#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-05-30
<phillw> charlie-tca: are you still about?
<charlie-tca> yes
<phillw> could we have a quick PM, please?
<charlie-tca> yes
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-05-31
<phillw> pleia2: do you have time for a PM?
<pleia2> phillw: sure, but my internet is pretty lousy so I might drop off
<RainCT> phillw: Hey
<RainCT> phillw: (btw, you can email me at rainct@ubuntu.com)
<Fudge> anyone usine oneiric yet for testing
<UndiFineD> Fudge, what testing ?
<Fudge> orca in oneiric
<UndiFineD> hmm, no orca still keeps crashing on me, and my audio is broken too
<UndiFineD> I think I need to load classic for that to work properly
<leoquant> indeed i can confirm that
<Fudge> i can too, i jsut came back from failures
<Fudge> i do not believe classic is included with oneiric now?
<Fudge> or are you somehow able to isntall classic
<Fudge> install
<Fudge> :D
<MrChrisDruif> Fudge; What are you talking about?
<Pendulum> MrChrisDruif: for Oneiric the 2D default will be Unity 2D, not 'Classic Gnome Desktop'
<Fudge> yes, that is what i was talking about, tks
<Pendulum> Fudge: I suspect that they have not gotten around to making that change, however, in whatever is available for testing Oneiric. (although I've not tried installing it so I can't tell you for sure)
<MrChrisDruif> Won't Oneiric be based on Gnome 3 without the shell and with Unity instead?
<MrChrisDruif> A1 already out?
<Pendulum> A1 is due thursday
<MrChrisDruif> Alright
<UndiFineD> #ubuntu-testing : <jibel> guillemhs, the current package is not installable with at-spi2.
<UndiFineD> so that is a likely to be a w.i.p.
<jibel> the context of this quote is ldtp/python-ldtp
<Fudge> fun fun
<charlie-tca> alpha1 is much too early for accessibility to be working. Not even the installs using the desktop cd are working without orca
<maco> Fudge: oneiric isn't even booting for some of the devs right now, let alone working *well*
<skaet> maco,  there's some known issues on todays builds that are being sorted.    When the alpha 1 images show up on the iso tester, try again then.   Note,  there's a known issue running under kvm that won't be sorted in time for the release. 
<skaet> and yes,  charlie-tca is right,  its too early for accesibility to be working.   Lots of transistions going on right now. 
<maco> skaet: i havent tried at all. i just saw ev & dholbach saying their oneirics weren't booting
<charlie-tca> AlanBell: thanks for the update on Onboard menu item. It never occurred to them that they have been doing exactly that same thing for years?
<AlanBell> charlie-tca: I believe it was a "decluttering" excercise
<AlanBell> but as we now have all that clutter of offering other stuff to you to download it got more confusing
<AlanBell> I believe the theory was you could start it from GDM so the menu option wasn't strictly neccessary
<charlie-tca> I see. I guess I will go beat my head on another wall now
<charlie-tca> Yes, that's right. The GDM thing, which you couldn't really do either when you really needed it.
<charlie-tca> ah, well. At least we get something out of all that.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-06-02
<charlie-tca> I am trying the crashes in dasher again today 
<maco> dasher confuses me
<maco> i tried it once, and it doesnt seem to be all that accurate about heading toward the letter i'm on top of. also, i couldnt figure out how to get it to put the letters i was chasing into the text box that had focus
<Pendulum> maco: you need to start it from command line with dasher -a direct to get it to do direct input
<maco> Pendulum: i did
<Pendulum> huh
<charlie-tca> Iam trying to use it 
<maco> i thought maybe after ive finished the word there's something undocumented that i have to do to tell it to splat that out?
<maco> also, omg the letters fly around so fast i cant chase them
<charlie-tca> it is not crashing for me
<maco> are they supposed to all be lined up? the way you described it before, Pendulum, i thought itd be like a tag cloud style thing of letters
<charlie-tca> change the speed numbers to smaller numbers
<charlie-tca> they wont line up like you think 
<charlie-tca> and I can not get the punctuation working right
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: what's your problem with punctuation?
<maco> i just chased down "All" and then there's a box, which i assume is space, but still, nothing's being put into where my text cursor is
<charlie-tca> apostrophes don't print
<maco> i tried clicking the letters to tell it "no really this one!" but that just seems to pause it
<charlie-tca> instead of clicking, point at the next letter you want in the same colored box
<maco> same coloured box?
<maco> they appear to be nested coloured boxes
<maco> ive tried both with clicking and with just chasing
<Pendulum> maco: what're you trying to input in?
<Pendulum> *into
<charlie-tca> If you are in a blue box for "h", don't go outside the blue to find the next letter. It should be another colored box inside that blue box
<maco> vi
<maco> in a gtk based terminal, not a qt one
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: apostrophes and returns in xchat are failing to show
<charlie-tca> this has a high lerningcurve 
<Pendulum> Attmittedly, I'm still on Maverick, but was mostly work for me
<Pendulum> (until it crashed, but I suspect if I upgraded my dasher that wouldn't be a problem)
<maco> im on maverick too
<Pendulum> *working
<charlie-tca> italso takes a lot of reen for me to use it 
<maco> is it supposed to input the letters as i chase them?
<maco> or when it gets to a space, or what?
<Pendulum> yes
<Pendulum> as you chase them
<maco> im trying in gedit now
<maco> oh hm. do i need to have at-spi registryd going?
<Pendulum> < Pendulum> Attmittedly, I'm still on Maverick, but was mostly work for me
<Pendulum> ^^ was written in Dasher
<charlie-tca> i am on natty Xubuntu 
<maco> kvkbd doesnt need it, so i didnt think dasher would, but maybe on screen keyboards do?
<maco> or rather, *some* on screen keyboard?
<charlie-tca> I think you do need at-spi registryd, but can't remember
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: the latest version of dasher does work better
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: I assumed as much. I've just been distracted by life stuff so not upgraded anything at all recently really
<charlie-tca> understandable. I worked some trying to reproduce the crashes, and even tried the version in git
<charlie-tca> For me, dasher in natty has the least crashes
<charlie-tca> Back to writeing minutes from the meeting 
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: help? I clicked something that made dasher full screen and had to kill it from a tty 
<charlie-tca> how do I make it not full screen?
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> What a deal ;-)
<Pendulum> that I have no idea on
<Pendulum> I've never made it fullscreen
<charlie-tca> don t
<charlie-tca> It is not usable, since you can't see anything but dasher and can't change the app it is inputting to
<Pendulum> yeah
<jono> charlie-tca, Pendulum hey
<jono> would you be interested in doing a Q+A about Accessibility?
<jono> we have these Friday Q+A sessions
<jono> would either of you like to do it/
<jono> ?
<jono> it would be on a Friday at 9.30am Pac time
<Pendulum> charlie-tca: be interested in co-doing it with me?
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> What friday?
<Pendulum> jono: what friday?
<jono> Pendulum, 17th June
<charlie-tca> Pendulum: good for me
<jono> would you like to do it togehter?
<Pendulum> jono: yeah, I think if we do it together, it's probably best
<jono> perfect
<jono> thanks!
 * phillw asks what 09:30 Pac time is in UTC?
<Pendulum> phillw: 16:30 UTC
<phillw> thanks :)
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> 15:30, isn't it?
<charlie-tca> it's 19:35 UTC now
 * phillw hmmm... can we decide? I'm terrible at TZ's :P
<Pendulum> 9:30 Pac time is 12:30 Eastern and 16:30 UTC
<phillw> 17:30 BST = 16:30 UTC, as long as I know - I turned up an hour late for a classroom session - worst bit was, I was holding!
<charlie-tca> try this one - http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html
<maco> jono: there's a pattern to when these Q&As happen? id had teh impression it was "when jono says something in #ubuntu-community-team, followed by everyone else going 'huh?'" :P
<jono> maco, no pattern
<jono> well, there is a pattern, every week
<jono> but no pattern in terms of topics
<phillw> charlie-tca: I have it on my task-bar - the only way I can keep in sync with people!
<charlie-tca> That's why I use orage world clock. I have 18 timezones on my desktop
<charlie-tca> phillw: http://imagebin.org/156515
<charlie-tca> Takes 1/2 inch across the top of my screen
<phillw> Pendulum: are you mad busy?
<Pendulum> phillw: not mad busy at the moment, no, but I'm a little tired so my brain may not be fully working
<phillw> I'll be gentle :)
<phillw> charlie-tca: you have mail :)
<charlie-tca> Thank you. will be happy to advise
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-06-04
<charlie-tca> Anyone got experience with trackballs? What seems to work best for hands that only work part time?
<maco> are you looking for a trackball model?
<charlie-tca> model, brand, whatever works well. Tried the logitech trackball marble, the ball is a bit small
<charlie-tca> ione mechanical is stiff, with a good size ball in it
<charlie-tca> Mouse is hard to use, fingers don't bend well
<charlie-tca> Now thinking about the kensington K64325, but they are a bit high priced if they aren't really good!
<Cheri703> someone in u-w was talking about a trackball the other day
<maco> i think the marble is the only one ive used, sorry
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> appreciate any comments
 * Cheri703 is checking scrollback
<Cheri703> chalcedony was getting the Logitech Trackball M570 set up for her husband...I believe they got it working?
<Cheri703> I have been interested in some of the vertical mice charlie-tca, have you looked at those? I'd think they'd help if there were grip problems (my hands cramp up easily and vertical wrist is more comfortable than horizontal)
<charlie-tca> Haven't looked into them. 
<charlie-tca> Not sure how they would work with weak arms, though
<charlie-tca> I will check on them
<charlie-tca> Got to have pretty good thumbs for the M570, I think
<Cheri703> I just mentioned it since it was a trackball :) I haven't ever used one for more than a few minutes
<Cheri703> http://www.evoluent.com/ this is the primary vertical mouse brand out there
<Cheri703> huh, interesting, they also have a keyboard with the num pad on the left, so the distance between typing hand and mouse hand is less
<charlie-tca> I really do appreciative all suggestions on this. I at least look at all of the stuff.
<charlie-tca> I just tried the thumb trackballs already, and they don't work so good for me. I know they are great for a lot of people though.
<MrChrisDruif> I started on creating a vertical-mouse the other day...
<MrChrisDruif> Still have to tidy it up/finish it :P
<maco> Cheri703: annalee has one of those. she says its a lefthanded keyboard
<Cheri703> entirely possible
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-05-28
<Fudge> have their been any regressions with at-spi for precise. Last few days I have been experiencing strange workplace issues and at times it seemed like my alt commands were not working and had to ltask switch through the launcher. unity-2d
<TheMuso> Fudge: Not so far as I know.
<TheMuso> Fudge: You could try reverting back to at-spi2-core 2.4.1 to be sure.
<Fudge> thanks
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-05-30
<JanC> there is one thing that doesn't work so well with sticky modifiers, it seems... summoning the dash with the super key (but you can do super A and such, so it's not that bad)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-05-31
<Pendulum> I just discovered that my dentist's son has published an article on accessibility for people with autism with regards to computing
<Pendulum> I guess I will be getting in touch with him...
<skaet> Pendulum,  can you point me at the article?   would be interested in reading it.
<Pendulum> skaet: http://affect.media.mit.edu/pdfs/10.Morris-Kirschbaum-Picard.pdf
<skaet> Thanks Pendulum :)
<Pendulum> Now I just have to figure out how to e-mail him without being like "so your dad's my dentist and my mother taught one of your high school English classes" as it sounds a bit awkward
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-06-01
<skaet> Pendulum,  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-accessibility-team-community-goals - is targetted for Q, but doesn't have  a priority & no work items in the new work items section.    What are the plans for Q?
<Pendulum> skaet: they're mostly rebuilding. Sorry, I got sick and forgot to transfer work items over.
<Pendulum> I'll do that now
<skaet> Thanks Pendulum.  :)  mark it obsolete once the transfer over is done please.  :)
<Pendulum> weird. was not supposed to be for Q, but for P
<Pendulum> (I just realised that was last cycle's blueprint)
<Pendulum> I don't know how it got accepted for Q
<Pendulum> (didn't ask for it to be)
<maco> poltergeists
<Pendulum> skaet: ^^ just so you know.
<maco> about the poltergeists?
<skaet> Pendulum,  from the comments,  I think pitti moved it over, and renamed it.   approvals followed
<skaet> without manual intervention. ;)
<Pendulum> ah. because the community accessibility team is doing completely different stuff since we kinda collapsed in terms of people this past cycle
<Pendulum> skaet: I'm going to remove the community team stuff from the one you linked. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-q-accessibility-community-team-plans is this cycle
<skaet> Pendulum,  just mark it obsolete,  that will take care of it.
<Pendulum> done
<skaet> :)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-06-02
<Fudge> hi guys
