#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-21
<falktx> abogani2: u there?
<abogani2> falktx: yeah
<falktx> abogani2: well, u removed the lowlatency kernel
<falktx> abogani2: from lucid
<falktx> abogani2: what's wrong?
<abogani2> falktx: Nothing I'm updating it.
<falktx> abogani2: oh, ok
<falktx> abogani2: but did you needed to delete it ?
<abogani2> falktx: Yes PPA is stupid.
<falktx> abogani2: the v33 realtime has a problem
<falktx> abogani2: it asks for a package that is not installable
<abogani2> falktx: WHat package?
<falktx> abogani2: linux-realtime-headers-2.6.33-23
<falktx> abogani2: it's not installable (ie, not avilable)
<abogani2> falktx: Ok. I'll fix it in next days.
<falktx> abogani2: i have fixed it in my ppa by adding a dummy/empty package
<abogani2> falktx: Maverick or Lucid?
<falktx> abogani2: lucid
<abogani2> falktx: Ok thanks!
<falktx> abogani2: i didnt test any maverick stuff yet
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-22
<falktx> hi guys
<falktx> none of the abogani's kernels installs now
<falktx> not the lowlatency or realtime
<jussi> falktx: you need to talk to him about that...
<falktx> i did
<falktx> first abogani removed the lowlatency kernel
<falktx> i ask him why, he said he needed to do cleanup on the ppa
<falktx> the lowlatency is there now, but the headers file are installable
<falktx> same thing for realtime
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-23
<ScottL> i talked to the debian maintainer of rakarrak about getting the new release into debian before debianimportfree
<ScottL> i think he did it...yay1
<ScottL> !
<holstein> w00t
<ScottL> holstein, he might not have tested it as well as he could have :/ but apparently its in debian
<holstein> its progress
<holstein> wish we could get them straight from transmogrifox
<ScottL> if was motu i could :)  i suppose i will eventually work towards that, but probably not while i'm project lead
<falktx> hi guys
<falktx> does ubuntustudio still has that networkmanager bug?
<falktx> 10.04 i mean
<falktx> ?
 * abogani2 ever doesn't know about it...
<falktx> i think it's this one:
<falktx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/570828
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 570828 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "gnome-network-admin on UbuntuStudio doesnt allow to configure either wired networks or wireless" [High,Triaged]
<abogani2> gnome-network-admin != networkmanager
<falktx> yeah... i don't always remember the names...
<falktx> anyway, i have disabled the "disable-interfaces" patch and send it to my ppa
<falktx> not sure if useful
<scott-work> falktx: i saw what you type earlier about the network bug
<scott-work> i've been trying to get the person who touched the disable_interface patch to remove the patch but he's been too busy to consider it :(
<falktx> scott-work: it doesn't work
<falktx> scott-work: removing the patch causes FTBFS
<scott-work> falktx: really?  how weird!
<falktx> scott-work: i can give the log
<falktx> wait...
<scott-work> falktx: unfortunately, it's not just a case of deriving a workaround or fix for the disable_interface patch
<falktx> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/50789563/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.gnome-system-tools_2.30.0-0ubuntu2%2Bfixed1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<scott-work> whatever the solution, it will have to go through all the systemic processes which can take a while
<falktx> scott-work: that's why I though about including the fix in my ppa
<falktx> scott-work: users will be happy
<falktx> scott-work: at the very least, u can distribute the fixed deb
<falktx> (for those that don't want the full ppa)
<scott-work> falktx: we still have another option however, remove gnome-network-admin and use network-manager on the ISO
<falktx> yep
<scott-work> this would also bring us closer in line with ubuntu desktop
<falktx> or maybe using cnetworkmanager ?
<falktx> scott-work: cnet... is a networkmanager configured using command-line
<scott-work> i am not aware of cnetworkmanager, i'll have to dig into it...is it in the repositories?
<falktx> scott-work: no, i get it into my ppa though
<falktx> scott-work: it's very simple to use
<scott-work> but that doesn't help the person installing ubuntu studio from dvd though ;)
<scott-work> they really need network configuratiion right after they install
<falktx> so the best thing to do is include the default networkmanager now, for testing
<falktx> and fix the bugs
<scott-work> yeah, i think so too, but i would like to solicit persia's advice when he gets back as well
<quadrispro> ehya guys
<scott-work> hi quadrispro
<scott-work> quadrispro: tiago managed to get rakarrack updated in debian yesterday :)  i'm quite happy about that
<quadrispro> yeah! :)
<quadrispro> I am too
<quadrispro> Now I'm busy in taking care of earcandy
<scott-work> i saw the email, but what is earcandy?
<scott-work> quadrispro: ^^^
<scott-work> i found it at debain packages
<quadrispro> I've found right now an issue with the license...
<quadrispro> upstream didn't provide license headers...
<quadrispro> and the tarball misses a copy of the license, too...
<quadrispro> bad upstream!
<scott-work> lol
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-24
<falktx> hi guys
<falktx> good news
<falktx> i was able to get the nvidia-256 driver to work on 2.6.33-realtime kernel
<jussi> excellent
<falktx> testing it right now... (not me, another user...)
<falktx> anyone here has an nividia card?
<jussi> me, at home
<falktx> jussi: i have patched the ubuntu's nvidia driver package  to work with v2.6.33-realtime
<falktx> jussi: i can give u a link to the deb(s)
<falktx> 32bit - https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/+build/1809710/+files/nvidia-current_256.35-0ubuntu1withrt+ppa1_i386.deb
<falktx> 64bit - https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/lucid/+build/1809709/+files/nvidia-current_256.35-0ubuntu1withrt+ppa1_amd64.deb
<falktx> I am able to compile them in 2.6.33-rt, but I can't test it
<scott-work> rakarrack 0.5.8 is now in Launchpad...yay!
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-25
<jussi> Hiya mquin
<mquin> 'lo
<jussi> Im of the understanding that the #ubuntustudio-* is a seperately registered group to #ubuntu-*. We are trying to get things into line, can you check who the gc is?
<jussi> if its ckontros/_mma_ could you have a conversation with him?
 * ckontros waves
<ckontros> We /thought/ we had this strait years ago but apparently we didnt.
<mquin> I'll see what I can do
<jussi> thanks!
<JuniperJaxx> jussi: 
<jussi> I know...
<JuniperJaxx> jussi: i added them the first time you contacted me on fb but you told me "f" instead of "F"
<JuniperJaxx> h
<JuniperJaxx> oh
<JuniperJaxx> changing
<JuniperJaxx> lol
<ckontros> He messed up. :P
<jussi> Yeah, I screwed up :D
<JuniperJaxx> ok
<JuniperJaxx> new thing now
<JuniperJaxx> 12:12:42 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- UbuntuIrcCouncil has too many channels registered.
<JuniperJaxx> you need to get a flag set so you can register more
<jussi> JuniperJaxx: could you please just ask mquin to action that?
<JuniperJaxx> mquin: hello
<JuniperJaxx> mquin: can you override that? otherwise i cannot pass on founder access
<jussi> JuniperJaxx: pleae mention it s for both here and #ubuntustudio
<JuniperJaxx> mquin: these flags need to be set:
<JuniperJaxx> flags #ubuntustudio UbuntuIrcCouncil +F
<JuniperJaxx> flags #ubuntustudio-devel UbuntuIrcCouncil +F
<jussi> JuniperJaxx: thanks
<JuniperJaxx> yeap
<JuniperJaxx> you are most welcome
<jussi> JuniperJaxx: are you the group contact?
<JuniperJaxx> group contact?
<jussi> JuniperJaxx: did you register #ubuntustudio-* with freenode?
<jussi> ie. fill in the form on the freenode website
<JuniperJaxx> i do not remember
<JuniperJaxx> i have gone through that process before
<JuniperJaxx> i just do not remember if i did it for ubuntustudio as well
<jussi> right.
<JuniperJaxx> i do not think we did
<jussi> anyway, this should now sort it. if we need more, Ill email or pm you
<JuniperJaxx> if i did do it it would have been under Mubuntu
<JuniperJaxx> yeap sure thing
<mquin> JuniperJaxx, jussi: I've peformed those flag changes
<jussi> thanks once again
<JuniperJaxx> mquin: thanks :D
<JuniperJaxx> jussi: let me know if you need anytihng else
<jussi> mquin: could you confirm to us the group contact?
<mquin> jussi: I've asked the GRF team to look into it
<jussi> mquin: excellent. thanks
<defuego> Just posted - here - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9510315#post9510315
<defuego> Jwm
<defuego> LOL trying to keep it short ; - )
<defuego> Check it out - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9510315#post9510315 
<defuego> & any remarks ??
<defuego> hi falktx - that was my post as jwmislan http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9510315#post9510315 - I read your post about #ubuntustudio-devel so I thought I would try a visit.
<falktx> hi defuego
<falktx> defuego: what's up?
<defuego> hi falktx - I'm just chillin out mostly today
<falktx> defuego: i have my own channel now - #kxstudio
<defuego> ok I'm following this nvidia status now - so I'll check in there too - anything going on in there now ?
<falktx> not really
<falktx> only some minor discussion about wine+rt schedulling
<falktx> http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56&Itemid=12
<falktx> i'm preparing the wine package
<falktx> then i'll have to update festige too
<defuego> when I log in to chat next time , I'll watch both this and that for any action 
<defuego> what's festage ? sounds familliar
<falktx> it's a gui for fst
<falktx> made my me
<defuego> what does it do
<falktx> fst loads windows vst plugins as native standalone apps
<defuego> oh K I have Reaper - couple of projects using vst's
<defuego> been wanting to get more into ardour lately though
<falktx> defuego: i have ardour compiled with windows-vst support
<defuego> thing is that I'm afraid to go with too many ppa's - before I follow them to see if they put out too many updates 
<defuego> I would like new ardour with the vst feature though
<defuego> I would like the new ardour with the vst feature though
<falktx> defuego: just download the deb for it
<falktx> defuego: no need for the full ppa
<falktx> i agree that many ppas is a bad thing
<defuego> I'm following you on the studio forum - thanks for your efforts with this stuff - I'll take you up on that I 
<falktx> hehe, my ppa has 8gb limit now
<falktx> 50% full...
<defuego> I enabled bojo's ppa to get the 2.6.33-3-rt - then got an update to 2.6.33-4-rt compiled with the patched nvidia and am using it now. 
<falktx> defuego: the update is from my ppa
<defuego> was a few weeks ago that I enabled that ppa so may be I shoulr reread some of the earlier posts on the thread
<defuego> what's the name of your ppa
<falktx> ppa:falk-t-j/lucid
<falktx> also ppa:falk-t-j/lucid-latest
<defuego> trying to remember where I got bojo's ppa - probably earlier in the thread
<defuego> cool - i'll check them out later
<defuego> do you thing there will have to be many updates to a real time kernel from your ppa , or will things settle somewhat to one decent version ? - with hardy studio I had one 2.6.22.-rt kernel running fine for two years - 
<falktx> the 2.6.31 is now final, no more updates for it
<falktx> for the rest, i dont know
<defuego> you have the 2.6.33
<defuego> ?
<defuego> that would be the final rt kernel version in lucid for me I suppose
<falktx> yep
<falktx> i'll get 2.6.35 when is final
<defuego> will these work with the ubuntu 2.6.32 series though  ?
<ScottL> it is the proprietary drivers for nvidia that people have trouble with isn't it?  for the -rt kernel?
<ScottL> falktx, isn't it the proprietary drivers for nvidia that people are having trouble with using the -rt kernel?
<ScottL> falktx_, ^^^
<falktx_> ScottL: yes, i fixed some issues on it
<falktx_> ScottL: installing it on a realtime kernel, 2.6.33
<falktx_> ScottL: but only the v256 drivers
<ScottL> why do people choose to use the proprietary nvidia drivers?
<ScottL> just so they can use the cube?
<falktx> to have proper 3d
<falktx> and 2d accel
<falktx> scrolling a "ls" in a terminal is slow without prop drivers
<ScottL> i think i turned off all effects or put it to minimal effects
<defuego> bad graphs can slow you down when using daw and become a distracting annoyance 
<ScottL> there just seems to be so much trouble with the drivers and yet everyone seems to want them ALL
<ScottL> but i wonder how much is really necessary and how much is that they want "flash" *shrug*
<defuego> I like to be able to see youtube classical guitar stuff - sometimes practice with so flash is a must for me
<defuego> but also I can turn off compiz if i want while doing studio work 
<defuego> for many the computer is for general purpose along with extra studio needs
<ScottL> by "flash" i meant compiz, not flash player really
<ScottL> and since compize seems to need proprietary dirvers it is problematic
<defuego> yea I end having it off when i need less x-runs while using jack
#ubuntustudio-devel 2010-06-26
<ScottL> i wonder how many people who want the -rt kernel and proprietary nvidia driver really need them
<ScottL> it just seems that perhaps they incur a lot of problems when perhaps they don't need to
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-20
<rlameiro> ailo: unfortunately no...
<rlameiro> the audition was very bad for me, the worst one I ever played...
<rlameiro> we live and learn and move on, next time will be better
<ailo> rlameiro, too bad. Yep, and there will be more chances as well
<rlameiro> exactly
<rlameiro> ailo: do you have some skeleton of the script? or just sctered bits?
<ailo> rlameiro, Your script, or -controls?
<rlameiro> controls
<ailo> rlameiro, Nothing useful right now. I made a functional -controls for natty. I'm making a total rewrite for Oneiric
<ailo> (sorry for answering so late..)
<rlameiro> no prob
<abogani> ScottL: I released the lowlatency kernel for Natty also.
 * abogani waves
<falktx_> hi there
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-21
<charlie-tca> everything except the live desktop appears to be working in Xubuntu today
<scott-work_> i will be grabbing that image tonight then :)
<ailo> Happy news. I just bought a firewire device
<ailo> Focusrite pro 40
<ailo> Just about to see if I can get it to work
<holstein> ailo: d00d
<holstein> those are SO nice
<holstein> congrats
<holstein> [lsd] has one
<ailo> I've been thinking about it for a year or so
<ailo> Just sold an amplifier and saw the price had dropped, so I had to go for it
<ailo> Seems to work, but I get xruns using 512 f/p on Natty
<holstein> lsd said he was getting 10ms stable
<ailo> I may have an irq problem
<ailo> Tried the mixer, but jack quit on me
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-22
<quadrispro> astraljava, got my mail?
<quadrispro> hi ScottL, mudita24 is ready, I'm waiting for an ACK from astraljava 
<astraljava> quadrispro: Yeah. Sorry, I'm a bit busy now what with the switching jobs and moving and all that sort of things. :)
<quadrispro> no worries :)
<astraljava> quadrispro: Is it alright if I look at it this evening?
<quadrispro> of course, take your time
<astraljava> Tomorrow's my last day in the current job, and I need to finish a few things.
<astraljava> Ok, thanks!
<ckontros> Where's Scott? He seems to be very quiet.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-23
 * saidinesh5 waves at holstein :)
<holstein> saidinesh5: o/ :)
<saidinesh5> ssup holstein ?
<holstein> not much
<holstein> got a couple projects going on and a gig tonite :)
<saidinesh5> oh btw. that drumming thing seems to work ......... or i ve been practising that 1 song a bit too much ...... or jst a bit of confidence boost :P
<saidinesh5> Ah koooooooooll
<saidinesh5> :)
<holstein> thats how the pros do it
<saidinesh5> :D
<ailo_> scott-work, ping
<scott-work> ailo_:  hello
<ailo_> scott-work, I'm going to take a few days, maybe up to a week to focus on US. Did you set up a google doc thing yet?
<scott-work> ailo_: no, work has been really, really busy lately
<scott-work> i thought we would be through with reviews earlier in the week but i still ended up staying a couple of hours later each night this week
<scott-work> today is the day the reviews are turned in so today _should_ be the last day :)
 * scott-work is hoping to actually leave early today
<ailo_> scott-work, I'll see what I can do during the week. There's a few things that need to be done after all
<ailo_> scott-work, I'll let you know of my progress
<scott-work> "after all"?
<scott-work> not sure what you mean
<ailo_> documentation, testing script, us-controls..
<ailo_> scott-work, To rephrase - there are a few things that I have set out to do. 
<scott-work> oh, right
<scott-work> gotcha
<scott-work> :)
 * ailo_ is dissasembling a laptop to try disable the mechanism that makes the computer go idle when you colse the lid
<scott-work> can you do that in bios or operating system?
<scott-work> not only were reviews happening (which also involved remote offices across the country) but i'm learning Pro/E while i'm also keeping up my production work :/
<scott-work> it's been a very, very busy couple of weeks
<scott-work> okay, going home :)
<ailo_> Unfortunately the bios was too simple for that. The lid is broken somehow, and makes the computer go idle when the lid is open, so I decided either to try fix it or just disable it.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2011-06-24
<saidinesh5> holstein: how did your gig go?
<holstein> saidinesh5: fine :)
<saidinesh5> :)
<holstein> how did you do today?
<saidinesh5> just woke up :P
<saidinesh5> today i m somehow determined to burn another whole day in this Amarok bug thats plaguing me......
<saidinesh5> (after that Amarok will have music visualization!! :D )
<holstein> cool
<saidinesh5> :D
<ckontros> Anyone seen Scott lately?
<abogani> No
<ckontros> Thats odd. He hasn't commented on the list and I haven't seen him in here when I've stopped in.
<ailo_> ckontros, He has only been logging in from work recently. Said something about being very busy lately and that he might have more time soon. 
<ailo_> ckontros, How's the work going with the xfce stuff? I haven't followed the progress very well. Is the US daily build installable/usable?
<ckontros> ailo_: I've asked mr.pouit from Xubuntu to review my changes. I haven't heard from him yet.
<scott-work> i see that ubuntu is not installing synaptic by default anymore, although it will be in the repos still
<ckontros> Yep
 * scott-work doesn't find this unexpected but is a little saddenned by the delta from where he started with
<scott-work> ohai ckontros :)
 * ckontros waves
<scott-work> you off fridays
<scott-work> ?
<ckontros> For 16 weeks now.
<scott-work> just on fridays?
<ckontros> Yes. I hope it changes soon.
<ckontros> ie: Going back to work on fridays.
<ckontros> scott-work: I'm gonna poke mrpouit again about reviewing our settings pkg later today. Im still trying to formulate something for the art. Izo leaving really threw me.
<ckontros> bbs. Gotta eat.
<scott-work> hi charlie-tca :)  how are you today?
<charlie-tca> Still going
 * ckontros is seriously missing Nautilus and might go to ElementaryOS at some point.
<scott-work> ckontros: you mean the distro?  i do not know much about elemetaryOS at this point
<ckontros> Yes. Its a WIP but they are doing cool stuff. I'm just finding Thunar a bit lacking. As good as it is.
<holstein> nautilus is what takes me back to gnome everytime
<scott-work> what particular features are you missing in Thunar?
<scott-work> i must not have been using nautilus as i could have because i am not currently missing anything but want to learn
<ckontros> scott-work: Folders remember their own view settings and tabs mostly.
<holstein> its not so much that theres no alternative really
<holstein> its just the little things
<holstein> and im just used to it
<ckontros> Pretty much
<scott-work> i wonder if those features are on the roadmap for thunar
<holstein> probably not
<ckontros> Tabs will not happen last I read. I'd bet persistent folder views wont either.
<holstein> i would imagine keeping those other filemanagers really lean are a key featuer
<ckontros> http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.10/roadmap
<ckontros> Specifically: http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.10/roadmap/thunar
<ckontros> What ever happened to the cool preview thing thunar had going on @ the bottom? Like Explorer in Vista/Win7.
<ckontros> http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=4780
<scott-work> that's sad, especially the way he answered the question
 * ckontros shrugs
<holstein> what are the chances we could have nautilus with XFCE ?
<ckontros> Last I saw, it pulls in a TON of GNOME deps
<holstein> lol... 'i'll disapoint both of you' ;)
<charlie-tca> I would go directly to jannis, since he is the developer maintaining Thunar now. 
<holstein> bassburner: hello fellow bass player
<charlie-tca> I thought he had plans for tabs in thunar, but I might be wrong again
<ckontros> charlie-tca: Sure, but he ain't gonna add tabs for us. :P
<ckontros> Oh. :)
<charlie-tca> specifically, no, but I thought he did announce plans for that already
<charlie-tca> possible in Xfce 4.10, but at least at a later date
<ckontros> FYI, with GIT installed: "git clone https://github.com/shimmerproject/Ubuntu-Studio.git .themes/UbuntuStudio-Oneiric" to keep up with the theme changes.
<bassburner> Hello.  How's it going?
<ckontros> I'm away for a bit. PM if needed.
<holstein> bassburner: going well, are you new? or have i just not noticed?
<bassburner> holstein: I'm new. I'm a developer and thinking maybe I'll try and help out.
<holstein> welcome... thats exactly the kind of help we need too :)
<holstein> i play upright bass, mostly jazz
<bassburner> I just sold two of my basses and ordered an electric upright.
<holstein> what did you go with?
<holstein> i ended up making one out of what was left of an old kay neck and fingerboard i had laying around
<bassburner> I got a Palatino. I figured if I really get into it then I'll hunt around for a standard upright.  Living arrangements are currently questionable so the portability is a necessity.
<holstein> cool... yeah, the price on those is hard to pass up
<bassburner> Definitely
<bassburner> And of course there's my electic: http://artingerguitar.com/images/gallery/001/001-024.jpg
<holstein> cool
<scott-work> is that semi-hollow?
<scott-work> bassburner: ^^^
<bassburner> scott-work: yes
<scott-work> interesting, does it add some top end to the bass or affect the sustain?
<scott-work> that might be the first semi-hollow body bass i've ever seen
<scott-work> it's beautiful though
<holstein> i havent had an electric bass for like 15 years
<holstein> i found a mexican jazz bass on craigslist i couldnt pass up though
<bassburner> Add's a little to the top end and the sustain goes on forever.
<holstein> the neck is trashed, so i can get a really nice fretless neck 
<scott-work> bassburner: what type of development work have you done previously?
<bassburner> For my job, I've been stuck in the Microsoft world since 1993.  So from VB2 and MSSQL4.2 all the way to C# and the current ilk.
<bassburner> But I've done plenty of hacking in Java, Python and PHP as well.
<bassburner> My main side project is Exit 66 Jukebox which is what is now being called a cloud music player.
<scott-work> bassburner: ever done work on a drupal website?
<bassburner> bassburner: Yes. I've set a couple up for people including myself.  Although my site's now just running in blogofile.
<holstein> bassburner: good to meet you... im out for pancakes
<bassburner> scott-work: ^^^ - and that's a sign I need more caffeine
<bassburner> holstein: good to meet you to
<scott-work> bassburner: what is a sign of needing more coffee?
<bassburner> scott-work: The fact that I responded to myself instead of you
<scott-work> ah, lol, i didn't see that ;)
<scott-work> maybe i should have some coffee too
<scott-work> bassburner: the reason i asked about drupal is because we are trying to rework our website
<scott-work> we were half-way done when the person helping needed to leave the country for business purposes
<bassburner> I could definitely help out with that.
<scott-work> bassburner: outstanding!  that would be a great, great help currently
<scott-work> there is the added dimension of difficulty in that the install is not as clean as it typically would be for normal servers....i shall explain
<scott-work> part of the website code is maintained within Launchpad (i presume you know about it, please tell me if you don't), which is validated by Canonical security, and then uploaded to the server
<scott-work> you can view this here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-resources/website/files
<scott-work> the database stuff i believe is a single instance that resides locally on the server 
<scott-work> sorry, i'm getting ahead of myself
<scott-work> bassburner:  when would you like to discuss helping with the website?
<bassburner> Sorry.  Had to step away.
<bassburner> Yes.  I know Launchpad.  I'm bassburner on there as well.
<bassburner> scott-work: I'm fairly flexible in meeting times as long as I have a heads up.
<scott-work> bassburner: we could do it right now here if you wish, or later if that is a better time
<bassburner> Now is fine.  It's a slow day.
<scott-work> bassburner: did you read some of the explanation of the how the code is kept and how the install works for the ubuntustudio.org website?
<bassburner> Yes.
<scott-work> okay, then you basically got most of it then :P
<scott-work> the person who was developing the new website gave me the drupal stuff in a tarball and then a mysql (i think) dump as well
<scott-work> do you have a place to host it for development?
<bassburner> Yes.  I have a webfaction account.
<scott-work> bassburner: would you like for me to email what i have to you so you can play around with it?
<bassburner> Sure - andrew@exit66.com
<scott-work> done
<bassburner> got it
<bassburner> I'll get it up this weekend and start checking it out.
<scott-work> cool :)
<scott-work> our tentative goal would be to get this released in for the Ocelot release, which should be late October
<scott-work> if we can
<scott-work> if we can't then we do what we can
<bassburner> That should be doable.
<bassburner> Is there a to-do or wish-list for what needs to be done?
<scott-work> bassburner: oh, yes there is :)
<scott-work> although it's not in that great of shape, organizationally that is
<scott-work> bassburner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp#Original_vs_Planned_Site:
<scott-work> sorry bassburner, do this one:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/TaskWebRevamp
<scott-work> but mainly i suppose we will need to discuss what is next to effectively make a plan
<scott-work> but we probably should wait until you get the website up again so we can see where it stands
<bassburner> sounds good
<scott-work> to be forthcoming, i'll need to refresh myself on where we were going as well
<bassburner> no problem
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-18
<scott-upstairs> micahg, i have it built and it works, i'll try to get a diff file and attach it to the bug report tonight
<micahg> scott-upstairs: ok, I'm piloting tomorrow, I'll try to get it uploaded
<astraljava> scott-work: Open up, I know you're in there. I can see the emails on the list. *smirk* But in all seriousness, those are what I'd like to talk about.
<scott-work> astraljava: i'm here :)   just got on actually
<scott-work> kinda like picking up the phone to call someone and turns out someone else was just calling you
<astraljava> I noticed that, too. In fact, I started with scott-upstairs, but changed mid-sentence. :)
<scott-work> ailo: good work on the web site!  seriously
<scott-work> ailo: i like the "audio" feature tour page in particular, exactly what i envisioned :)
<scott-work> astraljava: hehe
<scott-work> astraljava: what about the emails did you want to talk about?
<astraljava> About the emails; I'd like to see them arrive automagically without admin interference. Would you let me to the interface, if only for figuring out how to do that? If you wanna preserve the privilege to yourself only later on, you could perhaps change the password or something after we get those whitelisted.
<scott-work> astraljava: i don't like having to admin all the emails actually, i view it as a chore...like taking out the trash (no pun intended)
<astraljava> Heheh. :)
<astraljava> Well, it _is_ a chore.
<scott-work> the ones in the admin queue are there because spamassassin believes they are spam for some reason, which is general true if spamassassin picks them
 * astraljava can't believe there's no weather applet for OS X panel.
<astraljava> Yeah, but I seem to recall there being chances for adding them as whitelisted or something.
<scott-work> colin's emails for nansuken are not delivered automagickly because they are "too long"
<astraljava> gah
<scott-work> i have added the sender to the address book already
<scott-work> and double checked (or triple actually) when they kept getting stuck
<astraljava> Hmm...
<scott-work> it's just one more thing to deal with, so in the interim i was just going to deal with it until i get more time to look for a setting or talk to colin about it
<scott-work> but if you want to dig into it, please do :)
<scott-work> i wonder if colin could truncate the emails a bit
<astraljava> Well, I figured I could give it a shot.
<astraljava> If you also want someone to share the load, I'm available.
<astraljava> Well, there was. But they just apparently don't like to call things as panel applets.
 * astraljava hates the whole scene
<scott-work> astraljava: lol @ apple
<scott-work> that should be another email address ;)
<scott-work> astraljava: please, if you would look in the admin panel or talk to colin i would appreciate it greatly
<scott-work> ..
<scott-work> i had a phenominal weekend with doing things outside and father's day and i even got the gimp-plugin-registry building and a diff added to the bug report
<scott-work> i reviewed our website and i have notes for small changes along a few editorial things on a few of the pages
<scott-work> but overall i thought the website has some good substance and it is looking pretty good, especially the parts ailo did
<astraljava> scott-work: Alright. How does that work, then? Is it on the lists.ubuntu.com site? Can you share the passwd, or do I request one for myself?
<astraljava> Sounds good!
<scott-work> i also still have a few notes for a few other pages we could add. knome , will it be trouble if i wanted to add a few new pages to the staging site?
<astraljava> I didn't get most anything done, except the exhausting 2.5 hour QA meeting for Xubuntu. :)
<scott-work> astraljava: i thought jussi talked to you about the mailing list admin?  did he send you a couple of links and passwords?
<astraljava> Hmm... I'll have to check.
<knome> scott-work, definitely not.
<astraljava> scott-work: I don't have any such emails from him, no.
<astraljava> ...saved, anyhoo.
<scott-work> astraljava: i will forward you the email i sent to myself....oh, i sent myself an email
<scott-work> astraljava: okay, i remember, jussi pm'd me the details
<scott-work> uno momento, por favor
<jussi> bah, everyone hilighting me...
<jussi> astraljava: knome scott-work ... because I can :D
 * knome kicks jussi in the groin area
<scott-work> hehehe, jussi ;)  i think astraljava and i have it worked out
<jussi> aww, that wasnt very nice. 
<knome> ...because you don't need that anymore:)
<astraljava> scott-work: Funny, I tried to look for responses to that on google, and found this:"However, you should say Un momento por favor, because Un is the grammatically correct form of Uno in this situation.
<astraljava> I've never heard that before.
<scott-work> lol
<scott-work> in texas, with border to mexico, we tend to include spanish into our speech but it's a bastardized and unformal version
<scott-work> vamanos instead of the correct vamos
<scott-work> which means "to go"
<scott-work> "uno momento, por favor" loosely means "one moment, please"
<astraljava> Yeah I knew what _that_ meant, but I didn't know how to respond to it. :)
<scott-work> "bueno" or "si" ?
<scott-work> so, in look at the build logs for the iso, it seems that 1) gimp-plugin-registry, 2) libav, and 3) xfce4-utils are the problems at this time
<scott-work> (i think)
<scott-work> micahg: would you be able to help get the seeds uploaded or shall i solicit in #ubuntu-motu ?
<astraljava> Bueno is good. It's so close to one of my all-time heroes, Bruno, played by none other than Sasha Baron.
<astraljava> scott-work: I think he mentioned he's gonna be the patch pilot soon, and should have time for them, then.
<scott-work> i saw him saying that, but it seemed like he wasn't sure he would
 * scott-work wrings hands together in nervous, concerned manner
 * scott-work also likes to over dramatize things sometimes :P 
<astraljava> Oh but we all love the drama queens. You included.
<scott-work> hehe
<astraljava> I didn't see any obvious ways to whitelist the emails, so I'm gonna have to see the next one when it's help up, to get more information.
 * astraljava has the bi-annual headache, and considers going home
<scott-work> i just added colin/nansuken to membership
<scott-work> oh, i thought about something else
<scott-work> jono approached me at uds about getting ubuntu studio into the accomplishments app
<scott-work> he seemed to really like the idea and it would get us some more exposure as well
<astraljava> I added that to the approved non-member addresses. Shouldn't make a difference.
 * astraljava has never even heard of it
<scott-work> what are people's thoughts about getting into the applications app? 
<scott-work> ohhh...
 * scott-work get's a link
<scott-work> http://www.jonobacon.org/?s=accomplish&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0&Submit=Go
<jussi> did you finally remove me from the list scott-work?
<scott-work> jussi: i did remove you from the admin list, yes. did you want to remain on it?
<jussi> no
<jussi> scott-work: Ive enough other things to do ;)
<scott-work> okay :)
<ailo> scott-work: Ok, so you think we're close to publishing the staging site?
<ailo> I'd like to improve it for sure, but not until we get closer to next release
<scott-work> ailo: yes, i do think we are close to publishing and i would like to make some improvements as well, a few tweaks to some slideshow and feature tour pages (i.e. video, graphics, photography) and add some additional pages
<micahg> scott-work: yeah, I can spin that a bit later
<scott-work> micahg: hehe, i read your sentence as if ai.lo had said it and got really, really confused for two seconds :P
<scott-work> micahg: thank you :D
<micahg> scott-work: so, siretart uploaded libav, you say you've taken care of xfce4-utils (so I'll upload -default-settings and the -meta when I pilot), and then we're just waiting on gimp=pluginregistry
<scott-work> micahg: short answer: yes
<scott-work> micahg: i have diff in the bug report for gimp-plugin-registry, but i haven't subscribed MOTU or anybody. should i?
 * micahg should have that then in his inbox, haven't checked mail yet
<knome> ailo, scott-work: all the uploaded background images for 'featured tabs' should work now (at least the current ones do, and no reason why new ones shouldn't do too)
<ailo> knome: Thanks. Yep, seems to be working fine now
<knome> great
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-19
<micahg> scott-upstairs: I added the other 2 packages that xfce4-utils were broken out to to recommends of ubuntustudio-default-settings since it seems like they're all needed
<micahg> and uploaded
 * micahg waits for that to publish before uploading the meta
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: With a little (!) help from micahg, the emails should flow through nicely now. There was after all an option for limiting the size of the emails. I've set it to 60KB now, should take care of the problem.
 * micahg is hoping tomorrow's ISO will build :)
<astraljava> Thanks for all the work on it! I'm hoping my other life slows down a bit now, so I can get to Studio work as well.
<micahg> I'm just uploading :)
<astraljava> Well you did a little bit extra just now. I _do_ read the changelogs. :)
<micahg> generating meta upload now
<astraljava> Cool!
<micahg> uploaded
 * micahg has one more to go
<astraljava> Nice, thanks! Is the time (around 18:15 or so) UTC? Means the build initiates at 1800 UTC?
<micahg> yeah
<astraljava> Alright, let's see how it runs in 11 hours, then. Thanks again. :)
<micahg> hrm, gimp plugin registry patch isn't working
<micahg> I can't play with it tonight though
 * micahg will comment in the bug
<astraljava> Can I be of assistance there?
<micahg> Bug #1013003 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013003 in gimp-plugin-registry (Ubuntu Quantal) "gimp-plugin-registry 5.20120523 fails to build in quantal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013003
<astraljava> Ok, I'll see what I can do.
<micahg> ok, if you or scott-upstairs get something before 17:00 UTC or so, go ahead and look for a sponsor, otherwise, I can upload later today when I come in
<astraljava> Alright, let's see how it goes. Have a good one!
<falktx> hm, does 12.10 have gimp 2.8?
<astraljava> Version: 2.8.0-2ubuntu1
<astraljava> falktx: So in other words, yes.
<falktx> nice
<ailo> micahg: I forget. What was the tool to use when wanting to backport?
<ailo> I read a bit about it, and all I seemed to find was you create a bug for it, which I assume the tool does too
<astraljava> ailo: requestbackport
<scott-upstairs> hmmmm, i wonder why the gimp-plugin-registry patch didn't work...it build in ppa
<scott-upstairs> astraljava, thanks for finding that setting, i certainly hope it works
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: We'll see in a few. I'll try to work out the patch on buildd pbuilder, but my machine isn't really up-to-date, I
<astraljava> *I've had to tweak it all day. :)
<astraljava> scott-upstairs: Where/how did you get that patch on the bug #1013003
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1013003 in gimp-plugin-registry (Ubuntu Quantal) "gimp-plugin-registry 5.20120523 fails to build in quantal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1013003
<ailo> astraljava: Thanks. We should get the newer qjackctl backported, since it half-solves a bug (in jackd2 I think)
<astraljava> ailo: Ok cool.
<ailo> ooh, there's some testing involved as well :P
<ailo> Anyone done much backporting here?
<ailo> I just followed the instructions to upload to ppa. Seems like a smart place to keep testing packages
<ailo> ah, but qjackctl hasn't been updated yet for quantal :(
<astraljava> ailo: Yeah, that's what it is indeed. I think at least one person needs to test the changes before it is accepted into the queue.
<astraljava> ailo: You can requestsync it. :)
<ailo> Aha!
<ailo> But I need to do that from the quantal (development version), no?
<ailo> I guess it couldn't be synced to anything else anyway..
<ailo> This is weird: The package 'qjackctl' does not exist in the Debian primary archive in sid, sid-security, sid-updates or sid-proposed
<astraljava> Usage: requestsync [options] <source package> [<target release> [base version]]
<astraljava> So no, I don't think you need to.
<ailo> I noticed it had quantal as default. The package does exist in sid though
<astraljava> ailo: http://packages.debian.org/sid/qjackctl
<astraljava> Maybe I misunderstood.
<ailo> Well, I just did: requestsync qjackctl
<ailo> Which should have the right options by default
<ailo> And qjackctl does exist, so..
<astraljava> Great. :)
<astraljava> Oh, now I understood correctly.
<ailo> I asked about it on #ubuntu-devel. Seems there's some problem with https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/qjackctl/+publishinghistory
<astraljava> Yep, reading it too.
<scott-work> i was reading micahg 's comments in the bug report, is there a good guide for making quilt patches?
<scott-work> i've _applied_ quilt patches, but never created one :P
<micahg> scott-work: http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/howto/quilt.html#creating_a_patch
<micahg> err.maybe not the best guide, but it should get you going
<astraljava> micahg: Good morning. I didn't get far with the patch for gimp-plugin-registry. I needed to fight with my machine, and I still don't have a working schroot for quantal.
<micahg> astraljava: ok, no problem, FWIW, debootstrap in precise-backports works fine for me
<astraljava> micahg: I'm not sure it's a problem with that.
<astraljava> micahg: It's not binding /home for me.
<astraljava> But oh well, I'll fight that battle elsewhere.
<astraljava> So who's on precise? Does hitting Alt+F<1-6> take you to a virtual terminal? I wonder what I have done that eliminated the need for pressing Ctrl as well.
<jussi> astraljava: macbook..
<astraljava> Err... your point?
<jussi> astraljava: the keyboard was all messed up last time i checked..
<astraljava> Which keyboard?
<astraljava> The keyboard on my Studio box at home? It's not a MacBook, if that's what you were trying to refer to.
<jussi> oh
<ailo> astraljava: Ctrl+Alt+F<1-6> ?
<astraljava> ailo: It used to be that I needed to use both Ctrl and Alt together, to have F<1-6> take me into a virtual terminal. But now for some reason, only Alt is enough.
<jussi> astraljava: is your control button stuck? :P
<astraljava> xev doesn't think so.
<ailo> exit
<ailo> exit
<ailo> :P
<astraljava> TYPE HARDER!
<astraljava> micahg: Well, I'm not sure I can be of much assistance re: gimp-plugin-registry. My worry is that the debdiff is rather freaky as the source has links inside, and some changes are suggested by patch having been applied already because of this.
<astraljava> micahg: How does the build procedure work in this case? Will the debdiff be applied to the sources before buildd starts to churn, or is it applied at build-time? If the latter, then the confusion could explain it.
<astraljava> The cdimage mails seemed to just drop in this time, unless you approved them explicitly.
<micahg> astraljava: no worries, thanks for trying
<micahg> astraljava: debdiff is applied to source, patches are applied before build begins
<astraljava> Ok.
<astraljava> micahg: Anyway, it builds here on a fresh quantal pbuilder.
<len-dt>  astraljava I need both ctl and alt.
<astraljava> Weird.
<astraljava> But thanks. :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-20
<scott-work> hmmm, looks like all remains to fix the image building is gimp-plugin-registry
<scott-work> micahg: you want i should make a quilt patch for this? is this what we had decided before?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-21
<ailo> I wish everyone a happy midsummer. Probably only around these parts it is celebrated, but in any case. It's a good time to relax and get some time off, even if it doesn't happen to be a tradition
<knome> ailo, you too!
<len-dt> We had a BBQ last night... though I am not sure that it was the solstice we were celebrating. Al the best..
<len-dt> *all
<ailo> Midsummers eve I guess is actually the 24th, but we celebrate the nearest weekend nowadays. No bbq tomorrow - it will rain :(. But that won't stop me from taking a sauna and getting a swim in the lake :)
<knome> we had a board gaming night last night, so kind of (brain) bbq too!
<micahg> astraljava: Debian fixed gimp-plugin-registry and I'll sync it later tonight, so you should have images tomorrow
 * astraljava tuckle-hugs micahg
 * micahg wonders what a tuckle is
<astraljava> Err... I might have forgotten the correct term, hang on.
<knome> micahg, whatever it is - be happy! the last time i did something for him, i got a kiss on the mouth!!
<knome> (not literally)
<knome> (fortunately)
 * astraljava ctlr-z's, and pounce-tackle-hugs micahg
<knome> ugggh
<ailo> Oh, you're being almost Swedish today :P
<knome> i'm always almost swedish. ;)
<knome> at least geographically.
<ailo> knome: Far up in the north, or Ahvenamaa?
<knome> nah. not *that* almost.
 * knome is located at helsinki
<ailo> Ok, I see your point
<ailo> I lived there for one summer. Nice city
<knome> can agree. have lived here all my life
<astraljava> Not as nice as Espoo, though.
<ailo> Not too far away
<knome> well, our summer cottage is in espoo.
<knome> actually, mum bought another one from helsinki
<knome> ...
<ailo> My dad is from Kuopio, but my mother did live in Helsinki for a while
<knome> i don't know kuopio well
<ailo> Well, my dad is 1/2 Karelian, as is my mom really
<ailo> Kuopio is a nice city where taxi drivers sometimes have big beards and say "pÃ¤evÃ¤Ã¤"
<ailo> Big moustasches, I mean
<ailo> I met one that had one, anyway...
<astraljava> knome: Kuopio is the place where they worship Tarot in midst of wolves and wild boars.
<knome> astraljava, hah. well, two of my friends study there, so... maybe.
<astraljava> 20 of the... 30 inhabitants follow Tarot on tours everywhere.
<knome> lawl
<knome> ailo, hmm, well, that makes sense. the other of my friends has grown a big beard while living there.
<ailo> Good musicians in Kuopio
<knome> the other didn't - and i'm happy *she* didnt'.
<astraljava> Most noticably in Tuska, where they form the front row of all the... 45 people watching them.
<knome> hahah
<ailo> My dad on the drums http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn-CtAtYMGY
<ailo> Pettersonin veljekset
<astraljava> Buahaha.
<astraljava> *ahem*
<knome> gosh.
<ailo> He's the one on the left in the back row
<knome> oh my
<astraljava> aagggghhhhhhhh
<astraljava> But he's got the groove laid down real nice.
<astraljava> O:-)
<ailo> That's Kuopio musicianship, anyway
<astraljava> True. But you know, you have to forgive them. They just emerged from the caves this past century.
<ailo> hehe
<knome> hurr durr
<ailo> He's gone now, my dad. But he did play with a lot of the famous Finns at the time. Not a bad drummer. Actually made his first own drums at his fathers work shop
<ailo> Eventually, he got real ones
<knome> i'm sorry
<ailo> An he trew his own made into a river!!
<knome> maybe the sound was bad?
<ailo> Who cares. He made them. Would have been nice to see a picture at least
<astraljava> Heh. :) Well you know, Eddie van Halen used his self-made guitar up until the record next to 1984.
<ailo> That's cool. Never heard of that
<astraljava> Err... let's double-check that. Hang on a minute.
<ailo> But he didn't build the parts though
<astraljava> Well no, not really.
<astraljava> But Brian May did.
<ailo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Van_Halen#Guitars
<ailo> Well, I'm sure both Van Halen and Brian May had better sound than Juha Ailomaa
<ailo> They were using leather skins back then
<astraljava> Bah, it was already in 1983 when he started to use the Kramer.
<astraljava> Oh well, something like that.
<astraljava> Hahah!
<ailo> Van Halen did help improve Floyd Rose
<astraljava> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_May#Musician and read the bits about the Red Special.
<ailo> Oh, he built that with his father
<astraljava> The parts are pretty interesting.
<ailo> hmm, I should read this again. A friend of mine is starting to build instruments. For me it's still hebrew :)
<astraljava> Heheh. :) There are indeed a lot of things to consider.
<astraljava> But for Brian, I suppose it helps that he's a doctor, and I mean from a real college, too.
<astraljava> Of course he wasn't at the time he built the guitar. But still.
<ailo> Ah, you don't need to go to school to learn how to build things :). But of course, it helps having knowledge about things
<astraljava> Yeah. There's some understanding of proportions, and what interacts with what. A degree in astrophysics sure won't hinder your abilities in doing that. :D
<ailo> astraljava: Can be like this too :P https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--gaMo_jycWA/T-OZgvNx-mI/AAAAAAAAAGU/jKvco4O3O3I/s604/jvhLv.jpghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--gaMo_jycWA/T-OZgvNx-mI/AAAAAAAAAGU/jKvco4O3O3I/s604/jvhLv.jpg
<knome> not found?
<knome> i'm wondering if that is terminal fail
<astraljava> It's twice there.
<knome> oh.
<knome> heh
<astraljava> ailo: Aww... and I was just re-starting my academic career.
<ailo> Sorry. Was wondering how to post a pic from g+ also
<ailo> astraljava: Me too. Or, starting at all..
#ubuntustudio-devel 2012-06-23
<len-dt> New ISO has landed... Thanks all who helped.
<len-live> 12.10 ISO boots.
<len-live> 12.10 ISO settings menu is changed, has a lot more menu entries.
<len-live> I think the names have changed.
<len-live> Nautilus is wonky. it does not show mass storage devices as it used to. The menu background colour is wrong and it calls itself "files", but ps x still shows nautilus.
<len-live> In fact removable devices don't show anywhere... desktop or thunar either
<len-live> Installer knows I am PST again :)
<len-live> Installer screen is still too tall for a netbook. scroll bars still show up too.
<astraljava> len-dt: I don't suppose we'll partake on Alpha-2 milestone, still? ;)
<len-1210> I was able to install the 1210 ISO without glitch.
<len-1210> The big problem for me is the missing gui stuff in files/nautilus/thunar/desktop to mount unmount other storage devices.
<len-dt> astraljava, we haven't done anything yet. It also looks like we have to go back and make things that worked before work again.
<len-dt> I don't see anything really new happening this cycle. Add some new apps that are missing, fix up the menu some more, get permissions right so that the stuff we added to the kernel is available to the software that needs it.
<astraljava> len-dt: That sort of was my drift. :)
<len-dt> astraljava, I guess web page and docs could be really big though. 
<len-dt> That was the one thing missing 12.04
<astraljava> Sure. Oh well, there's still about four months left of this cycle. We could technically still kick arse.
<len-dt> I am just looking at the software-center man page. It looks like it is possible to start it with a selection of software.
<len-dt> So we could have it start with an audio selection of stuff we don't ship for example.
<len-dt> astraljava, instead of the software center menu item it could be a submenu with audio/photography/graphics/video/all software selectors in it. 
<len-dt> I get the idea there are a lot more ways of starting this software, but the man page is pretty bleak. 
<len-dt> astraljava, so far as kicking arse.... a leader would really help.
<astraljava> len-dt: I'm pretty lost on software center, it'd rock if someone could look into that, as it seems to be the only real GUI in the future for package management, I heard synaptic is going away.
<len-dt> Life happens though, my activity has been pretty low too.
<astraljava> len-dt: As for leader, I don't know what's going on and going to happen. Let's give it (him) some time.
<astraljava> len-dt: Yeah, mine too. And it looks like I'm going to be more active on Xubuntu side this cycle, but let's still try not to let this flavor die, anyway. :)
<len-dt> astraljava, Ya it would be nice to be able to give S.C. a file with a list of apps to show. Or a type of sw to show
<len-dt> astraljava, do you know what part of xfce gives us the storage device icons?
<len-dt> Is xubuntu missing them as well?
<astraljava> len-dt: Yes, they are.
<astraljava> Or it is*
<astraljava> Whichever is the correct form. :)
<len-dt> both are close enough..
<len-dt> Those of us born speaking english spend our whole life mucking it up :)
<len-dt> astraljava, So is this something that will come back? Is it something to do with xfce 4.10?
<len-dt> Was xfce4-util pulling in something that is not there anymore?
<len-dt> astraljava, we seem to be missing gvfsd-dnssd, gvfsd-http, gvfsd-network, gvfsd-smb-browse
<len-dt> astraljava, gvfs-gdu-volume-monitor seems to be replaced by gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor.
<len-dt> I am not sure if this is xfce related or if all of ubuntu has this problem
<astraljava> I'm not really sure, to be honest. I haven't investigated the issue at all, yet, but one tester reported this and I doubt it's fixed so far.
<astraljava> I'd lean towards it being the removable drives mounting over at xfce's side, though.
<len-dt> It doesn't work for nautilus either.
<len-dt> I think I will download vanilla and see if it is there.
<len-dt> A mass storage device is not auto mounted either.
<astraljava> On vanilla?
<len-dt> I am not sure, there is a bug report #1010523, but it says 11.10, however it is recent enough it might be a typeo
<len-dt> Bug #1010523
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1010523 in linux (Ubuntu) "no usb attached storage works" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1010523
<len-dt> The kernels mentioned look to new to be 11.10
<astraljava> Yeah but it's from apport, isn't it?
<len-dt> Scratch that...
<len-dt> Kernel is old enough.
<len-dt> astraljava, I guess I will have to DL vanilla...
<len-dt> I am not good at searching bugs... picking out good search strings
<len-dt> astraljava, this looks related...Bug #1011257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1011257 in gnome-disk-utility (Ubuntu) "x-gvfs-show option doesn't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1011257
<len-dt> And this bug #1012081 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1012081 in util-linux (Ubuntu) "util-linux needs updating to 2.21+" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1012081
<astraljava> Right, but that's with the old kernel, still.
<len-dt> No its 12.10
<len-dt> kernel 3.4.0-5.11-generic 3.4.0
<len-dt> Thats ahead of ours.
<len-dt> US 12.10 kernel is still 3.2.0.23
<len-dt> astraljava, this may also be related: Bug #1015854 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1015854 in sound-juicer (Ubuntu) "Fails to find cdrom with gvfs* 1.13.1-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015854
<len-dt> astraljava, it looks like a vanilla gvfs (or supporting SW) problem
<len-dt> I will DL vanilla and see if my problem is there and do another bug report, but include at least one of these bugs as ref.
<astraljava> Oh, well it's possible the -lowlatency hasn't been updated recently.
<astraljava> I think the vanilla goes in 3.5 already.
<len-dt> astraljava, we need to do two updates, one for 12.04 and one for 12.10
<astraljava> What has precise got?
<len-dt> astraljava, precise is one version back from vanilla. My Yf's netbook is one more.3.2.0.24 or something.
<len-dt> same kernel but updated.
<astraljava> Alright, one more thing to the TODO list... *sigh*
<len-dt> astraljava, BTW, synaptic is faster and more flexable than software centre, I hope it remains available on some PPA.
<astraljava> Could be, but it's unlikely that we can keep it on the images, though.
<len-dt> astraljava, it is nice for checking depends etc.
<astraljava> bah... that's what terminal is for. *smirk*
<len-dt> Ya, aptitude has all that. I imagine it will stay around for server
<len-dt> astraljava, I'v been spoiled....
<len-1210> Bug #1016978 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1016978 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus shows no devices" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016978
<len-1210> astraljava, ^^ if the xubuntu tester who had the same problem filed a bug, I can mark this a dup, or if not they can confirm and add any info to this one.
<astraljava> Yeah, we just need to figure out the root cause first.
<len-1210> vanilla seems to be ok
<len-1210> They have a section called "devices" at the top of the side bar. That seems to be missing on our version. I would guess xubuntu is using thunar, but I had the same problem there too.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-17
<smartboyhw> hey madeinkobaia 
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Hey you back ! How are you ?
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, great:)
 * smartboyhw needs to go for lunch and piano lesson...
<madeinkobaia> Fine, by my side great too.
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Ok, see you later : )
<OvenWerks> zequence: smartboyhw etc, The extra software installers will not be in the menus for other DEs, just our own ISO. This is because lubuntu and kubuntu (and maybe soon xubuntu) do not install USC and so the menu items do not work.
<OvenWerks> If we want something like that, we need to come up with a script kind of installer that doesn't drag in extra libs that we can ship with the menu package.
<OvenWerks> But for now, I will leave the desktop files for these in our default settings package so they only show up in our ISO.
<OvenWerks> We can decide later if we want to include USC as part of all our DE metas or not. I guess if we are including our xfce desktop as default USC will be there anyway.
 * OvenWerks is up to snapshot release d a few minutes ago.
<OvenWerks> And if the default is there it's settings and therefore the extra launchers... so the extra software stuff will work on anything installed on top of our ISO.
<OvenWerks> The extra SW stuff will not even be visible for those loading our metas on top of another install though.
<OvenWerks> That would mean that our menu meta should work on non-ubuntu and even non-debian based distros so long as they have dpkg
<zequence> OvenWerks: interesting about the MB
<Noskcaj10> OvenWerks, folding@home is pro project run by stanford university. it's finds cures for cancer, alzheimers, parkinsons, etc.
 * smartboyhw just saw a commit by zequence 
<zequence> a pretty stupid commit in fact
<cub> haha what why?
<zequence> one that erases the changes done by my previous commit
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh. You got things wrong?
<zequence> yes, but that is only to be expected as I do changes to packages I don't really know much about :P
<zequence> sometimes you do learn a lot by doing mistakes, luckily
<smartboyhw> zequence, like me:P
<zequence> cub: madeinkobaia started working on a new social site banner to overcome the problem with the youtube banner cropping, so that is why it is taking longer than expected
<zequence> but, we don't really need it right away anyway
<cub> Not yet anyhow
<zequence> I was thinking of doing some tutorial videos myself soon
<zequence> we should start a blueprint for that, so we don't do the same videos twice
<cub> I was too, but was shipped over to Gothenburg for the weekend without time or laptop. :P
<zequence> ah, where are you at?
<zequence> I live quite close to Slottsskogen
<cub> NÃ¤set. A relative to my girlfriend graduated
<zequence> I see
<smartboyhw> Oh two contributors living in Sweden?
<cub> Yup, I live in Stockholm
<smartboyhw> We really have many Swedishs and Belgians and Finnishs.....
<smartboyhw> :P
<cub> It's because of our long and cold winters, we stay inside fiddling with out computers
<zequence> In HK they might do that during summer to escape the burning heat outside
<smartboyhw> I'm sweating indoors here already...
<cub> Hmm we were quite close to where you live then (checking out google maps)
<smartboyhw> Waiting for the kde-workspace build to finish...
<cub> Has anyone tried out US with xmonad?
<zequence> never heard of it
<smartboyhw> What's xmonad!?
<cub> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmonad
<cub> it tiles windows
<cub> a few months back I was looking into using to automatically set up all my different windows depending on whether I was to record audio, edit videos or office work
<cub> but I never really put my head into it, but still would like to investigate
<cub> you could run it by itself or on top of xfce
<smartboyhw> cub, use a VM :P
<cub> it is a VM
<cub> wait, a WM
<zequence> the only time when I use windows heavily is when using Ardour, using the mixer and all sorts of plugins
<smartboyhw> cub, I mean use a virtual machine to test Xmonad.
<zequence> but, I never keep stuff open if I don't actively control it
 * smartboyhw used Ubuntu due to Windows 8 being absolute crap
<cub> yeah, I started out running it on my eee pc
<zequence> I usually maximize windows, or semi-maximize (over either half of the side of the screen)
<cub> zequence, exactly. I would be nice to split the different windows between my laptop and external screen
<cub> without dragging them around myself. Sure, it's not that much work but I was bored.
<zequence> There is a way to have applications open in a specific screen
<zequence> on specific workspaces even
<zequence> but, I've stopped bothering witht hat
<zequence> I use two workspaces at the most
<cub> same here
<cub> but usually that's only on my work pc, home laptop I rarely use more than one workspace
<zequence> I use my 42 inch TV as monitor, so I also stopped using dual monitoring
<zequence> otherwise, dual monitors is pretty useful
<zequence> especially when working with a program like ardour
<cub> yeah
<cub> it would be sweet to be able to break out windows in Kdenlive as well, but it's not (yet)
<zequence> my exam, and any that would have followed were postponed from Friday to earliest, 30th of July, so it seems like I'll have a bit more time than I thought for US development
<smartboyhw> zequence, why?
<smartboyhw> I mean the reason of the delay...
 * smartboyhw is leaving from 10th to 30th July, IIRC.
<zequence> school stuff kind of comes to a helt during July
<zequence> eveyone's on vacation
<smartboyhw> zequence, yeah.
<zequence> I'm thinking we should reorganize our blueprints
<zequence> not sure we really need to have Ubuntu blueprints at all. We could just have everything within the Ubuntu Studio project
<zequence> maybe only keep some simple blueprints for stuff that is urgent to fix for a specific release
<zequence> OvenWerks: What do you think?
<smartboyhw> zequence, +1 from me...
<smartboyhw> Not sure for OvenWerks 
<zequence> most of what we do is not release specific anyway
<zequence> it just gets done when it gets done
<zequence> I could try simplifying things too
<zequence> Just to clarify, what I meant is this: we keep blueprints within the "Ubuntu" project at a bare minimum, while try to keep as much of our blueprints within the "Ubuntu Studio" project
<zequence> ..and also by doing that, we could try minimizing the amount of blueprints overall
<smartboyhw> zequence, I certainly want minimization...
<smartboyhw> It's too damn messy...
<madeinkobaia> Hi all : )
<madeinkobaia> If anybody feel at least a little bit concerned by our "look & feel" I invite you to take a look on a new banner project for our social networks.
<holstein> our? like, ubuntustudio
<holstein> for facebook? etc?
<holstein> who has access to them?
<madeinkobaia> Hum I am not the art lead for another distro, I think.
<holstein> ?
<holstein> if you drop a link here to some art, im sure some folks will take a look
<madeinkobaia> Hi holstein, as art lead for us (ubuntu studio) I work now on a improved version of the previous social network banner (who was done by me, too ;p)
<madeinkobaia> Her is the link for g+ : 
<madeinkobaia> https://plus.google.com/u/0/112937756282972852089/posts
<madeinkobaia> And on YouTube : http://www.youtube.com/user/madeinkobaia
<holstein> are you the admin for the sites?
<madeinkobaia> I making tests on my own profile for the moment.
<holstein> so, are you the admin?
<madeinkobaia> Indeed I am admin for this sites too
<holstein> cool
<holstein> i know, i personally trust your judgment
<madeinkobaia> Feel free to tell me what you think, its a the "beta" release, I will change some details again.
<holstein> i think there was some talk about the slogan
<holstein> its fine
<holstein> i like it.. 
<holstein> i see a registered trademark.. is it?
<holstein> anyways.. looks good
<madeinkobaia> Thanks : ) It was really tricky to found the good proportion, as g+ / youtube have completly changed their display appearance. So it was the time to update our banners.
<madeinkobaia> Yes the trademark was on the previous versions, and we decided to keep it. Now is it really important..I don't know.
<madeinkobaia> holstein: About my introspection "If anybody feel at least a little bit concerned by our "look & feel"..." its because its the 3rd time I add a link to the banners without any answers, glad to have your opinion.
<madeinkobaia> About "my introduction" I mean ; )
<OvenWerks> madeinkobaia: holstein, I think the TM has to be there because of the word "Ubuntu" if nothing else.
<cub> madeinkobaia, could you add me to be able to see the new G+ banner?
<OvenWerks> Looks good by the way. I don't normally look at "social" sites so I haven't been watching the progress :)
<madeinkobaia> cub : it is not finish , the link : https://plus.google.com/u/0/112937756282972852089/posts
<cub> yes, but I'm not allowed to see it: "Zak hasn't shared anything with you.
<cub> People are more likely to share with you if you add them to your circles."
<madeinkobaia> Hi OwenWerks :)
<OvenWerks> cub: I don't think you need to be added to see the banner... unless I am missing something. I saw a banner on both links.
<OvenWerks> Hi
<madeinkobaia> cub : its my banner, normally you can see it
<cub> hm google thinks I should not see it
<madeinkobaia> cub : maybe the link is not good, try this one : https://plus.google.com/u/0/112937756282972852089/posts/p/pub
<madeinkobaia> OwenWerks : do you see it ?
<OvenWerks> madeinkobaia: we are looking at adding different DEs as you know. I was wondering how hard it would be to have a logo that combines the DE with ours. Like the KDE gear with the top open like a lid and ubuntustudio dropping in or something... as an example.
<cub> the new link redirects me to an empty page
<cub> oh well, PGP is against me tonight as well. :D
<madeinkobaia> OwenWerks : Great idea to combine, no problems for create something in that spirit.
<OvenWerks> not at that link the first one worked though
<OvenWerks> https://plus.google.com/u/0/112937756282972852089/posts worked for me. At first it came up empty, but then the banner came later.
<OvenWerks> Also maybe try to scroll up.
<OvenWerks> You may be below the banner
<madeinkobaia> OwenWerks : Yep, without scroll you don't see nothing of course ;p
 * cub is stupid
<cub> yes, I'm not used to scrolling upwards on a new page.
<OvenWerks> I had to look at it more than once too...
<OvenWerks> madeinkobaia: I was thinking for backgrounds more than anything. I felt it would be good to recognise the effort the DE put into things and to remind the user that desktop support should still rest with the DE people :)
<madeinkobaia> OwenWerks : Ok, the better thing should be, if you want, to send a mail with the details about the project and what should the graphics for that.
<OvenWerks> I will try to do some rough (really rough) drafts of what I mean... 
<madeinkobaia> OwenWerks : Great : )
<cub> Maybe you have already discussed this, but the banners say "Linux for creative humans", not to be picky (but others might be so) shouldn't it say "GNU/Linux"?
<zequence> It would be too complicated for a slogan
<zequence> people who know what it means, will know what it means
<OvenWerks> most don't
<zequence> people who don't will know if they get interested enough
<zequence> it's good to put GNU/Linux stuff in "about" pages and so on
<madeinkobaia> cub : In the the popular way to think Linux is enough. Now of course for be straight is should be GNU/Linux or better Gnu's Not Unix....well...you know
<cub> or the other way around. People who know what it means might argue about it and people who don't just read linux
<OvenWerks> Most people are still go "linux?" and are just getting that there is something other than win/osx available
<zequence> a slogan is more towards the poetic and should focus on that. technically, it is not wrong to say Linux, as that is what many people do
<madeinkobaia> ^ agree
<cub> I agree too, but just stumble across a wild discussion about it yesterday so it was fresh in my mind
<OvenWerks> people who know what it means install Arch
<cub> "linux is just the kernel!!!" and so on..
<zequence> http://ubuntustudio.org/about-ubuntustudio/
<OvenWerks> :)
<zequence> "Ubuntu Studio is the most widely used multimedia orientated GNU/Linux distribution in the world"
<cub> yes, I checked there first
<OvenWerks> zequence: it would sure be nice ti have an ISO to be able to install our metas off of. Downloading the metas for the fourth or more times. :P
<OvenWerks> I guess if we had an alt ISO that would work.
<zequence> OvenWerks: It's not too difficult to set up a local repo
<zequence> I did that just a couple of days ago
<zequence> let me find the link
<zequence> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/HowTo/TrivialRepository
<zequence> actually, haven't tested on Ubuntu yet
<zequence> but should work just the same
<zequence> I've started to keep /usr/local on a separate partition
<zequence> and put a lot of non-distro or release specific stuff there
<zequence> multiple distros use the same /usr/local
<zequence> should work for the menu, I think
<OvenWerks> To test the menu I need to install our sw. I have thought I had it working then install another meta and it is not quite right :P
<zequence> I have taken some steps towards understanding how the ISOs are built, using the seeds and so on. If you want, we could look at building local ISOs
<zequence> I started a page about it here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/SetupLocalIsoBuildServer
<zequence> the problem there is you need to customize some stuff, if you don't want to only use packages in the Ubuntu repos
<zequence> I could probably set up our own dev ISO, all though, that would be a bit counterproductive
<zequence> we just need to get our own upload rights so we can put stuff up when we need it
<zequence> but, I do think it's good for us to have the knowledge of the whole process documented
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-18
<madeinkobaia> See you all 8-)
<OvenWerks> zequence: actually what  should do is make a copy of the /usr/share/applications directory and all it's files. I can link it in for testing.
<OvenWerks> Menu testing that is.
<OvenWerks> anyway, off to practice.
<smartboyhw> Hi guys:)
<cub> good morning/day/evening?
<smartboyhw> cub, evening (6:22 PM)
<cub> Ah, I just came back from llunch
<smartboyhw> cub, makes sense:)
<smartboyhw> I'
<smartboyhw> I'm in Hong Kong, IIRC.
<cub> yeah, 6 hours difference
<cub> So, how did you end up using Ubuntu Studio?
<smartboyhw> cub, a bit of video editing...
<cub> cool, I'm just starting to learn video
<cub> which app do you prefer?
<smartboyhw> OpenShot or kdenlive. I used openshot but...
<cub> any thoughts on cinelerra or lightworks?
<smartboyhw> no:P
<cub> I'm using kdenlive as of now but was thinking about learning cinelerra, but have been told on occasion I shouldn't bother
<DarkEra> hi all
<smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra 
<DarkEra> heya smartboyhw 
<DarkEra> can we throw a party here?
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, what sort of party?
<smartboyhw> We don't have some amazing things happening today...
<DarkEra> birthday party :P
<DarkEra> being 40 now is not a amazing thing? lol
<smartboyhw> DarkEra, for whom? You?
<DarkEra> yep :D
<smartboyhw> Happy 40th birthday DarkEra !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<DarkEra> hahaha... thanks buddy :)
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, zequence ^
<DarkEra> Looks 18, Feels 14, Acts 8 ----> that makes me 40 :P
<smartboyhw> What the heck....
<DarkEra> i always said that i never grow up
<cub> Congratulations DarkEra !
<cub> I'm 41 and still waiting for when I grow up
<DarkEra> thanks cub :)
<DarkEra> lol
<zequence> DarkEra: Happy Birthday!
<DarkEra> thanks zequence :)
<zequence> DarkEra: Big party?
<zequence> DarkEra: Do you live close to Bryssels btw?
<zequence> Brussles*
<zequence> Brussels* :P
<DarkEra> zequence, no, just celebrating with my wife and kids. I'm living close to the Netherlands by the way
<zequence> I was thinking of stopping by Brussels on my wy to DebConf in August. madeinkobaia lives there, but he wasn't sure if he would be home
<DarkEra> ah i see :)
<zequence> When I turn 40, it will be the biggest 40 year party anyones ever seen. I'm just worried that I'll be completely straight edge by then
<DarkEra> due the party i hope? loads of booze
<zequence> I've really lost the taste for alcohol lately. Kind of boring
<DarkEra> i loved drinking beer but had to quit due my psoriasis
<zequence> really?
<zequence> My "problem" was I started doing condition training
<zequence> running and cycling mostly
<DarkEra> zequence, yep. I have UV A light treatment now, still 2 to 3 weeks to go 3 times a week
<zequence> DarkEra: Sounds pretty bad. Is it only temporary?
<DarkEra> can't be cured but reduced. There are times that it will get worse again like it was last April and May
<DarkEra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psoriasis
<zequence> A friend of mine has that problem, but I never heard he had UV light treatment
<zequence> He claims being a vegan helps
<zequence> he's sometimes vegeterian, sometimes vegan
<zequence> but, beer makes it worse?
<DarkEra> 5 or more glasses of beer per week can indeed make it worse
<DarkEra> that's what i have read and heard from the doctor
<zequence> hard to become an alcoholic then
<DarkEra> hahaha... yes it is :D
<smartboyhw> Good night guys, got the past hour too busy on stupid symbols....
<smartboyhw> package symbols I mean
<DarkEra> night smartboyhw  :)
 * Noskcaj is away: school
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-19
<cub> basically the US team is 24/7 and cover all the globe?
<cub> the US, Canada, Europe, Asia
<smartboyhw> cub, yeah sure but I'm 6 hours ahead
<OvenWerks> cub: A very loose 24/7... it is good to have a life too ;)
<cub> sure, but when you sleep or live life..someone else is awake. :D
<OvenWerks> sort of...
<OvenWerks> we cover the globe, but are not a large bunch
<cub> if not zequence seems to never sleep.
<zequence> I like to sleep 8-9h, if I can :)
<cub> according to the irc logs you seem to not do that very often. ;)
<cub> since I got a baby I'm happy if I get 6 hours sleep.
<zequence> my chat client is on 24/7. It's a irssi cle
<zequence> ..client on my se3rver
<OvenWerks> as is mine
<zequence> I'm not using it only for chatting, but also for logging different channels
<zequence> I have alerts for certain words, so I'm alerted if someone discusses some topics
<cub> your own private PRISM
<zequence> also, channels like #ubuntu-bugs-announce is good to monitor. I get alerts when there are linux-lowlatency bugs
<OvenWerks> speaking of which, I will probably be doing a merge of the menus in the next few days.
<OvenWerks> I think if no one finds any problems with it I will put up versions on my ppa for back to precise
<cub> zequence, on another note, you are not leaning towards moving to Stockholm? The company I work for are looking for linux techs
<zequence> cub: not really. I'm pretty rooted here, at least for the time being. no chance to do work from home? :)
<cub> It should, but management like people on site
<zequence> I'm getting some certificates for another 6 months at most, and after that, the plan is I'll try to find a job somewhere
<OvenWerks> Managment people are odd ducks anyway...
<smartboyhw> Hey zequence OvenWerks 
 * smartboyhw is still bundled under KDE SC packaging:P
<OvenWerks> Whats SC?
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, Software Collection aka the KDE desktop 
<OvenWerks> Ah! You may want to make your own PPA for it. It is a lot easier to test.
<smartboyhw> I have worked on 6 packages today:O
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, the Kubuntu team has a secret PPA;P
<OvenWerks> That would work.
<smartboyhw> Actually, this is the fifth one I'm working on. I do have a sixth.
 * OvenWerks does one at a time
<zequence> OvenWerks: I've put up a PPA for our development work here, so it would be good if you put the menu there, once you're ready to have people test it https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/devel
<zequence> -default-settings is auto built once a day from source there
<zequence> the meta needs to be built manually
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, I do do one at a time. I did 4 already.
<smartboyhw> zequence, auto-built. Nice.
<OvenWerks> That would be the place to put -menu packages for older studio versions too then
<zequence> OvenWerks: backporting is a different issue though
<zequence> we should set up a special ppa for backport testing
<smartboyhw> +1
<OvenWerks> There are not that many people who want it, but I think Luke is doing cinnamon on R
<zequence> I assume the menu package doesn't need any changes for older releases
<OvenWerks> No, just marked as P, Q and R
<OvenWerks> One word difference in the changelog :P
<zequence> I still want to separate development release work from SRU and backporting work
<OvenWerks> OK
<zequence> so, for backports https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/backport-testing
<zequence> OvenWerks: but, if the menu is to be backported, that would mean changing -default-settings as well, right
<zequence> so, that makes it a little bit more complicated
<OvenWerks> No, I would not worry about that.
<OvenWerks> This is more for those installing our metas on top of something else.
<zequence> yet, you can install it on top of Ubuntu Studio too
<OvenWerks> And it would work.
<zequence> we would need to do a SRU on our -default-settings, and make it depend on the menu
<OvenWerks> May not need to.
<OvenWerks> unless we want to update the menu for P
<zequence> Why do you want to test the menu for older releases then?
<OvenWerks> I will work on -settings next for -menu integration.
<OvenWerks> As I said only for those who want to use it on top of another DE/flavour.
<zequence> the problem is if it conflicts with our -default-settings package
<OvenWerks> I will test.
<zequence> it will of course, if both are installing files with the same names that diff
<OvenWerks> The menu itself is a different file
<OvenWerks> in a different directory
<OvenWerks> It does not replace the system menu
<OvenWerks> It merges on top of it
<zequence> Ok, well, one thing at the time then. First we make sure the development version is ok, then worry about backporting it
<smartboyhw> R shouldn't conflict, nor should Q.
<OvenWerks> What I will be doing (If I can) is basically reverting our system menu to stock xfce in settings and using the merge for our menu
<smartboyhw> Not sure for R though.
<zequence> Yeah, well, let's see when the packages are ready for testing :)
<OvenWerks> P is the important one.
<zequence> it's just that we are required to backport one release at the time, in sequence
<zequence> so, beginning with R, then Q and finally P
<OvenWerks> Ok
 * OvenWerks has to go eat and get to work
<OvenWerks> Bye now
<zequence> see you OvenWerks 
<madeinkobaia> Hi fellows
<madeinkobaia1> I am twice here ? :-/
<madeinkobaia1> Strange, I log out/in again...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-20
<micahg> zequence: backports will become easier after Quantal is EOL since LTS + 1 only lasts for 9 months
<OvenWerks> micahg: so just R to P?
<micahg> well, it'll be S -> P once Quantal is EOL (Quantal will outlive Raring by 3 months), but I'm actually referring to 15.04 -> 14.04 after 15.07
<OvenWerks> OK
<micahg> the key is the upgrade path
<OvenWerks> I wish we had someone who was interested and able to work on the whole upgrade thing. Upgrades still seem to break things.
<smartboyhw> zequence, since Ubuntu Members can now ask for money for promoting Ubuntu or flavours, I think you should apply for some and travel to an audio conference or RT conference or somewhat:)
<OvenWerks> zequence: in theory our ISO has all the package information and files needed to install any one of our metas from the ISO. So it should be possible to mount our ISO and run a program that installs the user's choice of meta(s).
<OvenWerks> For example an installer could be in the root directory of the ISO.
<OvenWerks> I think I would not suggest making it runnable from the life session. The idea would be to run it from the partition you wanted to install the meta(s) in.
<OvenWerks> While it could be done from a live session, I think the possiblity of installing to the wrong partition is a good reason not to.
<OvenWerks> I would have to learn a whole lot more than I do now about depends and recommends :P
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh :P
<smartboyhw> Fourth day packaging:O
<OvenWerks> smartboyhw: I am just thinking it would be nice to be able to not download the meta to do the install. Someone who has already downloaded the ISO could install metas without redownloading.
<smartboyhw> OvenWerks, OK...... But how about all the desktop packages ?
<OvenWerks> The alt ISO would be the nicest part.
<OvenWerks> I am talking about someone who already has a desktop they like and just wants to add a meta or two.
<OvenWerks> anyway off to work...
<zequence> OvenWerks: if we add multiple desktop metas, we do it from the ubiquity installer. the user jut selects which meta(s) to install
<zequence> I think Debian import freeze is today
<zequence> ardour3 is still not packaged, but I hope we'll be able to sync it anyway later, as it doens't need any other changes
<smartboyhw> zequence, oh oh.
<smartboyhw> WE WANT ARDOUR3:P
<zequence> I need to get working on the meta part. I still don't know how the session part is set up. I'll do some work on that in the coming days
 * smartboyhw has no time this week.
<smartboyhw> Too busy on KDE:P
<zequence> smartboyhw: probably it will pretty simple to set up, once we've decided how we do it
<zequence> the main problem will probably be artwork
<zequence> if we use multiple DEs, we need artwork for them as well. Since we still ship with a default DE, the pressure is not as hard on the others
<zequence> just needs to look similar
<smartboyhw> Hey madeinkobaia 
<smartboyhw> Good night:P
<madeinkobaia> Hey sorry, see you smartboyhw
<NickG> Hey I've been super busy with a new job and some freelance video production.  Hows everyone been?
<zequence> NickG: hi
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-21
<stochastic> So I'd like to pose a question to the group:  What advantage will the next version of Ubuntu Studio bring to users?
<smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra 
<GNUdru> I've got a problem I don't know how to solve with my Ubuntu Studio 12.04.02 that just occurred in the past few hours.  When I go to do my normal upgrade i get the following message: see http://pastebin.com/btJGJzEP
<DarkEra> hi smartboyhw 
<GNUdru> when i went into the file /var/lib/dpkg/status' near line 5900 package 'libswscale-extra-2 i see....
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, report bug first.
<smartboyhw> Using ubuntu-bug libavutil-extra-51.
<GNUdru> Depends: libavutil-extra-51 (>= 4:0.8.6ubuntu0.12.04.19, libavutil-extra-51 (<< 4:0.8.6ubuntu0.12.04.1-99), libc6 (>= 2.3.6-6~)
<smartboyhw> I think I need to propose SRU for this...
<GNUdru> the error said: `Depends' field, reference to `libavutil-extra-51': version contains ` '
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, made sure you copy it correctly...
<smartboyhw> I mean the Depends line.
<GNUdru> i don't understand what it's trying to say to me or how to fix it.
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, I know how to fix.
<GNUdru> I tried to remove completely libswscale-extra-2 with synaptic but it just keeps giving this same error message.  I don't know how to work around it, so i'm stuck.
<smartboyhw> I do need a sponsor for this though, uh oh...
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, ah no.
<GNUdru> smartboyhw: that was a direct copy and paste so it should be 100% accurate
<smartboyhw> ubuntu-bug libswscale-extra-2
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, ^ run it.
<smartboyhw> in terminal.
<GNUdru> smartboyhw: okay i'm entering it now.  what do you think a good summary would be?
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, now I came to thought of it (when looking at the packaging): Your errors doesn't make sense...
<smartboyhw> Did you enable any extra PPA?
<GNUdru> yes i have a few
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, find the PPA that has libav-extra in it and remove it...
<GNUdru> how do i figure that out smartboyhw?
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, go to the Launchpad page of that PPA.
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, or rather, paste me your /etc/apt/sources.list
<smartboyhw> Let me find it for you.
<GNUdru> i looked and it seems i only have two (related) PPAs turned on, so i guess it must be them.
<GNUdru> https://launchpad.net/~gnuzilla-team/+archive/ppa
<GNUdru> icecat
<smartboyhw> Not the problem it seems...
<smartboyhw> s/problem/this PPA/
<kubotu> smartboyhw meant: "Not the this PPA it seems..."
<GNUdru> do you think i should finish inputing the bug?
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, sure.
<GNUdru> what would you suggest for a summary smartboyhw?
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, "my upgrade of package failed in Ubuntu 12.04.2""
<smartboyhw> zequence, better ideas? ^
<GNUdru> should i say Ubuntu or Ubuntu studio?
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, Ubuntu Studio .
<GNUdru> so this is what i've got: "upgrade of package failed in  Ubuntu Studio 12.04.02"
<GNUdru> pressing the next button now
<GNUdru> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libav-extra/+bug/1193394
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1193394 in libav-extra (Ubuntu) "Upgrade of package failed in Ubuntu Studio 12.04.02" [Undecided,New]
<smartboyhw> OK.
<GNUdru> oh i should add the contents of  /etc/apt/sources.list
<GNUdru> deb http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu precise main
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, don't post it here!!!!
<smartboyhw> Post it in the bug (as an attachment)...
<GNUdru> i did already
<GNUdru> not as an attachment but in the description
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, I want the WHOLE sources.list.
<GNUdru> okay the bug is updated with the contents of /etc/apt/sources.list
<GNUdru> smartboyhw: ^
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, you removed the PPAs?
<GNUdru> sorry smartboyhw i was aftk and just returned.  Yes I'd removed them since you'd mentioned that could be the problem, but that didn't change the error message
<GNUdru> i'm thinking i must have conflicting sources 
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, hmm.
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, actually, why did you enable proposed?
<smartboyhw> It wasn't the determining factor but.
<GNUdru> i don't recall, but i could disable it
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, please do.
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, now I don't know what the problem is....
<GNUdru> i
<GNUdru> i'm looking for where to disable proposed
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, Software properties
<GNUdru> okay, done
<GNUdru> still saying 
<GNUdru> The following packages have unmet dependencies: libswscale-extra-2: Depends: libavutil-extra-51 (>= 4:0.8.6ubuntu0.12.04.19, libavutil-extra-51 (<< 4:0.8.6ubuntu0.12.04.1-99) but 4:0.8.6ubuntu0.12.04.1 is installed
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, the problem is that there should be no .19, no -99 ............................
<smartboyhw> That's the weirdest depedencies.
<GNUdru> maybe its a typo?
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, can't be.
<GNUdru> don
<smartboyhw> It is completely wrong..
<smartboyhw> zequence, any ideas? Seriously? ^
<GNUdru> don't the package maintainers ever make typos like that?
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, but when I look at this package there's no typo.
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, did you run sudo apt-get update after removing ppa and -proposed?
<GNUdru> no because i removed them through the gui
<GNUdru> should i now?
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, run it.
<smartboyhw> You must.
<smartboyhw> Using gui doesn't mean it will run it for you.
<GNUdru> running now...
<GNUdru> done
<smartboyhw> GNUdru, retry.
<GNUdru> still get: 
<GNUdru> dpkg: error: parsing file '/var/lib/dpkg/status' near line 5900 package 'libswscale-extra-2':
<GNUdru>  `Depends' field, reference to `libavutil-extra-51': version contains ` '
<GNUdru> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)
<GNUdru> any guesses zequence?
<GNUdru> i don't need video right now, so if I could just remove it I would so that I can have my ability to install/uninstall/upgrade back
<GNUdru> ah, but i guess its audio (which I DO need) not just video
<GNUdru> I tried to remove completely libswscale-extra-2 with synaptic but it won't remove it and it won't repair it.  I'm stuck
<GNUdru> i should say that the specific library is video which i don't need right now (and if i could figure a way to remove it I would) but when I try to remove it, other libraries get involved and some of them are audio which i DO need
<GNUdru> it appears that there is no way to fix this via Synaptic
<GNUdru> and i'm limited in my cli skills and knowledge
<GNUdru> i'm stuck
<GNUdru> if anyone has input, please post it and even if i'm aftk for awhile i'll get it.  Thanks ahead of time.
<GNUdru> looks like if no one has any more ideas i'll just have to reinstall.  :-(
<OvenWerks> zequence: I have set my version of ubuntustudio-menu to rpopose a merge. I don't know if I am allowed to review my own work and do the merge or not.
<OvenWerks> You can add me as a reviewer and I will do the merge if that is ok.
<GNUdru> I  reinstalled U.S. 12.04.2 since couldn't solve the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libav-extra/+bug/1193394
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1193394 in libav-extra (Ubuntu) "Upgrade of package failed in Ubuntu Studio 12.04.02" [Undecided,New]
<OvenWerks> For those interested in how the new menu meta works:
<OvenWerks> http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/menu.html
<OvenWerks> If you have viewed this page before... try refresh :)
<OvenWerks> madeinkobaia: I don't know how to open the PM in this irc client
<madeinkobaia> OvenWerks: No worries, it was for not disturb the main conversation here, I finalize a banner for our social networks, I would like to have your opinion, same for the other here, its on my g+ profile now : https://plus.google.com/u/0/112937756282972852089
<madeinkobaia> Its a new version, really different from the previous I show here last time.
<OvenWerks> It certainly works for me
<OvenWerks> The cut COF looks even more like the old tape reels.
<OvenWerks> Ah, because it is reverse bg to fg colours.
<OvenWerks> That is a neat effect.
<madeinkobaia> Thanks a lot for the feedback Len. If any else have the time, feel free to take a look. 
<madeinkobaia> OvenWerks: You told me about a need for create an icon who suggested the port on KDE, you can tell me more by mail if you want...
<OvenWerks> madeinkobaia: ok, I will but it may be a while. I am getting the menu finished and released right now. Then I have the settings package to make match that :)
<zequence> hi everyone
<OvenWerks> Hello
<zequence> midsummers eve today
<zequence> big thing in Sweden
<OvenWerks> solstice
<zequence> yeah
<zequence> we just call it midsummer
<OvenWerks> zequence: how do I answer a PM in irssi?
<OvenWerks> does /msg work? or is that just a one line thing?
<zequence> OvenWerks: It's just like a channel. If you PM someone, or someone PMs you, it'll show up as a different channel
<zequence> try /query 
<zequence> or, /query <nick>
<OvenWerks> ok. I'll have to play with it.
<OvenWerks> yup that works but he is gone and we did it in channel anyway.
<OvenWerks> next time I will know, thanks
<OvenWerks> actually, should you ever need it... /query -networkname nick
<OvenWerks> irssi tries to fill in the networkname for you though
 * OvenWerks is on two networks.
<zequence> OvenWerks: As far as merges go, I think it's just about if you're a team member or not. Since our changes are not uploads, and past commits are retrievable, I suppose we have the freedom to mess up things. 
<OvenWerks> Ok, so I can just do the merge then
<OvenWerks> The package has been built and tested.
<OvenWerks> lintian seems reasonably happy with it too
<zequence> OvenWerks: if the branch is owned by ubuntustudio-dev, or that team has the right to upload, then yes
<OvenWerks> I will.
<zequence> I mean, push
<zequence> I'll look forward to trying the package out
<OvenWerks> There are some screen shots.. link above and in an email I just sent.
<zequence> I think from the user point of view, it is one of the strong features of Ubuntu Studio right now
<zequence> the custom menu, taht is
<OvenWerks> I think that and adding a meta installer would be a good combo
<zequence> Yeah, we need to add some features to the ubiquity installer
<OvenWerks> There seem to be people on LAU who would be interested.
<OvenWerks> Yes that too, but I was thinking of something that could be run on an all ready installed system
<zequence> you mean like Precise?
<zequence> adding missing metas?
<zequence> or, the ones that didn't exist back then
<OvenWerks> I mean like kubuntu/lubuntu/etc.
<OvenWerks> other flavours
<OvenWerks> After -menu and -settings is all done I will look at that... if something else doesn't pop up
<zequence> well, I think if we can get more than one DE workable, we add those as choices in the ubiquity installer
<zequence> but, it'll be just having the choice of installing one or more of ubuntustudio-deskop*
<zequence> the user may want to use more than one
<zequence> and they should all be able to coexist
<zequence> so, first of all, we need to look at assembling the metas
<zequence> like: ubuntustudio-desktop-kde, ubuntustudio-desktop-gnome
<OvenWerks> yes
<zequence> and probably have those depend on corresponding ubuntustudio-default-settings-kde, ubuntustudio-default-settings-gnome
<zequence> unless you can just add any existing DE, with our menu, artwork and settings
<OvenWerks> Any of the ubuntustudio stuff install at ISO install time should be done by ubiquity.
<OvenWerks> I think/hope we can have the -settings coexist in one package.
<zequence> I've still not looked into the details, but I'm assuming a separate session must exist for the "ubuntustudio" DE
<zequence> one for XFCE, one for KDE, one for Gnome, etc
<OvenWerks> Kubuntu doesn't
<OvenWerks> but we would need one for each of our de sessions
<zequence> default artwork?
<OvenWerks> I think we should see if we can get rid of the plain xfce session.
<zequence> yes, I agree
<OvenWerks> kubuntu does not have a KDE session for example.
<OvenWerks> Art work can be default.
<OvenWerks> I don't know if it would be a great idea to have a different default for each DE or not. Should be do-able though
<zequence> I guess each DE has its own problems, and those need to be solved separately to some extent
<zequence> It's great that you've been able to make the menu work for all the "menu based" DEs
<OvenWerks> Ya, I learned a lot. There are some parts of the standard that some DEs don't follow
<OvenWerks> <exclude> is not universal for example.
<OvenWerks> it doesn't work in lubuntu or gnome/cinnamon/etc.
<zequence> is that a freedesktop thing?
<OvenWerks> but works there does work in xfce and KDE.
<OvenWerks> <Exclude> is an official element on the freedesktop website
<zequence> ok, too bad Gnome and LXDE are not supporting that then
<OvenWerks> I had to use <And><Or> and <Not>
<OvenWerks> I suspect creating something to parse menu files and all the possible merge files correctly is not easy.
<zequence> It's not good that they all seemingly follow the same standard, but one is not supporting the other
<zequence> the same menus should work in all of them
<OvenWerks> Ya. I don't know how much testing they do.
<OvenWerks> I don't know how wise it is to have more than one way of doing the same thing either
<OvenWerks> Maybe XDG should just have one way of including/excluding items
<OvenWerks> Just use the one everyone supports.
<zequence> just had the weirdest bug. Not sure which application caused it. My left mouse button was unusable, until I had closed down the malfunctioning application. Could have been nautilus or evince
<zequence> Ctrl+Q for most applications, to quit, but for evince, Ctrk+W
<zequence> Ctrl+W*
<zequence> I have a google alert for "Ubuntu Studio" among other things
<zequence> this is what I got today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlSvPh2sRvU
<zequence> pretty groovy, once you get further into the song
<OvenWerks> I'll have to listen to it in another DE. I havn't got audio working in lubuntu.
<OvenWerks> There is no pavucontrol even though PA is running
<OvenWerks> PA was trying to use hw:0
<OvenWerks> hw:0 is what I use for midi
<zequence> OvenWerks: just install it, if it's not there. and from the terminal: pavucontrol
<OvenWerks> Ya, I did.
<zequence> weird
<OvenWerks> I think what happened is that lubuntu comes with out pulse, but our meta pulled it in... maybe with the pa-jack bridge
<zequence> alsa would do that, but pulse usually doesn't show stuff that doesn't at least do stereo audio
<OvenWerks> It is not midi only, it is just all I use it for so it has none of its outputs connected 
<zequence> did you reboot in between?
<OvenWerks> no
<zequence> that could be it
<OvenWerks> Soon as I installed pavucontrol and turned hw:0 off I had sound.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, whichever metas has the pa-jack bridge in it should also have pavucontrol in it.
<zequence> some kind of PA mixer anyway
<OvenWerks> Ya, kde has it's own. Maybe unity/gnome does too.
<zequence> getting late. 2am. be back tomorrow :)
<OvenWerks> GN
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-22
<OvenWerks> got my kde partition back.
<OvenWerks> micahg: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-menu is ready for release.
<OvenWerks> micahg: I know you are not around right now, just posting before I forget.
<OvenWerks> zequence: Where would I put a readme that documents where I have put what files and why?
<OvenWerks> zequence: I have three packages that interact or at least have parts of the menu setup.
<OvenWerks> The icon theme is going to become just what it says, a theme.
<OvenWerks> I am thinking Mish can add and fix icons as he has time.
<OvenWerks> The icons that are part of the menu and get installed into hicolor are in -menu. The ubuntustudio-icon-theme will override these as it is developed.
<OvenWerks> -settings has the desktop files for the extra software items and the stock xfce menu config file with it's bug fixed.
<OvenWerks> -settings will depend on -menu. -icon-theme will be a dep of settings too (already is I think).
<OvenWerks> zequence: just finished auditing -settings, there look to be no clashes between our current menu and the new one.
<OvenWerks> That is the -menu package shoulld install on top of our current -settings package withouth ==
<OvenWerks> (ga) without rying to install the same file on top of itself.
<OvenWerks> So it would be safe to leave the settings pkg as is for now.
<OvenWerks> GN
 * Noskcaj is away: I'm either at school or soccer. or i just don't like you.
<Noskcaj> stupid xchat
<smartboyhw> Hey madeinkobaia 
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Hey fine, and you ?
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, fine too.
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Great, want to take a look on our future social network banner ? Its a new version...
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, great:)
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: here a preview on my g+ : https://plus.google.com/u/0/112937756282972852089
<smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, it does look nice:)
<madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Cool, I will leave a post when its on line on our sites.
 * OvenWerks is relearning bash scripting :P
<OvenWerks> Anyone know much about apt or apt-get? Normally if I do a "download only" it wants to put the file in the PWD. Is there a way to have apt-get work in two steps? Run once to downlaod and again to install those packages?
<OvenWerks> Why? the download portion has % at the begining of the line which is perfect a progress bar, but the bar vanishs at 100%... so I could have a second bar start at that time, but if the package is already downloaded then the first bar will sit at zero till the end and the second one ... who knows.
<OvenWerks> I would like to run a progress bar for download and a second for install.
<madeinkobaia> OvenWerks: I am not sure to understand, why download packages if you don't want to install them at the same time. You can download packages separately as well. By my side I use aptitude (not apt-get) With aptitude you can do "sudo aptitude download package" and then install it.
<OvenWerks> I want to download on one progress bar and install on a second. But I think I will have to use sed to parse apt-get's output to run the progress bar.
<OvenWerks> madeinkobaia: I think I will just output the text from apt-get to a text window. Not as pretty, but better representation of what is going on.
<madeinkobaia> OvenWerks: ok : )
<DarkEra> madeinkobaia: if you have time, would you be so kind and let me know your email :)
<madeinkobaia> DarkEra: Hi mate, all my infos are on the ubuntu wiki :P anyone can have my mail : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/madeinkobaia
<DarkEra> madeinkobaia: doh... why didn't i think about that myself and look there... lol. Thanks :)
<madeinkobaia> DarkEra: lol, no worries, that happens to me often as well :)
<DarkEra> :)
<OvenWerks> Well, as it happens, zenity is part of the Ubuntu base and so all flavours have it installed. But...
<OvenWerks> The progress bar does not work in all flavours :(
<OvenWerks> It just puts up a box saying het I busy...
<OvenWerks> So I guess it doesn't matter too much if I have a progress bar in a GUI. I might just use the terminal one.
<OvenWerks> For those who care. What I am working on is a ubuntustudio meta installer.
<OvenWerks> So it has to work with any DE/flavour.
<OvenWerks> I am finding that gksudo is also not on all flavours... so It may be best to drop to using sudo and more terminal stuff. 
#ubuntustudio-devel 2013-06-23
<OvenWerks> Lubuntu comes without dialog, I can't believe it.
<OvenWerks> actually so does server, which is even more amazing.
<OvenWerks> anyway, feel free to look at:
<OvenWerks> http://www.ovenwerks.net/UStudiodocs/metainstall.html
<micahg> OvenWerks: ok, I'll have a look
<OvenWerks> micahg: Thank you
<zequence> OvenWerks: Why are you making a script to install Ubuntu Studio metas?
<zequence> Noskcaj: about the sticker. madeinkobaia is our art lead. he could probably make one for you, if you asked him
<zequence> he's not in right now, but if you want to email him, his email is madeinkobaia@gmail.com
<Noskcaj> zequence, when the build is closer to done, i will.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-16
<OvenWerks> (simplify things)
<OvenWerks> Actually this seems to be only three files:
<OvenWerks>  /etc/grub.d/09_lowlatency Makes Lowlatency kernel default
<OvenWerks> /etc/sysctl.d/50-ubuntustudio.conf sets swappiness = 10 and has some commented out settings we could not confirm.
<OvenWerks>  /lib/udev/rules.d/40-timer-permissions.rules Allows user with audio to set grain on rtc0 and hpet. I think I have heard that "properly" coded applications don't need it... but there are bound to be some that still do.
<OvenWerks> This last one needs to be remembered if jackd starts getting RT permisions some other way than the audio group.
<OvenWerks> zequence: instead of a new package, the first one should really be a part of the lowatency kernel... but that would probably mean we would have to maintain it :P
<OvenWerks> The other two could be part of -audio-core
<OvenWerks> Though to be honest, I would like to see swappiness = 10 upstreamed as default for generic as well because any feed back I have gotten has been this is good for all desktop work.
<OvenWerks> However the truth is I probably don't know enough about what I am talking about.
<OvenWerks> Thereason swappiness matters in audio is a little more complex. Many audio applications lock memory so it can't be swapped and are not a problem. However, some programs that don't do audio themselves, but still have jack ports open for monitoring and config reasons don't (qjackctl for example). If the GUI of these programs gets swapped and a button is clicked, that jack port gets frozen long enough to cause audible xruns. In my opinion this is re
<OvenWerks> It seems I found even the pager being swapped out caused problems if I needed to switch from workspace to another.
<OvenWerks> zequence: Actually, those three files could be moved to -controls itself if we load it by default.
<OvenWerks> zequence: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/plain/Documentation/scheduler/sched-deadline.txt?id=712e5e34aef449ab680b35c0d9016f59b0a4494c
<OvenWerks> ^^^ this is new since kernel 3.14. Can we use this to improve lowlatency?
<OvenWerks> swappiness==0 is handled in a unique way from all other values: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=8582cb96b0bfd6891766d8c30d759bf21aad3b4d
<OvenWerks> Is there a reason we do not include jack.tools?
<zequence> OvenWerks: We can worry about uploads later, once we get going with this cycle development. I'm trying to get upload rights, so hoping that will sort itself out within the week or so
<zequence> You bring up a lot of things there. Let me get started, and I'll comment later
<OvenWerks> zequence_: no problem, I am not rushing anything, just doing some research. From reading though some things, I would say there is zero chance of changing swappiness by default upstream. It has already been discussed to death upstream and not changed.
<zequence_> OvenWerks: only a matter of time until rt privilege is solved http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/Cgroups
<zequence> But still, until it is fixed, we should make rt administration easy. On trusty, specifically
<zequence> We do a SRU to make -controls at all usable on trusty. A more enhanced version, we either backport or do a SRU - depending on if we are allowed to SRU, or not
<zequence> By the time of 16.04 I would assume things have changed
<zequence> ..so we can drop realtime privilege administration
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-17
<OvenWerks> zequence: by realtime admin. Do you mean add user to audio and make sure /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf is there and named right? Or are there other things that need doing?
<OvenWerks> Basically look to see if things are right and tell the user things are good or they are not ... can I fix it for you?
<zequence_> OvenWerks: I'm a bit busy right now, but once I get a chance, I'll grab the code I have for that
<zequence> I spent the entire day yesterday trying to update the lowlatency kernels, having problems with my platform and internet. Finally, when I only needed to do the build commands, it was bed time :P
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-18
<zequence> OvenWerks: i was just looking at what I had done a few months back ago for controls, and that was mostly about learning how to use appindicator, controlling jack through dbus, GTK.. nothing production ready
<zequence> But, that's for later anyway
<zequence> Let me see if I can find that old stuff on realtime administration I was talking about too
<zequence> OvenWerks: Here's a script I found googling. I changed some var names only. http://paste.ubuntu.com/7663703/
<zequence> It lists "normal" users
<zequence> One could of course rewrite it for python
<zequence> It looks at two things, UID, compared to min and max settings, and if the user can login
<zequence> let me start a new branch for a complete rewrite, and I'll add some stuff there under a folder "resources"
<zequence> bzr at launchpad seems to be down, at least I can't do anything with it
<zequence> So, another hour well spent..
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-19
<DalekSec> zequence: The developers meeting about your uploader privs cancelled?
<joey_> hi
<joey_> HI
<joey_> hi?
<SonikkuAmerica> Ohai
<SonikkuAmerica> What brings ya here?
<joey_> I'm interested
<SonikkuAmerica> In developing? Have anything in mind?
<joey_> Well
<joey_> For the moment I'm interested in the process because I do not have a lot of skill in programming
<SonikkuAmerica> That's fine. I don't either. :D
<joey_> Uh.
<joey_> :D
<SonikkuAmerica> No really, I'm here just to make sure everything runs smoothly. Mainly because of a sister flavor called Xubuntu
<joey_> Ah yeah Xubuntu.
<joey_> What exactly do you do ?
<SonikkuAmerica> Well... my last major contribution was making sure the thing would boot from hard disk properly on UEFI systems
<joey_> Uh yeah
<joey_> My OS boots way faster now that 14.04 is out !
<joey_> That's cool.
<SonikkuAmerica> Well the thing was that with 13.10, the UEFI system searched for /EFI/ubuntu/ instead of /EFI/ubuntustudio in the EFI system partition
<SonikkuAmerica> hence a blank GRUB prompt
<joey_> I didn't know about that
<joey_> Always had problem with UEFI
<joey_> with Ubuntu studio or not
<joey_> Now it's fine
<SonikkuAmerica> Yeah. A couple of us did some testing with that... mine was more independent testing though
<joey_> Mhhh
<joey_> What OS do you use ?
<SonikkuAmerica> However... if you want to check out our release schedule, which was your original question (I think), check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<joey_> Xubuntu ?
<SonikkuAmerica> joey_: Normal Ubuntu with Unity (but I have VMs of some variants and Lubuntu on a couple other machines)
<joey_> Cool
<joey_> I was actually interested with...
<joey_> working on the Ubuntu Studio website, maybe.
<SonikkuAmerica> Oh, the website!
<SonikkuAmerica> I would speak to zequence or ScottL when they're online.
<SonikkuAmerica> They're the website team.
<DalekSec> Likely that knome does wordpress related stuff for US.
<joey_> ?
<SonikkuAmerica> Yeah, Unit193 is partly right
<SonikkuAmerica> err, DalekSec
<SonikkuAmerica> (when you have 1000 different nicks it's hard to tell)
<joey_> Uh, I', confused
<SonikkuAmerica> The theme you see on our site is done by knome, who is the head of the Xubuntu project.
<joey_> What does that mean ?
<joey_> Woah
<SonikkuAmerica> He has the Wordpress-foo that most of us don't have
<DalekSec> SonikkuAmerica: Former, but that's not important.
<SonikkuAmerica> He retired???!!!
<joey_> "Pasi Lallinaho" ?
<joey_> oh shimmer project yah
<joey_> I love bluebird
<SonikkuAmerica> Yeah, that's him
<SonikkuAmerica> (knome)
<DalekSec> SonikkuAmerica: End of term, he didn't go for it again.  ochosi is lead now.
<SonikkuAmerica> Oh, OK. I trust ochosi, he'll do just fine :D
<joey_> The theme for xubuntu.org is fine
<joey_> I wouldn't change it
<SonikkuAmerica> I know the Ubuntu Studio Web site theme is similar, but I think that reflects the relationship Ubuntu Studio has with Xubuntu
<joey_> You think?
<joey_> I don't see it honestly
<SonikkuAmerica> Well let's see - Similarities between Ubuntu Studio and Xubuntu:
<SonikkuAmerica> (1) Desktop env. - Both use XFCE (or Xfce if you insist)
<joey_> oh that
<joey_> the OS sure
<joey_> I was thinking about the websites
<joey_> haha
<joey_> but you did mean the website
<SonikkuAmerica> (2) Core Utilities and PKG mgmt. - Both use dpkg/apt and the same coreutils as any other Linux distro.
<joey_> my bad
<SonikkuAmerica> I did?
<SonikkuAmerica> No, the relationship between the 2 flavors, not between the 2 Web sties
<SonikkuAmerica> *sites
<joey_> ah :)
<joey_> Yes they feel the same aside from the studio workflow
<joey_> audio is killer on ubuntu studio
<SonikkuAmerica> And the kernel differences
<joey_> yes
<joey_> How's life ?
<joey_> =D
<SonikkuAmerica> Huh? Oh.
<SonikkuAmerica> I think I fell asleep
<joey_> Haha
<SonikkuAmerica> If you can read this, I typed this sentence blind
<joey_> Oh cool, can you read this too, blind typing is fun !!!
<joey_> Uhhh :D
<SonikkuAmerica> Pfft.
<SonikkuAmerica> But anyway, I gotta get to bed, so yeah, give zequence or ScottL a ring (and maybe knome along with 'em)
<zequence> OvenWerks: check out lp:ubuntustudio-controls. I've removed everything, except some interesting files, and added a couple of resources for development.
<zequence> I have more, but nothing in such shape that I'd like to put it up currently. Maybe next week.
<zequence> The jackdbus code is based on jack_control, btw. Haven't made that clear in the code
<joey_> Hi
<joey_> Hi zequence
<joey_> hi
<joey_> i love you
<holstein> joey_: are you in the correct channel? friend?
<joey_> yes friend
<joey_> i love you
<joey_> It's unprofessional isn't it ?
<joey_> I am so sorry.
<joey__> hi
<joey__> hi?
<joey__> :/
<joey__> how do i offer my interest?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-20
<joey__> sight
<joey__> no?
<joey__> alright..
<joey__> that's ok..
<holstein> joey__: you want to offer what?
<holstein> !contribute
<ubottu> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://community.ubuntu.com and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<joey__> but im here
<joey__> uh
<joey__> I joined the mailing list uh
<joey__> and IRC channel
<holstein> sure
<holstein> and, good on you :)
<holstein> joey__: what are you interested in? you said the website.. have you contacted knome?
<joey__> no
<joey__> actually
<joey__> I was told that knome wasnt the person to contact
<holstein> joey__: ok.. so, who were you told to contact?
<joey__> um
<joey__> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/WebsiteTeam
<joey__> I'
<joey__> I'm not sure where to start
<holstein> joey__: who were you told to contact?
<joey__> um zequence
<joey__> here.
<joey__> SonikkuAmerica suggested
<holstein> zequence is the team lead.. have you talked to him?
<SonikkuAmerica> Yeah, I suggested he talk to zequence
<holstein> we always need help with documentation..
<joey__> well
<joey__> I said "Hi" to him
<joey__> on irc
<joey__> ah i see
<holstein> joey__: you can ask him specificallly about contributing to the site. but, i suggest trying to contact knome
<joey__> he has a website
<joey__> Why do I not see Knome on the wiki for Ubuntu Studio dev
<holstein> joey__: i would just ask him.. not sure.. maybe he's not part of the team any longer
<holstein> joey__: mabye its a mistake
<holstein> regardless, zequence will ultimately be the contact
<holstein> joey__: do you have wordpress experience? 
<joey__> Well
<holstein> joey__: would you want to do packaging? backporting? documentation?
<joey__> mmhhh
<holstein> joey__: this is a small team.. we could use help upstream.. for example, if you wanted to get involved in packaging, you would do that in main ubuntu, not really here
<joey__> I don't have the enough knowledge for packaging and backporting
<holstein> joey__: also, backporting.. you would likely have to go upstream for that too
<holstein> anything you do up there basicallly trickles down
<joey__> enough*
<holstein> but, we have specific needs for studio.. testing iso's is helpful
<SonikkuAmerica> Yes, we always need QA here
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<SonikkuAmerica> (and everywhere for that matter)
<holstein> joey__: ^
<holstein> we have no testing milestone currently.. but you can look there and get an idea
<joey__> Packaging has to do with ?
<joey__> getting stuff in .deb
<joey__> ?
<joey__> ppa and stuff
<SonikkuAmerica> joey__: Making software installable via the Software Center, Synaptic, apt-get
<joey__> yeah
<holstein> !ppa
<ubottu> A Personal Package Archive (PPA) can provide alternate software not normally available in the offical Ubuntu repositories - Looking for a PPA? See https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas - WARNING: PPAs are unsupported third-party packages, and you use them at your own risk. See also !addppa and !ppa-purge
<joey__> looks hard
<holstein> joey__: ppas are actually not supported
<joey__> yeah i know
<holstein> joey__: then, it will not be for ppa's
<joey__> Sure
<holstein> joey__: well, we are glad you are here, anyways..
<joey__> But I have to learn make / compiling right ?
<SonikkuAmerica> My philosophy is the more packages we make installable without the need for PPAs, the better
<joey__> I looked into a book by Stallman and I was just lost
<joey__> I see
<joey__> One I would love to be available by default is Infinality
<SonikkuAmerica> I wouldn't read his books...
<joey__> Lol ?
<joey__> :D
<joey__> Why is that ?
<holstein> joey__: getting packages in upstream is the easiest.. into debian
<joey__> yeah
<SonikkuAmerica> joey__: RMS tends to be an extremist, is all ... </digression>
<joey__> Doesn't make him wrong
<joey__> Sadly
<SonikkuAmerica> Pretty much build package, dump in sid, show up in Ubuntu
<joey__> But yeah
<joey__> Extremist I agree
<joey__> So how do I learn that ?
<holstein> that?
<holstein> joey__: packaging? 
<joey__> yeah
<holstein> https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging
<joey__> oh boy
<joey__> alright
<SonikkuAmerica> holstein: Thanks for that btw... Now I know how to build packages for my source code. Does it matter what language the program is written in? Where does it factor into the package building?
<SonikkuAmerica> (I'm a packaging noob myself)
<joey__> Ok
<joey__> So I contact zequence for the website?
<joey__> helloo?
<Noskcaj> joey__, yeah, contact zequence for website stuff
<Noskcaj> and ping me if you have any packaging questions
<joey__> Oh hi!
<joey__> Alright
<joey_> mhhh
<Noskcaj> joey_, Use a tool like dh-make to make skeleton packaging files, then fill in the various details
<Noskcaj> (reply from earlier)
<joey_> thanks and goodnight !
<joey__> hi
<SonikkuAmerica> Oh look who's back. :D
<OvenWerks> zequence: I have been doing some nore reading on RT and the linux kernel. http://lwn.net/Articles/572740/ Was quite interesting, but seems to missing some of the perspective.
<OvenWerks> It says the RT patch will be finished one way or the other this year. Either the whole thing will be added to the mainline kernel or what is already in tyhe mainline will be deemed "good enough".
<OvenWerks> While this seesm like the end of Full RT as a patch... http://embeddedenea.com/2014/03/17/speculations-on-real-time-linux-future/ adds a little perspective
<OvenWerks> It basically says that Computer Hardware has changed the way RT can be achieved in such a way that the RT patch is becoming obsolete anyway.
<OvenWerks> The big change being multi-core systems and the ability to do RT virualization on a group of cores that have been removed from the Kernel's scheduler.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-21
<joey__> hi
<joey__> im just gonna stand here
<SonikkuAmerica> Don't tire your legs out. Here, have my office chair.
<joey__> Oh thanks man
<joey__> I appreciate it
<joey__> It's comfy man
<joey__> By the way, is the ubuntu studio website hosted with wordpress ?
<joey__> not hosted by
<joey__> but created with
<SonikkuAmerica> Yeah.
<joey__> I see
<joey__> So I would need knowledge of PHP right ?
<SonikkuAmerica> Mmmmhhhhh
<SonikkuAmerica> You see, web administration isn't exactly my fortÃ©
<joey__> zequence seems like a busy guy
<joey__> am i wrong ?
<SonikkuAmerica> No, not at all - he is usually zipping around at breakneck speeds
<joey__> translate that
<joey__> "zipping around"
<joey__> sorry, english isn't my first language
<joey__> expressions may confuse me
<SonikkuAmerica> going fast
<joey__> what did you mean by that ?
<SonikkuAmerica> He's very busy
<SonikkuAmerica> You're not wrong.
<holstein> you dont need any specific knowledge to help maintain the content on the site
<joey__> ah
<joey__> :)
<joey__> so uh
<joey__> i dont know what to say
<holstein> ?
<joey__> well
<joey__> id like to do stuff
<joey__> i have ideas
<joey__> but i dont know what im suppose to say
<holstein> !contribute
<ubottu> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://community.ubuntu.com and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<Noskcaj> joey__, Do you know a language other than english?
<joey__> Yes
<Noskcaj> We always need more translators
<joey__> It's french...
<Noskcaj> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-fr
<Noskcaj> Also, bug triage, testing, and packaging always need help. What would you like to work on?
<joey__> Mmmhhh
<joey__> Aahh I have so many ideas and I know so little
<joey__> I may need more time to think
<Noskcaj> ok
<joey_> how does the mailing list work ?
<joey_> all I get is the day's topic
<holstein> joey_: when joined, you can send messages and the joined recieve, and can reply.. 
<joey_> how do I join then ?
<holstein> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel see "subcribe" at bottom
<joey_> I did
<joey_> But I only see the topic
<joey_> You usually see post and replys
<joey_> Kind of like in a forum
<holstein> if someone posts..
<joey_> so no one is posting ?
<holstein> joey_: what list are you referring to?
<joey_> uh
<joey_> list? i said list ?
<joey_> well subject of the mail is ubuntu-studio-devel Digest, Vol 86, Issue 15
<holstein> joey_: i gave links for both the user and development lists.. but, i'll just send to both.. as a test.. are you subscribed?
<holstein> joey_: you can select getting a digest.. which is just that.. a list of the activity, rather than each individual message
<joey_> us to devel yes
<joey_> hold on
<holstein> that can be changed..
<holstein> joey_: do i need to send a test message for you?
<joey_> yes but wait
<joey_> let me log in and check settings
<joey_> where do i log in ha ?
<holstein> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
<joey_> yeah im there already
<joey_> but how do i log in
<holstein> joey_: you can unsubscribe, and re subscribe without the digest option..
<joey_> oh...
<joey_> Ahhhhh
<joey_> ok
<joey_> authentification failed
<joey_> :/
<holstein> yeah.. you'll need the password..should be easy to recover
<joey_> i have it
<joey_> but alright..
#ubuntustudio-devel 2014-06-22
<elfy> zequence: well ... it would appear that any talk of testing is falling on deaf ears, not sure what you want to do about that
<zequence> elfy: I'll try to get some people involved in that, once we're past feature spec.
<zequence> Been a long weekend again
<elfy> yea - I know the feeling :)
<zequence> We've had midsummer celebrations, which is kind more or less 2nd biggest after Christmas in Sweden
<elfy> awesome 
<elfy> I used to do that at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge_Free_Festival
<zequence> Nice
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-16
<Sakrecoer> hi guys! sorry for the radio silence..
<Sakrecoer> i've been traveling
<Sakrecoer> i have a lot to catch up with so it will take some time before i react...
<Sakrecoer> i went to spain recently, barcelona more precisely.
<Sakrecoer> while i was there i got invited to present ubuntustudio to a graphic design bureau..
<Sakrecoer> they liked it very much. i think the economic situation of spain is a perfekt moment to push it down there.
<Sakrecoer> anyways, just a heads up to tell you i haven't bailed out on you or anything... and why i'm so behind with the current status of devlopment..
<zequence> Sakrecoer: It's been pretty slow here, so you haven't missed much.
<zequence> I just added new tables for the freedesktop cateroization. You can find out on the mail list.
<Sakrecoer> ok :) i'm off reading those mails! have good awoken time y'all!
<cub> Hi zequence , I had a brief conversation on Facebook with a Doug Whitfield form  Music Manumit who wanted to do an interview with someone from the US team. He also had wrote on the US FB page.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-17
<zequence> cub: Thanks, cub. I will check that out.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-18
<zequence> midsummer festivities coming up, so I won't be very active for a couple of days :P
<zequence> Not with development, anyway
#ubuntustudio-devel 2015-06-21
<OvenWerk1> looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/UbuntuStudioMenu#preview and am wondering if we are removing the media playback menu to put these in the audio and video menus.
<OvenWerk1> zequence: Something to watch for is that running newer Ardour4 gives me:
<OvenWerk1> [WARNING]: Video-monitor 'xjadeo' is too old. Please install xjadeo version 0.7.7 or later. http://xjadeo.sf.net/
<OvenWerk1> This is not a problem for W, but so far as I know Ardour4 will come as a package "ardour3" and it is an issue for the LTS.
<OvenWerk1> More things with Ardour... Ardour 4.0.0 and Ardour 3.* share the same file structure and sessions can go back and forth without breaking (Good). However, 4.1 will change that. Sessions created in 4.1 will load ok in 3.*/4.0.0 but will be missing the trim control and so the levels for some things may be off (busses in some cases).
<OvenWerk1> The feeling of the Ardour devs is that Ardour3 while fixing much of Ardour2 problems added many bugs as well and no one should be using A3 for anything.
<OvenWerk1> A3 is the ardourwithmidi beta pretty much and that is why mixbus3 will be ardour4.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-20
 * OvenWerk1 has a new granddaughter today ...
<OvenWerk1> \o/
<krytarik> !conga-rats | OvenWerk1
<ubottu> OvenWerk1: â« samba rumba bueno la conga cha cha cha
<OvenWerk1> :)
<autumna> omg OvenWerk1 congrats! :d
<sakrecoer> \o/ <3 \(^^,)/ HIPHOP HURRA OvenWerk1 !!!!!
<sakrecoer> Awesome by nature! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA2_-eQ26tY
<sakrecoer> !conga-rats | \o/
<ubottu> \o/: â« samba rumba bueno la conga cha cha cha
<sakrecoer> i love you ubottu !!!
<sakrecoer> kryten, does ubottu know more happy songs like that? can i haz the list of ubottu poems?
<sakrecoer> !cucaracha | sakrecoer
<krytarik> !factoids | sakrecoer
<ubottu> sakrecoer: Hi! I'm #ubuntustudio-devel's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots | Make a clone of me: /msg ubottu botclone
<OvenWerk1> I just hope we can get some time together to go see her.
<sakrecoer> i hope so too OvenWerk1 !!! <3
<sakrecoer> !botsnack
<ubottu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
<sakrecoer> !love
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-21
<autumna> *takes a seat at a corner*
 * sakrecoer clears thro... ehm.. fingers
<sakrecoer> hi all!
<autumna> hi sakrecoer
<Rosco2> g'day
<sakrecoer> hi Rosco2 ! :)
 * autumna waves at Rosco2
<sakrecoer> autumna: yeah, i'll ping the list.. but cub wanred us he could maybe be late due to his duaghter, and OvenWerk1 could well be under the euphoria wave still..
<autumna> heh. I am not sure we will see OvenWerk1 tonight. :D
<autumna> understandably
<autumna> :D
<OvenWerk1> ok I am around for now.
<sakrecoer> \o/
<autumna> hey!!!
<sakrecoer> it seems i was too late out for meeingology bot (found out about it today) buti add this guy set_ to do that work instead
<sakrecoer> maybe zequence o join in?
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: this channel is logged in any case
<sakrecoer> :)
<sakrecoer> lets give cub 4 minutes :)
<autumna> ok
<sakrecoer> ok.. let's get this started :)
<sakrecoer> -----------------------------
<sakrecoer> i have about 3 "topic" i want to bring up and it shouldn't take too much time it think :)
<sakrecoer> i wanted to start of by having everyone get together to meet the "new" guys and say hi in synch :)
<sakrecoer> as most of us know autumna and geirdal have joined us recently.
<sakrecoer> seems geirdal isn't here now, but i'm sure you've read him on the mailing list.
<sakrecoer> it seems the constalation is moving and growing and skrinking, but at least its still synamic :)
<sakrecoer> *dynamic
<sakrecoer> (i'm a bit nervous, never done this before, sorry :D)
<autumna> (well first US meeting but you are doing fine :D)
<autumna> (I think :P)
<krytarik> Either way, welcome autumna and geirdal!
<Rosco2> +1
<autumna> :) glad to be here. 
<sakrecoer> yes! welcome!
<sakrecoer> there is progress on the website thanks to these guys and i think might be able to pull it off pretty soon
<autumna> I have the sinking feeling that website is the next topic? :D
<Rosco2> Is there somewhere to look for a preview?
<autumna> Rosco2: http://www.ubuntustudio.zequence.net/feature-test/
<sakrecoer> autumna: yes! :D Rosco2: autmna beat me to it :)
<autumna> geirdal has been working on the background images, ahha sorry. there will be a support page draft up at least tonight or tomorrow night latest, I got side tracked a bit with the whole css of the feature test thing. 
<sakrecoer> the background images are still in process, and so far i think we are still in a risky move on that level. but i think we will find something great in the right time
<sakrecoer> autumna: i set the deadline to the 23rd, so your fine :)
<sakrecoer> here are soem variations: http://geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0/
<autumna> (also some discussion on what needs to be done still, and ideas etc is happening at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial and I'll stop hijacking Sakrecoer's talk ;D)
<sakrecoer> your not hijacking, your complementing, at least so far :)
<sakrecoer> Rosco2, OvenWerk1 do you have any thoughts you want to share about the images?
<sakrecoer> kryten too of course
<sakrecoer> :D
<sakrecoer> ehm... i hope that wasn't a statement :D
<autumna> technical difficulties I am guessing.
<sakrecoer> too bad i wanted to move on to the development...
<sakrecoer> let's give him five...
<autumna> *puts elevator music*
 * autumna puts elevator music*
<sakrecoer> :D tut tataa da tata dadada...
<sakrecoer> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkxFhFRFDA
<OvenWerk1> The main things with the images is the application aditions/deletions we already noted.
<OvenWerk1> The Blue tooth headphones bug, I don't know where to go with. I have done nothing with BT audio at all (besides helping my Yf get her phone to work in the car)
<autumna> OvenWerk1: I can put it under Support: known issues? 
<autumna> unless I am misunderstanding?
<OvenWerk1> So far as I know BT audio does _not_ show up in ALSA at all only in Pulse.
<OvenWerk1> autumna: That sounds reasonable.
<sakrecoer> right, i wanted to move over to developement, but that is good transition :)
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: is the BT audio thing taking up a lot of your time/energy?
<sakrecoer> better formulated: could you name me your 3 top priorities right now?
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1 ^
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: I have not looked at the BT thing at all because I have no way of doing so.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: i learn of that issue today, that is to say, neither do i posses BT headset
<OvenWerk1> The BT thing the best thing would be if the user is willing to run xubuntu off a usb stick and if that doesn't work we can add the bug there.
<sakrecoer> \o/ wb Rosco2 :)
<OvenWerk1> ie. I think this is a desktop problem
<autumna> OvenWerk1, sakrecoer: what needs to be done? testing and filing of a bug?
<Rosco2> sorry
<OvenWerk1> There is a bug.
<sakrecoer> (np Rosco2 we into some Bluetooth headset issue that preoccupies OvenWerk1 )
<sakrecoer> well, maybe not put that way, but he brought it up when i asked 3 priroties of the moment
<sakrecoer> how about you Rosco2: what are your 3 top things/process/priorites in ubuntu studio at the moment ? :)
<Rosco2> Been a bit busy last few weeks
<Rosco2> Doing some merges of packages from Debian
<OvenWerk1> nice
<Rosco2> Need to get back to the backports
<sakrecoer> Rosco2: have you gotten any response on the backport for ardour you filed?
<Rosco2> Not yet 
<Rosco2> Was hoping for a tester to come forawrd - but can do myself
<sakrecoer> ok, i'll start by blaming myself on that one, and then look at us all :D
 * autumna can't help there. not familiar with ardour enough to test. :(((
<sakrecoer> we really have to do it, i think it is important
<sakrecoer> not only to honor Rosco2 work, i think it is a realy cool thing happening
<Rosco2> Also plan to swap the packages in the seeds with the latest selection
<OvenWerk1> where is the ppa?
<Rosco2> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/+archive/ubuntu/backport-testing
<Rosco2> One for Xenial & one for trusty
<sakrecoer> i will get busy with trusty one tomorrow.
<sakrecoer> i prepared a machine for that last week
<Rosco2> bug #1584930
<sakrecoer> wont be able to test with a soundcard tho, but i figure its better than nothing
<ubottu> bug 1584930 in Xenial Backports "Please backport ardour 1:4.7~dfsg-1 (universe) from yakkety" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1584930
<Rosco2> Just add a comment to the bug on how the test goes
<sakrecoer> will do!
<sakrecoer> autumna: how are the wacom controling doing?
<sakrecoer> *controls
<autumna> sakrecoer: right now I am putting what time I have on website related things. I was hoping to get to that after? unless you want me to shift priorities?
<autumna> or divide my time in between. 
<autumna> which I can do. 
<sakrecoer> nono, i'm just checking :)
<sakrecoer> we are still running ./relax.sh for a little more :)
<autumna> my current queue is website, wacom, and then.. either wiki docs, more website, learning to do debian packaging, or whatever else is most urgent. 
<sakrecoer> kryten: i understand you have something to say about ubuntustudio-devel team?
<sakrecoer> aparently, it wasn't important
<sakrecoer> :)
<OvenWerk1> Rosco2: I am guessing I need to install the -data package as well?
<sakrecoer> so before i move on to next point i just want to ask Rosco2 for some spontaneous reactions thoughts about the website pictures if any :)
<Rosco2> OvenWerk1, Not sure
<Rosco2> I suppose all should be checked that they install
 * OvenWerk1 wonders why debian splits packages that need the whole thing anyway.
<Rosco2> but it is a bit hard to test bdgsym package etc
<krytarik> Ftr, it was about the naming of the LP team: '< [uri]> Backport Testing : âUbuntu Studio Development Teamâ team'
<sakrecoer> krytarik: is there any risk any links will be broken if the name is corrected?
<Rosco2> Normally data packages are split out if optional & large in size
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Nope.
<Rosco2> sakrecoer, I could see website is a work in progress
<Rosco2> but you guys are really talented
<Rosco2> way better than I could do!
<sakrecoer> Rosco2: :) fair enough, i just want to make sure you feel welcome to feedback and give input :)
<OvenWerk1> Rosco2: The amd64 x version loads and runs, plays back previously recorded audio with effects.
<Rosco2> thnks - the sponsors will rather see someone other than the proposer do a test
<autumna>  could we reach out to forums, etc to help with backport testing?
<Rosco2> good idea
<Rosco2> I was planning on doing a blog - usual lack of time :-(
<sakrecoer> Rosco2, autumna, i take good note about that and will discuss with cfhowelett and cub about it
<sakrecoer> it shouldn't be too copmlicated :)
<autumna> *nods*
<sakrecoer> not certain it will give any results, but its worth trying :)
<autumna> unless somebody else can take it on (in which case, PLEASE DO :D) I can try to draft some simple instructions on what we need, although rosco and you guys will probably will have to fill in what features needs to be tested beyond, install and run the program
<autumna> well people like getting new versions of programs doesn't hurt to try
<sakrecoer> autumna: i want to remember Rosco2 wrote a nice mail with instructions
 * autumna goes to dig the said email from the ML
<sakrecoer> but yes, a "how-to" has to be communicated, :)
<Rosco2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/BackportsList
<Rosco2> instruction linked from there
<sakrecoer> is there anything else you guys want to put on the common table before we call it an evening? autumna Rosco2 OvenWerk1 krytarik ?
<Rosco2> no - feeling even more inspired now!
<sakrecoer> :) 
<autumna> just: if you guys have any feedback on bits and pieces of website please do drop by on ML, or IRC and if anyone wants to be helping out and being shy about it. please don't be shy? :D
<sakrecoer> :)
<sakrecoer> i might mention i quickly corrected the display name of https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev as krytarik brought up
<sakrecoer> i think that is it. :)
<sakrecoer> thank you all for joining :) its a real pleasure to be involved with you guys.
<autumna> this is a great team to be part of. :)
<krytarik> sakrecoer: Thank you for running the meeting.
<autumna> and thanks for organizing this meeting sakrecoer
<krytarik> Heh.
<autumna> (what krytarik said)
<sakrecoer> :)
<Rosco2> :-)
<sakrecoer> cool! i'll just do this little symbolic thing then:
<sakrecoer> -----------------------------
<autumna> \o/
<OvenWerk1> Rosco2: as mentioned in the bugt report, If ardour 5 is back ported it should depend on the 5 version of the -data package. There should be no dofference from 4.6 to 4.7 (the may be an added midimap or something) The ardour 5 version of that data has changed to a point the application may not run correctly.
 * OvenWerk1 builds and runs Ardour5 frequently.
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: something to note (I had forgotten about it) a2jmidid stops working after a while. (I don't boot very often as I have so many windows open) There is no indication it has stopped, just no midi makes it through.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: i will test it. i did start it the other day for the first time in 16.04 *blush* and i quickly got anoyed of the latency from my keyboard...
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: The latency hasn't bothered me... not sure why as I am running jack at 1024 and certainly for audio I find even 256 is noticable
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: using a pss480 for controller, into Ardour with either easonablesynth or setbfree.
<sakrecoer> my keybard is m-audio oxygen8 v2...
<sakrecoer> i still haven't figured how to make it go through jack tbh...
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: That should just show up in jack if you are running a2j (a2j_control ehw start)
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: I am pretty sure there are midi maps for that controller allready.
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: well i did start a2j, but yeah... the latency was crazy... and most notOFF wouldn't go through
<OvenWerk1> (in Ardour)
<sakrecoer> hmm... i was using it with ardour...
 * sakrecoer checks again...
 * OvenWerk1 finds he can deal with more delay in a keyboard than in a guitar effect :)
 * OvenWerk1 also notes he is not playing drum pads which may be different.
<sakrecoer> yeah, they latency is actualy ok, but it sends 4/10 notes
<sakrecoer> and often gets stuck on note on...
<sakrecoer> i can understand why its easier to compensate the delay of a keyboard than a guitar
<sakrecoer> a guitar has an inheritent vibration, a keyboard is just making pklastic clicks...
<sakrecoer> so the off-synch effects gets a lot stronger on a guitar
<sakrecoer> OvenWerk1: no luck. the keyboard works fine when attached to HW synth...
<sakrecoer> ight be the usb that is broken on it tho...
<sakrecoer> oh... "ehw"...
<sakrecoer> lets try that...
<sakrecoer>  no..
<sakrecoer> i don't realy understand the difference between "audio+midi" and "midi" tracks...
<sakrecoer> but i guess that is question for -user
<sakrecoer> i cannot add a synth to an audio+midi track in the plugin slot in the mixer, but i can add effects
<sakrecoer> i cannot add effects to a midi track in the plugin slot in the mixer, but i cannot add effects...
<sakrecoer> *can add effects...
<sakrecoer> argh... never mind, i mess up my explaining
<sakrecoer> can add synth to midi track but not effects
<sakrecoer> oh.. never mind... its too late :)
<sakrecoer> \o/ keyboard flue was cured by starting keyboard _after_ aj2 :D
<sakrecoer> latency is delicious unlatent! \o/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-22
<OvenWerk1> sakrecoer: with regard to USB latency see: http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2013-December/095401.html
<OvenWerk1> Robin has done some testing with real devices and full round trip times, As you can see from: http://robin.linuxaudio.org/tmp/vsl1818latency.png The same latency in jack can show some very different full latency. In each case the jack part of the latency is the same. The USB clock part of the latency can double from one way of setting jack to another.
<OvenWerk1> As I recall there were more tests done that showed that starting jack with a usb AI would give one result and just stopping and restarting jack with all the smae parameters gave a different result. This seems to be what you are seeing.
<OvenWerk1> It appears to be where in the USB cycle jack is started that determines latency.
<OvenWerk1> So yes, unplugging and repluggin the keyboard could do that.
<OvenWerk1> I personally use a PCI midi port (ES1370 OLD 90s Ensoniq AudioPCI card) which is always the same latency. And oh... MIDI is done different than Audio :)
<sakrecoer> thanks OvenWerk1 ! :) I will have to try to plug the keyboards midi-prot into my firewire card.
<sakrecoer> !hi-#ubuntustudio-devel | meetingology 
<sakrecoer> :D
<sakrecoer> don't be so shy ubottu :) welcome meetingology !
<autumna> now we have a meeting bot?
<sakrecoer> yes! \o/
<autumna> hahah. when is the next meeting?
<sakrecoer> hahaha!!!! 
<autumna> :D
<sakrecoer> thursday 21st of july ;)
<autumna> wait. you are serious?
<autumna> as in we will have regular meetings? 
<sakrecoer> i think so, no mandatory participation ofc.. but it's good to get the chance to synch sometimes.
<sakrecoer> i'm also anticipating having to take on a fulltime job, which would leave much less time to interact in realtime..
<sakrecoer> leave *me less time...
<autumna> well meetings aren't a bad idea regardless. just surprised that's all
<autumna> and as for having less time, I always go with the assumption that everyone has limited time. 
<geirdal> number 6 try in website background :/
<geirdal> http://geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0
<zequence> geirdal: I like many of the images, but what I'm seeing a great lack of in them is a vision about the feature tour. It needs to be very simple and clear, so that the visitor understands right away what Ubuntu Studio is about
<zequence> So, I would focus more on the concepts around the feature first
<zequence> feature tour, I mean
<zequence> Text is not enough.
<zequence> And, the text should be a lot shorter too.
<zequence> I think we should probably split the information in two parts. The feature tour at the front page should be simple and concise with links to more information about the different things shown there
<geirdal> there is no text in number 6 images
<geirdal> I do not controle the text
<zequence> Anyone can do the text. No one controls the text
<zequence> I think it's important to start from the right end, anyway
<geirdal> ok
<zequence> autumna has been working on some of the conceptual parts, but I think there's no real work on the hands on result yet
<autumna> I am currently working on support page, then contribution stuff
<autumna> maybe sakrecoer is working on update of the feature tour/discover stuff?
<autumna> and zequence: I agree with you about the 2 versions of feature tour. I am waiting pretty much until we have the updates to it in through
<geirdal> autumna, zequence, yes that is a good idea
<autumna> geirdal: about the images. I was wondering if it might be a good idea to put the icons into the content boxes next to the title instead
<autumna> any thoughs? (and anyone else too obviously)
<geirdal> zequence, just asking, do you want to se images og software ui
<geirdal> see images of software ui
<geirdal> autumna, and smaller maybe?
<zequence> geirdal: That could work. Many thing you can do creatively with that
<autumna> yep
<geirdal> ok
<zequence> I'm thinking the front page could have 4 parts. The first is general, about Ubuntu Studio being a multimedia production OS. The other three about each of the workflows
<zequence> What I ask myself is - what sort of image would explain at one glance that Ubuntu Studio is a multimedia production OS
<zequence> Or, what image, and what one-liner?
<geirdal> creative ones,Yes :)
<autumna> zequence: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/WebsiteXenial do you mean basically the front page section here?
<zequence> autumna: Right. Sorry, hadn't looked in there, but I see it is very similar to what I picture as well
<geirdal> zequence, but what software to choose from for each category?
<autumna> no worries.  I will keep nudging it to remind people that the doc is there, so that we can get all ideas in one place :D
<autumna> feel free to make edits to it. 
<zequence> geirdal: If you can combine pro audio, 3D modelling and video editing in one image, and the concept of an OS in one image, that would do
<zequence> I'm thinking a computer screen, with some content. Something like that, anyway
<zequence> The background should probably not be too complex. It takes away the attention from the information
<geirdal> zequence, you want me to start from scratch, Yes
<zequence> geirdal: I think so, yes. The icons could be used, but if the images and the text is already explaining things really well, they would be more of a complementary thing. They add a certain effect. Like labeling for each workflow
<geirdal> humm
<geirdal> ok
<autumna> (geirdal, btw I just sent you the login info for the stage, so that you can put new versions of images there)
<geirdal> autumna, thanks :))
<zequence> geirdal: Think most of the images you have provided are a bit too complex. Too many things going on at once. They look nice, but perhaps not for this particular case.
<autumna> (and thank you zequence again, for hosting the stage)
<zequence> autumna: No problem at all :)
<autumna> zequence: do we have a recommended path for users to file bugs for us? 
<autumna> I have been meaning to ask this to you for a while, I keep forgetting
<autumna> I mean for users who don't have launchpad accounts etc
<krytarik> Yes, get one. :P
<autumna> lol
<autumna> krytarik: zequence: anyone else
<autumna> do we officially redirect people to xubuntu and/or ubuntu for questions about desktop?
<krytarik> Well, it really depends on where they probably get the most help at the time.
<krytarik> That is to say, I wouldn't send anyone away if they get the same help here as well.
<krytarik> But that depends on the people around at the time, of course.
<krytarik> And that goes for *any* topic.
<autumna> *nods* obviously
<autumna> I just wasn't sure if it was ok to mention it on support page
<krytarik> Yeah, along those lines.
<krytarik> Mainly #xubuntu for the desktop then, of course.
<OvenWerk1> autumna: ubuntu-bug <program name> post the bug number back to irc or the email list
<autumna> right! thanks OvenWerk1
<OvenWerk1> I didn't realize I was so back the back scroll...
<OvenWerk1> autumna: generally if I can easily reproduce the bug on my own machine, I can do it too. But if they do it that is better and then I can confirm it.
<autumna> :D
<OvenWerk1> autumna: if they have different HW then it shows in the bug report.
<autumna> HW?
<OvenWerk1> Hardware
<autumna> ah
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-23
<OvenWerk1> I do normally try to run the same App while helping someone.
<OvenWerk1> (unless it is called Blender or something)
<autumna> hahaha
<autumna> come on Blender isn't so bad. is it?
<geirdal> no it is not 
<autumna> support page WIP: http://www.ubuntustudio.zequence.net/support/
<geirdal> Seventh try ;) bg images just a base: http://geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0 autumna: willa d them to stage when you accept it ;)
<geirdal> I everybody will accept them not just autumna 
<geirdal> I mean
<autumna> geirdal just add them to stage
<autumna> :) people can view them there
<autumna> I mean you can add them
<geirdal> ok
<autumna> geirdal: feedback: I like how clean these are. they are very bright through
<autumna> 2 options, you can make them darker, or I can reduce their transparency
<geirdal> yes readability is not ok at this stage
<autumna> I like what you did
<autumna> also
<geirdal> yes
<autumna> I would still experiment with having the icons separate from background next to the text as an alternative to play around. but I do like their placement on this iteration better
<autumna> as a consistency thing: I would even remove the hairy thing at the first image.
<autumna> but I'll shut up and let other people talk
<autumna> :D
<geirdal> hehehe
<autumna> I would upload these 3, and any changes you make to them
<autumna> so that we can swap them and compare
<geirdal> ok ;)
<autumna> (well maybe, upload a version after solving the brightness problem, unless you want me to tint/add transparency from css side)
<autumna> *hug*
<autumna> thank you for working on this btw
<geirdal> we can do both
<geirdal> ;)
<autumna> sure
<geirdal> :)))
<autumna> ok I am off to sleep. gnight geirdal, OvenWerk1, krytarik
<geirdal> gnight! autumna :)
<geirdal> new front image http://geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0
<OvenWerk1> geirdal: There are a lot of images there. I like the top one for sure.
<geirdal> :)
<geirdal> OvenWerk1, hope Iam getting there ;)
<OvenWerk1> Not so sure about the gas mask... I am hoping we don't stink :P
<geirdal> hehehhee
<OvenWerk1> I would be fine with most of them... but then you have never seen  anything I have done. Sound is my thing. For video my first thought is something like these: http://www.apeximagery.com.au/uploads/8/4/0/6/8406322/6327657.jpg?471
<OvenWerk1> The ones we used (early 1980s) looked more like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Betacam_SP_camera.jpg Except They said JVC and required a separate tape machine (Sony BVU something... U matic of some sort)
<OvenWerk1> The rich places like CBC had the Betacam.
<OvenWerk1> What I liked about the first one, is that it looks more like it could be used for movie making as well.
<OvenWerk1> The reality is that most people will use their phone or a dlsr.
<OvenWerk1> *dslr
<geirdal> yes but are we trying to be for everyone?
<LiteOP> Good morning. Anyone about ?
<zequence> LiteOP: Hi
<LiteOP> Hi there !
<LiteOP> How do you fit into the team / or are you a plain user of UStudio ?
<zequence> LiteOP: I'm the previous project lead. Most of the people here are developers of Ubuntu Studio
<zequence> LiteOP: Are you looking to contribute?
<LiteOP> Yes.
<LiteOP> I'm a wikipedian.
<zequence> LiteOP: Oh, cool
<LiteOP> What is the MegaByte size of Ubuntu Studio on the disc at the moment ?
<LiteOP> or GigaByte, should I say.
 * LiteOP is editing wikipedia at the moment too.
<LiteOP> zequence: you there ?
<zequence> LiteOP: Yes, sorry. HAd to do some stuff
<zequence> LiteOP: I think the best thing you can do is actually write down all your questions and post it on our mail list
<LiteOP> ok.
<zequence> LiteOP: Would make it simpler to answer them all
<zequence> LiteOP: I'm just on my way to the doctor right now. Got assaulted by some maniac the other night, and it seems I have a neck problem because of it
<LiteOP> sorry to hear that.
<LiteOP> I take it your in the US, then ?
<zequence> No, Sweden
<LiteOP> right-oh
<zequence> Gothenburg
<LiteOP> nice place.
<zequence> Like being struck by lightning. Can happen anywhere
<LiteOP> ok talk to you later ....
<zequence> Yeah. Nice talking to you LiteOP. Look forward to your mail list posting :)
<LiteOP> cheers, have a good one.
<sakrecoer> autumna, geirdal and hopefully someone with very good english spelling ( OvenWerk1 or krtaylor ?) : http://sakrecoer.com/ubuntustudio/feature-tour.txt
<sakrecoer> also, good morning!
<autumna> hi
<geirdal> hi
 * autumna tries desperately to wake up
<autumna> geirdal I like the change you did to front graphic
<geirdal> :)
<sakrecoer> hi autumna and geirdal !
<sakrecoer> you've been doing some real good stuff!
<sakrecoer> i like the idea of integrating the category icon with the title.
<sakrecoer> i also like it better on the left side.
<sakrecoer> i was trying to shoot some photos today for the .. ehm... OS part? like general "what is US" thing...
<sakrecoer> but it didn't come out very well...
<sakrecoer> the idea was to shoot my desk, with wacom tablet, camera, midi-kontroler and keyboard... mouse...
<sakrecoer> but it just looks messy, even though i cleaned my desk real good :D
<geirdal> try to take pictures of it seperate, is probable better to put them in collage image.
<sakrecoer> good idea!!
<sakrecoer> :)
<autumna> nice
<autumna> I might contribute some images to that growing pile as well. I do need to figure out where I stashed my old paint supllies through
<autumna> :D
<autumna> and sakrecoer: your stuff is not messy
<autumna> (based on the panorama you shared earlier at least)
<sakrecoer> :) well... that is from back when the studio-room was a lot bigger... and... you don't get to see what is behind the camera :D:D:D
<autumna> I see
<geirdal> Is there any special reason why we are using wordpress?
<geirdal> I have been designing new icon theme for studio, LMMS Logo are very well designed from the beginning it is just perfect design. I think we should have our own icons, this is my fyrst draft :) http://geirdal.is/index.php/studio-0
#ubuntustudio-devel 2016-06-24
<sakrecoer> even ubot93 reacts!! :D
#ubuntustudio-devel 2017-06-23
<eylul> mostly back from travel
<krytarik> eylul: Howdy!
<eylul> hey I am ok
<eylul> I was at ISEA2017, so it was a lot of fun and nice art and interesting talks.
<eylul> glad to be home through
<eylul> how are you krytarik?
<OvenWerk1> have you guys tried -controls?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-19
<Eickmeyer> Not live yet, but definitely ready: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/AudioHandbook/1.0
<studio-devel668> Hello everyone
<studio-devel668> I have just seen your announcement about your desperate need for volunteers
<studio-devel668> And I would like to ask you what exactly are you looking for at the moment
<tsimonq2> studio-devel668: What do you want to do? :)
<studio-devel668> Hi tsimonq2, I actually don't really know. I never partecipated in a project like this. I can't put a lot of time in it because I am a student, but I would like to give you some help. I guess that I could use some old laptops for testing purposes, or maybe help with documentation (I am Italian BTW, maybe you could use an extra translator) or with quick tutorials (since I use some of the programs to make videos). 
<tsimonq2> studio-devel668: OK
<Eickmeyer> studio-devel668: Hi! Welcome! It looks like you could be good to work on testing. To get started, go to https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel , sign-up for, and introduce yourself on our mailing list. If you don't already have one, open an account on launchpad.net and let us know in your intro email what it is.
<Eickmeyer> That way we can add you to the team. :)
<studio-devel668> OK
<studio-devel668> Done
<Eickmeyer> studio-devel668: Cool. Next step is to register an account on Freenode (this IRC network) with an IRC handle. You can add that handle to your launchpad account.
<studio-devel668> OK, I have to create the Launchpad account first
<Eickmeyer> *thumbsup*
<studio-devel668> Launchpad account created
<studio-devel668> I will introduce myself to the mailing list tomorrow, since it's getting late. See you soon!
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: To aid with Plasma, I'm adding symbolic links to /usr/share/wallpapers pointing to our wallpapers at /usr/share/backgrounds/ubuntustudio.
<OvenWerks> OK, I am realizing I need to call the desktop file in plasma seeds something different... in case things get turned into a meta.
<Eickmeyer> Gotcha.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-20
<Eickmeyer> I'm thinking we'd have to get -look installed after -plasma, before -default-settings?
<OvenWerks> I am thinking ...
<OvenWerks> we need to have -default-settings, -xfce-settings and -plasma-settings I think.
<OvenWerks> -default for things like our grub mode, swappiness and such
<OvenWerks> so default would always be included.
<OvenWerks> I was thinking that -default-settings could just include the settings for both (different patrhs anyway) but that would mean the session type chooser in the DM would always show both even one that is not there... unless it gets fixed at boot (every time).
<OvenWerks> it would be cleaner to use three files.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed.
<Eickmeyer> .session files that go to nowhere tend to cause loops in SDDM.
<Eickmeyer> By that I mean sign-in followed by an SDDM restart.
<Eickmeyer> I can see the bug reports from that happening, so best to keep the .session files specific to the -[DE]-settings.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: something is not right in -look
<OvenWerks> Ah, last build ok. I think you are trying to make a link from a link. That makes sense to me, but not to the installer/builder
<OvenWerks> I think it does not matter where the default backdrops are. Plasma may default to a certain directory, but I am sure we can change that. At least we can directly tell plasma where the default images are.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, what I did still doesn't work like it did when I did it manually. Plasma should be able to instantly see the files, but that doesn't appear to be happening.
<OvenWerks> I am sure plasma can be told to look for backgrouns <here> if configured right.
<Eickmeyer> I was researching that before Mr. Sandman came a-knockin'.
<Eickmeyer> Might just ask kubuntu-devel.
<OvenWerks> I think a first step is to create ubuntustudio-xfce-settings
<OvenWerks> In other words we should make the changes in xfce first and make sure it still works :)
<OvenWerks> or make it work.
<OvenWerks> Then adding -plasma-settings with not much in it (accept defaults first) as a next step
<Eickmeyer> I'm experimenting with my own setup to see. Knowing is still a good part of the process.
 * OvenWerks was relieved to finish -controls so he could work on Ardour again
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Found a bug on that. When plugging in headphones, my sound card couldn't switch from speakers to headphones automatically like it does when I run jack from qjackctl. Not sure what is going on there.
<OvenWerks> I would be surprised if jackd was doing that. I think you will find that in that case pulse was doing the switching
<OvenWerks> Ie, pulse was aware of the device before jack was started and while it gave up the audio ports it retained the control ports (which can be shared)
<Eickmeyer> Okay. Well, it didn't matter if I started with headphones plugged-in or not, it just refused to use the headphones.
<OvenWerks> This is an HDA specific problem... and requires a lot more work.
<Eickmeyer> Okay.
<OvenWerks> Headphones and speakers are the same port just with different level controls. You can use alsamixer to turn the headphones on.
<OvenWerks> What I would tend to do is set the headphones always on and use the plug signal to turn speakers off/on
<Eickmeyer> See, that's the thing: Alsa wouldn't do it either.
<OvenWerks> Pulse (unfortunately) turns the headphones down.
<OvenWerks> really? I have gotten that to work for other people I have talked to.
<OvenWerks> start alsamixer after plugging phones in
<Eickmeyer> Yep, tried that.
<OvenWerks> use F6 to select the HDA device (mine is not 0)
<Eickmeyer> Yep, did that.
<OvenWerks> headphone should be all the way up and the bottom box should be 00
<Eickmeyer> I'll play around with it some more.
<OvenWerks> if the bottom box has MM then use m to unmute it.
<OvenWerks> Master has to be up as well (I see mine is not)
<Eickmeyer> But I'm pretty sure I did what you're describing, and it just plain would not work if jackd was started from -controls.
<OvenWerks> I don't have anything connected to my hda audio, I used to have it disabled in bios, but found that it was handy to have for testing and helping people.
 * OvenWerks is not even sure which jack would be considered phones on this mother board
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: have you looked at hdajackretask to make sure the phone jack is still getting phones audio?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'll try that.
<OvenWerks> I will look for some phones with an 1/8 in jack (most of mine have 1/4in)
<Eickmeyer> I have a pair of Behringer headphones I use that have 1/8 with the screw-on adapter for 1/4.
<OvenWerks> works for me
<OvenWerks> interesting, I had hdajackretask running and it shows that when I plug in phones the phones jack override turns on.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I'll play around with it more to see if I can either duplicate the problem (again) or if the problem is gone.
<OvenWerks> I think there are three controls that have to be up: Master, phones and pcm
<OvenWerks> let me check
<OvenWerks> no pcm makes no difference
<OvenWerks> so just Master and Headphones, full up and unmuted
<OvenWerks> I am pretty sure there will be a dbus signal of some sort when the phones are plugged unplugged. catching that will be the easy part...
<OvenWerks> There is pyalsaaudio but it is python2 only. I do not see a python3 version though It is buildable. We need a package.
<Eickmeyer> *nods*
<Eickmeyer> I need to get better at packaging before trying something like that.
<OvenWerks> ya it is not an easy one (doesn't use ./configure, make, makeinstall)
<OvenWerks> The debian packager tools all expect that.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, but doesn't the install file let you override that?
<OvenWerks> Which is why I gave up on carla
<OvenWerks> sure if you can understand the language
 * Eickmeyer starts digging
<OvenWerks> it is not intuitive at all, you have to know the exact command. I do not know why they don't have some thing like config_command=<do this or nothing>, build_command=<how to build> and install_command=<how to install>
<Eickmeyer> iirc, for Carla (built it multiple times) the build command should be make BUILDDIR=/usr/lib or something like that.
<Eickmeyer> then a simple make install.
<Eickmeyer> (Carla's makefile wants to default everything to /usr/local/lib
<OvenWerks> Carla is easy to build, but the depends have to be just right before the build as there is no configure and depending on what is in the system it builds differently
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. I got it to build perfectly about a month ago. I guess it's just a matter of figuring out what you need. I know he documented it.
<OvenWerks> the py alsa thing is: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23190348/alsaaudio-library-not-working
<OvenWerks> basically it is the same as python 2 but building it using python3.
<OvenWerks> I will see if there is an easy commandline thing though
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I think it would be easiest to just use calls to amixer. I am not sure, but expect the device number would be a part of the dbus message
<OvenWerks> Of course what would be reall nice, would be to plug the phones in to the internal acrd and have all things connected to another device rerouted to the internal :P
<OvenWerks> amixer -c 1 -- sset Headphone playback unmute
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I've done that before by specifying the input & output devices in qjackctl, but -controls has no way of doing that (I'm assuming because you made a way to show all audio devices).
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: um, most often when you do that in qjackctl you would have problems
<Eickmeyer> I never once had a problem.
<OvenWerks> it is ok to use hw0,0 for one and hw:0,1 for the other
<OvenWerks> but to use hw0,0 for one and hw:2,0 for the other often crashes jack
<OvenWerks> adding other devices as clients is more stable.
<OvenWerks> (and seems to always work
<OvenWerks> Generally the only time differeing in and out devices should be used with jack is if they are different sub devices
<OvenWerks> for example to use the spdif output
<OvenWerks> (often hw:0,2
<OvenWerks> Dbus does not have a signal for pluggin unpluggin phones
<Eickmeyer> Interesting. Must mean Alsa is handling it, but why wouldn't it work in -controls?
<OvenWerks> no it means it is done some other way... like keyboard strocks
<OvenWerks> *strokes
<Eickmeyer> Oh, okay.
<Eickmeyer> Well, I'm almost at a point where I can play with it again.
<OvenWerks> acpi_listen seems to be the thing
<OvenWerks> /dev/input/event9 (on my machine) is headphone
<OvenWerks> the problem with using /dev/input/* is that they are root access
<OvenWerks> ls -l /dev/input/
<OvenWerks> crw-rw---- 1 root input 13, 73 Jun 13 14:34 event9
<OvenWerks> Not even read access to prevent someone from kb snooping
<OvenWerks> Hmm, even then it seems to rely on CONFIG_SND_HDA_INPUT_JACK being set in the kernel
<Eickmeyer> *hangs head in shame*
<Eickmeyer> d'oh! I know what the problem is. Didn't edit the install file. >.<
<hellocasper> good evening everyone
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> hellocasper: hello
<hellocasper> OvenWerks: hi :)
<Eickmeyer> hellocasper: Hi!
<OvenWerks> testing is helpful for sure
<hellocasper> Eickmeyer: Hi! :)
<Eickmeyer> hellocasper: Looks like you did your homework! Welcome!
 * Eickmeyer really needs to make a list of who is working on what
<hellocasper> Eickmeyer: sure did, many thanks :)
<hellocasper> just so i know, should i make submissions on launchpad or here on irc?
<OvenWerks> bug reports? launchpad
<hellocasper> thought so, thanks
<OvenWerks> for testing ISO the best place to start is http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
 * Eickmeyer is irked that the wiki just went down (error 500) as he is editing. >.<
<OvenWerks> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/390/builds/175174/testcases would be todays page but that changes when a new ISO is spun
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: speaking of shuffling in the dark, I can't test headphone stuff on my system because my case is old and the plugset is AC97 not HDA
<Eickmeyer> Eek. Okay, I'll have to do the testing.
<OvenWerks> so when I do: sudo hdajacksensetest -c 1
<OvenWerks> I get: Pin 0x1b (Green Headphone, Front side): present = No
<OvenWerks> if it is plugged or not
<OvenWerks> same with /proc/input/event* etc.
<Eickmeyer> The Audio Handbook is now live: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/AudioHandbook
<hellocasper> I've submitted my first bug report, I do hope it's okay, if I've made any mistake please let me know, much appreciated, thanks!
<Eickmeyer> hellocasper: No problem. What was the bug?
<hellocasper> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+bug/1777917 it's during a reinstall, "studio" is missing from the Ubuntu Studio identity
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1777917 in Ubuntu Studio "missing "studio" from distribution identity during re-install" [Undecided,New]
<OvenWerks> hellocasper: I don't think that can be fixed
<Eickmeyer> That's not a bug. Ubuntu Studio _is_ Ubuntu, not a separate distribution. All flavors say that.
<OvenWerks> It is a lookup of /etc/os-release I think
<hellocasper> ah, okay, sorry about that
<OvenWerks> Thats ok, I wanted to change that too
<OvenWerks> PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 18.04 LTS"
<OvenWerks> That would be the line to change
<OvenWerks> I would like it changed for the grub boot menu too but it was already painful changing thing to make lowlatency always first.
<OvenWerks> The problem with making the name to Ubuntustudio is with ef-whatever installs rather than bios
<hellocasper> can i ask, how is ubuntu studio built?
<Eickmeyer> Using "seed" files on Launchpad.
<hellocasper> seed files, like preseed?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I played a bit with my son's laptop (which has a Headphone jack) and acpid does detect un/plugging.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Must be something weird with my system.
<OvenWerks> hellocasper: sort of but a bit more complex
<OvenWerks> the one thing to look for might be "Automute"
<OvenWerks> with Automute off both phone and speaker are on in both cases
<hellocasper> OvenWerks: would it be possible if i would be able to look at it please?
<hellocasper> could be*
<OvenWerks> The laptop is older and does not have both a speaker and Headphone control
<OvenWerks> hellocasper: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntustudio.cosmic/files
<hellocasper> OvenWerks: thanks
<OvenWerks> you will notice no desktop-common, desktop-common is inherited from one of the ubuntu vanilla flavours
<hellocasper> that's clever
<OvenWerks> All of the flavours are done the same way
<hellocasper> ah
<OvenWerks> basically it is possible to build any flavour on top of one of these: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/
<hellocasper> really? i thought the netboot iso's only had enough to boot and connect to the web?
<OvenWerks> yup, and then there is a menu that can dl and install whatever is needed for a flavour
<Eickmeyer> I'm afk for a while. o/
<hellocasper> o/
<hellocasper> :)
<hellocasper> i'm not sure if this is a bug, but from the taskbar menu, if i turn bluetooth off, when i restart my laptop, the bluetooth is back on, wouldn't it be better if turning bluetooth off turned it off properly instead of the session?
<OvenWerks> I don't really know the answer to that.
<OvenWerks> my system doesn't have BT but the icon still shows.
<hellocasper> I'm off to the shop for some fish and chips, back in a bit o/
<OvenWerks> o/
<hellocasper> i'm back :)
<hellocasper> one thing i did have to do when i first installed 18.04 was to install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics because my touchpad click input wouldn't work
<hellocasper> tap to click input*
<hellocasper> plus the mouse was too fast flying off the screen, once i installed that package the speed was normal again as well as tapping to click works
<Eickmeyer> hellocasper: Ubuntu is relying on libinput now. Bear in mind, the Ubuntu Studio team is only responsible for Ubuntu Studio-specific things. When it comes to the DE, that usually gets redirected to Xubuntu, or in the future, Kubuntu since we're adopting the Plasma desktop in addition to Xfce.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: My last commit did the trick for -wallpapers. All systems go.
<hellocasper> Eickmeyer: ah, okay, so with Ubuntu relying on libinput, what does that mean for touchpads?
<Eickmeyer> hellocasper: I'm not 100% sure, all I know is that synaptics is depricated in favor of libinput, but for some people (such as yourself) it's not working nor is it guaranteed to work. Hence, the availability of xserver-xorg-input-synaptics for legacy devices. Bear in mind, it's not maintained. 
<hellocasper> I'm a bit confused why the Ubuntu team would choose to do this, for someone new to Linux, trying Ubuntu 18.04 for the first time, something that simple might put them off staying on Ubuntu
<hellocasper> some people just want things to "just work", if that makes sense
<Eickmeyer> Did you test it in Ubuntu proper? It might be an Xfce thing.
<hellocasper> I haven't, that's something for me to try, thanks
<hellocasper> I was just wondering, with the seed data, how could I go about building an ISO?
<Eickmeyer> That's more OvenWerks' territory. I've gotta jet, stuff to do.
<hellocasper> cya Eickmeyer o/
<hellocasper> good night
<hellocasper> o/
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the answer is it gets built every 24 hours...
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-21
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerk: was preoccupied, I shouldnât have even tried.
<Eickmeyer> And this client has no tab complete. Frigginâ phone...
<hellocasper> good morning
<OvenWerks> g'nite all  ;0
<hellocasper> g'night OvenWerks 
<hellocasper> when you have the time spare, could you tell me how i could build Ubuntu Studio from the seeds file, thanks
<hellocasper> i'll be back in a bit, cya o/
<hellocasper> hi o/
<OvenWerks> hellocasper: just wait, our seeds get built every day.
<hellocasper> OvenWerks: sure thing :)
<OvenWerks> https://sites.google.com/a/mythbuntu.org/website/development/developer-cheatsheet
<OvenWerks> quite honestly, I did try one time to make an ISO on my own machine using some of the tools about and I got to a point but could not figure out the whole.
<OvenWerks> https://github.com/netson/ubuntu-unattended
<OvenWerks> I am not sure if any of these is the official one.
<hellocasper> thanks
<hellocasper> i'm not sure if this is a bug, but when i plugged my printer in, my printer automatically installed which i expected, but also a dialogue box appeared saying additional drivers required, i pressed the button which said to "find in software" but of course it didn't find anything, i'm not sure why this dialogue appeared, but my printer installed fine
<hellocasper> i guess that would be more of an "Ubuntu" bug?
<OvenWerks> yes. That would be a part of cups
<OvenWerks> ubuntu_bug cups would create a bug report for cups
<OvenWerks> In general, if there is a bug that seems to point to a package: ubuntu_bug <package name> is the best way to go.
<hellocasper> thanks
<lil_ornis> Hello again
<lil_ornis> I have finally subscribed to the mailing list
<lil_ornis> We spoke two days ago
<lil_ornis> You told me that I could be helpful in testing
<lil_ornis> What do I have to do now?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-22
<hellocasper> Hi :)
<hellocasper> wow, when i submitted a bug for cups yesterday i had no idea 495 bugs were "open" for it, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bugs?orderby=importance&start=0
<hellocasper> seems a bit excessive?
<hellocasper> something i could do with looking into sometime i understanding backporting
<hellocasper> then maybe in the future i will be able to do packaging :)
<Eickmeyer> hellocasper: Hi! Just remember that cups is beyond the scope of Ubuntu Studio. iirc, the upstream for cups is Apple.
<hellocasper> that's fine :)
<hellocasper> i think i was just thinking out loud :)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just got to looking through the structure of FalkTX's .deb of Carla (really, the tarball) and I cannot see anywhere how it's non-standard Debian, or even a Debian binary. It looks like it's building from source. I see no reason why we couldn't just use that.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: That is fine, The big thing is to get the build deps just right. :)
<OvenWerks> (and package deps)
<OvenWerks> if you use any automated tool to pull deps, there will be some that are not available in debian or ubuntu repos.
<OvenWerks> (unless the latest version has removed some of that... the author was talking about doing that)
<Eickmeyer> Latest version includes all the correct deps. I just verified.
<Eickmeyer> I'm just going to take his code from his package and rename it from carla-git to carla.
<Eickmeyer> I'm going to build it in my own PPA.
<hellocasper> I'm off, cya o/
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-23
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I did it. It builds from source. It runs. https://code.launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Nice that it creates a set of packages.
<OvenWerks> I'll run lintian across things and see what it says... later
<Eickmeyer> Yep. Exactly the way FalkTX designed it. There was a lot of stuff that wasn't right. The deps were going somewhere else and there was a lot that was depricated (external plugins).
<Eickmeyer> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jun 23 19:02:25 2018 UTC.  The chair is Eickmeyer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Eickmeyer> #chair Eickmeyer eylul OvenWerks krytarik captain-tux cyphermox tsimonq2
<meetingology> Current chairs: Eickmeyer OvenWerks captain-tux cyphermox eylul krytarik tsimonq2
<Eickmeyer> Anybody else here?
<captain-tux> Hi
<Eickmeyer> Hey captain-tux!
<krytarik> Howdy.
<Eickmeyer> Hey krytarik!
<Eickmeyer> Well, shall we get started and hope everyone else shows up?
<krytarik> Or wait a few more minutes..
<Eickmeyer> I'm not seeing any of the new people here that have recently joined. Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<Eickmeyer> Good idea.
 * eylul sneaks in
<Eickmeyer> eylul: o/
<eylul> hi! sorry i missed the last meeting
<Eickmeyer> No worries!
<captain-tux> Greetings
<eylul> :)
<Eickmeyer> I'm hoping OvenWerks shows since he added an item to the agenda.
 * Eickmeyer might make a spot on the wiki for the current agenda
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow, we've had a number of people express interest in helping, none of whom are currently here. I would like to welcome them to the team.
<Eickmeyer> #topic New People
<Eickmeyer> I would love to get a list of what everyone is working on so we know where to plug people in.
<eylul> Do you mean us or the new people?
<Eickmeyer> I mean everyone, and where to get the new people plugged-in.
<eylul> I am trying to do graphics stuff that shows up. Do we have someone who can take the lead on the especially technical side of the website?
<eylul> e.g. finalizing the theme, setting up git to mirror the stage or a stage they set up. etc. 
<eylul> that might be one thing for someone who doesn't want to work on packaging but have some technical expertise
<eylul> I think some people showed interest in testing. *thinks out loud*
<Eickmeyer> I'm still trying to get access to the backend. I'm familiar with Wordpress, and since it's wordpress I could get things rolling if I had the access. Still working on that. I sent an email but I don't think it went through.
<eylul> live backend, or the stage backend?
<Eickmeyer> live backend. Do you have the stage backend?
<eylul> I am hosting the stage backend, I just have no idea how to set up git to mirror it
<eylul> launchpad's git is somewhat melting my brain ;)
<Eickmeyer> I've been getting the hang of Launchpad's git. I just packaged Carla with it.
<eylul> nice.
<eylul> If you want I'll give you, or someone else ssh access. 
<Eickmeyer> I'll go ahead. I'm kinda on a roll with Carla packaged and the Audio Handbook completely uploaded.
<eylul> I have some knowledge on wordpress development. but lack of understanding of the launchpad pretty much means I am not very useful on short term. (besides the child theme is done for most part)
<eylul> ok
<Eickmeyer> It really means getting the theme and child theme in /wp-content/themes, and getting whatever images uploaded.
<eylul> we can even upload the images manually on live
<eylul> it really is getting the theme in
<eylul> (assume images are separate from the theme like krytarik was suggesting we keep them)
<Eickmeyer> Yep. Getting the theme in requires FTP or the like.
<eylul> we need to put a ticket in with IS
<eylul> or at least that's how it worked last time. We are not allowed direct access to it
<Eickmeyer> I'll ping them and see if I can get tsimonq2 or cyphermox to vouch.
<eylul> *nods*
<Eickmeyer> I mean, if they only want to talk to sakrecoer.
<Eickmeyer> Which, I understand, has been the case in the past.
<eylul> honestly last attempt was 2 years ago so it is worth trying to start over in this case, it is possible procedures changed even by now
<Eickmeyer> True.
<Eickmeyer> Anybody else working on anything?
<eylul> Ovenwerks is working on controls
<eylul> obviously
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks has all but finished controls. He's working on the manpages currently.
<eylul> nice
<Eickmeyer> He's also starting on Plasma.
<Eickmeyer> I'm subscribed to our daily build PPA, and controls is working really well.
<Eickmeyer> Also, your new wallpaper is now default.
<eylul> nice. 
<eylul> did I.. ever create the png version of it?
<Eickmeyer> I think it's png?
<eylul> or send the png version
<Eickmeyer> Yep, it's png.
<eylul> ok :)
<Eickmeyer> Anyhow, I never updated the topic.
<Eickmeyer> #topic Current Projects
<Eickmeyer> #info OvenWerks nearly done with -controls, creating manpages
<Eickmeyer> #info OvenWerks starting work on Plasma.
<Eickmeyer> #done Audio Handbook Release
<Eickmeyer> By the way, has anybody had time to look at the audio handbook on the wiki?
<eylul> not yet I saw we had it released.
<Eickmeyer> Yep. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/AudioHandbook
<Eickmeyer> #done -look Symbolic Links created for Plasma to reference wallpapers
<Eickmeyer> #done Change logo in -icons, -look, and -menu to white logo on blue circle, uniform with other flavors.
<eylul> oh we have a cover image
<captain-tux> I planned to have a read through it next week.
<eylul> is it ready
<Eickmeyer> We got a lot done these past two weeks!
<eylul> or draft stage?
<eylul> e.g is it ready to be be converted to epub/pdf
<Eickmeyer> eylul: It's ready. Pete went in and edited what he needed to do. I'm waiting on him to do the PDF.
<Eickmeyer> since he has the original .odt file.
<eylul> I am on lockdown until thursday'ish between work and.. well other things.
 * Eickmeyer nods
<Eickmeyer> The PDF we have is the draft, so I didn't link it.
<eylul> but after that, if it is not done yet i can make the pdf while doing the epub
<Eickmeyer> Okay. I have a larger image of the cover, but it's not super huge. Might take bringing it into inkscape and having it vectorized.
<eylul> if you vectorize it, the background might go odd
<Eickmeyer> #info eylul and Eickmeyer working on website and access to backend for new theme
<eylul> not sure if inkscape can handle correctly vectorizing gradient
<Eickmeyer> Do we have the original layerd version of that wallpaper? 
<eylul> and if it is mean to be online only, the image doesn't have to be super huge.
<Eickmeyer> True.
 * eylul shrugs.
<Eickmeyer> Well, let's move on, but I was hoping OvenWerks would be here for the next topic.
<Eickmeyer> #topic Replace lightdm with sddm
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks noticed a number of advantages sddm has over lightdm, especially when it comes to distinguishing between wayland and xorg versions of sessions.
<Eickmeyer> Currently, lightdm makes no distinction. i.e. Plasma wayland and Plasma xorg show up as duplicate Plasma entries in the menu.
<Eickmeyer> That said, without him here, I'd like to table this topic.
<Eickmeyer> Thoughts?
<Eickmeyer> Okay, we'll table that one.
<captain-tux> Uhm yeah, can't really say anything about that.
<eylul> sounds good from a user point of view to have that distinction, but yeah
<eylul> same as captain-tux on this one :)
<Eickmeyer> Okay, we'll table that.
<Eickmeyer> #info topic tabled until OvenWerks can give input & present case.
<Eickmeyer> #topic New Plymouth Theme
<Eickmeyer> This was an idea I had which I have yet to play with. Any thoughts? Our theme is looking rather dated.
<captain-tux> Well, it's not flat, if that's what you mean by dated.. ;) I like it, but the spinning logo is not centered..
<Eickmeyer> captain-tux: Yeah, agreed, and that has always bugged me. Not sure I like the spinning either.
<eylul> I do need to look at the theme before giving an opinion if the rest of the group isn't decided by now.  but generally I will say anything with no bright colors
<eylul> and minimalist generally is good for people doing graphics
<Eickmeyer> I'm talking about the Plymouth theme, not UI, just to make that clear.
<captain-tux> I believe plymouth would just be the splash screen at boot, yes?
<eylul> oh
<eylul> I apologize.
<Eickmeyer> Yes, Plymouth is the splash screen at boot.
<Eickmeyer> No worries, eylul. Clarification was in order.
<eylul> I don't mind the spinning. from a loading perspective.
<eylul> visualizing loading
<eylul> but if we want to switch it, I am not against it
<eylul> its been there a while. 
<eylul> if we want something, new. if you give me some parameters of what we are aiming for, i can create graphics for it.
<eylul> (unless somebody volunteered for that already)
<Eickmeyer> I envision something a little more modern, and perhaps removing the tagline?
<eylul> what do you mean with modern exactly. is it as captain-tux mentioned, material design?
<Eickmeyer> I shy away from saying that, but I'm thinking we can take some cues from the other flavors for ideas. Kubuntu does a pulsing blue glow behind their logo, I think Xubuntu has a line that bounces (for lack of better desrciption)...
<Eickmeyer> Lubuntu is a recolored version of the default Ubuntu one, iirc.
<Eickmeyer> eylul: Maybe integrate something showcasing your wallpaper?
<eylul> I can do that
<eylul> I will need to look at what type of animation format is required. one question I will ask through
<eylul> is this something we want to keep switching with wallpapers?
<Eickmeyer> Not sure, but it's somewhere to start. Not a bad idea, though.
<captain-tux> It's easy: Nice, modern, innovative, unique with a bit of vintage flair. Simple. 
<eylul> and also something that works well with a very low resolution
<eylul> which I think might be a bigger reason why the current one looks dated
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, adaptable like most Plymouth themes.
<eylul> more than the spinning
<eylul> it has a background texture to it
<eylul> but ok
<eylul> when is the feature freeze?
<Eickmeyer> eylul: I'd love to see what you can come up with. Want to take a crack at it?
<Eickmeyer> Pretty sure sometime in September.
<eylul> ok
<eylul> yeah
<eylul> I'll take a look
<eylul> and if you don't mind
<eylul> after I survive this week, I'd ask help from you sometime that works with you
<eylul> to set up git
<eylul> and a dev.
<eylul> so that I can upload on my own, and work without.. well
<eylul> needing to reroll back because things went askew
<Eickmeyer> Okay, yeah, sounds good.
<Eickmeyer> So, you're cool with taking on plymouth?
<eylul> that's basically the main hiccup that keeps me from doing dev work.
<eylul> yeah
<Eickmeyer> #action eylul working on Plymouth theme
<meetingology> ACTION: eylul working on Plymouth theme
<Eickmeyer> Okay. Next isn't on the agenda, but, do we want to revisit the wallpaper resolutions?
<eylul> krytarik? you were the one with objection previously. :)
<krytarik> Well tbh, if you all want to load a 5 MB wallpaper on login, and I'm the only one who thinks that's a tad too much... :P
<Eickmeyer> tbh, I don't care either way, but I tend to lean on the side of forward progress. Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<eylul> krytarik: ovenwerks tested it on his system, it didn't result in anything noticeable, to have a larger overhead. We have already discussed before that we don't cater to low end, after market PCs as most of our users (audio and visual) both probably use computers with a fair bit processing power.
<eylul> did you run into a specific problem? or is it just a desire to be minimalist. if it is former, it is important that we do know. 
<krytarik> More the general point, yes.
<eylul> ok
<Eickmeyer> Okay. Should we move on with our previous vote, or should we revote? Bear in mind, many of those that voted previously (captain-tux, OvenWerks) are not currently here.
<captain-tux> I'm back, my wire broke down sorry..
<eylul> welcome back
<Eickmeyer> wb captain-tux. I thought we had lost you to the ether.
<captain-tux> Thanks, something like that. :)
<eylul> :)
<eylul> I am not against a revote or work with previous vote. Either way my vote will be on the same direction. That being said, especially on future wallpapers, I am not against trying to be more conscious about the file size (which is different from the resolution) my work IS a bit on heavy side, as it was created in a raster format.
<Eickmeyer> Well, might as well take a vote here.
<Eickmeyer> #vote Wallpaper Resolution to be 4K
<meetingology> Please vote on: Wallpaper Resolution to be 4K
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Eickmeyer> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Eickmeyer
<eylul> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from eylul
<captain-tux> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from captain-tux
<Eickmeyer> Anybody else?
<eylul> krytarik?
<krytarik> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from krytarik
<Eickmeyer> Okay, i think that's everyone present.
<Eickmeyer> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Wallpaper Resolution to be 4K
<meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Eickmeyer> Well, there it is.
<eylul> krytarik I will look into seeing if the image can be traced, or somehow reduced in filesize without losing its integrity.
<Eickmeyer> That sounds like a plan.
<Eickmeyer> #action eylul to look into minimizing file size without losing integrity.
<meetingology> ACTION: eylul to look into minimizing file size without losing integrity.
<Eickmeyer> Okay. That's all I've got for this meeting. Anybody have anything?
<eylul> not from me
<Eickmeyer> Well, shall we adjourn?
<eylul> +1 :)
<captain-tux> Nothing else on my side.
<Eickmeyer> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jun 23 20:17:27 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2018/ubuntustudio-devel.2018-06-23-19.02.moin.txt
<Eickmeyer> And that, my friends, is a wrap.
<Eickmeyer> Productivity is productive!
<eylul> :))) I am off to sleep. I need to be up in about 6 hours
<eylul> thank you for the good meeting everyone and thank you eickmeyer for organizing it
<Eickmeyer> Absolutely. I love being a part of this team. :)
<captain-tux> Thank you, sweet dreams. :D
<eylul> :) o/
<Eickmeyer> Well, I need to take a break. Thanks everyone!
<captain-tux> Ok, see you around!
<OvenWerks> sorry, I ended up taking a nap with my Yf.... Yes, -controls is ready for testing/release.
<captain-tux> Yf, okay.. that took me a while. :P
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: lintian is not happy with carla.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: lintian against the deb gives: http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/carla_deb.txt
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: linian against the dsc file gives: http://www.ovenwerks.net/paste/carla_dsc.txt
<OvenWerks> Most of these things talk about bad source :) but the build depnds at least are broken
<OvenWerks> (or maybe I have it backwards)
<OvenWerks> I only tested the main carla package, not the bridge or plugins
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: oh and I am realizing that is not with pedantic. Hmm, doesn't seem to make much difference
#ubuntustudio-devel 2018-06-24
 * tsimonq2 waves
<tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: I'll be happy to vouch, just CC me on the ticket.\
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: They're all from the same control and copyright file, so that can be fixed.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Overall, these issues can be overcome.
<OvenWerks> Yes, just a) pointing them out, B) showing the command line I used for them.
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, I got that. I think getting it to compile, package, and install was at least half the battle.
<OvenWerks>  I don't remember if it also works running lintian against src directory. I do remember that running against different places shows different things
<OvenWerks> Yes, good work.
<Eickmeyer> I had been working on it since Wednesday, so you can imagine my relief when it actually _worked_.
<OvenWerks> :)
<OvenWerks> What I remember is that, it was easy to build from git, but hard to get it into a src package
<OvenWerks> I could create a binary package directly, but that is not acceptable for the debian/ubuntu repos.
<OvenWerks> (And I do agree with that idea)
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. It took a little finessing the makefile, control, and rules files since they were a bit, shall we say, off?
<OvenWerks> :) yes
<Eickmeyer> It was looking for a lot of -static build depends and there were parts of the makefile and rules file that had been depricated in February.
<OvenWerks> the plugin parts should be static.
<Eickmeyer> It barked at me every time if the requested package name was *-static.
<Eickmeyer> So, I just switched to the *-dev package for the build deps.
<OvenWerks> I think falktx may have his own set of -static packages.
<Eickmeyer> Exactly, I just had to point it to what is already in main & universe.
<OvenWerks> The "debian way" is to load libs on demand to save memory. However, lib modules tht share namespace can conflict from one plugin to the next.
<OvenWerks> Statically compiles plugins are "correct"
<OvenWerks> This is why many of the good plugins use the author's own GUI toolkit rather than gtk or qt.
<OvenWerks> Or they use something like fltk where the header file _is_ the lib.
<OvenWerks> This is also why Calf and guitarix cause trouble in some setups.
<Eickmeyer> I see.
<OvenWerks> I haven't tried for some time, but it used to be that after viewing the guitarix plugin GUI, Ardour's colour scheme would change till restart.
<OvenWerks> Doesn't seem to now.
<OvenWerks> Hmm, It doesn't look like we install guitarix... at least I don't remember removing it.
<OvenWerks> we do have guitarix-lv2 though
<Eickmeyer> I've used those plugins with Ardour and have never had an issue.
<Eickmeyer> Of course, I use lv2 nearly exclusively.
<OvenWerks> It may be because you are using Ardour from ubuntu and not from Ardour.org, but who knows?
<Eickmeyer> I've used it both ways.
<OvenWerks> I am wondering why I have only the guitarix-lv2 package installed as our seeds list guitarix
<OvenWerks> guitarix when run from the commandline works ok, but on exit it core dumps. Not something I would notice running ti from the menu.
<Eickmeyer> Interesting.
<OvenWerks> But it works fine as a plugin (so far) which is a much more likely place for me to use it.
<Eickmeyer> Same. I don't even use Calf natively.
<OvenWerks> I haven't used Calf for ages, nothing in there I need I think.
<Eickmeyer> I use mostly mono input, EQs, and delays for live performance.
<Eickmeyer> The delays simulate tape delays, which is pretty cool.
<OvenWerks> I use a-eq or fil4
<OvenWerks> Damian's stuff is pretty good too.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: did you ever get phones/speakers working? What computer do you have?
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-17
 * Eickmeyer would like to announce the newest Ubuntu Core Developer: teward!
<Eickmeyer> Everyone, shower teward with coffee.
<teward> but not TOO much coffee.  I need to watch my blood pressure :)
<Eickmeyer> Psh, that's why I take Lisinopril. :P
<teward> because you drink too much coffee?  xD
<Eickmeyer> Haha, high blood pressure problems to begin with, really genetic.
 * Eickmeyer has to go spend time with his son on his first day of summer break, and replace the display in his main laptop
 * OvenWerks waves a welcome 
<OvenWerks> o/
<M_aD> congrats teward
<studiobot> <teward001> thanks M_aD
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer already sent me a list of things for consideration  lol xD
<studiobot> <teward001> barely been coredev a couple of hours and already Eickmeyer wants me to sponsor things LOL
<OvenWerks> teward001: That is probably our weakest spot.
<studiobot> <teward001> indeed, as Eickmeyer has indicated.  Nobody has upload rights for many of the packages in the team, so it's all been find a sponsor, get sponsored, get addressed
<studiobot> <teward001> and its hindered dev AIUI
<OvenWerks> Studio was pretty much static for a few years... including last lts :P
<studiobot> <teward001> yeah I read through the discussion materials but did help get something poked for review quickly for Eickmeyer
<studiobot> <teward001> advantage of being a persistent annoying person sometimes ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> I do have a few things I need to upload though.  NGINX distropatch to handle a pidfile problem, and some dependency problem SRUs for some Universe packages I use but :)
<studiobot> <teward001> after that I have some time to review a few things.
<OvenWerks> I need to pick up where I left off with Ardour for a while. I have almost forgotten what I was working on...
<Eickmeyer> teward: Well, thanks for everthing you've done and are doing.
 * Eickmeyer just got his main laptop back... new display. IPS now as opposed to TFT.
<OvenWerks> working instead of broken... all that matters ;)
<Eickmeyer> Haha, indeed.
<Eickmeyer> Just need to calibrate the screen. The colors seem a bit... off.
<OvenWerks> colours? I thought there were only two colours, green and black.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks, TIL you still live in 1982
<OvenWerks> Actually my terminal was yellow on black... Ampex or something. I used as server display till it quit (finally) about 2 years ago. I think it was 86ish If I remember correctly, but it may have been older. I think it replaced the older ones.
<Eickmeyer> Actually, that's impressive.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-18
<teward> Eickmeyer: thank you for the thanks.  But still, yes, once I get my stuff out of the way i may be able to provide you some assists eventually
<Eickmeyer> teward: Awesome. No rush on that. :)
<teward> Eickmeyer: you have PMs :P
<Eickmeyer> teward: Thanks, I was eating dinner with my family.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-19
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: teward is reviewing your code for ubuntustudio-menu-add.
<teward> cursory review
<teward> nothing in-depth ;)
<teward> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks: BUGS == ROADMAP, is this intentional?
<teward> (same file twice)
<teward> just curious
<Eickmeyer> teward: I believe the file was supposed to be renamed ROADMAP, but the BUGS file didn't get deleted? Might've been a git collision, for lack of a better term.
<teward> nope still present there
<Eickmeyer> smh
<Eickmeyer> I can fix unless you want to just kill it with fire.
<teward> Eickmeyer: i don't have upload to this code branch
<teward> if you can update it in the git that'd be great
<Eickmeyer> I can. standby...
<teward> your changelog also is UNRELEASED
<teward> which is not a valid target
<teward> I assume you want me to just alter that
<Eickmeyer> Ugh... also will fix.
<teward> eesh, native package.
<teward> Not complaining MUCH but...
<teward> I prefer quilts ;)
<teward> not an impact on the review though just me shivering because Debianisms
<teward> and some chaos i've had to deal with there
<Eickmeyer> Yeah, it's a native package. No reason to not be native since it's for Ubuntu only.
<teward> yep
<teward> Eickmeyer: other than those issues I pointed at
<teward> everything LOOKS OK
<teward> it'll need AA review of course, but fix the things I indicated
<Eickmeyer> Ok. Fixing now.
<teward> for ubuntustudio-menu-add anyways
<Eickmeyer> teward: Fixed.
<teward> Eickmeyer: ack.  Going to run this through local sbuild with LIntian calls, as well
<teward> give me a bit
<teward> gotta spin an eoan chroot ;)
<Eickmeyer> No worries.
<teward> hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<teward> Eickmeyer: there's a few things in the built binaries that throw some lintian pedantic warnings
<teward> W: ubuntustudio-menu-add: binary-without-manpage usr/bin/ubuntustudio-menu-add
<teward> if this shouldn't have a manpage you might want an override...
<teward> and this is when `lintian --pedantic` is run on the built binaries inside the sbuild schroot
<teward> it passes but not sure how pedantic you want me to be with warnings
<Eickmeyer> teward: In the past, vorlon, infinity, and sil2100 have just let that one go.
<teward> ack
<teward> i'll make a note of it but i'll consider it 'passing'
<teward> since it didnt lintian-fail
<teward> just something i noticed
<Eickmeyer> Ok.
<Eickmeyer> ack
<teward> and i'm overly pedantic ;)
<teward> and in Debian they whine more when that triggers
<Eickmeyer> Yeah.
<teward> builds clean, looks lintian clean except for that
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
<Eickmeyer> teward: When (if) you get to dpf-plugins, don't expect manpages for that either. Those plugins are something that you would only run if you already knew how to run them.
<Eickmeyer> Live/Recording Audio Engineers, for example.
<teward> yeah i'm just overly pedantic from the Debianisms I've had to handle :P
<Eickmeyer> No worries.
<teward> Eickmeyer: uploaded to NEW queue
 * teward needs food
<Eickmeyer> teward: Saw that, thanks!
<teward> Eickmeyer: eoan-proposed next time though the system redirects it
<Eickmeyer> teward: I was always told to target the release directly, letting the system redirect it.
<teward> *shrugs*
<teward> i'm picky ;)
<teward> but all's good
<teward> the system'll redirect it regardless :)
 * Eickmeyer *thumbsup*
<teward> OvenWerks: what Eickmeyer is NOT telling you is I want to school you in how PEP8 works :P
<teward> and how triple-apostrophe strings are NOT comments.
<teward> flake threw all sorts of "WTH" info level warns there :|
<teward> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks: you do NOT want to know the complaints sarnold has
<sarnold> ahoy pals, could I beg someone to replace all the calls to rm and cp with native python calls instead, in https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-menu-add/tree/usr/bin/ubuntustudio-menu-add ?
<teward> sarnold: you should NACK it
<sarnold> it'd also be a huge favour to me to rexplace the exoedit thing with an array-based execution, see https://docs.python.org/3/library/subprocess.html#subprocess.run for an example
<Eickmeyer> Oh boy...
<sarnold> https://docs.python.org/3/library/os.html#os.unlink
<sarnold> the file *copy* is annoying, but this may be a suitable replacement: https://docs.python.org/3/library/shutil.html#shutil.copyfile
<teward> sarnold: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-menu-add/+bug/1831154 also please
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1831154 in Ubuntu Studio Menu Add "[needs-packaging] ubuntustudio-menu-add" [Medium,In progress]
<teward> i would suggest you also offload your comments there
<teward> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks: I also ran a "dig" into here with my own knowledge and though I don't see an obvious exploit mechanism, I *HATE* subprocess wrappers where not needed
<teward> esp. in latest Python in Eoan
<teward> so I asked AA / release team to REJECT the package as-is
<teward> as well, all the things sarnold indicated
<Eickmeyer> ack
<teward> i didn't do a full code dig and though I've DONE these kinds of subprocess wraps before...
<teward> there's inbuilt os calls for lots of these things
<teward> and those're preferred to these subprocess wraps
<teward> ALTERNATIVELY
<teward> give me direct upload rights to your code base
<teward> i'll rewrite it myself ;)
<teward> *shot*
<teward> oh wait
<teward> i forgot
<teward> my membership gives me upload :|
<Eickmeyer> teward: Haha
<sarnold> it's still polite to ask :)
<Eickmeyer> teward: Go ahead. I trust you.
<teward> i'll provide a patch for it that they can apply :p
<teward> sarnold: and let you review it too xD
<teward> UNRELATED also use spaces not tabs
<teward> because tabs suck
<teward> this... is messy :|
<teward> sarnold: we're in Py 3.7+ in Eoan right?
<sarnold> teward: I think so; at the moment umt search reports python 3.7 in main, 3.8 in universe in eoan
<teward> 3.7+ is fine
<teward> because formatstrings
<teward> saves doing string arithmetic
<Eickmeyer> teward, sarnold: OvenWerks does most of his development in bionic, I believe.
<teward> Eickmeyer: they can still use formatstrings :P
<teward> the point is that i hate this string arithmetic
<teward> "string data1:{} data2:{}".format(value1, value2)
<Eickmeyer> I know, I was just referring to the 3.7 vs 3.8.
<teward> ^ condensed to: f'string data1:{value1} data2:{value2}'
 * Eickmeyer couldn't code his way out of a paper bag, so he sticks to packaging
<teward> but as long as it's 3.7+ it's fine
<teward> note to self: don't code review without food
<teward> Eickmeyer: you and OvenWerks are going to hate me
<teward> because of this patch
<Eickmeyer> teward: I'm not, and I hope OvenWerks doesn't.
<Eickmeyer> I am just grateful for the contribution!
<teward> oh this is a LARGE patch
<teward> sarnold: oh fun fact
<teward> your subprocess array approach?
<teward> for the one remaining SP call?
<teward> sp.run(shlex.split("the full command string"), ...)  <-- shortcut
<teward> i know a few tricks LOL
<sarnold> teward: btw I hate that approach
<sarnold> the whole point of using the array based approach is that the programmer actually knows what the arguments are, and asking the shell, or shlex, or whatever, to split them apart, is likely to break something, or let some smartasss name a file $(id) or whatever
<teward> sarnold: true.
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> Look who's in the Ubuntu Studio chat :D
<teward> sarnold: but in this case these args don't seem fixed that way.  We could do that though
<teward> @tsimonq2 there's a nuke with your name on it waiting in the Lubuntu infra
<teward> go fix it
<studiobot> <tsimonq2> @teward [<teward> @tsimonq2 there's a nuke with your name on it waiting in the Lubuntu in â¦], Oh?
<teward> whoopsies i forgot to attach that patch
<teward> Eickmeyer: sarnold: patch attached to the bug
<teward> sarnold: i think you'll be happy with it
<teward> but the patch is HUGE because tabs -> 4-spaces
<teward> because the other thing I found was ***mixed punctuation***
<teward> s/punctuation/indentations/
<teward> which throws INdentationErrors
<teward> sarnold: this patch is not a small one, but it pulls all the subprocess wrapped rm/cp and replaces them with os.unlink/shutil.copyfile accordingly
<teward> tsimonq2: and no there's no nuke in the infra for you to deal with
<teward> i just wanted to drive you insane :P
<teward> Eickmeyer has an annoying habit they picked up from me
<teward> being insistent on asking for things
<teward> like sponsoring
<teward> ... or in this case NOT tearing OvenWerks a new one
<teward> Eickmeyer: wrt developing in Bionic...
<Eickmeyer> teward: I appreciate it.
<teward> i dev for 3.7/3.8 in Bionic too
<teward> pyenv is my friend
<teward> also lets me have 3.5 for the ancient infra I have to support for some older boxes
<teward> Eickmeyer: this'll need a run test of course
<teward> not just a build test
<Eickmeyer> teward: ack
<teward> because I had to remove some of the logic that WAS in place because subprocess is gone for some calls
<teward> the logic *SHOULD* still function as is
<teward> but it's... eh
<sarnold> teward: it's usually better to stuff whitespace patches into their own thing, so the substantive fixes are easier to review
<teward> good point
<teward> sarnold: i can split that out but in this case my IDE did the autochanging
<teward> sarnold: still, i think you'll like this.  https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/JX8gBK6fM4/ has the code after my revisions
<sarnold> ahhhh that's the stuff :)
 * OvenWerks actually has his tabs set to 2 spaces width
<OvenWerks> teward: thank you for your work. I am relatively new to python, coming from c,c++,have done perl and tcl/tk in the past as well
<OvenWerks> my main reason for working in python at all it that it seems to be favoured and is less likey to require adding more libs (though tcl/tk is used by enough other stuff it is always there for the studio iso)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: There's a patch in the bug report if you want to apply it and play with it.
<OvenWerks> I was looking for that... thanks.
<OvenWerks> I can create a man page if needed, but it would just be a rehash of the included help in the GUI :)
<OvenWerks> sorry I forgot.
<Eickmeyer> bug 1831154
<ubottu> bug 1831154 in Ubuntu Studio Menu Add "[needs-packaging] ubuntustudio-menu-add" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1831154
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: A man page is always welcome and would get rid of that lintian warning.
<Eickmeyer> teward: ^
<OvenWerks> with all the tab to space fixes I can't see what he did...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It's mostly whitespaces. I'd look at the diff if you can.
<OvenWerks> unlink is fine though. At some point I should change the var cmd to something more descriptive
<OvenWerks> teward: I will try to remember that for python I should for some insane reason use spaces instead of tabs. :P
<OvenWerks> I am actually surprised there were any spaces
<OvenWerks> must have been cut and paste
<OvenWerks> teward: I have tried using array based execution in the past and after loosing some hair went to the define comandline, run. Leftovers from bash no doubt and much easier to read from my POV.
<OvenWerks> anyway. I will run the patch.
<OvenWerks> Ga!, now it doesn't work...
<OvenWerks> Ya, 0k...
<OvenWerks> teward: same problem... array based execution doesn't work.
<OvenWerks> teward: I have put back in the string based command line and uploaded. I have yet to be able to get array based commands to work (I have also tried in the past) and in fact I have had problems using a joined string within the command as well... which is why a define the command line first as a string and use it. That is all that has ever actually worked
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^
<Eickmeyer[m]> teward and sarnold are more worried about the security implications for this. AFAIK, theyâre both east-coasters, so theyâll see this in the morning.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: maybe they can figure out why the array based execution doesn't work.
<studiobot> <teward001> Probably a subproccess headache
<studiobot> <teward001> which I run into myself
<studiobot> <teward001> sarnold: ^ this is usually why I hate subprocess calls.
<studiobot> <teward001> OvenWerks: I can fix that as well - but for some reason there was mixed indentation.  Reverting the array based call is an easy you can do yourself but the main problem was the unsafe calls to cp/rm via subprocess
<studiobot> <teward001> because that can easily be exploited with the right few code stabs
<studiobot> <teward001> though exploitability on that is LOW it's still a headache
<studiobot> <teward001> let me poke at this after I get to work
<teward> sarnold: call/run don't seem to accept things properly, so i'm going to go with their initial approach which I think works.
<teward> there's some oddness in subprocess with how commands are passed and I REGULARLY have this headache.
<teward> OvenWerks: I condensed the 'old way' you were doing into a single line - https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-menu-add/commit/?id=f395294eb0dc1efd24be846e27974b453c5e80ff
<teward> that's the ONLY time i'm pushing to the code
<teward> if you and Eickmeyer / Eickmeyer[m] would like to test this that'd be great.
<teward> i'll make a note in the bug
<teward> if it works with that in line then that should take care of the major issues
<teward> and i'll do another last-minute review
<studiobot> * teward001 pours some salt on @Eickmeyer just to make sure they're pinged accordingly.
<Eickmeyer> teward: Did you commit it to master?
<Eickmeyer> Nm, I see that you did.
<teward> Eickmeyer: yes?
<Eickmeyer> I SAID nevermind. ;) 
<teward> :P
<teward> *salts Eickmeyer anyways*
 * Eickmeyer throws a full coffee mug at teward
 * teward already has had 4 coffees, does not need another
<OvenWerks> teward: cp/rm was just me not learning python well enough. The subprocess.call string formating is different and so probably works. I have always tried putting the string together with + and that did not work for me.
<OvenWerks> I struggled with the subprocess calls for a long time before I came up with the way I finally used
<teward> OvenWerks: i actually tested both run AND call
<teward> with an 'echo' command
<teward> only worked with strings
<teward> which means I'll go digging on that later
<teward> I COULD HAVE SWORN I got it to work
<teward> but i'll have to go poking at my other scripts
<teward> OvenWerks: and I have no provlem with the subprocess calls :)
<teward> the only difference is
<teward> instead of var = somestr; sp.call(var, ...)
<teward> just define the string inside the call ;)
<teward> that's the only one-line condensing I did :)
<studiobot> <teward001> HOLY HANNA I'm spamming myself on AndroIRC xD
<OvenWerks> Yes that works just fine.
<teward> yep.  And saves some memory space, albeit only a little bit :)
<OvenWerks> I also removed some excess comments last night.
<OvenWerks> teward: I had never seen that method of creating strings before. Is there a quick link I can use to read up on it?
<OvenWerks> (and does it work inside of a print() as well?)
<teward> https://realpython.com/python-f-strings/
<OvenWerks> does it work on the right side of an =
<teward> OvenWerks: yes, it works wherever a string would be defined
<teward> it's actually born from "".format
<teward> which https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/python-format-function/ is decent at explaining
<teward> OvenWerks: but the f"foo {blah}" where blah is a variable format is 'new' enough I don't trust it on < py3.7
<OvenWerks> cool, it may make things better in -controls too then. (no there are no cp/rm in there)
<teward> it's supported in 3.6 but :)
<teward> OvenWerks: indeed, there's a ton of ways to condense
<teward> to quote sarnold, I could probably if I put my mind to it make things a lot shorter
<teward> but :P
<teward> I tend to backwards-compat my code for 16.04's py3.5 so I use "{}".format(var) instead
<OvenWerks> teward: I learn by doing.
<teward> but i've been falling in LOVE with the in-line strings :)
<teward> yep
<teward> well that's how you learn :)
<teward> I learn by doing as well
<teward> but i don't have any RECENT code examples on it :)
<teward> keep in mind also i only JUST got coredev so my bootprints are not yet everywhere :p
<teward> they're starting to show up though, with this package :P
<teward> mmmmm, dark-chocolate covered peanuts... *snacks*
<OvenWerks> coffee
<teward> had that
<teward> 4 cups already :)
<teward> but caffeine doesn't negate hunger so
<OvenWerks> I just got up and made breakfast for my son.
<teward> indeed :)
<OvenWerks> my eating will wait till my Yf gets up.
<teward> 11:14 here so by now i should probably switch into 'lunch' mode soon enough heh
<OvenWerks> Food is food, I still call meat cow and pig rather than beef and pork.
<OvenWerks> f-strings "new"? actually it is kinds like the old school (bash, perl) ${var}
<Eickmeyer> Holy crap, the build far is either stuck or extremely busy. 17050 jobs in the queue, 23 hour wait. 
<Eickmeyer> *farm
<studiobot> <teward001> OvenWerks: new for Python ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: yikes, there was build issues earlier
<Eickmeyer> @teward001: cjwatson said they were doing a test rebuild.
<studiobot> <teward001> that would explain it
<teward> Eickmeyer: if you need me to fast-build I can compile for amd64 for you to test sooner
<teward> but you'll of course have to download the .deb and install
<Eickmeyer> teward: Yeah, I coul download the .deb now and do it, tbh. It's done building, it just hasn't published to the PPA. Looks like build dispatching is also paused, so publishing is likely not to happen as well.
<teward> i'll sbuild it on eoan amd64 local then upload somewhere standby
<Eickmeyer> I stand corrected, it just published.
 * Eickmeyer is installing the built deb now
<teward> heh
<teward> well that was a fast build now xD
<teward> Eickmeyer: https://people.ubuntu.com/~teward/ubuntustudio-menu-add_0.1_all.deb if the PPA is slow :P
<teward> yay for sbuild :)
<Eickmeyer> teward: Already have it. Everything works from my tests, but OvenWerks might have some more in-depth testing.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: New build in autobuilds, you can probably just apt upgrade.
<teward> and if that doesn't work for you I have the built binary in that link above :)
<teward> Eickmeyer: I almost totally forgot about 'people.u.c' though as an SFTP upload point xD
 * Eickmeyer hasn't used people.u.c, and probably could.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Let us (me & teward) know how testing ubuntustudio-menu-add goes.
<studiobot> * teward001 was poked
<studiobot> * teward001 goes back to poking redis-server instead
<Eickmeyer> hehe
 * teward drops a crate of onions on Eickmeyer
<teward> oops :)
<Eickmeyer> MMmmm... walla walla sweets...
 * Eickmeyer starts grilling the onions for burgers
 * sarnold spills some kosher salt and slices off a big piece of onion
<Eickmeyer> ^this guy onions.
<teward> i'm sorry you assume that sarnold is NOT ALREADY an onion :p
<teward> *shot*
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it may be a fewhours before I can play with it. The machine I am on is still 16.04... (son's laptop)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: No worries. teward^
 * Eickmeyer wanders off to play a game with his son
<teward> ack
<teward> OvenWerks: i miiight have a way to make the 'subprocess.run' with an array work
<teward> but we need to drop shell=True possibly
<teward> (to sate sarnold's concerns)
<teward> OvenWerks: Eickmeyer: specifically, http://people.ubuntu.com/~teward/array-based_subprocess_execution_of_exo-desktop-item-edit.patch
<teward> which i THINK works proper
<teward> but again, needs the tests :)
<teward> no rush
<teward> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks: http://people.ubuntu.com/~teward/ubuntustudio-menu-add_0.1_all_v2.deb <-- with that last patch
<teward> in case you want to test :)
<teward> (since the builders are slow)
<OvenWerks> teward: I think the terminal was there because it uses the binary name without the path.
<teward> possibly, but I don't think hwe have a choice so longa s the binary is in PATH
<OvenWerks> again one of those things I tried more than one way
<teward> OvenWerks: we could also hardcode the full path
<teward> which is probably the even safer approach
<teward> i don't know the full path though for that binary
<OvenWerks> I don't suppose it is likely to move from one cycle to the next ;)
<teward> yeah, in which case hardcode it
<teward> i know that hardcoding things like that *tends* to be a bad thing
<teward> but we can always patch code later if things cahnge :P
<OvenWerks> $ which exo-desktop-item-edit 
<OvenWerks> /usr/bin/exo-desktop-item-edit
<teward> change*
<teward> patch updated i'll update that .deb :p
<OvenWerks> using the full path is always considered more secure
<studiobot> <teward001> yes, it is
<OvenWerks> pk won't allow anything else
<studiobot> <teward001> http://people.ubuntu.com/~teward/ubuntustudio-menu-add_0.1_all_v3.deb is the 3rd deb version then including the fullpath this time
<studiobot> <teward001> again, in case you all want to supersede the speed of the builders ;)
<OvenWerks> teward: I won't be able to test for a few hours (prolly 1430 local (-0700))
<teward> that's fine
<teward> as i said no rush
<teward> but the builders are stressed right now
<teward> so :P
<OvenWerks> Spending time with my Yf before she goes to work.
<teward> no problem :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-20
<OvenWerks> teward: yes that works. I like that it is much easier to read and easy to make sure there are spaces where they need to be without adding +" "+ kinds of junk.
<OvenWerks> I have found another bug though :(  I will look at fixing that.
<teward> yep.  this is why I like format strings :P
<teward> OvenWerks: and what bug, if I may ask?
<OvenWerks> the visible check box was not working right (just pushed fix) I could make something not visible, but could not make it visible again. And I had to do an edit to do even that.
<OvenWerks> teward: ^^ So I have fixed that. (running glade to add one small change sure makes for a big diff)
<teward> OvenWerks: I take it that was not my fault then :p
<OvenWerks> no not your falt
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I just triggered a rebuild.
<teward> Eickmeyer: might be a while :Po
<teward> I can fast build if you want
<Eickmeyer> teward: I'm in no rush.
<Eickmeyer> Dunno about OvenWerks
<teward> well this also lets me notice any odd new lintian warns :p
<Eickmeyer> teward: Also, looks like it's already built and just needs to be publish.
<Eickmeyer> teward: True. Go ahead.
<teward> yep looks good.
<teward> not sure if hte publisher will be fast enough :P
<teward> but i'm impatient :)
<teward> https://people.ubuntu.com/~teward/ubuntustudio-menu-add_0.1_all_v4.deb if you are as impatient as I :)
<teward> glad to hear though my little change there didn't blow it up :)
<teward> i thought for a second I had introduced another bug xD
<Eickmeyer> Nah, looks like you're good. Any problems that came from that have been circumvented, I take it?
<teward> Eickmeyer: AIUI yes
<teward> OW said there was a bug in the visible checkbox not working right
<teward> but not related to my code
<teward> and I think OW is now in love with format strings xD
<Eickmeyer> I see that. Looks like he fixed it.
<Eickmeyer> hehehehe
<teward> both f-strings
<teward> and "".format :P
<Eickmeyer> Maybe someday I'll learn Python and know what that means.
<teward> heh
<teward> Eickmeyer: basically?
<Eickmeyer> Huh?
<teward> instead of doing "some string "+variable+" was here" it's easier to know where things are in the string
<teward> f"some string {variable} was here"  <-- easier to make sure things are exactly where they need to be
<teward> AND to quote out entire args
<Eickmeyer> Okay, that makes sense.
<Eickmeyer> I had to turn that into a bash script in my head.
<teward> it's not actaully that far off ;)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: f-strings are like super bash instring variables as the "variables" can be equasions or the return of functions
<teward> OvenWerks: can we confirm the bugs you ID'd are fixed and documented in the changelog and 'ready for upload'?
<teward> and that 'this works'?
<teward> once that's ready I can responsor it
<OvenWerks> teward: they bugs are fixed... running my local file before uploading. I will DL the package and check this afternoon to check that way too.
<OvenWerks> teward: in many ways I would like other people to try it as that exposes my blind spots...
<OvenWerks> but we seems to have very few people willing to do that.
<OvenWerks> When I build something, everything inside is "intuitive" to me... but I tend to be the odd one out in many of these things
<teward> OvenWerks: well I don't run Studio
<teward> so make Eickmeyer test it :p
 * teward is just here as a 'helper' today
 * Eickmeyer tested it already
<Eickmeyer> teward: I'd go ahead. If we can get it into Eoan, I should have upload rights for bugfixes, or at least can get them from the DMB.
<Eickmeyer> If we can get people testing the dailies, that would be the best route at this point.
 * Eickmeyer is going crazy applying for jobs.
<teward> ack
<teward> i will pull latest, debuild, and upload again.  If it rejects I'll let you know.
<Eickmeyer> teward: ack
<teward> this is missing the subprocess patches...
<teward> the one that switches the subprocess call to array based
<teward> OvenWerks: did that get pushed?
<teward> or did we expect me to apply that?
<teward> or did that still not work?
<teward> the change which does subprocess.run(["/usr/bin/exo-desktop-item-edit", str(self.tempfile)], shell=False) instead of the string based exec
<teward> Eickmeyer: ^ this was the last bit that sarnold wanted done
<teward> but it was untested
<teward> 'cause i'm not on eoan
<teward> nor STudio
<teward> so if this still doesn't work i'll be happy to leave it as is with the strings
<teward> but sarnold wanted it array-based preferably
<teward> rather than string-driven
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks needs to address that then.
<teward> ack
<OvenWerks> I thought that had been changed. sorry, I will look at it.
<OvenWerks>  I thought that was what I tested.
<OvenWerks> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-menu-add/tree/usr/bin/ubuntustudio-menu-add?id=bd332ecd04cf778bd60208dbd187dd9658eaf7b4
<Eickmeyer> teward: ^
<OvenWerks> line 418
<teward> OvenWerks: that's the format-string driven one
<teward> i had another patch hang on
<teward> that applied it as an *array* with the full path
<teward> guess it never pushed
<teward> 'cause i didn't hit push
<OvenWerks> I notice the terminal =true too :(
<teward> yeah that's why it's not got my code in it.  Mine uses shell=False
<teward> and sarnold doesn't like shell=True if it can be avoided
<teward> for security reasons
<teward> okay...
<teward> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-menu-add/commit/?id=50791c079560173736ec8eaaa2dc4362b297c0e0
<teward> which uses the array
<teward> lets see if *this* works.  if not we'll revert
<teward> this pulls the full path in so
<teward> if this works as-is then all is good
<teward> it SHOULD but it'll need a test ;)
<OvenWerks> teward: that works here.... so what is different? When we tried it before it failed. Maybe shell == yes needs string?
<teward> OvenWerks: no
<teward> it's shell=False
<teward> taht's what we needed
<teward> which i discovered during some tests
<OvenWerks> Yes, I agree
<OvenWerks> I was wondering why it failed before (yesterday)
<teward> yeah i was headscratching
<teward> then i did some local Python subprocess call tests
<teward> and found it
<OvenWerks> The only differences I see are " rather than ', full path and Shell=false
<OvenWerks> I think the shell=False could be omitted as being default but leaving it in is self documenting.
<OvenWerks> teward: ^^
<teward> yeah I left it in there for explicitly making sure.  I used double quotes by accident, but from Python's perspective 'foobar' == "foobar"  as they're both strings
<teward> if you prefer single quotes that's a minor change
<OvenWerks> Not worth it
<teward> mmkay.  I need to add some changelog entries since I contributed now :|
<OvenWerks> I tend toward double quotes... not sure why (K&R c maybe?)
<teward> *SHRUGS*
<teward> oops caps
<teward> OK so I also added to the changelog since it has my two revisions per sarnold
<teward> sarnold: want to do one last review before this gets reeval'd for sponsoring?
<sarnold> sure
<teward> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-menu-add/tree/usr/bin/ubuntustudio-menu-add should be less offensive wrt subprocess and lib calls :)
<sarnold> btw is there a reason why this line uses concatenation?
<sarnold> self.tempfile = str(os.path.expanduser("~/"))+".config/ubuntustudio_menu_temp.desktop"
<teward> sarnold: because OvenWerks hasn't gotten to using an f-string for it yet
<sarnold> hmm I guess I could just try ..
<teward> since they only learned about format strings yesterday-ish(?)
<sarnold> os.path.expanduser("~/.does/not/exist")
<sarnold> '/home/sarnold/.does/not/exist'
<sarnold> no need for foramt strings
<teward> sarnold: the concat is to add the rest.
<teward> that's why the concat as is works
<teward> and yes i'm annoying asking sarnold to spotcheck
<teward> but since sarnold caught the first batch of errors
<teward> i'm being cautious :)
<teward> oh OvenWerks just a question
<teward> self.menufolder in menu_cb
<teward> that's not init'd in __init__
<teward> should it be?
<teward> even if it's init'd to None?
<teward> (code inspection shows it as a low-level consideration)
<teward> (not blocking but still a question)
<sarnold> teward: well, it looks like os.path.expanduser() doesn't need the file to exist, it should work fine without the concatenation or format string or hwatever
<teward> indeed, it doesn't.
<teward> sarnold: so you're saying straight os.path.expanduser("~/.config/ubuntustudio_menu_temp.desktop")  ?
<teward> (as an example)
<sarnold> yeah that should work, right?
<teward> yep even without the str-casting since it returns a str
<sarnold> yay
<teward> anything else glaring?
<teward> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks: and forgive our bootprints over this :)
<sarnold> nope, thanks for fixing up the executions to use arrays :)
<teward> yeah that was a PITA to trace
<teward> OvenWerks: at your convenience, `git pull` and test please :)
<teward> if all still works
<teward> i'll sponsor it up :)
<Eickmeyer> teward, sarnold: I think I speak for both of us when I say any improvements are welcoe.
<Eickmeyer> *welcome
<teward> indeed.
<teward> Eickmeyer: of course, sarnold does A LOT of code review so spots things I sometimes don't :)
<Eickmeyer> Makes sense.
<sarnold> everyone spots different things :)
<sarnold> I'm good at noticing things along syscall boundaries
<sarnold> and sometimes algorithmic mistakes
<sarnold> other people know specific idioms in languages better
<OvenWerks> teward: self.menufolder is actually initialized in the glade file.
<sarnold> but now time to watch some women's world cup :) have fun
<studiobot> <teward001> OvenWerks: ah.  ack, OK.
<studiobot> <teward001> just thought I'd ask :)
<studiobot> <teward001> OvenWerks: if everything works fine here though as-is then this is Good 2 Go and I'll be happy to upload (unless you want a test build too)
<OvenWerks> the data is static unlike submenu
<OvenWerks> I am still testing, I looked at the init first
<OvenWerks> I din't know I could give the whole string for expanduser. Thank you. Yes that still works.
<OvenWerks> teward: thinking about logically, it does make sense I could do it that way.
 * OvenWerks wonders how ubuntustudio-controls got through...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Probably because it was an already-existing binary.
<OvenWerks> I will go through -controls sometime fixing some of these things there as well.
<OvenWerks> The lines of code count should go down.
<teward> OvenWerks: probably because it didn't have me or sarnold digging into the code :P
<teward> (my coredev is new as of this week and Eickmeyer asked me to poke so :P)
<OvenWerks> teward: I will at least go through the code first before we sak for a look.
<studiobot> <teward001> ð
<OvenWerks> I should be able to get rid of things like shell=True
<teward> OvenWerks: yeah, since shell=True is already insecure
<teward> they even say it in the docs xD
<teward> thanks for the effort though, just make sure it works with the array execution and those strings being expanded
<teward> if all looks good I'll kick it into NEW queue
<OvenWerks> yup, but it is obvious to me my main problem there is using the shell to find the executable, just give the path and that can go away
<OvenWerks> teward: ubuntustudio-menu-add looks good to me. anything those changes affect has been tested.
<studiobot> <teward001> ack
<studiobot> <teward001> are you and Eickmeyer comfortable with this being 0.1 in the repos then?
<OvenWerks> yes
<OvenWerks> when I work on -controls, I will commit each kind of change. (maybe tab to space frst)
<studiobot> <teward001> good idea :)
 * OvenWerks is off to lunch
<teward> OvenWerks: Eickmeyer: just as an FYI: the package was accepted to the NEW queue as is now
<teward> it's waiting AA review
<teward> at their convenience.
 * teward goes to pack up before heading home from work
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-21
<OvenWerks> teward: wrt subprocess.run, It doesn't do what I want it to do when I would have in the past used a command line with & at the end (works with shell=True of course but we don't want that)
<teward> if you're trying to fork something into the background that can cause a problem
<teward> OvenWerks: the other option is to just straight string call it but that's... not the best option either.  You could ask sarnold's opinion
<teward> right now i'm heading to bed i'm tired
<OvenWerks> teward: we have some "convenience" buttons that start things like a mixer
<teward> good night.
<OvenWerks> tomorrow
<OvenWerks> I'll keep looking
<teward> OvenWerks: we can revert that bit, if yuo really want it included in the NEW version, you or Eickmeyer can ask vorlon in #ubuntu-release to reject the upload on those grounds.
<teward> but that's your guys call.
 * teward needs sleep.  <off>
<OvenWerks> subprocess.Popen(["/bin/mycmd", "myarg"]).pid did the trick.
<teward> eesh popen's a low level operation but yeah...
<teward> that can be headachey
<teward> just tread lightly :p
<teward> OvenWerks: if you need me to reupload let me know
<teward> I asked AAs to NACK the package that WAS uploaded because of this bug
<teward> Eickmeyer: OvenWerks: ***Test the hell out of this as is - no additional changes*** before I consider it ready for sponsoring again.
<teward> no additioanl changes except bugfixes*
<OvenWerks> teward: "the package" so far as I know ubuntustudio-menu-add was ok as of yesterday about noon. After that I started working on ubuntustudio-controls to remove all shell=True
<studiobot> <teward001> @ovenWerks are you saying that the subprocess.Popen call was not needed?
<studiobot> <teward001> it sounded from your messages that the subprocess.run was not behaving right
<studiobot> <teward001> and for some cases it probably won't
<studiobot> <teward001> but i need to know specifically (because your statements were unclear) as to the state of that package.
<OvenWerks> teward: so all comments after about 12:30 (probably 1530 your time) are in reguard to -controls
<studiobot> <teward001> ack
<studiobot> <teward001> OK
<studiobot> <teward001> i wasn't sure ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> but i'll RESPONSOR this and ask seb to review it, then apologize to the AAs for the confusion
<OvenWerks> There have been no changes to menu-add
<teward> Eickmeyer: there was another two packages on the radar, weren't there?
<teward> that you bugged me about
<Eickmeyer> teward: Yes, dpf-plugins and pulseeffects (though that one isn't mine, just wanted to get the ball rolling for the dev).
<teward> dpf-plugins *is* yours though yes?
<Eickmeyer> teward: Well, I didn't write it, but I did the packaging.
<studiobot> <teward001> well we can say the same for ubuntustudio-menu-add too ;)
<studiobot> <teward001> but i mean it had your bootprints in it :P
<teward> Eickmeyer: link me that dpf-plugins bug again here please?
<teward> and sorry for switching between TG and IRC like i'm bouncing between things :p
<Eickmeyer> teward: Standby...
<Eickmeyer> teward: bug 1829562
<ubottu> bug 1829562 in Ubuntu Studio "[Needs Packaging] DPF-Plugins for Eoan" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1829562
<teward> sarnold: you around?
<teward> (I know the answer lol)
<sarnold> teward: pong
<teward> sarnold: teach Eickmeyer how to have the same version of a package in multiple releases per Security Patch Prep guidelines for version strings
<teward> i.e.
<teward> 3.0 in Eoan
<teward> can't be 3.0 in Disco
<teward> iut needs to be 3.0~0ubuntu0.18.10.1 etc.
<sarnold> here's the table the security team uses https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Packaging
<sarnold> probably not-security-people have different rules but this should be pretty good to give the flavour of how it works :)
<teward> sarnold: and for native packages without debrevs?
<teward> in this case its' ubuntustudio-installer that is a bare version string
<teward> and how that'd affect Eoan too
<teward> AIUI you'd have to 'decrement' it in lower releases
<teward> but i usually avoid native packages :)
<sarnold> disco: 0.02, Pocket: release, Component: universe
<sarnold> eoan: 0.04, Pocket: release, Component: universe
<sarnold> these?
<teward> sarnold: yep
<teward> SRU request to 0.04 -> disco
<teward> but sec team kinda sets guidelines on the v strings :)
<teward> AH DAMN
<teward> just spilled my coffee over me >.<
<sarnold> uhoh
<Eickmeyer> Dang.
<teward> sarnold: how would the bare versions be handled for 'backports' direct
<teward> not sure how SRU would handle that but from a version string side I see it being a problem
<sarnold> ~18.04.1, ~18.10.1, etc probably
<teward> yeah that's what i was going to say
<teward> because 0.04~19.04.1 < 0.04
<Eickmeyer> sarnold: Should I make it 0.04~19.04.1?
<Eickmeyer> Oh, nm.
<teward> for a disco sru you probably would need to yes.
<teward> ASSUMING 0.04 is already in Eoan
<Eickmeyer> Well, it's a native package, so that's an issue.
<Eickmeyer> 0.04 is already in eoan. Uploaded it myself.
<sarnold> and I don't know if the sru team would want an 'ubuntu' in there, or if this package exists only in ubuntu, if it's alright to skip it
<teward> yeah this is one of those edge cases that I don't see coming up much
<Eickmeyer> Package exists only in Ubuntu.
<Eickmeyer> Completely native, not intended for Debian under any circumstance.
<Eickmeyer> sarnold: If I put 0.04~19.04.1 since it's native, would that work?
<teward> it should, native or not it's merely how dpkg pays attention to what version is where and such I think
<teward> but that's probably something SRU might balk at
<teward> not sure
<Eickmeyer> Not the first time we've SRU'd something native. 
<sarnold> I don't have a whole lot of experience with sru rules, but that version number would at least keep dpkg happy :)
<teward> yep
<teward> and wouldn't be rejected by the upload system
<Eickmeyer> sarnold, teward: For example, the version of ubuntustudio-controls initially included in disco was 1.7. The SRU'd version is 1.7.1. So, what would happen if I made the SRU for ubuntustudio-installer 0.03? That hasn't been used yet.
<sarnold> did launchpad ever see a version 0.03?
<sarnold> launchpad won't let you reuse version numbers
<Eickmeyer> sarnold: Oh, yes, you're right, it probably did see 0.03. So, if I used the ~19.04.1 suffix, that would do the trick?
<teward> yes, it would
<sarnold> yes
<Eickmeyer> ok. I'll do that.
<teward> Eickmeyer: 0.04 > 0.04~19.04.1 > 0.04~18.10.1 > ...
<Eickmeyer> I see.
<teward> which is a dpkg-ism with how ~ behaves in the string :)
 * Eickmeyer will work on this when he gets back from some minor grocery shopping
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: <seb128> teward, Eickmeyer, looking to ubuntustudio-menu-add there is no COPYING file nor mention of copyright holder or license outside of the debian dir, that seems suboptimal
<OvenWerks> copyright ubuntustudio 2019, gpl2+
<OvenWerks> (According to the about box)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: seb128 is referring to a /COPYING file and a /LICENSE file.
<Eickmeyer> Though, this has never been a requirement for any of our other native packages, so I'm willing to appeal this one.
<OvenWerks> Yeah, I have no idea how to create these.
<OvenWerks> what format they should be etc.
<Eickmeyer> I'm not 100% sure on that one. I think the /LICENSE file just needs to contain the entire text of GPL2.
<OvenWerks> -controls has a COPYING file
<OvenWerks> in -controls the COPYING file has that
<Eickmeyer> Ok, then just copy the COPYING file and that should do it.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Want me to do that?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Nm, put all of that in. I'll let teward know it's done.
<Eickmeyer> Done. teward: new upload ready.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-22
<studiobot> <teward001> in the morning lol
<studiobot> <teward001> ERR:dead
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: don't have to answer right now... With respect to -controls, COPYING in the root directory is GPL2 but the debian/copyright file says gpl2+
<OvenWerks> teward: always feel free to ignor us for the next day
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: which one is right? Or are they both? where one is just the text of gpl2 but gpl2+ is valid?
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am asking because I was going to include the files from https://github.com/jhernberg/udev-rtirq but I am noticing that it is gpl2.0 with no reference to later versions I can see
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the headers in the files say gpl2 +
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: They're both valid. GPL2+ literally means GPL2.0, GPL2.1, etc.
<Eickmeyer> If you include udev-rtirq, whatever is added needs to be a separate copyright stanza in debian/copyright.
<Eickmeyer> That doesn't have to be put into /COPYING.
<Eickmeyer> So, let me worry about that. :)
<OvenWerks> Yes the original author needs to be credited for those files
<OvenWerks> I haven't talked to him for a while so I can't remember if it grabs the internal audio as well on boot (I think so)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: also, you wanted to be able to set dummy channel quanity. Does that need to be different for playback/capture? or can they be the same? (one setting or two?)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: If you can make it different, that would be preferable.
<Eickmeyer> If that's too hard, separate would be fine.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: any particular limit?
<OvenWerks> 10 channels? 32? 128?
<OvenWerks> I guess 8 covers any surround standard
<Eickmeyer> 128 should be a hard limit. Is this going to be a manual input variable or are we looking at a menu?
<Eickmeyer> I'm thinking mixers, not necessarily direct output.
<Eickmeyer> Roundtripping channels.
<OvenWerks> dummy outputs go to /dev/null effectively
<OvenWerks> I'm not sure what you mean.
<OvenWerks> what audio path do you envision?
<OvenWerks> with dummy my limited imagination goes pulse->jack playback and vice vesa
<Eickmeyer> Yes, I understand that, but my usecase is setting stuff up before going live. For instance, I'd have dummy set-up 32 channels, then later on, plug via USB to a 32-channel mixer which gives access to all 32 in/outs.
<OvenWerks> Ah, that makes sense
<OvenWerks> I was going to use spinboxes
<Eickmeyer> Most people would use dummy to pre-stage.
<OvenWerks> should Istart at 1 ch or 2? everything else in here expects 2, but I think connecting pulse right to a non-existant playback_2 would just fail and not crash because it is an external program
<OvenWerks> My one channel USB mic is ok.
<Eickmeyer> I'd start at 1ch.
<OvenWerks> Interesting: both alsa and dummy can have channel count, but they both use different command line flags :)
<OvenWerks> So an alsa device can use fewer than all of it's channels.
<OvenWerks> unfortunately, I would want 1,2,3,4,9,10 :P
<OvenWerks> netone uses the same as alsa for channels.
<OvenWerks> Anyway, it looks like we can set channel numbers for everything. I notice my man page does not mention firewire backend
<Eickmeyer> Cool.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2019-06-23
<Eickmeyer> !tea,
<Eickmeyer> team
<Eickmeyer> !team
<OvenWerks> Coffee
<Eickmeyer> hehe
<Eickmeyer> I was trying something but now that I have your attention...
<Eickmeyer> New version of xfce4-settings heading toward the archives per bluesabre, builds with libcolord, so this is the version with colord itegration, therefore color correction is finally built-in to the desktop.
<OvenWerks> \o/
<OvenWerks> Is it better than DisplayCAL? or does it do something differenet?
<OvenWerks> Do they have something for the drawing tablet too?
<Eickmeyer> No, this is just for display.
<Eickmeyer> Also, unlike DisplayCAL, it doesn't actually create icc profiles without a colorimeter.
<Eickmeyer> bluesabre might have more information if he's around.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I wouldn't know what to ask, that would be best left to someone like eylul 
<Eickmeyer> Also, rather, it doesn't create icc color profiles period. We should keep DisplayCAL for colorimeter support.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm pretty well-versed in this stuff since it's used in photography.
<OvenWerks> Good
<bluesabre> Yes, it doesn't create icc profiles, but it does allow you to apply them to your displays/printers/scanners
<bluesabre> Using colord/xiccd
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: that sounds like good steps forward.
<OvenWerks> I like that xfce config runs all the time and makes sure the system boots the same as it was set when it was shut down.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: with regard to cheap USB input junk like I was talking about yesterday (the guitar in only job that has unused outputs inside) I am wondering if a stopgap solution might be to add another check box.
<OvenWerks> right now we have Bridge USB Devcies to Jack When Plugged In
<OvenWerks> I am wondering If I should add another that does the same thing but inputs only
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: my thought process is this: The purpose of adding bridging (or the thing that got us started) was USB mics where the user wanted to use internal outputs
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, are we talking a sub-checkbox that says "Bridge inputs only"?
<OvenWerks> yeah like to the right of the one there
<Eickmeyer> I'd also make it grayed-out unless its parent checkbox is checked.
<OvenWerks> good idea
<OvenWerks> I am thinking in the long run of deviding Audio setup into subtabs where one tab could be for device specific settings
<OvenWerks> it would be nice to tab jack master setting depending on backend or I need to figure out how to hide unused settings rather than disable them
<OvenWerks> But I would like to keep them saved in the config file so that when someone switched from dummy to alsa, the last used alsa setting would show.
<OvenWerks> Same even on a perdevice basis, so that device A with 2 i/o routes pulse out to 1/2 and Device B with 12/10 i/o route pulse to outputs 9/10 (spdif)
<OvenWerks> I would like to remember USB or FW devices that are no longer plugged in and their settings as well.
<OvenWerks> (we sort of do this for a USB device that is used as master)
<Eickmeyer> That all sounds great.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: this wool gathering has been good  :) Device based would be best. A device could tell which back end it expected. So rather than selecting the dummy back end you would select the dummy device and it's settings would follow.
<Eickmeyer> Yes! That's great!
<OvenWerks> This would aply to Net and Netone as well.
<Eickmeyer> Yep.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I want to add a fourth column in each tab with just a ? button or add a tool tip to each label and button. The help setup is outdated and only applies to the System tweaks tab anyway
<Eickmeyer> Good idea.
<OvenWerks> That would break the help into smaller chunks. Having the main help button only apply to the current tab would be great too.
<OvenWerks> my work on -controls is not really for 19.10... though that would be ok by me rpovided we stop at a logical place and it doesn't seem half done
<Eickmeyer> Right. Let me know whenever you feel it's ready for release.
<OvenWerks> So I will finish the chanel count, add the input only and see if head phone switching can be quick (I think I can do the alsa level change easily)
<OvenWerks> with the head phones, I think I will put a Hook in that looks for .config/autojack/headphone.sh
<OvenWerks> so that if what I do doesn't work, the user can add their own script.
<OvenWerks> Some laptops change the jack (not jakcd) pin use on phone plugin rather than change levels.
 * OvenWerks is off...
<OvenWerks> channel count is done in -controls it just needs the autojack half so it actually does something :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: another place people could help with controls (or any other US sw) is to point out places "help" could be added and suggest text for that help.
<Eickmeyer[m]> OK, good idea.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: FYI, FeatureFreeze is August 22nd.
<Eickmeyer> It would be good to do as much as possible before then and work on bugfixes mostly from then until 20.04.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: New plymouth theme on the way (we got some bad reviews, this one will likely be better received), and new grub2 theme to match (just got rid of the gray background, now black).
<Eickmeyer> And I done goofed, so 4 fail mails. :P
<Eickmeyer> Looks like it's all working. Might upload to eoan soon, idk...
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I will work on those things for controls. I should ave something new before august
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Sweet.
<OvenWerks> I have already removed all calls with shell=True so that can be a security update :)
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok, so if that's the case, should I SRU this to disco??
<OvenWerks> I am suspecting a lot fo calls to dbussend should be native python dbus messages... which would include jack_control calls too probably.
<OvenWerks> I don't think they are a valid worry, the user can not invluence the command line.
<OvenWerks> All parameters are generated by -controls
<Eickmeyer> Ok. Wouldn't mind sarnold's opinion on this (he's on the security team).
<Eickmeyer> But, generally, it's probably not a big rush then.
<OvenWerks> generally, my problem has been expecting shell commandline dealing with things like ~ and running a command without worrying about the directory the command is actually in. Most of the time just adding /usr/bin/ to the command was all I needed
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the jackd man page is out of date/inacurate and missing much information
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: upstream issue?
<OvenWerks> just type jack_control il
<OvenWerks> probably
<Eickmeyer> Most likely. Manpages are done by the upstream developer, not the packagers.
<OvenWerks> The authors for the jackd man page do not look familiar
<OvenWerks> Manpage written by Stefan Schwandter, Jack O'Quin and Alexandre Prokouâ
<OvenWerks>        dine.
<OvenWerks> except the last one
<OvenWerks> who I am pretty sure is no longer involved falktx being the only dev there pretty much
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. Should we poke him in #lad?
<OvenWerks> no
<Eickmeyer> k
<OvenWerks> if anywhere in #jack
<Eickmeyer> True.
<OvenWerks> but really not unless we have a new man page to offer
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. He might be very well aware it's out of date.
<OvenWerks> the plan is to phase out jackd1
<Eickmeyer> Yeah. We're using jackd2, so why are we concerned?
<OvenWerks> by adding anything jackd1 has into jackd2
<OvenWerks> the man page is being used for jackd2
<OvenWerks> there is no man page for jackdbus or jack_control
<OvenWerks> pactl is pretty much as bad
<Eickmeyer> Ah.
<Eickmeyer> Doucumentation is hard.
<OvenWerks> but the default maxports is not 256 for a long time now (2048)
<OvenWerks> which may be considered limiting as ardour with alsa back end can have 1024 channels... 3 ports per channel plus master (4 more)
<OvenWerks> At least 1024 channels has been tested, more may be possible :)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it seems https://www.olivevideoeditor.org/ is recommended as being much faster than kdenlive
<OvenWerks> I don't think we can include it though as it is beta at best (web page says alpha)
<Eickmeyer> This is true. In order to be in the archive, it has to be final or soon-to-be final (as Carla was at the time).
<OvenWerks> jackd (1 and 2) have been beta forever... and all qstuff beta
<OvenWerks> Looking at the jackd manpage, I think it was just lifted from jackd1. I know Paul had nothing to do with jackd2 So far as I know the original jackd2 had one dev
<OvenWerks> looks like jackd2 uses some jackd1 bits :)  other thhan the man page
<Eickmeyer> Right, but that's a sound server and not an application, so it's treated differently.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: anyway, it looks like the jack backend stuff in -controls will not work for anything else than alsa.
<Eickmeyer> So, no dummy or firewire?
 * Eickmeyer might be confused
<OvenWerks> The commands are different for each backend (different creators)
<Eickmeyer> Ah, yes, that makes sense.
<OvenWerks> Actually them may (by accident) work
<Eickmeyer> That might be why qjackctl has a completely different selection for if you select a different backend.
<OvenWerks> I just stripped all the jack_control commands into a file. And will use that to rework it.
<OvenWerks> I think that will change the order I do things. I might work on that next rather than USB input only.... Then again, that should be quick and easy
<OvenWerks> Anyway, I will try to get that fixed before august.
<Eickmeyer> Sounds good.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-17
<RAOF> Eickmeyer: There might be bad news with artyfx - it looks like a bunch of files there are GPL-2 (*not* GPL-2+) and then some files are GPL-3+, so the combination will be undistributable.
<Eickmeyer> RAOF: Ok. Thanks. :)
<RAOF> Sorry to be the one always with the copyright complaints!
<Eickmeyer[m]> RAOF: It's OK. Just means the software itself is basically illegal and the upstream should be notified.
<Eickmeyer[m]> RAOF: I filed an upstream issue: https://github.com/openAVproductions/openAV-ArtyFX/issues/44
<Eickmeyer[m]> RAOF: Interestingly enough, I do maintain ArtyFX in Fedora, albiet a much older version (I inherited it). https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/lv2-artyfx-plugins
<Eickmeyer[m]> Might not have had that copyright issue with that version.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Er... licensing issue.
<studiobot> <teward001> RAOF: i should have caught that, but let's chalk that up to being overworked and tired.  But it sounds like this software can't be distributed and basically is illegal and in major license violations
<studiobot> <teward001> Eickmeyer: if it can't be distributed then the fork you have on Git with the packaging is technically in violation - in THEORY I could potentially ask the LP admins to delete it, but...
<Eickmeyer[m]> I can delete it.
<RAOF> <studiobot "<teward001> Eickmeyer: if it can"> I don't think that's true? It's only when you're trying to distribute a binary that combines the two that the licenses come into conflict.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I revised the upstream issue accordingly since that makes more sense. Redistributing the source files themselves is not a violation.
<studiobot> <teward001> depending on how it's worded, perhaps.  But yes this makes sense.
<studiobot> <teward001> RAOF: (you can skip the studiobot bits, I'm in both places but IRCCloud is being a [CENSORED] rght now and won't load so... can only get here via the telegram bridge)
<Eickmeyer[m]> @teward001 He's on Matrix, so he simply "replied" to it, made studiobot repeat it.
<studiobot> <teward001> yeh
<studiobot> <teward001> alls good
<studiobot> <teward001> *goes to beat on his IRCCloud account with a pipe*
 * Eickmeyer[m] goes to remove artyfx from Fedora with that discovery
<Eickmeyer[m]> Turns out it's the same version, just a somewhat older commit.
 * OvenWerks thought gpl 2 was worded in such a way as to be 2+
<OvenWerks> That line would have had to be removed I guess
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It all depends on what they put in the license header. If it's missing "or later version" It's not 2+, but 2.
<OvenWerks> Yeah, I thought gpl 2 always included the "or later version" or it would not be gpl2, but I think I remember the kernel being gpl2 only as well.
<OvenWerks> I think gpl3 has to have that though
<OvenWerks> The author of that sw seems to be very busy with non-free time life these days :)
<OvenWerks> (since about two years?)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: has firefox been acting up on you lately? In the past week or so it has been having rendering trouble off and on.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I haven't noticed, I typically use Brave.
<OvenWerks> how has that experience been?
<Eickmeyer> Really good, actually. As long as you disable the binance, brave rewards, and sponsored images, it's pretty nice.
<Eickmeyer> Built-in tracking protection and adblock.
<OvenWerks> built on node so seems like a fork of chomium
<Eickmeyer> It isn't a fork of Chromium, more like a base with the Google-specific stuff removed.
<Eickmeyer> It's created by one of the creators of Firefox.
 * OvenWerks can't figure out how to add that ppa
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the instructions on this page: https://brave-browser.readthedocs.io/en/latest/installing-brave.html#linux
<OvenWerks> give me a Malformed entry 1 in list file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/... 
<Eickmeyer> That's weird. I've never had an issue.
<Eickmeyer> It's not really a PPA per that definition but a private repo.
<OvenWerks> it is the way it is displayed...
<Eickmeyer> I'd just make sure /etc/apt/soruces.list.d/brave-browser-release.list is exactly deb [arch=amd64] https://brave-browser-apt-release.s3.brave.com/ stable main
<OvenWerks> there is a / at the end of one line which seems to indicate the next word is part of the same text but there is a space in there
<Eickmeyer> There's supposed to be a space between the / and stable.
<OvenWerks> yeah I had ".com/stable"
<Eickmeyer> Yep, that's the problem.
<Eickmeyer> Best to just copy/paste those commands into the terminal. That way there's less room for error.
<OvenWerks> well I did, but like I say it was three lines worth
<Eickmeyer> Well, one-by-one.
<OvenWerks> and the space (or not) was between lines
<Eickmeyer> Each visual paragraph is a line and does not contain a CR character.
<Eickmeyer> So that separate line between stable and main isn't actually there as far as it's concerned, so the terminal will treat it as one line.
<OvenWerks> is the only way to have fast access to bookmarks by adding a whole toolbar? no single icon on the main toolbar?
<Eickmeyer> I don't really use bookmarks unless I'm opening a new tab which gives me the bookmarks bar.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: This might be useful for you: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bookmarks-menu/ffmdedmghpoipeldijkdlcckdpempkdi?hl=en-US
<Eickmeyer> Gives you a bookmarks menu.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-18
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: thanks
<OvenWerks> there is a new nsm out there... The un-non version with fltk (I think) called "New session manager"
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-dev/2020-June/037791.html
<Eickmeyer> Cool. As soon as I can I'll take a look.
<OvenWerks> it is built with meson so I will take a look too. I have been looking for a build kit for mcpdisp for a while. Having struck out with auto tools and meson already... and before trying cmake or whatever, I will look at their code to see if I can figure out what they are doing.
<OvenWerks> fltk is not standard does not do pkgconfig.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: re installing stuff.... how do I set up icon files for desktop files?
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: In what way?
 * OvenWerks is super happy. meson build  && cd build && ninja and it works
<OvenWerks> so I put a file.svg in hicolor/22x22/apps but desktop file doesn't seem to find it
<OvenWerks> I am not even sure it is 22x22 actually
<OvenWerks> ninja install installs everything and it shows up in the menu... but the icon is blank
<OvenWerks> ah, stop and start latte and it works
<OvenWerks> ok
<OvenWerks> it is a kde menu think.
<OvenWerks> (len is running it remote too :P
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: as a packager, what problems does this one give you: https://github.com/ovenwerks/mcpdisp
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: You'd have to put the svg in /hicolor/scaled/apps since that's a scaled vector graphic.
<Eickmeyer[m]> *scalable vector graphic
<OvenWerks> Ah, ok
<OvenWerks> do I also need to put links to all the other sizes or do the de know how to deal with that?
<Eickmeyer[m]> The DE can usually deal with that. Another way is to put it in /usr/share/pixmaps
<OvenWerks> yuk...
<OvenWerks> fixed
<OvenWerks> I will do one more test I guess and put a release note in the mailing lists.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ok
<Eickmeyer[m]> Sounds good.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Sorry, was knee-deep in Fedora stuff today.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: no problem, I pretty much was finished for the day
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Did it work? Putting it in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps ?
<OvenWerks> I haven't tried yet :) just woke up.
<Eickmeyer[m]> ð
<OvenWerks> I am thinking I should add a man page too.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Probably, that would save me an override for sure.
<OvenWerks> I also want to make sure the user knows that jack must be running and that this program only supports jackmidi
<OvenWerks> this will likely change in the future to add alsa (or a cross os lib) and maybe remove jack.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Can you make a dialog box that pulls that up? Also, in packaging, I could add Jack as a depends.
<Eickmeyer[m]> For instance, if Jack isn't running, popup saying "Need Jack started"
<Eickmeyer[m]> or something like that.
<OvenWerks> jack is a depend anyway :)
<OvenWerks> but yes, there should at least be a text saying please run jack first and a dialog would be even better
<OvenWerks> Ga... if jack is not running it starts one...
<OvenWerks> I need to disable that
<OvenWerks> OK, Eickmeyer[m] the icon works the man page is there... I am not sure about licencing. The top of mcpdisp says gpl2+ but COPYING does not. Also I am not sure the address (mailing address) is correct in these files
<OvenWerks> So I am not sure if copying is the licence text and the header in the .cc says use that or a later one or how that works
<OvenWerks> hmm I should push :)
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: The only difference is in the header, the COPYING file just has to be the license verbatim as from the FSF.
<Eickmeyer[m]> And, actually, the version you have is outdated. The FSF has a new address as of 15 years ago.
<OvenWerks> yeah I wondered
<Eickmeyer[m]> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.txt
<OvenWerks> I am not sure where it came from
<Eickmeyer[m]> I'd replace it with that.
<OvenWerks> ok, so the address in the .cc file is correct then
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yes
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: in the meson build file I have license : 'GPLv2' should that be 2+ or is there a better way of setting that? (or should I remove that?)
<Eickmeyer[m]> Should be "GPL-2+", I think.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Not sure how Meson does that.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I guess I am asking if any other files should have licence info in them
<OvenWerks> ok
<Eickmeyer[m]> Right now, the way your Makefile is, it's licensed GPL-2 not 2+ because it's lacking the "or later version" clause.
<OvenWerks> to be honest, much of the meson.build file was taken from nem-session-manager
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ah.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: anything else before I tag 0.1.1?
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: That's the only stuff I can think of.
<OvenWerks> here it is: https://github.com/ovenwerks/mcpdisp/releases/tag/mcpdisp-0.1.1
<OvenWerks> ls
<OvenWerks> wrong window
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: btw jackmixer is back... with python3
<OvenWerks> (gtk3 as well)
<OvenWerks> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-announce/2020-June/002821.html
<Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, I'll look at both of those soon.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Adding to my list.
<Eickmeyer[m]> And sirriffsalot is turning into a help vampire.
<OvenWerks> his is one of those cases where on site help would be much better. I am still not exactly sure what I am dealing with there. Still, glad not to be on site :)
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-19
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yep.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: For future reference, never put debian or debian/* in a .gitignore file. I actually need those in order to work with git on launchpad for packaging.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am not sure how those got in there actually
<OvenWerks> The only thing I added (that I remember) is the build/*
<OvenWerks> I will remove that though
<OvenWerks> Actually there is a lot of stuff in there that doesn't need to be
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it is fixed in git if you want to cherry pick the next commit as a bug fix...
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I really can't spend more time woring on mcpdisp right now. I have a fix I am part way through for Ardour 6.1 I need to finish as well as headphones for controls
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Ok, no worries. I think I've got everything else, but you might think about documenting all of the build deps somewhere. I'm learning as I go.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: my next work on mcpdisp will be adding a parameter to allow it to use ALSA MIDI rather than jack
<Eickmeyer> Oh, cool.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the only build deps are mentioned in the install file
<OvenWerks> libfltk-dev and libjack-jackd2-dev
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Nope. So far, it also needs fltk, jack, and cmake in addition to meson and ninja.
<Eickmeyer> Oh, I missed the part about fltk and jack, but no big deal. cmake is a good mention too.
<OvenWerks> libfltk-dev should pull that in, no?
<OvenWerks> I did not add cmake
<OvenWerks> hmm, I do have cmake installed but did not know it was required
<Eickmeyer> I'll see if fltk pulls it in, but I doubt it.
<OvenWerks> fltk is made with cmake
<Eickmeyer> Nope, it's not a dependency of fltk, even though it builds with cmake. Therefore, cmake has to be named explicitly as a build-dep.
<OvenWerks> but I don't think it is required to build an fltk app
<Eickmeyer> It might not be, but building griped about a lack of cmake.
<OvenWerks> in fact this program with a simple makefile worked fine with cmake not installed
<Eickmeyer> And FTBFS.
 * OvenWerks is not sure what that means
<Eickmeyer> Failed To Build From Source
<OvenWerks> Ah
<OvenWerks> I am wondering if I have something in the meson.build file that makes it think cmake is required
<Eickmeyer> Maybe.
<OvenWerks> none of the build log files show cmake in them at all
<OvenWerks> cmake is not required
<OvenWerks> I don't know how you come up with it as a dep
<OvenWerks> I removed cmake from my system and it still builds with no errors
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^^
<OvenWerks> I have added a note that meson (and therefore ninja) need to be installed to the install file.
<OvenWerks> It does need gcc though
<OvenWerks> Maybe if gcc is not installed, meson checks for camke as an alternative
<OvenWerks> *cmake
<OvenWerks> In general it should build with the standard ubuntu build stack
<OvenWerks> (which means I don't know what parts it uses :)
<OvenWerks> meson says cc = gcc 9.3.0 "cc (Ubuntu 9.3.0-10ubuntu2) 9.3.0"
<OvenWerks> cc ld.bfd 2.34 (linked to: x86_64-linux-gnu-ld.bfd
<OvenWerks> c++ which is the same binary as cc
<OvenWerks> (gcc 9.3.0)
<OvenWerks> That is it aside from fltk and jack
<OvenWerks> I don't think the 9.3 matters as I have built the same code from using 14.04 to now.
<OvenWerks> Actually looking at the ninja.build file it looks like the ld.bfd is not used.
<OvenWerks> rule cpp_LINKER
<OvenWerks>  command = c++ $ARGS -o $out $in $LINK_ARGS
<OvenWerks> It uses c++ for linking too.
<OvenWerks> ld may be used for the fltk test...
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Well, either way, I have a build: https://launchpad.net/mcpdisp
<Eickmeyer> It's on my ppa at the moment.
<Eickmeyer> https://launchpad.net/~eeickmeyer/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
<Eickmeyer> Built for all architectures, submitted to teward for review and upload.
<OvenWerks> don't... it crashes
<OvenWerks> *** buffer overflow detected ***: terminated
<OvenWerks> Aborted (core dumped)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ^^
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: could be my fault I installed it on focal not groovy
<OvenWerks> So it could be a version difference
<OvenWerks> jack and fltk are same version
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I do notice that the various flags in the LP build are much more than mine are.
<OvenWerks> (ie, I have no CPPFLAGS etc.)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I also find it wierd that meson says it will use "C++ linker for the host machine: c++ ld.bfd 2.34" but then the actual command line shows just straight "c++"
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, you're saying it is broken?
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I can't put it in Focal at all, except for backports, but we can't be targeting that.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Those CPPFLAGS are default Ubuntu flags, you'll notice the debian/rules file is pretty empty.
<Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Jack in Groovy is newer. I uploaded it myself.
<ericadams> Hello all. Not sure who manages the website but there is a mixed content security warning. It looks like all the images are being served from http. Not a huge issue but thought you should know.
<Eickmeyer[m]> ericadams: Canonical manages the infra, there's a ticket open.
<Eickmeyer[m]> We can't do a thing about it.
<ericadams> Ok, no worries. Just wanted to make sure you knew. Glad to hear that's the case.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-20
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am not at a place where I can test on 20.10 right now. Being broken on 20.04 is fine if it works on 20.10 (where it was made to).
<Eickmeyer[m]> Honestly, I haven't tested it yet.
<OvenWerks> I need to set those flags on my set up and see if that affects my build I guess. I can add them one at a time.
<OvenWerks> At least one person has built and is using it though (aside from me)
<OvenWerks> I guess it could be jack... but the api shouldn't have changed that much. My use of it is pretty slim.
 * OvenWerks knowledge has expanded some too though.... 
<Eickmeyer[m]> We can override the build flags if you can figure out which one is problematic.
<OvenWerks> I do have one fix I want done in Ardour, then I can try some things.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: while it would be nice to get it into G it is not top importance.
<OvenWerks> means "I will see what I can do"
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Yeah, no worries. At least we have most of the packaging done.
 * OvenWerks has spent half the day setting a stage up for Sunday.... tomorrow too. The room has been turned 90 degrees... 
<OvenWerks> At least the stage now has built in power
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oh wow.
<OvenWerks> The signals to stage have to go through isolators because there are two power entrances to the building
<OvenWerks> The grounds are not close to each other.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oh yeah. I've dealt with that. Hum central.
<OvenWerks> The FOH speaker/amps have no power transformer (class D) and if the signal is off DC wise one part of the amp works harder than the other. We lost one that way when we first installed. (warranties are great :)
<OvenWerks> we have gone a few years with isolators in line with no troubles
<OvenWerks> It just means when things get redone someone who knows what those boxen are for has to be there
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, or someone who can figure it out.
<OvenWerks> ;)
<OvenWerks> so I will be there tomorrow too... we be running mics, monitors and guitar directs under the stage
<Eickmeyer[m]> So much fun. :)
<OvenWerks> so much less stage clutter.
<OvenWerks> Got to find out how much stuff got moved to Paul's house for video feed the last few months.
<studiobot> <teward001> Alright who do i have to smack
<studiobot> <teward001> *smacks Eickmeyer*
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: booted to groovy. doing update and it says it is updating "Ardour5" (5.12 -> 6.0) does the package name change?
<OvenWerks> Is the new package actually called "Ardour6" has the .desktop file been changed?
 * OvenWerks guesses he will find out.... almost soon after 542 updates are done
 * OvenWerks needs glasses... arm64 looks too much like amd64
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: the jack not running dialog works :)
<OvenWerks> I have the real time warning? wow
<OvenWerks> ardour 6 startup shows: LADSPA: cannot load module "/usr/lib/ladspa/autotalent.so" (/usr/lib/ladspa/autotalent.so: undefined symbol: __exp_finite)
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: mcpdisp fails the same way in groovy
<OvenWerks> if I had to guess which cflag causes this I would expect it to be: -fstack-protector-strong
<OvenWerks> which goes well with: buffer overflow detected
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I don't know how much c++ you know... but I think local local variables (as in local scope) would be on the stack
<OvenWerks> It may be I need to allocate some memory for some things before it starts
<OvenWerks> reboot
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: So, Ardour's package name doesn't change, but the executable name and the desktop file do change.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Scratch that, the desktop filename did not change.
#ubuntustudio-devel 2020-06-21
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: but the menu item name does
<OvenWerks> the package name should be changed then
<OvenWerks> it should be just Ardour
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: It's synced from Debian, I have no control on this anymore.
<OvenWerks> no problem... we will wait for them to figure it out :)
<Eickmeyer[m]> I don't know why they put Ardour6 as the menu item, but it doesn't affect the functionality of the application.
<OvenWerks> stage is set up. wiring works. carpet is down.
 * OvenWerks is tired
<Eickmeyer[m]> Nice. I don't blame you.
<OvenWerks> I think we need some curtains at the back of the stage
<OvenWerks> or some other sound absorbent
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: -O2 is the cause. Some optimization is doing it.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: tried -O1 also failed. tried -O0 works
<OvenWerks> I don't know if merely specing -O0 in the meson build will override or not.
<OvenWerks> when I run meson build it says: Consider using the built-in optimization level instead of using "-O0"
<OvenWerks> anyway, that does build and run.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I have fixed the above warning (Consider using the built-in). I also found that my --version had the wrong program name.
<OvenWerks> I also got a pr to add french to the desktop file.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: what file name should I use for a file listing authors? (now that there is more than just me)
<OvenWerks> Added AUTHORS file.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: I think I will wait for a week or so and release 0.1.2. This will give other people time to find bugs. Also there is LAD release day on the 15th of each month to keep projects from looking stale because there have been no new releases for two years
<OvenWerks> if that is soon enough for G release... let me know if you need a release sooner for FF or something.
<OvenWerks> 0.1.2 should run without any override in packaging.
<OvenWerks> also I am wondering if I should have a sub section in AUTHORS for tranlators?
<OvenWerks> actually I already did
<Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: You were up way later working on that than I was expecting. ð
 * OvenWerks was keeping his wife company
<Eickmeyer[m]> I was already in bed at the time. :D
<OvenWerks> I have actually had a few nice coments on the LAU mail list
<Eickmeyer[m]> Oh good!
<OvenWerks> Someone added french to the desktop file
<Eickmeyer[m]> My Behringer X-Touch Mini works in MC mode, so I might test it with that.
 * Eickmeyer[m] would love a full-size X-Touch or even an X-Touch compact
<OvenWerks> I use it with this: http://www.ovenwerks.net/hardware/3dollarcontrolsurface.html
<OvenWerks> But aparently it is handy with single channel surfaces too
<Eickmeyer[m]> I guess after 26 years I'm at home behind something resembling a mixing console.
<OvenWerks> The next app... after -controls and Ardour is midikb. It will get converted to ALSA midi only so it can run system side.
<OvenWerks> right now it has to have permisions changed to work. Jack means it has to run as user.
<Eickmeyer[m]> Yikes.
<OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: if you want to try a build on mcpdisp with current git, we can see if my fix works
 * Eickmeyer[m] is opposed to running anything as root if it can be avoided
<OvenWerks> If it all seems to work I can do release.
<Eickmeyer[m]> I'll have to check later.
<OvenWerks> well, the keyboard to midi part needs to run as root, but the midi access should be as user
<OvenWerks> I am thinking the midimap/layout can get sent to the system side by MIDI sysex
<OvenWerks> it would be possible to use the numeric keypad as a midi control and the rest of the keyboard normally or use one keyboard for computer and another as MIDI controller
 * OvenWerks has to get ready to go out
 * Eickmeyer[m] is on his way out too
