sorry for the inconvenience. Many things happening at the same time  :)
<savvas0> ah no problem really, just do your magic!
<IntuitiveNipple> savvas0: Yes, there's a package in my PPA
<savvas0> ok, i'll see if I can test it later :)
<_Zeus_> boohoo
<beuno> it will come back soon  :)
<_Zeus_> k *sniff(
<_Zeus_> :P
<beuno> if you need to look at something
<beuno> you can use staging
<beuno> which has 24h-old data
<mdz> how long is this maintenance window?
<_Zeus_> oh? how do you do that?
<mdz> I thought it wasn't starting until 2200 UTC
<beuno> _Zeus_, https://staging.launchpad.net/
<mdz> kiko-phone: hey
<beuno> mdz, maybe another 30 minutes
<beuno> maybe less  :)
<mdz> beuno: thanks
* beuno changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is going down from 16:00 UTC until 17:00 UTC for a code update. | https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<beuno> it's back!
<_Zeus_> YAY!
<mdz> beuno: the web service is up, but I can't seem to access bazaar.lp.net
<mdz> it connects, but can't authenticate me
<beuno> mdz, it usually takes a few extra minutes for codehosting to come back up
<beuno> let me check though...
<_Zeus_> when you say bazaar.lp.net, do you mean bazaar.launchpad.net?
<_Zeus_> or does ubuntu own lp.net
<beuno> _Zeus_, he means bazaar.launchpad.net
<_Zeus_> ok
<beuno> just that we all write that too many times  :)
<mdz> beuno: working now
<beuno> mdz, :)
<_Zeus_> ah, i get it
* herb changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
<Nutzebahn> Hello.
<Nutzebahn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/272210
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 272210 in ubuntu "Megatunix needs to be packaged and added to the repository." [Undecided,New]
<Nutzebahn> Cool bot. :)
<kiko> barry, I'm interested in knowing if your mailman RC landing allows us to unblock all those ML requests!
<barry> kiko: in a meeting, but yes, they should
<kiko> cool
<BlackMBC> Hi, is there a team member I could talk to regarding a launchpad user account?
<Peng_> I don't know. Go on? Maybe you should go to https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<BlackMBC> It's about an account I created some years ago and now I don't know the mail adress anymore... I'll try your link, thanks.
<wgrant> It all depends on the type of question. Might be best just to ask here and see if anybody answers.
<wgrant> In that case, Peng_'s link is correct.
<Peng_> Go Peng_.
<Peng_> :)
<BlackMBC> Thanks again, and bye
<Rinchen> hmm
<Rinchen> looks like I just missed him
#launchpad 2008-09-20
<elmo> how do I link a bug to an upstream one?
<wgrant> elmo: "Also affects project"
<wgrant> Find the project, and paste the bug URL into the appropriate box.
<wgrant> And hope it works.
<wgrant> Which it does in a lot of cases now, particularly since it started automatically creating bugtrackers.
<elmo> I don't need this upstream link molarkey for the distro source package?
<wgrant> You don't need it, but it helps.
<wgrant> It sets the default for when you click "Also affects project"
<wgrant> Compare https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/soundconverter/+bug/260853/+choose-affected-product and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/convertall/+bug/224049/+choose-affected-product
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260853 in soundconverter "Write ID3 tags to converted files" [Wishlist,New]
<wgrant> Hmm, a product reference in the UI.
<elmo> "<structured-string 'Invalid series given.'>"
<elmo> \o/
<elmo> what a sweet pop up
<wgrant> Hah.
<wgrant> I keep away from those pages in general.
<wgrant> As they're rather unmaintained.
<wgrant> Would one file bugs against -foundations or soyuz for those pages?
<elmo> not soyuz, I don't think
<_Zeus_> am i the only one annoyed by that long thing at the right on launchpad?
<_Zeus_> the thing that makes the page so much longer
<wgrant> On which page?
<wgrant> The only horrifyingly long one is the Ubuntu tag list.
<wgrant> (that I know of, that is)
<wgrant> And I know most parts of LP pretty well.
<_Zeus_> yeah, that one
 * NCommander wonders whats in the PPA admin menu
<wgrant> NCommander: Hm?
<NCommander> wgrant, https://edge.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/+admin
<NCommander> Or equivelent PPA admin URL
<wgrant> Making it private, probably.
<NCommander> I wonder if there is any other magic in that menu :-P
<NCommander> Like a switch to enable it to use real vs. virtual builders
<NCommander> wgrant, do any projects have private PPAs AFAIK?
<wgrant> IIRC that's implicit in being a P3A.
<NCommander> P3A?
<wgrant> PPPA. Private PPA.
<NCommander> Suspose the next question is how do you get a PPPA :-)
 * NCommander runs
 * NCommander also wonders how wgrant knows so much about launchpad's internals
<wgrant> As do I.
<NCommander> PPPA or your knowledge of the internals of LP?
<wgrant> The latter.
<NCommander> I think your really kiko, and the wgrant aspect is just a split personality
 * NCommander runs
<elmo> Private PPAs are still in development, but they're going to be used for security
<elmo> as one example
<NCommander> Very handy
 * NCommander figured the security usage
<wgrant> Would it be wrong to file two duplicates of bug #2088 in order to bring the list on https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+filebug into order?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 2088 in launchpad-foundations "psycopgda reconnection and conflict handling" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2088
<wgrant> Er, hm.
<wgrant> It seems indecisive.
<NCommander> wgrant, er, what?
<wgrant> Ah, wrong tab.
<wgrant> Just noting that the list on one of the Launchpadish projectish was slightly out of order.
<wgrant> But not that one.
<wgrant> I have too many tabs open.
<NCommander> elmo, is it possible to have a PPA work on normal builders vs. the virtual ones? (I ask only because for some PPAs like xubuntu-dev, it would be nice to see powerpc binaries for those of us who use that architecture ;-))
<wgrant> NCommander: Port Xen to PowerPC!
<NCommander> wgrant, http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenPPC/Build
<NCommander> already don e
<wgrant> Damn. m68k, then.
<NCommander> So first you want me to port Ubuntu to m68k?
<NCommander> k
<elmo> NCommander: not being funny, but didn't we have this discussion already?
<NCommander> No, that discussion was using qemu
<elmo> NCommander: because PPAs can install their own packages as build dependencies, it's a firm requirement that they use a strong virtual sandboxed enviroment
<NCommander> Right, I know that, for general usage
<NCommander> I was just noting that I actually use Xubuntu (server install, then xubuntu-desktop) on my PPC, and its kinda anonying I can't use the beta packages right out of the box on it
<elmo> (btw, Xen/PowerPC has hardware requirements that we don't meet)
<NCommander> ah
<NCommander> THat explains that and ends that discussion ;-)
<NCommander> Man, I'd thought that PPC was totally dead, but there are 2962 active Ubuntu PPC machines
<elmo> NCommander: sure, I appreciate it's unideal, and I'd love to be able to support !x86 arches for PPA someday, but honestly, I don't know when anyone's going to get the time to explore alternatives
<NCommander> elmo, I'll probably look into it once LP is open
 * NCommander finds it amusing he has or has access to every Ubuntu port
 * wgrant cries.
 * _Zeus_ backs off...
<wgrant> I'm trying to file bugs on the DSSP<->Product linkage pages.
<wgrant> But I keep finding more.
<wgrant> Not more bugs, more pages.
<wgrant> I think all 6 that I've found so far can have a bug reported on pretty much every element.
<wgrant> So far I've found <DSSP>/+edit-packaging, <DSSP>/+packaging, <Product>/+packages, <Product>/+distributions, <ProductSeries>/+ubuntupkg, <ProductSeries>/+addpackage
<wgrant> So there are three instances of each of the two types of pages.
<wgrant> A couple of the pages expose information about the links that isn't visible on any of the other five, nor the SP page.
<NCommander> DSSP?
<wgrant> DistroSeriesSourcePackage
<NCommander> are you sure on addpackage
<NCommander> I don't get a Permission Denied on that one
<wgrant> Right, the permissions differ for ubuntupkg and addpackage.
<wgrant> For no good reason that I can see.
<NCommander> What's ubuntupkg?
<NCommander> (no, I get Lost Something page, not permission denied)
<wgrant> ProductSeries/+addpackage, not Product.
<NCommander> still getting lost something
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+addpackage
<NCommander> how badly do I fail ;-)
<wgrant> That's a distroseries.
<NCommander> oh
<NCommander> so then whats a ProductSeries vs. a DistroSeries
<wgrant> Product is the old name for project. Still used internally and in places they've forgotten it in the UI.
<wgrant> So a project series.
<NCommander> Oh I see
<NCommander> BTW, wgrant, they fixed having Releases for distributions
<NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/nexenta/hardy - i.e.
 * NCommander wishes it was possible to run a publisher instance for Nexenta, but meh :-P
<wgrant> Yep, I noticed that.
<NCommander> I do hope LP gets the ability to seperate publisher from Soyuz so it would be possible for us to use LP's archive tools without having to run a seperate LP instance
<NCommander> (once LP is open)
<wgrant> Publisher is part of Soyuz...
<NCommander> right
<NCommander> Essentially, what I'm saying is having all archive functions controlled via launchpad.net, but hosting our own infrastructure
<NCommander> I'm told to do that, publisher would require work to seperate it from Soyuz, or Storm would require modification to work across the internet
<NCommander> ^securely
<NCommander> barry, hola
<NCommander> (and beuno-afk ping)
<markh> I've pushed a branch to launchpad under my username (ie, lp:~mhammond/...) when I really want it under one of the groups - can I move it?
<wgrant> markh: Sure, click on the edit button next to the branch's title.
<markh> wgrant: ahh, I see now - thanks
<nijaba> hello. I'm getting a trying to get to http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/vmbuilder/trunk/revision/198 and get a "please try again error", normal?
<markh> nijaba: me too on a different branch
<nijaba> markh: ok, I feel better now . I know that I am not alone ;)
<RAOF> Works for me, now.
<markh> still not for me
<jml> are there any OOPS codes?
<wgrant> Loggerhead doesn't OOPS, does it?
<markh> working now!
<wgrant> jml: Can you please explain why I got the error that caused me to file bug #272304?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272304 in launchpad-bazaar ""User timeout caused connection failure." doesn't make sense" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/272304
<jml> wgrant: nope, sorry, there's not enough info there. what were you doing? with which branch? time would also be good in case we have to check the logs.
<wgrant> jml: It's still there now: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/ubuntu-cve-tracker/mainold
<jml> wgrant: ok. that means that the branch timed out when being mirrored to the public area.
<wgrant> jml: Ahh. Thanks.
<jml> wgrant: why it timed out is another interesting question.
<wgrant> It is an old knit branch.
<wgrant> With an awful lot of files.
<jml> well, the size per se doesn't matter
<jml> it's more a question of how granular bzr's progress reporting is.
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> I find it awful for knits.
<jml> then, that's quite possibly the problem.
 * wgrant might try his luck recreating that as a stacked branch.
<jml> you can trigger a re-mirror using launchpadlib (but I don't have the right incantation handy), or by doing a trivial write to the branch.
<wgrant> I need to upgrade it, and an upgrade will take forever. I'll just recreate it.
<wgrant> (particularly as I think it's all merged)
<jml> well, upgrading your local copy and pushing won't be so bad
<jml> oh, if it's merged... :)
 * jml -> risotto
<wgrant> Mmm, risotto.
<wgrant> It's an ongoing branch, but I think it's all in master now.
<wgrant> Thanks for the help.
<wgrant> Hrmph.
<wgrant> It dereferenced my lp: URL. Not very nice of it.
<wgrant> Created new stacked branch referring to bzr+ssh://wgrant@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-security/ubuntu-cve-tracker/master/.
<wgrant> And a pretty AssertionError because of that. Yay.
<jml> wgrant: is the assertion error on Launchpad or Bazaar?
<wgrant> jml: LP. Complaining that my hosted branch references a non-hosted branch. It dereferenced lp:ubuntu-cve-tracker, which I passed as --stacked-on.
<wgrant> I'm using the real HTTP URL for now, so it should be happier.
<jml> same branch as before?
<wgrant> lp:~wgrant/ubuntu-cve-tracker/main
<wgrant> (the one I pointed you to earlier had been main, but I renamed it because it was sooooo slooooow and needed to die)
<jml> *nod*
<wgrant> Is it a bug that it dereferences the lp: URL?
<jml> no.
<jml> well...
<jml> no.
<wgrant> How is one meant to do it, then?
<jml> you'd have to stack on the http url. It's possible that bzr makes it harder than it could be.
<wgrant> But I don't know that the HTTP URL exists. I am a poor ignorant lp: user
<jml> wgrant: oh, one of those.
<jml> wgrant: well, then we'll be rolling out something soon that does it all for you magically.
<wgrant> Wait. What.
<wgrant> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/ubuntu-cve-tracker/main
<wgrant> That makes a total of *no* sense.
<jml> ok. that's definitely a bug.
 * jml files
<wgrant> Thanks.
<wgrant> What is a hosted branch if not something on bazaar.launchpad.net?
<jml> wgrant: it's an overzealous security check.
<wgrant> Apparently.
<wgrant> jml: Shall I use an unstacked pack branch for now, or is there a workaround?
<jml> no workaround I can think of, sorry.
<jml> hmm.
<jml> no.
<jml> it's a security check, the whole point is I can't think of a workaround ;)
<wgrant> A security check that always returns false? Bulletproof, I guess.
<mwhudson> b = bzrlib.branch.Branch.open('bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~wgrant/ubuntu-cve-tracker/main')
<mwhudson> b.set_stacked_on_url('/~ubuntu-security/ubuntu-cve-tracker/master')
<mwhudson> might work
<jml> o/` or just another country o/`
<wgrant> mwhudson: Thanks. I'll try that.
 * wgrant looks confused at jml.
<mwhudson> (this is what the automagic stacking thing will do for you)
<wgrant> Does that not work yet?
<mwhudson> wgrant: a phased rollout seemed sensible, in case of horrific bugs
<wgrant> mwhudson: Indeed, but having something that can't be used isn't an excellent method of testing.
<mwhudson> wgrant: _we_ can use it
<wgrant> It seems to be complaining less now, but I might not have waited long enough...
<wgrant> mwhudson: Ah, right.
<wgrant> Yay, it worked. Thanks mwhudson, jml.
<mwhudson> np
<Hew> Hi. I'm trying to update the bug status/milestone/comment of a bug, but I get this error: "Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication.". I've tried pressing back and trying again, but it refuses to let me comment. I'm using edge.
<wgrant> Hew: Try logging in. You may have been logged out by viewing a Launchpad feed.
<Hew> wgrant: Thanks, I had indeed been logged out for some reason.
<wgrant> Viewing feeds seems to destroy your session at the moment; I believe it's being worked on.
<Hew> wgrant: No worries, these things have to be expected when on launchpad-beta. What is a "feed" though?
<wgrant> Hew: An RSS or Atom (I forget which) feed. Does that make more sense?
<Hew> wgrant: Yes, even though I don't view feeds (unless firefox is pulling it down in the background or something).
<mwhudson> the fix for this has landed, btw
<mwhudson> so it should be fixed on edge pretty soon
<Hew> mwhudson: Sounds good :-)
<mwhudson> hm, should be fixed on edge already, actually
<attila_lendvai> hi! so, launchpad is for opensource software... but what if i wanted to buy it as a service for a company? is there a chance i could get a cheap rent for a low-traffic service?
<Hobbsee> attila_lendvai: ask mrevell about that, during a european workday.
<attila_lendvai> Hobbsee: thanks!
<Hobbsee> attila_lendvai: you're welcome!
<yarko> are there any known issues currently w/ Launchpad source view?
<yarko> (I'm getting repeated "Problem connecting to the Launchpad server.... )
<yarko> ...this is for better than the last 1/2 hour.
<yarko> I just checked and am getting this on more than one project...
<yarko> I believe there's a problem w/ the source server...
<yarko> Is anyone else experiencing server problems w/ Launchpad?
<_steven_> I get an error when browsing source online
<yarko> I just merged from one tree, and wound up with NO FILES (everything deleted)
<yarko> I tried browsing, and got an error also
<yarko> I tried browsing in another project - same thing, an online error
<insomninja> I seem to have problems to connect to the lp server and was told to drop a notification here
<tgm4883_laptop> How long is it before bugs that were marked for expiration actually expire?
<persia> tgm4883_laptop: At least for Ubuntu, they don't actually expire.  This was turned off as it annoyed too many people.
<tgm4883_laptop> ah
<tgm4883_laptop> which is interesting, since we have a lot of incomplete bugs that aren't expiring, which is annoying me ;)
<tgm4883_laptop> is there another way to get rid of them?
<laga> hello. i accidentally dput something to regular ubuntu instead of to my PPA. of course, the upload was rejected. now i can't upload to the PPA because it claims the source is already in ubuntu/intrepid. but it's not, it was rejected.
<NCommander> barry, ping
<NCommander> Are there any dogfood administrators online?
<ketilwaa> I can not connect to Bazaar on LP via browser at the moment. Known problem?
<rsc_> hey guys. is it possible to get the HEAD revision of my project's trunk downloadable as a .tar.gz?
<rsc_> or, how do i put something in my new project's "downlaods" section?
<spm> ketilwaa: should be working now
<ketilwaa> spm: Thanks, I just noticed.
<exarkun> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/49 says to choose "Delete branch" in the actions menu
<exarkun> I can't recognize anything that might be an actions menu on https://code.launchpad.net/~exarkun/pyopenssl/thread-safety
<exarkun> How can I delete that branch?
<tgm4883_laptop> exarkun, to the right of ~exarkun/pyopenssl/thread-safety, isn't there a pink dot with a - on it?
<exarkun> tgm4883_laptop: Indeed there is.
<exarkun> And hovering it, I see the title is "Delete branch", so I suppose that's it :)
<tgm4883_laptop> that should be the delete button
<tgm4883_laptop> yep, I had trouble finding it when lp changed looks too
<exarkun> I'm sure this isn't the ideal forum for usability feedback, but man, that's obscure :)
<tgm4883_laptop> yea could be
 * tgm4883_laptop is just a lp user
<mterry> I have a project that uses translations in LP.  Is there an easy way to get update po files than the 'request a download' button?  Like, is there an rsync line I can run?
#launchpad 2008-09-21
<mwhudson> exarkun: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/260626
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260626 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot easily delete branches" [Undecided,Triaged]
<tretle> hi, I was wondering if there was some api to launchpad that could be used in apps like anjuta for a start page
<tretle> integration with gnome docs and some of launchpads features would be really cool for a webkit based start page
<greg-g> Does launchpad know if more than one LP Bug has been linked to a single upstream bug? (ie: a way to make sure there aren't duplicate bugs both pointing to the upstream bug)
<wgrant> greg-g: I've had it warn me if I add a link that already exists.
<wgrant> I'm not sure that a page exists showing this duplication, however.
<greg-g> wgrant: good to know that it has warned you, at least.  Thanks!
<wgrant> How often is LP meant to pull down CVEs from Mitre? I think it's having issues.
<michelecs> Hi. How I ask my PPA to build a package on more than one ditribution? In my changelog I wrote "Hardy". Do I need to write "any" or a sort of list e.g. "gutsy, hardy, intrepid"?
<Nafallo> upload separate sources I'd assume.
<laga> you can also copy the packages
<laga> but i dont think it will rebuild them
<geser> no, it won't rebuild
<geser> you need a seperate upload for each distribution (and update the package version a little)
<laga> the copy packages thing could do that automagically. oh well
<geser> laga: that would break the signature on the .dsc file
<laga> does that matter?
<geser> I guess the are people around who won't trust a source package with a broken .dsc signature (I myself wouldn't trust it)
<laga> do you actually verify the signature of a source package before installing binary packages from a PPA?
<geser> laga: I currently don't use any PPA
<laga> so it's a moot point anyways. i doubt that people actually verify the signature on the source package
<geser> and I know that at lease ScottK doesn't use any PPA until PPAs are signed
<michelecs> Now I'm downloading the source for a package which has been build for hardy and intrepid... Let's have a look to its changelog
<laga> i still wonder how signing will be implemented. if it's just LP auto-signing the packages then that's not a lot more secure...
<laga> but to each their own
<geser> I guess that's what will practically happen (not checking the signature) but it is still wrong to break it
<laga> geser: so, it LP can sign packages, it might as well sign the source package when rebuilding ;)
<laga> s/it/if/
<geser> sure
<michelecs> I had a look at the changelog. Each package has intrepid or hardy (this or is xor). So I think I need to upload two sources.
<geser> michelecs: yes
<laga> if your package is already in the ppa, just do use dch to create a new changelog entry for the target distro and run debuild -S -sd
<laga> to force exclusion of the orig.tar.gz
<geser> but it should be sufficient to do only one full-source upload (incl. orig.tar.gz) and the second upload only be the other .diff.gz (and .dsc)
<laga> i found some interesting behavior the other day
<laga> i uploaded a package to intrepid main on accident because i omitted the dput target. it was reject, of course. then i uploaded to the PPA and that upload was rejected as well
<michelecs> What about naming the binary package? Is there a way to append some extra info to the filename? (e.g. '-intrepid' or '-hardy')
<laga> LP claimed the source package already was in the archives
<geser> michelecs: why would you want do that?
<michelecs> geser: To avoid they have the same filename...
<geser> michelecs: the filename includes the package version
<michelecs> geser: so they will differ by ppa1 (the first build, for example for hardy) and ppa2 (the second build, for example for intrepid)?
<geser> michelecs: yes
<michelecs> Thanks guys... This is what I need to know.
<geser> laga: please ask cprov or bigjools if it's a known bug
<Hobbsee> laga: re: launchpad & autosigning, that's what i would have thought, too.  I don't see why it's such a big priority
<laga> Hobbsee: autosigning is a big priority? that's news to me ;)
<Hobbsee> laga: well, they say it's one of the more important bugs they want to fix, and it's been "in progress" for a while, iirc.
<Hobbsee> of course, that doesn't necessarily say a lot, but...
<laga> yeah. PPAs have been around for a while. but i don't need it, so i'm not complaining
<laga> or rather, there is other stuff that's bugging me a lot more ;)
<tucuna> hello - have a Q about security key and launchpad PPA repos - is it essential? is it irresponsible to add a repo without a key?
<nedko> packages are signed, not repos themself, AFAIK
<NCommander> Is there anyone who can help me with my @ubuntu.com email?
<nubae> hi there... I'm having an issue with launchpad I dont understand... I'm trying to login from bzr
<nubae> like so: bzr launchpad-login Nubae
<nubae> but get the following: bzr: ERROR: https://launchpad.net/%7ENubae/%2Bsshkeys is permanently redirected to https://launchpad.net/~nubae/+sshkeys
<nubae> any ideas?
<Hobbsee> NCommander: what about it?
<NCommander> Hobbsee, its been two weeks and I still don't have it, or my kubuntu.org address
<NCommander> (I was told it takes roughly a week for that to magicially pop up)
<Hobbsee> NCommander: what's your launchpad ID?
<NCommander> sonicmctails
<Dominic> nubae: what happens if you use a lower-case 'N' instead?
<nubae> username not recognised
<Hobbsee> NCommander: ok, what address are you trying to use?
<NCommander> sonicmctails@{k}ubuntu.org
<NCommander> (well .com for ubuntu)
<Hobbsee> and are you using gmail to test this?
<NCommander> Hobbsee, yes.
<Hobbsee> that'll be why.
<Hobbsee> it's working, but gmail tends to mark mail sent to yourself as spam
<NCommander> But shouldn't the addresses also show up on my Launchpad page?
<Hobbsee> (this is a common problem)
<Hobbsee> not unless you add it, and that can be a bad idea.
<NCommander> I knew about the emails from yourself issue :-/
<Hobbsee> (possible infinite loop - I hear that at least a few people got bitten by it)
<NCommander> Ouch
<Hobbsee> you should have a mail from me.
<Hobbsee> did you get it? :)
<nubae> Dominic: should I change my username to all lowercase on launchapd?
<NCommander> nope
<Dominic> nubae: well I can't even see your page from my browser, nor can I search for your username.  Sure that it's right?
<Hobbsee> hmmm.  did it hit spam?
<NCommander> Hobbsee, nope
<NCommander> Hobbsee, your too loved to be spam :-)
<Hobbsee> strange.  wonder if it got greylisted, or something.
<nubae> ah wait, I changed my username today... is that why... it is here: https://launchpad.net/~dvanassche
<Hobbsee> well, that's what i would have thought - but i haven't got a failed message from it.
<Dominic> nubae: heh, then yeah, you're logging in with the wrong username
<nubae> ok, so my username, even though changed on launchpad is still dvanassche
<NCommander> Hobbsee, I am getting mail, I just got a post that was sent to debian-hurd
<Dominic> nubae: are you sure you're not confused with your display name?  Visit https://launchpad.net/~dvanassche/+edit - your display name is at the top, username is second
<nubae> aaah... ok, doh... my bad... thanks Dominic
<Hobbsee> NCommander: to your @ubuntu.com address?
<NCommander> Hobbsee, no, to gmail, just saying I'm recieving general mail ;-)
<Hobbsee> NCommander: ah, right :)
<Hobbsee> NCommander: poke el*mo about it tomorrow, i guess, if you don't receive the mail late.
<Nafallo> ehrm. file an RT rather.
<Hobbsee> or that.  or bug Nafallo directly :P
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: yea. power cycle systems will probably help? ;-)
 * Nafallo is not an admin :-)
<Hobbsee> Nafallo: i didn't know you supported windows?
<Hobbsee> (and pity!)
<Nafallo> Hobbsee: I like windows. they give me sunlight :-)
<Nafallo> also, we're drifting off-topic. priv instead? :-)
<NCommander> Hobbsee, finally got it
<NCommander> That's some serious lag
<Hobbsee> NCommander: \o/
<NCommander> at least now I can claim maintainership of my packages in Ubuntu
<Nafallo> yay \o/
<NCommander> And my Kubuntu one works too :-)
<infinito> does anyone know why lp is giving me this error while trying to upload a package to ppa? Unhandled exception processing upload: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe1' in position 73: ordinal not in range(128)
<geser> infinito: it looks like you used a non-ascii char (0xe1 = Ã¡ if it's latin 1) where lp didn't like it
<infinito> geser: hummmm should i remove accents from the control file? My name has accents....
<laga> i wonder if utf8 would work better
<geser> yes, UTF-8 is better
<geser> infinito: that should be a last effort, try using UTF-8 first
<infinito> geser: i'm using utf-8
<geser> hmm
<infinito> it's weird, because first time i tried to upload, it went ok, but failed to build because of dependencies
<infinito> then i chenged the deps, tried again to upload, and it got rejected
<geser> that's really weird
<infinito> yeps, it is
<geser> when was your first upload
<Ampelbein> no, its not weird. you try uploading the same version-subversion with changed files. so the md5-sums do not match. try using -0ubuntu2
<geser> ?
<geser> Ampelbein: wouldn't LP complain about md5 mismatch instead? and not about a non-ascii char
<Ampelbein> hmm. could be. i shouldn't read only half of the text. nevermind.
<infinito> Ampelbein: you were right
<infinito> but maybe lp should give a more concise error
<michelecs> Hi Guys. What if a package of mine needs some dependencies which are already in my PPA? Will Launchpad pick them automatically?
<siretart> michelecs: yes
<michelecs> Is there a way to use -i or -l and tell debchange "Please don't always append ubuntu1 to the version since I'm already using my suffix"?
<zerwas> Hello
#launchpad 2009-09-14
<Daviey> Has lp bzr died?
<thumper> Daviey: what makes you ask?
<Daviey> thumper: can't branch/co, commit or use bazaar.launchpad.net
<cody-somerville> mmm
<cody-somerville> All my bzr operations on branches hosted on bazaar.launchpad.net seem to hang on ssh -oForwardX11=no -oForwardAgent=no -oClearAllForwardings=yes -oProtocol=2 -oNoHostAuthenticationForLocalhost=yes -l cody-somerville bazaar.launchpad.net bzr serve --inet --directory=/ --allow-writes
<Daviey> loggerhead isn't working either
<thumper> hmm
<thumper> spm: you started yet?
<thumper> lets ask a losa
<spm> thumper: yo, 'sup?
<Daviey> spm: no branch/co, commit/push or loggehead :(
<spm> wahoo. looking.
<mwhudson> internal xmlrpc foulup?
<spm> aye
<spm> total borksville.
<Daviey> :(
<spm> should be good now - seeing if everything else is recovering on it's own...
<spm> codebrowse is good
<Daviey> spm: looking good here, thanks for the fast response!
<spm> Daviey: cool, do sing out if you notice any funkies that may be in a half-half state post this.
<Daviey> wilco :)
<Daviey> co and commit worked :)
<thumper> spm: ta
<thumper> spm: I took the downtime to hang out the washing :)
<spm> thumper: would you like me to schedule that in the crontab? eg 2300 UTC, thumper hanging out washing. randomly break code* services so he can skive off. ???
<thumper> spm: sure, why not
<Daviey> taking what feels like longer than normal to show on code.lp "Updating branch...".. perhaps it's because i'm watching, it feels longer - or there is a longer queue because of bustage.
<thumper> Daviey: it'll be because you're watching it :)
<Daviey> heh
<thumper> Daviey: I just updated 5 branches very fast
<Daviey> a watched phone never rings.
<spm> thumper: cool. shoot the rt in and I'll make it so. I suspect a pri 90.
<thumper> spm: no, not submitting an RT for that, this has to be on the quiet.
<Daviey> thumper: hmm, it's been > 10 mins now
<spm> thumper: which is why we're discussing same in a public irc channel? ;-)
<spm> Daviey: that sounds broken then. which branch?
<thumper> Daviey: which formats are you using?
<thumper> Daviey: locally and remotely
<Daviey> lp:~ubuntu-voip/ubuntu-voip/dahdi-linux
<Daviey> Checkout (format: pack-0.92)
<Daviey> remote, Branch format:  Branch format 6
<thumper> Daviey: is it a big change?
<Daviey> no
<Daviey> trivial few lines, 1 file
<thumper> Daviey: I don't tend to use checkouts
<thumper> ick
<thumper> Daviey: is the checkout itself big?
<Daviey> thumper: no
<Daviey> 9.7M
<thumper> Daviey: a remote commit probably isn't optimised for round trips like a push is
<thumper> Daviey: but that is probably best answered by the #bzr guys
 * Daviey didn't appreciate that there was a technical difference between co and branch.. just thought it did a local commit and push under the covers.
<thumper> Daviey: I can't really say
<thumper> Daviey: but I bet it differs
<thumper> lifeless: what is the internal difference between a commit on a checkout and a push?
<thumper> lifeless: lots different, or just a little?
<thumper> Daviey: commit needs to check many things
 * thumper waves his hands around
<lifeless> thumper: so
<thumper> Daviey: whereas push is sending already committed revisions
<thumper> lifeless: for Daviey
<lifeless> a 'lightweight checkout' does a commit to the repository
<lifeless> a 'heavyweight' checkout - the default if you do 'bzr checkout', does a local commit and then a push.
<lifeless> committing to the repository does not stream.
<lifeless> so local commits are only fast because the repository is close.
<lifeless> committing a single file to a 2a repository will need to:
<lifeless> add a revision, inventory, inventory CHK page, file text
<Daviey> Ah, it's showing on code.lp now \o/
<Daviey> took 17 mins tho :o
<thumper> Daviey: for the command to finish, or the revision to appear?
<Daviey> thumper: to appear
<lifeless> which is 4 groups, and 4 index writes, which is 20 round trips I think.
<Daviey> commit was near instant
<thumper> Daviey: ah, we have sometimes overly long delays there
<Daviey> lifeless: thanks, i understand bzr a little better now :)
<lifeless> also if there was downtime, there would be a backlog perhaps
<thumper> Daviey: we have plans to reduce those delays though
<lifeless> Daviey: if the commit was near instant you can ignore everything I said :)
<Daviey> heh
<thumper> lifeless: also this is for a packs 0.92 repo/branch
<lifeless> Daviey: because it speaks to the work required before the UI completes, not how long LP takes to update the web ui.
<Daviey> but, i've learned that it's unwise to use co for potential large commits :)
<lifeless> Daviey: 'bzr co foo' - thats fine.
<lifeless> Daviey: 'bzr co --lightweight foo' - do not do this unless foo is on your local disk.
<Daviey> --lightweight is missold :)
<lifeless> --lightweight is very good for local operations
<lifeless> just not so good over the network
<Daviey> sure.
<Daviey> thanks again, nn from me o/
<CarlFK> https://edge.launchpad.net/~carlfk/+archive/ppa/+builds?build_state=pending  this has been up for ove 10 min... is that a problem?  or should I just keep waiting?
<maxb> crested is in need of a kick
<maxb> CarlFK: It's simply waiting for an available build machine
<maxb> click on any of the individual builds and it'll give you an estimate when it thinks building will start
<CarlFK>   Start in 1 hour             (2510)
<CarlFK> really?
<CarlFK>  Urgency       Score      low       that's my 'doing'  grumble..
<CarlFK> 2510 is my score?
<maxb> CarlFK: Scores don't really mean much for PPA builds, they're mainly used for prioritising main over universe, security over backports, etc. in the primary archive
<CarlFK> yeah, i was noticing I was compeeting whith them... so they win.  fair enough
<CarlFK> thanks.  done for tonight.  will install later
<mwhudson> i'm fairly sure that the primary archive is an entirely different queue
<maxb> yup
<CarlFK> so theres an hour of PPA builds?
<mwhudson> CarlFK: there seems to be 8 *days* of ppa builds
<mwhudson> CarlFK: so don't complain too much :)
<mwhudson> (something to do with an archive test rebuild)
<maxb> Ah, but rebuild archives get a score of 4, so it's fine
<maxb> the current problem seems to be that the gmpc-trunk PPA is building a ridiculous number of packages
<CarlFK> ah, so this is abnormal... cool.  I figured my 5 min build time's were a fluke
<dbuell> Can anybody help me login to my wiki.ubuntu.com account? I can log in to my launchpad account, but unfortunately the reply from wiki.ubuntu.com is "The username you have chosen is already taken. If it is your username, enter your password below to associate the username with your OpenID. Otherwise, please choose a different username and leave the password field blank." I have logged in before, but I forgot my password apparently.
<mdke> dbuell: you tried your Launchpad password I guess?
<dbuell> yeah
<mdke> sounds like a tricky one. I'd suggest an email to the launchpad-users mailing list if no one responds here
<dbuell> mdke: alright, thanks!
<beuno> dbuell, I think there's a known bug on our openid setup about that
<beuno> dbuell, so either a bug or an email, as mdke suggests
<dbuell> beuno: Alright, I'll be sure to check the bugs
<dbuell> beuno: Thanks!
<dbuell> beuno: you wouldn't happen to know the title or bug ID on that would you?
<beuno> dbuell, no, but I'll try and find it
<beuno> dbuell, it isn't the same bug, I was confused
<beuno> so I don't know  :)
<mdke> if you file a new bug, the relevant project is moin-openid
<lucazade> hi! what does it mean "Build for superseded Source" ?
<lucazade> how to remove/start from building queue?
<wgrant> lucazade: It means that a newer version of the package has been uploaded.
<wgrant> lucazade: So there's no point building the old one.
<lucazade> wgrant: thanks.. should i upload a new release for these packages? https://launchpad.net/~lucazade/+archive/gma500/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
<wgrant> lucazade: Ah, in this case you deleted the package.
<wgrant> lucazade: You need to upload a fixed version.
<lucazade> ah ok.. maybe i did something wrong
<lucazade> with the same rev number or higher^
<lucazade> ?
<wgrant> Higher.
<lucazade> thanks a lot
<Hosein-mec> hi
<Hosein-mec> the build state goes well. but at end proccess have problem
<Hosein-mec> https://launchpad.net/~hoseinhz63/+archive/ppa/+build/1241869
<Hosein-mec> anyone can help ?
<bigjools> I can look
<bigjools> it's an issue with your package
<bigjools> does it compile locally?
<Hosein-mec> bigjools: i have a problem exactly like this => http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=616544
<bigjools> did the suggestion not work for you?
<Hosein-mec> i dont know how to " Adding the non-interactive "cmake" command to the debian/rules "
<Hosein-mec> he said in last post
<bigjools> ok, ask on #ubuntu-motu, they will be able to help
<Hosein-mec> ok thanks
<tuukkah> i wonder what's wrong with my account. trying to login, i get "This account cannot be used."
<Laney> Are the PPA package listings going to become expandable again? :(
<bigjools> Laney: click "view all packages"
<Laney> bigjools: "View package details", you mean
<bigjools> err yes :)
<Laney> that's quite undiscoverable imo
<Laney> maybe an (i) information icon would be useful
<Laney> on each package
 * Laney leaves it with you ;)
<bigjools> we wanted to split the page into two, so there's a user-focused and a dev-focused page
<wgrant> Does the index now show binaries?
<bigjools> no
<wgrant> Hm.
<wgrant> So it's just a crippled version of +packages?
<doko> looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.4/4.4.1-3ubuntu3/+build/1195508 I see many different icons. what do they mean?
<maxb> I'd wager they mean someone has broken the CSS in a deeply obscure way
<wgrant> The same breakage is in a few places.
<wgrant> I filed a bug about it a couple of weeks ago.
<wgrant> There are lots of <ul>s around with class 'downloads'
<wgrant> Somebody a few weeks ago applied the download sprite to the .downloads, apparently unaware that it was used on several other views.
<noodles775> wgrant: regarding the list of packages on the ppa-index, I'd thought of it as a simplified version of +packages for users of the PPA - but yes, it'll be great to update it to binary pkgs soon.
<geser> the icon selection looks pretty interesting: background:url(icon-sprites) 0 -32px no-repeat
<geser> icon-sprites contains all icons and the value (-32px) selects which one is visible
<wgrant> Right.
<geser> that doesn't seem to work pretty well for long elements
<wgrant> Right. But it shouldn't be applied to that list at all.
<wgrant> All the <li>s have it set, so the <ul> shouldn't.
<geser> right
<bigjools> wgrant: what is the bug number?
<wgrant> bigjools: Bug #423105
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423105 in launchpad "Duplicate download icons in many places" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423105
<bigjools> wgrant: thanks
<fta> i'm totally lost with the new ppa page
<fta> it's totally useless for me now, no more links to build logs
<noodles775> fta: did you click on the View detailed packages link?
<fta> ohh
<noodles775> fta: the idea is that you (as a developer) will use that page - the front page is meant to be more for your users.
<gour> hiya, i'm listed as former member of the project, but still receive notices about new bug reports? is it some bug in LP or what should i to do become 'completely unsubscribed' ?
<maxb> The new ppa page is pretty annoying to me too
<noodles775> maxb: what in particular?
<noodles775> maxb: and it's a shame given that we tried to get feedback from everyone :/
<maxb> In that I never want to see it, I only ever want to see the advanced version
<noodles775> maxb: yes, because you're a *developer* right? The idea is that users (or prospective users) of your PPA will want the index page.
<maxb> I find myself wishing for a per-user option that would jump me straight to the advanced view on hitting the base url of a PPA
<noodles775> maxb: doesn't your browser cache your urls that you type frequently? Or do you mean when you click on someone else's profile and click to look at their PPA?
<maxb> Indeed. I want to see the advanced page for *any* PPA
<maxb> And for that matter, if the page is truly user-oriented, it needs to not show packages which haven't built yet
<noodles775> maxb: yes, it should not be.
<noodles775> maxb: I think the consensus is that we'll eventually list binary packages on the index page (as that's what users install).
<gour> how can one unsubscribe from the project's bugs?
<james_w> gour: at the bottom of each email it should say why you are receiving the bug
<james_w> the mail I mean
<james_w> if you break the link that it refers to then you should stop getting them
<gour> james_w: it says: "You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to GNUmed.", but i deactivated my self from the project - see https://launchpad.net/~gnumed/+members and do not know how to break the link?
<james_w> gour: https://launchpad.net/gnumed/+subscribe
<gour> james_w: thanks, although i may suggest it's not, imho, visible/clear enough
<gour> james_w: there should be subscribe/unsubsribe label on the link, not only subscribe
<james_w> gour: please file a bug
<gour> james_w: i'm not the only one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/273192 ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273192 in malone "unsubscribe link on package page" [Medium,Triaged]
<mrevell> deryck: ping!
<deryck> mrevell, hi
<cbcunc> bac!
<bac> hi cbcunc
<fta> would it be possible/reasonable to show the full build log instead of the just the tail? https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/1243054  i often need to wait for the build to complete just to check something at the beginning
<cyberix>  (Error ID: OOPS-1353D2743)
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1353D2743
<Philip5> mthaddon: are you there?
<Philip5> any other launchpad admins here that could help me out with a ppa issue regarding space?
<maxb> It's probably better to file a question and let them get back to you
<Philip5> maxb: i have but i haven't got any response on it for a couple of days :(
<Philip5> almost a week...
<maxb> Hmm, is it filed against the soyuz project?
<Philip5> yes and they have moved it to the canonical losa team
<Philip5> and mthaddon helped me with it but i would like a little change to what's done
<maxb> You're most likely to find someone suitably empowered here during UK office hours
<maxb> (AFAIK)
<Philip5> and it's that last little thingy that i need som help with that have taken some time to get respons on
<Philip5> i guess you're right
<james_w> hmm, does LP disallow dsa keys now?
<geser> adding or using?
<james_w> using
<james_w> it appears that they are still allowed and this user was having another issue
<det> How can I delete a package on launchpad ? (using edge)
<wgrant> det: Click 'View page details' in the top right.
<wgrant> det: There's a bug filed that that is unobvious.
<wgrant> det: That stuff was moved away from the PPA index page to make it a bit more friendly to PPA users.
<det> "view package details" ?
<wgrant> det: That one, sorry.
<det> is ~ supported on the left hand side of package versions ?
<det> so that 1.0~alpha < 1.0 ?
<wgrant> det: You mean in the upstream version?
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> Exactly.
<wgrant> That's the primary use for it.
<det> I wasnt sure if it was only allowed on the right hand side
<wgrant> 1.0~alpha1, 1.0~svn20090909, etc.
<det> 1.0~alpha~r574
<det> is that ok ?
<det> what is best way to express both alpha and svn revision number?
<det> even when I view package details
<det> I cant find where to delete packages
<wgrant> det: Top right of that page, again.
<det> n/m
<wgrant> Perhaps 1.0~alpha1~r574?
<det> for some reason I was logged out
<det> even though I just logged in
<wgrant> Ah.
<det> wgrant, why alpha1
<wgrant> Remember that betatesters have to log in twice.
<det> instead of just alpha
<wgrant> Once for lpnet, once for edge.
<wgrant> det: Well, what is the next release?
<det> 1.0~beta~rXXX
<det> and XXX will be > 574
<det> or
<det> maybe another alpha
<det> with XXX > 574
<wgrant> There is a release '1.0 alpha'?
<det> no
<det> all alpha/beta contain svn revision
<det> and final is just 1.0
<wgrant> So there are no, and will not be any, officially released alphas or betas?
<jml> hi
<det> official releases are tagged by alpha/beta and revision
<wgrant> det: Hmmm, I see.
<det> Im not working from svn
<wgrant> So just 1.0~alpha~r574, as you suggested.
<det> ok, thanks
<det> I accidently uploaded 1.0alpha+r574
<det> I hope LP lets me upload something that sorts higher after I delete it
<det> I mean, sorts lower
<det> 1.0~alpha~r574-0ubuntu1~9.04~ppa1
<det> does that sound reasonable ?
<wgrant> det: I'd swap the 9.04 and the ppa1.
<det> 9.04 is more important than pp1
<wgrant> No.
<wgrant> It's the 9.04 version of your PPA package.
<wgrant> Not the PPA version of the 9.04 package.
<det> 9.04 is for jaunty
<det> when upgrading from 8.10
<det> it needs to grab the jaunty package
<det> even if intrepid has a higher ppaX
<wgrant> Perhaps.
<wgrant> Most people do it the other way, though.
<det> phew
<det> LP accepted new package
<det> awesome! LP supports real time build log now!
<wgrant> det: It actually always has, just on another page.
#launchpad 2009-09-15
<jml> how can I filter merge proposal emails in GMail?
<micahg> jml: I filter on Subject
<jml> micahg, how does that work?
<micahg> Don't they all have [Merge] in them?
<micahg> although this might be better: [Merge][Merge]
<micahg> oops
<micahg> X-Launchpad-Notification-Type: code-review
<micahg> that header might be better
<jml> micahg, yes, they do. But I'd like proposals for different projects to be tagged differently
<micahg> ah
<micahg> can't you add multiple filters in gmail?
<jml> micahg, do you know how to filter for arbitrary headers in gmail?
<micahg> there's a project filter
<micahg> jml: i don't know that it's possible
<micahg> you could load gmail in thunderbird and do it there...
<jml> micahg, hmm.
<micahg> jml: maybe put a request into gmail for the feature?
<jml> micahg, it turns out that filtering on arbitrary headers is one of the top 10 requested features :)
<micahg> ok
<mwhudson> i really don't understand why they haven't done that yet
<wgrant> It seems like it'd be a pretty critical feature.
<wgrant> I couldn't live without it.
<mwhudson> mind you, as a launchpad developer i'm not really in any position to ask why an obviously useful feature hasn't been implemented yet...
<micahg> jml: maybe by [Merge] and another thing in the subject
<micahg> the project is in the subject as well
<micahg> or if you have a server you control, you can pipe it through procmail and then have gmail pull it
<micahg> and change the address to +project
<noodles775> Nice... I love the new milestone page :)
<ricli85> i uploaded a pot file through the web interface about a week ago but it still hasn't been approved, how long do i need to wait?
<spm> ricli85: that should start fixing from earlier today actually. we were having some interesting issues around translations that necessitated a temporary hold.
<ricli85> spm, ok, i'll wait some more then and see if it gets approved soon, thanks
<spm> there's a bit of a backlog, aiui, so don't hold your breath; but things are happening again.
<al> ok, so bazaar.launchpad.net only works while i'm in this channel i guess?
<idnar> haha
<spm> al: heh. nice timing; I just bounced it. should be good.
<al> spm: k ;)
<doctormo_> is the launchpadlib python code ready for general use? and is it possible to use it to do project searches and project details?
<doctormo_> https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib <- In here it says that a cache dir needs to be specified. Is this still the case?
<wgrant> doctormo_: If you want a cache, yes. But it's not mandatory.
<wgrant> But it's a very good idea.
<doctormo_> wgrant: Was there problems using XDG cache dir?
<wgrant> doctormo_: Yes. The cache isn't thread-safe.
<doctormo_> wgrant: Ew, that can't be good for the look of the thing. Any reason or is it arch problems?
<wgrant> doctormo_: No idea.
<doctormo_> wgrant: thanks for your help though, filled in a few data points
<Daviey> doctormo_: unless i'm mistaken, you also need to be an edge user
<wgrant> Daviey: No.
<Daviey> oh?
<wgrant> Daviey: It's both not restricted to beta testers on edge, and also now available on production.
<Daviey> hmm.. wonder why i thought it was edge only
<wgrant> Daviey: It was until two months ago.
<Daviey> ah!
<wgrant> However, it wasn't restricted to beta testers.
<maxb> Has anyone filed a bug about making public info readable without oauth credentials?
<wgrant> maxb: Yes.
<wgrant> maxb: I did a couple of months ago.
<wgrant> maxb: For now you can hack launchpadlib to use the webapp vhost, if you really want it.
<maxb> egads, that works!?
<maxb> Wow
<wgrant> Not easily.
<wgrant> It needs a couple of changes in wadllib too.
<doctormo_> hmm
<doctormo_> That bug effects me too, although I suppose it's not too much of a problem since my users are expected to have an account anyway.
<doctormo_> wgrant: I don't suppose you've used a file resource object via launchpadlib? finding it hard to sort out how to use it.
<wgrant> doctormo_: I haven't, but I thought they worked just like normal files.
<doctormo_> wgrant: like normal file io objects?
<wgrant> doctormo_: Yes.
<doctormo_> ValueError: No JSON object could be decoded <- wow that errors gets annoying quickly
<doctormo_> Ah, not file io, but a file object which needs .open()
<soren> I think I asked this before, but has anyone succesfully interacted with the API from Javascript?
 * soren is contemplating some nifty mashing up he could do with the launchpad data available as JSON
<wgrant> soren: LP does lots of interaction like that.
<wgrant> But there will be issues getting browser to let you do it from other sites.
<cody-somerville> I use the launchpadlib to import launchpad data into my database and then use my own restful API and javascript
<cody-somerville> grr
 * cody-somerville loves how people rebuild the same packages over and over.
<cody-somerville> that is, instead of looking to see if someone else has already published it in a PPA they upload to their own PPA
<cody-somerville> and thanks to tools like bzr-builder, a lot of it is just crontabs firing
<soren> wgrant: I'll be doing it from chrome, probably.
<cody-somerville> I wonder how much buildd time is actually wasted by people carelessly using up a limited resource
<soren> wgrant: Not Google Chrome. Firefox chrome.
<wgrant> soren: Ah.
<wgrant> soren: That would probably be fine, then.
<soren> wgrant: Do you know where I can see some example code or something? Is there a library of sorts to do this?
<wgrant> soren: LP has some JS client lib for it. Let me see...
<thekorn> hi, has the link to directly jump to the sourcecode been removed accedentially from pages like https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~zeitgeist/zeitgeist/event-item-separation ?
<thekorn> or is it part of the new blingbling design
<wgrant> thekorn: It's currently lost in the middle of a page redesign.
<wgrant> thekorn: It will be revived once the branch page is redesigned in a few days.
<thekorn> ok, so there is hope it will come back soon
<thekorn> thanks wgrant
<wgrant> It will return.
* intellectronica changed the topic of #launchpad to: There is a Planet Launchpad | Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: intellectronica | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | irc://irc.freenode.net/#launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<IntuitiveNipple> For bugs, how is an upstream bug tracker link supposed to be added when there is no 'distro' option for the upstream package? In this case, I want to add a bug link to bugzilla.mozilla.org against xulrunner-1.9.1 (or firefox-3.5) in an existing bug #359407
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359407 in firefox-3.5 "Jaunty icedtea6-plugin doesnât work in Firefox 3.5" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359407
<wgrant> IntuitiveNipple: Create a task for the upstream bug (using "Also affects project"), and enter the project name and URL there.
<wgrant> ... damn.
<Lunar_Lamp> "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. " <== is this an issue that's being fixed etc.
<dpm> jtv: we've got a problem with some UNR Karmic translation imports. Let's take the netbook-launcher as the main package. I had blocked the karmic netbook-launcher templates to allow translators to complete the translation work upstream. This blocked the PO files from the uploaded Ubuntu package as expected.
<dpm> I now have approved the templates imported in the next package upload (5 days ago), but that upload didn't seem to provide any translations, as I cannot see any from that day in the imports queue (there are only the ones previously blocked back in August). https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/netbook-launcher/+imports?field.filter_status=all&field.filter_extension=po
<dpm> lool tells me that his logs show the PO files being stripped and imported, but as I say, I cannot see them in the imports queue. Any ideas?
<Lunar_Lamp> Or am I doing something wrong?
<jtv> Lunar_Lamp: were you looking at code?  Because that has problems sometimes.
<wgrant> jtv: It seems to be actually dead now.
<Lunar_Lamp> jtv: I was just tyring to go to:http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mysql/mysql-server/mysql-5.1/revision/3106
<jtv> dpm: not really parsing at the moment, but one data point that may help: if a blocked (or needs-review) pofile sits in the queue, and an update comes in, the queue entry's content text is updated without any other visible change.
<jtv> Lunar_Lamp: so that's the code department...  rockstar, you here?
<jtv> or abentley?
<Lunar_Lamp> It seems to be working now jtv - and my issues are back to trying to fix other people's code.
<Lunar_Lamp> (well, apply their patches anyway)
<jtv> Lunar_Lamp: ok, glad it's not blocking you now...  is this patching business anything you need further help with?  I don't know who's on help rotation today, but I can find out.
<Lunar_Lamp> jtv: I think my issues were because I had "checked out" the latest version of the repository, and then was trying to apply a patch that was already applied. Thus it wasn't applying cleanly.
<Lunar_Lamp> (My experience with bazaar is about 30mins old, so forgive me if I'm not using the correct terms)
<jtv> Lunar_Lamp: I haven't forgotten the feeling.  :)  Yes, when patches break, usually it's a sign that a human really does need to look at it.  In my experience bzr does very well at it, but that doesn't make it any easier when it does happen.
<dpm> jtv: sorry, I didn't quite get that what is it not parsing at the moment? And what's the import queue's entry text?
<dpm> entry content text, I mean
<jtv> dpm: I'm not parsing what you're saying because of a few distractions.  :)  The import queue entry's content text.  In other words, the text of the actual file that's been uploaded.  When a file is uploaded, and there's already a queue entry for it from a previous upload, the entry is updated so it contains the latest version of the fileâbut you don't see that in the queue.
<jtv> For instance, the upload date still reflects the _original_ upload that created the entry, not the latest upload that updated the same entry.
<sivang> mrevell: hey matthew
<jtv> (And yes, we have a bug open on that)
<mrevell> Hi sivang
<sivang> mrevell: got my email about orginizing a launchpad meeting in Budapest ?
<sivang> mrevell: I will be attending the plone conference
<jtv> dpm: also, the uploads aren't supposed to trigger approval; it's the auto-approver that should do that.
<mrevell> sivang: Hi, yeah, it's on my list :)
<sivang> mrevell: cool, I think we could create some itneresting sprints there to combine plone and launchpad as zope apps for one-stop-shop solution of managing both software production and content management
<sivang> mrevell: but for that we need to have plone on zope3 for start
<jtv> dpm: the auto-approver script at the moment is having a problem with a duplicated domain; I have a code fix in review now but we should probably also figure out which upload is causing this and deal with it manually.
<dpm> jtv: yeah, but manually approving the template should trigger an auto-approval of the PO files, even if they were blocked, shouldn't it?
<sivang> anyway, have to run to lunch
<sivang> people are waiting
<dpm> jtv: right, so do you think I should simply manually unblock the PO files in the queue, even if their date des not correspond to the date of the upload?
<jtv> dpm: yes on both
<jtv> dpm: I don't think the approver can safely unblock the translations by itself because it can't see whether they were blocked because their template used to be blocked, or whether they were blocked individually.
<dpm> jtv: (the templates were approved some days ago) I'll do that (unblock the PO files from August), but as I said, what concerns me a bit is the date of those PO files. There have been 3 translation uploads, and there are PO files for the two first ones in the queue, but not for the last one. What I mean is that previous PO uploads _do_ seem to remain in the queue as new ones are added, but not for the last one. Anyway, I'll give that a go. Thanks!
<dpm> lool: ^
<jtv> dpm: when an import succeeds, its entry is gc'ed off the queue in... 3 days iirc.
<jtv> dpm: and if the files' paths have changed, they won't be considered the same uploads.
<dpm> yeah, but the import clearly didn't succeed, as there were no translations imported
<dpm> and there were no path changes afaik
<dpm> anyway, I'll try that and I'll report back
<doctormo> What is the advice on uploading videos into bug reports on launchpad?
<SamB> doctormo: keep them small ?
<SamB> these would be screen-videos ?
<doctormo> SamB: Yes, 7MB too large?
<doctormo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/429926 for instance
<SamB> I would try to use a lossless codec optimized for pixel graphics
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429926 in inkscape "Node Connectors in Wrong Positions After Document Resize" [Low,New]
<SamB> that doesn't sound all that large ...
<stub> size of bug attachments is pretty insignificant compared to everything else in that storage.
<stub> ISO images might raise eyebrows
<SamB> stub: well, I was thinking more about the download time than anything
<wgrant> stub: What's biggest these days? BinaryPackageFiles?
<stub> yer
<SamB> the codec bit was because I hate *PEG artifacts on screenshots ;-P
<doctormo> SamB: It's an Ogv file, not a PEG
<SamB> what codec ?
<wgrant> Theora, presumably.
<SamB> I don't presume such things
<wgrant> These days it's a fairly valid assumption that .ogv is Theora, I think.
<SamB> not really
<SamB> it might be a good first guess
<SamB> or, wait
<SamB> maybe I'm thinking of ogm
<doctormo> Desktop/bug429926.ogv: Ogg data, Skeleton v3.0
<doctormo> I guess it's not good at telling me
<SamB> yeah
<SamB> file wouldn't be
<SamB> it can't skip variable-sized chunks to find anything indicitive of the actual codec ;-)
<SamB> heck, I'm kind of surprised that it can detect self-extracting zips ;-)
<wgrant> libmagic is generally pretty good.
<SamB> how does that differ from file(1)
<SamB> ?
<wgrant> file uses libmagic.
<SamB> oh, you think they hard-coded it in the C code ?
<wgrant> Huh?
<doctormo> [Ogg] stream 1: video (Theora v3.2.1), -vid 0
<doctormo> [Ogg] stream 2: audio (Vorbis), -aid 0
<doctormo> Mplayer to the resque
<SamB> most of the detection, you realize, is done based on rules in "magic" files
<wgrant> SamB: I know.
<SamB> but not all
 * SamB struggles to understand how a self-extracting zip can begin with PK\003\004
<wgrant> Hey, this is PE we're talking about.
<SamB> wgrant: was pretty sure PE had a magic number!
<SamB> well, not just one ;-)
<wgrant> SamB: But you wouldn't put that at the start.
<wgrant> That would be too obvious.
<SamB> well, no.
<SamB> but don't you neede the MZ header at the beginning?
<idnar> PE doesn't care
<idnar> you only need that if you want to print an error message when someone tries to run it in DOS
<SamB> well, I thought winzip self-extractors worked also on DOS
<SamB> idnar: or work on DOS ;-P
<SamB> the other possibility is that this is actually just what happens if you remove the SFX stub from the beginning of a winzip SFX ...
<SamB> oh, I guess the real file magic for self-extractors is mostly based on looking at offsets used by known stubs?
<SamB> ewwwwww!
<SamB> there is a DOS extender that uses valid PE executables ... which do not work in Windows!
<lool> dpm, jtv: So I understand things are sorted out; do you need a no change netbook-launcher reupload?
<SamB> and here I thought that the only dos extender that used PE for it's main executables was an implementation of a win32 subset ...
<lool> dpm: No change of getting a langpack update today I guess?
<lool> *chance
<SamB> huh, I didn't know EFI used PE for executables ...
<SamB> ... apparantly since before the Xbox existed
<dpm> lool: I believe an upload is not necessary. Translations are now in Rosetta, and they will be included in the next language pack export. ArneGoetje is in charge of the generation of langpacks, he'll be able to tell you more on the actual date of generation and if it's possible to generate one today to pick those translations up. Note that I still haven't got on to approve the rest of the translations for other packages (desktop-switcher, go-home-applet, w
<dpm> indow-picker-applet), but I'll do this later on today
<lool> dpm: Ok; would you mind pinging me when the other UNR translations are in?
<lool> dpm: What about the .mos in the translations tarball?  We dont care about these enough for a new upload?
<leonardr> has anyone else experienced bug 353805 with the latest release of launchpadlib? (1.5.1)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 353805 in launchpadlib "addAttachment() crashes with UnicodeDecodeError:" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/353805
<dpm> lool: sure, I'll ping you when I'm done. I don't think we care about the mo files for this upload, as if I understand it correctly we only use them to figure out the translation domain, and in this case I entered it manually for all templates already.
<lool> dpm: Ok
<mrevell> beuno: ping
<rhpot1991> hey guys, is there any way of setting up 2 email addresses for a mailing list in launchpad?
<beuno> mrevell, pongz
<beuno> barry, ^
<barry> rhpot1991: no.  what's the use case?
<rhpot1991> barry: I have a bot that I want to receive bugmail without creating a seperate LP account for him
<barry> rhpot1991: ah, interesting.  no unfortunately there's no way to handle that currently without doing just that.  we have a bug open on "lurking" on mailing lists.  let me try to find that and you can add your use case to it
<barry> rhpot1991: bug 194126 this might actually see some attention after lp3.0 is released
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 194126 in launchpad-registry "Let people lurk on mailing lists" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194126
<kfogel> jtv, danilo-afk: user asking a question at the bottom of http://blog.launchpad.net/translations/new-guides-to-translating-your-project
<jtv> kfogel: I don't think he understood that another reader had answered his question.
<kfogel> jtv: didn't that other reader only answer one of his questions?
<jtv> kfogel: depends on what you call things I guess...  His one actual question was answered.  I'm answering the suggestions now.
<danilo-afk> kfogel: I'll respond
<danilo-afk> kfogel: oh, I see jtv is doing it already, never mind then
<kfogel> jtv: well, he did say "questions and comments" iirc
<jtv> kfogel: yes, mostly answered by actually reading the document. :-)
<rhpot1991> thanks barry
<barry> np!
<james_w> are the new page titles fixed, or still in flux?
<james_w> I'm seeing a couple that I find weird
<james_w> e.g. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~arky/ubuntu/karmic/envyng-core/fix-411915/+merge/11231
<james_w> "envyng-core" package : 9.10 : Ubuntu
<james_w> which is correct, but not really specific enough
<beuno> james_w, https://wiki.canonical.com/Launchpad/UI/Navigation
<beuno> the title (and breadcrumb) should be like in example #3 for MPs
<bigjools> james_w: they're in flux a bit, but if you find any it's worth contacting the appropriate team
<beuno> not sure if it's something salgado should do, or the code team
<james_w> that would probably be better
<james_w> it seems anything under Code for packages uses the same title
<james_w> doesn't help me find what I want in the address bar
<beuno> james_w, anything different from that page, is a bug  ;)
<beuno> (sorry about it being in the private wiki, haven't had time to move it over)
<james_w> the other was https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+filebug
<james_w> +filebug : Bugs in bzr : Bazaar
<james_w> "+filebug" should be transliterated in my opinion
<james_w> "File a bug" or something
<beuno> yeah, the +whatever needs to be fixed in many places
<james_w> ok :-)
<beuno> not sure if it's a per-page thing, or a site-wide change
<james_w> want these filed as bugs?
 * beuno looks at salgado and sinzui for an answer
<salgado> beuno, I'm working on that
<kfogel> jtv: oh -- sorry :-).
<salgado> it's a site-wide thing -- when the bug is fixed we'll use the page's title instead of its name
<beuno> perfect
<beuno> so no bug needed I guess
<james_w> great, thanks
<james_w> I'll file one for the Code pages?
<james_w> or is that the same change?
<kirkland> i have some translations questions....  who should i point those at?
<salgado> james_w, the +merge/nnn page is a separate issue
<salgado> kirkland, danilos is your best bet
<kirkland> salgado: thanks
<dpm> some things I might be able to answer myself, but danilos, jtv, henninge or Ursinha will be able to give you authoritative answers. They're your best bet
<kirkland> danilos: howdy, i'm still trying to learn to get translations working with my projects
<dpm> kirkland: ^
<kirkland> dpm: coold
<kirkland> dpm: okay, the project is launchpad.net/byobu
<kirkland> dpm: it's importing to launchpad
<kirkland> dpm: and now i just went to https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/byobu
<kirkland> dpm: requested a download, and got a tarball of .mo files
<kirkland> dpm: so i can insert those into my package
<dpm> kirkland: (unfortunately I've got a call in a couple of minutes, so I won't be very responsive :( . The LP translations team will be able to help you)
<kirkland> dpm: that's fine and dandy, i think
<dpm> but I believe you should simply download the PO files and put them in the source package, not the MO files
<danilos> kirkland: hi
<kirkland> danilos: howdy
<kirkland> danilos: okay, so my project is gettext-ified i think
<danilos> kirkland: heya...
<kirkland> danilos: i think i really just need to know 2 things ...
<kirkland> danilos: what is the "output" that my project needs to put out, and how does launchpad pick that up
<danilos> kirkland: right?
<kirkland> danilos: i think i know how to get the "input", i see i can just press a button and download a tarball of .mo files, which i can periodically pick up
<danilos> kirkland: so, you should have a subdirectory with a .pot file (for now, you'll have to regenerate that yourself with either intltool-update -p, or xgettext usually), where you'd put the translated PO files as well
<danilos> kirkland: let me take a look at your project branch and I might give a few more suggestions
<kirkland> danilos: okay, yeah, i have made potfiles
<danilos> kirkland: right, so, have you considered actually using our bzr export feature as well?
<kirkland> danilos: i would love to!
<danilos> kirkland: tarball download usually results in ugly filenames
<kirkland> danilos: show me how
<gaspa> Hi, seems bazaar.lanchpad.net has some kind of problem...  I'm the only experiencing that?
<gaspa> (it just says 'internal server error' )
<danilos> kirkland: so, I see you already set it up as  lp:~kirkland/byobu/translations on https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/byobu/trunk/+translations-settings
<danilos> kirkland: exports happen daily (sometime during the night UTC), so that's when you'll see that branch populated with translations
<danilos> kirkland: however, your main branch (which you are importing translations from) seems to be using the broken filenames for PO files which Launchpad produces but can't easily recognize later (yeah, very ugly bug)
<kirkland> danilos: okay, so i should just merge from there?
<danilos> kirkland: yeah, that should be it
<kirkland> danilos: i think i would like to purge those .po files
<danilos> kirkland: however, you should first rename files like byobu-de.po to de.po
<kirkland> danilos: okay, let me do that
<danilos> kirkland: so, you can see how your updated translation files show up in https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/byobu/trunk/+imports, but they are in 'needs review' (and will stay like that because LP auto-approver can't split the template name and language code from the filename); bzr export doesn't produce the crappy names so it's better :)
<kirkland> danilos: okay, renamed!
<danilos> kirkland: in general, you should be able to use exactly the same branch for translation exports, but in a few weeks export will be improved so it doesn't export po files even when they haven't changed
<kirkland> danilos: now what?
<kirkland> danilos: now i should merge from somewhere?
<kirkland> danilos: to pull the updates?
<danilos> kirkland: right, so, now the translations will be imported after auto-approver approves them (that may sometimes take a few hours), and exports will appear daily in the branch you are using for exports... then, at your leisure, just merge the export branch into trunk (i.e. before a release or something)
<kirkland> danilos: where is this branch?
<danilos> kirkland: if you are not accepting translations from any external source, you can also just let LP directly write to your trunk branch
<danilos> kirkland: heh, I believe you set it up on https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/byobu/trunk/+translations-settings
<kirkland> danilos: lp:~kirkland/byobu/translations ?
<danilos> kirkland: the link tells me it's lp:~kirkland/byobu/translations
<danilos> kirkland: yes
<kirkland> danilos: cool
<danilos> kirkland: (if you decide to go with direct write to the trunk branch, note that before we further improve it it will result in one commit every day, so might pollute your history; that fix should be in by next Wednesday)
<kirkland> danilos: cool, i'll just pull at release time
<danilos> kirkland: yep, that's fine as well
<danilos> kirkland: also, if you are not committing translation updates directly to the trunk branch, you can also use only "Import template files"
<kirkland> danilos: okay, now when i build my package, i should install the .po files where?
<danilos> kirkland: (i.e. no need to import translations that you exported from LP back)
<danilos> kirkland: oh, PO files need to be "compiled" into MO files... GNU gettext and intltool autoconf macros provide that functionality, if you are using any of them
<kirkland> danilos: ./usr/share/locale/ja/LC_MESSAGES/byobu.mo
<kirkland> danilos: that looks right?
<danilos> kirkland: to get MO files, you need to use "msgfmt -o blah.mo blah.po"
<kirkland> danilos: gotcha, okay, i have that
<kirkland> danilos: it's just been broken up until now
<danilos> kirkland: yes, though note that path depends on bindtextdomain call
<kirkland> danilos: right!
<kirkland> danilos: okay, so i'm ready to roll a release
<kirkland> danilos: but i should probably wait for LP to pick up the changes I just made, renaming those files?
<danilos> kirkland: the export branch looked fine already, though you might hit some conflicts... to resolve them, feel free to overwrite files in your trunk with those from LP export (it merges translations in a smart way for you)
<danilos> kirkland: if you have updates in a branch, then yes, you should wait for LP to import them and export them afterwards
<kirkland> danilos: my text hasn't changed in a long time
<kirkland> danilos: okay, so i'll overwrite, and just take LP's on top of mine
<danilos> kirkland: right, then there's probably no need to wait... a rename is just for the future
<danilos> kirkland: i.e. get translations straight from the bzr export
<cody-somerville> What would case python-launchpadlib to return a string instead of a datetime object?
<cody-somerville> *cause
<intellectronica> cody-somerville: what object.field are you asking for?
<cody-somerville> date_targeted
<cody-somerville> I think its an underlying lib it depends on
<cody-somerville> as I backported karmic's launchpadlib to hardy
<pwolanin> Can anyone point me to instructions for taking an existing source package in launchpad, then making my own version (updated source code), and then getting it into a PPA so it will build?
<bigjools> pwolanin: there's nothing that explicit, but there's a PPA guide at https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
<pwolanin> bigjools:  yeah, that's a little confusing.  So if I have code in launchpad, do I have to upload it again to make a package?
<bigjools> pwolanin: you have a tarball of the source?  or a source package?
<pwolanin> bigjools: basically I want to take this official package, but then update the source and some of the config https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/hardy/nginx/hardy-backports
<bigjools> pwolanin: okay, you shou;d be able to bzr branch it, then change stuff, then run "bzr builddeb"
<bigjools> then upload it to your PPA
<pwolanin> bigjools:  ok, so even if I make my own brnach of this code, there is always a separate uplaod step to the PPA?
<bigjools> pwolanin: yes, that's unavoidable
<pwolanin> bigjools:  ok, that's fine - just trying to grasp the process
<bigjools> later this year we'll be working to put a button somewhere that will upload a branch to your PPA
<pwolanin> bigjools: my bzr doesn't know about builddeb - is that an extra I need ot install?
<bigjools> yeah it's a plugin, not sure where you get it.  james_w?
<james_w> apt-get install bzr-builddeb
<bigjools> there ya go :)
<pwolanin> ok, let me give that a shot - bigjools the magic button would be nice of course :)
<bigjools> it will happen :)
<doko> is there a launchpad developers ML?
<pwolanin> bigjools:  how does the PPA know which version of Ubuntu you want to build for?
<bigjools> doko: yes
<bigjools> launchpad-dev@lists.launchpad.net
<bigjools> pwolanin: it's in the Distribution: field of the control file
<bigjools> or you can override that in the upload path
 * Spads has coffee and a faboo blueberry muffin
<pwolanin> bigjools: ok, so e.g. if I start w/ a Hardy package there will be nothing to change
<Spads> -EWRONGWIN
<pwolanin> bigjools:  odd - the there control file has no Distribution line
<james_w> pwolanin: it's actually the first line of debian/changelog
<pwolanin> james_w: and that controls how the PPA builds it?
<james_w> pwolanin: indirectly
<james_w> "debuild -S" takes what is written there and puts it as the "Distribution:" line in the _source.changes that it creates
<james_w> when you dput that to LP it will use that to decide what to build for
<james_w> unless you override that in the dput path
<pwolanin> hmm, so 8.04 installs an outdated bzr?
<pwolanin> bzr: ERROR: Unknown branch format: 'Bazaar Branch Format 7 (needs bzr 1.6)\n'
<beuno> pwolanin, 8.04 is... a year and a half old
<pwolanin> beuno:  LTS?
<beuno> pwolanin, yes
<beuno> so it wasn't outdated then
<beuno> it's outdated today
<pwolanin> beuno:  it seems to still be the version Canonical would suggest for running a server
<beuno> pwolanin, well, yes, as it's the most stable to date
<beuno> but it also means it has older versions
<beuno> so you may need to installer newer non-default versions
<pwolanin> beuno: yes, sure - I don't see anything in hardy-backports though
<beuno> pwolanin, I don't know about backports, but you can get the latest bzr from it's PPA
<pwolanin> beuno: ya, just looking there
<cr3> I've experienced a chroot problem when building packages for karmic, is that a known problem?
<cjwatson> I'm trying to sort out an urgent problem with Ubuntu, but https://edge.launchpad.net/builders/crested/+edit and https://edge.launchpad.net/builders/molybdenum/+edit are timing out for me
<cjwatson> can anyone help?
<cjwatson> ... never mind, apparently different buildds are happier
<pwolanin> am I doing somethign sill - lp wants create branches for me like  ~pwolanin/+junk
<pwolanin> Do I need to create a project first - even if it's just a placeholder?  I'm a bit lost comparing this to github where I can clone an existing repo easily in order to start my own development
<salgado> intellectronica, can you help pwolanin?
<salgado> pwolanin, do you want to branch from an existing codebase or is this a completely new one?
<maxb> pwolanin: It is mandatory that every branch be associated with a project, or "+junk" (or a distribution source package)
<pwolanin> salgado:  from an existing codebase
<salgado> pwolanin, is it hosted/mirrored in Launchpad already?
<pwolanin> salgado: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/hardy/nginx/hardy-backports
<pwolanin> salgado:  basically I jsut want to use this as a basis for building a newer version of nginx
<salgado> right
<pwolanin> perhaps with some customized configuration
<salgado> pwolanin, in Launchpad there's no need to create the branch through the web UI.  you make the branch using bzr commands, push it to Launchpad when you want and everything gets created automatically
<salgado> $ bzr branch lp:ubuntu/hardy-backports/nginx
<salgado> # hack, commit, push
<pwolanin> salgado:  if I push where does that code go?
<pwolanin> I can push to ~pwolanin/ubuntu/hardy-backports/nginx
<pwolanin> ?
<salgado> by default you have to specify where to push it to
<salgado> yes, that'd be the correct location for this branch
<pwolanin> ok, I was assuming that wasn't allowed based on it not being possible in the UI
<pwolanin> apparently not
<pwolanin> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~pwolanin/ubuntu/hardy-backports/nginx": No such distribution series hardy-backports.
<salgado> pwolanin, I think you have to push it to lp:~pwolanin/ubuntu/hardy/nginx in this case
<pwolanin> salgado: I tried that too
<salgado> pwolanin, what error did you get with that?
<pwolanin> bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:~pwolanin/ubuntu/hardy/nginx": ~pwolanin/ubuntu/hardy/nginx is too short to be a branch name. Try '~<owner>/+junk/<branch>', '~<owner>/<product>/<branch> or '~<owner>/<distribution>/<series>/<sourcepackage>/<branch>'.
<salgado> oh, right
<salgado> you need a branch name
<salgado> lp:~pwolanin/ubuntu/hardy/nginx/<branch-name>
<flacoste> beuno: still around?
<pwolanin> salgado: ah, ok - let's see
<pwolanin> salgado: ok, that did something, thoguh some warning about stacking
<flacoste> beuno: if you could update the conversion script in your account to the latest revision on lp:~flacoste/+junk/3.0-template-tracker
<flacoste> Ursinha: ping
<Ursinha> flacoste, pong
<flacoste> hey Ursinha!
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> hi flacoste
<flacoste> Ursinha, where do you keep the branch holding the QA test plan script?
<Ursinha> flacoste, it's in the lp-qa-tools project
<Ursinha> a moment
<Ursinha> flacoste, here: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ursinha/lp-qa-tools/trunk-test-plan-tool
<flacoste> Ursinha: that's "trunk"?Y
<Ursinha> flacoste, yes
<flacoste> Ursinha: can you set it as the trunk development focus?
<flacoste> err, associated branch?
<Ursinha> flacoste, a convention me and matsubara created when the lp-qa-tools was created
<Ursinha> flacoste, I'm not sure I understand what you mean
<Ursinha> flacoste, we have more than one "trunk" in there because the project has several scripts
<matsubara> flacoste, short answer is no we can't. long answer, rather than have a single branch with all our utilities we have a bunch of small branches for each one and use the project to aggregate all of them
<flacoste> matsubara, Ursinha, a, i see
<flacoste> kind of goes against the grain of Launchpad here
<flacoste> probably makes sense to have all the scripts in one branch
<flacoste> that way you can share more code between them
<Ursinha> flacoste, that makes sense, but the scripts are like mini projects that were created separately and then put together under lp-qa-tools project
<flacoste> Ursinha: i don't see your branch listed on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/lp-qa-tools
<flacoste> right
<flacoste> never too late to fix that
<fta> why are bug comments now folded? are we supposed to use pastebin links now to paste stuff??
<fta> my last comment is barely readable: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bzr-builddeb/+bug/399938/comments/9
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 399938 in bzr-builddeb "unpacking the upstream tarball not working" [Undecided,Fix released]
<Ursinha> flacoste, and now
<Ursinha> ?
<flacoste> yep, i see it
<flacoste> are all the scripts in use on that page now?
<flacoste> probably a bad question to ask
<flacoste> since you probably see everything :-)
<flacoste> i see 11 branches
<flacoste> Ursinha: what's the script that generate the test plans stats for graphing?
<Ursinha> flacoste, nope, not all scripts
<Ursinha> let me do some magic here
<Ursinha> flacoste, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~launchpad/lp-qa-tools/test-stats
<pwolanin> actually got a deb built, but something seems to be missing frmo the ppa docs
<pwolanin> No signature on /home/pwolanin/build-area/nginx_0.7.62-acquia1~hardy1_source.changes.
<pwolanin> gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
<pwolanin> ah, no key info is shown on the PPA page - am I missing something?
<salgado> cprov, can you help pwolanin?
* intellectronica changed the topic of #launchpad to: There is a Planet Launchpad | Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | irc://irc.freenode.net/#launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<pwolanin> anayone knwo about getting the PGP for a ppa?  do I just need to wait longer?
<pwolanin> are these instructions out of date?  https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Your%20PPA%27s%20key
<tormod> are ppa uploads blocked because of the karmic build issues?
<pwolanin> I don't see any sort of notification  https://help.launchpad.net/
<pwolanin> http://blog.launchpad.net/notifications
<cjwatson> tormod: I believe so
<doctormo> Uploading to ppa (via ftp to ppa.launchpad.net): Connection failed, aborting. Check your network [Errno 111] Connection refused
<doctormo> Is everything ok in launchpad land?
<tormod> doctormo: ^^
<cprov> doctormo: ppa.l.m ftpd is dead.
<doctormo> ok
<cprov> doctormo: fixed
<doctormo> wonderful, thanks cprov
<cprov> doctormo: although, as someone mentioned, chroots are still in maintenance thus no builders
<doctormo> cprov: Not a problem, it'll go in queue right?
<cprov> pwolanin: sorry, what's exactly your problem ? (I've lost history)
<cprov> doctormo: yup
<pwolanin> cprov:  trying to get started with a ppa
<pwolanin> cprov:  docs suggest that a GPG key needs to be installed locally from the ppa apge
<cprov> pwolanin: right, and it will only be generated after the first successful upload
<pwolanin> cprov: oh, I get an error abotu a missing key when I try to upload
<cprov> pwolanin: it's not related
<cprov> pwolanin: LP will generate a key to sign the PPA repository contents
<pwolanin> cprov:  ok, it's not on the luanchpad page list of error messages - any ideas then?
<cprov> pwolanin: you need to sign upload with your personal key
<cprov> pwolanin: that's not an LP error, it's debuild AFAICS
<cprov> pwolanin: what's your LP ID ?
<pwolanin> cprov:  pwolanin
<pwolanin> cprov: the erorr says:
<pwolanin> Please remember that the signature file (.sig or .asc)
<pwolanin> should be the first file given on the command line.
<pwolanin> so somewhere the insturctions are missing a step
<cprov> pwolanin: which command line did you run ?
<pwolanin> cprov:  dput acquia nginx_0.7.62-acquia1~hardy1_source.changes
<pwolanin> cprov:  where I edited the conf file per instructions to reference the ppa as "acquia"
<cprov> pwolanin: okay, is your .changes file signed ?
<pwolanin> cprov: no, I did not see that in the instructions
<pwolanin> cprov:  folling this page https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading
<cprov> pwolanin: it's part of the default 'source building' instructions
<cprov> pwolanin: the first link in that page is https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage
<cprov> pwolanin: run `gpg --list-secret-keys pwolanin` and check if there is a secret gpg key available
<pwolanin> cprov:  ok, I saw a note there about possible error messages, but maybe it's here somehwere https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic#Building%20the%20Source%20Package
<cprov> pwolanin: right
<pwolanin> cprov: I have a key and I registered it earlier today w/ launchpad
<wgrant> debuild should have given you a warning that it couldn't find the key.
<pwolanin> wgrant:  hmm someone here suggested using bzr builddeb
<wgrant> The UID on the key needs to precisely match (including any comment) your name and email address in debian/changelog.
<pwolanin> so I did it that way
<wgrant> pwolanin: That uses debuild internally, so that doesn't matter.
<pwolanin> wgrant:  ah, that could be it - I put the team e-mail address not my personal one
<wgrant> pwolanin: If there is a good reason that the key doesn't match the changelog, give bzr-builddeb '-kDEADBEEF', where DEADBEEF is your key ID.
<cprov> ah, bzr-builddeb joy ...
<pwolanin> wgrant: ok, let me try that.  Seems like I needed -S flag too?
<wgrant> pwolanin: Yes, you always need -S for Launchpad uploads.
<cprov> we should write an help page specifically for users using bzr-builddeb and PPAs ...
<cprov> while we implement BuildingSPBranches :)
<wgrant> cprov: This issue wasn't specific to bzr-bd, though.
<james_w> actually, if pwolanin is on an old release it was
<cprov> wgrant: agreed, but a specific help would have helped.
<pwolanin> bzr: ERROR: no such option: -k
<james_w> oh, no
<james_w> bzr-builddeb used to default to not signing
<pwolanin> james_w: I got wahtever hardy installs - though I updated bzr itself via ppa
<pwolanin> james_w: can I just sign the file manually?
<wgrant> Ah. Ancient.
<wgrant> pwolanin: debsign -kabcd1234 blah_source.changes
<pwolanin> so if I just --clearsign the files is that going to work?
<pwolanin> ok
<pwolanin> ok, well did that - new error:  Checksum doesn't match for /home/pwolanin/build-area/nginx_0.7.62-acquia1~hardy1.dsc
<pwolanin> ah success!
#launchpad 2009-09-16
<nhandler> Did they just change the font on LP profiles for edge? Or is it just me?
<wgrant> nhandler: As in your user profile page? They're the same as they've been for ages, but should change in less than 12 hours.
<wgrant> Other pages do have lots of font/padding/everything changes.
<wgrant> Oops, it wasn't the main person page that changed. Just the blueprint stuff.
<wgrant> So no, the profile page hasn't changed, and won't today.
<nhandler> Ok, so it is probably some issue on my end, because the font is definitely different
<wgrant> Huh.
<wgrant> You mean a page like https://launchpad.net/~wgrant?
<nhandler> Yes
<wgrant> lpnet and edge should be the same. Are they not?
<nhandler> wgrant: Hmm... It looks like the issue went away. Definitely was on my end then
<wgrant> odd.
<mrevell> Morning all
<leonardr> hi
<andv> hi, is it possible to have a PPA removed? to allow me to change my LP's login name
<bigjools-afk> andv: not easily, but if you file a question on Soyuz we can take a look
<andv> bigjools-afk, ok, perfect, let me do it
<bigjools_> andv: you are happy to lose the PPA?
<andv> bigjools_, I have nothing important in it, just some test builds
<andv> bigjools_, I gonna create a new clean one after name change
<bigjools_> andv: we could just rename everything for you if you give your new name in the question
<bigjools_> we can't delete PPAs properly right now
<andv> bigjools_, that would be great
<andv> bigjools_, should I add a question or bug for the name change?
<bigjools_> andv: a question please
<bigjools_> it verifies your identidy
<bigjools_> identity, even
<andv> bigjools_: perfect, let me do it
<andv> bigjools_, done
<andv> bigjools_, you should receive a mail soon
<andv> bigjools, around how long will it take to take effect?
<bigjools> andv: the admins will get to it when they can
<andv> bigjools, ok, perfect, thanks
<beuno> flacoste, done
<geser> where (which project/source file) do I have to look at to understand how the WADL file for the LP API gets build/constructed?
<SamB> what's WADL?
<geser> that file describes the LP API in a XML file which is used by launchpadlib
<geser> SamB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Application_Description_Language
<james_w> geser: I think lazr.restful might have something to do with it
<wgrant> Right, lazr.restful does it.
<wgrant> create-lp-wadl.py is the script in LP that does it.
<wgrant> ... but that just makes a request to lazr.restful for it.
<geser> james_w, wgrant: thanks, at least I've a starting point now
<wgrant> geser: If you want some endless pain and suffering, templates/wadl-root.pt in lazr.restful looks like a good option.
<bigjools> james_w: do you know who maintains devscripts?
<james_w> Debian or Ubuntu
<james_w> ?
<bigjools> ubuntu I guess - well, debdiff has a bug in it that fills our disks every time it processes udev packages
<bigjools> and I would like to see if I{ can get it fixed
<james_w> bug #
<james_w> ?
<bigjools> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devscripts/+bug/314436
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 314436 in devscripts "package-diff can generate infinite output" [Undecided,New]
<dhalsimm> hi, I'm having problems with importing my project to launchpad, it is failing, you can see the logs here: https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/pyempires/trunk
<james_w> bigjools: I'm pretty sure that's a diff bug
<bigjools> james_w: :(
<james_w> I can't see debdiff doing anything but unpacking and handing off to diff
<james_w> and diff -Nru on two unpacked udevs appears to show the same symptoms
<bigjools> okay thanks, well at least that's a start in tracking it down, would you mind updating the bug?
<akheron> bigjools: don't know if you remember my python-simplejson problem a few days back
<akheron> but i changed the order in build-depends to python-simplejson | python (>= 2.6) and it works
<akheron> it seems that the build system doesn't install dependencies correctly in all cases
<bigjools> ah good to know, thanks
<happyaron> danilos: there is one template in enlightenment project that launchpad sent me 10 mails to notice its importation
<danilos> happyaron, how do you upload stuff there?
<danilos> happyaron, also, I've seen that there have been template uploads with different file names, but all to the same template (titling, I think)
<danilos> happyaron, is that the one?
<happyaron> danilos: no, emu
<danilos> happyaron, so, how did you upload files there? what page did you use?
<happyaron> danilos: I upload them under each template
<danilos> happyaron, you should probably use a tarball with all the templates instead (or even better, a bzr branch)
<happyaron> danilos: bzr branch cannot be imported to lp correctly, tried several times, but e svn is not standard
<danilos> happyaron, then it'd be less likely that errors could happen, and you'd get less approver worries
<danilos> happyaron, right, but you can still construct a tarball (or just create a branch just for translations)
<danilos> happyaron, the bzr feature will do the best job with regards to filenames and such
<danilos> happyaron, i.e. you can create a bzr branch containing POT and PO files and have that imported, and it will be easier for you to sync those
<happyaron> danilos: oj
<danilos> happyaron, or, you can use a tarball instead, if you are not comfortable with bzr
<happyaron> oh
<danilos> happyaron, basically, if you create a tarball containing "e/enlightenment.pot e/de.po e/zh_CN.po ... emu/emu.pot emu/de.po ..." and upload that (or the same layout in a bzr branch), it'd work much better
<happyaron> danilos: no I wrote a script to pack tarball from e svn, both a big pack and a separated one
<danilos> happyaron, and it'll be either a single upload for you (tarball), or a simple 'bzr commit && bzr push' (bzr imports)
<happyaron> danilos: okay, I should use the big pack next, I have ever worried about the bigpack will cause problems,
<danilos> happyaron, thanks...
<happyaron> danilos: thank you for your dedication, :)
<danilos> happyaron, hey, no worries, I am sorry it's so confusing right now :)
<geser> wgrant: I assume I need a working launchpad environment to run create-lp-wadl.py, right?
<wgrant> geser: Yes.
<geser> so it's time I setup one :(
<geser> or is there some ready to use vm image?
<wgrant> There isn't.
<wgrant> But the script does it all for you.
<geser> I've seen the script and what it does. Therefore I'm thinking to put it into some separated environment so it's easy to undo if I don't need it anymore (or need to start from fresh in case I broke something miserably)
<superm1> so rather than this redirect trying to get people to use ubuntu-bug to file their bugs, wouldn't it make more sense to add the same functionality of ubuntu-bug into say a firefox plugin?  that was people could install a "launchpad firefox plugin" that runs ubuntu-bug on the package they're filing against to gather all the data
<superm1> and then the experience isn't so jumpy
<pwolanin> a quick question about ppa uploads for launchpad - does the gpg key used to sign the package have to be associated with your launchpad account?
<bigjools> pwolanin: yes
<pwolanin> bigjools: ah, so it that how the upload is authenticated - rather than ssh key?
<bigjools> pwolanin: yes, uploads are done with ftp, so the gpg key is the only way of verifying identify
<bigjools> identity, even
<pwolanin> bigjools:  I think you mentioned at some point there will be a mechanism (e.g. a button) to send a branch directly to the ppa to be built?  I guess in that case the launchpad login is essentially the authentication?
<bigjools> pwolanin: yes, when that's implemented that's correct
<pwolanin> bigjools: ok, thanks - still trying to figure out how it all fits together.  Is there a way to add to the documentation?
<bigjools> pwolanin: the public wiki might be editable by you?  if not I'll happily accept improvements to our docs!
<smoser> how does https://code.launchpad.net/vmbuilder know if a branch is "vmbuilder" ?
<pwolanin> bigjools: ah, ok - after login looks like I can edit the help pages https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading?action=edit
<bigjools> great!
<smoser> ah, maybe it only shows them if the user uses 'register a branch' . i was thinking it automatically new
<pi-meson> This might be an impolitic question, but is there any way to buy / rent additional launchpad build bot cycles?
<lantash1> QUESTION: Can somebody explain me why l get an Oops! (both on main and edge) when I try to set up a translation export to lp:lottanzb/0.5-translations using https://translations.launchpad.net/lottanzb/0.5/+link-translations-branch ? lp:~lottanzb/lottanzb/0.5-translations doesn't work either, as it reports "Invalid value.". No matter if the lp: prefix is used or not.
<lantash1> am I missing something
<lantash1> ?
<Ursinha> lantash1, do you have the oops id, please?
<rowinggolfer> greetings.
<rowinggolfer> could anyone advise me re a mailing list for a project?
<rowinggolfer> I just got this https://answers.launchpad.net/openmolar/+question/82997
<rowinggolfer> 1. should I set one up?
<rowinggolfer> 2. if answer(1) == "yes".... any recommendations where?
<andv> danilos-afk: around?
<rowinggolfer> actually.. that "answers" part of launchpad is a mailing list, no?
<bdrung_> how can i obtain the number of affected people by a bug?
<wgrant> bdrung_: You can get it through the API, I believe.
<bdrung_> wgrant: do you have an example?
<wgrant> bdrung_: The 'users_affected_count' of a bug object has what you want.
<bdrung_> wgrant: have you an example for accessing the api?
<wgrant> bdrung_: https://help.launchpad.net/API
<wgrant> You probably want to hunt on there for launchpadlib.
<bdrung_> wgrant: ok, i started the interactive python, from launchpadlib import launchpad, and then?
<wgrant> bdrung_: Get a bug as shown in the example.
<bdrung_> ah, found that page
<bdrung_> wgrant: thanks
<wgrant> bdrung_: np
#launchpad 2009-09-17
<desrt> hi.  i'm having trouble uploading to my PPA
<wgrant> desrt: What's it not doing?
<desrt> it's uploading, but then i get a rejection email saying that the file is already there
<wgrant> The file is already there.
<desrt> i deleted it
<wgrant> That doesn't matter.
<wgrant> You can never upload the same version again.
<desrt> it's no longer showing on the PPA page
<desrt> that sucks a lot :(
<wgrant> Why?
<desrt> is it possible for an admin to go in and delete the files?
<wgrant> Uploading the same version would be very confusing to users, and confuse apt even harder.
<wgrant> Why?
<wgrant> Why not just bump the version?
<desrt> because nobody downloaded it
<desrt> it was a botched upload and now i've fixed it
<wgrant> => it's a new version => new version number
<wgrant> It really does make things a lot less confusing for everybody.
<desrt> is it possible to nuke the entire PPA?
<wgrant> You could get an admin to rename and disable it for you.
<wgrant> But doing that just to upload the same version again seems like a very bad idea.
<desrt> hmm
<desrt> "  Package deletion can take some time before the packages are actually removed. See the full PPA help page. "
<desrt> shame the help page says nothing on the topic :p
<desrt> maybe when i wake up tomorrow it will be gone
<wgrant> You still won't be able to reupload.
<desrt> it seems exceptionally silly
<wgrant> Why?
<desrt> because it's my PPA
<desrt> why should i be prevented from deleting something that i just uploaded?
<wgrant> You were able to delete it.
<desrt> what if i accidentally uploaded my password or something
<wgrant> You just can't upload something immensely confusing.
<desrt> it's still on the archive
<desrt> that's the problem
<wgrant> It should be removed from the archive disk within a day.
<desrt> right.  that's what i hope for.
<wgrant> However it will remain accessible from the web UI forever unless you get an admin to remove it.
<desrt> the email makes it very clear that the fact that it's on the archive is a problem
<desrt> it's already gone from the UI
<wgrant> Not if you search for deleted packages.
<wgrant> The publishing status refers to the status on ppa.launchpad.net. Nowhere else.
<desrt> oh interesting
<desrt> there's a bug in the web interface
<wgrant> Where?
<desrt> you can't search for superseeded packages from the delete page
<desrt> so you can delete packages, but only if they haven't been superseeded
<desrt> that seems to be the problem
<wgrant> That's not the problem.
<desrt> it's quite reproduceable
<wgrant> +delete-packages will show any packages that haven't yet been removed.
<wgrant> Why would you want to delete a package that has already been removed because it was superseded?
<desrt> it's still on the archive
<desrt> the superseeded package is still on the archive.  the new one is already deleted.
<desrt> the web interface lets me search for 'superseded' from the delete page
<desrt> but it returns no results
<desrt> so there's definitely a bug here.  perhaps 2.
<wgrant> No.
<wgrant> It's just confusing.
<wgrant> Let me explain.
<wgrant> .
<desrt> ok
<wgrant> It's a bit strange, but it does make sense.
<wgrant> Packages will show up on +delete-packages if there are bits of them that haven't been removed yet.
<wgrant> If a package is marked Superseded or Deleted, it is not removed from disk immediately.
<desrt> on the archive or in the PPA webapp?
<wgrant> Archive.
<wgrant> In the case of a Deleted publication, it will be eligible for removable immediately.
<wgrant> In the case of a Superseded one, it will become eligible for removal in 24 hours.
<desrt> so the reason that this pacakge is not showing on the +delete is because it's already queued for delete by virtue of having been superseeded?
<wgrant> Yes.
<desrt> that's very very strange
<wgrant> Now, on my PPA some deleted and superseded packages do show up.
<desrt> you remove your ability to immediately delete a particular release by making a new release
<wgrant> Er, what?
<desrt> here was my exact sequence of actions:
<wgrant> It's not shown on the page because you don't need to remove it!
<desrt> 1) upload pkg0
<desrt> 2) upload pkg1
<desrt> (ie: pkg1 supercedes pkg0)
<desrt> 3) delete pkg1
<desrt> 4) try very hard (and fail) to delete pkg0
<desrt> 5) note that the archive contains pkg0 (but pkg1 is completely gone)
<wgrant> What is the timeline?
<desrt> all today
<desrt> a few hours between pkg0 and pkg1 since the builders were slow with the alpha build today
<desrt> now here's why i think there is at least one bug:
<desrt> even if i accept that it makes no sense to want to delete packages that have already been marked as superseded then why does teh +delete-packages page have 'superseded' as an option in the pulldown menu to search for packages to delete?
<wgrant> I'm looking at that now.
<wgrant> But why do you care?
<desrt> (and i don't even accept that premise, which is why i think there may be 2 bugs)
<desrt> because it's exceptionally misleading?
<wgrant> That still won't help you upload the same version.
<wgrant> The main use-case for deleting a superseded package is reducing your disk usage to get under your PPA quota. Normally you'd have to wait for the quarantine period.
<desrt> the whole "we refuse to delete your data" mentality is a bit odd to me, i must admit
<Flannel> Hi all, what steps do we have to go through to get two teams merged?  One is now defunct, it'd be nice to have it not sitting around.  Do we file a question against launchpad still? or is there a better method now?
<wgrant> Flannel: File a question.
<Flannel> wgrant: Alright thanks
<aboSamoor1> I have personal branch. can I separate to different personal branches ?
<Meths> You can branch branches
<aboSamoor1> Meths: my work is saved under folders, I want to make a new branch for each folder without loosing the history
<wgrant> aboSamoor1: Ah. Have a look at the bzr-split plugin. Also, #bzr is better for this sort of question.
<aboSamoor1> wgrant: thanks :)
<desrt> wgrant: thanks for your help earlier
<desrt> you were right.  launchpad rejected the upload of all but a totally unseen before version number
<desrt> weird, but whatever :p
<desrt> nite
<ub3rst4r> does anyone know how to convert .resx to .pot so they can be uploaded to the translations section
<mwhudson> do ppas check if a built package can be installed during the build process?
<wgrant> mwhudson: No.
<mwhudson> hooray
<wgrant> Why?
<mwhudson> i have a package that fails to install
<wgrant> I see.
<mwhudson> i'm uploading a hacked up version of it to launchpad
<mwhudson> but it's for hardy, which i don't have lying around
<ub3rst4r> does anyone know anything about .pot or how the translations work?
<spm> ub3rst4r: the translations guys aren't around yet; perhaps another 2-3 hours?
<ub3rst4r> k thanks
<Q-FUNK> somehow, it seems that recent chnages in LP have obfuscated the location of the menu to change which package is affected by a bug and help.lp.net isn't helping. would anyone know where that went?
<mat_t> hey LP people
<mat_t> Been trying to report a bug in Software Store, but "Report a bug" button takes me to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<james_w> mat_t: yes, you are now asked to follow the instructions there to report the bug
<james_w> ubuntu-bug software-store
<mat_t> james_w: oh
<mat_t> james_w: does it mean we're actively discouraging people from using LP?
<james_w> no
<james_w> ubuntu-bug opens an LP page to report the bug, it just attaches lots of juicy information that saves you typing it in
<james_w> package versions and the like
<mat_t> aaah
<mat_t> I see
<mat_t> clever :)
<james_w> which a lot of people skip giving, so the first interaction is "what version of Ubuntu are you using?"
<mat_t> cool
<mat_t> I still think this instructions page should be *within* LP
<mat_t> james_w: OK, so I'm in Karmic, and I'm trying to report a design/usability bug in Software Store... How do I do it?
<james_w> <james_w> ubuntu-bug software-store
<james_w> or "Help -> Report a problem" if there is an option in software-store
<mat_t> james_w: yeah tried it, but it doesn't let me enter any information, just sends the report
<james_w> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Filing%20a%20bug%20with%20ubuntu-bug
<kklimonda> hey
<mat_t> james_w: ok thx
<kklimonda> is it normal that I don't get emails for new bugs that are set to private for packages I'm subscribed to even if I'm in ubuntu-bugcontrol ?
<james_w> mat_t: http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/2009/09/16/Reporting_Bugs
<james_w> kklimonda: yes unfortunately
<james_w> mat_t: it is supposed to open a browser for you to complete the process, but firefox may be crashing for you as it is for me
<wgrant> kklimonda: That's an awkward thing to fix, unfortunately.
<z3l> hi everybody
<z3l> how can i add a project host on launchpad to the file sources list ?
<z3l> i mean the file /etc/apt/sources.list
<deryck> wgrant, ping
<wgrant> deryck: Hi.
<z3l> I read this : https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/InstallingSoftware but i can't find "the first line from the apt sources.list entries section of the PPA overview page."
<noodles775> z3l: click on the 'Technical information' link...
 * noodles775 checks for exact wording...
<noodles775> z3l: in the 'Adding this PPA to your system' section.
<wgrant> z3l: How did you get to that page?
<wgrant> noodles775: Quite a few people seem to get to the help wiki without ever seeing the PPA overview page. Maybe some places just link to the ppa.launchpad.net address.
<mat_t> james_w: yeah, that's exactly what happened
<mat_t> james_w: thanks :)
<noodles775> wgrant: Ah, I see.
<z3l> wgrant : from here -> https://help.launchpad.net/FrontPage
<wgrant> z3l: How did you know that you wanted to install a PPA? Did you have a particular one in mind?
<doctormo> Is there any way to use launchpadlib without having it oauth every fickin time? It's making debuging a nighmare and slow
<wgrant> doctormo: You can save and load credentials.
<wgrant> doctormo: There's an example at https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib, IIRC.
<wgrant> doctormo: And consumers like ubuntu-dev-tools have helpers.
<doctormo> wgrant: thank you, I just don't understand why people are still using oauth.
<z3l> wgrant : i would like to install ktoon 0.8.4.1 -> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktoon
<wgrant> doctormo: ... why shouldn't they?
<doctormo> wgrant: firefox isn't an operating system, reinventing authorisation and then trying to man handle a website cross auth into a client desktop auth system. It's just not right.
<wgrant> doctormo: That's just the current implementation of the authorization part of Launchpad's OAuth support.
<z3l> I must be blind, i don't see 'Technical information' link 'Technical information' link
<wgrant> z3l: That's not a PPA.
<wgrant> There is no ktoon in any PPA.
<wgrant> And there is no ktoon 0.8.4.1 package known to Launchpad.
<doctormo> wgrant: Aye, hopefully there'll be a future token based system which intergrates the authorisation into the whole os and not just for launchpad.
<doctormo> Or just for firefox
 * doctormo dreams about web browsers not having cookies any more
<wgrant> doctormo: What is your exact complaint with the way things currently work?
<wgrant> How would it be done better? At some point the provider (LP) has to interact with the user almost directly, or everything collapses.
<doctormo> wgrant: none, except for a web browser requirement, none at all. You've done what needed to be done with OAuth. Ignore.
<z3l> what is this link : https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ktoon, just a hosted source page ?
<wgrant> doctormo: Well, LP is a webapp...
<noodles775> z3l: so you don't need to do anything complicated to install ktoon 0.8.1-4... Just go to Applications->Add/Remove...
<wgrant> z3l: That's an Ubuntu source package.
<noodles775> and search for it there.
<wgrant> z3l: That shows the versions of ktoon available by default in each Ubuntu release.
<doctormo> wgrant: And say if I wanted to talk to auth on a text only desktop. Just for sake of asking.
<wgrant> doctormo: Then I use links to go to the authorization URL.
<doctormo> wgrant: If it were me, I'd take the username and password, have those boxes in my os wide service add, do the hoke with the tokens and forget the password once done. No need for web browsers, only for http requests.
<wgrant> doctormo: Perhaps a non-browser official client could be provided, but consumers can't just ask for email address and password.
<doctormo> wgrant: Web browser is a consumer, something has to act as client, I'd rather it wasn't an easily fooled web browser.
<wgrant> doctormo: The browser is not the consumer.
<doctormo> wgrant: Only the operating system, I understand what your getting at, but I don't quite agree.
<wgrant> doctormo: Huh?
<wgrant> I never said anything about the operating system.
<z3l> wgrant & noodles775 : thank you for answer, i understand better now :)
<doctormo> wgrant: typical OAuth treats the web browser as soemthing special, I have no idea why, it's not like it's very secure. It's just a replacement for propper os based auth sessions, hence mistakenly treating it like it's the os by calling it like a core service for service auths.
<wgrant> doctormo: Because OAuth is normally used as an alternative access method to webapps, so the browser already has a secure copy of the master credentials.
<doctormo> wgrant: It only has that because it's got it's own set of credentials that the os isn't privy too. If it was backed onto the same system, it wouldn't matter.
<wgrant> doctormo: Ah, so you are asking for a fundamental shift of all Web authentication?
<Daviey> doctormo: err, if you try and use launchpadlib on a box without firefox it falls back to w3m.. So ANY browser.. it's not fair to mention firefox specifically.
<doctormo> Daviey: Your right, I'm being unfair to firefox. ANY web browser.
<doctormo> wgrant: Well yes and no, I don't think the industry is going to shift. But it doesn't mean that devels should follow the line completly. Having a second lp auth that allows a http, non-brwoser client would be good, use something simple to specify the required fields and don't use html.
* gmb changed the topic of #launchpad to: There is a Planet Launchpad | Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: gmb | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | irc://irc.freenode.net/#launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<popey> gmb: HELP!
<gmb_> popey: Did you actually want my help or did you just shout "HELP" to crash my laptop? 'Cos that's what happened.
<popey> heh
<popey> No, just testing my crashscript
<gmb> popey: Thanks for that, good to know.
<popey> yw
<flacoste> BjornT: did bzr-git worked to push to github?
<BjornT> flacoste: no. bzr-git doesn't support pushing yet (at least not according to the docs, i didn't actually try)
<flacoste> BjornT: ok, so you used git itself to create a branch and apply the patch, i guess
<BjornT> flacoste: yeah. wasn't much problem, since it was only one commit
<doctormo> Are there ways to list all the available bzr branches (code) for a given project using launchpadlib?
<james_w> doctormo: https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc/
<james_w> search for getBranches
<james_w> you can call it on a project, team or person
<doctormo> thanks james_w
<lantash1> QUESTION: Can somebody tell me why the automatic synchronization and one-time import don't work here: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/lottanzb/0.5 I requested an import several times during the past days and nothing happened
<lantash1> ah, it just looks like they haven't been reviewed. Can somebody with the required privileges do that for me? https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/lottanzb/0.5/+imports
<dpm> lantash1: it seems that you didn't import a POT template together with the PO files. I believe that's why they are stuck in Need Review. LP cannot figure out where to import those translations without a template
<tomfriedhof_> I can't access this url http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davidstrauss/pressflow/6/
<pwolanin> tomfriedhof_: hmm, I was just there a little while ago
<pwolanin> I can access it now
<tomfriedhof_> thanks pwolanin, I just grabbed the gz file and ran a diff
<niemeyer> Hey guys
<niemeyer> I'm wondering if there's some issue relative to the ordering of releases, or if I'm missing some step
<niemeyer> https://edge.launchpad.net/image-store-proxy
<niemeyer> The latest release is 0.9.1, as shown in the "series and milestones" graph
<niemeyer> But the Downloads link in the right hand side actually shows 0.9
<niemeyer> I'm not sure if I did something stupid or if Launchpad is a bit lost there
<pwolanin> I'm trying to push a copy of an existing branch to a new branch, but launchpad is giving me a bzr error
<pwolanin> Using default stacking branch /~vcs-imports/drupal/main at lp-45211920:///~acquia/drupal
<pwolanin> bzr: ERROR: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', "KnitPackRepository('lp-45211920:///~vcs-imports/drupal/main/.bzr/repository')\nis not compatible with\nKnitPackRepository('lp-45211920:///~acquia/drupal/1.x-6.x/.bzr/repository')\ndifferent rich-root support")
<pwolanin> I guess "different rich-root support" is the key item here?
<james_w> pwolanin: yes, that's the key
<pwolanin> james_w: ok, maybe I got it to work by deleting the empty branch I'd created on lp and then pushing
<james_w> that's possible
<james_w> at least it is working :-)
<pwolanin> james_w: can you explain what a stacked branch is?
<james_w> sorry, got to dash
<james_w> someone else will be able to
<quentusrex> Why does an orig get counted multiple times for the size limit in a ppa?
<quentusrex> each version increment uses the same orig file, but it's counted for each package version... I have a 160MB orig file with sound files and images, but for each package version it fills up the space quickly...
<quentusrex> even though it should only be stored once.
<wgrant> quentusrex: File a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+filebug. It's a pretty easy fix.
<quentusrex> ok, thanks.
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> Actually, it's not so easy.
<wgrant> But file it anyway.
<quentusrex> I'm filing
<quentusrex> https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/432152
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432152 in soyuz "orig files for source packages are being counted for each version" [Undecided,New]
<quentusrex> Also, for building for multiple releases, do I need to rebuild the whole package with the ~release added to the end?
<quentusrex> I've already deleted the orig file from a previous attempt, but it says: File freeswitch_1.0.4.orig.tar.gz already exists in PPA for PBXbuntu Drivers, but uploaded version has different contents.
<quentusrex> it was a corrupted orig file...
<quentusrex> the original was
<wgrant> quentusrex: You can't ever upload one with the same name.
<wgrant> quentusrex: How was it corrupted? Why was it changed at all from upstream>?
<quentusrex> there is no upstream package yet.
<quentusrex> and the files inside it were corrupted.
<quentusrex> I'm building the ubuntu package first,
<quentusrex> but someone else is working to get the debian package later
<wgrant> Well, you'll have to change the version of the orig.tar.gz.
<wgrant> Either by making it 1.0.5, 1.0.4+repack, or something else.
<quentusrex> ok
<quentusrex> that doesn't work... :(
<wgrant> quentusrex: What goes wrong?
<quentusrex> it doesn't detect the repack orig properly...
<quentusrex> during the build process
<wgrant> quentusrex: Did you specify the right version in the changelog?
<quentusrex> hmm
<quentusrex> that could be why....
<wgrant> Um.
<wgrant> Your last couple of uploads were native.
<wgrant> Oh, no, that was a couple of days ago.
<quentusrex> yeah...
<quentusrex> what does native mean?
<wgrant> It means that the diff.gz and orig.tar.gz are merged into one tar.gz, which is different every time.
<quentusrex> ok
<quentusrex> makes sense
<quentusrex> awesome, that worked.
<wgrant> Great.
<quentusrex> is there a page for naming and what you can do with the package naming?
#launchpad 2009-09-18
<tonyyarusso> I think the MOTU wiki page has some guidelines in general quentusrex.
<quentusrex> I read that... I was hoping for something along the lines of a handful of examples
<wgrant> Well, there are lots of different situations.
<wgrant> It would be impractical to provide examples for all.
<quentusrex> yeah, that's the part that would help the most though...
<wgrant> But #ubuntu-motu can probably answer all of your packaging questions.
<quentusrex> even if it wasn't for all situations, atleast enough to get a grasp on it.
<quentusrex> yeah, I'm in there...
<quentusrex> Is there a howto for setting up my own launchpad install to include build servers?
<quentusrex> the project I'm working on could use this kind of system. and be able to package for multiple different releases and OS's.
<wgrant> quentusrex: No. You very probably don't want to do that.
<quentusrex> wgrant: why's that?
<wgrant> quentusrex: For one thing, you can't run a Launchpad instance with the provided images.
<wgrant> And it's overly difficult.
<wgrant> Why not use launchpad.net?
<quentusrex> well, we'd like to be able to build for CentOS and other OS's
<quentusrex> and launchpad seems to only support apt based, and ubuntu... maybe debian?
<wgrant> quentusrex: Only Ubuntu for now. Debian will probably happen eventually, as it's very similar, but CentOS is completely different and would need a *lot* of work to support.
<quentusrex> right...
<quentusrex> it'd be interesting to have a modular build system
<quentusrex> something that might be able to build on windows as well
<quentusrex> but that's a whole different story....
<quentusrex> yeah...
<wgrant> It is already somewhat modular. But there's still a lot of code that would have to be written.
<quentusrex> wgrant: that orig issue I filed a bug about....
<quentusrex> the orig file is now about 422MB
<wgrant> Sounds like you might want to get your quota increased.
<wgrant> But why is it so massive!?
<quentusrex> sound files
<quentusrex> we have CD quality sound files for telephony systems
<quentusrex> if you have a phone that can do high def calls
<quentusrex> what's the process for getting the quota increased?
<quentusrex> wgrant: you've heard of asterisk? for voip calls?
<wgrant> quentusrex: Ask a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/soyuz/+addquestion
<wgrant> quentusrex: Of course.
<quentusrex> wgrant: check out freeswitch. it's more stable, and has MANY more features
<wgrant> quentusrex: I'd consider creating a separate -data source package, so you don't have to reupload the data every time you change the code.
<wgrant> Since presumably the data will change very infrequently.
<quentusrex> but there is no official gui... and FreePBX is just now building a compatible gui
<quentusrex> wgrant: how would I build that data package? I already have it building as a multiple binary package, with each level of sounds for a binary
<quentusrex> if you only want low quality, that's all you download, but how would I do that for upload too?
<wgrant> quentusrex: You keep the data in a separate .orig.tar.gz, and have a separate freeswitch-data source package that you upload.
<wgrant> Lots of games do something like that.
<quentusrex> hmm
<quentusrex> that'd be interesting....
<quentusrex> I'll look into that...
<wgrant> Anyway, I need to run.
<quentusrex> thanks for the help wgrant
<wgrant> quentusrex: np
<Noldorin> hello.
<Noldorin> how do i create an OpenPGP key on windows?
<Noldorin> i'm pretty new to the whole idea, so any advice would be appreciated
<Noldorin> just looking for one to put on launchpad, really
<thumper> Noldorin: have you looked on help.launchpad.net?
<Noldorin> thumper: nope, just noticed the main guide only mentioned ubuntu: https://launchpad.net/+help/openpgp-keys.html#publish
<wgrant> Noldorin: What are you going to use it for?
<Noldorin> wgrant: signing the unbutu code of conduct
<Noldorin> and possible distributing packages in the future
<wgrant> Signing the Ubuntu CoC from Windows. Does not compute!
<Noldorin> lol
<Noldorin> i though i might get that reaction
<Noldorin> i'm really just doing it in relation to launchpad
<Noldorin> seems like i just want to download something from here: http://gnupg.org/download/index.en.html
<wgrant> Possibly. Last time I used GnuPG on Windows (about 5 years ago?), there were two Windows GUIs. Both were pretty bad.
<Noldorin> i'd believe it
<Noldorin> though much can change in five years...
<Noldorin> having a GUI is not important, anyway
<Noldorin> wgrant: right, so i have the command line utility open now. any hints on how i'd want to create a key for my given purpose?
<Noldorin> or anyone else, for that matter?
<wgrant> Noldorin: gpg --gen-key
<Noldorin> key kind?
<Noldorin> 1, i presume
<wgrant> DSA/Elgamal will do.
<Noldorin> ok
<Noldorin> wgrant: but will rsa/rsa suffice (or be the better option) if i'm going to be using it more widely?
<wgrant> Noldorin: RSA/RSA (not sign-only) is possibly a better option now, yes.
<Noldorin> right ho
 * wgrant disappears to a meeting.
<Noldorin> wgrant: thanks for the help
<Noldorin> seems to be all set up now
<Noldorin> :)
 * jml afk
<jml> anyone know what happened to gmb?
 * jml away again
<jml> ok. good.
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: There is a Planet Launchpad | Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: jml | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | irc://irc.freenode.net/#launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<jml> mwhudson, rockstar: there's an import branch failing with a funny error message: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31897292/pyempires-trunk-log.txt -- got any ideas on how to fi it?
<mwhudson> jml: no, assembla is weird though
<jml> mwhudson, hmm. what should I suggest to the people trying to import it?
<jml> (I was going to say "branch owner".)
<mwhudson> jml: try bzr svn?
<jml> mwhudson, ok.
<mwhudson> which isn't much of a suggestion i know
<jml> It's still something.
<jml> I wish we were using bzr-svn
<jml> I wish we were using python 2.5
<wgrant> Just needs somebody to go through and fix a few failures, now that maxb has fixed the world.
<jml> wgrant, is there a list of failures somewhere?
<wgrant> jml: LaunchpadOnKarmic has a list with some initial analysis.
<jml> thanks
<jml> that page is much shorter than it used to be :)
<wgrant> It got much longer 24 hours ago, though :(
<wgrant> Somebody keeps breaking things in strange ways.
<jml> who?
<wgrant> Not sure.
<wgrant> It was all working on 2.4.
<wgrant> Now it is not.
<rockstar> wgrant, my Karmic install is fine.
<rockstar> ...although I guess I haven't rebooted recently.
<wgrant> rockstar: Even the tests on LaunchpadOnKarmic?
<rockstar> wgrant, ah, I hardly run any tests on Karmic.  Just the code tests, and then the rest is off to ec2
<wgrant> rockstar: Can you try lp.codehosting.puller.tests.test_scheduler.TestPullerMasterIntegration.test_mirror?
<rockstar> wgrant, I can when I'm done with what I'm doing here.
<wgrant> rockstar: Great.
 * wgrant lunching.
<jml> "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode. Thanks for your patience."
<jml> mwhudson, can you please remind me what needs to be done in cases like this: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+question/82985i
<mwhudson> jml: is "get a sysadmin to stab the appserver" an appropriate response?
<jml> mwhudson, only by some measures.
<jml> Error validating server certificate for 'https://fsckyou.info:443':
<jml>  - The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the
<jml>    fingerprint to validate the certificate manually!
<wgrant> An edge appserver is borked.
<wgrant> spm: Kick kick kick.
<mwhudson> wgrant: we know, and more usefully, someone who can do something about it knows
<wgrant> mwhudson: OK, thanks.
<mwhudson> jml: the answer is "get a losa to faff about on the slave" (again)
<spiv> "bzr: ERROR: xmlrpc protocol error connecting to https://xmlrpc.edge.launchpad.net/bazaar/: 502 Bad Gateway
<jml> mwhudson, awesome.
<mwhudson> spiv: we know
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: An edge server is down, it's on its way back up | Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: jml | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | #launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<jml> wgrant, can you do me a favour and take a look at https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/83007 please?
<wgrant> jml: Looking.
<jml> wgrant, thanks.
* mwhudson changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: jml | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | #launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<quentusrex> wgrant: you can see the source miscalc on the ppa right now
<quentusrex> https://launchpad.net/~pbxbuntu-drivers/+archive/ppa
<wgrant> quentusrex: Hmmmm, I see.
<quentusrex> and right now I can't fix a build problem because I can't upload another 10 MB because it'll try to count the orig again...
<wgrant> Um.
<wgrant> The usage just jumped again.
<quentusrex> yup
<quentusrex> it let me upload the next one,
<quentusrex> but it says I'm over my limit
<wgrant> Ah, I see.
<cdm10> hi, I'm confused as to how to change my settings for getting updates to subscribed bugs. For some reason I'm not receiving them -- where can I fix this?
<wgrant> cdm10: There is no setting for that, because it is always the case.
<cdm10> grr. I shall have to poke my Gmail filters then.
<cdm10> what do bug emails look like? are they prefixed with anything?
<wgrant> cdm10: [Bug 12345] at the start of the subject.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
<cdm10> Dammit, Gmail. Erkh. I figured it out. A careless filter was putting it all in my "Sent Mail."
<wgrant> Aha.
<wgrant> OH.
<wgrant> It all makes sense now.
<wgrant> (I was confused by a proxy in front of LP)
<wgrant> quentusrex: So, due to bad technical reasons, if you omit an orig.tar.gz it is still reuploaded internally.
<wgrant> quentusrex: You might notice that your quota doesn't drop immediately after you delete a package.
<wgrant> quentusrex: That's because the files aren't actually removed from the archive disk for some time after you delete them.
<quentusrex> right, I noticed the quota thing, but I'm not concerned.
<quentusrex> as long as it doesn't count against me, to prevent me from fixing stuff.
<wgrant> You should get your quota increased, since you're dealing with big stuff.
<wgrant> But each orig.tar.gz should only count against you once.
<wgrant> Indeed, in a few hours it probably will only count against you once, as LP realises the three files are the same.
<quentusrex> I've sent in a request for more space...
<quentusrex> hmm, that makes some sense about the reupload internally,
<quentusrex> but it should either not count against the ppa, or it should check to see if it is there, and if it is(plus any other hash checks) then just create a symbolic link or something.
<quentusrex> since many packages have the same setup... where they upload orig's then diff off of that for a while.
<quentusrex> wgrant: right now I'm trying to fix the build scripts because they assume you have internet access when you  try to build the packages...
<wgrant> quentusrex: It doesn't actually duplicate the package on the archive disk. In most cases the file only needs to be in one place, but if it needs to be in multiple places it just symlinks.
<wgrant> But there's a file storage location in between the upload and the published archive disk.
<wgrant> It's that that has the three copies.
<quentusrex> wgrant: awesome to hear about the file system being intelligent.
<quentusrex> aah, ok
<quentusrex> but why should the end user, the package uploader, know about the 3 copies?
<wgrant> quentusrex: Right, for security reasons PPA builds don't have network access apart from the Ubuntu archive.
<wgrant> They shouldn't.
<quentusrex> ok
<wgrant> It's a very internal implementation detail that's unfortunately being exposed by a somewhat strange disk space calculation.
<quentusrex> hmm, interesting...
<quentusrex> I've been building a GUI professionally for the last 9 months... so I now notice these things...
 * quentusrex now has a voice in the back of his head asking "why should the user have to see that , or even know that exists?"
<wgrant> Heh.
<wgrant> Probably a good thing.
<quentusrex> yeah... but it's really annoying when it's someone else's project that I'm looking at...
<quentusrex> because it means I might have to make a patch...
<jml> happyaron, hi
<happyaron> jml: hi
<jml> happyaron, I noticed that you've previously answered this open question: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/82948
<happyaron> jml: yes, what's the matter?
<jml> happyaron, the person who asked the question still has another question, and I don't really know how to answer it :)
<jml> happyaron, they ask, "Can i create than a new language group in Launchpad Translators?"
 * jml doesn't know
<happyaron> ah, that's not easy to answer, :)
<happyaron> jml: I think we perhaps could tell him how to assign Launchpad Translators for his project
<jml> happyaron, ok.
<jml> happyaron, I'm sure you could do a much better job of that than I could.
<happyaron> jml: okay, I will answer him
<jml> happyaron, thank you :)
<happyaron> jml: my pleasure, :)
 * jml will read the answer, in order to learn more about Translations.
<quentusrex> thanks for the post wgrant
<quentusrex> I see the comment on the bug report.
<wgrant> quentusrex: Confused yet?
<quentusrex> wgrant: nope. that makes sense. I deal with a large virtual enviroment already :)
<quentusrex> but I just got my first rejection letter because of over sized ppa...
<quentusrex> so now I have to reupload the files...
<quentusrex> ~400MB....
<quentusrex> I wish there was a way to 'retry' files that were rejected for issues like ppa size, etc.
<wgrant> Why does that mean you have to reupload them?
<wgrant> Has the orig.tar.gz changed?
<quentusrex> how do I have them 'retried'?
<quentusrex> yes
<wgrant> Ah.
<quentusrex> I found a problem with where part of the files were located in the orig
<quentusrex> :(
<wgrant> Multi-hundred megabyte orig.tar.gzs that change a lot are not a good idea.
<quentusrex> yeah, I know...
<quentusrex> but I have to get it right the first time...
<quentusrex> :(
<wgrant> Why not testbuild locally?
<quentusrex> because it assumes internet connection.
<quentusrex> and disabling mine doesn't have the same effect as the launchpad servers...
<quentusrex> the build system does checks to other projects for their latest software
<quentusrex> to make sure it has the latest stuff,
<quentusrex> so I have to add checks to see if there is connection, and if there isn't then skip the checks for latest software....
<quentusrex> the previous package lasted over 7 months
<quentusrex> but now I need to have that package updated to 1.0.4
<wgrant> Ah.
<quentusrex> if you are interested in voip, you should really check freeswitch out...
<quentusrex> it isn't so friendly to those who 'just want it to work' because it's focused more to those who want to do interesting things
<quentusrex> it'll give you all the rope you need, but enough people wind up hanging themselves....
<quentusrex> :)
<wgrant> Heh.
<quentusrex> but it is an order of magnitude more efficient than asterisk, and much more powerful.
<quentusrex> but there aren't "slick and easy" gui's for it yet...
 * mwhudson definitely wants telephony to "just work"
<quentusrex> wgrant: yup, basically I'm done for the night...
<quentusrex> I can't upload anything....
<quentusrex> not even a 1MB update...
<quentusrex> :)
* jml changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is now open sourced: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | #launchpad-dev is the developer channel
<idnar> is launchpad down, or is it just my ISP?
<kklimonda> works fine for me
<AnAnt> I filed a bug months ago, and I am no more interested in it, how can I unsubscribe myself ?
<wgrant> AnAnt: Click the 'Unsubscribe' link on it?
<AnAnt> there isn't an 'Unsubscribe' link, rather there is a 'Subscribe' link
<AnAnt> but it appears on my bugs page
<allee-k> I checked my karma (user allee) and I've 113 rosetta points but I'm sure I've never  worked with rosetta.   What's wrong?  Mhmm souz and branches  points 'feel' too high too.  Is karma page borken?
<wgrant> AnAnt: It will appear by default on your bugs page if you have ever commented on it.
<AnAnt> I see
<AnAnt> karma page is generous
<allee-k> AnAnt: that's a point to look at it I can live with :)
<virtuald> is it possible to change the mime type on an attachement? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/431856
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431856 in linux "rv570 KMS: screens turn off when X starts" [Undecided,New]
<lodder> when I push a new revision my name is not clickable on the trunk page, how come?
<Ursinha> lodder: are your commits signed with a key lp recognizes as yours?
<lodder> Ursinha: how do you mean I have 2 ssh keys
<lodder> I have added them launchpad
<Ursinha> lodder: I mean, when you're committing to the branch, are you signing your commits?
<cody-somerville> lodder, did you introduce yourself to bzr with bzr whoami?
<wgrant> LP doesn't use the GPG key, just the 'bzr whoami'.
<lodder> cody-somerville: no
<Ursinha> cody-somerville: would it be enough?
<cody-somerville> yup
<Ursinha> so, cool
<lodder> I have done now with bzr whoami, this is probably for the next commit it will work
 * Ursinha learned one more bit
<Ursinha> :)
<cody-somerville> lodder, what did you pass to whoami?
<lodder> just the name
<cody-somerville> lodder, the e-mail address has to match an e-mail address you have associated with your launchpad account
<lodder> ok
<lodder> then it's going to work the next time
<wgrant> eg. 'bzr whoami "Some Body <somebody@example.com>"
<lodder> ok now it's ok
<lodder> but can you change it from all previous commits or isn't it possible?
<wgrant> I don't believe that's easily possible.
<lodder> wgrant: and the hard way ?
<wgrant> lodder: You'd have to somehow replay all of the commits with a filter. You probably don't want to get into that.
<lodder> no I don't
<lodder> it's then for all the other things then
<lodder> thx for the help
<quentusrex> Is someone around?
<maxb> quentusrex: You should just ask.
<rockstar> maxb, technically, he did ask.  :)
<quentusrex> lol
<maxb> meh
<quentusrex> Well, I'm working with a rather large package. normally ~450 MB with all data and the orig,
<maxb> And why is there not any decent "How to ask questions on IRC" webpage to point people at? :-/
<maxb> ouchy, that's cumbersome
<LarstiQ> maxb: there is
<quentusrex> we have it setup to build separate binaries for each of the parts, the largest are about 35MB
<maxb> LarstiQ: I have failed to google it, then
<quentusrex> is there a way to have it build separate source packages?
<LarstiQ> maxb: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
<LarstiQ> maxb: though "don't ask to ask" might be a bit buried in there
<maxb> No, that's just questions in general, little to no advice on how best to interact on IRC
<LarstiQ> maxb: ok, let me look for that :)
<maxb> quentusrex: Packages don't build source packages. Humans build source packages. Source packages build binary packages. One source package can build multiple binary packages.
<LarstiQ> there is http://www.sabi.co.uk/Notes/linuxHelpAsk.html
<LarstiQ> and http://jeff.jones.be/technology/articles/how-to-ask-for-help-on-irc/
<maxb> nice, /me bookmarks
<quentusrex> I was afraid that was going to be the answer....
<LarstiQ> maxb: I didn't proofread them
<quentusrex> doing orig diff's is nice, but other then that it is 'cumbersome'
<LarstiQ> quentusrex: you can try and get upstream to split it into multiple source packages
<LarstiQ> quentusrex: perhaps by doing the work and the submitting it
<maxb> What's the package? How much is the orig and how much is the diff?
<maxb> Does the orig contain multiple subelements, some of which change more often than others?
<quentusrex> I'm the only packager for it.
<quentusrex> https://edge.launchpad.net/~pbxbuntu-drivers/+archive/ppa/+packages
<quentusrex> it's freeswitch, a telephony software
<quentusrex> and it has CD quality audio that 'never really changes'
<quentusrex> but I haven't been able to find a tutorial or documentation on how to get packages to interact properly... such as upload a source package for the audio, in such a way that the build system can use the audio files.
<quentusrex> the diffs are usually only about 1 MB
<maxb> In a perfect world, you would convince freeswitch to decouple the packaging of their audio collection and their sourcecode
<maxb> If that's not going to happen, you could consider creating two separate source packages both with repacked source tarballs
<maxb> The interaction is simple: One source build-depends on the other, and refers to whatever files it needs in their installed locations.
<maxb> Or, if you are really lucky, and the audio files are only needed at runtime, you don't even need to have a build-time dependency
<quentusrex> hmm, interesting...
<RenatoSilva> Can't recall why lp does not have http(s) push. Because it would be too hard to do and give no big benefit?}
<v0lksman> hey all!
<v0lksman> trying to update Chromium-daily from https://launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa
<v0lksman> the PPA says there is a new package as of 40 minutes ago...but when I update and upgrade it shows no updates...any ideas?
<v0lksman> uh...forget it...I think they are still building
<quentusrex> Anyone know how to take over an abandoned launchpad group?
<quentusrex> if it hasn't been touched in over 2 years,
<RenatoSilva> why doesn't lp have http(s) push? too slow? hard?
<maxb> RenatoSilva: How would you authenticate it?
<maxb> quentusrex: group? team?
<RenatoSilva> maxb: using the site password
<quentusrex> maxb: https://launchpad.net/freeswitch
<maxb> RenatoSilva: I imagine the concern is that it would lead to encouraging people to put the password in an unsafe form on disk
<quentusrex> maxb: It's the project 'FreeSwitch'
<quentusrex> but that guy just signed up a new account, registered it, and never touched it again.
<RenatoSilva> maxb: trying to recall how exactly the ssh auth works. I imagine it sends some private-key-encrypted token to the server, right?
<quentusrex> I've tried contacting him for the last few months, with no effect.
<maxb> quentusrex: If you absolutely can't contact the current owner, I guess you'd need to file a question in the launchpad answers tracker and have a conversation with the admins about forcibly reassigning it.
<quentusrex> ok
<quentusrex> where should that question be posted?
<RenatoSilva> maxb: if so, the same token could be sent as an http request param
<maxb> quentusrex:  I would imagine they would want to know about your prior attempts to contact previous registrant, and your relationship with the upstream project. https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<maxb> RenatoSilva: You're hypothesizing a software infrastructure that doesn't currently exist
<RenatoSilva> maxb: I'm sorry?
<RenatoSilva> maxb: exactly it does not exist, and I'm suggesting to bring it to existence :)
<maxb> Well before Launchpad could use it, it would have to be designed, and implemented in released versions of bzr
<RenatoSilva> maxb: I just think that if it is bzr that will make the http request, then it could securely send that token as parameter (unless ssh auth does not work that way)
<maxb> ssh auth does not work that way
<RenatoSilva> maxb: how then?
<RenatoSilva> maxb: sorry if I annoy you
<maxb> The server sends you a challenge. You sign it with your private key to prove you have your private key. You send the result to the server, which validates this and lets you in
<maxb> This model doesn't translate all that well to HTTP
<RenatoSilva> it's pretty what I said, or I meant :)
<RenatoSilva> maxb: you'd have to bring the challenge mechanism from ssh server itself to bzr server, right
<RenatoSilva> so the whole point is that we don't have http push simply because it is hard to implement and would not have a really good benefit?
<RenatoSilva> I always forget the right name of the patch generated by bzr send, can anyone tell me?
 * maxb suggests "bzr help send"
<RenatoSilva> oh merge-directive! sorry, and thanks
<maxb> RenatoSilva: Not only would you have to devise a way to securely map publickey auth into an HTTP protocol, you would also have to give the bzr client the capability to securely access the requisite private keys.... and the most obvious way of doing so would be to have it talk to an ssh-agent :-)
<maxb> So basically you end up doing a lot of work to send things over a less featureful protocol
<maxb> So it's really of interest only to people who are behind paranoid firewalls, AFAICS
<RenatoSilva> maxb: well it would be the same way, talking to an ssh-agent
<maxb> Indeed. So why not just use ssh :-)
<RenatoSilva> maxb: hum but in bzr+ssh does not get access to the priv key, right? it's the ssh-agent that does the auth
<maxb> so...?
<RenatoSilva> *in bzr+ssh, bzr
<RenatoSilva> maxb: so for https push you'd have to make ssh-agent send the auth data over http, which is not possible, or make bzr get access to the private key, which I don't know if it is possible too
<RenatoSilva> I don't know if you can ask pageant or so "hey what's the key you have there?"
<maxb> You can't, that's the point.
<maxb> But that still doesn't answer the question: Why bother to try to use http at all
<RenatoSilva> so bzr would need load the file and decrypt the key manually
<RenatoSilva> maxb: here at work ssh is blocked
<geser> bigjools: is http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31971041/upload_1220587_log.txt also caused by bug 408528?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 408528 in soyuz "Packages build but fail to upload due to email address issue" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408528
 * bigjools checking
<bigjools> geser: yes :/  but I thought the fix had been cherry picked
<geser> this was from cjwatson's archive test rebuild, don't know if the fix is used there too already
<bigjools> I thought it was picked everywhere
<geser> when I look at the upload failures on http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html all see to be caused by this bug
<bigjools> :(
<quentusrex> Anyone know a good way to disable internet connections to simulate an enviroment like launchpad build servers?
<exarkun> ifconfig eth0 down
<quentusrex> but that would break my ssh connection... :(
<quentusrex> but that'll be a decent fallback...
<bigjools> iptables
<geser> quentusrex: as in most cases the internet is used to download something you could reject all HTTP and FTP traffic
<quentusrex> and if I have the source package like I would upload to launchpad, is there a quick command to try to build that locally?
<geser> pbuilder is a good tool for it
<geser> is the clock for the PPA buildd really that unstable? 27 Oct 08:08:53 ntpdate[3321]: step time server 10.211.37.1 offset -3526111.553879 sec
<wgrant> geser: They are Xen virtual machines that are restored from an ancient image for every build. It wouldn't surprise me.
<quentusrex> wgrant: is there a way to 'purge' a ppa?
<quentusrex> I want to purge all history and start things over clean
<wgrant> quentusrex: No. Why?
<wgrant> You could get it disabled and renamed, but why?
<quentusrex> due to some naming mistakes I'd like to have them removed.
<quentusrex> so that I can start the naming correctly from 'the beginning'
<wgrant> You can never upload the same version again, but once you delete them you should be able to upload an older version.
<wgrant> And that's much qucker than waiting for an admin to do the disabling.
<quentusrex> hmm
#launchpad 2009-09-19
<quentusrex> but I already have a freeswitch-1.0.4-0ubuntu.... file.. from a while back
<wgrant> Ah, right.
<wgrant> Are you upstream?
<quentusrex> what do you mean upstream?
<quentusrex> I finally built the orig properly...
<wgrant> Why are you building the orig at all? Didn't the freeswitch project release a tarball?
<quentusrex> wgrant: nope
<quentusrex> they have everyone pull from the svn repo
<quentusrex> but they don't include the sound files in the repo, the build system downloads them on demand.
<wgrant> quentusrex: Ew ew ew.
<quentusrex> which won't work from launchpad... So I have to make changes...
<quentusrex> yeah, it isn't 'neat' or 'clean'
<quentusrex> but I'm trying to make it work
<quentusrex> and I've found interest in the ubuntu/debian community.
<irvingpop> Howdy
<irvingpop> I need help creating a PPA for a program that has never been packaged before for Debian/Ubuntu.  Is this the right place?
<wgrant> irvingpop: For creating and uploading to a PPA, sure. For creating the actual package (most of the work), #ubuntu-motu is a better place.
<irvingpop> Ah, I should probably start there.  probably a bit more work than my "checkinstall" strategy
<wgrant> Oh yes.
<wgrant> checkinstall builds... slightly suboptimal packages.
<irvingpop> Gotcha.   Thanks for your help.   I'll be back when I have some packaging infrastructure in place :)
<shadowh511> hey, I got an odd issue when I tried to file a bug today
<shadowh511> launchpad is down
<wgrant> shadowh511: Did you get a timeout with an OOPS code?
<wgrant> Or a 'Please try again', or something else?
<quentusrex> wgrant: I know you said it'd take a while for stuff to get deleted, but I didn't think it'd take over 24 hours
<wgrant> quentusrex: Superseded packages take 24 hours. Manually deleted should take less than an hour.
<quentusrex_> hmm
<quentusrex> wgrant: I've got an issue...
<wgrant> quentusrex: What is it?
<quentusrex> I'm trying to figure out how to break the sound files out into separate packages,
<quentusrex> but how do I copy them in to the build process during the freeswitch build/install?
<wgrant> Why do you need to?
<wgrant> I was thinking that the freeswitch-data source package would just build freeswitch-data-low, freeswitch-data-hd, etc. binaries.
<wgrant> The freeswitch source package itself wouldn't know about them at all.
<wgrant> The end user would just install freeswitch and the required data packages.
<quentusrex> hmm
<quentusrex> sec
<quentusrex> how do I, in the build process of the software, know if it's being build by a package, or being build from an svn checkout?
<wgrant> quentusrex: You could pass an argument in from debian/rules.
<quentusrex> is there an example of that?
<quentusrex> just 'export FREESWITCHSOUNDS=1'
<quentusrex> and in the build file, which is a bash script, 'if[$FREESWITCHSOUNDS] then exit 0'
<quentusrex> ?
<quentusrex> basically?
<quentusrex> Anyone know if this is a valid package name: freeswitch-sounds-music-1.0.8 ???
<wgrant> quentusrex: That's valid, but why?
<wgrant> That 1.0.8 looks like a version number to me.
<quentusrex> it is a version number
<quentusrex> the package name is freeswitch-sounds-music
<quentusrex> and 1.0.8 is the version
<wgrant> Why is it in the package name, then?
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> That's fine, then.
<quentusrex> awesome thanks
<quentusrex> this is actually really falling into place very well
<wgrant> Very good.
<quentusrex> using the default depends, and using |
<quentusrex> to specify different packages...
<wgrant> Yep.
<quentusrex> if you specify just 'apt-get install freeswitch' you'll get everything, but in a bandwidth efficient manner.
<quentusrex> it'll downsample all the sounds locally on your box.
<quentusrex> but if you know what you're doing and have a local cache you can do: apt-get install freeswitch freeswitch-sounds-heavy
<quentusrex> that'll download all the sounds in each package, and not downsample them locally, but download each individual package,
<quentusrex> or
<quentusrex> if you know you won't need anything above 8k (old telephone and cell phone rate)
<quentusrex> then you can do: apt-get install freeswitch freeswitch-sounds-en-us-8000
<wgrant> That sounds like it should work pretty well.
<quentusrex> language selection before rate
<quentusrex> so just freeswitch-sounds-en-us would download all of the rates...
<quentusrex> and freeswitch-sounds would download all of the languages
<quentusrex> but it would default to en-us for people downloading...
<quentusrex> it'd be us-en centric, but I can't think of a better way to have the defaults be reasonable....
<quentusrex> because as I was talking to other developers,
<quentusrex> it would be reasonable to conclude that there will be many GB's of sound files in the near future...
<quentusrex> more languages, and more voices per language...
<quentusrex> wgrant: is there a packaging policy on choosing a default language or set of default sound files?
<wgrant> quentusrex: There is not.
<quentusrex> ok
<quentusrex> wgrant: what's the proper packaging method to copy files to /opt/freeswitch/sounds/en/us/
<quentusrex> ?
<quentusrex> I know about the *.install folder
<wgrant> quentusrex: You shouldn't be putting things in /opt.
<wgrant> Packages are not allowed to.
<quentusrex> and how I should put the line: opt/freeswitch.sounds/en/us/*
<quentusrex> wgrant: yes, I'm aware... it's on the list of things to fix. but that's where freeswitch assumes it will be placed... :(
<wgrant> quentusrex: Ew.
<wgrant> Anyway, it depends how you've set things up.
<wgrant> #ubuntu-motu will probably be more help.
<quentusrex> ok
<quentusrex> the basic debian/rules should just be 'cp ./sounds /opt/freeswitch/sounds/en/us/ '
<mrooney> Out of curiosity, how often is edge.lp deployed to?
<wgrant> mrooney: Daily, unless something goes wrong.
<mrooney> ah okay, but not more often?
<wgrant> And it normally doesn't update for a few days after each release.
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> Once a day.
<mrooney> ah okay, thanks :)
<quentusrex> how many people 'work for' launchpad?
<quentusrex> I'm aware that it 'belongs' to canonical...
<wgrant> I see ~33 members in ~launchpad that I know to work primarily on Launchpad.
<lifeless> do you mean 'how many people are paid by canonical to develop launchpad'?
<quentusrex> lifeless: sure
<lifeless> ~30 as wgrant says
<quentusrex> cool
<quentusrex> that's more than I thought...
<quentusrex> hmm... that's gotta be expensive....
<quentusrex> How does canonical offset or recover some of the costs from launchpad/
<quentusrex> ?
<mrooney> well, they do offer private hosting in exchange for dollars
<mrooney> though I have no idea how popular that is
<quentusrex> hmm...
<wers> i'm just wondering. why doesnt answers.launchpad.net let the user ask a question immediately? The only easy thing to do is to search questions about a package
<wers> is this to encourage users to search for an answer first?
<quentusrex> wers: I would assume that is the reason...
<mrooney> wers: I see an "Ask a question" button, on Edge anyway
<mrooney> on the right
<quentusrex> too many people are too quick to ask their question, before checking to see if that question is answered already...
<wgrant> wers: You mean exactly https://answers.launchpad.net/?
<lifeless> wers: 'answers.launchpad.net
<lifeless> wers: 'answers.launchpad.net' is the home page for /all the projects' - questions below to a single project
<wgrant> Right.
<wers> however, if that is so, the results page of the search still doesnt have an "ask a question button"
<wers> wgrant, and lifeless yep
<lifeless> I think it would be reasonable to have an ask a question button there, but it would need to guide you to find the project to ask on
<wgrant> It's difficult, confusing and error-prone to have a global 'Ask a question' button.
<wgrant> But that page could probably direct you to the project.
<lifeless> wgrant: I don't think its that hard :)
<lifeless> wgrant: even some prose saying 'this is answers, you need to select a project to ask a question...'
<wgrant> lifeless: That's what I suggested.
<lifeless> wgrant: cool
<lifeless> wgrant: and now you can do it! :)
<wgrant> lifeless: There's a redesign of that page pending. Not sure by whom.
<wers> imho, the best way would be easily letting the user search for answers then in the search page "Didn't find the answer you're looking for? Ask here"
<wgrant> wers: How did you get to that page?
<wers> something like the one in answers.yahoo.com
<wgrant> The best solution is to have people avoid that page altogether.
<wers> wgrant, i used the help menu of gui apps
<wgrant> Nobody should need to go to an app home.
<wers> i was going to ask about conky, which didnt have gui, though
<wers> since i want to ask a question about conky, the first thing that came to my mind was opening answers.yahoo.com
<wgrant> wers: Ah.
<wgrant> The menu item does take you to the right place.
<wers> wgrant, yep but it lead me there after some clicking
<wgrant> Why were clicks required?
<wers> wgrant, ah no. i just meant, after clicking some links :)
<wers> sorry i was vague
<wgrant> You should just have to click Help -> Get help online, then 'Ask a question'
<wers> wgrant, yeah. i did that on pidgin to know the right url because i was going to ask for conky
<wgrant> Ah.
<wers> yeah. so that's the usability issue. the first thing that came to my mind was going to https://answers.launchpad.net/ then searched for conky
<wers> the search page didnt give me the answer i need so i wanted to ask but there's no ask option
<wgrant> Right, you need to get the project or package page first.
<wgrant> Let's think of the best way to do that.
<wers> nice :)
<wers> ooh. apparently, there's an ask a question button here https://answers.launchpad.net/conky/+questions?field.search_text=conky&field.actions.search=Find+Answers&field.scope=project&field.scope.target=conky&field.sort=RELEVANCY&field.status%3Alist=OPEN&field.status%3Alist=SOLVED&field.status%3Alist=ANSWERED&field.status%3Alist=NEEDSINFO
<wers> oops sorry. long link
<wgrant> That's probably not the right place, though.
<wgrant> That's conky upstream. You probably want conky in Ubuntu.
<wgrant> Which is https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/conky
<wers> but there's none here https://answers.launchpad.net/conky/+questions?field.search_text=conky&field.actions.search=Find+Answers&field.scope=project&field.scope.target=conky&field.sort=RELEVANCY&field.status%3Alist=OPEN&field.status%3Alist=SOLVED&field.status%3Alist=ANSWERED&field.status%3Alist=NEEDSINFO
<wers> wgrant, yep. and i wont find a way to go there if i had no idea about launchpad
<wgrant> Those two links look identical.
<wers> oops. wait
<wers> i meant, the results page of Questions matching "conky"
<wgrant> That's right.
<wers> the previous link is Questions matching "conky" for Conky
<wgrant> Yep.
<wers> and i gotta tell you now... i'm totally confused. haha
<wers> i dont know what the diff is between the two pages
<wgrant> One is a search across all of Launchpad. It doesn't know you're talking about a project.
<wgrant> One is within the conky project on Launchpad. It knows where to put your question, so it shows you a link.
<wers> oh okay. the first search box just has a "Find Answers" button beside it while the 2nd has two radio buttons. i wouldnt know the diff without explanation
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> I see.
<wgrant> So you got there from the same textbox.
<wgrant> Well.
<wers> ooh. now i get it. apparently, i can have a more specific search by entering text in the two text boxes
<wers> i guess, it would help if the first text box has this message beside it "Question Keywords" and beside the 2nd text box "Project Involved"
<mrooney> so, if I have a source package I want to upload to a PPA, and want it to build for Intrepid -> Karmic, what is the best way? Three dputs, changing the target each time? Copying source forward in LP?
<wgrant> mrooney: Copy source and binaries forward if that will work.
<wgrant> mrooney: But otherwse three dputs.
<mrooney> I guess it was half a technical question, is there a difference and how do I know if copying source forward would be different / cause issues?
<wgrant> mrooney: The main problem with copying forward is if ABIs have changed incompatibly -- ie. the SONAME has changed.
<wgrant> You would need to test the package on the newer series to work out if the same build works.
<mrooney> I could see that for a binary copy, but a source copy would be the same changing the target of the same source to that and dput'ing right?
<wgrant> Ah. I am talking about a binary copy here. You cannot do source-only copies within an archive.
<quentusrex> wgrant: what do you think is a good word for a virtual package that would download all packages below it?
<quentusrex> full? complete?
<quentusrex> thick? heavy? fat?
<wgrant> quentusrex: Virtual packages don't work like that.
<LarstiQ> omega
<wgrant> Or do you mean a metapackage?
<quentusrex> metapackage probably...
<quentusrex> it would be empty except that it would require all of the other packages...
<quentusrex> omega....
<quentusrex> I like that....
<wgrant> That's a metapackage.
<maxb> Metapackages tend to be named for the role they play - e.g. ubuntu-standard, libfoo-dev
<quentusrex> maxb: I need a metapackage that will play the role of downloading all of the possible sound files for a given language.
<quentusrex> for a telephony package....
<LarstiQ> right, the one discussed yesterday
<quentusrex> yes, I think so...
<quentusrex> that currently has an orig of ~400MB... :(
<maxb> Why are the sound files for one language split over multiple packages? Give us an example of how they are divided.
<quentusrex> the sounds are divided by 2 layers.
<quentusrex> language,
<quentusrex> and quality
<maxb> Would anyone actually want both high and low quality installed?
<quentusrex> the lowest level is: freeswitch-sounds-en-us-8000, freeswitch-sounds-en-us-16000, ...32000, ...48000
<quentusrex> maxb: yes. most people would want that...
<quentusrex> but many would only want 8000, or 8000+16000
<quentusrex> this way you don't have to download but one of them, but it is still a reasonable option to download them all...
<quentusrex> it is very processor intensive to transcode sound files live for a phone call...
<quentusrex> so the software can detect the call quality of the call, and play the sound file that is already at that quality.
<quentusrex> to reduce the load on the machine...
<quentusrex> I'm also building a package that will download the 48000 package, and on the end box during install it will transcode all the lower qualities...
<maxb> OK, well obviously you could create metapackages for every possible combination that users might want, but that would get silly quite quickly, so you have to judge which combinations are common enough to justify building a metapackage
<quentusrex> right
<quentusrex> which is what I feel we have done...
<quentusrex> oh,
<quentusrex> oops
<quentusrex> I take it back
<quentusrex> there are 3 levels
<quentusrex> language/voice/quality.
<quentusrex> so for each language there will probably be many different voices...
<LarstiQ> transcoding on installation seems a better choice to me?
<quentusrex> LarstiQ: it is a better choice for most
<quentusrex> but for me I use many virtual servers, and have a local package cache
<maxb> Probably, though not shipping data that upstream does could be an unpopular act
<quentusrex> so I'd rather download the full set to install and provision more quickly.
<quentusrex> 48M+33M+17M+8.4M
<quentusrex> ~106.4M per voice... for all quality levels for all prompts...
<quentusrex> plus,
<quentusrex> I can think of enough people who know they'll only deal with 8k audio, and who know which language and voice they want,
<quentusrex> so I'm trying to minimize how much they need to download...
<maxb> Well, they can install them directly
<quentusrex> maxb: yes, they can do that too...
<maxb> apt-get install freeswitch-sounds-mylang-myvoice-8000
<quentusrex> right
<quentusrex> that's all they would need...
<quentusrex> but I'm still trying to figure out the 'proper' way to package all of these things...
<quentusrex> the way that will work out best in the end...
<maxb> Well there's two ways you could go. Create a ridiculous number of metapackages, or create a select few and let anyone else pick packages explicitly
<quentusrex> well, I'm taking a middle ground.
<quentusrex> create each individual package,
<quentusrex> and a reasonable default metapackage, which if you don't specify, will download the most common setup...
<quentusrex> and also the most bandwidth optimized packages.
<quentusrex> if you do: apt-get install freeswitch-sounds-en-us-callie
<quentusrex> you'll get a package that downloads the 48k and transcodes the others on your box.
<quentusrex> if you do: apt-get install freeswitch-sounds-en-us
<quentusrex> you'll only get the one or few more popular voices, and it'll download the 48k's and transcode on your box
<quentusrex> trying to step up the ladder with the most reasonable defaults... from quality to voice to language...
<quentusrex> right now I'm trying to get more info on the recommended techniques for certain actions
<lifeless> is poppy dead?
<lifeless> wgrant: ^
<lifeless> (Seeking confirmation before escalating)
<wgrant> lifeless: It is.
<wgrant> On germanium, but not cocoplum.
<wgrant> I presume you can use either, but escalate away!
<quentusrex> poppy?
<wgrant> quentusrex: The PPA upload FTP server.
<quentusrex> aah
<lifeless> wgrant: well, ppa.launchpad.net is refusing FTP; I don't know if any can be used.
<lifeless> spm: on the offchance you're around, ^
<lifeless> spm: I'll escalate in a bit otherwise
<quentusrex> alright, I've asked in #debian, #ubuntu, and #ubuntu-motu.... what's a good way to have a package just copy files from the package to a directory on the hard disk?
<LarstiQ> quentusrex: ehm, dh_install?
<quentusrex> is there an example of dh_install coping files to a directory?
<LarstiQ> quentusrex: almost every debian package
<LarstiQ> quentusrex: have a look at the manpage
<quentusrex> alright, LarstiQ so if I build the package with the files in debian/tmp/etc/freeswitch/sounds/*.wav
<quentusrex> then I put in the freeswitch.install file: etc/freeswitch/sounds/*
<quentusrex> it'll automatically copy all the files from debian/tmp/etc/freeswitch/sounds/* into /etc/freeswitch/sounds/* ?
<Phurl> hi there
<Phurl> anyone can help me with these polls? the activation time always says it is wrong
<LarstiQ> quentusrex: yes. Apart from the workings of dh_install, /etc/freeswitch/sounds/* is not a good location for sound files
<wgrant> Phurl: Polls are a bit unloved, yes... you mean you can't work out the date format that it wants?
<Phurl> yes
<Phurl> i just cannot get any poll created
<LarstiQ> quentusrex: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ for that
<Phurl> like if i want to create a poll that starts now
 * LarstiQ gets back to studying
<Phurl> and runs for 1 week
<Phurl> what do i enter?
<wgrant> Phurl: Let me try.
<Phurl> thanks
<wgrant> Phurl: I think it is trying very hard to make as little sense as possible. I'm digging in the code.
<Phurl> hahah
<Phurl> wgrant, if you can just change it to have sensible defaults...
<wgrant> Phurl: OK, I was right. It is trying to be completely unsensible.
<Phurl> hahah
<Phurl> nice
<wgrant> Phurl: It seems that by default it interprets the date as being the server's timezone.
<wgrant> I've never seen this on another Launchpad form.
<Phurl> ok. so the timezone is ZA?
<wgrant> So, enter a date like '2009-09-19 19:13:20+10:00', where +10:00 is your UTC offset.
<Phurl> hold
<Phurl> 2009-09-19 11:13:58+02:00
<Phurl> date --rfc-3 "s"
<wgrant> Yep.
<Phurl> ok hold
<Phurl> cause i tried that at one point
<Phurl> let me try again
<Phurl> do i need both fields?
<wgrant> It looks like the LP servers are in BST, and for some reason my local Launchpad is running in UTC-5 (PST?)
<wgrant> Yes.
<wgrant> The first one must be at least 12 hours in the future.
<Phurl> ahh
<wgrant> This is a restriction that I do not like.
<Phurl> nice
<Phurl> well i did not know
<wgrant> It will tell you.
<wgrant> Somebody needs to take care of polls; they haven't been fixed significantly in many years.
<Phurl> yeah!
<Phurl> it works
<Phurl> wgrant, give me a link to the source code
<Phurl> i can look at it
<Phurl> and post a patch
<wgrant> Phurl: See the first link in the topic.
<Phurl> yes
<Phurl> but the path
<Phurl> ok
<Phurl> i will have to dig into it...
<Phurl> :)
<wgrant> Well, there are a few.
<wgrant> But lib/lp/registry/browser/poll.py and lib/lp/registry/templates/team-newpoll.pt are the main files.
<Phurl> https://launchpad.net/~kosova/+poll/launchpadpolls
<Phurl> thanks
<Phurl> ok
<wgrant> Phurl: You should probably use staging.launchpad.net for tests like that.
<Phurl> wgrant, i put it on my todo when bored list
<Phurl> thanks
<Phurl> wgrant, my test is real
<Phurl> for our group
<Phurl> like i wanted to create a poll
<Phurl> and ask them if we should use launchpad for polling :)
<wgrant> Ah.
<wgrant> Slightly recursive!
<Phurl> always
<Phurl> the fractal nature of reality
<Phurl> http://flossk.tuxfamily.org/survey/limesurvey/index.php?sid=54225&lang=en
<Phurl> we are using limesurvey
<Phurl> it is nice
<Phurl> #followfreedom @firelinks @pythonstuff @merlyn @ttcs @timoreilly @0pensource @geent1 @h4ck3rm1k3 @wickedboy_007 @vidyaratha @jonobacon @developerworks Happy SFD!!
<diwic> Hello, I want to make a merge proposal for my branch, but there is no link for making a merge on my branch...?
<wgrant> diwic: Your branch is in a project, not +junk?
<diwic> wgrant: it is in +junk
<wgrant> diwic: +junk branches cannot have merge proposals.
<diwic> wgrant: Thanks. Suggest that it is added somewhere on https://help.launchpad.net/Code/UploadingABranch or possibly https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review
<wgrant> diwic: It's on the page about +junk branches.
<diwic> it is not obvious
<maxb> Is there any logic behind disallowing it?
<maxb> Or is it just a way of forcing people into not being lazy about registering projects?
<wgrant> maxb: If you have multiple related branches, you probably want a project.
<wgrant> I suspect that's it.
<maxb> I guess that's fair. If you have branches spread between different people, you rather by definition have a project
<wgrant> Right.
<diwic> thanks for being helpful :-)
<diwic> In addition, if I am on my "code page" and choose "register a branch", it would be nice if you could specify a project instead of them automatically going into +junk
<wgrant> Probably, but you're not really meant to use that link.
<wgrant> You normally just push the branch, and it is created automatically.
<diwic> okay.
<dhalsimm> hi, I want to mirror my subversion host to launchpad, is it possible to do things automatically? for example I committed a change to my subversion host, is it possible to reflect it to launchpad also. or should I make a copy of my svn and make bazaar branch then upload it to launchpad, and vice versa... ?
<diwic> If I want to improve an apport hook, how do I test it without filing real bugs in Launchpad?
<henninge> diwic: couldn't you report to staging.launchpad.net?
 * henninge knows nothing about apport, though
<diwic> henninge: ah, that's the name of the testing environment. Possibly, but then I have to reconfigure apport somehow to send reports there instead.
<henninge> diwic: yes, staging's database is overwritten regularly (daily?) with the current production database. So you can mess with it as much as you want.
<RenatoSilva> Is it possible to directly push a merge directive to launchpad? I mean, instead of pulling from it, then pushing the branch, you'd push the patch, and then pull the changes
<mrooney> Is keyserver.ubuntu.com having issues? I can't seem to do anything useful with it like get keys
<mrooney> maybe it is just very slow
<ripps> Is it possible to create a passwordless subkeys for my gpg key so I can automatically sign packages with my ppa-bot?
<quentusrex> ripps: I believe it is
<quentusrex> create the gpg keys,
<quentusrex> then remove the password.
<ripps> I already have a gpg key, but it keeps requiring a passphrase, I want to be able to sign my packages without using the passphrase
<quentusrex> ripps, google 'remove password from gpg key'
<quentusrex> but ripps, do you really want to have a password less gpg key?
<quentusrex> it removes almost all the security of pgp
<quentusrex> if your box is cracked.
<quentusrex> ripps: most places you'll find in your search will have a password protected gpg key,
<quentusrex> but it'll pipe the password in, or it'll store it in an enviroment variable.
<ripps> quentusrex: how am I suppose to automate the ppabot if it keeps bugging me for a password?
<quentusrex> no idea...
<ripps> the key is for only signing ppa packages, not for my identity, and If I ever find it's comprimised, can't I just revoke it?
<ripps> there I created a new key without a password, this key is to be used only for ppas, it even says so in the comment
<quentusrex> nice.
<quentusrex> that works then.
<ripps> what's with all the disabled i386 ppa builders?
<meoblast001> hi
<meoblast001> has Canonical been having some connection issues, Launchpad seems to be a little slow lately
#launchpad 2009-09-20
<lifeless> wow, i386 backlog :(
<wgrant> lifeless: Network issues look to have killed most of the buildds.
<wgrant> Somebody just needs to hit the checkbox...
<wgrant> lifeless: Also note that most of those builds are scored at -10, as they're part of the archive rebuild.
<wgrant> So normal PPA builds will be way in front of the other 7000.
<lifeless> wgrant: I just uploaded a subunit update; its slated for 1 hour - which is why I made my comment
<lifeless> are you talking about nannyberry etc?
<wgrant> lifeless: Yeah.
<wgrant> Ah, so you're not talking about the *really* big backlog.
<lifeless> time to start  pinging arbitrary folk in that team :)
<lifeless> https://edge.launchpad.net/builders/ says there isn't a i386 distro rebuild in progress :P
<lifeless> unless its being done deliberately on ppa builders?
<wgrant> lifeless: Rebuilds are done on the virtual builders.
<lifeless> interesting
<lifeless> I wish I could click into the queue to browse
<wgrant> There are often 10 times more virtual buildds. If rebuilds happened on the non-virtual buildds, it would take just three long-running builds to block Ubuntu i386 builds for a day.
<wgrant> lifeless: most of the queue is in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20090909.
<lifeless> nice hack, separate archive ;)
<lifeless> does it get binary copied back afterwards?
<wgrant> I wouldn't really call that a hack.
<wgrant> The binaries can't be copied back; the versions would conflict.
<lifeless> so its simply a test
<wgrant> Now, the other uses of archives, those are hacks.
<wgrant> Right.
<lifeless> hacks are clever solutions
<wgrant> I have a script which digests the build data from that archive into a rather more useful form: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20090909.html
<lifeless> cool
<lifeless> so by queue, I mean on /builders
<wgrant> Right. I filed a bug for that about two years ago.
<wgrant> I'm not quite sure how it would work.
<lifeless> well there is a number coming from some list
<lifeless> show the list?
<wgrant> I guess there is now a nice table that can be linkified, so the UI is easier.
<wgrant> Let's see how hard that is to implement...
<lifeless> wgrant: is there a bug on auto recovery of virtual builders
<lifeless> from no route etc errors?
<wgrant> lifeless: There was a bug a while ago from elmo complaining that the builddmaster expected to live in the ivory tower of perfect networks...
<wgrant> lifeless: It's at the moment quite deliberate that they're killed permanently. But there are feature requests asking for it to retry.
<lifeless> huh
<wgrant> This is a different issue from the common no route to host one, though
<wgrant> In this case the builder was contactable, but sent back a BUILDERFAIL when it couldn't talk to the librarian.
<lifeless> I wish https://edge.launchpad.net/~mono-testing/+archive/ppa/+build/1049994 showed the score when it started
<wgrant> The builddmaster cannot know in the current protocol whether the failure is transient.
<wgrant> lifeless: Why?
<lifeless> wgrant: a proxy for queue depth
<wgrant> lifeless: PPA build scores are very very boring.
<lifeless> nevertheless
<lifeless> I wonder if we should start getting arch indep binaries from the amd64 builders
<wgrant> lifeless: Probably not. There is a better solution.
<lifeless> don't tease me like that
<wgrant> lifeless: Pool the i386/amd64/lpia virt/non-virt builders.
<lifeless> wgrant: I'm not quite sure what you mean by that; unless you mean 'get the arch indep binaries from the first build that completes'
<wgrant> lifeless: At the moment, the i386 queue is overloaded because there are fewer builders and more builds on i386.
<lifeless> so right now, I'm spinning on the i386 builders to be able to test subunit 0.0.2 on amd64
<wgrant> lifeless: Now, the i386/amd64/lpia are the same architecture.
<wgrant> lifeless: So there's no reason they can't build all three archs.
<wgrant> If they are stuck into a multi-arch pool with an intelligent queue algorithm, the i386 overloading goes away.
<lifeless> I think you'd make your point more clearly if you said 'we should dynamically provision VM's [within the hardware capacity] to meet the build queue needs
<wgrant> That's not quite it.
<lifeless> so, AIUI the vm's are not the same arch; the hardware is and can run all the vm's
<lifeless> and each vm uses a chroot to build a package
<lifeless> last time I recall this part of the system being discussed there were serious concerns about changing what builds do if you do a cross arch build in a chroot [rather than in a vm]
<lifeless> and yes such packages are arguably buggy
<wgrant> Bug #285207
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285207 in soyuz "Pooling of buildds between distro and PPA" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285207
<wgrant> Bug #285206
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285206 in soyuz "builddmaster needs to be able to deal with "random arch" buildds" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285206
<wgrant> Lots of the lpia buildds were running amd64 VMs. I'm not sure about now, though.
<lifeless> thanks
<wgrant> The only difficult part of fixing those is the scoring algorithm./
<wgrant> lifeless: I see somebody revived the builders ten minutes ago.
<lifeless> wgrant: cool
<lifeless> wgrant: whats current 'best way to do it' for buildings stuff on hardy + intrepid + jaunty + karmic?
<wgrant> lifeless: Hope you can copy forward.
<lifeless> source only copies?
<wgrant> Not supported.
<wgrant> You have to copy with binaries.
<lifeless> k
<lifeless> otherwise add the suite to the version?
<wgrant> If a forward binary copy won't work for that package, you'll have to script multiple uploads like ~hardy1, ~intrepid1, etc.
<wgrant> I'm not sure if AutoPPA still exists, but it used to automate it.
<lifeless> yah
<lifeless> it does
<lifeless> I nagged jkakar today about that :)
<jkakar> Nagging can be effective--though, don't tell my wife I said that. ;)  I just uploaded a test build of AutoPPA 0.0.6 to my PPA... once the build completes and I test it, I'll upload packages to the official PPA.
<lifeless> \o/
<lifeless> jkakar: have you considered getting it into Debian?
<jkakar> lifeless: I've thought of it, but haven't actually done anything about it.
<lifeless> jkakar: you really should :)
<lifeless> if its in debian, its in ubuntu
<lifeless> and the first place /everyone/ using Ubuntu looks for software is synaptic
<alkisg> Is keyserver.ubuntu.com down?
<happyaron> danilos, You have reach your quota for direct contact of other Launchpad users. You can try again in 19 hours , what's this for?
<lifeless> spammers
<happyaron> lifeless, spammer?
<wgrant> happyaron: If there was no limit, a spammer could create a Launchpad account and quickly use Launchpad as a sort of mail relay to spam a million peopl.
<happyaron> wgrant, oh
<happyaron> wgrant, I am contacting some of my team member who didn't provide public address, but soon I get that
<quentusrex> wgrant: would you mind taking a look at a debian/rules line of code?
<quentusrex> find $$SBDIR/$$I/48000 -name \*.wav -exec sox {} -r $$RATE $$SBDIR/$$I/$$RATE/`basename {}` \; ; \
<quentusrex> the `basename {}` isn't working...
<quentusrex> it isn't stripping the directories off the front of the files found by find.
<wgrant> quentusrex: What's it doing insteaD?
<quentusrex> where the `basename {}` should be returning just "stuff.wav"
<ojwb> well, the `` will be run "up front"
<ojwb> not when the -exec is run
<quentusrex> it's returning: "this/dir/and/that/dir/stuff.wav"
<ojwb> sso it's `basename {}` -> {}
<quentusrex> aah
<quentusrex> is there a way to 'fix' it?
<ojwb> I'd probably do: for f in `find .... -name \*.wav` ; do sox $f ....`basename $f` ; done
<quentusrex> is there a way to tell the script to wait for background tasks to finish?
<pmjdebruijn> lo
<pmjdebruijn> is it possible to access historical versions of a PPA?
<pmjdebruijn> to downgrade?
<AskHL_> Hi, I would like to make a debian package, something that might go into a Personal Package Archive or something.  I can manage to create a package by hand by following a guide, but it's sort of tricky procedure with many steps, at least one of which I'll probably forget at some point (like getting the version numbers right everywhere).  How do normal people cope with this?  I'm thinking along the lines of making a big old shellscript
<AskHL_> As it happens, I'm following the Ubuntu Python packaging guide, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python
<pmjdebruijn> AskHL_: packaging can't easily be automated
<pmjdebruijn> AskHL_: if that were easy, we wouldn't really need a lot of package maintainers
<wattazoum> hi
<MFen> is there an api to check whether a ppa source has finished building?
<MFen> or better yet block until it does?
<quentusrex> MFen: why?
<MFen> quentusrex: i'm trying to automate my release process (https://bugs.launchpad.net/hypy/+bug/333532)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 333532 in hypy "Automate steps 4-5 of the release process" [Medium,Confirmed]
<MFen> step 4 is "wait for confirmation that the build finished" and step 5 is "copy packages to another dist"
<MFen> i know there's an api for 5
<MFen> pretty sure that's syncSource
<MFen> basically my build process is a makefile that prompts before it does irreversible things. so I *could* just have the prompt say "visit http://xx to watch the build process, then press enter when the package has finished building", then call syncSource
<MFen> but that seems silly since i'd already be there at the website
<MFen> i'd rather have it just check once a minute or so until the builds are done, then announce success
<maxb> MFen: So, use the API to poll the contents of the PPA, I guess
<MFen> yeah. but i don't know which api to use :)
<MFen> i've never done anything with this api before
<maxb> that's what the apidoc's for :-)
<MFen> is there better doc that https://staging.launchpad.net/+apidoc/ ?
<MFen> it's not clear what i'm supposed to do from reading that
<MFen> i see a few different apis that could be it, and not much information about how to construct the requests
<james_w> MFen: poll getPublishedBinaries I think
<maxb> Don't worry about constructing the requests, just use launchpadlib
<MFen> yeah, not much info about that either
<MFen> getPublishedBinaries sounds like a good one, ok
<MFen> nm i googled it, i think i can take it from here. thanks :)
<james_w> that's not checking the builds though
<james_w> so it won't be able to detect failed builds
<MFen> well, i *would* like to know if a build fails
<MFen> so i can bail out early. otherwise i'll have to time out
<james_w> getBuildRecords
<james_w> getBuildSummariesForSourceIds
<james_w> they might be of use
<MFen> thanks
<jkakar> A new AutoPPA release is available at https://launchpad.net/autoppa!
<jkakar> lifeless: ^^ :)
<virtuald> launchpad thanks me twice for my commend and it doesn't show up immediately but it's there when i reload the page after a few seconds
<virtuald> comment*
<virtuald> hmm now it doesn show up just because i said that
<virtuald> shift-reload and it's there..
<virtuald> bah. probably firefox extensions trouble.
<alasdair> is keyserver.ubuntu.com service down? I can ping the url but I can't seem to send my key
<CarlFK> is there a way to upload source to my PPA and have it built against more than one release?
<CarlFK> like jaunty, intrepid, karmic
<beuno> CarlFK, not at the moment
<CarlFK> thanks.  I'll stop trying to figure out how :)
<geser> CarlFK: you need to do a upload for each Ubuntu release you want your package build (with different versions, e.g. by appending jaunty, intrepid or karmic to the version)
<avar> Where can I find where the commit referenced as "RF 4887" here was made: https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/3990
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 3990 in rosetta "Need to support KDE like translation context" [High,Fix released]
<avar> I'd like to view a diff of it to see how this feature works
<avar> I'm working on a project which would like to use context in translations. But can't use the normal gettext facility for that because the Java gettext library sucks. So using the standard KDE hack looks like the way to go since launchpad supports it.
<Fly-Man-> Question:
<Fly-Man-> How do I checkout a Bazaar trunk into Launchpad ?
<wgrant> Fly-Man-: How does it make sense to check something out *into* Launchpad, and why would you want to?
<Fly-Man-> wgrant, as I have a bzr trunk now
<Fly-Man-> but I receive this error
<Fly-Man-> bzr: ERROR: Transport error: Server refuses to fullfil the request
<wgrant> Fly-Man-: What are you trying to do?
<Fly-Man-> I'm trying to grab a bzr trunk
<wgrant> What command are you executing?
<Fly-Man-> and I thought to proper way to get one is
<Fly-Man-> bzr branch <url> branchname
<wgrant> That's right. What is the exact command that you are executing?
<Fly-Man-> wgrant IM
#launchpad 2010-09-20
<micahg> lifeless: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/126078
<lifeless> wgrant: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/126078 could you note in there what needs doing to make it trivial for EBUSY losas's :)
<wgrant> lifeless: Done.
<lifeless> spm: in your queue, low pri-or-hand-to-your-successor-this-evening
<lifeless> spm: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/126078
<micahg> can we no longer subscribe people to questions?
<lifeless> micahg: I don't recall any changes to stop it
<lifeless> why?
<micahg> becuase I can't do it on the above question
 * micahg looks for a bug
<bdrung_> i have a question about launchpadlib: if i have a merge proposal object, how do i get the related distribution?
<micahg> lifeless: bug 201498
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 201498 in Launchpad Answers "subscribe someone else to a question in Answers (affected: 1, heat: 12)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/201498
 * micahg guesses it was never there to being with
<lifeless> bdrung_: from the target branch
<bdrung_> lifeless: mergeproposal.target_branch.?
<lifeless> yeah
<bdrung_> lifeless: i don't see a distribution link in https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc/1.0.html#branch
<bdrung_> am i blind or is there a trick?
<lifeless> well it won't be to distro
<lifeless> it will be to distro series
<lifeless> and it may not be exposed yet
<lifeless> nope, there it goes
<lifeless> sourcepackage_link
<bdrung_> lifeless: mergeproposal.target_branch.sourcepackage.distribution . let's test it
<poolie> i just got a gpg rejection mail from launchpad
<poolie> even though i wasn't asking it to do anything but add a comment
<poolie> is this a known bug?
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> it may be; colin watson filed a bug last week on malone
<poolie> ah mine was bug 643170
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 643170 in Launchpad Foundations "mail quoting a gpg-signed mail produces "submit request failure" (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643170
<poolie> makes sense when you think about it
<ajmitch> is loggerhead a bit broken today?
<lifeless> first report we've had
<lifeless> why/
<ajmitch> OOPS-1724CB184
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1724CB184
<ajmitch> I was probably being bad, since I was opening a series of revisions in a new tab
<ajmitch> got an oops on each of them
<lifeless> try again
<ajmitch> still broke, OOPS-1724CB204
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1724CB204
<lifeless> spm: can you see of loggerhead has gone south and if so gcore and restrat ?
<spm> hrm. it seems perfectly fine. doing zip all.
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> ajmitch: what url ?
<ajmitch> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/libindicate/trunk/revision/382
<lifeless> hmm, that should be trivial
<lifeless> the OOPS reports aren't showing up in the oops ui
<lifeless> could you do me a favour and file a bug about that on launchpad-foundations
<wgrant> *cough* op issue
<lifeless> wgrant: *cough* no
<ajmitch> file a bug about the OOPS happening, or it not showing up for you?
<wgrant> :(
<lifeless> wgrant: and even if it was, we're one project, not two projects.
<lifeless> ajmitch: about it not showing up.
<ajmitch> ok, bug #643182
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 643182 in Launchpad Foundations "OOPS report not showing up in the OOPS UI (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643182
<ajmitch> given the number of revisions I tried to view at once, I probably caused some locking to go funny
<lifeless> its readonly ;)
<lifeless> there's clearly also an issue with the branch, but until we can diagnose..
<ajmitch> I won't pretend to know why it fell over in a screaming heap then :)
<micahg> lifeless: do you have a document explaining why bi-directional linking with upstream is good?
<lifeless> no idea
<lifeless> probably
<micahg> lifeless: Mozilla's asking why they need it
<micahg> mozilla 597786
<ubot5`> Mozilla bug 597786 in Bugzilla: Other b.m.o Issues "Ubuntu Launchpad bugspamming b.m.o. Linking to (Ancient|Dupped|Wrong Product) bugs." [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597786
<lifeless> gmb: ^
 * micahg thinks he's subscribed already
<lifeless> micahg: you have seen the parallel bug in launchpad, right ?
<micahg> lifeless: yes
<lifeless> good good
<micahg> lifeless: but the LP bug seemed a little tamer
<lifeless> so it allows closer integration
<lifeless> it breaks down the silo and allows something more like federation
<lifeless> its new, and there will be tuning steps needed.
<lifeless> I'm sure there is a spec /wiki page(s) etc
<lifeless> but you'll be just as able as I to find them.
<lifeless> there are some contentious angles
<lifeless> one is extra noise (though frankly, if this had happened when the bugs were open, as it would normally, not 2 years later), I don't htink anyone would have thought to complain.
<lifeless> another is the proxy effect of non bugzilla users being able to comment via LP
<micahg> lifeless: what if we just added more recent stuff?
<lifeless> but see also http://www.salmon-protocol.org/
<micahg> like w/in the last year?
<lifeless> which would be lovely to migrate to, but LP needs more of an atom/rss model for that to be within reach.
<lifeless> micahg: well it should be caught up now.
<lifeless> but talk to gmb; the dude knows.
<micahg> lifeless: k, will have to do later if I"m still on or in the morning here
<Eliovir> hello
<Eliovir> is there a problem with the translation export to bzr branch ?
<Eliovir> https://answers.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/125775
<dpm> henninge, ^
<henninge> Eliovir, dpm: jtv will be looking into this.
 * jtv waves
<Eliovir> henninge: thanks
<Eliovir> jtv, thanks for finding the bug.
<jtv> Eliovir: I haven't found anything yetâ¦ we have the error message, but I'm still looking for what might trigger it.
<Eliovir> ;) it is "in progress"
<jtv> It's not directly triggered by translations code, only indirectly.  So the question is now, where exactly.
<Eliovir> so, good luck/good work!
<jtv> thanks :)
<jtv> Eliovir: do you happen to know whether the template(s) contain a translation credits message?
<jtv> (If so, chances are actually that the same error is waiting for us in the translation UI somewhere)
<Eliovir> I'm looking
<jtv> I'm guessing probably not, but might as well check.
<jtv> Thanks.
<Eliovir> the only email address is
<Eliovir> "Language-Team: eo <translation-team-eo@lists.sourceforge.net>\n"
<Eliovir> for example
<Eliovir> and
<Eliovir> # FULL NAME <EMAIL@ADDRESS>, 2010.
<Eliovir> hm, sorry, you told "template"
<Eliovir> "Last-Translator: FULL NAME <EMAIL@ADDRESS>\n" "Language-Team: LANGUAGE <LL@li.org>\n"
<jtv> The translation credits message is a special msgid, typically "translator_credits" or somesuch
<jtv> That's where the names and email addresses of the translators are automatically inserted.
<jtv> (It's not actually translatable in the Launchpad UI, because the "translation" is automatically generated, but it shows up as one of the messages in the template)
<Eliovir> the templates do not contain such message
<jtv> OK
<Eliovir> thanks for the notice
<jtv> ah-hah
<jtv> Eliovir: I have a suspect, though it's not actually in the Translations code.  I'll go over to #launchpad-dev to see if I can raise anyone to discuss it with.
<jtv> (If you're interested in Launchpad's internal workings, my suspect is a function called get_contact_email_addresses)
<jtv> Hrmâ¦ no, I clear that one of all charges.  Back to searching.
<jtv> Okay, new suspectâ¦ I _think_ this can happen if we have no preferred email address for the branch owner.
<ricotz> bigjools, hello, i found a build which is stuck - https://edge.launchpad.net/~guido-iodice/+archive/guiodic-testing/+build/1958516
<bigjools> ricotz: ok thanks, I need to wait for an admin to reset the builder
<Eliovir> jtv: I have a prefered email-address
<jtv> Eliovir: but you're not the branch owner, are you?  :)  It's owned by a team.
<Eliovir> ;) you're right
<jtv> This is a change in the Code app that we developed for this feature.
<jtv> (We developed the change for this feature, not the entire Code app :)
<Eliovir> jtv: the team does not have an email address 'No contact email'
<jtv> 'zacly
<Eliovir> jtv: if you need, I can set an email address
<jtv> Eliovir: if my guess is right, that'll work around the problem for now.
<Eliovir> jtv: do you want I set an email address or you want to change the code ?
<jtv> Eliovir: I'll change the code, and hopefully that'll fix the problem before tomorrow's run.
<Eliovir> many thx
<jtv> But in case I don't make it (I need to design a solution together with people in other timezones), it'd still be useful to set a contact address.  If that fixes your problem before I get my fix in, it'll confirm whether this is really the problem you're hitting.
<Eliovir> jtv: ok, so I set it. I nothing occurs tomorrow, I'll come back to tell it.
<luboss> hello
<luboss> do you think that you could point me to place where I could find how ubuntu repository work? what's the mechanism behind creating distro files. I have found bunch of tools which can do the work, but very curious which of them uses Ubuntu.
<luboss> not distro files, sorry. I mean suites - releases
<Odd_Bloke> I'd appreciate someone having a look at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+question/123948
<maxb> Is there a CHR person?
<maxb> If so, please reassign development focus branch on https://edge.launchpad.net/librsvg/main from lp:~vcs-imports/librsvg/old-svn to lp:~vcs-imports/librsvg/master
<bdrung_> when will the bzr-builder format 0.3 be supported? i tried to use it, but i got an oops (OOPS-1724ED552)
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1724ED552
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<allenap> Hi maxb :)
<maxb> Hi
<allenap> maxb: Done.
<maxb> Also, could you public-pastebin bdrung_'s oops?
<maxb> thanks
<allenap> maxb: Is the traceback enough? I'm not sure if there's sensitive information in the rest of the log.
<maxb> traceback should be enough to hazard a guess as to the cause
<allenap> maxb: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/496992/
<maxb> bdrung_: So, it looks like a new enough bzr-builder was integrated already, but there's still a check in the Launchpad code which believes 0.2 is the maximum supported.
<bdrung_> ok
<maxb> It would probably be wise to file a bug against launchpad-code to record that, in which case there's a decent chance it can be taken care of for next month's rollout
<wgrant> maxb, bdrung_: There's already a branch in progress to support 0.3.
<wgrant> It's even approved.
<maxb> ah. I checked for bugs
<bdrung_> do you have the bug number?
<wgrant> I don't think there is one.
<wgrant> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~abentley/launchpad/allow-0.3/+merge/34478
<bdrung_> that links to bug #479705, which has an open launchpad-code task
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 479705 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "merge subdirs (affected: 4, heat: 22)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/479705
<wgrant> Ah, I didn't see the -code task.
<mgedmin> "OOPS reports - lovely" on https://dev.launchpad.net/ArchitectureGuide tickles my curiosity
<mgedmin> do you have any non-private examples?
<jml> mgedmin, not that I know of.
<jml> mgedmin, there might be some pasted on the public mailing list
<james_w> hey, oopses generate by loggerhead!
<jcastro> Hi, I need help transferring the smuxi superproject to the right person: https://edge.launchpad.net/smuxi
<Odd_Bloke> maxb: I've worked out the problem at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+question/123948.  Should I now file a bug?
<Odd_Bloke> maxb: Thanks for all your help, by the way. :)
<maxb> *blink* That's. Really. Not. Supposed. To. Happen.
<mdeslaur> Can someone help me? I've been trying to unembargo a security update for the past two hours, and LP has been OOPSING every single time. ie: OOPS-1724O1306
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1724O1306
<mdeslaur> or this: OOPS-1724L1218
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1724L1218
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<allenap> mdeslaur: That OOPS is not recorded it seems. Can you check that it's correct?
<cjohnston> What's up with bazaar.lp.net?
<mdeslaur> allenap: actually, it's bug #641338
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 641338 in Soyuz "timeouts too low for security unembargo (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641338
<cjohnston> I'm constantly getting "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server." when trying to look at code on lp
<gege2061> Hello
<gege2061> (sorry for my poor english)
<gege2061> I have a problem with launchpad: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~valide/valide/trunk/files
<gege2061> And I can't init a new local repository:
<gege2061> $ bzr init lp:valide
<gege2061> bzr: ERROR: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', "Cannot lock LockDir(lp-100603472:///%2Bbranch/valide/.bzr/branchlock): File exists: u'/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/mirrors/00/05/bb/f3/.bzr/branch/lock': [Errno 17] File exists: '/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/mirrors/00/05/bb/f3/.bzr/branch/lock'")
<gege2061> anyone can help me?
<maxb> gege2061: Generally, you do not "bzr init" branches on Launchpad. You initialize a new branch locally, and push it to launchpad once you've got something in the branch
<gege2061> maxb: indeed, 'bzr branch' is better but doesn't work
<maxb> What are you actually trying to do?
<gege2061> $ bzr branch lp:valide
<gege2061> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~valide-dev/valide/trunk/": location is a repository.
<maxb> right, so what we have here is a stacking issue. Let me investigate...
<gege2061> It's probably du to the new team (valide-dev)
<gege2061> maxb: thank's
<maxb> yes, combine with a launchpad bug
<maxb> gege2061: Why is there both ~valide-dev/valide/trunk and ~valide/valide/trunk ? What is the intended end result?
<gege2061> I don't know, I created a new team for a mailing-list
<gege2061> ~/valide/valide/trunk is the only valid branch
<maxb> hmm. I wonder what someone did to create that
<maxb> s/that/the other branch, with this messed up stacking relationship
<gege2061> strangely my local branche point to ~valide-dev/valide/trunk but I don't ask anything
<ahasenack> can I undo a nomination for a release?
<maxb> ahasenack: I don't think so
<ahasenack> it wasn't acted upon yet, it just says "nominated for maverick by foo"
<maxb> gege2061: Ok, so what has happened, is that somehow someone has deleted the branch tip metadata for lp:~valide-dev/valide/trunk, and turned it into a shared repository
<jcsackett> freaking internet connection is having issues today.
<gege2061> maxb: I have an opportunity to correct it?
<maxb> Yes, I'm just trying to figure out how to best describe the process
<maxb> gege2061: Please could you run "bzr init lp:~valide-dev/valide/trunk" - I am expecting it to error, but have done something useful by the time it errors
<gege2061> maxb: bzr: ERROR: Already a branch: "lp:~valide/valide/trunk".
<maxb> you did run exactly what I said? ~valide-*dev* not ~valide?
<gege2061> bzr: ERROR: Already a branch: "lp:~valide-dev/valide/trunk".
<maxb> gege2061: great, it's improved the situation a bit
<maxb> gege2061: ok, so next step is to get things to the point where you can delete one of the trunks
<maxb> First, lp:valide/website is marked as sharing storage with it, though it doesn't need to - so run: bzr reconfigure --unstacked lp:valide/website
<gege2061> maxb: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/valide/website/ is now not stacked
<maxb> gege2061: right, now the same for the other branch: bzr reconfigure --unstacked lp:valide
<gege2061> maxb: done
<maxb> gege2061: Ideally you would now delete ~valide-dev/valide/trunk. However, there's one recipe build attached to it
<maxb> You would have to get the owner of the recipe build to delete it first
<Azendale> I'm having problems looking at bzr branches. Is that down for scheduled maintenance or something?
<gege2061> maxb: On the website, that doesn't work : "This branch cannot be deleted as it has 6  branches sharing revisions."
<maxb> gege2061: hmm, looking
<maxb> Azendale: not that I know of, but it breaks often. Can you paste an exact URL that breaks?
<gege2061> maxb: the command is mut (no message)
<maxb> gege2061: Could you try "bzr reconfigure --stacked-on=bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~valide/valide/trunk lp:~valide/valide/0.7" ?
<maxb> And if that succeeds, repeat for 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.5.1 0.6.1
<gege2061> ok
<gege2061> maxb: I have a problem with 0.4 and 0.5:
<gege2061> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~valide/valide/main/".
<maxb> ah, I see, stuff has been renamed in the past
<maxb> gege2061: Could you download this script, the bzr core command doesn't have the necessary options for fixing this alone: http://j.maxb.eu/~maxb/bzr-set-stacked-url.py
<maxb> You can then run "./bzr-set-stacked-url.py lp:~valide/valide/0.4 ~valide-dev/valide/trunk", followed by "bzr reconfigure --stacked-on=bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~valide/valide/trunk lp:~valide/valide/0.4"
<gege2061> ok
<Azendale> maxb: I went away from the computer for a couple of minutes and when I retryed it it worked. It was http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/revision/4378 if you still wanted to know
<maxb> Azendale: ok. Unfortunately Loggerhead is a little flaky in huge deployments. People are working on it, slowly.
<gege2061> maxb: bzrlib.errors.PermissionDenied: Permission denied: "Cannot create '~valide-dev'. Only Bazaar branches are allowed."
<gege2061> it's not rather ~/valide/valide/trunk ?
<maxb> gege2061: oh whoops, I missed the lp: prefix
<gege2061> maxb: bzrlib.errors.NotBranchError: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~valide-dev/valide/trunk/": location is a repository.
<maxb> !
<maxb> So somehow lp:~valide-dev/valide/trunk has returned to its earlier broken state
<maxb> Try "bzr init lp:~valide-dev/valide/trunk" again
<gege2061> maxb: bzr: ERROR: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~valide-dev/valide/trunk/.bzr/ is not a local path.
<maxb> gege2061: ok, it says that, but it did what we need it to. Try the "./bzr-set-stacked-url.py lp:~valide/valide/0.4 lp:~valide-dev/valide/trunk", followed by "bzr reconfigure --stacked-on=bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~valide/valide/trunk lp:~valide/valide/0.4" again
<gege2061> maxb: it's ok now
<maxb> gege2061: ok, so repeat for 0.5, and then hopefully there will be no branches sharing revisions
<gege2061> maxb: done
<maxb> just to check, try deleting ~valide-dev/valide/trunk again
<gege2061> maxb: "recipe uses this branch"
<maxb> ok, so you'll have to get in contact with the owner of the recipe. Once they've deleted it, you should be able to finish this tidy-up
<gege2061> Ok it's an old branch I see this the owner for deletion
<gege2061> s/this/with/
<gege2061> maxb: now that work fine, thank you so much for your help!
<maxb> no problem :-)
<gege2061> Is my fault? To avoid repeat
<maxb> I don't think so. Part of it is a Launchpad bug that it doesn't fix the Bazaar-side metadata when it lets you rename a branch with other branches stacked upon it (this is being worked on). But there was also something very weird with the branch becoming not-a-branch
<bsaibes_> Is the staging server up?
#launchpad 2010-09-21
<maco> bdmurray: you rock
<bdmurray> maco: why thanks! ;-)
<maco> you're making all the changes to lp that frequent-users need
<bdmurray> well, thats my background- frequent launchpad user ;-)
<maco> yay dogfood?
<lru> is it possible to report a bug in ubuntu via email, like Debian?
<micahg> lru: https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
<lru> micahg: nice, thanks :-)
<micahg> lru: np
 * micahg thinks the idea of rotations is cool
<lru> Ubuntu sure is paranoid about getting anonymous bug reports though
<micahg> lru: it's more to prevent spam I would think
<lru> Debian doesn't need it
<micahg> lru: Ubuntu is higher profile (more exposure), more potential for abuse
<wgrant> And the Ubuntu bugtracker has a far lower learning curve.
<micahg> lru: plus launchpad isn't just for Ubuntu
<micahg> the safeguards must be for all the projects
<lru> it's the "if you want to play with us, you must be a member of our club" attitude that I find irritating and arrogant :-)  The number of hoops a user has to jump through just to report a bug is amazing.  I even had to file a bug on creating my account.  Sad state of affairs :-)
<wgrant> The number of hoops?
<lifeless> lru: its a shame that you encountered a bug creating an account
<wgrant> You mean clicking the 'New Account' button?
<wgrant> If you have to do more than that, there is something wrong... what happened?
<lifeless> lru: however its important for bugs that we be able to have a conversation with the reporter, because usually the report has insufficient data to go on.
<poolie> wgrant: well, there is an email verification hoop
<lru> lifeless: true, but you can do that with email
<wgrant> Ah, true.
<poolie> i think that one is particularly insidious because it inserts a stall in to the process
<lru> if a user is reporting a bug via email, the email likely works  :-)
<poolie> possibly minutes, possibly more
<wgrant> lru: Why?
<lifeless> lru: exactly what we do do infact. I think we could make things a bit easier, but the basic structure seems ok.
<wgrant> poolie: It's a few seconds for me.
<lru> wgrant: why have a conversation in email?
<poolie> you can't start reporting only by email
<lru> poolie: you can in Debian
<poolie> lru, i meant "in launchpad, you can't"
<lru> ahh
<wgrant> lru: Why is the email likely to work?
<wgrant> You can't trust an email's sender address.
<poolie> so i think we could do better
<lru> wgrant: because why report a bug if you don't expect to get any feedback?  The user can't expect much progress if people can't reply.  It's a natural two way handshake... user expects help, helper expects a contact point... email does that.
<poolie> lru, the point is that there is a lot of forged email out there
<poolie> spam etc
<lru> yes, but is spam a bug report?
<lru> no
<poolie> sure
<wgrant> Is spam filtering perfect? Also no.
<poolie> of course it's not
<poolie> the point is that we don't want spam getting in to launchpad, and we don't want spam being bounced back to you
<lru> if it looks like a bug report, it's probably from a user who cares enough to report it, rather than a spammer... am I wrong here?
<poolie> i think the current setup is very far from perfect, but that's the reason we verify email first
<poolie> lru, sure, but it's actually a bit hard to distinguish them
<poolie> you may say "well it has a valid apport file attached" but not all users report bugs that way
<wgrant> And once you accept bugs filed through an untrusted mechanism, how do you distinguish them from bugs where the identity is verified?
<poolie> i think it would be nice to tweak the account creation process in a couple of complementary avenues:
<kklimonda> lru: even now, with registration we do getreports from people who never follow up when we ask them for more info, it would get even worse if they didn't have to register.
<kklimonda> wgrant: gpg signatures! ;)
<poolie> 1- if we get an email filing a bug from a user we've never heard of before, quarantine the mail, send them one confirmation, if they acknowledge that then create a valid trusted account
<lru> I guess I don't understand why you care if you can verify a bug reporter's identity... if it is a valid bug, and you can reply to him, why demand a whole account / password hassle?
<poolie> if they don't ack, don't proceed
<poolie> 2- trust openid from third parties
<lru> yeah, you could even have a captcha in the email ack response
<poolie> 3- don't require email to have an active account
<wgrant> lru: In Ubuntu, for example, we use bugs for some workflow tasks. If an Ubuntu developer files a bug requesting a sync, we know that the user is who they say they are.
<lru> wgrant: that's fine... you can limit important requests to verified users... but the average guy wanting to report a bug?  Why does he need to create another account with another password to remember?
<wgrant> lru: That's where OpenID comes in.
<wgrant> But Launchpad isn't quite to the stage of accepting external OpenIDs.
<poolie> mm
<wgrant> It's nearly there, but not quite.
<kklimonda> wgrant: btw, is it just me or does  any email containing commands have to be signed, even if actions are available to anyone?
<wgrant> kklimonda: That's right.
<poolie> so there is a concept of "strongly or weakly authenticated" for incoming mail
<kklimonda> wgrant: is it a limitation or a design decision?
<wgrant> kklimonda: Otherwise I could impersonate another user changing the status. And that's bad.
<poolie> at the moment, to report a new bug, you must be strongly authenticated
<lru> OpenID is a hack to fix a problem that shouldn't exist.  I have an email address.  You can reach me by it.  I'm willing to respond with an ack if you want to prevent spam.  Why do I need a password in this transation?
<poolie> likewise to change a status
<micahg> lru: most bug trackers work this way
<lifeless> lru: you're wrong about spammers here
<wgrant> As I see it, there are the bug trackers that require accounts.
<wgrant> And then there is Debian.
<kklimonda> :D
<lru> micahg: I know most trackers work this way... which just makes it worse, not better :-)
<lifeless> lru: we get lots of spam (that we block) and we get spam that we miss and have to go back and deal with.
<lru> lifeless: you're saying that spammers create new accounts and manage to spam your bug tracking system, with a valid account / password or GPG signature, and you have to delete their spammy reports?
<lifeless> lru: yes
<lru> lol
<lru> then the average spammer is more persistent than the average bug reporter :-)
<lifeless> they create an account - which is easy, we don't have captcha - and then do various things.
<lru> there was captcha in my launchpad account creation today
<lifeless> oh, maybe thats new
<lru> I have no trouble with captcha... I don't have to track that like I do an account / password
<wgrant> There has been a captcha for a few months.
<lru> anyway, thank you very much for taking me seriously enough to have this conversation with me
<lru> I appreciate it
<lru> and once my account creation bug is fixed, I can finally report my bug lol
<wgrant> Which is the bug?
<lru> I tried doing a debootstrap in lucid, and then dist-upgrading to maverick, but in the chroot system, upstart complains about a missing socket
<wgrant> I mean the account creation bug.
<lru> wgrant: ahh, it would accept one address but not another
<lru> wgrant: I expect it is zealous spam protection rearing it's ugly head again
<lru> were you asking for the bug number?
<wgrant> If there is one.
<lru> The ack said: Launchpad login case 00012896
<wgrant> Ah, one of them.
<wgrant> Have you had a response?
<lru> interestingly, the bug report response arrived, but not the launchpad account creation instructions
<wgrant> login.launchpad.net is a different set of servers.
 * lru nods
<lru> I'm liking maverick's installer.... asking for non-critical information during the copy process
<lru> very smart
<wgrant> Yeah, it's had a bit of a makeover this time.
<lru> wgrant: are you looking into the login bug?  should I stick around?
<wgrant> lru: I can't help with that, I'm afraid. Have you received a response to the ticket? When did you file it?
<lru> wgrant: I only filed it about 2 hours ago
<wgrant> Ah.
<lru> thanks... didn't want to dash off if you were going to ask questions :-)
<lru> take care
<wgrant> You should receive a response in the next couple of days.
<daws> is there a room for the TI launchpad?
<wgrant> I don't know of one.
<wgrant> It's certainly not this one.
<persia> Although TI might be pointing folks using Ubuntu to this launchpad.
<lifeless> persia: the launchpad is a hardware device
<lifeless> persia: http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_(MSP-EXP430G2)?DCMP=launchpad&HQS=Other+OT+launchpadwiki
<persia> Oh, heh :)
<lifeless> the name clash is exacerbated by it being a 'development tool'
<lru> is it possible to avoid upstart in Maverick?
<tgm4883> lru, you are probably looking for #ubuntu+1
<lru> +1 ? :-)
<lru> ahh, thanks
<tgm4883> np :)
<micahg> would someone be able to check if the any of the chromium-daily PPAs were scored down?
<nettezzaumana> hi there
<nettezzaumana> bloody hell, how can i *comment in that sucking launchpad .. there is no way to comment someone .. eg. to have in some quoted form what someone else said
<nettezzaumana> i need to react on just a *comment no. $x and i can't see any way howto do it without some inane pasting original text to new comment
<noodles775> micahg: afaics the chromium daily builds are scored at 2505, and I'm not aware of any changes to their scoring? Might it just be the long i386/amd64 queues currently? https://edge.launchpad.net/builders
<micahg> noodles775: I saw some at 2455
<micahg> noodles775: https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/dev/+build/1964099
<micahg> noodles775: there seem to be a few of those in that PPA that are from the 11th
<noodles775> micahg: yeah, just looking now.
<micahg> noodles775: thanks :)
<noodles775> micahg: I've rescored that one build to 2505 (matching the others), but I'm not sure why it (and possibly others) would have had different initial scores, given that they have similar attributes.
<micahg> noodles775: thanks, yeah, idk why either
<wgrant> The archive isn't set to -50?
 * noodles775 thought they were all for the same archive.
<noodles775> wgrant: right, that one was for the ubuntu chromium dev channel archive.
<wgrant> Aha.
<micahg> noodles775: there seem to be 8 more :(
<noodles775> micahg: Looking at that PPA, it looks like the lpia arch builds are being scored slightly lower than the i386/amd64 arches (which are all built). I assume this is related to managing the resources, but haven't been following the discussions lately.
<wgrant> I don't think there's code to do that.
<micahg> noodles775: that's why I requested an extra lpia builder so that all can build w/in 24 hrs
<noodles775> micahg: I see.
<micahg> right now the queue is at 20 hrs
<noodles775> wgrant: yeah, I'm not aware of it either.
<nettezzaumana> well, would any responsible adult here tell me, howto comment what someone else said in launchpad?
<noodles775> nettezzaumana: if you've received their comment via email, just hit reply. If not, which page are you looking at?
<nettezzaumana> noodles775: thanks .. https://bugs.launchpad.net/qemu/+bug/638955
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 638955 in QEMU "emulated netcards don't work with recent sunos kernel (affected: 1, heat: 10)" [Undecided,New]
<nettezzaumana> noodles775: problem is, that my email dpecka@opensuse.org is just a gateway for incoming emails and not usable for outgoing one
<nettezzaumana> noodles775: ^^ tru dat, cuz it's a weak place in my plan
<micahg> nettezzaumana: you can set it in your mail client
<nettezzaumana> micahg: ah. ok, let me see
<nettezzaumana> noodles775 & micahg << just confirm that what i need can be achieved only *by *using *email? right?
<noodles775> nettezzaumana: I can't see a reply option for individual bug comments there (although I can for merge proposals). You could also work around it by hitting reply in your mail client and pasting the reply text into the comment box.
<micahg> nettezzaumana: it's a feature request: bug 102441
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 102441 in Launchpad Bugs "Web interface to reply to a comment (affected: 3, heat: 2)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102441
<nettezzaumana> noodles775: sure .. this what just tortures me .. micahg: yeah, thanks for showing me feature request
<nettezzaumana> noodles775 & micahg << anyway. it's resolved now, thanks to both. you've just confirmed for me, that problem is not on receiver site .. i didn't want to believe, that i can't comment what someone else said in launchpad in year of 2010
<nettezzaumana> Reported by Johan Dahlin on 2007-04-03
<nettezzaumana> aka bug 102441 ^^
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 102441 in Launchpad Bugs "Web interface to reply to a comment (affected: 3, heat: 2)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102441
<micahg> nettezzaumana: every project has limited resources
<nettezzaumana> it just a mark of someone's boundless ignoracy
<micahg> nettezzaumana: ?
<nettezzaumana> micahg: ubuntu/launchpad is a pretty big community .. i'm in oss devels several past years and i couldn't realize that this kind of feature request could hang since 2007 until now
<nettezzaumana> micahg: no offense against you personally, don't feel touched mate
<micahg> nettezzaumana: It's open source, I'm sure patches would be welcome
<wgrant> Ubuntu and Launchpad are also very large projects with a lot of feature requests and bugs to be fixed.
<wgrant> Not everything can get done quickly.
<micahg> we have 86k bugs open against Ubuntu right now, there's no way we can go through all those
<nettezzaumana> wgrant: button in web iface for replying what someone else said is just core thing which should has high priority IMO
<nettezzaumana> ** s/has/have/2
<nettezzaumana> anyway. thanks for help .. this discussion is pointless
<noodles775> micahg: I've rescored the other 8 to 2505 too. I checked with bigjools (who can see secret stuff ;), and apparently the dev ppa does have -50 applied as wgrant suggested it might. I don't know when it was set or why.
<noodles775> Only admins can do that, so we can check with them :)
<micahg> noodles775: k, well, I guess it made sense with only 2 lpia builders, hopefully with 3 everythign can complete
<noodles775> Yep.
<micahg> I pushed a lot of builds yesterday which is probably why most of those older builds didn't finish
<wgrant> Hm, I thought ~launchpad was in ~commercial-admins...
<micahg> thank noodles775
<wgrant> I must be mistaken.
<noodles775> wgrant: nope, I'm not in commercial-admins.
<noodles775> There are a bunch of LP'rs, but just those who need access afaik.
<wgrant> Yeah, looks like it.
<Eliovir> Hi/Saluton/Bonjour
<Eliovir> I wonder about the Translation import process. In the queue, there are many translations marked as "Needs Review". They are not imported. What does it mean?
<nettezzaumana> https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/102441/comments/7
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 102441 in Launchpad Bugs "Web interface to reply to a comment (affected: 3, heat: 2)" [Low,Triaged]
<nettezzaumana> bon apetit guys !! ^^
<nettezzaumana> :D
<micahg> nettezzaumana: comments like that don't help, that's why there a button where you can mark it affecting you
<nettezzaumana> micahg: well, it helps me at first .. and also little sharpened fun won't hurt (unless you're sissy) ;)
 * micahg won't bother anymore
<hrw> hi
<wgrant> Did you manage to get it working in the primary archive?
<hrw> build of my package failed with "dpkg-genchanges: error: cannot fstat file ../armel-cross-toolchain-base_1.48cross1.48_amd64_translations.tar.gz: No such file or directory" - what do I have to install in my pbuilder to be able to reproduce it so will have a place to test before next upload?
<hrw> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/56149448/buildlog_ubuntu-maverick-amd64.armel-cross-toolchain-base_1.48_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is whole build log
<wgrant> hrw: pkgbinarymangler
<wgrant> Just install that.
<hrw> thx
<geser> wgrant: is translation stripping enabled by default? I remember I had to enable some parts of pkgbinarymangler inside my pbuilder but not which ones.
<wgrant> geser: I think it's enabled by default.
<wgrant> Maintainer mangling probably isn't.
 * wgrant checks.
<wgrant> pkgstriptranslations is on by default.
<geser> ok then
<ronny> hi
<ronny> where can i actually change my password?
<wgrant> ronny: login.launchpad.net
<ronny> why is that completely invisible in the ui for everything else?
<ronny> oh, and thanks
<wgrant> Because it's actually a separate application now, and the links back to it aren't exactly great yet.
<Eliovir> I wonder about the Translation import process. In the queue, there are many translations marked as "Needs Review". They are not imported. What does it mean?
<Eliovir> I saw nothing in the help.
<wgrant> henninge: ^^
<henninge> Eliovir: different reason. For translations it may be that either the file name does not match a language code or that no template can be found to which the translations belong.
<henninge> Eliovir: For templates it's usually the manual approval process being slow because we are busy. Feel free to ping us about any of those. But there are also a few other reasons why templates might not be approved.
<henninge> wgrant: thanks ;)
<Eliovir> henninge: wgrant: thanks
<Eliovir> All were OK before, I'll check again later.
<Eliovir> (the templates were well integrated.)
<Eliovir> bye
<fta> wgrant, bigjools-afk, about bug 139855, what's left to be done? i remember a script was supposed to run somewhere
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 139855 in Soyuz "Display stats about PPA usage (affected: 29, heat: 214)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139855
<wgrant> noodles775: Do you know what's happening with the script?
<wgrant> I think all the known performance problems are fixed.
<noodles775> Yes, they should be... afaik it just needs to be tried now on germanium and start working through the backlog.
<noodles775> wgrant, fta: I've just emailed losas asking if they could try the updated cronscript.
<wgrant> noodles775: Thanks.
<fta> is it already in the API?
<noodles775> fta: wgrant added https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#binary_package_release_download_count
<noodles775> (see methods above that too, such as getDailyDownloadTotals etc.)
<fta> \o/
<noodles775> It's just the data that is missing :/
<wgrant> It's been in the API for 6 months now, yeah
<wgrant> Just taking a while to get the script to run without destroying the world.
<wgrant> getDownloadCount returns a single total, getDailyDownloadTotals returns a dict mapping days to counts, getDownloadCounts returns per day/country totals.
* jtv changed the topic of #launchpad to:  http://launchpad.net/ : translations export to branches broken if branch owner has no contact email / preferred email set | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | Help contact: - |  Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<fta> wgrant, can i have it per dist / arch ?
<wgrant> fta: The counts are per binary package.
<fta> oh, ok
<wgrant> So, yes, you *have* to have it per dist/arch.
<wgrant> If you have suggestions for a better way to expose it, I'm all ears.
<wgrant> I just implemented a basic API thinking that it'd be up and running quickly and improved soon.
<fta> once it's populated, i'll give it a try
<moonflux> since a few days I'm trying to report a bug against the ubuntu kernel package and launchpad just timeouts after I submitted it
<moonflux> last Error ID: OOPS-1725C1074
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1725C1074
<fta> what's happening with the ppa builders again today? the q keeps growing and there a lot of free builders.
<fta> none of my builds from last night (11h ago) got a chance to start yet :(
<noodles775> fta: the PPA builders look near full atm? Also, I rescored your lpia builds for chromium-daily/dev this morning - they're almost done now (one waiting).
<noodles775> hrm, full with lots of translation templates build jobs.
<wgrant> All for the one branch, too.
<wgrant> That appears suboptimal.
<noodles775> bigjools, jtv: looks like currently almost 50% of i386 builders are building a translations template for the same branch.
<henninge> wgrant: it is and we are aware of that ... :(
<noodles775> Ah, good.
<wgrant> henninge: It creates them without checking if there's a pending job already?
<henninge> wgrant: yes ... :(
 * henninge is embarrased
<wgrant> Heh.
<wgrant> henninge: Does it at least only create them on tip changes, not every new revision that's pushed?
<henninge> wgrant: not sure
<fta> noodles775, thanks for the rescores from earlier today, almost 10 days for those :P
<bigjools> henninge: that's a critical bug IMO
<henninge> bigjools: let me see if we have a bug for it at all ...
<bigjools> let's get it fixed either way :)
<henninge> Which style is the right style for headings in doctest? I for get ...
<henninge> == Heading ==
<henninge> or
<henninge> Heading
<henninge> ======
<henninge> oops, wrong channel
* EdwinGrubbs changed the topic of #launchpad to:  http://launchpad.net/ : translations export to branches broken if branch owner has no contact email / preferred email set | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | Help contact: EdwinGrubbs |  Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<StaffanE> Any hints on why I get http error 403 when trying to allow apport to access my launchpad account?
<StaffanE> The 403 gives me an error page with no referee error
<blueyed> what's up with the ppa buildds? waiting for 13+ hours..
<EdwinGrubbs> jelmer, mbarnett: do either of you know anything about the dealy in ppa builds that blueyed noticed?
<bigjools> EdwinGrubbs: they are busy because people are uploading lots of stuff.
<blueyed> ..and there are not enough build daemons.. ;)
<bigjools> there are plenty
<bigjools> but when people upload tons of packages, there's going to be a big queue
<blueyed> seriously, uploading a package at 5am and not having some report at 7am is seriously disappointing.. just like your patch not being considered for an update of the dotdeb package for 1+ month.
<bigjools> we've got some improvements coming on line soon
<blueyed> fine.
<bigjools> sorry, everyone I speak to thinks their build is more important than everyone else's.  And everyone thinks that this free service should build their packages instantly.
<blueyed> The only reason to use a ppa really for me is to have amd64 and i386 builds easily at the same time, but I would not need it for most packages.. therefore the main reason there is to provide updated packages to folks.. but this is nasty.. waiting 1+ day for your php to build..
<bigjools> coming in to Ubuntu release time usually sees lots of delays
<blueyed> well.. I have pbuilder/sbuild setup at the server itself.. it's more a community thing for me..
<bigjools> yeah I understand
<blueyed> but only on the PPAs then, cause the other build daemons won't be that busy, by definition of freezes..
<maxb> There are a finite number of builders. The service is too popular. It works well enough to be useful.
<blueyed> they could help out..
<maxb> Though it would be nice if someone could balance the buildds to even out the unequal queue times on various architectures more often
<maxb> blueyed: Two problems: the distro builders are not virtualized, the PPA builders need to be to safely run untrusted code.
<maxb> And the distro builders tend to be surprisingly busy even in freezes
<bigjools> people tend to do a lot of rebuilds close to release time, it causes a big jump in the queue
<EdwinGrubbs> StaffanE: can you tell me which apport command you ran?
<StaffanE> EdwinGrubbs: apport-collect, and it started lynx under 10.4-server
<fta> bigjools, my builds are bouncing again, when did you say the fix will land? it's already tough enough to get a free slot, if it's just to bounce, that's just a waste
<bigjools> fta: I don't know when the fix will land, and don't worry too much because it retries very quickly.
<bigjools> I know it's a pain, I'm doing everything I can
<EdwinGrubbs> StaffanE: I think this is the best way to either work around the problem or troubleshoot it.
<EdwinGrubbs> StaffanE: When you run apport-collect and it starts lynx, just quit lynx, but don't hit <ENTER>. Then copy the big url that apport-collect spits out.
<EdwinGrubbs> StaffanE: If you want to troubleshoot the problem you can open up another terminal and run "lynx -trace BIGURL" and then look at ~/Lynx.trace afterwords.
<EdwinGrubbs> StaffanE: If you don't care about troubleshooting it, you can just paste it into a browser that you know doesn't have any problems accessing launchpad. After you have authorized the token, you can go back and hit <ENTER> in the terminal running appor-collect.
<fta> the "A recent upload has resulted in xx pending builds" message in /+packages ppa pages seems bogus
<fta> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/dev/+packages  it says 14, while there are, well, none
<maxb> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/dev/+builds?build_text=&build_state=pending
<maxb> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/dev/+builds?build_text=&build_state=building
<maxb> fta: ^ there they are
<fta> doh, old ones. not superseded?
<maxb> The mark-as-superseded logic only kicks in when the build reaches the head of the queue
<fta> sounds suboptimal
<maxb> It's the easy way to implement it
<maxb> It would be a bit nicer if the process that superseded sources also triggered the status transition on pending builds
<bigjools> busted build farm fixed, jobs should get a bit more throughput now
<blueyed> bigjools: yay! \o/
 * blueyed looking if the 13+h build is finished.
 * blueyed is really glad to have checked patches before uploading at least.. :P - might get nasty to upload three times in a row (also for others - as a side note..; please calculate "last upload" into build scores..!!)
<maxb> bigjools: Great! I don't suppose someone could reassign another builder to lpia, to balance the queues a bit better?
<bigjools> I am considering dynamically downscoring the builds the more a single PPA has outstanding
<bigjools> maxb: I can ask
<maxb> bigjools: The score thingy would be deeply deeply annoying to people who very occasionally, upload one thing, on all active distroseries
<bigjools> yeah it would be for like >50 builds or something
<bigjools> and then gently ramped down, so as soon as builds finished the others would score up again
<maxb> If the initial threshold is above (2 sourcepackages) * (5 distroseries) * (3 architectures) + (a little leeway), it should be already
<maxb> uh
<maxb> *alright
<blueyed> maxb, bigjools: just spread number of builds across distros/targets: the more likely somebody is "insanely rebuilding for testing puposed only" the more likely it's a single target.. ^^l
<fta> so i'm doomed
<fta> ?
<bigjools> well, it's not a done deal :)
<bigjools> I'll tender all the options to the -dev list and get feedback
<blueyed> maxb: I had basically the same source package on two targets (hardy and lucid), and I am waiting 15+ hours already..?!
<fta> sounds like it's time for me to stop producing dailies for good
<blueyed> fta: probably not, they rather have a bug somewhere.. I have uploaded 2 builds in ~14 days maybe, or at least 5-7 and then get 15+ wait?!
<blueyed> ("bug" might be too less build daemons.. but is looked like they had scoring, which might be buggy)
<maxb> fta: Well, perhaps just moderate it a bit? Do people on LTS-1 or release-2 (i.e. hardy / jaunty) really care about daily builds?
<blueyed> hardy for sure.
<maxb> why?
<blueyed> I have mosts of my (virtual) containers at LTS..
<maxb> And you need daily builds of a web browser in virtual containers?
<blueyed> jaunty is quite irrelevant though, yes.
<fta> maxb, each time the ppa misses a single build, i get a dozen emails asking why there's no update
<maxb> huh. people are weird
<blueyed> maxb: I have 9 browsershots containers running, yes, indeed. But I switched chromium to the beta builds.
<blueyed> all containers have chromium, firefox (3.5 (maybe), 3.6 and 4) and opera.
<blueyed> (www.browsershots.org)
<blueyed> popular PPAs should get bumped, too: give the "number of downloads in the last hour" a quite huge bump: easy scaling.. ^^
<blueyed> (but also bump daily winners more than others).
<micahg> blueyed: only lpia has such a long wait
<lifeless> isn't lpia entirely pointless?
<micahg> lifeless: probably why it was dropped for Lucid
<blueyed> micahg: I am waiting 14+h for i386 and amd64, too: https://launchpad.net/~blueyed/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1299504/+listing-archive-extra and https://launchpad.net/~blueyed/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/1299505/+listing-archive-extra
<blueyed> My only uploads since a while.
<blueyed> lifeless: ^^
<micahg> blueyed: well, your builds are scored the same as the others
<fta> yeah, but that was a new bug, the translation pack thingy
<micahg> weird
<blueyed> micahg: ? what's weird? like which others? lpia builds scored as i396?
<micahg> blueyed: regular builds are scored for 2505 in the PPAs
<blueyed> micahg: in contrast to what?
<micahg> fta had an issue where some of his builds were scored lower, so they were deferred
<blueyed> micahg: that's more than two workdays already.
<blueyed> micahg: like mine?
<micahg> blueyed: no, yours are scored normally
<blueyed> 14h did not sound normally above?1
<fta> my builds had to wait almost 10 days
<blueyed> I have 1/5 of this already.. (might have been a child already)
<micahg> blueyed: well, maybe the build estimates are off on the builders list, idk, there is WIP to improve the build system
<blueyed> micahg: I would really like to take/pick a job like http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_UP-SE-RS3/ and helpyou with all these things.. do you have any internal pointers to a more appropriate job offering? :)
<micahg> blueyed: I don't have anything to do with it :)
<fta> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/1968713  'created 16 hours ago, Start in 1 hour'
<fta> but i bet that wont get built today
<micahg> blueyed: I just follow the -dev list and keep apprised of happenings
<blueyed> micahg: but it's really quite unacceptable for a 10k+-karma guy having to wait 24h (maybe) for a build?!
<blueyed> micahg: too bad.. I should really attack this though.. )
<micahg> blueyed: idk about that, there are limited resources for the whole community, if you want to go by karma alone, fta should be the head of the line for all his builds
<blueyed> yes, for a reason.
<blueyed> at least he's in here.. :D
<micahg> blueyed: I think it's amazing we can get by with the builders we have for the PPAs, even 1 day wait isn't horrible for this type of service
<fta> 10k karma? what's mine, lets see ;)
<blueyed> so why is that not being recognized - even if "you're not in", you should now and fix it.. :D
<fta> almost 100k, d'oh! dropped a lot since last time i checked
<blueyed> micahg: that's what I am argueing about: 8h+ is terrible already: I have started two builds at 5am this morning (before going to work), and they are not finished at 21:20 yet..
<micahg> blueyed: some archive uploads don't build that fast, so I don't think there can be a complaint for the PPAs
<tgm4883> 8+ hours? I remember waiting 24+ hours for builds
<blueyed> fta.. congrats.. lemme check.. ;) (people waiting for builds and replies are getting drunken more often)
<blueyed> tgm4883: yes, I will prolly have this.. I am talking about expectations though: getting up early and uploading a build should provide you a result in the evening (especially if it's been a 10h workday) - but what I am agueing about <== THIS IS IT IF YOU ASK WHAT I AM EXPECTING (YES - I AM DRUNK)
<blueyed> fta: are you working for ubuntu / canonical already? if not, is http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_UP-SE-RS3/ awesome for you, too? :)
<blueyed> WHO IS USING VIMPERATOR, bitches?
 * tgm4883 sighs
<micahg> !ohmy | blueyed
<ubot5`> blueyed: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<blueyed> so, you all switched to vimperator?
<blueyed> (just now are before already??)
<MTecknology> I wish you could be in a team but not need to get all of the email - work in the team - without getting email for every single action in a bug report.
<MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: Or did I just miss that somewhere?
<tgm4883> MTecknology, you don't?
<MTecknology> tgm4883: hm?
<tgm4883> well, you do, but you don't
<tgm4883> set up a bug team :)
<MTecknology> tgm4883: not inside my control
<tgm4883> ah
<MTecknology> I was on the kernel team and couldn't take the mass - even with filters
<tgm4883> then yea, any email sent to that team will get bug email as well
<tgm4883> AFAIK^
<EdwinGrubbs> MTecknology: if you can get the team to set up a mailing list, the bug mail will go there, and you can opt out of the mailing list, but there currently isn't a way to opt out of email if the team doesn't have a contact email address set up.
<MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: I might need to try that..
<MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: thanks
<EdwinGrubbs> MTecknology: technically, if the team can also have an email address set instead of adding a LP mailing list, which may help if a mailing list already exists someplace else.
<EdwinGrubbs> s/if//
<MTecknology> EdwinGrubbs: I should have thought of that too... Thanks :)
#launchpad 2010-09-22
* EdwinGrubbs changed the topic of #launchpad to:  http://launchpad.net/ : translations export to branches broken if branch owner has no contact email / preferred email set | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | Help contact: - |  Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<bdrung_> we discussed the change to the production LP API of ubuntu-dev-tools in #ubuntu-motu. the file ubuntutools/lp/libsupport.py needs to support the production API in translate_web_api(). is this patch http://pastebin.com/vL2tUdxf the right way to do it?
<tumbleweed> this function seems to turn web URLs into API URLs (obviously some limited subset)
<wgrant> bdrung_: Production doesn't have 'production' in its URL.
<wgrant> edge is edge.launchpad.net, production is just launchpad.net
<tumbleweed> err, s/production/edge/ that's a 2am typo
<bdrung_> wgrant: would that be the right check or should we make it more restrictive?
<wgrant> bdrung_: I think you should be comparing the netloc directly.
<wgrant> Not with that jungle of comparisons.
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: ^
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: sounds fair enough, it was a very hacky patch. I'll look in the morning.
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Comparing the netloc (perhaps after stripping 'api.' from the front) should do what you want.
<wgrant> As well as being far cleaner.
<tumbleweed> wgrant: yeah
<bdrung_> tumbleweed: let me know once you have developed something
<tumbleweed> bdrung_: k, night.
<bdrung_> night
<wgrant> lamont: bohrium is sad.
<lamont> wgrant: stabbed
<wgrant> lamont: Thanks.
<wgrant> lamont: Do we know what's wrong with it?
<lamont> sadly, it's opaque
<wgrant> :(
<wgrant> It mostly happens during unpack.
* jtv changed the topic of #launchpad to:  http://launchpad.net/ : translations export to branches broken if branch owner has no contact email / preferred email set | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | Help contact: jtv |  Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<eugenesan> Hi, I am trying to re-upload package to ppa after deleting old one (hours ago), but still get rejects due to different content of .orig. tarball. Should I wait longer?
<persia> Won't make a difference.
<noodles775> eugenesan: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+faq/990
<micahg> eugenesan: no, you need to change the "upstream" version
<persia> If you change the original tarball, you need to reupload a newer version of the original tarball (regardless of deletion)
<eugenesan> that's sad...
<eugenesan> thanks anyway
<wildfire> hi
<wildfire> I'm having problems apport-collect
<wildfire> I am in a terminal
<wildfire> and unable to authenticate to launchpad (all default running 10.10)
<wildfire> suggestions?
<lifeless> wildfire: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/556927 ?
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 556927 in Launchpad Foundations "apport-collect: login to launchpad impossible in text mode using w3m (affected: 5, heat: 24)" [Low,Triaged]
<wildfire> lifeless: evening
<lifeless> wildfire: how are you
<lifeless> ?
<wildfire> I'm OK - back in London (for the moment)
<wildfire> and, yes, it appears that that is the same bug
<wildfire> (although launchpad did not detect any duplicate when I put in a summary)
<lifeless> elinks appears to work, are you able to install it ?
<wildfire> am installing it now
<lifeless> the more specific your summary the less likely lp is to find a dup
<lifeless> we need a radically better search engine; its on the TODO after 'make LP fast' (which is coming along quite nicely)
<wildfire> saw your blog post (and slides) about that
<wildfire> sounds like you are enjoying the team
<lifeless> wildfire: having a great time
<wildfire> lifeless: yes - working with elinks (although you have to login twice; once to login, the second time it'll realise you are logged in and then give you the oauth "allow access for apport-collect" prompt)
<lifeless> cool
<wildfire> bug updated to reflect those details too
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> avoir
* jtv changed the topic of #launchpad to: http://launchpad.net/ : translations export to branches broken if branch owner has no contact email / preferred email set | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | Help contact: - |  Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<boracasli> Exageration of adding translations that generated with auto-translation tools is a reason for suspension of users from Launchpad?
<boracasli> I asked the question to David Planella
<boracasli> dpm (David Planella), please Just Add a Comment for my comments in this question, its solved but i need more questions
<boracasli> https://answers.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/124118
<boracasli> david!
<boracasli> please answer my comments! because youre the admin of launchpad translations https://answers.launchpad.net/rosetta/+question/124118
<Chr|s> is launchpad ppa down?
<Chr|s> I keep on getting this error "W: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/c-korn/vlc/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404  Not Found"
<bigjools> Chr|s: it's because there is no PPA named "vlc" for c-korn
<bigjools> see http://ppa.launchpad.net/c-korn/
<Chr|s> hmm this happens when I try to add the medibuntu repository
<Chr|s> well when I add the key, using "wget -q http://packages.medibuntu.org/medibuntu-key.gpg -O- | sudo apt-key add - && sudo apt-get update"
<Chr|s> so what other way can I get the key if I am unable to add it?
<bigjools> Chr|s: the medibuntu instructions refer to a non-existent PPA I'm afraid
<Chr|s>  hmm
 * mpt realizes that Launchpad Bugs pages have a "Bugs with patches" link but not a "Bugs with branches" link
<mpoirier> I just created a group on Freenode but made a typo - how do I delete it ?
<Chr|s> mpoirier: question is better asked in #freenode
<Gibby> how do i make dput not upload the source .orig.tar.gz
<natschil> Is launchpad.net down?
<mgedmin> natschil, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/launchpad.net
<natschil> mgedmin: thanks for the link
<natschil> mgedmin: though ironically, it doesn't work because I'm in a country where google blocks things and the site has something to do with google (in Sudan)
<mgedmin> hm
<mgedmin> well, launchpad.net is up for me
<natschil> mgedmin: ok, must be some other problem then, maybe with my browser or network connection
<tgm4883> I have a question due to the amd64 PPA builds being so backed up
<tgm4883> Our project (mythbuntu) does daily builds for our packages. The builds apparently are taking so long that by the time the next daily build uploads, the previous one hasn't built yet. This causes issues because the new build will supersede the old build. This is a problem because the old build never gets built, and the new build's timer gets reset (making the TTB ~24 hours)
<tgm4883> Since there isn't a way to have publishing dependencies, any chance a change can be made on LP side so that the build timer doesn't get reset for superseded builds?
<abentley> tgm4883, you're asking about binary builds, not source package recipe builds, right?
<tgm4883> well they aren't recipe builds, we upload source packages to the PPA and wait for LP to build them, but it's taking so long that they get superseded the next day
<tgm4883> effectively never building the package
<tgm4883> so talking about the binary builds never being available to users
<lfaraone> I'm trying to file a bug aginst "linux" in Ubuntu I created with "ubuntu-bug linux", but when I submit I'm getting an timeout.  ( Error ID: OOPS-1726C1818 )
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1726C1818
<lfaraone> I get a timeout on both Edge and regular.
<davidstrauss> How can I rename a project?
#launchpad 2010-09-23
<poolie> davidstrauss: i think you have to ask an admin to do it, by asking a question against /launchpad
<davidstrauss> ok
<Gibby> anyone getting timeout while trying to upload to LP?
<wgrant> Gibby: Looks OK to me.
<wgrant> What's the error message?
<Gibby> On the 7th file that is uploading I get [Errno 110] Connection timed out
<wgrant> Gibby: Why are there so many files?
<wgrant> There should normally be just three or four, unless you have multiple component orig tarballs.
<Gibby> i did a debuild with -sd b/c it kept trying to upload the orig.tar.gz
<wgrant> So there should be three files.
<wgrant> What are the other four?
<wgrant> It sounds like you're trying to upload binaries.
<wgrant> Make sure you're building with debuild -S.
<Gibby> so -S and not -sd?
<Gibby> there is a dsc a debian.tar.gz and then the .deb's
<wgrant> -sd is the opposite of -sa
<wgrant> You still need -S, otherwise it will build binaries too.
<wgrant> lamont: adare and ross seem to be fairly ill.,
<Gibby> ahh ok, let me retry
<Gibby> so debuild -kKEY -S -sd?
<wgrant> Gibby: That's right.
<Gibby> wgrant: thanks i will try it, getting the new sources
<Gibby> wgrant: that worked, but i had my dependencies wrong, i fixed them and tried uploading again but i get Package has already been uploaded to ppa Nothing more to do for
<wgrant> Gibby: You need to add a new changelog entry.
<Gibby> wgrant: hmm ok, i know there is a command for that, i just did dput with -f
<wgrant> Gibby: You need to run 'dch -i' in the source directory, and fill it in.
<wgrant> And set the version string properly.
<lamont> wgrant: this does not terribly surprise me... ppc doesn't really like current kernels. :(
<wgrant> lamont: Ah :(
<lamont> I'll see what can be done with them
<wgrant> Are they Lucidified yet?
<rryan> My bzr pushes are failing with a connection refused to bazaar.launchpad.net on port 22. Is Launchpad code hosting down?
<spiv> losa ping: bazaar.launchpad.net ssh port is refusing connectoins
<poolie> i'm seeing that too
<mwhudson> rryan: should be back now
<rryan> mwhudson : thanks
<fta> wgrant, bigjools: hi, just checked the API and it seems the stats are not populated yet.. any idea when the script will start running?
<wgrant> The LOSAs were emailed a couple of days ago.
<wgrant> I haven't seen a response, but it may have just not come to me.
<fta> wgrant, just wrote a sample script, i just need the stats now. any way to motivate a LOSA? a cookie maybe, a beer? ;)
<fta> maybe too early for that..
<fta> it sure is for me
<edakiri> It was said that launchpad was going to be undergoing UI changes that would affect font sizing.  Is that still happening?  or is it more stable now and time for bug reports?
<wgrant> edakiri: What issues are you seeing?
<edakiri> wgrant: wrong (too small) font size
<wgrant> edakiri: Where?
<edakiri> wgrant: many places
<edakiri> I'm looking in the bug reporting system
<wgrant> In the description, comments, or general text around the page?
<edakiri> wgrant: all of the above
<edakiri> also in blueprints
<ricotz> bigjools, hi, could you restart this build? https://edge.launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/unstable/+build/1967538
<wgrant> edakiri: Can you show me a screenshot?
<edakiri> wgrant: I could show you 2. a single screen shot would be meaningless because you would not know what my minimum usable font size without a second screen shot.  More directly addressing the problem, I may look at the CSS
<edakiri> In the 2nd screen shot, I could show you launchpad with the minimum size enforced.
<edakiri> Immediately visible in the CSS are things like:  .duplicate-details{font-size:90%}.extra-discreet{font-size:75%}
<edakiri> Which will sources of problems if they are relative to the user's base font size.
<edakiri> The only way the WWW author has to know the what size of type is well readable by a user is the default size selected by the user.
<wgrant> Indeed. Please file a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-web/+filebug
<soren> bazaar.launchpad.net seems down.
<soren> losa
<soren> ^
<Chex> soren: its a emergency outage, please see the topic item here: http://blog.launchpad.net/
<soren> ...and it's back. Thanks.
<soren> Oh.
<pombreda> hiya :) anyone knows where the file likned here  https://launchpad.net/rdf is gone? https://launchpad.net/@@/rdf/launchpad.owl ? somewhere in bzr? elsewhere? ie where is the launchpad rdf schema?
<pombreda> well found it : http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/db-devel/files/head%3A/lib/canonical/launchpad/rdfspec/
<pombreda> but in any case the link https://launchpad.net/@@/rdf/launchpad.owl is a dead link which is no good... especially since it is one link away from all projects pages
<alkisg> Just out of curiosity, when I upload a package to my ppa, I see "Currently building ... started 3 minutes ago", and five minutes later, I see "Currently building ... started 30 seconds ago". Why is that?
<alkisg> Is it because jobs with higher priority can cancel running builds from lower priority?
<mgedmin> maybe a time warp?
<alkisg> Nah, e.g. now it says "building in 2 hours"
<alkisg> It looks like running builds can be canceled by something
<alkisg> ...and finally, it was just build, it says it started 9 minutes ago.
<nemo> Sooo, is there a way around repeated timeout errors when reporting a bug?
<nemo> keeps happening to me. seems to be variable. someone else on #ubuntu+1 says he has no problems at all, w/ same server IPs
<nemo> yet others report same behaviour
<nemo> I've tried like 20 times over past few hours to submit this one bug, just to be sent to timeout error
<nemo> same thing happened w/ the one I filed a week ago
<sluimers> I'm trying to upload something to launchpad
<sluimers> but I get this error:
<sluimers> Uploading to my-ppa (via sftp to ppa.launchpad.net):
<sluimers>  ika-engine_0.63.735~0maverick1~ppa1.dsc: Permission denied (publickey).
<sluimers> Unable to connect to SSH host ppa.launchpad.net; EOF during negotiation
<nemo> hm
<nemo> you know. I think I'm going to automate hitting ctrl-r
<nemo> in this browser
<nemo> have it just resubmit every 2 minutes until it succeeds
<lifeless> nemo: are you reporting it with apport?
<nemo> yep
<lifeless> nemo: if the bug has lots of subscribers it will be https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/637854
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 637854 in Launchpad Bugs "DistributionSourcePackage:+filebug with lots of apport attachments times out (affected: 1, heat: 12)" [High,Triaged]
<lifeless> and no, hitting repeat is unlikely to work. its probably doing about 500 times as much work as it should.
<lifeless> We're working on a workaround.
<weather15> Hello Everyone
<weather15> Anyone have any ide as to why this branch can't be deleted? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~live-cd-creation/ubuntu/lucid/squid/production also the recipe attached to it can't be deleted
<jsackett> weather15 i just went to look and the branch was gone. fix it, i take it?
<weather15> It seems after I tried it for the 10th time
<weather15> Can this project be deleted? We had to stop work on it beause on an un for seen problem. https://edge.launchpad.net/squid-live
<weather15> We will not be able to contuine with the project
<nemo> lifeless: this is on creating a new bug
<nemo> lifeless: not on commenting on an existing one
<nemo> lifeless: last time around I just kept submitting the bug intermittently until it worked
<lifeless> nemo: yes, the bug I linked is about that.
<nemo> lifeless: hitting ctrl-r is basically the same thing I guess - I just didn't realise I could do it until someone in #ubuntu+1 told me
<nemo> lifeless: ah. that looks right
<nemo> lifeless: you know, I'd file by hand, but then someone just closes out the bug if I don't include apport data :-p
<deryck> nemo, you can file the bug and later add your apport data.
<nemo> that will work?
<deryck> if the bug is timing out as it tries to deal with the attachments, then yes, not supplying the attachments up front will work.
<nemo> I'd lose my looong description unfortunately, since I didn't think to save it, and !@#$ ubuntu overrode my firefox default where I have a text area saver even though I'd swear I already reset x-www-browser after installing chrome :-/
<deryck> If you were asking about how to add to a bug after the fact, see:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Adding%20Apport%20Debug%20Information%20to%20an%20Existing%20Launchpad%20Bug
<nemo> deryck: well, that would be handy actually.
<nemo> although it's more the description
<nemo> hm. maybe I can add a network traffic monitor
<nemo> oh. damn. https
 * nemo sighs. guess I'll just retype it
<deryck> that's a separate bug that we loose your description if the bug report fails and you hit the back button.
<nemo> yeah :-/
<deryck> bug 553946
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 553946 in Launchpad Bugs "JavaScript breaks ability to recover +filebug form data (affected: 11, heat: 36)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553946
<nemo> I have a firefox addon for that too. I just didn't notice apport had opened chrome :(
<nemo> well. I kinda noticed, just didn't think this would happen :)
<deryck> the form data bug is on my shortlist to fix.
<nemo> ah-hah. javascript. I knew I should have submitted it in w3m! :)
<nemo> oooh. since I'm here. this is a minor minor thing that would make such a big difference
<nemo> I would love it if you guys would tag each comment w/ an id
<nemo> <div id="number">
<nemo> then I could link people to comments in the context of the entire bug
<lifeless> there's a bug open for that
<nemo> you know, like in bugzilla
<lifeless> well
<nemo> lifeless: yeah. that's been an issue for years
<nemo> I resort to just telling people to search for it
<lifeless> if you want to link people to it, you need an anchor
<nemo> all it needs is an id
<nemo> lifeless: no. just need an id
<lifeless> don't you?
<nemo> you can link to any id since, well, HTML4? :)
<nemo> ages though. 10y+
<nemo> even IE6 supports it
<lifeless> I'm old school
<deryck> yeah, name or id works.
<deryck> ok, so I'm out.  Have a good one, everyone.
<nemo> lifeless: hell, if you're doing an XHTML1.1 page, that's *the* way to do it.
<nemo> cuts down on random elements too
<nemo> you'd think since you are tagging the comments w/ a number anyway, it'd be a very minor change to the HTML.  The only part that takes any effort is if you wanted a convenient link.  but people who know to add #cXXX could at least have the benefit immediately :)
<mgedmin> nemo, if you've got firebug, you can recover your description with it by seeing the contents of the request when you do ctrl-r
<nemo> mgedmin: well. that's the problem
<nemo> stupid thing was in chrome
<nemo> mgedmin: I have that text area saving addon already :)
<mgedmin> chromium has the equivalent of firebux, called the inspector, I think
<nemo> weird too, since I'd swear I reran update-alternatives immediately after I saw the chrome install had hijacked my browser
<nemo> mgedmin: hmmm
<mgedmin> and I think chromium is quite good about not deleting your unsubmitted textarea contents when you go back in history
<nemo> mgedmin: nope. I tried that already
<nemo> was all gone
<mgedmin> ouch
<nemo> not only that, it was one screen further back than in firefox
<mgedmin> what can be more irritating than a broken bug-reporting tool?
<nemo> back to the unmodified title
<nemo> hm. don't see a Net equiv in the chrome tool
<nemo> noooooo
<nemo> !@#$
<nemo> DAMN YOU
<nemo> whew. just went back. I can still go forward
<nemo> (activated "resource tracking")
<nemo> woot! there's my comment
 * nemo yayz
<nemo> thanks mgedmin
<nemo> mgedmin: (the damn you was at chromium, not you btw) :)
<sluimers> Unable to connect to SSH host ppa.launchpad.net; EOF during negotiation
<sluimers> whoops
<sluimers> wrong window
<davidstrauss> "Not Found": http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davidstrauss/helios-ca/helios-ca-shell/files
<davidstrauss> straussd@oxygen:~/Projects$ bzr co lp:~davidstrauss/helios-ca/helios-ca-shell
<davidstrauss> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davidstrauss/helios-ca/trunk/".
<davidstrauss> what's up? ^^^
<mwhudson> well at least it's consistent
<mwhudson> oh
<davidstrauss> consistent?
<mwhudson> sorry
<mwhudson> this will be a stacking issue i bet
<mwhudson> did you rename ~davidstrauss/helios-ca/trunk/ recently?
<davidstrauss> yes
<davidstrauss> well, in the last day or so
<mwhudson> easiest thing is to use lftp or something to edit the .bzr/branch/branch.conf in that branch to match
<poolie_> or use 'bzr reconfigure --stacked-on $NEW_LOCATION "
<poolie_> with -d to tell it the remote stacked branch
<poolie_> sorry about that
<davidstrauss> poolie, reconfigure doesn't have a -d option
<poolie_> sorry, 'reconfigure --stacked-on $new_stacked_location $stacked_branch'
<poolie_> no need for a -d
<davidstrauss> poolie, It's not clear what I'm supposed to stack it on. The normal LP URLs aren't working.
<davidstrauss> straussd@oxygen:~$ bzr reconfigure --stacked-on=lp:~davidstrauss/helios-ca/helios-ca-native lp:helios
<davidstrauss> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/helios/".
<davidstrauss> nor this:
<davidstrauss> straussd@oxygen:~$ bzr reconfigure --stacked-on=bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davidstrauss/helios-ca/helios-ca-native lp:helios
 * poolie_ looks
 * davidstrauss swapped trunk with another branch
<poolie_> what is the new name of the thing that used to be trunk?
<davidstrauss> poolie, bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davidstrauss/helios-ca/helios-ca-native
<poolie_> oh, so there are two branches and you swapped them
<poolie_> or more precisely, the one that was trunk is no longer trunk
<poolie_> and the other one is instead
<davidstrauss> poolie, yes
<mwhudson> oh heck, the way lp: name resolution changed _definitely_ means that --stacked-on lp:foo won't work
<mwhudson> hmm
<mwhudson> or maybe it will
 * mwhudson experiments
<poolie_> i think that means you want reconfigure --stacked-on ...-native ....-shell
<davidstrauss> poolie, mwhudson: I'm not sure what I need to run.
<poolie_> <poolie_> i think that means you want reconfigure --stacked-on ...-native ....-shell
<poolie_> i mean 'bzr reconfigure --stacked-on bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davidstrauss/helios-ca/helios-ca-native bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davidstrauss/helios-ca/helios-ca-shell'
<davidstrauss> poolie, I've already tried that exact command before.
<davidstrauss> poolie, "bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~davidstrauss/helios-ca/trunk/"."
<poolie_> and it failed with what?
<poolie_> can you pastebin the traceback from ~/.bzr.log?
<davidstrauss> poolie, http://pastie.org/private/itczl5kup9aartj0jfciq
#launchpad 2010-09-24
<poolie_> if you have a local copy of them perhaps the fastest way out is to rename-away the branch on launchpad and re-push
<wgrant> poolie: Maybe we want to provide a little script which goes in and edits branch.conf
<wgrant> SInce doesn't reconfigure need the branch to not be broken?
<sluimers> Hey there, I reinstalled my linux computer and now I lost my sftp key for PPA
<sluimers> How do I get my SSH key back?
<wgrant> Unless you backed up the private key, that is impossible.
<wgrant> That's the point :)
<wgrant> If you didn't back it up, you'll need to create a new one and replace the old one on LP.
<sluimers> ah, I need to replace it
<sluimers> thanks wgrant
<sluimers> ...I made a new key, but I'm still getting the same error
<wgrant> sluimers: What's the error?
<sluimers>   ika-engine_0.63.737~0maverick1~ppa1.dsc: Permission denied (publickey).
<sluimers> Unable to connect to SSH host ppa.launchpad.net; EOF during negotiation
<sluimers> E: Error uploading file.
<wgrant> You uploaded your new id_rsa.pub to Launchpad?
<sluimers> yes
<mwhudson> sluimers: can you run "ssh bazaar.launchpad.net" ?
<sluimers> nope, same problem
<sluimers>  Permission denied (publickey).
<wgrant> Has your username changed?
<mwhudson> well, that's good in some sense
<mwhudson> (the two use the same authentication backend)
<mwhudson> sluimers: is your local username the same as that on launchpad?
<sluimers> no
<wgrant> Was it before?
<sluimers> My name on launchpad is r-m-sluimers and my desktop name is rogier
<sluimers> no
<mwhudson> sluimers: try ssh r-m-sluimers@bazaar.launchpad.net then
<sluimers> Oh that works now
<mwhudson> cool
<sluimers> I added the config file
<sluimers> so it works now
<mwhudson> so you need to tell dput about your use name
<mwhudson> ah ok
<sluimers> ahhh...
<sluimers> no wait, it's there already
<sluimers> login = r-m-sluimers
<wgrant> ssh r-m-sluimers@ppa.launchpad.net
<sluimers> Permission denied (publickey).
<sluimers> only r-m-sluimers@bazaar.launchpad.net works
<wgrant> That's odd. It works OK for me.
<sluimers> What's the name of your key file? Maybe I need to enter something in dput that will lead to it?
<mwhudson> sluimers: you could try ssh -v  r-m-sluimers@ppa.launchpad.net and see what's going on
<wgrant> Mine's just the usual id_rsa
<sluimers> That's what I thought.. I either need to rename my key file back to id_rsa or tell dput something else
<sluimers> ... I'll just rename it back to id_rsa
<sluimers> works now
<sluimers> :)
<sluimers> hurray \o/
<sluimers> thanks mwhudson and wgrant
 * sluimers dances
<sluimers> see you later guys
<mwhudson> huh surprising, but cool that you've got it working
<progone> any admins on?
<poolie> progone: what's up?
<progone> I have some personal info I needed deleted out of an entry
<maxb> I have builds bouncing between buildds, can someone slap the buildfarm in whatever manner is required?
<poolie> losa ping ^^
<poolie> oh i see you already did
<spm> :-)
<mdke> is there anything that can be done about a user who keeps (unintentionally, I imagine) reporting the same bug over and over again? I have about 10 duplicates from the same user. I have emailed them to ask them to stop but it hasn't worked.
<fta2> bigjools, hi. when i dput in ftp to upload.u.c, i get ~100Mbps, when i dput in sftp to ppa.l.n, i just get ~10Mbps (but from the same box, i can sftp to other places at >100Mbps)
<bigjools> losa ^ any clues?
<bigjools> fta2: is that a PPA upload?
<fta2> yes, chromium
<bigjools> fta2: I said to upload to ppa.l.n please
<fta2> bigjools, i do now, but it's way slower
<mthaddon> fta2: how about upload speed to ppa.l.n via ftp?
<fta2> mthaddon, no idea
<mthaddon> well I think that would be a first troubleshooting step
<fta2> sure, will try that for my next upload, i have a bunch of upgrades to do today
<fta2> (will hammer the builders i'm afraid)
<bigjools> yay :/
<fta2> 2010-09-24 linux/stable (6.0.472.62 -> 6.0.472.63)
<fta2> 2010-09-24 linux/beta (6.0.472.62 -> 6.0.472.63)
<fta2> 2010-09-24 linux/dev (7.0.517.8 -> 7.0.517.13)
<fta2> + maverick
<fta2> i dropped jaunty from all my dailies btw
<fta2> mthaddon, bigjools: 96.6Mbps in ftp/anon toward ppa.l.n
<bigjools> when we get the download stats working it will be interesting to see which of your builds are getting used
<fta2> (probably more but i have a 100M switch somewhere)
<geser> bigjools: how hard is it to make the buildds recognizes DEPWAITs in maverick again? they are all FTBFS now because of an output change in apt (according to wgrant)
<fta2> bigjools, i have a script ready; i just need you to populate the stats
<bigjools> roger
<mthaddon> ok, so it's not the pipe, it's most likely sftp slowing things down
<bigjools> we found  lot of bugs
<FloSoft> Hi, can i let launchpad mirror an subversion repository into an bazaar branch?
<bigjools> I wonder if it's using a different route to get to the box
<fta2> bigjools, any idea how long it will take? thought it was just a matter of finding a losa to run a script
<bigjools> StevenK: when you have a sec, would you mind checking to see if you can get the sftp server to go faster than 10 Mb/s on a loopback
<fta2> maybe sftp hammers the cpu on the other side (definitely not on mine)
<bigjools> fta2: I'll look next week, but I expect I'll be fixing the buildd-manager first
 * bigjools -> sprint, AFK
<fta2> ok
<mpt> I'm having a connection problem with Launchpad
<mpt> Every page loads fine, *except* when I click a "Delete Bug Watch" button, then I always get a "Please try again" error
<persia> That doesn't sound like a connection problem.  That sounds like a typo.
<mpt> oh, hm, apparently I reported this as bug 575911 in May. I have no memory of that at all.
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 575911 in Launchpad Bugs "Trying to delete a bug watch results in a non-OOPSing IntegrityError (affected: 2, heat: 3)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/575911
<jkakar> Do I need to do anything special to create a project group or do I just complete the normal 'Add a new project' workflow?
* mars changed the topic of #launchpad to: http://launchpad.net/ : translations export to branches broken if branch owner has no contact email / preferred email set | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | Help contact: mars |  Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<Ddorda> hey guys, i'm having troubles with my username in lp
<Ddorda> for some reasons it says my nick is d-dorda, while i've always been ddorda
<mars> Hi Ddorda
<Ddorda> when i tried changing it, i got an error that the username is being used in another team?!
<Ddorda> mars: hey there :)
<mars> looking now
<Ddorda> mars: many thanks
<mars> Ddorda, where does it incorrectly say your nick is 'd-dorda'?
<mars> That is a real user, but I assume it is not you: https://edge.launchpad.net/~d-dorda
<Ddorda> it is me
<mars> Ddorda, ok, and this user? https://edge.launchpad.net/~ddorda
<Ddorda> me
<Ddorda> i don't know any more Ddorda's in that world :)\
<mars> Heh :)
<mars> you never know - OSS is quite cosmopolitan :)
<mars> sinzui, ^ this may be a problem for your team - split accounts?
<Ddorda> i know, but i'm 100% it's me, it's just something wrong i've done made thi split
<Ddorda> wth? now it's become to me again
<Ddorda> this is extremely odd
<mars> Ddorda, sinzui is the expert on these matters.  Give him a few minutes - if he isn't around right now, I may ask you to file a Launchpad question about it so his team can look at it later
<mars> Ddorda, it usually has something to do with Ubuntu SSO interacting with Launchpad
<Ddorda> mars: i see. okay, i'll be patient.
<Ddorda> for now
<Ddorda> ;P
<rvalyi> Hello, I'm a launchpad mailing list admin and we got some confidential data posted in a mail, we would like to have it removed from the archive, any Launchpad admin out there that can help me to do that please?
<Odd_Bloke> mars: ^
<mars> rvalyi, could you please post a question to https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad?  I can then hand it to the appropriate team
<rvalyi> mars: yes, I'll do,
<rvalyi> however, I prefer not to point the exact messages to be removed in a public forum
<rvalyi> so I'll ask help here first
<rvalyi> (I mean here  https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad )
<rvalyi> thanks
<rvalyi> mars: sorry, I actually forgot to send you the pointer, here is my question https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/126696
<mars> thanks rvalyi, I'll send it along
<mars> rvalyi, it looks like it is already being handled
<mars> (thanks sinzui!)
<rvalyi> mars: yep, thank you very much
<prettyrobots> gpg: skipped "Alan Gutierrez <alan@prettyrobots.com>": secret key not available
<prettyrobots> I'm getting that at the end of my build.
<prettyrobots> ow do I make my key available? I can sign from the command line, with a prompt for my password.
<prettyrobots> debsign -k"Alan Gutierrez" also works.
<persia> Yeah, but that also indicates you are sponsoring a package you didn't do, which has interesting effects when you upload it.
<prettyrobots> persia: It is one that I built.
<prettyrobots> Myself for PPA.
<prettyrobots> Node.js.
<james_w> prettyrobots: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Uploading?action=show&redirect=DeveloperGuide/Uploading#Signing%20the%20package
<prettyrobots> I'm trying to package moduldes for Node.js.
<prettyrobots> They are installed from npm.
<prettyrobots> A package manager, so no tarballs.
<prettyrobots> How does that change my process, any suggestions?
<prettyrobots> So I uploaded a package to Launchpad.
<prettyrobots> And it said the signature was okay, uploaded, and then done.
<prettyrobots> But it doesn't appear in the PPA page.
<prettyrobots> Does it take some time?
<prettyrobots> Oh. I got an email saying:
<prettyrobots> Unable to find distroseries: unstable
<prettyrobots> Keep trying.
<ChrisBuchholz> Hey guys. Is it possible to "starre" a project on launchpad? Would make it easier to keep track on things
* mars changed the topic of #launchpad to: http://launchpad.net/ : translations export to branches broken if branch owner has no contact email / preferred email set | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | Help contact: - |  Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
#launchpad 2010-09-25
<MaximLevitsky> Launchpad bug reporting system is down
<MaximLevitsky> When it will be back?
<MaximLevitsky> :-(
<poolie> MaximLevitsky: really
<poolie> MaximLevitsky: what in particular is wrong?
<MaximLevitsky> Try this
<MaximLevitsky> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+filebug?no-redirect
<MaximLevitsky> I enter a bug description
<MaximLevitsky> And hit next
<MaximLevitsky> it never competes
<persia> Works for me
<MaximLevitsky> don't know why
<MaximLevitsky> for example going to
<MaximLevitsky> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search?text=pulseaudio
<MaximLevitsky> also gives me Timeout Error
<MaximLevitsky> Its not my ISP, is it?
 * MaximLevitsky switches ISPs
<MaximLevitsky1> No, doesn't help
<MaximLevitsky1> Its is really launchpad failure
<prettyrobots> I uploaded my first package and it didn't build.
<prettyrobots> It is missing dependencies.
<MaximLevitsky1> as for timeout error, its OOPS-1728D2291
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1728D2291
<prettyrobots> How do I check for dependencies during package development?
<prettyrobots> I can't seem to to get pbuilder to work. fakeroot seems to fail too.
<persia> prettyrobots, #ubuntu-packaging is a much better channel for that kind of question.
<prettyrobots> Okay.
<persia> MaximLevitsky1, Looks like there's nobody officially organised to review OOPSes right now.  Sounds like a timeout issue, and strange that it works for me and not for you.
<persia> That said, if you get an OOPS, you have definitely managed to crash launchpad.
<Ddorda> hey guys, i'm having troubles with my username in lp. i have 2 usernames d-dorda and ddorda, both are mine. i don't remember i ever registered twice and don't want to have 2 users. is it possible to merge these 2 to ~ddorda which is the original user?
<MaximLevitsky1> persia: whats funny is that I was able to report a bug via  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?no-redirect
<persia> And I was able to open a bug against pulse.
<persia> Maybe try entering a different bug subject, and then change it on the second page?
<MaximLevitsky1> persia: tried that
<MaximLevitsky1> I tried 1234
<MaximLevitsky1> But bugreports work fine through  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug?no-redirect
<persia> And got the same timeout?
<MaximLevitsky1> These are 2 different issues
<MaximLevitsky1> I get timeout on package searth
<persia> Well, so that you can move on with your day, file it against ubuntu, and then assign it to the right package (the folk in #ubuntu-bugs can help if you get stuck)
<MaximLevitsky1> When I fill bug, the circle just keeps rotating
<persia> Probably also worth filing a bug against launchpad describing your experience in detail
<MaximLevitsky1> The thing is that it did work this morning
 * persia isn't sure
<upd> hei, i need info for ubuntu, i mean for gnome, ther is a clock with weather, now wher are thes translations for wheather name, are on launchpad or. are recived via source for my country ?
<upd> anyone ?
<persia> It's likely to be a combination.  I'm kinda guessing, but I suspect that the source code has translations that get stripped by pkg-strip-translations, and then pushed to Rosetta, and then pulled into language-pack-gnome-${LANG}
<persia> You might find #ubuntu-devel to be a better channel to get a real answer, but based on other traffic there, I think the person who understood everything about how that worked isn't so active anymore (plus wasn't usually around on weekends anyway).
<poolie> yes that filebug thing works for me too
<mgedmin> Ddorda, does https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/Merging answer your question?
<Ddorda> mgedmin: indeed, it anser*ed* :)
<poolie> hi marius
 * mgedmin waves
<mgedmin> incidentally that page I linked here has a broken image
<mgedmin> 404 for https://help.launchpad.net/htdocs/lp20/img/icon-info.png
<Ddorda> guys, i have a bug report and not sure where to put it, can you guide me? the mailing lists archive doesn't support non-latin languages!
 * mgedmin doesn't care enough to file a bug and considers his open-source-user's duty fulfilled by mentioning it in #launchpad
<poolie> Ddorda: https:?/bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
<poolie> Ddorda: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
<poolie> please include an example
<Ddorda> poolie: sure thing
<Ddorda> thanks!
<poolie> mgedmin: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/647228
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 647228 in Launchpad itself "broken moin icons in help wiki (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<mgedmin> thanks!
<Ddorda> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/647232
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 647232 in Launchpad itself "Mailing list archive does not support non-latin languages (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<poolie> Ddorda: so it looks like they're ok in the individual messages, but broken on the summary page?
<Ddorda> they are broken completely in the archive, in both the messages itself and the summery
<poolie> that's strange
<poolie> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-il/msg00033.html looks ok to me
<poolie> (i can't read hebrew but it looks like hebrew)
<poolie> but some other pages are x'd out
<Ddorda> indeed
<Ddorda> it is fine, weird
<poolie> thanks for reporting it
<Ddorda> poolie: sure, i hope someone will have time to fix it soon
<Ddorda> and if it will be possible to fix what was already saved, it will be even better! :D
<poolie> i think the originals are still saved
<Ddorda> i hope so :P
<upd> i get it it's in libgweather anyway thanks, by..
<CarlFK> "You have used your Single Sign On ID to access a site which is not recognised by Launchpad Login Service: http://us.pycon.org/2011/openid/"  what does it take to get a site recognised ?
<poolie> hm i guess file a bug against /launchpad
<poolie> i don't think that warning necessarily indicates a problem
<wgrant> poolie: SSO is canonical-identity-provider
<wgrant> You could file a question there.
<wgrant> But it should let you through regardless, just with a warning.
<CarlFK> it does let me though - I guess fist I should wonder what "recognised" really means
<wgrant> I'm not sure why it warns.
<wgrant> It doesn't seem terrible useful.
<CarlFK> I am assuming some sites are, so what makes them special
<wgrant> The OpenID provider allows consumers to be whitelisted so they can retrieve privileged data (like email addresses and team memberships).
<CarlFK> is the whitelist per user or system wide?
<poolie> system wide, i think
<poolie> at any rate there's no way to change it
<poolie> i'm not sure why it doesn't just let you say whether you trust it or not
<CarlFK> it does let the site use SSO for that site, I was just wondering if there was some reason I would want it recognised, and what that actually meant
<CarlFK> no biggie - just wondering
<H4Root> !vhost cia.gov
<H4Root> how do i get a vhost?
<cheater99> hi
<cheater99> i am new to launchpad, i have just tried checking something out and the transfer was awesomely slow - is this usual? is there something i can do about it?
<wgrant> cheater99: Did you get a warning suggesting that you run 'bzr launchpad-login'?
<cheater99> yes
<cheater99> is it faster when i do that?
<cheater99> let me try it
<wgrant> That should be substantially faster.
<wgrant> It uses a smart protocol over SSH, rather than dumb HTTP transfers.
<cheater99> mhm
<LinuxJedi> hey guys, I'm getting timeouts when trying to change bug statuses
<wgrant> LinuxJedi: What's the error message? Does it have an OOPS ID?
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: (Error ID: OOPS-1729O825)
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1729O825
<wgrant> LinuxJedi: Which bug, and what were you changing?
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/drizzle/+bug/646187
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 646187 in Drizzle elliott "MySQL privilege table errors still in InnoDB (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Medium,New]
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: status and milestone
<wgrant> LinuxJedi: Separately, using the edit button next to each item?
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: setting to Fix Committed and Drizzle 2010-09-27
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: separately and tried via. the arrow next to "Elliott" too
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: the latter gave me that OOPS ID
<wgrant> LinuxJedi: Can you try it on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/drizzle/+bug/646187? edge is running the latest version of the code -- it may be better-behaved in this case.
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 646187 in Drizzle elliott "MySQL privilege table errors still in InnoDB (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Medium,New]
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: (Error ID: OOPS-1729EB369)
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1729EB369
<wgrant> The OOPSes should tell us what's wrong. But I can't see them, so we'll have to wait for someone who can.
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: ok thanks, no rush.  I'm only going too be working on a few bugs today
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: haha, now https://edge.launchpad.net/drizzle is timing out too ;)
<LinuxJedi> (Error ID: OOPS-1729EB372)
<ubot5`> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1729EB372
<wgrant> Now that is odd.
<wgrant> It renders in about a second for me.
<LinuxJedi> ah, that worked on refresh
<wgrant> And the timeout is several times that.
<LinuxJedi> I'm sure it just hates me for some reason ;)
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: huh, changing bug statuses has started working too.  Must have been some glitch
<wgrant> LinuxJedi: Sounsd like the DB might have been overloaded for a while.
<LinuxJedi> makes sense
<LinuxJedi> wgrant: needs to run on Drizzle ;)
<wgrant> Heh.
<geser> wgrant: I see that the FTBFS page lists DEPWAITs again. So the regex got fixed?
<wgrant> geser: It's a different type of depwait.
<wgrant> Versioned depwait still works OK.
<wgrant> It's if the package is entirely unavailable that things break.
<maxb> Huh, my daily builds alternate persona has more karma than I do :-/
<LinuxJedi> maxb: I find some things weigh much heavier than others.  Our project manager's karma skyrocketed in a week when he touched a bunch of blueprints for example
<LinuxJedi> maxb: I don't think anyone on the drizzle project takes karma seriously anyway
<oubiwann> rockstar: hey man, project group time again :-)
<oubiwann> rockstar: but I've forgotten who I talk to, in order to get a project group created...
<ThomasB2k> Hello. I've just built a debian package and I'm trying to dput the .changes file into my PPA. I keep getting an error that I've googled and I'm not getting any results for. "Rejected: Source/binary (i.e. mixed) uploads are not allowed."
<ThomasB2k> I have no idea what is wrong.
<ThomasB2k> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
<maxb> ThomasB2k: You upload source packages *only* to PPAs
<maxb> apparently you're trying to upload a binary as well
<ari-tczew> can I review listed revisions to stricte file on bazaar?
<ThomasB2k> Okay, so what do I do, maxb. This is only the second time I've ever done this, and the first time I was given a walkthrough.
<ari-tczew> ok I got it: "view changes to this file"
<maxb> ThomasB2k: use the -S argument when building the source package
<ThomasB2k> okay, thank you!
<ThomasB2k> really maxb, thank you so much!
<ThomasB2k> it was accepted!
<terrycojones> I'm playing with launchpadlib for the first time & have managed to log in, get a Launchpad instance back & can see the 'bugs' attr on it, get bugs[1], etc - i.e., all the stuff in the docs.  I'm wondering how to filter the bugs list to get a subset of interest.
<maxb> terrycojones: https://launchpad.net/+apidoc tells all the gory details
<terrycojones> maxb: hi - thanks! i found my way there with help from jkakar.
#launchpad 2010-09-26
<nonowe> Hello all
<nonowe> Is launchpad the centralized way to contribute to Ubuntu development ?
 * MTecknology sits patiently awaitng to see package received for packaging in ppa
<MTecknology> nonowe: no - but it's darned close
<spiv> nonowe: I'm not certain what you mean by that.  It is a tool for helping Ubuntu developers (and translators, etc) collaborate.
<spiv> (As well as other open source projects, of course)
<nonowe> ok
<AnAnt> Hello, what's wrong with launchpad ?
<AnAnt> I mean the bug reporting fails
<zaytsev> hi folks. is it normal that ppa builds take about 40 minutes to get published?
<zaytsev> Also it's quite funny to see the package switching between virtual machines. It's not quite clear to me why this is happening
<zaytsev> Damn, it's so painful to backport. Imagine backporting a program which has deps on 3 libraries and each of them has deps on 2 libraries.
<zaytsev> That is I can't build a library until all deps are published, but at the same time, higher-level deps are also unbuildable.
<kklimonda> zaytsev: that's why, most of the time, we don't backport packages that require new dependencies. It's hard and unpredictable
<zaytsev> kklimonda, it's not too hard, it's just that if the TAT is so slow it's a pita
<zaytsev> argh! now it's speex. yet another 40 minutes of waiting time.
<crimsun> zaytsev: please tell me that you're using prevu, at least.
<zaytsev> crimsun, hmmm... ok, I won't tell you. I didn't even know that it exists.
<zaytsev> hmmm, prevu seems to be a kind on pdebuild
<crimsun> the idea is to apply for all the backports in one pass
<zaytsev> I'm now sure how it will help me to backport meaty stuff from maverick to hardy for instance, while they almost always need some stupid minor changes, such as source format 1.0, add quilt to the build-deps, remove quilt-dh (thanks to those, opposing to dh7 backporting to hardy!!!) etc.
<zaytsev> I wonder if it can print a tree of stuff to backport then, I do it quicky and bingo =)
<zaytsev> Ok, now speex is there of course without any problems, but wait, I have to wait for 40 more minutes to restart the build =(
<saper> hm, getting https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/28068 for weeks already
#launchpad 2011-09-19
<mrevell> Hi
<wgrant> In a few minutes we'll be down for a couple of minutes of database upgrades.
<mabac> Hi gang. Lots and lots of oopses atm. Are we in the middle of a service window? OOPS-2088DX1207
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=2088DX1207
<wgrant> mabac: Yep, should be back in 20s or so.
<mabac> wgrant, ok thanks
<wgrant> mabac: And we're back.
<mabac> wgrant, extremely bad timing on my part then. :)
<wgrant> mabac: It was much longer than we'd expected.
<wgrant> Nearly three minutes :/
<wgrant> But should all be fine now.
<tjaalton> hey, can you force-unsubscribe a person from a bug? AdrianChallinor is using a broken mailserver which is spamming bug 771788 with out-of-office autoreplies
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 771788 in jockey (Ubuntu) "nVidia driver activated and apparently being used but reported as not being used by jockey-gtk" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/771788
<RAOF> tjaalton: Haven't they already been unsubscribed?
<tjaalton> RAOF: doesn't seem like it
* benji changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: benji | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<bjsnider> can someone with authority intercede and stop iridium from running around in circles trying to build a ppa package?
<sladen> If I have a page such as  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/ubuntu-font-family-sources/view/head:/Ubuntu-R.ttf
<sladen> is there a handy way to convert that straight into a download link
<sladen> eg. I'd like to be able to send people   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/ubuntu-font-family-sources/view/head:/Ubuntu-R.ttf/+download
<sladen> or something like that
<sladen> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/ubuntu-font-family-sources/download/head:/Ubuntu-R.ttf  doesn't work either
<james_w> sladen, does http://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/ubuntu/ubuntu-font-family-sources/download/head:/ubuntur.ttf-20100928071143-jx8zh0fl52889bxt-26/Ubuntu-R.ttf  from "download file" on that page work for you?
<sladen> james_w: it does.  But it specific to that particular revision of a file.  Which defeats the point
<james_w> sladen, are you sure?
<james_w> it contains "head:" as the revision
<sladen> james_w: and a datestamp
<james_w> that's the file id
<sladen> james_w: I will experiment
<sladen> james_w: seems to work.  How crackful
<james_w> sladen, why?
<james_w> seems fine to me
<ScottSanbar> Hi, everyone! I have a question.  I have a package in launchpad that I have created from scratch.  It is named (unfortunately) hello, but is not Gnu Hello but my own custom package (unpublished - I will change the name shortly).  On my Ubuntu Natty PC it creates a .deb that includes the binary, man page and docs files.  However, on the PPA recipe build, it only creates an abbreviated version of the /usr/share/hello/doc directory.  Wh
<sladen> ScottSanbar: truncated at "directory.  Wh"
<ScottSanbar> My launchpad recipe build does not contain the binary and man page files but it does when I build on my PC: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/80346820/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-i386.hello_1.0-0~12~natty1_BUILDING.txt.gz  here are the files for the package: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~scott-sanbar/hello/main/files
<james_w> ScottSanbar, you are building using the recipe on your PC?
<ScottSanbar> james_w: no - I build using debuild on my pc, recipe build on launchpad.
<ScottSanbar> james_w: I did not know you could do a recipe build on a pc
<james_w> you can
<ScottSanbar> link?
<james_w> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/GettingStarted#Trying_it_out
<ScottSanbar> james_w: thanks
<bdrung> the daily build system do not have enough ram to build daily builds of eclipse: https://code.launchpad.net/~eclipse-team/+archive/debian-package-dailies/+recipebuild/86099
<yofel> bdrung: see bug 746822
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 746822 in Launchpad itself "fails to build recipe with "bzr: out of memory"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/746822
* benji changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<bdrung> thanks
<Ursinha> hello launchpadders
<Ursinha> I wonder if I just hit a bug: when I search for ubuntu/oneiric bugs, with ubuntu-server as bug supervisor, it returns nothing
<Ursinha> if I search all ubuntu bugs, with ubuntu-server as bug supervisor, it returns all bugtasks in packages ubuntu-server is a bug supervisor
<lifeless> Ursinha: do they have series tasks?
<lifeless> Ursinha: can you give me a couple of urls to compare, for instance
<Daviey> Ursinha: it shouldn't matter, but i assume you are using anon.. i saw the same thing, and it went away with auth'd login.
<Daviey> try that to compare.
#launchpad 2011-09-20
<AfC> A build failed in a PPA. I think I've identified the problem, have made a fix here, and need to resubmit the build. Do I need to bump the version number of the package (eg ...~natty1 to ...~natty2)?
<AfC> Since ...~natty1 never built [there], I'm wondering if the bump is necessary. Of course the ...natty1_source.ppa.upload is here, so I guess the question is removing that & reuploading correct?
<bigjools> you need to bump the version
<bigjools> don't kid yourself it's the same version if you make changes
<dholbach> hey
<dholbach> can somebody tell me why the lp:xwax upstream code import fails?
<apw> OOPS-2089CJ49 -- can anyone tell me if there is any point in waiting and retrying with this oops, or am i just dead
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=2089CJ49
<gmb> https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: gmb | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<nigelb> gmb: I'm sure you missed the /topic bit :P
* gmb changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: member:gmb | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<gmb> nigelb: Good catch :)
<danilos> dholbach, I wonder if that code import is failing due to bug 854647? jelmer probably knows better, though :)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 854647 in Launchpad itself "[http] double slash in request causes 404 for valid repositories" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854647
<danilos> dholbach, jelmer: referring to lp:xwax, fwiw :)
<jelmer> ah, yes
<jelmer> lp:xwax is indeed failing because of bug 854647
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 854647 in Launchpad itself "[http] double slash in request causes 404 for valid repositories" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854647
<jelmer> I have a MP up that fixes it
<dholbach> thanks jelmer - you rock
<dholbach> thanks danilos - you rock too! :)
<wookey> My duploads aren't working:
<wookey> [ Uploading job insserv_1.14.0-2cross1_source
<wookey> insserv_1.14.0-2cross1_source.changes 1.2 kBdupload fatal error: Can't upload insserv_1.14.0-2cross1_source.changes: Data connection already open, starting transfer
<wookey> Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied. at /usr/bin/dupload line 558
<wookey> Does that mean anything to anyone?
<wookey> line 558 is the ftp-upload function
<wookey> gpg --verify says the signature is good
<Laney> ftpâkeyserver communication borked, your upload should work anyway
<wookey> how long should I wait for an email saying 'upload worked/failed'? it's had a few mins.
<bigjools> wookey: a few minutes
<wookey> OK. I waited a while, did it all again and no complaints this time
* gmb changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<jhobbs> is there a way to get emails for blueprint updates for a project?
<bullgard4> I wonder what an "Apport retracing service" is. I found it in Launchpad on a bug report as an option.
<ScottSanbar> Hi, All!  Help! Google does not help! Here are the buildlog and files location for a recipe that does not install the binary or man files only the doc files for a package I created called hello.  The same package builds fine when I use debuild on my PC:  https://code.launchpad.net/~scott-sanbar/+recipe/hello-1.0-daily http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~scott-sanbar/hello/main/files
<ScottSanbar> This is the same package I mentioned yesterday but with the shebang added back into the rules file as suggested on IRC which got rid of some warnings but did not add in the missing files in the .deb
<james_w> ScottSanbar, building either the source package created by the recipe, or the branch directly doesn't produce a working deb here
<james_w> so it seems that you have something in your environment that is making it work when it "shouldn't"
<james_w> my guess is because you locally have files that aren't in the branch that were the result of running auto*
<james_w> because the branch doesn't contain the configure script, and debhelper doesn't know how to do anything with it
<mwhudson> ScottSanbar: try using pbuilder/pdebuild instead
<mwhudson> ScottSanbar: it's a bit of a pain to set up, but well worth it
<poolie> hi
<poolie> does anyone actually like the 'translation template imported' mails?
<RAOF> poolie: No.  Who is their intended audience?
<poolie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/855150
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 855150 in Launchpad itself "excessive translation import template mails (also poor phrasing)" [Low,Triaged]
<poolie> i don't know
<poolie> i would speculate the logic was "someone might want to know about this, so we'll send mail"
<poolie> but it's not necessarily a good tradeoff
<poolie> RAOF, and i see it also sends mail to cancelled accounts
<RAOF> Win!
#launchpad 2011-09-21
<ScottSanbar> james_w:  thanks so much for going to the trouble of downloading and trying to build my package.  I will first look into missing files that did not make it into bazaar because of my .bzrignore (you can look at that as well, if you so desire, to see what i have on my PC that is not in bazaar).  I will then start looking into my build environment to see how it might differ.
<ScottSanbar> mwhudson: My next step in the Ubuntu tutorial I am following is to go on to using pbuilder, but I was trying to learn and get working things with debuild as a learning exercise.  Thanks for your insight, and I will definitely do that as I progress in my learning exercise, but still want to try and figure out what is going on with debuild for now to understand, unless it just gets to be a total drag.
<mwhudson> ScottSanbar: well, it's very likely what james_w says, there is something about your environment that is preventing your build from working
<ScottSanbar> mwhudson:  OK, thanks - I will try to track that down - does using pbuilder negate that problem partially or completely?
<mwhudson> completely
<ScottSanbar> mwhudson:  OK, great - I have already set up chroot and all that in preparation for pbuilder (I think that is what all that effort was for, right?)
<mwhudson> ScottSanbar: it could certainly be related, i don't know which tutorial you're following :-)
<mwhudson> pbuilder uses a chroot, for sure
<ScottSanbar> mwhudson:  I am following the Ubuntu Packaging Wiki:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
<ScottSanbar> mwhudson:  I hope it is leading me in the right direction ... ;)
<ScottSanbar> *:)
<mwhudson> i'd hope it is too :-)
<ScottSanbar> mwhudson:  Also, I have looked at a broad variety of sites and tutorials, etc. including many of the Gnu Autotools tutorials and manuals and have become aware of Debian sites I am now going to start reading.
<ScottSanbar> mwhudson:  My build environment was not created from the Ubuntu Wiki, but from a Hello, World example from the Gnu Automake documentation, for instance.
<mwhudson> ScottSanbar: well, now you're getting beyond what I know about
 * mwhudson just packages python stuff
<ScottSanbar> mwhudson: Yes, I have seen several sites and tutorials on Python packaging - my current package started as a simple C hello world, and morphed into a C++ random conversation app.  My goal is to learn as much as I can from the ground up.
<ScottSanbar> mwhudson:  The python packaging seems to have its own twists and turns, I guess.  I want to learn some python, so I guess I will eventually get into that, assuming I do well on this other stuff
<cheako> Hello, again!  I hope I'm not in here so often that you'd remember.  "An email message was sent to cheako@technofoundry.com. Please follow the instructions on that message to complete the merge."  I remember having that address in like 2002, yeah that thing happens with a few airplanes around the time I had that email address.  Question, what can I do now?
<cheako> account deactivated.  I guess it would be.
<cheako> I don't even know what password it would have been, though I have some guesses.
<cheako> same for cheako911 -> cheako911@yahoo.com  and  cheako -> cheako@technofoundry.com
<cheako> What I want is just one account "cheako".  I'm not at all interested in cheako911 and mmestnik is only kinda belonging to me.  I don't think I want mmestnik to be found as a username.
<StevenK> cheako: All three can merged into one account
<cheako> StevenK: I guess.  I'd like to free cheako911 for use by someone else.  Though the issue now is that I don't have the email addresses for them and they are deactivated.
<doko> wgrant, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20110819/+build/2723829 I assume this is something which should be fixed in the package? not sure why I only see it on armel
<wgrant> doko: Did that FTBFS in the primary archive?
<wgrant> doko: Or perhaps it's P-a-s'd?
<wgrant> doko: Looks like it has no overrides.
<doko> wgrant, successful build and upload to oneiric in May
<wgrant> doko: ... indeed.
<wgrant> Now that is odd.
<wgrant> doko: Oh.
<wgrant> doko: It was NBSed out two weeks ago: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/armel/fsl-4.1
<wgrant> By you ;)
<doko> wgrant, yes I remember. ok then, if the behaviour is expected
<wgrant> doko: It's awkward -- we don't want to put stuff in NEW in a copy archive, so it's not clear what we should do when there are no overrides.
<doko> sounds fine
<doko> now trying to find out why it *did* even build
<exarkun> People are complaining that this page is confusing, <https://code.launchpad.net/pyflakes>, because the actual pyflakes source is hosted at <https://code.launchpad.net/divmod.org>.
<exarkun> Someone asked for a pointer to the actual code, but as far as I can tell, there's no way to add custom text to <https://code.launchpad.net/pyflakes>.  Is that right?
<wgrant> exarkun: Huh, that really shouldn't all be one project.
<wgrant> divmod.org should be a project group containing pyflakes etc.
<exarkun> wgrant: Yea, but it is, and I'm not going to do anything about it any time soon, so...
<wgrant> Ooh, I see it's all one huge branch.
<wgrant> That is a little unfortunate.
<wgrant> You can see on a page like https://code.launchpad.net/git that we do mention external hosting if the development focus is an import.
<wgrant> But we have no way to handle the case where the code is in another Launchpad project, because that realllly breaks our modeling.
<diwic> Hi! I'm building a daily recipe for two different versions (Maverick and Natty, planning on adding Oneiric). How do I detect, inside debian/rules, whether this is building for Maverick or Natty? (I need to apply different patches depending on version)
<geser> I'm not sure you can. You will probably need two recipes: one for natty and one for maverick
<diwic> geser, which pulls in two different branches? I was hoping something like /etc/issue would work
<diwic> geser, or I could resort to detect from "pkg-config --modversion <some library>" that I know changes
<diwic> but the latter feels ugly.
<geser> perhaps using "lsb_release -sc" is enough, but I don't know how reliable that is for recipe builds
<diwic> geser, come to think of it, it's not in the actual recipe I need it, but when the package compiles (which is a normal ppa build)
<geser> might work there too
<diwic> geser, thanks for the "lsb_release -sc" tip, didn't know that command. I think it should work
<geser> as I never used recipes: doesn't the debian/changelog also contain the distribution the source package is targeted for?
<diwic> geser, no, the recipe doesn't patch the changelog and the release mismatch is ignored later
<wgrant> diwic: Recipe builds add a new changelog entry targeted to the correct release.
<diwic> wgrant, maybe there's a bug somewhere then? Look at this: https://launchpad.net/~diwic/+archive/dkms/+packages - the natty published package still says "maverick" in the changelog
<wgrant> Hah, so it does.
<wgrant> That's not meant to happen.
<diwic> wgrant, should I file a bug, and if so, against what?
<wgrant> diwic: https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+filebug
<wgrant> We're probably invoking bzr-builder badly.
 * diwic files bug 855479
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 855479 in Launchpad itself "Daily recipe does not patch changelog to current release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855479
<ScottSanbar> Hi, All.  I solved my problem with the recipe for my package (now renamed to a unique name (randconverse) and put properly in my +junk area on launchpad
<ScottSanbar> In order to get it to work, i had to add several files (configure, install-sh, debcomp, missing, aclocal.m4).  Now it builds in the recipe based off of a autotools build environment built from scratch, a customized dh_make debian subdirectory template and a package built using make distclean for the .orig.tar.gz and debuild.  The question I have is that I do not see all these files in other packages (like Gnu Hello) on Launchpad.  Is
<ScottSanbar> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~scott-sanbar/+junk/randconverse/files
<BenC> Hello Launchpad folksâ¦does the PPA do any build for -ports architectures (e.g. powerpc)?
<johan_-_> i think i broke launchpad. for some reason on a merge prop i've been working on, it now shows an empty diff and it's only showing the very last commit message for the branch i've been working on
<johan_-_> has anyone seen this before?
<bac> johan_-_: the diff generation  runs asynchronously. it may take a while to appear.
<johan_-_> bac: i've seen that warning message. but it's not showing now
<johan_-_> however, i think this might be a project buildbot problem now. let me confirm before i waste anyone's time :)
<czajkowski> gmb: I want to think about anything other than the document I've to write so pictures is a good idea!
<gmb> czajkowski: Heh, fair enough. Just don't give me too much opportunity to think about it on my end or I'll never the any work done.
<dobey> johan_-_: it sounds like your branch got merged, and then you pushed a new revision after that or something
<czajkowski> gmb: it would be such a cool project though and remove the sterotype of geeks using computers! no ?
<spectie> hey there
<spectie> is it possible to merge two accounts in launchpad ?
<dobey> spectie: open a question against the launchpad project on launchpad, asking them to be merged
<cheako> Hello, again!  I hope I'm not in here so often that you'd remember.  "An email message was sent to cheako@technofoundry.com. Please follow the instructions on that message to complete the merge."  I remember having that address in like 2002, yeah that thing happens with a few airplanes around the time I had that email address.  Question, what can I do now?
<cheako> http://pastebin.com/H2Qm1Egm Transcript from earlier.
<cheako> spectie/dobey: I've recently used a form that does so.  Try looking at the other account's profile, there should be a merge link.
<spectie> aha
<spectie> cool
<Laibsch> I have a question for clarification.  Am I right that packaging work in Debian does not count towards Launchpad karma? I think this used to be different.  I'd say it's a bit unfair to people like me who believe that it's better to do the packaging in Debian than Ubuntu itself if possible (I never even got upload rights to Ubuntu)
<Laibsch> I provide lots of patches and debdiffs as well but it seems that other people (those who sponsor the uploads) then get the credits :-(  Is that so?
<cheako> Hello, I'm working on cleaning up my launchpad users.  However some of them cheako and cheako911 have email accounts that are no-longer available to me.
<cheako> http://pastebin.com/H2Qm1Egm Transcript from earlier.
<lifeless> can you still log in as them ?
<steev_> Laibsch: probably, launchpad only counts what it sees, and it doesn't see the debian packaging (but it's okay people like me love you no matter what your LP karma is)
<micahg> Laibsch: stuff you upload to Debian is credited under Maintained Packages
 * micahg has no idea if karma is given for that
<cheako> lifeless: No, they are deactivated.
<cheako> If I could login then I'd be able to alter the email address.
<maxb> Or rather, they're never activated, rather than explicitly deactivated
<maxb> So, you don't have access to either the yahoo.com or the technofoundry.com address?
<maxb> If so, please file a request at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion, a Launchpad administrator will need to perform the merges
<cheako> maxb: thx!
<cheako> Can I search for other "Mike Mestnik" or Mestnik accounts?
<lifeless> yes, search is on the home page
<james_w> hey, what's this "Hide comment" link I've just noticed on a bug?
<micahg> \o/ awesome, I've been waiting for that :)
<micahg> but I don't seem to have the link on a bug I need it on :(
<maxb> It's been there for some time, perhaps the access rules have recently changed to show it to you?
<mwhudson> james_w: it seems to be appearing randomly on some bugs
<mwhudson> james_w: which bug is it appearing on for you?
<james_w> mwhudson, one comment on bug 87012
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 87012 in Launchpad itself "Cannot start developing next ubuntu release before the prior one is released" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87012
<james_w> ah, more than one comment now
<james_w> but not all of them still
<james_w> and it appears to be non-deterministic whether it appears for a particular comment
<mwhudson> we don't do anything stupid with memcache on these pages do we?
<james_w> it doesn't seem to be the same probability for each comment either
<james_w> but yeah, may have something to do with caching, or which appserver is hit
<mwhudson> errr
<mwhudson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/855951
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 855951 in Launchpad itself "hide comment action is displayed when it cannot be used" [Low,Triaged]
<mwhudson> er, talking of which
<mwhudson> i don't see the control on comment 1 of 87012
<mwhudson> and i surely should
<james_w> I don't think I've seen it on #1 yet
<james_w> I've seen it on all the others
<mwhudson> haha
<mwhudson> i hope this is a caching bug somewhere
<mwhudson> the alternatives are worse
<mwhudson> oh
<mwhudson>     @property
<mwhudson>     def rendered_cache_time(self):
 * mwhudson suspects
<mwhudson> lifeless: hey, so you know you love caching
#launchpad 2011-09-22
<lifeless> mmm
<wgrant> Was this added as part of the inline comment stuff recently?
<wgrant> I thought this used to work.
<wgrant> And we recently started getting message page timeouts.
<wgrant> They appeared from nowhere on top of the timeout reports a couple of weeks ago.
<lifeless> mwhudson: whats up ?
<Fudge> hi looking for help to contact launchpad to ask for intervention or guidance on how to prevent a ppa from being deleted
<jelmer> Fudge: what is the problem exactly?
<Fudge> jelmer  someone on vinux deleted our natty ppa
<Fudge> i am not linked with launchpad but as i am a contributor to vinux ive come to ask, the owner hasnt asked and thinks it cant be  stopped and may have to get all our users to chagne the ppa to another
<Fudge> change
<Fudge> i thought it may be possible to ask for the deletion to be stopped and to find out who marked it for deletion
<Fudge> or if i can no tbe told for tony the owner to be emailed in regards to it
<jelmer> Fudge: As far as I know PPAs can't really be undeleted
<Fudge> it has not been deleted yet, just marked for deletion
<jelmer> Fudge: One of the Launchpad help contacts might be able to help further. If they don't show up here, I would recommend filing a question about this: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<wgrant> There will be no help contacts for at least 12 hours, so that won't work.
<wgrant> Fudge: Which PPA?
<wgrant> Fudge: The files can be recovered for a few days after deletion, if required.
<Fudge> vinux/natty-/ubuntu natty
<wgrant> And we can sort of revive a PPA sort of.
<Fudge> its still there currently
<wgrant> But I really wouldn't trust a PPA if you have people deleting it randomly.
<wgrant> Because anyone who can delete it can upload to it as well.
<Fudge> its been raised with dev team to limit who can access that but no action has been taken yet
<Fudge> clearly this will make it happen correctly, im told its  not an easy thing to do as a user is asked several times to confirm the action
<wgrant> The dev team is unconcerned that all these people have root access on users' systems? That is a worry.
<Fudge> hell yeah
<Fudge> i think anyone who joins vinux project on launchpad gets access, no idea why owner set it up like that
<Fudge> doesnt seem as if it would be default
<wgrant> Do you have a link to the PPA page?
<wgrant> I don't see a PPA named natty-
<wgrant> There is natty-testing.
<Fudge> maybe its already gone?
<wgrant> No.
<Fudge> im not very good with launchpad, havnt learned all about it yet, btw im visually impaired
<wgrant> Well, it may already but gone, but I'd still be able to see it.
<wgrant> And I can't see it, so the name is probably wrong. Hmm.
<Fudge> may i show you my source url?
<wgrant> Sure.
<wgrant> That would tell me what I need to know.
<Fudge> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/vinux/natty-/ubuntu natty main
<wgrant> Ah, there it is.
<wgrant> Thanks.
<Fudge> thank you
<wgrant> I was looking in the wrong place.
<Fudge> :) i do that a lot loL
<wgrant> It's odd. If someone clicked the delete button, it should be gone from ppa.launchpad.net by now.
<wgrant> I wonder if someone has just disabled it.
<wgrant> I've asked a sysadmin to check what state it is in.
<Fudge> thank you so much mate
<Fudge> I emailed Tony who is in the UK the creator of the ppa to add me to the vinux team on launchpad so I can make enquries too as well as asked him what steps he has taken to prevent it from being deleted. but think he has done little
<wgrant> Fudge: Good news, it's not actually deleted, just disabled. Anyone in ~vinux can go to https://launchpad.net/~vinux/natty-/+edit and check the 'Enabled' flag to bring it back.
<Fudge> woohoo ill get someone onto it :D
<Fudge> are you able to see who marked it disablexd
<Fudge> disabled
<wgrant> I can try to grep through our logs, but may not be able to tell for sure. I'll see what I can find.
<Fudge> thanx
<wgrant> Fudge: Do you have any idea when this might have happened?
<Fudge> last couple of days I believe
<Fudge> is that narrow enough field
<Fudge> timeframe i mean
<wgrant> Yep.
<Fudge> out of luck wgrant ?
<Fudge> wgrant  im a member as well now
<wgrant> Fudge: I can't find any requests that could have disabled that PPA in the last three days, unfortunately.
<Fudge> mm i guess its not as simple as grep vinux | grep disable lol
<wgrant> It is pretty much that simple, but there are a *lot* of logs.
<Fudge> I appreciate you trying
<Fudge> when the main guy wakes we will look at who has access, is it possible to have members that can not make changes, such as only uplaod to testing ppa where it has to be tested and aprooved
<Fudge> like some kind of flag system based per user
<wgrant> Anybody in the team that owns a PPA can upload to or disable or delete the PPA. However, you can use the API's newComponentUploader method (see https://help.launchpad.net/API/) to allow other people or teams to upload to particular PPAs, in addition to the owner.
<Fudge> ah gr88
<mwhudson> lifeless: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/855951
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 855951 in Launchpad itself "hide comment action is displayed when it cannot be used" [Low,Triaged]
<wgrant> mwhudson: Ah, heh, this is your fault, sort of.
<lifeless> s/sort of/entirely/ :P
<wgrant> mwhudson: We had memcached disabled on BugTask:+index
<mwhudson> wgrant: because of feature flags?
<mwhudson> wgrant: aah
<wgrant> mwhudson: But your flag changes broke the pageid and team scopes.
<wgrant> Must check if that's deployable yet...
<lifeless> I've commented to this effect
<wgrant> It is deployable!
<wgrant> But let's QA a bit more first.
<wgrant> StevenK: ^^
<mwhudson> wgrant: ah, i relanded my branch but didn't do anything to fix the pageid scope
<wgrant> mwhudson: I didn't realise it was broken too until now :/
<mwhudson> oh well, it might be easy to fix
<StevenK> wgrant: Working on it, qas is timing out a lot
<lifeless> mwhudson: pageid scope was broken too ? howso ?
<mwhudson> lifeless: that's what wgrant just said
<wgrant> lifeless: I don't know how, but it no longer works.
<lifeless> I'm asking not asserting ;)
<mwhudson> it's the same sort of thing though, reading things out of the request before they are set
<lifeless> I assumed that the bust scope for team broke everything
<mwhudson> no
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> so this is critical then
<wgrant> TeamScope was broken by the move away from LaunchBag.
<lifeless> mwhudson: want to rollback your new landing
<mwhudson> wgrant: no
<wgrant> mwhudson: Oh?
<mwhudson> wgrant: it was broken by trying to find the person during featurecontroller construction
<wgrant> Well, yes.
<mwhudson> rather than when the scope was checked
<wgrant> Which was done when LaunchBag was removed.
<mwhudson> wgrant: yes, but that's irrelevant
<mwhudson> really
<mwhudson> because the user is added to the launchbag when request.setPrincipal is called
<mwhudson> s/when/at the same time as/
<wgrant> Sure, but to remove LaunchBag you had to pass in the user from elsewhere, which meant working it out early.
<mwhudson> wgrant: no
<mwhudson> wgrant: i didn't want TeamScope to reference the request, that's why i read it early
<mwhudson> (implicitly reference in this case, to be fair)
<lifeless> mwhudson: -> -dev?
<mwhudson> lifeless: yes
<jo-erlend> if I delete my PPA and then recreate it later, will it be completely gone, or will it remember the package versions, etc?
<mwhudson> you won't be able to recreate it with the same name, iiuc
<jo-erlend> oh
<jo-erlend> how do I mark a bug as fixed?
<RAOF> Set the status to ?fix released?
<jo-erlend> "how do I set a bugs status to fixed released"?
<RAOF> Be logged in, click on the existing status, click on ?fix released? in the popup?
<jo-erlend> ah, there you go. Thanks. :)
<jo-erlend> actually... When should I set it fixed release and when do I set it fix committed?
<jo-erlend> my fix has been merged into trunk of the project, but I don't think a new package have been created for it. Does that mean it's committed, but not released?
<RAOF> That's a project-specific policy.
<jo-erlend> oh, ok.
<lifeless> jo-erlend: many folk work this way:
<lifeless>  - if a developer should still know about it, it is not fix released (or any other 'hidden by default' status)
<jo-erlend> which are hidden by default?
<lifeless> fix released
<lifeless> invalid
<lifeless> wontfix
<lifeless> opinion
<lifeless> I *think* thats it
<jo-erlend> oh, ok, great. Thanks :)
<lifeless> the largest number of users of your bug tracker is your developers
<lifeless> with second largest being users :)
<lifeless> so its a balancing act, but usually its better to optimise for developer time
<jo-erlend> yes, that sounds reasonable :)
<chrisccoulson> hi, i'm trying to set the contact address for ~mozillateam on launchpad to ubuntu-mozillateam@lists.ubuntu.com, but launchpad tells me that is already associated with https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozillateam, which only seems to exist as a consequence of a package upload in gutsy
<chrisccoulson> is there any chance of rectifying that?
<xrg_> Hello. What is the preferred setup for some automated bot pushing branches onto LP? with separate ssh keys? separate account?
<maxb> chrisccoulson: We can merge the teams, but for some reason LP insists that you claim the ~ubuntu-mozillateam team before we can merge it
<chrisccoulson> maxb, ok, just tried that. i'm waiting on an e-mail now though :)
<lag> Does anyone know what's going on with LP's unloading ability
<lag> It appears to be shot
<wgrant> Unloading ability?
<lag> I try to upload a tar.gz to "Download files for this release" milestone page
<lag> It uploads, then when it gets to 99% it says, "There as been a problem, please try again"
<lag> And now I'm trying to dput into my PPA
<lag> I get this:
<lag> Uploading to ppa (via ftp to ppa.launchpad.net):
<lag>   Uploading linux-ux500_3.0.0-1000.0.dsc: done.
<lag>   Uploading linux-ux500_3.0.0-1000.0.tar.gz: 98763k/98764k
<lag> And it just hangs there with 1k to go
<lag> This has happened multiple times
<lag> </rant>
<wgrant> lag: Have you tried uploading to your PPA with SFTP instead of FTP?
<wgrant> It looks like some router between you and LP isn't playing nice with FTP.
<wgrant> SFTP is a bit harder to mess with, so is more likely to be reliable.
<lag> wgrant: How do I do that?
<wgrant> lag: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading#Uploading_with_SFTP
<bigjools> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/1738
<lag> Will that cover dput and the upload button on my milestone page?
<bigjools> the FAQ explains it better
 * lag looks
<wgrant> lag: Release file uploads are via HTTP, and unrelated to FTP/SFTP.
<wgrant> Perhaps something is timing your HTTP connection out?
<lag> I don't know what - the uploader in the bottom right corner goes up to 99%
<bigjools> it's a known problem with FTP, no idea other than to guess at dodgy router natting
<lag> Yes, that's made things much worse :)
<lag> When it asks for login, is that my LP name 'lag', or one of my email addresses (that I use for SSO)
<wgrant> Your LP name.
<lag>   linux-ux500_3.0.0-1000.0.tar.gz:
<lag> <hang>
<wgrant> Yeah, dput's SFTP implementation doesn't report progress information, unfortunately.
<lag> Ah
<lag> Thanks for the heads-up
 * lag waits
<xrg_> up : how to push branches from a build machines to LP? with restricted ssh keys?
<RFleming> Greetings and Salutations!
<RFleming> I need help deciding if LaunchPad is right for me.
<RFleming> anyone available for a chat?
<dobey> RFleming: do you have a definition of what exactly is "right" for you?
<RFleming> dobey: I do.  I'm in private business, and need issue tracking on deploying a rather large app internally.  There are several contractors outside of our WAN who will need access to the issue tracking system.  We currently use bugzilla internally, but with me and a couple of other guys doing stuff with open source and familiar with launchpad... well we're wondering if it's possible to have a secure launchpad
<RFleming> project for us to use externally.
<dobey> ah ok. i don't think i can answer that then. i think you want to look at this: https://launchpad.net/+tour/join-launchpad
<RFleming> dobey: that's perfect!
<dobey> RFleming: particularly the box in the bottom left corner there :)
<RFleming> I have no problem paying for it :)
<RFleming> dobey: one other thing.
<RFleming> internally, we're using CVS and Bugzilla.  How can I install LaunchPad internally?
<dobey> launchpad is really only designed to be run on launchpad.net afaik, and while i believe it is possible to run a local instance for testing; i don't think it is a supported means of use for production
<RFleming> ahh
<dobey> i am not on the launchpad team, btw. i just use it very heavily :)
<dholbach> hiya
<dobey> hi dholbach
<dholbach> are launchpadlib hacking tips collected somewhere? :)
<dobey> i don't know if such a thing exists
<dobey> there is lp:lptools though :)
<dholbach> I just need the number of bugs of a team, but something like launchpad.people["ubuntu-security-sponsors"].searchTasks(status=['Opinion', 'Invalid', "Won't Fix", 'Expired', 'Fix Released']) seems to cause an internal error it seems
<dholbach> right, I could take a look at lp:ltools
<dholbach> http://blog.launchpad.net/api/three-tips-for-faster-launchpadlib-api-clients was the only thing I found so far
<dobey> dholbach: ah, it's probably causing the db query to timeout, since the query is probably very very large :)
<dholbach> I nicked "int(collection._wadl_resource.representation['total_size'])" from somewhere and thought that'd help
<dobey> dholbach: if you split that up into separate queries for each status, it might work better; but some of them might still timeout
<dholbach> but it might be the db query
<dobey> dholbach: doing a query on the toplevel bugs object might also be more prudent
<dholbach> dobey, what do you mean by toplevel bugs?
<dobey> dholbach: https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/1.0.html#bugs but i guess it only has createBug() it seems :(
<dholbach> ah ok
<dobey> dholbach: you might want to refine the searchTasks() also; with your query i think you're getting every bug related to that team in any manner; not sure if that's what you want
<dobey> dholbach: omit_duplicates=True might be useful, for example ;)
<dholbach> I'll try omit_duplicates=True - thanks dobey
<dholbach> doesn't work either, but at least I found out from https://dev.launchpad.net/Foundations/Webservice/Performance/CollectionLength that I can remove the 'total_size' code :)
<dholbach> ok, I guess it means, I need to go back to screen scraping for now
<ams_cs> I'm having lots of trouble with bzr integration in LP. Is there is known problem, or is it just me?
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs: What kind of problems?
<ams_cs> ScottSanbar: the diff on branch and merge pages never appears, and (presumably) this leads to branch merges going unnoticed and the branches have to be tidies manually
<ams_cs> See here: 7 branches "have not been scanned yet" .... https://code.launchpad.net/gcc-linaro
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs:  I see that.  What was the bzr command(s) you used that caused this?
<ams_cs> ScottSanbar: nothing new or unusual - they're straight-forward "bzr push", sometimes with an explicit --stacked-on, perhaps, but probably not even that, in most cases
<ams_cs> ScottSanbar: what is unusual, I'm told, is the size of the gcc repo
<ams_cs> bzr does not cope well with it, although it's far better than it was
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs: Ok.  Good luck.
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs:  Do you have a hint as to how to go forward to fix the problem, other than manually doing stuff, yet?
<ams_cs> ScottSanbar: I'd guess that a bzr operation is crashing or timeing out
<ams_cs> but I have no access to the logs, or whatever to know
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs: is there anyway to do the necessary automated merges, etc. locally then just push the final "pre-tidied" stuff up?
 * ams_cs does not understand
<ams_cs> The problem is, besides the missing diffs, that when I do "bzr merge; bzr commit; bzr push" it doesn't detect the merge and update the branch status
<ams_cs> I have to go into the launchpad site, and manually alter the branch attributes
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs:  can you replicate the launchpad repo on your local PC in a local bzr "repo" then do all your merging and commiting locally, then just simply push up the pre-merged, committed (ie, "tidy'ed") stuff up?
<ams_cs> ScottSanbar: of course, that's what I just said ....
<ams_cs> ScottSanbar: I don't expect the site to do my merges for me!
<ams_cs> ScottSanbar: I just expect it to notice I've done it, as it always has done, and remove the branches from the active branches page
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs:  Oh, I see how it works - so you make all your changes locally, then when you push them up, you expect bazaar to notice all the changes correctly and update the launchpad repo to reflect the changes you made on your local repo?
<ams_cs> ScottSanbar: exactly so
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs:  Ok, thanks for helping me learn.  So, you have and everyone else working on this project has a complete copy of the launchpad repo on their local PCs?
<ams_cs> when it's working, it normally changes the merge proposal to state "Merged", and the branch status similarly
<ams_cs> yes, that's how bzr works
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs:  Ok, thanks again for the info.  So, if you are working on your local repo, and someone else has changed their repo and updated launchpad, how do you get their changes into your local repo?
<ams_cs> bzr merge would be one way
<ams_cs> or start again with bzr pull and reapply your patch
<ams_cs> bzr doesn't have "rebase" :(
<exarkun> there's a plugin
<ScottSanbar> sounds like kind of a pain
<exarkun> works pretty well
<ScottSanbar> what's the plugin name?
<ScottSanbar> exarkun
<ams_cs> exarkun: yes, but it takes so long to run that it's actually quicker to do it manually, and once it trashed my repo
<exarkun> "rewrite" I guess
<exarkun> ams_cs: That sounds pretty different from 'bzr doesn't have "rebase"'.
<ams_cs> exarkun: it has a plugin that I no longer trust or find useful
<exarkun> ams_cs: That's unfortunate.  You should have said that in the first place though.
<exarkun> Then I could have kept ignoring the conversation :)
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs, exarkun: I can see where manually doing pulls could be a very good solution vs. an automated solution that might be non-transparent
<ams_cs> exarkun: to be fair to the rewrite plugin, it probably wasn't written with a project the scale of gcc in mind. It has 10's of thousands of files, and 100,000+ revisions, and makes bzr creak
<exarkun> ams_cs: I am all for software that always works correctly, or at least fails without destroying data.
<ams_cs> ScottSanbar: yes, there are always conflicts in the ChangeLog
<exarkun> "there's a lot of data" is a bad excuse for failure
<ams_cs> exarkun: true. I don't know what bzr's excuse it for not scaling well. git works fast and well, but doesn't integrate with LP, more's the pity
<exarkun> Fortunately I've been lucky, it seems, with my use of the rewrite plugin, and haven't had issues (and I've only used it with small projects).  I really am sad to hear that it has problems, particularly repository corrupting problems.
<exarkun> But I am glad to learn about the issue, rather than continuing to be ignorant of it.  I'll think twice before I use rewrite in the future.
<exarkun> And I look forward to the day when bzr doesn't corrupt itself so readily (I've had _plenty_ of that sort of problem with bzr in other contexts).
<ScottSanbar> ams_cs, exarkun:  Thanks for taking the time to help me learn.
<exarkun> Speaking of changelog conflicts, here's one solution to that problem, http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/trunk/twisted/python/test/test_release.py#L1523 and http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/trunk/twisted/python/_release.py#L605
<exarkun> And an example of its use in practice, http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/trunk/twisted/topfiles
<exarkun> Another solution is that it's possible to write custom merge algorithms for bzr to use.  It probably wouldn't be too difficult to implement a changelog merge algorithm that could deal with the conflict that always arises.
<ams_cs> that's a nice feature!
<ScottSanbar> hello-debhelper recipe fails in launchpad: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/80630411/buildlog.txt.gz https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/hello-debhelper/natty
<czajkowski> Aloha
<chmrr> I'm one of the upstream maintainers of https://launchpad.net/rt/ -- https://launchpad.net/rt/+packages shows that request-tracker3.8 packages list rt/4.0 as upstream, instead of rt/3.8  What's the right way to fix this on launchpad, as I don't seem to have rights to change them myself?
<chmrr> Nevermind, #ubuntu-devel managed to set things right.
<dobey> exarkun: or better solution is to just not maintain a separate changelog file in vcs; vcs log messages should be high enough quality to be in a ChangeLog too. :)
<exarkun> dobey: Perhaps.  But there are different audiences for the information.  Certainly a ChangeLog which duplicates the vcs history is a waste of effort.  A ChangeLog that is suitable for consumption by a slightly less technical audience can be valuable though.
<dobey> exarkun: are most of your issues with "bzr corrupting itself so readily" with conflicts in such files? i haven't had any real issues with bzr in quite some time
<exarkun> dobey: no, they're mostly with shared repositories
<exarkun> concurrent "bzr pull" processes stepping on each other and producing a state that can't be recovered from automatically
<dobey> ah
<chmrr> Out of curiosity, how much work is left to be able to import non-HEAD branches from git?  I know https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/380871 is relevant, but only looks to be the backend part
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 380871 in Bazaar Hg Plugin "support for colocated branches" [Medium,Fix committed]
<chrissbx> Hello. How do I access launchpad with git?
<TheEvilPhoenix> chrissbx:  launchpad doesnt support git
<TheEvilPhoenix> chrissbx:  they support bzr directly, but you can link to code in git, or request it be pulled into bzr
<chrissbx> (How do I clone a repo at all? Can't find any url on https://code.launchpad.net/~jonls/redshift/trunk)
<chrissbx> Well, I want to take a look at history etc.; I'm fine with converting it locally, what would be the way to go?
<cnd> is there a way to get ddebs built and published in ppas?
<chrissbx> Ok, so the answer is: git init --bare trunk.git && bzr fast-export --export-marks trunk.git/marks trunk/.bzr/ | (cd trunk.git/ && git fast-import --export-marks=marks )
<chrissbx> (not sure about the marks file path, seems to have to be inside the git dir, but dunno why)
<chrissbx> And the answer to the first question is: bzr branch https://code.launchpad.net/~jonls/redshift/trunk
<doko> spam at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/653196
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 653196 in openjdk-6 (Ubuntu) "when i compile using javac programname.java in my ubuntu 10.04 yerminal i get the following error: plz help me out or mail me.." [Undecided,Expired]
<maxb> hidden
<RFleming> Greetings and salutations!
<RFleming> Does anyone know how long staging.launchpad.net will be offline?
<cnd> wgrant, I've been trying to find info on how to enable ddebs in ppa builds
<cnd> based on bugs, it looks like you might know what's going on there?
#launchpad 2011-09-23
<macer1> Hello
<macer1> I found annoying think on Launchpad
<macer1> when apport is collecting bugs to bug that I am subscribed to, it spams me with 30 mails, it should all be send in one
<macer1> *thing
<micahg> is there a reason why I can't sync wireshark from Debian unstable yet?  It was uploaded a day and a half ago
<micahg> it's not showing up in LP under Debian
<mrevell> Hello.
<wgrant> micahg: Our debian imports are a little behind at the moment -- the migration to set things to superseded/deleted as appropriate is slowing things down.
<micahg> wgrant: ah, ok, when do you estimate catching up?
<wgrant> micahg: That's difficult to say. sid might not happen for 24 to 36 hours. We'll hopefully have a proper fix early next week, which means it should happen just an hour or so after Debian publishes it.
<wgrant> micahg: If it's urgent, you can probably convince someone to use sync-source.py...
<micahg> wgrant: right, ok, not so urgent I guess, will try again on Sunday, thanks
<ScottSanbar> I have posted a forum post about what I belive are some non-ideal behaviours in launchpad.  If anyone has coments, I would like to here them:  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/172028
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: Launchpad can't really automatically do that. How do you normally generate those files?
<wgrant> Often there's an autogen.sh in the branch that debian/rules can call to produce configure etc.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: autoconf, then debuild
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: You can't do that in debian/rules?
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  If I have an autogen.sh, could the recipe use that to build the autogenerated files?
<wgrant> This is completely autoconf/automake-specific, so LP can't exactly do it automatically.
<wgrant> Those files shouldn't necessarily be in the source tarball. So you can just fix your debian/rules to generate them first.
<wgrant> It's not recipe-specific.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  I am just learning, and have not gotten to the place in the tutorials that tells about writing stuff in the rules file.  I just do them manually at the moment.
<wgrant> You might want to look at dh-autoreconf
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: so even if I include all the neccessary stuff in rules to "autogen" or whatever you want to call it the build environment from the .am and .ac files, etc. the recipe still needs some of the autogenerated files uploaded?
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: No. Launchpad will build the recipe into a source package that doesn't contain the autogenerated files. Then, when Launchpad builds that source package into binaries with dpkg-buildpackage, your debian/rules file will tell dpkg-buildpackage to generate those files.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  OK, so then as long as my rules file contains the necessary steps to generate the build system from the .am and .ac, etc. files, it should all work - e.g., dh --with autoreconf $@ (in the rules file)
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: I think that will probably work, yes.
<wgrant> Launchpad is about to go down for a couple of minutes of database maintenance.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Thanks!  That is such a simple change to make, and then I can have a clean bazaar repo with only source files and no need for any auto-generated files.  What about install-sh, debcomp and missing?  Is there a command to tell it to do the autoreconf --install, like dh --with autoreconf --install $@ ?
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: --with autoreconf might do that itself. I'm not sure how it works these days.
<RAOF> They should be a part of the autoconfing
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Ok, thanks - you have been most helpful, wgrant and RAOF.  I am very excited to give it a try!
<wgrant> And Launchpad is back.
<ScottSanbar> Here goes ... :)
<fagan> mrevell: hey, what time does flacoste get in at?
<mrevell> Hey fagan, 14.00 our time.
<fagan> mrevell: cool ill read the books I just got in the meantime. I just got the definitive guide to javascript and a nice one about developing websites with dynamic interfaces so both interesting :)
<mrevell> Cool :)
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Ok, just tried it.  I deleted all my files except my source files for both the build system and c++ on my PC, and then all I had to do was run debuild and it did EVERYTHING!!! Cool.
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: That's excellent. Hopefully the recipe will work fine :)
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  However, I ran into a glitch and had to install the dh-autoreconf package, then everything worked hunky-dorey.
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: Make sure you add that to Build-Depends in your debian/control.
<wgrant> Otherwise the Launchpad builders won't have it installed.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Yah, that is what I was going to say - launchpad failed on that not being installed.  Do you have the syntax handy, othewise I can look it up ...
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: You'll see a Build-Depends line in debian/control in your branch. Just add ", dh-autoreconf" to the end of it.
<soren> On http://launchpad.net/nova, what is shows as the latest download is not actually the latest download. Is this a bug or a misconfiguration issue on our part?
<ScottSanbar> Thanks, I had already figured it out from the Debian control file policy document.  You are really being helpful!  Thanks!  Here I go again ...
<wgrant> soren: That's certainly a creative interpretation of "Latest version". Let me try to work out what's going on.
<soren> wgrant: Lovely, thank you!
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Here is my depend line in control:  	
<ScottSanbar> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, dh-autoreconf
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: However, it still fails to find dh-autoreconf in the recipe build.
<ScottSanbar> h: unable to load addon autoreconf: Can't locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/autoreconf.pm ... etc, etc. etc.
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: Ah, it needs to go in Build-Depends.
<wgrant> Depends is put into the built package.
<wgrant> The contents of Build-Depends is installed during building of the packaging.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  I have no Build-Depends file, never have (used dh_make, etc - don't think I ever saw it)
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: It should be in the first stanza in debian/control.
<wgrant> It's there in the branch you linked to in the question.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Ok, now I feel totally stupid - however, I will note that I am eyesight challenged, so somethimes things like this get me ... :)
<wgrant> Heh.
<wgrant> Hopefully this will fix it.
<wgrant> soren: Ah, our series sorting algorithm is somewhat odd.
<wgrant> soren: It doesn't handle alphabetical names properly.
<wgrant> soren: It will sort them in the opposite order.
<wgrant> So cactus sorts before diablo, so its release wins :/
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: thanks, building now - I have high hopes ... :/
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: I am still doing my make -distcheck manually to create the .orig.tar.gz file.  Can I put that in debian/rules as well?
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  then my world would be complete ... :D
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: I believe recipes still only build native packages right now, which means there's no orig.tar.gz.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  This current build is quilt, but has no patches because I am upstream, I think I am saying that right ...
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Does recipe change it to native?
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: I believe it will be automatically converted to 3.0 (native).
<wgrant> dh-autoreconf is installed!
<wgrant> Let's see if it builds.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  I believe you are correct - very sure - it is in the log files of the builds as native
<soren> wgrant: So nothing we can do will solve this?
<soren> wgrant: Well, we could remove the old downloads, but that's not really an option IMO.
<ScottSanbar> (waiting with bated breath ... )
<wgrant> soren: It excludes obsolete series, so you could lie and set cactus to obsolete, I guess :/
<soren> Works for me.
<wgrant> soren: Filing a bug that the series sorting is insane would also be a good start.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  SUCCESS!
<wgrant> soren: It basically expands all numeric components to four digits (padding with 0s), maps 0-9 backwards, the sorts.
<wgrant> soren: I've never seen anything quite like it.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  You are wonderful, thanks so much - I really feel a lot better about my package now.  Now, I will change it to be a source package, not just binary - one step at a time (after I download the .deb and verify it all works)
<wgrant> s/the/then/
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: The recipe builds a source package.
<wgrant> Let's see how the binary builds go...
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Oh, OK - does that mean when I run debuild it build s a source package, or do I need to do something like debuild -S on my home PC?
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: If you want to upload to your PPA without going through a recipe, you need to build with debuild -S locally.
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: But recipes do that automatically.
<wgrant> They take the branches you specify in the recipe, add a new entry to debian/changelog, run debuild -S, and upload that to Launchpad.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: Cool, that is really helpful.  Do I need a ChangeLog in all the various directories like I have seen around in different packages, like hello-debhelper?  I took them out to clean up lintian output.
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: No, you don't.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  From what I have seen, there are a lot of poorly done packages out there - even Gnu Hello and Gnu Hello debhelper are pretty unclean, and they are supposed to be what we learn from in the tutorials on Ubuntu  and Debian
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  I guess, from the standpoint of recipes and not having unnecessary files that will be auto-generated anyway.
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: autoconf/automake are a bit special.
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: Because release tarballs normally contain the pre-built configure etc.
<wgrant> While branches don't.
<wgrant> Release tarballs probably shouldn't have all that prebuilt, but that's the way it's been for a while :/
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Oh, I see.  So the norm is actually to have all that pre-built stuff in the release tarballs?
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: Yes, unfortunately.
<wgrant> It does mean that users don't need to have autoconf/automake installed, but it's pretty ugly to have generated files in your "source" tarball.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Wow, I would have never known all this either except for being told in the IRC channels by pabs in #debian-mentors and you and a few other people.  This stuff does not seem to be written down well, and when you do it right, it is clean and "beautiful".  Too bad.
<wgrant> Yeah, in this respect building from branches is substantially cleaner.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  When done properly, it is an amazingly well done system.  I am glad I am taking the time to learn Autotools, dh_make/debuild, the recipes and associated stuff from the ground up - I think I will be better off in the long run knowing how to do all this from scratch whenever I want.
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: Have you looked at debian/rules from hello and hello-debhelper?
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: As you can see, the new version of debhelper that you're using is slightly cleaner :)
<wgrant> And.. basically does everything for you.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Yes I have, and I am glad I do not have to mess with all that now.
<wgrant> Yep.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  The more I get into Ubuntu/Debian/Gnu/Linux the more impressed I am with how it is all put together.  No wonder it is so successful.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: I hope others will learn in time to take advantage of the advances in debhelper, etc. so they do not have to work so hard.
<wgrant> It is all so much easier now.
<wgrant> Not as easy as it could be, but there are people working on that :)
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: The documentation needs to be updated and examples brought up to date for new people like me - I would have been doing it the old fashioned way if I had not asked so many questions and bugged people on irc
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  actually, that is not altogether true - they have the new way in there, but it did not result in a workable recipe the way they had it, and i did not know what files to include/exclude from my branch in launchpad.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: AAARGH - it did not install my man page.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: never mind - I typed in the wrong package name - AOK on testing, huzzah!
<wgrant> /win 9
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  I will now finish up debuild with debuild -S, then on to the next step - pbuilder and chroot, etc.
<wgrant> Ah good, you know to use pbuilder :)
<wgrant> Sounds like a good plan.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Yes, I figure I should learn the "underpinnings" before I go up the toolchain - I like to know a little about what is under the hood of stuff so I can better debug, understand, etc.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  That is actually why I have a degree in Physics - not only was it fun, but I could understand "why" from basic principles.
<ScottSanbar> (Until I learned enough to know we actually don't really know anything at all)
<wgrant> And now CERN says we might know even less..
<bigjools> ah scientists who question their results and share the data, how novel
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Funny you should mention CERN - I worked on that project doing programming for the ATLAS detector for the University of Oklahoma High Energy Physics group.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: It was a nightmare - you never saw so much horrible, crappy, ungodly code written by newbie Physics grad students and professors who hate to program but have to to get at the physics.  This project is a dream compared to that one, from a programming perspective.  The physics was ultra-cool, though.
<ScottSanbar> (ATLAS being the main detector at CERN)
<wgrant> Physicists tend to write some... interesting code.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  I am not a physicist - I just happen to have a bachelors in Physics.  I hope I have learned some positive coding skills in my career! :)
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  I cannot thank you enough, and pabs from #debian-mentors.  I really feel good about my ability to make packages (up to the point I have reached) now, with the proper guidance and corrections.
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: Ah, good excuse!
<wgrant> Your packaging looks remarkably good for a first try. Well done!
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  One thing I realize, however, is that I do not have a computer science degree, and so have a lot of work ahead of me to read pedagogical texts to become a better computer scientist - looking back on my career, I really feel I could have benefited from getting an MS in CS
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: Mm, a lot of CS stuff is probably better self-taught anyway.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Thank you very much for the positive feedback.  It always helps to get some kudos to boost one's ego when in a steep learning curve.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Yes, mine is all self-taught - lots of exerience and some pretty good work with some classic texts, but I still have a lot more to go to become a kernel, driver, module and networking guy like I want to be.  I am currently in the middle fo "Modern Operating Systems" by Tannenbaum, which is the book that Linus Torvalds says inspired him to write Linux.
<ScottSanbar> (so I read, anyway)
<wgrant> It's certainly an informative book. His "Operating Systems: Design and Implementation" isn't bad either.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Ok, I'll putit on the list.  Here is my book list, FYI: http://www.sanbarcomputing.com/books.shtml
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  I found a bug in one of his examples in "Modern Operating Systems" and he actually e-mailed me back with a terse "Thanks you" for letting him know and giving him a possible solution.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Needless to say, I was amazed when he wrote back and agreed with me - made my week!
<ScottSanbar> (I kept expecting him to write back and basically say, "Not if you look at it the right way, stupid!")
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: If you know, can you recommend a good Linux kernel book?
<ScottSanbar> wgrant: from the prospective of programming it
<wgrant> ScottSanbar: Linux Kernel Development is not bad.
<ScottSanbar> wgrant:  Oh, good - I researched pretty well and thought it was good, but I am glad to have some positive feedback on it.  I will read it next, then.
<JonOomph> Hi!  I have a recipe on LaunchPad that just stopped working, after updating the changelog in my Debian packaging branch:  https://code.launchpad.net/~openshot.code/+recipe/openshot-daily.  The buildlog mentions: "debian/changelog didn't contain any parseable stanzas".  Any thoughts?
<JonOomph> Where is the best place / channel to discuss LaunchPad recipes... and recipe build errors?
<glyph> hello launchpaddders
<glyph> Hopefully it's acceptable to bump a project group request: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/172160 :)
<phillw> Hi, Lubuntu is having a problem with the mail archiving system. Is this a known issue affecting many, or just picking on Lubuntu?
 * phillw I love net splits! (22:33:27) phillw: Hi, Lubuntu is having a problem with the mail archiving system. Is this a known issue affecting many, or just picking on Lubuntu?
#launchpad 2011-09-24
<ripps> A build on the gmpc-trunk ppa has been stuck in "bulding phase" for 22 hours, and the log shows that nothing has happened.
<ripps> https://launchpad.net/~gmpc-trunk/+archive/ppa/+build/2802675
<ripps> wgrant: ^^
#launchpad 2012-09-17
<didrocks> hey, I think it's known (and related to this week-end issues), but I get some FTBFS on amd64 where the build succeeds: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/116381491/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-amd64.ruby-revolution_0.5-8ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<geser> didrocks: implicit functions declarations (see end of log)
<geser> Function `e_cal_new_system_tasks' implicitly converted to pointer at revolution.c:40
<wgrant> didrocks: There weren't any issues over the weekend
<wgrant> Yeah, what geser said
<didrocks> geser: wgrant: oupsss, will take more coffee I guess :) was mislead by Built successfully
<geser> the i386 build has probably the same warnings about this but it's non-fatal on i386
<didrocks> geser: wgrant: hum, weird, if it was fatal, it would have failed immediately
<didrocks> it runs until dpkg-deb
<didrocks> those are just warnings
<StevenK> Not on amd64 they aren't
<geser> the buildd filters the log for those warnings and marks the build as FTBFS on amd64 (and other 64-bit archs) when those appear
<didrocks> ah, interesting, didn't know that
<didrocks> weird it's not the same behavior on i386
<didrocks> thanks for the hint!
<StevenK> didrocks: Because pointers on i386 are 32 bit? :-)
<StevenK> Implicit pointer conversions are harmless on i386, and usually fatal on alpha/ia64/amd64/etc
<didrocks> ok, will fix those, thanks :)
<wgrant> On amd64 it usually won't crash
<wgrant> But it's still wrong and not reliable
<wgrant> On other 64-bit archs or even ABIs it is always fatal
<didrocks> yep, got it :)
<wgrant> ;/win 3
<wgrant> blah
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present -Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<czajkowski> wgrant: StevenK wallyworld_ can ye keep an eye on this channel for about 30 mins if you're about need to nip over to get blood work done at GP
<mgz> bloodwork always sounds so messy...
<ssam> for past day, when i try to add an "also affects distribution/package" to a bug i get a timeout.
<lifeless> ssam: whats the oops id you get ?
<ssam> Error ID: OOPS-3af127f38699989d9eba99c2b3c383d5
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=3af127f38699989d9eba99c2b3c383d5
<lifeless> !ubot5
<lifeless> !help
<ubot5> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<lifeless> ubot5: help
<mgz> where's the source, we should just fix that link...
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> would you like to chase it to ground ?
<lifeless> cause, I would love it if someone did ;)
<mgz> have asked in tech, I'll bug a l-osa if I get no joy.
<lifeless> its not canonical run
<lifeless> AFAIK
<mgz> hm, only mup is?
<lifeless> Laney: do you know who runs ubot5 ?
<Laney> lifeless: no, try #ubuntu-irc
<czajkowski> Laney: I asked alanbell the last day to look at updating the link
<czajkowski> lifeless: ^^
<Laney> there should be a URL to the source in /whois
<mgz> there doesn't seem to be, but lp:ubuntu-bots looks hopeful
<czajkowski> Laney: mgz lifeless asking in #ubuntu-ops
<mgz> I can propose a merge with the fix and hope the reviewers handle deployment for me
<mgz> bug 1051902 and branch upcoming
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1051902 in Ubuntu IRC Bots "OOPS responses do not link to current oops.canonical.com site" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1051902
<czajkowski> mgz: can you join #ubuntu-ops please
<mgz> ah, -ops not -bots
<mmrazik> Hi.  I have a question regarding the new sharing stuff in Launchpad.
<mmrazik> I have a project-team and organisational-team. Now organisational-team is a member of project-team
<mmrazik> In project I shared all the information with organisational-team
<mmrazik> but still if I try to push into lp:~organisational-team/project/trunk I get permission denied
<mmrazik> I had to share all project information with project-team in order to push there as a member of organisational-team
<mmrazik> is this expected or bug?
<mmrazik> err.. soryy. I'm trying to push into lp:~project-team/project/trunk and not lp:~organisational-team ...
<czajkowski> mmrazik: have you read http://blog.launchpad.net/general/information-sharing-is-now-in-beta-for-everyone
<czajkowski> wgrant: ^^
<mmrazik> czajkowski: yes. I just watched the youtube video
<mmrazik> I'm just unsure how indirect membership affects sharing
<mmrazik> if in project I share with group X
<mmrazik> and then X is member of Y
<mmrazik> I would assume I can push branches into Y
<mmrazik> mhmm.. .now when I'm reading this it doesn't make that much sense to me
<wgrant> mmrazik: Yes, team membership in Launchpad is always transitive
<wgrant> Members of team X always count as members of team Y
<mmrazik> in my private project I shared all the info with canonical-product-strategy and nobody else
<wgrant> mmrazik: Can you describe your particular case again? You've reversed the teams at least once
<mmrazik> then there is a project team (lets call it project-team) who is driver of project
<mmrazik> I, as canonical-product-strategy member, was not allowed to push into lp:~project-team/project/trunk
<mmrazik> canonical-product-strategy is a member of project-team
<wgrant> Right, which means that canonical-product-strategy gets project-team's privileges
<wgrant> Not vice-versa
<mmrazik> I think I start to understand. What confused me is that traditionally, canonical-p-s would be able to push as a member of the team
<mmrazik> but I think it makes sense now
<wgrant> ~canonical-product-strategy and its members can own branches, as you shared everything with them
<wgrant> ~project-team itself doesn't have any access privileges
<wgrant> Though its members probably do
<wgrant> Through ~canonical-product-strategy
<mmrazik> wgrant: thanks. I understand this now.
<mmrazik> or at least I hope so:)
<wgrant> Heh
<wgrant> If you're still confused, PM me the project name or something and I'll check out the config
<ssam> still getting the timeout on adding an "also affects" (Error ID: OOPS-1f56120addc778765c2491bde1ee924e)
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=1f56120addc778765c2491bde1ee924e
<czajkowski> ssam: what bug ?
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present -Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<ssam> czajkowski, 412647, trying to add a debian bug to it
<TheLordOfTime> LP bug 412647
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 412647 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Firefox is not able to play mp4 <video> tags" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/412647
<TheLordOfTime> ssam, what debian bug are you trying to add?
<ssam> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=682917
<ubot5> Debian bug 682917 in iceweasel "iceweasel: enable gstreamer support" [Normal,Open]
<TheLordOfTime> now explain to me how the two are related
<TheLordOfTime> !info iceweasel
<TheLordOfTime> right wrong channel
<ubot5> Package iceweasel does not exist in precise
<TheLordOfTime> or not
<ssam> iceweasle is firefox without the mozilla branding
<ssam> firefox can play h264 in <video> tags if you enable gstreamer
<ssam> both bugs are asking to change the build options of firefox to enable h264
<TheLordOfTime> i see iceweasel and firefox as different packages, and afaict upstream has already released such functionality
<ssam> gstreamer is a build time option, and its off by default
<TheLordOfTime> and you checked the Ubuntu firefox package to make sure that that's the case?
<TheLordOfTime> i've seen debian packages and Ubuntu packages diverge, where as the build options change for Ubuntyu
<TheLordOfTime> Ubuntu*
<ssam> look at about:buildconfig
 * TheLordOfTime isnt on Ubuntu atm, he's stuck on a god-forsaken Windows machine that should die
<TheLordOfTime> keep that in mind :P
<ssam> ditto, sitting on a fedora machine :-)
<TheLordOfTime> TRAITOR!
<TheLordOfTime> lol I kid.
<ssam> :-)
<ssam> even if there is debate over whether iceweasle and firefox are the same or not, and whether its a good thing (tm) allow firefox to play stuff through gstreamer codecs, it should not give a timeout
<TheLordOfTime> <ubottu> iceweasel (source: iceweasel): Web browser based on Firefox. In component main, is optional. Version 10.0.7esr-2 (unstable), package size 1422 kB, installed size 6403 kB
<TheLordOfTime> "based on Firefox" doesn't sound like "is Firefox" to me
<ssam> its a rebranded firefox. the mozilla trademark policy means that you can't patch (for example to fix a security bug) firefox and still call it firefox
<TheLordOfTime> i'm going to consult with whomever is the packager in Ubuntu for that, according to the release team the packaging was forked long ago
<TheLordOfTime> so i have to make sure they're related
<ssam> ubuntu has a special agreement with mozilla, debian does not
<ssam> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat
<infinity> What's the iceweasel/firefox discussion going on?
<TheLordOfTime> infinity, standby for logburst
<ovnicraft> hello i did a proposal to merge, then update my branch proposed, Q: i need to make a proposal again or LP update the diff ?
<TheLordOfTime> infinity, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1211479/
 * TheLordOfTime must disappear for a minute
<infinity> ssam: Right then, yeah, our firefox packaging isn't directly derived from iceweasel's packaging, so just filing one bug with Debian and one with Ubuntu is fine, linking them is generally only useful if you're tracking a fix-in-progress (like a big upstream mangling), to avoid duplication of work.
<infinity> ssam: But linking them to convey the "hey, it's fixed in Debian, just needs a merge/sync" thing isn't helpful, cause we don't merge iceweasel into firefox (mostly due to us not being remotely in lockstep with versions, etc)
<ssam> the debian bug mentions some issues when enabling gstreamer (and i've seen similar in fedora), so the discussion there maybe useful for someone testing the option in ubuntu
<TheLordOfTime> infinity, my stance as a Bug Control member is they aren't related, but i wasnt sure of whether we diverged from the packaging or not, so sorry for dragging you here :P
<infinity> ssam: Sure, it might all relate somehow, and adding trackers to debian/upstream/fedora doesn't hurt.
<ssam> was the timeout because they are different package names?
<infinity> Well, shouldn't hurt. :P
<ssam> i am sure i have seen an evince bug link to an upstream poppler bug for example
<TheLordOfTime> doubtful, but still :P
<TheLordOfTime> ssam, timeouts happen all the time for random reasons, i've seen it happen with "old" bugs
<TheLordOfTime> relatively speaking :P
<TheLordOfTime> but my concern is the relationship of that bug to the Firefox package here in Ubuntu
<TheLordOfTime> hence me poking -release about that relationship, and asking infinity to hop here. :P
<ssam> i have been getting that timeout for 2 days
<infinity> Honestly, if you want to see how the bugs relate to Ubuntu, just talking to chrisccoulson might be a better option.
<TheLordOfTime> infinity, indeed, is he alive? :P
<TheLordOfTime> like right now?
 * TheLordOfTime has to run to Sociology right now
<infinity> But I don't see much point arguing over how the packages relate, either.  If the bug is being tracked in several places and has issues arising, it's always nice to learn from the mistakes of others, even if the packaging codebases don't directly relate.
<infinity> TheLordOfTime: Dunno.  I am not my firefox maintainer's keeper.
<TheLordOfTime> well, i defer to your judgement, the release team is above me in knowledge :P
<TheLordOfTime> lolol
<TheLordOfTime> infinity, well, you should be!  </randomdisplacedblame>
<TheLordOfTime> ... CRAP, i'm going to be late to my sociology course!
<TheLordOfTime> *runs at max speed*
<ssam> for now i have mentioned the other distros bugs in a comment
<ovnicraft> hello  after update my branch proposed to merge, LP update the diff ?
<mdeslaur> how hard would it be to be able to download a PPA gpg key from launchpad itself instead of from a keyserver?
<mdeslaur> wgrant: ^
<michaelh> Hi there.  I see on the blog that blueprints can now be made private.  How can I enable that for gcc-linaro?
<TheLordOfTime> arent private blueprints / ppas / projects part of the commercial system...?
<TheLordOfTime> the one that costs $250 a year?
<michaelh> TheLordOfTime: I think there's a mix - you can do some private features in all projects to handle security vulnerabilities
<michaelh> TheLordOfTime: in any case, Linaro has a commercial subscription FWIK
<wgrant> mdeslaur: Launchpad doesn't have keys
<mwhudson> michaelh: are you in ~launchpad-beta-testers or whatever the team is called?
<michaelh> mwhudson: it is a beta feature and no I am not.
<mwhudson> i think if you join the team, you should be able to access the new shiny bits
 * michaelh joins
<michaelh> mwhudson: right, I now see an access control box on the blueprint that has Public as the only option
<mwhudson> ah
<michaelh> Hmm, who should I ask about enabling private blueprints for Linaro?
<mwhudson> michaelh: maybe you need to fiddle some stuff in general project settings
<mwhudson> michaelh: sinzui would know i guess, maybe also wgrant, StevenK
<StevenK> Orange is working on private blueprints, not Purple.
<StevenK> I don't think it's ready yet.
<michaelh> StevenK: hmm, the blog says http://blog.launchpad.net/general/privacy-for-blueprints-enabled-for-beta-testers
<StevenK> Ah, I didn't know that.
<michaelh> deryck, any comments?
#launchpad 2012-09-18
<jfcaron1> I have a local bzr repository which accidentally versioned some huge data files.  I unversioned them, but now I want to push the project to launchpad.  How can I make it not upload those huge files?  Can I push only the history from a given point?
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present - Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<mgz> test OOPS-3f88a8b6ed6964be842c6737eea45655
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=3f88a8b6ed6964be842c6737eea45655
<mgz> woho.
<czajkowski> yay
<czajkowski> nicely done mgz
<lifeless> mgz: so who did you speak to to fix that?
<czajkowski> lifeless: we asked in -ops yesterday
<czajkowski> then alanbell said it was up to tsimpson or jussi to get it landed
<czajkowski> lifeless: I saw your Q on answers, unsure if it's for me to ollow up on or you logged it there to track something
<lifeless> czajkowski: which one ?
<czajkowski> lifeless: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/208613
<lifeless> czajkowski: the linked bug covers it; I suspect maintenance squad are best placed to file an RT to get the current situation resolved until the data can be migrated to use the new stuff exclusively.
<lifeless> wgrant: ^ :P
<czajkowski> lifeless: ok thanks
<exarkun> what format are timestamps on launchpad?  YYYY-MM-DD?
<wgrant> exarkun: Yes
<wgrant> Is YYYY-DD-MM ever a thing? :)
<nigelb> god I hope not.
<czajkowski> bah should be DD-MM-YYYY
<wgrant> czajkowski: Burn!
<czajkowski> *HATE*  MM-DD
<wgrant> ISO8601 and derivatives over all!
<wgrant> MM-DD-YYYY is satan
<czajkowski> yes well doesnt make the rest of the world use it
<wgrant> DD-MM-YYYY is acceptable
<wgrant> YYYY-MM-DD is ideal
<czajkowski> I'd accept YYYY-DD-MM at a push
<wgrant> What!?
<wgrant> Middle-endian should be illegal.
<czajkowski> we shall agree to disagree shall we
<exarkun> wgrant: I thought that Launchpad might have decided to invent YYYY-DD-MM.
<exarkun> Canonical seems to like to invent things like that.
<exarkun> Thanks
<czajkowski> we invent many things, but I don;t think we can take credit for the date standard
<davmor2> czajkowski: as ali1234 was so keen to point out, YYYY-MM-DD is an iso standard :D
<wgrant> As well as making sense
<davmor2> wgrant: and making positioning far more sensible YY changes least, MM second DD well daily :D  Add to that HH:MM:SS and the tree of time is complete :D
<dobey> davmor2: people should just stop dwelling on the past
<xnox> lp is a bit slow for me.... i got timeouts each time trying to add small attachments (<1MB), now I am getting "Timeout, server bazaar.launchpad.net not responding." upon bzr push...
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> not seeing anything
<wgrant> xnox: There are no known issues, and it's working fine for me from multiple continents. Does a traceroute show anything odd?
<xnox> wgrant: let me check.
<xnox> wgrant: it does show odd stuff =)
<czajkowski> xnox: show wgrant and he'll judge on the oddness
<xnox> czajkowski: let me collect a bit more oddness first =) to boost the odd factor =)
<xnox> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1212887/
<wgrant> xnox: 15% packet loss to your first hop is slightly suspicious
<xnox> first of all Virgin Media is having an odd day and something is off in ae-2-52.edge4.London1.Level3.net
 * xnox ponders if I should restart my router
<wgrant> ae-2-52 doesn't return ICMP very much
<wgrant> So that's expected
<wgrant> And all the rest have at most as much packet loss as your first hop
<xnox> ah, fair enough =)
<wgrant> So it's something very close to you
<czajkowski> so no lp :)
<wgrant> Right, nothing there suggests a problem on the LP side
<TheLordOfTime> bazaar's working for me, just tested.
<TheLordOfTime> so it has to be on your end, not LP
<xnox> I should probably finish setting up WRT on my new router and put it into production. Restarted router and now everything is fine.
<xnox> no packet loss...
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present - Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<om26er> Hi! my login.ubuntu.com account has been suspended
<om26er> how to get it reactivated ?
<om26er> i kind of Can't work :/
<greenit> hi, i have a question regarding translation: is it possible to let a software translate in different languages at launchpad, although it is not open source?
<xnox> greenit: as long as the translations are BSD license i believe, you can have 'translations only' project.
<greenit> thx
<xnox> greenit: you will need to manually provide templates & download tarballs to update them.
<greenit> ok
<xnox> greenit: people generally make wrapper scripts, e.g. something like 'make tempalates-for-lp' and 'make update-translations-from-lp'
<greenit> could you give me a link to an example, or a how to? :)
<xnox> greenit: can you give source code and the build system of your proprietary project?
<xnox> greenit: i believe there is some documentation on help.launchpad.net
<greenit> thx, found a page :)
<dobey> om26er: that's not launchpad, but sso. you should probably bug someone in #canonical-is (i think that's the channel)
<om26er> dobey, yeah, this was sorted in #is now my account is back on :)
<dobey> ah ok :)
#launchpad 2012-09-19
<lifeless> OOPS-2175060c461b7eb75e41de249e4108e9
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=2175060c461b7eb75e41de249e4108e9
<lifeless> bigjools: ^
<james_w> is there anything I can do with an upload stuck with 1k to go?
<james_w> (ppa)
<james_w> I'd really like to avoid uploading this again
<wgrant> james_w: No. FTP or SFTP?
<james_w> wgrant, ftp it looks like
<wgrant> Ah, good
<james_w> wgrant, so I should just kill it and re-upload?
<wgrant> Yeah, probably
<wgrant> And use SFTP
<wgrant> Because it's not FTP
<james_w> there's no way we could like fish it out and rsync the rest and then push it back in?
<wgrant> Not worth it unless it's psychonauts-sized.
<james_w> though it looks like we have a new version to push, so it's probably not worth saving after all
<james_w> psychonauts/8
<james_w> but I'd like to go to bed rather than babysitting an upload :-)
<wgrant> But you're not in australia, so that shouldn't be a problem :)
<SamB_MacG5> what the ?
<SamB_MacG5> pyschonauts *8*?
<wgrant> SamB_MacG5: divided by 8
<james_w> thanks wgrant
<SamB_MacG5> why do you people even know the size of psychonauts in the first place?
<wgrant> SamB_MacG5: It's substantially larger than any other Debian package we've dealt with, and required a bit of hackery to get it through.
<wgrant> So it's a little infamous.
 * SamB_MacG5 thought it was a PS2 game ...
<wgrant> It was released for Windows years ago, and Linux (and Ubuntu Software Centre) as part of the Humble Indie Bundle in May
 * SamB_MacG5 doubts he would have anything beefy enough to run it on
<SamB_MacG5> (besides the PS2)
<james_w> wgrant, there's no progress information with sftp?
<wgrant> james_w: I don't think bzrlib exposes it to dput
<james_w> wgrant, ok
<lifeless> well
<lifeless> the dput glue doesn't hook in right
<james_w> data seems to be flowing
<wgrant> I'd always heard bzrlib didn't easily expose it
<james_w> so I'll go to bed and hope
<lifeless> lies
<wgrant> But that was probably 3rd-hand
<lifeless> and if not lies, fixable, if they filed a bug or whatever.
<nunnsby> Hi all, Q: I would like to see something implemented in TurnkeyLinux. They say make your suggestions at the Lunchpad site. What do I need to do on the site to do this?
<nunnsby> *launchpad
<nunnsby> lol
<nunnsby> and um secondly ... how do I get to sign in with my open id?
<nunnsby> I'm not quite understanding that bit
<nunnsby> I have one through both google and my own, yet maybe I'm missing something wrt to how to sign in using it?
<tsimpson> a search give me https://bugs.launchpad.net/turnkeylinux
<tsimpson> you must register with Launchpad before you can log in, then your Launchpad account will be an OpenID account too
<tsimpson> but Launchpad itself doesn't support external OpenID providers
<nunnsby> tsimpson: ahhh, okay, so now that I have a launchpad login I can use it for openid?
<nunnsby> tsimpson, cheers mate, got it. tx
<tsimpson> yes
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present - Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<roravun> Is it feasible to use launchpad with code hosted on external server? I know there is an import feature. But can I setup repo on launchpad to serve as mirror of the external repository (and the external repository is not bazaar)
<roravun> L
<roravun> *?
<vivekimsit> Hi folks! I have to merge my changes to this branch: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~c2c/c2c-rd-addons/trunk/files/head:/sale_order_reopen/ , please tell me how to proceed?
<czajkowski> mgz: any advice?
<vivekimsit> Hmm, I think no one is free today :)
 * mgz has a quick look
<mgz> vivekimsit: so, have you got changes in a branch already?
<mgz> if not, you want to do `bzr branch lp:~c2c/c2c-rd-addons/trunk c2c` to get a local copy
<mgz> make you changes there
<mgz> then push to lp:~YOURLPNAME/c2c-rd-addons/NAMEFORBRANCH (replace the caps)
<czajkowski> mgz: thanks
<mgz> then if you go to https://code.launchpad.net/~YOURLPNAME you should see that new branch, and can navigate to its page
<mgz> that has a "propose for merging" link, which you can use to create a merge proposal against the branch you created it from
<mgz> vivekimsit: see https://help.launchpad.net/Code and https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review for more detail
<vivekimsit> mgz: Ya! my changes are ready are tested just need to propose my changes in the target branch!
<vivekimsit> mgz: Ok! I don't need graphical interface in this case? just push to lp:~YOURLPNAME/c2c-rd-addons/NAMEFORBRANCH (replace the caps) will do the work?
<mgz> that will upload the code, then you can use the webpage to give details for the reviewers when you propose the merge
<mgz> (there's also a commandline interface to that, but you probably want to see the web page version to start with)
<vivekimsit> mgz: here "NAMEFORBRANCH" can be any name?
<mgz> yup, so, what I tend to do,
<vivekimsit> mgz: And proposing merge will be from the web frontend only, thanks!
<mgz> is try and pick a short name that describes what the branch does, and append the bug number if there is one
<tsimpson> seems all the links from /Code/Review to the bazaar documentation are all broken :(
<mgz> tsimpson: joy. well, it's a wiki at least so fixable
<czajkowski> tsimpson: maybe the folks in #bzr might help there with the documentation
<mgz> it's the launchpad wiki czajkowski :)
<tsimpson> mgz: can "anyone" edit it, or just special LP people?
<tsimpson> because I got a nice "Internal Server Error" page when I tried to log in
<czajkowski> mgz: well true but bzr folks tend to know more :)
<mgz> I'm... waiting on login currently
<czajkowski> mgz: which page let me see
<tsimpson> czajkowski: it's just the links from the wiki to the doc, they all seem to point to index.html#some-ref rather than the actual pages
<czajkowski> which page in the wiki ..
<tsimpson> czajkowski: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review
<mgz> czajkowski: can you log in to the help.launchpad.net wiki? it's... just spinning for me, and tsimpson got a 500
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> I can log in
<czajkowski> so if you tell me what needs changing will make the change now
<mgz> /Code/Review has some dead links to bazaar-vcs.org
<mgz> they get forwarded to the new domain, but don't have the split into multiple pages
<mgz> eg, index.html#merging-changes -> merging_changes.html
<czajkowski> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/index.html#merging-changes
<czajkowski> is what the first one changes to
<czajkowski> do you want me to make that change
<mgz> ...and now login works
<tsimpson> and for me to...
<czajkowski> mgz: you making the changes or shall I
<mgz> I just hit submit, then realised you had the lock
<czajkowski> ok let me log out
<mgz> okay, that's done. sorry for the confusion :)
<czajkowski> logged out
<vivekimsit> how to remove a branch?
<mgz> vivekimsit: be more specific? from launchpad or from your machine, and for what reason?
<vivekimsit> Ok! I got it!
<vivekimsit> from launchpad
<vivekimsit> I saw there is an option
<vivekimsit> thanks
<mgz> generally you only use delete branch on launchpad if you uploaded something by mistake
<mgz> you can just leave old branches around, once they've been merged or marked as abandonded they drop from the default view
<zyga> hey
<zyga> I'm trying to use launchpadlib to look at questions
<zyga> the production launchpad claims there are 5 (five) questions
<zyga> the first question is the distribution object for ubuntu (at index 0)
<zyga> the second question is the project called 'sikuli'
<zyga> am I doing something wrong or is LP just wrong here?
<james_w> zyga, which API call are you using?
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present - Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<zyga> james_w, I've sent an email to canonical-tech about it (there's a code sample there)
<Munchor> Hi there
<Munchor> https://launchpad.net/elementary/+milestone/luna-beta1 Any reason why that page is timing out for lots of users but other LP pages aren't?
<xnox> Munchor: because page timeout depends on db cache and how bug it is.
<xnox> Munchor: e.g. you can't load anything about linux package, due to sheer size of bugs / links /etc.
<xnox> Munchor: try refreshing, many times... should be fine =)
<Munchor> xnox, sooo we have too many bugs?
<xnox> milestoned... probably
<xnox> Munchor: if you go to bugs and search for bugs for that milestone does it work?
<xnox> (or blueprints)
<xnox> Munchor: well if you go to individual sub project it does work.
<Munchor> yeah xnox
<xnox> Munchor: hmm... ubuntu is different because it's a distro with packages, not a meta-projects with sub-projects.
<Munchor> xnox, that's a good idea
<Munchor> Perhaps we need to contact Launchpad staff to make elementary a distro
<czajkowski> no they're limited to ubuntu and a few others.  for distro
<Munchor> czajkowski, then after elementary OS Luna is released we'll contact them, maybe we get enough users to convince them
<xnox> czajkowski: why? there is fedora as a distro on launchpad. they are not asking for soyuz, just bugs and specs.
<xnox> e.g. they will have to continue manage branches in the projects.
<czajkowski> xnox: Fedora is there as a holding page and has details back to fedora page they dont use the bug tracker here.
<dobey> it is possible to have a distribution added to launchpad.
<dobey> it is just generally not the best/appropriate thing to do
<czajkowski> dobey: exactly
<dobey> for distributions based on ubuntu, it probably makes some sense
<dobey> but i don't think it will solve the specific issues that Munchor is inquiring about, either
<dobey> lots of bugs are lots of bugs, and a timeout will happen regardless of whether they're filed against a distro, or a project
<Munchor> Yeah dobey, that's what I thought, but if xnox said it
<czajkowski> no I think it's the searching by milestone having the issue
<czajkowski> jcsackett: ping
<jcsackett> czajkowski: pong.
<czajkowski> jcsackett: any idea why Munchor url is timing out, https://launchpad.net/elementary/+milestone/luna-beta1
<jcsackett> czajkowski: looking now.
<jcsackett> czajkowski: not sure; there's a longish sql statement involving specifications, which could be responsible.
<czajkowski> jcsackett: nods wondering is it the +milestones messing it up
<jcsackett> czajkowski: not sure what you mean.
<czajkowski> searching for things /+milestones seems to give me issues at times
<jcsackett> czajkowski: ah, yeah. we have a couple of milestone related timeout bugs, i think. this is ProjectMilestone, which is a bit different.
<czajkowski> ah I see
<jcsackett> but it shares that it can load a lot of data--related bugs and specs.
<jcsackett> as i don't see a timeout bug reported for projectmilestone, i'll go ahead and report one, and bring it to the rest of the squad's attention at our meeting in a few hours.
<czajkowski> jcsackett: thank you :)
<czajkowski> Munchor: see ^^^
<czajkowski> Munchor: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1053083
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1053083 in Launchpad itself "ProjectMilestone:+index timing out" [Critical,Triaged]
<Munchor> sorry I was having dinner
<Munchor> Thank you all for your help
<Munchor> We'll be patient for a fix :)
<zyga> hey everyone, I'm poking launchpad via launchpadlib and I got a 500
<zyga> I'm trying to iterate all the merge requests on launchpad
<zyga> (on the project itself)
<zyga> could that be caused by not using chunking to iterate the collection?
<zyga> (and hence the request gets killed)
<zyga> is there any chunking API?
<dobey> sounds like a situation that would cause a timeout, indeed
<zyga> is there a way to chunk the request somehow?
<zyga> I can make a reproducible 3 liner that crashes lp
<zyga> login anonymously, iter merge proposals  on 'launchpad'
<dobey> do you really want all merge proposals ever?
<zyga> I want to iterate yeah
<zyga> as the filtering is insufficient
<zyga> I want all things without a commit message and not landed (and not in progress)
<zyga> and all things older than X days
<zyga> so likely yes, correct me if I'm wrong, I need to iterate
<zyga> actually ignoring landed MPs could be an easy workaround if that's doabl4
<zyga> e
<zyga> getMergeProposals(status=...) ?
<dobey> i think branch.landing_candidates already ignores merged/rejected proposals, and gives you active ones
<zyga> what's the possible value of status there?
<dobey> are you using that, or are you using the project?
<zyga> on the project, I use getMergeProposals()
<dobey> do you care about merges that aren't into the lp:launchpad branch though?
<zyga> hmm, I don't want to hardcode any project logic, I guess it's fine to ignore things that don't land on the non-main series but I'm not sure how to express that on LP api
<zyga> (project logic as in logic for a particular project, eg. launchpad)
<dobey> project.development_focus.branch will give you the development focus branch for a target, and branch.landing_candidates should give you a filtered list from there
<zyga> trying
<dobey> if you do getMergeProposals() on the project itself, you're going to get all merge proposals ever for that project, even random people merging into random other branches
<zyga> right
<zyga> for some projects that may be appropriate
<zyga> how can I filter using status argument on that operation?
<zyga> status='not merged' ?
<zyga> dobey, I still get 500 your proposal
<dobey> no, status is a list of strings; the same strings you see in the lp ui
<dobey> so status=['Approved', 'Needs Review'] for example
<zyga> ok
<dobey> however, if there are a lot of branches with that status, you'll still likely see a timeout :-/
<zyga> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1215706/ <- my code, crash log -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1215705/
<zyga> so
<zyga> no iter/chunk api and forced timeout == no api for collections
<dobey> oh, you aren't hitting a timeout
<zyga> oh?
<dobey> you're hitting a bug in launchpad apparently
<zyga> (brb, coffee)
<zyga> I thought timeouts kill the request and give you 500s
<dobey> zyga: so can bugs
<dobey> zyga: search for the oops id on oops.canonical.com :)
<zyga> trying
<zyga> oh
<zyga> it's a bug indeed
<zyga> dobey, we've been looking at the backtrace with cr3 and it seems launchpad has two BranchMergeProposal rows with the same 'merge_diff' id/number
<zyga> dobey, it's probably historical cruft of some sort
<dobey> perhaps. :)
<dobey> but it's a server side issue, and not something i can help you with any further. someone on the lp squad will have to fix it :)
<tgm4883> If I mark a branch as private, do only the owners get to see the branch, or anyone that has priviledges to see private branches can see it?
<tgm4883> I'd think the former, but the wording makes it seem the other way, which is undesired
<tgm4883> "Only shared with users permitted to see private user information."
<wgrant> tgm4883: The branch owner and anybody that the project owner allows
<wgrant> On the project's Sharing page
<tgm4883> wgrant, how would you allow it to outside of the project owner?
<tgm4883> ah the sharing page
<tgm4883> I don't recall seeing that before I marked this private
<tgm4883> (doing all this in the staging area)
<wgrant> The sharing page is new a couple of weeks ago
<tgm4883> cool
<wgrant> Ah, you're trying to set up a commercial project on staging?
<tgm4883> well, I was testing it
<tgm4883> not really a commercial project, but not really something that is meant for public
<tgm4883> I work at a college, rather than setup a bzr server here, I'd rather just use LP
<tgm4883> stuff that would exist on these branches is going to be pretty specific to our setup
<wgrant> Ah. You need a commercial subscription if your code isn't public and open source, anyway. But feel free to poke around on staging.
<tgm4883> define public and open source? I can still select the project uses GPL v3. These branches will house things like our scripts to sync out to google apps, guest wireless provisioning stuff, etc
<tgm4883> I have no issue giving out the source to these either, I'd just rather have it private in case a password slips in there somehow (although i've setup bzr to not push the conf files)
<mark06> hi all, is the branch status field really used for anything at alll?
<mark06> *all
<lifeless> it determines what branches are shown by default on project pages
<mark06> ah, only mature in this case? can't we have it automatically changed to development if a new commit or overwrite changes branch after a mature setting?
<lifeless> merged and abandoned are not show
<lifeless> the rest are
<lifeless> and yes there is some automation in there
<lifeless> I forget what it is
<wgrant> The only automation is that it's set to Merged when it's merged.
<wgrant> Development/Mature can't be judged automatically
<wgrant> a Mature branch shouldn't become Development just because I commit a bugfix
<wgrant> It's more about the overall state of the branch. eg. my release branch is mature, because I ensure that only good stuff goes into it
<wgrant> Trunk might be Development, because it's not always stable
<wgrant> And I have an Experimental feature branch which is really really unstable.
<wgrant> but as lifeless says, only Abandoned and Merged have special meanings
<wgrant> And then it's only that they're hidden by default
<mark06> I think it's reasonable to assume branch is not mature anymore if a new commit comes in, since the mature status need to be determined manually by a person
<wgrant> The branch status is usually used at a higher level than that
<mark06> it would also be nice if we could set a branch as mature directly from bazaar, as a push option
<wgrant> It doesn't change on a commit-by-commit basis
<wgrant> mark06: What are you trying to do?
<wgrant> Perhaps you want to use merge proposals instead
<mark06> nothing much, it's just that I don't know what to set on mine, if I follow field description, then I need always to remember to change between mature and development depending on whether a commit is unstable or not
<mark06> would it be reasonable to change all to development, which is default value for new branches, and just stop caring about it?
<wgrant> Right, those descriptions are sort of several years old and not very sensible
<wgrant> Most feature branches are just Development
<wgrant> Then get automatically set to Merged
<wgrant> Release branches are probably Mature
<mark06> ok, I will do that, thanks wgrant, lifeless
<wgrant> I don't know of anyone who still uses the Experimental/Development/Mature statuses as they're described on the edit page
<wgrant> They evolved
<mark06> what does this message mean? "This branch is now a personal branch for <my name>"? I got it when renaming a +junk branch
<wgrant> wallyworld_: ^^ Did your target change branch forget to check that the value had actually changed?
<wallyworld_> wgrant: nope
<wgrant> mark06: +junk branch == personal branch
<wallyworld_> it checked, unless i made a mistake in the check
<wgrant> wallyworld_: It's a complex boolean conditional with no parentheses
<wgrant> So there's probably a mistake
<wgrant> +            if (target is None and self.context.target is not None
<wgrant> +                or target is not None and self.context.target is None
<wgrant> +                or target != self.context.target):
<mark06> wgrant: but branch was already a +junk/personal branch
<wgrant> I don't even know what that means
<wgrant> mark06: Yeah, but I think there's a bug in the check to determine whether it's actually changed
<wgrant> That code was changed yesterday
<wallyworld_> wgrant: brackets not needed - and takes precedence over or, brackets just make it harder to read
<mark06> ah ok wgrant
#launchpad 2012-09-20
<wallyworld_> if the branch is renamed, then the target has changed
<wallyworld_> hence the message appears correct
<wgrant> Hm, no, the target has no changed in that case
<wgrant> The target is the product, source package, or person
<wgrant> It doesn't involve the name.
<wallyworld_> and if the person is different....
<wgrant> Rename != change owner
<wallyworld_> i meant change owner above sorry
<wgrant> Right, that makes more sense :)
<wallyworld_> i knew what i meant even if my typing didn't :-/
<wgrant> Heh
<mark06> http://i.imgur.com/uFbIq.png
<wgrant> wallyworld_: Confirmed that renaming triggers the notification
<wgrant> So there is a bug of some sort
<wallyworld_> hmmm. bollocks
<wallyworld_> 3 notification messages is not good either
<wgrant> wallyworld_: .target isn't what you think it is
<wgrant> It's IBranchTarget(person) for a personal branch
<wgrant> Not None
<wallyworld_> right, so the first bit of the check is bogus
<wgrant> Could you just store the old branch.target before calling setTarget, then compare it with the one afterwards?
<wallyworld_> perhaps, i'll look at it after i finish my current branch
<mark06> hi, can anyone manage to get this hg branch imported? https://code.launchpad.net/~renatosilva/pidgin/trunk
<Laney> I'm curious
<Laney> what determines when I can hide others' comments on bugs?
<Laney> I can't work out a pattern. On some bugs I can do it and on others I can't. Both of the ones I'm looking at now (one in each category) have upstream as well as Ubuntu tasks, so it's not as simple as that
<patdk-wk> is there an issue uploading to ppa's? been 2.5h and haven't got the confirmation email, and don't see it waiting to build yet
<kamal> launchpad, y u no accept my PPA upload??   ;-)
<kamal> launchpad seems to be ignoring my attempt to upload to my ppa https://launchpad.net/~canonical-hwe-team/+archive/sputnik-kernel/+packages ...   I tried yesterday, and again this morning, but have not received any accept/reject email from my attempt to upload a new revision of one of those packages.
<kamal> can someone investigate logs or read the tea leaves or whatever, to sort out whats happening here?
* sinzui changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact: sinzui, jcsackett | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<codygarver> this page has refused to load for some days, can anyone help? https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementary/+milestone/luna-beta1
<patdk-wk> sinzui, jcsackett, any idea about the dput upload issue? launchpad not accepting new packages and not sending confirmation emails anymore today, atleast as of 8hours ago
<sinzui> I will look
<kamal> patdk-wk, sinzui: is that ^^ a known issue then?  I'm also seeing that, since yesterday afternoon.
<patdk-wk> I can't find anything about it being known
<kamal> patdk-wk: oh, your having described it as "the dput upload issue" had me fooled!  ;-)
<patdk-wk> well, I used dput to upload to my ppa, dunno if that is related or not
<patdk-wk> but more info generally helps :)
<sinzui> kamal, patdk-wk, Lp is running days behind schedule because of loss of builders last month. I have not heard of any issues where packages were not being accepted
<patdk-wk> sinzui, I have been submitting packages all week
<patdk-wk> normally accepted within minutes
<kamal> sinzui: specifically, its not sending the usual accept/reject email at all, since yesterday
<patdk-wk> except today
<patdk-wk> and still not showing up in the ppa as waiting to build
<sinzui> understood
<kamal> sinzui, patdk-wk: I even re-uploaded after waiting 12 hours, but still no response at all from launchpad
<dobey> patdk-wk: have you verified that the package you uploaded is signed with the same gpg key which is associated with your lp account?
<patdk-wk> yep, I had just tried a reupload a few min ago
<dobey> kamal: ^^
<kamal> dobey: yes, thats not the problem
<kamal> dobey: launchpad would have / should have sent a reject email if I'd mis-signed the package
<patdk-wk> dobey, I would, but I have never touched that, and have a dedicated machine to package it
<dobey> kamal: nope
<kamal> dobey: well, its not the problem anyway :-)
<dobey> kamal: it wouldn't know who to send the mail to :)
<patdk-wk> Primary key fingerprint: 66BE 5DCF 814A 4787 18D3  144B 19D4 8158 67A4 B7F2
<patdk-wk>      Subkey fingerprint: F934 1363 F265 DD0E F0EC  D29E 7087 4573 9DC4 D013
<patdk-wk> pub  1024D/67A4B7F2 2005-11-20 Danny Swett <dswett@patrickdk.com>
<patdk-wk>                                Patrick Domack <patrickdk@patrickdk.com>
<patdk-wk> hmm, how to compare them
<dobey> if you don't get an accept/reject mail, and no package was accepted into the PPA, it's almost always a case of mismatched GPG keys
<kamal> dobey: ok, double checked.  that's not the problem.
<kamal> dobey: its the same key I always use (and I upload packages to this PPA using this same build procedure quite regularly).
<patdk-wk> 0x66be5dcf814a478718d3144b19d4815867a4b7f2
<patdk-wk> well that defently matchs
<dobey> kamal: lp:~kamal is your account?
<kamal> dobey: plus, it seems unlikely that patdk-wk and I would both independently be suddently "doing it wrong"  :-)
<kamal> dobey: kamalmostafa
<patdk-wk> ~patrickdk here
<kamal> dobey: I think that perhaps you're incorrect about launchpad using an email address from your gpg sig as the address to send accept/reject email to.
<kamal> consider that there are often many email addresses associated with a gpg key -- how would it know which to use?  I think it uses the Changed-by: line in the _source.changes file instead, and that it is unrelated to the signing key.
<sinzui> patdk-wk, kamal you are both using dput?
<dobey> kamal: no, it gets the e-mail address from your account
<kamal> sinzui: yes.
<dobey> kamal: if the gpg key you signed with is wrong, it can't figure out which account you belong to
 * sinzui is asking webops if a process is not picking up
<kamal> dobey: ok, gotcha -- and yes, now I realize also that I use different Changed-by: lines sometimes, but I always get my accept/reject emails to the same address
<sinzui> kamal, patdk-wk We see uploads, but I also see a lot coming from Lp itself. We have restarted a process. Please try uploading again and see if we get a proper response
<patdk-wk> ok, uploaded again
<kamal> sinzui: ok, done.  thanks for chasing this down!
<sinzui> kamal, well I am just an intermediary. Ping when you get an email. That will confirm that the sftp server was throwing a wobbly
<kamal> s/when/if/    ;-)
<kamal> sinzui: will do
<sinzui> kamal, which ppa were you sending to? Can you say?
<kamal> https://launchpad.net/~canonical-hwe-team/+archive/sputnik-kernel
<kamal> sinzui: its been about 13 minutes -- no email response from launchpad.  patdk-wk, how about you?
<patdk-wk> nothing
<patdk-wk> if it was broken and fixed now, I would expect a backlog, but dunno how it works :)
<patdk-wk> I have seen those emails take 2hours before though
<kamal> patdk-wk: yeah, I dunno how it works either.  I normally expect to get my accept email with 5 minutes of uploading (assuming no backlog, if that is actually relevant)
<sinzui> patdk-wk, I don't see a change either
<sinzui> We just saw an upload arrive and be queue for Ubuntu
<sinzui> This might just be a ppa issue.
<sinzui> which is what we are looking at now
<sinzui> patdk-wk, We see gpg verification rejects. for keys that did work. Are you signing with a subkey perhaps?
<kamal> patdk-wk: hey, are you (like me) signing your upload with a subkey of your primary key?
<kamal> :-)
<kamal> patdk-wk: specifically, I just discovered that if I sign with my primary key instead of my subkey, the upload works properly -- whereas signing with my subkey certainly worked until mid-yesterday.
<sinzui> patdk-wk, I have confirmed from the log that your error (no public key) is the same as kamal's
<patdk-wk> how is it no public key?
<patdk-wk> http://pastebin.com/XVvc6KPB
<patdk-wk> and that fingerprint matchs my launchpad account one
<patdk-wk> hmm, I probably use the subkey
<patdk-wk> and consider it bad form to use the primary key
<patdk-wk> the primary key is only to be used to sign subkeys, atleast in my usage
<kamal> patdk-wk++ absolutely agreed!
<kamal> patdk-wk: but I'm almost sure this is the problem -- can you verify that you are indeed using a subkey then?   and (if you are inclined) test an upload signed with the primary to prove that works?
<kamal> patdk-wk: I've just filed this about the issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1053568
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1053568 in Launchpad itself "PPA uploads signed with subkeys silently fail" [Undecided,New]
<patdk-wk> heh, I'm attempting to figure out how to tell, and how to force it :)
<kamal> patdk-wk: I already spent that 10 minutes :-) so ....
<patdk-wk> I had another cert issue, dealing with ADP, always fun
<patdk-wk> so was away for abit
<kamal> patdk-wk: debsign '-k5409E422!' your_source.changes
<patdk-wk> ah, I let dpkg-buildpackage sign it for me
<kamal> patdk-wk: the exclamation mark there is the magic that says "use the primary, not a subkey"
<kamal> patdk-wk: well don't do that!  :-)
<patdk-wk> it accepts -k and passes it along :)
<patdk-wk> ok, I was def using the subkey before
<patdk-wk> uploaded with primary now
<patdk-wk> got confirmation
<kamal> patdk-wk: ok, thanks.  I'm entirely convinced that we've identified the problem.
<patdk-wk> this issue wouldn't annoy me so badly if the builders wheren't so far behind :)
<czajkowski> patdk-wk: they are not soo far behind at all https://launchpad.net/builders
<patdk-wk> 14hours?
<patdk-wk> not as bad as sometimes (2-3days), but
<czajkowski> patdk-wk: there havebeen some issues with the builders since our move, but compared to a few weeks ago it's a lot better and should be even better in the coming weeks
<patdk-wk> ya, but between the builder and this issue, it's pushed me back a full day now
<dobey> kamal: did you add a new subkey recently and upload with it, but didn't push the updated key to the keyring.ubuntu.com server?
<patdk-wk> dobey, I have only ever used my subkey
<patdk-wk> for the last 3 years
<kamal> dobey: no, not at all.  I've been using this exact subkey since january
<patdk-wk> I have never uploaded with anything except that same subkey :)
<dobey> ah ok, weird then :)
<kamal> dobey: fundamentally: uploads with this key worked two days ago (the logs show such) but don't anymore.
<patdk-wk> subkey generated 2009-07-12
<kamal> dobey: I will mention that you were entirely correct when you said "it's almost always a case of mismatched GPG keys" ... its just that the 'mismatch' seems to be due to an actual launchpad breakage.
<dobey> yeah, i guess a deployment today(?) broke something
<kamal> I first noticed the problem about 24 hours ago, and I know that it wasn't a problem 48 hours ago.
<patdk-wk> ya, my last upload was 2/3days ago
<Delemas> Ouch the amd64 build queues are really backed up... Asked to build a 4KB package and there is a 13 hour delay.
<kamal> czajkowski: please tell the builders to build faster, k?  ;-)
<Delemas> lol
<patdk-wk> did someone click the turbo button? so we only going 2mhz instead of 16mhz?
<Delemas> heh it's a 14 hrs delay now. That will teach me to complain!
<Delemas> heh those were the days....
* sinzui changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
#launchpad 2012-09-21
<DNS> hi guys :)
<czajkowski> DNS: ello
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact: czajkowski | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<DNS> i have 2 questions: 1. If i requested a year ago to increase my PPA capacity and now its full again and i could need more space again, does it make sense to reopen the request from a year ago or should i open a new one?
<czajkowski> open a new one please
<DNS> 2. i recognize that some binaries in my ppa are gone somehow even if they are just a half year old, what is the reason for binaries being deleted from a ppa
<czajkowski> hmm not sure
<czajkowski> StevenK: can you help me out here please?
<DNS> for example https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/gnu/+packages?field.name_filter=ballandpaddle&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
<DNS> precise binaries are gone
<DNS> but maverick still there even if they are from same date??
<DNS> oh even 5 days later uploaded
<DNS> same i recognized with emacs23 packages but the source packages i have deleted now, emacs24 is there:)
<DNS> so it looks for me like a database problem, but not sure
<wgrant> DNS: https://launchpad.net/api/devel/~dns/+archive/gnu/?ws.op=getPublishedBinaries&binary_name=ballandpaddle&distro_arch_series=/ubuntu/precise/i386&version=0.8.1-bzr118-2~precise1 says that you deleted the binaries at 2012-06-11T23:16:27.366326+00:00
<DNS> 0_o how can i delete the binaries without source being deleted?
<DNS> not sure how i am able to do so
<wgrant> You can do it through the API
<DNS> but i didnt afaik
<wgrant> Hm
<DNS> can u see ip of that dl request
<DNS> and is that german ip?
<DNS> *del
<wgrant> In terms of sources, you deleted -2~precise1, uploaded -3~precise1, then deleted -3~precise1 and copied -2~precise1 back in
<DNS> oh
<wgrant> That's not exactly conventional and might have confused something
<DNS> hmm
<DNS> but thats kinda bug or?
<DNS> or a feature? :p
<wgrant> There's probably a bug in there somewhere, but you've done some pretty strange things to that package in April and June
<wgrant> It's a bit hard to see exactly what happened
<DNS> well i can describe, i tried to build latest revision but that contained code depended on a special package which was/is not released anywhere, as i figured out later... so build the as failed and i copied the previous packages back in there
<DNS> *so the build has failed...
<wgrant> Right, and then in June it looks like you rerequested the deletion of the already deleted initial -2~precise1 package, I think...
<wgrant> So there was possibly a race because you deleted and recopied the first one back in so quickly
<wgrant> Before the deletion had been processed
<wgrant> I think
<DNS> wgrant: here i did similar i think and that confused launchpad too https://launchpad.net/~dns/+archive/gnu/+sourcepub/2559218/+listing-archive-extra
<DNS> its 2 times shown, 1 time failed, 1 time build ok
<wgrant> Hmm
<wgrant> That's not necessarily wrong
<wgrant> Since one of the builds is from another PPA
<wgrant> It is a tad confusing, though.
<DNS> Is the button/link "This answer solved my problem" removed at all or just temp?
<DNS> i mean under answers
<czajkowski> it's there
<DNS> czajkowski: i didnt see the link hm... anyways thanx again for your answer ;-D
<czajkowski> np
<tumbleweed> I'm not getting any e-mail response from (signed) PPA upload attemps. Any known issue?
<tumbleweed> (it is PPA for a team I just joined, so I could have a config screwup, but I can't find it)
<czajkowski> tumbleweed: what key are you using as there was an issue yesterday with the wrong keys being used
<tumbleweed> czajkowski: teh only key I ever use
<tumbleweed> (which is a subkey of my registered key)
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1053568
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1053568 in Launchpad itself "PPA uploads signed with subkeys silently fail" [Critical,Fix released]
<czajkowski> subkey is the issue
<tumbleweed> aha, ta
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> turns out reading ones bug mail is useful
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Is that still happening?
<tumbleweed> wgrant: as of an hour or two ago, yes
<wgrant> Hm
<tumbleweed> wgrant: and yes, you shoudl get your keyservers upgraded. I did a backport of sks 1.3.1 to precise, that's probably the best thing to run
<tumbleweed> err 1.1.3
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Yeah, there's a ticket about that
<tumbleweed> also, these days, it's recommended to put sks behind a frontend proxy, as it's single-threaded
<tumbleweed> oh, that's already the case, nm
<wgrant> It is, yeah :)
<wgrant> tumbleweed: OK, downgraded more packages. Can you try again?
<tumbleweed> wgrant: uploaded
<tumbleweed> wgrant: accepted, ta
<wgrant> tumbleweed: Thanks for confirming.
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Reduced Builder capacity at present | Help contact:- | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<kamal> thanks folks, for all the help diagnosing and fixing the gpg subkeys problem... sinzui, patdk-wk, dobey, thedac, wgrant, and anyone else who I missed there
<dobey> sure :)
#launchpad 2012-09-22
<agrif> Hello! I'm trying to register on launchpad.net, but the confirmation email hasn't come.
<agrif> It's been a while, and I'm on a GMail account, and I've checked my spam folder.
<ebergen> so this bzr error happens when I try to merge http://pastebin.com/BGskvFN1
<lifeless> OOPS-548f981f6e0a359a55f6817b2d5817
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=548f981f6e0a359a55f6817b2d5817
<pulb> hey guys, got a question: WHO can request builds for a recipe? only the owner or everybody with a launchpad account?
<maxb> pulb: I believe you need to have upload permissions for the PPA the requested builds are going to
<pulb> macx
<pulb> maxb: ok, thanks!
<DanRabbit> anyone on that knows anything about milestones constantly timing out?
#launchpad 2012-09-23
<croxio5> Hi guys, random question, is it possible to either merge or delete a Launchpad account?
<gdazilla> hi
<gdazilla> what to do to get a package out of my ppa that I had build by accident?
<gdazilla> I deleted already more than 24 hours ago, but it is still in the archive
<gdazilla> nobody here that can help me? I can't believe that all this people are only leechers
<audifahrer> hi
<audifahrer> I've some problem with my receipe build: https://code.launchpad.net/~tux-style/+recipe/oicf-daily / https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117077001/buildlog.txt.gz
<audifahrer> I think it's related to libdbus-c++
<DNS> audifahrer: it seems the cdbs package is missing in Build-Depends
<audifahrer> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7), autotools-dev, cdbs, pkg-config, libtool, libdbus-c++
<DNS> but i see it is so hm
<audifahrer> I copied debian files and receipe from another build that is working.
<gdazilla> i don't believe that the Build-Dependency is right, it should be libdbus-c++-dev
<DNS> and maybe you need to add automake, autoconf to Build-Depends too
<audifahrer> oh yes!!
<gdazilla> and there ist no libdbus-c++ package, only a libdbus-c++-1-0
<gdazilla> you can easy see this with apt-cache search libdbus
<audifahrer> you're right with both. I corrected it. thanks
<gdazilla> who? with what?
<DNS> gdazilla: you
<DNS> lol
<gdazilla> he could have ment you too
<gdazilla> and I was curious
<gdazilla> DNS: please tell me what I have to do to get help too?
<gdazilla> spell some magic words?
<gdazilla> what about: "please"
<gdazilla> can you help me with my Problem?
<DNS> gdazilla: try 'sesame open' now?... jk... sorry i didnt see your question, i was afk and my bnc dont logs channel msgs as usual if im off
<gdazilla> second
<gdazilla> what to do to get a package out of my ppa that I had build by accident?
<gdazilla> I deleted already more than 24 hours ago, but it is still in the archive
<gdazilla> +it
<DNS> this can take some time, sometime
<gdazilla> it is annoying
<gdazilla> my users damage their installation because of this
<gdazilla> they don't read the warnings I wrote in the portal
<gdazilla> and I have very stupid users :(
<DNS> i know this and it hurts most it is an package used by debian/ubuntu system on default
<DNS> +if its
<gdazilla> it is an nvidia driver
<DNS> eek
<DNS> :x
<gdazilla> this is generally no problem to be more new than ubuntu
<gdazilla> but i have an incompability with nvidia >290
<gdazilla> the way the monitor detection works has changed
<gdazilla> this is not the first time the long delay for deletion hurts
<gdazilla> why is this like this?
<gdazilla> do you know of a person who could do this by hand?
<DNS> sorry idk
<gdazilla> k
<gdazilla> thx anyway
<lifeless> gdazilla: deletion where?
<gdazilla> you mean which ppa?
<gdazilla> ppa:yavdr/main
<lifeless> what package did you delete?
<gdazilla> nvidia-graphics-driver 304.43
<DNS> hm im wondering atm about the license with such as package
<gdazilla> ubuntu hosts it
<gdazilla> so it should be okay for us too
<DNS> i mean doenst the lp policy say only free licenses?
<gdazilla> anyway, i want to delete it
<DNS> hehe
<lifeless> DNS: freely redistributable
<lifeless> DNS: for regular PPAs
<DNS> lifeless: is this somehwere exactly defined?
<lifeless> gdazilla: you've tried to downgrade the version, not delete
<lifeless> gdazilla: downgrading doesn't work.
<gdazilla> yes i tried, because I thought it has gone already
<lifeless> gdazilla: I would have expected you to have an error earlier in th eprocess; there will be some folk intimately familiar with the internals along in a couple hours, I'll point them at this and see what they think.
<gdazilla> and yes downgrading works if you wait long enough
<gdazilla> you can see that there is only an error during upload of the downgrade
<gdazilla> normally you will get an error message much earlier if you try to downgrade
<lifeless> DNS: https://help.launchpad.net/PPATermsofUse
<lifeless> DNS: 'freely redistributable by Canonical, and released under a license permitting redistribution free of charge'
<gdazilla> it would be nice if you would contact this person for me, because it is already late here
<lifeless> They are asleep at the moment.
<gdazilla> and me soon :D
<lifeless> Figuring out how LP behaves when you bypass the basic primitives of dpkg is not something I am going to wake them up for.
<gdazilla> of course nit
<gdazilla> not
<lifeless> but, I have pinged them, and when they are awake, they will look, I'm sure.
<gdazilla> maybe it was the problem that I deleted it in just this moment when the build was finished, and it was waiting for publishing
<gdazilla> n8
#launchpad 2013-09-16
<ozysimpson> sorry for cross posting: Could some one please point me to a document or help me in Setting up RAID on an existing Ubuntu Machine, the machine only had 2TB hard drive, i saw my friends machine just die last week and lost most of his data, I am being little cautious here went and brought another disk 2TB now my ubuntu is able to see the disk, could some one tell me how to setup as RAID 1 mirror please
<czajkowski> ozysimpson: this isn't the channel to ask that kinda question, perhaps #ubuntu
<smartboyhw> wgrant, weird, https://launchpad.net/builders/chindi02 takes 2 days to build a translation template-.-
<cjwatson> It's obviously dead, but I wonder how to cancel it ...
<wgrant> Done
<wgrant> un-ok, wait for scan to rescue the DB job, re-ok, next scan will rescue slave
<cjwatson> Ugh
<cjwatson> We should expose a builder's current build on the API
<wgrant> 2013-09-16 11:37:58+0000 [QueryProtocol,client] Builder 'chindi02' rescued from 'TRANSLATIONTEMPLATESBUILD-43563': 'Slave building when should be idle.'
<wgrant> cjwatson: TTBs can't be cancelled normally anyway.
<cjwatson> How come?  The process-reaping bits in lp-buildd are hooked up for them.
<wgrant> I mean on the DB model side
<wgrant> They have no concept of cancellation, in either the model object or the BFJB
<cjwatson> Ah, ugh
<cjwatson> Incidentally "Builder 'chindi02' rescued from 'TRANSLATIONTEMPLATESBUILD-43563': 'Slave building when should be idle.'" repeats a lot in the buildd-manager log - is something wrong there or does it just take a while?
<wgrant> The slave isn't cancelling, quite possibly because it's hung beyond repair.
<wgrant> We should probably immediately reset if there's no job to send the log back to
<wgrant> In fact I think I have a bug for that.
<wgrant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1041701
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1041701 in Launchpad itself "rescueBuilderIfLost cleans up virtual builders inefficiently" [High,Triaged]
<cjwatson> Mm, I think I didn't touch that because I don't sufficiently understand the fake-virtual armhf builders.
<wgrant> That's obsolete now; the virtual builders are all virtual.
<wgrant> I might look at it this week.
<wgrant> When I filed that bug, the armhf builders were pandaboards with a no-op reset trigger
<wgrant> So resetting for cleanup purposes wouldn't be immensely effective.
<Akiva-Mobile> Greetings, I am on windows, using the bazaar gui, and I am trying to make my own branch to a project. This is the code I am using:  bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lord-high-exchequer/dominion.linux/trunk/
<Akiva-Mobile> unfortunately it is saying in response "Permission denied (publickey).
<Akiva-Mobile> ConnectionReset reading response for 'BzrDir.open_2.1', retrying"
<Akiva-Mobile> im new to launchpad and bazaar; is there something I am doing wrong?
<mgz> Akiva-Mobile: what do you get from `ssh -vv lord-high-exchequer@bazaar.launchpad.net`? you have some ssh keys on that account, but you need the private key accessible locally to connect
<Akiva-Mobile> thanks
<Akiva-Mobile> mgz from a terminal, right?
<Akiva-Mobile> or from the gui?
<Akiva-Mobile> < graphics designer, not a programmer :/
<mgz> Akiva-Mobile: from a terminal, it will give more details before the "Permission denied (publickey)" from the underlying program, which might be helpful
<mgz> !pastebin
<ubot5> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<Akiva-Mobile> thanks
<Akiva-Mobile> okay, so I was lying, winterfrost was the guy having the issues;
<mgz> Akiva-Mobile: so, he needs his own account and ssh key, is the answer
<mgz> get him to read the setting up ssh page on help.launchpad.net
<Akiva-Mobile> mgz: your script actually apparently worked for him
<Akiva-Mobile> he had that setup
<winterfrost> Yeah, I had the ssh key done. It seems to be working now though.
<Akiva-Mobile> mgz: +1 internet points for you
<shadeslayer> could someone look at this recipe failiure https://launchpadlibrarian.net/150406874/buildlog.txt.gz
<shadeslayer> wgrant: czajkowski ^^
<shadeslayer> can be reproduced everytime
<shadeslayer> https://code.launchpad.net/~blue-shell/+recipe/milou-daily > for all failiures
<czajkowski> shadeslayer: I don't work for canonical any more
<shadeslayer> oh ....
<dobey> shadeslayer: eh. looks like it works now?
<shadeslayer> dobey: I changed the version
<shadeslayer> so that it doesn't use git-commit and doesn't use version 0.4
<shadeslayer> dobey: the weird thing is that it works in another project
<shadeslayer> but that project uses nest instead of merge for the packaging brancjh
<shadeslayer> actually, that might make sense, because if you merge 2 branches the git commit might change or sth
<shadeslayer> since you're modifying the bzr history
<shadeslayer> yofel: ^^
<shadeslayer> while in nesting you're not
<shadeslayer> but then why does it work locally ...
<yofel> what does merging have to do with *git*-commit? If anything it would change revno
<dobey> i'd say more likely git-commit would fail because with merge you'd have uncommitted changes in the tree
<shadeslayer> dobey: so why does it work locally
<dobey> shadeslayer: you're not running on hardy?
<shadeslayer> heh true, but I thought the buildd's had the latest bzr?
<dobey> maybe it's not a bzr issue, but python?
<dobey> there are plenty of issues that only happen on the build servers, unfortunately :-/
<shadeslayer> hm, yeah, the traceback does indicate that it doesn't have a python method split
<shadeslayer> someone should document these quirks in the launchpad help page
<yofel> well, the buildd's use python2.5, which indeed is far too old
<yofel> this is bug 915505 btw.
<ubot5> bug 915505 in launchpad-buildd "0.4 recipes: bzr: ERROR: exceptions.AttributeError: 'cStringIO.StringI' object has no attribute 'split'" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/915505
<shadeslayer> yep, nesting works
<shadeslayer> silly launchpad
<cjwatson> yofel: builderstack (which will involve them running precise instead of hardy) is supposed to be RSN
<cjwatson> (though we've been hearing that for a while)
<yofel> yeah, I'll be happy once it gets fixed, but I'm not holding my breath ^^
<alesage> I'm having some trouble getting through to the LP API, does it need kicking?
<dobey> trouble in what sense?
<alesage> dobey, let me paste one sec
<alesage> dobey, here's me in ipython: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6116795/
<dobey> oh, that is the staging server
<cjwatson> Yeah, staging was having a (long) DB restore last I checked
<dobey> appears to still be going as the OOPS is a DB issue on the server
<cjwatson> It's a many-hour job
<cjwatson> wgrant estimated 12-24 hours about 7.5 hours ago
<alesage> dobey, cjwatson ok yes I'm able to get on the production service, thanks
<alesage> can someone instruct on how to use the LP API to get all bugs reported by a specific user?
<cjwatson> alesage: person.searchTasks(bug_reporter=person)
<cjwatson> should do it
<alesage> cjwatson, thanks :)
#launchpad 2013-09-17
<Akiva-Mobile> What is the usual explanation for overly large pulls?
<wgrant> Overly large changes on the branch you're pulling from.
<Akiva-Mobile> My co- programmer is complaining that what his pulls are larger than our project itself
<wgrant> Is he authenticated to Launchpad?
<Akiva-Mobile> does merging work better than pulling/
<wgrant> Pulling over unauthenticated HTTP is usually less efficient.
<Akiva-Mobile> wgrant: I believe so
<Akiva-Mobile> but our project max size is 70 megabytes, and he is well over 100
<wgrant> How does he measure that 100MB?
<Akiva-Mobile> what the explorer tells him
<Akiva-Mobile> bazaar explorer*
<wgrant> Is it size on disk, network traffic, the volume reported by the bazaar progress meter?
<Akiva-Mobile> volume reported by bazaar
<wgrant> I've not used bzr-explorer, so I don't know what it shows.
<wgrant> Has he tried pulling from outside bzr-explorer? Perhaps its reporting is inaccurate.
<Akiva-Mobile> wgrant:  yah hes complaining about it in comparison to git
<Akiva-Mobile> claiming git is much faster. He already has the code though, just not the current revision
<Akiva-Mobile> if you have the code but not the revision, do you do a merge instead?
<Akiva-Mobile> or do you always pull?
<Akiva-Mobile> or update; ive never used that.
<wgrant> Those operations should be roughly equivalent in terms of performance.
<Akiva-Mobile> okay,
<wgrant> Has he tried a pull from the commandline, or measured the network traffic, to rule out a bzr-explorer reporting issue?
 * Akiva-Mobile thought he was due for a rtfm, and is thankful for your patience.
<Akiva-Mobile> wgrant: Nope. Guess its possible there could be an error
<wgrant> I just pulled some changes to lp:launchpad, which has like 150000 revisions and is nearly 300MB, and the SSH connection transferred a total of 148KB.
<wgrant> HTTP will be worse, as it's not a smart protocol.
<wgrant> So ensure that he's authenticated to Launchpad so he's using bzr+ssh
<pmatulis> i forgot, how does one get a private PPA again?
<wgrant> pmatulis: Create it under a private team, or poke me or webops (here, #launchpad-ops internally, or at commercial@launchpad.net)
<grahamba_> Hello, I'm trying to get to https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~canonical-website-editors/ubuntu-assets/trunk/revision/286 but keep getting an error, could anyone help, please?
<dobey> grahamba_: what error? "Unauthorized" ?
<grahamba_> Hi dobey it's thisâ¦
<grahamba_> Please try again
<grahamba_> Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
<grahamba_> Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode.
<grahamba_> Thanks for your patience.
<dobey> ah, probably a timeout. only suggestion i have then is to wait a bit and try reloading
<grahamba_> dobey: okay, I'll keep trying, thank you
<mapreri> I can't upload the same version for multiple distroseries, can I
<mapreri> ?
<mapreri> in a ppa, I mean
<dobey> no
#launchpad 2013-09-18
<smoser> hey.
<smoser> i am building in a ppa some packages that are in saucy back to precise (specifically for cloud-archive)
<smoser> i am just wondering if there is any magic in place to correctly resolve dependencies
<smoser> ie, if package-A depends on package-B > 1.2.0
<smoser> and i upload package-A and package-B at the same time
<smoser> (package B at 1.2.0)
<smoser> is there any intelligence that blocks build of package-A ?
<smoser> or do i just have to manually click 'rebuild' if one goes before other. (or upload-wait myself)
<dobey> it will dep-wait if the dependencies in the control file are correct (requires verison of b that is not yet satisfiable)
<dobey> you may have to manually hit "rebuild" on A though, after B builds.
<dobey> the builder itself doesn't attempt to parse the control file outside the context of trying to run the sbuild, afaik
<smoser> dobey, wait. thats confusing.
<smoser> what is 'dep-wait' if its not 'wait'
<dobey> smoser: it is the build was started, and the dependencies were not satisfied; the error is parsed, and the status is "dependency wait"
<dobey> but in my experience it doesn't automatically rebuild once the missing dependency has been built
<smoser> oh. is ee.
<smoser> thanks. dobey.
<dobey> the actual archive builders might do that, but in PPAs i've had to hit "rebuild"
<smoser> well, having a 'dep wait' state that is at least good.
<cjwatson> it depends on the exact way in which it fails
<cjwatson> LP detects some dep-waits automatically but not all
<cjwatson> one of these days I might try to integrate dose-builddebcheck, maybe
<cjwatson> dobey: It's possible you just didn't wait long enough.  buildd-retry-depwait runs every half an hour, and I don't see evidence that it's archive-limited.
<cjwatson> (ICBW>)
<dobey> cjwatson: maybe. 30 minutes is a long time, though i seem to recall some being hours after. it's rare that i have to upload a package and a new dep for it, at the same time anyway, and a large portion of the PPA stuff i deal with is automated now anyway
<cjwatson> The log is fairly useless for working out whether it actually did anything.
<cjwatson> wgrant,StevenK: Would it be an idea to run buildd-retry-depwait at DEBUG?
<dobey> tz-wait on that :)
<wgrant> cjwatson: Yes, IMO scripts should be cronned at DEBUG unless there's a really good reason to do otherwise.
#launchpad 2013-09-19
<stub> cjwatson: Its a standard lp command line script, so it supports putting debug and higher messages into a log file while keeping stdout cleaner (INFO+ or WARNING+ generally)
<cgregan> Hey Launchpad team! I have a Canonical internal project that was created as a public effort but now we need to put the binary behind some permissions. Is it possible to change a team PPA from public to private?
<czajkowski> cgregan: mail help@launchpad.net as it creates a Rt for wgrant and StevenK
<czajkowski> who are hopefully asleep right now but you never know :)
<cgregan> thanks czajkowski will do
<cjwatson> cgregan: No, it's not possible to change the privacy of a PPA once it's had sources published to it.
<cgregan> cjwatson: I thought so
<cgregan> but was not sure
<shadeslayer> I seem to be getting a oops on a specific recipe page
<shadeslayer> 152d2c57ce3b2ca52fbb6e61ff52377c
<shadeslayer> erm
<shadeslayer> OOPS-152d2c57ce3b2ca52fbb6e61ff52377c
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-152d2c57ce3b2ca52fbb6e61ff52377c
<shadeslayer> https://code.launchpad.net/~blue-shell/+recipe/homerun-kicker-daily
<shadeslayer> odd
<shadeslayer> where did my recipe go
<shadeslayer> seems like Launchpad ate it
<czajkowski> shadeslayer: best to file a bug on LP with the oops id or see if it exists alread
<czajkowski> *already
<shadeslayer> czajkowski: I /think/ I know what happened
<saiarcot895> Is there any chance an Apport package hook will get through a FFe?
<saiarcot895> More specifically, is there any chance an Apport package hook addition to an existing Ubuntu package will get through a FFe?
<cjwatson> #launchpad has no input into FFes
<saiarcot895> #ubuntu-dev ?
<cjwatson> #ubuntu-release; but I can save you time, there's a decent chance yes
<saiarcot895> Interesting, ok
#launchpad 2013-09-20
<sasa84> hello
<sasa84> does anyone else have a problem with one string in transmission? http://screencloud.net/v/4huQ
<dobey> error seems pretty direct to me
<ricotz> hi, ppa-builder https://launchpad.net/builders/chindi02 might be broken
<cjwatson> looking
<dobey> s/might be/is/
<dobey> and it seems to be broken a lot and often :(
<cjwatson> Ah, yes, Xen
<cjwatson> I've disabled it and I'll ask for it to be rebuilt
<ricotz> cjwatson, thx
<cjwatson> I'll work on giving back the failures too
<cjwatson> Sigh, been broken for a while, too
<ricotz> none of my builds hit it until just now ;)
<czajkowski> jamespage: ping
<jamespage> czajkowski, hey
<czajkowski> ello :)
<czajkowski> free for a quick pm ?
<czajkowski> jamespage: ^
<jamespage> czajkowski, sure
<cjwatson> dobey: regarding sasa84's question, the problem would appear to be that the msgstr is of basically the same form as the msgid, and yet the error says that the msgstr doesn't look like a format string unlike the msgid
<cjwatson> I don't know a whole lot about LP Translations but it does look like a pretty weird message
<dobey> cjwatson: well, i'm guessing LP probably doesn't validate the incoming pot file from the upstream untranslated string for msgids, but does validate when you try to submit a msgstr
<cjwatson> Perhaps, I don't know
<dobey> so yes, it's a problem with the upstream string.
<cjwatson> LP also shouldn't be saying things that aren't true
<dobey> it's not
<dobey> the error message given is true
<cjwatson> "'msgstr' is not a valid C format string, unlike 'msgid'"
<cjwatson> if the part before the comma is true, then the part after the comma is untrue
<dobey> oh, right.
<sasa84> hi cjwatson
<dobey> it's probably assuming that because it didn't fail to import, that it's valid. or the error is coming straight from a gettext tool
<cjwatson> Mm, you may well be right that it's the latter; I don't see that string in the LP codebase
<cjwatson> Somebody who actually knows about LP Translations might know more
<dobey> regardless of any issue in lp or gettext, the upstream string is clearly broken and needs to be fixed
<dobey> %'d is not any more valid than %&#x27d
<cjwatson> Er, is too
<cjwatson> "'      For decimal conversion (i, d, u, f, F, g, G) the output is to be grouped with thousands' grouping characters if the locale information indicates any."
<cjwatson> printf(3)
<dobey> oh. hrmm, that string is obsolete anyway
<dobey> it doesn't seem to exist in https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/transmission/saucy/view/head:/gtk/filter.c
<dobey> particularly not on line 898 as mentioned
<cjwatson> dobey: You can't rely on that, since the import failed: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/transmission.html
<cjwatson> Would require checking the actual source package
<cjwatson> (And that's been failing for over a year)
<dobey> oh
<dobey> i wish *that* would get fixed so that the branches are always up to doate :(
<mfisch> is there a way to export/make a patch a set of changes from one branch into another non-related branch? This includes binary files, which is the issue.
<mfisch> I tried bzr export -r-2..-1 .. and the diff obviously doesn't include binaries
<dobey> i don't think so, no. not easily anyway
<dobey> you could use xdelta to build a diff instead, that must be applied with xdelta
<mfisch> dobey: thanks, I did a patch + cp -a for the binaries
<dobey> mfisch: are you trying to patch them into a .deb or something?
<mfisch> dobey: we have some customizations for ubuntu-touch, the branches diverged a long time ago, but we added a new feature today that can be shared
<bkerensa> Can someone confirm how frequently LP does translation jobs?
<bkerensa> is it nightly or every two days?
<wgrant> bkerensa: What kind of translation jobs? There are numerous.
<bkerensa> wgrant: generation of templates
<bkerensa> wgrant: right now launchpad is showing ubuntu-docs/saucy as 80% translated
<bkerensa> but thats not accurate
<bkerensa> since no translation work has been done on the saucy ubuntu-docs branch yet
<wgrant> That sounds like statistics updates.
<bkerensa> wgrant: and that takes how long?
<wgrant> bkerensa: Translations are shared between series.
<bkerensa> yes
<bkerensa> so
<bkerensa> if raring had some strings alread translated then it would show that percentage in saucy?
<bkerensa> if minimal changes were made?
<wgrant> If 80% of the ubuntu-docs/saucy strings are the same as ubuntu-docs/raring, saucy is 80% translated.
<bkerensa> k
<bkerensa> thanks for clarification on that
<bkerensa> I will let translations team know
<Akiva-Server> sorry for a newb question, but I had been using bazaar explorer for awhile, and the process of throwing my latest code up on launchpad was, a) Commit, then b) push. Now that I changed computers, and set up bazaar again, my push option is gone, and committing alone makes my code appear on launchpad... Did I fundamentally misunderstand something here?
<Akiva-Server> I was under the impression that committing is like putting on the wrapping paper, and pushing was about mailing it to launchpad.
<Akiva-Server> When I pushed, was I needlessly overwriting my old project or something?
<wgrant> Akiva-Server: Bazaar also has the concept of checkouts (aka. "bound branches") that automatically push and pull from the remote server when you commit and update.
<wgrant> It sounds like you've got a checkout now.
<wgrant> They operate pretty much identically to normal branches, except that the push/pull steps are implicit.
<Akiva-Server> Okay, so is it more like realtime code editing?
<Akiva-Server> wgrant: And thanks for explaining that to me
<wgrant> Akiva-Server: You still have to commit
<wgrant> It just looks a bit more like a centralised VCS, like Subversion.
<wgrant> Because commits always immediately go to the server.
<Akiva-Server> wgrant: Ah. I must of pushed checkout not realizing what it did, and thus it set this all up for me?
<wgrant> Akiva-Server: Right. You can easily convert between a checkout and a branch using 'bzr bind' and 'bzr unbind', but I'm not sure if Bazaar Explorer has a button for that.
<Akiva-Server> wgrant: Great thanks.
<Akiva-Server> +1
<Akiva-Server> !cookie wgrant
<Akiva-Server> lol, there is actually a bot here :P
<bkerensa> wgrant: is there anyway to track changes made to a project? Like see who has changed settings?
#launchpad 2013-09-21
<czajkowski> bkerensa: I don't think so no.
<hexafraction> Hi. I'm fairly new to Launchpad, and have a branch imported with Java code, which I have confirmed to compile with GCJ. How do I instruct Launchpad to actually compile it after nesting in other branches, as the run command is not actually allowed on the Launchpad builders?
<hexafraction> And for that mtter, how is *any* build indicated in the rcipe? cMake?
<brainwash> LP is down
<wgrant> Yeah, we've lost a datacentre
<brainwash> oh, that's bad :(
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: LP down due to a datacentre outage; we're investigating | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<skroon_> where can I find all of the files on launchpad for ubuntu 12.04?
<skroon_> i'm getting:  linux-server : Depends: linux-image-server (= 3.2.0.51.61) but 3.2.0.53.63 is to be installed
<skroon_> so would like to manually downoad and install it
<dobey> hexafraction: you don't specify how to build the thing, in the recipe. you specify how to build it, in the debian/rules file. see other similar packages in ubuntu for examples
<hexafraction> Oh, understood now. Thanks.
<skroon_> i'm getting:  Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server.
<skroon_> is it down perhaps?
<dobey> skroon_: launchpad is down right now, but https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/ is i think the URL
<dobey> yes, read the topic :)
<lucas_> I think it's down
<wgrant> More specifically, the recipe specifies how to build a source package. The source package's debian/rules specifies how to build a binary package.
<skroon_> ahhh ;-)
<skroon_> thanks
<dobey> wgrant: well, really, the debian/ dir specifies how to build both the source and binary packages. a recipse specifies where to get the data :)
<skroon_> dobey: could this also be the reason for my  'apt-get -f install'  not working ?
<dobey> skroon_: maybe, but launchpad and the ubuntu archive aren't exactly the same. i don't know if they're in the same DC or not
<wgrant> skroon_: apt-get shouldn't be affected. Did you see any download errors?
<dobey> skroon_: and in any case, if you're using a mirror or a different archive host, the packages would be pulled from there instead
<dobey> right, and apt-get -f install may not necessarily even download anything.
<skroon_> ok
<Maple__> Is launchpad dow
<Maple__> ...oh.
<Maple__> :(
<AlbertoSN> Launchpad is down now!
<skroon_> dobey: well I can't do any 'apt-get install' at the moment, because it has found some packages with unmet dependencies
<czajkowski> AlbertoSN: see the topic
<AlbertoSN> The toppic isn't working!
<Maple__> can't do any apt-get update
<Maple__> :'(
<dobey> skroon_: did you do apt-get update? (anyway, #ubuntu is the channel to ask for help about ubuntu)
<skroon_> dobey: "Depends: linux-image-server (= 3.2.0.51.61) but 3.2.0.53.63 is to be installed" and "Depends: linux-headers-server (= 3.2.0.51.61) but 3.2.0.53.63 is to be installed"
<dobey> yes i see that
<skroon_> dobey: yeah I did apt-get update, ok i'll ask #ubuntu
<skroon_> dobey: however the solution online is they say I need to download a file form launchpad
<dobey> i don't know what "solution online" means, but there is plenty of wrong/bad advice on the internet, on many subjects, including how to fix errors on ubuntu
<AlbertoSN> Do you know why Launchpad is down now?
<czajkowski> AlbertoSN: the topic says LP is down due to datacenre outage, it's been investigated
<AlbertoSN> Oh, thanks for the info
<czajkowski> AlbertoSN: /topic is your friend for future
<czajkowski> AlbertoSN: or following https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus
<younas> anyone reckons when will it be up again?
<TLE> younas: they are working on it
<czajkowski> younas: it's kinda like relase day when it's out it's out, it's also the same for a server, when it's up, you'll know
<younas> Thanks TLE. my bad was just reinstalling Ubuntu on my brand new SSD :) so bit impatient :)
<TLE> depends on what happens I guess, on the scale from a broken a harddrive to the datacenter being hit by a meteor
<wgrant> younas: Why do you need Launchpad for that?
<wgrant> We don't currently have an estimate of when things will be back up.
<younas> few repositories arent working
<wgrant> ppa.launchpad.net is working fine, though you won't be able to use the automated PPA bits of add-apt-repository.
<younas> i see.. well thanks guys you're an awesome support
<cadu-leite> lauchpad seem to be off !?
<TLE> cadu-leite: see topic
<czajkowski> need a bot in here to annouce the topic :)
<smartboyhw> czajkowski, write one yourself;)
<BluesKaj_> I suppose it's not news that Launchpad site is down :(
<czajkowski> smartboyhw: sarcasim!
<TLE> czajkowski: since it will usually be shown when you join and everyone so far that had to be reminded of it had just joined, then well, what are the odds they will notice a bot then
<smartboyhw> czajkowski, nice sarcasm by spelling sarcasm wrongly;)
<czajkowski> TLE: first thing I do is check there
<cadu-leite> sorry. and thanks
<TLE> cadu-leite: no problem
<robbyt> a status blog would be nice :)
<wgrant> robbyt: https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus
<robbyt> oh!
<TLE> *G*
<type> which datacentre is it? are other (non ubuntu/canonical) sites affected, too?
<robbyt> a link to the status feed from the error page would be nice :)
<wgrant> robbyt: The normal error page for this situation has a link
<wgrant> This is the super-error-omg-everything-is-broken page.
<wgrant> Which doesn't...
<robbyt> oh! sorry guys
<robbyt> good luck
<robbyt> sending you my positive vibes
<excalibr> After you push a deb package source, how long do you usually have to wait for the ppa builder to finish building your package?
<smartboyhw> excalibr, depends on the queue
<smartboyhw> If it's long enough, you need to wait for 1-2 days
<wgrant> Queues that long are rare nowadays, fortunately :)
<wgrant> The queue's rarely over an hour, and usually much less.
<smartboyhw> But if the queue is empty, probably just how long it takes to build the package in your computer (+ a possible 0.5 hours)
<excalibr> I see..
<daker> hi
<daker> something is wrong with LP.net ?
<TLE> daker: yes, see topic
<captainvmos> no, it's just you
<captainvmos> hush, we might still be able to fool him
<daker> TLE: ok thanks!
<deha> any rough estimates? which phase of fixing? search for problem, already fixing known problem, waiting for a tool to finishing?
<captainvmos> if it's a proper DC outage, there's probably not a lot can be done ecxept wait for the folks at the DC to get their stuff together
<captainvmos> and maybe browse the prices for alternate hosting
<smartboyhw> I thought Canonical host themselves.
<captainvmos> the thing you have to remember is that quite often I don't know what I'm talking about
<smartboyhw> lol
<daker> oh even http://www.ubuntu.com/ is down
<czajkowski> yes it's not just LP, although here is where people come to ask. Maybe poke someone who has the @ubuntu account handle
<czajkowski> it's up on Launchpadstatus
<EagleScreen> hi
<wgrant> EagleScreen: /topic
<EagleScreen> some Launchad server is down
<deha> ok, so it looks more like hours than like minutes to come back. thanks for the info.
<EagleScreen> oh sorry, ok
<ARW0> launchpad is down ?
<Anon13145> You are probably already aware of it, but Launchpad is down.
<captainvmos> no, it's just you
<smartboyhw> ARW0, see topic
<StealthyLoner> :<
<ARW0>  roger that
<Anon13145> Is launchpad down or is it just my end?
<StealthyLoner> any estimate on how long?
<captainvmos> just you
<blast007> Anon13145: read the topic :)
<JackYu> here too.
<palasso> Hi, is launchpad down?
<czajkowski> does anyone read the topic any more ?
<blast007> czajkowski: nope...
<wgrant> Apparently not!
<EagleScreen> This is the end of the World
<tsimpson> any more? did they ever!?
<captainvmos> make it ALL CAPS!
<czajkowski> I've just posted to the lococontacts list
<palasso> czajkowski: thnx and sorry for asking
<czajkowski> maybe someone could post to a few other areas
<Anon13145> It's down due to a datacentre outage and their investigating
<smartboyhw> Keep Calm and wait for IS to restore please
<StealthyLoner> datacenter outrage
<Anon13145> Ubuntu Forums seems down too
<czajkowski> Anon13145: yes a number of areas would be
<SirVerII> which data centre is this? is canonical running their own?
<StealthyLoner> is there any estimate on anything? :<
<tsimpson> it'll be fixed as soon as possible
<smartboyhw> https://plus.google.com/113294244748214217005/posts/2fUGXAGeL2i
<smartboyhw> :P
<sj0rs> I can't access https://launchpad.net/phpmyadmin
<savvas> ETA on the fix? :)
<smartboyhw> sj0rs, see topic
<flabber> het, launchpad down?
<flabber> *hey
<smartboyhw> flabber, yes, see topic
<thebrush_mobile> it seems flabber
<kshitij8_> is code.launchpad.net down?
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: LAUNCHPAD IS DOWN due to a datacentre outage; we're working on it.
<czajkowski> lol
 * czajkowski hugs wgrant 
<kshitij8_> nevermind.read the message..
<yousdo> hello https://launchpad.net/~gqrx/+archive/releases does not work :(
<sj0rs> Lol
 * wgrant gives up!
<smartboyhw> PLEASE READ THE TOPIC
* smartboyhw changed the topic of #launchpad to: !
 * smartboyhw gives up
<smartboyhw> Oy!?
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: LAUNCHPAD IS DOWN due to a datacentre outage; we're working on it.
 * smartboyhw hates a non +t topic here
<yousdo> ops
<sj0rs> Datacenter not centre
<yousdo> sorry
<wgrant> sj0rs: We're not Amercian :)
<sj0rs> I hate centre, I have center domains
<sj0rs> Lol
<wgrant> Nor American, for that matter.
<smartboyhw> wgrant, I think of something that might help
<sj0rs> UK, Aus?
<kshitij8_> btw has been down for a while now?
<wgrant> I'm Australian, the people fixing it are UK :)
<wgrant> So, both!
<wgrant> kshitij8_: Just over an hour now.
<kshitij8_> ohh..hope it gets back up soon. :)
<smartboyhw> wgrant, "/msg ChanServ SET #launchpad ENTRYMSG LAUNCHPAD IS DOWN DUE TO DATACENTRE OUTAGE" helps a bit I think
<smartboyhw> It sets entry messages for users coming in
<awi> hi all
<awi> is launchpad server down?
<wgrant> smartboyhw: I'm going to test if people can read allcaps topics first...
<WebbyIT> awi, yes, also ubuntu.com and ubuntuforums
<nsrosenqvist> When can we expect Launchpad to be up again?
<kshitij8_> do ubuntu.com and ubuntuforums and lp share the same datacentre?
<sj0rs> Rofl ubuntu.com offline
<WebbyIT> kshitij8_, I suppose yes. Also italian LocoTeam websites are offline
<awi> tnx, will wait
<daker> kshitij8_: what do you expect ?
<JackYu> kshitij8_, seems yes.
<sj0rs> Thought they were the absolute masters of hosting
<spandel> launchpad down?
<kshitij8_> i hope its not a Denial of Service attack.
<TLE> spandel: see topic
<spandel> ah..
<sj0rs> Datacenter outage because of DDOS?
<cassa> Hi
<czajkowski> sj0rs: its just out lets not jump to conclusions
<spandel> any news about when it will be back up?
<cassa> Launchpad offline :C
<yousdo> well.. now i must compile uff
<czajkowski> cassa: see topiuc
 * kshitij8_ is just guessing :P
<cassa> I know
<sj0rs> DDOS!!
<sj0rs> Just kidding
<smartboyhw> wgrant, heh heh
<sj0rs> How much money is lost in this outage so far?
<yousdo> this is an injustice
<yousdo> i need gqrx
<yousdo> now how i will do
<yousdo> i cry
* JackYu changed the topic of #launchpad to: LAUNCHPAD IS DOWN due to a datacentre outage; we're working on it.
<root_> exit
<MrSamuel> is there something wrong with launchpad
<MrSamuel> I keep on getting "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server."
<smartboyhw> MrSamuel, see topic please
<MrSamuel> "Try reloading this page in a minute or two. If the problem persists, let us know in the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode."
<MrSamuel> oh okay
<MrSamuel> nice :/
* smartboyhw changed the topic of #launchpad to: LAUNCHPAD IS DOWN DUE TO A DATACENTRE OUTAGE; WE'RE WORKING ON IT.
<smartboyhw> (I think we need to try full caps)
<wgrant> Indeed.
<groszek> haha. came here to check if anyone else has the problem
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: LAUNCHPAD IS DOWN DUE TO A DATACENTRE OUTAGE; WE'RE WORKING ON IT.| Follow Launchpadstatus for future updates. https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus
<groszek> or add colors to topic
<WebbyIT> Or mute the chan :P
<smartboyhw> WebbyIT, good idea
<groszek> there isn't any ppa mirror I suppose?
<wgrant> groszek: ppa.launchpad.net is not affected by the outage.
<hydruid> launchpad down?
<hydruid> looks like so :P
<ukbeast> oh. I wanted midori ppa lol
<felixonmars> and i want to add a ppa to my server....
<groszek> no? I can't get it to work
 * felixonmars gonna do it manually :P
<ukbeast> how long has it been down?
<felixonmars> an hour or so?
<wgrant> You can't currently use add-apt-repository to automatically add a new PPA to your system, but you can do it manually.
<groszek> ahhh right, thanks
<ukbeast> anything to with ubuntu has been down. (ubuntu forums, ubuntu.com)
<czajkowski> yes
<WebbyIT> askubuntu and ubuntu-discourse are up and running
<felixonmars> so im doing: echo "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/chris-lea/node.js/ubuntu raring main" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/chris-lea-node_js-raring.list
<felixonmars> hope this helps someone
<smartboyhw> WebbyIT, nice new
<smartboyhw> *news
<hydruid> wow I can't believe Ubuntu.com is down.....whats up?
<sj0rs> DDOS
<hydruid> :P
<smartboyhw> hydruid, datacenter in London DDOS
<sj0rs> Really DDOS?
<ukbeast> windows again with DDos. lol
<wgrant> It's not a DDoS.
<sj0rs> Lol
<ukbeast> jk
<Waster> launchpad is down too?
<smartboyhw> jk
<smartboyhw> wallyworld, yes
<smartboyhw> Oops, Waster :P
<smartboyhw> Tab fault
<ukbeast> Yep. just have to wait like a goodboy for midori's ppa
<Waster> it's a pity
<wgrant> ukbeast: Which PPA?
<ukbeast> personal package erm something
<`z> archive
<`z> personal package archive
<ukbeast> thanks z
<smartboyhw> It's WHICH ppa
<smartboyhw> Not asking about what PPA means-.-
<ukbeast>  ppa:midori/ppa
<ukbeast> -.-
<ukbeast> Keeping this window open as I watch familiar of Zero I guess
<b-eltzner> thanks for the informative topic!
<WebbyIT> smartboyhw, seems that someone reads the topic ;)
<smartboyhw> WebbyIT, \o/
<`z> always those annoying people who come in and don't read the topic
<`z> flood them with fifty lines of the topic!
<smartboyhw> `z, ..
<sj0rs> 'Z then the IRC will also get DDOS'ed
<smartboyhw> It won't
<smartboyhw> Since we do have topic limitations;)
<sudodus> I cannot connect to https://launchpad.net/
<sudodus> what is the problem?
<wgrant> See /topic
<wgrant> 
<smartboyhw> wgrant, what's that last message?
<smartboyhw> Looks like strange characters-.-
<`z> "SHIFT OUT"
<`z> U+000E
<OkoWsc> any idea if canonicals having issues,ubuntu.com canonical.com launchpad.net all down
<sudodus> OK, thanks, I had to lift my eyes a little. I see now :-)
<wgrant> That was me pushing Ctrl+N twice to switch to another channel, but apparently irssi decided otherwise.
<`z> OkoWsc, looks like it
<OkoWsc> ah just looked at status "[LAUNCHPAD IS DOWN DUE TO A DATACENTRE OUTAGE; WE'RE WORKING ON IT.| Follow Launchpadstatus for future updates. https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus]"
<padcom> Hi there! Do we have any ETA on the DC issue?
<smartboyhw> No.
<sj0rs> This is an absolute outrage!
<smartboyhw> sj0rs, keep calm
<OkoWsc> not the worst,i found out as i was trying to add an ppa
<sj0rs> I meant absolute outage
<salane> LMAO
<sj0rs> Loool
<WebbyIT> :D
<DangerDevil> the internet is down ;-)
<StealthyLoner> The World is broken
<salane> OK we are now being entertained, " carnage and rioting can start now"
<warren-hill> Obviously the internet isn't down as were here
<sj0rs> Ubuntu equals the internet ;)
<salane> :0
<warren-hill> I used to exist outside Ubuntu, maybe I can again
<salane> Move over to the dark side xbuntu
<sj0rs> Learn to automate your servers with ansible in the meantime, it's awesome
<WebbyIT> Keep calm and take a towel ;)
<Maple__> still down?
<Maple__> dammit
<Maple__> :(
<Maple__> On another topic, @launchpadstatus gained, er, 13 new followers in 2 hours.
<salane> lol
<WebbyIT> And if is a plane to have more follower? O.o
<WebbyIT> *plan
<salane> Its a bait and switch just to get new IRC followers
<StealthyLoner> :D
<smartboyhw> Launchpad successfully gained publicity! LOL
<salane> If i hurry maybe i cant get a slashdot post on this.
<WebbyIT> In Italy there is a saying that is about "Good or bad, important thing is speaking about it"
<yousdo> ciao a tutti io vado ;)
<Naughx> Hi!
<smartboyhw> Naughx, if you want to ask about why LP is down, see topic:P If otherwise, welcome:)
<Naughx> Just came to say hi :D
<WebbyIT> so, hi to you too :D
<ygt> hello everyone ^^
<ygt> LAUNCHPAD IS DOWN.. i guess that answer my question :D
<Maple__> There's also 36 more people in here compared to two hours ago
<Maple__> ...make that 38.
<smartboyhw> ygt, at least you read the topic, that's great:D
<Maple__> And @launchpadstatus gained another follower in 10 mins.
<WebbyIT> Also @ubuntu mail aliases are offline, right?
<dev-seven> ubuntuforums.org seems to be down aswell
 * smartboyhw never uses these aliases even he has three @ubuntu + flavours aliases, so he doesn't know.
<smartboyhw> dev-seven, true
<WebbyIT> dev-seven, if you need support use askubuntu.com or ubuntu-discourse.org
<ygt> out of curiosity is gnome.org down too? i cant reach it
<dev-seven> can't reach gnome.org either
<Naughx> gnome.org is down too :o
<ygt> Y2K bug on linux 13 years late? :O
<WebbyIT> I think is not related O.o
<dev-seven> webby, thx, but I'll wait for launchpad to be online again
<Dryvnt> I understand shit happens, and I understand that the right people are working on it, but damnit this is not a good time D:
<dev-seven> hehe, soon there will be conspiracy theories floating^^
<Naughx> archive.ubuntu.com works at least :P
<sj0rs> Is launchpad down?
<dev-seven> yea
<WebbyIT> sj0rs, no, is onlu a dream :P
<WebbyIT> *only
<sj0rs> lol
<ygt> wait... today is the 21? two 1 = 11... 11-2 = 9! is it a new 911? alien are asking for help on the internet??
<dev-seven> lol
<dev-seven> does anyone have any idea when we can expect launchpad to be up again?
<Naughx> I would like to meet a friendly alien :P
<beuno> no news yet
<beuno> so we don't know
<Naughx> https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus
<WebbyIT> 09/2013, 9+20+13=42, that is answer to everything ;)
<Dryvnt> A bit of an out-of-there question, but does anyone have any idea of how I can get boot-repair through another source than launchpad? <.<
<Dryvnt> Kiinda need to fix my laptop
<barry_> does launchpad being down have anything to do with ddebs.ubuntu.com also being unreachable?
<beuno> Dryvnt, if there's a package in ubuntu, maybe by apt-getting the source?
<ygt> La vita, l'universo e tutto quanto
<wgrant> barry_: Yes, one of the London DCs is mostly dead.
<beuno> barry_, most of the DC seems down
<Naughx> @Dryvnt, from sources: http://sourceforge.net/projects/boot-repair/
<WebbyIT> ygt, credo dovresti parlare in inglese su un canale inglese :P
<barry_> wgrant, beuno bummer!  thanks for the info (also explains why the us mirrors are happy)
<ygt> WebbyIT, yup (da che pulpito :P )
<smartboyhw> Looks like some KDE servers are down too -.-
<nerdux> hi... that was just what I was coming to ask you guys, any news on the subject? like when is it going to be up again?
<beuno> no news
<Naughx> @Dryvnt... forget it...
<nerdux> thanks
<ygt> but we came out with some good conspiracy theory about that!
<nerdux> lol which is it?
<ygt> alien asking for help and the answer to every questions 42
<nerdux> g'damned aliens
<nerdux> they must have made an alliance with the evil forces... i mean bill gates, not darth vader
<Dryvnt> What, Naughx?
<dev-seven> the NSA must be involved somehow aswell
<Naughx> @ygt, no they wants to mix their genetical materials with yours.
<Dryvnt> I had to go do some things. I'll into the sources. Thanks
<Naughx> @Dryvnt, I though they were hosted on sourceforge... They're only hosted on launchpad... My mistake.
<Dryvnt> Oooh. Yeah I couldn't find them after looking a bit. Oh well
<ScottK> smartboyhw: Canonical hosts some of the KDE servers.
<Dryvnt> Guess I'll just wait
<smartboyhw> ScottK, really? Oh no....
<dev-seven> I think sometimes you can also use grub & an ubuntu live usb
<ScottK> Yes.  It's quite nice of them to do so.
<smartboyhw> ScottK, not when it's down. Anyhow
<ScottK> Sure.
<Naughx> @Dryvnt... I've found something: http://sourceforge.net/projects/boot-repair-cd/files/?source=navbar I think it's a livecd with boot-repair. (If you want to download ~500mbish)
<wgrant> LP is sorta back now. Things will be a bit shaky for a while.
<Dryvnt> @Naughx Ah, fantastic. I'll get that on an USB ASAP. Thanks!
<smartboyhw> wgrant, \o/
<Dryvnt> I won't, lol!
<WebbyIT> \o/ thanks for the funny guys :P
<`z> shaky it is, 503s and stuff occasionally
<dev-seven> well, I haven't had any success so far :S
<arowla_> are there any mirrors we can connect to during the outage?
<sj0rs> Thank god the apt-get servers are not affected
<smartboyhw> No success
<sj0rs> Lol mirrors
<`z> mine works for the most part
<wgrant> Which pages aren't working?
<`z> only sometimes i hit the down errors
<Maple__> 6 more followers. -.-
<smartboyhw> Hmm, first success
<Maple__> 503 now.
<dev-seven> ahh, the ppa works now, but the webpage gives 'Please try again'
<sj0rs> There is light at the end of the tunnel
<Naughx> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ and if you're on mint packages.linuxmint.com
<sj0rs> New 503 error, yes! Progress!!
<nerdux> it's working... or so it seems
<nerdux> just added a new ppa here
<dev-seven> yea, same and sucessfully downloaded wine1.6 :D
<nerdux> +1
<fensilent> works :D
<ygt> PPA added
<ygt> :)
<nerdux> just upgraded ninja-ide... success!
<kshitij8_> ssh failed during bzr push. :(
<WebbyIT> kshitij8_, I just make a push and it works :)
<Maple__> ValueError: No JSON object could be decoded
<Maple__> fush dosh rash
<kshitij8_> I'm still getting a timeout during push.
<Maple__> W: GPG error: http://ppa.launchpad.net precise Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 65A5BA84FD316B5D
<Maple__> FUSSH DOOSH RAAASH
<smartboyhw> That's a fail
<dev-seven> well, I got my ppa package, I hope you guys will get your services up again soon too. @launchpadteam: great work, keep it up :D
<Knuckle> anything going on with launchpad.net?
<Knuckle> ive been unable to reach it about 75% of the times I tried in the past half hour or so
<blast007> Knuckle: topic...
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: LP is on the way back after a datacentre outage | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<Knuckle> ah, silly me
<Maple__> åå¯ç itlookslikelaunchpadisback æ³äººå¦ä¹°ä»åå¶ä»ä¸ªä¸åå¦ä½ çè¨ianç¹äººç±³çº³ç»¿è²é¿éç´ å¬å¦ä¸é¥¿é¿è¡å¬é¿å¿å¡«å®ä½è®©èªé¤åé¿è¡åææä»åä¸æ¶è´æ¯ç¹itselfstillgivinga503error
<Maple__> fu language support
<Maple__> ...evil toilets?
<winb> When I click Download Now on http://ubuntu-tweak.com/ im directed to this irc-channel.
<winb> Oh wait. Now it works
<winb> I should have read the topic
<JackYu> sometimes work, sometimes not:(
<ajay> Hi, since LP is down, does that mean I cannot add new repositories? (just checking if this is the reason I have errors )
<smartboyhw> ajay, it's back BTW
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> So, you can use it
<kshitij8_> push finally worked :)
<ajay> thanks smartboyhw! let me try one more time
<ygt> TYALL for the fun and the help! great job LP ty! have fun everyone
<ajay> it works! thanks a lot! :-)
<Maple__> "13.5 kB/s 2h 14min 22s"
<Maple__> slow... ?
<slowjoe> might be worth sending out a tweet update.  Well done on getting it back up
<wgrant> I will once we've confirmed that everything's stable again.
<wgrant> Still resolving a few issues.
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<ScottK> wgrant: You could tweet "LP: Mostly not dead"
<czajkowski> ScottK: https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus/status/381454285013139456
<Maple__> Overall, the @launchpadstatus twitter account gained 26 followers ;)
#launchpad 2013-09-22
<shadeslayer> could someone cancel this recipe build https://code.launchpad.net/~blue-shell/+archive/taskmanager-qml/+recipebuild/545671
#launchpad 2014-09-15
<david3> hi i have a question about a mistake i made on bugs.launchpad.net, can anybody help me?
<cjwatson> hggdh: done
<jochensp> Hi, I get "virtual memory exhausted: Cannot allocate memory" when trying to compile on PPA, any way to increase the limit?
<cjwatson> jochensp: Only for the pool as a whole.  Which build is this?
<cjwatson> PPA builders have 4 GiB of RAM per guest, which generally seems enough for any sensible build ...
<cjwatson> david3: helps to say what the mistake was :-)
<jochensp> cjwatson: https://launchpad.net/~v-launchpad-jochen-sprickerhof-de/+archive/ubuntu/pcl/+build/6366005/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.pcl-1.7_1.7.2-1%2Btrusty4_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<cjwatson> jochensp: the compiler rather than the linker; that's novel, though I suppose that's also C++ ... can you find out roughly how much memory that process takes, e.g. by compiling on a different system and watching it in top?
<cjwatson> I don't know if we'll be able to do anything about the limit, but we should at least find out how far short we are
<cjwatson> also it would be worth experimenting to see if different optimisation levels and such bring it within 4GiB
<jochensp> cjwatson: will do after lunch
<wgrant> cjwatson, jochensp: There's also the issue that something needing more than 4GiB of VM will never be able to build on 32-bit architectures.
<jochensp> wgrant: only zhe amd64 build fails
<wgrant> Ah
<david3> well, i wanted to subscribe to a bug, but i clicked on the wrong button (set information type to: Public -> Public Security), i immediately undid my changes, but the log of the change is still in the     â pgraner
<david3>                   | description. Can i somehow remove my changes from the log?
<wgrant> david3: It's not possible to remove items from the activity log. They're not doing any damage.
<david3> thank you, ok, i just didn't want to appear in a public log as a total noob ;)
<sergio-br2> hey
<sergio-br2> i'm trying to compile a package with gcc 4.8 in utopic, and it has a -fstack-protector-strong parameter
<sergio-br2> but this parameter was added only in gcc 4.9, right?
<sergio-br2> x86_64-linux-gnu-g++-4.8: error: unrecognized command line option '-fstack-protector-strong'
<sergio-br2> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/184914518/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-amd64.dinothawr_1.0%2Br379~6~ubuntu14.10.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dobey> sergio-br2: well, you can't use options only availabile in >= 4.9, with 4.8
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> but that option is automatically
<dobey> automatically from where?
<sergio-br2> do i have to force with -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 ?
<sergio-br2> i didn't override the dh_auto_build in the rules
<dobey> sergio-br2: you should probably ask in #ubuntu-devel about the default compiler options in ubuntu. launchpad doesn't pick them
<sergio-br2> hum, ok
<dobey> so if those are the default options for 4.9 and are being applied when using 4.8, then either you need to do something extra, or there's a bug in debhelper maybe
#launchpad 2014-09-16
<rbasak> Links to download source files from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue are http, not https. But https does work. Is this a bug?
<amartin> Hello, I'm attempting to build a package for precise, the i386 version succeeds but the amd64 version fails: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/185023130/buildlog_ubuntu-precise-amd64.libusbx_2%3A1.0.17-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<amartin> touch build-arch-deb-stamp dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
<amartin> seems like a pretty cryptic error - any ideas on where I should look?
<amartin> the PPA is here: https://launchpad.net/~xespackages/+archive/ubuntu/virtualization-testing
<cjwatson> amartin: The real error is a bit further back
<cjwatson> /bin/bash: doxygen: command not found
<amartin> ah, so I probably need doxygen listed in Build-Depends?
<cjwatson> amartin: Looks like doxygen needs to be moved from Build-Depends-Indep to Build-Depends, indeed.  I think this is because precise's dpkg-dev toolchain doesn't fully support the newer build-indep scheme
<amartin> ah, okay that makes sense
<amartin> cjwatson: thanks for the help!
<cjwatson> np
<amartin> I'm attempting to build a package which requires a newer version of libfdt1 than is available on precise, however trusty has the newer version:
<amartin> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/libfdt1
<amartin> this package does not have a debian directory with it - how can this be built on launchpad (or should I just create my own)?
<cjwatson> Every source package built in Launchpad has a debian directory, but you may be looking in the wrong place.
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/device-tree-compiler
<amartin> cjwatson: I don't see it listed on the device-tree-compiler page either
<dobey> device-tree-compiler *is* the source package
<dobey> apt-get source device-tree-compiler, or bzr branch lp:ubuntu/device-tree-compiler will get you the latest version in ubuntu
<dobey> (well, the latter will assuming that the tree is actually updated)
<dobey> or pull-lp-source $sourcepkgname
<amartin> dobey: yes, but don't I need a debian directory in order to publish it? To tell it which binary packages to build and the other deb metadata?
<dobey> amartin: apt-get source gets the source package, not the binaries
<dobey> and the bzr branch will have debian/ in it as well
<dobey> another option is that it's possible to just copy packages from the ubuntu archive to a different series in a ppa, as well
<cjwatson> amartin: right, I can assure you the directory you're looking for is in the source package there
<cjwatson> amartin: but as dobey says, you might just want to copy it.  bzr branch lp:ubuntu-archive-tools, then in the resulting directory, ./copy-package --from=ubuntu --from-suite=trusty --to=~xespackages/ubuntu/virtualization-testing --to-suite=precise device-tree-compiler
<cjwatson> that'll copy the source package from trusty into your PPA and rebuild it for precise
<cjwatson> (if you wanted to copy the binaries as well you could add the -b option, but I wouldn't personally do that when copying backwards in series order; also you can only do a source-only rebuilding copy like this once for a given PPA and thereafter you'll need to actually upload something, but hopefully this is all you need)
<amartin> cjwatson: okay, thanks for the clarification
#launchpad 2014-09-18
<zara> hi
<zara> someone here to help?
<ersi> !ask
<ubot5> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<zara> ok, ty
<ersi> np
<zara> when i do sudo apt-get update i get following error message
<zara> http://ppa.launchpad.net/openshot.developers/ppa/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-i386/Packages
<zara> failed to fetch http://...
<zara> and Error 404
<zara> Not found
<zara> and
<zara> Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/openshot.developers/ppa/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found
<zara> how can i solve this?
<cjwatson> The maintainers of that PPA haven't published anything for trusty.
<cjwatson> You either need to get them to do so, or amend the appropriate apt configuration (probably somewhere under /etc/apt/sources.list.d/) to use the latest series available in that PPA, which is currently quantal according to https://launchpad.net/~openshot.developers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages
<cjwatson> (I don't know whether that will work, but there's at least some chance)
<zara> ok, i will try it now - thank you!
<cjwatson> you're welcome
#launchpad 2014-09-19
<dpasqualin_> Hello! I would like to know what is currently being used to manage the .deb packages used in Ubuntu. What developers use to publish new packages to the official repository..
<dpasqualin_> We have a ubuntu based distribution in Brazil called "Educational Linux", and we are using reprepro and some scripts made by us to control developers access to the different repositories we have, but I feel like there should be something better out there. =P
<shadeslayer> dpasqualin_: there's dak
<shadeslayer> dpasqualin_: but Ubuntu uses Launchpad
<mapreri> dpasqualin_: ubuntu infra is something complex. Packages are managed through launchpad. That said everything and nothing, I know, but that it. Maybe debian infra is a bit simpler: They use dak to handle packages, which is far simpler than the whole launchpad
<shadeslayer> hah
<shadeslayer> dak
<shadeslayer> simpler
<shadeslayer> you're joking right
<mapreri> "simpler"...
<shadeslayer> dak has hard coded release strings
<shadeslayer> etc etc
<dpasqualin_> I see..
<mapreri> I know, but I strong believe that deploy a new dak instance is far easier that a new launchpad...
<dpasqualin_> I'll have a look at dak then
<mapreri> than*
<shadeslayer> I would really not recommend dak
<dpasqualin_> thanks mapreri =P
<dpasqualin_> can you explain why not, and what would you suggest instead?
<shadeslayer> see above wrt hard coded release strings
<mapreri> I would stick with reprepro, but I don't know how well it handle thousand of packages...
<shadeslayer> likewise
<shadeslayer> dpasqualin_: I'd recommend talking to ximion about dak
<shadeslayer> since he set it up for tanglu
<mapreri> "dak is the collection of programs used to maintain the Debian project's archives.  It's not yet in a state where it can be easily used by others; if you want something to maintain a small archive and apt-ftparchive (from the apt-utils package) is insufficient, I strongly recommend you investigate mini-dinstall, debarchiver or similar. However, if you insist on trying to try using dak, please read the documentation in 'doc/README.first'."
<cjwatson> as the non-industrial-scale ones go, reprepro is pretty good AFAICS
<dpasqualin_> humm, ok
<dpasqualin_> have you guys heard of aptly?
<cjwatson> not previously
<dpasqualin_> it seems pretty straightforward to use. It doesn't manage user permissions, but neither does reprepro..
<dpasqualin_> Here we manage the repos like this. In the server where the repos are we have one system user for each repo. Each user has an authorized_keys file stating who can publish in the repository, which has the same name of the user. So in order to publish in, lets say, le5-stable, the developer would do "scp le5-stable@reposerver package.deb". The server has a script called by ssh when someone does the scp, which than triggers reprepro to publish the
<dpasqualin_> incoming package in the right place.
<dpasqualin_> What do you think about this workflow?
<mapreri> umh, I hope you definitely trust the developers to do not screw up everything....
<dpasqualin_> The developers can only publish on unstable and testing repos. When I feel like the package are mature enough I than tranfer it to the stable repository.
<mapreri> or that you have a script that validate the .debs (checks the suites, for instance)
<dpasqualin_> we do have
<dpasqualin_> It's just that, this was done by some coworkers 8 years ago, I thought there would be something more automated nowadays.
<dpasqualin_> ppa are pretty nice, but my research group prefers to keep the packages in our own server.
<dpasqualin_> well, anyway, thank you very much for the tips!
<mapreri> well, 8 years... maybe it's worth taking a look at really complex infra like lp and dak... maybe, just look at them (don't dig too much, or you will get lost ;) )
<cjwatson> I would strongly recommend not having developers do manual binary uploads
<cjwatson> upload source only and autobuild
<dpasqualin_> good point
<cjwatson> you obviously need a back door for bootstrapping circular build-dependencies and the like, but that's better handled by having a way for a small group of privileged people to inject binaries that satisfy build-dependencies, rather than by actually injecting binaries directly
<dpasqualin_> I see
<dpasqualin_> I have one more question, if this is not the right place maybe someone can say where should I ask. How is the .iso the ubuntu releases build?
<dpasqualin_> Is there any software to help on this? We also use some scripts that doesn't always work =P
<mapreri> dpasqualin_: only cjwatson can give you a complete response, but mybe this can guide you: http://askubuntu.com/questions/95190/what-is-an-ubuntu-localized-image-and-how-do-i-create-one (look at the ubuntu-defaults-builder package and the in particular at ubuntu-defaults-image(1))
<mapreri> (I said maybe)
<cjwatson> "bzr branch lp:ubuntu-cdimage" plus the bits in the resulting configs/devel, and they use Launchpad to do the live image builds that form a major part of it
<dpasqualin_> Great, thanks!
<mapreri> dpasqualin_: I was reading the manpage of reprepro (for my stuff) and I saw a Uploaders field that could definitely help you handling permissions (I wasn't aware of it)
<dpasqualin_> mapreri: thanks!
#launchpad 2014-09-20
<Akiva-Thinkpad> how do I propose a branch that has been pushed, to be merged into trunk, from the commandline?
<wgrant> Akiva-Thinkpad: You could use 'bzr lp-propose', but most people use the web UI.
<Akiva-Thinkpad> wgrant, thanks
<Akiva-Thinkpad> ordinarily I do
<Akiva-Thinkpad> but this is a library import update across all the core apps
<Akiva-Thinkpad> qtquick 2.0 to 2.3... I am not gonna visit that website a dozen times  :P
<Guest2520> I cant get master to build on trusty, dont know what i am doing wrong
<Guest2520> NOTE: Speech support requires speech-dispatcher >= 0.8.
<Guest2520> Use speech-dispatcher: no
<Guest2520> oops
#launchpad 2014-09-21
<__marco> Hello! Does launchpad offer a service to build .deb packages?
<__marco> I need to rebuild qemu for 14.04 with vde support but I don't have any machine with 14.04
<sergio-br2> hi
<sergio-br2> i'm using wget command, to get a file from here https://raw.githubusercontent.com/libretro/libretro-super/master/dist/info/mednafen_pce_fast_libretro.info
<sergio-br2> if i run debuild here, the packaging works
<sergio-br2> but in launchpad farm wget does not works
<sergio-br2> Resolving raw.githubusercontent.com (raw.githubusercontent.com)... failed: Name or service not known.
<sergio-br2> wget: unable to resolve host address 'raw.githubusercontent.com'
<mapreri> sergio-br2: networking is not available in launchpad buildd (per debian policy)
<sergio-br2> there is no way to enable?
<mapreri> sergio-br2: no
<mapreri> sergio-br2: depending on something on the network for the build is bad. do not do it.
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> well, this file is in other repository, different from the source of package
<sergio-br2> so i will have to create other package, kind of common for other packages
<mapreri> sergio-br2: that's the solution, yes
<sergio-br2> ok, thanks
#launchpad 2015-09-14
<Odd_Bloke> I'm hitting a failed to upload on https://launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/+livefs/ubuntu/wily/cpc/+build/37706
<Odd_Bloke> I've managed to do it twice now, so I don't think it was a random failure.
<Odd_Bloke> I'm playing around with the files that I output from live-build, so it's probably something to do with that.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: wgrant: Can you shed any light on why I'm hitting ^?
<wgrant> Let me see.
<wgrant> UploadFailed: Invalid length: 0
<wgrant> Odd_Bloke: You have an empty file, which makes the librarian sad.
<wgrant> I thought we excluded those in launchpad-buildd, but maybe not.
<Odd_Bloke> OK, that's easy enough to remedy.
<Odd_Bloke> wgrant: Ta.
<cjwatson> wgrant: I think I was a little reluctant to possibly end up papering over problems by ignoring such things.
<cjwatson> Though the OOPS of course isn't ideal.
<wgrant> Indeed.
<jgdx> I can't assign/change status on bugs. Known issue?
<jgdx> OOPS-ca98aa95bdece3ad7bf7accced65c91d is one example
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-ca98aa95bdece3ad7bf7accced65c91d
<jgdx> the js error also comes back as a html-page, so it's hard to read the error: http://i.imgur.com/8EvY2uU.png
<cjwatson> jgdx: We get occasional reports of this, and don't know the exact cause, but it normally clears up quite quickly
<cjwatson> It's a very slow UPDATE on the BugTask table, probably a long transaction somewhere else ...
<wgrant> Not exactly: https://lpstats.canonical.com/graphs/AppServer5XXsLpnet/20150908/20150915/
<wgrant> Something is up.
<wgrant> Some Ubuntu bug searches timing out.
<wgrant> It's possible that a particular scripted search has fallen off a cliff and those long queries are somehow causing contention.
<cjwatson> Worth a pg_stat_activity check?
<pc_m> Hi! Anyone else noticing issues with launchpad? I'm trying to create a bug under neutron, and get an "Uh oh!" message repeatedly.
<wgrant> It probably won't show anything, but worth a try.
<jgdx> cjwatson, okay. I know there's the occational hiccup, but this is now 100% of the time.
<cjwatson> pc_m: That's the current discussion.
<pc_m> cjwatson: Ah, just joined channel.
<pc_m> cjwatson: FYI, it complained about load balancer timing out. After 4th try, it created the bug.
<pc_m> I did the reload button, and once it did work, it created multiple instanced (so looked like each request did work).
<cjwatson> Hammering it isn't going to give us additional information at this point
<wgrant> jgdx, pc_m: It should be OK now, let us know if you have any more issues.
<wgrant> One of our DB slaves went a little overboard.
<jgdx> wgrant, the failing action now completed. Thanks!
<wgrant> Great, thanks for confirming.
<Odd_Bloke> https://launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/+livefs/ubuntu/wily/cpc/+build/37714 seems to be stuck; can anyone shed light on why that might be?
<Odd_Bloke> (https://launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/+livefs/ubuntu/wily/cpc/+build/37717 is also stuck in the same place, for confirmation)
<Odd_Bloke> wgrant: ^ ?
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: Do you have a similar build already that you've cancelled to see what the unflushed tail of the log says?
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: I don't; cancelling that one now.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: Cancellation finished a couple of minutes ago, but no build log yet.  Am I just being impatient?
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: It failed to cancel and gave up.
<cjwatson> So that's unfortunate.
<cjwatson> This usually means that you managed to crash the builder somehow.
<Odd_Bloke> The only difference that this run should have amounts to "cp chroot/boot/vmlinuz-4.2.0-7-generic livecd.vmlinuz-generic.kernel" in a binary hook.
 * cjwatson peers at the custom livecd-rootfs
<Odd_Bloke> Hmm, does the builder blow up on unexpected suffixes?  That rings a very vague bell from last time I was playing with this sort of stuff?
<cjwatson> No, my guess is that the copied files aren't readable by the builder.
<Odd_Bloke> Ah, that's probably a better guess.
<cjwatson> Notice that livecd-rootfs/live-build/auto/build does chmod 644 in similar situations.
<cjwatson> In fact, why doesn't the existing stuff in live-build/auto/build work for you?
<cjwatson> It's doing pretty similar stuff to copy out kernels.
<Odd_Bloke> Oh, I must have missed it.
<cjwatson> The only difference is that you need to explicitly list the flavours you want in the project declaration in live-build/auto/config.
<cjwatson> And it also handles initrds and signed images.
<Odd_Bloke> Oh, hmph.
<Odd_Bloke> We _were_ using our own fork of live-build and still doing this outside of live-build.
<Odd_Bloke> So I guess my assumption that we had to do it outside of live-build doesn't hold.
<cjwatson> I think this kind of interaction with the buildd belongs in livecd-rootfs rather than live-build.
<cjwatson> Albeit in its live-build hooks.
<Odd_Bloke> Yeah, that looks precisely like what we need.
<cjwatson> You definitely want to modify live-build/auto/config to set up the config you need.
<cjwatson> Every distinct "project" field passed to a livefs build should have such a thing.
<cjwatson> Oh, but ubuntu-cpc is already in there, OK.
<Odd_Bloke> Yeah, we're already doing most of our stuff there sensibly; I'd just missed that we could do this with configuration rather than custom hooks.
<cjwatson> So it probably just needs to set KERNEL_FLAVOURS.
<cjwatson> Yeah, just hadn't realised it was in trunk rather than in your delta, good.
<Odd_Bloke> Well, at least I've learned more about the difference between binary and chroot hooks this morning. :p
<cjwatson> Heh
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: Ah, that isn't working because it's looking in binary/boot which only contains filesystem.ext4, filesystem.packages and filesystem.packages-remove in our builds.
<Odd_Bloke> Which I think would only work if LB_CHROOT_FILESYSTEM was none.
<Odd_Bloke> Because all of the other code paths in lb_binary_rootfs just shove a file there.
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: I think it's because you're using --linux-packages=none, which disables the relevant code path in lb_binary_linux-image.
<Odd_Bloke> Aha, that looks promising.
<cjwatson> Surely either you need to copy them out or you have no kernel packages installed, but not both. :-)
<cjwatson> In fact you have KERNEL_FLAVOURS=none in that same section, so those probably need to be changed together.
<cjwatson> --linux-packages defaults to "linux" on Ubuntu, so you should probably instead set KERNEL_FLAVOURS in the per-architecture case statement and drop the manual installation of linux-*.
<cjwatson> I think.
<cjwatson> Though maybe linux-virtual doesn't correspond to the kernel image name, so that might still need some work.
<cjwatson> Maybe that's why you have this stuff to begin with.
<Odd_Bloke> I remember there being some pain around this before, but I don't remember precisely what problems I was seeing.
<Odd_Bloke> But, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to get a definite reminder in a few minutes time. :p
<cjwatson> So that might in fact be reasonable cause for a cpc-specific hook, but I'd probably do it by doing something in line with what lb_binary_linux-image would do if you could persuade it to DTRT without also changing the behaviour of lb_chroot_linux-image in undesirable ways.
<cjwatson> Since that code is simpler.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: At the moment, we publish the tab-delimited file that is produced by that hook, which is why it was happening in that somewhat circumspect way.
<cjwatson> That seems of dubious utility when the manifest is there as well.
<cjwatson> So, I mean, the trivial fix is to chmod 644, just wondering if it could be done better.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: Yes, indeed.  Sadly we have to maintain that interface for trusty.
<Odd_Bloke> I'm building a livecd-rootfs package with some different kernel options, I'll see what that does.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: Yeah, your suspicious is correct; we either fail to find something named *linux-virtual* in /boot or we install linux-generic in the image.
<Odd_Bloke> *suspicion
<Odd_Bloke> So tomorrow I'll look at rewriting that hook in a less hidious fashion.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: Hmm, alternatively I could teach the part of live-build that 'virtual' kernels are named 'generic' in /boot.
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: I don't know which is better.  Your call.
#launchpad 2015-09-15
<sethj> Due to a versioning error on my part when I try to upload an updated package to my PPA launchpad rejects it because a source file in PPA already has that version number. I deleted the affected packages but I'm still receiving the error. Do I need to do something else, or just wait longer?
<wgrant> sethj: You can't change the contents of a package without also changing the version.
<wgrant> You will need to increment the version number.
<sethj> grr, the new version is correct, the old one was wrong :(
<sethj> wgrant, would it be possible to delete the PPA and then reopen it with the same name and then upload?
<wgrant> sethj: You could, but version numbers are cheap...
<sethj> At this point that would (potentially) be easier than repackaging with an incrementing version number.. (unless I'm missing an easy way to rename the source file)
<wgrant> mv
<sethj> wgrant, the problem is it isn't my software, so that's not exactly my choice.
<wgrant> What's the difficulty?
<wgrant> It's the version number in the packaging that's the problem.
<sethj> well I was thinking bzr would throw a fit if I just used mv.
<wgrant> The package management system doesn't care what the software calls itself.
<sethj> I realize that.
<sethj> Maybe I'm too picky.
<wgrant> bzr doesn't track the tarball in any version control scheme that I know of.
<sethj> ah, cool then.
<wgrant> mv foo_1.2.3.orig.tar.gz foo_1.2.3+really.orig.tar.gz
<wgrant> dch -e, fix the version from 1.2.3-1 to 1.2.3+really-1
<wgrant> That should be all you need.
<sethj> That didn't work.
<sethj> You see
<sethj> Everything but the .orig.tar.gz files are package_2.1-0ubuntu1 (the PPA has 0ubuntu0), it's the orig.tar.gz file that is causing the error.
<wgrant> Right, so rename everything 2.1+oops-0ubuntu1, or similar.
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-0ubuntu1
<wgrant> You need to change the orig tarball version, which is the bit before the -
<wgrant> The version number of the .dsc and .debian.tar.gz is defined by debian/changelog
<wgrant> So rename the tarball and fix debian/changelog, and all should be good.
<sethj> yeah but none of that changed the orig.tar.gz
<sethj> I tried editing the filename directly, but then dput thew a fit.
<sethj> maybe rename it and then rebuild the package?
<wgrant> Hmmm?
<wgrant> You need to rename the orig.tar.gz yourself.
<wgrant> Then change debian/changelog
<wgrant> Then build and upload the package.
<sethj> okay, so that's what I missed.
<sethj> I didn't rebuild.
<wgrant> dput just reads the .changes and uploads the files mentioned in it.
<wgrant> It doesn't know what a changelog is :)
<wgrant> So it can't notice changes to the changelog.
<sethj> ah
<sethj> my bad.
<sethj> Looks like it is working now. Thank you wgrant!
<wgrant> Great
<wgrant> Let me know if you run into any more trouble.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: wgrant: Could you mark https://launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/+livefs/ubuntu/wily/cpc as non-virtualised, please?
<wgrant> Odd_Bloke: It is done.
<Odd_Bloke> wgrant: Danke.
<Odd_Bloke> wgrant: Should I still be seeing my armhf builds (for example) building on lgw01-*?
<Odd_Bloke> (https://launchpad.net/~daniel-thewatkins/+livefs/ubuntu/wily/cpc/+build/37836, for example.)
<Odd_Bloke> I'm seeing failures with a missing /usr/bin/env which I vaguely recall being related to being on a virtualised builder (though my memory may be lying to me).
<wgrant> Odd_Bloke: No, that's still building virtualised.
<wgrant> Oh, the PPA needs to be devirt too, I guess.
<wgrant> I can do that if you want.
<Odd_Bloke> wgrant: Oh, yes please.
<Odd_Bloke> I forgot that both were considered.
<wgrant> Odd_Bloke: Done.
<Odd_Bloke> Thanks again.
<Odd_Bloke> Aha, there we go.
<Odd_Bloke> wgrant: I'm not seeing packages I upload to that PPA build for (e.g.) armhf; am I forgetting something else I need to do to get those building?
<wgrant> Odd_Bloke: Oh, I'd forgotten livecd-rootfs was arch: any. I'll enable armhf, but do you want all arches?
<Odd_Bloke> wgrant: Yes please.
<Odd_Bloke> wgrant: I had a look using lp-shell and couldn't see any, but is there a way of seeing what arches are enabled for a PPA?
<wgrant> Odd_Bloke: Done. You'll need to reupload.
<wgrant> Or recopy, in fact.
<wgrant> Odd_Bloke: archive.processors
<Odd_Bloke> wgrant: Aha, great.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: wgrant: One thing we need in our images is /etc/cloud/build.info which includes a serial (which, obviously, changes for each build). Is there a way that we can pass data in to the livefs.requestBuild call that we could consume during the live-build process?
<Odd_Bloke> A brief examination of buildlivefs suggests not.
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: can you just use NOW which already exists?
<cjwatson> for this very purpose
<cjwatson> echo "BUILDSTAMP=\"$NOW\"" >> config/binary
<Odd_Bloke> Our serials are currently <DATE>.N where N is the index of the build during that day (when N>0).
<Odd_Bloke> And we'd need to maintain that for trusty.
<cjwatson> So, if you really had to maintain exactly that format (I decided it was not necessary to maintain it in cdimage), we could do that, but it'd take a launchpad-buildd rollout
<Odd_Bloke> I mean, we don't use SUBPROJECT for anything. *looks around shiftily*
<cjwatson> haha
<cjwatson> I wonder if it would make sense to let the livefs and livefs.requestBuild metadata override the build arguments precomputed by LP
<cjwatson> at least for datestamp
<cjwatson> then you could pass metadata_override={"datestamp": whatever}
<cjwatson> the only other place that lands is in /etc/media-info
<cjwatson> and I'm guessing you wouldn't in fact object to that being consistent
<cjwatson> or we could just make livefs.requestBuild take a version argument
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: can you file a bug on Launchpad for this, in any case?
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: Against Launchpad itself?
<cjwatson> yes
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: That's https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1496074
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1496074 in Launchpad itself "Enable passing version information to livefs builds" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> Thanks
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: You'd be OK using NOW / BUILDSTAMP if you could override it?
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: I believe so, yes.
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: all right, will get that fixed for you, hopefully this week
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: Thanks!
<pgquiles_> sorry if it's obvious but, whats wrong with my code? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12419392/ Apparently it does not get any bugs from Launchpad :-?
<cjwatson> pgquiles_: You can't iterate over the whole bug collection.  You can pick a bug target and iterate over bugs on that.
<cjwatson> Or search for something.
<pgquiles_> cjwatson: what do you mean by "a bug target"? (that code was taken straing out of the wiki: https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib#Collections )
<pgquiles_> ah, now I see what a bug_target is
<nottrobin> how can I give access to push to git repositories to someone who isn't the project owner?
<wgrant> nottrobin: The project owner doesn't have any special access to Git repositories. The owner of the Git repository is a separate setting, and it is that person or team that has push access.
<nottrobin> wgrant: thanks. is there any way to grant access to anyone else apart from the git repository owner?
<wgrant> nottrobin: Not at this stage, though we'll likely be adding that functionality when we introduce customisable per-branch permissions.
<nottrobin> wgrant: great
<cjwatson> nottrobin: It's usually best, for now, to just make the repository owned by a suitable team.
<nottrobin> cjwatson: aye. In this case, I'm trying to update the git repo from a script, and I don't want the script to have all the team permissions
<wgrant> Many projects have a special committers team which doesn't have general project access, it just owns the repos.
<nottrobin> yeah I could play around with that
<nottrobin> thanks guys
#launchpad 2015-09-16
<jonathon> So I have a build error (Depends: libscalar-list-utils-perl (>= 1:1.42)), but the necessary package (libscalar-list-utils-perl_1.42-1) is in the same PPA. Is 1:1.42-1 >= 1:1.42 ? Log: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/218076469/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.libtext-bibtex-perl_0.71-1~ubuntu14.04.1york2_BUILDING.txt.gz
<jonathon> PPA: https://launchpad.net/~jonathonf/+archive/ubuntu/texlive/+packages
<wgrant> The version in the PPA is actually 1:1.42-1~ubuntu14.04.1york1, which is less than 1:1.42-1, but greater than 1:1.42.
<wgrant> So let me see.
<jonathon> Thank you :)
<wgrant> jonathon: trusty's perl-base declares a Conflicts relationship with libscalar-list-utils-perl
<wgrant> They cannot be installed simultaneously.
<wgrant> And Replaces.
<wgrant> So it's probably not a necessary build dependency.
<wgrant> And Provides too.
<wgrant> If you drop the version constraint from the build dependency it will work.
<wgrant> (perl-base's Provides relationship can satisfy an unversioned dependency, but not a versioned one)
<jonathon> Righty, thank you muchly!
<wgrant> wily's perl-base only conflicts with old versions of the pacakge.
<jonathon> I'll have to check what libtext-bibtex-perl is needed for; I don't really want to have to backport the whole of wily's perl too... :)
<wgrant> Heh, yeah, that'd be unpleasant.
#launchpad 2015-09-17
<sergio-br2> the package compiled, but I got a "failed to build", what's happening here?
<sergio-br2> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/218147312/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.libretro-mgba_0.3.0%2Br18~14~ubuntu14.04.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<sergio-br2> the recipe: https://code.launchpad.net/~libretro/+recipe/mgba-libretro-daily
<sergio-br2> ok, found it
<sergio-br2> "https://launchpadlibrarian.net/218147312/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-amd64.libretro-mgba_0.3.0%2Br18~14~ubuntu14.04.1_BUILDING.txt.gz"
<sergio-br2> ops
<sergio-br2> Since use of implicitly converted pointers is always fatal to the application
<sergio-br2> on ia64, they are errors.  Please correct them for your next upload.
<banix> had a question about searching bugs in launchpad. Is there a way to look for bugs submitted from a certain organization? I tried using partial email addresss as the submitter in advanced search (for example ibm.com) but that does not work. Any way to do this?
<cjwatson> banix: I'm afraid not, and I suspect it wouldn't be a very useful view as people from a given organisation are often working on various projects.  It's probably better to use tags, or perhaps additional project-tracking bug tasks.
<rbasak> In the special case of IBM, there seems to be some kind of bridge that they use so all bugs I deal with from IBM are submitted by the "bugproxy" user.
<banix> cjwatson: thanks for your answer. I use launchpad in OpenStack and was wondering if I could simply track what a group of people (say from my company) were working on rather than creating another system to do that. Any good way of doing such a thing? Any suggestions/pointers is appreciated.
<rbasak> That might just be a specific team within IBM though.
<cjwatson> We wouldn't do matching on e-mail address.  In principle it might be possible to search for all bugs reported by members of a particular team, although that isn't supported today and we'd have to look at whether it's possible to make that perform well.
<cjwatson> I suspect the query would be fairly terrifying ...
<cjwatson> rbasak: I believe that's for certain porting projects, not OpenStack.
<banix> cjwatson: rbasak so are there other tools that can help me? in case you are aware of any. Just donât want to create a new process or a huge overhead for people who file bugs and work on them while I can get a view of what is being worked on, etcâ¦.
<rbasak> You could write a bot that looks up by specific individual submitters and adds a common tag maybe?
<cjwatson> Anything for this type of work will require some assembly on your side.
<banix> cjwatson: yes using a particular team would be helpful but i can imagin how big a querry that would lead to if there are many members of the greoup (assuming the querries will be based on individual members)
<cjwatson> If it's an ongoing thing, you could write a launchpadlib script to search for tasks in various project (or a project group perhaps?) and return bugs with particular reporters.
<banix> cool, will look for info on writing a launchpadlib script
<karni> cjwatson: wgrant: Hi folks. Should I be able to see launchpad.net/projectname/+admin if I'm the project owner, or is this page (with project name and page aliases) visible to launchpad staff only?
<cjwatson> karni: +admin is generally staff only.
<karni> cjwatson: ok, makes sense. is there any way an owner can change project name (url) without contacting staff? (it's okay if the answer's 'No', I just want to know.)
<cjwatson> karni: Afraid not.  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad is the way to request that kind of thing
<cjwatson> It's quick for us to do
<cjwatson> (And let us know whether you need a redirect left behind)
<karni> cjwatson: roger, thank you!
<mapreri> cjwatson: can you also delete a project?  ages ago i registered one while thinking i'd have started a thing, but in the end i did nothing.. i'd prefer to free up the name and everything
<cjwatson> mapreri: Yes, same URL
<mapreri> cool
 * mapreri never bother about it, dunno how it popped in my mind now
<mapreri> ah, so the bottom "this solved my problem" triggers a reply with thanks, clever :P
<dobey> omg this is awful
<dobey> (the library licensing thing)
<teward> dobey: ? (curiousity has piqued)
<dobey> oh wrong channel, doh
<teward> dobey: IRC will do that to you :)
<pgquiles> how come launchpad.distributions["ubuntu"].searchTasks() works (many results) but the more-specific launchpad.distributions["ubuntu"].getSeries(name_or_version="vivid").searchTasks() does not?(it produces zero results) Am I doing something wrong?
<dobey> there are no tasks targeted to vivid that match what you are searching for?
<pgquiles> dobey: I'm searching with no parameters (i. e. I'm not limiting results to something more specific). Also, the same happens with other distro series (precise, lucid, etc).
<wgrant> pgquiles: You always need to pass omit_targeted=False when searching for tasks in a series. It's a bit of a weird API wart.
<pgquiles> wgrant: thanks!
#launchpad 2015-09-18
<Maniglen> HI, I just started an interest group on Launchpad, https://launchpad.net/xbox360 People are complaining there's no 'join' button. How do I do this in Launchpad ?
<Maniglen> It's 4am here , right now - So I shall go to bed and leave this channel open till morning. Answers please (are welcome).
<cjwatson> Odd_Bloke: You should be able to pass version= to livefs.requestBuild now.
<Odd_Bloke> cjwatson: Great, thanks!
<Maniglen> Hi there, I asked a question earlier this morning and never got an  answer.
<Maniglen> I set up a group in Launchpad : https://launchpad.net/xbox360/ but there have been comments that there is no 'join' button. How do I make it so that ppl. can join my group ?
<cjwatson> Maniglen: Your client had timed out and quit by the time I showed up.  You can't join a project, only a team.
<cjwatson> Maniglen: So you should register a team for this, and either make that team be the maintainer or driver of the project, or just link to it in the description.
<Maniglen> How do I set up a team ?
<cjwatson> There's a link on the front page
<Maniglen> Ok got it.
<Maniglen> cheers.
<Maniglen> bye.
<banix> trying to use launchpadlib and accessing https://launchpad.net/neutron So I am trying this: lp = Launchpad.login_anonymously("my client", "https://launchpad.net/neutron") what am i doing wrong?
<dobey> passing in a project URL
<banix> dobey: what should I do instead?
<dobey> don't pass in a project URL
<dobey> see pydoc
<banix> dobey: I want to get to the bugs for this particular project. Can you point me to a document where this is explained? thanks.
<dobey> banix: you are using login_anonymously() wrong. run "pydoc launchpadlib.launchpad.Launchpad.login_anonymously" for the docs on that method
<dobey> once you log in, then you use the lp object itself to access information on launchpad
<banix> dobey: So I can login to say âproductionâ is taht where I want to be? that is throuhj the lp object I can get to a particular project such as the one I mentioned above?
<banix> dobey: let me write this again: I can login to say âproductionâ. Is this where I have to log into? That is to ask if from the lp object I get tthis way, can I get to a particular project such as the one I mentioned above?
<dobey> i think you can just leave off the second argument
<dobey> the default is production iirc
<dobey> project = lp.projects["project"]
<banix> dobey: i see. thanks.
#launchpad 2015-09-19
<sethj> is there a way I can delete a comment on a bug? I accidentally posted a comment on the wrong bug.
<sethj> I see a "hide" button, but I'm not really sure what that does exactly.
<sethj> hmm, well "hiding" it seems to have worked.
<anoob> is there a guide to use git with lauchpad?
<alkisg> Hi, I copied gcompris 15.02-1ubuntu1 to my PPA, in the Wily series, by mistake. What I wanted was to copy it to the Precise series.
<alkisg> I deleted it from the Wily series and I tried to copy it again to Precise, but it says it cannot copy it because:
<alkisg> "Launchpad encountered an error during the following operation: copying a package.  gcompris 15.02-1ubuntu1 in precise (binaries conflicting with the existing ones)"
<alkisg> If I wait a couple of hours, will the old binaries be deleted, and so I'll be able to upload then,
<alkisg> or do I have to reupload with a newer packaging version?
<banix> Using launchpadlib now I can get into the project I am interested in, see the bugs, people, etc. However, when I try to check the email address of people (to find thos belonging to a certain organization) through lp.people[name].confirmed_email_addresses I donât get anything. Am I supposed to be able to get the email address even when I log in annonymously? Or is that why I donât see the email addresses?
#launchpad 2015-09-20
<wgrant> banix: You can never seen email addresses anonymously, and even when logged in you can only see them if the user has allowed it.
<banix> wgrant: thanks for answering. Makes sense. Then I should use login_with instead of login_anonymously?
<banix> wgrant: When I do that, can I authenticate programatically? If I use the login_with I am taken into the interactive interface that is what I donât want
<wgrant> banix: It depends where you're going to run it.
<wgrant> banix: In a desktop environment, the token is stored in the DE's keyring so you only have to log in once.
<wgrant> If you're running it remotely without a DE it will use a standalone file.
<wgrant> When using it over SSH I normally kill the CLI browser that it spawns and open the URL it printed in my desktop browser.
<wgrant> And authorise it there, rather than logging in in w3m.
<wgrant> Once you've authorised a system, further login_withs from there will be non-interactive.
<banix> wgrant: I see; and that first time is done using the gui.
<banix> i mean the web interface
<banix> is there an API where I can provide my user id and password, and get a token or somethinga long that line?
<wgrant> banix: No, but you can open the URL it prints in any browser -- it doesn't need to be on the same system.
<wgrant> It misguidedly opens a browser by default, as if it were on a desktop, but you can just close that.
<banix> wgrant: thanks for being paitient with me. What URL you are referring to and when I open it, what do I get in return and how can I use that in my python script.
<banix> reading the above I think I understand what you are saying. I run my script on an Ubuntu box and it opens a wget screen I believe; so letâs say I authorize there, I can keep the login_with in my script and further runs will go through?
<wgrant> banix: Right, it only prompts the first time.
<wgrant> banix: For subsequent runs it uses the stored token.
<banix> wgrant: thank you for your help. Iâll try what you suggested.
<dobey> banix: you should not rely on the e-mail address of users being visible, or even correct, to verify if they are in a certain organization or not. you should use teams to manage groups of users.
<banix> dobey: yes that makes sense. We have a group but it turned out some of the members have not added themselves to the group; So I played with using email and of course some users donât have their email address available. With the helps I got on this channel, I know a bit to write a couple of scripts.
<banix> dobey: I have been looking for a place where the API for launchpadlib is documented in its entirety. If there is such a place and if you have a pointer handy please share. Thanks again.
<wgrant> banix: https://api.launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html documents the LP API, https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib documents launchpadlib.
<wgrant> banix: launchpadlib reads the machine-parsable API definition provided by launchpad.net and exposes it as Python objects.
<banix> wgrant: Thank you!
#launchpad 2016-09-19
<GunnarHj> On the translation overview pages, e.g. https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+lang/de, the ubuntu-docs package (and other -docs packages) are missing. This is a problem since the translators use it to identify untranslated strings. What has happened? dpm_: Do you know? Anyone else?
<wgrant> GunnarHj: ubuntu-docs' template is named "ubuntu-help", and it's on the third page of that list.
<wgrant> (LP Translations admins can tweak the order on the template's admin page)
<GunnarHj> wgrant: Ouch, it lists the *templates*, not the package names. My mistake. Thanks! (Thanks also for mentioning the order.)
<wgrant> GunnarHj: Right, since a package can have multiple templates it can't trivially list by package.
<GunnarHj> wgrant: Understood. Thanks again.
<acheronuk> Do you know when this is next due? thanks "The job that removes files from disk runs every six hours."
<cjwatson> the exact cron schedule is 0 */6 * * *
<cjwatson> so it will next start in about an hour
<cjwatson> (and it takes several hours to run)
<acheronuk> Good to know. thanks :)
<acheronuk> the package size of this ppa has dropped 2GB, but is still just over it's limit https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/staging-kdeapplications/+packages
<acheronuk> is that likely to clean up any more in this run, or may that be it?
<acheronuk> we are waiting to get a little bit more work in there, just a few rebuilds, but at the moment uploads get rejected due to the oversize
<acheronuk> I guess if that ppa doesn't have any more old sources/binaries cleared, I'll have to ask for a modest size bump. It though it should drop a fair bit below the limit though, considering that amount of cruft I removed
#launchpad 2016-09-20
<Stefan____> Hi, I'm trying to add a ppa to Kubuntu 16.04 with 'sudo add-apt-repository ppa:jonathonf/vim'.
<Stefan____> Output is 'Cannot add PPA: 'ppa:~jonathonf/ubuntu/vim'. ERROR: '~jonathonf' user or team does not exist.'
<Stefan____> Jonathon does not know what is wrong. Can anybody helb me?
<wgrant> Stefan____: What's the exact command you're running?
<acheronuk> 'sudo add-apt-repository ppa:jonathonf/vim' recognises the ppa for me
<Stefan____> perhaps it's a proxy related issue. I'm behind a proxy and have set $http_proxy and $https_proxy.
<Stefan____> Additionally I have set 'Aqueri::http::Proxy "http://...";' in an apt config file
<Stefan____> Does 'add-apt-repository' need anything else concerning proxy
<cjwatson> "Aqueri" isn't the same as the correct spelling "Acquire".  It would really be better if you copied and pasted things (including the exact command that you were asked for above).
<cjwatson> 11:29 <wgrant> Stefan____: What's the exact command you're running?
<cjwatson> Note also that sudo doesn't necessarily pass through proxy environment variables, depending on its configuration.
<Stefan____> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:jonathonf/vim
<Stefan____> apt-get update and upgrade are working
<cjwatson> Try 'sudo -E add-apt-repository ppa:jonathonf/vim'
<Stefan____> That worked, thanks.
<morphis__> anyone can help to understand why I can see my git branch via browser at https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/~morphis/snappy-hwe-snaps/+git/bluez
<morphis__> but don't get it via:
<morphis__> lp = Launchpad.login_anonymously('test', 'production')
<morphis__> test = lp.branches.getByUrl(url="lp:~morphis/snappy-hwe-snaps/+git/bluez/branches")
<morphis__> that just returns None for me
<morphis__> ah sorry, substract the /branches from the url
<morphis__> that was just a try but without it doesn't work as well
<morphis__> cjwatson: any idea?
<cjwatson> morphis__: lp.branches is only for Bazaar
<morphis__> ah
<morphis__> I thought it must be something fundamental
<cjwatson> morphis__: you need version='devel' on the login call, and then use lp.git_repositories.getByPath(path='~morphis/snappy-hwe-snaps/+git/bluez')
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#git_repositories-getByPath
<morphis__> cjwatson: thanks
<zyga> any known issues? I cannot seem to make changes to a bug I was just editing
<zyga> I don't get an OOPS
<zyga> the bug in question is https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1625291
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1625291 in Snappy "ConnectedSlotSnippet not invoked when connecting two snaps" [Undecided,New]
<zyga> I just get "please try again" pop-ups
<dobey> zyga: in the ajax?
<dobey> zyga: the ajax widget bits tend to wrap errors in a "show a red box" sort of thing, so OOPS probably happened, but you just can't see it
<zyga> dobey: yes, in the ajax thing
<zyga> dobey: it worked now
<Saviq> hey guys, https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1625704/+distrotask seems to be OOPSing 100% here
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1625704 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Keyboard indicator is confusing when no external keyboards attached" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dobey> Saviq: i think there is some network hiccuping going on
<dobey> Saviq: been hitting some issues trying to rebuild a silo, too
<cjwatson> Saviq: what's the oops id?
<cjwatson> Saviq: oh dear, I see.  regression from http://blog.launchpad.net/beta/beta-test-new-package-picker
<Saviq> cjwatson, 9b2fc0b839537214b33e591586308413
<cjwatson> Saviq: please file a bug, I'm about to have dinner but will look at it later
<cjwatson> zyga: yours is probably the usual mysterious-postgresql-maintenance-thing that occasionally blocks bug table triggers for about ten minutes, but it always goes away in a short time
<cjwatson> dobey: whatever you're seeing is unrelated to whatever zyga and Saviq are seeing
<cjwatson> (which are themselves unrelated to each other)
<cjwatson> curious though, that looks basically the same as the situation that TestBugAlsoAffectsDistribution.test_bug_alsoaffects_spn_exists_dsp_picker_feature_flag exercises; must have missed some detail
<Saviq> cjwatson, bug #1625771
<ubot5`> bug 1625771 in Launchpad itself "OOPS when trying to pick a distrotask" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1625771
<cjwatson> ta
<dobey> ok
<cjwatson> Saviq: should be possible to work around it using the API, FWI
<cjwatson> W
<Saviq> cjwatson, not pressing, no worries
<cjwatson> (or temporarily leave ~launchpad-beta-testers)
<zyga> cjwatson: I see, thanks
<cjwatson> wow, this is super-confusing.  oh bug, why you not show up in test suite
<cjwatson> oh, hm, maybe it matters that that bug already has a package task
<cjwatson> Right, yes.  DistroBugTaskCreationStep.render does a weird thing.
<cjwatson> That is a perplexing thing.
<cjwatson> What's the point of defaulting to a source package name you can't add because it's already there?
<cjwatson> I guess if you want to pick a different distribution it makes some sense.
<meena> i'm trying to upload a new package https://launchpad.net/~tarsnap/+archive/ubuntu/lts/+packages â¦ andâ¦ it's not really happening
<wgrant> meena: Can you provide more details about what you're doing and what unexpectedly doesn't happen?
<meena> wgrant: i'm doing a dput, i'm expecting it to return with a success. instead it's just hanging there
<meena> for ~10 minutes now
<wgrant> meena: dput over which protocol? FTP or SFTP?
<meena> wgrant: sftp
<wgrant> meena: What happens if you "ssh USERNAME@ppa.launchpad.net?"
<meena> wgrant: it all just came rushing back to me
<meena> i've seen this before.
<meena> debug1: Offering ECDSA public key: /home/igalic/.ssh/id_ecdsa
<cjwatson> Ah, so basically the same kind of thing as https://bugs.launchpad.net/turnip/+bug/1621238
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1621238 in turnip "git.launchpad.net hangs forever when presented with an ed25519 key" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> Twisted has been getting its act together here quite rapidly of late, so hopefully we can figure out a path to upgrading soon (modulo the buildout nonsense)
<meena> *nod
<meena> i'm confused that it ignores my .ssh/config settings..
<wgrant> meena: ppa.launchpad.net rather than bazaar.launchpad.net or git.launchpad.net, maybe?
<cjwatson> Or ordering, which lots of people get wrong (even me!)
<meena> wgrant: this is ppa, yes
<wgrant> meena: I mean in your sshconfig.
<wgrant> Maybe it's only set for one host but not the other?
<meena> wgrant: i don't have any other host in my .ssh/config
<meena> only ppa
<wgrant> Hmm
<meena> anyway, i have to sleep nowâ¦ i hope y'all get this fixed till tmorrow ;)
<cjwatson> Any fix on our side won't be within a day (or probably even a month).
<cjwatson> It should be possible to bodge the client side eventually though ...
#launchpad 2016-09-21
<meena> i have successfully uploaded software.
<meena> AND IT HAS BUILT (for precise)
<rbasak> Can Launchpad do an automated Git -> Git import? I'd like to set up a build recipe against a packaging branch on Alioth. https://help.launchpad.net/VcsImports seems to pre-date git support.
<dobey> i think that feature is not ready yet
<dobey> but it will at some point
<dobey> iirc right now, you need to do a manual git import by cloning, adding lp remote, and pushing
<cjwatson> rbasak: Almost next on the agenda.
<cjwatson> (Almost.)
<cjwatson> I did most of the design last week: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JcDGSzFU1r-Dh9hagxXX3fcmwkocdpaUE5TSln6uX7c for those with access
<rbasak> cjwatson: thanks! I'd like it for MySQL, happy to test when you have something. It's for an enhancement to speed us up, not blocking anything.
<dobey> https://askubuntu.com/questions/827996/error-in-building-snap-package-on-launchpad
<cjwatson> I keep asking the snappy-dev team to fix that
<dobey> seems like that particular one also has a problem depending on a couple elementary PPAs
<cjwatson> Oh, no
<cjwatson> The reporter just picked out a completely irrelevant line to comment on
<cjwatson> Maybe
<dobey> i see the NO_PUBKEY in the log for 2 other PPAs too
<cjwatson> yeah, it's in fact a bit fiddly
<cjwatson> snapcraft uses the builder's apt config, and in this case the build is running against a PPA with dependencies
<cjwatson> normally we don't bother to set up GPG configuration for PPAs because it's all in our DC anyway
<cjwatson> but snapcraft can't really know that, and it's not adding the PPAs itself
<cjwatson> so it doesn't really make sense for it to do add-apt-repository
<dobey> ah
<cjwatson> we may have to bite the bullet and ship public keys out to the builder, at least for snap builds
<cjwatson> I'll follow up to the AU question asking them to file a bug
<dobey> ok, was going to ask if i should do that :)
<cjwatson> dobey: Thanks for the heads-up; answered.
<dobey> np. wasn't expecting you to be around though. :)
<cjwatson> Got sucked into hacking on isitdeployable
#launchpad 2016-09-22
<maxb> Is the PPA publisher down? I'm seeing a build finished 1 hour ago not yet published
<wgrant> Not down, just resting.
<wgrant> And by resting I mean apparently publishing an awful lot of Qt binaries...
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> can https://launchpad.net/sprints/eryhers and https://launchpad.net/sprints/druirtg be removed?
<dholbach> they're both spam
<wgrant> dholbach: Not at the moment, but it's on my list to fix.
<dholbach> thanks wgrant
<wgrant> They're somewhere south of 0.001% of the spam problem atm.
<Saviq> hey all, any idea what's going on with the publisher? https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-078/+packages has the unity8 packages pending for 2h now...
<wgrant> Saviq: Other ci-train PPAs have been publishing a lot of Qt and such which apparently bogged the publisher down for a while, but it's catching up.
<Saviq> wgrant, ack, thanks
<wgrant> A solution has been mostly devised to prevent a single big PPA from blocking everything else, but time is hard to come by atm.
<cpaelzer> hi, is there an obvious reason I'm overlooking why https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+subscribedbugs lists 308 hits
<cpaelzer> but using LP api like this example http://paste.ubuntu.com/23215437/ doesn't sum up to 308 in a similar way ?
<cpaelzer> there are a few combos which add up to 308, but they all have Fix releases, which the web view has not
<wgrant> cpaelzer: That script is only searching for tasks in Ubuntu.
<cpaelzer> uh, you mean we might really have some outside
<cpaelzer> I didn't consider that yet
<cpaelzer> let me check
<wgrant> And the web UI by default excludes closed statuses (Invalid, Won't Fix, Expired, Opinion, Fix Released)
<cpaelzer> thanks wgrant I knew it might be something obvious
<wgrant> cpaelzer: Many of the bugs the team is subscribed to will have tasks on other projects or distributions in addition to the Ubuntu task.
<cpaelzer> if a bug would have a Ubuntu tasks for Dev and Xenial and a linked Debian bug, it would still appear once in the web UI right?
<wgrant> cpaelzer: No, bug listings, like the searchTasks API method, list tasks, not bugs.
<cpaelzer> so they would show up twice, I'll find an exmaple
<wgrant> You'll see dupes if you order that listing by Number.
<cpaelzer> thanks wgrant
<wgrant> eg. bug #1624672
<ubot5`> bug 1624672 in dbconfig-common (Ubuntu) "Fix missing backticks in MySQL "DROP DATABASE" statement" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1624672
<cpaelzer> great, all fits together now
<Saviq> wgrant, any way I can see where the publisher's at? it's been 4h now I've been waiting for to publish https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-078/+packages :/
<wgrant> Saviq: Hm, what's still pending publication?
<wgrant> Oh, it published like a minute after you asked, heh.
<wgrant> I think it should catch up in the next hourish.
<Saviq> d'uh
<acheronuk> will this chroot problem failure get automatically retried? or do I have to get someone to prod it? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plasma-desktop/4:5.7.5-0ubuntu1/+build/10937306
<sarnold> eww
<sarnold> acheronuk: probably best to actively look for someone to repoke it
<sarnold> I've heard the ppc64el builders are flaky :(
<acheronuk> sarnold: I can belive that. had another couple segfault during a build. then go fine on a retry
<sarnold> acheronuk: *nod*
#launchpad 2016-09-23
<oparoz__> It seems snaps requiring OpenSSL can't be build on Launchpad. Is there a special trick to apply to have access to it?
<dobey> can't it pull in libssl-dev from the archive?
<oparoz__> Yeah, stupid me I included the openssl package because I couldn't find openssl-dev ...
<clivejo> Hi, can I enable package autotests in my PPA?
<wgrant> clivejo: What specifically do you mean?
<tsimonq2> wgrant: he's probably talking about the fact that the Ubuntu archive goes through autopkgtests
<tsimonq2> (he probably doesn't know that it's a whole separate setup)
<wgrant> Right, but another possible meaning was tests during the package build, which should be automatically run unless the package is weird.
#launchpad 2016-09-24
<pjotter> Hi people! I'm trying to visit a page on launchpad.net but I get a timeout message. Is there a problem with launchpad atm?
<wgrant> Yep, we're investigating a problem with one of our firewalls.
<pjotter> O wait... I see now. Serverupgrades :)
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad temporarily unavailable; we're working on it | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<wgrant> Not upgrades, sadly.
<pjotter> Ok, I'll just try again later. Thanks!
<wgrant> Just a boring old outage of some sort.
<pjotter> Hope it will be fixed soon
<Moody> launchpad down?
<wgrant> Working on a firewall issue, see /topic
<Moody> up again
<wgrant> Yep, things should be recovering now.
<pjotter> It works! :D Hurray!
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<arp11600> hello
<arp11600> everyone
<oparoz> It seems the snap builder is having connectivity issues again
<oparoz> fatal: unable to access 'https://github.com/rogpeppe/godeps/': Could not resolve host: github.com
<oparoz> package github.com/rogpeppe/godeps: exit status 128
#launchpad 2016-09-25
<sagik> hi there
<sagik> I'd like to sign up to Launchpad
<sagik> nvm
#launchpad 2017-09-18
<smoser> hey.
<smoser> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/337353000/buildlog.txt.gz
<smoser> probably known ?
<smoser> recipe build at https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/+recipe/sm-xenial-daily produced that,
<smoser> fails early with
<smoser>    Could not connect to ftpmaster.internal:80 (91.189.89.99). - connect (111: Connection refused)
<wgrant__> smoser: Sorry about that, we'd intended to pause builds during this quick maintenance, but that didn't quite work apparently.
<wgrant> It'll be back in a few minutes, and all builds are probably paused now.
<wgrant> s/probably/properly/
<KeithW> Hi folks -- is Launchpad experiencing an unannounced outage? We're not seeing our uploads appear in PPAs (even after several hours).
<wgrant> KeithW: We ran into some trouble with some maintenance this morning which is delaying processing of PPA uploads. Hopefully will be back within 15 minutes, and the backlog will be processed quickly.
<KeithW> Thanks!
<tsimonq2> Seems to be working again
<tsimonq2> Thanks wgrant et al!
<smoser> cjwatson, i saw you talking last week about 'make -f debian/rules clean'
<smoser> generating files / being used for making templates
<smoser> in cloud-init we have upstream branch with no packaging in debian/ and ubuntu/<release> branch with packaging that differs by release.
<smoser> when i cherry pick a upstream patch in ubuntu/<release> and put it in debian/patches/series then my recipe for building trunk fails (as the cherry picked patch wont apply)
<smoser>  https://code.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/+recipe/cloud-init-daily-xenial
<cjwatson> I don't want to discuss what should be done; I was merely observing what in practice sometimes is done.
<smoser> so i was hoping that i could just do something simple and some way make my trunk recipe take a different path (commenting out cpick-* from debian/patches/series)
<smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/+recipe/sm-xenial-daily
<smoser> (you're welcome to say "I'm sorry i dont have time")
<cjwatson> I'm not sure how that's related to my clean observation.
<smoser> well, i thought you were saying that 'debian/rules clean' woudl alwasy be called before building
<cjwatson> Nope.
<smoser> oh. hm. ok then.
<smoser> how do people do that sort of thing ?
<cjwatson> I think you just have to have different packaging branches depending on what you're applying them to, at least sometimes.
<cjwatson> That's certainly what I'd do.
<smoser> yeah. i was just trying to avoid the maintenance of N more branches where all they did was remove 'cpick-*' lines from debian/patches/series
<kwmonroe> does anyone have lp builders building snaps from svn?  my builds are having trouble doing the svn checkout from lp builders:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/25565855/
<nacc> kwmonroe: ew.
<kwmonroe> heh
<kwmonroe> queue the "boo svn"
<nacc> kwmonroe: although that reads more like possibly a proxy issue?
<kwmonroe> true dat nacc -- fwiw, the actual snap branch is a lp bzr -- it's just that the snap does an svn checkout for one of its parts.
<nacc> kwmonroe: use https://github.com/apache/pig ?
<nacc> kwmonroe: (which appears to be a mirror apache's git pig repo)
<nacc> kwmonroe: so you could also use git://git.apache.org/pig.git
<kwmonroe> yup nacc - using a git mirror ought to work.. just wondering if anyone was able to use svn on the builders (like maybe with a svn option to add --proxy=foo)
<nacc> kwmonroe: good q, no idea myself, sorry
<kwmonroe> np nacc - thx for the git mirror suggestion!  that'll get me where i need to go.
<nacc> kwmonroe: np, that's been my general snap workarounnd :)
<kwmonroe> heh
<cjwatson> kwmonroe: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-buildd/+bug/1668358
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1668358 in launchpad-buildd "Snap Builds using SVN Unable to Access Internet" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<cjwatson> need to work out some plausible proxy arrangement for that, but yeah, some kind of mirror would likely help
#launchpad 2017-09-19
<clivejo> are there issues with PPA's tonight?
<clivejo> E: Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ci/unstable/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kactivities-kf5/libkf5activities5_5.38.0+p17.04+git20170918.0902-0_amd64.deb  Unable to connect to ppa.launchpad.net:http:
<wgrant> clivejo: Do you have a timestamp for that?
<clivejo> build started at 2350 UTC
<clivejo> wgrant: buildlog - https://launchpadlibrarian.net/337481506/buildlog_ubuntu-zesty-amd64.peruse_1.2+p17.04+git20170918.2350-0_BUILDING.txt.gz
<wgrant> Interesting.
<wgrant> clivejo: Looks like an issue with apache's mpm_event. Investigating -- thanks for the report.
<clivejo> wgrant: getting worse
<wgrant> clivejo: It's actually getting better. But it did get worse for a few minutes...
<wgrant> Nearly there.
<clivejo> wall of red failures on KCI
<wgrant> But I've suspended all builds.
<clivejo> wgrant: don't know if it's coincidence, but only seems to have affected xenial series
<wgrant> clivejo: Just a coincidence.
<wgrant> clivejo: Right, we've defeated systemd and it should be fully responsive again. Retries should work, and let me know if you see any further issues.
<clivejo> thanking you kindly
<ail30> Hi, I just created a ppa and uploaded packages to it. Now if I run add-apt-repository I get "gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found." and "Failed to add key." Any hints on what's wrong?
<cjwatson> ail30: it takes a little while for keys to be generated
<ail30> it works if I run apt-key adv --recv-key
<ail30> does that mean the key has already been generated?
<cjwatson> should do
<ail30> gpg: keybox '/tmp/tmp6phwstbk/pubring.gpg' created
<ail30> gpg: /tmp/tmp6phwstbk/trustdb.gpg: trustdb created
<ail30> gpg: key 57A94721: public key "Launchpad PPA for Adrian I. Lam" imported
<ail30> gpg: Total number processed: 1
<ail30> gpg:               imported: 1
<ail30> gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
<ail30> Failed to add key.
<ail30> ^ That's what add-apt-repository gives me
<cjwatson> What's the full PPA name?
<ail30> ppa:adrianiainlam/indicator-keyboard-led
<cjwatson> Will have a look in a bit, about to have a meeting
<ail30> thanks
<ail30> cjwatson, I tried it on another computer and it worked. Perhaps it's just something wrong with my gpg.
<ail30> cjwatson, apparently it was because I linked /usr/bin/gpg to /usr/bin/gpg2 instead of actually having a gpg1. It's been solved now.
<cjwatson> Aha
<cjwatson> Yes, was just trying it locally (and it was fine)
<cjwatson> That may be something that needs to be fixed in add-apt-repository though
<cjwatson> Probably /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/softwareproperties/AptAuth.py
<dupondje_> "Create a new dput configuration section using incoming = ~<lp_name>/<ppa_name>/ubuntu/<a ubuntu suite> and the suite you specify will override the suite named in the upload changelog when you upload it using the new configuration"
<dupondje_> thats still the case? Cause it doesn't seem to work (~dupondje/dupondje/ubuntu/xenial)
<cjwatson> dupondje_: You didn't follow the directions accurately.
<cjwatson> I think.  Let me check.
<cjwatson> dupondje_: Right.  Your PPA's *display name* is "dupondje", but its *name* is "ppa".
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/~dupondje/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<cjwatson> dupondje_: Perhaps you meant to change its name; but right now, the form is ~dupondje/ppa/ubuntu/xenial
<cjwatson> dupondje_: That said, that form is deprecated; where do you see it?  The preferred form now is ~dupondje/ubuntu/ppa with Distribution: xenial in the .changes file, or ~dupondje/ubuntu/ppa/xenial if you need to override the suite.
<cjwatson> Ah, https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading#Using_packages_from_other_distributions.  Will fix.
<dupondje_> cjwatson: aha ok :) Was unclear a bit. Thx
<zarzar> how do i find an official release version og gcc 4.8.1 arm-linux-gnueabihf, the binaries on launchpad.net and linaro archive are all prerelease versions
<clivejo> is there something wrong with LP builders?
<clivejo> seems to be a lot of "Cleaning" going on
<kwmonroe> i'm having a heck of a time getting lp builders to install stuff from maven.. i can wget stuff from maven during the snap install phase no problem (http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bigdata-dev/bigdata-data/snap-pig/view/head:/snap/snapcraft.yaml#L198), but every time my snap tries to do it via ant, i get a 403:
<kwmonroe> [ivy:resolve] HTTP response status: 403 url=http://repo.apache.maven.org/maven2/xmlenc/xmlenc/0.52/xmlenc-0.52.pom
<kwmonroe> [ivy:resolve] CLIENT ERROR: Forbidden url=http://repo.apache.maven.org/maven2/xmlenc/xmlenc/0.52/xmlenc-0.52.pom
<kwmonroe> [ivy:resolve] 	maven2: resource not reachable for xmlenc#xmlenc;0.52: res=http://repo.apache.maven.org/maven2/xmlenc/xmlenc/0.52/xmlenc-0.52.pom
<kwmonroe> if it was a proxy issue, i'd expect a 407 or some other auth denied message... the 403 makes me think the lp builders have been blacklisted.  anyone else seen this?
<kwmonroe> fwiw, i know the ant_opt are legit because i see them exported in the build log (https://launchpadlibrarian.net/337575355/buildlog_snap_ubuntu_xenial_ppc64el_pig_BUILDING.txt.gz), and i have an authenticated proxy on my home machine that works just fine.  i'm stumped trying to figure out why it doesn't work on lp.
#launchpad 2017-09-20
<zarzar> how do i find an official release version og gcc 4.8.1 arm-linux-gnueabihf, the binaries on launchpad.net and linaro archive are all prerelease versions
<cjwatson> You'll have to ask toolchain folks about that; we just do the hosting.
<cjwatson> I'd start at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.8 though
<cjwatson> 4.8.1 is pretty old even in the 4.8 series, so you may have to dig through the full publishing history there
<zarzar> i have found some 4.8.1 binaries but they all report (prerelease) as version
<cjwatson> kwmonroe: I'm not seeing any hits for repo.apache.maven.org in our proxy logs, so my guess would be that your build isn't actually hitting the proxy for that.  To reproduce locally, you might try using ufw to turn off most outbound HTTP in the container where you do the build
<cjwatson> (but obviously not where the proxy is running)
<cjwatson> zarzar: may not be important; I believe Ubuntu's GCC builds are routinely built from snapshots
<zarzar> oh
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.8/+publishinghistory?batch=75&memo=150&start=150 has links to at least some 4.8.1 builds which definitely weren't prereleases, judging from the version numbers
<cjwatson> looking at the changelog, all the packages in Ubuntu whose version are 4.8.1-1 or newer postdate the upstream 4.8.1 release
<zarzar> cjwatson:  arm-linux-gnueabihf
<cjwatson> so?
<cjwatson> oh, are you asking about cross-compilers?
<zarzar> yes
<cjwatson> that was not clear
<cjwatson> zarzar: from amd64?
<zarzar> cjwatson: i don't think they are from amd64
<cjwatson> zarzar: what architecture do you want to run these binaries on?
<zarzar> arm-linux-gnueabihf is for armhf
<cjwatson> yes, I know, but that's the architecture that the compiler should build for
<cjwatson> you're asking about cross-compilers
<zarzar> armhf
<cjwatson> so what is the other architecture - the one you want to run the compiler on?
<zarzar> is the arch
<cjwatson> if you're running the compiler on armhf, and asking it to produce armhf code, then that's not a cross-compiler
<zarzar> oh i see, sorry
<cjwatson> but you said you were asking about cross-compilers
<zarzar> x86, ubuntu vm
<cjwatson> 32-bit or 64-bit?
<zarzar> 64
<cjwatson> then the answer to "from amd64?" is "yes" :-)
<cjwatson> zarzar: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.8-armhf-cross/0.10/+build/5086007 looks promising
<cjwatson> that's the most recent suitable 4.8.1-based build that was performed in Ubuntu
<zarzar> why does that say PROPOSED?
<cjwatson> zarzar: all Ubuntu builds first happen in proposed and then are promoted to release if they work
<cjwatson> that's an artifact of the build process.  ignore it.
<cjwatson> those binaries were released with Ubuntu 13.10
<cjwatson> obviously nobody is supporting those any more
<zarzar> is that taken from a snapshot or an official release from the working group?
<cjwatson> I have no idea; grab the source and check the changelog
<cjwatson> all I know is that it's newer than the official 4.8.1 release
<cjwatson> all Ubuntu GCC packages are patched in some way; if it literally has to be exactly 4.8.1, then you'll have to download that from upstream and compile it yourself
<zarzar> cjwatson: i don't know what i am looking at on that page
<zarzar> its a never ending maze of links
<zarzar> all i can find is the deb file, i just want the binaries
<zarzar> why do the linaro toolchain binaries on launchpad all have (prerelease) as version? https://launchpad.net/linaro-toolchain-binaries/+milestone/2013.04
<cjwatson> zarzar: the .debs contain the binaries and can be installed with dpkg or extracted with dpkg-deb
<cjwatson> zarzar: nobody here is going to have any idea whatsoever about Linaro binaries that happen to be hosted on Launchpad
<cjwatson> zarzar: seriously, you need to ask the people who built them
<zarzar> i extracted the deb but i do not see any binaries\
<cjwatson> I imagine you extracted the wrong .deb
<zarzar> no one knows, no one responds, the mioracle of open source
<cjwatson> oh for goodness' sake
<cjwatson> I've spent quite a while trying to help you, please don't be snarky
<cjwatson> gcc-4.8-arm-linux-gnueabihf_4.8.1-10ubuntu7cross0.10_amd64.deb looks like the one you need; it ...
<cjwatson> sigh
#launchpad 2017-09-21
<juergh> how can I download a source package from a private PPA? I can authenticate and get the published sources using archive.getPublishedSources but can't figure out how to actually download the bits.
<nacc> juergh: i believe the URLs are a bit hidde, but https://launchpad.net/~USER/+archive/ubuntu/PPA_NAME/+files/FILENAME
<nacc> juergh: you get the filenames from the API call you did
<juergh> nacc, thanks but how do I download the files? I can construct the URL which works in a browser but if I do a simple urllib2.urlopen on that URL I get a 404 error. Which makes me think I need to either a) do some auth with urllib or b) us a launchpadlib helper/method.
<nacc> juergh: i'm trying to get this fixed urgently, as our snap is busted, but git-ubuntu has an importppa function that will take a PPA and import it to git
<nacc> juergh: the implementation is https://git.launchpad.net/usd-importer/tree/gitubuntu/importppa.py
<kwmonroe> yo cjwatson, i setup my env like you suggested yesterday (ufw deny outgoing bits except those through my auth proxy).  i still can't figure out why lp builders return 403 while my local setup works.  could you do me a favor and grep for proxy hits to maven.org from the last hour?  here's an example succesful hit for my local build while the lp builders 403:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/25587006/
<cjwatson> kwmonroe: It looks like you aren't always sending the username to the proxy
<cjwatson> snap-proxy/squid/access.log:10.222.146.106 - - [21/Sep/2017:15:36:52 +0000] "HEAD http://repo.apache.maven.org/maven2/xmlenc/xmlenc/0.52/xmlenc-0.52.jar HTTP/1.1" 403 457 "-" "Apache Ivy/2.2.0" TCP_DENIED:HIER_NONE
<cjwatson> compare and contrast a working hit from the same build:
<cjwatson> snap-proxy/squid/access.log:10.222.146.106 - SNAPBUILD-83382-1506007468 [21/Sep/2017:15:36:40 +0000] "GET http://repo.apache.maven.org/maven2/xmlenc/xmlenc/0.52/xmlenc-0.52.pom HTTP/1.1" 200 1422 "-" "Wget/1.17.1 (linux-gnu)" TCP_MISS:HIER_DIRECT
<kwmonroe> yeah cjwatson - that 2nd one works because that's me doing a wget to make sure i'm not crazy:  https://github.com/juju-solutions/snap-pig/blob/master/snap/snapcraft.yaml#L209
<kwmonroe> so i'm guessing there's something about ant that isn't passing along the proxy config correctly.  still, i'm troubled by not being able to repro in my local squid env.  it's rather painful to commit / cross fingers / request lp builds.
<cjwatson> (you can see SNAPBUILD-83382-1506007468 passed as http.proxyUser in your build)
<cjwatson> so I guess something in the insinnards of maven loses that sometimes)
<cjwatson>  like I say, Java 's HTTP stack by default only does anything with authed proxies if you specifically set up a java.net.Authenticator
<cjwatson> sorry, extreme lag
<cjwatson> I banged my head against this in ant for quite a while and I'm afraid I gave up
<cjwatson> I suspect https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad-buildd/local-snap-proxy/+merge/322545 is the only sane answer
<kwmonroe> heh, roger that cjwatson -- i appreciate the help and digging through those logs!
<iliv> hey guys
<alai> hi, could someone please help on launchpadlib?
<alai> i'm getting the uncorrect date
<alai> for bug 1705594, task.date_fix_committed returns 2017-09-19 which is not correct
<ubot5> bug 1705594 in MAAS "[2.2] rackd errors after fresh install" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705594
<alai> it is incomplete and the fix_commited date should be None
<cjwatson> alai: those attributes are pretty weird; can you just use a different approach, like the bug activity collection?
<cjwatson> alai: please file a bug against Launchpad itself about the odd data in this case, though
<cjwatson> (it's not launchpadlib's fault - that's just a thin layer talking to the webservice)
<alai> cjwatson, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1718795
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1718795 in Launchpad itself "launchpadlib returns incorrect dates" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> thanks
#launchpad 2017-09-23
<acheronuk> https://launchpad.net/builders/
<acheronuk> many of those running builds appear to have actually done nothing for an hr or so
<acheronuk> and I had 2 builds with a 'failed to upload'
<acheronuk> seems something has dropped off it's perch?
<acheronuk> hmmm. typically, as soon as I say that there seems to be some movement, though still some x86 stuff in odd states. e.g. jobs shown as running, but build logs there
<wgrant> acheronuk: Looking.
<wgrant> There's an issue with the librarian.
<acheronuk> that would make sense
<wgrant> acheronuk: Should be good now.
<acheronuk> wgrant: thank you :)
<miika> I'm having trouble uploading to launchpad. The PGP keys seem to be set up properly, the package is signed with the correct key, yet no email about the successful upload
<miika> RSA key ID 4EC34898
<cjwatson> miika: The copy of that key on keyserver.ubuntu.com expired on 2017-04-26.
<cjwatson> miika: (I have a branch in progress to arrange that Launchpad notifies you in this case rather than failing silently)
<teward_school> hey Launchpad gurus, anyone got any answer for this user?  https://askubuntu.com/questions/958702/launchpad-eddsa-key
<miika> cjwatson: that explains, even though gpg shows the expiration date as 2018-08-20 for me, gotta upload new key anyways
<m_hampl> What has to be done to get https://launchpad.net/~fanfictioncoll89 banned? There are already >140 spam messages in launchapd answers for ubuntu from that user. Please see also https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/658276
<teward> cjwatson: thanks for replying to that Ask Ubuntu question
<cjwatson> teward: NP
<cjwatson> m_hampl: processing now
<cjwatson> miika: I *suspect* the keyserver will accept it if you just upload a new self-signature with a newer expiration date, but you can try
<miika> cjwatson: I already uploaded a new key and that is working fine
<cjwatson> OK, good
<teward> cjwatson: do you know offhand what algorithms Launchpad *does* accept for PGP keys?
<teward> i'd assume standard RSA, ECDSA, but...
<cjwatson> RSA, DSA, ElGamal
<cjwatson> I don't believe anyone's so far complained about the lack of ECDSA
<cjwatson> (I'm just going from what's in lp.services.gpg.interfaces.GPGKeyAlgorithm
<cjwatson> )
<teward> well i'd be complaining about ECDSA because my newer keys are all ECDSA because reasons.
<teward> but my actual LP / Packaging key is still RSA4096
<teward> :P
<teward> cjwatson: thanks, hope you don't mind that I've added to your answer to expand it a little then, to indicate the supported key algos.
<cjwatson> And if you were you'd be the first to complain :)
<cjwatson> I imagine if somebody files a bug then we'd just do all the newer ones at once
<cjwatson> Sure
<teward> cjwatson: actually that brings up a question...
<teward> what gpg version does LP use as its backend
<cjwatson> Launchpad, not "LaunchPad", BTW
<teward> because only certain versions support Ed and such
<teward> cjwatson: autocorrect is a pain isn't it.
<teward> (using a bloody Mac right now >.<)
<cjwatson> The relevant systems run xenial and call gpg via gpgme; I'm not offhand certain whether that ends up on gpg or gpg2
<cjwatson> so either 1.4.20 or 2.1.11 right now
<cjwatson> Oh yeah, we deliberately stick to gpg1
<cjwatson> 1.4.20, then
<teward> that wouldn't support Ed, etc. then. IIRC
<cjwatson> Plausible
<teward> so you'd have to rejigger the infrastructure to use gpg2
<cjwatson> Yes, which is non-trivial
<teward> and that's a massive project.
<cjwatson> I wouldn't say massive
<cjwatson> Just not a simple switch
<teward> anything nontrivial becomes a massive project on its own
<teward> because when you THINK it's working
<teward> it explodes
<teward> and then you have to fix the evils.
<cjwatson> No point overstating matters either
<cjwatson> https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/force-gpg1/+merge/314632 has some brief commentary
<cjwatson> (noting that we did that before upgrading to xenial)
<teward> cjwatson: I do know I had to switch to `gpg2` to support the one key I took from my work laptop - an ECDSA based key - to work on my laptop - so I basically had to rewrite `gpg` -> `gpg2` with symlinks
<teward> cjwatson: ah, indeed.
<cjwatson> We don't have to do that kind of thing, but we need to persuade gpg2 to not leave a load of persistent processes around during tests.
<teward> heheh
<teward> indeed.
<cjwatson> Totally doable if there's actually a compelling reason.
<teward> cjwatson: IIRC RSA/RSA is still the default gpg algo in gpg2 because it's widely accepted, but I haven't tested that recently
<teward> yep gpg2 is still RSA/RSA for its defaults
<cjwatson> (SSH keys are an entirely different complicated kettle of fish.)
<teward> oh geez don't get me started XD
<teward> but for reference, `gpg2` in Xenial supports at least the following for keygen - http://paste.ubuntu.com/25600876/
<teward> ... in extreme expert mode...
<teward> (EC isn't even offered outside of expert mode)
<teward> cjwatson: so I don't think EdDSA would even be an option for xenial
<cjwatson> Key generation is of course not the important thing
<teward> true
<cjwatson> And we do have the option of backporting if necessary
<teward> true
<teward> meh in any case, it's all solved and answered :)
<teward> thank you
<mehrlich> I'm getting "Unable to identify 'Anonymous':<root@runner-4e4528ca-project-2887717-concurrent-0> in launchpad" in my upload which is built by CI and I found I should ask here about what it means
#launchpad 2018-09-17
<cjwatson> coreycb: I don't think anything has changed there in years
<juliank> cjwatson: archive seems to be rolling backwards
<juliank> curl http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/cosmic/InRelease | grep Date
<juliank> Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018  8:28:14 UTC
<juliank> that's from 10 days ago
<juliank> oh seems to be going on for some time now
<juliank> my local file was from Sep 15
<juliank> oh it's a local mirror
<juliank> and it hijacks all the archive.u.c urls
<juliank> xnox: ^
<alkisg> Wow, launchpad builds now can show the changelog in update-manager, thanks for that! :)
<coreycb> cjwatson: maybe it's a database issue. i'd noticed it for a while so I recently made a copy from before/after and noticed the total uploads number remained the same, the 2 most recent uploads were added, and 2 others were deleted.
<cjwatson> coreycb: I don't really know this page particularly well.  Maybe a bug report with whatever specific examples you have would help?
<coreycb> cjwatson: sure, let me submit one
<cjwatson> It goes through a cache table so it's possible there's something odd with that
<coreycb> cjwatson: here you go: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1792879
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1792879 in Launchpad itself "+uploaded-packages is not correctly tracking uploads" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> thanks
<cjwatson> coreycb: Hm, isn't that just that we only show the most recent version for any given package/series pair?
<cjwatson> It's meant more as a "these are the packages you work on" view, not as an audit log, AIUI
<coreycb> cjwatson: maybe!
<coreycb> cjwatson: i obviously misunderstood that. fee free to reject :)
<cjwatson> OK :)
<coreycb> cjwatson: now i can focus on important things. thanks for your time.
<cjwatson> np
<cjwatson> thanks for chasing it up
<xnox> juliank, yes, we highjack dns at sprints, because bandwidth.
<xnox> juliank, is that your surpise?
<cjwatson> according to telegram the mirror was a bit broken
<cjwatson> but IS is/was sorting it
#launchpad 2018-09-18
<jdahlin> Hi, I'm getting an error (OOPS-ed6ba4cf80d531f95f614807f5e4641a) while trying to login to launchpad.net (after authentication via Ubuntu One), who can help me login?
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-ed6ba4cf80d531f95f614807f5e4641a
<ijohnson> Hi, I'm trying to modify a snap package on launchpad and every time I hit "Update snap package" I hit the "Uh oh" page. I tried this numerous times yesterday and it's still happening. Any ideas?
<cjwatson> ijohnson: Do you have an OOPS ID?
<ijohnson> Is there one included in the HTTP headers or somewhere? I don't see anything on the webpage itself
<ijohnson> The response code is 502 bad gateway, but I don't see any OOPS ID's
<cjwatson> Hm, interesting
<ijohnson> The uh oh page says: `Technically, the load balancer took too long to connect to an application server.`
<cjwatson> ijohnson: Could you give me the URL to the snap you're trying to modify so that I have something to search logs for?
<ijohnson> Sure, it's for the docker snap, https://launchpad.net/~docker/+snap/docker/+edit
<cjwatson> OK, will take a while to search
<ijohnson> No problem, thanks for looking!
<cjwatson> Hmm, I'm not even seeing the relevant POST requests in our logs
<cjwatson> Though I guess I'd need haproxy logs
<cjwatson> wgrant: ^- any idea, when you get a minute?
<wgrant> Hmm
<wgrant> cjwatson: is there a corresponding OOPS?
<cjwatson> Haven't found one yet
<cjwatson> Hmm
<cjwatson> Do we have a DNS incident?
<cjwatson> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-5dba5b754f4ff39205cd91e19eb843cc is not the same thing but also looks weird
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-5dba5b754f4ff39205cd91e19eb843cc
<wgrant> Erm
<dezix> Hi !
<dezix> a Q? about Launchpad projects mailinglist
<dezix> How to search inside a project archive ?
<dezix> Because when I'm searching whith the search tool at the bottom of project list page, it shows answers from every Launchpad projects.
<cjwatson> I'm not sure if LP itself has a way.  You could use e.g. Google with site:lists.ubuntu.com inurl:name-of-mailing-list
<dezix> I've tried searching with :  +<project_name> keywords list  => it works better
<dezix> cjwatson, Thanks for advise
<cjwatson> np
#launchpad 2018-09-19
<alkisg> Hi, I go to https://code.launchpad.net/~alkisg/epoptes/+git/gsoc2018/+delete and press Delete to delete a branch, and I'm getting:
<alkisg> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad.                (Error ID:         OOPS-f88803aaefa0c88e45ff767c15ade9e8)
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-f88803aaefa0c88e45ff767c15ade9e8
<alkisg> I'll keep trying, but I thought I'd mention it here in case it persists...
<alkisg> Btw, I've asked again a few months ago but I'll ask again in case something changed:
<alkisg> Translations can only sync with bzr branches, not git branches, correct?
<cjwatson> alkisg: File it as a bug if it persists.  It seems to be taking a long time deleting old jobs; we may need to look into why that's happening
<cjwatson> alkisg: Translations are still bzr-only, yes
<alkisg> Thank you, will do
<alkisg> I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1793266
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1793266 in Launchpad itself "Unable to delete repository" [Undecided,New]
<ssbarnea> hi! can someone have a look at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/674042 ?
<wgrant> ssbarnea: You'll need to talk to the owners of the projects.
<ssbarnea> wgrant:  these projects were not used on LP for years, so I doubt there are any owners around.
<ssbarnea> https://launchpad.net/python-jenkins
<wgrant> ssbarnea: The admins of the owning team are definitely still active.
<wgrant> Well, James is, at least.
<wgrant> It requires a very exceptional circumstance for LP admins to hijack a project -- much easier for you to talk to the existing owner and get them to transfer ownership or grant the relevant access.
<ssbarnea> wgrant: sure. I didn't see the join option. I will cc him on the question.
<tintou> Are packages in `Dependency wait` state checked daily/weekly or is there a hook when a package changes in the PPA?
<ssbarnea> wgrant: thanks! I updated the question.
<wgrant> tintou: Every couple of hours, usually.
<tintou> wgrant: alright, thanks :)
<cjwatson> I think it's hourly in fact
<tintou> One tricky question, will it work if a build for one architecture of the missing package failed https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+recipe/signond-daily
<wgrant> tintou: All the builds are treated individually.
<cjwatson> Will what work?
<cjwatson> It won't automatically retry that specific build.
<wgrant> Oh yeah, the check is two-hourly, but the script is hourly, read the wrong line
<cjwatson> But, as wgrant says, the status of that build will have no effect on whether other dependency-wait builds are retried.
<tintou> So 3 to 4 hours since signond is available https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+recipe/signond-daily and this https://code.launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+recipe/libsignon-glib-daily is still waiting (I can wait more but if it's two-hourly there is probably something I'm missing there
<cjwatson> Ah, that's slightly amusing
<cjwatson> Only .deb builds get auto-retried
<cjwatson> That one's a recipe build, and doesn't
<tintou> Ah, alright, so I have to make another build request?
<cjwatson> Yeah
<cjwatson> Could you file a bug about this?  I don't know if it's something we would schedule to fix particularly soon, but it's weird that we have non-auto-retried depwait states
<tintou> Alright, will do :)
<cjwatson> (Recipe builds aren't normally retryable; but we could auto-schedule new ones I suppose)
<tintou> Opened against Launchpad itself https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1793296
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1793296 in Launchpad itself "Recipe build with missing dependencies aren't retried" [Undecided,New]
<ijohnson> cjwatson: did you ever find a fix for the snap package edit issue? I just tried again today and still same problem re: load balancer
<cjwatson> We haven't tracked it down yet, I'm afraid - we got sidetracked by another super-weird problem
<cjwatson> Have you tried making the change using the API?
<cjwatson> as a workaround
<ijohnson> No, I'm not familiar with using the API, are there docs on how to do that somewhere?
<cjwatson> https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib
<cjwatson> But if you tell me what changes you're trying to make I can give you an informal script
<ijohnson> I'm just trying to enable the snap to build automatically on new commits; just enable the tick for "Automatically build when branch changes"
<ijohnson> Thanks for the docs, I can take a look at that
<cjwatson> Should be basically
<cjwatson> lp-shell production devel
<cjwatson> [authenticate as needed]
<cjwatson> snap = lp.load('/~docker/+snap/docker')
<cjwatson> snap.auto_build = True
<cjwatson> snap.lp_save()
<cjwatson> (lp-shell is in the lptools package)
<ijohnson> Cool, I'll give it a try
<cjwatson> I wonder if it objects to you not having auto_build_{archive,pocket} set
<ijohnson> So now I get a 500 server error with an actual OOPS ID
<ijohnson> OOPS ID: OOPS-db2a7493cde4157b19ac6c18178254c8
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-db2a7493cde4157b19ac6c18178254c8
<cjwatson> IntegrityError: new row for relation "snap" violates check constraint "consistent_auto_build"
<cjwatson> OK, so that's essentially saying that you need to set both "Source archive for automatic builds" and "Pocket for automatic builds" to something
<cjwatson> Could you possibly screenshot the +edit UI page for me - the bit that includes those fields?
<ijohnson> Ah... Okay so now that I do that it lets me update it
<cjwatson> Ah, too late for the screenshot then :)
<ijohnson> The default radio button box was empty for "Source archive for automatic builds"
<ijohnson> So maybe a UI bug
<ijohnson> The "Pocket for automatic builds" did default to "Updates"
<cjwatson> OK, so that's an actionable bug report (please file it?) - you should have got a form validation error in this case, and/or there should be a sensible default
<cjwatson> Even the API shouldn't have OOPSed
<ijohnson> Sure, thanks for the help!
<cjwatson> But at least you're out of the woods
<ijohnson> Indeed. Filed as #1793311
<cjwatson> Cheers
<gQuigs> is there way for private PPA subscribers to see changelogs?  (without download the source packages)
<gQuigs> this https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/253119  kinda indicates to me the only option may be to use the API?  but would really prefer any web based way
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 253119 in Launchpad itself "PPA packages do not show a changelog in update-manager" [Low,Triaged]
<nacc> gQuigs: you want the full changelog?
<nacc> gQuigs: or just the changes in that upload to the ppa?
<gQuigs> full is likely better..
<gQuigs> nacc:  sometimes there will be more than one update to the PPA in the timeframe between them wanting to understand changes
<nacc> gQuigs: ah i see, yeah, the .changes file contents are available, and depending on the -v used to build, you can get the 'new' entries in the web interface from the ppa
#launchpad 2018-09-20
<xref> is launchpad down? didn't see anything on the twitter status feed
<wxl> xref: looking like it's working here
<xref> sweet looks like it's back, for me and downdetector, thanks wxl
<wxl> heh np
<LyzardKing> Hi! I have a problem with a build on launchpad. On cosmic I get an error, while the previous releases work. The error is - E:Not locked
<LyzardKing> - Subprocess output: debconf: DbDriver "passwords" warning: could not open /var/cache/debconf/passwords.dat: Permission denied
<LyzardKing> - debconf: delaying package configuration, since apt-utils is not installed
<LyzardKing> This is the full log: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/389273210/buildlog_ubuntu-cosmic-amd64.ubuntu-make_18.05+201809191700~ubuntu18.10.1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<cjwatson> That doesn't sound Launchpad-specific - have you tried reproducing it in a local sbuild instance?
<cjwatson> Builds don't have root, so your test must be doing something fiddly to run in an environment where it can test package installs, and probably something around that has changed subtly; but it would be a change in Ubuntu rather than a change in Launchpad
<alkisg> Hi, did I file this in the correct place? I still can't delete that repository of mine... https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1793266
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1793266 in Launchpad itself "Unable to delete repository" [Undecided,New]
<cjwatson> You did but that doesn't necessarily mean we can respond instantly :)
<cjwatson> Need to think about how to deal with it - it's not straightforward
<alkisg> cjwatson: thanks, there's no hurry at all, I was just wondering if I made a mistake (I remembered something about filing bugs against soyuz in the past...)
<cjwatson> no, it's in the right place.  soyuz bugs were merged into launchpad many years ago
<alkisg> Great
<cjwatson> (and that wouldn't have been soyuz anyway)
<Fudge> hey guys how we doing
<Fudge> cjwatson:  do you have time at the moment to answer a couple of questions, I am very noob and trying to pick up a dev project so trying to get head around live-build and bzr
<Fudge> if you're busy happy to get a time that may be more suitable
<cjwatson> I don't generally respond to open-ended things where I don't know how much time they're going to take
<Fudge> ahahah wise man
<cjwatson> But you can always ask questions and if I or anyone else has time and knows the answer then we can answer
<cjwatson> live-build is complicated; while I've built a number of things on it, I can't do general support for it
<cjwatson> I might happen to know specific things
<Fudge> i'll try to be specific then, how does a bzr branch for ubuntu seeds intergrate with live-build, is it a reference to the branch or do I need to pull the scripts in the lb directory strucutre somewhere?
<cjwatson> livecd-rootfs deals with that kind of thing
<cjwatson> it points germinate at a mirror of the relevant seeds, but anything that you can pass to germinate's -S option in the relevant network environment would work
<Fudge> ah right that helps, i'm using the BuildLiveCD script from livecd-rootfs
<cjwatson> good lord
<cjwatson> that was obsoleted years ago
<Fudge> unfortunately im the only one in our project willing to keep dev going and i dont know much, you may recall Luke has finished up with all opensource I believe
<cjwatson> the modern scheme is as described in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-June/033458.html
<Fudge> oh thanks heaps
<LyzardKing> cjwatson: thanks. I'll try running it manually on cosmic. Probably a live vm could be easy to test on..
<Fudge> what a cool release name lol
<cjwatson> LyzardKing: If your host system is Debian or Ubuntu, then I'd strongly recommend https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild - a VM is overkill
<cjwatson> Bit of learning but it's pretty easy once set up
<LyzardKing> I'm running ubuntu bionic... I can't figure out how to install things in the chroot..
<LyzardKing> I'd need to install the dependencies on the cosmic schroot
<LyzardKing> I followed the instructions on the wiki, but if I try to apt update or install I get: E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
<cjwatson> LyzardKing: sbuild installs build-deps automatically
<cjwatson> LyzardKing: if you're using schroot by hand, then you'd need to use -u root in order to become root inside the chroot
<cjwatson> you'll probably need to read some docs
<LyzardKing> Ok. I'm testing now with root.
<acheronuk> issue with git webhooks again?
<cjwatson> acheronuk: not that I can see?
<cjwatson> hmm!  maybe.
<cjwatson> will check shortly.
<acheronuk> cjwatson: looks like the 2 which seemed to hang completed in the end. just slow enough that I thought things might have broken again
<Spads> my recipe build doesn't seem to be pulling dependencies from the PPA I'm uploading to.  Either that or I'm missing something painfully obvious
<cjwatson> linky?
<Spads> https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-bootstack/+archive/ubuntu/thruk?field.series_filter=bionic and https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-bootstack/+archive/ubuntu/thruk/+recipebuild/1960626
<Spads> oh
<Spads> is this the ~ being negative version value hitting me?
<Spads> I bet it is
<cjwatson> it's not *that* negative
<cjwatson> $ dpkg --compare-versions 2.22-0~201808281956~ubuntu18.04.1 ge 2.20; echo $?
<cjwatson> 0
<Spads> hm
<cjwatson> oh, but that's a different build
<cjwatson> yes, it is
<Spads> aha
<Spads> yeah
<Spads> ok I'll just bump that then!
<cjwatson> $ dpkg --compare-versions 2.20-0~201802010857~ubuntu18.04.1 ge 2.20; echo $?
<cjwatson> 1
<Spads> nice
<Spads> $ dpkg --compare-versions 2.20-2~2383823 ge 2.20;echo $?
<Spads> 0
<Spads> so why does that fail now
<Spads> https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-bootstack/+archive/ubuntu/thruk/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=bionic and https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-bootstack/+archive/ubuntu/thruk/+recipebuild/1960646
 * Spads just hacks versions simpler
<cjwatson> Spads: It hasn't built yet
<Spads> well
<Spads> the one I had pinned my hopes on had published already
<Spads> https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-bootstack/+archive/ubuntu/thruk/+recipebuild/1960659 <-- I honestly expected that one to work
<cjwatson> http://ppa.launchpad.net/canonical-bootstack/thruk/ubuntu/pool/main/libt/libthruk/ has no .debs for bionic with a sufficient version
<Spads> hmmm
<cjwatson> it's published the source but not the binaries
<cjwatson> since it has not built the binaries: https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-bootstack/+archive/ubuntu/thruk/+build/15472109
<Spads> ahhhh
<Spads> details!
<Spads> thanks, that makes sense to me now
<cjwatson> np
<gQuigs> added bug per full changelogs - https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1793587   do let me know if I missed anything obvious
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1793587 in Launchpad itself "Web accessible changelogs for PPAs (including private)" [Undecided,New]
#launchpad 2018-09-21
<devimc> Hell everybody, I'm learning to use launchpad, by mistake I leave/delete (or I don't know what I did) my project and now the owner is 'Registry Administrators', what should I do to recuperate it?
#launchpad 2018-09-22
<alkisg> Hi, for translations, I have an automatic branch import from git://github.com/Epoptes/epoptes.git to https://code.launchpad.net/~epoptes/epoptes/epoptes
<alkisg> It currently fails to import, maybe because of some older git history rewrites using `git commit --amend; git push --force`.
<alkisg> Any solutions? I'm not sure if I can delete and recreate it due to the associated translations...
 * alkisg crosses fingers and recreates it...
<alkisg> Recreating the branch worked fine, thanks :)
