#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-06
<TheLordOfTime> d1gital, links to thier upstream code changes?
<TheLordOfTime> d1gital, the Ubuntu packages'll need SRU'd for fixing.
<TheLordOfTime> d1gital, also, for future reference, security questions in #ubuntu-hardened, that's the security team's home :P
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-09
 * genii-around makes more coffee
<AlanBell> nom
<genii-around> I'm pondering to buy the Nexus 7 or not.
<AlanBell> it is a nice device, I have one but have not got Ubuntu on it
<AlanBell> tempted to get a nexus 10
<genii-around> How much more are they?
<AlanBell> about 50 quid I think
<genii-around> Hm
<genii-around> For a 10" tablet I'd probably go with Transformer TF101
<AlanBell> yeah, that does look very nice
<AlanBell> I suspect the nexus 10 might end up with some kind of keyboard dock
<genii-around> Seems they're all going that way, MS Surface same thing
#ubuntu-discuss 2012-11-10
<WatKykJy> I think the other planets. A Mars-sized object could be refilled. All you need to have optimism and think stale.
<IdleOne> Even with context that would have made no sense
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-02
<user___> asdf
<user___> testing
<daftykins> don't do that here.
<user___> oh no, I ruined the discussion
<daftykins> use #test in future :)
<user___> ok, that was actually helpful. thanks
<daftykins> assholes.
<TJ-> daftykins: I saw you had a question for me at 22:10 on Friday evening I think it was :)
<daftykins> TJ-: ah yes, i'm on the wrong PC today though for the logs - but there was a guy with a 15.10 install on a modern MSI gaming spec laptop that i couldn't get optimus working with (as in nvidia-prime)
<TJ-> I recall a few months ago we discovered that nvidia-prime would not work with MUX-less Optimus chipsets; not sure if that is still the case or not
<TJ-> I believe at that time at least it was noted in the -prime README or release notes
<TJ-> There's a /usr/bin/prime-supported that generates /var/log/prime-supported.log, which may be useful in such cases
<daftykins> ooh nifty, the guy just got a blank screen i think
<TJ-> That whole Optimus MUX-less seems stupid if the driver won't/can't support it
<daftykins> i'd have to be on that old laptop to dig up the logs sadly, but i noticed interesting lines in the Xorg log which seemed to refer to each GPU being detected and somehow referring to VT7 and VT8 for each
<TJ-> I wonder if it also depends on which version of the main nvida driver is in use as to whether MUX-less support is enabled
<daftykins> i was aiming for 352 there
<daftykins> guy had a GTX 970M
<daftykins> minimum for that is 346 i believe
<TJ-> I think I'm limited to 340
<daftykins> i got bored and priced up a skylake build :) top end i7, motherboard, 32GB RAM, case... Â£500
<TJ-> will it fit in a laptop?
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> i'd still eye up a Dell XPS 13 9350 for the mobile portion :)
<TJ-> I've not found anything recently as flexible as these Dell XPS M1530s I use; the number of full PCIe ports, expresscard, cellular, etc
<TJ-> Eeeek! pies in the oven! *runs*
<daftykins> D:
<TJ-> Just right! That's the last of 4kg of patry turned into pies :)
<daftykins> O_O that's a lorra pie
<cfhowlett> TJ-, will send you my address via pm.  haven't had  decent pie in way too long ...
<TJ-> yeah, trying to turn all the fruit into frozen pies for the year ahead
<daftykins> mmm
<TJ-> cfhowlett: LOL! i hate to think what they'd cost to ship, they're full to the brim with fruit. I almost dropped 2 getting them out the oven... came over hot-n-cold sweat when I slipped :)
<TJ-> I think I've managed about 40 8"x5" and 20 4" rounds today
 * cfhowlett thinks for the next A-Z ubuntu, we should adopt the names of delicacies, e.g. Terrific Tapioca
<TJ-> Hmmmm.... Ample Apple, Barmy Banana, Chocolate Chip ?
<daftykins> XD
<cfhowlett> TJ-, chocolate chip for the win!
<TJ-> :D
<TJ-> Get mixed up with Android no doubt :)
<Bashing-om> Did I head chocolate chip ?// I did I did hear chocolate chip ... um ummmm .
<TJ-> LOL brings out the choccie monsters every time
<TJ-> Worst part is the washing/cleaning up afterwards. I seem to be able to make more mess baking than with electronics!
<daftykins> !cookie | all_of_us
<ubot5> all_of_us: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<daftykins> 8D
<TJ-> And where's my chocolate chips!?
<daftykins> on the cookies!
<TJ-> hmmm... who stole my chips!?
<TJ-> I suspect Bashing-om in the pantry with the biscuit cutter
<cfhowlett> That's a book title isn't it, TJ?
<TJ-> It soon could be :D
<daftykins> XD
<Bashing-om> One can tell by the smirk on the face .
<TJ-> ... and the chocolate smears on the lips
<daftykins> and the evil cackle
<daftykins> TJ-: oh that reminds me, the user i'm thinking of with nvidia, his xorg log would say 'nomodeset' on the kernel boot params despite not being in /etc/default/grub nor being visible if editing the line in GRUB by hand
<daftykins> confused me hugely
<TJ-> really? that is foing to cause problems if true. I always check with "cat /proc/cmdline" if in doubt
<TJ-> s/foing/going/
<daftykins> 'cause he'd get a blank screen the only way i could get him to check his logs was mounting the disk and reading the log from a live session
<TJ-> well nomodeset would do that. The problem we have is now by default GRUB puts the GPU into GFX mode, so if we have nomodeset the kernel cannot switch it but the drivers try to write to the console framebuffer which isn't being displayed nor can be switched to
<daftykins> all signs pointed to the parameter coming from nowhere :(
<daftykins> anywho i dunno if he'll come back
<TJ-> always check /proc/cmdline or verify the timestamps in the Xorg.X.log are correct and current; I've been caught out where the log is from a prior boot because the log file name is different. I often ask the user to do "ls -latr /var/log" to identify the most recent log file
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> i hoped getting the guy to do his failed boot, power off... then boot live would show the right file
<daftykins> ah maybe it would've remained xorg.0.log if the file was never updated, so maybe after installing the driver his system never got that far... that could be it
<TJ-> the file may also be renamed/backed-up if a failsafe session starts
<TJ-> "dmesg | grep NVRM" is useful to check if there's been any Nvidia problems this boot
<daftykins> mmm he didn't even get TTYs at the time :(
<TJ-> best thing to do when there's no TTYs is /etc/default/grub "GRUB_TERMINAL=console" to disable GFX mode
<TJ-> I'm feeling surrounded in #ubuntu!
<Bashing-om> TJ-: You are ^^, and small backup is fixing to bail on you . Calling it a night .
<TJ-> yeah, gone 3am here, still got washing up to finish, grr
<TJ-> might have to have an apple pie :D
<daftykins> ooh ooh i'll help!
 * Bashing-om remembers licking the spoon when Mom made fudge candies .
<daftykins> 8D
<TJ-> I am terrible for licking out the bowl after making fruit cake... I reckon the unbaked mixture is tastier than the cake
<TJ-> Poor Huskies don't get a look-in!
<daftykins> hahaha, i can imagine the groans from them
<daftykins> "aroooo"
<TJ-> That's a good impression of Pepper!
<Bashing-om> TJ-: We have 3 4-legged children .. If we eat it ... they will ..pepper included ( and tomatoes ) . And OH, how they can beg !
<Bashing-om> good night ... I do call it .
<TJ-> night night
<daftykins> i think i'm gonna scoot too, too tired for this baseball :)
<daftykins> bye folks
<TJ-> night!
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/10/ubuntu-16-04-release-schedule-release-schedule-date-xenial-xerus
<lordievader> Good morning.
<Dylan____> Yo
<Dylan____> Is a Ubuntu bot here??
<lordievader> Dylan____: Yes, ubot5
<lordievader> !bot
<ubot5> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-discuss's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots | Make a clone of me: /msg ubot5 botclone
<EriC^^> afternoon lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> all ok mate?
<EriC^^> i'm good, thanks, you?
<lotuspsychje> fine fine tnx going for sunny walk later
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> how's xenial going?
<EriC^^> did you fix the wifi?
<lotuspsychje> fine, got first updates
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> but no wifi yet, got to connect with cable
<lotuspsychje> i asked the #kernel guys and a guy said its impossible lspci doesnt wanna show the card
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: cant find nothing disabled in bios..
<EriC^^> yeah that's super odd
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: so next what ill be testing is a live trusty usb
<lotuspsychje> to see if card gets recognized
<EriC^^> sounds good
<lotuspsychje> so we sure its about the kernel or not
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> but xenial itself is rocknroll
<lotuspsychje> libreoffice 5, firefox 42
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> booting from the ssd xenial?
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, yes
<lotuspsychje> nice
<BluesKaj> samsung evo 850 250Gb ssd
<lotuspsychje> cfhowletttttttttttttttt
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i cant get my wifi to work on xenial, think it could be kernel related?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: tryed swithing pci slots, but lspci even doesnt show the card
<BluesKaj> uhoh
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: worked fine on trusty
<BluesKaj> I haven't upgraded my laptop to Xenial yet, still on Wily ....which wifi chip ?
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje,^
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: its a linksys pci card ralink corp
<lotuspsychje> not sure wich type anymore
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: ill test later on trusty usb, to see if it gets recognized still there
<BluesKaj> oh ralink is quite common, odd that lspci doesn't see it
<lotuspsychje> yeah weird
<BluesKaj> but it is very early in the OS development stage
<lotuspsychje> yeah ill connect with cable for nox
<lotuspsychje> no sweat
<BluesKaj> is this desktop wifi?
<lotuspsychje> yes
<lotuspsychje> because my box is upstairs
<lotuspsychje> got 2 antena's
<lotuspsychje> and linksys are very wide range devices
<BluesKaj> ok that's not real common, but it should be workable
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: yeah like i say, things worked like a charm before on trusty
<lotuspsychje> ill let you know when i test trusty live again
<BluesKaj> ok
* You're now known as ubuntulog2
<OerHeks> Now who is it, EriC^^ ...
<EriC^^> no idea
<EriC^^> i tried grep -r "ip.*joined" .. nothing showed up
<EriC^^> i think he's trolling or confused
<EriC^^> ah found him
<OerHeks> oh, panv troll ..
<OerHeks> that dude is using many names, i guess.
<wileee> heh got a virus warning on my samsung linux running tv, when I called up the browser
<wileee> a popup anyway
<wileee> blocked the browser, did a reset on the TV no issue now
<OerHeks> this ? voice activation alert http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31296188
<OerHeks> i was planning to buy a tv, sure no smart tv for now.
<wileee> mine doesn't have that option, samsung has an addon device, must be on that with other stuff.
<OerHeks> all those pixels are just little eyes, watching you
<wileee> lol, I felt the tingling
<wileee> some file missing was the warning, knowing linux av, it's a tag you have to investigate for an answer, could be anything
<TJ-> anyone know if 'weva' sorted out his mysterious GUI-induced encryption lock-out ?
<OerHeks> nope
<daftykins> another joker in charge of systems they shouldn't be ;)
<OerHeks> questions ending with :P
<Bashing-om> Yall, just pardon me; I may become moreso the shy retiring type .
<daftykins> Bashing-om: d'aww why-so?
<daftykins> uh oh wessles is back
<daftykins> prepare yourselves!
<TJ-> These people that think we can tell them with 100% certainity how to manage their own remote systems, but when we suggest they test the solution first, don't want to know! Shouldn't be let loose in charge of systems at all
<daftykins> *nod* must be kids imo
<daftykins> same with the one that wants help setting up the mumble thing
<TJ-> I think many of them are so-called 'DevOps' with no Ops and very little Dev!
<daftykins> :)
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Presently, just not in the mood to do their thinking for them .
<daftykins> ah indeed, i feel much the same - we've been swamped with a lot of undesirables the last few days
<Bashing-om> Constantly amazed, Ask for help, we give a recommendation, and off they go on some wild tangent .
<daftykins> *nod* :(
<daftykins> EriC^: evening o/
<EriC^> evening o/
<daftykins> all the circumflexes!
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: WB .
<EriC^^> thx Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Hoz the job hunt progressing ?
<EriC^^> not much
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Well, something is bound to turn up .
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> i'll probably look later or something
<TJ-> Going to be quiet for a few days; UOS starts Tuesday
<EriC^^> does anybody like skating and have shockwave?
<EriC^^> nevermind
<daftykins> TJ-: what's that?
<TJ-> Ubuntu Online Summit - the successor of the UDS
<TJ-> http://summit.ubuntu.com/
<EriC^^> troll season i see
<TJ-> might be worth following the 'convergence' track to figure out the ramifications of the Unity 8 transition, snap, and so on
<EriC^^> ( in #ubuntu right now )
<daftykins> been non-stop idiots for days :(
<TJ-> I think the Core track, EFI session tomorrow at 1500 UTC will be interesting: EFI Capsule Update and Fallback: "Ubuntu should support updating firmware for systems and components; we should also further define the behavior for EFI fallbacks."
<daftykins> O_O
<EriC^^> nice
<TJ-> indeed, I think I'll weigh in on that one
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-03
<daftykins> guy can't even work out when a path exists :(
<TJ-> You wonder why I'm quiet?!
<Bashing-om> Sgt Schartz: " I know nuthing " .
<TJ-> oh love-er-ly ... Ubuntu with snappy packaging is now termed "Ubuntu Personal" and everything preceeding it is called 'legacy applications'
<TJ-> Way-to-go in marginalising
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> once standard .deb packages are gone, that's really going to cut off some of the bridges ubuntu has as a distro, no?
<TJ-> They won't go, but this push to Snappy is doing what the push to Unity/Phone did, but moreso
<TJ-> Turn off a large part of the settled casual techy base why can choose to go elsewhere, leaving the clueless users and the bleeding-edge devs and very little in between
<TJ-> s/why/who/
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> it did seem to me like snappy might spell a time to move off ubuntu, yeah
<TJ-> I love the technical idea; it is long overdue, but I hate the way it feels like it is dictated without consultation even with active users/supporters like us.
<TJ-> binary diffs, contained apps that don't cause dependency issues outside their own requirements, that's all good stuff and means users can get more up-to-date application versions even long into, say, an LTS cycle, without the pain of backports
<Bashing-om> @ 10.04 I became comfortanle with ubuntu, then the changes just kept coming . Now I like what I have, and I have no desire for any changes . What am I to do in this new world .
<TJ-> I'm going to drop my oar in on the 'convergence' meetings, regarding lack of developer design/support/testing for decent multi-monitor/GPU configurations
<TJ-> And I want to see if there's a QA session where I can bring up the need for automated fault detection and reporting, by monitoring log files
<Bashing-om> TJ-: ^ great thought .. wonderful way to build a solid data base .
<TJ-> The only one I see is the 16.04 LTS Desktop QA Plan tomorrow/today 1600 UTC
<OerHeks> wine in ubuntu on a windows host.. lolz
<OerHeks> now a graphic test suite
<OerHeks> oh there is lotus
<Bashing-om> shift change ! lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks and Bashing-om
<OerHeks> yeah, special for you: ubuntu in virtualbox, on a windows host, help needed with opengl3
<lotuspsychje> brrrr
 * lotuspsychje hides
<lotuspsychje> hi daftykins :p
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: from now on, ill take only singleboot ubuntu support lol
<daftykins> ^_^
<OerHeks> I don't even do single boot :-D
<lotuspsychje> haha
<OerHeks> 2 kernels else ..
<lotuspsychje> zero boot
<lotuspsychje> no boot device found
<OerHeks> How long does it take to print 10 trillion dollars?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: is that a trick question?
<lotuspsychje> my scanner isnt too big :p
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/10/ubuntu-16-04-release-schedule-release-schedule-date-xenial-xerus
<lotuspsychje> no hot news today
<OerHeks> answer: 8 years .. https://www.rt.com/usa/320548-obama-signs-deal-double/
<lotuspsychje> oO
<lotuspsychje> trillions like candy
<lotuspsychje> another ubuntu toy: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/orbbec-persee-world-s-first-3d-camera-computer#/story
<lotuspsychje> grabbed@ https://twitter.com/ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> soon our homes gonna turn into an ubuntu jungle with spiderdrones, flying drone with security cam,mycroft to make you real lazy and orbbec to keep an eye
<daftykins> someone give skweek a perfect "find" command for large files in their entire / file system if they know it? :)
<daftykins> i would only guess something like "find / -size 100M"
<lotuspsychje> the space pie icon helped me alot in the past
<lotuspsychje> cleaning out specific folders
<Bashing-om> daftykins: ' sudo find / -type f -size +1G -exec du -h {} \; 2>/dev/null | sort -hr | head -n 10 ' .
<daftykins> Bashing-om: excellent :D
<daftykins> one mo we spotted that huge kern.log
<lotuspsychje> !info libreoffice xenial
<ubot5> 'xenial' is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed
<daftykins> ;) too early
<Bashing-om> checking out. lotuspsychje I leave my heavy work to you , Have fun !
<OerHeks> daftykins, 403 .. as it is in an encrypted home
<daftykins> is it?
<daftykins> when was encrypted usage shared?
<OerHeks> Yes, <OerHeks> DDR, i hope your /home is not encrypted with that nginx setup
<OerHeks> [05:45:01] <DDR> It doesn't show that. I must have messed that up.
<OerHeks> [05:45:14] <DDR> OerHeks: It is. Why?
<OerHeks> 15 min ago
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> different channel?
<OerHeks> no in #ubuntu
<daftykins> hmm missed that one :D
<OerHeks> I noticed, so i took the liberty to say it here again
<OerHeks> so sad seeing people help, without all the info
<OerHeks> also BAD from this guy, not to mention his setup
<daftykins> yeah :(
<daftykins> mmm thanks for the warning there :)
<daftykins> glad i didn't try any further with that one
<OerHeks> :-)
<OerHeks> again this channel is needed for backtalks
<daftykins> :D absolutely
<daftykins> i'm really glad it's here now, makes the volunteering so much easier
<BluesKaj> hiyas all
<daftykins> greetings!
<OerHeks> heya !
<daftykins> how's OerHeks today? :)
<daftykins> (brb fetching lunch)
<OerHeks> I feel shaken.
<daftykins> earthquake?
<OerHeks> You know, when you know you did zomething, someone else says you didn't ...
<OerHeks> Just found out, i paid 2x rent in may 2011 .. so i get a month return
<OerHeks> It always crossed my mind, i am a fool but i know what i do.
<daftykins> yay :D
<daftykins> haha i did something like that, i paid my water bill manually when it's set to come out automatically
<daftykins> so one quarter i had like Â£1.30 to pay :D
<daftykins> TJ-: afternoon sir o/
<TJ-> Hiya... off again... damned IPv6 isn't being used again!
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> oh dear not pikapi again
<OerHeks> the troll yes
<TJ-> Grrrr, I'm so angry right now I want to drop a nuke on the Chinese devs that were responsible for the code in the CPE!
<cfhowlett> please don't tj.  I'm in Beijing and have no way to get to a fallout shelter in time.
<TJ-> :D I'll program it to leave you a nice little garden
<TJ-> Besides, I doubt they're in Beijing... more likely much further south!
<TJ-> Damned thing 'forgot' the WAN and LAN-side IPv6 specific settings ... but nothing else, and I couldn't figure out why the LAN had no connectivity!
<TJ-> I'm even more pissed off now! I signed up for the UoS UEFI session, 1500 today, just got it sorted in time ... and there's no sign of the session, its even disappeared from the UoS web-site!!
 * TJ- rolls eyes ... yay! moved to 1800 Wednesday ... no warning!
<daftykins> TJ-: some ISP supplied box?
<TJ-> daftykins: Nope, Zyxel stuff I've been hacking; this one has the OEM stock firmware in. The others I've been porting OpenWRT too but that's a slow job so they aren't connected to VDSL yet
<TJ-> It makes be cry to watch the boot-console ... so many warnings/errors scroll by. Amazing it works at all
<daftykins> ah i didn't know you did that :D good little router OS that one
<daftykins> just volunteering i take it?
<TJ-> I've been doing it for a Scandanvian ISP. I have 3 hooked up to my serial multiplexer so I can work on them
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i'd love to get off the stock firmware on this Technicolor i have from my ISP
<TJ-> VMG8{3,9}24-B10A
<daftykins> at least you can disable TR.069 via telnet
<TJ-> Yes. The problem is shoe-horning in all the binary-only VDSL support on these devices
<daftykins> ah :(
<daftykins> why do they do it that way?
<daftykins> secret sauce modem chatter? :D
<TJ-> Typical proprietary stuff; much if it taken unchanged from Broadcom, and you know what they're like
<BluesKaj> been thinking of flashing my tp-link 3600 router with openwrt, but I don't have the nerve since the current oem seems to work fine
<daftykins> mmm usually not worth the risk if you don't have a backup
<TJ-> So a F/OSS build has to both figure out the low-level API and ABI to be compatible, AND separate the proprietary stuff out so it can be individually installed by end-users but not distributed. It makes for a complete mess.
<BluesKaj> daftykins, yeah , it's difficult to suppress that urge to tinker, like Dr Strangelove :-)
<TJ-> Generally router firmware updates are trouble-free these days, especially since most provide a web-interface to do it. The thing to always remember is BACKUP a TEXT version of the settings - even if that means writing them down on paper - and resetting the config before/after a firmware update to ensure the new version uses a correct config
<daftykins> TJ-: indeed, i got tricked doing a friends 3com ADSL router once which wiped itself on update, despite having a friendly GUI
<TJ-> the problem being, the config is stored in NVRAM, and different versions change the place/variable/string and values of some settings. Inheriting config from a different version can cause the config parse to choke
<daftykins> thankfully it's just a phone call to our main local ISP for a password ;D
<BluesKaj> TJ-, I do have the original firmware binary(s) just in case
<TJ-> daftykins: that's worrying!
<TJ-> they should only have a hashed version
<daftykins> i'm following a friends advice to buy a little embedded box with 3 NICs to setup this config i need for Spain where some traffic will be sent over a VPN depending on rules
<daftykins> he's a pfsense fan ;)
<daftykins> TJ-: hey how do you fancy being posted a Technicolor TG789vn v3 to play with? ;) i see a TG582n is already in the support table
<daftykins> oh maybe not working though :D
<TJ-> If you can wait a year :D I'm so overloaded I don't know where to turn currently :D
<TJ-> Usually I just run off with the Huskies :D
<daftykins> i'll walk them for a month! ;)
<daftykins> hehe, in fairness i should probably just buy a proper router instead of using the ISP supplied one
<daftykins> it only does 130Mbps 802.11n
<TJ-> 'only' !!
<TJ-> some folks are SO spoiled :D
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> but then i'm sane and use lovely cat6 to all my gear
<daftykins> my 17th century place here is made of 2+ foot thick guernsey granite, so that hampers things
<TJ-> My VDSL originally did 11Mbps... now down to 8Mbps due to crosstalk, and that is with the help of the passive G.Vector and better codecs in these Zyxels. Without that the BT-supplied Huewai manages about 6Mbps
<daftykins> :(
<TJ-> When we (my company) used to do those kinds of installs we'd generally put the WAP in the loft space with directional antennas beaming down through the floors. Only time we were caught out was when be discovered the building had beena  former radiation labatory and had faraday cages all round every room!
<daftykins> i guess you've got quite the rural spot?
<daftykins> wow that's quite the niche setup
<TJ-> Yes, but a good quality copper line 2km out, so lucky to get any type of VDSL
<TJ-> There's a few hills else we'd put in a simple mcirowave link and be able to take a feed from next to the street cabinet
<daftykins> ouch yeah that's quite the run
<daftykins> my line sync here: MaxBitRateDown : 51608000 bps (51.6 Mbps)   MaxBitRateUp 20086000 bps (20.0 Mbps)
<daftykins> reported by "unpnc -s" from the miniupnpc package, pretty handy that :D
<daftykins> as the router web admin doesn't even tell you
<TJ-> I'm looking for a new place somewhere much further North as well so no point investing too much on it here. I'm planning on digging in my own fibre for the new location. It's a pain figuring out the potential POPs for a fibre connection though, even when there's lots of dark fibre around.
<daftykins> i was just reading a post on a news site about a farmer guy in Scandinavia somewhere that laid his own 8km run of fibre for about Â£30,000
<daftykins> er, or was that Â£3,000
<TJ-> 30k sounds about right
<TJ-> the hard part is when you've got to run along public highways
<daftykins> http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/08/want-fiber-internet-thatll-be-383500-isp-tells-farm-owner/?comments=1&post=29545117
<daftykins> ah no, $4000 USD
<daftykins> is UK law awkward about that?
<TJ-> No, but you generally need a specialist company to do that part. The hard part is, you have to notify all public utilities or the intended route so they can send out engineers to mark on the ground where their cables/pipes/services are, and knowing who to talk to is the hard part.
<TJ-> s/or/of/
<daftykins> >_<
<TJ-> Makes sense, since you could be digging up electric, gas, water, other fibre, copper phone, private links and other stuff
<daftykins> yeah, i suppose it has to be buried
<daftykins> i just started installing kubuntu 15.10 in a VM... wow.
<daftykins> never seen such an incredibly odd looking desktop
<TJ-> haha! I can't watch the UoS live streams because...
<TJ-> ... they require Adobe Flash!
<daftykins> wow, shame on Canonical
<daftykins> don't fancy infecting your systems with chromium and pepperflash? :)
<OerHeks> :-(
<TJ-> UoS is a total joke
<TJ-> Nope, I don't allow proven insecure stuff
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> a very fair choice
<OerHeks> on chrome the video's do show..
<daftykins> ah so you can't anonymously view, how annoying
<TJ-> Apparently, the Live feeds are Flash only
<TJ-> This is the kind of thing that tells me Canonical/Ubuntu is not serious about the Freedom in F/OSS; liek using Google Hangouts too... requiring registration with Google.
<daftykins> that is pretty terrible
<TJ-> They take the Summits online instead of real-life conferences... to me that infers a responsibility to ensure the delivery is polished and much better, not piecemeal, disorganised, and proprietary
<TJ-> Looks like the rest of my week is free then; this is a pointless waste of time. Disappointed in Ubuntu.
<daftykins> :(
<TJ-> People complaining the sound is unintelligable too
<daftykins> i'm annoyed i can't just watch without reg
<TJ-> do you have a launchpad account?
<daftykins> yep
<TJ-> it uses UbuntuONE SSO so you can just use that ID
<BluesKaj> not impressed with the direction shuttleworth has taken, looks too much like the redhat path to enterprise
<TJ-> BluesKaj: that's the thing; he wants Canonical to make a profit, and that will only come from Enterprise
<TJ-> The push to phones and tablets is as much to do with being able to take a percentage, but that is what has caused so much disaffection for the desktop users that made Ubuntu
<BluesKaj> not happy with 250 million he received for his company in South Africa I reckon
<TJ-> I thought Thawte sold for more than that. However, he's sunk a great deal into Canonical/Ubuntu so there's no argument there. My issue has become the way it has been dressed up as a 'Community' when it isn't
<daftykins> did he just sell something down there?
<TJ-> No, years ago, that's how he became independently wealthy. Thawte was an upstart Certificate Authority that undercut Verisign
<BluesKaj> it's sad for kubuntu, we don't know what the future holds
<TJ-> BluesKaj: I doubt much; I was considering devoting a lot of my time to Kubuntu as a developer but the way things have gone I'd be wasting my time.
<daftykins> ah i see
<TJ-> Canonical was getting through Â£20-50 million a year the last I checked; someone has got to pay the developers wages, and that needs to be paying customers.
<BluesKaj> TJ-, wish you'd change your mind, we need all the help we can get ...I'm not dev but i like testing what's in the pipe so to speak, running on 16.04 as we speak
<BluesKaj> Blue Systems has supposedly taken Kubuntu under it's wing , but I don't see a lot of communication from them
<TJ-> BluesKaj: I don't like the approach of Kubuntu; I'm not interested in just wrapping KDE projects in debian packaging, which is all it amounts to. And it is SO disorganised, no well-defined process, as a Dev you're going to spend most time trying to figure out how to work with the tooling
<TJ-> I suggested a fix for an issue last week, which made most sense as an Ubuntu-specific patch in the packaging and was told be sitter that "we don't do that" and "upstream must approve all patches" - what's the point of packaging a separate distro if upstream calls the shots?
<TJ-> s/be/by/
 * BluesKaj nods
<BluesKaj> I ran debian jessie with kde a few months back just to what changes had been made between kubuntu 14.04 and jessie , there were some differences like th audio backend etc , but effectively the 2 distros had more similarities than differences.
<daftykins> probably a good sign to jump ship to debian then, may as well get it at source than via a third party, so to speak
<daftykins> Bashing-om: hiya o/
<BluesKaj> daftykins, well, if kubuntu goes away then debian and kde it is, for me at least
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Getting back in the saddle, 'nother fun ride (?) . A good day to ya !
<BluesKaj> not interested in mint or netrunner or any of those wannabe's
<daftykins> Bashing-om: :D seems a *little* better today, users in #ubuntu wise
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I have my doubts about "better" seeing Sergey's stubborness . Lead a user to good practice, can not make them .... !
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i see he used the intel graphics driver installer too =|
<daftykins> common mistake that one
<Bashing-om> I have yet to see a good result by overriding Intel default open source graphic's driver. Now that is a fact .
<daftykins> *nod* just messy PPAs to clean up after
<daftykins> TJ-: your favourite pal weva is back
<daftykins> ;)
<TJ-> I just got back too; been out venting my frustration :D
<OerHeks> i spoke to weva earlier, he is blaiming us for the help .. but the whole story is a bit strange.
<daftykins> ah no good deed goes unpunished
<TJ-> blaming us? in what way?
<OerHeks> dd-ing a faulty drive .. then mounting the images .. now the original hdd is ruined .. shoot me.
<daftykins> ugh a client wants to drive 2 x 2560x1440 res screens from a laptop and wants me to find one with a budget of Â£300-400
<OerHeks> luks+lvm, when something goes wrong, we did it.
<TJ-> I did a lot of diagnosis and he claimed some GUI tool created the encrypted devices, but I could make no sense of it
<TJ-> I think it was supposedly gnome disks, if there is such a thing
<OerHeks> Yes, i tried to read back, no suck action is said by us, only on the copy
<TJ-> When I joined in he was trying to find frostshultz or some similar nickname
<daftykins> yeah that guy spoke a few lines then ran away quickly
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> oh now it was not on this channe;
<TJ-> I've pulled in all the IRC logs; I'll see what the history is
<OerHeks> I am about to ask what channel ..
<OerHeks> the last 2-3 days were many encrypted dudes with problems..
<TJ-> looks like this is the start:
<TJ-> /tmp/2015-11-01-#ubuntu.txt:[22:57] <weva> hello everyone, I created and mounted some disk images on my home folder. and I moved them elsewhere be
<TJ-> cause my drive warned that there was no more free space. but after moving them, it still shows zero free space
<OerHeks> jups that is the start
<TJ-> I'll pastebin what grep pulled out
<TJ-> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13092879/
<daftykins> oh dear that daftykins fellow stuck his beak in ;)
<daftykins> caught a whiff of 'LUKS' then ran for the hills
<OerHeks> the original issue: <weva>	frostschutz, this was a partition that I properly created as encrypted, and then transferred 2,5 gb of files into, and locked before powering off the drive. in the next session, the partition was shown as "unknown"
<TJ-> :D I don't know why! LUKS is the best thing to come for Linux encryption!
<OerHeks> so goodbye data
<daftykins> i just don't have a clue of encryption at all :)
<TJ-> OerHeks: right; I don't believe it was LUKS at all. I suspect it was plain dm_crypt but as he used some GUI tool there's no knowing. The block device certainly did NOT have a LUKS header, although the encrypted data did start at a 4MiB offset
<TJ-> daftykins: time to get up-to-speed on it :)
<daftykins> naaah i'll never use it :>
<TJ-> pffft!
<OerHeks> glad someone in an other channel ruined it.
<OerHeks> oke i have wrecked many servers and desktops from 2009 to now ..
<OerHeks> but this is an endless loop, i am afraid
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<daftykins> \o heya
<lotuspsychje> hy daftykins
<TJ-> Evening, is it pie n chips time already?!
<daftykins> TJ-: i didn't get my invite ;)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: hey mate, we just had warm soup n bread
<TJ-> :D nor me!
<TJ-> need something more than soup to keep me going today :P
<lotuspsychje> the boss of the dos, naturally :p
<lotuspsychje> they pull the lace, and you have to run along :p
<lotuspsychje> *dogs
<TJ-> Not them today; jsut been extremely frustrated/disappointed with the Ubuntu Online Summit organisation, so need some comfort-food :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: howso frustrated?
<daftykins> it needs flash!
 * daftykins gasps all over again
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I shan't repeat myself; but was intending taking part in UOS and been disillusioned by how poorly it is organised and the technical services being essentially proprietary
<lotuspsychje> hmmm
<lotuspsychje> organisation fault?
<TJ-> badly designed; badly executed
<daftykins> well well - http://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-DisplayPort-Multi-Stream-Transport/dp/B00XXPYGPO/
<daftykins> displayport multistream hubs!
<TJ-> hahaha quote of the day: "every thing is ok, but the printer does not print"
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: check this out: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-16.04-LTS-UOS
<TJ-> what am I looking at?
<lotuspsychje> online summit?
<lotuspsychje> relevant article bout it
<TJ-> Oh, I was (trying) to take part but various things were broke: http://summit.ubuntu.com/
<daftykins> one would think that's the sole job of a printer :)
<TJ-> My laser is just there to keep my toes warm on a cold day :)
<lotuspsychje> https://twitter.com/Canonical
<TJ-> crikey. Ubuntu no longer has a maintainer for the Network Manager packages, apparently for a while now
<daftykins> TJ-: ooh the German lad with the funky optimus laptop setup is PMing me
<lotuspsychje> funky lol
<daftykins> i'm suggesting he check that /var/log/prime-supported.log
<daftykins> nope file doesn't exist
<lotuspsychje> maybe after nvidia-prime is installed?
<daftykins> blank screen when that's on
<lotuspsychje> in combination with wich driver?
<daftykins> 352
<daftykins> GTX 980M in an MSI laptop
<TJ-> got to "sudo /usr/bin/prime-supported" first
<lotuspsychje> we had some users with issues on 970 also on 15.05/15.10
<daftykins> how should i get him to boot though, he can only get a workable desktop or TTYs with nomodeset right now
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: hellowwww
<daftykins> ah he failed to mount
<EriC^^> hi lotuspsychje
<daftykins> TJ-: /var/log/prime-supported.log said "No offloading required. Abort"
<daftykins> here's his live session dmesg which required nomodeset to boot - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13093862/
<daftykins> this is one expensive machine, i7-6700HQ :)
<daftykins> happy to suggest he move it to the channel so you're not having to go via me :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> vgaarb: setting as boot device: PCI:0000:00:02.0  <<< likely the Intel device
<daftykins> so if no offload is needed, is the intel ok to be the boot device?
<TJ-> [    4.681571] efifb: mode is 1920x1080x32, linelength=7680, pages=1
<TJ-> [    4.688636] fb0: EFI VGA frame buffer device
<daftykins> ooh so it could've brought up an image but somehow not be showing it, wrong viewport perhaps?
<daftykins> actually that's the live session so not even hugely relevant atm
<daftykins> i've made him try another normal boot, then going back into the live session to read logs from disk again
<TJ-> this'll be the nvidia: [    0.357269] pci 0000:01:00.0: [10de:13d8] type 00 class 0x030200
<TJ-> and the intel: [    0.354866] pci 0000:00:02.0: [8086:191b] type 00 class 0x030000
<lotuspsychje> dear lord what have they done agai now
<lotuspsychje> http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-imposes-deadline-for-new-pcs-with-windows-7-or-8-october-31-2016/
<OerHeks> :-D
<TJ-> so on an installed boot, without nvidia, i915 and nouveau would likely the expected drivers
<daftykins> TJ-: here's what he sees attempting a boot without 'nomodeset' with the nvidia driver 352 or 346 installed and nvidia-prime : http://imgur.com/VbR7dfK
<TJ->   looks like its in text console mode there; is that a Recovery boot?
<daftykins> hmm i wonder if he's picking the wrong one to edit
<TJ-> Has the user tried Ctrl+Alt+F1-F7 in case the active VT is elsewhere?
<daftykins> yeah apparently any press of any Fx combo results in the screen blanking, then it never changes again
<TJ-> the font rendering in that image looks like a text-mode VGA font; not graphics mode
<TJ-> Is there no sign of the Plymouth splash then?
<TJ-> If the system is booting in EFI mode AND the uefi-vga framebuffer driver is loading, it is possible that somehow that causes a conflict with intel/nvidia
<ioria> Eric^^ are you around ?
<TJ-> we'd need to see the dmesg/kern.log for that
<EriC^^> ioria: hey yeah
<EriC^^> what's up?
<lotuspsychje> parttioning hell :p
<ioria> there is  a guy with dual boot  issues (?)
<ioria> a bit confused
<ioria> DofDow
<EriC^^> ok
<ioria> now is  partitioning an external usb
<daftykins> yeah here's this phantom nomodeset - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13094061/ from /mnt/var/log/kern.log
<daftykins> so the log is grabbed from the install, mounted in the live session - yet he swears he presses 'e' to edit and confirms no 'modeset' is present on the boot entry
<daftykins> i'm stumped :D
<TJ-> daftykins: that log is Oct 30th
<daftykins> oh yeah 29th even
<TJ-> last entries 30th, after a boot
<daftykins> oh ja
<TJ-> daftykins: "ls -latr /mnt/var/log/" and see what was most recently updated
<daftykins> roger that
<daftykins> must not be getting far enough to write o0
<TJ-> daftykins: ask if any external devices are connected (that it might be booting from) - USB hard drives, flash storage, etc.
<lotuspsychje> pcieport 0000:00:1c.0: AER: Corrected error received: id=00e0
<lotuspsychje> alot of those daftykins
<daftykins> he has mentioned there's a BIOS update available
<TJ-> Yes, the firmware looks BADLY broken
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13094096 logs ls
<TJ-> there are loads of methig parse/execution errors
<daftykins> so yeah nothing has even emerged into November yet
<daftykins> so any test boots aren't making it very far?
<daftykins> ok, i think i'm going to suggest the BIOS update is put on
<lotuspsychje> 0.933492] aer 0000:00:1c.4:pcie02: service driver aer loaded
<lotuspsychje> Oct 30 17:27:41 tobias-PC kernel: [    0.933507] pcieport 0000:00:01.0: Signaling PME through PCIe PME interrupt
<TJ-> looks like it is likely hanging in the initrd.img, hence no logs since 31st
<daftykins> i was suggesting the intel wifi module error couldn't surely be affecting things
<TJ-> Id' also look at what was last installed according to /mnt/var/log/dpkg.log on the 30th; I'd bet whatever applied there is at the root of the issues
<TJ-> it could be the initrd.img is corrupt and needs recreating. chroot for that
<TJ-> is there a separate /boot/
<daftykins> nah, just / and /home
<TJ-> check the initrd.img s in /boot/ then
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/IEvviHi ;)
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/XqHea9A - 'Broke bios is suspected.'
<daftykins> it's not its' fault it didn't have the opportunities we all did ;)
<TJ-> looks like those Chinese devs got their hands on it, too :p
<lotuspsychje> xenial packages database ubottu updated@ #ubuntu+1
<lotuspsychje> just letting you guys know
<daftykins> do we reckon he's up a creek without a paddle then - assuming the initrd is ok?
<TJ-> summit is getting farcical; several people nattering on without testing the microphones, people cannot hear anything. *sigh* where did professionalism go?
<OerHeks> trolls should reinstall. period.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> daftykins: it looks that way; very broken for sure, although I doubt the ACPI EC error is causing the screen issue directly.
<daftykins> TJ-: okie dokie, thanks for your input :) gonna try the chroot to double check
<daftykins> what would i be better off instructing, an install --reinstall of the kernel package?
<TJ-> just an "update-initramfs -u -k <VERSION>"
<daftykins> where ver has to be a full uname -r string, or?
<daftykins> it's ok, spotted the man page :D
<TJ-> yes
<TJ-> 3.13.0-55-generic
<TJ-> is there another PC available that could ssh in? might be worth installing openssh-server in the chroot whilst its there, and when the PC appears to hang find out its IP address from the router and try an SSH session
<daftykins> sounds like a plan
<lotuspsychje> what a nice crew we got here :p
<daftykins> imgur.com/4ZLOqM4
<daftykins> oops http://imgur.com/4ZLOqM4 there's the result after initramfs rebuild
<daftykins> so looks like it's just a no go for Linux on that one
<OerHeks> maybe there is a bios update?
<daftykins> applied just earlier, yeah
<lotuspsychje> hi wileee
<TJ-> daftykins: any network response?
<lotuspsychje> hi philipballew
<daftykins> TJ-: ah i'd not gone that far yet
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I am off to dinner; let minas114 know if they return. hopefully there'll be good news
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: ok
<lotuspsychje> lets see if it can solve the acpi :p
<TJ-> good job I didn't go!
<lotuspsychje> loool
<lotuspsychje> no dinner yet for you!
<TJ-> 2nd time lucky!
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
 * daftykins distracts TJ- further
<daftykins> apparently on rebooting normally without nomodeset to test SSH connection, plymouth showed up O_O
<TJ-> ha! so nomodeset was there?
<daftykins> nah he says he didn't add it this boot
<daftykins> as it was the SSH test, although it doesn't connect
<TJ-> so been adding it manually? So with splash up, does 'Esc' send it away and display the console?
<TJ-> it might be worth trying to boot to the busybox shell in initrd.img with "break=init" on the kernel command-line. If it gets that far, then something in the root file-system/systemd-init process may be at fault
<daftykins> >8\/
<daftykins> i almost said just try 14.04.3 ;)
<daftykins> perhaps when you're feeling bored after dinner i can suggest he highlight you sir :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> initrd.img's /init shell script has many places where it can be stopped, by putting the appropriate 'name' after "break=" there are things like 'mount' 'pre-mount' etc
<daftykins> on a reboot he says the screen is just purple this time, escape does nothing
<TJ-> the function maybe_break() checks for the setting. You can list the current options with "grep maybe_break /usr/share/initramfs-tools/init"
<TJ-> sounds like locked up
<daftykins> yeah, pretty frozen
<TJ-> You know, it amazes me how people can fail on quote marks!
<lotuspsychje> "what do you mean" :p
<daftykins> '"surely not'"..;;;
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * TJ- throws Spag Bol
 * daftykins dives and catches in mouth
<TJ-> right, I'm off to eat before the Huskies get there first
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit TJ-
<daftykins> arooooooooooooooooooo!
<daftykins> i should do that food thing too
 * lotuspsychje hides
<TJ-> Grrr, no food, hungry tummy!
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje throws some chili chips to TJ- 
<lotuspsychje> !info libreoffice xenial
<ubot5> 'xenial' is not a valid distribution: kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed
<TJ-> om yom yom!
 * daftykins goes to the kitchen
<lotuspsychje> Pici: good evening :p
<Pici> !info bash xenial
<TJ-> troll alert! Xenial basher in! :D
<ubot5> bash (source: bash): GNU Bourne Again SHell. In component main, is required. Version 4.3-14ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 576 kB, installed size 1560 kB
<lotuspsychje> ahaa working :p
<Pici> ;)
<lotuspsychje> tnx Pici
<Pici> np
<Pici> now to bash the rest of the bot clones
<lotuspsychje> how many you have :p
<Pici> 7 total bots, not counting meetingology
<lotuspsychje> wow alot of clones
<Pici> ubottu itself is in about 40 channels, after that it gets a bit laggy
<lotuspsychje> must be strong server
<lotuspsychje> Jordan_U: good evening :p
<Jordan_U> lotuspsychje: And to you :)
<lotuspsychje> we discussing relevant issues here lately with each other, to help users more efficiently
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: http://news.softpedia.com/news/fedora-23-workstation-server-and-cloud-is-out-495698.shtml
<TJ-> Anyone else think we need a 'tuneup' package, that contains scripts that analyse/apply common fixes for widespread issues?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: what does that mean in eglish
<lotuspsychje> english
<TJ-> tune-up is like automobile engine tuning
<TJ-> adjust its config to make it perform optimally
<lotuspsychje> !info tune-up
<ubot5> Package tune-up does not exist in vivid
<TJ-> I was thinking on the amount of time we and users waste repeating the same steps, which a script could do in less than a second
<Pici> for what though?
<TJ-> acpi osi is becoming common; gpu, especially Optimus; creating chroot; cryptswap breakage
<lotuspsychje> yeah acpi and optimus are burning hot on 15.04 and 15.10
<lotuspsychje> tons of users weekly on same issues
<TJ-> scanning all logs files for known clues and pointing to known fixes/workarounds
<Pici> that sounds like fodder for a good wiki page, not exactly a script
<TJ-> I often spend more than 2 hours leading a user through what the script could do in 1 second
<lotuspsychje> wikihow ubuntu :p
<TJ-> Wiki is no good; the stuff I'm talking about needs informed decision making
<TJ-> wiki quickly bit-rots too
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: looks like paying version: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/tuneup/
<TJ-> I was working on apport (the crash/bug reporter) recently and thought we really need something that catches issues before they become crashes, or more widely, spots issues the user may not be aware of but ought to be fixed
<TJ-> Ha! "Disable IPv6" ... err no thanks!
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: looks like a good idea, but howto implement it
<TJ-> That must be REALLY old. it talks about JDK 7
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: The amount of intelligence we gather, and solutions, that's what I'm thinking about capturing and encoding in code
<TJ-> anyhow, really really dinner time now
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: you cant leave from us
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i've been and bought mine ;)
<Bashing-om> Admission: I generally partake at the keyboard. If I depart, just takes sooo long to get caught back up !
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: something like this? https://github.com/dennyb87/factotum
<daftykins> Bashing-om: me too :) then when i have dirty fingers (like with pizza) i sit there bouncing up and down until i wash my hands so i can type replies ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> *drool pizza*
<lotuspsychje> wow, anyone needs a new job?
<lotuspsychje> http://www.canonical.com/careers/all-vacancies
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, we all here can do this > https://ldd.tbe.taleo.net/ldd01/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=1016
<Jordan_U> TJ-: Can you think of a problem that could be fixed by such a script but where that fix couldn't simply be applied automatically in Ubuntu by default?
<OerHeks> "Technical Support Engineer - Weekend Support" grinn
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: you want easy money :p
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys, cya all tomorrow
<daftykins> odd these ones that muscle in and don't have a clue o0
<Bashing-om> Yeah. ^ Then we have to exert our mental resources watching them that they do not "miss-direct" . Oh Well .. some peoples' children .
<TJ-> Nice one Zyxel! Check WANs IPv4/IPv6 "Use as default gateway" and it ... doesn't. Uncheck it... it does!
<Bashing-om> TJ-: I had taken note that you had some networking issue . Great you are on the path to resolution . even though it is not intuitive .
<TJ-> LOL yeah you could say that. Been perfect for years, router seemed to reset its config overnight, and now it it simply changed network settings at 21:43 without a reboot or any indication; couldn't figure out why IRC had gone so quiet :D
<daftykins> TJ-: oh you must've visited the 'backwards day' web admin
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> LOL ... I reckon I should have stayed in bed today!
<TJ-> started off badly, just kept on getting worse :)
<daftykins> oh i meant opposite, no wonder that sounded wrong
<daftykins> i'm forgetting english! D:
<TJ-> did headphone sound person sort themselves out
<daftykins> uuh no came back and asked what to file against
<TJ-> !info libavcodec56
<ubot5> libavcodec56 (source: libav): Libav codec library. In component universe, is optional. Version 6:11.2-1 (vivid), package size 4648 kB, installed size 16133 kB
<daftykins>  < gnarlin> alright, more data. speaker-test did nothing. I played some music (no sound) went to the sound
<daftykins>                  settings and selected headphones manually. Should I file this bug under alsa or pulseaudio?
<TJ-> !info libavcodec56 wily
<ubot5> Package libavcodec56 does not exist in wily
<TJ-> !info libavcodec57 wily
<ubot5> Package libavcodec57 does not exist in wily
<TJ-> !info libavcodec58 wily
<ubot5> Package libavcodec58 does not exist in wily
<TJ-> Hmmm!
<daftykins> it's hiding!
<daftykins> that MSI guy is going to reinstall 14.04.3 tomorrow, but i don't know how well the 3.19 kernel will be on skylake
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Have you had your appple pie today ? A slice-a-day keeps the blues away . Some avow does better than chocolate chip cookies .. NOT proven !
<TJ-> For breakfast :)
<daftykins> i'd like to conduct some testing on the above? to spare you all the bother...
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Beats me then, what could possinly go wrong with the day at such a good start . // ^^ daftykins appreciation for chocolate chip cookies, maybe makes for a prime tester ?
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> I think we should launch the ACPI-OS distro!
<daftykins> i think i'll grab another mince pie and my book
<daftykins> TJ-: sounds good :>
<daftykins> i was going to suggest that guy try the usual acpi_backlight=vendor thing but i sense that might be useless this time?
<TJ-> possibly that wouls work to correct things at boot-time
<TJ-> I've seen a few of those systems that correctly re-init ACPI on resume, but not on a cold power boot
<Bashing-om> ACPI, I just kick back and watch . It hurts slamming fingers in some one else's door .
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-04
<wileee> user is not new and knows support limits here
<OerHeks> :-)
<Bashing-om> Had all I can stand, can't stands no more. Gnight .
<TJ-> Morning
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<TJ-> Heya
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: hi mate
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: did the acpi guy solve his issue?
<TJ-> I don't know :)
<lotuspsychje> ok
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<TJ-> afternoon/morning/evening/gnight!
<BluesKaj> 'Morning TJ-
<lotus|xenial> good afternoon from xenial
<TJ-> hiay Mr XXx
<lotus|xenial> lol
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: my linksys wifi card has dissapeared from system, and its plugged in
<lotus|xenial> hey pauljw
<pauljw> :)
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: how is it connected? Which bus?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: pci
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: does "lspci -nn" show it?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: no, http://paste.ubuntu.com/13101733/
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: and it worked on trusty fine
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: could this be a kernel thing?
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: looks like there might be a PCI bus windows issue. can you "dmesg | pastebinit"
<lotus|xenial> ive tested 2 different pci slots
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: this is the same motherboard as had Trusty on?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13101755/
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: yes
<TJ-> [    0.100479] acpi PNP0A03:00: fail to add MMCONFIG information, can't access extended PCI configuration space under this bridge.
<lotuspsychje_> system freeze lol
<TJ-> [    0.100479] acpi PNP0A03:00: fail to add MMCONFIG information, can't access extended PCI configuration space under this bridge.
<lotuspsychje_> TJ-: should i bug it?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje_: try adding to the kernel command-line: "pci=nocrs"
<lotuspsychje_> ok
<lotuspsychje_> ok brb reboot
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: no luck
<lotus|xenial> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="pci=nocrs"
<lotus|xenial> 2.171409] ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [ALKA] BIOS reported IRQ 0, using IRQ 20
<lotus|xenial> [    2.175241] ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [ALKA] enabled at IRQ 20
<lotus|xenial> weird stuff
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: OK, instead of that try "pci=realloc"
<lotus|xenial> ok holdon
<lotus|xenial> reboot :p
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: nothing
<lotus|xenial> ok gonna test trusty live to compare
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: grab the dmesg and lspci -nn
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13101969/
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13101978/
<TJ-> haha I meant from Trusty!
<lotus|xenial> ah kk lol
<lotus|xenial> in a bit
<TJ-> if it was upgraded to xenial, rather than a fresh install, there should be an older backup dmesg.X.log* from the previous version with the info in
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: yeah upgraded from 15.10
<TJ-> do an "ls -latr /var/log/dmesg* and pick one with a date that would have been the previous release
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: only 1 dmesg log around
<TJ-> drat
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: not sure it worked on 15.10 either so
<lotus|xenial> ill test out trusty lspci first
<OerHeks> yay .. Ubuntu Software Centre To Be Replaced in 16.04
<TJ-> grief! some people :)
<OerHeks> Oh, you are fond of USC ?
<TJ-> Eh? No - I was commenting on pikapi managing to destroy Ubuntu 3 times a day apparently
<OerHeks> oh, reinstalling windows would take a day or more :-D
<lotuspsychje> good evening guys
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: trusty didnt see the wifi card either, so i played around with bios and just cant find it
<lotuspsychje> minimal defaults,optimized,all pci settings,...
<lotuspsychje> tomorrow ill try cmos reset
<TJ-> did it work ?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: nop
<TJ-> has it been dislodged in the PCI slot slightly?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: cant find what happened
<TJ-> worth reseating it
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: tryed both slot, but ill try again tomorrow also
<TJ-> oh yeah, you did say, sorry... very tired here
<lotuspsychje> no sweat mate
<lotuspsychje> good evening wileee
<wileee> howdee pardner, heh
<wileee> from the really really "west" coast
<lotuspsychje> :p
<TJ-> There's some great upstream work for a centralised UEFI firmware update service
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-on-other-phones-would-be-a-mistake-right-now-says-mark-shuttleworth-495724.shtml
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/11/04/another-wave-of-hacking-in-china-this-time-with-techcrunch/
<lotuspsychje> good evening OerHeks
<OerHeks> hi lotus :-)
<lotuspsychje> !ping | wileee
<ubot5> wileee: pong!
<OerHeks> !pang
<lotuspsychje> lol
<wileee> twang yee all
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje gets his snappy translator drone
<wileee> missed talked like a pirate, I proclaim this talk like a country western stereotype daze
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> taking a break from raking leaves ... a beautiful day here , sunny and 20C
<lotuspsychje> nice!
<TJ-> mmmm, leaf mulch
<lotuspsychje> good for the dogs to run in
<TJ-> nooooo! leaf mulch is wonderful stuff; give it a year or 2 to rot down
<BluesKaj> too much for mulch here, send then to my friend's farm for landfill
<lotuspsychje> proteins for the ground
<BluesKaj> ok , the rake awaits ..bbiab
<wileee> good aerobics
<wileee> for you and the ground
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<daftykins> i can only imagine these folk keep closing the program offering the update when the times come...
<Bashing-om> point and click, point and click, never see else - duhhh .. what is a terminal ?
<OerHeks> yes, like now on 15.04
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> still havent updated yet.
<Bashing-om> 15.04 -> 15.10; My plan next month, when the load on the servers is lessened . But my main squeeze is 14.04 !
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> seems we've got the "can't read" convention in town today
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Has the greater patience than I .. " read the instructions, and then we discuss" is a general mind frame for me .
<wileee> this user always has these issues been coming here for awhile
<daftykins> i dunno about that ;) i want to murder them both
<wileee> heh called a troll
<wileee> is the one I meant
<Bashing-om> What gets me is people looking this gift horse in the mouth - and not making any contributions .
<daftykins> yeah ablest is an idiot
<wileee> I think we get really young people maybe hard tp say
<daftykins> definitely, you can spot the teens and kids a mile away usually
<wileee> yeah
<daftykins> "omg omg help me"
<wileee> lol lol lol
<wileee> by them
<Ben64> ablest1980 = 35 years old?
<daftykins> let's hope not ;)
<wileee> ;)
<daftykins> oh great now Twirl is back too
<Ben64> like me, ben64 = ben1964 = 51
<Bashing-om> If they are willing to learn, we can help . " Buy a man a fish" kinda thing . Else, enablement to cause destruction .
<Ben64> although thats not correct at all
<Ben64> tgm4883 = -2868 years old = time traveler
<OerHeks> never gets older
<daftykins> Ben64: hmm i had you pegged for closer to me :P
<wileee> 51 here, just practicing 'get off my lawn' on occasion as of now
<Ben64> i wasn't born in 64, but i've had many people ask me that with this nick
<Ben64> its actually for the n64
<Ben64> which probably gives you a better idea of my age
<daftykins> samthewildone = troll?
<daftykins> :)
<OerHeks> n64 - 1996â2003
<Ben64> rip :(
<OerHeks> zx-81 5 March 1981 - 1984
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-05
<daftykins> oh great kadiro is in now :P
<Bashing-om> Hummm .. I did not know this was a Friday .
<daftykins> :D
<Ben64> really, he wanted to argue about root, i  just said "you shouldn't"
<Ben64> i'm done with it though
<daftykins> those stubborn users really are frustrating
<daftykins> hey guys i just got 97% on the Introduction to Linux course on edx.org ! :D
<Ben64> it was like step 1 in the diagnostic process and he couldn't understand what i was trying to say
<Ben64> i don't get paid enough here to deal with that :D
<Ben64> 97 sounds good
<daftykins> i dropped one question about shell scripting because i've never done it - and didn't even cover the whole course material ;)
<chaos7theory> Is there any indication of how exactly big all the packages under texlive-full takes up?
<wafflejock> Ben64: I ended up PMing with The_Yeti, he calmed down, guess what he shouldn't have been running it as root :) I told him you're a very helpful guy and he shouldn't be so dismissive he was just already angry to start, but cooled down once we chatted for a minute and I explained why we don't just tell everyone to install PPAs and run as root if they want
<Ben64> cool
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: heya :) thanks for the backup!
<daftykins> angry little fellow there
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: didnt that akik guy came for issues days ago
<daftykins> hmm not sure
<lotuspsychje> ive seen him before
<daftykins> *adds to ignore*
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: we need to break in and add this chan to Eric's computer again ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: i try hard to get em to add to favs, but some are very hard stubborn
<lotuspsychje> ioria, monkeydust,eric
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: morning mate
<cfhowlett> greetings.  it's grey, wet, gloomy and 1700 hours here in BJ.  :)
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> crikey
<daftykins> much the same as over here at 9am!
<lotuspsychje> rainy and 10h here
<cfhowlett> cool story:  I saw ubuntu in the wild yesterday!  Chinese guy at starbucks was using it.
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: on what device
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: did you see the hackatton ubuntu insights?
<cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, nope.  link?
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/11/04/another-wave-of-hacking-in-china-this-time-with-techcrunch/?utm_source=Facebook%2C%20Twitter%2C%20G%2B&utm_medium=Post&
<cfhowlett> ah THAT one!
<lotuspsychje> :p
<cfhowlett> damn. I had to work today, or I might have gone.  VEry close to my present location!
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: actually what is that system? branded or a custom build?
<daftykins> could be a motherboard quirk too
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: its my own build, but the wifi card has worked on trusty before
<lotuspsychje> thats what so confusing
<daftykins> are you on the vivid HWE stack on that system, so 3.19 kernel - or original 3.13?
<lotuspsychje> maybe ill cmos reset aswell
<lotuspsychje> kernel 4.2 on xenial now i believe
<daftykins> oh yeah you updated, silly me
<lotuspsychje> but tested the live trusty right after
<lotuspsychje> and card didnt show either
<daftykins> i've seen bad states get held onto until a PSU's connections have been removed from the motherboard
<lotuspsychje> i tought it was a kernel thing too at first
<lotuspsychje> ill surely try :p
<lotuspsychje> brb im too curious :p
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> good man
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: you did it mate!!!
<lotus|xenial> 00:0c.0 Network controller [0280]: IBM Device [1014:0601]
<daftykins> \o/
<lotus|xenial> doesnt show proper ralink chip, but at least it show in lcpci now :p
<daftykins> did you go for the CMOS reset too, or just the power pull?
<daftykins> yeah that's a weird name
<lotus|xenial> power pull
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: that might be early xenial stuff
<daftykins> ja
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: tnx mate :p
<daftykins> my pleasure :)
<daftykins> my hardware love is far above my ubuntu skillset
<lotus|xenial> lol
<daftykins> so tempted to upgrade to a skylake build by the way :)
<daftykins> Â£500 i figured it would be
<lotus|xenial> wow
<lotus|xenial> lets hope once my store runs, xenial rocknrolls on i7
<daftykins> i don't even think the skylake retail boxed chips come with a heatsink!
<lotus|xenial> 50mb of xenial updates
<daftykins> lotus|xenial: i'd have to get a new case to get some USB 3 ports built in if i upgrade ;) my choice is: http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=705439&pid=89
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: error in link?
<daftykins> oh drat
<daftykins> how about - http://www.ebuyer.com/312927-antec-p280-case-0-761345-82000-4
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: nice1
<lotus|xenial> ok reboot for xenial updates
<daftykins> aaaah, i love a good puzzle.
<lotus|xenial> :p
<lotuspsychje> :D
<lotus|xenial> lol my gf fooling around again
<daftykins> hi Ms.lotus! o/
<lotus|xenial> 1 min away from the netbook :p
<lotus|xenial> hehe
<lotuspsychje> lol and hello there
<lotus|xenial> lotuspsychje: be polite and say hi back!
<lotuspsychje> too late
<lotus|xenial> grrrr
<daftykins> muahahaha
<lotuspsychje> he is a one..
<lotus|xenial> lol
<daftykins> no way, us Guernsey folk use that phrase :O
<daftykins> or more specifically, "cor you're a one you, eh?"
<lotus|xenial> thats a flemish expression here aswell lol
<lotus|xenial> almost like sayin, your a weird one you
<lotuspsychje> yes you are
<lotus|xenial> ok lemme go downstairs to punish her
<lotuspsychje> bbl :p
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> TMI guys!
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: ok dinnertime, tnx for the wonderfull fix mate, ill add bug to it later
<daftykins> enjoy :)
<lotus|xenial> tnx
<daftykins> this pikapi is pissing me off :P
<daftykins> haha someone just shared this with me in another channel - so good - http://i.imgur.com/UXIXZgF.jpg
<daftykins> (safe for work)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: he's been acting like this for few days here also
<daftykins> yeah, complete troll
<daftykins> he pasted a command to advise someone with earlier, which was a direct quote from TJ on a prior day - didn't even help the situation :D
<lotuspsychje> dear lord
<daftykins> might inform the ops actually
<lotuspsychje> he will get caught eventually anyways
<daftykins> report complete!
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> being helpfull with other users quotes is bad idea
<daftykins> indeed!
<daftykins> ooh this is appropriate...
 * daftykins is listening to "You Don't Have a Clue (feat. Anneli Drecker)" by RÃ¶yksopp [Junior]
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: he starts to make mistakes :p
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> switch to legacy *facepalm*
<lotuspsychje> philipballew: hi
<daftykins> uuuugh this guy pikapi is such a troll
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: leave him be to next mistake
<lotuspsychje> he wont be able to resist im sure
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> lol chill
<lotuspsychje> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning all
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: daftykins solved my ralink card mystery, had to unplug power from mobo
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, why would that work?
<daftykins> BluesKaj: resets any persistence in the NVRAM of the mobo
<daftykins> some kinda quirk in there
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: now xenial sees it in lspci -nn with IBM chipset lol
<BluesKaj> weird
<lotuspsychje> might be little early for wifi card recognition
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: helloooooo
<lotuspsychje> add to favs mate
<lotuspsychje> we start to get crowded here
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: <pikapi> he was accusing me personally for no reason
<lotuspsychje> <pikapi> i was pissed off ;|
<lotuspsychje> <lotuspsychje> dont msg me, use #ubuntu-offtopic
<lotuspsychje> <pikapi> tell him to stop saying stupid things
<EriC^^> daftykins: i need your expertise on tv and resolution
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, well 16.04 is still mostly 15.10 so it should see the wifi chip
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: :D
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: it sees now, but as a wrong chipset
<EriC^^> daftykins: do you think a 32" tv with 1920x1080 resolution is better than a 1366x768 ?
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: can we start making bugs in this staqe?
<daftykins> EriC^^: oh definitely yeah, a proper 1080 panel is mandatory in 2015 i'd say
<daftykins> might only be able to appreciate it sat close though :)
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wich brand are you gonna choose?
<EriC^^> i read somewhere that on 32" if you're sitting a little far from it, it won't make a difference
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDustttttttttttt
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, I'm using a plasma tv as a monitor and the former works much better than the latter
<daftykins> EriC^^: depends a lot on what kind of content you'll have access to, to use on it i'd say
<EriC^^> daftykins: what about like the watching normal cable stuff on it? cause it said that it gets scaled down to 1200 or something so does it make a difference if the tv is 1366 or 1920?
<daftykins> mmm you'd have to find out what your local TV service broadcasts in
<BluesKaj> also the gpu must be able to handle the resolution, EriC^^
<daftykins> it would most likely not show up so much
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: it's for a tv no pc
<daftykins> what was that path that confirms an EFI boot? was it /sys/firmware ?
<EriC^^> /sys/firmware/efi
<daftykins> ty :)
<BluesKaj> well the tv will automatically run the resolution the signal provides
<BluesKaj> EriC^^,^
<EriC^^> so buying a 32" 1920 isn't ridiculous then?
<BluesKaj> nope
<EriC^^> yeah, that's what i read online, but i dunno about tv's and 1920 just seems better to me
<BluesKaj> it is
<daftykins> it's a lovely resolution :)
<EriC^^> ok :D
<EriC^^> thanks everyone
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: whatever you do, buy a samsung :p
<EriC^^> noo, lg man here :P
<lotuspsychje> noooooo
<MonkeyDust> hi
<EriC^^> i have an lg plasma, i love it
<lotuspsychje> please dont
<lotuspsychje> i know a guy that bought a 60" LG
<lotuspsychje> and he returned it fast to the store
<lotuspsychje> to switch for samsung
<EriC^^> you get a bad lemon here and there, happens all the time i guess
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: when you play a 1080p mkv and compare youl see big difference
<EriC^^> daftykins: do you know about lg and samsung?
<daftykins> EriC^^: ihave a samsung smart TV myself, ordereda couple for someone else recently too
<daftykins> LG's i know run WebOS for their 'smart' features but i've not really researched their TVs
<EriC^^> hmm
<daftykins> this space key is terrible XD
<EriC^^> lg cost more though
<EriC^^> they seem more elegant (?) or advanced? i dunno
<BluesKaj> larhe screens aren't always best , depends on the size of the room ,and the rule is the viewing distancew should be 2.5 to 4 times the size of the screen
<BluesKaj> large
<lotuspsychje> nothing can beat samsungs quality trust me EriC^^
<BluesKaj> 2,5 to 3 times rather
<lotuspsychje> the guy from my work played his full bluray on the LG and it lagged hard on him
<lotuspsychje> got myself a samsung UE8000 + mede8er mediaplayer with full blueray mkv's and rocknrolls
<daftykins> just don't buy too old a model or rely on the smart functions, as the manufacturers will definitely abandon them sooner than you hope :(
<BluesKaj> most likely the player was causing the lag
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: no, it was same mede8er i bought for my friend
<daftykins> i'm using Kodi on an Amazon FireTV right now :)
<daftykins> Â£50 box, plays all my full HD bluray stuff over lovely wired LAN
<BluesKaj> I just use vlc , don't own a blueray .. i use a vpn and DL them
<MonkeyDust> my desk is a mess, any quick and easy way to solve my issue?
<lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: whats going on mate?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: good afternoon
<OerHeks> Hi lotus
<OerHeks> just rebooted due to a new kernel
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: wich ubuntu
<OerHeks> 15.04
<daftykins> sudo apt-get install desk-clean && desk-clean --auto
<daftykins> :)
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: did something not worj on previous?
<BluesKaj> some of the most organized people have messy desks,  I was one of them :-)
<daftykins> does any boot wizard fancy taking over kasper's issue? i'm not experienced enough for that one - weirdly his windows 7 + ubuntu appear to be installed as legacy, but his disk is GPT and he's getting bootloader errors from windows when selecting ubuntu at boot time
<OerHeks> how did he made space for ubuntu?
<daftykins> mmm no idea
<daftykins> probably let ubiquity handle it
<daftykins> i think he's ruined it by using EasyBCD at some point
<daftykins> the disk looks like it's in some kind of EFI + legacy hybrid situation :D
<OerHeks> oh pikapi will solve it
<lotuspsychje> grrr what a frustrating troll
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13111933/ <---
<daftykins> OerHeks: lol
<daftykins> why *do* we attract these weirdos? i really don't get it.
<lotuspsychje> he's gonna make more mistakes soon i feel it :p
<OerHeks> I think we are the weirdos.
<lotuspsychje> looool
<daftykins> edx.org is still giving free chromebooks out if you sign up for a course
<daftykins> :O
<lotuspsychje> brrrr chromebook :p
<lotuspsychje> i wouldnt even touch it if it sat in my kelloggs box for free
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i'm not a huge fan of them either but it's kinda tempting ;)
<lotuspsychje> things fro free always :p
<daftykins> https://training.linuxfoundation.org/get-a-free-chromebook
<daftykins> oh they'reactually crazy money, i didn't realise it said "not" free courses :)
<lotuspsychje> 2.100$ for a course yayyyy
<daftykins> yeah XD
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: wb
<daftykins> TJ-: o/ wb!
<lotuspsychje> 37 users we have a winner!
<daftykins> hahaha
 * TJ- walks in looking like Sherlock Holmes :)
<daftykins> don't say he gets my allocation of cookies for the day...
 * lotuspsychje isnt guilty so stop looking
<TJ-> Had some plonkers fly-tipped two builders bags of rubbish at the entrance to 1 of our tracks this morning, I saw them doing it whilst I was out around the fields, but too far away! Found some names/addresses/photos in it and been trying to identify who dun it :)
<daftykins> cor, pesky scoundrels
<daftykins> TJ-: well it's been all go here too ;) pikapi is one of those bad-advice trolls
<TJ-> It's a major problem around here. Folks drive out of the city and dump their rubbish - despite there being free council-operated sites all over
<TJ-> pikapi, the 3-a-day Ubuntu kid?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> what? did he broke it already this morning?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: daftykins seen him quote you for solving an issue
<TJ-> uhoh! was it bad?
<lotuspsychje> and it wasnt even relevant
<daftykins> yeah some guy had some package issue and he typed in one of your style commands that was totally unrelated ;)
<TJ-> LOL
<daftykins> shocking it was
<TJ-> Oh, gee, it's great to be f.f.f.famous :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> all the kids want to be TJ!
<lotuspsychje> i wouldnt want pichachu fans
<lotuspsychje> loool
<TJ-> pikapi is probably our mystery fly tipper, too!
<daftykins> i wouldn't put his past him :>
<TJ-> The ways the new kids find to stalk you online!
<TJ-> I hope you put him right daftykins ... without being banned :D
<daftykins> LOL that's my personal challenge
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: he's been trolling both of us all day
<TJ-> Hmmmm!
<TJ-> Have you ever had a 'net stalker?
<lotuspsychje> not me
<daftykins> TJ-: actually i've got a guy with a really funky hybrid EFI with GPT disk arrangement right now and yet both windows + ubuntu booting in legacy mode that you might enjoy
<lotuspsychje> my ip is anonymous! 127.0.0.1!!
<TJ-> 'enjoy' isn't quite the word I'd use to describe it :)
<lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: wb
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: Oh you should get one - they're so much fun to toy with
<daftykins> TJ-: d'aww
<cfhowlett> :)
<daftykins> TJ-: he gets this on picking ubuntu - http://i.imgur.com/DCXZ4FM.jpg yet his disk looks like - http://paste.ubuntu.com/13111933/
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: by the way, daftykins solved my mystery ralink wifi card issue, had to disconnect power from mobo
<daftykins> TJ-: i've suggested he either ask a boot expert ;) or just reinstall both OSs after wiping the drive :>
<daftykins> so far he wants to wipe the drive
<TJ-> My partner Eddie and I had one about 3 years ago; was the real thing too - mystery letters, cards, packages through the mail; emails, weird sites being subscribed with Eddie's email address, people turning up at the door expecting a sex hook-up!! Had the cops involved... but we managed to entrap the perp online with a honeypot web-site and from that ID where he was and the cops got him.
<daftykins> holy moly, that's nasty
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: you mean you never COLD booted it? Aha! That's the one thing I assumed you'd done and never thought to suggest
<daftykins> not bright enoughfor a proxy eh?
<TJ-> daftykins: thank-fully, not, else it would have been difficult. It lasted about 3 months.
<daftykins> :S
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: now it has become stranger and lspci shows it as IBM chipset lol
<daftykins> :D identity-crisis wifi
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> the xerus illness
<TJ-> daftykins: re your UEFI user: autoneombr0 is the Easy BCD alternate boot-loader; that ought not to be on there,
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: really? are you sure? show me :)
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: the entire dmesg and "lspci -nn" please
<daftykins> TJ-: yeah he installed it as ubuntu didn't show up as an option apparently, i suggested that broke things
<lotuspsychje> wait lemme go upstairs holdon
 * daftykins waits for ms.lotus to jump back on lotuspsychje and type :D
<TJ-> daftykins: the problem us... the autoneombr0 is for BIOS boots, not UEFI, so the firmware starts in UEFI mode and loads the Windows EFI boot-manager, which then apparently tries to chainload MBR-style that file, which the UEFI calls don't support... well, that's my best reading of out. Anyhow, the problem is that neo'dumb' stuff
<daftykins> weird, 'cause that guys windows install claims to be legacy
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: #5: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112219/
<daftykins> i smelled a win8 -> 7 conversion leaving a GPT disk
<daftykins> anywho, it's ugly but he seems keen to do the full disk wipe and reinstall :)
<TJ-> daftykins: OK, but there's apparently an EFI SP on that disk. Did you check if it does have EFI boot files in it?
<TJ-> daftykins: /dev/sda2 fat32 boot 105MB
<daftykins> nah, i was hoping to pass it onto the resident boot expert after yourself, but he was not active at the time :(
<lotus|xenial> ah now it shows in lshw: *-network:0 UNCLAIMED
<lotus|xenial>        description: Network controller
<lotus|xenial>        product: RT2800 802.11n PCI
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: show us "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -vvnnk -s 00:0c.0 )" please
<TJ-> daftykins: did the user boot from Live USB? If so, did you confirm it booted UEFI mode? Does the PC even support UEFI?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112244/
<daftykins> TJ-: i'll see if he's still there and fancies a troubleshoot :)
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: you see the Subsystem correctly reports. The device is apparently one supplied to IBM and branded by them
<lotus|xenial> yep
<lotus|xenial> so it makes sense afterall
<MonkeyDust> i'm installing xenial too, in vmware player
<daftykins> :D
<lotus|xenial> MonkeyDust: nice1
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: mind blown that you give a guy a google link and he says it'll save him hours, he hadn't googled already *facepalm*
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: do this; it'll show you some other devices along the same lines:
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: "awk '/^[0-9A-F]{4,4}/{BRAND=$0} /1737.*006./{print BRAND, $0}' /usr/share/misc/pci.ids "
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: did that WiFi device *ever* work on Ubuntu?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: yes, we fixxed it on trusty the other day
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: but cant remember how, something with linux-firmware
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: hmmm.
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112272/
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: did you pastebin the dmesg ?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: on trusty?
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: that is weird! awk didn't work correctly for you!
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: on what is booted now
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: xenial, holdon
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: this is what I expected you to see http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112277/
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112279/
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: maybe its because its unclaimed right now?
<TJ-> No. The file awk is parsing is the text pci.ids list
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: its empty on my side
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: lol, hope it helps him
<daftykins> :)
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: the file is empty? it can't be, you got some results out of it!
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: no i man empty where it should mention emtec..
<lotus|xenial> like your file
<OerHeks> 102 is out ! multiboot with uefi http://dl.fullcirclemagazine.org/issue102_en.pdf
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: the awk command is (trying to) capture an earlier line and hold on to it in BRAND variable so that when it gets a match on the device ID it can print BRAND and current matching line, so that BRAND capture logic is probably failing because you file is using lower-case hex characters
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: Try  "awk '/^[0-9A-Fa-f]{4,4}/{BRAND=$0} /1737.*006./{print BRAND, $0}' /usr/share/misc/pci.ids "
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: still empty
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: that IS weird! maybe the file format there is different then. Can you "pastebinit <( tail -n 1000 /usr/share/misc/pci.ids )"
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13112314/
<daftykins> TJ-: looks to me like windows' boot image only; http://termbin.com/0x2p
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: weird; the file-format is OK. Must be something about how your system interpets the 'awk' script
<daftykins> so i think someone didn't clean up the EFI mess before putting legacy Windows + ubuntu on :O
<TJ-> daftykins: looks possible. might be good to get a bootrepair report on that system, unless the user is going to do a reinstall (correctly)
<daftykins> *nod*
<MonkeyDust> there, xenial installed and working...
<lotus|xenial> MonkeyDust: nice1
<TJ-> daftykins: tip, for when getting a listing from an FS/directory you expect not to have many files in its heirachy: "find /mnt -ls"
<daftykins> *nod* that makes sense :)
<daftykins> was certainly tedious my folder by folder attack
<TJ-> I used to get caught by that until I learned to love 'find' :)
<TJ-> adding in a -maxdepth X to control it is the other thing I use alot
<daftykins> is there an elegant way to use find on / whilst suppressing all the output of paths a standard user isn't permitted to view?
<daftykins> and avoid using sudo with it
<TJ-> there is the 'don't X file systems' option
<TJ-> "-xdev"
<TJ-> you could jsut do "find / 2>/dev/null" to 'loose' the warnings about permission denied I think
<daftykins> hrmm ok, ty
<MonkeyDust> excellent...
<daftykins> lol this is going to make pikapi flip out, i think his solution would have worked after all :)
<MonkeyDust> don't make him start a discussion...
<daftykins> nah i'm hiding now :D
<daftykins> it's still a mess, so i don't personally like the 'solution' of changing EFI boot to legacy
<TJ-> other way around.... Legacy to UEFI
<daftykins> ooh-err
<MonkeyDust> to geek or not to geek, that is the question
<lotus|xenial> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513477 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ralink RT2800pci doesnt work by default" [Undecided,New]
<lotus|xenial> there we go first xenial bug
<daftykins> :)
<MonkeyDust> lotus|xenial  support in #ubuntu+1
<daftykins> lol
<lotus|xenial> hehe
<lotus|xenial> i was 'discussing it'
<lotus|xenial> with myself
<daftykins> quick get your gf back on lotuspsychje :P
<lotus|xenial> she's sleeping shhhh
<BluesKaj> heh, I have a ralink rt2780 usb dongle ...wonder if it works , haven't tried it in yrs
<lotus|xenial> BluesKaj: test for me later?
<lotus|xenial> im curious :p
<BluesKaj> or is it 2870
<lotus|xenial> probably all the same mess
<lotus|xenial> im gonna bug whatever feels wrong this time
<lotus|xenial> so we have a clean nice xerus
<BluesKaj> ok, I'll set it up just for fun
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's the spirit
<lotus|xenial> : )
 * daftykins keeps dreaming about new motherboards
<daftykins> mmmm - http://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/Z170-PRO/websites/global/products/rNcl9BhUV4NzvQIk/images/mb/mb.png
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> wow
<lotus|xenial> monsta
<lotus|xenial> http://game.msi.com/product/motherboard/z87-gaming
<daftykins> has one of those M.2 PCIe v3 x4 SSD slots for a nice NVMe SSD :)
<lotus|xenial> cool
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: is this the wifi device? http://www.walmart.com/ip/Linksys-WMP600N-IEEE-802.11a-b-g-IEEE-802.11n-Draft-2.0-PCI-Wireless-Adapter-with-Dual-Band-WEP-WPA-WPA2-Personal-WPA-WPA2-Enterprise/12321719
<lotus|xenial> ready for 950
<daftykins> exactly :D
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: yes
<lotus|xenial> but i need to go to the bank right now
<TJ-> I have one here on my desk
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: running ubuntu?
<TJ-> WMP600N
<lotus|xenial> anyway bbl guys
<daftykins> o/
<TJ-> It used to be in an Ubuntu wireles router system that had 10 Ethernet interfaces and did dual-band AP using hostapd too
<daftykins> ten O_O
<TJ-> yeah, it does the job of several different devices: switch, router, gateway (had a DSL PCI modem in), AP, NAS
<TJ-> hmmm, time I cleared some outstanding projects. The pile on the workbench has now reached my corner so I have nowhere to work to test things out!
<BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, sorry, found the dongle , but the stick is missing
<daftykins> TJ-: :D well thanks for the second set of eyes as always, sorry to distract you so much ^_^
<TJ-> Trouble is, knowing where to start :s It's going to be revolving chairs :)
<TJ-> looks like kasper got lost
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's the trouble with ghosts
<TJ-> :D just found 2 untouched Windows Office XP Pro 2002 sets at the back of a shelf!
<daftykins> to ebay! you'll be laughing all the way to the bank
<TJ-> no-one would want that old stuff nowadays
<daftykins> you'd be amazed :) i have to grin and bear it when a younger lad i know is obsessing over older windows installs
<TJ-> really? it's worth the time of listing them?
<daftykins> lets have a glance
<TJ-> I've got the entire suite of Windows software and packs of licences from the Microsoft Action Pack subscription
<daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Office-Business-/3768/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=office%20xp%20pro&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
<daftykins> hehe there y'go, some going for Â£20 worth in the US!
<daftykins> those being sold listings if my link works
<TJ-> don't look like any UK sellers... which suggests there's not the same market for them here or in the EU
<daftykins> d'aww, ah well
<daftykins> i get quite heated when i see folk still claiming installing and using XP is ok =|
<TJ-> oh, there's one, with 0 bids. Thanks. I'll watch it, see if there are any takers
<daftykins> hurrah :D
<TJ-> XP is fine for air-gapped PCs; running machinery control software often requires XP; anything later has problems
<TJ-> That's one reason I keep the licences and install disks; never know when I may need to run up some legacy installation for recovery or analysis. I have NT 4.0 install disks still
<daftykins> :) these are folk installing them on laptops they use online though
<daftykins> they keep pushing the registry tweak that makes a system pretend it's XP point of sale / embedded edition, so supported longer
<cfhowlett> I beg to differ.  I see WAY too many Chinese machines still running XP
<cfhowlett> including POS devices
<daftykins> mmm supposed to be a big problem over there
<daftykins> and that's POS for both meanings of the initialism ;)
<cfhowlett> indeed!
<cfhowlett> strangely enough, I have yet to see ubuntu-kylin in use.
<TJ-> Nothing wrong with XP; It's how it is used. In all the time I used it, never once was compromised, and never installed A/V either.
<daftykins> yeah, same here
<daftykins> it was great for the time, i was just glad when it got murdered :)
<daftykins> those lengthy installs were etched in my mind :)
<TJ-> I'm going to need to convert the Calf Shed into a workshop! Far too many components and bits!
<daftykins> but that's a lot of moo-ving
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> LOL
<TJ-> don't tell me - you'll be here all week?
<daftykins> i'd love to but i think i will head to bed shortly :>
<TJ-> Is it sleepy time already?
<daftykins> yeah, i didn't sleep last night
<daftykins> up to my usual tricks ;)
<TJ-> Awwww, I know how it feels. I had the same the night before, but slept for about 11 hours last night
<TJ-> I can see the workbench now - time for the Dyson!
<MonkeyDust> xfce is very 'likable', wasnt aware...
<daftykins> yeah ifind it quite comfy :)
<daftykins> blast this membrane keyboard's overused space bar :D
<TJ-> :)
<MonkeyDust> using it for my xenial vm
<TJ-> Yes, I like lxfe/lubuntu too. Nice and simple
<daftykins> ok i'm gonna head off, laters everyone \o
<TJ-> g'night
<pauljw> hey lotuspsychje  :)
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> hi pauljw
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-lts-with-unity-7-to-support-snappy-packages-495769.shtml
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-lts-to-drop-ubuntu-software-center-for-gnome-software-495760.shtml
<lotuspsychje> xenial news
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-16-04-drops-brasero-and-empathy-gnome-calendar-to-be-adopted-495782.shtml
<pauljw> saw that as well the redhat issue...
<lotuspsychje> finally a software center alternative
<pauljw> i tend to use synaptic myself
<lotuspsychje> terminal here
<pauljw> :) been known to do that too, just not always.
<pauljw> i still struggle with all the gazzillions of commands in the terminal that i can't remember...  :D
<lotuspsychje> pauljw: yeah there's so many to remember :p
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I'm trying to get an old mobo to boot with that WMP600N so I can let you know what linux reports
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: cool! tnx mate
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i got a reply from a dev already
<TJ-> currently the mobo is refusing to boot from any USB!
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: he suggest mainline kernel 4.3
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: try 'plop boot manager' to force the usb's, its a nice cdrom to have :p
<TJ-> I have, it's not helped so far. Weirdly, I have booted this mobo with this USB diagnostic kit before
<TJ-> anyhow, going to dinner now. I'll tackle it later.
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit
<pauljw> biab
<lotuspsychje> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Various-16.04-LTS-Updates
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/11/the-ubuntu-software-centre-is-being-replace-in-16-04-lts
<lotuspsychje> its all over the news :p
<lotuspsychje> nite nite
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-06
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: did you see canonical jobs?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://www.canonical.com/careers
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> yeah i saw it a while ago
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: nice nice :p
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/new-usb-startup-creator-is-being-made-for-ubuntu-16-04-lts-495794.shtml
<lotuspsychje> bbl have a nice day
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<lotuspsychje> hi popey
<popey> hi
<lotus|xenial> good afternoon to all
<lotus|xenial> cfhowlett: hello mate
<cfhowlett> hey ^3
<lotus|xenial> its trolls days again grr
<lotus|xenial> tnx cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> np
<lotus|xenial> i dont like ignore cfhowlett , wanna know whats going on
<cfhowlett> understood
<lotus|xenial> this guy needs a ban
<lotus|xenial> cfhowlett: daftykins saw him quoting TJ to help a user, and it wasnt even relevant
<cfhowlett> I'm already done.  he's /ignored.
<lotus|xenial> lol :p
<lotus|xenial> bbl
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<MonkeyDust> yes
<Pici> yep
<TJ-> cfhowlett: are you into electronics (components) ?
<cfhowlett> not so much.  Y
<TJ-> just been trying to get hold of an LDO transistor, '662K' 3.3V, 0.5A, SOT-23, and it seems like the only suppliers for small quantities is China :)
<cfhowlett> I'm up the street from the electronics bazaar ...
<cfhowlett> might be able to help
<TJ-> I have an IDE SSD (Disk-On-Module) that has blown its voltage regulator
<cfhowlett> speak ENGLISH dern it!  :)  so what do you need?  details are good, here ...
<TJ-> I'm trying to find a compatible component at Farnell, but so far not doing too well
<TJ-> Let me find a reference page so you get the idea :)
<cfhowlett> brilliant!
<MonkeyDust> excellent... release the hounds...
<cfhowlett> lol!  right, right!
<TJ-> oh! Farnell have one. The original partial part details I had were incorrect
<TJ-> http://uk.farnell.com/torex/xc6206p332mr/ic-pos-volt-reg-0-25a-3-3v-sot23/dp/8796980
<TJ-> I'm sorted, I think.
<cfhowlett> and now I know what the heck a Farnell is ...
<TJ-> this thing is about 3mm x 2mm :)
<lordievader> An IDE SSD? Isn't IDE to slow for that?
<TJ-> They're common in Industrial equipment; the device plugs directly onto the mobo IDE socket
<lordievader> Fancy.
<TJ-> they avoid the power/size/weght/fragility of spinning disks
<lordievader> Can't they do that with sata too?
<TJ-> Yes, there are SATA versions. But these have been around for IDE systems since the 1990s
 * BluesKaj assumes the capacities are quite low
<TJ-> from <1GB to 256GB
<TJ-> generally used for mostly-read-only OS installs
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> my second xenial bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/1513801
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513801 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "Scrambled screen and mouse pointer on first boot" [Undecided,New]
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: You'd never believe I've not yet managed to boot that mobo with the WMP600N in!
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: dont sweat mate tyt
<TJ-> I'm not, but the mobo is supposed to boot! It refuses to USB boot, somehow it blew a PCB trace and transistor on an IDE Disk-On-Module SSD, it's own NIC only does Novell Netware boot services! ... Grrr!
<lotuspsychje> hmmm
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: what mobo brand is that?
<lotuspsychje> that pikakuu guy has been a troll again today grrr
<lotuspsychje> he plays the game smart, and reverses things to us
<TJ-> Mercury Kobian PVCLE266M I think it is - has a Via C3 CPU on
<TJ-> really? I must have missed that
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah it was this morning before you joined
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: told me not abuse the bot, after someone sweared in the channel
<TJ-> LOL I detect some 'aspergers' hints in that character :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> he will make a mistake soon, and ill grab him
<OerHeks> I'll ignore him and some other trolls. there has been a wave of trolls lately
<OerHeks> ( and you'll find them making jokes in #u-o )
<lotuspsychje> yeah indeed, but the problem is OerHeks if you ignore, other users have a trolls mess by them
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: and that guy provides wrong info to users aswell
<OerHeks> just type: please ignore *
<TJ-> pleas ignore everyone :D
<OerHeks> that will drive him mad, and warns the other users
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> I think pikapi is trying to be helpful but not aware of being too eager, and not always knowing the correct safe steps. Maybe just needs some friendly advice
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: hmm you can try it lol
<lotuspsychje> good luck
<lotuspsychje> :p
<OerHeks> TJ-, he surely is trolling, does not know the basics, but know too much about unusual requests.
<TJ-> that's why I sense aspergers hints
<lotuspsychje> hahaha
<lotuspsychje> mental irc
<TJ-> focus on narrow areas with amazing ability but something slightly different throws them out
<OerHeks> well, good luck to you, fine helpers, nearly weekend.
<lotuspsychje> yeah but 'catching' us back is a nasty trick
<lotuspsychje> he tryed to prove daftykin1 wrong aswell
<lotuspsychje> anyway..
<lotuspsychje> we gonna have a new startup disk cretaor yayyyy
<lotuspsychje> creator
<TJ-> yeah, it's called 'dd'
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> I don't know what the entire issue with those tools is. why not just write the image plain and simple rather than messing about with an intermediate boot-loader
<lotuspsychje> its gui and nice for the masses
<TJ-> No argument about GUI ... but why not just 'choose ISO', 'choose target', 'write'
<TJ-> as in, no trying to insert an additional boot-manager in between the firmware and the ISO contents, since the ISO is hybrid bootable anyhow
<lotuspsychje> true
<TJ-> I think those tools have been used by mistake; they're for creating truly multiboot installations with several installers on the same device, which isn't the common use case for most users
<lotuspsychje> i like that multisystem tool
<TJ-> The GUI should be the file manager. Drag the ISO image onto the USB device image and done!
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: that would be nice
<TJ-> It's standard drag-n-drop behaviour after all. It would just need to ask for elevated permissions
<TJ-> If software-center can do that, so can the file manager
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: its gonne be gnome software now :p
<TJ-> Not here it isn't!
<lotuspsychje> looool
<lotuspsychje> xenial kubuntu ?
<TJ-> there seems to be some strange, unannounced, alliance with Canonical and Gnome
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: we had gnome by default on early ubuntu's right
<TJ-> I was in the UOS UEFI boot session, and there were 3 guys there from RedHat/Gnome and all the talk was about how Gnome tooling will handle UEFI Capsule updatse
<TJ-> Gnome is the back-end of Unity too, but not the Gnome Desktop
<lotuspsychje> right
<TJ-> I think the reason is Canonical has discovered the costs of going it alone on the desktop 'experience'
<lotuspsychje> there's a lot going on these days
<lotuspsychje> big business
<TJ-> interesting though, I can't see how focusing on Gnome works with the Snappy/App infrastructure which is all QT (which is the underpinning of KDE). Gnome has gtk/gdk
<TJ-> the whole point of these airy fairy 'apps' is they are effectively HTML5/CSS QT QML definitions
<TJ-> and that's what the phones have, so if everything is 'converging' on that, not sure how Gnome fits in
<lotuspsychje> snappy and phones wanna enter the scene
<TJ-> I found the summit sessions covering it were hard to follow the logic
<lotuspsychje> and the big cloud business of canonical
<TJ-> right, which has nothing whatsoever in common with 'convergence' !
<lotuspsychje> think we gonna see weird things in the future
<lotuspsychje> and a lot of solving :p
<TJ-> there was a discussion about this amongst the core devs the other day; the aim to have a single installer image... and the cloud folks were complaining bitterly that there was no way they wanted all the same stuff on as phones/desktop need.
<TJ-> They were asking what is wrong with 'ubuntu-minimal', that is already supposed to be the common base
<lotuspsychje> the more characters on the play, the more arguments will rise
<TJ-> there was some bad tempered falling out and silence descended.
<lotuspsychje> can imagine
<TJ-> basically the 'suits' are saying 'we must have convergence and a single pretty Ubuntu image'
<lotuspsychje> what happened to opensource thinking there
<lotuspsychje> isnt the community supose to brainstorm along?
<TJ-> It rather feels to me like Canonical is being prepared to be partially sold; possible public listing in the pipeline maybe
<lotuspsychje> i never liked the amazon stuff
<TJ-> supposed to - but that kind of stuff disappeared into Canonical years ago. "Community" is only a veneer now... if you don't agree you can go - see what happened to  Jonathan Riddel, founder of Kubuntu. Frozen out and 'told' to resign from the Kubuntu Community Council.
<lotuspsychje> who knows what else we gonna see
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<TJ-> I think its time I had a nap; I've worn my eyes out today staring at SMD components on PCBs
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> cant you try that plop cd
<lotuspsychje> or cant you get a cdrom working on it neither
<TJ-> there's no CD on that mobo, and it has previously booted from the same USB device, which is the annoying part
<lotuspsychje> cmos clear and battery out?
<lotuspsychje> anyway, after a good night sleep, is the best time to solve hardware issues
<lotuspsychje> (or under the shower, my gf says)
<TJ-> yes, tried it under the shower :D
<TJ-> and I slept with the battery out
<MonkeyDust> yes but no
<fossterer> Hi! I've been using 15.10 daily builds so far. Now that 16.04 daily-builds are getting ready, is there a way for me to move to 16.04?
<BluesKaj> fossterer, update and upgrade to make sure you have the latest packages , then sudo do release-upgrade -d , if you want to upgrade over the net or do a clean install of one of these images, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/current/
<BluesKaj> use this site if you're using ubuntu http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<BluesKaj> fossterer,^
<fossterer> BluesKaj: Thanks, I'm already running 15.10 daily-build isntalled. Can use 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade an installed 'daily-build' (to 16.04)?
<fossterer> Did you ever use a daily-build?
<BluesKaj> yes, I've used both , don't forget to use  -d at the end of the do-release, its 'd for development
<fossterer> Great! Thanks for responding, BluesKaj!
<BluesKaj> the daily build is great for a clean install if you have separate / and /home partitions in particular
<fossterer> Yeah.. I have /home separately.. I use the same for LTS and daily-build installs
<BluesKaj> cool
<BluesKaj> yeah , i still have 14.04 on a separate partition as my stable backup OS
<fossterer> cool... Do you do any active testing on daily-builds?
<BluesKaj> yes this is a daily that I'm testing atm, altho I haven't seen many problems so far with 16.04, it's still basically 15.10 underneath
<BluesKaj> but I'm a KDE guy, the ubuntu 16.04 testers are reporting basically the same experience
<fossterer> Can I see any of the bugs you worked on/reported earlier? I started using 15.10 daily builds with the aim of participating in bug-squashing stuff
<BluesKaj> I  rarely report bugs anymore because most of the time they're dupes, already reported
<OerHeks> I do, when they need confirmation
<fossterer> Can I see a sample?
<BluesKaj> ok , gotta go for a few mins .... paper mail etc
<BluesKaj> check launchpad
<fossterer> ~kaj, is that you?
<BluesKaj> yup
<fossterer> cool.. Thanks
<MonkeyDust> a 16.04 xfce bug i noticed, unable to login with the guest account
<OerHeks> Delay release !
<OerHeks> :-D
<MonkeyDust> critical error
<OerHeks> MonkeyDust :-D
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<OerHeks> hey paul
<TJ-> grrr, found another vulnerable BIOS flash tool. AMI again. Surpised - not.
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-07
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Are you covered up ? got time to look into Bilge not able to start the GUI in 15.10 ? got over my experience level .
<TJ-> I'll dive in. Looks like the failsafe kicked in an renamed the broken xorg.conf
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Thanks .. also http://paste.ubuntu.com/13132993/ .. Do I read right that the Nvidia card can not find a display port ? all attempts are "disconnected " .
<TJ-> Bashing-om: This is an Intel/Nvidia Optimus?
<Bashing-om> TJ-: affirmed as optimus per the xorg log file .. OP does not know .
<TJ-> I wonder if this is one of those MUXless systems - where the nvidia GPU doesn't get to control the outputs, it has to render into shared memory for the Intel to do the framebuffer scanout
<Bashing-om> TJ-: I had not even considered that ! muxless .
<TJ-> Do you have any nvidia driver installed there; I want to point you to a help file
<Bashing-om> TJ-: No .. no longer have any system with Nvidia cards .
<TJ-> Hang on then, let me find it online
<TJ-> OK, read this: http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/352.30/README/optimus.html
<TJ-> Re: "Muxless" the sentence "On systems without a mux, the NVIDIA GPU can still be useful for offscreen rendering, running CUDA applications, and other uses that don't require driving a display." seems applicable
<Bashing-om> TJ-: (that is subject to change) I have a box I want to build for a media center, if the other half will go along with it -money thing .
<Bashing-om> reading
<TJ-> I think the appropriate link there is "see Chapter 32, Offloading Graphics Display with RandR 1.4." to http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/352.30/README/randr14.html
<TJ-> Chapter 32 seems to suggest that special xorg.conf is the solution to enable offloading, but there may be some additional firmware configuration for the video to be done
<Bashing-om> TJ-: The above might explain the setting ( I had the OP change) " Driver "modesetting". and also why the system over-writes the changed config file ??
<TJ-> Yes, it looks like it detects the bad xorg.conf broke things, renames it out the way, and creates a default config. I have the same thing happen with my 6-monitor config if the external GPU adapter isn't connected
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Regressing a bit; so the output of ' /usr/bin/prime-supported ' being "yes" .... we have a problem ?
<TJ-> If this will solve these MUXless issues, we can use it as the blueprint from now on to quickly fix these darn things
<TJ-> the /var/log/prime-supported.log had "Requires offloading: yes"
<Bashing-om> TJ-: We started messing with this yesterday . I have made 0 progress with it to this time .
<TJ-> so I think we can infer from that this is MUXless and has to offload rendering to the Nvidia GPU
<TJ-> This is the first time I've found/seen a sensible simple solution for MUXless - I usually ignore/walk away from Optimus :)
<Bashing-om> TJ-: My 1st also with a optimus system that is MUX-less . I am again in a learning mode . thanks .
<TJ-> This seems to be key, from that Chapter 32:
<TJ-> command to query the capabilities of the graphics devices. If the system requirements are met and the X server is configured correctly, there should be a provider named NVIDIA-0 with the Source Output capability and one named modesetting with the Sink Output capability. If either provider is missing or doesn't have the expected capability, check your system configuration
<TJ-> $ xrandr --listproviders
<pauljw> gnite all
<TJ-> I think we may be there! I suspect Bilge only needs to sort out Unity issues in the profile
<Bashing-om> TJ-: I will be much relieved if that is so .
<TJ-> Hmmm, I had thought there was no log-in at all, but it sounds like there's just a Unity rendering issue, which might be down to a config issue, and clues may be in ~/.xsession-errors
<TJ-> Are you OK to pick back up on the Unity config issues? I've not used it in years!
<Bashing-om> TJ-: I too could muddle through it . But I do not have access to a running unity desktop. and looks like you are still teaching . sure is nice that Bilge is so willing to co-operate and follow instructions !
<TJ-> I'm *sure* monitors.xml has been the issue before; I wonder if it is no longer present on 15.10
<Bashing-om> Maybe ~/.config/monitors.xml . Still looking .
<TJ-> I think this is going to be a gsettings difference
<Bashing-om> TJ-: there is also these config files for unity : ~/.config/dconf and ~/.config/compiz-1 and ~/.dmrc .
<TJ-> Right. We only moved .config/ so something in there triggered it to work. I'd love to know what it is!
<TJ-> One down :)
<TJ-> I'll look at the .config zip Bilge has sent tomorrow when I'm more awake
<Bashing-om> TJ-: UH, huh on the down .. I would never have figgured it out .. was chasing my tail . thanks heaps .
<TJ-> You're welcome. I think part of the issue was the user's description of the issue. I originally thought it was failing to log-in, but it turned out to be 'no workspace/desktop'
 * daftykins yawns
<TJ-> fed up on the bonfire toffee?
<daftykins> what on earth is that? :D
<daftykins> heh US lass i know was asking me why there were fireworks here
<TJ-> I managed to burn out a disk-on-module SSD yesterday
<TJ-> first a PCB trace from the +5ve input to pin 20 on the PATA-IDE header then realised the LDO voltage regulator was taken out, too! I had managed to connect the device 1 pin column to the right! It would have been fine BUT that pin 20 - which is supposed to be blank, and used as a keyway, was on this device connected to that external 5V input, so when I connected it incorrectly I managed to connect the
<TJ-> 5V external input to ground!
<TJ-> bonfire toffee: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonfire_toffee
<daftykins> ouch!
<daftykins> good ol' bodhi.
<TJ-> Wasn't it one of those Thinkpad Edge models where the boot-loader EFI file had to be marked as 'trusted' before it would boot from it? I wonder if that also affects the simple media path boot-loader /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI - be a right pain if it does
<daftykins> yeah i vaguely remember hearing that the other day
<daftykins> no idea how you sorted that mind you
<TJ-> The user passed on some photos of the firmware setup screens. Look at the 3rd photo down: http://imgur.com/a/aj108
<TJ-> "Select an UEFI file as trusted for executing:" - Secure Boot Mode *must* be enable to use that. When it is selected a file-chooser is shown and you can browser the EFI-SP to choose and select the file. Once it is marked trusted like that, Secure Boot can be disabled again - but it MUST be trusted whether SB is enabled or not
<TJ-> Security Tab, InsydeH2O Firmware
<daftykins> haha guy was watching football in the background
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> :D
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: o/ ,,, It is that time already ? Time flys when having fun .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: hey mate, had a good support night?
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Made it a good one .
<daftykins> i think lotus wakes up far too early
<lotuspsychje> yep lol
<lotuspsychje> 4h57 here
<lotuspsychje> my pizza was dancinf around my stomac
<lotuspsychje> im trying to drown it with coffee now
<daftykins> :D
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: did pikachu come back?
<TJ-> Glass of cold mik settles pizza
<Bashing-om> that what pizza does ! lol
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: oh i thought that was to settle LSD :p
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: haha, i'm not sure - not seen any evidence but then i've been offline a lot of today
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: i saw him yesterday morning and told me not to abuse the bot after !language to a stfu user lol
<daftykins> ugh, definitely our latest fan then
<lotuspsychje> ill be waiting for his mistake :p
<lotuspsychje> lets c whats new in ubuntu news land
<TJ-> We've never seen this 'deitarion' before that I can tell, but the character is rather like pikapi
<daftykins> i'm not sure pikapi has as much of a clue :)
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: TJ- is convices he has asperger :p
<daftykins> i think 90% of freenode is
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/10/29/the-ubuntu-online-summit-starts-next-week/
<TJ-> right, deitarion is http://blog.ssokolow.com/
<TJ-> what's the haha for?
 * lotuspsychje crawls back in his mental cell
<TJ-> Are you going back to the future, or forward to the past? :D
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> I might surprise the dogs and take them out now, before the rain arrives.
<daftykins> awoooo
<daftykins> :>
<TJ-> rain is due to start within the hour and go all day, so i'll go now :)
<lotuspsychje> #ubuntu-uos-plenary this is where to summit guys hangout/chat
<TJ-> and ...-uos-core
<TJ-> and -uos
<Bashing-om> Relieve is here, I going horizonal for the spell. Good night.
<lordievader> Good morning.
<cfhowlett> any ops?? please come drop a ban hammer on xenu-lives
<lordievader> cfhowlett: There is a factoid which pings all ops.
<cfhowlett> lordievader, got it.  wasn't sure any were in play.  thanks, it's been dealt with.
<lordievader> Ok, good :)
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lordievader> o/
<EriC^^> TJ-: man these awkward uefi stuff
<EriC^^> just yesterday you were mentioning uefi that have to be "trusted" even with secureboot off and this guy comes in today and his uefi has it
<EriC^^> so when the bios didn't like anything i remembered what you said and asked him to check and he had the trust thingy
<EriC^^> but it still wont work right, it's been trusted but he keeps getting a boot menu before grub each time :/
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> TJ- has a knack for that, he told me about the ACPI OSI thing just the day before someone came in needing it too :D
<EriC^^> yeah it's funny
<daftykins> is it a Lenovo too? any BIOS updates available maybe?
<EriC^^> acer aspire
<daftykins> ah, blargh
<daftykins> if i remember the acers were the first to want a supervisor password added before they'd give up other options, too
<EriC^^> :/
<daftykins> ah yeah E11, that's the model range i keep hearing about UEFI issues with
<EriC^^> i'm going to get some beer
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> that guy bodhi yesterday would enjoy seeing these setups that don't work with secure boot being on, despite what he kept saying ;)
<TJ-> Sorry... was miles away reading!
<daftykins> you're forgiven ;)
<TJ-> EriC^^: which file(s) were trusted? the UEFI install often installs shimx64.efi as well as grubx64.efi. I seem to recall I may have recommended the user mark all /EFI/ubuntu/*.efi files trusted.
<daftykins> acer seem to be performing very badly, in a financial sense - so they might not be long for this world
<TJ-> EriC^^: Although with my programming hat on, I'd expect only the file that is listed in the Ubuntu boot menu entry would need to be 'trusted'. On the other hand, as that file will call into the UEFI API to load other files, it might actually make sense
<TJ-> They seem to be extremely tied to Microsoft Windows with no concern for interoperability.
<daftykins> could be a money/deal thing
<TJ-> Strange, seeing as their R&D people must have a lot of experience/knowledge of Linux due to the eee series
<daftykins> but then have we seen this trusted file thing on anything beyond acer yet?
<daftykins> nah Eee's were Asus
<TJ-> I doubt it; MS has got past the point of needing to throw marketing $$$ backhander/rebates at manufacturers
<TJ-> Oh, they were!
<TJ-> Ha, I knew it started with A :D
<daftykins> although acer probably had Linux based netbooks at some point, too
<daftykins> hehe yeah i often read the other when i see one
<TJ-> It's like Asustek ... is that Asus or some other company, and then there's the ASrock ... always get confused
<TJ-> Oh, would you like some pro-tips about IPv6 firewalling whilst I remember!
<daftykins> just to confuse you more, ASRock are a subsidiary of Asus i believe - they just do their own separate line of motherboards etc :>
<daftykins> does it involve running away from it as fast as you can? :)
<TJ-> No!
<TJ-> I'm slowly moving our home network over to be primarily IPv6 instead of IPv4 and got myself puzzled and stuck with a simple ping for about 4 hours during the early hours today
<EriC^^> i was away a bit
<daftykins> my ISP still doesn't give v6, so no hurry to learn for the meantime
<TJ-> One of the (many) wonderful things about IPv6 is, due to the address space being 128 bits rather than 32 bits, there is no pressure to re-use IP addresses. Every device can have it's own publicly routed IPv6 address. That means complex network applications will 'just-work', because the gateway device doesn't need to do PNAT (Port and Network Address Translation).
<TJ-> So, in practice ISPs assign every connection its own /48 network... that means you have more than 18 billion addresses you can use, rather than the measily 1 address (a /32) having to be shared, as in IPv4
<TJ-> It makes things easier since the gateway only has to do routing - no complex connection tracking in the netfilters layer (controlled by iptables).
<TJ-> That does mean though, that if you choose not to firewall those connections on the router but on each device, you've got to get the device firewall rules correct.
<daftykins> *nod* that's the extent of my knowledge really, plus localhost becoming ::1
<TJ-> So... today I was trying to 'ping6' from a server in London back to my laptop PC here. If the firewall on the PC were disabled it worked... great! But, I don't want the world being able to probe the PC. So, first step is to set a default policy of DROP everything on the INPUT table: "ip6tables -P INPUT DROP" ... great. Pings stop getting through.
<daftykins> as did everything else? :>
<TJ-> Now I want to add a rule to allow IPv6 ICMPv6 echo-request packets in on any wireless interface (which uses the new predictable naming scheme with i/fs starting with "wl") : "ip6tables -A INPUT -i wl+ -p ipv6-icmp -m icmp6 --icmpv6-type echo-request -j ACCEPT"
<TJ-> Looks great - except it doesn't work!
<TJ-> the packet counters on the policy DROP rule keep increasing. So I change the policy to ACCEPT and the icmpv6 rule counter starts increasing, and the remote gets ping replies.
<TJ-> Then I change the policy on INPUT back to DROP and the ping continues for a long time... then fails again!
<TJ-> So ... 4 hours of experimenting and scratching my head later, with tcpdump not helping me too much.
<TJ-> Then I have the bright idea of adding a LOG target to the INPUT chain and watch the syslog.
<TJ-> "ip6tables -A INPUT -i wlp11s0 -j LOG" ... great ... syslog filling with entries rapidly, but strangely the expected DROPS of incoming echo-request (type 128) weren't there, only DROPs of type 135 - weird :s
<TJ-> Loooking up type 135 it is "Neighbour Solicitation" ... hmmm AHA!
<daftykins> what on earth is that O_O
<daftykins> which host did it think was trying to sell it insurance? :)
<daftykins> or borrow the mower...
<TJ-> NS is built into IPv6, in IPv4 we know it as ARP (Address Resolution Protocol). It's when a device says "WHO HAS IPv4 address a.b.c.d? Tell MAC Address <my Ethernet MAC>" and a.b.c.d sends a packet saying "I HAVE a.b.c.d, my Ethernet MAC is Z"
<daftykins> aaaah
<TJ-> So, my gateway router was saying "Who Has IPv6 Address 2a02:8011:2007::2, tell <gateway>" but my firewall was DROPing that packet so my PC never replied to the gateway, so the gateway sent a "Destination Unreachable" response back to the remote server that was PINGing
<TJ-> So, since the NS request came from the gateway's private IPv6 address, I was able to add a single simple rule to allow all its private traffic in, which covers these NS requests: "ip6tables -A INPUT -s fe80::/16 -i wl+ -p ipv6-icmp -j ACCEPT"
<TJ-> Suddenly, ping6 is working reliably :D
<TJ-> And now that experience is captured in the logs, so hopefully the explanation and commands will be useful to someone who gets stuck like I was and searches for help
<daftykins> so do i understand right that each of your hosts at home will now have an internal fe80... address and also another, internet facing?
<TJ-> Yes
<TJ-> The fe80:: is everyone's private address space, think like 192.168.0.0/16, or 10.0.0.0/8 in IPv4
<daftykins> also i get this feeling that tasks that rely on network scanning, such as adding a network printer will have to have the device actively reply to a broadcast, because it will no longer be found by an exhaustive search because of how long it would take? :D
<TJ-> It doesn't work like that. 'discovery' services use Multicast that all devices on that link listen for. We have avahi which is the multicast-DNS service, like Apple bonjour
<daftykins> oh ok, i never really sniffed whilst one of such scanners was active to see what it used
<daftykins> here's a helpful image for any future acer EFI issues - https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YBDyodrSfpU/Vj3ABK0g4TI/AAAAAAAAhYQ/w3h6p3b7IOs/w683-h659-no/12208754_908703492540113_2109291744906279860_n.jpg
<TJ-> Multicast addresses are defined in the standards. There are a few global addresses that all devices will listen to, and there are ranges where groups of devices can choose to 'subscribe' to an individual address for their own purposes, such as communication amongst clients of a particular application
<TJ-> HA HA !! Classic
<TJ-> I've got to save that!
<daftykins> i'm thinking of telling satelite to purge 'lilo' since it seems to be messing up his/her kernel updates - sound ok? GRUB seems to be in use
<OerHeks> strange yes
<EriC^^> lilo yikes
<EriC^^> that's pretty ancient
<daftykins> EriC^^: just a heads up, that guys Asus T100 is more of a tablet 2-in-1 device thing, so not quite as conventional as a netbook as they claimed D:
<daftykins> could be intel atom or intel baytrail based
<EriC^^> oh
<daftykins> the EFI probably has to be accessed through that funny windows reboot menu method
<TJ-> You mean REAL power-down; Windows 'FastBoot' is a stupid way of saying 'Hibernate' :)
<daftykins> heh, it's more than hibernate though really
<daftykins> you might even call it... hybridernate!
<OerHeks> is that fastboot not a new way of keeping the system running to obtain updates?
<TJ-> it just cooperates with the firmware so the firmware knows to skip some steps in POST and not do any boot-device scanning
<TJ-> That's why to disable it you have to go into the Windows Shutdown menu and choose Power Off (or whatever its called)
<daftykins> or just run "shutdown -s -t 1" in the run dialogue (Super +R)
<daftykins> for a one time run
<EriC^^> my dad wants to install win10
<TJ-> Amazing that Windows is getting a real shell soon, too, be able to SSH in :)
<EriC^^> told him i'd check if win10 would run fine on his laptop Toshiba Satellite L55 B5267
<EriC^^> anybody know anything about it?
<TJ-> Yeah... 75% certain it'll get infected by malware... but not if he uses Ubuntu
<daftykins> EriC^^: which Windows did it come with?
<EriC^^> he needs windows though for accounting stuff
<EriC^^> win8.1
<daftykins> ah that should be fine then, worst case scenario some onboard audio quirks - i'd just check whether it needs any software utilities to handle the controls e.g. brightness, volume etc - and check if the toshiba site has them for download
<daftykins> and as always with any OS (imo but Windows the most) i'd do a full format and not just rely on the upgrade
<EriC^^> sounds good
<EriC^^> says here also upgrade to windows 10 for free
<EriC^^> http://www.microcenter.com/product/444733/satellite_l55-b5267_156_laptop_computer_refurbished_-_satin_gold
<EriC^^> i think it's like upgrade friendly probably?
<daftykins> oh yeah that's plenty recent
<EriC^^> my dad doesn't know a lot about computers, i think it took us 2-3hours on the phone to make a live lubuntu usb once to try on his older pc
<daftykins> i get some quirks on my asus sandybridge from 4 years ago or more, but it works fine :)
<daftykins> ouch :D
<EriC^^> at the end i told him, fiddle around, get creative, next time we talked i dont remember what he did exactly but i was like what? no dont be creative anymore
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> XD
<EriC^^> he really went for it :D
<daftykins> well, i'd get him to do a backup naturally then let the upgrade run (since it's the way you convert the license, so to speak) and create a flash drive with Microsoft's own 10 ISO downloader so you can get a true clean install done
<daftykins> be a bit of a pain if you're not there in person though i guess
<daftykins> there's really no need to upgrade for most
<daftykins> i'm not bothering to let any clients upgrade, proper business ones
<OerHeks> let me guess, abb4s is on an unsupported 13.10 / 14.10
<EriC^^> i think i'll give it a go, he really wants win10 i think
<daftykins> OerHeks: or Mint ;)
<OerHeks> or fedora
<OerHeks> :-D
<EriC^^> worse case if it messes up big time i'll just help him fix it when he's here in person
<daftykins> EriC^^: oh one other thing would be to burn the recovery DVDs with the manufacturer utility before upgrade
<daftykins> you know the ones that let you clean install from? they're always good just in case
<EriC^^> yeah definitely
<daftykins> i don't trust the recovery partitions :D
<EriC^^> yeah me neither :D
<daftykins> in fact i nuke all machines i set up, partly to reclaim that disk space ;)
<EriC^^> ;)
<daftykins> EriC^^: oh one thing that might be useful to know, is that an update should be coming to windows 10 soon (<3 weeks) that will basically update 10 to being how it should've been at release
<EriC^^> oh, cool!
<daftykins> as we speak i'm trying to get my spare machine to update to the latest build, but it's being stubborn right now :>
<EriC^^> :D
<daftykins> now that i've passed LFS101x on edx.org i'm going to read the second half of the course material XD
<daftykins> hmm, how to setup NFS shares - do i care?
<EriC^^> :D
<daftykins> it's tough really to try and learn Linuxy things when you don't have a practical application for them
<EriC^^> is that the one where you make a game in scratch?
<EriC^^> yeah that's true
<daftykins> nah, just really basic stuff like an intro to the OS in general... bit of command line, tiny bit of bash scripting is coming up too i think
<EriC^^> cool
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xe5qpai5yecabf/edx.JPG?dl=0
<daftykins> there we go, that's the start sections
<daftykins> maybe i should just move on to the sys admin one
<TJ-> I shadowed Eddie on the edX  Python programming course 3 years ago; they were still working the bugs out of the software then and the tests were a real mess
<TJ-> Has it improved?
<daftykins> well i ran through the final exams twice thinking all i had to do was pick an answer then save, but kept wondering why it didn't give me a result
<daftykins> seemed to be i had to click 'check' on each question page too, then it worked and totted up the scores - bit tedious though
<daftykins> i think that's because my one gives you two chances to answer each question
<TJ-> Yes, that Check thing was fun - sometimes it wouldn't allow the correct number of attempts, other times it would never recognise the correct answer, and other times the 'correct' answer was actually wrong so no-one got it
<EriC^^> :D
<daftykins> lol oh dear
<daftykins> i had my accident whilst working on the first version of LFS101x ("Introduction to Linux") so it was already on v2 by the time i gave it a try the other night
<daftykins> i even have a certificate! :P
<TJ-> :D
<TJ-> I ended up contributing patches to the marking system
<TJ-> But never got a cert :p
<TJ-> The problem was grad students were being left to run it, and they knew less than the professor, and were overworked and underresourced
<daftykins> mmm sounds about right
<daftykins> so i guess despite this having some fancy professor on the front, it's really his research Ph.D. lackeys doing the groundwork :D
<TJ-> I'm going to write a 'snippets' tool on my web-site for all these often-repeated instructions for acpi_osi and so-on, so there's a nice short URL to give people instead of typing it repeatedly
<TJ-> Well yes, that makes sense, especially as there's little to no income
<daftykins> sounds like a plan, what about an !acpi factoid ?
<OerHeks> but there is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingACPI
<daftykins> hmm none of those have the same aspect
<TJ-> OerHeks: I just want a simple text-only link that people can use to easily copy/paste into their shell
<TJ-> It can be fetched using curl for example as a script, or whatever
<EriC^^> i made a tiny game in scratch once from the cs course i was trying, didnt really continue it just made the scratch game
<EriC^^> http://skate.orgfree.com/
<TJ-> I'm actually planning on putting my entire /usr/local/bin/ as a shared sshfs accesible resource so folks can mount it and use the latest without messing about
<EriC^^> spacebar to kickflip, h to heelflip
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> hehe so many folks trip up over the " for the ACPI stuff :>
<TJ-> Yes, it is confusing for non-programmer types
<daftykins> guess i'll play with NFS just for the fun of it
<daftykins> well that's fun, all i get is the mount command stalling :) i wonder what's going on here!
<TJ-> mixing nfsv4 with nfsv3? no rpc running on the server? no idmap configured?
<daftykins> hehe, even more basic than that - service not running on the server 8D
<daftykins> didn't pay enough attention to package installation output - showing it wouldn't be running at all post install - until /etc/exports is setup
<daftykins> little bit surprised that ubuntu lets the service be called the very un-memorable 'nfs-kernel-server'
<EriC^^> suspend logs are so exciting
<daftykins> lol
<TJ-> :D
<TJ-> They're the life and soul of the ATH0^
<TJ-> oops, disconnected!
<TJ-> Hmmmm, I've got an order in for a Tesla S P85D, but wondering now about the new Apple Faraday Future. Would I dare own Apple!?
<daftykins> not if i were you ;)
<OerHeks> TJ-, buy VW
<TJ-> :D
<TJ-> OerHeks: I couldn't manage an entire company!
<OerHeks> Oh, that is why daftykins and me are here
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> yeah we have to eat, too ;)
<OerHeks> daftykins needs new tyres, and a cat-door
<TJ-> That'll make him draftykins :D
 * OerHeks wants just a laptop with 32gb & 2x msata
<daftykins> haha, you say that but i often get called that in #ubutu ;)
<OerHeks> some say DerHeks
<OerHeks> "wipe your screen, silly!"
<TJ-> oh, I'm saved! Other research seems to indicate that FF is actually owned by a massive Chinese conglomerate, Leshi Internet & Technology, so I'll only have buggy firmware and the car will problaby talk Chinglish!
<OerHeks> password 0000
<OerHeks> (hardcoded)
<DosTuMai> GPS: Wad go there for liao? Oso geng hao go jin cheng leh.
<TJ-> LOL
<TJ-> I can actually here that in my head
<TJ-> s/here/hear/
<DosTuMai> xD
<DosTuMai> Might see if I can get my GPS to talk in Singlish...
<MonkeyDust> similar to Franglais?
<daftykins> this tlt guy seems to be captain guess-the-possible-options
<daftykins> i don't like the look of the PCI entry in ksft's paste - http://termbin.com/ukcr
<daftykins> doesn't even come up with a name for the nvidia device
<DosTuMai> MonkeyDust: I think so. Sing/Chinglish is a mashup of English & Chinese.
<EriC^^> i think those butterflies the black ones have to be the stupidest creatures in the universe
<EriC^^> one entered my room and is super hyper active turning around in circles in the middle, then goes to the lamp, gets burned, goes in circles again then runs head on into the lamp again
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we mostly get moths doing that
<EriC^^> it's like oh look a light bulb, *runs straight into it and gets burned and leaves* then oh look a light bulb etc. etc.
<daftykins> poor blighters use the sun to navigate, so think it's their path from what i understand - but then it's not like they fly up into space when they're outdoors
<TJ-> daftykins: that ksft lspci is likely because the GPU wasn't released when the PCI tables were compiled
<EriC^^> yeah i think it's a moth, it finally entered into the ceiling fan's metal thingy and i can hear it bouncing in it
<TJ-> Using "lspci -nn" is preferrable since that always gives you the Vendor:Device IDs so you can check it
<EriC^^> daftykins: lol, yeah
<TJ-> but also, "sudo update-pciids" will fetch the latest ID tables, so that lspci should then report correctly
<daftykins> ah yeah i remember you mentioning that one
<DosTuMai> It's the moth's navigation software glitching. They use the moon and stars to navigate by keeping it at a certain angle in their eyes. Kinda backfires with lights.
<daftykins> i would've thought neither would stop it working properly though, as the nvidia driver is up to date
<daftykins> DosTuMai: ah so they're more nocturnal
<TJ-> daftykins: correct, this is just coesmtic for human recognition
<DosTuMai> Yah, it'll be a moth most likely. If you had a pic, I could probably identify it. =]
<daftykins> EriC^^: pics or it didn't happen ;)
<EriC^^> it's in the ceiling fan's metal thingy right now, i can see it walking around in it
<daftykins> d'aww
<EriC^^> dunno if it can't figure out how to leave
<EriC^^> or it's like i'll sleep in this metal nest tonight
<DosTuMai> Most likely not. Poor thing.
<EriC^^> if i turn the fan on, it will fatality it
<EriC^^> lol, i'll probably try to help it out in a bit
<TJ-> vaccuum cleaner!
<EriC^^> it's odd, i dont see it anymore
<daftykins> ok i've no idea how to continue if anyone has any ideas for ksft
<daftykins> i don't fancy delving into fixing a steam install just so he can try running the game again ;)
<TJ-> did you ask if the user has removed the fluff from the radiator recently?
<daftykins> claims the machine is a week old, so it'd be odd for it to be built up that quick, mmm
<daftykins> maybe a reinstall of the nvidia packages will provoke something ;) (nah i'm not holding my breath!)
<daftykins> i'm gonna get some food prepared
<TJ-> I'm off to bed :)
<daftykins> so early!
<daftykins> nn sir!
<TJ-> I didn't get to bed last night, had a nap today whilst it was raining, so trying to get hours back to normal
<OerHeks> my dog don't mind walking at nighttimes
<TJ-> The Huskies loved their 4am walk this morning :) We got back just as the rain started.
<daftykins> looks like ksft got reset again but didn't come back!
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-11-08
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: welcome mate :p
<Latrodectus> ty for the invite
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: the idea behind this, we all do support but never have a chance to discuss to each other
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: so here we are discussing, to make a better support also
<Latrodectus> sweet
<lotuspsychje> we also share latest ubuntu news
<Latrodectus> interesting
<Latrodectus> has the update/upgrade problem been solved for 15.10?
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: well in my opninion, there are many 15.04/15.10 issues so far
<lotuspsychje> upgrade/screen/acpi issues
<lotuspsychje> all depends on different system right Latrodectus
<Latrodectus> yup
<lotuspsychje> others have no issues
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: but we notice alot of black screens/login loops
<lotuspsychje> mostly by wrong drivers
<Latrodectus> yup
<Latrodectus> and then the person doesn't read the output of the update/upgrade and reboots...
<lotuspsychje> yeah upgrading on non-lts is always tricky without backups
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: im on trusty and also testing xenial
<Latrodectus> yup, this is why i usually stick to lts
<lotuspsychje> nice nice!
<Latrodectus> though one thing that i found distasteful about ubuntu, was the suggested apps in unity and the inability to turn it off
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: you mean paying apps?
<Latrodectus> yes
<Latrodectus> but having them in the menu itself
<Latrodectus> and no way to turn it off
<lotuspsychje> ah, you can choose to turnoff internet hits in dash
<lotuspsychje> !info unity-tweak-tool | Latrodectus can help tweak things
<ubot5> Latrodectus can help tweak things: unity-tweak-tool (source: unity-tweak-tool): configuration tool for the Unity desktop environment. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.6ubuntu2 (vivid), package size 325 kB, installed size 2550 kB
<Latrodectus> interesting, no one told me about this
<Latrodectus> so i just changed distro to xubuntu
<lotuspsychje> oh also cool
<lotuspsychje> well i rather used to unity now
<Latrodectus> ya i run both lubuntu and xubuntu
<lotuspsychje> thats for everyones choice
<lotuspsychje> nicely
<Latrodectus> unity seemed nice, but when i saw the resource usage i, and the paid apps, i changed to xubuntu
<Latrodectus> *usage,
<lotuspsychje> yeah i understand
<lotuspsychje> i like unity's left bar ease
<Latrodectus> true
<lotuspsychje> xubuntu is nice n fast
<Latrodectus> i need the speed because i'm planning to do some multi media production on it
<lotuspsychje> nice, specificly what?
<Latrodectus> music, animation, image, editing, maybe some video editing
<Latrodectus> *image editing
<lotuspsychje> nice!
<Latrodectus> i think that linux has gotten to a level that you can begin to do post processing on it, i'm just gonna see how far i can go with it.
<Latrodectus> plus i hate apple, and dislike windows
<lotuspsychje> same here mate
<lotuspsychje> i installed trusty on so many boxes
<lotuspsychje> and try to spread the word :p
<lotuspsychje> opensource is the future
<Latrodectus> here's then thing that i tell the apple sheep: apple's whole busness model is to rip you off, by selling you the crappiest shit, for the most expensive price
<Latrodectus> and for those windows fanboys: window's busness model is DLC
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> true
<Latrodectus> though it's shifting to being a paid platform for three letter agencies
<Latrodectus> like cortana really?
<Latrodectus> you're gonna try to exfil info about your users, and then charge them for it?
<Latrodectus> lol nope
<lotuspsychje> its a $$$ world
<Latrodectus> yup
<Latrodectus> that's where linux flat out wins
<Latrodectus> linux should take over the universe
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu made a big jump last years
<lotuspsychje> i totaly agree
<Latrodectus> and i see a couple of big jumps for linux in the future
<Latrodectus> especially with big bussiness picking it up
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<Latrodectus> but you know what that means though?
<Latrodectus> more viruses for linux
<lotuspsychje> yes, just readed something yesterday
<Latrodectus> oh link?
<lotuspsychje> optirun virus for android,linux,windows,mac
<lotuspsychje> hmmm not sure of the name
<Latrodectus> that's okay, i know that viruses exsist for all platforms
<lotuspsychje> indeed
<lotuspsychje> alot of 0day rootkits out there
<lotuspsychje> even for linux
<Latrodectus> the only reason why linux and mac don't have big problems is because of the market share of windows
<Latrodectus> like why write something that can only target 10% of the market when you can write something that will target 70%-80%
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<Latrodectus> the only thing that protects linux right now is how premissions are setup
<lotuspsychje> and recent updates
<Latrodectus> yes
<lotuspsychje> to patch security holes
<Latrodectus> i think that the default setting for security updates should be to do it immedatly when found
<Latrodectus> and to not prompt the user
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: http://www.viruss.eu/security-news/omnirat-on-the-loose-spywares-nibbling-android-with-a-taste-for-linux-mac-and-windows/
<lotuspsychje> omnirat it was
<Latrodectus> ty
<Latrodectus> to be fare though 80% of android devices are insecure...
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: well the user is still the boss of the system
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: maybe even 99% lol
<Latrodectus> yup, but security should not be left up to the sheep
<lotuspsychje> that google app store is a malware nightmare
<Latrodectus> google is a malware nightmare
<lotuspsychje> i despite pc banking on phones and leak Oses
<lotuspsychje> its a real nasty danger for our future
<Latrodectus> yup
<Latrodectus> banks should block mobile connections
<Latrodectus> because they're not capabel of security
<lotuspsychje> banks dont care, what users do
<Latrodectus> but banks should care about loseing money
<lotuspsychje> the sheeps loosing money all round the globe
<lotuspsychje> they never loose a dime, insurances
<Latrodectus> but they could pay less for insurance if they didn't have to pay out so much
<lotuspsychje> its the ppl that loose big money
<lotuspsychje> thats true
<lotuspsychje> im sure that every bank have rootkits
<Latrodectus> i know that banks like to rip people off, but they should be smart about their security
<lotuspsychje> and remote hackers can follow every move
<Latrodectus> i've gotten to a point that i don't trust any electronic device that's connected to the internet
<lotuspsychje> the whole world is one big botnet
<lotuspsychje> very true
<Latrodectus> and then any device that ever touched the internet is tainted
<lotuspsychje> your healthy paranoia mate
<lotuspsychje> even offline boxes got usb infections
<lotuspsychje> spreading around their intranet
<Latrodectus> yup
<lotuspsychje> anyway brekfast here Latrodectus tnx for joining us and feel free to add to favs
<Latrodectus> ty for inviteing me, have a good day
<lotuspsychje> Latrodectus: you too :p
<trumpyy> sup
<Latrodectus> nm, getting tired
<trumpyy> i know that feeling
<Latrodectus> you know the feeling that you get from not blinking, while looking at a screen for hours on end
<trumpyy> well i tend to blink every now and then, but yeah lol i know that feeling
<Latrodectus> well i think that my eyes are about to fall out...
<trumpyy> lol that sucks
<lotus|xenial> morning to all
<lotus|xenial> morning tj
<TJ-> morning
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: having issues loading a 4.3 kernel on xenial
<lotus|xenial> says error on archive --install
<lotus|xenial> after a sudo dpkg -i linux-headers-4.3.0-040300-generic_4.3.0-040300.201511020846_amd64.deb
<TJ-> have the other related packages also been installed?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: this is what the guy asked me:https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513477 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ralink RT2800pci doesnt work by default" [Medium,Confirmed]
<lotus|xenial> no, just put that .deb in a test folder in /home
<TJ-> To be frank, I'd ignore that for now. The later kernel isn't going to help. That device has been supported since 12.04 or even earlier.
<lotus|xenial> thats what i thought
<TJ-> That's just the standard response to kernel bug reports
<lotus|xenial> should i just reply confirmed then
<TJ-> If you can wait a day until I've got my WMP600N into a working Mobo here we can see what is expected, and compare with your system
<lotus|xenial> ok mate
<lotus|xenial> will do
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotus|xenial> lordieeeee
<TJ-> wet and soggy morning :)
<lotus|xenial> sunny here
<TJ-> I've spent a happy hour converting the Arch iptables systemd service and default rule setting into a nicer Debianised modular format. I *like* systemd :)
<lordievader> News reported yesterday was the hottest day since measurement started. 18C in november.
<lotus|xenial> yeah lets hope for a cr4ppy winter
<TJ-> lordievader: WMP600N has been supported about 10 years: see e.g. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Device/Linksys%20WMP600N
<lordievader> My iptables systemd service simply calls a script which sets everything up (ipset & ip(6)tables)
<lotus|xenial> lets c
<lordievader> TJ-: That is for lotus|xenial I think ;)
<lotus|xenial> karmic
<TJ-> lordievader: same here; a single script that works for ipv4/6 and reads sets of default rules to apply from /usr/share/ and /etc/
<TJ-> Grrr, tab complete!
<lotus|xenial> and early morning
<lordievader> Ipset is really nice :D
<TJ-> lordievader: I'm going to get the script and service control added to the iptables package so we have standard support, regardless of UFW. It's much more important with IPv6 now becoming more widespread, else systems are left open
<lordievader> Wasn't that the default Ubuntu policy, accept all?
<TJ-> Yes, which has to change
<lordievader> Couldn't agree more. Never understood why they didn't at least set the drop policy on the input table.
<TJ-> It may be OK with IPv4 where most services are done outside the kernel, but with IPv6 so much is integrated into the protocol, especially with ICMPv6 RA, NS, and everything else
<TJ-> but it is refreshing to be able to throw PNAT out the window and just route :)
<lordievader> Perhaps that was the reasoning, "most boxes are behind nat we can allow input".
<TJ-> Yes, precisely
<lotus|xenial> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513477 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ralink RT2800pci doesnt work by default" [Medium,Confirmed]
<lotus|xenial> oops
<lotus|xenial> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/06/omnirat_malware_android_poc_mac_linux/
<lordievader> lotus|xenial: Would the RT2800usb suffer the same problem?
<lotus|xenial> lordievader: i think so
<lordievader> Hmm, that would explain a thing or two.
<lotus|xenial> lordievader: i had it working on trusty after fixing something with TJ- with linux-firmware
<lotus|xenial> cant remember how exactly
<lordievader> Must say I haven't really fully troubleshooted the issue yet.
<lotus|xenial> anyway ill try to bug ancient bus to xenial again in early stage :p
<lotus|xenial> bugs
<lotus|xenial> here's my second: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/1513801
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513801 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "Scrambled screen and mouse pointer on first boot" [Undecided,New]
 * lordievader blames Unity :P
<lotus|xenial> :p
<lotus|xenial> yeah havent tested kubuntu on this card,ever
<lotus|xenial> maybe i should
<TJ-> OK, I must still be asleep! Just spent 10 minutes trying to debug an error in a bash shell script... then realised I was calling it with 'sh' as in "sh -x /path/to/script" - no wonder if failed!
<lotus|xenial> :p
<lotus|xenial> !coffee
<lordievader> TJ-: More coffee!!
 * lordievader slide TJ- a cup
<lotus|xenial> cfhowletttttttttttttt
<cfhowlett> hey bubba!
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> how are things in beijing
<cfhowlett> counting down.  I'm soon to relocate; Tokyo.
<lotus|xenial> cfhowlett: for good?
<lotus|xenial> i love japan
<cfhowlett> well, for the length of the employment contract.  It'll be my first time.  Looking forward to it.
<lotus|xenial> nice
<lotus|xenial> eat alot of sushi for me
<cfhowlett> yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaah, no.  sake maybe?
<lotus|xenial> of course
<lotus|xenial> no sushi without sake
<cfhowlett> :0
<lotus|xenial> lol away
<cfhowlett> hey, I was gentle.
<lotus|xenial> and he did it!!
<cfhowlett> :) that's a win
<TJ-> Grrr, I'm getting annoyed. NM runs 2 private instances of dhclient when using both IPv4 and IPv6. when those processes write to the syslog they don't identify themselves. So, I have a message there and don't know which one is having difficulty!
<lotus|xenial> realtime tail -f cant seperate them neither i presume?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: maybe this can help: http://serverfault.com/questions/556124/monitoring-ipv4-vs-ipv6-traffic
<lotus|xenial> uh-oh
<lotus|xenial> * pikaaaa (~ubuntu@115.246.94.209) has joined
<lordievader> Known troll?
<lotus|xenial> yes
<lotus|xenial> he comes back with false info lordievader
<lordievader> Do ops know about him?
<lotus|xenial> daftykins added an op report, but not sure they was awake at this time
<lotus|xenial> lordievader: he quoted TJ- last time to use for another user and wasnt relevant
<lordievader> Probably just to look knowledgable.
<lotus|xenial> yeah
<lotus|xenial> yesss hes got in with ikonia lol
<lotus|xenial> now its not gonna take long lol
<lotus|xenial> yayyy
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> he got himself banned
<lordievader> I'm not surprised :P
<lotus|xenial> lordievader: all ok with your new ssd?
<lordievader> Yeah, it is working nicely.
<lotus|xenial> nice!
<lotus|xenial> ok dinnertime here guys
<lotus|xenial> bbl
<lotus|xenial> if anyone see daftykins tell him pikachu got banned
<lordievader> Dinner? It is the afternoon?
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing today?
<BluesKaj> fine here, lordievader, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here
<BluesKaj> heavy frost last night, but supposed to be +10 or so this afternoon, gotta finish raking the leaves before the rain later this week
<lordievader> It is around 17 today, quite warm for november.
<BluesKaj> yes , we had 20 last weeks for a few days
<BluesKaj> err last week
<daftykins> yay no more pikachu! :) (i'm keeping with the pokemon nickname, it's funnier)
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> daftykins: \o
<daftykins> hallo!
<daftykins> how are we all this relaxed sunday night?
<EriC^^> good good, you?
<daftykins> yeah not bad thanks :)
<EriC^^> :)
<daftykins> looks like a chance call and meet today has got me some work \o/
<EriC^^> awesome
<daftykins> helping to properly network cable an electrician friends client's house
<EriC^^> i bought the tv today
<daftykins> ah yeah? happy with it?
<daftykins> which did you settle on? :D
<EriC^^> they didn't have 1920x1080 though, the guy said they dont carry it for 32" tv's there
<EriC^^> i got a 1366x768 one
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> my 2006 Sony was that res - and my laptop is :>
<EriC^^> i ended up getting a samsung, i wanted an lg, but the seat wont work cause of the funky leg design
<EriC^^> but i'm happy with the samsung, it's nice
<daftykins> excellent :>
<daftykins> was the plan just to watch TV, or to connect your laptop/PC into it too?
<EriC^^> man they have some crazy shit there
<EriC^^> like curved huge tv's and stuff
<EriC^^> i was like whoa O.o
<EriC^^> nah, it's just for watching tv
<OerHeks> 1366x768 tvs are cheap, i want a full hd 200 mhz
<EriC^^> why are the new ones curved anyways?
<daftykins> some kinda gimmick
<daftykins> the idea is that our eyes prefer a curved display
<daftykins> i've not seen one in person, but someone i know got one and they say they don't even notice the difference in use
<EriC^^> it looks pretty cool i'd say
<EriC^^> i want to go buy a hdmi cable and lots of neat pc stuff
<OerHeks> such intel compute-stick too?
<EriC^^> what's that?
<OerHeks> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/07/02/intel-compute-stick-now-comes-with-ubuntu/
<OerHeks> plugin hdmi, attach bt keyboard and go
<EriC^^> wow that is nuts!
<daftykins> what's funny is the Linux ones i've seen have way lower specs compared to the Windows one XD
<EriC^^> lol
<OerHeks> one sidenote: it is a huge stick hanging on your hdmi ..
<EriC^^> yeah that's true
<EriC^^> i want to maybe get a hdmi cable for my room's tv -> pc i had one but it broke a while ago, for the ps3 too
<EriC^^> and maybe some random usb's maybe
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the little FireTV stick things amazon sell, they at least come with a short extension in case your HDMI sockets are too close together
<EriC^^> it's pretty nuts that they fit a quad core on that thing
<OerHeks> That would be preferrable.
<EriC^^> a usb pc, heh
<EriC^^> with microsd card slot
<EriC^^> hmm it has a power input?
<EriC^^> and 2 usb slots? 1 for key 1 for mouse?
<EriC^^> oh ok 1 usb slot
<EriC^^> and wireless keyboard and mouse
<EriC^^> i think it uses it's own power supply though
<daftykins> yeah no power from HDMI, the amazon things for example would use what is basically a smartphone charger
<EriC^^> i wonder if you get the windows one could you format and install ubuntu on it?
<EriC^^> they gave ubuntu 1gb memory and 8gb space, windows is 2gb and 32gb space
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<daftykins> hey sir! funny news about our buddy pikachu i saw there :>
<EriC^^> evening lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins and EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: yeah got him right where i wanted :p
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: started to make scene while ikonia was on lol
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I've just fired up a PC with the WMP600N in
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: nice, wich ubuntu version?
<TJ-> 12.04
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: hows that working out
<lotuspsychje> brb
<daftykins> :) http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/11/08/%23ubuntu-ops.txt muchly amusing
<OerHeks> grinn
<TJ-> HaHa, I think lotus managed to actually reprogram the device ID of his WMP600N!
<TJ-> whilst I'm AWOL if lotus returns ask him to "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" please
<OerHeks> oke
<OerHeks> lotus
<OerHeks> lotus
<OerHeks> lotus
<OerHeks> [20:20:50] <TJ-> whilst I'm AWOL if lotus returns ask him to "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" please
<OerHeks> but please use paste.ubuntu.com
<OerHeks> :-P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> no LoL, serious.
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: im on another box here
<OerHeks> oh
<OerHeks> sell it, and return
<lotuspsychje> holdon lemme go upstairs
<lotus|xenial> OerHeks: paste me again please :p
<OerHeks> [20:20:50] <TJ-> whilst I'm AWOL if lotus returns ask him to "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" please
<lotus|xenial> tnx
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13200303/
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: You're amazing! You've somehow managed to reprogram the PCI config space of that device (in other words, corrupt it ) :D
<lotus|xenial> uh?
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<lotus|xenial> hey pauljw
<pauljw> :)
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: explain in english now :p
<TJ-> First look at this table which shows the layout of PCI device registers. Pay attention to the Device ID, Vendor ID, Subsystem ID and Subsytem Vendor ID fields
<TJ-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_configuration_space#Standardized_registers
<TJ-> Now compare my device's lspci report to your own: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13199781/
<lotus|xenial> lets c
<TJ-> The block of hexadecimal data in those is the PCI config registers
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: yes, but your device has the rt2800pci module loaded, mine not
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: or doesnt that matter
<TJ-> If you look carefully you'll recognise the expected Vendor:Device ID at 00 (bytes are stored little-endian, so you have to reverse them). 14 18 01 06 is 1814:0601
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: forget about the driver; that has ZERO to do with it
<lotus|xenial> ok
<TJ-> BOTH our devices PCI registers report the CORRECT Vendor:Product ID
<TJ-> BUT your PC somehow translates that to "1014:0601" in the record which is what causes it to fail to be recognised
<TJ-> 00:0c.0 Network controller [0280]: IBM Device [1014:0601]
<lotus|xenial> yeah i see
<lotus|xenial> so why does it do that?
<TJ-> 1014:0601 not 1814:0601
<TJ-> Well, the most obvious cause is a glitch in the CPU's data bus, or in a memory module
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: ram glitch?
<TJ-> I'd bet on the former since I can't imagine the exact same memory address being used every time for different OS releases.
<TJ-> So, somehow, the PCI config is initially read incorrectly but later, when we use lspci -xxx and force it to be read directly, we see the correct data
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: do its not ubuntu's fault, but somewhere hardware/bios?
<lotus|xenial> so
<TJ-> Looks that way; I'm wondering if it is some kind of PCI bus bug
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: but the weird thing is, it all worked on trusty
<TJ-> I want to try some direct manipulation of the device to see if we can 'poke' it into waking up
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: we fixxed this somehow with linux-firmware
<lotus|xenial> 100% sure
<TJ-> Yeah, which is why I think it's a PCI Bus issue
<TJ-> The kernel is definitely misreading the device ID at boot time
<lotus|xenial> ah
<lotus|xenial> i also recently tested trusty usb again live, and card didnt show anymore
<TJ-> which is unlikely to be a device issue, but a PCI bus issue. It's obviously 'loosing' the 2nd nibble (4 bits) of the 1st byte, so instead of reading 0x18 (as we can see is actually there) it is reading 0x10
<TJ-> We need to check the Extended PCI config space; let me check how to do that
<lotus|xenial> ok
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: can i pastebin some other boot logs somewhere?
<TJ->  "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -xxxxvvvnn -s 00:0c.0 )" (4 x this time)
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13200817/
<TJ-> the extra x gets us the extended 4096 byte config space
<TJ-> Oh, the device doesn't have any extended - didn't realise they were that old!
<lotus|xenial> lol
<lotus|xenial> i refuse to throw away old hardware :p
<TJ-> right. thinking cap on. We know the config space registers are correct *now*. Can we influence the kernel though
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: how about i test a cmos clear?
<TJ-> won't help
<lotus|xenial> ok
<TJ-> Could you test it with a 15.10 *i386* live ISO please?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: i cam from 15.10 64bit
<lotus|xenial> upgrade
<TJ-> I think my Chinese friend that hacks the PCI code has boo-booed :)
<lotus|xenial> didnt work on wily
<lotus|xenial> only trusty saw the card
<TJ-> Well, test an i386 Live ISO
<lotus|xenial> kk
<TJ-> I think there's a bug in the amd64-specific code
<TJ-> Unfortunately I can't test a 64-bit install on the PC here its only a 32-bit CPU
<TJ-> I also noticed your bug report doesn't have a dmesg attached, which it really needs
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: ok ill add it
 * OerHeks grabs a 64 bit duo core with 2 gb from the wastebin
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: added: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1513477
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513477 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ralink RT2800pci doesnt work by default" [Medium,Confirmed]
<lotus|xenial> downloading wily32
<lotus|xenial> might take while for getting it on stick, as xenial lil buggy startup creator
<TJ-> I think the crux of the issue is: "acpi PNP0A03:00: fail to add MMCONFIG information, can't access extended PCI configuration space under this bridge." ... MMCONFIG is the keyword there
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: acpi bug would make more sense, as trusty hadnt the issue
<TJ-> might be worth trying a boot with acpi=off - it'll probably break lots of other things, but if you can do it in Recovery mode to get to a root shell so you can run "lspci -nn" and check the Vendor ID that'd be enough
<lotus|xenial> ok ill try after wily 32 live
<TJ-> Also, separately, try "pci=check_enable_amd_mmconf"
<lotus|xenial> what does that do
<TJ-> And another, which tells the kernel to try a different method to access the PCI config space: "pci=conf2" (the default is "pci=conf1" )
<TJ-> check_enable_amd_mmconf [X86] check for and enable
<TJ->                                 properly configured MMIO access to PCI
<TJ->                                 config space on AMD family 10h CPU
<lotus|xenial> ok
<daftykins> silly question, but that card coming up as IBM isn't down to it being pulled from a more business system at all is it? very odd idea i know, but thought i'd shout
<daftykins> i think one of you even suggested it earlier on
<TJ-> [    0.084000] smpboot: CPU0: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ (fam: 0f, model: 04, stepping: 08)
<TJ-> daftykins: No, it's actually misreading the Vendor ID.
<lotus|xenial> daftykins: we investigated and base was IBM and vendor linksys
<daftykins> ah ok
<TJ-> The card actual has stored in its PCI config registers: 1814:0601 BUT at PCI bus probe time it reads it as 1014:0601 - dropping the 2nd nibble
<lotus|xenial> what a weird situation lol
<daftykins> weird! same in other systems too?
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: does precise got your card by default?
<daftykins> i guess lotus wouldn't dare put Windows near it ;)
<TJ-> I've seen this kind of thing in the distant past but not recently
<lotus|xenial> lol dualboot you wish!!
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: or did you have to play with firmwares
<lotus|xenial> first wily usb attempt create failed
<TJ-> firmware doesn't enter into this; that is loaded by the driver, and the driver is loaded when the kernel tells udevd a new device has been added. udev finds the module to load by the PCI Vendor:Device ID, and as the kernel is passing the wrong one, it fails.
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: but on trusty lspci -nn saw the right chipset
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: and after adding firmware right, card was working
<TJ-> lotus|xenial: right. So like I said, a bug in the recent kernel's PCI bus probe logic
<lotus|xenial> ic
<TJ-> I think I've found a way to force the kernel to see it correctly whilst the system is running
<TJ-> can you "pastebinit <( ls -l /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:0c.0/ )"
<lotus|xenial> sure
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13201737/
<TJ-> Try this: "echo 1 | sudo dd of=/sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:0c.0/rescan"  - that tells the device to rescan the hardware. It *may* help. Then, to check, do "lspci -nn" and see if the Vendor:Device ID are now correctly showing 1814:0601
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: http://paste.ubuntu.com/13201788/
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: no: 00:0c.0 Network controller [0280]: IBM Device [1014:0601]
<TJ-> OK, let's try a more serious one then
<TJ-> Try this: "echo 1 | sudo dd of=/sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:00:0c.0/reset"
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: gives me a>_
<lotus|xenial> blinking
<lotus|xenial> cursor
<TJ-> OK, that's forced a reset - did 'dd' report and complete, or is it hung?
<lotus|xenial> hung on blink cursor yea
<TJ-> Open a new terminal, check you've got control
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: same, ibm device
<TJ-> Let me check the kernel source; I'm not sure if '1' is the correct value to write. It ought to be since those things are usually booleans and 1 == true
<lotus|xenial> 3rd time wily usb creating grrr
<TJ-> Yes, 1 is the correct value
<lotus|xenial> TJ-: whats next :p
<TJ-> Try all those kernel command-line parameters I gave you, one at a time, with Recovery mode/root shell to check
<lotus|xenial> ok trying acpi=off first
<TJ-> I'm reading the source. It's drivers/pci/probe.c::pci_scan_device() which calls pci_bus_read_dev_vendor_id()
<lotus|xenial> brb reboot with acpi=off
<TJ-> OK
<lotus|xenial> acpi=off no luck
<lotus|xenial> next going for pci=check_enable_amd_mmconf
<lotus|xenial> reboot
<TJ-> ... which calls pci_bus_read_dev_vendor_id() which calls pci_bus_read_config_dword() which is created by a preprocessor macro in drivers/pci/access.c PCI_OP_READ(dword, u32, 4) which calls (struct pci_bus*bus)->ops->read(bus, devfn, pos, len, &data)
<lotus|xenial> pci= failed
<lotus|xenial> next is "pci=conf2
<lotus|xenial> reboot
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: conf2 locked me into an initram busybox
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: cant boot anymore
<TJ-> OK, so we know method2 doesn't work. reboot it normally and try "pastebinit <( sudo lspci -nn -H1 -s 00:0c.0 ; sudo  sudo lspci -nn -A dump -s 00:0c.0 ; sudo lspci -nn -H1 -M )"
<TJ-> That will try several different direct hardware probe methods
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: gonna b for tomorrow mate
<TJ-> OK, keep a note of it
<TJ-> At least we have a line on what the problem is now
<lotuspsychje> ok
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: tnx for supporting so far
<TJ-> I'll try to test mine in a later, 64-bit, kernel tonight
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> nite nite
<pauljw> :)
<OerHeks> i hear that claim before, no memtest86 in grubmenu ..
<daftykins> mmm, can't be a thing of EFI installs right?
<OerHeks> maybe, http://i.stack.imgur.com/1aKFc.jpg , then 'advanced options' ??
<daftykins> yep, guy claimed he just saw his older kernels there
<TJ-> UEFI can't do memtest86+, or couldn't some time ago, because UEFI was 'in the way' (using memory so can't test it)
<TJ-> Got an interesting PC here - just booted it with Rescue and its kernel 2.4.21, dated 2003, and SUSE Linux. Interesting experience!
<daftykins> ah that'll explain why http://termbin.com/weir has no entry :)
<daftykins> TJ-: :D
<daftykins> TJ-: keep a count of commands or tools that aren't there ;)
<OerHeks> oh oke, learned something today
<TJ-> It's doing rather well when it agrees to boot. I think one of the RAID controllers has an issue
<daftykins> <3 RAID :)
<TJ-> About to boot it from a DVD with 15.10 on.. that'll shock it
<daftykins> "what are you doing to meeeeee!?"
<daftykins> we're getting a lot of these guys with expensive gaming laptops trying to dualboot ubuntu with Windows, and it really not working well, these days
<TJ-> I forgot how DVD trays like to snag my fingers!
<OerHeks> eject && eject -t
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> oh, does not work, -t, on laptops without motorised caddy
<daftykins> were you guys ever fans of pushing the trays in? i always used the buttons for safety :>
<OerHeks> stupid button is under the tray, design-failure nr 1
<TJ-> oh grrr! it's got 2 physical CPUs but they're 32-bit! Back to the DVD-writer!
<OerHeks> TJ-, hop on your bicycle, and grab a 64 mobo here
<OerHeks> plenty of that stuff ..
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> the BIOS doesn't support USB boot which surprised me
<daftykins> does it sound safe for me to tell ksft to install libc6* on his 14.04.3 install? it's to get 32-bit libs for steam
<daftykins> oh, ^libc6.*
<TJ-> it sounds like it needs the multilibs. I'd be tempted to run 'ldd' against the steam executable, to see which libraries it claims to have lost
<TJ-> Because if it worked, and now doesn't, that points to disk corruption
<daftykins> it did only report the one missing at least in its' error, libc.so.6
<TJ-> Might be worth also doing "sudo ldconfig" in case its just the library cache broken
<daftykins> ty :) interesting he's not getting a power off anymore since updating the BIOS
<OerHeks> he did already, this afternoon with ikonia
<daftykins> huge jump from v2.xx to v3.xx on the Lenovo site
<TJ-> I'd 'strace' it too, see what is going on
<OerHeks> if ksft did install a prop driver for his intel/nvidia machine, steam should work.
<TJ-> how it can 'miss' libc I don't know; almost nothing can function without that
<TJ-> And everything else is working, so that makes me wonder if its a libc shipped with steam
<OerHeks> that is checked too, still wonder ..
<TJ-> what release is ksft using? there shouldn't be apt errors.  Is it 14.10 by any chance?
<TJ-> i asked for 'apt-cache policy steam' to identify where the steam package is coming from
<daftykins> nah 14.04.3 - he just meant he was re-running steam thinking my dist-upgrade would have fixed it
<daftykins> that sounds good, i'll see if i can persuade him to run it too :)
<daftykins> i did wonder if ubuntu repo or PPA based
<TJ-> right, or gdebi, or debian!
<daftykins> ah he got you it
<TJ-> I've found similar bugs with debian
<OerHeks> or steam in wine :-D
<daftykins> 'tis official
<TJ-> dependencies: http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/steam
<TJ-> libc6 (>= 2.12)
<OerHeks> so he might need  libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386
<TJ-> OerHeks: if the package is installed by apt, all the dependencies should be pulled in. He reported some errors with apt-get though, so yes, we need a pastebin of those
<daftykins> my history of commands would have involved "purge nvidia* " but that won't match when nvidia is in the middle right? so i probably didn't remove it
<TJ-> No, this is a dynamic linker issue
<TJ-> I'm wondering if he's got an older version of libc6 installed under /usr/local/ or similar
<daftykins> when he first came in with the issue it sounded like steam ran until the fiddling commenced :D
<TJ-> Hmmm... /lib32/libc.so.6 and /libx32/libc.so.6
<daftykins> O_O
<TJ-> that script does a load of weird stuff to figure out which executable to run
<daftykins> i don't think the steam client is too clever :) a while back they had a bit of code that erases / as root instead of /some/path/to/a/game/ if you told it to delete a game :)
<TJ-> It looks crap already! Looks like we lost ksft, not seen a response anyhow
<TJ-> HA!
<daftykins> ruh roh
<TJ-> let's see if <my username> gets translated!
<OerHeks> still not installed libc6:386 ... is he fooling us?
<TJ-> It's installed
<TJ-> I'd laugh if ksft's real username were actually "<my username>" and the <> and space were causing the script to die
<daftykins> XD
<OerHeks> uh oh
<TJ-> urghh, it's messing with the LIBRARY_PATHs
<daftykins> not fond of that me_xy guy demanding help to fix Windows boot, because he's using a Linux program to do it XD
<daftykins> "this means it's your problem!"
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-07
<Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.45.48 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<daftykins> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.45.48 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<daftykins> oops
<daftykins> !info linux-image-generic yakkety
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.8.0.26.35 (yakkety), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<daftykins> >:D
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> Hey  lotuspsychje :) .. As Always .. pleased to read ya . All goes well ?
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om great here and this side, what about you?
<Bashing-om> Oh I am still upright, and breathing ! There is hope for me yet .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^
<EriC^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> one day off here, its gonna be laaazy sunday :p
<lotuspsychje> oh shoot..its monday today
<daftykins> yeah you missed it!
<daftykins> D:
<lotuspsychje> all the days mixxed here lol
<lotuspsychje> slow in main oO
<daftykins> repo?
<lotuspsychje> #ubuntu
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> you're too early! :D
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: can you reach my site? lotuscomputers.be
<daftykins> lotuspsychje: yes sir
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<daftykins> seems to be covered in a weird language though ;)
<lotuspsychje> im starting to add stuff with opencart now
<lotuspsychje> yeah, dutch for starters, when everything is done, ill do english also perhaps
<daftykins> hehe, it's all good - just teasing
<lotuspsychje> most of customers will be dutch :p
<daftykins> yep!
<lotuspsychje> im wondering if i can add images of laptops/desktops from the vendors i work with without copyright
<lotuspsychje> this copyright thing is really anoying
<daftykins> mmm they might have info on that
<lotuspsychje> ive mailed them about it
<lotuspsychje> its good for them i sell their products right?
<lotuspsychje> why make a big deal of images
<daftykins> *shrug* i would just be afraid of what they'd do if they did have a problem
<lotuspsychje> lol
<daftykins> hey lotus i got my intertubes upgraded \o/ got 10Mb upload now instead of 5 :>
<daftykins> main ISP on the island finally started a new package :D
<lotuspsychje> nice
<ducasse> hi all o/
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse :p
<ducasse> it's stopped snowing! \o/
<daftykins> woo!
 * daftykins throws a celebratory snowball
<lotuspsychje> big rainy here
<lotuspsychje> !info stellarium
<ubot5`> stellarium (source: stellarium): real-time photo-realistic sky generator. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.14.3-1 (xenial), package size 4755 kB, installed size 11097 kB
<lotuspsychje> daftykins: so what your doing with the upload speed?
<daftykins> seeding Linux ISO torrents super fast!
<daftykins> ah it's just great for running stuff from home
<ducasse> i think they've upgraded some hardware here, now i get more bw than i pay for :)
<daftykins> hehe
<lotuspsychje> cool
<ducasse> upgrade all the things! :)
<lotuspsychje>  HexChat: 2.10.2 ** OS: Linux 4.4.0-45-generic x86_64 ** Distro: Ubuntu "xenial" 16.04 ** CPU: 2 x AMD C-60 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics (AuthenticAMD) @ 1000MHz ** RAM: Physical: 3,6GiB, 61,0% free ** Disk: Total: 113,9GiB, 63,5% free ** VGA: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 6290] ** Sound: HDA-Intel - HD-Audio Generic1: HDA-Intel - HDA ATI SB ** Ethernet: Qualcomm Atheros AR8152
<lotuspsychje> v2.0 Fast Ethernet ** Uptime: 1h 39m 4s **
<lotuspsychje> no network speed :p
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i've got an router with 866Mb 802.11ac right now
<daftykins> i can do 40-50MB/sec realworld over it
<daftykins> not that i rely on wifi :> cables \o/
<ducasse> me too, but thankfully wifi is not much of a hassle here, the spectrum isn't crowded.
<daftykins> it's not even about that, it's that the tech sucks :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> agreed, i don't trust or like it.
<daftykins> i have a bad AP at a clients right now actually
<lotuspsychje> i got like 50mbit for 39 euro
<lotuspsychje> vdsl2
<daftykins> ah same tech
<lotuspsychje> phone/tv/internet no data limits
<daftykins> my upgrade took the ceiling from 40 to 60 but my line sync is only 52 so that's what i see
<lotuspsychje> breakfast time guys
<lotuspsychje> have a nice day guys
<ducasse> enjoy!
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<daftykins> what are you making us? :) enjoy o/
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> breakfast royale with champagne!
 * ducasse wants american-style pancakes
<lotuspsychje> with sweet honey ontop
<ducasse> mmmmm
<lotuspsychje> try those pancakes with ricotta cheese
<lotuspsychje> its delicious
<lotuspsychje> you can eat tons
<lotuspsychje> --out--
<ducasse> funny, this guy in #ubuntu got only one reply in precisely two minutes and decided irc is dead :)
<daftykins> hmm they best ask for a refund!
<Bashing-om> Well .. that time for me once more .. recuperate and do this again - later
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<daftykins> doh
<ducasse> it's all crickets and tumbleweed in #ubuntu now anyway, not really worth hanging around
<daftykins> ducasse: just this morning or regularly?
<ducasse> in weekends, usually, and most mornings until 0930-1000 or so.
<EriC^> guys tell me if the bug is still there in ubot5`
<ubot5`> <EriC^> wants you to know: Package bla does not exist in xenial
<EriC^> is it?
<EriC^> ducasse: daftykins ?
<ducasse> EriC^: ?
<EriC^> did ubot5` say something even though i was outside the channel?
<ducasse> EriC^: yep
<EriC^> ok, thanks
<daftykins> hah
<EriC^> one day somebody will flood the channel and make ubottu not function for a whole day
<EriC^> and then the bug will be fixed
<EriC^> :D
<EriC^> i reminded them in ubuntu-ops just now, dax was informed and said he'd pass it on like a year ago though
<daftykins> yeah, they're all useless
<daftykins> EriC^: if someone did it though, you'd be #1 suspect!
<EriC^> i should sell it to some guy pissed off at k1l or bazhang that has a botnet and keeps joining and flooding
<EriC^> lol
<EriC^> haha
<daftykins> selling bot exploits on the black market you say? :P
<EriC^> lol
<EriC^> i've got a 0day..
<EriC^> what kernels?
<EriC^> 1.4
<EriC^> what?
<EriC^> ubottu.. 1.4
<EriC^> lol
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> thick fog here, can hardly see the other side of the street
<pauljw> bright sunshine here this morning, had some fog yesterday morning.
<pauljw> rain coming tomorrow sometime.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-08
<Bashing-om> All the fun I can stand . Laters
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi all
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<daftykins> o/
<EriC^^> heya daftykins
<EriC^^> BluesKaj
<daftykins> g'day
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^ daftykins
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-09
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning /9
<lotuspsychje> dax: !mythbuntu delete? as mythbuntu project is dead?
<lotuspsychje> !budgie
<lotuspsychje> dax: and !budgie as official ubuntu flavor
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/11/ubuntu-budgie-now-official-ubuntu-flavor
<dax> mythbuntu still exists in supported versions of ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> oh
<dax> its factoid will probably go away once 16.04 is EOL
<lotuspsychje> dax: ok!
<dax> budgie's probably waiting on someone writing a decent factoid for it
<dax> i know approximately zero about it so
<lotuspsychje> great, just letting you know
<lotuspsychje> perhaps more users playing with kodi, so mythbuntu lost interest
<EriC^^> is trump really winning?
<EriC^^> good morning guys
<lotuspsychje> dont know is he?
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=elections&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#eob=enn/o//////////////
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: http://www.nytimes.com/elections/forecast/president .
<lotuspsychje> are the elections happening right now?
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: :p
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: thanks, we're screwed though
<lotuspsychje> seems like trump winning
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yes , Be a rurning point .. good or bad for the US .
<EriC^^> yeah 95% chance he'll win
<EriC^^> he'll wreck the country
<EriC^^> wants to make 35% tax cut => like 7+  trillion dollar debt increase
<EriC^^> build wall next to mexico, and try to force companies to not be able to bring products they make abroad into the us by huge taxes
<lotuspsychje> oO
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Well . we will se .. but speaking for me .. I am scared . And I am not afraid of anything . But this scares me . But mot as much as if H. Cclinton was in that seat .
<lotuspsychje> bbl guys breakfast
<EriC^^> clinton wanted to focus on making free education for middle class, and working on environment stuff and renewable energy to make more jobs for others
<EriC^^> lol how did trump win
<EriC^^> everybody was joking
<EriC^^> he'll be president now wth
<Bashing-om> Middle class appeal .. and people here wanted a change .
<EriC^^> but the guy is like a savage
<EriC^^> did you watch any debate?
<EriC^^> he's not diplomatic or political
<EriC^^> like a farmer with huge mouth and stupid
<EriC^^> and doesn't know what he's talking about, just taking low shots and stuff
<EriC^^> also it's a little obvious he wants to make tax cut for the huge companies cause he owns a lot
<Bashing-om> Yeah, I watched a few of them ... egotistic to the extreme ... but he does know money and management.. and maybe get this county back in the black .
<EriC^^> he probably a rich millionaire who's bored and decided to make president
<Ben64> he does not know money and management
<EriC^^> and he's like a hill billy redneck and didnt like politicians for changing good 'ld merica
<EriC^^> and got that approach of anti-politicians and the americans fell for it somehow?
<Bashing-om> What is scary ,, he is to be the Commander In Chief of America's armed forces .
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> he will bomb mexico for a bad taco he gets
<Ben64> and he gets to appoint supreme court justices
<Ben64> even the one obama was supposed to do probably
<JanC> democrats called of election night: âgo home and wait until tomorrow for the resultsâ
<JanC> sorry, wrong channel
<ducasse> hi all
<EriC^^> hello daftykins o/
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<OerHeks> \0/ hillary
<ducasse> hehe - everybody's quiet because, maybe because of this impending sense of doom? :)
<ducasse> *quiet today
<OerHeks> Dunno, tonight was awesome, vote couting that is...
<OerHeks> mythbuntu disappears, budgie desktop now official flavor
<ducasse> so, number of flavors the same...
<BluesKaj> now that Trump's been elected we're ready for the the invasion http://imgur.com/a/XkZQe
<ducasse> i heard the canadian immigration site crashed :)
<BluesKaj> yes ducasse , it did
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-10
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> Hiya lotuspsychje .. we can be in a easier state .. good help has arrived .
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: did you know secureboot could block a wifi card?
<lotuspsychje> i fixxed a HP notebook yesterday with a broadcom wifi chip, and secureboot made it recognized as it was 'unclaimed' before
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Nope !  .. Now that do not make a lot of sense . What in the world is common between WIFI and secure boot ???
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: seems like secureboot blocks 'unsafe' things
<lotuspsychje> in my opinion its just a hiding game, so its harder to not use win
<Bashing-om> Well .. another instance " just goes to show, never can tell " .
<lotuspsychje> 16.04 has now built-in secureboot option to switch it off in install
<Bashing-om> Oh for the days of a '57 Chevy .
<Bashing-om> Wait ! Back then a computer was just a pipe dream .. I take that back :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> hi all
<Bashing-om> I can feel the day crew comming on :)
<ducasse> hi Bashing-om, any riots going on near you? ;)
<Bashing-om> None that I am aware of presently ..come January ..might be a different story ... hummm .
<ducasse> sad situation. are you getting some sleep soon? seems quiet atm.
<Bashing-om> The sad thing was that we are, as a nation, in the position that we are in .. And yeah .. was in mind to pack it in for this session .
<ducasse> how's your machine? did you fix the problem?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Naw .. like sometimes happens .. went from bad to worse with the bios upgrade .. Got a new plan .. see how it works out to re-install to the SSD. Dis-connect the spinners, Pin Bios to default, and " set to optimized defaults" , repartition the SSD and install the xubuntu desktop . See how it functions without the spinners in the picture ( YUK) .
<ducasse> yes, bios defaults might help. it's an odd problem, though...
<Bashing-om> I do not jave a clue how untegrating the SSD messes with the firmware such that the partion tables on the spinners are messed up ( twice ! tested ) . Had to run fsck to even boot up the spinners .. and grub takes a real pounding .. now you tell me ... how !
<ducasse> intriguing. are the drives running in ahci mode?
<Bashing-om> Well .. as this board only supports sata .. I do think so .. I can find no setting to make an adjustemnt .
<ducasse> there's usually a bios setting that lets you choose raid, ahci and ide or something similar.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Keep in mind this is a ABIT board from 2007 . Addressing a SSD would not even be a concept back then .. right ?
<ducasse> shouldn't really matter - a drive is a drive, pretty much. aiui, anyway.
<Bashing-om> yeah .. I do have the settings for raid ( had this system raided a few years back ) . and there is a bit about "block" mode for the hard drives to enable ot disable .. can not imagine I would disable block mode .
<ducasse> as long as the drives are set to ahci i would think it should be fine, i don't really know what else to suggest...
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I am truely bamboozeled, I have now got my 14.04 minimal install booting with nomodeset ( graphic's card ) .. and 16.04 ubuntu desktop happy with the nouveau driver .. but I am sure that when I also connect the SSD will again drive the system insane .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: what kind of ssd is this?
<Bashing-om> Samsung EVO 850 .
<ducasse> have you tried upgrading the firmware on it?
<Bashing-om> The real strange thing is that the OS installes just fine .. I have re-installed a number of times in differing configurations, and not once seen a problem with the install !
<ducasse> but when you start using it it blows up?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I checked for firmware updates for it .. and none are offered .. there is for the 850 pro however .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: you need to download the samsung magician software and run it, it will grab the latest firmware.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Well it freezes up and can not install a proprietary driver .. and when I attempt to boot back into the spinners .. ouch .. grub and the partition tables are messed up .
<Bashing-om> Well .. sure can not hurt to burn the magician software and see what results .. Is a good thought .
<ducasse> that makes no sense at all. i wonder  what this could be... maybe the drive is possessed.
<ducasse> i'd try the firmware upgrade, though, it could very well be the missing piece. i've got no other suggestions, anyway.
<ducasse> Bashing-om: also, if you can, try the ssd in a different machine. just to see how that behaves.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Is a good thing ,, I will prior to the re-install .. as I really do want to re-partition to suit my use case .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: well, best of luck anyway :) let me know if i can help.
<Bashing-om> Anyway .. gone to bed .. will sleep on it a dither some more for a solution . G nite .. thanks for holding my hand .
<ducasse> :)
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> what's new, BluesKaj ?
<BluesKaj> Hi daftykins, not much, it's a bit early here, how about you?
<daftykins> pretty quiet today, hiding in from the nasty weather (fast winds and rain the last few days) and doing some disc ripping for a client (music and DVD)
 * BluesKaj nods
<BluesKaj> was mucking about with pihole dns adblock type resolver, think I have it working now on Zesty by installing cgi and php7 upgrades
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> i'm happy with ublock origin in firefox :>
<BluesKaj> this makes for faster surfing
<daftykins> doubt there's much to be improved over the aforementioned addon
<BluesKaj> I notice a difference on this old pc
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> lots of variables to such a thing
<pauljw> hi everyone
<daftykins> wb!
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<pauljw> morning BluesKaj
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-11
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> hi all
<Bashing-om> ducasse: WB ..
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hi Bashing-om
<ducasse> \o
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hey to you also .. Bussiness coming along - nicely ?
<ducasse> -10Â°C today...
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: wow thats coldd
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: still not have alot of time yet, but sure..bit by bit its comming up
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: received my 50 8gig usb sticks with company logo yesterday
<lotuspsychje> ill use them for free promo to my best customers
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Longest journey ends even with small steps :)
<lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast
<Bashing-om> Yall take care, good nite .
<OerHeks> nn bash
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-patches-multiple-kernel-vulnerabilities-in-all-supported-ubuntu-oses-510156.shtml
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5`> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.47.50 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 12 kB
<ducasse> hi all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> hrmm tried an up to date install of kodibuntu on my ancient atom+ion1 machine, sticking with nvidia-304 as the driver - but i'm getting broken VDPAU
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins
<daftykins> NOTICE: VDPAU::Open: required extension GL_NV_vdpau_interop not found <-- from Kodi's log
<BluesKaj> I find kodi runs perfectly fine just as an app rather than an OS on my machines ...leaves a lot more options
<daftykins> well, this is their outdated ISO so once you dist-upgrade it seems some things break
<BluesKaj> jarvis ?
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> kodibuntu is a trusty base
<BluesKaj> k , that might be a bit old
<daftykins> nah nothing wrong with it
<daftykins> ah nevermind, i gave up and now have LibreELEC on there :D much better :D
<daftykins> a wild TJ- ! hey there, how are you?
<TJ-> Heya Mr D, how you doing?
<daftykins> i'm very well thanks :D
<daftykins> i think you'd be proud too, because i now have soldering capable hands!
<TJ-> I'm great too; back to the online world (mostly) over winter after a busy summer
<daftykins> ah yep :) is the dream house all complete now then?
<TJ-> Woo-hoo!! party-time :) Did you invest in a multimeter too?
<TJ-> No, there's still a lot of work to do but it is weather tight
<TJ-> The larger problem is it is very isolated so getting materials to it is difficult when its wet and muddy
<daftykins> ah i see, nah no multimeter just yet ;)
<TJ-> I've hit a problem with basic lxc unprivileged containers that I can't fathom; very frustrating!
<daftykins> ah har
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw, TJ-
<daftykins> i was just beating my head against a brick wall of broken VDPAU on 14.04, but i've ditched that setup now
<TJ-> BluesKaj ought to know how to solve my lxc issue by now :p
<daftykins> :D
<BluesKaj> TJ-,  lxc? my memory fails
<daftykins> TJ-: would a dropbox link still be as useful as a chocolate teapot, to show you what i'd repaired last? :D
 * BluesKaj has no clue about containers unless it's the coffee cans I save for screws etc
<TJ-> LOL
<TJ-> Why is it when *i* come in search of help everyone hides?
<daftykins> that's my usual experience too ;)
<daftykins> well, unless you're about!
<BluesKaj>  not hiding TJ- , I'm just clueless :-)
<TJ-> Grrrrr
<TJ-> the lxcontainers channel is totally quiet so looks like i'm gonna spend several frustrating hours trying to figure it out, only to find that the instructions probably are missing some vital step
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj , everyone
<R13ose> Hi
<R13ose> Oh, the problem has reappeared maybe because I restarted and didn't make the text added to grub permanent.  Should I do that and if so how? What text is this again?
<daftykins> i didn't think it was solved to begin with
<daftykins> "acpi_osi=Windows 2013" wasn't it? i forget
<daftykins> or 2012 maybe
<R13ose> It was "acpi_osi=Windows 2012"
<TJ-> often good to clear out the existing OSI list first, using "acpi_osi=! "acpi_osi=Windows 2013" " - the ! clears the list
<TJ-> ^^^ that's an example from this PC
<daftykins> !info gnome-session-fallback
<ubot5`> Package gnome-session-fallback does not exist in xenial
<R13ose> daftykins: back.  How do I do that?  Go into grub again and put that in?
<daftykins> you need to edit /etc/default/grub to enter it into one field yeah, i can't tell you which it is though
<TJ-> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="..."
<R13ose> one sec  looking
<R13ose> this is what I have now: http://pastebin.com/6rLSze0u the first line was there already and the second line was GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="" in which I added the text TJ- said above.
<R13ose> If that is correct, I will save the file and then should I restart?
<TJ-> R13ose: ok, you'll need to *escape* the embedded double quote marks so DO NOT reboot yet
<R13ose> Do I need to run update-grub after I save the file?
<R13ose> TJ-: can you explain what you mean?
<TJ-> so for each embeded " you have to write \" ... here's mine as an example
<TJ-> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="no_console_suspend acpi_osi=! acpi_osi=\"Windows 2013\""
<R13ose> okay
<R13ose> do I need the first part of your line no_console_suspend?
<TJ-> R13ose: otherwise the first " matches the second one rather than the second one being included inside the string
<TJ-> R13ose: no, just the acpi_osi lines your system needs
<TJ-> R13ose: if i recall correctly, earlier, you mention yours was "Windows_2012" not 2013 ?
<R13ose> right 2012.
<R13ose> Here is the line: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="acpi_osi=! "acpi_osi=\"Windows 2012\"" but I see 5 double quotes and I believe I need even numbers right?
<TJ-> R13ose: correct. lose the second "
<R13ose> TJ-: Done.  Now I should use that command I talked about earlier and then restart?
<TJ-> R13ose: "sudo update-grub" will take those options and write them to the /boot/grub/grub.cfg
<R13ose> TJ-: right and now I can restart?
<TJ-> R13ose: yes
<daftykins> TJ-: as it happens that guys actual issue is one you might enjoy :> it's some annoying acer laptop if i remember rightly, intel graphics only, but some boots it'd come up with the 'modeset' driver and other times the 'intel' :)
<daftykins> user first came in complaining of UI issues in browsers, such as updating the full screen when opening tabs etc, i think
<TJ-> could it corollate to boots vs suspend cycles? many machines configure ACPI stuff less strictly on resume from sleep than they do at cold boot time
<daftykins> mmm not sure
<daftykins> i very quickly learnt that 16.10 handles Xorg's log location differently - and at that point i used a few expletives regarding FOSS always changing things for no good reason and walked away
<daftykins> (wasn't my ticket)
<TJ-> Huh? 16.10 has moved logs again?
<R13ose> I am back, and will have to wait until the problem comes up again if this does.  There was a warning when I did the update that maybe I should fix, right?
<TJ-> where to now?
<daftykins> well it seems like it creates a different Xorg log per PID, so when you boot up it's a different X instance than once you log in
<daftykins> i don't know very clearly as i don't run desktop or non-LTS :)
<daftykins> R13ose: TJ's our resident deity on issues if you could describe the main problem from scratch :)
<daftykins> iirc it was browser UI update quirks when opening tabs
<TJ-> oh, that's been pretty standard for a few releases now. It's to do with separating the login X server from the user server. I forget what scenarios it kicks in from though
<R13ose> daftykins: if the problem comes up again, I will let the channel know again.
<daftykins> oh, i figured you'd recall
<R13ose> daftykins: I know the problem exactly, but don't want to flood the channel with a problem that is not happening now.
<R13ose> I am already testing TJ- approach and will see if this works.
<daftykins> R13ose: write it in a paste and then link it...
<R13ose> daftykins: my problem?
<daftykins> it's not a new approach though, you were meant to have been using this since the first time we discussed it
<daftykins> yeah
<R13ose> daftykins: yes but I most likely restarted and didn't edit grub again as this was written into grub for good.
<daftykins> yeah, you were meant to keep it handy to use every time and see if it had fixed it
<daftykins> so essentially this entire process is still at the 'undetermined' stage
<TJ-> what is the actual fault? missing hardware?
<TJ-> I seem to recall with this PC it would have missing hardware if the mains power was not attached at boot
<daftykins> i'm only going to be guessing from memory unless R13ose describes it again, so i'm gonna give up i'm afraid
<R13ose> I am writing
<R13ose> daftykins: the command, I forgot to do that each time sorry.
<daftykins> eh no skin off my nose, my machines work :D
<R13ose> Here is the pastebin that I setup to expire in 1 month: http://pastebin.com/9Up28Z60
<daftykins> yeah so that's what led to trying to read the xorg log, then found out some boots would be using modeset, others would be using intel (or so it seemed)
<daftykins> so Bashing-om went down the acpi_osi route
<R13ose> yep
<R13ose> I have to go in a few mins as family is over now.
<R13ose> bbl
<daftykins> \o
<TJ-> Finally figured out my LXC issue! I'm using upstream kernels and it seems Ubuntu kernels carry CGROUP (control group) patches to allow relative bind mounts of the kernel file-system, and they haven't been sent upstream!
<TJ-> fix is to edit the container's config file and add "lxc.aa_allow_incomplete = 1"
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> wasted an afternoon on that, grrr
<EriC^^> hey Bashing-om
<EriC^^> how did the new bios chip go?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: From bad to worse in some respects ... gonna keep the latest version .. and try a new plan . ending up re-partitioning and re-installing a full desktop xubuntu . This has turned into a real learning experience :)
<EriC^^> sounds good man
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-11-13
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> wb lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> howdy Bashing-om hows the irc night been?
<Bashing-om> It has been lively .. Nothing real heavy .
<freakyy> hi all. anyone wanna talka bout budige?
<freakyy>  ;D
<freakyy> budgie
<lotuspsychje> freakyy: its becomming an official flavor, so we read
<freakyy> yea that's awesome ;D
<freakyy> im just testing it and i like it even more than gnome-shell ;D
<lotuspsychje> next year officially right?
<freakyy> yea, with 17.03
<freakyy> *094
<freakyy> omg 04
<freakyy> does anyone have
<freakyy> a screenshot of the default desktop of ubuntu-budgie-remix?
<freakyy> ill look for one
<freakyy> because i have this iBus thing
<freakyy> which comes with mate
<freakyy> and i dont know i dont need it
<lotuspsychje> freakyy: check deviantart, its full of linux screenshots
<freakyy> ok thanks
<freakyy> ok its not there
<freakyy> how can i ... see the autostart programs
<freakyy> oh and how do i add thigns to autostart
<freakyy> in budige
<lotuspsychje> morning baizon
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<freakyy> ok
<freakyy> hi ;d
<freakyy> oh it's a pitty budgie doesnt have a proper open windows ALT+TAB switching
<freakyy> it just switches through windows and brings them to foreground - doesnt just show icons or anything and switches between them in middle of screen
<freakyy> thats something it really should have
<lotuspsychje> maybe add an idea or bug
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - good morning :)
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<lotuspsychje> about to breakfast again, we always doublecross ducasse
<lotuspsychje> :p
<ducasse> :)
<ducasse> go get breakfast, need to catch up on my backlog :)
<lotuspsychje> laterz ; )
<Bashing-om> That time for me , Got to take a pause for the cause . Laters .
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<Bashing-om>  Baccckk .. did I mis anything exciting while in my recouperative stage ?
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-06
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<ducasse> good morning
<jink> I doubt that.  It's Monday.
<ducasse> jink: ...and it starts with a bloody cross-poster ;)
<jink> Heh.
<EriC^^> can we try removing the "+r" on the channel?
<jink> EriC^^: Why would you want that? O__o
<EriC^^> so more people join
<EriC^^> the channel's dead
<jink> It's dead because it's dead.  People that want support will have to register.  The only thing that'll happen when you remove +r is an extra spam and idiots.
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<Ben64> themes never work right in ubuntu :(
<ChileStuff> Greetings denizens
<ChileStuff> Anyone alive?
<nacc> ChileStuff: we're pretty async here, just talk adn people respond if they're around
<BluesKaj> we're alive, but a lot aren't here
<ChileStuff> Well my question is relatively simple, (I hope) ...
<ChileStuff> I am playing with version 17 someting, and I can log in to my home connection, but the only way out is to disable or turn off my wireless ... is there any way to just simply disconnect from the internet?
<BluesKaj> this isn't really a support channel, mostly it's a discussion chat, #ubuntu chat is your best bet
<ducasse> this (still) isn't a support channel
<ChileStuff> (If I turn off wi-fi other devices are effected and I don't want my puter connected 24/7)
<ChileStuff> Yeah well I regged the other day but I can't get in
<ChileStuff> Surely someone can answer
<nacc> ChileStuff: you have to identify every time you join th eserver
<ChileStuff> *sigh*
<ChileStuff> I'm new to this
<ChileStuff> Can I script the ident?
<ducasse> use sasl
<ChileStuff> Nevermind, I'm short on time
<ChileStuff> Can someone *please* just tell me how to simply disconnect?
<ChileStuff> Or if it's possible
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: define "log in"
<ChileStuff> Well, in winblows, I click on the internet access connection and then I can do web stuff. When I'm done I click on it and tell it to disconnect
<ChileStuff> Sorry, I don't have the right terminology
<TJ-> ChileStuff: disconnect wifi from the home router? use the network manager taskbar applet, press the "disconnect" link under the name of the wifi SSID
<ChileStuff> Um ... where is the located?
<TJ-> ChileStuff: depending on the desktop environment, it's an icon in the taskbar.
<ChileStuff> hmm
<ChileStuff> Ok, then I did something wrong
<ChileStuff> The icon I click on to connect?
<ChileStuff> Or is it elsewhere?
<TJ-> ChileStuff: I've never seen an icon that is clicked to connect! Usually the WiFi auto-connects after you've provided the credentials once
<ChileStuff> Yeah that's the problem. I told it not to autoconnect because I want to control when I connect. But once I do, I can't DISconnect
<ChileStuff> Well by icon I mean the thing you click on to bring up your network connections
<ChileStuff> Look, I'm way out in the boonies and all I have is dialup. I can't connect my firestick and my computer at the same time without seriousl lag on both
<TJ-> ChileStuff: the nmapplet icon when pressed shows a sub-menu listing all the network connections. When a Wifi connection is active there should be a "disconnect" option directly beneath that connection which when pressed will disconncet
<ChileStuff> Ahh, that's the problem ... "should"  :/
<TJ-> ChileStuff: what release of Ubuntu is it? which desktop enviroment?
<ChileStuff> The only option available when connected is "turn off wi-fi" ... which disables everything
<ChileStuff> The 17 something ... latest available, Gnome I think, but I have loaded it litterally 3 times, and have only windows before that
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: when would you disconnect from the internet but not wifi?
<TJ-> ChileStuff: does that menu list your Wifi router's SSID?
<leftyfb> (assuming wifi is your router)
<TJ-> ChileStuff: you'll only see 'disconnect' if the connection is there and connected
<ChileStuff> Well I need wi-fi for the stick to work ... if I turn it off nothing can connect
<ChileStuff> I'm probably looking in the wrong place
<leftyfb> the stick?
<ChileStuff> Amazon Firestick
<leftyfb> what does the firestick have to do with turning off wifi on your computer?
<ChileStuff> It don't, but if I turn off wi-fi, the firestick can't connect to the internet, which is how it brings in content
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: turn off wifi on your computer, not your router
<leftyfb> to disconnect from the internet
<ChileStuff> Well that seems to be my problem. I don't see anything that seperates puter wi-fi from router wi-fi
<leftyfb> :/
<ChileStuff> I only see one thing that says "turn off", and that disables the router
<TJ-> ChileStuff: Why are you looking at the router's web interface?
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: the network icon in ubuntu at the top-right.
<ChileStuff> Are you familiar with "Murphy's Law"?
<ChileStuff> Yes that's the one I use
<TJ-> ChileStuff: is your PC acting as the network router!?
<ChileStuff> Murphy has nothing on Barker's Law ... Even if it defies the laws of physics, where I'm involved, it's gonna find a way  :/
<TJ-> ChileStuff: you mentioned dial-up. Are you using the Ubuntu PC to connect over a modem connection to your ISP, and having the Ubuntu PC share the connection with other devices via it's Wifi, so the Ubuntu PC is acting as a WiFi access point?
<ChileStuff> No I have a router box sitting on the entertainmet  center
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: then disabling wifi on your pc has nothing to do with wifi on the router which connects to your firetv stick or anything other devices
<ChileStuff> No not dialup ... DSL ... sorta high speed but over a phone line
<TJ-> ChileStuff: in which case the things you're telling us make no sense
<ChileStuff> My point exactly  :P
<nacc> ChileStuff: ok, so at this point, this is nothinng to do with Ubuntu, and is probably general IT support
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: disabling wifi on your pc has nothing to do with wifi on the router which connects to your firetv stick or any other devices
<nacc> ChileStuff: offtopic for here, for sure :)
<ChileStuff> It shouldn't be, but the facts are inescapable
<TJ-> So, you have an xDSL connection from your ISP terminating in a wireless router?
<ChileStuff> Yeah I guess I'll have to get to work and deal with it later
<ChileStuff> I appreciate all the effort to help
<leftyfb> :/
<ChileStuff> My router is plugged in to a phone line, the wireless is between it and my puter
<ChileStuff> But for some reason when I say "turn off" wi-fi, it disables any access to the internet by anything trying to connect to the router
<ChileStuff> Barker's Law  :/
<ChileStuff> Well, thanks for trying
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: that's not how it works .... if you turn off wifi on your pc, it will not affect wifi on the router connecting to other devices
 * ChileStuff points to Barker's Law
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: please stop with that
<ChileStuff> It's not the way it's *supposed* to work, but somehow I porked it up good
<ChileStuff> Whit what?
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: do you have a smart phone?
<ChileStuff> sure
<leftyfb> does it connect to the wifi on your router?
<ChileStuff> Never tried .. no need
<leftyfb> it's called troubleshooting
<ChileStuff> ok, got that
<ChileStuff> I'll give that a run next time I load Ubuntu
<leftyfb> turn your computer off and connect your phone to wifi. If/when it connects, then you have proven that all is right with the world
<BluesKaj> also saving data charges
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: if you do not see the wifi with your smart phone, then you are not running wifi on your router, but instead are running it on your computer
<ChileStuff> Question is, if it does connect, what does that say if the firestick still drops off?
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: not the concern right now
<ChileStuff> ahh
<ChileStuff> gotcha
<TJ-> is the Ubuntu PC connected to the router over wireless, or with a wire?
<ChileStuff> Yes I do see the wi-fi connection
<ChileStuff> wireless
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: are you running this IRC client on your ubuntu PC?
<ChileStuff> No, I had to go back to winblows
<ChileStuff> But I plan to set it up for my next session
 * TJ- wonders if the router is in bridge mode and the PC is doing PPPoEoA authentication to the ISP
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: first, I told you to turn off the pc. 2nd, if you want to troubleshoot ubuntu, you should be running ubuntu
<ChileStuff> Would help if I could play with it while getting advice  :)
<leftyfb> TJ-: yep
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: did you have to setup ppp/authentication in your network settings on your ubuntu pc?
<ChileStuff> Ok, we just switched to a foreign language
<TJ-> Sounds like you need to find someone local to come in and sort it out
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: did you have to setup the internet connection on your ubuntu pc? Beyond just clicking the wifi name and typing a wifi password?
<ChileStuff> Let me set IRC up in Ubuntu and then we'll talk again ... and next time I'll do it in the right channel  :)
<ChileStuff> No, Ubuntu sees my wireless connection without any setup
<leftyfb> ChileStuff: if you disable wifi on windows, does your firetv stick disconnect from the internet?
<ChileStuff> Dunno, but I'll test that too
<ChileStuff> Have to get to work ... thanks for the help
<leftyfb> that wasn't fun
<TJ-> I thought it was April 1st
<kostkon> Firefox 47..
<kostkon> that's funny though ^^
<TJ-> In other news... what are we going to do now that Intel is combining an AMD Radeon GPU into their notebook chip package!? It's going to make figuring out drivers rather interesting!
<leftyfb> they should have just bought Nvidia
<kostkon> per this piece? https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/intel-announce-a-new-cpu-with-amd-graphics-and-hbm2-memory.10667
<TJ-> Yes, for ultra-light notebooks, to give some oomph on the graphics side
<TJ-> at last we'll be free from the horrors of optmius/prime slow/fast GPU pairing
<TJ-> this: https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/new-intel-core-processor-combine-high-performance-cpu-discrete-graphics-sleek-thin-devices/
<kostkon> i wonder which discrete chip they're talking about though
<TJ-> I'd assume it'll be based on the Vega architecture
<nicomachus> TJ-: we're gonna do what we always do. Wing it.
<TJ-> nicomachus: it'll make things much easier. Intel will supply the drivers, but it'll be mostly AMD code. I would guess Intel will add the knobs and dials to control the power effecifiently.
<TJ-> The Vega arch is designed to use HBM2 and that's what Intel says is in the new chip - CPU + GPU + HMB2
<TJ-> I've just enabled 256-colours in my login terminal (tmux) and it's made reading source-code in vim so much easier!
<BluesKaj> ducasse, thanks for the ifupdown tip, /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/resolv.conf settings now control my internet connection again :-)
<daftykins> \o/ purge the automagic rubbish!
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins, yup
<BluesKaj> I'm away from systemd control to some degree as well
<daftykins> hehe, i've still not had to fight it
<TJ-> It's easy!
<TJ-> I think it's more logical than ifupdown for sure
<BluesKaj> ok time to test the vpn connection ..bbiab
<BluesKaj> old school setup works well
<TJ-> I've found systemd-networkd is easier to configure than ifupdown
<TJ-> [Match] Name=enp3s0  [Network] Address=10.254.1.200/24
<BluesKaj> TJ-, which networkd file do you edit to setup your networking, not that I'll do the same but I'm curious
<TJ-> BluesKaj: here's an example of a 4xNIC bond + a VLAN on a separate NIC (from one of my servers) http://paste.ubuntu.com/25904382/
<TJ-> for the VLAN the two files enp9s0.99.* ... if it weren't VLAN it'd only need enp9.s0.network with [Match] Name=enp9s0 [Network] Address=10.254.0.201/24
<TJ-> Notice LAN_Aggregate.network sets a Gateway= and DNS= as well
<TJ-> On there, the vlan99 is the management VLAN and has no external access; the bond0 interface is on the Internet-connected VLAN (which is set in the switch ports so no VLAN tagging needed on the server itself)
<BluesKaj> I just setup /etc/network/interfaces with static ip, gateway, address, and dnsmasq . seems my dns setting in /etc/resolv.conf  were overwritten so my router settings did the job there
<BluesKaj> going to reboot to make sure
<BluesKaj> ok, resolv.conf gets overwritten, but it's immaterial since my interfaes file and router dns optional settings do the job
<BluesKaj> anyway, time to go, stuff to do
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> we shall have to educate on the ways of resolvconf murdering
<TJ-> /etc/resolv.conf is usually a symlink to /run/resolvconf/resolv.conf which is updated by either Network Manager or systemd-resolvd
<nacc> tgm4883: s/upgrade/change professions and maybe hire a lawyer/ :)
<tgm4883> nacc: seriously
<nacc> IANAL, but there are some pretty serious legal ramifications, I would imagine, to claiming to be securing a client's banking information and then ... not doing so.
 * nacc imagines this conversationn is going to get worse before it gets better
 * oerheks installs Hardy
<oerheks> :-D
<TJ-> I don't see how it/he/they can pass the PCI-DSS checks
<nacc> TJ-: they can't, I don't thikn
<TJ-> After ChileStuff earlier, my troll detector is firing again now though
<TJ-> I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or go for a 10km run!
<nacc> my client can't afford downtime
<nacc> but they *can* afford to be on a 4-year EOL release??
<daftykins> i'd like to be able to handle 10km :P
<TJ-> it's a troll,
<nacc> TJ-: must ber
<TJ-> why he's not been kicked yet I don't know! you told me off for 5 lines of off-topic a week ago when the channel was dead!
<nacc> heh
<oerheks> good night for trolls, it is getting colder outside?
<nicomachus> dax flexed but no kick :/
<oerheks> rww would not do that..
<TJ-> oerheks: does "Ander Hotwek"  sound like a name or something to you? It sounds Belgium/Netherlands or similar
<JanC> doesn't look Dutch to me  :)
<TJ-> Maybe further east, if it is in fact a name
<TJ-> the connection was from an xDSL line in the UK
<dax> nicomachus: correct, i chose to quiet them instead of removing them from the channel :P
<dax> generally better if they're not being a problem in PM, lets them figure out what the point of the channel actually is
<oerheks> ander is, hotwek not
<dax> not sure it'd make much difference either way in this case, and they left themselves anyway
 * oerheks killing a sausage & crushing cauliflower + potatoes
<TJ-> oerheks: make sure the Piglets don't get you :)
<nicomachus> dax: ah, I saw -q not +q
<nicomachus> now I see that it was +q
<nicomachus> whoops!
<leftyfb> troll alert <Delimia>
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-07
<Ben64> !lts | Ben64
<ubot5> Ben64, please see my private message
<Ben64> there, finally got hexchat to look like xchat
<Ben64> now to fix themes :S
<Ben64> maybe if i do a good enough job, i can upload it to gnome-look
<ducasse> hi all! \o
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - all well?
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse great here
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: what about you?
<ducasse> ok here, bought new phone yesterday \o/
<lotuspsychje> cool that moto e?
<ducasse> moto g5
<lotuspsychje> nice
<ducasse> they ended up costing the same, and this was just a better phone, so...
<lotuspsychje> android 7?
<ducasse> yep, but 7.1 should be available soon
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<ducasse> \o
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje , ducasse
<lordievader> How are you?
<ducasse> all good, but freezing outside. brought out the trash an hour ago, the wood was so slippery with ice i went straight down with no warning
<ducasse> i hate ice :-(
<lotuspsychje> cold here also
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/enlightenment-0-22-linux-desktop-environment-greatly-improves-wayland-support-518410.shtml
<ducasse> pity enlightenment is so horrible ;)
<lotuspsychje> yeah last time i tested had many bugs
<lordievader> Yes, pretty cold today :(
<lotuspsychje> !info zathura
<ubot5> zathura (source: zathura): document viewer with a minimalistic interface. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.7-1 (artful), package size 135 kB, installed size 530 kB
<lotuspsychje> nice1 ducasse
<ducasse> i like it, you might not :) as i tend to keep my hands on the home row it reduces mouse usage etc
<lotuspsychje> mupdf also light on keyboard and love it
<lotuspsychje> installing
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: open with..doesnt seem to work on epub
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: its not gui?
<lotuspsychje> think it doesnt like unity
<lotuspsychje> bbl making ready for work
<ducasse> it provides an x11 window for viewing, but is completely keyboard-driven.
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<ducasse> have fun at work today, lotus - i'm staying nice and toasty inside :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> !upgrades
<ubot5> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - see also http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade
<lotuspsychje> 2015 ermm
<lotuspsychje> we should need this in a trigger https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/Upgrades
<lotuspsychje> !security
<ubot5> Security Updates are dealt with here:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Security - See also !root, !firewall, !server, and !usn
<lotuspsychje> !securityupgrade
<lotuspsychje> have a nice1
<ducasse> !bionic
<ubot5> Ubuntu 18.04 (Bionic Beaver) will be the 28th release of Ubuntu - Announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1518 - Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<EriC^^> remove the +r from the channel you lazy ops!
<EriC^^> wtf is wrong with you
<EriC^^> ikonia et the rest!
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<ducasse> wb BluesKaj - how's life?
<BluesKaj> Hey ducasse, just fine thanks. how about you?
<ducasse> sorted out a new phone last night, so can't complain ;) felt a bit incommunicado for a few days :)
<BluesKaj> btw thanks for the ifupdown tip yesterday, just need to setup the staic ip etc in the interfaces file
<BluesKaj> static ip rather
<ducasse> np, i do that myself here atm. nice to still have the option of doing what has worked for 20 years
<BluesKaj> DNS in the resolved.conf file, both in the systemd dir
<BluesKaj> the interfaces file is still in /etc/network, /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten ...wonder if I purged NM
<BluesKaj> maybe i could avoid systemd altogether
<BluesKaj> brb, gonna check
<lordievader> Unlikely in the current state of Ubuntu.
<BluesKaj> still have to use resolved.conf in /etc/systemd ..any added dns settings to /etc/resolv,conf are overwritten with a new default file afaik.
<lordievader> You don't have to use systemd-resolved.
<BluesKaj> lordievader, I tried without any DNS settings in /etc/systemd/esolved.conf...no internet, with DNS  settings ther ei have internet
<BluesKaj> ei =is
<lordievader> Of course you need/want DNS. However, there are other resolvers besides systemd-networkd.
<lordievader> Err, systemd-resolved.
<BluesKaj> i need DNS
<BluesKaj> no NM
<lordievader> Adding a nameserver to `/etc/resolv.conf` is enough for me.
<BluesKaj>  /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten here
<lordievader> Likely by systemd-resolved. But like I said, it ain't necesary. Not in my case, anyhow.
<BluesKaj> I tried /etc/resolv.conf with a nameserver and commented my dns settings in /etc/systemd/resolved which resulted in no internet connection and the dns settings added to /etc/resolv.conf settings being removed/overwritten
<BluesKaj> my /etc/resolv.conf file name font is in italics ..what does that imply ?
<BluesKaj> ahh properties says the file points to ./run/systemd/resolve/stub-resolv.conf
<lordievader> Yes, normally it is a symlink to somewhere.
<BluesKaj> yup it'sa justa link
<lordievader> But since my server doesn't need a dynamic dns config I made a flat file of it.
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/11/new-intel-amd-processor
<immu> lotuspsychje, good night laa
<immu> how are u doing
<lotuspsychje> great you?
<lotuspsychje> immu: still on manjaro?
<immu> no, on Solus lotuspsychje
<immu> u
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> xenial and artful
<immu> ok
<immu> why what happened? lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> what?
<el> lotuspsychje: so fun fact that was the onion spammer and reason we're stuck +r. you might be he subject of spam now so please please please refrain from reacting to it or it'll encourage him more.
<lotuspsychje> el: your the first to inform us that
<el> el: because now is the first time that it is approprate to.
<lotuspsychje> i see
<el> if i had told you sooner one of you have called him a troll and got spammed about. if he's not currently blowing up, removing him results in spam.
<el> the only reason to remove him if he's blowing up, like now
<lotuspsychje> el: i never encouraged him by the way..im just doing support like i always do
<el> lotuspsychje: i know i'm just warning you that you might be targetted please don't feed back
<lotuspsychje> allrighty :p he can always try
<nacc> el: thanks for the info
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Brightens our day :)
<lotuspsychje> !info vim-youcompleteme
<ubot5> vim-youcompleteme (source: vim-youcompleteme): fast, as-you-type, fuzzy-search code completion engine for Vim. In component universe, is optional. Version 0+20161219+git194ff33-1 (artful), package size 110 kB, installed size 384 kB
<TJ-> ha! I've got a bug bothering me! surprise surprise! How you guys?
<lotuspsychje> perhaps the #vim guys know more about that
<lotuspsychje> never tested that myself
<lotuspsychje> want me to test something with it TJ- ?
<lotuspsychje> im on xenial
<TJ-> It's an Ubuntu thing! first thing is the wrong python version is being used (2.7 instead of 3.x) that causes tons of error messages in vim the moment I type anything at all. Then after finding how to tell Y.C.M. to use python3 via a .vimrc option... nothing happens at all! as in no errors (Yay!) but no auto-complete either. Tried it in an LXD container for 17.10 and it works but in a 16.04 container
<TJ-> it fails the same
<TJ-> I know it doesn't work - I was hoping I'd find someone more familiar with it that fixed the issue. No bug reports filed about in LP, big issues about 16.04 python2 in the Y.C.M. github issue tracker, but nothing via search-engines about it not showing any autocomplete and I cannot figure out how to enable debug logging!
<nacc> TJ-: afaict, it depends on python3 (and not python2), so it's ratherr buggy if it's using pytho2
<TJ-> aha!
<TJ-> nacc: yes, I've applied the fix for that in .vimrc "let g:ycm_server_python_interpreter = '/usr/bin/python3' "
<nacc> TJ-: hrm, intneresting so maybe it's a setting thing?
<TJ-> aha! "vim -V9" helps! --> ImportError: dynamic module does not define module export function (PyInit_ycm_core)
<TJ-> nacc: i'm testing in a fresh 16.04 container to ensure my own  vim customisations aren't an issue
<nacc> TJ-: ack
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vim-youcompleteme/+bug/1538532 this?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1538532 in ycmd (Ubuntu) "Broken in Xenial, vim requires python3 now" [High,Fix released]
<TJ-> No; that was a different problem. The packages were being built against python2 not python3. This new issue is due to there being run-time bugs not fixed by building against python3
<TJ-> Bug #1730731
<ubot5> bug 1730731 in vim-youcompleteme (Ubuntu) "[16.04] no autocomplete and multiple errors due to not using python3 as the default interpreter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1730731
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: there's a neovim snap on xenial also, perhaps test there?
<immu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoStTPLpuRw
<immu> any where i can get HD audio for this ComeWhat May?
<nicomachus> immu: rutracker.org
<immu> its in russian
<nicomachus> yea. translate the page or just find the search box
<immu> ok
<TJ-> Figured it out. The package maintainer doesn't know what they're doing! They rebuilt the package against Python3 but didn't update the Python extension module (ycm_core.so) to use the new Python 3 module loading requirement, which is to have an entry function PyInit_<modulename>() . So, entire package useless in 16.04
<nacc> TJ-: well, to be honest, i'd diff the corresponding upload to debiann and ubuntu
<nacc> ubuntu moved head of debainn in xenial
<nacc> and i wonder if it was a buggy backport
<nacc> TJ-: if you file a bug, i can take a look
<TJ-> nacc: as above ^^
<TJ-> Bug #1730731
<ubot5> bug 1730731 in vim-youcompleteme (Ubuntu) "[16.04] no autocomplete and multiple errors due to not using python3 interpreter or extension calling conventions" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1730731
<nacc> TJ-: thanks
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all
<Bashing-om> !esm
<ubot5> Canonical offers paid extended security support for 12.04 through the Ubuntu Advantage program. For more information, see https://ubuntu.com/esm . ESM is not an Ubuntu community offering; please direct questions about it to Canonical directly.
<oerheks> good, not connected to the internet, one problem less to worry about
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-08
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning Sveta
<ducasse> good morning!
<ducasse> hi lotus \o
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> hi lordievader, how's life?
 * ducasse brings lordievader a steaming hot cup of coffee
<lordievader> Doing okay here. Just noticed I miss a usb soundcard driver
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lordievader> Ah, thanks :)
<lordievader> Problem solved :)
<ducasse> all good here, finally finished moving all the google auth keys, banking stuff etc over to the new phone, so now it's actually useful :)
<lordievader> I moved my banking over to my phone last week.
<lordievader> Quite handy.
<ducasse> yep, it is. fortunately my bank lets me heavily limit what is possible via mobile, which makes me feel a bit better about it.
<lordievader> I heared a talk from my banking the other week were they advocated that their mobile app was more secure than their website.
<ducasse> possibly, it still feels good to know it's definitely not my problem if somebody manages to get a larger amount of money out of it :)
<ducasse> i've been trying to help my elderly neighbors get a grip on online banking, as it would be really helpful to them. i think the whole 'material design' thing is very confusing to them, they have no idea what they can click and what they can't etc.
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<ducasse> morning, lotus!
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
 * ducasse brings more coffee :)
<lotuspsychje> yay
<ducasse> jeez, so many updates on arch...
<lotuspsychje> online banking via mobile i dont like
<ducasse> the way i have things set up it can be very practical, but i still use the normal website for lots of stuff, though.
<ducasse> how was your holiday btw, lotuspsychje?
<lotuspsychje> great ducasse tnx
<ducasse> go anywhere?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: had the chance to paint house some more
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah we did some relaxing too, shopping nearby city
<ducasse> finished with the business room?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the painting part yes
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: still need more lil jobs around the house
<ducasse> we'll want pictures when it's all done :)
<lotuspsychje> you can count on it :p
<oerheks> yes, and pancakes
<ducasse> \o  oerheks
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<oerheks> morning guys :-)
<lotuspsychje> now 7 weeks work then 3 weeks xmass holiday
<lotuspsychje> https://twitter.com/ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu all about Iot now
<ducasse> lots of openstack stuff - *yawn*
<lotuspsychje> yeah big yawn
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje , oerheks . How are you guys?
<lotuspsychje> great here lordievader
<lotuspsychje> on the train lordievader ?
<lordievader> Good to hear :)
<lordievader> Nope.
<lordievader> No need to go by train to work anymore ;)
<lordievader> <10min on bike.
<oerheks> hmmm https://it.slashdot.org/story/17/11/07/232234/flaw-crippling-millions-of-crypto-keys-is-worse-than-first-disclosed
 * ducasse puts fingers in ears
<ducasse> la-la-la-la-i-can't-hear-you!
 * oerheks puts fingers in ducasses nose 
<oerheks> la-la-la-la-you-cannot-smell-me!
<oerheks>  146 not upgraded... run sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
<ducasse> not updated in a while, or are you on bionic?
<oerheks> mister packet
<ducasse> oh, right. yes, but how to get him updated with a busted apt/python? :)
<oerheks> pip .. dunno :-(
<ducasse> i'm not familiar enough with pip/python to dig him out of this hole, i'm afraid
<lordievader> What is the issue?
<ducasse> https://pastebin.com/K6QrYjfR
<lordievader> That is a syntax error on python-samba's part.
<lordievader> Unless necesarry, I'd remove the package.
<ducasse> ok, let's try... thanks.
<lotuspsychje> !info python-samba xenial
<ubot5> python-samba (source: samba): Python bindings for Samba. In component main, is optional. Version 2:4.3.11+dfsg-0ubuntu0.16.04.11 (xenial), package size 968 kB, installed size 7952 kB
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<ducasse> hi, BluesKaj - wb
<ducasse> all going well?
<BluesKaj> hi ducasse, yes, all good here, how about you?
<ducasse> all good, thanks - playing with my new phone, moving stuff over from the old one etc. new toys are always good :)
<ducasse> fine-tuned my backups setup, so i can sleep even better ;)
<BluesKaj> ducasse, which new phone ?
<ducasse> BluesKaj: moto g5 - cheap, but good enough for me.
<ducasse> seems alternate roms etc generally are made available for these devices, which hasn't always been the case with my previous phones
<BluesKaj> heh ducasse , i paid 100bucks cdn for my alcatel mini :-)
<leftyfb> BluesKaj: pretty sure it's just a troll
<BluesKaj> yup, not a female either
<leftyfb> yup
 * nacc is 99% sure there is a memory leak in firefox now (artful)
<nacc> RSS spikes up to 2G and it becomes relatively unusable
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver-daily-builds-now-available-to-download-518451.shtml
<lotuspsychje> yayy
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :) .. imagine your presence at this time of your day .
<lotuspsychje> brb dinner :p
<lotuspsychje> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/pending/
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic beaver
<ubot5> 'beaver' is not a valid distribution: artful, artful-backports, artful-proposed, bionic, bionic-backports, bionic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, stable, testing, trusty, trusty-backports, trusty-proposed, unstable, utopic, utopic-backports, utopic-proposed, vivid, vivid-backports, vivid-proposed, wily, wily-backports, wily-proposed, xenial, xenial-backports, x
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.13.0.16.17 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic zesty
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.10.0.38.38 (zesty), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<lotuspsychje> dax: too early to fill in 18.04 daily's?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: still early for the kernel to move, i thinnk
<lotuspsychje> ah tnx nacc
<lotuspsychje> nacc: thats why its in pending?
<lotuspsychje> wb ducasse
<nacc> lotuspsychje: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<nacc> lotuspsychje: you just happened to be looking at pending?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: pending is, well, the pending one
<ducasse> hiya lotuspsychje, been out for a while
<lotuspsychje> ah
<dax> lotuspsychje: nice, been waiting for those
<lotuspsychje> dax: your welcome
<nacc> still no cloud images, though :/
<dax> topic'd
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<nacc> (e.g. lxc launch ubuntu-daily:bionic)
<lotuspsychje> hey pauljw
<pauljw> hi lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> dax: do we have a trigger that refers to this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuUpdates ? (to tell users to keep their system up to date)
<dax> !search UbuntuUpdates
<ubot5> None found
<immu> hi all
<lotuspsychje> hi
<immu> so one is awake thats lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> fts: hi
<lotuspsychje> bbl movietime
<lordievader> Hey immu
<immu> hye lordievader
<immu> whats upo
<lordievader> Doing good here
<lordievader> Playing a bit with mopidy
<immu> mopidy?
<daftykins> https://www.mopidy.com/
<immu> cool
<immu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_6NKlnc3Yg i want a super HD audio file for this song
<immu> my fav
<immu> lordievader,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_6NKlnc3Yg
 * Bashing-om away for  spell .
<TJ-> Bashing-om is a magician?
<Bashing-om> Only in those rare moments :)
<lordievader> immu: ?
<immu> lordievader, Moulin Rouge - https://youtu.be/5pzwj2THU8U
<lordievader> Why are you sending me that?
<ducasse> immu: what exactly do you mean by 'hd audio'?
<immu> HD good quality
<ducasse> and what do you call 'are you talking 44.1khz flac or what?
<lordievader> Pff, 44.1kHz :P
<ducasse> *and what do you call 'hd'?
<lordievader> And 16bit I suppose ;)
<ducasse> lordievader: that's why i ask :)
<lordievader> I know, I'm just kidding around.
<immu> i am not sure, but what would be classed as HD ? for audio?
<ducasse> depends on who you're talking to
<lordievader> For most people 44.1kHz/16bit is more than enough.
<lordievader> Others find 192kHz/24bit lacking....
<ducasse> if you want cd quality, there are plenty of places that will sell you lossless flac tracks of the soundtrack for moulin rouge, or get a cd somewhere and rip it yourself
<immu> its being ages that i have ripped a CD i will check google music or someting
<immu> what is good for linux
<ducasse> good for ripping cds?
<daftykins> i much prefer ripping from CD, i do it all the time for a client
<daftykins> Exact Audio Copy configured for max reliability of the end result :D
<lordievader> I had to rip a CD last week... had to boot up an old laptop which still had a cd-drive.
<daftykins> :) i have one in my file server, just stroll upstairs then RDP to it to rip
<immu> i wonder if i would find a cd for it or not will check tho
<kostkon> the moulin rouge ost is on spotify and deezer, among others
<lordievader> Amazon has lots of CD's ;)
<lordievader> daftykins: My fileserver's sata ports are filled with drives.
<daftykins> heh :P mine are on mines controller card :D
<immu> do you have that track in your archines
<kostkon> immu, you could, ahem, download the whole album, somehow
<immu> yeah i know
<kostkon> immu, that exact track included
<immu> good nite all
<lordievader> Sleep well immu
 * Bashing-om Back on the job and getting caught up :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-09
<TJ-> !ram
<ubot5> If you are wondering why some tools report your system has very little free memory, have a look at http://www.linuxatemyram.com/
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: did your xenial work out the other day?
<Ben64> still got some playing around to do with themes
<Ben64> was editing them by hand for a couple hrs today :|
<lotuspsychje> Ben64: wich DE did you choose?
<Ben64> and still haven't been able to get windows in qemu to take my passthrough'd gpu
<Ben64> gnome-flashback
<lotuspsychje> cool
<Ben64> grabbing qemu stuff from artful repo
<Ben64> i'm breaking all the rules over here
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Ben64> took nvidia driver out of initramfs so i can grab the 2nd gpu before nvidia does
<lotuspsychje> im gonna start testing beaver soon
<Ben64> bought a rx 560 for passthrough today
<lotuspsychje> nice
<Ben64> might have more luck with that
<Ben64> apparently nvidia drivers try to detect vm and stop it
<lotuspsychje> hmm didnt know that
<Ben64> all so i can run like 3 windows apps
<lotuspsychje> wich ones
<Ben64> fusion 360, maya, unity3d
<lotuspsychje> aha
<Ben64> maya and unity3d have linux versions but they're not quite as polished
<lotuspsychje> i hear blender did alot of bugging out recently
<Ben64> i never could get the hang of blender
<EriC^^> morning all
<Ben64> hey
<EriC^^> hey Ben64
<Alsophila1> Hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi Alsophila1
<Alsophila1> I'm going to die...
<Alsophila1> After upgrading my Ubuntu to 17.10...
<Alsophila1> I can't create any project in Eclipse...
<EriC^^> create or save?
<Alsophila1> Only can I choose General and CVS
<Alsophila1> My JDT and CDT all did not work...
<EriC^^> did you try reinstalling eclipse?
<Alsophila> Yes but useless...
<Alsophila> When I open an existing project... It called mousepad for me to edit my file...
<Alsophila> As if it doesn't have an editor...
<Alsophila> I wonder if I should burn another Ubuntu installer USB stick...
<EriC^^> Alsophila: fresh installing is nicer anyways
<EriC^^> go for it
<Alsophila> Oh...  My collected software...
<ducasse> good morning!
<EriC^^> morning ducasse o/
<ducasse> \o EriC^^ - up early?
<EriC^^> yup :)
<EriC^^> how are you doing?
<ducasse> a bit tired, didn't sleep much - otherwise good, thanks :) all well with you?
<EriC^^> good here, didn't sleep much myself either, i think my neighbors had a birthday party or something, til about 5am
<EriC^^> xD
<ducasse> oh, that's always fun :-/ luckily both my neighbors are well into their 80s, so not much noise here :)
<lordievader> Good morning
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> morning lordievader
<ducasse> wb lordievader, how's life?
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^ ducasse
<lordievader> Doing good here
<lordievader> How are you guys?
<EriC^^> lordievader: good here thanks, you?
<lordievader> ^, hihihi
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/arch-linux-officially-kills-32-bit-support-migrate-to-arch-linux-32-fork-now-518452.shtml
<ducasse> good morning lotuspsychje :)
<ducasse> work today?
<jink> Work EVERY DAY
<jink> Because pay checks and bills.
<ducasse> don't talk about bills this early :(
<jink> YOU STARTED IT
<Ben64> monodevelop saying it doesn't know what IEnumerator is now...
<ducasse> Ben64: did you get the theme thing sorted out?
<Ben64> mostly
<Ben64> really frustrating doing theme stuff
<Ben64> dunno if its a gnome thing or an ubuntu thing
<Ben64> yay IEnumerator exists again
<Ben64> had to install mono-reference-assemblies-2.0 mono-reference-assemblies-3.5
<Ben64> all the little problems that come up is why i like LTS
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hiya, lotus \o
<ducasse> all well today?
<lotuspsychje> yeah fine mate, chilling before WORK lol
<ducasse> sssh, don't say that word ;)
<lotuspsychje> KILL BILLS
<jink> O__o
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lordievader> hey BluesKaj (IRC)
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hi lordievader, fine here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here.
<lordievader> Moved from riot to Weechat.
<BluesKaj> still use the reliable old Konversation
<BluesKaj> prefer a gui for irc, easier for these old eyes. I'll use irssi in the vt/tty if needed, but otherwise Konversation is my choice
<BluesKaj> lordievader, I just read about Riot, it looks like an interesting irc client, why did you switch?
<lordievader> It is not an IRC client, it is a Matrix client. Though you can do your IRC via Matrix.
<lordievader> Weechat has a Matrix plugin. I like a cli client more than running half a Web browser as a chat client.
<BluesKaj> ok
<BluesKaj> lordievader, this guy like to have his hand held if you let him, he's lazy
<lordievader> I know.
<lordievader> Quite lazy.
<ducasse> i think it's ignore time in loonyville...
<BluesKaj> hehe, yeah
<ducasse> "i don't understand what this is, but i need to get rid of it because it's spying on me!"
<BluesKaj> paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep :-)
<BluesKaj> Neil Young
<pauljw> i thought that was CSN
<pauljw> my bad, you're right.  it was Buffalo Springfield w/Neil Young... :)
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw , you aren't bad, just mistaken :-)
<pauljw> :)
<BluesKaj> I wasa wrong as well, Stephen Stills wrote the song, "Forwhat it'
<BluesKaj> s worth"
<pauljw> ah, and i'd bet CSN has performed it more than once, hence my thinking it was theirs.
<BluesKaj> all these yrs i thought Neil Young wrote it ...too bad my musiclologist pal passed last yr , he would have straightened me out on that one ... he was amazing
<pauljw> :)
<tgm4883> nacc: I'm not even sure I understand that logic..... "I've always used iirc when I want to talk about irc. I didn't know I could just type irc to mean irc"
<nacc> tgm4883: :)
<TJ-> nooo, you misunderstand, iirc == irritating internet relay chat :)
<nacc> lol
<lordievader> :)
<nacc> what is wrong with the channel today??
<nicomachus> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<lordievader> nacc (IRC): What do you mean?
<nacc> lordievader: just crazy right now ... totally random offtopic requests
<nacc> "how do I make it so root can't see what I do on a system"?
<nicomachus> lol
<nicomachus> I'm not even bothering today nacc
<lordievader> Ah, #ubuntu? Glad I'm not in there.
<nacc> lordievader: yeah
<daftykins> <Morpheus mode> it's always been this way, you're just seeing it for the first time
<daftykins> </The Matrix>
<nicomachus> daftykins: here's a fun riddle for you
<nicomachus> why would my Amazon Echo ping 'www.example.com', 'www.example.org', and 'www.example.net' on both IPv4 and IPv6 every 5 minutes on the dot?
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> i daren't hazard a guess for such silly gimmicky devices (:
<nicomachus> https://i.imgur.com/CUZ79wu.png
<nicomachus> Apparently Amazon doesn't even know.
<nicomachus> "This is just the network logs being sent to improve connectivity."
<nicomachus> "This will take time to send all the logs once all the logs will be sent it will automatically silent. As often it will ping as soon it will be resolved."
<nicomachus> "So higher frequency of the pings means that your network connectivity is being strong much sooner."
<nicomachus> Just.... what.
<daftykins> sounds like online support chat? :)
<nicomachus> Yeppppp
<nicomachus> I asked for a native English speaker after that because I had no idea what that guy was trying to say.
<daftykins> yeah they're dirty liars
<nicomachus> got a new person, just as bad with English. Told me they'd look into it and get in touch within 24-48 hours.
<nicomachus> meanwhile, I'm just blacklisting the domain through pihole I guess. And a few of their metric domains. :D
<daftykins> gotta love big company support
<oerheks> yay, new LSHW .. lshw_02.18-0.1ubuntu3.1_amd64.deb
<oerheks> lets see if i have new hardware too
<daftykins> :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-10
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<oerheks> heya lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: early or late?
<oerheks> cannot sleep, again..
<oerheks> reading the news, if no-one filed a sexual complaint, you mean nothing in Hollywood
<lotuspsychje> easzero: welcome
<lotuspsychje> !info jupyter
<ubot5> Package jupyter does not exist in artful
<EriC^^> morning all
<oerheks> heya eric
<EriC^^> hey oerheks
<oerheks> new Star Wars-trilogy comming, without those silly Skywalkers \0/
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> i never liked starwars
<lotuspsychje> did you check jungle 2017 EriC^^
<EriC^^> nope saw the trailer
<EriC^^> scary shit
<lotuspsychje> based on real story lol
<lotuspsychje> gonna watch it also
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> google banned like 4 accounts for me
<EriC^^> i even made the robot take 4mins between each move he does, woke up to a banned account
<lotuspsychje> yeah you said that
<oerheks> :-(
<lotuspsychje> their pretty smart
<EriC^^> the problem is that they want a phone number for new accounts
<lotuspsychje> they got much time at google, after a swim in their pool
<EriC^^> yeah, how'd they figure out the last one though, it literally is making a comment every 30mins or more
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> when i spammed the fuck out of them, i got 400 pages retrieved in like 6hours
<EriC^^> i have to spam them
<EriC^^> xD
<lotuspsychje> lol
<ducasse> good morning all
<immu> ducasse, good morning
<immu> hey anyone running untiy7 on 17.10?
<immu> unity7
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse & immu
<immu> lotuspsychje, hey all
<ducasse> brrr, so cold :(
<immu> how many as asked before are thinking or at least trying to set Unity7 on ubuntu1.10 :)
<immu> *17.10
<immu> hey eric
<jink> Silly GUI morons. :P
<immu> jink meaning
<immu> i don't think you have any idea of how good Unity7 is
<immu> i am going to run unity7 on17.10 and report bugs for eventual support in 18.04
<lordievader> Good morning
<EriC^^> hey immu
<immu> hey how do u doing
<immu> u prayed your friday prayers
<EriC^^> i'm christian (technically) and agnostic in reality
<lotuspsychje> not unity on artful here
<EriC^^> i recently learned how to make tortillas
<EriC^^> it's so easy
<lotuspsychje> how are you lordievader
<EriC^^> i think i dreamt at night about making some
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> lotuspsychje (IRC): Doing good here, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> mycroft make tortilla
<EriC^^> haha
<lotuspsychje> great here
<EriC^^> when will it happen!
<lotuspsychje> soon :p
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> IOT is comming to us
<ducasse> EriC^^: oh - can you give me the link to that pizza video you were talking about? i've been having homemade pizza urges lately :)
<EriC^^> ducasse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCAPjIVOdJw
<EriC^^> about the tortilla's i found 2 insanely easily and quick to make recipes
<ducasse> EriC^^: brilliant, thank you kind sir!
<EriC^^> get tortilla bread, put hot dog in it, wrap it, put a tooth pick, fry it in oil on both sides, put some ketchup and mustard in a bowl and dip in it and eat
<jink> immu: I just don't care for GUIs.  I don't usually run Ubuntu Desktop (Server only).  And it's easy flamebait. :>
<EriC^^> it's delicious, then for desert, get a tortilla bread, put nutella on it, put a banana in it and wrap it and eat
<EriC^^> takes like 5mins to make them both, and it's very good
<EriC^^> ducasse: no problem!
<immu> your choice jink as you like it
<ducasse> jink: no x server at all, just tty?
<jink> ducasse: I run Windows, mostly.  Company policy.  And on a VPS, it makes no sense to run X.
<EriC^^> even at home you're not allowed to run linux?
<lordievader> Auch, Windows.
<EriC^^> (that might sound stupider than i think it sounded)
<jink> lordievader: Ssssst.
<jink> EriC^^: I don't own a computer.  Just my work laptop.
<immu> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/unity-7-continuation-call-for-developers-and-supporters/736/5
<EriC^^> jink: oh
<jink> EriC^^: No offence taken, btw. :)
<ducasse> jink: oh, no - that's pretty obvious, i'd say. so you _do_ use a gooey - windows.
<jink> ducasse: :P
<immu> we need windows for certain things
<ducasse> jink: all you need is a tty and tmux :-P
<immu> and its better to have a backup
<immu> brb
<immu> after an hour mate
<jink> Last time I used X was some 15-20 years ago, fvwm 1 on FreeBSD. :P
<jink> immu: Take your time.  I'll be here for at least another 8 hours.
<lordievader> ducasse (IRC): You mean ssh and tmux ;)
<immu> sure all
<ducasse> lordievader: not necessarily, no :)
<jink> ducasse: It's screen, since I haven't made the move to tmux, yet, but sure.  That'll work.
<ducasse> jink: i loved fvwm, kept using 1.24r for years and years
<jink> :D
<jink> Light, fast, awesome.
<jink> On Windows I use Cygwin, and I bound a terminal to a hotkey.  Then ssh from there to wherever, and command-line perl awk shell, the works.
<lordievader> No Bash on Windows (or however it is called).
<lordievader> ?
<ducasse> is that wsl (windows subsystem for linux), or is that a different beast?
<lordievader> Oh, yeah. That's the one.
<jink> lordievader: Windows 7, so, not yet.  Well, Cygwin bash, but not "native".
<lordievader> Ah, I see.
<jink> https://i.imgur.com/iAuvvCY.jpg
<Sveta> https://askubuntu.com/questions/559060/fast-pdf-reader-that-remembers-the-last-viewed-page
<Sveta> someone nom it for a bounty or something?
<Sveta> i'm personally looking for a pdf viewer with continuous scrolling that remembers the last page that i opened, and is not okular or evince.  mupdf does not have continuous scrolling.
<Sveta> so it's similar to that question, but i also need continuous scrolling..
<immu> yo amigos
<jink> 'sup immu? :)
<immu> back
<immu> jink, how u doing
<immu> hi ducasse EriC^^ have your seen bluecasse
<jink> Fine, at work. :)
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<jink> Hi BluesKaj.
<BluesKaj> Hey lordievader, jink
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<jink> . Â· o ( is het al weekend? )
<ducasse> g'morning BluesKaj \o
<BluesKaj> fine here, some snow and cold , wintery , how about you, lordievader
<BluesKaj> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> Rain.... further more, doing good.
<EriC^^> hi immu
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw
<pauljw> hey BluesKaj :)
<BluesKaj> got an arctic blast here last night
<pauljw> :) same here, was 53F last evening and woke up to 27F this morning... brrr...
<BluesKaj> bright sunshine and clear cold air
<BluesKaj> the cold to a certain point doen't bother me much
<EriC^^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<oerheks> Hi EriC^^
<oerheks> please be save, S.A. is crazy
<EriC^^> hi oerheks
<oerheks> i am looking at a special bike, silly pricing, bicycle for a wheelchair .. https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/fietsen-en-brommers/fietsen-bakfietsen/m1223114177-bakfiets-rolstoelfiets-van-raam.html
<BluesKaj> where are the bike's control/handlebars to steer it
<nacc> BluesKaj: first pciture is disassembled, it seems
<nacc> BluesKaj: it's a nnormal fiet
<nacc> BluesKaj: so directly abovd behind the platform/ramp
<nacc> *above and behind
<nacc> relative to the front of the bike
<nacc> 3/9 is a better view
<BluesKaj> yeah, but that's out of kilter to my eye
<nacc> only in the first photo
<nacc> (at least, to me)
<nacc> oerheks: pretty impressive :)
<oerheks> Yes, the steering bar needs some work
<oerheks> but the rest is sound, he says
<oerheks> i don' t need it, but i think i can make someone happy, else i buy it myself.
<oerheks> this one is 6 years old or so, new ones look like this.. https://www.vanraam.com/nl-nl/onze-fietsen/rolstoelfietsen
<BluesKaj> yeah, that's more practical for the driver
<TJ-> Recall I reported at the beginning of the Linux v4.14 development cycle that AMD adding sme_me_mask (for Secure Encrypted Memory) into the memory-manager sub-system brokke many modules because it caused any module using PAGE_TABLE to pull in the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL symbol - this broke nvidia and many other out-of-tree non-GPL drivers. I reported this upstream but Thomas Gleixner, the sub-system
<TJ-> maintiainer, refused to change it. Well, at the last minute (after v4.14rc8 and before final, it's been fixed in commit 87df26175e67c26ccdd3a002fbbb8cde78e28a19 ... but I noticed in the commit sign-offs: "Despised-by: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>"  :D
<TJ-> So disaster averted at the 11th hour
<nacc> heh that sounds like tglx to me
<daftykins> why'd that fool want to intentionally maintain something causing so much breakage?
<TJ-> It was the EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL being pulled in via (a very common) use of PAGE_TABLE macros. Inadvertently, but painfully. Linus comments in the commit message that the symbol ought to be in lower layers to prevent it propogating into drivers from the memory-manager, but for now the symbol has been made EXPORT_SYMBOL.
<nacc> daftykins: tglx, ime, does not care about out of tree stuff
<nacc> most kernel devs don't
<nacc> (speaking as a former kernel dev)
<TJ-> indeed, and to a great extent I agree with him. What I don't agree on is creating a new GPL symbol that is relied on by lots of existing core code, causing regressions.
<nacc> yeah
<nacc> also that may or may not be entirely legit
<nacc> depends on your interp. of the GPL and whether you get some entanglement there
<nacc> while not changing the exposed licensure of an existing symbol, it in effect does :)
<TJ-> As far as nvidia goes the legal analysis is identical to the ZFS issue
<nacc> yeah
<TJ-> you've got a body of existing code with it's own existing stable API. Then you create a shim that translates that API to the kernel's API, and the shim is GPL licensed
<TJ-> The argument that the existing stable (non Linux, non GPL) code behind the external API is a derivative of Linux is obviously not true. Where the arguments arise is that the shim is a derivative (and correctly licensed as GPL) but is called from non GPL code which, the argument goes, is also a derivative.
<nacc> yeah its' about the limits of the virality
<TJ-> I don't agree with Canonical very often (or they don't agree with me!) but from a long time back my legal advice, and my own analysis, says the derivation does not carry into pre-existing separate body of code - -especially in cases like Nvidia and ZFS where that code is cross-platform and not derived from Linux.
<nacc> yeah
<nacc> that's my understanding as well
<TJ-> on another topic, some fab hackers have got full JTAG debuf access to the Intel CSME at last. So visibility into the southbridge MINIX OS and I wouldn't be surprised if it leads to a way to completely replace the OS on the southbridge at some point
<daftykins> :)
<TJ-> Hopefully that plus a reduced EFI (like Google's NERF) will finally allow users/owners to control Rings -2 and -3
<daftykins> technically PCHs not southbridges anymore ;D
<TJ-> It's quite scary realising there's a full network and device stack running and it ain't running on the CPU the user knows about, but on the CPU in the southbridge on the motherboard
<TJ-> true, but the distinction is more helpful :)
<daftykins> :>
<TJ-> north vs south, I think, makes it easier to visualise the separation of concerns
<TJ-> why is there ever a web-server in the MCE anyhow?
<daftykins> bit cringe for the remote control features mmm
<TJ-> For anyone interested (it's an easy read): https://schd.ws/hosted_files/osseu17/84/Replace%20UEFI%20with%20Linux.pdf
 * Bashing-om ready to have fun now :)
<pauljw> hey Bashing-om :)
<Bashing-om> pauljw: \o . Good day ?
<pauljw> mostly Bashing-om, my primary system had a keyboard failure today, using my standby now...
<Bashing-om> pauljw: Backups are good :)
<daftykins> :D
<pauljw> yep
<pauljw> waiting on a quote from sys76 for a replacement...  already have a used one coming from ebay, but it may or may not be in good shape.
<Bashing-om> I use an Old Old commadore mechanical keyboard. would really be a pain to adapt to another .
<pauljw> seems since i switched to laptops only they're all different.  really don't like the sys76 one, chic-let style.
<Bashing-om> pauljw: Being on different keyboards has ruined my typing skills :( getting back out of the habit of watching my fingers - yuk !
<daftykins> still itching to get my hands on that clients kids Lenovo to have a go at repairing
<Bashing-om> sadly, daftykins - I am all caught up .. not even an old box to linux-install and pass along .
<daftykins> d'aww
<Bashing-om> The bright side is that I have the time to devote to the fall chores in readiness for Winter .
<daftykins> that's a bright side!?
<daftykins> :D
<Bashing-om> daftykins: When it comes to repairing a roof, or repairing a computer - the computer time wins every time :)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> oooh yes
<daftykins> hopefully the case part turns up from aliexpress soon
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Living on an island, at the mercy of the "shipping" .
<daftykins> even worse from ali, that's China via the slow boat :D
<daftykins> the option read "15 to 60 days"
<Bashing-om> daftykins: How long does it take you to get to the London aorport ?
<daftykins> ah it's a 45 minute flight typically
<daftykins> depends if you get the jet (fast) or the twin prop
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh you have air servicve on the island ! Wonderful :)
<daftykins> yep, costs a good Â£120 both ways usually though
<daftykins> er as in Â£60 each direction minimum
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Well, even so - sure beats walking :P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> tad soggy and cold this time of year yep :>
<Bashing-om> LOL
<daftykins> the ferry goes to the south coast too, usually Â£40 each way as a passenger only
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Ouch ! They got you by the short hairs :)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i like to think it's a way of keeping the locals at bay
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-11
<JanC> daftykins: 60 days sounds more like "we already sold all planned production for the next month, but we'll send one by boat after that"  ;)
<daftykins> heh, oh it's an old model
<daftykins> just a lid for a Lenovo U330t
<JanC> in that case, possibly they only produce new ones every month or so...
<JanC> or they are in a warehouse without stock-keeping: "you'll get them when our guy accidentally stumbles on one"
<daftykins> it really is just the slowest boat in history i think
<Bashing-om> slow boat from China :)
<daftykins> yip yip
<oerheks> glass iphone in the cold do give issues, lets wait for a better china knock-off
<JanC> an antique sailboat that still makes the detour around Cape of Good Hope?
<JanC> oerheks: it also shatters if you drop it off a table  :)
<oerheks> yes, even on wood
<oerheks> nice review https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/11/07/top-snaps-in-october/
<EriC^> !ping
<ubot5> pong!
<oerheks> oh
<ducasse> good morning!
<oerheks> early birds :-D
<ducasse> oerheks: luna started 'washing' my face 06:30 :)
<immu> hi allll
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<Ben64> !info libfdt1 bionic
<ubot5> libfdt1 (source: device-tree-compiler): Flat Device Trees manipulation library. In component main, is extra. Version 1.4.5-3 (bionic), package size 15 kB, installed size 45 kB
<pauljw> hi everyone
<immu> hi guys
<immu> has any one enabled nvidia drivers on wayland session?
<BluesKaj> immu, nvidia drivers don't support wayland yet, the drivers are under development, but the open source nouveau driver works to some degree, it lacks many features tho
<immu> i think i am nouveau drivers
<immu> but what will happ if your setup nvidia drivers? yeah
<immu> will the x-session will be offerred
<ducasse> you'll get x11, yes
<immu> thank you ducasse :)
<freiyor> hi Ben64
<freiyor> hu chu
<freiyor> hi daftykins
<freiyor> hi ikonia
<freiyor> hi hi phunyguy
<freiyor> hi JanC
<freiyor> hi popey
<freiyor> hi Metacity
<freiyor> hi guntbert
<immu> freiyor, thats to many hi'sss you should save it as a macro if you can
<EriC^^> now that's an entrance!
<pauljw> you should just say 'hi everyone'
<pauljw> hey EriC^^ :)
<EriC^^> hi pauljw :)
<immu> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey immu
<immu> you missed me
<EriC^^> so much
<EriC^^> :P
<freiyor> hi phunyguy
<immu> when you do think, wayland will be ok with nvidia drivers?
<freiyor> hi niffy
<freiyor> hi Dovecat
<immu> i overall feel gnome to be jerky
<freiyor> hi Gilno
<immu> sluggish
<freiyor> hi hi Shipwrek
<freiyor> Snickie !!!!!!!!!!
<freiyor> ROBINBEBE !!!!
<freiyor> do not destroy Japan
<EriC^^> immu: no idea on the wayland stuff, tbh i think im sticking with 16.04 til it goes eol or something
 * EriC^^ unity guy here
<freiyor> KRESKI lines Michelangelo always had.  unto you my own accord he said to me
<freiyor> he did not lie
<EriC^^> ikonia: ^
<freiyor> hello resident
<pauljw> freiyor, i use auto replace in hexchat for things i do repeatedly so for instance '!h' = hi everyone
<freiyor> hello H. G. Wells was actually a time machine made of crab shells and writes story of soul scritorio
<freiyor> now that is not valid for my earth
<freiyor> no
<BluesKaj> hiyas all :-)
<pauljw> hi BluesKaj
<freiyor> technically french law the slightest impetus of any guilt or non guilt is always no guilt.  that is all Japan and me are proving, Meitzu, my good friend
<freiyor> does it work with half price books ?
<freiyor> is mir plug and play and allowed ?
<freiyor> i do believe even Revlon planets do not exist and do not hurt or maime tuna
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
<freiyor> i do believe worms do not have bad fiber protein for Vatican fish
<freiyor> i do believe the power of brujeria and magick can theoretically have a soul and grow a brain
<pauljw> what a maroon...
<BluesKaj> ok we've got a bot troll
<freiyor> you don't like haitian voodoo
<freiyor> i have that smoke
<pauljw> yep
<freiyor> what else we do ?  we are so far from -- purgatory
<freiyor> it is calculation, i am nothing but Galapagos not guilty
<freiyor> i can initiate
<pauljw> gotta love the ignore list...
<freiyor> unto you MY OWN ACCORD, i dd care for you Michelangelo
<freiyor> he gave me gift of color
<freiyor> beyond a shadow of a doubt.  it is benefit in inheritance of freewill no matter what with consitutional.
<BluesKaj> !ops
<ubot5> Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Pici, Myrtti, jrib, Amaranth, tonyyarusso, Nalioth, lamont, CarlK, elky, mneptok, Tm_T, jpds, ikonia, Flannel, genii, wgrant, stdin, h00k, IdleOne, nhandler, Jordan_U, popey, Corey, ocean, cprofitt, djones, Madpilot, gnomefreak, lhavelund, phunyguy, bazhang, chu
<ducasse> this one is particularly pointless...
<freiyor> i do believe that hiroshimas have happened . i do believer all multiplcation cards, if ethical an honest for laws must correct 10*10 flash cards
<freiyor> where Vatican knows
<freiyor> only
<freiyor> for assistance please
<EriC^^> i didn't know Michelangelo used dd, TIL
<pauljw> heheh
<EriC^^> :)
<BluesKaj> random phrases linked together with conjunctions
<BluesKaj> or clauses even
<ducasse> why would anyone want videos to learn how to work with the command line rather than docs?
<ducasse> the youtube generation, i guess...
<ducasse> BluesKaj: wonderful news today - tom waits is coming to norway! \o/
<immu> ducasse, who is tom waits?
<ducasse> is google down again? ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Waits
<immu> ducasse, no google is not down again but i like hearing it from people directly like in real conversation
<immu> EriC^^, are you unity guy? or me
<ducasse> immu: if you don't know who he is it's hard to give you a good answer in a short response.
<immu> ducasse, let him EriC^^ say it ;)
<BenderRodriguez> Is Ubuntu abandoning the desktop?
<immu> BenderRodriguez, nope they are outsourcing it
<BenderRodriguez> really?!
<BenderRodriguez> to whom
<immu> to gnome :)
<BenderRodriguez> that's a shame
<BenderRodriguez> so the ubuntu developers are being put on the cloud/enterrpise stuff then right
<BenderRodriguez> it seems they're pivoting hard towards Red Hat's business model
<BenderRodriguez> and moving away from consumer OS
<BenderRodriguez> that's depressing
<immu> not really
<immu> its a good thing
<immu> but i do miss unity7 , its the best desktop GUI
<immu> BenderRodriguez, wait i will post why unity7 was stopped
<immu> BenderRodriguez, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/10/why-did-ubuntu-drop-unity-mark-shuttleworth-explains
<immu> ducasse, is 16.04 supported till end of 2021 right?
<ducasse> not the end, april
<immu> till release of 19.08
<immu> *18.04
<ducasse> no, 18.04 comes next year
<BluesKaj> ducasse, heh, Tom Waits, " I'd rather have a bottle in front of me rather than a frontal lobotomy "
<ducasse> BluesKaj: his voice sounds like he's had quite a few bottles in front of him, with accompanying cigarettes :)
<BluesKaj> yeah, and the alcohol keeps him sane
<ducasse> but only on the verge, i think
<ducasse> he's created some fantastic stuff, though - mule variations is amazing
<BluesKaj> he's one of those songwriers who should stick to writing songs rather than singing them
<BluesKaj> songwriters
<BluesKaj> IMO :-)
<ducasse> i really can't agree with that :)
<BluesKaj> heh, I figured you might disagree
<ducasse> i'll be walking through fire for a ticket when they go on sale, don't care what they cost :)
<ducasse> i don't think he's been here since 1985
<immu> has anyone installed unity on 17.10 and lived to live the tale.....
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-11-12
<ducasse> good morning
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Good day :)
<ducasse> hi Bashing-om, how are you today? had a good session? :)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: I am well . A bit aggravated that I was not able to start my chainsaw this day :( . Tge session has been lively .. A couple of issues elsewhere that I am dithering on how to proceed . A copuple that have been resolved . good session .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: got news yesterday that tom waits is finally coming to play a concert here next year, so i've been pretty ecstatic since :) what was wrong with the chainsaw? i'm putting up a feeder for the birds today, provide some entertainment and easy meals for luna ;)
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Music festival ! .. chainsaw to be determined ,,, has not hit a lick .. fuel ?? spark plug ?? will mess about and see what I can do ,
<Bashing-om> Anyway, enough - headed to bed .. good nite all \o
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj - wb :)
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, thanks, how's it going?
<ducasse> good, thanks - and you? just making lunch here, before getting on with some chores...
<BluesKaj> doing fine here, morning coffee as usual :-)
