#ubuntu-discuss 2013-07-22
<elvis4526> Why exactly Canonical didn't adopt Wayland ? It seems there is no technical argument besides this decision.
<elvis4526> behind this decision.
<hrnz> because they want to split the GNU/Linux community
<k1l_> elvis4526: there is alot. but everyone is busy shitstorming so no one reads the facts
<hrnz> the fact that wayland developement is too slow. sure.
<k1l_> http://blog.cooperteam.net/  just scroll down to begin with reading
<kline> so, between the "recommended" donation ($16) and canonical's commercial support, why is there an indiegogo campaign for the edge, a product thats not even been prototyped or priced yet? though i realise theres a -phone channel, this does seem to be more about "ubuntu or canonicals direction"
<kline> it seems odd that a $600 donation will get you a "special introductory offer", unless the phone were to come in at >$1k. though really asking 600 for an undisclosed saving seems a bit strange
<AlanBell> $600 gets you the phone
<AlanBell> it isn't phrased very well
<kline> no
<kline> well
<kline> maybe
<kline> point still stands why a commercial entity needs an indiegogo when they are known to be making maybe too much money already
<AlanBell> lol
<k1l_> kline: making too much money?
<kline> im under the impression that canonical pushed for adverts to be included in more recent ubuntu releases
<elvis4526> k1l_: Thanks, I'll look into that.
<kline> in addition to their commercial support, i can only imagine they are doing well. if they are happy to make such a controversial move with ads, i cant help but feel they are feeling secure in their position
<k1l_> kline: the adverts only make money if you buy something after you clicked that. its the average amazon referal thing
<kline> i know how clickthrough adverts work
<kline> so why are canonical asking for money when they are pushing adverts to ubuntu users anyway?
<k1l_> ok, than i dont know how you come to your conclusion that canonical makes too much money o_O
<k1l_> seems like this is not going to be constructive, so im out of that discussion :/
<AlanBell> you seem to think that search results in the shopping lens are considerably lucrative
<kline> if they werent, why would they implement them under such controversy?
<kline> unless they really are gluttons for punishment
<AlanBell> because they wanted some money from them, plus it fits with the strategy for the unity dash being a search tool for everything
<AlanBell> it is somewhat irrelevant in scale and subject to todays stuff
<kline> of course its relevant, its part of canonicals income
<kline> we already get adverts pushed to us by default, despite huge user backlash, and they are still asking for more and more money
<kline> for a device thats not even tech prototypes done
<kline> (no screen selected, no processor, etc etc etc)
<AlanBell> ad revenue can't be big
<AlanBell> the point of the dash is to search for everything
<AlanBell> including things you might want to buy
<AlanBell> the dash being the omniglobaleverything search tool is way more important a design concept than any money they might get from it
<kline> then why are they getting money from it?
<kline> if the money doesnt matter, why are they still collecting it despite backlash?
<AlanBell> well they could give it to Amazon, or break the dash, or stick it out
<AlanBell> most of the backlash was from people who clearly don't use Ubuntu anyway
<kline> why not donate to the FSF?
<AlanBell> why?
<kline> or another foss friendly charity
<kline> because canonical is a commercial support entity
<Frogging|work> Because greedy corporations? idk
<dekan> I did statistical analysis guys, at this time, recorded from 00:00 to 01:00, average mean of $/min based on indiegogo is around 4500-5500 $/min with not much of standard deviation. Can anyone else do statistics tommorrow with me, since two independent measurements and calculations are better, cause I probably have some relative error. THis is only for today, I want to see how rate of $/min will accelerate or deccalerate over time
<dekan> , and possibly make a mathematical model to calculate if we will get to 32 000 000 $.
<SonikkuAmerica> I apologize for any apparent antagonism right now, but we're actually discussing it in #ubuntu-offtopic right now!
<SonikkuAmerica> s/1st right now/up front
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-07-24
<jussi> I think its minorly strange that canonical is going after the phone market, when the other big companies in that market are now heading in different directions - google/motorola's glass, LG have just registered a trademark for glass etc etc. Canonical don't seem to be introducing much "new", apart from maybe the convergence "my phone is a laptop" story. Anyone got thoughts?
<syn-ack> jussi++
<AlanBell> well I think glass is silly
<AlanBell> there is a lack of market focus from Canonical I think
<syn-ack> There is a general lack of focus, all around. There has been for years
<DJones> Possibly its just trying to have something that differentiates a product from everybody else, I keep reading that traditional desktops are a reducing market, tablets themselves are dominated by Apple & Android, phones are getting bigger bridging the gap between phone and tablet to the point where they seem too big to be comfortable to use as a phone but too small to use as a tablet, the Edge seems a bit different in that with the addition ...
<DJones> ... of a bluetooth keyboard/mouse & a cable to connect to a monitor in theory you get the 'best' of both worlds
<DJones> I know there are phones that plug into a tablet casing, but even then you don't have a keyboard/mouse with having to get them
<jussi> DJones: yeah, true words. I guess this whole HW thing is more about market measurement than anything else
<k1l_> i think the dock-mode is some part of the future. motorola tried it before but they didnt have a proper desktop and the ARM wasnt powerfull enough. with a ARM 4core and 4gb ram and 128gb storage that equals most laptops.
<DJones> One thing I was wondering about the Edge was what the battery life would be like if you're using it as a desktop machine for a couple of hours, would you need to have it connected to a mains supply and secondly if you have it mains powered how well would the heat disapate, my samsung phone heats up if its on charge
<k1l_> i asked if they consider induction for charging (like the nexus4 and nokias and the old hp/palm) but they didnt.
<DJones> To me, that would be more of a gimick rather than something particularly useful, its only really useful if you have a fixed workplace, if you're moving round and need to charge its easier to just carry a cable than the induction pads (looking at size anyway), if you're in the car you're more likely to have the phone in a cradle which is simpler to connect to a cable (or have to buy a cradle with built in induction charging), I charge my ...
<DJones> ... phone overnight on the bedside cabinet, so having an induction charger there would work, but then if I wanted to use the phone as the desktop without power dropping I'd then need to move the charger or have multiple chargers and I can't see the chargers being as cheap as a Â£1 as the cables are now
<k1l_> yes. a cable always works :) since you need to put some cable in for the dockmode it could be charged through this anyway. and since it uses some power that would make sense.
<k1l_> but i do like that i dont have to put a cable into it when charging it on the induction pad. i didnt think it would benefit but since i got induction on my hp touchpad tablet and the nexus4 i didnt put a cable into it since ages, and i am glad :)
<DJones> I've never looked at induction charging, presumably different manufacturers/devices potentially could have different charging rates or is there an industry standard
<DJones> I just have visions of putting a device on one pad & it charging and a 2nd pad and it burning out through charging at too high a rate (or not charging due to too low a rate)
<DJones> Just looking at the funding campaign it seems to have stalled after the initial 24 hours
<AlanBell> new prices seem to have got it going again a bit
<DJones> Sure has, thats gone up about $500K in the last hour
<AlanBell> I think there is a chance they will get above the biggest ever crowdfunding total
<k1l_> http://korczynskij.pl/shared/ubuntu/ there you see the beginning of the effect
<DJones> It wouldn't surprise me if it gets above the $11M level (which I think is just above the previous biggest) but I'm not sure if it'll get to the $32M
<DJones> I wonder what will happen if its at $31.5M in the last hour, it might be tempting to somebody (not necessarily Mark) to put the rest of the funding in so that the project could be considered a success
<AlanBell> DJones: tempting to indiegogo if it gets to $31M
<AlanBell> they have 1.28M commission to protect
<jussi> and we are over 4 million...
<jussi> I like the idea of putting all those different closely priced perks up. it makes people want to make a decision now to save the little bit extra.
<jussi> mind, the people who paid 830 must be feeling a bit pissed off...
<k1l_> jussi: i think i t says thex get a refund
<jussi> k1l_: ahh, yes, so it does
<jussi> but, they dont get a refund untill after the event, so those extra bits still go towards the total
<jussi> :P
<Daekdroom> Some of the involved people could refuse getting it back.
<Daekdroom> So it can, you know, go towards the development
<jussi> Daekdroom: yes, that is mentioned there
<Daekdroom> It didn't seem to be.
<jussi> Daekdroom: If youâre happy with the amount you contributed, you can opt out of this refund by emailing us at indiegogoinfo@canonical.com.
<Daekdroom> It's an issue I have regarding patience to read stuff.
<Daekdroom> (kinda harmful when you're graduating in Philosophy, tbh)
<jussi> haha
<DJones> Bit of a different take on the Edge & its funding http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2013/07/24/ubuntu-edge-the-begging-bowls-not-big-enough/
<AlanBell> interesting
<AlanBell> it isn't a begging bowl as such, it is pre-orders
<AlanBell> however committing to not make any more means it is a dead end
<AlanBell> and they are saying it is a breakeven pricing strategy
<AlanBell> in fact they are saying that they need more than $625 per handset and they haven't accounted for tax
#ubuntu-discuss 2013-07-26
<jussi> and 6.2 million... 500k overnight aint bad
<AlanBell> and now a referral competition
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-07-21
<epicnah> hi.....
<LinStatSDR> Hey hey, epicnah
<epicnah> are you a bot ?
<LinStatSDR> no...
<LinStatSDR> im a person i promise
<epicnah> cool
<epicnah> btw, can i install vmware workstation on a ubuntu cloud server ?
<LinStatSDR> on the controller?
<LinStatSDR> or like on the server that runs openstack
<epicnah> no
<epicnah> like google cloud mode
<LinStatSDR> Is the cloud server a VM
<epicnah> i dont know. have you ever use the google compute ?
<LinStatSDR> yes but are you trying to set this up on your own hardware
<LinStatSDR> Or are you using a cloud vm and trying to run a vm on a VM that happens to have ubuntu cloud server on
<LinStatSDR> because you can't do that
<LinStatSDR> no vt
<epicnah> yeah.. that is
<epicnah> i installed it and executed it. but error >.<
<LinStatSDR> Yeah you can't do any virtualization on the guest system
<LinStatSDR> at least afaik
<epicnah> so the point is " it is impossible? " there is no any chance for me ?
<epicnah> i see
<LinStatSDR> I'm saying that you could install VMware your personal system and run stuff that way
<LinStatSDR> since you can have multiple vms running off of one system
<LinStatSDR> but you can't try to split cores from a system thats already on a split core.
<LinStatSDR> hmmm if its split maybe 32 bit will work?
<LinStatSDR> cuz were talking about threads in that case
<LinStatSDR> idk
<epicnah> hemm...
<LinStatSDR> did I help at all?
<epicnah> i have tried the qemu... but the CPU enviroment is useless. also virtualbox just for 32bit. i have 8vcpus and 30Gb ram on my own cloud. just wanna have fun with any experiment :)
<LinStatSDR> okay you said vmware so
<epicnah> ty you are so kind
<LinStatSDR> now im confused
<epicnah> tried vmware workstation too xD
<LinStatSDR> so you can do 32 bit vms but not 64 on the 64 bit guest system
<LinStatSDR> i guess that's okay? sounds like a bad time to me though
<epicnah> yeah.. over 6 hours doin this stuff
<LinStatSDR> That's all?
<LinStatSDR> Not bad.
<LinStatSDR> That would be kind of a cool experiment... Built a cloud (64 bit) then makes vms on the guest vms and build another cloud in 32 bit. a cloud in a cloud lol
<LinStatSDR> Maybe i'll try that
<LinStatSDR> epicnah: try this link: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1663254.html
<LinStatSDR> maybe has some info
<epicnah> on my way
<LinStatSDR> Somewhere in there they say you can change some file in vmware cfg to 32 bit
<LinStatSDR> but everyone refused to test it
<epicnah> yeah... looks like somebody has did it.
<LinStatSDR> They linked the the file and change it to 32. said, but you can try it and share your experience:D
<epicnah> http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r605/raranet777/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.jpg
<epicnah> i got this ...  no luck for me
<epicnah> ;\
<LinStatSDR> Wait where are the config filese stored
<LinStatSDR> you have them on another server machine?
<LinStatSDR> Are they on that ubuntu 64bit?
<LinStatSDR> maybe network, try bridge instead of nat
<LinStatSDR> gotta exit
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-07-24
<Wolfblood> Registering new nicks cause i've not been on IRC in years and forgot my password haha.
<Wolfblood> Anyway Hello people nice to meet you all.
<LinStatSDR> Morning guys,
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-07-26
<LinStatSDR> anyone familiar with iptable chains?
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-07-27
<LinStatSDR> AFternoon
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-20
<OerHeks> :-)
<ObrienDave> geez louise, full moon again? ;P
<OerHeks> sort off... my dog is annoying too
<ObrienDave> at least your dog loves you LOL :)
<OerHeks> Tue, totally true .. and he is not a troll
<OerHeks> Funny thing about dogs, they don't lie.
<ObrienDave> sure they do, they have to sleep sometime ;P
<OerHeks> 2 trolls now ..
<ObrienDave> sheesh, it doesn't get any better :)
<OerHeks> sometimes i want to be an Op ... glad i am not
<ObrienDave> yea, i would let the power go straight to my fingers :)
<OerHeks> Yesterday someone came in #ubuntu to resolve a broken video of a balloon .. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33588229
<OerHeks> woooiiii
<ObrienDave> hmm, plays fine for me
<OerHeks> Yes, not sure this is the video, but an awesome footage
<OerHeks> maybe i beter silence up in ubuntu-o, ObrienDave :-D
<ObrienDave> NEVAR!!! :)
<ObrienDave> OerHeks, you do and we WILL have issues ;P
<OerHeks> :-D
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/tianhe-2-most-powerful-supercomputer-in-the-world-runs-ubuntu-487271.shtml
<OerHeks>  17,808,000 watt
<OerHeks> vacuum cleaners are allowed to do 1000 w
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> EU is watching your power consumption OerHeks !
<OerHeks> sure, they want to make me president of energy
<lotuspsychje> haha
<OerHeks> i 'fused
<ObrienDave> lol
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you?
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx lordievader and you?
<lotuspsychje> im moving to another city
<lordievader> Doing alright, I'm migrating a Zabbix server.
<lordievader> From what city to what city? And why?
<lotuspsychje> beernem to bruges
<lotuspsychje> because its more comercial city to start my store from
<lordievader> Have you seen the film "In Bruges"?
<lordievader> Ah, I see.
<lotuspsychje> yep, it kinda sucked :p
<lotuspsychje> but the movie images are good
<lordievader> Dude, that movie was hilarious!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i like netherlands movies better :p
<lotuspsychje> de sint, was hilarious :p
<lordievader> In Bruge is british?
<lotuspsychje> cant remember
<lordievader> It is British/American ;)
<lotuspsychje> breakfast cheers guys
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> quick irc break
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> same here!
<lotuspsychje> hi there daftykins :p
<daftykins> how goes it?
<lotuspsychje> im in the middle of moving to new house
<lotuspsychje> so quick break right now
<daftykins> ooh, upgrade/downgrade?
<lotuspsychje> closer to city
<lotuspsychje> bbl back2work :p
<OerHeks> au au ... my tummy hurts ... of laughing  > 300 fps gaming and productivity
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> what a buzzword spouter.
<OerHeks> 15 year, @school if you ask me
<daftykins> *nod* that figures
<daftykins> i mean i was playing the first counter-strike back over 15 years ago Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> hell, plenty longer
<daftykins> i tend to ignore the gaming questions because i don't feel they're justified in being resolved
<OerHeks> I never did. And not wanted to when i see that german kid, raging on youtube :-D
<daftykins> hahaha
<OerHeks> I like ubuntu, really, 15.04 with its new service model
<OerHeks> now i just take a look at what i have running, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11910587/
<daftykins> D:
<OerHeks> no no, not about what i am doing wong, or so ..
<OerHeks> systemd-bootchart.service                  disabled
<OerHeks> nice to know
<daftykins> :D
<lordievader> OerHeks: Do you mean: systemd-analyze, and systemd-analyze --blame?
<lordievader> That is a lovely utility.
<OerHeks> hmm i am working on the lots of options you really have, standard
<lordievader> Writing systemd service scripts is also a lot easier.
<OerHeks> there should be some sort of gui too
<lordievader> Meh
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-21
<OerHeks> http://ubucon.de/2015/contest it is 4 days running aready
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/meizu-mx4-ubuntu-edition-is-now-available-for-purchase-freely-in-europe-487334.shtml
<OerHeks> lotus http://ubucon.de/2015/contest it is 4 days running aready
<lotuspsychje> lemme see
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> sturmflut is really everywhere on the web :p
<lotuspsychje> very active guy
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: does google shows something from 'netherlands' to you?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: im having belgian colored google + french fries ontop lol
<OerHeks> google knows everything man
<lotuspsychje> lool
<OerHeks> and makes 'billions'
<lotuspsychje> duckduckgo
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: we will soon be driven by google automatic cars
<lotuspsychje> scary thought
<OerHeks> i am more affraid of those zombies with smartphones on the road, or drones that prevents firebrigade to fight fire
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: did you hear belgium gonna make special pedestrian lines to walk with smartphones, for 'safety'
<lotuspsychje> ...
<lotuspsychje> cars,bikes next to it, and smartphonezombies lol
<ObrienDave> Beam me up, Scotty! There is NO intelligent life! ;P
<OerHeks> Beam me down Scotty i am ugly and intelligent
<lordievader> Good morning.
<OerHeks> Another intelligent life, ObrienDave :-D
<OerHeks> hi lordievader
<ObrienDave> i almost choked when you said that ;P
<lordievader> o/
<OerHeks> shocking indeed ...
<BluesKaj> HI folks
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> 36 discuss users must be a record!
<lotuspsychje> wasnt there a trigger to count most users?
<BluesKaj> yeah, but you're one of the few making entries :-)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> Loading modules via a cd is fun :)
<Bashing-om> lordievader: Oh, Lord, what have you got yourself into ?
<lordievader> ?
<lordievader> It's a virtual cd. But it allows me to just update modules when I need them. It is no longer required to reboot the vm to load a kernel with module built in :D
<Bashing-om> lordievader: Loading modules from the CD . I mean, must be something serious going on there .
<Bashing-om> lordievader: That is a good thing, no ? Keeps the image smaller and faster .
<lordievader> The modules or the built in?
<Bashing-om> the modules, only loading what you need .
<lordievader> Yes exactly.
<lordievader> The vms all boot the same kernel/initrd. Before I added whatever a vm needed. Now they'll just get it from the module cd ;)
<Bashing-om> lordievader: Hey, when you are good, you are good !
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Are you free and available to look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/11916835/ ? Explain what that final line means ?
<OerHeks> AIGLX: Suspending AIGLX clients for VT switch ..
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Yeah, does that mean no access to the dispaly ? as vigilant- gets kicked back to login when GUI is started with radion driver on 4X ATI card . I see no other fault in the file .
<Bashing-om> radeon *
<OerHeks> i am not sure, is it an error or an warning-message. or just message.
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Let me see if .xsession-errors tell us anything more, thanks.
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> Who is hiring all these trolls?
<OerHeks> sorry, i do not really want to know that
<ObrienDave> if you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question LOL ;P
<OerHeks> "i would downgrade to 10.04 an then lts>lts" hips
<ObrienDave> glwt ;P
<ObrienDave> ok, ok, who let all the trolls in? i blame OerHeks ;P
<OerHeks> best colour: wednesday
<ObrienDave> lol
<OerHeks> now i stop
<ObrienDave> why?
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ObrienDave> waves
<lordievader> Hey ObrienDave, how are you doing?
<ObrienDave> good thanks. you?
<lordievader> Got coffee brewing suppose I'm doing good ;)
<ObrienDave> ah, i just got home from work. beer-thirty ;P
<lordievader> Hehe, have fun ;)
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/backbox-linux-4-3-is-a-powerful-penetration-testing-based-on-ubuntu-14-04-lts-487505.shtml
<lordievader> o/
<lotuspsychje> hi lordievader
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj and EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje, EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/robolinux-8-1-cinnamon-runs-windows-10-inside-the-os-487523.shtml
<BluesKaj> intersting, but I don't have any desire to windows apps on linux. I guess this was developed mostly for games and some office suites
<BluesKaj> run
<lotuspsychje> me neither
<BluesKaj> I have a W7 installation, but it's mostly to keep up with wife's W7 in case she has a problem
<lotuspsychje> i ditched windows long time ago :p
<BluesKaj> she finds linux too intimidating
<lotuspsychje> but still doing recoverys for other users
<lotuspsychje> yeah linux got likes and unlikes for sure
<lordievader> Both have their strenghts and weaknesses.
<histo> virtualbox seamless mode would accomplish the same thing
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: true
<lotuspsychje> good evening guys
<lotuspsychje> lol who's the best?
<lotuspsychje> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HXAOofaX6k
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lol you still on vigilant 's problem
<BluesKaj> goodbye pulseaudio, thankyou intel-hda :-)
<OerHeks> what did you do, BluesKaj ?
<BluesKaj> switched my default soundcard back to onboard spdif digital out, was using an m-audio card , but it required pulse for web audio, but th eintel doesn't need pulse for webaudio
<BluesKaj> the intel that is
<BluesKaj> no extra layer of audio processing i other words
<BluesKaj> lower distortion levels
<OerHeks> :-)
<OerHeks> saves 0.5 second i guess
<BluesKaj> think I'll put the m-audio on ebay for someone who likes to record from other sources like an audio mixer etc
<BluesKaj> it's actually designed for capture anyway, playback is ok thru it but requiring pulse is a negative
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-23
<SuperFAM> hi
<Bashing-om> SuperFAM: Welcome to ubuntu chatter .
<SuperFAM> i'm new to ubuntu. is there a crash course guide to useful kb shortcuts + killer apps?
<Bashing-om> SuperFAM: Shortcuts depend on the Desktop that you are ruuning . and killer apps, well ; install "synaptic" and serach the archive to your heart's content .
<SuperFAM> i'm running the Unity desktop for now
<Bashing-om> SuperFAM: I am not running unity, so my memory may not be exact. The super key to get a list of the shortcuts ?
<SuperFAM> the super key opens the unity search menu, if i understand what youre asking
<Bashing-om> SuperFAM: Likely so . Ya might /join #ubuntu channel and get much better direction .
<SuperFAM> i'll do that, thanks for the tips
<Bashing-om> SuperFAM: See ya there .
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-14-10-utopic-unicorn-reached-end-of-life-upgrade-to-ubuntu-15-04-now-487585.shtml
<lotuspsychje> !14.10
<ubot5> Ubuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) was the 21st release of Ubuntu. Support for this release will end in July 2015. For more info see !eol, !upgrade and http://ubottu.com/y/utopic
<lotuspsychje> still in topic hmmm
<OerHeks> Today or next week
<lotuspsychje> Tm_T or DJones alive?
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: yeah its still early :p
<Tm_T> lotuspsychje: kinda
<lotuspsychje> Tm_T: ah just wanna point you to 14.10 being eol to topic
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ObrienDave> waves. save us from the #ubuntu noobs ;P
<lordievader> Leave #ubuntu?
<ObrienDave> hmm. not an option *sigh*
<lordievader> #ubuntu is allways way to busy for my taste.
<ObrienDave> Beam me up, Scotty! There is NO intelligent life in #ubuntu! ;P
<ObrienDave> most common helpers excepted ;p
<OerHeks> 1725 and 1 silent
<ObrienDave> 2 ;p
<ObrienDave> oh, both of us, 3 lol
<lordievader> Should I join the channel? :P
<ObrienDave> only if you can stand tonights idiocy ;P
<lordievader> It can't be that bad </famous last words>
<lotuspsychje> somone i know bought this pc: http://imgur.com/AEonkt4
<lotuspsychje> but the pcie slot is empty?
<lordievader> The HD7000 isn't in there?
<lotuspsychje> amd radeon HD7000 1 gig should be a big card right
<lotuspsychje> no
<lotuspsychje> the price seems rather low to me also
<lotuspsychje> to hold a gaming card
<lordievader> HD7000 is a series not a card per se.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: you think its the internal gpu?
<lordievader> But yes, rather big card. two slots: http://www.pcper.com/files/review/2012-03-03/08.jpg
<lordievader> Unlikely.
<lotuspsychje> thought so too
<lotuspsychje> ill have this guy mail them back first before i order a new card :p
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: cant find anything on mobo:http://www.msi.com/product/mb/A78M-E35.html#hero-specification
<lordievader> If the card ain't there, the card ain't there. They screwed the guy over.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lordievader> Lets hope it is a simple "oh I forgot" error and you still get it.
<lotuspsychje> yes i also hope it
<lotuspsychje> ill keep you in touch :p
<lordievader> Why?
<lotuspsychje> i mean what will happen with this story
<lordievader> OerHeks: I understand your frustration. Running a hybrid Trusty and Vivid system and wondering why your compiler is broken...
<lordievader> Err that was for ObriendDave...
<OerHeks> lordievader, i always wonder why they come up too late with this special circumstances..
<lordievader> Yeah, I'd recon that is the first thing you say...
<OerHeks> i still wonder how he added vivid sources in that live environment..
<lordievader> What usually bug me is that people ask for support, then when you try to troubleshoot an issue they are at some other pc.
<OerHeks> or "wait" ....
<OerHeks> :-D
<lordievader> Meh it is better than "Oh I am at work now".
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/steam-for-linux-now-has-more-than-1300-games-487629.shtml
<lotuspsychje> interesting
<JanC> so 25% of Steam games run on linux?
<OerHeks> JanC, less ..
<OerHeks> for 4% linux steam users
<JanC> well, 4% is not bad
<JanC> how many Mac users has Steam now?
<OerHeks> good question, i got that 4% from a magazine .. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=mac
<OerHeks> http://store.steampowered.com/stats
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-24
<OerHeks> :-)
<pepee> this channel is not being listed by alis
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/ubuntu-12-04-lts-receives-a-new-linux-kernel-update-users-urged-to-update-now-487693.shtml
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-patches-multiple-linux-kernel-vulnerabilities-in-ubuntu-15-04-and-14-04-lts-487694.shtml
<lotuspsychje> DoS attack on 14.04 oO doesnt sound very nice
<OerHeks> :-)
<OerHeks> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/
<lotuspsychje> nice site OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> and alot of flaws oO
<lotuspsychje> !usn
<ubot5> Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/usn for information about Ubuntu security updates.
<lotuspsychje> aha great
<lotuspsychje> tnx for hint
<lotuspsychje> left a msg to 0ps to delete 14.10 offtopic aswell
<OerHeks> some deal done, http://www.nu.nl/economie/4094386/grote-handelsdeal-wto-it-producten.html
<lotuspsychje> nice!
<lordievader> Good morning.
<lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
<lotuspsychje> 14.10 deleted from topic :p
<lordievader> Time to write some automatic update scripts.
<OerHeks> special request :-D
<lordievader> And also time for an update...
<lotuspsychje> check this new tools kids play with:
<lotuspsychje> http://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/angler-exploit-kit-loads-up/
<lotuspsychje> its highly wanted 0day tool underground
<OerHeks> if it is in the magazines or on forums, it is old
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> thats certanly true
<lordievader> Black hat is coming up, eh?
<lordievader> Ah, august 1 through 6.
<lotuspsychje> the movie?
<lordievader> No, the conference.
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> the movie was pretty nice too
<lordievader> Never seen it.
<lordievader> Black hat talks of last year were pretty funny though. Even though I haven't seen 'em all yet.
<lotuspsychje> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn2g9qGbH_k
<OerHeks> Always these unexpected withdraw of super secret flaws, what will it be this year?
<lotuspsychje> h4ckers keep getting more original
<lordievader> Seems like your average holywood hacker thing... :(
<lotuspsychje> !utopic
<ubot5> Ubuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) was the 21st release of Ubuntu. Support for this release will end in July 2015. For more info see !eol, !upgrade and http://ubottu.com/y/utopic
<daftykins> nearly back to just two actively supported releases then \o/
<cfhowlett> daftykins, eh?  ???
<daftykins> 14.04 and 15.04
<daftykins> 14.10 dies at the end of this month :)
<daftykins> -!- Oblivion [~linus@104.238.169.13]
<daftykins> -!- Bill [~linus@104.238.169.13]
<daftykins> -!- Bill is now known as Guest6513
<daftykins> so he's... backing himself up o0
<cfhowlett> so it's the same guy then?
<daftykins> yeah heh
<cfhowlett> "clever girl" ...
<daftykins> i was tempted to call him out for it, but i best not stir the drama
<daftykins> :D
 * daftykins makes a velociraptor call
<cfhowlett> he trolled himself out with me in unauthorized pm
<daftykins> oh? how-so?
<cfhowlett> he got butthurt that I asked him to not MicroBash or curse.  Accused me of thought control.  I advised him to start his own channel or go to OT and he responded with insults.  /ignore applied
<daftykins> XD
<OerHeks> daftykins, 14.10 died 20 hrs ago https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2015-July/000198.html
<daftykins> oh sweet
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> huzzah :>
<daftykins> the ones that try and use us as a library are quite irritating
<nixzed> glebihan: Are you twin brother of glebihan_ ? LoL
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-25
<OerHeks> fes-ti-val - or -  Ste-phen-haw-kins ...
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> grinn, troll trolls troll ..
<ObrienDave> if it's not for his machine, why is he asking??? ;P
<OerHeks> why should we care :-P
<ObrienDave> i think i'll have another beer or three :P
<ObrienDave> if i get out-of-line, slap me ;P
<OerHeks> don't drink, drive and irc !
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> you have 2 hand, you know
<OerHeks> hands*
<ObrienDave> *uses both hands* ;P
<ObrienDave> can't drive, at home LOL
<OerHeks> drinking makes me say funny things that are not funny sober ... driving makes me a criminal without license :-D
<OerHeks> well, irc ... not that much better either
<ObrienDave> yup :)
<ObrienDave> lordy, i want to shoot google translate
<OerHeks> drinking & irc are driving me nuts
<ObrienDave> kcj is in rare form LMAO
<OerHeks> " 50 ct ?"  No, 2 million !
<ObrienDave> lordy. even #U-OT is being trolled *sigh*
<histo> sorry for all the reconnects, setting up a router here.
<histo> pita
<ObrienDave> good thing i have the turned off ;P
<ObrienDave> *them
<lotuspsychje> morning :p
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lordievader> lotuspsychje: You are just in time ;)
<lotuspsychje> hi lordievader, OerHeks and EriC^^
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: i was here at 4h30 but felt to sleep again :p
<lotuspsychje> fine tnx lordievader
<lotuspsychje> you?
<OerHeks> If i had little wings, i could fly now http://www.buienradar.nl/weerkaarten/wind
<EriC^^> hi lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> great you?
<lordievader> Doing good here. Rewriting an automatic update script I found on the web.
<lotuspsychje> lol, summerstorm over benelux
<lotuspsychje> great tnx EriC^^
<lordievader> The original script would build things one at a time...
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: so after booting up, your script would auto update?
<lordievader> Nah, through anacron it would build packages of the updates and email me that I can install updates if I want to.
<lotuspsychje> ah ic
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/enlightenment-0-19-6-desktop-environment-arrives-with-over-45-bugfixes-487765.shtml
<lotuspsychje> always liked enlightment :p
<lotuspsychje> anyone needs a doctor?
<lotuspsychje> http://www.producthunt.com/tech/icliniq-on-telegram
<TJ-> Received a very neat WaveShare Spotpear touchscreen 480x320px 100mm (4") LCD for the RasPi today; anyone tinkers with that stuff I recommend it
 * ObrienDave waves from Win7ville ;P
<chocoroll> hi
<daftykins> o/
<chocoroll> dafty hi
<EriC^^> hi daftykins
<daftykins> hi sir, how are we?
<EriC^^> good, you?
<daftykins> yes thanks :) just saw my visitor from the US off at the airport today, so back to my lonesome
<daftykins> can relax now ;)
<EriC^^> that's cool
<OerHeks> We just had the "worst storm since 1901"....i remember a huge bad storm in 1990 .. stupid reporters only write what they can find on the internet
<daftykins> :D
<JanC> OerHeks: not to mention the one that flooded half of the Netherlands in between...
<JanC> I would say that was a pretty bad one too...
<OerHeks> Ah, the great washing up,1951 was it?
<JanC> somewhere around then, I don't know the exact date
<OerHeks> I just sended one ACR38U user to #ubuntu-be :-)
<JanC> there is no support in -be really
<OerHeks> oh :-(
<JanC> better send them to -nl or -fr or -de
<OerHeks> As it is a pure Belgium issue, i thought i did the right thing
<JanC> I can try if I'm around and a question is asked, but usually there are much more people in the other channels  :)
<JanC> OerHeks: nickname?
<OerHeks> metemp, i gave him this url https://mark911.wordpress.com/2014/01/04/how-to-get-the-eid-electronic-card-reader-acr38u-working-in-ubuntu-14-04-64-bit/
<JanC> OerHeks: z'n vraag heeft dus niks met BelgiÃ« te maken  :)
<OerHeks> oh ..
<JanC> wil die card reader (proberen) voor iets anders gebruiken
<OerHeks> Oww een prutser dus
<JanC> eh, probably better in English here
<JanC> well, it's somewhat interesting what he tries to do
<ObrienDave> might be better if i actually understood dutch ;P
<OerHeks> But then we loose our secret language to make fun :-(
<OerHeks> ObrienDave, sometimes i do not understand the dutch either :-D
<ObrienDave> *glares at OerHeks*
<ObrienDave> ;p
<OerHeks> We have certain areas, where people speak without moving their lips..
<ObrienDave> O.o
<ObrienDave> o.O
<OerHeks> There sould be a Ubuntu IRC weekly top 5 'most amazing questions people dare to ask'
<OerHeks> this monitor one should be in it.
<ObrienDave> yup
<ObrienDave> afaik all monitors can go down in resolution, not up without damage LMAO
<OerHeks> But then, people lik eme would come up with more fantastic ideas to get in the top5
<OerHeks> :-D
<ObrienDave> break! 5 min
<OerHeks> oh, i have a netbook somewhere .. i almost forgot about. not worth anything to sell.
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-07-26
<OerHeks> wafflejock, this happens when drunk go on irc ?
<OerHeks> ... bank + new website ...
<wafflejock> haha
<wafflejock> I guess, either flustered or wasted who knows :)
<OerHeks> Give him 5 more minutes, and all 10 classic scams come by..
<OerHeks> "some should use windows"
<ObrienDave> are we having fun yet? ;P
<OerHeks> Now we do.
<ObrienDave> at my expense? ;P
<OerHeks> I am a poor guy, you know :-P
<OerHeks> How are you doing, ObrienDave ?
<ObrienDave> LOL join the club :) ok, good. and you?
<OerHeks> Just been woken up, by these burglars http://picpaste.com/2015parkiet-YUZsuVMZ.JPG
<ObrienDave> awwwws cute :)
<ObrienDave> you guys mind if i invite cfhowlett? known him for quite a while
<OerHeks> Sure, he has been here before..
<ObrienDave> ok, just wanted to ask first.
<OerHeks> anybody is welcome i guess, it is not only for helpers to have a backtalk ... officially it is a discussion channel, but that happens mostly in #ubuntu
<ObrienDave> hey cfhowlett god to see you amongst the sane ;P
<ObrienDave> *good
<OerHeks> hi cfhowlett
<cfhowlett> you know, that bartender gave me a dirty look and a dirty glass ...
<ObrienDave> or insane depending on your point of view :P
<ObrienDave> shoot the bartender ;P
<OerHeks> Bartender ! trow away those first 6 beers please, they don't taste that good ,...
<cfhowlett> I said "HEY Muchruto!!  Do you know who I am?"
<ObrienDave> ruh roh, the Samuel Jackson is coming out ;P
<cfhowlett> "Black Snake Moan"
<ObrienDave> lordy, my money is on Strldent not coming back LOL
<OerHeks> uh oh, did i wreck his system ?
<ObrienDave> seriously doubt that. i'm betting on pebcak ;P
<OerHeks> there is a labrador running wild, in and out ;-)
<ObrienDave> your dog?
<OerHeks> No, he is sleeping, with one eye open @ me
<OerHeks> i noticed a user labrador in #ubuntu
<ObrienDave> ah so
<ObrienDave> lordy, a live one in Xubuntu
<ObrienDave> another happy customer? LOL
<ObrienDave> moar beer needed ;P
<OerHeks> moar beer ... and pizza ... if not, then taco's .. else beer
<OerHeks> goto mouth
<ObrienDave> above else, moar beer ;P
<OerHeks> no no
<OerHeks> on error, moar beer
<OerHeks> fi
<ObrienDave> if error, drink beer
<ObrienDave> fi
<ObrienDave>  ;P
<OerHeks> #!bin/beer
<ObrienDave> legend> I see. I hope windows community patch this limitation in upcoming windows 10.
<ObrienDave> yea, GLWT LMAO
<OerHeks> miauw
<OerHeks> Any mice around trying to escape the gui?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> nutjob users once again
<OerHeks> so cheesy yes
<OerHeks> i am not sure what cheesy means, it sounds funny
<Bashing-om> has my notice, no want a GUI, but want to use a mouse ?  Now that is going to take some doing .
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> my fear is the mysql/apache install ...
<EriC^^> hiya daftykins
<EriC^^> and OerHeks, Bashing-om
<OerHeks> Evening EriC^^
<EriC^^> evening OerHeks
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> ugh smartphones
<daftykins> my Nexus 4 is going crazy, so having to factory reset it :(
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Are we having fun now ? \o/
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: :D
<holoferens> Hey anyone here?
<ObrienDave> never ;P
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-25
<Bashing-om> !register
<ubot5> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type Â« /nick <nickname> Â» to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
<ducasse> morning all!
<OerHeks> hi ducasse, right on time to do what you do best
<ducasse> busy today?
<OerHeks> No, not really
<daftykins> ooh you two have hard to separate nicks :>
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> mornin' \o
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-26
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> Enough is enough .. calling it for this session. G nite
<ducasse> morning all
<OerHeks> geutmeurning ducasse
<ducasse> god morgen, OerHeks
<ducasse> how are things?
<OerHeks> boring .. a little. how are you today?
<ducasse> good, thanks. had a very busy day yesterday, hoping today will be a bit slower.
<OerHeks> and .. there is our EriC^^ :-D
<EriC^^> hey OerHeks :D
<ducasse> morning, EriC^^
<EriC^^> morning ducasse :)
<ducasse> EriC^^: everything good?
<EriC^^> yeah thanks, yourself?
<ducasse> still waking up :)
<EriC^^> :)
<ducasse> very happy, though - seem to have fixed my keyboard. :)
<EriC^^> cool, what had happened to it?
<ducasse> when pressing a couple of the keys, they sent two or more events. _annoying_. bought some pressurized air, blew out dust, and it seems a lot better.
<EriC^^> nice
<ducasse> it's an expensive, new keyboard, so i didn't really want to have to get a new one.
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> a handy tip is to always put the soda can or cup next to the keyboard not in front of it
<EriC^^> i spilled quite a few soda's then someone online told me that and i haven't split one (yet)
<ducasse> :) i have a sneaking suspicion what was/is inside it is cat hair. she loves sleeping on my desk while i work...
<EriC^^> hehe
<EriC^^> i want a cat pretty bad
<ducasse> i grew up with them so i can't live without. my previous cat was ran over just before easter, i was pretty heartbroken :-/
<OerHeks> tons of kittens here for free
<EriC^^> damn
<ducasse> uber-cool animals :) 'you need a dog to adore you and a cat to ignore you' :)
<EriC^^> there was a cat next to my car, she was pregnant recently, when she walked it looked pretty funny
<EriC^^> her stomach was like  -/\=[][]=/\=-
<ducasse> :)
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> do you have a dog?
<ducasse> no dogs, just a cat. got her from a shelter, so she's sterilized, thankfully.
<EriC^^> cool
<EriC^^> is she high maintenance?
<ducasse> dogs are a lot more work :)
<EriC^^> sorry for all the cat questions, i've just really been keen on getting one for a couple years now
<ducasse> but in the mornings she's very "human! where's my breakfast!?"
<EriC^^> hehe
<ducasse> i'd advice you to get a female cat if you don't want a _lot_ of dead/half-living birds and mice. male cats also fight, so can need more trips to a vet.
<EriC^^> aha
<OerHeks> male cat spray urine everywhere :-(
<EriC^^> they do?!
<ducasse> some of them, yes.
<EriC^^> i live in an apartment
<ducasse> none of mine ever have, but i know it happens.
<EriC^^> and my family won't let me put it in the house, but i have a closed balcony i was thinking she/he could live there
<EriC^^> and i'd bring it from there to my room when i'm home
<EriC^^> the balcony is pretty big, but she/he would be alone there when i'm not home
<ducasse> from what the pros say, a cat needs at least an area of 45m2 to live a good life.
<EriC^^> hmm
<EriC^^> my room is like 30m2 max i'd think
<EriC^^> the problem is my family thinks cats have diseases and bla bla
<EriC^^> old thinking and stuff, they think the cat's breath causes diseases and stuff too
<EriC^^> i could always get one and if it's unhappy i could return it to the place i got it from
<ducasse> i don't know how shelters etc operate where you live, but here they won't give you one if they think it won't be happy.
<ducasse> they don't want people returning cats, because it is upsetting for them to move...
<EriC^^> i'll get it from a pet store
<EriC^^> oh
<OerHeks> Here too, if you choose one, you can collect it the next day.
<OerHeks> most new owners won't return
<OerHeks> but free kittens, that is up to the breeder.
<EriC^^> i want to get a tiny one
<OerHeks> Drabber is a little afraid of cats :-D
<EriC^^> Drabber is your dog?
<OerHeks> yes
<ducasse> remember that if you get a kitten, you will need to get it vaccinated and so on. plus sterilized if it is ever to go outside, best to do while they are very young.
<EriC^^> aha
<ducasse> i think 6 months is the recommended age to do it...
<OerHeks> true, then they won't suffer illness or hormonal problems
<ducasse> plus it's _hell_ when they're in heat. weird sounds, screaming and making advances on furniture.
<ducasse> on a more linux-y note, any of you played civilization 5 on ubuntu? is an intel hd4600 gpu enough?
<EriC^^> http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4600.86106.0.html
<OerHeks> min specs linux Radeon HD 6450 or (NVIDIA): Geforce 640M
<EriC^^> 768p medium settings says 13fps
<OerHeks> (for steam, that is)
<EriC^^> but that's for the newer civilization
<OerHeks> note: Intel Integrated video chipsets (GMA 9XX, HD 3XXX) will not run Civilization V ...
<OerHeks> http://store.steampowered.com/app/8930/
<EriC^^> for civilization 5 it says low 1024x768 55fps
<OerHeks> so i guess, it will
<EriC^^> yup seems good
<ducasse> ok, thanks :) used to love civ, so i'm thinking of trying this one. worst case i'll have to get an nvidia...
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<daftykins> hallo \o
<daftykins> aww you're not joining us in the other place
<BluesKaj> oh forgot to add it to yjr chat list, daftykins
<daftykins> ah :D
<BluesKaj> on yakkety here trying straighten ou the mess , some icons like FF don't appear when added to quick launch etc, and konversation doesn't use my proxy 5 settings etc etc
<daftykins> ooh-err
<BluesKaj> too early in the game methinks
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: :), o/ .
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: o/
<EriC^^> how are you? :)
<Bashing-om> OH .. well enough to be here pounding on a keyboard .. can not be all that bad then .
<EriC^^> :)
<daftykins> !info lm-sensors trusty
<ubot5> lm-sensors (source: lm-sensors): utilities to read temperature/voltage/fan sensors. In component universe, is extra. Version 1:3.3.4-2ubuntu1 (trusty), package size 81 kB, installed size 406 kB
<daftykins> universe, mmmk
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Ya free to help subsume with a UEFI install ?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> pauljw: o/
<pauljw> \o
<Bashing-om> hey pauljw ... WB .
<pauljw> ty, Bashing-om , daftykins , everyone
<Bashing-om> Are we having fun now ?
<daftykins> i just spent an hour researching a battery replacement for a friends wife, this thing is going to be worse to take apart than any of those Apple contraptions
<daftykins> the fun is only just beginning... ;D
<pauljw> i was not aware that wives needed batteries, learn sumpin' new every day.  :D
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh Fun !  The things inquiring minds get into . Something new everyday .
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> pauljw: apparently she's having the morning sickness with baby #2 so all the power helps i bet ^_^
<Bashing-om> " battery replacement for a friends wife " LOL
<daftykins> :D
<pauljw> heheh, i imagine
 * daftykins is not a doctor, but he might be soon
<daftykins> best part is they both are!
<pauljw> :)
<daftykins> i'm now the proud owner of a Raspberry Pi 3 as of this morning, btw
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kzeu7jb80oq0p6v/AACBL9YjVxxpzZCNc93-Th_ya?dl=0
<daftykins> it's now working as a music streamer down in my lounge
<pauljw> awesome
<daftykins> 4 of those around a clients house all playing in sync would be quite something :)
<pauljw> we seem to have lost control of the tv, i picked up a hdmi cable the other day and now we can't keep our daughter from playing minecraft on the bloody thing... :)
<daftykins> ooooooh dear :)
<pauljw> heheh, i'd never messed with such things and it took us about an hour to figure out how to get our laptops to switch over and play on the tv, it is pretty slick.  she knows that when momma wants the tv back there are to be no arguments.
<daftykins> not as simple as the ol' Fn+Function key press?
<daftykins> must say, things have gotten a lot better in Windows land for all of that stuff nowadays
<pauljw> well, perhaps there are secrets that we haven't learned yet.  as it is now, we go into settings and mirror displays and select hdmi sound.  but we've only had the cable for a couple of days.
<daftykins> that's not too bad - yeah i'm sure it depends on the laptop
<daftykins> i bet if you cold booted with it in you'd have automagic :)
<pauljw> that could be, we haven't done that
<pauljw> sorry, we're once again having t-storms and the sat is dropping.  i'll be back in about an hour when this has passed
<OerHeks> just pulled my old Athlon2 2x from the pile of rubble .. lets see what this 4gb machine still can do
<daftykins> frustrate and delay sir, frustrate and delay :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-27
<daftykins> i think i can take some RAM out of the one i got today and turn the 6GB RAM core 2 quad into an 8GB RAM core 2 quad \o/
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Any incinative, I run dual core athlons on 4 gigs of ram .. does well .
<OerHeks> i putted in an ancient nvidia 250
<OerHeks> well, not that ancient, but it is a big card, http://dragoncomputing.co.uk/estore/images/products/1015394081.jpg
<OerHeks> and it works .. now i forgot my password n that testmachine :-D
<OerHeks> good, now i have something to play with.
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, i would still work on this self-build machine, if i didn't got that i3 from my neighbour, he wanted to dump
<daftykins> one of the machines won't even POST now :) time for bed at that i think! g'night all :)
<OerHeks> :-)
<Bashing-om> I am done ,,, see yall .
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<OerHeks> heya lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks how are you?
<OerHeks> good, and you, hard working person?
<lotuspsychje> yes, very
<lotuspsychje> but its good to earn some $$
<lotuspsychje> the benefits of doing overtime hours :p
<OerHeks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> website is building slowly..
<lotuspsychje> my admin has alot of work
<ducasse> \o morning!
<lotuspsychje> morning ducasse
<ducasse> going to work today?
<lotuspsychje> yep
<lotuspsychje> late shift
<ducasse> good, and you still like the job?
<lotuspsychje> but 4 days off this week, good news
<lotuspsychje> yeah sure, it will be perfect to combine with my business
<ducasse> how so?
<lotuspsychje> now its summer season and doing 38h/week
<lotuspsychje> in september it will drop down to 20H/week
<lotuspsychje> so ill have more time to work the ubuntu shop
<ducasse> ahh, i see. when do you think your shop will open?
<lotuspsychje> well ive started already, but alot of paperwork still
<lotuspsychje> and website is building slowly
<ducasse> are you open for business already?
<lotuspsychje> i can only start advertise when website is ready
<lotuspsychje> officially yes
<ducasse> so not aiming for a career as a chef? :)
<lotuspsychje> ill combine them as long as possible
<lotuspsychje> its a sideway business, so less change of bankrupt
<lotuspsychje> chance
<ducasse> right. i saw the website you posted a link to, looking good imo.
<lotuspsychje> yeah its just a default game theme for now
<lotuspsychje> alot of work needed
<OerHeks> hi ducasse
<ducasse> will you also be selling ubuntu phones/tablets?
<ducasse> morning, OerHeks
<OerHeks> yes, a website design costs time ..
<lotuspsychje> yeah ill try ducasse , but i cand find the bq 4.5 online anymore
<lotuspsychje> ill try to re-sell the m10 tablet aswell
<ducasse> me neither, i've been thinking of swapping out my android..
<OerHeks> bq 4.5 and 5 and meizu 5 are all out of stock, meizu 6 will be announced soon i think
<lotuspsychje> ashame...why they let it run out of stock when so popular..
<OerHeks> I think sales are disappointing ..
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<ducasse> must be really tough to break through on mobile...
<lotuspsychje> well ill try to change that
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<OerHeks> ducasse, how would you like your troll, in the morning ? grinn
<ducasse> $deity, this guy is something else...
<OerHeks>  /home/Sync+ .. never knew a + was allowed in /home/username
<ducasse> hmm, i thought it was limited to alphanum...
<OerHeks> yes, i was just checking .. https://paulgorman.org/technical/presentations/linux_username_conventions.pdf
<OerHeks> underscore and - and $ can be used too
<ducasse> $? that's a bit surprising, actually.
<ducasse> not that i ever imagine using it :)
<OerHeks> yes, for me too, only at the end or in between, AFAIK
<ducasse> the first char has to be a-z, or is that no longer true?
<OerHeks> even --force-badname  cannot allow the +
<OerHeks> yes, i think so
<ducasse> hehe - "if you don't understand it, don't bother" :)
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<ducasse> "i read somewhere on the internet that..."
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> yeah ..
<daftykins> we get this one in a UK channel that finds links to disprove you no matter what you say, even if they're 2 year old articles
<ducasse> why don't people check their sources?
<daftykins> worse still, it's a Mint user that refuses to go to the Mint server
<OerHeks> i am having fun man.. reading tortib in #debian
<OerHeks> claiming using debian :-D
<ducasse> i think i remember him/her :)
<OerHeks> Yes he has been with us all week
<daftykins> what's he really using?
<OerHeks> dunno, hanging in elementary and mint channel too, no sign of him there
<daftykins> o0
<OerHeks> actually, he is a little more polite with us than in #debian
<ducasse> the mint crowd should support their own users :( if they think ubuntu is identical, why not use that?
<daftykins> this one claimed they don't answer, so i guess it just lacks a community
<ducasse> odd, wasn't mint recently #1 on distrowatch for quite some time?
<OerHeks> distrowatch .. nice info, but statistics are not saying anything
<ducasse> i understand it's just an indication
<OerHeks> best way to measure is the number of users in a  channel, i think
<OerHeks> but that could also be not true
<ducasse> OerHeks: possibly. i wonder how many of the users in #ubuntu are actually on a derivative, though.
<OerHeks> heh, 50%i think
<daftykins> pesky liars!
<daftykins> the best anyone ever claimed was of benefit to be on Mint was the default codec situation, which they've now removed...
<OerHeks> not removed, just one click
<daftykins> no no, Mint stopped bundling them in their install media because they don't want to do the testing anymore
<OerHeks> oh, they get smarter
<daftykins> clever mint!
<ducasse> never saw a reason to switch to mint, perfectly happy with ubuntu. it's in many ways not a default install, i really like being able to install just what i need/want.
<OerHeks> as we have mate too .. i understand
<ducasse> i frequently hear people criticize ubuntu because of unity, but that's not a good argument...
<OerHeks> those same people do not complain if a newer windows changes a lot of stuf, they like it without seeing it.
<OerHeks> but whow, if ubuntu makes a turn ...
<ducasse> it's odd, yes. they seem to accept anything from ms...
<daftykins> i dunno, 8 made a lot of changes and everyone was up in arms over it
<ducasse> sure, but look at the data gathering/"telemetry" thing - hardly anyone cares.
<daftykins> right, and do you know why? because look at the actual truth behind what that's doing compared with the sensational articles about it
<daftykins> were the articles about ubuntu and amazon searches not the same tinfoil hat wearing rubbish? yup
<ducasse> i never looked that much into it, but i did read the eulas that were published, they were kinda scary. i've no idea what they _actually_ gather, though.
<OerHeks> i hear nobody about musicplayers looking for lyrics/artwork that can be recorded too.
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> or VLC stats
<BluesKaj> I was never a gnome fan or unity, KDE has always been my choice for a DE even on other distros
<daftykins> ducasse: thing was Microsoft's agreements are covering their online services now too, so a lot of it is a blanket thing to cover it all
<OerHeks> i liked KDE too, but after some troubles i went back to unity, though gnome3 is awesome too, if you take your time to get used to it. this is universal i guess for all desktops
<daftykins> so just how gmail reads users email to provide targeted ads, so too can outlook.com - MS' free email service (new name for hotmail) so they write their agreements to cover reading your email there too
<BluesKaj> OerHeks,  no doubt
<ducasse> daftykins: that could be, it was still scary reading :)
<daftykins> it is when taken out of context and sensationalised by today's clickbait journalism
<daftykins> i can't defend all of it though, not being able to turn all the telemetry off is a shame
<daftykins> but so far the things they've published have been about receiving system logs to see that a release day nvidia driver was causing problems, info on the apps people install from the MS store i think...
<daftykins> i think i prefer to just live life than go about paranoid
<OerHeks> "are there any paranoids in the audience tonight? ... pathetic.." i love pink floyd
<BluesKaj> we still phone each other in our family,  email is seldom used even tho everyone quite computer savvy
<ducasse> me too, daftykins, but i *do* read eulas before i accept them, and i'm wary of certain google products etc. personal choice, though, i fully understand that many don't care.
<daftykins> guy in another channel doesn't believe that Microsoft will stop 10 being free this Friday
<daftykins> i can see his point, but i don't think they'd make such a big deal about it ending :)
<OerHeks> err today is the last day, isn't it?
<BluesKaj> W10 is fugly
<OerHeks> we got spam all over from dutch sites
<OerHeks> "are you sure not to upgrade?" and "what to do to get a 10 license in your account with microsoft"
<ducasse> daftykins: do you think i can upgrade a wine install to a full w10 licence? ;)
<OerHeks> winetricks \o/
<OerHeks> ducasse, sure, burn the wine iso to dvd
 * OerHeks ducks
<daftykins> wat
<OerHeks> har har .. "we close this street, because there are too many pokemongo hunters .."
<OerHeks> https://twitter.com/LPAntwerpen/status/758279964391268352
<OerHeks> :-D
<daftykins> oh my word
<daftykins> Bashing-om: wb \o
<OerHeks> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Hey, hey .. what a day .. Let's see what happens in the IRC world .
<daftykins> >:D
<ducasse> is there anywhere new snap packages in the store are announced?
<Bashing-om> ducasse: A quick look: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2321161 ; http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2327088 I did not see anything but maybe you can glean a hint ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i'll read the rest of those tomorrow, thanks. it'd be nice if new snaps were announced somewhere, now we basically have to dig through 'snap find' now and then.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-28
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> heyyyyyyyy :-)
<OerHeks> You fell out of bed, or just got home
<lotuspsychje> fell out by a mosquito :p
<lotuspsychje> grrr nasty animals
<OerHeks> does he have a name ?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> can someone put ubuntu +r ??
<lotuspsychje> !ops
<ubot5> Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - Pici, Myrtti, jrib, Amaranth, tonyyarusso, Nalioth, lamont, CarlK, elky, mneptok, PriceChild, Tm_T, jpds, ikonia, Flannel, genii, wgrant, stdin, h00k, IdleOne, nhandler, Jordan_U, popey, Corey, ocean, cprofitt, djones, Madpilot, gnomefreak, lhavelund, k1l, rww, phunyguy, bazhang, chu
<DalekSec> lotuspsychje: Problem?
<lotuspsychje> DalekSec: in #ubuntu
<OerHeks> DalekSec, can you put +r on #ubuntu? ( for a little while)
<DalekSec> So doesn't really help to call OPs in here then..
<lotuspsychje> DalekSec: its a more silent way
<DalekSec> lotuspsychje: But different access lists.
<OerHeks> True, i have ops here, but not in #ubuntu, lotuspsychje
<DalekSec> Ubuntu members all do. :P
<OerHeks> indeed :-)
<DalekSec> Man, it'd be chaos if #ubuntu had that. :P
<OerHeks> I don't want to be ops at all, but we in #ubuntu-nl have a few positions open, needed.
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: downloading OTA-12
<OerHeks> ah, the wave arrived
<lotuspsychje> lookin good
<lotuspsychje> calendar got bigger fonts with green active day
<lotuspsychje> and system categorie added to top bar
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-15-10-wily-werewolf-has-reach-end-of-life-upgrade-to-ubuntu-16-04-lts-506701.shtml
<OerHeks> r.i.p. werewolf
<lotuspsychje> time to get wily out of topic :p
<lotuspsychje> and see only LTS versions :p
<lotuspsychje> looks interesting OerHeks https://ring.cx/en
<lotuspsychje> skype alternative
<OerHeks> oh, dan kunnen we tegen elkaar kletsen
<lotuspsychje> lol
<OerHeks> nou, als je me wil zien, ik heb een ip-cam .. maar ik ben niet knap hoor
<lotuspsychje> yeah ive controlled your ip cam once :p
<OerHeks> ow wait, english
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<ducasse> \o
<OerHeks> you are 19 minutes late!
<OerHeks> grrrrrrrr
<OerHeks> hi ducasse
<ducasse> what happened at 8 o'clock? :)
<OerHeks> some dude tried to convince me that bumblebee is awesome, better than prima, but he cannot get it to work :-D
<OerHeks> c/prime
<ducasse> heh, doesn't sound like he convinced you ;)
<OerHeks> he disappointed me, yes
<OerHeks> now i have to see my shrink
<OerHeks> daftykins, are you free?
<ducasse> if you do tech support for any length of time you _will_ need therapy, in my experience :)
<OerHeks> True. actually, i think it is healthy, to step out after 9 months for some short period of time ..
<daftykins> OerHeks: morning o/
<daftykins> just got my new keyboard 8D
<daftykins> oooooh bliss!
<OerHeks> You type much smarter now
<daftykins> mmm it feels like it requires so much less effort
<ducasse> ooooh, which did you get, daftykins?
<daftykins> that steelseries M500 with the cherry MX red keys
<daftykins> all its' funky buttons are working without the software too, so i might ignore it entirely
<ducasse> actually looked at those in a shop the other day, looked nice. i prefer cherry blue switches, though.
<daftykins> i decided they were too loud, the blues - they were on my old das
<daftykins> they would irritate anyone i would be on webcam with :)
<ducasse> don't have a webcam, nor a microphone :)
<daftykins> d'aww ;)
<daftykins> i've heard a few people say they annoyed work colleagues when they took a blue switch board to work XD
<ducasse> or one of the old ibm model b's :)
<daftykins> OerHeks: so someone made you try bumblebee? ruh-roh
<daftykins> this is the trouble with #ubuntu folks, they resist change once deprecation comes about
<OerHeks> no, that guy tried to convince me that it works great, but he didn't get it to work :-D
<daftykins> XD
<OerHeks> and furter-on he said i asked him about it, grinn
<OerHeks> and then ducasse came out of bed, 18 minutes late
<daftykins> lets sneak in and change his alarm ;)
<daftykins> oof i best go do my proper wakeup now, i only got up for the postman delivering my keyboard
<ducasse> don't have an alarm as such, mine is built-in :)
<OerHeks> my alarm has a tail and 2 brown eyes
<OerHeks> went off 03:15 this morning ...
<ducasse> well, i've got one too, but she usually gives up after a few attempts.
<daftykins> OerHeks: wow what did Drabber want? :)
<OerHeks> He wanted a walk & cookie
<OerHeks> i told him to use firefox, but he insisted me
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we are staff to our pets!
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<daftykins> gm \o
<ducasse> hi, BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi daftykins, ducasse
<daftykins> haha i'm RMAing some 7 year old RAM :D
<daftykins> go lifetime warranty \o/
<BluesKaj> RMAing?
<OerHeks> isn'tlifetime waranty 5 years?
<OerHeks> hi BluesKaj
<daftykins> return material auth, so replacement under warranty
<BluesKaj> really eh, must have been $$$
<daftykins> http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/support/warranty
<daftykins> nah not really, let's see... i had to dig out my original invoice
<daftykins> Â£66.94 for 2x2GB DDR2 :)
<OerHeks> This version of the warranty applies to products purchased on or after April 15, 2014 ..
<daftykins> yeah they've pretty much always been good though
<daftykins> so cheap to make RAM, makes sense to give it their faith
<daftykins> costs them near nothing to send out some replacements :)
<de-facto> is lifetime meant for the life of the RAM or for the user who installed it? :P
<OerHeks> life of the OS
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/pIr9T
<daftykins> just seen that XD
<daftykins> i got the RMA guys!
<daftykins> 7 year old RAM and still good :)
<daftykins> they even have a set in stock O_O
<ducasse> wow, that's pretty good :)
<daftykins> have to post them to the Netherlands
<OerHeks> \o/
<OerHeks> ow wait, not to me
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> i posted the Guernsey fudge to lotus today :)
<daftykins> he'll get a surprise soon!
<ducasse> they're broken anyway, OerHeks :)
<daftykins> hehe that's true, well 1 x 2GB out of the 2 x 2GB kit is faulty
<daftykins> and faulty in a really weird way, too
<ducasse> "weirdly faulty ram" tends to be interesting.
<daftykins> so it can work, it can memtest fine... but if you disconnect all mains power for 10+ minutes, it won't POST after that
<daftykins> some motherboards will even display a message stating the BIOS is corrupt
<ducasse> who the hell are these #wrongplanet idiots - kids?
<OerHeks> dunno, those spammers run for fun
<OerHeks> and i see same ips over and over again
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> someone hitting #ubuntu ?
<OerHeks> yeah, trains of spammers
<ducasse> can't they be banned?
<OerHeks> well, #freenode blocks ranges of bouncers, and such, but not enough, there are lots of complaints about that
<daftykins> seemed to me the serious stuff only happened when ops weren't around :/
<ducasse> lately this has happened daily, or several times a day, and it always seems to be the #wrongplanet crowd (or someone who wants to blame them)
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> has an op done anything?
<OerHeks> with single #
 * daftykins nudges dax
<OerHeks> holiday time i guess
<daftykins> could be!
<daftykins> good to know
<daftykins> they're only around when dafty calls someone an idiot ;D
<ducasse> what did he actually do for you to call him that? :)
<daftykins> the guy had been in-channel for a week asking for help, seeing us tell tonnes of others that 16.04 wasn't out yet so they should be in #ubuntu+1 - yet didn't think that applied to himself
<daftykins> it was only on my turn that the version was admitted
<ducasse> aha, i see. i get the frustration, you get people in there doing the strangest things some times...
<daftykins> yip, it's the deception that was my #1 pet peeve
<dax> yay Drone
<daftykins> dax: ops working hard as usual?
<ducasse> that bot is earning it's keep :)
<dax> this one's working hard in real life
<dax> if any of you have ever worked with windows licensing, you can probably guess how frustrated i am right now
<daftykins> haha
<ducasse> thankfully, never :)
<daftykins> thankfully not within a corporate context
<dax> ducasse: #wrongplanet is a channel for autistic folks. As such, it tends to have some drama. Every so often, one of the drama people decides to start spamming other channels claiming to be acting on behalf of #wrongplanet, so that people join #wrongplanet and get angry
<hggdh> dax: try IBM licencing
<daftykins> small biz, totally fine
<ducasse> oracle, though...
<dax> i.e., it's some disgruntled idiot, not actual #wp ops or anything
<dax> hggdh: true
<dax> thankfully, our vendor handles Oracle licensing for us, it's included with our license for the vendor's product
<ducasse> dax: this was 10+ years ago, i understand it's gotten much worse now.
<dax> daftykins: yeah, we're at the scale that we use a key management system, which tends to not work when people completely ignore best practices and then yell at me when it takes time to pick up the pieces
<dax> it has not been a good week
<daftykins> :> yeah i've read about the KMS mess
<dax> thankfully Windows 10 can do activation through active directory. but we're not on Windows 10, so that's not much help right now :3
<daftykins> the place i used to teach at have a really hellish game licensing the students' test systems now
<daftykins> i'm sure a migration to 10 would be the next most enjoyable task ;)
<dax> it's getting better. i wish we could just use an OS that doesn't need me to faff around with DRM though
<dax> such a waste of time
<daftykins> you'd only have a different batch of problems using FOSS
<daftykins> and if you disagree with that, you're living a lie :)
<Bashing-om> !15.10
<ubot5> Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) was the 23rd release of Ubuntu. Download at http://releases.ubuntu.com/15.10 - Read the release notes at http://ubottu.com/y/wily - Scheduled to go EOL on July 28th, 2016
<dax> is that thing officially dead yet
<dax> i haven't been paying attention
<hggdh> just died
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-29
<Bashing-om> calling it .. later guys.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> morning OerHeks
<OerHeks> hi lotuspsychje :-D
<lotuspsychje> only LTS in topic :p
<dax> indeedy
<dax> the people who want #ubuntu split into #ubuntu-lts and #ubuntu-not-lts-or-something-idk have their wish temporarily :3
<\9> ah 15.10's support's been dropped now
<lotuspsychje> nice
<lotuspsychje> new 16.10 lubuntu wallpaper rox
<lotuspsychje> best ever
<ducasse> \o
<lotuspsychje> bbl :p
<ducasse> for ubuntu-maintained software like unity, are feature requests made on the bugtracker?
<popey> generally, yes, but if someone has a design /prototype then usually a mailing list post or blog post is more appropriate
<popey> but bugs are fine
<ducasse> ok, thanks - i'll remember that next time someone asks.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning
<ducasse> \o
<ducasse> i clearly won't be getting any more asus boards if this is the state of their firmware now...
<daftykins> ducasse: firmware is bad on every brand for Linux i think!
<daftykins> it's a sign of how life is harder for your choices unfortunately, across the board - not the brand
<ducasse> yup, seems a general trend. i worry about hardware might become more locked down in the future, with things like secure boot that can't be disabled etc.
<daftykins> there's been as much sensational reporting about that as there has been about Windows these days, i have yet to come up against a system that couldn't be Linuxified! :)
<ducasse> a lot of distros support sb anyway, but not all, and systems where it can not be disabled has started to appear, unfortunately.
<ducasse> i just instinctively distrust hardware with drm and similar crap :)
<daftykins> i did hear concerns they would go that way, but we never had one in all my time in #ubuntu at least
<daftykins> there were a couple where extra options became available once you set a password inside apparently
<ducasse> i've seen those, but there has been at least one in #ubuntu recently that i recall where it definitely could not be turned off, and one yesterday where reviews had said that option was missing.
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> 99% of the time i think it's the challenge of dealing with the users :(
<ducasse> didn't dig into the last one any more as i was busy.
<ducasse> it can be hard just getting them into the bios :)
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> can't save 'em all
<daftykins> oh come to think of it, those really cheap Lenovos with the eMMC 'SSD' that come with like, "windows 8.1 with bing" are often a no go
<daftykins> but that's the case of someone trying to be too budget and getting burnt for it
<ducasse> if they are "certified for wondows 8/8.1", there _must_ be an option to disable sb. not so for w10.
<ducasse> *windows, obviously.
<ducasse> but those cheap notebooks are so often utter crap.
<ducasse> ('must' as in, according to the certification rules. not saying nobody has ever broken them.)
<ducasse> backups <3
<ducasse> also, zfs snapshots <3
<BluesKaj> daftykins, I have an inexpensive lenovo G500 laptop that had W8.1 which i promptly removed and replaced with kubuntu then added W7 and it runs very well on both OSs. no eMMC SSD tho just a !TB HDD and 8G Ram
<daftykins> BluesKaj: yeah that's not "8.1 with Bing", which is a totally different animal - sometimes it uses a 32-bit EFI to make modification a hassle
<BluesKaj> altho windows update hasn't updated a thing since june 13 ...it tries but nothing comes down
<JanC> ducasse: secure boot seems to work fine with my ASUS motherboard?
<daftykins> unfortunately they've gimped WU on pre-10 now so i've seen it take 12 hours to check for updates :(
<daftykins> JanC: no two boards are the same ;) anecdotal evidence is no proof
<ducasse> JanC: sure, but there are disadvantages to using it, and some people just plain don't want it.
<JanC> disadvantages?
<ducasse> JanC: like with 16.04 kernel modules need to be signed when sb is enabled, so you must either disable it or sign yourself if using dkms.
<JanC> well, obviously
<ducasse> JanC: that is a major hassle for a lot of users, so most simply disable it.
<JanC> although, that's more a "limitation" of the kernel really
<BluesKaj> daftykins, wth is Bing? , don't recall that
<ducasse> JanC: it's a kernel option, but also how sb was designed to work aiui.
<daftykins> BluesKaj: Bing is microsoft's search engine, 8.1 with Bing is a cheap license for computer OEMs to put on low cost machines that defaults to Bing as the search engine all across it
<daftykins> kinda like a way to provide windows 8 cheap on netbook-esque systems in the modern day in place of the old strategy of XP on netbooks
<BluesKaj> oh that, now I remember, I tend to dismiss stuff the I don't care about, even in the memory :-)
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> know your enemy, i say :>
<daftykins> too many #ubuntu 'customers' picking up cheap machines and wondering why they can't get Linux on
<JanC> UEFI SB only applies as far as when it loads/boots "something", after that the next step in the chain is doing it's own checking
<\9> what is the usual reason for that?
<daftykins> reason for what?
<\9> for their linux not working
<daftykins> some of these machines used 32-bit EFIs which complicates matters
<\9> oh
<daftykins> others implemented methods hardcoded to only boot a given image name in the EFI partition, also...
<daftykins> there are several strategies employed really
<daftykins> EriC^^ is our resident boot expert :>
 * \9 is supposed to get a new computer todayâ¦ in pieces
<BluesKaj> \9, barebones kit  or enhanced with goodies ?
<\9> getting a pretty high-end one
<ducasse> new computers in pieces are the best kind :)
<\9> except i did not get a graphics card because i don't know what kind of graphics card i need, or i even need one
<\9> so I'm reserving the right to decide later :P
<daftykins> sounds wise to me, what with the ubiquity of on-die graphics now
<BluesKaj> gpus are a matter for what the machine is used...just an inexpensive nvidia 8400GS here for video and movies no games
<daftykins> i booted 16.04.1 on an 8400GS on one of these old core 2 duos and found it particularly grating on nouveau
<\9> indeed, so I'm going to roll with integrated for now until I hit a wall
<BluesKaj> daftykins, yeah nouveau doesn't do too weel on the 8400
<BluesKaj> well
<daftykins> *nod* i find myself wondering what hardware it does work with!
<daftykins> my understanding was that AMD have only just begun their new open source driver development, so no ideas how that's running for now - if i used Linux i'd probably still buy nvidia
<BluesKaj> nvidia-340 is the recommended driver and it's fine
<daftykins> i think i was fiddling and had a disparate configuration between HWE stacks, kernels and X.org packages at the time so installing proprietary gave me failed logins... which is amusingly what happened to all those folks i used to help XD
<daftykins> it wasn't an important install though, just a brief test
<\9> yay, my pieces just arrived!
<daftykins> \o/
 * daftykins gets the glue
<EriC^^> hello guys
<EriC^^> what's cracking?
<daftykins> hey!
<daftykins> mmm not much going on with me, posted some 7 year old RAM under warranty today :D
<daftykins> fixed a friends wifes phone just by touching it XD the usual!
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> haha
<daftykins> how are you?
<EriC^^> i'm good
<EriC^^> some mechanic kind of screwed me over
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> tell us his/her name and we'll send Tux over
<EriC^^> $1000 for parts, $600 for labor, should have been like $300 for labor + he lied and put the wrong part
<daftykins> wowzer
<daftykins> anything you can do?
<EriC^^> i could have him get another part but he's a liar
<EriC^^> if i tell him it's not it he could make up a million shit
<daftykins> have you paid already?
<EriC^^> yeah
<daftykins> doh :(
<EriC^^> it's the steering rack
<EriC^^> he put a normal bmw steering rack and the m2 one is shorter, so like when i turn a corner usually it needs like 15' or so now it needs maybe 30'
<daftykins> mmm that could be a bit dangerous in the long run surely
<EriC^^> it's a classic m3 (first one bmw made) and the steering is like part of it's characteristics so it sucks that he didn't put the m3 rack
<EriC^^> dangerous no, it just isn't that nice to drive, and lost a little of it's characteristic
<daftykins> :<
<EriC^^> it had leaked like 4 years ago, and i didn't put a normal rack for it (couldn't find the m3 one) and i rather drove it without power steering til i figured something out
<EriC^^> then i came up with a way to get it to work
<EriC^^> and this guy said he has m3 parts and i was fixing other stuff and he said he could fit it, so i figured yeah sure
<EriC^^> and he lied
<ducasse> EriC^^: can't you just ask him 'hypothetically' how hard it would be to do car repairs while in a wheelchair? ;)
<daftykins> hahaha
<EriC^^> lol
<ducasse> not nice, i know.
<\9> gee it feels like christmas opening that package
<\9> time to sink into manuals
<daftykins> :D
<\9> ~
<OerHeks> ~~~~~/\~~~~~~\o/~~~~~~
 * daftykins taps his foot
 * OerHeks whiskers his ears
<Bashing-om> Gotta run to town .. be back shortly ( most likely).
<daftykins> Tuxspeed, sir
<Bashing-om> Thanky daftykins .. was .. now to play catchup on what happened whilest away .
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/r1ouC this happened!
<daftykins> ;)
<Bashing-om> Nice fresh, shiney and new .. so pretty when so clean !
<daftykins> :D it's actually 7 years old and has blown capacitors, but by chance i found out the RAM that *was* in it was faulty, so i gave it another spin just now and it came up!
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh .. so now you are a qualified soldier ?
<daftykins> oh i wish, i should learn soon though - no, oddly it still works with 5+ bad caps on
<daftykins> i'm sure it's a bad idea to use for any length of time whilst they're still bad, but i thought i'd give it a quick try ;)
<daftykins> * :)
<Bashing-om> :) nothing succeeds like trying .
<Bashing-om> daftykins: ^^ 7 yr old .. how in the world did you get the fan blades so clean ?
<daftykins> Bashing-om: hehe, toothbrush :)
<Bashing-om> Ho-kay .. now I am a believer in toothbrushes ..
<daftykins> they're pretty good though the retail intel ones, very reliable in my experience too
<quantibiliy> alright who else is having some issues with ubuntu 16?
<Bashing-om> quantibiliy: Not me .. 16.04 - updatd to 16.04.1 .. solid as a rock . No fault here .
<quantibiliy> yeah then perhaps its xubuntu's issue sorry to bother, just angry
<daftykins> not the right channel for a support query
<Bashing-om> quantibiliy: Being in an angry state, clouds one judgemnet . This is 'buntu, and we do believe where there is a problem there is a solution .
<quantibiliy> yes im trying to calm down
<quantibiliy> i had my set up great didn't realize when i "removed obsolete software" I got rid of my graphics drivers and various other things..
<quantibiliy> and yet still haven't fixed my indicator box either..
<quantibiliy> thought it would
<daftykins> try from the guest account / a clean account, could be your dot files.
<quantibiliy> daftykins,  yes a fresh install or possibly a guest account... could make the indicator box stay to the right but its hugging to the left of the bar, it happens once you try to add or remove panel
<daftykins> mmhmm
<quantibiliy> i mean the bar fills and pushes the indicators to the right.. so tits not blocking anything just won't stay to the right
<Bashing-om> Yuk .. back from power outage . - back is a good thing .
<daftykins> erk!
<daftykins> i don't miss those days of regular power disruption
<Bashing-om> When Oh when am I going to repair that UPS !
<daftykins> first thing Monday!
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Recon mike is making more of this than it is .. beating himself up real bad ! Is he ready now to learn ?
<OerHeks> well, i have no clue how to tell him, that 635m is not the newest, and that he should be happy with it.
<OerHeks> best advise is the auto install, that gives (even with ppa) the best driver tested.
<OerHeks> this is his 4th day trying, AFAIK
<daftykins> :)
<Bashing-om> Uh huh .. will keep that in mind .. the system should know what is best .
<OerHeks> we exchanges lists, didn't we? i have a part for systemd and drivers, still need to go through yours and monkeydust lists
<OerHeks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/21456561/
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> so that's how you guys do it :D
<Bashing-om> we get 10% pf the proceeds ( royalty fee ) :)
<daftykins> hahaha
<OerHeks> for every pennie, i give 2 pennies to the WHOTTW-fund
<OerHeks> who-helps-oerheks-through-the-winter*
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hmm some of my favourites are quite rarely useful, perhaps - such as watching your CPU clock speeds scale in realtime:
<daftykins> watch -n 0.1 'grep -i mhz /proc/cpuinfo'
<daftykins> a really ugly way to see progress from dd:
<daftykins> watch -n 30 'sudo kill -USR1 $pid_of_dd'
<OerHeks> packagemanager gives a nice progressbar in terminal nowadays
<daftykins> oh? i'd vaguely heard of better ways for progress but can't remember them, yet
<OerHeks> that needa a package iirc
<Bashing-om> I still do 'dd' progress the old fashioned way .. the directive is in the man command .
<daftykins> oh? i was using -USR1 via kill on the PID, just chaining it with 'watch' so i could get an output every 30 seconds
<OerHeks> !info pq
<ubot5> pq (source: pq): Progress Quest is a "fire and forget" computer role-playing game. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 6.2-0ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 318 kB, installed size 496 kB
<OerHeks> !info pv
<ubot5> pv (source: pv): Shell pipeline element to meter data passing through. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.0-1 (xenial), package size 48 kB, installed size 169 kB
<daftykins> EriC^^: wb!
<EriC^^> thanks daftykins
 * daftykins tests another board since the surprise faulty RAM confirmation
<OerHeks> yay !cookie Bashing-om
<OerHeks> hoi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey OerHeks
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: I never had a doubt was operator error .. in mike's case . :)
<OerHeks> i guess we would have found plenty of bugreports
<Bashing-om> Still, with a long way to go in thoughtful progression to fault isolation .
<OerHeks> the future will be boring, with such tools.
<Bashing-om> Oh the day .. AI .. and computers do our think'n for us . sheessshhh.
<OerHeks> You are a rare pokemon :-D
<Bashing-om> One of these days I will know as much as I think I know, and add to what I know what OerHeks knows .. than I will be a rare pokemon :-)
<OerHeks> i can imagine, with the knowledge of daftykins on top of that, they'Äºl be hunting for ya
<daftykins> ooh this other board POSTs again :D
<daftykins> silly faulty RAM tricked me!
<Bashing-om> Well .. the better thing is that I have access to yall here on IRC .. and I have direct access to yall's brains . ( do not have to consume my own personal ram ) .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-30
<Bashing-om> Done for this session; later .
<ducasse> morning all
<OerHeks> Hi ducasse
<ducasse> hi OerHeks - how are you today?
<OerHeks> my dog just ran off with a piece of garlicbread
<OerHeks> good, and how do you do?
<ducasse> fine, thanks, just served the cat breakfast and boiled some tea. the first things that need to be done in the morning :)
<OerHeks> my dog does not like tea
<ducasse> seems he (she?) likes garlicbread, though.
<ducasse> EriC^^: do you know much about legacy booting with gpt partition layout?
<daftykins> he's the boot king :D
<daftykins> morning \o well, afternoon but who's counting :)
<EriC^^> yeah you need a bios-boot partition for it to work
<ducasse> \o daftykins, how are things?
<EriC^^> hey daftykins :D
<ducasse> EriC^^: we had a guy yesterday, i told him to make one, and it still refused to boot.
<ducasse> it's known to be problematic, the arch wiki says?
<daftykins> mmm not much happening here to be honest, still in bed from the laptop and making plans with friends who are over on the island from England for the weekend, talk of a bbq :D
<EriC^^> not really
<EriC^^> did he make it in the first 2tb of the disk?
<ducasse> EriC^^: 500gb disk, so yes.
<daftykins> why did they make the disk GPT? thats like, a facepalm moment
<EriC^^> hmm
<ducasse> in the end i told him to switch to uefi mode and reinstall with an efi partition. worked.
<ducasse> daftykins: the disk was gpt after a windows install, he just deleted the partition.
<ducasse> but i was curious about why it refused to boot with the bios boot partition.
 * daftykins runs off with OerHeks' garlic bread - ah Drabber, you are an excellent decoy
<ducasse> now you have that for the bbq!
<EriC^^> :D
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> i think our friends parents are feeding us for free o0
<daftykins> yay at being over 30 and still going around school time friends places and being fed for free XD
<daftykins> thats life on a small island for you!
<ducasse> make sure they don't drug the food and sell you into slavery. ;)
<daftykins> D:
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> hi sir
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<daftykins> how goes it over there?
<BluesKaj> Hi daftykins very well thanks, beautiful day here. How about there?
<daftykins> mmm if i'm honest i haven't opened the blinds and looked out yet :D but i hope it's good, theres a bbq planned!
<BluesKaj> BBQ rocks :-)
<ducasse> daftykins: do you know a good technique for applying thermal paste, or do i just put a small dab in the middle?
<EriC^^> maybe put all over it
<BluesKaj> oops, mounted transistors etc with thermal paste ..still have a Heathkit AA29 amp built in 1972 in working condition
<ducasse> what i'm finding online is very contradictory, i just assumed i shouldn't use too much.
<EriC^^> really? i've never used one myself but i know about thermal stuff from uni (studied mech engineering) it makes sense that you need the least amount possible but over the whole surface area to remove any discrepencies in the materials
<BluesKaj> well, you can always doogle, don't think the technique has changed much tho
<EriC^^> over the whole surface area, but just enough not too much
<BluesKaj> doogle=google :-)
<ducasse> a couple of tips online said that a dab in the middle would be spread evenly over the service when the cooler is pressed down - i have no idea, that's why i asked :)
<BluesKaj> not too thick if you spread it, also depends on what kind of surface
<EriC^^> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjF5jabXRCY
<EriC^^> when in doubt, youtube
<ducasse> :)
<ducasse> thanks, i'll view that.
<daftykins> ducasse: sorry i'd fallen asleep D:
<daftykins> yeah different people have different methods, i like to use my arctic silver 5 and a knife to spread a thin layer out over the heatspreader, then the leftover on the knife i wipe onto the heatsink contact surface... then i rub that in with a piece of toilet paper or cotton pad to fill up the microscopic gaps in the metal (which discolours it slightly)
<daftykins> works well :>
<ducasse> daftykins: ok, thanks - i'll try that. the thermal paste i have is noctua nt-h1, it was supposed to be a safe choice :)
<ducasse> i'm mounting a noctua nh-u12s on an i7 4790k, it gets too hot under heavy load with the stock cooler.
<daftykins> hmm that usually only happens with bad case cooling
<daftykins> http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/vl/intel_app_method_vertical_line_v1.1.pdf
<daftykins> hmm they changed how they do it, it seems!
<daftykins> i've seen folks do it that way online
<ducasse> the temp inside the case is good, and for everything except the cpu when under full load for an extended period of time.
<daftykins> heh makes sense, my method was from back in the day before heatspreaders took off...
<daftykins> what are you seeing for temps at max load?
<daftykins> just curious, it always makes sense to have a fancier cooler :)
<ducasse> up to 80Â°C
<daftykins> oof
<ducasse> at normal load it rarely exceeds 30.
<daftykins> is that using the on-chip graphics or do you have a discrete card?
<ducasse> on-die.
<daftykins> mmm
<ducasse> i asked in ##hardware, and they said it was pretty common to see that with the stock cooler.
<daftykins> they're idiots in there though
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i didn't get banned though! i don't go there :D but i know someone who pastes their crazy on a regular basis
<ducasse> yeah, i asked about thermal paste and got tthe answer "use this much ---> ."
<daftykins> oh dear
<ducasse> that's not very helpful.
<ducasse> the other things they said about cooling seemed to make sense, as it mirrored what i was reading elsewhere. there were a lot of reports of heating with the 4790k and the stock cooler.
<daftykins> ah maybe they bundled a bad one with that specific model
<daftykins> my i7 6700 (non-K) is idling in the low to mid 20s, using a discrete graphics card
<ducasse> possible. it works really well for everything except encoding video, for example :)
<ducasse> mine too.
<ducasse> (with on-die gpu)
<daftykins> ooh i worked out how to enable HEVC hardware decode the other day, this huge Sony 4K sample file plays as smooth as now with only 5% CPU load
<ducasse> nice, which gpu?
<daftykins> nvidia 1070 :)
<ducasse> those are actually kinda scary ;)
<daftykins> Bit rate                       : 75.6 Mbps
<daftykins> Maximum bit rate               : 123 Mbps
<daftykins> 1.12GB for a 2 minute sample
<daftykins> oh that's 10 bit HDR too
<ducasse> is this linux or windows?
<daftykins> windows with MPC-HC
<daftykins> i'd have to have a screw loose to buy cutting edge hardware and then run Linux
<ducasse> yes, i would think the linux libs lag a little there.
<daftykins> i think ffmpeg added full decode support a couple of weeks ago
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8iiftw23glst03v/AAAD3QXUYgpmkNdK2LYNVJqca?dl=0
<daftykins> few snaps of when i got the 1070 there :)
<ducasse> i bought "recent enough" hardware, didn't want to wait 6-12 months for support.
<daftykins> with free Haribo!
<ducasse> \o/
<ducasse> dear $deity, that card is a *monster*.
<daftykins> mmm i thought my 560Ti was chunky back 5 or so years ago
<ducasse> the only discrete gpu i own is an amd hd5450 :)
<daftykins> now they screw huge metal backplates to them to stop the PCBs warping
<ducasse> because heat?
<daftykins> nah weight
<ducasse> ah. these chips are getting very impressive, though.
<daftykins> not sure if you read much hardware news, but this thing is an efficiency king - sits here as i'm at the desktop with the fans off and sorta, 35 deg C temps
<daftykins> fans only spin up once it warms up to 60 deg C :)
<ducasse> hehe, there was a guy in #ubuntu maybe two weeks back who was *insisting* on buying an amd cpu, and asked for a good mobo that supported a cpu with 220w tdp :)
<daftykins> mmm AMD have slipped big time :( it's really sad
<daftykins> hopefully their new Zen CPUs at the end of the year will be nicer though, good to have competition of course
<ducasse> those cpus are horrible. *utterly* horrible. i hope zen can keep up, yes.
<ducasse> really liked amd at one point.
<daftykins> i keep looking at the blown caps on this little motherboard (which it turns out still works) and wishing i could solder :D
<ducasse> hehe - i suck at soldering :) what kind of board?
<daftykins> https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5KPLAM/ super budget old thing
<daftykins> ooh an ebay special snap - http://i.ebayimg.com/t/ASUS-P5KPL-AM-SE-LGA775-Socket-G31-Intel-Dual-Core-1333-MHz-Motherboard-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqR,!pwE-)Y0FdzcBP7(MghG)g~~60_57.JPG
<ducasse> i've got one from the same gen, p5b-v i think. still works, but switched off.
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> my theory right now is that the caps blew and then killed one of the RAM modules (which i've sent for a free replacement)
<daftykins> that means both of my 2 core 2 quad machines will have 8GB RAM now :)
<ducasse> wehey! :)
<daftykins> right now i still have another core 2 duo 2.8GHz spare though so i've been playing with it in these 3 boards i have left
<ducasse> i've thought about spinning up my c2d again, but power usage...
<daftykins> one works but has fried USB from a lightning strike, the one above with the bad caps and another that's totally dead
<daftykins> mmm they are quite the tanks now
<ducasse> mine works just fine, but i haven't looked for blown caps or anything lately. it's just in a cupboard in case i suddenly need a backup machine for something..
<daftykins> *nod* best use probably! i thought this one wasn't POSTing because of the blown caps, but eventually i found this one RAM module was making every board it was in act out
<daftykins> so it runs now, but i think it's unwise to use because it'll probably damage components i put in
<daftykins> i really struggle to think of the use for a core 2 duo level machine, too...
<ducasse> me too. i _thought_ about using it with pfsense as a firewall, and bought a mikrotik :)
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/r1ouC
<ducasse> :)
<ducasse> the mikrotik stuff is really nice, though, thinking about getting an ap from them.
<ducasse> hmmm... the guy i was helping said he was terminating his x session, and hasn't come back. i guess that didn't work, then :)
<daftykins> ruh roh
<daftykins> sounds like your calendar just opened up 8D
<ducasse> he was doing an upgrade from trusty to xenial, obviously with quite a lot of ppas, and it did _not_ go well. surprise.
<daftykins> fancy that :)
<ducasse> i told him 5 hours ago it would be quicker to backup+reinstall, but he's still at it.
<ducasse> nice troll - "fff | When I type MOUNT C C:\ it won't mount the drive"
<daftykins> hah that sounds like DOSbox
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Soldering-Helping-Desolder-Beginners-soldering/dp/B006EXZM28/ this seems tempting
<ducasse> i actually looked at one like that in a local shop, but decided i was much too dangerous with a soldering iron.
<ducasse> it's tempting to get one plus another rpi + a ton of interesting components, though.
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> dangerous shops to go by :)
<ducasse> absolutely. i'd like another rpi for experiments, there's just so much they can be used for.
<daftykins> mmm, had fun setting my first one up as the music streamer, i put it on a spare card so i still have the NOOBS card to take a look at
<ducasse> mine is hooked up to the tv, running openelec. decent enough media box, but i'd like something with hevc support.
<daftykins> mmm i sit in #kodi and mostly suffer fools that can't even use their Pis
<daftykins> i run an Amazon FireTV though for mine these days :) retired the intel atom + nvidia ion1 nettop
<ducasse> hehe, i can *vividly* imagine that :) i was looking at the webox core...
<ducasse> whenever i look at amazon.co.uk i get a lot of "this seller doesn't deliver to norway", but when i go through sweden they will deliver there.
<ducasse> odd.
<daftykins> ooh you suffer the same as me, mine often says "does not post to Channel Islands"
<daftykins> which is a very rude move
<ducasse> maybe we're on the "axis of evil".
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we're a funny land, we hold British passports but when we go to England for university we have to pay the same international tuition fees as someone from Asia might
<daftykins> an ex girlfriend was even put in the same accomodation as folks from the far east
<ducasse> britain is weird :) i've always loved it there, though.
<ducasse> i wonder if it's the sellers or amazon, i've ordered plenty from uk companies over the years without any trouble.
<daftykins> yeah i only get it from marketplace sellers, are your postal services perhaps more expensive to cross the border?
<ducasse> our postal service is expensive, period :)
<ducasse> when are you going to the bbq?
<daftykins> i live in the capital these days, my friends parents place is on the central west coast, so i'd cross the island at its' skinny part :>
<ducasse> which island are you on?
<ducasse> (i only remembered it was one of them :)
<daftykins> https://goo.gl/maps/BmrXkcM6VGK2
<daftykins> :D
<ducasse> cool :)
<ducasse> hmmm, seems this thunderstorm is getting closer...
<daftykins> ruh roh!
<ducasse> need to get a ups for the file server at some point.
<daftykins> they're great, small investment but nice to have that peace of mind
<daftykins> i bought a UK plug to UPS adapter a bit ago too, so now i run my router and switch from it as well
<daftykins> quite funny to still be online from my phone or laptop when the island had a power cut the other day
<ducasse> definitely, i have surge protectors on everything and a _very_ good electrical system, but i'd hate for that particular box to suddenly lose power.
<daftykins> i'd like to submit myself for idiot of the day award
<daftykins> assemble the hardware with the lightning fried USB motherboard and attempt to use a USB keyboard to enter the BIOS :D
 * ducasse facepalms
<ducasse> it's embarrasing when things like that happens...
<daftykins> >:D
<daftykins> wow it wants a BIOS update for a core 2 duo
<daftykins> and that's no longer possible because USB!
<ducasse> hmmm. can't you do it from cd/dvd?
<daftykins> i'd probably have to find a utility that works, then cobble together some bootable media to do it
<daftykins> lots of work really
<ducasse> more than it's worth, probably.
<daftykins> yeah
<ducasse> it's fun to fiddle with older hardware, but rarely productive :)
<daftykins> just threw in a spare SSD i put xubuntu on, boots straight in \o/
<ducasse> yay!
<ducasse> why do people paste in the channel when explicitly told to use a pastebin?
<daftykins> well, this thing could still be useful for a secondary file server for someone i know... but not if i have to press F1 to get past this CPU prompt :D
<daftykins> idiots :)
<ducasse> if they don't know what a pastebin is, they can just ask :)
<daftykins> those ones irritate me too, won't even ask about things they don't get
<ducasse> when you're asking for help, you should be asking about things you don't understand, right?
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> i mean i'd expect it from the youngsters...
<ducasse> hope he figures out how to use a pastebin soon, i need to make dinner..
<ducasse> oh god, he has now posted it on a pastebin and asks what i can see *without posting the url* :)
<daftykins> yep you have to guess the paste ID
<daftykins> what do you mean it'll take forever? :D
<ducasse> ok, paste.ubuntu.com/0000001 - nope, that's not it, 0000002, nope...
<daftykins> http://termbin.com/rmz4
<daftykins> :D
<ducasse> :)
<daftykins> this is a good method, i'll install server from another PC then transplant the disk
<ducasse> this guy has a bad apt situation, but i think i'll start meking dinner and hope someone else can help - /me need to feed :)
<\9> it would appear that you can't install in efi mode without an efi partition...
<Bashing-om> That is a fact ^, due to how the firmware looks for the boot code .
<EriC^^> true
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-07-31
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> morning everyone
<\9> morning, yes
<OerHeks> still morning here too.
 * \9 is enjoying the processing power of the end result of his 1000â¬ investment and 15 hours of painstaking building
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<daftykins> \9: wow that's a slow build :)
<daftykins> but slow and steady wins the race!
<\9> daftykins: yeah well, it was the first time I actually built something from nothing but parts, so I wanted to be sure not to break anything
<daftykins> *nod* good on you - get to maximise the fun that way too!
<daftykins> i tend to take it slower than i'm capable of to be sure i don't do anything daft, too
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, i have the idea that skinux knows more than us...
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Maybe so .. The book of what I do not know is much greater than the one that contains what I do know .
<OerHeks> heh, there is an actual  Mark Shuttleworth Street :-D
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> cloud break hard here
<lotuspsychje> rain and thunder
<lotuspsychje> hey xangua
<xangua> Sup
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<oerheks> heya BluesKaj happy monday
<BluesKaj> hi oerheks, happy Monday to you too...doesn't matter much to me anymore
<BluesKaj> <---- retired
<oerheks> <-- unemployed
<BluesKaj> bummer :/
<oerheks> i'd like to lie: yes, sir, i am 17 with 6 years experience
<oerheks> finally, what i have been waiting for .. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/07/bing-wallpaper-changer-gnome-extension
<EriC^^> evening Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: ! What it be ? Hope all is well with you :)
<ducasse> hi all
<Bashing-om> \o ducasse . Goes well with you also ?
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: all is well, about to eat some dinner (order a delivery), what about you?
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Avoiding the heat ourside !
<Bashing-om> Weather:   Conditions 90 F (32 C) - Clear Wind Calm Humidity 62%
<ducasse> Bashing-om: fine here, thanks. hot and humid today.
<Bashing-om>            Pressure 29.96 in (1014 mb) Heat Index 100 F (38 C)
<oerheks> uh oh
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: aha!
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: what was the irxi (?) command to show stuff like that?
<oerheks> cooking eggs on the car-hood
<Bashing-om> ducasse: Great excuse to be on here .. too hot to think outside :)
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: " /exec -o inxi -xxxw " is one way ( how I did ^ ) .
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Not wasting the solar power :)
<dnssoul> hello
<Bashing-om> dnssoul: Hey hey .
<dnssoul> Hi Bashing-Om
<Bashing-om> dnssoul: Done yer mitzba for ubuntu this day ?
<dnssoul> what is a good operating system that seems closed source, and linux, to install on Mac mini ?
<dnssoul> Free though
<Bashing-om> dnssoul: Mutally exclusive : closed source - Free though .
<ducasse> "closed source and linux"?
<oerheks> what mac mini exactly? the oldest ones are good doorstoppers
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-25
<pauljw> Hi everyone
<Bashing-om> \o pauljw - slow on main . Ya not missing a lot :)
<pauljw> o/ hi Bashing-om, everyone.  just checking in :)
<pauljw> early day tomorrow, gnite all
<uiduser> hi
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<uiduser> alreadly afternoon
<uiduser> good afternoon to all
<lotuspsychje> hi uiduser
<uiduser> hi friend
<uiduser> are you ubuntu-developer?
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: no, just a volunteer
<uiduser> what is the volunteer? are you signed in Cannonical?
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: no, volunteers help contribute solving issues in #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> !contribute | uiduser
<ubot5> uiduser: To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://community.ubuntu.com and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: are you looking for a dev, or wanna contribute yourself?
<uiduser> i have some suggestions need to give to them
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: what kind of sugestions?
<uiduser> add an options to turn off guess-session for example
<uiduser> i guess that would be nice to many ordinary user
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: use !bug to insert an idea or something you think is missing
<uiduser> guest wrong spelling just now
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: also ubuntu 17.10 is looking for users help testing on new hardware, and help for the defaults apps
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: and also there are already ways to disable guest account
<uiduser> i may be a volunteer later
<uiduser> after i done my correct mission
<uiduser> yeah i know that command
<uiduser> but i think that's not friendly to many ordinary people
<uiduser> thanks for you help
<lotuspsychje> !bug | uiduser
<ubot5> uiduser: If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please report it using the command Â« ubuntu-bug <package> Â» - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs.
<uiduser> oh i read this page before
<uiduser> it requires me to type many commands
<uiduser> when i look at them i get headache
<lordievader> Good morning
<jink> MÃ´ge.
<uiduser> good afternoon...
<jink> Heh.
<lordievader> Hey jink, uiduser. How are you both?
<jink> Fine, mostly.  Got a bit of a cold. :P
<uiduser> fine thanks
<jink> I'll live, though.
<uiduser> nice to see you again
<lordievader> Anything happening here?
<jink> Nah.
<oerheks> We were waiting for you  ..
<lordievader> Whooo
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<oerheks> Adobe stops with flash, end 2020
<oerheks> \0/ 3 more years
<oerheks> so.. ubuntu 20.10 would be the latest ubuntu with the flashplugininstaller :-D
<oerheks> Adobe - Changing the world through digital experiences, totally true
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Die flash die . Die an ugly death . ( then maybe the other half will return to ubuntu ) .
<BluesKaj> then slow to adopt users will compalin about flash not working :-0
<BluesKaj> complain even
<oerheks> i think beginning 2020 it is dead. too optimistic
<maikeu> lxd irc
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-26
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> \o lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> 3 days off here
<lotuspsychje> you doing well Bashing-om ?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: catch-up time for Lotus-Computers :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: 10th invoice comming up :p
<lotuspsychje> samsung galaxy a3
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Way to go ! Sone be 100 :P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> lets hope
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: ubuntu machines, have yet to come
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: the ubports guys doing a great job already
<lotuspsychje> so perhaps phone/tablets in the future
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Let's hope you sell as quick as you can build .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i can
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: ive chosen some quick resellers, order today, deliver tomorrow
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: My Daddy told me; buy something, do not hold it long - sell for more than you paid for it ... make money :)
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: thats the idea :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: in intrepeneur class they told me also, dont build up a stock..thats sleeping money..order when someone needs it
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Uh huh .. supply the demand - happy customers keep comming back and tell others .
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Me eyes be crossing .. need to cease and desist . Let you handle the light work in main :)
<lotuspsychje> nitenite my friend
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great lordievader and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here, bit tired.
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: sold this one last for a customer: http://www.lotuscomputers.be/index.php?route=product/product&path=62&product_id=72
<lordievader> Ah you are doing smartphones too?
<lordievader> Small nitpick issue, wouldn't you put the euro sign in front?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: i can ask my admin, but i would guess this is builtin opencart already
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: i will sell everything a user asks, except a machine with windows
<lordievader> Not even dual-boots :P
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: im also waiting the ubports guys development for smartphones/tablets
<lordievader> Ubports?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: mariogrip with his ubuntu-touch ports: #ubports
<lordievader> Ah, never looked much into that.
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: their new site is pretty nice: ubports.com
<lotuspsychje> they got a telegram group to communicate
<jink> "Herbron" is dat een woord?  Of is dat een Belgisch grapje?
<lotuspsychje> jink: aka: resource
<lordievader> jink: I was wondering that too...
<jink> Sure, I get what it says, but I've never heard it before.
<lordievader> Honestly don't think it is in a dutch dictionary.
<lotuspsychje> it surely does
<lotuspsychje> http://www.vlaamswoordenboek.be/definities/toon/12766
<jink> http://vandale.nl/opzoeken?pattern=herbronnen&lang=nn
<jink> Rare Belgen. :')
<lordievader> I was about the link to that, jink ;)
<lordievader> Still, my statement hold :P It is not in 'dutch' dictionary.
<lotuspsychje> the word is used all over the net
<jink> http://www.vandale.nl/frikadel-of-frikandel
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> jink: to start a business, everyone can choose a name of choice
<lotuspsychje> once we had a guy at our door selling police-magazine
<lotuspsychje> so we called the police, and they said in belgium everyone can choose a business name of choice, as long its not 'police'
<jink> lotuspsychje: :D
<jink> Same here, really.  You can go to the Kamer van Koophandel and register a name, and someone will tell you if you can use it.
<lotuspsychje> exactly
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lotuspsychje> great, 3 days off
<lotuspsychje> sunny today, not too heat
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: got a samsung a3 galaxy delivered for a customer :p
<lotuspsychje> pretty neat device
<EriC^^> nice
<lotuspsychje> tweaked it a bit, installed apps
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: that has android 6 and has nice clean and nice improvements also
<lotuspsychje> settings all nice in categories n such
<EriC^^> hmm nice
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: you got a smartphone?
<EriC^^> yeah
<lotuspsychje> wich one?
<EriC^^> it's a samsung j1 ace
<lotuspsychje> cool
<EriC^^> i didnt like it much, i got it as a temporary replacement til the one i want comes out
<EriC^^> my older phone's battery was.. inflating :D
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: wich one are you after?
<EriC^^> waiting for the iphone 8, it should come out around sept
<lotuspsychje> cool
<EriC^^> it'll be 10th anniversary of the iphone, so it should be great
<EriC^^> iphone 7 barely had any new features, they practically just removed the headphone jack and offered in black
<lotuspsychje> gonna be pricey right 8?
<EriC^^> yeah, they say it will have an oled screen, and for 3d touch to work with that it requires more $$
<EriC^^> so it's going to be more than the usual price of release
<EriC^^> which phone do you have/like?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: im still on BQ 4.5
<EriC^^> samsung?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: and im waiting for ubports guys to delevop
<lotuspsychje> no BQ aquarius, the ubuntu touch phone
<EriC^^> oh nice
<EriC^^> how do you like it?
<lotuspsychje> i hear they ported 16.04 to nexus5
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: well canonical has dropped support, so ill install the ubports image soon
<lotuspsychje> i like it very well, use as daily driver
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> but the lack of apps is bit frustrating
<EriC^^> brb
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<oerheks> heya BluesKaj :-D
<BluesKaj> hi oerheks :-)
<oerheks> just looking for the best ads-block-tool for chrome
<oerheks> adblock is not that good
<BluesKaj> oerheks, this one works nicely https://www.standsapp.org/?utm_source=AppWindow
<BluesKaj> I also use HTTPSeverywhere
<oerheks> lookin'
<BluesKaj> HTTPSeverywhere slows my chrome down a bit at first startup, but you may not notice on your, because my pc is rather old and a bit slow
<BluesKaj> yours
<lordievader> Never noticed any major slow downs with it.
<ducasse> oerheks: still looking for adblocker? i use ublock origin, works well for me.
<oerheks> tried a few, and i fall back to adblcok
<oerheks> lolz, server 5.04 ...
 * oerheks votes those old server-owners should be fined, $20.000
<nacc> heh
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-27
<Bashing-om> !ubuwin
<ubot5> Canonical and Microsoft have announced that Windows 10 will be able to run Ubuntu programs without needing porting/recompilation. This functionality is still in beta and is not supported in #ubuntu. For discussion and support, see #ubuntu-on-windows.
<Bashing-om> donofrio: This might be better addressed in the #ubuntu-on-windows channel ?
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> great here tnx!
<lotuspsychje> grabbin a train again lordievader ?
<lordievader> Nope
<lordievader> @work
<lordievader> Took my mechanical keyboard with me :D
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lordievader> Sell anything nice yesterday?
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: no :p today delivery of the galaxy a3
<lordievader> Ah, good to hear :)
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: android 6 has improved alot im happy
<lordievader> 6? Nougat (7) is current :P
<lotuspsychje> depends wich device you buy no?
<lordievader> Nah, depends on how up to date the vendor is.
<lordievader> Most vendors don't care about the major versions.
<lotuspsychje> right
<lordievader> It does depend a little on the device though, since the drivers need to be available.
<lordievader> That is something Apple made easy for themselves, have ~one hardware version.
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: gonna buy iphone8 too lol?
<lordievader> Haha, there is another one?
<lordievader> No. :P
<lordievader> You?
<lotuspsychje> no no im sticking to my bq 4.5
<lotuspsychje> i dont wanna pay like 1100$ for a phone
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<oerheks> ah, CIA project 'Imperial' .. https://wikileaks.org/vault7/#Imperial  old stuff, wikileaks has become a comicbook
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-28
<uiduser> hi
<Bashing-om> uiduser: Welocme to #ubuntu-discuss :) What is on your mind ?
 * oerheks is staring @ friday
<Bashing-om> oerheks: 22:42 and counting - Friday soon enough :)
<oerheks> 05:43 ..
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Wow . Do you ever sleep ?
<oerheks> ... maybe in the winter :-D
<Bashing-om> oerheks: I believe it . Mid summer here and hot and humid :(
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<oerheks> heya lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: \o . He do coffee on a beautiful Friday morning :)
<lotuspsychje> hey hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Good day in the neighborhood :D
<lotuspsychje> going out with train today
<lotuspsychje> nearby city shopping
<oerheks> oh boy, spending pocketmoney?
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: not yet a rich man with my biz mate :p
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: but yes, our plastic lil friend will come too
<oerheks> oh man, this world gets weirder and weirder.. plastic friends
<oerheks> 'mini-me' Scaramucci sounds like a james bond villain
<uiduser> 12:03
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: lunch?
<uiduser> not yet
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: 6h05 here
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: aka= visa :p
<uiduser> xD
<uiduser> anyone watched The Life
<lotuspsychje> not yet
<lotuspsychje> got busy enough with my own life
<Bashing-om> uiduser: We got 'buntu - who needs TV ?
<uiduser> all right....
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: perhaps the #ubuntu-offtopic guys might have seen something?
<lotuspsychje> uiduser: here in discuss we are lil more stubborn and addicted to ubuntu
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: addicted or just plain geeked out ?
<lotuspsychje> both :p
<Bashing-om> Admittedly, any day I do not get my fix ... is a real bad day :)
<uiduser> lotuspsychje: ok
<uiduser> i was watch tv just now
<uiduser> may i ask you guys a question?
<uiduser> how to add a resolution?
<uiduser> guys how to add a resolution
<lotuspsychje> !xrandr | uiduser
<ubot5> uiduser: XRandR 1.2 is the new method of running dual screens in !X.  Information/HowTo here: http://wiki.debian.org/XStrikeForce/HowToRandR12
<uiduser> ubot5: is xrandr 1.2 embedded in Ubuntu?
<ubot5> uiduser: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<uiduser> ,,,,
<uiduser> lotuspsychje: is xrandr 1.2 embedded in Ubuntu?
<uiduser> i can't add resolution
<EriC^^> morning all
<lordievader> Good morning
<EriC^^> hey lordievader , how are you?
<lordievader> Doing good here, found a tiling plugin for kwin \o/
<EriC^^> cool
<lordievader> Yes, unfortunately it doesn't seem to work :( (for me that is)
<uiduser> hi
<uiduser> how to sniff wifi package?
<lordievader> uiduser: What?
<lordievader> You mean packets?
<lordievader> If so, get a card wich supports monitor mode and hand it to wireshark.
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<EriC^^> evening Bashing-om :D
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Good day to you also :) Slow Friday all over .
<EriC^^> yup
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Raining here so I get to spend extra time here on irc :P Life is good .
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: :)
<ducasse> \o Bashing-om EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey ducasse o/
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Rare to get a rain here in July and August . Nice ! And cools things down too !
<Bashing-om> ducasse: \o up and doing ? up to real good ?
<ducasse> Bashing-om: not doing much, just finished dinner. hoping for a bit of long-promised rain here.
<Bashing-om> ducasse: May it happen :) . My day here is started - see what I can learn .
<ducasse> Bashing-om: i'm thinking of retreating into the shade outside with a book and large amount of some cold liquid - too hot to think elsewhere :)
<daftykins> hey folks \o
<Bashing-om> ducasse: hammocks are a good thing ! .. Naps too work wonders IMHO :P
<ducasse> \o daftykins
<Bashing-om> daftykins: ! \o . Too long time no read .
<daftykins> :D it has been a while! i had a few days on the smaller island of Sark up until yesterday
<Bashing-om> daftykins: man goes where duty calls ?
<daftykins> hehe nah just a holiday
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/EFzHygm.jpg - check out the view
<daftykins> Guernsey, my home, is the one in the distance :)
<lotus|artfulbox> good evening to all
<lotus|artfulbox> updating 17.10 box
<daftykins> hey hey :)
<daftykins> what's new in lotus land?
<lotus|artfulbox> hey dafty!
<daftykins> and everyone's land for that matter
<lotus|artfulbox> great daftykins tnx and you?
<ducasse> hi lotus|artfulbox
<lotus|artfulbox> hey ducasse :p
<daftykins> yeah not too bad here :D
<EriC^^> guy's i'm making a youtube service kind of thing
<EriC^^> http://youtubextras.com
<lotus|artfulbox> whats it about EriC^^ ?
<EriC^^> well, it's to download all the comments in case a person is looking for something specific, like you watched a video and there's the name of the song, or some other specific info
<EriC^^> so you change the name of the link at the top, and it loads the page with all comments, then you can use ctrl+f to get what you need instead of pressing show more a lot til you find what you wanted to know
<EriC^^> also i want to add a "usefulness" button next to the comment, so if somebody finds it useful he can tag it, and useful comments go up to the top right in a box, so others can easily see them and also maybe learn something new about the video or something
<lotus|artfulbox> nice feature EriC^^
<lotus|artfulbox> lotuspsychje@artful-bugbox:~$ uname -a
<lotus|artfulbox> Linux artful-bugbox 4.11.0-10-generic #15-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jun 29 15:03:41 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> bugbox xD
<lotus|artfulbox> didnt find alot this time
<daftykins> you need some modern kit to find all the problems :D
<lotus|artfulbox> lol
<lotus|artfulbox> like a squoo.sh?
<daftykins> \o/
<lotus|artfulbox> grrr that gnome activities button...
<Bashing-om> Nap time ! Back later guys .
<lotus|artfulbox> nap nap
<daftykins> hopefully not a QNAP :) those things had a nasty RAID rebuild bug
<lotus|artfulbox> laterz guys, another artful bug solved by "oerheks"
<lotus|artfulbox> :p
<oerheks> "watch your language" lolz
<oerheks> System Settings > Language Support, re-apply system-wide, and reboot. Now the new app store actually functions.
<Bashing-om> Back from my nap . All refreshed - and find that main has died :(
<daftykins> :(
<Bashing-om> Oh Well, It will pick up :)
<nacc> in case y'all haven't seen it -- this is the tooling my coworkers and I have been working on (first blog post in a long series we are writing now): https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/07/24/developing-ubuntu-using-git/
<oerheks> ah good news nacc
<oerheks> just reading about hiri, outlook/calender package https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/07/18/hiri-the-desktop-snap-that-lets-you-use-microsoft-exchange-on-linux/
<nacc> oerheks: interesting!
<oerheks> yeah, as a snap.
<Bashing-om> nacc: Lofty goals .. and well written intro !
<nacc> Bashing-om: i didn't write that one :) but yeah ... we've got buy in from lots of teams recently (was at a canonical sprint last week) -- desktop, foundations, etc. are all interested and engaged now, at least
<Bashing-om> nacc: has my interest . Just my skill level may preclude any participation :(
<nacc> Bashing-om: even just using it (when someone asks about some code thing) is a huge help
<nacc> Bashing-om: i'm working on post 2 right now, which should help most folks get started
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-29
<Bashing-om> nacc: Will devote some time to this !
<nacc> Bashing-om: thanks! it's hopefully going to be a way for more people to contribute back to ubuntu easily. Just a `git ubuntu clone; <make and commit some changes>; git ubuntu submit`
<nacc> (well, `git ubuntu clone <srcpkg>; cd <srcpkg>` instead of just `git ubuntu clone`)
<nacc> and we'll integrate things like build this in a PPA for easy testing, or run the DEP8 tests locally
<Bashing-om> nacc: Great . I like a centralized location for ALL packing ! Many times https://packages.ubuntu.com/ leaves a lot to be desired .
<nacc> Bashing-om: absolutely
<Bashing-om> nacc: Marked, and will see what i can do to get started . Ya poped up at a great time as I was looking for another project .
<BluesKaj> 'Morning folks
<oerheks>  150,981 lines of code added this past quarter to Mesa 17.2 http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mesa-17.2-Code-Size
<oerheks> en ubu-win out of beta :-D
<oerheks> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/07/28/windows-subsystem-for-linux-out-of-beta/
<oerheks> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey oerheks
<oerheks> Google Earth Free is EOL \0/ ... you will be upgraded to Google Earth *Pro* 7.3.0 for Mac, Windows and Linux
<oerheks> finally html5 works
<BluesKaj> google maps works
<immu> what prevented html5 from working?
<BluesKaj> when a website doesn't use it
<BluesKaj> some are still sticking with flash
<immu> flash has being given cease and desist letter
<BluesKaj> adobe isn't going to support it past 2020
<oerheks> hi immu
<oerheks> just found out google earth free is eol, and we all get pro, with html5/video and such
 * oerheks is updating the 19 places he has livedon the maps
<immu> hi oerheks
<immu> cool
<BluesKaj> well that's kinda cool for sure
<immu> nice
<daftykins> google earth is just in chrome now
<daftykins> for Windows :>
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@RooTBooK:~$ sudo snap install magic-device-tool
<lotuspsychje> magic-device-tool 1.0 from 'marius-quabeck' installed
<oerheks> ah, supports apple tooo?
<oerheks> hmm no
<ducasse> as there are no alternative operating systems for apple devices, that's not very surprising
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-07-30
<Apaullo> anyone know the difference between the snaps for telegram-latest and telegram-sergeiusens?
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<Bashing-om> We do Sunday support :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-23
<lotuspsychje> morning guys
<sonicwind> evening :-)
<lotuspsychje> hey there sonicwind
<lotuspsychje> 3 days remaining :p
<hggdh> I am confused by the issue with System76, pop-os, and gnome.
<hggdh> but ah well. Better get to bed and sleep, perchance to dream
<lotuspsychje> clean install bionic hggdh :p
<ducasse> good morning
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<BluesKaj> Hey JimBuntu, what's up today ?
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, nothing much that is new, mainly more of the same... work work work, lol. How are you?
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, I'm ok, just having morning coffee as usual, nothing much new here either
<BluesKaj> some relief from the heat at least
<JimBuntu> Same here, heat spell was broken by rain over the weekend... finally, lol.
<BluesKaj> yup, welcome rain, we have quite s few forest fires up here that are out of control ...can smell the smoke here
<jink> I'm still waiting for that.  Seems like it's going to get warmer, first.
<JimBuntu> yikes BluesKaj , stay safe... watch out for herds of running reindeer
<BluesKaj> yeah, we're not quite that far north :-)
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, we're 160 miles east of the Michigan UP
<oerheks> hey gus, please buy libreooffice..  trololol https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/libreoffice/9pnf0nvbn59f
<oerheks> "free trial"
<blackflow> "Free trial is unlimited and has all the features. Buying it supports us."  tho :)
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> that is why i liked darktable, long time no windows port
<blackflow> seems valid. the upcoming generation of users will mostly know app stores and buying libreoffice won't be a problem for them.
<oerheks> Yes, legally they can do that, but really..
<JimBuntu> LibreOffice available for purchase from the Microsoft store... seems weird to me.
<blackflow> "apt what?! show me in the app stor, where do I tap!"
<oerheks> mouse heroes
<JimBuntu> I don't seem to be able to view the system requirements
<JimBuntu> "Windows 10 version 14393.0 or higher" == I'm a sad panda as I don't have Windows 10
<oerheks> me too :-(
<oerheks> ... wait, i am not one of them
<aldo_> hallo
<oerheks> HTTPS by default D-Day is tomorrow 24th ... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/23/https_dday_google_chrome/
<pragmaticenigma> Such a misleading article
<pragmaticenigma> and FUD
<oerheks> hmm with next version 68, not really fud
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks: The whole, everything must be https is FUD... Google isn't helping. Also, from what I can see, they are changing the URL bar and instead of the Green "secured", the are now instead displaying "Not Secured" in the address bar, but ONLY when the site has an HTTPS version available
<pragmaticenigma> There is no alert window, no prompts, just a small GUI change that adds the "NOT Secured" status to the address bar. Again, only when no Https alternative exists
<pauljw> hi everyone
<Bashing-om> Hey pauljw - Merry Monday Morning to ya :)
<pauljw> hey Bashing-om, thx.  Having a good day?
<Bashing-om> So far verry good - prolonging taking a nap as I had to arise toooo early this AM .
<pauljw> :D
<oerheks> nom nom, connect your android to linux .. https://blog.trendmicro.com/trendlabs-security-intelligence/open-adb-ports-being-exploited-to-spread-possible-satori-variant-in-android-devices/
<Bashing-om> Anddd UWN537 is out :))
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-24
<blackflow> oerheks: looks like that LibreOffice app was faek?   https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/unknown-dev-brings-libreoffice-to-windows-10-via-the-microsoft-store/
<oerheks> maybe not fake, it is a question is it legal?
<blackflow> well fake as in not from The Document Foundation
<sonicwind> saw that today... wild
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> Morn'n lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om can you warm yourself a bit?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yeah - I can warm up .. just go push on the lawn mower :P
<sonicwind> good evening :-)
<lotuspsychje> hey sonicwind
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: belgium measured 44c on some places yesterday
<lotuspsychje> was freaky hot
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Unreal how hot it has become in places .. It is actually killing people .
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> silent coffee mmm
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: As slow here - I wander off to other intelectual persuits . I return to check on the state of the afairs :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<Bashing-om> Then, lotuspsychje , I mostly wander back off :(
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> good noon to all
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<JimBuntu> Hiya BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu, I was just informed of this, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/392/builds
<JimBuntu> ooooh. updates
<oerheks> hi lovely people
<BluesKaj> looks like LTS point release is available
<JimBuntu> ugh BluesKaj ... there is already a bug reported/triaged
<BluesKaj> heh, yeah, no doubt
<JimBuntu> Happy 10th birthday USB 3.0
<BluesKaj> had some really loud t--storms here last night...had a hard time getting back to sleep at 4AM
<BluesKaj> hey oerheks ...don't think i qualify as "lovely" tho :-)
<BluesKaj> bbl, gonna check my Bionic point release upgrade
<JimBuntu> Happy testing
<BluesKaj> yup, already got it..lsb_release -a gives 18.04.1
<BluesKaj> this pc is awfully fast, booting between OSs, thanks to my son's gift of the MSIZ370 motherboard and i5 cpu wih 16GB RAM
<BluesKaj> I prefer to dual boot vs VMs ...never had much luck with VMs, always something that didn't work , usually networking or media playback
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj oerheks
<BluesKaj> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: did you get .1 window already?
<BluesKaj> yes
<lotuspsychje> cool 2 days earl
<BluesKaj> just upgraded as usual
<lotuspsychje> neat
<BluesKaj> no fuss no muss
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: so bionic kde right on your new machine?
<BluesKaj> yup
<lotuspsychje> feel free to share us desktop screenie :p
<lotuspsychje> or didnt it change much
<BluesKaj> no change at all
<lotuspsychje> kk
<BluesKaj> I kept Bionic quite up to date every morning
<lotuspsychje> i always liked msi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> yeah, it's my first MSI ,and I like the legacy BIOS option on it since I don't need over 4 primary partitions or gpt table
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> Description:	Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS
<lotuspsychje> there, same story :p
<BluesKaj> right :-)
<BluesKaj> painless
<lotuspsychje> im curious if xenial users are getting the window yet BluesKaj
<oerheks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey wb oerheks
<BluesKaj> xenial?
<lotuspsychje> yeah ltsupgrade
<BluesKaj> oh 16,04
<lotuspsychje> they said 26 of july
<BluesKaj> yes , I saw that, but I guess they're getting us early adopters to be the guinea pigs :-)
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<BluesKaj> to detect the bugs early before official point release
<lotuspsychje> nice move
<lotuspsychje> !version
<ubot5> To find out what version of Ubuntu you have, type Â« lsb_release -a Â» in a !shell - To know the available version of a package, Â« apt-cache policy <package> Â»
<lotuspsychje> hmm never saw this1
<lotuspsychje> !lxer 4
<lotuspsychje> they looking for contributors too https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-contributors-to-the-ubuntu-weekly-newsletter/1539
<nicomachus> how do I keep forgetting the LTS release date? I thought it was like the 20th or 21st
<blackflow> if only there was a search engine where you could look it up.
<nicomachus> IRC is my favorite search engine
<blackflow> nicomachus: you just have it set up the way you want, right?
<nicomachus> blackflow: exactly
<nicomachus> but also the only dates I can find searching is the April release.
<blackflow> nicomachus: was in reference to this:  https://xkcd.com/1782/     :)
<nicomachus> nvm I see it.
<nicomachus> blackflow: and I know.
<nicomachus> July 26th.
<blackflow> two days. But, I'm already on it.
<nicomachus> well congrats.
<blackflow> nicomachus: I mean there was just an update for bionic, and voila! lsb_release says its 18.04.1
<lotuspsychje> yep same here
<oerheks> oh, me too
<oerheks> surprise
<nacc> 18.04.1 should be slightly ahead of 16.04.5
<nacc> (that's normal)
<nacc> i believe that specific change is from base-files
<lotuspsychje> yeah see that passby
<lotuspsychje> nacc: xenial users will get upgrade window thursday?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: i believe so, yeah
<lotuspsychje> ok lets bring on the storm :p
<nacc> i mean, 18.04.1 isn't really anything other than a point in time
<nacc> at which point they can pin the 16.04.5 kernel, etc. and spin those ISOs, I think
<lotuspsychje> yeah we received alot of updates the last weeks
<oerheks> no torrent yet http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
<lotuspsychje> thursday it is :p
<lotuspsychje> !info flatpak
<ubot5> flatpak (source: flatpak): Application deployment framework for desktop apps. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.11.7-0ubuntu0.1 (bionic), package size 624 kB, installed size 3206 kB
<nacc> !info flatpak xenial
<ubot5> Package flatpak does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> nacc: lol hows that possible, their repos got lower version?
<nacc> lotuspsychje: are they on 18.04?
<lotuspsychje> ah hes on xenial
<oerheks> pici is so fast :-D
<lotuspsychje> :p
<tomreyn> i wonder how they made it on googleusercontent.com, and on one which doesn't respond to http(s) requests
<oerheks> spoofing?
<tomreyn> maybe, or it's actually GCE and the name is just misleading me
<oerheks> downside of our low level entry, oh .. i forgot to continue to join the application for ops
<hggdh> there will be more
<hggdh> (I mean trolls like this one)
<hggdh> and, anyways, drone` now is on it
<oerheks> :-)
<tomreyn> there's https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19408818/what-are-the-ip-ranges-for-gce-zones in case it gets much worse
<oerheks> oh man, teamviewer, we warn about this .. https://community.teamviewer.com/t5/Announcements/Reassignment-of-unique-IDs/m-p/39067
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: vnc2 :p
<lotuspsychje> hammered 24/7
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: is your op request started mate?
<lotuspsychje> and you oerheks ?
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: i didnt file one, too much paper work
<lotuspsychje> oh, didnt know it was complicated
<lotuspsychje> evening pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> howdy
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: update to .1 yet?
<pragmaticenigma> I imagine it happened at some point... I just install updates when available
<lotuspsychje> good good :p
<pragmaticenigma> wouldn't know what update would have been the "i'm going to .1"
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: nacc told us base files or so
<nacc> afaik, yeah, it's an lsb file
<hggdh> AFAICR, base-files
<hggdh> or both?
<hggdh> it is also on /etc/lsb-release
<nacc> hggdh: yeah, sorry, i meant that /etc/lsb-release is in base-fiules
<nacc> *base-files
<hggdh> k
<blackflow> The antivirus! The antivirus is vulnerable! The doctors are sick! Run!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<blackflow> (USN-3722-1)   :)
 * lotuspsychje quickly sudo apt purge clamav
<lotuspsychje> and all false positives :p
<tomreyn> it's hardly maintained upstream nowadays, just a by-product to get new paying customers.
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: remember my bug you wished for me about kernel cleanup?
<hggdh> yes?
<lotuspsychje> they removed it and fixxed, now unattended-upgrades got auto cleanup
<hggdh> finally :-)
<nicomachus> just got clamav updates...
<lotuspsychje> last 3 or so
<nicomachus> all clamav packages. is that a fix or should I still purge?
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: no the purge was a joke sorry :p
<nicomachus> oh.
 * nicomachus goes back to work.
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: the virus database was pretty up to date when i checked last time
<tomreyn> okay, they actually did new releases this year, so i take this back
<lotuspsychje> i never actually found any virus ever with it :p
<tomreyn> there's been a 1.5y release gap between 2016 and 2018
<lotuspsychje> !info clamav bionic
<ubot5> clamav (source: clamav): anti-virus utility for Unix - command-line interface. In component main, is optional. Version 0.99.4+addedllvm-0ubuntu1 (bionic), package size 107 kB, installed size 796 kB
<daftykins> maybe it's snake oil! :D
<lotuspsychje> !info clamav cosmic
<ubot5> clamav (source: clamav): anti-virus utility for Unix - command-line interface. In component main, is optional. Version 0.100.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1 (cosmic), package size 111 kB, installed size 629 kB
<lotuspsychje> good good
<tomreyn> https://clamav.org/
<tomreyn> i mean https://clamav.net/
<tomreyn> "The certificate expired on October 23, 2013, 1:59:59 AM GMT+2. The current time is July 24, 2018, 9:59 PM."
<lotuspsychje> oO
<tomreyn> and while www.clamav.net is served via cloudflare, clamav.net is not. standard beginner mistake.
<lotuspsychje> i found lynis pretty neat scanning
<pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: are you sure both domains are under the ownership of the same individual/organization?
<tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: ignore .org, i meant .net, with and without www.
<pragmaticenigma> I get a redirect from clamav.net to www.clamav.net
<tomreyn> on http, yes, not so un https, unless your web browser doesn't validate SSL
<pragmaticenigma> the http is intermittent
<pragmaticenigma> got it work once... lots of timeouts
<pragmaticenigma> I agree that the primary domain should be secured ... but overall if this is a google chrome flagging "not secure" topic... I have my own thoughts about how silly and full of FUD it is
<tomreyn> an SSL certificate on a public website expired for 5 years is FUD?
<pragmaticenigma> no
<pragmaticenigma> Everyone is losing their heads over Chrome now flagging sites as "Not Secure" when the site is served via HTTP instead of HTTPS
<tomreyn> okay, i understand how some consider it offensive that google (and i think mozilla, too) are pushing for requiring https.
<lotuspsychje> hmm i have a flashback
<lotuspsychje> didnt we do this topic yet before?
<pragmaticenigma> and many time to come lotuspsychje
<tomreyn> not with me, i think. must have been mr robot.
<lotuspsychje> think it started on ubuntu wikis http or https
<lotuspsychje> lol tomreyn
<daftykins> i don't think there's any excuse not to be https now, any site i host for someone i make https capable
<daftykins> especially if it takes a customer's data input on say, a contact form
<tomreyn> or... a shop (not looking at anyone here...)
<daftykins> ;D
<pragmaticenigma> I feel if there is an exchange of PID or PII.. yes... then https should be a requirement. but for purely informational or entertaining websites, I feel it's overkill
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: shop is secured from inside :p
<tomreyn> :)
<lotuspsychje> not sure how my admin said it though..
<pragmaticenigma> sounds like you might want to follow up to be sure
<lotuspsychje> yeah im on it pragmaticenigma
<daftykins> i for one hope that lotus' company does not deal in Pretty Ill-tempered Iguanas
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> ok ttyl guys
<lotuspsychje> have a nice evening
<pragmaticenigma> or compete with Polaris Industries Inc
<ducasse> ttyl lotuspsychje
<daftykins> \o
<lotuspsychje> laterz ;)
<pragmaticenigma> im out too
<sonicwind> good afternoon, folkls
<sonicwind> folks
<sonicwind> folkls too
<oerheks> hi sonic
<sonicwind> hi oerheks
<nacc> i guess we have a very slow spam attack today :)
<oerheks> yeah,he is runing from hotspot to hotspot
<hggdh> probably one one person doing it
<nacc> yep, that's my guess too :)
<hggdh> so it is an eon-long DDoS
<nacc> lol
<nacc> there are so many better things i could find to do with my time, including totally wasteful things like watching tv
<nacc> just don't get it, myself :)
<oerheks> lonely people ..
<hggdh> neither do I. But human stupidity knowns no bounds
<oerheks> terrible .. hi phunyguy
<nacc> hggdh: +1
<nacc> lol
<nacc> they really aren't trying very hard
<oerheks> asking help with commercial games, ancient games..
<oerheks> oh, that spammer
<nacc> oerheks: both :)
<oerheks> flash is dead .. hurray
<Tegu> better archive flash art well
<oerheks> time for +r ?
<oerheks> that will force qwebirc dudes to register too :-D
<hggdh> not counting the idiot in Brazil that made a video where he says #freenode is the channel for the leet
<oerheks> i am planning to make a video too :-D
<oerheks> rebuilding my cargobike, that is
<hggdh> and... while chatting on a massive change in ciphers at work, my colleague proposed a t-shirt saying (two lines):
<hggdh> echo $DEITY
<hggdh> ** dangit **
<hggdh> I am thinking seriously of getting a t-shirt like that
<hggdh> I will probably get it done as
<hggdh> $ echo $DEITY
<hggdh> $
<hggdh> dangit!
<oerheks> what should that do ?
<hggdh> nothing apart from making me happier :-)
<oerheks> "enter any 11-digit prime number to kiss me"
<hggdh> another good one :-)
<oerheks> my chihuahua gets more attention than me... karma?
<nacc> done for the night, have a good evening all!
<oerheks> nn nacc
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-25
<sonicwind> I'm reading about usb-c and Thunderbolt 3... very confused, but wondering if Ubuntu supports these yet?
<oerheks> sonicwind, i believe so, maybe not hot pluggable..
<sonicwind> thanks
<oerheks> chrome 68 is out, the http issues will appear
<sonicwind> I don't use chrome :-)
<oerheks> hmmm the 1st page i try, works fine > http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
<oerheks> :-D
<hggdh> some people do not, really, want to be helped
<leftyfb> :)
<leftyfb> isn't his first time
<leftyfb> "Yeah, it doesn't show the date in a logical format"   love the personal "facts"
<Unicorn_Princess> test
<Unicorn_Princess> Sorry about that. Anyway, just popped in her to mention that the software update for ubuntu 18.04 LTS opened a window asking me to choose a method for toggling between national and Latin mode. And before that, it asked me to choose what to do about a 20auto-update file, that was supposedly altered on my machine. these are really weird questions for what is normally an uneventful process. there should
<Unicorn_Princess> probably be some extra text explaining why they're there
<Unicorn_Princess> (for the record, I never manually altered the 20auto-update file that's somewhere in /usr/ or something, but I think I did change the auto-update settings in software center maybe)
<Unicorn_Princess> laters
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> !info base-files
<ubot5> base-files (source: base-files): Debian base system miscellaneous files. In component main, is required. Version 10.1ubuntu2.1 (bionic), package size 56 kB, installed size 375 kB
<lotuspsychje> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/392/builds
 * lotuspsychje purges some packages
<tsimonq2> "Teach your cat how to use a USB stick." -Adam Conrad
<tsimonq2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-July/004529.html
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i know a few guys with cats...:p
<tsimonq2> doeeeet
<Olivier[m]> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hi Olivier[m]
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2 needs luna ducasse lol
<lotuspsychje> guiverc: think we have a few same comedians again in main
<guiverc> is that vogan poetry ??  (hhgttg)
<guiverc> s/vogan/vogon  (been a long time since i read the book..)
<ducasse> it's some moron who thinks he's a genius because he wrote a chatbot
<Olivier[m]> ð
<Olivier[m]> How are you all?
<blackflow> Okay, how the hell does this thing work. How does clock sources work in VMs. I've turned off all ntp/timesync in a VM to see if kvm-clock sourced from the host would be enough. The host (is a host, of course, of course) has ntp active.
<blackflow> Turns out.... the VM has been SHUT OFF for a few days.... Turns out, time's off. what the f. it's been off. what fell out of sync if the VM was off.
<blackflow> timedatectl shows "RTC time" one second ahead of universal/local. so.... what was tracking universal/local, while the VM was off, that it drifted for one whole second.
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: can this help in any way? https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/83934/how-do-i-prevent-time-drift-in-a-debian-guest-on-a-centos-kvm-host
<blackflow> lotuspsychje: not quite. I know how that part works. That's why I'm totally failing to understand how can a VM that has been shut off for days, drift at all. The VM wasn't running, there's no memory location kept for its virtualized clock. The host has been rebooted several times since.
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: last answer say heavy cpu can make it drift too
<oerheks> time for +R
<blackflow> lotuspsychje: but _what_ drifts if the VM was off? :)
<lotuspsychje> blackflow: how about this: https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/avoiding-clock-drift-vms
<lotuspsychje> not sure how offline happens..
<lotuspsychje> bad sync maybe?
<lotuspsychje> it cant work if its off right
<blackflow> precisely, and time on the host is correct.
<lotuspsychje> ##networking might know this one
<blackflow> Oh I think I know what it is, and I have to research this further to confirm. The system clock on the host is NOT synced back to hardware until reboot. VMs get time from hardware for their own system clock. host's system clock might be correct because it's syncing via ntp, but that doesn't update hardware and thus VMs don't have the corrections.
<lotuspsychje> that sounds logical
<blackflow> If so.... incredibly stupid and someone should be fired for that desing. Hell, no, sent to quartz mines for the rest of their lives.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<blackflow> and you know who taht is? I'm using systemd-timesyncd on the host.......  :)))
<lotuspsychje> :p
<blackflow> gonna go back to openntpd for a while, see how that works.
<lotuspsychje> bbl smoked salmon salad a la lotus
<blackflow> YUMMY
<lotuspsychje> :p
<jink> :D
<blackflow> okay assumptions half-confirmed. restarting timesyncd on the host automagically corrected the time in the VM.
<blackflow> hrm.... no, not openntpd. chrony. openntpd on linux doesn't do constraints apparently. so no advantage there.
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<daftykins> heya \o
<daftykins> just sitting down to call it lunch :D
<oerheks> BluesKaj, \0/
<oerheks> do you have a rolling board ? https://imgur.com/gallery/ApHeDbb
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins, just having mornng coffee here, looks like a gorgeous day here
<oerheks> * shorts optional
<BluesKaj> hey oerheks
<BluesKaj> heh,neat idea
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> about to be some 33 deg C heat tomorrow and no AC in this place, so i'm going to escape south to visit a friend and his wife
<BluesKaj> good move :-)
<BluesKaj> our house became practically unbearable in the heat waves that started 10 yrs ago here, so we installed an AC unit...works quite well. It makes our living space much more comfortable.
<daftykins> mmm i'd love one, though normally it's only a few days a year that are only slightly challenging - and the ground floor is fine due to having several feet thick granite walls
<BluesKaj> right
<blackflow> JimBuntu: Found this, but I can't find a source on the DNS and bit flips ....  https://www.geek.com/chips/googles-most-efficient-data-center-runs-at-95-degrees-1478473/
<JimBuntu> blackflow, I should be able to find an article or two. There was at least one group who exploited this by buying up domain names that were 1 bit different from their popular counterparts.
<blackflow> ohlol
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> 34c today here
<pauljw> hi everyone
<oerheks> hi pauljw , any hot news?
 * oerheks runs for the shade
<pauljw> heheh, hi oerheks, no news here.  I lead a very boring life.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> thats where we showup to spice things up :p
<pauljw> :D
<pauljw> Just got in from getting my daughter registered for school, can't believe she's a high school senior this year!
<lotuspsychje> congrats pauljw
<pauljw> :)
<nacc> lol
<lotuspsychje> wth..
<nacc> i'm concluding it was trolling
<lotuspsychje> that resulted fast
<lotuspsychje> low support & rising trolls are the worst
<Bashing-om> Lost interest in supporting qwebircXXXX - he does not seem to put a lot of effort into the learning curve .
<nacc> yeah, it was weird
<nacc> and honestly, it's weird they were putting a GUI on a tensorflow machine
<oerheks> this is wanna make me stop helping qwebirc dudes, if they don't change the name, they are fake
<lotuspsychje> the weird thing is, sometimes 1 is real out of them
<lotuspsychje> how can we filter properly..
<oerheks> ask them to change name, and wait
<nacc> it's also really hard to help them over multiple days without a distinct nick
<lotuspsychje> thats true for sure
<lotuspsychje> we should complain on qweb itself, they need to force usernames fill in
<lotuspsychje> lemme check that site
<nacc> oerheks: i pinged the ops
<lotuspsychje> they are playing with each other again
<oerheks> nacc,  thanks, i just ignore that dude, and his ip from now on, i have a list :-D
<nacc> oerheks: yeah i do too, but for everyone else
<oerheks> i would love to write my own python program, that recognize ip/nicks and some marking/info details, but then again, that violates GDRP
<oerheks> sort of plugin for hexcaht
<oerheks> ... and some helpers have a fanclup, nacc :-D
<lotuspsychje> what a fishy website qwebirc..
<oerheks> lotus, they come to this site, i guess https://webchat.freenode.net/
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: with the client?
<oerheks> web client yes
<lotuspsychje> some wish about it: https://github.com/qwebirc/qwebirc/issues/265
<lotuspsychje> i guess someone would have to file a new wish
<lotuspsychje> what a weird thing, download a git client to access the freenode webchat?
<lotuspsychje> and have a fishy john doe username lol
<lotuspsychje> https://github.com/qwebirc/qwebirc/issues/359
<lotuspsychje> there
<lotuspsychje> lets hope they work fast on the git :p
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-26
<tomreyn> blackflow: i got no (16.04 -> 18.01) upgrade offer here, yet, even with -c
<blackflow> you mean -d ?
<tomreyn>   -c, --check-dist-upgrades
<tomreyn>                         Check if a new Ubuntu release is available
<blackflow> oh, yes.
<tomreyn> -d would be all wrong
<blackflow> hrm, well someone said earlier it's already available
<tomreyn> an i meant 16.04 -> 18.04.1 of course
<tomreyn> maybe it dpeends on your mirror servers
<blackflow> I know bionic already has the upgrade since yesterday at least.
<oerheks> here it is 26th, so that would be nice
<oerheks> not yet published
<oerheks> http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
<oerheks> # ubuntu-releaseparty :-D
<blackflow> you mean #ubuntu-release-party here on Freenode?
<oerheks> uhh, yes
<oerheks> it is an "update" release-party
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/392/builds
<lotuspsychje> seems like some good testing going on
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: happy with my cats? :p
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey guiverc
<guiverc_d> howdy lotuspsychje - sorry [i was] out with the birds :)
<lotuspsychje> i love birds :p
<lotuspsychje> dont have to be sorry mate, im used to the idle game
<lotuspsychje> i know you there
<guiverc_d> alas i do mean feathered [winged] birds :(
<westpfelia> Has anyone ever used Modern Honey Network?
<BluesKaj> Hi all
<blackflow> so... no one else gonna yell at me and stop me from suggesting this, saying Noooo, consolekit is normal on Xenial?   :)   am I correct that consolekit is out of place on Xenial?
<JimBuntu> blackflow, while it's available in universe, it's not default installed on Desktop, unsure about server, but doubt it's default there either
<BluesKaj> wonder if it's in the repos, it's not there on bionic
<ducasse> it's not default on my xenial server, no
<blackflow> it's in the repos for xenial and artful and yes, in universe.   so I guess removing console won't break their system (help in #ubuntu)... it's my guess that it's messing their user group in session, conflicting with logind.
<BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu, blackflow, ducasse
<blackflow> o/
<blackflow> apt -s remove consolekit showed nothing else pulled out, so.... I guess that'll fix it.
<ducasse> top o' the mornin' to ya, BluesKaj
<JimBuntu> g'morning BluesKaj, ducasse, blackflow and the rest ( even if it's not morning where you are )
<blackflow> it's alwyas morning somewhere ;)
<BluesKaj> much needed rain here ..we have major forest fires in Northern Ontario
<ducasse> forecast here says super-hot tomorrow, then heavy rain in the weekend. only had a couple of days with light rain this summer, so it's needed.
<BluesKaj> we can smell fire smoke here with an east or south wind, been smokey for days now
<BluesKaj> what does ctl+F4 do? someone over at #kubuntu used it to exit his game and now grub is in a loop and unable to login to the OS..looks like he's dual booting with windows
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, in 16.04 I don't see ctrl+F4 doing anything by default
<blackflow> ctrl?  iirc alt+F4 is the shortcut to close the window
<blackflow> (on windows at least)
<JimBuntu> ctrl+F4 will close a tab in Chrome much like ctrl+w will.
<BluesKaj> ok, he didn't say whether he was running the game in windows or kubunru...I'll ask him
<blackflow> ah good old days of trolling noobs in online games with "Press Alt+F4 for cheatcodes!"
<BluesKaj> bah, he left
<JimBuntu> Grub issues after closing a game sounds unrelated
<JimBuntu> or login issues for that matter.
<BluesKaj> yeah, makes sense
<JimBuntu> Now... if they said that they just installed the game and also installed GPU software/mods/drivers... now that would make sense
<BluesKaj> also we have a bot attacks from various IPs with that pedophile blog url claiming it's posted by a freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri'
<BluesKaj> err bot attacks - plural
<JimBuntu> I have seen this. Some information has been provided by others to freenode regarding the IPs/etc
<BluesKaj> the IPs are all different
<oerheks> morning :-)
<BluesKaj> 'Morning oerheks
<ducasse> \o oerheks
<oerheks> hi BluesKaj ducasse
<BluesKaj> some of the Ips are from places like China, Azerbaijan
<hggdh> morning folks
<BluesKaj> 'Morning hggdh
<blackflow> oooh, new steam haz big picture mode now on linux!
<tomreyn> it had that for years?
<blackflow> tomreyn: on linux?
<tomreyn> yes
<leftyfb> pretty sure it's had that since 2010
<blackflow> hrm..... why do I distinctly remember it saying it wasn't available for linux...
<leftyfb> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/11/how-to-login-to-steam-big-picture-mode-in-ubuntu
<leftyfb> article from 2012
<blackflow> huh.
<blackflow> anyway, yay. Now I can whip up a custom DE that's actually steam big picture mode.
<blackflow> or more precisely, steam big pciture mode only login session.
<leftyfb> https://store.steampowered.com/steamos/download/?ver=custom
<leftyfb> there's already an installer of SteamOS
<leftyfb> no need to install it on top of ubuntu and customize anything
<blackflow> but I want that on my 'buntu?
<blackflow> I don't want another OS I want a login session that's only steam. login -> steam -> exit -> gdm3 login
<pragmaticenigma> want what?
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: I don't think that exists yet, you could create a local user account with the window manager it logs into setup to autolaunch a script that would launch steam, and when you exit steam would log out of the DE session
<blackflow> pragmaticenigma: ability to log into steam big picture mode straight, and then log out back to gdm login prompt, straight
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: It's possible with a script that executes at login of the desktop session.
<blackflow> pragmaticenigma: yeah I was looking into doing something liek that via openbox or something, but I think I can make it work without an wm
<daftykins> surely after getting games working under Linux you're so tired you have no time for messing with the interface ;D
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: That part I'm uncertain of, the wm is what exposes elements an application needs in order to write to the compsitor and X11
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: concensous of the internet says it's not currently possible. many point here: https://github.com/thor27/steam-login/
<blackflow> daftykins: what doy ou mean, all my games JustWork(tm). I only had some trouble understanding and getting vulkan under wine for DooM, there was a problem with audio for Wolfenstein: The Old Blood, and I can't get Wolfenstein 2: The New Colossus   to run properly   all under wine.
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: even applications like KODI/XBMC require some window manager running to launch into their full screen sessions.
<blackflow> pragmaticenigma: well then a modified openbox or something it is. as long as I can get the wm stay out of the picture.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> that's rubbish, kodi has a standalone mode
<pragmaticenigma> that's what I would recommend, find a low resource window manager, that you can have autolaunch a script
<blackflow> daftykins: well I'm thinking steam would too, as the big picture mode is actually an exclusive opengl context.
<blackflow> well, we'll see.
<pragmaticenigma> daftykins: Standalone mode for KODI enables the system shutdown and power management controls. It still uses a slimmed down wm underneath
<blackflow> I once managd to run firefox directly under xorg and that worked. the menu didn't and I'm guessing because they required wm or higher level somethings
<daftykins> that's splitting hairs
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: Window managers are what offer hooks for window decorations (Min/max/close) and menu options. Not all applications use them, and some define their own
<blackflow> I know and that's the thing. steam big picture mode is a completely separtae fullscreen opengl context.
<pragmaticenigma> blackflow: on the surface it may appear that way... underneath, it told the window manager "Please don't decorate me, and just display me taking the entire window"
<blackflow> I'll be sure to report here my findings :)
<pragmaticenigma> Did #ubuntu finally start requiring registration?
<blackflow> pragmaticenigma: I guess it's a temporary measure due to those #freenodegate botrolls
<pragmaticenigma> yay! they were getting vicious yesterday
<blackflow> #ubuntu-server is still infested with them
<pragmaticenigma> I hit limbo since hexchat tried to join the room before it had identified
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<blackflow> o/
<leftyfb> oerheks: I'll keep -R so I can report them
<lotuspsychje> hey blackflow leftyfb tomreyn oerheks
<tomreyn> hello lotuspsychje
<nicomachus> what's #freenodegate
<oerheks> leftyfb, me too, ofcourse
<oerheks> nicomachus, lonely people channel?
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: those spammers setup a fishy wordpress blog
<tomreyn> how / where do you report?
<nicomachus> oh.
<nicomachus> still no 18.04.1. :/
<leftyfb> #freenode
<leftyfb> tomreyn: I just post in #freenode. The ops still see it and appreciate it
<oerheks> nicomachus, i am already on 18.04.1 ...
<daftykins> it's really only a number getting bumped on a given day :)
<nicomachus> I'm still on xenial. waiting for the upgrade path.
<tomreyn> i never know what they appreciate and what they dont
<tomreyn> so i wont join
<tomreyn> thanks for explaining
<leftyfb> tomreyn: I agree, but for this case, I think they're doing an ok job
<tomreyn> yes, it's a lot of work and they handle it fine
<lotuspsychje> ive reported some nmap scan results on those spammers ip to freenode staff, and they were glad
<tomreyn> got the same issue on another network
<tomreyn> this attack is huge, the botnet is huge
<blackflow> someone has an entire axe factory to grind with those two staffers it seems.
<tomreyn> new clients keep coming, with never before seen ips
<lotuspsychje> ircd's is always war :p
<BluesKaj> how to stop these bot pms?
<leftyfb>  /umode +R
<blackflow> oh they're PM-ing now?
<oerheks> Set /umode +R if you're getting tons of nonsensical PMs
<leftyfb> yep
<blackflow> holy cow.
<lotuspsychje> and just at .1 day lol
<oerheks> .. i put a spell on them, oke?
<blackflow> banish them to hell and then we'll take over! mwahahaha!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> ok works now , I was marked away and it wasn't working :-)
<lotuspsychje> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/392/builds
<lotuspsychje> 3 bugs on kubuntu amd64
<lotuspsychje> server iso's seems not ready
<JimBuntu> wow, just realized I have 11 PMs related to the spammers
<lotuspsychje> loll
<lotuspsychje> JimBuntu: did you think it were your freinds first?
<lotuspsychje> i seem to have 0 friends :(
<nicomachus> ayy I got my first PM.
<JimBuntu> TBH, I wasn't even paying attention to the DMs. I only DM with a few people and I didn't recognize the names.
<blackflow> perhaps the used irc server software could benefit from some input message filtering and shadowbanning.
<hggdh> you might want to consider setting yourselves +R
<hggdh> they now are going to a different route: join a channel, get the channel user's list, distribute it, and spam
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: on whole freenode?
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: I do not know -- I am not staff, and #f is currently moderated
<lotuspsychje> kk
<nicomachus> hggdh: yea I set +R after the first one. I thought I already had it before that but I guess I removed it after the last round of PM spam
<hggdh> but I know this is going on on different IRC networks
<hggdh> (my default it +R, set on connection to the network)
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: but I have seen the spam (and been told) that it is going on in a lot of channels
<lotuspsychje> ok
<hggdh> there are basically two options, channel-wise: /mode <channel> +q $~a; or mode <channel> +r
<hggdh> so, if any of you moderates a channel, you might want to consider that
<hggdh> the first one allows unregistered users to join, but they a re quieted; the second blocks unregistered users from joining
<blackflow> I'd add,   use +g if they start using registered accounts.
<lotuspsychje> okay tnx hggdh
<hggdh> so... the first one allows harversting of nick
<pragmaticenigma> oerheks: what does that /umode +R command do?
<hggdh> blackflow: yes indeed. But +g also allows for staff kills
<blackflow> hggdh: sorry, for what?
<hggdh> a freenode staff can kill the registration
<hggdh> ugh!
<hggdh> the other way
<hggdh> I receive spam from a registered account, I can go to #f and show it to staff
<blackflow> I meant usermode +g  aka   no PM unless you explicitly /accept or PM first, that other nick
<hggdh> blackflow: yes, that will work. I, though assume that if you went thru the trouble of registering, you are not really willing to lose the registration due to spamming others
<hggdh> so I go -g
<blackflow> registration is automatic, can be even scripted. these attackers seem to have huge motivation for wathever reason to do what they're doing
<hggdh> well, yeah. Still waking up, I guess. For whatever weird, and probably freudian, reason, I was thinking the whole time about cloaks, and writing about registration. Sorry
 * lotuspsychje_ slides a cold icecoffee to hggdh 
<pragmaticenigma> are the sites they are sending have anything even worth looking at? (asking for a friend)
<JimBuntu> pragmaticenigma, nope
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: pretty much what is currently called "fake news", to say, assertions with no provenance. But they state it is "a fact", so I saw many posting about it and stating it was a fact, and etc
<hggdh> (may $deity forbid their poor dumb souls)
<JimBuntu> export deity="Tux"
<hggdh> better saying assertions with no, or dubious, provenance
<pragmaticenigma> wonder what the campaign is all about then... why the spread of this is going on
<lotuspsychje> ircd's are always war pragmaticenigma
<lotuspsychje> always someone in a fight with someone else
<hggdh> also, see https://freenode.net/news/spambot-attack
<JimBuntu> lotuspsychje, let's fight!
<lotuspsychje> lol JimBuntu
<lotuspsychje> JimBuntu: where's my wonga's for the rabbits i catched for you
 * JimBuntu sends lotuspsychje loads of wongas
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the link hggdh
<lotuspsychje> usefull rss on there
<blackflow> weird thing about these domains is that one of them (bryan....) has been reg'd back in 2016.
<JimBuntu> it's an old fight
<lotuspsychje> seems like it JimBuntu
<pragmaticenigma> so if I enabled user mode +g ... how do I accept a message from someoen?
<pragmaticenigma> nm
<lotuspsychje> https://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-18-04-1-lts-bionic-beaver-officially-released-download-now-522124.shtml
<oerheks> and published http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
<lotuspsychje> tnx oerheks
<lotuspsychje> not yet on ubuntu.com
<oerheks> i spammed too
<oerheks> lolz
<lotuspsychje> progressive spam :p
<lotuspsychje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/18.04.1
<lotuspsychje> full changes list
<pragmaticenigma> Mmmm... spam
<pragmaticenigma> !isitout
<ubot5> Yes, it's out! Party in #ubuntu-release-party :)
<pragmaticenigma> hehe
<lotuspsychje> jesus what a bug list lol
<pragmaticenigma> I think the one everyone is interested in is the login loop fix and black screen issues
<tsimonq2> Hey lotuspsychje, I have a question. How the heck do I get magnet links? :P
<tsimonq2> I'm updating Lubuntu.me and my artwork guy usually does this, so I don't know how he gets them... :P
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: with a torrent client
<lotuspsychje> transmission does it
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: Can I get the magnets for Lubuntu 18.04.1 i386 and amd64 desktop images?
<tsimonq2> I haven't used a torrent client in a year, easily. :P
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: with 'get' you mean download right?
<oerheks> http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/file?info_hash=%3D%DF_c3IJO%23%CC%CB%FB%D4%16c%82M%5B%40%97
<oerheks> http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/file?info_hash=%BE%7Bb%C4%C6R%0EA%BF%CC%81%D9%16%AD%E4%90%ED%06%3DC
<lotuspsychje> or create a magnet link?
<tsimonq2> I mean, a link like http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/18.04/release/lubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
<tsimonq2> grr
<tsimonq2> I mean
<tsimonq2> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:5c8dae8e82fbd6d9a6fca7ed7680a5c281404555&dn=lubuntu-18.04-desktop-i386.iso
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: transmission picks up magnet links when click
<tsimonq2> ah
 * tsimonq2 tries
<oerheks> oh, mine didn't work ?
<tsimonq2> Ah, magnet:?xt=urn:btih:be7b62c4c6520e41bfcc81d916ade490ed063d43&dn=lubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
<lotuspsychje> qbittorrent did it also
<lotuspsychje> picked up your link, just tested
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: https://imgur.com/a/FeMpH7o
<lotuspsychje> 'open torrent link'
<tsimonq2> ack
<tsimonq2> Thanks
<lotuspsychje> no sweat tsimonq2
<tsimonq2> https://lubuntu.me/downloads/
<lotuspsychje> nice work mate!
<tsimonq2> Thanks :)
<lotuspsychje> we will spread the word its up tsimonq2
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: you gonna seed again?
<tsimonq2> https://lubuntu.me/bionic-1-released/
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: Please use that link for Lubuntu :)
<lotuspsychje> allrighty, nice blog
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: by the way, got some customers on bionic lubuntu that feel real good about it
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: awesome :)
<lotuspsychje> !18.04.1
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: What kind of customers, by the way?
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: im running an ubuntu webshop in belgium, with mostly xenial users but also early bionic with samsung 850 pro ssd's only
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: some older machines needed lubuntu xenial & bionic
<oerheks> i showed my windows-music-hardware-freak-neighbour some software in our repos, feel like a priest healing a poor soul
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: Nice :)
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: till now i found xenial lubuntu best so far, now bionic is equal
<tsimonq2> Ah.
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: so great work :p
<tsimonq2> Thanks :)
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: Right now it's just me on Lubuntu
<tsimonq2> We have some contributors that come in and out, and we've seen a lot of people translating, but otherwise the dev work has been me...
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: are you looking for contributers?
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: Another developer who knows packaging and C++ development would be nice.
<tsimonq2> Of course, someone who can pick up knowledge easily and is willing to pour a lot of time into learning would be good too.
<lotuspsychje> not an easy task finding :p
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: want me to ask the UWN guys to add it you seek new devs?
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: or make a blog first on it?
<lotuspsychje> something we can spread
<tsimonq2> I'll put it in our next weekly newsletter
<lotuspsychje> cool
<oerheks> good to know, i run into lubuntu fans daily
<tsimonq2> \o/
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje, oerheks: When 18.04.1 comes out, it would be cool to get feedback from people who use it. :)
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: ill remember that
<tsimonq2> Also, in all reality, I have no idea whatsoever how many people use Lubuntu or who...
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: cant that new stats help you on that?
<tsimonq2> No, we didn't get it integrated in time.
<lotuspsychje> ah
<oerheks> now lubuntu is the latest supplier of 32 bit images...
<lotuspsychje> yeah comes in real handy
<tsimonq2> So, I just work under the assumption that 100 people use it. That's it, just 100. :P
<tomreyn> hmm the amd64 alternative (classic) server iso doesnt seem to have any peers, yet.
<lotuspsychje> no way mate
<tsimonq2> I have to assume something, right? :)
<tsimonq2> Because like I said, I have no actual idea.
<tsimonq2> I don't know if it's 100,000 or if nobody actually uses it for anything anymore.
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: how about download hits can those make a figure?
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: I don't have download hits.
<tsimonq2> Those aren't public.
<lotuspsychje> ah
<tsimonq2> I mean, I could probably request them if I asked, but...
<lotuspsychje> well its hard to guess then, but in belgium we have a lot of old boxes
<tsimonq2> The only actual thing I have is the people who viewed the release announcement.
<lotuspsychje> there must be something to trace no?
<tsimonq2> 80,000 viewed the 18.04 announcement, but that doesn't guarantee downloads, especially with Lubuntu.net existing and f***ing everything up :(((((
<tsimonq2> Oh well.
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: Nope.
<tsimonq2> Nothing.
<tsimonq2> I plan on fixing this in 18.10 though.
<tsimonq2> We're (well, I'm) working on a welcome center that uses this by default.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: im sure there still tons of lubuntu users worldwide
<lotuspsychje> ive seen boxes in the wild in belgium with lubuntu on
<lotuspsychje> in a share community
<tsimonq2> The thing is, that's not a quantitative number. :P
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: we will know when we can measure :p
<tsimonq2> Yup.
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: is this important to you to know?
<lotuspsychje> i mean you consider quit project if it wasnt popular?
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: I want to see how much stress I should be having :P
<tsimonq2> I wouldn't quit.
<lotuspsychje> ah lol
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: your curious about how .1 rolls out in the wild thats it?
<oerheks> my grandma always says: if she says you are my only love, leave her
<lotuspsychje> lol
<tsimonq2> hehe
<oerheks> i ask my chihuahua almost every day, to find a new home, but he would not leave.
<oerheks> i would go with him :-D
<oerheks> i would like to find the last alinea/part at the end 'enterprise ready installation guides helping hands'  on top of the page https://www.ubuntu.com/download/alternative-downloads
<lotuspsychje> would be nice oerheks
<oerheks> https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
<oerheks> yay good work teams
<lotuspsychje> nice
<Bashing-om> Yup. looks real nice :)
<oerheks> .. no no shut up and be beautiful
<Bashing-om> simple is elegant :)
<lotuspsychje> less is more
<lovepopsickle> does the gui updater come out today or not?
<lotuspsychje> lovepopsickle: this channel is for discussions
<lotuspsychje> lovepopsickle: support in #ubuntu
<lovepopsickle> i am having a discussion right now
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: .5 is out already, this machine is running it
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> schedule says 15 aug?
<oerheks> so that aws kernel is oke
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<oerheks> else he needs an aws image
<lotuspsychje> .5 is 2nd aug
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: he's playing with some different docker images, was his original issue
<ducasse> i dunno, but lsb_release reports 16.04.5 here
<lotuspsychje> Hello! I was running kubernetes, which requires docker <= 1.13, and an apt upgrade accidentally bumped it to 1.17. Is there a way to downgrade back?
<lotuspsychje> must been more early release ducasse tnx
<lotuspsychje> anyway its nap time here
<lotuspsychje> ttyl guys
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-27
<tomreyn> hggdh: you just got klined on another network for spamming ;)
<hggdh> heh
<oerheks> oohhhh
<hggdh> so there is another hggdh around
<hggdh> well, not on gimp and here, at least
<hggdh> tomreyn: which network as it?
<tomreyn> hggdh: i wont tell, sorry.
<hggdh> no prob.
<tomreyn> it's the nice part of this botnet that you get to see many known nicks in unusual places
<tomreyn> so at least t has a small positive side effect (when over all it is very daunting if not aggravating)
<hggdh> tomreyn: so you had the pleasure of seeing me klined ;-)
<tomreyn> ;-)
<tomreyn> luckily those drones love some kline channels.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> its more fun in a graveyard lol
<lotuspsychje> !info udevadm
<ubot5> Package udevadm does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> !info udevadm xenial
<ubot5> Package udevadm does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> !flavors
<ubot5> Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. For a list, see https://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu-flavours
<lotuspsychje> jesus all the flavors channels are dead
<lotuspsychje> even #debian stuck at 1400 users
<lotuspsychje> normally their ontop of us
<lotuspsychje> morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<guiverc> JimBuntu, you found the one I was looking for (talking about), well done; 2-3 years; I'm as accurate as ever (2014)
<lotuspsychje> !cookie | JimBuntu telepathy!
<ubot5> JimBuntu telepathy!: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<lotuspsychje> perhaps this might interest you too EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> <JimBuntu> InHisName, https://www.happyassassin.net/2014/01/25/uefi-boot-how-does-that-actually-work-then/
<lotuspsychje> as uefi expert :p
<JimBuntu> thanks guiverc
<EriC^^> nice thanks lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> not my find :p
<EriC^^> well for highlighting me, i wouldnt have seen it otherwise
<lotuspsychje> ah ill remember it :p
<EriC^^> i actually read guiverc 's post and i was like damn i wish he remembers the link
<lotuspsychje> neat
<lotuspsychje> well jimbuntu is our glueman
<lotuspsychje> !xinput
<lotuspsychje> !mouse
<ubot5> Enabling extra mouse buttons: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ManyButtonsMouseHowto  - Enabling serial mouse: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SerialMouseHowto
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<JimBuntu> Great morning to you BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Good Morning to you too, JimBuntu :-)
<pragmaticenigma> does anyone know if there is a way to add a delay to an IRC script?
<pragmaticenigma> rather, hexchat commands to execute on joining a server?
<pragmaticenigma> or... I could probably join channels after I script the login ... that explains soo much
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: if you do not, yet, use SASL as well.
<pragmaticenigma> was just reading that in some documentation... any reason?
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: (1) more secure; (2) you only join channels *after* login, so there is no "... has quit (changing hosts)"
<hggdh> and good morning to all :-)
<oerheks> pragmaticenigma, for what client?
<oerheks> hi hggdh
<hggdh> morning oerheks
<oerheks> https://freenode.net/kb/answer/sasl
<pragmaticenigma> stand by... testing
<pragmaticenigma> it works!
<pragmaticenigma> no more purgatory
<oerheks> :-)
<pragmaticenigma> I think I hadn't been able to use that in the past because of something in my password
<oerheks> i crashed not using my full username
<pragmaticenigma> on a different private IRC server, I have to script my login identification... they require idenitify plus a secondary authentication to sync the irc chat with their web chat client
<BluesKaj> why a webchat ?
<pragmaticenigma> that's whay they did... I don't know why they did it that way
<BluesKaj> hexchat is quite good, but quassel is more suited for ubuntu
<BluesKaj> or even konversation if you're willing to put up with kde dependencies
<pragmaticenigma> I run KDE currently, but prefer hexchat since I can use it on multiple platforms and share the configuration with them
<BluesKaj> to me hexchat is a mishmash :-)
<pragmaticenigma> on gripe I have with hexchat is the coloring ... They don't have it well documented, and installing themes always scares me
<BluesKaj> anyway , grass needs cutting...bbl
<pragmaticenigma> do mine too please BluesKaj
<oerheks> here the grass is yellow and fluffy/dead
<pragmaticenigma> ya, mine is going on week two of really not needing cutting. save for a couple small areas that are typically shadded during the day
<oerheks> weeds, as in plants with unknown use, are growing and have beautifull flowers
<oerheks> those i have hardly seen, due to mowing the grass regulary
<oerheks> you might want to leave an edge uncut, BluesKaj
<pragmaticenigma> I have some weeds along the curb.. why they thrive there when nothing else does... is a mystery
<oerheks> some are protected too
<oerheks> i read some news years back, Dutch Militairy could not move trucks due to those plants, and sell them
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> nature wins
<pragmaticenigma> i don't think I have anyone on block... but I feel oerheks is seeing something I'm not?
<JimBuntu> pragmaticenigma, It's just been Blues, oer and you for the last 30 minutes
<BluesKaj> cutting my lawn is like a haircut, front is done, now just the sides and the back :-)
 * oerheks loves smooth legs
<oerheks> :-P
<BluesKaj> ?
<pragmaticenigma> I think oerheks has been hitting the sauce a bit hard today?
 * oerheks sniffs garlicbutter
<oerheks> :-D
<lotuspsychje> evening oerheks BluesKaj
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: i asked unit to edit topic and add .1 release in #lubuntu
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: seems like all the flavor channels are pretty dead
<oerheks> !ltsupgrade
<ubot5> Upgrades from 16.04 LTS will not be enabled until a few days after the 18.04.1 release expected in late July.
<oerheks> or they have no issues, or on holliday
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: I really should be an op in my own channel...
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: yeah...
<lotuspsychje> oerheks: the usercount is low, overall, even #debian 1400, they normally 2000
<ubot5> Error: Debian bug 1400 could not be found
<lotuspsychje> lol
<leftyfb> nacc: you know he's playing with ADB right? Nothing to do with ubuntu :)
<nacc> leftyfb: ack
<oerheks> ADB .. i read that is a huge backdoor
<oerheks> https://blog.trendmicro.com/trendlabs-security-intelligence/open-adb-ports-being-exploited-to-spread-possible-satori-variant-in-android-devices/
<lotuspsychje> everything is a danger on android :p
<lotuspsychje> mobile backdoor
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<oerheks> ukuu kukulekuuu
<oerheks> hi blue in the skaj
<lotuspsychje> lol
<oerheks> drunk of love .. but now the bottle is empty
<JimBuntu> ADB *shouldn't* be a back door as their *should* still be the need for the device to be rooted, adb to actually be listening over TCP (not supposed to be by default)
<JimBuntu> oerheks, seems some manufacturers/etc are doing really stupid things.
<oerheks> nooooooooo.... they were unaware?
<JimBuntu> They must have been, as that's against the stated best practices. ADB should be in USB mode and only after enabling both developer mode AND USB Debug... even then, it's another command to activate the TCP connection (normally)
<lotuspsychje> confusion in main lol
<EriC^^> xD
<nacc> who uses exclamation points without thinking...
<EriC^^> lol
<lotuspsychje> jesus that h7
<EriC^^> ubottu getting the wrap
<nacc> EriC^^: heh
<EriC^^> i think sync /dev/sda1 should work
<nacc> EriC^^: in their original question, they only had the mountpoint
<nacc> EriC^^: i thought the parameter to sync was a file
<EriC^^> same here, but it seems to work
<nacc> EriC^^: so if you gave it /dev/sda1, wouldn't it sync a non-real file?
<nacc> interesting
<nacc> maybe they implemented some smarts
<nacc> not sure what that does, as oerheks pointed out, with raid/lvm
<EriC^^> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/m87xpr435W/
<nacc> EriC^^: right, that does somethjing
<nacc> but it's not proof of what it does :)
<nacc> you'd need to check the block cache
<EriC^^> yeah, an strace should help i think?
<nacc> yeah
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> <H7R> whois nacc
<nacc> heh
<lotuspsychje> evening Bashing-om
<oerheks> ##ubuntu-my-upgrade-story-no-pastebin
<oerheks> :-D
<pauljw> hi everyone
<oerheks> hi paul
<pauljw> oerheks :)
<pragmaticenigma> Java 10 support schedule makes absolutely no sense ... haha
<pragmaticenigma> they release then immediately EOL it?
<tomreyn> i think there is just no plan to provide security patches
<tomreyn> upstream, for 10
<tomreyn> but can't really find a source for this now.
<tomreyn> the best thing we can do is not use java ;-)
<oerheks> yes, confusing https://askubuntu.com/questions/1037646/why-is-openjdk-10-packaged-as-openjdk-11
<nacc> it was announced around that time
<pragmaticenigma> I only use Java for eclipse IDE... so I can develop in Python... if you can figure that one out
<pragmaticenigma> haha
<nacc> since 11 wasn't out yet, iirc
<nacc> and to minimze cross-release number upgrades (which tend to be paniful)
<pragmaticenigma> yah, oracle has left a number of companies in a huge lurch because they droped 8 before they had a new stable LTS release out
<pragmaticenigma> oracle thought companies would be okay with doing incremental upgrades through 10 to get to the next LTS update
<tsimonq2> https://lubuntu.me/taking-a-new-direction/
<tsimonq2> Someone ping lotuspsychje when he's around.
<Bashing-om> lovepopsickle: He he .. sorry not to have responded .. working UWN .
<nacc> "i installed openstack from scratch"
<nacc> 5 minutes later
<nacc> "i used conjure-up"
<nacc> fridays!
<oerheks> no worries, it will soon be monday
<oerheks> moon is visable again, lunies.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-2jhTq1wIs
<nacc> lol
<oerheks> yeah, often the support channels go wild on such events
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-28
<lotuspsychje> yes!! its raining
<lotuspsychje> and good mornin :p
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: xenial received upgrade window yet?
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: Heya
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: https://lubuntu.me/taking-a-new-direction/
<lotuspsychje> morning tsimonq2
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: nice tsimonq2
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: no point supporting ancient boxes indeed
<lotuspsychje> with all those cpu exploits..
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: if users need/want they can use minimal lubuntu install right
<lotuspsychje> tune down their needs anyway
<lotuspsychje> and if the machine cant handle that anymore, its ready for the recycle
<tsimonq2> lotuspsychje: Don't spread this too much but I have somethong else in mknd... https://phab.lubuntu.me/T32
<tsimonq2> *mind
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> nice plan
<lotuspsychje> i always loved linux users choice
<tsimonq2> Right :)
<lotuspsychje> like those early redhat install where we could choose kde or gnome and individual packages
<tsimonq2> Yeah
<lotuspsychje> tsimonq2: so, some new energy for UWN on lubuntu this week :p
<tsimonq2> hehe
<Bashing-om> tsimonq2: Ya want to leave the softpedia article as exclusive coverage in UWN or also include your blog in this issue ?
<EriC^^> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> its raining EriC^^ :p
<lotuspsychje> cool breeze tru the open doors :p
<EriC^^> nice
<Bashing-om> Heber Springs, AR: Temp: 68Â°F (20Â°C) ~ Clear ~ Humidity: 94% ~ Wind: Calm ~ Observed: Sat 28, 00:55
<lotuspsychje> feels good now
<Bashing-om> A very nice and welcome respite .
<lotuspsychje> yess
<lovepopsickle> lotuspsychje, needs a new hobby
<lovepopsickle> probably get mad me talking in here
<mwsb> Calm down.
<lotuspsychje> yeah talk here
<mwsb> No point in keeping a feud going.
<lovepopsickle> lotuspsychje, maybe look at your logs about me trying to talk here and trying to stop that
<mwsb> Just let it go and move on.
<Bashing-om> exit - stage left \o
<guiverc> danger will robinson:   that brought back old memories;  but what about the younger gen who never watched lost in space?  (the lucky ones??)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<ducasse> hi BluesKaj
<EriC^^> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse, EriC^^ , how are you guys today?
<ducasse> fine, thanks - and you, BluesKaj?
<BluesKaj> doing fine here , thanks, ducasse
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: good thanks, you?
<ducasse> we were promised rain today, but it keeps getting postponed :(
<BluesKaj> yup, fine EriC^^
<BluesKaj> ducasse, yeah, we had the same problem for a few weeks here, now we multiple forest fires in the region, not threatneing us tho.
<BluesKaj> have
<BluesKaj> firefighters from as far as Mexico have been brought in to help...serious stuff
<ducasse> lack of rain is a real issue here as well, yet we still send people and gear to sweden
<BluesKaj> seems to be happening everywhere
<ducasse> this summer is pretty harsh
<BluesKaj> global warming seems to be a fact by now, not just speculation like some naysayers call it
<BluesKaj> we had almost a monthe 30+ degrees C here, very unusual
<BluesKaj> with very little rain, the forests are tinder dry
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<lotuspsychje> upgrade window noticed yet on xenial guys?
<tomreyn> wont happen until sarnold + co push some buttons
<tomreyn> +hi
<lotuspsychje> ah kk tnx tomreyn
<oerheks> so bvargo is back to square 1, where we left of an hour ago
<lotuspsychje> oO
<tomreyn> and i think their 'malware' is a cover story.
<tomreyn> oh wait permissions were ret by itself?
<tomreyn> *reset
<lotuspsychje> perhaps they scanned with outdated clamav :p
<tomreyn> or zfs ;)
<oerheks> i was messing around with permissions the other day. i forget why, but can we track that down?  there i hooked off
<lotuspsychje> cant recall here
<lotuspsychje> !info apt
<ubot5> apt (source: apt): commandline package manager. In component main, is important. Version 1.6.3 (bionic), package size 1164 kB, installed size 3850 kB
<lotuspsychje> wb hggdh
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia390
<ubot5> Package nvidia390 does not exist in bionic
<hggdh> just upgraded one cloud server to 18.04.1, uneventful
<lotuspsychje> cool
<hggdh> still nice. This instance runs my weechat and a few IRC bots (so a small server), and everything survived
<oerheks>  we are so happy with you, hggdh
<hggdh> oerheks: so I upgraded two of my servers to 18.04*. One as soon as 18.04 was released -- barfed at the end of upgrade, but still rebooted in 18.04;
<hggdh> and this one, with no issues at all
<hggdh> now I am starting to think of upgrading the others
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: Howdy!
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: don't get me started!
<pragmaticenigma> haha... I see potential.. but you're right.. it's too much like the windows ecosystem... and devs do not understand the risk of packaging other libraries with their "snap"
<pragmaticenigma> I think right below "Do not roll your own encryption" will soon stand, "Do not bundle other people's apps with yours"
<pragmaticenigma> on a different note... it's possible with the latest kernels... my issue with those laptops and power saving the screen causing strange behavior might have gone away in 18.04 TJ-
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: that's good news!
<pragmaticenigma> time will tell of course... just spun up 18.04.1 on one of them today... further testing to commence
<TJ-> I had a long time to wait trying to get the bluetooth-attached keyboard/touchpad dock to correctly use multi-touch instead of pretending to be just a mouse... I spent days trying to figure it out, gave up, then after one update it began to work as intended
<pragmaticenigma> The frustration has been that it worked flawlessly for a number of years, then starting around Ubuntu 14, that screen issue started up
<pragmaticenigma> I tried a number of the suggestions you had. playing with setterm commands... thought I had it pinned down to which monitor power save state was causing it and which one was fine... and then it would randomly change things up on me
<TJ-> yeah, I had something similar with a PCI sub-system breakage around 4.3 that still hasn't been fixed, devices that mapped under a PCI bridge previously no longer can, and therefore the devices don't work.
<pragmaticenigma> I know they dropped a whole lot of legacy architectures from the kernel, might have incidentally solved my issue
<pragmaticenigma> off to neighbors open house... catch up later... good to see ya here again TJ- ... been awhile
<TJ-> one of the problems of the kernel development process and distros is, for many people, the breakage takes a while to make it into the distro, but which time the change that caused it, and the developer(s) responsible, become very hard to pin down
<ducasse> hi TJ- - all well at the farm?
<TJ-> ducasse: yeah... wish I could say the same for software!
<ducasse> it never all behaves at the same time, does it?
<TJ-> No! I've been trying to get vagrant to fire up an ubuntu/bionic64 VM with libvirt today... breakage at every step, still not solved
<TJ-> no-one responding in the #vagrant channel in 12 hours so far
<TJ-> I've quickly learned to despise Ruby too :p
<ducasse> lol, add it to the list :)
<TJ-> Annoying part is, even with debug level logging, nothing is revealed. Come back shell scripts, "set -x",all is forgiven
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-07-29
<Bashing-om> Here ! - Better late than never, no ?
<hggdh> Bashing-om: always. Being late is just a state of mind
<hggdh> huh. Was I late answering your question?
<Bashing-om> hggdh: Uh Huh .. good answer :) Lately all things are a "state of mind" - mostly muddeled :P
<hggdh> heh
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<guiverc> Bashing-om, the 16.04 LTS upgrade path is open SOON according to release notes 18.04.1  - i assumed next monday from prior (14.04 to 16.04 upgrade path) from a.pope's comments on podcast; etc...
<guiverc> Bashing-om, release notes https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2018-July/000234.html mentioning SOON for 16.04 path
<Bashing-om> guiverc: Ouch .. I had expected the path to open with the .1 release !
<guiverc> i just remember the same questions last time (14.04 to 16.04) such that it was discussed on ubuntu podcast; hence looked for the "after .1" noting the after, & soon this time...
<lotuspsychje> waiting till the xenial bomb :p
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> hmm had few users the last days with scrambled 390 experience
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-driver-390 bionic
<ubot5> nvidia-driver-390 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-390): NVIDIA driver metapackage. In component restricted, is optional. Version 390.48-0ubuntu3 (bionic), package size 368 kB, installed size 1066 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-driver-390 cosmic
<ubot5> nvidia-driver-390 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-390): NVIDIA driver metapackage. In component restricted, is optional. Version 390.67-0ubuntu1 (cosmic), package size 369 kB, installed size 1070 kB
<lotuspsychje> !find 390.77
<ubot5> Found: W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W:, W: (and 230 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=390.77&searchon=names&suite=bionic&section=all
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-390/+bug/1752053
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1752053 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-390 (Ubuntu) "nvidia-390 fails to boot graphical display" [Critical,Fix released]
<ducasse> lotuspsychje: shouldn't he try 396?
<ducasse> (just asking, i don't know much about nvidia)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: think 396 is more for those 1060 gtx
<ducasse> right
<lotuspsychje> think he just needs that 390.77
<lotuspsychje> and the one from repo now is .48
<lotuspsychje> enabling proposed is also suggested on the bug..but
<lotuspsychje> i dont wanna make a proposed mess on users
<ducasse> nah, might pull in other stuff and make a mess
<lotuspsychje> also his drivers-list showed only 390
<lotuspsychje> hence why i dont think he needs 396
<BluesKaj> "Morning all
<pauljw> good morning BluesKaj :)
<pauljw> hi everyone
<BluesKaj> Hi pauljw, how's things?
<pauljw> good here, thanks.  how about you?
<BluesKaj> yeah, doing well here
<lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj how are you today
<BluesKaj> doing well thanks, lotuspsychje, how about you?
<lotuspsychje> all great here, raining here= fresh air breeze :p
<lotuspsychje> finally
<BluesKaj> nice , we need rain and lots of it
<lotuspsychje> guys i noticed alot of users with this bug latest days https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-390/+bug/1752053
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1752053 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-390 (Ubuntu) "nvidia-390 fails to boot graphical display" [Critical,Fix released]
<lotuspsychje> bug says fixxed, but still they get corrupted screens on the 390
<lotuspsychje> whats up with that?
<lotuspsychje> tried to forward one to ubuntu ppa for the 390.77 version, but no feedback yet
<lotuspsychje> and we dont want them to enable proposed neither right
<BluesKaj> yeah, proposed is risky
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: You around?
<TJ-> just about
<pragmaticenigma> TJ-: falling asleep?
<TJ-> been a very long frustrating day fighting stupid bugs in vagrant-libvirt
<pragmaticenigma> delete it? :)
<TJ-> I've been fixing it but by bit
<TJ-> it's about time these dev-ops type developers were sent to engineering school, or locked up, to prevent them throwing immature broken code out!
<pragmaticenigma> haha
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-22
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<EoflaOEViceCity> Good morning lordievader
<lordievader> Morning EoflaOEViceCity. How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOEViceCity
<EoflaOEViceCity> I am doing fine. How about you | hello lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> all good on this side tnx
<EoflaOEViceCity> You are welcome.
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<EoflaOEViceCity> Sorry for leaving, but Android oom-killer is killing IRC client.
<lordievader> Use a bouncer ;)
<lordievader> Or better, use matrix </advertisement>
<EoflaOEViceCity> What do you mean? My Android is 1GB RAM and is autokilling everything when opening the second app. I will have to find a solution.
<lordievader> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNC_(software)
<lordievader> It is typically not recommended to run an irc client from a phone due to the frequent disconnects.
<lordievader> So the work around is to take a host with a stable connection, run the irc client on there and connect your mobile to that host.
<lordievader> Oh and for more information about matrix: https://matrix.org
<EoflaOEViceCity> OK. Will do that soon.
<marcoagpinto> Heya!
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaaa...... I have run out of cola!!!! And last night the supermarket only had normal cola next to the checkouts so I couldn't buy cola zero :(
<marcoagpinto> I have only drunk 1 litre
<lordievader> Brrr 1 litre of cola. That would be enough for me to last a year.
 * lordievader rarely drinks cola
<marcoagpinto> :)
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<marcoagpinto> bluesceada!!!! Hello!
<marcoagpinto> I have been working on the British speller since 7am
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> 5 hours ago
<marcoagpinto> it is a hard work but someone has to do it
<lotuspsychje> immu: https://ubuntu.com/desktop/statistics
<immu> hi lotuspsychje
<immu> remember me lotuspsychje
<luna> yo BluesKaj
<immu> hi ducasse
<BluesKaj> hey luna/ducasse
<lotuspsychje> hey Mathisen
<sonicwind> interesting link, lotuspsychje ... I haven't seen that before
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: might not be real accurate but..
<lotuspsychje> its an idea right
<sonicwind> better than anything else maybe
<immu> lotuspsychje, we had a kubuntu user here named blueskaj , he is still around?
<lotuspsychje> immu: scroll up
<sonicwind> BluesKaj, is in the room here
<BluesKaj> immu, that's me
<immu> BluesKaj, hi
<BluesKaj> hi immu
<immu> long time huh BluesKaj
<immu> so as asked how many of users here prefer a LTS release?
<sonicwind> lotuspsychje, 11% still using 800x600
<lotuspsychje> count me 1 immu
<Mathisen> LTS for work, not for home :)
<BluesKaj> immu, I'm a Kubuntu tester so i'm usually running a dev OS
<sonicwind> I use LTS
<immu> i am still undecided between a lts or point release cycle of ubuntu
<sonicwind> do you value stability?
<BluesKaj> LTS has point releases
<lotuspsychje> i think he means non-lts
<lotuspsychje> immu: wich version are you on now, and wich versions are you doubting about?
<tomreyn> unless you can list reasons which require you to use non LTS releases, use LTS
<sonicwind> hi tomreyn
<tomreyn> hi sonicwind
<immu> do lts releases get software updates like latest version of google chrome or firefox?
<immu> gnome also
<lotuspsychje> immu: do you need latest versions, and why?
<immu> newer features
<leftyfb> immu: google chrome and firefox are different than most packages and do get updates through LTS releases
<tomreyn> LTS releases get rolling releases for firefox and chromium.
<sonicwind> lotuspsychje, I don't know how accurate these stats are in that link, but I am finding them fascinating
<tomreyn> leftyfb: google chrome, too? via partner?
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: (i think )they started those stats, togheter with the ubuntu welcome screen
<sonicwind> I thought a lot more people were using lvm and encrypted lvm
<tomreyn> i assume those stats were accurate at the time they were generated, which was sometime last year
<immu> do software vendors targeting Ubuntu, target LTS release? say steam?
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: This report is generated from basic, non-identifiable system data that was provided by users when installing Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: so users can also choose, to not send stats
<sonicwind> right
<immu> also i believe less headache on LTS release?
<leftyfb> tomreyn: via their own repo which gets installed when you install the package from their site
<tomreyn> immu: most target LTS, sometimes also the latest stable non-LTS release.
<tomreyn> leftyfb: oh right.
<tomreyn> i had forgotten the run a repo
<tomreyn> installer defaults matter a lot, really. many people just keep what's default, don't enable encryption. i think 'ubuntu desktop' should default to FDE (incl. /boot) on at least laptops. but this would depend on canonical hiring more staff to actually make this happen, test it a lot, and do it in a way that lets users recover their system or at least their data if things fail. ubuntu used to be leading in such general improvements, but
<tomreyn> that's a while ago sadly.
<immu> has the new nvidia drivers landed?
<immu> in LTS ?
<lotuspsychje> immu: is this what you readed? https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/05/ubuntu-19-10-nvidia-drivers-iso
<immu> no, this one https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/07/install-nvidia-driver-update-ubuntu-its @lotuspsychje
<tomreyn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NVidiaUpdates
<lotuspsychje> immu: do you have an nvidia card?
<immu> yes i do
<lotuspsychje> immu: and wich version of ubuntu are you running?
<immu> 19.04 as of now
<lotuspsychje> immu: i thought you said you were still doubting wich ubuntu version you would install?
<immu> yeah
<immu> i am thinking of install LTS on other system
<lotuspsychje> immu: check: ubuntu-drivers list
<immu> sure brb
<immu> let me install LTS
<immu> brb
<lotuspsychje> lol
<EoflaOEViceCity> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOEViceCity
<EoflaOEViceCity> How was your day?
<lotuspsychje> warm
<EoflaOEViceCity> Me too, it was on night in my time, but generally, warm all the time.
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOEViceCity: i see your blog also contains ubuntu articles
<EoflaOEViceCity> lotuspsychje: Nice. Do you have a blog about Ubuntu or Linux?
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOEViceCity: no, im running a webshop busniess with ubuntu LTS and samsung ssd's, from home
<EoflaOEViceCity> Nice. Can I see it?
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOEViceCity: i do have a blogger, linked for my customers news
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOEViceCity: https://lotuscomputers.be
<lotuspsychje> only in duch for now
<lotuspsychje> *dutch
<EoflaOEViceCity> Nice design. Can I translate the whole website to English?.
<lotuspsychje> its fine, its on my list mate
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOEViceCity: we do have an Ubuntu news lettre if you like, they always looking for articles writers, are you interested?
<EoflaOEViceCity> Was it with English? If so, then yes.
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOEViceCity: yes, see #ubuntu-news
<EoflaOEViceCity> OK
<EoflaOEViceCity> Joined.
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOEViceCity: here's an example: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue587
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOEViceCity: if you still like it, leave a proposal in #ubuntu-news you would like to contribute
<EoflaOEViceCity> OK.
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: how to see if debian has the same version?
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: maybe show output of "dconf" as well.
<tomreyn> ..oin the bug report
<tomreyn> debian has https://packages.debian.org which works mostly the same way as ubuntu's, since ubuntu borrowed this from debian
<tomreyn> i.e. https://packages.debian.org/gnome-boxes
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: the output is described in the description, but only 2 lines, all the rest are the same lines spamming
<tomreyn> on your bug report, you showed the output of dconf-editor, not that of dconf, right?
<lotuspsychje> oh
<lotuspsychje> wich command on dconf?
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: bionics version is also: 3.28.1-1 dont see that one in debian?
<tomreyn> okay, don't file it against debian then
<lotuspsychje> k tnx
<tomreyn> dconf has get and dump commands, i think
<tomreyn> note how i suggested you cross test with dconf in #ubuntu ;)
<tomreyn> (i did not say "cross test" though)
<lotuspsychje> gotya
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: spitted out this: https://hastebin.com/dopamawoze.coffeescript
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: you're looking for key "collections"
<tomreyn> dconf doesn't seem to show it there, maybe its in a lower hierachy?
<tomreyn> maybe run   dconf list /org/gnome/boxes/
<tomreyn> this should list available targets there
<lotuspsychje> empty values
<tomreyn> hmm. i'm not really sure how this stuff works, i must admit
<lotuspsychje> nothing on dconf list /org/gnome/boxes/collections/ neither
<tomreyn> i guess it's more likely to be a bug in dconf-editor though if dconf itself doesn't throw any warnings when you're accessing the same schema
<tomreyn> ah maybe gsettings would be the right CLI utility to cross test with, not dconf
<tomreyn> try gsettings list-recursively org.gnome.boxes
<lotuspsychje> that seems to work
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: https://hastebin.com/piqerakozo.rb
<tomreyn> did it list the collections key including its values?
<tomreyn> same warning, ok
<tomreyn> so, yes, should be a gnome-boxes issue
<lotuspsychje> want me to add the output aswell?
<tomreyn> up to you ;-)  it's really using gio libs to access this data both times
<tomreyn> but developers may prefer CLI utils over GUI ones.
<lotuspsychje> well it looks useful info on all values
<tomreyn> maybe not gnome devs, though, not sure ;)
<lotuspsychje> updated bug #1837445
<ubot5> bug 1837445 in gnome-boxes (Ubuntu) "Failed to parse translated string on dconf-editor launch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1837445
<tomreyn> nice. so now you just need to find a volunteer to handle this bug, or proove that it also exists in gnomes' gnome-boxes source code repository and maybe a volunteer or non-volunteer will handle it then. ;)
<lotuspsychje> yeah not much volunteers are using gnome boxes, think it was ruenoak saying he liked it
<lotuspsychje> plus, this might be the dutch part complaining too
<lotuspsychje> maybe the english version wont spit out
<tomreyn> "Most contributors to Boxes hang out at #boxes on irc.gnome.org. Contributors, users and developers are more than welcome to direct any questions there. Discussions also take place at our Mailing list. "
<tomreyn> from https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Boxes/Resources
<lotuspsychje> aha
<lotuspsychje> whats that translate trick again to fool a language
<tomreyn> export LANGUAGE=C
<tomreyn> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-boxes/blob/master/po/nl.po is the dutch .po file
<lotuspsychje> bingo tomreyn
<lotuspsychje> the export trick doesnt give errors
<tomreyn> line 97
<tomreyn> i compared with de.po (german) and the syntax / format there is identical.
<tomreyn> so either multiple .po's are incorrect, or gio fails to parse this properly.
<lotuspsychje> maybe every non-english language will spam errors?
<tomreyn> you know how to test it
<lotuspsychje> no
<tomreyn> oh LANGUAGE=fr or something
<lotuspsychje> oh right
<tomreyn> you'd need to have the locale installed, thoough
<lotuspsychje> lets do that
<tomreyn> sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales
<tomreyn> and select the ones you want to test
<tomreyn> this will cause these selected locales to be generated for every software you have installed. can take a while
<tomreyn> i don't really know how to do it just for one application using ubuntu / debian tooling.
<lotuspsychje> added fr be
<lotuspsychje> and its reconfiguring the whole list
<tomreyn> so you should be able to get localized     apt update    output now
<tomreyn> (just an example)
<lotuspsychje> list still going :p
<tomreyn> yes, this can be some minutes
<lotuspsychje> *** update-locale: Warning: LANGUAGE ("nl_BE:nl") is not compatible with LANG (fr_BE). Disabling it.
<lotuspsychje> lol
<tomreyn> hmmm
<lotuspsychje> tryed DE or FR but stays english
<tomreyn> set LANG rather than LANGUAGE then
<tomreyn> example:   export LANG=nl_BE.UTF-8
<tomreyn> you may need to close and reopen the temrinal emulator window to reset it to the default LANG (or run export setting the default, if you know your default)
<tomreyn> you may need to close and reopen the temrinal emulator window to reset it to the default LANGUAGE (or run    export LANGUAGE=...    thus setting the default, if you know your default)
<tomreyn> ^ this
<lotuspsychje> whats the DE value
<tomreyn> DE is the ISO language code for german, but where did you spot this?
<lotuspsychje> locales -a
<tomreyn> "locale -a" would print it since it's an available locale in ubuntu, yes.
<lotuspsychje> doing something wrong i think
<tomreyn> actually,     locale -a     prints locales available on your system
<tomreyn> so you may have selected this one
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@Rootbox:~$ export LANGUAGE=fr_FR dconf-editor
<lotuspsychje> bash: export: 'dconf-editor': is geen geldige naam
<lotuspsychje> not a valid name
<tomreyn> make this two commands
<tomreyn> either      LANGUAGE=fr_FR dconf-editor
<tomreyn> or     export LANGUAGE=fr_FR; dconf-editor
<tomreyn> the former runs only this command with the given environment variable set
<lotuspsychje> the later worked yeah
<lotuspsychje> dconf id in french now
<tomreyn> the latter sets this environment variable within the active shell session
<lotuspsychje> but no errors on french
<tomreyn> i.e. then it persists for commands run from this terminal / shell until you close the terminal emulator
<lotuspsychje> ok, german dont error neither
<tomreyn> hmm maybe it's just this one translation then that's buggy
<lotuspsychje> seems like it
<tomreyn> you can check the previous commits for nl.po in the git repo
<lotuspsychje> ill add the locales tests to the bug, tnx tomreyn
<tomreyn> yw
<luna> Debian-Women, Debian-Transwomen and Debian LGBTQ meeting now
<Bashing-om> UWN588 is on the strets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue588
<EoflaOEViceCity> I just saw that Bashing-om.
<EoflaOEViceCity> And it's nice
<Bashing-om> EoflaOEViceCity: Thanks - a bit skimpy this week - not mcuh going on in our world - we could report more if there were an expressed interest in what is in the pipeline for ubuntu .
<EoflaOEViceCity> OK Bashing-om. I have to sleep now. Goodbye.
<Bashing-om> EoflaOEViceCity: Laters - take care til we meet again :P
<EoflaOEViceCity> OK
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-23
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<marcoagpinto> Hey
<luna> hi
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> [12:57] <marcoagpinto> I have been working on the speller since 7am!
<marcoagpinto> [12:57] <marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> [12:57] <marcoagpinto> so much to do and so little time
<hggdh> tomreyn: it should be ubuntu-desktop^ # the caret at the end is important
 * hggdh goes for a breakfast
<lotuspsychje> bon apetit
<marcoagpinto> :)
<tomreyn> hggdh: ah, the task, right, thanks.
<marcoagpinto> guys?! Now that you mention it... the trashcan icon looks ugly in 19.04 :(
<marcoagpinto> and it also looked bad in 18.10
<marcoagpinto> in 19.04 the updates icon also looks a bit ugly
<BluesKaj> who uses the trashcan anymore ?
<marcoagpinto> what?
<marcoagpinto> when you delete files?
<marcoagpinto> :)
<BluesKaj> add delete to file filemanager services
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhhh
<BluesKaj> of coursew you probly run gnome so...
<marcoagpinto> I don't understand what you mean
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I only select files and click on delete
<lotuspsychje> nautilus==>bypass the trash==>remove instantly
<marcoagpinto> ohhhhhhhhhh
<BluesKaj> then they're deleted, bypassing the trashcan
<marcoagpinto> that is scary... I have it disabled on Windows
<lotuspsychje> dont delete something you still need
<marcoagpinto> well, at first I delete but sometimes I need again
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> like images and such
<BluesKaj> no, just kaje sure you don't need the file(s)
<BluesKaj> make
<BluesKaj> my KB is fooling me again
<marcoagpinto> anyway, Ubuntu is becoming better and better
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> there is still hope for a free OS
<marcoagpinto> :p
<marcoagpinto> back in 2012 it looked so bad
<BluesKaj> Kubuntu is the only OS I use
<marcoagpinto> Kubuntu is hard to use and it had some bugs years ago
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> and I only used it to take screenshot for Proofing Tool GUI
<marcoagpinto> then, I decided I didn't need so many screenshots
<marcoagpinto> so, now I only have Ubuntu
<BluesKaj> nope, it's just more configurable than unity ot gnome
<BluesKaj> or
<marcoagpinto> well, if I win the Euromillions tonight I will buy a powerful laptop and install all the flavours
<marcoagpinto> :)
<yelowfish> hi xenial users.what system wide equalizer do u use ?
<marcoagpinto> just like years ago... Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu and Debian
<marcoagpinto> :)
<BluesKaj> why, who needs that many flavors
<BluesKaj> yelowfish, no EQ here , just straight thru
<yelowfish> ok
<BluesKaj> why do you use EQ, ...bad sounding speakers ?
<lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.3-MacBook-Key-Trackpads
<tomreyn> yet another overpaid developer
<tomreyn> :-P
<lotuspsychje> always good to see enw devices support for me
<lotuspsychje> new
<daftykins> moot when it's Apple!
<tomreyn> yes, it's generally good to see new hardware supported.
<lotuspsychje> vote funky flamingo, on all mac types!!
<pragmaticenigma> flippin flamingo sounds better
<lotuspsychje> lol
<pragmaticenigma> then we can go with flippin the bird
<lotuspsychje> welcome radu_m
<lotuspsychje> radu_m: there are some developers in this channel but mainly for ubuntu its in #ubuntu-devel
<tomreyn> flippin the coin sounds more like apple
<lotuspsychje> radu_m: but feel free to make a discussion here
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: roflol
<radu_m> Hello everyone!
<tomreyn> hi radu
<radu_m> I intend to create some CLI applications. Could you recommend me some resources about the deployment mechanism used by Ubuntu, and other Debian derivatives?
<lotuspsychje> radu_m: a contributing start point could be here aswell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
<radu_m> Yeah. I was reading something there. There's where I've got the irc channel. I was looking more after something like a Software Architecture overview of the Ubuntu system
<tomreyn> ubuntu is a linux distribution, not a single software, so there won't be a single software architecture document, i would think.
<daftykins> seems like you want to look into packaging then - and PPAs perhaps
<radu_m> I have 10+ years experience in programming. But I am relatively new to the linux world
<radu_m> Yes. And some details about the Directory structure. I mean, more than the general descriptions I have found on google
<tomreyn> there are two software distribution mechansms in ubuntu at this time. the classic one is APT (dpkg, .deb files), which is how the majority of software is installed and managed on an ubuntuinstallation. the other, rather newly introduced, option is !snaps
<tomreyn> !snaps
<ubot5> Snaps are containerised software packages similar to flatpaks or appimage. For more info, see https://snapcraft.io
<tomreyn> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/apcs02.html https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: You're looking for details where none exist. Each linux distribution has it's own approach to doing things. There are generally practiced approaches to all, which is why you only find generic descriptions. Each distribution has it's own approaches to things. For programming, it's better to not code to a specific archetecture, and make sure things like file paths can be defined in configuration files, to make the
<pragmaticenigma> application more flexible to the environment it will be installed to.
<radu_m> If I am to package an application as a .deb file. After installation (taking into account the Filesystem Tree), it's files will be scattered all over, right? Conf files in /etc, binaries in /usr/bin and so on
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: Files are placed where you define them to go
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: Most application developers will install to their own folder in /opt ... where it's acceptable to have all components of the application kept in one place
<daftykins> but you'd want to follow convention
<radu_m> My under development CLI app in in /opt too. But ran into confusion when I had to change the system configuration
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: What do you mean "change the system configuration" ?
<radu_m> Right now, I am writing a wrapper for apache. And I want to allow regular users to create project directories and host them on sub-domains
<radu_m> And in order to accomplish that, I added an entry in sudoers.d
<radu_m> I am not sure how to avoid using that, and not having to write a setuid app either
<radu_m> I read that setuid programs open a lot of security holes
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: Just to let you know... that's already built into Apache and made available with a module
<radu_m> And here is where I am in doubt. On my system, I can change the sudoers file and add special permissions. But if I am to deploy the application, how do I achieve the same thing without the need for special intervention from a sysadmin
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: To be more specific, Apache already supports the ability to allow local users to host their own websites from their home directories. Giving them domains is a matter of using mod-rewrite rules
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: So my question to you... why all this effort when the things you desire already exists?
<radu_m> You are referring to ~user path, right?
<pragmaticenigma> That's a default setting, but can be changed with a config file. Further, you can use modrewrite to translate "user.example.com" into "example.com/~user" ... so the end user would be none the wiser
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: what I'm seeing with your approach is a bunch of extra overhead, and then more added overhead in order to manage all of it
<daftykins> virtualhosts is a thing, don't see a reason to reinvent the wheel
<radu_m> This is suppose to integrate more tools together
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: What tools?
<radu_m> If would generate an initially blank project, with a grunt-build system and a sublime-text project with all the js classes and libraries available on the system
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: Define what is a project
<radu_m> A bunch of files :)
<radu_m> Hosted on a sub-domain
<radu_m> How do I achieve this with a single command? Do you suggest that there is already something available?
<pragmaticenigma> So in all that you have explained to me... you are literally reinventing the wheel for something that Apache supports out of the box
<radu_m> The subdomain is suppose to be the project name
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: And as daftykins already mentioned, that's what virtualhosts are for
<pragmaticenigma> I run several subdomains for different projects on my web server. I defined each one with it's own virtualhost config file
<radu_m> Exactly! But a regular user cannot do that. Am I wrong?
<daftykins> why does a user without system permissions need to run a web server?
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: That all depends on the permission you grant them, and the membership to the correct user groups. But would a user need access to those things. That's how you end up with developers getting things to work in your Dev and QA environments, but failing miserably in production
<radu_m> That's what this CLI app is supposed to do. Generate the apache conf file, and run a2ensite
<daftykins> can't see a use beyond a leaning exercise
<daftykins> learning, too
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: If this is a development environment, you are better off finding ways for Apache to handle as much of this for you. There are ways to make it so a wild card subdomain is translated to the correct project directory. Without the need to reconfigure apache for each new project
<radu_m> Ok. Learning. How do I deploy an app like this?
<radu_m> Yes. But that would leave me with a rigid directory structure. Each project would have to be in a certain place. And being an experimental process, I haven't figured out yet, where that place should be. I want to be able to create these directories freely. With a simple command
<radu_m> manole create project Prj1
<radu_m> And that creates the directory Prj1, places some initial files inside, runs git init, and I can easily access prj1.myhost.intranet
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: Instead of the deep dive approach, I would start at the beginning... first figure out how to run your projects via a path. example.com/prj1 and example.com/prj2
<radu_m> That would be trivial, if all of them were on the same path in the filesystem
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: They should be... if they're not, what are you trying to do exactly?
<daftykins> violate convention apparently :)
<radu_m> I already have all of this working. With the subdomain and all. But the thing I don't like, is that sudoers.d file I added, and which I will have to maintain in the future. I don't know how to do the deployment of such things
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: and what we're trying to tell you is you are creating so much more work for yourself presently than is needed
<radu_m> daftykins: Yes. That's pretty much what I am trying to do in this case. This would be used on a development system, not on a live one
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: That leads into a bigger issue... your development system should be set up EXACTLY like your production system. If it isn't... you will always have issues going to production with your applications
<radu_m> Letting all this on the side, if I do keep my app in /opt, how would I update it on all stations?
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: explain what you mean by "Update it on all stations"
<pragmaticenigma> what is a station, what are you updating?
<radu_m> If I make changes to the code. And I want all those changes reflected on every pc in the lan on which I do have the app
<pragmaticenigma> you read up on deployment tools that automate that process for you
<radu_m> That's what I was asking from the beginning. An architectural overview on how deployment works in Ubuntu
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: Let me ask you this... Is this for a hobby or are you doing this for a company that employs you?
<radu_m> Hobby
<radu_m> And I believe it would be a useful learning exercise
<radu_m> If I learn how to do it properly, could prove useful at one point
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: And we've been trying to explain to you the most efficient and trouble free way to accomplish that. I've been doing this for over 20 years. There are no shortcuts, and from what you have described so far, you are literally reinventing wheels that exist. Would it be helpful to have something build config files when you create a project?... sure. But if you configure your environment properly, that issue goes away
<pragmaticenigma> and you can focus on your application development, instead of your tool kit to manage everything.
<pragmaticenigma> I personally run several home made applications on my server. Each with their own subdomain. All my projects live in /opt/projects/dev/{project_name} and I use a mod-rewrite rule to allow me to access my projects without need for a custom config file for each new project
<pragmaticenigma> With my applications in one spot, I can leverage rsync or simple SFTP/SCP to copy those files to another server if I need to.
<pragmaticenigma> All of this done with the tools and configuration files already available to me. Could a deployment tool help with some of this... sure, but that adds an entire layer of complexity that I don't currently require.
<radu_m> I see
<radu_m> Reinventing a lot of wheels is how I learned all I know
<radu_m> This would probably not be useful for an experienced person. But for a new-comer, if would certainly be nice to type a few words and have it working. There are still a lot of people out there who add the path to their files in apache.conf
<pragmaticenigma> radu_m: And what I'm suggestion requires no typing
<pragmaticenigma> *suggesting
<pragmaticenigma> The *path* to linux enlightenment, is to start with learning to stop using paths
<radu_m> Ok. Thank you for your input!
<daftykins> when you automate things you tend to forget how it's done properly imo
<hggdh> daftykins: I agree. Pretty much all automation I have written resulted in both a seamless process, and getting rust in my memory
<hggdh> (some times I would go back to something I wrote, and get doubts on what the hell was going on there)
<pragmaticenigma> same for me... plus making some really convuluted web applications, and then running security scans against them years later to discover massive holes allowing malicious attacks against the underlaying system because one setting undoes another
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: yeah. The WTH is going here works for both what I forgot *and* for the "but this is REALLY bad!" things
<hggdh> so... went to pick up my mail in the mailbox and... found a wasp's nest. Actually the wasps found me. Got stung a few times.
<daftykins> holy moly
<daftykins> sounds like a trap
<hggdh> and, of course, my mobile fell to the pavement JUST by the mailbox, so I had to return and pick it up
<hggdh> yeah. And I fell to it like a born sucker
<tomreyn> this wouldn't have happened with pop3!
<hggdh> there you go. Gonna complain with the UPPS, asking for snail-mail to be delivered by POP3
<tomreyn> sorry to hear this, though. did you recover your phone?
<hggdh> so, now I have a left thumb that is sort of difficult to move, and some two stings in the back (while I was, cowardly, running away
<tomreyn> ow crap :/
<hggdh> I got the phone, yes. And I was not stung again :-)
<hggdh> the only good point is they were the common red wasps, NOT the yellow jacket
<tomreyn> well that at least.
<OerHeks> not-honey-bees :-D
 * hggdh notes that the saying "red wasps do not hurt" is false.
<OerHeks> wasps die after they sting?
<hggdh> nope
<hggdh> they can sting again and again
<OerHeks> here they do, the sting will break off
<tomreyn> i was thinking it's bees who die when they sting, not wasps
<hggdh> last time I was walking the dog, and one (I do not know what type) got thrown by the wind against my face, and stung me just south on my right eye
<tomreyn> uuh also very unfortunate
<tomreyn> you seem to be a prime target
<hggdh> I think I will move...
<hggdh> on the good side, now I got some new muscles growing on my hand and back
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.55.57 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 15 kB
<tomreyn> OerHeks: N.0.05 looks bad to me!
<tomreyn> that's propably a pre-customization version
<OerHeks> i just looked at the date ..
<tomreyn> oh ok, that's just bad in terms of intel cpu bugs.
<Mathisen> https://github.com/diego-treitos/linux-smart-enumeration?fbclid=IwAR3McuemXewSTDB9WMy4gp5-3frR47HsnYQDF2fe1Y_YoTaRcsMrqfBDlSQ
<tomreyn> Mathisen: did you have any green Yes! then?
<Mathisen> 2 :) but did type the sudo pass so that is cheating
<Mathisen> still handy tool
<tomreyn> it's probably useful in some docker containers ;)
<tomreyn> using pre-made images
<Mathisen> it just reminded me off one .htpasswd i forgot about
<tomreyn> thats kind
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: heh, are you where your dns says you are? :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah, temps are killing tonight, phew
<sarnold> oh :( sorry :( good luck
<lotuspsychje> 25c at 2h28
<sarnold> it's just *super* early for your part of the world -- I'd always assumed you were in au or nz :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah i confuse alot with aus timezones always
<lotuspsychje> sarnold: wich part are you from?
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: portland, oregon, usa
<sarnold> 1729 at the moment
<lotuspsychje> whats the temps over there?
<sarnold> 26c
<lotuspsychje> okay-ish :p
<lotuspsychje> they predict code red here today, 41c
<sarnold> it's about 21-22 indoors, so when I head outside to move my garden sprinkler, it just feels like a nice warm summer day; if I were to be *doing* something outside in the sun, I'd certainly think it too warm
<sarnold> 25 at 2am is just way too much though
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.154.162 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 15 kB
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-discuss/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=FIXRELEASED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affec
<lotuspsychje> ts_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search
<lotuspsychje> the -discuss team solved bugs :p
<EoflaOE> Hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE
<lotuspsychje> have you been able to work for UWN yet EoflaOE ?
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Yes, and am invited for Gdoc.
<lotuspsychje> nice1
<EoflaOE> Thanks
 * lotuspsychje runs away fast
<marcoagpinto> heya
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... I have run out of cola
<marcoagpinto> :(
<daftykins> time for that soft drink diet ;)
<daftykins> best thing i ever did giving up that stuff
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<luna> http://ubuntupodcast.org/2019/07/25/s12e16-glider-rider/
<pragmaticenigma> leftyfb: How does #snappy help with Ubuntu Core image?
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: Ubuntu core is all snap related. They would know better.
<leftyfb> a bit surprised there isn't an #ubuntu-core
<pragmaticenigma> okay... I wasn't aware, I thought core was like what "Fedora Core" used to be
<leftyfb> though really, after the image is working, it's all snappy from there
<leftyfb> nope
<pragmaticenigma> good to know
<lotuspsychje> !info firefox
<ubot5> firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 68.0+build3-0ubuntu0.18.04.1 (bionic), package size 50387 kB, installed size 190028 kB
<hggdh> and... chromium is now snap-only
<lotuspsychje> aha tnx hggdh
<pragmaticenigma> probably easier to maintain that way?
<pragmaticenigma> sucks that nothing will be able to leverage webkit library sharing
<pragmaticenigma> well.. harder to share
<luna> Listening to this weeks podcast now
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: yes, MUCH easier to maintain. One single snap will work on all supported platforms
<pragmaticenigma> i'm still in the camp, if I wanted snaps... I would have installed windows camp
<luna> Downloading the new Eoan +1 release now
<lotuspsychje> please no crossposts luna
<luna> lotuspsychje: sorry
<tomreyn> hggdh: so what happens to the apt package. does it get more and more outdated? will it be removed? how do users using the apt package learn about the change?
<hggdh> and... more interesting. chromium-browser was installed as a snap, but (1) the package was not removed, and (2) there is no linking to the snap. As a result, I am still using the package, not the snap
<tomreyn> (i'm not sure you're the right person to ask about this, though)
<tomreyn> ah
<tomreyn> same thoughts :)
<hggdh> let me grab the apt log for this change
<tomreyn> which ubuntu version is this about? all supported? +1?
<pragmaticenigma> I'm guessing the 19 series at minimum
<hggdh> oh, it seems (for whatever stupid reason) I would need to restart after the snap was installed: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8v58VDktfB/
<hggdh> oing it now
<lotuspsychje> lets also try that
<lotuspsychje> hmm looks like its pretty responsive for a snap
<tomreyn> so that's on eoan only for now, ok
<hggdh> yes, restarting did the trick. I am now under the chromium snap (and the package is still installed)
<hggdh> mind you, this is on Eoan
<tomreyn> now do you file bugs about this migration path against the bug tracker apt packages use (launchpad), or the bug tracker snaps use (/dev/null)?
<hggdh> tomreyn: good question...
<tomreyn> well, tbf, eoan is unreleased.
<pragmaticenigma> twitter!
<tomreyn> ring the lara bell!
<hggdh> asked in #u-desktop
<tomreyn> are snaps x-platform actually?
<tomreyn> or rather, are there snaps fpr multiple platforms
<tomreyn> https://packages.ubuntu.com/eoan/chromium-browser lists amd64, arm64, armhf, i386
<hggdh> theoretically, whereever snapd is running, it would swallow a snap
<hggdh> and I got a response -- seems snap is still slightly broken on eoan, plus kernel bug. Known issuess, being dealt with
<pragmaticenigma> well... it's not even RC yet.. so that seems to be expected
<hggdh> aye. And I keep eating the dog food, as I used to do while Canonical
<tomreyn> oh and kernel mainline builds got fixed
<lotuspsychje> good night to all
<jeremy31> You can't leave, it isn't 2 am yet
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> its raining, all windows open
<jeremy31> It should be cooling it off there
<sarnold> hey lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey sarnold
<lotuspsychje> Weather report: Brussels, Belgium
<lotuspsychje>      \   /     Clear
<lotuspsychje>       .-.      28..29 Â°C
<lotuspsychje>    â (   ) â   â 13 km/h
<lotuspsychje>       `-â      10 km
<lotuspsychje>      /   \     0.5 mm
<sarnold> hahaha
<sarnold> nice
<sarnold> still far too hot for 2am of course
<lotuspsychje> at 0h44 yeah
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: oh heh, I'm noticing nickchanges to pragmaticenigma -- is that you too?
<lotuspsychje> no lol, pragma jokes around sometimes
<sarnold> aha ;)
<lotuspsychje> this is my i5 laptop and the nuc i7 for business
<sarnold> puff wanted to say thanks to pragmaticenigma the other day, so I've been waiting to see him return..
<lotuspsychje> thats the guy with intel device right
<sarnold> yeah
<jeremy31> It isn't 6 PM here and it is 26C
<lotuspsychje> you know what fixxed it?
<lotuspsychje> jeremy31: where are you?
<jeremy31> North Central United States
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: it was cruddy device, an older kernel worked :(
<lotuspsychje> cool
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: I mean, good it's fixed, but .. terrible solution :(
<lotuspsychje> sarnold: yeah i also adviced him to test things like 16.04.6, but that wiki he followed workedaround weirdly old kernel
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: sigh :( I wish more embedded people cared abouit supporting their stuff longer
<lotuspsychje> sarnold: wasnt ubuntu core a good idea for Iot & drones or so?
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: yes, I think so, especially for the userland update infrastructure
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: but if they don't put in the effort to get their out of tree drivers and so on into the upstream kernel, the'll probably eventually stop paying for enabled kernels for "last years" devices..
<lotuspsychje> but probably even then, he would need to add that intel ppa
<sarnold> depends how much they'd have embraced the snap lifestyle, heh
<lotuspsychje> sarnold: i want one of these: https://www.droneshield.com/how-droneshield-works
<lotuspsychje> free hardware :p
<tomreyn> the intel repo for this drone even had a custom systemd
<sarnold> tomreyn o_O
<tomreyn> yes...
<tomreyn> and there was kernel source, i think someone could even try making this work properly.
<tomreyn> but then they also stopped supporting the hardware in january, after 3 or so years.
<lotuspsychje> i adviced him to just try an updated 16.04.6 and start bugging from there
<lotuspsychje> see what issues he would bump into the official way
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: hah, this thing kinda looked like a way to lob a shovel at a drone, but it's some kind of radio thingy I don't understand https://www.droneshield.com/dronegun-tactical
<lotuspsychje> sarnold: sounds to me  like an electrical 'pinch' making some kind of shortcut
<sarnold> I have to wonder if it works only with certain vendors
<lotuspsychje> its more a frequency thing
<lotuspsychje> disable the connection that stop it to fly
<jeremy31> lotuspsychje: I thought you were going to sleep?
<lotuspsychje> no i was sleeping jeremy31 , but too hot
<jeremy31> lotuspsychje: air conditioning is worth every penny
<lotuspsychje> yeah i keep telling myself to buy an AC every year
<lotuspsychje> but in belgium we arent used for these temps
<lotuspsychje> usually its 3 weeks warm, then rainy
<lotuspsychje> i want one of those dyson air purifiers, but 600 euro
<jeremy31> lotuspsychje: join ##linuxmint and see if you can move in with Butterfly for the hot days
<lotuspsychje> jeremy31: i was looking at this lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk7CsCRz8Ns
<jeremy31> lotuspsychje: that doesn't do air conditioning
<sarnold> lotuspsychje: I've got one of these, it was not 600 eur :) https://camelcamelcamel.com/Coway-AP-1512HH-Mighty-Purifier-True/product/B00BTKAPUU
<lotuspsychje> sarnold: wow, big toy
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-26
<OerHeks> oh, https://techerati.com/news-hub/bt-turns-to-ubuntu-openstack-for-cloud-based-5g-core/
<aneon> hullo
<lotuspsychje> welcome aneon
<lotuspsychje> aneon: so, whats this discussion you want to talk about?
<aneon> hey
<aneon> when I install any visualization stack my system goes crazy
<lotuspsychje> aneon: can you detail what you mean with visualisation stack?
<aneon> I have lots of resource intensive important services running and I am not able to cope with 300% cputime situation
<aneon> ELK, splunk, etc
<lotuspsychje> desktop or server?
<aneon> I've built a machine learning for suricata and I want to see what it is doing for real
<aneon> server with KDE
<lotuspsychje> a 300% cpu kde server heh?
<lotuspsychje> running with ubuntu release?
<aneon> when I need to run the visualizers I kill the X and switch to tui
<aneon> Bionic
<lotuspsychje> aneon: what kind of specs?
<aneon> intel quadcore 6th gen, 16gb ram, 4 hdds, nvidia gpu
<daftykins> server and desktop in the same sentence, this cannot be
<aneon> people install DE on top of server
<daftykins> poorly misguided ones maybe
<lotuspsychje> lol
<aneon> when I want to use ELK or splunk I drop to tui
<aneon> I need to use DE for other reasons
<lotuspsychje> aneon: if you have issues setting up ubuntu server, try the #ubuntu-server channel
<aneon> guys who said misguided users probably doesn't use infrastrure for anything other than running ftp servers
<lotuspsychje> aneon: ubuntu server is meant for cli usage originally
<daftykins> far from it, FTP is a bit 90s
<aneon> I am looking for a tool for visualization of certain data
<aneon> using it as a cli most of the time but I need to use some other math stuff for work and the cli isn't useful for that
<daftykins> too vague.
<aneon> becuase you are shallow
<daftykins> hang on now, why are you making things personal here so quickly?
<aneon>  you did it
<daftykins> ...no
<aneon> anyway
<daftykins> are you going to apologise and get to the point?
<aneon> nope
<aneon> I dont apologize to spring chickens
<daftykins> well there's nobody here but us chickens
<aneon> if dont have any useful input then dont bother
<aneon> right now I am not able to process DPI due to 350% cputime so I am fairly pissed
<lotuspsychje> please mind your language aneon
<lotuspsychje> stay professional
<aneon> I am trying
<lotuspsychje> aneon: if i was you, i would go ask in #ubuntu-server whats your best build, a cli ubuntu-server or an ubuntu-desktop GUI for your use
<lotuspsychje> aneon: if you gonna mix both, you might get into trouble
<aneon> I will try that or post on old fashioned mailing lists
<lotuspsychje> mailing list to where?
<aneon> like I said when I start ELK or spluk I kill gui
<aneon> I will probably post everywhere
<lotuspsychje> you are mad your problem doesnt work, and you gonna randomly post it everywhere?
<aneon> yeah
<aneon> not on the lubuntu or other flavors but relevant ones for sure
<lotuspsychje> well we advice not to aneon, start from the start and get official ubuntu documentation first
<aneon> I have it already, this happens only on Ubuntu
<aneon> on FreeBSD there is no lag, cputime stays around 120%, I can handle that
<lotuspsychje> aneon: well maybe you are using ubuntu wrong way then, talk to the #ubuntu-server guys
<aneon> on SLES it is about 90-100% most of the time
<aneon> I don't think I am doing anything wrong, that is why I got here
<aneon> maybe the precompiled packages are the problem
<lotuspsychje> aneon: if you find a !bug in ubuntu file it
<aneon> some repo packages I can't use so I had to compile them with DPDK, hyperscan, cuda, etc
<lotuspsychje> aneon: well we dont support own compiling, thats where supports stops
<aneon> I will, doing a regex now for collecting information
<aneon> I know, I am not asking for support for whatever I have compiled, it works the way it should and beyond adding additional configurations I have not done much
<lotuspsychje> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ubuntu-19.10-July-Progress
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<hggdh> lordcirth: !hotspot added
<lordcirth> Cool!
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-27
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<luna> will be on a picture at Debconf today and tommorow
<lotuspsychje> doing what
<luna> lotuspsychje: just a selfie promised to help out at Debconf in Sweden in 2-4 years
<EoflaOE> hello lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE how are you?
<EoflaOE> I am doing fine
<EoflaOE> How about you lotuspsychje?
<lotuspsychje> all good here tnx
<EoflaOE> You are welcome
<TJ-> oh gawd, "cloud", NIH, == Canonical!! "...Your first five minutes with Multipass should give you a sense of how much fun it is to have a lightweight cloud handy ..." https://multipass.run/
<daftykins> what buzzword crap
 * hggdh is slightly confused. What about lxd?
<TJ-> Seems like Canonical is on a mission to capture customers with these multiple custom tie-ins
<TJ-> hggdh: lxd is the container strand whereas it looks like multipass is VMs
<TJ-> hggdh: but looks like the same command-line as lxc for lxd
<blackflow> TJ-: thoughts on zsys, another NIH by noobnonical to be used nowhere else but Ubuntu, and abandoned full of bugs and barely functioning, two years later?
<TJ-> abandoned? not seen that but the repo looks to be actively updated
<blackflow> give it time, it will be
<daftykins> :D
<TJ-> looks to be experimental from what I can see of the context
<OerHeks> the bloat, the bloat!  lolz ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7uL50zVZJA
<hggdh> TJ-: docs say it runs KVM on Linux
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-07-28
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EoflaOE> Hello lotuspsychje
<luna> morning
<EoflaOE> good morning
<EoflaOE> how are you?
<luna> alright
<EoflaOE> .I am doing fine
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<EoflaOE> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi EoflaOE
<EoflaOE> How was your day?
<BluesKaj> having morning coffee atm, how about you?
<EoflaOE> I am doing fine
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE
<EoflaOE> Hello lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: hows your UWN journey?
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Good
<EoflaOE> How about you?
<lotuspsychje> all good on this side tnx
<EoflaOE> You're welcome. Thanks
<BluesKaj> think I'll retire my rpi3, don't feel like mucking about with it atm
<lotuspsychje> you would love a nuc BluesKaj
<EoflaOE> BluesKaj: what is rpi3?
<BluesKaj> EoflaOE, https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-3-model-b/
<EoflaOE> BluesKaj: Looking for that.
<EoflaOE> You reminded me. I almost forgot about rpi.
<BluesKaj> it's only weakness is the microsd cards which don't last very long due to the many read/writes it has to handle
<EoflaOE> BluesKaj: OK.
<BluesKaj> I had mine booting from the sdcard with the / files on a hdd, but after the last upgrade it no longer boots
<BluesKaj> and I seldom use it anymore so I'll set it asibe for now
<BluesKaj> aside
<EoflaOE> BluesKaj: OK. I had one of my HDDs failed in 2018 because of 5 years.
<EoflaOE> On my old PC
<BluesKaj> the hdd here is ok , already checked it out
<EoflaOE> Nice. Now, I have 1 spare HDD running on my old PC with Lubuntu 19.10, and on my new PC, I am using VBox to run Ubuntu 19.10.
<BluesKaj> running Kubuntu 19.10 here on this pc
<BluesKaj> I don't bother with VMs
<EoflaOE> Very awesome.
<BluesKaj> yeah, been a Kubuntu tester for the last 10yrs or so
<EoflaOE> Nice. Since what Kubuntu version?
<BluesKaj> since KDE4, but I used Kubuntu for 3 or 4 yrs previous to that
<BluesKaj> think KDE4 was released in 2008
<EoflaOE> Nice. I discovered Ubuntu in 2012 when I was 8, and actually used it in 2016.
<BluesKaj> neat
<EoflaOE> Thanks. I also joined Launchpad and #ubuntu in that usage year.
<BluesKaj> not many bugs to report to launchpad on 19.10, it's very stable for dev OS
<EoflaOE> Yes. It just got more stable. When you were testing Kubuntu, are you reporting bugs?
<BluesKaj> sometimes, but usually one of the devs discovers them before I do
<EoflaOE> Nice.
<EoflaOE> BluesKaj: Do you know about irclogs.ubuntu.com?
<BluesKaj> yes, but my client keeps channel logs right in my home dir
<EoflaOE> My clients that I use keep logs, too.
<BluesKaj> irc client that is, Konversation
<EoflaOE> OK. I use the following clients: IRC for Android, mIRC (new PC, Windows), HexChat (old PC)
<luna> i always use irssi
<EoflaOE> luna: Nice, so irssi runs on the console. It is text-based. I have heard about it before, but used it for a few.
<BluesKaj> hey luna, irssi is handy in emergencies. if I can't get to the desktop, but I haven't needed it in yrs
<jeremy31> I use irccloud
<Talikka> I use irssi and ircclud free. I don't know which one is better. I am a traditionalist.
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.55.57 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 15 kB
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: what does this mean? Started Forward Password Requests to Plymouth Directory Watch.
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: it's a service
<lotuspsychje> never noticed that before
<lotuspsychje> Started Show Plymouth Boot Screen. this yes
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: see "systemctl cat systemd-ask-password-plymouth.path"
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<lotuspsychje> all kinds od weird things in his dmesg omg
<lotuspsychje> smells like a test pc, randomly install all kinds of stuff mixed
<lotuspsychje> apache, sql, clamav, bumblebee lol
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: sorry, i missed your question here
<lotuspsychje> no sweat tomreyn
<lotuspsychje> i was thinking along with that dmesg
<tomreyn> 31Â°C here, so yes, there's sweat ;)
<lotuspsychje> loll
<tomreyn> duo_ubuntu could certainly benefit from a more stretegic approach.
<lotuspsychje> sounds like the nutty proffessor-dev installing tons of things at the time he thinks of it :p
<lotuspsychje> then end up with a warzone pc
<lotuspsychje> i also do that sometimes, but hey we try to solve bugs sometimes
<tomreyn> it's ok to do this in a VM, but this is bare metal and seems to be his or her primary terminal
<lotuspsychje> welcome fromBeyond
<fromBeyond> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> fromBeyond: do you use gnome on 19.04?
<fromBeyond> lotuspsychje: yes. When I work, I am using i3wm, so I can use my OS and an IDE (arange windows, with vim, debugger, etc.), but otherwise yes
<lotuspsychje> fromBeyond: but your current ubuntu is an upgrade from 18.04 to 19.04 correct?
<fromBeyond> lotuspsychje: yes correct.
<fromBeyond> Perhaps i mispoke about gnome, because i am using gnome-terminal, and thought it implies "yes"
<fromBeyond> (i am a long time user of ubuntu, but i am far from an expert on it)
<lotuspsychje> fromBeyond: did you try a fresh install 19.04 to compare system with mac/win?
<fromBeyond> lotuspsychje: The difference i mentioned before, was present also in 18.04. Meaning that on my ubuntu machine, the benchmark was running at roughly the same speed (8-10ms). When I updated to 19.04, i didn't do a clean install, I just upgraded.
<fromBeyond> lotuspsychje: but on windows, the same benchmark runs at 18-20 ms
<fromBeyond> mentioned benchmark is purely computational, with multithreading
<lotuspsychje> fromBeyond: to upgrade like that its 18.04=>18.10=>19.04
<fromBeyond> lotuspsychje: I see. I did not know. I never upgraded before. I used 16 for a long time, than when i got a new machine i installed 18.04
<lotuspsychje> fromBeyond: can you tell us more of your system and its purpose? did you use gnome on 18.04 or i3 too?
<fromBeyond> lotuspsychje: I used i3 when working, and gnome otherwise
<TJ->  fromBeyond  as I said earlier *profile* the program on those systems, that'll show you where time is taken
<fromBeyond> my system is a dell xps 15.
<fromBeyond> TJ-: Yes, I arranged to get the profiles from windows in this time
<TJ-> fromBeyond: it could be due to the kernel's pre-empt/scheduling configuration, for example
<fromBeyond> (we all have same machines, but others run windows)
<fromBeyond> yes, i see
<TJ-> There's no point spending time guessing at random; collect data, analyse it
<fromBeyond> yes
<fromBeyond> all benchmarks i have ever ran from our codebase, always work quite faster on my ubuntu machine, than on theirs
<fromBeyond> recently i got the desire to understand why exactly this is happening
<fromBeyond> i will collect the datafrom their machines
<fromBeyond> lotuspsychje: my machine is a dell cps 15. It has intel i7. I write c++ code, for real time mesh processing.
<fromBeyond> I deal with algorithms, so all my benchmarks are purely computational (no graphics).
<fromBeyond> i tried the benchmark on gnome, and got the same result, just as fast as in i3. No significant difference
<lotuspsychje> fromBeyond: you said you used 16.04 in the past? how was that compared as benchmark
<fromBeyond> lotuspsychje: 16.04 was a bit slower on the benchmarks, but not significantly. But there is a difference.
<fromBeyond> will produce a graph, i have old results saved
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-20
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<M_aD> morning
<ducasse> good morning
<M_aD> good morning
<ducasse> hiya M_aD
<M_aD> hey ducasse :)
 * M_aD is about to hit the sack
<M_aD> chat later :)
<marcoagpinto> heylow
<oerheks> áâoá´ áá´oá´
<oerheks> hi marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> oerheks!
<marcoagpinto> >:) <- cola demon
<Bashing-om> UWN: Issue640 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue640 :D
<sarnold> zomg the last one was just like a few days ago
<Bashing-om> sarnold: Comes around too soonish :P
<sarnold> indeed
<sarnold> tell the passage of time that I don't like it
<Bashing-om> sarnold: I have so advised Mr.Time for my sake - I have been ignored :(
<sarnold> :(
<sarnold> thanks for trying
<sarnold> maybe we'll come to an udnerstand with mr time inthe future
<Bashing-om> sarnold: We are assured there is that possibility - in the meantime I do not cease my pleas to continue the current affairs  at a slower pace :P
<sarnold> Bashing-om: also I'd like every weekend to be a three day weekend :)
<Bashing-om> sarnold: Put your time in and there can then be 7 day weekends :P
<sarnold> Bashing-om: YAY! You're a genius :D I'll get right on that  :)
<Bashing-om> sarnold: LOL -  just pay it forward .
<sarnold> just got another 20-30 years left, depending upon how things go.
<daftykins> optimism \o/
<Bashing-om> Sunny Side Up :P
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-21
<Bashing-om> TJ-: IRT: lewie67[p] check /etc/netplan/ to see what the render in use is ?
<TJ-> Bashing-om: that was my next step :)
<Bashing-om> TJ-: Just checking my thought process :P - as I look over your shoulder.
<TJ-> hehehe we're all in the same boat with this stuff
<Bashing-om> TJ-: - lewie... : Maybe edit the file rather then delete ? sysop@x1804mini:~$ cat /etc/network/interfaces | nc termbin.com 9999 https://termbin.com/f2et . Looks to me that the local is needed.
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<M_aD> good morning :)
<M_aD> finally home after 11 hours of hard work
<ducasse> morning M_aD :)
<M_aD> hi ducasse :)
<lotuspsychje> hi M_aD
<M_aD> lotuspsychje: hey :)
<lotuspsychje> M_aD: you work at nights?
<M_aD> yep, nightshifts only. Working at a bakery
<lotuspsychje> aha hard labor
<lotuspsychje> dont say it too loud, oerheks might want roomsoesjes :p
<M_aD> lol... that i don't make though,
<lotuspsychje> wb M_aD
<M_aD> lotuspsychje, thanks. The Quassel Core i was connected to went offline and the one maintaining it is nowhere to be found and doesn't respond to the mails
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-22
<lotuspsychje> morning M_aD
<M_aD> morning lotuspsychje
<ducasse> good morning
<TJ-> daftykins: would you be able to do some more sleuthing for me about a Guernsey company?
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-23
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<M_aD> o/
<ducasse> good morning
<DarkTrick> Is there any chance, that Ubuntu will drop the naming in version (like "focal" or "eoan") and use number as official values instead? How could a newcomer now that disco or cosmic is older than eoan? If users are not too deep into Ubuntu, they would have to look it up all the time...
<oerheks> a,b,c,d,e,f ... pretty nifty choice
<DarkTrick> oerheks, interesting to know. It's like the math puzzles in 8th grade: find the sorting rule of the following numbers: 2 4 5 7 6 3 1 7
<lotuspsychje> the numbers are the years & month DarkTrick
<lotuspsychje> easy to remember?
<oerheks> !yy.mm
<oerheks> cool kids know this
<DarkTrick> important is, that it's rising numbers :)
<lotuspsychje> yeah evolution goes forward :p
 * lotuspsychje prays to irc gods to get back ubottu here 
<DarkTrick> not in every country
<lotuspsychje> DarkTrick: your country drops in year count?
<DarkTrick> ot: Japanese school grades: 1,2,3,4,5,6, 1,2, 1,2,3  1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3
<DarkTrick> after grade 6 you start grade 1 here
<DarkTrick> and yes
<DarkTrick> after year 31 comes year 1
<DarkTrick> Japan messes up that stuff, I'd love to not see it in CS
<DarkTrick> / cool kids know this ... ? :D
<marcoagpinto> The demon!
<oerheks> hi marco
<marcoagpinto> Hey
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: trolly day again
<lotuspsychje> invasion of the network & firewall issues
<leftyfb> nah, just completely unrelated questions
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-24
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Sven_vB> good morning :)
<M_aD> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<M_aD> o/
<marcoagpinto> Hello
<marcoagpinto> I am cured from the broken arm!!!! The medical committee said I could make the hand movements well! "You are excellent!"
<marcoagpinto> and they even read loud a few words from the letter my doctor wrote to them
<marcoagpinto> the social security has such a wonderul team in Portugal
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-25
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<M_aD> good morning
<marcoagpinto> morning
<oerheks> mir 2.0 \0/
<oerheks> https://github.com/MirServer/mir/releases/tag/v2.0.0.0
<daftykins> nooooo
<oerheks> and more Wayland https://lupyuen.github.io/pinetime-rust-mynewt/articles/wayland
<oerheks> it is not dead, Jim.
<oerheks> hi TJ-
<TJ-> hiya :) how's support these days!?
<tomreyn> it's a weekend, doesn't that say it all? ;-)
<leftyfb> gotta love the wannabee "hacker" we have there at the moment
<oerheks> great, lovely questions, and leftyfb is really good today
<oerheks> grinn
<oerheks> pssst, privacy
<TJ-> you're welcome to join me... worked three 36 hour days in the last week!
<tomreyn> umm, no, thanks
<tomreyn> TJ-: how's your education platform doing? working fine technically, yet?
<oerheks> oh no .. i do 48 hr shifts only
<tomreyn> i was taking part in the corbet session on the state of the kernel lately, run with big blue button.
<tomreyn> there were some stutters, but for the amount of people it was really good.
<TJ-> tomreyn: we've been diverted by CoViD somewhat, but my guineau-pig test apprentice is doing well on the prototype programme
<tomreyn> ah, makes sense.
<TJ-> tomreyn: I'm still buried in physical build-out - knocking down walls, putting up new walls, installing new bathrooms, new training kitchen, digging out rampant bamboo, and much much more!
<tomreyn> ooof. you'Re doing everything yourself?
<TJ-> without distractions over weekend I'm focusing on techy stuff; ironing out some kernel bugs in 5.8rc6 with our Turris Mox gateway devices
<tomreyn> is mox the omnia 2.0?
<TJ-> tomreyn: mostly; couldn't get trades-people and/or materials on the terms I was happy with. But the physical is my tonic from the techy focus
<tomreyn> i hope those 36 hour shifts aren't filled with building work
<TJ-> tomreyn: no, it's a proper extensible gateway router
<tomreyn> oh yes i think you told me about the mox before
<TJ-> tomreyn: I got high on paint fumes Thursday night/Friday morning :)
<tomreyn> well, some fun at least ;-)
<TJ-> On our mox we've added 3x 8-port Gigabit LAN, SFP, mini PCIe+SIM, 4x USB3
<tomreyn> sim for backup internet access then, i guess? does it failover in both directions automatically?
<TJ-> Turris OS comes with kernel 4.14 but in testing 5.8 with Debian 10 discovered the Marvell hardware switch is eating DHCPv6 solicit packets from clients because they're sent to a multicast group and the marvel switch isn't being configured to pass them onto the CPU in 5.8
<TJ-> tomreyn: depends on how we configure it. Turris OS is based around Openwrt, but we're really pushing the envelope so using mainline kernel and Debian
<tomreyn> woohoo, nice
<TJ-> I've added 2 NVME M.2's RAIDed via USB3<NVME> adapters to provide NAS ... with 24 managed ethernet ports, the WAN uplink,  all in a really low power budget
<tomreyn> and the cpu can cope with it, ram is enough?
<TJ-> Additional network services primarily on RasPis wit Raspbian ... and all our power-hungry kit on 'standby' attached to network-controlled power distribution units so it can be automatically powered up/down based on demand
<TJ-> tomreyn: yes
<TJ-> It's in front of 3 cabinets of equipment
<daftykins> TJ-: \o
<tomreyn> hehe
<TJ-> daftykins: !!! :D
<TJ-> daftykins: did you see my message the other day?
<daftykins> TJ-: yep i even fired you an email to ask what you wanted me to find out
<TJ-> daftykins: did you? I really need to check them then!!
<daftykins> hehe
<TJ-> just found it! sorry - I have so many domains to work with now for business I forget my personal. Now all I need do is recall what/who it was I wanted sleuthing :D
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> it's extremely wet today in the English Channel so it's handy i don't have to check anywhere out just yet...
<BenderRodriguez> daftykins: don't complain
<BenderRodriguez> it's hot and humid again today
<oerheks> :-)
<oerheks> 1 year ago, i slept outside during a heatwave, 40'C ...
<TJ-> it's not urgent - but our local council has a subsidiary that has apparently employed a 'wealth management' company that is opaque and won't reveal details so one of our concillors has asked if I can dig some more info on them
<daftykins> TJ-: do you know which one? i feel like i might need to borrow your 007 ID...
<leftyfb> oerheks: what makes you say they are running kali? They said 20.04 earlier
<oerheks> futurich ?
<leftyfb> yeah. I know they're doing really bad and stupid things. That's a given. Basically trying to make Ubuntu into kali so they can do stupid things. But I don't think they are running kali
<leftyfb> thank god, they left
<TJ-> daftykins: I've emailed you full details
<daftykins> "this email will self-destruct in 30 seconds..."
<TJ-> speed reader test :D
<daftykins> it's like when a client brings you a laptop to fix with no adapter
<daftykins> lol, one of those addresses is beside me and another is right next to my parents house where i grew up
<daftykins> sec gonna look at the one right by me, i bet it's the windows i can see from my seat here
<ducasse> the benefits of having a local agent
<ducasse> we're everywhere!
<TJ-> hehehe
<TJ-> meantime I'm trying to make ssh_config not require a IPv6 link-local "Hostname" with the %${INTERFACE_NAME} suffix !
<daftykins> TJ-: pics in email ;)
<TJ-> daftykins: woo hooo!
<TJ-> daftykins: my colleague is extremely impressed and now thinks I run agents all over the world :D
<daftykins> xD
<ducasse> TJ-: tell him/her "we are legion"
<daftykins> TJ-: i could check out the other address sometime too, it's just along the seafront here
<TJ-> ducasse: maybe I should get her to listen to the audiobooks (I've got them all!)
<TJ-> daftykins: thanks... I'd wait a while; we're trying to get more confirmation from the councillor that we have the correct target
<daftykins> TJ-: ah okie dokie :)
<daftykins> i shall await further instructions from my handler *whistle*
<TJ-> :D
<TJ-> She says she hopes you've got your big Mac, hat and dark glasses on :D
<daftykins> hehe "just out walking the cat"
<TJ-> :P
<ducasse> daftykins: send mischief in the window to steal files
<daftykins> best fit her with the latest model of MiaowPro camera
<tomreyn> leftyfb: i think you missed the 1000km accuracy indication on maxmind ;)
<leftyfb> tomreyn: I didn't use maxmind. But from his reaction, looks like it was pretty damn accurate
<tomreyn> apparently so, yes :)
<tomreyn> maybe you used something using the maxmind data, though
<tomreyn> https://www.maxmind.com/en/geoip-demo is what i use
<leftyfb> lynx -dump http://ipaddress.ip-adress.com/$1|egrep 'City|State|Country'|egrep -v 'Communications|Code|Subnet'
<leftyfb> been using that same script for a good 10 years now
<tomreyn> it doesn't seem to say what the data source is
<tomreyn> actually it does: https://www.ip-adress.com/service/ip-location-database
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-07-26
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Maik_aD> good morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there Maik_aD
<lotuspsychje> picked a new nick?
<Maik_aD> yup
<lotuspsychje> not at work today baking bread?
<Maik_aD> one night off  :)
<Maik_aD> but apparently the timetable will be adjusted next week so that I am off for two nights in a row
<lotuspsychje> oof
<lotuspsychje> bakers life is hard right
<lotuspsychje> all to please those customers with roomsoesjes you need to work your ...off
<Maik_aD> and if they switch it again we need to have a talk, i'm not a puppet
<Maik_aD> lol, yep
 * Maik_aD blames oerheks
<Maik_aD> :P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> oh no, the kali thread again.. :p
<Maik_aD> going to watch some tv and finish this bottle of wine
<lotuspsychje> cheers
<Maik_aD> thanks, been a while since i actually drank alcohol
<lotuspsychje> i bet
<ducasse> good morning
<oerheks> hi di hi ducasse
<Maik_aD> ducasse: good morning
<ducasse> \o oerheks Maik_aD
<DarkTrick> Why do we actually need a desktop linux OS?
<DarkTrick> Wouldn't all the energy be better focussed on customizing Windows or OS X instead of trying to bake another OS?
<oerheks> LoLz ..
<oerheks> and wait for updates, once a month?
<oerheks> and pay, register, the need of antivirus ...
<tomreyn> no source code, most of all
<oerheks> security by obscurity
<daftykins> they don't restrict updates to once a month
<daftykins> yeah it's a proprietary product, you can't just work on some other company's OS
<daftykins> that's an extremely basic and poorly thought out argument
<oerheks> sure they do, 2nd tuesday, right?
<daftykins> but if something is serious enough then they do out of band updates too
<daftykins> with the many ubuntu servers i manage, i've been getting seriously sick of how often they push regular kernel updates throughout a week, it'd be much nicer if it were limited
<daftykins> so there are pros and cons either way
<tomreyn> ubuntu has a schedule, too
<tomreyn> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/StableReleaseCadence
<DarkTrick> about a month ago there was a kernel update, that froze my computer every 5 minutes for 10 to 20 seconds
<daftykins> don't really feel like reading through that to get an idea of how they intend to release them
<DarkTrick> I cant remember the last time Windows did that
<daftykins> all updates though can just be peppered along a week, pretty frustrating when you handle a bunch of boxes
<DarkTrick> sure, Win and OS X have problems, but I recently feel, that Ubuntu has problems on a much lower level
<daftykins> it's been called macOS for several years now btw
<DarkTrick> e.g. it takes days to find anything close to mspaint... and even that doesn't work properly (regular crashes)
<DarkTrick> daftykins, had a 50:50 chance with OS X. I knew either of one was the correct one :D
<daftykins> this sounds very much like your own system, nobody else is coming in support saying so
<DarkTrick> Maybe because most of the people gave up?
<daftykins> lol no
<DarkTrick> Aunt Tully woulnd't use irc
<daftykins> she also wouldn't embrace Tux
<DarkTrick> don't get me wrong btw., I'm not trying to rant. I'm merely trying to find some sense in the last years I spend for linux
<DarkTrick> I want to get on fixing bugs but I feel like I'm to busy getting a running system
<DarkTrick> So the question: why spending millions of hours on linux ... which is ... Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xunbuntu, Suse, lalala
<daftykins> you must have a hardware incompatibility somewhere or not know what you're doing, then
<DarkTrick> for servers, sure, but as desktop?
<DarkTrick> well, I plug it in
<DarkTrick> maybe that's the problem :D
<daftykins> plug what in, power? riiiiight
<DarkTrick> usb mic
<daftykins> you're really peppering us with your issues there
<DarkTrick> perhaps I got too much into detail.
<daftykins> from the outside here's your thought process as it appears to me
<daftykins> "i couldn't get x working, had a problem with y... so why does this OS even exist?"
<DarkTrick> yeh, perhaps I should've ordered my thoughts first :/
<DarkTrick> It's more like this: "We're working on getting a filemanager - a "problem" "solved" years ago, while people are starving or held slaves"
<daftykins> no idea which desktop you think is searching for a file manager
<DarkTrick> hm...again, this is merely an example
<DarkTrick> take the hibernation feature instead
<daftykins> irrelevant, it's been disabled on most modern OSs
<daftykins> or at least - hidden
<sonicwind> hey Maik_aD
<Maik_aD> sonicwind: hey
<Maik_aD> i still need to find a way to stay logged in on irc so can check in from work durng my breaks.
<jeremy31> Maik_aD: bouncer
<Maik_aD> maybe turn the old netbook into a server with quassel core on it
<Maik_aD> jeremy31: tried it once, didn't work out well
<jeremy31> I use irccloud, works on my phone and linux computers
<Maik_aD> i'll have a look, thanks
<lotuspsychje> or just showup oldskool style :p
<jeremy31> Mirc?
<lotuspsychje> lol jeremy31
 * lotuspsychje slaps jeremy31 with a very large trout
<jeremy31> Don't be mean to trout
<lotuspsychje> sorry pushed the wrong mirc button
<jeremy31> I think that is even in irccloud
 * jeremy31 slaps everyone around a bit with a large striped bass
<lotuspsychje> haha
<lotuspsychje> they are just toying with us again
<Maik_aD> lotuspsychje: futurerich?
<lotuspsychje> a lot of nicks in the weekend
<lotuspsychje> they join by gangs and invent some fictive issues to troll
<lotuspsychje> it needs a bit of training to recognize them
<jeremy31> An outbreak of trolls?  Call the WHO
<lotuspsychje> lol
<jeremy31> wear a mask and wash your hands
<Maik_aD> lotuspsychje: i know, seems they have nothing better to do
<lotuspsychje> i'd rather call gandalf the grey, instead of WHO sauron :p
<Maik_aD> lol
<Maik_aD> right... time to get ready. See you in the morning.
<lotuspsychje> work em Maik_aD
<Maik_aD> thanks
