#ubuntu-classroom 2007-11-14
<Coastside> Looking for help with Ubuntu server 7x... new to linux os's so go easy, I'm linux iliterate...
<Coastside> Just installed yesterday for first time and wondering if there is a good gui available to simplify apache2, DNS and FTP servers
<Coastside> I configured gnome for OS gui, but thats all
* nalioth changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Please join #ubuntu for support |  This channel used for scheduled classes and invitational tutoring | Ubuntu Open Week info: Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Ubuntu classroom transcripts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts
<ubuntu1337> :)
<soundray> ubuntu1337: how old is your mum's computer exactly?
<soundray> Actually, roughly will be good enough :)
<ubuntu1337> soundray
<ubuntu1337> i do not know
<ubuntu1337> we bought it used a couple years ago, i believe
<ubuntu1337> i would estimate... 4 years
<soundray> ubuntu1337: okay, so a few years. I think it could be very useful to dual-boot it with Ubuntu -- just forget about the effects thing.
<soundray> Too late, dang :)
<ubuntu1337> What is this?
<soundray> newbee: there you are :)
<newbee> soundray: my bad sorry
<soundray> newbee: do a 'sudo fdisk -l' in the terminal please
<newbee> soundray: yah im here
<soundray> newbee: what's the topmost line that says "Linux" under "System"?
<OldPink> What an awesome idea, Ubuntu classroom, that's brilliant. I had no idea such a place existed, had to check it out. Been with Linux a year and a half. Persevere with any difficulties, it's the best switch you'll ever make :)
<newbee> i didsoundray: i
<soundray> newbee: just tell me the device please
<newbee> soundray: i did :)
<newbee> soundray: then?
<soundray> newbee: tell me again please
<newbee> soundray: sda2
<soundray> newbee: okay, enter 'sudo mount /dev/sda2 /mnt'. It should come back with a prompt.
<soundray> newbee: then enter 'ls' -- do you see items like bin, boot, dev, etc?
<soundray> newbee: sry
<soundray> newbee: then enter 'ls /mnt' -- do you see items like bin, boot, dev, etc?
<newbee> soundray:  when i wrote it says "cant find /dev/sda2/mnt in /etc/fstrab/ or /etc/mtab"
<soundray> newbee: you have to be careful and enter *all* the spaces
<soundray> newbee: okay, enter 'sudo mount /dev/sda2 /mnt'.
<newbee> soundray: sudo mount /dev/sda2 /mnt nothing happening  i feel like im stupid in here
<soundray> newbee: enter 'ls /mnt' -- do you see items like bin, boot, dev, etc?
<soundray> newbee: nothing happening is good, usually
<newbee> im writng sudo*mount*/dev/sda2*/mnt
<newbee> soundray: im writng sudo*mount*/dev/sda2*/mnt
<soundray> newbee: silence means success, so everything is good. Go on to the next step: ls /mnt
<newbee> soundray: oh yes i can see now :) thanks :)
<ubuntu1337> I rather like trolls.
<ubuntu1337> I don't think much of naughty irc-ops, though.
<newbee> soundray: i can see bin root and etc..
<nareshov> newbee, typing "mount" shows you currently mounted file-systems
<soundray> newbee: do a 'cd /mnt/boot/grub' now. Silence means success
<soundray> nareshov: are you sure this is helpful right now?
<nareshov> not sure, carry on. I'll just watch
<newbee> soundray: it says "no such file or directory"
<nalioth> ubuntu1337: the same rules apply in here, as in #ubuntu
<soundray> newbee: what does 'ls /mnt/boot' say? There should be items like vmlinuz-2.6.22-14 etc.
<newbee> soundray: it says "vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-generic
<newbee> soundray: it says "vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-generic"
<soundray> newbee: good. Is there also an item called 'grub'?
<newbee> i cant see anything  writes grub lately
<newbee> soundray: i cant see anything  writes grub lately
<soundray> newbee: okay. Please do a 'sudo chroot /mnt bash'. The prompt should now be a # instead of a $. Correct?
<newbee> soundray: yyeah
<soundray> newbee: now enter 'apt-get install grub'. Any errors?
<newbee> soundray: done
<newbee> soundray: it says "grab is already new version"
<newbee> soundray: no errors
<soundray> newbee: okay, we have to force it then: 'apt-get --reinstall install grub'. Any errors?
<ubuntu1337> i have major hacking skillz
<newbee> soundray: would u put * instead of spaces?
<soundray> newbee: okay, we have to force it then: 'apt-get*--reinstall*install*grub'
<newbee> soundray: thanks its done now :):)
<newbee> soundray: hops
<soundray> newbee: we'll soon find out: 'cd    /boot/grub/'
<nareshov> (:D)
<soundray> I'll put several spaces instead of * -- we might need a * later
<newbee> soundray: sorry i miss read .. "reinstallation of grub is not possbile it can not be downloaded
<soundray> newbee: how do you chat -- separate computer?
<newbee> soundray: no with the same computer
<soundray> newbee: with Ubuntu?
<newbee> soundray: yeah
<soundray> newbee: so it's not a network problem. Open another terminal now and enter 'cd   /mnt/var/cache/apt/archives/'
<newbee> soundray: u want me to open a one more terminal? should i close the old one?
<soundray> newbee: no, we just need a second one
<newbee> soundray: yeah  i did
<newbee> soundray: i wrote  ... archives/
<soundray> newbee: are you installing the 32bit or 64bit version of ubuntu?
<ubuntu1337> 86x
<newbee> soundray: im sorry but i ve no idea
<newbee> soundray: i guess its 32 bit its a bit old computer
<soundray> newbee: type uname -a to be sure -- it says either i386 or x86_64
<newbee> i 686
<newbee> soundray: i686
<soundray> newbee: good
<soundray> Now type 'wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/grub/grub_0.97-29ubuntu4_i386.deb'
<soundray> newbee: the only space is after wget
<newbee> soundray: it says "resolving archive..... "
<soundray> newbee: no change?
<newbee> soundray: then "can not write to grub_0.97......deb (permission denied)"
<soundray> newbee: okay, get the command back with the up arrow, go to the beginning of the line and change it so it says 'sudo   wget   http...' instead of 'wget http...'
<newbee> soundray: its done :) downloaded
<soundray> :)
<soundray> Now 'dpkg   -i   grub_0.97*'
<soundray> Any errors?
<newbee> soundray:* means space or *?
<soundray> newbee: * means *
<newbee> soundray: "requested operation requires superuser privilege
<newbee> soundray: it says "requested operation requires superuser privilege "
<soundray> Okay, we need to do it in the other window.
<newbee> soundray: old window or the 3.th one?
<soundray> newbee: actually, in the other window, go back to the 'apt-get ...' command with the Up arrow key.
<soundray> newbee: and hit return to run it again.
<newbee> soundray: i re enter my last command in 1st terminal window as u said apt-get-... reinstall install grub but it cant be downloaded again
<ubuntu1337> my advice:
<ubuntu1337> pour gasoline on the damn thing and ignite.
<ikonia> ubuntu1337: thats not helpful
<soundray> newbee: do a 'dpkg    -i   /var/cache/apt/archives/grub_0.97*'
<soundray> no sudo this time, as you have a root shell already.
<newbee> soundray: no errors last words " setting up grub (0.97-29ubuntu4)
<newbee> soundray: no errors last words " setting up grub (0.97-29ubuntu4)"
<soundray> Good. Try again 'cd /boot/grub' in the same terminal
<newbee> soundray: it says "bash: cd: /boot/grub: no such file or directory"
<ubuntu1337> care -_-
<soundray> newbee: what do you get from 'update-grub'?
<ikonia> you should care
<newbee> soundray: when i wrote "update-grub" it says "no grub directory found. to create template run 'mkdir /boot/grub" first to install grub, install it manually or try the 'grub-install'command. and a warning grub-install is used to change ur MBR"
<soundray> newbee: okay, that's what we'll do: 'mkdir   /boot/grub'
<newbee> soundray: slience scces??
<soundray> newbee: yes
<newbee> soundray: yes :) then :)
<soundray> Now 'grub-install    (hd0)'
<newbee> soundray: it says "syntax error near unexpected token 'hd0'"
<soundray> Yes... 'grub-install   /dev/sda'
<newbee> soundray: it says " /dev/sda not found or not a block device"
<soundray> hmm. Try in the other terminal window. We have to change the syntax:
<soundray> 'sudo    grub-install   --root-directory=/mnt    /dev/sda'
<newbee> soundray: second window? im going to write the same thing?
<newbee> soundray: in second window or 1st window?
<soundray> newbee: the second, the one with the $ prompt
<newbee> soundray: long story appear on screen
<soundray> newbee: can you paste it to http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org ?
<newbee> i cant copy from terminal:(
<newbee> soundray: oh i copy it :):):)
<soundray> newbee: just highlight the message with the mouse and use the middle button...
<soundray> well done. What's the URL?
<newbee> soundray: cntl+c dont work  lol it works with button
<newbee> soundray: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44551/
<soundray> Can you check the command again, and make sure that the last part is really /dev/sda
<soundray> 'sudo    grub-install   --root-directory=/mnt    /dev/sda'
<newbee> soundray: here is the same paste with my command http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44552/
<soundray> newbee: it has to be /dev/sda   (not dev/sda)
<newbee> soundray: im really feel stupid
<soundray> newbee: don't. It takes time to get used to how picky Linux can be :)
<newbee> soundray: it says "/dev/sda does not have any corresponding BIOS drive."
<soundray> We'll use the other name then
<soundray> 'sudo    grub-install   --root-directory=/mnt    '(hd0)'   '
<soundray> You need to enter '(hd0)' with the single ticks
<newbee> soundray: can u write it between "    " so i can paste it correctly. i did not know copy paste would work,
<soundray> " sudo    grub-install   --root-directory=/mnt    '(hd0)'  "
<newbee> soundray: it says "/dev/sda does not have any corresponding BIOS drive."
<soundray> newbee: " echo   '(hd0)    /dev/sda'   >/boot/grub/device.map'  "
<soundray> After that, get the grub-install command back with the Up arrow key and enter it again
<soundray> sorry, mistake
<soundray> newbee: " echo   '(hd0)    /dev/sda'   >/boot/grub/device.map  "
<newbee> soundray: >  ?
<soundray> There was an extra tick in the previous one
<newbee> soundray: oh i should not put a tick at the end is it?
<soundray> newbee: that's right
<newbee> soundray: bash: syntax error near unexpected token `('
<newbee> soundray: bash: it says "syntax error near unexpected token `('"
<newbee> soundray:it says " bash:  syntax error near unexpected token `('"
<soundray> You do need the ticks before (hd0) and after /dev/sda
<newbee> soundray: this is what i wrote "echo '(hd0) /dev/sda' >/boot/grub/device.map'
<newbee> > echo '(hd0) /dev/sda' >/boot/grub/device.map
<newbee> "
<soundray> newbee: something went wrong -- hit Ctrl-C until you get the # prompt again
<newbee> soundray this is " ubuntu@ubuntu:/mnt/var/cache/apt/archives$ echo '(hd0) /dev/sda' >/boot/grub/device.map
<newbee> bash: /boot/grub/device.map: No such file or directory
<newbee> ubuntu@ubuntu:/mnt/var/cache/apt/archives$
<newbee> "
<newbee> soundray: which terminal i should wrote? $ or # =
<newbee> ?
<soundray> The # one
<newbee> soundray: slience success?
<soundray> Yes
<newbee> soundray: im sorryi was writng at $
<newbee> soundray now we ar e ok
<soundray> Okay, if the next step doesn't work now, I won't know what to do...
<newbee> soundray: i should start to pray god
<soundray> At the $ prompt, get the old command back:
<newbee> soundray: :):):)
<soundray>  " sudo    grub-install   --root-directory=/mnt    '(hd0)'   "
<newbee> soundray: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44554/
<soundray> It's looking good
<newbee> soundray: we all done?
<soundray> Difficult process though...
<soundray> I think you can risk a reboot
<soundray> Hold on...
<newbee> soundray: its still difficult for me, i ve no idea what amn i doing :):):)
<soundray> There is one thing we should check...
<newbee> soundray: ok im holding
<soundray> At the # prompt:  'ls /boot/grub/menu.lst'
<newbee> soundray: with ' ?
<soundray> no
<newbee> soundray: it says " root@ubuntu:/# ls /boot/grub/menu.lst
<newbee> ls: /boot/grub/menu.lst: No such file or directory
<newbee> "
<soundray> I see... we have to create a boot menu.
<newbee> what ?f we failed :):)
<soundray> Can you pastebin the output of 'ls   /boot/grub/' please
<newbee> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44555/
<newbee> soundray: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44555/
<soundray> Only 'ls /boot/grub/' please
<newbee> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/44556/
<soundray> Okay. Now you should run 'update-grub' at the # prompt. Say 'Y' when it asks you if you want to create a menu.lst
<newbee> its done
<soundray> newbee: good. If you reboot now, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to boot into Ubuntu.
<soundray> newbee: see if there is a menu entry for Windows as well. If not, that can be added. Ask in #ubuntu again for how to do that.
<newbee> soundray: what if it wont open. i dont care about if it open or not anymore. i want to thank u later  thousands times  cuz u really helpfull i feel myself i dunno how to thank
<newbee> soundray: i want it open cuz i dont want to lose u , u really good friend
<soundray> newbee: don't worry about it, it was a good challenge
<newbee> soundray: im afraid if my pc wont open i will not be able to onlline for today and i wont be able to see u again
<newbee> soundray: ok thanks alot for all the things
<soundray> Of course I'm not a 100% sure that it'll boot now, but I'll hang around for a few minutes to see if you log in again. Okay?
<newbee> soundray: i hope so, its pretty late in here. if it wont open i will go to sleep
<soundray> I see, where are you?
<newbee> soundray: turkey its 2am
<newbee> soundray: izmir  where re u?
<soundray> newbee: okay -- good night if I don't see you. Near London, England (23.49 here)
<newbee> soundray: if u mid i can give u my msn adress, i dunno how to but maybe oneday i will have a chance to thank u :)
<s1024kb> Good morning everyone! I am from China, a new member here
<soundray> newbee: I'm not on MSN. Let's see now if I have really helped you :)
<newbee> soundray: ok. but before i go i want to ask u something
<soundray> Yes?
<newbee> soundray: u know all the codes? or u looking from anywhere?
<soundray> Most of what I told you I know because I've used these methods to fix problems of my own. But if you're looking for ways to solve problems, the Ubuntu forums and wiki are really useful.
<soundray> I've installed Ubuntu about 30 times on very different systems
<newbee> soundray: oh, u should be a rocket scientist lol, the codes are really hard to use. im sure i will need help for second time, im sure i will need help even if im installing for 102nt time :):)
<soundray> And I started using grub when it was not released yet
<soundray> I'm a brain scientist by day :)
<newbee> whatever i keep u busy so long. thanks alot for the help now im going to boot my pc
<soundray> Good luck!
<newbee> i hope it will work
<newbee> thanks alot again and again
<newbee> take care
<soundray> Me too
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-11-15
<warp10> Hi all!
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-11-16
<warp10> Hi all!
<txwikinger-work> \nick txwikinger2
 * effie_jayx pellizca a elkbuntu 
<effie_jayx> !schedule
<ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<effie_jayx> :P
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  listo?
<dholbach> hey effie_jayx
<dholbach> listo?
<effie_jayx> ready in spanish
<effie_jayx> ;)
<dholbach> in an hour :)
<effie_jayx> cool
 * effie_jayx check his watch...
<effie_jayx> doh
<dholbach> oh no, it's 12:00 UTC already
<effie_jayx> lol
<effie_jayx> !now
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about now - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<effie_jayx> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: November 16 2007, 12:01:19 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 6 days
<dholbach> hehe
<dholbach> effie_jayx: hang on, I'll advertise the session in other channels
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  no problem
<dholbach> welcome everybody to our MOTU Q&A session!
<dholbach> let's start with the usual round of introductions
<MrLimeni> hello everybody
<dholbach> I'm Daniel Holbach, have been MOTU for a couple of releases already, worked in the Desktop Team and other places, but now am focussed on making MOTU KICK ASS and make going through the MOTU process as smooth and enjoyable as possible :)
<dholbach> who else do we have here? :)
 * jono raises hand/join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
<jono> oops
<jono> heh
<norsetto> do we have a MOTUKA team already? I want to join
<dholbach> norsetto: MOTUKA? what's that going to be? :)
 * dholbach spotted some familiar faces - introduce yourselves :-)
<norsetto> err, MOTU KICK ASS?
<dholbach> haha
 * dholbach hugs norsetto
 * norsetto hugs dholbach back
<dholbach> ok, let me introduce a few people then...
<dholbach> we have norsetto, Cesare Tirabassi, who has similar aims as I do: making becoming a MOTU fun and as smooth as possible
<dholbach> seb128, SÃ©bastien Bacher, Desktop king and packaging ace
 * seb128 hugs dholbach
<dholbach> we have jono "JÃ¤ger" bacon, Metal Drummer and Community Manager
 * lool waves
<jono> hehe
<jono> heya lool :)
 * norsetto hopes metal as in heavy metal not those fancy carribean drums ....
<jono> norsetto: indeed :)
<dholbach> we have Hobbsee,  she kicks ass in the MOTU team and has the large pointy stick of doom
 * Hobbsee waves
<dholbach> lool, LoÃ¯c Minier, he rocks as much as SÃ©b does
<dholbach> we have pedro_, Desktop Bugs King, always trying to get close to beat SÃ©b with his Karma points :)
<dholbach> who else do we have here? who did I miss?
<dholbach> who of you is interested in becoming a MOTU and joining the team?
 * effie_jayx raises hand
<dholbach> effie_jayx: great to have you here
 * warp10 raises hend
<lool> dholbach: Don't say "as much", one of SÃ©b and me must be better than the other, you got to name the best of us two
<dholbach> warp10: great :)
<lool> :-P
<dholbach> jono wants to become a MOTU too :-)
 * Hobbsee wants to become a motu!  :P
 * dholbach hugs Hobbsee
 * lool just became a MOTU
<MrLimeni> I'm Dino Rastoder, and i am student at computer science. I'm very interested in becoming a MOTU.
<dholbach> lool: I wouldn't try to make that decision - you guys ROCK :)
 * proppy raises a finger
<dholbach> nice, great to have you all here
<jono> this is great
<jono> :)
 * txwikinge2 waves 
 * norsetto obliges proppy to open that damn hand
<dholbach> do we have questions already?
<jono> can I make one small statement dholbach?
<dholbach> jono: sure
<jono> I would just like to encourage all existing MOTUs and all new prospective MOTUs to spread the word about MOTU and blog about it - I would love to see new MOTUs blogging about their progress
<dholbach> this session is completely free-form: so please interrupt and ask whenever you have a question or a statement to make
<deadwill> heya
<dholbach> jono: very good point
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  do we use #ubuntu-classroom-chat for Q's?
<jono> MOTU is going to be a real focus in the coming year, so I would love to see us all advocate people getting involved
<jono> :)
<dholbach> it'd be great to have more coverage on planet ubuntu, also setting up a blog at wordpress.com should be just a matter of a few clicks
<dholbach> effie_jayx: no, just ask in here
<dholbach> do we have questions already?
<dholbach> who of you played with packaging tools already?
<txwikinge2> dholbach: hwo is it with the package names for different releases. DO they change even nothing in the package changes?
<MrLimeni> What are responsibility  of a MOTU?
<effie_jayx> dholbach, Your last session on packaging on Open Week was awesome. very "human", I wanted to find the logs to it. but I found it was your first talk on both logfiles
 * txwikinge2 is playing with the packaging tools
<dholbach> txwikinge2: if there are no changes during a releases, the package is unchanged but will be transferred into the new "release pocket"
<dholbach> so assume we had  package (1.2.3)  in feisty and it had no changes during gutsy
<dholbach> then it will be   package (1.2.3)  in hardy too
<dholbach> txwikinge2: does that answer the question?
<txwikinge2> but you have to change the gutsy->hardy in the changelog file ?
<dholbach> txwikinge2: only if you do an upload to hardy
<dholbach> some packages have changelog entries that date back to edgy, some might even date back to warty
<txwikinge2> ah ok.. thanks
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> MrLimeni: that completely depends on your interests
<dholbach> MrLimeni: some MOTUs have a narrow interest in just a few packages, some try to help with every QA task they can find
<dholbach> we have people who are interested in ruby or python or games and they work closely with the debian team counterparts
<dholbach> some MOTUs help with transitions, for example porting all packages that use libabc1 to libabc2, and so on
<dholbach> we always try to have all packages installable and buildable, that sometimes requires quite an amount of work too
<proppy> do we have to fill a debian bugs or a ubuntu bugs for each ubuntu or debian counterpart ?
<dholbach> if you decide to take care of a certain package or a class of packages, you are responsible for keeping the package in a good shape:
<dholbach>  - take care of bug reports and fix them or forward them upstream
<proppy> or is this a good idea to work only in one place, and then get the result synced ?
<dholbach>  - keep the package updated
<dholbach>  - talk to the debian maintainer, etc
<dholbach> MrLimeni: I hope that helps to answer the question
<dholbach> effie_jayx: thanks for the kind words :)
<MrLimeni> ok, now i have some ideas
<dholbach> great
<MrLimeni> tnx
<dholbach> proppy: some people decide to talk to the debian teams in IRC, some send emails to mailing lists, some file bug reports
<dholbach> there's a variety of ways to get involved with each other
<dholbach> proppy: I personally think that during merging it's a good idea to forward changes upstream
<dholbach> at the end of the release cycle things are usually too hectic to get everything included upstream
<proppy> dholbach: i.e yesterday I fill a new upstream version bug for debian, I don't know if it a good practice to also fill one on launchpad and to link the debbugs ?, or just to ask for a sync when it's one on the debian part ?
 * norsetto thinks it is a VERY good idea during merging to forward changes upstream
<dholbach> but close bonds between maintainers and teams are very important, it helps to not duplicate work
<dholbach> proppy: it might depend on how active the debian maintainer is
<dholbach> proppy: if you're under the impression that the new version is important and it does not happen, you can always file a bug in ubuntu or do it yourself
 * norsetto upstream meaning especially debian
<proppy> dholbach: but filling two bugs, one on ubuntu and one on debian, could lead to duplicate work too, due to lack of coordination ?
<dholbach> proppy: the good thing is that the bug status in LP is updated automatically
<dholbach> so we know if the fix has landed in debian
<dholbach> welcome ntovar
<proppy> I mean in the hypothetical case that there is lack of coordination on a specific issue, I'm not speaking in general team
<proppy> ok
<dholbach> we can't rule out that some duplication happens
<dholbach> that's why close ties are important
<dholbach> any more questions?
<dholbach> I noticed that only a few of you have started working with packaging tools yet
<dholbach> one page that's worth reading is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<proppy> what about ITP versus Needs-packaging ?
<proppy> is it a good pratice to fill both ?
<proppy> when working on a new package
<dholbach> it references all the important steps you need to go through
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  how can we help for the next release? I have some minor experience with pbuilder and I can say I know my motu ABC
<dholbach> proppy: we have no policy telling you to file an ITP or RFC
<dholbach> ITP in Debian means "Intent to Package", so you should only file it if you REALLY want to maintain the package in debian
<dholbach> sorry, I meant RFP above
<dholbach> RFP means "Request For Package"
<proppy> dholbach: but what is the usage (not the policy) ?
<dholbach> something I used to do, when I packaged a new piece of software, for example when I packaged 'glom': follow up on the debian bug report saying "please package glom", I said "I packaged it for Ubuntu, grab the source package at http..."
<dholbach> effie_jayx: nice, there are LOTS of things you can do
<dholbach> we link lots of interesting tasks on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO
<proppy> dholbach: I was just worried if I should fill an itp for the needs-packaging bugs I'm working on
<proppy> dholbach: thanks for the explanation :)
<dholbach> 'bitesize' bugs for example are bugs that are suited for new contributors, because they're likely to be easy
<dholbach> 'packaging' bugs refer to bugs that are not in the source code of the package, but in the packaging itself and can be easy
<effie_jayx> dholbach, Could I comment on something?
<dholbach> we have 'upgrade' bugs, where users request new upstream versions of a package, this can be easy too, if you follow the 'update a package' recipe on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes
<dholbach> effie_jayx: sure
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  One of the most difficult things about helping out doing MOTU work is that people like you help out alot ... but people in the channel are at times busy building stuff for ubuntu and have little time to check your stuff. People in #ubuntu-motu are AWESOM but they lack the time for doing MOTU stuff. we would need more people just there to mentor little grasshoppers like us
<dholbach> also we have the huge list of 'needs-packaging' bugs, where users request new software to finally get packaged
<dholbach> effie_jayx: you can always drop a mail to ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  aha... that I didn't know :D
<dholbach> effie_jayx: also ask norsetto about the mentor process he's currently trying to improve - it's not set in stone yet, but we're trying to work out mentoring
<dholbach> it's a tough one because we have limited resources
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  yes... and lot's to do... MOTUS have lots to do
<dholbach> your best bets are #ubuntu-motu, ubuntu-motu-mentors@lists.ubuntu.com for general questions
<proppy> what about #ubuntu-mentors ?
<dholbach> and if you want to get your package or patch reviewed: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages
<dholbach> proppy: I wouldn't like to open yet another IRC channel, but if you think it makes sense, you could discuss the idea on ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com
<norsetto> proppy: well, the idea is that we whould really not separate metnoring from the normal process flow
<dholbach> good point norsetto
<dholbach> we want people to go through the regular process as quickly as possible... if they need help to get started, that's fine, but things like the sponsorship process (getting packages reviewed and uploaded by somebody who's in the MOTU team already) are a must of everybody to go through
 * Hobbsee is also going to have a whole stack of bitesize bugs, soon, too.
<dholbach> Hobbsee: file / tag those bugs? or fix them yourself?
 * norsetto knows that Hobbsee is very good at bitesizing
<Hobbsee> file
<dholbach> NICE
 * dholbach hugs Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> they'll be good for new people to fix :)
<dholbach> everybody give Hobbsee a hug :)
<Hobbsee> but that will be after the merge season
<Hobbsee> (after the autosync stops)
<dholbach> MOTU is also a lot about hugging... :)
 * proppy nugs Hobbsee
<proppy> oups
 * Hobbsee hugs proppy back :)
<dholbach> :-)
 * effie_jayx hugs Hobbsee 
<Hobbsee> :)
<dholbach> referenced from http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
<dholbach> you will find http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes (tutorials how to play with the tools we use every day)
<dholbach> and also http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - which I'm currently working on, so if you have any advice, question or problem, please let me know
<dholbach> did anybody bring a packaging problem along today?
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  a note on the debdiff wiki would be good
<dholbach> can we solve a practical problem today? :)
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  let me give you link
 * txwikinge2 hugs Hobbsee
<dholbach> effie_jayx: ok :)
<effie_jayx> I was drowning on papercup
<Hobbsee> yeah.  everyone can do a problem of my optoelectronics paper tomorrow.  thanks for offering :)
 * dholbach sees the new MOTU motto already: "MOTU - we solve ALL your problems!"
<Hobbsee> :D
<dholbach> :)
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes/Debdiff <--- after I generate the debdiff there is a very scary message saying the public key cannot be berified
<Hobbsee> dholbach: "what's the difference bewteen all the build systems, and all the patch systems?  do i care?  which one should i use?  which one is "better"?"
<effie_jayx> so I thought there must be something wrong with my gpg key
<Hobbsee> dholbach: how's that for a question? :)
<dholbach> effie_jayx: did you add a changelog entry?
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  I did... one that matches my key
<dholbach> effie_jayx: is exactly that name and email address on your gpg key?
<norsetto> dholbach: no, thats becuase of the key used to sign the original .dsc
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  yes
<dholbach> norsetto: ahhh, right
<effie_jayx> norsetto,  right
<dholbach> good point
<effie_jayx> so that was the problem
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: you dont sign debdiffs :)
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  for one ... that's true
<Hobbsee> they'd never apply, if you did.  they're just special forms of patches.
<dholbach> effie_jayx: ok, we can add a note explaining to ignore that message
<dholbach> Hobbsee: good question
<effie_jayx> Hobbsee,  but mee as a MOTU-noob... It scared me...
<Hobbsee> effie_jayx: fair enough :)
<dholbach> in Debian and Ubuntu packaging there's a variety of build and patch systems
<Hobbsee> dholbach: oh, and how do i tell the different build systems apart?  why are some debian/rules files so much shorter than others?
<dholbach> most packages make use of debhelper in debian/rules
<dholbach> debhelper contains a bunch of scripts to make a maintainer's life easier
<dholbach> a simple example is  dh_desktop , which will add a postinst and prerm to the package that will update the desktop file database
<dholbach> it safes a lot of hassle and copy/paste-ing existing code
<dholbach> CDBS is used quite heavily by GNOME and KDE packages for example
<dholbach> which simplifies debian/rules (which is the Makefile to build the package) even further
<proppy> dholbach: do I need to understand dh_* call when working on a package, or should I just blind copying them form dh_make, and read the man when needed ?
<dholbach> CDBS contains Makefile snippets, that are 'controlled' by variables you can set
<dholbach> proppy: it's in your interest to know them - in most cases copy/paste-ing might work for you or might not, you'll be only able to fix issues, if you know what the tools are for
<dholbach> I generally encourage to work on existing packages and do only small modifications
<dholbach> which brings me to Hobbsee's other question: "do I need to care?"
<dholbach> the answer is: it depends
<dholbach> if you only package your own software and package it "your way", you don't need to care
<proppy> dholbach: what about the order of dh_* call is it documented somewhere, or should I trust and copy that from existing package ?
<dholbach> but if work on a variety of packages and fix a variety of bugs, as most MOTUs do, you will need to learn the individual patch/build systems that are used by the packages
<Hobbsee> and if you ever have to install yada, RUN AWAY!!!
<dholbach> proppy: the debian policy should contain information about that
<Hobbsee> death to all yada!
<effie_jayx> hehehe
<dholbach> we have pretty good documentation of all patch systems in the packaging guide
<dholbach> any more questions?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: please add that to the faq, btw
<dholbach> Hobbsee: it is already there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/FAQ
<dholbach> "I need to fix a bug in the upstream provided source, modify the source or add a patch?"
<Hobbsee> that's different.
<dholbach> . o O { I'm the wiki slave... :-) }
<dholbach> Hobbsee: what do you think should be in the FAQ then?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: the stuff about what the differences are betwen the build systems, and patch systems, and if you ened to care.
 * Hobbsee queries
<dholbach> Hobbsee: OK, added a note in my todo list
<Hobbsee> dholbach: (both groups of questions need to be there)
<dholbach> right, thanks for the suggestion
<dholbach> any more questions? who of you is going to get started with the MOTU process next?
<dholbach> any ideas what you'll be working on or get started with?
<txwikinge2> dholbach: I have uploaded two new pacakges to revu.. .what do I do now?
<dholbach> txwikinge2: NEW packages?
<txwikinge2> well.. packages not existing in ubuntu yet
<Hobbsee> (where NEW == new to ubuntu)
<Hobbsee> as opposed to packages already there, but an older version
 * norsetto notes that we have regular REVU days on every monday now
<dholbach> txwikinge2: does the package in Ubuntu exist already?
<txwikinge2> no
<dholbach> right
<dholbach> what you can do is:
<dholbach>  - ask for a review in #ubuntu-motu
<dholbach>  - ask on ubuntu-motu-mentors@
<dholbach>  - file a bugs, mark it as 'fix committed' and tag as 'needs-packaging' - that way it will show up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring
<dholbach> other than that, as norsetto noted we have weekly REVU days
<txwikinge2> ok
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> txwikinge2: let me know if you should still get no review of it
<txwikinge2> ok
<dholbach> for those of you interested in becoming a MOTU: any ideas what you'll be working on or get started with?
<dholbach> jono: ^ :-)
<dholbach> anybody else? :)
<proppy> dholbach: working on NEW package as well, have working on existing bugs when I find some
<jono> I think I am going to continue to learn how to package existing stuff and then pick something
<dholbach> I always like to plug seb128's and lool's team: if you're interested in Desktop Stuff: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO has a LOT of stuff to get involved with
<norsetto> txwikinge2: having a new package in ubuntu can be a very frustrating experience, don't be discouraged easily
<txwikinge2> I think I will look at some of the bitesize stuff next
<proppy> dholbach: and when norsetto ask me too
<jono> would be fun to contribute to a team
<Hobbsee> dholbach: am i better off to put new packages into ubuntu, or fix bugs in current packages?  does it make any difference, in getting MOTU?
<jono> the main thing I need to learn right now is how packaging works :P
<txwikinge2> norsetto: Don't worry.. I won't .. I just don't want to get on peep's nerves either :)
<dholbach> Hobbsee: to become a MOTU it's important that we see so many good contributions (in whatever form) to Ubuntu, that we trust you and see that you do good work
<dholbach> the rest is your decision and your interest
<dholbach> sky's the limit
<jono> could I package audio files for ubuntu?
<Hobbsee> dholbach: so the suggestion would be to go with bugfixes, as the new packages take so long?
<jono> like another example-content
<txwikinge2> for the login sound?
<dholbach> Hobbsee: if you want some new package included in ubuntu really badly, you will have to do that :)
<Hobbsee> dholbach: yes, but if i dont care, i just want to contribute somewhere?
<dholbach> jono: sure, only the licensing and size is important
<dholbach> Hobbsee: I personally learnt a lot by fixing/modifying existing packages
<jono> dholbach: right
<Hobbsee> ok
<dholbach> I would not discourage people from packaging new stuff :)
<dholbach> we're close to the end of the session
<dholbach> one thing I'd like to encourage you all to do is:
<dholbach>  - please drop me mail with your MOTU experience: complaints, praise, suggestions, etc - I'll try to help and make things better
<dholbach>  - spread the word about MOTU: blog about it, let people know
 * norsetto is not looking forward to have mike portnoy best of collection in ubuntu
<dholbach>  - make Universe ROCK :-)
 * txwikinge2 doesn't have a blog yet
<dholbach> any final words? :-)
<dholbach> ok... have a great day then!
<Hobbsee> I'd like to also point out that the MOTU are almost all volunteers - so it would be unwise to demand your stuff gets done immediately, etc.  we have queues for a reason, and we don't take kindly to someone filing 50 bugs, then complaining when they arent all uploaded the next day.  we have stuff to implement too.
<txwikinge2> thanks dholbach
<Hobbsee> (which also applies to reviews, etc)
<dholbach> we'll have another Q&A session next week - I'll announce the details ~mid next week
<Hobbsee> i'd also like to point out that you dont need to be a super-l33t coder to be a MOTU
<Hobbsee> if you want to do it, you'll be able to.  sky is the limit, and all.
<dholbach> but we do our best to keep queues as short as possible :)
<norsetto> dholbach: link as usual for the log , plz .....
<Hobbsee> and i'd also like to thank dholbach for running an excellent session.
 * Hobbsee hugs dholbach
<dholbach> thanks a lot Hobbsee :)
 * dholbach hugs y'all
<proppy> thanks
 * norsetto hugs dhlobach too
<norsetto> dhlobach, who is he?
<dholbach> norsetto: http://daniel.holba.ch/temp
<dholbach> norsetto: thanks for wiki-fying
<norsetto> danke dhlobach (whoever you are)
<Mez> norsetto, dholbach =Daniel Holbach
<effie_jayx> dholbach,  thank you
<dholbach> anytime... it was my pleasure :)
<dholbach> see you in #ubuntu-motu
<ruthbuzzard> hello
<ruthbuzzard> are you here icangoogleit
<ruthbuzzard> are you here icangoogleit
<icangoogleit> ruthbuzzard
<icangoogleit> hi
<ruthbuzzard> hey there
<ruthbuzzard> ok what did you want now
<icangoogleit> ok
<icangoogleit> what cpu / vid card do you have?
<ruthbuzzard> amd athlon 3000+ and nvidia 6200
<icangoogleit> gotcha
<icangoogleit> nice btw ;)
<icangoogleit> using gnome - based?
<ruthbuzzard> yes
<icangoogleit> good.
<icangoogleit> applications > accessories > terminal
<ruthbuzzard> used to use xubuntu but needs xfce upgrade and ubuntu seems to be a bit faster now
<icangoogleit> mm?
<ruthbuzzard> ok
<icangoogleit> so its not xubuntu anymore?
<ruthbuzzard> yes
<icangoogleit> did you take it out and put gnome in via a reinstall or something?
<ruthbuzzard> clean install of ubuntu gusty
<icangoogleit> gotcha ;)
<icangoogleit> congrats btw
<ruthbuzzard> thanks
<icangoogleit> sudo apt-get install ccsm emerald
<ruthbuzzard> like gusty now hated edgy
<icangoogleit> lol
 * icangoogleit loves edgy
<icangoogleit> i may still downgrade lol
<icangoogleit> shoot i might go back to lts
<ruthbuzzard> lol
<icangoogleit> tho then i have to compile gtkpod for my cell phone ;_;
<ruthbuzzard> sudo apt-get install compizconfig-settings-manager
<ruthbuzzard> is what that other told me to do and i did it already
<icangoogleit> er right
<icangoogleit> that one
<icangoogleit> sorry
<icangoogleit> but now install emerald
<ruthbuzzard> ok
<icangoogleit> [that has the shiney new themes]
<ruthbuzzard> got syntax
<ruthbuzzard> or synaptic
<icangoogleit> synaptic is fine
<ruthbuzzard> or sudo apt-get install emerald
<icangoogleit> package emerald though
<icangoogleit> ruthbuzzard synaptic is a front end for apt
<ruthbuzzard> yeah I know
<icangoogleit> ok :)
<icangoogleit> so either one is fine
 * ruthbuzzard no tyring to sound cocky
<ruthbuzzard> oopps
<ruthbuzzard> I like cli better cept 4 burning and such
<icangoogleit> gotcha
<icangoogleit> for burning nothing beats k3b.
<icangoogleit> period.
<ruthbuzzard> have installed slackware and gentoo b4 so no scared just can't keep up with changes
<icangoogleit> its the ONLY one in nix to have verification
<icangoogleit> gotcah
<ruthbuzzard> in ubuntu
<icangoogleit> gotcha
<ruthbuzzard> ok sudo apt-get install e3merald
<ruthbuzzard> opps -3
<icangoogleit> hehe
<icangoogleit> yes
<ruthbuzzard> ok done
<ruthbuzzard> emerald theme manager
<ruthbuzzard> or what
<ruthbuzzard> are you still there
<icangoogleit> sorry
<icangoogleit> yes
<icangoogleit> yeah em theme manager open that and then another terminal
<ruthbuzzard> ok I thought I lost you
<ruthbuzzard> ok
<icangoogleit> click on repositories tab
<ruthbuzzard> ok
<icangoogleit> look at mssg towards bottom of that tab and do in terminal
<icangoogleit> svn ls https://svn.generation.no/emeraldthemes
<icangoogleit> you need subversion in to do that
<icangoogleit> awesome themes in there
<ruthbuzzard> install subversion
<ruthbuzzard> :~$ svn ls https://svn.generation.no/emeraldthemes
<ruthbuzzard> The program 'svn' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
<ruthbuzzard> sudo apt-get install subversion
<ruthbuzzard> bash: svn: command not found
<ruthbuzzard> yes?
<icangoogleit> sudo apt-get install subversion
<icangoogleit> :)
<ruthbuzzard> ok
<ruthbuzzard> just don't want to mess up X
<ruthbuzzard> sorry
<icangoogleit> no trippin :)
<ruthbuzzard> cool
<ruthbuzzard> permanently
<ruthbuzzard> ok accepted permanently now what
<icangoogleit> great
<icangoogleit> now look in the themes for emerald and there are lots of them
<icangoogleit> ok great now alt+f2
<icangoogleit> in run box: ccsm
<ruthbuzzard> no themes
<icangoogleit> no themes in ccsm
<icangoogleit> now click cube-rotate
<icangoogleit> and accept that you have to turn on cube and turn off some other plugin
<icangoogleit> scroll down make sure that wobbly is on [disables another to do that]
<icangoogleit> and that window decorations is on
<icangoogleit> and that cube-caps is on
<ruthbuzzard> wobbly windows
<icangoogleit> then if your not in c-f turn it on via right click on desktop > change background > far right tab [appearances?/effects?] > custom
<icangoogleit> ruthbuzzard yes wobbly windows
<icangoogleit> you can find these things by typing first few letters in the search box on top left of ccsm
<ruthbuzzard> ok
<ruthbuzzard> now what
<ruthbuzzard> how make spin
<icangoogleit> cube-rotate plugin
<icangoogleit> so to do it push ctrl+alt+[left or right] arrow
<ruthbuzzard> and have to enable 4 windows
<icangoogleit> or scroll click with mouse and move around
<icangoogleit> ruthbuzzard er and that
<icangoogleit> ccsm > general > third tab [i think]
<icangoogleit> 4 virtual horizontal 1 vertical 1 desktop
<icangoogleit> ok cigarette for me bbiab
<ruthbuzzard> what is bbiab
<ruthbuzzard> be back in a bit?
<ruthbuzzard> cool this works very well in gusty but lost ablility to type in this box for a min
<ruthbuzzard> opps ability
<ruthbuzzard> how do enable more workspaces
<ruthbuzzard> and does water effect work well
<ruthbuzzard> and am I allowed to make 4 different desktop wall papers now too?
<ruthbuzzard> and I still have no extra themes
<icangoogleit> ok
<icangoogleit> ok
<icangoogleit> ccsm > general settings > desktop size
<icangoogleit> follow the guide i gave above
<icangoogleit> <icangoogleit> 4 virtual horizontal 1 vertical 1 desktop
<icangoogleit> there is a wallpaper plugin but ive never personally figured how to get it to work out of boredom
<icangoogleit> water effect will pwn your card
<ruthbuzzard> oh
<ruthbuzzard> I still have no extra themes
<icangoogleit> mm
<icangoogleit> nothing in emerald-theme-manager?
<icangoogleit> oh
<icangoogleit> now that you did that one bit
<ruthbuzzard> I cannot switch to top or bottom of cube?
<icangoogleit> you need to go to that repo tab and import themes
<icangoogleit> ruthbuzzard no thats in beryl not compiz atm
<icangoogleit> c-f rather
<ruthbuzzard> c-f is compiz fusion
<icangoogleit> yes
<ruthbuzzard> so there is no top and bottom
<icangoogleit> btw #compiz-fusion is their official chan
<icangoogleit> ruthbuzzard thats the cube-caps plugin
<icangoogleit> enable that in ccsm
<ruthbuzzard> ok
<ruthbuzzard> cubes caps is enabled
<icangoogleit> ^_^
<ruthbuzzard> where do I import the themes from
<icangoogleit> .....
<icangoogleit> emerald-theme-manager >> repo tab >> import non-gpl'd themes
<icangoogleit> http://www.gnome-look.org/?xcontentmode=102&PHPSESSID=7c0d62a2d08768ab800bdba77809d67b
<ruthbuzzard> error calling tar
<icangoogleit> dont touch it
<icangoogleit> there are like 3 errors
<icangoogleit> just wait approx 1-2 min then push the X on top right of the error
<ruthbuzzard> what is pressed ok
<ruthbuzzard> sorry I clicked ok
<icangoogleit> er
<icangoogleit> ok?
<ruthbuzzard> hello
<ruthbuzzard> sorry something happened there but now have themes thanks
<ruthbuzzard> are you still there icangoogleit
<icangoogleit> wb
<icangoogleit> :)
<icangoogleit> fyi - in compiz-fuison wierd things can happen now and then
<icangoogleit> if your xchat icon ever leaves tray just turn it off in xchat preferences and then back on :>
<icangoogleit> same with utorrent via wine and a few others
<ruthbuzzard> hey how come the themes don't come on when I click them
<icangoogleit> oh
<icangoogleit> alt+f2
<icangoogleit> type: emerald --replace
<icangoogleit> ruthbuzzard worked right?
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-11-17
<RainCT> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: November 17 2007, 10:21:13 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 5 days
<persia> Oops.  Forgot to update the fridge.  Next meeting: Stacktracing (in 30 minutes).
<pochu> persia: ping, you ready? :)
<persia> pochu: Yep.  The fridge didn't get updated :(  Starting in ~200 seconds...
<pochu> yeah, although LaserJock said he updated it...
<persia> @now
<ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: November 17 2007, 10:58:27 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 5 days
<persia> OK.  Welcome the session on reading stacktraces.
<persia> The value of reading stacktraces is that one can more easily track down the crash bugs, and find out where in the code the crash happens, and why.
<chantra> hi there
<persia> Hmm.  Maybe I should wait a couple more minutes.
<geser> Hi persia
<persia> hi geser
<persia> Welcome to the session on reading stacktraces (for real, this time) :)
<persia> The value of reading stacktraces is that one can more easily track down the crash bugs, and find out where in the code the crash happens, and why.
<persia> Ubuntu ships with an automatic crash reporting system called apport, which files lots and lots of bugs on launchpad, and attaches stack traces showing where the crash happened.
<persia> The goal of today's session is for everyone to be able to read these stacktraces, and identify the type of problem that is happening.
<persia> A stacktrace consists of a listing of the stack at the time of the crash.  Each frame indicates one layer deeper towards the call that crashes, so the top of a stack trace is where the problem occurs, and the bottom of a stacktrace is where the thread starts.
<persia> For examples, we'll be reviewing stack traces in lincity-ng, sunclock, and vlc.  If you're planning on following closely, you might want to download the source for those packages now.
<geser> persia: gutsy or hardy?
<persia> As we go through the bugs, please feel free to interrupt and ask questions at any time.  Further, I'll be looking to all of you to help figure out the issue with each frame, and help move forward.
<persia> geser: Generally I find that the latest source still exposes the problem.  The specific reports are feisty for lincity-ng and sunclock, and gutsy for vlc.
<persia> To expand upon that, it can be easier to understand a specific issue when looking at the source that matches the reported error, but it is often more interesting to look at the current source, as if the issue is to be fixed, the current source is where the fix is required.
<persia> Our first bug is #89554 in lincity-ng (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lincity-ng/+bug/89554).
<persia> This is a fairly standard apport report, with a normal level of detail as to how to reproduce "I was just playing the game and it crashed.".  We'll be looking at the stacktrace to turn this information into something useful, and try to provide hints towards a possible solution.
<persia> The first place we'll look is the "Stacktrace.txt (retraced)" in the third comment.
<persia> Each section starts with a frame number (e.g. #0, #1, #2, etc.) and lists the function called, the location of that function in the source, and some of the variable values.
<persia> So, looking quickly at the function names, we see "do_power_line" at #0, "do_time_step" at #1, "execute_timestep" at #2, and "Game::run" at #3.  Would anyone like to guess what the program was doing when it crashed?
<txwikinger> something with a powerline:)
<persia> txwikinger: Yep.  The package description for lincity describes it as a City simulator game.
<persia> Any guesses for what the game is doing in a more general sense?
<Kmos> persia: designing the main window ?
<geser> it was computing the next simulation step when it crashed
<Kmos> before go into the main()
<persia> Kmos: I'm not sure how we'd guess that from the function names.
<persia> geser: That sounds about right.
<Kmos> persia: maybe from the variables and at #7 it says Start
<persia> My thinking would be that the game is running (#3), and some time is passing (#2), so it does something (#1), and that something includes powerlines (#0).
<Kmos> _start
<Kmos> :)
<persia> Kmos: Remember that a stacktrace is backwards.  #0 is the place where it crashed, and #7 is when the process started.
<Kmos> persia: ah ok thx
<persia> When looking at stack traces, I usually like to start a little further back than #0, to develop a better understanding of what is happening.  Is anyone still waiting for a source download?
<persia> OK.  Let's start with #2: execute_timestep.  The goal is not to understand perfectly, but only to get some idea of the naming conventions, code conventions, and variables used in the program.  Please open src/lincity-ng/MainLincity.cpp in the lincity-ng source, and move to line 66.
<persia> You'll see that do_time_step (actually on line 68 for current code) is called with no arguments, and doesn't appear to be in any conditional structures.
<persia> Further, the general function runs every 10 seconds or so, does the update, and redraws the map.  We don't need a higher level of detail here: we're just building context.
<persia> Does anyone have any questions about execute_timestamp?
<persia> Err..  execute_timestep
<persia> OK.  So the next function on our list is do_time_step from #1, in src/lincity/simulate.cpp.
<persia> Does everyone see that?
<txwikinger> yes
<pochu> yes
<RainCT> yes, but stacktrace says line153 but do_time_step  goes from 58 to 87
<persia> RainCT: Right.  This is a case of the code changing since the stack trace was taken.  Any guess on which line we really want to look at for the current source?
<robdi1> 79?
<pochu> 80?
<RainCT> uh, there's indeed a do_power_line call in 157 but it's in a different function, simulate_mappoints
<txwikinger> I have the do_power_line call in lin 153 in teh function simulate_mappoints which is called in line 82
<persia> So, 79 & 80 are good guesses, because that mentions "power", but 157 is correct, because simulate_mappoints is called in line 82.
<persia> txwikinger: Perfect (and faster than I)
<persia> So, we'll now try to figure how what is happening by reviewing both do_time_step and simulate_mappoints.
<robdi1> so did the optimizer get rid of the call at 82? otherwise it should be on the stack also?
<geser> lincity-ng 1.0.3 and 1.1.1 differ only in line numbers
<persia> robdi1: That's likely: I don't actually understand optimizers enough to be sure.
<persia> So, do_time_step initialises some things, and calls simulate_mappoints.
<txwikinger> I think the function simulate_mappoints is only called this one time, so the optimizer just moves the code in there
<geser> robdi1: probably as simulate_mappoints is only called on line 82
<persia> simulate_mappoints reviews each of the map points, and calls a huge switch statement, but doesn't appear to do much processing.  As a result, we won't learn a lot here, but we do want to understand the nature of the arguments to do_power_line.  Would anyone like to guess as to what the arguments should be?
<txwikinger> the position on the map
<persia> txwikinger: Sounds sane.  How about the data type?
<RainCT> int?
<persia> RainCT: Right.  You can see that from lines 116 and 118 in the current source.
<persia> So, back to the stack trace, we see that x=1 and y=41 in #0, so we have a pretty good idea what do_power_line is supposed to do.  Let's look at that next.
<RainCT> is the :22 the line where the function starts or where the app crashed?
<persia> RainCT: That's where the app crashed.
<pochu> is -> a pointer? (me doesn't know c++)
<geser> pochu: the part before -> is the pointer (here to a struct)
<persia> pochu: I think it's a reference to a struct, but I'm not entirely sure.
<geser> the struct is described in src/lincity/power.h
<persia> In this case, we're not sure what it is, but we'll want to look at the type.  You can see that it checks "grid", so we'll look through the include files to find it (or listen to geser, who is fast) :)
<geser> persia: as we are after a segfault, should we look instead on what MP_INFO does?
<persia> So, the struct defines a "powered", which is a "short", and so should be allowed so that's not the problem.  next is to figure out what the MP_INFO call is returning.
<persia> geser: Yes.  I just need a faster keyboard :)
<robdi1> power.h:19 shows grid is of type Grid which is typedef'd to the grid_struct on 15
<persia> So, again, we'll look through the headers to find what MP_INFO means.  Anyone want to suggest a file and line number?
<persia> robdi1: Exactly.
<geser> src/lincity/engglobs.h, line 29
<chantra> which define the struct map_struct
<persia> Does everyone see that now?  The relevant structure is defined starting on line 14.  Any guesses on why it might segfault when called with x=1, y=41?
<chantra> with Map_Point_Info info[WORLD_SIDE_LEN][WORLD_SIDE_LEN] where WORLD_SIDE_LEN is 100 (lin-city.h line 227)
<persia> chantra: Good find: it's probably not an out-of-bounds issue.  Anyone else?
<chantra> well, long time since I program c, but it sounds line it should point to it instead of using . ?
<albert23> because it expects to get shorts but is called with int?
<persia> albert23: That might be it for larger values, but 41 should be safe to convert to short.
<geser> albert23: where does it expects short? [...][...] is a two-dimensional array
<chantra> persia: ma.info returns a Map_Point_Info
<persia> So, at this point, we can say "lincity-ng may crash when testing if certain map elements are powered".  I think we'd have to read a lot more of the source to solve the problem, but we now have a somewhat more informative report than "I was just playing the game and it crashed.".  Would anyone like to volunteer to update the bug?
 * pochu can
<pochu> Although I'm not sure I've followed the final steps
<chantra> is Map_Point_Info an int ....
<txwikinger> cool.. we haven't even played it :D
<pochu> woops, his terminal crashes, let's debug it! :)
<persia> txwikinger: Right.  This isn't the "reproduce the bug & fix it" session, only the stacktrace session :)
 * RainCT got lost here Â«Map_Point_Info info[WORLD_SIDE_LEN][WORLD_SIDE_LEN];Â»
<geser> persia: it would be nice to have to core file to lookup that value of MAP_INFO(x,y)
<persia> RainCT: That's OK.  It takes a deeper understanding of the code to fix it, the goal here is to understand the bug well enough to document it.
<persia> geser: Yes.  talk to pitti: core files are deleted to save attachment space.
 * tman__ typed the wrong ctrl-alt .... page-down is too close to backspace :D
<persia> So, does anyone have any questions about the process of finding out what happened from the stacktrace before we look at the next one?
<txwikinger> So, what info would you now put into the bug report?
<geser> RainCT: MAP_INFO(x,y) is map.info[x][y] (line 29), map is a Map (line 24) and Map.info is in line 20
<persia> txwikinger: You could report that the problem is with updating the power grid, and maybe a comment saying that it seems related to MAP_INFO.  The idea is to provide enough information that someone familiar with the code might recognise it, rather than it just being another apport bug where the user reported "it crashed"
<txwikinger> ok
<geser> RainCT: and info is a two-dimensional array of Map_Point_Info (described somewhere else (../lin-city.h))
<persia> txwikinger: If you're planning to code to fix it, then of course, you want to know more, but it's a good first step to identify the type of problem.
<txwikinger> true.. so the summary should also be more specific
<persia> txwikinger: Right.
<txwikinger> ok.. I get it now :)
<persia> So, that's about it for the first bug.  I've a couple more, for those who have more time (it takes about an hour for each, in my experience).  The next bug I selected was #147252 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/147252)
<RainCT> geser: ah ok, thanks. was not sure if info was a multidim or something strange :P
<persia> Would anyone like to make a guess at a good place to start looking at this trace (there are 80 frames)?
<robdi1> which apport  comment are you looking at...there are 3
<RainCT> Stacktrace.txt (retraced) (76.6 KiB, text/plain), or?
<persia> robdi1: I usually start with "Stacktrace.txt (retraced)".  ThreadStacktrace.txt is usually only interesting when there is a thread collision, and StacktraceSource.txt is too confusing for me: I'd rather look at the actual source.
<robdi1> persia: thanks
<chantra> persia:  #0 and up we see something is wrong in filechooser
<chantra> somewhere around 3
<persia> chantra: Right, but the bug is reported against vlc.  Let's back up a bit more, and find something vlc related.  It may be that the bug is reported against the wrong package, but maybe it's a vlc issue.
<chantra> at least, we could avoid looking at internal gsignal in the first place
<persia> chantra: That's the other reason we'll go look for vlc :)
<chantra> :D , last reference to vlc seems to be around #35 then
<geser> #84 is vlc related everything else is wx or gtk/glib
<chantra> #35 0xb581302c in wxvlc::OpenDialog::OnFileBrowse () from /usr/lib/vlc/gui/libwxwidgets_plugin.so
<persia> #84 is the last call to vlc directly, but #35 uses libvlc, which also interests us.
<chantra> when the dialog is open
<chantra> +ed
<persia> On the other hand, 35 frames is a long way from the problem.  Let's walk through a few, and see if we can figure out what is happening: this is a good candidate for not being a vlc bug.
<persia> So, #34 through #32 are the WX calls to wrap the GTK.
<persia> Going back further, we get to #22, where we're emitting a gtk signal, and can pretty safely say this is a deeper problem.
<geser> in frame #1 one sees that path is NULL (iirc strcmp doesn't like NULL pointers) I could check if really NULL is passed to strcmp and check where the NULL comes from
<persia> geser: We could, but we're looking at feisty VLC, and feisty gtk.  In this case, I'd suggest we look for a closed bug in gtk that has a matching stacktrace for the first few frames.
<geser> persia: DistroRelease: Ubuntu 7.10 (from the bug)
<persia> geser: Right.  My mistake.  Thanks.
<geser> and the package version is from gutsy (but not the final one)
<robdi1> and since it was entered on 9/30 was this the released version or a pre-release version?
<persia> robdi1: It would have been a prerelease, but it may not have been the version distributed on 9/30 (depending on when the user updated).
<persia> So, as I don't want to dig deeply in GTK, and I'm not seeing a lot of questions, I'll move forward.  I'd like to ask someone to volunteer to update the bug to point to the right package, and follow the GTK crash bug title model, and note that it crashes in "shortcut_find_position".
<persia> The next bug I selected was #109743 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sunclock/+bug/109743).  Anyone want to suggest a starting point here?
<robdi1> I'll give it a shot. Where would i find info on the GTL crash bug title model?
<robdi1> GTK...my keyboard is still sleepy
<persia> robdi1: I generally guess based on the list of all bugs for the package.  In this case https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bugs
<persia> robdi1: More expicitly, it's not likely to actually be a problem with strcmp(), but rather something in the file chooser, and it should be looked at by the gtk+2.0 maintainers, rather than the vlc maintainers.
<robdi1> thanks
<albert23> persia: for sunclock I would start looking at the null pointer, Context = (struct Sundata *) 0x0
<persia> albert23: That sounds like a good place.  Let's step back a bit and look at showZoomHint first, to get some context to understand why we don't have "Context".
<robdi1> don't have to go back, in draw_button(), when variable is initialized, it is set to NULL, and then used as paramter function getWinParams()
<robdi1> it checks for null after calling getWinParams, so appears to be an output parameter
<persia> robdi1: Good description.  Any ideas what getWinParams is doing?
<persia> (or rather, is intended to do)?
<txwikinger> well..nicely documented source :)
<robdi1> setting Context to point to function ZoomCaller?
<persia> robdi1: Or more generally, setting Context to point to the appropriate function for the update, but yes.
<persia> Now the interesting bit is that the crash is reported on line 576, where for a zoom, we'd expect to see somewhere in line 579-585.
<persia> Looking at the package history, we can see that this is the same file as when it crashed, so we're not just confused from version skew.
<geser> how does it pass the if check with win=0?
<persia> geser: That's an interesting question.  I'd suggest we'd like to find information on what "Option" and "Zoom" are.
<RainCT> extern Window Root, Menu, Filesel, Zoom, Option, Urban;       in line 41
<robdi1> this line looks suspicious to me 576:    *y = OptionGeom.height-2*OptionCaller->gdata->menustrip - 1; do they want (OptionGeom.height-2)*OptionCaller which is a pointer or do they want
<persia> RainCT: Good find.  So, can a "Window" evaluate to "0"?
<robdi1> (OptionGeom.height)-2*OptionGeom
<robdi1> the latter is what they get with C precidence
<geser> did feisty already had a gcc with stackprotector?
<txwikinger> why is the variable Zoom in line 1496 not set?
<persia> I suspect the latter makes more sense: (The height of the options geometry) - (twice the width of the menustrip) - 1.
<txwikinger> this is what populates into win
<RainCT> Option = 0;   line 2092
<persia> txwikinger: It's defined globally: see line 41.
<geser> in #4 win was set to Zoom =77594695, in #1 Zoom is 0
<albert23> Window is defined in sunclock.c, line 344
<persia> geser: Right.  If we take Zoom to be a pointer to something, it apparently got lost somewhere along the way.
<geser> if the memory got corrupted than the strack trace may also be false
<geser> persia: do you know if feisty's gcc had alread stack protector enabled (the last time sunclock got compiled)?
<persia> geser: Right.  The best we can do here is walk the path from #4 to #1 and see if we can figure out why it got lost.
<persia> geser: I don't.
<robdi1> in #2, hint is a char*, but doesn't look like it's pointing to a string
<persia> So, another mystery to add is that line 1492 of widgets.c sets move_pos to -1, and line 1496 (#2) is only supposed to execute if (move_pos>=0).
<geser> robdi1: it wasn't initialized yet (widgets.c:1493)
<geser> persia: static int move_pos
<robdi1> yup, just saw that it gets strcpy'd in 1506
<persia> So, in cases like this, where the stack trace seems to make some sense, but the code doesn't, I usually just set the stacktrace aside, and look for another bug (as I've nothing to add).  Based on you all avidly hunting the problem, I suspect that the format of the stacktrace isn't really the issue anymore :)
<txwikinger> thanks  a lot persia... this was very interesting
<persia> txwikinger: I'm happy to share: I think stacktraces shouldn't be mysterious, and we've a lot that could be useful bugs with a little looking.
<txwikinger> indeed. Now I will even look at them :)
<persia> txwikinger: Don't get discouraged if you run into another sunclock.  Those are hard, and confusing.  Some of them are either just misplaced (like the vlc one), or fairly easy to trace (like the lincity-ng one).
<txwikinger> Well... without looking you don't know what it is :)
<robdi1> persia: if you're still around, could you kindly see if I updated bug 147252 correctly? It is the first time I've updated a bug...
<persia> robdi1: Generally I recommend changing the "Package" for the current task, rather than adding a new task, unless you know there are two things that need doing.
<robdi1> persia: thanks. what would I need to do to make that happen, take VLC off?
<persia> robdi1: Other than that, it looks fine.  Thanks for updating it.
<robdi1> persia: no problem. also, thanks for doing this...it was worth getting up early for...been a long time since I walked stack traces...it was fun.
<persia> robdi1: I don't think there is a way to delete a task once it exists.  To change the associated package for a task, click on one of the upside-down eject symbols, and you can select an alternate package.
<robdi1> persia: ahh. thanks.
#ubuntu-classroom 2007-11-18
<neo2linux420> hello room
<neo2linux420> can anyone here teach me linu8x?
<neo2linux420> hello?
<neo2linux420> anyone here?
<rBUG> teach you how ?
<neo2linux420> hello nareshov
<neo2linux420> rBUG, i want to be 31337 with linu
<neo2linux420> linux*
<neo2linux420> what must i do?
<rBUG> stop talking like that for a start
<neo2linux420> ok
<neo2linux420> i thought that 31337 stood for elite
<rBUG> if your about 5 years old. Yes
<neo2linux420> ok, never mind that
<neo2linux420> so whats your level on linux?
<rBUG> root ;)
<neo2linux420>  ;-)
<neo2linux420> me thinks root O'what
<neo2linux420> ;-)
<neo2linux420> ok, so what did it take to learn what you have learned to be 'root'?!
<neo2linux420>  rBUG Do you know unix?
<rBUG> Yes, thanks
<neo2linux420> is linux just a unix clone
<neo2linux420> ?
<neo2linux420> hello class
<neo2linux420> hi
<neo2linux420> hello
<Hanif07> I need help with this question please. Is it likely that the BIOS for a computer running MS-Windows would be different from that used by a computer running Linux?
<EminX> jrib: I'm here
<jrib> Hanif07: please use #ubuntu, this channel is not very active
<jrib> EminX: ok, what is the name of the package for the dictionary?
<EminX> OpenDict 0.6.2
<jrib> ok
<jrib> type: dpkg -L opendict | grep bin
<EminX> jrib: on the terminal right ?
<jrib> yep
<EminX> that's what I'm seeing now on the terminal:
<EminX> /usr/bin
<EminX> /usr/bin/opendict
<jrib> k, now type 'opendict' without the ''
<EminX> yes, I opened it, but still when I wrote a word on the field of word and pres look up, nothing ?
<jrib> yep, now in your terminal, was there any output?
<EminX> no
<jrib> hmm
<jrib> let me see if I can install it here on arch
<EminX> ok
<EminX> You know that, I've selected on main menu  Dictionaries than English-Albanian,
<EminX> Also i look at the Tools , Manage Dictionaries, and in the Installed table there is that one also (English-Albanian)
<jrib> does that work?
<jrib> can't install here on arch :/
<EminX> no it doesn't work
<EminX> the same problem
<jrib> EminX: what does this return:  grep repository $(dpkg -L opendict | grep config.py)
<EminX> I wrote something ex.  Test, and nothing ?!
<jrib> how about lowercase?
<EminX> nothing again, lowercase
<jrib> try a different language too
<jrib> like french or spanish to english
<EminX> I've tried other lang's
<EminX> that's from terminal
<EminX> self.repository
<jrib> argh
<EminX> self.repository =\
<EminX> serlf.set('rep........
<jrib> yes, that full line
<jrib> are you not on the same computer?  just copy and paste
<EminX> self.set('repository-list', self.repository)
<jrib> ok, do: dpkg -L opendict | grep config.py
<jrib> pastebin the contents of that file
<EminX> /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.py
<jrib> yes, open that in a text editor and pastebin the contents
<EminX> "pastebin" ??? ,
<jrib> !pastebin
<ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<EminX> /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.py
<EminX> what I spouse to do now
<jrib> give me the urs
<jrib> give me the url
<EminX> how can I do it
<jrib> did you copy and paste the contents of the file to paste.ubuntu-nl.org?
<EminX> I copied the file
<EminX> I will paste now
<jrib> and pressed "submit"?
<EminX> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45069/
<jrib> ah
<jrib> I see what's wrong
<EminX> really
<jrib> http://files.opendict.inhangar.com/Repository/Data/opendict-add-ons.xml
<jrib> that's a parked domain now
<EminX> so now, I must change that right ?
<jrib> yep
<EminX> into ?
<jrib> you understand what you need to do?
<jrib> want to edit by hand or want a command?
<EminX> i must replace that row right?
<jrib> do 'gksudo gedit /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.py' and replace 'http://files.opendict.inhangar.com/Repository/Data/opendict-add-ons.xml' with 'http://opendict.sf.net/Repository/Data/opendict-add-ons.xml'
<EminX> can I just open that file  config.py and edit that row right
<EminX> are you there
<jrib> yes
<EminX> i did that what you said  in terminal : do 'gksudo ....  and than just opened a new gpedit window
<jrib> yes
<jrib> use that one
<EminX> without text
<EminX> how to use
<jrib> what version of ubuntu is this?
<EminX> 7.10
<jrib> strange
<EminX> there is nothing on the window,
<jrib> paste exactly the command you entered please
<EminX> i tried to save that
<EminX> could not save the file
<EminX> that's the command I entered in terminal :
<EminX> gedit /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.py' and replace 'http://files.opendict.inhangar.com/Repository/Data/opendict-add-ons.xml' with 'http://opendict.sf.net/Repository/Data/opendict-add-ons.xml
<jrib> no...
<jrib> just:  gksudo gedit /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.py
<EminX> I thought there was a command 'replace '
<EminX> that can replace text in any file, sorry :S
<EminX> that's a shame
<jrib> there is
<jrib> let's do it that way
<jrib> do:
<jrib> sudo sed -i.backup 's#http://files.opendict.inhangar.com/Repository/Data/opendict-add-ons.xml#http://opendict.sf.net/Repository/Data/opendict-add-ons.xml#' /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.py
<jrib> the "do:" is not part of the command by the way :)
<EminX> yep
<EminX> so i must   write to the terminal all  this :
<EminX> sudo sed -i.backup 's#http://files.opendict.inhangar.com/Repository/Data/opendict-add-ons.xml#http://opendict.sf.net/Repository/Data/opendict-add-ons.xml#' /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.py
<EminX> right ?
<EminX> i did it
<jrib> yes
<EminX> but doesn't work
<EminX> again
<jrib> you can check the file in gedit now to make sure it changed
<EminX> ok
<EminX> no it doesn't
<EminX> can't I change manually
<jrib> yes
<EminX> ?
<jrib> that's how I said to do it first
<EminX> I tried before but I couldn't save
<EminX> I'll try again
<jrib> close all gedit windows
<jrib> ok?
<EminX> and terminal also
<jrib> not necessary
<jrib> now do: gksudo 'gedit /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.py'
<EminX> I did it
<EminX> nothing changed
<jrib> now edit the file
<EminX> on the file contents
<EminX> ok I'll try in the file
<jrib> you need to change it
<EminX> I changed it manually , but I can't sve the changes
<jrib> you didn't open it with gksudo then
<EminX> but it won't open with that
<jrib> then you need to say that
<jrib> let's try again
<jrib> close all gedit windows
<jrib> now do: gksudo 'gedit /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.py'
<EminX> with ' ' also
<jrib> yes
<jrib> everything after :
<EminX> now it's opened I will change the http location now
<EminX> man, that's changed but still it won't work, I restarted the application, but the same,
<jrib> pastebin the new file
<EminX> ok
<EminX> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45071/
<jrib> EminX: hmm, maybe try grepping for other instances of the domain
<EminX> how can I find other instances
<jrib> dpkg -L opendict   gives you all the files
<EminX> ok
<jrib> actually, wait
<EminX> yep
<jrib> pastebin 'ls /usr/share/opendict/lib/'
<EminX> ok
<EminX> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/45072/
<jrib> yep
<jrib> delete /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.pyc
<EminX> what is the command, I should do it from terminal right?  If i try manually I don't have the permitions
<jrib> sudo rm /usr/share/opendict/lib/config.pyc
<EminX> it is removed now
<jrib> try the dictionary
<EminX> doesn't work
<jrib> k
<jrib> then you can grep the rest of the code I suppose
<jrib> In any case, file a bug
<EminX> ok,
<EminX> Man thank you very much I appreciate very much for helping me, you lost your time for that, but I learned to much things from you, I'm new on linux but I love this OS, that's just the best, because it has the guys like you, thank you for helping
<jrib> np, hope you sort it out
<EminX> this is not the first time you helped me, I saw very often your name in #ubuntu
<EminX> have a nice time
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-11-10
<ad1> hello, is this the place to learn about linux and ubuntu
<nalioth> ad1: when there are classes scheduled, possibly
<nalioth> your best bet is #ubuntu
<nalioth> or ##linux
<ad1> when r the classes
<IdleOne> ad1: see the topic for related links
<ad1> thanks
<SYDN> jave åªéä¸è½½é¿
<SYDN> è°ç¥éæ64çJAVA é£éä¸è½½
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-11-11
<ludwi1> hallo
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-11-14
<PucKid> hi everyone (:
<popey> not here emmajane ?
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-11-15
 * c00l2sv sleep
<fabrice_sp> !sponsor
<ubot5> Factoid 'sponsor' not found
<histo> Saroset: you there
<Saroset> histo, I'm in here.
<histo> Alright explain to me what happened from the begining.
<Saroset> Okiedokie.
<Saroset> The windows boot manager kept telling me that Windows failed to start when I was attempting to load the Kubuntu install CD.
<Saroset> I asked for advice in IRC and got absolutely nothing, soooo I went out and researched.
<Saroset> I managed, after a few tries, to replace the boot manager.
<histo> what did you do to replace it?
<Saroset> I installed something. It did work.
<histo> Do you remember what that was or how you installed it?
<Saroset> http://www.boot-us.com/
<Saroset> I realized it wouldn't load from CD and then very rapidly managed to delete the windows partition and the boot manager itself. (PEBKAC there.)
<histo> well just so you know the windows error you were receiving had nothign to do with kubuntu.
<Saroset> Hm?
<histo> That error comes up when windows fails to start ex: if you reset the machine while windows is loading. But you can just select "Start windows normally" and it would boot in to windows.
<Saroset> Wasn't trying to boot into Windows. Was attempting to get the Kubuntu CD to load.
<histo> How did you delete the windows partition?
<Saroset> Using boot-us while in windows.
<Saroset> And then... I restarted the computer. *sigh*
<histo> It sounds like you just deleted the mbr not actually the window partition it self.
<Saroset> Hope?
<histo> If you want yoru windows back you can boot a  windows cd in recovery mode then select fixmbr.  If not and you want ot install kubuntu. We need to make sure your machine can atleast boot to a cd.
<histo> Which do you want to do?
<Saroset> Would prefer to try Kubuntu.
<histo> So you don't need any of your windows stuff or data correct?
<Saroset> But! My computer keeps attempting to load to NIC, no matter what I do.
<Saroset> Nope.
<histo> Yeah thats just the bios for the nic.
<histo> Alright can you get in the bios right now and tell me what the boot sequence is set to?
<Saroset> 1. USB Floppy 2.ATAPI CD/DVD ROM Drive 3. Notebook Hard Drive 4. USB Diskette on Key 5. USB Hard Drive 6. (Disabled) Network Adapter
<Saroset> Apparently, disabled means use only.
<histo> no that screen you see is just a post screen built in to your hardware. Its not actually trying to boot off of it.
<histo> alrigth and when you have the kubuntu cd in and try to boot the computer just goes to the network card boot screen?
<Saroset> Yah.
<histo> Alright well disable everything but the cdrom.
<Saroset> Keeps trying to connect, fail, connect, fail.
<histo> Save and exit
<Saroset> Doesn't allow them to be disabled.
<histo> Put the cdrom first
<histo> IS the network card listed in the boot sequence?
<Saroset> As disabled, yes.
<histo> There should be an option in teh bios somewhere for netboot. Look also for a setting called netboot.
<histo> peripherials
<Saroset> Internal Network Adapter Boot?
<histo> yes
<Saroset> Currently disabled.
<histo> k. Now make sure the kubuntu cd is in and save and exit.
<histo> Make sure you watch the screen as it boots it may say something like "press any key to boot from cd"
<histo> Or it may have an option like Press F10 for boot manager.
<Saroset> Nothing. Just jumped straight to attempting boot from network.
<histo> Okay did you see anythign like press F1 or F2 F3 F4 etc... to configure. prior to that screen?
<histo> What kind of laptop is this?
<Saroset> Wait, something about esc for boot menu.
<Saroset> HP.
<histo> Okay hit esc then right when that comes up and select cdrom
<histo> The problem with a lot of these hps is that they put their stupid splash image covering the boot process. But you can usually disable the splash image int he bios settings somewhere.
<Saroset> FFS, it's doing the same thing.
<Saroset> I selected CD/DVD and it sounded like it started.
<Saroset> CD spun.
<histo> Did it say press any key to boto from cd?
<Saroset> Nope.
<Saroset> Boot Menu:
<Saroset> 1.  ATAPI CD/DVD ROM Drive
<histo> Do you have any other cds that are bootable? Like windows or a restore cd for the laptop? Just to make sure.
<Saroset> Hm, one minute while I look around.
<histo> That the kubuntu cd isn't bad.
<Saroset> Found Vista (T_T)
<histo> Put that in and see if it will boot to that.
<histo> Just to make sure we aren't dealing with a bad cd
<Saroset> Yup, it loaded.
<Saroset> I'm... Going to crawl under a rock?
<histo> No not a big deal happens to the best of us.
<histo> I'm not sure if the vista cd has a recovery mode or not.
<Saroset> Wait... Was I just supposed to burn the ISO straight to the CD?
<histo> If it does you can try running fixmbr to fix the master boot record. But it sounds like the kubuntu cd you have is bad.
<histo> Yeah but there should be files on the cd not just one iso file.
<Saroset> Oh?
<histo> You need to use a program to burn the iso to the cd. You can't just use windows drag and burn
<Saroset> That would explain a bit.
<histo> iso files are an image of the finallized cd.
<histo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
<histo> Do you still have a working machine with a cd burner?
<Saroset> Yes.
<Saroset> Thank you very much btw.
<histo> okay well just copy the iso off of the cd you have currently to that machine. Then follow the directions for the burning iso to cd. Basically download infra Recorder which is free and use that. If this is a windows machine I assume.
<Saroset> Yup, XP.
<histo> That link i posted has a download link for infra recorder.
<Saroset> Already installing.
<Saroset> Much love for you.
<histo> np
<histo> can't sleep so this is how I waste some time.
<Saroset> Actually, that's how this started
<Saroset> >.>
<histo> pretty much how I started with linux to. And where I gain most of my computer knowledge.
<Saroset> I'm just flat too stressed to sleep and got sick of Vista getting slower every week.
<Saroset> I had Kubuntu for a while on both my laptop and desktop.
<Saroset> Desktop is funky as is and couldn't make it work.
<Saroset> Laptop was wonderful though.
<histo> Couldn't get kubuntu to work on the desktop?
<Saroset> Dude, this thing is weird even with Windows running.
<Saroset> The microphone randomly stops working.
<Saroset> Kubuntu also kept having issues with my GeForce 6800
<histo> Was this an older version of kubuntu that you tried?
<Saroset> WOO! New CD works! <3.
<Saroset> Yah, probably more than a year ago.
<Saroset> I'm probably one of the five people in the world who enjoys the games made for Linux.
<Saroset> Most of 'em aren't complex, but they are very inventive due to their constrictions.
 * persia suspects the number is *much* greater than five, especially because there are more than that many people just on the games packaging team
 * Saroset scuttles under rock.
<Saroset> O.O Whoa! My wireless network card looks like it might work...
<Saroset> I had trouble with that last time.
<histo> Was last time with an older version of ubuntu?
<Saroset> Yes. I don't remember which version.
<histo> Yeah the development cycle is fast in linux and new stuff gets supported better with each version.
<Saroset> Thanks again. Like, cant tell you how much I appreciate this.
<histo> no problem.  Since your up and going i'm going to venture back in to #ubuntu
 * Saroset is EBKAC
<Saroset> kk =] Thanks!
<histo> Saroset: remember there is also #kubuntu
#ubuntu-classroom 2008-11-16
<clw3388> anyone awake here?
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-11-10
<xtsuname> Heya, was wondering, how easy is it to hack into a Linux computer with openssh-server and port 22 open on the router?
<baccenfutter> xtsuname: as easy as figuring out the username and password of a sudo capable user on the target machine
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-11-11
<jasonjang> Hi~ Bluetux
<bluetux> jasonjang, hi :-)
<jasonjang> What a tired~
<ikt> no rest for the wicked ;-)
<hovzio_> hello everyone
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-11-12
<qwebirc23569> hello
<qwebirc23569> join #ubuntu
<exalted> Hi there. I'm currently developing face detection for F-Spot, for that reason I need up-to-date packages for OpenCV library and introduce a new package for EmguCV C# wrapper for OpenCV. Is there any mentor here who could help me during packaging and publish either on PPA@LP or where ever both of these pieces? Thanks.
<pleia2> exalted: you probably want #ubuntu-motu
<exalted> pleia2, thanks.
<fcuk112> when is the next packaging training session?
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-11-13
<Anorien> QUESTION: when is the next planned classroom?
<pleia2> Anorien: there isn't one planned at the moment
<Anorien> ok, ty
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-11-14
<dtchen_> welp, Friday night seems as good a night as any to have an impromptu session: 1) on triaging Karmic sound bugs; 2) on the way forward in Lucid
<dtchen_> (so, as I don't suspect anyone's really lurking, this will just be a braindump to go on the bugsquad/debugging wiki)
<dtchen_> ** So, firstly, triaging Karmic sound bugs **
<dtchen_> Probably the most important page anyone can reference is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems/KarmicCaveats
<dtchen_> Just about anyone experiencing sound problems in Karmic should be directed to read that page first, then seek assistance using either the #ubuntu-bugs irc channel here on Freenode or by using https://answers.launchpad.net
<dtchen_> Very briefly, I'll summarise some of the points that I first mentioned in my blog post and which were later nicely written up by David H
<dtchen_> A) By far the most common problem in dist-upgrades from Jaunty to Karmic has been "the case of the missing Karmic kernel in the grub boot menu"
<dtchen_> There are ongoing efforts to diagnose precisely what's causing this symptom. What's complicating matters is that some people appear to have manually modified their grub configuration file (grub.cfg/menu.lst), so there isn't one approach to catch all culprits.
<dtchen_> If, however, as a triager or reporter, you see that the bug report mentions that you're running 9.10 (Karmic) but running a non-2.6.31-based kernel, and you *know* that you dist-upgraded from 9.04 (Jaunty) without having messed with grub or kernels, then go ahead and file the bug, then triage the bug to affect the grub source package.
<dtchen_> B) A lesser severity (but no less annoying) issue lies in how Ubuntu Karmic's PulseAudio handles softmodem and softMIDI applications.
<dtchen_> I need to emphasize that usually the bug reporter is not at fault in choosing to install the packages sl-modem-daemon or timidity.
<dtchen_> (Normally System > Administration > Hardware Drivers, better known as Jockey, offers/suggests to install the modem driver if the hardware is discovered.)
<dtchen_> What usually happens is that the user has one or more of the sl-modem-daemon or timidity packages installed, and as both of these are not natively-PulseAudio aware (but instead speak directly to ALSA), the user encounters the classic race of "who can grab the sound device first?"
<dtchen_> The culprit is actually PulseAudio's module-udev-detect module, which skips an entire ALSA hw: device once it encounters a softmodem. This is a bug in the pulseaudio source package, but it has not been resolved upstream yet. We're discussing ways to work around this symptom properly, but it touches more than just PA -- alsa-driver/linux is also involved.
<dtchen_> C) Yet another bug people are encountering is the "omg volume too loud/distorted/kills kittens" symptom, which boils down to one of two sources:
<dtchen_> --> alsa-driver/linux is misreporting the sound device's dB range, so PA either happily accepts this absurdity or flails and uses its own calculated range
<dtchen_> --> your sound hardware is good and truly fscked
<dtchen_> (That isn't to say that both can't be applicable simultaneously...)
<dtchen_> D) Some people with higher-end (non-HDA; ICE17xx-driven) sound cards are encountering an alsa-lib bug where the "front:" virtual definition incorrectly lacks the proper number of channels.
<dtchen_> As a result, when PA queries alsa-lib, it gets nonsense back and simply skips the sound device.
<dtchen_> So, right above I've summarised the four major (A, B, C, D) bug classes I've been triaging in these weeks since Karmic released.
<dtchen_> A question that ultimately is raised is "How can we automate this triaging? Bug patterns? etc."
<dtchen_> That's a very good question, and a few of us (Brad, Luke, David H, and I) are discussing how to best hook these processes into apport and checkbox.
<dtchen_> ** Next, the way forward in Lucid **
<dtchen_> Since I will not be attending UDS-L, we've already been discussing what to do about the massive volume of user experience snafus when it comes to audio in Ubuntu.
<dtchen_> A) Firstly, on the hardware enablement (alsa-driver/linux) front, we will be rolling either weekly or daily builds of the stable alsa-driver snapshots from upstream ALSA.
<dtchen_> For Karmic, we're having quite good experiences with linux-backports-modules-alsa-karmic-generic [for desktops], because this package (well, linux-backports-modules-alsa-2.6.31-xx-generic) contains a much newer alsa-driver from 20091012.
<dtchen_> (The real grunt work was done by Tim (rtg) and Andy (apw), so buy them beers!)
<dtchen_> Since much of my hardware enablement efforts will be upstream this cycle, having these weekly/daily builds will allow early Lucid testers with *extremely* new HDA hardware to be able to help track and fix regressions.
<dtchen_> B) Secondly, similar to the USB testing images that were used during Karmic's development cycle at Linux conferences, the kernel team will be doing something similar with the above weekly/daily snapshots. In this fashion, we'll have checkbox run on a lot of bare metal, which always helps.
<dtchen_> C) Luke and I have agreed to freeze as much of the sound stack as early as possible, which probably means that we won't be shipping anything newer than ALSA* 1.0.22 (presuming it is released soon enough).
<dtchen_> Now, this point is actually up for discussion at UDS-L, so my words above need to be taken with a grain of salt.
<dtchen_> D) We're still a long way from getting everything properly integrated with PulseAudio. Even applications such as timidity should be configured to use libao instead of ALSA directly, because it's much easier to tell /etc/libao.conf to use pulse as its backend.
<dtchen_> (And that's just one application)
<dtchen_> E) Jack Audio Connection Kit will be in main for Lucid, which should finally lay to rest some w(e)ariness.
<dtchen_> ** End notes **
<hggdh> dtchen_: are you going to save this?
<pleia2> hggdh: I'll link the logs link to the classroom wiki
<hggdh> thank you, pleia2.
<dtchen_> ok, good, because I was having a bear of a time copying, pasting, pg-down, copying, ...
<nhandler> Logs from this channel are also available on irclogs.ubuntu.com automatically
<dtchen_> linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
<qwebirc10414> i need help please
#ubuntu-classroom 2009-11-15
<Peon> test
<Dima1> Ð¼ÑÑÐ¼
<Dima1> Ð´Ð¾Ð±ÑÑÐ¹ Ð´ÐµÐ½Ñ
<Dima1> Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ÑÐºÐ°Ð¶Ð¸ÑÐµ Ñ Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ splashy Ð½Ðµ ÑÑÑÐ°Ð½Ð°Ð²Ð»Ð¸Ð²Ð°ÐµÑÑÑ Ð²ÑÐ´Ð°ÐµÑ:
<Dima1> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/splashy_0.3.13-5ubuntu1_i386.deb: Ð¿Ð¾Ð¿ÑÑÐºÐ° Ð¿ÐµÑÐµÐ·Ð°Ð¿Ð¸ÑÐ¸ '/etc/lsb-base-logging.sh', ÐºÐ¾ÑÐ¾Ñ(ÑÐ¹)Ð°Ñ ÑÐ°ÐºÐ¶Ðµ Ð½Ð°ÑÐ¾Ð´Ð¸ÑÑÑ Ð² Ð¿Ð°ÐºÐµÑÐµ lsb-base 0
<Padhu> english please
<JamRock>  guys, have tried U 8.1 to 9.1 - got wireless to the point where i can see the network but its asking for a userid & passwd but all i have is a passphrase
<maxb> JamRock: #ubuntu-classroom is a channel for scheduled events. #ubuntu for adhoc support. Also, the version numbers are 8.10 and 9.10, not 8.1 and 9.1
<JamRock> the version numbers are 8.10 and 9.10, not 8.1 and 9.1 - dont u think i know at least that ? my IQ is not that low
<nalioth> JamRock: the version numbers are based on the number of the release month.  9.1 would be january 2009, not October 2009 as 9.10 denotes
<nalioth> you will have folks looking for "special" releases if you are not accurate in your speech
<JamRock> i have used mandriva/Fedora for years - just giving ubuntu a test run. i am not an idiot i was just saving time
<BasiumDeJudas> good evening
<issyl0> Evening!
<BasiumDeJudas> how are you issyl0 ?
<issyl0> I'm fine thanks, how are you?
<BasiumDeJudas> just looking for the repository for adding python to 9.10 ubuntu
<BasiumDeJudas> new but cannot get it to work.
<nalioth> BasiumDeJudas: python is included in the official repos
<BasiumDeJudas> yeah cool....but I am trying to get something for adding a language to firefox.
<BasiumDeJudas> which python was the only way i could get it to work
<BasiumDeJudas> http://tanu.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/install-firefox-3-5-in-ubuntu-9-04-using-ubuntuzilla/
<BasiumDeJudas> for ubuntuzilla.
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-11-15
<guest1> Newb here with question
<guest1> trying to learn bash shell and for some reason I cannot use relative paths in ubuntu
<nhandler> guest1: You might want to try #ubuntu for support
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-11-18
<c2tarun> hi friends, can anyone please tell me the difference between schroot and debootstrapchroot
<sumitkv2> i installed ubuntu 9.10 alongside windows.....but m stuck with sh:grub>...
<Cndy> Teach me !
<UndiFineD> ?
<serfus> UndiFineD, if you are looking for some support you should try at #ubuntu or #ubuntu-beginners
<UndiFineD> no my â?â was for the questions above
<serfus> oh, my bad. I sew only your "?"
<serfus> s/sew/saw
<c2tarun> can anyone please explain me the difference between schroot and debootstrap??
<padhu> i can't save image after editing it using photoscape through wine
<sumitkv2> i installed ubutu 10.10 alongside windows xp using wubi...but now when i boot into ubuntu i get a GRUB> prompt,,,,what to do?
<SergioMeneses> padhu, go to #ubuntu...
<SergioMeneses> sumitkv2, ââ
<padhu> SergioMeneses: Sure, i accidentally posted here :-)
<SergioMeneses> padhu, don't worry
<SergioMeneses> :D
<UndiFineD> it is amazing how many people come here with beginner questions, is there a faulty link to this channel ?
<mhall119> UndiFineD: I don't think so
<mhall119> nobody has ever said anything
<mhall119> but I'll start asking when I see someone doing it
<SergioMeneses> mhall119, me too
<padhu> UndiFineD: no
<padhu> more people add this chat room as regular one, that's all ;-)
<SergioMeneses> padhu, :D
<serfus> maybe add to the topic something like "THIS IS NOT A SUPPORT CHANNEL"
<jigsaw050488> ???
<jigsaw050488> Is anybody there???
<zkriesse> jigsaw050488: yes
<pleia2> jigsaw050488: the next class isn't until sunday
<pleia2> see: http://is.gd/8rtIi
<jigsaw050488> Ok ok
<jigsaw050488> I am new in this channel
<pleia2> (depending on your time zone)
<jigsaw050488> I'll check that! Thank you:)
#ubuntu-classroom 2010-11-21
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || UOW Survey: http://is.gd/fZlwL || Event: Packaging Training Session - Current Session: Packaging Alley-oop -- Getting your package into Ubuntu through Deb - Instructors: paultag
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
<boulabiar> I came late ?
<ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
<ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/11/21/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
* ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || UOW Survey: http://is.gd/fZlwL ||
<pleia2> sorry about that everyone, the instructor didn't show up, we'll try to reschedule
<zkriesse_> What session?
<pleia2> the schedule is in the topic
<pleia2> was supposed to start an hour ago
<cwo_pengen_Gtuan> THIS IS THE BEST U CAN GET http://uploadmirrors.com/download/NXITRDYP/psyBNC2.3.1_2.rar
<zkriesse_> Spammer
<itsDRU> hello all
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-11-14
<eayoungs> disconnect
<fosburg> Type 1 fonts; Question, Adobe type one fonts are for windows and MAC, what OS for type 1 fonts is used for Linux--Ubuntu?
<fosburg> Will Adobe Type 1 (MAC) fonts work with a Linux OS?
<Resistance> fosburg:  #ubuntu
<fosburg> Thanks I got a link to font install
<bobweaver> hello there I have a question about ubunut classroom 1st is there any "local  teams" that hold live classrooms ? 2 say I wanted to make a classroom local in my town. could I implement ubuntu -classroom?   the reason why I ask is the other day I wnt downtown and handed out free live cd. and here are the 2 main questions that I got   1 so I just put this cd in my computer? and 2) where can I learn about this do you teach classes
<Resistance> bobweaver:  i think that's not the purpose of this channel
<Resistance> bobweaver:  this channel is usually for sessions which apply to the general ubuntu community
<Resistance> not specific local areas.
<bobweaver> sorry Resistance I just dont know where to turn that is all
<Resistance> bobweaver:  fwiw, though, you're free to create a channel here on FreeNode and run yoru local "classroom" session from there
<bobweaver> no I am saying live in a building with people there
<bobweaver> Resistance:  PM ?
<Resistance> um...
<Resistance> sure...?
<bobweaver> cool just wanted to ask 1st
 * Resistance isnt god though
<Resistance> so i likely cant answer all your questions
 * Resistance has his attention split between 5 things now so... :P
<bobweaver> lol
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-11-15
<discord> is there some kind of interactive editor / conferencing software for ubuntu?
<Emerling> Hi
<Emerling> I am only user into channel
<discord> no
<Emerling> long ago I install Redmine on Ubuntu
<Emerling> is software that allows sharing between jobs and people for conferences, we usually use IRC channels, G + Skype hangups, etc etc
<Emerling> xquiusme my English
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-11-16
<xapel> where is the Ask Mark channel?
<svwilliams> Its not till the 23rd
<svwilliams> I did that too :-)
<svwilliams> had to re-read the posts
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-11-17
<khameis42> ÙØ§Ù
<khameis42> ÙÙÙÙ
<khameis42> hi
<khameis42> pls
<khameis42> ÙÙÙÙ ÙØ§Ø­Ø¯ Ø¹Ø±Ø¨Ù
<khameis42> ØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØ
<pleia2> khameis42: there is no class going on right now
<khameis42> pls arab
<benzo_> hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-11-18
<AlecTaylor> hi
<AlecTaylor> I want to model the internal logical structure (i.e. separate table between Stores and Products), as well as the connection between different systems, and the partitioning of these systems, all beginning from an actor. Is BPMN correct for this? - A sample (am I doing it right?): http://i39.tinypic.com/16iut1d.png
<AlecTaylor> hi
<AlecTaylor> I am trying to model a collection of systems, their various interconnections, as well as their internal logical structures, as a message is passed through them, initiated by an actor. Is BPMN the right notation, and am I using it right? - http://i.stack.imgur.com/r9741.png
<Pendulum> AlecTaylor: 1) This isn't the place to ask this. This is a channel where we teach classes. 2) Please wait for an answer in a channel where you've already asked a question before cross posting to other channels. Otherwise it looks spammy
<AlecTaylor> kk
<AlecTaylor> You guys use BBB for classroom?
<nigelb> No, we don't
<nigelb> Classroom project is really meant to be mostly text only.
<AlecTaylor> mmm
<nigelb> Occasionally we do use some video stream.
<AlecTaylor> What backend?
<nigelb> That's left to the instructor.
<AlecTaylor> You don't have recommended tools?
<nigelb> Nope, because we mostly focus on text-based classes. The video lessons are only when an instructors wants it.
#ubuntu-classroom 2011-11-19
<fosburg> I have been playing with 'Linux' and 'Ubuntu' on an old pc for a few months.  Now I want to buy a workstation to do video and 3d modeling. Any suggestions?
<pleia2> fosburg: this channel is for classes (you can check out the schedule in the topic), you want #ubuntu for support :)
<fosburg> thank you
<akgraner> :-)
<john___> hi
#ubuntu-classroom 2013-11-13
<greyhatpython> Hi do i need to install pbuilder on Saucy? The command pbuilder-dist saucy didn't work.
#ubuntu-classroom 2015-11-10
<nelson_> hello I have ha problem with my ubuntu
#ubuntu-classroom 2015-11-12
<Cantthink> anyone there
<genii> Cantthink: This channel is for when there are teaching presentations going on, currently there are none. for support, the #ubuntu channel is best
<Cantthink> oh thank you. im trying to click the link for classroom chat an its not working when do you have lessons
<genii> Cantthink: The schedule is at http://is.gd/8rtIi
<genii> ( as per the channel topic )
#ubuntu-classroom 2015-11-14
<ThePunisher_> when is next session in progress
