#edubuntu 2006-01-09
<Lord_Athur> jajaj
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> then mhz do i past here the error???????????????????
<mhz> Lord_Athur: no idea how to help you because the only times I have had problems with initrd files is when kernel has got errors
<mhz> Lord_Athur: nope
<Lord_Athur> when I pasted it on ubuntu, someone baned me
<mhz> exactly
<Lord_Athur> :D
<Lord_Athur> hehehe
<mhz> there is a 'pastebin' site
<Lord_Athur> yes
<mhz> I dont recall any now
<lucasvo> anyone know what I can do?
<Lord_Athur> I used it, but from this moment nobody tries to help me
<mhz> but if you use that and paste here only the url of your paste.. that's ok
<mhz> noone can ban you for that
<lucasvo> I can't see anything strange on tty04
<Lord_Athur> lucasvo, i cannot see anything strange there
<mhz> lucasvo: I'd love to but i have not installed a thing in months
<lucasvo> is it possible that loading a single module takes more than 1h?
<mhz> nope
<mhz> IMHO, thoug
<lucasvo> mhz: how can I manually load a module?
<lucasvo> insmod isofs: file not ofund
<lucasvo> ah strange, isofs already seems to be loaded
<jouni__m> lucasvo modprobe isofs I guess
<mhz> lucasvo: modules are loaded by using 'modprobe the_module'
<lucasvo> yeah
<lucasvo> so it is only the installer
<lucasvo> which crashes
<lucasvo> :(
<mhz> lucasvo: did you try 'hitting the box'  with love?
<mhz> (we call that 'hitting' "el golpe tecnico" in Chile)
<mhz> :D
<Lord_Athur> jajaj
<Lord_Athur> iok
<mhz> lucasvo: I had similar trouble with a damaged CD 
<mhz> ofcourse, I never new it was damaged until then
<mhz> :(
<Lord_Athur> mhz, is there is a edubuntu man, who is the ubuntu & kubuntu sr?
<Lord_Athur> lo dije mal
<Lord_Athur> xD
<lucasvo> hm, is there any way, how to do a manual installation?
<Lord_Athur> me va psimo con el ingls
<mhz> lucasvo: what do you have in mind?
<lucasvo> mhz: not using debconf
<lucasvo> or just skip the step which comes after modprobe isofs
<jouni__m> lucasvo I usually do expert or server install and then install ubuntu-desktop in your case edubuntu-desktop
<mhz> lucasvo: oh, like 'installing from scratch'?
<lucasvo> jouni__m: I want a server install
<lucasvo> jouni__m: but can I do that without debconf?
<mhz> lucasvo: server is safer than any mode AFAIK
<lucasvo> I am using server install
<mhz> oh
<mhz> flight 2 or breezy?
<lucasvo> I just wan't an IPtables firewall :D
<lucasvo> breezy
<mhz> but you can set IpTables from any machine
<lucasvo> hm?
<jouni__m> ubuntu server install is minimal install without gnome or KDE don't know what edubuntu has
<lucasvo> jouni__m: yeah, but still, it crashes after loading the isofs
<lucasvo> hm, let's try what happens, when I load isofs before
<jouni__m> lucasvo oh no. do you have (k)ubuntu cd?
<lucasvo> jouni__m: the problem is, I have no cd drive
<lucasvo> waaaa
<lucasvo> now it crashes, when it loads ide-cd, at 92%
<lucasvo> silly
<lucasvo> it crashes at 92% all the time, doesn't depend on which module I load
<lucasvo> ogra: can you help me with pxe install?
<ogra> just use your ltsp server ;) 
<ogra> and provide the installer image instead of the normal ltsp images
<lucasvo> ogra: and replace wich files with what?
<ogra> the files in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp with the ones from the url i gave you for the netboot installer
<lucasvo> ogra: ok thanks
<lucasvo> ogra: would it boot wih ltsp?
<ogra> why shouldnt it
<ogra> but since you wanted to install, i'd use the install image
<lucasvo> hm, there is a LAN option, but it doesn't seem to be pxe
<Lord_Athur> re
<mhz> ogra_ibook: what do you think about this simplicity for CSS rc1 ? http://ubuntu-cl.org/Wiki/Inicio
<mhz> (is it too simple?)
<kjcole> Hi mhz, (and others)... Are we meeting in 10 hours?  Or is this a week we're off?
<kjcole> Oops.  Never mind.  I found it. ("No" for those of you who might also be wondering.  Next meeting on Jan 11.)
<crimsun> right, I was pointing to fridge.u.c as listing the next meeting as 8 days away before this coffee shop's wifi connectivity broke. Again.
<mhz> kjcole: crimsun:  Topic for #ubuntu-meeting is: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ |  5 Jan 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 10 Jan 15:00 UTC: Community Council | 11 Jan 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<kjcole> mhz, So I'm illiterate.  What else is new? ;-)  Thanks.  (I found it in the wiki as well.)
<mhz> lol
<mhz> kjcole: how's the doc going (me still can't contribute to it)
<mhz> I hope you wont tell me "you did not want to contribute, mhz"
<mhz> :D
<kjcole> mhz, I was just thinking about mentioning that. 
<kjcole> mhz, Honestly, I'
<Lord_Athur> hi
<mhz> kjcole: heheh
<kjcole> mhz, Honestly, I'm not certain how to work this as a book:  Although Jeff and I keep saying we welcome contributors, there's also a sense from both of us that the face-to-face meetings can't be beat.  Since the original doc is around 150 printed pages, we're treating it like co-authors still.
<kjcole> mhz, we're hoping to pass through it at least once as a two-some, and then, as I understand it, open up the contributing process a bit more.
<kjcole> mhz, however, lucasvo has made a bzr branch off of the main branch, and is editing as well.
<mhz> kjcole: so can we contribute now?
<Lord_Athur> hi!!!
<kjcole> mhz, I'm becoming slowly more comfortable with bzr, but am still a bit nervous working with it, and am not certain how to handle conflicts in merges.
<mhz> I remember last thing you told me about not being ready to do so (BZR issues)
<kjcole> Hi, Lord_Athur
<mhz> Lord_Athur: hi, what's the problem?
<Lord_Athur> :D hi kjcole 
<kjcole> mhz, still some bzr problems.
<Lord_Athur> I need to mount a squashfs file
<Lord_Athur> ogra game information about the squashfs-tools package
<mhz> Lord_Athur: so? is that why you needed us to say 'hi' so urgently ? 
<Lord_Athur> :D
<mhz> kjcole: what are your current problems?
<Lord_Athur> it was only to see who is avalible to talk :D
<kjcole> mhz, but mostly our understanding of bzr, I think.
<kjcole> mhz, it's damned slow about downloading a branch for one thing (and not very informative when it does).  It looks like it hangs, but really it's still doing a download.
<mhz> ohhh
<kjcole> mhz, the main problem in my experiments is that when you have two documents that conflict, it tries to do something intelligent, but I don't know the best way to interpret what it returns.
<mhz> kjcole: I only tested BZR once, when I tried to start contributing to your doc efforts
<mhz> kjcole: lol!
<mhz> kjcole: and did you feel the same with SVN?
<kjcole> mhz, For example, if you have a file named "text" and you edit it in two different branches, then merge, it produces a "text" file with both changes and some markers indicating that the changes overlap.  In addition it creates three other "text.*" files.
<mhz> kjcole: hmmm, that sounds weired to me too
<kjcole> mhz, never used a RCS before.  So I don't know anything about cvs, svn or the original bazaar.  I'm brand new to this.
<mhz> kjcole: and of course, i guess you have talked to ogra about it
<mhz> kjcole: i get your feelings
<kjcole> mhz, I've spoken with him somewhat, but he's a bit overworked I think. ;-)
* mhz been there too
<mhz> he's indeed
<mhz> he's Mr. Edubuntu
<mhz> kjcole: we 're just the ones about to die, saluting :)
<kjcole> mhz, Since both you and lucasvo continue expressing a lot of interest in editing, I'm wondering if a small IRC meeting between you, me, jelkner and lucasvo can be arranged, so that we're all making decisions together.
<mhz> or, we could use a Moin wiki to edit and it automatically keeps a CVS in the back-end
<mhz> :)
<mhz> so we can alwasy revert changes
<mhz> and edit what we all are doing
<mhz> :)
<mhz> and even create a huge mess
<mhz> but I am for taking advantage of it over messing it up
<mhz> so dont worry
<mhz> kjcole: I know Moin can generate XML
<kjcole> mhz, you and moin remind me about the way some folks feel about vi versus emacs. ;-)  Fanatical.  
<mhz> easily and cleanly
<mhz> kjcole: of course, that's the idea :)
<mhz> but I can prove my point, so that's one big difference in my favour :D, kjcole 
<kjcole> mhz, Personally, I don't care which way we go.  However, as far as I know, jelkner's the only one of us who has a book in print.  So, I've been quite willing to follow his lead on this.
<mhz> of course, I understand
<mhz> but could you gimme the pleasure to give it just one try to show him and you why I insist on this?
<mhz> Could you provide me with just a chapter
<mhz> my only concern would be I have no idea what to do with an xml file when I get it ;)
<kjcole> mhz, I do strongly want to lean towards bzr, over cvs, since there's a lot of energy from Ubuntu in that direction.  However, wiki markup, versus other types of markup, I don't have strong feelings about.
<mhz> good point
<mhz> I do agree DockBook is the best markup for textas
<mhz> -s
<mhz> -as
<mhz> but if we only needed Headings and bolds and italics and Codelistings, then Moin is my #1 candidate
<mhz> but again, I have no clue about XML so I can't say much
<kjcole> mhz, The standard is Docbook (XML), you want moin (wiki), jelkner wants lore (twisted HTML), and I don't really care, as long as we settle on one.  Since Jeff and I have been meeting weekly, lore became the winner.
<mhz> yup
<mhz> so, our only problem is RCS ?
<mhz> we solve that and we are ready to go?
<mhz> go = rock
<kjcole> I don't know Docbook, but am learning a little about XML.  I do know wiki, and HTML.  Lore was pretty simple to learn (I thought).  Not much to it.
<mhz> do you edit XML with a front-end GUI or code?
<kjcole> mhz, I don't know: Assuming the RCS is fine, if we are all choosing different markups, then it is still a problem: Either we convince you to go with lore, or you convince jelkner to go with moin, or all three of us learn Docbook.
<mhz> LOL
<kjcole> mhz, lore is really HTML, not XML.  My small experiments in XML have been raw coding, but I did find an editor which tries to help a little:
<mhz> kjcole: I can't insist on Moin if I am ignorant on XML, because in the end we gotta export Moin 2 XML (which people who masters XML do very easily).
<kjcole> conglomerate is the name of the editor.
<mhz> kjcole: ok, but today, on daily basis, when you sit and edit the edubuntu cookbook, do you use a window with buttons for bold, italics, headings, etc? or open Emacs and start editing raw code?
<kjcole> mhz, conglomerate doesn't eliminate the need to know XML but it attempts to highlight things correctly and show you where problems occur with validating.
<kjcole> mhz, day-to-day, it's emacs.  (jelkner likes vi, I like emacs, but it's still raw for both of us.)
<mhz> hmm
<mhz> so it's not like you have a window where you select 'heading' and immediately inserts a H2
<kjcole> mhz, I find it fairly easy to remember <i>italicize this</i> and <b>boldface this</b> and <u>underline this</u>.  Not a lot of markup to learn.
<mhz> hehe
<mhz> it was an example
<mhz> some stuff is very simple, indeed
<mhz> IIRC there was a XML GUI book editor...
* mhz will tell you in a bit
<kjcole> mhz, nope.  And I find when editing, if I have to take my hands off the keyboard to play with the mouse, it slows me down.  And if there's a keyboard shortcut for <h2> it doesn't help me that much.
<crimsun> if anyone's based in the Baltimore/D.C. area, I'll be passing through on the 22nd/23rd of this month if you want to sign keys.
<kjcole> mhz, however, with XML in emacs, if you add the right "plugin" or "emacs mode", it almost does what you want:  Something like Control-C, C and then part of a tag will add both the starting and ending tags, and then sometimes offer possible tags to add between.
<kjcole> crimsun, I'm in Brain-Washington, DC but without wheels.
<kjcole> crimsun, jelkner is also in this area.
<crimsun> kjcole: ok
<kjcole> crimsun, so are you passing through both Washington and Baltimore?
<crimsun> kjcole: yes, but I'll be in Baltimore primarily
<mhz> kjcole: sorry, it was Lyx for LaTex
<mhz> and the other was kxmleditor (if you use KDE)
<kjcole> mhz, I've fooled with LyX too.  (I know only a very tiny part of raw LaTeX. So I use LyX when I want to play with that.)
* mhz apt-getting conglomerate to give it a try
<mhz> (just in case it's KISS enough for me)
<kjcole> mhz, but I don't generally need LaTeX at all, so I haven't played with LyX very much.
<mhz> yup, hence I said 'sorry'
<kjcole> conglomerate is still a little buggy and slow, but it appears to be functional.
<kjcole> mhz, slow on large documents at least.  It might behave better on smaller stuff.
* mhz slaps himself hard because he should have learnt emacs long time ago but he's been lazy to play sit and play with it
<kjcole> crimsun, well, if your schedule puts you in DC during dinner time, we could probably work something out. Or, since the 23rd is a Sunday, perhaps lunch.
<crimsun> hmm, 22nd?
<kjcole> mhz, I feel the same way about vi.  Apparently, vi is supposed to have a nice outline plugin, but since I don't know vi, I haven't worked with it either.
<kjcole> crimsun, right.  My typo.
<mhz> kjcole: I'd prefer Emacs over VI, but thx
<crimsun> right, sounds good, will have more concrete plans in a bit.
<kjcole> crimsun, ever had Ethiopean cuisine? ;-)
<crimsun> nope :-)
<mhz> kjcole: any url I can get one of your chapters from?
<kjcole> crimsun, then, if you're a moderately adventurous eater, that's what we'll try to do (schedule permitting, of course).
<crimsun> kjcole: sounds good
<kjcole> mhz, do you have bzr?  if so, "bzr branch http://pchb1f.gallaudet.edu/~kjcole/Edubuntu/Cookbook" and then just wait a while.
<kjcole> (It will create a subdirectory named Cookbook, and populate it with all of the current files.)
<mhz> kjcole: okis, i am on it
<kjcole> mhz, the behavior we saw recently when doing this between my machine and flint's machine in Vermont was that it would quickly reach revision 5, then look completely dead for about 5-7 minutes, and then continue.
<kjcole> mhz, the bzr download would stop a second time, somewhere around revision 11, and then continue with the rest of the revisions very quickly.
<mhz> okis
<mhz> I wont desperate
<mhz> [=========                                       ]  fetch revision  5/28 0:02:04
* mhz BRB
<kjcole> mhz, currently at 27 revisions because we commit fairly often (and your branch becomes 28).
<kjcole> mhz, I gotta run.  Adios!
<tinsleyc> Jerome, are you here?
<tinsleyc> How's mhz tonight?
<tinsleyc> Mauricio???
<tinsleyc> Must be late...
<tinsleyc> Another time.
<mhz> re
<pc22> hey writer 
<pc22> hey Seveas 
<pc22> hey alkl
<jsgotangco> mmm??
<writer> hey pc22
<pc22> hey ogra 
<pc22> seen yagisan?
<bgrah> hello together , i am in a school and i am changing my woody-servers into sarge , later i will use LTSP  - is there a version in edubuntu that works ? -- please give any feedback
<apokryphos> bgrah: yes, http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=ltsp&searchon=names&subword=1&version=breezy&release=all
<highvoltage> hi
<highvoltage> edubuntu meeting today?
<lucasvo> highvoltage: I can't see anything in the calendar
<highvoltage> probably not then
<writer> IRC channel #ubuntu-meeting Agenda: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki  11.01. 16-17UTC
<spacey_ki> highvoltage, because of the holidays IIRC
<highvoltage> ok
<tinsleyc> Good Morning Jerome
<tinsleyc> What is the status of the Edubuntu cookbook and can I help in any way.  I noticed that in checking the wiki, it does not even seem to be on the list.
<tinsleyc> And the tuxlab cookbook isn't that relevant since it was based on the RH implementation of LTSP.
<highvoltage> hi tinsleyc 
<highvoltage> tinsleyc: the tuXlab cookbook is being re-written with Edubuntu 6.04 in mind
<highvoltage> tinsleyc: i'm currently re-writing a big part of the technical and software parts, I will put up copies on the wiki ~ at the end of this month
<tinsleyc> let me know if there is anything I can do to help.
<spacey_ki> where is that bootchart suppose to end up again?
<spacey_ki>  /var/log/bootchart?
<spacey_ki> GRMBl
<highvoltage> tinsleyc: ok, thanks. are you on edubuntu-devel mailint list?
<highvoltage> tinsleyc: i'll post about it there when the time comes
<tinsleyc> I am going to have to double check on if I am on the devel list.  I was at one time and then the other day, I did recieve a couple of messages from the list so I am not sure.
* ogra wonders why nobody reads the topic
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> /topic :)
<highvoltage> ogra: happy new year to you
<Petaris> Hello highvoltage
<ogra> same to you :)
<highvoltage> hi Petaris 
<Petaris> Hi ogra
<ogra> hey Petaris 
<highvoltage> ogra: i installed edubuntu flight 2, and i have a bit of the same problem as Edward has (posted to the list)
<highvoltage> something i can type at cd boot time to use local files only?
<ogra> just go back, that will drop you to a menu
<ogra> there select the next task
<highvoltage> yes, that's what i did.
<highvoltage> but it doesn't build the multi-seat system, because it insists on getting it on-line
<ogra> i currently have no working email , could you answer edward ? 
<ogra> oh, forget about multiseat
<ogra> sip this one
<ogra> *skip
<highvoltage> you need connectivity for multiseat?
<ogra> no idea
<highvoltage> is multiseat ltsp or the 441 kind of thing?
<ogra> i'm not aware that anybody ever used or tested multiseat since warty
<ogra> its similar to 441
<highvoltage> aaah, ok. sorry, i confused it with ltsp.
<ogra> but as i said, nobody has the HW to test it, and it will surely get dropped with multiseat inclusion in X
<highvoltage> i will reply to edwards post then.
<highvoltage> i didn't know it's going to be included in X. that's great.
<highvoltage> you have no idea how much it sux not having an internet connection :(
<ogra> i have
<ogra> mine dropps as well from time to time ..
<highvoltage> need to go now, bbl.
<Petaris> later highvoltage
<spacey_ki> ogra, :)
<spacey_ki> got dapper thin client chroot now
<spacey_ki> but ldm doesn't want to log in
<spacey_ki> i don't think its dapper related, because before the upgrade the same problem occured
<spacey_ki> debug1: read_passphrase: can't open /dev/tty: No such device or address^M
<spacey_ki> debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,password^M
<spacey_ki> debug1: No more authentication methods to try.^M
<spacey_ki> does that make sense?
<mhz> spacey_ki: on the server, try 'ltsp-update-sshkeys'
<mhz> and try again from the client
<spacey_ki> mhz, already did that
<mhz> oh
<spacey_ki> before it stopped at host authentication failed or something
<mhz> how many times?
<spacey_ki> uh once?
<mhz> I tried three times until it worked (but under breezy)
<spacey_ki> i'll check again tomorrow
<spacey_ki> first some other work to do
<spacey_ki> have to leave here now
<spacey_ki> head home
<mhz> bytes
<spacey_ki> ogra, if you read it, feel free to reply, i'm still logged in as herman_ 
<spacey_ki> bbl
<ogra> herman_, hmm, works here
<jingl3> Hi folks, I've installed Edubuntu but having problems logging in to a thin client. Can anyone help?
<ogra> jingl3, you followed the install notes from the channel topic ? 
<jingl3> User can login on server, but thin client login simply returns another login 
<ogra> did you change the ip or name of the system post install ? 
<jingl3> Yes, I've been through all the steps. Needed to set the tftpd-hpa to work in daemon mode.
<ogra> huh ? 
<ogra> why ? 
<ogra> its configured by default in edubuntu
<ogra> the installer does it, else you installation failed
<jingl3> dunno why tftpd-hpa needed to be changed. daemon mode was set to NO.
<ogra> thats right
<ogra> it should, since it gets started by inetd on demand
<jingl3> I needed to change /etc/defaults/tftpd-hpa to  RUN_DAEMON="yes"
<jingl3>  to get the thin client to boot.
<ogra> nope
<ogra> you should have looked why inetd isnt working
<ogra> is sshd running ? 
<ogra> thats the core part of edubuntu ltsp
<jingl3> sshd is running
<jingl3> xinetd is running
<ogra> xinetd ????
<ogra> what did you do with your system ? 
<ogra> there is no xinetd installed in edubuntu ...
<jingl3> OK - I reset /etc/default/tftpd-hpa so RUN_DAEMON="no"
<ogra> how doesxinetd get on your system ? 
<jingl3> Apart from the Edubuntu install, there weren't any other steps.
<ogra> we never ever used xinetd anywhere in edubuntu or ubuntu ... are you sure its *x*inetd ?
<jingl3> Here's what inetd says about itself:
<jingl3> #/etc/init.d/inetd has been diverted by the xinetd package.
<jingl3> # The inetd service is provided by xinetd, which means inetd
<jingl3> # doesn't need to be run.
<ogra> strange 
<ogra> that shouldnt be there 
<jingl3> maybe it came with another package - let's see...
<ogra> netkit-inetd is the default inetd and the one that a dependency of ltsp-server
<jingl3> inetd got shafted on my machine on 8 December. Can't find another package installed on same date.
<jingl3> netkit-inetd is still installed, I'll try reinstalling it.
<ogra> remove xinetd
<jingl3> OK
<jingl3> inetd started
<jingl3> now trying to reboot thin client...
<ogra> fine
<jingl3> Rebooting...
<jingl3> Failure initialising /etc/network/ifstate... but login appears
<ogra> the errors are normal... breezy didnt see the cosmetical cleanup 
<jingl3> Tried logging in, but the login screen just reappears again
<ogra> ok
<ogra> run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys on the server
<ogra> then tr again
<jingl3> Ah! That looks better!
<ogra> :)
<jingl3> Anything I can add to the wiki about this?
<ogra> normally the right inetd should be installed, the step with ltsp-update-sshkeys should be there already ...
<ogra> if ot, add it :)
<ogra> *not
<jingl3> OK. Many thanks for your help!
<ogra> :)
<ogra> youre welcome
<jingl3> Moving data over from Fedora LTSP now...
<pc22> ogra, youve seen yagisan?
<ogra> not recently, no
<mhz> ogra_ibook: I read -motu discussion... I understand your points and support them. It's about the way we do things not what we do.
<ogra_ibook> yup
<mhz> and I have been notifed Lucas has added this topic to next CC meeting, good.
<ogra_ibook> nope
<ogra_ibook> thats not for the CC meeting
<ogra_ibook> that should be in a motu meeting
<zakame> which is when? :)
<ogra_ibook> make a date, ask the guys 
<mhz> ogra_ibook: ooooo
<ogra_ibook> announce it to the ML
<mhz> is Motu meeting before CC ?
<mhz> if so, it would be better then
<mhz> and in case no concensus , then move it to CC
<ogra_ibook> i dont see it on the agenda
<ogra_ibook> and this topic has really nothing to do with the CC
<ogra_ibook> just make a motu meeting, add it to the agenda, discuss it amd make a vote ... its no magic ...
<mhz> hehehehe
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> well, for what it is worth, I vote for your 'way' :D
<ogra_ibook> lets see what comes out ...
<ogra_ibook> i will go with the majority ... even if it dfecides against me ...
<mhz> hnha
<mhz> we'll give lots of loving to Mr.Edubuntu!
<ogra_ibook> heh
<ogra_ibook> i'm not doing much in MOTU anymore, so i'm not the guy to make decisions for them, i can just tell my opinion
<Lord_Athur> hi
<raghu> Hello
<Lord_Athur> hi raghu 
<raghu> Hi Lord_Athur
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Burgwork> ogra, what are the current plans for mediawiki?
<ogra> none, its in universe
<ogra> there is no chance to provide security fixes for it for 5 years
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Burgwork> ogra, upstream is pretty good about security stuff
<ogra> but they only do new releases
<ogra> there is no backporting of the fixes to older versions
<ogra> which would mean pitti or me had to do it
<Burgwork> really? they just released 1.4.12, which is a security release of the current breezy version
<ogra> oh, thats new
<Burgwork> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Download'
<juliux> ogra, at the begining of the next week i will have my three thinclients
* mhz has just installed Trac ... nice work!
<Burgwork> scroll down the legacy releases
<mhz> It just works
<ogra> theydidnt do that when i packaged it for breezy
<juliux> ogra, so i can start hardcore testing
<ogra> yay
<ogra> hopefully the installer will be in shape then ;)
<juliux> i only need to buy a vga and ps2 switch
<juliux> because i only have on tft
<Lord_Athur> hi
<Lord_Athur> hi
#edubuntu 2006-01-10
<divansantana> Hello I was wondering if anyone can tell me a bit about the differences of Nomachines nx technology-freenx vs LTSP,Linux terminal server project
<divansantana> I would like to setup a terminal server for a company and am trying to pic a technology...
<Burgwork> freenx has some legal issues from what I understand
<Burgwork> but it is fast
<Burgwork> beyond that, no idea
<spacey_ki> divansantana, LTSP is nice for the local network
<spacey_ki> if you use thin clients
<spacey_ki> if you just want to work on the terminal server remotely you can use freenx
<spacey_ki> we use both
<spacey_ki> you can combine them perfectly
<divansantana> howso?
<spacey_ki> LTSP works with thinclients
<spacey_ki> so the network has thinclients
<divansantana> I think freenx is GPL? Just not sure if it is suitable for 500 clients acting as terminal server!
<spacey_ki> but if i want to work on the terminal server on my workstation i connect with FreeNX
<divansantana> is LTSP project easy to setup??
<spacey_ki> never tried 500 clients
<spacey_ki> it mostly depends on the server :)
<spacey_ki> you probably need several machines or really fancy hardware for 500
<divansantana> freenx or LTSP? with Fancy hardware that is?
<spacey_ki> both
<spacey_ki> because all programs are running on the terminal server
<spacey_ki> 500 clients is quite a lot
<divansantana> Sorry but why both??
<spacey_ki> divansantana, oh you can pick just one
<spacey_ki> LTSP is for thinclients
<spacey_ki> FreeNX is for remote desktop
<spacey_ki> since it have a bit different use we use both
<divansantana> ok I think I finally clicked :)
<divansantana> Thanks alot for your help!
<spacey_ki> np
<spacey_ki> gl
<divansantana> Thanks!Ciao
<mhz> ogra_ibook: F3 is out?
<ogra_ibook> f3 ??
<mhz> flight 3?
<ogra_ibook> naah
<ogra_ibook> thats still some weeks to go ..
<mhz> ogra_ibook: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight3
<ogra_ibook> the post reboot installer part was just dropped completely, it'll take a while to sort all missing pieces
<ogra_ibook> see the top 
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> sorry 4 my s2pidity :D
* mhz daughter to bed
<mhz> :)
<tinsleyc> Anybody Home?
<lucasvo> does anybody know how I have to configure my iptables that it doesn't block nfs/tftp?
* mhz goes to bed now
<Burgundavia> lucasvo, inbound or outbound?
<mhz> lucasvo: ping
<mhz> lucasvo: jelkner is trying to contact you but he has not your email address
<mhz> lucasvo: I pasted the info in PM, sorry but I am almost in the envelope
<mhz> bye all
<mhz> Burgundavia: sorry, but how do you manage to work that much in the wiki?
<mhz> Burgundavia: great work, thx
<fischle55> hi there
<pc22>  what other plugins for avi files?
<jsgotangco> dude you're in the wrong channel
<juliux> http://www.wyse.de/product/winterm/archive/3360se.html what do you think about this thinclient?
<spacey_ki> it has windows CE on it ;x
<juliux> spacey_ki, but this is no problem
<juliux> spacey_ki, i get on free to play with it
<spacey_ki> :)
<juliux> because the 3 evo t20 thin clients dont work because i have no ac adapter for it
<spacey_ki> juliux, how are those thinclients priced?
<juliux> spacey_ki, no idea
<juliux> spacey_ki, check ebay
<spacey_ki> :p
<juliux> the three evo t20 cost 87 incl shipit
<spacey_ki> k
<juliux> the ws3360se i get from a friend
<juliux> at first only for playing with it
<tinsleyc> Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening...
<tinsleyc> edubuntu questions this morning
<tinsleyc> dhcp is not working correctly. everytime I boot up the system and the diskless client, the ip address given the client by the edubuntu server seems to be being decremented by about 5 addresses.  I have heard of people running out of ip addresses for this reason.
<tinsleyc> repeating this for jinty who just joined.
<tinsleyc> dhcp is not working correctly. everytime I boot up the system and the diskless client, the ip address given the client by the edubuntu server seems to be being decremented by about 5 addresses.  I have heard of people running out of ip addresses for this reason.
<blue-frog> tinsleyc, no release time in dhcp.conf
<tinsleyc> 2nd question.  How do you set the default resolution for the not pretty login screen being served up by LTSP; its too high and I am afraid it is going to be a problem for me tonight in a demo I am doing for a child care facility.
<tinsleyc> Interesting though, even without the release time, that it is being decremented by 5 and not one.
<blue-frog> sry don't know
<blue-frog> ah
<blue-frog> sry then not much help from then 
<tinsleyc> dhcp is not a major issue as I am not going run out of it anytime soon and I know enough about dhcp workings to be more than dangerous, darn right distructive!
<tinsleyc> The login screen resolution is a major concern for me though and I will need to figure that one before I go.
<tinsleyc> tonight.
<blue-frog> stick around u should have an answer from ogra sometime
<tinsleyc> One time I did notice that it came up in a lower resolution but then reverted back to 1400X whatever.
<tinsleyc> All well within the capabilities of the monitors in my lab environment but won't be at the demo site.
<tinsleyc> Help :=))))
<spacey_ki> i think the ip lease stuff is mentioned a lot on the maillinglist
<spacey_ki> probably can find your answer in the archive
<lucasvo> anyone know how I can install the VT1612A sound driver? http://epialinux.org/files/epia_howto/ar01s05.html < is some page, but only for redhat 2.4
#edubuntu 2006-01-11
<ubuntu_> hello
<Burgundavia> hello
* arkan0x is away: ~~...
<Aaron|Feldman> hi all
<Aaron|Feldman> just installed edubuntu
<juliux> can some on add here please the german channel? http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunity#head-84771059e4abfb69c7591fb5ed62c8a2c3ce61c6
<Burgundavia> juliux, can do
<Burgundavia> juliux, how do you say "If you speak German", in German?
<juliux> Burgundavia, Wenn Sie deutsch sprechen
<juliux> Burgundavia, thanks
<juliux> Burgundavia, an what i have to do to have write access to the wiki?
<juliux> Burgundavia, an the channel is edubuntu-de
<juliux> ogra, the compay thinclient runs
<ogra> great :)
<juliux> and i think i get 2 more ac adapters
<ogra> where did you find them ?
<juliux> a friend of me has 26 wyse thinclients 
<juliux> and the wyse thinclients have the same ac adapter
<ogra> cool
<juliux> so i search for a wyse ac adapter
<ogra> grumble ... gcompris still has a versioned python2.3 dependency in debian ...
<juliux> grummel the start up on the thinclient is very slow
<ogra> yay for manual merging of 50MB source for trivial changes 
<juliux> what can i do if i have no x running on the client?
<juliux> and i cann t log in
<juliux> shit
<ogra> set a root password in the chroot :)
<ogra> i guess you have a trident card in this client
<juliux> an how?
<juliux> hm good question
<juliux> i dont knwo
<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
<juliux> thanks
<juliux> it is a cyrix corporation 55300 video
<ogra> hum
<juliux> ah depth 24 is not supportet
<ogra> never heard about that 
<ogra> switch it manually and try to start the ltsp-client initscript again
<ogra> (switch in xorg.conf i mean)
<juliux> cann t i edit the xorg.conf on the client
<juliux> and than startx?
<ogra> you can
<ogra> nope
<juliux> the driver ist cyrix
<ogra> run the initscript
<ogra> not startx
<ogra> if you run startx, xorg tries to write an xauth file in /root which is mounted ro
<juliux> ah ok
<ogra> the ltsp-client initscript uses /tmp for the auth stuff ...
<juliux> ok
<juliux> can i configure it on the server that every client should start with a depth of 16 and not with 24?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> sadly not
<juliux> so i have to do it by every boot manual
<ogra> xorgs setting for debconf prevent that
<ogra> i'm still discussing with daniels to add an environment variable or something to override that
<juliux> ok
<ogra> does X start ?
<juliux> no
<ogra> any errors in the logfile ` 
<ogra> ?
<juliux> yes that the time stamp of many files is in the future
<juliux> and that /ect/nbd-client does not exist
<ogra> thats not preventing X from starting
<juliux> at the moment i reboot
<ogra> you have nbd client messages in the X logfie ??
<juliux> can i see the logfiles on the server?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> and you shouldnt reboot
<juliux> ok i power off and boot again
<ogra> you should have changed the depth in xorg.conf on the client
<ogra> nooo
<ogra> and then run the initscript ...
<juliux> yes but the thinclient hangs up
<ogra> if X doesnt start read the log on the client
<ogra> how
<ogra> how does it hang ?
<juliux> i cann t make any anthing
<juliux> no reaktion 
<juliux> ok the first error in the log file is that depth 24 is not supported
<ogra> does it restart X all the time ? does it just stay silent ? is the numlock key responding ? 
<juliux> no x dont  restart
<ogra> can you switch to console ? 
<juliux> yes
<juliux> i get a console
<ogra> so do that, log in, change the value for the depth, run the initscript ...
<juliux> ok
<ogra> check the X logfile whats wrong
<juliux> hm how can i insert something with vi?
<ogra> i
<ogra> or R for replace
<juliux> ok i get an erro if i want so save the config
<juliux> cant write viminfo file /root/.viminfo
<juliux> but the config is change
<juliux> what is the name of the initskript?
<juliux> the normal init skript?
<ogra> ltsp-client
<juliux> a thanks
<ogra> dont run the -setup script ... it will overwrite the xorg.conf again ...
<juliux> ok 
<juliux> cool the client has 300mhz and 256MB ram
<juliux> ogra, i cannt run ltsp-client on the client
<ogra_ibook> why ?
<juliux> command not found
<ogra_ibook>  /etc/init.d/ltsp-client start is not found o_O
<ogra_ibook> ?
<juliux> ah now
<ogra_ibook> does it run ? or does it fail ?
<juliux> it run
<juliux> but now i get out of range
<juliux> and the console is full of symbols but no login
<ogra_ibook> try dropping to a lower resolution with your next attempt
<juliux> i will reboot the client
<ogra_ibook> yup, repeat the procedure and drop off the highest resolution for 16bit in xorg.conf
<juliux> very strange
<ogra_ibook> ?
<juliux> it also fails with lower resolution
<ogra_ibook> still with the out of range error ?
<juliux> yes
<juliux> and than the console is broken
<juliux> i will take a picture of it
<juliux> someon from us here?
<ogra_ibook> what is the resolution you set in xorg.conf ?
<juliux> 1024x768
<ogra_ibook> hmm
<juliux> and this can my tft
<ogra_ibook> but probably not the graphics chip
<juliux> ah
<juliux> ok i will try 800x600
<ogra_ibook> does the logfile tell how much mem X has allocated ?
<ogra_ibook> it normally is in there
<juliux> i do not see it
<ogra> must be there 
<ogra> or an error with a big EE in front
<juliux> hm
<juliux> ok only on client boots, because the rest has no ram
<juliux> very cool
<juliux> i think i will send them back
<ogra> no errors ? try setting the VideoRam option in xorg.conf
<juliux> i stop playing with the compaq clients
<juliux> because i want to send the clients back
<ogra> give the guy my address, ill probably buy them
<juliux> ogra, i also can send them to you
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> how much did you pay ?
<juliux> i pay 75
<ogra> ok
<juliux> but i have no ac adapter yet
<ogra> mail me your bank data (tomorrow please, my mailserver is in maintenance until then )
<juliux> only one of a friend
<ogra> oh, you have to give back the wyse one ?
<juliux> the wyse on is from a friend
<juliux> the compaq i bought on ebay
<ogra> yes, i got that ... i didnt know you have to give it back
<juliux> i don t know
<juliux> i will ask him 
<juliux> if he as more ac adapter for me
<ogra> if i can get them with a power supply, i'll buy then 
<ogra> one is enough
<juliux> the problem with the compaq client is that only one has ram and sd card
<ogra> i only need one client to test, the rest would be spareparts anyway ...
<juliux> ah ok
<ogra> i dont have the space to have 100s of clients running in my office :)
<juliux> not?
<juliux> i have the place but not the thin clients ;)
<ogra> only 20 sqm for my office ...
<juliux> only is good
<ogra> and i will have more clients aound
<juliux> the problem i have is that i have only one tft
<ogra> canonical is pying for a lab, i only need the time to select some stuff i want
<juliux> cool
<juliux> so now i will phone rangee to ask them for thinclients
<juliux> ogra, i have 6 thinclients for 100!!
<ogra> wow
<juliux> the things i want to have in december on ebay i get
<ogra> coo
<ogra> l
<juliux> ogra, this is the screen i get if i run ltsp-client
<juliux> http://www.juliux.de/stuff/citrx.jpg
<ogra> hmm, looks funny
<juliux> yes very funny
<juliux> the only thing you can do is to poweroff the client
<writer> ogra I need you attention
<ogra_ibook> writer, but not for long, i'm about to leave to a datacenter to replace my mailserver
<writer> I have a lot of questons, when do you have any time for me?
<ogra_ibook> this evening if i have the new server running and hwdb.ubuntu.com up again
<writer> My time is 16.40 What time do you have?
<ogra_ibook> 13:42
<writer> I want to meet in the net tomorrow in 9 your time. OK?
<ogra_ibook> nope
<ogra_ibook> i normally work until 4am ... i wont be up at 9 on a saturday
<juliux> hehe
<ogra_ibook> lets say past 12
<writer> OK
<^eniac^> hi all
<thaetviking> I was trying to install Edubuntu on 3 Dell Inpirons.  All three are identical in hardware.  One successfully installed but the other two after booting to the cd and clicking enter to start installing have the screen fade to a white screen.  I upgraded the bios to A13.  Does anyone have another suggestion?
<lucasvo> thaetviking: try #ubuntu
<thaetviking> I was trying to install Edubuntu on 3 Dell Inpirons.  All three are identical in hardware.  One successfully installed but the other two after booting to the cd and clicking enter to start installing have the screen fade to a white screen.  I upgraded the bios to A13.  Does anyone have another suggestion?
<juliux> hi \sh 
<\sh> hi juliux 
<juliux> \sh, hny
<juliux> ogra, do you also want to have on of the rangee thinclients?
<lucasvo> juliux: rangee?
<juliux> lucasvo, http://www.rangee.de/
<juliux> lucasvo, http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5837157646&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEDW%3AIT&rd=1
<juliux> lucasvo, i have six thin clients
<lucasvo> juliux: cool
<juliux> but i sell this thin client to this people how make something with this thinclients
<lucasvo> ah
<lucasvo> :D
<Burgundavia> juliux, I did it last night
<dade> not all pxe enable card boots with edubuntu as client, my 3COM pci card could not boot 
<dade> how do I get other pxe enabled card such as 3Com PCI based ethernet card without much alteration to the dhcpd.conf file
#edubuntu 2006-01-12
<juliux> ogra, i cannt send you the compaq thinclients because my friend want to have back his ac adapter
<juliux> ogra, but i if you know somebody how comes from usa to europa to the next developer meeting he can buy you a ac adapter in usa by ebay for 15$
<lucasvo> juliux: what type of A/c adapter do you need?
<juliux> lucasvo, http://www.juliux.de/stuff/KIF_1670.JPG
<lucasvo> juliux: hm, you only have the plug not the adapter(even if it is broken?)
<writer> hey all!
<lucasvo> hello writer 
<writer> I have few questions
<writer> I got two Edubuntu disks CD and DVD. What difference?
<lucasvo> writer: on the dvd there are more apps
<lucasvo> people who have slow or even none connection the internet can use the dvd
<writer> I have very slow Internet:-(
<lucasvo> writer: in that case, you can install packages you need from dvd
<lucasvo> but it also takes you longer to download the dvd
<writer> What kind app on DVD? sudo apt-get edubuntu-desktop?
<lucasvo> writer: what do you mean? 
<lucasvo> writer: just enable it in your sources.list and than apt-cache search APP
<writer> I installed ubuntu, then i add edubuntu
<writer> some educate program are in games menu. How can I change its in Education?
<lucasvo> writer: right-click on the ubuntu sign next to applicatoins
<writer>  lucasvo: thanks, that right
<juliux> ogra, i can give you the 3 compaq thinclients and one wyse 3360se with ac adapter for 105
<juliux> ogra, the ac adapter for the wyse and the compaq are the same
<alejandro> hi all
<lucasvo> how much ram do I need on the client for ltsp?
<lucasvo> isn't 32MB enough?
<mhz_away> nope
<mhz_away> lucasvo: min. ideal is 48 in each client
<mhz_away> and 128 per client in the server
* mhz_away is off
<lucasvo> mhz_away: thanks!
<mhz_away> lucasvo: yw
<mhz_away> lucasvo: however, you can always test/try with diff desktop environments
<mhz_away> XFCE or Wmaker would need less ram
<mhz_away> however, server is always nicer with ram
<Lord_Athur> hey
<AngryAngryHippos> hi
<Lord_Athur> what's the directory for plugings of mozilla?
<AngryAngryHippos> <-- linux noob, sorry
<Lord_Athur> :d
<Lord_Athur> jejeje
<Lord_Athur> ok
<Lord_Athur> ogra, hi, could you talk few minutes?
#edubuntu 2006-01-13
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<johnjohn> hello
<johnjohn> oops... got to change my nickname
<johnjohn> I "just" installed edubuntu for the first time
<johnjohn> the simplest linux install i ever tried.  Mind you it's only my second or third one.
<johnjohn> couldn't wait for the cd's in the mail so i d/l edubuntu
<johnjohn> well cya
<frank3265948> Hi everybody, could sb give me a hint how to turn an installed Ubuntu into Edubuntu? I would expect it would be possible to add some Edubuntu repository locations and install the Edubuntu packages from there... But how?
<spacey_ki> frank3265948, type `apt-cache search edubuntu` or search for edubuntu in synaptic
<spacey_ki> and install the parts you like from edubuntu
<spacey_ki> edubuntu-desktop will do most of the trick
<spacey_ki> for an edubuntu desktop
<frank3265948> Thanks! That is really easy :-)) 
<mhz> has anyone seen jelkner or kjcole today?
<juliux> no
<mhz> juliux: hey
<mhz> juliux: i sometimes forget you are a total geek!
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> I could not have expected more from a geek answer: 1 or 0
<mhz> :D
<frank3265948> Another question, are there any Edubuntu or Ubuntu resources in Hungarian for 12 year olds, especially an introduction to using the PC and the Internet?
<juliux> mhz, hehe
<juliux> mhz, do you want to have a thin client?
<mhz> want to have?
<mhz> YES!
<juliux> mhz, i will check what it cost to send one to you
<mhz> juliux: I hope you will not tell me: "me too"
<mhz> juliux: wowo!!!
<mhz> juliux: thank you ver VERY VERY much!
<mhz> juliux: what have I done to deserve this?
<juliux> mhz, i get 6 thinclients from a company to develop and test edubuntu
<mhz> juliux: congrats!
<juliux> and a friend of me has also 26 thinclients
<mhz> Are there companies in Germany interested in Edubuntu development?
<juliux> it is a very small company
<mhz> frank3265948: I can't quite understand the question. Could be more specific please?
<juliux> and the sell thinclients on ebay and i ask them if i can get some cheaper for edubuntu development
<juliux> and i think that you can use on very good
* mhz is still waiting for a US piece-of-dishonest-man to ship 2 laptops MHz already payed for
<mhz> juliux: I truly appreciate your offer
<mhz> and I gladly accept it
<mhz> kjcole: hey
<mhz> kjcole: are we meeting with jelkner?
<frank3265948> Ok, I'm preparing a PC with Edubuntu for Domi, a 12 year old girl in Hungary. She knows verly little English only. That's why I'm asking about any kind of resources in Hungarian, books, articles,... 
<juliux> but i have to check what the shipit cost and what the taxes must paid
<mhz> frank3265948: oh, you mean books, writings or Applications?
<kjcole> mhz: G'morning.  We're both just setting up.  Elkner was getting the diet cokes. ;-)
<juliux> mhz, can you send me your address to juliux@ubuntu-de.org
<mhz> juliux: sure!
<kjcole> mhz: He's still booting up his laptop.  Joining us momentarily.
<mhz> juliux: i am about to start a meeting. After that, you'll get an email from me
<juliux> ok
<mhz> kjcole: MOMENTARILY?
<mhz> oops, sorry Caps
<kjcole> mhz: In a moment...
<jelkner> mhz: good morning, mauricio, i haven't spoken to you since yesterday! ;-)
<mhz> kjcole: and what # would this be?
<kjcole> mhz, "...and then there were three..." ;-)
<mhz> jclinton: hehe, welcome back
<mhz> jelkner: hehe, welcome back
<jelkner> btw. do you have the log from yesterday?
<mhz> DUH!!!
<mhz> this autocompleting
<mhz> jelkner: yup, sorry i haven't sent it
<mhz> i will right away
<jelkner> gracias!
<mhz> nada de gracias... U$1,000
<mhz> :D
<kjcole> lucasvo, ping?
<mhz> jelkner: where should we move?
<mhz> or will stay here?
<jelkner> well, we could pop over to #ubuntu-dca
<mhz> I will accept what you guys tell me
<kjcole> mhz, go there. ;-)
<mhz> okis
<jelkner> mhz: never mind, why not stay here?
<mhz> hehehe
<jelkner> i know where the logs go for this channel
<jelkner> and we may need to ping ogra
<mhz> I'm here then
<jelkner> ok, here is the plan:
<jelkner> 1. we take the existing text, and editing as little as possible, we convert it from tuxlabs to edubuntu
<jelkner> 2. we start adding new material, screen shots, etc. specific to the dapper edubuntu release
<jelkner> we are well on our way to completing 1
<mhz> .oO(so far, so good
<littlepaul> jelkner, what about a edubuntu faq like http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntufaq?
<jelkner> 2 will need to wait until later toward spring when we have a running edubuntu to work with
<jelkner> littlepaul: i don't know anything about the faq
<jelkner> are you working on it?
<littlepaul> atm yes, but not daily..
<jelkner> littlepaul: neither kevin or i can read german
<littlepaul> jelkner, I read the #edubuntulogs and try to select important things...; in the near future we will translate the site
<jelkner> great
<littlepaul> jelkner, i will contact you
<jelkner> later on, we can compare docs for consistency, completeness, etc
<mhz> faq/ if this is important, maybe we could run a poll or survey on the ML
<jelkner> it is way to early to do that now
<mhz> faq/ and have them submit a list of Q/A
<jelkner> ok, we need to get back to working on the book
<mhz> yup
<jelkner> mhz: how did you want to help?
<mhz> jelkner: simply reading and complementing info, addng screenshots, and maybe sections for endusers
<mhz> Adding edubuntu everywhere
<mhz> :)
<kjcole> mhz, (FYI: My time today is short...  I've got out-of-country visitors coming early next week.)
<jelkner> perhaps the best bet is to let kevin and i finish stage 1, and then distribute what we come up with to all interested folks
<jelkner> we still don't have a revision control system working
<mhz> kjcole: np, i understand
<jelkner> so we'll just be emailing each other tar balls
<jelkner> and getting together in person
<mhz> jelkner: what is the issue with RCS? hosting or making it work?
<kjcole> mhz, do you have your own web space anywhere that is NOT a wiki?  (Just a place where you can dump files?)  Until "bzr push" works the way we'd like, the only option is for me to pull changes from other people's web spaces.
<jelkner> we found a place to host
<jelkner> making it work is the problem
<jelkner> if  you know bzr
<jelkner> and wish to help that way
<jelkner> you could work with paul flint to make it work
<mhz> kjcole: ehehe, I can offer SSH access to either 'ubuntu-cl.org' or 'tecnocimiento.cl'  (i prefer the first)
<jelkner> that would be great
<jelkner> mhz: we have a machine
<mhz> and make BZR test as a server
<jelkner> we just don't know how bzr works
<mhz> bzr shouldn't be that complex
<mhz> I can try and report on monday/tuesday
<kjcole> mhz, jelkner is trying to phone flint.  I think we may have a solution to the bzr problem...
<mhz> cool
<kjcole> mhz, the idea would be that each person working on the cookbook would get their own account on a box that flint has, which is ONLY for documentation. That gets around the problem of opening up my office's computers to the outside world.
<kjcole> mhz, I've gotten in trouble once before (BIG trouble) for doing that.
<mhz> kjcole: I understand
<mhz> I have never had problems so far
<mhz> because SSH is used by trusted people via SSH-keys
<kjcole> mhz, the master repository would move to my account on flint's machine, which he's setting up as docbox.flint.com (I don't know if he's finished that yet).
<kjcole> mhz, the problem was that someone I trusted betrayed me.  It wasn't a random stranger.  I was helping a student, and he found a way to hack into all of campus using my system.
<mhz> kjcole: oooooooppps
<mhz> sheets!!!
<kjcole> mhz, the director of computer services called campus security, who overreacted and called the FBI computer crime squad.  I was not allowed on campus for three months, my comptuer was confiscated, and I was lucky to get a job back.  So, now I'm very, very paranoid.  Not about people off-campus, but about gallaudet overreacting again.
<mhz> kjcole: i am truly sorry
<mhz> and i guess/hope that wont happen again
<mhz> we need you to have that job so you can have time to help us :)
<kjcole> mhz, not a problem.  It's just that I'll put stuff on these machines for people to "pull" to their machines, but there's no way I'm going to give write access.  And this gallaudet comptuers are the only place that I can set up bzr.  But by setting up on flint's machine which is running ubuntu, the problem is solved... I hope.
<mhz> me too
<mhz> and in case that wont work, we can still use ubuntu-cl.org
<kjcole> mhz, that's also a strong possibility.
<mhz> something like educookbook.ubuntu-cl.org
* mhz would love to have huge server to offer UserModeLinux accounts hosting so everyone can have a whole machine to work on
<mhz> or screw up
<mhz> :)
<kjcole> mhz, There's a fun idea!  (We had a great presentation to students on UML from a local guy here.)
<kjcole> mhz, jelkner's finally gotten a hold of flint and he's explaining the details now.
<mhz> educool
<kjcole> mhz, jelkner's encouraging flint onto #edubuntu
* mhz sends positive vibs to jelkner and flint
<kjcole> mhz, he should be joining us in a moment.
<mhz> kjcole: I know nothing about UML just the theory and some benefits I imagine
* mhz preapres cookies for flint ;)
<kjcole> mhz, The presentation is online... I THINK on yhslug.tux.org.
<mhz> (gee, I am not sure this is an a11y issue, kjcole but I do mix stuff when writing)
* mhz tabbing
<mhz> flint: welcome
<kjcole> http://yhslug.tux.org/presentations/uml.tar.bz2
<flint> mhz, you there?
<mhz> flint: alive and kicking
<mhz> ;)
<flint> mhz is "mhz" an acceptable username?
<mhz> hmmm, it stands for Mauricio Hernandez Zamora
<mhz> my real name
<flint> i mean like a shell logon identifier?
<mhz> ooh, yes
<jelkner> mhz, flint, let us know how it goes...
<jelkner> i'm going to sign off and work on editing
<mhz> flint: my ssh key was genearated from mhz user
<jelkner> my little pooh brain can't mulittask very well :-(
<kjcole> ok, jelkner and I are pulling out for now.   You and flint will be working out details of DNS registration and user access.  I'll move the repository to docbox.flint.com...
<mhz> jelkner: it's the diet cokes
<jelkner> same time next week
<jelkner> lol
<jelkner> not to mention fits, but more about that later
<flint> mhz hang on the channel...we have business.
<mhz> flint: okis
<kjcole> mhz, you got that right.  And thanks for reminding me.  I need my third one for the morning... Caffeine!!!
<mhz> kjcole: hehe
<mhz> lol
<flint> what is your phone number?
<mhz> kjcole: have noice day with visits
<mhz> flint: mine?
<flint> elkner, you need an account on this box as well.  Trust me.
<mhz> flint: no idea on which machine you are working on, but I can send you my ssh-key public part
<flint> mhz, never mind.  are you familiar with the lower case name of a long, yellow fruit in english?
<mhz> yup :D
<mhz> though, no code-monkey here :D
<flint> I do not have this machine in dns yet.
<flint> the ip address is: 64.5.53.104 
<mhz> okis
* mhz terminaling
<flint> you have shell priviledges on this system.
<flint> I thought this meeting was at 10:00 EDT... good grief!
<flint> you are not there yet!
<mhz> flint: i'm there
<flint> yes indeed you are!  do you know ytalk?
<mhz> nope, but i can try
<flint> grrr it is not working hold on...
<flint> got it...
<flint> try ytalk flint...
<flint> hold on let me loose root.
<mhz> heheh
<mhz> I was reading man
<flint> thanks for your patience...please try again...
<mhz> what should I press to accept?
<flint> Y i suppose...
<flint> hang on I am getting eric-the-weasel on line...
<mhz> -bash: Y: command not found
<mhz> hmm, let's try again
<flint> gotcha...  I saw you come up but forgot to press y
<mhz> oh, y intead of Y
<mhz> hmm, let's try again
<mhz> :)
* mhz can't give up easily
<mhz> nope
<flint> thanks for your patiencey
<mhz> no y either
<flint> thanks again try.
<mhz> new_user: bad host: 'none':
<flint> got to add another user now.  try ytalk -h 64.5.53.104 flint
<flint> ok now let us try this one more time...\
<mhz> okis, i wait
<mhz> seems ok?
<mhz> what if we use 'write' messaging application?
<flint> hold 
<mhz> okis
<mhz> flint: I am very patient, esp. whith new things for me, so I am very relax
<mhz> sont worry
<mhz> dont worry
<flint> hold got problems with other user...
<flint> got rid of other user...yay!
<flint> ok.  one problem is that this box thinks its name is "none".  Its name is docbox.
<flint> any ideas?
<mhz> flint: hmm, what if we use write?
<mhz> do you see my messages in your terminal?
<flint> i have never had luck with it.  you are on, so I am working on getting this box set up to be very usable.
<mhz> okis
<mhz> what if we chanfe the hostname?
<flint> I have messages.  
<flint> check the hostname file...
<mhz> can you respond them starting with write?
<mhz> oh, rihgt
<flint> what is the syntax for write?
<mhz> maybe you set it but you have not rebooted sonce then?
<mhz> write user
<mhz> and just write stuff
<flint> for gods sake.  this is linux, now windows :^)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> restarted the service?
<mhz> :D
* mhz had never had such problems
* mhz checking with init.d
<flint> did not work with write.  send me the exact syntax of a message you write to me.
<mhz> $ write flint <enter>
<mhz> and I guess you should write back like 
<flint> got it.  the brackets have eluded me hold...
<mhz> $ write mhz
<mhz> or
<mhz> $ write hi back
* mhz is using write for 1st time
<mhz> :)
<flint> you sent the word "holas" please cut and paste that line into this stream.
<mhz> $ write flint <ENTER> 
<mhz> holas
<flint> ok, I got it, I hate this.  the idea is you must open and close the command line stream... back to ytalk.
<mhz> hehehe
<flint> give me a mon
<spacey_ki> i recommend using irc
<spacey_ki> :)
<flint> spacey_ki, nothing beats ssh and ytalk for discretion... but your point is well taken...
<spacey_ki> whats discreet about it?:P
<flint> well, we want to work on this particular system, and we are both remote to it.
<mhz> flint: so, just enter doesn't keep it open?
<flint> mhz, see what i mean?
<mhz> flint: oh, but if you wait until i reply ?
<flint> btw thanks for the write lesson.  I was never able to get the silly thing right (write:^)
<mhz> :)
<flint> mhz did you see  twelve lines scroll by on your terminal?
<mhz> yup
<mhz> but what if you dont press CTRL-D
<mhz> ?
<mhz> and I try to respond
<flint> if you end your wriite session with an <enter> key how can you send me a multi line write?
* mhz investigating
<flint> I presume without further guidance, that the only way to terminate a write session is with a file close...
<mhz>  Any further lines you enter will be copied to the specified users terminal.  If the other
<mhz>      user wants to reply, they must run write as well.
<flint> file closes can be mapped to whatever, but on my terminal they are not mapped to enter
<flint> lemme work on this machine name problem and then the dns registration.  This box will be called docbox.flint.com
<mhz> The traditional protocol for writing to someone is that the string -o, either at the end of
<mhz>      a line or on a line by itself, means that its the other persons turn to talk.  The string
<mhz>      oo means that the person believes the conversation to be over.
<flint> in the world of galladuette university, a tradition exists within the hearing impaired community to conclude tty with the string "sksk"
<flint> this translates to "stop key stop key", arent these things wonderful to know?
<mhz> heheh, indeed
<mhz> but I keep seeing EOF ;)
<flint> even with the -o at the end I still need to send a <control> d in order to get the message away in write...
<flint> any ideas on the machine name?
<mhz> what if we used 'talk' only?
<mhz> $ talk user
<flint> you chew on that I am going to try to figure why the weasel cannot log on.  
<mhz> okis
<flint> that is going around the problem and may not do the job.  worth a try i suppose.  btw you got a skype terminal?
<mhz> heheh, nope
<mhz> no skype, no AMSN, no Gaim
<mhz> only irc
<mhz> no Kopete
<flint> just thinking about my case of carpel tunnel... :^)
<mhz> (though Kopete was started by a Chilean fella)
<mhz> ohh
<mhz> sorry
<mhz> I have Gnome-Meeting
<flint> stand by and let me work on this login problem.  see if you can figure out how to chang this damn boxes name from "none"
<mhz> flint: piece of cake
<mhz> as root, edit /etc/hostname
<mhz> and change it for whatever
<mhz> then, /etc/init.d/hostnmae.sh restart
<mhz> well, flint with no typos :D
<flint> will try... note that hostname is already changed.
<mhz> then
<mhz> just run /etc/init.d/hostname.sh
<mhz> and, after that, relogin so terminal get refreshed
<flint> never encountered the hostname shell before... thought it got read at login or by inetd or whatever...
<mhz> :)
<flint> did not work.
<mhz> you will know 'hostname' has been changed because when you run 'hostname' it will show
<mhz> ?
<flint> flint@none:~ $ ytalk mhz
<flint> new_user: bad host: 'none':
<mhz> flint: you have not run '/etc/init.d/hostname.sh restart' have you?
<flint> oh indeed i did... and notice that /etc/hostname is "docbox"
<flint> ...beginning to think a reboot is a good idea :^)
<mhz> and I am not in 'admin' group so I can't do it for you, but it must work
<flint> i know...
<mhz> because it works on my 2 ubuntu boxes
<mhz> without rebooting
<mhz> and does '/etc/init.d/hostname.sh restart' give you any output?
<flint> not a thing...
<flint> let me take this apart a bit.
<mhz> ehehehe, but please remove me from admin group after we solve this
* mhz prefers no access to important things
<mhz> okis
<mhz> it works
<mhz> flint: you have to exit and login back again to see the changes
<flint> i did that.  I just executed the gnu hostname command and the box appears to be docbox...
<flint> hang-on.
<mhz> again pleasw :)
<mhz> at least no more bad host
<flint> now that the name is working things are gettgin better
<flint> I could try talk...
<flint> [Ringing mhz...] 
* mhz responds talk flint@64.5.53.104
<mhz> but nothing happens
<flint> this should not be this hard.... :^(
<writer> Hi noch ein mal. I need the help. Who know how make LiveCD Edubuntu?
<lucasvo> writer: there is a livecd
<writer> Where?
<lucasvo> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/
<lucasvo> writer: but it is quite new, so there are some bugs
<writer> And may I self make LiveCD from my system. I mix ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu very nice
<lucasvo> writer: I don't know about that 
<writer> OK. Who used Edubuntu in school? I intersting usability of Edubuntu.
<writer> lucasvo: on the link I saw only  MD5SUMS  08-Jan-2006 01:04    0     MD5SUMS.gpg             08-Jan-2006 01:04  189     report.html             08-Jan-2006 00:54  253   
<lucasvo> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily-live/20060105/
<writer>  lucasvo: O! Thanks, I found
<mhz> writer: I have used Edubuntu in schools
<mhz> writer: so far, Edubuntu is very cool
<mhz> for schools env.
<writer> env.? what is this? What kind classes?
<mhz> environment
<mhz> Mat classes?
<mhz> math
<mhz> and language
<mhz> for young kids
<mhz> but for me it's been only testing, not on regular basis
<writer> What age young kids?
<writer> and where. Your country mhz?
<flint> ollie, whazzzup?
<flint> we have cobbled together a bzr repository at docbox.flint.com
<flint> this is a messy pile of plates, the base of the system is warty and not subject to change...
<flint> mhz, are you back?
#edubuntu 2006-01-14
<lordmundi> sup guys
<lordmundi> and gals
<lordmundi> decided to try and install edubuntu on a computer for my son... the install on the cd is hanging when it is detecting cd drives
<lordmundi> specifically, it gets to loading "ide_cd" and hangs
<lordmundi> i am doing a workstation install
<lordmundi> any ideas?
<Burgundavia> lordmundi, you tried another cd?
<lordmundi> no
<lordmundi> but the cd seems fine
<lordmundi> up to that point anyways
<lordmundi> :)
<lordmundi> seems like the physical cd in the drive shouldn't matter when loaing the ide_cd module
<Burgundavia> lordmundi, if the cd burned incorrectly, it may be loading corrupted bits
<Burgundavia> after you try a different cd, try a different cd drive
<lordmundi> looking for some install help
<pc22> how do i edit resolution. 640x480 is the only choice
<jsgotangco> pc22, sudo dpkg-reconfiger xserver-xorg
<pc22> ok thanks 
<pc22> thats the best i remmber now
<pc22> jsgotangco, cool thanks
<pc22> ok na
<jsgotangco> yay
<pc22> bbl
<juliux> morgning JaneW 
<JaneW> hello :)
<juliux> hnj
<JaneW> hello highvoltage  :)
<jsgotangco> JaneW, WELCOME BACKKKK
<JaneW> jsgotangco: thanks :)
* JaneW is wading around in e-mail atm
<JaneW> I seem to have deleted one I saw earlier from sabdfl though, erk...
<jsgotangco> i hope you didnt gain unwanted calories duiring the holidays
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I did great up to New Year, but the last week did me in ;)
<JaneW> and I have pulled a ligament in my leg so can't run atm :/
<jsgotangco> ouychhhh
<francoisb> Hello,
<francoisb> I'm trrying to improve a multiple users script
<francoisb> I found it at http://www.lfsp.org/
<francoisb> It's working fine but users are created with no privileges.
<francoisb> Is it possible to connect users-admin profiles : Desktop, Administrator... ?
<francoisb> The script I use calls useradd.*
<francoisb> Wich secondary group can I add to provide "normal user" privileges (eg no sudo, it's for pupils)
<francoisb> Seems there's noone free by now... I'll call later. Bye.
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:juliux] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: there will be NO meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan. | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | see also #edubuntu-es and #edubuntu-de | you need a cheap
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:juliux] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: there will be NO meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan. | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | you need a cheap thinclient? contact juliux
<juliux> ogra, do you want to have the compaq thinclients and a wyse thinclient?
<juliux> ogra, and i also have a rangee thinclien if you want
<ogra> yup, sure :)
<juliux> ogra, ok
<juliux> ogra, the wyse an the compaq have the same ac adapter. but i have only one
<ogra_ibook> juliux, thats fine with me 
<juliux> ogra_ibook, ok
<juliux> ogra_ibook, i think i get the rangee thinclients this week
<juliux> ogra_ibook, then i will send you the 5 thinclients
<ogra_ibook> just mail me your bank data and sen them here
<ogra_ibook> *send
<juliux> ok
<juliux> i have to check what the shipit cost
<ogra_ibook> i'll pay for it as well, just send me the total amount i have to transfer
<juliux> ok i will do
<guim> hi all
<guim> and happy new year
<guim> :)
<writer> hi
<ogra_ibook> happy new year guim 
<juliux> guim, hnp
<juliux> hny
<highvoltage> happy new year from me too
<highvoltage> ok, back tomorrow. cheers!
<mdeboer> hello, i created a jigsaw puzzle game, glpuzzle. http://www.resorama.com/glpuzzle , maybe you find it interesting
<ubuntunewbie> Can a newbie ask a quick question?
* ..[topic/#edubuntu:Burgwork] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: 11 Jan at 12:00 UTC | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | you need a cheap thinclient? contact juliux
<anagramarama> hi folks, I think my little game would be a good addition to edubuntu, how do I go about getting it considered?
<tamc> list
<tamc> help
<Burgwork> anagramarama, which game?
<anagramarama> anagramarama
<anagramarama> it's an anagram game
<anagramarama> http://www.coralquest.com/anagramarama
<Burgwork> anagramarama, raise the idea on edubuntu-devel
<anagramarama> thx - will do.
<mhz> kjcole: hi man
<kjcole> mhz, Hiya.
<mhz> kjcole: I have just finished reading LOTs of emails
<mhz> oooh, LOTs = Lord Of The ...
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> I didnt know you had 'groupies' :)
<kjcole> mhz, The author Marshall McLuhan (sp?) once said "everyone will have 15 minutes of fame" (or maybe it was Andy Warhol).  I've got mine.  See fridge.ubuntu.com's top entry. ;-)
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> indeed
<kjcole> Having flint as a groupie is a frightening concept. ;-)
<kjcole> mhz, I cannot recall: Are you already comfy with CSV or subversion?  (or other RCS)?
<kjcole> mhz, are the log and IRC transcript that I put out on docbox of any use to you, now or in the future?
<mhz> kjcole: I was in nirvana (as jsgotango would put it) with BZR but I was used to SVN before.
<mhz> kjcole: absolutely! I love logs
<mhz> (though I would love to have more time to read all of them)
<kjcole> mhz, I have to clean both up a little, to try making it more of a tutorial.  Right now the log is my trials and errors with bzr, and other file is a Q&A with jblack.
<mhz> kjcole: IMHO, they are good to start
<mhz> and if someone else feels it is necessary to clean it up (unless you have time for it) he can do it.
<kjcole> mhz, well that's the way I felt with the MOTU School: It's out on the wiki for those with better formatting skills or better knowledge of deb packaging to fix.  Eventually, I'll try to weave my trial and error log, and last night's Q&A into something I can put out on the wiki as well.
<mhz> kjcole: good
<kjcole> mhz, I've got to remember to get my old moin-moin stuff back into usable shape: When I switched from Fedora to Ubuntu, I saved all my moin-moin pages, but didn't save them in any fancy way.  I just copied the directory tree.  Now I need to figure out where I want to put things in Ubuntu, and the best way to pull the pages back in.
<kjcole> mhz, there weren't that many pages, but they were somewhat useful.
<kjcole> mhz, time for me to run off to din-din.  A student who I'm working with is treating. (Apparently he has extra "credit" on his meal plan card.)
<mhz> kjcole: I can help you with Moin recovery
<mhz> it all matter of placing that backup (i guess /data dir)
<kjcole> mhz, help would be welcome.  (I've done this once before when moving from RH9 to Fedora, but don't want to figure it out again, if someone more familiar knows it better. And I know you're a fan.)
<kjcole> mhz, I'll get back to you perhaps this evening after I've eaten.  If not, later in the week.
<kjcole> Bye for now.
<mhz> kjcole: I'll try to write up a HowTo
<mhz> bye
<mhz> and send it to you
<pitux> hi a have a question
<pitux> hello i have a hhd instaled how secundary slave
<mhz> okis
<pitux> mhz, helpme please
<mhz> sure
<pitux> mhz, ayudame porfa
<mhz> (I am off to dinner in 3 minutes, so let's do it now)
<mhz> pitux: shoot
<pitux> a que dispositivo coresponde en linux, un disco que inatle como esclavo secundario
<mhz> hda -> 1st Master
<mhz> hdb -> 1st Slave
<mhz> hdc -> 2nd Master (usually CDROM)
<mhz> hdd -> 2nd Slave
<pitux> ahhh ok
<mhz> pitux: so I guess your case is hdd ?
<pitux> eys
<pitux> yes
<mhz> pitux: but make sure the 'plastic' thing is located correctly
<pitux> is my new hdd
#edubuntu 2006-01-15
<mhz> pitux: congratulations!
<pitux> yes windoze recognized
<mhz> hehhehe
<pitux> the system file i think is ntfs
<mhz> hmmm, no idea :)
<mhz> This is the 1st time I am glad I have no idea about something :D
<pitux> ok 
<pitux> thanks 
<mhz_BackIn2hrs> JaneW: happy new year!
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<JaneW> hi mhz. Thanks and to you and yours too!
<mhz> JaneW: LOL!
<mhz> a bit late but thx
<JaneW> hope it's a good one
<mhz> JaneW: we'll see
<mhz> I hope your kids are healthy enough
* mhz understands sick kids are big issue
<JaneW> mine are very well atm
<mhz> one can't work at same speed
<JaneW> thyey are still on holiday thogough
<mhz> will we see eachother on Wed?
<JaneW> yes
<mhz> all Chilean kids are off school until March
<JaneW> march!?
<mhz> JaneW: yup
<mhz> from December until March
<mhz> :D
<JaneW> wow
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> big wow!
<JaneW> they get a month here
<JaneW> university students get 2 months
<mhz> JaneW: I almost forget... 2 and 1/2 pages for Edubuntu in a Magazine article written by me and being delivered to 350 schools now
<JaneW> excellent!
<JaneW> do you havce an electronic version?
<JaneW> s/v
<mhz> JaneW: nope but I am trying to get a scanner to wiki it
<JaneW> put it in the edubuntu in the press section!
<JaneW> cool, thanks :)
<mhz> at least the article
<JaneW> else take a photo of each page at least...
<mhz> JaneW: yeah, I can do that
<mhz> JaneW: next week I'll have lots of info I need to start Edbuntu Tour in Chile this year. We'd love to have Ubuntu and Edubuntu on same 'scenario'. And I was wondering if there's any big chance we can count with Edubuntu/Ubuntu people to visit us (and Colombia and Brazil, maybe)
<mhz> This week I am designing a draft of Edubuntu Training courses (20 hrs each) for Teachers
<mhz> and in the Tour, we'll be using these courses too
<mhz> but having the prescence of Canonical hired people would be just perfect to show this is not only a kind LoCo team effort but something bigger and more motivating so others can join too
<JaneW> mhz: Unfortunately I can't commit atm, but I do belive in your cause...
<mhz> hehehe
<mhz> okis
<JaneW> I think the best thing to do to get noticed by Canonical and get more 'official' involvement is to
<JaneW> keep documenting everything you do and keep copies of all the successes and press mentions etc
<mhz> okis, I can do that
<JaneW> the more noise and activity happeneing there, the more chance of there being a decision to go there...
<mhz> thx for the honesty
<JaneW> I know Mark was thinking of doing an Ubuntu Summit somewhere in South America in the next year or so.
<JaneW> We could very possibly influence that to be Chile, if we can show that you have an active and organised community there.
<mhz> well, i'll see what i can do
<JaneW> and South America seems to have taken to the FOSS idea very strongly, from what I can telll
<mhz> and start making lots of noise
<mhz> indeed
<JaneW> so the market is strong and willing there
<mhz> Colombia, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, etc
<JaneW> and is being helped by the fact that it's being legislated by governments such as that of Brazil etc
<mhz> yup
<mhz> BUT actually, companies and some schools dont belive in Tecnocimiento because we're more like a community
<mhz> of volunteers only
<mhz> so, it's very likely
<mhz> we'll start some processes to become NGO
<mhz> and maybe get some money and support
<mhz> (last 3 months were a disaster in terms of income)
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<JaneW> mhz: understood
<jsgotangco> JaneW, Fishnet stockings!
<JaneW> jsgotangco: blush!!
<Burgundavia> JaneW, do teel
<Burgundavia> tell, even
<JaneW> nevar! :P
* Burgundavia wonders how to extract it out of her
<jsgotangco> JaneW, I shall await when the circus comes to town
<JaneW> jsgotangco: the circus has come and gone I am afraid ;)
<jsgotangco> gahhh
* Burgundavia figures the circus is wherever JaneW and marilize are
<JaneW> Burgundavia: oi!
<Burgundavia> ;)
<guim> http://www.claroline.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4756
<guim> oups sorry guys
<guim> wrong channel :-) ...
<johnjohn> is edubuntu written in spanish?
<johnjohn> or available in?
<johnjohn> i gave a cd to a lady today who is flying to san miguel
<johnjohn> hoping she would pass it on to someone at the bibliotech
<Burgundavia> johnjohn, yes, and there is a very active spanish community
<JaneW> johnjohn: speak to mhz, he runs the edubuntu Chile community.
<jsgotangco> JaneW, fishnet stockings and pirate knife throwers ahrrrr blimey
<JaneW> jsgotangco: did you see the tea bags?
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> heh
<spacey_ki> morning
<juliux> ogra_ibook, the rangee thinclient are here
<ogra_ibook> cool !
<juliux> later i will upload same pictures
<juliux> ogra_ibook, do you know how to get into bios from thinclients?
<ogra_ibook> nope
<juliux> hm i think i will call rangee
<juliux> because on the clients is little linux
<juliux> but no boot menu
<juliux> shit i have to go to uni
<spacey_ki> ogra, hey
<spacey_ki> correct that ldm still gives a problem in dapper 
<spacey_ki> did an upgrade from breezy to dapper and still had to apt-get -f install
<spacey_ki> ?
<spacey_ki> still got problems them ldm doesn't want to log in btw. BRB, i'll copy the logs from the thinclient
<spacey> nfs timing out is also still common
<spacey> at least the bootchart works again
<mhz> ogra: hi, ping
<ogra_ibook> hey mhz 
<mhz> ogra: i wont be able to get to CC today :(
<ogra_ibook> its in 10 mins ..
<mhz> jsgotangco and Yagisan already know
<ogra_ibook> oki
<mhz> yup
<mhz> i'll hurry my butt up as much as possible to get back ASAP
<mhz> bytes
<ogra_ibook> bye
<jsgotangco> ogra_ibook, hi, you've been loving ppc lately =)
<ogra_ibook> yes, multiarch support and ppc install/live testing were necessary :)
<mhz> ogra_ibook: so what happened to Madpilot? is he in?
<ogra_ibook> yup
<mhz> duh! I never saw that part
<AngryAngryHippos> hey, anyone around?
<mhz> yup
<AngryAngryHippos> know anything about thin client?
<AngryAngryHippos> Im wondering if it's possible to set up a tuxlab-style thin client system using regular ubuntu
<mhz> Edubuntu does that
<mhz> and even Edubuntu CookBook is based on TuxLab Cookbook
<mhz> working very close
<AngryAngryHippos> yeah Im wondering if it's possible to set up the same system in regular ubuntu
<AngryAngryHippos> is it just a matter of installing the right packages?
<AngryAngryHippos> or is there something fundamentally missing
<mhz> be more specific please?
<AngryAngryHippos> I've been having a lot of trouble with it
<AngryAngryHippos> ok one sec, let me pull up my stuff
<mhz> edubuntu-server will install LTSP (modified and improved) and the environment 99% ready to just start booting clients, while edubuntu-desktop will provide apps and Look&Feel
<mhz> AngryAngryHippos: and the best tip I can give is read InstallNotes
<AngryAngryHippos> ok
<AngryAngryHippos> wheres that
<mhz> just go throught the steps
<mhz> and only set you network (if needed) and thats it
<mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra_ibook> (or /topic ;) )
<AngryAngryHippos> this will work in plain ubuntu?
<AngryAngryHippos> I was on the ubuntu forums thin client howto and I had a ton of problems... lol dont even want to start listing them
<ogra_ibook> the wiki ThinClientHowto should be fine
<spacey_ki> hey ogra 
<ogra_ibook> hi
<spacey_ki> read my previous messages?
<AngryAngryHippos> anyway thx mhz, I'll try that out
<ogra_ibook> spacey_ki, ldm ? 
<mhz> AngryAngryHippos: okis, good luck
<ogra_ibook> AngryAngryHippos, the InstallNotes are rather for a plain edubuntu install 
<ogra_ibook> AngryAngryHippos, try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto
<ogra_ibook> thats for a normal ubuntu
<spacey_ki> ogra, yeah
<spacey_ki> and got something wierd atm
<ogra_ibook> spacey_ki, i didnt fix it yet
<spacey_ki> can't login with the thin clients
<spacey_ki> ok
<spacey_ki> i'll paste the message
<ogra_ibook> did you run ltsp-update-sshkeys ? 
<spacey_ki> Connection to 192.168.1.4 closed by remote host.
<spacey_ki> debug1: Transferred: stdin 0, stdout 0, stderr 50 bytes in 0.3 seconds
<spacey_ki> debug1: Bytes per second: stdin 0.0, stdout 0.0, stderr 153.2
<spacey_ki> debug1: Exit status -1
<spacey_ki> yup
<spacey_ki> thats not the problem
<ogra_ibook> hmm
<ogra_ibook> looks weird
<spacey_ki> debug1: Host '192.168.1.4' is known and matches the RSA host key.
<spacey_ki> so that works
<spacey_ki> oh
<spacey_ki> maybe another key
<spacey_ki> anyway that part is right
<ogra_ibook> the session on the server works locally ? 
<ogra_ibook> s/session/gnome-session
<spacey_ki> I can log in with NX
<ogra_ibook> can you log in directly in gdm ? 
<spacey_ki> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6894
<spacey_ki> box is not hooked up to any keyboard/monitor atm
<spacey_ki> i could try that tomorrow
<spacey_ki> see the paste url
<spacey_ki> for the ldm.log
<ogra_ibook> looks like your X session is broken
<ogra_ibook> or X11 itself
<spacey_ki> hhmm
<ogra_ibook> the user exists etc ? (has a /home etc ?)
<spacey_ki> Xsession: X session started for herman at di jan 10 14:44:01 CET 2006
<spacey_ki> No profile for user 'herman' found
<spacey_ki> is in .xsession-errors
<ogra_ibook> hmm
<spacey_ki> ogra, yes, else NX wouldn't work either?
<ogra_ibook> i have not the slightest idea about the NX package you use 
<ogra_ibook> and i dont know if NX even remotely uses any of the system defaults ...
<ogra_ibook> i guess it just calls gnome-session or whatever you choose
<ogra_ibook> so NX wont be giving me any valid info ... a local login would though
<spacey_ki> i'll try that tomorrow
<spacey_ki> i'm not on location now
<ogra_ibook> oki
<juliux> ogra_ibook, there are the pictures of the thinclients  http://www.juliux.de/linux/thinall.JPG  http://www.juliux.de/linux/thininnen.JPG  http://www.juliux.de/linux/thinunten.JPG  http://www.juliux.de/linux/thinvorne.JPG
<mhz> juliux: hi 
<juliux> hi mhz 
* mhz likes the pictures
<juliux> mhz, but i think i will send you a wyse thinclient if the work
<mhz> wyse?
<juliux> one moment
* mhz loves Fujitsu technology, a lot!
<juliux> mhz, wyse is also fujitsu
<juliux> i think
<mhz> I really like the idea, it will very useful for both testing and demoing in public
<juliux> mhz, but it is a thinclient from 2000
<mhz> but? no but, it's good
<mhz> ;)
<juliux> mhz, ok
<juliux> but at first i have to get it running with linux;=
<mhz> hahahaha
<mhz> I have made my 'thin-laptop' (no CD nor floppy) boot from M$ into Linux netboot
<juliux> mhz, at the moment is a windows ce 
<mhz> puaj!!!
<mhz> CE sucks!
<juliux> jup
<mhz> even M$ for Pocket PC work better :D
<mhz> wow! Gnash
<Burgwork> mhz, sadly that means there are now three free flash players
<Burgwork> GPL: Gnash and GPLflash and LGPL:swfdec
<mhz> booo
<mhz> didnt know
* mhz hardly uses any Flash stuff or site
<Burgwork> mostly people assumed that gnash == gplflash
<mhz> i try to avoid Flash sites and I even send letter requesting site versions with HTML
<writer> Escuse me. What is "Gnash"?
<mhz> writer:  a flash player and firefox plugin ( http://tinyurl.com/a6mev ).... it's one of the FSF's priority projects ( http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority.html ) and a real FOSS milestone
<writer> Now I need see FSF and FOSS. Ok. Thank mhz
<mhz> FreeSoftwareFoundation and Free Open Source Software
<mhz> writer: was that it?
<writer> I look on the site FSF and understand
<writer> I'm not programmer:-(
<mhz> writer: me neither
<mhz> ;)
<mhz> so dont worry
<mhz> we all learn new stuff on daily basis :D
<writer> I only studied Logo Turtle when I was the teacher and very glad to meet Turtles in Edubuntu
<writer> I hope in the next issue Edubuntu I will see StarLogo or NetLogo
<mhz> writer: have you proposed it? do you have arguments? 
* mhz has used none,
<lucasvo> cool, mac book pro
<mhz> ?
<juliux> has somebody the edubuntu flight2 cd image on a faster server?
<writer> mhz: StarLogo & NetLogo for student, not for school. 
<writer> look http://education.mit.edu/starlogo      http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo    
<ogra_ibook> writer, we wont put any duplicates of software into the desktop ... we already have logo... if one of the others is packaged and proven to be better, we can replace kturtle ...
<lucasvo> mhz: the new apple notebook
<mhz> wow! pictures?
<lucasvo> mhz: www.apple.com
<lucasvo> 4x a fast
<lucasvo> intel duo core 
<lucasvo> http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/
<writer> ogra_ibook: No, kturtle for Junior very nice for first steps in programming
* mhz tabbing
<lucasvo> writer: yes, but it uses kde :P
<lucasvo> a malus 
<writer> let be K or library from K
<writer> I dream only about next Edubuntu
<lucasvo> library from K
<lucasvo> writer: your dream is 4 months away
<lucasvo> from reality
<ogra_ibook> in fact the last changes are 4 weeks away 
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: in edubuntu?
<ogra_ibook> after that only bugfixes will be allowed 
<lucasvo> hm, ok
<ogra_ibook> feature freeze is the deadline for all new stuff
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: I wish a powerbutton in ldm!
<ogra_ibook> send me a patch
<lucasvo> ogra_ibook: I don't know how, but you could do it?
<ogra_ibook> if i had the time, yes
<lucasvo> is there some bot here?
<lucasvo> !seen der_paul
<lucasvo> does anybody know him? I think I already knew him
<mhz> lucasvo: I could not see it
<lucasvo> mhz: what?
<lucasvo> http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/whatsinside.html ??
<mhz> apple store nor macbook
<lucasvo> without flash
* mhz tries again
<lucasvo> maybe proxy?
<mhz> lucasvo: the only thing i liked was "Backlit keyboard with ambient light sensors for automatic adjustment of keyboard illumination and screen brightness"
<mhz> for me it's too heavy and big
<lucasvo> it is not small yes
<lucasvo> but if I have to carry my schololbag all the way around these few pounds more wont hurt
<mhz> hhhehehehe
<mhz> indeed
<mhz> that's a reason why I stay with 10 inches Fujitsu
<writer> good by all
<juliux> cu writer 
<juliux> ogra_ibook, can you help me with edubuntu dapper?
<ogra> whats the prob
<juliux> i get an locale error
<juliux> i have installed the base system
<juliux> but after the reboot i get an error about locale
<juliux> and the ubuntu configuration hangs up
<juliux> bzw it freez
<ogra> but you did select english locales as advised ?
<juliux> i select no locales
<juliux> at the bootmenu i select deutsch
<ogra> yes, thats wrong
<juliux> oh
<juliux> ok 
<ogra> read the flight2 release notes
<juliux> hm
<juliux> on my notebook i installed dapper with german
<juliux> ok so i have to install it new right?
<ogra> from the edubuntu flight2 cd ?
<juliux> no from the ubuntu flight2 cd
<juliux> so it is a edubuntu bug?
<ogra> nope, its a locales bug that doesnt show up unless you try to install postgresql :)
<juliux> ah
<juliux> ok i will install it again
<juliux> can i select in the install prozess german?
<juliux> or must i select english?
<ogra> as the notes tell you ...
<juliux> hm and where are the notes?
<ogra> google for release announcement flight2 
<ogra> sorry i'm very busy
<juliux> ok
<Lord_Athur> hi all
<Lord_Athur> mhz, hi, i've installed the ubuntu server... can I change the color of the virtual terminals (tty)? from 
<Lord_Athur> mhz, nobody know it in other channels of ubuntu, bu you're an official user of ubuntu, you must know...
<Lord_Athur> :S
<Lord_Athur> ogra,  hi, i've installed the edubuntu server... can I change the color of the virtual terminals (tty)? from 
<spacey_ki> you can at least set colours of the "herman@ki:~$" in your terminal
<spacey_ki> its the $PS1 var i think
<spacey_ki> in bashrc
<spacey_ki> don't know about the rest
#edubuntu 2007-01-08
<AnRkey> hi all
<AnRkey> does anyone know who the edubuntu ltsp guys devs are?
<LaserJock> AnRkey: yeah
<LaserJock> or rather, who are you looking for specifically?
<LaserJock> LTSP devs, or Edubuntu devs that work on LTSP?
<ewenowho> How do you awake from suspend?
<LaserJock> I just hit the power button on my laptop
<crimsun> I open the lid
<LaserJock> yeah, mine doesn't work that way for some reason
<ewenowho> This is a desktop machine.
<crimsun> LaserJock: then you have an acpi bug.
<crimsun> (perhaps workable-around in Linux/tools)
<crimsun> ewenowho: the "power button" should suffice
<LaserJock> crimsun: I've got a few bugs (not all of which are Ubuntu's fault)
<crimsun> just a few? You're welcome to mine...
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> my audio works only sometimes
<ewenowho> Thanks. I told them that over the phone, and they said that it didn't work, but until I go there and try it myself, I won't know that they followed instructions.
<crimsun> LaserJock: have you filed a bug?
<crimsun> (or have a pointer to an lp#)
<LaserJock> crimsun: no, as it isn't an Ubuntu issue, at least I'm pretty sure it isn't
<AnRkey> LaserJock: sorry for not responging
<AnRkey> responding :D
<AnRkey> i wanna find out more about Muekow
<LaserJock> AnRkey: well, look for LTSP 5 on the ltsp site
<AnRkey> ok
<AnRkey> do you know of any howtos for edgy?
<AnRkey> the one on ubuntu.com is for breezy
<AnRkey> ok i am so tired now that my eyes won't work
<AnRkey> thanks for your help
<AnRkey> later
<LaserJock> darn
<LaserJock> why do they always leave so soon
<crimsun> well, it's past midnight in the UK
<crimsun> not everyone keeps crim hours
<RichEd> morning
<LaserJock> RichEd!
<RichEd> hi LaserJock ... how is the new year treating you ?
<LaserJock> oh, decent
<LaserJock> lots to do
<LaserJock> wish I could get more done
<RichEd> hey cbx33
<RichEd> happy new year
<cbx33> hey RichEd
<RichEd> cbx33: did you get my /msg
<jsgotangco> rodarvus: happy new year!
<RichEd> jsgotangco: and a happy to you too :)
<rodarvus> jsgotangco, happy new year! :)
<jsgotangco> hey RichEd! how's it going?
<RichEd> good ... I'm just peeking out of a holiday email backlog of some great proportion ... and hoping to see daylight soon.
<RichEd> But looking forward to a good uear for open source and *buntu.
<RichEd> *year
<jsgotangco> i will be attending Asia Source II in Jakarta, should be fun, 10 days of FOSS camp for all asians
<cbx33> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6232207.stm
<cbx33> this news makes me very happy
<jsgotangco> optional?
<jsgotangco> bah!
<jsgotangco> make the suffer!
<jsgotangco> =D
<cbx33> get rid of them altogether
<cbx33> they suck
<jsgotangco> wah? kids suck?
<jsgotangco> wow i didnt know mike jennings moved to google recently
<ogra_> yeah, they grabbed him before us apparently
<jsgotangco> yeah i just noticed his change from linked in
<ogra_> you are connected to mike jennings ???
<ogra_> nice :)
<jsgotangco> no no! but a friend from xandros does
<ogra> heh
<jsgotangco> perhaps you want to move to canada and work at xandros hah
<jsgotangco> ok i gotta go ciao!
<ogra> ciao
<bddebian> Heya
<willvdl> highvoltage, what is your CMS of choice? drupal?
<willvdl> cbx33, know of any good OSS conference management tools?
<cbx33> wou already asked me that one willvdl
<cbx33> hehe
<willvdl> did I
<willvdl> ah
<cbx33> unfortunatly the answer hasn't changed
<cbx33> it's still a no
<willvdl> oh dear
* willvdl seeks for someone else to ask again
<willvdl> hey I might be making contact with Cambridge-Hitachi soon
<juliux> willvdl, do you need only one for a schedule?
<willvdl> juliux, it's a big Legal Conference in Nigeria that I'm helping with
<willvdl> working with UN/DESA guy who wants to showcase as much OSS as possible to the ministers
<willvdl> so not just the schedule but as much as possible
<juliux> willvdl, the chaos computer club in germany has a own tool for there conference, i think it is oss
<willvdl> they used pentbarf I think
<juliux> yes pentbarf was the name;)
<willvdl> http://pentabarf.org/Conferences_planned_with_Pentabarf
* juliux know the people who write pentbarf;9
<willvdl> ooooh
<willvdl> now where talking
<willvdl> it is top of my list at the moment...
<cbx33> willvdl, oooh excellent on the Hitachi Cambridge front
<willvdl> juliux, how busy are they? :)
<juliux> willvdl, no idea write them an e-mail;)
<willvdl> We also want to build in some kind of access control into it as well
<willvdl> maybe fingerprint reader/smart-card for physical access to rooms as well as logins for PCs/internet quotas
<cbx33> willvdl, wow
<willvdl> can find the individual tools but looking to integrate
<willvdl> Right, I gotto go home and eat.
<willvdl> Catch you all later
#edubuntu 2007-01-09
<yhan_> hi
<yhan_> I'm trying to setup sound in my ltsp ubuntu, but sound is playing on the server
<yhan_> what's wrong ?
<yhan_> I have set sound_daemon = esd, and sound = true in lts.conf
<yhan_> what could be wrong ?
<yhan_> I'm running breezy
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I wonder if Breezy's LTSP supported sound
<yhan_> I don't have found nothing in the doc
<yhan_> that's why I'm asking here
<yhan_> not supported, thanks anyway
<ogra> there was a doc ... but willvdl recently deleted it ...
<LaserJock> heh
<ogra> well, it was always causing confusion ...
<ogra> even writing "THIS DOC IS FOR BREEZY ONLY!!"  in bold 12pt letters at the top didnt help ....
<ogra> so people often got confused ... and ltsp now had the docs included ....
<ogra> oh how i hate library packaging ...
<bddebian> Heya
* `6og sugests a ban on  jack_wyt until he fixes his client
<RichEd> hey Kamping_Kaiser
<RichEd> happy new year
<Kamping_Kaiser> hallo RichEd , happy new year to you too :)
<RichEd> hi juliux ... greetings for 2007
<juliux> hi RichEd happy new year;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, so... will you be at LCA?
<RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: if my visa comes through ... then yes ... holding thumbs
<Kamping_Kaiser> eek. good luck!
<juliux> cu later
<edgy> Hi, I had a presentation and I want the points on my slide to drop in one by one on click, how can I do this please in ooo?
<Kamping_Kaiser> i sugetst an openoffice channel edgy
<edgy> Kamping_Kaiser: thanks for the tip but I already asked there and there seems to be no one awake now :(
* Kamping_Kaiser doesnt use ooo
<edgy> Kamping_Kaiser: what do you use for presenations? koffice?
<Kamping_Kaiser> edgy, i do eitehr; a set of html pages linked up, or a set of text files ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> only oo.o if i /absolutely must/
<edgy> Kamping_Kaiser: then your audience don't care a lot about effects. you are lucky ;)
<Kamping_Kaiser> edgy, hehe. i have that luck, yes :)
* Kamping_Kaiser afk, reading
<edgy> Kamping_Kaiser: afk stands for what?
<Kamping_Kaiser> away from keyboard
<highvoltage> edubuntugirl: afk is away from keyboard
<edubuntugirl> highvoltage: okay
<RichEd> hi highvoltage
<highvoltage> hi RichEd!
<RichEd> how's 2007 treating you ?
<highvoltage> maybe a bit early to tell, but so far so good :)
<highvoltage> not a very nice message to get on an edubuntu server: http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonanibal/320746793/
<edgy> Kamping_Kaiser: ;)
<RichEd> brb -> reboot
<RichEd> hi ogra ... cbx ...
<ogra> heya
<cbx33> hey RichEd hey ogra
<Kamping_Kaiser> hi
<RichEd> cbx33: all on track for BETT ? any loose ends ?
<cbx33> no I think we're there
<Feral_Kid> Anyone around... I am interested in seeing where the PTB are in incorporating applications from SEUL with edbuntu deployments...
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: I can't answer you direclty, but can you pop me a mail, and I will send to the developer list ?
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> Thanks... I used to use software from SEUL back when I was deploying K12LTSP systems in Los Angeles... I think there needs to be incorporation of some of the application available to the edubuntu arena...
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: great send me details in the email (did you get the /msg) ... what you used it for, how you got hold of it (bundled with K12LTSP or download), and how useful it was to you. The more info we have, the more chance of pushing it faster & further
<jsgotangco> :P
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> I am sending right now...
<RichEd> :)
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> I am still working on the e-mail... I tend to be slightly verbose at time!!! :)
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: that is entirely okay and there is no problem at all in this regard whatsover in any possible regard to the issue discussed and the depth or degree of answer and / or supporting information or details.
<RichEd> alternative answer: np
<RichEd> :)
* Kamping_Kaiser struggles to understand how lams is suppposed to install
<highvoltage> !seen burgandavia
<ubotu> I haven't seen burgandavia recently
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> You aren't located in Canada, are you?
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: Cape Town, South Africa
<Feral_Kid> Ah, no wonder you are so are alert... :) I am in the Los Angeles area, but was doing some early morning brainstorming...
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: the K12LTSP / Edubuntu relationship is good, and we strive to present a similar experience & feature set ... so your comments on your topic and in this area will be appreciated
<RichEd> (Eric Harrison was at our last developer conference, and gave great input) and ogra and he swap & share.
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> Ok, mail should be there in a few seconds... All replies are welcomed...
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: great email ... we're on the same page as you
<RichEd> our next version (April) addresses a number of the issues you mention, and the secondary / high school / university config & application is a top target.
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> Well, I truly believe that if applications taken from SEUL are converted to packages and placed in a repository that will make the battle a lot easier...
<juliux> hi RichEd
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> Are you familiar with SEUL?
<juliux> RichEd, sorry i had to go to university
<RichEd> hey juliux : np ... busy busy busy myself
<juliux> RichEd, ok
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: also, we are looking at a process / guidelines to make information available about supporting and supported applications ... in categories as follows:
<RichEd> [ bundled ]  <- [ repository]  <- [ supported ]  <- [ recommended ]  <- [ reviewed ]  <- [ aware of ] 
<RichEd> So we will welcome any suggestion to put into the pipe line (from right side) and then there will be approval / review criteria to be met to move upstream (to the left)
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: I have to confess that all I know about Seul is that is was a venue for one of the olympics.
<RichEd> I'll load the link and look around. If I put it in the "pipe-line" perhaps you would be able to do a review for us ( a few paragraphs explaining what it is, how it works, what sort of system spec / impact it has or needs )
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> I was looking at some of the applications... As things go, I see that there as been a significant drop in on-going support of application, but I am happy that is still exists...
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: I loaded the site, and I see that it looks like a catalogue, and not a single application. So ignore any cvomments above that clash with that view.
<RichEd> w.r.t. ^^ do you mean Edubuntu support or SEUL support ?
<Feral_Kid> No, I was talking about SEUL site...
<RichEd> great ... phew ...
<Feral_Kid> I was just looking at some of the applications and the last time they were updated...
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> Nevertheless, you will see that there are some great applications that exist on that site...
<RichEd> Feral_Kid: my view is that we need to build a user support community where the people using the applications can offer peer-to-peer support (user support) down to a teacher level.
<RichEd> If we can show the developer community behind the applications that (ed)ubuntu recommend their applications, and provide a support forum for our users, then it should provide more reason for them to stay up to date, and make any adjustments we feel are needed for stability / security.
<RichEd> The first few applications we are gong to chuck into the pipeline are:
<RichEd> * Moodle
<RichEd> * LAMs
<RichEd> * SchoolTool
<RichEd> So if an application stalls in the pipeline I showed above, then we'll let the developers know what and why it hit a blockage, and ask if we can all work to get it past the hurdles.
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> I was just reading that UCLA is going to  Moodle for their courseware...
<Feral_Kid> Going to use Moodle I meant...
<RichEd> Yep. We are going to use Moodle as a base for an Edulinux project.
<RichEd> The MOTU guys have some Security concerns preventing us from giving it our full blessing, so this will be a test case to see if these sorts of issues can be resolved by cooperation.
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> Well, this all came about because I gave my 14 year old daughter a machine... I started with Ubuntu Edgy, and then did a switch over to EdU.... But I found myself working hard to make it functional for her... There is only some many times I can get a 14 year old to look at TuxMath and TuxType... So that started me trying to add some useful apps for her to use...
<RichEd> That is a mirror of our experience & feedback ... historically the prioject had to start somewhere, and that initial target was:
<RichEd> LTSP Server & Workstation Desktop for Junior School Classroom.
<RichEd> Now we're expanding to other levels of schools, and also to present the view that you can have Edubuntu on the Desktop and Ubuntu in the National Server Farm ... one o/s ... one community ... one knowledge & support base ... different user flavours.
<RichEd> So we are looking for people who have sourced and tried applications on their own, and found them useful and productive with a low hassle factor, and we then want to add them into the pipeline above.
<RichEd> The next version (Feisty in Arpil) will have one install CD and then a downloadable .iso Add-On CD which will allow for a broader installation choice.
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> Yes, that is a good move right there...
<RichEd> Also, dynamic menus that check the user's group status, and load an apropriate menu according to the class level. i.e. a 8 year old kid and a 18 year old kid will get different menus when loging on to the same machine.
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> But the goes back to the need to have applications for the 18 old, that is still academic driven...
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> And I think that there is a good number of application available from SEUL... Just requires them being build and packaged...
<Feral_Kid> RichEd> I might be a good idea to get a person or two to wander through SEUL and see what applications are useful...
<RichEd> Yep. That's the whole pipeline theory. If the application is good (technically) and well adopted (good user base) we can focus some resources onto it. We've got techies who are desperate for input from educators as to where to focus.
<cbx33> Damn - "I Just Lost The Game"
* RichEd thanks cbx33 for playing, and askes him to insert another quarter
<cbx33> RichEd do you know what "The Game" is?
<RichEd> that hunt the photo person stalking thing ?
<cbx33> losethegame.com
<cbx33> congrats - you are now playing "The Game" ;)
<cbx33> I hate my friend Andy for telling me about the game....
<cbx33> i keep losing
<ThomasWaldmann> moin
<ThomasWaldmann> cbx33: may i query you on some edubuntu wiki stuff?
<cbx33> sure
* RichEd is out to collect air tickets
<juliux> cbx33, did you know if it possible to use a SUN as edubuntu server?
<cbx33> hmmm
<cbx33> I'm not sure
<juliux> ogra, ?
<ogra> juliux, an opteron sun will work right away ... on sparc its untested
<juliux> ogra, thxs
<juliux> ogra, happy new year btw
<ogra> i'd appreciate test feedback and bugreports for sparc though
<ogra> juliux, thanks, same to you :)
<cbx33> ;)
<juliux> ogra, perhaps i will test it after my examens
<ogra> you got a sparc ?
<juliux> ogra, 20 sparcs;)
<juliux> ogra, a frend of my has a lot of sparcs
<cbx33> cool
<juliux> and other speical hardware;)
<ogra> nice
<juliux> like an alpha computer
<ogra> i knoiw some debian people try to get ltsp on sparc running, but havent got any feedback yet
<ogra> oooh, i love aplhas
<ogra> *alphas too :)
<cbx33> hey ogra howz it going
<cbx33> I apologise in advance I may miss tomorrows meeting
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Got a (hopefully) quick question:  what's an easy way to create large numbers of users at once?
<cbx33> as I'll be at BETT all day
<juliux> ogra, i think he as 30-40 computers in his 10qm room, but only 3 computers are  running at the moment;)
<cbx33> wow
<cbx33> I used to have 9-10 when I was about 17
<cbx33> the college used to throw them out so I used to take them home
<juliux> most of them are from the university, they give it for less money away if they didn't need them longer
<cberlo> cberlo: Around here, older computers can be had for free, if you know where to ask.  Computers for Schools.
<cberlo> Doh -- didn't mean to preface that to myself....  :)
<juliux> cberlo, if your usernames are user1, user2, user,3 you can do that via a shell skript;)
<cberlo> juliux: I have a list of names (John Smith, Jane Doe, Adbul Mehta-Jones, etc.) that needs to be formatted first, then make into usernames and accounts will passwords....
<cberlo> make/made, will/with
<cberlo> Just can't communicate today!
<juliux> cberlo, sounds like a job for python,bash,perl or wathever;)
<cberlo> juliux: I have a bit working with a bash script and some awk, but I'm getting stuck on processing the names.  I go through the list, and it keeps separating the first and last names (for username in $( cat usernames.txt ); do echo $username; done).  Roughly, that's the code I've got -- some awk processing and whatnot in there, too.
<cberlo> I know what parameters I want to send to useradd; I know I can use chpasswd to set the passwords afterwards.  I'm just stuck at getting "John" and "Smith" together in one item for processing.
<cberlo> Where do I paste here?  I forgot.  I can put all of the code I have so far, if anyone wants to have a look...
<cberlo> !paste
<ubotu> paste is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (be sure to give the URL of your paste)
<juliux> cberlo, is there no charakter in your list that shows here is the end of a nem?
<cberlo> \n is about it
<juliux> so you have every name in one line
<cberlo> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/943/
<cberlo> Yep.  One name per line.
<cberlo> the newIDs part is basically to find what IDs to give each new user (I was planning to use newusers command initially, so I needed that).
<cberlo> The list comes from a couple of administrators, and sometimes contains invalid characters, so I used sed to delete them.  I've also figured out a basic routine to reformat each name pair into our account naming standard.  Only catch now is to get FirstName and LastName to process together.
<cberlo> And a minor thing (although definitely an annoyance) not related to this question:  when I'm using vi, when do the arrow keys no longer work in Edgy?  I get C, D, B, etc. when I try to move around in my file while in insert mode...
<ogra> use vim, not vi
<ogra> or install the full vim instead of the vim-tiny package we ship due to space constraints
<cbx33> vi seems to work ok here
<ogra> not on fresh installs
<cbx33> ahhh ok
<cberlo> ogra: Okay, so if I install the full vim, everything should be good?
<ogra> if you use vim-tiny the vi command will behave like a native vi and not accept arrow keys
<ogra> if you start it with the vim command it switches to the vim mode
<cberlo> Sounds reasonable.  Thanks.
<ogra> it gained us 8MB we needed in edgy ... sorry for the annoyance, even i triggeren that change for ubuntu i'm not happy with it ...
<ogra> *triggered
<cberlo> ogra: So am I to understand that you guys don't have a mass user creation utility for Edubuntu yet?
<ogra> nope
<cbx33> it is planned isn't it ogra ?
<ogra> but there are tons of scripts
<ogra> not for feisty yet ... but we'll have them eventually
<cberlo> orgra:  Okay, when I'm done, who do I submit the script to, or where can I get a script that already works so I don't reinvent the wheel?
<ogra> google ?
<cberlo> ogra: Okay, but that mostly gets me newusers, and I don't want to use that utility.
<ogra> http://www.google.de/search?q=linux+mass+user+creation+script&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=com.ubuntu:de:official&client=firefox-a
<cberlo> I want to start with a list of names (as mentioned) and wind up with unique accounts.
<ogra> ;)
<cberlo> Okay, i'll do more reading.  It's all in how you word it!  :)
<cbx33> indeed it is
<ogra> put your users in a file ...
<ogra> #!/bin/sh
<ogra> users=`cat userlist`
<ogra> for user in $users; do
<ogra> adduser $user
<ogra> done
<ogra> ...
<ogra> the simplest one you can do ...
<ogra> (indeed for GECOS data you need a bit of awk and split lines etc ...)
<cberlo> Okay, that's similar to what I've done already.  I'm getting the first and last name separated, though.
<bddebian> Heya
<cberlo> So no quick solution for the FName, LName problem?
<TeePOG> good day
<TeePOG> where would be a good place to ask / suggest a new education project? I have an aquaintance who has a couple good ideas, but no programming / web dev knowledge... he's looking for some ppl who can do non-profit dev work (probably LAMP) in their spare time
<ogra> TeePOG, probably the edubuntu-devel mailing list
<TeePOG> cool ogra, thx
<TeePOG> how have you been btw?
<ogra> fine thanks
<ogra> just preparing the next milestone CD ... (herd2)
<TeePOG> indeed... still April?
<ogra> yep
<TeePOG> you guys on track?
<ogra> as usual
<ogra> indeed :)
<TeePOG> lekker
<TeePOG> looking forward to checking it out
<ogra> :)
<TeePOG> but ogra, this project is by its very nature non-distro specific... even platform-independent. which is why i'm thinking LAMP
<TeePOG> will TSF still help?
<TeePOG> in your opinion of course
<TeePOG> hi again
<TeePOG> ogra: can you paste what you got from me last?
<cberlo> Hi folks.  Came up with a pretty good solution for my mass user creation (thanks for the leads earlier).  Anyone interested can see the script at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/962/
<cberlo> Basically, takes users as Firstname Lastname pairs (one per line) and makes users out of them.  Does basic checking for duplicates and makes unique accounts out of duplicate entries.
<cberlo> Now, anyone want to tear it apart and make it better?  :)
<Laser_away> It sure seems like I'm in the wrong time zone for Edubuntu
<LaserJock> all the fun stuff happens while I'm gone I think
<ogra> just change your sleep schedule ;)
<ogra> TeePOG, "<TeePOG> in your opinion of course" was the last i got
<LaserJock> ogra: well, I try, but my wife doesn't like it when I'm in bed typing on the laptop at 3:00am ;-)
<TeePOG> yah, that's what i have as well
<TeePOG> we have a wonky adsl line here
<ogra> LaserJock, just shift her as well :)
<LaserJock> ogra: haha ;-)
<ogra> LaserJock, seen that ? http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2007/01/google-and-imara-project.html
<LaserJock> ogra: no I hadn't, amazing
<ogra> LaserJock, wuld you mind to put http://packages.debian.org/experimental/misc/marble on your todo for a sync to universe ?
<LaserJock> ogra: np
<ogra> thanks :)
<LaserJock> ogra: I think once we can include Java apps by default we'll really be able to do a lot more
<ogra> yeah
<LaserJock> there's some really good stuff out there
<LaserJock> I see it all the time in the sciences
<ogra> feisty+1 will rock :)
<LaserJock> :-)
<ogra> java should be on the CD by then
<LaserJock> yeah, I hope so
<LaserJock> ogra: why do we need marble?
<ogra> we dont need it ...
<ogra> but its there and makes a good impression
<ogra> so we should have it available
<LaserJock> Universe?
<ogra> for now, yes
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> if there is demand for main or we hav plenty space on the second CD then we can include it as well
<LaserJock> ogra: well, marble seems to build and install fine. I'll have to wait for a bit to test it out though
<ogra> afai "white" in -motu already tested it ... he pinged me a week or so ago
<LaserJock> k
<ogra> but he didnt answer my pings since ....
<LaserJock> !seen RichEd
<ubotu> I last saw RichEd (n=richard@dsl-241-111-169.telkomadsl.co.za) 1h 50m 32s ago, quiting: Remote closed the connection
<LaserJock> darn
<LaserJock> ogra: do you know of any good educational software directory sites?
<ogra> http://richtech.ca/seul/ ?
<ogra> (thats a schoolforge mirror iirc, you can look ar schoolforge.org as well )
<LaserJock> ah, that's pretty good
<LaserJock> since there isn't  education section in the repo it makes it a bit more difficult to spot edu packages
<LaserJock> we don't have a page like https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuScientists yet do we?
<ogra> nope
<ogra> but we probably shoudl
<LaserJock> ogra: bug #78601
<ogra> yay, thanks
<LaserJock> np
<LaserJock> that's really a pretty cool app for as small as it is
<ogra> yep
<LaserJock> great for geography at least
<LaserJock> brb, mac has to install updates :/
<LaserJock> re
<caris_mere> Good evening
<AnRkey> i need help with my dhcp on an ubuntu box running ltsp. here is my info http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/976/
<AnRkey> can any1 help?
<AnRkey> any1?
<LaserJock> so dhcp isn't working?
<LaserJock> I assume :-)
<ogra> you need to call the initscript
<ogra> dhcpd3 restart wont work ;)
<LaserJock> ogra: that's seems kinda buggy
<ogra> LaserJock, ?
<LaserJock> shouldn't dhcpd3 restart work?
<ogra> that you have to call /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart instead ?
<LaserJock> oh, that's what I thought you meant didn't work
<ogra> well, indeed you could patch all server binaries to call the initscript
<LaserJock> nvm
<ogra> ;)
<ogra> AnRkey, apart from that you need a statically configured interface with an ip of the 192.168.1.X range
<ogra> so dhcpd knows on which interface it shall serve
<AnRkey> could you be more "noob" friendly
<AnRkey> ? :)
<ogra> did you use edubuntu ? then all interfaces etc should be configured properly ...
<ogra> else edit /etc/network/interfaces
<ogra> man interfaces has a description of the options
<AnRkey> no i am using regular ubuntu
<AnRkey> i am doing research for starting a company
<AnRkey> the M$ costs don't excite me to much so i am looking at setting up everything using ubuntu
<AnRkey> i am setting it up on ubuntu and not edubuntu for a learning curve :D
<LaserJock> ogra: with EdubuntuOnTwoCds we are going to have just 3 options - young children, highschool, university. Is that right?
<LaserJock> or are the tasks up for debate?
<ogra> that are the tasks
<LaserJock> so would we have metapackages for those or can we do it all from g-a-i?
<LaserJock> and do we need a seed for the second cd?
<ogra> AnRkey, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/983/
<ogra> add that to your /etc/network/interfaces (with the right ethX interface indeed)
<juliux> ogra, did you have time on 17th and 18th februar?
<ogra> juliux, nope
<juliux> ogra, shit, we have a room for the fasching event
<ogra> i'm flying to oslo on the 21st and have some stuff to do the week before
<juliux> ogra, ok
<ogra> i wont have much time this year ... travelling nearly every month for at least a week
<juliux> enjoy it
<ogra> so if i want to do development alongside i have no spare time at all
<AnRkey> ogra: i can't quite figure out whats wrong with my /etc/network/interfaces file
* juliux is sitting the whole time in dresden
<ogra> well, i'm not fancy of travelling anymore after i did it for two years now
<AnRkey> ogra: this is my /etc/network/interfaces >> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/
<AnRkey> could you slap some sense into me?
<ogra> just use the values i just posted for your setup
<ogra> you can copy and paste it ... and adjust the interface name if its not eth0
<LaserJock> ogra: man, that's a lot of travel. :/
<ogra> LaserJock, yes and it gets worse ... we take more and more responsibilities with edubuntu for other projects ... that sadly requires in-person meetings ...
<ogra> anyway, i'll have to cae for some other stuff now ... bbl
<AnRkey> ogra: thanks i will give that a go
<ogra> btw, CD testing for herd2 will take place the next two days ... keep your isos up to date if you want to help testing ;)
<LaserJock> ogra: I've got the new vmware for intel macs now
<LaserJock> I should be able to do some testing I think
<LaserJock> but I don't have an amd64 or ppc :/
<caris_mere> Anybody here using LOGO programming with kids?
<caris_mere> I am having problems installing a program in edubuntu
<LaserJock> which one?
<caris_mere> ucblogo
<caris_mere> I have it one machine, but the other gives errors about libraries...
<caris_mere> but both computers are the same
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> caris_mere: what libraries?
<caris_mere> Laserjock: I am not sure which libraries are having the problems, but these are the ones required: libc6, libc6.1, libice6, libncurses5, libsm6, libx11-6
<caris_mere> Laserjock: actually I recall there being something about the x libraries that didn't work
<AnRkey> so... ogra: still can't get my dhcp going
<AnRkey> can u help?
<AnRkey> Please please please for the sake of my poodle, help me
<LaserJock> I can't really help, I've never run an LTSP server
<LaserJock> but you should try emailing the edubuntu-users list
<LaserJock> as right now many people are asleep
<AnRkey> but that makes me sad
<AnRkey> bah
<AnRkey> thanks anyways LaserJock
<LaserJock> well, I'm sorry I can't do more for you
<LaserJock> but the mailing list has lots of people
<LaserJock> ogra: if you have a chance can you make sure you've gotten the email I just sent to edubuntu-devel, thanx
<ogra> LaserJock, dansguardian is no option for main ... (flaky license)
<ogra> misi should in any case have jokosher (i'll wite a MIR if i find the time)
<ogra> s/misi/music
<ogra> what about drgeo
<ogra> ?
<LaserJock> ah yeah, drgeo
<ogra> apart from that , great list ...
<LaserJock> the science/math stuff I'm pretty ok with
<LaserJock> the other stuff I'm much less confident about
<LaserJock> I was just trolling about
<ogra> lets wait what people add :)
<LaserJock> yeah, I figure I'll let people add a bunch
<LaserJock> then I'll widdle down to what's likely to get past pitti ;-)
<ogra> heh, and Mithrandir :)
<LaserJock> I'd really like to find some more teacher tools
<ogra> there was one for scheduling ...
<ogra> and for grade statistics ... i have to look them up
<ogra> bibshelf would also be a good candidate ... its a neat book database software
<LaserJock> oh, that is probably a good idea
#edubuntu 2007-01-10
<harrywwc> greetings - had a quick look and the download site, and some of the mirrors - what's the MD5SUM of the edgy-dvd-i386.iso? I grabbed the MD5SUMS file that was with it, but the contents are for "feisty-dvd-*.iso" - and the sums don't match (of course ;')
<harrywwc> ok... if someone has an answer, would they please email to "harrywwc@yahoo.com.au" - TiA - .h
<kgoetz> !seen riched
<ubotu> I last saw RichEd (n=richard@dsl-241-111-169.telkomadsl.co.za) 12h 43m 41s ago, quiting: Remote closed the connection
<kgoetz> mmm ok
* kgoetz notes this jboss thing isnt in the repos... wonder if its in backports
<kgoetz> its not... oh well
<kgoetz> hi RichEd
<RichEd> hi karl
<kgoetz> how are you?
<RichEd> well thanks ... a trifle warm 23 degrees and it is not even 9:00 am yet
<kgoetz> hehe. its about 36 outside atm :|
* kgoetz is trying to get the dependancies for lams installed.
<kgoetz> RichEd: i have jboss (a lams dependancy) "installed" (untar and go on the basic level), and i'm being stopped by this bug (hope its a real bug...): http://launchpad.net/bugs/78657
* kgoetz afk dinner
<RichEd> brb - reboot
<kgoetz> back
<Feral_Kid> Good morning all...
<kgoetz> hi mate
<RichEd> hi Feral_Kid
<RichEd> kgoetz: will check out the bug issue when I get back ...
<RichEd> please put up that link again ?
* RichEd -> collecting passport
<kgoetz> RichEd: i'm just looking into it atm.
<kgoetz> http://launchpad.net/bugs/78657 <- i'm just downloading the source to check it out
<kgoetz> hi ogra :)
<Feral_Kid> Sorry, was just making some tea and playing on skype...
<kgoetz> np :)
* kgoetz realises this is an ubuntu chan, and skype is not frowned on... i was about to give you a going over ;)
<RichEd> ogra: ping
<RichEd> rodarvus: ping
<kgoetz> wb RichEd
<kgoetz> hi rockprincess
<ogra> pong
<ogra> where do we go ?
<Feral_Kid> Alrighty.. Finished playing with the firewall for a few minutes... So what is the topic of the day?
<rockprincess> hey kgoetz ;)
<RichEd> hi rockprincess ...
<RichEd> edubuntu meetring in 1 hour
<rockprincess> hey RichEd!!! ;)
<RichEd> *meeting
<kgoetz> in -meeting? for how long?
<RichEd> should be 1 hour ... may spill over a bit longer
<Feral_Kid> Well, that would be 4AM for me... Sounds like a good time...
<RichEd> I've got a another meeting so will see you guys in an hour if you are awake.
<kgoetz> ok.
<Feral_Kid> Anyone bringing coffee and donuts?
<rockprincess> hehe ;)
<rodarvus> RichEd, pong
<rodarvus> good morning
<RichEd> hi rodarvus
<RichEd> see /msg
<rodarvus> sorry, daughter school took longer than expected
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 2 mins ======
<gnomefreak> RichEd: from the topic it already started
<RichEd> gnome ... that's the meeting bot :)
<ogra> gnomefreak, ubugtu switches topic ten mins in advance ;)
<RichEd> ping ogra
<caris_mere> I am having trouble installing a program on edubuntu
<ogra> RichEd, pong
<RichEd> msg
<rpereir1> caris_mere: What kind of program?
<caris_mere> it says: error: dependency is not satisfiable: xlibs
<ogra> xlibs doesnt exist since two releases anymore ... what are you tryinbg to install there ?
<caris_mere> ucblogo
<caris_mere> the thing is, I was able to install the program on another edubuntu computer
<rpereir1> caris_mere: The actual version of ucblogo, does not depend on xlibs.... Maybe your database is outdated...
<ogra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/devel/ucblogo.html doesnt depend on xlibs
<rpereir1> caris_mere: Are you  using edgy?
<caris_mere> no, dapper
<ogra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/devel/ucblogo.html neither
<rpereir1> caris_mere: In dapper, doesn't use xlibs too
<rpereir1> ogra: :-)
<ogra> libx11-6 replaces that dep
<rpereir1> Did you try:  sudo apt-get update ?
<caris_mere> will try now
<caris_mere> I didn't get it with apt-get, because it doesn't find it
<caris_mere> I just downloaded it online
<ogra> heh
<ogra> that breaks indeed ...
<rpereir1> Yeap.
<ogra> just enable universe and install it from synaptic or apt-get
<caris_mere> ok
<ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu might help
<caris_mere> I understand about repositories, but I never know in which to look
<caris_mere> I had the same problem yesterday when I was trying to find libxine-extracodecs :-)
<ogra> just enable all of the official ones and use synaptic ;)
<rockprincess> what does ucblogo do?
<ogra> caris_mere, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats
<caris_mere> it allows you to program in LOGO language
<ogra> the docs have all the step by step guides you need ;)
<caris_mere> ogra: thanks
<caris_mere> Does anybody know of any other good educational programs for elementary?
<ogra> gcompris is already installed ...
<ogra> have a look at childsplay ...
<caris_mere> yep
<caris_mere> ok
<ogra> its similar but has other learning games included
<ogra> squeak (from multiverse) is also very popular
<caris_mere> with gcompris, does your chess area work...
<caris_mere> mine always says it needs gnuchess, but when I install that it still doesn't work
<willvdl> juliux,my mail is struggling to get out. might have to try again later :|
<juliux> willvdl, np
<Feral_Kid> Wow LOGO... Nothing like turtle graphics...
<Feral_Kid> To find some applications... Might I point you to www.seul.org
<Feral_Kid> Does anyone know if there is a torrent available for edubuntu 6.10 (Edgy)?
<Feral_Kid> Strike that question, I found one that available...
<bddebian> Heya
<nixternal> ogra_: the only thing I have in the repos is the Handbook. I am guessing the other docs are elsewhere which I don't know where that "here" is though
<nixternal> if you know where they are, and I can get a copy, I can put them in the repos and they can be maintained from there
<ogra_> nixternal, there should also be "about edubuntu" and the firefox startpage
<Andre_Guilhon> Can anybody tell me if Edubuntu has translation to brazilian portuguese?
<Andre_Guilhon> Just found it!!
<festuc> ltsp in edubuntu can server a hard clients?
<highvoltage> festuc: what would you like to serve to the hard clients?
<highvoltage> (or fat clients)
<festuc> i have a 11 machines
<festuc> all of them are exactly the same
<festuc> y want put server in one, and de oters run diskless
<festuc> IWant :P
<highvoltage> ah. so you just want to use regular PC's as thin clients?
<highvoltage> that is possible, yes.
<festuc> yes
<highvoltage> they need a PXE client, version 1 or newer
<highvoltage> or you can make floppies using etherboot floppies
<festuc> moterboard has a nforce whit pxe enabled, yes
<festuc> :D
<highvoltage> that makes it easy
<highvoltage> then you can do a default edubuntu server install, and the clients will boot if they are on the same network
<festuc> how configure server for server fat clients, is easy?
<highvoltage> it is not supported in the current version of edubuntu
<festuc> ?
<festuc> why?
<highvoltage> it is very possible that the next release will have partial support for that.
<highvoltage> because it requires an authentication server, which we didn't have yet in the previous release.
<festuc> damm
<festuc> i need to buy a 10 harddisk more?
<highvoltage> nope
<highvoltage> you can boot those machines as thin clients still
<LaserJock> nixternal: the about edubuntu and firefox page and I think release notes were in the doc team repo
<LaserJock> willvdl!
<willvdl> hey
<willvdl> LaserJock, ogra asked in the meeting about getting an svn checkout for edubuntu-docs
<willvdl> what would this entail?
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
* willvdl checks logs quick
<willvdl> LAserJock: <ogra>	could someone from our doc team prepare a svn checkout of selected docs i casn put into the edubuntu-docs package ? so we can get up to speed with the packaging after herd2 ?
<LaserJock> ah, so we need edubuntu-doc packaging
<willvdl> yeah. What would be ready?
<willvdl> what would go in it?
<willvdl> Handbook, release-notes & about-edubuntu?
<LaserJock> I guess
<LaserJock> nothing is finished that I know of
<LaserJock> nixternal: pingy pingy
<ogra_> LaserJock, i dont want anything *finished* ... i want something thats finished by release ... but we need to get up to speed with the package to have it done before string freeze (i'd rather have it ready before feature freeze even, like i'd like to see an artwork concept before that date)
<ogra_> s/date/date as well/
<LaserJock> ogra_: ok, well I can get an edubuntu-docs package ready
<ogra_> we have an edubuntu-docs package
<ogra_> its just empty
<ogra_> but idling in universe since two releases
<LaserJock> ah
<LaserJock> well, then I can freshen it up, etc if you want
<LaserJock> I should write a script (as dholbach has done for ubuntu-docs) that does the checkout and moving of files
<LaserJock> are we replacing ubuntu-docs or supplimenting it?
<ogra_> supplimenting
<LaserJock> k
<ogra_> LaserJock, do you see any of my 5 mails i sent during the day to your 2CD thread on -devel ?
<LaserJock> no :(
<ogra_> (probably only my evo is broken and simply doesnt show the,)
<ogra_> *them
<ogra_> gmbl ...
<ogra_> i see them passing my server and being delivered to lists.ubuntu.com :(
<LaserJock> the aren't on the lists.ubuntu.com archives
<cbx33> hi all
<cbx33> the first day of BETT was amazing
<willvdl> excellent
<cbx33> willvdl those leaflets look sweeeeet
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<LaserJock> hmm, me wonder's if cbx33 is really Lisa ;-)
<cbx33> LaserJock!!
<cbx33> hahah
<cbx33> no i just stole her pc
<cbx33> we're trying to install a new printer cartridge
<cbx33> and it's not working
<cbx33> how dumb am I
<cbx33> ping highvoltage
<willvdl> cbx33, glad you got them
<cbx33> it was AWESOME
<cbx33> jono and I were run ragged
<cbx33> will have a blog entry by end of day
<cbx33> the kids LOVED IT
<cbx33> they ticked off Microsoft ;)
<cbx33> i have lots of stories to tell ;)
<LaserJock> hehe
<LaserJock> sounds good
<cbx33> hey peeps I'm back
<LaserJock> you weren't gone long
<cbx33> no
<nixternal> LaserJock: pongy pongy :)
<LaserJock> nixternal: have you found the Edubuntu docs?
<nixternal> ya
<cbx33> hey nixternal
<nixternal> heya cbx33
<cbx33> I didn't think LaserJock spemlt that bad
<cbx33> smelt
<nixternal> i found the sticks in the chicago land area today
<nixternal> nothing but farms
<LaserJock> heh
<willvdl> cbx33 pong
<LaserJock> were did Oliver go?
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> ogra!
<ogra> :(
<ogra> herd2 is broken ...
<LaserJock> testing didn't go well?
<LaserJock> ah, bummer
<Laser_away> ogra: are all the tests for LTSP?
<Laser_away> ogra: is testing LiveCD and Workstation installs needed at all?
<ogra> yes
#edubuntu 2007-01-11
<ogra> sigh ...
<Laser_away> :/
<ogra> and no vagrantc in #ltsp to at least yell at him for breking it ...
<ogra> *breaking
<Laser_away> heh
<ogra> and if that wouldnt be enough, seems lists.ubuntu.com throws away all my mails to edubuntu-devel ...
<ogra> fun
<Laser_away> ogra: just edubuntu-devel
<ogra> yes
<ogra> elmo has no idea why, but can see that mailman just throws away all my mails
<Laser_away> that seems very weird
<ogra> yeah
<ogra> i can mail to all other lists
<nixternal> ogra: i have updated the docs in the doc repo svn, ready for checkout and to be made into a package :)
<highvoltage> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> highvoltage: pong
<LaserJock> geeze, right when I'm going to bed :/
<LaserJock> all the fun happens when I'm asleep
<Feral_Kid> Does anyone know how to get XDMCP working correctly... I finally motivated myself away from a full Ubuntu 6.10 load and fully loaded Edubuntu Edgy... The problem that I have right now is that I can't get XDMCP working correctly...
* RichEd is off to a meeting
<Feral_Kid> ogra> Back for another day of excitement? :)
<bddebian> Heya
<kevin> Greetings, I am trying to upgrade edubuntu 6.06 to 6.10. When I run gksu "update-manager -c" it says "your system is up to date" with no upgrade message available. Anyone know how I can fix this?
<ogra_> you need dapper-updates enabled iirc to get the newer update-manager package first
<ogra_> there is an updates page somewhere on help.ubuntu.com
<kevin> I have all the latest updates for 6.60, is that what you mean?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> look at the docs
<ogra_> it should tell you everything
<kevin> I hae the latest update-manager package
<kevin> have
<ogra_> from dapper-updates ?
<kevin> from update-manager, I also checked in Software Properties, and it tells me I have the one that it says I need on the upgrade page
<kevin> not sure what you mean exactly by dapper-updates?
<ogra_> the dapper-updates repository
<kevin> isn't that what update-manager uses?
<ogra_> no
<ogra_> you can try to get hold of mvo in #ubuntu-devel, he can probably shed more light on it (he maintains update-manager)
<kevin> ok, thanks, I also checked my sources.list and have two entries for dapper-updates there
<ogra_> ok
<ogra_> then it looks like update-manager is really at fault
<willvdl> ping highvoltage
<willvdl> ogra, which are nice cheap thin-clients (terminals) available?
<ogra> nice -> disklessworkstations.com
<ogra> cheap -> build yourself
<willvdl> that's it. thanks
<willvdl> forgot about that link
<highvoltage> pong willvdl
<LaserJock> afternoon Edu people
<gnomefreak> afternoon LaserJock
<willvdl> evening
<willvdl> ogra, know anyone with expereince in setting up internet cafe on ubuntu?
<cbx33> hey willvdl
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<willvdl> hey
<willvdl> how's BETT
<LaserJock> darn, somehow I think I had something to ask you willvdl
* LaserJock 's brain doesn't do the whole memory thing well
<cbx33> BETT is awesome
<cbx33> read blog ;)
<willvdl> urk, url again?
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/wordpress
<LaserJock> cbx33: puppylinux is only 80MB?
<LaserJock> willvdl: it's also on planet.ubuntu.com
<willvdl> reading :)
<willvdl> LaserJock, I know embedded designers who get it down even smaller
<cbx33> true
<cbx33> but that's for a full Xorg server
<cbx33> and apps too
<cbx33> it was pretty impressive
<cbx33> all apps loaded up in under a second
<LaserJock> well, I've tried DSL before
<LaserJock> I've wanted to find something middle of the road
<cbx33> puppy was so fast.....i see from a post we used to have a load to RAM choice
<cbx33> do we still have that?
<cbx33> http://www.sungate.co.uk/?p=140
<cbx33> bbl
<willvdl> ciao all
<bimberi> RichEd: ping
#edubuntu 2007-01-12
<LaserJock> cbx33: what are you doing here? :-)
<cbx33> hey LaserJock
<cbx33> um
<cbx33> waiting to go to bed
<somerville32> Is it possible to use VNC to create a session remotely to a LTSP server?
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<LaserJock> an LTSP server is like an ordinary Ubuntu box so if you have a vncserver (vino perhaps) you can vnc to it
* somerville32 nods.
<abackos> hi
<abackos> my installation stop at Buildin LTSP chroot on Edubuntu 6.10...why? thanks
<bimberi> i recall that it can take a long time.  Is there still Disk activity?
<bimberi> abackos: hi btw :)
<abackos> activity? i try to install edubuntu 6.10
<abackos> now it's stopped
<abackos> sorry for my english
<bimberi> abackos: how long has it been stopped for?
<abackos> i don't know...2min maybe
<abackos> ah
<abackos> the hd?
<abackos> never
<abackos> i have used until 5min ago on an other pc
<bimberi> it does take some time - give it a while longer
<abackos> is edubuntu 7.04 alpha1 out?
<LaserJock> well, we are almost releasing Herd2
<abackos> i need for tomorrow
<abackos> can you link me herd1 please?
<abackos> or can i skip Build LTSP chroot?
<bimberi> abackos: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/feisty/herd-1/
<abackos> you think this work?
<bimberi> abackos: it shouldn't have major bugs, however Feisty is alpha so...
<abackos> if i skip Build LTSP chroot ...can i resolve later?
* bimberi isn't sure
<bimberi> i think so - there is a command to do it, i just don't recall it at the moment
<LaserJock> I really don't think you want to install Herd1
<abackos> can i skip "Build LTSP chroot"?
<abackos> thank you guys ;) i'll try to install another distro...sorry but i don't have many time now
<abackos> see ya
<LaserJock> ok
<bimberi> heh, 'sudo ltsp-build-client --arch i386'
<Loopstar> Hey Can anyone help me with LTSP
<Kamping_Kaiser> Loopstar, ask your question, and when someone can help they will talk to you
<Loopstar> Thanks Kamping - Havent used IRC before. Have looked at LTSP breifly previously but would like to know if Edubuntu as a LTSP does the server need to be dhcp server or is it to messy if another device provides ip's.
<Kamping_Kaiser> as long as the otehr server can tell cliens to boot the ltsp server, any system can do dhcp
<Loopstar> Cheers
<Kamping_Kaiser> np
<jsgotangco> ogra: im looking for a new laptop would you recommend something like a macbook? heh
<ogra> jsgotangco, sytem76 ;)
<ogra> *system76
<jsgotangco> heh we don't have that here
<jsgotangco> either i get something cheap from the taiwan brands or good US brand or a better one like Apple's
<ogra> i usually just buy the cheapest one at the next discounter ...
<ogra> but then i usually buy a new one every year
<jsgotangco> heh well im not as "rich" as you haha
<ogra> well, i pay ~600 once a year instead of 1200 every two years
<jsgotangco> well you have a point though
<jsgotangco> since we're pretty much power users
<ogra> right
<willvdl> ogra, must admit, wouldn't mind stealing your laptop
<ogra> and i wouldnt cry much about loosing the HW since it was cheap ... only using my work would bother me there
<ogra> :)
<ogra> s/using/loosing/
<jsgotangco> i wish i have enough space here at home to have 1 more desktop
<willvdl> I love my acer but it lacks suspend and power management
<jsgotangco> maybe i should move to a place similar to ogra's
<ogra> just get a powerful laptop ;)
<jsgotangco> acers aren't really that great with power management
<ogra> feel free we have at least 4 empty rooms we dont use at all here
<ogra> acers are crap
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> i almost bought an acer ferrari
<ogra> i had two acers ... on both i had to change the keyboard after a year (on one even earlier)
<ogra> one of them was the ferrari cheapo version (the guts of a ferrari in a cheap case, with cheap keyboard and display)
<ogra> its lying upstaris and has broken charging electronics ...
<ogra> (so i cant boot it anymore ...)
<ogra> and it survived exactly until the warranty was over ...
<ogra> i'm pretty fine with the current HP i have ... its a pavillion ze2000 AMD turion64
<ogra> costed 699 with 1Gig of ram and 80GiG HD
<jsgotangco> brb
<willvdl> I like the HPs . Loved my old IBM thinkpad
<willvdl> although it also wouldn't suspend
<willvdl> the acer doesn't have a decent shell but mine is pretty well specced
<willvdl> and cheap
<willvdl> woops, gotto run. bbl
<Petaris> Hi all
<jsgotangco> Hi Petaris
<Petaris> I have a question concerning ltsp and xfce
<Petaris> actually its a bug/issue that only effects the two together (to my knowlage)
<Petaris> the xfce shutdown, hibrinate, and sleep buttons seem to control the server not the client
<Petaris> this means students are continually shutting down the server
<Petaris> this is a bad(tm) thing
<Petaris> is there a way I can dissable shutdown?
<Petaris> and sleep, hibrinate
<jsgotangco> hrmm ihaven't used xfce for ltsp
<Petaris> if I have to login as root and issue a shutdown now -h (or -r) everytime as a result that doesn't bother me
<jsgotangco> but its bests you ask highvoltage
<Petaris> hrm
<Petaris> I don
<Petaris> I don't think he knew last time I asked him
<ogra> Petaris, thats somethig the xfce guys should solve (actually they are aware of that problem since dapper), it needs patching ...
<Petaris> ogra: xfce or xubuntu?
<ogra> either
<Petaris> I asked in xfce, they said just taking out the sudo rights should do it but it doesn't
<ogra> gnome-power-manager is fixed since edgy, they can look at the patch for it (its stored separately in the souce package so it should be easy to adapt)
<Petaris> ok
<Petaris> thanks ogra
<Petaris> :)
<ogra> the xfce session manager needs to respect LTSP_CLIENT and act accordingly ...
<ogra> (or whatever provides the buttons to suspend etc)
<Petaris> right, it would be cool if someday it could point back at the client and shut it down,
<Petaris> ogra: do you know if it is sceduled to be fixed before the next release?
<ogra> i have neiter any influence on the xubuntu guys nor do i know their schedule ... but i know there is a bug open since quite some time
<Petaris> oh, ok
<Petaris> thanks again
<jsgotangco> ciao goodnight i gotta sleep
<Hoobly> I am having a real b*tch of a time getting edubuntu 6.10 to run on my machine.  Can someone make some suggestions
<Hoobly> ?
<Hoobly> Everything installs fine, but when I go to boot, immediately after the memory check and disk initialization I get a blinking cursor and nothing else.
<Petaris> Hoobly: You don't get grub loading?
<Hoobly> Petaris: nope
<bddebian> Heya
<Petaris> Hoobly: I would check to make sure grub installed and configured correctly?
<rockprincess> YAHOOOOOO ;)
<P3L|C4N0> greetings
<willvdl> ogra, ping
<ogra> willvdl, pong
<willvdl> ogra, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThinClients refers to EdubuntuInstallNotes
<willvdl> which is not on h.u.c or w.u.c
<willvdl> do you perhaps know where it shoulw point or would in future point?
<ogra> i dont even know where that page comes from
<ogra> the thin client howto used to look like https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
<willvdl> aha
<ogra> somehow it mutated to a horrible page but it had valid info ... which led me to write the quick install guide
<ogra> and keep the thin client howto for community additions
<ogra> the thin client howto isnt valid for edubuntu ... simply because the installer does all the described steps there
<ogra> so that page you asked about is right ... even somewhat silly to have it ...
<willvdl> should I then rather have the link in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThinClients point to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall rather
<ogra> but also note that more complicated info is available through ThinClientHowto
<ogra> s/complicated/advanced/ ??
<willvdl> lol
<ogra> all the specs listed in the thin client howto are implemented since a long time ...
<willvdl> the /EdubuntuInstallNotes link is empty though
<willvdl>  /ThinClients refers to /EdubuntuInstallNotes for edubuntu users (has a note)
<ogra> Please don't use this Howto if you installed Edubuntu from CD, since the Installer does nearly all of the work described here already, if you use Edubuntu, follow the Edubuntu Install Notes wikipage at [WWW]  https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes.
<ogra> aha
<ogra> it has even a note
<willvdl> which you put there :)
<ogra> well, didnt you delete it ?
<ogra> (the install notes page)
<willvdl> you told me to. it was old
<ogra> actually we dont need install notes anymore ... probably we should create EdubuntuInstallNotes with a note that there are no install notes :)
<willvdl> hahaha
<ogra> well, i didnt know how many pages link to it
<willvdl> OK, best solution is to have that "note" point somewhere else
<willvdl> I should have checked. my oversight
<willvdl> I normally do
<ogra> probably point it to gettingstarted
<willvdl> good idea.
<ogra> even though we dont have that on the wiki
<ogra> (its drupal only iirc)
<highvoltage> won't it be better making an installation giude from scratch for feisty?
<willvdl> gettingstarted is link to help.u.c
<willvdl> highvoltage, probably, even if as ogra says, it is pretty empty
<ogra> highvoltage, +++
<ogra> willvdl, well, we can put new stuff on it ..
<willvdl> on what?
<ogra> you just dont need to do anything post install to get ltsp running ... but there are enough things you can add for users to get started :)
<willvdl> oh right, edubuntu install guide. not ltsp install guide
<willvdl> woudl go in handbook I guess...
<Petaris> ogra: who created that patch for gnome-power-manager?
<ogra> me
<Petaris> oh
<Petaris> ok
<highvoltage> a straight ltsp install guide for Ubuntu is probably more suited for help.u.c than edubuntu specific docs
<Petaris> I looked at it in the /etc/dbus-1/system.d/gnome-power-manager.conf file, is that all there is to it?
<ogra> Petaris, 70-suppress-pm-actions-on-ltsp.patch in the g-p-m source package
<Petaris> ogra: ahh, ok
<Petaris> and that looks at these rules?
<ogra> no
<Petaris> oh
<ogra> it makes g-p-m not allow hibernate/suspend at all if g_getenv("LTSP_CLIENT") is true
<Petaris> oh
<Petaris> ok
<willvdl> highvoltage, there is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
<ogra> they just need to add the same to the code that shows their hibernate/suspend buttons
<willvdl> and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ThinClients
<Petaris> what about for shutdown and restart
<willvdl> the latter has a broken link
<ogra> shutdown and restart are handled in gnome ... by gdm i think ... i didnt have to patch anything there, gnome detects that you are not logged in locally on the server
<willvdl> highvoltage, the GettingStarted page on www.edubuntu.org, is that in the drupal site only or does it grab from help.u.c?
<ogra> so these buttons arent shown
<highvoltage> willvdl: it's in the normal drupal site
<Petaris> ogra, ahh
<Petaris> ok
<willvdl> highvoltage, thanks. Will think about it on Monday :)
<highvoltage> willvdl: ok :)
<willvdl> highvoltage which would make more sense: install notes in the SVN or on the wiki?
<willvdl> wiki right? so that the docteam could pull relevant info into svn docs?
<willvdl> ogra, remember in the meeting you said someone was looking for https://wiki.edubuntu.com/EdubuntuLtsConfParams?
<ogra> yep
<ogra> i dont know the nick anymore, but he was apparently running breezy and didt want to upgrade
<ogra> *didnt
<willvdl> can't remember what link he was looking for but it should have forwarded
<willvdl> I remember there being 2 "copies" of the same info
<willvdl> anyhoo
<willvdl> ogra, fixed references to EdubuntuInstallNotes
<ogra> thanks :)
<willvdl> OK outa here. Hopefully on Monday I will finally have time to sort through all the existing doc&wiki planning pages and consolidate ideas and plans
<willvdl> have an excellent weekend
<ogra> ciao, enjoy
<Laser_away> ogra: marble is in NEW now
<ogra> yay
<ogra> cool
<ogra> i got pulseaudio sound working :)
<ogra> but still no mixer control :(
<ogra> i thought pulse would magically solve it
<Laser_away> oh, and a somebody is looking at the new squeak packages
<ogra> nice
<Laser_away> we might be able to totally replace our packages
<Laser_away> which would be kinda nice
<Laser_away> since these are more "official" and I think they might work better
<ogra> yeah
<Hoobly> Can someone please help me with a blinking cursor problem?
<LaserJock> yikes, I'm not sure
<LaserJock> this is at startup?
<Hoobly> yes it is at startup
<Hoobly> I have used the 6.10 live CD to setup several times.  No errors, everything completes fine.  Then when I go to boot to the new system, I get a blinking cursor and that's all
<Hoobly> I have installed 6.10 successfully on several machines, but this time, I'm very confused.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> can you get to a console? Alt-F1
<LaserJock> oh, I think that should be Ctrl-Alt-F1
<Hoobly> let me check
<Hoobly> nOpe
<Hoobly> nothing except CTRL+ALT+DEL does anything.
<LaserJock> did you get anything when you booted
<LaserJock> like messages going by or the splash image
<Hoobly> Nope
<Hoobly> no messages or splash images
<LaserJock> have you tried #ubuntu yet?
<LaserJock> they have a lot more people and I just don't know what to try if it's not even getting to  where you can use a console
<Hoobly> yes.  They suggested a few things which I have tried, but to no avail and now no one seems to want to help me.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> so you just get a blinking cursor
<LaserJock> no messages at all throught the boot process?
<LaserJock> *throughout
<Hoobly> nope
<Hoobly> the bios does a memory check and then starts to boot, but nothing happens
<LaserJock> but the livecd worked on the same machine?
<Hoobly> hmmmmm....problem solved!
<Hoobly> I unplugged the CD rom and floppy drive and GRUB came up and booted.
<Hoobly> Peculiar!
<LaserJock> ah, so it was trying to boot off of something else I guess
<Hoobly> perhaps
<Hoobly> This motherboard must suck.  It does not move down the list if there is no CD in the drive
<LaserJock> odd
<LaserJock> cbx33!
<cbx33> LaserJock, !!!
<cbx33> BETT is over
<cbx33> well for me at least
<cbx33> one more day of it tomorrow
<cbx33> but apparently it's mainly kids who go to it
<LaserJock> are you back home?
<cbx33> yup
<airjump> hi
#edubuntu 2007-01-13
<g333k_work> Hi, does the sending messages feature of student-control-panel work in xubuntu?
<ogra> if you use xubuntu desktop from ldm, yes :)
<ogra> hi btw
<ogra> *g*
<cbx33> ogra, Hi
<cbx33> BETT was awesome
<cbx33> I'll CC in on my BETT debrief
<cbx33> you
<cbx33> when it's finished
<ogra> cbx33, hey
<cbx33> it's been a while
<cbx33> sorry I've been real busy with this BETT thing
<cbx33> did you see our leaflets?
<cbx33> I must have handed out over 400 cds of edubuntu in 3 days
<ogra> seems s-c-p is missing a dependency on zenity ... i didnt know your popup is zenity :)
<cbx33> oh...
<ogra> no, i didnt see the leaflets yet
<cbx33> hmmm...
<ogra> but i'll see them end of feb. i guess if i'm in italy
<cbx33> my apologies, I remember discussing zenity with you
<cbx33> italy?
<cbx33> willvdl was a star ;)
<ogra> well, g333k_work just has a prob with popup messages ... he's using xubuntu ...
<cbx33> he got those leaflets printed in time.....man was it a rush job
<cbx33> oh
<ogra> yeah, italy ... netx edulinux meeting
<cbx33> ahh i see
<cbx33> ogra, I have a doc to send you
<ogra> doit ;)
<cbx33> it's a bout the SCP split BE/FE system
<ogra> i read your blog :)
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> see I don;t think about that
<cbx33> will get it off to you now
<ogra> heh
<ogra> thanks
<cbx33> in the middle of this BETT Debrief
<ogra> but i wont read it tonight anymore ... time for bed now ...
<cbx33> of course
<cbx33> I wasn't expecting you
<cbx33> to
<g333k_work> cbx33, Hi, can you help me to use the sending messages feature of s-c-p in xfce?
<cbx33> then we can start moving SCP, TCM forward
<ogra> (my dog is very very ill ... i didnt get much sleep the last week)
<cbx33> oh dear
<cbx33> I'll keep them in my prayers
<ogra> yeah, looks very bad ...
<g333k_work> ogra, It worked!!! I after installing zenity
<cbx33> ogra, is it just zenity that needs to be installed do you know?
<g333k_work> ogra, do I keep those lines commented?
<cbx33> ahh
<cbx33> excellent
<ogra> g333k_work, uncomment them again ...
<g333k_work> its greattttttT! I'm very happy
<ogra> cool :)
<cbx33> cool
<cbx33> my apologies g333k_work and thank you for pointing that bug out to us
<cbx33> ogra, i think I wrongly assumed at somestage that it was a default pacakge
<cbx33> as it was default on gnome...
<cbx33> I didn't know people were already using SCP on xubu
<cbx33> hehe
<ogra> heh
* cbx33 slaps his own wrists
<cbx33> naughty cbx33
<ogra> i would have expected zenity to be a default as well ...
<cbx33> phew
<ogra> so dont bother ... lets just add the dep :)
<cbx33> hehe
<cbx33> ok,
<cbx33> backported?
<ogra> we could do that, yes ...
<ogra> or rather let jdong do it and not get our hands dirty :)
<cbx33> well true
<cbx33> hhah
<cbx33> nice one ogra
<g333k_work> cbx33, I'm the first one!
<ogra> i'm training delegation :)
<cbx33> hehehe
<LaserJock> :-)
<cbx33> you need to
<ogra> the more i travel the more i have to delegate
<cbx33> you do too much as it is
<ogra> an dedulinux will drive me around the world the next six months
<cbx33> right
<cbx33> well I was shouting your name out at BETT
<cbx33> ;)
<ogra> teacher trainings all over europe ...
<cbx33> you're ogra@ubuntu.com right
<ogra> yep, or ogra@canonical.com or oliver.grawert@<one of them>
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> well,
<cbx33> I have som....*bah*...you can read it in the debrief
<cbx33> ogra - you have mail
* cbx33 says it in his best female AOL accent
<ogra> thanks ...
<ogra> heh
* LaserJock wonders if he has mail
<cbx33> LaserJock, aww.....not unless you're interested in the SCP split frontend/backend thingy
<LaserJock> well, not in any huge way
<cbx33> heheh
<LaserJock> one of these days I may want to write something for SCP
<cbx33> wow you mean you are in some way?
<cbx33> oooh
<LaserJock> you never know
<cbx33> I'll send it to you now
<cbx33> you ahve mail
<LaserJock> so I do
<ogra> anyway, bed time ... (dog caring time rather ....)
<ogra> night all
<LaserJock> cya ogra
<LaserJock> hope all goes well with the dog :(
<LaserJock> maybe that should have been a :), not sure
<ogra> well, i'm not sure he'll live til the end of the month ...
<cbx33> :(
<LaserJock> aww, sorry dude
<ogra> its on the edge and can flp to either side
<ogra> and i'm not even sure which one would be the better one for him ... so i'm somewhat ambivalent in my feelings atm
<cbx33> i know how that feels
<cbx33> we're down to one guinea pig now
<ogra> (he's 16 and life wont be much fun for him even if he survives)
<LaserJock> yeah, that is getting pretty old for a doc
<LaserJock> *dog
<cbx33> that is old
<Feral_Kid> Any anyone tell me how to lock down a desktop so that a user cannot deactivate sharing desktops?
<Feral_Kid> I want to not allow a user to stop the VNC server...
<Laser_away> Feral_Kid: you should be able to use pessalus or sabayon
<JonathanFerguson> Edubuntu 6.06.1, How do I do Passive FTP?
<jsgotangco> heh i see will in linked in
<flupk1> salut
<flupk1> est-ce que quelq'un peut m'expliquer comment mettre edubuntu ( je suis sous dapper)
<stgraber> edubuntu est une version diffrente d'Ubuntu, donc si tu comptes l'utiliser il faudra reinstaller avec un CD d'install d'Edubuntu
<stgraber> mais sauf le cas o tu veux en faire un serveur LTSP, a t'es innutile
<stgraber> les logiciels d'Edubuntu sont aussi prsent dans Ubuntu
<stgraber> et installable avec synaptic
<stgraber> tu peux d'ailleurs tous les installer avec un : sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
<stgraber> (normallement on parle anglais sur ce cannal)
<flupk1> oups, sorry, I'll try to speak in english :-/
<Asc> hi, i've downloaded edubunt 6.10 and burt iso cd, under the installation i get error " deboostrap-warning"
<Asc> anyone ?
<Burgundavia> hmm
<Asc> it also say" couldn't dowload package xxx"
<Burgundavia> have you verified the cd/
<Burgundavia> ?
<Asc> tno
<Asc> no
<Asc> trying to download from another server
<Asc> It also says that difrets files wa corupt
<Burgundavia> might be your burning software
<Burgundavia> the cd has a built in verification tool
<Asc> oh, and how do i use it ?
<Asc> the iso file was ca  295 megs
<Asc> i tried to check the cd now, it does not seem to contain valid release file it says
<Asc> ?
<junk1> hi does any one help with wireless?
<junk1> hello?
<junk1> sc0tt? you got any ideas for wireless?
<cbx33> hi
<junk1> hi
<cbx33> what's the problem
<junk1> wn825gv2 motorola card is the problem
<cbx33> do you know if it is supported by ubuntu generally?
<junk1> i need the wireless to work on the board i was told bye some one to use the cd it came with an get the .ini  or .inf or something them mount but im lost an i dont remember what to do to get it to work
<junk1> yes it is i guess im only going by what i was told
<junk1> lspci or what ever i typed in got the list of the laptop an the card was on it at the bottom
<cbx33> if that is what someone told you
<cbx33> please try looking for ndiswrapper in google
<junk1> like i said i got the disk with the drivers for it i just cant get in the internet rit now i need wireless to do that
<cbx33> I'm a little busy at the moment, but if I get a chance I will try to offer some more help
<cbx33> try in the #ubuntu channel too
<junk1> o no never again #ubuntu is worst channel i been to
<junk1> but thanks for writing back though
<junk1> any one else got any idea?
#edubuntu 2007-01-14
<crimsun> junk1: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/Ndiswrapper
<junk1> i cant get on the web till i get the card to work  though. does that matter?
<crimsun> you're connected right this moment; follow the directions and grab anything for which you'd need an Internet connection
<junk1> i got ndiswrapper it was on the cd
<junk1> like i said b 4 i got the cd th ecard came with now what?
<junk1> crimsum im not on the laptop im at a cyber cafee now what
<junk1> i got to go im out of time ill try tomarrow
<joseph0829> hey i need help on edubunutu.. anyone please
<joseph0829> ...........
<joseph0829> need help on edubuntu
<joseph0829> need help on edubuntu
<joseph0829> any one please.......
<jsgotangco> hi
<JGedeon> State what your looking for help with someone might say something.
<joseph0829> i need to uninstall edubuntu... how can i do that?
<joseph0829> i need to uninstall edubuntu... how can i do that?
<LaserJock> joseph0829: what do you want to replace it with?
<joseph0829> replace it with WinXP
<joseph0829> replace it with WinXP
<LaserJock> joseph0829: you don't need to say everything twice
<LaserJock> joseph0829: just reinstall WinXP then
<LaserJock> it will wipe off Edubuntu
<joseph0829> i'll just put the WinXP cd and then boot to CD??
<LaserJock> yeah
<joseph0829> is it possible to run *.exe files on edubuntu?
<LaserJock> no
<joseph0829> can i also use the win98 start-up disk to reformat the disk used by edubuntu?
<LaserJock> you should be able to yes
<joseph0829> what you mean 'sohuld be able to yes'>
<joseph0829> what you mean 'sohuld be able to yes'>?
<LaserJock> if you put the win98 disk in you should be ble to format the drive
<LaserJock> but you can also put your winxp disk in and reinstall and it should wipe the drive
<joseph0829> i tried to boot the win98 start-up disk then run windows 98 setup, the it says the setup can remove an OS/2 system ostored on the hard disk, and then i press enter then it says that cannot write on the disk system halted... what do you mean by halt??
<LaserJock> hmm, I'm not really up on win98 restor disks :/
<joseph0829> does edubuntu use letters for the disk drive ID?? such as C:\ or d:\ something else??
<LaserJock> something else
<LaserJock> the first dis is hda
<LaserJock> *disk
<LaserJock> or sda
<LaserJock> then second is hdb/sdb
<joseph0829> just want otclear it out.... the primary dirve is what?
<LaserJock> should be sda
<LaserJock> it kinda depends on what version you have
<LaserJock> we went from hda to sda a while back
<joseph0829> the version is edubuntu 6.06
<LaserJock> joseph0829: do you happen to know if it's a SATA drive?
<joseph0829> nopt its Just ATA
<joseph0829> nopt its Just ATA
<LaserJock> it could be hda then
<joseph0829> how about booting on an WinXP SP2 boot disk...does it replaces edubuntu??
<LaserJock> it should
<joseph0829> how about Linux Setup floppy disk?
<joseph0829> how about Linux Setup floppy disk?
<LaserJock> what about it?
<JGedeon> joseph0829, whats the problem, your win98 startup disk will do it, your WinXP will also reformat your computer.
<JGedeon> And yes a linux setup disk should be able to do it too.
<LaserJock> JGedeon: thanks ;-)
<JGedeon> LaserJock, NP
<joseph0829> im sorry for deleting edubuntu yes its very useful coz there are software that are already installed along with the OS but i think there's only a few people in our place use the OS
<JGedeon> joseph0829, I know more and more people in my area that are using it and I also now a local school that is converting to it.
<joseph0829> and it really needs a lot of information when installing and uninstalling it
* JGedeon scratches his head to figure out that one.
<joseph0829> ...hahehhehe
<JGedeon> joseph0829, sorry you think that I thought it seemed pretty straight forward installing.  Never have uninstalled though.  But it can't be any harder than putting a cd in and rebooting the computer.
<JGedeon> I would like to see what you think of the documentation that would be needed to install a M$ system that does all that Edubuntu does.
<joseph0829> ok
<LaserJock> JGedeon: very true
<JGedeon> Guess I made joseph0829 upset.
<JGedeon> Burgundavia, Problems?
<Loopstar> Set up a test lab and have server connected to thin client via crossover. Boot floppy or cd image and I keep receiving "corrupted packet received bla bla and buffer status bla bla. Any ideas.
<Asc> is it possible to install edubuntu programs to ubuntu ?
<Asc> ?
<jbrefort> Asc, ubuntu and edubuntu use the same packages
<Asc> oki
<tekteen> can someone tell me how to make a mounted drive public or only available to certain users
<tekteen> Anyone there?
<cliebow> tektee:how about valid users=
<tekteen> ?
<tekteen> (linux noob)
<tekteen> r u talking about fstab?
<cliebow> valid users= @trenton allows only users in trenton group to access
<cliebow> smb.conf
<tekteen> ty
<cliebow> ?
<tekteen> thanx a mil
<cliebow> qahh
<cliebow> sure!
<AnRkey> hi all
<AnRkey> i need some help with ltsp, can anyone help?
<AnRkey> sound for all the clients is coming out at the server
<AnRkey> really weird
<cliebow> Anrkey: try at #ltsp...but i havnt seen ogra today
<cliebow> your redirect isnt working
<stgraber> AnRkey: Which Edubuntu version ?
<stgraber> Dapper/Edgy ?
<xvlun> hi, i got a question on the tftp server integrated into edubuntu 6.10, how can i access it with a client that is not a dhcp client of the server?
<xvlun> my problem is that tftp edubuntu-server and get pxelinux.0 work fine locally on the edubuntu server, but doesn#t work when tried by another machine in the network
<xvlun> (transfer times out)
<Feral_Kid> Any one tell me how to lock down certain function on the desktop? For instance, I don't want anyone to control vnc functions, or be able to change the desktop environment (change wall paper, etc)...
<cliebow> feral_Kid:how about apt-get install pessulus
<cliebow> you can control all that
<jgedeon> cliebow: isn't that already installed by default?
<bddebian> Heya
#edubuntu 2008-01-07
<ari_stress> morning everyone :)
<highvoltage> Riddell: ping
<highvoltage> Riddell: sorry, wrong ri<tab>
<Riddell> aww
<Kamping_Kaiser> *grin*. fingers a bit awol highvoltage ? :)
<highvoltage> Kamping_Kaiser: heh, more like my mind :)
<Kamping_Kaiser> hehe
<bddebian> Heya
<jakel1> hey i have a question.... i work at a school and they are interested in teaching linux classes and i was curious if anyone has any experience with running something similar to Deep Freeze on their linux partition
<jakel1> a free option, of course, would always be nice if there is one
<scrapbunny> I am in need of a list of writing/ storymaking software that a) is made for linux or b)will work with wine. is there a central place that lists the educational software available or do I just have to google?
<LaserJock> scrapbunny: you might want to have a look at http://www.osv.org.au/index.cgi?tid=155
<scrapbunny> thanks, is that pretty current?
<LaserJock> fairly
<LaserJock>  I think they are working on a newer one
<LaserJock> but I don't know when that's supposed to come out
<scrapbunny> This will help a lot, thanks :) my principal wants to know if edubuntu will support a Young Authors writing program he wants to start and I want to give the students more choices then just OO
<das-t> hi scrapbunny ... if you are looking for office tools, there is also koffice. this comes with kde, so you might need to install at least some kdelibs (these come automatically though). i am not using it but wanted to mention that it is there. ;-)
<LaserJock> ogra: I talked to squeak people this weekend and found out some interesting info
<LaserJock> ogra: also dug around into the XDG config stuff for dynamic menus
#edubuntu 2008-01-08
<ari_stress> morning all :D
<baksteen> hiya
<baksteen> i need some help installing edubuntu 7.10, It's giving me an error that is holding up the whole installation
<baksteen> if anybody would be willing to help? It has to do with the Build LTSP chroot step of the installation
<johnny> baksteen, i've never installed edubuntu, i just use the ltsp part of regular ubuntu, so i'm not sure how i can help with that
<johnny> perhaps you can deselect ltsp for now and come back to it?
<johnny> when more folks are about
<anestis> Hi Richard
<markvandenborre> wouldn't it make sense to not use networkmanager on a thin client server, and just keep to /etc/network/interfaces?
<markvandenborre> at least in my case I mean...
<markvandenborre> but maybe even more in general, is that something to be considered from a stability point of view for a thin client server?
<markvandenborre> I have a stability problem with dbus and hal it seems:
<markvandenborre> Jan  8 10:33:27 edubuntu NetworkManager: <WARN>  nm_hal_deinit(): libhal shutdown failed - Connection is closed
<markvandenborre> and after that dbus seems to go tits up
<ogra> well, edubuntu uses /e/n/i instead of NM for the thin client part
<ogra> NM is still there since you can use it for the second spare NIC
<ogra> indeed you can safely uninstall it but its also not used in a default edubuntu two NIC install
<markvandenborre> heh? not even on the nic where I have a dhcp client running?
<ogra> err, indeed it is
<ogra> but not on the client side
<ogra> s/client/thin client
<markvandenborre> what consequences am I looking at by just moving the dhcp client nic on the server to /e/n/i instead of NM?
<ogra> none
<markvandenborre> or is there anything I could help troubleshoot and still keep using NM, maybe helping edubuntu in the process?
<ogra> NM should show you that it found no interfaces it can manage, thats all
<ogra> well, we're just changing the whole CD setup
<ogra> that means that the first edubuntu Cd will go away ...
<markvandenborre> I'll probably go /e/n/i to make the system more stable
<markvandenborre> but if I can help by looking at what goes wrong
<ogra> so you have to use ubuntu alternate first (including ltsp now) and then add the edubuntu-desktop from an addon CD ...
<markvandenborre> before doing that, please tell me what info you'd like to have
<ogra> that means indeed that NM is already there, coming from the ubuntu-desktop
<ogra> so we'll have to stick with it ...
<ogra> file bugs about issues you see so we can fix them :)
<markvandenborre> ouch, might be hard for a server
<ogra> ubuntu-server doesnt have a desktop
<markvandenborre> anyhting in particular I should include?
<markvandenborre> I meant for a thin client server
<ogra> logs :)
<ogra> add LTSP somewhere in eth description or title, so the NM dev knows whom to poke (me)
<markvandenborre> I've found the exact second where things go wrong
<markvandenborre> and Jan  8 10:33:27 edubuntu NetworkManager: <WARN>  nm_hal_deinit(): libhal shutdown failed - Connection is closed
<ogra> s/eth/the/
<pmvalente> hello
<markvandenborre> ogra: k, will do
<markvandenborre> pmvalente: hi
<pmvalente> can you help me, I try that my thin clients mount theirs usb pen drives, but I can't
<ogra> is the user in the fuse group ?
<pmvalente> yes
<ogra> well, then it should work out of the box
<pmvalente> yes I know
<ogra> doesnt it work at all or only for specific users or at specific times ?
<pmvalente> just a second
<ogra> and is your usb key partitioned ... ltspfs doesnt handle unpartitioned keys
<pmvalente> yes
<pmvalente> is partitioned
<ogra> did you do any tweaks through lts.conf ?
<pmvalente> nothing
<ogra> (shouldnt be used if you dont need to override any of teh defaults)
<ogra> ok
<ogra> is this gutsy ? 7.10 ?
<pmvalente> I log with differents users and in diferents machines but the result is the same, no usb on desktop
<ogra> is this gutsy ? 7.10 ?
<pmvalente> edubuntu
<ogra> which version ?
<pmvalente> yes is gutsy 7.10
<ogra> ok
<ogra> create /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
<ogra> add the following content:
<ogra> [default]
<ogra>     SCREEN_07=ldm
<ogra>     SCREEN_02=shell
<ogra> then boot a client
<ogra> with ctrl-alt-f2 you can swithc to a local console on the client to debug
<pmvalente> no job control in this shell
<ogra> great
<ogra> now plug in your usb key and type dmesg right after that
<ogra> see if it found the key (there should be messages about sdXX)
<ogra> (likely sda1)
<pmvalente> yes sdb1
<ogra> right
<pmvalente> and now please?
<ogra> check if /var/run/drives/ contains a dir for it
<pmvalente> yes it is
<ogra> should be called something like usbdisk-sdb1
<ogra> ok
<pmvalente> no is a name
<pmvalente> KINGSTON
<ogra> switch to the graphical screen (ctrl-alt-f7) and log in there with a user you know is in the fuse group
<pmvalente> done
<ogra> replug the keys
<ogra> *key
<pmvalente> done
<ogra> open a gnome-terminal in your X session and issue the mount command
<ogra> or better: mount|grep ltsp
<ogra> any output ?
<pmvalente> yes
<ogra> there should be two mounts
<ogra> ltspfs on /tmp/.$USER-ltspfs/<diskname>
<pmvalente> ltspfs on /tmp/.a24268-ltspfs/Trabalho type fuse.ltspfs (rw.....
<ogra> and /tmp/.$USER-ltspfs/<diskname> on /media/...
<pmvalente> yes
<ogra> both are there ?
<pmvalente> ye
<ogra> so everything is fine with your local devices then
<ogra> ther is no icon on your gnome desktop ?
<pmvalente> sbut the USER on that output is different that the user that logs
<ogra> aha
<ogra> so it didnt work then
<pmvalente> the user login is a24273
<pmvalente> and the user on output is .24268-ltspfs ....
<ogra> there is a bug in /usr/bin/ltspfsmounter that lets only one user mount properly, you need to delete a line in that script
<ogra> open the script and look for a line containing DISPLAY
<ogra> delete this line and try again
<ogra> (i wasnt expecting a second user, else i'd have mentioned it earlier)
<pmvalente> I can find that file ltspfsmounter
<ogra> on the server
<pmvalente> yes
<pmvalente> /usr/bin ?
<ogra> oh, sorry, tahts in sbin, not bin
<pmvalente> need to restart something?
<ogra> re-plug
<pmvalente> ok
<ogra> should start working right away
<pmvalente> you are a GOD
<pmvalente> thanks very much
<pmvalente> its working
<ogra> :)
<pmvalente> keep the good working
<markvandenborre> is there any reason why I would want to have gnome-power-manager installed on an edubuntu ltsp server?
<ogra> saving power ?
<markvandenborre> yeah, you're obviously right...
<stmartin> hi! Can I ask u what is the use of OpenDNS?
<stmartin> what is it for?
<markvandenborre> stmartin: earning advertising dollars for the opendns people?
<markvandenborre> nothing to do with edubuntu, that's for sure
<stmartin> I have one problem. Here are the details. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=661770
<markvandenborre> stmartin: come to #ubuntu, and I'll see what I can do to help you there
<markvandenborre> your question belongs there more than here
<stmartin> I am already there
<pmvalente> as somebody know how to sort by user in users & group graphic manager
<pmvalente> hello
<pmvalente>  as anybody know how to sort by user in users & group graphic manager
<pmvalente> please, as anybody know if is possible in user & groups manager to sort by users?
<pmvalente>  as somebody know how to sort by user in users & group graphic manager
<LaserJock> ogra: did ltsp get moved?
<ogra> not tested yet, but i moved it today, yes
<ogra> how's life for you ? there is a lot water around in your area i saw on TV
<LaserJock> ah yes
<LaserJock> we got quite a bit of snow
<ogra> snow ?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> lots of rain too
<ogra> dont you live at the edge of a desert ?
<LaserJock> yep
<LaserJock> but it is a high desert
<ogra> ah
<LaserJock> it doesn't often dump snow/rain
<ogra> well, still that doesnt sound very usual
<LaserJock> but when it does it does tend to do quite a bit
<LaserJock> a levee broke in a canal ~30 miles away and flooded a town
<LaserJock> they had to evacuate 4k people
<ogra> yeah, we had that guy on tv for two days, moaning that he didnt think about a flooding insurance since he lives near a desert
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> did you get my notes yesterday?
<ogra> what did the squeak people say ?
<LaserJock> well, I talked to them about Etoys
<LaserJock> and trying to figure out the difference between all the various squeak images/frameworks
<ogra> its a chaos
<LaserJock> for Etoys apparently the actual framework is included in the regular squeak image
<LaserJock> but it would be good to package up the squeakland image
<LaserJock> the biggest news was that Apple has agreed to relicense squeak under Apache2.0
<ogra> wohoo
<ogra> that makes it ready for universe
<ogra> at least :)
<LaserJock> I'm not sure how long it's gonna take to get it all cleaned up
<LaserJock> they have to get other contributors to agree and release a new version
<LaserJock> but they're making a push to make as much as possible MIT even
<LaserJock> at this point moving over to the Debian packages for squeak, and then packaging the seaside image and perhaps the OLPC image would be pretty cool
<ogra> sounds like
<LaserJock> ogra: \o/ \o/ \o/
<LaserJock> I think dynamic menus work
<stgraber> yeah !!!
<stgraber> LaserJock: you managed to have the xdg thing working ?
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> yep, it looks to be working
<LaserJock> I just need to replace export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS="${BASE_DIR}" with export XDG_CONFIG_DIRS="${BASE_DIR}":/etc/xdg/
#edubuntu 2008-01-09
<ari_stress> morning everyone :D
<pygi> morning ari_stress
<RichEd> === edubuntu meeting in #ubuntu-meeting = in 5 mins ===
<jsgotangco> hello
<bddebian> Heya
<stmartin> How to remove Local Disk and sda1 from Desktop?
<grezer> Morning All
<grezer> quick question for you all, im using xampp on my server, and before I can start it up, i have to turn off apache2, mysql, and proftpd, is there any way i can make it so these servces dont auto on boot ??
<johnny> uhmm..
<grezer> johnny, how ??
<johnny> uhmm.. why would you use xampp when you already have all those tools installed?
<johnny> xampp seems only useful on windows
<grezer> well, ok
<johnny> i don't see a reason to use it on linux at all
<grezer> I was very new .. and needed to get everything working .. and that was the easyest thing for me to do at the time
<grezer> three clicks and it was up and working, I was having issues with PHP and apache working frendly with each other so I used xampp instead
<grezer> I dont want to change anything right now ( until i get my new faster better server going )
<grezer> its just a pain having to turn everything off and then start xampp
<grezer> I would like to have xampp start on start up
<grezer> did I scare everyone with my question ? or place my self in a black hole
<johnny> go ask them :)
<johnny> or use the services section in administration
<johnny> the menu
<grezer> ask who jonny
<johnny> xampp people silly
<johnny> but try the services menu option
<johnny> i almost forgot
<grezer> services menu option
<grezer> ok
<grezer> good start jonny, thank you for the assistance
<hubuntu_> ok guys ihow do I install a thin client on a computer? Just iusing the Classroom Server CD and choosing workstation?
<johnny> you don't install it
<johnny> you network boot them
<johnny> workstation is for standalone edubuntu
<hubuntu_> ut they need some kind of software, don'tthey?
<johnny> depends
<hubuntu_> or just start a NXE boot option and tah's it?
<johnny> if your PCs have PXE bootrom
<johnny> yes
<johnny> try that
<hubuntu_> if not, what?
<johnny> if you are sure that the various ltsp server optiosn are installed
<johnny> buy PXE boot containing NICs
<hubuntu_> of course, isn't it the default?
<johnny> or use a CD
<johnny> or floppy
<hubuntu_> get the idea...
<johnny> from etherboot site
<hubuntu_> amazingly easy...
<johnny> or usb.. whatever works for you
<johnny> or even on a partition on the HD
<johnny> if you got it
<hubuntu_> should come out louder on the website.. din't quite get it, but it might just be me
<johnny> always room for improvement
<johnny> but you should read the full edubuntu docs
<johnny> before you proceed
<johnny> the handbook that is
<hubuntu_> thanx man
<LaserJock> ogra: around?
#edubuntu 2008-01-10
<nentis> hi folks
<nentis> I have a thin-client which needs a custom kernel.  What method should I use to compile and install a new client kernel?
<nentis> specifically, I need to get rid of the CONFIG_PARAVIRT=y option in the i386 client kernel
<kgoetz> nentis: you'll have to create it a seperate chroot probably
<nentis> I can't compile a new kernel using the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/config-2.6.22-14-386 as a base, and throw it into the existing chroot, then run ltsp-update-kernels?
<kgoetz> if the other clients dont mind the chang you could yeah
<nentis> all clients are the same.  This is a new install.
<nentis> ebox 2300SX requires that option be removed.
<highvoltage> RichEd: greetings.
<LaserJock> ugg is it that late?
<RichEd> hello mr carter sir ...
<RichEd> and mr LaserJock
<RichEd> happy happy merry best etc.
<highvoltage> LaserJock: heh
<highvoltage> yes, same to the both of you!
<LaserJock> RichEd: looks like I got dynamic menus figured out
<RichEd> LaserJock: ogra mentioned some success at the (very small & short) meeting on wed
<RichEd> can you give me a quick run-down on what can be done with your new feature ... or should I read the spec ?
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> well I just fixed it
<LaserJock> it was complete hosed for a while and I was unsure if it could be reimplemented
<LaserJock> but I figured it out with a one-line fix
<LaserJock> so now it needs a friendly front-end
<LaserJock> perhaps I can get ogra, the pygtk masta, to help there ;-)
<RichEd> :) from you ... or are you looking for some labour ?
<LaserJock> I've not particularly written a GUI before
<LaserJock> although this one should be simple I don't want to promise much
<LaserJock> especially since it's 1am and I have a dissertation draft due tomorrow ;-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: how are things with the dissertation?
<highvoltage> sounds good if you already have a draft ready :)
<RichEd> did you respond to our volunteer guy I mailed you about ? cody ? i wonder if he could get stuck in (with a bit of guidance from an old hand)
<LaserJock> RichEd: doh! I forgot. I've know cody for quite some time. I'll try to respond to that email
<LaserJock> he's been around the doc team for a long time and is getting his hand into MOTU
<LaserJock> not sure if he can code but I'll ask
<jsgotangco> hello
<LaserJock> highvoltage: *supposed* to have a draft ready
<RichEd> hi jsgotangco :)
<LaserJock> hi jsgotangco
<jsgotangco> LaserJock: why are you still awake
<jsgotangco> heh
<LaserJock> because I'm pulling my hair out trying to work on my dissertation ;-)
<jsgotangco> heh
<LaserJock> some days I just hate molecules
<LaserJock> my drawing program just won't reopen its own files :(
<jsgotangco> so i finally bored myself again and decided to build a dev environment again for ubuntu
<jsgotangco> as work is mostly boring stuff
<highvoltage> LaserJock: aah :)
<LaserJock> jsgotangco: don't you have ... something else to do? ;-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: hey, stop that!
<jsgotangco> yeah wrap up series 2 of funding then IPO
<jsgotangco> is edubuntu getting an lts?
<LaserJock> as far as I know yes
<LaserJock> Kubuntu's lack thereof was because of KDE4
<jsgotangco> LaserJock so when will i be calling you as Dr.
<jsgotangco> heh
<LaserJock> hopefully May
<highvoltage> DrLaserJock
<highvoltage> that sounds very evil.
<jsgotangco> please do not touch "The Lazer"
<LaserJock> that's right ;-)
<LaserJock> "that's *Dr* LaserJock to you"
<jsgotangco> so will you call your next project the alan parsons project?
<LaserJock> hmm, I gotta get Project Seabass finished first :/
<LaserJock> sbalneav was supposed to help me with that
<jsgotangco> RichEd: how's it going dude
<RichEd> jsgotangco: well thanks & self ? (apart from your boring day job that is ?)
<jsgotangco> so who's editing the website? me and highvoltage get an occasional email inquiry or two
<jsgotangco> they must be still referring to the emails on the website
 * highvoltage installed the new theme over the weekend
<highvoltage> still needs some work and tweaking and fine-tuning
<RichEd> jsgotangco: pips1 ... forward on to him & cc me
<highvoltage> we still need a new frontpage though :/
<LaserJock> we need .... ACTION!
 * LaserJock darts about
<LaserJock> night all
<stmartin> hi! I want to ask you, how to change directory (cd) to desktop on the terminal?
<ogra> cd ~/Desktop
<stmartin> ok, thanks
<highvoltage> hey ogra, how are you doing?
<stmartin> how to play subtitle (.sub file) in movie player?
<ogra> highvoltage, fine, ltsp just moved to ubuntu-alternate :)
<ogra> so hopefully we can drop edubuntu-server with alpha4 now
<highvoltage> ogra: oh wow
<highvoltage> ogra: I think the alterante CD should've had an LTSP option ages ago
<highvoltage> ogra: but LTSP is probably more ready for the masses now than it was previously
<highvoltage> stmartin: I think that question might be more suitable for #ubuntu
<ogra> highvoltage, well, it was on there for quite some time .... but not documented and theer was no usable kernel on eth ubuntu CD
<ogra> it was only dropped for gutsy
<highvoltage> aaah
<ogra> i switrched to the -generic kernel and changed some bits in the installer integration
<highvoltage> ogra: from the end-user side, will there be anything new in hardy for edubuntu?
<ogra> apart from the cds goind away ?
<ogra> *going
<ogra> well, probably lasers menu stuff
<ogra> and italc might be in, not sure yet
<ogra> hardy+1 will see big changes, i think for hardy the CD redesign will be enough
<ogra> i need to cope with its LTS nature .... so better fix bugs than adding new things
<ogra> currently most of my time goes into classmate things anyway
<highvoltage> yep
<highvoltage> I'm getting a Classmate within the next week or so
<highvoltage> if you ever want me to test anything, I'll be happy too
<highvoltage> yesterday I got my DSL upgraded to 4mbps, so my life will be much, much easier from now on
<ogra> i'll ping you if the image autobuilder is done
<ogra> then we get daily images
<highvoltage> won't have to wait forever when I download something anymore.
<highvoltage> ok cool
<ogra> it    will be rsyncable
<highvoltage> ++ :)
<highvoltage> then it would take a few minutes at most for me to sync :)
<pmvalente> hi
<pmvalente> as anybody know how do I put sound working on my thin clients
<ZeRoMaX> was looking for some help setting up ltsp on ubuntu gutsy
<ZeRoMaX> anyone have any experience on setting this up?
<stgraber> Lots of people do, but unfortunately that's the same who don't have much time :)
<stgraber> Do you have any specific problem with installing LTSP ?
<ZeRoMaX> i was having an error with "This workstation isn't authorized to connect to server" and then i updated sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys and sudo ltsp-update-image
<ZeRoMaX> now when my client connects i dont see a login screen anymore
<stgraber> oh, that's weird
<stgraber> what's the last message you see on the screen (if any) ?
<ZeRoMaX> i get into initramfs screen instead
<stgraber> hmm, ok, what's the last lines of /var/log/syslog on the server ?
<stgraber> any nbd error message ?
<ZeRoMaX> dhcpack on 192.168.0.250 to 00:d0:59:81:a8:4b via eth1
<Nubae> hey... does 7.10 not have the groups powerdev and plugdev anymore?
<ZeRoMaX> that is the last line in the syslog
<stgraber> what's the result of a : ls -lh /opt/ltsp/images/ ?
<ZeRoMaX> -rwxr--r-- 1 root toot 140M 2008-01-10 10:18 i386.log
<Nubae> I get  message from message bus (dbus) saying that powerdev and plugdev are not recognised groups, is that a change in 7.10?
<stgraber> argh, why is it .log ??
<stgraber> it should be .img :)
<stgraber> ZeRoMaX: try renaming it to i386.img
<ZeRoMaX> my mistake its actually i386.img
<ZeRoMaX> read it wrong
<stgraber> ZeRoMaX: can you check your syslog for any "nbd" or "nbd-server" message, usually when you get an initramfs prompt, it's because it was unable to mount the hdd image over nbd
<ZeRoMaX> ndb-server[6052]:connect from 192.168.0.250 (192.168.0.250)
<ZeRoMaX> ndb-server[6052]:connect from 192.168.0.250, assigned file is /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
<ZeRoMaX> ndb-server[6052]: size of exported file/device is 146485248
<stgraber> hmm, ok so it's not a nbd issue
<stgraber> can you try removing splash and silent from /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default ?
<stgraber> and booting your client again, you should at least see more information
<bddebian> Heya
<stgraber> hi bddebian
<bddebian> Hello stgraber
<ZeRoMaX> when i check the eth0 setting on the client i noice the ip address are different
<methods[laptop]> how do i install by category ?
#edubuntu 2008-01-11
<nentis> anyone get an ebox-2300sx to work with ltsp?
<nentis> this device is killing me.  no math co-processor.. no amount of kernels seems to work.
<lns> wow...back to the 386-sx days! no math coprocessor....WHY GOD, WHY?!
<nentis> :(
<lns> and i always wondered what the SX-2 series was supposed to be....twice the non-existent math co processor??
<nentis> double the clock speed?
<nentis> I'm not happy that I may have 50 paper weights and 0 thin-clients.
<lns> you should have gotten 1 and tested it.... ?
<nentis> the 2300 (non SX) tested fine.
<nentis> but yes
<lns> never used an ebox myself
<Meshezabeel> how can I get gcompriz to go full screen so that gnome panels are not in the way?
<Meshezabeel> gcompris
<johnny> add the lil sliders to the panel so you can hide them
<johnny> that's about the best you can do until the app itself does it
<Meshezabeel> ok, thanks, was hoping for a bit easier way for my kindergarten students, but guess I'll just have to put up with it for now ;)
<johnny> well submit a feature request to run it full screen
<johnny> but if that's the only app you're using.. you could make the session run it full screen
<johnny> and not have gnome loaded at all
<Meshezabeel> well, it does have a full screen option, it just doesn't seem to work for me
<johnny> sounds like a bug
<johnny> you're gonna have to talk to them
<johnny> i guess
<Meshezabeel> ok, thanks
<Burgundavia> johnny: gcompris can full screen
<johnny> yeah.. he just said it didn't work
<Harrison___> Hi I wonder if someone can help me. I'm 12 years old and have installed edubuntu on a laptop. If I can get it working, then I can use the laptop. However I'm stuck. if I enable the restricted driver, I get composite extension not available. if I disable it, I get desktop effects could be enabled...can someone please offer some help? as the forums seem to ask you to do one or the other
<Harrison___> and as i've done both, I seem to be stuck between 2 errors
<Harrison___> it's edubuntu 7.10
<Harrison___> or is there a better channel to ask the question in?
<nentis> your hardware might not support the special graphics
<nentis> if an intel video card
<nentis> you might ask in #ubuntu
<nentis> gotta run
<highvoltage> hey Harrison___
<highvoltage> Harrison___: do you perhaps know which display card is in the laptop? let us know if you get it working, please.
<tuukka> hi! i've created a file to /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ which works as a login script. but any ideas of where i should put corresponding logout script??
<jsgotangco> highvoltage
<jsgotangco> wtf is with that facebook invie
<jsgotangco> "Jonathan wants to know your true sexuality"
 * RichEd winks at jsgotangco 
<jsgotangco> haha
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: heh, it was a stupid test and you had to invite 20 people to get the answer :)
<jsgotangco> haha
<jsgotangco> facebook wasteland
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: safe to ignore and there was no any added meaning to it
<jsgotangco> nahhh
<jsgotangco> everything in facebook is dumb anyways
<highvoltage> I want to try to avoid facebook, but it is evil. like IRC.
<highvoltage> and now I've kind of been sucked in by twitter and wikia too
<jsgotangco> twitter is ok
<highvoltage> twitter doesn't have all these dumb "apps", at least.
<jsgotangco> add me heh
<jsgotangco> JeromeGotangco
<highvoltage> ok
<RichEd> jsgotangco & highvoltage: i did not check my own personal facebook profile for 2 weeks over xmas
<RichEd> when i went back ... i did not even recognise it ... a viral explosion of apps, and messages telling me who had just wiped their bum, and who's dog was feeling depressed
<RichEd> like i really need that in my life :/
<jsgotangco> yeah
<jsgotangco> don't ever install x poke and that silly stuff!
<highvoltage> Riddell: hehe
<highvoltage> ugh, sorry again, I meant RichEd
<highvoltage> what kind of DSL connections do you guys have at home these days?
 * ogra has 2M symmetrical here
<joe__> anyone alive?
<Harrison___> graphics card is an ati radeon xpress 200m does this support desktop effects, it is supported by the restricted driver
<joe__> Anyone know how to manage users in edubuntu?
<RichEd> joe__: same as ubuntu ... have you looked for help on help.ubuntu ? or the wiki ?
<joe__> Hmm... I think I just need to keep playing.
<joe__> I find users created on the server do no propagate to the clients.
<ogra> there are no users on clients
<joe__> will 7.10 clients work on 7.04 server?
<ogra> (teh client sessions run on the server, the server needs the users )
<ogra> no
<joe__> hmm.
<ogra> the whole design of servige the rootfs has changed between 7.04 and 7.10
<ogra> *serving
<joe__> cool.
<joe__> I am trying to get this elementary school lab running (the guy who set it up is gone)
<joe__> some are edubuntu, some are ubuntu, all seem to be connected to the server.
<laga> hey guys :) i suspect some people in here are using diskless clients. i'd like to add support for diskless clients to mythbuntu but i'm encountering an odd issue: no matter what i do, nfsmount inside the initramfs will always mount the root share read-only. is that normal behavior?
<joe__> Hey guys -- is it possible to run a lab with *some* clients diskless and others not?
<ogra> laga, yes
<laga> ogra: do you know why that happens?
<ogra> laga, thats the dsign :) the clients boot with the writable bits in tmp ... its a security thing since theer is nothing running on the client thats not actually needed to connect to the server and execute a session there
<ogra> s/in tmp/in a tmpfs/
<ogra> sorry
<ogra> the clients have no users or anything, all tehy do is boot into a login manager that then starts an ssh session to the server where it executes a session
<laga> ogra: from what i've read in the ubuntu wiki, that's your (edubuntu) design. however, the initramfs script provide the facilities to mount the nfs root writeable.
<ogra> right
<ogra> but i wouldnt suggest that
<laga> ogra: i will not use your scripts (sorry if i made it sound like that), i was just wondering if anyone has made experiencies similar to mine
<ogra> there are many files that get changed at every boot
<laga> ogra: i'll be using unionfs with that, no worries.
<ogra> if you have more than one client it will break
<ogra> we use unionfs
<laga> my problem actually is that i can't mount any shares rw in initramfs. but the root share would be a good start. :)
<ogra> (we dont use nfs anymore since gutsy since that had massive speed probelms)
<ogra> you dont want root to be writable trust me :)
<laga> yes, you use unionfs in gutsy. with nbd and squashfs, which is a really nifty approach :) just discovered that a few minutes ago
<ogra> you can create an fstab in the squashfs image to mount diffferent shares easily
<laga> ogra: i do not want root to be writeable. i just want to be able to mount a nfs share rw.
<ogra> i'd rather suggest that
<ogra> right
<ogra> make sure nfs-common is installed in the image
<ogra> (its not in the default ubuntu bootstrap selection anymore, so not installed on thin clients)
<laga> thanks, but i don't want to use squashfs. :) i was just wondering if anyone was unable to mount nfs shares rw in the initramfs that comes with ubuntu.
<ogra> everyone
<ogra> (as i explained above, no nfs client bits are in the image)
<ogra> your mileage will vary if you want to use ltsp without squashfs though
<ogra> its what we default to since a while
<laga> thanks.
<ogra> and the old nfs chroot might go away in hardy, not sure yet
<ogra> we currently keep it for easier maintenance of the image
<laga> i should have made it clearer that i didn't even want to use ltsp in the first place :)
<ogra> but there is an image shell that makes it possible to drop the 400M of cruft
<ogra> well, it would be cool if you could integrate it in ltsp :)
<ogra> i was planning a myth mode myself since quite some time .... given that its likely only a five line pulgin that would be needed it shoudl be fairly easy
<laga> yes, but we need fat clients :)
<ogra> why ?
<ogra> you need a player and a frontend to the db server, no ?
<ogra> (at least thats how i always understood mythtv)
<laga> back then, a few years ago, i wanted to add mythfrontend to LBE. i failed horribly. :)
<ogra> which means two additional package to install and probably some tweaks to the ltsp defaults
<laga> ogra: mythfrontend ( = player software) needs to be run as local app.
<ogra> right
<ogra> so you should actually be able to just install the mythfrontend package in the chroot and thats it
<ogra> have you ever looked at ltsp plugins ?
<laga> how do you run local apps in ltsp these days? back then, you had to do ssh magic
<ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins
<ogra> we dont have localapp support ready yet for ltsp5
<ogra> but the approach is to use xatoms and on the session side some xdg overlays
<ogra> ldm makes that pretty easy
<ogra> since we just need to send the data through the ssh tunnel ...
<laga> excuse my ignorance. what does "ldm" stand for?
<ogra> ltsp display manager
<ogra> the login manager used in ltsp5
<ogra> (we dont do xdmcp anymore)
<laga> ah
<ogra> ldm by default does: ssh -X user@server /etc/X11/Xsession
<ogra> it also has a mode that omits -X and sets DISPLAY to the clients display .... so you keep ssh password handling while having the speed of old XDMCP sessions
<ogra> anyway, have a look at the kiosk plugin described on that wikipage ... its running a local firefox (teh code is buggy though, its just a rought example) ... seems similar to what you want
<laga> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPFatClients?highlight=%28ltsp%29 <- i suppose this has not been implemented yet?
<ogra> (replace ff with your mythfrontend, add nfs-common to the chroot ...
<ogra> nope
<laga> sad
<ogra> it depends on a network auth mechanism we dotn have
<ogra> with the new squashfs/unionfs architecture it should be trivial though
<ogra> (to do it yourself)
<laga> true
<laga> how big is such a squashfs image compressed/uncompressed? i kinda liked the idea of using the server's /
<ogra> the nfs implementation would have been tricky though .... sicne nfs and unionfs in ubuntu dont like each ther you would ave to do a lot of bind mounting etc
<laga> (read-only, of course. i'm not insane :))
<ogra> -rwxr--r-- 1 root root 158M 2007-12-29 17:47 i386.img
<laga> oh, what's the matter with nfs and unionfs? i know there's some special handling for nfs in unionfs but i think i've read it's not necessary anymore in recent kernels
<laga> sounds sensible
<laga> although we probably have to add 100M (uncompressed) for mythtv
<ogra> well, it didnt work in gutsy, nfs/unionfs just broke back then
<ogra> since we stepped away from insecure nfs completely in ltsp upstream i didnt look since gutsy started
<laga> unionfs was broken badly earlier in gutsy but it's been working fine since the release
<ogra> not to mention that nfs is about 5X slower in booting than the nbd/squashfs/unionfs combo
<laga> how long does it take your clients to boot into X?
<ogra> 50-70sec depending on the client (nothing faster than 1GHz here, max 128M)
<laga> sounds good enough.
<ogra> with nfs that went above 2min for some
<laga> i'd expect that more RAM would speed that up a bit. and running a mythtv frontend in 128M is silly (yet i do it and wit works reasonably well)
<ogra> yeah, 256 would be minimum i guess
<laga> 512M would be better. DDRII-RAM is cheap enough if you buy a new box.
<laga> ogra: you almost convinced me. :) i suppose i could ask one last question: do i _need_ a dhcp server? many epople will already have SoHo-routers with their own dhcpds. for our first attempt at netbooting in mythbuntu 8.04, i was just going to create a simple script which created a bootable usb pen drive/CD-ROM where the bootloader would pass all necessary options like nfsroot=10.0.0.1:/ and ip=dhcp. would that still be possible with ltsp?
<ogra> you need a dhcp server to hand out the boot info
<ogra> ltsp has two server packages
<ogra> ltsp-server and ltsp-server-standalone
<ogra> the latter depends on dhcpd3
<laga> yeah, ltsp-server-standalone comes with a dhcpd.
<ogra> if you dont use a local dhcpd you need to set up the other in the right way to serve the tftp info
<laga> well, tftp is just used to download kernel + initrd, right?
<ogra> edubuntu uses a two NIC install by default for its server ... that way one NIC can be dhcp client at a ruter and the second serves the TC network (including a dedicated dhcpd)
<laga> let me guess: if i want to use one NIC, i need to add an IP alias to that interface?
<ogra> no
<ogra> if you want one NIC you need to make sure there is no other dhcpd in your network or configure that one correctly for netbooting
<laga> let's see: dhcp to tell the PXE stack to download pxelinux, pxelinux then downloads its config file and loads kernel + initrd, right? is it used for anything else?
<ogra> well giving out the IP :)
<ogra> but yes thats about it
<ogra> ther is tftp involved in some pieces :)
<laga> ok. let me replace tftp by putting the bootloader, the kernel and the initrd on a usb pen drive.
<laga> now we just need the dhcpd. assuming i can just pass in all needed options as a boot option for the kernel/initramfs, i should be fine.
<laga> i guess i need to look at your scripts
<laga> thanks a lot, you have beena great inspiration!
<laga> ogra: just looked at your initramfs scripts. is there any reason why you're (seeminglxy) duplicating work in init-bottom/unionfs_cow and scripts/ltsp-nbd ?
<bddebian> Heya
#edubuntu 2008-01-12
<`Matir> Does anyone in here have an environment using LDAP authentication where LDAP users are able to hotplug USB devices?
<laga> ogra: wow. the squashs including all mythtv stuff is 450M :)
<laga> s/squashs/squashfs/
<laga> ogra: ping
<kevin_> wb PriceChild
#edubuntu 2008-01-13
<ojwb> hi, I'm trying to download hardy-dvd-i386.iso using jigdo, but it's ended complaining 150 files could not be downloaded
<ojwb> e.g. http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ubiquity/ubiquity-frontend-gtk_1.7.2_i386.deb
<ojwb> looking in that directory, there are older versions, and 1.7.3
<LaserJock> ojwb: does jigdo download the .debs directly?
<ojwb> essentially, yes
<LaserJock> I would think it'd download the .iso
<ojwb> I tried, but it was awfully slow
<ojwb> so I gave up and used jigdo
<ojwb> which is much faster
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> well that would be odd to me
<LaserJock> since packages come and go
<ojwb> it has splits the DVD up into all the bits it can get from packages (which it gets from the archive) and everything else (which is in a ~700MB "template")
<ojwb> it does rely on the packages being available
<LaserJock> perhaps a torrent would work better
<ojwb> given the jigdo template was in an official download directory, I assumed they'd be stable
<ojwb> given I've just downloaded ~4GB, I'd really like to get this to work
<ojwb> I did try the torrents, but nobody was seeding them
<ojwb> unless I can somehow get the torrent to "fill in the gaps"
<ojwb> aha!
<ojwb> it seems I can just use rsync to fill in the gaps
 * ojwb tries
<ojwb> that seemed to work until the disk filled up (d'oh!)
<ojwb> cool, that worked
<ojwb> just in case anyone else hits the same problem, I got the answer here:
<ojwb> http://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Debian-Jigdo/#AEN384
<ojwb> anyway, bedtime for me
<bunset1> hello, i am not able to start using ubuntu without some help
<bunset1> anyone would to help me please ?
<bunset1> I am with hp 510 notebook and ubuntu gutsy, having problems to understand wireless configuration
<bunset1> after restarting I have to reconfigure wep params to connecting
<bunset1> Im glad if someone wants to help me.
<johnny> what method are you using? the applet ?
<johnny> afaik, it should save the settings, and then only ask for keyring password and not make you reconfigure
<johnny> if it doesn't.. i don't know why, and my ubuntu box is unavailable to test
<danishka> hi
<danishka> I would like to contribute to edubuntu l10n
<danishka> pls assist me to start the work
#edubuntu 2009-01-05
<mcohen> does anyone know how to turn off ome applets that take up memory, make sure they don't start when the computer starts
<mcohen> like nm-applet and update-notifier
<crimsun> disable them in the session
<mcohen> I can kill them, how do I disable them?
<crimsun> System> Preferences> Sessions
<crimsun> or, you could remove their desktop files from /etc/xdg/autostart/
<mcohen> if I'm using xubuntu, I installed edubuntu-desktop which installs ubuntu-desktop
<mcohen> that means I now have gnome on my machine right?
<crimsun> yes
<mcohen> ah k, I can disable gnome startup services then
<mcohen> in the interest of lowering memory footprint
 * LaserJock reads Brainstorm and gets depressed
<mike_> hey there, anyone wanna help me out with a problem
<LaserJock> mike__: if you throw out your question somebody may be able to help you
<nubae> LaserJock: why is kitten and klettres not in edubuntu
<nubae> both are in main
<nubae> wait kiten is universe, but klettres is in main
<nubae> should be in edubuntu seed
<LaserJock> nubae: what release?
<nubae> intrepid even
<nubae> http://appnr.com/package/klettres
<LaserJock> there were some historical reasons I believe
<nubae> ok, so maybe for jaunty it should be in there?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<LaserJock> we need to make sure it's not dropped from KDE
<nubae> I'm getting another rule then, just cause its in main, don't mean it goes in edubuntu :p
<LaserJock> that's true
<LaserJock> it has to be in the seed
<nubae> right, just thinking about Jaunty now though
<LaserJock> if it's still in Main I think it should be in the seed
<LaserJock> so check to make sure it's still there and in Main in Jaunty
<nubae> it is
<nubae> 4:4.1.85-0ubuntu1: amd64 i386
<nubae> I thought a little more about linking something to the version, maybe we should link to the packages.ubuntu.com link?
<LaserJock> perhaps
<nubae> right well, hardy app list done now too
<nubae> I'll upload to the site
<LaserJock> cool
<nubae> in terms of a web editor replacement for screem, there is also kompozer and quanta, for me, both have had problems, but just thought I'd mention it since bluefish is not a wysiwyg editor
<LaserJock> yeah, we should look at what's the best
<LaserJock> I would say for each addition/replacement/removal we should start a thread on the mailing list
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> I gotta run, getting to be bed time
<LaserJock> cya tomorrow most likely
<billbalt> edubuntu addons don't  seem to work
<billbalt> How do I add the various edubuntu packages
<nubae> hmm, not very pacient
<nothingman> hi, all
<Ahmuck> good morning
<highvoltage> hi Ahmuck an LaserJockie
<LaserJock> highvoltage!
<LaserJock> how's my favorite South African?
<highvoltage> :D
<highvoltage> doing good thanks. just got out of the pool. the heat was killing me
<highvoltage> how are you doing LaserMan?
<LaserJock> the heat!
<LaserJock> it's been freezing here
<LaserJock> just above 0 C right now
<LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm surviving. still trying to finish the PhD and save the world ;-)
<highvoltage> LaserJock: wow, that's cold. we must swap some C's.
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it got to around -15 C at the coldest here so far this winter
<LaserJock> but my parents has -31 C
<LaserJock> anybody heard of "Shoes", a programming learning environment
<LaserJock> ?
<alkisg> http://shoooes.net/ - no, I've only heard of scratch, http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Linux_installer
<LaserJock> I was just reading an article on educational programming environments
<LaserJock> and they mentioned Scratch, Alice, and Shoes
<alkisg> This one? http://www.linux.com/feature/155203
<alkisg> I've only heard of scratch, it's very good, and better now that they have a linux version! :)
<LaserJock> yeah, that's the article
<LaserJock> what I liked about Shoes was it was written in Ruby
<LaserJock> Scratch is Squeak and Alice is Java
<LaserJock> Shoes also seems fairly open source
<alkisg> What I liked about scratch is its environment, I haven't tried it in a classroom yet but I think the kids will be interested in it. Fortunately with the new books we're teaching I'll get to try it next year.
<LaserJock> yeah, scratch is definitely more geared towards younger users
<LaserJock> I think shoes might be good for secondary
<alkisg> You know, I'm not yet sure what primary vs secondary vs high school is... Primary = ages 6 to 12, secondary = 12 to 14, and high school = 15 to 17? I'm teaching to 12-14 year old kids...
<alkisg> Also, there are some countries where primary = 6 to 10...
<LaserJock> secondary is supposed to be roughly high school
<LaserJock> I'm not sure where junior high would fit in exactly
<alkisg> ...so high school is 15 to 17? and junior high = 12 to 14?
<LaserJock> well, that's normally right in the US
<LaserJock> not sure in terms of primary, secondary, tertiary where junior high would fit
<LaserJock> we might want to put some age ranges on those
<alkisg> Ah, ok, so I'm not a secondary school teacher as I thought, I'm teaching in a junior high school! :) Good to know! :P
<LaserJock> well, I don't know exactly
<alkisg> I don't know if even age ranges will cover it. E.g. we use Lego with kids 12-14 years old, while other countries use Lego only on primary schools
<LaserJock> I know elementary would be primary and high school secondary, but the middle I don't know
<LaserJock> we might need to ask RichEd
<alkisg> Ah, I just asked my wife, she visited the US last year. We have 6 + 3 + 3 years in schools, while you have 5 years elementary, 3 middle school (=junior high) and 4 years high school
<Ahmuck> i'd like to see a python learning environment
<LaserJock> alkisg: that's right
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: that would be very cool indeed
<alkisg> Ahmuck: Yeah, me too.
<LaserJock> we did have work on a python teaching app that would "grade" python
<alkisg> Ahmuck: did you manage to solve your network problems?
<Ahmuck> not yet.  i dropped back to thin clients for the time being
<alkisg> Ah, ok
<Ahmuck> now that the fat client script is bug free, i'm going to try a test in a vm first
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: what were you going to use fat clients for?
<Ahmuck> then if i get good networking there, i may backup users directories and overwrite the system
<Ahmuck> artrage, blender, kdenlive, etc.
<LaserJock> and not do local apps?
<Ahmuck> what do local apps
<Ahmuck> SDL is a problem
<Ahmuck> i'm looking at a number of apps, and i've tried them on the tihin client side, and they don't work
<Ahmuck> but blender did not work on the fat client side either
<Ahmuck> i've got mixed feelings about ltsp
<alkisg> I think when multiseat is ready, it'll be much more powerfull than ltsp
<alkisg> But 'till then, ltsp is fine for non-graphic intensive applications
<Ahmuck> shoes looks so kewl
<Ahmuck> multiseat ?
<Ahmuck> i'm really after multi-seat
<Ahmuck> if i can't get that, then ltsp fat clients
<LaserJock> local apps should give you decent results for graphic-intensive apps though shouldn't it?
<Ahmuck> it may, i don't know.  i've not tried local apps
<Ahmuck> artrage is a windows program via wine
<Ahmuck> it's slower, but it does work
<LaserJock> I would think you'd try local apps before fat clients
<Ahmuck> really?
<Ahmuck> did nubae drop out of the fat client arena?
<Ahmuck> did i miss something?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<Ahmuck> one of the problems iwth thin clients is SDL
<Ahmuck> i'm having problems with that
<LaserJock> right, but local apps are local apps
<LaserJock> I would think it would help
<highvoltage> LaserJock: -15C? -31C? that's insane!
<nothingman> hey, you were talking about educational programming environments
 * highvoltage didn't realise such cold places can be inhabitable
<nothingman> Guido von Robot is one in python
<nothingman> I use that with my students
<nothingman> kind of fun, making up the worlds in it
<nothingman> a good challenge besides the actual instruction part
<LaserJock> nothingman: cool
<LaserJock> highvoltage: it's only that cold for a while
<nothingman> LaserJock, it's that cold where you live?
<nothingman> I mean, I'm in upstate NY, and it's not that bad here :-P
<nothingman> relatedly, has anyone seen today's XKCD?
<LaserJock> nothingman: it was that cold at my parents house in MT
<LaserJock> it was -15C here
<Ahmuck> LaserJock: point me to local apps?
<Ahmuck> btw, shoooes looks really neat
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: stgraber would be the best to talk to
<highvoltage> nothingman: today's xkcd was awesome :)
<LaserJock> I haven't had "spit goes clunk" but I've had it basically freeze before hitting the ground
<Ahmuck> is there a place to download them?
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: download what?
<Ahmuck> er, download "local app:
<LaserJock> it's a part of LTSP
<Ahmuck> ack, my typing is terrible today
<Ahmuck> ah, ok.  i'm fumble around
<LaserJock> you basically install the apps into the chroot
<LaserJock> so they are available on the client
<nothingman> LaserJock: isn't that just the fat client Ahmuck was trying to make?
<nothingman> I might be confused
<LaserJock> they're a bit different I think
<LaserJock> a fat client has a hard drive and a local install of the OS
<LaserJock> but often gets $HOME from the server and things like that
<Ahmuck> um, not nubae's fat client
<Ahmuck> it uses the proc and mem from the client, but everything else is done on the server
<LaserJock> ah, then he's actually doing local apps
<Ahmuck> and it can use a swap partition on the client as well
<nothingman> oic
<Ahmuck> iirc, local apps allow you to customize the app menu so that you can have fat and thin clients booting
<LaserJock> well, my history of it is that what you call "fat clients" is local apps
<LaserJock> which includes the app menu working right
<LaserJock> the use of fat clients I'm used to is to mean a client which has a hard drive and locally installed OS, but relies on the server for some services
<LinusU> Hellu
<LinusU> Anyone that can help with local apps on ltsp?
<LaserJock> LinusU: you can ask your question here or perhaps even better would be #ltsp
<LinusU> thx
#edubuntu 2009-01-06
<nothingman> hi, all
<nothingman> someone have a problem already so I can watch the discussion!
<nothingman> anyone doing anything new and interesting with Edubuntu?
<nothingman> hi, all
<Ahmuck> good morning
<sbalneav> Morning all
<highvoltage> morning sbalneav
<RichEd> hi guys
<LaserJock> RichEd: hi
<nubae> greets LaserJock, RichEd
<LaserJock> nubae: kpercentage has been removed from KDE Edu, that's why it's not in Jaunty
<nubae> Oh? I didn't ask about kpercentage though
<nubae> :-)
<nubae> I asked about klettres
<nubae> but I shall keep that in mind when making the jaunty app list
<nubae> did u get my message yesterday?
<LaserJock> bah, i was thinking you said kpercentage in your email but you said kgeography, my bad
<nubae> oh and kgeography too yeah
<LaserJock> nubae: not sure, what was your message?
<nubae> please can u review: http://www.edubuntu.org/applications
<nubae> very short intro, and probably slightly incorrect
<nubae> but links to both intrepid and hardy are now there
<LaserJock> yeah, it's a great start
<LaserJock> we can probably tweak some of the wording
<nubae> yeah thought so
<nubae> somehow we need to make it attractive to app creators and users to get involved
<LaserJock> I'd like to work a bit on the application list format
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> I'd like to try to shorten things up a bit
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if/how we can do it
<nubae> I sent a couple mails to the list too, concerning other apps and screem replacement, u probably saw
<nubae> well, what are your ideas?
<LaserJock>  the descriptions are like double spaced
<LaserJock> and I think it wouldn't hurt to bring  out "category" "homepage" and "version" more
<LaserJock> like maybe bold them or something
<nubae> yeah true
<LaserJock> another option
<nubae> maybe category should be under version
<LaserJock> we could group by category
<nubae> ok, right now its alphabetical
<nubae> I dont think there are enough categories to warrant that right now
<LaserJock> well
<nubae> many categories have only one app
<LaserJock> but perhaps we should group by primary, secondary, etc.
<LaserJock> as really, the category is somewhat redundant
<LaserJock> because you have the short description and the long description
<nubae> yeah or have a recommended age group
<LaserJock> it should be pretty clear quickly what the app is for, maybe we don't need that "category" thing
<LaserJock> since there's only one or a very few in each
<nubae> hmm, right
<LaserJock> RichEd: do you have age ranges for pre-school, primary, secondary, tertiary ? we're finding in some places it makes more sense to use age ranges
<nubae> we need to try thinking like teachers here
<nubae> how would u search for something u need
<nubae> age-range is more international for sure
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure I'm wanting to search so much on this page
<nubae> ok, browse then :-)
<LaserJock> I'm wanting an overview of what is offered
<LaserJock> so I guess if I was a primary school teacher i'm wanting to see primary school apps
<nubae> or apps for 4-9 years
<nubae> ok, so we list the apps from lowest age to highest?
<LaserJock> that might not be a bad way to go
<nubae> and then we can make anchors for primary (age group 4-9), secondary, etc
<nubae> on the top of the page
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> that seems the most logical to me
<nubae> I think we should expand the intro page a bit too
<LaserJock> perhaps
<nubae> with a better explanation of how/why the apps have been chosen
<LaserJock> my general philosophy is to keep pages simple with little prose
<LaserJock> mostly bullet points and links
<nubae> yeah agreed...
<nubae> the downloads page needs -serious- simplifying
<LaserJock> we can also say how people can recommend apps
<nubae> right
<nubae> we can do like wine does... people recommend apps, and once a certain number have recommended, they include it
<nubae> so it goes by popularity
<LaserJock> well ...
<nubae> they also get people to donate that way, lol, but guess thats not possible with edubuntu
<LaserJock> we can't really go on popularity
<LaserJock> though it's a factor
<nubae> well, lets say a teacher really wants a particular app in edubuntu, and with that increased support...
<LaserJock> some things are very popular but very difficult or sometimes impossible
<nubae> they can vote the app in, making a donation?
<nubae> I can see that being unpopular I guess
<LaserJock> well, we're not really set up for donations
<nubae> right, but thats not hard to do, the political part might be though
<nubae> donations can be setup via a paypal account quite easily
<LaserJock> well, but I mean I don't know where the donations would go, etc.
<nubae> to the people maintaining/supporting/coding the app in question
<LaserJock> well, that's a tricky thing :-)
<nubae> its to push the inclusion of it in main
<nubae> or in a general edubuntu pot
<nubae> that then gets socially distributed?
<LaserJock> I don't know
<LaserJock> in general Ubuntu has really stayed away from involving money
<nubae> I know... but edubuntu has no paid canonical employees anymore
<nubae> they get support from their support contracts
<nubae> so they do involve money indirectly
<nubae> well, I dont care so much, its just an idea, and it might get more people involved
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I know MOTU have struggled a bit with this
<LaserJock> it's hard when we're such a loose organization
<nubae> yeah, edubuntu would be easier I suppose though
<nubae> maybe we should bring it up at the meeting tomorrow?
<LaserJock> perhaps, though it would be unclear to me still who the money would go to
<LaserJock> you can certainly add it to the agenda if you like
<nubae> me too, but it can certainly go towards something
<nubae> we dont need to decide right away
<LaserJock> it would be nice if the Ubuntu Foundation was available for such things
<nubae> ok, I'll add to agenda
<nubae> how about adding new apps to be included for jaunty too?
<LaserJock> yes, we should discuss which ones to target
<nubae> ok, added both items to agenda
<nubae> oh... quick question about squeak, I noticed its in multiverse
<nubae> I thought it was in universe
<LaserJock> no, multiverse because it's not free
<nubae> it is now
<nubae> its totally free now
<LaserJock> supposedly
<LaserJock> but the packages we currently have are not
<nubae> no really, I've checked the licensing :-)
<nubae> oh, ok
<LaserJock> no really, I've checked the code ;-)
<nubae> this is the vm thing
<LaserJock> the squeak vm is not what I'd call great licensing
<nubae> yeah i know
<nubae> but they are able to include the source along with that
<LaserJock> but I'm done getting worked up about it ;-)
<LaserJock> well, I don't so much mind that issue actually
<nubae> yeah, they are not gonna change their ways.. its just a very important package is all
<LaserJock> but they were call ing things GPL that weren't
<LaserJock> they were including non-free patent-laden code and calling it GPL
<nubae> yeah i remember
<nubae> but they rewrote all those parts supposedly
<LaserJock> and when I asked the author about it he sent me a snotty email ;-)
<nubae> hehe, ok, but it shouldnt get personal
<LaserJock> however, it sounds as if Debian's got things worked out pretty well
<LaserJock> so we can take their package hopefully
<nubae> cool
<nubae> ok, about this MIR thing... should I go through the process for a particular app?
<LaserJock> well, we need to figure out what apps we'd like to get
<LaserJock> and then yeah, each one will need to go through the MIR
<nubae> yep, I sent an email to the list about that
<nubae> maybe add your 2 cents...
<LaserJock>  I will
<nubae> revive the list a bit :-)
<LaserJock> the replacements are a bit more tricky
<LaserJock> we have the issue of inertia
<nubae> hmm, I thought that would be easier... like u can give more reasoning for it
<nubae> say package x is buggy so we replace with better maintained package y
<LaserJock> well, it's easier to say "look, we don't have any app that does ..."
<nubae> ok, from that perspective I get too
<LaserJock> but when people have already been using the app, etc.
<LaserJock> and we're going to replace it
<LaserJock> we need a bit more thought, IMO
<LaserJock> for instance, you said kompozer was pretty buggy
<nubae> yeah, I've found it to crash
<nubae> but there is no replacement for it, its the only real WYSIWYG web editor
<nubae> there are lots of non-wysiwyg editors
<LaserJock> is it worse than screem? is it buggeir in different ways that are better/worse? is upstream responsive? etc.
<nubae> screem is not WYSIWYG
<nubae> and its as buggy as kompozer
<LaserJock> so bluefish is actually the proper replacement for screem?
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> kompozer is a new category of app
<nubae> although looking at launchpad, there are no open bugs with screem, but thats for sure cause no one uses it
<LaserJock> no  open bugs?!
<nubae> nope, well last open bug is in there from gutsy!
<LaserJock> screem has 21 open bugs
<nubae> oh wait
<nubae> looking in wrong place
<nubae> heh
<nubae> I looked in the package itself
<nubae> so kompozer has far less
<nubae> no sigsevs
<LaserJock> kompozer has 28 open bugs
<nubae> hmmm, where u seeing that?
<nubae> I only found 12
<LaserJock> with a rough count of 17 sigsevs
<LaserJock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kompozer
<jussi01> bug 263441
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263441 in kompozer "kompozer crashes in intrepid when opening the recent files menu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263441
<nubae> hmm I see 10 there, not 28
<alkisg> Amaya is another one
<nubae> yeah amaya is unusable... u tried it ever?
<alkisg> But I've used all of them, and all crashed so frequently that I had to switch to fckeditor
<nubae> bluefish is allright
<jussi01> how about quanta+?
<nubae> but yeah you're right, they all suck balls... I use wine+dreamweaver
<LaserJock> nubae: oh, you know what it is, the sigsevs are private bugs
<LaserJock> nubae: so I can see them and you can't :(
<nubae> ah :-)
<LaserJock> that's kinda dumb
<nubae> I was getting kinda confused... u're definitely seeing stuff I am not
<LaserJock> a person can get a really bad perception of a package that way
<nubae> why are sigsevs private?
<LaserJock> because they contain crash data
<LaserJock> which *may* contain personal info
<nubae> jussi01: quanta seems ok too
<LaserJock> once we verify that there isn't any we un-private them
<nubae> LaserJock: aaahhh :-)
<nubae> and that responsibility falls to u too?
<nubae> surely that is something u could load off to someone else
<LaserJock> well, to somebody who can see them anyway ;-)
<nubae> doesnt need your precious time
<LaserJock> well, that's why I need people to step up a bit in terms of development
<LaserJock> I *think* people in the bug-control team can see them, I don't think you need to be a full dev
<nubae> well... I've seen lots of people wanting to get involved, again, the process is a little bit mistifying
<nubae> how one officially becomes part of the edubuntu community I mean
<LaserJock> show up here :-)
<nubae> u know that will be only 5% of the mailing list, if that... not everyone knows or likes IRC
<LaserJock> or can even use IRC (port blocking)
<nubae> yeah indeed, school wise for sure
<nubae> I think it would be great to get students involved in this process
<alkisg> It may also be the opposite... younger people prefer IRC over mailing lists! :)
<nubae> lots of the tasks can be done by kids
<LaserJock> it's a tricky situation
<LaserJock> Ubuntu is very much developed on IRC
<LaserJock> Debian is mostly mailing lists
<nubae> we need to be in a position to allow a teacher to get his kids to tackle bugs and help the edubuntu community, I think it would be a great way to increase participation
<nubae> alkisg: ??
<LaserJock> for me personally, I prefer mailing lists as I can get to it when I can
<nubae> yeah and remember it.. irc often is discussion
<alkisg> nubae: haven't you seen 15-25 year old students? All IRC, no mailing lists...
<nubae> don't get me wrong, I think its been very valuable to do what have until now
<nubae> alkisg: yeah I meant, what do u think about getting your students involved in edubuntu community tasks
<nubae> its a great collaborative excercise
<alkisg> Ah, my students are 12-14 years old, can't really offer anything
<nubae> app testing, finding bugs and writing them up
<alkisg> Half of them don't even speak english
<alkisg> And all of them see linux for the first time...
<nubae> k... but in general it would be a good idea no?
<alkisg> I don't know. I thought about students offering to wikipedia or dictionaries, but bug sqashing? It may be too much for them...
<nubae> not squashing, reporting
<nubae> oh but they need launchpad accounts for that dont they?
<alkisg> Bug reporting could be done by teachers... It don't be reliable from students
<alkisg> Many developers ignore non-detailed bug reports, imagine what they'll do if students flood them with "app X hang"
<nubae> well as long as they say how it happened, its a start
<nubae> but maybe its too specialised yeah
<nubae> so quanta is kde's web development package
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> although they're waiting for a KDE 4 version
<nubae> and gnome has no official one?
<alkisg> A pity that komposer isn't updated any more
<nubae> whatcha mean?
<alkisg> nvu development stopped, and I think komposer only fixed a few bugs after nvu, nothing more
<alkisg> I don't think anyone is writing new code & producing new versions
<alkisg> It was the best of them (amaya, screem, bluefish, quanta etc)
<LaserJock> really?
<LaserJock> I thought kompozer was moving forward :(
<nubae> kompozer was supposed to be a replacement for nvu I thought
<LaserJock> nubae: are you in the edubuntu-bugs team
<LaserJock> ?
<nubae> no
<nubae> :-)
<nubae> I'll join
<LaserJock> I *think* that might let you see these private bugs
<nubae> k, just applied
<nubae> god, there are so many different edubuntu related lists
<nubae> some totally dead
<LaserJock> most
<nubae> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu/+members
<LaserJock> we have more LP teams than xubuntu or kubuntu I believe
<nubae> that was last updated like 2 years ago :-)
<nubae> and that looks like the official team, with the icon and everything
<nubae> and there seem to be lots of people trying to join....
<nubae> its no wonder we get so few volunteers
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> I think that's just a placeholder or something
<nubae> a placeholder that people are applying for
<LaserJock> well, that's common
<LaserJock> people just apply for *every* team in Launchpad
<alkisg> Hmmm... it turns out I was wrong: http://wysifauthoring.informe.com/forum/kompozer-progress-ae-linux-gtk-o2-14-dt1940.html
<alkisg> Someone is still working on Kompozer, good! :)
<nubae> ah good...
<nubae> are there any more hidden teams I should know about?
<nubae> :p
<LaserJock> hidden?
<nubae> well not obviously visible to me
<alkisg> Maybe someone could contact him to have the next Kompozer version ready for Jaunty? :P
<nubae> well thats not a bad idea, might give some drive
<nubae> ok, I applied for edubuntu-documentation too
<LaserJock> heh
<nubae> what is edubuntu-testers?
<LaserJock> a team for testing edubuntu?
<nubae> u can see most of these people joined due to ltsp
<LaserJock> edubuntu-members and edubuntu-bugs are the only teams that I know that actually do anything
<LaserJock> well, most of those teams are from the LTSP days
<nubae> yea
<nubae> can't we either disband them or fix the memberships?
<LaserJock> well, we were going to do that like a year ago
<LaserJock> but we never got around to it
<nubae> what does it require doing?
<LaserJock> I wanted to remove them, but other people felt that was harsh
<nubae> why?
<nubae> if they do nothing, it just confuses everyone
<LaserJock> because you're shutting down other peoples stuff
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if Launchpad would even let us do it
<nubae> but that would imply they do something
<LaserJock> a launchpad team doesn't have to do anything to exist
<nubae> I've noticed, but we should be able to spring clean
<Ahmuck> good afternoon nubae
<LaserJock> but we don't own those teams
<LaserJock> that's really the crux of the matter
<nubae> ok, so maybe we should mention no the website, which teams actually do something
<nubae> ?
<nubae> hi Ahmuck
<nubae> like on the community page say... these are the teams to apply to if you want to get involved
<nubae> so we have something half way official
<LaserJock> nubae: I think we could ping the owners to see if we can get them to clean up
<LaserJock> but otherwise, yeah, I think we just document which ones are official
<nubae> I think Oli is an admin on many of those
<LaserJock> some
<nubae> yeah some
<LaserJock> in the strategy doc I'm outlining the official teams
<nubae> k, cool
<LaserJock> hopefully that will help
<nubae> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu is not a placeholder
<nubae> its the main link u get when searching edubuntu in launchpad
<nubae> that should really change
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure what we can do about it
<nubae> cant we get the link changed to edubuntu members?
<nubae> it contains all the same people + the active ones
<LaserJock> alright, well #ubuntu-motu says that kompozer is dying and that there is going to be a replacement
<nubae> ah, k scratch that one then
<LaserJock> what link?
<nubae> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu
<LaserJock> oh, so you want to put a link to edubuntu-members or something from launchpad.net/~edubuntu
<LaserJock> ?
<nubae> right
<nubae> or u ping someone there and get yourself on that list to fix it
<nubae> then u could get edubuntu-members and bugsquad to be sub members of it
<LaserJock> or we actually use it for something
<nubae> right
<nubae> that would make the most sense, make that the hub that links the sub teams
<nubae> then we could put bugsquad, members, documentation, and website underneath it
<nubae> and manage it all properly
<LaserJock> http://www.bluegriffon.org/
<nubae> looks like seamonkey
<LaserJock> should
<LaserJock> hmm, we could make ~edubuntu a fanboy team
<LaserJock> and add in the official teams
<nubae> yeah... shall I add doing that to the agenda?
<LaserJock> sure
<nubae> k now we should have lots to talk about tomorrow ;-)
<LaserJock> so Xubuntu has: users, contributors, documentors, developers, council, and project lead
<nubae> sounds more organised than us :p
<LaserJock> they have more of everything than us :-)
<LaserJock> although they almost imploded during Hardy
<LaserJock> Cody wrote their strategy doc and because XPL and it's done much better
<nubae> because XPL?
<LaserJock> became
<LaserJock> Xubuntu Project Lead
<nubae> ah
<nubae> still only see 10 open bugs for komopzer... guess u need to be a dev too
<Ahmuck> is gimpshop still active?
<nubae> sure, seems the latest version was recently released
<Ahmuck> really?
<Ahmuck> let me check
<nubae> they're release schedule is quite unclear though
<Ahmuck> can u point me to where you found the latest version?
<Ahmuck> i can't seem to find it'
<LaserJock> Launchpad permissions are horrible
<LaserJock> even #launchpad can't tell me who get's to see private bugs
<nubae> heh
<LaserJock> the Ubuntu Bugmaster doesn't know either
<nubae> so much for decentralised bazaar style development
<nubae> Ahmuck: on gimpshop's page
<LaserJock> so tonyyarusso is the guy that packaged kompozer and generally takes care of it. we could ask him about his thoughts on getting it into Main
<LaserJock> the other thing we haven't considered a ton is moving Edubuntu to Universe
<LaserJock> or perhaps split
<LaserJock> we could keep the Ubuntu Education CD as Main but then provide official Universe bundles
<nubae> I think the latter is a good idea
<nubae> that way we have official well supported, and not so supported apps
<nubae> and it gives app makers a reason to keep their stuff updated
<nubae> their goal should be to get into main
<LaserJock> yeah, IMO, it's a good thing to shoot for
<nubae> and then edubuntu name makes sense
<nubae> ubuntu education cd, finally makes sense
<LaserJock> hmm, you're right
<nubae> its the official ubuntu education apps found in main
<LaserJock> "Edubuntu" == eduction in Ubuntu
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> wow, what a weird solutino
<nubae> but it makes total sense
<nubae> why did we not think of that till now
<LaserJock> "ubuntu Education CD" == specific subset of eductional package that are officially supported by canonical, etc.
<nubae> it totally makes sense and is not confusing
<nubae> how about that
<nubae> k, I'll add that to the agenda, and maybe we should put that into the strategy doc, as it seems important not to forget
<nubae> I feel like a lot of stuff is getting clearer today...
<LaserJock> well, it's not totally buttoned up for me yet
<nubae> no but actually advancing is already something
<LaserJock> we need to see how that would work for RichEd
<nubae> so for that to happen, edubuntu would have to be main+universe
<nubae> I think he'll actually like this proposition
<nubae> its sort of what he has wanted
<nubae> this way, canonical/ubuntu tightly controls the central edu apps, and edubuntu itself is a looser community that includes more edu apps
<nubae> loser, not loozer....
<LaserJock> I think looser
<LaserJock> but yeah, that sort of make sense
<LaserJock> so some technical details could be having ubuntu-edu-* being educational bundles from Main
<LaserJock> and edubuntu-* being eductional bundles from Universe
<nubae> I still don't think we should include every edu app in it though
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> the apps should still be handpicked
<LaserJock> yes
<LaserJock> just much broader
<nubae> yup, a general rule could be ubuntu-edu should have just one app per cat.
<nubae> and be in main of course
<LaserJock> well, this sort of makes sense
<LaserJock> I've been struggling a bit with the concept of "Edubuntu = community only"
<LaserJock> as well, our community does technical things
<LaserJock> it's a bit weird to have the community and the things it does having different names
<nubae> yep
<nubae> I think if u explain it this way to anyone they won't give u blank stares
<nubae> also, there is a clear technical split
<nubae> its not just semantics
<LaserJock> right, yeah
<LaserJock> so we'll see what RichEd thinks about that
<LaserJock> I think he'll like it
<nubae> yep, hopefully he'll hit the meeting... I think he will too, I think it will box everything in nicely
<nubae> he can go back to canonical with that and they'll be able to define clearly what they are responsible for
<nubae> and say yay or nay
<LaserJock> I'm still a bit curious how Canonical plans to support these apps without employing any devs :-)
<nubae> heh... especially if the edubuntu part gets donations...
<nubae> cause u couldn't justify those going to main apps
<nubae> still I'm sure if suddenly they got contracts for multiple schools they'd put a dev back on ubuntu-edu right quick
<LaserJock> I'm not so sure, but maybe
<LaserJock> hmm, this new thinking would make the app lists on edubuntu.org much nicer as well
<LaserJock> as we would probably want to list both sets
<nubae> yep, kinda centralise that as a definition
<nubae> move away from the idea of just the addon-cd
<nubae> we could include the universe apps on the cd as recommends
<nubae> u know, getting the ~edubuntu page back really makes sense too, because it would give a clear idea of the volunteers inolved and their areas of activity
<LaserJock> well, I'm not sure about putting Universe stuff on the CD
<nubae> well, we have the space
<nubae> I guess it depends on if canonical wants to ship or not
<nubae> the website, btw, still mentions they ship the cd
<LaserJock> I think we'd fill it up fairly quickly, and I sort of want to keep that as a target
<LaserJock> edubuntu is really just strange :-)
<LaserJock> it's more "supported" than Xubuntu, Mythbuntu, or Ubuntu Studio
<LaserJock> yet you hardly ever see it around in listings of *buntu
<nubae> yeah well one reason is its hard to define what it is
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> it's not a distro anymore
<nubae> although it kinda is with edubuntu-artwork and edubuntu-desktop
<LaserJock> it's a hybrid!
 * LaserJock thinks of a movie trailer intro
<LaserJock> "half distro, half addon layer  .... Edubuntu has come to take over  your school!!!"
<nubae> lol
<nubae> coming soon on a desktop near you
<Lns> Does anyone have information on how specifically schools in the U.S. get their funding every year (dates, processes, etc.)? I'm trying to gather information on this so in the future i can better market to them things like Edubuntu, LTSP, etc
<nubae> LaserJock: might know, ask the question again :-)
<LaserJock> what question?
<LaserJock> I'm gone 2 seconds an people are asking questions? :-)
<Lns> nubae: oh i think mine.. Lns Does anyone have information on how specifically schools in the U.S. get their funding every year (dates, processes, etc.)? I'm trying to gather information on this so in the future i can better market to them things like Edubuntu, LTSP, etc (so far i've found this: http://www.ed-data.k12.ca.us/articles/article.asp?title=Guide to California School Finance System )
<LaserJock> I don't know a ton of specifics
<LaserJock> but generally you have the June-July fiscal year and funding through their state budgets
<Lns> LaserJock: ok, thanks.. yeah i see states fund a LOT of the budget (by far the most)
<LaserJock> each state is likely to be a little bit different
<LaserJock> but generally I think the general concept is the same
<LaserJock> however, I'm not an educator exactly so don't rely on me ;-)
<Lns> LaserJock: no, the more info the better. that site i linked to has lots of good info as well
<nubae> that kind of info would of course be useful to put up somewhere
<nubae> as a way to get edubuntu deployed
<LaserJock> well, at one point we had a "team" of people interested in advocay/marketing
<Lns> LaserJock: i'd be interested in joining that team if it ever comes around again
<nubae> I thought thats what RichEd did?
<LaserJock> seems like at some point we had people for everything ;-)
<nubae> lol
<LaserJock> well, basically for Canonical yes
<Lns> hehe!
<LaserJock> ultimately he's trying to bring in business from the eductional sector for Canonical
<Lns> maybe this could be a good topic for tomorrow's meeting?
<nubae> k, logical
<nubae> what topic exactly?
<LaserJock> I think we really need to try to start small
<LaserJock> one of the biggest problems I've seen with Edubuntu over the few years I've been here is that we very easily overreach
<Lns> nubae: the topic of edubuntu advocacy in schools
<nubae> Lns: by all means add it to the page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda#preview
<nubae> LaserJock: I agree... I think the 2 main things that need to be talked about are the edubuntu (main or universe) and ~edubuntu launchpad readjusment
<Lns> ill leave it out till next meeting then probably
<nubae> since they kind of create the infrastructure for the future and for how/where people get involved
<LaserJock> Lns: no, it's fine to add it
<LaserJock> we'll see if we have tim
<LaserJock> +e
<Lns> k
<nubae> LaserJock: did u ask on #launchpad whether we can get control of ~edubuntu?
<LaserJock> we have control of ~edubuntu
<LaserJock> in the sense that ogra owns it
<nubae> ah k
<Lns> done
<LaserJock> but several of the other edubuntu teams are not owned by any of edubuntu devel team
<Lns> man i love the history -> recently closed tabs feature in ff
<LaserJock> or edubuntu council
<LaserJock> Lns: yes, it is nice
<LaserJock> what would be ideal is to have an ~edubuntu-council team that would own all the other edubuntu teams
<LaserJock> so we can then do whatever needs to be done
<nubae> yep
<Lns> For those interested, here's just a bit more on how schools receive their funding (in the US anyway): http://www.edsource.org
<nubae> are there incentives to use open source to get funding?
<Lns> nubae: not that i've researched yet, but im sure there are some, way deep in someone's filing cabinet somewhere ;)
<Lns> the cost benefits of using F/OSS (as well as a centralized system such as LTSP) are quite obvious, however, it wouldn't be difficult to communicate that to any district board
<nubae> I wish there was a reasonable desktop tool that could do what google calendar does
<Lns> nubae: sunbird?
<nubae> looked at that, but it doesnt do the calendar sharing like google calendar does, and tries to do a bunch more stuff that really isn't needed... but I haven't looked into in detail
<Lns> nubae: sure it does (do sharing), using webdav. Its just a calendar, pretty focussed on that actually..ive been using it for years
<nubae> the best would be some app that imports google calendars
<nubae> have u used google calendar before?
<Lns> nubae: no
<Lns> never needed to ;)
<Lns> but if googlecal can export calendars into .ics, you can import it into sunbird
<nubae> well the thing is google calendar is also integrated with most mobile phones
<Lns> lol..sounds like you want to stick with google cal ;)
<nubae> and most people use google calendar so u can easily share your calendar with them
<nubae> no I want a desktop app that does the same thing :-)
<nubae> dont want to keep having to go to a website
<Lns> nubae: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/sunbird/addon/4631
<nubae> hmmm interesting
<Lns> ;) that was approximately 2 seconds of googling. :p
<nubae> well I was more looking for actual apps, rather than an extension to sunbird... but point taken
<Lns> http://www.google.com/search?q=google+calendar+sunbird&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
<Lns> i see a GCALDaemon that does syncing automatically
<alkisg> nubae, you may directly use google calendars from evolution
<nubae> unfortunately, when u go offline it looses the details though
<alkisg> Either read/write (not really stable) or read-only (very stable)
<Lns> nubae: well what use is google calendar when you're offline?
<nubae> to see my schedule
<nubae> and other people's... it should save them locally
<alkisg> It doesn't loose the data when you go offline
<nubae> sunbird does
<alkisg> (talking about evolution)
<Lns> evolution suuuuuucks :p imho sorry
<nubae> I've looked at evolution and I didn't like its integration, dont remember why
<Lns> i don't like linux apps that try to be windows apps
<alkisg> Well, I think what it tries to do is just fine, I love the desktop integration.
<alkisg> It's most major problem is the html editor for the messages, it kinda sucks
<alkisg> They're looking to replace it with a webkit-based one
<Lns> alkisg: can you give some integration examples?
<alkisg> Well, I click on the time and I see my appointments, birthdays etc that I declared in google calendar without even opening evolution
<nubae> what is nice with sunbird is that it integrates with xmpp-salut
<alkisg> Also it integrates with pidgin, sharing/updating contacts
<nubae> I dont care about pidgin... I want empathy...
<alkisg> And of course with the file manager etc, sending files as attachments directly from nautilus
<nubae> :-)
<alkisg> I saw your blog entry, I suppose it'll be nice when it's ready
<alkisg> But I think it's kind of early, even for jaunty
<nubae> I've been using for a while now, and it crashes less often than pidgin
<nubae> requires some tweaking to get everything working
<nubae> but when its setup its beautiful
<alkisg> You're using it as an IRC client also?
<nubae> yup
<nubae> works fantastically
<alkisg> I've never seen pidgin crash, I guess I'm lucky!
<nubae> take a look at my screenshots
<nubae> yeah u are lucky... pidgin used to crash on me daily
<alkisg> I used to miss the mic/camera support, but I don't need it much lately, so I'm not in a hurry to switch to empathy
<Lns> weird, i use pidgin all the time and it never crashes on me either
<Lns> gets disconnected from services sometimes, but that;s the nature of not using an "approved" client to said services
<Lns> alkisg: wow, that is nice to see your appts. in gnome calendar thingie
<Lns> of course i just ctl+alt+f1 to see sunbird anyway, its always in my workspace #1
<nubae> I dont see where u can import google calendar in evolution
<nubae> maybe I'm blind
<alkisg> Lns, what about contact syncrhonization with your mobile phone? Can you do that with thunderbird?
<Lns> alkisg: doubtful, though it does have ldap support for contacts
<alkisg> Nubae, you don't import it, you go new calendar and declare that it's a google calendar
<Lns> i wouldn't use that anyway.. i dont want my work contacts in my personal phone :p
<alkisg> You could split them in different categories, and only sync your personal contacts
<Lns> alkisg: tbh i'd rather use an ldap source if i was looking for a global contact db
<Lns> that way it integrates with anything at all that supports ldap
<nubae> does it copy all my google calendars... ie the shared ones too?
<alkisg> nubae, each calendar is a seperate one
<nubae> so u have add each one seperately?
<alkisg> So you declare the ones you want
<alkisg> Yup
<nubae> hmm, but I dont have username and password for many of the shared calendars
<nubae> what I'm asking is... I subscribe to another calendar from google calendar
<nubae> do I then see it in evolution?
<alkisg> No, you have to declare it there also
<alkisg> Without username/password, just the url
<alkisg> But in this case, it's read only
<nubae> alkisg: that doesn't seem to work
<alkisg> That's declared as webcal, not google calendar
<nubae> under name I put the name of the calendar (olpcaustria.org in this case)
<nubae> then click ok, and nothing shows
<nubae> oh
<nubae> but the calendar is a shared google calendar
<alkisg> I've been using it for 7-8 months now, it works fine. But I also have difficulties remembering how I did it in the first place! :P :D
<alkisg> Yes, there's an .ics link for it, isn't there?
<alkisg> E.g. I'm using a "Greek holidays" google shared calendar
<nubae> this then: ID de Calendar: 86c82lk0g9qb3bk04tmrrg04gs@group.calendar.google.com
<nubae> ?
<alkisg> You should be able to see the .ics file if you go to its properties in google
<alkisg> Let me try it...
<nubae> nah u can download a .ics file though
<alkisg> E.g. this is the URL for Greek holidays: http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/greek__el%40holiday.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics
<alkisg> Yes, this is what you put for read-only web calendars, just the .ics file
<alkisg> Evolution then caches a copy and shows it locally
<nubae> but then I need to download that every time
<alkisg> For read-write calendars you need username/password
<alkisg> No, it caches it
<nubae> why not give me an address then, why make me download it?
<alkisg> So it works offline etc
<nubae> oh wait found it
<nubae> its an ICAL link
<alkisg> You don't have to download it, evolution downloads it for you
<nubae> they dont call it .ics
<nubae> ok, still missing something here... whats the address then: webcal://http:// doesn't seem right
<alkisg> No. Let me run evolution with an english UI...
<nubae> oh wait got it
<nubae> just need to take out http://
<nubae> now I believe you, lol :p
<alkisg> OK... the nice thing is that if you click at the time, you may see your appointments, even the days where you have programmed something are bold etc, very nice
<nubae> yeah its nice, ok, now its usable, thanks alkisg :-) learn something new every day
<alkisg> OK, tommorow we have "fog": how to clone 30 PCs in 30 minutes :P
<nubae> fog?
<alkisg> http://www.fogproject.org/ - but it's for tomorrow! :P :D
<nubae> u part of their team or what?
<alkisg> no - nothing like that, it's just a very nice project, and I was joking that it would be what I would teach you the next day (about the "you learn something every day" that you said)
<nubae> :p ah :-)
<Lns> !o
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about o
<Lns> awww..o is for ogra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111one
<nubae> only the ltsp bot knows that
<nubae> I believe :-)
<Lns> hehe
<nubae> Lns: u part of edubuntu members?
<Lns> nubae: iirc yes.. on lp?
<nubae> yah
<nubae> https://launchpad.net/~edubuntu-members/+members
<nothingman> hi, nubae!
<nubae> hi nothingman
<nothingman> I've been hoping to run into you
<nubae> how can I help u
<nothingman> j/w: how did you come to be so involved with edubuntu?
<nubae> Lns: u should apply, as tomorrow the council should decide if u get approved or not...
<nothingman> I've been reading your page and some of the pages of people contributing
<nubae> nothingman: I feel its important to contribute to education through open source projects, so I do what I can
<nubae> Lns: u're part of edubuntu bugsquad
<Lns> nubae: done
<nubae> funny to put a face to the name
<nubae> most people don't have pics on their profiles :-)
<Lns> hehe
<Lns> its important to do that..you know, since after all, we're human, not bits ;)
<nubae> yeah :-)
<nothingman> nubae: you don't have any ties to education otherwise?
<nubae> yes I do... I've been a teacher, IT consultant, OLPC volunteer and moodle hacker...
<nothingman> I noticed you had a get-together in Maine; I'm in NY - do you live in New England?
<nubae> so I do a little bit of everything as long as it contains IT and education
<nothingman> neat
<nubae> me, get together in Maine?... nah u must be thinking of the ltsp hackfest
<nothingman> I'm a tech teacher/admin for two catholic schools in my area
<nothingman> yeah
<nubae> no, I'm located in Europe
<nubae> Vienna, Austria
<nothingman> huh
<nubae> nothingman: cool, u should get involved with edubuntu, we need folks to contribute
<nothingman> yeah, would love to
<nothingman> can I call myself a "beginner coder"?
<nothingman> I would love to help document
<nubae> u can call yourself what u like :-)
<nothingman> I think I'd be helpful getting "regular" teachers to be able to use the software
<nubae> hang around this channel when u can... and tomorrow we have a developer meeting at 18 utc
<nubae> yeah we need help in lots of areas
<nothingman> good deal
<nothingman> I can't tomorrow night; have to work my part-time job
<nothingman> but I'll check the log on your habari
<nubae> ah k.. well u can always check the logs
<nubae> thats for #ltsp
<nubae> there should be a log on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Edubuntu
<nothingman> right
<nothingman> I thought you had a link on your site
<nothingman> but OK
<nothingman> oic
<nothingman> never mind, I got it
<nubae> to #ltsp yes, but thats #ubuntu-meeting
<nothingman> I will
<nothingman> We have a lot of laptops whose hard drives are dying
<nubae> yeah that happens
<nubae> usually just after the warrant expires :-)
<nothingman> ideally, I would install something to an SD card or USB stick, but I don't know of a device older than a netbook that boots from SD, and the kids'd break a thumb drive
<nothingman> right
<nubae> hardware companies are very tricky that way
<nothingman> but they're *nice*
<nothingman> decent intel graphics, 256MB RAM, SD slots, KVMS...
<nubae> if they contain SD drives, they should boot from them
<nubae> maybe u need an updated bios
<nubae> the other option is set them up as ltsp clients
<nothingman> wireless, but of course that's useless to boot from, so useless as clients
<nothingman> yeah, I have
<nothingman> I'm trying to get two servers going for one school (one down) and one for the other (a nightmare)
<nothingman> any idea how to update h2insyde BIOSes?
<nothingman> they're nexlink computers
<nubae> nope but a search on the net should bring up some results
<nothingman> this is a question for all takers because google reveals nothing
<nubae> try the homepage of the computer companies website
<nothingman> yeah, that was fruitless, too
<nubae> hmm strange
<nothingman> they don't even have a support page for the model (now 4-5yrs old, tbf)
<nubae> what about using those new tiny usb sticks, the ones that hardly stick out
<nubae> I've got one that is just the length of the usb slot, so u can't hardly see it
<nothingman> yeah, how much are those?
<nothingman> I'm now being told that we don't have much money for hardware
<nubae> you're a school, of course u don't have money for hardware :-)
<nubae> I'd guess about 10-20 dollars a piece
<nothingman> last year the interim principle wrote checks like crazy if I asked for anything
<nothingman> I can't seem to find one
<nubae> http://www.memorysuppliers.com/usb-drive-smiles.html
<nubae> something like that
<nothingman> yeah
<nothingman> good prices there
 * LaserJock reads backscroll
 * nubae was recruiting :-)
<LaserJock> nothingman: we'd love to have you get involved with edubuntu
<LaserJock> hmm, there's a lot we need to do
<nubae> yeah, that list of tasks will be useful
<nubae> but really the best place would be with the edubuntu members page or some such
<LaserJock> well, we need to get some things together
#edubuntu 2009-01-07
<nubae> so being a member of edubuntu bugsquad means one gets all bug reports from a seed in edubuntu :-)
<nubae> straight to one's email box
<nubae> love it
<LaserJock> well, we have to specify the packages, but yeah
<nubae> I suppose its the only way to keep updated
<LaserJock> they don't change all that often
<LaserJock> so it generally works
<nothingman> sorry, had to leave the library
<nothingman> now I'm home and on to stay
<nothingman> so where's that list of tasks?
<LaserJock> nothingman: we're still building it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
<LaserJock> nothingman: what kinds of things are you interested in?
<nubae> but for one, we could do with adding recommended apps in particular areas to the edubuntu wiki
<nubae> with a comparison to what one would normally use under windows and what the replacement app is under linux
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> I think we really need to target price concsious windows users looking for alternatives
<nubae> thats why I think wubi is important on the cd too
<nothingman> whose site is titled, "Careful with that axe, Eugene!"?
<nubae> ?
<LaserJock> nothingman: that's sbalneav's
<nubae> ah :-)
<nothingman> gotcha
<nothingman> have any of you heard of the Syracuse, NY company making "Fiddlehead" machines?
<nothingman> basically multiseat Linux with a python script to load VirtualBox with any OS inside
<LaserJock> I've not heard of that
<nothingman> now that I'm home, I got one of the laptops so I could enter the serial number on nexlink's web site
<nothingman> "no downloads found" is the only reply I get for typing it in
<nothingman> does anyone know who makes the H2Insyde BIOSes?  my laptops use it, and some netbooks do
<nothingman> the Acer Aspire One, for instance
<LaserJock> nothingman: I don't, do you have an Aspire One?
<nothingman> no, but I work at RadioShack, and we have one there
<nothingman> so I've been studying it like mad
<LaserJock> cool
<nothingman> oh, never mind
<nothingman> the stupid logo has a circle
<nothingman> it's also out of order
<nothingman> I thought maybe it was h2o insyde
<nothingman> it's "insyde h2o"
<LaserJock> I've been reading Christopher Dawsons ZDNet Education blog
<LaserJock> he just got one
<LaserJock> http://education.zdnet.com/?p=2018
<nubae> I tested a couple of them for olpc.at
<nubae> runs ubuntu real fast and works wonderfully with sugar
<nubae> best netbook on the market right now
<LaserJock> nubae: have you tried the Dell Mini 9 as well?
<nubae> nope...
<nothingman> nice
<nothingman> so, I installed Ubuntu LTSP from the Alternative disk
<nothingman> onto an older Dell
<nothingman> plenty of RAM, Intel graphics
<nothingman> it freezes when I log in
<nothingman> any thoughts
<LaserJock> nothingman: on the client or on the server?
<nothingman> on the server, actually
<LaserJock> hmm, that doesn't sound good
<LaserJock> you might google around a bit for the Dell model  and ask #ubuntu
<LaserJock> i gotta run though so I'm not much help :(
<nothingman> no prob
<nothingman> was nice chatting!
<nothingman> my email's joshuaalm AT liamg.moc
<nothingman> I know the bot's working, so...
<LaserJock> == Edubuntu meeting in 1hr! ==
<nubae1> :-)
<LaserJock> I thought it was going to be in like 4 hours, don't know what I was thinking
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Here?  Or in #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> in #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> so it gets logged there
 * LaserJock frantically trying to finish the strategy doc
<LaserJock> everybody ready for the meeting?
<nubae1> yup
<sbalneav> LaserJock: Ready, willing and able
<LaserJock> ok everybody ---> #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> LaserJock: pong
<RichEd> and a happy new year etc.
<Lns> is this chan like, hanging out in the hallway during class?
<sbalneav> Smokers hallway
<Lns> heh
<Ahmuck> meeting now ?
<Ahmuck> here ?
<LaserJock> in #ubuntu-meeting
<LaserJock> alkisg:  ^^
<alkisg> Ah, right, thanks! :)
<LaserJock> I'm gonna have to go mostly IRC-silent for a while
<LaserJock> I really really gotta get this dissertation done and IRC is a wonderful time sink
<LaserJock> I'll be in good email contact though
<LaserJock> nubae: this is part of my "get edubuntu-devel jumpstarted" plan ;-)
<Ahmuck> sorry, i had to step away
<Ahmuck> from the meeting
<LaserJock> calimer: you around?
<calimer> yep, hi!
<LaserJock> calimer: I'm just watching the Sandbox youtube tutorial
<LaserJock> very nifty stuff
<calimer> ah awesome
<calimer> btw we have an edubuntu version just sitting and waiting
<LaserJock> a package?
<calimer> I really want it in there but the person packaging it is taking a while
<calimer> this is a version that meets debian free standards
<LaserJock> do you know if the person was able to get a package onto REVU?
<calimer> they just have been "busy" I guess, for some time
<calimer> I think you gave me a bunch of recommendations previously that I wrote down as far as people that might help package it
<calimer> I need to track them down
<calimer> I have personally used it to teach in various schools and the kids LOVE it, and this is elementary kids to college
<LaserJock> cool yeah, let's target getting that into Universe for Jaunty
<calimer> if you check out the sandbox interview there is some work from the kids at the summer camp
<Ahmuck> link to video ?
<calimer> I don't know what that means but I'm on board!
<calimer> here is the tutorial
<calimer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g44Ww2bg2_E
<LaserJock> Feature Freeze is Feburary 19th so we need a package a bit before then
<calimer> and here is the interview
<calimer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WztnXKda4fI
<calimer> if you have any specific e-mail addresses I can hit I will send it out today
<calimer> as a note I started working on this for kids that were in my after school program at an elementary school
<calimer> so for me the reward really is just getting it to the kids
<LaserJock> calimer: basically we need to get the package up for review by the MOTU before the 19th, preferably at least a week before
<calimer> well I have the zip just sitting there, it just needs to be packaged
<calimer> and maybe 2.3 can get packaged in the non free version?
<sbalneav> LaserJock: You pingied me?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, just wanted to catch up
<calimer> or repo i mean
<sbalneav> I'm at work atm, you gonna be on tonight?
<LaserJock> calimer: how non-free is it? can we distribute it freely?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah
<calimer> 2.3 has some content that doesn't fit the debian free license
<calimer> but yeah you can distribute it freely
<LaserJock> ok, then I think that should be ok for Multiverse
<calimer> I also came across an awesome site recently that has all debian free textures
<calimer> so I want to update the debian free version with those textures if I can
<LaserJock> I would suggest first doing the free one, then the non-free version should be pretty easy
<calimer> openfootage.net I think for anyone else
<calimer> is there anyone you know that you think would do it?
<calimer> the packages from my end are all set
<LaserJock> let me poke #ubuntu-motu a little
<calimer> but they need to be converted into the linux packaging deal that I don't know much about
<calimer> I should probably update the code database for the free one at some point
<calimer> it might take some time though
<LaserJock> calimer: do you have a download link for your dfsg-free version?
<LaserJock> calimer: is it possible to create the free version from your regular version?
<calimer> not a public one but yeah its on my webpage, let me grab the link
<calimer> its kinda old codebase wise
<calimer> but I don't know how long it would take me to update it
<calimer> and this is a lot better than nothing
<calimer> and anyone if they really like it they can just get the 2.3 version :D
<calimer> http://platinumarts.net/sandboxlite2.1TEST1.zip
<LaserJock> now this version pretty much is just missing "content" stuff, right?
<calimer> yeah it basically has all the non debian free content removed
<calimer> and it is an older codebase
<LaserJock> so Sauerbraten and Cube2 source is debian free?
<calimer> yeah zlib
<calimer> for some reason that version that page seems like it is dated much older than it should be
<calimer> er
<calimer> that file I mean
<calimer> but I'm pretty sure that's where I put the updated version
<calimer> I had to update the license to meet all the good ol debian free stuff
<calimer> and had some help
<LaserJock> there's still some stuff that we might need to take care of
<calimer> yeah that's fine I'm willing to do whatever
<LaserJock> how do I build this thing? :-)
<calimer> there is a makefile
<calimer> in src
<LaserJock> ok right, I see it
<LaserJock> calimer: you might want to email ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<calimer> okay
<LaserJock> I'd love to package this up for you but I really just don't have time unfortunately
<calimer> how long does it usually take?
<LaserJock> that varies tremendously
<LaserJock> from real fast to ..... forever :-)
<LaserJock> but I'll try to put some pressure on it ;-)
<calimer> I just want to get it out to the gremlins :)
<LaserJock> yeah
<calimer> I get to watch them use it first hand and see how happy they get, both boys and girls
<calimer> so it is really rewarding to hear about other kids enjoying it too
<calimer> going to put that message to the ubuntu list on the todo
<calimer> I think if I can update the codebase that'd be awesome
<calimer> even if it has textures that aren't super pretty at least it has all the features
<calimer> and people can always add in their own easily
<calimer> relatively easily anyway :D
<LaserJock> well, getting something in helps
<LaserJock> people can try it out, get excited, etc.
<calimer> yeah and even just check out the videos
<LaserJock> even if it's slightly outdated to start with
<LaserJock> it's fairly easy to update things
<calimer> yeah people were into much older versions of what was in that code
<calimer> especially if we can make it obvious that 2.3 also exists
<calimer> my local library is interested too and I want to try to get it in the local museum because it can be used to recreate historical landscapes
<calimer> people could take a 3D tour through historical sites
#edubuntu 2009-01-08
<nothingman> hi, all
<LaserJock> hi!
<Lns> hey nothingman
<nothingman> what's new tonight?
<nothingman> I had forgotten that the dev meeting was at 6, sorry
<nothingman> was doing dishes; fixing cousin's laptop
<Lns> heh, im fixing my cousins pc too
<LaserJock> nothingman: hopefully in a bit I'll have meeting minutes out
<nothingman> stupid AT&T and their "3G real soon now..."
<nothingman> alrighty, thx
<Lns> nothingman: ack..at&t suuuuuuuuuuucks
<Lns> i wouldnt wish their services upon my worst enemy
<LaserJock> oh?
<LaserJock> I've had AT&T for cell and internet service for years
<Lns> i did too, for years
<Lns> and finally got fed up with it all :p
<Lns> now im with comcast and t-mobile and i couldnt be happier
<Lns> no dropped calls, no voicemails without my phone ringing, no crappy dsl service
<Lns> thats just mho though ;)
<nothingman> LaserJock: link to those minutes?
<LaserJock> not yet :(
<LaserJock> I had to write an interview first
<nothingman> 'sOK
<nothingman> with who?
<LaserJock> somebody who likes to interview Ubuntu developers
<LaserJock> sent me an email so I figured I better write back :-)
<crimsun> for hall-of-fame? =)
<LaserJock> no, no
<LaserJock> I don't dare dream of being in the HOF ;-)
<LaserJock> crimsun: I don't think they let us old-timers in there
<crimsun> LaserJock: i'm just going to chuckle when i see your name in the big interview lights
<crimsun> meanwhile i'll plug away in the dark =)
<LaserJock> "lol, what's the freak doing on there?" is that how it's gonna be ;-)
<LaserJock> "I though you  had to ... you know ... do something"
 * LaserJock ends his bddebian impersionation
<crimsun> except bdd is a big DD now
<bddebian> Hey!
<bddebian> :)
<bddebian> pfft
<bddebian> Still a lamer :)
<crimsun> whatever, the real lamers have no upload rights anywhere =)
<LaserJock> crimsun's just too cool for upload rights :-)
<bddebian> hah, exactly :)
<LaserJock> us mortals actually *need* permission
<LaserJock> nothingman: http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/edubuntu-meeting-minutes-2/
<LaserJock> nubae: around?
<nothingman> thx, LaserJock!
<jpedroza> Hey all. I just picked up a copy of Ubuntu and the Edubuntu addons. I wanted to use it for my daughter, who is 4, is that an appropriate age for the os?
<LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
<nubae1> LaserJock: can u mentor me for doing some package management work?
<LaserJock> I think that might be possible :-)
<nubae1> I figure u can do with some help, so I'll do my best, I've been following the motu podcasts, I guess that should help
<nubae1> u have something easy I could tackle?
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> right now we're fairly updated with the core packages
<LaserJock> we could look at bugs or look at some Universe packages or even look at updating something beyond Debian
<LaserJock> well, I got a list of our teams (the ones we want anyway) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JordanMantha/Edubuntu/Teams
<nubae1> so beyond debian, u mean package something from source thats not yet in ubuntu/debian?
<LaserJock> I think what we might want to do is create an Edubuntu Council team and make that owner of all the teams
<LaserJock> nubae1: well, update an existing package to a version that's newer than what Debian has
<nubae1> ah ok
<LaserJock> we are up-to-date as far as Debian is concerned (except moodle)
<LaserJock> but some packages (like probably gcompris) have newer version available than what's in Debian
<nubae1> oh... I c...
<nubae1> is moodle a difficult one, is that why its not updated?
<LaserJock> it's somewhat difficult I think, a lot more to think of than a generic desktop app
<LaserJock> but I haven't had a chance to look at it
<LaserJock> which means sort of nobody has looked at it
<nubae1> :-)
<nubae1> isnt the testers team kinda like buqsquad?
<LaserJock> there's also a few moodle bugs that should be looked at
<LaserJock> no, the testers team should be just testing Edubuntu apps out
<LaserJock> they would *file* bugs
<nubae1> ok, for review like
<LaserJock> yeah
<nubae1> a good area for newcomers to contribute to
<LaserJock> the bugsquad is bug triage, tracking, and squashing
<nubae1> are the bugs usually upstream or package related?
<LaserJock> most often upstream
<LaserJock> one of the things we gotta do is send them upstream
<LaserJock> that's a big part of the Bugsquad
<nubae1> ok
<nubae1> then upstream sends a fix and bugsquad triages
<nubae1> ?
<LaserJock> well, often it trickles down
<LaserJock> depending on the bug we may just send it on to Debian and let them deal with it
<LaserJock> other times we'll talk to upstream directly and either get a patch from them (if it's important) or wait for them to release a new version with a fix
<nubae1> so either we find a bug and send directly do debian, or upstream, in which case upstream?
<LaserJock> in which cases do we send it upstream?
<nubae1> yeah
<LaserJock> there are a few reasons we might do that
<LaserJock> 1) the Debian maintainer is unresponsive or hostile
<LaserJock> 2) if it only affects Ubuntu for some reason
<LaserJock> 3) if we have a good releationship with the upstream (like they hang out here or on the mailing list)
<Guest62686> Hi
<Guest62686>  Does someone here know how ldm/ltspfs creates the socket /var/run/ldm_socket... to enable usb device to be mounted ?
<RichEd> Guest62686: try asking in #ltsp
<Guest62686> That's what I'm doing too, but I think there are here some people able to answer here if nobody does in # ltsp
<sbalneav> Morning all
<Ahmuck> *yawns*
<highvoltage> where's mr laser
<nubae> greets highvoltage
<highvoltage> hey nubae
<Lns> hey nubae, highvoltage
<nubae> hi Lns
<highvoltage> Lns: I was just thinking of you
<Lns> either of you two using openpoffice presentation for slideshows?
<Lns> highvoltage: uh oh, good thoughts i hope ;)
<nubae> yeah
<highvoltage> I've used it often
<Lns> nubae: have you had it lock up before when viewing the slideshow?
<Lns> highvoltage: ^^^
<highvoltage> never with me before
<highvoltage> although I haven't used Impress with OOo 3 so much yet, it may have newer issues that I haven't encountered yet
<nubae> no me either actually... seems to work quite well
<highvoltage> Lns: is it always under the same conditions?
<Lns> im getting reports from one school that everyone on a tc that tries to view the slideshow (minus maybe 1) locks up
<Lns> highvoltage: different users, different slideshows, different thin clients (same hw though)
<highvoltage> Lns: ah, I suggest you find out what they mean with "lock up"
<nubae> heh
<highvoltage> is it a temporary lock up? or do the machines freeze solidly?
<Lns> highvoltage: as in ctrl+alt+backspace lock up
<Lns> not solid, they can get back to login w/key combo
<nubae> ah so net connection is still there
<highvoltage> but the network connection may die temporarily. I'd still check the network, and that there's enough ram in the server
<Lns> this is the only app that does it
<nubae> is it a powerpoint file?
<Lns> the network is great, server has 8gb ram
<Lns> nubae: no, natively created in ooo
<nubae> hmmm
<highvoltage> yes, hmmm.
<Lns> i remember a bug a while back here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/90543
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 90543 in openoffice.org "Fiesty OpenOffice Impress crashes upon starting SLIDESHOW" [Undecided,Fix released]
<highvoltage> Lns: does this occur with that same file on a standalone machine as well?
<Lns> maybe its not really fixed
<highvoltage> Lns: and how much RAM does the clients have? do you have swap over nbd enabled?
<Lns> highvoltage: 128mb, and yes
<highvoltage> (sorry for all the 'obvious' questions, but it's usually a good idea to just go through them)
<Lns> highvoltage: ubuntu member? Im not sure
<Lns> probably not, i have an lp acct'
<Lns> ill brb have another issue (qb2k8 this time) to tend to
<highvoltage> Lns: ah
<Lns> back, kinda
<Lns> weird, i cant reproduce the crash on my own ltsp network
<alkisg> Lns, maybe the bug is related to the graphics card driver
<Lns> alkisg: i was wondering that, these are HP T series thin clients which are supposed to have no issues
<Lns> hard to debug from console because oo-impress detaches after launching
<LaserJock> Lns: can you help me for a sec with US age-grade level mapping?
<Lns> LaserJock: sure, did RichEd give you the wikipedia link i sent him?
<Lns> that explains all of them =)
<LaserJock> no, I didn't get that, can you give me the link?
<Lns> this isnt the one but it might link to the other countries too - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_grades_(US)
<LaserJock> awesome, thanks
<LaserJock> should have thought of wikipedia
<Lns> ;) i found it from google
<Lns> LaserJock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_stages
<LaserJock> Lns: I'm trying to figure out where the primary/secondary line would be int he US
<LaserJock> *in the
<Lns> hmm, you dont normally hear the wordage pri/sec here
<Lns> not in my area anyway
<Lns> normally elementary, middle school/junior high, then high school
<LaserJock> no, but it's what we're going to use for Edubuntu because it's more universal
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to map them
<LaserJock> I was thinking of doing Primary = grades 1-6 and Secondary = grades 7-12
<Lns> elementary school is K-6, middle is normally 7-8, high is 9-12
<Lns> in some districts middle/junior high is 7-9
<LaserJock> right, I need K
<LaserJock> so I think if we squish middle into high
<Lns> sure
<Lns> makes sense
<LaserJock> we get Primary = K-6 and Secondary = 7-12
<Lns> middle/junior is really more "serious" school
<LaserJock> right, you start dividing into subjects
<Lns> that makes sense
<Lns> right
<Lns> and different teachers instead of just one
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> that seems like a logical dividing line for apps
<Lns> definitely
<Lns> 7+ probably wouldnt want things like gcompris and friends
<LaserJock> you move away from 1 app that does a lot to more individual, subject-specific apps
<Lns> yeah. might be good to separate artwork too
<Lns> i got feedback from an after school club that kids older than 12 didnt like the "childish" artwork in edubuntu
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> once we have these preschool, primary, secondary, tertiary designations and metapackages down
<LaserJock> it'll be easy to add in appropriate artwork/themeing
<Lns> most definitely
<Lns> i think things will really start to move in the right direction when we have that
<Lns> people will have more sense of "this is good for ME" type mentality
<LaserJock> first we gotta figure out how to do all the packaging/seed work to get this going
<Ahmuck> r u going to have a local type of app menu for each designation?
<Ahmuck> by user or by mac address?
<LaserJock> well, we'll have to see how that works out
<nubae> sounds far too complicated right now
<LaserJock> we do want to do local app menus but I'm not sure how that's going to get implemented
<LaserJock> stgraber might have some idea
<Lns> is that even in edubuntu scope?
<nubae> so 50% of olpc got laid off...
<Lns> omg :(
<nubae> massively talented people... real shame
<nubae> sugar is not completely on its own, officially
<nubae> s/not/now
<Lns> there needs to be some sort of non profit org. that can pay people like this, with donations from the community
<LaserJock> well, I'm really uncertain if it's going to live
<Ahmuck> it's not a bad thing really.  they will find jobs.  more importantly, they will funnel eitehr into propietary software or oss
<LaserJock> I think OLPC may be dead, it's been heading that way for quite some time
<nubae> yeah, its no news to me, its just sad for the people laid off
<nubae> many of them quit really good jobs to go work for the cause
<nubae> and now their out in the cold with 2 days notice
<Ahmuck> how do you list that on a resume.  got fired from a failing company?/
<nubae> I wonder what will happen with the existing deployments world wide... doesn't look like they'll get much support anymore from the mother organisation
<LaserJock> I saw morgs got laid off from Sugar :(
<nubae> everyone did
<nubae> there have been no sugar paid employees for 3 months
<nubae> but sugar has a strong community presence
<Lns> at least we have that
<Lns> now its up to us, the meta-company!
<LaserJock> perhaps if we can get Sugar into Edubuntu proper we can help them out
<nubae> hehe, indeed, I think to keep things like sugar alive, they'll need to be integrated in distros themselves
<nubae> LaserJock: right
<nubae> they've done a tremendous job with collaboration, nothing comes close to what is possible right now through their interface
<Lns> and you know that better than anyone nubae :) seems like its up to us to pick up the pieces, before m$ comes across a clone and makes it better :p
<nubae> LaserJock: I have to go through the process of renaming all the instances of edubuntu-addon to ubuntu education cd on the website
<LaserJock> ok
<nubae> I'm wondering if at the same time its not an idea to clarify what edubuntu is
<nubae> now that we have a clearer picture
<nubae> should I write something up and then have u look over it?
<LaserJock> I'm trying to figure out how to the same with the download pages
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> I really want to keep the amount of text low
<LaserJock> what page do you want to put the clarification on?
<nubae> well we could 2 bullet points: edubuntu = community and selected universe maintained edu packages
<nubae> ubuntu-edu = canonical supported edu apps in main
<nubae> :p
<Lns> i find it strange still that we're still using 2 different names
<nubae> yeah but now at least we have a definition for what each one is
<nubae> before it was like, well edubuntu is the community that makes ubuntu-edu
<nubae> that made little sense to me
<LaserJock> I'm not sure that people will understand the difference
<nubae> well, if we make it clear that the distinction is in the packages
<LaserJock> what do people need to know?
<nubae> that should be clear
<Lns> i think we're off to a good start though, for sure
<nubae> so we list the packages under their respective names
<LaserJock> I'm not sure the distinction needs to be end-user visible
<Lns> LaserJock: that is true
<nubae> it does if ubuntu plans on using the ubuntu-edu brand name
<Lns> for most intents, users wont see edubuntu community stuff anyway unless theyre searching for specific things online
<LaserJock> nubae:  that's Ubuntu's issue and takes place on ubuntu.com/education
<nubae> yeah, but we are talking about the online website ;-)
<LaserJock> I think the only thing we need to do is addon -> Ubuntu Education CD
<nubae> well, it certainly needs to be clear that ubuntu education are the officially supported packages
<nubae> to cover our asses
<LaserJock> we shouldn't really be talking about packages on the site though
<nubae> applications then
<LaserJock> we should talk about software and application bundles
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> and those are either supported or not
<LaserJock> well, or however we want to call it
 * LaserJock doesn't like "supported"
<nubae> ok how about official and unofficial?
<nubae> too grey I guess
<LaserJock> well, that's no good because Universe is an official repo
<nubae> main and recommended
<Ahmuck> i'd luv to particpate today, but i'm not feeling well :(
<nubae> or base and recommended
<LaserJock> the best I can think of at this point, even though I'm not fond of it, is Canonical-supported and community-supported
<nubae> yeah thats the clearest
<LaserJock> even though basically right now it's all community :-)
<nubae> or maybe ubuntu supported and edubuntu supported
<LaserJock> I don't think that'll work but it's a good thought
<LaserJock> the problem is that Edubuntu is going to be supporting it all
<Lns> arent there any other projects that do similar things we can get ideas from?
<LaserJock> Lns: not really in Ubuntu
<Lns> well, anywhere really
<LaserJock> I can't think of any other distro that does it how we do
<Lns> what about k-12 linux?
<LaserJock> Fedora used to with Fedora Core and Fedora Extras
<LaserJock> nah
<nubae> ubuntu studio kinda does it
<LaserJock> all other distros just have a single level repository
<Lns> hmm
<LaserJock> we have a 2-tiered system
<Lns> i think "community supported" and "canonical supported" is a good idea
<nubae> they have multimedia production specific
<nubae> and general
<LaserJock> the problem that I have with community/canonical supported is it's really irrelevant and untrue
<nubae> yeah its just a way to make the ubuntu-edu brand name work
<LaserJock> Canonical supported indicates that Canonical is soley responsible for the apps, that they produce it all, etc.
<LaserJock> which just isn't true
<nubae> how about main supported and universe supported
<LaserJock> that's fairly meaningless to people
<nubae> yeah
<LaserJock> we're trying to explain it to people who don't know what main and universe are
<Lns> main/extras wont work either? ive seen that in a lot of apps/bundled metapackages
<nubae> or base and extras
<Lns> and just explain in the descriptions of the packages
<LaserJock> so here's where Ubuntu explains the components at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components
<nubae> Yeah the easiest way that people will get this is by directing them to the app lists
<alkisg> "Canonical supported" to me (=newbie) means the same as in Synaptic Package Manager: the apps with the sign that says "Canonical provides critical updates for package-name until some-date". I like this description (ubuntu-edu = canonical supported and edubuntu = community supported), it's very clear
<LaserJock> "The main distribution component contains applications that are free software, can freely be redistributed and are fully supported by the Ubuntu team."
<nubae> here is list A (with explanation on page about support), here is list B
<LaserJock> alkisg: right, except I have *real* issues with that statement and I feel Canonical has been very insensitive to the community by using it
<nubae> it doesn't reflect who *really* supports it
<alkisg> OK, but that's a general problem, not with just edubuntu...
<LaserJock> it assumes that the roughly %50 of Ubuntu Core Developers who aren't employed by Canonical don't exist
<LaserJock> alkisg: yep
<nubae> we could call it that and just put in a disclaimer saying: but right now the edubuntu community is the sole supporter of all the edu packages in edubuntu
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> that's just confusing
<Lns> its most compatible though
<nubae> how about saying, apps that canonical is responsible for
<LaserJock> but they aren't
<nubae> well not in practice
<nubae> but in theory they are :-)
<LaserJock> not really
<Lns> how about "apps that canonical thinks its responsible for" =p
<LaserJock> heh
<nubae> sigh
<alkisg> The next thing that was clear to me was the main/universe repository thing, it's something I learned very early in my Ubuntu-time. It doesn't matter if they're called "packages" instead of "applications", teachers can tell the difference.
<nubae> yeah I think so too
<nubae> and if they dont understand its quick to explain
<LaserJock> reading the ubuntu.com description it looks to me like it should be "fully supported" and "community supported"
<alkisg> OK, the word "community" also provides good insight on the differences
<LaserJock> the point of Main is it being fully supported, not *who* is supporting it
<nubae> yeah that actually sounds the best till now
<LaserJock> it's still a tad weird because for us "fully supported" = "fully supported by the Edubuntu community"
<LaserJock> but I don't think we're going to find anything perfect ;-)
<nubae> no, and thats still kind of true
<nubae> we support apps in main more than those in universe
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> that's what I'd like to get across to users
<LaserJock> Main == stuff we're really investing time into
<nubae> well I think that full and community sound good
<nubae> there is no canonical in there either
<nubae> :-)
<LaserJock> Universe == stuff we think is useful but can only spend a limited amout of effor on
<nubae> so it could be regarded as fully supported by the edubuntu team
<nubae> that wording has the closest relation to reality
 * nubae just realises he has repeated what Laserjock wrote above...
<alkisg> So main = canonical AND community supported, universe = only community supported. Just put that on a web page and use the names "main" and "universe" in all other places... :)
<alkisg> (it took me quite some time to understand that main was also supported by the community... :))
<nubae> yeah the support thing has had many of us baffled, even those who have been using ubuntu for years
<LaserJock> I would say something like "The Ubuntu Education CD is fully supported by Canonical and the Edubuntu community. Commercial support may be purches from Canonical for the applications found on the Ubuntu Education CD"
<nubae> right
<LaserJock> I think that's basically all we need to say, right?
<nubae> yep, but we should mention that the other apps are only edubuntu community supported
<LaserJock> and then maybe "The Edubuntu application bundles are supported on a best-effort basis by the Edubuntu community"
<alkisg> and also shortly define what edubuntu is! :)
<nubae> cool, well I copied that into a text file and I'll use it in the website
<nubae> wow, irc can actually be productive at times... :p
<LaserJock> so we need to figure out where to put that stuff
<nubae> I can try and really slim down the pages, but it should be mentioned in at least download and applications
<LaserJock> hmm
<nubae> which is what most people are hitting
<LaserJock> I'm thinking maybe front page
<alkisg> Well, until it's cleared on people's minds, I'd say the start page is a good place to put them!!!
<nubae> yeah front page too
<Lns> yes
<Lns> and package descriptions where applicable
<LaserJock> I think essentially we're focusing the definiton of "Edubuntu" down pretty well onto these application bundles
<nubae> right now we have this line which should be replaced with what we just cooked up: Edubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with community based support.
<nubae> LaserJock: yeah its the glue...
<Lns> yeah
<LaserJock> highvoltage: ping
<alkisg> nubae, "Edubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system" ??? You lost me again...!!!
<nubae> thats what needs to be replaced
<nubae> :-)
<alkisg> Ah, ok
<Lns> lol
<Lns> *canofworms*
<nubae> thats currently on the page right now, along with big edubuntu promises
<Lns> i think the promises need to be taken out as thats covered with ubuntu
<alkisg> Ah, politicians and companies... never keep promises
<nubae> I think we can take away the Edubuntu Promise
<Lns> we need to really focus our wordage on whats specific to us
<nubae> Lns: right
<nubae> ok, let me go hack at the front page and show u guys a draft
<LaserJock> hang on a sec
<Lns> cool..i'll update the wiki after thats done to reflect the same
<LaserJock> well, go ahead but I'm working on a mission statement here
<nubae> ok
<Lns> woots
<LaserJock> I think we can boil all this down into a clear single statement of what Edubuntu is
<Lns> totally
<LaserJock> "Edubuntu is an education-focused project to bring the freedoms and spirit of Ubuntu to children, parents, students, teachers, and schools"
<nubae> I think we should leave the first line in though, Ubuntu is ancient African word, blah blah
<Lns> hrm..
<Lns> shouldnt we focus more on the fact that edubuntu community brings educational apps, games and artwork themes to ubuntu?
<LaserJock> "Rather than an entirely seperate operating system, the Edubuntu community gives you the ability to easily install the best the open source software world has to offer educational users"
<Lns> LaserJock: how about "The Edubuntu community provides the best open source educational software to Ubuntu"
<LaserJock> "Edubuntu's objective is to create an integrated and usable computing experience for educational users by enhancing Ubuntu with an educational layer of applications, tools, content, and themes"
<Lns> err, well grammar could be fixed
<Lns> LaserJock: i like that last one a lot
<LaserJock> I'm just tossing stuff out here, braindumping
<Lns> i think the last one is the best description
<nubae> we shouldn't put too much big wording in though... educational layer, computing experience...
<Lns> nubae: how bout this: "duuurrrrrrrr" =p~~~ j/k, sorry, that just came out of nowhere
<Lns> im in a very sarcastic mood
<nubae> :-)
<nubae> I just think we could say integrated experience... with educational applications, tools....
<LaserJock> ok so
<Lns> how about "Edubuntu's objective is to create a customized experience for educational users by enhancing Ubuntu with educational applications, tools, content, and themes"
<Lns> maybe not mentioning educational twice
<Lns> maybe replace second educational with specific
<LaserJock> "Edubuntu's objective is to create an integrated and usable experience for educational users by enhancing Ubuntu with educational applications, tools, content, and themes"
<nubae> yeah that sounds great
<Lns> +1
<Lns> i like the "enhancing ubuntu" part the best
<Lns> sums it all up
<nubae> we then need to specify that we make the ubuntu education cd and provide community supported edu apps
<nubae> and that followed by the support stuff
<LaserJock> ok, here's how I'd go
<LaserJock> 1st would be statement above
<LaserJock> 2nd "Ubuntu is an ancient African ..."
<Lns> do we really need to have that though?
<LaserJock> 3rd "Edubuntu seeks to bring the freedoms and spirit of Ubuntu to children, parents, students, teachers, and schools"
<nubae> well, not everyone that hits edubuntu.org has been to ubuntu...
<Lns> well they'd have to eventually if they want to use it
<LaserJock> sure, but I don't think it really hurts?
<Lns> why not just link to ubuntu's site from the first statement so they can get that as well?
<LaserJock> we do
<Lns> dont want to be redundant
<nubae> but it fits with what is said after about freedom and spirit
<nubae> sort of bolsters it
<LaserJock> that's what I was sort of thinking
<Lns> i guess..i dunno, i just think thats better suited in ubuntu specifically but not our project, though we do share the philosophies
<LaserJock> I think it's important that we are clear that we are a part of the larger Ubuntu community
<LaserJock> we're not a 3rd party repo of addons
<LaserJock> for instance
<LaserJock> which I think people might think with the "enhancing Ubuntu" in the first sentence
<nubae> ok after 3 we need specifics on the ubuntu cd and edubuntu applications
<LaserJock> ok, right
<nubae> and 5 could then be ubuuntu education cd is fully supported by canonical... blah
<Lns> i think thats really too much..we could describe our project in a much simpler fashion than 5 lines
<LaserJock> well the main description is that first sentence
<nubae> well we definetly need to explain what we are producing... and that hasnt been said yet, line 5 is about support
<LaserJock> we then just sort of unveil what that means
<Lns> oh ok
<nubae> yeah
<Lns> gotcha
<LaserJock> I think we can do that via formating
<nubae> yeah thats what I'm doing.. just paragraphing nicely
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if we want to get into too many details about app bundles
<nubae> no... just we produce A and B
<nubae> and then explaining the support paragraph that u came up with
<LaserJock> well, especially since the app bundles don't exactly exist right now ;-)
<nubae> lol
<LaserJock> ok, so we can explain the Ubuntu Education CD real quick and link to the download page
<nubae> well I think we should link to the applications too
<LaserJock> then say for the next release "9.04 due to be released in April of 2009" we will adding application bundles
<nubae> http://www.edubuntu.com/node/61
<nubae> its not linked yet... just a preview page
<LaserJock> nubae: mind if I tweak it?
<nubae> not at all
<LaserJock> hmm, got a tad bit of a snag
<nubae> which is?
<LaserJock> with pre-Jaunty vs. Jaunty
<LaserJock> I think we can use the "application bundle" wording for our current setup (edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-addon-*)
<LaserJock> nubae: how's this http://www.edubuntu.com/node/61 ?
<LaserJock> Lns: still around?
 * LaserJock feels lonely
#edubuntu 2009-01-09
<Lns> Lns: im here
<Ahmuck> notepad ++
<LaserJock> Lns: heh, talking to yourself again?
<LaserJock> Lns, Ahmuck: have a look at http://www.edubuntu.org/node/61
<Lns> ah, heh didnt notice that
 * Lns only talks to himself on thursdays
<Lns> LaserJock: node 61 looking slick!!!
<LaserJock> do you think a new person would get a good intro from that?
<Lns> for sure!
<Lns> youd have to be pretty strange not to understand that, its very clear and to the point.
<LaserJock> I'm trying to walk the line between "umm, what *is* it?" and "woah, to much information"
<Lns> perfect balance
<Lns> and i think it gives ME motivation as to knowing what edubuntu is too =)
<Lns> even though ive been working with it since fiesty
<Lns> err, dapper even
<LaserJock> heh
<Lns> since back then, it was an OS, an LTSP installation, apps, themes and more
<LaserJock> next step is to do similar stuff to the pages it links to
<LaserJock> hmm, we also have a Glossary page
<LaserJock> we can link up things that are a bit hard to explain to that (Main, Universe, etc.)
<Ahmuck> yes, i like that site
<Ahmuck> it's well organized
<LaserJock> oh bother
<LaserJock> why do we have *3* download pages?
<Lns> lol\
<LaserJock> I'm confused
<LaserJock> they're all similar but slightly different
<Lns> sounds like 2 / 3 need to go away
<LaserJock> hmm and we have a FAQ on the website *and* on the wiki
<LaserJock> ok, time to head out
<LaserJock> I did a quick triage of all the edubuntu.org pages
<nothingman> so I'm trying to conjure up what I'm going to do about student files for the future
<nothingman> I had been planning on having Active Directory user names and a shared folder for all users
<nothingman> shared, but with a subfolder for each student
<nothingman> now I'm thinking I'll use thumb drives for the older students, and have them install a minimal OS plus partition for classwork
<nothingman> so there
<nothingman> and my battery's dying
<encompass> hi guys, is there any way to do an ltsp setup without pxe boot?
<encompass> I have an old lappy I want to use as a thin client
<encompass> for example, can I do a special install or something?  PErhaps boot from a CD
<alkisg> encompass: you can boot from a floppy or cd or even from the hard disk. Try #ltsp
<encompass> ok
<alkisg> encompass: (or go directly to etherboot.org and download a gpxe disk)
 * encompass checks it out
<nubae> yeah downloading the gpxe image and writing to cdrom will be your best bet
<encompass> nubae: so this gpxe doesn't seem to be in ubuntu yet is that right?
<nubae> well its not really anything to do with the OS
<nubae> its like a mini image that acts like a pxe network card
<nubae> so this works for all operating systems... thats why its not in ubuntu... but I guess its not a bad idea to package it up for ubuntu
<encompass> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/NetbootInstallFromInternet
<encompass> that seems to be the answer
<nubae> thats complicating things, its not that complicated
<encompass> hehe
<nubae> just download teh gpxe image, write to cdrom
<nubae> and put cdrom in drive :-)
<encompass> does it do the kernel install and grub setup so I don't have to keep using the cd drive?
<nubae> set the machine to load from cdrom of course
<nubae> no
<nubae> that u have to copy over manually
<nubae> but to be honest, using the cd is not so bad
<nubae> I have it set up like that for a bunch of thin clients
<encompass> pretty quick I suppose
<alkisg> encompass: you just download gpxe.lkrn to /boot/ and put the lines "title Boot from network" and "kernel /boot/gpxe.lkrn" somewhere in /boot/grub/menu.lst.
<encompass> yeah
<encompass> I just found that now
<encompass> trying to figure out which pci id I have
<nubae> lspci
<alkisg> encompass: download gpxe:all-drivers, it contains all drivers and it's in the middle of the list
<encompass> there is one?
<alkisg> Yeap
<nubae> oh yeah, thats what I used...
<nubae> nice quick solution
<alkisg> Like I write it, with "g" in front: "gpxe:all-drivers"
<nubae> alkisg: so why edu apps do u use?
<alkisg> Well... Firefox, OpenOffice, kolourpaint, iTalc... :)
<nubae> kolourpaint?
<encompass> they need to put that at the top :P
<alkisg> Nothing from the _real_ edu* stuff!
<nubae> well italc is in the bundle :-)
<alkisg> encompass: tell them, #etherboot
<alkisg> There are some lessons in the school books about window paintbrush, and kolourpaint is quite similar
<alkisg> gpaint sucks though
<encompass> alkisg: yeah, gimp is better :P
<nubae> too complex
<alkisg> In the first class of secondary education, when they learn about the mouse etc
<nubae> ok... so u think gpaint should be replaced by kolourpaint?
<nubae> there is also tuxpaint
<alkisg> encompass: gimp isn't good for young kids... tuxpaint is better, but suffers in performance in ltsp environment
<alkisg> nubae: absolutely!
<encompass> oh, yeah, out of context I suppose
<encompass> what about video and things? does ltsp handle where in that respect?
<alkisg> gpaint should be burned and thrown out of the window
<nubae> ok... well, now is the time to push these things through... kolourpaint seems stable to you?
<encompass> for example, miro?
<nubae> in edubuntu we use Kino
<alkisg> kolourpaint is 1000% more stable than gpaint
<nubae> ok ok... good to know... I'll lobby for it then
<alkisg> and edubuntu already has kde apps, so no problem there
<nubae> no not at all, can u check see if its in main?
<nubae> ah its in universe
<nubae> well, still not a problem
<alkisg> nubae, it's kolourpaint4
<alkisg> And it's in main
<nubae> Package: kolourpaint
<nubae> Section: universe/kde
<nubae> Priority: extra
<nubae> oh the other must be kde3
<alkisg> Canonical provides critical updates for kolourpaint4 until May 2010.
<alkisg> But you're right, it's not in main
<nubae> it is or it isnt now?
<nubae> no its in main
<nubae> you were right
<nubae> http://appnr.com/package/kolourpaint4
<alkisg> !info kolourpaint4
<ubottu> kolourpaint4 (source: kdegraphics): simple image editor for KDE 4. In component main, is extra. Version 4:4.1.3-0ubuntu1~intrepid1 (intrepid), package size 939 kB, installed size 2220 kB
<alkisg> I forget about ubot3, it knows stuff! :)
<nubae> ok, so thats an easy switch... just change the seed
<nubae> I'll write a mail to teh list, see if anyone objects
<nubae> +1 in it ;-)
<alkisg> !info stardict
<ubottu> stardict (source: stardict): International dictionary. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0.1-4ubuntu1 (intrepid), package size 13 kB, installed size 60 kB
<alkisg> !info vlc
<ubottu> vlc (source: vlc): multimedia player and streamer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 0.9.4-1ubuntu3 (intrepid), package size 1628 kB, installed size 3616 kB
<alkisg> vlc is good for streaming video in ltsp classrooms
<encompass> !info ubottu
<ubottu> Package ubottu does not exist in intrepid
<nubae> !info vlc
<ubottu> vlc (source: vlc): multimedia player and streamer. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 0.9.4-1ubuntu3 (intrepid), package size 1628 kB, installed size 3616 kB
<encompass> :(
<nubae> multiverse
<nubae> that will be hard...
<alkisg> Yeah... :/
<nubae> anything similar?
<alkisg> !info wine
<ubottu> wine (source: wine): Microsoft Windows Compatibility Layer (Binary Emulator and Library). In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.1-0ubuntu2 (intrepid), package size 7330 kB, installed size 54492 kB
<nubae> it will be in main by Jaunty though
<alkisg> wine? good! :)
<nubae> yeah
<nubae> lots of discussion about that on the ubuntu-devel list
<nubae> I want blender back in
<alkisg> blender is great, but difficult for education on any level :(
<alkisg> !mplayer
<nubae> yeah I used it for after school classes
<ubottu> mplayer is a media player. It resides in the mutiverse repository and can easily be installed via applications -> add/remove. For codecs try !codecs
<nubae> it was so much fun
<alkisg> Bah...all the good players are multiverse for the codecs
<nubae> yup
<nubae> but the good thing is that starting with Jaunty we can bend the rules a bit
<nubae> and put stuff like that in
<nubae> just wont be on the cd
<encompass> ok, ok, I am close here... I get the ethernet card to load, it get's a dhcp set addy
<encompass> now is it ready for lstp at this point?
<alkisg> So if someones installs edubuntu-desktop from the cd it will ask to download stuff from the internet?
<alkisg> encompass: yes, as I client. Now you need the server
<nubae> alkisg: no
<nubae> 2 options, either the ubuntu education cd
<nubae> and if u want extras
<nubae> then edubuntu-primary or edubuntu-secondary, or whatever
<nubae> basically they are bundles of all the software we choose to promote that are not in main
<alkisg> nubae: what will the edubuntu-desktop package be called?
<alkisg> edubuntu-primary?
<nubae> hmm, probably edubuntu-desktop
<nubae> and the cd will be called ubuntu-edu-addon
<alkisg> So, what will the edubuntu-primary etc packages have that edubuntu-desktop won't have?
<nubae> so the desktop will include ubuntu-edu-addon and all the edu packages we choose from universe
<nubae> no, edubuntu-primary, edubuntu-secondary are there for users who want just certain age groups
<nubae> the metapackage is edubuntu-desktop
<alkisg> Bah, I'm really newbie to be talking about packaging!!! :)
<nubae> right now, we have a set of metapackages that describe what is in them
<nubae> for example, edubuntu-young
<nubae> edubuntu-artwork
<nubae> edubuntu-desktop currently contains all the sub metapackages
<alkisg> So edubuntu-desktop will contain both primary and secondary
<nubae> and the add on cd is called edubuntu-addon
<nubae> right
<alkisg> And what of the "canonical supported" package? How will that be called?
<nubae> edubuntu-desktop will contain everything
<nubae> ubuntu-edu
<alkisg> That doesn't sound like a package... :)
<nubae> so ubuntu-edu-cd
<alkisg> Ah, like kde-edu, I get it
<nubae> yeah... the point is that only that specific metapackage is supported
<nubae> everything else, is edubuntu
<nubae> be it artwork, uni packages, documentation
<nubae> etc
<alkisg> OK, I got it. So edubuntu-desktop will depend on ubuntu-edu,
<alkisg> but edubuntu-primary will *not* depend on ubuntu-edu
<nubae> yes
<nubae> no
<nubae> there might be something like ubuntu-edu-primary, etc too
<nubae> but that is just gonna be complicated
<nubae> actually, maybe edubuntu-primary should contain ubuntu-edu-primary as well as whatever else
<alkisg> Yes... but anyway if the cd has an installer similar to what it already has now, one can only install the apps he/she wants.
<nubae> yeah I'm talking the repository now though
<nubae> as there will be no cd other than ubuntu-edu
<alkisg> Aaaaaa, I didn't see that coming! :)
<encompass> alkisg: a shizzle, I can't control my dhcp client, as I am on a wippies connection... any ideas on how to get around this?
<encompass> dhcp server I mean
<alkisg> encompass: could you rephrase that without using shizzle and wippies? :) I didn't get all the words...
<encompass> wippies is a linux based router that I use for my internet access
<encompass> the shizzle is a swear I suppose
<encompass> I have only limited access to it
<alkisg> OK, so what's the problem with the dhcp server?
<encompass> it's on the router
<encompass> don't I need that on the pxe server?
<encompass> ltsp server I mean?
<alkisg> You may have 2 dhcp servers, it's doable
<nubae> well... u should really only have one
<alkisg> You just need to tell the linux dhcp server that "gpxe:priority=1", to have greater priority for gpxe to use it
<nubae> but if there on different interfaces it dont matter so much
<alkisg> encompass: do you want my dhcpd.conf? I have 2 dhcp servers at school (1=router), and it works fine...
<encompass> yeah
<encompass> send it over
<encompass> or if you need an email that would work too
<alkisg> encompass: you may also copy the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/vmlinuz & initrd from the ltsp server to your laptop, and directly boot the kernel and give it a manual ip address without even using gpxe
<alkisg> !pastebot
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pastebot
<alkisg> !pastebin
<ubottu> pastebin is a service to post multiple-lined texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu.com (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)
<alkisg> encompass: http://paste.ubuntu.com/102764/
<alkisg> Of course you'll have to change the IPs
<alkisg> ranges etc
<nothingman> hi, all
<nothingman> having some major trouble
<nothingman> my wireless is my internet-facing interface, my ethernet is my client-subnet-facing interface
<nothingman> I have my IP set on that interface as 192.168.18.1, netmask 255.255.255.0
<nothingman> I can pastebin my dhcpd.conf if that's helpful
<nubae> first what is teh problem?
<nothingman> I get no DHCP address on the clients
<nothingman> my server here is my laptop, and I'm always switching between networks with it
<nubae> ok.. but the clients can start loading at all?
<nubae> or nothing?
<nothingman> nothing
<nothingman> I mean, they go through PXE but get no address
<nubae> ok, so lets start at the begining then... the wireless interface is internet side and is called eth0?
<nubae> check /etc/default/dhcp3-server and make sure its pointed to the correct interface
<nothingman> wireless is called eth1
<nothingman> and that I checked
<nothingman> it's set to eth0, the wired connection
<nubae> u checked dhcp is feeding eth0 ?
<nubae> k
<nothingman> and yes, dhcpd.conf is set for that subnet
<nothingman> want me to pastebin
<nubae> sure
<nubae> u have a firewall running by any chance?
<nothingman> nope
<nothingman> http://pastebin.com/m513947a7
<nubae> seriously?
<nubae> thats u're dhcpd.conf?
<nothingman> yeah
<nubae> well there isn't even an image to grab
<nothingman> it was overwritten once by firestarter, which I've not started on this machine
<nothingman> yeah, I know
<nothingman> I need to get the DHCP part going first
<nubae> theres no root path
<nubae> well no, u need to do it correctly
<nubae> the file is totally screwed up
<nubae> u want me to paste mine so u can see?
<nothingman> yeah, sure
<nubae> http://pastebin.com/m3ab4e1db
<nothingman> sorry, I replaced it with a backup
<nothingman> now it works fine
<LaserJock> nubae: ping
<LaserJock> RichEd: ping
<RichEd> LaserJock: pong
<LaserJock> RichEd: couple things, 1) do you need anything from me on the US grades mapping? Lns said he sent you a wikipedia link that looked pretty useful
<LaserJock> so K-6 = Primary and 7-12 = Secondary
<LaserJock> 2) yesterday we worked on a new edubuntu.org homepage, could you take a quick look: http://www.edubuntu.org/node/61
<RichEd> 2) give me a coupla mins ... to check out the page
<RichEd> 1) I think we have enough on the grade mapping for me to do a guideline for the package description
<RichEd> We'll go with something like: Pre-School Year
<RichEd> oops
<RichEd> We'll go with something like:
<RichEd> * Pre-School / Kindergarten { which is universal)
<RichEd> * Primary = Grade / Year / K1-6
<RichEd> * Secondary = Grade / Year / K6-12
<RichEd> * Tertiary = College / University
<RichEd> As you can see the age mapping is pretty diverse ... with Denmark +3 years and England -1 !
<LaserJock> yeah
<RichEd> A teacher or parent should know the school level of their kid ... so age is not so NB
<LaserJock> RichEd: do you think it would be worth putting up a webpage version of that spreadsheet?
<LaserJock> or is that too patronizing
<RichEd> LaserJock: yep ... I will do a wiki page and then someone can prettify and move to edubuntu.org
<LaserJock> k, cool
<RichEd> I think it is of interest ... for teachers ... so say a US teacher can see what age his class maps to in Sweden
<LaserJock> yeah, I hadn't thought of that. It might help with the community helping each other
<LaserJock> sort of a "public service"
<RichEd> yep ... school peering / exchange projects etc
<RichEd> we wouls also like to move to: does your school want to link to other schools ... add your degtails here
<RichEd> Note also that Gavin McCullogh suggested (in Sevilla) as I mentioned briefly in the meeting that Adult education is an issue in some countries ... like Adult literacy for low income people
<RichEd> also similar need in Africa
<LaserJock> yeah, I'd like to think about that some more
<LaserJock> I don't have so much experience with the kidos
<RichEd> We should keep an eye out for Adult oriented stuff - they do not want to see "rubber duckies" when learning to read ... typing etc. is also an adult skill
<RichEd> we can look at that for 9.10 maybe ... extend to category 5
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> cool, I even got a bite from my meeting minutes blog post http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/edubuntu-meeting-minutes-2/
<Ahmuck> good morning
<LaserJock> hi Ahmuck
<Lns> FYI: http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=97906 is new OOo Impress Slide Show pixmap issue URL
<ubottu> OpenOffice.org bug 97906 in Presentation "Starting "Slide Show" caches pixmap data excessively, crashing thin clients" [Defect,Unconfirmed: ]
<nothingman> hi, all
<LaserJock> hi nothingman!
<Lns> hey nothingman
<LaserJock> RichEd: we've got quite some work to do to get Add/Remove to reflect reality :(
<LaserJock> nubae: let me know when you've got a few minutes to talk about edubuntu.org
<Ahmuck> has edubuntu addressed internet filtering?
<LaserJock> well, sorta
<LaserJock> some time ago we worked on a easy to use, adaptive content filter
<LaserJock> the problem with content filtering is that it's usually difficult to set up for a regular user
#edubuntu 2009-01-10
<Lns> LaserJock: yeah that's a weird situation for edubuntu since there are many different network topologies possible
<LaserJock> the content filter that was started by Amaranth (who wrote the Gnome menu editor) is pretty nice
<LaserJock> but I think it needs a more complete implementation
<Ahmuck> i've got a problem with it
<Ahmuck> with filtering
<Ahmuck> opendns isn't doing it, and my isp doesn't really have a solution
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: have you tried dansguardian yet?
<Ahmuck> nope
<Ahmuck> iirc, danguardian charges schools
<LaserJock> Ahmuck: what do you mean?
<Ahmuck> k, nm
<Ahmuck> dans guardian is free ... as it's in ubuntu
<Ahmuck> but the blacklists he suggests using is not
<LaserJock> right, although I think there is a blacklist included, though I could be wrong
<Ahmuck> it's only "not free" if you download from his site
<Ahmuck> http://urlblacklist.com/?sec=subscribe
<Ahmuck> that's the blacklist he uses
<LaserJock> right, but you can get other free blacklists
<LaserJock> anyway, that's an option I've commonly seen
<LaserJock> time to go home for me
<Lns> LaserJock: wow didnt know you knew the guy who did alacarte ?
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> gave him a ride once ;-)
<Lns> you should mention it to him that multi-user functionality would RULE =)
<stgraber> Amaranth used to be around on IRC some time ago
<Lns> would be perfect for ltsp ppl
<stgraber> haven't seen him for a while though
<Lns> ah
<LaserJock> I suspect that perhaps either work or uni has taken him a lot
<crimsun> he's around on #offtopic fairly frequently
<LaserJock> he's dropped alacarte essentially
<Ahmuck> long time ago
<LaserJock> does more compiz stuff I believe
<Lns> One of my clients mentioned that they loved the menu editor and it would be nice to do it globally
<Ahmuck> iirc
<crimsun> i funded part of his UDS stay some time ago
<LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, that's when I gave him a ride to Google HQ
<LaserJock> he and ajmitch and jcastro were hoofing it
<Lns> hehe
<Lns> i love this community =)
<crimsun> come to think on it, i've funded quite a few older core-dev for various things
<LaserJock> you remember the "save \sh" campaign?
<crimsun> of course.
<LaserJock> that was an interesting point in Ubuntu community history
<LaserJock> I've not seen things like that elsewhere, though my experience is limited
<crimsun> there was also brandon's hw issue
<LaserJock> yeah
<Ahmuck> heh, i know brandon as well
<highvoltage> I always find things like this disturbing: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/4176114/Chinese-schoolboy-has-52-stitches-after-attack-from-teacher.html
<jelkner> ogra: u here?
<jelkner> anyone here who could field an edubuntu organizational question?
<ogra> jelkner, i'm here, but i didnt touch edubuntu since a year
<ogra> LaserJock is your best bet
<jelkner> ogra: what i have isn't a technical question, but rather an organizational one
<jelkner> I'll look for LaserJock
<jelkner> i assume i can find his contact info on launchpad?
<jelkner> it is interesting to note that you are listed as the top contact of the team on http://edubuntu.org/help
<jelkner> i am listed as Education contact
<jelkner> but neither of us is actively involved in the project
<jelkner> I keep getting very exciting emails from people around the world expressing interest in Edubuntu
<jelkner> but i don't know what to do to help them
<jelkner> so i was thinking we need to update that page and get some real contacts listed there instead of us
 * jelkner found Jordan Mantha on launchpad and is going off to email him...
<ogra> edubuntu was idling since i moved teams, the community guys are just starting to pick up on it again
<ogra> afaik they are planning to reorgnize the website at some point
<ogra> but i think they will want to sort the tech side first .... nobody touched it for quite some time
<jelkner> ok, thanks
<jelkner> but i'll still email him, if he is the main dude on the project
<ogra> well, he tries to take the time for it on a voluntary base
<ogra> some hours a week or so
<jelkner> cool
<ogra> but overall edubuntu was pretty dead for quite soe time
<ogra> *some
<ogra> jelkner, if there is commercial intrest expressed in such mails you get, just forward them to RichEd ... even though canonical doesnt do much for edubuntu anymore, there is interest to establish ubuntu in education
#edubuntu 2009-01-11
<nubae> LaserJock:
<nubae> u wanted to talk to me yesterday I believe
<LaserJock> nubae: yeah
<LaserJock> nubae: wanted you to look at the new homepage we were working on
<nubae> yeah I published it :-)
<nubae> there are still a couple other pages that need the 'edubuntu is a distribution' parts taken out
<LaserJock> ah, cool
<nubae> that, and I need your help with the community and help pages
<LaserJock> I did a quick triage of all the edubuntu.org pages
<nubae> both have contacts that are probably out of date
<LaserJock> yeah, I actually got an email from one of the contacts today asking for it to be updated :-)
<nubae> ok, so what should we change there... I put you up there, since you weren't mentioned
<nubae> starting with the help and support page..
<nubae> teh education realm should probably be switched to Riched right?
<nubae> Technical/General, to you?
<LaserJock> I don't have time to work on it tonight
<LaserJock> I think we can discuss that one via mailing list
<nubae> ok no worries, shall we set a time?
<LaserJock> since we're putting people's names down I think we should get broader discussion
<nubae> I doubt anyone is going to answer on the mailing list :-)
<nubae> but sure we can try...
<LaserJock> I'm not sure if we even want to do a ton for specific contacts, especially since they often go away
<LaserJock> well, even if it's me and you
<nubae> and then set a time when me and you can go over specifics in the page
<LaserJock> it's a little hard to work on lists, etc. on IRC
<LaserJock> I do want to talk to you a little about the Download page
<nubae> yup... ok yeah I agree, 3 contacts at most
<LaserJock> specifically that there is 3 similar but different Download pages
<nubae> hmmm, I only see 2
<LaserJock> node 3, 47 and whatever node /Download is
<nubae> but are they all published?
<LaserJock> not sure, at least 2 are
<nubae> on the front page, we have a link to downloads, and then the banner at the top brings you to a kind of download page too
<nubae> I guess those 2 links could go to the same place
<LaserJock> the link on the frontpage goes to a different node than 3 and 47
<Ahmuck> good evening
<nubae> it goes to 53
<nubae> which seems to be the only active one
<nubae> the other download-like page is the new release announcement
<LaserJock> ok, let's come up with a syntax or naming scheme
<LaserJock> 1) I'd like to archive release announcements and release notes for each release
<LaserJock> 2) rather than updating the same page for each release we should just change the url aliases
<nubae> ok, by archiving them, we take out the url rewrite, unpublish and leave as a node
<nubae> yeah we normally do that
<nubae> at least I've been doing that, like in the case of the homepage
<nubae> problem is, that gets messy
<nubae> there are a ton of unpublished pages that serve no purpose
<LaserJock> well, for the homepage I don't think we really need to do that so much
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I don't think we need to unpublish them either
<nubae> ok so for which pages
<nubae> well, the thing is the url changes to a node
<nubae> so no one will find it anyway
<LaserJock> google might
<nubae> unless we link to old release announcements some how
<LaserJock> and what I'm thinking is that we can make an archive page that links to them
<nubae> ok
<nubae> ok, so we do this for announcements and which other pages?
<LaserJock> I think the application lists, any release-specific documentation, release notes, and release announcements should be done this way
<nubae> k I'll jot that down in a tomboy note
<LaserJock> the thing is I want to keep info on there
<LaserJock> so that the site is not only useful for people getting the very latest release
<LaserJock> for instance, a lot of people will be using 8.04 for a while
<nubae> well, the release notes from 8.04 hardly changed to 8.19
<nubae> 8.10
<LaserJock> i know
<LaserJock> but that may not always be the case
<nubae> only the release name was changed, which of course is something that should be remedied... we should mention what is new with the releases
<nubae> so people have a feeling that the thing is growing
<nubae> not just cloning itself
<LaserJock> sure
<LaserJock> it's just that nobody did it for 8.10
<nubae> ok, so back downloads, what should we do?
<nubae> in the release annoncement we could point to the download pages instead of repeating the full instructions there
<LaserJock> well  so do we have duplicates or are a couple actually release announcements?
<nubae> the places where instructions for downloading are is in the release notes (/news/8.10-release) and the downloads page (/Download)
<nubae> my thinking is we can keep release notes just about that, and point them to the download page for full instructions
<LaserJock> I think so
<LaserJock> because I want to keep the actual release notes and announcments
<LaserJock> but if they include download instructions that gets oudated
<LaserJock> so /Download should be basically the only place with downloading instructions
<nubae> kewl
<LaserJock> I renamed a few pages
<LaserJock> but I think we should go through and make sure that the release-specific pages have the release in them
<LaserJock> perhaps using 8.10: <whatever>  etc.
<nubae> also, the edubuntu wiki is a bit of a mess
<nubae> pointing to there is like going to an outside source that is very out of date
<nubae> I think it does more damage than good at this point
<nubae> apart from the develop part, the rest is duplication of what is already on or should be on the edubuntu.org page
<nubae> the wiki should really be about how to get stuff working, describing and rating the apps, projects being undertaken by us...
<nubae> etc
<nubae> whatcha think?
<Ahmuck> nn
<LaserJock> well
<LaserJock> there's points both ways
<LaserJock> many fewer people have access to edubuntu.org
<nubae> well from a maintenance point of view, we shouldnt be duplicating data
<LaserJock> so it's often been more outdated than the wiki
<nubae> well, thats not the case now
<nubae> right now the wiki is far more outdated, and duplicate
<LaserJock> how duplicative?
<nubae> communication, participate, teams, contact us, faq
<nubae> anyway I have to go, but its an idea to think about what exactly we want to do with the wiki.... It shouldnt just be another edubuntu.org with some extra material
<nubae> oh b4 I forget
<nubae> there was  a bug report about moodle... its related to postrgres and permission
<LaserJock> yes
<nubae> I suggest making moodle depend on mysql instead, its far more common
<LaserJock> it does
<nubae> and easier to auto install
<nubae> anyone wanting to use postrgres, will more than likely know how to install that manually
<LaserJock> our package does either, but default so mysql
<nubae> and will want to too, postgres isnt something u should be installing unless you know what u are doing
<LaserJock> ^to
<nubae> hmmm, last I checked it defaulted to postgres
<nubae> and it would seem from that error report that his did too
<nubae> I'll try it on a fresh ubuntu vm
<LaserJock> oh, you're right
<LaserJock> you can just check the package
<LaserJock> apt-cache show moodle
<LaserJock> postgresql-client |mysql-client
<nubae> yah right :-) ok so if we switch to mysql, we'll get far fewer problems and be able to strike that bug away
<LaserJock> there was a reason for doing postgresql but I can't remember it
<nubae> well, its a better db for sure, for scaling...
<nubae> but anyone that is going to be doing 1000s of users will need to know what they are doing
<nubae> so its kinda moot... mysql is easy enough for everyone
<LaserJock> well we can discuss that
<nubae> oh, there is another server side app we can look at, that links into moodle a bit... its an e-portfolio type software... very powerful, like a school based facebook, but geared totally towards learning
<nubae> its called Mahara
<nubae> maybe u've heard of it
<LaserJock> i have
<nubae> I wrote an article about it a while back: http://www.nubae.com/mahara-e-portfolio-for-moodle
<nubae> its in universe
<LaserJock> cool
<nubae> oh, u wanna check out a live mahara, I have one here on my server?
<LaserJock> sure
<nubae> http://nubae.selfip.com/mahara/htdocs/
<nubae> ok, created a user for u: laserjoch
<nubae> laserjock even
<nubae> with pass mahara5
<nubae> its actually really neat... its like a common place for students to store their data, post resumes, interact, grab posted files for whatever reason, etc
<nubae> needs some more research but could be a good addition to the edubuntu server packages
<LaserJock> yeah, i'd like to beef that up
<nubae> oh, its totally modular
<nubae> can be easily adjusted to whatever we want
<nubae> so from a server side we have php mysql ejabberd, moodle right now
<nubae> and possibly mahara and schooltool+
<nubae> right?
<LaserJock> I don't know about schooltool
<LaserJock> we don't have ejabberd right now, but it'd be nice to add it
<nubae> well, what do u mean we don't gave
<nubae> have
<nubae> I've installed it just fine
<LaserJock> in Edubuntu
<nubae> oh k
<nubae> is it in uni?
<LaserJock> I guess
<nubae> and with schooltool I really think it would be a good idea to talk to tom hoffman
<LaserJock> apt-cache madison ejabberd
<nubae> ok so that requires an MIR
<nubae> shall I do that?
<LaserJock> yeah, you can start working on that
<nubae> ok cool, there is also the case with kolourpaint 4
<nubae> vs gpaint
<nubae> both are in main
<LaserJock> I've been thinking about that
<nubae> so it should just be an agreement to push that through
<LaserJock> and a little about the role of KDE in Edubuntu
 * nubae listens
<LaserJock> well, it does seem like KDE is more edu-minded
<LaserJock> I think making ubuntu-desktop-kde more of a priority might be useful
<LaserJock> there aren't that many Gnome edu apps left
<nubae> u mean focus on kde apps
<nubae> or make it kde4?
<nubae> which I all up for
<LaserJock> there's a few thing
<LaserJock> s
<LaserJock> with the app bundles there's much less lock-in to the DE
<LaserJock> we're mostly just after educational stuff, regardless
<LaserJock> but there are little things we wrap around the purely eductional apps
<LaserJock> like gpaint vs kolourpaint
<LaserJock> and then there are issues like Gnome's user admin tool being kinda dead and buggy
<LaserJock> so I'm not saying drop gnome or replace it with KDE
<LaserJock> but just having a stronger KDE option in edubuntu-desktop-kde
<nubae> ok sounds good
<nubae> kdefy it
<nubae> so how do we do that?
<nubae> it would be nice too, because the look and feel would have a nice change
<LaserJock> essentially just pay attention to edubuntu-desktop-kde metapackage
<LaserJock> and work with Kubuntu folks
<nubae> cool
<nubae> so can we user their widget based approach at all?
<LaserJock> I wonder how many edu people use KDE though
<nubae> or does that reuiquiren kd4 outright
<nubae> hmm, at least 10%
<LaserJock> how do you mean?
<LaserJock> we have KDE4
<nubae> yes, but more integrated into the gui
<LaserJock> just bits of it in KDE Edu and Kolourpaint4
<nubae> i know
<nubae> I'm talking look and fee
<LaserJock> right, what I'm saying is that edubuntu-desktop-kde would be installed on top of Kubuntu
<nubae> be able to us some of their plasma and widget stuff
<nubae> ok
<LaserJock> so whatever we do in there we can use KDE 4 to our hearts content
<nubae> ,so maintiain 32 version then
<LaserJock> so yeah, we could write plasmoids or whatever
<nubae> well, who do we talk to at kde?
<LaserJock> I don't know that we need to exactly talk to kde
<LaserJock> we can just start doing things
<LaserJock> 1 task is to get the edubuntu-desktop-kde metapackage in shape in the seeds
<LaserJock> I have an idea about that that I'll try to get going shortly
<nubae> but that would mean installing on top of a kubuntu, right=
<LaserJock> yeah
<LaserJock> so say on our download page we could have
<LaserJock> for Ubuntu users:
<LaserJock> blah blah
<LaserJock> for Kubuntu users:
<LaserJock> bla blah
<nubae> would the apps all still be the same
<nubae> or woudl we put something different in gnome than in kde
<LaserJock> right
<nubae> ok, so shall we open a discussion on the lists concerning this?
<LaserJock> I don't think we need to right away
<LaserJock> we can see where it takes us
<nubae> ok a possible future roadmap
<nubae> ok, I gotta go
<nubae> anything else?
<LaserJock> I think we could put it in the Jaunty announcment/release notes
<LaserJock> nah
<LaserJock> I gotta go too
<nubae> ye we can start, and maybe at next weeting we know enough to write something
<nubae> anyway bye
<highvoltage> ogra: ouch, this is running windows: http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/10/video-intels-convertible-classmate-pc-hands-on/
<Meshezabeel> always good to have a weeting
<Meshezabeel> Well, it was nice talking to you HedgeMage, cya next time.
<HedgeMage> ??
<Meshezabeel> ??
<HedgeMage> I just got here... I'm not leaving yet. :)
<Meshezabeel> yeah, it was nice talking to you with the double question marks at least :)
<Meshezabeel> I'm the one leaving :)
<HedgeMage> ahh
<LaserJock> afternoon
<stgraber> hey LaserJock
#edubuntu 2010-01-11
<alkisg> I'm having problems with sdl sound in edubuntu Lucid (while plain Ubuntu Lucid works fine).
<alkisg> Could it be that phonon somehow messes with the backends?
<sbalneav> dunno, never played with phonon
<alkisg> It gets installed by default in edubuntu, unfortunately :(
<sbalneav> hm
<alkisg> (either that or I did something wrong)
<ogra> likely by kdeedu
<highvoltage> I just checked the rdepents and it is indeed kdeedu apps that depend on it
<alkisg> I heard that kde won't use pulseaudio as the default backend in Lucid, it'll be ready for pulseaudio but won't use it due to lack of testing. Maybe we should test/make it as the default backend in edubuntu (if that's actually the problem, that is...)
<alkisg> As gcompris, tux* etc all use sdl
 * alkisg will test more to pinpoint his problem
<highvoltage> wow, rsyncing from the karmic dvd to the latest daily build is quite faster than I thought it would be
<highvoltage> (just started a few minutes ago and it's already on 9%)
<alkisg> Karmic? Wow...
<alkisg> I use dl-ubuntu-test-iso, it's handy for syncing daily builds
<highvoltage> I'll look into that, in the old days I used one of ogra's scripts
<highvoltage> I don't want to sync every day though, it would make me poor :)
<highvoltage> (I mean, poorer)
<alkisg> How much do you pay to e.g. download a full dvd?
<highvoltage> alkisg: around 25 euro
<highvoltage> alkisg: I'm trying out a new ISP that's a bit cheaper atm, I think with them it will be around 15 euro instead.
<alkisg> Wow internet is *really* expensive there... You'd be better off with freenx and a report VM
<highvoltage> yeah
<highvoltage> I like having it here though :)
<highvoltage> and that's just for bandwidth, we also have to pay extra DSL rental on top of our phone line rental costs
<alkisg> *remote, not report. What's wrong with me today?
<highvoltage> so before I even transfer a bit my dsl line already costs me around 50 euro
<alkisg> So what people percentage actually has internet? 1 out of 100?!!!
<highvoltage> possibly quite a bit more than that, but when it comes to broadband internet... it's probably less than 1 out of a 100
<highvoltage> most people connect using GPRS/EDGE/3G/HSDPA since there's no fixed monthly rental charges
<highvoltage> so lots of people do that and pay 0.20 euro per MB for whatever amount of bandwidth they can afford
<alkisg> I see... we mostly use that method for GPRS/3G here, as broadband is quite common/cheap. I only pay 20â¬ per month, and that includes my phone bill & internet access (6 mbps)
<highvoltage> that seems quite common in europe
<highvoltage> our expensiveness is purely due to our telecoms monopoly here
<highvoltage> we had a competitor join in recently, but Telkom still controls pretty much everything (they're the only ones who can still provide DSL, for example)
<alkisg> We had monopoly maybe 5 years ago, and _now_ the main provider starts lowering its prices :-/
<alkisg> highvoltage: the ldm-crashing problem I was experiencing was because of LP #505787. I worked around the problem, and also I have FAT_CLIENT=True in my lts.conf, but I'm logging on normally (as a thin client) instead. Any hints?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 505787 in ltsp "nbd-client /dev/nbd0 is ran twice, causing ldm to segfault" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/505787
 * alkisg tries with LTSP_FATCLIENT=True instead of FAT_CLIENT=True...
<highvoltage> alkisg: working?
<alkisg> Yup, finally!
<alkisg> phone, brb...
 * stgraber bangs his head on the wall ... that CD building thing is really really complicated ...
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ubuntu-cdimage$ find . | wc -l
<stgraber> 1635
<stgraber> that's all the scripts used to build a CD image ;)
<highvoltage> wow. with that many files there's probably a lot of sourcing and run-partsing, etc
 * alkisg hugs stgraber as well :)
<stgraber> yep, lots of sourcing + it's debian packaged + there's a Makefile ;)
<stgraber> just poked ubuntu-release about it, let's hope someone knows how that magic works (cjwatson is way too busy to look at it now)
<alkisg> Wouldn't it be a good idea to install by default (in 010-fat-client) all the langpacks that the server has?
<highvoltage> that's a good idea, I guess some people might like the chroot a bit smaller by default, but perhaps it should be an option
<alkisg> Or at least the one that matches the server locale...
<alkisg> Hmm maybe that switch could be handled by 030-late-packages...
<highvoltage> sent 477715 bytes  received 2234932395 bytes  307589.97 bytes/sec
<highvoltage> total size is 3336513536  speedup is 1.49
<highvoltage> that's between karmic release and the latest alpha iso
<highvoltage> or at least, daily build
 * stgraber is making progress on getting LTSP in the DVD image
#edubuntu 2010-01-12
<Ahmuck> stgraber: shouldn't the edubuntu cd focus on "classroom managment, server, etc." rather than apps?  or split into a different cd?
<Ahmuck> i can't help but notice that edubuntu is a collection of apps
<stgraber> Ahmuck: well, I guess it must be both, we need more apps and we need tools to make them easy to access. That's why the focus for Lucid is to make Edubuntu more user friendly, get rid of old things that are getting harder and harder to maintain, get more apps and get the tools to manage them (menu editor, profiles, sabayon, italc and LTSP directly from the LiveCD)
<Ahmuck> neat, i'm looking foward to see what lucid brings
<stgraber> me too, so far we are doing quite well, having a lot more hands than previous releases make it easier too ;)
<Ahmuck> where did the hands get picked up?
<stgraber> mostly existing hands though with a bit more time available, highvoltage, mgariepy and I all work for the same company and have some company time to work on Edubuntu. sbalneav is spending a lot of time improving LTSP and sabayon.
<stgraber> we also recontacted or got contacted again by previous contributors like madsrh for the artwork, hedgemage for the website, ..
<stgraber> and with more regular meetings we also had a few more to show up
<alkisg> highvoltage, about LP #504678, I don't think that 010-fat-client should mount /proc at all - it's already mounted by 010-mount-proc. I think It just needs to run a little later...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 504678 in ltsp "010-fat-client fails to squashfs the image because proc is still mounted" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/504678
<highvoltage> alkisg: good point
<alkisg> highvoltage: I attached this to the bug report, it should work... http://launchpadlibrarian.net/37767964/030-fat-client
<alkisg> highvoltage: I think the description of the 2 options isn't clear, maybe it should be rephrased to reflect that the second form takes the desktop as a parameter, while the first does autodetection
<alkisg> Heh, LTSP_FATCLIENT=True can also be used for troubleshooting, as it invokes an xterm in thin chroots ;) :D
<highvoltage> alkisg: what's the difference between using bridging and bonding to combine ethernet cards?
<alkisg> Trying to run googleearth in a fat client, I'm getting: "Warning: Unable to create symlink for lock '/home/test/.googleearth/instance-running-lock'. Operation not permitted.
<alkisg> highvoltage: afaik bridging is to merge different networks, bonding is to make many cards function like one on the *same* network
 * stgraber waves
<sbalneav> Morning All
<sbalneav> Edubuntu Bug Day begins
<stgraber> alkisg: that's a limitation of sshfs, you can't create a lock file on it
<alkisg> stgraber: ugh... I saw it working as a regular thin client, and I thought sshfs was not to blame, but I forgot that regular thin clients don't use localapps :(
<alkisg> sbalneav: good morning - I guess it'll be a big day today :) I'll be around if I can help anywhere...
<stgraber> right, it'd probably have failed just has well as localapp
<alkisg> Hmmm I wonder if we can make an nfs /home plugin :)
<sbalneav> alkisg: Well, we probably could
<stgraber> you really don't want that ;)
<stgraber> as anyone on the network will be able to access and change your files
<stgraber> that's unfortunately one of the "small" issues with NFS ;)
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> That's why we try to avoid it.
<dgroos> Good Morning
<sbalneav> Morning dgroos
<dgroos> So I saw that it was warmer in Winnipeg than Minneapolis by several degrees a couple of days ago--strange!
<highvoltage> morning dgroos and sbalneav!
<highvoltage> and morning stgraber
<dgroos> Good afternoon highvoltage!
<highvoltage> yay someone in a sane timezone!
 * highvoltage hugs dgroos 
<highvoltage> (and hopes someone from the other timezones don't throw me with something)
<dgroos> And I guess it's quite a bit warmer in the middle of summer than here in the middle of winter...
<highvoltage> 27C atm
<dgroos> As a sci teacher I get a kick out of those things :)
<dgroos> 27!
<sbalneav> -9 here atm
<dgroos> highvoltage: actually I'm in the same time zone as sbalneav, it's 7:41 AM but I was trying to be multi-temporal.  Or something. :)
<highvoltage> well you do a good job at it :)
<highvoltage> shall we use a wiki page to list progress and things that happened during the day?
<sbalneav> As per internet RFC 6303634, "Standardized IRC greetings", ans I quote...
<highvoltage> or would gobby perhaps work better?
<highvoltage> hmm!? I can't find RFC 6303634!
<sbalneav> "One SHOULD use the temporal greeting appropriate for $LOCALTIME, and assume time_zone_convert() will translate for other IRC users" :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav isn't copying and pasting it he's making it up! the emporor has no clothes!
<highvoltage> sbalneav: hmm, that makes sense
<sbalneav> heh
 * sbalneav makes a fake RFC joke
<highvoltage> :)
<highvoltage> ok since there's no comment on gobby vs wiki I think gobby is probably the best to use
<highvoltage> (and then later move it to a wiki page)
 * sbalneav likes gobby
<highvoltage> server gobby.ubuntu.com, document: edubuntu-bug-day-2010-01-12
<sbalneav> Bug #485709
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 485709 in mountall "/etc/init/mountall.conf fails when root is mounted using NFS instead of NBD" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/485709
<sbalneav> There's a few bugs in the gobby
<sbalneav> they're all LTSP related
 * stgraber rsyncs current Edubuntu live
<sbalneav> Interesting that all the bugs anyone pointed out were ltsp bugs, guess no-one's gotten any application issues they're worried about
<stgraber> I'd suggest we have some people download the current Edubuntu DVD image and list all the bugs they find in the gobby document, it should make it easier to make sure it's not already reported and we can then spot what's edubuntu-specific and what's not
<stgraber> current best working Edubuntu image is the i386
<stgraber> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/lucid-dvd-i386.iso
<sbalneav> So, my desktop's a karmic box, and I run edubuntu in virtualbox.  I'm wondering if I should take an hour or two and actually update my desktop to lucid.
<sbalneav> Thoughts?
<highvoltage> I'm only going to do it in virtualbox myself
<sbalneav> sorry, run edubuntu LUCID in virtualbox
<highvoltage> I'm not too worried about grub issues, etc so much since it's common with everything else
 * alkisg has edubuntu lucid amd64 as the main OS in his laptop
 * alkisg also notes that he hates the edubuntu theme :D
<sbalneav> maybe I should do the upgrade today.
<highvoltage> stgraber: I notice the ubuntu iso testing is open on the qa tracker but edubuntu isn't: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all
<highvoltage> stgraber: do we want to test it for alpha2 today, or can we only do that tomorrow?
<stgraber> highvoltage: I'll poke the release team about it
<sbalneav> ok, once the iso finishes downloading, I'll install.
<alkisg> Btw, for anyone trying lucid: updates today breaked X for a lot of users. If that happens to you, try apt-get install --reinstall xserver-xorg-core.
* highvoltage changed the topic of #edubuntu to: It's Edubuntu Bug Day Today! Gobby document edubuntu-bug-day-2010-01-12 on gobby.ubuntu.com | Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | http://www.edubuntu.org | wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu | 9.10 is released!, see http://www.edubuntu.org/news/9.10-release | Help out with bugs: http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs | LTSP questions? try #ltsp
<alkisg> OK I'll be the first to ask for help on a bug: LP #491940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491940 in gnome-session "Patch for LTSP clients to properly reboot/shutdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491940
<alkisg> I think if some Ubuntu or/and LTSP developers (other than myself, who reported the bug) posted that this actually works and it helps us, we would have it for Lucid...
<alkisg> The maintainer was just looking for confirmation the last time I spoke to him
<sbalneav> k, we'll get that one today as well
<sbalneav> dvd down, burning
<highvoltage> surely this can be closed as well? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-artwork/+bug/269853
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269853 in edubuntu-artwork "Human List Login User List is now empty after Edubuntu add-on to Ubuntu" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<highvoltage> (I went ahead and did so anyway)
<highvoltage> total size is 3290357760  speedup is 5.48 yay rsync
<stgraber> highvoltage, sbalneav: Any preference for the time of our ldm dev discussion today ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: I'm probably going to be away for dinner for about 20 minutes in about 20 minutes, but besides that any time is fine for me
<stgraber> early afternoon sounds better then (I'll be leaving in a bit over an hour
<highvoltage> ok, perfect
<stgraber> sbalneav: Would 2pm EST be ok for you (1pm your time) ? (I'm free all afternoon, so choose whatever is best for you)
<sbalneav> Should be fine.
<stgraber> good, adding that to the schedule then.
<alkisg> stgraber: setting SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=false in lts.conf solved the googleearth's symlink problem. It's working now, but I don't have opengl acceleration, I don't know why (intel client).
<sbalneav> stgraber: So, if we're gonna move off of port 2000, which port SHOULD we move to?
<alkisg> How about 9573, right after nbdswapd? Multiple ports will be needed for multiple chroots.
<stgraber> sbalneav: no idea, issue is that NBD doesn't have any standard (as in registered) port or port range
<ogra> dont forget that you need to migrate upgraders
<stgraber> ogra: that shouldn't be an issue, lines are appended to inetd.conf only if not already defined
<stgraber> ogra: so it'll stay on tcp/2000 for old chroot and change to tcp/<whatever> for new ones
<ogra> only if port *and* image exist in there iirc
<ogra> i might remember my crappy code wrong though :)
<stgraber> we should always make sure that nbdport= is always set though, just to avoid some other issues
<highvoltage> edubuntu-docs is at version 9.04
<highvoltage> should I change it to 10.04 (lucid) when updating it?
<stgraber> I'd think so (I don't know that package very well)
<alkisg> Why on earth would a fat client have 131 fps in glxgears, while the same client when booted as a workstation has 400 fps? Intel 945GME [8086:27ae] (rev 03)
<sbalneav> ok, backups are done, dvd's downloaded
<sbalneav> wish me luck, loopy lemur, here I come!
<ogra> oh my, the brave
<highvoltage> hehe :)
<highvoltage> ubiquity certainly works much much nicer at lower resolutions than it used to
<alkisg> Grrr on the same fat client session, when I run glxgears as the local root (setting $XAUTHORITY and $DISPLAY) it runs fine. When I run it as the user that logged on the server, it runs slowly...
<highvoltage> alkisg: that's to be expected isn't it?
<alkisg> Why?
<alkisg> Both are running locally
<highvoltage> alkisg: ah ok, I understood it as you were running one from the server
<alkisg> highvoltage: it greatly reduces performance. I think if we find the cause of it, fat clients will be a big success...
<alkisg> Another symptom is that googleearth complains that I'm using a software gl, while when I use the same netbook as a workstation it runs fine
<highvoltage> alkisg: what do you see when you type 'group' from a terminal as that user? at a guess it could be something as the user not being in the video group and not being able to write to certain entries under /dev
<alkisg> highvoltage: oooops you might be right... /me looks
 * alkisg hugs highvoltage again :)
<alkisg> Finally, googleearth running flowlessly on a fat client! :)
<alkisg> That group thing also affected ping times, e.g. on teeworlds 100 msec vs 800 msec!
<highvoltage> alkisg: nice :)
<alkisg> I was thinking of advicing standalone edubuntu clients for newer school labs on my Lucid manual, but now I'm sure I'll propose fat clients instead :)
<highvoltage> stgraber: I pushed a branch for edubuntu-docs to https://code.launchpad.net/~jonathan/+junk/edubuntu-docs, last time there was a "Propose merge with branch" or something similar that I could click on to merge it again with the main branch
<highvoltage> stgraber: did I do something wrong this time that the button isn't there?
<dgroos> I've got a problem with some of my student's accounts--the panels are messed up... For example, both the top and bottom panels are at the top of the screen AND they are completely blank.  I can't add anything to them, either.  Any ideas?
<highvoltage> dgroos: do they come back if you do something like press alt+f2 and typs "killall gnome-panel" ?
<dgroos> highvoltage: I'll see...
<dgroos> The screen flashed for a moment then went back to the panel-malformed screen.
<highvoltage> dgroos: hmm, no idea what could have caused that
<dgroos> highvoltage: thanks for considering this problem.
<dgroos> I've used terminal to look at the contents of their home folders side by side, also I've looked for patterns of what's in the folders of the busted accounts with what's in the folders of students with working accounts.  Haven't seen anything major yet...
<dgroos> Any ideas for other areas to start looking for issues?
<alkisg> dgroos: to clear ALL panel settings for the current user: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
<highvoltage> yeah that's kind of last resort but probably what I'd do as well
<dgroos> pulled away by a student!  I'll give it a try soon,  thanks!
<sbalneav> And back
<sbalneav> installation successful, getting my system back to "where it was"
<dgroos> highvoltage: I typed that in and it cleared up the bad panels--they are all gone now.  I'm not sure how to create new ones.
<sbalneav> stgraber: Is sabayon on the cd by default?
<sbalneav> buh?
<sbalneav> There's no mail program installed?!
<highvoltage> who needs a mail client when you can have UbuntuOneMail!
<sbalneav> I'm assuming there's just a problem with the dvd, right?  Or are you serious?
<highvoltage> no I'm not :)
<sbalneav> whew
<highvoltage> probably just needs to be included in the seed
<sbalneav> highvoltage: You got a jabber id?
<highvoltage> I guess evolution isn't tied in so closely with gnome as it used to be, so now it probably needs to be specified manually in the seeds
<highvoltage> maybe we can do thunderbird instead :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: jonathan@jabber.org
<sbalneav> Hm, I'm signed into empathy, but my user indicator doesn't seem to work
<sbalneav> Oh, I'd LOVE us to switch to thunderbird
<highvoltage> sbalneav: who wouldn't?
<sbalneav> k, added you, you get the message from your im client?
<highvoltage> yep, accepted
<highvoltage> I still prefer pidgin though
<mhall119|work> is anyone from the edubuntu project going to be at SCaLE 8x?
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Not I
<sbalneav> Ok, with the exception of my broken indicator applet, things seem to be working well
<mhall119|work> they have an Open Source in Education focus again this year
<mhall119|work> was hoping someone would be there representing the project
<sbalneav> I don't think I've even seen anyone mention Scale, and I don't even know what it is.
<sbalneav> Did you post something on the mailing list?
<mhall119|work> nope
<sbalneav> stgraber: seems like evolution WAS on the disk, but was removed as part of the cleanup!?  seems kind of strange
<mhall119|work> Southern CAlifornia Linux Expo
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: Then how were we supposed to know? :)
<mhall119|work> I'd have thought word would get around
<mhall119|work> it's one of the biggest community-driven oss events in the USA
<sbalneav> two developers are in canada, one's in south africa, one's in greece...
<mhall119|work> ok, well that could be why
<sbalneav> You know, there's this whole big wide world outside of the US :)
<sbalneav> If you'd like someone there, post to the list
<sbalneav> maybe a loco team could have showed up.
<Ahmuck> where is SCaLE 8x held at ?
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: lies, the USA is all that matters, the TV says so
<mhall119|work> sbalneav: the California LoCo is going to be there, they're hosting an ubucon during the event
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: Los Angeles
<mhall119|work> some member of the Florida LoCo (me) will be there
<Ahmuck> mhall119|work: u going?
<mhall119|work> akgraner will be there
<mhall119|work> Ahmuck: yup
<Ahmuck> flying?
<mhall119|work> we launched Qimo there last year
<mhall119|work> yes, flying
<sbalneav> Oh, THAT is broken
<highvoltage> LA is like, on the other side of the planet for me... I guess I should start digging then
<sbalneav> Even when I *install* evolution, it doesn't show up in the menus
<mhall119|work> hm...
<sbalneav> weather's broken too, and the session-indicator-applet's borked.
<sbalneav> stgraber: what was the package that gave me the commands like "pbuilder-karmic", etc?
<sbalneav> Ooooh, that's bad
<sbalneav> apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone hangs at:
<sbalneav> Setting up ldm-server (2:2.0.53-0ubuntu1) ...
<sbalneav> root      4235  3940  0 11:26 pts/3    00:00:00 /usr/bin/dpkg --status-fd 23 --configure debconf-utils dhcp3-server openbsd-inetd ldm-server tftpd-hpa nbd-server squas
<sbalneav> root      4362  4235  0 11:26 pts/3    00:00:00 /usr/bin/perl -w /usr/share/debconf/frontend /var/lib/dpkg/info/ldm-server.postinst configure
<sbalneav> root      4368  4362  0 11:26 pts/3    00:00:00 [ldm-server.post] <defunct>
<sbalneav> root      4392     1  0 11:26 ?        00:00:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
 * Lns puts on his bugday cheerleader uniform
<Lns> GIMME A B!
<Lns> *hears echoing coughs in distance*
<sbalneav> Lns: I'm here :)
<Lns> hehe
<sbalneav> Just updated my main box to Loopy
<Lns> nice!
<Lns> loopy lynx? =p
<Lns> is that like...halfway lucid, halfway intoxicated?
<sbalneav> I updated to Loopy Lemur
<sbalneav> Don't know what the rest of you are running :)
 * Lns still runs on hairy hag
<sbalneav> Not even testing Lucid?
<sbalneav> How you gonna find bugs for us to fix?
<Lns> Well I actually just bought a nice used Dell server I'm going to be testing on =)
<Lns> just last night
<sbalneav> There you go.
<Lns> I'm thinking of putting a minimal host system with KVM on and then running VMs inside it, what would you recommend as a host?
<Lns> kvm/libvirt
<mhall119|work> ubuntu server
<mhall119|work> has support for kvm
<mhall119|work> you cna play with their cloud offering too
<Lns> mhall119|work: meh..not really interested in "cloud" computing yet. . does ubuntu server have any sort of automated installation for kvm?
<Lns> I was thinking Debian just because it's kind of what ubuntu server always tries to be anyway
<mhall119|work> I think it has kvm in the default kernel
<mhall119|work> and tools for creating vms and running them
<Lns> cool
<stgraber> sbalneav: interesting, I guess we inherit Evolution from the ubuntu seed but then ubiquity makes sure that only edubuntu-desktop is installed and so drops Evolution
<alkisg> !ltsp lucid
<alkisg> !info ltsp lucid
<ubottu> Package ltsp does not exist in lucid
<alkisg> !info ltsp-server lucid
<ubottu> ltsp-server (source: ltsp): Basic LTSP server environment. In component main, is optional. Version 5.1.98-0ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 101 kB, installed size 1256 kB
<highvoltage> Lns: yay
 * Lns goes out to his car to grab the server
<sbalneav> Anyone have any idea why when I'm signed into empathy, my indicator-applet-session isn't registering my status?
<sbalneav> oooh
<sbalneav> we need to add lspci to the deps list for the client build
<sbalneav> err
<sbalneav> pciutils
<sbalneav> Wow, something's REALLY wrong with LTSP
<sbalneav> soon as I enter the password, X just disappears
<sbalneav> hmmm
<sbalneav> wonder
<Lns> zoiks
<Lns> you mean, crashes to another tty?
<sbalneav> yup
<alkisg> sbalneav: I reported that a while back, nbd-client is called twice and that causes ldm to segfaut
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> no fix in sight?
<alkisg> Sure, see my patch in  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/505787
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 505787 in ltsp "nbd-client /dev/nbd0 is ran twice, causing ldm to segfault" [Undecided,New]
<alkisg> But it isn't a proper fix, it's a workaround
<alkisg> We still need to find out why nbd-client is ran twice. stgraber, could that be an upstart issue?
<alkisg> Grr I didn't send the patch. Anyway adding -n to pgrep solves it:   -n     Select only the newest (most recently started) of the matching processes.
<sbalneav> k one sec, lemme see
<highvoltage> sbalneav: evolution is installed by default on my edubuntu installation
<highvoltage> sbalneav: and it has the menu entry
<sbalneav> I found the menu entry
<sbalneav> it's in office
<sbalneav> not in Internet, where I'd expect it
<highvoltage> yeah
<sbalneav> but it DOESN'T update the mail indicator applet
<sbalneav> at least for me
<sbalneav> alkisg: adding the -n to pgrep fixed it
<highvoltage> sbalneav: alkisg seems to really be on top of all things ltsp related :)
<sbalneav> he's testing things far more than any of us
<alkisg> Heh :) sbalneav, don't close the bug though, we'd better see if upstart is to blame.
<sbalneav> which is why we made him a dev
<highvoltage> sbalneav: good call!
<sbalneav> yeah, but we should add the -n to the pgrep anyway
<sbalneav> as a failsafe
<alkisg> Thank you guys :) /me blushes...
<alkisg> sbalneav: no, I have a better fix
<alkisg> Calling nbd-client -c to see the particular process instead of pgrep
<sbalneav> what's the better fix?
<sbalneav> hm let me try
<alkisg> I thought I submitted it but maybe that was when my lucid decided to reboot... :D
<sbalneav> that returns the process id
<alkisg> A `ps hp $pid | awk '{print $some_number}'` is needed afterwards
<alkisg> But it should be safer as it doesn't guess which process is the correct one
<Lns> alkisg: That happens sometimes when you become lucid...you reboot. =p
<sbalneav> if we know the processid, might be faster to look at /proc/id/commandline
 * alkisg needs to lookup lucid in the dictionary :D Is that latin for light?
<sbalneav> "sane"
<alkisg> sbalneav: wouldn't that be linux-specific?
<alkisg> Heh
<sbalneav> "thinking straight"
 * alkisg ducks
<Lns> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lucid
<Lns> wow it's different than i thought.. i always associate it with dreaming only
<sbalneav> hm
<sbalneav> You know what the BEST way to fix this would be
<alkisg> To patch nbd-client? :D
<sbalneav> right
<alkisg> sbalneav: YOU GOTTA STOP SOMETIME!!!!
<highvoltage> anyone understand Launchpad well?
<highvoltage> how would we, for example, remove screem from this list? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs
<Lns> hehehe...watch scottie become upstream for nbd now too
<mhall119|work> what part of launchpad?
<mhall119|work> oh, no, sorry
<alkisg> highvoltage: just guessing, maybe an edubuntu-bugs admin should visit the screem page and unsubscribe?
<highvoltage> alkisg: I tried that yes
<alkisg> k, no idea then :)
<alkisg> Ugh another 150 Mb of Lucid updates, the 4th time since this morning...
<highvoltage> that means that everyone is back from holiday :)
<sbalneav> for DEV in /dev/nbd*; do
<sbalneav>    PID=$(nbd-client -c $DEV)
<sbalneav>    SERVER=$(ps --no-headers -p $PID -o cmd | cut -f 2)
<sbalneav>    if [ -n "$SERVER" ]; then
<sbalneav>       break
<sbalneav>    fi
<sbalneav> done
<sbalneav> hold on, gonna test something like that.
<alkisg> sbalneav: so you won't use /proc/mounts to see which /dev/nbd* devices are really being used?
<sbalneav> no, we can just look at /dev/nbd*
<sbalneav> there's only like 16 of 'em
<alkisg> That would avoid calling nbd-client multiple times, though
<sbalneav> and chances are, nbd0's what we want
<alkisg> You already have this: NBD_DEVICES=$(awk '/^\/dev\/nbd.* \/ /||/^\/dev\/nbd.* \/rofs /{print $1}' /proc/mounts)
<alkisg> Yeah you're correct about that
<sbalneav> right, so we eliminate another awk
<alkisg> okey dokey
<sbalneav> which is a heavyweight process
<sbalneav> lemme try it
<stgraber> alkisg: don't worry for NBD, the reconnect is probably my fault
<stgraber> alkisg: and that's gonna change quite a lot upstream in the next two days anyway
<alkisg> stgraber: no, the 2 nbd-client processes make ldm segfault
<stgraber> (as in, I have a working nbd proxy as of today)
<stgraber> alkisg: ah, this one ;) never saw that here
<alkisg> OK, so for now we just keep one of the nbd-client pids to prevent ldm from segfaulting, and we leave the bug open for you to fix the duplicate processes problem later...
 * alkisg doesn't know what nbd-proxy actually is...
 * alkisg looks at https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/nbd-proxy.dev ...
 * alkisg finds the docs really illuminating: "nbd-proxy(1) is a nbd proxy server blah blah fill in later"
<alkisg> :P
<dgroos> y'all lookin' really busy :)
<dgroos> highvoltage: the industrial-level desktop cleaning command you gave me: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel works like a charm!  After running it I control-alt-delete and when I log back in the user's desktop appears to be working great.  Thanks!
<dgroos> Is there some way to run that command on the server on the affected accounts?  I still don't know why this is happening.
 * alkisg slaps dgroos for not remembering that it was alkisg that gave him that command :)
<dgroos> say wha?
<alkisg> (06:16:05 Î¼Î¼) alkisg: dgroos: to clear ALL panel settings for the current user: gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel
<alkisg> (06:16:32 Î¼Î¼) highvoltage: yeah that's kind of last resort but probably what I'd do as well
<alkisg> (06:25:56 Î¼Î¼) dgroos: pulled away by a student!  I'll give it a try soon,  thanks!
<dgroos> Oops!  Sorry! (Thanks alkisg :)
<alkisg> :P
<alkisg> dgroos: you can use the --direct parameter of gconftool-2 to run this for all users, but it might be easier to put it in /etc/xdg/autostart instead,
<alkisg> so that it runs every time each user logs on. Keep it there for e.g. a week and remove it afterwards.
<stgraber> highvoltage: are you available for a skype call ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: hmm, my netbook is a bit messed up at the moment, I'll just need a minute to plug in my webcam on my desktop, etc
<stgraber> highvoltage: no need for the webcam, it doesn't work when in a conference
<highvoltage> ok just making a quick test call to check that all the sound stuff works on this machine at least...
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok ready
<sbalneav> I got a diferent mic
<sbalneav> dunno if it works
<sbalneav> boo :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: pvt?
<stgraber> sorry for that, I'm back :)
<stgraber> highvoltage, sbalneav: You guys are ready ?
<highvoltage> stgraber: sbalneav's mic is still just a bit messed up, he's going to try another computer
<stgraber> ok
<stgraber> I had to quickly fix my X server ...
<stgraber> Lucid works fine as long as you don't have to reboot ;)
<highvoltage> my netbook's filesystem (on ext4) got messed up so badly last night that every single file in my filesystem ended up being in /lost+found
<highvoltage> still not sure how that happened
<highvoltage> I installed xubuntu lucid on there, but I guess I'll go back to using gnome again on there
<highvoltage> stgraber: isn't there an interem board that we could use for the archive-reorg until the developer board is established?
<stgraber> highvoltage: not really, though the board will be announced next week IIRC
<stgraber> and I don't think we have any sponsorship issue at the moment
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok, there's a few bugs with bug fixes attached as patches, mostly for main it seems though
<stgraber> btw, is it me or hetzner is painfully slow at the moment ?
 * highvoltage checks
<stgraber> my IRC is extremely laggy, it's hard to use
<highvoltage> stgraber: it's a bit slower for me than usual, but completely usable
<highvoltage> stgraber: ping times to your hetzner box is around 410ms for me which is what I usually get
<highvoltage> stgraber: weird, ping times to my hetzner box is better though, I get around 313ms to mine
<highvoltage> they're probably in different parts of germany
<dgroos> alkisg: so I make a file, make it executable, and paste this command: "gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel && killall gnome-panel" and then put in /etc/xdg?  Who should the owner be?
<alkisg> dgroos: nope, you right click on your desktop, select to make a launcher, and put the gconftool-2 command there. Then you chmod +x the launcher and move it to /etc/xdg/autostart.
<sbalneav> stgraber: You gonna phone me back?
<sbalneav> or should I phone you?
<alkisg> dgroos: With the `sudo mv` command that you'll move it, root will be automatically the owner.
<dgroos> alkisg: thanks mucho.
<alkisg> np
<sbalneav> alkisg:
<sbalneav> if [ -z "$SERVER" -o "$SERVER" = "auto" ]; then
<sbalneav>     # check for NBD devices
<sbalneav>     for DEVICE in /dev/nbd*; do
<sbalneav>         pid=$(nbd-client -c $DEVICE)
<sbalneav>         server=$(ps --no-headers -p $pid -o cmd | cut -d ' ' -f 2)
<sbalneav>         test -n "$server" && break
<sbalneav>     done
<sbalneav>     if [ -z "$server" ]; then
<sbalneav>         # check for NFS root
<sbalneav>         server=$(sed -ne '/ltsp.*nfs/ { s/^\([^:]*\):.*$/\1/; p; q }' /proc/mounts)
<sbalneav>     fi
<sbalneav>     SERVER="${server:-192.168.0.254}"
<highvoltage> sbalneav: he's going to phone you on your voice phone
<sbalneav>     export SERVER
<sbalneav> fi
<sbalneav> alkisg: This works for me.
<alkisg> Wouldn't `[ -n "$server" ] && break` be more readable? That test looks lonely there... :)
<alkisg> sbalneav: it looks fine to me :)
<sbalneav> cool
<sbalneav> yeah, I can change the test.
<sbalneav> I'll commit to bzr
<highvoltage> sbalneav: wouldnn't it be possible to have an LTSP Session that does all the call-outs, etc and run that from GDM? or do you need root or something funny?
<alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/491940
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491940 in gnome-session "Patch for LTSP clients to properly reboot/shutdown" [Undecided,New]
<alkisg> For anyone interested, I uploaded patched packages for Lucid in my ppa:
<alkisg> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ts.sch.gr/proposed && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<alkisg> It solves the reboot/shutdown problem of ltsp clients with just 4 lines of code in gnome-session
<alkisg> The maintainer is looking for confirmation before accepting those 4 lines, so if anyone can try those and post to the bug report it'd be nice.
<sbalneav> ok, starting work on the ltspfs bug
<sbalneav> aaaaaaand fixed.
<jonathan_> ugh. lucid ate my machine
<stgraber> edubuntu images are available on the tracker
<sbalneav> "Dancing queen" is playing on my thin client
<sbalneav> mounted from a memory stick
<sbalneav> it's mounted 700
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I nearly said something nasty :)
<sbalneav> so, it's reading the stick
<sbalneav> No talking smack about abba
<sbalneav> abba's feaking awesome
<highvoltage> I'll just have to listen to some Limp Bizkit to offset that
<highvoltage> (and on CD like they did in the 1600's because lucid ate my PC)
<alkisg> highvoltage: was that a recent lucid build? Or was it alpha 1?
<alkisg> (that's the ext4 problem, isn't it?)
<sbalneav> alkisg: what was that bug number again for the nbd thingy?
<highvoltage> alkisg: lucid that I've been running for about 2 weeks and just been dist-upgrading, was originally a karmic install
<alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/505787
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 505787 in ltsp "nbd-client /dev/nbd0 is ran twice, causing ldm to segfault" [Undecided,New]
<highvoltage> alkisg: ah no I was bitten by the ext4 problem on my netbook
<alkisg> highvoltage: ah, so what's wrong with your Lucid?
<highvoltage> alkisg: I can't even boot into single-user mode, it just seems to hang after it prints the filesystem check messages
<alkisg> highvoltage: intel chipset?
<highvoltage> alkisg: yes
<alkisg> Try disabling kms
<sbalneav> k, I've commented on it and assigned it to me
<highvoltage> alkisg: ah the graphics card is nvidia
<alkisg> k, not what I experienced this morning then :-/
<highvoltage> I'm just leaving it a bit hoping whatever stalls the boot process will time-out
<highvoltage> and then I just won't reboot my computer. ever. again.
<dgroos> alkisg: Seems to have done the trick :)  Now can you tell me how to get rid of the "LTSP.org" login screen that I accidentally installed last night as I tried to get iTALC working again.
<alkisg> highvoltage: Heh... maybe you should just boot with the live cd, chroot to your disk and do an upgrade, I've heard of some nvidia problems today..
<highvoltage> alkisg: already did that
<alkisg> Ugh
<dgroos> I want my edubuntu login screen back :(
<alkisg> dgroos: is that ldm or gdm?
<dgroos> ?
<alkisg> Is that the gnome display manager?
<dgroos> I don't know how to answer that question...
<alkisg> What login screen? The one you enter your username/password?
<dgroos> yes
<highvoltage> lol
<alkisg> And, you aren't using thin clients, right?
<highvoltage> I pressed ctrl+alt+del
<dgroos> I am...
<alkisg> highvoltage: and it booted? typical... :P :D
<highvoltage> then it said "ctrl+alt+del pressed, rebooting system"
<highvoltage> and then GDM started :)
<alkisg> dgroos: and that login screen is on the server, or on the thin clients?
<highvoltage> this is after I've rebooted a few times before already by pressing ctrl+alt+delete
<dgroos> on the thin clients.
<alkisg> dgroos: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 update-alternatives --config ldm-theme
<alkisg> And then you need to run sudo ltsp-update-image
<dgroos> I installed stuff last night and then in terminal it said something like, 'you don't need these files any more, remove them'  so I did...
<dgroos> Thanks alkisg!
<alkisg> dgroos: Ugh... if you removed stuff, it might need more commands
<alkisg> What does the above command show you?
<dgroos> "There is only 1 program which provides ldm-theme (/usr/share/ldm/themes/ltsp). Nothing to configure."
<dgroos> I tried to re add edubuntu things by going to synaptic and typing 'edubuntu' and saying to add, like themes and artwork.  Then I ltsp-update-image, but it didn't work...
<alkisg> OK, then you need to install ldm-ubuntu-theme on the chroot
<alkisg> Synaptic manages programs on the server. Your problem is on the chroot, so synaptic can't fix that.
<dgroos> Right.
<alkisg> So now press ctrl + C to exit,
<alkisg> run sudo chroot apt-get install ldm-ubuntu-theme
<alkisg> and then go on with what I said before
<dgroos> 'k
<dgroos> you mean, 'sudo chroot' enter than 'sudo apt-get install ldm-ubuntu-theme'?
<alkisg> No, all in one line should work fine
<alkisg> But if you want you can also give it in two lines. You'll need to run `exit` in the second case, though.
<dgroos> I got the message: "chroot: cannot change root directory to apt-get: No such file or directory"
<alkisg> Ah sorry
<alkisg> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install ldm-ubuntu-theme
<dgroos> Cool, thanks, I selected the ubuntu theme as opposed to the ltsp theme.  Isn't there an edubuntu theme?
<alkisg> Sure but you need to install it
<alkisg> Ah no
<alkisg> It's the same for the thin clients, the one with the red stripe
<alkisg> (pretty cool :))
<dgroos> OK so I'll just update image...
<alkisg> Right
<dgroos> And my server will work while I get my tooth drilled :)  Have a good afternoon/night!
<alkisg> You too
<sbalneav> Any chance we can get sabayon added to the seeds?
<sbalneav> it'd be nice to have it on there by default.
<highvolt1ge> pity we wouldn't have it in time for alpha2
<stgraber> oh, /me thought it already was
<stgraber> so, it's in main but not included on any CD ? :)
<stgraber> seeds updated
<stgraber> will be on the next CD
<stgraber> so if it gets rebuilt before release, it'll be on alpha-2
<highvolt1ge> cool
<alkisg> stgraber: is it possible to also add the greek sounds for gcompris? laserjock added the language pack, but I think he forgot to add the gcompris sound pack...
<alkisg> I tested them, they're of professional quality
<alkisg> (gcompris-sound-el)
<alkisg> Size: 2316800
<stgraber> alkisg: that's -el I guess (if I remember my country codes correctly ;))
<alkisg> Yup
<alkisg> Thanks!
<highvolt1ge> gcompris admin tool crashes for me
<alkisg> ImportError: No module named pysqlite2
<stgraber> btw, is there any reason why we don't have all of gcompris languages on the DVD ?
<alkisg> Size, I guess...
 * alkisg doesn't care about the size as long as it fits on a DVD
<stgraber> well, last I checked we had a gig or so of free space ;)
<alkisg> highvolt1ge: sudo apt-get install python-pysqlite2
<alkisg> That fixes it, so we should fix the dependencies
<highvolt1ge> alkisg: ok, is there a bug open for that?
<alkisg> I don't see one
<stgraber> adding all the other languages is only 10 packages
<stgraber> ok, the issue was that they weren't in main, that's probably why they weren't included, though it's not really an issue now
<alkisg> Ah, yeah, fortunately we don't have to worry about that anymore :)
<stgraber> well, I do worry for some packages, I don't really for gcompris ;)
<alkisg> highvolt1ge: http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gcompris
<alkisg> It depends on python-pysqlite2 there
<stgraber> alkisg: it does in Ubuntu too though the dependency line is broken
<stgraber> Depends: gcompris-data (= 9.0-0ubuntu2), libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.29.3), libc6 (>= 2.7), libcairo2 (>= 1.4.10), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.4.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.18.0), libgnet2.0-0 (>= 2.0.8), libgstreamer0.10-0 (>= 0.10.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libpython2.6 (>= 2.6), librsvg2-2 (>= 2.26.0), libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.6.21), libx11-6, libxml2 (>= 2.7.4), python (>= 2.5) | python-pysqlite2, python-gtk2, gsg
<alkisg> Ugh
<alkisg> Yeah that's not right
<stgraber> it's: python (>= 2.5) | python-pysqlite2
<stgraber> though python-pysqlite2 wasn't merged in 2.6
<alkisg> omg... apg-get source gcompris => 119 Mb. How else can we see why we what differences we have from the debian package?
<stgraber> I'll do the upload, I can upload it in 2s
<alkisg> Nice :)
<stgraber> well, more like 10s but anyway
<alkisg> ...it'll be 20 secs if you keep writing :P :D
<sbalneav> alkisg, stgraber: point of intrest, ldm doesn't restart for me after I log out...
<alkisg> sbalneav: how did you logout? using the gnome menus?
<alkisg> Or do you mean by pressing the ldm button for restart?
<sbalneav> alkisg: By pressing on the little power symbol next to my name.
<sbalneav> and selecting "logout"
<alkisg> Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant what button did you press to invoke the rebooting
<alkisg> Because e.g. there are menus included in "applications > other" for rebooting directly from the session,
<alkisg> and there's also the patch I sent to gnome session
<alkisg> Anyway all methods work for me, except that some times it hangs instead of rebooting/shutting down
<stgraber> seeds updated and new meta uploaded
<alkisg> stgraber ftw!
<sbalneav> No, ldm's not coming back up after I logout
<stgraber> I also have gcompris uploading at the moment, though hetzner is really a bit slow, I'm only uploaded at 1-2MB/s
<sbalneav> I'm just getting a text screen
<alkisg> Oooh I did't get that
<highvoltage> stgraber: what's your usual upload speeds?
<stgraber> highvoltage: 12MB/s to ftp.ubuntu.com
<stgraber> last gcompris upload took a bit over 10s
<highvoltage> wow
<alkisg> sbalneav: just tried again, everything working here...
<sbalneav> Hmmm
<sbalneav> weird
<alkisg> Too late here to go on... nice bug day, thank you all. If you like, post a comment to LP #491940 :) Good night!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 491940 in gnome-session "Patch for LTSP clients to properly reboot/shutdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/491940
<highvoltage> one moment...
<highvoltage> http://paste.ubuntu.com/355765/
<highvoltage> that's what I get when I run the gcompris admin module
<highvoltage> even with the python-pysqlite2 package installed
<highvoltage> (and before it's installed too)
<highvoltage> installing the python-rsvg package fixed it for me
<stgraber> are you saying I need to upload 120MB again ? ;)
<highvoltage> sorry :)
<stgraber> yeah, hetzner is back !!
<stgraber> 13s to upload that version of gcompris
<highvoltage> :D
<sbalneav> wonder how hard it would be for a vncviewer screen script.
<highvoltage> stgraber: how do we change the packages that are listed on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs ?
<highvoltage> we don't care about screem or kino anymore
<highvoltage> and we need to add things like pitivi to that list
<sbalneav> Oooh, I'm getting "not a tty" on the ldm command line
<stgraber> highvoltage: if you go to some /ubuntu/+source/<blah> you can change that
<sbalneav> something's not happy.
<stgraber> sbalneav: hehe, maybe not ldm but my VT change (the one I warned about on the ML)
 * sbalneav goes to look
<stgraber> though it worked for me, but I'm pretty sure there are cases I didn't test
<sbalneav> stgraber: I'll take a peek, it's probably something like that.
<sbalneav> going to cook dinner for family, back in a bit
<highvoltage> should I modify the seeds for the universe apps we have been wanting to add for a long time now for tomorrows build?
<stgraber> highvoltage: feel free to provide a patch or a branch and I'll have a look + commit
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I guess that's it from me tonight, I guess bug day never ends
<highvoltage> goodnight stgraber and sbalneav (and anyone else who's still awake!)
<stgraber> good night
<Lns> 'night highvoltage
#edubuntu 2010-01-13
<sbalneav> back from dinner
<sbalneav> stgraber: hmmm, I restarted the console by killing off the screen_session 07 process, and re-starting it
<sbalneav> interesting.  This time it restarted.
<sbalneav> stgraber: when you get a second, could you push xaos in my ppa?  I enabled pthreads
<sbalneav> tested, seems to work
<HedgeMage> Well I made it for bug day...barely.
<sbalneav> hehe
<sbalneav> I fixed about 4 or 5 bugs
<HedgeMage> I'll spend a little time on the web site to-dos for sure
<sbalneav> cool
<HedgeMage> I'm not sure what, if anything, happened with it while I was busy moving.
<sbalneav> Ah, are you moved now?
<HedgeMage> We're settled in at the new place now (sort of -- still lots to unpack and put away).
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, hi :) how was the moving to a new state
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: hectic and crazy, but thankfully over.
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, :) must have been a lot of work
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: It always is.  I'm glad we're here now, with just the unpacking and such to worry about.
<HedgeMage> Oooh!  My housemate is making us tea :D
<HedgeMage> I'll brb...I need to switch WMs for a moment.
<HedgeMage> Much better :)
<HedgeMage> Okay, really done now.
<HedgeMage> :)
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: So has anything happened with the web site since last I was around?
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, sorry I haven't had much time, my exams are going on right now so that and I am working on kdelibs too, so sorry
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: don't be sorry at all... I was just trying to see how much catching up I have to do :)
<sbalneav> anyone who's interested in art, have a look at gartoon-redux in my ppa for lucid.
<sbalneav> I'm liking it, and thinking we should switch from gartoon.
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: can you imagebin a screenie of it in use?  I'm on a pretty iconless flux theme atm, but I'd like to take a look.
<sbalneav> one sec
<HedgeMage> thanks!
<sbalneav> HedgeMage: http://imagebin.ca/view/kwtpw0.html
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: Oooh!  I really like them.  Less crayon-looking, more modern-cartoony :D
<sbalneav> yeah, looks nice
<HedgeMage> I think I'm off to bed
<HedgeMage> ttyal
<alkisg> Hey noone posted "edubuntu bug day minutes" on the list?!!!
<alkisg> (good morning all btw) :)
<viggy_prabhu> hi friends,
<viggy_prabhu> i just downloaded a edubuntu 9.10 iso through torrent
<viggy_prabhu> i need to check its md5sum
<viggy_prabhu> can anybody send a link where i can find its md5sum?
<viggy_prabhu> ?
<viggy_prabhu> got it
<viggy_prabhu> thanks
<alkisg> Goooooood news! Lucid will have a new alternatives system for the graphics drivers, so that many proprietary drivers can be installed simultaneously.
<alkisg> So it's possible to have all proprietary drivers in the chroot (both for thin and fat clients), and an initscript to just call update-alternatives for the correct driver.
<stgraber> well, currently it mainly means we can't have a laptop with working video driver ;)
<alkisg> Heh :D
<stgraber> also, the binary drivers don't help for 3D accelaration as that doesn't work over the network
<alkisg> If that actually works for Lucid, it'll be nice to create an "--install-all-binary-drivers" ltsp-build-client plugin
<stgraber> you'd need the right GL library both on the application server and on the thin client
<stgraber> at least it's the case for nvidia and ati
<alkisg> stgraber: it helps *a lot* for fat clients
<alkisg> I don't know about you, but that fat client plugin worked wonders for me
<alkisg> I'll advice all Greek schools using linux to use it, if they have good enough labs...
<alkisg> stgraber, highvoltage: btw, would you mind if I did some major changes in 030-fat-client, and of course test them?
<highvoltage> alkisg: go ahead
<alkisg> Thanks! :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: fat clients can work very very nicely if you have a super-fast network and store the nbd image in RAM :)
<alkisg> highvoltage: I've only tried it on my 100mbps home network for now, and it was much better than I expected
<alkisg> The typical usage here in schools is: 1 server with e.g. 4 Gb RAM and 10 clients
<alkisg> In this case, the nbd image will be loaded in RAM after some minutes of usage
<alkisg> So for the next week I'd like to make the fat chroot building as automatic as possible
<dgroos1> Good Morning
<alkisg> Hi dgroos1
<dgroos1> Busy day yesterday--hugging bugs till many were squaaashed!
<alkisg> highvoltage: did you have problems running any particular programs from the fat clients? E.g. googleearth needs SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=false in lts.conf to run...
<highvoltage> good afternoon dgroos1
<dgroos1> highvoltage: :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: on Intrepid I ran googleearth just fine on fat clients
<alkisg> Yeah intrepid din't have ssh symlinks on by default
<highvoltage> alkisg: ah, but I did use nfs for home
<highvoltage> alkisg: I haven't ran googleearth from the current implementation yet
<alkisg> nfs for home? How was that handled by the fat plugin?
<highvoltage> alkisg: but it's a good thing to test
<highvoltage> alkisg: that was all manual, no plugins or anything nice
<alkisg> Ah, ok
<alkisg> I think there are lots of possibilities opening now with fat cilents, e.g. copying italc keys, configuring squid etc on the clients...
<alkisg> A lot of settings could be done automatically by an "edubuntu fat customization plugin" or something
<highvoltage> yeah you could even use it to run a bunch of diskless servers
<highvoltage> (if you have very trustworthy storage, etc)
<alkisg> I'm going to do such a "configure everything" plugin for schools here, but probably many of those would be useful for other schools as well,
<alkisg> so I'd like to send upstream whatever others will find useful
<highvoltage> yep, let's include as much of it as possible
<alkisg> Yey! :)
<alkisg> I'm also thinking to allow the use of a user-provided configuration file to specify all those options (e.g. /etc/ltsp/fat-client.conf), as configuration files are easier to ship/edit. Not all teachers can specify a loooong list of --late-packages xyz --copy-italc-keys --configure-squid --configure-apt-caching etc in a terminal... :) OK, we'll see, /me starts writing a strategy...
<dgroos1> alkisg: all the fixes you gave me yesterday worked :)
<alkisg> dgroos1, nice :)
<dgroos1> What's up with this rouge file--it was in a users home directory: Here's my output with ls -la: "d?????????   ? ?        ?            ?                ? .gvfs"  Can I simply delete this file?  (trying to do some 'home cleaning' ;))
<moldy> dgroos1: it's uses by gnome
<dgroos1> moldy: hi.  It seems that if it has the permissions so messed up as per the Terminal output, it isn't helping the user, anyway?  Does it get re-created upon login?
 * alkisg notes that there's a configuration file he didn't know about: /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf
<moldy> dgroos1: yes, it does
<moldy> dgroos1: you should ignore it usually
<dgroos1> moldy: thanks.
<moldy> dgroos1: google for gnome/gvfs if you want to learn more
<dgroos1> will do.
<dgroos1> Read some wikipedia articles--so since it 'allows supported virtual files systems to be mounted through FUSE' and LTSP is a virtual file system, gvfs is key to mounting a thin client users gnome interface?
<sbalneav> Morning all
<sbalneav> dgroos1: No, gvfs is used to handle things like trash, burning cd's, remote filesystem access via nautilus, etc.
<sbalneav> it doesn't care wether you're on the console or a thin client.
<dgroos> Morning to you (afternoon to alkisg, highvoltage and moldy--anyone in a time zone where it's night still/already?:))
<dgroos> sbalneav--ok thanks
<moldy> dgroos1: hi :)
<moldy> dgroos: just out of curiosity: how do you know my timezone?
<sbalneav> Are we still shipping denemo?
 * highvoltage fires up virtualbox to make sure
<sbalneav> it's not installed on my box at home which I just upgraded yesterday from the dvd build
<sbalneav> so either a) we need to add it to the seeds (my vote) or b) take it off the bug page.
 * alkisg doesn't have it on his edubuntu Lucid box
<highvoltage> I'll remove it from the list
* highvoltage changed the topic of #edubuntu to: Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu | http://www.edubuntu.org | wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu | 9.10 is released!, see http://www.edubuntu.org/news/9.10-release | Help out with bugs: http://tinyurl.com/EduBugs | LTSP questions? try #ltsp
<sbalneav> So, we've dropped denemo?
<alkisg> Is there any reason for disabling the installation of Recommends:" in fat clients?
<stgraber> alkisg: recommends should be disable by default in the chroot
<alkisg> stgraber: for fat clients? why?
<stgraber> not only for fat clients
<alkisg> It is disabled for thin clients, but I'm thinking we shouldn't disable it for fat clients
<alkisg> This way fat clients will behave more like normal workstations. Otherwise we'll be having many users complaining about missing packages..
<alkisg> I think we can mark the packages we don't want (e.g. gdm) with some apt configuration file
<stgraber> we can try changing that plugin to only disable recommends when --fat-client isn't set
<stgraber> but we'll need some testing for that
<alkisg> Right
<alkisg> I'll give the next few days to all that, I'll just be asking here for confirmations once in a while :)
<alkisg> (thanks!)
<stgraber> ok, feel free to nag highvoltage about it ;)
<alkisg> Heh, ok :(
<alkisg> (I guess my questions will be more ltsp specific than highvoltage can answer...)
<stgraber> ok, then ping me :)
<alkisg> Ok :)
<highvoltage> alkisg: or ping me then I'll ping stgraber :)
<alkisg> lol :D
<highvoltage> sbalneav: I looked over the bugs filed against ltsp, they seem mostly relevant
<sbalneav> highvoltage: there's about 15 or so out of the 50 that are kind of "other peoples problems", but I'm more than happy to have them under LTSP, since they do affect us.
<sbalneav> what I need to do is get a bit more proactive about "also affects" tagging
<dgroos1> moldy: just got back and see your question.
<dgroos1> I like to be able to picture/make connections in my head so I right clicked on 'moldy', selected, 'info' copied your name, pasted it in google, selected the ubuntu web page (or was it launchpad page?) clicked on your name, and on your launchpad page you have provided the info where you live so I just looked at the map there and noted it was *about* the same latitude as alkisg and highvoltage.  I like the local/world context :)
<highvoltage> heh
<highvoltage> yes I guess the way we see the world is vastly different than previous generations
<highvoltage> oh dear
<highvoltage> we should've probably made more noise about the edubuntu meeting
<highvoltage> alkisg, stgraber, sbalneav, dgroos1... edubuntu meeting now...
 * alkisg got here just in time (by sheer luck :P)
<dgroos1> I've got 8 minutes before I've got to run to a meeting...  Where's it at again?
<mhall119|work> dgroos1: #ubuntu-meeting
<dgroos1> mhall119|work: thanks!
<stgraber> highvoltage: sorry, was in a meeting at this time, I forgot to put it in Zimbra so it didn't conflict with my existing meeting ...
<alkisg> Not LTSP related: How can I share a printer between two regular ubuntu machines?
<alkisg> I see a "share printer" check box in the printer properties, but I don't see how I'll locate it from the other pc
<sbalneav> alkisg: It should just "show up"
<alkisg> Ugh...
<alkisg> That's what I'm trying: http://blog.mypapit.net/2008/05/enable-printer-sharing-with-ubuntu-computers.html
<sbalneav> See, I always just edit cupsd.conf and printers.conf directly.
<alkisg> sbalneav: never mind it just showed up!
<alkisg> Automatically, like you said, I did nothing on the client...
<sbalneav> yeah, it sometimes takes ab bit.
<sbalneav> I think cups only rescans for IPP printers once every few minutes.
<sbalneav> What's REALLY helpful, that isn't in the gui, is restricting based on user/group
<alkisg> Up until now, I've only used printing with ltsp, so it was as simple as it gets
<sbalneav> So, in your printers.conf, you can say things like:
<sbalneav> AllowUser alkisg
<sbalneav> or
<sbalneav> AllowGroup Marketing
<alkisg> What about quotas per user?
<alkisg> I.e. "each user can print 100 pages per month"
<alkisg> Is that doable?
<sbalneav> Hmmm, not sure if cups does quotas.... lemme see
<stgraber> alkisg: for fat clients, just make your application server listen on the network for CUPS request (instead of localhost) and set CUPS_SERVER=<ip of your server> in lts.conf
<stgraber> alkisg: that'll make cups works for localapps/fatclient automagically
<sbalneav> http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/CUPS-printing.html#id2647421
 * alkisg notes down what stgraber just said, but has no clue what he said just yet :D
<stgraber> you don't have quota in cups but you can use an external module (pyquota IIRC) to store that info in LDAP
<stgraber> alkisg: I assumed you're trying to make printing works for fat clients ?
<sbalneav> lpadmin -p quotaprinter -o job-quota-period=604800 \ -o job-k-limit=1024 -o job-page-limit=100
<alkisg> stgraber: no, but what you said is more useful than what I was trying to do :D
<stgraber> alkisg: ok ;)
<alkisg> Hey, thanks sbalneav. I'll not that down as well
<sbalneav> that limits you to jobs no bigger than 1 meg or 100 pages during a 1 week period
<alkisg> *note
<stgraber> sbalneav: that's per printer though, not per user, is it ?
<sbalneav> per printer, yes.
<sbalneav> I'm not sure cups can handle per user.
<stgraber> sbalneav: as I mentioned, you can, using pyquota or whatever it's called, it stores that in LDAP in the user record
<sbalneav> Ah, cool, never looked at pyquota.
<sbalneav> Here a legalaid, printing's unlimited.
<stgraber> I guess we have a customer where we deployed it, we had it here too at some point but dropped it. It requires good management and pretty much nobody was using our CUPS server anyway here ;)
<stgraber> they are talking directly to the printers using IPP and their local cups ;)
<dgroos1> Here's my 2 cents... As a teacher it is very important to be able to set printing limits--especially in places where there are more students of the limit-testing type.  I've had students printing out 50 pages of 'cheats' for a video game or printing out 10 copies of a large photo unrelated to the content.  I've had beginning students accidentally print out 30 copies of the same project.  Having quotas is basic functionality needed in any lab sit
<dgroos1> sorry for the paragraph :)
<sbalneav> dgroos1: Well, looks like cups supports per-printer directly, and with pyquota you can do per-user
<stgraber> we have an edubuntu image to test
<stgraber> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all
<stgraber> both needs testing, for these who downloaded one for the bug day, you may want to use rsync to get only the difference ;)
<sbalneav> did you roll new ltsp-trunk and ltspfs-trunk packages?
<stgraber> nope, I'll upload after alpha-2 is released
<sbalneav> or is that not till next week
<sbalneav> right
<sbalneav> that's what I thought.
 * highvoltage rsyncs
<dgroos1> sbalneav: you may find this hard to believe, but I struggled getting a printer to even print (problem was that the printer had an ip that was incompatible with my local network).
<dgroos1> So, my dream of edubuntu being used in all classroom requires not *just* solutions but really simple solutions for the numerous basic functions that a teacher would need.  Of course, they don't have to be basic enough for a non or semi-tech-able teacher, but a tech should be able to figure it out.
<sbalneav> Nice dream :)
<dgroos1> Is there a list, somewhere, of the basic functionality a classroom lab would need?  I think I might have put it somewhere...
<sbalneav> At the end of the day, you are setting up technology.
<sbalneav> If you get a cast off printer with a network card that's got a hard-programmed incorrect ip address, that's not something we're going to be able to code around.
<sbalneav> and some of the stuff you'd need for simple solutions isn't coded yet.
<sbalneav> So, yeah, we'll get there, but it's not going to happen tomorrow :)
<dgroos1> 'tis a dream but with some communication between the teacher and programming worlds, we could come up with a list of apps, of functions, then focus on just those and make them super-suave, super-slick.  You know, like what you've done with sabayon, that is one of those 'basic functions' a teacher needs, and it is easy to use and it works.  I've not had any problems with it.
<sbalneav> Sure, well, that's where making spec's on launchpad, and prioritizing what's needed, etc, is an important part of the project.
<dgroos1> I agree.  I've been thinking about this for some time now.  What can teachers add to edubuntu.  Not sure this is the time to get into it and it should probably be to the lists.
<sbalneav> And here's what I've been on about for years.
<sbalneav> You've been *thinking*
<sbalneav> and don't take this the wrong way, I'm not ragging on you, but we need less *thinking* and more *doing*
<sbalneav> so by all means, post it to the list
<sbalneav> get a discussion going,
<sbalneav> write a spec
<sbalneav> etc.
<sbalneav> that's how things get turned into code.
<sbalneav> We've made some serious progress in that department
<sbalneav> guys like alkis, etc have come on board, and it's really beginning to feel as if the ships starting to move somewhere.
<dgroos1> You are right, I've not added a lot to edubuntu development at this point.  However, because of the (literally) hundreds of 'extra' hours I've put in trying to make it work in my classroom, hundreds of students know and use Edubuntu--use the edubuntu that you have helped create :-)
<sbalneav> But I've seen this all too often, this is the time when the people who've been hoping for something to get going, sit back and say "whew, well, things are moving now, looks like I can rest easy", when this is exactly the time to get even MORE busy :)
<dgroos1> guys like alkisg have done things so that thousands of students know and use edubuntu.  He is in a unique position to be astride both worlds and he leverages that!
<sbalneav> absolutely
<highvoltage> /topic yay alkisg \o/
<sbalneav> I'm purely a tech, and I've never taught anything outside of a few minor java courses.
<alkisg> :P
<alkisg> dgroos1: sure, not all teachers are able or even have the time to help with development. Just putting edubuntu in classrooms sometimes needs more strength than developing a full blown app.
<sbalneav> years ago
<alkisg> dgroos1: but on the other hand, we've had lots and lots of people here that came, said how they'd like edubuntu to be, and done exactly nothing to accomplish it...
<dgroos1> Yes, indeed.  For me to act I need to know what I'm doing.  And as a slow but thorough thinker, this takes a while :)
<sbalneav> Anywho, time for me to head home.
<sbalneav> be on later tonight, as always
<sbalneav> cya
<alkisg> Bye sbalneav :)
<dgroos1> Bye sbalneav
<dgroos1> even in my short (12-15 months) time I've been around edubuntu I've seen a lot of passionate people enter this room, move about, then leave.
<dgroos1> I'm not saying that 'you ought to do this', I'm saying 'I've been thinking a lot and I think we ought to do this'.  But...
<dgroos1> my style is to toss ideas into the fray and see how they develop--kind of group thinking :) so sorry if they aren't so developed--that the help I'm asking of y'all.
<dgroos1> OK.  My big question is, how can 'teachers' who of course have as much unique professional knowledge as do programmers, add to this enterprise--in addition to making the effort to teach with Edubuntu.
<dgroos1> oops .=?
<dgroos1> It seems that one of the goals of our community (edubuntu community) is to help develop children/help children develop with FLOSS, esp. Edubuntu--is this so?  What do you think?
<dgroos1> OK-- so I was talking to my self-- e-mail is better format, perhaps...
#edubuntu 2010-01-14
<mhall119> sbalneav, do I remember correctly that you're a Gnome developer?
<Ahmuck> any suggestions for webdav/caldav/groupdav?
<Ahmuck> i've looked at a couple, sogo, bedework
<Ahmuck> iirc, one of them can work in conjuction with moodle
<Ahmuck> and schooltool
<mhall119> I think there is an apache module for webdav
<sbalneav> mhall119: Yes
<stgraber> sbalneav: we have an issue ;)
<sbalneav> what's up?
<stgraber> sbalneav: basically, if sabayon is installed you never get to a gnome desktop
<sbalneav> !?
<sbalneav> I've got it installed right now
<stgraber> I've been doing test rebuild for the last 2 hours and I'm currently dropping sabayon off the seed and meta so we can get a working alpha-2
<stgraber> yeah, on a desktop it's fine
<stgraber> it's failing in the live environment
<sbalneav> Oh, ok, I've never tested it there.
<stgraber> only issue is that it's extremely difficult to debug ...
<sbalneav> does the current dvd have it on?
<stgraber> if you happen to have the image 20100103 you'll notice the issue, for testing I rebuilt that same image myself => still the use, then without sabayon => working desktop
<stgraber> yeah, that's why I've been rushing to drop it so we at least have a bootable alpha-2
<sbalneav> k, how do I rsync the current dvd so I can test it.
<stgraber> actually, I've been spending two hours trying to debug it before choosing to drop it off the dvd ;)
<sbalneav> it's the apply that'll be failing
<stgraber> that's what I suspected too but it's not the case and that's where it gets very very weird
<stgraber> I have an image here with sabayon installed, the Xsession.d script removed and it's still failing to load a desktop
<sbalneav> well, it has to be the sabayon-apply, that's the only thing that would get run
<alkisg> Good morning guys. What ltsp version is in alpha-2? Is the one with the ldm segfaulting problem fixed? (the 2 nbd-client processes) - some people are asking to test the fat clients script...
<stgraber> alkisg: I didn't upload a new ltsp yet, I'll be doing that after alpha-2 is released
<stgraber> sbalneav: rsync -tzhhP rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/cdimage/edubuntu/dvd/20100113/lucid-dvd-i386.iso .
<stgraber> that'll get you the broken image
<stgraber> it's been confirmed on both amd64 and i386
<alkisg> Ugh so it's broken :( ok I'll tell them to wait for a new LTSP upload, and to update before installing ltsp.
<sbalneav> stgraber: ok, rsyncing now
<sbalneav> just go ahead and drop it, I'll figure out what's causing the failure.
<alkisg> stgraber: I'd like to test and do the 010-fat-client => 030-fat-client commit before your next ltsp upload, do I have 1-2 days to do so?
<stgraber> alkisg: I'm planning on uploading it tomorrow afternoon, once I've nbd-proxy running properly, so for you that's almost a day ;)
<alkisg> It'll suffice, thanks :)
<sbalneav> I was figuring if it was on the disk it would install on the text based installer. I wasn't expecting it to be in the live environment.
<stgraber> sbalneav: we added it to the edubuntu-desktop package as a recommends, so it's everywhere
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> well, if it's breaking things on live, by all means, ditch it.
 * sbalneav scratches head
<alkisg> sbalneav: there isn't any >= 1000 uid user on the live cd, would that matter?
<stgraber> I'm doing some tests here, trying to alter a broken image during its boot sequence so I can debug it
<sbalneav> sabayon-apply pretty much just bails if there's no users.xml or groups.xml
<stgraber> regenering a whole DVD image takes me almost an hour so it makes debugging extremely painful ;)
<sbalneav> right.
<sbalneav> for debugging, could we mount -bind something ?  I'm assuming you can log in on a text console
<stgraber> you can't logon
<stgraber> vt1 is a broken X, vt2 is some console showing "Authentication failure", vt7 is another broken X
<stgraber> other VTs are dead
<sbalneav> ouch
<stgraber> yeah, I'm really wondering how sabayon can do that ;)
<stgraber> because I get all VTs working correctly once it's gone ;)
<sbalneav> shouldn't be possible
<stgraber> ok, found a way to change a broken DVD at boot time, let's try to get some debug info ;)
<sbalneav> geez, teach me to take an evening off to go to Robbie Burns night at lodge :)
<stgraber> only thing I get is "Authentication failure" repeated 10 times on vt1 and broken X ...
<stgraber> let's reboot and drop sabayon, then I'll try dropping the sabayon user and group, then the python code, then ...
<stgraber> alkisg: we'll need some iso testing during night here in Canada, will you be able to test the Edubuntu DVD images ?
<stgraber> alkisg: if you have already one somewhere, you can use the command I gave sbalneav to update it
<stgraber> alkisg: I'd really like to have an Edubuntu alpha-2 release as we didn't have alpha-1 and we are very very close to release time
<alkisg> stgraber: will do. When should I rsync? In a few hours?
<stgraber> alkisg: look at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all
<alkisg> OK, I have the amd64 version, I'll test that.
<stgraber> I just marked them both as invalid, they'll be marked as ready for testing once they are rebuilt
<stgraber> ok, Xsession.d is really not at fault, trying to drop the user and group now
<sbalneav> if [ "$1" = "configure" ] ; then
<sbalneav>     if ! getent group sabayon-admin >/dev/null; then
<sbalneav>         groupadd --system sabayon-admin
<sbalneav>     fi
<sbalneav>     if ! getent passwd sabayon-admin >/dev/null; then
<sbalneav>         useradd --system --home /var/run/sabayon-admin \
<sbalneav>             -c "Sabayon user" --gid sabayon-admin sabayon-admin
<sbalneav>         mkdir -p /var/run/sabayon-admin
<sbalneav>         chown sabayon-admin:sabayon-admin /var/run/sabayon-admin
<sbalneav>     fi
<sbalneav> fi
<sbalneav> that's the postinst for sabayon
<sbalneav> which is what it's been, packaging wise, for a while
<sbalneav> the only thing I've done to the postinst is add --system
<sbalneav> since the user and groupids should be < 1000
<sbalneav> I notice on my system the userid and groupid are 999, which is unusual for a system id
<sbalneav> could that be a problem?   what's the live user's id?
<stgraber> sbalneav: on removal, it says that the sabayon-admin group doesn't exist
<stgraber> and if I remove sabayon after the initramfs script it still doesn't work
<stgraber> so something is conflicting with sabayon inside the initramfs ...
<sbalneav> Well, I don't know how live cds actualy work, but as a normal package, it doesn't put anything anywhere CLOSE to an initramfs.
<stgraber> ok, seems like the ubuntu user isn't getting created for some reason
<sbalneav> it's gotta be something with the userids and group ids or homedir it creates
<stgraber> uid is 999
<stgraber> for the livecd user
<stgraber> and so is sabayon-admin's
<stgraber> the uid for the livecd user is hardcoded in the script
<sbalneav> how's sabayon getting 999
<sbalneav> hmm
<sbalneav> other scripts seem to use adduser
<sbalneav> wheras the sabayon postinst uses useradd
<stgraber> no idea but that's the uid it got when installed in the live environment ...
<sbalneav> ok, if I update the postinst, and push something to my ppa, do we have enough time to try?
<sbalneav> or are you ready to collapse
<sbalneav> this can wait 'till the next alpha
<stgraber> we won't make it for alpha-2, the DVD is already building and it takes at least two hours before we can retry another one
<sbalneav> ok, well, we know what the problem is: faulty sabayon postinst
<stgraber> though I'd like to have that fixed ASAP so the next DVD build after alpha-2 can be tested to make sure we have that fixed
<sbalneav> I'll fix it right now
<sbalneav> gimme 10
<stgraber> well, calling useradd isn't "wrong", adduser is a debian-specific script on top of useradd
<stgraber> what I just don't get is why --system assigns the highest uid and not the lowest
<stgraber> though all packages seem to use adduser
<stgraber> so let's use adduser and it'll fix everything (at least it should)
<stgraber> oh, or just add: -K UID_MIN=1
<stgraber> that should fix the issue
<stgraber> nope, doesn't work, just use adduser ;)
<sbalneav> yep, one sec
<stgraber> and also use addgroup instead of groupadd
<stgraber> as the gid will be the next issue we'll have otherwise ;) (I noticed it's also 999 so would also conflict)
<sbalneav> I've just converted it to a adduser --group
<sbalneav> single lne
<sbalneav> Stole it from the nbd postinst script
<sbalneav> package is building now
<sbalneav> works
<sbalneav> uids are low now
<sbalneav> 118 or so
<sbalneav> on my box here
<sbalneav> what's faster, grabbing something from my ppa, or me pasting the postinst here
<sbalneav> #!/bin/sh
<sbalneav> set -e
<sbalneav> if [ "$1" = "configure" ] ; then
<sbalneav>     if ! id sabayon-admin >/dev/null 2>&1; then
<sbalneav>         adduser --system --group --home /var/run/sabayon-admin \
<sbalneav>             sabayon-admin
<sbalneav>     fi
<sbalneav> fi
<sbalneav> #DEBHELPER#
<stgraber> I can upload that in like 10s
<stgraber> though we found what was causing useradd to use 999
<stgraber> it's a bug in /etc/login.defs
<sbalneav> ah, so we've uncovered a bug in another program with our packaging :)
<sbalneav> geez, stgraber, this has caused you a headache for sure.  Man, am I sorry.
<stgraber> no problem ;)
<stgraber> slangasek and persia are now debating about adduser and useradd not respecting /etc/login.defs and having their own configuration ;)
<sbalneav> the original packaging from the old programs used useradd, but before, they didn't use --system
<stgraber> something is clearly broken and will need fixing
<sbalneav> you must have had that convo in the secret ubuntu-dev channel
<sbalneav> it's not in regular ubuntu-devel :)
<stgraber> it's in ubuntu-testing actually ;)
<sbalneav> ah
<sbalneav> heh
<sbalneav> so does that seem to fix things?
<sbalneav> spose we'll have to wait till the next daily build :(
<stgraber> it should
<sbalneav> so we won't have this for alpha 2 then.
<stgraber> ok, sabayon uploaded
<stgraber> nope, we won't have it for alpha-2 but we'll have the build just after and people updating their alpha-2 will get it too
<sbalneav> perfect.
<sbalneav> Well another bug squashed.
<sbalneav> Sabayon seems cursed.
<sbalneav> broken like heck, fix it.
<sbalneav> Sabayon works, gksu breaks.
<sbalneav> fix that
<sbalneav> sabayon works, gksu works, useradd breaks :)
<stgraber> hehe
 * stgraber goes to revert his change on the seed + meta
<stgraber> seed done
<sbalneav> stgraber: Next BTS, all your drinks and dinners are on me :)
<sbalneav> ok, the old fart's exhausted
<sbalneav> I'm off to bed, you get some sleep too
<stgraber> good night :)
<stgraber> drings and dinners, sounds interesting :) I'll need to make a note of that ;)
<stgraber> *drings (yeah, it's late)
<stgraber> *drinks (..... keyboard)
<alkisg> highvolt1ge: I think the edubuntu live dvd is still broken due to sabayon, can you help? (e.g. remove it from the seeds)?
<alkisg> Or should we wait for stgraber?
<alkisg> (it'll be too late then, won't it?)
<highvolt1ge> alkisg: my sync will finish shortly then I could test as well, but stgraber will have to make the seed changes
<alkisg> highvolt1ge: ok, that was with the i386 build, I'll try now with the amd64 one
<ogra> you guys should really subscribe to lucid-changes ;)
<ogra> edubuntu-meta (1.76) lucid; urgency=low
<ogra>   * Refreshed dependencies
<ogra>   * Added sabayon to desktop-gnome-recommends
<ogra> seems he just added it today
<alkisg> ogra: he removed it because it broke autologin and then added it right afterwards because they supposedly found a fix :-/
<ogra> ah
<alkisg> But that fix was in useradd or something like that (stgraber talked to some ubuntu devs in #ubuntu-testing, I didn't see the convo)
<ogra> sabayon (2.29.5~rc1-0ubuntu2) lucid; urgency=low
<ogra>   * Change postinst to user adduser instead of useradd (by Scott Balneaves).
<ogra>     (Fixes Live CD bug where sabayon would have the same UID as the live user)
<alkisg> Anyway now sabayon user id = 999, the same as the live user id, and that makes login impossible
<ogra> check if your iso has that sabayon version on it
<alkisg> k
<mhall119> sbalneav, jono just posted that Canonical is looking to hire a couple Gnome devs
<alkisg> ogra, I got a question though, "how can I check sabayon version in a CD where I cannot login?" :D
<alkisg> Mount iso, mount squashfs and chroot?
<ogra> the manifest file
<alkisg> Ah, looking...
<ogra> on cdimage where you downloaded your iso ;)
<ogra> (manifest for live, .list file for alternate)
<alkisg> sabayon 2.29.5~rc1-0ubuntu1
<alkisg> Hmmm so the cd spin whatsyamacallit that stgraber did before he slept didn't get the new version
<alkisg> highvolt1ge: so we need to request a new build of the dvd...
<highvoltage> stgraber: eek, did you get much sleep at all?
<stgraber> highvoltage: a bit over 4 hours ;)
<stgraber> alkisg: I requested another respin, we should have another image in 1-2 hours including a working sabayon
<stgraber> sbalneav will be happy ;)
<alkisg> stgraber: nice! Now get back to bed :)
<stgraber> nah, I'm at the office now, starting to work for a full day + server hardware change this evening so I'll be leaving quite late ;)
<alkisg> While trying the new fat client script, I'm getting a lot of those messages, should I be worrying?
<alkisg> debconf: (Failed to open fd 3: Bad file descriptor at (eval 24) line 3)
<stgraber> as long as it's during ltsp-build-client, that's fine
<alkisg> Yes, and it complains about initializing the passthough environment. Thanks, I'll ignore it
<dgroos> Good morning
<alkisg> highvoltage: any objections on commiting this updated fat client script in a while, when I'm done testing? http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m7bc4e0c5
<dgroos> I'm still getting no success with iTALC--I still get the message: Somebody tried to access this computer but could not authenticate itself successfuly! I've done a complete removal of iTALC, I've tried installing both on the server and on the client--no luck.  Currently I'm installed on the client.
<dgroos> googling hasn't helped, nor has this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc.  I'm guessing it's a key problem, but don't know how to check/fix.
<alkisg> dgroos, alpha 2 is to be out in a few hours, so if you don't get enough help on troubleshooting iTalc today, try again tomorrow
<alkisg> That wiki page needs to be deleted :D
<alkisg> Usually `sudo apt-get install italc-master` on the server, and logoff/logon is ALL that is needed.
<alkisg> But people start installing it to the chroot and things get complicated... :)
<dgroos> I'll purge and give a re-try, thanks.
<dgroos> Good luck everyone on alpha 2--Thanks for your work!
<alkisg> Also try a complete reboot to make sure there aren't hang processes around
<highvoltage> alkisg: that looks much nicer!
<highvoltage> alkisg: thanks
 * sbalneav hugs stgraber
<sbalneav> stgraber: how late were you up last night?
<sbalneav> ogra
<sbalneav> alkisg
<alkisg> Hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> the problem was, sabayon was using useradd for adding users
<sbalneav> but useradd wasn't respecting login.defs, and so was creating the sabayon user as uid 999
<sbalneav> which is what the live cd's hard-code the live id to be.
<alkisg> I saw that much, but was useradd fixed?!!
<sbalneav> No, don't think so.
<alkisg> I thought the debian utils didn't respect login.defs by design...
<alkisg> (/etc/adduser.conf)
 * ogra loks up from bootloader hacking
<ogra> oh, hi sbalneav :)
<alkisg> ogra, bootloader? Are we going to have a new syslinux version? :P :D
<ogra> alkisg, u-boot ...
<ogra> all ARM stuff
 * alkisg gets his arm dictionary...
<sbalneav> anywho, most other postinsts seem to use adduser and not useradd, so I just converted it to that.
<sbalneav> I've never changed much in the packaging, other than the deps as they've changed.
<sbalneav> so that's a bug that's been there a while.
<sbalneav> but seeing as how sabayon's been broken for 3+ years... :)
<stgraber> sbalneav: 2am or so
<alkisg> sbalneav: well since postinst is a debian thing anyway, it makes sense to use adduser... I'll resync in a few hours and test again :)
<sbalneav> stgraber: You young kids and your stamina :)
<alkisg> Hmm can some guru help here? http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m2f291da6
<alkisg> That's right after the fat client script tries to run `tasksel install ubuntu-desktop`
<alkisg> 030-fat-client: http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m21c6359a
<ogra> alkisg, isnt APT_GET_OPTS already set properly ?
<ogra> oh, you re-enable it
<ogra> nm
<alkisg> ogra, it is, should I use apt-get $APT_GET_OPTS install ubuntu-desktop instead of tasksel?
<ogra> n o, tasksel is the right way
<ogra> i wonder if you couldnt do the last step a bit more elegantly with a file in /usr/share/gconf-defaults/
<stgraber> Edubuntu 14.1 is on the mirror now
<sbalneav> so we made it in for alpha-2 even with the sabayon respin?
<ogra> sbalneav, non-official distros can even make A2 tomorrow
 * sbalneav dances with ogra maniacally
 * sbalneav give stgraber a big wet sloppy kiss
<sbalneav> \o/
 * ogra grins 
<stgraber> sbalneav: looks like we did yeah
<ogra> congrats guys !
<alkisg> ogra, about the file, that's why I put a # TODO there. The problem is the apt dying without explanations :-(
<alkisg> Congrats everyone :)
<alkisg> Can I spawn a shell with all the environment variables at that point?
<ogra> alkisg, well, "tasksel: aptitude failed (100)" ... why did it fail, the error must be either above or in a log
<ogra> the umount is only fallout
<ogra> just add a line to your plugin that does it ...
<ogra> before the tsksel runs
<ogra> then run it manually
 * alkisg looks at /opt/ltsp/i386/var/log/apt/history.log ...
<alkisg> Ugh, I can't find anything useful there, so I'll just call a `sh` at that point.
<highvoltage> stgraber: so these are the 14.1 images right? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/
<stgraber> yep
<highvoltage> it should be a quick sync at least :)
<alkisg> Damn when I spawn a shell during ltsp-build-client, and run tasksel manuall from there, everything works fine, I even get a whiptail GUI... :-/
<sbalneav> ok, I've officially (in my upstream roll) released 2.29.5
<sbalneav> or sabayon
<highvoltage> my rsync is taking way longer than expected :/
<ogra> you wanted a DVD ;)
<highvoltage> heh :D
<stgraber> sent 448.44K bytes  received 359.61M bytes  261.94K bytes/sec
<stgraber> so you need 360MB to get from 13.1 to 14.1
<highvoltage> I synced with 14.0 earlier though
<alkisg> stgraber: I tested the amd64 version and seems fine, do I need to "submit" my test results somewhere?
<highvoltage> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all
<ogra> alkisg, isotracker
<alkisg> Uh, I prolly have to test teh "Install (debian-installer LTSP)" stuff as noone did it yet
<alkisg> "Enter your Ubuntu QA username." ?
<ogra> thats where you type in your ubuntu QA username :)
<alkisg> So much for the openid launchpad stuff :)
<ogra> finally a proper avatar summary http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz268/fotoslamenza/Fotos-fds/43/photopodborka_152.jpg :)
<highvoltage> *g*
 * alkisg gives up on `tasksel install edubuntu-desktop-gnome`, I can't find any logs about the "tasksel: aptitude failed (100)" problem anywhere... :(
<highvoltage> so alternate i386 fails
<highvoltage> (with LTSP installation)
<highvoltage> it can't find the package ltsp-server-standalong
<ogra> is it in the pool dir ?
<ogra> or completely missing from the CD
<highvoltage> one moment...
<highvoltage> ogra: seems that it's not in the pool directory
<ogra> well, then its missing from the seed somehow
<highvoltage> ogra: in pool/main/l/ltsp there's an ltsp-client-builder and ltsp-server, but not ltsp-server-standalone
<ogra> at this point thats rather something for a release note though, talk to slangasek (when he gets up again)
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> and prepare some text for a note :)
<highvoltage> "Whatever you do, don't choose the LTSP option from the installer!!!!"
<ogra> heh
<stgraber> highvoltage: we shouldn't even have that LTSP install option anymore, so it's really not an issue, we should just release note it
<stgraber> we only have ltsp-server on the DVD as it's what will be needed for LTSP once it's moved to the live environment and dropped from the on-dvd archive
<stgraber> and only reason why the on-dvd archive still contains everything is because I haven't found a way to get rid of that extra 1.5GB of package ...
<nixternal> oi oi edubuntu'erz!!
<nixternal> I have had the week from hell...I have done so much work, but I couldn't tell you what the heck I did :/
<nixternal> I checked out Edubuntu docs and started to cry a little bit :(  needs a bit of work, but I don't think it needs a ton of work, considering we can leverage ubuntu-docs, though we might want to actually fork their docs and change screenshots, or something like that
<nixternal> actually, not fork them, because they have translations, maybe have edubuntu-docs install ubuntu-docs first, and then replace screenshot images...if it is at all that important, as they look the same except for color
<highvoltage> stgraber: ok
<highvoltage> nixternal: I don't think people are too picky about wallpapers, since that's the first thing most people change anyway
<highvoltage> nixternal: I guess we should have a docs day too
<stgraber> highvoltage: we did mention planning one at some point after FF
<highvoltage> stgraber: indeed, wow and it's crawling closer ever faster
<highvoltage> nixternal: I think it's just been one of those kind of weeks
<nixternal> that it has...trying to finish up a ton of stuff before FF
<nixternal> have about 10 MIRs I have yet to do :)
#edubuntu 2010-01-15
<alkisg> Good morning
<HedgeMage> hi :)
<stgraber> oh, it's already this late ? ;)
<HedgeMage> yes, sadly it is
<HedgeMage> (creeping up on midnight here)
<alkisg> stgraber: do I have 1 hour before you tag ltsp? I think that "tasksel failed because aptitude returned 100" is a file descriptor problem, and actually means "aptitude returned 100% completed", so I'm just now testing ltsp-build-client to see if it's safe to ignore it at least for now...
<stgraber> alkisg: you have a bit more than that, I did a lot of changes today in ltsp-trunk and ldm-trunk, so I'll wait until tomorrow (late morning / early afternoon) to tag + upload
<alkisg> Ah, perfect :)
<stgraber> I merged that nbd-proxy bit and implemented some initial caching for ltsp_config + some other stuff I had laying around
<alkisg> stgraber: what's the easiest way for me to test your commits?
<alkisg> I.e. to make a local ubuntu package out of the bzr branch?
<stgraber> alkisg: I have an updated ltsp in my PPA (bzr snapshot), I can update it with what's currently in trunk so you can easily test it
<stgraber> give me 2 minutes
<alkisg> Merci :)
<stgraber> sorry, don't know the greek for no problem ;)
<alkisg> :D (or if you could tell me how you do the bzr => ubuntu package thing, I can do it on my own here...)
<stgraber> I usually use mkdst (that tool we use to tag/release ltsp) to build me a new tarball, then rename it to mention it's a snapshot and include the bzr revision and make sure the version number is lower than the next upstream version
<crimsun> ok, seed time
<alkisg> Thanks, I'll put "learn how mkdst works" in my TODO list :)
<stgraber> so, for the one I'm doing, it's: ltsp_5.1.99~bzr1517.orig.tar.gz
<crimsun> (now that I've closed 76 bugs with the latest upload)
<alkisg> crimsun: hi, will we see that libsdl-pulse inclusion any time soon?
<stgraber> crimsun: that's a lot of bugs :)
<alkisg> wow, 76 bugs, yeah...
<crimsun> alkisg: that's the seed thing mentioned above
 * alkisg dances :)
<stgraber> alkisg: new snapshot build for ltsp, uploaded.
<stgraber> alkisg: I'll do one for ldm too or you'll have some issue getting to ldm
 * alkisg thinks Lucid will be the best Ubuntu version ever :)
<alkisg> stgraber: the nbd-client patch I reported? don't worry I have a local patch for it here...
<alkisg> *bug
<stgraber> alkisg: not only that, nbd-proxy makes nbd-client connect to localhost, so it's introducing a lot of other issues ;)
<alkisg> Oooh ok, waiting for your ppa upload then
<stgraber> uploaded
<stgraber> alkisg: you should have both built in an hour or so, the builders seem a bit slower now than they were this afternoon
<stgraber> alkisg: I also uploaded a new ltspfs but this one was uploaded directly to archive, not to my PPA (it's an actual release, not a snapshot)
<alkisg> Btw, here's what I'll be commiting in a few hours. It has "TODOs" in it, but I think it works better than the last version. I'll debug those in the next few days.
<alkisg> http://ltsp.pastebin.com/m20e9470
<alkisg> stgraber: ok, I'll be trying all those in the next few hours
<stgraber> are you sure your tasksel works correctly "
<stgraber> ?
<alkisg> I'm testing as we speak
<stgraber> I'd have done: chroot $ROOT "tasksel install $desktop || true"
<alkisg> Ooops
<alkisg> dammit
<stgraber> also, AFAIK that APT_GET_OPTS isn't actually part of apt's environment, it's something we usually append to an apt-get command and I don't see one in your script, not sure it's actually doing anything ;)
<alkisg> I was fiddling with tty handling a while ago, and I saw tasksel's gui (whiptail) going to 100%, and right after that "aptitude failed (100)"
<alkisg> So I'm beginning to think it's a descriptor/return value interpretation problem
<stgraber> and IIRC I actually have a plugin writting a file in /etc/apt/conf.d/ to do the same as --no-install-recommends, so you may want to get rid of it too
<alkisg> APT_GET_OPTS is used later on to write the "recommends" stuff to apt.conf.d
<alkisg> So I remove "recommends" to prevent it from being written to apt.conf.d
<stgraber> oh, interesting, I forgot I actually checked for that variable before writting apt.conf.d ;)
<alkisg> :)
<stgraber> btw, that same chroot fix also applies to the last chroot call
<stgraber> the || true should be in the chrooted command, not outside
<alkisg> It's not really useful in the script, it's only useful for updates later on
<alkisg> Does it make any difference?
<stgraber> chroot $ROOT "gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --set --type list --list-type string /apps/panel/global/disabled_applets \"[OAFIID:GNOME_FastUserSwitchApplet,OAFIID:GNOME_IndicatorApplet]\" || true"
<stgraber> well, with: "chroot $ROOT something || true", if $ROOT doesn't exist or chroot isn't installed (for some unlikely examples), it won't complain
<alkisg> In any case I'll try to change that to a gconf file, and put it in the correct dir
<stgraber> whereas with 'chroot $ROOT "something || true"', you'll still get the most important errors but ignore the return code of the command called inside it
<stgraber> for your debconf issue, it's actually quite simple to workaround I guess
<alkisg> Well sure but it'd be weird for chroot to return an error there, if it was working in all the lines above
 * alkisg is all ears... :)
<stgraber> we're using the Passthrough backend which uses that fd that you are getting error for to report status to the debian-installer (at least it was the idea)
<stgraber> you could set it to NonInterractive for the fat client part and that won't use any fd
<alkisg> :)
<alkisg> stgraber: finished succesfully - but it was unable to unmount /proc, and that got me a lot of squashfs compression errors (file in use etc)
<alkisg> I also got that when I tried the version of the script that's currently in bzr
<stgraber> OLD_DEBIAN_FRONTEND=$DEBIAN_FRONTEND
<stgraber> DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive
<stgraber> tasksel blah
<alkisg> Thanks, got it :)
<stgraber> DEBIAN_FRONTEND=$OLD_DEBIAN_FRONTEND
<alkisg> Can I force umount -l /proc there temporarily, until I properly debug it in the next days?
<stgraber> alkisg: check for running process inside the chroot
<stgraber> alkisg: something must have start a process during the installation of some package and that's what blocking /proc
<stgraber> if you kill that process, you'll be able to unmount /proc
<alkisg> I think `sudo lsof /opt/ltsp/i386/proc` is giving me the server's processes... !!!
<stgraber> sure
<alkisg> How else would I check to see what's running inside the chroot?
<stgraber>  /proc and /opt/ltps/i386/proc are exactly the same thing ;)
<stgraber> ps aux and look at the start time
<stgraber> it's usually the easiest
<alkisg> Ah. /me feels silly :)
<alkisg> notify-osd it is
<alkisg> Hmm, no, looking....
<alkisg> I actually don't have any such process running. Maybe it's some daemon that's being reused from some program in the chroot?
<stgraber> it shouldn't anyway, you can do a "umount -l" on it, it'll solve your squashfs issue
<alkisg> OK, so temporarily I'm going to umount -l && remount it, with a # TODO to properly solve it later
<stgraber> going for some sleep, last night was really short due to that livedvd issue ;) see you all in 7-8 hours.
<alkisg> goodnight :)
<alkisg> !info gimp lucid
<ubottu> gimp (source: gimp): The GNU Image Manipulation Program. In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.7-1.1ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 4285 kB, installed size 12480 kB
<ma3x> hello
<ma3x> i installed ubuntu and edubuntu as extra. can i make the distro edubuntu or at least how can ichange the splash screen to edubuntu
<ma3x> helloooooo
<highvoltage> stgraber: good morning to you
<highvoltage> stgraber: did yesterday's image become the alpha 2 or do I need to do another sync?
<alkisg> highvoltage: I'm having problems to find a *correct* way to prevent gdm from being installed while keeping everything else in place. Is it a problem if it gets installed instead, but of course while keeping ldm as the default display manager?
<alkisg> (i.e. `echo "/usr/sbin/ldm" > $ROOT/etc/X11/default-display-manager` before installing ubuntu-desktop)
<stgraber> highvoltage: it became the alpha-2
<highvoltage> alkisg: I wonder whether ldm could get a Provides field so that it provides GDM and KDM (that should solve it on Kubuntu too then, if it's installed before the desktop main metapackage)
<alkisg> highvoltage: I don't think it's a bad idea to make ldm able to work beside gdm
<highvoltage> stgraber: yay!
<alkisg> It could also be used in the future in standalone workstations
<stgraber> alkisg: I suspect your LTSP boot didn't work, right ?
<alkisg> E.g. I setup ubuntu normally, then install ldm, and I have something like a fat client but with centralized administration...
<stgraber> alkisg: I just found this bug in my current package: http://pastebin.com/f7b8424bd
<alkisg> stgraber: it works but only when I manually install the needed packages
<alkisg> Ah, ok, I used IPAPPEND 3 to bypass this
<alkisg> Thanks
<alkisg> highvoltage: I think with a small patch in ltsp_config, the client should be able to boot even with gdm installed
<alkisg> And gdm won't start if it sees '/usr/sbin/ldm' in /etc/X11/default-display-manager
 * alkisg tries all these...
<alkisg> highvoltage: Yup, with a 2 lines-patch in ltsp_config, now ldm works fine for me with gdm also installed in the chroot
<alkisg> highvoltage: could you tell me about the other "blacklisted" packages in your fat client script?
<alkisg> (I mean, why they were blacklisted?)
<alkisg> Supposedly, the correct way to install ubuntu-desktop is with `tasksel install ubuntu-desktop`. I tried that, but I ended up with a chroot without e.g. lspci, which broke many xorg scripts.
<alkisg> Should I try `tasksel install ubuntu-desktop` AND apt-get install ubuntu-standard?
<alkisg> Or should I just do `apt-get install ubuntu-desktop` and get on with it? :)
<sbalneav> Morning all
<stgraber> hey sbalneav
<stgraber> alkisg: that's fixed in the new package, I depend on lspci
<stgraber> alkisg: the reason why it didn't work is that it was dropped from ubuntu-minimal and so was dropped from the chroot
<alkisg> Ah, ok
<alkisg> stgraber: I'm trying to do this: apt-get install ubuntu-standard ubuntu-desktop
<alkisg> (or any other user defined desktop)
<alkisg> I.e. I assume that fat == those packages only...
<alkisg> And I only left those in the blacklisted packages: etwork-manager modemmanager ubufox apport jockey-common
<mhall119|work> what is ldm?
<alkisg> The LTSP display manager
<sbalneav> mhall119|work: The bit that manages the login process for thin clients
<mhall119|work> ah, cool
<mhall119|work> thought it was maybe an lxde display manager
<mhall119|work> highvoltage: I've been reading about how to customize the new GDM and XSplash
<mhall119|work> it doesn't look too hard, but it's not nearly an flexible as the old GDM and USplash
<alkisg> ...almost ...there :)
<alkisg> stgraber: I commited the modified script, could you ping me when you upload a new ltsp version to Ubuntu, so that I can test again from scratch?
<stgraber> alkisg: ok
<alkisg> ty
<sbalneav> alkisg: Two months ago you couldn't even spell "Upstream Free Software Developer", and today you is one :)
<sbalneav> \o/ for alkisg
<alkisg> And who was the one that almost "pushed" me upstream? Thanks to sbalneav!!! :)
<alkisg> sbalneav: but really, I've been a floss developer for decades. Just in assembly/Delphi, away from Linux :)
<sbalneav> Well, I think being made a member of upstream is, if nothing else, a recognition of skill, and dedication.
<sbalneav> One of the things I've always loved about Free Software is, it's one of the true meritocracies in the world.
<sbalneav> You were making a significant contribution.
<sbalneav> You *should* be recognized.
<alkisg> Yup, being part of a good upstream project is a new experience for me, and a very good one
<alkisg> Thank you guys for accepting me :)
 * alkisg has to leave the keyboard again because his daughter needs to play ikariam :P :D
<stgraber> alkisg: I have two guys here debugging an issue with nbd-proxy, I expect to tag + upload once it's fixed.
<alkisg> stgraber: np, thanks, what's nbd-proxy all about? what will it solve?
<alkisg> Will clients need more ram for it?
<stgraber> no they won't
<stgraber> it's just something that makes sure you'll never get any squashfs or input/output error
<alkisg> Cool :)
<stgraber> it's handling the NBD reconnect in place of the current nbd kernel module and does a lot more checks
<stgraber> I actually am testing it by doing a checksum of all files in the chroot while killing the server once every second ;)
<alkisg> Wow!!!
<alkisg> Sounds rock solid indeed :)
<stgraber> haven't seen any dataloss or corruption yet but I sometimes have a process hanging and forcing me to reboot
<stgraber> so that's what's being fixed now
<stgraber> (something about sending a byte too much when reconnecting, leading to squashfs crashing ;))
<alkisg> So is that also included in the initramfs, completely replacing the kernel module?
<mgariepy> sbalneav, ping
<alkisg> sync -zthhP rsync://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/10.04/alpha-2/lucid-dvd-amd64.iso ./lucid-dvd-amd64.iso
<alkisg> @ERROR: Unknown module 'edubuntu'
<alkisg> rsync error: error starting client-server protocol (code 5) at main.c(1521) [receiver=3.0.6]
<alkisg> How can I rsync to see if what I have is == alpha 2?
<alkisg> Hmmm pitivi recommends hal...
#edubuntu 2010-01-16
<sbalneav_> Evening all
<mhall119> evening sbalneav_
<HedgeMage> Hi, sbalneav_ and mhall119
<mhall119> hi HedgeMage
 * Ahmuck-Sr running ubuntu lucid alpha2
<Ahmuck-Sr> Business process reengineering must be done first and then technology can be used as a tool to make it work.  Whenever technology leads efforts, the projects have failed.
<Ahmuck-Sr> on whitehouse.gov - it's interesting, this is essentially what is happening in the edubuntu council, imho, reengineerer the process first and then let the tech follow
<sbalneav_> Ahmuck-Sr: K, so, what's the process?
 * sbalneav_ looks at Ahmuck-Sr 
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Are you saying the council's leading efforts?
<HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Sr: I think that the technology stuff the whitehouse is trying to draw attention to has very little to do with technology.  It's not a very good example, as there are other political forces driving the whole thing.
 * sbalneav is unsure what Ahmuck-Sr's trying to say.
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: I *think* he's trying to make a point that people should design tech tools around the way they do things, not the other way around.  However, that's not what the White House is talking about.
<sbalneav> But I'm unsure of whether he's saying the edubuntu council is doing that, OR, if he's saying the edubuntu council's dealing with nothing but tech, and our project will fail.
<Ahmuck-Sr> purpose, edubuntu is beggining to find its purpose.  though i still believe the emporer has no clothes
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: ok, so, enlighten us: why does the emporer have no clothes?
<Ahmuck-Sr> what is edubuntu?
<Ahmuck-Sr> let me re-phrase that
<Ahmuck-Sr> can i download ubuntu and just add programs on with aptitude?
<sbalneav> Yes
<sbalneav> Of course.
<Ahmuck-Sr> so, what is it in edubuntu that sets it apart from a standard download and a aptitude update?
<sbalneav> The same thing that sets debian-edu apart from just downloading debian and just using apt to install the programs
<Ahmuck-Sr> theme's?
<sbalneav> or same thing that sets K12 Fedora apart from just downloading fedora and just using yum to install the programs
<sbalneav> No
<sbalneav> People
<Ahmuck-Sr> different people, same thing
<sbalneav> People who are interested in education, and are helping to fix bugs in educational programs, and put things together in a way that is useful to educators
<Ahmuck-Sr> i guess my point is, edubuntu has the opportunity to provide real world tools to teachers, classrooms, small school admins, etc. beyond what is currently avaiable
<Ahmuck-Sr> yes, similar to what you said
<sbalneav> Fantastic
<Ahmuck-Sr> which is beyond a repackaged cd/dvd with programs on it
<sbalneav> So, what are these things that are beyond what is currently available?
<Ahmuck-Sr> fostering discussions on what areas are missing etc
<Ahmuck-Sr> anywho, my orginal point is, it appears that edubuntu council is begginging to pull things togather
<sbalneav> Well, it's all well and good to say "edubuntu has the opportunity to provide real world tools to teachers, classrooms, small school admins, etc. beyond what is  currently avaiable
<sbalneav> But without:
<Ahmuck-Sr> ubuntu is a packaged distro with gnome
<Ahmuck-Sr> kubuntu is a packaged distro with kde
<Ahmuck-Sr> etc. etc.
<sbalneav> edubuntu is a packaged distro with education apps
<Ahmuck-Sr> it's ubuntu with edu apps
<sbalneav> ubuntu's just debian with fixed
<sbalneav> ubuntu's just debian with fixes
<sbalneav> debian's just a kernel + GNU apps
<Ahmuck-Sr> heh, looked at that already
<Ahmuck-Sr> we'll call ubuntu "enhanced debian" rather than just "fixed debian" :)
<sbalneav> That's just semantics
<sbalneav> My point is, if someone wants something "beyond" what we currently provide, then we need specs on those things.
<Ahmuck-Sr> i've been looking at webdav, caldav, and groupdav.  searching google for info brings up a lot of information "not the same" on how to install on ubuntu
<sbalneav> i.e. What the tool is, what function you want it to provide, use cases, screen mockups, etc.
<Ahmuck-Sr> been working on finding turnkey gpl stuff that is out there to work with moodle-like software as well as schooltool
<Ahmuck-Sr> but it would be dreamy to select that from the start
<sbalneav> There is none, simply because Linux is all about choice.  There is no "one right way" to install something
<Ahmuck-Sr> i agree, however choices are made.  for example, ubuntu is not filled with kde stuff
<Ahmuck-Sr> and vice versa
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: sure there is... whatever way HedgeMage is in the mood for at the moment ;)
<Ahmuck-Sr> :p
<sbalneav> And thats where people and edubuntu come in
<sbalneav> We make some choices
<sbalneav> package it all together
<sbalneav> make it interoperate
<sbalneav> fix any bugs
<sbalneav> and hold up a DVD image and go "tah dah!"
<Ahmuck-Sr> i'll keep working on my side
<Ahmuck-Sr> btw, how's the wiki coming along?
<HedgeMage> Seriously, though, Ahmuck-Sr, what would you have Edubuntu focus on if not packaging an Ubuntu derivative that provides a good first step into edu software?
<sbalneav> Dunno, wiki's not my focus.  I try to focus on providing tools that work, fixing bugs, etc.
<Ahmuck-Sr> i've found that if you set a course for someone, they will make their own way if they decide they want something different, but sometimes showing them a path works better than giving them many paths.  confusion starts at the fork in the road.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr, so, why didn't you run for council?
<Ahmuck-Sr> HedgeMage: i don't download the DVD because it's bandwidth intensive
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: isn't eh council full?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: There was an election!  Why didn't you put your name forward?
<Ahmuck-Sr> HedgeMage: i download the cd, and then add alacarte with what appears to work best with my community
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: got lost in the shuffle of stuff done during the day
<Ahmuck-Sr> :(
<sbalneav> It only ran for like, a month
<Ahmuck-Sr> which, btw, is there a ical for edubuntu that has reminders?
<Ahmuck-Sr> meeting reminders, etc.
<Ahmuck-Sr> like a caldav server?
<sbalneav> That you can install, or is there a public one?
<sbalneav> There's the fridge
<sbalneav> And of course almost everything's usually announced on the mailing list.
<Ahmuck-Sr> a public one?
<sbalneav> Yes of course!  edubuntu-users
<sbalneav> and edubuntu-devel's public too!
<Ahmuck-Sr> hrm, i'll try to find the ical link
<sbalneav> And if you have something you'd like to propose as an idea, all you have to do is write a blueprint on it, and post the link to it in edubuntu-users or -devel, we'd be more than happy to look at it.
<sbalneav> I have no idea if ical's supported or not.
<sbalneav> But currently, nobody's coming to us with ideas like "Edubuntu needs an <x> Program"
<sbalneav> They're coming to us with with "We need sabayon to be fixed so that we can manage our gnome desktops"
<sbalneav> etc.
 * Ahmuck-Sr trottles off to work on groupware/moodle/schooltool intergration tutorial
<sbalneav> The whole move to the dvd was done because people wanted it.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: Gonna post it on our wiki?
<Ahmuck-Sr> no. i'm building a separate wiki.  your welcome to copy it
<sbalneav> Well, see, that's the problem
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: Edubuntu needs a program that makes me tea whenever I'm coding :P
<Ahmuck-Sr> sorta.  ubuntu's system is complex
<Ahmuck-Sr> HedgeMage: tea timer
<HedgeMage> heh
<sbalneav> You've just stated you'd like to see more of this thing under Edubuntu, but then, if you're going to do something, you're not doing under the umbella of Edubuntu
<Ahmuck-Sr> i stated i was glad i was starting to see more of it happening in edubunt
<sbalneav> But edubuntu isn't someone else...
<sbalneav> it's you
<Ahmuck-Sr> when i started with ibm dos 5.x the manual was 3 inches thick
<sbalneav> I'm no more "edubuntu" than you are
<Ahmuck-Sr> freebsd is the same way
<sbalneav> right, and the LTSP manual's 80 pages
<sbalneav> And there's several Ubuntu books that have been written
<Ahmuck-Sr> sbalneav: ok ok, i hear you
 * Ahmuck-Sr trottles off again
<HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Sr: I tell you what, raise enough money that I can afford to take six months off of work and write.  I'll put my 11 or so years of experience with free software in education into a book.  I'll even release it under the Creative Commons.
<sbalneav> See, I'm not sure what's expected here.  For better or worse, there's 6 or 7 people actively working on edubuntu.
<HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Sr: What I mean to say is, if you want something done, complaining isn't the way to do it.  Start an initiative.  Do it (or pay someone to do it) yourself.
<Ahmuck-Sr> HedgeMage: already doing that
<Ahmuck-Sr> i've put one individual on staff and were working togather
<Ahmuck-Sr> i'm looking at another
<sbalneav> But on what?  Edubuntu?
<Ahmuck-Sr> i tend to put my money where my mouth is ...
<sbalneav> Well, we're here, all the time.  And I don't think we've ever turned away a good idea.  If you have one, let us know.
<HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Sr: You just seem to have negative things to say, but no concrete "this should be happening and this is how I'm helping it happen"  Whatever you are disappointed in, I don't think that either sbalneav or I really get what it is.
<Ahmuck-Sr> *sigh*
<Ahmuck-Sr> what i posted was not to be negative.  i'll quit chatting.
<sbalneav> Not at all, I'm just trying to understand what it is you feel isn't being done.
<sbalneav> If there's something more that should be done, I'm happy to talk about it.
<sbalneav> and if it's in my power to do it, I'm happy to help.
<HedgeMage> Ahmuck-Sr: My only frustration is that you aren't being specific.  It's hard to act on "the emporer has no clothes" as that could apply to a thousand points.  We *want* feedback and input and involvement, including yours, we just have to understand it to address it. :o
<sbalneav> Huh!
<sbalneav> Screen hung
<sbalneav> that's bad.
 * HedgeMage pokes screen
<HedgeMage> sbalneav: I thought screens were there to keep the bugs from flying in :P
<sbalneav> Server didn't die, I logged in via the thin client and killed Xorg
<sbalneav> prolly some driver issue.
<sbalneav> Holy crumb
<sbalneav> the new pulse update fixes Mucho Bugeros
<stgraber> yeah, crimsun closed half of Launchpad's bugs last night ;)
 * stgraber just remembered he should update his laptop to get the new pulse, doing so now.
<Ahmuck-Sr> available for karamic?
<crimsun> stgraber: the actual fixed one probably won't be published for another hour
<crimsun> last night's upload was, unfortunately, bunk :/
<crimsun> I'll do the seeds this evening for libsdl1.2debian-foo
<crimsun> it's in the queue after the pulse SRU
<sbalneav> Ahmuck-Sr: The update came down for lucid
<sbalneav> crimsun: Upstream doing lots of work?
<sbalneav> I popped into #pulseaudio a while ago, they seemed like busy little beavers in there
<sbalneav> yawn, been a loooong week.  Many bugs fixed, new upstream sabayon released, started picking into the handbook again.
<sbalneav> I think I deserve an early night.
<sbalneav> Someone can just dock my pay :)
<HedgeMage> Goodnight, sbalneav
<HedgeMage> hi, alkisg
<HedgeMage> What's up?
<alkisg> Good morning!
<alkisg> All ok, how are you?
<HedgeMage> Not bad.  I just had a good snack and am contemplating sleep.
<HedgeMage> I was going to be nice and wait up until my housemate got home, but it's almost midnight and my niceness (and awakeness) is waning :P
<crimsun> sbalneav: yeah, lots of patches submitted & merged
<alkisg> HedgeMage: Oooh sleeping is not easy for me when my mate's missing :D
<HedgeMage> lol
<alkisg> Nah, I sleep like a log
<HedgeMage> alkisg: Not a significant other, just the person I share a house with.
<alkisg> :)
 * HedgeMage notes that she is currently unattached, but living in three states in as many years can do that.
<alkisg> Well usually the best work is done before any commitments start... later on there's not much time left to do any serious work ;)
<HedgeMage> hehe :)
 * alkisg has 3 kids so is unable to sit on his PC for 1 hour straight without waking up for something
<HedgeMage> I have one munchkin, but he does keep me quite distracted all by himself :P
<alkisg> !info apt-utils lucid
<ubottu> apt-utils (source: apt): APT utility programs. In component main, is important. Version 0.7.25ubuntu2 (lucid), package size 226 kB, installed size 520 kB
<Damianos> Hello?
<alkisg> Hello
<sbalneav> Morning alkisg
<alkisg> Now with upstart in Ubuntu, do we need to divert $CHROOT/sbin/start|stop|status etc, like we do with start-stop-daemon?
<alkisg> Hi sbalneav
<sbalneav> alkisg: I'd expect so.
<alkisg> sbalneav: hmmm then maybe that's why I'm getting a problem with $CHROOT/proc being in use, maybe acpid actually starts in the chroot
<alkisg> sbalneav: should I try to come up with a patch?
<alkisg> Or will the big guns handle it? :D
<sbalneav> Probably, isn't there a DONT_RUN_DAEMONS variable you're suppost to define?
<sbalneav> gimme a sec, I'm just helping this fellow in #ltsp
<alkisg> LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false? yes, but that only works for start-stop-daemon.
<alkisg> Sure
<sbalneav> alkisg: ah, ok, so yeah, we'll need something the same for upstart then.
<alkisg> Right. OK, I'll propose a patch tomorrow.
<sbalneav> Was ltsp on the 9.10 dvd?  I don't think so
<sbalneav> but I tend not to install it like most people do.
<sbalneav> so I'm not sure.
 * alkisg also uses the alternate cd... :-/
<alkisg> If the kid theme is ditched in Lucid, I'll use edubuntu instead :D
<sbalneav> kid theme?  Gartoon?
<alkisg> It's not only the icons... it's also the colors etc
<alkisg> Is all that Gartoon? I don't know...
<sbalneav> Which, the red colour for the windows?  I rather like the red.  Better than brown, anyway :)
<sbalneav> Just change your theme
<alkisg> sbalneav: well, do you *use* it? I tried to use it, but my eyes thought otherwise...
<sbalneav> Yeah!
<sbalneav> I actually LIKE gartoon
<alkisg> It's not easy to change the theme for all users and PCs in a classroom
<sbalneav> It's just a gconf key
<sbalneav> And I know a certain....
<sbalneav> project
<alkisg> Hmmm :)
<sbalneav> ... that would allow you to do that quite easily (*cough* sabayon *cough*)
<alkisg> Right now I do have edubuntu Lucid with the Jaunty's Human theme :)
<sbalneav> I *think* human's on there anyway
<sbalneav> I don't think edubuntu removes the human theme, it just adds the edubuntu theme and makes it default
<sbalneav> one sec...
<alkisg> Yup, that's how I use it now
<sbalneav> yeah, human and human clearlooks are both installed by default
<alkisg> I just changed the theme, I didn't remove the old one or installed any new ones..
<Ahmuck> [10:49] <sbalneav> but I tend not to install it like most people do.
<Ahmuck> [10:49] <sbalneav> so I'm not sure.
<Ahmuck> [10:49] * alkisg also uses the alternate cd... :-/
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Yes?
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I have to develop LTSP, and I'm looking for other things.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: There are other testers out there that can test other methods.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I do Edubuntu in my spare time, evenings and weekends.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I can't do everything.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: I'm currently:  Fixing bugs in educational programs, working on the handbook, an upstream LTSP developer, an upstream GNOME developer on Sabayon, working on the next way we'll do things within LTSP, etc.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: If you veiled point is that I *SHOULD* be doing things, like everyone else, my response would be: I'm already doing all that I can.  I probably spend upwards of 30 hours a week working on Free Software projects.  Someone ELSE will have to step forward.
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: And I think I can speak for the other Edubuntu members when I say: I'm not unique.  Most of us on this project are working as hard as we can.
<stgraber> sbalneav: We had LTSP on the Edubuntu DVD in 9.10 (text installer)
<sbalneav> stgraber: I don't tend to install it from the installer.  I just generally tend to do a regular install, then install ltsp after the fact, with apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone
<sbalneav> and then ltsp-build-client, etc.
<stgraber> yeah, my only use of the installer is for ISO testing, usually I have a VM that only hosts the chroots, one for each ltsp-cluster component and several with a desktop install as application servers
<highvoltage> hey stgraber and sbalneav!
<stgraber> hi highvoltage
 * highvoltage has been plagued by harsh headaches all day
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, hi there :)
<sbalneav> Hello highvoltage, dhillon-v10
<highvoltage> hi dhillon-v10
<dhillon-v10> sbalneav, hi :)
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, what's up
<crimsun> heads-up: I've explicitly seeded libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio in ubuntu.lucid's desktop
<sbalneav> crimsun: cool
<crimsun> this closes bug 203158
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 203158 in pulseaudio "libsdl1.2debian-pulseaudio must be installed as default by libsdl1.2debian" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203158
<sbalneav> crimsun: alkisg will be pleased at that one.
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: not much today, just taking pain pills and trying to sleep, I think I'll probably doze off in a few mins
<highvoltage> dhillon-v10: how's the website stuff coming along?
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, slow but pretty good, when HedgeMage comes online I'll ask about enabling some modules
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: what do you want to work on first? :)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, hi there, how's it going, I'll pick anything it doesn't really matter
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10:
<HedgeMage> oops
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, ?
<HedgeMage> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bug/504562 and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/edubuntu-website/+bug/504561 are very easy starting places.
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 504562 in edubuntu-website "Enable and configure OpenID module" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<HedgeMage> OpenID doesn't require any real configuration, just enabling.  The other one is contact module -- enable it, write a nice message, and think of a couple of categories (press inquiries, web site bugs, miscellaneous might be good) then figure out who should get those emails :o
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: Sound good?
<stgraber> HedgeMage: I guess the idea behind the openid module was to integrate with Launchpad and with LP teams. In this case it needs a bit of configuration (and it's not the stock drupal openid module)
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, sure, but one question, don't I need admin right to see the drupal interface and enable those modules
<HedgeMage> stgraber: Integrate with LP how?  I really don't know Launchpad, this is the first I've used it in about three years.
<stgraber> HedgeMage: LP is an openid provider and they developped two Drupal modules to use it for login and use LP teams with Drupal ACLs
<HedgeMage> brb
<HedgeMage> sorry about that, stgraber -- had to pull cookies out and put additional ones in to bake
<HedgeMage> stgraber: Where would I get a look at those?
<HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage,  don't I need admin right to see the drupal interface and enable those modules
<HedgeMage> dhillon-v10: oops, thought I already gave it to you... pm me and I'll give you credentials
<dhillon-v10> highvoltage, can you pm me your email, I need to add you as a contact on the website
<stgraber> HedgeMage: https://code.launchpad.net/drupal-launchpad
 * stgraber is glad to be able to read that code and use it without requiring a NDA anymore ;)
<stgraber> It was actually implemented by Canonical after I asked for the Ubuntu QA websites and Brainstorm (both Drupal 5.x) to use LP authentication (though it hasn't been turned on yet as we need to migrate over 20000 users) but was restricted to a limited group of people under NDA for a year or so (at this point, Launchpad API and OpenID capability weren't public AFAIK, that very likely was the reason).
<stgraber> HedgeMage: please note that if we want to receive the e-mail address as part of the LP authentication, we need to ask the Launchpad developers to whitelist our website. Otherwise we only get the username.
#edubuntu 2010-01-17
<stgraber> HedgeMage: getting whitelisted can be done by opening a ticket at: https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion if we don't get it done quick enough, feel free to poke me and I'll nag the right people ;)
<alkisg> stgraber: I'm thinking of proposing a patch for 000-daemon-handling to also handle initctl of the upstart package, because I think it's the new acpid script that's using $ROOT/proc at the end of ltsp-build-client... is that OK?
<alkisg> (Hi all, btw :))
<alkisg> Debian is also (slowly) switching to upstart, so that script would be again common, right?
<stgraber> alkisg: yeah, you'll probably need to verwrite initctl, start, stop, restart and status (assuming all these aren't simple symlink to initctl)
<alkisg> symlinks, so initctl should be enough
<stgraber> ok, they are symlinks to initctl ;)
<stgraber> right, sounds good
<alkisg> But it won't have the same name, so I'll have to call it with initctl.real $action "$@"
<alkisg> OK, will do that tomorrow, thanks
<alkisg> *tommorow
<stgraber> well, I'm wondering why we actually have to overwrite the binary ...
<HedgeMage> stgraber: thanks, I'll file it away and take a look as soon as I can.
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ initctl() { echo "It's not really initctl"; }
<stgraber> stgraber@castiana:~$ initctl blah
<stgraber> It's not really initctl
<stgraber> alkisg: ^
<alkisg> stgraber: what if some C program tries to execute /sbin/initctl?
<alkisg> (or shell program, with an absolut path /sbin/initctl...)
<stgraber> alkisg: they shouldn't, upstart uses dbus for communication and library exists for C programs, initctl is only there for shell scripts.
<stgraber> yeah, calling with the full path is the only case where doing shell function overwrite won't work
<alkisg> Oooops so if someone uses dbus to start acpid, we can't block it?
<stgraber> but I don't know if we have any scripts doing that
<stgraber> alkisg: indeed
<alkisg> So we probably *need* umount -l to be safe... :-/
<alkisg> ...or at the very least, to exclude /proc from the squashfs line
<stgraber> alkisg: I did a quick check, on my laptop I don't have any software that's calling start/stop/restart or start-stop-daemon with a full path
<stgraber> alkisg: well, then the issue is that we are actually starting process inside the chroot that should never have started
<alkisg> Well, if they're started from a postinst script, what else can we do?
<stgraber> alkisg: so ideally we should have: function overwrite for start/stop/restart/start-stop-daemon + kill all process started from within the chroot + umount -l
<stgraber> then we'd be safe
<alkisg> stgraber: I think dpkg-divert is a little safer, because it also helps *after* the ltsp-build-client script, i.e. when the user wants to update his chroot
<alkisg> export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false, chroot, update etc
<alkisg> (but I'd prefer it if LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS was "autodetected", so that it worked automagically...)
<stgraber> alkisg: right, though I'd be very very careful with initctl as I'd suspect it gets copied to the initrd and so you may end up with a non booting thin client
<alkisg> Ooops :(
<stgraber> it's one thing to override a Debian helper software (start-stop-daemon), it's another to overwrite some part of init ;)
 * alkisg thinks it would be safer if he left this for stgraber, and just did the umount -l / squashfs etc stuff :D
<stgraber> root@ltsp-root01:~# ls -l /proc/[0-9]*/exe | grep "/opt/ltsp/" | awk '{print $8}' | cut -d / -f3
<stgraber> replacing /opt/ltsp by $CHROOT
<stgraber> that'll list you all remaining process running from the chroot, you can then kill them and /proc will unmount just fine
<stgraber> that's probably the easiest until upstart starts causing us more issues
<stgraber> ls -l /proc/[0-9]*/exe | grep $CHROOT | awk '{print $8}' | cut -d / -f3 | xargs kill -9
 * alkisg is thinking where that would fit best...
<stgraber> ls -l /proc/[0-9]*/exe | grep $CHROOT | awk '{print $8}' | cut -d / -f3 | xargs kill -9 2>/dev/zero || true
<stgraber> actually ;)
<alkisg> Right now, and excluding the fat client script, ltsp-update-image is what unmounts $ROOT/proc first
<stgraber> as if we don't have any process to kill we don't want ltsp-build-client to fail
<stgraber> ok, ltsp-update-image would make sense
<stgraber> as you also want all process to be killed before compressing an updated chroot
<alkisg> But then again, ltsp-update-image could be modified to not bother with $ROOT/proc at all, and just exclude that directory from the squashfs image
<stgraber> yeah but usually you don't want a second cron running on your system ;)
<alkisg> Uhm care to clarify that?
<alkisg> I mean for ltsp-update-image to pass an "exclude /proc" param to squashfs
<stgraber> if you update your chroot and get a cron update which uses upstart, it'll update cron inside the chroot and start it
<stgraber> so if you do a ps aux, you'll see two cron running
<stgraber> one inside the chroot, one outside
<stgraber> so even if you ignore /proc when doing the squashfs, you still end up with two cron running on your server
<stgraber> which can't be good ;)
<stgraber> umount -l and mksquashfs -e only workaround the fact that you have some process running that shouldn't be running
<alkisg> Well, that problem would also be faced by someone who doesn't use nbd/ltsp-update-image
<stgraber> so that fixes the issue of compressing the squashfs but not the fact that you have some process running from within the chroot and that should never happen
<stgraber> indeed and we won't be able to do much for them
<stgraber> what we can do is call that command line once at the end of ltsp-build-client and in ltsp-update-image
<alkisg> "ltsp-enter-chroot" "ltsp-exit-chroot" commands would be helpful :D
<stgraber> so for nbd users that will be working perfectly and for NFS users, that'll be fine during the chroot build process but they'll need to be careful when updating
<alkisg> OK, I'll try to put that in ltsp-update-image
<alkisg> I'll also try to bypass the daemon starting by defining an initctl in the fat client script
<alkisg> Thanks man :)
<stgraber> ok, if you use the shell hack, remember that you'll need to also define start, stop and restart
<stgraber> even if they are symlinks
<alkisg> OK, I'll try them and see if they work
<sbalneav> evening all
<stgraber> evening sbalneav
<sbalneav> Hmmm, new pulseaudio seems flaky
<sbalneav> At least, I think it's pulse.
<stgraber> volume mixer was a bit broken here and video playback got a bit laggy afterwards (as if audio couldn't catch up with video and mplayer would drop frames to sync)
<stgraber> so I reverted to the previous version for now
<sbalneav> When I play a game under Wine, pulse disappears entirely
<sbalneav> it's still running, but only shows the dummy device.
<Ahmuck> thank goodness pulse is getting tested ...
<sbalneav> Ahmuck: Anything else you'd like tested?
<Ahmuck> i deserved that
<sbalneav> The sniping's getting a little annoying, quite frankly.
<sbalneav> If you've got a complaint, I wish you'd make it plain.
<sbalneav> So we can deal with it, and move on.
<Ahmuck> so there is a pulse issue in edubuntu?
<sbalneav> There's a pulse issue, period.
<Ahmuck> nm
<sbalneav> Pulse is a great peice of software, but like all peices of software, it has bugs.
<Ahmuck> sorry, i need a break for a while
<sbalneav> You know, Ahmuck's passive-agressive baloney's really getting to be a nuisance.
<sbalneav> If he has a complaint about something, I sure wish he'd just make the complaint, we could deal with the complaint, and move on.
<sbalneav> Instead, he just makes vague hints and sarcastic remarks.
<stgraber> yeah ... it's getting boring
<CarlitoI3rigante> is anyone live?
 * CarlitoI3rigante shout for a live person
<dhillon-v10> CarlitoI3rigante, that's a tough question ;)
<sbalneav> CarlitoI3rigante: Hello
<HedgeMage> I'm alive.  Awake is debatable, but I'm definitely alive.
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, hi there :) I thought you were going to sleep :P
<HedgeMage> Yeah, that didn't happen...well, sort of...I dozed off cuddling in front of a movie with LF, almost ruined dinner, rescued dinner, ate dinner, played with a treasure I found while unpacking, and now can't sleep.
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, nice :)
<HedgeMage> heh
<HedgeMage> On the up side, there's something incredibly relaxing about typing on a good manual typewriter.
<HedgeMage> I love computers, but they can't come close to that sound and feel.
 * HedgeMage gets all nostalgic and makes people think she's crazy.
<dhillon-v10> HedgeMage, gotta go, bye and good night :)
<HedgeMage> Good night
<HedgeMage> oops, too late
<crimsun> sbalneav: which version of pulseaudio are you using?
<crimsun> sbalneav: the fixed one is 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-24-gfa64-0ubuntu1
<sbalneav> 1:0.9.22~0.9.21+stable-queue-24-gfa64-0ubuntu1
<sbalneav> crimsun: ^^^
<crimsun> sbalneav: what sort of behaviour?
<crimsun> sbalneav: also, a verbose PA log might help debug (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio/Log)
<sbalneav> Well, I've got an old windows game I like to play from time to time (homeworld), and after I play it, pulse kind of... stops responding.
<sbalneav> crimsun: Ah, thanks, I'll maybe produce a log.
<crimsun> sbalneav: so this is using Wine /without/ Neil's Winepulse ppa, I presume
<sbalneav> Yes.
<crimsun> sbalneav: and otherwise all completely current 10.04?
<sbalneav> yup.
<sbalneav> I updated an hour or so.
<crimsun> yes, a verbose log would be helpful
<sbalneav> Okiedokie, I'll produce one tomorrow.
<crimsun> thanks
<sbalneav> I was trying to find something else I could make it die with
<crimsun> try anything using alsa
<sbalneav> Since "Dies on playing a windows game produced in 1999 under wine" isn't a use case that'll get taken too seriously :)
<crimsun> i.e., anything that would route through the pulse pcm+ctl alsa-plugin
<sbalneav> ok, will do.
<crimsun> my most simple tests are speaker-test, ogg123, and mpg123
<sbalneav> ogg123's a good one.  I got oodles of oggs. I'll try that.
<sbalneav> Thanks!
<alkisg> Hmmm dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork gives 3 choices: default, young, and plain. Would it be possible to also have an "ubuntu" choice there? :)
<alkisg> Or, could we modify "plain" to use the ubuntu icons instead of the gnome icons, etc?
<alkisg> Relevant files are in /usr/share/edubuntu-artwork/gconf
<alkisg> Maybe the best thing to do would be to lower "atomix, edubuntu-artwork, gnome-icon-theme-gartoon, khelpcenter4, kolourpaint4, xaos" from "Depends:" to "Recommends:" in edubuntu-desktop.
<alkisg> This way if someone doensn't want one of those, he can still keep the rest of the edubuntu-desktop.
<sbalneav> alkisg: Makes sense
<alkisg> OK, filed there: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/edubuntu-meta/+bug/508923
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 508923 in edubuntu-meta "Lower some dependencies to recommentations" [Undecided,New]
#edubuntu 2011-01-10
<mgariepy> morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning
<giorgos> someone who speaks greek??
#edubuntu 2011-01-11
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning mgariepy
<mgariepy> hey good morning highvoltage long time no see !:P
<highvoltage> heh
<neil_d> I have a new ltsp setup! but the client logins are not reliable... the correct name and password sometimes get refused by the server... is there anything that can be done about this?
<HedgeMage> nixternal: It's usually pretty dead in here this time of day, you might want to try in a few hours.
<HedgeMage> err, neil_d ^^^
<HedgeMage> sorry, nixternal -- mistabbed
<HedgeMage> neil_d: If I knew LTSP well, I'd jump in.
<neil_d> HedgeMage: ok I will keep trying....
<alkisg> neil_d: try also in #ltsp
#edubuntu 2011-01-12
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<mhall119> morning
<mhall119> highvoltage: I've decided what I'm gonna do about xdg-launcher
<mhall119> I'm going to fork it as qimo-launcher, then daker and I can add any extra features that wouldn't necessarily be useful for Qimo to (a renamed) xdg-launcher
<highvoltage> ok, cool
<highvoltage> and from my side, I build a qimo disc (if you could call it that) with debmower last week
<mhall119> yay!
<mhall119> highvoltage: when do you need a prototype gnome session from me?
 * mhall119 is working on prioritizing
<highvoltage> mhall119: whenever you're ready. friday would be good :)
<mhall119> :P
 * highvoltage is good with applying pressure
<mhall119> as long as I get to pick *which* Friday
<highvoltage> deal.
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting time?
<highvoltage> (well, was 15 minutes ago but now is just as good :) )
<highvoltage> mhall119: I can't remember if I included any documentation with that (probably not)
<highvoltage> mhall119: but you basically go to a directory where you want your .iso and run "debmower qimo.debmower" as root
<mhall119> okay
<mhall119> I'm reading the code now
<highvoltage> (if you run debmower without adding anything it will build an ubuntu cd)
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> yep, nothing spectacular right now, this version is just taking some of the stuff from all the old scripts I had and adding it together
<mhall119> highvoltage: is there a bzr branch for debm?
<mhall119> lp:debmower?
<highvoltage> yes
<highvoltage> if you want to make changes/improvements I can add you if you want?
<mhall119> I'll just propose my changes for merging
<highvoltage> ok
<mhall119> and file bugs, of course ;)
<highvoltage> feel free :)
<highvoltage> that builds a qimo cd on my laptop in less than 10 minutes from scratch, it should make it easier for you to move from one ubuntu release to the next
<highvoltage> since you don't have to do much more than replace 'maverick' with 'natty' in a definition file
<mhall119> yeah, that sure souds nice
<mhall119> sounds
<dinda> is there a meeting today?
<mgariepy> dinda, there was a meeting about an hour ago
<dinda> ack, missed it again
<mhall119> it's good to see you anyway
<mhall119> how are things?
<dinda> mhall119: cold - freezing here!
<mhall119> what are you doing these days?
<dinda> mhall119: working with the platform team on the developer manual
<mhall119> still working for canonical?
<dinda> mhall119: I sent highvoltage notice that the Edubuntu marketplace was fine with Canonical, even included a disclaimer that it's all community selected
<dinda> mhall119: yip
<mhall119> ah, good to hear
<dinda> mhall119: so was hoping to start getting interested companies listed in the new marketplace
<highvoltage> dinda: I'm sure we talked about it before, but stgraber talked to claire at uds and she made other suggestions. for one, canonical will list service companies on the Canonical site and then we'll just link to there (once the pages on the Canonical site is finalised)
<highvoltage> the edubuntu one will still be kept for people who sell edubuntu products otherwise
<dinda> highvoltage: I'd not heard that
<dinda> highvoltage: I wouldn't count on any canonical site getting updated quickly
<highvoltage> dinda: and I don't :)
<dinda> highvoltage: besides I thought you folks wanted the marketplace to list the Edubuntu only companies and folks interested in offering services
<highvoltage> dinda: we wanted to, but we agreed to what claire proposed, so if we're going with something else than that we'd probably have to talk to her again
<highvoltage> oops, s/claire/jane/g
<dinda> highvoltage: that's s big mixup in peoples :)
<stgraber> not the first time he does that :)
<highvoltage> heh, stgraber just told me the same thing, there used to be 2 claires and 2 janes, and for some reason I mix all of them up
<dinda> highvoltage: good thing there is only one Dinda!  ;)
<highvoltage> dinda: heh, yeah. I'm sure I'd have gotten her name right if I was actually at UDS  this time :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: debmower only works if all the packages are in the archives, doesn't it
<mhall119> or in a PPA
<mhall119> some repo
<mhall119> where apt can find them
<highvoltage> mhall119: indeed. you can specify ppa's or custom archives in the template though
<highvoltage> mhall119: so, in /usr/share/doc/debmower/examples/template you'll see an example template for ubuntu and debian
<highvoltage> mhall119: for qimo you'd probably want to copy that and make a qimo template
<mhall119> tar: ./proc/pts: Cannot mkdir: No such file or directory
<mhall119> tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors (setting nameservers) (setting /etc/apt/sources.list)
<highvoltage> mhall119: inside those example directories you'll see a sources.list file, you could add PPA's and other repositories you'd like to use for qimo in there
<mhall119> ok, I'll look into them
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah yes, that happens, you can ignore that error for now (or file a bug :) )
<mhall119> I'm also going to need to use custon syslinux files
<mhall119> I'll add that when I get to that stage though
<highvoltage> mhall119: that also goes into the template
<highvoltage> I can't remember off-hand where you set the template, but I think that's in the example too :)
<mhall119> ah, ok, so there are template and then there are configs
<mhall119> I see
<highvoltage> yeah, the template is for everything we don't want in debmower itself or in a config file. exactly for the kind of things you mention above
<mhall119> ok, makes sense now
<highvoltage> I guess the sources.list doesn't strictly have to be a seperate file, but I like it that way and I think it makes it easier for most people
<highvoltage> mhall119: when it get's to the grub prompts, just choose nothing, and when it asks you if you're sure you don't want to install grub, then just confirm that
<highvoltage> mhall119: that will be fixed when I can preseed that properly
<mhall119> ok
<mhall119> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic
<mhall119> df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory
<mhall119> cryptsetup: WARNING: could not determine root device from /etc/fstab
<mhall119> also normal?
<mhall119> hmmm, squashfs errors galore...
<highvoltage> mhall119: yep, I'll hide that in the future
<highvoltage> mhall119: stuff about xapian file indexes that changed?
<mhall119> looks like chroot/proc wasn't unmounted before mksquashfs was called
<highvoltage> mhall119: oops, then I need to upload a new version (sorry :p)
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah, did you ^C it somewhere during a previous build?
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> I broke something?
<highvoltage> mhall119: ah, what happens is that the clean-up part doesn't run, and then the old proc still stays mounted, so when it runs again, it mounts proc again, and when proc is unmounted the 1st proc is still there
<mhall119> ok..
<highvoltage> mhall119: what I'll do is catch that in the future so when a user presses ^C it will still do the cleanup before aborting
<mhall119> let me clean up and run it again
<highvoltage> I meant to warn you about that :)
 * mhall119 is good at breaking things
<highvoltage> I did that a few times too :)
<mhall119> also, the qimo config has ISONAME defined before VERSION, but ISONAME contains $VERSION
 * highvoltage adds that to the TODO file
<mhall119> this is going to make my live at least 10% more awesome
<mhall119> life
<highvoltage> ok, swapped VERSION and ISONAME in upstream sample :)
<highvoltage> I'll be happy if it works for you, I want it to eventually eliminate all its predecessors (some of them are still in use)
<mhall119> does bzr builddeb work on lp:debmower
<mhall119> ?
<highvoltage> I don't know, I haven't used that yet, is there a wiki page or something for builddeb?
<mhall119> I think it just looks for a ./debian directory
 * highvoltage installs bzr-builddeb and checks
<mhall119> nope, doesn't work, needs an upstream tarball
<highvoltage> ah, ok. I'll add it to my todo fwiw
<mhall119> the way I was told to do things was to put my app's source in one branch, without any deb stuff
<mhall119> then make another branch with the debian file and everything
<highvoltage> that is indeed the right way to do it
<mhall119> then if you have a watch file, you just need to bzr branch lp:debmower-pkgbranch
<mhall119> then bzr builddeb will find the orig.tar.gz, download it, and do everything for you
<mhall119> so now I upload my source.tar.gz into launchpad, the watch file finds them there
<highvoltage> how do you upload your source.tar.gz to launchpad?
<mhall119> create a new release
<mhall119> you can upload a file to attach to that release
<highvoltage> I thought so, I just don't see an option for that in LP
<highvoltage> do I need to define milestones first or something?
<mhall119> https://launchpad.net/xdg-launcher/+download
<mhall119> yeah
<mhall119> define a milestone, release the milestone, upload the file for that milestone
<highvoltage> ok
<mhall119> it's be nice it it where more tightly tied to bzr
<highvoltage> yeah, I've never done upstream stuff in LP before, thanks for the tips :)
<mhall119> no problem
<mhall119> glad I can repay some of the tips you've given me
<mhall119> question
<mhall119> line 135 of debmower
<mhall119>     REMOVE='ubiquity casper user-setup discover1 xresprobe libdebian-installer4 os-prober'
<mhall119> any reason that's not $LIVECD?
<highvoltage> yes
<mhall119> it doesn't seem like it would work for SYSTEM="debian"
<highvoltage> I missed that while removing some hardcoded stuff :)
<highvoltage> sounds like that should indeed be $LIVECD
<mhall119> ok, just making sure I understand what all it's doing
<highvoltage> good :)
<mhall119> is there a reason for specifying the blocksize on mksquashfs?
<mhall119> I've done it in the past to try and get the smallest image possible, but I just guessed
<highvoltage> yes, merely to have it tunable, on very slow systems a smaller block size is better performance wise
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> larger blocks = smaller image but slower
<highvoltage> smaller blocks = larger image but faster
<mhall119> to a degree
<mhall119> woot! ISO created, and only 553 MB!
<highvoltage> on a geode machine I once had to support it shaved 20 minutes off the installation installing a 2.4GB image
<mhall119> wow
<mhall119> that's a lot
<highvoltage> so setting the blocksize for that client is important
<mhall119> okay, this rocks, thanks highvoltage
 * mhall119 will be up all night now
<highvoltage> cool, now to test if it works :)
<highvoltage> you just have to choose qimo from gdm, but as you say, a qimo-desktop package can fix that :)
<mhall119> yeah, I just have to make it
<mhall119> I'll test the iso once I get home
<mhall119> it's 5pm :)
<highvoltage> yup
<highvoltage> mhall119: making a release tarball also at least encourages me not to make it a native package :)
<dgroos> I'm trying to install Smartboard software into the 32 bit chroot and can't start.
<dgroos> the software is called: SMART Notebook Software With Drivers 10.package
<dgroos> I know how to use apt-get install and dpkg -i commands but neither work with this .package
<highvoltage> I'm not familiar with it, but what happens when you log in to the thin client and try to start it?
<highvoltage> (as in, in the chroot from a vt on the thin client)
<highvoltage> and does it have any logs?
<dgroos> I can't even get that far...
<dgroos> It just says something like can't find package.
<dgroos> let me see...
<dgroos> I try this command:
<dgroos> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -i  '/home/dgroos/Desktop/SMART Notebook Software With Drivers 10/SMART Notebook Software With Drivers 10.package'
<dgroos> and get this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/553397/
<dgroos> Thanks highvoltage for giving it a look.
<dgroos> I think I don't know the command to install .package files.
<dgroos> alas...
<dgroos> gotta go.
<dgroos> maybe tomorrow.
#edubuntu 2011-01-13
<mhall119> highvoltage: the resulting .iso didn't work :(
<mhall119> ISOLINUX error
<mhall119> No Configuration file found
<mhall119> looks like the template dir might be missing some stuff
<highvoltage> mhall119: my guess is that there's probably something missing from depends: in debmower. it copies some of the files in there from installed packages such as syslinux, etc
<highvoltage> mhall119: I'll check it out a bit later
<mhall119> hmmm...
<mhall119> ok
#edubuntu 2011-01-14
<mhall119> woot! custom XDG Menu file made for qimo-launcher
<mgariepy> nice :D
 * mhall119 is building all his qimo-*_2.9.1 packages
#edubuntu 2011-01-15
<mhall119> hey highvoltage, know what's not a good idea?
<mhall119> rm -rf /var/cache/debmower/chroot when it still has /proc and /dev mounted :(
<highvoltage> mhall119: indeed, I havnen't had that happening recently with a clean finish the previous time though
<highvoltage> mhall119: but I don't like that the system's proc and dev is exposed anyway, what I'd like to do ideally is use LXC to isolate that completely
<mhall119> my gdm theme package failed ot install, which seemed to skip it to building the squashfs before umounting
<mhall119> had to reboot
<mhall119> evidently Linux doesn't like having everything in /proc deleted
<mhall119> I'm just glad I didn't do any lasting damage
<mhall119> seems to be going better now
<mhall119> I just dropped my gdm package from MAINMETA for the time being
<highvoltage> weird, a failing package shouldn't cause those filesystems not to unmount, they're being unmounted with the lazy switch
<mhall119> somehow it happened, squashfs was throwing "could not read" errors on the /proc/ files
<mhall119> I had to manually copy the isolinux stuff into ./image/
<mhall119> any idea what I'm missing to make that automatic?
<mhall119> hmmm, and that didn't work either
<highvoltage> squashfs shouldn't even try to get anything from proc. as a failsafe I used to exclude the contents of proc specifically in the squashfs command
<highvoltage> proc is supposed to be unmounted before the squashfs command though
<mhall119>   mksquashfs $CHROOT $IMAGEDIR/$LIVEDIR/filesystem.squashfs -b $BLOCKSIZE
<mhall119> it is supposed to be unmounted first though
<alkisg> A --one-file-system parameter would be handy for mksquashfs
<eddiek> is there an LTS version of Edubuntu
<eddiek> hello
<daker> eddiek, Edubuntu 10.04 is an LTS
<eddiek> where do i download that from?
<daker> eddiek, http://edubuntu.org/news/10.04-release
#edubuntu 2011-01-16
<jussi> Hey all - have you all seen this: http://www.onlinevolunteering.org/en/vol/opportunity/opportunity_form.html?id=14859 ??
#edubuntu 2012-01-09
<mgariepy> good morning everyone
<highvoltage> good morning mgariepy
#edubuntu 2012-01-11
<dgroos> Hi high voltage -- what time's the meeting?
<dgroos> * highvoltage
<highvoltage> in around 40 minutes, dgroos
<dgroos> 'k
<highvoltage> howdy!
<tedmasterweb> hi
<highvoltage> anyone here for the Edubuntu meeting?
<tedmasterweb> me
<highvoltage> great
<highvoltage> stgraber, dgroos, mgariepy, alkisg: around?
<highvoltage> I guess I'll start off by mentioning some news
<dgroos> a round and as usual, a square ;)
<highvoltage> - Edubuntu 12.04 will be an LTS version
<highvoltage> We went through the process with the Technical Board and they approved it on Monday
<dgroos> nice! congrats.
<highvoltage> I put together a quick blog post about it for the edubuntu blog: http://edubuntu.org/2012-01-10/edubuntu-lts-status
<highvoltage> - stgraber has been cleaning the python build dependencies for packages shipped with Edubuntu
<highvoltage> we don't have any legacy python dh scripts anymore
 * alkisg waves
<highvoltage> anyone else have any news to share?
<highvoltage> one of our goals for 12.04 is also to create some bite size tasks for Unity lenses
<highvoltage> they're reasonably simple to create and may be really useful in education
<dgroos> Unity lenses?
<highvoltage> yep, let me see if I can find a link with more info...
<dgroos> btw, how easy will the JRE install, be?
<dgroos> (from your blog post)
<highvoltage> well, here's a somewhat technical page describing lenses: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses
<highvoltage> dgroos: very easy, the java we're shipping now will just be an apt-get / software center install away. you won't need additional archives or anything fancy.
<dgroos> Cool.
<highvoltage> dgroos: basically, lenses allow you to display data you have on your system (or on the internet) in a specially organised way
<highvoltage> dgroos: have you seen Ubuntu TV? it's main interface is actually a unity lense.
<dgroos> Not yet, but will check it out.  Is this a way that we could do edubuntu-menu type stuff?
<highvoltage> possibly
<highvoltage> you could probably implement something like per-grade menus with that
<dgroos> could it be per-group menus? (user groups)
<highvoltage> I'm wondering if we should do weekly meetings again too
<pere> a better way is probably to use desktop-profiles.
<highvoltage> I think we kind of lost momentum doing it monthly
<pere> it would allow per-group menu reordering.
<highvoltage> indeed, desktop-profiles work great for that
<dgroos> Thanks, I'll check into these as well.
<highvoltage> I've been looking at our artwork situation last week
<pere> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/i386/education-menus/filelist show a desktop-profiles package reordering KDE and Gnome menus.
<dgroos> pere: thanks.
<highvoltage> I think that we should actually stick with the wallpaper we used in 11.10. We had great feedback on it and we never really extended it to the whole system. I think it might actually be best to extend that artwork and polish it up more rather than changing it
<highvoltage> Will talk about that on-list to see if there's any ideas/objections/etc
<highvoltage> pere: I haven't had much chance yet to try to integrate an edubuntu machine into a debian-edu network yet
<pere> too bad.  squeeze/beta2 is very good now. :)
<highvoltage> pere: but I've gotten some big hairy sticky things off from my todo list so I should get to it sooner now
<dgroos> will there be any changes in users and groups tool--sorry I've dropped out of the loop.
<highvoltage> well, even if we get it right with some documentation on what users have to do, I guess it won't be that bad. if we have something working then we can get it *great* for the next release(s)
<highvoltage> dgroos: nothing planned as far as I know. aparently the kde users and groups tool is a lot better and someone even suggested that we ship that, but I doubt it would happen
<highvoltage> dgroos: I guess when we have freeipa in ubuntu we'd probably use that in edubuntu
<dgroos> I did end up using their tool a couple of years ago due to a bug in the GNOME tool.
<pere> highvoltage: in theory all you should need to integrate a ubuntu machine into a skolelinux network should be to install libpam-sss and libnss-sss, and the rest will happen automatically. :)
<dgroos> Cool.  How about LDAP tool?  I mean a tool that doesn't take too much sys knowledge?
<highvoltage> pere: I'll try that and paste that back if it doesn't work :)
<highvoltage> dgroos: that's what freeipa does as well. you get user management and ldap/kerberos/etc all in one
<pere> dgroos: jxplorer seem to be the best gui for ldap editing.
<highvoltage> dgroos: and on the client side you install sssd and then you pretty much have authentication against it and cached credentials / kerberos tickets / etc.
<pere> in Debian Edu/Squeeze, we set up a LDAP backed Kerberos server out of the box, and use sssd for the laptop setup to allow laptops to work also without connection to the LDAP/Kerberos server.
<highvoltage> anything else that anyone wants to bring up? I guess alkisg, mgariepy and stgraber is busy elsewhere atm :)
<highvoltage> pere: I didn't realise it did all of that already. When I have a working setup I'll document it for the edubuntu website too
<pere> am I allowed to talk about Debian Edu?
<highvoltage> pere: as much as you want!
<pere> highvoltage: it does all that and more. :)
<dgroos> I think it's great the collaboration that has started between the diff distress.
<highvoltage> cool
<dgroos> *distros
<pere> in Debian Edu, we have automatic configuration of Nagios and Munin, where clients register with the server and the server automatically start to monitor the services on the clients.
<pere> this is done using the sitesummary package.
<highvoltage> I've never heard of that
<pere> we also provide KDE, Gnome and LXDE as desktop solutions.  KDE get most work, but the others seem to work fine as well.
<highvoltage> looking at the package description it looks like it could be useful for a bunch of stuff
<pere> See <URL: http://narvikskolen.no/munin/localdomain/localhost.localdomain.html#Sitesummary > for the munin count for the city of Narvik. :)
<pere> The admin set site to be the name of the school, and the stat show how many computers report in from each school. :)
<dgroos> Wow--mucho info.
<pere> http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu-announce/2012/01/msg00000.html is the announcement for beta2 of Debian Edu/Squeeze, which I hope to have ready in a few weeks.
<highvoltage> nice
<highvoltage> I'm a bit unsure, is this the first squeeze release for debian-edu? or just the point release update?
<pere> we also provide LTSP setup out of the box, with either thin clients (X terminals running everything on the server) or diskless workstations (workstations running everything locally but with no disk - root is NFS).
<pere> when we are done, it will be the first squeeze release for debian edu.
<pere> progress has been slow since I got my second kid. :)
<highvoltage> I guess we can announce that on the Edubuntu website too when it's ready, if that's ok
<pere> absolutely. :)
<pere> one nice feature is our roaming workstation profile, which is the laptop setup with connections to the LDAP/Kerberos server.
<highvoltage> I'm sure I've seen you post it before in #debian-edu, but where's the link to the iso that should be tested?
<pere> I made it autodetect everything in a way that allow me to install it at the university of oslo network and get it to connect to the uio.no infrastructure instead.
<dgroos> That is an important feature for schools that allow integration of student laptops into their network.
<pere> I made a pam module that create a local home directory for the user on the first login, and after that the user can take the laptop with him and log using the cached password.
<pere> highvoltage: at the end of <URL: http://lists.debian.org/debian-edu-announce/2012/01/msg00000.html > are the links to the ISOs.
<highvoltage> thanks
<pere> we also look up the networked home directory and provide a KDE and Gnome shortcut to the SMB exported home directory.  Thanks to Kerberos, this worked flawlessly at the university. :)
<pere> I could just click on the link and get direct access to my university home directory. :)
<dgroos> cool, very useful.
<pere> I guess that is enough adverticement for now. :)  There are heaps of other nice stuff in Debian Edu, so check it out. :)
<highvoltage> that's pretty neet
<highvoltage> *neat
 * alkisg wants to try debian-edu in a school some time, but didn't have the chance to do it yet
<highvoltage> pere: yeah features like that are a bit harder to just find by yourself though. thanks for mentioning it :)
<alkisg> highvoltage: about the weekly vs monthly meetings... why not every 2 weeks?
<highvoltage> alkisg: well, I just sent a mail to the list about it. I think perhaps every week but with alternating times
<highvoltage> alkisg: this timezone is hard for some people in your timezone because it's in the evening, so perhaps there should be an earlier slot too
<highvoltage> alkisg: but I guess every 2 weeks would be fine too
<alkisg> Nah, at 9 a.m. here teachers are at schools so they couldn't attend meetings. It might help people in other timezones though
<highvoltage> alkisg: perhaps we could try that first
<highvoltage> well 9:00 UTC would be around 11am for you
<alkisg> Ah 9 UTC, not 7 UTC... same thing though
<highvoltage> but yes, they'd still be at school
<pere> for me it need to be after the kids are in bed, so 19:00 UTC was fine.
<alkisg> It'd be interesting to try alternate meeting times, yup
<highvoltage> so perhaps we should keep the last wednesday of the month at 19:00 UTC
<highvoltage> and then have another one the second wednesday of the month on another time
<highvoltage> we've had a few people say before that 19:00 never works well for them
<highvoltage> so it would be nice to have an alternate time
<dgroos> I can only do it now since I'm not teaching this year.
<highvoltage> yeah I think you, dinda and flint asked for alternate times a few times
<highvoltage> ok, I'll update that to the list too
<highvoltage> I have nothing more, anything else before we wrap up?
<alkisg> Some small news about epoptes, a new version with groups support will be released soon, I hope stgraber can import it even though we're past debianimportfreeze
<highvoltage> cool, that's a nice feature
<dgroos> For sure.
<highvoltage> pere: have you seen epoptes before?
<highvoltage> pere: it's similar in some of its functionality to italc, we're moving away from italc to epoptes in edubuntu: http://www.epoptes.org/
<pere> highvoltage: nope.  the italc alternative I know about is controlaula.
<pere> I have not investigated any of them.
<pere> the german group in Debian Edu use italc, and the spanish group use controlaula.
<pere> highvoltage: why do you move away from italc?
<highvoltage> pere: stgraber pointed out some concerns over its supportability over the long term. epoptes seems to have less crud and it's very actively maintained by alkisg
<alkisg> And the reason we developed epoptes in the first place was that italc crashed in more than 50% of our systems...
<pere> does it work for non-linux machines?
<alkisg> No
<alkisg> It works on most Linux DEs, but not on non-linux machines
<pere> right.  I have vague memories of icalc or controlaula working on windows and mac, but might be mistaken.
<alkisg> Italc does work on windows. The problem is that it's not maintained on linux...
<alkisg> ...e.g. logout/reboot/shutdown has not been working on linux for years
<dgroos> I always found iTALC unstable and if a teacher can't depend on something, better to not to even try it.
<dgroos> That's why I like epoptes.
<pere> right.  did any of you try <URL: http://packages.qa.debian.org/c/controlaula.html >?
<highvoltage> I've only heard of it before but haven't seen it
<alkisg> I did, and while it has a lot of features, it's too focused on the specific installations done in Spain...
<alkisg> I don't think I got it working, and I had to format to get it properly removed :(
<alkisg> But that was 2-3 years ago, haven't looked at its progress since
<highvoltage> screenshots look java'y
<highvoltage> I need to go, can we call it a meeting?
<alkisg> Thank you highvoltage :)
<dgroos> I like the, "â¦share information and files easily".  Reminds me of the coccinella I just read about --use jabber?
<dgroos> OK
<dgroos> Thanks highvoltage as always.
<highvoltage> and thanks alkisg, dgroos, pere and tedmasterweb for being here :)
<highvoltage> I'll paste the meeting notes and log to the edubuntu-devel list tomorrow
<pere> dgroos: yes, coccinella use the jabber protocol.  I just sponsored it into Debian.
<pere> highvoltage: see you later. :)
<dgroos> that was you!  It is way cool.
<pere> dgroos: its maintainer hang on #debian-edu (irc.debian.org).
<dgroos> pere: does controlaula use it?
<pere> dgroos: no idea, but I doubt it.
<dgroos> I'll be watching it--I'm also watching how plone implements XMMP, it opens up lots of possibilities.
<pere> yeah, XMPP looks very promising. :)
<pere> chat, audio, video and whiteboard in one protocol.  but not one tool yet. :)
<dgroos> My studies focus on how software can scaffold group collaboration and bring it to a level higher then available due to limitations of students' cognition/social levels.
<dgroos> Sure.  Hey, I've been wondering, do you know CmapTools/CmapServer, pere?
<pere> dgroos: nope.  what do they do?
<dgroos> They are a great combo but not open source--though they are free.  They allow for
<dgroos> individual or group/synchronous mapping.
<pere> btw, regarding school settings.  you might be interested in <URL: http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/Changing_the_default_Iceweasel_start_page_in_Debian_Edu_Squeeze.html >. :)
<dgroos> For example, here's one I just made to show the steps of a unit I taught and the research I did on it: http://ci-cmap.oit.umn.edu:8009/rid=1K5NH8JPQ-1YGSKFB-Q70/Knowledgebuilding2.cmap.jpg?rid=1K5NH8JPQ-1YGSKFB-Q70&partName=htmljpeg
<pere> right, so a kind of mind mapper?
<dgroos> Yes.
<pere> freemind is the only one we have slightly looked at for Debian Edu.
<pere> I did not track that, so I do not know what was concluded regarding it.  I notice it is not included in our DVD.
<pere> http://freemind.sourceforge.net/
<dgroos> The CmapServer part is a web server, allowing both synch. editing as well as instant publishing to the web.
<pere> right.
<dgroos> I've tried out free mind but I don't see how to easily do this...
<dgroos> http://ci-cmap.oit.umn.edu:8009/rid=1K6FBMLGZ-2806BKN-MLZ/aaInquiry-Overview%20of%20Progressive%20Inquiry--for%20Education%20Professionals.cmap
<dgroos> that is, making the links between the nodes.
<dgroos> I wonder if XMPP would be the platform on which to build an open source concept mapping/mind-mapping tool.
<dgroos> Any thoughts?
<dgroos> *on that :)
<pere> nope, outside my area of expertice. :)
<dgroos> 'k thanks, thought I would ask, you never knowâ¦ :)
<pere> :)
<pere> I just sponsored the package on request.  I do not know much about XMPP.
<pere> if you want a package in Debian, my offer is listed on <URL: http://www.hungry.com/~pere/debian-sponsoring.html >. :)
<dgroos> Cool, I'll check it out.
<dgroos> highvoltage: ping?
#edubuntu 2012-01-12
<dgroos> good morning!
<dgroos> highvoltage: around?
<outofhand1> hi, i wonder if anyone can assist me ?
<outofhand1> i have just downloaded edubuntu11.10 onto dvd, and i wanna install in in my ubuntu 11.10
<outofhand1> i cant get the dvd to install... do i have to install over my ubuntu (restaring my pc, and boot with edubuntu dvd )
<outofhand1> ?
<outofhand1> is there no way i can just install it (edubuntu ) off the dvd within Ububntu ?
<dgroos> hi outofhand1
<dgroos> seems that you can do that by setting your sources to use the dvd...
<dgroos> do a sudo apt-get update
<outofhand1> ok? after the apt-get update?
<dgroos> and it will find the new packages...
<dgroos> and then sudo apt-get upgrade.
<dgroos> BUT...
<outofhand1> dgoos  ,  also. where do i setup the source to dvd only ?>
<dgroos> Wait a few minutes on the list here to see if someone adds to this conversation and improves my answer!
<outofhand1> ok?
<dgroos> To set up sources, wait, you are using Unity?
<outofhand1> bare with me ... im a noob on Ubuntu... i downloaded and using ubuntu 11.10 new desktop
<dgroos> If I were going to update my Ubuntu to Edubuntu, I wouldn't do it from the DVD, but would do it from the internet -- do you have an OK connection to the internet?
<outofhand1> SA connection sux... 1 Mb
<dgroos> You can tell the computer to add the edubuntu stuff from the Ubuntu Software Center--an application that lets you add/remove applications.  Do you know where this is?
<dgroos> that is, how to open this application?
<outofhand1> yeah i got that , thanks for that , what i wanna do is install the edubuntu on new installations of ubuntu pc's  the scenario is . i wanna install ubuntu on peoples pc. but they dont have internet, so i wanna install edubuntu packages from a dvd / cd
<dgroos> I see.  What you need to do is then what I originally said.  Let's see if I can walk you through it. Is the DVD in the drive?
<outofhand1> ideas?
<outofhand1> yes it is
<dgroos> open up the system application called something like, software sources
<outofhand1> ok got it open
<dgroos> There are 3 or 4 tabs available.  One of those tabs will have a list of sources where programs can be gotten from.
<outofhand1> its all ticked
<dgroos> find the tab that has this and one of them should show the Edubuntu CD or DVD.
<outofhand1> its ticked
<dgroos> including the cd/dvd?
<dgroos> cool.
<dgroos> It was that way before? or you just did it now?
<outofhand1> it was already ticked
<dgroos> OK, there should be something like an "Update" button, click it.
<outofhand1> cdform"[edubuntu 11.10_oneiric ocelot]" was ticked ... all i got is .. (add..   or add volume) no upgrade
<outofhand1> or update
<dgroos> 'k close that and try opening the application, "Update Manager"
<dgroos> Click on update there and see if that finds the apps on the DVD...
<outofhand1> let me check
<outofhand1> no . tells me there is no updates
<dgroos> Hmmm... I've reached the limits of my over the net advise, hopefully someone can build on that.  Be patient as it can take a while for attention on this list. Also I would suggest further google of, "Edubuntu install software from CD"  Good luck.
<outofhand1> many thanks for your help, hope ur new year is good one
<highvoltage> hi dgroos
<highvoltage> (bbl)
<dgroos> ...and back!
<dgroos> highvoltage: re-ping!
<highvoltage> dgroos: repong
<alkisg> dgroos: do you have the old certificate to check its date?
<dgroos> in and out... and in!
<dgroos> highvoltage: yesterday I was on the edubuntu.org site and looking for a page with an overview on LTSP and found it.
<dgroos> Then I went looking specifically for info on fat clients as they are significantly different from thin clients both with respect to client/server hardware requirements and for usb support.
<dgroos> And I found that there wasn't phat fat info.
<alkisg> Yeah, that was the problem, that the certificates generated by openssl expire after 1 month by default. I guess we should post a how-to-fix-the-problem in the wiki, and also automatically generate a new certificate on postinst if the old one has expired
<dgroos> I was envisioning something with thinclient info in 1 column and fat in the next.  Can I help with updating the page?
<dgroos> hi alkisg :)
<alkisg> Hello
<dgroos> I tried to do the zero size files in server/client but didn't do the trick.
<dgroos> I'll check the date right now...
<alkisg> dgroos: I'd be interested to check your system, to verify that this is indeed the problem - with a shared vnc or socat screen
<dgroos> hmmmm I tried to check the .crt file and saw no date in it.
<dgroos> for sure, that would be great :D
<alkisg> dgroos: x11vnc -noshm -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
<dgroos> Thanks!
<alkisg> dgroos: when it's done, reboot a client, and if it doesn't work, ping me
 * alkisg left vnc...
<dgroos> alkisg: Will do.  I won't be able to do this till after this teachers school day which is around 2:20 AM your time.  Probably better put an amplifier on the sound output to wake you ;)
<dgroos> Or tomorrow later... :)
<alkisg> Or send me a mail, if you can :)
<alkisg> If that fixes it, I should update the wiki pretty soon
<alkisg> To notify people that their certificates probably expired around christmas :-/
<dgroos> perhaps I'll do that (mail) electronically to reduce ping time ;D
<alkisg> Hehe
<dgroos> For sure.
<dgroos> I'll let you know.
<dgroos> bbsoon...
#edubuntu 2012-01-13
<highvoltage> dgroos: yeah, it's spread in other docs like the install docs and ltsp docs, but feel free to file a bug against edubuntu-website so that we don't lose track of it, I think someone else mentioned that as well in the past
<dgroos1> alkisg: available for some epoptes help?
<dgroos_> oops--guess not!
#edubuntu 2012-01-15
<slicknick5181> Hello I am having trouble getting an intel macbook to boot to edubuntu 11.10 ltsp
#edubuntu 2013-01-08
<highvoltage> stgraber: do you think we should delay alpha 2 to match up with kubuntu? also, do you think it's likely that the edubuntu server squashfs will be installable by then?
<highvoltage> (around Feb 8-10 it seems)
<stgraber> highvoltage: I don't have any problem with delaying. Not sure about the server squashfs, we'll see
<highvoltage> stgraber: is there a bug list to-do list for that? if not, could we talk about it some time like tonight so that you could walk me through it?
<stgraber> highvoltage: no fine grained todo list. Currently the only bit that's really functional is the user interface, so on that side, the only thing that's left I believe is implementing the overview page
<stgraber> my idea is to list the role (primary group) and the list of groups the user is a member of and a link to the password change page
<stgraber> that's probably as much as we'll want to show to a standard user in the first release of edubuntu server
<stgraber> the rest will be in the admin UI
#edubuntu 2013-01-10
<vmlintu> Has anyone come across this bug with LTSP in Ubuntu 12.10? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-openchrome/+bug/1097732
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1097732 in xserver-xorg-video-openchrome (Ubuntu) "Green screen with color depth of 16 bits" [Undecided,New]
#edubuntu 2013-01-11
<highvoltage> stgraber: bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/edubuntu.precise/"
<highvoltage> that's from the edubuntu image build log, I guess it was just a temporary glitch?
<highvoltage> (since the branch looks fine, at least from the web interface, for now)
<stgraber> highvoltage: yeah, I check and the branch clearly exists
<stgraber> *checked
<stgraber> my guess is temporary LP or firewall glitch. If it happens again I'll investigate
<highvoltage> k
#edubuntu 2013-01-12
<tds199> My dell mini 10v wireless drivers are not working on edubuntu 12.10 and nothing helped
#edubuntu 2014-01-06
<uBUXUBu> good evening technicians...
<uBUXUBu> i have acouple questions
#edubuntu 2015-01-05
<magnulu> Hello
<magnulu> trying to set up an usb stick with edubuntu for my kids, with persistence.. can't quite get it working
<magnulu> I am stuck with a windows 8 computer and a headless linux server in doing this.. I also have a spare laptop where I can boot edubuntu installation media, but withtout wireless working
<magnulu> I have tried linux live usb creator on windows, which resulted in a non-booting pendrive
<magnulu> I have also read the ubuntu wiki on persistence and usb with persistence, but can't seem to figure out what's relevant for me
<magnulu> a little confused, so I come here for help.. any pointers would be highly appreciated
<magnulu> I'll leave the question, and probably sleep for some hours!
#edubuntu 2015-01-06
<magnulu> right.. :-)
#edubuntu 2015-01-10
<sather> hello everyone!
#edubuntu 2016-01-14
<cfhowlett> I teach English writing in China.  I'm looking for an app to make feedback easier.  Something like: input student name, essay # and teacher's feedback.  Need to print out each student's feedback on separate sheets.  ideas?
<cfhowlett> I teach English writing in China.  I'm looking for an app to make feedback easier.  Something like: input student name, essay # and teacher's feedback.  Need to print out each student's feedback on separate sheets.  ideas?
<Maijin> The /ltsp/i386/... which is by default in the dhcp.conf doesn't exist
<Maijin> is there a command to generate it?
<Maijin> ok got it wrong
#edubuntu 2017-01-11
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-initramfs-tools (yakkety-proposed/main) [0.30ubuntu1.1 => 0.35ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: cloud-initramfs-tools [amd64] (zesty-proposed/main) [0.35ubuntu1] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2017-01-12
-queuebot:#edubuntu- Unapproved: cloud-init (xenial-proposed/main) [0.7.8-49-g9e904bb-0ubuntu1~16.04.3 => 0.7.8-49-g9e904bb-0ubuntu1~16.04.4] (edubuntu, ubuntu-cloud, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2018-01-11
-queuebot:#edubuntu- New binary: cloud-initramfs-tools [amd64] (xenial-proposed/main) [0.27ubuntu1.5] (edubuntu, ubuntu-server)
#edubuntu 2020-01-06
<stereomac44> I wanted to point out that the distro links on the edbuntu.org download page don't work.
<stereomac44> I sent them an email
<stereomac44> not good for business :|
<stereomac44> that's never good for business guys
<stereomac44> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/14.04.2/release/
