#ayatana 2009-06-09
<lamalex> will karmic's notify-osd be themeable?
<davidbarth> lamalex: hi; that's something we're discussing on the ayatana list and in the karmic blueprint that goes with the feature
<davidbarth> lamalex: the short answer is, yes in a limited way; ie provide the ability to cope with dark and light themes equally well
<davidbarth> lamalex: but we don't plan to let users pick particular colors for particular parts of the notification, in order not to reduce their qualities like being unobstrusives, yet clearly identifiables
<lamalex> davidbarth: thanks
<lamalex> i seem to have somehow missed that ML discussion
<lamalex> too much email means I miss the important ones..
<davidbarth> lamalex: i didn't mean that it was a current discussion topic (though it was mentionned in the n-osd discussions); but mainly that another good channel to ask/discuss that is the ayatana list
<lamalex> ah, gotcha
<smerp][> Good morning... I was wondering if someone could figure out WTH I'm doing wrong in trying to get an Xchat-GNOME plugin working with Indicator Applet
<smerp][> The plugin registers (i.e. the server is created and it connects to the Indicator Applet, but no matter what I do, individual indications don't show up.
<smerp][> Code (so far) is here -> http://pastebin.com/f5d3f63f2. Be gentle; I'm a bit new to GTK+.
<tedg> smerp][: You could run /usr/lib/indicator-applet/listen-and-print and that should show what you're sending.
<smerp][> tedg: oh, that's nifty
 * smerp][ tries
<tedg> smerp][: You should probably have a g_object_unref() in remove_indicator()  I don't see another place the object is unref'd
<smerp][> tedg: Yeah, I was wondering if I was missing some vital cleanup bits
<tedg> smerp][: I don't see anything else obvious.  Is the "sender" being set with the whole message?  It might be kinda big.
<smerp][> tedg: nah, that's just a crappy variable name choice on my part. right now, I'm just setting the channel / username that sent the message / action
<smerp][> so, it should be short and sweet
<tedg> smerp][: Okay.
<tedg> smerp][: Are you seeing anything unexpected in the debug log?
<smerp][> tedg: seems to be adding two indicators per message I receive, which seems busted
<tedg> smerp][: But neither is showing up in the applet?
<smerp][> tedg: correct
<tedg> Hmm, can you pastebin the log?
<smerp][> tedg: from listen-and-print?
<tedg> smerp][: Yes.
<smerp][> tedg: http://pastebin.com/f59ab4796
<smerp][> tedg: http://pastebin.com/f337b6d23 <- lastest code, after g_object_unref; now it crashes upon regaining focus
<smerp][> tedg: I'm pretty sure that's my fault; there were some changes made to freeing the list
<tedg> smerp][: Hmm, I don't see anything odd.  I have to run to a meeting, and actually then another meeting.  The only thing I could possibly think of is adding an icon.  If that's the issue, it's a bug.  But I think all the other apps do so.
<smerp][> tedg: yeah, I thought of that; I'll give it a shot and let you know
<smerp][> tedg: thanks for taking a look!
<tedg> kenvandine: Do you know if smerp][ was able to get his plugin working?
 * tedg is finally btk (back to keyboard)
<kenvandine> tedg: mostly yes
<kenvandine> he said it is still "quirky" :)
<kenvandine> but yes it works now :)
<tedg> kenvandine: Cool.  Hopefully listen-and-print can help with some of the quirkiness.
<smerp> tedg: nah, the quirkiness is in my court
<tedg> smerp: Ah, sorry.  I was looking for the full "][" and I didn't see you :)
<smerp> tedg: the problem earlier was me attempting to start a server listening for one thing and then setting message subtypes that didn't match
<smerp> yeah, the smerp][ account is the secondary one -- the one I was using while playing around with xchat-gnome
<smerp> FWIW: http://github.com/smerp/xchat-gnome/blob/3bd5605a3b28e58180137c0151c8d9b21102d29d/plugins/indicator-applet/indicator-applet.c
 * smerp will hack on it later tonight. :D
<tedg> smerp: Very cool.  There are a TON of people who ask me about that plugin.  I'm sure people will be excited about it.
<smerp> :D
<smerp> well, I didn't want to patch the existing Notify-OSD plugin (or the existing Notification Plugin, either)
<kenvandine> :)
<smerp> but ideally, this replaces the notification plugin (the one that puts the icon in the notification area in the panel)
<smerp> and it plays just fine with notify-osd
<tedg> smerp: I think that makes some sense.  The issue there is that it'd be nice if there could be graceful fallback.  So, for instance, you could choose the Messaging Menu, and if that isn't there do the notification area, and if that isn't there pop up a window, if there are no windows...
<smerp> tedg: yeah, that would be refactoring + eliminating some existing plugins to pull them all together
<smerp> tedg: that's not a bad idea, actually
<smerp> I mean, how many different plugins do you need?
<tedg> Yeah, I think long term it makes sense to integrate them.  But, that's easier when you're integrating working things, not getting them working at the same time.
<smerp> tedg: exactly. right now I'm just shooting for the simple thing that works
#ayatana 2009-06-10
 * mpt prepares to update the Notify OSD spec for Karmic
#ayatana 2009-06-11
<ubu-noob> >:o
<macvr> hi all... anyone here using the evolution mail client?
<smerp> macvr: Yes
<macvr> smerp: how does the new mail notification display? 
<smerp> macvr: Well, I get a translucent window from notify-osd in the upper right, and the Indicator Applet lights up (if you're using it)
<macvr> smerp: i meant text> does the mail subject show in bold ? or is only the X new mail in bold?
<smerp> Mine just comes up with "1 New Message"
<smerp> or "4 new messages"... subjects don't seem to pop up at all
<macvr> smerp: thats not very useful is it!
<smerp> macvr: no, I don't suppose it is ... not sure who should fix it, though
<smerp> I suppose the notify-osd support is plugged in somehow
<smerp> I wouldn't mind it working like the Gmail Notifier on my Mac -- a notification for each new unread message with a Subject, author, and snippet of the body.
<macvr> smerp: the changes have to be done in notify-osd to allow multi-line bold display... thanx for the reply
<smerp> macvr: ah, I see
<smerp> ok, np
<SiDi> smerp: honnestly, depends on the amount of mails / day :) i'd be crazy if it displayed each mail
<smerp> SiDi: hah, true
<macvr> SiDi: there should be a cut off limit
<SiDi> i dont think there should be notifications at all actually :)
<macvr> SiDi: check out the thunderbird addon. it displays the subject , sender .
<SiDi> now that we have a sexy notification server, the best we can do is avoid to waste it and use the as sexy indicator applet for the role of messages
<smerp> http://teddziuba.com/2009/04/disable-the-annoying-thing-in.html <- :D
<macvr> SiDi: i dont want to check the mails everytime it arrives ! but just check when i recieve important mails
<smerp> SiDi: oh, agreed
<smerp> indicator-applet is much better for this
<SiDi> yeh, i think the default pidgin behaviour is too aggressive :/
 * macvr thinks ideally a setup where the notification displays only for the contacts i have marked as important or for folders marked important would be nice 
<SiDi> looks like MSN's damn "Foo logged in, and i tell you with a notification even if you didnt talk to him for 2 years"
<SiDi> the problem is being able to setup important contacts
<smerp> SiDi: not only that, but the patches for libindicate for pidgin indicate for "user logged in", which shouldn't trigger the indicator-applet, IMHO
<macvr> but folders should be easy
<macvr> SiDi: how about ignore lists?
<macvr> smerp: cant the notifications in evolution be switched off? thunderbird has a display notification option... any equivalent in evolution?
<smerp> macvr: perhaps -- somewhere buried in the prefs
 * smerp likes them just fine, so I leave them on
<smerp> unlike ted, who wants to be left the hell alone, evidently
<macvr> ^haha! whats his prob though
<smerp> macvr: ted dzuiba is always cranky :D
<smerp> but fun to read, if you like that sort of snark
<macvr> smerp: http://teddziuba.com/2009/04/my-triumphant-return-to-el-reg.html < yup... kinda looks cranky :P
#ayatana 2009-06-13
<ubu-noob> I have an idea, but I need help fleshing it out.
<ubu-noob> Any replies?
<SiDi> hi
<SiDi> whats the idea ?
<ubu-noob> Thanks Sidi
<ubu-noob> Ok. I'll give it in chunks.
<ubu-noob> From my understanding, Ubuntu is very much like Debian.  There are various teams, who mostly build and test packages.
<ubu-noob> Now, there's nothing wrong with that.
<ubu-noob> What I'm interested in, is conveying the following thought:
<ubu-noob> Ubuntu shouldn't just be about developing software.  It should be about developing satsisfying user experiences.
<ubu-noob> satisfying
<ubu-noob> So, even though we have this working base of code
<ubu-noob> and these teams that repackage (mostly)
<SiDi> Do you think the whole ayatana process is only coding ? :(
<ubu-noob> No, ... but wait to what I'm getting at... (please :)
<ubu-noob> I think we should be concerned with the impressions people have of using Ubuntu
 * SiDi waits.
<ubu-noob> thanks
<ubu-noob> I mean, it is good to develop Use Cases for what various users are experiencing from using Ubuntu
<ubu-noob> Maybe I'm a new user, and I've only heard about Ubuntu.  Then I go to Ubuntu.com and and am interested in trying it out, but maybe I find the website confusing, and I'm unsure of what a LiveCD even is.
<SiDi> I still don't see your point
<ubu-noob> Or perhaps I don't even know I can just download the iso and boot off a usb stick
<ubu-noob> OK..  I'll push along
<ubu-noob> I mean, we have all these teams assembling the parts that go into Ubuntu
<ubu-noob> but where are the teams that are asking users how they feel about their experiences of using Ubuntu?
<SiDi> There is a team that helps explaining what ubuntu is (documentation), another that helps saying that ubuntu exists (marketing), another that works on making it more agreable to use (ayatana / user experience). What do you think that could be improved / that is lacking ?
<ubu-noob> A good question
<ubu-noob> I would say
<SiDi> Hm, actually we have quite a lot of feedback already, if thats what you mean. But its true its only feedback from people that take upon themselves to give it to us
<ubu-noob> Well, for one thing, after you complete a new install.
<ubu-noob> I think I'm not the only person who completed a new install, and then said to myself ... OK, so what am I supposed to do now?
<ubu-noob> Here I am looking at a blank desktop.
<ubu-noob> But where do I go from here?
<ubu-noob> What are the various things I can do with my system.
<ubu-noob> I've read many Brainstorm ideas that suggest some kind of 'welcome tour' that greets new users after their install is complete.
<SiDi> you're supposed to go watch whats on the menus, and begin using it :) the fact that there is nothing on the ubuntu desktop is a choice. It means : you've installed ubuntu, now you're free to use it the way you want and we wont bother you
<SiDi> I think its not needed. The point of the liveCD is to let the user try before and during the install
<SiDi> once it is physically installed they should already have clicked here and there and be at ease with the basics
<SiDi> ideally
<ubu-noob> Yes, I think that works well for you (an many others), but perhaps we need to consider the experiences of users who are not like us.  I think that is kind of what I'm getting at.
<ubu-noob> I'm certainly not arguing here
<ubu-noob> but in a spirit of kindness
<GreySim> From what I understand, there's supposed to be some sort of slideshow that plays during installation in the next release.
<ubu-noob> I'll just point out some words you're using
<ubu-noob> "they should already have"
<ubu-noob> it sounds like you are putting the blame on the new user for not being able to 'get up and run' after they have completed a new install
<SiDi> should in the sense of "they should have had the occasion to have"
<SiDi> its not in the sense of "its their fault if they didnt"
<ubu-noob> Yes, I understand.
<ubu-noob> I'm not saying you are wrong
<ubu-noob> I'm just saying perhaps there are users out there who would greatly benefit from having additional help in this matter
<ubu-noob> GreySim, thanks, I didn't know that.
<ubu-noob> And my point is ... there are probably many areas
<SiDi> ubu-noob: i agree that we could improve the "during install" part for those who dont feel like exploring
<ubu-noob> in which (not only new users) - but users in general
<GreySim> ubu-noob: There's talk about it on the Ubuntu Docs list, I don't know if there's some sort of web interface for that or not, but I imagine there would be.
<GreySim> The slideshow, I mean.
<SiDi> by providing documentation, a welcome tour bigger than the site's one, maybe other things
<ubu-noob> are having an experience of Ubuntu which could be greatly improved, if we were only aware of the issues they are facin.g
<SiDi> but i think users (current and most of new) would hate us for anything on the "default" desktop after install
<SiDi> its their place, we shouldnt be intruding (does this word exist ? :p) into it
<ubu-noob> I can appreciate that point of view
<ubu-noob> however, isn'tt that an arguement to not change.
<ubu-noob> I mean, why make any change to the system if you can argue those changes will upset some users.
<ubu-noob> you know
<ubu-noob> I think it's not about this particular point
<ubu-noob> It's not about just the welcome slideshow
<SiDi> As for feedback, i think the developers already have more than they can manage, so its important to focus on "high quality" feedback contacts, that will come to us and be ok with keeping discussing with us, instead of going to grab the users and ask them for their opinion (which would bother some, and which would gather more data than anyone can handle)
<ubu-noob> it's about having people interested in, and askign those types of questions
<ubu-noob> Thanks again GreySim.  Good info
<SiDi> Well, i think we have quite a big community yet ;) I understand that you may want it to be bigger, but i think we should trigger interest if we want interested people, and not ask them to get involved without them to be motivated for it
<ubu-noob> Sure, I'm not discussing issue of recruiting here, thought that is certainly valid.
<SiDi> ubu-noob: if you have several ideas on how to improve user experience, it would be very nice from you to write on the ayatana mailing list about each of them (if possible in a separate email for each idea, unless they're linked)
<SiDi> https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/
<ubu-noob> Hmmm.
<ubu-noob> Do I have to register?  How does it work?
<SiDi> Do you have a launchpad account ?
<ubu-noob> no
<ubu-noob> So I should sign up for one?
<SiDi> Alright, you should then create one :)
<ubu-noob> Then I can post to thte list?
<SiDi> yes
<ubu-noob> cool
<SiDi> once you have an account, go to https://launchpad.net/~ayatana/+join to can join the ayatana discussion team and subscribe to the list
<ubu-noob> thanks
<ubu-noob> tell me about ayatana
<ubu-noob> I already knwo
<GreySim> ubu-noob: Here is the first message about the slideshow: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-June/013200.html
<ubu-noob> you're the ones behind the new notification system in Jaunty, (I'm assuming)
<SiDi> then, just send emails to ayatana@lists.launchpad.net | be sure when you answer a mail on the list to check that the subject of your message is correct, and the recipient list includes this address
<GreySim> The archive for the month, which includes more of the slideshow stuff; it looks like the thread splintered a bit somehow. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-June/thread.html
<SiDi> the Desktop Experience team in Canonical are behind notify-osd and indicator-applet, yes
<GreySim> And the info to join if you'd like: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<SiDi> I'm personally just a community member though :)
<ubu-noob> Thanks GreySim
<ubu-noob> what's a community memeber?
<SiDi> It's an ubuntu user, like you and me, who decides to get involved on his own and to participate in general feedback / development / translations / documentation / artwork / anything else
<SiDi> If you post to this list, you'll kind of be a community member too :)
<ubu-noob> REading it now GreySim
<ubu-noob> cool :-)
<ubu-noob> @SiDi
<ubu-noob> The slideshow sounds interesting, by the way
<ubu-noob> So, who decided Ubuntu needed a new notification system, anyway?  Hadn't anyone heard of mummbles-project.org, a clone of apple's growl?
<ubu-noob> -- not that I'm complaining
<SiDi> What is apple growl ? 
<ubu-noob> I'm just curious where the idea came from
<ubu-noob> Yes growl
<ubu-noob> Let me google it.
<ubu-noob> here's one: http://watchingapple.com/2008/07/growl-works-great-for-system-notifications/
<ubu-noob> here's mumbles: http://www.mumbles-project.org/
<ubu-noob> I believe it works with or without a compositor
<GreySim> From what I understand, Mumbles decided to invent their own thing instead of following the fd.o notification spec, though I could be mistaken. It's been a while since I looked at it.
<ubu-noob> It's the first thing I thought of when I saw the vid on Mark S's blog about the new Jauntry notif system
<SiDi> wow, it looks exactly like notify-osd Oo
<GreySim> notify-osd and notification-daemon are interchangeable and follow a published specification.
<GreySim> Growl has themes and can look like anything, but the default "Smoke" theme does look like notify-osd, yeah.
<ubu-noob> Could they not have extended mumbles to send it's messges in a fd.o compliant way, though?
<GreySim> Growl themes are just HTML/CSS.
<ubu-noob> -- similar to Apple Dashboard widgets
<ubu-noob> (minus the js)
<GreySim> Yeah, which add JS. Growl may also use JS, but I'm not sure.
<GreySim> Yeah.
<ubu-noob> Great minds :-)
<ubu-noob> ;-)
<ubu-noob> And mumbles already has plugins: mumbles now has plugins for Gaim, Pidgin, Rhythmbox, Firefox*, Thunderbird*, and custom notifications.
<ubu-noob> Is it worth taking a look at the mumbles code?
<ubu-noob> Maybe it might save the notification-ocd guys some time and sweat
<SiDi> ubu-noob: im tempted to say no :)
<SiDi> plugins likely are compatibility plugins
<GreySim> I don't think there's any particular benefit.
<ubu-noob> ok
<SiDi> mumbles doesnt seem to use the standard notification system, which every app can use independantly if which notification daemon is used
<ubu-noob> got it
<ubu-noob> So, there won't be too long to wait for firefox to use notifcation-osd
<ubu-noob> ??
<GreySim> Yeah, so if you don't like needing compositing for notify-osd, say, you could just use notification-daemon, and the notifications will all still work.
<GreySim> Firefox can use it now, I think.
<SiDi> err, ubu-noob thats really up to the mozilla foundation :)
<GreySim> I can dig up a link, hold on please.
<GreySim> You can get it through an extension.
<SiDi> their code is crazy, and hard to maintain for third-persons. But i think there is a guy outside of their company working on it
<ubu-noob> an add-on?
<SiDi> GuyFromHell (he's likely in #exaile as we speak) coded such an add-on
<GreySim> http://lifehacker.com/5271207/firefoxnotify-puts-download-notices-in-ubuntus-pop+ups
<SiDi> but the actual way to do is to replace the app's osd by libnotify
<ubu-noob> I'm reading http://www.mumbles-project.org/extras/
<GreySim> I like this plugin more than OS X's built-in Growl support too, because it actually tells you WHICH file finished downloading. On Mac, Firefox just says "all downloads are complete."
<ubu-noob> Firefox & Thunderbird Extensions The following are generic DBus notification extensions for Firefox and Thunderbird. Mumbles plugins have been created to listen for events sent by these extensions however, they are not limited to use by mumbles. They each send generic DBus signals (NewMail and DownloadComplete) on their respective events so other applications (an Awn plugin for example) could listen for these signals and react accordin
<ubu-noob> So I guess DBus isn't generic enough?
<ubu-noob> Also, from the LH page:
<ubu-noob> One of the big disadvantages of the notification is that it is very difficult to do anything with them. For example once a download completes I can't click on the new notification to open the download folder. It looks pretty, but other than that not very functional.
<ubu-noob> ""
<SiDi> ubu-noob: its not about that
<SiDi> there is a standard lib called libnotify, drafted by freedesktop.org
<SiDi> used by gnome/kde/xfce, and used by almost every app (in the notable exception of firefox/thunderbird and a few others)
<SiDi> and you can code your own libnotify server (notify-osd, notification-daemon, xfce4-notifyd, and others)
<SiDi> mumbles defines its own protocol instead of respecting the current one
<SiDi> this means no compatiblity, and a hell to maintain
<ubu-noob> Aaaaa. I see
<ubu-noob> Just curious.  Does notify-o use DBus?
<SiDi> it uses libnotify :)
<SiDi> which, i think, uses dbus
<GreySim> Admittedly when they started Mumbles, notifications were still pretty new, notification-daemon sucked more, and notifications in general weren't necessarily "catching on" yet. It was a bit more of an 
<GreySim> open market", so to speak.
<SiDi> (but well, my bittorrent client too uses dbus :P)
<ubu-noob> which client?
<SiDi> one with 0 users :)
<SiDi> (ok, actually two of the devs use it, so 2 users)
<ubu-noob> As long as it has more than 0 trackers
<ubu-noob> So, nobody answered my question
<ubu-noob> Who decided what Ubuntu needed was a new notification system, in the first place?
<GreySim> Not a new notification system. A new notification display.
<ubu-noob> Yes
<GreySim> Which is close to being the same thing, but not quite.
<SiDi> clients dont have much to do with trackers :) and for who decided notify-osd, i'd answer : Canonical
<ubu-noob> GS - yes.  Libnotify was already in existence.  I understand.  But to the average user, I don't "see" libnotify.  I "see" graphics come and go in a nice fade on the top right corner of my screen.
<ubu-noob> Canonical
<ubu-noob> Another question
<ubu-noob> When I go to http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
<ubu-noob> there is a requirement to chose a location
<ubu-noob> but when I download firefox from the mozilla site
<ubu-noob> it doesn't ask me that
<ubu-noob> I just click and download
<SiDi> ubu-noob: you come two days too late for that discussion :)
<ubu-noob> how so?
<SiDi> it was held at #ubuntu-website and the web presence team will work on improving this specific thing for karmic
<ubu-noob> That's funny, because I posted it to Brainstorm so so so long ago: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/11375/
<GreySim> Oooh, a new place to lurk. Yay. :)
<SiDi> ubu-noob: i must say that we dont read the WHOLE brainstorm thing :)
<ubu-noob> Ha ha
<ubu-noob> I don't expect it is even possible 
<GreySim> ubu-noob: Have you looked at the actual slideshow yet? It's actually a bit better than I was expecting.
<GreySim> If you use bzr already: bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<ubu-noob> GS- lemme see.
<GreySim> Then find and open Slideshow.html
<ubu-noob> lemme se
<SiDi> ubu-noob: type "Gr" and then Tab, to get his whole name written ;)
<GreySim> I also answer to and have set highlights on "Sim"
<ubu-noob> SiDi: wow, that works
<ubu-noob> thanks :) SiDi
<SiDi> ubu-noob: you're welcome
<ubu-noob> still looking for the URL GreySim
<GreySim> Which URL?
<ubu-noob> for the slideshow
<ubu-noob> slideshow.html
<ubu-noob> I'm looking for something that starts with www. :-)
<GreySim> You have to check out the code. I don't know if there's a way to do it without bzr or not, but if you install bzr, just run: bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<ubu-noob> OK, now I'm a bit flustered
<ubu-noob> Brainstorm = website to give ideas
<ubu-noob> bzr = ???
<GreySim> Sorry, my mistake.
<SiDi> bzr is a distributed version control system
<SiDi> I'm sure it helps :D
<ubu-noob> cvs
<ubu-noob> vcs
<GreySim> Like cvs or svn, yes.
<ubu-noob> OK
<GreySim> If you're actually in Ubuntu right now, if you type "bzr" into a terminal, it should tell you which package you would need to install.
<ubu-noob> So, I have to apt-get bzr, if I want to look at the slideshow.html ??
<GreySim> Yes.
<ubu-noob> Do you have bzr installed
<ubu-noob> ?
<GreySim> I do, yes.
<ubu-noob> can you send it to me on pidgin (the html file?)
<SiDi> how did you find us, by the way, ubu-noob ?
<GreySim> It's multiple html files, but I can zip it up and put it in my Dropbox, I suppose.
<SiDi> ubu-noob: https://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+download
<GreySim> Or SiDi could do it the easy/smart way. :)
 * SiDi hides
<SiDi> i got so distracted i dont remember what i was coding on :/
<ubu-noob> SiDi: I was wanting to express my ideas, and wrote the Ubuntu Community Council, and gave them my thoughts on how Ubuntu development would be improved if we could shift attention away from assembling, coding, building, and bring more focus to understanding we are creating end user experiences -- and become more focussed on building compelling user experiences first, and then implementing them in code, second.
<ubu-noob> GreySim: if it's not too much to ask.
<ubu-noob> But would that give me a simple url
<ubu-noob> what I wouldn't have to register to anything in order to get
<ubu-noob> ?
<SiDi> http://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/trunk/snapshot-june-11-2009/+download/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu-snapshot-june-11-2009.tar.gz
<SiDi> lazy
<ubu-noob> (really, there's not way to transfer files over IM on pidgin?)  I think I did it on ICQ years ago.
<SiDi> there is a way to transfer files via IRC
<SiDi> and to get bothered with its random failures
<SiDi> the faster way is to click the above link
<ubu-noob> I see
<ubu-noob> I got it
<ubu-noob> Thanks SiDi
<GreySim> There is a way to transfer files, but I didn't want to open up IM, figure out which details to exchange, hope our networks didn't hate each other, etc.
<ubu-noob> No worries GreySim, I just go the file from SiDi's url
<SiDi> Did i win a cookie ?
<ubu-noob> where is the emoticon for cookie?
<ubu-noob> ()
<ubu-noob> (;:)
<ubu-noob> (8)
<ubu-noob> (*)
<ubu-noob> there!  a cookie with a single chocolate chip in the center
<ubu-noob> So, let me see if there's an archive of the talk the website team had.
<SiDi> there is one
<SiDi> but im lazy now
<ubu-noob> no worries
<ubu-noob> besides, I think I can find it
<SiDi> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/11/%23ubuntu-website.html
<ubu-noob> but first, I wanna look at the slideshow stuff you just sent
<ubu-noob> not so lazy... after all
<ubu-noob> :()
<ubu-noob> :-D
<ubu-noob> No more calling yourself lazy, OK.  You are finding urls faster than I can leap tall buildings in a single bound
<SiDi> yeh but its because i had it in my mailbox
<SiDi> :D
<ubu-noob> that helps
<ubu-noob> So, I'm looking at the slideshow stuff
<ubu-noob> So, is this supposed to be showing on the background of the Ubiquity installer when it's installing your system?
<GreySim> I think so.
<ubu-noob> Well, maybe that's OK, but ...
<ubu-noob> what if I want to pause it
<ubu-noob> >
<ubu-noob> ?
<ubu-noob> or go back to the previous slide?
<ubu-noob> or I want to remember a certain slide, so I can make use of that information after the install is complete?
<ubu-noob> I mean, it's not a bad thing having 4 seconds of a reminder in the middle of a fresh install.
<GreySim> Have you read the entire thread about it on Ubuntu Docs? If nobody has brought that up, maybe you should.
<GreySim> I haven't read the entire thread yet, so I'm not sure myself.
<ubu-noob> But is that enough for me to take full advantage of that information once the install is done and I'm left (all alone) at the blank desktop staring back at me?
<ubu-noob> GreySim: hmmm
<GreySim> Maybe it should be linked somehow from the System -> Help menu thing, or wherever the help is.
<ubu-noob> GreySim: you mean that question mark in the panel?
<SiDi> ubu-noob: you shouldnt consider what you see as an achieved work but as work in progress
<ubu-noob> SiDi: got it.  I'm still trying to find the url for it on Ubuntu Docs
<ubu-noob> does the project have an official name?
<SiDi> ubiquity-slideshow ?
<SiDi> ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu actually
<SiDi> join #ubuntu-doc (or docs ?)
<ubu-noob> it's just searching https://help.ubuntu.com
<ubu-noob> I'm just searching ..
<ubu-noob> just joined #ubuntu-doc
<GreySim> What are you looking for, exactly?
<ubu-noob> GreySim: the discussion logs for the ubiquity slideshow idea, to read if anyone has 
<ubu-noob> asked the questions I'm asking
<ubu-noob> - er, discussed those issues
<ubu-noob> "Whether you want to change the theme, font, mouse cursor or more, Ubuntu has all the necessary tools installed and ready for you to use. The arrangement, appearance and settings of your desktop are only a short click away..."
<ubu-noob> But it doesn't even tell you *where* you need to click, or even which Menu entry it is in.
<GreySim> It's the mailing list links I listed above.
 * GreySim wishes mailing lists were more like Google groups, where you don't actually have to use a horrid web archive to read, or just email to post.
<GreySim> But those who still wanted to interact through email could.
<SiDi> GreySim: then it'd be slow to browse for my low bandwidth :)
<ubu-noob> You've lost me
<SiDi> ubu-noob: the goal is to make the menus logical enough for the user to figure out on his own
<SiDi> without us to turn him/her into the average assisted windows user
<ubu-noob> GreySim: what did you mean about mailing lists?
<ubu-noob> I'm looking at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/11/%23ubuntu-website.html
<ubu-noob> but so far no slideshow talk at all
<GreySim> The initial discussion starts here: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-June/013200.html
<GreySim> You can see all the messages related to the thread on this page: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-June/thread.html
<GreySim> And if you want to participate in the discussions, you need to follow the directions on this page: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
<ubu-noob> I did find my brainstorm url on today's log!  Yippie!  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/06/13/%23ubuntu-website.html
<ubu-noob> How did it get there?
<GreySim> I'm not sure how you would reply to the existing messages in a proper fashion though, since you weren't already subscribed beforehand. And that's what else I was talking about just now, is how unnecessarily complex and over-geeky mailing lists are.
<ubu-noob> Still, how do I participate in the discussion, otherwise.  Do I need to register first to launchpad, then post to those pages?
<ubu-noob> er. lists
<ubu-noob> One second... need to get power cord before lappy dies.
<GreySim> You need to subscribe to the mailing list using the last link I gave you, to get started. But to participate in the discussion, I'm not sure how you would go about it, because the only way I know how requires you to have received a related message already, then you reply to that.
<GreySim> So I'm not sure how you would "properly" join the conversation.
<ubu-noob> I'm back
<ubu-noob> Oh, I see
<ubu-noob> That's terribly inconvenient
<ubu-noob> Can't I start a new thread, or is that improper?
<ubu-noob> SiDi: sorry to keep you waiting
<GreySim> I'm not sure.
<ubu-noob> What's the harm in trying?
<GreySim> I don't participate on mailing lists for the most part. I'm only subscribed to that one to listen for things like calls for proofreading.
<macvr> ubu-noob: u sure can start new topics
 * SiDi is actually back to his code.
<ubu-noob> oh, Sidi, don't go~~~
<ubu-noob> !!
<ubu-noob> (but I understand if you must)
<SiDi> im not going
<SiDi> just busy :)
<ubu-noob> but still open to talk, or no?
<SiDi> yeh, but just dont highlight my name ten times in a row :)
<GreySim> Likewise, sorta. Just finished breakfast, so now I'm about to start working on projects and will probably only check IRC occasionally.
<ubu-noob> GreySim: got it.  Where is it breakfast time now? Australia?
<ubu-noob> New Zealand?
<ubu-noob> SiDi: got it.
<GreySim> West coast US, but I keep a late schedule.
<ubu-noob> Well, I just want to thank both of you guys.  
<GreySim> GF's also sick and I was waiting for her to be awake so I could cook for us both.
<ubu-noob> GreySim: hope GF is feeling better.  Soup is always good.
<GreySim> Thanks.
<SiDi> ubu-noob: you're welcome.
<ubu-noob> I'm talking with someone on #ubuntu-docs, seeing about  how to share my slideshow thoughts
<ubu-noob> By the way, I'm guessing if I want to save this discussion (in pidgin) I just Conversation  > Save as, right?
<SiDi> Dont know
<SiDi> i use mibbit
<ubu-noob> Well, here goes nothing...
<ubu-noob> Yay!  Not only did it work, it outputs an html file, comlete with all the urls properly linked.  Nice job Pidjgin team.
<SiDi> mine doesnt log :p
<GreySim> It can, sorta, somehow.
<GreySim> They might have removed it though.
<GreySim> But at one point I joined a channel, and I had a log of all the recent conversation that had been happening.
<GreySim> Another Mibbit user may have been there, as I set up a Mibbit widget to connect to that channel.
<ubu-noob> Well, I was talking in #ubuntu-doc, and they pretty much said I can join the mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc) and post a new thread, or possibly reply to an existing one.
<ubu-noob> "ï»¿ In-Reply-To: header, if you can get the message ID of the previous one.  Also, just the subject stuff"
<ubu-noob> But I'll probably just start a new thread anyway
#ayatana 2009-06-14
<ubu-noob> GreySim: Just by luck, I found an article and youtube vid of the ubiqutiy slideshow: http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/06/ubiquity-ubuntu-installer-is-getting.html
<ubu-noob> Just in case you were interested
#ayatana 2010-06-14
<htorque> hello, to which process would i attach gdb to get a backtrace of a unity crash? is it mutter?
<didrocks> htorque: right, mutter
<htorque> didrocks, thanks :)
<didrocks> yw :-)
<kermiac> hi tedg or seb128 the indicator-applet hook (bug 583174) is ready for packaging in maverick. Do you want me to package it? Is https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-applet/ubuntu the the correct branch to use for packaging the hook in Maverick?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 583174 in Indicator Applet "Apport hook for indicator-applet (affected: 1, heat: 23)" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/583174
<tedg> kermiac, Yeah, that'd be great!  That's the correct branch.
<tedg> seb128, That'd be for Maverick, right?
<seb128> yes
<tedg> seb128, Do we need an SRU to add apport hooks or could we add it to the Lucid package as well?
<seb128> we need a SRU since we need an update
<seb128> I'm for batching it with other changes
<seb128> ie next time we do changes to the lucid source
<seb128> let's get it in maverick to start
<tedg> Cool, okay.
<kermiac> ok, thanks tedg, I'll replace the branch attached to my bug report & poke you over the next couple of days after I've packaged it
<tedg> But should we ask kermiac to branch it from the last Lucid version then?
<tedg> That way it'd merge cleanly.
<seb128> well let's get it in maverick to start
<seb128> I can deal with the backporting later
<kermiac> ok, thanks tedg & seb128 :)
<seb128> kermiac, thank you for doing the work
<kermiac> np seb128, glad to help
<qense> tedg: Are you on the new ayatana-dev mailing list already? :)
<tedg> qense, Oh, I didn't realize there was one.
<qense> it was just created yesterday or this morning
<tedg> Heh.  I just woke up! :)
<qense> It is meant for the implementation side of the Ayatana project.
<qense> tedg: Good morning to you, then!
<tedg> Eh, so the designers are kicking us out because of the CSD thread on their mailing list ;)
<qense> tedg: No, it was more initiated by suggestions posted by me and then the thing got its own life.
<qense> tedg: To be honest: I didn't say mailing list: I said 'place'. Mark S. turned that into a mailing list.
<tedg> qense, Ah, okay.  Seems like too many mailing lists, we'll see.  Perhaps some good will come out of it.
<qense> Lets hope for something good!
<tedg> I should really do release announcements if nothing else.
<seb128> tedg, qense: did you investigate the bluetooth indicator update bug?
 * qense looks at tedg
<tedg> seb128, I updated indicator-application but got my package rejected... I need to figure out why this morning :(
<seb128> tedg, updated where?
<seb128> tedg, can you give me the debdiff? I can test easily
<tedg> seb128, I pushed it to my bugfix PPA
<tedg> seb128, Let me find the link.
<tedg> seb128, Uhg, it totally rejected it.  Didn't even make it to LP :(
<tedg> seb128, Just a sec.
<tedg> seb128, http://people.canonical.com/~ted/watch.diff
<seb128> tedg, I like it
<seb128> tedg, let me try that here
<qense> tedg: Why could this be rejected? The patch looks good to me.
<tedg> qense, I think that I forgot to attach the source.
<qense> ah1
<qense> !
<tedg> qense, It's one of the problems (IMHO) with bzr build-deb -- you have to adding the -sa is hard.  "bzr bd -S -- -sa"
<qense> tedg: Bug report!
<tedg> bratsche, Can you review this?  I think getting it in will help you test registration.  https://code.edge.launchpad.net/indicator-appmenu/+activereviews
<tedg> Eh, wrong URL, but close enough :)
<bratsche> Sure.
<bratsche> ted: What is the priv->props DBusGProxy for?
<tedg> bratsche, Basically to track when the process or the object dies.  dbusmenuclient hides it, so I had to build a new one.
<tedg> bratsche, dbusmenuclient will actually reconnect if it comes back.
<bratsche> Okay cool.
<jcastro> wait, there's a new mailing list?
<qense> jcastro: yes indeed!
<qense> jcastro: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana-dev
<jcastro> oh cool, I can put my status reports here then I guess.
<qense> jcastro: That would be a nice way to make the mailing list worth subscribing to.
<jcastro> seems like the mailing list is becoming too noisy anyway
<qense> yeah, we need to divert some of the technical talk to a separate mailing list, or move technical talk to it when that is still done either in private or not at all
<seif_> hey tedg 
<tedg> seif_, What do you mean by custom?
<tedg> seif_, You want to make an app indicator?
<seif_> with a search ba
<seif_> :)
<seif_> with a search bar
<tedg> You mean like a text area similar to the Me Menu?
<seif_> yes sir
<seif_> :)
<seif_> is it doable in pyton
<tedg> Unfortunately we only have that code in the Me Menu right now.
<seif_> or do i need C or vala for that
<seif_> CRAP
<tedg> It's on my TODO list for maverick to move it out.
<seif_> :(
<seif_> :(
<tedg> But, I need to nail this appmenu stuff first.
<tedg> So I can push it up in the stack, but it's probably a week or two away.
<LaserJock> didrocks: is it better to ask Unity questions here or #ubuntu-desktop?
<tedg> Yeah, Vala and Python would both work.
<didrocks> LaserJock: here is good for Unity
<seif_> tedg, thanks
<LaserJock> I was just wondering if the launcher side panel is supposed to be able to hide
<seif_> will rock it
<seb128> tedg, qense: so with the indicator-application fix now devices are listed
<seb128> it has a bunch of 
<seb128> "(bluetooth-applet:2186): LIBDBUSMENU-GLIB-CRITICAL **: dbusmenu_menuitem_property_set_value: assertion `DBUSMENU_IS_MENUITEM(mi)' failed
<seb128> "
<seb128> though
<seb128> and some menus are still not listed like the "visible" one
<seb128> which is a toggle item
#ayatana 2010-06-15
<kermiac> hi tedg, ping re bug 583174 - the hook is packaged & the new branch is attached
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 583174 in Indicator Applet "Apport hook for indicator-applet (affected: 1, heat: 8)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/583174
<lamalex> does anyone know where the wiki page for the time indicator is? i can't find it and it's not linked from the launchpad page
<jcastro> lamalex: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClockMenu looks right
<lamalex> thanks jcastro
<lamalex> you the man
<LaserJock> so will it be possible to have the time indicator installed but not present?
<LaserJock> I keep getting 2 time clocks
<jcastro> not really
<jcastro> if you don't want it you need to uninstall it afaik
<LaserJock> :(
<LaserJock> I was trying to have both Unity and GNOME sessions
<LaserJock> but I end up with 2 clocks
<jcastro> yeah
<seb128> remove the applet in GNOME?
<jcastro> I remove the old one
<jcastro> but then I miss the date on the panel. *shrug*
<LaserJock> hmm, I guess I could remove the other applet
<LaserJock> hadn't really thought of that since that's the one I want
<seb128> seems it's a fair request
<seb128> but that's rather a wishlist and I don't see that change in the next weeks
<LaserJock> I just wondered if there was some mechanism in place to check for the presence of the other applet
<LaserJock> seems like no :)
<jcastro> LaserJock: all I need is the date on the panel and I would be happy with it
<LaserJock> I use the world clock and calendar quite a bit
<LaserJock> I wish I could click on something at least to get those
<lamalex> jcastro, date and easy calendar are my complaints
<lamalex> that was one of the best things about Linux when I first started using it. I don't think any other os has a calendar that easily accessible
<jcastro> lamalex: tbh I don't miss the slow loading part of the calendar, but yeah
<lamalex> not slow for me
<lamalex> always pops right up
<jcastro> lamalex: I don't know what the plans are for the new clock
<lamalex> the slow calendar is opening evolution
<LaserJock> lamalex: yeah, the calendar is key for me
<LaserJock> maybe I was in academia too long but knowing what day it is is more important than knowing what time it is :-)
#ayatana 2010-06-17
<thorwil> djsiegel: hi, so this Applications Place will blur the line between installed and available-to-be-installed applications, too?
<djsiegel> thorwil: yes
<thorwil> djsiegel: excellent. that's what i would push for, too :)
<hyperair> what if i don't want to see available-to-be-installed applications? can i hide them?
<hyperair> e.g. i hate evolution's guts and i don't want to ever see it anywhere on my screen.
<hyperair> djsiegel: ^^
<djsiegel> hyperair: hmm?
<djsiegel> hyperair: is you're browsing, you just see what's installed
<djsiegel> if you start searching, you see what's installed and what's available
<djsiegel> but the available stuff is in a separate group at the bottom
<hyperair> ah i see.
<hyperair> okay, that's cool then =)
<htorque> hello, should i file new bugs as duplicates of those three master bugs in indicator-appmenu or should i leave it up to you to categorize them?
<jcastro> vish: is it worth papercutting example-content? I thought kwwii and crew were redoing the whole thing
<vish> jcastro: well , anyone can fix papercuts :)  just because kwwii et al fix it , it aint much lesser , but that bug was more about the naming than about gathering content..
<jcastro> right
<vish> we just need to ensure naming, for the "fix" ;)
<jcastro> I was just saying, all those files are going away at some point
<jcastro> but I haven't talked to him about it since UDS so I don't know his plan right now
<vish> jcastro: cool , its david's baby , we can probably leave that bug as a reminder to ensure we dont fallback to our historical naming scheme ;p
 * jcastro nods
<seif> jcastro, how are the windicators coming along
<seif> jcastro, we have our first hack ideas :)
<jcastro> seif: hi seif!
<jcastro> I don't know anything about windicators, I'm your man for appmenu though!
<hyperair> tedg: appindicator# is screwed. again.
<hyperair> what happened this time?
<tedg> hyperair, I think there's a bug in libappindicator itself -- is that what you mean, or specific to C#?
<tedg> hyperair, I think there's a bug in libappindicator itself -- is that what you mean, or specific to C#?
<hyperair> tedg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/592706 this one probably.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 592706 in indicator-application (Ubuntu) "apps using the mono bindings fail to load (affected: 1, heat: 8)" [High,Triaged]
<bcurtiswx> Future work with windicators may be one for empathy (didn't see it listed in the 5 or future work, and I'm not gonna go Wiki spam :P)
<bcurtiswx> sorry got DC if anyone replied to my posting
#ayatana 2010-06-18
<wers> hello everyone :)
<jdifool> hi there*
<jdifool> I'm trying to build up slackware packages for the whole indicator group
<jdifool> I'm facing two different problems
<jdifool> the main one being the compilation of Nunit which is needed for indicator-application
<jdifool> if someone can point me towards a way to get Nunit to compile on Linux...
<jdifool> thanks in advance
<seb128> qense, hi
<qense> hello seb128
<hyperair> tedg: ping.
<tedg> Howdy hyperair
<hyperair> tedg: howdy.
<hyperair> tedg: so anyway i've been poking aroudn appindicator-sharp, and the issue seems to be that you've incremented the AssemblyVersion to 0.1
<hyperair> however, you didn't break ABI, and you didn't change the package name, so this is equivalent to a no-ABI-break SONAME bump, but without changing the package name.
<hyperair> i.e. now libraries looking for 0.0 can't find it in the GAC, because it got replaced by 0.1
<hyperair> er sorry i meant applications
<tedg> hyperair, Oh, I think the issue is that we've got too many c files in the gapi-parser: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-application/mono-bindings-startup
<hyperair> tedg: no, i don't think that's the issue.
<tedg> hyperair, I think the versions were the same, right?  I thought we just moved files and names packages correctly there.
<hyperair> tedg: i've run mono-api-check
<hyperair> the versions are different.
<tedg> Hmm, I've rebuilt with that and I get Tomboy working :)
<hyperair> indeed, you should
<tedg> Is it because I rebuilt Tomboy?
<hyperair> yes.
<hyperair> and because you're using upstream sources, i should think
<hyperair> the one in maverick is screwed
<hyperair> because you moved everything back to 0.0
<hyperair> but didn't move the pkg-config file
<hyperair> i mean the pkg-config file still spits out -r/usr/lib/cli/appindicator-sharp-0.1/...
<tedg> Hmm, shouldn't everything be going to 0.1 ?
<hyperair> tedg: your packaging shoved everything back into 0.0
<hyperair> which is what's wrong.
<hyperair> tedg: another thing is, since ABI wasn't broken, you should add a policy.appindicator-sharp.config or something
<hyperair> that maps 0.0-0.1 => 0.1
<hyperair> er policy.2.0.appindicator-sharp.config
<hyperair> it should also be compiled into a dll using al2 -keyfile:somethignorother.snk policyblahblah.config
<hyperair> and gacutil -i'd
<tedg> Hmm, you're loosing me a little bit there.
<tedg> I'm not sure how to map the policy there.
<hyperair> okay, let me go through this, looking only at the upstream situation first.
<hyperair> appindicator-sharp in trunk now has AssemblyVersion=0.1
<hyperair> however, there is no ABI break between appindicator-sharp 0.0.0.0 and appindicator-sharp 0.1.0.0
<hyperair> hence, applications which linked against apindicator-sharp 0.0.0.0 should be able to use appindicator-sharp 0.1.0.0 no problem, without recompiling
<tedg> Okay, so how do I tell Mono that?
<hyperair> there is a way to tell mono that when things look for appindicator-sharp 0.0.0.0, use the appindicator-sharp 0.1.0.0 dll, because it'll be fine.
<hyperair> that's using the policy file
<hyperair> i've written one
<hyperair> give me a moment ot pastebin it
<hyperair> http://paste.debian.net/77917/
<tedg> Okay.  Why is it 0.0-@ASSEMBLY_VERSION@ ?
<tedg> Shouldn't it be 0.0.0.0 ?
<tedg> And how do I generate "publicKeyToken" ?
<hyperair> tedg: i got that from your snk file
<hyperair> http://paste.debian.net/77919/
<hyperair> see
<tedg> hyperair, Oh.  I thought that was the example.
<tedg> Should that be generated in the build?
<hyperair> well, you can
<hyperair> it's up to you really, how much to generate
<hyperair> what it *should* end up with currently is... ASSEMBLY_NAME=appindicator-sharp, and ASSEMBLY_VERSION=0.1
<hyperair> after that, you compile it with al2
<hyperair> or $(AL) really
<hyperair> al works too
<hyperair> seems it's symlinked
<hyperair> $(AL) -link:policy.$$i.config -out:policy.$$i.$(ASSEMBLY_NAME).dll -keyfile:$(top_srcdir)/mono-addins.snk;
<hyperair> that's how it was done in mono-addins
<tedg> hyperair, Where $$i is appindicator-sharp?
<hyperair> in appindicator-sharp's case, it can be done with $(AL) -link:policy.2.0.appindicator-sharp.config -out:policy.appindicator-sharp.dll -keyfile appindicator-sharp.snk
<hyperair> tedg: ^
<hyperair> $$i = 2.0,  i.e. the .NET version, afaik
<tedg> hyperair, Okay.  And where do I put policy.appindicator-sharp.dll ?
<hyperair> tedg: in the same directory as appindicator-sharp.dll
<hyperair> tedg: and gacutil the dll 
<hyperair> tedg: once that's all done, there are the downstream changes: libappindicator0.0-cil must be renamed to 0.1
<tedg> hyperair, Okay.  Let me see if I can get this working first :)
<htorque> hello, how can i change the font size in the une panel? after an update it changed to super-small
<kenvandine> tedg, sorry... afk for a few... bbiab
<tedg> kenvandine, np
<tedg> htorque, It should be the same as the application font... but I've not played with UNE much.
<hyperair> tedg: sure. if you've got any further troubles please ask
<tedg> njpatel would be the guy to ask -- but he's not here right now.
<htorque> tedg, thanks! after a unity crash it's back to normal - very strange
<tedg> hyperair, Could you look at this branch and see if it matches what you were thinking?  https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/indicator-application/mono-version-agreement
 * hyperair checks
<hyperair> that would be... lp:~ted/indicator-application/mono-version-agreement, right?
<tedg> hyperair, Yup
 * hyperair branches
<hyperair> tedg: i think you need to use sed instead of just "cp" re: generation of the policy.2.0.appindicator-sharp.config from the .config.in
<hyperair> the @ASSEMBLY_*@ things need replacement
<tedg> hyperair, Ah, okay.
<tedg> hyperair, I wasn't sure if the al tool did that.
<hyperair> hmm what's this gtk-doc that autogen  complains about?
<tedg> hyperair, It's used to generate the API documentation.
<tedg> hyperair, Should ASSEMBLY_VERSION be "0.1"?
<hyperair> tedg: yes.
<hyperair> tedg: it should follow whatever's inside AssemblyInfo.cs
<hyperair> tedg: if you ever break ABI, then the "0.0" bit needs to be changed.
<tedg> hyperair, How about we just don't break ABI ;)
<hyperair> tedg: that's ideal, of course ;-)
<tedg> Okay, pushed the sed stuff.
 * hyperair fetches
<schmichael> Hi all, I'm a python web dev looking to make a fairly simple app that displays notifications popups and allows a user to take an action...
<schmichael> ...I was assuming the correct route to go is via appindicator and the existing messaging appindicator, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to hook everything up.
<schmichael> I'm looing at gwibber's source, but that's a bit daunting
<schmichael> hm, reading this now: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MessagingMenu#API
<tedg> schmichael, Well, it would depend on what you're representing.  Would it qualify as a "human-to-human" message?
<tedg> schmichael, That's all that should be in the messaging menu
<schmichael> hm, I suppose not necessarily
<schmichael> more like e-mail
<schmichael> where it's human-or-app to human recipient
<tedg> Well, as long as it's more like Twitter feeds, I think you're probably good.
<tedg> Where they can be both.
<hyperair> tedg: DLLPOLICY = policy.2.0.$(ASSEMBLY)
<hyperair> tedg: and add gacutil calls for the policy dll into (un)install-data-hook
<hyperair> then i think it should be good to go
<tedg> schmichael, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/libindicate/trunk/annotate/head:/examples/im-client.py
<schmichael> tedg: interesting. thanks
<schmichael> Just got my app to add menu items based on methods called via dbus, very excited :)
<schmichael> So I'm using appindicator currently for my tray icon. Is pynotify the preferred way to raise notifications from python?
<tedg> schmichael, Ah, cool.  You can use the appindicator python library if you want, that might make it easier.  It hides the dbus parts.
<tedg> schmichael, Yes, pynotify works.
<tedg> hyperair, I can't figure out how to get it to uninstall :(
<tedg> hyperair, Let me push what I have.
<hyperair> tedg: just copy paste whatever you had?
<tedg> hyperair, Sadly doesn't seem to work.
<tedg> hyperair, It doesn't seem to find the policy files.
<hyperair> hmm weird.
<hyperair> did it even install?
<hyperair> well let me pull and see
<tedg> Yeah, it installs.
<schmichael> tedg: hm, indicator.notify('foo') just gives me an error
<schmichael> Warning: IA__g_object_notify: object class `AppIndicator' has no property named `message'
<schmichael> where 'message' is what I pass to notify
<tedg> schmichael, The AppIndicator library isn't for notifications -- it's for putting icons in the panel.
<tedg> schmichael, And attaching menus for them.
<schmichael> ah, sorry
<schmichael> thought you had said I could use it for notifications too
<schmichael> k
<schmichael> will use pynotify then
<tedg> schmichael, You'll still want pynotify for the notifications.
<schmichael> thanks!
<tedg> np
<hyperair> tedg: er sorry, looks like it was supposed to be policy.$(ASSEMBLY_VERSION).appindicator-sharp.{config,dll}
<tedg> hyperair, Okay, cool.  Let me try that.
<hyperair> still doesn't get uninstalled.
<hyperair> hmmmm
<hyperair> tedg: aha. during the uninstall call, you need to give the assembly name, not the dll name.
<hyperair> tedg: DLLPOLICY has .dll stuck on
<tedg> hyperair, Ah, okay.
<tedg> hyperair, Okay, it distchecks now.  Can you pull and make sure it looks right?
<hyperair> okay
<hyperair> tedg: i think the policy.*.config file should also be installed to /usr/lib/cli/appindicator-sharp-0.1/
<hyperair> tedg: Failure adding assembly policy.0.1.appindicator-sharp.dll to the cache: The system cannot find resource policy.0.1.appindicator-sharp.config <-- this will happen when using the debian packaging without the .config file included, because the libraries are added into the GAC during a postinst script.
<hyperair> to get that message, i just deleted the .config file and tried adding the .dll
<tedg> hyperair, Okay, I added that to the TARGET
 * hyperair tests
<hyperair> okay, it's good =
<hyperair> =)
<tedg> hyperair, Cool.  Thanks!
<tedg> hyperair, No what do I need to do to the packaging?
<tedg> Now
<hyperair> rename the libappindicator0.0-cil package to libappindicator0.1-cil
<hyperair> also, change the .install file to not install to a separate location
<hyperair> currently it takes things installed in /usr/lib/cli/blahblah-0.1 and installs it itno /usr/lib/cli/blahblah-0.0
<tedg> Ah, okay.  Yes.
<hyperair> and then add the policy.whatever.dll to the .installcligac file
<tedg> hyperair, Hmm, I didn't do something right -- Tomboy still can't find it :(
<tedg> The packaging branch I'm using is here: lp:~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-application/ubuntu/
<tedg> The policy file got into the package and looks correct.
<tedg> I'm not sure what else to check.
<hyperair> did it get into the gac?
<hyperair> gacutil -l | grep appindicator
<tedg> appindicator-sharp, Version=0.1.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=bcae265d1c7ab4c2
<tedg> policy.0.1.appindicator-sharp, Version=0.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=bcae265d1c7ab4c2
<tedg> Seems like it should be in the gac as "appindictor-sharp", eh
<tedg> ?
<hyperair> tedg: is it not appindicator-sharp already?
<hyperair> tedg: can you give me tomboy's backtrace?
<tedg> hyperair, Well there's two lines.  One for appindicator-sharp and one for policy*.  It seems they should be appindicator-sharp.
<hyperair> no, it's correct that way.
<hyperair> appindicator-sharp is already appindicator-sharp
<hyperair> the policy one is registered and treated differently -- it provides the mapping from 0.0-0.1 => 0.1
<tedg> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/451763/
<hyperair> urgh, how weird.
<hyperair> hmm i just got an idea.
<hyperair> can you try changing these things: oldVersion="0.0.0.0-0.1.0.0" and newVersion="0.1.0.0"
<hyperair> seems that it might need the full version in the policy file after all.
<hyperair> tedg: ^
<tedg> hyperair, k, just a second
<hyperair> sure
<tedg> hyperair, Hmm, nope, that didn't help.
<hyperair> =\
<hyperair> did you regenerate the dll?
<tedg> Yeah, I rebuild the package.
<tedg> rebuilt
<hyperair> tedg: aha. the weird version that's stuck onto the policy.${VERSION}.appindicator-sharp.{config,dll} should be for the version of the assembly it's applying to (i.e. in order to map 0.0 => 0.1, it needs to ${VERSION} in this case needs to be 0.0)
<tedg> hyperair, Ah, okay.
<hyperair> sorry for leading you on a wild goose chase =(
<tedg> Let me try it.
<hyperair> it works this time with bce at least.
<hyperair> i mean banshe
<hyperair> Replaces: libappindicator0-cil (<= 0.0.19-0ubuntu4~)
<hyperair> er whoops
<hyperair> wait a sec.
<hyperair> tedg: i think the ~ is unnecessary.
<hyperair> it's generally used for >= relations to include backports of the version, or << to exclude backports of that particular version, but in the case of <=, it'll miss out on 0.0.19-0ubuntu4.
<hyperair> also i think the previous package name was libappindicator0.0-cil
<tedg> hyperair, Hmm, the change to 0.0 didn't seem to help :(
<tedg> I'll fix the version.
<hyperair> http://paste.debian.net/77952/
<hyperair> tedg: i did that ^^, and renamed the policy.0.1.blah.in
<tedg> hyperair, Hmm, I did the same...
<hyperair> weird.
<hyperair> try purging and trying again?
<hyperair> libappindicator0.1-cil should also Provides: libappindicator0.0-cil
<hyperair> i think.
<tedg> Ah, I was just about to ask that :)
<tedg> I think that might be the issue as I have a libappindicator0.0-cil installed on my system.
<tedg> Anyway, I need to run.  I try that later.  Thanks for your help hyperair!
#ayatana 2010-06-20
<shoonya> what package provides "ubuntumenuproxy.h" file ?
<shoonya> trying to compile appmenu-gtk
<kklimonda> !find ubuntumenuproxy.h
<ubot5> Package/file ubuntumenuproxy.h does not exist in lucid
<kklimonda> ah, it's from appmenu
#ayatana 2011-06-13
<hbons> hi, can anyone tell me what the default size for the appindicator icon is?
<hbons> and where do i install the symbolic versions?
<alhrath> Hi all! Small issue here : I want to force the use of the notification area insted of the indicator applet for my application. Actually it does at boot time, but if I quit/restart, it goes back in the wild land of the indicator, where tooltips are unknown ... Any idea of how to do that ? [ubuntu 11.04/GNOME 2.32.1/application written in python/tray defined with the gtk lib]
<Omega> o/ Daekdroom
<Daekdroom> Hello
<Omega> I haven't seen you this cycle :P
<hbons> alhrath: why do you want to force it?
<hbons> meh
<Daekdroom> Omega, This channel is in my autojoin.
<Daekdroom> Given my computer is on for about 8 hours a day, atleast...
<Daekdroom> (and that I never close IRC)
<Omega> I should have said spoken to you.
<Omega> (I'm also always here)
<JohanSJA> hi, could we create something like this in Ubuntu using existing technology? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I
<Omega> JohanSJA: what do you mean?
<JohanSJA> Omega, I am looking forward to build an application which would be heavily relied on touch interaction. So is there any tools for us to use to create such UX in Ubuntu?
<Omega> Yes! Look at utouch
<Omega> http://unity.ubuntu.com/projects/utouch/
<JohanSJA> Omega: How mature is the toolkit at current stage? Documentation? Support?
<Omega> https://launchpad.net/utouch
<Omega> I haven't worked with it on the development side.
<Omega> But you can get support for it, sure.
<Omega> They have an irc channel, mailing list, wiki
<Omega> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch
<JohanSJA> Omega: thanks for that
<oSoMoN> good morning
<JohanSJA> morning...
<andyrock> good morning
<andyrock> i need someone expert in nux... could you help me?
<JohanSJA> andyrock: i can't. perhaps someone else?
<andyrock> JohanSJA, unfortunately jaytaoko isn't around
<JohanSJA> andyrock: then you will just have to wait for him
<JohanSJA> :)
<ronoc> HarryHaaren, ping !
<ronoc> tis me
<cyphermox> tedg: for dbusmenu, I can find the about-to-show and show-to-user signals, but not so much some show/hide, could you please hint me where I should be looking?
<tedg> cyphermox, There's not a specific signal for it.  You'll need to use the generic event signal and match the names with the defines.  DBUSMENU_MENUITEM_EVENT_OPENED
<cyphermox> ok
<savid> Does anyone know why when I create a chrome application shortcut,  it doesn't show up as its own window in the unity panel?
<savid> It just shows up as another sub-window of chrome
#ayatana 2011-06-14
<didrocks> good morning
<MacSlow> hi there everyone
<oSoMoN> good morning
<didrocks> Kaleo: hey! how are you?
<Kaleo> didrocks: heya, good, and you?
<didrocks> Kaleo: I'm fine, thanks :)
<didrocks> Kaleo: so, I have some time today to look at a11y patch for Qt, just waiting to sync to not duplicate the work :)
<didrocks> did you start anything?
<Kaleo> didrocks: yeah, let's talk!
<andyrock> good morning
<didrocks> Kaleo: so, the new at-spi-qt, indeed, quite crashy still (without the needed Qt patch I guess). I'm a member now to push to the Qt experimental ppa, doing so
<Kaleo> didrocks: oki doki
<Kaleo> didrocks: shall we release Unity 2D in Oneiric today?
<didrocks> Kaleo: sure, the sooner the better as I won't be there for monitoring important issues, do you have an ETA if you have branches you particularly want to include?
<Kaleo> didrocks: just trunk as it is today is fine
<didrocks> Kaleo: ok, so merging it in the oneiric branch? you take care of that?
<Kaleo> didrocks: can do!
<didrocks> great, just ping me back :)
<Kaleo> didrocks: ok
<Kaleo> didrocks: hey, bzr merge lp:unity-2d into the oneiric branch worked without conflict
<Kaleo> didrocks: the oneiric branch is now up to date: lp:unity-2d/4.0
<didrocks> Kaleo: excellent, nice! I will write a script shortly to get the changelog and then, ready to go! :)
<didrocks> just taking a short break first :)
<Kaleo> didrocks: the milestone is 3.8.8
<Kaleo> didrocks: let me fix the changelog to reflect that
<didrocks> ok :)
<Kaleo> didrocks: done
<didrocks> Kaleo: ok, will ping you back once tested and uploaded
<coz_> good day
<Kaleo> didrocks: thanks
<Kaleo> didrocks: I am setting up a daily build for Oneiric in the PPA now
<didrocks> excellent
<didrocks> Kaleo: does https://launchpad.net/unity-2d/+milestone/3.8.8 have all bugs from this release?
<didrocks> if so, I can just reuse my script for unity to close your bugs and generate the changelog :)
<Kaleo> didrocks: yes it does
<Kaleo> didrocks: does it mark the bugs as fix released?
<Kaleo> didrocks: (I have a script for that)
<didrocks> Kaleo: yeah, and it closes the milestone
<Kaleo> didrocks: awesome
<Kaleo> didrocks: one less script to run for me :)
<didrocks> also, if you have bugs not "fix committed" there, it can report it to the next milestone
<Kaleo> didrocks: that is fantastic
<didrocks> Kaleo: heh, less code, better life :)
<Kaleo> didrocks: I take note so that next time I don't move bugs manually
<didrocks> Kaleo: yeah, let the script do the work :)
<didrocks> Kaleo: I have explained that in the "release mode" of the unify bug mail I sent to you if you are interested into the details
<didrocks> also, it set the right package for each fixes (but you mainly have one only anyway)
<Kaleo> didrocks: I read it but my brain cannot hold all the information of such a long mail :)
<didrocks> heh, indeed ;)
<hicham> hi didrocks
<Kaleo> didrocks: email to fregl (and you) sent
<didrocks> hey hicham
<didrocks> Kaleo: excellent, thanks :)
<hicham> didrocks: no luck with gconf profile issue, and smspilla1 seems to be busy
<didrocks> I don't exactly remembering the issue you had and we don't have in ubuntu, but I think you will need compiz-dev expertise there.
<hicham> didrocks: I install a gconf schemas containing the default unity profile, and it still fails
<hicham> didrocks: when compiz starts, it states that the profile is unity, and that the backend is gconf
<hicham> didrocks: but it still loads the defaults
<hicham> didrocks: could it be that the plugins that I put in unity profile do have some conflicting keybindings ?
<didrocks> hicham: no, it doesn't do any check there
<didrocks> hicham: I fixed a bunch of things for profile loading when working on it several month ago, but all is upstream
<didrocks> if you still have issues I think you'll have to dig into the code
<hicham> didrocks: were these all in compizconfig-backend-gconf ?
<didrocks> hicham: I would say in libcompizconfig and the gconf backend
<didrocks> Kaleo: pushing unity-2d, works well! (even if you can't spell my name in an email :p)
<Kaleo> didrocks: darn, what was i thinking!
<Kaleo> didrocks: thanks for unity 2D
<didrocks> Kaleo: yw ;)
<savid> Hi, I'm curious if anyone's brought this up yet.  I think it's odd that when I have a nautilus window open,  the unity launcher shows it as an instance of "Home Folder".   This seems a bit unintuitive to me.
<savid> That is, if I'm a novice user, and I want to switch back to a folder I had opened,  my first instinct is not to click on "Home Folder".
<tedg> achiang, It just doesn't show the calendar?
<achiang> tedg: correct
<achiang> tedg: i don't have any evo stuff installed, and i do not get the calendar, even after applying the patch in the bug
<tedg> achiang, Install some evo stuff, it's good for you ;-)
<tedg> achiang, Let me look real quick.
<tedg> achiang, Do you have the show_calendar setting set to true?
<achiang> humm...
 * achiang checks gconf
<tedg> achiang, Check dconf or go to Time & Date Settings on the menu.
<achiang> tedg: i should probably tell you, i just cherry-picked the patch for lucid
<tedg> achiang, Oh, I don't know that'll work... datetime changed a lot for Natty.
<achiang> tedg: i actually don't see a gconf key for indicator-datetime
<tedg> achiang, You'll need to look in dconf-editor
<tedg> I'm not sure if that key existed in Lucid though.
<tedg> That was like, forever ago :-)
<achiang> tedg: fair enough
<Kaleo> didrocks: the daily build is now in place and working
<didrocks> Kaleo: excellent news! thanks
<hicham> did you remove gnome-panel from the default image ?
<czajkowski> Aloha, does anyone know if there is a wordpress Ubuntu theme ?
<lamalex> HarryHaaren, hey
<m4n1sh> can anyone tell if this bug is related to compiz, unity or theme? http://i.imgur.com/yRZDg.png
<m4n1sh> I took the screenshot by using gnome-screenshot
<m4n1sh> by 5 sec delay
#ayatana 2011-06-15
<thumper> man this channel is quiet in NZ timezones
<Nafai> it seems most active during the European timezones
<Nafai> which if I'm awake for is a problem :)
<TheMuso> thumper: Yeah its somewhat similar for those of us on the desktop team in Australia.
<thumper> Nafai: where are you?
<Nafai> Utah, USA
<didrocks> good morning
<hypodermia> hey, guys. just wondering. i have a changeset for lp:ubuntu/compiz i'd really like to push somewhere so's i could propose it for fixing a bug. the instructions here kinda fall apart once we get to the pushing part: http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/#coding nor do i see anywhere to propose fixes. any pointers what i'm missing?
<hypodermia> or to put this more simply, how might i propose a fix for a bug on launchpad?
<hypodermia> you know, guys, i think those instructions might just be missing a tilde. i might have it figured out now. just taking a wild guess.
<RAOF> hypodermia: I'm not familiar with those instructions, but the general rule is âpush a branch to launchpad, propose that branch for merging into your target branchâ.
<RAOF> Aha, yes.
<hypodermia> RAOF: i just needed the syntax to push a branch to launchpad, and i happened to stumble over that. perhaps someone should mention to jono that it has a typo?
<RAOF> It is missing a ~.  lp:~jonobacon/unity/fix-for-whatever would work.
<hypodermia> whenever he wakes up ofc
<hypodermia> i'm writing up the proposal already, thanks for the help, RAOF
<hypodermia> i think i screwed up something anyway. ah well. someone will yell at me in the morning i hope.
<oSoMoN> good morning
<MacSlow> good morning everybody
<ronoc> HarryHaaren, skype ?
<Andy80> hi all
<Andy80> Kaleo: about #750303 I cannot find much documentation :\ do you have any other example of schema that uses list so I can try to understand what's wrong?
<Kaleo> Andy80: let me look
<Kaleo> Andy80: I think it's like:
<Kaleo> <list_type>string</list_type>
<Kaleo> Andy80: I commented on the MR
<Andy80> thanks :)
<Andy80> Kaleo: I'm probably messing with bzr... the diff is empty even if I've pushed....
<Andy80> Kaleo: ok, nope... I didn't add the new folder :P
<jfi> tedg, Hello, is there an easy way to detect that there is not application indicator support at runtime?
<tedg> jfi, You can look to see if the name is on dbus.  But, if you're using libappindicator you can just look at the fallback signals.  Or subclass and override the fallback handlers.
<jfi> tedg, I am using the libappindicator (in C). Ok, so I set a fct to (AppIndicatorClass.fallback) if called there is no runtime support, right?
<tedg> jfi, Correct
<jfi> tedg, thanks for your help!
<tedg> jfi, If for some reason support is added (someone adds an applet for instance) unfallback will be called.
<Kaleo> Andy80: :)
<andyrock> hi all
<andyrock> jcastro, ping
<jcastro> andyrock: hi!
<andyrock> jcastro, today is the unity contributor meeting right?
<jcastro> yeah so hey
<jcastro> I was wondering
<jcastro> what time is 0000UTC for you
<jcastro> isn't that like 1:30am? is that really a good time?
<andyrock> I'd forgotten it1!
<jcastro> I'm just saying, we can have it in a time that isn't so brutal for you
<jcastro> (sometime today)
<andyrock> now is fine for me!
<jcastro> yeah but I need to announce it, etc.
<jcastro> try to give people a heads up
<andyrock> i know...
<andyrock> what time we said last time?
<jcastro> 0000UTC
<jcastro> but I haven't announced it yet
<andyrock> 00:00 UTC -> 02:00 Italy! Too late (or to early! :) )
<andyrock> jcastro, maybe we can do a survey! :) About the day and about the hours (expressed in UTC)
<andyrock> jcastro, italian loco team uses something like that ;)
<andyrock> jcastro, http://www.doodle.com/ is the best!
<jcastro> andyrock: ok, so for today let's pick a sane time
<jcastro> and then we can adjust it
<Kaleo> Andy80: you know bzr mv?
<jcastro> what time would be good for you later today?
<Kaleo> Andy80: it's much nicer than doing bzr add/bzr rm
<andyrock> jcastro, now in italy it is 4:40pm... so until 8:00pm it is good for me!
<Andy80> Kaleo: sorry didn't remember that command :\ I used Nautilus to move the file :P
<Andy80> Kaleo: then I added the folder using bzr add
<andyrock> jcastro, in other words: now, between an hours, between two hours
<Kaleo> Andy80: yep
<jcastro> andyrock: ok check my time zone conversion, 1800UTC?
<andyrock> jcastro, 1800UTC -> 2000 Italy... OK!
<andyrock> jcastro, which channel we use? #ayatana?
<jcastro> yep, in here
<jcastro> sending the mail now
<andyrock> jcastro, hoping to be in many ;)
<lamalex> HarryHaaren, i just added you to unity-bugs
<lamalex> can you try triaging a bug to see if it's all good?
<HarryHaaren> I can mark them as "confirmed" & that no problem, I'm not able to change the priority though.
<lamalex> HarryHaaren, even now after being added to unity bugs?
<HarryHaaren> yup. There should be the little pencil "edit" beside the "Undecided" value right?
<Kaleo> Andy80: approved!
<Kaleo> Andy80: it's going to be merged automatically
<Kaleo> Andy80: awesome work!
<czajkowski> HarryHaaren: Aloha and welcome :D
<Andy80> Kaleo: thanks to you for the opportunity :)
<lamalex> HarryHaaren, nice work on the bugs!
<HarryHaaren> Had a bit of time in the morning :)
<lamalex> API, your contract with us is finished right?
<API> well, the second one is finished
<API> but a third one is really likely,
<API> hypothetically, I would start to work again 4th July, more or less
<lamalex> can you tell me if this is correct, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/772573
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 772573 in unity (Ubuntu) "[a11y] Unity launcher buttons are not Actionable" [Undecided,New]
<Nafai> jcastro: So 1800 UTC is 1200 Mountain time?
<jcastro> 11 I think?
<jcastro> whatever 1.5 hours from now is
<Nafai> 11
<jcastro> Nafai: I suspect we might need to have a euro version and an ameri-version
<jcastro> but for now I am content with just having one
<Nafai> cool, will work fine, I can watch over the meeting while taking care of work stuffs
<lamalex> API, i really just want to know if launcher buttons /should/ implement actionable
<API> lamalex, yes that would be (in theory) easy, so no reason to not implement it
<lamalex> thanks
<API> as I said, almost for sure, I will back to work on those things, so this is one of the bugs I need to solve
<Jon_N|A> Hello there :) I'm not a Unity developer but, I want to know how internet IRC dev meetings work so I can run a meeting of my own on IRC in the future. This is my first time on a  meeting. I won't interrupt anyone during the meeting. Can I stay here?
<kennydude> Hi, i'm stuck commiting a fix for unity
<kennydude> Have i missed the meeting?
<jcastro> Hi everyone
<jcastro> (sorry I am late, I had a problem with the condo and had to go outside)
<jcastro> who's here for the Unity Development meeting?
<kennydude> jcastro: I'm stuck commiting a fix to unity-2d. can you help me?
<jcastro> I can probably find someone who can help
<andyrock> jcastro, hi
<jcastro> Kaleo: you about?
<kennydude> jcastro: Cool! :D
<jcastro> andyrock: hi, sorry I am late, the telephone pole outside my place blew up and I lost power and there was a fire. (It's all set now though)
<jcastro> kennydude: yeah hang tight for a bit, Kaleo's the 2d guy
<jcastro> but at the end of the meeting we can go into detail about your problem
<kennydude> jcastro: thanks :)
<andyrock> jcastro, there is still half an hour!
<jcastro> this won't take long, I have an agenda
<jcastro> andyrock: oh? Is my arithmetic bad again?
<andyrock> jcastro, i don't kwow... i use an online time converter... ;)
<andyrock> jcastro, look here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html
<jcastro> oh whew, so I'm not late. :)
<jcastro> I'm early, I miscalculated the first time
<jcastro> kennydude: ok, since we have some time why not just start explaining your problem
<jcastro> andyrock: here's the agenda if you wanna add anything: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/WeeklyMeeting
<kennydude> jcastro: Someone on Ask Ubuntu helped me! I fixed this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/790319
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 790319 in unity-2d "Some community lenses do not display anything - UnityHorizontalRenderer not implemented" [High,In progress]
<jcastro> ok
<jcastro> then what?
<jcastro> do you get an error or something?
<andyrock> jcastro, freelance contributors can help each other, testing each other work"
<kennydude> jcastro: how can I file a bug for this page: http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/ ?
<jcastro> I can fix it on the spot
<andyrock> jcastro, for example i'm working with external devices, etc. and i need testing because there is a lot of pointer,etc
<andyrock> *there are
<jcastro> andyrock: *nod*
<kennydude> jcastro: Where it says on "push" it has an error that confused me. It says "bzr push lp:<yourusername>" and it should be "bzr push lp:~<yourusername>"
<jcastro> hi marcobiscaro2112!
<jcastro> kennydude: ok fixed!
<kennydude> Thanks!
<jcastro> I added it to the example too
<kennydude> Yeah :)
<jcastro> I have a work item to improve this page
<jcastro> it's too long IMO
<crazedpsyc> did I miss the meeting?
<jcastro> nope
<jcastro> 15 minutes!
<crazedpsyc> Ok, thanks :)
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/WeeklyMeeting
<jcastro> this will be the agenda
<jcastro> feel free to add anything
<jcastro> and it'd be great if you could add your name and launchpad nick under attendees
<crazedpsyc> Oh, sure
<kennydude> Thanks very much jcastro, hopefully i'll contribute again someday :)
<andyrock> i am going to eat something, be right back
<Trevinho> Hey guys...
<jcastro> Hi Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi jcastro
<Trevinho> Sorry if lately my activity is low but my exams are pressing me! :(
<jcastro> no worries, we won't take too much time!
<jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/WeeklyMeeting
<jcastro> here's the agenda
<Trevinho> now I've it ;)
<jcastro> Feel free to add yourself there if you want
<jcastro> Ok so I'll start this thing
<Trevinho> done
<jcastro> My name is Jorge Castro and my job is to make sure Unity contributors are happy and aren't stuck by dumb things like bad docs
<jcastro> and generally help you do whatever it is you want to do in Unity
<jcastro> So first I'd like to just say that this is the first meeting, so I'd like to do roundtable of introductions
<jcastro> and then I'd like to point out some of the targets for 11.04 and 11.10
<jcastro> and then really after that we can swap tips or do whatever it is that you guys feel we should talk about
<jcastro> Trevinho: ok so you can start, introduce yourself!
<andyrock> Trevinho is too slow! :)
<Trevinho> My name is Marco Trevisan, I've been a contributor of the natty circle fixing some bugs for Unity, BAMF, libindicators, libappindicators and related things
<Trevinho> I've joined the UDS in Budapest and I simply love improve the ubuntu desktop experience
<Trevinho> so... now the quick andyrock can continue! ;P
 * Andy80 is here just for a couple of minutes, but I'll read logs later, sorry :\
<jcastro> Andy80: it's ok we'll have logs
<jcastro> introduce yourself though!
<jcastro> crazedpsyc: you too!
<cdbs> Is the meeting ongoing?
<cdbs> Sorry but I just joined the channel
<jcastro> yeah we just started, introduce yourselves
<andyrock> My name is Andrea Azzarone and i am a Unity contributor... With Trevinho and Andy80, i am one of the `Italian Stallions` ;)
<jcastro> and then we'll hit the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/WeeklyMeeting
<cdbs> jcastro: Do contractors come under the "contributor" category? :D Of course not :)
<Andy80> My name is Andrea Grandi, I've started contributing to Unity-2D right after Budapest UDS. I come from Qt programming and experience I've done in Maemo/MeeGo community. I think Unity-2D is just perfect for me to contribute. I've currently fixed two bugs and they've already been merged in the main trunk. I'm now working to a third one! Proud to be one of the "Italian Stallions" ;)
<andyrock> i attended the UDS in Budapest...
<jcastro> cdbs: sure, we love anyone who works on unity. :)
<cdbs> I'm Bilal Akhtar, 15, contributed to the places in the Natty cycle, and in Oneiric, I'm working on nux, and unity itself as well. Currently working on a branch which is actually a full port of Unity to GTK3
<jcastro> awesome, anyone else?
<cdbs> Outside Unity, I'm an Ubuntu MOTU, LoCo team contact, school student :( , Android app developer, Debian contributor
<andyrock> marcobiscaro2112, join us!
<jcastro> crazedpsyc: what to introduce yourself?
<davidcalle> I'm David CallÃ©, I'm not an Unity contributor but I'm the Books Lens project leader. I know some Python, currently learning Vala and I'd love to give a hand.
<crazedpsyc> jcastro: Sure, I was out getting food earlier ;)
<jcastro> davidcalle: Writing lenses is also a Unity contribution. :)
<jcastro> but awesome, glad you could make it
<crazedpsyc> Howdy everybody, I am Michael Smith... I haven't done much for Unity yet, just reporting bugs, because I don't know any C! (python fan) However, I do wish to contribute to other python projects (like Lernid) if I can :)
<jcastro> ok great, so I'll go over some stuff while you guys chow down.
<crazedpsyc> Cool :)
<jcastro> So right now we have 2 sets of bugs
 * hyperair considers dehilighting chow
<jcastro> the first is the bitesize bugs, which are the same "intro" level bugs
<jcastro> these are in the topic
<jcastro> The list - http://goo.gl/tiheb
<jcastro> so basically this bug is what we consider the nice list of for people to get their feet wet
<jcastro> the second, newer list is what I call the backlog list.
<jcastro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~unity-community-hackers
<jcastro> the backlog list is things that the design team consider "real nice fixes that would make unity better for people"
<jcastro> they come from things like the user testing stuff they do
<jcastro> and just general design feedback from the community
<jcastro> (so it will likely grow and shrink)
<jcastro> the DX team at canonical took a bunch of those bugs and are committed to fix them
<jcastro> they have a "backlog" tag
<jcastro> the rest I've assigned to the ~unity-community-hackers team
<jcastro> which basically means "this one is up for  grabs"
<jcastro> there were a total of 60 backlog bugs, I've assigned 29 to the team, and then DX can have the rest. :)
<jcastro> so, a person can work on three kinds of bugs. Bitesizers, these backlog ones, and of course, you can grab any of the bugs for 11.04 and fix those.
 * Trevinho informs: that's the link for all the tagged links: http://go.3v1n0.net/kWPDS0
<jcastro> ok so the "trick" to do this is to get the balance right
<jcastro> some of the backlog bugs are features, but at the same time, fixing a bug in what we're shipping in 11.04 is also important
<jcastro> so really it's up to you on what you want to do
<jcastro> you might want to do some bug fixes, and then mix it up and do a feature one for 11.10, then go back to fixing bugs, whatever floats your boat.
<jcastro> Any questions so far?
<andyrock> jcastro, sure
<andyrock> jcastro, can i assing a  ~unity-community-hackers bug to me?
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> the team is basically the "this is our shared pile"
<andyrock> jcastro, otherwise we can have a "race condition"
<jcastro> you assign it to yourself, fix it, and then submit for merge
<jcastro> if you decide "whoa this is too hard, just reassign it back to the hackers team
<andyrock> jcastro, i have already a merge proposal for a ~unity-community-hackers bug
<jcastro> hey alright!
<jcastro> ok one other thing, the DX team is doing merge reviews much faster now
<jcastro> you should at least be getting a response within a day, and they try to clean the entire thing up every monday
<andyrock> jcastro, it was tagged as a bitesize bug... but it was not! and DBO can confirm ;)
<jcastro> but if it's over say, 2 days and you're not getting a response just ping me to bother them
<marcobiscaro2112> this is great! :P
<jcastro> andyrock: he probably tagged it to trick you. :)
<jcastro> "this one is easy"
<DBO> andyrock, which bug?
<jcastro> also most of the backlog bugs should have that template now
<jcastro> where DBO explains what the problem is in more detail
<jcastro> this should hopefully help you figure it out instead of flailing trying to figure out that part of the code
<jcastro> Any other questions?
<andyrock> DBO, you have short memory! :)
<andyrock> DBO, https://code.launchpad.net/~andyrock/unity/fix-767075/+merge/63852
<Trevinho> jcastro: if you can ping dbo abou the mail I sent him about BAMF... :)
<Trevinho> oh... I didn't see you here! :)
 * cdbs sleeps, its midnight here
<cdbs> sorry for that
<andyrock> Trevinho, let DBO work!
<DBO> andyrock, yes okay I thought we meant that bug
<jcastro> goodnight cdbs
<jcastro> ah, this brings up a good point
<jcastro> from now on, when dealing with bugs it's either in the bug report, or on ayatana-dev
<jcastro> no more mailing DBO directly because we know he won't read it
<Andy80> jcastro, Trevinho last think and I've to go: I created this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity-2D/Bitesize so we have bitesize bugs for Unity-2D too ;)
<jcastro> if you send it to ayatana-dev then at least someone else might be able to help
<DBO> andyrock, did the last-geo thing ever get merged?
<DBO> i dont see it in any of the log, which I was waiting on
<jcastro> Andy80: oh nice, good point, I need to add that to the weekly report, awesome, thanks for that,
<andyrock> DBO, i add it to my branch! but it is not merged in trunk!
<andyrock> DBO, you are so busied, so don't worry :)
<DBO> andyrock, ah you added it to your branch with no commit log! :P
<jcastro> ah
<DBO> andyrock, merging!
<jcastro> so already we're finding and fixing problems
<andyrock> DBO, i know... becuase i am stupid!
<jcastro> I knew this meeting was a good idea!
<jcastro> ok I've got one last thing
<jcastro> from UDS we said we'd like to see you guys doing merge reviews and whatnot
<jcastro> andyrock: I saw you marked yours as DONE, but I can't find where that is
<andyrock> jcastro, i did it ;) just a moment
<andyrock> jcastro, a marcobiscaro2112 merge proposal if i am not wrong
<marcobiscaro2112> yep!
<andyrock> jcastro, https://code.launchpad.net/~marcobiscaro2112/unity/fixes-724045/+merge/63461
<DBO> andyrock, merged :)
<Trevinho> I didn't yet :P
<DBO> ah crap, late for a meeting
<DBO> again
<DBO> I rock
<andyrock> marcobiscaro2112, i know... gmail is so fast ;)
<andyrock> sorry DBO ^^^
<jcastro> andyrock: nice work!
<DBO> andyrock, dude, never be sorry
<DBO> excellent work!
<DBO> much love
<DBO> Im just an idiot
<jcastro> ok so if you guys can keep doing a peer review on each other's proposals then that should work
<jcastro> ok so anyone have a particular bug they'd like to target this week? Or are you guys just going down a particular list?
<andyrock> DBO, if you are an idiot, i am santa claus ;)
<andyrock> jcastro, i have to study but i am working on this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/713423
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 713423 in unity (Ubuntu) "Unity launcher gets cluttered when having multiple partitions and/or external volumes attached" [Medium,Confirmed]
<lamalex> hi hi
<andyrock> jcastro, njpatel gave me permission
<jcastro> rock and roll. Ok so unless anyone has any burning issues, I won't keep you from your studies.
<jcastro> I don't want you guys to flunk out of college like DBO
<Trevinho> lol :D
<jcastro> andyrock: nice work on that review, that's gold!
<Trevinho> by the way about the chromium webapps issue...
<andyrock> jcastro, i have a branch but i'am not sure if there is no memory leak problem :(
<jcastro> which one?
<Trevinho> you (jcastro) changed some basic informations, that I had no time (yet) to study
<Trevinho> but
<Trevinho> (this I meant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/692462)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 692462 in unity "unity confused with chromium web apps" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<jcastro> yeah
<Trevinho> about the BAMF thing, I guess that the previous implementation (fix) could be easily re-used
<jcastro> yeah but he doesn't want that
<andyrock> jcastro, btw i don't study to the college... just high school :(
<jcastro> because he'd have to redo it at some point
<jcastro> andyrock: it's ok, DBO went to a glorified high school
<jcastro> and I guess he turned out OK
<Trevinho> I didn't catch the problem...
<jcastro> Trevinho: let's do this, post it to the mailing list.
<jcastro> and we can have him explain it better
<andyrock> DBO, you have not finisched high school?
<jcastro> andyrock: he did, I am just making fun of him.
<andyrock> jcastro, ah ok ;)
<DBO> It was hard, Ms. Wormwood kept making me redo my report on bats
<Trevinho> I mean, the previous implementation could suffer of crashes due to double possible WM_CLASS duplication, but it won't happen using few workarounds
<jcastro> from reading the bug report it seems chromium upstream is also confused
<jcastro> DBO: after your meeting can you check out the chromium webapp bug and clarify?
<DBO> jcastro, yes
<Trevinho> DBO: It would be cool if you'd look at my mail too... :P
<Trevinho> the fact is that chromium is already doing everything it (easily) can do to fix this...
<Trevinho> Cause chromium currently uses the same pid, for all its windows
<Trevinho> so the only way to discern them is to use a different WM_CLASS
<jcastro> (unless there are any other agenda items, we can officially end the meeting and DBOvinho can talk about this bug)
<Trevinho> then associating to the couple (WM_CLASS,desktop_file_path) an application should be fine
<andyrock> jcastro, just a question
<crazed_empathy> and another question ;)
<crazed_empathy> 1. Is there a 'contributer list' anywhere of all the Ubuntu components, and what languages they are written in? That would be so awesome :)
<andyrock> if anyone wants to contribute, but he/she cannot write code, he/she can help testing our branch!
<andyrock> someone is available?
<crazed_empathy> That was my second question: Is there some amazing program that automatically installs whatever needs testing? :D I love testing nightlies/alphas/betas of everything, but it is just so inconvenient to trudge around on launchpad, pick out a project, bzr branch it, and then compile it.
<Trevinho> crazed_empathy: an "unity map" should be done (by neil if I recall correctly)... It should show all the projects, how they are related and how they are written.
<Trevinho> crazed_empathy: I guess that there's nothing automatized
<crazed_empathy> Hmmm... ok
<Trevinho> however when configuring your software to compile it you should be easily informed about the missing component
<Trevinho> so... Just bzr branch for it.
<crazed_empathy> Oh, I know, I just mean I want to test *EVERYTHING* in the entire world of launchpad! ;) or... at least automatically upgrade everything I already have :)
<jcastro> crazed_empathy: we'll have a nightly ppa later in the cycle
<crazed_empathy> for what?
<jcastro> right now they're kind of busted and no one's bothered to fix it yet since it's really just bug fixes going in
<andyrock> crazed_empathy,  unity daily build
<jcastro> for unity itself
<crazed_empathy> Oh, cool
<crazed_empathy> But how about all the other major components? eg. I just upgraded to ayatana-scrollbars 2.0
<jcastro> there is also really no diagram of what components/code stuff is in, waiting on that
<jcastro> but it's basically, unity,compiz, and nux are the three main parts
<jcastro> unity and compiz are c++, unity 2d is c++ in Qt
<jcastro> no idea what nux is, mostly Jay just handles that
<crazed_empathy> Yes, but those are the *Major* components... I just meant the major ones... or something like that ;)
<andyrock> jcastro, unity is a mix of c and c++ :P
<andyrock> jcastro, since **mm wrapper sucks :(
<crazed_empathy> All C is Greek to me...
 * andyrock wrappers suck
<jcastro> all of it is greek to me
<crazed_empathy> :D
<jcastro> we should run it through one of those "percentage of each language" measuring graph things
<Trevinho> andyrock: unity should go to pure C++... According to Ayatana-dev
<andyrock> jcastro, i know! but glibwrapper is just a workaround
<andyrock> Trevinho, ^^^
<lamalex> would be nice, except interfacing with gobject is pretty necessary
<crazed_empathy> Unity should be completely re-written in python, with pygi! Who wants to do it?? ;)
<andyrock> the problem is that glibmm development is slower than glib one
<andyrock> so they need to use glib lib
<andyrock> but memory managament is too confusing
<lamalex> it's not that it's confusing it just takes diligence
<lamalex> and raises the bar for contributing
<Trevinho> crazed_empathy: I wouldn't do that.... It's too slow
<lamalex> Trevinho, pretty sure that was a joke note the winky face :P
<Trevinho> Ah, ok :D
<Trevinho> however I guess that lib*mm could gain also some GI improvements in the future...
<crazed_empathy> Trevinho: Actually... it is faster so far... especially because i'm not doing the fancy widgets
<crazed_empathy> :D
<Trevinho> I would have preferred vala actually, but I can accept that it would be used just on libraries! :)
<crazed_empathy> Vala is nice too... i've been learning that recently :)
<lamalex> let's get back on topic
<crazedpsyc> Yes. what topic?
<andyrock> lamalex, indeed
<andyrock> another thing, i need thumper help support for using glibwrapper rightly and for google style ;)
<crazedpsyc> lamalex: <whisper>That wasn't *entirely* a joke, btw... (http://strenua.github.com/Melia/screenshots/melia-dash-deskmode.png)</whisper> ;)
<Nafai> Sorry I've missed the meeting guys
<crazedpsyc> Hi Nafai :)
<crazedpsyc> Nafai: logs already up here: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/15/%23ayatana.html :)
<Nafai> thanks!
<crazedpsyc> So when is the next Ubuntu App Developer Week? I see the wiki hasn't been updated... ;)
<andyrock> i have to go now! hi all :)
<thumper> morning
<thumper> jcastro: ping
<thumper> hmm... east coast is getting late
#ayatana 2011-06-16
<smashed> hello? is anybody there to assist with ubuntu?
<smashed> ??
<smashed> what's the point of this irc chat? nobodyis here to assist?
<smashed> whats a fucking joke, no wonder nobody uses linux, tt
<andyrock> good morning!
<oSoMoN> good morning
<andyrock> thumper, ping
<thumper> hey
<andyrock> thumper, can i make a question about glibwrapper?
<thumper> shoot
<andyrock> glib::Object<GMount> mount = g_device... etc. etc. doens't work
<andyrock> i know that constructor is explicit
<andyrock> but also
<andyrock> glib:Object<Gmount> mount; mount = etc. etc. doesn't work
<thumper> glib::Object<GMount> mount(g_device..);
<thumper> no... assignment doesn't at the moment.  Could fix that though
<thumper> I was looking at it today
<andyrock> I did the same thing...
<thumper> It is simple to fix
<andyrock> overloading = doesnt'return anything...
<thumper> part of the thing is...
<thumper> if you override assignment, you should override the copy constructor too
<thumper> and I was going for the simplest possible wrapper
<thumper> we could tweak though
<andyrock> ok... i use glib::Object<GMount> mount(g_device..); for the moment ;)
<thumper> yep, that'll work
<andyrock> i know, i already use it... bye bye g_object_unref ;)
 * thumper has to get kids into bed 
<thumper> \o/
<tedg> jaytaoko, DBO, http://www.blender.org/news/article/blender-foundation-at-siggraph/
<jaytaoko> tedg: thanks
<tedg> jaytaoko, If they have cool hand outs, I expect you to bring me one ;-)
<jaytaoko> tedg: promise!
<hicham> jaytaoko: is it possible to unbundle tinyxml from nux ?
<jaytaoko> hicham: does tinyxml ships with Ubuntu by default?
<jaytaoko> hicham: if so, then yes, I will remove it
<jaytaoko> hicham: or remove it and find another alternative
<jaytaoko> hicham: actually, I am not sure tinyxml is used anymore in Nux, I will verify that...
<hicham> jaytaoko: I think it is packaged in most distros
<jaytaoko> hicham: in anycase, I have wanted to remove it since we started because that is not the way we should use tinyxml... it was a convenience for me at one point but it isn't right to use it that way.
<hicham> jaytaoko: so it will be removed in next nux release ?
<jaytaoko> hicham: if we don't use it, I will try and remove it as soon as possible. But if we do use it, I have to make sure that is is in Ubuntu by default... So maybe in a week it will be removed if it all goes well.
<hicham> jaytaoko: thanks
<hicham> jaytaoko: there also a lot of typos in doxygen doc btw
<jaytaoko> hicham: in Nux's doyxgen doc? Can you point me to some of them?
<hicham> jaytaoko: these are some of these http://fpaste.org/QyHp/
<jaytaoko> hicham: thanks, can you submit a branch with your fixes?
<hicham> jaytaoko: ok, once I spot them all :)
<hicham> jaytaoko: gcc46 build fix isn't merged yet into nux ?
<jaytaoko> hicham:  are you referring to this: https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/nux/nux.dont_pass_pointers_to_temporaries/+merge/64218
<hicham> jaytaoko: yes, thanks
<jaytaoko> hicham: I will have it merged shortly
<Ian_Corne> Hello, I'm running the latest 11.10 updated ubuntu, and I get thrown into ubuntu2D, evntho I have the nvidia driver
<Ian_Corne> glxinfo however does give an error: Error: couldn't find RGB GLX visual or fbconfig
<Zhenech> tedg, copyright assignment for spelling fixes? canonical must be kidding (i would not see such a patch as copyrightable anyways)
<tedg> Zhenech, We currently don't have a policy on things that are not "legally significant" as the FSF puts it.  I'm working on getting us one, but we don't have one today.
<andyrock> hi all!
<Zhenech> tedg, meh, hurry! :)
<tedg> Zhenech, heh
<tedg> kenvandine, Do you have packaging that builds ido with a gtk3 package?
<tedg> kenvandine, I can't seem to find any.
<kenvandine> no i don'
<kenvandine> t
<kenvandine> but i just finish overlay-scrollbars
<tedg> Hmm, okay.  mterry's date-time patch needs the build env. stuff from it.
<kenvandine> humm
<tedg> I think I should be able to verify with GTK 2, let me check.
<kenvandine> tedg, getting that theme shim today?
<tedg> kenvandine, No probably not, trying to get all the indicators released.
<kenvandine> ok... eta on those?
<tedg> kenvandine, Would you prefer me work there first?  I figured the indicators were more an issue for you.
<kenvandine> nah
<kenvandine> indicators should be first
<kenvandine> the shim is a new package, so more work and all
<tedg> Heh, I figured the dual builds were more work ;-)
<kenvandine> true
<kenvandine> i just finished that for the scrollbars... i hate that!
<tedg> That's why I wanted you to do it as far away from when I have to see you in person as possible.
<kenvandine> haha
<kenvandine> it does make me grumpy
<kenvandine> however, getting releases at the end of the day makes me grumpy too :)
<kenvandine> njpatel, http://ubuntuone.com/p/zZR/
<kenvandine> latest and greatest :)
<njpatel> kenvandine, nice!
<kenvandine> jcastro, i am not getting your IM
<kenvandine> jcastro, my empathy is pegging the cpu, like pitti mentioned earlier :/
<jcastro> kenvandine: I was asking about how far along it is until ready for consumption
<kenvandine> i'll have it in oneiric before we leave the rally
<kenvandine> hopefully before we get to the rally
<jcastro> woo!
<kenvandine> jcastro, i have to say, it is very nice having more than 50 posts in the stream at a time
<kenvandine> looking at the old client frustrates me now... i follow enough people that my full feed in the old client spans the past 35 minutes
<kenvandine> now i can waste so much more time reading all those posts i just missed before
#ayatana 2011-06-17
<jo-erlend> where can I find documentation for writing appindicators in Python?
<MacSlow> good morning everybody
<jahkop> What do you think about this? http://www.whatdoestheinternetthink.net/index.php?s=ubuntu+unity&st=all
<vish> mpt: hi, seen bug 785571 ? if we have changed that maybe we need to update Â» <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoundMenu#A.2BIBw-Sound_Preferences.2BICYgHQAvIBw-Sound_Settings.2BICYgHQ-> ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 785571 in The Sound Menu ""Sound Preferences..." should be "Sound Settings"" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/785571
<dbarth> jaytaoko: ping? when you wake up, do you have the bug ref. for the vsync problem? fta is looking for it
<ronoc> HarryHaaren, skype ?
<ronoc> call me when you are ready
<zniavre> good afternoon
<zniavre> what is new about this bug please ? > https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/762478
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 762478 in unity (Ubuntu) "[nouveau] No icons shown in unity launcher" [High,Confirmed]
<zniavre> can we think it could be solved in Oneiric ?
<Ianster_guy> Hello my name is Ian and I'm a Ubuntu/windows user. On my Ubuntu desktop I have a usb surround sound card that stopped working after a upgrade. Who is interested in a problem like this or where do I drop a bug report.
<Ianster_guy> :)
<Ianster_guy> I've gone through the trouble shooting already
<mpt> vish, you're right. Fixed.
<vish> mpt: i guess we should re-open the bug to keep the ellipses?
<mpt> vish, no, the update retains them
<vish> mpt: oh..?  ok,Cool! i hadnt checked the update, just saw the bug
<mpt> vish, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/73655618/indicator-sound_0.7.0-0ubuntu1_0.7.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<mpt> vish, it does reveal, though, that it's using "..." when it should be using "â¦"
<vish> k..
<vish> mpt: yea, it just seems the changelog entry was not updated.
<jo-erlend> can someone help me find some working examples of Python appindicators? None of them work. This one, for instance: http://conjurecode.com/create-indicator-applet-for-ubuntu-unity-with-python/
<jo-erlend> appindicator does not have any Indicator member.
<tedg> jo-erlend, I'd grab the weather indicator, I'm pretty sure that's in Python.
<jo-erlend> tedg, no, Vala.
<jo-erlend> like all the other Python examples I've found...
<c10ud> jo-erlend, https://github.com/emesene/emesene/blob/master/emesene/gui/gtkui/Indicator.py
<jo-erlend> c10ud, but that also says appindicator should have a Indicator member. I can't find that here.
<c10ud> what says what?
<jo-erlend> your example.
<c10ud> i don't get it
<jo-erlend> there is no Indicator class in the appindicator module.
<jo-erlend> >>> import appindicator \n >>> dir(appindicator) \n ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', 'appindicator', 'gobject', 'gtk']
<c10ud> well, that should work in lucid and maverick, not sure about natty though
<jo-erlend> are you running natty?
<c10ud> nope
<jo-erlend> you're right. On Lucid, appindicator does have an Indicator class.
<jo-erlend> hmm. Strange. I had a file named "appindicator" in my home, which was imported instead :)
<Wolf1978> hi, i'm just here to inquire about unity and wether canonical will continue to use unity as standard desktop in the future.
<tedg> Wolf1978, We have no plans to stop Unity development that I know of.
<tedg> jo-erlend, I'd like to get the Python examples updated to start using GObject introspection for Oneric, since that's the way all GTK stuff is going.  I'm not too familiar with Python myself though.
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, that's very likely.
<Wolf1978> tedg: to be more specific about my question: i really dislike unity, after working for it for 2 weeks now, and would rather switch distribution than going through the pain of uninstalling unity from ubuntu. if unity will stay in ubuntu, i guess ubuntu ist "just not right" for me... which would be sad, as I have been using ubuntu for some years now.
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, Unity is not a "desktop" though. The desktop is still Gnome. Unity is just one shell for it.
<jo-erlend> in 11.10, you'll be able to switch between Unity and Gnome Shell as easily as you do with Unity and Gnome Panel now, for instance.
<tedg> Wolf1978, Okay, that's your choice.  Sorry that you don't like it.  There are other desktop shells you can try on Ubuntu, including Kubuntu and Xubuntu.  But if you feel a different distribution is right for you, that's okay too.
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, Unity is just a plugin for Compiz. You can easily switch to Gnome panel. There is absolutely no reason to reinstall or uninstall anything.
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, takes about five seconds to switch. Installing a different distro will take more effort.
<Wolf1978> well, it uses up disk-space. ubuntu stands for one application for one purpose, unlike e.g. opensuse, where you just have too much applications for the same purpose. thats why I like ubuntu, but having unity on it does not make sense when i am not using it. i am a purist, and would rather have it uninstalled, which seems complicated. and sorry if my english is horrible to your ears.
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, just choose Ubuntu Classic when you login and you're back to the way Ubuntu was before.
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, how much space does Unity take?
<Wolf1978> will gnome get the same attention as unity in the future, or will you focus on unity?
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, Unity is a shell for Gnome. But yes, Gnome Shell will be back in 11.10, as I said.
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, but since Gnome has killed Gnome Panel, that will not get any more attention in any distro I reckon. It would be very surprising, anyway, since nobody has worked on it for years now.
<jo-erlend> oh... And btw: according to apt-cache, Unity takes 620KB.
<Wolf1978> true... but i like it still more than unity ;) will definately try out 11.10
<Wolf1978> ok, that is not very much indeed...
<Wolf1978> may i ask another question regarding the detection of my graphic adapter?
<jo-erlend> seems a little bit off topic in this channel?
<Wolf1978> i see, will try somewhere else. thank you again for answering
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, have you discovered the keyboard functions in Unity, btw? Lots of people doesn't know about them. Or right-clicking on lenses in the launcher, etc.
<jo-erlend> I have big difficulties understanding why anyone would prefer Gnome Panel to Unity.
<jo-erlend> btw: you can still use gnome-panel with Unity, if you want a bottom panel, for instance.
<Wolf1978> maybe because everyone has worked with gnome for so many years now, and with unity the feel of linux changes a lot.
<jo-erlend> yes. Finally being able to use the keyboard properly, is one of the things I personally love about Unity. Easier access to files and apps is another. :)
<Wolf1978> i have not used any keyboard commands with unity, i dont even know of them...
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, that doesn't surprise me. Most people that have complained about Unity, doesn't. Here are some simple ones: press and hold super (winkey). You'll see numbers over the launcher and if you press that number while holding super, you switch to that application, or start it if it isn't running.
<jo-erlend> if you press that number twice, then you get an overview of all the windows that belongs to that application. If you press shift, then you start another instance of the application. Press super+w to get an overview of all open windows, super+a to go directly to your applications or super+f to go directly to files and folders.
<HarryHaaren> jo-erlend: How can one change the delay before the launcher pops out, & displays the numbers?
<jo-erlend> HarryHaaren, I don't know.
<jo-erlend> why would you want to?
<Wolf1978> i really dislike, that i can not give parameters to starters... e.g. --geometry 80x25 to the terminal...
<Wolf1978> or change the background color of starters at all.... at least i did not find out how
<HarryHaaren> jo-erlend: hate waiting for my computer to respond to me :D
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, you can't?
<jo-erlend> HarryHaaren, oh, you want it to not animate, but appear instantly?
<HarryHaaren> yep
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, you mean on the launcher, right? The background colour depends on the icon used.
<Wolf1978> on the launcher, yes. why can i not make it the color i want? and where do i enter parameters?
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, when you make the launcher, you can enter parameters as you like.
<Wolf1978> when i start a gnome-terminal, and tell it to stay on the launcher, where can i set the parameters?
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, if you want a custom launcher, then you have to make it. Right click on the desktop and "create starter" (I don't use english desktop, so your label might be different)
<jo-erlend> then drop it onto the launcher.
<Wolf1978> ok, when i delete the starter from the desktop is is gone on the launcher also...
<jo-erlend> hmm. Really? That's strange. Let me have a look.
<Wolf1978> definately...
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, you'd probably want to place it in ~/.local/share/applications anyway, so that shouldn't be a real problem.
<jo-erlend> (that way, it'll show up in dash and be counted in recent applications as well)
<Wolf1978> it is just more complicated than is was before unity. i'm just trying to tell you WHY i do not like unity in its current state... the color thing is just another example. there SHOULD also be an option to disable global menu, instead of having the user use google to find a guid on how to disable it.
<jo-erlend> sure. I personally like to use the keyboard and have the system learn from my actions so I don't have to repeat myself, but others prefer to use the mouse and click a lot. That's fine.
<Wolf1978> the system to learn from my actions? is unity doing that?
<jo-erlend> yes.
<Wolf1978> how?
<jo-erlend> it counts when and why you run applications, and optionally where you are when you do it. So, over time, it'll learn what you're trying to do. Actually, it's zeitgeist that does that, but Unity uses that kind of data to display files, applications, etc.
<jo-erlend> if you have a morning meeting every monday from 9AM to 10AM, for instance, then it makes sense that documents related to those meetings should be easily available around that time. You shouldn't have to navigate your filesystem for them.
<Wolf1978> isn't that dangerous? is this data transmitted anywhere?
<jo-erlend> no.
<Wolf1978> ok, another one. can i change the size of the icons on the launcher?
<jo-erlend> I don't think you can atm.
<jo-erlend> Wolf1978, I would recommend that you give Unity another chance. It has many "hidden" features that I'm sure you'll come to love. If you want to, you can always run a gnome-panel at the bottom and right to lean on until you get comfortable.
<Wolf1978> will unity get feature updates on the same interval as ubuntu releases new versions, or is it updated more often?
<jo-erlend> that's a good question. I don't really know. I don't think I'd mind if it were made an exception to the SRU rule, since there's obviously many things to improve yet.
<HarryHaaren> Wold1978: Launcher icons, yes, terminal -> ccsm (advanced compiz thingy), Scroll to "unity panel plugin", advanced tab, icon size :)
<jo-erlend> ah :)
<HarryHaaren> Wolf1978, see above post by me
<Wolf1978> jo-erlend: guess i'm giving it another chance...
<jo-erlend> HarryHaaren, that's great. Thanks. They were a little big for my taste. :)
<Wolf1978> HarryHaaren: thank you
<HarryHaaren> 32 is a little big for my taste :P There's a bug report floating about to make the range bigger though
<andyrock> hi all
<andyrock> i can't compile unity from lp, after gtk+3 porting
<andyrock> cmake works good
<andyrock> but make -j2 give me this:
<andyrock> In file included from /usr/include/unity-misc/unity-misc/na-tray-manager.h:32:0,
<andyrock>                  from /usr/include/unity-misc/unity-misc/na-tray.h:32,
<andyrock>                  from /home/andyrock/Desktop/unity/src/PanelTray.h:32,
<andyrock>                  from /home/andyrock/Desktop/unity/src/PanelView.h:35,
<andyrock>                  from /home/andyrock/Desktop/unity/tests/TestPanel.cpp:28:
<andyrock> /usr/include/unity-misc/unity-misc/na-tray-child.h:44:3: error: âGtkSocketâ does not name a type
<andyrock> /usr/include/unity-misc/unity-misc/na-tray-child.h:53:3: error: âGtkSocketClassâ does not name a type
<andyrock> make[2]: *** [tests/CMakeFiles/test-panel.dir/TestPanel.cpp.o] Error 1
<andyrock> make[1]: *** [tests/CMakeFiles/test-panel.dir/all] Error 2
<andyrock> make[1]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
<andyrock> sorry: http://pastebin.com/du1r8UQb
<mterry> Heyo!  Is there any way to have bamf treat multiple executables as part of the same app?  So far, for bamf to recognize an executable, it needs its own .desktop file and bamf treats each .desktop file as a separate app
<mterry> njpatel, ^
<njpatel> DBO, for you ^
 * njpatel can just chain on pings like it was his day job
<mterry> :)
<mterry> njpatel, it's not?
<DBO> mterry, no, why would we need to?
<mterry> DBO, I'll give the case of my pet project deja-dup.  It has several desktop files for technical reasons.  But ideally, the user would just see the various windows as part of the same "app"
<DBO> you mean various executable?
<mterry> DBO, both several desktops and several executables (they are 1-1)
<DBO> uhm
<DBO> how are they launched?
<njpatel> mterry, shush!
<mterry> DBO, it has changed in various versions of DD, but I can walk you through the various .desktop relationships if that would help paint the picture
<DBO> mterry, more I was curious if one exe is launching the next
<mterry> DBO, it happens to be the case in the oneiric version that they are, but in natty, they could be launched separately
<DBO> so in the oneiric version are there still multiple desktop files?
<mterry> DBO, yes
<DBO> why?
<mterry> DBO, I am fine with explaining this, but are you merely curious or trying to challenge the idea that an app should ever have multiple .desktop files?
<DBO> I am both curious and confused as to why you might do this
<DBO> to me if a user sees multiple desktop files
<DBO> well no
<DBO> I mean to me what you have described are multiple applications
<DBO> so I am trying to figure out why they wouldn't be
<mterry> DBO, well (A) not all .desktop files are visible.  (B) It's a technical limitation of .desktop files that they can only describe one executable.  But certainly you can imagine a logical "App" that had multiple executables?
<DBO> sure but not one that would also have multiple launchers
<mterry> DBO, well, I could imagine that being debatable, but let's say the app author wanted the window to be well-described by bamf when it came up.  So they wrote a NoDisplay .desktop file for the second executable
<mterry> To provide translated name and icon
<mterry> But now the app author is stuck with two entries on the launcher.  The second .desktop file the author wrote is really to workaround the fact that he/she can't associate the second executable with the first .desktop file
<mterry> DBO, that's basically the situation deja-dup is in now
<DBO> you could easily associate multiple executable with the same desktop file provided they down have their own
<mterry> DBO, it has a preference window and a 'worker executable' each with their own .desktop file
<DBO> make sure they all have the same wm-class that matches the desktop-id of the desktop file
<DBO> and done
<mterry> DBO, ah, excellent.  I will look into that.  That helps for the oneiric case.  But I'm also curious how one might solve the problem of natty deja-dup
<DBO> I dont really know
<mterry> DBO, that had two entry points into the "app"
<DBO> to bamf, those are different applications
<DBO> we would have to I guess add some metadata to the desktop file
<DBO> that bamf could read
<DBO> basically linking to the primary desktop file
<mterry> DBO, if an executable described in .desktop A had a wm-class for .desktop B, which would bamf associate it with?
<DBO> that depends
<DBO> if it was launched from desktop file A
<DBO> it would match to A
<DBO> if it was launched by some other means
<DBO> it would likely match to B
<mterry> DBO, well, the wm-class trick will help me for now.  I set wm-class to (e.g.) "deja-dup.desktop"?  or "deja-dup"
<DBO> deja-dup
<DBO> desktop-id == foo for foo.desktop
<mterry> DBO, cool, thanks!
<Zhenech> tedg, mailing contributor-agreement@ and you is sufficient? or someone else too? indicator-datetime isnt listed on that page
<tedg> Zhenech, Yeah, those two is good.  I'll forward it on.
<tedg> Odd that it's not on there...
<Zhenech> btw, as exchange you fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/705363 for me :)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 705363 in gwibber (Debian) "gwibber bypasses certificate checking when providing the login/password for OAuth" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<Zhenech> tedg, done, going to bed now :)
<tedg> Zhenech, Thank you!
<jo-erlend> hmm. Appindicators only supports menus, as I've understood it. But things like the media indicator has other stuff, like play and volume controls. How can that be?
<jo-erlend> normal gtk menus doesn't support stuff like that?
<meebey> who is in charge of the debian/ubuntu packages of libindicate? I wonder if the lib should suggest or even recommend something from the indicate stack else the app that provides the indicators land in the bin
#ayatana 2011-06-18
<TheMuso> jo-erlend: I think libido has something to do with that. Not entirely sure myself just how its done, but I do know libido is involved.
<jo-erlend> TheMuso, that sounds a little bit suspicious. URL? :)
<TheMuso> jo-erlend: Just check the source package. I don't know where it lives upstream.
<jo-erlend> TheMuso, can I use that in Python?
<TheMuso> jo-erlend: Not sure if there are python bindings for it or not.
<TheMuso> Hrm ok seems that there are no gir bindings for ido, http://launchpad.net/ido
<TheMuso> Seems they are really only meant for system indicators.
<TheMuso> There is probably a case for being able to use them elsewhere however.
<TheMuso> If there were gir bindings, then you could indeed use it in python.
<jo-erlend> system indicators? Banshee uses it. Spotify does too?
<jo-erlend> TheMuso, gir?
<TheMuso> Right.
<TheMuso> Gobject introspection
<jo-erlend> ah.
<jo-erlend> yes, I've heard of that and PyGI? Does that mean better support for Python?
<jo-erlend> I mean... Will that make more libraries available?
<TheMuso> Gobject introspection basically means you can use libraries written in GObject in python, without having the need for python specific bindings.
<jo-erlend> oh. That sounds great.
<TheMuso> So for example the indicator stack is GObject based, so there is GObject introspectino for those to be used in python and other languages.
<jo-erlend> GObject has been around for a while, but GObject Introspection is something new, right?
<TheMuso> So far as I know, yes.
<jo-erlend> that should also reduce the differenced between Python and other languages, as I understand it?
<TheMuso> Not sure.
<jo-erlend> heh, though it seems as if every time I'm getting the hang of something, it's being replaced by something else. :)
<TheMuso> Yeah I know what you mean.
<jo-erlend> but I've been told that the differences between pygtk and g-i will be rather small.
 * malcolmlewis is away: getting coffee, be back in 5 mins
 * malcolmlewis is back (gone 00:08:26)
<ari_> hi all
<ari_> I'd like the unity panel to always display the application menu instead of the window label and the menu showing up when hovering with the mouse on. couldn't find a way to change this, is this somehow possible?
<ari_> noone knows about the menu issue? anyway, brb rebooting
<zniavre> good afternoon
<zniavre> how to activate overlay scrollbar on oneiric gnome classic session please (not in unity )
<zniavre> ?
<zniavre> gnome3 *
<andyrock> DBO, ping
<jo-erlend> will we ever get back the opportunity to write away status in the memenu?
<andyrock> jaytaoko, ping
<jo-erlend> is there any reason why I shouldn't be able to use aGtkMenu from a GtkBuilder as indicator menu?
<jo-erlend> look at this for instance. Everything seems to be working, but I don't get any indicator menu on my panel: http://ubuntuone.com/p/zsC/
<jo-erlend> alright! So I have a functional appindicator menu. But how do I add my menu to an existing menu, like the message indicator?
<Nafai> jo-erlend: IIRC, you do it by setting type of the app indicator
<Nafai> let me look at the docs real quick
<Nafai> jo-erlend: I'm not sure how much has changed since this, but here's some good examples: http://gnomejournal.org/article/67/an-introduction-to-the-message-indicator
<jo-erlend> thanks.
<Nafai> it's been well over a year since I've written any indicator code :(
#ayatana 2011-06-19
<Nafai> Boo.  bzr is frustrating.
<KarlMarx> :<
<Nafai> Yes, I know my local branch has diverged.  That's why I want to rebase on the upstream.
 * Nafai misses git
<Nafai> ugh, trying to keep a patch up to date seems way more difficult
<Nafai> TheMuso: You around?
<TheMuso> Nafai: Sorry, only just got your tweet. Are you still here?
<Nafai> Yup
<Nafai> hey man :)
<TheMuso> Its bloody late in the states.
<TheMuso> At least 2:30AM on the west coast...
<Nafai> yeah, 3:40 here :)
<Nafai> I'm on a weird schedule these days
<TheMuso> Ok.
<TheMuso> At the moment, as I said in my tweets, I am hacking on Unity's quicklist accessibilitycode, i.e creating code that previously did not exist. :)
<Nafai> yay
<TheMuso> Yeah, and I think I have that well in hand.
<Nafai> nice
<TheMuso> After that, I am going to see about getting more of the places/run command window accessibility hooked up.
<TheMuso> A tiny bit of that is done for that atm, however not all of it is done, because Nux is not exposing all the information that is needed to provide a good a11y experience.
<Nafai> what more does it need to do?
<TheMuso> For a start, it needs to expose extra informatino about text boxes, like current cursor position, current range of any selected text, and maybe more that I haven't discovered is needed yet.
<Nafai> I'm trying to get involved with the unity-community stuff that jcastro is heading up, so I'd love if part of what I do also intersects with ubuntu-a11y :)
<TheMuso> We need at least a subset of the informatino required by the editable text objects in atk, http://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkEditableText.html
<TheMuso> Cool.
<TheMuso> My C++ is not that strong, but I know how to read a class definition, and Nux's TextEntry class doesn't expose enough of what is needed, or at least so far as I have discovered.
 * Nafai nods
<Nafai> I'm slightly out of practice with C++, but getting back into it as I've read much of the Unity sources
<TheMuso> Cool.
<TheMuso> So I guess one thing you could start helping with, is going over keyboard navigation behavior, adn reporting any oddities. For example, I was playing around with the places view keyboard nav the other day, and discovered some oddities when using the arrow keys/tab to move between items.
<Nafai> ah, good idea
<TheMuso> Since you have better eye sight than I, it would be useful to have someone go over those oddities and report them, such that when they are fixed, we will have a better platform for a11y testing once places is more accessible.
<Nafai> definitely
<TheMuso> I also believe that the places dropdown arrow in the top right corner fo the places window cannot be navigated to with the keyboard.
<TheMuso> brb
<andyrock> thumper, around?
<TheMuso> back
<TheMuso> Nafai: So if you could find time to look those few things over, and subscribe me to the bugs in questino, themuso on launchpad, I'd appreciate it.
<TheMuso> andyrock: I am pretty sure he wouldn't be around at the moment. Its almost 10 PM on a Sunday ngiht ni NZ.
<TheMuso> Sunday Night in NZ.
<andyrock> TheMuso, ok thanks. do you know something about when we should use namespace in unity?
<TheMuso> andyrock: No sorry, I don't.
<andyrock> TheMuso, ok thanks again.
<Nafai> TheMuso: No problem :)
<TheMuso> Nafai: Thanks a lot.
 * TheMuso was playing around with lenses on Friday, and even thouhg I can't use them yet, they are an AWESOME concept and are implemented nicely.
<Nafai> definitely
<TheMuso> Right, thats the quicklist view accessibility code done, now onto the quicklist menu item accessibility code.
<thumper> andyrock: you're lucky
<thumper> andyrock: the unity namespace should be used everywhere, but I'm slowly adding it
<andyrock> thumper, oh what a beautiful news...
<andyrock> thumper, i'm porting DeviceSettings, DeviceLauncherIcon and DeviceLancherSection
<thumper> andyrock: use other namespaces inside unity where it makes sense
<andyrock> thumper, i should use new code style?
<thumper> feel free to add namespaces, and yes please with the new coding style
<andyrock> ok, thanks a lot
<thumper> np
 * thumper goes to do dishes
<andyrock> thumper, good luck :=
<andyrock> :)
 * Nafai heads to bed, much too late here
<TheMuso> Nafai: Night dude, and thanks.
<dhasenan> I'm trying to find the source for the Unity run dialog and having no luck. Where should I look?
<andyrock> dhasenan, what do you mean for unity run dialog?
#ayatana 2020-06-11
<royalewithcheese> Fuck You
