#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-13
 * bhale pokes Hobbsee with a pointy stick
<ajmitch> careful there...
<bhale> :/
<ajmitch> how's it going? haven't seen you around for awhile
<bhale> ajmitch: its all good, I travel like a mad man
<bhale> ajmitch: you?
<ajmitch> busy with work, clients driving me mad, etc
<ajmitch> nothing out of the ordinary
 * Hobbsee pokes bhale back
<bhale> San Diego was lovely, beats my usual destinations
<bhale> whats up Hobbsee ?
<Hobbsee> bhale: well, i dist-upgraded my server, and part of it's exploded, so...
<bhale> oops
<bhale> my desktop did that yesterday, turned out to be bad blocks
<bhale> I cleaned it up
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: do you get to keep all the bits?
<Hobbsee> ajmitch: yeah, seems so
<ajmitch> so what part exploded? uninstallable stuff, or everything segfaulting with a bad filesystem?
<bhale> mine refused to start X, I found out the fs was mounted RO with errors
<bhale> it seems like I lost power the week I was away
<bhale> although the drive would have been idle for days and ext3 usually doesn't have this sort of problem
<ajmitch> idle except for daily cron jobs?
<bhale> not much there besides apt-get update and updatedb
<ajmitch> updatedb or find takes quite awhile on my desktop
<bhale> yeah mine is getting pretty sad
<bhale> its only got 512mb
<ajmitch> mine only has 4GB, but far too many files
<bhale> struggles to run a few tabs in FF
<slomo_> mvo: gnome-app-install needs to provide the gstreamer-codec-install alternative and needs to accept gstreamer-codec-install as argv[0] ;)
<mvo> slomo_: thanks, is it gstreamer itself that has changed and now call gstreamer-codec-install instead of gnome-codec-install? what sync/merge brought in thiose changes?
<slomo_> mvo: one of the gst-plugins-base syncs brought this change... the installer is now called /usr/bin/gstreamer-codec-install which is an alternative provided by gnome-codec-install in debian
<slomo_> mvo: as ubuntu only has parts of the new codec installation stuff gnome-app-install needs to get this small change for this release ;)
<slomo_> seb128: please sync gst-plugins-bad 0.10.8-3 from experimental... and only this version, not 0.10.8.2-1 ;) is this possible?
<seb128> slomo_: can sync any source which is available on the mirrors, is that the case for this one? and why not the new version? ;-)
<seb128> slomo_: what about the new good?
<slomo_> seb128: well, the new good and bad are pre-releases... except a small regression in flvdemux(from -bad) that will be fixed with next pre-release they should be good
<slomo_> if you want them, take them :) but i can't guarantee that the releases will be before intrepid release (but they should be end of the week or monday)
<seb128> slomo_: we have a running bug about dvd playing not working in intrepid at the moment do you know about that?
<slomo_> yes, this will be improved by 0.10.8-3 and newer (i've uploaded -3 for the dvd bug)
<seb128> ok
<huats> morning everyone
<slomo_> seb128: do you want the bad/good pre-releases? in theory we could get the real releases into intrepid-updates, no?
<seb128> slomo_: not sure about any of those, depends how much unstability they can bring, it's late for changes in intrepid, stable updates are limited to bug fix versions usually
<slomo_> seb128: the releases will only have regressions fixed and cosmetic changes compared to the pre-releases so that part should be fine
<seb128> right, the question is to know if upgrading to the current candidate will give something better than what intrepid has
<seb128> ups
<seb128> mvo: !!!!
<slomo_> seb128: i know a few files that don't work with the stuff in intrepid but work with the pre-releases ;) well, IMHO it should be an improvement at several places and the only known regression will be fixed with the next pre-release in the next two days
<seb128> ok good, I'll do the syncs then
<seb128> mvo: closing xchat-gnome tabs accidentally again, I blame you ;-)
 * mvo runs from seb128
<seb128> mvo: ;-)
<seb128> pitti: how do I check the tzdata dst for a timezone?
<pitti> seb128: zdump -v Europe/Berlin
<pitti> seb128: and grep/look for the year you are interested in
<didrocks> morning
<huats> hey didrocks !
<didrocks> hi huats :)
<seb128> pitti: zdump -v Europe/Brussel has only 1901 and 2038?!
<seb128> pitti: trying to look at bug #281956
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281956 in tzdata "evolution uses wrong date to switch to daylight saving timezone in timezone Europe/Brussels" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281956
<seb128> arg, typo
<seb128> the intrepid tzdata looks correct
<didrocks> seb128: I think this bug can be linked: bug #43644
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 43644 in gnome-system-tools "time-admin shows different time zone when it is restarted" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43644
<seb128> grrr, wrong focus again
<seb128> didrocks: no
<seb128> didrocks: that's a tzdata issue
<seb128> is there anybody using hardy there?
<seb128> huats: hey ;-)
<didrocks> yes, I have it in a VM :)
<huats> seb128: in the glom update (I am working on it right now), we are currently taking the bdeps for maemo, which is useless I think. Don't you think I can safely put a disable-maemo
<huats> ?
<huats> hey seb128 :)
<seb128> can you "zdump -v Europe/Brussels | grep 2008"?
<huats> I am here
<huats> I am doing
<seb128> huats: dunno about the maemo build if that's useful you should ask the #ubuntu-mobile guys if they are the one who added that there
<didrocks> seb128:
<huats> nobody add it, it is the defalt...
<didrocks> Europe/Brussels  Sun Mar 30 00:59:59 2008 UTC = Sun Mar 30 01:59:59 2008 CET isdst=0 gmtoff=3600
<huats> http://paste.ubuntu.com/56950/
<pitti> seb128: hm, I really doubt that Brussels has different DST rules than the rest of europe?
<didrocks> oupss, huats as already done it :)
<pitti> last Sunday in March and October, that looks just fine to me
<seb128> pitti: it doesn't, I'm trying to understand this bug
<seb128> huats: not sure, if it's not useful don't build using it?
<huats> seb128: I am asking on -mobile :)
<glatzor> morning mvo
<glatzor> mvo, what is your plan regarding bug #281606?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281606 in gnome-app-install "codec installation doesn't work anymore since gstreamer uses a different helper script" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281606
<mvo> glatzor: its fix commited
<glatzor> mvo, do you want to rename gnome-codec-install to gstreamer-codec-install or patch gstreamer?
<mvo> glatzor: I upload in a sec, I added the alternative patch and renamed it
<glatzor> mvo, ui great
<mvo> done
<mvo> glatzor: I guess you need to update packagekit now as well, right?
<glatzor> mvo, so gstreamer0.10-packagekit no longer has to conflict with gnome-app-install
<mvo> glatzor: yes, just update the alternative
<glatzor> mvo, In the ppa version I just shipped alternatives for both (gnome|gstreamer)-codec-install
<glatzor> :)
<mvo> aha
<didrocks> seb128 & mvo: what do you thing about my commentary and tests on bug #212098. Do we only make a SRU for hardy?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212098 in nautilus-share ""easy" file sharing not notifying about logout/login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212098
<seb128> didrocks: not sure, pre-adding the user is an ubiquity workaround apparently
<seb128> didrocks: would be nice to fix in hardy in any case right
<didrocks> seb128: if someone else can confirm my test for intrepid, it would be great (yes, it's maybe ubiquity which make it and not smb-client)
<didrocks> but ok, I will do the trick for hardy
<seb128> didrocks: we discussed it some days ago and it was pointed that the first user was added to the group but that was an ubiquity workaround, is that true of any admin user?
<glatzor> bye mvo, I have to leave for work!
<didrocks> seb128: as I told in my test, I tried to add a second admin user (with user and group GNOME tool) and this one was added to the samba group as well (so, no, it's not an ubuquity trick, the admin profile seems to contains the sambashare group)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> didrocks: are you sure that's not only because users-admin automatically add users to this group?
<didrocks> seb128: I do not know very well how the "profile" in users-admin work actually
<seb128> didrocks: you can switch to the groups tab to see what groups are selected
<didrocks> seb128: ok, I will confirm that this afternoon (currently installing intrepid beta on this computer)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> time for lunch here bbl
<didrocks> have a good lunch :)
<seb128> thanks, you too
<crevette> hello there
<crevette> who should I contact about a pwc/v4l2 regression?
<crevette> is there a chan/person dedicated for such problem, I would like debug that to open a bug report
<seb128> crevette: try rather #ubuntu-devel, you might want to try to ping kees when he's be around
<seb128> crevette: lut
<crevette> salut seb128
<crevette> merci
<seb128> crevette: could you look at bug #282325?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282325 in nautilus-sendto "nautilus-sendto doesn't support Obex Push file transfer anymore" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282325
<crevette> it is shame that it was working fine 2 weeks ago
<crevette> okay I'll try
<seb128> crevette: thank you
<seb128> I should really get some bluetooth phone or something
<crevette> seb128: it is working fine for me
<seb128> crevette: ok, so you can test now? ;-)
<crevette> I pickup all the phone of the people around to test
<crevette> and when I package it was working fine
<crevette> pckaged
<crevette> packaged
<seb128> crevette: thanks for your work on those btw
<crevette> no problemo, I was happy to have bluez 4 in intrepid
<crevette> perhaps the phone capabilities in nautilus-sendto doesn't detect well those supported by it's phone
<crevette>  phone detection capabilities
<seb128> I've no clue about bluetooth debugging
<seb128> do you know if there is a command line call to try to see if the issue is a obex one rather?
<seb128> fta, Keybuk: would be nice to update cairo to 1.6 before intrepid, did any of you has a clue of what to do since they dropped the lcdfilter changes?
<huats> seb128: regarding the bakery update, james_w is asking me if I have a FFe :)
<huats> not sure that the answer seb128 knows about it is enough :)
<seb128> huats: I would say it can wait for intrepid+1 now since that starts being quite some updates
<huats> seb128: ok
<crevette> seb128: I did a sponsoring request for nemiver also
<seb128> crevette: right I read the mails about this one
<seb128> huats: don't bother too much, those updates are not important for intrepid, upstream just like to have current versions available
<seb128> but bakery is not really useful without the other updates
<huats> seb128: I know...
<huats> but at least the work is in LP which is way safer than my laptop :)
<crevette> seb128: should I do a FFe for nemiver
<huats> seb128: I also have the goocanvasmm package now which is ready (I just need to fill correctly the copyright file)
<huats> I'll put it on REVU as soon as package can be built on jaunty
<Keybuk> seb128: does the old patch not apply from 1.4 ?
<Keybuk> if not, I would prefer us to wait until the next release when we'd have time to work to keep the patch
<Keybuk> we shouldn't do upstream version updates this close to release if it means losing functionality
<Keybuk> we have resource from David Mandala's team available to help us rework the patch, it might be worth asking lool if he can spare anyone's time to look at it
<Keybuk> might be worth asking mvo if he's interested in looking at it?
<Keybuk> (and has the time)
<seb128> Keybuk: I need to check if the old patch applies, we also have the option to use the new patch they dropped before 1.6
<seb128> Keybuk: mvo has lot to do already
<Keybuk> did you ask him? :p
<Keybuk> I'm not suggesting he doesn't, just that it might interest him
<Keybuk> (it might not)
<seb128> Keybuk: and I didn't suggest dropping the patch but I would really prefer to avoid staying on an unstable version, 1.6 has some bug fixes that would be nice to get in intrepid and that would avoid upstream tensions
<Keybuk> I understand, is why I suggested some people who might be able to help out getting the patch to apply to 1.6 so we can update it
<seb128> Keybuk: no I didn't be I pinged him with some other things already and he replied ETOOMUCHTODO
<Keybuk> ok, try asking lool - his team are officially "nothing to do" afaiui
<seb128> Keybuk: ok thanks, will try to see if fta or lool are interested to work on this one
<Keybuk> lool himself might not have the time, but someone on his team might
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> lool: hello ;-)
<Keybuk> seb128: also might be worth posting a general "HELP!" to ubuntu-devel{,-discuss}/desktop and seeing if any community member wants to give it a go?
<seb128> Keybuk: that's worth trying, I would just prefer to have somebody having a clue doing the update just before intrepid rather than sponsoring changes I've no real clue about made by some community member who might have no real clue about those either ;-)
<Keybuk> I'm more than happy to review any diffs that come in
<seb128> Keybuk: I'll wait for fta's reply first, since he did the previous updates
<Keybuk> being on the ML, I'd see them at the same time you do
<seb128> Keybuk: ok noted, thanks
<mvo> Keybuk, seb128 what patch is this?
<seb128> mvo: the cairo lcdfilter
<Keybuk> mvo: the lcdfilter patch to cairo, that sets the freetype lcd filter setting based on the fontconfig xsetting
<Keybuk> it's based on an original patch by David Turner: http://david.freetype.org/lcd/
<seb128> mvo: we had it as a distro patch for some cycle, they commited something similar upstream during 1.5 and reverted for 1.6 because they figured that the patch didn't match their quality standard and they wanted to roll 1.6
<Keybuk> which we extended to support the fontconfig stuff
<Keybuk> part of it went upstream, then came back out again
<mvo> hm, I'm indeed pretty busy and would prefer someone else taking it if possible
<Keybuk> ok, np
<seb128> mvo: don't worry, I'll see if fta is interested he did the previous cairo updates
<lool> seb128: What package do you need help for?
<lool> tell me it's not pygobject/pygtk
<seb128> lool: cairo, but speaking about pygtk apparently the debug variant is broken again, bug #282320
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282320 in pygtk "import gtk:- undefined symbol: Py_InitModule4" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282320
<seb128> lool: cairo, we had it as a lcdfilter distro patch for some cycle, they commited something similar upstream during 1.5 and reverted for 1.6 because they figured that the patch didn't match their quality standard and they wanted to roll 1.6
<seb128> lool: so we want the lcdfilter change and 1.6
<seb128> lool: I'm waiting for fta to reply to my ping since he did the previous cairo update
<didrocks> seb128: so, I confirm, when you want to create a new user and choose the "Administrator" profile, you get the "Share files with the local network" privilege which corresponds to adding you to the sambashare group
<seb128> didrocks: ok what I though
<didrocks> so, appart from the target cases I described (special cases corresponding to advanced use), there is nothing to perform for intrepid. But a SRU for hardy is needed
<seb128> right
<lool> Ok, found the pygtk issue
<seb128> lool: cool ;-) what was it?
<lool> PYTHON_INCLUDES="-I${py_prefix}/include/python${PYTHON_VERSION}"
<lool> in configure.ca
<seb128> grrrr, this focus issue starts being really annoying
<seb128> lool: ah, I see
<lool> we're really luck that the current m4 macro works, it relies on the "Refs" output to match between two runs
<lool> Pff another xvfb failure again,
<fta2> seb128, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18500998/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-hppa.xulrunner-1.9_1.9.0.3%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> hi fta2, when did it try to build?
<fta2> just now
<seb128> fta2: I would not bother about hppa, it's usually lagging behind a lot
<seb128> fta2: did you read the conversation about cairo before?
<fta2> seb128, hm, no
<fta2> seb128, about 1.8.0 ?
<seb128> fta2: to summarize updating to 1.8 would be nice, do you want to do the update? ;-)
<fta2> seb128, i wanted to do it but the lcd patch needs a decision
<seb128> fta2: which one?
<asac> fta2: could you also talk to vlad about performance with xul + cairo 1.8.0?
<seb128> fta2: is it hard to undo the commit they did to drop the patch?
<fta2> should we keep the patch as of 1.7.6 or reuse the one we had up to 1.7.4
<asac> not that we push a heavy impact bug if its known and maybe there is a hack/fix or something :)
<fta2> seb128, afaik, 1.8.0 is just 1.7.6 with the all the lcd patches reverted, so it's easy
<seb128> fta2: they didn't fix any other bug?
<fta2> seb128, i'll recheck but 1.8.0 appeared just a few days after 1.7.6 once they decided the lcd patch was too ugly
<seb128> fta2: they did a lot of commits apparently during those days, anyway have 1.8 not dropping lcdfilter would be nice ;-) was the patch we had before working better?
<seb128> or working differently?
<fta2> seb128, it was different, but working better with our customized fontconfig. I changed fontconfig accordingly, but it's still slightly different, depending who you ask
<seb128> fta2: do whatever is easier, I would say use whatever we have now in 1.7.6
<fta2> ok, that was my preferred choice too
<lapo> hi
<crevette> hey seb128,
<crevette> ca s'en va et ca revient ?
<seb128> re crevette
<crevette> :)
<crevette> seb128: need an advice to build a package with debug to track the problem with nautilus-sendto
<seb128> crevette: just edit debian/rules to add the configure option you want
<crevette> hmm not that way
<crevette> I want to write code to add debugging statement
<crevette> should I put the resulting package in my ppa or this is not wanted
<seb128> crevette: edit the code directly or use cdbs-edit-patch to create a patch in the debian directory
<crevette> should I put a suffix like ~debuild1
<pedro_> pitti: if you have a time, may you look at bug 269651 , it has a few dups already
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269651 in consolekit "console-kit-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in g_str_hash()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269651
<pitti> pedro_: I couldn't really make sense of it either, but as a first step I'll report it upstream
<pedro_> pitti: ok, thanks ;-)
<Laney> Hey, bug #263026 has recently been resolved upstream. I'd like to backport the fix if it applies cleanly. What do people think?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263026 in file-roller "Intrepid regression: opening archive on remote directory fails with "Operation not supported"" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263026
 * pochu waves hello
<james_w> Laney: hey
<james_w> Laney: how intrusive is it?
<Laney> james_w: It doesn't seem very, just small patches to two files
<Laney> james_w: See http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/file-roller?view=revision&revision=2515
<Laney> But most of the changes are renaming of variables
<james_w> Laney: looks like a one-line change to me, excluding the renaming.
 * Laney nods
<james_w> Laney: should be fine to pull it in, assuming it's not dependent on a port to GIO or something
<Laney> I am testbuilding it to see
<Laney> james_w: What did Windows do to my debdiff, btw?
<Laney> I literally copied it to public_html, saved it in IE and then attached it to the bug :(
<Laney> line endings, I presume
<james_w> it was z:/something/debdiff
<james_w> and then line-endings, yeah
<Laney> bah
<james_w> until the line-endings I thought you might have just been playing a joke
<Laney> Saving a file should *not* change it in any way
<Laney> Well I left it building and then went to campus, and tested/uploaded once I got there
 * Laney strops
<Laney> in other, positive, news, the file-roller fix is good \o/
<Laney> Patch is up there if anyone's interested
 * Laney moshes
<james_w> :-)
<Laney> YES
<Laney> My pet gnome-terminal bug has been fixed \m/
<Laney> we have have have to get this
<Laney> Will new gconf schemas be imported automatically (by the packaging)?
<crevette> Laney: which one ?
<Laney> crevette: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=548600
<ubottu> Gnome bug 548600 in Keybindings "Can no longer configure keyboard shortcuts for switching tabs" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]
<Laney> hallelujah, it works
<james_w> seb128: hey, are you still working? Do you have a couple of minutes for gnome-session stuff?
<seb128> james_w: I'll close IRC soon but ask your questions, I'll tell you if that's rather something for tomorrow
<james_w> seb128: I've got a patch to add a third logout dialog with all the options, it's pretty easy, and doesn't change any existing behaviour.
<seb128> cool
<james_w> :-)
<seb128> james_w: sorry, still this compiz issue which send key events to the wrong dialogs
<james_w> that must suck
<seb128> I keep closing things on other workspaces
<seb128> yeah, the focus stay on workspace when switching to an another
<james_w> firstly, I'd like to know where to propose this change, would http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507101 be a good place?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 507101 in general "New UI for logout/shutdown dialogs" [Minor,New]
<seb128> anyway, you were saying, you got a working patch which doesn't change the current dialogs?
<james_w> or a new bug, or a mailing list?
 * dobey just doesn't use compiz :)
<seb128> try asking to vuntz but when we discussed that he said that upstream was not interested by having one dialog listing everything
<seb128> though having the option should not be an issue if that's not used by default
 * dobey agrees with the not having one dialog listing everything sentiment
<seb128> that's some extra code to maintain but should not complicated
<james_w> ok, I'll talk to him, thanks.
<seb128> you're welcome
<james_w> my other question was about what happens when you press the power button
<james_w> at the moment if you have g-p-m preference set to "ask me" then it asks you if you want to log off or switch user when you press the power button
<dobey> pressing the power button to change users seems rather odd to me :)
<james_w> I believe g-p-m asks gnome-session to do this via libSM, a I correct?
<dobey> i don't think it's via SM, but i think it does just open the log out dialog
<seb128> james_w: it uses the gnome_client_* calls to display the session dialog
<seb128> 		gpm_info_explain_reason (manager->priv->info, GPM_EVENT_NOTIFICATION,
<seb128> 					_("GNOME interactive logout."), reason);
<seb128> 		gnome_client_request_save (gnome_master_client (),
<seb128> 					   GNOME_SAVE_GLOBAL,
<seb128> 					   TRUE, GNOME_INTERACT_ANY, FALSE, TRUE);
<dobey> yeah
<james_w> seb128: that's what I had found, I just get lost trying to follow it through to see what gets triggered at the other end
<seb128> james_w: something in gnome-session, try looking to gsm-xsmp-client.c
<Laney> Is something special done with gconf schemas? I'm patching one for this gnome-terminal fix but the new version doesn't seem to be getting installed.
<james_w> seb128: ah, I see it this time I think, it's done with signals.
<james_w> Laney: what do you mean by "installed"?
<Laney> james_w: Well, I don't see the new version in /usr/share/gconf/schemas
<james_w> Laney: I believe the files are just installed there as normal files
<james_w> Laney: are you patching it from debian/patches?
<Laney> yes
<james_w> what's the patch system?
<james_w> have you added it to debian/series or whatver?
<Laney> cdbs, and yes the patch is being applied
<james_w> good start :-)
<james_w> Laney: extract your built .deb and check the file contents
<Laney> It's not there - hence my question
<Laney> The existing version has translations in it, so I'm wondering if some magic happens
<james_w> ooh, maybe
<james_w> seb128: ok, making it show the shutdown dialog wouldn't be hard, but I don't know if that would lead to unexpected behaviour elsewhere, do you? Do you showing the shutdown dialog would be better?
<seb128_> james_w: my internet disconnected apparently, what did you read or write after that?
<seb128_> <james_w> seb128: that's what I had found, I just get lost trying to follow it through to see what gets triggered at the other end
<seb128_> <seb128> james_w: something in gnome-session, try looking to gsm-xsmp-client.c
<seb128_>  hum, no, that's rather the code handling the clients
<seb128_>  
<seb128_> james_w: gsm-manager.c on_xsmp_client_logout_request()
<james_w> ah, missed that bit, I was figuring it out for myself :-)
<james_w> once I had I asked
<james_w> <james_w> seb128: ok, making it show the shutdown dialog wouldn't be hard, but I don't know if that would lead to unexpected behaviour elsewhere, do you? Do you showing the shutdown dialog would be better?
<seb128_> that's something worth raising upstream I think
<Laney> seb128_: Do you know anything about gconf schemas - specifically if updating them in new package versions requires anything special? I'm trying to patch gnome-terminal but the new version doesn't get installed.
<dobey> Laney: did you change the .schemas file, or .schemas.in?
<seb128_> Laney: did you patch the .schemas.in correctly?
<Laney> I patched the .schemas.in
<seb128_> Laney: if those are debian changes be carreful .gconf-defaults in the debian directory are used before schemas
<Laney> They're upstream changes
<seb128_> did you try on a new user or did you unset you settings?
<seb128_> if the application write user key you will not pick new system defaults
<Laney> I don't see the new version in /usr/share/gconf
<Laney> (nor in dpkg --contents)
<seb128_> what do you mean?
<seb128_> what change do you try do to exactly?
<Laney> Shouldn't it be installed there?
<Laney> I'm including an upstream patch which adds (back) some keys to the schema
<seb128_> Laney: is it installed in the current version?
<Laney> There's a schema in there already, yes
<seb128_> Laney: btw thanks for backport changing but don't bother backport stable GNOME changes, 2.24.1 will be in intrepid
<seb128_> s/changing/chnages
<dobey> you're saying the file doesn't exist? are you looking at the right package?
<dobey> Laney: ie, gnome-terminal-data instead of gnome-terminal?
<Laney> seb128_: Hm, how do I know which are going to be in .1 and which will be in 2.25?
<james_w> seb128: yeah, I'll bring it up upstream, just wanted to know if you could think of anything I was missing.
<Laney> dobey: Oh. Yes, that might be it ;)
<seb128_> Laney: look if it has been commited to gnome-2-24 if there is one or trunk
<dobey> heh
<Laney> dobey: Didn't sbuild with -A
 * Laney runs
<dobey> there you go.
<Laney> (although, shouldn't gnome-terminal depend on -data = ${Source:Version}?
<seb128_> Laney: the bug fixes will likely go to next stable tarballs
<dobey> Laney: the version number didn't change in your build perhaps?
<Laney> it did
<dobey> the version changed, or the -0ubuntuN changed?
<seb128_> Laney: no, usually we use >= rather, strict depends create issues during updates between i386 and other archs
<Laney> Ah, it depends on gnome:version rather than source:version
<seb128_> enough for today see you tomorrow
 * Laney rocks out
<Laney> nice one dobey
<dobey> james_w: it's probably best to fix it so that there is some way to request either dialog, rather than having only one dialog be usable
<Laney> the gnome-terminal fix isn't on the 2.24 branch
<Laney> I hope it'll still get in as the bug is very very irritating
<james_w> dobey: true
<dobey> james_w: you probably don't want gnome-session-save --kill to bring up the shutdown dialog, but instead the log out dialog (or rather, it should probably have --logout and --shutdown options instead)
<james_w> it does now
<dobey> oh?
<james_w> that was changed recently because --kill was confusing apparently
<james_w> --shutdown-dialog and --logout-dialog
<dobey> ah. do both options do the same thing?
<james_w> I propose adding --combined-dialog
<james_w> no, one shows the shutdown dialog, the other the logout dialog :-)
<dobey> if they already behave differently, then the code probably already allows doing either one, so patching gpm to use the shutdown dialog instead (matching the gnome-session-save code), would probably be good :)
<james_w> yeah, the problem is that gpm doesn't directly call gnome-session
<dobey> anyway, i should try to finish what i'm working on
<james_w> seb pointed out where the call comes in, so you could change that, but I don't know what else will make that sort of a request
<dobey> james_w: well, you could just make it g_spawn_command_line_async ("gnome-session-save --shutdown-dialog"); :)
<james_w> heh :-)
<dobey> later :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-14
<seb128> hello there
<crevette> hey
<mvo> hey seb128
<seb128> lut crevette
<seb128> hello mvo!
<crevette> salut seb128
<BugMaN> hi all
<huats> morning everyone !
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> how are you seb128 ?
<seb128> huats: got a cold but otherwise good, you?
<huats> the same :) (a cold and good) :)
<glatzor> mvo, please take a look at this: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/app-install-data-ubuntu/+pots/app-install-data
<glatzor> mvo, the desktop files should not be translated in app-install-data
<mvo> glatzor: why not?
<glatzor> mvo, because the translation of the desktop file in the original package and the one in app-install-data should be the same
<mvo> glatzor: right, I agree, but not all package use "GettextDomain=" in their desktop file for example
<mvo> glatzor: so e.g. /usr/share/app-install/desktop/emacs22.desktop can never be translated
<mvo> because it does not have inline translations nor a gettextdomain in the original file
<mvo> glatzor: or is there a better approach that I'm overlooking here?
<glatzor> mvo, you should just ship the desktop files with the in-file translations
<glatzor> mvo, if a project doesn't ship a translated desktop file it is perhaps not translated at all.
<mvo> glatzor: we do ship inline translations too, but for some desktop files (e.g. the emacs example) there are none
<glatzor> mvo, this should be fixed in emacs.
<glatzor> mvo, we are talking here about 3000 not translated strings
<glatzor> mvo, this means a lot of translator resources. do you plan to extract the translations and send them upstream?
<mvo> emacs is just a example, there are quite a few packages that do not ship translations in the desktop file. what is the problem with the untranslated strings? that people start working on them and do not work on the more important ones?
<glatzor> mvo, it is a dead end for the translations
<mvo> what is the alternative? I'm not confortable with leaving the 3000 strings untranslated in the UI. I got the patch from someone who wants to translate this for his derivate
<glatzor> mvo, you should at least communicate this to the translators.
<glatzor> mvo, take a look at the recent posts at the ubuntu-translators list
<james_w> hey glatzor
<glatzor> hello james_w !
<mvo> glatzor: ok, I will check that out. sorry that I haven't done so from the beginning
<james_w> glatzor: I'm going to apply for a standing freeze exception for packagekit, do you mind?
<mvo> glatzor: forwarding to upstream> I can write a script that does that and merges the translaions into the desktop files quite easily, most work will probably to find the contact adresses where to sent the translations to
<glatzor> james_w, great. thanks.
<glatzor> mvo, the desktop files will be created at build time in most cases
<glatzor> mvo, so forwarding the desktop file is not a real solution
<mvo> glatzor: well, both can be done relatively easily, a po file snippet and a desktop file merge. so that people who properly build it can just merge the po and people who maintain it manually benefit too. I don't think thats is going to be very hard, I think contacing upstreams is going to be more work
<mvo> don't get me wrong, I'm not 100% happy with putting this big dump of strings into rosetta, its really far from ideal, but I don't see a alternative other than ignoring the problem
<seb128> mvo: what is the discussion about exactly?
<glatzor> mvo, what is about the synchronisation problem with the translation of the corresponding package which could also exist in Rosetta?
<mvo> seb128: gnome-app-install uses strings from the desktop files of the packages. those strings are not all translated and g-a-i now has a way to add them
<mvo> glatzor: shouldn't rosetta suggest the strings then?
<seb128> mvo: would be nice to have a way to translate menu entries too, quite some packages add .desktop in the debian directory which have no translations and doing source upload for every translation change would just not work there
 * mvo nods
<glatzor> see you guys!
<slomo> seb128: did anything bad happen after syncing good/bad from experimental? i mean, any evil bugs or something :)
<seb128> slomo: no new bug reported since the update which is good ;-)
<seb128> hey pedro_
<pedro_> salut seb128!
<Laney> seb128: Erm, the file-roller upload ftbfsed
 * Laney hides
<seb128> Laney: I fixed it already
<Laney> right, sorry about that
<seb128> Laney: that's my fault, I did some tweaking in the source to see why you changed the menu patch without documenting the change
<Laney> Oh, it was just a quilt refresh
<seb128> Laney: right, next time don't refresh patches or write that you did so somewhere, that makes debdiff confusing to read otherwise
<seb128> diff of patches are no fun to read ;-)
<seb128> I had to apply the patch to make sure it was not changing the content
<Laney> seb128: Sorry. I mentioned it in the comment but didn't think it warranted saying in the changelog
<seb128> that's alright
<seb128> but there is no real point to refresh patches you don't touch in a revision update
<Laney> I guess. Just wanted to tidy it up
<Laney> ah well
<Ng> mvo: have you seen any issues with compiz when switching workspaces of focus not being transferred to a window on the target workspace?
<Ng> only seems to have started in the last few days
<mvo> Ng: seb128 reported the issue, but I have no (reliable) way to reproduce - do you have found one?
<Ng> well it seems to happen on basically every workspace switch I do - want a dump of my config?
<seb128> mvo: want to try something?
<Ng> although hrm, sometimes it does work
<seb128> mvo: assign a keybinding to go to workspace 1
<seb128> mvo: change workspace, select something on screen and do the keybinding
<seb128> mvo: and see if whatever you have on workspace 1 is selected
<seb128> I don't get the bug when using ctrl-alt-arrows nor the mouse
<seb128> but I get it every time I do a alt-number to switch
<seb128> mvo: try to map super-n to a workspace for example if you can
<mvo> seb128: trying now
<seb128_> hum
<seb128_> mvo: did you change something recently?
<mvo> seb128_: sorry, works for me
<seb128_> it works for me now, I had the bug still yesterday and just dist-upgraded today
<mvo> I'm happy to debug this, I'm just at a loss how to reproduce it
<seb128> mvo: I'll keep watching for it ;-)
<mvo> thanks
<mvo> Ng: let me know if you find a way
<seb128> mvo: I though you were getting it the other day?
<mvo> I did, but it was not reliable, pure chance
<mvo> I did a bunch of switches and had it
<mvo> then I tried again and never got it again
<Ng> mvo: basically what seb said, but something about it is unpredictable
<Ng> I *always* switch workspaces with alt-F1 to alt-F4, so I'm seeing it quite a lot
<Ng> (and I have terminals, mail and firefox on separate workspaces, so I switch a lot)
<Ng> it's happening for me most of the time, but sometimes the focus switches properly
<mvo> Ng: could you file a bug please? I will look at it when I'm finished with my current task
<Ng> sure
<seb128> mvo: similar to what Ng said in my case too, I have IRC always on a workspace so I switch a lot between this workspace and other using keybindings (not the ctrl-alt but direct shortcuts for each workspaces)
<Ng> mvo: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/283215
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283215 in compiz "[intrepid] switching workspaces with absolute keybindings not always shifting focus" [Undecided,New]
<mvo> thanks Ng
<Ng> np :)
<seb128> slomo: bug #283176 could be due to one of the gstreamer updates
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283176 in gstreamer0.10 "gst-launch-0.10 crashes with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283176
<asac> mvo: whats the state on apturl support for third party repos in intrepid?
<mvo> asac: unchanged, noone came up with a schema that is somewhat secure
<mvo> asac: the code is there, its a matter of flipping a swtich, but the consequences are probably too risky
<fta2> seb128, asac: i have cairo 1.8.0 ready, but i'm concerned about the corruption seen by some users: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=946574
<fta2> seb128, asac: debian extracted a patch for cairo from the mozilla tree: http://glandium.org/blog/?p=209
<fta2> seb128, asac: should I add that to 1.8.0 too ?
<seb128> fta2: how can those users have an issue using 1.8 if 1.8 has not been uploaded yet?
<seb128> fta2: or is the issue orthogonal to the update?
<seb128> ie, is the update creating an issue
<fta2> seb128, no, it's not 1.8.0, it's in all cairo versions
<seb128> ok, so you are just asking if you should add the workaround?
<fta2> yes
<seb128> do you know if the change has been discussed upstream already?
<asac> fta2: where is the patch? i only have seen binary blobs from glandium still
<fta2> upstream mozilla sure, it has been done by vlad, which is also a core-dev in cairo
<asac> fta2: ask vlad what he thinks about the impact then :)
<fta2> asac, mike said he diffed the in-source cairo, so it's the same patch i pointed you weeks/months ago
<asac> maybe its a mozilla specific solution
<asac> fta2: ok. i understand. thats a more advanced variant of the bandaid isnt it?
<fta2> yes
<asac> with not that many features disabled as before
<asac> we should definitly ask him
<asac> to at least assess the risk
<seb128> fta2: has this patch been commited to cairo git and if not why not?
<fta2> seb128, no, but i don't know why. i'll ask vlad
<fta2> seb128, asac: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/gfx/cairo/buggy-repeat.patch
<seb128> is that the change we dropped just before 8.04.1 because it was slowing down things a lot for users?
<seb128> you guys added a buggy repeat workaround before hardy too
<fta2> sure but it was inconditionnal, now, it's smarter
<asac> seb128: he?
<seb128> asac: he!
<asac> seb128: we never claimed a workaround would be regression free ;)
<fta2> that's mozilla bug 456467
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 456467 in GFX: Thebes "revisit cairo xlib buggy repeat handling" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=456467
<asac> it was just curing more than hurting. anyway. i am against doing stuff now. our default dont show this behaviour
<seb128> asac: I accepted the workaround previous time and it took us ages to figure that created real slowness issue for quite some users
<seb128> asac: I'm not wanting to take an another cairo workaround without having upstream commenting on it first ;-)
<asac> seb128: i cant remember that it took ages to figure that out. it was just not reproducible for us ... that was all i think.
<asac> seb128: thats what i am saying
<asac> seb128: previous workaround was also discussed upstream
<seb128> asac: right, that was bug #219587
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 219587 in cairo "03-turn_on_buggy-repeat_handling.dpatch causes slowdown in Evolution" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/219587
<asac> seb128: we knew that it might have some impact. but general issues turned out that for some it was harder than expected
<seb128> asac: right
<asac> seb128: still ... at the point of the patch we had no other choice. after investigating we found a x workaround which then made the patch droppable
<seb128> asac: just saying that I would avoid adding workarounds so soon before intrepid if we don't have a real need for those
<asac> only point i am trying to say: if we hadnt found the X workaround we probably wouldnt have dropped the patch ;)
<asac> seb128: yes. i dont see the real need for this patch now
<seb128> ok good
<asac> but maybe i am just not on top of bugmail
<seb128> fta2: let's update to 1.8 now and discuss the workaround later
<asac> could be that chipsets see this issue again
<tedg> seb128: So I've got a patch to GNOME Panel which removes the shutdown/logout from the system menu if the FUSA applet is in the panel.  I'm guessing I need some sort of exception for that patch.  If so, what kind should I be asking for?
<fta2> seb128, ok, so no patch. i'm done then.
<asac> fta2: seb128: i think first thing to do would be to go through bugs and see if this is an issue for our users at all ;)
<seb128> tedg: I'm against a such patch
<seb128> tedg: I use both the applet and the menus
<asac> the shutdown/logout thing isnt finished yet, right?
<seb128> asac: it is
<asac> urgh.
<pitti> uh, different menus depending on which applets you have installed? how confusing
<asac> i still ahve the green man and nothing else on my panel :(
<seb128> asac: did you upgrade recently?
<asac> almost every day
<asac> let me check
<dobey> pitti: indeed
<seb128> asac: you should have get a bubble light in the notification area asking if you want to migrate your configuration
<asac> seb128: on my laptop i had the "shutdown" button reappear i think two days ago
<asac> seb128: yes. that notification thing disappeared for me
<asac> and i didnt know how to get it back
<tedg> seb128, pitti: Well, mpt is very much against having two ways to logout.  He's flying right now, so we can't really get his input.
<seb128> tedg: I'll not make those menus change dynamically when adding an applet or remove it, that's confusing as pointed by pitti and I use those items and I'm probably not the only one
<seb128> tedg: we can discuss making it a gconf key though
<fta2> seb128, http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/cairo_1.8.0-0ubuntu1.dsc http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/cairo_1.8.0-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<pitti> seb128++
<pitti> what's wrong with having extra ways to log out?
<pitti> g-p-m has offerend suspend/resume for ages, and nobody complained
<seb128> pitti: looks like people prefer having an empty system menu ;-)
<pitti> and so did ctrl+alt+del, or pressing the power button, or closing lid, etc. pp
<seb128> fta2: thanks
<pitti> or ripping out the plug :)
<tedg> pitti: I think that mpt hasn't had time to file all the bugs he'd like to ;)
<dobey> pitti: so we should hide shutdown from the menus if the system has a battery, and the icon is shown? :P
<tedg> pitti: In general, the problem is that it's easier to have "a way" to do things -- simpler explanation.  While different ways are okay, two menus are a touch odd.
<pitti> tedg: exactly my point; the only thing which is currently guraranteed to be there is the systme menu
<dobey> tedg: the problem is that to every person who has ever used windows or mac os, that "way" is the menus
<pitti> if we wouldn't have it any more, our documentation would need to say "look if you have this, or if not, look ---> there, etc."
<tedg> dobey: Yes, and we are maintaining that.  Just the FUSA menu instead of the System one.
<dobey> tedg: like they say in retail... location location location :)
<dobey> i especially don't think "shutdown" makes sense under "list of users"
<pitti> well, I think it's great to have the option there, but that's new in intrepid
<seb128> you can't assume that users will know about the fusa because they just upgraded
<seb128> those using the menu will just wonder why they can't close their session and press the power button
<tedg> dobey: The idea is to more have "all status and session stuff" in one menu.  Shutdown is really a session operation with a power plug thrown in.
<seb128> tedg: users will not know that, especially if they are used to the old switch user applet
<dobey> i don't think that's an appropriate assumption really
<seb128> they will never look there
<tedg> seb128: Well, I think that a large number of users clicked on the "big red button in the corner" -- which will still be there.
<seb128> they will just remove the power plug and complain
<dobey> what happens if fusa crashes?
<dobey> and the main menu is open?
<seb128> tedg: I do use the applet only for user switching and the menus for logout etc, you consider that not as a valid usecase?
<dobey> logout/shutdown suddnely appear/disappear?
<tedg> dobey: No, unfortunately not.  But, if FUSA crashes it will get a prompt to reload.
<tedg> seb128: Personally, I don't care.  But the UI theory here is that there should be "one way".
<dobey> modifying the main menu based on the context of an external applet is just bad ui
<tedg> dobey: It's not context.  It's modifying the menu based on the configuration of the panel.
<seb128> tedg: ok fine, add a gconf key to hide the menu items and enable it by default
<pitti> tedg: but by removing logout from the menus, we are exactly destroying the only reliable "one way" (menus) we currently have
<seb128> tedg: but don't do your dynamic configuration depending on the layout because nobody will understand what's going on
<dobey> we already have multiple ways to log out/shutdown
<tedg> pitti: It's as reliable to say that the menus will be there as the FUSA applet will be there.  People can remove the menus too.
<tedg> seb128: The problem there is that if we enable it by default, and someone doesn't have the FUSA applet, then they will have no menu items anywhere!  So, I think the GConf key should be "disable if FUSA applet."
<seb128> tedg: it's not obvious to guess why menu items just vanished because you changed your applets configuration
<dobey> if you somehow wish to coax users into using your preferred way, that's fine, but you shouldn't force them out of their preferred ways
<seb128> tedg: I'm against a such patch then, the system menu doesn't have to many items and users will expect those actions there
<seb128> s/to/too
<seb128> let's wait for mpt to be there
<tedg> Sounds good.  I'll open a bug.  Everyone can comment there.
<tedg> BTW, considering there is unlikely to be a "System" menu in the future, coaxing them away from it isn't about being "preferred" it's about migrating them to where things are going.
<pitti> tedg: I disagree; fusa applet is nowhere near guaranteed to exist for upgrades
<tedg> pitti: Correct, and that's why the patch looks for it before removing them from the system menu.
<seb128> tedg: there is still a system menu though and as long there is one some users will expect system actions to be there
<pitti> tedg: yes, I understand; but still there would be "two half-true ways", not one
<tedg> pitti: But, the menus aren't guaranteed either for upgrades.  More likely, but not guaranteed.
<seb128> tedg: what we do when the system menu is deprecated is an another topic
 * dobey thinks the whole panel concept needs to be deprecated
<pitti> tedg: but if someone removed logout from the system menu, he certainly uses a different way; which we cannot assume for the vast majority of people who didn't customize their system menu
<seb128> brb switching computer
<dobey> arbitrary content in something so important as the panel is the bane of usability
<tedg> dobey, pitti, seb128: http://live.gnome.org/Boston2008/GUIHackfest/WindowManagementAndMore
<dobey> yeah
<dobey> how very macin-vista
<dobey> heh, that's another thing i hate... using the term "Quit"
<dobey> it's really unfortunate that i couldn't be at the hackfest/summit
<seb128> fta2: what was the cairo update url?
<seb128> anybody having the url fta2 gave some time ago for the cairo update?
<dobey> seb128: the mozilla blog thing?
<pitti> uh, poor panel (looking at above URL)
<seb128> dobey: no, the diff.gz and .dsc for 1.8
<dobey> oh
<dobey> 10:16 < fta2> seb128,  http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/cairo_1.8.0-0ubuntu1.dsc  http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/cairo_1.8.0-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<dobey> seb128: there
<seb128> dobey: thank you
<pitti> what's the point of having a single "Activities" thingy? that's just going to increase the length of the click path for everything?
<fta2> seb128, oops, sorry (i'm on the phone)
<dobey> seb128: you should look into using screen+irssi :)
<seb128> fta2: that's ok, I changed box to do the cairo build and testing but I didn't note the url before ;-)
<dobey> pitti: i don't know
<dobey> pitti: i'm as confused as you are :)
<seb128> dobey: that or having an irc proxy running somewhere
<dobey> yeah
<pitti> znc++
<dobey> i think i'm going to set up a private jabber server soon, with transports, for my IM, so i can be connected to everything from multiple machines
<dobey> still have yet to find a good jabber client for my phone though
<dobey> i guess i should update my linkedin profile now
<tedg> pitti: Not really.  Currently you have to click on "Applications" -- no real difference clicking on "Activities"
<tedg> bug #283278
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283278 in gnome-panel "When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in "System" menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283278
<dobey> hrmm. linkedin is totally triflin. why does it send me to the company page for "Canon, Inc." when i search for "Canonical"
<mvo> asac: did you upload the fix for network-maanager so that it does not show the "resource missing" dialog anymore?
<mvo> seb128: I get the evo alarm notifier error on pretty much each test upgrade, do you think I could simply kill it before the upgrade?
<mvo> or disable it in some way temporarely
<seb128> mvo: shouldn't we rather try to figure what the issue is?
<seb128> mvo: I guess that stopping it before upgrade would work but some users might expect to still get their meeting, etc notifications during upgrade
<seb128> mvo: and it'll be automatically restarted if they are running evolution for example
<asac> mvo: no i have to do that. thanks
<mvo> asac: ok, just checking (because I have seen it just some minutes ago :)
<asac> yeah
<asac> sorry
<mvo> seb128: yeah, I have little clue about evo :/
<asac> i will try to upload that today. just want to check if we need something else for the "release candidate" upload :)
<mvo> asac: cool, thanks
<seb128> bbl
<Ng> mvo: do we have http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/app/compiz.git;a=commit;h=46e4aa0308fe542f2586835e86ee249ebea6fafb in our compiz packages? Seems like it makes GIMP2.6 nicer
<Ng> but I dunno if there are wider implications
<mvo> Ng: if its not part of 0.7.8 we don't have it, but if upstream thinks its a good idea, I can take it, I have a lot of faith in them :)
<Ng> I came across it in a discussion about gimp2.6 and how compiz sucks at handling its toolbar windows, I have no further reason to assume/believe/think it's a good idea ;)
<mvo> Ng: ok, I will inquire tomorrow
<Ng> :)
<mvo> pitti: what is the current status with camera/gio/fuse and gthumb? I get "An error occurred in the io-library ('Could not lock the device'): Camera is already in use." when opening gthumb
<pitti> mvo: right, we just fixed f-spot in that regard
<pitti> but actually we wanted to disable automounting of libgphoto cameras
<pitti> and get back to gthumb/f-spot talking to the cam directoy
<pitti> directly
<pitti> otherwise they are unbearingly slow
<mvo> pitti: aha, cool. thanks for this update
<mvo> pitti: do we know why its slower? is fuse slow? or the gvfs implementation?
<pitti> mvo: neither, it's f-spot making wrong assumptions
 * mvo nods
<pitti> mvo: e. g. with direct libgphoto it downloads the thumbnails
<pitti> mvo: with the fuse path, it downloads the full images, produces a thumbnail, and throws away the image
<pitti> mvo: thus presenting the import dialog takes like 5 minutes
<pitti> and then you download them all over again
<mvo> right
<james_w> tedg: hey, you around?
<tedg> james_w: Yes, but I'm playing with an experiemental window manager -- I may disappear ;)
<james_w> heh :-)
<james_w> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=550817 was the bug that I mentioned earlier
<ubottu> Gnome bug 550817 in gnome-power-manager "gnome-power-manager segfaults with low battery" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
<james_w> it's got a link to the Ubuntu bug
<james_w> tedg: also, chrisccoulson has an interesting bug report
<chrisccoulson> hi tedg
<james_w> chrisccoulson, meet tedg, he's the expert on all this
<chrisccoulson> good stuff!
<tedg> james_w: Yes, so hughsie likes the patch -- yeah!  That makes life easier.
<james_w> always :-)
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Nice to meet you.
<chrisccoulson> when i hit the power button on my machine, g-p-m seems to open the logout session dialog on every logged-in users desktop (including all inactive users)
<chrisccoulson> unfortunately, the upstream session dialog has a 60s timeout, which logs you out automatically if you dont respond
<chrisccoulson> that means that all inactive users get logged out automatically after 60s if i accidentally hit the power button,because they aren't available to respond to the session dialog which appears
<tedg> Hmm, that's odd.  Are you using the GPM in my PPA?  While that's probably a GNOME Session bug -- the PPA version may work around it.  It uses the DBus interface instead of the XSMP one.
<chrisccoulson> i'm using the standard gpm at the moment
<chrisccoulson> i'll try your PPA version, although I probably won't get a chance straight away
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Okay.  The normal GPM is just using XSMP -- which shouldn't connect to all sessions, but there may be a bug in GNOME Session.
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Hopefully, as I get everyone's patches in, I'll upload that GPM here shortly.
<chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll try that out
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-15
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hello pitti
<pitti> seb128: can we attack the libgphoto automounting today? what needs to be done for this? (I can take the f-spot changes in any case, but I'm unsure about the gvfs change)
<seb128> pitti: sure, let me do the gvfs change
<pitti> seb128: ok, merci; once that's in, I'll look after f-spot
<seb128> pitti: uploaded
<pitti> wow, that was quick *hug*
<seb128> ;-)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<pitti> I'll let it hit the archive, and until then continue to attack the sponsoring queue
<pitti> I managed to cut quite a dent into it
<seb128> I noticed the uploads, good work there ;-)
<mvo> seb128, eh, that was cheating, right? you had the change prepared already ;) ?
 * seb128 slaps mvo
<seb128> mvo: no but I looked at it yesterday and knew what to change ;-)
<pitti> seb128, mvo: did either of you already look into the patch in bug 159996 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 159996 in gnome-control-center "Appearance Preferences offer Visual Effects without installed Compiz" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159996
<seb128> pitti: mvo did, he commented on the bug and the new patch has only been added yesterday
<pitti> right
<pitti> just wondering who should look into it now
<seb128> the new patch looks correct
<seb128> mvo: do you have any gnome-control-center pending upload?
<seb128> pitti: mvo or I will do it
<pitti> ok, thanks; I'll grab other stuff then
<mvo> seb128, not right now, but I had the patch on my list of things to look at for today (that list is growing at a alarming rate)
<seb128> mvo: ok, it's probably a quick one so I'll not steal if from you ;-)
<mvo> not sure if "stealing" is the right word here :)
<mvo> but I'm fine looking at it
<seb128> mvo: I'll do that sponsoring now
<seb128> mvo: I want to change the scrollkeeper to rarian depends there too
<mvo> seb128, what does the new version of the patch do? set the tab to insensitive? or set the hbox/vbox with the effects buttons insensitive?
<seb128> mvo: set the tab to insensitive, do you think that's not the right way?
<mvo> seb128, no sure, if the tab text "visual effects" can still be clicked and the content of the tab is still visible then I think that is the right fix (the content is all insensitive)
<seb128> mvo: ideally it would give some clue about why it's insensitive too
<mvo> seb128, just checked the new patch, I think its looks good
<seb128> mvo: ok, so do you want to upload it or should I? ;-)
<mvo> yeah, ideally it would offer to install compiz
<mvo> go ahead, if you have it locally anyway
<mvo> I would have to download it first etc
<mpt> pitti, hi, did you write "Cowboy ui_download_start() to take an alternative title for the progress window, so that we can abuse it for other progress dialogs"?
<slomo> mvo: did you fix gnome-app-install already? ;)
<seb128> slomo: do you know if bug #119861 is a known issue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 119861 in gstreamer0.10 "error on playing swf" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119861
<seb128> slomo: the example attached to the bug still gives an error on intrepid
<slomo> seb128: known problem, gstreamer can't handle swf... only very very few are working with gst-ffmpeg
<pitti> seb128: shall I grab bug 245166 now, or are you working on a gdm ATM?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 245166 in gdm "configuration in man page" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/245166
<seb128> slomo: gst-ffmpeg bug?
<seb128> pitti: feel free to do it, there is an another gdm sponsoring request waiting too
<pitti> seb128: oh, bug 264834; will look at that as well
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264834 in gdm "RFE: Add gesture to start onboard and mousetweaks at login (patch supplied)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264834
<slomo> seb128: more a ffmpeg bug... i don't think gst will support swf in any usable way until someone makes a swfdec/gnash plugin for gstreamer :)
<seb128> pitti: thanks
<seb128> slomo: ok I'll reassign it then, thank you
<mvo> slomo, yes, monday IIRC
<asac_> lame question, but how can i make a screenshot of menus using the gnome user-experience ;)?
<mvo> asac, use the screenshot thing and give it a delay (or gimp with a delay)
<asac_> cant be the right approach to install ksnapshot to take a timed snapshot ;)
<asac_> mvo: so gimp is the only way?
<asac_> (do do that through ui)
<asac_> s/do do/to do/
<seb128> asac_: applications, accessories, screenshot?
<asac_> heh
<asac_> obvious
<asac_> what i used was the snapshot applet ;)
<seb128> there is a snapshot applet?
<asac_> i think so. i dont have it anymore because i couldnt make it snap with a delay
<mvo> seb128, not on windowmaker ;)
<asac_> hmm ... seems to be not in the default applets anymore
 * mvo hides from seb128 
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<asac_> sorry for the noise :)
 * mvo hugs seb128 
<seb128> mvo: did you fix the compiz focus bug yet btw? ;-)
 * seb128 runs
<mvo> *cough*
 * mvo hides again
<seb128> mvo: it seems to not happen immediatly but once I start getting the issue it's consistent, I just need to figure what triggers it
<seb128> mvo: I usually get it quickly when normally use my laptop, but normal use is lot of basic actions so hard to figure which one triggers the bug
<seb128> mvo: what there many changes between the snapshot we had and 0.7.8 which could create a such bug?
<seb128> mvo: maybe I should try to bisect the changes
<davmor2> asac: just drag the snapshot menu item to the panel works for me :)
<mvo> seb128, could you try unloading the animation module and see if that helps?
<asac> davmor2: hehe
<mvo> seb128, I suspect its there somewhere, but I'm not sure
<seb128> mvo: will do
<asac> see how rudimentary my daily live is ;)
<seb128> I'm on my desktop right now which doesn't run compiz
<mvo> seb128, if we can isolate the plugin that causes it, half the work is done
<asac> just terminal, terminal, firefox, nm applet :) ... all day long ;)
<davmor2> asac: Seriously you just get an icon on the panel that act like the applet does but you can set timer ect
<davmor2> s/ect/etc
<asac> davmor2: i just didnt know about the menu item ;)
<davmor2> :)
<Ng> seb128: yeah that matches up with what I'm seeing, it doesn't happen to begin with, but then becomes pretty much constant.
<Ng> seb128: out of interest, do you use sloppy focus?
<seb128> Ng: what is this sloppy focus thing? ;-)
<Ng> seb128: hey, if you have time to click in windows before you use them, that's great ;)
 * Ng ducks
<Ng> I've always used sloppy focus and I am very protective of it :D
<seb128> ah, I use the click focus option
<seb128> I don't really get the point of the sloppy focus ;-)
<Ng> it's exactly the same as click-to-focus, without the clicking :)
<seb128> in fact I tend to not use the mouse to do workspace and applications switching, just shortcuts and alt-tab
<Ng> ah
<Ng> but that's good, that tells us the focus thing isn't just because of focus-follows-mouse
<seb128> so having the mouse pointer doing changes when I move the mouse tend to annoy me
<seb128> right
<mvo> Ng, me too!
<mvo> Ng, could you disable animation and see if that helps too? and maybe wall if animation does not help
<Ng> sure
<Ng> well disabling animation hasn't instantly fixed it, but I'm wondering if I should restart compiz.
<Ng> hah, disabling wall leaves me unable to change workspace
<mvo> Ng, right, there should be some replacements
 * Ng nods. cube it is
<mvo> there used to be plane as well, I think it got removed at some point
<Ng> ok so switching to cube has made the focus start working again. it's "switch to face N" bindings conflicted with my previous "switch to workspace N" ones, so I kept mine.
 * Ng switches back to wall to see if it breaks again
<Ng> back with wall and it's still working, so I guess I'll stick with cube for a while and see if it goes wrong there
<mvo> ok, thanks
<mvo> you can tune cube to switch faster if the animation slows you down
<Ng> I already did :)
<Ng> I always tune the animations to be really fast :)
<pitti> oh, it just occurred to me that we still launch trackerd and tracker-applet by default, although it's not supposed to
<pitti> does anyone have an idea why this happens?
<pitti> oh, /etc/xdg/autostart/trackerd.desktop
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> seb128: any idea why /etc/xdg/autostart/tracker-applet.desktop even exists? shouldn't that be handled by the panel itself, if you add the applet?
<seb128> pitti: because it's a notification area icon
<pitti> seb128: hm, just upgraded to new gvfs; this didn't only stop auto-mount, but apparently the complete nautilus handling; nothign happens now, I don't get that "what do you want to do" dialog
<pitti> does that work for you?
<seb128> pitti: hum, but the camera is listed and you can double click on it?
<seb128> pitti: I didn't try, I don't have my camera here
<pitti> seb128: I get it only in the computer place, no icon on the desktop (which would be the mount already, so that's ok)
<seb128> and do you get something if you double click on the icon?
<pitti> seb128: I get the nautilus browser
<pitti> no question what to do with it
<pitti> media settins says "Photos: Ask"
<seb128> pitti: ok, I'll debug that later but I need to get my camera first
<pitti> ok
<pitti> seb128: shall I revert the f-spot change already, to talk driectly to libgphoto again?
<seb128> yes please do
<seb128> was the question working in hardy?
<seb128> the issue is that when you don't automount you don't know the device content and that's used to figure if the device is a mtp player or a camera iirc
<seb128> ok, I'm late for lunch I've to run
<seb128> bbl
 * mvo -> food
<Laney> pitti: Thanks for gnome-terminal sponsoring \o/ my irssi loves you now
<pitti> Laney: :)
<seb128> re
<mvo> alt-w again?
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> mvo: no, wrong click this time ;-)
<seb128> pitti: I was thinking about the gphoto mount on my way to lunch, we used g-v-m again for that in hardy
<seb128> pitti: gvfs need to mount the device to know if that's a camera
<pitti> seb128: that's strange; nautilus already knows it's a camera even when unmounted
<pitti> I get the camera symbol in computer:/// (it's in hal, after all)
<seb128> pitti: is there an icon property for the device?
<pitti> what is an icon property?
<seb128> pitti: there is something which let you set an icon to use for devices in hal no?
<pitti> seb128: hm, that might be for GNOME, but I never saw it
<pitti> info.category = 'camera'  (string)
<pitti> info.capabilities = {'camera', 'camera', 'camera', 'access_control'} (string list)
<pitti> but I really guess nautilus is looking at those ones
<seb128> pitti: I need to look at the code again but the issue comes from the fact that some devices are mtp player and cameras
<seb128> pitti: the nautilus code is somewhat stupid it looks for a PICTURES directory on the mount
<pitti> seb128: uh? that doesn't even exist on my cam, it's "DCIM" (and that's very common)
<seb128> pitti: see bug #258936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 258936 in nautilus "lists standard mounts as picture cds" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258936
<pitti> seb128: hm, I had assumed it'd look at the hal properties
<seb128> pitti: gvfs does that's why you get the correct icon
<seb128> pitti: see libnautilus-private/nautilus-autorun.c _g_mount_guess_content_type()
<seb128> pitti:
<seb128> 				if (strcmp (stor_device_caps[n], "portable_audio_player") == 0) {
<seb128> 					g_ptr_array_add (types, g_strdup ("x-content/audio-player"));
<seb128> 				}
<seb128> 				/* TODO: map other hal capabilities to x-content/ types */
<seb128> 			}
<seb128> pitti: adding some snippet there might work though
<pitti> hm, I don't see that in n-autorun.c
<pitti> is that in gvfs?
<seb128> pitti: no, nautilus
<pitti> grep -r portable_audio_player -> no result in nautilus
<seb128> let me update, my checkout on this box is outdated
<seb128> hum, they changed the code since
<seb128> 	* libnautilus-private/nautilus-autorun.c:
<seb128> 	* libnautilus-private/nautilus-autorun.h:
<seb128> 	Use g_mount_guess_content_type() instead of using our own
<seb128> 	sniffing code. Also provide an option for the user to select
<seb128> 	an application to use (#532474).
 * seb128 looks in glib
<seb128> pitti: they moved the detection to glib which is lower than hal in the stack and use shared-mime-info
<seb128> pitti: rather not lower but which doesn't depends on dbus or hal rather
<pitti> ugh, how bad
<seb128> that's probably why they use the directories
<pitti> *headdesk*
<pitti> that's soo backwards :(
<pitti> but that wouldn't work for things like scanners at all
<seb128> pitti: anyway in hardy I'm pretty sure that was similar, they needed the device to be mount to guess the content so we used gnome-volume-manager for cameras
<seb128> pitti: you don't browse scanners, we are speaking file manager there
<seb128> pitti: gvfs correctly detects the devices and applications would use gvfs
<MacSlow> greetings everybody
<pitti> hey MacSlow
<pitti> seb128: where does davidz usually hang out? I'd like to talk with him about this camera thing
<seb128> pitti: #gnome-hackers
<pitti> on gimp.net?
<seb128> pitti: it's still a bit early for him though
<MacSlow> pitti, mvo, seb128: hey there
<seb128> pitti: irc.gnome.org
<seb128> hello MacSlow
<seb128> pitti, tedg: one think which has been discussed to the "everybody should have an user switcher applet in the corner", is what we do for people who changed their config to have only one bottom gnome-panel for example (that's quite common since that's the default on some other well known os or some distros ;-) (I added a common on the bug about that)
<seb128> "one thing which has not been discussed" rather
<seb128> some users also have a floating bar and use autohiding, the corner way is nice when you have a corner
<mvo> seb128: let me know if the scripts needs ajustments
<tedg> seb128: This is precisely why the next-gen panel will be less configurable :)
<mvo> seb128: just to confirm, you have click_to_focus, right?
<mvo> Ng: and you have click_to_focus disabled?
<seb128> mvo: will do, it could be smarter for quite some things but I think we did that too late in the cycle to get it rocking stable
<seb128> mvo: right
<mvo> seb128: I think we can do more in the script itself, just the stuff around it (like only show if there is actually a quit button etc) is a bit difficult to do because it requires changes in update-notifier
<mvo> or in the infrastructure that picks up the note
<Ng> mvo: correct
<mvo> thanks ng and seb128
<seb128> mvo: right, but right know it adds the applet if you don't have the applet installed for example
<mvo> I'm talking to upstream currently, lets see what he thinks (I'm confident, compiz upstream are rockstars!)
<mvo> seb128: it does that now? or it should do that?
<seb128> mvo: again not sure when you did the previous snapshot and if lot of code changed but the snapshot didn't have the bug
<seb128> mvo: it does that, it just modify the config but doesn't look to install packages before suggesting the change no?
<mvo> seb128: right, you think of the case when fusa is not installed on the system?
<seb128> mvo: correct
<mvo> hmmm
<mvo> we could add that I guess
<mvo> seb128, Ng: could you please try http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/test/compiz-fusion-plugins-main_0.7.8-0ubuntu2_i386.deb ? it may fix the issue
<seb128> mvo: ok
<seb128> mvo: did anybody find an issue or just a random try?
<mvo> seb128: this comes from upstream and he thinks it should fix it
<seb128> mvo: ok, will let you know in some hours if I didn't the issue again
<Ng> mvo: sure
<Ng> hmm, compiz won't start for me now
<Ng>  /usr/bin/compiz.real: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/compiz/libresizeinfo.so: undefined symbol: getCompPluginInfo
<mvo> Ng: urgs, woah
<mvo> Ng: looks like I miscompiled it
 * mvo scratches his head and rebuilds it in pbuilder
<mvo> ping mvo_
<mvo> ping mvo_
<mvo> ping mvo_
<mvo> ping mvo_
<james_w> hey glatzor
<glatzor> hello james_w and mvo !
<james_w> glatzor: did you see that I uploaded packagekit 0.3.6?
<glatzor> james_w, not yet. I was offline the since yesterday :)
<glatzor> s/the//
<james_w> glatzor: there were some differences between bzr and the PPA
<james_w> I went with the PPA and pushed the changes to bzr
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<mvo> Ng: I updated http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/test/compiz-fusion-plugins-main_0.7.8-0ubuntu2_i386.deb (md5sum 5c318f24c098356828eed0889efeb7a4 - just in case the proxy is playing silly bugger)
<glatzor> james_w, right. I did not upload the latest version to the ppa.
<glatzor> james_w, so, but this is ok. It was only a small patch to make the gstreamer plugin coexist with gnome-app-install
<james_w> glatzor: hmm, so should the packages have a versioned conflicts on gnome-app-install or an un-versioned one?
<james_w> glatzor: and should it add an alternative for gnome-codec install?
<glatzor> james_w, a versioned one. mvo changed gnome-app-install to use an alternative for gstreamer-codec-install
<pitti> seb128: indeed, I just have one panel, and I mentioned that in the bug
<glatzor> james_w, gnome-codec-install is deprecated now
<glatzor> james_w, there was a change in the gstreamer package
<james_w> glatzor: ah, ok. I uploaded the wrong thing then, sorry.
<glatzor> james_w, nobody was harmed :)
<james_w> glatzor: is it ok like that, or do I need to fix something?
<glatzor> james_w, it makes testing the codec installer more annoying since a tester would have to remove gnome-app-install, but this should be ok.
<james_w> glatzor: I can upload a fix for that, no problem
<glatzor> james_w, I should have uploaded the correct version to ppa
<glatzor> james_w, if it is only a 5 minute thing I would welcome it
<james_w> less than 5 :-)
<glatzor> james_w, go for it :)
<james_w> glatzor: should I drop the update-alternatives for gnome-codec-install as well?
<pitti> tedg: your ppa package in bug 261084 at least seems to improve matters (although not fully fix them); do you think it's something worth uploading?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261084 in gnome-power-manager "Suspends again right after resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261084
<pitti> didrocks: how's bug 212098 coming along, BTW?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212098 in nautilus-share ""easy" file sharing not notifying about logout/login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212098
<mvo> Ng: with new compiz-fusion-plugins-main now :) ?
<tedg> pitti: Yes, I've got another couple bugs I'm looking at rolling into the package -- and then requesting sponsorship.
<tedg> pitti: I think it doesn't harm things if nothing else.  Though, I think there is a lower level problem going on.
<tedg> pitti: There are a lot of reports of repeated keys -- suspend, brightness, etc.  I think the new X Input stuff has broken some of the hotkey support.
<Ng> mvo: I think it's the same, but I'm doing something else atm, will get back to you
<mvo> Ng: "I think it's the same"> so the fix does not work?
<mvo> Ng: sure, when you have time
<pitti> tedg: "some" is an understatement...
<glatzor> james_w, yes. you can safely drop it
<glatzor> james_w, sorry I was away for some minutes
 * tedg doesn't have hotkey support on Intrepid :(
<didrocks> pitti: I do not understand the "it's not fixed in intrepid", did you see my tests and comments on a fresh ubuntu install ?
<pitti> didrocks: I saw them, but they aren't the point of that bug report
<pitti> didrocks: we only put the user into sambashare to workaround exactly this bug, but we don't actually like to :/
<pitti> didrocks: and it does not help for non-admin users who want to share stuff
<seb128> pitti: is there any reason we don't really like to? that provides a better user experience because in this case no session restart is required
<didrocks> pitti: yes, but non-admin will not initiate the share, so, they will not have to figure about this "bug" (cf my use case)
<pitti> seb128: we want to get rid of using groups altogether, since you need all this session restarts, and it isn't very flexible
<pitti> didrocks: ok, true for non-admins
<pitti> since they can't put itself into sambashare anyway (except an admin does it for them)
<didrocks> pitti: so, for an non-admin user, the only "weird stuff" is when an admin switch the session to add them (without logged off) and so, they can't see their change when switch again to the user session
<pitti> didrocks: right, isn't any different to an admin user in this case (needs to restart session)
<didrocks> pitti: so, the only solution is either: 1/ change group dynamically (which is a hard thing to achieve)
<didrocks> 2/ detect that an user has been added to a group but session information aren't reloaded
<pitti> didrocks: 2) is easy, compare your process' groups and getpwent
<pitti> didrocks: 1) currently doesn't work for existing processes, you'd need to restart everything relevant under a "newgrp" session (let's not think about it)
<didrocks> ok, so, maybe 2) can be implemented to tell "ok, you have the right, but reload your session"
<didrocks> pitti: I first just thought about a hardy SRU
 * calc will be a part of desktop starting next monday :)
<pitti> seb128: ok, seems we need to revert that gvfs change then; sorry
<seb128> pitti: I'm reading #gnome-hackers
<pitti> seb128: I'll work on that, and fix f-spot to unmount the gvfs at start; ok?
<crevette> hello
<seb128> pitti: works for me, thank you
<seb128> lut crevette
<seb128> pitti: I'll revert the gvfs change
<pitti> seb128: ok, thanks
<crevette> hello seb128
<seb128> switching to my laptop for some testing, brb
<crevette> seb128: you're were talking about bluetooth device next day, most phone have bluetooth support, and a bluetooth adapter is really affordable, I bought mine 3 years ago for 8â¬
<crevette> ah toolate
<crevette> :)
<asac> hmm ... my laptop battery is at 27% but tray icon is still 100% green (though mouse over tells me its 27%)
<asac> known issue?
<seb128> re
<seb128> mvo:
<seb128> /usr/bin/compiz.real: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/compiz/libresizeinfo.so: undefined symbol: getCompPluginInfo
<seb128> mvo: the current version is still buggy
<seb128> and I didn't download the previous one so that's not a proxy issue
<seb128> dinner time, bbl
<crevette> diner time at 18:30 ?
<mvo> asac: tedg may know about gnome-power-manager issues
<tedg> asac: Will be fixed shortly.  PPA building, then I'll request sponsorship :)
<Ng> mvo: so yeah, it does look like I'm still getting that symbol error
<mvo> Ng: hm, preparing a new one yet again
<Ng> (a quick scan of the updates available to me atm suggest there are no compiz ones, so I should have all the latest intrepid compiz jazz)
<huats> crevette: remember that seb lives in the North
<crevette> huats: yeah but I don't recall my gd parents (who lives nothern than him) eat so early :)
<huats> :)
<crevette> probably a local habits
<mvo> Ng: ok, a new one with f827659f6e9fb36d5b011773f14ca520 is oneline
<asac> tedg: thanks. will be out for a few now.
<Ng> mvo: that may actually have been user error on my part, but I'm going to blame wget for not saying <blink>I saved that as .1 ha ha ha</blink> ;)
<Ng> but it's running now
<mvo> Ng: heh :)
<mvo> Ng: thanks!
<Ng> mvo: btw, one random other compiz thing while I think of it, windows (by which I mean X windows, so even things like the popup part of a GTK dropdown widget) seem to appear with random noise in them before being painted - is that known?
<Ng> (it's been around for ages, so it's by no means a regression)
<tedg> Ng: Nvidia?  I think that's an nvidia bug.
<Ng> intel
<Ng> X3100 (GM965)
<mvo> Ng: I have seen that yes
<pitti> oh argh, /usr/sbin/f-spot-import is totally broken
<Ng> hardly an end-of-the-world kind of thing, it's just a bit weird looking. I'll add it to my list of things I should file bugs for :)
 * pitti fixes that while he's touching the file anyway, to avoid this silly device dialog f-spot gives you
<Ng> mvo: I tend to notice it because my firefox sessions are insanely huge and it has to think for about 15 seconds after it owns its window before it paints anything ;)
<tedg> Okay, so I have a package in my PPA that fixes several bugs.  Should I open up a new one for sponsorship?  Request on each of them?
<tedg> Bat my eyes and look beautiful?
<tedg> bug #283951
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283951 in gnome-power-manager "Please sponsor 2.24.0-0ubuntu6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283951
<asac> tedg: how about a diff?
<tedg> asac: between what and what?
<asac> tedg: between currnet intrepid version and the one to sponsor
<asac> tedg: or if its just a single fix that is included just the patch you applied for that
<asac> helps to do review if i can just see the diff ;)
<tedg> bzr diff -r 88.1.2..98 lp:~ted-gould/gnome-power/ubuntu-packaging-2.23
<tedg> asac: ^
<asac> tedg: i did a debdiff and that diff and the outcome isnt identical ;)
<asac> but maybe its just me
<tedg> asac: Probably the paths are different?
<tedg> I think that bzr makes everything relative to the base of the repository.
<asac> tedg: i used -p1 for interdiff
<asac> and my bzr diff generates prefixes
<tedg> asac: Hmm, that might be because of the fix in the source.  Since I moved it out into a formal patch.  I didn't ever do it in the source.
<tedg> I think it must be from 0ubuntu4
<asac> tedg: maybe. doesnt the "idle" risk of not accepting anything when system is under high load?
<asac> bug #261084
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261084 in gnome-power-manager "Suspends again right after resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261084
<tedg> asac: Perhaps, it would have to be increadibly high load.  I mean to the point of process starvation.
<chrisccoulson> ping tedg
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Hello.
<chrisccoulson> hi, following on from our brief discussion yesterday - i tried the build of GPM from your PPA
<chrisccoulson> i get the same behaviour when I press the power button on my desktop though
<chrisccoulson> every running instance of GPM calls a session dialog, even for inactive users.
<chrisccoulson> shouldn't GPM check to see if it is on the active console before responding to the power button event?
<tedg> GPM isn't doing that.  GPM is sending a message to GNOME Session Manager, it then shows the dialog.
<asac> gnoem bug #50739
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 50739 in langpack-locales "locales Depends on belocs-locales-bin should be a Pre-Depends" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50739
<asac> gnome bug #507393
<ubottu> Gnome bug 507393 in gnome-power-manager "Use the panel's shutdown window" [Enhancement,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=507393
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok. but one of those should decide to take no action, based on the fact that it isn't on the active console
<chrisccoulson> asac - thanks for that
<tedg> asac: That patch is in the 0ubuntu6 in my PPA.  Well, cleaned up so that it'll work on Xubuntu and others.
<asac> tedg: why do you use egg_warning and not gpm_warning?
<chrisccoulson> this 60 second time out is a pain, bacause if you accidentally hit the power button when you have more than 1 user logged in, then your machine will shut down regardless of whether the active user cancels
<tedg> chrisccoulson: There should be no way for the message to get to the other active users.
<tedg> is there a gnome-session process for all the users?
<tedg> asac: Because after the code freeze gpm changed all the gpm_warnings to egg_warnings.
<chrisccoulson> yeah, there is one gnome-session per user. thats similar to there being one gnome-power-manager per user
<tedg> chrisccoulson: And there's and X server instance per user, right?
<chrisccoulson> tedg - that's correct
<asac> tedg: ok looks good then.
<asac> tedg: only thing you could enlight me with is how the XSMP fallback works
<tedg> chrisccoulson: I'm not sure how that could be happening.... is there a seperate dbus session for all the users?
<chrisccoulson> there is a separate session bus for each user
<tedg> asac: Basically it looks for gnome session on dbus, if it can't find it, then it uses the GNOME Client code to do XSMP.
<chrisccoulson> there's one of pretty much everything for each user isn't there (except HAL and the system bus)
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Could you install d-feet and see if you can call org.freedesktop.PowerManagement then look at the function "Shutdown" and see what happens?
<asac> tedg: well. i see the fallback. but i didnt see the XSMP call
<asac> but apparently nome_client_request_save triggers that
<tedg> asac: Yes, it should.  But, you shouldn't see it if you have gnome-session installed.
<tedg> GNOME Session should be generating the XSMP messages in that case.
<asac> k
<chrisccoulson> tedg - i'm not quite sure what you want me to do with d-feet. it only lists the objects and supported interfaces doesn't it?
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Yes, but then you can run the functions also.  If you click on a function you can execute it.
<chrisccoulson> ah, i didn't realise i could send messages with d-feet
<chrisccoulson> well, i already know that calling org.freedesktop.PowerManagement.Shutdown will shutdown my machine (I have a script which does that)
<tedg> And if you call the gnome session manager for logout, does it show the dialog for all the users?
<asac> tedg: err, i dont see the fix for the battery :/
<asac> (which is why i was looking at this in the first place)
<chrisccoulson> tedg - do you want me to call org.gnome.SessionManager.Logout?
<tedg> asac: Well, at least for other folks, that was the removal of patch 19.  Did it not help?
<tedg> asac: Hmm, looks like that was in 0ubuntu3.
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Yes.  That's the function that GPM calls.
<chrisccoulson> it wants an argument, but i'm not sure what to send it
<asac> tedg: not sure. let me check whast on that system
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Sorry, we're calling "Shutdown".
<chrisccoulson> the version in your PPA calls Shutdown
<chrisccoulson> the official one still calls Logout I think
<tedg> chrisccoulson: It uses XSMP, but basically yes.
<chrisccoulson> right, calling Shutdown only causes the session dialog to appear on my own desktop
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Did calling that bring up the dialog for all the users?
<chrisccoulson> it only brought it up for me, which is expected I think, as i can only connect to my own session bus
<asac> tedg: nope. i had ubuntu5
<chrisccoulson> the problem seems to be that every user has one instance of GPM and gnome-session. when someone presses the power button, every instance of GPM calls Shutdown in it's own session, regardless of whether it is on the active console or not
<asac> tedg: will see if i can still reproduce
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Hmm, that's basically what GPM is calling.  So the power button must be getting sent to all of the X servers and sent to all the GPM instances.
<chrisccoulson> tedg - that is what I think happens.
<asac> tedg: anyway. uploaded
<asac> will give you an update if i still see this
<asac> (have to wait until a bit of battery is used)
<tedg> asac: Thank you, tell me about the icon.
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Can you get the verbose output of one of the GPM's?  See where it's getting the power key from?
<tedg> chrisccoulson: gnome-power-manager --no-daemon --verbose
<chrisccoulson> no problem
<chrisccoulson> do i need to kill the existing daemon?
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Yes.
<chrisccoulson> tedg - http://paste.ubuntu.com/58007/
<chrisccoulson> seems it gets it straight from hal
<chrisccoulson> does that sound right?
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Can be, depends on the hardware, drivers, etc.
<james_w> yeah, it comes from hal, via acpi I believe
<chrisccoulson> i can monitor the system bus and see the signal from hal when i press the button
<tedg> Hmm, so HAL must be sending Power to all the instances of GPM.
<james_w> there is one hal, so the event gets sent to all gpms that are listening
<chrisccoulson> and that's where the problem is;)
<james_w> something needs to decide if it's active or not
<james_w> I think it should be g-p-m
<tedg> james_w: You're probably right, but I like blaming other software better :)
<james_w> heh :-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure how it would be implemented in gpm
<tedg> Hmm, I don't think GPM is linking to console kit...
<chrisccoulson> it's not
<chrisccoulson> but gpm knows whether it is active or not via calls to policykit i think
<tedg> Active is not the issue as much as "on top" -- that's console kit's job.
<james_w> policykit uses consolekit, so that could work
<james_w> they both live on dbus, which gpm is obviously using
<tedg> I don't think policy kit has domain over signals that are sent on teh bus, I believe it's only actions that can be called.
<chrisccoulson> anyway, i'll leave you to think about it for a bit. i have to dash off ;)
<james_w> tedg: correct, but gpm can query consolekit
<tedg> james_w: Yes, I think it'll need to.
<james_w> is there a bug open in GNOME about this?
<chrisccoulson> i haven't seen one yet
<james_w> or do we differ from upstream in gpm or gnome-session about something here?
<chrisccoulson> i've not opened one on LP yet either
<james_w> tedg: is there a gpm channel?
<tedg> james_w: Not that I know of.  You can ping hughsie in #gnome-hackers
<tedg> Looks like it should be added to gpm-button.c:emit_button_pressed -- I think blocking all the HAL button events makes sense.
<chrisccoulson> it only sees a HAL button event in my case though, I think
<asac> tedg: sparc ftb
<asac> and hppa, but thats expected
<tedg> asac: What's ftb?
<asac> fails to build ;)
<asac> short for ftbfs ;)
<tedg> Failure to Build File system?
<tedg> Is there a log?
<james_w> the last few uploads at least have
<asac> tedg: didnt you get a mail?
<asac> tedg: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18578657/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-sparc.gnome-power-manager_2.24.0-0ubuntu6_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<asac> tedg: should be an easy alignment fix
<tedg> Yes, I did get it.
<james_w>     *cur = *((int *) prop);
<james_w> prop is unsigned char
<james_w> prop is unsigned char * sorry
<tedg> asac: So, it should be making the variable an "int *" and then casting it to a "char *" when it needs it that way?
<james_w> cur is guint *
<asac> tedg: what is "variable"?
<asac> prop?
<tedg> asac: james_w:  Like this?  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/58021/
<tedg> Basically allocate at the larger alignment.
<james_w> possibly
<asac> tedg: or cast the unreffed char maybe?
<asac> err dereffed ;)
<asac> e.g.  *cur = (int) ...
<tedg> asac: Sure, probably that as it's only a one line change.
<asac> tedg: maybe test a small code snippet on a sparc dev machine (if we have one :))
<tedg> Yeah, I'm a touch concerned about sign extension in that case.
<tedg> I think as long as it gets casted to an unsigned int it should be okay.
<tedg> No, I think it has to be the first way.  Because if we're calling a function that wants to use it as an int (presumably doing a cast itself) we would need a pointer initially created with the right alignment.  Or else, there'll be a crash in that function.
<mvo> Ng: any news from the proposed fix?
<mvo> seb128: I put a new deb up, if you are interessted in the fix
<mvo> (or rather in the possible fix)
<seb128> mvo: same location?
<mvo> yes
<seb128> mvo: will install it later and try tomorrow, I'm working on my desktop right now
<seb128> mvo: but if you are confident it's not going to break things you should just upload to intrepid ;-)
<asac> tedg: if we dont use a function there then it shouldnt matter. bug fixing the alignment upfront certainly has its advantages
<mvo> seb128: yeah, I think I should do that
<seb128> mvo: I'll work on the laptop tomorrow and confirm if the fix work or now for me so you can wait tomorrow morning too
<mvo> seb128: ok, I commit it into bzr now, but wait until tomorrow with the upload
<asac> tedg: ok the icon appears to be fixed. thanks
<tedg> asac: Great.
<tedg> BTW, do ftb's make bugs?  Is there some way that I should mark it in the changelog?
<asac> tedg: i would suggest to just clearly say: "fix build-failure on sparc; tiny alignment fix in xxxx"
<asac> tedg: no need to open a bug if no bug was opened by a user imo
<seb128> mvo: ok, I found a way to trigger the compiz bug I think and your update seems to fix it
<seb128> mvo: do you have a non patched version running to try? ;-)
<mvo> seb128: I have
<mvo> seb128: that sounds like excellent news
<mvo> seb128: did I mention that compiz upstream (hello onestone) are rockstars :) ? seriously, they are!
<seb128> mvo: assign alt-something shortcuts to different workspaces, let's say to workspace 6 and 7
<mvo> done
<seb128> mvo: usually I switch between workspace not relaxing alt, because I just look quickly on IRC for example and come back to the other workspace
<seb128> mvo: now, do alt-tab once, don't unpress alt and do the key to switch to the other workspace
<seb128> it'll go back to the workspace where you were
<seb128> and now the bug happens every time you switch workspaces
<seb128> ie, try alt-keybinding between those
<seb128> not sure if the description is clear
<seb128> mvo: let me know if that's not clear
<seb128> mvo: when you switch to other workspace after the alt-tab stop touching the keyboard to stay there
<mvo> yep, works!
<mvo> or rather, triggers the bug
<seb128> good ;-)
<seb128> and your update fix it there apparently
<seb128> mvo: good job!
 * mvo dances
<mvo> seb128: well, really all the praise needs to go to danny from compiz
<seb128> mvo: I guess the way I trigger it is sitting on the alt key, I tend to do that a lot
<seb128> I do alt-tab and switch workspaces using it
<mvo> seb128: right, I use ctrl to switch so I did no notice
<seb128> ctrl might have the same issue if you ctrl-tab to cycle
<mvo> righ, I use alt-tab, but ctrl-1,2 :)
<seb128> mvo: anyway was is the upstream change supposed to fix exactly? they made it after you described the issue or it was already there?
<seb128> s/was/what
<mvo> seb128: I described the issue, he looked at the code and shuffled a "+    ws->focusDefault = TRUE;" around
<seb128> mvo: looks like they have a clue about their code ;-)
<mvo> yes :)
<seb128> mvo: thanks for bringing the issue upstream and backport the fix btw ;-)
<seb128> mvo: I own you a $beverage
<mvo> seb128: cheers, thanks for reporting it!
<mvo> it was difficult to describe at first
<seb128> it was difficult to figure what action was triggering it too
<seb128> I never do this alt-tab and switch workspace which brings you to where you were
<seb128> I just did it accidentally now while trying to trigger the bug
<seb128> there is likely other similar ways to trigger the bug
<mvo> right
<seb128> mvo: and feel free to upload the fixed version ;-)
<mvo_> hm, the notebook just froze (overheated?) - I guess this is a signal to stop working :)
<seb128> mvo_: hey, would be a reasonable hour
<asac> tedg: ok it failed on ia64 too
<asac> same alignment issue.
<asac> tedg: if you have something i should upload let me know
<tedg> asac: I'm checking on my PPA right now :)
<asac> tedg: how can you check on your PPA if it succeeds on sparc ;) ... i want that ppa too
<tedg> asac: Heh, I wish.  I'm half considering trying to get a pbuilder setup in QEMU for Sparc...
<asac> heh ;)
<seb128> is there any desktop sparc user?
<mvo_> seb128, you know me, I like to keep reasonable hours!
 * asac is lucky to have a gentoo porter for all crazy archs in the mozillateam channel ;)
<seb128> mvo_: I should take example on you ;-)
 * mvo_ waves
<tedg> seb128: If anyone from Sun is reading this backlog, I COULD be a desktop Sparc user :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-16
<crevette> hello
<seb128> lut crevette
<crevette> salut seb128
<Ng> mvo: I guess it should be settled one way or the other by the end of the day, but so far the compiz plugins package seems to be doing the job nicely :)
<Ng> I badly need to restart X, but I'm going to hold out to see how the focus goes
<mvo> Ng: thanks! seb128 told me the fix works for him, he even found a way to reproduce it in a reliable way
<mvo> Ng: I uploaded it now into the archive, upstream says its the right thing(tm)
<Ng> oh nice, well then I guess that rules very much in favour of it :)
<Ng> and i can restart X to unwedge my mouse \o./
<mvo> yeah, do it :)
<Ng> thanks very much for sorting that
<mvo> cheers, thanks for your support testing it!
<Ng> my pleasure :)
<asac> hmm seb is gone :/
<mvo> seb128: to get a better idea about the gconf failure (of silbs), do you think we should just make update-gconf-defaults more verbose? by remoing the os.dup2(1) ; close(1) at the beginning and adding more output (e.g. to the bottom except OSError)?
<seb128> mvo: the issue is not likely a .gconf-defaults one but rather a schemas registration one
<seb128> mvo: ie gconf-schemas --register
<seb128> mvo: update-gconf-defaults only write debian customizations
<mvo> right, I thought that was the suspect
<mvo> hm, gconf-schemas --register sounds much harder to debug
<seb128> mvo: we could write to a log rather than writting to stdout
<mvo> hm, stdout is captured by update-manager
<mvo> but I have not yet seen anything useful from gconf-schemas
<mvo> or anything that looked like a clue
<seb128> mvo: it seems it does some /dev/null redirection though
<mvo> aha
<seb128> mvo: sorry I had to restart again, should be stable for some time now
<asac> pitti: do we know what happens in launchpad-o-matic if we pocket copy firefox from security to updates?
<asac> nothing? or could it be that an old template upload gets triggered?
<asac> s/launchpad-o/langpack-o/
<asac> ;)
<seb128> mvo: have you read bug #281837?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281837 in gnome-panel "merge of switcher, and logout is not presented to all users" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281837
<mvo> hm
<mvo> seb128: its just shown for admin users I believe
<seb128> right, what I was thinking too
<mvo> meh, that needs fixing
<mvo> or not - if we do not use the notification anymore but switch to auto migrating the config
<asac> seb128: when i do a screenshot and select "tmp" (i set this up as a quick folder or whatever thats called) in the "Save in folder" option menu, it bounces back to my home
<asac> seb128: i have to open the file dialog and select tmp there
<seb128> asac: right, gtk bug and fixed to svn, we will get next tarball for GNOME 2.24.1 before intrepid
<asac> cool
 * asac hugs seb128 
<asac> also i got this when hitting the "update" button in the user switch notification today: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/Screenshot-Untitled%20Window.png
<asac> most likely i am missing a package?
<dobey> ugh :)
<pitti> asac: re (sorry, phone call)
<pitti> asac: security buildds don't produce langpack exports, AFAIK, due to the way they are handled (dak)
<pitti> asac: thus pocket-copying won't get it either
<mvo> asac: hmmm
<asac> pitti: yeah. but something is definitly happening which causes an upload of an old template
<asac> at least jtv said that launchpad itself doesnt maintain a history, so the old template cannot come from there in theory
<pitti> asac: hm, weird; there shouldn't be template uploads at all for -security (which *is* a problem, but not the way you mention it)
<asac> pitti: could it be that hppa attemps to build after pocket copy, build fails
<pitti> asac: if the build fails, there won't be an export
<asac> and then something old is uploaded?
<asac> hmm
<asac> yeah. but there is definitly something happening when we do security updates
<pitti> maybe it's coming from a firefox SRU?
<asac> everytime we do that we bounce back to a old en-US.xpi
<asac> pitti: might be that its a reupload of the last update we sent to -proposed
<asac> at least thats an idea. but still doesnt explain why something gets uploaded at all
<pitti> I have another theory
<pitti> sometimes the buildd admins do mass-givebacks
<pitti> maybe that includes builds for stable-proposed as well?
<pitti> ah, no
<asac> maybe its also related to the random loss of .ddeb files for security updates?
<pitti> if they FTBFS, they wouldn't export anything
<asac> yeah
<asac> something wierd is going on
<pitti> asac: hm, I think this is an infinity question
<pitti> asac: I'm 100% sure that the security buildds don't produce ddebs
<asac> my idea was that pocket copy triggers an  upload somehow and since there is no export data the old one gets reuploaded
<pitti> asac: but I am not sure whether they produce translation tarballs
<pitti> asac: the translation tarball is part of the _arch.changes, so that's only there if the build succeeded
<asac> pitti: well. even if you do mass-givebacks it would be the right version
<asac> and not something old
<asac> pitti: its really quite a big issue for me that we dont have ddebs for security builds :(
<asac> is that going to change with the all-soyuz shift?
<pitti> asac: I do believe you; I'll be the first who jumps for joy if we get rid of dak for that
<asac> yeah ;)
<asac> pitti: so realisitically i need to go back to -dbg packages to realibly get symbols for our stable releases?
<pitti> asac: it would probably help, yes
<asac> ok. i will think about that for jaunty then
<asac> pitti: so what are the next steps to identify where those uploads come from. wait for infinity?
<pitti> asac: you could also ask jamie and kees to look at the -security upload .changes on jackass and check whether they have translations
<asac> pitti: ok will do that as next step then
<asac> pitti: will keep you updated ;)
<pitti> thanks! interests me too
<asac> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/58323/
<asac> pitti: i guess pocket-copy doesnt copy those then or they never existed in the first place.
<pitti> asac: that's from -security uploads?
<asac> yes
<pitti> asac: ah, so the -security buildds do export them
<asac> i asked jamie to look at the -security upload .changes on jackass and check whether they have translations
<pitti> asac: the upload from dak to soyuz -security does keep them, yes
<asac> yeah. most likely they just get lost somewhere
<pitti> asac: but the pocket copy from -security to -updates does *not*
<pitti> since the tarballs are immediately discarded after login; even rosetta doesn't see them
<asac> ok but still it triggers an upload
<asac> and then there only is the old translation.tar.gz ?
<pitti> right, that's the point I don't understand either
<pitti> asac: in general there is no translation.tar.gz at all
<asac> and it even has a different name :(
<asac> the version is in the filename
<pitti> it's entire lifetime is between a build and a soyuz upload
<asac> pitti: maybe it would be easier for us to prevent dak from including translations in the uploads?
<asac> pitti: we dont need that in general for security updates
<asac> and if we need it we have to prepare them before we release anyway
<asac> so have to upload the template by hand (which now i remember was most likely the version we see now reappearing)
<pitti> asac: but if they are uploaded by -security, they can hardly be "old"? usually the -security uploads have the newest version for that release anyway?
<pitti> asac: or do you mean that a hardy upload overwrites translations in intrepid?
<asac> pitti: no. my theory is still that the old thing gets uploaded or resurrected in launchpad because of a bug somewhere which is triggered by the translations being in that initial changes :)
<asac> inital changes == uploaded by dak
<asac> pitti: no the intrepid templates are ok
<pitti> ah, cprov just came online
<asac> actually i am not even sure if the templates are broken. what is broken is that one part of the export is an old file
<asac> e.g. the en-US.xpi
<james_w> tedg: hey, so your change to only respond to power button presses in active sessions won't work in Intrepid?
<tedg> james_w: No :(  Turns out that PolicyKit support has been disabled in GPM.
<tedg> james_w: It was done a while ago (over a year) in the Debian package and I never noticed.
<tedg> james_w: It seemed like too big of a change to push so late.
<james_w> it will only mean that administrators can't block access to shutdown etc. with policykit
<james_w> even thought they will apparently be able to
<james_w> and indeed give special permission to do those actions
<tedg> Correct, and that we can't do active session detection.  I think that it might be worth a backport?
<tedg> I'm not sure -- here's where my knowledge of the release process breaks down :)
<james_w> yeah, maybe
<james_w> bring it up with someone on the release team
<asac> 4:06 < asac> also i got this when hitting the "update" button in the user switch notification today:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/Screenshot-Untitled%20Window.png
<asac> tedg: ^^
<asac> 14:06 < asac> most likely i am missing a package?
<james_w> you spoke to pitti already?
<asac> is that your area?
<james_w> asac: do you have fusa in the panel?
<asac> i have no idea what that is. outcome of this dialog was that i dont have any shutdown /logout item in my panel anymore
<tedg> asac: Some, but that scripts is an mvo thing.
<asac> at some point duringi intrepid my shutdown button became a green man that didnt allow to shutdown anymore. now it is gone completely ;)
<tedg> asac: I think you scared the green man away.
<asac> hmm. i was so nice. i cant remember that i ever hit it with my pointer ;)
<Keybuk> I still think he should look like the AmpelmÃ¤nnchen
 * tedg smacked the little green man around, but he liked it.
<asac> tedg: so whats the idea? is there an explanation for that thing completely disappearing?
<asac> e.g. can i just move on or do you need info
<asac> also, now that its gone, what should i add instead?
<tedg> asac: Double check with mvo, but the idea is that the button should be replaced with the FUSA applet.
<tedg> asac: I'm not as familiar with the implementation.  It is upgrade-manager magic :)
<mvo> asac: do you have a fusa applet on your desktop?
<seb128> asac: I got a similar issue, if you have the session button but no user switcher the tool just drop the button and displays an error when trying to move the switcher next
<asac> mvo: what is a fusa applet?
<asac> mvo: atm everything is gone for me
<asac> i mean everything that looks remotely like a shutdown thing
<seb128> asac: the fast-user-switch-applet
<asac> seb128: how does it look like :(
<seb128> asac: that's label showing your username
<mvo> asac: oh, its gone for you ? hrmmm
<seb128> asac: when clicking on it it lists other users available so you can switch between sessions
<asac> mvo: err. i am not sure ... i think i only had a red power button in hardy
<asac> that converted to a green ampelmÃ¤nnchen
<asac> and now its gone :)
<seb128> mvo: read what I wrote just before
<asac> thats how the decay happened ;)
<asac> i never had that kind of applet i think
<asac> lets check if i can add that
<asac> ok i have a power button again
<seb128> mvo: the tool is not really smart, it drops the session button first and then try to move the user switcher, but if there is no user switcher it displays an error which let you with a config which has neither
<asac> its not really obvious if you scroll through the panel list, that the "user switcher" will give you a power button
<mvo> seb128: right, I fix that
<seb128> asac: sudo apt-get install fast-user-switch-applet
<asac> so when was this fusa thing introduced?
<asac> and why wouldnt i have that?
<asac> hmm ... no nice icons in the drop down with the operations :)
<mvo> hrm, hrm,  I was sure I added the code that check for both first
<seb128> asac: not sure now, I would say it was added around hardy, and user configs are not changed on upgrade usually so if you installed before that you didn't get it added to your user configuration
<seb128> mvo: you added it to your brz and didn't upload?
<asac> ok. so probably this is something we should consider as not everyone installed hardy
<asac> mvo: ^^
<mvo> asac:fixing it now
<mvo> seb128: what should we do when no fusa applet is on the panel but available? add one?
<dobey> i hope not
<dobey> should use the classic method i would think
<seb128> mvo: the user clicked to get its config updates to adding one seems reasonable
<seb128> s/updates/updated
<mvo> dobey: the user will be asked about this, we won't do it automatically
<mvo> seb128: hrm, adding it brings in a new class of falure conditions
<dobey> ok
<seb128> mvo: which one?
 * dobey wonders if he can make launchpad not send himself e-mails for his comments to bugs
<mvo> seb128: figuring a name, putting sensible values in gconf, adding it to the panel applet list - not terrible, but just more than before
<mvo> new gnome-panel uploaded
<seb128> mvo: good ;-)
<mvo> won't eat the button anymore
<mvo> but will not add a applet if its missing :/
<seb128> that's alright, we said we would migrate stock configure and let tweaker do tweaking
<asac> mvo: that "information available" thing doesnt disappear from tray here and clicking on it does  nothing :/
<asac> light bulb
<mvo> asac: and there is no window open already?
<mvo> asac: hidden somewhere behind another one?
<asac> mvo: no i had one open ... when i pushed the "update" button ... which removed the ampelmaennchen
<asac> mvo: is there a process i could be looking for
<asac> there definitly is no window on no desktop which i could reach
<asac> mvo: err
<mvo> asac: and you closed the informatio thing with "close" ?
<asac> it was :(
<asac> mvo: that kind of thing should be really available with alt-tab
<mvo> right
<asac> its definitly a top level thing ;)
<asac> mvo: or gtk_window_present
<asac> but i guess thats not news ;)
<asac> mvo: btw, i dont really like the idea that notification bulbs now ask questions that we are not asking during upgrade due to policy
<mvo> asac: I make it alt-tab-able now
<mvo> ?
<mvo> asac: what do you mean?
<asac> mvo: we dont ask questions on upgrade right? e.g. do you want to keep this or rather want this
<asac> thought that was a policy thing
<mvo> we do ask sometimes
<mvo> debconf is still used
<mvo> conffile prompts
<mvo> etc
<asac> but we dont want to add new
<mvo> this one is because it needs to run in the users context
<mvo> right
<asac> well. anyway. this notification bulb was on my laptop i think
<mvo> we do not modify user confiugration without consent
<asac> i closed it and had no idea how to get it back
<mvo> right, that is a UI problem with the things currently
<asac> also the text for this "user switcher" is quite long
<mvo> there is no easy way to get them back
<asac> and users dont know what it means imo
<mvo> I'm open for suggestions, the current text for the notificaiton was done in collaboration with mpt
<mpt> asac, screenshot?
<mvo> asac: don't get me wrong, there is plenty to improve, the currently solution is a compromise so that we can do it with low risk in short time
<asac> mpt: i dont know how to get it back.
<asac> mpt: only thing i can show you is the error message that came after that ;)
<asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/Screenshot-Untitled%20Window.png
<mpt> awesome
<asac> mvo: how can i get that thing back?
<asac> the notification i mean
<mpt> "applet"? "fusa"? "applet"? "panel configuration"? "manually"?
<mpt> thorough gibberish
<asac> let me see if i can touch the fusa-* thing in /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d
<asac> hmm ... doesnt show up
<asac> ok i have it
<asac> mpt: so the user experience is that after upgrade you get a notification bulb in the tray. when you click on it, you get:
<asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/Screenshot-Untitled%20Window-2.png
<asac> mpt: ^^
<asac> the first time i saw that i just closed it
<asac> (like i close every notification that comes up with a light)
<asac> the second time i understood that i am supposed to hi "Update". when i did that the bug from above showed up
<mvo> asac: rm .update-notifier/hooks_seen
<asac> mvo: so do we auto migrate users that didnt place the shutdown applet manually on their panel?
<mpt> heh
<asac> e.g. if they are running the default setup, they should automigrate to the new default imo
<mpt> asac, here's what I specced: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56038/
<asac> mpt: ok. the text in itself is ok
<mpt> asac, but I was told it would have been very difficult to implement
<asac> what i dont understand is why we need to show any notification at all
<mpt> Right, that's what I said *before* I specced that :-)
<asac> if users have the default shutdown widget on their panel they just want the new default shutdown thing there imo
<asac> i am quite sure that nobody wants the ampelmaennchen ;)
 * mpt learns a new word, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampelm%C3%A4nnchen
<asac> hehe
<asac> yeah we should use the red one ;)
<mvo> asac: we don't do auto migration at all
<mvo> mpt, asac: the current implementation of the notes does only allow text, sorry for that
<asac> mvo: ok ... so if i have hardy installed and upgrade and dont hit the "update" button
<asac> what do i get?
<mvo> asac: no change
<asac> if i end up having the green guy then its a migration
<asac> mvo: no change? i dont see the old button anymore :(
<mvo> asac: but you did hit "update", right?
<asac> mvo: no before that the red button was a green man
<asac> which has far less features
<mvo> asac: and now?
<asac> e.g. just log out
<mvo> right, as I said, no changes
<asac> mvo: after hitting update i had no button at all
<asac> mvo: no changes?
<mvo> asac: I just fixed that with my upload
<asac> mvo: user has a shutdown button ...a fter upgrade its a green man that doesnta llow to shutdown
<mvo> asac: it does not allow to shutdown?
<asac> mvo: the green man button is called "log out ..."
<asac> it offers: "logout, switch user" ... or wait for 60 seconds to get auto logged out
<mvo> asac: sorry, I got involved into this very late, I missed that it actually lost functionatliy :/
<asac> mvo: yeah. its not a shutdown button anymore ;)
<asac> mvo: so migrating them to the one we have now shoudl be done
<asac> and maybe we should offer to get the log out button
<asac> but that is questionable imo
<mvo> right, I think it should still offer shutdown
<asac> mvo: there also is a "shutdown" button which i can manually "add to panel ..."
<asac> but my shutdown button was migrated to the "log out ..." thing
<asac> mvo: otoh, the new "shutdown" button doesnt offer to log out or switch user
<asac> seems like the old button was split in "log out ..." and "shutdown ..." with "log out ..." replacing the old one by default
<asac> but as i said. maybe now we get shutdown and i got "log out..." because of a bug at some point during intrepid
<asac> who would know more?
<mvo> seb128: ---^
<asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/Screenshot-Log%20Out%20of%20the%20Session.png
<asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/Screenshot-Shut%20Down%20the%20Computer.png
<seb128> what?
 * Ng hrms, somehow I've ended up with xscreensaver installed
<asac> seb128: what happens for users that have hardy installed and upgrade ... will they get the grey shutdown button or the green guy?
<asac> i got the green guy ;)
<Ng> fwiw, I would suggest that shutdown thing say "Ends your session and turns the computer off" rather than "..turns off the computer", and I'd suggest "low" instead of "minimal", but that's just my suggestion ;)
<seb128> asac: what users?
<asac> seb128: i dont understand that question
<seb128> asac: the users who had a config customized or created before hardy will get a "can't migrate the config you need to do it"
<asac> "hardy users"
<asac> seb128: and if they dont do anthing?
<asac> seb128: what ends up in their panel?
<seb128> asac: hardy users had the user switching applet and the session button, they will get the new user switcher instead
<asac> ok. for hardy users its probably fine
<asac> the rest of the users get the green guy=
<asac> ?
<asac> can we at least make that the grey shutdown button ... and maybe make that red?
<seb128> asac: no you don't
<seb128> asac: ups, you do right
<seb128> asac: what you don't get is the nothing you had before ;-)
<asac> seb128: yes thats a bug now
<seb128> asac: the icon will be fixed before intrepid
<asac> seb128: but the session button shouldnt be migrated to the log out button
<asac> most users are single user installs so the shutdown button is the better choice i guess
<seb128> asac: you are joining that discussion a bit late
<asac> seb128: was it ever discussed that the session button should become the log out button for users that installed before hardy?
<seb128> bug #274146
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274146 in gnome-panel "Has not yet replaced the existing log out applet" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274146
<seb128> asac: to see what has been discussed
<seb128> asac: no, what has been discussed is "all users upgrading should get the new user switcher applet"
<seb128> which has all those actions too
<asac> seb128: that doesnt really address the problem with old installs imo
<asac> but well. if you say it has been explicitly decided to get the green man ... fine.
<asac> i am certainly late then
<seb128> asac: no, that's a failing corner case
<asac> seb128: right. thats why i am here. i want that we make the default go to the shutdown button ;)
<asac> and old installs shouldnt be treated as "corner cases" imo
<seb128> asac: the whole thing sucks, the discussion about those started way late in the cycle to do non trivial changes
<asac> seb128: right. but i think the migration to the new one is what is really complex here
<seb128> no, any migration is as complex
<asac> seb128: making the old button migrate to the shutdown button instead of the logout shouldnt be that hard?
<seb128> switch to the shutdown or user switcher is as difficult
<asac> seb128: well. whats the reason why the log out thing appears? isnt it that that applet is shipped under the same name?
<seb128> that's the object we have been using before
<seb128> we just used to patch the logout dialog to list all actions
<asac> seb128: right. we sshould make that object be the "shutdown" thing
<seb128> right now there is no migration
<asac> then we dont need to migrate
<asac> and make the log out thing a "new" object
<seb128> well, if you do dynamic objects change you can as well put the new applet there
<asac> not sure if i understand
<asac> i propose that the old shutdown button becomes the new shutdown button
<seb128> the object on the panel is a logout button
<asac> e.g. to ship it as the same object
<asac> and make the loigout button something else
<seb128> ok
<asac> seb128: right. i just though it would be a name mapping we could change so our users get a more seamless upgrade
<seb128> what you suggest requires patching the upstream code and keep this delta
<seb128> and create an ubuntu specific user configuration
<seb128> ie you change the code and semantic over upstream
<asac> why ubuntu specific user configuration?
<seb128> because you suggest making the logout button open the shutdown dialog on ubuntu if I understand that correctly
<asac> yeah. if that is unacceptable then we have to accept that users get the green guy
<seb128> so if you use the same user configuration to log into jhbuild for example you will get a different behaviour
<seb128> that's not unacceptable
<seb128> but we decided to modify the object listed in the user configuration
<seb128> rather than patching the code
<seb128> we just didn't do it for this case
<seb128> mvo was about to do it one hour ago and I told him to not bother
<seb128> but you are convincing me we should now ;-)
<asac> really cool ;)
<mvo> meh
<asac> that together with the shutdown button being red should make all our old users happy;)
<asac> i just looked for alternatives to not need to change user configuration. and thought that we could just maintain a patch that ships the shutdown code inthe logout binary and vice-versa ;)
<asac> but in the end the migration appears to be the only way we can get a long-term sustainable solution
<asac> migration == user config migration
<seb128> right, I prefer to do one gconf change on upgrade rather than keep code changes
<seb128> GNOME does roll tarball often and updating patches is no fun when you have to do 80 tarballs updates
<asac> ack
<mvo> I can look into adding the applet, but its not easy it seems
<seb128> mvo: and can you change the session button to a fast user switcher easily?
<mvo> seb128: yes, because the fusa is there already, I just need to move it into posittion
<seb128> mvo: no, we are speaking about the case where there is only the session button
<seb128> mvo: ie the case asac and users who have their config since before hardy have
<mvo> seb128: if there is no fusa applet already, then its hard to create one (or least least it looks fragile to me)
<seb128> mvo: and changing a session applet to a fuse one is not easier?
<seb128> mvo: let's ask vuntz ;-)
<asac> mvo: as a compromise we certainly want to do a one time migration from session button to new shtudown button
<seb128> vuntz: hello
<asac> ok
<mvo> seb128: hm, if there is a session applet (not a object) then it should be I think
<asac> i let the "desktop" team sort out the options
<asac> and keep still until i get asked ;)
<seb128> mvo: ah right, those are object
<mvo> seb128: the session button is a "applet"?
<mvo> aha, ok
<mvo> hrm
<mvo> maybe vuntz knows if there is less-insane way to create a /apps/panel/apps_foo with propper defaults
<mvo> seb128: hrm, so I changed update-notifier to not require admin user and now it appears in the guest session *grum*
<seb128> lol
<seb128> mvo: I guess you can special case this one ;-)
<mvo> seb128: yeah, I just need to be a bit careful, otherwise I get bugreports from "joe guest" :)
<vuntz> seb128, mvo: mmh?
<seb128> vuntz: is there an easy way to add an applet to an existant gnome-panel configuration?
<vuntz> well, just add they keys :-)
<vuntz> and associate them with the schemas
<vuntz> shell script? python? c?
<seb128> python
<mvo> vuntz: can I do the association directly from python (sorry for my ignorance here)
<vuntz> mvo: gconf_engine_associate_schema() in C, I guess
<vuntz> gconf.engine_get_default().associate_schema()
<vuntz> untested
<vuntz> :-)
<mvo> vuntz: and that for each key that a applet expects? or can I find that out dynamically from the schema itself?
<seb128> hum, I'm late for sport and I've to run bbl
<mvo> I guess I should look how the panel does it internally
<vuntz> mvo: panel_gconf_associate_schemas_in_dir() in panel-gconf.c
<mvo> thanks vuntz!
<dobey> ah, shutdown menu fun
<dobey> maybe the options should just be removed from fusa instead of the main menu, for now :)
<james_w> which component draws the actual desktop?
<james_w> and do you know how it interprets the "zoom" setting for "picture_options" in /desktop/gnome/background ?
<asac> james_w: actual desktop? you mean the files on it?
<asac> oh background ;)
<dobey> james_w: zoom is scale up and crop such that the smaller of w/h is the ratio used
<james_w> so it scales keeping the aspect ratio, and then crops the left over bit off?
<james_w> whereas "stretched" would not respect the aspect ratio?
<james_w> so what does that make "scaled"?
<dobey> yes
<dobey> scaled scales but doesn't exceed the size of the screen
<dobey> the extra area is filled with the color settings
<james_w> cool, thanks
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-17
<huats> morning !
<seb128> lut huats
<huats> hey seb128
<huats> how are you ?
<seb128> huats: the cold is getting better so good, you?
<huats> I think I am getting better too...
<huats> but I already have that false feeling earlier this week :)
<didrocks> morning ^^
<huats> plop didrocks
<seb128> lut didrocks
<didrocks> lut huats & seb128
<mvo> seb128: I think #281837 is now fixed too
<seb128> bug #281837
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281837 in update-notifier "merge of switcher, and logout is not presented to non-admin users" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281837
<seb128> mvo: good ;-)
<mvo> seb128: what is the latest status of the discussion about the applet? anything new?
<seb128> no
<seb128> mvo: did you discuss with vuntz yesterday? I had to run for sport
<seb128> you just started discussing when I had to go
<mvo> was a bit more work because I wanted to avoid that non-admin users see all the notification back from warty when they log into their new intrepid system :)
<mvo> briefly, he showed me the relevant code in the panel
<mvo> I check that out today I think
<mvo> I check it out today I think
<hggdh> seb128, good morning
<hggdh> seb128, I am making latest evo 2.24.1 svn right now. Unless something changed from yesterday to today, I still have wrong message counts in vfolder
<lapo> hi
<seb128> hggdh: hey, oh? I don't use vfolders but imap counts are correct, maybe try pinging srag about those
<hggdh> seb128, I am discussing it with srag now
<seb128> hggdh: oh you already did apparently ;-)
<seb128> right, just noticed
<hggdh> :-)
<seb128> hum, kvm on intrepid doesn't boot an hardy image
<seb128> does anybody has an hardy install there?
 * seb128 looks at mvo
<huats> seb128: I have one too...
<huats> if needed
<seb128> huats: can you add a recurrent event in evolution at some utc hour and see when the dst is happening for you?
<huats> seb128: doing it
<asac> argh. screen + irssi + gnome-terminal still behaves not-nice. wasnt there an upload about that the other day?
<asac> what i experience is that at some point things repaint in a corrupted way
<asac> i can trigger it easily by switching tabs back and forth in maximized gnome-terminal
<asac> hmm ... maximized is not the issue ... maybe its because of the small screen i havew
<asac> on my main production system i dont see this
<asac> just on X61 thinkpad (12 inch)
<asac> seb128: when will we get new tarballs?
<seb128> asac: what component?
<asac> i am missing my gnome terminal patch that landed upstream
<seb128> asac: the tarballs are due next week
<seb128> on monday usually
<seb128> some will probably be rolled before that though
<asac> seb128: didnt pitti or someone fix irssi + terminal?
<seb128> not that I know
<seb128> but I don't use irssi so I didn't pay attention
<asac> hmm ... what was the ubuntu2 upload about
 * asac looks
<asac> yeah. not about that issue. damn.
 * asac wonders why it became worse in last week(s)
<davmor2> guys can you check something out please.  bug 282316  I got 1:04 (1hour 4minutes) from upto 15seconds of recording.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282316 in gnome-media "[intrepid]erratic elapsed time count in "sound recorder" " [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282316
<pitti> asac: the upload was about making alt+n configurable again, as in previous releases
<tedg> pitti: I don't know that you'll have an opinion on bug 281971 but if you do, please comment.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281971 in fast-user-switch-applet ""Guest session" menu item can be confusing" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281971
<asac> pitti: yeah. thanks
<asac> i will see if i can understand what might cause these screen - irssi corruptions later today
<seb128> davmor2: what do you want to know exactly?
<davmor2> seb128: It's okay it got confirmed and pedro_ dealt with but thanks for getting back :)
<seb128> davmor2: there is lot of bugs which are waiting to be sent upstream you can do that if you want, there is no real point to ask on IRC to get those confirmed though
<seb128> davmor2: they are usually not confirmed because there is lot of bug and that's taking time not because we didn't read about the bug
<davmor2> seb128: Okay
<pitti> tedg: commented; thanks for pointing me at it
<mvo_> seb128: could you eyeball http://paste.ubuntu.com/58839/ please?
<seb128> mvo_: "+    based on the schema, useful for e.g. "
<seb128> mvo_: e.g. what? ;-)
<mvo_> heh .)
<mvo_> sounds like my thoughts were faster (or slower!) than my typing
<mvo_> seb128: if it is otherwise ok I update and upload
<seb128> mvo_: it looks alright from a first read but I don't know the configuration format details so still checking if I find something weird
<seb128> mvo_: ie, spending some time to understand correctly if what it's doing looks right to me too ;-)
<mvo_> thanks seb128! I did some testing here and it seems to be good, but double check always helps
<mvo_> seb128: I wait with the upload for your ok
<seb128> mvo_: is that normal that you don't set a position for the new applet?
<mvo_> seb128: its "0" in the gconf schema
<mvo_> I could add it just for make double sure it works
<seb128> mvo_: what schemas?
<mvo_> seb128: it gets it from /schemas/aps/panel/objects
<mvo_> seb128: and uses all keys there
<mvo_> seb128: I will be away for a bit but read backlog
<seb128> mvo_: ok, I just understood engine.associate_schema()
<seb128> mvo_: the code looks good, just upload
<pitti> didrocks: seems that this sambashare thing isn't as good as we thought yesterday
<pitti> didrocks: being in sambashare by default just helps for the initial configuration, but to use the shares you still need to log out and in (for getting the smbpasswd hash)
<didrocks> pitti: oh! It seemed that I tested that case...
<didrocks> pitti: ok, so, what I wanted to do will not work
<didrocks> get current session group id
<didrocks> check with getwpmd the group in /etc/group
<didrocks> and compare them to see if reloading a session is needed
<didrocks> but your case will not be detected :/
<pitti> didrocks: indeed; I think it's worth talking to slangasek about it (after rleease meeting), he knows samba itself inside out
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I will. When is the release meeting (today/now)? I do not find it in the fridge
<pitti> didrocks: running right now, for another 40 minutes
<pitti> didrocks: splendid, thanks!
<didrocks> pitti: you're welcome (let's find a way first ;))
<pitti> didrocks: it might  be too late for intrepid final, but if we get it in early in jaunty, we can maybe backport it and do a SRU
<didrocks> yes, for both intrepid and hardy
<didrocks> pitti: I will go back home now. I will contact Steve then (~ 40 minutes). Do you want I ping you (-motu/-devel)?
<pitti> didrocks: sure (not sure whether I'll still be around, but I'll at least read scrollback then)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, no pb :)
<mvo_> tedg: how good do you know the internals of g-s-s ? I'm debugging the bug #278112 right now and wonder why window_obscured_cb() (gs-manager.c:1348) calls the gs_manager_request_unlock() - that seems to be the culprit
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278112 in compiz "Screensaver doesn't start" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278112
<tedg> mvo_: Not that well.
<tedg> mvo_: Why do you think it's not a Compiz bug if it happens under Compiz but not metacity?
<mvo_> tedg: I think its a problem with the unredirect fullscreen stuff, apparently when XCompositeUnredirectWindow is called there is a map/unmap event generated, I suspect that this confuses g-s-s - its tricky to debug because of all the event watching/juggling that g-s-s does
<mvo_> tedg: I look deeper into it (for a bit at least, its getting late) - but it smells like something that needs fixing in g-s-s
<tedg> mvo_: Hmm, that would be certainly interesting.
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-18
<Hobbsee> hm, mines doesn't let you get highh scores, anymore
<Hobbsee> or at least, not on a guest account
<Burgundavia> Hobbsee: guest account likely has no write privs to the global high score list, as it is not in the games group
<Hobbsee> Burgundavia: ahhh.  I'd assumed they were all in each user's ~ or something.
<Burgundavia> nope
<Burgundavia> http://osdir.com/ml/apple.fink.beginners/2002-10/msg00236.html
<pochu> I guess it's too late to update Liferea to 1.4.20? (two bug fix releases)
<maco_> i just attached debdiffs to bug 285317 and bug 278418 ...can someone please take a look at them?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285317 in software-properties "There are two element bind to "Alt+C"" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285317
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278418 in gnome-menus "human-icon-theme no longer replaces System->Administration icon" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278418
#ubuntu-desktop 2008-10-19
<emma> What is this channel about?
<emma> What does the 'desktop' team do?
<crdlb> they go around to the homes of the real developers and make sure that their desktops are clear of clutter so that they can work more efficiently
<crdlb> it's an important job
<Nafallo> emma: the desktop... you know... Gnome.
<emma> crdlb: hehehe
<emma> Yes I know that GNOME is the DE in Ubuntu.
<emma> So this channel makes the Ubuntu version of GNOME?
<Nafallo> \o/
<Nafallo> no. channels doesn't make packages. people do.
<emma> you guys make packages?
<Hobbsee> pochu: erm, probably.  how big's the diff?
<emma> Well I'm glad I found this channel then. :)
<Hobbsee> pochu: and how stable is it, and have people tested it, and <etc, etc, etc>
<pochu> Hobbsee: not too big: http://pastebin.com/f38bfdf23
<pochu> Hobbsee: I've tested it for a couple of days, and it looked ok
<pochu> but I understand it's a bit risky now
<pochu> there are a couple of fixes for performance issues, which are right now the most important issue with Liferea
<pochu> (besides flash crashes, but not anything Liferea can do about)
<pochu> but those performance issues were in Hardy already
<Hobbsee> pochu: looks pretty small.  They're apparently only deleting non-translation code, according to that diffstat.
<dobey> fta: ping
<fta> dobey, ?
<dobey> fta: http://www.gnome.org/~dobey/cairo-bug.png
<dobey> fta: do you think that's the same issue as the mozilla fix solved?
<fta> could be, what app is that?
<dobey> it's a calendar widget i'm writing
<dobey> i just noticed that it was doing that when i drag another window over top of it
<dobey> if i shade/unshade the window though, it redraws ok
<fta> did you try the work-around from the bug we had months ago?
<fta> the Xorg one
<dobey> i don't know of a workaround
<dobey> i am on hardy still, btw
<dobey> or maybe my code is just wrong
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> doh. yeah, was my code
<fta> :)
<johanbr> Hmm. Why are the gnome mouse (or in my case, touchpad) sensitivity settings lost on suspend-to-ram?
<johanbr> Well, found a few relevant bugs, for instance https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/280148
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280148 in gnome-settings-daemon "After resume, ALPS touchpad fully functional, but with wrong settings" [Low,Triaged]
<seb128> huats: there?
<huats> seb128: yep
<huats> hey
<huats> :)
<huats> seb128: I am updating anjuta and gnome-build right now
<seb128> hello huats
<huats> :)
<seb128> huats: good!
<huats> how are you ?
<seb128> Ampelbein: there?
<seb128> huats: good, I got over my cold now
<huats> seb128: that was the question right ?
<huats> :)
<huats> great !
<seb128> ready for the 2.24.1 marathon ;-)
<seb128> you?
<huats> better too !
<huats> ready for it :)
<huats> if you need some help do not hesitate seb128
<huats> ..
<seb128> huats: thanks, do gnome-build and anjuta, then we can see what is next ;-)
<huats> :)
<huats> sure
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-12
<LaserJock> anybody know if if the indicator applet uses the user's icon theme at all or it's own?
<lifeless> LaserJock: users
<LaserJock> lifeless: ok
 * ccheney uploading new OOo build :)
<ccheney> whee only 14min to upload the diff.gz
<azteech> anyone have video out of range problems with both the install and livevd versions of 9.10? tried it both ways with my two machines and video being over driven out of range.
<azteech> and are there ways to get screen resolution set with the initial bootstrap screen to set resolution so I can get around the problem. I am using a Nvidia GeForce 7500 series card with 512mb
<dtchen> pitti: 20091012 (daily-live or daily) should resolve the "muted on boot" symptom
<superm1> dtchen, daily-live's are currently not functional, see bug 448981
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448981 in mountall "/var/run/dbus is not getting populated on live CDs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448981
<dtchen> superm1: that's fine; all the audio stack updates are in 20091012 anyhow
<superm1> dtchen, reminds me, i had something to ask you about.  it looked like fresh installs were having the mic muted on one of my laptops.  going into alsamixer it looks like it's because "Capture" isn't selected by default
<superm1> at least that's what changes if i have alsamixer open in terminal and uncheck the muted box in the gnome-media
<dtchen> well, that's ugly
<dtchen> that will take some fiddling with switch = foo in /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/analog-input.conf
<dtchen> again, we could unbreak it for some codecs at the cost of regressing others
<dtchen> some of this pain will go away in the next release of PA due to device profiles
<dtchen> (to be fair, that really means the burden of maintenance gets shifted into some other conffile)
<superm1> well what would you like out of me so that you can fully evaluate the best thing to do?
<superm1> i'm assuming apport-bug SOME_ALSA_PACKAGE filed from a fresh install?
<dtchen> the problem is that i have no idea how much hardware is being used, so i can only guess (poorly) at HDA codecs being dominant
<dtchen> we could use switch = on for [Element Capture]
<dtchen> that's going to break SB Lives, Audigys, certain crackfully rebranded X-Fis, ...
<superm1> in what fashion will it break those types of hardwares though?
<dtchen> "I can't hear anything played back through the speakers until I set Capture to nocap"
<superm1> fun fun
<superm1> is it not possible to query the launchpad hardware database to find out how prevalent certain codecs are?
<dtchen> it probably is possible, but we need to decide whether we care about legacy compatibility
<dtchen> if we don't care about hardware (older than five years) out of the box doing capture with no fiddling, then we could just set that one line
<superm1> so who makes that call then?
<dtchen> http://pastebin.com/d4aef3f1a
<dtchen> WRT accountability -- well, i don't mind doing it, seeing how i get the arse-end of bug reports anyhow
<dtchen> it's easy enough to revert, but it _is_ quite late in the cycle to do it
<superm1> well surely there will be a few more pulse uploads before the cycle is up, so if you put it in say the next upload and get some really bad feedback, you probably won't have to go out of your way for an upload "just for that"
<dtchen> i _really_ hope not to bribe TheMuso into uploading more than a couple times (:
 * ajmitch seems to have only seen HDA hardware lately
<TheMuso> dtchen: I think ac97 and hda are probably our two biggest, followed by Creative cards, as 5 or so years still = ac97 + creative hardware.
<TheMuso> As for pulse, well I hope we only ned one more upload at the absolute most.
<TheMuso> if that
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> dtchen: muted on boot solved> yay!
<didrocks> good morning pitti, did you have a good week-end?
<pitti> hey didrocks; I did, yes; and you?
<didrocks> pitti: short but great. I had a hard time in updating my book to karmic. Too many little changes that makes a bunch of stenza to rewrite :)
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, karmic turned a lot of stuff upside down :)
<didrocks> pitti: exactly, I didn't figure out at first glance that there were so many little things changing!
<seb128> good morning there
<mvo> good morning seb128!
<seb128> hey mvo, had a good week end?
<mvo> yes, a bit too rainy for me taste, but otherwise fine
<pitti> bonjour seb128, guten Morgen mvo
<seb128> it didn't rain for weeks, it's good to have some water sometime ;-)
<seb128> hey pitti
<didrocks> good morning seb128
<didrocks> hey mvo
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> good, you?
<seb128> did you have a good weekend?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, my weekend was quite relaxing. we had some family over on saturday and then i didn't do much yesterday
<tkamppeter_> pitti, hi
<seb128> over 800 bug emails during the weekend
<seb128> shrug
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - that's quite a lot. it doesn't help when certain users keep repeatedly reporting the same bug ;)
<seb128> yeah...
<Ng> mac_v: how much will I make you cry if I find a gnome-power-manager icon which isn't monochome? ;)
<Ng> I just plugged in a wireless mouse and it's giving me an icon about it having no battery left (which is a lie, but a separate bug)
<jpds> "plugged in a wireless mouse" ?
<mac_v> Ng: we just havent made icons for those ;p ....  damn it i hoped no one used those ;)
<mac_v> Ng: screenshot pls
<Ng> mac_v: http://mairukipa.tenshu.net/screenshots/2009-10-12-wireless-mouse-icon.png
<mac_v> yeah, thats the gpm-mouse-* icons
<mac_v> Ng: i guess you need to file a bug ;) else lool wont update those icons unless they are release critical, even if i make them
<Ng> mac_v: against which package?
<mac_v> Ng: humanity
<mac_v> humanity-icon-theme to the excapt
<Ng> k
<mac_v> exact*
<Ng> mac_v: done, bug #449334
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449334 in humanity-icon-theme "wireless mouse icons not monochrome" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449334
<mat_t> pitti: morning!
<pitti> hey mat_t
<mat_t> pitti: fade-out on shutdown doesn't work anymore :(
<mat_t> pitti: any idea what might have happened there?
<pitti> mat_t: I think so; -> #u-devel
<pitti> mat_t: oh, no Keybuk
<mat_t> pitti: do you mean "ask Keybuk"? :)
<mat_t> or "don't ask Keybuk"?
<mat_t> ;)
<pitti> mat_t: I just asked cjwatson in #u-devel, Keybuk/cjwatson did the recent changes
<seb128> hum
<seb128> why are we getting a "need to use the mouse to log in" stack of bugs no?
<seb128> now
<seb128> comments seem to indicate that changed recently
<seb128> pitti, did you do gdm changes recently?
<lool> Ng: Yeah we're deep in artwork/ui freezes so I need the design team to vouch for any required changes at this point
<lool> mac_v: Instead of sending people directly to me, get input of the design team first on the criticality of the fix
<lool> (If in doubt)
<mat_t> seb128: yeah, right now it seems like you have to make a selection with your mouse, hitting enter does not select the user
<seb128> wth?
<mac_v> lool: yup , i'v told mat_t too , that for any bug that is release critical  , it needs to be commented on the bug
<mac_v> by the UX
<seb128> I'm wondering if that's a theme issue
<seb128> since gdm didn't change recently out of theming...
<mat_t> seb128: isn't that because the user is not selected by default anymore?
<seb128> why wouldn't it?
<seb128> we didn't change that
<seb128> pitti, ^ do you know about that?
<mat_t> seb128: I know that we didn't want it to be, because of usability issues, but only provided that hitting enter would still work
<seb128> there was no recent gdm upload
<seb128> what changes to make the default user not selected and who did that?
<seb128> changed
<mat_t> seb128: I think someone changed it to "deselected" by default recently
<glatzor> hello mvo
<seb128> how?
<glatzor> morning seb128
<mat_t> seb128: I don't know! I certainly wasn't involved :)
<seb128> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+changelog has no sign of such change
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<mvo> glatzor: how are you?
<seb128> let me do testing, brb
<seb128> hey glatzor
<pitti> seb128: I wondered about that as well, and it annoys me too
<glatzor> mvo, fine! hope yourself too!
<mvo> glatzor: yeah, its release time, so a bit in crunch mode, but otherwise fine :)
<asac> seb128: hola ... would you mind if i upload a workaround patch for gnome-terminal profile selection not working ;)? http://pastebin.com/f42b7ed25
<mvo> glatzor: have you seen my mail/patches?
<asac> i can submit that upstream too ... but feels like its a gtk bug that "toggled" does not work
<pitti> seb128: wb
<pitti> seb128: I wondered about that as well, and it annoys me too
<pitti> seb128: it seems to work after restarting gdm, but not after initial boot
<pitti> seb128: I didn't change gdm recently, though
<pitti> seb128: it seems correlated with the "100% CPU" bug, thuogh
<seb128> weird
<pitti> seb128: <wild speculation> cryptsetup/gdm sharing one VT might also lead to cryptsetup intercepting the key presses?
<pitti> then again, the password entry does seem to work
<seb128> pitti, is that new? I don't get the issue there but I didn't upgrade during the weekend
<pitti> seb128: it's bug 439138; not really new, but I personally got it after the recent mesa upgrade last week
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439138 in usplash "[karmic] Xorg 100% CPU utilization -- only after first login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439138
<seb128> pitti, bug #447049
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447049 in gdm "face browser should respond to <enter> as well as a mouse click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447049
<glatzor> mvo, about the proxy?
<seb128> I've assigned to canonical desktop team and targetted karmic
<mvo> glatzor: yeah
<glatzor> mvo, ah, that is the reason for LP #448810
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448810 in aptdaemon "Update manager now requires two authentications" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448810
<mpt> Ah, I was just about to report bug 447049 :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447049 in gdm "face browser should respond to <enter> as well as a mouse click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447049
<pitti> seb128: replied
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<mvo> glatzor: yeah, I changed it to auth (I put a rational in the changelog that hopefully is clear why)
<mvo> auth_admin
<mpt> seb128, on my main partition I haven't yet installed whatever update it is that breaks Enter in GDM. So if you can think of other possible packages that might be causing the problem, I could update them one at a time and work out which it is.
<seb128> mpt, I didn't upgrade either so I will try there but thanks
<seb128> mpt, could you look to pitti's comment on the bug though?
<glatzor> mvo, but this changes the user experience a lot
<mpt> seb128, pitti hasn't commented on that bug report. Do you mean another bug report, or someone else?
<pitti> mpt: I just replied to bug 447049
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447049 in gdm "face browser should respond to <enter> as well as a mouse click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447049
<glatzor> mvo, now you need to be an admin user to be notified about updates
<mpt> oh, I was two minutes out of date :-)
<mpt> pitti, if I upgraded I probably wouldn't be able to tell whether I was experiencing bug 439138, because I've been experiencing bug 447231, which would mask it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439138 in usplash "[karmic] Xorg 100% CPU utilization -- only after first login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439138
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447231 in xorg "Xorg constantly uses near-100% CPU after 9.04->Karmic upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447231
<pitti> mpt: it should still work after logging out of the first session, though
<mpt> pitti, sorry, by "it should still work" do you mean "GDM should start behaving properly", or something else?
<pitti> mpt: yes
<mpt> hm, actually, on my clean Karmic installation I have the GDM problem but I don't have any CPU problem at all
<pitti> I get the effect for the gdm after boot, and then X.org 100%, log out, get back to gdm, and pressing Enter works
<mpt> I will install all updates on that other installation, check it, and be back in 10 minutes
<mvo> glatzor: hm, maybe we should change it then to only ask if there is a proxy in use?
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hi tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, have you seen bug 448769 and duplicates? Seems that on an update from Jaunty (or older) to Karmic the cupsd.conf gets completely wiped out.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448769 in cups "Printing broke on upgrade to Karmic [cupsd = signal 15] (dup-of: 429138)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448769
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429138 in cups "cups exits with "No valid Listen or Ports lines"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429138
<mpt> pitti: ... no, I have the GDM problem but no CPU problem
<pitti> mpt: ok, so it seems unrelated then
<davmor2> pitti: just running some tests on today's iso it seems to drop into in terminal login rather than gdm, just checking things through.
<davmor2> pitti: okay that's worrying ps aux | grep gdm nothing but the grep command.  sudo start gdm then ps aux | grep gdm nothing but grep gdm :(
<tkamppeter> pitti, do you have any idea how the cupsd.conf get get wiped out when updating from Jaunty or older to Karmic?
<pitti> re
<pitti> davmor2: eww; can you try "sudo gdm-binary --debug" and check what it complains about?
<pitti> tkamppeter: no, not really; didn't we discuss that some days ago in #u-devel?
<davmor2> pitti: I've start bug 449454 where I've added the syslog output but I'll do that for you and add the info to the bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449454 in ubuntu "Ubuntu has no gdm and no xsplash on todays iso" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449454
<pitti> davmor2: ah, thanks
<davmor2> pitti: added out put
<davmor2> pitti: Also I've check that there are no issues with the burn
<pitti> davmor2: oh! no d-bus running?
<davmor2> pitti: should dbus show up in ps aux?
<pitti> 102        588  0.0  0.1  24480  2168 ?        Ss   07:52   0:01 dbus-daemon --system --fork
<pitti> something like this
<davmor2> nope only get the grep dbus showing up
<seb128> bug #438936 seems to confuse quite some user
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438936 in indicator-session "Should be able to lock screen with autologin" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438936
<seb128> I don't get the design decision behind blocking screen locking for autologin configs
<mvo> seb128: eh? so you can not lock your sesion at all with autologin enabled?
<seb128> mvo, you can but ted decided that the session indicator would have the option not enabled
<seb128> mvo, seems it's a design decision to not confuse users who don't remember their password or something
<mvo> that does not sound like it makes a lot of sense (especially if ctrl-l keeps working)
<seb128> mvo, I don't really get it...
<seb128> I think the rational is that "you use autologin so you should never have to type a password"
<seb128> or something around those lines
<mac_v> seb128: seems some netbook users dont remember their passwords :/   well thats what tedg said , not sure how he got that user feedback...  for now , i autologin and then switch off the autologin ;p
<seb128> that doesn't make sense to me
<seb128> we still lock on suspend for example
<seb128> and there is lot of valid reason to lock an autologed session
<mac_v> doesnt make sense for me either ;)
<pitti> seb128: that sounds confusing; why wouldn't I want to lock my screen with autologin?
<seb128> like being in a public place and letting the computer while getting a coffee or something
<pitti> but "never having to type my password" != autologin..
<seb128> pitti, because you don't manage to remember your password
<pitti> but you need it for admin stuff etc. as well
<pitti> autologin is just a convenience for a clean session
<pitti> but I guess I'm preaching to the choir
<seb128> not sure if that comes from ted or is a design team suggestion
<seb128> I will talk to ted again when he's around
<mac_v> pitti , seb128: mpt suggested some changes for that > Bug #436724 , but seems its not possible to get that done for karmic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436724 in indicator-session "lock screen doesn't work" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436724
<pitti> it should only be hidden when teh password is disabled
<seb128> right
<seb128> "It would seem like if you specifically ask it to lock, it should. On
<seb128> the other hand, if you accidentally hit the menu item and you've got no
<seb128> clue of your password, that's no good as well.
<seb128> Thoughts? I'm leaning towards disabling the menu item with autologin."
<seb128> bah
<seb128> "I suggest that if someone sets themselves up to log in automatically, the "Lock Screen" command is insensitive by default."
<seb128> designers...
<pitti> well, forgetting your own password is a rather curious use case
<mac_v> mpt: also , why do you want the lock screen to be greyed out ? why not hide the option for users who auto-login ? this is not a static menu structure where users need to be familiar with , why not just hide it for those users?
<seb128> I'm tempted to distro patch that out for karmic
<pitti> we shouldn't disable important functionality to make it easier for people to not use computers in a secure manner
<mpt> mac_v, that makes sense
<seb128> but why do you want to prevent autologed users to lock their screen?
<pitti> seb128: I'm fine with a quick distro patch, but eventually it should be fixed "upstream", too
<pitti> that just makes no sense
<pitti> seb128: I commented on that bug, but it's already closed; should we reopen?
<mac_v> mpt: kindly alter the suggestion then :)
<mpt> mac_v, so that seb128 can "bah" at me again? :-)
<seb128> pitti, there is an another bug
<seb128> bug #438936
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438936 in indicator-session "Should be able to lock screen with autologin" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438936
<mpt> seb128, because I thought they probably wouldn't know their password in that case
<seb128> mpt, I don't bah at you especially, but preventing users to secure their box when they need to is weird
<mac_v> mpt: ;) .. but we might forget this and it might get implemented as-is :)
<seb128> mpt, if you forget your password you have lot of other issues, like not being to do any admin tasks or to log into the box after suspend
<seb128> mpt, it seems inconsistent to enforce that in the menu when suspend will lock the screen anyway for example
<mpt> seb128, yes, this wouldn't be an issue for admins
<seb128> mpt, it is right now in karmic
<mpt> seb128, I never suggested that suspend should act differently! If someone can't lock the screen, suspending shouldn't lock the screen.
<mac_v> mpt: yeah , the suspend locks screen on resume [by default]
<mac_v> also the option to not prompt for password is very well hidden in the gconf
<seb128> mpt, ok, that just seems an half working solution not clearly design, I would suggest letting the indicator session menu lock screen since that's not the right place to enforce that
<mpt> seb128, yes, this whole mess has never been designed properly
<seb128> if you want to disable screen locking that should be done in a consistent way over the session
<seb128> ok, good
<seb128> let's undo the indicator session change and work on proper changes next cycle
<seb128> I will talk to ted when he's there
<mac_v> \o/
<joaopinto> seb128, any chance of including the fix for bug 432558 ? I have seen more people on #ubuntu+1 unable to login into msn, could be related to this bug for which a fix is already available
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432558 in telepathy-butterfly "telepathy-butterfly crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in _print_MSG()" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432558
<joaopinto> hum, wait, fix released ?
<seb128> joaopinto, I think there was a mess with sponsoring request,  2 bugs opened, no debdiff and no reply to dholbach's comment on the other one
<joaopinto> there was no evidente on the other one that it was the same bug
<joaopinto> evidence
<joaopinto> it's a one line diff, something easy to check
<seb128> right, I will check with dholbach why he didn't upload and sponsor it later if there is no reason
<joaopinto> ok, tks
<seb128> kenvandine, could you look at bug #448300? what is the right component for ubuntuone addressbook issues
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448300 in evolution "[Karmic] In the adressbook (contactbook) in Evolution Epost. I can not delete any adresses on Ubuntu One contact book. " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448300
<kenvandine> seb128, that should be evolution-couchdb
<seb128> kenvandine, ok thanks, can you have a quick look and reassign?
<kenvandine> seb128, rodrigo has fixed it in couchdb-glib already and has a fix for evo-couch too
<kenvandine> sure
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks!
<seb128> good that I asked you, you seem to have a clue about the issue ;-)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> i should have a packaging branch for it in a bit
<kenvandine> technically a holiday here, so will do it after i run some errands this morning
<seb128> oh I didn't know, sorry about that, there is no hurry
<kenvandine> no worries
<kenvandine> it was on my todo list :)
<kenvandine> seb128, so you probably won't see much of rick either :)
<seb128> good, I will be able to get work done ;-)
<seb128> oh, he's not around to read that, not fun then
<kenvandine> seb128, can you sponsor bug 447162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447162 in evolution-couchdb "Change notifications don't get to evolution UI" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447162
<kenvandine> i think that fixes 448300, but i need to confirm that with rodrigo
<seb128> will do some sponsoring when I'm done with weekend backlog
<kenvandine> thx
 * kenvandine runs out
<pitti> kenvandine, seb128: I'll sponsor while seb128 is debugging something for me (fair trade :) )
<tkamppeter> pitti, I think, we did not discuss the wiping out of cupsd.conf, we only discussed about maintainer scripts not to modify conffiles to avoid "conffile changed" questions during installation/update.
<pitti> tkamppeter: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/10/07/%23ubuntu-devel.html, 14:49 onwards
<kwwii> seb128: #444421 is fixed. Robert was right, it tests fine...change is in bzr already
<seb128> ok
<tkamppeter> pitti, sorry, let's go to another problem: In bug 444126 a user cannot print because a manufacturer driver package looks for libcupsys.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444126 in cups "Canon ip2600 Printer won't print, but Ubuntu says it is." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444126
<pitti> tkamppeter: replied in the bug
<seb128> hey tedg
<seb128> tedg, so it has been decided that indicator session should let autologed users lock screen
<seb128> tedg, can you change that upstream or do we need to distro change it? ;-)
<davmor2> pitti: wrt bug 449454 cr3 is getting a mixed result so we are wondering if it might be a race condition :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449454 in dbus "Ubuntu has no gdm and no xsplash on todays iso" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449454
<pitti> davmor2: it certainly is; I remember that we already have had the "dbus doesn't start" problem a few weeks ago (Keybuk will still painfully remember, I guess)
<tedg> seb128: So what's your plan for users that use autologin and don't know their password?
<seb128> tedg, we lock screen on let's say suspend anyway
<tedg> seb128: Only with GPM, not from the session menu.
<tedg> seb128: We should probably patch GPM then :)
<pitti> tedg: suspend from indicate menu locks the session
<seb128> tedg, it doesn't make sense to patch one software to not behave in a consistent way there
<seb128> tedg, if you want to prevent screen locking you should do it for the whole session
<seb128> ie change the gnome-screensaver key
<tedg> pitti: With autologin enabled?  It shouldn't.
<pitti> tedg: I didn't try that
<seb128> tedg, well it does when closing the lid
<seb128> tedg, users who don't know their password is something that should not happen
<seb128> you need to password in lot of cases
<seb128> admin tools, unlocking, user switching
<pitti> you need it anyway for gnome-keyring, admin, etc.?
<seb128> if you want to allow a "no password" mode that's not by hacking around in indicator session
<tedg> "should not" and "doesn't" are very separate cases.
<seb128> you need to design that properly rather
<tedg> pitti: Thinking more non-admin users.
<seb128> the user who forgets the password is screwed
<seb128> you still need to unlock your keyring
<pitti> tedg: but if you really don't want a password, then you should lock/disable the password rather, no?
<tedg> pitti: How do you lock/disable the password
<tedg> ?
<pitti> passwd -l
<tedg> pitti: Without the command line :)
<pitti> we never really supported that mode
<pitti> if we want to introduce a concept of passwordless accounts, then we need to do that on all levels
<tedg> What should happen on the LiveCD?
<pitti> that does have an empty password
<tedg> pitti: How do we test for that?
<pitti> with normal user privs you can't really
<seb128> tedg, why do you want to test? you can lock screen and unlock using enter
<pitti> except for just trying
<tedg> seb128: Because I don't want to tell someone they can "Lock Screen" if they can't.
<pitti> i. e. piping '' into unix_chkpwd
<pitti> but that leaves traces in auth.log
<tedg> pitti: And just trying would be bad, right?
<seb128> tedg, you can lock it, you just need an empty password to unlock
<pitti> tedg: well, just noisy in auth.log, not really bad
<tedg> seb128: Honestly, that would be the best security for me.  I'd probably try "ubuntu" with a thousand different spellings before guessing no password :)
<seb128> tedg, now is not time to try to solve those case for karmic, lot of places need a password there is no point to try to enforce something new in indicator session there
<tedg> Well, you guys design it.  How should it work?  It would probably be easier to distro patch as it's probably a 1-2 line change.
<tedg> Adding the checking for null password would take longer.
<tedg> (but you knew that) :)
<tedg> It seems like it should still be insensitive for guest sessions.
<mac_v> tedg: mpt is now considering not showing the option than making it insensitive
<mpt> mac_v, actually tedg and I just discussed it
<mpt> and I'm fine with just allowing locking for now
<mac_v> oh lol ;)
<mpt> I didn't know it was allowed before.
<tedg> mac_v: Well, my personal thought is that it should change to "Blank Screen" and activate the screensaver.
<tedg> I like "Activate Screensaver" but that'd probably make the menu too wide.
<mac_v> tedg: but still its not as secure as screen locking ;)
<dobey> "Save Screen"
<dobey> it's like "Save Ferris" but won't infringe on any (C) or (TM)
<tedg> dobey: Then we could have "Save Screen to Disk" for screenshots ;)
<seb128> didrocks, do you think you will do the mutter update?
<dobey> tedg: but what if i don't want to save it to disk?
<seb128> tedg, you speak about cases with no password though right? because I've a password and I know it and I lock screen
<dobey> maybe i want to save it to a lithograph to hang on my wall
<seb128> tedg, and I don't get while you want to force me to let my laptop unlock at confs when getting coffee ;-)
<davmor2> Keybuk: is there anything else I can add to bug 449454?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449454 in dbus "Ubuntu has no gdm and no xsplash on todays iso" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449454
<Keybuk> davmor2: not following that bug
<corp186> I want to step through some evdev xorg handling in karmic (found a regression somewhere between jaunty and karmic)
<corp186> I installed the dbgsym packages
<corp186> and all the files seem to be there
<corp186> but gdb just spits out stuff like:
<corp186> Reading symbols from /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input//evdev_drv.so...Reading symbols from /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/xorg/modules/input/evdev_drv.so...done.
<corp186> (no debugging symbols found)...done.
<corp186> any idea what's going wrong?
<didrocks> seb128: I wanted to do it this week-end but I finally saw it has been synced from debian unstable
<seb128> didrocks, synced?
<didrocks> let me searched again. I have some debian sources in my sources.list I've maybe not checked that
<didrocks> just remind that now we are speaking about it :)
<didrocks> yeah, next time, I will comment those lines in my sources.list (apt-pinning seems to not work with deb-src)
<didrocks> so, I'll do it this evening, shouldn't take long
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
 * asac nm debugging bbl
<dobey> seb128, pitti: care to take care of bug #449615 please? :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449615 in ubuntuone-storage-protocol "Please update to 1.0.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449615
<seb128> I will do sponsoring later
<seb128> debugging some other things right now
<dobey> seb128: ok, cool
<pgraner> cking: ping
<cking> pgraner, hi
<pgraner> cking: I tried to swap out the POS broadcom on my HP mini and it has a whitelist of allowed cards it wouldn't boot with the intel card in it
<pgraner> :-/
<cking> That's disappointing. What's wrong with the broadcom, apart from being unmaintainable binary blob?
<pgraner> cking: not very stable at close range to the AP (like my office)
<pgraner> cking: just thought you'd like to know
<cking> pgraner, what intel card is it?
<cking> ..and does the broadcom work when you put it back in?
<cking> pgraner, strange, I've seen zero issues with the broadcom with my HP mini on loads of different APs
<pgraner> cking: I tried the 3945 & the new beta one puma peak
<cking> it's all that small form factor PCI stuff - hrm should work - that's just plain weird. You've had zero netbook luck sofar
<cking> pgraner, you will have the debugging kit (aka screwdrivers etc) around next week - I will poke around with it next week if we have some spare time.
<pgraner> cking: yep, I'll have everything there plus some
<cking> cool - we've got that other HP mini in the box of parts, I will experiment with that one ;-)
<pgraner> cking: I don't see much difference between the PV model and the production
<pgraner> cking: I'll have to pry my mini out of the wifes cold dead hands
<pgraner> cking: she has decided she likes it
<cking> :-)
<cking> yeah - small form factor == cute == females like them
<cking> (netbooks that is)
<cking> cking, not much difference between PV and production models (apart from a capacitor missing)
<pgraner> cking: cool, can the PV be upgraded to the latest production BIOS?
<cking> yep
<cking> pgraner, you need a DOS boot disk on a USB stick to do it though
<pgraner> cking: got one of them, just wanted to be sure I wouldn't brick it
<cking> which PV are you referring to
<pgraner> cking: the mini in the travel box
<pgraner> cking: lets move this to #u-kernel, I didn't realize we were in #u-dekstop
<didrocks> seb128: new mutter uploaded
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: y/w
<pitti> bye everyone, Taekwondo time
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
<chrisccoulson> you've been quiet on here recently ;)
<chrisccoulson> (or we're on here at different times)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hey!
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: yes, I had a lot of stuff to do at work :)
<chrisccoulson> heh, it sucks when that happens ;)
<didrocks> but well, quickly 0.2.4 is just released \o/
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: exactly ^^
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i just saw:)
<didrocks> oh, do you look at each karmic-changes ? :)
<chrisccoulson> are you going to UDS?
<chrisccoulson> i always look at karmic-changes;)
<didrocks> yes, you still can't go to UDS ?
<chrisccoulson> i can't, i don't think it would be fair of me to leave Jo right after she has the baby;)
<chrisccoulson> i wish i could go though!
<didrocks> oh, the timeline is very straight, sure :)
<didrocks> in 6 month will be a better time for you, I hope so :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, she will arrive any time between now and the middle of november
<chrisccoulson> yeah, hopefully 6 months time will be better;)
<chrisccoulson> i still haven't met anybody from the community yet
<didrocks> I hope you will still have some free time for yourself ^^
<chrisccoulson> i really need to be more sociable ;)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks - so do i:)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hehe geeks aren't sociable ;)
<chrisccoulson> people keep telling me that i probably wont, but i don't want it to come to that really;)
<dtchen> oh that is so unfair (:
<didrocks> I can understand. huats is keeping to tell that everyday too :)
<chrisccoulson> dtchen - ?
<dtchen> < didrocks> chrisccoulson: hehe geeks aren't sociable ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol, yeah. i definately fit that stereotype;)
<didrocks> dtchen: it all depends, when you have geek meeting, we are sociable I guessâ¦ otherwise :)
<chrisccoulson> i need to attend geek meeting then ;)
<didrocks> let's s/aren't sociable/are shy :)
<didrocks> dtchen: is that better ? ;)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: hehe, you will soon, sure ^^
<chrisccoulson> i'll have to teach my daughter to be a geek!
<didrocks> hehe, poor of her!
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> she has a good role model ;)
<chrisccoulson> anyway, dinner time for me now
<chrisccoulson> bbl:)
<didrocks> have a good evening :)
<chrisccoulson> vuntz|away: any thoughts about bug 437425?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437425 in gnome-session "gnome-session crashed with SIGSEGV in SmsDie()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437425
<seb128> didrocks, there?
<didrocks> seb128: yes
<seb128> didrocks, didn't you say you would update clutter to 1.0.6 some time ago?
<didrocks> seb128: hum, maybe my memory is messed up with all the "missing dependencies" we had in main, let me check if everything is ok now
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: I guess you need it for new GNOME shell, right?
<seb128> didrocks, oh, I didn't check that, there is just a sponsoring request about fixing the documentation installation and I was starting to look if debian has the change and noticed we are not current
<didrocks> seb128: do you want me to fix the documention installation too?
<didrocks> I know what was wrong on it
<seb128> didrocks, bug #439921 has a patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439921 in clutter-1.0 "libclutter-1.0-doc doesn't appear in devhelp" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439921
<seb128> didrocks, just check if that looks correct to you
<seb128> didrocks, thanks!
<didrocks> didrocks: I guess it's not correct, we need to patch .devhelp file too to reference clutter-1.0 instead of clutter
<didrocks> y/w
<seb128> didrocks, stop talking to yourself you freak now ;-)
<didrocks> oupssss :)
<seb128> didrocks, hehehe ;-)
<mac_v> seb128: hi... when you invalidate bugs , like the .txt subtitle auto-load in totem bug... could you pls invalidate the papercuts task too :)  ... i usually just follow you and say "as per your comment" ;p
<seb128> mac_v, ok will do
<mac_v> seb128: thanks :)
<didrocks> seb128: the patch doesn't work and it's a bit late for experimenting with gtk-doc option to avoid making some sed in files. I'll do it tomorrow consequently
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> didrocks, do you want me to upload to update and fix the documentation later or just delay the upload?
<didrocks> seb128: have a good night :)
<didrocks> seb128: as you wish, the update works, but I'm interested in the fix
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<seb128> didrocks, let's wait then, can you just drop a comment on the sponsoring bug?
<seb128> saying that it doesn't work but that you will work on it
<didrocks> ok, doing it right now before going to bed :)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<didrocks> thanks, good night too :)
<chrisccoulson> night didrocks
<didrocks> night chrisccoulson
<dobey> seb128: just filed #449881 too. sorry it's so late. i definitely owe you beers in dallas :)
<seb128> dobey, that's ok, looking now, and I will not say no to a beer at uds ;-)
<seb128> bug #449881
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449881 in ubuntuone-client "Please update to 1.0.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449881
<dobey> seb128: whenever i try to do an ubuntuone-client release, i always end up having to do a lot more work than i'd planned on doing :P
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> this one should be the karmic version right?
<dobey> yeah
<seb128> impressive list of bug fixed there!
<seb128> good work ;-)
<dobey> there *might* be a 1.0.1 for karmic, if a couple of open bugs get fixed in the next week or so, as they might be criticals. but we can work through the freeze exception/etc... to get that if needed
<dobey> but i really hope this is the karmic final version :)
<seb128> hum
<seb128> dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to ubuntuone-client-1.0.0/data/icons/16x16/emblems/emblem-ubuntuone-uploading.png: binary file contents changed
<seb128> images divert between the tarball and bzr
<seb128> dobey, did you merge the upstream change to the packaging bzr?
<dobey> weird
<dobey> hrmm
<dobey> i did a diff -uNr to see what files were different between the tarball and the packaging bzr
<dobey> and removed/added as needed
<dobey> but i guess a few binary files got skipped by diff
<seb128> dobey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/291908/
<seb128> that's the list dpkg-buildpackage complains about
<dobey> seb128: fixing right now
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> you don't simply bzr merge the upstream code when doing a package update?
<kwwii> seb128: sorry for bothering, so late, but should I make a sponsoring bug for the human-theme change to fix the gdm button-size bug?
<seb128> kwwii, where is the change?
<kwwii> ie, is there any chance of this change making it into karmic before an update?
<kwwii> seb128: lp:human-theme
<kwwii> and bug 444421
<seb128> kwwii, do you plan other changes? or would you like the bzr version uploaded now?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444421 in human-theme ""Login" button is smaller than the "Cancel" button in the GDM theme" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444421
<kwwii> Robert Ancells suggestion worked perfectly ;)
<seb128> good
<dobey> seb128: no, upstream code doesn't include generated files
<kwwii> funny thing is, I tried the same change and it didn't seem to fix it ;) Now I know it works
<dobey> seb128: package branches are supposed to have tarball contents, not upstream bzr, as i understand
<dobey> seb128: pushed the fix just now though
<seb128> dobey, well since tarballs are rolled from the upstream bzr that should be the same
<dobey> seb128: how would it be the same? All the autoconf/libtool/automake/etc... generated bits aren't in bzr
<seb128> kwwii, that's what you say now, let some credit to robert_ancell ;-)
<dobey> (nor should they be)
<seb128> dobey, no but the bzr mode we use for build basically just use the debian directory from the bzr and apply it to the tarball
<seb128> + the extra diff between upstream bzr and packaging bzr
<dobey> i don't understand
<dobey> where does it get the tarball from?
<seb128> http://launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/trunk/w25-karmic-finalfreeze/+download/ubuntuone-client-1.0.0.tar.gz
<kwwii> seb128: all the credit goes to him, really ;)
<seb128> dobey, what is described in the debian watch
<dobey> oh it downloads whatever's in the watch file? i thought it used the contents of the branch to build the tarball
<seb128> dobey, no, we don't use this mode usually
<seb128> dobey, for the reason you said
<seb128> kwwii, hum, your version number is wrong and I've a weird diff after build
<dobey> is there a document somewhere describing all these 'modes' and how they work exactly?
<dobey> i want to better understand it, so i can make my life easier :)
<seb128> kwwii, some index.theme get dropped
<kwwii> seb128: ouch, that is not right
<seb128> james_w, ^ do you know?
<kwwii> let me check
<seb128> kwwii, it's weird the bzr diff looks correct
<kwwii> seb128: all I did was edit the gtkrc in HumanLogin theme...
<kwwii> the bzr commit didn't show anything like that
<seb128> I will apply by hand and check with pitti how he builds things usually
<kwwii> let me check, one second...booting my other computer
<seb128> kwwii, don't bother
<seb128> kwwii, I will apply r88 to the current karmic version
<seb128> kwwii, and sort bzr with pitti tomorrow
<kwwii> seb128: cool, thanks
<kwwii> to be honest, I wanted to add some icons for gdm as well (got them done tonight)
<seb128> kwwii, want to do that now?
<kwwii> sure, if you give me the time ;)
<seb128> how much do you need?
<seb128> I will probably not be around much longer than half an hour now
<kwwii> just need to copy the icons to the other computer and make the changes
<seb128> kwwii, ok, the index.theme difference seems a bug in the current karmic version
<kwwii> give me 5 minutes
<seb128> those are in a build directory in the source
<kwwii> seb128: which index.theme file?
<seb128> seems that somebody did test build, make clean and built again
<seb128> and the clean left some build files there
<kwwii> ohhh
<kwwii> funky
<seb128> kwwii, just focus on getting your icons done and I will sponsor the upload
<kwwii> seb128: thanks, be done in a flash
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> dobey, ok, your update builds now ;-)
<chrisccoulson> pah, bug 437425 is confusing me
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437425 in gnome-session "gnome-session crashed with SIGSEGV in SmsDie()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437425
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how so?
<robert_ancell> seb128, bug 427462 - in ubuntu are system users uid < 1000?  I believe gdm is set to 500 and that is considered the "standard"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427462 in gdm "login screen is showing user below 1000" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427462
<dobey> seb128: yay. thanks for pointing out the issue. i guess i should ping james_w about documentation for all the modes and how they work?
<seb128> robert_ancell, http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html
<seb128> dobey, you're welcome, yes for example
<didrocks> seb128: I wasn't able to get some sleep, so: bug #449894 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449894 in clutter-1.0 "Please, update clutter 1.0.6 to karmic" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449894
<seb128> robert_ancell, "9.2.2 UID and GID classes"
<dobey> alright. i'll ping him tomorrow i guess
<seb128> robert_ancell, I think we do the same as debian there
<robert_ancell> seb128, thanks
<seb128> robert_ancell, you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - AFAICT, smsConn shouldn't be in that state until after the client has disconnected and removed from the list of clients
<chrisccoulson> but it's still in the list, else it wouldn't be told to stop
<seb128> didrocks, you rock ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that's out of my domain I think so I can't really comment there but good luck tracking it ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: hehe, thanks. Time to really try to go to bed now. I wake up way too early :-)
<chrisccoulson> heh, maybe i'll leave it for vuntz instead;)
<didrocks> good night (again) everybody :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, see /etc/adduser.conf too
<seb128> didrocks, 'night
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw nautilus has gconf key to not exit when there is no open ui element in karmic
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm wondering if we should set that on as a workaround for those restart issue, not sure if those user try to get nautilus not running or just to get something else drawing their background
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, i didn't realise that
<chrisccoulson> that sounds like a better solution rather than having it just exit and not restart again
<chrisccoulson> and for users who genuinely don't want nautilus running at all - they can just disable it in their session
<seb128> right
<chrisccoulson> i don't think nyarnon likes me very much
<seb128> ignore such comments
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i generally try to
<chrisccoulson> but configuring nautilus to not exit when it doesn't draw the background sounds like a good compromise
<seb128> I will do the autostart workaround for now and wait for user comments
<seb128> I've the feeling that most user just don't want nautilus running
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you're welcome but there is nothing really to thank me about there ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh, i'm sure i can find something to thank you for!
<seb128> I can play this game too if you want ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> ok, changing the autostart key
<seb128> I think the gconf key might be a nicer way but is a behaviour change which could confuse users
<seb128> not sure if we should do such changes just before karmic
<seb128> let's try that next cycle
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that's probably best for next cycle now
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw do you have enough bugs on your list for the day?
<kwwii> seb128: hrm, can't figure out the right name for the interface...I'll test all the other possibilities tomorrow
<kwwii> system-* or gnome-session-* doesn't seem to work
<seb128> kwwii, what inferface?
<seb128> interface
<kwwii> the interface in gdm when you press the power button long enough
<robert_ancell> seb128, I should be busy enough but let me know if there are any high prio. bugs around
<kwwii> with shutdown, reboot, hibernate, et
<kwwii> c
<chrisccoulson> kwwii - you want icon names for the session dialog?
<seb128> robert_ancell, no high priority one no, something broke the gdm "hit enter to active your user"
<chrisccoulson> kwwii - i have the gnome-session source open here, so i can probably give you those now
<chrisccoulson> (if we're thinking about the same thing)
<robert_ancell> seb128, rickspencer3 already assigned that to me
<kwwii> chrisccoulson: yes, please ;)
<chrisccoulson> one second:)
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, I though rick was on holiday today, he must have been lurking on some bugs
<seb128> robert_ancell, thanks ;-)
<chrisccoulson> kwwii - the session dialog is an ubuntu-specific patch, and the icon names look like:
<chrisccoulson> shutdown = "system-shutdown"
<chrisccoulson> restart = "view-refresh"
<chrisccoulson> hibernate = "drive-harddisk"
<chrisccoulson> suspend = "sleep"
<chrisccoulson> are those the ones you need icons for?
<kwwii> chrisccoulson: yes, I think that will work, let me test it
<chrisccoulson> cool:)
<kwwii> chrisccoulson: hrm, that worked to an extent
<chrisccoulson> what bit didn't work?
<kwwii> the hibernate was wrong
<chrisccoulson> hmmm
<chrisccoulson> that's strange
<chrisccoulson> what is the correct icon for that?
<kwwii> yeah I thought so too
<kwwii> let me check what happens after a reboo
<kwwii> t
<seb128> kwwii, enough for me for today, the update can probably wait tomorrow
<kwwii> suspend and hibernate are still the wrong icons
<kwwii> seb128: cool, I need to figure it out anyway
<kwwii> sleep well, see you soon
<seb128> kwwii, I can help you having a look tomorrow if you want
<chrisccoulson> kwwii - i wonder if we're thinking about the same dialog?
<seb128> you should go to bed too ;-)
<chrisccoulson> night seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson, he said the gdm one but I never tried to press power there
<kwwii> seb128: no doubt
<seb128> I would assume it's gnome-session being used too
<seb128> but I didn't check
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i would have thought so too
<kwwii> chrisccoulson: I am talking about the dialog in gdm when you press the power button on your laptop long enough
<seb128> "long enough"?
<kwwii> it seemed like gnome-session-* names should work
<chrisccoulson> kwwii - yeah, that *should* be the session dialog AFAIK, which should be the same one that would appear if you pressed the power button in a user session
<seb128> I just need to press the button once there
<kwwii> chrisccoulson: yeah, that is what I thought too
<chrisccoulson> is it a different dialog?
<seb128> and I confirm it's the same dialog there
<kwwii> it doesn't seem to be different
<seb128> so what is not working?
<kwwii> maybe I didn't test it correctly before, let me try again
<seb128> you might have not installed your icons correctly?
<kwwii> the nice thing about the icon theme spec is that, as long the icons are named correctly it should work no matter where they are placed, directoy-wise
<kwwii> I think I figured it out for most of them...still need to create one icon
<kwwii> seb128: I'll bug you tomorrow morning
<dobey> well
<seb128> ok
<seb128> 'night everybody
<dobey> except the directory layout needs to be standardized too
<kwwii> dobey: ?
<dobey> kwwii: there are some concepts/tools that will fail to work if you use a weird directory structure in the theme (like humanity does)
 * chrisccoulson wonders when libglib2.0-0-refdbg appeared in the archive
<chrisccoulson> that could be useful for debuggin wierd crashers
<chrisccoulson> /debuggin/debugging
<kwwii> dobey: yeah, I thought of the same thing, but I don't use anything to make the theme except for python )
<kwwii> :)
<kwwii> chrisccoulson: I think I figured it out, thanks for the help with the names
<kwwii> time for sleeÃ¼p
<kwwii> sleep
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
<kwwii> see you
<chrisccoulson> night kwwii
<kwwii> night, and *hugs* ;)
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-13
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey, could you sponsor the latest gcalctool to main?  Last day tomorrow for getting stuff in right...
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: RC freeze is tomorrow, I'll get to it in a bit.
<TheMuso> s/tomorrow/thursday
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, np, thanks
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, hiya
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hey, back from lunch
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, welcome back
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, did you see bug 447049
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447049 in gdm "Login screen face browser should respond to keyboard as well as a mouse click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447049
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<rickspencer3> how was your weekend?
<rickspencer3> hi robert_ancell_ are you here for reals?
<rickspencer3> ")
<robert_ancell_> rickspencer3, trying to be, my network seems to be having some problems (tcp/ip stalls)
<rickspencer3> bummer
<rickspencer3> I'll keep it short while I have you attention then :)
<robert_ancell_> been happening quite a bit lately. I would chase up the ISP but that never works :)
<rickspencer3> bug 447049
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447049 in gdm "Login screen face browser should respond to keyboard as well as a mouse click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447049
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell_ seems that in certain cases, the greater does not have focus, and there is no way to log in without a mouse :(
<lifeless> can you alt-tab?
<rickspencer3> lifeless, nope
<rickspencer3> lifeless, good thought though
<lifeless> alt-esc etc neither?
<rickspencer3> as I said in the bug, some users can't use a mouse
 * rickspencer3 tries alt-esc
<rickspencer3> lifeless, nope
<lifeless> worth a crack
<lifeless> would still be ugly if it had worked
<rickspencer3> lifeless, yes, but would not be so serious if there were such a workaround
<rickspencer3> so good thinking
<rickspencer3> it seems that the theme changes quite a bit recently, I wonder if that could have introduced a problem
<TheMuso> Try CTRL + ALT + Tab
<robert_ancell> grr, not my day.  Network problems and now text mode doesn't work after the last upgrade
<TheMuso> yay
<TheMuso> network connectivity sucks at the best of times
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, still there? Did you say something about bug 447049?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447049 in gdm "Login screen face browser should respond to keyboard as well as a mouse click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447049
<rickspencer3> hi robert_ancell
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: yes he did
<rickspencer3> my, quite the selection of robert_ancell's
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, yes
<rickspencer3> the problem is that in certain cases, the GDM greeter can't be navigated with the keyboard
<rickspencer3> which of course really bites if you can't use a keyboard
<TheMuso> I know I used to be able to press space bar and start typing my password. I can't do that any more.
<rickspencer3> so I bumped it to high, and assigned it to you, of course ;)
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, well, on my netbook, it's busted, but my desktop works fine
<TheMuso> interesting
<rickspencer3> in any case, according to one of the bug comments, sounds like the greater does not have focus
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, right, that appears to be the case for me
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, I don't want to speak for blind users, but I would assume that this would make the greeter work not to well if you were blind
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Very mcuh so.
<TheMuso> much
<rickspencer3> ok, so I'm thinking that accessibility-wise, we need to do something asap
<robert_ancell> It appears the very first time you start the greeter it occurs but it's ok from then on
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell ... not for me, it is recurrent on my netbook
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell .. is there a way to simply force focus on the greeter when it loads?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, can you check when you're logged in if the greeter is still running (using alt+ctrl+F keys)
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes, will see why it hasn't picked it
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I tried alt+ctrl+f and nothing happened, but perhaps I misunderstood your directions
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, in my case my session is running on alt+ctrl+F7 and the greeter is running in the background on alt+ctrl+F10 - I'm not sure how gdm decides when to keep it in the background.  If you can't find it chances are it is being restarted each time you switch user
<rickspencer3> oh, I see
<rickspencer3> switch to a VT you mean
<rickspencer3> ;)
<robert_ancell> yeah, the name escaped me for a minute :)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ok, on my netbook, if I switch to VT 9, the greeter is there, and has focus (or at least keyboard works)
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, so is the lack of focus only occuring on startup or each time you switch user?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, on startup, then when I go to switch users through the session indicator
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, now after doing the VT switch thing, it has focus again :/
 * rickspencer3 tries restarting
 * robert_ancell also restarting
<robert_ancell> hmm
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ok, I repro'd the weirdness and captured the steps in the bug
<robert_ancell> thanks
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, gotta run ... any other work I can add to your list before I go?
<rickspencer3> :)
<robert_ancell> no thanks :)
<robert_ancell> we've only got 2 days to get any changes in!
<rickspencer3> well, we *have* to fix this one
 * rickspencer3 suspects the new theme is somehow culpable
<TheMuso> That doesn't make sense though
<TheMuso> its just a GTK theme
<rickspencer3> right, but maybe some widget has focus and is invisible for something
<TheMuso> right
<lifeless> so
<rickspencer3> I just don't know what other changes occured
<lifeless> think abou the mechanics
<lifeless> gdm starts
<lifeless> it starts x
<lifeless> it starts xsplash
<robert_ancell> it's a pain because it's got a custom widget in it and a bunch of hidden stuff too
<lifeless> it signals xsplash to die
<lifeless> AIUI there isn't a WM running
<rickspencer3> hmm .. xsplash changed, and it's just a gdm app, maybe xsplash has keyboard focus
<robert_ancell> lifeless, metacity is running
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> so there is a wm
<robert_ancell> if everything is sane the focus should end up somewhere useful...
<rickspencer3> right, but the point still remains to consider ordering
<robert_ancell> sure
<lifeless> so the key components are xsplash, metacity & gdm-binary
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, apt-get remove xsplash and see if it occurs
 * rickspencer3 tries
<robert_ancell> gdm-simple-greeter not gdm-binary
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ?
<lifeless> robert_ancell: hey, I'm just doing ideas-man :P
<rickspencer3> ehe
<rickspencer3> lifeless, that job is taken
<rickspencer3> ;)
<robert_ancell> gdm-binary is the server component, gdm-simple-greeter is the gui, gdm-simple-slave is the server side component of the greeter
<robert_ancell> the new gdm is complex...
<lifeless> rickspencer3: robert_ancell was correcting my understanding of what bit of gdm shows the gui :)
<lifeless> robert_ancell: thanks btw ;)
<robert_ancell> lifeless, :)
<lifeless> I'm only peeked shallowly
<rickspencer3> boot up is much less pretty without xsplash
<rickspencer3> dang it!
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell ... works after removing xsplash
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell ... works after removing xsplash
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ok, there's our problem
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, if we can't get this fixed by Thur, is removing xsplash and acceptable work around in your opinion?
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: IMO yes.
<rickspencer3> I suppose for blind users, xsplash has minimal utility in any case
<rickspencer3> but people can't use mice for other reasons as well
 * rickspencer3 notes on bug and adjusts priority and assigns to xsplash
<lifeless> rickspencer3: I'm not sure its an xsplash problem
<lifeless> rickspencer3: consider that once xsplash quits there is nothing more it can do; getting focus to the right place is up to metacity
<rickspencer3> lifeless, xsplash doesn't quit ... it just get's invisible
<lifeless> rickspencer3: it quits
<rickspencer3> I don't think so, I think it fades out and waits for a signal from the gdm greater to fade in
<lifeless> rickspencer3: I was looking at it with Cody last week
<lifeless> rickspencer3: it quits
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> fair enough
<lifeless> /etc/gdm/PreSession/default starts it up again once the user is selected
<lifeless> [that path is from memory, may be slightly off]
<rickspencer3> but none the less, xsplash change, the problem occurred, I removed xsplash, it went away
<lifeless> rickspencer3: right, but that doesn't make xsplash the problem :)
<lifeless> that just makes xsplash the thing that makes the problem visible
<lifeless> robert_ancell: do you know metacity/wm guts well?
<robert_ancell> lifeless, no
<robert_ancell> xsplash does catch the focus out signal though which I'm investigating
<TheMuso> Sounds like a bug I experience occasionally where I close a window, and I totally lose focus on the desktop, and can't use orca or anything but the mouse to regain focus on a window etc. Sounds very much like metacity.,
<lifeless> TheMuso: exactly
<lifeless> TheMuso: Thats where my money is, a metacity issue that we've found a minimal test case for ;)
<TheMuso> lifeless: Right, and whats more, this bug I experience occasionally is random as well.
<lifeless> rickspencer3: if we need a package for this bug, all the data I have says its metacity; xsplash is dead simple and I didn't see anything odd related to window mgmt when I was looking over Cody's shoulder
<rickspencer3> lifeless, agreed
<rickspencer3> I'll leave it on GDM for now, as robert_ancell is working on it for the time being in any case
<robert_ancell> while it may be metacity with the core problem chances are it will be easier to make xsplash play nice
<TheMuso> foR THE SHORT TERM, THAT SOUNDS REASONABLE.
<TheMuso> gah capslock
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, yah
<rickspencer3> something change in xsplash that exposed this bug
<rickspencer3> it would seem
<lifeless> mmm
<rickspencer3> or, it's related to the new theme, those are the only things that changed, so far as I know
<lifeless> robert_ancell: what changes do you have in mind that would make xsplash not trigger this
<robert_ancell> lifeless, not sure but other windows close without focus being lost
<lifeless> robert_ancell: personally, I'd look at the root cause; its often simpler than it seems to fix things properly. IMNSHO. Yada Yada Yada.
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, given our time constraints, it's your call
 * rickspencer3 has to go
<rickspencer3> good night all
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, cya
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, thanks for picking this up and taking a crack at it, please comment wrt progress on the bug, and I'll see where we're at in the morning
<mac_v> dobey: Ubuntuone seems to be using the icon of the drive with a cloud ... rather than the greyscale icons that have been added to humanity...
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<inklers> hi
<inklers> to use vmware or vbox
<hyperair> vbox.
<pitti> kvm!
<mvo_> kvm++
<hyperair> no hardware support ftl =(
<hyperair> of all the core 2 duos around, i got the one that doesn't support vtx
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, seb128
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> you guys had a good night?
<didrocks> hey seb128, thanks for the sponsoring :)
<didrocks> hello chrisccoulson
<seb128> didrocks, thank you for the work ;-)
<chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
 * didrocks hugs seb128 
<pitti> seb128: bit short, but I slept well
<seb128> same here
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - can you figure out what problem this user is trying to describe on bug 448759?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448759 in gdm "gnome-session command in terminal causes nautilus error" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448759
<chrisccoulson> i don't know if it's just me who doesn't understand it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no, I don't understand it either
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm really confused with it now
<hggdh> there may be something lost in translation -- the reporter does not seem to understand, or refused to answer your quesiton
<hggdh> BTW, chrisccoulson, did you get in contact with the folks on b.g.o for your bug access?
<chrisccoulson> hggdh - possibly. perhaps you would like to comment on it? ;)
<chrisccoulson> hggdh - not yet, i haven't had time yet
<chrisccoulson> but thanks for replying to my message btw:)
<hggdh> heh. nothing like a foreigner to talk with another one...
<chrisccoulson> lol
<lucas> hi
<lucas> are there plans to update evince in jaunty, for example to fix the infamous "last slide skipped in presentation mode" bug?
<seb128> lucas, depends if somebody is interested to work on the sru
<seb128> I'm not but I'm happy to sponsor a debdiff if somebody does the paper work and the change
<lucas> seb128: evince 2.26.2 fixes the bug, so updating to that upstream release would be enough
<seb128> lucas, we don't upload new versions to stable usually
<lucas> ah, I thought you did for gnome. sorry.
<seb128> especially not new in a non lts version when the paperwork etc will bring us after karmic being stable
<seb128> if nobody complained in 6 months there is no strong case to sru now
<lucas> ok. I just saw someone running into that bug, that's why I asked.
<kwwii> seb128: lp:human-theme has the added icons for the gdm shutdown dialog and it works well (thanks to chrisccoulson for the names)
<seb128> kwwii, it was an error on your side yesterday then?
<kwwii> seb128: yeah, I think I was somewhat blind last night :p
<pitti> mat_t: you still get beeping on your system? if so, can you please check if https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio/+bug/449582/comments/6 helps?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449582 in pulseaudio "Hideous BEEP on new email" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> kwwii, uploaded to karmic
<seb128> pitti, thanks for the gnome-disk-utility snapshot
<pitti> seb128: yw
<pitti> seb128: I was going to ask you whether we wouldn't get it anyway with 2.28.2 next Monday
<seb128> pitti, I would have done it myself but I don't know if you want to stay on sync with debian there
<pitti> but you were offline, so I just did it
<seb128> pitti, I don't know davidz has not been good at rolling regular tarballs for it
<pitti> seb128: I don't want to put git snapshots into debian git, but of course I want to commit all packaging changes
<pitti> so I just want to avoid piling up permanent deltas
<mat_t> pitti: ok, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, ok makes sense
<pitti> asac: you wanted us to test 3G cards again; I just plugged in mine, and got some bouncing in dmesg (http://pastebin.com/f2a0c3d56), but it doesn't appear in nm-applet
<pitti> Oct 13 12:06:38 tick usb_id[12686]: unable to access '/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.7/usb1/1-8/1-8.2/1-8.2:1.1/ttyUSB1/tty/ttyUSB1'
<pitti> hmm
<pitti> did you see this before? want a bug report? what info should I include?
<pitti> hm, no /dev/ttyUSB0
<asac> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingModemmanager
<asac> the debug log would be great
<asac> unable to access feels odd
<pitti> asac: ah, thanks; I think it's got something to do with transitioning the fake CD-ROM to modem mode
<pitti> I'll have a  look at this wiki page
<pitti> asac: thanks, done
<kwwii> seb128: thanks!
<tseliot> pitti: would it be ok if I moved the trigger for the debconf interface to the several nvidia-$VER-modaliases packages from the kernel postinst.d? (bug #292606)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292606 in nvidia-common "dkms - error when installing custom kernel" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292606
<pitti> tseliot: why modaliases? shouldn't such a thing be in nvidia-common?
<tseliot> pitti: it is there already but it's possible that the debconf interface is called before the drivers (and the modaliases) are updated
<pitti> tseliot: where are the debconf interfaces now?
<tseliot> pitti: it's all in nvidia-common however we install the trigger to /etc/kernel/header_postinst.d/ and /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ too
<tseliot> (see setup.py in nvidia-common)
<pitti> and why does it break?
<tseliot> pitti: because DKMS doesn't clean stdout and the debconf interface gets part of the DKMS output as a reply instead of getting only the output of the nvidia-detector app
<pitti> tseliot: dkms is called in *.config?
<pitti> anyway, isn't the proper way to fix that to call db_stop after being done wiht debconf and callnig stuff?
<tseliot> pitti: no, dkms is called in the kernel postinst.d (just like nvidia-common)
<pitti> tseliot: so, I don't understand the problem yet, but moving debconf to -modaliases sounds wrong (since they are installed by default)
<pitti> and triggers installed by default shoulnd't care which package they come from (-common or modalises)?
<tseliot> pitti: and so is nvidia-common
<tseliot> not that I'm keen on adopting this solution
<tseliot> I just want to fix this bug once and for all
<pitti> tseliot: the only proper way to fix this debconf breakage that I know is to call db_stop after you're done with debconf, and not call programs which mess with stdout in between
<tseliot> pitti: here's the debconf script: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/292280/
<tseliot> currently it has to call nvidia-detector in order to get the recommended driver (or "none" if no obsolete driver is installed)
<tseliot> dkms is called before nvidia-common in the kernel postinst.d. NOTE: it's not nvidia-common that calls it
<pitti> tseliot: that looks fine, though, since it redirects nvidia-detector's stdout
<tseliot> right but it looks like dkms "pollutes" the $LATEST variable with its own stdout
<tseliot> see superm1 reply to the bug report
<pitti> tseliot: I read it, but admittedly it would take me a long while to really understand this bug
<pitti> tseliot: if superm1 and you agree that moving it to the modalias files is the way to go, then go ahead, but it feels utterly wrong to me: conceptually (since it's got nothing to do with modalises), structurally (since it'd replicate one script four times), and behaviourally (relying on any unpack order instead of fixing the true root cause)
<pitti> if you want dkms to run for a new driver version, it should be done in that very driver, not any other package
<tseliot> pitti: ok, thanks for your help. I'll further discuss this with superm1 then.
<pitti> e. g. nvidia-180-kernel-source
<pitti> tseliot: well, I'm afraid I wasn't really helpful here :-( (sorry, have my head full with other stuff)
<tseliot> pitti: no problem, we're all quite busy at this point in the development cycle
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - do you know the purpose of 100_load_desired_settings.patch in gnome-desktop?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, to load the desired settings? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh. i couldn't figure out what determines the desired settings, and what benefit it gives over the upstream design
<chrisccoulson> i was unsure of the difference between the intended settings and desired settings
<seb128>   * debian/patches/100_load_desired_settings.patch:
<seb128>     - enable gnome-settings-daemon to load the desired settings
<seb128>       saved by the xrandr capplet when the virtual resolution has
<seb128>       to be saved and the settings cannot be applied immediately.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I think it has to do with configs where you need to add virtual to xorg.conf
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok. that makes more sense then
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the config is only applied after an xorg restart in such cases
<seb128> since virtual is not dynamic
<seb128> chrisccoulson, tseliot wrote that so he might know better
<chrisccoulson> i understand now
<chrisccoulson> thanks:)
<seb128> you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> i think that's enough. i just wanted to understand why it was there
<tseliot> what seb128 wrote is correct
 * tseliot > lunch
<chrisccoulson> tseliot - thanks
<chrisccoulson> i might make a small change later so that gnome_rr_config_apply_with_time() always sets the GError when the call fails
<chrisccoulson> it doesn't do that currently, which causes some g_criticals in gnome-settings-daemon
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
 * mvo__ is away for some minutes
<seb128> istaz, hi, bug #411805 has quite some duplicates do you know if there is an easy fix we could backport?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 411805 in telepathy-butterfly "telepathy-butterfly crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in <lambda>()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/411805
<istaz> seb128: sorry apparently it's not fixed yet if you are still getting report of it with papyon 0.4.2, I will take a look at it latter, a way to reproduce it would be great
<seb128> istaz, ok thanks
<istaz> I guess it caused by contact having non-ascii char in their adress
<seb128> istaz, do you look at bugs on launchpad btw? there is quite some assertions and crashers there but nobody seems to comment, would you prefer if we forward those?N
<istaz> I look at them when I have time but I have been quite busy with my new job
<seb128> ok
<seb128> is somebody else looking at those upstream, ie is that worth forwarding those or will it lead at you being too busy and not looking at them anyway?
<istaz> seb128: voip related bugs may be nice to forward since it's mostly Tester fixing them and I don't think he look at launchpad. Others butterfly/papyon contributors seems to be too busy for now  :/
<seb128> ok, thanks
<istaz> so I don't think it worth the efford forwarding other bugs for now
<istaz> seb128: I made a papyon bug fixes release last week, do you think it's still in time to package it for karmic?
<seb128> istaz, let me have a look to the diff with what we have now but if it's bug fix only it should be ok
<istaz> ok
<istaz> it mostly contain patch you would have to backport anyway
<seb128> istaz, looks fine, looking at the change there is only https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24236 which we don't have now
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 24236 in papyon "crashed with NameError in __group_contact_delete_errback()" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> and the av fixes but since we don't have that on in karmic...
<istaz> seb128: well if you have the fix for the bug in _MSG it's ok then, it's probably the most important one
<istaz> seb128: also you could put the bugs directly in public, only the full log should contain private data
<seb128> istaz, ok, good to know, I was not sure if exception could have login informations
<istaz> thought it would be easier if we had the full logs (with the sensitive information removed of course)  to debug
<seb128> would be nice if the log would not have sensitive informations to start
<seb128> if somebody want to have a look at making remplace account names and password by dummy ones
<seb128> those should not be really useful for debugging
<istaz> yes we should do that
<istaz> except this particular bug seems to be caused by someone account name ;)
<seb128> istaz, well in such cases we can still ask for details ;-)
<joaopinto> papyon bug fixed on today's updates, finally I can test it :P
<istaz> joaopinto: tell me if you encounter the other bug
<joaopinto> hum, i have know idea what's that TargetID about
<kklimonda> hmm, does update-manager handle PPAs and other 3rd party repositories in any way during upgrade?
<joaopinto> kklimonda, don't think so
<tgpraveen> kklimonda: it
<tgpraveen> does check from PPA also and PPA is treated
<tgpraveen> just as any other software source. and wherever it finds latest version of the package in PPA or other repo
<joaopinto> is changes jaunty to karmic on ppas sources ?
<tgpraveen> it will uuse it
<joaopinto> it
<joaopinto> tgpraveen, what you are describing is apt specific, not related to update-manager :)
<tgpraveen> joaopinto: and um update manager does it differently?
<tgpraveen> I thought it also did the same thing
<joaopinto> tgpraveen, update does it differently for the ubuntu official sources
<joaopinto> not it only changes the sources itself, as it also covers some specific upgrade scenarios for some packages/components
<joaopinto> I guess kklimonda was asking if update-manager doe something "special" about PPAs :P
<tseliot> seb128: is it too late to introduce the patch in comment 24? bug #386017
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 386017 in hundredpapercuts "Brushing right-edge of trackpad causes clipboard to paste text" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/386017
<tseliot> seb128: it's for the gnome-settings-daemon and it would add some strings
<seb128> tseliot, sorry I was tracking a python bug
<seb128> looking
<tseliot> ok, thanks
<seb128> tseliot, yes it's too late for karmic for such changes
<seb128> it adds new feature and new strings
<seb128> no way we can get those tested and translated now
<tseliot> seb128: ok, just as I suspected
<tseliot> seb128: there's another things that concerns me. The gnome-settings-daemon disables tap-to-click also on touchpads which don't have physical buttons
<tseliot> which means that users might be left without a way to perform clicks
<chrisccoulson> hmmm
<chrisccoulson> i just caught the tail end of that, but i don't think thats the intended behaviour is it?
<chrisccoulson> hello btw:)
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<tseliot> I think I can fix that in the g-s-d
<tseliot> hi
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<seb128> tseliot, talk to rick when he's around about what to do about tap-on-click in karmic
<tseliot> seb128: I'm referring only to that specific case. I'm not suggesting that we enable tap-to-click for everyone. But yes, I'll talk to him later
<seb128> tseliot, well if you can fix this case great but there is still the default question to discuss
<seb128> could be a topic for meeting today
<seb128> I think people suggested to enable it by default with the desactive click while typing too
<tseliot> seb128: ah, ok, we can discuss that too
<tseliot> seb128: where is the default value for tap-to-click stored? In what file?
<seb128> tseliot, gconf key
<tseliot> it doesn't seem to be in g-s-d.gconf-defaults
<seb128> tseliot, /desktop/gnome/peripherals/touchpad/tap_to_click
<mac_v> hmm... for some reason ubuntu one has marked all the files&folders in my system as synced :/
<tseliot> seb128: I mean, in the source package
<tseliot> aah, maybe in data/
<chrisccoulson> in one of the schema files in the data directory most likely
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<tseliot> ok
<seb128> tseliot, desktop_gnome_peripherals_touchpad.schema
<seb128> desktop_gnome_peripherals_touchpad.schemas in g-s-d
<tseliot> ok, thanks
<|_i|\]|_|X> Hi
<tgpraveen> is there a meeting of desktop team today?
<tgpraveen> in how much time?
<seb128> yes, in 3 hours
<tgpraveen> k. thanks
<mvo__> hey - is there a dbus signal from gnome-power-manager for returning from hibernate/suspend ?
<pitti> mvo__: at least the gpm debug log says "emit resume"
<tseliot> mvo__: what are you trying to do?
<chrisccoulson> mvo__ - not that i'm aware of
<tseliot> you can listen to the BrightnessChanged signal but that's not necessarily a sign of returning from hibernate/suspend
<tseliot> mvo__: ^
<mvo__> tseliot, hm, thanks. I want to fix #450286
<tseliot> bug #450286
<mvo__> so basicly update the "last checked" time in u-m
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450286 in update-manager "[wishlist] update "last updated" text after resume from hibernate/suspend" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450286
<pitti> seb128: do you have any idea how my G1 mobile gets x_content_types: x-content/image-dcf in gvfs?
<pitti> seb128: grep -r image-dcf doesn't give anythign in dk-disks, gdu, or gvfs
<pitti> (except in the gphoto2 backend in gvfs, which isn't relevant here)
<chrisccoulson> mvo__ - there's currently discussions starting about having suspend/resume events from devkit-power-gobject, for triggering things like locking the screen on suspend etc
<chrisccoulson> but that doesn't exist yet
<seb128> pitti, what directories are there?
<pitti> seb128: it has a DCIM/
<mvo__> chrisccoulson, thanks, I see if I can just do it differently then!
<pitti> seb128: I just fixed one half of bug 440290, but the mime type is still missing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440290 in devicekit-disks "iPod only being detected as Drive, not as iPod" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440290
<seb128> pitti, that's probably it
<pitti> seb128: grepping for DCIM in those three doesn't match anything either :-(
<chrisccoulson> mvo__ - sorry i can't be of much more use ;)
<seb128> pitti, freedesktop.org.xml:      <treematch type="directory" path="dcim" non-empty="true"/>
<seb128> shared-mime-info: /usr/share/mime/packages/freedesktop.org.xml
<tseliot> mvo__: I'm don't know whether this is the right thing to do but maybe listen to the SessionRunning signal in SessionManager?
<seb128>   <mime-type type="x-content/image-dcf">
<pitti> seb128: aah, in shared-mime-info
<seb128> pitti, yes
<pitti> seb128: hm, I don't think we can apply that so easily for music players
<pitti> seb128: we need to check an udev property, and neither gvfs nor gdu use udev directly any more
<pitti> so we'd need a new property in dk-disks
<pitti> and pass it through gdu to gvfs
<pitti> seb128: we could do a nasty hack for karmic and set the mime type in gvfs based on the icon
<pitti> (it's indeed quite a visible bug..)
<seb128> pitti, maybe wait for davidz to see what he thinks?
<pitti> sure, I will, just pondering options
<pitti> seb128: until now I didn't even know how it worked for cameras
<seb128> pitti, is the issue ipod specific?
<pitti> seb128: no, happens to any music player (including my mobile)
<pitti> I get a correct icon now
<pitti> but no mimetype (well, just photos)
<seb128> your mobile is a tricky case
 * pitti opens upstream bug for now to discuss
<seb128> it's a camera and a player at the same time
<pitti> seb128: well, same problem with an ipod
<pitti> seb128: it doesn't get any mime type for now
<pitti> seb128: the "what to do?" dialog should just offer both, as in jaunty
<chrisccoulson> tseliot - the sessionrunning signal is only emitted at the start of the session after all startup applications have loaded
<seb128> pitti, right
<tseliot> chrisccoulson: too bad. Thanks for the info
<mvo__> hm, after a jaunty->karmic upgrade I just got a error that "fast-user-switching" applet can not be loaded anymore (it got removed). but "user switcher" got not added. is that a known issue?
<mvo__> will it be there on all systems? or just my one because I'm unlucky?
<seb128> mvo__, if you click on reload does it work?
<seb128> mvo__, the applet id is the same that should work in a transparent way
<mvo__> seb128, hm, I have not tried reload, this was after first boot
<mvo__> ok, OAFIID:GNOME_FastUserSwitchApplet - and I have [don't delete] [delete]
<mvo__> hm, the one I have is "FastUserSwitchAppletGdm" (notice the appended Gdm)
<seb128> mvo__, indicator-session has some magic to use the old namespace
<seb128> speaking about what we should probably stop shipping the upstream version
<mvo__> well, it looks like in this case the magic is not quite working
<seb128> it seems to confuse users
<seb128> tedg, ^
<dobey> mac_v: hey
<mvo__> hm, not installed
<seb128> hey dobey
<seb128> dobey, since your updates all nautilus icons have a green check icon now
<tedg> mvo__: Do you have indicator-applet installed?
<seb128> dobey, or emblem rather
<tseliot> seb128: how about something like this? (just a 5 lines change)
<tseliot> http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/karmic/distro/gnome-settings-daemon_2.28.0-0ubuntu4.debdiff
<mvo__> tedg, no, it was not installed during the upgrade, I check now why
<dobey> seb128: i saw the bug, will have a fix shortly. i guess my hopes about that being the karmic release are shot :)
<tedg> mvo__: Hmm, that is odd.  It should have been already installed.
<mvo__> tedg, best/safest is when a transitional package is used
<mvo__> tedg, oh? on jaunty?
<seb128> tseliot, looks fine to me, could you send it upstream too?
<tedg> seb128: I don't think we can remove the upstream one as isn't it needed for Vanilla GNOME?
<mvo__> tedg, this is a system upgraded all the way back from warty I think (well, note quite, but it had a lot of upgrades)
<tedg> mvo__: Yeah, it's another binary in the indicator-applet package.  It should have been in Jaunty.
<seb128> tedg, I'm not sure we have a working vanilla GNOME mode this cycle
<tseliot> seb128: sure. Who shall I talk to? vuntz?
<tedg> seb128: Oh, okay.  Then remove it :)
<seb128> tseliot, bugzilla.gnome.org, just open a g-s-d bug
<mac_v> dobey: hey... is it intended for ubuntuone to use the harddisk+cloud icon in the panel? and with the red x error when disconnected?
<tseliot> seb128: ok
<mvo__> tedg, hm, I wonder if that means that this system was (happily) using fast-user-switch applet in jaunty and now suddenly nothing. still, a transitional package sounds like a good idea, especially when we have to deal with hardy->lucid upgrades at some point
<seb128> mvo__, would a gnome-panel recommends be enough?
<tedg> mvo__: Uhm, okay.  I'm not sure how that all works :)  I'll provide answers to questions :)
<mvo__> seb128, yeah, probably. a new one should be fine
<dobey> mac_v: looks like i need to fix something in the applet so that we can use ubuntuone-client-idle properly as an idle icon, and humanity needs to provide -idle and -offline icons
<mvo__> tedg, thanks :) seb128 idea is good as well, I think that should work fine
<mvo__> seb128, do you want a bug about it?
<mac_v> dobey: if you have the hicolor icons for -idle and -offline... i could come up with something similar for humanity :)
<dobey> mac_v: we don't have an -idle icon currently (we'll just be using the app icon)
<dobey> mac_v: i don't know what humanity should do for idle. for offline it should probably use the -error icon and replace the ! with an x
<seb128> mvo__, there is already a recommends...
<mac_v> dobey: hmm.... ok. any reason for not using the ubuntu logo?
<mvo__> seb128, hm, then the problem is most likely that its not a new one (that its unchanged between jaunty and karmic) so apt does not pick it up
<seb128> mvo__, what is not a new one?
<seb128> mvo__, indicator-applet you mean? how come it was not installed in jaunty for you?
<dobey> mac_v: we've been getting a lot of reports about things in ubuntu that aren't ubuntu one, so i think it was causing some confusion.
<mvo__> seb128, no idea, maybe a bug in the intrepid->jaunty upgrade :/
<mvo__> seb128, or I was upgrading too early
<mvo__> or something
<seb128> mvo__, or you found it useless and remove it?
<seb128> removed
<mvo__> haha
<mvo__> possible ;)
 * mvo__ does not think so
<seb128> in any case I don't think it's really a bug
<mvo__> I agree
<mvo__> if its a recommends of u-d and g-p then it should be fine
<seb128> good
<mvo__> next on my list is kvm
 * mvo__ goes to #ubuntu-devel
<mac_v> dobey: i dont think its easy to make a hardisk greyscale icon ;p ... easier to go with the logo... also if you file a bug for the new -idle and -offline states kindly add Humanity to the also affects ...
<dobey> mac_v: don't make it a hard disk. the other ubuntuone-foo icons in humanity don't use the hard disk.
<dobey> mac_v: and the hard disk is greyscale already. it's just not monotone or low-definition :)
<mac_v> yeah ... ;) i meant in monotone
<mac_v> dobey: hmm.... i think daniel already did the icons for -idle and -offline... it was just a cloud... do you have it or ... ?
<istaz> probably the wrong chan but does anybody know it this bug has a chance to be resolved before karmic roll out ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+source/lftp/+bug/428104
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 428104 in lftp "3.7.15 removes support for https" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dobey> mac_v: nope, no idle/offline humanity icons here
<mac_v> actually Daniel had done them already , maybe djsiegel has them...
<mac_v> or i could ping Dan himself ;p
<tgpraveen> istaz: so finally karmic is not going to have msn a/v chat?
<dobey> mac_v: the tarball of icons for u1 i have from dan doesn't have them
<mvo__> heh .) there is a package called "teg" - there should be one called tedg as well
<dobey> mac_v: so i doubt djsiegel has them either :)
<seb128> tgpraveen, no, feature freeze was weeks ago
<tseliot> seb128: done: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598287
<ubottu> Gnome bug 598287 in plugins "Tap-to-click should be enabled if the touchpad has no physical buttons" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<istaz> tgpraveen: well it's not up to me to decide but apparently the ubuntu responsable determined that it was not enough tested
<seb128> tseliot, thanks
<tseliot> np
<tedg> mvo__: Heh, ironically I did PPC packaging for TEG back in the day.  Fun game.
<istaz> tgpraveen: if you want to use it you can still use the ppa
<mac_v> dobey: lol... so Daniel then... he showed it to me long back , when making the rest rest of the icons :)
<mvo__> lol
<didrocks> meld was giving me a hard time... finally patched :)
<cyphermox> hi, could someone please look at the merge proposals linked to bug #404616 and bug #291853 ? thanks
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404616 in libgweather "Weather forecasts are incomplete/invalid for Montreal, Quebec, Canada" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404616
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 291853 in libgweather "Weather service does not add entry if city is selected but "Timezone" field is "Unknown"" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291853
<seb128> cyphermox, could you subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to the bug?
<cyphermox> seb128, of course, sorry. I had asked on -devel a couple of days ago about whether the merge proposals were enough or not, but I hadn't had an answer
<seb128> cyphermox, we usually use http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/index.html to track sposnoring
<seb128> cyphermox, which lists bugs where the team is sponsored
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> seb128, thanks, I'll know for next time :)
<seb128> cyphermox, you're welcome
<seb128> the workflow will probably change when everything is in bzr which is not now
<cyphermox> seb128, should I create debdiffs for these ones if they're in bzr, or is the merge proposal enough?
<dobey> mac_v: i think there was a bug about 'colored icons' for u1, but i can't seem to find it right this second...
<seb128> cyphermox, the merge is just fine but we don't list those if the team is not subscribed right now
<seb128> pitti, cf your list comment, it's a live system if you picked that option not the install one
<seb128> pitti, if you use the install one you get only ubiquity on screen
<seb128> pitti, so no way to play with options etc
<pitti> but then you don't have g-p-m and g-s-d running either?
<seb128> I'm not sure about that now
<seb128> I never looked at what processes were running there
<tgpraveen> ootb can I have a video chat with someone on google talk using empathy, if other side is on windows? or will it require some additional codecs?
<seb128> re
<mat_t> pitti: looks like this might have worked  (the beep fix) :)
<pitti> yay
<mat_t> pitti: I'll be sure in about 20 mins :)
<pitti> mat_t: ah, discharging your battery? :-)
<davmor2> Out of curiosity why do we suddenly have green ticks everywhere?
<mat_t> pitti: yeah ;)
<pitti> mat_t: screen brightness to max, playing three videos, and building a kernel should do :)
<mat_t> haha
<pitti> mat_t: btw, if you filed that usplash bug, please assign it to me (otherwise it'll get lost in my "new ubuntu bugs" folder, which is a mess right now)
<mat_t> pitti: yeah, doing it right now :)
<mat_t> thanks!
<seb128> cassidy, who is working on geoclue nowadays?
<seb128> cassidy, do you know if people are paid to work on it?
<mac_v> davmor2: Bug 450112
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450112 in ubuntuone-client "Entire Hard Drive Marked as ubuntuone-synchronized" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450112
<cassidy> seb128, don't think so. I think pierlux plans to give it some love
<davmor2> mac_v: thanks :)
<mac_v> np :)
<seb128> cassidy, ok thanks
<seb128> mvo, it seems the "..." utf-8 char in software store still breaks translations
<fredp> seb128: hi! what would be the procedure to request the removal of the jhbuild package? (it's a very old snapshot, and people testing gnome-shell shouldn't be tempted to use it)
<mvo> seb128: *urgh* I though I removed that?
<seb128> mvo, Search and Software Store are not translated
<seb128> fredp, why would they be tempted to use it when they can apt-get install gnome-shell?
<seb128> fredp, open a bug and subscribe ubuntu-archive
<seb128> mvo, ?
<kklimonda> seb128: probably to build it directly from git
<mvo> ccheney: I'm doing a test upgrade with loads of openoffice irght now and I get constantly "openoffice.org is running irght now" (its not)
<mvo> seb128: I have a look
<mvo> ccheney: then it errors out (dpkg errors)
<mvo> ccheney: or maybe it is and I don't know anything about this. but this error seems to be a bit much
<fredp> seb128: thanks
<ccheney> mvo: hmm very weird, i'll have to do a test and see if i can reproduce it
<seb128> mvo, hum, found it
<seb128> mvo, https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/software-center/+imports
<fredp> (I don't know why they would be tempted, I just know they are :/ )
<mat_t> pitti: the beep is still there, I celebrated too early :(
<seb128> "  	 po/po/software-store.pot in software-center in Ubuntu Karmic   	Blocked"
<seb128> mvo, ^
<mvo> ccheney: I will report the bug when its finsihed, so you get fully logs
<ccheney> mvo: if it is running it probably won't work but on a regular upgrade case it shouldn't be seeing that afaik :-\ will look into it
<ccheney> mvo: ok thanks
<seb128> mvo, oh no, "  	 po/software-center.pot in software-center in Ubuntu Karmic   	Approved"
<Keybuk> seb128: empathy isn't scrolling for me :-(
<davmor2> pitti: just had devkit-disks-deamon shutdown on me during install
<ccheney> mvo: please target it and assign to me so it doesn't get lost in the huge amount of ooo bugs, heh :)
<mvo> ccheney: its not running, I have not started it. it might be in "quick start mode" or something, but I did just install a bunch of OOo package in this VM
<mvo> ccheney: will do, thanks
<seb128> Keybuk, talk to Zdra or cassidy ;-)
 * mvo mubles something about *if* it ever finishes
<seb128> mvo, the http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33549345/software-center.pot has
<seb128> "#: ../data/ui/SoftwareCenter.ui.h:5
<seb128> msgid "Search&#x2026;"
<seb128> msgstr ""
<seb128> "
<Zdra> Keybuk, what's the problem?
<seb128> mvo, that's what software-center.pot has in your source
<Keybuk> Zdra: it doesn't scroll to the bottom of the window when I get new messages
<mvo> seb128: thanks, I fix that now
<Zdra> it does here
<cassidy> Keybuk, which theme are you using?
<Keybuk> cassidy: "theme" ?
<seb128> mvo, thank you
<cassidy> Keybuk, the chat theme
<Keybuk> Classic apparently
<mvo> seb128: thanks for finding it so quickly
<cassidy> should be fine then
<seb128> mvo, you're welcome ;-)
 * seb128 hugs mvo
<Keybuk> Zdra: I appreciate that ;)  I figure it must be a bug that I'm tripping somehow
<cassidy> Keybuk, anything interesting in Empathy's debug ?
<Keybuk> how can I help you debug?
<Keybuk> cassidy: where's empathy's debug?
<Zdra> Keybuk, you are using adium theme?
<cassidy> help menu - debug
<cassidy> Zdra, no, it's "Classic" an old one
<Keybuk> cassidy: there are chat_window_update_chat_tab and chat_window_update messages
<cassidy> nothing looking like an error ?
<cassidy> Keybuk, it doesn't scroll when you send new messages and when you receive new ones?
<Zdra> Keybuk, it scroll to bottom only if you were already at bottom
<Zdra> Keybuk, like gnome-terminal
<Zdra> Keybuk, otherwise I just tested Classic theme and it scroll perfectly
<seb128> mvo, the .ui has the same issue btw, it's not just the template
<seb128> software-center-0.5.1/data/ui/SoftwareCenter.ui:                        <property name="label" translatable="yes">Search&#x2026;</property>
<mvo> seb128: yeah, I'm fixing it there now and replace it with "..."
<mvo> three normal dots
<mvo> better ugly than untranslatable
<seb128> you didn't manage to workaround that the other time?
<Keybuk> cassidy: nothing looking like an error
<Keybuk> Zdra: that's the weird thing, it scrolls sometimes
 * bryce waves
<Keybuk> now it is
<seb128> mvo, can you please drop an email to ubuntu-translators too about the change?
<seb128> mvo, thanks
<seb128> bryce, hey
<mvo> seb128: I look into it after dinner, maybe the woraround is a better idea
<seb128> mvo, enjoy diner, meeting is about to start there ;-)
<seb128> if rickspencer3 and pitti are back from their call
<pitti> o/
<seb128> hey pitti ;-)
 * pitti hits the bell
<pitti> Desktop team meeting
<kenvandine> hey
<ccheney> hello
<ArneGoetje> hi
<pitti> Rick will be here in a few minutes
<awe> howdy
 * asac lands ... just in time for meeting
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-10-13
 * pedro_ waves
<pitti> so, we want to keep that really quick
<seb128> ups, I knew I forgot something
<pitti> = Last Karmic Gnome Release =
 * seb128 notes to adds activity report 
<pitti> seb128: this will happen next Monday, you said?
<seb128> tarballs are due monday yes
<seb128> so monday to thursday
<seb128> traditionally some are late for robert_ancell to have something to do while we sleep there ;-)
<pitti> ok, so everyone keep that in mind, and not assing major things to Seb/Robert on Mon/Tue :)
<seb128> help on sponsoring will be welcome
<pitti> I can help out with some bits, like g-p-m/gdm/gdu/other stuff you throw at me
<seb128> ok, will do
<seb128> we usually are fine for updates
<seb128> but sponsoring can use extra hands
<pitti> right, I think asac and me can help out wit sponsoring as well
<asac> ack
<pitti> = Release Bugs/Release Status =
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus is our report from last Friday
<pitti> good job, folks, on killing RC bugs
<pitti> we just got more than we fixed in the past three weeks :)
<pitti> primarily because you all are eager to get important stuff on the radar, which is good
<asac> hmm
<pitti> does anyone have bugs assigned which you feel you can't fix by RC, so until next Monday?
<asac> the current wiki list looked not so big
<asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-10-13 ... there are "only" 5
<asac> is that up-to-date?
<pitti> apparently it's missing the X/KDE bits
<ccheney> i have a couple fixes that need to go in for OOo but aren't on there but i already am on top of them
<asac> for me bug 435073 is stil not understood. not sure how many affected
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435073 in network-manager "NetworkManager 0.8 can not get IPv4 address for wired Auto connections because IPv6 fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435073
<pitti> but ReleaseStatus is from last Friday, since then one or two things got fixed
<rickspencer3> pitti, those were the "Highs" that are tracked in karmic
<rickspencer3> and assigned to the desktop team or someone on teh team
<pitti> ah, and e. g. bug 427734  was invalidated recently
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427734 in ubufox "ubufox not loaded in Firefox 3.5 on karmic alpha 6 CD" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427734
<asac> i did that after getting three confirms that this works now
<asac> i filed that as a "somehow livecd was broken"
<pitti> for example, bug 432521  affects our team, and isn't on Rick's list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432521 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "kdm does not restart X server (that crashed on logout)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432521
<asac> hmm
<pitti> asac: do you need someone to help testing bug 435073 then?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435073 in network-manager "NetworkManager 0.8 can not get IPv4 address for wired Auto connections because IPv6 fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435073
<pitti> kenvandine: how's the empathy A/V coming along? there are some nasty crashers still?
<asac> well. i need someone who is currently seeing that bug
<kenvandine> pitti, not to bad
<pitti> kenvandine: did the indicator integration crashes get fixed? (obsolete/duplicated entries, etc.?)
<kenvandine> some people are still getting crashes
<kenvandine> the indicator related crashers are fixed and uploaded
<kenvandine> the dupes too
<kenvandine> and buddy signon behavior
<kenvandine> A/V is working pretty well, but still causes some crashes
<pitti> awe: any chance to try and reproduce the IPv6 bug?
<awe> pitti: sure
<pitti> if it doesn't happen on a standard setup, we can probably take it off the radar?
<awe> agreed
<awe> it seems to work fine for me, but i'll do some digging
<pitti> sounds like it should be enough to set up a failing dhcp server on ipv6, that should work with kvm even
<asac> pitti: awe: i think its only reproduciable if you start with 0.7 profile
<asac> something like a system-connection with some specific ipv4 setting ... or something else
<pitti> asac: profile == saved connections?
<pitti> ok
<awe> hmm, ok... i have a spare machine i can upgrade
<asac> seb128 was the first who noticed this during upgrade a few month bug
<asac> back
<pitti> seb128: oh, you can reproduce it?
<asac> pitti: profile == settings
<asac> pitti: no. because once you fix it its gone
<seb128> pitti, I ran once into it
<seb128> I didn't try again since
<asac> so the problem is that if you come from a NM without IPv6 support
<asac> and upgrade to NM 0.8
<asac> you might end up with the IPv6 setting set to manual
<asac> and then you cannot connect because getting IP for ip6 fails
<pitti> it seems that's at least enough data to reproduce the bug?
<asac> however, the ipv6 defaults to ignored
<asac> so this does not happen for everyone
<asac> and we looked around the code upstream and dont see how that can happen
<asac> pitti: yes. but it seems to manifest itself just with a certain configuration/history
<pitti> kenvandine: how bad is bug 434878 still? should we keep it on the radar?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434878 in empathy "video calls fail frequently" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434878
<kenvandine> not bad
<asac> so finding the NM 0.7 state that will reproduce this after upgrade is needed
<kenvandine> pitti, i think we need to just track it well for lucid and file effect bugs upstream
 * asac takes a note to review the setting migration code once more
<asac> i think best plan would be for me/awe/QA to try a few upgrades from 0.7 to 0.8 and hope that we hit the problem
<pitti> ok
<pitti> bryce: anything on your list which might not make it?
<seb128> I had a ipv4 dchp system config I think
<seb128> if that helps to try upgrades
<bryce> pitti, nope, things are going well
<pitti> nice
<seb128> I never played with fancy options out of that I think
<Amaranth> mvo: looks like we're going to have a compiz 0.8.4 release in about 5 hours
<asac> seb128: thx. dhcp system config -> available to all users + all automatic IP config ?
<pitti> bryce: there's one remaining mesa regression, right?
 * Amaranth wonders if he can upload compiz stuff yet
<seb128> asac, yes
<asac> seb128: if thats it it should be easy ;)
<awe> asac: i take it i should abandon work on the knetwork-manager kubuntu bug?
<asac> awe: hidden?
<bryce> pitti, right I'm continuing to keep an eye out for mesa (or other) major regressions
<asac> yes
<awe> ok
<asac> thats not a regression
<Riddell> awe: what bug is that?
<asac> awe: maybe write up quickly your current understanding
<bryce> pitti, also going to look at updates for -ati, that's the only remaining big area that we're behind on
<asac> so i can poke upstream about it
<awe> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/444262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444262 in network-manager "knetworkmanager won't connect to hidden WiFi AP using WEP" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<pitti> = What issues are we working on that are not on the list =
<pitti> do you have anything which still needs to make it into karmic which isn't covered by bugs?
<pitti> from my side, we still need to update teh copyright files in the artwork packages again, but that's techinically unintrusive (just legally)
<ccheney> i have a OOo ppc ftbfs and kde4 mega issue that still needs another upload, along with the mvo upgrade issue i need to track down
<asac> seb128: i have update of ephy homepage on my list. can we put that gconf setting in some other package?
<asac> seb128: so we can keep ephy in synch in future
<seb128> asac, any you want
<pitti> ccheney: is it possible to get that done by Friday, so that it can build over the weekend? I'm concerned about the arm buildd time
<ccheney> pitti: definitely should be done by friday
<pitti> cool
<ccheney> pitti: i might wait until thur to upload to make sure no more updates appear right after my upload, heh :)
<dobey> mac_v: ping
<pitti> asac, seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt is still unhappy about epy, BTW
<asac> seb128: not sure you answered my question ;) ... but lets do that after meeting (sorry all)
 * asac checks
<asac> hmm
<asac> seahorse-plugins
<pitti> ccheney: there might be some patches to fix bug 424132, too?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 424132 in openoffice.org "[kubuntu] OOo KDE file dialog is utterly broken." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/424132
<asac> pitti: will check that
<pitti> oh, and we need to get in a new checkbox to complete the policykit migration; cr3 has an updated package, currently being reviewed
<ccheney> pitti: yea that was the kde4 mega issue i was referring to, right after my last upload another few patches appeared, heh
<ccheney> pitti: so should be fixed with my next upload (i hope anyway)
<pitti> sweet
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'm done, mike back to you?
<rickspencer3> pitti, thanks
<rickspencer3> I'll need to scroll back, unfortunately
<rickspencer3> but it looks like perhaps there are some bugs that are not on my radar
<rickspencer3> so I'll look at those
<rickspencer3> in general, how do folks feel about the release?
<seb128> karmic rocks!
<rickspencer3> :)
<asac> yeah ;)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, what seb128 said :)
<rickspencer3> ok, I agree with seb128
 * chrisccoulson thinks the same
<Riddell> a big improvement over jaunty here
<awe> +1
<pedro_> yeah it's going to rock
<rickspencer3> Jaunty was the best desktop I ever had, until a few weeks ago, and Karmic is by far
<rickspencer3> some really amazing and creative work went into it
 * ccheney will finally be upgraded to karmic ~ friday when his ram replacement comes in
<rickspencer3> so, let's finish strong!
<jcastro> It really is getting great
<pitti> it has a lot of rough edges, but great technology, I like it a lot
<ccheney> looks very nice when i was running it before the ram died
<pitti> and we'll pour polish over it in lucid
<rickspencer3> okay, I would say that's the meeting unless there is other business?
<asac> nope
<asac> thx for making it quick
<seb128> oh one thing
<asac> ?
<seb128> not sure if that's a meeting topic
<seb128> but do we want to keep the upstream user switcher applet in gdm too?
<asac> which one is that?
<seb128> having 2 seems to confuse some user especially that the ubuntu one is called indicator session
 * kenvandine doesn't think in a default install
<seb128> asac, the one called user switcher tool in the list
<seb128> where the dx one is called "session indicator"
<pitti> seb128: we could use it for stracciatella
<asac> seb128: ok. but thats not enabled by default?
<seb128> so user who drop the ubuntu one usually add back the upstream variant
<pitti> if it's easy to switch
<seb128> pitti, right that's why we kept it and why I ask
<seb128> but maybe we should binary split it and add it in depends for stracciatella
<pitti> oh argh, I think stracciatella is still broken, still gotta work on this
<asac> seb128: is that in a separate package?
<seb128> asac, not now
<seb128> asac, not enabled by default? no
<seb128> at least no on your panel bar
<seb128> but it's in the applet list in the default install
<asac> i dont really care. i think we should review what is in the panel applet list by default at some point though
<asac> not sure if it has to happen now. if its easy, putting in a separate package and not instlaling by default sounds rasonable
<seb128> do we say it's low priority enough for karmic that we don't care?
<seb128> or do we want to binary split it?
<pitti> seb128: if it doesn't get in the way, I'd just keep it FWIW
<seb128> pitti, it just confuse users who drop the applet and what to add it back
<asac> do we need it for this stracciatella thing?
<seb128> but I don't think it's a common usecase
<jcastro> kenvandine: Riddell: I need quick descriptions of what your openweek sessions will be about, please just mail them to me.
<pitti> seb128: *nod*
<kenvandine> jcastro, ok
<jcastro> kenvandine: Riddell: Or I can just make it up, up to you. :D
<seb128> asac, no strong opinion, it's better I guess
<asac> i think a) if we dont need it and we are sure our indicator is feature complete enough, drop it
<asac> b) if we need it somewhere else ... dont do the split if its too much work
<seb128> ok thanks for the opinion
<pitti> it's not GNOME, so for stracciatella it'd be nice to have
<seb128> I think I will review that with pitti for stracciatella out of the meeting
<pitti> ok
<asac> k
<seb128> it was just to get a feeling of what others think
<rickspencer3> so, I think that's meeting adjourned?
<bryce> thanks!
<seb128> thanks everybody!
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<awe> see ya
<asac> thx
<kalon33> seb128: I had a question : is it normal that polkit-gnome-authorization is not as complete as it was in Jaunty about permissions setting ?
<pitti> thanks all
<seb128> question for pitti
<seb128> but I think the old tool doesn't handle polkit-1
<seb128> which is what karmic uses now
<pitti> seb128: user switcher you mean?
<seb128> not sure if we should still install the old manager
<pitti> we don't
<seb128> pitti, no, the polkit-gnome-authorization one kalon33 just asked
<pitti> $ ls /usr/share/PolicyKit/policy/
<pitti> com.ubuntu.checkbox.policy
<pitti> and that's being fixed
<seb128> $ dlocate polkit-gnome-authorization
<seb128> policykit-gnome: /usr/share/applications/polkit-gnome-authorization.desktop
<pitti> seb128: we don't, policykit-gnome hasn't been installed by default for several weeks already
<seb128> policykit-gnome: /usr/bin/polkit-gnome-authorization
<seb128> pitti, it doesn't get cleaned on upgrade then
<pitti> right
<seb128> maybe it should?
 * pitti checks rdepends
<pitti> we ought to demote it
<pitti> -- karmic/main i386 deps on policykit-gnome:
<pitti> gnome-mount
<seb128> should that be demoted too?
<pitti> -- karmic/main i386 deps on gnome-mount:
<pitti> libnautilus-burn4
<pitti> a-haa
<seb128> dito
<pitti> can we drop that?
<seb128> yes or demote it rather
<seb128> hum   python-nautilusburn
<pitti> I meant, drop the "Recommends: gnome-mount (>= 0.4)" and demote the two
<seb128> no
<seb128> gnome-python-desktop still build bindings...
<seb128> we can probably stop building those
<seb128> but it's a bit short before karmic now
<seb128> can we just make update-manager uninstall those on upgrade?
<seb128> those = gnome-mount + policykit-gnome
<pitti> seb128: why can't we demote those two ^ ?
<seb128> oh, I misread what you wrote
<seb128> we can
<seb128> yeah, just change the recommends to suggests
<seb128> and demote
<pitti> and drop the recommends from libnautilus-burn
<seb128> +1
<pitti> cool
<seb128> sorry for being slow there
<pitti> np
<seb128> that will still not update-manager clean those though
 * pitti -> dinner
<pitti> seb128: if they are in universe, it will
<seb128> we need mvo to do that for us
<seb128> pitti, no it won't
<seb128> I asked mvo some days ago
<pitti> main->universe packages should be offered for cleanup
<pitti> mvo: ^ no?
<seb128> he said we have no way to know if user are using the softwares
<pitti> seb128: ok, if not, then it seems we need to beg mvo indeed
<seb128> so we don't do that automatically
<pitti> seb128: we could also just introduce a synthetic conflicts: in policykit-1-gnome
<seb128> let's get dinner and talk with mvo tomorrow
<seb128> or later
<pitti> ok; it's on my todo list now
<kalon33> pitti, seb128 : what is the new way to manage such authorizations we used to manage with it in Jaunty ?
<kalon33> thanks for your help
<seb128> no gui that I know about no
<kalon33> bon appÃ©tit seb128 :)
<seb128> kalon33, thanks
<chrisccoulson> kalon33 / seb128 - i'm sure i read a blog (i think from davidz) that said there probably wouldn't be a replacement graphical tool for managing authorizations
<chrisccoulson> i think the plan is to merge stuff like that in to a new user accounts tool
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, works for me, that makes sense
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it makes more sense rather than having a standalone tool
<chrisccoulson> and we need a nice user accounts tool anyway:)
<kalon33> chrisccoulson, it would be a shame not having any gui to manage it easily though
<kalon33> but if we have a new user accounts tool which integrates it it would be great
<chrisccoulson> kalon33 - i agree, but having a stand alone tool is not the best way. that sort of thing should be part of a user accounts tool, as you're essentially managing user privileges
<mclasen> chrisccoulson:  yeah, we want it to be very simple, though; mostly just two or three profiles (admin vs regular user vs guest)
<mclasen> david added the necessary support for profiles/roles/whatever to polkit
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - thanks, that makes sense
<chrisccoulson> i'm glad i didn't just dream about reading it somewhere;)
<kalon33> ^^
<kalon33> I really look forward such a great tool will wait to test it ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - devkit-disks thinks my thumb drive is an ipod ;)
<kalon33> pitti, I've another question : the python-zopeinterface is marked local or obsolete in Ubuntu whereas it is somehow linked with apport and we can't uninstall it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, lucky you, gvfs thinks my ipod is a standard storage
<chrisccoulson> heh, it seems there must be some logic reversed somewhere ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no, pitti started looked at the ipod issue
<chrisccoulson> cool
<seb128> the gdu backend doesn't seem to know about audio players
<seb128> chrisccoulson, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24500
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 24500 in detection "need property for music players" [Normal,New]
<chrisccoulson> seb128- thanks, i'll subscribe to that
<chrisccoulson> i really need to learn how all this stuff works
<seb128> same here
<chrisccoulson> it's just difficult to find the time to be able to lock myself away for several days while i figure it all out ;)
<chrisccoulson> maybe i should do that over the weekend!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, or maybe you should just use weekends to do something else and not overwork ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, maybe
<chrisccoulson> i don't like not understanding things though ;)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - is there a typo on 95-devkit-disks.rules?
<chrisccoulson> shouldn't ENV{ID_MEDIA_PLAYER}="?*", ENV{DKD_PRESENTATION_ICON_NAME}="multimedia-player" be:
<chrisccoulson> ENV{ID_MEDIA_PLAYER}=="?*", ENV{DKD_PRESENTATION_ICON_NAME}="multimedia-player"
<chrisccoulson> instead?
<chrisccoulson> it seems that every device i plug in ends up with the attribute"ID_MEDIA_PLAYER=?*"
<mvo> seb128: hi, policykit-gnome and gnome-mount?
<mvo> seb128: those two need removal?
<seb128> mvo, yes
<mvo> seb128: I add them now
<mvo> seb128: is there any use-case left for them? or should they go away in any case?
<mvo> (i.e. removal upfront or as part of the obsoleted packages)
<seb128> mvo, I don't think there is any use for those no
<seb128> they are deprecated techs
 * mvo nods
<mvo> seb128: thanks for the gtkbuilder discussion
<seb128> mvo, you're welcome
<seb128> mvo, I suggest changing the char to be utf8 in the .ui for karmic
<seb128> and doing a call for translation updates
<mvo> seb128: I wonder if I should just write a "def _(s) if "..." in s: s.replace()
<mvo> seb128: switching to utf8 in the ui file is not ideal as gtkbuilder keeps changing it back
<mvo> so a single "save" and its gone
<seb128> mvo, debian patch for it ;-)
<mvo> haha
<mvo> not a bad idea :)
<seb128> at least it will apply of conflict
<seb128> so you don't screw without noticing
<seb128> should do for karmic and we should fix intltool and glade next cycle
<seb128> of conflict -> or conflict
<mvo> seb128: *nod*
<pitti> chrisccoulson: eww, indeed
<mvo> seb128: I can even unfuzzy the strings myself
<seb128> mvo, how?
<seb128> mvo, editing manually all the .po files?
<mvo> yes
<mvo> well, sed s//
<mvo> etc
<chrisccoulson> pitti - correcting it seems to fix my issue :)
<seb128> mvo, and that will not unfuzzy the launchpad translations
<pitti> chrisccoulson: will send/upload updated patch, thanks!
<mvo> I have a rosetta export of the current launchpad translations
<seb128> mvo, oh ok
<chrisccoulson> you're welcome
<kenvandine> pitti, bug 436742 adding launchpad bits to the menu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436742 in empathy "Empathy needs Launchpad integration" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436742
<seb128> kenvandine, you want pitti especially to look at this one?
<kenvandine> nah, just he and i had talked about it
<kenvandine> can you sponsor it?
<kenvandine> very low risk, and would be nice to have
<seb128> let me look seems fine for karmic
<seb128> right
<kenvandine> cool :)
<kklimonda> great, empathy is blocking xv port..
<seb128> kenvandine, uploaded
<kwwii> lool: btw, I put your packaged version of humanity in bzr on lp...the original humanity bzr will be the test-bed and mine will be the official released version
<lool> kwwii: did you import the history?
<kwwii> seb128: btw, I pushed an update to the gdm theme...I was told to make the selected colors non-white to fix a bug in the power-button active state (white icon on white background)
<kwwii> lool: if you mean the changelog, yes
<kwwii> lool: not sure of any other way of doing that
<kwwii> lool: in any case, I told mac_v to get his updates ready and talk to me but haven't heard anything back yet
<lool> kwwii: lp:ubuntu/karmic/humanity-icon-theme
<lool> kwwii: Start from that, it has the upload history
<lool> up to 0.4.1ubuntu3
<kwwii> lool: right, that is what I did
<lool> kwwii: Where's your branch?
<kwwii> lool: lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release
<chrisccoulson> has anyone noticed that evolution seems to go unresponsive for some time when sending e-mail?
<chrisccoulson> oh
<lool> kwwii: Uh it only has one revision
<chrisccoulson> it hasn't gone unresponsive
<chrisccoulson> it's crashed!
<lool> kwwii: Just branch lp:ubuntu/karmic/humanity-icon-theme and push it, it has the history == all uploads to ubuntu
<kwwii> lool: ahhh, ok...will do
<kwwii> although, I did a simple branch of humanity-icon-theme and then just pushed it to the other url
<kwwii> maybe I missed something or messed something up
<lool> kwwii: What did you "branch"?
<lool> kwwii: If you did apt-get source + bzr init then you only imported the latest version
<kwwii> lool: yeah, sorry...you're right
<kwwii> lool: I'll fix it..the whole point is to take the design related stuff off the plate of those who have better things to do
<pitti> seb128: are you going to do the libnautilus-burn dep change, or want me to?
<seb128> pitti, I'm busy on other things right now but will do later if you don't before
<pitti> ok, doing now then
<seb128> thanks
<pitti> seb128: hm, we don't even install nautilus-cd-burner any more
<pitti> looks like one of those packages which should eventually be demoted as well
<pitti> it actually calls gnome-mount --eject, hmm
<jono> kenvandine, around?
<pitti> seb128: uploaded, and demoted gnome-mount and policykit-gnome
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<kwwii> lool: hrm, I did that but I don't think it made any difference
<bryce> rickspencer3:  bug #438657 is another mesa regression.  This one is just an application crash, and there is a patch already available and tested for it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438657 in mesa "[G45] Blender: crash in brw_prepare_vertices after "Render this window"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438657
<pitti> seb128: eww, after a reboot suddenly most of my folders and files in nautilus have a green checkmark emblem
<chrisccoulson> pitti - thats already known
<chrisccoulson> u1 breakage
<seb128> pitti, it's an ubuntuone-client bug
 * pitti uploads a new usplash to get back the fadeout effect on shutdown
<chrisccoulson> pitti - bug
<chrisccoulson> 450112
<chrisccoulson> oops
<chrisccoulson> bug 450112
<lool> kwwii: Compare bzr log
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450112 in ubuntuone-client "Entire Hard Drive Marked as ubuntuone-synchronized" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450112
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks
<seb128> oh, fix commited
<dobey> pitti: about to make a release
<seb128> dobey, is that ready to be uploaded to karmic?
<dobey> seb128: almost
<seb128> ok
<seb128> let me know and I will sponsor it
<lool> kwwii: bzr branch lp:ubuntu/karmic/humanity-icon-theme and cd humanity-icon-theme and bzr log; you should see a bunch of revs
<lool> 12
<pitti> so why are all of my folders synchronized except "debian" and ubuntu"? :-)
<lool> and tags (bzr tags)
<dobey> seb128: ok, thanks.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, are you still looking for bugs to track?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, if you have some
<kwwii> lool: yes, now I get your point
<kwwii> lool: thanks
<seb128> dobey, btw do you have a recommendation about what to do about not translatable strings due to utf-8 escaping in gtkbuilder issues?
<dobey> seb128: for karmic? not sure. is there a list of known affected packages?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, those are in the milestoned list but not sure they would interest you, there is a file-roller crash which get quite some duplicates on karmic
<chrisccoulson> i can take a look at the file-roller onw
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the other issue is an appearance capplet crash in pango function happening on theme install
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that one is there for several cycles and collect a zillion duplicate
<seb128> chrisccoulson, otherwise there is also gnome-panel hanging with > 8 tasks on vertical layouts
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll have a look and see if i can figure anything out
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks ;-)
<seb128> dobey, not that I know about no, there is 2 strings in software-center and 1 in gnome-bluetooth
<seb128> dobey, I think we should edit the .ui with a text editor and change the string to be the utf-8 one there for karmic
<dobey> seb128: that sounds reasonable to me
<seb128> dobey, but if you have a better suggestion feel free to tell us ;-)
<seb128> ok, thanks
<dobey> seb128: i don't have a better suggestion of fixing for karmic. proper fix will require new glade3, new intltool, and new releases of whatever modules are affected
<dobey> so no small feat, and i'm busy enough right now with the critical issues in ubuntuone :)
<seb128> ok, let's do the ui editing for karmic
<pitti> chrisccoulson: don't worry, we've got plenty :)
<seb128> and aim at fixing that properly for karmic+1
<dobey> seb128: yeah, it's not a hard fix, so it could probably be fixed for karmic-updates (2.28.x)
<dobey> but time is really tight right now :)
<seb128> right
<dobey> seb128: and i'll poke you as soon as i get the u1-client release done (as soon as qa runs over it with a truck)
<seb128> ok thanks
<seb128> lool, you know about unr right? ;-)
<seb128> lool, can you look at bug #450647
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450647 in gnome-panel ""add to panel" dialog missing" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450647
<dobey> seb128: do i need to do anything to the bugs to get them more visible to hold up CD builds or anything?
<seb128> dobey, nominate those for karmic
<dobey> will do
<dobey> mac_v: ping
<mac_v> dobey: hey... i think  dan just added the icons
<lool> seb128: It might be on purpose
<lool> But I'm not sure
<lool> does someone know what the /apps/panel/toplevels/disable_movement key does?
<seb128> lool, who would know? njpatel?
<lool> I think it's that key which causes it
<lool> seb128: Yes
<seb128> lool, ok thanks
<rickspencer3> dobey, so what's the deal with files on folks desktops being marked as synced with U1?
<lool> I'm pretty sure it's on purpose that we don't allow adding panels and just wanted a simpler experience with as much space as possible for window titles
 * rickspencer3 restarts
<lool> seb128: It's weird, I see the code in http://www.gnome.org/~rodrigo/gnome-panel/gnome-panel-disable-movement.patch but not in our gnome-panel
<dobey> rickspencer3: a bug in the nautilus extension that didn't check that the file for which info was being requested, is under the Ubuntu one directory
<dobey> blah
<dobey> ask and reboot, eh
<seb128> lool, the upstream gnome-panel requires to use a modifier to move the bars now so I think we dropped the hack we had
<lool> Hmm no that's to move the panel
<rickspencer3> oh shucks
<kalon33> chrisccoulson : Sorry, I have the same problem with my usb key as yours... is there something to do ?
<lool> seb128: apparently this is disabled when either gconf_client_key_is_writable() fails on PANEL_GCONF_TOPLEVELS PANEL_GCONF_APPLETS or PANEL_GCONF_OBJECTS
<rickspencer3> pitti, is my usb attached hard drive supposed to look like an ipod?
<pitti> rickspencer3: yes, karmic gives you ipods for free
<seb128> rickspencer3, it's fixed in karmic since an hour ago now
<rickspencer3> yes!
<pitti> rickspencer3: j/k, fixed
<seb128> or rather uploaded
<rickspencer3> sweet
<seb128> wait for publishing
<lool> seb128: I dont see what would prevent that though
<pitti> my testing sucks clearly :)
<rickspencer3> what about this everything has U1 checkmark thing?
<pitti> that's not my fault
<seb128> lool, ok, maybe it's just the trask like taking the space or something
<rickspencer3> pitti, you need to buy one of every kind of hardware that there is
<seb128> rickspencer3, about to be uploaded too, dobey roll a tarball for this one
<rickspencer3> pitti, right, I assume it came iwth the new U1 client, have they fixed that?
<rickspencer3> ok
<rickspencer3> that's all
 * rickspencer3 will be quiet now
<rickspencer3> ug
<seb128> oh, not all? ;-)
<pitti> rickspencer3: some final breakage fun :)
 * seb128 runs
<seb128> rickspencer3, if you really have an ipod and it's not working I blame it on pitti!
<rickspencer3> I don't, but my kids have some
<dobey> mac_v: ok, they're there, but not exactly what i was hoping to see :)
<rickspencer3> maybe I should test it, and find some annoying and obscure bugs to assign to pitti
<pitti> rickspencer3: that first upload was supposed to fix music player icons; it just did a "little" too much :)
<dobey> rickspencer3: a bug in the nautilus extension that didn't check that the file for which info was being requested, is under the Ubuntu one directory
<seb128> I think he broke it so he can expense an ipod to debug ;-)
 * seb128 runs away from pitti now
<rickspencer3> right
<pitti> seb128: sssssh!
<mac_v> dobey: ;) ... i havent checked them yet... let me check and get back
<rickspencer3> good idea
 * pitti pats his shiny G1
<rickspencer3> dobey, thanks
<pitti> rickspencer3: in all seriousness, bug 440290 is still annyoing
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440290 in devicekit-disks "iPod only being detected as Drive, not as iPod" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440290
<dobey> mac_v: they are both a cloud, and idle is filled in, while offline is just the stroke
<lool> seb128: Right, will check tomorrow
<seb128> lool, thanks
<pitti> rickspencer3: it's much harder to fix than just the icon thing, but I think I'll do a h4ck1sh workaround for karmic
<dobey> pitti: oh, is that why my ipod isn't showing up on the desktop as multimedia-player?
<pitti> dobey: correct; with today's fixes you'll get the correct icon, but not correct behaviour yet
<dobey> pitti: oh, what's the behavior difference?
<seb128> it should open a dialog asking if you want to run rhythmbox
<seb128> and when browsing it the banner should say it's a music player
<rickspencer3> seb128, does it work from within rhythmbox?
<rickspencer3> like can you open rb and then navigate to the ipod
<rickspencer3> ?
<dobey> oh
<dobey> so the stuff i don't want anyway, doesn't work
<dobey> sounds good to me :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: I don't think so; at least it's broken with my G1
<rickspencer3> ok
<pitti> that worked before
<rickspencer3> hmm
<pitti> rickspencer3: I suspect it's the same root cause
<pitti> rickspencer3: it's on the karmic final list
<rickspencer3> wasn't there supposed to be a new desktopcouch today?
<mac_v> dobey: it looks a bit different from what i expected too... let me edit it
<dobey> i guess i need to reboot again
<dobey> right now my ipod doesn't show up at all
<seb128> same here
<seb128> I can't say the apport is not listed in nautilus or gvfs or rhythmbox now
<seb128> wth?
 * dobey goes to get some tea
<seb128> rickspencer3, it works in rhythmbox
<seb128> I tried in a guest session
<rickspencer3> phew
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128
<rickspencer3> maybe we all need ipods for testing?
<rickspencer3> and G1s too, prolly
<rickspencer3> and bigger monitors
<lool> seb128: Right so the applet is eating all the space in the panel; will check with njpatel whether we care about adding applets under UNR and report in the bug; thanks
<lool> I moved it around
<jcastro> who needs g1 testing? I have 2!
<seb128> lool, thanks
<rickspencer3> jcastro, nm, I was being a smart ass
<jcastro> rickspencer3: it's probably a gtk bug anyway
 * seb128 kicks jcastro
<jcastro> heh
<seb128> ;-)
<rickspencer3> pitti,shall I remove bug 434878 from karmic?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434878 in empathy "video calls fail frequently" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434878
<pitti> if it's not really "frequently" any more, sure
<pitti> otherwise, if it's still too unreliable, we should perhaps just disable it for karmic
<rickspencer3> I think it's "ok" for karmic
<rickspencer3> some people still have troubles
<jcastro> I still get "frequently"
<rickspencer3> but I think we should ship
<seb128> yes, let's ship and fix in a sru if we can
<rickspencer3> pitti, I'm not smart enough to figure out how to remove from "status is tracked in karmic"
<pitti> rickspencer3: set it to "wontfix"
<rickspencer3> awe
<pitti> rickspencer3: then the "floating" task comes back
<rickspencer3> that seems wrong
<rickspencer3> but, ok
<rickspencer3> hi robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hi rick
<rickspencer3> I haven't had a chance to retest gdm, but seems you fixed it yesterday?
<rickspencer3> niiice
<robert_ancell> yup and upstream seems happy - it appears they've been working around this issue for ages :)
<robert_ancell> a nice one-liner patch
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, well done!
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you know how come it started breaking recently?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I got an upstream asking about your patch to move the power actions to a menu too
<robert_ancell> seb128, it's because we added xsplash - it has focus and when it closes there was no toplevel window for metacity to give focus to.  The bug was always present when closing the accessibility dialog
<seb128> he saw that on an ubuntu box at the boston summit apparently, I pointed the bugzilla number
<seb128> robert_ancell, oh ok
<awe> rickspencer3, hey
<rickspencer3> hi awe
<rickspencer3> sorry, I was afraid of that
<rickspencer3> I meant "awe" as in "awe too bad", not "awe is tony" :)
<awe> ;)
<awe> glad you said it... i wanted to ask TheMuso about a bug during this meeting
<rickspencer3> awe, the Eastern edition meeting is in 1h20
<awe> ok, cool
<rickspencer3> but seems TheMuso is online, at least he did an upload not too long ago
<rickspencer3> seb128, is it ok with you if I won't fix bug 435329
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435329 in empathy "Empathy is unusable if indicator applet is not on the panel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435329
<rickspencer3> seems to not occur in default installation, and there is an easy work around
<seb128> reading
<seb128> not sure it's a corner case but if that's an option user can change...
<rickspencer3> seb128, so this is:
<rickspencer3> 1. you uninstall messaging indicator
<rickspencer3> 2. You have to go to empathy prefs and tell it not to use messaging indicator
<rickspencer3> a bug indeed, but doesn't seem it should be targeted, and I would rather have ken work on crashers fist
 * TheMuso is around, about to go and grab breakfast, so if we wanna do the meeting when I am back at the computer with breakfast, I'm all for it.
<seb128> what happens if you don't do 2?
<seb128> rickspencer3, agreed, it's not targetted right now though, < high and no milestone, right?
<rickspencer3> oh
<rickspencer3> well,  I just turned of the milestone
<seb128> works for me
<rickspencer3> seb128, you mean, it works for you if I take it out of karmic?
<seb128> I still dislike the indicator applet thing and I think many user do but it's easy to workaround and I think that's something for after karmic
<seb128> could be worth a sru though
<seb128> rickspencer3, yes
<seb128> I agree it's not worth spending efforts now, we have higher priorities
<rickspencer3> k
<seb128> could be a good sru target if we have an easy fix after karmic though
<seb128> ie low importance karmic task + no milestone should be ok
<kalon33> good night all !
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell I see the Easter Edition is now, not in one hour
<rickspencer3> I've updated the wiki with notes from the meeting this morning:
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-10-13
 * rickspencer3 copies in activity reports now
<rickspencer3> tkamppeter, hi
<tkamppeter> hi
<tkamppeter> rickspencer3: hi
<TheMuso> Hey rickspencer3, robert_ancell.
<chrisccoulson> pitti - is this g-p-m crash reproducible?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I can't, unfortunately
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i tried looking through the dbus-glib code to figure out why the condition might occur, with no success yet
<chrisccoulson> but i notice that the return parameter is "G_TYPE_STRING, disks->priv->cookie"
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I just had a quick look there, but it's many code paths to check.. but thanks for having another look
<chrisccoulson> should that not be "G_TYPE_STRING, &disks->priv->cookie"
<chrisccoulson> which is generally how strings are obtained with every other call
<chrisccoulson> pitti - someone else has seen this behaviour before btw:
<chrisccoulson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=541632
<ubottu> Debian bug 541632 in libdbus-glib-1-2 "libdbus-glib-1-2: wonky results from dbus_g_proxy_call" [Unknown,Open]
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, d->p->cookie is a return value there?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that is a string returned from the call
<robert_ancell> pitti - bug 450707 - I didn't mark these as translatable as it was past string freeze. But they're already translated, does it need a freeze request?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450707 in gdm ""Suspend", "Hibernate", "Restart" and "Shut Down" options in login screen shows untranslated, albeit they're translated" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450707
<chrisccoulson> (or it should point to a string returned by dk-disks)
<mclasen> looks wrong, indeed
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23617
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 23617 in GLib "dbus-gvalue should set an error when demarshal_basic doesn't recognize type" [Normal,New]
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i wonder if passing &disks->priv->cookie might fix it?
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - which bit were you referring to that looks wrong?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: plausible
<chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm clutching at straws though ;)
<chrisccoulson> but returning FALSE with no error seems to be wrong anyway
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it would also make sense to actually apply Andres' patch to get the actual error message
<chrisccoulson> which patch was that?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=29055
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'll upload that, it seems very useful
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, possibly. i don't understand dbus-glib enough though ;)
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks!
<mclasen> chrisccoulson: the missing & you pointed out; thanks for finding that
<chrisccoulson> mclasen - you're welcome
<chrisccoulson> hopefully it fixes our crash:)
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: So, anything to discuss in today's meeting?
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, yes, briefly
<pitti> chrisccoulson, mclasen: mind to add a comment to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598339 ?
<ubottu> Gnome bug 598339 in gnome-power-manager "segfault in gpm_disks_register() on error == NULL" [Major,Unconfirmed]
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell ready for Eastern Edition?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes
<TheMuso> yes
<rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-10-13
<rickspencer3> ok, first we (they really, pitti ran the meeting today) discussed the next gnome update
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, can do
<rickspencer3> note that robert_ancell and seb128 will be quite busy with this next week
<pitti> chrisccoulson: *hug*
<rickspencer3> so no assigning bugs to robert_ancell at all hours for rickspencer3 during this time
<robert_ancell> i wish it was gnome update day every day ;)
<rickspencer3> seriously, we should all help with gnome by not overloading seb128 and robert_ancell, and
<rickspencer3> anyone with spare cycles can pitch in and help
 * chrisccoulson hugs pitti
 * TheMuso will have a few GNOME packages to update as well for that
<rickspencer3> thanks TheMuso, good to remind us
<rickspencer3> any questions about gnome updates next week?
<TheMuso> no
<TheMuso> I'll be on hand to upload robert_ancell's stuff during the day as well, I'll make sure of it.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, great!
<rickspencer3> next we discussed bugs
<rickspencer3> first, looking at targeted and High bugs, not too many left
<rickspencer3> though asac is finding bug 435073 a bit of a tough nut
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435073 in network-manager "NetworkManager 0.8 can not get IPv4 address for wired Auto connections because IPv6 fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435073
<rickspencer3> and bryce's xorg work, and Kubuntu issues were not on the list
<TheMuso> Right.
<rickspencer3> so, what bugs are you guys working on that aren't on the list?
 * bryce perks up
 * bryce waves and returns to patch review
<robert_ancell> guest session fixes 425952
<robert_ancell> bug 425952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425952 in gdm-guest-session "gdm requiring password for guest session" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425952
<robert_ancell> hey bryce, my text mode no longer works, if update doesn't fix that I might be bugging you :)
<bryce> robert_ancell, sure just be sure to do `ubuntu-bug xorg` first
<rickspencer3> ok, TheMuso, I see from your activity report and also your uploads you've been busy
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, are there particular bugs that still worry you, such as that crasher in speech dispatcher?
<bryce> robert_ancell, (also, be aware its probably a kernel drm bug)
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yeah, and got one more big thing to nail today.
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Its not worrying me to the point where I feel its almost a release blocker or anything, but one bug has come up that was due to dtchen overlooking an important piece in fixing volume restore issues. Bug 449589
<robert_ancell> bryce, yes I'm assuming it's just a temporary issue which is why I'm waiting for the update (text mode seems to break quite frequently during upgrades)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449589 in alsa-utils "Alsa mixer Master Front volume resets to minimum on startup" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449589
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: I intend to target that and fix it today.
<chrisccoulson> right, time to look at file-roller crasher now
<rickspencer3> noted
<rickspencer3> ok, there's a couple of bugs that tkamppeter is working on that look rather serious
<rickspencer3> bug 359975
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359975 in gtk+2.0 "evince sometimes yield error "Error printing: Too many failed attempts"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359975
<rickspencer3> and bug 419143
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 419143 in evince "Printing from evince (and perhaps other GTK apps) to PostScript printers is broken" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/419143
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, could take a look at 359975 *after* you crack the guest login nut?
<rickspencer3> It's a totally weird bug, and something tells me that you might bring a fresh perspective
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, ok, will do
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, from the upstream bug:
<rickspencer3> And others confirmed that moving the mouse while focusing evince works 100% of
<rickspencer3> the time. Don't laugh.
<rickspencer3> so if you wave the mouse around while the document is spooling, it works
<TheMuso> ROFL
<rickspencer3> well, by "you" I mean user effected by this bug
<rickspencer3> this might be one of those "won't print on Tuesdays" bugs
<robert_ancell> weird...
<rickspencer3> indeed
<rickspencer3> upstream seems similarly mystified
<chrisccoulson> pitti - do you want to upload another g-p-m change then? :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yep, and also adding a git-formatted patch to upstream bug
<rickspencer3> but printing pdfs seems rather a common scenario to me
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: agreed
<rickspencer3> ok, any other business?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - can you not commit yet?
<tkamppeter> bug 359975 should get a nice place at the side of the "OOo does not print on Tuesdays" bug in the Ubuntu history ...
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359975 in gtk+2.0 "evince sometimes yield error "Error printing: Too many failed attempts"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359975
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: no
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ?
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, no
<rickspencer3> ok, that's the Easter Edition
<rickspencer3> thanks, and thanks for staying late tkamppeter ;)
<robert_ancell> Eggs for everyone!
<kklimonda> hey, is the current gdm "configuration tool" going to be final for 9.10? People are laughing at it and I can't really say anything to defend it ;)
<dobey> doh, no seb
<dobey> pitti: still around?
<pitti> just about to go to bed
<dobey> pitti: care to do a quick upload?
<pitti> dobey: bug#?
<dobey> pitti: didn't file a bug for it yet, should i?
<pitti> dobey: well, or any place where to get the code
<dobey> i /just/ pushed the bzr branch
<dobey> lp:~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntu/karmic/ubuntuone-client/karmic
<robert_ancell> bryce, how do you know how to check what radeon card series you have (R300/R400 etc)
<robert_ancell> pitti - bug 450707 - I didn't mark these as translatable as it was past string freeze. But they're already translated, does it need a freeze request?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450707 in gdm ""Suspend", "Hibernate", "Restart" and "Shut Down" options in login screen shows untranslated, albeit they're translated" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450707
<pitti> robert_ancell: they should be translatable, yes
<pitti> robert_ancell: that's just a bug fix, doesn't need an exception
<robert_ancell> pitti, ok, thanks
<pitti> (making displayed strings translatable, I mean)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Does it not say what it is in lspci?
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, X300
<TheMuso> ah
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, I'm not sure what class that is in
<TheMuso> right me neither
<pitti> dobey: uploaded
 * pitti -> bed, cu tomororw!
<dobey> pitti: good night. thanks a lot! :)
 * robert_ancell stomach growl -> breakfast time
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-14
<awe> TheMuso, hey was wondering what happened with pulse / rtkit.  Last time we spoke, you mentioned that you'd be uploading a version of pulse without the rtkit dependency?
<TheMuso> awe: Right, I'll upload pulse with the dep removed today. I was waiting to see if there was anything else that had to be pushed as well.
<awe> TheMuso, ok, cool...  I checked it earlier today and notice it was still there, so just wanted to double-check with you.
<awe> TheMuso, been playing drums at all lately?  UDSJam looks like it may happen again in Dallas.
<TheMuso> awe: No, as I don't have access to a kit. I am moving to a new place in a couple of months so don't have the money to get one either, although I do intend to save to get one.
<TheMuso> awe: As for the jam, thats cool.
<awe> TheMuso, ah, ok.  Well, we'll have pete's electronic kit setup all week for practice
<TheMuso> right but I am not sure I'll bother. After playing that, I never want to play rubber pads for a kit again.
<awe> TheMuso, we're trying to work some kinks out of the whole thing so that we can get more community involvement, but also still entertain folks
<awe> doh
<TheMuso> great
<awe> well, we'll have a keyboard too!
<TheMuso> thats good
<awe> anyways, thanks for the rtkit info
<TheMuso> np
<awe> time for dinner
<dtchen> TheMuso: fixed alsa-utils, pushed to my bzr branch and uploaded to the PPA. Sorry, I really did test across Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu on three different machines before making that change.
<TheMuso> dtchen: np
<TheMuso> dtchen: I'll give it a few hours to get tested by users. I'll upload it late this evening so it can be given a chance to be tested.
<dtchen> TheMuso: thanks
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: Welcome back.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey, gdm testing...
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: No the fact you haven't been online all day. I thought you had an ISP outage.
<robert_ancell> TheMuso, I was on this morning but I have to keep restarting X to test GDM
<mac_v> dobey: around?
<TheMuso> robert_ancell: ah ok. I hope your connectivity is better today in any case.
<lifeless> robert_ancell: if you had another machine you could run bip or some such:)
<robert_ancell> lifeless, bip?
<lifeless> apt-cache show bip
<Jack87> hi all
<Jack87> i have a question about dual monitors i cant get it to function right
<Jack87> i am on a laptop with a nvidia video card so to change display settings it is done under nvidia x server settings
<Jack87> do i need to set it as twin view in configuration or spread x screen for an extended desktop... but leave the laptop panel as the main screen
<Jack87> when i set it to twin view extended desktop works fine except it makes my lower task bar go to the second screen and top bar go to the second screen. my desktop icons remain on the first screen
<Jack87> ok weird..
<Jack87> when it asked me if it was ok i said cancel
<Jack87> and then did it again and now everything works perfecct
<mac_v> !topic | Jack87
<ubottu> Jack87: Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<superm1> robert_ancell, perhaps you might be able to help with a question i've got.  i've got an app that i'm running on both xfce and gnome.  on xfce, button images show up on my buttons, but not on gnome.  is there a gtk property somewhere i'm missing that needs to be set and is normally overridden in a gnome environment?
<robert_ancell> superm1, gconf key /desktop/gnome/interface/buttons_have_icons
<robert_ancell> The GNOME default is no icons, I'm not sure what sets it
<superm1> robert_ancell, ah ha!
<superm1> is there a way to override it on a per-application basis then?
<robert_ancell> superm1, I don't think so but you can mark the buttons as requiring their icon
 * robert_ancell looking...
<robert_ancell> superm1, this may help: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkSettings.html#GtkSettings--gtk-button-images
<superm1> robert_ancell, great thanks.  definitely a step in the right direction
<robert_ancell> superm1, ah I found it, it is for menus you can explicitly require the image: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkImageMenuItem.html#gtk-image-menu-item-get-always-show-image
<superm1> robert_ancell, oh but shame, such a thing doesn't exist for buttons huh.
<robert_ancell> superm1, if you really needed the icon you could make a button with a HBox with the image and label explicitly provided (yuck)
<superm1> robert_ancell, yeah i've got a few buttons that i had done that, and this explains why those were still working on gnome
<Zdra> kenvandine, About bug #435329: I hope last comment is a joke, right?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435329 in empathy "Empathy is unusable if indicator applet is not on the panel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435329
<Zdra> kenvandine, really if that can't be fixed please just drop your empathy patch
<mac_v> anyone know where i can find Kees Cook?
<robert_ancell_> bryce_, the radeon KMS seems to be working really well!
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> hey pitti
<didrocks> lut seb128
<seb128> hey didrocks, everybody
<didrocks> meld upstream is really responsive :)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<bryce_> robert_ancell, excellent
<didrocks> hello chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> hello didrocks!
<robert_ancell> bryce_, I've noticed that text mode is still broken without KMS... Do I file that against xorg or the kernel?
<bryce_> kernel
<robert_ancell> bryce_, and the kernel directly or the radeon module?
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, i will apply your other g-p-m patch later if hughsie hasn't done already
<pitti> chrisccoulson: good morning
<pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks!
<pitti> chrisccoulson: no, I just git fetched/rebased, not done yet
 * robert_ancell is not looking forward to pushing all the gdm patches upstream after Karmic is released - we're carrying 26 at the moment
<pitti> chrisccoulson: so I guess the "error == NULL" fix is optional now
<chrisccoulson> you should apply for GIT access though:)
<pitti> robert_ancell: many of them should already be in an upstream bug, though
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i think so
<pitti> robert_ancell: at least I usually forward mine, and tag them with the upstream bug
<robert_ancell> pitti, yeah but most of them require massaging to be committed :)
<robert_ancell> pitti, you're not going to like the hack to make the guest session switch - there's some aweful bug deep down I can't find so I've worked around it...
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson pitti robert_ancell
<seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: good work on this gpm bug!
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<seb128> robert_ancell, we already pushed a good part of the gdm work upstream no?
<seb128> they just suck at reviewing those
<chrisccoulson> upstream GDM?
<seb128> yes
<chrisccoulson> noone reviewed my patch to port the greeter to dk-power yet
<chrisccoulson> and i submtted that ages ago!
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah most of it's just sitting there.  They seem to want it to be perfect before they commit though so there's some stuff to change there
<robert_ancell> I think I'm going to try and be a GDM developer this cycle so we can get some progress
<seb128> robert_ancell, well we have also easy ones which could be commited and that nobody reviewed
<seb128> robert_ancell, and they clearly don't read bugzilla since they asked me the bzr command to get the ubuntu source because they wanted to look at the power action menu change
<seb128> ie they didn't notice it was in bugzilla
<robert_ancell> seb128, ah you said earlier - I couldn't see any comments on the bugzlilla bug
<robert_ancell> there's a pile of bugs in that bugzilla that should be closed, all the 2.20 stuff
<seb128> right
<robert_ancell> afaik everyone is using the head now right?  It was just us and Sun using 2.20?
<seb128> though some distro still use 2.20 and the old maintainer still roll tarballs
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, debian still use 2.20
<seb128> not sure about Sun I think they need to multiseat work to land
<seb128> which didn't happen for 2.28
<seb128> but maybe they have their own version now with those changes
<robert_ancell> the work that is being committed seems to be coming from sun so I guess they're planning to get the new one
<seb128> oh, robert_ancell fixed the gdm translation issue I had on my list for today
<seb128> one less thing to do ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, right, I was just wondering if they will use this cycle
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh I was going to ask - how do we get the 2.28.1 releases in in time?  Aren't they released after the final freeze?
<seb128> or if that's still work in progress there
<seb128> robert_ancell, we have a sort of standing exception
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah dunno.  Don't know what cycle they run on
<robert_ancell> seb128, so when is the final final freeze?
<seb128> robert_ancell, let's say we will package only bug fix tarballs and not weird change and get those reviewed and aceepted
<robert_ancell> (i.e. the CD making time)
<seb128> robert_ancell, around thursday or wednesday next week I would say
<seb128> dpm, hi
<robert_ancell> seb128, sure, that's what .1 release is _supposed_ to be right?  I pushed all the .1 changes on gcalctool as .deb patches because I wasn't sure they were going to get in in time!!
<seb128> dpm, I think you forgot about gdmsetup? I did email the translator about it meanwhile now
 * robert_ancell thanks the testers who find calculation bugs at the 11th hour
<seb128> robert_ancell, usually tarballs are rolled on monday
<seb128> robert_ancell, and all hands are on deck to get those in quickly
<dpm> seb128, hey, good morning sorry for not having been too responsive last week, I was at a sprint. I noticed your e-mail on ubuntu-translators. Thanks a lot
<seb128> dpm, no problem, you're welcome
<seb128> robert_ancell, let's say we have monday european time and your thursday to get those updates
<seb128> ie we will do sponsoring for you on thursday morning
<robert_ancell> seb128, so the 22nd, "ReleaseCandidate" is the really final freeze
<seb128> and that be done with what we can get in
<seb128> robert_ancell, release candidate is "if nothing is screwed that will be karmic"
<seb128> robert_ancell, ie no image respin if there is no reason to do one
<robert_ancell> seb128, desktop team lives on the edge :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, yes ;-)
<mac_v> seb128: hi... Where can i find Kees Cook?
<seb128> mac_v, he's kees on this IRC
<seb128> mac_v, #ubuntu-devel for example
<seb128> mac_v, but it's probably after work hour for him now
<mac_v> oh devel.. thanks
<robert_ancell> pitti, do you have any ideas about bug 292533 - if you restart your box in the middle of a guest session you can never start another as the user account is already there.  Is this a pre-Karmic issue?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 292533 in gdm-guest-session "Unable to start guest session if a user named guest exists" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292533
<pitti> robert_ancell: I think in the past it just re-used the guest account
<pitti> and it's still meant to be that way
<pitti> robert_ancell: please assign to me
<robert_ancell> pitti, done.  I think it's the last major issue affecting guest sessions
<mac_v> pitti: hi... does apport use a fixed size the 22px or the 24px icon for panel ? [like how messaging menu uses only 22px icon] or does it depend on the panel size?
<robert_ancell> seb128, pitti - my queue is empty so point me at anything that is important you guys don't solve today
 * robert_ancell regrets saying the last statement
<seb128> lol
<pitti> robert_ancell: oh, great job!
<seb128> robert_ancell, you rock
<seb128> robert_ancell, I will find you nice bugs today, otherwise you can pick in the milestoned list, cf topic
<seb128> robert_ancell, I did assign you a minor totem one the other day but it's minor I will probably find better bugs for you today
<robert_ancell> oh that list is hard... :)
<robert_ancell> I looked at bug 359975 today but couldn't reproduce.  My feeling is that 2.27 GTK+ changes have either solved it or would make it much clearer what is happening
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 359975 in gtk+2.0 "evince sometimes yield error "Error printing: Too many failed attempts"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/359975
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I think gpm has quite some issues too but nobody look to bugs there
<pitti> robert_ancell: I'd really appreciate a look at bug 443026
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443026 in evince "Printing produces broken PDF" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443026
<pitti> right now, evince is absolutely useless for printing
<pitti> you have to install the jaunty version to do anything sensible with printing PDFs
<robert_ancell> pitti, ok, that looks like my sort of bug
<pitti> robert_ancell: it's reproducible without a physical printer
<seb128> pitti, robert_ancell: we should maybe undo http://git.gnome.org/cgit/evince/commit/?h=gnome-2-28&id=2eedce4d1c281bde50edf87ec00821c1d10bd751
<pitti> seb128: oh, that was introduced only in karmic? I thought tkamppeter switched it over much earlier already
<seb128> pitti, no, only in karmic
<pitti> indeed, pdf2ps -> evince -> print works fine
<seb128> robert_ancell, bug #446230 might also be nice to fix though it's probably no high priority now either
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446230 in enchant "enchant custom words are not being used" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446230
<seb128> pitti, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585442
<ubottu> Gnome bug 585442 in printing "Evince should output PDF instead of PostScript when printing" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> pitti, that was changed in karmic indeed
<tkamppeter> pitti, robert_ancell, I have added a comment to bug 419143.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 419143 in evince "Printing from evince (and perhaps other GTK apps) to PostScript printers is broken" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/419143
<seb128> tseliot, hi, could you look to bug #433856?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433856 in screen-resolution-extra ""Display Properties" sets virtual resolution too low" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433856
<robert_ancell> tkamppeter, thanks
<robert_ancell> ok, see you all later
<seb128> robert_ancell, see you tomorrow!
<tkamppeter> pitt, robert_ancell, the problem of evince is that we switched from evince outputting crappy PostScript to outputting crappy PDF. We must somehow make it outputting a non-crappy print data stream.
<tseliot> seb128: sure, I'll add it to my TODO list for today. I have deadlines today
<seb128> tseliot, ok thanks
<tkamppeter> pitti ^^
<pitti> tkamppeter: hm, but "crappy but working" >> "crappy and broken"?
<tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps you should do s/crappy/broken/ on my last message.
<pitti> tkamppeter: heh
<tkamppeter> pitti: Strange is also that only evince produces such bad print data and not all other GTK apps. And evince produces bad print data for years already.
<pitti> tkamppeter: yeah, I'm not even sure whether it actually uses gtkprint nowadays
<tkamppeter> pitti, seems that it uses only the dialog and not the output stream generator.
<pitti> *nod*
<pitti> tkamppeter: also, I guess I completely disassembles the input PDF and creates an entirely new document when printing it, right?
<pitti> so that it can do tricks like 4-on-1, reverse order, selected pages, etc.
<pitti> although only the first should really require a total rewrite of the PDF
<seb128> it doesn't help to keep claiming those files are broken
<seb128> evince just open them file to display them
<seb128> print preview works
<seb128> etc
<tkamppeter> pitti, evince in fact re-renders the PDF to be able to do page management. They want to support CUPS-less environments.
<pitti> seb128: "those files"?
<tkamppeter> pitti: One should introduce a compile mode for evince for CUPS environment, letting evince passing through PostScript and PDF input files to CUPS and passing all page management options to CUPS as IPP attributes (like it does with the PPD options). Then CUPS will do the right thing.
<seb128> pitti, the ps you get when printing from evince
<seb128> or the pdf when you print to a file
<pitti> seb128: well, but they are; either the generated PDF immediately crashes gs, or it puts it into an eternal loop
<pitti> admittedly generated ps was often buggy as well, but by far not as bad
<seb128> why don't we just roll back to what we had in jaunty?
<seb128> ie revert the commit I pointed
<seb128> then we can argue later about what is broken in the evince pdf
<pitti> seb128: no objection
<seb128> but ideally somebody a clue about pdfs should take that to upstream cairo guys
<seb128> +with
<seb128> since it's cairo which is used to generate those I think
<pitti> oh, I see; I thought standard gtkprint would do that as well?
<pitti> frankly I didn't really try to print from other apps
<tkamppeter> I have copied my last comment of bug 419143 to bug 443026 as it applies there, too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 419143 in evince "Printing from evince (and perhaps other GTK apps) to PostScript printers is broken" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/419143
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443026 in evince "Printing produces broken PDF" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443026
<tkamppeter> pitti, seb128: ^^, but in general, I would also agree with PS output as workaround for the time being until the PDF output gets fixed. But only for the Ubuntu package.
<seb128> pitti, it should yes
<seb128> pitti, do we have a good summary of the issue we have right now that I could use to ping upstream about the bug?
<tkamppeter> pitti, you could try to print from the GIMP (standard dialog) and see whether you get a blank page ...
<pitti> seb128: bug
<pitti> ooops
<pitti> seb128: bug 443026 has a reproducing document and explanation
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443026 in evince "Printing produces broken PDF" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443026
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<tkamppeter> Or anyone could try to print from Abiword? Or does this one not use GTK Print?
<seb128> printing a pdf to a pdf file in current karmic works fine there
<seb128> ie printing from evince to a pdf works
<tkamppeter> seb128: You mean that if you do "Print to PDF" in evince and then lpr the PDF to CUPS all works perfectly?
<seb128> no, I've no printer
<seb128> I just to "print to pdf" and open the pdf with evince
<seb128> pitti said that you don't need a real printer to test before I think
<pitti> seb128: gs output.pdf -> boom
<tkamppeter> seb128: Then Poppler renders the PDF. Try "gs <file.pdf>" with the PDF from evince.
<seb128> works fin,e
<seb128> works fine
<pitti> seb128: I updated the summary to give the reproducing steps without a printer
<seb128> pitti, that works fine on a pdf I just tried there
<seb128> let me try an another one
<pitti> seb128: it seems to work for text-only PDFs
<pitti> but for anythign moderately complex with some graphics, it just crashes, or doesn't print the graphics
<seb128> I would argue it's a gs bug since evince open those pdf correctly
<seb128> but probably not one we will track before karmic
<seb128> let's switch back to what we used in jaunty
<pitti> so, I don't know how widespread the problem actually is
<pitti> it just happens for 3/4 of the uni scripts my wife tried to print
<pitti> but they could all be generated from a particular PDF generator
<pitti> ah, that was word -> Adobe distiller
<tkamppeter> seb128, it is not a gs bug, I have two native PDF printers which do not print output.pdf. See bug 443026, comment #4.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443026 in evince "Printing produces broken PDF" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443026
<seb128> tkamppeter, are you able to tell us what in the pdf make those chock?
<tkamppeter> seb128, for bug 443026 not, but for bug 419143 it is an embedded font.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443026 in evince "Printing produces broken PDF" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443026
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 419143 in evince "Printing from evince (and perhaps other GTK apps) to PostScript printers is broken" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/419143
<pitti> seb128: wrt. music players, are you okay with me adding a hackish patch to gvfs for now which adds the music-player mime type for devices which have the music-player icon?
<pitti> seb128: I'm discussing the proper solution with David, and outlined it in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24500, but it's pretty intrusive, and might not make karmic
<seb128> pitti, yes, did you get comments from davidz on the upstream bug?
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 24500 in detection "need property for music players" [Normal,New]
<pitti> seb128: not yet
<pitti> seb128: but the effect would be the same; ID_MEDIA_PLAYER determines the icon, and that determines the mime type
<pitti> it's just a code-wise hack, behaviour should be fine
<seb128> pitti, works for me
<pitti> okay, doing that then
<tkamppeter> pitti, have you seen that I have committed a small change to CUPS? This also needs to go into Karmic.
<pitti> tkamppeter: yep, saw it; will upload it in time
<tkamppeter> Thanks.
<pitti> tkamppeter: probably tomorrow morning, just in case another patch turns up still :)
<pitti> tkamppeter: argh, it still FTBFSes on mips/mipsel, so I'll need to hit it harder
<tkamppeter> pitti, there is also a problem with armel, bug 447919.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447919 in cups "cups-1.4.1-4 ftbfs on armel (and sparc)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447919
<Zdra> Hello ubuntu guys. Is "Rick Spencer" here?
<pitti> Zdra: not right now (US timezone), but in general yes
<tkamppeter> pitti, it failes the tests and therefore does not complete the build.
<pitti> tkamppeter: oh, that's what I pinged you about yesterday; it fails on all arches
<pitti> tkamppeter: it's a regression from your hostname change apparently
<Zdra> pitti, cool what's his nick? :)
<seb128> Zdra, rickspencer3
<Zdra> hehe :)
<Zdra> fine
<Zdra> I'm waiting for him
<seb128> anything you need?
<seb128> you can perhaps get a reply from somebody else too
<Zdra> seb128, rant against WONTFIX for 435329
<seb128> bug #435329
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435329 in empathy "Empathy is unusable if indicator applet is not on the panel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435329
<pitti> tkamppeter: do you have a minute to take a look at this?
<seb128> we discussed it on this channel yesterday
<tkamppeter> pitti, then it is strange why it is only reportde for arm,el and I also have the feeling that doko reported the bug before I did the hostname change.
<seb128> launchpad sucks sometime and wontfix is the wrong change
<tkamppeter> pitti, yes
<Zdra> seb128, ah, didn't see the discussion
<pitti> tkamppeter: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33580906/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.cups_1.4.1-5_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is the same
<Zdra> seb128, what's the conclusion?
<seb128> Zdra, we said that it's not a karmic blocker because it's easy to workaround (ie it's a preference option)
<seb128> Zdra, but it will be nice to get fixed in a sru after karmic
<pitti> well, it's still "ok" to fix in karmic
<pitti> but it won't block the release
<seb128> Zdra, I think the wontfix was rick trying to say it's not a blocker for karmic now, we have higher issue, ie crashers
<pitti> perhaps high->medium would be more claer
<tkamppeter> pitti, it seems that one of the tests does a host name lookup not using CUPS and checks whether CUPS finds the same name or so. This test needs to be changed to accept also the IP.
<Zdra> seb128, I can understand you (as in all ubuntu devs) don't have time for that... but the only sane solution is to drop that patch NOW !
<seb128> pitti, it's medium
<Zdra> seb128, you cant still add the patch later when it get fixed
<seb128> Zdra, it would help if your comment were constructive on bugs too
<Zdra> it is constructive
<seb128> Zdra, "ubuntu specific patch makes empathy crash at startup for all non-GNOME users" could you give details?
<seb128> the bug is not about a crash
<Zdra> you have 2 possibilities, make your choice
<tkamppeter> pitti, we cannot require from all our users to have working DNS. In many small networks they rely on automatic network configuration by the router and not all routers set up valid host names for all machines automatically.
<seb128> it's about having to manual change a preference when dropping the indicator applet
<pitti> tkamppeter: right, understood; I think it just needs a test fixed
<seb128> which is installed by default
<Zdra> seb128, which preference?
<Zdra> seb128, so you force adding that applet?
<seb128> Zdra, I'm not sure to understand your issue
<Zdra> seb128, don't have KDE here, but users reported that empathy just segfault at startup there
<seb128> by default we use the indicator message applet on ubuntu and no notification area icon
<seb128> Zdra, that's a different bug that the one you comment on and the sort of issue we want to fix for karmic
<Zdra> seb128, if there are no indicator applet, you don't get upstream's status icon
<Zdra> seb128, which make empathy hidden with now way to use it
<Zdra> seb128, and on KDE users reported that empathy just crash
<seb128> Zdra, you need to go to the preference and uncheck "use message indicator"
<Zdra> seb128, please tell me how I go there if empathy can't be seen?
<seb128> Zdra, you can open it again from the menu to display the buddy list
<seb128> well for sure the buddy list should be displayed when you run empathy?
<seb128> the issue is only when closing the list
<Zdra> seb128, it is not if you last closed empathy with it hidden in status icon
<seb128> you can get it back by running empathy from the menu again
<seb128> ok, that is an issue
<seb128> and the crash is one too
<seb128> that's what I meant by being constructive
<seb128> those are good point and that makes sense now
<seb128> you could mention that on the bug rather than just "ranting"
<seb128> the crash on start should be fixed
<seb128> and the fact that the buddy list will not be displayed on start if it was close with it in the notify is an issue too
<seb128> those should be address for karmic yes
<seb128> do you have any bug number for the crash issue?
<seb128> I will talk to rick and kenvandine about the other issue
<Zdra> seb128, I'm searching for the crash but I can't find... let me ask the guy who reported that to me
<seb128> Zdra, thanks, when you close a crash a NOTGNOME can you also mention on the channel so we know about it if the submitter doesn't file it on launchpad too
<chrisccoulson2> seb128 - do you think bug 451081 is a GTK issue?
<ubottu> Bug 451081 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/451081 is private
<seb128> Zdra, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/435216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435216 in empathy "empathy crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [Medium,Fix released]
<seb128> Zdra, did it look similar to that one?
<Zdra> seb128, but still, the use experience without the indicator applet is terrible... that option is hard to discover it it result to bug reports against upstream. That make me sad that ubuntu include half-finished patch like that in empathy package.
<TheMuso> Is there going to be a cups upload any time soon?
 * TheMuso was going to see about fixing the cups powerpc FTBFS if not
<seb128> TheMuso, tomorrow
<seb128> TheMuso, there is a pending change and pitti said he's letting time in case other will come today
<pitti> TheMuso: it's failing across all arches
<seb128> Zdra, you are a bit harsh with your comment, what issue do you have with the change out of the case where people want to remove in the indicator applet?
<pitti> TheMuso: tkamppeter is looking into it
<TheMuso> pitti: Oh ok thanks.
 * TheMuso is doing final powerpc gardening before the freeze.
<Zdra> seb128, you don't have status icon by default when you remove the indicator applet. You have to find that checkbox in empathy preferences
<seb128> Zdra, ok, that's one bug when you don't use the standard ubuntu config, out of that?
<Zdra> well, I guess it's fine if you use standard ubuntu config
<Zdra> but I think it will be common to not use it
<Zdra> we even got bug reports of ubuntu users having that indicator applet that didn't understand that the "email" icon is related to empathy
<seb128> well that's not really a bug or something that will change
<seb128> I agree that the indicator message is suboptimal but it's a distro design choice
<seb128> that will not change
<Zdra> also, if you close empathy's main window, it make a minimize animation to the notification area instead of the indicator applet
<seb128> I also agree we should fix the case where this is no indicator applet
<seb128> other concern out of that fallback case?
<Zdra> I should probably run a bit ubuntu's version of empathy to test more. I'm running upstream version most of the time
<seb128> there is no real difference out of the indicator message use
<seb128> chrisccoulson: no sure, I've never known how to read such crashes
<seb128> chrisccoulson: it seems the sort of call that should not fail, not sure in which case that can happen or if there is a corruption, or if that's on session close and the display is closing
<seb128> chrisccoulson: what do you think?
<seb128> chrisccoulson2, ^
<pitti> seb128: meh, gvfs hates me
<chrisccoulson2> seb128 - i'm not too sure really. i can't see what g-s-d could do to make it crash (other than some other memory error)
<chrisccoulson2> i suppose i could ask for a valgrind log just in case
<pitti> wow, we have two chrisccoulsons now?
 * MenZa hides.
<chrisccoulson2> heh, its because my 3G connection keeps cutting me off ;)
<pitti> seb128: so, I now get a correct mime type (x_content_types: x-content/image-dcf x-content/audio-player) and it's working fine again for opening RB, and displaying the player in RB again
<pitti> seb128: but when I plug it in, instead of getting one window with RB/F-Spot default, I get two windows with one each
<pitti> s/default//
<seb128> pitti, that was not the case in jaunty?
<pitti> seb128: I don't know
<pitti> but I've never seen two windows
<seb128> did you ever try your g1 there?
<seb128> I don't have any device being a camera and a player there
<pitti> seb128: I'll boot jaunty live and test there
<pitti> bbl
<pitti> seb128: you were right, same problem in jaunty; I just didn't see it because the G1 wasn't in hal-info as a music player yet; adding it causes the exact same effect
<pitti> seb128: so, it's a wart, but much better to have music players working IMHO
<pitti> and it's not a regression
<seb128> pitti, ok what I though
<seb128> thanks for confirming
<pitti> seb128: uploaded; I hope I didn't break anything else _this_ time :)
<chrisccoulson1> seb128 - do you have any opinion on bug 443312? I don't really have much time to work on it before final freeze, and I'm not sure whether we want all the changes there anyway
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 443312 in system-tools-backends "Package 2.8.2" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443312
<seb128> chrisccoulson1, it's a GNOME component so doing the update is ok
<chrisccoulson1> seb128 - ok. i'll try and do it if i get time
 * chrisccoulson1 wishes his connection would stop dropping today
<chrisccoulson1> pitti - have you found a reliable way to tether your G1 so you can use it's 3G connection from your computer?
<pitti> chrisccoulson1: unfortunately not; I tried to root the device months ago, but it didn't work with the SD card that I have (I couldn't turn it into a gold card)
<pitti> chrisccoulson1: now I have a different SD card, but I didn't try again
<chrisccoulson1> yeah, it seems like there aren't many good solutions for tethering:(
<pitti> chrisccoulson1: however, there's a tool called "proxoid" which is said to work on a non-rooted devices
<pitti> I didn't try it yet, though
<chrisccoulson1> i've not tried that either
<chrisccoulson1> i'll have a look for it;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson1: http://code.google.com/p/proxoid/
<pitti> chrisccoulson1: it's not real tethering, of course, just a http proxy AFAIUI
<pitti> so no SSH love
<chrisccoulson1> that's probably adequate though, i'll give it a try
<chrisccoulson1> thanks!
<pitti> chrisccoulson1: http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/08/22/android-emancipation/ might be worth a try, too
<seb128> pitti, tkamppeter: could you try if sending http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gtkprint.pdf to your printer works?
<seb128> pitti, tkamppeter: it's the bug example printed to a pdf with cairo git
<seb128> upstream says
<seb128> <adrianj> seb128: Comment 4 and the gs crash may not be related. Cairo 1.8.8 had an efficient way of embedding images which may cause slow printing and running out of memory. This has been fixed in git.
<seb128>  seb128: But if gs crashes on input that works with acroread, that is a gs bug. Usually the gs guys will fix those bugs if you file a report.
<seb128> the pdf is a print to file one there
<seb128> so just lpr it or whatever you do to send to the printer
<chrisccoulson1> pitti - thanks, i'll take a look at that too
<pitti> seb128: if you run it through gs, it doesn't show the image
<pitti> (and has an empty first page, too)
<seb128> pitti, upstream says those could be gs bugs
<pitti> seb128: that's precisely the bug I got when printing the original PDF through evince
<pitti> seb128: yes, entirely possible
<pitti> I just don't have a native PS printer to try
<seb128> is gs used by cups to print those?
<seb128> or can you just send the pdf to the printer?
<pitti> yes, in the filter chain
<pitti> I don't know whether there are native PDF printers nowadays, but if so, they are rare; tkamppeter?
<seb128> pitti, <adrianj> seb128: gtkprint.pdf works in acroread but crashes gs means it is a gs bug
<seb128> pitti, from #cairo
<pitti> okay
<tkamppeter> pitti, seb128: With gs the first page gets completely blank (but no crash). My first PDF printer has no output at all.
<seb128> what do you call pdf printer?
<seb128> you have a printer which take pdf in input?
<seb128> ie no gs in the chain?
<seb128> <adrianj> seb128: I use acroread as the gold standard. It it works in acroread the pdf is fine.
<seb128> just for reference
<pitti> tkamppeter: and the second page misses the graphcis
<pitti> ok, so them it seems that it's a gs _and_ a PDF printer bug then :)
<seb128> I guess we are back to
<seb128> - the pdf is fine in acroread so upstream consider it valid
<seb128> - gs is buggy
<pitti> I'd think that acroread is pretty forgiving in its input
<seb128> - if pdf printers get confused upstream need details about what in the pdf confuse those
<tkamppeter> pitti, the second page had also graphics? Then it is really missing.
<pitti> tkamppeter: yes, see the original PDF
<tkamppeter> pitti, the second PDF printer takes some minutes and prints a page telling that it ran out of memory.
<seb128> pitti, it doesn't there
<seb128> pitti, opened Aufgabe.pdf it has no graphic on page 2 in evince
<seb128> <adrianj> I'ved looked in the pdf and it looks fine to me. I don't have access to any expensive pdf validation tools so the best I can do is test it with acroread.
<seb128> <adrianj> seb128: If it can be proven that cairo is doing something wrong I would be happy to fix it. But at this stage I can not see what the problem is.
<pitti> seb128: your gtkprint.pdf seems to reverse the order
<pitti> seb128: in gtkprint.pdf  the graphics should be on page 2, in the original file it's on page 1
<seb128> pitti, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33023145/Aufgabe01.pdf has the same other
<tkamppeter> pitti, seb128, FYI several newer laser printers do not only understand PostScript and PCL as input but also PDF. I have two of these printers. PDF which is not broken by evince prints just fine on them, by sending the raw files to the printers.
<seb128> order
<pitti> seb128: oops, yes, sorry; it's inverted in gs
<seb128> tkamppeter, claiming that the pdf are broken doesn't help there
<seb128> they are displayed fine in evince and acroread
<seb128> and upstream has been nice to look at those and don't see an issue
<seb128> and as said he doesn't have other verification tool
<seb128> so we will need details from you on how the pdf is broken
<tkamppeter> For me the first page in gs is blank and the second shows the header and the section "Empfohlener Loesungsweg:" with six numbered steps. Then free space on the lower half and "Seite 2 von 2" at the bottom.
<seb128> and evince and acroread display the pdf correctly
<seb128> which means it can be done
<seb128> and upstream says it's a gs issue
<pitti> so, apparently there's a gs bug here, since evince itself displays the PDF just fine
<seb128> right, what upstream says
<pitti> whether it's a violation of the PDF standard which acroread just tolerates, or a real bug in gs I can't say
<pitti> but at least gs could be made equally tolerant then
<seb128> me neither
<pitti> I guess it doesn't quite help us for karmic final, thoug
<seb128> but upstream is wanting to fix such issues if somebody know what they are
<seb128> they recommend using ps printing in evince for karmic too btw
<seb128> so we should do that step one
<seb128> I can do the change if you want
<tkamppeter> evince shows the first page with graphics for me and the second page without graphics, looking exactly like the gs output.
<seb128> tkamppeter, well, that's how http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33023145/Aufgabe01.pdf is yes
<seb128> gs displayed the first page blank there
<mac_v> pitti: hi... does apport use a fixed size 22px/24px icon for panel ? [like how messaging menu uses only 22px icon] or does it depend on the panel size?
<pitti> mac_v: apport only ships /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/apport.svg
<pitti> mac_v: oh, that icon; that's in update-notifier
<pitti> but I don't see an apport icon there either
<tkamppeter> pitti, seb128, my first PDF printer did not show any reaction.
<seb128> tkamppeter, did you send http://people.canonical.com/~seb128/gtkprint.pdf to it?
<mac_v> pitti: oh... the scalable icon is used everywhere... ah .. thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter, upstream said <adrianj> seb128: Comment 4 and the gs crash may not be related. Cairo 1.8.8 had an efficient way of embedding images which may cause slow printing and running out of memory. This has been fixed in git.
<seb128> tkamppeter, that pdf has been printed using cairo git
<pitti> mac_v: however, when a crash occurs now, it doesn't look like apport's original icon, but is a gray one from humanity
<tkamppeter> Yes, to both. One printer stays without reaction and the other says "out of memory" after some minutes.
<mac_v>  yeah...
<pitti> mvo: I can't seem to find which icon u-n sets into the panel tray for crashes
<seb128> ok, I don't know then
<pitti> mac_v: ^
<mac_v> pitti: oh... nevermind then.. i was just trying to make sure the apport icon in the app was color while the panel was greyscale... :)
<pitti> mac_v: it's not
<pitti> mac_v: sorry, it is
<seb128> pitti, it's "apport"
<seb128> /usr/share/icons/Humanity/apps/24/apport.svg
<seb128> /usr/share/icons/Humanity/apps/22/apport.svg
<mac_v> pitti: it is gonna be red soon :)
<pitti> src/update-notifier.c:   trayapplet_create(un->crashreport, "apport");
<pitti> aah
<pitti> mvo: unping
<hyperair> why does network-manager require a reboot?
<hyperair> can't it just be restarted?
<pitti> it can
<hyperair> oh right, it drops connections while restarting, doesn't it?
<seb128> MacSlow|lunch, is there any reason notify-osd doesn't take NULL as no icon?
<seb128> ie it has to be " "?
<mvo> asac: hi, a friend of mine just told me that NM for him asks for the password again every ~3-5 reconnects. I have seen similar things. do you happen to know what cuases this?
<mvo> asac: this is with a BCM4322 chipset - any hints or worarounds?
<Zdra> seb128, kenvandine: When I choose to not use the indicator in empathy preferences, the status icon appear. Clicking on it does not hide the window
<Zdra> that works with upstream version
<seb128> right, I noticed that too, I think kenvandine said he would look at it
<kenvandine> seb128, we changed the toggle behavior
<seb128> kenvandine, to what?
<kenvandine> clicking on it always raises instead of toggle
<kenvandine> design decision
<kenvandine> pidgin does that now too
<seb128> kenvandine, it should not when you don't use the indicator applet
<seb128> and it doesn't for pidgin, I would have noticed
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> that would be closely related to the work for displaying the icon if the indicator isn't present
<seb128> I hate this behaviour it made you go twice all over the desktop where you could double click
<kenvandine> which rick wasn't thinking we needed to do for karmic
<seb128> right
<seb128> but seems Zdra is quite unhappy
<kenvandine> i think i know how to do it now
<kenvandine> i noticed
 * kenvandine wishes the indicator stuff was better documented
<kenvandine> but either way, we need to split out and duplicate a bunch of code
<kenvandine> to have different behavior for the icon and indicator
<kenvandine> right now we rely on the status icon functions for the indicator
<seb128> kenvandine, I assigned you a crash which seems due to the indicator change btw
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> great
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> MacSlow, hello?
<MacSlow> seb128, greetings
<seb128> MacSlow, have you seen my question during lunch?
<seb128> MacSlow, let me ask again, why does notify-osd require to have " " as icon and NULL is not working?
<MacSlow> seb128, oh that one... due to the way notify-osd needs to distinguish between different layouts (and be able to differentiate between update- and append-cases) ... also answered it the comment to  451086 earlier this day
<MacSlow> seb128, NULL well cause it to reuse what's perhaps already there
<seb128> MacSlow, is that documented in the spec? the libnotify api doesn't give any description on that
<seb128> MacSlow, what will notification-daemon do with " " icons? what about kde?
<MacSlow> seb128, that's a behaviour we need in notify-osd due to the interaction-design of it.
<seb128> MacSlow, I don't want to make rhythmbox break with other notification daemons just to work with notify-osd
<MacSlow> seb128, rb can check the notification-daemon name. I've examples for that in the dev-guideline and in notify-osd trunk
<seb128> ok, not for karmic then
<MacSlow> ?
<seb128> I've other bugs to work on that to change rhythmbox to make it work better with notify-osd
<seb128> but thanks
<seb128> you could just have let us known earlier what was required there
<MacSlow> I've never implied to having you work on that
<seb128> right, I'm just saying that it will stay broken for karmic
<MacSlow> seb128, afaik it worked in jaunty
<seb128> I doubt it
<seb128> I doubt anybody made icons be " " upstream since that's a notify-osd specific thing
<MacSlow> seb128, or at least it did not surface during jaunty... the dev-guidelines are in place since jaunty
<seb128> usually when you want to icon you use NULL for the icon option
<MacSlow> sure... that's why I wrote the dev-guildelines
<seb128> to -> no
<seb128> we have an issue there but that can wait uds to be discussed
<seb128> you will never get upstream to do notify-osd specific hacks this way
<seb128> or expecting them to go and read your guidelines is not realistic
<seb128> the behaviour should be in the spec
<seb128> and works in a consistent way
<seb128> we have plenty of applications using NULL as no icon, if notify-osd doesn't handle that it's an notify-osd compatibility breakage
<seb128> re
<agateau> MacSlow: why can't notify-osd handle NULL for icon parameter?
<seb128> agateau, apparently NULL means "use the same icon than the previous bubble" there
<agateau> omg
<seb128> agateau, which is a semantic change
<seb128> it's just broken
<agateau> doing the opposite would have been less of a breakage
<MacSlow> agateau, we want to be able to update, append and repalce.
<agateau> but still, what's the use case for this?
<agateau> ok
<agateau> but why not say "-" means "use the same icon"
<agateau> and keep NULL signification unchanged
<chrisccoulson> oops, bug clash
<agateau> MacSlow: ^
<MacSlow> agateau, could work... need to test it, but not right now... as I still have the plate full
<asac> mvo: bcm is driver issue :/
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have checked the CUPS FTBFS and it is not possible that my patch breaks the test which fails.
<dobey> mac_v: hey
<tkamppeter> pitti, the failing test is an API test for HTTP functions in the CUPS library and my patch only affects the CUPS daemon.
<lool> kwwii: I see your new branch now has 4 revisions, but still without the previous history
<lool> kwwii: Do you need help?
<dobey> mvo: i take it the software-store emblem is not used on .deb files that might be present on the filesystem?
<mac_v> dobey: hey , i'v redone the U1 icons and made them look more like a cloud , than just a plain fill as was earlier, they should be the same size as the rest of the icons too , will be updated in the next humanity update
<kwwii> lool: if you know how to make it work, yes please...I did everything you said last night, I promise :)
<kwwii> lool: I did a proper branch, and pushed it to the new location, maybe I needed to start with a new project or such?
<dobey> mac_v: ah ok
<dobey> mac_v: eep!
<dobey> mac_v: the offline and error icons look too similar
<mac_v> dobey: better ? ;)
<dobey> mac_v: most notably, they both use !, which generally means "i need your attention"
<mac_v> dobey: hmm, the empty cloud and the chasing arrows are different ... the "!" was because i was trying not to use "x".. or should we just leave it empty?
<mvo> dobey: no, only inside software-center. the bug that its leaking into nautilus is fixed
<mvo> dobey: with todays upload
<dobey> mac_v: what does the offline icon for nm-applet use in humanity?
<lool> kwwii: lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release is still broken at least
<dobey> mvo: right, i was just making sure. because "other apps emblems showing up in nautilus" isn't really a bug in those apps
<lool> kwwii: If you add me to the team I can delete the branch and start afresh
<lool> kwwii: Did you start queuing changes in that branch?
<mac_v> dobey: just small dashes[missing towers] like the cellphones
<mac_v> oops missing bars*
<kwwii> lool: yes, we just did the first merge
<kwwii> lool: you are now on the team
<mvo> dobey: what is the bug then? that nautilus shows them in its view? or is there just no bug?
<dobey> mac_v: mine actually shows an X on top of empty bars
<Amaranth> mvo: compiz 0.8.4 is out :)
<dobey> mvo: it's a bit more grandiose than that
<mac_v> dobey: this is the icon > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-no-connection.svg
<mvo> weeehhh!
<Amaranth> working on updating the packaging now
<mvo> nice
<kwwii> lool: I guess I needed to erase the branch completely, also on lp to remove the .bzr dir or such
<mvo> thanks Amaranth
<Amaranth> another 17 bugs fixed :)
<dobey> mvo: i don't think any nautilus hackers will be at UDS, but maybe we can push for the proper fix upstream for 2.30
<mvo> ok
<dobey> mvo: the real issue is that there is no separation between "emblems" and "tags" (the latter of course being what users actually want)
<dobey> and emblems being programmatically assigned
<dobey> mvo: http://wayofthemonkey.com/?date=2008-06-11 <- i blogged about it a bit last year :)
<mvo> dobey: thanks, that makes sense. for software-center I now solved it by just moving it into a private dir, but having it fixed upstream sounds (much) better
<Amaranth> That reminds me, everything on my other computer suddenly gained an emblem for ubuntuone :/
<dobey> mvo: yeah. it's complicated, but shouldn't be too hard
<dobey> Amaranth: upgrade
<dobey> Amaranth: i fixed that yesterday
<Amaranth> alright, cool
 * Laney looks forward to an osx client for u1
<mac_v> Amaranth: for a min i thought U1 had increased the limit for free users too and sycned my / and /home too ;p
<mvo> hey glatzor
<glatzor> hey mvo!
<lool> kwwii: You can do that on LP
<lool> kwwii: Why are you closing the same bugs in a new rev??
<lool> kwwii: e.g. I already closed this in last upload:
<lool>   * Different icons for volume mute and volume-0  , LP: #444548
<kwwii> lool: sorry, I didn't see that it was already in the changelog
<lool> kwwii: Plus why is it one giant commit for all of the changes?
<kwwii> lool: because doing them seperately would be silly (and a waste of time)
<lool> 8 changes in a single commit; it's going to be unreviewable again and it seems like this is getting a lot of updates again
<kwwii> lool: if I go through the changes with mac_v and Dan then it shouldn't be a problem
<lool> kwwii: So the change touches 50 files
<kwwii> lool: this is the first time, so it is a bit larger than normal
<seb128> kenvandine, could you look if http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33241688/Stacktrace.txt is the crash you fixed recently?
<kwwii> but everytime we change one icon that will touch several files
<seb128> kenvandine, I've assigned you some bugs which looked similar please close them if that matches the bug you fixed with indicator messages being wrongly listed
<lool> kwwii: Changing multiple files for one change is fine, changing 50+ files in a single commit which changes 8 different things less so
<kwwii> lool: in the future, it won't be so long
<kwwii> lool: I understand your point but we had to start somewhere
<lool> kwwii: What about committing each fix individually so that each change can be reviewed?
<mac_v> lool:   * Different icons for volume mute and volume-0  , LP: #444548 , was wrongly done... the wrong icon was replaced and the same icon was used for both mute and 0
<mac_v> kwwii: ^
<kwwii> mac_v: thanks for that info ;)
<lool> mac_v: Ok; why is the bug closed then?  Or should that be a new bug instead?
<kwwii> lool: reviewed by who? the last review it needs (other than technical stuff) is from the design team
<lool> There's no comment explaining that in the bug either
<mac_v> lool: i noticed it only now i didnt realize it earlier :)
<lool> kwwii: How do you expect to review the "technical stuff" before upload?
<mac_v> now , as in , while checking kwwii's branch
<kwwii> lool: by testing the package
<lool> Right so I'll have to look at 50+ files if I want to test them all
<kwwii> ie, building it, putting in a ppa and having people use it
<kwwii> lool: I went through the file names and looked at the icons, they all seemed good and the bugs were understandable...after that we get it tested by installing it and simply looking at the icons
<kenvandine> seb128, ok, thanks
<kwwii> lool: as I said, normally the update won't be so large
<lool> I keep hearing that for 3 weeks
<lool> Let me fix history and I'll let you drive this the way you like
<lool> I dont think I'm a good person to deal with this stuff
<mac_v> lool: the reason for th updates being larger than expected.. is mainly the icons were done to complete the human theme... but since *everyone*  , wants all the panel icons to be in greyscale... more icons had to be done... even those not existing in human.. hence the icons... but that isnt a good reason to be doing so many new icons.. just mentioning ;)
<lool> mac_v: the reason is doing large changes late in the cycle
<mac_v> lool: i agree ;)
<lool> My initial proposal was to revert back to human
<lool> I think I would have spent 30 minutes on that and instead we are all spending hours on it
<lool> If not days
<mvo> is it a known issue that eject (on the cdrom itself) is no longer working? I have to eject via nautilus now
<lool> kwwii: lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release now has history + I reapplied the changes from the last commit of your branch on top of it
<lool> kwwii: I pushed your branch as bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release.old as a backup in case I missed anything
<kwwii> lool: cool. thanks...on the phone atm, bbiab
<pitti> tkamppeter: right, it already failed on -4; so something else in the environment must have changed
<mac_v> seb128: did you get time to check the volume applet > Bug #444548
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444548 in humanity-icon-theme "Not having a muted icon for the volume applet causes confusion" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444548
<lool> kwwii: I asked pitti whether you could contact him on the theme stuff and he was nice enough to agree (thanks pitti!)
<seb128> mac_v, upstream bug
<mac_v> seb128: hmm, which package is it?
<seb128> mac_v, gnome-media
<mac_v> i'll add the also affects
<mac_v> thanks
<kwwii> lool: great, thanks
<walters_> is Josselin Mouette around here (and if not, anyone know where I could find him)?
<Laney> walters_: Np237 on #gnome-debian@GIMPnet
<walters_> Laney: thanks
<Laney> np
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have tried to simply redo the CUPS builds, but the build queue is very full and so it will take hours until the CUPS packages will get built.
<tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps you can prioritize them to get the result somewhat earlier.
<asac> seb128: so following up from yesterday. is it possible to put the gconf key for epiphany homepage in some other package like ubuntu-docs?
<pitti> tkamppeter: but why should it work now, when it failed the last two times?
<seb128> asac, ubuntu-artwork would be a good candidate
<tkamppeter> pitti, perhaps a server problem.
<asac> ok let me check that
<pitti> tkamppeter: I dont see a new upload on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+changelog
<tkamppeter> pitti, I simply clicked "Retry build" in the hope that it was a server problem, there is no new upload.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ah, I see
<tkamppeter> pitti, lpia completed now to build and it still fails on the HTTP API test: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/293211/
<tkamppeter> Now also sparc and powerpc failed.
<tkamppeter> pitti, all failed on httpAddrGetList(), the same way, as before.
<tkamppeter> pitti, now armel failed the same way.
<mvo> Amaranth: how is the compiz update going? anything to sposnor yet?
<mvo> I guess its a known issues that tomboy does not sync with ubuntuone?
<pitti> tedg: if you have a minute, I'd appreciate your comment to bug 444149; if it's too intrusive, we just skip it for karmic, but perhaps there's a simple solution
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444149 in indicator-applet "Session Indicator Still Appears in Stracciatella Session" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444149
<tedg> pitti: Does stracciatella use a different panel config?
<pitti> tedg: just like indicator-applet, it should also hide indicator-session (it's not yet part of GNOME)
<pitti> tedg: so I wondered whether you think it's easy to change the gnome-panel code which shows/hides the shutdown entries, or whether there's a better way of making the applet inert
<tedg> pitti: We could do the same check for the env variable there.
<tedg> pitti: The patch sets up a signal, but then just has a handler that listens for "FastUserSwitcherApplet" and hides them.
<tedg> pitti: So it could check for stracciatella as well.
<pitti> tedg: right
<pitti> tedg: i. e. it could just disable the dynamic detection entirely on stracciatella
<tedg> pitti: Oh, that's better.  Just don't even register the handler.
 * pitti looks at debian/patches/25_dynamic_fusa_detection.patch
 * tedg looks too, it's been a long time :)
<tedg> pitti: I think if you just remove the two g_signal_connect()s to the panel_applet_signaler you should be good.
<pitti> tedg: awesome, thank you
<tedg> pitti: Oh, wait.  There are more...
<tedg> There's a signal connect for each item.
<pitti> tedg: there are some bits in the patch which look a bit weird, like "if (separator_inserted) {..."
<tedg> It might be easier to modify the call back then.
<tedg> pitti: Yeah, look at the comment at the end "Okay, this is confusing" :)
<pitti> tedg: you mean +panel_menu_items_{hide,show}_on_fusa ?
<pitti> tedg: hehe
<tedg> pitti: Yeah, I'd just modify those.  Wastes some instructions, but is probably better.
<pitti> tedg: btw, since you accepted the stracciatella patch into upstream for indicator-applet, I guess you'd do the same for indicator-session-applet?
<pitti> tedg: *nod* shouldn't hurt much performance-wise (it's not a major thing anyway, but it'd be nice to keep stracciatella alive)
<tedg> pitti: Yeah, no issue there.
<tedg> pitti: I wasn't planning on doing another tarball release though.
<tedg> (for Karmic)
<pitti> tedg: no, don't worry; debian/patches FTW :)
<mac_v> mpt: any reason for the software store icon being so very pale in the smaller sizes? icon looks a bit sick ;)
 * mpt bangs head on desk
<mac_v> \o/
<mpt> mac_v, it was so the outlines would look sharper, so that it would look more obviously like a bag
<superm1> mvo, regarding update-manager 0.126.1, any particular reason why'd you change the order of the backend to prefer synaptic first?
<james_w> superm1: because aptdaemon isn't ready for primetime yet IIUC
<superm1> mvo, eg are there a bunch of deficiencies that occur in using aptdaemon?  i just moved mythbuntu-control-centre to use aptdaemon after seeing how well it worked with update-manager
<james_w> as it is update-manager, it's important to have it be quite reliable, and there have been quite a few problems reported with aptdaemon
<superm1> james_w, oh that's not what i want to hear... :)
<james_w> it's good that you have a positive impression though
<superm1> any particular things to watch out for that have been getting reported that maybe we should add to release notes for mythbuntu then?
<mvo> superm1: just caution, its still the default in software-center
<mvo> superm1: but updates are criticial and so I did not want to take any risks
<mac_v> mpt: but still the present color is a bit weird .... check the color of the "other" icon.. in the departments... that could be used...anyways just mentioning ..
<superm1> mvo, ah okay, that makes lots of sense then.  we can take the same approach with mcc, and if problems occur point people to synaptic
<mpt> mac_v, true, but too late for that now
<mvo> superm1: I have a good feeling about aptdaemon in general, no particular OMG moment or anything
<mac_v> :(
<mpt> superm1, what's mcc?
<superm1> mpt, mythbuntu-control-centre
<mpt> oh rly
<mpt> I haven't heard of that
<superm1> mpt, it's this little pluggable app that we ship in mythbuntu for easily changing impotant things on the system
<superm1> like adding/removing services, changing roles, changing themes, automatic login
<superm1> its like a one stop shop for media center configuration
 * mpt installs it to have a look :-)
<mpt> Sounds a bit like Ubuntu Tweak
<mpt> agh, debconf
<superm1> you might want to install it in a sandbox if you dont have a lot of media stuff on your comp
<superm1> because it will pull in stuff like lirc
<superm1> and mythtv-common and a bunch of other things
<superm1> best thing to do if you want to see it in action is really to grab a daily mythbuntu image from cdimages.ubuntu.com/mythbuntu and look at it in a VM
<pitti> tedg: works perfectly!
<pitti> tedg: thank you
<glatzor> hello superm1, do you access the dbus interface of aptdaemon directly or do you use the python client?
<superm1> glatzor, python client
<mpt> superm1, too late now. :-) I must resist commenting on the interface when I really should be going home, but one quick suggestion: Have you thought about putting the categories in a list on the left, instead of as buttons on the right?
<superm1> glatzor, via python-aptdaemon-gtk
<tedg> pitti: No problem!  Glad it works!
<superm1> mpt, we originally had it on the left and for no logical reason moved it to the right
<glatzor> superm1, if you have got any problems with the api feel free to fill a bug. currently the sync and async calls are mixed in the same module. I plan to provide a pure async client soon.
<superm1> glatzor, it appeared to work functionally well for what we needed, i'll keep that in mind though :)
<glatzor> see you!
 * pitti hands rickspencer3 some stracciatella ice cream
<rickspencer3> :)
<mpt> Hm, Karmic's dictionary doesn't know what a "netbook" is
<mpt> It also doesn't know what "doesn't" is
<mpt> or "Hm"
<mac_v> kwwii: has gpm been patched to use the right notification icons?
<mac_v> s/right/notify-osd
<seb128> mac_v, no
<seb128> mac_v, we agreed it's not a gpm bug no?
<seb128> mac_v, asac wrote a notify-osd patch for that
<mac_v> seb128: but who is going to fix it ;) .... i dont think macslow agreed it was his bug either :)
<seb128> nobody
<seb128> there is a patch waiting for review, if mirco refuses it talk to davidbarth
<mac_v> lol ... didnt know asac wrote a patch :)
<mac_v> seb128: could you give me the bug# for the patch?
<seb128> mac_v, lp:~asac/notify-osd/theme-icon-prefix
<seb128> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~asac/notify-osd/theme-icon-prefix/+merge/12731
<mac_v> awesome , thanks :)
<seb128> mac_v, you're welcome
<seb128> it seems mirco wants asac to confirm it's passing testsuite though
<seb128> it seems mirco wants asac to confirm it's passing testsuite though
<mac_v> seb128: hehe , i'v been trying to get Mirco to patch notify-osd to recognize the labels for a very long time... luckily he's not online else he'd probably kill me , for bringing this up again  ;p
<seb128> lol
<seb128> we could just be distro patching the change for karmic
 * mac_v beginning to love the word  "distro patching" :)
<tkamppeter> pitti, still around?
<pitti> hi tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have donme two fixes on the "usb" CUPS backend, especially I have fixed bug 450513.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450513 in cups "HP LaserJet 1000 still doesn't print" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450513
<tkamppeter> pitti: Now all USB issues should be fixed.
<pitti> nice
<pitti> so we just need to fix the FTBFS
<tkamppeter> pitti, that's it.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have already tried to run this test program (testhttp) on my own machine and it passes.
<tkamppeter> pitti, also in a local package build it passes for me.
<tedg> mac_v: seb128: MacSlow mentioned in today's status call that asac hasn't responded to pings about the patch... not sure what's up there, they need to talk.
<Amaranth> hrm
<Amaranth> dput just uploaded .debs
<tormod> pitti, it seems the live CD automounts all partitions, which can be bad
<tormod> pitti, my up-to-date install doesn't do it
<pitti> tormod: uh, it's not supposed to do that; last time it asked for auth
<tormod> pitti, it boots up to a desktop with everything mounted
<tormod> I am sitting on the live CD now, if you want to check anything
<pitti> tormod: I guess it's reproducible everywhere then
<pitti> tormod: can you please report it against gvfs and assign to me?
<tormod> I guess so, this is a normal disk with normal partitions
<tormod> okdok
<Amaranth> oh, I didn't build it right :P
 * Amaranth is a little rusty
<tormod> pitti, filed bug 451613 but apport did not attach much, so please tell what I can provide
<pitti> tormod: should be fine; mainly need it for tracking
<tormod> ok
<tormod> just asking since I am gonna reboot into the installed system again
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451613 in gvfs "all disks and partitions are automounted in the live session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451613
<tkamppeter> pitti, there was a server crash here on IRC, did you get my last messages?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I did, yes
<tkamppeter> pitti, about that the test which fails on the build server passes on my local box.
<seb128> tedg, right, though the ping was a bit ridiculous
<seb128> tedg, right, though the ping was a bit ridiculous
<seb128> tedg, right, though the ping was a bit ridiculous, it was "does it pass the testsuite", which mirco could run too
<seb128> tedg, sorry about the earlier enter hit ;-)
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, nice to see my bug fix
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i pushed the fix for displaying the icon... it is actually much better now than it was
<kenvandine> seb128, bug 435329
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435329 in empathy "Empathy is unusable if indicator applet is not on the panel" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435329
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, cool
<kenvandine> seb128, can you sponsor that
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm about to go to bed but I will do that tomorrow morning for sure yes
<seb128> 'night everybody
<kenvandine> ok
<chrisccoulson> bratsche - if an application calls gtk_alignment_set_padding() on something which is already drawn on the screen, do widgets get realigned straight away, or does that call register some events on the main loop which get dispatched later on?
<bratsche> chrisccoulson: It won't be visibly different until the mainloop runs.
<chrisccoulson> bratsche - thanks
<bratsche> Because all the affected widgets will have to respond to paint events and probably size allocation changes and stuff.
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i thought that might be the case
<asac> mac_v: tedg: i answered and think that patch needs to be done after karmic
<asac> we have to discuss exactly what we want etc.
<tedg> asac: Okay, cool.  Thanks!
<kwwii> tedg: do you know how far from the hotel the next mall is?
<asac> unless its really important. but it feels it would also trigger a general review of icon names etc.
<asac> so its out of scope imo
<kwwii> UDS/sprint I mean
<tedg> asac: I'm told that kwwii likes drawing icons.  That's no big deal.
<tedg> kwwii: Uhm, not sure exactly, but it can't be too far.  And I'll have a car...  I'm sure there's one on the light rail.
<asac> haha
<kwwii> tedg: so there is a way to get around from where we are! wow, that is new
<tedg> kwwii: I haven't looked at the final hotel, but the others had the light rail near them.
<kwwii> I wanted to find a teavana shop in texas to get this killer tea I bought last year in St. Louis but it seems they don't sell tea in texas
<kwwii> tedg: I thought about renting a car on the weekend anyway
<kwwii> thanks
<kwwii> I'll show up at your place, one way or the other
<tedg> kwwii: There's a TRE station near by.  Which isn't great.
<tedg> kwwii: Basically that's a "big train" so every half hour or so.
<kwwii> oh, and I might have an ex-girlfiend with me, if thath is ok
<kwwii> that
<tedg> kwwii: Sure, I don't think it'd be a big deal.  Are you not going to St. Louis?
<kwwii> tedg: lol, that is perfect...more than expected for a european traveller
<kwwii> tedg: nope, it is too expsensive.. I would rather save my miles for a trip home at christmas for the family
<tedg> kwwii: Ah, makes sense.  Plus it'll be cold in St. Louis :)
 * kwwii just booked all the flights, so far, for the rest of the year...it is something like my 23rd trip
<kwwii> tedg: what will the weather be? I assume that a light jacket will be enough?
<kwwii> 23rd trip this year
<kwwii> anyway..time for sleep...night all
<tedg> kwwii: Yeah, if it rains you might want something more for that.  But it should be nice.
<Amaranth> how do you upgrade launchpad branches to the latest pack format?
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-15
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Seems the accessibility live CD stuff is odd, it sometimes works, and sometimes doesn't Booted on a couple of machines, with varying results.
<rickspencer3> TheMuso, unfortunate
<rickspencer3> those can be the hardest to debug
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: I am going to see if I can make it more reliable, but not sure exactly how I might accomplish that at this point.
<TheMuso> rickspencer3: Hopefully the new gnome updates next week may help, but I really don't know.
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, kenvandine, TheMuso anybody available to quickly confirm a bug for me?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, sure
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, ok, basically, desktopcouch is completely crapping out on me
<kenvandine> :/
<rickspencer3> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/desktopcouch/+bug/451809
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451809 in desktopcouch "desktopcouch applications throw 401 error" [High,New]
<rickspencer3> so start a python session
<kenvandine> ok
<rickspencer3> >>> import desktopcouch.records
<rickspencer3> >>> desktopcouch.records.server.CouchDatabase("boo")
<rickspencer3> this throws a 401 for me
<rickspencer3> I'm on Version: 0.4.4-0ubuntu1
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, so you created "boo" before hand right?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, nope
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I get NoSuchDatabase exception
<rickspencer3> bit if you want, you can go CouchDatabase("boo", create=True) and that also blows up for me
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, so you are getting the correct exception
<robert_ancell> (I just installed desktopcouch then)
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, are you on the same version of desktopcouch?
<robert_ancell> yes
<rickspencer3> well, that's good, so you couldn't repro it
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell, do you have any data in your CouchDB?
<robert_ancell> no
<kenvandine> i get NoSuchDatabase too
<robert_ancell> fresh install
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, with create=True it worked for me
<kenvandine> with 0.4.4
<rickspencer3> well well well
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, robert_ancell would one you mind mentioning on the bug report that you couldn't confirm?
<kenvandine> sure
<rickspencer3> so I did something really weird tonight
<rickspencer3> I installed netbook-launcher
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, what version of couchdb-bin do you have?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i commented
<rickspencer3> Version: 0.10.0-0ubuntu1
<rickspencer3> and then I removed my Applications/Places/System Menu
<rickspencer3> and replaced it with a "show my desktop" panel icon
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I'll try removing and reinstalling dekstopcouch, maybe something got configured funny
<rickspencer3> how do you make gnome-do show up like a little dock at the bottom?
<rickspencer3> jono, ^
<kenvandine> go to the preferences
<rickspencer3> did that
<kenvandine> and change the interface to "Docky"
<rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
<kenvandine> np
<albasheers1> converting flv file to avi using ffmpeg gives this error "Cannot allocate temp picture, check pix fmt" can  anybody help
<didrocks> good morning
<mvo> hey didrocks
<didrocks> hi mvo
<didrocks> lut seb128
<seb128> good morning there
<mvo> good morning seb128
<seb128> hey didrocks mvo, how are you?
<didrocks> seb128: busy as the last two weeks, but fine, thanks :) You?
<seb128> busy and a bit tired but fine otherwise
<seb128> will be better after coffee
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> hehe :-)
 * mvo is already sipping some tea
<seb128> so pitti joined to club of those who work until unreasonable hours
<seb128> he did uploads at 1:30am this night
<slomo> mvo: ping? :)
<seb128> 1:45
<bryce_> hi tseliot
<tseliot> hey bryce_
<mvo> slomo: pong
<slomo> mvo: did you decide that gnome-codec-install 0.4.x is not going to be in karmic?
<mvo> slomo: I have it merged, I want to do a bug triage run (LP has quite a few) and see what other low hanging fruits there are that can be fixes
<mvo> slomo: sorry that I have not accted yet, its on my list for tihs week
<slomo> mvo: oh, i didn't notice there were LP bugs... thanks for looking through them :)
<mvo> I have not started that yet (I don't enjoy bug triage much), but I will (and send patches)
<mvo> or should I commit directly ?
<slomo> commit directly and feel free to upload it to unstable when you're done :)
<mvo> thanks
<seb128> slomo, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-codec-install/+bugs
<baptistemm> good morning
<seb128> slomo, I asked you the other day if you looked at those or wanted them forwarded somewhere
<seb128> slomo, but you probably didn't read the question
<seb128> lut baptistemm
<baptistemm> salut seb128
<slomo> seb128: debian bug tracker would be nice, yes... or telling me about them here :)
<seb128> slomo, you can https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-codec-install/+subscribe
<seb128> slomo, seeing the number of bugs that shouldn't be too much spamming
<seb128> slomo, but I can ping you when I notice annoying issues
<slomo> thanks
<slomo> :)
<seb128> ups
<seb128> archive is already frozen for karmic
<chrisccoulson> hello everyone
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> we're frozen already?
<chrisccoulson> (i was hoping it would be a bit later on) ;)
<seb128> yes
<seb128> same here
<jbicha> is it too late to get bug 451792 fixed?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451792 in example-content "Presenting_Kubuntu.odp has old KDE3 screenshots" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451792
<chrisccoulson> i attached a patch for bug 409621 last night, but that's not really release critical
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 409621 in libxklavier "The program 'gnome-settings-daemon' received an X Window System error. During on a FreeNX server suring a session." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/409621
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I will sponsor
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the second one fix the first one?
<chrisccoulson> i didn't get as much done last night as i'd hoped, with this screensaver issue thats appeared
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you could have made one patch with both changes ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i suppose so, but i did it as 2 as they are 2 separate upstream commits ;)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I tend to use 1 patch by logical changeset
<seb128> not by commit ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, that makes more sense
<seb128> brb
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you plan to make any gdm changes to fix the upgrade issue, or is there anything you want from me for that issue?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's on my list for this morning
<seb128> though I'm not sure why the chown is there to start
<chrisccoulson> no, i'm not too sure about that either
<seb128> I will use sudo dbus-launch || true for the gconf call
<seb128> but the .gvfs issue is due to
<seb128> if [ -d /var/lib/gdm ]; then
<seb128>   chown -R gdm:gdm /var/lib/gdm
<seb128>   chmod 0750 /var/lib/gdm
<seb128> which I'm not sure why it's there
<seb128> either it's required one at install
<seb128> or at every run
<seb128> it doesn't make sense to just do it on upgrades
<seb128> mvo, pitti, lool: ^ opinion?
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> sorry for being so late
<pitti> *brrrr* it's snowing already
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> it was freezing there too
<chrisccoulson> really? i wouldn't mind some snow:)
<chrisccoulson> all we get is grey clouds and drizzle...
<seb128> right, no snow there either
<pitti> seb128: hours> well, wanted to get a reasonably clean slate before the freeze :)
<pitti> (but yes, I slept pretty badly)
<seb128> I should have done that
<seb128> slangasek frozen this morning already, grrrr
<seb128> -n
<pitti> seb128: eww, sudo dbus-launch gconf-tool?
<seb128> I was expecting being able to push pending this this morning
<seb128> pitti, you are the one who recommended no using su but sudo?
<pitti> seb128: you can still; frozen != "don't change anything any more"
<seb128> pitti, why eww now?
<pitti> seb128: right, but launching dbus?
<seb128> pitti, gconftool needs a dbus session to talk to the gconf server
<seb128> it leads to many installation failure now
<seb128> because it doesn't find it
<pitti> I thought we could use --direct if gconfd wasn't running already?
<pitti> it just doesn't seem to be a step which improves robustness to me
<seb128> "if gconfd wasn't running already"
<seb128> but it is if you have a gdm greater running...
<seb128> pitti, I'm open to better suggestions
<seb128> see bug #441028
<pitti> seb128: oh, you are saying that if it's running you need dbus, because in the sudo session you don't get the already running dbus address?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441028 in gdm "timeout error on the gconftool installation calls (dbus gconf issue)?" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/441028
<pitti> seb128: so we can't just ship a .gtkrc or ~/.gconf tree then, I suppose
<pitti> seb128: ok, so obviously the two of you discussed that already, if that's considered robust, then go ahead
<seb128> it's not considered robust
<pitti> I just wonder what happens if you then get two session dbuses, or launching one fails, etc.
<seb128> > <pitti> seb128: oh, you are saying that if it's running you need dbus, because in the sudo session you don't get the already running dbus address?
<seb128> not sure, it fails to contact the gconf server right now
<seb128> but it could be that the su call doesn't get the right environment variables
<seb128> I didn't investigate
<seb128> the dbus-launch way seemed cheap and easy
<seb128> pitti, .gconf, not really, if there is a running instance it could lead to write races between the running gconf and the manual change
<seb128> pitti, .gtkrc I didn't try but it would work for some of the keys anyway
<seb128> and I'm not sure if would win over g-s-d keys
<seb128> ie which settings would be used
<pitti> ok
<pitti> well, if it works, go ahead
<seb128> I don't manage to get it work due to your <<EOF hack
<seb128> still fighting that
<seb128> seems to not be working with sudo -u gdm
<seb128> my bash foo is not good
<seb128> $     sudo -u gdm <<EOF
<seb128> > dbus-launch gconftool --set /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename --type string /usr/share/images/xsplash/bg_2560x1600.jpg || true
<seb128> > EOF
<seb128> usage: sudo [-n] -h | -K | -k | -L | -V | -v
<seb128> gnagnagna
<pitti> $ sudo -u postgres -s <<EOF
<pitti> > whoami
<pitti> > EOF
<pitti> postgres
<seb128> oh, "-s"
<pitti> seb128: add an "-s"
<pitti> that shouldn't start PAM (I think -i might)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> pitti, btw any opinion about the chown call?
<pitti> seb128: how is it related to .gvfs ?
<seb128> pitti, .gvfs is a fuse mount and the chown breaks
<seb128> bug #438561
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438561 in gdm "gdm installation breaks due to gvfs fuse mount for the gdm user" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438561
<seb128> pitti, the fuse mount is only accessible to the user
<seb128> "chown: cannot access '/var/lib/gdm/.gvfs': Permission denied"
<seb128> that's a design decision for fuse I think
<pitti> oh, "chown -R", WTH
<pitti> that seems weird to me
<pitti> shouldn't it rather do something like
<pitti> if ! [ -d /var/lib/gdm ]
<pitti> and mkdir/chown (no -R) it then?
<seb128> I'm not sure what was the intend
<seb128> as said before
<seb128> " either it's required one at install
<seb128>  or at every run
<seb128>  it doesn't make sense to just do it on upgrades"
<pitti> we don't chown /home/* in case the user's uid changes either..
<pitti> seb128: my gut feeling is that this should just be ripped out
<pitti> seb128: at least the -R
<pitti> at initial install the dir does need to get chowned to gdm
<pitti> seb128: ooh, hang on
<pitti> $ dpkg -L gdm|grep var/lib
<pitti> /var/lib
<pitti> /var/lib/gdm
<pitti> /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path
<pitti> /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.mandatory
<pitti> /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.mandatory/%gconf-tree.xml
<pitti> that's probably it
<seb128> no
<seb128> that call was there before having gdm using gconf
<pitti> I mean, they intended to own those files to gdm
<pitti> so what about
<pitti> chown gdm:gdm /var/lib/gdm
<pitti> chown -R gdm:gdm /var/lib/gdm/.gconf*
<pitti> ?
<seb128> I'm wondering why those gconf file are shipped in the binary
<pitti> seb128: and I'm wondering whether we cuold ust change /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.mandatory/%gconf-tree.xml to have our theme keys, and drop all the su/dbus-launch stuff
<seb128> pitti, that would remove the possibility for users to change those settings
<pitti> seb128: well, right now we gconfify it on every installation anyway
<seb128> right
<seb128> but users can do a sudo -u gdm gconftool call to change it
<seb128> see /etc/gconf/2/path
<pitti> I agree that we need a better solution for themeability eventually, but we don't have  it either way right now
<seb128> .gconf.mandatory is used before .gconf
<seb128> which means values set with gconftool would not be used
<pitti> I see
<seb128> the mandatory is meant as a sysadmin way to impose things you can't change
<pitti> seb128: at this point, I'd rather have ***buntu-default-settings divert the file, though
<pitti> I really don't feel comfortable about all this sudo dbus-launch gconftool stuff, sooner or later it will blow upp
<seb128> that's why I added || true
<albasheers> mplayer is not able flv
<seb128> if it blow up you will just not get the theme set
<seb128> albasheers, try #ubuntu for user questions
<albasheers> ok
<pitti> seb128: ok, another question
<seb128> why is it so difficult to see some gconf keys
<pitti> seb128: if we ship /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.defaulttheme with those keys
<pitti> seb128: and add that path to /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path early
<pitti> so that people can override it?
<seb128> hum
<seb128> # default path for sabayon
<seb128> include "$(HOME)/.gconf.path.defaults"
<seb128> we can abuse this one?
<seb128> /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path.defaults
<seb128> I would like to avoid adding yet another item to the lookup list
<seb128> it cost for every gconf lookup for every user
<pitti> but it'd just be locally for gdm, no?
<seb128> /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path.defaults
<seb128> yes
<pitti> what's the difference to /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path ?
<seb128> see /etc/gconf/2/path
<seb128> .gconf.path is used before .gconf
<seb128> and .gconf is where user change go
<seb128> I'm not sure why .gconf.path is there
<seb128> I'm not sure why .gconf.path is there but it will be used before user changes
<seb128> ie break the possibility to use gconftool to do your own changes
<seb128> ok
<seb128> pitti, let me play with a /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path.defaults static %gconf
<lool> seb128: I dont see why chown would be required at every run?  If the goal is to fix permissions from previous versions of the package, then running this on upgrade seems ok
<pitti> seb128: oh, it's "first match wins", not "later matches can override"?
<lool> seb128: I dont know what the intent is either, sorry
<seb128> pitti, right
<seb128> lool, that's ok, thanks
<pitti> seb128: ok, then can we just add it to /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path as last item then?
<seb128> pitti, you mean?
<pitti> seb128: so that users can overwrite it?
<pitti> if the last one has the lowest priority
<seb128> pitti, I didn't get what you mean by as last item there
<seb128> as said
<seb128>  pitti, let me play with a /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path.defaults static %gconf
<pitti> seb128: ok, nevermind
<pitti> seb128: you said that the first match in the search list will win
<seb128> ie ship /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path.defaults with some xml to set those values
<pitti> seb128: then I don't understand why having xml:readonly:$(HOME)/.gconf.mandatory is the last one in /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path
<pitti> seb128: ok, so it's that (so that gconftool will still work), and then drop all teh gconftool stuff from postinst, and finally fix the chown calls
<pitti> then it should be robust and working and customizable?
<seb128> DOH
<seb128> pitti, I didn't know about /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path
<seb128> sorry about that
<seb128> I was looking at the system default path
<seb128> not at the custom gdm one
<seb128> I'm confused now
<seb128> pitti, I read what you wrote too quickly
 * pitti hugs seb128
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> I'm not sure how the local .gconf.path works now
<seb128> ie if those are used after or before the system list
<mvo> Amaranth: I just checked compiz bzr - does gconf really have to be removed? it means users will always have to install cpp if they don't want to use the ini backend?
<joaopinto> hum, shouldn't pidgin have transparent tray icons ?
<seb128> transparent?
<joaopinto> yes, unlike all the other tray icons on the notification are pidgin overrides my background
<joaopinto> I meam the icon's background should be transparent
<seb128> dunno about this one, look on launchpad and upstream bugs?
<joaopinto> erm, pidgin is main, no core dev using it :P ?
<joaopinto> ok, searching
<pitti> joaopinto: empathy FTW :)
<joaopinto> pitti, right, but pidgin is still main :P
<joaopinto> but yes, I shoud also sart using empathy
<seb128> joaopinto, I use pidgin most of the time but I'm too busy to look to such details today
<joaopinto> it's already reported, bug 447548
<seb128> good
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 447548 in pidgin "Pidgin tray icon does not follow panel background" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/447548
<joaopinto> seb128, you could you just set your panel bar to transparent to confirm, it could be config specific
<seb128> joaopinto, I'm running empathy right now and I don't fancy to close to try
<seb128> joaopinto, and to be honest I don't really care about transparency or not right now
<seb128> I've other higher issue on my karmic list
<joaopinto> ok ok, easy :P
<seb128> there thousand of tiny details like that in launchpad we will not fix those for karmic now
<seb128> but you found a bug so it's tracked
<joaopinto> I am checking upstream, it's also reported there, I am not sure yet if it's fixed because it was set as a duplicate of a much complex bug
<seb128> hate gconf
<seb128> pitti, I can't get it working and I don't know why
<pitti> seb128: it's not just because of the now existing ~/.gconf from the gconftool settings?
<seb128> pitti, no, I did rm -rf that one
<seb128> I did strace it
<seb128> it doesn't try to stat the dirs I add to /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.path
<seb128> nor use system list ones
<seb128> ie .gconf.path.defaults
<seb128> and I do restart gconfd-2 between tries
<pitti> seb128: hm, I wonder if /var/lib/gdm/.gconf.mandatory/%gconf-tree.xml actually works then
<pitti> does it work to merge the keys there?
<seb128> pitti, it does
<seb128> if I copy my %gconf-tree.xml there it's used
<seb128> I tried both merged and non merged ways
<seb128> pitti, ok that works
 * seb128 kicks gedit
<seb128> it was in a mode were ctrl-s was not storing the changes
<seb128> but not saying it was not either
<pitti> seb128: "saying"?
<seb128> pitti, no error, it was acting like ctrl-s was working
<seb128> but it was not, the file on disk was not updated
<pitti> ah
<pitti> how weird
<seb128> yes
<seb128> anyway it works
<pitti> you rock
<seb128> pitti, I will put that in bzr for review soon
<seb128> pitti, what did we say we would do with the chown?
<pitti> seb128: IMHO:
<pitti> chown gdm:gdm /var/lib/gdm
<pitti> chown -R gdm:gdm /var/lib/gdm/.gconf*
<seb128> is there any need for that?
<pitti> so that we don't catch /var/lib/gdm/.gvfs
<seb128> chown gdm:gdm /var/lib/gdm
<pitti> seb128: well, I don't know what gconf thinks if .gconf.mandatory is root owned (as shipped in the .deb)
<seb128> should that be the case anyway?
<pitti> seb128: yes, otherwise gdm can't write into its home dir
<seb128> ok
<seb128> works for me
<seb128> pitti, I'm putting that in bzr and pinging you for review in a bit
<seb128> thanks!
<pitti> but we only ship that dir and .gconf*, so we shouldn't need to chwon anything else
<pitti> seb128: merci
<seb128> does chown stops on errors?
<seb128> I was wondering if adding || true would work
<pitti> seb128: if the chown fails, we have a problem, though
<seb128> pitti, the changes are in gdm r144 if you want to review
<pitti> seb128: looks good to me, thank you! please go ahead and upload
<seb128> pitti, ok thanks!
<diverse_izzue> why is the package gstreamer0.10-schrodinger suddenly marked as obsolete?
<diverse_izzue> When I pair my Nokia E51 with Karmic over Bluetooth, should I not be offered to use it as a modem with NetworkManager?
<davidbarth> seb128: on #436975 we have resolved the configurability issue; while the confusion may remain with n-daemon settings
<davidbarth> seb128: (hi, btw)
<davidbarth> seb128: can i add a task to notification-daemon (ubuntu) to track that issue post karmic?
<seb128> hey davidbarth
<seb128> bug #436975
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436975 in notify-osd "Unconfigurable position of notification" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/436975
<seb128> davidbarth, I think there is already some bugs about that
<seb128> davidbarth, the bug has also been taken over by people confused by the 2 slots
<davidbarth> seb128: ok, i'll try to find the one on the settings dialog; i will close this one and call for the 2-slots discussion to happen on the ayatana list
<seb128> davidbarth, I'm surprised nobody did seen the number of comments about that on other bugs
<dpm> hi all
<seb128> davidbarth, see bug #438536
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438536 in notify-osd "Notifications should show up closer to top right" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438536
<seb128> hey dpm
<dpm> hey seb128
<dpm> could anyone perhaps look at bug 451673?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451673 in yelp "Untranslated Yelp main page (Ubuntu Help Center)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451673
<seb128> dpm, it's just a matter to get an extra from rosetta and to build with it
<seb128> dpm, it's already on my list for today
<dpm> seb128, ok, thanks
<seb128> dpm, the translated xml are in the source so it doesn't use language packs there
<seb128> davidbarth, some people did a ppa with the 2 slots change undone see the bug ;-)
<dpm> seb128, yes I know. It only seems to affect the first help page, though. Other sections seem to be translated as usual
<seb128> dpm, the documentation content is in the ubuntu documentation package, only the index is in the browser
<dpm> ah, ok
<seb128> davidbarth, MacSlow|lunch: you might also want to review the change from asac to use correct icon prefix in notify-osd
<seb128> davidbarth, MacSlow|lunch: or karmic will use what mac_v call incorrect icons
<mac_v> davidbarth: seb128: MacSlow|lunch :  *i* dont call the incorrect but rather... they are incorrect ;) well as far as the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NotifyOSD#Icon documentation says ;)
<mac_v> davidbarth: regarding the 2 slots , it is something new .. some users *will* find weird... IMO , doesnt seem like a wrong choice... ayatana discussion is good though :)
<seb128> mac_v, I find it confusing, not nice looking and unefficient
<seb128> I'm pretty sure we will get a gconf key for that next cycle
<mac_v> ;)
<seb128> but seems some people need to make mistake, get really unhappy users complaining to then make things how they should ;-)
<asac> seb128: you think there would be time to do any major icon shuffeling in karmic?
<asac> i thought not ... whihc is why i pushed this back to lucid in my personal plans atm
<asac> but if we want to do something ... lets talk ;)
<seb128> asac, I don't know, I guess it's late now yes
<asac> i dont see that there is something really urgent besides general confusion about the fdo icon name spec and a bunch of hacks in the theme
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's just that what we have doesn't match what the design says
<seb128> and we try to follow design team recommendations
<seb128> but I don't really care either which icon is used
<mac_v> asac: this wouldnt be much of an icon reshuffling , this is probably a high priority bug from the UX team's perspective , which two dev teams didnt want to fix from their ends ;)  the notify-osd icons were supposed to be greyscale to re-enforce the concept of the bubbles being non-interactive... or maybe mpt can waive it and postpone this for Lucid ;)
<asac> in what sense are we not matching what they suggestd?
<asac> i think we should come up with a list of problems
<asac> maybe we can address some of them still ... even if not proper
<asac> mac_v: right. but was there ever a bug filed?
<asac> i had the feeling this just came up recently
<mac_v> asac: no one knew where to file it ;)
<asac> at least bringing on topic during a desktop meeting would have helped
<mac_v> asac: the gpm change [to show the notifications] was done recently and probably that was why this didnt come up earlier
<mac_v> jaunty was just blocking the gpm notifications
<mac_v> asac: kwwii has been asking about this for nearly 2 weeks :(   mat_t *probably* has more info why the bug wasnt filed
<asac>  mac_v so my suggseted patch for notify-osd tries first to get icons with notification- prefix
<asac> i felt that the current notification names have not much in common with the icon names used by the apps
<asac> so imo that wouldnt really help without theme reshuffeling
<asac> like: nm applet used nm-wired .... and the icon is named notification-wireless etc.
<asac> so even with my patch the notification-nm-wired wouldnt have been there
<mac_v> asac: i agree , that the patch would be the right way to go , though i havent tested the patch to see if it works
<mac_v> asac: oh , so that means the notification icons have to be renamed.. that shouldnt be a problem
<asac> mac_v: it works. it just requires that the notification theme ships the same icons names used by apps ... just with notification- prefix
<asac> i want to celan the patch up to make it even less regression risky. but you can try as it is
<asac> mac_v: well. thats what i meant with "icon name reshuffeling"
<mac_v> kwwii:  ^ renaming the notify-osd icons as asac mentions  , is there a problem with that?
<asac> i am not sure why the current names were choosen ...
<asac> i always felt like the idea was to invent a complete new icon name space/standard
<asac> anyway. i am recharging my batteries today a bit ;) ... so either lets discuss this later this evening or tomorrow
<kwwii> asac, mac_v: not sure if we can get taht in efore release
<kwwii> before
<asac> kwwii: davidbarth: mat_t: mac_v: we can have a call tomorrow
<asac> to see what we can do or not do still
<kwwii> asac: ok
<asac> anyone in US ... or would 11000 Berlin time work?
<asac> 1100 ;)
<jcastro> vuntz|away: are you guys shipping gwibber by default?
<davidbarth> asac: i'm chatting with kwwii atm
<asac> ok thanks.
<asac> davidbarth: the notify-osd patch i suggsted would prefer a requested icon name prefixed with notification- ... so gpm sends: gpm-battery-low ... notify-osd would first try notification-gpm-batter-low
<asac> if we want to do something like that i will resubmit the patch in a safe fashion
<asac> ok ... bb in 2hours
<mac_v> asac: just a min
<asac> hmm
<asac> quick
<asac> my body-gpm tells me that i have only 2 minutes battery left ;)
<mac_v> asac: why isnt it > gpm-battery-low-notification
<asac> mac_v: because its a notify-osd specific thing
<asac> mac_v: the suffix would be something upstream source would use
<mac_v> asac: oh ,  ok.. i just thought if it was that way the fallbacks should work .. but anyways thanks :)
<asac> mac_v: well. appending -notification would be a "normal" way to do it upstream. so we cannot just append that as it might conflict with existing upstream stuff
<asac> so upstream ships a gpm-notification icon for something else
<mac_v> true
<asac> and we tell notify-osd to show "gpm" ... that would make notify-osd to display the gpm-notification icon ...
<asac> which might be right ... or wrong ... prefixing is the safe way forward imo
<asac> at best not notification- .... but even "notify-osd"
<asac> as prefix
<asac> also i have to check the fallback mechanism
<asac> i tried it in gnome-bluetooth and it seems that it does not work in gtk
<asac> e.g. it doesnt do the specced fallback automatically
<mac_v> asac: tedg had a similar problem with indicator-session , he's filed a bug in bgo too
<asac> i think it should be easy to fix
<asac> question is more why it wasnt implemented yet
<asac> as it feels to easy ... so it might have been not done for some reason
<seb128> asac, it does but not for all functions getting an image
<seb128> asac, and you have to set a flag
<seb128> asac, ie gtk_icon_theme_load_icon does it
 * mac_v doesnt understand why all upstream apps need a patch in the ubuntu versions to use the notify-osd properly , whatever the reasons ;)
<seb128> mac_v, because you want to use a different icon that the one used now?
<mac_v> seb128: still that doesnt meant something like asac's solution should have been implemented/speced in the start itself
<mac_v> mean*
<asac> seb128: ok i will check that. i now reread the spec and fallbacks are a bit differently handled than i thought (e.g. no fallback on sppliction level ... only theme level)
<seb128> mac_v, right, I agree with that
<asac> i think notifiy-osd wants to use special icons ... so it should also try the prefixing as i suggested
<seb128> +1
<asac> but rather than notification- ... actually notify-osd
<asac> and since we need e to shuffle names anyway then we can just do that in the same turn
 * mac_v notes asac's body-gpm has extra/hidden battery life ;p 
<asac> i am at -20% ;)
<asac> anyway ... off for a few hours ... then back checking on bugs and icons :)
<hyperair> can anyone running compiz with desktop wall test out something?
<hyperair> wall with a 3x2 layout
<hyperair> or even 2x2
<mac_v> mvo: hi , the "packages out of date" icon in the notification are of the panel , what icon name does it use? is it gtk-warning?
<mac_v> or stock_dialog-warning
<mat_t> asac: hi
<mat_t> asac: what would the call be about?
<asac> 15:01 < asac> anyway ... off for a few hours ... then back checking on bugs and icons :)
<asac> mat_t: about what to do about notify-osd icons ... and if something in karmic still
<mat_t> asac: ok, any specific issues?
<asac> read backlog ;)
<mat_t> uh
<asac> i am out now ... we can chat in 2h ;)
<mvo> mac_v: gtk-dialog-warning
<mat_t> asac: ok, am quite busy with other stuff atm, but we can chat in 2h (just ping me)
<asac> mat_t: you were just named as one pushing hard for getting notify-osd icons
<asac> thx
<mat_t> heh
<mat_t> cool, speak later
<mac_v> mat_t: mvo says its the "gtk-dialog-warning" icon , but if it needs a panel icon , "gtk-dialog-warning-panel" would be an ideal... you need to convince mvo :)
<mac_v> or kwwii ^
<mvo> mac_v: I can change the name is there is a matching icon already
<mac_v> mvo: awesome... icon will be ready very soon :)
<mvo> eh?
<mvo> aren't we in a deep freeze
<mvo> and way after ui freeze?
<kwwii> mvo: yes, but this can as an email from mark to me just now
<kwwii> mvo: asking me to please correct it
<kwwii> ;)
<kwwii> anyway, there are still other icons issues open :p
<mvo> kwwii: aha, thats different than
<mvo> kwwii: this paricular icon?
<mvo> kwwii: please mail it to me once its there, I upload it today
<mac_v> mvo: its this icon > http://imgur.com/O491D , the orange /!\ one
<kwwii> mvo: ok, I'll get the icon from mac_v and add it to the theme
<kwwii> if we need to rename anything for notify-osd it would make sense to do this as one update
<mvo> hm, but this will require a icon theme with this icon name, its not a standard one
<mvo> (a standard name)
<mvo> that is a bit ugly, I would rather like to include it in u-n then
<mvo> so that I have a fallback
<mac_v> kwwii: mvo: so the name "gtk-dialog-warning-panel" would be ok ? this allows fallbacks if themes dont have the icon
<kwwii> mac_v: yes, that sounds correct
<mvo> ok, sorry for my ignorance - you will add somewhere that the fallback for that is gtk-dialog-warning ? so that e.g. xubuntu does get a icon as well?
<mvo> or will I have to add this in my code?
 * mvo smells its the later
<kwwii> mvo: naming the icon that way allows for the other themes to fallback to gtk-dialog-warning
<kwwii> you need to add it to your code
<kwwii> if *-panel doesn't exist it should fall back to gtk-dialog-warning
<mac_v> mvo: it think > <seb128> asac, ie gtk_icon_theme_load_icon does it
<mac_v> i*
<mvo> I just tried that with a bit of python and I don't get a icon in this case
<mvo> >>> import gtk
<mvo> >>> icons = gtk.icon_theme_get_default()
<mvo> >>> icons.load_icon("gtk-dialog-warning-panel", 16, 0)
<mvo> Traceback (most recent call last):
<mvo>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
<mvo> glib.GError: Symbol Â»gtk-dialog-warning-panelÂ« nicht im Thema vorhanden
<mvo> seb128: am I using it incorrectly?
<seb128> mvo, there is a fallback lookup flag you need to use
<mvo> seb128: aha, not exposed in python (or the docs) - thanks
<seb128> mvo, http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkIconTheme.html
<mvo> yeah, I have it now
<seb128> mvo, lookup flags
<seb128> ok, good
<mvo> kwwii: is there a open bug for this?
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hi pitti
<rickspencer3> we are getting quite close, are we not?
<pitti> *shudder* :-)
<kwwii> mvo: not sure, I will check
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey
<seb128> rickspencer3, karmic frozen if that's what you mean
<rickspencer3> hi guys
<Amaranth> mvo: The gconf plugin interferes with the ccp plugin due to the new system where compiz forces plugins loaded on the command line to stay loaded
<seb128> so I'm running with the indicator applet since yesterday just to try again
<rickspencer3> seb128, frozen, and looking good
<seb128> is anybody else getting the buddy list of messages often not getting focus with compiz?
<Amaranth> mvo: and ccsm and such don't work without ccp anyway
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, i am getting that crash in desktopcouch now
<seb128> ie they open with the request for attention blinking
<kenvandine> the 401
<kenvandine> debugging with chad now
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, oh, other people hit that?
<kenvandine> i did now
<mvo> kwwii: I commited the change
<Amaranth> "Gdk motion event changed behavior in 2.18"
<Amaranth> hmm, perhaps that is the problem with flash
<Amaranth> If I had the source I could test it :P
<kwwii> mvo: ok, so all we need is the icon in the theme named *-panel.png, right?
<pitti> seb128: hm, did you tag empathy as uploaded, but forgot to actually upload?
<pitti> I don't see 2.28.0.1-1ubuntu6 in karmic or the queue
<seb128> pitti, no, I did first thing today
<seb128> I must have screwed something
<seb128> let me look
 * \sh hugs kwwii for giving us users such a nice l&f 
<seb128> pitti, I apparently forgot the dput or typoed it
<seb128> pitti, doing that now
<seb128> kenvandine, pitti: do you know why we have this 30_raise_not_toggle.patch change btw?
 * seb128 ponders dropping it
<pitti> seb128: I find it confusing, not sure
<seb128> I hate it
<seb128> I will just roll back to pidgin because of it
<seb128> pitti, empathy uploaded btw
<pitti> seb128: merci
<kenvandine> seb128, that is based on design team
<seb128> pitti, it was in my upload queue but with no .upload so I guess I screwed the put call
<seb128> kenvandine, do you have a bug about it? do you know who in the design team I should talk with about that?
<kenvandine> mpt
<kenvandine> there was a bug... pidgin has the same change
<seb128> thanks
<kenvandine> in pidgin-libnotify
<seb128> no pidgin doesn't
<seb128> I'm using pidgin because it doesn't
<kenvandine> humm
<kenvandine> well probably not on the icon
<kwwii> mvo: ok, the icon is added to the humanity package at lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release/
<kenvandine> but in the indicator it does
<seb128> ah could be
<kwwii> mvo: can you upload the icon theme when you include your changes?
<seb128> anyway not karmic material now
<kenvandine> it isn't trivial to split that out in empathy atm
<seb128> I will bring that as uds topic
<seb128> it breaks upstream behaviour for those who don't use the indicator
<seb128> kenvandine, do you know about the buddy list opening non focused and flashing using compiz?
<seb128> kenvandine, not sure if that's a compiz bug
<seb128> Amaranth, ^
<seb128> that happens only when using the indicator though
<seb128> not when clicking on the notification area icon
<kenvandine> seb128, i have seen that happen with the icon
<seb128> so could be a tedg bug
<seb128> it happens almost every time with the indicator there
<mpt> I reported a bug of that form
<Amaranth> if it's not presenting the window correctly compiz will block it
<mpt> bug 444467
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444467 in indicator-applet "Choosing IM menu item doesn't focus the window" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444467
<Amaranth> actually metacity would too but it seems to have a race condition of sorts so it only blocks it every so often
<Amaranth> like the polkit window getting focus
<kwwii> mvo, pitti: if not, can someone else see that the humanity icons are updated...I just told mark that we got it done ;)
<tedg> seb128: I think it may be something related to XEmbed.  I think that the focus stealing protection notices that as a "click in the application" vs. "the application asking to be raised."  I'm thinking we should turn of focus stealing protection by default.
<Amaranth> but I don't use empathy (or any other IM program) so this is hard to test
<pitti> kwwii: "if not"?
<tedg> off that is
<seb128> tedg, because having focus stealing your input is so nice?
<Amaranth> tedg: And I think you're crazy, that is not happening
<seb128> tedg, or because you like to type your password to your im contacts?
<tedg> Because fixing it in the Window Manager creates really bad behavior with everything else.
<seb128> where?
<seb128> the only thing misbehaving there is the indicator
<Amaranth> Not having focus stealing prevention creates really bad behavior with everything else
<seb128> I've never an issue using launcher, menus, etc
<tedg> Okay, the code that we had to steal to make it every reasonable is insane.  We're doing things like resetting event timers, and it still doesn't work right.
<kwwii> pitti: if not, please explain to mark why it didn't happen, it was formed as a statement to me from him, not a question
<pitti> kwwii: sorry, first time I hear about it
<pitti> kwwii: so shall I review the branch and upload?
<kwwii> pitti: yeah, I only bugged you cause mvo was busy and hadn't responded yet
<kwwii> pitti: just trying to make sure that someone takes care of it
<tedg> I think that we should turn off focus stealing protection, and fix the bugs.  I think there are fewer than most people think.
<pitti> kwwii: the changelog says "added", but it really changed the icon; isn't that used somewhere else, too? (the name sounds fairly generic)
<pitti> kwwii: oops, no; the commit changes Humanity/actions/48/document-export.svg, but the changelog says "Added gtk-dialog-warning-panel.svg"
<kwwii> pitti: lol, I forgot to bzr add the icons :)
<kwwii> sorry
<pitti> kwwii: please pull before, I fixed the changelog
<pitti> kwwii: (to "unreleased", and broke long line)
<pitti> kwwii: what changed in document-export.svg?
<superm1> pitti, i just wanted to make sure that you did see bug 448988, correct?  no one confirmed/triaged or anything and i'm still seeing it with daily builds as far as 10/15
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 448988 in usplash "--pulse-logo doesn't actually pulse the logo" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448988
<tedg> seb128: The reason that it happens with the indicator is that the indicator isn't doing the action, it's the application getting a signal over dbus and doing it.  Other things like the wnck pager tell the window manager that they're special and thus it should actually listen to them.  So, probably the solution there is to have every app tell the WM that they're panels :)
<Amaranth> tedg: are you going to patch every IM app to open their IM windows without focus?
<Amaranth> tedg: including skype?
<pitti> superm1: I tested it with today's image, and it works fine for me; not for you?
<mpt> tedg, I don't think focus stealing prevention is a matter of hiding bugs. As long as we have windows we'll have windows opening at arbitrary times, so we'll need heuristics to guess whether they should be focused or not.
<Amaranth> mpt: we have such heuristics
<tedg> Amaranth: We've already patched all the default ones...
<mpt> Amaranth, indeed
<superm1> pitti, i had tested a 10-15 mythbuntu iso in virtualbox.  is it possible that this functionality is just not working in virtualbox then?
<Amaranth> tedg: but you can't fix skype
<seb128> tedg, to not steal focus? how so?
<Amaranth> or any other closed source apps
<kwwii> pitti: it was a minor outstanding change which I didn't notice at first
<Amaranth> seb128: just change the IM windows to now have focus on map
<tedg> mpt: The problem is how little information we have on why the window was opened.  Only the application really knows that.
<pitti> superm1: it doesn't work for me in kvm either, but on real iron it does; no clue yet
<pitti> (just tried)
<Amaranth> s/now/not/
<seb128> tedg, why can't you pass the timestamp for the action over dbus?
<tedg> seb128: No, mostly we've patched them to try to get focus ;)
<kwwii> pitti: ok, now they are included...thanks for checking that
<seb128> so the application which get the dbus signal can do it using a correct timestamp
<Amaranth> you can set the timestamp in the future before popping up the window
<superm1> pitti, interesting.  okay, i'll get some real hardware to try on.  if i have anything that fails, i'll add it to the bug
<seb128> which should trigger focus stealing prevention only if you have new events
<pitti> superm1: thanks
<mpt> tedg, yes, it would be nice to have an API for "this window opened from this object in this window" (not to be confused with transient-for). That could be used for zooming animation for opening the window, as well as for improving the heuristic.
<Amaranth> because the main test is "was the last user event before or after this window popped up?"
<Amaranth> mpt: that'd be an EWMH addition
<tedg> seb128: Hmm, interesting.  Because I hadn't thought of it :)
<tedg> I wonder if that'd work.
<seb128> why wouldn't it work?
<mclasen> Amaranth: I believe the ewmh has stuff for that
<seb128> the focus stealing only compare timestamps
<tedg> seb128: Well, that's not all it does.  It does things like whether the applications is running and what type of window it is as well.
<tedg> Obviously this wouldn't be for Karmic :)
 * tedg imagines trying to get that exception through.
<Amaranth> tedg: it's simple code, really
<superm1> mpt, when you looked at mcc yesterday, were there icons on the buttons on the right?  there was a bug w/ it running in gnome that the icons didn't show up (and it looked like junk in that scenario).  it's been fixed now, and is much prettier
<tedg> Amaranth: Uhm, really?  I mean, two dbus interfaces have to change.
<Amaranth> tedg: i meant the focus stealing prevention
<tedg> Ah, okay.
<Amaranth> if you want to see how to get around it
<Amaranth> http://git.compiz.org/compiz/core/tree/src/window.c?h=compiz-0.8#n5026
<tedg> Amaranth: Simple except that "evalMatch" pretty much has it's own source file as well ;)
<mpt> superm1, yes, the buttons were there
<mpt> superm1, the icons were there, I mean
<superm1> mpt, okay cool
<mpt> superm1, but it was still quite confusing, because as soon as I clicked somewhere else in the window I could no longer see which category I was in
<superm1> mpt, yeah a bit of deficiency of using buttons since you can't keep the focus on the button and elsewhere in the window
<superm1> each of those buttons is actually a separate plugin
<rickspencer3> sweet, bughugger works again
<rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
<seb128> rickspencer3, is that another tool of yours?
<rickspencer3> seb128, yes ... it used to be "bug-zapper" but bdmurray didn't like that name
<rickspencer3> all of my apps use desktopcouch, but due to the "bug" that kenvandine and the U1 crew just solved, it couldn't start
<seb128> oh ok
<diverse_izzue> when i spawn a guest session, my xorg process uses loads of CPU and the systems is extremely sluggish. is that a known bug?
<pitti> Riddell: argh, bug 339313 is alive again?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339313 in plasma-widget-networkmanagement "Kubuntu Jaunty: Cannot Connect To Wireless Network with WEP shared key" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339313
<Riddell> pitti: works for me
<pitti> Riddell: so should this be downgraded perhaps?
<Riddell> pitti: looking at comment 88 it seems to be a problem with the type of password
<pitti> yeah, WEP has 3 different password types AFAIR
<Riddell> the dialogue only offers two options
<tedg> rickspencer3: No PPA? :(  https://launchpad.net/~bug-zapper/+ppa-packages
<rickspencer3> tedg, use bughugger in my ppa
<rickspencer3> bug-zapper is dead, but I haven't had a chance to bury the body yet
<tedg> rickspencer3: Ah, okay, found it.
<tedg> rickspencer3: Thanks!
<rickspencer3> ted, it's a quickly app now
<rickspencer3> so you can use quickly edit, quickly glade, quickly package, quickly release, etc...
<Riddell> pitti: I'll confirm with upstream but I think that bug should be closed and another one opened for this paticular problem
<pitti> Riddell: *nod*; thanks
<jbicha> is xforcevesa broken in Karmic?
<superm1> jbicha, it should work as of the dailies about a week ago
<jbicha> ok I'll try again, thanks
<superm1> jbicha, just checked, 10-09 or later will have it
<andreasn> mpt, quick software center question. Where does this dialog come from? http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/184285/Screenshot-softwcenter.png
<superm1> jbicha, (bug 423969)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 423969 in casper ""Safe Graphics Mode" doesn't force VESA" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/423969
<superm1> andreasn, python-aptdaemon-gtk isn't it?
<jbicha> I thought I had tried after that date, but I'll try again with today's build & see if I still have issues, thanks
<mpt> andreasn, policykit-gnome, via aptdaemon
<mpt> andreasn, and what superm1 said
<andreasn> mpt, thanks!
<mpt> andreasn, I redesigned the policykit-gnome alert a bit, but Robert Ancell didn't have time to implement it
<mvo_> kwwii: hey, sorry, disconnected - shoudl I sponsor the iocn theme update? what is the lp url?
<awe> pitti: do we ever spin a development release between beta & final?
<andreasn> mpt, oh, that's great! because I can't really understand what it says
<pitti> awe: just a release candidate (next Thursday)
<awe> pitti, can people download it?
<kwwii> mvo_: lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release but you might want to check with pitti, after I couldn't find you I bugged him ;)
<mpt> andreasn, unfortunately, I never specified the primary text for that particular alert
<kwwii> mvo_: I take that back, pitti just uploaded it
 * kwwii *hugs* pitti, mvo_ 
 * pitti hugs kwwii
<mvo_> kwwii: cool, I upload update-notifier then too
 * \sh looks for a documentation about the contents of get_style().base[gtk.STATE_NORMAL] looks like that this is the cause for bug #440030
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440030 in gwibber "[KARMIC] gwibber text input box has white BG & FG for dark themes." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440030
<kwwii> mvo_: excellent, thanks
<andreasn> mpt, is there a bug open about it?
<mpt> andreasn, not that I know of, you're welcome to report it
<andreasn> sure
<awe> pitti: the new pulseaudio drops rtkit as a recommends, but it doesn't actually get removed unless you explicitly do so; or install from scratch
<pitti> awe: hm, I guess apt-get autoremove will?
<mpt> Sounds like another case for ... Recommends-Removing :-)
<pitti> mpt: that's called "autoremove" :)
<awe> pitti: just wanted to make sure some folks besides myself, TheMuso, and Daniel run it.  ;)
<awe> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/406702
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 406702 in linux "rtkit requires a kernel patch" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<dtchen> alternately, we could do crummy things with versioned conflicts (ugh)
<seb128> is there any issue to have it installed?
<awe> seb128, yea...it fills your daemon.log with InvalidParam log messages & wastes cycles ( it's a daemon )
<seb128> use a conflicts
<awe> ok.  that might not be a bad idea for now, just to get the testing coverage.  I'll ping TheMuso.  dtchen, what do you think?
<awe> seb128: asac asked me to ping you re: your nm-connection-editor re-connect problem.  are you still seeing it, and if so, is there a bug #?
<seb128> awe, yes
<seb128> awe, I've no bug number
<seb128> I just tried though and NetworkManager segfault
<awe> seb128, can you explain then?  ;)
<seb128> NetworkManager segfaults when I start the editor
<seb128> let me get you the stacktrace
<awe> can you give me a quick re-cap of the scenario?  I thought it was nm-connection-editor -> wired tab -> select eth0 -> click edit?
<seb128> no
<seb128> it's right click on the notification area, edit -> nm crash
<awe> hmm, that's bad...  i assume you updated this morning?
<seb128> no
<seb128> did you fix a such bug?
<awe> nope
<awe> send me the stack trace though, and i'll take a look
<awe> i've been looking at that code recently
<awe> seb128, does it crash *every* time?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> #0  IA__g_type_check_instance_cast (type_instance=0x9ca1520, iface_type=80)
<seb128>     at /build/buildd/glib2.0-2.22.2/gobject/gtype.c:3728
<seb128> #1  0x00ecd0c8 in polkit_authority_check_authorization_async (
<seb128>     authority=0x9ca1520, subject=0x9c9c190,
<seb128>     action_id=0x80c5e60 "org.freedesktop.network-manager-settings.system.modify", details=0x0, flags=POLKIT_CHECK_AUTHORIZATION_FLAGS_NONE, cancellable=0x0,
<seb128>     callback=0x80accf0, user_data=0x9ce3428) at polkitauthority.c:348
<seb128> hum
<seb128> awe, http://paste.ubuntu.com/294059/
<seb128> awe, bug #434391
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434391 in network-manager "NetworkManager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434391
<awe> seb128, ok, thanks!
<seb128> bug #438574
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438574 in network-manager "NetworkManager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438574
<seb128> those are similar
<seb128> awe, let me know if you need details
<awe> ok
<dtchen> awe: if you have to use Conflicts, then you have to use it (:
<awe> dtchen, I think it just might be the best way to get testing coverage before final.  sigh...
<mac_v> seb128: hadness has replied on the volume mute bug report > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598459
<ubottu> Gnome bug 598459 in gnome-volume-control "the mute icon is used when the volume is set to 0 but not muted" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
 * mpt growls at djsiegel1 because gnome-do is using 196% CPU
<djsiegel1> mpt: please talk to the current maintainer of GNOME Do. Do was a mean lean machine when I handed over the project, thank you very much.
<bratsche> Hey, anyone know what's up with bug #197290?  Is there some way to see the configure output where this gets built for i386 and see if the "_FILE_OFFSET_BITS value needed for large files..." line says 64?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 197290 in evolution "2 gb max inbox" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197290
<djsiegel1> mpt: but word on the street is that the Firefox plugin is affected by a nasty SQL bug, so disabling that should restore normalcy.
<\sh> bratsche, use the source?
<rickspencer3> seb128, pitti - imagine this situation ...
<rickspencer3> you buy a dell mini10v with windows on it ...
 * seb128 almost did
<rickspencer3> a friend convinces you to try Ubuntu on it ...
 * djsiegel1 sees that GNOME Do is running at 0% CPU, 27mb of RAM on my machine :)
<rickspencer3> you install Ubuntu ...
<rickspencer3> because we disabled tap to click by default, it is all but unusable
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<Laney> the mouse button on my macbook is broken
<pitti> rickspencer3: "all but unusable" sounds "good" to me
<pitti> rickspencer3: is that a praise or a bug report?
<Laney> which wil make it difficult to try karmic ;)
<rickspencer3> pitti, as in "you can't click with the mouse as there is no physical mouse button"
<pitti> rickspencer3: uh?
<rickspencer3> there is no separate mouse button
<bratsche> \sh: My systems are both x86-64 and this only affects i386, so I don't think I can check here.  I was hoping the configure output would be logged on a build server somewhere I could look or something.
<rickspencer3> (some macbooks are like this too)
<pitti> who in the world builds stuff like that?
<kklimonda> pitti, it's the new trend - saves them a few bucks ;)
<\sh> bratsche, on launchpad you will find all build logs for evolution
<rickspencer3> uh, one of the strongest proponents of pre-installing linux in the world?
<Laney> the macbooks have mouse buttons
<Laney> well, just one
<pitti> kklimonda: and costs the user tons of headache and frustration?
<rickspencer3> I <3 Dell, so I;'m not going to diss them
<rickspencer3> well, in any case, it is what it is
<pitti> rickspencer3: and I thought Apple was bad for just having one button; but seems you can top even that :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: do you have such a  machine at hand?
<rickspencer3> pitti, I would not be surprised if this continues
<bratsche> Launchpad is a big place.  That's why I was asking.
<rickspencer3> pitti, no
<pitti> rickspencer3: I wonder whether we can enable it by default if the device says that it doesn't have buttons
<\sh> bratsche, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/33091255/buildlog_ubuntu-karmic-i386.evolution_2.28.0-0ubuntu4_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz <- latest evolution build on i386
<bratsche> Thanks.
<rickspencer3> pitti, http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/08/quickly-new-rails-like-rapid-development-tools-for-ubuntu.ars
<rickspencer3> in this case, it is enabled by default because it is pre-installed
<rickspencer3> oops, wrong link
<seb128> rickspencer3, tseliot had a patch for that
<rickspencer3> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/10/pygmy-portable-dell-mini-10v-with-the-ubuntu-moblin-remix.ars
<seb128> rickspencer3, 2 days ago or something
<seb128> tseliot, did that got uploaded?
<rickspencer3> well, I am opening discussion because I think we need to reconsider our position
<pitti> rickspencer3: if it's built with any sanity, "lsinput" would say that the mouse can't do EV_KEY, then we could enable it based on that
<kklimonda> pitti, I guess it depends on how well tap to click works - on OSX it's really good so you don't miss buttons :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, pitti: guys, that's a bug with a patch
<rickspencer3> well, I guess it is technically enabled to click, but:
<rickspencer3> Although the keyboard in the 10v is a laudable improvement, the touchpad is a pitiful failure. The design is so fundamentally flawed that I can't believe it ever made it off the drawing board and into a product.
 * seb128 search for bug number
<pitti> kklimonda: well, from my POV can't work well, ever; it's a pain in the butt
<rickspencer3> so essentially, you *can* tap, if you can figure it out
<rickspencer3> pitti, personally, I hate tap to click, and turn it off first thing
<seb128> rickspencer3, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598287
<rickspencer3> and I know it is confusing to users ...
<ubottu> Gnome bug 598287 in plugins "Tap-to-click should be enabled if the touchpad has no physical buttons" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<rickspencer3> but in terms of Ubuntu working universally, I think we may need to reconsider this
<pitti> seb128: yay, that's pretty much what I had in mind
<seb128> rickspencer3, do you read me? ;-)
<pitti> rickspencer3: sure, if there are no buttons, enabling it is a no-brainer
<rickspencer3> seb128, yes, reading the bug
<rickspencer3> seb128, is that already in?
<seb128> tseliot, any reason you didn't upload to karmic?
 * rickspencer3 wonders if the dell reports that it has buttons
<seb128> rickspencer3, no, it's not
<seb128> rickspencer3, tseliot came with it 2 days ago
<seb128> but didn't upload apparently
<kklimonda> pitti, your main concern about tap to click is the user's confusion or the precision of the tap itself?
<pitti> kklimonda: it's "it exists"
<rickspencer3> seb128, if this works on the 10v, could we consider it, or is it too risky?
<pitti> kklimonda: I keep tapping on the thing while typing, or you accidentally tap when you don't mean to, etc.
<pitti> rickspencer3: it doesn't look risky to me; the drawback is that you can't manually disable it any more
<pitti> rickspencer3: although disabling it is probably like "shooting yourself in the foot"
<seb128> rickspencer3, the patch? I though it was uploaded already, we want it for karmic
<rickspencer3> oh
<seb128> but I'm fine changing the default too if you want
<kklimonda> pitti, btw, if you are already here - could you comment on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/transmission/+bug/451554/comments/4 ?
<rickspencer3> seb128, could I ask you to follow up with tseliot and let me know the status
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451554 in transmission "transmission crashed with SIGSEGV in tr_torrentNext()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> it's one of those things I'm a bit nervous about
<seb128> seems every other os has that on by default
<seb128> and I'm wondering if we should not to be in the less surprise case
<kklimonda> pitti, you don't have to comment there, you can answer me here and I'll forward it :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, will do
<rickspencer3> well, if the patch is too risky, maybe we should joust turn tap to click on by default
<rickspencer3> again
 * rickspencer3 shudders
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'd prefer the case-by-case basis TBH
<rickspencer3> pitti, right, but it seems to me that simply switching the default is easy and low risk (consider this will be after freeze)
 * ccheney catching up on the backscroll, yea mini 10v has 'buttons' but they are so hideous you want to die before using them
<ccheney> because they are part of the touchpad itself and so you can't click without moving your cursor
<rickspencer3> ccheney, apparantly they are confusing too, people can't figure out to click
<pitti> rickspencer3: I'd like the patch to be confirmed to work on the 10v, yes
<seb128> rickspencer3, the consensus on the list at beta time seemed seem to be: tap-to-click on + the option to disable on typing
<seb128> no?
<ccheney> rickspencer3: heh, you have to press down on the touchpad hard enough to actually click it, its physical click on the touchpad itself
<pitti> rickspencer3: it looks safe, but it's not obvious whether it will actually work
<rickspencer3> I think we should go with what seb128 said
<ccheney> not like tap to click which all touchpads do (outside ubuntu)
<rickspencer3> we could do that with like two gconf changes I think
<rickspencer3> and satisfy most users
<rickspencer3> thoughts?
<seb128> ok, I suggest:
<pitti> rickspencer3: so, I don't have a strong enough opinion on "on by default" to fight for it (I know where to disable it, after all)
<ccheney> so with tap to click disabled did we also disable multitouch (eg scrolling etc as well)?
<seb128> -  adding tseliot patch it's correct
<seb128> - enable tap-on-lick
<pitti> rickspencer3: I don't know whether it's "most users", it seems people complain either way
<rickspencer3> pitti, correct
<pitti> seb128: both?
<seb128> - enable "don't allow tapping while typing"
<rickspencer3> well, people complain when it's off, and file bug reports when it is on
 * pitti chuckles, "tap on lick"
<pitti> now, that will look funny
<seb128> pitti, well tseliot's change is a "don't shot you in the foot"
<seb128> pitti, lol
<rickspencer3> ok, seb128 can I ask you a favor?
<pitti> seb128: an absolute "yay" for disabling the touchpad completly while you are typing
<pitti> that's actually my biggest concern about it as well
<rickspencer3> assume that we would like people installing Ubuntu on a 10v to have a good experience
<rickspencer3> despite what some may consider not so great hardware
<ccheney> and maybe even disable the physical buttons on the 10v, if anything :)
<rickspencer3> can you make a recommendations for how to accommodate that in a low risk fashion in Karmic if possible?
<seb128> rickspencer3, ok
<rickspencer3> seb128, like get back to us tomorrow on what you think we should do?
<rickspencer3> seb128, thanks
<seb128> will do
<rickspencer3> pitti, does that sound ok?
<ccheney> i have a 10v if anything needs to be tested
<seb128> rickspencer3, you're welcome
<pitti> rickspencer3: absolutely
<pitti> rickspencer3: so, I'm all for enabling that on the 10v, I don't have a very strong opinion about "enable generally" or "apply patch"
<ccheney> also have a regular old style 10 but i think those aren't supported by karmic
<rickspencer3> "enabling generally" seems to be what the community suggests (though not in 100% universally)
<tseliot> seb128: I'm here
<seb128> right, community argued that it's the less surprising behaviour
<ccheney> enabling generally does keep us with what users except (whether they actually like that default or not)
<ccheney> seb128: yea
<seb128> since any other os does that
<seb128> and it will look broken hardware otherwise
<seb128> tseliot, hey, any reason you didn't get your g-s-d fix in karmic?
<jbicha> superm1: I tried booting with today's daily-live CD & I got all sorts of squashfs errors and it refuses to load X
<seb128> jbicha, try #ubuntu
<jbicha> from USB
<tseliot> seb128: the one which enables tap-to-click when no physical buttons are available?
<seb128> tseliot, yes
<jbicha> but isn't it a problem if the daily CD builds don't work?
<tseliot> seb128: no, I filed a bug report upstream but I didn't uploaded. I thought you wanted some kind of confirmation from upstream
<seb128> tseliot, oh no, could you upload?
<seb128> tseliot, the change looks fine, I just wanted to make sure it goes upstream too
<seb128> tseliot, the change looks fine, I just wanted to make sure it goes upstream too
<seb128> ups, focus issues
<tseliot> seb128: ah, ok
<tseliot> here's the debdiff http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/karmic/distro/gnome-settings-daemon_2.28.0-0ubuntu4.debdiff
<seb128> tseliot, thanks
 * tseliot is not a core-dev yet and can't upload packages
<tseliot> np
<seb128> tseliot, right, I forgot about that, thanks
<tseliot> :-)
<pitti> kklimonda: in general, for SRU we prefer cherrypicked patches for data loss/security/very important bugs only
<pitti> kklimonda: we made some concessions in the past for updating to microversions (especially for LTSes), but since karmic isn't LTS we'll be pretty strict
<asac> seb128: the other bug you had before was that it reconnects when you open the editor
<seb128> asac, well it seems to reconnect but it's nm crashing
<asac> seb128: the connection editor crashes? or the nm-applet (those are different processe)
<seb128> asac, see IRC log
<Amaranth> hrm, no more tedg
<seb128> asac, /usr/sbin/NetworkManager
<seb128> asac, I didn't notice before because it just makes the applet spin and connect again
<asac> oh
<asac> even the backend
<asac> k
<Amaranth> evalMatch is for skipping focus stealing prevention, not important for what he is trying to do
<asac> yeah
<seb128> but apport triggered at the same time today
<asac> that explains it a bit
<seb128> cf the 2 bugs I gave before
<mvo_> Amaranth: did you see my earlier question re> gconf module?
<seb128> they have the same stacktrace
<Amaranth> mvo_: yeah, but gconf interferes with ccp on upgrades (even though gnome-wm was fixed) and the rest of our tools only work with ccp
<Amaranth> mvo_: and ccp just uses the same gconf keys/layout as the gconf plugin anyway so it's an easy transition for anyone who was actually patching compiz-wrapper to not use ccp before
<mvo_> Amaranth: ok, I guess its ok to let people use ini otherwise - what was the output from the -unsupported discussion?
<kklimonda> pitti: ok, thanks.
<mvo_> Amaranth: should we have it in the compiz ppa ? or just not at all
<pitti> kenvandine: are you working on bug 438365? If you are over-busy, need help with that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438365 in erlang "erlang should not depend on wxwidgets2.8" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438365
<Amaranth> mvo_: I would say not at all
 * mvo_ nods
<Amaranth> mvo_: only thing in there is useless eyecandy that is often broken
<mvo_> but *atlantis* ;)
<Amaranth> mvo_: I don't want anymore compiz crash reports :P
<mvo_> heh :)
<mvo_> yeah, I figured that
<mvo_> since you are the bugmaster its your decision, I'm fine with that
 * mvo_ hugs Amaranth
<Amaranth> mvo_: if they're worth having they move to extras or main :)
<mvo_> sounds like its time for compiz sponsoring
<Amaranth> although I don't think any have yet
<mvo_> did you upgrade the plugins bzr tree too?
<Amaranth> I updated everything except python-ccs, ccsm, and emerald
<Amaranth> kconfig didn't actually get an update and I don't think those did either
<Amaranth> mvo_: they all have working watch files now too so it makes it easier for you to get them ready to upload :)
<mvo_> great, many thanks
<mvo_> I noticed the watchfile update in core
<seb128> mvo_, waouh
<seb128> mvo_, 1.0!
<seb128> champagne ;-)
 * seb128 hugs mvo_
<kenvandine> pitti, well Rick had volunteered me for that one
<kenvandine> but i know nothing about erlang :)
<kenvandine> or if we care to build it with wxWidgets
<pitti> kenvandine: ok, please assign to me if you are overloaded
<kenvandine> i feel pretty good about empathy now though, could probably look at it
<\sh> hmmm...my ejabberd written in erlang doesn't have any gui ;)
<kenvandine> but i suspect you could make a call on it better than me :)
<pitti> kenvandine: yeah, I guess it ends up with "disable wx support"
 * kenvandine really doesn't like empathy for irc
<kenvandine> and it really doesn't play well with the indicator
<kenvandine> pitti, that was what i was thinking
<\sh> kenvandine, empathy just parts  all channels on my dircproxy
<mvo_> seb128: haha - I though people would like it :)
<kenvandine> \sh, it is working ok for me, i use znc
<kenvandine> but
<seb128> mvo_, btw your schemas typo fix, did you unfuzzy the translations?
<kenvandine> i get indicator events constantly
<kenvandine> cause we just see those as incoming events
<mvo_> seb128: no :(
<seb128> mvo_, :-(
<mvo_> seb128: its "just" internal in gconf, its still bad
<kenvandine> not sure if we can selectively only add the indicator for highlights
<seb128> mvo_, so you fix a typo to break all translations
<seb128> doesn't seem a good deal
<\sh> kenvandine, yepp...but parting channels from a proxy is not ok, too..but this could be a general design bug regarding connecting to irc services
<seb128> mvo_, well you trade an english typo against no translation
<seb128> but your call
<kenvandine> \sh, it doesn't part mine
<mvo_> seb128: now I sleep bad at night
<mvo_> seb128: I will unfuzzy manually
<\sh> kenvandine, hmmm...-ESTRANGE
 * \sh can't change irc proxies every day ;) but I could test it locally at home
<kenvandine> znc seemed to keep me joined
<kenvandine> perhaps it just ignores the clients request to part :)
<\sh> kenvandine, good point ;)
 * seb128 hugs mvo_
<\sh> am I wrong, or was the last upload/sync  of erlang during hardy time?
<seb128> mvo_, don't bother that's just a gconf description
<seb128> mvo_, to be fair none of those were translatable in jaunty and karmic
<seb128> mvo_, we tracked the bug a week ago, nobody noticed
<seb128> mvo_, or rather they were translatable but the gettext change were buggy so no translation
<mvo_> seb128: ha! ok
<asac> seb128: hah. found the bug i think ;)
<asac> preparing a polkit patch
<\sh> kenvandine, erlang source needs wxwidgets because of wxerlang, regarding some changelog entries of erlang
<seb128> asac, thanks
<davidbarth> asac: just a note to say that MacSlow is on your patch and integrates that now to deal with the gpm/nm icon naming issue
<seb128> I'm off for sport soon but I can test later
<\sh> erlang-wx is the result of all this
<asac> davidbarth: oh ... i wanted to submit a safer approach
<asac> with less potential for regressions
<asac> (not that its risky)
<kenvandine> \sh, yeah... but that means we need to move wx to main
<davidbarth> asac: there are some corner cases, but MacSlow spotted them and will have a test to catch that
<MacSlow> asac, I'm about to push a new branch updated to apply cleanly to notiyf-osd/karmic
<MacSlow> asac, sofar intended test-cases work as intended now
<MacSlow> asac, I've yet to put that through "make distcheck"
<asac> MacSlow: i ran both iirc
<asac> MacSlow: one second
<asac> let me tell you what improvement i wanted to resubmit
<asac> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~asac/notify-osd/theme-icon-prefix/revision/407
<asac> that was the patch
<asac> the idea was to use "notify-osd-" as the prefix
<asac> and
<asac> more important, dont put the _from_path logic in a separate function
<asac> but rather introduce _from_theme
<asac> in that way there is no contract change
<asac> so no regressions as we explicitly move those few calls to the new _from_theme function
<davidbarth> asac: we discussed with kwwii and want to stick to the notification-* prefix to keep things simple
<asac> davidbarth: MacSlow: ^^ ... if you want me to resubmit that branch
<asac> davidbarth: ok. though we need to reshuffle quite a lot
<davidbarth> asac: but that does not impact upstream keeping its naming convention
<asac> in the long run the notification- prefix should be a proper fdo namespace though ... so we should move to notify-osd- at some point
<asac> i dont care if that happens for this cycle or next :)
<asac> i just thought that you have all icons in names that are != PREFIX-upstream-name
<asac> so you have to rename all anyway
<davidbarth> asac: ie, gpm and nm can keep the same names, and we can have n-osd map that on the fly with specific icons if the names match (with the notification- prefix)
<asac> that was just my thought. reality can diverge - havent checked how well the current notification- names match upstream names
<asac> davidbarth: yes. my point was, that the notification- prefix is unlikely to match atm ... and you have to rename most notification- icons anyway
<asac> so you can directly use notifiy-osd- prefix
<davidbarth> asac: that's a different problem, but that we cannot remap on the fly without a translation table
<asac> which would be much cleaner and would keep the way open to get notification- namespace an official fdo thing
<davidbarth> asac: we cannot rename all our n-osd specific icons at this stage
<asac> davidbarth: right. you need links
<asac> so i say: create those links with notify-osd prefix
<asac> not notification- ... and then next cycle think about what to do in long run
<davidbarth> asac: do you have a list of the required links, ie the mismatches between icons that are not patched anymore (or that where never patched, but for which we had no particular icons)
<davidbarth> asac: ? ^^
<\sh> going home
<asac> davidbarth: i do not have that. but someone has to do that anyway ... not a notification- vs. notify-osd- issue
<asac> i think at this time in cycle we should pick the most important apps
<asac> and do it for those
<asac> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/0001-authority-g_object_ref-authority-when-returning-sing.patch
<asac> seb128: update again please ;)
<asac> that patch
<hyperair> does compiz randomly switch your windows' workspaces if you switch workspaces rapidly?
<hyperair> something like ctrl+alt+left<hold> or the other way
<Amaranth> hyperair: never seen that, no
<hyperair> Amaranth: could you try reproduce it?
<hyperair> 3x2 desktop wall layout
<Amaranth> hyperair: if I window wants your attention it may get pulled on to the current workspace
<Amaranth> s/I/a/
<hyperair> nono that's not what i meant
<hyperair> i've a terminal open
<hyperair> in the middle top workspace
<hyperair> i move to the lower row
<hyperair> and i hold down ctrl+alt+rightarrow
<hyperair> note that desktop wall's preview is enabled
<hyperair> after a while i notice my terminal shifts to the left or right
<hyperair> if i use ctrl+alt+up/down, my terminal shifts to the top or bottom
<hyperair> and back
<hyperair> strange behaviour
<hyperair> i just tried again with more windows
<hyperair> terminal on top left, firefox on top middle, dia on bottom middle. then i pressed ctrl+alt+up and held it.
<hyperair> i noticed that they flip rows together
<Amaranth> you have wraparound enabled then?
<hyperair> yes i have
<hyperair> does the issue not occur without?
<Amaranth> obviously not, you can't move enough :)
<hyperair> oh right
<hyperair> hahahah
<Amaranth> hyperair: The pager and the live preview sometimes show them moving but when I stop they didn't actually move
<hyperair> try again
<hyperair> if you stop at the correct time, it'll move =\
<hyperair> it really depends when you stop imo
<Amaranth> ah, I just got it to flip from top to bottom
<Amaranth> but I can't get it to flip horizontally
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> try putting a window on the top row
<hyperair> and going to the bottom row
<Amaranth> it only does it for a single viewport change somewhat randomly and when holding you're doing about 5 of those a second
<Amaranth> I did that
<hyperair> and then hold ctrl+alt+left/right
<Amaranth> I did that
<Amaranth> it only does it for a single viewport change somewhat randomly and when holding you're doing about 5 of those a second
<hyperair> 5 a sec?
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> seems to require more for me
<Amaranth> at least
<hyperair> ah
<Amaranth> well I just got it to flip them horizontally too
<hyperair> haha
<Amaranth> they were all on the bottom row and I was on the bottom row
<hyperair> i see
<Amaranth> when they're on top and I'm on bottom it doesn't happen
<hyperair> maybe i should just go back to using the cube for the time being =\
<Amaranth> file a bug but I'm not going to look into it for karmic
<hyperair> o noes
<Amaranth> Who uses live preview and wraparound? You and onestone :P
<hyperair> onestone?
<Amaranth> compiz developer, he added those features :P
<hyperair> ahahah
<hyperair> well i like wraparound
<hyperair> this way, i get to have one-key access to all workspaces in the same row
<Amaranth> Does it happen if you move slowly?
<hyperair> and at most two key accesses to workspaces on the lower row
<hyperair> no it doesn't
<hyperair> it doesn't happen unless i hold it down
<hyperair> i guess it's kinda minor then
<Amaranth> yeah
<Amaranth> something to fix but not something people are actually going to run into (99% of the time)
<hyperair> yeah
<hyperair> say, since compiz is moving to c++ maybe i should go dig in the code and take a look sometime
<hyperair> hahah
<hyperair> another thing for my already loaded todo list
<Amaranth> we won't have a C++ version in Ubuntu until 10.10
<hyperair> wow two releases down the road eh
<Amaranth> hyperair: yeah, unless they can guarantee 0.10.2 will be out before lucid
<hyperair> has it achieved feature parity yet?
<Amaranth> 0.9 is going to be a bumpy ride, 0.10 will almost certainly have regressions from 0.8.x (or be late)
<Amaranth> no
<hyperair> yowch
<Amaranth> still a few plugins missing
<hyperair> which ones?
<Amaranth> I think mainly cube, all plugins using cube, and group
<hyperair> heh?
<hyperair> does cube get ignored that much?
<Amaranth> The guy that was porting it got it supposedly done then disappeared
<hyperair> D=
<Amaranth> So no one else working on it waiting for him
<hyperair> what a waste!
<Amaranth> and compiz itself has been pretty much ignored from about february of this year until 2 months ago...
<hyperair> hmm
<Amaranth> everyone got busy
<hyperair> what will become of compiz once gnome-shell takes over, though?
<Amaranth> right now the hope is that it doesn't ;)
<Amaranth> gnome-shell is going to be pain on LTSP and such
<Amaranth> and nvidia and newer ati users will get a broken experience at least until they install proprietary drivers
<Amaranth> and I don't like the activities thing
<Amaranth> I used gnome-shell for a couple days, felt just as jarring at the end as the beginning
<hyperair> i agree
<hyperair> well i didn't use it for a couple of days
<hyperair> just one hour or so
<Amaranth> I do like what they're doing with zeitgeist integration though
<Amaranth> but there are only two things gnome-shell does that would need interaction between the WM and the panel like they claim
<Amaranth> and I don't think they even do the second one yet (or even plan to)
<hyperair> what are they?
<Amaranth> so only two things I can think of :)
<Amaranth> hyperair: the activities view and having their "app menu" have a force quit option when an app freezes
<Amaranth> since apps will have client side decorations if the app freezes you can't click the close button to force quit it but if the panel is the WM it can use the same functionality the decorations are using to add a force quit option to the app menu
<hyperair> hmmm
<hyperair> wait a sec. what client side decorations?
<Amaranth> bratsche is adding client side decorations to GTK+
<hyperair> also, the activities view is.. somewhat annoying
<hyperair> what are client side decorations exactly?
<hyperair> as in, window decorations no longer handled by window manager?
<Amaranth> hyperair: right now the WM draws the decorations (the title, close button, etc)
<Amaranth> right
<hyperair> that sounds like a bad idea to me.
<hyperair> an *extremely* bad idea
<Amaranth> so GTK+ could theme the decorations and such
<hyperair> hmm
<Amaranth> hyperair: I said as much when I talked into the UDS session about it when it was half over :)
<Amaranth> but they'd already discussed all my points and decided they weren't so bad
<hyperair> the last thing i want is my window decorations to hang along with my windows =.=
<Amaranth> afaik the current plan is to have an EWMH hint for where GTK+ is showing the close button so when the app locks up the WM can take over clicks for that button
<Amaranth> Windows has client side decorations but will draw them itself when the app freezes
<hyperair> i like being able to minimize my hung windows =\
<hyperair> i see
<Amaranth> so when iTunes freezes it suddenly grows a regular windows style decoration :)
<hyperair> that manner eh..
<hyperair> yes yes i noticed
<Amaranth> regular windows you can't even tell the difference though because it just draws over the client one
<hyperair> same goes for all office 07 things
<Amaranth> That's a very ugly solution though
<hyperair> agreed.
<Amaranth> our apps tend to freeze a lot
<hyperair> agreed.
<hyperair> especially liferea
<hyperair> liferea *always* freezes =.=
<Amaranth> We used to get a lot of compiz bugs filed because firefox would freeze the UI while doing IO
<hyperair> hmm firefox eh
<Amaranth> and sometimes firefox would from that point on stop responding to ping events so it would stay gray even though it worked
<hyperair> ouch
<hyperair> that sucks
<hyperair> huh come to think of it my windows don't gray out when they hang
<hyperair> O_o
<hyperair> where's the option for that?
<Amaranth> did you disable the fade plugin?
<hyperair> yeah
<Amaranth> don't do that :)
<hyperair> but it conflicts with animations
<Amaranth> I tried to tell people fade wasn't useless
<Amaranth> no it doesn't...
<hyperair> oh it doesn't?
 * hyperair tries to enable
<Amaranth> it used to conflict but that was fixed long ago
<hyperair> i see
<bratsche> I haven't worked on client-side-decorations recently, but I'm hoping to get back to it soon and finish it.
<bratsche> We talked about it at Boston Summit a bit.  There are still several things that need to be done.
<dobey> seb128: around?
<chrisccoulson> hey Amaranth - do you know what is causing issues like bug 452417?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452417 in compiz "'Minimize to tray' animation causes dialog to jump" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452417
<Amaranth> chrisccoulson: should be fixed in the 0.8.4 packages
<chrisccoulson> Amaranth - you rock:)
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<dashua> Amaranth, Any chance of ever getting "0" max waves for the magic lamp animation by default without hacking libanimation.so and animation.xml
<Amaranth> chrisccoulson: bug 444836 btw
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444836 in compiz "broken close animation when closing window with compiz activ (window moves)" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444836
<Amaranth> dashua: I don't like being sued by Apple so no
<dashua> Ha, good point :)
<chrisccoulson> excellent, thanks Amaranth
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you say that you could reliably trigger this screensaver crash yesterday?
<chrisccoulson> i can only trigger it occasionally which is a real pain for debugging
 * Amaranth stabs launchpad
<Amaranth> it may be my connection but launchpad seems to always stall
 * Amaranth reboots modem
<seb128> re
<seb128> dobey, now yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not really, but it took me 1 minute to trigger it 3 times in a row
<coderminus> how do I make task switcher show tasks from all workspaces?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks. i can trigger it occasionally but not when i really want to ;)
<dobey> seb128: hey. i was going to ask what all one needs to do to get an update into Karmic before release now. statik suggested i should talk to slangasek. should i just ping him?
<chrisccoulson> i think i know what's going on now anyway
<Amaranth_> yeah, that's great freenode and xchat-gnome, I can totally lag for 15 minutes without being disconnected
<dobey> heh
<dobey> not even a ping timeout
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh?
<seb128> dobey, bug fixes are fine if those are really issues to fix for karmic
<seb128> dobey, what change do you want to get there?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - the gnome-screensaver-dialog exits after the 5th login attempt whilst the gnome-screensaver process is still shaking it, and that can cause it to access resources that have already been destroyed
<chrisccoulson> at least that's what i seem to be seeing in xtrace
<dobey> seb128: just landed a critical fix in trunk (that i need to backport to stable branch). i was just wondering about the process right now
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> dobey, the process is upload and wait to get approval
<seb128> ie I'm fine sponsoring a bug fix for you
<dobey> seb128: and nominate the bugs for karmic?
<seb128> then it needs to be accepted, ie pitti or slangasek will review it
<seb128> well theorically only karmic blocker bugs should justify uploads now
<seb128> ie you think you have a bug to fix that should be fixed in karmic prepare the update
<seb128> you can backport the fix to current karmic package
<seb128> no need to roll a new tarball
<seb128> then find a sponsor and wait for r-t to approve the upload
<dobey> well, i'd rather avoid sticking patches in stuff we maintain. it's a bit messy
<seb128> why?
<dobey> so new tarball is actually easier, but if the standard process is ship as patches, i can work to get that done
<seb128> ie should just be applying a bzr commit to the source
<seb128> well the less change the easier to review
<seb128> can you bzr merge the commit to the packaging bzr there?
<seb128> and build
<seb128> the change will go in the diff.gz
<dobey> well for one, we pull the debian dir from the same bzr tree for building PPA packages, to minimize differences between PPA and downstream packages
<dobey> the source pkg branch isn't based off the trunk tree, no. it's tarball contents + debian dir
<seb128> ok
<seb128> whatever is easier
<dobey> ok
<seb128> if you don't have other changes that the one you need
<seb128> just roll a new tarball
<seb128> it's not always the case
<dobey> don't i know it
<dobey> but i wanted to make sure of the process at this point in the cycle first
<seb128> ok
<seb128> distro guy will usually backport the change
<seb128> ie add the bzr diff -c rev to the patches dir
<seb128> but a new tarball with only bug fixes is fine too
<dobey> i'll bug people on ubuntuone team, to make sure what we need to get in
<seb128> we will get GNOME 2.28.1 on monday
<dobey> seb128: i've branched our code for stable releases, so only bug fixes will go on that branch
<seb128> so you still have some margin, but having your upload ready before weekend would be nice though
<dobey> seb128: yeah, i plan to get it done tomorrow
<dobey> seb128: and we're working to have people on our team become ubuntu developers. so we're trying to maintain package branches, and such, to work on getting those credentials :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I get try a patch if you want though
<seb128> re
<seb128> asac, the policykit fix is working
<seb128> tedg, is that normal that pidgin is not listed in my indicator?
<tedg> tedg: No, it shouldn't be unless you disable the libnotify plugin.  If you disable it, it'll put itself in the blacklist.
<tedg> seb128: ^
<tedg> :)
<tedg> seb128: Do an ls ~/.config/indicators/messages/application-blacklist
<seb128> it's there
<tedg> Did you disable the plugin?
<seb128> weird
<seb128> no
<tedg> Hmm, what's the timestamp on the file?
<seb128> 9 minutes ago
<seb128> weird
<seb128> I will keep looking for it
<tedg> Hmm, okay.
<seb128> I think I did play with the option to show the notification area icon though
<seb128> hum, no, that was in a guest user session
<tedg> It does a timeout to see if you don't have it enabled at startup.  Like if it gets loaded, but is not configured (for things like sysadmins changing the default).  That could be over-sensitve perhaps.
<seb128> how does the timeout thing works?
<tedg> I haven't seen it go off though.
 * tedg looks to be sure before replying :)
<tedg> seb128: yeah, it adds a 30 second timeout when the plugin gets pulled in.  If the plugin isn't init'd in that time it assumes that it won't be.
<tedg> Does it take longer than 30 seconds for Pidgin to load on your machine?
<seb128> no, but I might have started and closed pidgin immediatly
<seb128> since I decided to run empathy today
<seb128> could that trigger your code?
<tedg> I don't think so...  I don't think that'd force a timer to run.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> well, what does start the timer?
<seb128> I did start pidgin
<seb128> and close it, ie there was a few seconds between run and close
<seb128> so maybe it did start registration but exited before
<tedg> When it pulls in the .so it runs a small registration.  That starts the timer.
<seb128> ok, let's not bother
<seb128> I will ping you back if I find what trigger the change
<tedg> Okay, the mainloops don't say anything about it.  They say that things that are already dispatched should run, but it shouldn't have been dispatched.
<tedg> (the docs that is)
<Amaranth> tedg: evalMatch in compiz is to check which windows the user wants to skip focus stealing prevention completely, btw
<Amaranth> not important for what you're looking at
<tedg> Amaranth: Ah, okay.  It was just the first function, so I started digging :)
<Amaranth> tedg: there is really only one part of it should worry about, the XSERVER_WHATEVER macro
 * Amaranth forgets the name
<tedg> Amaranth: Yeah, but for a lot of apps the fact that it's calling "onCurrentDesktop" will probably block things first :(
<Amaranth> tedg: perhaps
<Amaranth> tedg: except you mean the viewport check since we don't use desktops :)
<TheMuso> awe: I will get to your merge proposal once I'm through my morning's email log. I agre its worth forcing it off people's systems for now. Good thing is that for lucid, this can go away as the kernel as of 2.6.32 will have the bits we need.
<Amaranth> tedg: but gtk_window_present should move it to the current viewport as well, iirc
<awe> TheMuso, np
<tedg> Amaranth: I think it only does if no window is focused on the current viewport.
<Amaranth> tedg: that's where gtk_window_present_with_time comes in :)
<Amaranth> tedg: and the macro bit I was talking about
<awe> TheMuso, fyi, I did a release commit as I haven't had many uploads sponsored lately, and I need to get my MOTU one of these days...
<Amaranth> tedg: you could just make the time in the future instead of changing the dbus interfaces
<awe> TheMuso, that said, feel free to re-do that part if you want
<Amaranth> tedg: so long as the time in the future part is only used when the indicator applet is opening the window and not when you get a new message
<tedg> Amaranth: Seems like it'd protect against that, no?
<TheMuso> awe: Ok thanks for the heads up.
<awe> anytime!
<Amaranth> tedg: actually setting time to zero should work
<Amaranth> tedg: since we use low level instead or normal
<Amaranth> s/or/of/
<tedg> Amaranth: Hmm, okay.  Zero is *really* easy to figure out :)
<Amaranth> tedg: see the comment on line 5075 of that file
<Amaranth> 0 will pass the !timestamp check so you'll end up there
<rickspencer3> akgraner, hi, what was your question?
<tedg> Amaranth: Hmm, wouldn't that lead to returning CompFocusPrevent, which would be 1?
<akgraner> rickspencer3, I upgraded to Karmic on the machine I use everyday..  It is my understanding that the old notifier (the one with the orange burst and the red arrow) won't work anymore is that true?
<Amaranth> tedg: the function is named isWindowFocusAllowed
<rickspencer3> orange burst, and red arrow, not sure what you mean exactly?
<Amaranth> tedg: returning TRUE is good :)
<akgraner> the update notifier
<rickspencer3> aah
<Amaranth> tedg: you're looking at the function below that
<tedg> Amaranth: Ah, okay.
<rickspencer3> akgraner, this was turned off in Jaunty, though I think there is "secret" setting that you can use to bring it back
<Amaranth> tedg: oh, crap
<Amaranth> but you're right
<akgraner> yeah..I had that..
<Amaranth> when did that change? :/
<akgraner> wrote a post on it...:-)
<rickspencer3> so the secret setting is gone now
<rickspencer3> ?
<Amaranth> tedg: I guess it's time to use MAXINT or so :)
<tedg> Amaranth: I *really* want it, I'll use MAXINT + 1 ;)
<akgraner> rickspencer3, let me try it now that I upgraded.. ..  I just wanted to make sure it wasn't going to break something, b/c I was told a few months ago I wouldn't be able to do that anymore...
<akgraner> I thought you would know..:-)
<akgraner> I'll go away and let you know if it works or not..:-)
<Amaranth> hmm, is there a MAXINT32?
<rickspencer3> akgraner, sorry to be dense, but I'm still not 100% clear what you are asking
<Amaranth> because you don't want a 64-bit one since the X protocol is always 32-bit
<tedg> Amaranth: There is a G_MAXINT32
<rickspencer3> are you asking if something will break if you try the gconf key to make your old behavior?
<Amaranth> there you go
<akgraner> rickspencer3, you aren't dense...  I'm just not technical... let me try to put it back (I should have done that before I asked)... :-(
<rickspencer3> akgraner, it's not you, it's me
<rickspencer3> I don't think anything bad will happen if you try
<akgraner> rickspencer3, dang it sounds like a breakup now...:-)
<rickspencer3> but mvo may have made it not work anymore
<rickspencer3> lol
<chrisccoulson> akgraner - /apps/update-notifier/auto_launch ?
 * rickspencer3 is glad pgraner is not here
<rickspencer3> oops
<pgraner> rickspencer3: I am
<pgraner> rickspencer3: you can have her, but you get the bills AND the kids
<rickspencer3> :)
<akgraner> rickspencer3, let me go try this and I will let you know.. well if you want to know that is
<rickspencer3> akgraner, I want to know
<rickspencer3> thanks
<akgraner> if it breaks I'm blaming the kernel guy.. and I'll launch my computer at him  :-)
<chrisccoulson> it's still possible to enable the pre-jaunty behaviour for update-notifier
<chrisccoulson> thankfully ;)
 * tedg is so happy that icon is gone.  And wishes he could remember how to disable the apport one too.
<akgraner> rickspencer3, ok it didn't break anything...:-)
<rickspencer3> hehe
<rickspencer3> akgraner, ok, that's step 1
<rickspencer3> step2 is that it works
 * rickspencer3 bets it does
<akgraner> :-)  sorry I bugged you.. why do I listen to people without just trying something 1st... :-/
<akgraner> Nothing is broken for long and it's all fixable..:-)  you all rock!!:-)
 * akgraner goes away now...
<rickspencer3> akgraner, it's not bugging me
<rickspencer3> I hope I didn;t seem annoyed
<akgraner> no not at all..
<chrisccoulson> tedg - i must be the opposite to you then ;)
<tedg> chrisccoulson: Heh, you're my evil twin! ;)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<tedg> Anyway, need to run.  Have a good night folks!
<rickspencer3> bye tedg
 * rickspencer3 can't figure out how to hide a gtk window in c :(
 * rickspencer3 dons tall pointed cap
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, gtk_widget_hide ?
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> can I cast my window pointer to a widget pointer?
 * rickspencer3 tries
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yes
<rickspencer3> man this takes me back
<robert_ancell> :)
<seb128> hey robert_ancell
<seb128> robert_ancell, I didn't upload your gvfs and rhythmbox changes
<seb128> those are non trivial and we are frozen for karmic now
<robert_ancell> seb128, :( I hoped I got them in on time...
<robert_ancell> they work really well...
<Amaranth> rickspencer3: GTK_WIDGET(window) is the proper way to do it
<seb128> you think it's worth having for karmic?
<seb128> robert_ancell, is that an issue with any podcast?
<Amaranth> or is it GTKWIDGET?
 * Amaranth fails too
<robert_ancell> seb128, it depends on the podcast but I think a lot of big names use a particular service to serve their podcasts and one of those servers has the problem
<robert_ancell> pheedo.com is the service, and the example is Scientific American which I expect a number of people subscribe to
<robert_ancell> I think Banshee had the same problem when I checked
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, I will upload and let the other guys (slangasek and pitti) decide
<seb128> since they are the one reviewing the uploads
<robert_ancell> seb128, cool, thanks
<seb128> you're welcome
<seb128> otherwise I think we are good for karmic
<robert_ancell> did the printing issues get resolved?
<seb128> I didn't spot real issue to bounce your way yesterday or today
<seb128> I did upload the git change undo
<seb128> did you read my summary on the bug?
<robert_ancell> not yet
<seb128> the pdf is generated by cairo
<robert_ancell> you stole my bug, sniff. ;)
<seb128> but works fine in acroread and evince
<dtchen> awe: have you uploaded this change to the archive?
<seb128> robert_ancell, I'm sorry, but I can give you a new one if you want ;-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, anyway the pdf is valid for cairo guys since it works fine in viewer and they don't have other validators
<robert_ancell> seb128, no it's freeze time now, I *can't* have any more :)
<rickspencer3> riiiight
<seb128> robert_ancell, you wish
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, back to widget hiding! Nothing to see here
<awe> dtchen: no.  i created a bzr branch and proposed a merge request, but i'm not core-dev, so i need someone to sponsor.
 * rickspencer3 pictures robert_ancell sitting in a rocking chair, smoking a pipe
<bryce_> heh
<seb128> robert_ancell, I assigned another podcast issue for you if you want to look at it, an user claiming it file to download podcasts with identic names
<awe> TheMuso, said he'd take a look as soon in a bit
<dtchen> awe: ok, 'cause Luke usually requests that we not actually put karmic in the distribution (debian/changelog)
<awe> s/as soon in a bit/soon/
<dtchen> awe: UNRELEASED, usually
<robert_ancell> seb128, ah, I was thinking about that when in the code, I think it saves it locally using the basename not the full path
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'm not suprised if that fails
<awe> dtchen: yea, i wasn't sure about that... but also gave him a heads up
<dtchen> awe: i need to roll in another patch, so i was wondering why it was marked karmic ;)
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, good, so you are welcome to fix that too if you want ;-)
<awe> dtchen: my bad...  ;(
<dtchen> awe: no prob
<robert_ancell> seb128, so those sorts of fixes - do we patch the stable uploads or only allow them if we convince upstream to put them in 2.28.1?
<seb128> robert_ancell, we patch
<robert_ancell_> wow, upstreams can be pedantic... I was told off for not providing a git formatted patch.  The patch only inserted a single '!'
<Laney> git patches provide the metadata they need to merge it in properly
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i always submit git formatted patches now
<chrisccoulson> no matter how trivial ;)
<robert_ancell_> yeah, but one character?  I would have expected them to insert the character manually
<Laney> audit trail :)
<robert_ancell_> ok, I will be less lazy in the future :)
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell_ - in my job, you'd need to go get approval from a dozen other people and have several reviews over a few weeks before making a change as big as that ;)
<robert_ancell_> chrisccoulson, you remind me of the reason I stopped working for a government department :)
<chrisccoulson> heh. i don't work for a government department though ;)
<chrisccoulson> i work in automotive, which is probably worse!
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<seb128> robert_ancell_, by upstream you mean bastien I guess?
<robert_ancell_> seb128, yup
<TheMuso> If an upstream uses git, I love submitting git formatted patches, to get correct attribution. :)
<TheMuso> Or more to the point, to make sure attribution is given.
<seb128> he can be somewhat rude in his comment sometimes yes
<robert_ancell_> chrisccoulson, oh, yes I have heard stories from automotive :)
<TheMuso> correctly
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i've had to suffer working in aerospace too ;)
<chrisccoulson> they're both as bad as each other!
<robert_ancell_> chrisccoulson, I was just going to say they're one step from aerospace, you love punishment!
<chrisccoulson> maybe i'll work for the government next then;)
<robert_ancell_> chrisccoulson, I know people who've done medical - that sounds just as bad
<seb128> robert_ancell_, the work is not the char change it's to write the commit message with credit for you etc ;-)
<robert_ancell_> chrisccoulson, I did mostly telco so that was easier
<chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - i was looking at some medical electronics jobs as my next career move ;)
<TheMuso> awe, dtchen. I am about to take care of the merge proposal now.
<chrisccoulson> maybe i should give it a miss
<robert_ancell_> chrisccoulson, the great thing about the government is you go through all that effort to get approved then they'll probably just can the project when the next government gets voted in
<robert_ancell_> seb128, yeah, I'm happy to waive credit for a trivial bug :)
<chrisccoulson> lol, yeah, i can imagine that happening here
<awe> TheMuso, cool
<awe> TheMuso, sorry about the release commit...
<TheMuso> awe: re the karmic release commit, I don't need to merge that, so all is well.
<awe> cool
<dtchen> TheMuso: i have one pending commit; shall i wait on your push?
<TheMuso> dtchen: Sure.
<dtchen> (ok, waiting)
<dtchen> awe: do we really intend to Conflict all versions greater than or equal to rtkit?
<rickspencer3> robert_ancell http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/449582
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449582 in pulseaudio "Hideous BEEP on new email" [Undecided,New]
<rickspencer3> care to take a look today?
<TheMuso> dtchen: pushing now
<dtchen> awe: i.e., i'm thinking it's better to do something like <= 0.4-0ubuntu2
<TheMuso> dtchen: pushed
<awe> dtchen: yea, that probably makes more sense...
<dtchen> awe: i suppose in the end it doesn't really matter, since arguably one could just remove the conflicts from PA
<awe> dtchen: right...that's what i was thinking
<awe> dtchen: that way we make the change in lockstep
<awe> ...and make sure to get it right for lucid.  ;)
<awe> kernel & all
<TheMuso> I'm actually hoping we can possibly get jack to play nice with rtkit for lucid. Now that would be awesome.
<awe> +10
<TheMuso> Have rtkit be responsible for realtime app performance.
<robert_ancell_> hey, I have one more Google Wave invitation, anyone want it?
<TheMuso> If its all web based, I'll pass, thanks anyway. :)
<awe> robert_ancell_, is it worth it?
<robert_ancell_> awe, it's interesting to play with, needs a lot of work before it is really useful
<awe> i've heard it's amusing, but nobody really knows what to do with it...
<robert_ancell_> sounds like an apt summary
 * TheMuso is not convinced that everything being web based is the way forward.
<awe> yea, i guess i'll pass too.  i have more than enough to keep me busy. ; )
<robert_ancell_> TheMuso, google is :)
<TheMuso> robert_ancell_: Yes but if its all web based, I am not going to be won over. Web content is becoming even more of a pain for people like myself than ever.
<awe> TheMuso, hey, meant to ask you... are there any instructions posted anywhere on how to enable jack on top of karmic right now ( ie. if I want to play with ardour )?
<seb128> good night everybody
<TheMuso> awe: Not so far as I know, other than how its been done in the past. Load qjackctl, start jack, start ardour, connect jack prts etc.
<robert_ancell_> TheMuso, there must be some progress being made on a11y for web right?
<robert_ancell_> seb128, night
<TheMuso> robert_ancell_: Yes there is, but if others think like I do, its often more efficient to have a well written client app than use a website that can be hard to get around, even if designed well.
<awe> TheMuso, are there any pulse bits I need to tweak?  I recall hearing that there's a jack plugin that detects jack and release the default ASLA dev?
<TheMuso> awe: Qjackctl should suspend pulse activity on the sound hardware while jack is running. Other than that, the only other way for pulse to relinquish the audi ohardware is for jack to communicate via dbus, which is not set up in karmic. I would like to get jack2 and have that set up for lucid however.
<dtchen> TheMuso: thanks, pushed
<awe> ok, thanks for the explanation...
<TheMuso> awe: np
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-16
<TheMuso> dtchen: ok got your changes, will pull them in and upload.
<dtchen> TheMuso: thanks!
<TheMuso> Hrm. Is it a known bug that one can simply eject a DVD/CD using the button on the drive, and the icon remain on the desktop?
<TheMuso> In the past, I have had to sometimes kill processes in order to let the system eject the drive.
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
<didrocks> (6 years of German and 2 words remaining :/)
<pitti> bonjour didrocks!
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hey tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, have you seen my mails?
<pitti> tkamppeter: FYI, I uploaded a cups without fail-on-testfail last night, so that we at least get the other fixes into the archive
<pitti> tkamppeter: just one mail, yes
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is now about s-c-p.
<tkamppeter> pitti, yes, it was only one.
<pitti> tkamppeter: please just upload it, so that it's in the queue for review
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is already.
<pitti> ah, nice
<tkamppeter> pitti, this hpcups is really broken and if we leave s-c-p using it by default we will get a lot of complaints of HP printer users.
<pitti> tkamppeter: until when did it prefer the hpijs backend?
<pitti> Amaranth: hm, that new compiz upload is pretty intrusive; the other packages around it look okay, and I accepted them (reviewing -gconf now)
<tkamppeter> pitti, in Jaunty there was only an hpijs backend.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I made s-c-p prefering hpcups somewhere in the middle of the Karmic cycle.
<tkamppeter> pitti, then users started complaining but I hoped that HP could perhaps give me one or another patch.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ok, thanks
<tkamppeter> pitti, I made the decision to switch back to HPIJS somewhere last week and modified HPLIP appropriately, but totally forgot s-c-p.
<pitti> Amaranth: why does compiz remove the gconf backend? this looks like a very intrusive change to me?
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<pitti> Amaranth: I asked in bug 439287; can you please reply in the bug, to have a record of the discussion for Steve as well?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439287 in compiz "gnome shortcuts not restored with session" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439287
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<pitti> pretty good, unlike the past two nights I really slept well last night
<pitti> how about you?
<chrisccoulson> i had quite a late night last night ;)
<pitti> I just found I couldn't/shouldn't do that three times in a row, so I went to bed early
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i might get an early night tonight
<chrisccoulson> unless i can pick another RC bug to work on ;)
<chrisccoulson> then it might end up being a late night again!
<chrisccoulson> but at least it is saturday tomorrow ;)
<pitti> RC bugs> well, 40 to go :)
<pitti> well, 31 really, 9 are "fix committed"
<pitti> ps aux|grep splash
<pitti> ps ux
<pitti> sudo usplash --pulse-logo
<chrisccoulson> i'll have a look at the remaining RC bugs later and see if there are any i'm capable of fixing ;)
<chrisccoulson> i'm wondering if the reporter of bug 452804 is actually being serious or not
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452804 in terminal ""sudo chown -R name:name /*" " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452804
<chrisccoulson> pitti - did you have focus on the wrong window? ;)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: meh, what happened? I started usplash, forgot -c, and my X fell over
<pitti> had to reboot
<pitti> chrisccoulson: did usplash pour some goo into IRC?
<chrisccoulson> (8:49:46 AM) pitti: ps aux|grep splash
<chrisccoulson> (8:49:47 AM) pitti: ps ux
<pitti> eww, I typed those into VT1
<pitti> chrisccoulson: did it also echo my password?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - no, it didn't echo the password
<pitti> of course you would say that!
<pitti> :-)
<pitti> thanks
<dpm> pitti, here's the request I'm going to file -> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d75991fb8. A question about the dates mentioned there: which one do you think would work best for the release team while ensuring that translations are still in the LiveCD?
<seb128> hello there
<asac> hi seb128
<seb128> hey asac
<asac> thx for your polkit confirm
<seb128> thank you for the quick fixing!
<asac> ;)
<seb128> brb another session restart after upgrade
<asac> oh
<asac> that reminds me that my only used user disappeared from the gdm login screen here ;)
<seb128> re
<seb128> karmic looks great ;-)
<seb128> asac, you have a normal user not listed?
<asac> seb128: yes. my "asac" user is gone here ;)
<asac> but i have a special setup. for years i am using 501 as uid
<seb128> asac, what uid has it?
<asac> so i assume that you filteered that out
<seb128> we filter on < 1000 now
<asac> please allow 500+ ;)
<seb128> 500-1000 are system users
<seb128> or 500-999
<seb128> rather
<asac> well. my user is that and i have that for 10 years ;)
<seb128> you can probably do "other" and type the name?
<asac> yes. but thats a mess
<asac> you dont want to tell me that i cannot select my user now?
<seb128> I don't want to but ...
<asac> < 500 is good
<asac> i have 501
<seb128> we got bugs complaining that system users were listed
<asac> and i am sure it was a "normal" user account at some point
<seb128> it's easy to change back, I've no strong opinion
<asac> i just think that someone smart thought that things should now start with 1000 (probably 6 years ago)
<seb128> bug  #427462
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427462 in gdm "login screen is showing user below 1000" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427462
<asac> "By convention, user IDs below 500 are reserved for system users. ... In"
<asac> http://joomlapack.net/help-support-documentation/joomlapack-2x-documentation/siteadminintro-concepts.html
<seb128> "100-999:
<asac> just a random hit i get on google when typing: "system user 500"
<seb128>     Dynamically allocated system users and groups. Packages which need a user or group, but can have this user or group allocated dynamically and differently on each system, should use adduser --system to create the group and/or user. adduser will check for the existence of the user or group, and if necessary choose an unused id based on the ranges specified in adduser.conf.
<seb128> "
<seb128> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html
<asac> yes. thats debian
<asac> maybe even linux
<seb128> well, we follow debian there
<asac> i am sure the general unix convention is 500
<asac> right
<asac> anyway. 500 is the right number. ;)
<seb128> in one case we lists user we should not
<asac> no
<asac> i am sure debian has no system users > 500
<seb128> in the other case we break people who manage to use a non standard debian uid
<asac> yes. debian standard < unix standard imo
<asac> look in your passwd
<asac> do you see anything below 500 ;)
<seb128> not if the change result to have random system users in the list
<asac> err 500-1000 that is system user?
<seb128> I've the sabayon one which was listed there
<asac> as 500?
<seb128> no, 9nn
<asac> seb128: i think we should rather check if the user has a login-shell
<seb128> but maybe that's a sabayon bug
<seb128> asac, patches are welcome
<asac> and if it allows login
<seb128> feel free to do the change
<asac> like: pulse:x
<seb128> we just did it because people complained about having system users listed
<asac> seb128: before there was no check?
<seb128> it was checking uid > 500
<seb128> we changed to > 1000
<asac> hah
<seb128> since that's what the debian policy documents
<asac> so someone had some sense of reasonability ;)
<asac> > 500
<asac> thats the right way.
<seb128> and people had issues with users in 500-999
<seb128> well tell it to users who complained
<asac> yeah i see
<asac> i complain too
<asac> those users are neglectable ;)
<seb128> lol
<asac> just kidding
<seb128> you don't follow the policy
<asac> but i think its worse to not show a user
<seb128> I would say you are wrong
<asac> than showing a few exceptional system users
<seb128> change your uid to be > 1000
<creatorzero> hi
<asac> i think those folks should rather file bugs on them
<asac> seb128: i am not wrong. i have that user id for 10 years
<seb128> well I didn't think anybody would have normal users with uid < 1000
<asac> and > 500 is the de-factor standard ;)
<seb128> clearly that was wrong, there is one of those in the world
<seb128> and he's there ;-)
<asac> everyone having old installs probably has that
<seb128> asac, 10 years is before ubuntu
<asac> yes.
<seb128> I don't think ubuntu created normal users with uid < 1000
<asac> i kept the id because its easier for nfs etc.
<asac> its _my_ id ... ;)
<seb128> I would argue that we don't support upgrades from non ubuntu distros ;-)
<asac> thats annoying
<asac> still
<asac> i dont log in regularly ... but ;)
<seb128> you can enter your username in "other"
<seb128> but right
<asac> yeah. and that sucks
<seb128> as said I didn't think anybody would get login broken due to that
<creatorzero> i have got an acer aspire 5720 , ubuntu 9.04 installed with ati video driver enabled..when i'm watching a video like and mpg video and i made a double click to go fullscreen the screen become dark and i'm not able to do anything i need to restart manually the notebook..anyone can help me?thanks
<asac> i think whoever did the > 500 was  good guy and had some decent knowledge about unix
<seb128> you can undo the change if you want
<asac> seb128: do you have the bug?
<seb128> we can try to find an another way for the filtering based on bugs
<asac> i want to check whats up there before saying i want to back this out
<seb128> asac,  bug  #427462
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427462 in gdm "login screen is showing user below 1000" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427462
<seb128> asac,  bug  #427462
<seb128> ups
<seb128> asac, see r137 and r142
<asac> r?
<asac> in svn?
<asac> ah bzr
<seb128> no, bzr
 * asac slow this morning
<seb128> it's just 2 defines you want to change back
<seb128> creatorzero, hi, try #ubuntu for user questions
<creatorzero> thanks
<asac> seb128: is that thing that decides that running as root?
<seb128> asac, I don't understand the question
<seb128> what thing? running what?
<asac> seb128: nevermind. i wondered if gdm is running as root ... and if gdm is the process that actually decides on the UID
<seb128> I think it's the greeter in this case
<seb128> it runs as gdm user
<seb128> and gdmsetup has logic for that too
<asac> i dont understand who designed the code view thing in launchpad
<seb128> to list users who can autologin
<asac> but isnt it obvious that i want to go to the files referred to ;)?
<asac> it doesnt do that ... just expands/collapses the diffs
<asac> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gdm/ubuntu/revision/137#debian/patches/16_gdmserver_user_manager.patch
<seb128> well we don't have the code in bzr
<seb128> only the debian dir
<asac> yes. but you have the patch
<asac> i just wanted to navigate to the full patch
<seb128> right
<asac> oh
<asac> that thing is a huge patch
<asac> so that user_manager feature is ubuntu only?
<seb128> gdmsetup is
<seb128> the login screen one is r142
<asac> kk ... thx
<asac> ok i think i know how to properly do the system user test ... but only if running as root
<asac> will take a stab at it when i find a minute ;)
<asac> seb128: gdmsetup and the other gdm thing both run as root, right?
<seb128> the greeter is running as gdm user
<seb128> no
<seb128> gdmsetup runs as user
<seb128> and use polkit to get rights
<seb128> the greeter runs as gdm
<asac> it gets rights to write /etc/gdm/gdm.conf?
<seb128> don't bother too much, change back to 1000
<asac> no its ok
<seb128> the greeter doesn't write anything
<asac> i will keep it the current way
<seb128> the greeter talk to the server to write changes
<asac> which server is that?
<seb128> but I think that the "what users to list" is purely a greeter thing
<seb128> gdm
<asac> ah ... greeter server
<asac> seb128: what exactly does the gdmsetup part do?
<seb128> gdmsetup talks to the gdm server to write the gdm.conf changes
<seb128> ie it allow you to select an user to autolog
<asac> ok
<asac> thx
<asac> good thing to fix for lucid ;) unless i get bored on weekend
<seb128> ie gdmsetup is a simple thing, it handle all the actual work to the server
<seb128> using dbus and polkit to get rights basically
<seb128> and giving order over the bus
<asac> yeah
<asac> seb128: can you confirm that the patch fixes it in bug 438574 ... helps release teeam to allow the upload in ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438574 in policykit-1 "NetworkManager crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438574
<asac> i will wait a bit if davidz has some comments etc. but otherwise would upload later today
<asac> hmm. didnt you have a bug on your own?
<seb128> asac, no, I looked for bugs matching my stacktrace before filling and found 2
<seb128> I figured I didn"t need to file a duplicate
<asac> kk.
<seb128> asac, commented on the bug now
<asac> thx
<seb128> asac, you might want to just upload, davidz will not be online before some 5 hours anyway which will be late for you today
<asac> true
<chrisccoulson> hello seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> your work week is over?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, not too bad thanks. a bit tired though. you?
<chrisccoulson> my work week is over in 2 hours ;)
<pitti> dpm: mentioned in the bug
<dpm> pitti, I've just seen it, thanks a lot!
<baptistemm> heya
<chrisccoulson> hey baptistemm
<baptistemm> hey chrisccoulson
<asac> uploaded polkit
<asac> we also had a second variant of that crash ... also fixed
<baptistemm> hi asac
<asac> baptistemm: hi
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - i wrote a patch for the screensaver issue last night. kees said he was going to sponsor it at some point, but i don't know if you're interested in testing it too? i tested it for 20 minutes or so last night (continuously entering my password incorrectly) and i couldn't make it crash with the patch, but i'm not sure if i was just unlucky ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I will give it a try but not now I'm about to go for lunch
<chrisccoulson> ok, no worries
<chrisccoulson> the change is in bzr anyway
<pitti> hey seb128
<pitti> could someone please ty something for me?
<pitti> cd /tmp; couchdb
<pitti> and see if it crashes ("Crash dump was written to: erl_crash.dump")
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> Crash dump was written to: erl_crash.dump
<seb128> pitti, ^
<pitti> seb128: \o/ thanks
<pitti> that means I didn't break it
<seb128> pitti, is that a good thing?
<seb128> oh ok
<pitti> seb128: I changed erlang to build with wxwidgets
<pitti> and with my version I still get a running couchdb
<seb128> pitti, doesn't that mean that wwidgets needs to be promoted now?
<seb128> do we really need that?
<pitti> seb128: sorry, "without"
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: bug 438365
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438365 in erlang "erlang should not depend on wxwidgets2.8" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/438365
<pitti> wxwidgets is currently in component-mismatches, but we don't want it in main
<seb128> right
<Amaranth> pitti: all the compiz changes were done by one person, reviewed by another, and tested by me (and them of course)
<pitti> Amaranth: my primary concern is the removal of the gconf backend, I asked in the bug
<Amaranth> pitti: you're not subscribed to the bug though :)
<seb128> pitti, btw robert_ancell argued for the podcast changes so I uploaded
<Amaranth> oh, release team is
<seb128> pitti, he said that some of the major distributors website will not work without those
<pitti> Amaranth: I thought I sub'ed ubuntu-release
<seb128> pitti, since the code is pretty specific to podcasts anyway it should be ok
<seb128> pitti, but feel free to review as you want ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I was going to ask him about that, but this is fairly intrusive, and the patches weren't acked upstream yet either
<seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
<pitti> I'll have another look later
<seb128> pitti, the gvfs one has been commited today slightly changed
<seb128> pitti, I tend to trust robert_ancell code wise
<seb128> he has been good work
<seb128> anyway lunch time
<seb128> bbl
<pitti> seb128: do we need the changes that upstream did?
<Amaranth> pitti: ok, commented
<mac_v> mpt: hi... volume mute/ volume=0 bug > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598459#c9   , i think the dev is looking for some design suggestions..  [i'm not sure what to infer from last comment]
<ubottu> Gnome bug 598459 in gnome-volume-control "the mute icon is used when the volume is set to 0 but not muted" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<mpt> mvo, next week I will start revising the SoftwareCenter spec for v2. Is there any reason for us to archive the 1.0 spec, or should I just overwrite it?
<mpt> mac_v, I don't have anything more to say there than what you've already said (and what I said in the comment you inked to)
<mpt> +l
<mac_v> ;)  well.. i dont know what to comment either.. so probably the icon wont change :/
<Ng> WARNING: Unhandled message: interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable, path=/, member=Introspect
<Ng> what's that likely to be from?
<mac_v> Ng: hi , is the gpm-mouse icon fixed now? i couldnt test it from my end :)
<Ng> mac_v: yes thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> Ng - no idea, that could come from absolutely anything
<mac_v> cool :)
<Ng> mac_v: I like the red hinting on the empty one :)
<pitti> Amaranth: replied
<mac_v> Ng: thanks :)
<Ng> chrisccoulson: I'm trying out a newer bash-completion and I get it with every tab when doing scp, and I googled for it and there's a bug about vinagre saying it. Is it things assuming a newer/older dbus?
<mvo> mpt: cool. there is no reason to keep the old stuff, my gut feeling is still to keep a copy of the 1.0 state, but I don't have any use-case or reason (other than that its cool to have backups)
<Amaranth> pitti: and back :)
<Amaranth> or not, stupid ISP/launchpad
<chrisccoulson> Ng - it generally isn't anything to worry about. it just means that an application received a org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable.Introspect message, but it doesn't support introspection
<mpt> mvo, ok, I'll save it as "Web Page, Complete" and as ?action=raw, and let Canonical backup handle it :-)
<Ng> chrisccoulson: if it was just graphical apps I'd be fine with it, but it's quite annoying when it's spamming your terminals, and preventing you getting bash_completion's scp hook fixed for karmic ;)
<Amaranth> *sigh*
<Amaranth> Ok, not going to be commenting any time soon
<pitti> Amaranth: just tell me here :)
<pitti> Amaranth: is there a chance that some users actually use the gconf backend?
<Amaranth> pitti: the only way to use the gconf plugin has been to edit /usr/bin/compiz
<Amaranth> pitti: and none of the settings tools work when the gconf plugin is being used (they end up switching you back to the ccp plugin)
<pitti> Amaranth: so why exactly was it removed now?
<Amaranth> pitti: Because in the past if a user tried to load it (`compiz --replace gconf`) it would basically just ignore that because the ccp plugin was already being loaded. Now compiz loads all plugins specified on the command line and makes it impossible to unload them
<Ng> aha, it's avahi-browse that's doing it
<Amaranth> pitti: So now the gconf plugin is actively interfering with the ccp plugin and causing the issue mentioned in that bug report
<pitti> Amaranth: ok, thanks
<seb128> pitti, no opinion about gvfs I guess we could use the upstream version
<dpm> pitti, now that ubuntu-docs is in language packs, does that change the workflow for translations in any way? If I understand it correctly, a new version of the ubuntu-docs package will have to be created with updated xml translations, which will then be imported and exported in the language packs
<pitti> dpm: correct
<seb128> pitti, is bug #453072 due to your recent changes?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 453072 in nautilus "Context menu for an USB pendrive shows "Unmount", "Eject" and "Safely Remove Drive"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/453072
<pitti> seb128: yes, it is; we determined that eject cannot be "safely eject" by default, since there are some machines with internal usb drives (card readers)
<pitti> if you "safely remove" them, they get disconnected from usb and you need a reboot
<seb128> well, you don't have any way to know if the usb drive is a card readers or a key?
<seb128> I know this bug
<seb128> but having 3 options for a usb stick is ridiculous
<pitti> seb128: bug 404185
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 404185 in gvfs "dell mini 10v SD/SDHC slot gets ejected from the USB bus on nautilus 'eject' " [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404185
<seb128> we already had a bug that 2 options was confusing
<seb128> unmount and eject is the same to users
<seb128> so 3...
<pitti> seb128: we don't know whether it's internal or external unfortunately :-(
<seb128> which means you confuse 99% of users for a 1% case?
<pitti> so the nautilus eject icon does eject now, but not safe removal
<seb128> I can understand why but I would not call the bug fixed there
<pitti> well, 404185 is, but not the general issue of course
<seb128> having 3 items to eject an usb key makes no sense
<seb128> how do we expect user to know which one to use?
<pitti> well, they do different things; I don't know
<seb128> pitti, do you have a bug number to track the issue?
<pitti> we could entirely disable safe removal
<pitti> and not make this availablle
<seb128> pitti, what do they do different on an usb stick?
<pitti> it's not a regression, just some devices need it to stop flashing lights and "unsafe to remove" warnings
<seb128> what we want is basically a write flush on the stick
<pitti> seb128: eject unmounts all and sends media eject command, which is enough for e. g. ipods
<seb128> well for sure we don't need *3* option in usb keys context menus do we?
<seb128> I don't even understand the difference
<pitti> we could probably also get rid of umount if we have eject
<seb128> I just want a "do whatever you want and give me my key" item there
<pitti> the most prominent difference is that eject unmounts all partitiosn
<pitti> seb128: use the eject icon in nautilus then :)
<pitti> I think that's what most people want
<seb128> why do we have an unmount out of cds?
<kenvandine> most people don't know what unmount is
<seb128> why do anybody want to unmount rather than eject a key?
<dpm> pitti, ok, thanks (re: langpacks and ubuntu-docs)
<pitti> seb128: corner case, if you only want to use one partition on an USB HDD; not that relevant, I guess
<seb128> hum
<seb128> there is really people who care to unmount one partition on a key they use?
<seb128> what is the pratical interest there?
<pitti> probably not on an usb stick, but on a hd there might
<pitti> but I wouldn't call that very relevant
<seb128> do we have a way to make the different between those devices?
<pitti> I'd be fine with hiding umount for stuff that doesn't have media
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I will give it some thinking, not for karmic now anyway
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> pitti, btw the bug is a gvfs one right?
<seb128> or nautilus?
<pitti> seb128: gvfs I think
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<pitti> seb128: well, showing umount could be nautilus, I'm not sure
<seb128> I don't really get the new option
<seb128> the safely remove sounds like an unmount
<seb128> but I will not bother for now
<pitti> it's like eject plus additionally power off the usb controller
<seb128> any reason eject couldn't do that by default?
<pitti> it's what the eject button did until a week or so ago
<pitti> seb128: internal usb devices
<seb128> well, in those case you still have both options?
<seb128> and if you pick the wrong one you are screwed?
<pitti> we discussed it quite a bit, looked at dmidecode and USB classes etc. to figure out whether a device is internal
<pitti> seb128: right, but the main concern was that the eject symbol in nauilus (bookmark bar) did that (which most people do, I figure)
<seb128> how do you decide if the icon should eject or safely eject?
<seb128> could that same logic be applied to make eject do whatever it should?
<pitti> seb128: we can't decide it, that's the point
<pitti> so it's always just normal eject now
<seb128> we should maybe an yet another entry "I don't care and don't understand what you want, give me my key"
<mac_v> kenvandine: Win7 now uses "dismount" so , pretty soon most users will know what 'unmount' is ;)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> half joking
<pitti> hehe
<seb128> I'm not a newbie but I've no clue which one to use now
<seb128> pitti, the "eject" icon is what you use if you use browser mode and not right click on desktop icons
<pitti> seb128: as I said, we could hide the "safe removeal" option entirely, if we don't particularly care about this
<seb128> which is what most users do I expect
<pitti> *nod*
<seb128> nobody bothers opening a browser dialog to use the sidebar
<mac_v> seb128: the unmount and new eject idea started from here :/ > https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=576587
<ubottu> Gnome bug 576587 in gdu volume monitor "allow eject even on non-ejectable volumes" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> mac_v, right, I've been following this bug
<seb128> and it was "how can we display 1 item and not 2"
<seb128> and now we have 3
<mac_v> ridiculous ;)
<kenvandine> way too confusing
<seb128> I understand why we are there
<seb128> we had cases broken before
<seb128> so we unbroke those by confusing everybody else
<seb128> we should try to do better next cycle though
<pitti> so, show both for CD-ROMs, and just "eject" for everything else?
<seb128> pitti, don't do anything for karmic
<seb128> we tried that before I think
<pitti> for lucid, I mean
<seb128> cf upstream bug mac_v pointed
<seb128> there was unhappy users because of the "I want to unmount a partition on usb disks"
<seb128> or similar cases
<seb128> I'm wondering if we should go for the easy way in nautilus
<seb128> and tell those users to use gdu
<seb128> since that's a corner case usually
<mac_v> +1
<mac_v> seb128: gvfs devs are most probably the 'unhappy user'  , some of the ideas in gvfs are too geek-centered rather than user-friendly ;p
<seb128> mac_v, right, hackers are power users
<seb128> that's expected
<seb128> that's doesn't mean they don't listen to constructive comments
<asac> mvo: is bug 452752 a bug at all?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452752 in ubufox "package ubufox 0.8~b1-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452752
<asac>  ErrorMessage: package ubufox is already installed and configured
<mvo> asac: no :(
<asac> i only know that message if running apturl on something that exists
<asac> mvo: ah. so its a false-positive apport trigger ;)?
<mvo> asac: sorry, its a followup error, most likely something like bad happend before
<mvo> yeah
<mvo> let me look at the log
<seb128> mac_v, do you know if the nautilus copy icon being colored is a known issue?
<seb128> mac_v, do you know if the nautilus copy icon being colored is a known issue?
<mvo> dpkg-deb: `/var/cache/apt/archives/openoffice.org-help-en-us_1%3a3.1.1-4ubuntu1_all.deb' is not a debian format archive^M
<mvo> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/openoffice.org-help-en-us_1%3a3.1.1-4ubuntu1_all.deb (--unpack):^M
<mvo>  subprocess dpkg-deb --control returned error exit status 2^M
<mvo> ^--- asac that looks *very* unahppy
<asac> hehe
<asac> so whose bug is it that it got filed against ubufox?
<seb128> mac_v, the one displayed in the notification area during copies
<asac> apport hook?
<asac> mvo: ?
<mvo> we got a few of those, I get the growing fear that something with our kernel is odd, maybe ext4
<asac> urgh
<mvo> asac: that is a apt bug
<asac> i dont want to know that ... remember?
<asac> ok
<mac_v> seb128: oh ,that the file operations , yeah.. but i think that would need a code change , to use a new label
<mvo> scott had a issue the other day where a downloaded file was correupted when it was saved to disk
<seb128> mac_v, do you know if there is a bug about it?
<mvo> now I'm pretty confident in the code in apt that does the downloading/checksuming
<mvo> I even created a fault injecting proxy to test that the checksum stuff is wokring
<asac> mvo: maybe the .deb download was put there without being finished? is that possible?
<mvo> that leaves something in memory->disk->memory
<mvo> in theory it might, but apt will only move it out of partial/ once its completed
<mvo> (and the sha256 matches)
<mvo> but it will only match the downloaded stream, not the on-disk data
<asac> mvo: but but ... move doesnt rewrite if its on same partition
<mvo> (for efficiency)
<asac> e.g. mv /var/..:/partial/a.deb /var/.../final/a.deb
<asac> shouldnt do anything ... if it breaks that it should be unrelated to that op
<mvo> yeha, my theory is that during  network->disk something happend
<mvo> some corruption
<asac> mvo: if you copy there is the likelyhood that the copy got killed
<asac> so you need to rerun the checksum after copy
<asac> in theory
<mvo> so far the hash is only taken on the network stream
<mvo> s/so far/currently/
<mvo> but that ought to be sufficient :)
<asac> huh? you said that you check the sum aginst partial?
<asac> mvo: do you mv or cp from partial to archives?
<mvo> it gets downloaded in partial and the hash is updated after each block, when the download is finished and the hash matches the downloaded file in partial/ is moved to final
<mac_v> seb128: Bug #437532
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437532 in nautilus "desaturate nautilus-progress-info panel icon" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437532
<mvo> partial/ is a dir
<seb128> mac_v, thanks
<asac> mvo: move == mv or cp+rm ?
<mvo> rename()
<mvo> (unless I miss something, I need to double check to be 100% certain)
<mvo> but if its a copy, there might be a issue when a flush() returns too early for example
<asac> yes. or the copy gets killed
<mvo> oh, interessting thought
<asac> next time you find it in there ... half state
 * mvo nods
<asac> like ... hit reset button if upgrade takes too long ;)
<mvo> haha
<mvo> right
<seb128> pitti, btw my cdrom driver has a music player icon now
<seb128> pitti, does your fix from the other day require a reboot?
<seb128> it's on my laptop, I did restart my session but didn't reboot
<pitti> seb128: a restart of dk-disks
<pitti> ah, no, sorry
<pitti> seb128: reboot is easiest, or an udevadm trigger
<seb128> pitti, ok, so it's probably it
<seb128> I will try later and let you know
<dpm> pitti, in the documentation at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Internationalisation#Desktop%20Entries you updated that section because the X-GNOME- key should be the preferred one, but I see that the langpack.mk rule in Karmic still uses the X-Ubuntu- key. Shall I update the docs in the wiki accordingly, since currently all apps seem to still be using X-Ubuntu-?
<pitti> dpm: X-GNOME is preferred nowadays, we need to update langpack.mk
<pitti> thanks for spotting
<pitti> dpm: updating in bzr right away, so that we don't forget
<pitti> dpm: (done)
<dpm> pitti, is that going to work seamlessly? I mean, there will be some packages in the system which will still have the X-Ubuntu- key until they are rebuilt with the new rule. Will glib (I believe it was) recognise both keys?
<pitti> dpm: yes, our glib checks for both
<dpm> pitti, ah, great
<pitti> first X-GNOME, then X-Ubuntu
<dpm> thanks
 * seb128 is away now see you later
<dpm> pitti, another question on that, IIRC if static translations are present, they take precedence over those in the mo files. Does that work on a per language basis? I mean, if I've got a .desktop file with only a few static translations in the system, but it doesn't contain e.g. 'de', although the German translation is present in the mo file, will the mo file translation be picked up anyway?
<jcastro> asac: I did a talk last night at a LUG and someone had a palm pre and asked about tethering and I didn't know how to answer. So we just tried it and it all worked ootb with n-m. It was brilliant.
<pitti> dpm: yes, it should work per-language
<asac> jcastro: cool. through USB? karmic?
<dpm> pitti, ah, great, thanks
<jcastro> asac: yep, just showed up in n-m as palm pre and "Auto USB" and just worked. No one in the room could believe it.
<asac> nice ;)
<jcastro> asac: anyway I just wanted to pass that along, it was very impressive to see.
<asac> thx
<asac> nice to hear good feedback when always working on bugs, bugs bugs ;)
<asac> tells me that something works at least :)
<jcastro> well, you know how lug talks can be, I got pelted by pet bugs for like 2 hours so it was nice to end with something so "used to be impossible to get working in linux" live demo
<asac> yeah i can figure
<asac> did you take notes about the pet bugs? or were most really specific things?
<jcastro> I've got good notes and will do a trip report
<asac> cool
<jcastro> every once in a while I'll go to a lug and they have very specific bug issues and whatnot, which is good
<asac> jcastro: is your personal modem working ;)?
<jcastro> I don't have one
<asac> ah. tried phone?
<jcastro> I don't even know where to find a landline these days
<asac> jcastro: no. 3g modem
<asac> ;)
<jcastro> oh no, I used to have a friend that worked at a sprint store who would let me try a bunch but she moved away. :(
<asac> too bad. thx!
<asac> pitti: i updated the ipv4 RC bug in case you need that for release meeting
 * pitti declares victory over usplash
<pitti> superm1: should work for you now (with latest bzr)
<pitti> asac: danke
<asac> pitti: current status is that we still dont know when to reproduce that... but the other scary part (sebs reconnect when connection editor is opened)
<asac> is fixed in polkit
<pitti> sweet
<asac> pitti: i wanted to close the bug actually bug there was a dupe just today :(
<pitti> Riddell: can you please Kupdate https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus ?
<asac> my hope is that the user upgraded to beta and got struck by one fo the many issues because of version mismatch and now filed it
<pitti> asac: the polkit bug was not by any chance related to bug 445303?
<pitti> mvo ^
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445303 in policykit-1-gnome "update-manager stucked on polkit password dialog" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445303
<asac> let me check.
<pitti> asac: so, if it's not really reproducible, we can certainly downgrade it
<asac> pitti: yes. i think thats the same
<asac> pitti: yes. i think thats best. unless we get more filings. though if it strikes someone its most severity ... no connection
<asac> which makes me feel it should be somewhere at least. if we get more dupes we might want to put the workaround into
<pitti> asac: ok, setting to medium ok for you? (I'm about to)
<asac> release notes
<pitti> yes, makes sense
<asac> pitti: i would say, keep it on high. but unmilestone or untarget from karmic
<pitti> ok
<asac> not sure what we do for things that might end up in release notes
<asac> you probably know best
<pitti> asac: usually you'd add an "ubuntu release notes" task
<asac> ok ... maybe communicate that to release team
<asac> we will decide before RC what to do
<asac> is that ok?
<pitti> asac: feel free to just add a stanza to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview, I think you know best what to write there
<pitti> asac: sounds good
<asac> ok so dont change it today. lets look at that next week on monday/tuesday. maybe we will find the problem ;)
<asac> pitti: so that update-manager bug is one falloff ... i think there should be lots of bugs. because if you used the official example
<asac> you will free authority early
<pitti> right, as the documentation says
<azteech> need to see if I can get someones input if possible. Have two machines, one a 64bit AMD, and one 32-bit. Have successfully downloaded the updated 9.10 beta livecd and it verified with no errors against md5 checksum. The two computers I have are currently running 8.04 LTS 64-bit, and 9.04 on my secondary x8686 32-bit. Both these systems are connected via a KVM switch to a single monitor/keyboar/mouse. When I try to run livecd of
<azteech> because this happens so early in the initialization step / install step, normal troubleshooting (lspci, x.org conf, etc.) are not even initialized yet. so can't use them to isolate the problem.
<pitti> azteech: your first comment was cut after "When I try to run livecd of"...
<pitti> which was exactly the part where you mention the actual problem, I guess
<dobey> seb128, pitti: i need to get some food in me, but will have an ubuntuone-client upload ready in about 1.5 hours or so
<pitti> dobey: ok; I will be gone at this time, but I'm sure there's someone in #u-devel or here who can sponsor
<azteech> pitti: rest goes like this "When I try to run livecd of the beta 9.10 on either machine, the systems boots up fine until it gets to the video setup. Then I get "out of range" error on my monitor. When I attempt to do a straight install of the 9.10 on my secondary system, I receive the same error "out of range".  This tells me video bootstrap of the 9.10 is not being initialized properly, thus over driving my video card/monitor.
<pitti> azteech: what video card?
<pitti> I suppose it has trouble detecting the monitor frequencies through the kvm
<azteech> It is a NvIdia GeForce 7400 series with 512  of ram. As for the KVM, thought of that. But, 9.04 and 8.04 don't have that problem.
<pitti> ok, so no KMS problem
<pitti> azteech: I'm afraid I don't have good advice here; bryce_ might
<azteech> just so happens that I have the exact same card in both machines.
<azteech> where did the last of my second input drop out? on my screen I see everything I uploaded onto channel.
<pitti> azteech: as I said, "When I try to run livecd of"
<azteech> still drops out there?
<pitti> azteech: oh, your followup was okay
<azteech> okay, thanks ...
<azteech> interesting, didn't think there was a character limitation on input for channels. lol
<azteech> pitti: thanks for looking at it and at least giving it some thought.
<superm1> pitti, nice job! :)
<pitti> superm1: I stared at that code for an hour, and then I started to dump palette entries for every single fading step; that finally showed the problem :)
<azteech> bryce_ ping
<azteech> pitti said you might be able to help with problem I outlined above.
<Amaranth> azteech: what IRC client are you using?
<azteech> pidgin..
<azteech> v 2.6.1
<joaopinto> azteech, there is a general limit defined on the IRC protocol, 512/line
<azteech> joaopinto: thanks, didn't know that.
<azteech> even old dog's can learn something new ... lol
<pitti> good by all, need to run now
<james_w> bye pitti
<james_w> have a good weekend
<james_w> asac: could you clarify your comment on bug 445303?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 445303 in update-manager "update-manager stucked on polkit password dialog" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445303
<james_w> I'm rather confused about what other people think is going on there
<asac> james_w: all i see was a potential freed policykit authority in the crash. now folks say that it doesnt use policy kit anymore
<asac> so i wanted to know if there is a way to go back to the setup that had that problem
<asac> so we can verify
<james_w> what crash?
<asac> well maybe not crash, but
<asac> (polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1:16914): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: cannot register existing type `_PolkitError'
<asac> (polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1:16914): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_once_init_leave: assertion `initialization_value != 0' failed
<asac> i just fixed a bug in polkit which might have fixed that warning ;)
<asac> more i dont know about the bug.
<james_w> ok
<asac> so if its not easy to go back to aptdaemon ... just ignore it for this cycle
<james_w> I'm not sure that's the cause
<asac> feels like it
<james_w> just test using software-center instead
<asac> thats what i asked you to drop instructions how to verify this bug;)
<asac> james_w: so yes. that thing fixed the agent crash
<asac> james_w: so that means the bug shoud be fixed
<james_w> asac: I still get those same warnings with the new version
<asac> with crashing agent you never get a reply
<asac> james_w: sure?
<asac> i just updated it ... saw it before
<asac> now i dont see it
<asac> just running /usr/lib/policykit-1-gnome/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1
<james_w> which binary package
<james_w> ?
<asac> before it crashed
<asac> now it stayed there
<james_w> and this bug is not an agent crash
<asac> james_w: libpolk\*
<asac> james_w: this bug is agent not replying ... which happens if it crashes for sure
<asac> at least that how it felt on first glance
<james_w> yes
<james_w> but this isn't a crash from what I can see
<asac> james_w: well. the guys posted it. with those warnings you can get everything
<asac> as a matter of fact polkit wont work if you see those warnings
<james_w> umm
<james_w> not strictly true
<asac> could be that the code doesnt catch if something returns a null and then never gets a callback
<james_w> e.g. those that see the problem have it work some of the time and some not
<james_w> but they always see those two warnings
<james_w> I see the two warnings and have never seen this bug
<asac> yes. could be everything. point is if you see this, you end up in a bad state
<asac> and we didnt see nm crashes for all configs
<asac> only sometimes
<asac> probably racy too
<asac> but well. the warnings are gone with latest polkit
<asac> so its worth asking folks to verify imo
<james_w> sure
<asac> hmm
<asac> i will cehck that code on monday
<james_w> yeah, I still see the warnings with the new version
<james_w> haven't rebooted though
<asac> james_w: so is this still an issue somewhere at all? you said in software-center?
<asac> if not i will not look on monday ;)
<james_w> I have no idea
<james_w> I have never hit this bug
<james_w> and I don't even seem to be able to see the same things you do with the new versions
<james_w> however, reports so far have suggested that this is a polkit-1 problem independent of whatever is using it
<james_w> so it should be visible with s-c, or pkexec or whatever else if it still exists
<james_w> and I suspect that this will not have fixed this issue
<asac> james_w: i agree. the critical warnings are not fixed here. it just didnt happen a few times
<asac> i will check on those and see what they are coming from
<james_w> thanks
<asac> could also be related how we link stuff ... but i stop speculating now
<jcastro> rickspencer3: I never got that u1 invite, if you can find another way to get that video to me I think it'd be a nice weekend treat for the developerchannel
<rickspencer3>   jcastro: rats
<rickspencer3> will do today/tonight
<rickspencer3> jcastro, will that work?
<jcastro> no rush/emergency, triage me appropriately. :D
 * rickspencer3 can ftp them to my server for the time being
<rickspencer3> :)
<jcastro> oh if you can ftp can send you the blip credentials
 * jcastro will send a mail
<rickspencer3> uh ...
<rickspencer3> do I really come off as not being able to ftp?
<jcastro> no, I am sending you the credentials so you can directly ftp to blip instead of going through me
 * rickspencer3 notes pointy hair in mirror
<rickspencer3> jcastro, ack
<jcastro> and then the site does everything automatically
<rickspencer3> sweet
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> anyone around to sponsor an upload for karmic? :)
<chrisccoulson> dobey - sponsor an upload to main? (if so, i can't help you much, but i can if it is universe ;))
<dobey> yes to main
<dobey> seb said he would, but he's not online
<diverse_izzue> asac, you're the network-manager guy right?
<dobey> hrmm
<diverse_izzue> do you usually expect an answer when you say hrmm dobey?
<kenvandine> diverse_izzue, i think that is just his fingers thinking
<kenvandine> :)
<diverse_izzue> :-)
<dobey> diverse_izzue: unfortunately i don't think anyone is around who can answer me right now :)
<diverse_izzue> dobey, certainly not when all you ask is hrm
<dobey> i didn't ask that
<dobey> i stated it
<dobey> :)
<rickspencer3> diverse_izzue, what's up? It's night time in Europe on Friday after final freeze, so I hope asac is relaxing atm
<rickspencer3> something  can help you with?
<diverse_izzue> rickspencer3, how am i supposed to know in which time zone asac is? :-)
<rickspencer3> you're not, I'm just telling you why he didn't answer
<diverse_izzue> i just wanted to ask if karmic has the integration network-manager <-> bluetooth enabled. should my nokia mobile phone be recognised as a modem when i pair it?
<rickspencer3> also, offering to help if possible
<rickspencer3> hmmm
<rickspencer3> diverse_izzue, I'm not sure what is supposed to happen, but I haven't heard about that feature
<rickspencer3> though it would be sweet to be able to tether your phone via bluetooth
<rickspencer3> diverse_izzue, did you try it and didn't do what you expected?
<diverse_izzue> rickspencer3, fedora people (i think it was bastien nocera and dan williams) have been blogging about it, seems to be in f12, maybe already f11
<dobey> diverse_izzue: /ctcp time asac will tell you what time zone he's in i think :)
<dobey> well, at least, what timezone his irc connection is in
<dobey> may not match up with physical timezone :)
<tgpraveen> diverse_izzue: rickspencer3 it is in karmic.
<tgpraveen> though currently it works with PAN and not DUN (or vice versa or something)
<diverse_izzue> tgpraveen, but when i pair my nokia e51 with karmic, i'm not offered to use it as a modem. what goes wrong?
<tgpraveen> so basically give it a a shot if it works it works :)
<tgpraveen> hmm search on google for the exact blog post.
<tgpraveen> and try asking someone on gnome- bluetooth channel or #nm
<tgpraveen> maybe your phone doesn't support the reqd bt profile/ or you are doing it wrong
<diverse_izzue> the blog post is here (but server down): http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/07/10/unwire-with-networkmanager/
<tgpraveen> diverse_izzue: do you reach till this stage successfully http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/files/2009/07/3-bt-pan.png?
<diverse_izzue> tgpraveen, i don't get the checkbox
<tgpraveen> ask on gnome-bluetooth's channel or #nm
<awe> dtchen: do you have a minute for an alsa driver question?
<dtchen> awe: shoot
<awe> my macbook ( 5,1 ) doen't mute speakers when i plug in headphones.  that's an hda codec bug right?
<awe> i'm running rtg's latest backports-alsa too
<dtchen> awe: very well could be; the only way to prove it doesn't involve PA is to prevent PA from running
<awe> ok, i'll play around with it over the weekend...
<dtchen> awe: is it a Realtek or IDT codec?
<awe> what's the easiest way to tell?
<awe> i *think* it's realtek
<awe> it's realtek ( lsmod, duh )
<dtchen> awe: sorry, head -6 /proc/asound/card*/codec*
<dtchen> but yes, lsmod|grep ^snd will also help ;)
<awe> yea, both report the same ( whew ).  ;/
<dtchen> which realtek?
<awe> ALC889A
<dtchen> oh blather
<dtchen> is your ^Vendor Id 0x10ec0889?
<dtchen> or 0x10ec0885?
<awe> the latter ( ...885 )
<dtchen> is ^Revision Id 0x100101 or 0x100103
<awe> 103
<dtchen> ok, and what's the ^Subsystem Id?
<awe> 0x106b3f00
<dtchen> yeah, you have a big fat entry in alc882_ssid_cfg_tbl[]
<dtchen> /* FIXME: HP jack sense seems not working for MBP 5,1, so apparently * no perfect solution yet
<dtchen> so, yeah, it's a codec issue; no need to chase down whether PA is involved
<awe> ok, thanks for checking that out for me...
<dtchen> np
<dtchen> if you want, we can set aside some afternoon/evening at UDS to play with hda-analyzer and hda-emu to figure out which GPIO pins need to be twiddled
<awe> sure, sounds like fun!  ;)
<dtchen> hehe
<cj> gar.  the printer search tool crashes while searching.  I know it won't find the printer by searching.  can I tell it not to?
<rickspencer3> wow dtchen that was impressive for sure ;)
<rickspencer3> awe has been asking about that for like 3 weeks now, I think ;)
<awe> nah... just forgot my ipod when i went to the office today, and couldn't listen to ac/dc on my laptop w/out pissing off everyone else in the office!
<dtchen> yeah, I'm missing AC/DC tonight to hack on sound bugs. Bah.
<dtchen> they're playing less than two miles from me!
<awe> open your windows, you'll probably be able to hear 'em!
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-17
<Amaranth> dtchen: ouch
<sweettie> hoihoi
#ubuntu-desktop 2009-10-18
<AnAnt> Hello, I have a question regarding the latest change in gdm (setting the default theme using an XML file), will this step help to ease branding ?
<AnAnt> another thing, isn't it possible to change sound theme for GDM ?
<AnAnt> I noticed that /desktop/gnome/sound/theme_name key doesn't work
<Brucevdk> Hi mac_v, I installed the Karmic beta yesterday and for the first time figured out that the gconf key menu_have_icons was set to false -- I think your comment "why isnt it a guideline yet and why are these icon changes being made on proposals made by a few? [...] This now seems like a haphazard move , and changes made only on realizing the bugs it causes!" is spot on
<Brucevdk> I'm seriously baffled by the choice to go forward with this change without first discussing a guideline and then creating a set of GnomeGoals
<Brucevdk> What are you gusy going to do with the Karmic release, change the default back to True?
<mac_v> Brucevdk: AFAIK , it was folks from Ubuntu who have pushed for this move ;)  ... so i dont expect the change in default. you could comment on the bug though
<Brucevdk> mac_v: I don't understand this move at all and I will most likely be advocating against it, but I'm building a case first
<Brucevdk> mac_v: who specifically from the Ubuntu team has been advocating for this move?
<mac_v> Brucevdk: i dont agree with the move either. *the* most awkward issue is the panel system and admin menu item , which dont have the icons while the rest of the panel has icons... Humanity is getting bugs because of this! :/  users think that the humanity icon theme doesnt not have the icon and hence not displayed
<mac_v> Brucevdk: the folks advocating are mentioned in the initial comments ;)
<Brucevdk> mac_v: well it's really suprising people are filing bugs for which really is quite a radical change all of a sudden, users have most definitely trained themselves to focus on the icons and not the words or context/position -- Matthew Paul Thomas states "I think if you tested separate sets of people who had never used Gnome before, overall they would find menu items more quickly without icons than with them. " -- but that's an assumption, nobody
<Brucevdk> actually did any usability tests
<Brucevdk> uhm I meant "not really surprising"
<mac_v> Brucevdk: nope , no tests have been done
<Brucevdk> mac_v: and because there isn't a guideline, do you know if this applies to context menus? Because the menu_have_icons certainly removes icons from context menus too, not just application menus
<mac_v>  menu_have_icons also controls the context menu
<Brucevdk> to be honest, I think it's just somebody's crusade against icons gone one step too far (William Jon McCann?)
<mac_v> lol , mccann does a lot of things , but i'm not sure if he was among the advocates
<Brucevdk> mac_v: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469 <-- he's the reporter
<ubottu> Gnome bug 557469 in general "set menus_have_icons=false by default" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<mac_v> Brucevdk: ah! yes.. forgot about the bgo bug!... i tried arguing against this bug and gave up a long time ago :(
<Brucevdk> that's a shame
<AnAnt> am I asking in the correct channel ?
<Brucevdk> I'm going to work out my case, mac_v do you mind if I ask you some questions about this as I go along?
<Brucevdk> AnAnt: what are you asking?
<AnAnt> about GDM
<Brucevdk> AnAnt: I wasn't here when you asked anything, so you'll have to be a bit clearer
<AnAnt> regarding the latest change in gdm (setting the default theme using an XML file), will this help to ease branding ?
<mac_v> Brucevdk: shoot
<AnAnt> another thing, isn't it possible to change sound theme for GDM ? I noticed that /desktop/gnome/sound/theme_name key doesn't work
<mac_v> AnAnt: i dont think it works correctly now ... regarding gdm  , the best folks are pitti/ seb128 / kwwii ... workdays would be better to catch them :)
<AnAnt> ok
<Brucevdk> mac_v: do you happen to have the links to the Humanity bug reports laying around?
<mac_v> Brucevdk: i have duped them to the libgnome bug
<Brucevdk> mac_v: link?
<mac_v> i think there are atleast 2 from humanity
<mac_v> Bug #452513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452513 in humanity-icon-theme "Incomplete default icon package ( Karmic ) (dup-of: 407621)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452513
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 407621 in libgnome "(design decision) Icons missing from context menu , dialogue buttons , firefox bookmark favicons, system menu" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407621
<Brucevdk> mac_v: thanks
<mac_v> Brucevdk: Bug #440320
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440320 in humanity-icon-theme "menu items are [still] missing icons (dup-of: 407621)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440320
<mac_v> np
<Brucevdk> mac_v: earlier you stated that one shouldn't expect the default to be changed back, but reallly, why not? It seems even people advocating for change with regards to the application menu do not agree with just setting this configuration value and doing nothing else
<mac_v> Brucevdk: i'm not sure which/who's comment you are refering to?
<Brucevdk> [11:30:57] <mac_v> Brucevdk: AFAIK , it was folks from Ubuntu who have pushed for this move ;)  ... so i dont expect the change in default. you could comment on the bug though
<mac_v> Brucevdk: i mean *who* does not agree?
<mac_v> "people advocating"
<Brucevdk> mac_v: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469#c14 -- Matthew Paul Thomas
<ubottu> Gnome bug 557469 in general "set menus_have_icons=false by default" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<mac_v> Brucevdk: i have quoted that comment in the lp report , see mpt's reply :)
<mac_v> in launchpad
 * Brucevdk looks
<Brucevdk> mac_v: alright, but to me that brings up two things: 1) Are people currently really going around patching apps? and 2) People are working with a guideline that hasn't yet been formalized
<Brucevdk> for a project I maintain we will either tell users to set the flag back to True
<mac_v> Brucevdk: 1-not many apps are patched because users just turn back the option. 2- https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=588668
<ubottu> Gnome bug 588668 in General "Guideline on appropriate usage of icons in menu" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<Brucevdk> mac_v: exactly, this has "epic fail" written all over it
<Brucevdk> the argument "see how people like it after a few weeks" is so full of holes, because people will Google and switch the config variable back -- plus there's no infrastructure to see if users eventually like the change
<Brucevdk> and in the process, because you've not clearly communicated the change, you will piss of both users and developers
<mac_v> Brucevdk: are you subscribed to the desktop / devel Mailing list?
<Brucevdk> mac_v: no
<Brucevdk> neither Ubuntu's nor Gnome's btw
<Brucevdk> btw with "you've" I didn't mean _you_
<mac_v> Brucevdk: there you go , i sent a mail regarding the change to the ubuntu mailing lists , most of the devs know about this , not all agree with this hence they dont want to fix it ;)
<mac_v> Brucevdk: yeah  , i got that 'you'  didnt mean me :)
<Brucevdk> :-)
<Brucevdk> mac_v: well, the way I'd proceed is by setting always-show-icons flag for every icon in my application to True
<Brucevdk> which is actually what I'm going to do right now
<Brucevdk> gotta head off those bug reports
<mac_v> Brucevdk: exactly! , that is what i would say would be the best way  :)
<mac_v> then all icons will be shown
<mac_v> Brucevdk: and the gnome guys will again keep scratching their heads how to prevent this ;p
<Brucevdk> mac_v: we can only hope that the ability to add icons to menuitems won't be removed from GTK (that was actually mentioned in the report)
<mac_v> Brucevdk: the good thing is not all agree with this change so it would be a bit tough to "remove" the option
<Brucevdk> mac_v: does mpt show up here from time to time?
<mac_v> Brucevdk: on workdays
<Brucevdk> alright
<Brucevdk> mac_v: I was talking with andreasn in #gnome-hacker and he states they've actually done some usability research with test subjects on the matter of the menu item icons
<mac_v> andreasn: really ?  ;p
<andreasn> not on that specifically, but I asked mpt if he had observed that the lack of icons in the shutdown menu made it harder to use in his UI tests
<andreasn> but he had not seen any indications on that
<mac_v> andreasn: actually ubuntu hasnt done any tests specifically for this...
<mac_v> to do a test there needs to be a control and a test
<andreasn> mac_v, ok
<mac_v> nothing of the sort was done and it probably was mpt's observations that users dont seem to matter
<mac_v> *users dont seem to care for the icons
<andreasn> right
<mac_v> Brucevdk: andreasn: for a new user running these tests is just an examiner's bias , since the new user will always read before using the option , so this does not affect new users much but to the regular user this is a draw back.
<Brucevdk> mac_v: agreed
<andreasn> my main motivation for the change was that I think it results in a more clean looking (as opposed to cute) appearance
<andreasn> but I respect if others don't like the change
<mac_v> andreasn: i agree that there needs to be a clean up of sorts , but not a complete removal of icons , ..... arrangement the options with icons /options with radio buttons/ those without icons
<mac_v> arrange*
<mac_v> some icons help
<Brucevdk> wouldn't it have been better to keep the default as it was and proceed by creating a guideline and then setting a GnomeGoal?
<mac_v> keep the really good icons and and see which dont convey a quick meaning and remove those
<mac_v> Brucevdk: +1
<Brucevdk> In the end I don't think the discussion should be about icons so much as it should be about whether or not the application menu is really useful
<Brucevdk> I thought Michael Monreal made a good point about the use of application menus in general "In all those years I think I have used exactly *two* menu items in evolution: Preferences and the Filter manager." (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469#c9)
<ubottu> Gnome bug 557469 in general "set menus_have_icons=false by default" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<mac_v> andreasn: as long as there is an option to revert to displaying the icons , i'm happy :)  gnome3 will also carry the gconf option right?
<andreasn> mac_v, as far as I know
<mac_v> \o/
<mac_v> Brucevdk: yeah , i recently migrated from thunderbird to evolution and all the options in the drop down really make me dizzy :/
<andreasn> indeed, evo have a lot of odd things in the menus, so does thunderbird :)
<mac_v> i really dont understand the point of "Hide deleted messages" option!
<andreasn> lots of things that are there for historical reasons etc.
<andreasn> mac_v, could it be some pop-thing perhaps?
<mac_v> not sure , but even so , why is the deleted message displayed in the folder and again in the trash! , it could have just been > delete moves the message to trash , and no need for that option ;)
 * mac_v prefers POP3 more than IMAP :)
<andreasn> cleaning up Evo's menus would be nice, but I really don't want to fight that fight. This menu-icon-discussion have been tiring enough
<mac_v> lol
<andreasn> in general it seems that adding things are easy, removing things is, well, slightly harder
<mac_v> andreasn: http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.28/ , shows all images with the icons=true ;) this is a bit misleading
<andreasn> oh, crap :/
<andreasn> mac_v, I've noticed that you have used monocrome icons in the notification area, do you think there are other parts of the system where we could make use of monocrome icons as well?
<mac_v> andreasn: hmm , havent given it much thought , but the notify-osd icons are also greyscale ... off the top of my head , i could say the clock[not an icon per-se] in the drop down could be monochrome...
<andreasn> yeah, that could look good
<andreasn> what do you think about the -symbolic part that mpt suggested (somewhere that I can't remember)
<mac_v> ah , it was in an lp bug report..
<andreasn> I wonder if it would be a good thing to try to push for the next 6 months
<mac_v> andreasn: did you mean this > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/433858/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433858 in software-center "Use stock arrow icon" [Low,Confirmed]
<andreasn> yes
<andreasn> jon mccann said he might be able to code it
<andreasn> but only maybe, do you know someone who could do it?
<mac_v> andreasn: i didnt understand how it is supposed to work... is it the icon is created in a specific color , but the code checks the panel color and adjusts the color of the icon accordingly ?
<mac_v> or the proposed idea
<andreasn> if I understood it correctly, some code in the panel would say "draw these in this color"
<andreasn> and that could be, say, the text color
<mac_v> andreasn: interesting idea , it would be awesome
<mac_v> damn! if that had existed , i wouldnt have had to do two icon colors! for humanity :/
<andreasn> yeah
<mac_v> andreasn: other locations where monochrome icons could be used are the arrows in apps as mpt mentions[though the monochrome arrow in the software center would not seem ideal choice,IMO ] , also the check-marks some apps use to say working correctly or correct entry... and we could use the red '!' or 'x' for wrong entry.. or the search icon in the text entry ... any icon where the user cant interact
<mac_v> we could create a guideline , > if it is not a button or an option which user can select, icon used must be the -symbolic icon
<mac_v> so for the text entry the search icon can be monochrome and the clear icon being color would indicate the interaction available in the color icon
<mac_v> while the search icon is just a placeholder
<andreasn> that could work, good ideas
<mac_v> andreasn: like the sound preferences , that uses icons volume-low and volume-high, but the icons are not interactive , while the area in-between them [slider] allows interaction ... so these icons could just be -symbolic icons
<mac_v> that would take the attention out of the icons and force the user's the attention more on the slider
<andreasn> indeed
<mac_v> dobey: kwwii: something for the xdg naming specs ;) > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-store/+bug/433858/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 433858 in software-center "Use stock arrow icon" [Low,Confirmed]
<dobey> mac_v: ugh
<mac_v> dobey: lol.. ;p
<mac_v> dobey: you dont like the idea?
<dobey> mac_v: indeed i don't
<mac_v> ;)
<dobey> blogging is hard
<kklimonda> Hmm.. I'd like to get bug 444005 uploaded as an update before release, any sponsors? This upload fixes two crashes, a potential data loss and a minor configuration issue for universe package (transmission-daemon)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444005 in transmission "Updates for Transmission 1.75" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444005
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda - you might have more luck in the morning when there are some more people around ;)
<kklimonda> I know, but I'm not sure whenever I'll be here tomorrow in the morning :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-10-18
<Tenyuu> how can I enable channel 14 on my wireless card?
<TheMuso> Tenyuu: From my understanding, if you can't use a particular channel, that is a restriction put in place by the hardware vendors, usually due to you not being allowed to use channel 14 in your region./
<Tenyuu> is there a way to remove the restriction?
<TheMuso> Not that I know of, and probably not legally.
<Tenyuu> but I plan on going to japan for an extended peroid of time and want to be sure to get all the wireless, so how could that be illegal when japan uses channel 14?
<TheMuso> I don't know what the situation is re using hardware in a differnt location that allow/disallow different channels, and I don't know how one addresses that on a technical level to use those channels either. There may be a way to change the region, but that depends on the chip used.
<RAOF> I *think* the kernel wireless stack should actually detect you're in Japan and enable the appropriate channels.
<RAOF> It's the âwlâ regulatory daemon, from memory; it likes to announce itself in dmesg.
<Tenyuu> what does that mean?
<RAOF> Well, the short version is that I *think* it will Just Work, and you don't need to do anything.
<Tenyuu> ok I just wanted to be sure I could get internet when I go to Japan
<RAOF> The long version is: âIf you want to check, the bit of the kernel that enforces those restrictions is probably the âwl regulatory daemonâ, and look in dmesg for googleable phrasesâ.
<RAOF> (Or wait around here for someone who has more knowledge than âyeah, I think it's this bitâ :))
<Tenyuu> can I tell my computer that I am in region 2?
<Tenyuu> if so how?
 * RAOF doesn't know.
<Tenyuu> a time zone change could indicate region change, right? so if i changed to tokyo time zone would that change my computer to region 2?
<Tenyuu> or am I overthinking
<TheMuso> I don't think the kernel can check back into userspace like that to find out the timezone...
<TheMuso> But I could be wrong.
<Tenyuu> i ment that if I manually changed the time zone to tokyo would it then assume that i was in region 2? (i know that if i did that when not in that time zone then the system time would be incorrect)
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<pitti> hey TheMuso, had a nice weekend?
<RAOF> Hey pitti
<TheMuso> Yes thanks.
<TheMuso> Yourself?
<pitti> we did a major round of house cleaning on Saturday; yesterday was more relaxing, had a nice long hike and visited my family again
<pitti> hey RAOF
<RAOF> Nice.
<TheMuso> Nice indeed.
<RAOF> We have my in-laws down, and had our first aniversary yesterday.
<RAOF> There was nice seafood involved.
 * pitti challenges the combination of "nice" and "seafood"
<pitti> but otherwise, congrats!
 * RAOF thinks pitti should live closer to the sea, for better seafood :P
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> didrocks: bonjour! how's the sprint going?
<didrocks> oh, I've been disconnected and reconnected apparentlyâ¦ I'm sure evo is guilty :)
<didrocks> hey pitti, the sprint is going well as I'm still at home (it starts on wednesday) :)
<didrocks> I'll travel tomorrow
<pitti> ah, I was going to complain about you being up already :)
<didrocks> pitti: and you, how was your week-end?
<didrocks> pitti: heh, nice try :-)
<pitti> didrocks: quite nice; managed to get a major round of housecleaning done, and we went for a nice stroll (we had marvellous autumn weather)
<didrocks> lucky you, the weather in the Alps is really awful for a wekk now :/
<didrocks> week*
<vish> mvoÂ¦ hi, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-foundations-n-user-contributed-metadata-for-software-center  is this again Up for discussion in UDS-N or â¦ ?
<mvo> vish: honestly, I think there is little value to discuss that unless we get buy-in from someone that actually implements it
<vish> mvoÂ¦ yea,i just noticed it was proposed for UDS-N so not very sure of when the session was, Stefano Zacchiroli from debian would like to attend the session, so that we could discuss with getting the descriptions fixed in debian itself..
<vish> he is only at the UDS from mon-wed
<Laney> "A package maintainer should be able to merge a suggestion into the package by clicking a button"
<Laney> I don't see how that would work
 * vish wonders if Laney has 'debian' as a highlight ;)
<mvo> vish: that works for me, we can talk about it with him
<vish> mvoÂ¦ neat, so who should i talk to to have the session scheduled only within mon-wed ?
<Laney> vish: I do try to keep up ;-)
<Laney> but really this would be better implemented as a joint debian/ubuntu initiative imo
<Laney> to actually fix the package descriptions
<Laney> see if policy is clear enough on what they should be, et cetera
<vish> yea..
<mvo> vish: I think jcastro is the man
<vish> mvoÂ¦ thx , will ask jcastro :)
<mvo> thanks!
<cyphermox> good morning!
<pedro_> morning cyphermox
<cyphermox> hey pedro_ :)
<nessita> hello everyone. Could someone sponsor this natty upload? https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.1.1/+merge/38716
<cassidy> seb128, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/empathy/+bug/652944/comments/7
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 652944 in telepathy-haze (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "All my ICQ contacts have a webcam icon next to them in Empathy (affects: 6) (dups: 1) (heat: 32)" [Medium,Triaged]
<seb128> cassidy, thanks!
<seb128> so you managed to get the bug as well? you didn't have it the other day
<cassidy> yep, it wasn't a very hard one :)
<kenvandine> hey cassidy
<kenvandine> are you guys going to be at UDS?
<cassidy> I don't think so
<kenvandine> bummer
<kenvandine> well we'll miss you
<cassidy> it was much easier last time, I just had to take a train :)
<kenvandine> yeah, long haul
<kenvandine> although now it is easy for me :)
<kenvandine> 1h flight... although remarkably expensive for such a short flight, i blame disney
<cassidy> hehe :)
<dobey> pitti: ping
<dobey> kenvandine: your flight was expensive?
<kenvandine> not terrible... like 250
<kenvandine> but way more than going to most places on the east coast
<dobey> kenvandine: you have to go through ATL?
<kenvandine> i think it is direct
<kenvandine> it was the cheapest fair the travel folks found
<dobey> airtran?
<dobey> or delta?
<kenvandine> SW
<dobey> oh
<kenvandine> i am glad to have a direct flight though, just surprisingly expensive for a 1.5h SW flight
<dobey> i'm just annoyed that airtran seemingly won't let me pick any seats yet. even the seats all the way in the back, it wants to charge me like $6 for each flight, to change seats. and it shows all the business class seats as taken
<kenvandine> that is what it usually costs us to go to oakland on SW :)
<kenvandine> ugh
<dobey> which sucks, because i have points/vouchers to use for upgrades
<kenvandine> well SW is a cattle drive :)
<dobey> yeah
 * kenvandine hates that
<pitti> hey dobey
<dobey> kenvandine: just keep hitting refresh on the check-in site until you can, and camp out at the gate :)
<dobey> pitti: hey. wasn't there a policy document somewhere for using xdg autostart on ubuntu?
<pitti> dobey: hm, not that I'm aware of
<pitti> it shouldn't differ from what upstream uses?
<dobey> pitti: upstream doesn't have boot time metrics to meet
<pitti> dobey: oh, you don't mean "how", but "if/how many"?
<dobey> pitti: is there a policy for long-running processes?
<pitti> "as few as possible"
<dobey> pitti: i mean, i recall seeing something that stated "long-running things should be written in X or Y langs, etc etc" sort of stuff
<pitti> it's hard to codify conditions under which we'd introduce one, I think; it's pretty  much a case by case decision/review
<pitti> dobey: like the U1 sync daemon *cough*
<dobey> pitti: maybe i can't find it because i'm looking for autostart
<pitti> but I don't think there's such a policy either
<seb128> dobey, they is no policy, it's just common sense
<seb128> dobey, or what people there will recommend you to do
<dobey> ok
<dobey> is there a wiki page or anything with such suggestions?
<seb128> defer io or cpu use, don't do those on session start if it's not required
<seb128> no
<dobey> hmm
<dobey> wonder where i saw it then
<pitti> hey seb128, how's Florida?
<seb128> well you are around linux for enough time to know what languages will have an init or mem use cost
<seb128> pitti, hey, dunno, ask me when I will be there
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> pitti, I'm travelling tomorrow
<pitti> ah, you're also flying tomorrow?
<pitti> gotcha
<didrocks> seb128: you are talking your flight out of France, right?
<seb128> talking my flight out of france?
<seb128> I'm talking about traveling to the sprint yes
<didrocks> taking*
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> yes, I'm flying to the u.s
<seb128> (I'm not sure I get the question)
<didrocks> telling that differently: from which airport do you have your flight?
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I'm flying from frankfurt
<seb128> I avoid countries where there is a strike every time we travel ;-)
<didrocks> ok, then you don't have to be stressed by eventual strikes like here (50% of flight might be canceled)
<didrocks> hehe, that was the point :-)
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> going to paris would not be an easier
<seb128> and I got used to travel with the germans
<seb128> I guess now I could travel with you guys as well
<didrocks> you don't want to join the French flight, I see that (dbarth, agateau and I) :)
<pitti> company policy - don't put everyone onto the same flight :-P
<seb128> didrocks, I flight with distro, not dx ;-)
<seb128> though this I tend to be earlier than everybody nowadays with sprints
<didrocks> argh :-) Those dx guys have bad influence on me :)
<seb128> I will be with mvo etc on the way back though
<seb128> not pitti I think because of plumber
<pitti> right, I'll fly on to Boston on Sat
<seb128> is anybody else going to plumbers with you?
<pitti> a few kernel guys
<seb128> pitti, ok
<nessita> sponsor wanted! ussoc natty first release: https://code.launchpad.net/~nataliabidart/ubuntu/natty/ubuntu-sso-client/ubuntu-sso-client-1.1.1/+merge/38716
<seb128> nessita, hey, I can do that
<nessita> seb128: awesome!
<mvo> seb128: \o/
<seb128> mvo, hey ;-)
<mvo> seb128: just a \o/ for being on the same flight :)
<mvo> (at least one way
<mvo> )
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, did you notice the evo merge request for 2.32 you received btw?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but it's not finished yet (no merge back from the latest changes in the 2.30 branch), tremolux will fix that and update the rest of the stack as well: evo-mapi/evo-exchange
<didrocks> sorry, not tremolux, cyphermox :)
<didrocks> (hey tremolux, cyphermox btw ;))
<seb128> ok
<tremolux> heya didrocks  :D
<seb128> I was not sure if you were watching evolution on launchpad or would see those out of a bugemails noisy boxc
<seb128> box
<cyphermox> hey didrocks
<didrocks> seb128: my filters seem to be not so bad in fact :)
<pitti> hey cyphermox, good morning
<seb128> hey cyphermox
<seb128> didrocks, great ;-)
<cyphermox> pitti, hey
<glatzor> hello mvo
<glatzor> servus seb128 and pitti
<seb128> hey glatzor
<pitti> hallo glatzor, wie gehts?
<cyphermox> didrocks, just finishing up testing builds, I'll let you know soon
<didrocks> cyphermox: great, even -mapi/-exchange?
<mvo> hey glatzor!
<cyphermox> couldn't find the -mapi branch though?
<didrocks> cyphermox: yeah, it's in universe, I just do the traditional workflow
<cyphermox> fair enough
<didrocks> thanks cyphermox :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: tomorrow I'll be traveling, so expect me to look at the merge on Wednesday
<cyphermox> well, I expect to be done today
<cyphermox> didrocks, so things will depend on how I split my time between this and synaptics, and then timezones ;)
<didrocks> (depends on when today, I still have to pack and getting up at 4 tomorrow, so won't be there for long :))
<glatzor> pitti, fine, and yourself?
<pitti> glatzor: I'm great, thanks!
<rickspencer3> hello all
<rickspencer3> please welcome jasoncwarner ... today is his first day, Engineering Manager, Destkop!!!!
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, this channel will soon become your "home base"!
<seb128> jasoncwarner, hey, welcome on board!
<jasoncwarner> Hi everyone!
 * pitti waves a big hello to jasoncwarner
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, you have a team meeting tomorrow!
<didrocks> welcome jasoncwarner :)
<tremolux> heyy jasoncwarner, welcome!
<rickspencer3> right here at 10:30am your time (I think)
<didrocks> and some folks will be in a plane during the team meeting :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, so I'll see you tomorrow!
<rickspencer3> sweet
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah! :-)
<pitti> nessita: hm, how did you manage to break dch to add a new [ commiter ] line for each change? :-)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, though I don't get in until quite late (10pm there)
<nessita> pitti: break?
<pitti> usually you have
<didrocks> rickspencer3: waow, quite late indeedâ¦
<pitti> [ Joe ]
<pitti> * fix foo
<pitti> * fix bar
<pitti> [ Jack ]
<pitti> * fix baz
<nessita> pitti: right
<nessita> pitti: and that breaks something?
<pitti> but not one [ Joe ] for each fix that Joe does
<pitti> nessita: not breaks, just makes it harder to read
<pitti> oh, and of course it's wasting CD bytes!!!11!
<nessita> pitti: ah... I will write it differently then, next time
<pitti> nessita: are you doing that manually? dch formats these quite nicely usually
<pitti> ah, could be that option in my ~/.devscripts:
<pitti> DEBCHANGE_MULTIMAINT_MERGE=yes
<nessita> pitti: I'm doing manually, yes. Where dch takes the info from? because when I use dch it adds nothing other than "New upstream release"
<seb128> rickspencer3, we were speaking about not having a meeting tomorrow but since jasoncwarner starts it might be nice to have one
<pitti> nessita: $DEBEMAIL, I figure
<seb128> rickspencer3, didrocks and I will be travelling
<seb128> jasoncwarner, ^
<nessita> pitti: I mean, where the changes info is taken from? because dch is not adding any change info
<rickspencer3> maybe we should skip the team meeting?
<rickspencer3> looks like jasoncwarner may be traveling
<seb128> jasoncwarner, sorry we just cross today, I will call it a day in one hour, I still have to pack and I'm travelling tomorrow
<pitti> nessita: no, of course not; it'll spawn an editor where you document the change; but it should add the [ committer ], the "*", update date stamp, and everything around it
<seb128> I will be at the sprint starting wednesday morning though
<didrocks> hum, packing, nice idea! just 9 hours before leaving :)
<pitti> nessita: not a big deal, I just wondered
 * pitti -> dinner
<nessita> pitti: do you have a link to point me to?
<nessita> pitti: I'd love to improve my changelog writting
<pitti> nessita: man dch isn't bad, and also points out all the options
<nessita> pitti: right, I'll check that. Thanks!
<pitti> nessita: usually they look like https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/2.4.2
<nessita> pitti: I will adopt this, thanks
<pitti> nessita: no worries :)
<pitti> dch is great
<nessita> I use it, it never complained :-)
<jasoncwarner> seb128: sure thing. I'm at UDS as well so no worries as long as we can talk then!
<pitti> jasoncwarner: did you figure out mumble yet, BTW?
<didrocks> time to pack there. See you tomorrow (at whatever timezone :))
<pitti> didrocks: have a safe trip!
<didrocks> pitti: thanks :)
<pitti> didrocks: and have fun doing your pushups in the plane :)
<didrocks> pitti: ony 150 remaining!!! I don't know if I would dare doing them in the plane or even at the airport :)
<pitti> wow
<pitti> I'm at 1680 now, so still a bit to go
<pitti> but my goal is to get 2000 by Fri evening
<didrocks> that should be more than doable :)
<pitti> absolutely, at my usual ~100/per day
<didrocks> right! bye bye! :)
 * pitti waves au revoir
<pitti> who would be a good person to ask a GTK theme question?
<pitti> s/ask/answer/
<seb128> rickspencer3, pitti: can you guys handle the meeting or no meeting tomorrow?
<pitti> I thought half the team was at the sprint anyway?
<rickspencer3> seb128, I can't, I'll be on the way to the airport
<pitti> I can moderate it, if there's something to talk about
 * pitti is still quite disconnected; however, last week @ oem :)
<seb128> pitti, I was planning to cancel it but since jasoncwarner started today I'm not sure now
<seb128> pitti, well, out of welcoming jasoncwarner I don't think there is
<seb128> just remaining people that they should have their specs registered
<pitti> TBH I'd rather set aside some time next week for an IRL meeting
<seb128> but I can do that in the no meeting email
<pitti> seb128: sounds fine to me
<seb128> works for me
<rickspencer3> seb128, but jasoncwarner might be in the air too
<rickspencer3> he's not sure what his travel schedule is going to be
<seb128> ok, let's just have no meeting
<seb128> we will catch up during sprint and uds
<seb128> I will send a note saying that
<seb128> ok?
<devildante> so when will be the uds meeting?
<seb128> I need to run, I will be on IRC still a bit later for an hour or so
 * devildante wants to join
<pitti> seb128: +1
<pitti> seb128: safe travels for you tomorrow, too!
<seb128> pitti, thanks!
<dobey> hrmm. it seems like using #include <gtk/gtk.h> means that it is impossible to use -Wall -Werror :(
<dobey> pitti: what sort of gtk+ theme question?
<pitti> dobey: if you use a theme which uses a bg_pixmap to do a gradient in the panel, like
<pitti> style "theme-panel"
<pitti> {
<pitti>         bg_pixmap[NORMAL]       = "/Panels/panel-bg-dark.png"
<pitti> then you can't have a vertical panel, since the bg pixmap won't be rotated along
<dobey> right
<pitti> so I wondered if (1) it could be rotated on demand somehow
<dobey> if you're going to use bg_pixmap, it must be a tileable image
<pitti> (like the panel would reconfigure its theme and rotate the pixmap)
<pitti> or (2) it could be done using murrine's gradient_shades option, which I can't find documentation for
<dobey> also, bg_pixmap is evil, and nobody should ever use it
<pitti> dobey: ok, so it's better to use the theme engine for that?
<pitti> I'm looking at/using shiki-colors-murrine, which uses bg_pixmap by default
<dobey> pitti: i think the panel sets different names for the panel orientations or something, so you can specify different theme bits for the vertical panels
<dobey> eww. yeah you should ust the theme engine for that
<dobey> or use the pixbuf engine and pixbufs
<pitti> dobey: ah, so I could define a "theme-panel-vertical" and assign that to something like
<dobey> but bg_pixmap is ancient gtk+ hackery
<pitti> widget <put something verticalish here> "*PanelWidget*"          style "theme-panel-vertical"
<dobey> pitti: yeah, something like that, i don't know what the match line would be exactly, but you can probably poke the panel with accerciser or something to get more info
<pitti> dobey: ok, thanks; so I'll play around with murrine's gradient_shades/gradient_colors options and see what they do, and above trick would be my last resort
<pitti> dobey: thanks muchly
<dobey> pitti: sure. if you want more info with murrine specifically, find Cimi and ask him :)
<pitti> ah, thanks
<pitti> /usr/share/themes/Ambiance/gtk-2.0/apps/gnome-panel.rc:bg_pixmap[NORMAL] = "img/panel.png"
<pitti> /usr/share/themes/Radiance/gtk-2.0/apps/gnome-panel.rc:bg_pixmap[NORMAL] = "img/panel.png"
<pitti> dobey: ^ same problem with our Ubuntu default theme..
<dobey> yep
<pitti> vertical panels look hideous
<dobey> bg_pixmap is sort of like doing bg_panda[SAD]
<devildante> mvo: around?
<pitti> good night everyone!
<devildante> good night :)
<devildante> tremolux : around?
<tremolux> devildante: yep, hi
<devildante> tremolux: hi :) here is some zeitgeist love: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ilidrissi.amine/software-center/zeitgeist-unused-applications
<nisshh> tremolux, btw, Pytask is almost done, i just have to finish the last little bit, should be done by wednesday :)
<tremolux> devildante: that looks slick!
<devildante> :)
<tremolux> nisshh: ah, nice!  I look forward to checking it out  :)
<nisshh> :)
<tremolux> nisshh: are you thinking to apply to the App Review Board with it then?
<nisshh> tremolux, i need to in order to get it on extras.ubuntu.com right?
<tremolux> nisshh: yep, now that Maverick is released the process is underway: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PostReleaseApps/Process
<nisshh> tremolux, cool, one thing i don't understand yet: if Pytask gets onto extras.ubuntu.com (for maverick), does it get into subsequent releases as well? (Natty)
<tremolux> nisshh: tho tbh I'm not sure where the ARB is in the reviewing process, etc.  We plan to have more talks about this at UDS
<nisshh> i see
<tremolux> nisshh: as I understand it, the two processes are separate
<nisshh> ah ok
<nisshh> tremolux, so i would only be getting Pytask into Maverick this way?
<devildante> nisshh: you could open a needs-packaging bug
<devildante> IIRC
<tremolux> nisshh: yes, then you could get it into Natty itself if you like
<nisshh> devildante, devildante well, i have had an offer from a MOTU to sponsor it for natty :)
<micahg> nisshh: no, extras is meant as it's own repo for stuff not going into the distro
<nisshh> oops
<devildante> lol
<nisshh> micahg, i see
<micahg> nisshh: if you want something in Natty, you should go for that and request a backport
<nisshh> right
<nisshh> micahg, this is the kind of thing that i have had trouble finding information on, it's a serious problem not having a well documented 'way of doing this' kind of thing
<micahg> nisshh: well, it is new, and the process will probably be discussed more at UDS
<nisshh> i expect so yea
<tremolux> nisshh, micahg: indeed
<micahg> the ARB apps are meant to be for the version they're accepted in only according to the original proposakl
<nisshh> micahg, so if i go the other route, and request it for Natty, will it automatically get accepted into the repos of future releases? or will i have to re-request each cycle?
<micahg> nisshh: which route?
<micahg> nisshh: archive uploads are copied forward (except backports)
<nisshh> micahg, the usual route that new apps take when first entering the repos
<nisshh> ah ok
<micahg> nisshh: but, the hope is that you'll continue to maintain the app then :)
<nisshh> well, that's the plan :)
<nisshh> because i would have to re-request Pytask to be accepted into extras just for maverick, i think it would be much easier to go the other way and request for Natty and request a backport
<nisshh> bah! i don't know
<nisshh> i don't know enough about the process to make a good decision
<nisshh> guess ill wait till it's discussed at UDS :)
<nisshh> night all :)
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, hey, RAOF and TheMuso and robert_ancell are here
<rickspencer3> (all .au based desktoppers)
<TheMuso> I for one, welcome our new overlord. :)
<rickspencer3> hehe
<rickspencer3> jasoncwarner, is working through "new starter tasks" today
<TheMuso> Understandable.
<RAOF> But what sort of overlord? Ant, robot, alien? :)
<TheMuso> lol
<rickspencer3> well, he's not listening apparantly, so get your jokes in while you can
<RAOF> Heh.
<robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hey
<robert_ancell> jasoncwarner, welcome!
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-10-19
<kklimonda> can someone take a look at bug 658069 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 658069 in gvfs (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 2 other projects) "Empty files written over gvfs by some editors (affects: 29) (dups: 3) (heat: 120)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658069
<Cimi> I'm in Orlando!
<Cimi> amazing place here guys
<kklimonda> Cimi: how's the weather?
<fagan> kklimonda: isnt it winter in florida this time of the year
<fagan> so it should be cold and wet
<kklimonda> fagan: how cold is cold for florida? ;)
<fagan> well I mean like raining hurricane style cold ish time of the year
<Cimi> kklimonda: sunshine
<Cimi> now it's evening
<kklimonda> this is actually a serious question - I still have to pack my bags ;)
<Cimi> but the sky is clear
 * RAOF opens a note for clothes packing.
 * fagan always packs the wrong things when going international 
<Cimi> kklimonda: 80Â°F/30Â°C
<kklimonda> Cimi: holy...
<Cimi> kklimonda: where are you from?
<kklimonda> it's going to be fun
<Cimi> kklimonda: there's a huge pool :)
<kklimonda> Cimi: Poland, it's around 4C here at the moment :)
<Cimi> kklimonda: so, it's like august in poland :)
<kklimonda> right, and I've lived through one August this year ;)
<Cimi> I'm from italy, the weather feels like june in my country
<RAOF> Mmm, midsummer.
<Tenyuu> does anyone know how to set shortcut keys to adjust backlight brightness? the only I can change my brightness is with the brightness applet, can anyone help me?
<kklimonda> Cimi: right, you are better suited for this weather ;)
<Cimi> kklimonda: are you coming tomorrow?
<kklimonda> Cimi: no, I arrive at sunday as a part of our awesome community :)
<Cimi> kklimonda: ok cool ;)
<pitti> Good morning
 * TheMuso sighs. Another big merge done. I aint a fan of them big merges.
<ara> TheMuso, ping
<dpm> hi mvo! Do you think it would be possible to have an aptdaemon maverick SRU with exported translations from Launchpad? They were not exported before release, and thus all authentication-related messages in Software Center appear untranslated. I've exported the translations from Launchpad and attached them to the bug to make it a bit easier to fix: bug 655642
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 655642 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Translations of .policy files were not exported (affects: 3) (dups: 2) (heat: 22)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655642
<mvo> dpm: yes
<mvo> dpm: I can do this
<mvo> dpm: and thanks for your work on this!
<dpm> mvo, awesome, thanks!
<mvo> yw!
<dpm> hi all, could someone give a hand with bug 451673 for an SRU? Yelp needs translations to be built with the package to appear translated. I've attached the translations exported from LP to the bug to make it a bit easier to fix
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 451673 in yelp (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Untranslated Yelp main page (Ubuntu Help Center) (affects: 3) (heat: 22)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451673
<cyphermox> hey
<kenvandine> hey cyphermox
<cyphermox> kenvandine, key
<mvo> cyphermox: great work on synaptic, you rock!
<mvo> cyphermox: I did some minor tweaks too, please merge from my branch too
<cyphermox> ok!
<cyphermox> it's still not all working though... I think there's still a lot missing (unless you already fixed all the combo boxes ;)
<mvo> I mostly tweaks the stuff around, like configure.in and debian/rules and po etc
<cyphermox> ah, cool
<mvo> it bzr-buildpackage now fine
 * pitti 0(*#$'s; how hard can it be to determine how wide a label text wants to be??
<rickspencer3> pitti, having fun with gtk?
<pitti> yes
<rickspencer3> pitti, I thought there was a function to tell you a label's text's length in pixels
<pitti> rickspencer3: there ought to be :)
<rickspencer3> I seem to recall seeing it in reference docs somewhere, but don't think I ever did it
<rodrigo_> today (in 2 hours) meeting, right?
<mterry> pitti, in a height-for-width context, it can be hard.  You want to know how long it is without wrapping?  pango has a function for that I believe
<pitti> mterry: I found something like gtk_label_get_layout() and then pango_layout_get_pixel_size (), I'm trying that now
<mterry> pitti, if you're talking gtk2, I think you can just query how much width the label has requested (size_request)
<pitti> mterry: already tried that, and it's always -1
<mterry> pitti, sounds like the label hasn't "realized" itself yet
<pitti> it is, I'm printing it on size changes, etc.
<pitti> gtk_widget_get_allocation() is another possibility, but that gives me the actual size, not the one that the text would have
<pitti> it's about the time/date string on the panel, and if I set the panel to vertical, it's chopped off
 * pitti -> meeting now
<mterry> pitti, hmm, I must be forgetting some reason it's -1.  but if no wrapping, pango layout is the way to go
<pitti> mterry: ok, thanks
<mvo> pitti: you might look at update-manager for a workaround for the missing height-for-width stuff with labels
<pitti> actually, it seems that this works:
<pitti>     pango_layout_get_pixel_size (gtk_label_get_layout (GTK_LABEL (datetime->date_label)), &w, &h);
<kenvandine> facebook says they are going to stop ignoring developers... so please everyone go vote on http://is.gd/g8ce0
<mterry> That won't include any widget or style padding or whatnot but yeah
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, i have to create an account to vote?
<kenvandine> yeah... that sucks :/
<kenvandine> you don't have to vote... but i really want as many votes as we can get :)
<kklimonda> kenvandine: facebook seriously limits api calls per application and not per user/applicatin?
<kenvandine> yes
<kklimonda> that's.. insane
<kenvandine> indeed!
<ara> rickspencer3, can you please point me to some documentation on how to create quickly plugins?
<kenvandine> and tons of people have complained and begged for help... but facebook just ignores it
<kenvandine> however they now claim they are going to stop ignoring!
<kenvandine> so we'll see :)
<rickspencer3> ara, not sure what you're looking for, do you mean a new template?
<rickspencer3> if so, didrocks has some good stuff on his blog, but he's not around atm, he's traveling to FL
<ara> rickspencer3, OK, I'll check his blog. And now that I know the terminology, I might find something ;-)
<rickspencer3> :)
<czajkowski> kenvandine: did you have any luck with contacts in FB re your blog post?
<kenvandine> enough that someone moved it from unconfirmed to NEW
<kenvandine> but the more votes the better...
<kenvandine> if it gets enough votes, it will end up being tracked on the platform status page
<czajkowski> kenvandine: mind if I pm you a comment from a fb enginner
<kenvandine> czajkowski, please do :)
<asac> kenvandine: i cannot add a second twitter account to gwibber? ;)
 * asac not sure if its a smart idea i first place
<OwaisL> guys, as a user I must say, Gwibber is the worst client I've seen.
 * OwaisL ready to dodge bullets. Matrix style. :P
<OwaisL> gwibber-service is cool. but the client. UI is terrible.. I mean look at any.. i mean ANY twitter or FB client. all are better.
<OwaisL> I think it should be re-written.
<czajkowski> kenvandine: see it pays to blog for help
<asac> OwaisL: write a better UI then ;)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i would have voted if i didn't have to create an account
 * asac fires fast bullets
<asac> hehe
<OwaisL> asac: haha.. I might have to do that if no one does.
<kenvandine> yeah, i should blog more often
<OwaisL> asac, i got one in the arm.. damn you.
<kenvandine> asac, does it think you are already logged in as the other use?
<asac> OwaisL: the natty cycle is just starting ;) ... so time to start on writing this
<asac> kenvandine: i hit "add ..." ... select "twitter" ... then hit the "Add" button and then it shows me my current twitter account
<asac> and allows me to hit authorize button
<asac> while i hoped i could select a 2nd user id
<chrisccoulson> hi asac!
<asac> good evining chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> how are you? looking forward to UDS?
<kenvandine> asac, right... ok there is already a bug filed about that
<asac> heh
<kenvandine> asac, webkit has cached the session or something
<asac> chrisccoulson: i am today still on vacation. tomorrow all comes back and i have to do lots of planning etc.
<kenvandine> we need to clear that
<asac> kenvandine: kk
<kenvandine> i'll try to look at it this week :)
<asac> chrisccoulson: but otherwise yes. i hope i can hop in the pool ;)
 * kenvandine has re-factored the crap out of gwibber this week already :)
<chrisccoulson> asac - did you know we have some guys from mozillamessaging at UDS next week?
 * kenvandine looks forward to being about to have individual packages for service plugins
<asac> chrisccoulson: i know that david ascher wanted to come ... who else?
<chrisccoulson> asac - bryan clark and david ascher are both going to be there
<asac> cool
<asac> chrisccoulson: any nice sessions for tbird?
<asac> saw you added like 3 under the app selection track
<kenvandine> asac, i also played with auto-saving on success but need to review that more
 * asac is unsure whether "indicator support for tbird" really belongs to the pacckaging selection track
<asac> kenvandine: where do your gwibber specs live this cycle?
<asac> other?
<chrisccoulson> asac - i didn't put it there - it was originally in "other"
<chrisccoulson> but they got renamed ;)
<asac> heh
<asac> ok
<chrisccoulson> rick created a general thunderbird blueprint
<asac> right
<kenvandine> asac,  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-gwibber-enhancements
<chrisccoulson> i need to do some planning really but i'm having gcc-4.5 issues
<asac> kenvandine: so work to be done against upstream is "appdevs"?
<kenvandine> well, best i could figure
<kenvandine> app selection, etc
<kenvandine> asac, i really struggled picking a category
<asac> heh... multimedia- ;)
<asac> social network is kind of a media ... so part of multi-media ;)
<kenvandine> i fear there will be a long list for "other"
<chrisccoulson> i put all of mine under other ;)
<chrisccoulson> and then most got renamed
<chrisccoulson> i wish launchpad would tell me when somebody renames them
<chrisccoulson> i only realised when all of my links were dead
<kenvandine> yeah
<asac> right. lets see
<asac> who runs the "other" track?
<czajkowski> kenvandine: logged all my niggly bugs, thanks
<kenvandine> woot
<kenvandine> link me please
<kenvandine> although i think i do actually get notified of new bugs now, finally
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/663376
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 663376 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Multicolumn doesn't remember layout after restart (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/663378
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 663378 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "replying to a @message in the indicator messes up the multicolumn display (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/663377
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 663377 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "No notification of Direct messages (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
<kenvandine> czajkowski, thx
<glatzor> bye mvo!
<glatzor> mvo, here is a "broken" debhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/clutterflow/files/banshee-extension-clutterflow.deb/download package
<glatzor> mvo, here is a "broken" deb http://sourceforge.net/projects/clutterflow/files/banshee-extension-clutterflow.deb/download package
<glatzor> mvo, i have to get home. already late :) see you
<devildante> mvo: around?
<and471> mvo, hey, is there a blueprint for software-updater at UDS?
<czajkowski> and471: you can search all bp via https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-n
<devildante> and471: btw, did you do any progress with software-updater?
<kklimonda>  /b 8
<kklimonda> sigh
<and471> devildante, not much beyond since I last spoke about it
<and471> devildante, I stopped o that it could be discussed at UDS so I knew that what I was working was definitely going to be adopted
<and471> czajkowski, thanks
<and471> czajkowski, tho it was a kind of "if he hadn't, he should do" :)
<devildante> it seems mvo is quite quiet these days...
<devildante> rather silent
<asac> jcastro: i renamed a blueprint a while back and now its broken on summit schedule ... will this recover on its own? or do i need to do something?
<and471> devildante, I guess he is eating
<devildante> ah
<jcastro> asac: when did you rename it?
<jcastro> asac: drag it off the schedule, wait an hour, and then it should autoschedule
<asac> jcastro: ok dragging off is required?
<asac> i think i renamed it 1-2h ago
<jcastro> probably
<asac> but not 100% sure
<jcastro> nor me
<asac> let me just wait another few
<asac> jcastro: but well done that it picks up the linaro bps ;)... thanks!
<asac> was just magic!
<jcastro> asac: that's all Daviey
<jcastro> I am just the mean cop making people rename things
<asac> thanks daviey ... lets collect and get a bunch of beers for him!
 * Daviey perks up
<Daviey> Ah, renames aren't currently well handled... you will find you have a duplicate session :/
<Daviey> asac: go into the admin UI and delete the old one. It's under http://summit.ubuntu.com/admin/schedule/meeting/
<asac> Daviey: ok great. but the new name gets scheduled?
<Daviey> yes
<devildante> what's the timezone in the schedule? GMT?
<asac> devildante: local time Orlando, FL
<devildante> thanks
<devildante> but I'm a little "nervous"
<devildante> one of the sessions I created, I might not attend to it in time
<devildante> oh well
<czajkowski> devildante: have you marked yourself as mandatory for the session ?
<devildante> hmm, no
<devildante> stupid me :p
<devildante> is there still time to reschedule it?
<czajkowski> devildante: no stupid, you just didnt know.
<devildante> :)
<ssalley> I'm a developer at Likewise supporting the likewise-open project. I'm going to be able to attend UDS for only a bit and was wondering if there was a particular day or two that would be good for meeting people and putting faces to names. So then people will know who to visualize when they're cursing me :-)
<mvo> hey devildante - looks like we are currently unlucky when it comes to timing :) when you come online I usually left already
<mvo> devildante: you are on OMGubuntu :)
<mvo> devildante: and your branch is cool, I just would like to see a additional check that the unused app will not remove ubuntu-desktop if it gets removed
<kenvandine> asac, my bug is up to #12 on the facebook most popular list :)  yay to community!
<asac> wow
<asac> seems not many are contributing to fb then ;)
<asac> (if ubuntu community can matter)
<asac> user question from stupid me: how do i officially get a new place in the "Places" menu? like $HOME/Downloads ?
<kenvandine> asac, i think that is called a bookmark in nautilus
 * asac found a menu and tries
<asac> hmm "Add Bookmarks ..." does nothing
<asac> and "Edit bookmarks" has no "add" button ;)
<kenvandine> just did for me
<charlie-tca> drag the folder to the left column
<asac> where?
<asac> oh
<asac> i am in spatial mode ;)
<kenvandine> so browse to the folder you want and "Bookmarks->Add bookmark
<kenvandine> ah!
<asac> ah let me try that
 * kenvandine forgot that even existed :)
<asac> ok now i understand ... add bookmark adds the current folder
<asac> that was not really clear to me ;)
<icek> hi, my eth0 was getting an ip on dhcp but now it wont work, it keeps saying no DHCPOFFERS received.....  it was working just great now it wont work :/ its plugged into my router any advice?
<asac> yeah it did it
<asac> but i want a special icon for Downloads ... like Documents Videos etc.
<asac> anyway ... thats good enough
 * asac finally took this measure to stop his Desktop from overflowing with zillion of downloads
<cyphermox> pitti, ping
<xteejx> Hi all
<xteejx> libchamplain wants to install 2 build-deps, libgirepository1.0-dev and gir-repository-dev
<xteejx> both provide some or all of the same files, but not sure which to remove/install
<xteejx> Anyone able to help please?
<geser> xteejx: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gir-repository and check the changelog entry for the recent natty upload :)
<xteejx> geser: I see reference to gir, but I'm confused, sorry
<geser> xteejx: the file conflict got resolved in the most recent upload (-6ubuntu10) but as it FTBFS you still only have the old debs available (with the file conflict)
<xteejx> so apt-get upgrade?
<geser> yes, once the FTBFS got resolved
<xteejx> but -6ubuntu10 was published 4 days ago?
<geser> the source but it failed to build
<xteejx> ohhh gir ftbfs I see, so that needs fixed first?
<geser> yes
<xteejx> geser: Ok, thanks for clearing that up, I'll get on it :)
<geser> then you get the debs for -6ubuntu10 you need to install both build-dependencies of libchamplin to check if the FTBFS is fixed there too
<xteejx> Ahhh that makes sense now
<xteejx> Thanks again geser :)
<xteejx> geser: gir is in main, are we allowed to work on ftbfs for those?
<geser> xteejx: you should perhaps ask seb128 if he (or somebody) else is already working on this before you do double work
<xteejx> that answers my question then :)
<geser> xteejx: sure, why not. You just need a sponsor who can upload it for you.
<xteejx> cool :)
<ronoc> shuerhaaken, hey just fetched the update
<ronoc> but now there is no plugin option for the sound menu ?
<shuerhaaken> hello conor
<ronoc> hows it going ?
<shuerhaaken> the soundmenu is back in
<ronoc> oh cool
<shuerhaaken> fine
<shuerhaaken> how about you
<ronoc> grand in Orlando for a pre ?
<ronoc> UDS sprint
<shuerhaaken> stress gone after release of maverick?
<ronoc> pretty much
<ronoc> getting ready for natty development
<ronoc> prototyping some nice pulse stuff at the moment
<shuerhaaken> pulse stuff?
<ronoc> recording streams straight from the server, and trying to automatically identify using the echonest audio fingerprinting api
<ronoc> yup
<shuerhaaken> nice!
<ronoc> aye
<shuerhaaken> pulse audio has  this stream tagging
<ronoc> stream tagging ?
<shuerhaaken> i'm not sure how it is called
<shuerhaaken> i updated xnoise plugins four hours ago. with soundmenu
<shuerhaaken> for maverick
<ronoc> oh great
<ronoc> will take down
<shuerhaaken> i had bad critiques after the last release
<ronoc> oh how come
<shuerhaaken> not good for large collections
<ronoc> UI response
<ronoc> yeah I read about that
<ronoc> will test later and come back to you if I notice anything
<ronoc> going go for a run !
<ronoc> get healthy !
<ronoc> talk later
<shuerhaaken> ok. bye
<icek> hey, i set up a router ubuntu-server   i used dhcpd and firestarter but now i want to use cacti to do cool analysis and graphs to watch my network.... how do i do this? just install cacti?
<micahg> icek: try asking in #ubuntu-server
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-10-20
<william_> hello?
<RAOF> !hi | william_
<ubot2> Factoid 'hi' not found
 * RAOF needs to interact with the bot more, clearly.
<RAOF> Anyway, what are you after? :)
<vish> RAOF Â¦ !hi was removed recently, since a few people were very fond of abusing it.. :)
<william_> is there a graphical utility (preferably gtk) for finding file duplicates?
<RAOF> Probably, but this isn't the right place for that question; #ubuntu would be the right IRC channel.
<william_> :(
<william_> they're verry chatty
<jcastro> william_: or askubuntu.com!
<cyphermox> jcastro, +1 :)
<micahg> william_: or answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<cyphermox> hey micahg
<ajmitch> jcastro: you haven't blogged about that for a few days now!
<micahg> hi cyphermox
<vish> ajmitch Â¦ yeah, jcastro is now just spam advertising on channels ;p
 * vish hides..
<cyphermox> vish, add IM to that too ;)
<vish> hehe! and we now have palaeontology to watch out for too ;)
<cyphermox> O.o?
<RAOF> Dinosaurs!
<RAOF> On a StackExchange!
<RAOF> Starring Samuel L Jackson!
 * robert_ancell resizes his vm for the third time.  Seriously webkit - why do you take more than 2G of free space to build...
<RAOF> If it only takes 2G you're not building it often enough!
<TheMuso> lol
<pitti> Good morning
<htorque> hello everyone! during an update i've found a couple of non-localized console messages and i need help finding the corresponding packages for some of them: http://paste.ubuntu.com/516705/
<htorque> also, a status message in update-manager (there are probably more): http://img.xrmb2.net/images/882517.png - would this be the update-manager's fault?
<mvo> htorque: is the apt output in the terminal in english as well?
<mvo> htorque: that messages come from aptdaemon (and in turn from apt) but this smells like aptdaemon did not init a german environment
<mvo> for apt
<htorque> mvo, no, it's localized (german)
<mvo> heh :) that is odd
<mvo> and all strings there are english?
<mvo> i mean, in the small status message label?
<htorque> i captured that by accident, so i can't tell
<htorque> mvo, yes they are all english except those between phases (i guess they are from update-manager)
<mvo> htorque: thanks, I can reproduce this but for me all the dpkg messages in the terminal window are english as well
<mvo> htorque: bug #641262
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 641262 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Status strings during update do not show up translated (affects: 2) (dups: 1) (heat: 144)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641262
<htorque> mvo, ah, thanks! :-) do you also have an idea where those console messages ("Rebuilding ...", "Running ...", "Examing ...", "... deferred processing now taking place") come from?
<mvo> htorque: its all the same issue, the environment in that apt is run is not set to the locale
<mvo> so everything started in there (dpkg, maintainer scripts) will be english
<htorque> but if i do a "apt-get upgrade" most of the output is translated?
<mvo> htorque: yes, because that runs in a environment (your terminal) with the locale (LANGUAGE, LANG environment) set to the right values. aptdaemon runs outside of your user session, this is the problem
<mvo> htorque: I have a idea for a fix, looking at it now
<htorque> ah, i see
<mvo> htorque: I pushed a fix to lp:~mvo/aptdaemon/0.3-dpkg-i18n
<htorque> mvo, thanks! will give it a try, do i need to reboot to test?
<mvo> htorque: you wil l have to restart aptdaemon
<mvo> htorque: a reboot is fine as well (the savest way :)
 * htorque reboots then ;-)
<htorque> mvo, there was still a message "Downloading ..." but the rest was translated :-)
<mvo> htorque: yeah, I just fixed that too ;)
<htorque> mvo, no change in the console though: still getting mixed output containing Examing.../Running.../Not updating...
<mvo> htorque: some messages from maintainer scripts are not translatable  - but the dpkg stuff (unpacking) should be, no?
<htorque> mvo, yes that stuff is translated except for a "Done." after the end of the "Preparing to replace ..." phase
<mvo> htorque: thanks, I just played with it some more and it seems like its mostly there now I will ask sebstian to review the branch and if he is fine with it I upload to maverick-proposed
<htorque> mvo, thanks! do you think reports and/or patches on those untranslatable strings in scripts are welcome? admittedly, most desktop users should never come across this "mixed" output, but it's not nice to look at.
<mvo> htorque: its woth investigating
<nessita> good morning everyone! question about SRUs: once the bugs nominated for SRU are marked as verification-done, what's the next step? I can't find that info in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and the package is still on moverick-proposed
<Laney> nessita: Someone will come along and move it to -updates in time
<nessita> Laney: ok, thanks
<nisshh> jcastro, got a minute?
<bilalakhtar> kenvandine: Congrats on that FB bug :) I never knew they had a Bugzilla! BTW, is there any application that has an exception in such API calls?
<kenvandine> no idea
<bilalakhtar> must be having
<bilalakhtar> like the Facebook iPhone apps
<kenvandine> not sure how mobile apps deal with it...
<kenvandine> they probably have commercial deals
<kenvandine> but... regardless there is something wrong... the numbers are way too skewed
<bilalakhtar> On their dev home page, they say 'We use open-source software and support it'
<bilalakhtar> then why don't they support Ubuntu and Gwibber?
<kenvandine> yeah... they do use it :)
<kenvandine> to be fair i think they contribute a ton to some of the server stuff they use
<kenvandine> and i think they pretty much ignore all developers equally :)
<kenvandine> not just ubuntu/gwibber
 * bilalakhtar has to go now, sorry
<kenvandine> but i jumped on the opportunity for them to back up their blog post about turning that around
<kenvandine> hey rickspencer3!
<rickspencer3> wow, what a pounce
<kenvandine> my bug is #1 on facebook's most popular :)
<rickspencer3> lol
<kenvandine> have a good trip?
<rickspencer3> nice job, my friend, nice job
<rickspencer3> yeah, but heads down in the sprint
<kenvandine> figured
<rickspencer3> going to log off freenode
<rickspencer3> ttyl
<kenvandine> i am going to be heading out for a bit
<ehcah> why is that running: "sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart "  releases and renews ip's for eth0 and eth1 on my servers.  But on my laptop, it does nothing?
<ehcah> Is there a different command to release and renew ip's for a desktop OS?  I also notice that there is nothing configured under the interfaces file, as you would on a server?
<cyphermox> ehcah, if you're using network-manager (and don't have stuff in /etc/network/interfaces) you most likely want to click on nm-applet and your connection again... that said, you should ask follow up questions on #ubuntu
<ehcah> cyphermox:  Did I take Ubuntu-Desktop out of context?  My appologies.
<cyphermox> ehcah, the purpose of this channel is developement, that's all. #ubuntu is where you want to go for help and support
<ehcah> sorry about that. Thank you for the headsup.
<cyphermox> np
<chrisccoulson_> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson_> how's orlando?
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson_
<seb128> the hotel is nice that's all I can tell ;-)
<bilalakhtar> seb128: Arrived at orlando?
<chrisccoulson_> heh :)
<bilalakhtar> COOL!
<seb128> weather is nice but climat control cold
<bilalakhtar> I would definitely have applied for sponsorship, but missed the deadline
<chrisccoulson_> i guess i should start preparing for travelling ;)
<devildante> I have too much work to even consider sponsorship :p
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson_, leaving soon as well?
<bilalakhtar> devildante: I mean, sponsorship for UDS
<chrisccoulson_> cyphermox, on saturday morning, but i'm leaving my house really really early
<cyphermox> also, hey chrisccoulson_ , seb128
<devildante> bilalakthar: yes, that's what I meant :)
<cyphermox> chrisccoulson_, ah. I don't leave until sunday noon
<chrisccoulson_> that's not too bad then :)
<cyphermox> I guess I shouldn't complain too much, no :)
<chrisccoulson_> i've got to travel from birmingham to manchester on saturday morning
<bilalakhtar> devildante: you spelt my nick wrong
<chrisccoulson_> so i suspect i might just go to sleep on my flight ;)
<devildante> dang
<devildante> I always have problems with your name :p
<chrisccoulson_> tab completion ;)
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson_: Where d'you live?
 * devildante didn't know that trick
<chrisccoulson_> you only need to type "bil" ;)
<devildante> thanks chrisccoulson_ :)
<bilalakhtar> !tab | devildante
<chrisccoulson_> bilalakhtar, i leave just outside of birmingham in the UK
<ubot2> devildante: You can use your <tab> key for autocompletion of nicknames in IRC, as well as for completion of filenames and programs on the command line.
<bilalakhtar> bilalakhtar: ah
<bilalakhtar> lol
<bilalakhtar> chrisccoulson_: okay
<devildante> devildante: ah
<devildante> :p
<cyphermox> not all cli tricks are good in xchat at least though... control-W bites me often (closes window)
<czajkowski> Keybuk: you free for a quick pm ?
<Keybuk> sure
<czajkowski> thanks
<c_korn> I have to restart gnome several times until the ubuntu theme is loaded successfully. until then gnome looks like this: http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/qh5o4bxp/Auswahl_007.png
<devildante> gnome-settings-daemon failure, I suppose
<c_korn> problem does not exist on my notebook. maybe because I have a SSD in my desktop pc?
<devildante> I think this is not related
<c_korn> hm,ok. was an error logged somewhere?
<devildante> but I'm not a expert
<devildante> idk
<c_korn> maybe this is related: http://pastebin.com/Ha3ry7Z3
<and471> c_korn, devildante yup looks like gnome-settings-daemon failure, what happens if you run gnome-setting-daemon in a terminal ?
<c_korn> http://pastebin.com/JRJmKd4M
<and471> c_korn, try installing gnome-settings-daemon then :)
<c_korn> sry, I thought the package was not installed. but only a typo. http://pastebin.com/ni7GAAQT
<c_korn> but now the ubuntu theme is loadedâ¦
<and471> hmm, that error message should mean it is running
<and471> was happens if you run it when it isn't loaded?
<c_korn> I have to rebbot for this. brb
<c_korn> *reboot
<c_korn> and471: the theme is not loaded now. the error message from paste http://pastebin.com/ni7GAAQT is output
<and471> c_korn, and is gnome-setting-daemon running (ps -A)
<and471> ?
<c_korn> $ ps aux | grep gnome-setting
<c_korn> korn      2406  0.1  0.3 384100 12440 ?        Ssl  18:16   0:00 /usr/lib/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon
<c_korn> yep
<and471> hmm that is weird
<and471> c_korn, anything in .xsessionerrors?
<and471> sorry .xsession-errors
<c_korn> http://pastebin.com/wTeDVQcN
<and471> c_korn, can you paste ps -A
<chrisccoulson_> You can only run one xsettings manager at a time; exiting - do you have any other desktop environments installed?
<c_korn> http://pastebin.com/3QTLcn9E
<c_korn> nope, fresh ubuntu 10.10 installation
<chrisccoulson_> what user is running that instance of gnome-settings-daemon? it's not the gdm user is it?
<c_korn> it happened after the very first boot of the system. I thought it was because of the missing nvidia drivers. but installing them did not make a difference
<c_korn> chrisccoulson_: http://pastebin.com/ncH88NhT I am user "korn"
<and471> chrisccoulson_, c_korn I can't see any other xsettings managers in that ps -A
<c_korn> is ps aux more verbose? http://pastebin.com/cDuKrHw5
<c_korn> this is dmesg if it is of any interest: http://pastebin.com/kJ3jYBHW
<c_korn> should I file a bug?
<and471> I think so
<c_korn> against what?
<and471> gsd I think
<c_korn> bug 664010
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 664010 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Have to restart gnome several times until Ubuntu theme loads (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664010
<c_korn> any more information required ?
<and471> c_korn, I don't think so, if not the bug triagers will ask for it
<c_korn> may I add the information that this is a fresh installation of ubuntu 10.10, that the bug accured also after the very first run and that the bug does not exist on my notebook (which has 10.10 until beta installed I think and fully updated now) which (in contrast to my desktop pc) has no SSD?
<and471> c_korn, yeah just put as much info as you can
<voel> how long does GEDecrypt take to make a 20 gig encrypted partition on ext3(obviously)
<Shred00> didrocks: i think the evolution package is missing a Build-Depends
<Shred00> didrocks: or it might just be a simple as not telling configure --enable-gtk-doc:
<Shred00> checking whether to build gtk-doc documentation... no
<Shred00> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/share/gtk-doc': No such file or directory
<didrocks> Shred00: hum? the last upload built well https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/2.30.3-1ubuntu7
<didrocks> Shred00: you didn't answer me last time about if it worked btw
<Shred00> didrocks: yeah.  i'd be surprised if it didn't.  just reporting what i got here.
<didrocks> and didn't get the patch btw :)
<Shred00> didrocks: yes.  i don't have time every day to work on this stuff.  i typically only get time a couple of times a week.
<didrocks> Shred00: right, but I think the issue is related to your patch. You should touch something which requires rebuilding the documentation, which we don't do generally
<Shred00> didrocks: fwiw, i filed a bug in LP and pointed to a bz bug with the patch and it got assessed in LP as some sort of low importance iirc.
<didrocks> Shred00: can you point me to the bug report, please?
<didrocks> Shred00: pinging on IRC is easier, and as you ping me, you can just point me to integrate it :)
<Shred00> didrocks: it's got nothing to do with touching the documentation.  configure clearly said it was not going to build the documentation:
<Shred00> checking whether to build gtk-doc documentation... no
<didrocks> Shred00: well, it's again difficult without the branch, just point me to your branchâ¦ but gtk-doc is for building the documentation
<Shred00>   --enable-gtk-doc        use gtk-doc to build documentation [[default=no]]
<Shred00> you see, it defaults to not building unless you specify the flag
<didrocks> I know
<didrocks> but it seems you are doing something which triggers that
<didrocks> so, please point to the branch so that I can check
<Shred00> triggers what?  not building the documentation?
<didrocks> Shred00: trying to build it
<Shred00> what do you mean point you a branch?  fwiw, i don't know how to use bzr beyond what i learned to get a copy of your work.  tbh i really don't have the time to learn to use yet another SCM that i would use very rarely.  not sure what's wrong with git given that more people know how to use it as it has much wider use than bzr.
<didrocks> Shred00: please, try to be constructive. Just point me to the patch then, so that I can apply it
<didrocks> and see why it triggers the doc build
<Shred00> didrocks: my patch has nothing to do with the doc build.  the doc build is required because debian/evolution-dev.install has debian/tmp/usr/share/gtk-doc in it.
<Shred00> my patch is for e-d-s, not evolution.
<didrocks> Shred00: well, I don't see why you are so resistant to show me your patch. If I can't test, I can't help you I'm afraid
<didrocks> the only thing I can say is that "it doesn't fail here"
<didrocks> so if you don't give me something to test, I can't
<didrocks> debian/evolution-dev.install has debian/tmp/usr/share/gtk-doc to copy it, not building it
<Shred00> didrocks: right.  and how is it going to get put into debian/tmp if the evolution build does not build it?
<didrocks> Shred00: it doesn'tâ¦ I can't continue to loose my time speaking about something I can't test there if you don't show me what's wrong (ie the code)
<Shred00> didrocks: my patch is from bz 631526
<seb128> Shred00, because upstream ships html built in their tarball
<seb128> Shred00, so usually we don't rebuild those but just use what upstream has
<Shred00> seb128: ahhh.  ok.  so looking in the evolution_2.30.3.orig.tar.gz the only matches i see for "gtk-doc" are:
<Shred00> evolution-2.30.3/m4/gtk-doc.m4
<Shred00> evolution-2.30.3/gtk-doc.make
<seb128> get the source from ubuntu and build it using dpkg-buildpackage
<seb128> it builds fine on buildds so the build-depends are correct
<Shred00> didrocks: in any case, regarding my e-d-s patch, it works and i've attatched it to LP 660626
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 660626 in evolution-data-server (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "X-Evolution-Source header missing (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660626
<didrocks> Shred00: great, thanks
<cyphermox> didrocks, do you have spare time to look at my branches for evolution? :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: not really right now TBH :) did you update evo-exchange and evo-mapi? (I saw another merge request on evo-indicator)
<cyphermox> yeah, I added those
<didrocks> cyphermox: great!
<cyphermox> and found out today that gnome-panel and empathy will need a rebuild :)
<didrocks> cyphermox: I'll try this week-end I guess
<cyphermox> I'm sure there are others
<didrocks> well, no hurry, I think we will update to dev version as well
<cyphermox> ok
<Shred00> didrocks: LP bugs 664167 and 664179
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 664167 in evolution-data-server (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "need upstream patch from bug 615274 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664167
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 664179 in modemmanager (Ubuntu) "modemmanager (network-manager-applet) creates high cpu temperature while mobilephone (LG Arena) is used as modem. (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664179
<Shred00> didrocks: oops.  LP bugs 664167 and 664169
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 664169 in evolution (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "need upstream patch from bug 631526 (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664169
<Shred00> neat feature that ubot2.  :-)
 * cyphermox -> eod
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-10-21
<jderose> jcastro: aquarius told me to ping you about making sure my blueprint is setup correctly for UDS
<jderose> it's still not on the schedule, don't know if i did something wrong: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-n-distributed-media-library
<aquarius> jderose, heh, asac has just this moment commented on it to explain why it hasn't shown up :)
<jderose> ah, didn't see that yet. :) asac: so can i rename the blueprint, or do i create a new one? thanks for the help!
<fagan> jderose: where did you move it to?
<jderose> Alright, renamed: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-ubuntuone-distributed-media-library Thanks aquarius, asac!
<fagan> that answers that
<fagan> jderose: I dont think that is correctly named
<jderose> fagan: okay, what should it be? (I just copied what asac suggested)
<fagan> I think there is supposed to be a -n there somewhere too
<fagan> so it should be multimedia-ubuntuone-n-<title>
<jderose> fagan: hmm, i don't see "-n-" in any of the 5 latest additions here: https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-n
<fagan> most of the ones im subscribed to have a -n in there
<jderose> can't hurt. :) renaming...
<jderose> fagan: how's this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-ubuntuone-n-distributed-media-library
<fagan> looks good
<jderose> fagan: one other thing i'm unsure of is who the Approver should be.  Is there a specific approver for each track/team? I just picked aquarius cuz it sounded fun. :)
<fagan> its whoever approves the blueprint so its for when the plan is approved to be put in motion
<fagan> so just leave it as is and that will be all worked out later
<jderose> ah, okay, i thought
<jderose> Approver was related to getting scheduled, now i understand. thx.
<fagan> no no its not about being scheduled
<fagan> its all good it will be added later
<fagan> like my one is scheduled and it has no approver https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-desktop-n-encouraging-game-development
<jderose> fagan: ah, okay, thanks. and that's a great blueprint, btw!
<fagan> jderose: yeah I put a lot of work into the idea thanks
<jderose> definitely an exciting, important area
<pitti> Good morning
<tjaalton> how does gnome decide which pdf reader is the default? it doesn't seem to obey /etc/mailcap
<tjaalton> morning pitti :)
<pitti> tjaalton: I think /usr/share/applications/evince.desktop does that
<pitti> MimeType=application/pdf;application/x-bzpdf;...
<pitti> I just don't know how it decides about default priorities when there are more than one program
<tjaalton> pitti: right, there are other apps that have the same
<pitti> /usr/share/mime/packages/freedesktop.org.xml is relevant here (from shared-mime-types), but it only gives some names to MIME types, not apps
<tjaalton> hmm ok, I'll keep searching
<glatzor> hello mvo
<glatzor> I added a crash module to aptdaemon. it now includes some interesting configuration data. See lp #664354
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 664354 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "<type 'exceptions.SystemError'>: E:UngÃ¼ltige Archiv-Signatur (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/664354
<zyga> ivanka, '0', '1' t-shirts are _awesome_
<mvo> glatzor: cool, let me check
<mvo> glatzor: nice!
<glatzor> hello pitti
<glatzor> pitti, it seems that the annotation of my bug reports are not shown by apport-gtk
<glatzor> pitti, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/main/annotate/head:/aptdaemon/crash.py
<pitti> hey glatzor
<pitti> glatzor: hm, report = apport.Report("AptDaemonCrash") might be the reason -- try "Crash"?
<pitti> glatzor: does it write the reports into /var/crash?
<glatzor> right
<pitti> the ProblemType field is defined pretty rigidly (see doc/data-format.tex)
<ivanka>  zyga: thank you!
<zyga> ivanka, I'll make sure to send my photo to the stream :)
<ivanka> zyga: do! it is an important ingredient
<bilalakhtar> bratsche: Any news on GTK RGBA for natty?
<bratsche> bilalakhtar: Nope.
<bratsche> bilalakhtar: There is a ton of churn going on inside gdk right now, and it makes sense to focus on other things.  Like animation. :)
<bratsche> But I would like to do this still.
<bilalakhtar> bratsche: Yup, and the move to GTK 3 is a big task
<bratsche> Well, that's what I'm talking about.  There's no point in trying to do RGBA fu in gtk2, and the new rendering branch hasn't been fully merged into 3 yet.
<eagles0513875> hey Riddell i have a question for you if you have a minute
<mvo> jcastro: hey, I was just looking over the schedule and could not find a ratings&reviews softare-center sesssion for next week. is there a way to get a list of *all* scheduled session on one page? ma<be I just overlooked it? if not, could you schedule it please?  this is the spec https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-sofware-center-ratings
<jcastro> mvo: it's not on the schedule because it hasn't been proposed for uds-n
<jcastro> oubiwann: you wrote this original spec, can you rename it and set it to uds-n?
<mvo> thanks jcastro
<jcastro> mvo: I don't have the rights to edit it but maybe oubiwann does
<seb128> hey
<Cimi> ciao seb128 :)
<seb128> hey Cimi!
<pedro_> salut seb128!
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128!
<seb128> hey pedro_ chrisccoulson
<seb128> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - good thanks. and you? enjoying orlando?
<seb128> I'm fine thanks
<seb128> I've not seen much of Orlando but the hotel is nice
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i can imagine. i keep telling my gf that i probably won't see much of orlando
<chrisccoulson> (just to make her feel better)
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<Cimi> chrisccoulson: the hotel actually could be much better than orlando :)
<chrisccoulson> as long as there is a bar, then i will be happy :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no need to worry then, there is a bar ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128 - excellent :)
<chrisccoulson> i arrive mid-afternoon, which will be like evening for me
<chrisccoulson> so, straight to the bar :)
<chrisccoulson> (on saturday)
<chrisccoulson> hi nessita
<chrisccoulson> looking forward to UDS?
<nessita> chrisccoulson: hey there! yes, how about you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm looking forward to it :)
<Shred00> didrocks: did you see my msg yesterday with two more upstream evo patches?
<didrocks> hey Shred00
<didrocks> Shred00: let me backlog
<Shred00> didrocks: i can repeat if you like
<didrocks> that's fine, one sec :)
<didrocks> Shred00: they sound to qualify for an SRU (once the current one will have sleep in the release). Do you want to work on backporting them to 2.30?
<Shred00> didrocks: done already.  i can attach the debian/patches to the respective LP bugs if you wish
<didrocks> Shred00: that will be great :) also, can you please retitle the bug to be more explicit and add a testcase to them as I've done for the previous SRU?
<Shred00> didrocks: done
<didrocks> Shred00: great, I'll have a look at them after UDS (so, in a little bit more than week). That way, we will have evo and e-d-s copied in -updates I guess
<kenvandine> pitti, ping
<pitti> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey pitti :)
<kenvandine> could you look at a few SRUs ?
<pitti> I'm already doing that
<kenvandine> great
<kenvandine> papyon seems pretty urgent
<pitti> haven't done gwibber yet, the diff is OMGbig
<kenvandine> yeah, i fixed a ton of bugs :)
<kenvandine> tomboy would be good to
<kenvandine> but the papyon bug got nearly 50 comments over night...
<pitti> ah, the MSN thing, right
<pitti> kenvandine: papyon> we can copy m-proposed to natty, so don't worry about a natty upload
<pitti> kenvandine: is bug 627744 actually an issue in indicator-application?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 627744 in tomboy (Ubuntu Natty) (and 5 other projects) "Tomboy note names are blank in the Application Indicator fallback menu (affects: 14) (dups: 2) (heat: 96)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/627744
<kenvandine> no
<kenvandine> it is in the appindicator patch for tomboy
<pitti> ok, please invalidate that task then
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> for gwibber i might have another upload real soon... with a more reliable fix for the libproxy crasher
<kenvandine> what is in unapproved is much better than what is in maverick now... but it still crashes sometimes on amd64
<kenvandine> but it won't be before tomorrow, i need to let it run for a while
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks for working on that
<kenvandine> np
<seb128> kenvandine, jcastro, rodrigo__: do you know what are the tombiy plans for this cycle?
<kenvandine> i don't
<seb128> kenvandine, jcastro, rodrigo__: do you know what are the tomboy plans for this cycle?
<seb128> context, it should stop using bonobo
<seb128> so either the applet needs to be ported to the new dbus applet protocol or to be dropped
<seb128> is the applet doing anything different from the appindicator or status icon?
<jcastro> seb128: most of the plans are snowy related, nothing major desktop wise afaik
<seb128> jcastro, what will they do from the applet in the gnome-shell world?
<seb128> can somebody try to figure?
<jcastro> he has no idea what to do yet
<seb128> would they be unhappy at us if we just drop the applet from our build?
<jcastro> I asked him last week, I bet he'll sort something at the summit
<jcastro> I can ask
<seb128> jcastro, that would be nice
<seb128> thanks
<rodrigo__> seb128: not really in detail
<seb128> without the applet we could drop the gnomevfs-cil out of default installation
<seb128> libgnomeui-cil as well
<kklimonda_> has it been decided for how long are we going to ship both gtk2 and gtk3?
<devildante> kklimonda_: idk, but I suppose we'll ship both of them for 11.04
<chrisccoulson> definately, seeing as firefox will not be using gtk3 for a while anyway
<kklimonda_> heh, firefox and its "gtk+" support ;)
<fagan> chrisccoulson: but will firefox be shipped?
<kklimonda_> "support" ;)
<chrisccoulson> fagan - i hope so!
 * fagan would love if we had Chromium 
<kklimonda_> fagan: imo chrome still isn't a perfect replacement for firefox at this point
 * devildante would wait for firefox 4
<fagan> yeah i know that but chromium is better in terms of the tech in it
<chrisccoulson> why?
<micahg> devildante: ppa:mozillateam/firefox-next for beta 6 :)
<fagan> well webkit is a much better engine
<devildante> micahg, thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> is it? :/
<chrisccoulson> in what way is it better?
<fagan> and xul isnt good at all
<kklimonda_> chrisccoulson: didn't you get a memo? ;)
<micahg> fagan: nope, Firefox 4 just passed webkit on teh sunspider test :P
<chrisccoulson> fagan - what isn't good about it?
<chrisccoulson> i think our security team will disagree about webkit being better ;)
<kklimonda_> chrisccoulson: I guess the main problem with xul that people have is lack of stable api and abi
<chrisccoulson> right, but who cares about that for the browser. that doesn't really affect firefox
<fagan> and the fact that chromium uses xdg-open when opening files
<chrisccoulson> fagan - xdg-open sucks. firefox uses the gnome libraries instead
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<chrisccoulson> anyway, those are all minor details
<devildante> yeah
<fagan> yeah
<kklimonda_> chrisccoulson: my two main gripes with firefox is that it uses a lot of memory and doesn't use gnome libraries for storing passwords etc.. oh, and its gtk+ "support" sucks
 * fagan mainly wants it in for personal preference 
<fagan> whats the translations support like for both of them
<fagan> I remember hearing both are bad for that
<devildante> I suppose firefox translations are better, since they are older
<chrisccoulson> kklimonda_, - it's "gtk support sucks" is mainly because it uses xul, which is cross platform
<devildante> but idk
<chrisccoulson> using real gtk widgets means that it would depend on a lot more stuff that isn't cross-platform
<chrisccoulson> which is a pain
<chrisccoulson> and it uses the same engine for rendering widgets as it does for rendering web content
<devildante> using Qt would have solved that problem
<devildante> ;)
<kklimonda_> chrisccoulson: I know, I'm not a fan of cross-platform technologies, they tend to look equally out of place on every platform ;)
<kklimonda_> Qt doesn't make use of gio and gvfs
<devildante> ah...
<chrisccoulson> well, i guess FF-4.0 will look even less native now it has ditched the native GTK tabs
<chrisccoulson> for much nicer looking ones
<kklimonda_> and probably few dozens of small gnome libraries
<devildante> the ideal way in terms of integration is if we created our own browser :p
<kklimonda_> chrisccoulson: heh, that actually makes sense when you remember that all browser vendors are pushing "web browser as a platform" idea..
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<kklimonda_> at some point people are going to use Linux as the cheapest backend for their browser.. and then access even less free internet on it
<kenvandine> pitti, i just uploaded the papyon fix to lucid-proposed too
<jderose> asac: the Distributed Media Library blueprint still isn't on the list, is there anything else I need to do?
<asac> jderose: you have the url for the blueprint again?
<nigelb> kenvandine: facebook doesn't even read the bug reports apparently :/
<kenvandine> nigelb, yeah :/
<jderose> asac: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/multimedia-ubuntuone-n-distributed-media-library
<Sofox> mpt: Sorry for bothering you but I have a question and I was told you could help: What exactly is the current situation with paid apps in the Software Center?
<asac> jderose: accepted for uds-n ... check in 1h if its scheduled...otherwise let me know
<asac> jderose: ensure that those that need to be there are marked essential ... and if the time still doesnt suite you we can move it manually (but i would prefer to not do manually scheduling as long as possible )
<mpt> Sofox, currently it's manual inclusion (by contacting Canonical), but we're wanting to automate it as quickly as possible.
<Sofox> Ah, so will commercial games like World of Goo appear in UDS soon?
<Sofox> But thanks for answering, I apperciate it.
<jderose> asac: awesome, thank you! will check it in an hour.
<heikoc> hi
<cyphermox> bbl
<fagan> mpt: sorry ill have to get that screenshot for you tomorrow the install crapped out on my and I had to go
<fagan> alls good though ill get it
<fagan> me not my
<seb128> robert_ancell, hey
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, are you in orlando?
<seb128> yes, dx sprint
<robert_ancell> seb128, man, this gobject-introspection stuff is driving me crazy...
<seb128> what is the issue?
<robert_ancell> webkit turned out to be a real pain.  It kept failing to build on my vm, had different results when I uploaded it.  And takes 1hr to build.  And then I have to wait for each dependency to get published so I can build the next one in the chain on the build servers.
<seb128> right, abi transition are annoying
<robert_ancell> You could change the build depencency versions in the control file but it would be very misleading
<robert_ancell> and then there's always an arch that lags behind (I'm looking at you ppc)
<seb128> right, I tend to avoid doing that
<seb128> I just retry builds
<seb128> but we got the basic libraries rebuilt
<seb128> I would not bother about rebuilding everything
<seb128> things will get rebuilt over time when uploaded
<robert_ancell> the problem is clutter is broken from this - and it's on the end of a long chain of packages from gobject-introspection!
<seb128> right
<seb128> ok, got to go
<seb128> end of day here
<robert_ancell> ok, see you soon!
<seb128> when do you arrive?
<robert_ancell> evening Sunday
<devildante> sometimes, I think maybe it's wiser to stay a prospective developer :p
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, see you
<robert_ancell> devildante, :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-10-22
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, what time sunday?
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, checking on tripit...
<robert_ancell> 9:29pm
 * RAOF wonders if we could get a canonical tripit account or something.
<nigelb> dream on...
 * nigelb hides
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, ok... i get in at 7pm
<nigelb> finally, some action with the facebook bug :D
<kenvandine> nigelb, yeah.... lets hope they actually do something...
<kenvandine> it has actually hasn't failed for me in the last 48 minutes
<kenvandine> since right after it got assigned...
 * kenvandine might just be overly hopeful
 * TheMuso had better go and pack.
<RAOF> Surely that's reserved for flight time minus 2 hours?
<TheMuso> Not for me. I'd like to have tomorrow off completely, i.e not think about work/the trip.
<lifeless> TheMuso: you leave sunday?
<TheMuso> lifeless: Yeah.
<hyperair> what's the recommended method to request a session restart in GNOME?
<hyperair> i've been using gnome_client_request_save, but it seems that libgnomeui is getting deprecated?
<RAOF> Fire up d-feet and find the dbus method on org.gnome.session?
 * bilalakhtar wishes he could go to UDS
<hyperair> RAOF: surely there's an easier way..
<RAOF> hyperair: You're after org.gnome.SessionManager.SaveSession()
<hyperair> RAOF: right, but didn't gnome_client_request_save do more than that?
<hyperair> dropping a wrapper for a raw dbus interface seems wrong to me.
<RAOF> I don't think so?  What more would it do?
<RAOF> Well, there may be a cooked interface available for you, too.
 * hyperair shrugs
<RAOF> But that's just what I thought of first.
<hyperair> i think i saw something in EggSMClient or something
<hyperair> which hasn't been ported anywhere useful
<hyperair> well i'll just ask seb128 what he wants me to do about it later
<RAOF> Time to make some fritata.
<RAOF> And think about what my 24 hour plane hack will be.
<RAOF> Now taking requests!  May not be X related!
<lifeless> RAOF: compiz perf on an x201s
<lifeless> RAOF: note though that this is atrick question
<lifeless> RAOF: I have it off on my full blown desktop too, because it feels slow there as well.
 * hyperair wonders what his 5-hour bus hack will be.
<RAOF> lifeless: Maybe I should make that stronger - *Shall* not be X related :P
<pitti> Good morning
<nigelb> RAOF: darn, you should advertise these for creative requests
<pitti> kenvandine: will have another SRU round today
<lifeless> RAOF: pick up jamesw's api branch for LP and move it forwards?
<nigelb> RAOF: if you could hack on LP blueprints, a lot people will bow down to you :p
<RAOF> I'd need a launchpad install for that, which sounds scary.  Is that something I could easily grab in the ~12 hours before I need to go, most of which I'll want to sleep in?
<lifeless> RAOF: yes
<lifeless> https://dev.launchpad.net/Running/VirtualMachine
<cyphermox> good morning!
<ricotz> alf_, hello, have you started looking into packaging clutter 1.4?
<alf_> ricotz: Hi! No, I haven't looked into clutter 1.4 packaging (just some old experiments with the 1.3 branch).
<ricotz> alf_, it works pretty fine with the old packaging, but the new one causes some trouble since there were a lot of changes/refactoring with egl stuff
<alf_> ricotz: The problem is with the patches or the packaging itself?
<ricotz> alf_, the whole source directory structure has changes since 1.3.14 or so
<ricotz> so yes the patches needs to be redone
<alf_> ricotz: yes, and some of them just need to be dropped since they have been applied upstream
<ricotz> alf_, would be great if you could have a look at it
<alf_> ricotz: sure, I am waiting for UDS to see what decisions will be made there for clutter packaging
<ricotz> alf_, ok, i might need to have a look then cause i wanted to start updating gnome-shell this weekend
<alf_> ricotz: You can probably drop all (my) patches if you care only for desktop GL.
<alf_> ricotz: those patches are mostly GLES related
<ricotz> alf_, yeah, i could do this, but iirc you insisted on this change
<ricotz> so i wanted to follow this packaging which has gotten a bit problematic
<alf_> ricotz: ok, I just meant drop the patches for a quick experiment (not for an official package)
<ricotz> alf_, alright, would be the easiest way
<aboelnour> I'm interesting to develop a gedit plug-in with C can any one provide me with useful tutorials?
<robbiew> pitti: mvo: do you think Till wants a UDS session for this blueprint -> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-automatic-printer-driver-download-should-support-signed-packages
<robbiew> tkamppeter: ^^?
 * robbiew didn't see tkamppeter's nick...:/
<pitti> robbiew: yes, he mentioned that yesterday
<robbiew> pitti: ack
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> how are things in the desktop world? :-)
<seb128> hyperair, re nautilus-share, can't use just use the dbus interface that update-manager etc are using?
<hyperair> seb128: i guess i could try
<hyperair> seb128: where can i find sample code?
 * hyperair isn't familiar with libdbus
<seb128> well nothing else use libgnomeui in ubuntu
<hyperair> =\
<seb128> so somewhat there is a way to do what you want to do without it
<seb128> not sure exactly what this api is doing
<seb128> but I know mvo ported the "restart required" code to the new gnome-session dbus api
<seb128> so maybe use update-manager as an example
<seb128> or ubiquity, I think they do that as well
<aboelnour> I'm interesting to develop a gedit plug-in with C can any one provide me with useful tutorials?
<seb128> aboelnour, you should try asking on #ubuntu
<seb128> this channel is to organise work on ubuntu
<seb128> seems nobody there has a reply to your question
<aboelnour> seb128: thanks
<pitti> hey seb128, ca va
<pitti> seb128: had a look at the hotel web page today, looks really nice!
<pitti> seb128: don't you hang out in the pool all the time?
<kenvandine> pitti, i bet he is there right now, sipping on a drink with an umbrella :)
<cyphermox> pitti, I suggest we add the Caribe Pool room, and schedule Desktop sessions there
<pitti> +1
<seb128> pitti, sorry I was having a swim, couldn't use the keyboard ;-)
<seb128> yes, hotel is nice
<seb128> when do you arrive?
<pitti> seb128: 1810 at the airport tomorrow, with about 10 other people
<pitti> so, should be around 7 at the hotel
<seb128> pitti, ok
<rodrigo_> seb128, desrt: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/gconf <- a 1 way GSettings->GConf bridge, as we discussed
<seb128> great
<rodrigo_> desrt, I'd appreciate a review to see if there's nothing bad, although I've just kept it one way, so changes to GConf are not propagated to GSettings at all
<rodrigo_> seb128, although for proxy stuff, we might move the auth details to the keyring, so it will break apps that use GConf to read those
<rodrigo_> desrt, oh, btw, I've found g_variant_get_strv returns const gchar, but says you should free the returned value, shouldn't it be just 'gchar **'?
<bbordwell> Hello, I have a bug that has a possible patch and a branch that has been requested for merging 20 days ago and no one has looked at it yet. Could somone please do so? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-applets/+bug/640096
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 640096 in light-themes (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "cpufreq using grey almost invisible font (affects: 57) (dups: 9) (heat: 212)" [Medium,Triaged]
<ayan> is there a way to determine which process emitted a dbus message?
<ari-tczew> hey, what do you think about merge compizconfig-backend-kconfig ?
<vish> bbordwell Â¦ Cimi is doing the light-themes
<bbordwell> vish, okay thanks
<bbordwell> Cimi, are you around?
<Cimi> bbordwell: yep
<bbordwell> Cimi, I was wondering if you could take a look at this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-applets/+bug/640096, it has a proposed patch from 20 days ago but no one has taken a look at it.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 640096 in light-themes (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "cpufreq using grey almost invisible font (affects: 57) (dups: 9) (heat: 212)" [Medium,Triaged]
<Cimi> bbordwell: yeah I forgot to add that line
<seb128> pitti, still there?
<hyperair> yay ibus taking 200M of memory =.=
<bbordwell> RAOF, are you around?
<seb128> bbordwell, it's like middle of the night on a friday to saturday night where he lives
<bbordwell> seb128, alright thanks
<cyphermox> seb128, have you seen my merge for gtk+-3.0 ?
<seb128> cyphermox, no
<seb128> where? when?
<cyphermox> seb128, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/gtk/gtk3-amd64-natty-build/+merge/39081
<cyphermox> I was looking for the link ;)
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I think I will delay that, busy at the sprint and UDS coming
<cyphermox> np
<seb128> it could lead back to the never finish building issue
<seb128> but thanks for the fix ;-)
<cyphermox> seb128, I tested on my PPA and it worked fine ;)
<cyphermox> it did finish, pretty quickly in fact
<seb128> ok, I guess we will not know why the previous one was buggy
<cyphermox> nah :(
<cyphermox> anyway, it's not rush, just curious as that was a side-effect of the gtkbuilder porting of synaptic I'm still working on
<seb128> ok
<seb128> how is that one going?
<cyphermox> pretty good
<cyphermox> until this morning, it would compile and work
<cyphermox> except there were a few optionmenus to change to combo boxes, and other small things to fix
<seb128> great
<seb128> hum, need to go, bbl
<cyphermox> now I changed it to compile against gtk-3.0 so I'm fixing the issues that are coming up.. it doesn't compile anymore
<cyphermox> ttyl
<seb128> get the gtk2 version working first I guess
<seb128> then clean for the new gtk
<seb128> it will probably be easier to review for mvo and we might not want to depends on the new gtk yet
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-10-23
<G__81> hi everybody i am interested in contributing to Ubuntu. I am interested in fixing bugs and adding features, though adding features is a futuristic goal at the moment but bug fixing is something that i want to start off with
<G__81> Can someone help me on this ?
<nisshh> G__81, if you want to fix bugs in ubuntu, head over to #ubuntu-bugs
<devildante> !contribute
<ubot2> To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<devildante> nisshh: ubuntu-bugs is only for bug triaging, not bug fixing
<nisshh> devildante, still be better than this channel though wouldnt it?
<G__81> so which is the channel for bug fixing as such ?
<devildante> nisshh: yeah, but that's no reason to give incorrect statements
<devildante> G__81: I don't think there is
<nisshh> devildante, sorry, i forgot, what would you suggest?
<devildante> G__81: but check the link I just gave
<devildante> !contribute | G__81
<ubot2> G__81: To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
<G__81> devildante, have gone over the link as such
<devildante> ah
<nisshh> devildante, i have seen people in #ubuntu-bugs who are fixing bugs though :|
<G__81> or is it like i go to gnome channels and start it there and it gets merged here ? is that the process
<devildante> nisshh: maybe off-topic, idk, but ubuntu-bugs is for bug triaging
<nisshh> devildante, yeah, i guess, ill remember that in the future
<devildante> G__81: if you go to gnome channels, it's no longer a direct contribution to Ubuntu ;)
<devildante> G__81: if you want to go that way: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeLove
<G__81> devildante, yeah i understand that so if thats not then whats the direct way to do it in ubuntu
<devildante> G__81: you might want to check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
<G__81> yes but its got a section called BugSquad but that deals only with Bug triaging
<G__81> and of course talks a lot about packaging stuff but dont think it talks specifically about bugs in apps and the contact points for those
<devildante> G__81: you could fix papercut bugs, they are easy to fix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bugs?field.status:list=TRIAGED
<G__81> oh ok does it involve code changes ?
<devildante> G__81: of course :)
<G__81> oh great thanks devildante so generally whats the process to fix as such, I just have one laptop where i have installed 10.10 today was earlier running f13 . Now is it wise enough to install a VM and install 10.10 in that too and fix stuff ?
<devildante> G__81: why wouldn't you fix bugs in your native installation?
<G__81> no if its like i have to install lot of other libraries which might break my laptop. is there a chance for that ?
<devildante> no, it won't break it
<devildante> they are just libraries ;)
<nisshh> G__81, all they will do is take up a small amount of hard drive space
<G__81> yeah space shouldnt be an issue at all
<G__81> oh ok if thats the case then i ll look into the bugs and is there a list or channel for those papercuts ?
<devildante> I don't think so
<nisshh> no, there isnt im pretty sure
<G__81> oh ok thanks
<devildante> np ):
<devildante> ;)
<G__81> how do i edit the Grub menu there is a GUI tool right can someone let me know that ?
<G__81> devildante, any idea on the name of the tool,
<devildante> !support | G__81
<ubot2> G__81: The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
<devildante> sorry for asking, but is there a way to integrate glade into an application?
#ubuntu-desktop 2010-10-24
<icekk> hey, I am installing ubuntu really for the first time, I am trying to decide, should i use gnome or kde?
<icekk> and... why does gnome come preinstalled?
<icekk> but not kde
<icekk> does that imply gnome is 'better'?
<micahg> Amaranth: ping
<Amaranth> micahg: pong
<micahg> Amaranth: hi, could you hop in the -bugs channel for a minute
<eagles0513875> #/j oscommerce
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-10-17
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<TheMuso> I like, but dislike the start of a new cycle.
<pitti> hey TheMuso
<pitti> TheMuso: mmm, dialectic statements in the early morning :)
<TheMuso> heh
<TheMuso> Its the merges I don't like, but planning for the next cycle is fun.
<TheMuso> Or I don't enjoy merges.
<RAOF> Hey pitti :)
<pitti> TheMuso: do less of them, try to get stuff into Debian or upstream :)
<pitti> TheMuso: it's rather easy these days to get the Debian guys to share development in their trees
<TheMuso> pitti: Oh I know.
<TheMuso> But I still don't enjoy it.
<pitti> TheMuso: but yes, some will always remain, and they are kind of boring
<pitti> it's a good time for reviewing patches etc.
<TheMuso> I agree with that yes.
<pitti> RAOF: ugh, SRUs are a real whack-a-rat game these times :)
<RAOF> pitti: Yeah.  I was going to ask you - how do we deal with stuff like vlc, which is just a new upstream bugfix release?  Wave it through?  (Although vlc also has other issues, like being a sync from Debian which blows away the oneiric changelog, and a bug in an improper state)
<pitti> RAOF: I'm generally a bit sceptical about these, unless it's a blessed MRE; I usually look through the diff and see whether there's something which doesn't look appropriate (lots of new code, new dependencies, etc.)
<RAOF> It's got a very sizeable diff.  Although a surprising amount of it is no-op comment changes in the translation files :)
<pitti> RAOF: that usually comes from merging the .po files against the latest upstream versions; harmless noise
<RAOF> Yeah; about 100K lines of harmless noise, in this case :)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti. How was your week-end?
<pitti> didrocks: pretty calm, for a change; had some friends over, some reading, gardening, and lots of idling :)
<pitti> how was your's?
<didrocks> was nice, removed 4 radiators, put 3 new ones, and a lot of walking in the city :)
<pitti> didrocks: some sightseeing/culture?
<didrocks> pitti: sightseeing mostly (Julie still doesn't know the full city ;)) and just enjoying the last sunny week-end together :-)
<pitti> indeed, was sunny here as well (but quite cold already)
<RAOF> That's a lot of radiators.  I might be missing context :)
<TheMuso> RAOF: heaters I suspect.
<didrocks> RAOF: heh, just that the previous heaters were just basic electric one where you can burn yourself if you touch them. I bought some that doesn't use so much power than the previous one
<RAOF> I'm always a fan of not burning myself on household surfaces :)
<smspillaz> hi @ all
<RAOF> Hey smspillaz
<smspillaz> hi
<smspillaz> didrocks: hi :)
<didrocks> hey smspillaz
<smspillaz> didrocks: do you know when the timer is up for compiz ?
<didrocks> smspillaz: next Wednesday, has we pushed a version on Wednesday IIRC
<smspillaz> ok
<smspillaz> there's some stuff that got clobbered in the process of making the patches, so I'm just fixing that up now, so I'll have a merge proposal to fix all that up
 * smspillaz did a diff between lp:../oneiric and the distro version with the patches applied and noticed that there are bits and pieces missing
<didrocks> smspillaz: can you precise?
<didrocks> smspillaz: please don't add diff for the purpose of adding diff from the previous version, think about the SRU team who reviews all patches
<smspillaz> didrocks: some of the fixes are not working exactly as they should because there are bits and pieces missing http://paste.ubuntu.com/710581/
<smspillaz> didrocks: I can add a comment to each bit explaining what it does if you want
<didrocks> smspillaz: do you have the list of bugs that aren't fixed then? :/
<smspillaz> sure, hang on
<didrocks> pitti: FYI ^
<smspillaz> didrocks: I'll comment on each of those bugs with the missing diff
<didrocks> smspillaz: are there only bugs not fixed?
<smspillaz> didrocks: what do you mean ?
<didrocks> smspillaz: is there some side-effect to not have the full patch?
<didrocks> smspillaz: and how come we only had partial diff?
<didrocks> it reminds me that the empty patches you gave to me
<smspillaz> didrocks: yes, I will explain in each bug, and we only had partial diffs likely because we got clobbered patches due to the divergence with trunk :)
<didrocks> do you check that the patch applies or do you just reforce it?
<didrocks> so you had patch rejected
<smspillaz> oh, I checked they applied
<didrocks> and didn't read the output?
<smspillaz> right, I had to refresh some of them
<smspillaz> yes
<smspillaz> I read the output
<didrocks> well, you gave me empty patches at some point
<smspillaz> that was a while back, I fixed those
<didrocks> so how come there are missing chunks?
<smspillaz> context changes, some patches overlapped, etc
<smspillaz> the diff with the tarballs is getting quite big now, you know that errors can occur due to this :)
<didrocks> yeah, but apparently, it's more than one error
<didrocks> and not the first time
<didrocks> so I want to understand so that it's avoided in the future
<didrocks> what missed? more rigor?
<smspillaz> it will be avoided in the future when I get trunk into a state where you can just pull from it :)
<smspillaz> (and I'm almost done with that :))
<didrocks> I mean for Oneiric?
<didrocks> I guess we will still have some released
<didrocks> patches*
<didrocks> so, how can we do this for Oneiric?
<smspillaz> diff -r theoneiricbranch theubuntubranch
<smspillaz> at least thats how I caught these :)
<didrocks> smspillaz: so can you do that next time before?
<smspillaz> sure
<didrocks> so that I don't end up notifying you of empty patches
<smspillaz> :)
<didrocks> smspillaz: ok, so, do you have the list of bugs?
<smspillaz> the empty patches occur usually when some patches overlap
<didrocks> that are impacted
<smspillaz> I'm just collecting them all now
<didrocks> yeah, and the output tells you "can't apply chuckâ¦"
<didrocks> so I have hard time to understand how you read the output :)
<smspillaz> right, so usually I go in to fix it in the source, and then its already there :)
<smspillaz> and then it happens that some *other* patch comes along and removes that same chunk :)
<didrocks> smspillaz: so rigor and wondering why it doesn't apply was the issue again, right?
<smspillaz> of course
<smspillaz> things just get ... complicated when you've got about 15 or so bugfix patches which all touch the same bit of code :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: anyways, what I'll do right now is go in and fix each individual patch, they all have bug numbers attached to them and then I will comment on each bug and give you the list of bugs that are affected with the diff once that's done
<didrocks> smspillaz: well, it's just a question of keeping calm and being rigorous. Doing one thing after another
<didrocks> which is the same when I have a unity release and 10+ updates to handle
<didrocks> smspillaz: yes, please, give me the list of failure, so that pitti can be aware about them and we can remove them from the SRU list
<didrocks> it's just a week lost and a pityâ¦
<smspillaz> didrocks: well, we can do this for the next SRU, right ?
<pitti> didrocks: why a week lost?
<smspillaz> and then we'll just mark them as fix-committed rather than fix released
<didrocks> smspillaz: well, right now, the SRU will be blocked
<pitti> didrocks: there was one bug in the current SRUs which had a (questionable) failure, but that woudln't block -updates promotion
<didrocks> smspillaz: because registered bugs as SRU won't be pushed, hence we need to clean the list
<didrocks> pitti: some bugs on the list won't be fixed apparently
<didrocks> pitti: so we need to remove them from the list
<pitti> ah
<smspillaz> I'll make it clear those that the missing bits are harmless, they just don't *completely* fix some bugs
<didrocks> as the full patches weren't deliver (I even get, as I mentioned before, some empty patches that I spotted)
<smspillaz> (eg, there's some edge cases where you might still get the bug)
<didrocks> smspillaz: yeah, that's why we need this list, to pop them out of the SRU list
<didrocks> smspillaz: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<didrocks> smspillaz: see compiz and cpm on the oneiric lsit
<didrocks> smspillaz: green are confirmed bug fixes, red is failure and blue are untested
<smspillaz> didrocks: yeah, so 866752 might still happen in some cases, but the majority of other cases are fixed at least
<didrocks> smspillaz: just get the list so that we can act on them :)
<smspillaz> sure, doing that now :)
<didrocks> smspillaz: 4.24.0 is already out, what bugs have set to fix committed last Friday?
<didrocks> smspillaz: I see https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/863114
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 863114 in unity "Cannot raise window from panel after minimize" [High,Fix committed]
 * didrocks retargets to 4.26
<didrocks> smspillaz: needs the other
<didrocks> smspillaz: urgh, all bugs are fix released already
<didrocks> smspillaz: I kept them fix committed for my script removing the cruft for the rest :/
<didrocks> *sigh* will spend another 2 hours on it opening every bugs one after another
<smspillaz> didrocks: someone changed them to fix released ?
<didrocks> yeah
 * RAOF is unconvinced that adding 3000 lines of staging zcache driver and hooking it up to all the filesystems is appropriate for an SRU...
<pitti> RAOF: *nod* that sounds a bit excessive
<RAOF> Hm.  In addition to a bunch of config changes.  There may need to be a little education :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: ok, repatching done, updating the bugs now
<didrocks> smspillaz: can you send the list back?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, good morning
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<smspillaz> didrocks: sure thing :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, is the recipe for how to clean out your history from Unity written down anywhere?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: you mean, in alt + F2?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, nah, I was going to work on an indicator to turn off collecting dash history, and having a command to clear it out
<rickspencer3> you told me how to do it a while back, so I was wondering if it was actually written down in a blog or bug or something about how to do it
<didrocks> rickspencer3: basically, it's removing zeitgeist history, I think some sqlite requests will be needed if you don't want to remove everything. kamstrup wouldd know more.
<RAOF> There's an app for that :)
<RAOF> (Isn't there?)
<didrocks> yeah, in gnome-activity-journal
<didrocks> rickspencer3: if you want to do it manually, it's about killing zeitgeist-daemon and zeitgeist-datahub, then rm ~/.local/share/zeitgeist/
<didrocks> there is a cache in unity, so a new search is then needed to clear it up IIRC
<rickspencer3> RAOF, I want to make an indicator, so you can go into "stealth" mode, will gnome-activity-journal do that?
<didrocks> no, it didn't support last time I check
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I seem to recall that you have to move the gnome mru list too
<didrocks> but I guess it was planned
<didrocks> rickspencer3: oh right, for datahub not picking it back
<rickspencer3> I'll look around at the activity journal
<didrocks> (~/.local/share/recently-used.xbel)
<RAOF> rickspencer3: I don't know, but a naive d-feet suggests that you might want to try disabling all the datasources in /org/gnome/zeitgeist/data_source_registry
<didrocks> RAOF: it doesn't clean the history though
<RAOF> didrocks: Yeah, but that doesn't sound like what rickspencer3's after, which would be a ?private browsing? mode.  You don't need to clean the history if you don't generate any?
<didrocks> I'm not sure :) can be as well "for now, I just want to start in a clean mode so that nobody can see my $very_private_reports while I'm doing a presentation"
<smspillaz> didrocks: bugs 864330 864478 865696 807487 796594
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 864330 in compiz "The larger windows, moving towed." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/864330
<smspillaz> I think some of them are targed for SRU1 though
<smspillaz> so I guess we should retarget all the ones that *were* SRU0 to SRU1 and then change the status to fix committed ?
<didrocks> smspillaz: not all, but all from that list, yeah
<smspillaz> sure thing
<smspillaz> didrocks: the only one that needs changing from fixreleased to fixcommitted is that one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz-core/+bug/864478
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 864478 in compiz "Window shading is broken" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<RAOF> Window shading was *expected* to work? :)
<smspillaz> RAOF: it got broken a bit by some changes I did to the reparenting code
<smspillaz> RAOF: I was fixing a focus bug when I noticed that it handled the shading case and then I actually tried to shade a window and then it made my window disappear
<smspillaz> its mostly fixed now, except that compiz paints the full frame of the window rather than the shaded one
<didrocks> smspillaz: apart from bug #864330, none of them was pushed on the SRU list
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 864330 in compiz "The larger windows, moving towed." [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/864330
<didrocks> smspillaz: there is no patch with those numbers
<smspillaz> didrocks: I think its the same as 866752
<smspillaz> didrocks: I'll dupe it
<didrocks> smspillaz: yeah, duplicate please
<didrocks> smspillaz: so, that's normal that they weren't pushed, I don't get what was wrong then with those
<smspillaz> done
<didrocks> all of this is so confusing, as always with compiz :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: you mean everything apart from 864330 ?
<smspillaz> didrocks: there were slight deviations
<didrocks> smspillaz: yeah, see the bug #
<smspillaz> so I corrected them
<didrocks> smspillaz: there was not on the patch + SRU fixed list you gave to me last time
<smspillaz> didrocks: and then there were a few patches that were missing which were targed for SRU1 anyways, so I did those
<didrocks> smspillaz: ok, so you meant, patches that were missing
<didrocks> not half-pushed patches
<smspillaz> right, but they were targed for SRU1 anyways
<smspillaz> didrocks: I'll set up a merge proposal now
<rodrigo_> morning
<didrocks> smspillaz: well, wait for the other version to be pushed
<smspillaz> grrrrr, why does skype break the kde plugin
<didrocks> smspillaz: I know you will have more
<smspillaz> didrocks: :)
<didrocks> :)
<smspillaz> didrocks: right, although I'm doing all the merge proposals today since I need to take some time off to finish some uni work
<didrocks> pitti: RAOF: new nux and unity (finally \o/) proposed inâ¦ -proposed :)
<pitti> yay
<didrocks> smspillaz: sure, ensure the test case is there
<smspillaz> didrocks: yep
<didrocks> pitti: running since Wednesday, then, noticed some regressions and cherry-pick on Thursday and Friday
<didrocks> pitti: running since Friday reasonably well here
<smspillaz> RAOF: what's a huge window size that's more than the max_texture_size that I can set which won't return a BadAlloc ?
<RAOF> smspillaz: 8888 x 1?
<Sweetshark> Bonjour, Good morning, Moin!
 * Sweetshark survived Libreoffice conference in Paris.
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<pitti> hey Sweetshark, welcome back; was it interesting?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
<didrocks> good morning Sweetshark, chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<Sweetshark> pitti: oh, yes. I wonder how I will be abl to write a trip report that wont be a book.
<Sweetshark> pitti: and making it to slashdot twice with the first conference is also a nice achivement, I guess. http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/10/15/010253/libreoffice-going-online-and-mobile and http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/10/14/1531252/openoffice-is-dying-and-ibm-wont-help
<smspillaz> didrocks: ok, testacses done
<didrocks> great
<seb128> hey
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: pretty good, thanks! how about you?
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> pitti, got a small start of cold over the w.e but otherwise I'm good thanks
<seb128> lut didrocks
<pitti> seb128: hope it won't be too bad :/
<seb128> yeah, seems to be ok for now so let's see how it goes
<mpt> Good morning folks ... I have a quiz question: Other than Ubuntu, which Gnome-using OSes have a guest session feature? (This is relating to redesigning Startup Applications)
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<mpt> Does Debian, for example?
<rickspencer3>  mpt I
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, mpt, rickspencer3
<seb128> how are you?
<rickspencer3> m pretty sure that Guest session is a Ubuntu innovation, and that it's pitti
<rickspencer3> bonjour seb128
<seb128> mpt, nobody else has a guest session that I know about
<rickspencer3> je vais tres bien
<rickspencer3> et tois?
<seb128> rickspencer3, je vais bien merci !
<Sweetshark> http://people.gnome.org/~michael/data/2011-10-10-lool-demo.webm <- anyone interested in Libreoffice in the browser should have a look at that video btw
<seb128> hey Sweetshark
<seb128> I've seen it, it seems the same desktop ui copied in a web browser
<Sweetshark> its libreoffice running in firefox via gtk3/broadway
<seb128> it's nice but not really impressive either, I would think a web version would be much simpler and with a nicer ui
<Sweetshark> seb128: well, it is really a proof-of-concept only. But getting the ui simpler is not the hard part.
<seb128> Sweetshark, speaking of libreoffice do you know if there is any chance it stops using gnome-vfs next cycle? ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128: I have seem "Cloudoffice" and they tried to recreate OOo by a rewrite from scratch. It was a mess for all the layouting etc. to get real WYSIWYG.
<seb128> gnomevfs is deprecated for years and only on CD because of libreoffice now, I wish they would clean their desktop code rather than doing web prototypes :p
<seb128> Sweetshark, yeah, the issue is to compete with i.e google doc, not going to be easy ;-)
<mpt> thanks seb128
<seb128> mpt, yw
<rickspencer3> didrocks, after I kill z-daemon and z-datahub and delete the dir, files, I just start z-daemon again, or does unity start it for me?
<Sweetshark> seb128: If you give me an action item about it and either a) kill enough of the other action items for me or b) get me more human resources, sure.
<didrocks> rickspencer3: the lens will start it for you
<didrocks> rickspencer3: so it should reconnect
<rickspencer3> thanks didrocks
<rickspencer3> so, for delete my history it
<rickspencer3> s easy
<seb128> Sweetshark, I'm not in a position to give action items but I can bring it up to jasoncwarner_ and pitti at UDS ;-)
<rickspencer3> for "private browsing mode" I guess I need to make the dirs and files read only
<seb128> uninstall zg, easier ;-)
<didrocks> quite a harsh solution, but I guess yeah :-)
<didrocks> kamstrup: will zg survive ? ^
<seb128> the issue is that if you i.e delete recently-used.xbl you will loose all your '"recently open" in applications
<seb128> i.e gedit's fileselectors or file menu
<didrocks> seb128: I guess that's the goal
<seb128> didrocks, I tend to want to clean the lens view there
<didrocks> or mv it for a presentation
<seb128> but I don't want to drop my gedit history
<lool> Gah, how many lools will I get due to the new LO web service
<Sweetshark> seb128: really, making the interface simple isnt too much of work compared to always getting the layout right.
<seb128> hey lool
<lool> Hey seb128!  :-)
<didrocks> hey lool :-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, right
<Sweetshark> hey, lool
<rodrigo_> brb
<seb128> didrocks, rickspencer3: use the guest session for demos ;-)
<lool> I'll launch a web UI for Ubuntu Desktop and call it seb128-didrocks-ping!.webm
<rickspencer3> seb128, I intent to get rich off of this app
<seb128> lool, trying to make friends? ;-)
<rickspencer3> it'll sell like hotcakes
<rickspencer3> ;)
<seb128> lol
<Sweetshark> lol lool?
<didrocks> seb128: I don't have credentials in my guest session to show install/uninstall demo :-)
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> I deleted ~/.local/share/zeitgeist, and it's not coming back ;)
<seb128> didrocks, good point, use a demo account ;-)
<rickspencer3> maybe I need to do something
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, not a nice woarkaround :)
<seb128> pfiou, I had 1200 bug emails in my launchpad desktop box from the w.e
<didrocks> rickspencer3: not coming back -> zg?
<seb128> down to 781 by cleaning the janitor expiration emails
<seb128> that's a good thing ;-)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: even if you open a lens ?
<seb128> still 781 emails, hate releases :p
<didrocks> seb128: you can take some rest now, you just triaged more than 60% :-)
<didrocks> ah down to
<didrocks> so no, 40% :)
<czajkowski> Morning folks
<didrocks> hey czajkowski
<czajkowski> I see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/875054  bug is back again :/
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 875054 in linux "[Oneiric][Regression[ Oneiric spontaneously powers off" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<czajkowski> that used to happen me in natty the whole time
<rickspencer3> didrocks, so, I killed z-daemon ... then went to use the dash, it doesn't look like z-daemon started up again
<rickspencer3> I had to manually restart it, which made it build a new ~/.local/share/zeitgest, btw
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, hi
<rodrigo_> hi tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> Any new ideas about the s-c-p problem with gnome-shell?
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, ^
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, not much, have been thinking about it, I can see only 2 solutions: leave it as it is, or use s-c-p also in gnome-shell
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, I would prefer the latter.
<rodrigo_> tbh, I'd prefer to leave it as it is
<rodrigo_> for oneiric I mean
<didrocks> rickspencer3: interesting, and did you try to just kill one lens daemon?
<rodrigo_> I haven't seen many complains from users, have you tkamppeter?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, what I did was kill zeitgeist-daemon
<didrocks> rickspencer3: maybe only restarting the lens daemon restarts zg, which is a bug in this case (and wasn't doing that before IIRC)
<rickspencer3> this killed zeitgeist-datahub for me
<rodrigo_> brb, need to reboot
<rickspencer3> then messing around in the dash didn't restart it
<rickspencer3> didrocks, this is actually better for me, if it works this way
<didrocks> rickspencer3: try killing unity-application-daemon for instance and start the application lens
<rickspencer3> I can just "turn off" zeitgeist-daemon by killing it
<rickspencer3> and then "turn it on" again
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, that's better, but still an issue we should fix for Precise though :-)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, how is it an issue?
<rickspencer3> a user kills zeitgeist, it should stay dead
<didrocks> rickspencer3: that means that if zg crash, nothing restart it until you restart the lenses
<rickspencer3> I hate when I try to kill things and they just respawn
<didrocks> so no more search will work until you restart the session/restart the lens
<rickspencer3> didrocks, the lens still works
<rickspencer3> it's just that zeitgeist has stopped logging data
<didrocks> without zg running? you get new results for new search?
<didrocks> (not just the cached ones)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I dunno, I deleted the databases
<rickspencer3> let me try out the different scenarios
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I did not get new results, because the whole point was to make it stop logging results :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, but I'm thinking about the "normal crash" case :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I think it would be nice if z-daemon had an interface so you could tell it to start and stop logging
<rickspencer3> and to clear data as well
<rickspencer3> maybe I'll see about adding that for precise
<didrocks> rickspencer3: we discussed that this morning with kamstrup
<didrocks> rickspencer3: he agreed on the dbus interface
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> nm ;)
<didrocks> but sure, for precise :-)
<didrocks> your workaround will be good enough for oneiric I guess :-)
<didrocks> and you can make billions :p
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I will invite you to my Italian Villa that I plan to buy with the proceeds
<didrocks> \o/
<seif> rickspencer3, we do have an interface for that
<rickspencer3> seif, do tell
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, only complaint I am aware of is the bug we are discussing (and your need to reboot :-).
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, right, so doesn't seem too critical to justify a UI change at this time for oneiric, right?
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, OK. Can you close the bug then?
<seif> rickspencer3, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/activity-log-manager-for-zeitgeist-lets-you-blacklist-files-and-apps-delete-your-history-more/
<seif> rickspencer3, we allow disabling logging over dbus already
<rickspencer3> seif, I see
<seif> :)
<seif> and this is just a UI
<rickspencer3> seif, can you point me to the API docs?
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, leave it open for P I guess?
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, OK.
<seif> rickspencer3, gimmie a moment
<seif> we changed the api in 0.8
<seif> dont think we documented this part yet
<seif> as in we changed the api of the blacklist extnesion for zeitgeist
<seif> not of zeitgeist
<didrocks> seif: that doesn't enable going in some kind of "private mode" though?
<seif> didrocks, it does
<didrocks> oh nice, even kamstrup wasn't aware then :)
<rickspencer3> seif, I just want to tell zeitgeist to stop logging, and then to tell it to start logging again
<rickspencer3> is there a code sample to show me how to do that?
<seif> rickspencer3, yes
<seif> the code i can give you
<rickspencer3> seif, sweet
<rickspencer3> python by change?
<seif> didrocks, bascially u give it an empty event to blakclist and it tops logging
<seif> rickspencer3, its in python
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, can you at least add a comment to the bug? Thanks.
<rickspencer3> seif, sweet
<rickspencer3> hit me up ;)
<seif> rickspencer3, i will give you a little 200 line bundle of code
<seif> and show u how to use it
<rickspencer3> 200 lines!
<seif> u justn eed 2 mehtods
<rickspencer3> wtf
<seif> enable and disable
<rickspencer3> phew
<seif> rickspencer3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/710695/
<seif> what u want to do is then
 * rickspencer3 looks
<seif> incognito = IncognitoBlacklist()
<seif> then
<seif> incognito.set_incognito(true)
<seif> and ur done
<rickspencer3> seif, do I turn it back on with set_incognito(False)
<seif> so just copy this code i sent you somehwere
<rickspencer3> ?
<seif> rickspencer3, yes
<seif> :)
<rickspencer3> seif, so this is a library you wrote?
<seif> rickspencer3, yep
<seif> its covers the zeitgeist-blacklist extension
<rickspencer3> cool
<seif> it wraps aorund dbus
<rickspencer3> damn I hate dbus programming
<seif> rickspencer3, it also works with the vala zeitgeist
<rickspencer3> every. f'ing. time.
<seif> rickspencer3, tell me what you want me to do i can do it for you
<seif> i got some time on my hand
<rickspencer3> seif,  it's not your fault
<seif> and i miss python programing
<rickspencer3> it's this crap:
<rickspencer3> RuntimeError: To make asynchronous calls, receive signals or export objects, D-Bus connections must be attached to a main loop by passing mainloop=... to the constructor or calling dbus.set_default_main_loop(...)
<seif> i feel ur pain
<rickspencer3> whenever we tell app developers to use dbus, we may as well tell them not to program for Ubuntu
<uksysadmin> well I had fun (and judging by the increase in traffic to my blog on a fix) upgrading from 11.04 to 11.10. who do I need to kick over it breaking networking for lots people? ;-)
<seif> rickspencer3, thus the library :)
<seif> didrocks, r u up for testing the new zeitgeist with us
<seif> we have been doing some internal tests
<didrocks> seif: well, still on SRUs there and trying to get things in shape
<didrocks> seif: is this a bug fix only release?
<mvo>  uksysadmin: there is a open bug about this against network-manager #859373
<seif> SRU?
<seif> didrocks, nope
<rickspencer3> seif, indeed
<seif> its the vala port (which fixes tons of bugs with it)
<rickspencer3> however, I am dead in the water
<didrocks> seif: hum, I'll maybe try next week then, I prefer to keep on the current platform :)
<rickspencer3> I can't figure out how to tell dbus to use my main loop
<didrocks> seif: just ping me back in a week
<seif> rickspencer3, how can i help you
<seif> what is ur idea
<seif> i could hack it for you :)
<didrocks> seif: and we will try to push it asap in precise
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> seif, how do other people contend with the error I am getting in their apps?
<seif> i bug my team to fix my code for me :)
<seif> not optimal
<rickspencer3> seif, heh
<didrocks> rickspencer3: from dbus.mainloop.glib import DBusGMainLoop
<seif> rickspencer3, but what is ur idea
<rickspencer3> I think there is something I can do when I am setting up my gtk.main loop
<didrocks>     DBusGMainLoop(set_as_default=True)
<didrocks>     loop = GObject.MainLoop()
<rickspencer3> sweet
<didrocks> isn't what you need?
<rickspencer3> thanks didrocks
<uksysadmin> mvo, I don't believe that's the issue I saw and '000s others: http://uksysadmin.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/upgrade-to-ubuntu-11-10-problem-waiting-for-network-configuration-then-black-screen-solution/
<rickspencer3> didrocks, prolly
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I've struggled with this before
<uksysadmin> looks like an upgrade didn't sort out the filesystem properly creating multiple places for runtime files and locks
<didrocks> rickspencer3: it's important to run DBusGMainLoop before calling your gtk main loop
<rickspencer3> so, this all looks familiar
<rickspencer3> didrocks, righ
<rickspencer3> t
<uksysadmin> Related to this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dbus/+bug/811441/
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 811441 in dbus "Unable to connect to the system bus: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: Connection refused (oneiric) (dup-of: 858122)" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 858122 in ubuntu-release-notes "incomplete migration to /run (shutdown script order has been demolished)" [High,In progress]
<mvo> uksysadmin: oh, indeed, this is a different one
<mvo> uksysadmin: do you happen to know if its only vmware workstation that triggers this? or can it happen for other reasons too?
<uksysadmin> effectively broke my installation and many others... reboot... waiting 3mins for boot, then presented with black screen
<uksysadmin> real hardware
<mvo> uksysadmin: no question that this is a serious issue
<uksysadmin> indeed
<uksysadmin> showstopper for many
<uksysadmin> if the fix is to symlink /var/run to /run and /var/lock /to /run/lock it seems the upgrade forgot that the old areas (/var/run and /var/lock) exist and maybe can't be removed as they're in use to allow for 11.10 to point this all to /run which is now a tmpfs
<uksysadmin> on a clean install of 11.10 /var/run and /var/lock are symlinks to /run and /run/lock
<uksysadmin> easy-ish fix once you know how, but for many desktop users and Ubuntu's image of it being a preferred desktop linux of choice due to it "just working" broke that in 11.10
<mvo> uksysadmin: is this analysis already in the bugreport? sorry, I have not read it all, but Steve Slangasek commented in it twice,  I wonder if all information is in the bugreport
<uksysadmin> let me do some searching to see if this is explicitly stated in a bug and add this if necessary
<mvo> thanks!
<uksysadmin> Looks like a hsatntanna added this already in comment #48 referencing my blog
<didrocks> pitti: what's the process to add a script to the crontab and generating some reports under people.canonical.com/~platform ?
<pitti> didrocks: JFDI
<didrocks> ah? ok, seems easy enough :-)
<didrocks> thanks!
<pitti> didrocks: in case you didn't know, you can do sudo -u platform -i
<didrocks> pitti: now that you mention it, I remember an email with that :-)
<pitti> de rien :)
<didrocks> merci beaucoup ;)
<uksysadmin> Bug #858122 has this as high importance but many posts on it reference moving init scripts around which I don't beleive is the case
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 858122 in ubuntu-release-notes "incomplete migration to /run (shutdown script order has been demolished)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/858122
<uksysadmin> I've updated that bug to reflect the impact too
<uksysadmin> (added comment)
<ogra_> desrt, are you aware that dconf-editor is close to unusable on 1024x600 ?
<ogra_> (seems there is some auto-sizing stuff going on on in the right pane that always shrinks the entry field list to 1px or so)
<BigWhale> was the bug with nautilus-open-terminal plugin resolved?
<seb128> ogra_, desrt doesn't maintain dconf-editor, robert_ancell does
<seb128> BigWhale, it's a bug in ubuntuone-client-gnome and the sru is in -updates since today
<ogra_> ah, i thought i saw his name in the changelog
<ogra_> thanks !
<BigWhale> seb128, oh. thanks for the info
<geser> ogra_: is this similar to bug #715002?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 715002 in d-conf "dconf-editor window expands itself horizontally to fit descriptions" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715002
<ogra_> well, my issue is vertically
<ogra_> but might be the same cause
<didrocks> hum, we don't have python-cairo (but we do have cairo) on people.canonical.com
<seb128> ogra_, usually selecting another category and yours back workaround it
<seb128> didrocks, open a rt I guess ;-)
<ogra_> seb128, sadly not for me ... and the bad part is that it isnt resizable
<seb128> ogra_, use gsettings (command line)
<ogra_> heh
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I guess it will be the easier, just looking if meanwhile, I can copy the module
<didrocks> mkdir mkdir cairo + __init__.py loading the .so doesn't seem to be enough
<seb128> lunch time, bbia
<seb128> b
<chrisccoulson> w00t, i have bluetooth again :)
<chrisccoulson> what a pain that was
 * chrisccoulson remembers never to buy a laptop without bluetooth again
<seb128> chrisccoulson, your dell doesn't have bluetooth?!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. i only realized when i got it that they only offer it as an option on the higher end model with nvidia graphics
<chrisccoulson> which i didn't want ;)
<chrisccoulson> so i purchased the dell wireless 375 module and fitted it myself just now
<chrisccoulson> but it wasn't fun
<chrisccoulson> it's underneath the left display hinge, which means you need to take the display and palm rest off
<chrisccoulson> and the palm rest screws are underneath things like the cpu heatsink
<seb128> urg
<seb128> weird, my e6410 with intel video had bluetooth as an available option
<seb128> it's weird that they have any latitude which doesn't let you pick blutooth
<seb128> hum, I wonder if combo boxes closing as soon as they open in launchpad sometimes is a launchpad or firefox bug
<chrisccoulson> seb128, compiz
<chrisccoulson> focus to another window and then back again
<CarlFK> are there python bindings for gsettings?  I want to dump all the keys so I can grep  around for things like "play login sound"
<seb128> chrisccoulson, stop blaming compiz for all the bugs :p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> well, it doesn't happen in metacity or mutter ;)
<seb128> CarlFK, you can use the gsettings command line utility to dump all the keys
<CarlFK> seb128: "gsettings list-keys" wants a schema.. is there a wild card?
<CarlFK> ohh, I just saw monitor.. i bet I can use that to see what the gui does
<CarlFK> arg.. it wants a schema too
<seb128> CarlFK, list-recursively
<CarlFK> woo!  thanks
<seb128> yw
<Sweetshark> oh, this is going to be fun: The pirate party brought up charges against the bavarian minister of interior (for various crimes including computer sabotage).
<ogra_> yay
<Sweetshark> we live in interesting times.
<ogra_> we certainly do, who would have guesses 8% for the pirates ever :)
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, how are you?
<kenvandine> good, and you?
<seb128> kenvandine, I'm fine thanks
<kenvandine> i am going to get a tp-indicator SRU release out today
<seb128> kenvandine, if you have time could you do a triaging round on empathy bugs this week?
<kenvandine> hopefully fix the crashers
<kenvandine> sure
<seb128> kenvandine, there is a bunch of segfault and other issues, some could be due the indicator or unity integration glitches, some can be worth upstreaming
<seb128> kenvandine, I noticed we got a bunch of bugs about it
<kenvandine> for empathy?
<seb128> (well not only about, nothing compared to nautilus due to dobey's screwups)
<kenvandine> empathy itself doesn't talk to the indicator anymore
<seb128> kenvandine, yes
<kenvandine> hehe
<seb128> kenvandine, well we got a bunch of "don't get a blue icon" sort of bugs
<kenvandine> ah
<seb128> kenvandine, and some others are likely upstream issues but still would be nice to triage a bit and upstream the important ones
<kenvandine> sure
<dobey> hey now
<kenvandine> hey dobey
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> I cleaned gnome-control-center and gedit previous week and I'm still catching up from the weekends feedback flood today ;-)
<dobey> don't be blaming me for that
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, is there any chance you could do an evolution bug triage round to see if there is any issue worth having on the sru list today?
<seb128> hey dobey
 * kenvandine would love to get that nasty evolution alarm notify bug fixed... it is killing me
<seb128> dobey, we do blame you, we got a flood of unhappy nautilus users due to you! ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, what bug?
<dobey> all nautilus users are unhappy. but i didn't write nautilus, so don't blame me. blame eazel
<kenvandine> it is fixed upstream, i think you commented that we would wait for the .1
<kenvandine> it pegs the CPU while notifying for all past events
<seb128> kenvandine, the "reminder you from all the old meetings" one?
<kenvandine> for google calendars
<seb128> right
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> well, GNOME 3.2.1 tarballs are due today
<kenvandine> woot
<seb128> so not a long time to wait :p
<seb128> quite a lot are out btw
<seb128> if people feel like helping with SRUing some
<seb128> I will update the pad
<dobey> blame the platform :)
 * didrocks will have time to start on updates in a hour
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<kenvandine> good morning njpatel!
<njpatel> hey kenvandine
<njpatel> kenvandine, how goes it?
<kenvandine> njpatel, good
<dobey> seb128: hrmm, that nautilus type-ahead bug doesn't happen for me
<seb128> dobey, try changing folder
<seb128> dobey, do you use the icon view?
<dobey> seb128: i did. backspaced all the way to /, and typed "et" and etc was selected
<seb128> dobey, right, and the typeahead entry closed right?
<dobey> let me check again, but don't think so
<seb128> dobey, ok, do that, type etc and type etc again
<dobey> no
<dobey> well, it closed after a timeout
<seb128> right
<seb128> then type etc again
<seb128> then try to use typeahead
<seb128> here I type "etc", it selected it, I wait, I type "e", the selection unselects itself and typeahead is broken
<dobey> ok, i hit another bug
<dobey> but not the one described
<seb128> there as several variants
<seb128> if you try to browse a few directories you will hit issues
<seb128> like try to do etc, enter, apt, enter, sources.list
<seb128> it's likely you will hit the typeahead entry closing while you are still typing
<seb128> or the selection vanishing and typeahead which stops working
<dobey> seb128: it breaks after i hit "enter" on a selected folder from the typeahead, after which typeahead just stops working completely in that nautilus window
<dobey> the search window never pops up again, and typing does nothing
<seb128> right
<seb128> well it's not specific to enter
<seb128> dobey, like if instead of typing "etc" you type "e" and enter it will enter etc and still work
<seb128> but it will not clear the entry
<dobey> eh?
<seb128> then typing a letter will break it
<dobey> oh well
<cyphermox> seb128: certainly
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks, in fact I just noticed that the 3.2.1 evo tarballs are already out if you want to claim those on the etherpad and sru
<cyphermox> ah, nice
<rodrigo_> just found out why my laptop didn't boot with the 3.0 kernel
<rodrigo_> seems the 'root (hd0,0)' line is incorrect
<rodrigo_> I removed it and added 'root=/dev/sda1' to the kernel line
<rodrigo_> so I guess this is a left over from an upgrade?
<rodrigo_> doesn't happen on my desktop pc
<seb128> rodrigo_, not sure, maybe mention it on #ubuntu-devel
<rodrigo_> yeah
<cyphermox> rodrigo_: afaik the root command and root= don't achieve the same things at all
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw is bug #841280 still on your list? we keep getting duplicates, it's hitting quite some users (installing esperanto seems enough to trigger it for example)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 841280 in gnome-control-center "gnome-control-center crashed with SIGSEGV in count_languages_and_territories()" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/841280
<cyphermox> rodrigo_: are you failing to boot at grub (e.g. a syntax error or something in grub itself), or during boot when the initrd gets loaded (and possibly a message along the lines of "Invalid root")
<dobey> rodrigo_: /dev/foo is no longer used to refer to devices, as they aren't guaranteed to be consistent across boots. UUID of partitions are usually used, but the hd0,0 syntax seems correct
<dobey> for grub anyway
<rodrigo_> dobey, it doesn't like it on my laptop though
<dobey> dunno. bug the kernel kids i guess :)
<didrocks> pitti: you didn't push your gnome-menus cache changes, will be with the update in -proposed
<pitti> didrocks: ah, please not
<pitti> didrocks: I queued them for precise
<didrocks> pitti: ah ok, was wondering :)
<pitti> didrocks: sorry, you mean s/push/upload/?
<didrocks> well, it's only gnome-menu 3.2.0.1, I'll diverge later then and do both upload for .1
<pitti> I thought I just pushed without uploading
<didrocks> pitti: yeah
<didrocks> pitti: hence I was wondering if you wanted that in -proposed or not
<pitti> no, these branches should be for the devel version only
<pitti> i. e. the /ubuntu ones
<didrocks> but message received, will do both upload :)
<pitti> we can create /oneiric etc. for SRUs?
<pitti> didrocks: cheers
<didrocks> pitti: well, that's what I proposed some cycle ago but I was the only one to use themâ¦
<pitti> I did that as well
<pitti> branched, updated Vcs-Bzr, uploaded
<pitti> but I'm not that fussed about which branches to use for SRUs
<didrocks> I often noticed that people didn't look at Vcs-Bzr for -updates
<didrocks> same for me
<didrocks> just noticed I spent more time reconciling the branch than working, so ended up to just apt-get source
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: I usually use the vcs for srus until there is divergence then apt-get source
<seb128> but I've nothing against others creating sru vcs-es, I just didn't feel it was worth doing before
<didrocks> I don't care either way TBH, I'm using the vcs for where we don't diverge as well :)
<didrocks> waow, gedit 3.2.1 replaced a GtkTable by a GtkGrid
<didrocks> that results in some code changeâ¦
<didrocks> at least, it's only on the replace dialog, let's try to dogfood that
<CarlFK> how do I turn off the sound that plays on login?
<CarlFK> script is the ultimate goal, but I can't find a gui option
<seb128> CarlFK, there is no gui option
<CarlFK> crazy.  I personally don't really care, but should that be logged as a bug? (guessing it already is)
<didrocks> seb128: versions.html isn't updating anymore FYI. (and no, I didn't touch at the crontab yet ;))
<seb128> didrocks, do you want me to have a look?
<didrocks> seb128: I will have a look, just ensuring it's not on purpose
<seb128> CarlFK, bug #840858
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 840858 in gnome-control-center "No obvious way to disable Ubuntu startup sound" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840858
<seb128> didrocks, no, it stopped updating on friday it seems not sure why
<seb128> guess something in the script didn't like the serie changes on launchpad
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, ok, will look at it. Just testing a little bit more my new updates
<seb128> (random guess)
<didrocks> yeah, probably
<didrocks> brb
<CarlFK> seb128: thanks.
<seb128> CarlFK, yw
<CarlFK> any idea how I can do it from a script?  or where the patch is, maybe that will give me a clue
<mdeslaur> seb128: is the user indicator switcher thingy gone from the default oneiric desktop? how do I remove it from mine?
<seb128> mdeslaur, no it's not
<seb128> you mean the menu with your name?
<mdeslaur> seb128: yes, that one
<seb128> it's hidden if there is only one user
<mdeslaur> seb128: ah, guess mine's broken then
<seb128> mdeslaur, or you can run dconf-editor -> apps -> indicator-sessions
<seb128> there is a "user-show-menu" key
<mdeslaur> hmm, I wonder why mine is showing and I only have 1 user
<didrocks> seb128: wasn't it reverted even if you have one user?
<didrocks> like, always show now?
<mdeslaur> didrocks: my default install on my test laptop doesn't show it
<didrocks> mdeslaur: oh? ok, so a bug somewhere, I do see it there with only one user
<didrocks> and when I asked I was told the decision was changed to always see it
<didrocks> (but that was more than a month ago)
<seb128> didrocks, not sure, but guest account count as an user as well
<seb128> didrocks, if you disable guest account it might get hidden
<didrocks> ah, that can explain it if mdeslaur has remove the guest account :)
<didrocks> removed*
<mdeslaur> oh! let me try that
<seb128> mdeslaur, did you disable the guest account?
<mdeslaur> you know how paranoid us security people are
<didrocks> they disable everything! :p
<seb128> mdeslaur, well you said "test laptop", I didn't knew you were paranoid about test machines as well :p
<mdeslaur> seb128: I installed it to specifically test how to disable the guest account from appearing in lightdm, as I had some complaints from people way more paranoid than I am
<seb128> mdeslaur, ;-)
<didrocks> if this is really the case, the behavior makes sense
<mdeslaur> seb128, didrocks: ok, confirmed
<mdeslaur> my fault, sorry for the noise
<seb128> no worry
<seb128> that also answers didrocks' question
<seb128> they still hide it ;-)
<mdeslaur> seb128: before I blog about it, there's no GUI to disable the guest account, right? it's a lightdm.conf setting only?
<seb128> mdeslaur, correct
<mdeslaur> seb128: ok, thanks
<seb128> yw
<didrocks> great then, I think they have hidden it even with guest session being there first
<didrocks> but the current behavior is better
<seb128> kenvandine, could you check on bug #871646?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 871646 in empathy "No notification for new messages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871646
 * kenvandine looks
<seb128> kenvandine, no clue about the bug, it just gets quite some comments
<mdeslaur> is not remember where your blog is hosted a sign that you should blog more?
<mdeslaur> s/remember/remembering/
 * didrocks would love a --verbose on version.py, not sure if it's stalled or something else :)
<didrocks> time to get it and debug locally
<didrocks> weird that the contrab refers to 06,36 * * * * ~/desktop/versions-update which doesn't exist though
<seb128> didrocks, DEBUG=1 ./version.py
<seb128> didrocks, but feel free to change for an environment to a command line option if you prefer
<seb128> or to add the option
<didrocks> seb128: ah nice, will use this for now
<seb128> drwxr-xr-x 3 platform platform 4.0K 2011-10-14 10:56 desktop
<seb128> didrocks, seems like somebody moved "versions-updated" on friday
<seb128> it's not me I was off work on friday, maybe pitti did?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, seems to be just that, I'm running it manually once with debug info to see if it doesn't go crazy
<pitti> didrocks, seb128: I think I accidentally killed that when I cleaned up old stuff (we ran out of disk)
<didrocks> ah Unable to open URL: http://people.gnome.org/~vuntz/tmp/versions/versions-unstable, [Errno 110] Connection timed out
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, too many sweeping :-)
<pitti> what is versions-update?
<seb128> pitti, it was a
<pitti> yeah, wrong globbing, sorry about that
<didrocks> it's the script that bzr pull and run the script?
<seb128> pitti, it was a 3 line wrapper to call the versions code
<seb128> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> pitti: seb128: ok, readding it :)
<pitti> didrocks: thanks; sorry for the hassle
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> mystery solved!
<seb128> didrocks, the <didrocks> ah Unable to open URL: http://people.gnome.org/~vuntz/tmp/versions/versions-unstable, [Errno 110] Connection timed out
<didrocks> pitti: no worry, better to know why :-)
<seb128> doesn't look good though
<glatzor> hello mvo, should we have a blueprint for the pk compat thingy in aptdaemon?
<didrocks> well, it's all vuntz's fault :p
<glatzor> mvo, in preparation for UDS
<didrocks> let's try again see if it was temporary, I can access it
<seb128> didrocks, oh
<seb128> let me restore versions-updates
<seb128> I've a copye
<seb128> export http_proxy=http://squid.internal:3128/
<seb128> export ftp_proxy=http://squid.internal:3128/
<seb128> cd versions; python versions.py; cp versions.html ../public_html
<didrocks> seb128: oh great!
<didrocks> ahah
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: ^ it does thaty
<didrocks> ok, that makes sense :)
<seb128> the proxy are useful as well ;-)
<didrocks> so that's how it can reach vuntz!
<seb128> didrocks, restored
<didrocks> thanks seb128
<seb128> didrocks, yw, thanks for looking into it
<didrocks> no worry
<seb128> pitti, sorry we took those 179 octets back :p
<seb128> you will need to find space somewhere else ;-)
<didrocks> 179 octets, are you fool! :-)
<pitti> heh, np :) I deleted some 16 GB of old WI tracker data, plus some other old stuff
 * didrocks cleaned his ~ as well this morning on lillypilly, just noticed an old UNE iso :-) otherwise, nothing interesting, but just cleaning for cleaning
<didrocks> let's make the script still tracking Oneiric I guess for the unapproved queue
<pitti> good night everyone! time for taekwondo
<rodrigo_> bye pitti
<seb128> 'night pitti
<didrocks> enjoy your taekwondo pitti :)
<xclaesse> seb128, didrocks: is there an important reason why we don't have gdm 3.2 in oneiric?
<jbicha> xclaesse: GDM 3.2 doesn't work well in Ubuntu yet
<seb128> xclaesse, define "important"? I think ricotz looked at it but didn't get it to work. Otherwise nobody cared enough to do the update since it's community maintained since we switched to lightdm for Ubuntu
<didrocks> xclaesse: what jbicha said, people taking more deep look at this are jbicha and ricotz (as they look at GNOME Shell)
<seb128> or "we had too much to do and it's a priority since it's not our default dm and nobody stepped up to help"
<jbicha> and GDM 3.0 is stable as we've been using it for 6 months
<xclaesse> yeah by "important" i meant something like does it totally break, or is it just like for totem lack of space, etc
<jbicha> seb128: could you accept my totem in the oneiric-proposed queue?
<seb128> jbicha, no, I'm not in the sru team, but pitti probably can
<xclaesse> does lightdm does on-screen keyboard?
<ricb17> I'm having trouble accessing a windows DFS share via 10.4 LTS, but it works fine on 11.04
<ricb17> http://pastebin.com/4aEp9Ynp
<jbicha> seb128: oh ok
<jbicha> xclaesse: there's an experimental GDM 3.2 build at https://launchpad.net/~tista/+archive/gtk3/+packages
<ricb17> anyone have any suggestions on how to see what package may need to be upgraded?
<xclaesse> seb128, FYI setting autologin user in gdm makes it not start at all on oneiric
<didrocks> xclaesse: it can run onboard, yeah
<xclaesse> didrocks, is that the small ugly window like 10 years ago, or a nice thing like caribou ?
<didrocks> xclaesse: it's a tweak one, there are colors IIRC now for making it more accessible
<seb128> or, done with catching up with the desktop bugs since thursday evening, it took me the day (well I replied and commented on quite some)
<seb128> I'm out for a bit, need a work break ;-)
<seb128> bbl
<didrocks> seb128: stop taking holidays on Friday, see how bad it is! :-)
<didrocks> seb128: enjoy, see you probably tomorrow!
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, you as well!
<didrocks> :-)
<didrocks> thanks!
<seb128> rodrigo_, I noted you down for the g-s-d and g-c-c updates on the etherpad
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for the other ones you took on
<didrocks> you're welcome
<didrocks> seb128: stop adding back the one I steal! :-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, I'm 1st doing some testing to make sure nothing breaks
<seb128> didrocks, lol, sorry about that, I though I deleted one by error
<didrocks> jbicha: did you push gnome-utils anywhere? (seeing a staged change, but no upload)
<didrocks> seb128: heh, no worry :)
<seb128> didrocks, no, we said the fix could wait for the .1 upload for gnome-utils
<seb128> so no upload
<jbicha> didrocks: no, I didn't upload it
<didrocks> seb128: jbicha: ok, thanks for confirming, I'll use this bug report :)
<CarlFK> jbicha:
<CarlFK> er..
<CarlFK> Bug #840858   "... committed my fix to the ubuntu-desktop branch."   can you point me to that, or just tell me what gconf key I need to set
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 840858 in gnome-control-center "No obvious way to disable Ubuntu startup sound" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840858
<jbicha> CarlFK: this is basically the fix: http://maketecheasier.com/disable-login-sound-in-ubuntu-oneiric-quick-tips/2011/09/15
<jbicha> my change eliminates steps 1 and 2
<rodrigo_> ok, out for a bit, bbl
<CarlFK> jbicha: thanks.  but I need to script it, "gsettings list-recursively |grep startup" nothing... where is the list of startup apps found?
<jbicha> CarlFK: it's not in gsettings, it's in /etc/xdg/autostart/
<slangasek> mvo: the upgrade hasn't "forgotten" /var/run and /var/lock; /etc/rc6.d has been scrambled, making it impossible for the migration code to run reliably
<CarlFK> jbicha: thanks.  figured it was something like that
<didrocks> ok, time for some exercice and dinner, see you tomorrow everyone!
<kenvandine> good night didrocks
<didrocks> have a good evening kenvandine :)
<xclaesse> jbicha, hmm, I've picked gdm from your ppa but it won't start :(
<xclaesse> package from there: https://launchpad.net/~tista/+archive/gtk3/+packages
<jbicha> xclaesse: it's not my PPA and that answers your question of why it's not in Oneiric ;)
<xclaesse> :)
<jbicha> xclaesse: when it's more usable, it will show up in https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/
<ricotz> xclaesse, be careful with this package!
<xclaesse> jbicha, ah that gnome3 ppa is still used...
<xclaesse> I though it was only for backports to natty
<jbicha> xclaesse: it's the new and improved gnome3 ppa!
<xclaesse> ricotz, yeah, luckily I can fallback to lightdm to log again :p
<ricotz> xclaesse, i mean this gdm package
<xclaesse> ricotz, yep, that's what I mean, the package broken gdm here :)
<xclaesse> can't log anymore, had to change to use lightdm
<ricotz> yeah, this tista messed around with the packaging quite a bit, like (accidently) reverting a lot of patches
<CarlFK> jbicha: where is the "[x] Gnome Login Sound" setting stored ?
<mvo> slangasek: thanks
<maxb> Ok, so I've cp-ed /usr/share/themes/Radiance to /usr/share/themes/MyRadiance before I hack on it a bit, and changed the internal identifiers in index.theme - how do I make the running desktop become aware of the new theme?
<jbicha> maxb: if you're talking about System Settings>Appearance, that is hard-coded to only support the standard themes + Adwaita, have you tried gnome-tweak-tool?
<maxb> that.... seems like a spectacularly bizarre decision
<geser> is this an upstream decision or an Ubuntu one?
<jbicha> well, GNOME doesn't include a theme switcher at all so Ubuntu has added one but it doesn't support 3rd party themes
<dobey> maxb: you can change it in dconf-editor, or use ~/.gtkrc-3.0 maybe (or whatever file gtk3 looks for now)
<micahg> seb128: do you want a thread/session for webkit version?  I'm going to be trying to get some type of LTS commitment upstream for us, just not sure if that will end up being 1.6 or 1.8 (or nothing :()
<luckyduck> Hi. Anybody else experiencing performance issues after 11.10 upgrade on amd64?
<luckyduck> 11.04 worked fine
<luckyduck> I've tried different nvidia drivers (dual monitor setup), but all of them seem to have issues.
<luckyduck> Google doesn't shows the answers. Only found other people with simmilar problems :-/
<luckyduck> (generally the windows are laggy)
<cyphermox> luckyduck: what kind of issues, just laggy effects?
<geser> jjardon: I saw that you marked bug #835297 as a dupe of bug #855287. It describes the same problem but I doubt that fix to lupin would fix my issue too as I got this problem from an upgrade from natty to the (at that time) development version and my installation is several releases old.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 835297 in indicator-datetime "Time not being shown, substituted by the word "Time"" (dup-of: 855287)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/835297
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 855287 in lupin "date/time indicator displays string 'Time' instead of date/time on Wubi installation" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855287
<luckyduck> cyphermox: yes
<luckyduck> luckyduck: when I move windows around, open new ones and stuff like that, the windows appears to be laggy
<luckyduck> sound lagged a few times as well when i started chromium
<luckyduck> None of this was an issue in 11.04. I doubt that my hardware is to slow or something like that.
<luckyduck> Another example: When I simply scroll in PhpStorm the window doesnt get redrawn fast enough
<cyphermox> best I can offer is that you should file a bug
<luckyduck> ok, thx
<broder> is there any way to cross-reference an accessible object on the at-spi bridge with its window id?
<broder> (i'm working on some code that needs to use both at-spi and libwnck to get its job done)
<dobey> broder: i'd guess you'd need the accessible object for the toplevel for whichever widget the accessible points at,
<broder> dobey: right, and once i have that...?
<dobey> broder: i thought the window ID was in the object's data somewhere
<broder> hmm...i'll go look again
<dobey> it has been a long time since i've looked at any lower level stuff in that realm though
<Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: ping?
<seb128> re
<rdesfo> hello
<rdesfo> I'm using xubuntu 11.10 and my terminal wont write 'a'
<rdesfo> it will still write 'A' and 'a' appears in my other applications.  Does any one know how to fix this?
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-10-18
<anshrpr1> cmake command failed while configuring touchlib on ubuntu 11.10. Following this tutorial: http://theworm.tw/2011/04/2-how-to-install-touchlib-on-linux/  Here is the generated error: http://pastebin.com/dazLtWX7
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Morning pitti :)
<pitti> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> Eh, ok.  I was perhaps a little bit too ambitious on the weekend gardening front, and my back now wants a word with me :/
<RAOF> Other than that, super.
<RAOF> 'twas our 2 year wedding aniversary yesterday :)
<pitti> heh
<pitti> RAOF: oh, congrats!
<pitti> RAOF: did you cook a nice dinner?
<RAOF> We had more of a lazy dinner on the couch :)
<RAOF> We'll go out to dinner to a fancy restaurant sometime soon
<RAOF> Sam hankers for a steak :)
<RAOF> Hm.  duplicity probably shouldn't be eating 3.8GiB RSS.
<pitti> ugh SRU queues
<RAOF> Whenever I start on them it seems that someone else is half-way through clearing them.
<pitti> I got them down to 3 now
<pitti> now off to fixing the KeyError crash that pending-sru chokes on
<RAOF> Yay? :)
<pitti> presumably a private bug
<pitti> that should do it
<pitti> robert_ancell: hey Robert, how are you?
<pitti> robert_ancell: how is lightdm holding up in the wild so far? get flooded with bug reports, or is it mostly stable?
<robert_ancell> pitti, a marked increase in reports, there's some annoying bugs out there, but I think the majority are doing OK
<pitti> good to hear
<pitti> robert_ancell: how would you like to handle bug 874635? want a merge proposal from me, or just want to commit simple stuff like this?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 874635 in lightdm "Guest session throws an apparmor denial" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874635
<robert_ancell> pitti, I've got a stable branch which has some changes - do you recommend cherry picking things onto the ubuntu branch or going with a full release?
<robert_ancell> pitti, yes, please just commit directly
<pitti> robert_ancell: I can't commit upstream
<pitti> robert_ancell: but for stuff like that I wouldn't mind being able to
<robert_ancell> pitti, you can now
<pitti> robert_ancell: anyway, if you by and large create the stable branch with cherrypicks for LP bugs, all of which you'd want to SRU anyway, please upload the whole thing (i. e. microrelease)
<pitti> robert_ancell: it's easier to package (no patches mess), and also more beneficial for other distros who use the upstream tarballs IMHO
<robert_ancell> ok, I'll just make sure it's extra tested before uploading then :)
<pitti> robert_ancell: ok, so for above bug, I'd commit to lp:lightdm and then cherry-pick into lp:lightdm/1.0  ?
<robert_ancell> pitti, sure
<pitti> robert_ancell: I mean, lp:lightdm/1.0 is the correct one?
<robert_ancell> yes
<pitti> cool, thanks
<pitti> RAOF: hooray! http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<RAOF> Wohoooo!  Working again!
<RAOF> Also, nice low numbers :)
<pitti> robert_ancell: ok, done
<didrocks> good morning
<TheMuso> c
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<rickspencer3> hey didrocks, hey TheMuso
<didrocks> good morning rickspencer3
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<rickspencer3> hey pitti
<rickspencer3> bonjour mes amis
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, nous parlons Francais sealement en #u-desktop!
<didrocks> rickspencer3: pas de problÃ¨me, je pense que tu seras lassÃ© avant moi! :-)
<pitti> didrocks: quite well, thanks! playing SRU whack-a-mole :)
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, seeing that. cnd emailed me an evince patch for utouch, maybe I should upload it in addition to what we already have (bumping the version as you accepted the update)?
 * rickspencer3 is still not used to ubuntu-mono when programming
<rickspencer3> didrocks, vuntz suggested that we all get together in Lyon sometime with winter
<rickspencer3> maybe with seb128
<didrocks> rickspencer3: oh? I would say it took me 3 days to accomodate and I made myself the remark yesterday that I don't notice it anymore
<didrocks> rickspencer3: that would be nice, do you know about the 8 december in Lyon?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, nope
<pitti> didrocks: fine for me; just build with -v, please
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I'm not used to Ubuntu Mono, but I like it
<rickspencer3> no reason your font needs to be ugly while programming
<didrocks> rickspencer3: it's the "fÃªte des lumiÃ¨res", all the city is illuminated for 5 days. It attracts a lot of people: http://www.fetedeslumieres.lyon.fr/
<didrocks> pitti: sure, will do
<rickspencer3> oooh
<didrocks> if you want some photo to see what it looks like: http://www.google.fr/search?q=8+december+Lyon&hl=fr&client=ubuntu&hs=4Fj&channel=cs&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=yBidTuDmMu7N4QSa54ioCQ&ved=0CGIQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=1114
<didrocks> (it's every year in the whole city)
<rickspencer3> aaaaaahhhhh
<vuntz> didrocks: ah, 5 days. I remember the days when it was only on December 8th
 * rickspencer3 beats dbus about the head with club
<vuntz> do I sound like an old grumpy man? ;-)
<didrocks> vuntz: I knew this as well :-) seems to be "only" 4 days this year though!
<didrocks> hey vuntz btw ;)
<vuntz> ola
<rickspencer3> seif, I fixed a small bug in your Zeitgeist script, is there somewhere I can submit a patch?
<didrocks> pitti: evince uploaded FYI
<seif> rickspencer3, well the actual code is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~activity-log-manager/activity-log-manager/trunk/view/head:/alm/remote.py
<seif> so bzr branch lp:activity-log-manager
<seif> and try out the UI
<rickspencer3> thanks seif
<didrocks> pitti: forgot to push eog?
<pitti> didrocks: seems it's diverged now; but it's only the UDD branch anyway
<pitti> Vcs-Bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/eog/ubuntu
<pitti> is that really current?
<didrocks> oh, ,it's not anymore ~ubuntu-desktop/eog/ubuntu?
<pitti> didrocks: if so, Vcs-Bzr: needs updating
<didrocks> this contains 3.1.92-0ubuntu2
<didrocks> and:
<didrocks> eog (3.1.92-0ubuntu3) UNRELEASED; urgency=low
<didrocks>   * Update Bzr-Vcs tag to point to ~ubuntu-desktop instead of ~gnome3-team
<pitti> ah, heh
<pitti> so that wasn't uploaded, and thus when I did the 3.2 update I didn't see it with debcheckout yet
<didrocks> pitti: I'll take your change and apply there then
<pitti> sorry about that
<pitti> didrocks: merci
<didrocks> no worry :)
<pitti> back in 30 mins
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, good morning!
<bryceh> *wave* chrisccoulson
<seb128> hey
 * bigon realised that http://packages.qa.debian.org/f/freedesktop-sound-theme.html vs https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sound-theme-freedesktop
<didrocks> pitti: debian/source_gnome-power-manager.py isn't useful anymore, isn't it? you want its removal in the SRU?
<didrocks> salut seb128
<didrocks> seb128: I fixed the update-versions script to actually copy the page at the right page :)
<didrocks> seb128: how are you?
<didrocks> right place*
<seb128> re
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, I just copied my old version
<seb128> it was probably not adapted to the ubuntu-platform layout, I didn't check that
<didrocks> was etooold it seems :-)
<seb128> didrocks, I'm good thanks, how are you
<didrocks> yeah, no worry! ;)
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks
<seb128> (hate how switching from wifi to eth on dock force you do restart IRC)
<micahg> +1
<seb128> waouh, didrocks is active, I had planned to look at the nautilus SRU in the morning ;-)
<didrocks> too late, testing it there! :)
<seb128> didrocks, it closes at least 3 bugs btw, but you will probably figure that, I nominated those for oneiric iirc
<didrocks> already listed :-)
<didrocks> I just needed to add the ubuntu-sru people and all was already fine!
<seb128> great
<didrocks> ah great, new nautilus is segfaulting there though
<didrocks> interesting, it seems not every patches listed as git_* comes from git (or maybe they have been reverted)
<didrocks> (thanks god, I still had nautilus-open-terminal installed to get it)
<seb128> didrocks, they all come from git but from trunk
<seb128> since upstream did only commit to trunk for a month
<seb128> then did backporting the day of 3.2.1 to gnome-3-2
<seb128> it's possible that I did backport stuff they forgot ;-)
<didrocks> ah, seems they didn't backport everything then :)
<didrocks> right
<tjaalton> mvo: hey, update-manager crashes here when I click 'apply updates'
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: was robert_ancell online today? do you know what are his plans for a lightdm SRU?
<tjaalton> mvo: (oneiric)
<mvo> tjaalton: what is the error?
<didrocks> seb128: I didn't see him speaking
<seb128> ok
<tjaalton> mvo: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.Spawn.ChildExited: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 1
<tjaalton> mvo: well, it doesn't crash, but hang
<mvo> tjaalton: oh, *ick* could you enable apport please? and/or run "sudo aptd -t  -r" and see if that prints anything that looks like a error when you hit apply?
<mvo> tjaalton: this smells like aptdaemon (or python-apt, libap) are crashing when u-m ask for the apply
<tjaalton> mvo: sure, how exactly do I enable apport? :)
<tjaalton> post-release
<mvo> tjaalton: just edit /etc/default/apport (or look at the comment there how to just run it without enabling it forever :)
<pitti> re
<pitti> didrocks: the removal of the hook was precise cleanup; not necessary to SRU this
<tjaalton> mvo: ah, done
<didrocks> pitti: hum, ok, will diverge then
<pitti> seb128: yes, he was
<seb128> pitti, if you see him tomorrow can you hint him to SRU what is in 1.0? ;-)
<pitti> seb128: he was planning one, yes, just working on some fixes for the 1.0.x release
<seb128> pitti, he has enough commit and fixes that he should upload
<seb128> pitti, if he keeps adding fixes it will increase the chance there is an issue with the SRU, better to do one now and another one later
<seb128> pitti, ok, I will just drop him an email I think, thanks ;-)
<seb128> pitti, how are you btw?
<tjaalton> mvo: ok, got this http://paste.ubuntu.com/711737/
<pitti> seb128: (back in a bit, on the phone)
<tjaalton> mvo: so, sounds more like a fallout of something else
<mvo> woah
<mvo> tjaalton: what is currently running on this system? the default number of connection on the system bus is 5000 nowdays, we could increase this further if its not enough
<mvo> tjaalton: fwiw, the old default (back in ~lucid) was 512
<tjaalton> mvo: couple of desktop sessions, nothing special
<tjaalton> oh and orchestra, though I don't think it would mess things up like this
<chrisccoulson> pitti - have you seen the discussion on the upstream bug for bug 867424?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 867424 in firefox "Oneric: On boot up Firefox always displays the âWell, This Is Embarrassingâ screen." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867424
<mvo> tjaalton: could you run sudo dbus-monitor --system to see if there is a lot of traffic ?
<chrisccoulson> it's a pain ;)
<tjaalton> mvo: mmh, same error
<mvo> tjaalton: haha
<mvo> tjaalton: I guess d-feet will also not work then?
<mvo> tjaalton: that would be interessting too to see what is on the bus
<tjaalton> mvo: what params should i give to it?
<mvo> tjaalton: d-feet should just start, its a gui, and there is a option to connect to the system or session bus
<seb128> mvo, hey
<tjaalton> mvo: right.. same error again
<mvo> hey seb128
<mvo> seb128, pitti: any idea how to ask dbus what is using up all connections on the system bus?
<seb128> mvo, is that known that the update-manager "do you want to upgrade to 11.10" dialog, "can you ask me again later" button on natty does nothing?
<mvo> seb128: yeah, fix is in natty-updates
<mvo> seb128: eh, -proposed
<seb128> mvo, ok, I've people in the familly who got confused and asked me what was going on
<seb128> mvo, danke
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I didn't, no; but I wonder how new that really is -- it did the very same thing in maverick and earlier, too
<mvo> seb128: yeah, sorry for that :/
<pitti> I just got used to click on the "restore" button at each session start
<seb128> mvo, no worry, I know how it goes ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I'm quite well, thanks! how about you?
<pitti> seb128: I'm doing some udisks2 hacking these days
<seb128> pitti, I'm fine, my start of cold is stable and light ;-)
<mvo> seb128: you got a cold? and you bring it to uds?
<pitti> seb128: this is a weird thing -- I had a kind of a cold for a whole week a week ago, and it never seemed to outbreak completely
<pitti> like a cold spread out over two weeks
<pitti> heard from several people who also had this
<pitti> cold viruses are mutating apparently :)
<pitti> mvo: you could check in d-feet?
<seb128> yeah, I like it better this way :p
<pitti> mvo: presumably there's some buggy program which uses up hundreds of connections?
<seb128> mvo, don't worry it will be over before UDS ;-)
<mvo> pitti: see above, tjaalton actually is the one with no dbus pipes left and d-feet does not let him connect anymore, nor does dbus-monitor (which sucks when you want to debug what the problem is :)
<mvo> tjaalton: what do you see with "lsof /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket" ? does that give you a huge number of lines?
<pitti> mvo, tjaalton: hm, perhaps /proc/<pid of daemon>/fd/ and lsof gives some info here?
<tjaalton> mvo: yep
<mvo> tjaalton: how many? just curious, I got 56 on my box
<tjaalton> mvo: though only 311
<mvo> tjaalton: and its all dbus-daemon, right? no trace of what connects to it from the other side?
<tjaalton> mvo: yes
<mvo> tjaalton: hrm, anything useful in netstat -x -p? that should give you the pairs of dbus-daemon and what is connected to them
<tjaalton> mvo: aha! cupsd :)
<tjaalton> 241 connections
<mvo> !!!
<mvo> are you happening to print 241 individual documents ;) ?
<mvo> if not, I guess that is a cups bug
<tjaalton> heh, no nothing in the queue
<mvo> tjaalton: that is probably worth debugging with tkamppeter if he is online
<tjaalton> yep, I'll leave it running
<mvo> tkamppeter: if/when you around, could you please get in touch with tjaalton to debug a issue where cupsd is holding 241 dbus connection making the bus full and other apps (like update-manager) fail?
<tkamppeter> mvo, tjaalton, I am here.
<chrisccoulson> nice, my apple magic trackpad has just arrived :)
<tkamppeter> mvo, tjaalton, I had never problems with CUPS' D-Bus usage and I have a machine with ~15 physical printers and ~100 queues and it never showed any D-Bus failures.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, did you get one for personal use or for debugging? ;-)
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: ok, if you have ideas how to dig deeper..
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i got it for implementing touch events in firefox
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> "fun" ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw firefox users keep complaining about broken proxy settings because your still use gconf and the gsettings to gconf glue has issues :-(
<tkamppeter> tjaalton, you could set CUPS to debug mode and look into /var/log/cups/error_log which D-Bus events are reported, see "CUPS error_log" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingPrintingProblems.
<tkamppeter> I do not know how to monitor-D-Bus events and how D-Bus does debug logging, as I never had problems with D-Bus.
<tkamppeter> tjaalton, at least not with a clogged D-Bus.
<chrisccoulson> seb128, mozilla bug 682832 ;)
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 682832 in Shell Integration "Gnome 3 proxy settings ignored" [Normal,Assigned: ] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682832
<chrisccoulson> seb128, btw, the pin settings in the bluetooth setup don't work :(
<chrisccoulson> if i choose "0000" and then try to pair a device, it uses a random pin anywa
<chrisccoulson> **anyway
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you just won the right to debug bastien's code ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so it seems that mozilla bug 611953 got fixed right?
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 611953 in Shell Integration "GNOME 3.0 readiness" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=611953
<chrisccoulson> seb128, not yet
<seb128> chrisccoulson, gsettings is already being used so nothing should block the proxy one?
<seb128> hum
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, your 2 patches landed in some vcs
<seb128> that was months ago ... didn't that make it to the mainline?
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: how do i turn debug mode on? man cupsd shows no options for that
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: oh i'll check the link
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, but that didn't port the proxy settings to it
<chrisccoulson> that didn't show up when i grepped the tree for some reason ;(
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, "<seb128> chrisccoulson, gsettings is already being used so nothing should block the proxy one?"
<seb128> i.e it's not blocked as the current comment suggested
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the issue karl has is with iterating over all of the schemas when firefox starts
<seb128> it "just" needs to be done?
<chrisccoulson> yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, right, but that got done now for the background etc
<seb128> so adding the proxy shouldn't be much of a difference?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, that only happens when you change the background, rather than at startup though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, or said differently "you will fix it for the LTS right?" ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yes
<seb128> good
<seb128> it's a good opportunity to collect UDS beers ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<chrisccoulson> ok, so the bluetooth settings dialog is completely useless. i can't pair my trackpad
<seb128> :-(
<chrisccoulson> maybe if i try it enough times, it will use 0000? ;)
<seb128> it should use 0000 by default
<chrisccoulson> oh, it did it now
<chrisccoulson> it seems that you need to change the pin settings before selecting the device to pair
<chrisccoulson> that's intuitive ;)
<chrisccoulson> yay, it works :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw I did my after release bug email catchup on thunderbird yesterday
<seb128> spent half my day using it
<seb128> it has good aspects, but still doens't feel like a GNOME application :-(
<tjaalton> yeah, it just works ;)
<seb128> it has some pretty frustrating thing as well though
<chrisccoulson> is that a bad thing? (not feeling like a gnome application) ;)
<seb128> like the default thread view is useless
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you need the conversations addon installed
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> can we install it by default? ;-)
<tjaalton> that doesn't work with bugmail
<seb128> I also hate the search boxes
<seb128> I keep using the top one
<seb128> which is not what I want
<chrisccoulson> yeah, the search is a bit confusing
<seb128> but maybe that's a "getting used to" thing
<chrisccoulson> that was highlighted in the user testing though
<chrisccoulson> excellent, my flight to berlin is booked :)
<seb128> I also wish I could tweak keybindings, is there a way to do that?
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if there's a way to do that
<chrisccoulson> i could probably write an extension to do that ;)
<seb128> ok
<chrisccoulson> i've never felt the need to change those
<seb128> well overall is good, I'm just used to my keybindings I think :p and I don't like the default display only one line by discussion
<seb128> especially for bug emails reading :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, I got used to delete bug mails I don't care about and "clean" the view by compacting the folder, it's annoying to have to take the mouse and right click for that :-)
<chrisccoulson> you should stop reading bug mails ;)
<seb128> yeah, maybe I should ;-)
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<chrisccoulson> heh
<tkamppeter> tjaalton, mvo, I have run dbus-monitor --system and there are only some messages of NM on an idle system, CUPS only shouts if one does something with it, like adding a queue or printing.
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: conversations has issues still
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: found quite some bug with impossible to remove some threads
<didrocks> had to deactivate it :/
<didrocks> and it's quite slow
<seb128> bah
<chrisccoulson> oh, i haven't noticed any speed issues with it
<seb128> users, stop reporting bugs against gconf or gconf-editor because you edit GNOME2 keys and that GNOME3 doesn't react to it
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: clearly noticeable there, but I have a slow machine, remember? :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, i have a SSD + 8GB of RAM here
<chrisccoulson> so nothing is slow ;)
<didrocks> right
<didrocks> apart from that, I like the concept
<didrocks> so just need some work to be included
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not even building firefox or using unity3d? ;-)
<rodrigo_> hello
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_
<didrocks> session restart, brb
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: what are the files in /var/spool/cups/? I have only one queue, but fifty files named c000XX
<pitti> yay new gtk3 -- keybindings are back
<chrisccoulson> seb128, building firefox is quick
<tkamppeter> tjaalton, this is the job history. If you open the job viewer of system-config-printer and switch to already printed jobs you see the jobs represented by these files.
<chrisccoulson> running unity3d eventually slows down to a crawl after a few hours though (esp when dragging windows)
<chrisccoulson> but i use mostly 2d anyway ;)
<seb128> heh
<chrisccoulson> it seems more suited to my limited graphics hardware
<seb128> hum, impressive number of srus today
<tkamppeter> tjaalton, I have also around 50 of them. They do not seem to generates D-Bus shouts as long as no one asks.
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: right, was just curious
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, hi
<rodrigo_> hi tkamppeter
<chrisccoulson> seb128, are you still on oneiric btw?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, "still"
<seb128> I intend to stay on Oneiric until after UDS
<chrisccoulson> ol
<chrisccoulson> seb128, are you using https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-next ?
<seb128> we need to get SRUs through for a bit ;-)
 * pitti traditionally upgrades on UFS Friday evening
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no, I don't use ppas
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, pitti, it is about bug 874268. The user complains that the new tool complains about missing packages and that he can only set up printers via the LPD protocol. Will you fix the tool or should we switch GNOME shell users to s-c-p?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 874268 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer not reachable in menus of GNOME shell" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874268
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you should do ;)
<chrisccoulson> the beta releases are the next security update
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I'M on that
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you need testing?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - cool :)
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, looking
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can do
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i want to get people on stable releases using the beta channel as their normal browser really :)
<chrisccoulson> but we should take the opportunity to use it before upgrading to precise
<seb128> tkamppeter, do you plan to switch to the GNOME printing tools next cycle or is it still missing features?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: it still annoys me with that test extension upgrade message box each time, with the unclickable "update" button
<pitti> chrisccoulson: otherwise it's working fine
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, you shouldn't get that everytime. which box is it (as there's more than one type of box on upgrade now)?
<chrisccoulson> could you take a screenshot?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: hang on, screen shooting
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<tkamppeter> seb128, this is still to investigate and also needs work by upstream. s-c-p has a D-Bus service now to expose its algorithmic parts for other printer setup tools. What GNOME upstream has to do is to pick up this interface and use s-c-p's functionality in the new printer tool.
<seb128> tkamppeter, do you plan to investigate before UDS?
<seb128> tkamppeter, we should know early what is missing and if we can add it ourself next cycle
<tkamppeter> seb128, should we perhaps do a UDS session? Is one of the appropriate upstreams on UDS?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/ffox-testpilot-extension.png
<seb128> tkamppeter, we can do an UDS session but nobody will have a better clue there, somebody needs to compare both tools in their current version and see what is missing before UDS
<seb128> tkamppeter, so at the session we can decide if we try to get the missing things done or stay on s-c-p agan
<tkamppeter> seb128, how does one start the new GNOME print tool from the command line?
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, mkasik is working on making it have all missing features for next version, AFAIK
<seb128> tkamppeter, upstream will likely say that the upstream version has what is required, we might disagree because we want i.e non free drivers download to work
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, you can just turn off the Feedback extension to disable that. i'm not sure why i don't get the same issue here :/
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, gnome-control-center printers
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I disabled it, restarted, re-enabled, restarted again now
<pitti> chrisccoulson: seems the dialog is gone noe
<pitti> now
<pitti> chrisccoulson: I don't mind it being on
<seb128> rodrigo_, tkamppeter: rather "XDG_CURRENT_DESTKOP= gnome-control-center printers"
<seb128> if you are under unity
<rodrigo_> seb128, oh yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, we need to stop with this "GNOME said they will fix all the world issue in the next version", that's not pragmatic ;-)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, I spoke too soon -- it's back
<rodrigo_> seb128, I am just saying what the plans are for this specific tool :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti -  i think it's because of the way that we bundle test pilot in the betas. we don't provide a way for it to auto-update from addons.mozilla.org
<rodrigo_> not saying it's going to happen 100% sure
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, still we can decide what to use on "GNOME said they will get everything done" ;-)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah; I keep it disabled for now
<seb128> rodrigo_, can -> can't
<rodrigo_> no, we should fix them ourselves
<seb128> rodrigo_, especially that they said they don't want things like binary drivers downloads since that's not free software enough
<rodrigo_> yeah, that's something we really need
<rodrigo_> but who said that?
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, do you sign to fix it as well as the region capplet and all the other things you have to do? ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, I do :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, that was discussed before previous UDS, some of redhat guys said they don't want code to support non-free drivers
<rodrigo_> hmm, the situation has changed AFAICS, will talk to mkasik later
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, does not work on my boxes, I get only the main window. Only way to get the printer tool is if I log into an Oneiric box via SSH and then I do not have access to admin functions as PolicyKit does not work through SSH. Is there an env variable so that I can access the printer tool when I am in a local terminal on a Unity desktop?
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, you're running Unity? if so, you need to do the XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP thing seb128 wrote above
<rodrigo_> XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME gnome-control-center printers
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, thanks, works.
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, but "+" button does nothing.
<seb128> click unlock
<seb128> it's on the top right
<seb128> that's a bot confusing...
<seb128> bit
<tjaalton> mvo, tkamppeter: uh oh, I was barking at the wrong tree.. read the netstat output the wrong way, so while cupsd has 241 sockets open, dbus-daemon has 576 and there's one connection that it showing up many times (144)
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw you just won a stack of proxy issues, could you just look at those to see which ones are duplicates and triage them a bit, we will likely need srus for those
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you also see my ping yesterday about the segfault bug in the locale handling code which is on your list for a while?
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, no didn't see it
<rodrigo_> about the proxy issues, did you assign the bugs to me?
<seb128> rodrigo_, not sure what you work on but if that's next cycle work can you do a round of SRU work today or tomorrow? we need to land some fixes in Oneiric
<tkamppeter> seb128, there is no "Unlock" at the upper right.
<seb128> tkamppeter, can you take a screenshot of the dialog?
<mvo> tjaalton: what program is having the 144 one open?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes I did
<tjaalton> mvo: actually it's my session, so that's not it :/
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, looking
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'm working on g-s-d and g-c-c updates
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, feel free to prioritize as you feel it
<seb128> i.e get 3.2.1 out first if you want then look at those for the next upload
<seb128> or try to get those in the same upload
<seb128> your call
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<rodrigo_> will try to get all in 1 upload
<rodrigo_> dpm, ping
<xclaesse> seb128, if I set lightdm to autologin it will always go to unity
<xclaesse> it won't remember that I wanted GNOME session
<seb128> xclaesse, it's fixed in trunk and in the stable serie, will get a stable update with the fix
<seb128> xclaesse, you can edit the session in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf as a workaround
<xclaesse> seb128, oh great
<xclaesse> perfect !
<dpm> buenas rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hola dpm
<xclaesse> seb128,  thanks, that saves my demo :D
<seb128> yw ;-)
<rodrigo_> dpm, do you remember the translations we added to g-c-c package?
<dpm> rodrigo_, ah, yeah, you can drop the patch now
<rodrigo_> dpm, I was wondering if we can remove them now from the patch, or not yet?
<xclaesse> (how could I demo a touchscreen if it stuck into login with no keyboard to type the password :p)
<rodrigo_> dpm, ok cool, it didn't apply cleanly anymore :D
<dpm> ok, sorted, then :)
<mvo> tjaalton: meh :/ I need to go for lunch soonish, maybe we can try to poke at it a bit after that?
<tjaalton> mvo: yeah
<xclaesse> seb128, I guess I need to modify autologin-session but what do I set for gnome?
<xclaesse> tried just "gnome" but still going to unity
<seb128> xclaesse, http://askubuntu.com/questions/62833/how-do-i-change-the-default-session-for-lightdm-when-using-auto-logins
<seb128> try "gnome-shell"
<xclaesse> seb128, no, still unity :(
<seb128> xclaesse, can you copy your lightdm.conf content there?
<seb128> do you have a .dmrc?
<tkamppeter> seb128, screenshot on its way by e-mail.
<seb128> tkamppeter, got it
<seb128> tkamppeter, is your user an admin one?
<xclaesse> yep there is a .dmrc with session=ubuntu
<tkamppeter> seb128, yes.
<seb128> tkamppeter, dunno then
<xclaesse> seb128, lightdm.conf also has user-session=ubuntu
<seb128> xclaesse, try changing that one to gnome-shell
<seb128> those then
<xclaesse> I only modified the autologin-session to be gnome-shell. I'll modify them all now to see
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, do you have any idea for me to get the GNOME printer tool to work?
<xclaesse> seb128, thanks, working now
<seb128> xclaesse, yw
<seb128> tkamppeter, run it with sudo as a workaround?
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, I am looking at it, I think there's a fix for that in 3.2.1, testing now
<tjaalton> mvo: huh, restarting cups reduced the number of connections to /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket from 311 to 70, which matches the number of cupsd sockets (241) that were open
<tkamppeter> till@till-desktop:~$ XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME sudo gnome-control-center printers
<tkamppeter> (gnome-control-center:31709): printers-cc-panel-WARNING **: Your system does not have the cups-pk-helper's policy "org.opensuse.cupspkhelper.mechanism.all-edit" installed. Please check your installation
<tkamppeter> seb128, rodrigo_: ^^
<seb128> tkamppeter, install what it recommends?
<seb128> tkamppeter, i.e cups-pk-helper is not installed for you it seems
<seb128> it's required by the GNOME tools
<tkamppeter> seb128, I had no cups-pk-helper. I have installed it now and it works (4 Oneiric boxes, so its easy to have different stuff installed).
<seb128> right, we don't install it by default since we use system-config-printer
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, yes, you need that
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, does it work now for you?
<tkamppeter> seb128, we can install it by default now, even as SRU for Oneiric, as from Oneiric on s-c-p is fixed to be compatible with cups-pk-helper.
<seb128> tkamppeter, ok, thanks
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, now it works.
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> bug 864618
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 864618 in gnome-control-center "sets $LANG to a language name" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/864618
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, I can set up a new USB printer now, but I cannot enter or change its queue name and I cannot change the default settings for it. "Options" only allows to set users who allowed to use it.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, yes
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, found out at least now how to change the name.
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, but it does not actually works, gives "printers-cc-panel-WARNING **: client-error-not-authorized" on the calling console. Changing location works though.
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, "-" deletes a print queue without confirmation.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, yeah, right
<seb128> tkamppeter, you better play with it for a bit and takes notes on what work and note and send the summary maybe to the desktop list
<seb128> tkamppeter, I wrote a "[Desktop12.04-Topic] gnome-control-center printing capplet vs system-config-printer" email for the UDS topic, maybe reply to it?
<seb128> it will be better than IRC comments
<seb128> especially that I'm not sure rodrigo_ has worked a lot on the printing capplet code and knows about its design off hand ;-)
<tkamppeter> seb128, I did not see this e-mail, on which list is it?
<seb128> tkamppeter, ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
<seb128> tkamppeter, it was sent on octobre 4
<tkamppeter> seb128, I am not subscribed to that. Did not know that it even exists.
<seb128> tkamppeter, it's the official Ubuntu Desktop list for some years...
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, yes, I haven't worked much on the printers panel
<seb128> tkamppeter, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-October/003216.html
<tkamppeter> seb128, no one told me. I have subscribed now but no answer, seems that members get selected manually.
<chrisccoulson> tseliot, do you remember me mentioning an issue with my laptop a few weeks ago where it fakes a video-mode keypress when I dock it, which screws up the display configuration?
<tseliot> chrisccoulson: of course I do, it was too weird to forget ;)
<seb128> tkamppeter, no, you should get an answer, it's a public list
<chrisccoulson> tseliot, i'm not sure if you're the right person to ask actually, but is there any way we can get a confirmation from dell that this is expected?
<chrisccoulson> we're probably going to work around it by ignoring the keypress for some duration after the display configuration changes
<chrisccoulson> but want to make sure we're not hiding another bug first
<tseliot> chrisccoulson: let's discuss it on another channel
<tkamppeter> seb128, rodrigo_ we should create a Blueprint for gnome-3-print vs. system-config-printer second attempt.
<chrisccoulson> sure, np :)
<dpm> hey all. If I want a bug to be looked at for a default package with no maintainer, shall I just assign it to ubuntu-desktop?
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, seb128, how do we proceed with bug 874268 for Oneiric? Once I have stopped an SRU upload of s-c-p for it and second, the GNOME printer tool is not very usable currently. Especially it can even happen that it does not create a requested print queue and does not give any error message.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 874268 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer not reachable in menus of GNOME shell" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874268
<rodrigo_> mdeslaur, ping
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, it seems to work for simple scenarios, at least for me
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, it detects local printers, not much remote ones though
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, but I think it's because we're missing something, hence the 'firewalld ...' message it shows
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, it seems that upstream has based this warning on distro-specific package names. Do not know of which distro.
<rodrigo_> fedora for sure
<rodrigo_> although I think it's just service names, not package names
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, a possible SRU to get basic functionality of the GNOME3 tool working is to make it depend on the cups-pk-helper package, as normal users would never come to the idea that cups-pk-helpers is missing. And it seems to be a common case on updates from Natty that it is not installed, probably as we have somehow worked against its installation on Natty to assure that s-c-p works.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, we can't depend on it, as it0s not on the CD
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, I think we recommend it, let me check
<rodrigo_> no we don't
<seb128> rodrigo_, tkamppeter: bug #871985
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 871985 in gnome-control-center "The printing panel shouldn't display errors about firewalld not running" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871985
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, with this we could accept it for the gnome-shell users.
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, as an SRU comes to the user only through the internet, why has cups-pk-helper to be on the CD?
<rodrigo_> ah, if we can do that on an SRU, that'd be cool
<rodrigo_> can we really do it?
<tkamppeter> pitti, can we do an SRU on g-c-c to depend on cups-pk-helper so that the printing capplet works? cups-pk-helper is not on the CD, but SRUs come through the internet anyway.
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, asking the oracle ...
<rodrigo_> :)
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, seb128, finally got the confirmation message from the list, seems that a sys admin has given a kick to the server ... No I am subscribed.
<pitti> tkamppeter: no, because it's in universe
<pitti> it would become uninstallable
<pitti> tkamppeter, rodrigo_: do we really need it for unity?
<pitti> it seems easier/better to add it as a depends to gnome-shell?
<pitti> for an SRU, anyway
<tkamppeter> pitti, seb128, rodrigo_, how do we fix bug 874268 for Oneiric then? Wan
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 874268 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer not reachable in menus of GNOME shell" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874268
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, I thought we agreed yesterday to leave it open for a fix in P, right?
<pitti> tkamppeter: as I said, add the recommends to gnome-shell?
<pitti> rodrigo_: ^
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, OK, so if users complain I simply tell them personally to start system-config-printer on the command line.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, yes, not sure what else we can do, apart from fixing the issues in the printers panel
<rodrigo_> seb128, pitti: for SRU's, again need a reminder, so we file a SRU bug (if there's none), subscribe ubuntu-sru to it, and upload the package to the queue, right?
<pitti> rodrigo_: yes; please use the actual bug, don't create a synthetic "SRU" bug
<rodrigo_> pitti, for g-s-d I've created a SRU bug, since there was none
<rodrigo_> pitti, should I close that one?
<pitti> rodrigo_, tkamppeter: if we only need cups-pk-helper under shell, then let's add the dep there
<pitti> rodrigo_: that's fine
<rodrigo_> ok
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, that sounds better
<rodrigo_> bug 877326
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877326 in gnome-settings-daemon "SRU: Update to 3.2.1 upstream release" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877326
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, will you do the rest then? Thanks.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, I don't have permissions for universe upload, do you?
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, yes. So e-mail me what I should sponsor.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, just add cups-pk-helper to Depends in gnome-shell's debian/control
<tkamppeter> pitti, so the next s-c-p SRU does nopt need a part for gnome-shell, so I will re-upload the SRU which you have rejected on Friday. Please accept it.
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, OK.
<pitti> tkamppeter: ok
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, and tell me the bug number(s) to mention in debian/changelog.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, we don't have 1 for this already, AFAIK
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, than open one now, otherwise I cannot continue. Ubuntu SRU managers need to know to which bug an upload belongs.
<tkamppeter> pitti, s-c-p SRU re-uploaded.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, can't you open it yourself?
<tkamppeter> rodrigo_, OK, no problem, will do so.
<rodrigo_> tkamppeter, ok, thanks
<rodrigo_> I'm going to look at the firewalld thing, maybe we can easily fix it
<seb128> rodrigo_, upstream said he was going to look on it
<seb128> rodrigo_, see the bugzilla corresponding to the bug I pointed befor
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, but for 3.3, right?
<seb128> well, we can probably cherry pick the fix once he got it
<rodrigo_> I am trying to fix it to use other thing, instead of fedora's firewalld dbus service
<seb128> rodrigo_, let's try to get the g-c-c sru out, the locale segfault issue sorted and the proxy bugs looked at first please, those concern the default install and most our users
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, we can deal with people using the non default tools later
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> pitti, oh, it's meeting day, good catch ;-)
<seb128> I zapped that completly this week
<pitti> and it's lunch time, bbl
<seb128> just back from lunch there
<seb128> pitti, enjoy
<jbicha> good morning/afternoon
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, one thing which sucks about having a SSD is not having enough space
<chrisccoulson> i struggled with my old laptop, and i struggle even more with this one
<chrisccoulson> i really don't want to have to delete my fully build mozilla-central checkout
<chrisccoulson> **fully built
<didrocks> good morning jbicha
<seb128> hey jbicha, how are you?
<cyphermox> good mornin
<mdeslaur> rodrigo_: yes?
<jjardon> mpt: hey, about https://code.launchpad.net/~jjardon/indicator-datetime/fix-833337/+merge/79332 ,  I didnt get any message
<mpt> jjardon, ok, I just sent it again
<mpt> (@gnome.org)
<rodrigo_> mdeslaur, nothing now, was going to ask you to make sure the 49_fix_suspend_media_key.patch patch in g-s-d could be removed
<rodrigo_> mdeslaur, it looked a bit different from the upstream fix, but I've double checked and it can be removed, it's the same fix
<mdeslaur> rodrigo_: yes, I saw a similar patch commited in git
<rodrigo_> ok then, just wanted to triple check with you
<mdeslaur> rodrigo_: cool, thanks
<jjardon> mpt: thanks!
<rodrigo_> hmm, what's the command for adding a new locale? I don't remember...
<rodrigo_> ah, locale-gen!
<tkamppeter> pitti, reuploaded s-c-p after rebuild. From the first upload only white noise was left over.
<xclaesse> is it just me or oneirici's grub now has debian theme instead of ubuntu's ?
<seb128> xclaesse, grub or grub2? we use grub2 for a while and it doesn't have debian theming that I can see
<seb128> but maybe you have a local config for theming or something
<xclaesse> seb128, grub2 yes
<xclaesse> seb128, did not config anything
<xclaesse> seb128, I've just installed a new computer
<seb128> where do you see some debian theming?
<xclaesse> installed nvidia-current and gnome-desktop-environement as extra stuff
<xclaesse> that's it
<xclaesse> seb128, I reboot and the grub menu is showing debian logo
<seb128> grub shouldn't display if you don't press a key to start
<xclaesse> seb128, there is windows installed, so it is displayed by default ;)
<seb128> grub there on my test box which has a fresh oneiric has no image
<seb128> it's only text
<seb128> dunno
<seb128> cjwatson, ^ do you know what could lead grub to have a debian logo on Ubuntu?
<xclaesse> got that since a few weeks on my laptop but didn't say anything because I've lots of stuff hacked there... but now that I see that on fresh install, clearly an ubuntu bug ;)
<xclaesse> seb128, I think it appear if you regenerate your initd stuff
<xclaesse> as when you install new kernel
<xclaesse> because it did that for nvidia driver
<seb128> could be that you got some debian artwork package pulled in or something
<xclaesse> s/initd/initrd or whatever is those stuff called/
<seb128> but I don't know, maybe cjwatson can help you there when he's around
<xclaesse> seb128, ok... I don't care myself, just letting you know
<xclaesse> not the best branding....
<seb128> ok
<seb128> yeah, I just can't confirm ;-) and we would have notice, my bet is that something pulled in some debian artwork package when you installed GNOME
<seb128> but I'm not sure
<xclaesse> seb128, yep probably, since gnome-shell desktop is not tested anymore by you guys
 * Sweetshark just realizes its a few days into the release and nobody is missing libreoffice-mono at all.
<Sweetshark> good sign.
<chrisccoulson> libreoffice-what? ;)
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<jjardon> mpt: new proposed branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~jjardon/indicator-datetime/fix_833337/+merge/79679
<mpt> jjardon, thank you :-)
<mpt> jjardon, removing the "DBUSMENU_MENUITEM_PROP_ENABLED, TRUE" means they no longer behave as radio items?
<tkamppeter> pitti, rodrigo_ seb128, SRU for gnome-shell to require cups-pk-helper uploaded, bug 877367.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877367 in gnome-shell "[SRU Oneiric] gnome-shell users get GNOME3's new printer setup tool by default and this tool needs cups-pk-helper" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877367
<pitti> tkamppeter: thanks
<jjardon> mpt: DBUSMENU_MENUITEM_PROP_ENABLED represent whether the menuitem is clickable or not
<jjardon> mpt: you mean TIMEZONE_MENUITEM_PROP_RADIO ?
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you approve the SRU for s-c-p, it is up again now, bug 872991.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 872991 in system-config-printer "printer Hp 1320 needs Generic PCL 5e driver to work properly" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872991
<mpt> jjardon, ah, right. That's what I was looking for.
<jjardon> mpt: but yes, there is not radio menu items any more
<mpt> jjardon, good
<CarlFK> alt installer, I run su juser -c "gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.screensaver idle-activation-enabled false",
<CarlFK> boot system, juser@kasp:~$ gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.screensaver idle-activation-enabled; see true
<CarlFK> I am back in the installer now, log shows
<CarlFK>  Command line `dbus-launch --autolaunch=23ebe9869679dfd4566f95c5000004f5 --binary-syntax --close-stderr' exited with non-zero exit status 1: Autolaunch error: X11 initialization failed.\n
<seb128> CarlFK, seems the dbus-launch doesn't work for some reason
<mvo> chrisccoulson: hi, I have a vague memory that you know about the screensaver ;) so I wonder why gnome-screensaver does not seems to honor XResetScreenSaver() ?or should it?
<chrisccoulson> mvo - hmm, i think it's more than gnome-screensaver involved there
<chrisccoulson> what's the context?
<mvo> chrisccoulson: I want to poke the screensaver during a release upgrade in a reliable way
<mvo> chrisccoulson: and also without having to write different code for gnome/kde/xscreensaver
<mvo> chrisccoulson: but it appears (from my tests) that gnome-screensaver does not honor the XResetScreensaver call
<chrisccoulson> does XResetScreensaver reset the idletime counter in the xserver?
<tjaalton> mvo, tkamppeter: so it is cupsd causing the d-bus problems here. for instance, every time I do a show/unshow cycle of the finished jobs on system-config-printer I get a new dbus connection by cupsd
<tjader> Hello. gnome-terminal seems to be grabbing my mouse focus sometimes since I updated to 11.10
<tjader> The pointer moves, but clicks don't work and windows don't receive mouse movement events. Killing gnome-terminal makes it start working again
<tjaalton> tkamppeter, mvo: seems to be related to avahi
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: every time I get a "Avahi client state: 1" in the error_log, a new dbus connection is created
<Laney> cyphermox: seen http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2011/10/msg00432.html ?
<Laney> hah
 * Laney spots -devel
<Laney> soz
<cyphermox> Laney: aye
<cyphermox> :)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: well, I have not looked at the code, but I think that is what its supposed to do
<rodrigo_> bug 861158
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 861158 in banshee "After reverting to "no proxy" /system/http_proxy/use_http_proxy in gconf stays activated. i" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861158
<rodrigo_> can someone please sponsor https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/861158 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 861158 in banshee "After reverting to "no proxy" /system/http_proxy/use_http_proxy in gconf stays activated. i" [Low,Confirmed]
<rodrigo_> I don't have permissions for banshee upload
<chrisccoulson> mvo - i'll try and figure out how this is meant to work after i've had some lunch
<chrisccoulson> we have a distro-patch for gnome-screensaver to let you poke the screensaver, which uses XResetScreensaver, and that worked at some point
<mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, great, I would really like to have a single way of doing it that works for all x11/kde/gnome if possible
<chrisccoulson> i'm not sure if it does now though
<rodrigo_> brb
<mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, I dig some more while you have lunch! enjoy
<mvo> chrisccoulson: for when you are back, the patch is still there, but --poke is gnoe from the gnome-screensaver-command :/
<chrisccoulson> mvo - oh, that's not good :(
<mpt> mvo, hi. Is there a page other than <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpgradeTestingProcess> (last updated in 2008!) describing who does the testing, and what kind of testing, of upgrades from one release to the next?
<chrisccoulson> mvo - ah, it seems like nothing uses that directly. xdg-screensaver uses the SimulateUserActivity dbus method directly
<mpt> http://qa.ubuntu.com/testing/ doesn't mention upgrades in particular
<mvo> mpt: I don't know of anything else, no
<mvo> chrisccoulson: thanks, I try xdg-screensaver now
 * mpt finds ubuntu.com/testing inviting him to test Ubuntu 11.10 alpha 1
<seb128> pitti, do we need gamin in main still btw?
<pitti> seb128: gnome-vfs
<seb128> we should just build gnome-vfs without it and demote it
<pitti> seb128: oh, we can?
<seb128> who is using gnome-vfs for filemonitor on nfs?
<pitti> seb128: I'm currently committing our remaining changes to Debian
<dobey> who is still using gnome-vfs?
<pitti> seb128: nothing; if we can get rid of this beast, so much the better
<pitti> dobey: libreoffice
<dobey> eww
<dobey> just demote libreoffice too :)
<pitti> seb128: anyway, I'm about to do a new debian upload and sync
<dobey> abiword has a gtk3 port coming soon ;)
<seb128> pitti, AC_ARG_ENABLE(fam, [  --disable-fam          build without enabling fam for file system monitoring],
<pitti> yay -- away with it!
<seb128> ;-)
<pedro_> omg i've read gaim instead of gamin
<pitti> Sweetshark: is there any chance that LibO will move away from gnome-vfs?
 * pedro_ feels old
<pitti> pedro_: which of the two makes you feel less old?
 * pitti blows off the dust from both and coughs heavily
<seb128> pedro_, hola! ;-)
<Sweetshark> pitti: seb128 asked that before.
<pedro_> pitti, lol
<Sweetshark> pitti: I really gotta check if anyone has that on the agenda ..
<seb128> pitti, Sweetshark said it was up to you to raise the priority of that workitem or to give him extra resources ;-)
<pedro_> seb128, hey! how are you? did you noticed the 'Precise' report ?
<pitti> Sweetshark: extra resources> beer? icecream? disabling filing LP bugs for libo?
<pitti> all that can be arranged :)
<seb128> pedro_, no, let me check ;-)
<seb128> pedro_, oh, nice, and you fixed the Oneiric one as well!
 * pitti writes a script to close all LP bugs as "This software has been out there for two years, it can't have bugs any more. This is obviously an user error"
<dobey> seb128, pitti: what's the plan for banshee/tomboy/mono on CD? :)
<pedro_> icecream with beer flavor ?
<seb128> dobey, no plan
<Sweetshark> pitti: I take the last choice then.
<pitti> dobey: need GTK3 U1
<dobey> seb128: "hope they get ported asap" ?
<pitti> I'd love to go back to RB, but presumably not for LTS
<seb128> dobey, "don't care if they get ported asap"
<seb128> we will neither get gconf out of the CD nor gtk2 for the LTS
<pitti> seb128: *meep* webkit-gtk2
<pitti> this one really sucks space-wise
<seb128> yeah, don't tell me
<dobey> ugh
<seb128> dunno what the banshee guys plan for next cycle
<dobey> pitti: should we have a "go back to rbox" session at uds? ;)
<seb128> we still don't have gtk3 mono binding, I'm not confident landing those and a port of banshee in the LTS cycle is a good idea
<pitti> dobey: I think we'll have the traditional "default apps" session anyway
<pitti> seb128: yes, agreed; but did I mention how nice RB works? :-)
<pitti> SCNR
 * pitti hugs seb128 and dobey
<dobey> RB works great
<dobey> it even doesn't have insane options in it, and lets you have multiple libraries! :)
 * seb128 hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti, I still have only rb installed
<pitti> yes, me too
<seb128> but rb didn't get any tarball since january
<seb128> we live on git snapshots
<dobey> i only have banshee installed because i have to for testing/hacking u1 stuff :(
<seb128> the bugs we got since oneiric also show the current version is quite buggy
<didrocks> seb128: pitti: banshee is almost gtk3 ready
<didrocks> seb128: pitti that's what Bertrand told me at the desktop summit
<dobey> didrocks: it's been almost ready for 6 months
<didrocks> but he reimplemented a lot of custom widgets
<didrocks> dobey: not true
<dobey> didrocks: wasn't that summit in july?
<chrisccoulson> nothing i maintain will be pulling in gtk2 or gconf in the LTS ;)
<didrocks> dobey: indeed, end of july, and the work in a testing branch
<didrocks> dobey: but I'm not a banshee supporter, you need to read ubuntu-desktop ML about my thought on media player :-)
<dobey> didrocks: right, so that's 3 months already. if it was "almost ready" 3 months ago, it should be done already, but it's not :)
<didrocks> I think that for LTS anyway, no move on that is wiser
<dobey> xmcd ftw
<didrocks> dobey: well, not everyone has the chance to earn money from FLOSS :-)
 * didrocks still prays his xmcd + totem
<dobey> let's switch to windowmaker too
<didrocks> dobey: wasn't what unity was for? just moving the launcher side? :p
<seb128> chrisccoulson, firefox on gtk3?!
<dobey> hehe
<pitti> nah, let's use https://one.ubuntu.com/services/music/
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, mozilla-central builds against gtk3
<chrisccoulson> not sure of the quality just yet
<pitti> chrisccoulson: \o/
<seb128> \o/
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, it builds, ship it! :-)
<rodrigo_> dobey, yes, the launcher in unity is like windowmaker, so you're set :D
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i'm not sure the guys at mozilla feel quite the same ;)
<dobey> rodrigo_: make it embed wmcd then we can talk
<chrisccoulson> i'm sure they'd like it to work properly before we ship it
<didrocks> come on :-)
<rodrigo_> dobey, :D
<seb128> 20 updates in the sru unapproved queue
<seb128> it's a crazy sru week ;-)
<dobey> chrisccoulson: for very loosely and internally defined "properly" ? :)
<dobey> oh sru
<dobey> pitti: btw, can you also sync the ubuntuone-client from natty-proposed to natty-updates, as the bug is verification-done? :)
<pitti> seb128: and I just spent two hours on it this morning, where we had some 30 :)
<pitti> dobey: 6 days, almost there :) will do in my tomorrow morning's SRU shift
<rodrigo_> btw, just remembered someone (was it cjwatson?) suggested to change the ubuntu release cycle, to feature-based instead of 6 months
<pitti> seb128: gnome-vfs un-fam-ized
 * pitti demotes
<rodrigo_> is there any session at UDS about it?
<seb128> pitti, \o/
<dobey> pitti: ok, thanks!
<pitti> rather, let's demote it a little later when gamin has built, otherwise LP gets confused
<seb128> rodrigo_, it was rather Keybuk's blog you read?
<dobey> rodrigo_: if we did that, we'd never have a release
<rodrigo_> seb128, don't remember who was it
<seb128> rodrigo_, not sure, I guess we will have a session about schedules, I doubt we will do any such change for the LTS though
<rodrigo_> dobey, :)
<pitti> bbl, supermarket
<dobey> rodrigo_: actually, what i'm trying to get our (u1) team to do this cycle, might be the best route for everyone. but we'll try it in u1 first :)
<rodrigo_> dobey, and it is?
<dobey> but i expect it will be totally awesome, because i am usually right. :)
<rodrigo_> what is it, I mean :)
<dobey> rodrigo_: we're going to make stable branches at the start, and only do feature development in trunk, and only backport to the stable branches when features are complete, working, and well tested
<rodrigo_> ah, like it
<dobey> so we can always have feature development work happening in trunk
<dobey> and always have stable code in releases
<dobey> and we'll have the beta PPA build automatically from the stable branches, with nightlies building from trunk
<seb128> dobey, well, other Canonical should be doing the same thing next cycle
<seb128> that's the new way to deal with quality ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, you win, I f**** hate evo now, it looks nicer but it keeps hanging and I've to --force-shutdown it every time that happens, tb might be less efficient and nice looking but at least it works :-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, I think I'm done with the proxy bugs (2 are ubuntu-system-service, the banshee one I filed a patch for, and a firefox one which is being worked on by the mozilla guys)
<rodrigo_> seb128, so, did I miss any?
<seb128> rodrigo_, not that I know about, thanks
<rodrigo_> ok, uploading then g-c-c
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you just reassign the ubuntu-system-service ones? can you let mvo know about the numbers maybe? not sure how much he keeps up with emails from launchpad
<seb128> rodrigo_, firefox is being worked by chrisccoulson yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<rodrigo_> mvo, bug 877254 and bug 877088 do you want me to assign them to you?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877254 in ubuntu-system-service "Network proxy settings does not keep "DIRECT" value in apt.conf when set back to method "None"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877254
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877088 in ubuntu-system-service "Network proxy setting does not set apt.conf from the second time" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877088
<desrt> RAOF: get your help with something?
<mvo> chrisccoulson: so from what I can tell xdg-screensaver reset is working fine for my needs, thanks
<mvo> rodrigo_: thanks, I'm currently drowning in work, if you could help out with the issues, that would be great, otherwise I will try to get to it at some point
<rodrigo_> mvo, ok, I'll have a look
<seb128> desrt, hey
<seb128> desrt, it's 2am in .au, probably not the best time to catch him
<desrt> seb128: thanks :)
 * desrt didn't know he was upside-down
<seb128> ;-)
<desrt> seb128: fwiw, glib 2.31.0 is looking pretty good
<seb128> desrt, but let your question, he will reply later or maybe you are lucky and somebody else knows
<seb128> desrt, \o/
<desrt> both rico and i have been running it for some time now
<desrt> with only one problem spotted by rico
<desrt> (gstreamer lockup issue)
<desrt> we'll track that down, i'm sure
<seb128> desrt, reading those discussion about gstreamer issues didn't increase my confidence in it ;-)
<desrt> but no mass-breakage or anything
<desrt> RAOF: i want a way for X to tell me when a keyboard grab has occured that would prevent me from having my own passive grabs realised
<desrt> RAOF: know of anything and/or could we add it with an extension of some kind?
<desrt> seb128: we have one really excessively annoying issue left to fix before i can drop the tarball
<desrt> which is hopefully later tonight
<desrt> is p open yet?
<chrisccoulson> mvo, oh, that's good then :)
<seb128> desrt, yes
<pitti> *yummy* ice cream *munch* *munch*
<desrt> fun times...
<desrt> pitti: weird!
<desrt> the french and the germans agreeing on something?
<pitti> on ice cream? I think we can settle on that
<didrocks> well, we agreed on greece :)
<desrt> didrocks: that wasn't exactly easy :)
<didrocks> right
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting reminder in 14 mins
<seb128> pitti, ice cream ;-)
 * desrt finds it slightly amusing that seb and didrocks were on that list
<pitti> it got warm once again (16 degrees), so last chance :) (our Italian cafe closes down for the winter on Friday)
<desrt> :(
<didrocks> 16 degrees, warm?
<seb128> pitti, you have a laptop with a touchpad enable,disable key right?
<pitti> seb128: yes
<didrocks> I think we will start disagreeing :)
<pitti> didrocks: better than the -4 we had at night
<seb128> pitti, does it work? does the notify-osd bubble has an icon?
<didrocks> pitti: relatively speaking, indeed :)
<pitti> seb128: it's been a while since I tried it
<pitti> seb128: I remember that it acted weirdly on the sprint -- it disabled (with bubble), but never re-enabled
<seb128> pitti, could you try it next time you have a chance? my dell laptop doesn' have one
<seb128> pitti, yeah, that bug got fixes
<seb128> got fixed
<seb128> we got a bug about that though: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/83099797/Screenshot%20at%202011-10-18%2017%3A35%3A27.png
<pitti> but if I open the lid now, xrandr will mess up everything, I'm sure
<seb128> i.e empty bubble
<didrocks> so gedit breaking libpeas
<seb128> well, libpeas is broken
<seb128> pygobject is buggy
<seb128> mterry upstream a bit that leads the snippet code to segfault gedit this week
<seb128> so the doesn't work at all might be an improvement :p
<seb128> out of the fact that mdeslaur uses it :p
<didrocks> seb128: ah ok, so not really a "regression"
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> so why assigning?
<mdeslaur> seb128, didrocks: hey, c'mon, it worked fine
<seb128> mdeslaur, bug #863773
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 863773 in pygobject "gedit crashed with SIGSEGV in __memcpy_ssse3() (when using snippet)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/863773
 * didrocks is puzzled, did it worked or not with this snippet? :)
<seb128> mdeslaur, not what that bug says
<mdeslaur> seb128: well, besides that _bug_
<mdeslaur> seb128: which you don't hit unless you drag and drop stuff
<seb128> didrocks, sorry I was unclear, it worked but had issues leading to segfault with some actions like dnd
<seb128> so the bug is new
<seb128> I'm wondering if we should just drop snippet...
<didrocks> hum, so previous behavior was "better"
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> not good, but betterâ¦
<mdeslaur> seb128: I will have to kill you if you do that. Just saying.
<didrocks> I can probably revert ehc ommit
<didrocks> the commit*
<seb128> didrocks, check with pitti maybe if that's not a pygobject bug
<seb128> wouldn't be the first one
<seb128> didrocks, the "assignee" was because you did the upload, sorry half of the people there never get bug mails if you don't assign thing to them so I got used to use assignee as a "read that and unassign if you want once you have read it" ;-)
<didrocks> pitti: if you have time: bug #877397, TextIter isn't supported?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877397 in gedit "gedit in -proposed breaks snippets plugin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877397
<didrocks> seb128: you can subscribe me, I have effective filters! :)
<didrocks> even this one should go in "general" if you don't subscribe me I guess
<seb128> yeah, that's right
<pitti> didrocks: queueing (will probably look tomorrow, as I'll call it a day after meeting)
<didrocks> pitti: sure, there is no hurry I guess
<didrocks> interesting
<didrocks> foo = Gtk.TextIter() works
<didrocks> bar = GObject.property(type=Gtk.TextIter doesn't
<pitti> didrocks: TextIter is meant to work, yes
<pitti> ther's even an override for it
<pitti> and a test
<didrocks> pitti: seems that if you try to instantiate it through GObject, what libpeas is doing, it doesn't
<didrocks> pitti: I'll paste that to the bug
<didrocks> other instantiation like bar = GObject.property(type=Gtk.Box) works though, specific to Gtk.Iter it seems then
<pitti> jasoncwarner, Sweetshark, bryceh, chrisccoulson, didrocks, tremolux, Riddell, kenvandine, cyphermox, mterry, rodrigo_, seb128, tkamppeter, pedro_: meeting now
 * pedro_ waves
<chrisccoulson> w00t
<tremolux> hey everyone!
<pitti> welcome to the first-ever precise meeting :)
<seb128> hey ;-)
<rodrigo_> hi
<pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2011-10-18
 * bcurtiswx as a guest
 * kenvandine waves
<didrocks> hey
<kenvandine> woot, precise!
<mterry> w00t
<chrisccoulson> and i managed my first precise uploads today :)
<pitti> but I suppose most of us will still stay on oneiric for preparing and verifying SRUs
 * Sweetshark waves
<pitti> precise opened up exceptionally fast, but it's still very rough
<pitti> I must admit I haven't looked into UDS planning yet, jasoncwarner_ did most of it so far
<pitti> so, anything on the agenda from anyone for today?
<pitti> (I think didrocks had a topic)
<kenvandine> one thing for partner update
<jasoncwarner_> pitti: re: UDS. I'm off this week, but I'm entering the blueprints todayish. If anyone else has some, go ahead and put them in and target them...
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: want me to do anything particular there? scheduling, accepting, reviewing, etc.?
<jasoncwarner_> pitti: once I have them in, reviewing and accepting would be appreciated (re: keeping me honest ;))
<pitti> jasoncwarner_: ack, sounds great; and thanks for preparing them
<Sweetshark> jasoncwarner_: did you see the LO/OOo topic proposed to Jono?
<jasoncwarner_> Sweetshark: yeah, would you be happy to put that in and target to precise uds?
<didrocks> pitti: On my side, I don't have a topic agenda particularly, still waiting for design to move their bugs to new process, but for those interested, they can hCave a look there: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/design/. I'll present that at UDS to the team in an informal way I guess. The idea is to have a better view of what should be done in our upstream, what's should be done us, as a
<didrocks> downstream and what would land soon in ubuntu from a design perspective.
<kenvandine> didrocks, awesome!
<pitti> nice!
<didrocks> (you can click on title to expand/reduce view and can triage by column title if you didn't notice)
<didrocks> (and it has an extensive test suite against launchpad staging so we should be good for tweaking it safely)
<pitti> ok, AOB?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> U1 has discontinued support for bookmark sync (bindwood).  in 11.10 it still works as good as it has and the package will be removed for 12.04
<chrisccoulson> ah, about that
<rodrigo_> kenvandine, cool, it never worked afair
<kenvandine> rodrigo_, right :)
<chrisccoulson> i'm also going to be shipping an empty bindwood package with the next firefox update
<pitti> kenvandine: what do we do on upgrades there? can we introduce a Breaks: somewhere to remove the package?
<chrisccoulson> (for natty and oneiric)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: err, for stables?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yes
<pitti> "works as good as ever" didn't sound like "completely broken"
<chrisccoulson> pitti - if nobody is working on it anymore, then it's likely to break quite quickly
<chrisccoulson> (ie, break firefox)
<chrisccoulson> so i want to remove it entirely really
<pitti> yes, fine for precise, but breaking stable?
<kenvandine> pitti, well the service would still accept the sync technically
<pitti> why did U1 stop supporting it?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, it needs updating for every firefox release anyway
<kenvandine> but it just never worked well for many people
<glatzor> hello mvo, I just moved the development of the pk compat thingy to the lp:~aptdaemon-developers/aptdaemon/pkcompat2 branch and deleted the previous one (pkcompat), since the threading seems to be harder to implement than the PK compat layer and the threading branch was already merged in the pkcompat branch :)
<kenvandine> pitti, quality reasons
<chrisccoulson> and i'm not sure the U1 guys are going to be spending efforts on maintaining something for a service which isn't provided anymore
<kenvandine> http://voices.canonical.com/ubuntuone/?p=1282
<mvo> glatzor: thanks!
<kenvandine> the problem wasn't really the firefox extension
<chrisccoulson> but that's a problem if nobody is looking after it :)
<kenvandine> indeed
<chrisccoulson> pitti - do you see a problem with that?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, I do, but we aren't going to solve that here and now :)
<pitti> so, thanks for the heads-up
<chrisccoulson> pitti - there are a couple of problems with leaving things the way they are:
<chrisccoulson> 1) the addon will be marked incompatible with firefox in the next release anyway, which is likely to result in confusion and bug reports
<pitti> chrisccoulson: right, under the assumption that we stop support for it, an empty package is fine
<pitti> chrisccoulson: my problem is with stopping supporting stable releases where we have committed to having these packages in main, have a paid team for it, etc.
<kenvandine> it is in universe
<chrisccoulson> 2) for people running the addon compatibility reporter, it won't be marked incompatible, which means it may start to break firefox in strange ways in the future, if we don't have anyone actively maintaining it
<ricotz> hello, is this a known debhelper problem "dpkg-shlibdeps: error: package. is not a valid version"?
<pitti> kenvandine: ah, ok; then I don't have a problem with it :)
<kenvandine> :-D
<glatzor> mvo, but I will merge it into trunk soon :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, I thought it was a supported service, nevermind me
<kenvandine> the quality was never good enough for us to put in main :)
<chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, ok. thanks
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> ricotz, hey, try asking on #ubuntu-devel
<chrisccoulson> so, the plan is still to ship empty packages with the next firefox update to force its removal
<seb128> ricotz, we are in a meeting (almost over, but still the question is not really desktopish)
<chrisccoulson> unless anyone else sees a problem :)
<ricotz> (seb128, oh, sorry)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, wfm
<seb128> ricotz, no worry
<pitti> kenvandine: ok, thanks
<pitti> back to AOB?
<pitti> seems not
<pitti> then thanks everyone!
<seb128> thanks pitti
<mterry> yay precise
<didrocks> thanks everyone
<seb128> oh, a mterry
<seb128> mterry, hey, do you feel better?
<mterry> seb128, yeah, sleeping forever does wonders
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> mterry, do you plan to SRU deja-dup 20.1 btw?
<mvo> glatzor: I keep an eye on it .) I also meant to work on the systemwide license key code this week, but so far it did not work out :(
<mterry> seb128, yeah probs.  Nothing super important it fixes, but I know the French forums would be mad if I didn't fix that translation issue.  :)
<seb128> mterry, yeah, you know how it goes with users ;-)
<didrocks> mterry: I didn't see hate messages on that if you can feel better about it :)
<didrocks> as long as it doesn't break with french locale, people are tolerant :)
<mterry> didrocks, well, some strings show as english still, despite full french translation, so I figured they'd be miffed
<seb128> didrocks, well, I wrote a hate message for one, it's in launchpad, though mterry closed it as fixed it seems
<didrocks> seb128: seems mterry is taking french people for people who only care about their language and doesn't speak proper english. How rude is this? :p
<seb128> but he lied, I still see the bug :p
<didrocks> (even if true :p)
<mterry> seb128, run precise then!
<seb128> didrocks, the "next backup" dates are in english the the control center
<didrocks> yeah, can be annoying, people not making the difference between 11/07 and 07/11
<mterry> didrocks, that shouldn't matter, will always be X number of days
<didrocks> oh?
<seb128> didrocks, well it's relative time, like next backup "in 2 days"
<mterry> didrocks, for that particular string, yeah
<didrocks> mterry: ok, I'll run a backup this evening while doing my excercise then!
<seb128> didrocks, well, no need to run one, open g-c-c backup and look at the 2 bottom strings
<mterry> didrocks, you mean, you haven't been testing DD all oneiric cycle?!
<seb128> the "most recent backup" and "next backup"
<rodrigo_> bbiab
<didrocks> mterry: ahem, my gf did, but she's on lucid :-)
<didrocks> and it was the "I should backup, really should"
<seb128> :-)
<didrocks> you know how it goes :)
<mterry> didrocks, guh, lucid DD's interface is the pits
<seb128> I should put my backups somewhere else that in my user dir
<didrocks> mterry: she can still use it without any help!
<seb128> I've feeling it's not the most useful location to put them ;-)
<mterry> didrocks, well, she's a genius  :)
<didrocks> seb128: ahah, you mean, you are backuping on the same dir? :)
<didrocks> disk*
<mterry> seb128, yah :)  you have U1 space, eh?
<seb128> yeah, I was testing deja-dup mostly
<seb128> but I could as well make useful backups from it ;-)
 * didrocks will backup on his server, /home/data/partageNFS/volatile which is the non RAID0/1 partition
<seb128> mterry, I have but I've a quite slow uplink so I tend to no like to upload backups on the internet
<pitti> seb128: do you have so many changes every day?
<pitti> I only have a slow uplink as well, but once you are through the initial hump, the daily diff is barely noticeable
<mterry> pitti, well, DD likes to make full backups every now and then too
<pitti> ah, ok;;
<mterry> for safety's sake
<pitti> rsnapshot doesn't
<mterry> pitti, I also do it for technical reasons to be able to delete older backup chains
<DBO> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/lge2i/coming_to_uds_like_video_games_come_play_with_us/
<DBO> for all your desktop team members
<DBO> be ready to be fragged
<pitti> but yes, syncing my music collection to U1 took a whole 10 days or so :)
<pitti> DBO: ooh, nice!
<pitti> I think the last time I played network Quake II was in school, around 1997
<mterry> DBO, hmm...  may have to bring my beefy laptop then
<pitti> so I'm sure I'll suck
<pitti> but it'll be fun either way
<DBO> no problem
<seb128> pitti, well to be honest I didn't try to deja-dup to u1 from my main machine, it might be smart enough to not upload a lot
<DBO> mterry, yes you shall
<DBO> I am
<seb128> I'm sure those game will hate my intel card :p
<mterry> DBO, that laptop has a habit of overheating.  May have to bring a desk fan too.  ;)
<DBO> mterry, whatever it takes
<DBO> seb128, Diablo II will be fine
<DBO> TF2 should be fine
<seb128> great
<DBO> on lowest settings
<DBO> we did think about this a little bit :)
<seb128> btw did the "unity drops gl games frame by half" got fixed?
<seb128> didrocks mentioned that was an issue recently
<didrocks> it's not fixed FYI
<DBO> salt into the wound...
<pitti> DBO: do we need to buy these games before, or is there a demo version which is enough for net playing?
<seb128> DBO, we just want to assure a good gaming experience to be able to kick your ass at UDS ;-)
<pitti> yes, and need to practice a little :)
<DBO> pitti, you'll need to buy
<pitti> when we are there it's not the best time to learn all the keys etc.
<DBO> seb128, install windows :P
<pitti> DBO: will do then
<pitti> DBO: thanks!
<DBO> I cant believe how many people are excited about this
<DBO> we thought it was going to be like 5 of us
<pitti> DBO: dude, it so much is! nobody here to LAN-game with me :)
<pitti> of course a few UDSes ago we used to play FB and tetrinet
<DBO> Im looking forward to this so much more than UDS
<DBO> frozen bubble != gaming
<pitti> objection!
<seb128> we need to add warcraft2 or starcraft to that list of games ;-)
<didrocks> if there is starcraft count me in
<didrocks> I have less than 2 weeks to get back to my level :-)
<DBO> adding
<DBO> 1 or 2?
<didrocks> one :)
<seb128> 1
<didrocks> I know that agateau is quite a descent starcraft player as well :)
<pitti> DBO: so which of these four games do you recommend for intel card and n00b skills? I don't know any of them
<kenvandine> i haven't played starcraft in ages!
<DBO> didrocks, done
<DBO> pitti, DII
<didrocks> DBO: great!
 * didrocks goes finding his CD
<agateau> didrocks: I have been playing starcraft a lot, but I am definitely not a decent player :)
<didrocks> agateau: :-)
<didrocks> agateau: does it works well in wine?
 * didrocks doesn't have any windows here
<DBO> didrocks, its like 1/3 of the reason wine exists
<agateau> didrocks: it works well in vbox
<CarlFK> seb128:  I am sshed into the installer, chroot /target,  # dbus-launch --autolaunch=23ebe9869679dfd4566f95c5000004f5; "Autolaunch error: X11 initialization failed."
<pitti> I'll try my luck with wine
<CarlFK> any idea how I can get more info about this?
<didrocks> ok, don't expect me uploading SRU tomorrow, I have work to do :-)
<DBO> pitti, I have done DII with Wine
<DBO> it works fine
<seb128> didrocks, lol
<seb128> I might just bring my win hdd with me
<seb128> I changed the disk shipped with my dell for a ssd one when I got it, but the original one as win installed with a valid license
<DBO> dont forget to upboat on reddit guys
<seb128> it might be better to play ;-)
<DBO> I want to get this on the frontpage of the ubuntu subreddit
<DBO> seb128, I have Win7 setup just for this
<DBO> mwaahhaha free windows software from my uni
<pitti> seb128: ah, I tried to reinstall win7, but it's such a pain to set up; no drivers at all, not even ethernet; so I gave up
<DBO> pitti, if you ahve a dual boot
<DBO> I downloaded the drivers in ubuntu
<pitti> DBO: I actually did that
<DBO> and then copied them to the NTFS partition
<seb128> pitti, well, I've the preinstalled disk, I guess it just needs activation
<pitti> but the wifi drivers still didn't work
<pitti> I also burned the rescue/reinstall DVD
<DBO> awesome
<pitti> but that didn't boot either
<pitti> DBO, didrocks, seb128: anyone up for descent 2 playing? :-)
 * pitti still has some rather good skills at that
<DBO> any game you want to play is fair grabs
<seb128> I never played that
<didrocks> pitti: will probably suck, but that will remind me some good old time :)
<didrocks> (I meant: *I* will probably suck ;))
 * pitti uploads dbus merge, and calls it a day
<pitti> see you tomorrow, good night!
<didrocks> see you tomorrow pitti!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> hum
<seb128> did xchat-gnome stopped doing notify-osd notifications for others as well?
<mdeslaur> seb128: works for me
<seb128> mdeslaur, hum, thanks
<didrocks> ok, time for some exercice there, see you tomorrow!
<seb128> 'night didrocks
<didrocks> thanks, you too seb128
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what infos can be useful for bugs where tb and the indicator counts disagree?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, like the indicator says I've an unread email in dx-assigned and one in unity-bugs, the unity launcher says 2 unread email, so far consistent, but tb itself has no unread email at all
<seb128> selecting the boxes doesn't update any of the counters
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, i've seen a few people with issues like that
<chrisccoulson> there's nothing in the error console?
<seb128> Error: ERROR edsintegration: Could not create a client of type addressbook from ESource.
<seb128> Source File: resource://edsintegration/AuthHelper.jsm
<seb128> Line: 149
<seb128> Error: ERROR edsintegration: Message was: Invalid source
<seb128> Source File: resource://edsintegration/AuthHelper.jsm
<seb128> Line: 150
<seb128>  
<seb128> those are the only "errors"
<chrisccoulson> yeah, those are unrelated
<seb128> warning has a bunch of
<seb128> Warning: WARN edsintegration: Could not resolve email type for an nsAbEDSEmailAddress - setting as OTHER.
<seb128> Source File: resource://edsintegration/nsAbEDSCard.jsm
<seb128> Line: 722
<seb128> that's it basically
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, ping
<rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
<kenvandine> hey... got a minute for a couple questions about your box that gwibber is sucking on?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, now isn't great for me
<kenvandine> ok
<rickspencer3> it's my mini 10v, btw
<kenvandine> mind pinging me when you have a few?
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, well, I have a couple of minutes
<rickspencer3> go ahead and ask
<kenvandine> it looks like networking problems, but i am also concerned that it isn't logging anymore
<kenvandine> how big is the log file?
<kenvandine> what you have of the log, has a bunch of connection timed out errors
<kenvandine> and on 9/27 you had DNS failures for twitter, facebook, and identi.ca... which is weird because the same time jasoncwarner_ had the same problem
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ok, i set up another mail account to see if i get any issues
<chrisccoulson> it might be easier to spot in an account with low traffic :)
<kenvandine> pycurl was failing to resolve the hostnames
<kenvandine> but it is resolving them now, just failing to connect to them
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well my account is not low traffic
<seb128> but yeah, for reading debug infos it's probably better ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is there any debug info I can get on mine when that happens?
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, and any chance you have a proxy set?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, but your folders seem to not contain much unread mail
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, no proxy
<chrisccoulson> whereas i have ~20000 unread mails ;)
<rickspencer3> and this happens all the time
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, I'm good at driving my unread to 0
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hint, you have a "mark folder as read" in the right click menu, it can be handy ;-)
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, have you double checked that there isn't?  i am wondering if maybe a gconf->gsettings conversion went bad
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i wonder if i should use that more often
<rickspencer3> isn't a proxy?
<kenvandine> isn't set...
<kenvandine> rickspencer3, it isn't likely the problem, just trying to rule that out
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, booting the computer
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> gconftool --get /system/http_proxy/use_http_proxy
<seb128> kenvandine, how come gwibber still use gconf? ;-)
<kenvandine> it doesn't
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> so why do you ask for gconf keys?
<kenvandine> i didn't did i?
<kenvandine> maybe i miss-typed :)
<seb128> kenvandine, oh ok, I misread you
<kenvandine> gwibber-service is getting network connection timeouts
<kenvandine> but can't see why..
<seb128> kenvandine, no, I'm twisted in the direction of all the "g-c-c updates gsettings but stuff still read the gconf key" issues we are getting
<kenvandine> :)
<seb128> kenvandine, so I just assimilated to one of those ;-)
<kenvandine> understandable :)
<kenvandine> i did somehow end up with a VM that was set to use a proxy when i am pretty certain i never configured
<kenvandine> but that broke lots of things
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I have 2 minutes
<rickspencer3> can you tell me specifically what you want me to look at?
<rickspencer3> l)
<kenvandine> ok, how big is that log file?
<rickspencer3> ;)
<rickspencer3> sorry, I was chatting with mdz :)
<kenvandine> ls -l ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
<rickspencer3> I miss that dude, he takes precedence over gwibber debugging :)
<kenvandine> and confirm the permissions too
<kenvandine> hehe
<kenvandine> indeed
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, if it help, I'll have this puter with me in FL
<kenvandine> certainly
<kenvandine> but if i can, i would like to figure it out before then :)
<kenvandine> i just got the first dupe for this
<rickspencer3> it's -rw-r--r--
<kenvandine> and owned by you right?
<rickspencer3> 3277130 for length
<rickspencer3> owned by me, yes
<kenvandine> ok
<kenvandine> thx...          that is all i have for now
<kenvandine> still at a loss
<kenvandine> no idea what would make it stop logging...
<kenvandine> it isn't even errors from the services... it is timeout errors connecting to anything
<kenvandine> from pycurl... wtf
<rickspencer3> kenvandine, I'll hand it over to you in FL ;)
<kenvandine> thx :)
<rickspencer3> just bring a 'puter and we can swap
<kenvandine> hope you like a portuguese keyboard :)
<seb128> rickspencer3 probably got used to a french keyboard by now
<rickspencer3> seb128, well, I use the US layout
<rickspencer3> I cheat
<seb128> that's cheating!
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ah, i think i just saw your problem in my inbox
<chrisccoulson> too bad i didn't have any extension logging switched on ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, "DOH"? ;-)
<seb128> try again :p
<pitti> tremolux: thanks for the tzdata updates, will sponsor them tomorrow morning (currently in a call, and actually I'm already off for today)
<pitti> tremolux: would you mind applying for PPU for tzdata? there should be very low entrance barrier
<pitti> tremolux: so tzdata has a new upstream now?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, do you delete mail from a folder before whilst it's still marked as read?
<tremolux> pitti: you're welcome, I've started my application for tzdata and software-center
<seb128> chrisccoulson, define "whilst it's still marked as read"?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, ie, before it's been marked unread
<dobey> maybe i should ask in here instead
<tremolux> pitti: yes, it's still in flux about tzdata, but folks have taken the reigns are and making sure updates keep happening
<dobey> are there any good docs for how to split gir1.2-foo packages from a single source?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, but I do lot of crazy things like selecting range of emails and delete those, sit on the delete key for a while, click on the "unread" green circle to mark things as read
<dobey> like, naming conventions and such
<seb128> chrisccoulson, or use space,delete to browse delete
<chrisccoulson> seb128, hah!
<chrisccoulson> i'm only looking for state changes on mails
<chrisccoulson> i'm not looking for mails being removed from a folder ;)
<seb128> oh ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i bet that's it
<chrisccoulson> pitti, mind rejecting thunderbird in proposed?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, btw another thing confusing is that if you filter a folder view in tb the count is cleared from the indicator
<dobey> ohh, nevermind
<tremolux> pitti: actually, ICANN is officially taking it over: http://www.icann.org/en/news/releases/release-14oct11-en.pdf
<pitti> tremolux: yeah, debian switched over debian/copyright and watch already
<seb128> dobey, gir are not different from other binaries
<dobey> debian package search has answered my question, in a not so useful way
<pitti> chrisccoulson: done
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<dobey> i wonder why debian stopped packaging the avahi gir
<seb128> dobey, they never packaged it
<dobey> seb128: yes they did
<dobey> seb128: in fact, it's still in sid for avr32 arch, as gir1.0-avahi-0.6
<seb128> dobey, no they didn't
<seb128> dobey, that came from gir-repository which was a static collection of all the girs
<seb128> dobey, which got dropped since because most libs build their gir now
<seb128> dobey, which avahi doesn't
<dobey> seb128: avahi does, in fact
<seb128> well, not the debian package
<dobey> seb128: but the ubuntu package doesn't depend on the thing necessary
<dobey> well sure
<seb128> dobey, http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gir-repository.html
<seb128> see the binaries on the left
<dobey> yeah, i see that
<pitti> so, good night everyone!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> dobey, so yeah, that's a valid request, avahi should build a gir
<dobey> seb128: yeah, i was just now making a fix for P for it
<dobey> seb128: but was wondering what to name the package
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> gir1.2-<name of the typelib>-<version number of the typelib>
<seb128> i.e Indicate-0.6.typelib -> gir1.2-indicate-0.6
<dobey> seb128: yeah, i know that much. but avahi's is AvahiCore
<dobey> seb128: so i wasn't sure if it should be avahicore or avahi, but looks like should probably use avahi
<seb128> dobey, no, the debian way is clear, it's the same name as the .typelib
<seb128> dobey, how is named the file on disk?
<dobey> seb128: AvahiCore-0.6.typelib/gir
<seb128> or
<seb128> so it's gir1.2-avahicore-0.6
<dobey> seb128: but the old package is gir1.0-avahi-0.6, so figured it should be similar
<seb128> dobey, no, the gir-repository was from before the time they had a convention for the naming
<dobey> ok
<dobey> seb128: and conflicts/replaces provides a sane upgrade path right?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> dobey, the old gir had 2 typelibs
<seb128> one AvahiCore.typelib and one Avahi.typelib
<dobey> hmm
<seb128> so the naming made sense if they decided to include both in the same binary
<dobey> wonder what Avahi was
<seb128> bah
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=655287
<ubot2> Gnome bug 655287 in general "Stop installing libgnome-control-center shared library" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> "Resolved: fixed"
<seb128> yet another change to revert :p
<dobey> heh
<dobey> "stop installing gnome3"
<dobey> ;)
<seb128> hehe
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, I've another tb "wtf", I just noticed why I missed some of the recent discussions on lists
<seb128> chrisccoulson, if you never opened a box it seems it will never display an unread count for it
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you do your filtering server-side don't you?
<seb128> like I've several mailing list on the canonical imap I never browsed in tb since I didn't get new mails
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yes
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well I'm using tb for 2 days, I'm lucky I started evo today
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, didrocks mentioned the same issue. basically, thunderbird lazily updates non-inbox folders by default
<chrisccoulson> and that isn't ideal for server filtering
<chrisccoulson> whereas i do local filtering, so i don't get the issue
<chrisccoulson> i wonder if there's really any value in doing the lazy updating of folders by default
<chrisccoulson> i guess i can talk to m_conley about that at UDS ;)
<dobey> it probably uses 3 GB less ram than not doing that
 * m_conley perks up
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well it's really broken, if I click the "receive" small arrow and pick "receive all new messages" it ought to do non lazy full checking
<chrisccoulson> hi m_conley
<m_conley> chrisccoulson: hey!
<seb128> or the title is misleading and should be "lazy check folders you already used" ;-)
<seb128> hey mchro
<seb128> ups
<seb128> mchro, sorry
<seb128> hey m_conley
<m_conley> Hey. :)
<m4n1sh> seb128: can you check the  ubuntu-desktop list moderation queue
<seb128> pedro_, ^
<m4n1sh> my 12.04 topic is still there
<seb128> m4n1sh, I forgot the password years ago, I'm not sure it's being moderated at all
<seb128> pedro_, do you still remember the moderation password for the desktop list? ;-)
<m4n1sh> anyone who can take a look at the moderation queue
<seb128> m4n1sh, pedro should be able to, good that you pinged because the list collects spam and I'm not sure how much moderation it get
<m4n1sh> yeah, just for making the task easier
<pedro_> seb128, m4n1sh, i guess so, let me check
<m4n1sh> just search for zeitgeist topic
<m4n1sh> topic is "Deeper Zeitgeist integration. Installation of datasources for default applications etc"
<pedro_> should be easier to subscribe to the list ? ;-)
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: out of interest is there a way to backup TB's setting like you can in EVO transferring a 1.7GB+ ~/.TB folder from one machine to another takes a while?
<m4n1sh> pedro_: I am subscribed
<m4n1sh> I do get mails
<m4n1sh> but post has got held
<pedro_> m4n1sh, done
<m4n1sh> pedro_: thanks a lot
<pedro_> you're welcome
<m4n1sh> pedro_: is the list moderated?
<m4n1sh> what reason did it say for my post getting held
<seb128> m4n1sh, did you send from the email which is subscribed?
<m4n1sh> yes
<m4n1sh> that is why I am suprised
<pedro_> m4n1sh, that's the reason
<pedro_> you did not
<pedro_> you're subscribed to the list with a @ubuntu.com
<m4n1sh> hmmm
<m4n1sh> now I understand
<pedro_> and you sent the email from your own domain
<m4n1sh> now i understand
<m4n1sh> @ubuntu one uses the inbox for the id from which i sent
<m4n1sh> anyway. Thanks
<pedro_> no problem
<dobey> oh bugger. the lp:ubuntu/avahi branch isn't up to date :-/
<seb128> dobey, open a bug
<dobey> seb128: against what exactly? avahi (Ubuntu)?
<seb128> dobey, no, product udd
<seb128> chrisccoulson, joke aside dunno if lot of people use server side filtering but is the "get all email" supposed to do lazy checking as well or is that a bug?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm not sure what that's meant to do
<chrisccoulson> but it sounds like a bug ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, one you are interested to pick up or one that will land in the launchpad void and is not worth filing?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'll have a look in a bit what the button does :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I should perhaps try client side filtering, but I guess even if tb is not crap that ought to be slow
<seb128> well at least slower than server side filtering :p
<dobey> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/877658
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877658 in udd "lp:ubuntu/avahi is out of date" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> dobey, thanks
<seb128> let's see if james_w picks it
<m_conley> mpt: ping
<CarlFK> https://live.gnome.org/dconf/SystemAdministrators says "dconf stores its profiles in text files in /etc/dconf/profile/".  but I don't see /etc/dconf on Natty or Oneiric.  did it get moved somewhere?
<seb128> CarlFK, what do you call "profiles"? it's not likely profiles you want but config ;-)
<CarlFK> seb128: I am quoting that page - either way, where would i put the file that "dconf update" will find?
<seb128> desrt, that's rather a dbus issue, but gsettings set failing due to dbus-launch initialization X11 fails ... do you have a recommended workaround?
<desrt> on 'dconf update'?
<seb128> desrt, CarlFK tries to set gsettings key during an install (not sure about the environement context where he runs the commands)
<desrt> is this https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662079 ?
<ubot2> Gnome bug 662079 in dconf "Request for functionality to update database of a user, as well as for the system." [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
<seb128> CarlFK, ^ desrt is the gsettings,dconf writer
<desrt> it's not really possible to inject values into the database of a particular user without being that user
<desrt> unless you have systemd =)
<CarlFK> lucky for me systemwide is fine
<desrt> what is your usecase, specifically?
<desrt> and why can't you use an override?
<CarlFK> I am trying to disable screen saver,  blank screen on lid close, not dim.. few other power settings
<CarlFK> and 2: I don't know how :)
<desrt> are you working on ubuntu or are you a sysadmin? :)
<seb128> desrt, he's not doing packaging if that's the question :p
<CarlFK> configing up personal machines
<seb128> i.e it's a custom install,sysadmin question
<CarlFK> yeah
<desrt> CarlFK: and you want the setting applied to all users
<desrt> not just yourself
<CarlFK> desrt: don't really care, the systems will only ever have 1 user
<desrt> CarlFK: so just set those settings in your own session
<CarlFK> how?
<desrt> CarlFK: gnome-tweak-tool should let you do most of them
<desrt> otherwise you can use the dconf-editor to get to the rest
<CarlFK> ah, I want this done with a script that's called from the late_command hook of the installer
<CarlFK> https://github.com/CarlFK/veyepar/blob/master/setup/scripts/late.sh
<desrt> ah
<desrt> deployment question
<CarlFK> right
<desrt> okay
<desrt> then https://live.gnome.org/dconf/SystemAdministrators is for you
<desrt> create /etc/dconf/profile directory and throw a file called "user" in there with two lines:
<desrt> user
<desrt> site
<desrt> then create /etc/dconf/db/site.d/ and throw a keyfile in there with your custom settings
<desrt> then run 'dconf update'
<desrt> and you should be in good shape
<CarlFK> cool - was surprised that those dirs didn't already exist
<desrt> user settings (from ~) will take precedence over the ones in site.d
<desrt> but you can also do locks (in the way describe on the wiki) if you like
<desrt> CarlFK: it doesn't exist by default because dconf has its own built-in config
<desrt> CarlFK: those extra files are only needed if the admin wants to mess around with stuff
<CarlFK> the systems are more like appliances: single use.   I set them up, go to PyCon, record talks to the drive, encode, post, and ship all the systems back to Chicago :)
<CarlFK> thanks for the tips on what to create.
<CarlFK> desrt: not a problem for me, but i'm curious - why the uint32 when I do: $ gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.session idle-delay
<CarlFK> uint32 600
<CarlFK> everything else just dumps the number
<desrt> because you're using GVariant
<desrt> which has the dbus type system
<desrt> which is very strongly typed -- unsigned ints and ints are not interchangeable
<desrt> that particular setting is defined as being an unsigned int
<chrisccoulson> seb128, mind trying this? http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/messagingmenu.xpi
<chrisccoulson> although, i'm not sure it will fix your issue yet
<chrisccoulson> it looks like messages are always marked as read before they are removed from a folder
<chrisccoulson> but perhaps you hit a case that i don't ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, I could reproduce it, not sure how it happened
<seb128> I can try to run your version and see if it still happens
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<CarlFK> desrt: do I need to change all my dots to slashes in [org.gnome.desktop.screensaver] ?
<CarlFK>  
<chrisccoulson> seb128, can you turn on extensions.logging.enabled in the config editor as well, and run it in a console?
<chrisccoulson> (that will produce a lot of output though)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I can do, but not sure how often I hit the issue
<seb128> let see if I get anything from it ;-)
<desrt> CarlFK: it's not always a direct one-to-one mapping
<desrt> CarlFK: you should look at what path='' is defined by that schema
<desrt> it's often the same, but it's best to check
<desrt> note also that dconf is utterly aware of schemas, so you need to make sure you're explicit about the types
<desrt> for the uint32 thing for example, you must explicitly write that
<desrt> idle-delay=uint32 600
<CarlFK> desrt: in the installer, trying to see if my settings took:  # gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.screensaver idle-activation-enabled = Segmentation fault
<desrt> that's very interesting
<desrt> stacktrace in a new bug on bugzilla.gnome.org, please?
<CarlFK> is there some way to tell gdb not to prompt me with ---Type <return> to continue, or q <return> to quit---
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.de/tJLir/  - is there a ddeb? I can install to get the missing tables?
<seb128> CarlFK, http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/d/d-conf/
<seb128> the dconf-gsettings-backend one corresponding to your arch at least
<CarlFK> seb128: yeah, that.  thanks
<CarlFK> desrt: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662141
<ubot2> Gnome bug 662141 in gsettings backend "gsettings segfauilt" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<desrt> CarlFK: thanks.  i'll take a look later on.
<RAOF> Morning robert_ancell!
<robert_ancell> RAOF, hello
<TheMuso> Morning folks.
 * bryceh waves
 * TheMuso is watching the ongoing Qantas strikes with growing concern.
<RAOF> TheMuso: Yeah.  It's time to book flights - it seems like a lot of people want to get to Budapest.
<TheMuso> RAOF: I am not thinking about that, I am thinking about our upcoming flight to the US.
<RAOF> Well, that too.
<TheMuso> Although flights in January are somethign that need booking, agreed.
<bryceh> who's turn to run the meeting this week?
<bryceh> or, are we skipping this week on account of the release?
<TheMuso> I suspect Jason is otherwise occupied, and forgot to request a chair for the meeting. :)
<TheMuso> But I suspect we are pretty much all burried in merges/SRUs for Oneiric.
 * bryceh nods
<broder> TheMuso: hey, quick question. is there any way for me to cross-reference a window in the AT-SPI registry with its XID? i couldn't find a way, but figured you might know something i didn't
<TheMuso> broder: I don't *think* so. I know an atk object is used to represet the window, but I am not sure whether it stores data about its X equivalent. I suggest looking through the atk API docs, and asking in #a11y on gimpnet to see if a more knowledgable atk person can help you.
<TheMuso> I know a recent role for a window was introduced, but not sure if any more was done.
<RAOF> dobey: I'm not familiar enough with grabs to be able to answer that well, sorry.
<micahg> \o/ new GTK2 upstream release :)
<tjader> hbmenu isn't working for me :/
<tjader> ops
<tjader> wrong channel, sorry
<bryceh> pitti, now that the release is done, would love it if you could look at my patch for apport - https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/359810
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 359810 in apport "support filing bugs against source packages" [Wishlist,Triaged]
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-10-19
<micahg> TheMuso: libatk1.0-dev seems to be uninstallable in precise, could you have a look?
<TheMuso> micahg: Sure.
<micahg> TheMuso: thanks
<TheMuso> micahg: Architecture skew. I synced atk earlier, and amd64 doesn't have new packages published yet, whereas i386 does.
<micahg> TheMuso: ah, ok, thanks, I guess I should check on that first :), makes sense with a build queue a half day long :-/
<TheMuso> Yup.
<CarlFK> desrt: trying to do what you suggested, now X doesn't start.  post install script: https://github.com/CarlFK/veyepar/blob/master/setup/scripts/late.sh#L33
<CarlFK> found this in syslog:  Unable to open '/etc/dconf/db/site', specified in dconf profile#012#012aborting...
<TheMuso> 3~/c
<desrt> CarlFK: did you remember 'dconf update'?
<CarlFK> desrt: yep
<desrt> and that didn't generate the site file from the contents of the site.d directory?
<CarlFK> correct
<desrt> can you type this:
<desrt> grep -r . /etc/dconf
<desrt> and pastebin the result?
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.de/0mLBr/
<desrt> does 'dconf update' give any errors when you run it?
<CarlFK> http://dpaste.de/PcqrQ/
<desrt> wtf?
<desrt> uhhh.  that's not dconf.
 * desrt suddenly understands the problem
<desrt> there is a package called 'dconf' that nobody ever uses
<desrt> i bet you installed it
<desrt> i think the package you wanted was 'dconf-bin', rather
<CarlFK> yeah, cuz otherwise I get "command not found"
<CarlFK> ah
<desrt> you also want to yell at seb128 tomorrow as soon as he logs in
<desrt> tell him i sent my love :)
<CarlFK> dconf-bin or -tools?
<CarlFK> tools.
<desrt> sorry
<desrt> my bad :)
<CarlFK> /etc/dconf/db/site.d/local.dconf: Key file contains line 'lock-enabled false' which is not a key-value pair, group, or comment
<CarlFK> ahh, missed the =
<desrt> now you're in business :)
<desrt> i expect things will start working much better for you very very soon
<CarlFK> seems so.  thanks for the help
<desrt> CarlFK: remember to flame seb :)
<CarlFK> um.. what am I yelling at him about?
<desrt> something along the lines of "i wasted hours because i installed this package called 'dconf' assuming that it would be dconf"
<desrt> =)
<CarlFK> heh
 * desrt tried to get him to ditch that old package a long time ago
<CarlFK> but the dconf dconf has a funny man page
<desrt> there's a similar problem with a package called 'epiphany'
<desrt> the only reason anyone ever installs that package is by accident because they intended to install the package called 'epiphany-browser
<desrt> '
<CarlFK> juser@kasp:/etc$ sudo dconf update; Error opening directory '/etc/dconf/db/site.d/locks': No such file or directory
<desrt> i find that curious
<desrt> what version of ubuntu are you running?
<CarlFK> oneiric
<desrt> i find that *very* curious
<desrt> well
<desrt> make that directory...
<desrt> but that really shouldn't be required
<desrt> i think i see the problem
<desrt> CarlFK: please file a bug about this one
<desrt> i guess nobody hit it before because people usually only use this mechanism for doing lockdown
<desrt> and then there's always a locks directory
<CarlFK> package: dconf ? :)
<desrt> on bugzilla.gnome.org, yes
<CarlFK> ah, there - I am used to lp
<CarlFK> what version is this?
<desrt> it's in master
<CarlFK> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662158
<ubot2> Gnome bug 662158 in dconf "dconf update requires /etc/dconf/db/site.d/locks" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<TheMuso> desrt: I thought the dconf update command was only for system wide db updating. How can that be used per user?
<desrt> it can't
<desrt> CarlFK is setting up system defaults
<CarlFK> seems it all worked manually, now lets see if got my script all set right.. install started.. time to play Monsters for a while
<TheMuso> desrt: Hrm ok, I was referring to the bug I filed about being able to create/update the db for indivual users. I'll follow up there.
<desrt> ah.  that was you :)
<TheMuso> Yes.
<desrt> CarlFK: good luck :)
<desrt> hopefully you don't find some other silly issue
<desrt> CarlFK: i appreciate the testing though, so thanks for that
<desrt> i think you're the first person i know of who has tried to do this from an installer script
<desrt> CarlFK: heading to bed now.  let me know if you hit any more bumps.
<desrt> nite
<CarlFK> desrt: welcome.  I ve done..
<CarlFK> dev before, know the value.. tests and bug reports are a way for me to give back
<CarlFK> see ya
<pitti> Good morning
<RAOF> Heya pitti
<pitti> hey RAOF
<RAOF> How do you get through the gnome update SRUs so quickly? :)
<pitti> RAOF: most of the diff is just autofoo and documentation noise usually
<RAOF> This is true.
<infinity> pitti: That was your chance to claim super powers, and you just blew it.
<pitti> that, and /^--- [Enter] in vim :)
<pitti> (i. e. jump to the next file in the diff)
 * infinity does the same thing...
<pitti> but at some point queuediff should grow some filter options which pipe the thing through filterdiff
<pitti> dropping autofoo, po file, and doc stuff
<infinity> I dunno.
<infinity> That's asking to enshrine sketchy practices. :P
<infinity> I still quickly eyeball changes to configure to make sure it just looks like an version bump rebuild, etc.
<pitti> RAOF: but I didn't actually do SRU reviews today yet; the current bunch was from Clint or you, judging by the time
<pitti> ah, I mostly just look at configure.ac for that
<infinity> Sometimes, the entire change to a package it within autotools (say, changing some linking options or something).
<RAOF> Yeah, from me.
<infinity> pitti: Oh, fair enough, dropping configure but looking at the pre-gen files is sane.
<pitti> infinity: oh, absolutely, yes; configure.ac changes are very important
<pitti> new dependencies and all that
<infinity> pitti: Or, it's mostly sane now that very few packages touch configure directly and then do the painful touch dance. :P
<infinity> (I'm sure some still do)
<pitti> dh_autoreconf was certainly a good invention
<pitti> RAOF: ok, oneiric unapproved once again down to 2 (which are blocked)
<pitti> madness, I say
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Hey didrocks
<didrocks> hey RAOF, how are you?
<RAOF> Ok
<RAOF> Your fine self?
<didrocks> I'm fine as well, thanks!
<didrocks> RAOF: pitti: urgh, sorry for the apport hook in g-p-m. I was trying to rebase the branch to not remove it and reintegrate the change afterward (see the packaging branch), seems I missed something :/
<pitti> didrocks: no worries; it's really useless, so I accepted it
<pitti> there, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise?searchtext=desktop-p- :)
<didrocks> yeah, still sorry for it! :)
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hey tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> pitti, jasoncwarner_, it is about the Blueprints. Jason has opened https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-system-config-printer whereas I had already opened https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-system-config-printer-vs-gnome-3-control-center. Are they not duplicate?
<pitti> tkamppeter: they certainly are
<pitti> tkamppeter: I'll close jason's
<tkamppeter> pitti, should we continue with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-system-config-printer-vs-gnome-3-control-center, it contains more info.
<tkamppeter> pitti, I will make Jason essential participant of mine, seems that I have forgotten that.
<pitti> tkamppeter: done, I re-targetted to precise
<pitti> tkamppeter: and reopened to "discussion'
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<didrocks> pitti: should I register a blueprint for the polish work? "Small things matters, polish needed!" about all the small things that would be nice to tackle in Precise? (not sure it needs a session though)
<tkamppeter> pitti, all my blueprints got accepted into the UDS, except https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-google-cloud-print-integration. Does it mean that this one is rejected or do I have to wait until it gets processed?
<tkamppeter> pitti, and is "desktop" the right track for Google Cloud Print Integration and Common Printing Dialog? Or is there something special for the DX team?
<pitti> tkamppeter: desktop track sounds right for this
<pitti> tkamppeter: accepted cloud printing for uds-p, too
<TheMuso> didrocks: Speaking of pollish, could you please add notes of what you found when working with the French locl etc for accessibility when installing oneiric to the accessibility pollish blueprint?
<tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
<TheMuso> didrocks:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-accessibility-polish
<didrocks> TheMuso: I'll add them to one of them, right. However, a lot of things changed for Oneiric
<didrocks> TheMuso: I guess the report from the a11y on planet ubuntu covers most of it
<didrocks> like even if you enabled a11y with screen reader, orca isn't launched
<TheMuso> didrocks: Oh ok, I thought you were talking about Oneiric in your email to ubuntu-desktop.
<didrocks> TheMuso: no, we tested on natty
<TheMuso> Ok.
<didrocks> pitti: looks good? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-desktop-polish
<didrocks> pitti: I really think it doesn't need discussion at UDS, just a place holder where people can put their thought and have WI
<pitti> didrocks: sure, I declined your uds-p proposal :)
<didrocks> oupsss, autotyping :)
<pitti> didrocks: updated the other properties
<pitti> didrocks: targetting to precise, etc; looks ok to you?
<didrocks> pitti: looks good! Thanks, I'll send an email as well
<pitti> RAOF: if you have a minute, perhaps you can review pygobject for bug 877397 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877397 in pygobject "gedit in -proposed breaks snippets plugin" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877397
<pitti> (I uploaded it, so I can't accept it)
<didrocks> pitti: oh, you fixed it or workaround without using GObject(Type=) ?
<pitti> didrocks: it's fixed
<pitti> didrocks: already got fixed upstream in pygobject by nacho
<didrocks> excellent! :)
<pitti> gedit works fine now
<ajmitch> has the fix for bug 855402 landed in upstream git?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 855402 in unity "Python lenses segfault with pygobject3" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855402
<didrocks> ajmitch: not yet, tomeu had some concerns with the patch that kamstrup fixed, it's pending another review AFAIK
<ajmitch> ok
<kamstrup> ajmitch, didrocks: correct. Although davidcalle has reported that the patch works for him
 * ajmitch is using pygobject with the patch applied at the moment to get some lenses working
<kamstrup> maybe we should stick a patched pygobject in some pa for easy testing?
<kamstrup> didrocks: ^ ?
<ajmitch> I have it in mine
<kamstrup> ajmitch: oh you have a ppa up?
<ajmitch> & the ~askubuntu-tools PPA with a slightly saner version
<kamstrup> nice to know
<didrocks> kamstrup: all pygobject is pitti, I won't even dare approaching this :-)
<kamstrup> didrocks: hehe, ok :-)
<ajmitch> it should be applied on top of the SRU that pitti just uploaded though :)
<pitti> ajmitch: no, not yet
<pitti> kamstrup: upstream didn't like it, or did tomeu/J5 not get around to reviewing it yet?
<kamstrup> ajmitch: but it's very nice to know that the patch is receiving field testing. If you see any leaks or crashes be sure to report them
<ajmitch> kamstrup: sure, though most lens problems that I'm having are with the code I'm writing :)
<kamstrup> pitti: it hasn't been reviewed yet, despite me punking. I think they want j5 to review but I haven't seen him online since I posted the patch, despite checking daily (and nightly)
<kamstrup> pitti: i'll note in the upstream bug that we've had users test it out and they are happy
 * ajmitch had wanted to get the askubuntu lens into extras.ubuntu.com prior to UDS
<rye> So update manager asked me this: http://ubuntuone.com/0bmLdKBmiDJiyZP6uAR3SF - whether i want to replace defaults.list. I clicked on Changes and got http://ubuntuone.com/0GhdUGbGQBMF0Ot6w0czyF - a bit narrow
<kamstrup> dpm: hey there -) any chance we can update the links on dev.u.c to point to the libunity we ship in 11.10?
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<pitti> mvo: guten Morgen
<didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti, how are you?
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<pitti> rodrigo_: I'm great, thanks! how about you?
<rodrigo_> pitti, fine also, thanks :)
<mvo> hey pitti
<mvo> guten morgen!
<pitti> mvo: wie gehts?
<pitti> mvo: I checked update-manager, and it seems postgresql was dropped from the blacklist (bug 871893); was that an accident?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 871893 in update-manager "After upgrading postgresql-databases are not accessible any more" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871893
<mvo> pitti: urgh, sure, I check what happend there and reupload a new version
<pitti> mvo: danke sehr; can you please upload with -v to include theh previous SRU changelog?
<pitti> mvo: does that need to have full package names, or does it support globs/regexps?
<dpm> kamstrup, done, and giraffe also updated to the latest revision (sorry for the delay, I had to fix a couple of things with the doc generator script that calls giraffe)
<mvo> pitti: sure, what versions of postgres? or all of them, i.e. ^postgresql-.*" ?
<pitti> mvo: yes, all of them
<pitti> also the packaged extensions
<pitti> mvo: ^postgresql-.* might catch some extra stuff, but looks good as a first start
<mvo> pitti: what will the extensions look like? (sorry for my ignorance)
<pitti> postgresql-plpython-8.4, postgresql-9.1-postgis, etc.
<pitti> ^postgresql-.-*\d\.\d.*
<pitti> perhaps?
<pitti> ^postgresql-.-*[0-9]\.[0-9].*
<pitti> if it doesn't support \d
<pitti> erk
<pitti> ^postgresql-.*-[0-9]\.[0-9].*
<pitti> still no cigar, doesn't match postgresql-9.1
<pitti> ^postgresql-.*[0-9]\.[0-9].*
<pitti> mvo: ^ that seems to work fine with apt-cache search
<mvo> pitti: yeah, this looks good, adding it now, thanks!
<pitti> mvo: thanks to you!
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson!
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks, yourself?
<seb128> hey
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: it's the new avahi code in cups that made cupsd leak dbus connections
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<seb128> hey didrocks, ca va, et toi ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm good thanks. how are you?
<seb128> lol, new cycle is barely starting that some people already suggest to delay the LTS on the lists...
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm ok, having a non-really-declared cold for 3 days, it's not really bad but annoying still
<chrisccoulson> oh, i hope you feel better soon
<chrisccoulson> what list are people suggesting delaying the LTS?
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ubuntu-devel-discuss
<chrisccoulson> ah, i don't read that anymore
<chrisccoulson> i don't even think i'm subscribed
<seb128> you are not missing a lot ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do you need me to keep my tb in a state where it misses emails in boxes or should I just click on all imaps boxes to have the refresh working?
<tjaalton> what's the tag for regressions in -updates?
<rodrigo_> hi seb128, chrisccoulson
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<chrisccoulson> seb128, does it work if you open the drop-down menu on the Get Mail button, and click on the name of the account rather than "Get All"?
<chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo_
<seb128> tjaalton, "regression-proposed" if the package is in proposed I think
<seb128> so I guess same with -updates if it moved to updates
<tjaalton> 'regression-update'
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm tempted to say "no", but tb is bad at giving feedback on the fact that it's fetching emails
<seb128> chrisccoulson, like I can click on the button or any of the dropdown options and nothing ever change on screen
<tjaalton> tkamppeter: filed bug 877967
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877967 in cups "avahi leaks dbus connections to the system bus, breaking other apps depending on them" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877967
<seb128> no animation, no scrollbar
<chrisccoulson> yes, that's a bit annoying
<chrisccoulson> there is a spinner but it doesn't seem to do anything when you click that button
<chrisccoulson> but it does work when it fetches mail automatically
<didrocks> I opened evolution this morgen and was striken by how good it looks compared to tb :/
<chrisccoulson> really?
<chrisccoulson> i think evolution looks horrible ;)
<chrisccoulson> which theme do you use?
<didrocks> I use the default theme for both
<didrocks> in tb, the blue in the email title has no meaning
<seb128> tb just looks different from any other application we ship
<seb128> including firefox
<seb128> they made a better job at make firefox looks like a native application
<didrocks> yeah, that's my issue, we need coherence
<seb128> I can't pinpoint what it is by tb looks really weird to me
<chrisccoulson> heh, i thought that when i first started using it. but now i find that evolution looks really weird to me ;)
<seb128> yeah, you got used to tb
<seb128> but it still looks different from every other applications we ship
<seb128> I think part has to do with the spacing
<seb128> the email list has less spacing that others GNOME applications
<seb128> same for the folders list on the left
<seb128> it might be good for extra content on screen but I find it to be too busy
<chrisccoulson> yeah, the spacing has been mentioned before. that's tweakable in the theme though
<chrisccoulson> we should mention that to andreasn if he's at UDS ;)
<seb128> right
<seb128> it's also weird how discussions are displayed by default
<seb128> it should expand those, the "display 1 line and an useless summary when selecting it" is not really usable
<didrocks> I
<didrocks> I already mentioned it :)
<didrocks> so I guess we agree, and that's why I used the conversations view
<didrocks> but it's quite buggy :/
<seb128> well, out of those it's snappy and really less buggy than evo
<seb128> especially it doesn't freeze doing whatever and force you a restart with something a --force-shutdown because it's stucked enough that it will not close
<didrocks> but sometimes it doesn't want to close there :)
<didrocks> and I get the gnome-session dialog about "this application isn't respondingâ¦" on session stop
<didrocks> but it seems I'm the only one to get it, chrisccoulson can't reproduce it
<seb128> yeah, never saw that one
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ok, tell us, what do you like and disklike in gnome-shell? ;-)
<seb128> same for unity ;-)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, did you manage to attach gdb to it?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, every time I have that, it's when it's late ;)
<didrocks> seb128: he dislikes both, he loves unity-2d :)
<seb128> didrocks, well, when I was saying unity it's 2d
<chrisccoulson> seb128, gnome-shell looks really polished, the animations are really smooth, there's a lot of consistency with their system dialogs, the system indicators are really well designed and the menus look nice too
<seb128> 2d and 3d are quite the same design wise, just some stability and look differences
<didrocks> (and features)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, 2d is a lot more stable, and the design of the dash is nicer in 2d as well
<chrisccoulson> i just miss the new alt+tab switcher
<seb128> I don't get why people like the new switcher
<tjaalton> tb crashes here often when i'm filling the recipient address of a new message
<tjaalton> probably the ldap backend failing
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it looks nice ;)
<seb128> it's just a list of icons you don't even see the previews ;-)
<chrisccoulson> although, i can't say that i've used it enough to discover its downsides yet
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i don't like previews. they're too small to see what's in them
<seb128> right
<seb128> chrisccoulson, so is there anything you dislike about the shell? ;-)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: use it a little, you will see the downsides :)
<chrisccoulson> with previews, my browser, email client and text editor all look the same
<chrisccoulson> seb128, the shell uses too much screen real estate
<seb128> yeah, I didn't like that either when I tried
<seb128> the stopper to me was to have to "zoom out" to the activity view every time you want to switch applications
<seb128> it's too much context switching on screen
<seb128> \o/ unity super-n and launcher
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that's a pain
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> do our designers look at things in gnome-shell btw?
<seb128> dunno
<chrisccoulson> it seems that there's a lot we could learn ;)
<seb128> well I think we are not "there yet", they still have lot they designed that didn't get properly done yet in unity
<seb128> i.e what is not missing is items to put on the todo list, it's manpower to get the job done
<didrocks> my major issue with the shell is this "zoom out" as well, seems disturbing
<seb128> they both have good sides
<chrisccoulson> i would like unity more if the icons in the dash weren't blurry :)
<seb128> I think unity will be better once everything is done, shell is ahead, they have it mostly polished
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<seb128> but shell lacks quite a lot of things unity does
<Amaranth> shell does less, does it well, and has like a year head start
<seb128> lenses have potential, the launcher is unity is a real launcher, the messaging menu and sound menu have integration with applications
<chrisccoulson> yeah, those are nice
<Amaranth> btw, anyone find an IRC client better than xchat-gnome yet? :)
<seb128> well, both are fine, let's not troll, I will stay on unity for 2 things, the launcher (and not have to context switch to the expose every time) and the screen estate
<seb128> like I really got used to the "no scrollbar, no menu, no decoration"
<Amaranth> I've been spoiled by linkinus on OS X
<seb128> i.e you get the screen space for you
<didrocks> Amaranth: weechat ;)
<seb128> I'm using xchat-gnome
<Amaranth> gnome-shell is a pretty slick experience, no doubt about that
<Amaranth> I actually really like the dynamic workspaces, seems someone at Apple did too :)
<didrocks> yeah, a lot of people in the community likes that too (well, the vocal majority on forums)
<seb128> I'm probably getting old by I like my fixed workspace grid with things where I pu tthem
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> I'm back to 4 ws now, but spawn on 2 screens
<Amaranth> didrocks: weechat? eh, cli
<didrocks> right :)
<Amaranth> maybe I should take another look at Konversation
<seb128> didrocks, was robert_ancell around today?
<seb128> RAOF, hey, still there?
<didrocks> seb128: didn't speak to him, but pitti is there earlier than I
<seb128> ok
<pitti> didn't talk to Robert today, sorry
<pitti> but he was in IRC when I joined
<rodrigo_> hmm, not sure it makes much sense to update gnome-bluetooth, only some small memory leaks fixed
<rodrigo_> should I SRU it anyway?
<pitti> what is "small"?
<rodrigo_> pitti, let me see..
<rodrigo_> pitti, http://pastebin.com/R0ne9BCM
<pitti> 10 byte a day (not worthwhile),  10 MB a day (worthwhile
<pitti> rodrigo_: ah, that's just the management capplet, not the applet/indicator?
<pitti> not worth an SRU then IMHO
<rodrigo_> well, it's the lib, isn't it?
<pitti> oh, there are GtkTreePaths in a lib?
<rodrigo_> yeah, not worth I think
<pitti> rodrigo_: are there also some translation updates?
<pitti> if not, we can just SRU .2 then
<seb128> only 2 translations, I would skip this one
<rodrigo_> pitti, yes, also translations, but only a couple
<seb128> the leaks seem small one, I don't think the list change that often
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw did you see the GNOME 3.2 against 3.4 discussion on the desktop list?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, haven't answered because it's not clear yet what's going to be new in 3.4
<rodrigo_> if we are upgrading the platform libs, I'd vote for 3.4
<rodrigo_> just wanted to be 100% sure before suggesting that :)
<chrisccoulson> wow, this is the first time i've used update-manager in oneiric :)
<chrisccoulson> it just popped up for me
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> normally it's just a daily apt-get dist-upgrade ;)
<mvo> pitti: could you please have a quick look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/712977/ ? its  ugly as it will introduce a new transitional package in main post-release, but it was the only sensible way I found to fix the bug if a old libcupsys2 package is still installed
<mvo> chrisccoulson: the  security updates I'm sure
<chrisccoulson> mvo - yeah, there's a few security updates
<pitti> mvo: eek
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, well feel free to respond on the lists but please argue on why you think we should go for 3.4 ;-) did you recent the recent exchanges on the topic and the "spending the cycle playing catchup on unstable version against spending time fixing issues"?
<pitti> mvo: Conflicts/Replaces: libcupsys2 isn't enough?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, read it all
<rodrigo_> seb128, still, using 3.2 will have us playing catchup, as we'll have to backport stuff, which is much more work IMO
<pitti> libcupsys2 was obsoleted in hardy
<mvo> pitti: let me try a bit harder
<pitti> mvo: if we need this, can we please not drop the Provides:?
<mvo> pitti: yeah, but it seems quite a few people still have it installed, its one of the most common resolver breakages currently
<seb128> rodrigo_, well, we will have to play catchup only to backport fixes and on the components we care about
<pitti> mvo: ok, so it seems we forgot to clean up that one
<pitti> mvo: but at some point we need to uninstall it during upgrades; will that transitional package make that easier?
<mvo> pitti: it seems the provides is needed as libapt has a bug in the handling of the provides, it assumes libcupsys2 is a non-multiarch lib and that causes the issues
<pitti> mvo: you mean dropping the provides is needed?
<mvo> pitti: right, I think once apt is properly fixed we can drop it, I'm working some more on it
<pitti> mvo: hang on
<mvo> pitti: yes, it looks very strongly like this is needed, but I will try harder to use conflicts to get rid of it
<pitti> mvo: oh, you mean "is needed" -> the transitional pacakge, not the Provides:
<pitti> mvo: does it hurt to keep the Provides: libcupsys2, too?
<pitti> mvo: so, fine for me then, if this helps to resolve upgrades (but I would still like to keep the Provides:)
<rodrigo_> seb128, I think using the stable versions is the only way we have to influence what is done in GNOME, that's why I prefer targetting the unstable version always
<rodrigo_> s/stable/unstable, sorry
<seb128> rodrigo_, you mean you feel comfortable replacing i.e udisk by a rewrite in a lts cycle?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I'm not saying that :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, well that's part of advocating going for 3.4 ;-
<seb128> ;-)
<RAOF> seb128: Yo!
<seb128> hey RAOF
<rodrigo_> but if we target unstable versions, we can influence in having the old udisks still supported, for instance, if that's possible at all
<seb128> RAOF, did you get my email about that g-s-d screen config issue?
<rodrigo_> whereas leaving us in 3.2 will just postpone the work of integrating that
<mvo> pitti: it looks strongly like both is needed, but I agree to your concerns, I will see if I can find a more elegant way
<seb128> rodrigo_, you want to bet with me that they will not want to support 2 backends? ;-)
<pitti> mvo: you mean dropping the provides: is needed? okay then
<RAOF> seb128: "Xrandr caplets bug"?
<rodrigo_> seb128, I never bet :)
<pitti> mvo: I guess with a transitional package we don't need the provides
<mvo> pitti: yeah
<seb128> RAOF, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, but that's part of the problem of us not targetting unstable in some cycles, we are not in a strong position to be part of the decision
<rodrigo_> seb128, we just have to wait for what "they" decide
<rodrigo_> so given that, it's probably better to target stable, but that just postpones the issues
<seb128> rodrigo_, right, it we were on the unstable serie they wouldn't drop the libg-c-c shared library ... oh wait ;-)
<rodrigo_> seb128, that's a bad example, the patch to undrop it was so small that it wasn't worth the effort arguing more about it
<rodrigo_> also, at the end, we didn't need it much, except for deja dup
<rodrigo_> so it wasn't an issue at all
<seb128> rodrigo_, bastien moved bluetooth in trunk yesterday and switched the lib to be a static and not shared one, but yeah another topic
<seb128> rodrigo_, I think that
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, saw it
<seb128> - shipping the stable serie doesn't prevent us to be involved in the unstable serie that we will land next cycle
<seb128> - we don't have enough people to be involved in all upstream components
<rodrigo_> that's true
<seb128> so yeah, I would go for "upgrade the stack and track things we care about"
<seb128> i.e pick our battles
<seb128> like maybe go for g-c-c and g-s-d 3.4 and made the tweaks to make them run on 3.2
<seb128> they will probably don't need us to take the udisk,gvfs transition
<ricotz> hello, just wanted to say glib master is getting better
<seb128> ricotz, hey, great ;-)
<rodrigo_> hi ricotz
<ricotz> the gstreamer issue is solved
<ricotz> seb128, rodrigo_, hey :)
<rodrigo_> ricotz, which issue was that with gstreamer?
<ricotz> mutex_unlock problem
<rodrigo_> ah
<seb128> rodrigo_, glib 2.31 "fun" ;-)
<rodrigo_> :)
<ricotz> seb128, better to catch these issues now rather than after the first 2.31.x release ;)
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> ricotz, what issues are remaining?
<ricotz> currently no obvious ones
<ricotz> i had a nautilus crash which i am trying to trigger for a trace
<mvo> pitti: \o/ I think I can get away with c/r/p for the libcupsys2 issue
<pitti> mvo: yippie
<pitti> that'll also be a nice cleanup
<mvo> pitti: I'm uploading it now to proposed :) thanks for not letting the first (ugly) solution pass that easily
<pitti> thanking me for making your life hard, yay :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, have you experienced any incorrect indicator counts yet?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, not yet but I didn't drive my boxes to 0 yet so I didn't check carefully the counters ;-)
<seb128> I noticed it yesterday because I was all read and the indicator was still blue
<mvo> pitti: hard in the good way ;)
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok. thanks
 * pitti hugs mvo
 * mvo hugs pitti
<sroecker> apropos nautilus crash, there is bug 795708
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 795708 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in nautilus_window_slot_get_current_uri()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795708
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, does anyone else understand how http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/mfbt/Util.h#420 works?
<pitti> chrisccoulson: you mean what a const_cast is?
<pitti> oh, l420, ignore me (bottom of file, thus l420 isn't at the top)
<mvo> chrisccoulson: that is pretty clever
<chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i'm trying to figure out how ArrayLength works
<pitti> chrisccoulson: ah, clever
<mvo> chrisccoulson: do you have a example usage, I think I get how it works, but I want to double check with some real code
<pitti> chrisccoulson: this only works for statically sized arrays, not for pointers
<pitti> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/netwerk/streamconv/converters/nsDirIndexParser.cpp#168
<pitti> ^ example
<mvo> chrisccoulson: the template functions will also be optimized away later most likely so that its not even bloating anything
<pitti> so if you have e. g. an int[3], the preprocessor already knows the size
<pitti> and wil create a template instance for the type int[3] (which is different from e. g. int[6])
<pitti> then it just uses pattern matching to return the size
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<pitti> so this is just a very very complicated way of saying "sizeof myarray"
<pitti> which is also evaluated at build time and optimized away to just be a constant in the resulting code
<pitti> someone just likes C++ too much apparently :)
<mvo> or like to show off a very clever use of template functions :)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, it was introduced here - https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/b9b9d9f379db
<chrisccoulson> heh
<pitti> wow, there are compilers who manage to get this mess right, but don't support the standard C sizeof? *blink*
<pitti> it's also in the C++ standard
<pitti> well, once you have it it might be easier to use because you don't need to explicitly know the size of the array element
<pitti> i. e. sizeof (myarray) / sizeof(int)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that was the old approach
<chrisccoulson> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=693469#c0
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 693469 in General "Implement mozilla::ArrayLength and mozilla::ArrayEnd" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<seb128> kirkland, hi, could you look at bug #874924 when you will be up, some users get a consolekit timeout on login when they have a .ecryptfs for a private dir (they don't use ecryptfs for their user dir but only a subdir)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 874924 in lightdm "WARNING: Failed to open CK session: Timeout was reached (ecryptfs subdir)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874924
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you notice that pitti blocked the g-c-c sru with a question on a change which was not targetted to oneiric?
<seb128> didrocks, hey
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> didrocks, does your "polish" topic overlap with the "Desktop quality (bugs fixing)" I sent before?
<seb128> they seem similar in the spirit to me
<didrocks> seb128: I was wondering, but seeing the blueprints registered for "bugs", I think a separate blueprint to track them is necessary
<seb128> ok
<didrocks> seb128: meaning, polish is not only bug fixing
<seb128> I doubt I've enough to discuss about "bugs" for a session
<didrocks> it's small things that make everyday life hard
<seb128> it's just a "do it"
<didrocks> seb128: we can probably discuss the polish there if needed then
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> do not hesitate to file ideas btw :)
<seb128> didrocks, "polish is not only bug fixing", right that's where I used "quality" ;-)
<seb128> seems we are in agreement
<seb128> I just think bugs need to discuss so let's do one session about "polish"
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, no, looking
<didrocks> I saw more quality for bug fixes, but yeah, we globaly agree :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, by mail?
<seb128> didrocks, the u1 not well integrated will also be discussed in the "control center cleanup" I think btw (I saw you had a topic about it)
<didrocks> seb128: ok, feel free to remove it then or append a note that it will be discussed there
<seb128> didrocks, we can have overlapping topic, I was just pointing it, I like your first list, I will look to add some extra ones ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: great! I'll try to think about it in the coming days as well. I think there are a lot of opportunity which are missing there
<seb128> rodrigo_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/864618/comments/20
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 864618 in gnome-control-center "sets $LANG to a language name" [Low,In progress]
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah ok
<seb128> didrocks, "(like number of workspaces)", design will kill you :p
<seb128> didrocks, oh btw speaking about the nm indicator do you know if there is still work to switch to the indicator-network based on nm rather than connman? cyphermox was looking at adding a nm backend this cycle
<seb128> didrocks, don't bother, I will check with cyphermox directly when he's up later ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: from what I know, nothing is done for connmann right now
<seb128> didrocks, right, the work cyphermox was doing was to look at rebase the indicator (which is based on connman) on nm
<seb128> so we could use the nice ui and keep nm
<didrocks> yeah, would be nice, I think it's up to him to take it, nothing will happen otherwise
<chrisccoulson> g'ah, twice in one week
<chrisccoulson> i hate the KDE patch we have in firefox
<rodrigo_> pitti, just answered to your comment in bug 864618
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 864618 in gnome-control-center "sets $LANG to a language name" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/864618
<rodrigo_> pitti, the patch from Gunnar is to fix the ugly ISO... string that is added to the language names
<rodrigo_> the non-utf8 lnags I mean
<rodrigo_> it's quite ugly though, I'm really willing to remove that patch completely
<pitti> rodrigo_: hm, so you are saying that we aren't even using this code? why do we need the patch then?
<rodrigo_> pitti, we are using it, where did I say that? :)
<pitti> rodrigo_: how does merely disabling that one line fix the string, as opposed to just leaving the variables uninitialized?
<pitti> rodrigo_: "since we are getting the list of languages from another place anyway"
<rodrigo_> disabling that line makes the code above use the default values for those variables
<rodrigo_> so that the codeset is not added to the non-utf8 lang names
<pitti> ah, so they are inited
<rodrigo_> code below, sorry
<pitti> ok, thanks
<rodrigo_> yes, the patch is really ugly, sorry about that
<rodrigo_> I just didn't know much about the diffs between how gnome retrieves the lang lists and ubuntu's way
<rodrigo_> now I'm starting to know a bit better, so will write an upstream patch to fix it there
<rodrigo_> and then remove that ugly patch :)
<pitti> mvo: cups change committed to Debian bzr; note that cups is already in -proposed, so can't accept your patch just yet
<pitti> mvo: ah, verified and 4 days, good 'nuff
 * pitti moves to -updats
 * mvo hugs pitti
<seb128> pitti, if you do a cups upload you should consider the commit tim pointed on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cups/+bug/877967/comments/4 maybe as well?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877967 in cups "avahi leaks dbus connections to the system bus, breaking other apps depending on them" [High,New]
<pitti> seb128: can do, thanks
<seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
<seb128> rodrigo_, bug #878076
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 878076 in gnome-settings-daemon "Regression in oneiric-proposed: Can't suspend my system anymore by using its power button" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878076
<asac> my biggest unity problems are with a) stacking (task switcher doesnt show on alt-tab) and b) the launcher does not fade in on screens where i have full screen apps. guess those are known and worked on or do i need to report/comment somewhere?
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, looking
<asac> and c) yesterday i couldnt find my OOO window anymore in the task switcher and had to minimize all windows - which was a scary moment as I did not yet save all my edits :) ... but cannot reproduce
<seb128> asac, c) is known
<seb128> asac, a) is a recurrent issues, it's less frequent nowadays, maybe didrocks or smspillaz knows if there is still a bug open tracking the issue still happening though
<didrocks> hum, a) is considered fixed apart from libroffice today
<didrocks> so asac, pease open a bug
<asac> i see a) after using my laptop a day
<asac> and then it never goes away
<didrocks> for b), I noticed that, are you currently in that state?
<seb128> asac, bug #862171
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 862171 in unity "Running instance of Libreoffice writer disappears from launcher, but keeps running" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862171
<didrocks> asac: yeah, once the stacking is screwed, it's over
<asac> seb128: good :)
<seb128> asac, that's your c)
<tkamppeter> pitti, I got a possible fix for bug 877967, perhaps we should join the SRU with the one for bug 874835, to not have such a long proposed queue and let the bug reporters wait too long for their updates.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877967 in cups "avahi leaks dbus connections to the system bus, breaking other apps depending on them" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877967
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 874835 in cups "[master] upgrade problem with libcupsys2: "E:Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874835
<asac> while it was scary, finding my window still alive was also a joyful experience :)
<didrocks> c) is known, I pinged smspillaz about it
<didrocks> yeah, seb128 got the bug :)
<asac> didrocks:  i am currently in state b)
<asac> didrocks: and a)
<asac> didrocks: i think they are related
<asac> because i can see the task switcher on a workspace with no windows
<didrocks> asac: maybe, can you try something with d-feet?
<asac> and ki can see the launcher on that window too
<asac> didrocks: sure. i can better give you whatever info you want from this state
<didrocks> asac: oh, for b), you didnt mean the launcher is not visible at all?
<didrocks> asac: I was understand doesn't fade away
<didrocks> understanding*
<asac> didrocks: i meant that on my screens where i have full screen windows i dont see
<asac> it
<asac> so from end user point of view it doesnt fade in, but i guess it fades in below this window
<didrocks> asac: this should be "fixed" with the unity version in -proposed
<asac> hmm
<didrocks> for b)
<didrocks> but it's a workaround
<asac> is that a workaround specific to the launcher? or maybe it also cures my task switcer?
<didrocks> asac: no, it's specific to the launcher and can't apply to the task switcher
<seb128> tkamppeter, see the log twenty minutes ago, I already pinged pitti about that
<asac> didrocks: ok. given that the reason why i miss the launcher is basically that i want to use it to work around the task switcher bug to go to a specific different window, it might help me anyway :)
<asac> didrocks: is that just one package?
<asac> i would prefer to not help on general -proposed testing :)
<didrocks> asac: it's unity, unity-common and unity-core
<didrocks> (libunity-core-4.0-4)
<asac> ok found
<didrocks> apt-get install unity should just pull that in
<asac> all in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity source
<didrocks> yeah
<seb128> rodrigo_, pitti: do you know what "sleep key" is? g-s-d has sleep,suspend,hibernate keys and the default for "button-sleep" is hibernate which seems a bit weird
<asac> didrocks: guess then killall compiz and hope it comes back?
<asac> ok had to start unity on console
<asac> strange... thought compiz gets restarted
<asac> didrocks: ok for now i see the launcher
<asac> i will let you know
<asac> and i see the task switcher too :/
<rodrigo_> seb128, I think it's the power key, looking
<seb128> rodrigo_, no, the keys have "button-hibernate", "button-power", "button-sleep", and "button-suspend" in the schemas
<didrocks> asac: let's see how it goes :)
<didrocks> asac: it's weird, autorestart seems to work, but not reliably
<seb128> rodrigo_, I'm just not sure how sleep and suspend,hibernate are different ;-)
<rodrigo_> yeah
<seb128> rodrigo_, btw the g-s-d update did fix some bugs in launchpad, I'm updating them now ;-)
<asac> guess it was not reliable this time for me then :) alright
<rodrigo_> { SLEEP_KEY, NULL, "XF86Suspend", NULL },
<seb128> rodrigo_, the "regression" I pointed is weird, the key is set to "suspend" on my oneiric (without proprosed) netbook and it does display the session dialog by default, it doesn't suspend
<rodrigo_> yeah, looking at the commits in media-keys
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, so "XF86Suspend" assigned to "hibernate" in the schemas by default seems buggy, but that's another bug ;-)
<seb128> does anyone know how I can get the key event sent by a multimedia key?
<seb128> xev doesn't seem to get those
<seb128> it's for bug #868358, I would like to know what event fn-12 sends
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 868358 in gnome-settings-daemon "hibernate key (fn + 12) triggers suspend on ThinkPad X200s" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868358
<tkamppeter> seb128, OK, did not see that when I posted. My message was simply a reaction on the e-mail notification of Tim's post.
<tkamppeter> seb128, thanks for pinging pitti, too.
<seb128> tkamppeter, yw
<didrocks> seb128: I have a trackpad activation button and I confirm that when using it, you see an empty notification with no icon
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hello Martin, do you have time for a question as regards bug 868346?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 868346 in lightdm "Language selector broken in Ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868346
<seb128> didrocks, do you run g-s-d from proposed? I just noticed it's supposed to be fixed there
<seb128> didrocks, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?h=gnome-3-2&id=387df5458a5b63c3b89baf6f58e2c12c2af78d6d
<didrocks> seb128: oh, not on that netbook, let me have a try
<seb128> didrocks, if you don't yet but can update and confirm bug #877058 is fixed it would be great
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877058 in gnome-settings-daemon "Touchpad enable/disable OSD image cannot be displayed in notification area" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877058
<didrocks> sure, let's have a try
<seb128> didrocks, 'ci ;-)
<seb128> none of my boxes have a key for that
<didrocks> seb128: de rien :)
<didrocks> well, my latest (which is my personal one) have one
<didrocks> I was just lazying not upgrading it before I need it for UDS
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I can't confirm the power button bug, the power button always display the session dialog for me, using oneiric or the proposed version
<seb128> hum, interesting, after changing in dconf-editor it behaves differently
<didrocks> killing gsd and restarting it after the upgrade didn't fix it :/
<seb128> didrocks, can you get the dbus-monitor --session log I asked for on the bug?
<didrocks> seb128: trying to get some
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, I can confirm the regression bug
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok
<didrocks> hum, quite spammy with bamf, let me filter that
<seb128> didrocks, run it, press the hotkey and ctrl-C
<seb128> bamf should shut up if you don't change focus or anything ;-)
<rodrigo_> lunch, bbiab
<didrocks> seb128: no, it doesn't :)
<seb128> didrocks, bad bamf, no cookie!
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> heh
<seb128> rodrigo_, enjoy
<didrocks> pastebining that
<pitti> seb128: I suppose some Fn+F<number> combination?
<pitti> GunnarHj: hello, what's up?
<mdeslaur> seb128: bug 868358 is a bug in my patch. Should be fixed in the package in -proposed.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 868358 in gnome-settings-daemon "hibernate key (fn + 12) triggers suspend on ThinkPad X200s" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868358
<seb128> mdeslaur, oh, what it? can you comment on the bug?
<mdeslaur> seb128: just did
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/713134/
<seb128> pitti, reply to what question was that?
<seb128> mdeslaur, thanks
<pitti> seb128: seb128 | rodrigo_, pitti: do you know what "sleep key" is?
<didrocks> int32 -1
<didrocks> weird, it seems to set the right attribute, but nothing is passed?
<seb128> didrocks, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?h=gnome-3-2&id=387df5458a5b63c3b89baf6f58e2c12c2af78d6d
<seb128> didrocks, it's weird, you still see "touchpad-enabled"
<seb128> didrocks, can you gnome-settings-daemon --version?
<seb128> didrocks, if you press it as second time do you get "touchpad disabled"?
<seb128> mdeslaur, upstream broke suspend though
<mdeslaur> seb128: d'oh :)
<didrocks> no, no icon in any case
<seb128> didrocks, well I mean in the dbus-monitor lo
<seb128> log
<didrocks> --version is unknown
<didrocks> seb128: I get touchpad-disabled as well the second time
<didrocks> but with the same int32 -1 and no icon
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> the dconf key change works though
<seb128> didrocks, well seems like the commit I pointed is not there
<seb128> it's still using the old icon names
<seb128> didrocks, I will investigate, thanks
<seb128> mdeslaur, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?h=gnome-3-2&id=4e26618b8a0f037bf2fd682a8c771a760d36beef
<seb128> that's the upstream commit
<seb128> it hits the
<didrocks> seb128: clearly yes :/
<seb128> + if (result == NULL) {
<seb128> + g_warning ("couldn't sleep using UPower: %s",
<seb128> + error->message);
<seb128> where error->message is "The name org.freedesktop.UPower was not provided by any .service files"
<didrocks> seb128: the issue is in our distro-patch
<didrocks> debian/patches/16_use_synchronous_notifications.patch
<chrisccoulson> heh
<didrocks> it's been refreshed, but not changing the icon name
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ! :-)
<seb128> didrocks, it's chrisccoulson's fault!
<chrisccoulson> lol
<didrocks> of course, as usual ;-)
<chrisccoulson> it seems to break with every new version
<glatzor> mvo, http://www.glatzor.de/files/mvo/gpk-update-viewer.png - powered by aptdaemon :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: can we have a big machine which sed the source code, kill kittens, and update the patch? :)
<didrocks> ok, I'll pend the change in the vcs
<cyphermox> seb128: I was looking at making sure the ui could also use NM, but I had to put that aside
<seb128> cyphermox, hey
<cyphermox> seb128: definitely something to look at again for precise
<seb128> cyphermox, is that likely to come back this cycle?
<cyphermox> hey :)
<cyphermox> possibly
<cyphermox> with some rework on nm-applet though I can get rid of what I guess is currently the pain point, menu updates?
<cyphermox> tbh, to me it feels very clumsy to replace something we already have and that largely works with something brand new which doesn't quite have all the features yet
<cyphermox> (not to say I'm against improving a lot on what we currently have, there's lots of room for improvement there)
<mdeslaur> seb128: seems they're connecting to the session bug instead of the system bus...not good.
<mdeslaur> s/bug/bus/
<seb128> mdeslaur, yeah, refresh the upstream bug
<seb128> mdeslaur, I commented there and pinged bastien on #control-center, waiting for a reply from him
<mdeslaur> seb128: cool
<pitti> tkamppeter: for bug 877967, do you know which git repo Tim meant?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877967 in cups "avahi leaks dbus connections to the system bus, breaking other apps depending on them" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877967
<seb128> pitti, http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=cups.git;a=commit;h=a66022689482aa61bce33607d4dbf39a4ab6c341
<seb128> ?
<pitti> seb128: oh, he said "fedorapeople" and "15bd402"
<seb128> pitti, ok, that's their packaging one and the only one I know about
<pitti> seb128: but thanks, that looks like what he meant
<mvo> glatzor: woah, you ROCK
<mvo> glatzor: /me waves bybye to update-manager
<seb128> mvo, why so much hate? update-manager rocks ;-)
<mvo> seb128: you want to maintain it ;) *kidding*
<seb128> lol
<seb128> mvo, what is the new hype? ;-)
<pitti> tkamppeter: nevermind, found it
<mvo> seb128: glatzor made aptdaemon speak packagekit
<pitti> seb128: ah, found http://twaugh.fedorapeople.org/cups-avahi.git/
<mvo> seb128: i.e. the system bus API
<GunnarHj> pitti: Back on kb now... nl_langinfo() is used in the language chooser to get language and country names. Do you possibly know a smooth way to translate those strings into the current language?
<seb128> mvo, nice!
<seb128> pitti, oh, ok
<mvo> seb128: glatzor is a certainly made of awesome!
<pitti> GunnarHj: I think the iso_639 gettext domain has that
 * mvo stops being excited and goes back to (boring) tasks
<pitti> GunnarHj:
<pitti> $ gettext -d iso_639 German; echo; gettext -d iso_639 Russian; echo
<pitti> Deutsch
<pitti> Russisch
<seb128> mvo, seems so ;-)
<GunnarHj> pitti: Excellent, thanks!
<pitti> GunnarHj: it's from the iso-codes package which is a good reference and fairly complete
<pitti> GunnarHj: and we don't strip its translations, so all available translations should be available on any system
<mvo> pitti, GunnarHj: iirc I also had to use iso_639_3 for some stuff, but I might misremembering
<pitti> the main difference are the XML files
<pitti> iso 639 is for the two letter codes ("de"), _3 for the three letter locale codes
<mvo> aha, nice
<mvo> thanks
<mvo> no difference for the gettext stuff then?
<pitti> the translations _should_ not be different, but not sure
<GunnarHj> pitti, mvo: I'll take a closer look. Thanks again.
<pitti> hm, they are, though
<pitti> $ diff -u <(msgunfmt /usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/iso_639.mo) <(msgunfmt /usr/share/locale/de/LC_MESSAGES/iso_639_3.mo)
<pitti> GunnarHj: at least the German translations in _3 are slightly better
<GunnarHj> pitti, mvo: Does _3 cover also the two letter codes?
<pitti> yes
<GunnarHj> Then we'd better use that, I suppose.
<pitti> mvo: are you able to do the verification for bug 874835 with some automatic test case?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 874835 in cups "[master] upgrade problem with libcupsys2: "E:Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874835
<pitti> mvo: I wonder whether to wait with another cups SRU until ^ gets verified, or just upload a followup fix
<mvo> pitti: what other SRU would that be?
<mvo> (phonecall)
<pitti> mvo: for bug 877967
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877967 in cups "avahi leaks dbus connections to the system bus, breaking other apps depending on them" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877967
<pitti> mvo: I can just upload an SRU on top of your's, no problem
<mvo> pitti: i can do the verification as soon as its available on the server
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for the g-s-d icon fix, did you confirm it fixes the empty bubbles?
<didrocks> seb128: not yet, it's built but I'm waiting for some scp to finish on my netbook first
<seb128> didrocks, ok, no worry, let me know I will probably upload once I confirm the suspend bug is fixed with the recent git commit
<seb128> rodrigo_, ^ bastien fixed the regression and I'm backporting the fix
<didrocks> seb128: still 30 minutes of scp and then, on that :)
<kirkland> seb128: sure, i'll take a look
<seb128> kirkland, hey, thanks
<pitti> rodrigo_, seb128: would you mind if we dropped vala-0.14's /ubuntu bzr branch?
<pitti> bzr bd-do doesn't work with .tar.xz
<pitti> and at some point we'll just sync with Debian (as soon as they switch to 0.14 by default)
<seb128> pitti, we will soon have GNOME on .xz so we should rather fix it
<seb128> pitti, upstream will stop other formats this cycle
<pitti> I committed my merge
<seb128> pitti, but I don't especially care for vala no
<seb128> i.e I'm fine dropping the ubuntu vcs
<pitti> well, building the package without bd then
<seb128> pitti, sorry that went a bit confused
<pitti> $ tar xf ../vala-0.14_0.14.0.orig.tar.xz --str=1
<pitti> $ debuild
<pitti> that should do it
<seb128> - that's fine for a vala, plase drop it
<seb128> - but we need to fix .xz for this cycle since that's what GNOME will use ;-)
<pitti> right, understood
<cyphermox> mvo: running into another issue with upgrading a newly-installed natty box to oneiric... today, check-new-release-gtk gives a 404 error :)
<cyphermox> mvo: /ubuntu/dists/oneiric-proposed/main/dist-upgrader-all/0.152.25.1/ReleaseAnnouncement.html 404s; in fact, 0.152.25.1 doesn't exist there... not sure why it goes to look for it in oneiric-proposed either.
<desrt> seb128: so... remember CarlFK from yesterday?
<seb128> desrt, yes
<desrt> do you know what his problem was, in the end?
<seb128> no
<desrt> he typed 'apt-get install dconf'
<seb128> lol
<desrt> can we please fix that already?
<seb128> srly? ;-)
<desrt> yes.
<desrt> srsly.
<seb128> desrt, next time pick a name not already used? ;-)
<kenvandine> lol
<pitti> desrtconf?
<desrt> here's his paste from yesterday that finally made me realise the problem: http://dpaste.de/PcqrQ/
<pitti> what about ð¿conf?
<desrt> pitti: check your utf8, plz :)
<pitti> desrt: check, WFM :)
<desrt> seb128: while you're at it, can you rename epiphany to epiphany-game?
<desrt> you're a DD!  you have these powers!
 * desrt is relatively certain that at least 1000 hours of wasted time has been the result of these two package naming problems
<seb128> desrt, yeah, those name conflicts are annoying
<desrt> (most of that wasted by people playing the epiphany game after accidentally installing it) ;)
<chrisccoulson> ÉuoÉp ?
<desrt> i'm sure apt supports non-ascii package names these days
<mvo> cyphermox: thanks, I check this now
<cyphermox> mvo: thanks
<mvo> cyphermox: thanks, should be fixed now
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I'm uploading the g-s-d update if you don't stop me by saying that the notify-osd fix didn't work ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: still copying for 3 minutes, you should be patient!
<didrocks> seb128: I'm particularly wondering if the icons have not been interverted in the previous patch
<seb128> didrocks, you said half an hour 50 minutes ago ;-)
<didrocks> so better than I test that making this upload
<didrocks> seb128: well, tell that to my networkâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, but yeah I can wait a bit longer
<didrocks> the scp is still not finished
<seb128> didrocks, no hurry take your time, I rather wanted to avoid that you feel like you have to test it if you are busy with other things
<didrocks> (and it's 40 minutes for the record :p)
<seb128> didrocks, but if you want to test it no hurry waiting for you
<didrocks> I prefer to test it, I tried without rebooting
<seb128> ok
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> and I had the impression that the icons are mixed
<didrocks> I built the other way around
<didrocks> and, as it happens a lot, my mouse blockedâ¦
<rodrigo_> seb128, have you already backported the fix for the g-s-d issue?
<seb128> rodrigo_, yes
<seb128> rodrigo_, and I tested it on my netbook, the fix works
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, I pushed if you want to give it a try, didrocks fixed the notify-osd,touchpad issue as well (still needs him to confirm that it works before uploading though)
<rodrigo_> yeah, saw that also, I'll do a test with both
<rodrigo_> patches
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok, just pull and build
<seb128> extra testing is welcome ;-)
<didrocks> the ETA of scp is taking longer longer and longerâ¦ :/
<seb128> didrocks, don't worry there is no hurry
<CarlFK> desrt: morning... something not working.  to see if 'dconf update' is finding my file, I am trying to 'dconf watch' one of the keys I am setting, but I don't see anything when I set that key with gsettings...
<CarlFK> dconf watch /org/gnome/desktop/screensaver; gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.screensaver lock-delay 10
<desrt> CarlFK: dconf is very precise about the meaning of a trailing slash
<desrt>  /x/y/z means "specifically, the key /x/y/z"
<desrt>  /x/y/z/ means "all keys under the directory /x/y/z/"
<desrt> throw a / after screensaver -- should fix it
<CarlFK> desrt: bingo.
<desrt> :)
<CarlFK> ok, so gsettings sets it, watch sees it.  dconf update does not. head /etc/dconf/db/site.d/local.dconf; [org/gnome/desktop/screensaver]; lock-delay=10
<CarlFK> I get errors if I mangle the lines, so it is parsing the file
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, hey, quick question ...
<chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> both huats and I have separately hit a weird issue with flash, wherein we can't click on the flash properties dialog
<huats> indeed
<rickspencer3> so, for example, we can't give flash permissions to access local resources
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, ring a bell at all?
<huats> rickspencer3, that is exactly my issue
<rickspencer3> wait
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, no, i don't even have flash installed
<rickspencer3> huats, did it happen to you with Firefox?
<rickspencer3> it just occurred to me that it happened to me with a webkit webview\
<huats> rickspencer3, FF and chrome
<chrisccoulson> ah
<chrisccoulson> flash bug then ;)
<chrisccoulson> does it have its own window, or is it drawn in the browser window?
<chrisccoulson> i guess i could install flash and try it
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, they try to make it look like it's own window, but I think it's part of hte flash scene
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, this blocks people from using Ubuntu for a lot of business applications
<rickspencer3> ones that require microphones and stuff, for example
<huats> chrisccoulson, if you want I can give access to such an application
<huats> so that you can test it
<chrisccoulson> huats, it's ok, i just installed flash and reproduced it on youtube
<chrisccoulson> hah
<huats> ok !
<chrisccoulson> i got the issue then the flash plugin crashed
<chrisccoulson> ok, i still get the issue even with it running in process
<chrisccoulson> this is really a flash bug
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, may I ask you to follow up on getting that bug logged and such?
<rickspencer3> I'm sure Adobe will get right on ignoring it
<rickspencer3> j/k
<rickspencer3> no offense Adobe
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, i can talk to iamfuzz about that
<rickspencer3> sorry, really
<rickspencer3> thanks chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> i think he will know what to do
<rickspencer3> huats, ^
<huats> :)
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: that could actually be a compiz thing
<rickspencer3> smspillaz, I was wondering about that, tbh
<rickspencer3> but didn't want to say
<mdeslaur> fyi, bug 865672
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 865672 in adobe-flashplugin "Adobe flash settings 'allow-deny' dialogue does not respond" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/865672
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: there's some ... funky interactions that usually have to go on between window managers and embedded windows
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: is there a site I can go to to quickly test?
<rickspencer3> huats, I think if you retest your scenario with Unity 2d, and it doesn't happen, then it's comiz, right smspillaz?
<smspillaz> (not really working this week, but I can quickly triage)
<didrocks> the easiest way to know is to run unity-2d and try there
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: it depends, could be a number of things
<smspillaz> trial and error is never really a good indicator
<huats> smspillaz, you can go to http://visio.objectif-libre.com
<smspillaz> thanks
<huats> it is on my own server
<huats> so give a nick
<huats> and then click on the icon of the webcam
<huats> or the headphone
<rickspencer3> smspillaz, go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGhExssWyE0
<rickspencer3> right click on the youtube video
<rickspencer3> pick settings ...
<smspillaz> happens with metacity too hmm
<rickspencer3> and then click close ...
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, thanks
<smspillaz> hmm
<smspillaz> god I hate flash
<chrisccoulson> me too
<smspillaz> I remember when I implemented a standard properly in compiz flash started randomly crashing
<chrisccoulson> that's why i don't normally have it installed
<smspillaz> I traced it down to the fact that apparantly every other window manager has worked around flash doing the wrong thing
<smspillaz> and nobody ever fixed the stupid behaviour that it was doing
<rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I can still watch Taylor switch videos, so the bug is just "Medium" I think
<smspillaz> wtf
<smspillaz> flash is giving up the input focus as soon as it gets it
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, did you mean Taylor Swift?
<smspillaz> I don't even ....
<rickspencer3> tbh, the fact that I can watch Taylor Swift might be considered a serious bug in Flash by many
<rickspencer3> smspillaz, I have a 12 year old daughter
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you try the g-s-d update?
<rodrigo_> seb128, building and installing now
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: hrm
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: I'll have to put some debugging code into compiz at some point and figure out where the input focus is going. This happened with metacity too though
<seb128> rodrigo_, didrocks says the touchpad osd icons are opposite to the status, he's inverting them, can you confirm it was buggy for you as well?
<rickspencer3> smspillaz, "if str.contains("Taylor Swift") return;" ?
<didrocks> yeah, confirmation would be nice :)
 * didrocks rebuilds once more to ensure
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: kwin too
<rickspencer3> smspillaz, kwin has the bug?
<rickspencer3> woah
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: kwin has tons of bugs
<smspillaz> as does metacity and compiz
<rickspencer3> there must be a work around
<smspillaz> window managers are *hard* to write :p
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: not really, it looks like flash is just doing something stupid here
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, i cloned the Bugs/Importance wiki page, and created a mozilla team one with the extra criteria on - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/Importance
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: its difficult to tell with external debugging tools because of the fact that external clients can't check if another client is getting button events, but at least flash seems to be activating capturing mouse input so that xev cant get it
<chrisccoulson> Critical: Prevents Rick from watching Taylor Swift videos :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, it shows a monitor
<smspillaz> and it also moves the input focus off of its own windows
<smspillaz> so my guess is that it is just doing something stupid
<rodrigo_> seb128, for volume it seems to be ok
<didrocks> rodrigo_: monitor? it's a touchpad with 2 buttons under it
<rodrigo_> ah sorry, touchpad :-)
<rodrigo_> I just read the "OSD icons" part
<didrocks> rodrigo_: is the order right for your from the vcs?
<didrocks> rodrigo_: like, you see the crossed touchpad when it's deactivated?
<smspillaz> rickspencer3: also, flash doesn't really create any new windows afaict when that settings box opens and it captures mouse input just fine when that box isn't open
<rodrigo_> didrocks, not running the git version, but will try later
<didrocks> rodrigo_: ? I meant the packaging version
<seb128> rodrigo_, don't try git, the notify-osd patches are ubuntu specific
<rodrigo_> didrocks, ah
<seb128> rodrigo_, well, with the one you just built does the touchpad,cross-touchpad icons correspond to the right status on,off?
<didrocks> seb128: I confirm that I needed to inverse
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, let's get a confirmation from rodrigo_ that it's not your hardware being weird ;-)
<didrocks> my hardware is nice and shiny!
<seb128> ;-)
<CarlFK> desrt:  ok, so gsettings sets it, watch sees it.  dconf update does not. head /etc/dconf/db/site.d/local.dconf; [org/gnome/desktop/screensaver]; lock-delay=10; I get errors if I mangle the lines, so it is parsing the file.
<rodrigo_> need to log out and in, brb
<desrt> CarlFK: curious.
<seb128> desrt, do you have any clue why d-conf triggers apport bugs like this after login (it doesn't seem to like something lightdm is doing): https://launchpadlibrarian.net/81584264/Stacktrace.txt
<seb128> desrt, hum, I guess it's a permission issue in the lightdm dir
<rodrigo__> didrocks, I see the crossed touchpad when deactivated
<didrocks> rodrigo__: so you get the right order
<didrocks> why isn't it the case here? :/
<didrocks> seb128: I would say, push it like it is then
<didrocks> but I'm really puzzled
<seb128> didrocks, rodrigo_ uses gnome-shell
<seb128> rodrigo_, do you use notify-osd?
<seb128> or gnome-shell?
<rodrigo_> yes, with gnome-shell
<didrocks> oh, you think he didn't?
<didrocks> ah
<didrocks> rodrigo_: bad! :)
<didrocks> rodrigo_: can you try in unity?
<seb128> you are not excercising the same codepath
<didrocks> just to confirm
<didrocks> and not driving me crazy :)
<rodrigo_> seb128, I think it is notify-osd, yes
<rodrigo_> seb128, the big osd icons in the middle of the screen, right?
<seb128> rodrigo_, no
<seb128> rodrigo_, notify-osd is the one in the top right corner
<rodrigo_> seb128, ah, no then
<seb128> rodrigo_, can you try opening an unity guest session from the lightdm login screen to test under unity (or unity-2d)?
<rodrigo_> seb128, yes, sure
<seb128> rodrigo_, thanks
<seb128> I would test if there was a way to bind a keybinding to that action
<seb128> but it's either you have the function key on your keyboard or not and I don't so I can't test
<seb128> didrocks, do you want to upload or should I do it?
<rodrigo_> seb128, didrocks: hhm, I just found out I can't disable the touchpad via a key, I was hitting the the wrong one it seems
<rodrigo_> on gnome-shell, it shows something like a touchpad with a cross
<rodrigo_> on unity nothing
<seb128> weird
<rodrigo_> but the effect is not to activate/deactivate the touchpad
<seb128> what is it?
<rodrigo_> dims the screen
<rodrigo_> didn't see it on gnome-shell because it was already dimmed completely
<CarlFK> desrt: should there be any difference between "sudo gsettings monitor org.gnome.desktop.screensaver" and "sudo dconf watch /org/gnome/desktop/screensaver/"  ?
<seb128> rodrigo_, ok
<rodrigo_> it has a weird sticker though
<desrt> CarlFK: you should not run either of those with sudo
<didrocks> seb128: not quite sure what we sohuld do then :)
<seb128> didrocks, just upload
<didrocks> seb128: ok, doing now
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> we'll see if people argues about inverted icons
<seb128> thanks ping pitti for review
<didrocks> but mine was working fine on natty
<didrocks> so I assume I have the "right order"
<seb128> yeah, chrisccoulson refreshed the notify osd patch several times this cycle
<seb128> so I blame him
<chrisccoulson> lol
<rodrigo_> :)
<didrocks> same for me, I totally blame him
<chrisccoulson> well, i basically rewrote it ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: how dare you! :-)
<seb128> see!!!
<chrisccoulson> so it probably is my fault
<didrocks> well, from the logic, the inversion makes sense
<didrocks> so, let's say I'm logic enough :)
<didrocks> seb128: not subscribing ubuntu-sru on your bug? how a bad guy you are! :-)
<seb128> didrocks, well, I will do that now, I didn't add testcases either
<seb128> didrocks, I'm doing it
<didrocks> thanks! :)
<didrocks> I added the team
<didrocks> pitti: g-s-d uploaded. if you want to confirm if you have touchpad activation/deactivation keys that the icons are now properly shownâ¦
<pitti> didrocks: thanks; unless RAOF or SpammapS get to it before me, I'll re-process SRUs tomorrow morning
<pitti> need to finish up the thing I'm working on, and then run out for TKD
<didrocks> sure, no hurry I guess
<CarlFK> desrt: i get different results with/without sudo - I am guessing it is scoped to the current user?
<desrt> yes.  definitely.
<desrt> i wonder if some dbus security policy is causing the signals from the system bus not to be picked up
<seb128> pitti, sorry for the direct ping but it fixes the previous SRU which broke suspend
<seb128> didrocks, oh btw did you -v to include both changelog entries?
<didrocks> seb128: *ahem* of course
 * didrocks hurry to reject it :)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> didn't see it was a following upload
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, it's to fix regression from the previous one
<seb128> see it's not only you and gedit :p
<seb128> well, which turned to be pygobject bog ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, not for this one, but I got my shared with compiz, cpm, unityâ¦ :-)
<didrocks> share*
<didrocks> right changelog uploaded now.
<didrocks> (said differently: it never happened)
<chrisccoulson> unloading gobject based libraries from a process isn't a clever idea is it?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's probably not no ;-)
<seb128> I'm sure desrt can give you reasons why it's not ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i already know why. it was more of a rhetorical question ;)
<chrisccoulson> i just got bitten by it in firefox
<chrisccoulson> i made it crash by unloading libunity :)
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> unityfox is restartless now, and i made it unload libunity when you disable the addon in the addon manager
<chrisccoulson> i probably should not do that
<CarlFK> desrt: sudo dconf update" updates the system config.   "sudo gsettings set ..." sets the root users config.  "sudo gsettings monitor org.gnome.desktop.screensaver" seems to monitor both system and root, "gsettings monitor..." only monitors the user.
<CarlFK> desrt: and I am getting lost trying to compare this to "dconf watch"  which seems to be different
<pitti> good night everyone!
<didrocks> have a good evening pitti!
<seb128> 'night pitti
<chrisccoulson> mpt - what's your account on bugzilla.mozilla.org?
<mpt> chrisccoulson, mpt postinbox com
<chrisccoulson> mpt - found it, thanks
<chrisccoulson> i just saw someone talking about notifications, so i subscribed you to the bug ;)
<chrisccoulson> mozilla bug 629280
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 629280 in General "Show W3C Desktop Notifications" [Normal,New: ] http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=629280
<CarlFK> desrt: never mind that for now, I think my random use of gsettings is mucking up my debugging efforts.  I think the problem was needing a trailing slash in [org/gnome/settings-daemon/plugins/power/] - I am running install with that, if it works, done is good.
<mpt> chrisccoulson, thanks
<mvo> chrisccoulson: postinbox.com?
<mvo> oh, nevermind
<CarlFK> desrt: should there be a trailing slash in my file: [org/gnome/desktop/screensaver/]  ?
<CarlFK> I thought that worked, then I re-installed, now I am seeing: sudo dconf update; /etc/dconf/db/site.d/local.dconf: ignoring invalid group name: org/gnome/desktop/screensaver/
<desrt> no.
<desrt> group names drop slashes on either side in keyfiles
<CarlFK> desrt: how can I see what the system setting is, as opposed to root's or user's, which if it isn't locked can be different
<desrt> CarlFK: not easily
<CarlFK> swell :)
<jbicha> ideally that would show in dconf-editor, right?
<desrt> i think so
<jbicha> CarlFK: you can file a bug ^ :)
<desrt> but if you want to do it from the GSettings API you need to create a GSettings object, call g_settings_delay() on it then reset the keys you are interested in
<desrt> then you will see the default value without actually having to commit the reset
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys!
<sroecker> is gnome-screensaver responsible for dimming the screen on locking?
<sroecker> ah, seems to be g-s-d now
<tkamppeter> Any USB expert around to have a look into bug 872483?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 872483 in cups "laser printer only prints first job correct" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872483
<chrisccoulson> seb128, did you get your inbox unread count down to zero yet? :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, but not bug today ... not sure if I'm lucky or what
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> chrisccoulson, is your version supposed to fix the issue or just to add debug?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, well, i made a change which might fix the issue, if it's what i think it is
<chrisccoulson> but i'm still not sure
<seb128> how do I check I'm running your version and not the system one to start? ;-)
<seb128> because I think I'm running it but I might not be :p
<seb128> I installed it from tb by selecting the xpi
<seb128> not sure if that takes over the default one?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, what's the version in the addons manager?
<seb128> 0.8.2pre
<chrisccoulson> 0.8.2pre?
<chrisccoulson> that's ok then :)
<seb128> good
<seb128> how do I turn debug on btw? I forgot to do that
<chrisccoulson> in the config editor, you can set "extensions.logging.enabled" to true
<chrisccoulson> that's in the advanced pane of the preferences window
<seb128> got it
<seb128> set to true
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that new version of yours seem to work weirdly, when is it supposed to reset counts?
<seb128> before it did when I was reading my emails
<seb128> like if I had 25 unread bug emails the count was to 25, and was getting down one by one while I was reading them
<seb128> not it seems to flush the box count as soon as I open the box or read the first one
<CarlFK> jbicha: what's the bug?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, that update doesn't work, I want my money back ;-)
<tkamppeter> pitti, still there?
<seb128> tkamppeter, he called it a bit earlier
<tkamppeter> seb128, thanks, found it. It is about the CUPS SRU, I have an additional fix to include.
<CarlFK> desrt: looks like my post install script dconf update is working.  thanks for the help.
<desrt> no problems
<desrt> enjoy :)
<CarlFK> desrt: although this isn't com/canonical/indicator/datetime] custom-time-format='%H:%M:%S'  shouldn't that give me 24h time?
<CarlFK> looking at docs I am thinking I need to set some other key='custom' or something
<desrt> i'm not familiar with those particular settings
<desrt> best to run that by someone else :)
<CarlFK> hey time lords, how do I set the clock to 24h?
<CarlFK> hmm, found the gui... dump, change, dump, diff...
<CarlFK> right.  com.canonical.indicator.datetime time-format '24-hour'
<dobey> heh
<seb128> pedro_, hey
<seb128> pedro_, the janitor is working on Ubuntu bugs, you don't need to bother closing them yourself nowadays
<pedro_> i don't is just an script ;-)
<pedro_> i officially hate sourceforge BTS
<desrt> sourceforge's BTS is real?
<desrt> i always thought it was an elaberate troll
<pedro_> oh well.. libical seems to be using that now
<pedro_> :-/
<CarlFK> "incomplete language support" dialog - what's that about, and how can I prevent it?
<seb128> CarlFK, it's about installing proper support for your locale (i.e dictionnaries, input methods)
<seb128> CarlFK, the CD doesn't have enough space for those
<CarlFK> what packages does it need?
<CarlFK> or, is there some setting so it won't come up.
<seb128> CarlFK, the ui is gnome-language-selector, I'm not sure what calls it
<seb128> it's likely that pitti or mvo would know but it's after their work hours
<seb128> so maybe try tomorrow during european day
<CarlFK> thanks
<desrt> chrisccoulson: hey
<CarlFK> desrt: um.. I kid you not: my settings do not survive a reboot
<desrt> neat!
<CarlFK> install.. dconf update, reboot installer.  new system comes up, screen saver disabled.  don't touch anything!  20 min later, reboot.  now screen saver enabled.
<CarlFK> yes, neat.  exactly the word I was thinking.
<desrt> did you lock down the settings?
<CarlFK> nope
<CarlFK> desrt: um.. sudo dconf update, read /org/gnome/desktop/screensaver/idle-activation-enabled; false.  reboot, read, still false.
<CarlFK> @#@!!
<desrt> CarlFK: it's probably because something in the session set it back to false
<desrt> CarlFK: try locking it down on the system side
<desrt> or do dconf reset /org/gnome/desktop/screensaver/idle-activation-enabled
<desrt> to see if that resets it to your default value
<CarlFK> desrt: k.
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-10-20
<CarlFK> desrt: um... ok, it isn't doing it.  the only thing I changed was adding a = in time-format='24-hour'
<CarlFK> which of course makes no sense.
<smspillaz> urgh
<smspillaz> the post release bug flood is just depressing
<desrt> "YAY COOL FUN HACKING TIME" so rapidly becomes "crap... maintainership sucks."
<TheMuso> /c/c
<smspillaz> desrt: computers suck!
<smspillaz> desrt: its more a case of seeing all these really tricky bugs start creeping in again, and you are left scratching your head thinking "I thought I fixed that"
<desrt> smspillaz: i don't envy anyone who has to hack on compiz :)
<smspillaz> heh
<desrt> smspillaz: speaking of which
<desrt> did you see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvPwWGeSrwI&feature=youtu.be ?
<desrt> some guy in #gtk+ was complaining about it earlier, but it seems much more likely to be a window management bug
<smspillaz> desrt: compiz doesn't move override redirect windows
<desrt> i don't think our menu windows are override redirect?
<smspillaz> that would be bad
<smspillaz> desrt: I'm pretty sure they are, but then again, I've seen deluge do funkier things
<desrt> smspillaz: they're not
<desrt> but...
<smspillaz> uhhh ?
<smspillaz> fix that ?
<desrt> we have some 'grab transfer window' that is, apparently
<desrt> but it's located at -100x-100
<smspillaz> um, menus are supposed to be override redirect
<smspillaz> since you place them yourself
<desrt> *shrug*
<desrt> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/tree/gtk/gtkmenu.c#n2547
<desrt> attributes has an override_redirect field which is most notably not set here
<desrt> (and GDK_WA_NOREDIR would have to be in the attributes mask, which it is not)
<smspillaz> desrt: doesnt the override redirect flag always get set on GTK_POPUP windows ?
<desrt> ball is back in your court =)
<smspillaz> well, no, because honestly, if gtk was not setting the override redirect flag on window that's a pretty huge bug in gtk
<smspillaz> *on menus
<desrt> this isn't a gtk menu
<smspillaz> its something different ?
<desrt> er.  gtk window
<smspillaz> right, I meant menus
<smspillaz> :)
<desrt> this is creating a gdk window directly
<smspillaz> (and if it didn't set the flag, that would possibly be more fail than the way Qt handles it :p)
<smspillaz> desrt: deluge is ?
<smspillaz> O.o
<desrt> no.
<desrt> gtkmenu is
<desrt> the attributes for a gdkwindow are decided from the GdkWindowAttr struct
<desrt> which you can see here...
<smspillaz> oh fun
<desrt> that turns almost directly into an X create window call
<smspillaz> perhaps it sets the override redirect bit a little after it is created ?
<smspillaz> I know that eg, Qt does that
<desrt> erm
<desrt> something is not right here
<smspillaz> hm ?
<desrt> this is a child window
<smspillaz> yeah I saw
<desrt> ah
<desrt> perplexing.
<smspillaz> glad you don't write window managers or toolkits ?
<desrt> oh
<desrt> i think the parent window will be NULL
<desrt> (since this is a menu, after all)
<desrt> and in that case, gdk_window_new creates it as a child of the root window
<smspillaz> right
<smspillaz> but still, menu, y u no override redirect
<desrt> "it's worked for all this time"? :)
<smspillaz> it still doesn't seem right
<smspillaz> since like, every window I've ever dealt with that was a gtk menu has been override redirect
<desrt> i might agree with you from the standpoint of "if i were to implement this for myself..."
<desrt> but the code is there and has presumably been working for years...
<smspillaz> desrt: I'm guessing it does it somewhere later down the line
<desrt> unless someone recently changed it
<smspillaz> or maybe gtkmenu inherents some other class which makes it override redirect
<desrt> gtk doesn't work like that
<desrt> the _realize() signal is what turns GtkWidget into a real X window
<desrt> so the code there speaks for itself
<desrt> and GdkWindow doesn't really do subclassing
<smspillaz> I know
<desrt> in any case, even if it's not override redirect, the bug could still be ours
<smspillaz> try it on another window manager I guess
<desrt> and due to the relative fail of using youtube as a bug reporting medium, it may be some time before we discover the truth :p
<smspillaz> though, I'm pretty certain that we don't move override redirect windows or touch them at all really
<desrt> it was just some random guy popping in to the channel earlier
<desrt> and now he's gone
<smspillaz> except if some plugin explicitly asks to
<smspillaz> desrt: can you reproduce it ?
<desrt> no.
<smspillaz> oh good
<desrt> i gotta run to the train station now for a pickup
<smspillaz> CANTREPRODUCE CLOSED WONTFIX
<desrt> ta
<smspillaz> :)
<smspillaz> have fun
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> CarlFK: what do you want to prevent exactly? the dialog coming up? that should only happen once after a fresh install
<broder> hey pitti. thanks for taking care of that Gtk-2 issue :) i'll be sure to help with testing once it hits proposed
<pitti> oh, still wasn't reviewed?
<pitti> RAOF: ^ if you are still awake, would you mind reviewing my pygobject SRU upload?
<broder> there's no huge rush on my part
<broder> i used it as an excuse for switching the script i was working on over to gtk3 :)
<pitti> broder: hah; feature then!
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> pitti: Sure.  It's a public holiday here, so I've been playing (bisect the mesa commit which breaks) Civ V :).  pygobject in oneiric?
<pitti> RAOF: ah, sorry; I'll ask Colin then once he gets awake
<pitti> RAOF: yes
<pitti> hey didrocks
<RAOF> No problem.  I'm here; I can do it.
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti. How are you?
<pitti> bit tired, didn't sleep well; but that'll pass
<pitti> how about you?
<didrocks> pitti: oh? caught a new flu?
<pitti> didrocks: no, just bad sleep; no idea why :)
<didrocks> pitti: I'm fine, getting cold outside and Julie is sick. Trying to fight to not get it as well :)
<didrocks> ah, try to stop early and relax then! :)
<pitti> didrocks: ah, good luck with that!
<didrocks> heh, let's see how strong I am (or not :p)
<RAOF> pitti: Looks good to me; accepted.
<pitti> RAOF: thanks! enjoy playing Civ :)
<pitti> RAOF: I played the original civ a looooot back then; is it still as good?
<RAOF> I'm 4 commits away from finding the commit which makes the terrain textures all white :)
<pitti> git bi-play
<RAOF> pitti: I like it; it's a significantly different game now.  Particularly Civ V, which went hex-based, added ranged combat, and removed the ability to stack units.
<pitti> RAOF: oh, even in cities?
<RAOF> Even in cities.
<RAOF> But cities have a strong innate defense.
<pitti> uh, that sounds tricky; so you don't get the fortify bonus any more, you have to place them around the cities?
<pitti> ah, so one unit in a city is enough usually?
 * pitti usually placed two Phalanxes, soldiers, or mech infantries in each
<RAOF> 0 units in a city is enough usually :)
<pitti> oh, nice
<pitti> RAOF: in civ 1 I loved that I could extinct an entire opponent party with just my initial settler :)
<RAOF> :)
<RAOF> Things have changed slightly :)
<desrt> RAOF: did you see my questions about grabs?
<RAOF> desrt: A couple of days ago?  Yes.  Did you see my ?Sorry, I don't know enough to help? reply? :)
<RAOF> Presumably the anwser there is a no :)
<desrt> no :)
<desrt> who knows more about X than you?!
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<RAOF> About X input?  Good old Chase is one of the 3 people in the world who understands it  :)
<broder> hmm...i don't actually think XInput adds any different functionality for grabs
<broder> it just extends the idioms you already have to work per-device
<didrocks> good morning rickspencer3
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hey didrocks, pitti
<RAOF> broder: I don't mean the Xinput extension; I mean ?Input devices of all kinds and X?.  Grabs are part of the input semantics.
<RAOF> At least, that's what *I* claim :)
<broder> ah, sure
<broder> i missed a space on my first reading
<RAOF> pitti: Oooh, while I'm playing with Civ V - I sent a mail to the technical board some months ago about enabling floating point texture support in Mesa (which is required for, among other things, many wine games to render properly), but I haven't heard anything about that.
<pitti> RAOF: hm, haven't seen that; do you see it in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/?
<pitti> RAOF: if not, perhaps it was accidentally deleted during moderation; you can send it again, and then I'll moderate it at once
<RAOF> Hm, no - there it is: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-July/000961.html
<RAOF> pitti: I guess I can send it again if that'd be helpful.
<pitti> RAOF: thanks, added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
<RAOF> Ta muchly.
<pitti> ah, *phew* 52/62 proposed updates are kde-l10n
<pitti> so yesterday morning I had 30 updates, today just ten
<pitti> jbicha: hey, how are you?
<pitti> jbicha: shall I accept the gnome-shell upload for -proposed which just adds the cups-pk dep, or do you want to upload a 3.2.1?
<jbicha> pitti: I'm testing the new gnome-shell/mutter now
<pitti> jbicha: ah, thanks
<pitti> jbicha: can you please fold http://launchpadlibrarian.net/83110709/gnome-shell_3.2.0-0ubuntu1_3.2.0-0ubuntu1.1.diff.gz into this?
<jbicha> pitti: yes
<pitti> jbicha: cheers
<jbicha> pitti: actually... if you look at the diff a little closer we already recommend cups-pk-helper
<pitti> oh, right
<jbicha> thanks lintian :)
<pitti> so I wonder what didn't work there -- recommends are installed by default
<pitti> I'll ask on the bug
<pitti> jbicha: so ignore that bit for now, please
<jbicha> pitti: I have attached mutter & gshell branches to bug 878762, I'm not sure about proposing for merge since the oneiric-proposed branches don't exist yet
<jbicha> bug 878672
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 878672 in gnome-shell "Please upgrade gnome-shell and mutter to 3.2.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878672
<pitti> jbicha: yeah, that's a blind spot, too; probably easiest if you just attach the debian.tar.gz/.dsc for sponsoring
<pitti> jbicha: ah, I can build from the branch, too
<Sweetshark> good morning, desktoppers!
<didrocks> good morning Sweetshark
<pitti> hey Sweetshark
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<tkamppeter> pitti, I answered bug 877367.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877367 in gnome-shell "[SRU Oneiric] gnome-shell users get GNOME3's new printer setup tool by default and this tool needs cups-pk-helper" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877367
<pitti> tkamppeter: ah, thanks; that explains how it happened
<tkamppeter> pitti, it can be a developer-only scenario, but on the other side a Depends could make everything more reliable.
<pitti> *nod*
<rodrigo_> morning
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<rodrigo__> hmm, gimpnet is down?
<rodrigo__> hey seb128
<seb128> hey
<seb128> the GNOME irc works for me
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<rodrigo_> hmm, not for me, it doesn't connect
 * rodrigo_ looks
<seb128> lut didrocks, ca va ! et toi ?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<didrocks> seb128: a va :)
<seb128> hey pitti
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> how are you?
<rodrigo_> seb128, Ã§a va, et toi? :)
<seb128> rodrigo_, ca va bien ;-)
<pitti> seb128: still remember? http://www.piware.de/2011/10/happy-birthday-ubuntu/
<seb128> pitti, oh yeah, remember it like if it was yesterday ;-)
<pitti> bah, one tiny bit of pango1.0 delta left, but it'll disappear as soon as we merge plymouth
<ajmitch> pitti: your site doesn't seem to be holding up to the strain of planet ubuntu :)
<pitti> ajmitch: see #u-devel
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> good morning chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I'm fine, thanks, you?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, good thanks
<seb128> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi seb128
<ricotz> pitti, good morning
<ricotz> pitti, i hope you noticed that the pango snapshot is more up2date than the released version
<pitti> hey ricotz
<pitti> ricotz: yeah, I had to add two fixes from git
<pitti> but it's the actual version that's in jhbuild and which 3.2 runs against, etc.
<ricotz> pitti, ok
<ricotz> it is missing some g-i fixes
<pitti> oh, even more?
<ricotz> pitti, i havent looked at it closely, but if it builds for you in the clean chroot it seems fine
<ricotz> pitti, http://git.gnome.org/browse/pango/commit/?id=8de0841234c9e9b07ba5be19833ef40476102952
<ricotz> pitti, seems fine, nvm
<huats> morning
<chrisccoulson> hah - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-15371102
<maxb> Ubuntu has had "Warning, Caps Lock is on" for password boxes for a while. That made sense. But, *post*-Oneiric-release, mine's started showing that about Num Lock too. That seems weird/wrong
<chrisccoulson> maxb, there's already a bug about that, and it's been doing it for ages
<maxb> huh, ok
<maxb> Somehow I've only noticed it in the last 24 hours
<agateau> maxb: that is useful for laptops though
<maxb> agateau: Pretty surprising and unhelpful for desktops, though, where numlock is often on at bootup
<agateau> maxb: I agree
<agateau> we would need a way to figure out whether the attached keyboard has a physical numpad, but I don't think it's possible
<tkamppeter> pitti, so let us do the SRU of bug 877367 simply together with the other one.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877367 in gnome-shell "[SRU Oneiric] gnome-shell users get GNOME3's new printer setup tool by default and this tool needs cups-pk-helper" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877367
<pitti> tkamppeter: right, jbicha will include that
<pitti> he's got branches up for sponsoring
<tkamppeter> pitti, OK, thanks.
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, a new firefox and thunderbird beta to do
 * didrocks takes the hammer for parametize its testsuite :/
 * ogra_ bangs his head against thunderbird ... why oh why are you so user unfriendly :(
<ogra_> chrisccoulson, if i tell TB to only download the mails for the last 30 days, whyi is it downloading all headers for the folder ? is that intentional ?
 * ogra_ watcdhes it downloading header 222738 ... i surely didnt get these many mails this month :)
<ogra_> is it possible to just make TB a remote IMAP frontend without storing all the crap on my disk ?
<hrw> hi
<pitti> brb, server reboot
<didrocks> pitti: do you know why skipIf and skipUnless seems to ignore module unittest variables? (it still get it, if I make a typo for instance, it will tell me the variable isn't set)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, no real idea; perhaps they aren't visible because the test runner only imports the classes?
<hrw> is there a way to make icons in unity alt-tab switcher smaller?
<didrocks> pitti: possibly, I guess it's intiated when the class is declaredâ¦
<didrocks> pitti: it's suprinsingly quite hard to have the same test suite set for 2 modes running (like direct call and dbus service call)
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, jockey's needs to jump through a few hoops to allow that
<seb128> hrw, not that I know, ask DBO when he's around
<ogra_> awesome, now TB just hangs hard eating one of my CPU cores
<seb128> ogra_, the first run is no fun
<didrocks> pitti: I'll have a look at jockey then, I have a quite unpleasant approach then, but if there is no other solutionâ¦
<seb128> until it downloaded everything
<seb128> then it mostly work
<ogra_> seb128, well, why doesnt it respect my settings =
<seb128> ogra_, open a bug upstream?
<ogra_> if it really downloads everything (over hlaf a million mails in my case) then i cant use it
<ogra_> since my disk only has 8G :P
 * ogra_ considers going back to evo, that does at least what i tell it
<ogra_> and it can thread my bugmail which TB apparently is incapable of
<seb128> ok, I switched version to precise to see
<seb128> didrocks, pitti, rodrigo_, others: ^
<seb128> I don't think there is much point to keep tracking oneiric, there was too much outdated lines to be useful to spot srus
<didrocks> seb128: agreed
<pitti> seb128: nice, thanks
<seb128> let's work with bugs and notes on the pad for what is worth a sru
<rodrigo_> seb128, hmm, version of what, sorry?
<seb128> rodrigo_, http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
<rodrigo_> ah ok
<seb128> sorry, "versions" is maybe a stupid name :p
<rodrigo_> mvo, do you know much about apt_pkg python package?
<mvo> rodrigo_: hello, I know stuff about it, yes, what do you want to know in parituclar?
<tkamppeter> pitti, I have uploaded a CUPS SRU for bug 872483 and once doing that also included the SRU for bug 877967, to do two at a time.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 872483 in cups "laser printer only prints first job correct" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/872483
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 877967 in cups "avahi leaks dbus connections to the system bus, breaking other apps depending on them" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877967
<tkamppeter> pitti, the new bug I have also fixed on the Debian BZR.
<pitti> tkamppeter: thanks
<seb128> pitti, is there any reason to not pocket copy the proposed uploads once built on all arch to precise?
<seb128> pitti, i.e if I want to do some copies can I, or should I restrain for a reason?
<seb128> pitti, not really important but it would clean some of the versions noise (or we need to teach versions to check proposed as well but I'm reluctant to double the number of queries it does on launchpad, it's slow enough like that)
<pitti> seb128: I usually do them when moving to -updates, as it avoids a separate step
<pitti> seb128: but if you know that some particular update is good (no regressions, verified), please feel free to copy to precise
<seb128> pitti, well, do we care if GNOME .1 regressed in precise?
<seb128> it's part of usuable unstable work
<seb128> we better go through and get those fixed than reverted
<rodrigo_> pitti, I see several commits from you in ubuntu-system-service, so by any chance do you know about apt_pkg?
<seb128> rodrigo_, did you see that mvo replied asking you what you want to know?
<seb128> rodrigo_, i.e don't ask to ask just ask, it might be easier
<seb128> if somebody knows they will reply ;-)
<rodrigo_> no, didn't see mvo reply, seems I've disconnected
<rodrigo_> mvo, I want to know why setting the values via the API doesn't save them to the /etc/apt/* files
<rodrigo_> mvo, and I don't see anything in the API to force a save
<mvo> rodrigo_: indeed, there is a apt_pkg.Configuration.dump() call, but nothing to actually save to a file
<mvo> rodrigo_: is the use case the system-service bug we talked about the other day
<rodrigo_> mvo, yes
<rodrigo_> ok, so what a useless API :(
<rodrigo_> and now I see why ubuntu-s-s parses and saves the file manually
<rodrigo_> mvo, does the C++ API allow it?
<rodrigo_> mvo, no, doesn't seem to
<mvo> rodrigo_: it only supports the same dump method
<pitti> re
<pitti> ah, seems mvo already answered
<mvo> rodrigo_: you sound a bit frustrated about this :/ is the other parser too fragile to use?
<pitti> rodrigo_: I always just used apt_pkg to read the config and locally change the variables, I never had to write it
<rodrigo_> mvo, what other parser?
<mvo> rodrigo_: the one inside the ubuntu-system-service?
<mvo> rodrigo_: sorry, I haven't looked into that code in a good while
<rodrigo_> mvo, no, it's ok, just that I was looking at the manual parsing/saving and I thought it could be replaced with just a few lines with apt_pkg API
<mvo> rodrigo_: I think it should actually be refactored and put into python-apt proper at some point (or ideally libapt itself)
<rodrigo_> yeah, apt_pkg should have API to save, remove keys
<seb128> pitti, what's the status on bug #857707? you dropped the tag since it fixes some issues but some others are remaining, does that block the -> updates?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 857707 in gtksourceview3 "gedit crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_get_qdata()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857707
<rodrigo_> mvo, ok, I have both bugs fixed, doing some more testing after lunch and will submit  abranch for you to review
<rodrigo_> so yeah, lunch, bbl
 * mvo hugs rodrigo_
<mvo> rodrigo_: thanks a *bunch*
<pitti> seb128: so that's not a regression?
<pitti> seb128: not sure what else it fixes, i. e. whether it's worth moving to -updates; it looked like we'd do another -proposed upload, and release it when it's good
<seb128> hum
<seb128> mterry, hey
<mterry> seb128, hello
<seb128> mterry, is the current gtksourceview3 proposed version creating a regression or fixing bugs?
<seb128> i.e is it better than oneiric and worth moving it updates even if not perfect yet?
<mterry> seb128, fixing bugs
<seb128> the log on the bug is a bit confusing
<seb128> see what pitti just wrote
<mterry> seb128, there are two bugs in that one bug report
<mterry> seb128, this update fixes one of them
<seb128> pitti, ^
<pitti> ok, thanks
<seb128> ok, I would vote for moving it to updates to get the alt-space segfault fixed then
<seb128> mterry, pitti: thanks
<pitti> releaseing, and then reopening
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<kenvandine> yay!  evolution-alarm-notify didn't bring my box to it's knees this morning :)
<cyphermox> good morning
<seb128> mterry, could you check on bug #876371
<seb128> ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 876371 in itstool "please sync itstool 1.1.1-1 from Debian sid main" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876371
<mterry> seb128, k
<seb128> mterry, seem you build it with python in Ubuntu but Debian doesn't ... is python adding features?
<seb128> mterry, thanks
<seb128> hey kenvandine, cyphermox
<kenvandine> hey
<mterry> My favorite thing in all of Ubuntu to do is to sync a package.  Feels like a little piece of win
<cyphermox> hey :)
<seb128> mterry, ;-)
<pitti> mterry: and now that it's a self-service, even more so!
<mterry> pitti, yeah, new syncpackage tool is great
<seb128> pitti, did the new way ever got nailed and announced?
<pitti> I thought it came up several times on the lists now
<seb128> didrocks, kenvandine: do you have any objection to see dee from Debian and drop the ubuntu-desktop vcs?
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I just didn't see a proper announce so I figured some bugs still needed to be nailed
<kenvandine> seb128, not me
<didrocks> seb128: I guess we will need to update most of the time in advance from Debian, isn't it?
<didrocks> not speaking about cherry-pick that we need to do and where bzr merge is handy
<didrocks> (if someone is going to push it and maintain it in debian and ensure we don't wait for a new unity release, I'm fine)
<seb128> didrocks, kenvandine: well, right now we can sync, the question is do we want to use udd for it or keep the ubuntu-desktop vcs (which is debian only)
<tjader> Hello. gnome-terminal seems to be grabbing my mouse sometimes since I updated to 11.10. How should I proceed to try and find out what triggers that?
<didrocks> seb128: I guess we will most of the time needing a new dee before debian does as it's tightly linked to unity
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin!
<GunnarHj> My initial fix of bug 868346 has been significantly improved IMNSHO. :) I hope the changes don't disqualify the branches from being SRUed...
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 868346 in lightdm "Language selector broken in Ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868346
<GunnarHj> robert_ancell seems to be busy with a lot of other lightdm stuff. While awaiting his participation, could the branches possibly be uploaded to bzr and oneiric-proposed?
<kenvandine> seb128, didrocks has a good point... we will probably move ahead quickly
<seb128> didrocks, I can keep the ubuntu-desktop vcs and commit the sync manually to it but I guess next autosync will not land there
<seb128> well, I'm syncing anyway
<seb128> check that the vcs is uptodate next time you work on it
<pitti> hey GunnarHj
<seb128> if we get autosyncs on the way that's not handled
<kenvandine> we can always use the source package branch
<didrocks> seb128: I don't care, if you handle the cherry-pick
<didrocks> I guess kenvandine is now maintaining dee anyway, so it's choice
<seb128> didrocks, well, it's easier ubuntu-desktop which might miss some autosync or udd
<didrocks> its*
<seb128> easier -> either
<chrisccoulson> i've not requested a sync in ages. i'm not even sure the correct way to do that now ;)
<chrisccoulson> i seem to live in my own little mozilla bubble
<seb128> chrisccoulson, do them yourself using syncpackage
<chrisccoulson> ah, ok
<chrisccoulson> seems easy ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, launchpad win an api to do syncs if you have upload rights
<seb128> ;-)
<chrisccoulson> fantastic
<chrisccoulson> not that any packages i work on are ever likely to be sync'd from debian ;)
<pitti> GunnarHj: replied to https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/precise/accountsservice/sorted-option/+merge/79649
<pitti> GunnarHj: aside from my question this is easy enough; but do we need the sorting for SRU?
<pitti> GunnarHj: as for the lightdm one, I'd really like Robert's eyes on that first (and an upstream merge), as I'm not familiar with that code at all
<didrocks> seb128: so the question wasn't if I had any objection about syncing it from debian as you decided to sync, but as long as you or pitti commit to push the changes in debian or handle cherry-picking, I'm fine :)
<seb128> didrocks, well the question was rather about the "drop the vcs", is there any reason to not sync when we have no diff?
<pitti> dee is not in pkg-gnome, so I can't update it in debian
<didrocks> seb128: seeing the number of uploads we are doing, we probably won't keep in sync for long
<seb128> right, that's fine
<didrocks> so I don't see the added value
<seb128> we will have synced once
<seb128> we do the same for GNOME
<seb128> we sync once and then start on the unstable serie
<seb128> just trying to clear the version and merge pages
<didrocks> yeah, just that we can't use udd anymore from the usptream vcs
<seb128> well the vcs is debian dir only
<didrocks> ?
 * didrocks checks
<seb128> not derived from upstream
<seb128> that's why I asked
<didrocks> hum, not there, weird
<seb128> hum
<didrocks> maybe someone changed it, let me look
<GunnarHj> pitti: Replied to the MP. I understand that you want Robert to look at it first. I'll nudge him.
<seb128> my checkout is probably broken :-(
<didrocks> seb128: let me bzr branch
<seb128> didrocks, in fact I updated a local checkout
<seb128> let me do it cleanly again
<didrocks> seb128: ok, just tell me, I bzr branch here and I have full udd source
<seb128> didrocks, ok, seems you are right, sorry about the confusion
<seb128> I asked based on the fact it was debian only
<didrocks> seb128: no worry. I understand better why you wanted to drop it now :)
<seb128> which my old checkout was
<GunnarHj> pitti: Re sorting necessary for SRU ... well, maybe not, but it's so simple... if we always sort I'd just need to add 5 characters (sort + a space) :)
<didrocks> seb128: if we see that we have almost no cherry-pick, yeah, we can drop it
<didrocks> seb128: but for now, I prefer having it here
<seb128> didrocks, well for full source it makes sense to keep the vcs, for debian dir only for small packages it's less obvious and that's why I asked
<didrocks> seb128: totally agree with that :) I get you now why you wanted to drop it :)
<seb128> undoing the question, my mistake for having a broken debian only vcs ;-)
<pitti> GunnarHj: FWIW, if you call perl, all bets wrt. startup time are off; some sorting won't make a difference
<seb128> didrocks, moving on, thanks and sorry for the confusion
<didrocks> seb128: no worry!
<didrocks> (it's fun to see that debian kept your debian/changelog and our packaging for once, nice ;))
<smspillaz> didrocks: should be fixed now
<didrocks> smspillaz: same branch?
<smspillaz> yep
<didrocks> smspillaz: thanks pulling and building
<smspillaz> np
<GunnarHj> pitti: For Precise that Perl script should be replaced by C code. As regards Oneiric, if you accept an SRU for sorting, I'll change the a-s branch to just always sort.
<pitti> GunnarHj: seems fine to me
<pitti> easier to review, and test
<pitti> tkamppeter: you didn't upload cups with -v to include the previous changelog, and the current -proposed version isn't verified yet, so I need to keep that in the queue for a while
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, I'll let you know when it's done.
<seb128> cyphermox, thanks for the evo updates, could you check a bit the bug reports today? I've read several ones now from users who said that the update to Oneiric made them loose emails which is a bit concerning
<seb128> cyphermox, don't worry it's not the sru updates
<seb128> cyphermox, but still... ;-)
<cyphermox> seb128: saw them too
<cyphermox> afaik there were two options: one was that subscription settings may have changed, the other (more scary) would be that POP settings for retaining emails would have changed
 * cyphermox is off to *yet another* upgrade test :)
<seb128> pedro_, stop spamming me!
<rodrigo_> mvo, https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/system-service/fix-aptconf-issues/+merge/79963
 * chrisccoulson adds tb filter to move pedro to /dev/null ;)
<mvo> rodrigo_: thanks a bunch!
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/precise/accountsservice/sorted-option/+merge/79649 updated as we said.
<pitti> GunnarHj: looks nice :)
<pedro_> seb128, If i stop spamming you that means i can  spam rodrigo_ ?
<seb128> pedro_, yes, that's fine
<seb128> pedro_, but joke aside your script seems buggy, what's the logic?
<pedro_> m ok
 * rodrigo_ puts his baseball bat in the baggage for UDS travel
<pedro_> seb128, ask for recheck in Oneiric for all the New bugs with Undecided importance without a comment in the last 3 months
<pedro_> its skipping things with more than 1 task though, like an upstream one or a task in another project
<seb128> hum
<pedro_> rodrigo_, lol
<seb128> that seems a bit aggressive
<seb128> pedro_, is that limited to some components or on the desktop set?
<pedro_> seb128, to the components on desktop-bugs
<seb128> pedro_, well asking is fine but putting to incomplete and low seems over the line
<pedro_> also it's not looking at things tagged as oneiric
<seb128> pedro_, I've seen the titles some bugs are clearly real bugs and still valid
<pedro_> well they shouldn't be new/undecided then
<seb128> it seems buggy to put them incomplete just because we don't cope with triaging
<GunnarHj> pitti: Talking about converting the language-tools scripts to C code, I have started to think that a simple shared C library ('owned' by a-s) would be preferable. No point in adding methods to a-s for e.g. getting the available language options. Any thoughts on that?
<pedro_> seb128, if the bug is still there someone reporter/subscriber/etc can set it back to Confirmed or just put a comment on the report
<pitti> GunnarHj: (in a phone call)
<pedro_> seb128, i've a list for incomplete with responses
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok
<pedro_> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-desktop/incomplete-with-response.html <- they should appear there
<seb128> pedro_, right
<pedro_> then we can review
<jbicha> by the way, I'm on the desktop-bugs team but I don't get email for all the desktop bugs
<jbicha> I mean I get plenty of email but sometimes I wish for more email to ignore... ;)
<rodrigo_> jbicha, you like pain? :)
<CarlFK> pitti or mvo: "incomplete language support" dialog  - what can I do (in a post install script) to prevent that from coming up?  either satisfy it's requirements or suppress it from coming up.
<pitti> CarlFK: as for "satisfy its requirements": apt-get install `check-language-support`
<pitti> I'm not sure how to easily prevent it, that's an update-notifier/mvo question
<mvo> CarlFK: so the new update-manager in precise will honor  "echo "foo install"|dpkg --set-selections "
<pitti> CarlFK: I think you can remove /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/*
<mvo> CarlFK: so instead of creating that note, we could schedule using this meachnism to put it in later
<mvo> note that this is super new and untested
<CarlFK> mvo: "i rarely test, but when I do, I test in production"
<CarlFK> thats closer to the truth than I should admit
<cyphermox> seb128: is the recommends for evolution-indicator worth sru?
<seb128> cyphermox, worth putting in the next SRU but not worth an upload by itself
<cyphermox> no, of course
<seb128> cyphermox, yeah, it's started to be an issue in Oneiric in fact since before we installed those by default
<cyphermox> yup
<pitti> good night everyone!
<rodrigo_> bye pitti
<tremolux> 'night pitti!
<rodrigo_> so, I guess now's the best moment to upgrade to precise and start cherry picking updates, right?
<seb128> 'night pitti
<seb128> rodrigo_, we usually tend to update after UDS, now is a bit early
<rodrigo_> ok
<seb128> rodrigo_, I do merges on debian on oneiric and upload to precise
<seb128> rodrigo_, or said differently I tend to update desktop pieces when I need those
<seb128> but don't touch libc, xorg, the kernel etc before end of UDS
<seb128> so I often get a mixed box with updates desktop and things I work on and the other bits not updated
<rodrigo_> yeah, just wanted to ask for the best time for doing the initial upgrade, and then do the cherry picking from then on
<jbicha> I think most devs wait a bit longer before updating to the dev release, but there's some users on P already
<cyphermox> jbicha: I'd already on P if there had been fewer SRUs to play with :)
<cyphermox> maybe I'll upgrade before UDS, and bring a usb key with oneiric in case things go wrong
<jbicha> I've usually upgraded by now too, I guess I blame part of that on 3.2.1
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ctrl + R ?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: for bash you mean?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah
<chrisccoulson> i never knew it existed before
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: really? how did you live without it? :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i don't know!
<chrisccoulson> i was just using plain old autocomplete ;)
<chrisccoulson> i feel like my life is becoming complete now
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ahah, feeling accomplished? :)
<chrisccoulson> indeed :)
<desrt> chrisccoulson: hey
<desrt> chrisccoulson: remember this thunderbird+GIO business?
<chrisccoulson> hi desrt, how are you?
<desrt> apparently it didn't land in oneiric by default?
<chrisccoulson> hah, it's funny you should mention that
<chrisccoulson> i was just looking at that!
<desrt> chrisccoulson: you're making me look bad in front of my friends!
<chrisccoulson> heh
<desrt> we gonna get an SRU?
<chrisccoulson> desrt, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=696030 fixes the build failure
<chrisccoulson> but it's more complicated than that
<ubot2> Mozilla bug 696030 in Networking "nsGIOProtocolHandler.cpp:241:3: error: âMonitorAutoEnterâ is not a member of âmozillaâ when building with --enable-extensions=gio" [Normal,New: ]
<chrisccoulson> thunderbird opens the file chooser in local mode
<chrisccoulson> which i can fix too ;)
<desrt> is there a working PPA version somewhere, or...?
<chrisccoulson> but then there is another issue i just thought of
<chrisccoulson> say you want to open something over ftp, and you need to supply login credentials for that
<chrisccoulson> you'd need to do it twice
<chrisccoulson> because when the file chooser returns a URI, thunderbird would then go ahead and open it using its own ftp handler
<chrisccoulson> (as gio is only used as a catch-all fallback for protocols that aren't handled by the application)
<desrt> doesn't gio 'mount' the thing?
<desrt> i know it does that with ssh...
<chrisccoulson> desrt, it does
<chrisccoulson> but thunderbird wouldn't use the mount, even after it was mounted by the file chooser
<desrt> oh.
<chrisccoulson> as it already has its own native ftp handler, which would be picked first
<desrt> oh.
<desrt> ugh.
<desrt> i guess your main concerns here are samba and ssh
<desrt> i doubt many people try to use gio to open shares of ftp
<desrt> so i wouldn't let it block you...
<chrisccoulson> desrt, yeah, it would probably be ok for most cases
<chrisccoulson> and thunderbird doesn't have handlers for ssh or smb
<chrisccoulson> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/656c921623a8/netwerk/base/src/nsIOService.cpp#l446
<chrisccoulson> that's where it picks a handler
<desrt> i wonder if you could do some internal trickery to call it gvfsftp:// or something
<desrt> and add/remove the indirection at the barrier to GIO
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that might be a possibility
<desrt> so if the file chooser opens an ftp, GIO will tell you ftp:// but the plugin tells thunderbird gvfsftp://
<desrt> then it'll get thrown back to the plugin to handle it again
<desrt> and you can strip it off before putting it back into gio
<chrisccoulson> yeah, that would probably work ok
<chrisccoulson> i'll have a look at writing some code for that after dinner :)
<desrt> nice
<desrt> no free beer for you until i see an SRU =)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> i'll definitely get this working. i've wanted to for ages
<desrt> not because i'm withholding the reward.. but because i suspect it may impact your performance in completion of the task... :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, <chrisccoulson> thunderbird opens the file chooser in local mode
<seb128> chrisccoulson, firefox as well
<desrt> good afternoon, seb
<desrt> busy packaging 2.31.0 for oneiric?
<seb128> desrt, hey, no
<desrt> if you really cared about p being as stable as possible, you'd expose the code to as much testing as you can!
<seb128> desrt, busy packaging GNOME 3.2.1 for SRU :p
<seb128> desrt, yeah, but seems like ricotz is already packaging it in a ppa
<seb128> desrt, but I will look at what ricotz did and bring it over the official ppa when I've a free slot
<desrt> cool
<desrt> from a packaging standpoint it should be pretty boring, actually
<desrt> i was mostly just trolling for your reaction to the idea of SRUing it
<desrt> troll fail.
<seb128> desrt, oh, yeah, totally, I read the "oneiric" with ppa in mind and I'm fine having a crack ppa with glib 2.31 for oneiric :p
<chrisccoulson> hmmmm, so, i can spend time trying to get chromium builds going again
<chrisccoulson> or i can hack on making gio work properly in thunderbird
<chrisccoulson> which one should i do?
<dobey> make contacts sync work in mutt.
<chrisccoulson> lol
<dobey> or just buy me beer
<chrisccoulson> isn't it your managers responsibility to buy beer?
<chrisccoulson> :)
<seb128> jjardon, hey
<seb128> jjardon, I saw that you commented on the deprecated lib
<seb128> jjardon, we have quite some notes on what is still using gconf or gtk2 in the default install on: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-desktop
<seb128> jjardon, those still have quite a lot users, not likely we will drop them from the CD for the LTS
<jjardon> seb128: yeah, I only put there the status of GNOME modules
<seb128> jjardon, right, that was just for info ;-)
<jjardon> mmm, I think firefox uses gio now (reading the pad)
<seb128> jjardon, it does for the background, not for the proxy
<seb128> chrisccoulson will fix it next cycle though
<jjardon> seb128: and I think the libreoffice dependency on gconf is optional
<seb128> jjardon, well it does for the background and the default application, they overlooked the proxy
<seb128> jjardon, do you know if the libreoffice dependency on gnomevfs is optional as well? our -gnome still depends on it
<seb128> jjardon, well the etherpad is public, feel free to add notes and comments on it, thanks ;-)
<jjardon> seb128: sure ;)
<sroecker> bug 876787
<hallyn> say, does anyone here use the compiz grid placement in unity?  If so, can you tell me if ctrl-alt-keypad9 works for you?
<hallyn> compiz settings manager says it's boudn to the right thing (place top right), but it seems to want to do same as ctrl-alt-KP8
<chrisccoulson> seb128, did you recreate the problem with the indicator in tb yet?
<chrisccoulson> i'm blocking a SRU on this :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, no, works fine so far
<seb128> I can't say if I'm lucky or if your update fixed it ;-)
<seb128> but it has been working since yesterday without out of sync issue
<chrisccoulson> cool. i'll probably upload it in a bit then. i think hooking on to the removed signal is probably a good idea for now anyway
<chrisccoulson> although i'll probably do this differently in precise
<Laney> grr
<Laney> this touchpad stops working bug is annoying
 * RAOF wonders why it doesn't hit him.
<broder> which bug is that?
<broder> sounds familiar...
<RAOF> Something in the syndaemon / synclient / gnome-settings-daemon arena turns the touchpad off on typing and then forgets to turn it back on.
<Laney> i found https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/868400
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 868400 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Synaptics touchpad stops working" [High,Confirmed]
<broder> i saw something a lot like that when i killed and restarted g-s-d
<hggdh> folks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/873702 seems quite serious
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 873702 in libreoffice "some function names in Calc appear in english others in local language (mixed up) " [High,Confirmed]
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-10-21
<pitti> Good morning
<TheMuso> Morning pitti.
<cyphermox> pitti: good morning
<cyphermox> IÂ´m actually surprised at how well I can navigate the interface even when itÂ´s in a language I donÂ´t understand. thank god menus and icons donÂ´t move around too much
<BigWhale> I am not sure that morning before 8am is good. :> Nevertheless, good morning all.
<cyphermox> BigWhale: I share your (pain?)
<cyphermox> BigWhale: havenÂ´t gone to sleep yet
<BigWhale> Ouch :))
<cyphermox> :)
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<rickspencer3> bonjour didrocks, pitti
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti, how are you?
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<pitti> hey rickspencer3
<pitti> didrocks: I'm great, thanks! we had a nice party last night, the official housewarming
<didrocks> oh great! :)
<rickspencer3> pitti, hast du schoene Geschenke gekreigt?
<pitti> rickspencer3: no, we didn't (and didn't expect to, really)
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> pitti, the fact that I wrote a sentence in German did not surprise you at all?
<rickspencer3> you are unflappable
<pitti> rickspencer3: it did actually
<pitti> no body language through IRC :/
<rickspencer3> lol
<pitti> rickspencer3: and I thought you'd be learning French
<rickspencer3> pitti, well, I thought I was, but it keeps coming out German
<pitti> but so much the better, then we can switch #u-desktop to German at last!
<pitti> rickspencer3: don't worry, it's fine :)
<rickspencer3> I think I put in the wrong language CD to listen to at night
<pitti> seb speaks German as well, and didrocks will pick it up in no time
<didrocks> no way :-) I have few remaining bits after 5 years of German at school
<pitti> didrocks: Deutsch ist einfach
<didrocks> pitti: Ich spreche keine Deutsch
<didrocks> I even found latin more accessible even if you have more rules :)
 * RAOF speaks more German than French, but it's been *many* years since he did either!
<didrocks> smslave: got a backtrace for you, this time, the patch compiles, which is better than yesterday to fix that regression :) however, just testing the case it's now supposed to fix, I can get it crashing: bug #879253
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 879253 in compiz "latest patch for -proposed crashes compiz" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879253
<didrocks> waow, with my isp box, you can remove the blu-ray zone locking by using the konami cheat code
<smslave> fun
<smslave> /usr/bin/compiz (core) - Warn: failed to receive ConfigureNotify event on 0x3c03bdf
<smslave> /usr/bin/compiz (core) - Warn: failed to receive ConfigureNotify event on 0x3c03bfb
<smslave> /usr/bin/compiz (core) - Warn: failed to receive ConfigureNotify event on 0x3c03bed
<smslave> I wonder why we're still getting that
<smslave> didrocks: that looks pretty nontrivial. I'll have to have a look into it when I get time to
<smslave> nice catch though
<didrocks> smslave: hum, ok, so we'll leave the regression in oneiric for now
<didrocks> smslave: was pretty trivial to get TBH, it's just testing the area of code you changed :)
<smslave> right, the test plan didn't really cover that case
<didrocks> the test plan should tell then to test with more severity the part you are touching :)
<smslave> sure
<smslave> didrocks: this is a random stab in the dark, because I'm on a certain proprietary OS *cough* so I can concentrate on some uni work I'm doing
<smslave> didrocks: but can you try changing scale.cpp:722 to read
<smslave> foreach (CompWindow *w, cScreen->getWindowPaintList ())
<smslave> I can try it later if you're busy though
<didrocks> smslave: I've already lost 2 hours compiling it when it FTBFS, then, this one, then getting debug symbol and having the stack, so I prefer you take your time once you will have some to look at this!
<smslave> sure
<didrocks> yeah, prepping design tracker for next week
<smslave> ok
<didrocks> (spot 2 issues, writing test casesâ¦)
<smslave> I mean, the only thing that comes to mind right now is that this is a race condition when windows are destroyed, but I'll have to give it another look I guess
<smslave> odd that I've never seen this before though
<didrocks> smslave: the test case is pretty straightforward and I get it 6 times on 6 trial
<didrocks> I guess you just saw the window appearing now and didn't try to click then
<rodrigo_> morning
<smslave> didrocks: yeah
<didrocks> good morning rodrigo_
<rodrigo_> hi didrocks
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
<mvo> hey chrisccoulson
<chrisccoulson> hi mvo didrocks
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks, and you?
<chrisccoulson> yeah, good thanks
<chrisccoulson> just about to get the chromium builds going again
<chrisccoulson> finally!
<rodrigo_> hi chrisccoulson, mvo
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<pitti> good morning mvo
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson
<rodrigo_> hi pitti
<chrisccoulson> hi rodrigo_ and pitti
<mvo> good morning rodrigo_, pitti
<mvo> rodrigo_: your diff from last night looks good for the system-settings stuff, I would like to add a regression test before uploading but I can do that during the merge
<rodrigo_> mvo, ok
<chrisccoulson> it's all seb128's fault ;)
<seb128> hey
<chrisccoulson> hi!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what did I do again?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, nothing. i was just messing around ;)
<chrisccoulson> good morning btw
<seb128> switching to tb? yeah that was a mistake, the software is good but the ui is just crappy :p
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good morning, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm good thanks
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va ?
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, ca va! et toi ?
<didrocks> seb128: Ã§a va :)
<seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: pretty good, thanks!
<pitti> seb128: we had a nice house-warming party yesterday, some 10 people plus tons of pizza, beer, and wine :)
<seb128> waouh, sounds great!
<pitti> seb128: I updated our pygobject/g-i stack in debian and synced
<pitti> seb128: Debian experimental has a gtk+3.0 3.2.1 package which is ready for upload, so we can also merge with that?
<seb128> did you make lot of friends already there, or did you invite neightbors etc?
<pitti> seb128: yesterday we mostly had colleagues from my wife over, plus one of our neighbors
<seb128> pitti, yeah, we should merge glib and gtk, glib should be closed from a sync, gtk maybe a bit less
<pitti> seb128: gtk certainly has lots of DXish stuff, yes
<pitti> seb128: so my current plan is to finish pygobject (need to test 3.2.1 in debian first, as it currently segfaults)
<rodrigo_> hey seb128
<pitti> seb128: then update glib-networking, and I'm also happy to loo at merging/syncing glib
<seb128> hey rodrigo_
<pitti> "look"
<rodrigo_> mvo, do you want me to mark the 2 bugs as SRUs?
<seb128> pitti, ok, feel free to do it, I was planning to have a look to glib,gtk for sru and merges then next week but if you beat me to it I will not complain ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I won't get to GTK today, I think
<mvo> rodrigo_: yeah, please do
<pitti> seb128: but we should wait with that until we have new glib anyway IMHO
<seb128> pitti, I'm still a bit torned between oneiric srus and bug triage and precise work
<seb128> I did syncs yesterday for things that were good to sync
<rodrigo_> mvo, done
<seb128> pitti: what is good is that apparently we can sync things using an orig.tar.xz even if we had the same version using .tar.bz2
<pitti> seb128: sure
<pitti> it's a different file, so it doesn't conflict
<seb128> well I was unsure if you could replace the orig for a same version
<seb128> I never changed the orig format in a revision before ;-)
<pitti> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus are the bugs that were on the oneiric RC radar, but seems none have a solution available righ tnow
<seb128> pitti, the list is quite small
<seb128> pitti, oh btw I did catch robert_ancell yesterday evening
<rickspencer3> seb128, excuse me for interrupting, but I have a quick question about desktop files
<seb128> we will do a mini "SRU sprint" for lightdm on monday
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey, you are always welcome to ask questions or just chat with us ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, if I want to run an app with an environment variable, can I just add it to the exec line of the desktop file?
<rickspencer3> Exec=LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 photobomb
<rickspencer3> ^ didn't work
<seb128> rickspencer3, no
<rickspencer3> unity won't launch the app
<seb128> you should rather have a command with sh -c "...."
<rickspencer3> Exec=sh -c LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 photobomb
<rickspencer3> ?
<seb128> try sh -c "LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 photobomb"
<rickspencer3> yeah!
<rickspencer3> seb128, thanks
<seb128> rickspencer3, yw ;-)
<rickspencer3> I was actually helping someone in #ubutnu-app-devel
<rickspencer3> :)
<seb128> hehe
<pitti> seb128: ah, so Robert will stay up late and you'll get up earlier on Monday?
<seb128> pitti, no, we are both arriving sunday in Orlando
<seb128> pitti, dx sprint next week
<pitti> ah, right
<seb128> pitti, so we will sit together and look at lightdm during one of the hacking slot on monday
<pitti> seb128: âª sprinting by the pool â« â¬
<seb128> shush :p
<seb128> (it's a secret!=
<seb128> working hard!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> (ok, next to the pool with a cocktail, but still working hard :p)
 * pitti pats seb128
<pitti> seb128: oh, btw, didn't you say you would take the Fridays off?
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I skipped this one because there was some stuff I wanted to finish and get ready before travelling
<seb128> but I will probably be off at some point during the afternoon to get ready before travelling
<seb128> i.e I've some shopping to do, maybe getting an haircut, etc
<pitti> get one for Greece as well!
<didrocks> seb128: haircut, you are cheating! copying me :-)
<seb128> :p
<rickspencer3> seb128, didrocks if either of you guys wear glasses, get them in Florida
<rickspencer3> omg eye glasses are expensive in France
<rickspencer3> :)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> rickspencer3, should I get my sun blocker in floride as well? ;-)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: indeed, learnt that quite recently the hard (money) way :/
<rickspencer3> seb128, yes
<rickspencer3> I will be buying tubes of sunblock in FL!
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, apparently sunblocker is expensive in France
<didrocks> rickspencer3 wants to get a new black market job? selling sunblock in France :)
<didrocks> in winter, not sure that will be successfull
<rickspencer3> tres cher
<rickspencer3> je suis grille!
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> :)
<chrisccoulson> when does everyone fly to FL?
<hrw> hi
<hrw> what displays desktop in unity x11 session?
<hrw> cause it looks funny when nothing renders desktop
<didrocks> hey hrw, what do you mean, what shows the desktop icons?
<didrocks> and the wallpaper?
<seb128> didrocks, sunday
<seb128> ups
<seb128> chrisccoulson, sunday
<pitti> chrisccoulson: next Sat
<chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm flying next saturday too
<chrisccoulson> seb128, so, you get 2 weeks of nice weather ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah!
<seb128> pitti, I assigned you bug #874299, basically it's a request to backport http://git.gnome.org/browse/pygobject/commit/?id=611f58b99851328653af4930f188c33eccaa9f6f
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 874299 in pygobject "in gedit external tools' names can not be edited" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874299
<didrocks> people living in the cold and rainy part of Franche really deserve 2 weeks of nice weather sometimes :)
<seb128> ;-)
<didrocks> France*
<didrocks> (just saying :p)
<seb128> didrocks, it's not fair that you get 2 weeks of Florida as well!
<didrocks> seb128: well, I don't get 2 extra slacking days, it's just justice! :)
<seb128> ;-)
<hrw> didrocks: yes, that stuff
<hrw> didrocks: I use setup without any tool drawing desktop and get lot of crap on screen due to that.
<sroecker> hi, is there no "file copy notification" anymore in unity?
<didrocks> hrw: it's nautilus which is drawing it by default
<didrocks> hrw: if you have nothing refreshing the wallpaper, yeah, it will get blurry
<hrw> didrocks: fixing it is not planned? I do not plan to have nautilus installed
<didrocks> hrw: you can ask g-s-d to draw the background
<seb128> ok, I'm out to buy some food and other stuff, be back in an hour
<didrocks> hrw: you need something to draw the background
<didrocks> hrw: there is no "fix" there
<didrocks> or something to fix
<hrw> ok
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, what about people living in the UK, which is the cold and rainy place of europe? ;)
<sroecker> ah, found a bug for that. bug 851606
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 851606 in unity-2d "unity-2d multi-window selector does not show 'file copy' dialog" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851606
<hrw> btw - with systray whitelisting enabled to 'show all' there is no way to click on apps
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: are they using euros? :-)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, no, thankfully!
<chrisccoulson> :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: so you don't need sun! :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<didrocks> hrw: something to ping the dx team about on #ayatana
<hrw> xthx
<pitti> oh, mterry didn't commit his glib upload
<pitti> done now
<pitti> seb128: btw, bzr-builddeb in precise supports .xz; I just synced svn-buildpackage for the same reason
 * pitti installs the two debs from precise
<pitti> seb128: glib> our remaining difference is debian bug 634099 now, which has an open problem wrt. the debug package
<ubot2> Debian bug 634099 in src:glib2.0 "Please transition glib2.0 for multiarch" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/634099
<seb128> re
<seb128> pitti, great
<seb128> 3Â°C there, brrrrr, no icecream on the way back from the supermarket for me
<Laney> does pristine-tar have proper xz support yet?
<seb128> pitti, speaking of glib desrt remained me that we should drop our patch to fallback the gio dir to the old location
<smslave> didrocks: can't reproduce your crash :(
<smslave> opened two terms, minimized, launcher icon -> scale, clicked on the unminimized one and it didn't crash
<smslave> didrocks: however, I think there is a case where if a window is closed while in scale mode it will cause scale to crash in the same way, so maybe my idea might fix that
<pitti> Laney: works fine in git-bp at least
<pitti> seb128: to the non-multiarch path you mean?
<didrocks> smslave: really?
<pitti> (me @ lunch, bbl)
<didrocks> seb128: do you want to test this in a ppa?
<Laney> pitti: it works, but only because it stores the entire file AFAIK
<seb128> pitti, yes
<Laney> i.e. it doesn't do proper deltas for xz yet
<smslave> didrocks: I'll see if I can get it this other way
<didrocks> smslave: that's still weird, it doesn't seem to be hardware dependant
<smslave> it is not hardware dependent
<didrocks> so, if seb128 can confirm, I can push this in a ppa
<smslave> but it is a race condition
<didrocks> hum, ok
<chrisccoulson> cjwatson, so, i can disable the firefox test suite to "fix" this powerpc hang for now
<chrisccoulson> but firefox will definitely *not* work on powerpc
<chrisccoulson> at all ;)
<chrisccoulson> it will just hang on startup like the test suite does
<seb128> didrocks, I'm happy to break my 10v for you ;-)
<smslave> didrocks: weird, don't even see it in that case O.o
<smslave> didrocks: nevertheless, I can add a patch which *might* fix it
<Laney> chrisccoulson: how does iceweasel build for debian? looks like they run some kind of testsuilte there
<chrisccoulson> Laney, what version are they building?
<Laney> 8.0~b3
<chrisccoulson> no idea, but it doesn't work at all here
<Laney> yeah, thought it might be interesting to see if there is a relevant difference
<Laney> i notice some patches relating to tests for example http://patch-tracker.debian.org/package/iceweasel/8.0~b3-2
<smslave> didrocks: ok, at least this approach doesn't break anything
<didrocks> smslave: ensure you run it for a couple of days and let's see together on Monday
<smslave> didrocks: ah, reproduced it in a different way I know what it is now
<didrocks> great :)
<chrisccoulson> Laney, it doesn't look like they run all the tests that we do
<chrisccoulson> still, i'm confused why any of them work
<chrisccoulson> the way the test fails here looks like a fairly fundamental problem with the JS engine, which should break everything really
<chrisccoulson> powerpc is a pain with it only being a tier-3 platform (https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Supported_build_configurations)
<smslave> urgh, weird crap going on
<smslave> bbiab
<aquarius> I'd like to run a particular xmodmap command on my machine on boot, so that it applies to the login screen as well as when logged in. Where should I put it? :)
<seb128> pitti, should I mark https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-boot-speed superseded by https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-desktop-boot-speed ?
<seb128> aquarius, /etc/X11/Xsession.d ?
<chrisccoulson> ooh, me subscribes to that one ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ;-)
<pitti> seb128: yes, looks like duplication
<seb128> pitti, I did it please let me know if that was wrong
<seb128> ok, great
<pitti> thanks
<seb128> yw
<seb128> pitti, I assigned https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-lock-screen to robert_ancell
<seb128> he said he would work on that next cycle, it has to do with lightdm as well
<seb128> mdeslaur, ^ I subscribed you to that as well I hope it's ok
<seb128> mdeslaur, I know how much you love screen locking ;-)
<mdeslaur> seb128: yes, thanks
<aquarius> seb128, that looks like a good place, thanks!
 * aquarius remaps the caps lock key to "r" to fix the broken r key. I need a new laptop.
<ogra_> oh, that will be fun typing on thatr
<seb128> pitti, how do I get https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-vnc to not be on UDS topics?
<pitti> seb128: unset the uds-p
<seb128> pitti, just by deleting the uds-p sprint?
<pitti> yes, can you? I can do it for you if you can't
<seb128> pitti, just did it
<seb128> I put denied
<pitti> great
<seb128> pitti, we pretty much sorted it on the list already, there is no much to discuss
<pitti> oh, we did?
<seb128> pitti, yeah, bryce did testing on various hardware and confirmed it was a nvidia driver issue in old version that got fixed and an fglrx issue still there, he took action to get it escalated to amd
<seb128> pitti, that's pretty much what we can do about it, so not a lot to discuss
<pitti> seb128: I thought there were voices on teh bug report that it also happened on intel
<seb128> pitti, those seem marginal issues
<seb128> pitti, well anyway there might be still issues but it doesn't seem the sort of things that are well suited for an UDS session
<seb128> it rather requires a call for testing and evaluation of the feedback and deciding
<pitti> seb128: correct
<seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, I see that you found the way to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-calendar-integration ;-)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I was afraid that you were trying to walk away from it since you didn't comment or anything on the list ;-)
<chrisccoulson> are you spying on me? ;)
 * rodrigo_ lunch
<seb128> chrisccoulson, you know me ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-mozilla-upgrade-experience, stop blaming it on the package manager
<seb128> it's an issue that we don't lock the session or log out to "apply the updates"
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it's a package manager bug :P
<chrisccoulson> we should be able to update running applications without breaking them
<seb128> yeah, I'm not sure it's possible to solve for the archive out of "locking" the session
<chrisccoulson> if we could do that, then we could have silent security updates ;)
<seb128> never going to happen, for how long does the old version need to keep working?
<seb128> weeks?
<pitti> weeks would render security updates pointless
<pitti> the entire reason why we do the updates is that you can't keep your browser running in the wild any more
<seb128> like the glade to gtkbuilder example you gave is a good example (we could work around this one by keeping the old glade though), but let's say the .ui changed in the new version with the same location
<chrisccoulson> no, it wouldn't be weeks. you'd still get notified after an upgrade to prompt a restart. what i'm saying is that we shouldn't break running applications by doing an upgrade
<chrisccoulson> which upstream already seem to manage ok ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, what you advocate for is having all programs being one blob with static-built-libraries
<pitti> what's that do to with libraries?
<chrisccoulson> it's more complicated than that
<pitti> you can change or remove .so files underneath a running program just fine
<pitti> s/program/process/
<seb128> right
<pitti> firefox might execve() new processes, of course
<chrisccoulson> yeah, those aren't the problem. the problem is anything which isn't mapped in to a programs address space
<seb128> the interface glade,.ui is closer from real issues
<seb128> or images
<chrisccoulson> eg, xul files, html, js, xml etc
<seb128> or documentation
<chrisccoulson> and glade/ui files, as seb128 mentioned
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well I'm sure we can solve it case by case, but it would take years to fix every program in the archive
<seb128> I'm not convinced it's the best use of our efforts
<chrisccoulson> the way that upstream installers work is that they don't remove the old copy until you restart the app
<seb128> we should just "lock" the session while applying the updates
<pitti> we could apply updates on logout/shutdown
<pitti> but then some people would never do them
<pitti> and that would be annoying if you are in a hurry
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it means system tools have to watch users process, seems a can of issues sort of situation
<pitti> so I never liked that much
<pitti> chrisccoulson: what was the original problem, OOI?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - with firefox?
<pitti> my firefox seldomly breaks when I installed a security update, it just keeps nagging me about "restart me!" (which is fine, I think)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the other issue is what happens if one user restart firefox and another user is still logged in with the old version running? when do you overwrite the files? does the restart for the 1 user get back the old version?
<chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, it breaks if you try to open, say, the preferences window. ie, anything which requires it to read more resources
<pitti> well, at least it tells you so
<pitti> which is already more than we do in any other program
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm not sure how to handle the multi-user case. i don't even think upstream handle that well. but then, i think that's an edge case for most devices
<chrisccoulson> these are mozilla's plans for updates btw - https://wiki.mozilla.org/Background_Updates
<chrisccoulson> their current update system sucks actually, as it checks/applies updates at startup
<chrisccoulson> i think the proposal there is similar to the chrome model on windows
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well I think 1- we will never manage to make it work accross the archive, so by see it's not a package manager issue, 2- the cost is way higher than the benefit seeing the number of things that don't work on our desktop
<seb128> it's a very hard problem ;-)
<chrisccoulson> indeed
<chrisccoulson> but it sucks that people experience this every 6 weeks
<pitti> 2- full ack
<chrisccoulson> and we get bug reports from it too
<chrisccoulson> well, actually, not anymore
<pitti> 1- it's also not a problem for most other packages in a stable releases, as security updates don't change the interface, glade files, library structre, etc.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, then we should do a better job telling them that once the update is applied their browser *needs* to be restarted
<chrisccoulson> as i blocked apport from reporting bugs ;)
<pitti> the problem only really hits firefox because it's a combined features/security/libraries/infrastructure files update
<seb128> well, it hits users on cross Ubuntu version dist-upgrades
<seb128> but I think we should really message that those require a restart
<pitti> well, yes, but in that case really all bets are off
<pitti> we can't possibly keep the entire old system around
<jdstrand> my wife hits this all the time
<seb128> jdstrand, firefox?
<seb128> jdstrand, or in other cases?
<jdstrand> "Jamie, firefox is broken!"
<jdstrand> firefox
<seb128> we should not display a banner
<jdstrand> "Jamie: please restart it"
<kenvandine> mine too, but it was usually the compiz stacking problem in natty :)
<seb128> we should display on top of the firefox screen "click there to restart"
<jdstrand> "Oh, ok, it is working again. Thanks!"
<kenvandine> firefox doesn't work really meant she couldn't click on anything :)
<jdstrand> heh
<kenvandine> perhaps the requred restart button should prevent you from doing anything else until you restart firefox
<didrocks> jdstrand: sounds like a "The IT Crow" answer :)
<seb128> or we should just make update-manager say "your browser is about to be updated, please step away from it we will apply the update and restart it for you"
<jdstrand> heh
<seb128> pitti, should we deny https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-remove-safely-remove for UDS or has the situation changed and it's worth discussing?
<seb128> pitti, I've updated the whiteboard with notes from when we added the option saying why we needed both
<pitti> seb128: thanks; indeed, this hasn't changed; I un-uds-p-ed it
<pitti> and set definition to obsolete
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> Ubuntu GNOME Shell Remix: http://linux.softpedia.com/progDownload/Ubuntu-GNOME-Shell-Remix-Download-74925.html
<didrocks> would be interesting to know what's in it and ensure there is no malwareâ¦
<seb128> didrocks, those people should be hit with a cluestick until they understand it would benefit everybody if they were working with Ubuntu for doing a such remix ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: cluestick? always the soft method, isn't it? :-)
<seb128> indeed ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, could you check if bug #878859 is your touchpad issue?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 878859 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome applications grab mouse input when the menu bar is shift-clicked while gnome-settings-daemon is running" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878859
<didrocks> seb128: sure, let's see
<seb128> can't confirm the bug there but since you have it sometimes on your config...
<didrocks> seb128: I doubt about it as my mouse is most of the time in the middle of the screen once blocked
<seb128> ok
<seb128> didrocks, well maybe shift is an hint, do you keyboard navigate menus?
<seb128> though that wouldn't be a shift action
<seb128> well still nfc about those people about touchpad lock issues, it never happened there
<didrocks> seb128: no, not in that case
<didrocks> seb128: I just tried, even with deactive trackpad while typing
<seb128> didrocks, ok, it was worth checking, thanks
<didrocks> no effect
<didrocks> yw
<didrocks> never happens on my laptop, quite often on my netbook
<seb128> didrocks, one of those time when it happens could you try to sudo evtest on a vt?
<didrocks> seb128: sure, will do next time
<seb128> then maybe try to kill running softwares and see if that unblock it
<didrocks> seb128: I tried that
<didrocks> no clue
<seb128> gnome-settings-daemon, syndaemon, unity, dunno what else is running ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<seb128> didrocks, ok
<seb128> didrocks, but you never got it without the "disable while typing"?
<didrocks> seb128: right now, I didn't, but I don't use my netbook extensively
<didrocks> seb128: will probably have a better feedback on Sunday
<didrocks> if I have crisis on plane :)
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> didrocks, don't freak out about the SRU bugs closing for your GNOME updates, I pocket copied most to precise to clean version and get a bit extra testing
<seb128> didrocks, they didn't move to -updates before the week delay by error ;-)
<seb128> cyphermox, ^ same for the evo ones
<seb128> ricotz, there?
<seb128> ricotz, how is glib 2.31 working for you? do you have it in a ppa somewhere?
<ricotz> seb128, hi, works fine
<ricotz> you can find it here https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/staging/+packages
<ricotz> there arent any real changes, besides symbols update and *-doc.install changes
<seb128> desrt, hey, there? do you recommend running glib 2.31.0 or git snapshots for testing?
<desrt> 'testing'?
<desrt> like, for personal use or for what goes into the archive for p-?
<seb128> desrt, if I and other want to run 2.31 until UDS to see how it works on our oneiric laptops
<desrt> oh. either is fine
<desrt> not too much changes on master since
<desrt> i'd go with 2.31.0 i guess
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<desrt> all problems should be fixed thanks to rico =)
<seb128> ricotz, is there any chance you put a 2.31 somewhere which is not a daily build and reply on the desktop list to the GNOME version discussion with a pointer to it?
<seb128> i.e gnome3 ppa for precise would do
<desrt> 'precise' is a terrible release name
<desrt> completely fails to roll off the tongue
<seb128> ;-)
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey
<desrt> oneiric wasn't great either.  'natty' was awesome.
<ogra_> desrt, you need chewing gum
<ogra_> that makes it easier
<desrt> that sounds rather imprecise...
<ogra_> exactemente :)
<ricotz> seb128, can do, but probably later, i guess you want a oneiric and precise upload then
<seb128> Sweetshark, pitti: so some people pointed that libreoffice configure.in has a --disable-gnomevfs
<pitti> oooh! so, away with the build dep?
<seb128> well, I'm not sure if that would regress some functionalities
<seb128> it's pointed on https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41678
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 41678 in Libreoffice "Use GSetting instead GConf" [Enhancement,New: ]
<seb128> it has flags for gconf and gnomevfs
<seb128> not sure what would be different or miss if we build without those
<seb128> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=libreoffice.git;a=blob;f=libreoffice.spec;h=5ed5443d004ae9382f6a88751b8d1f54edb2fea1;hb=HEAD
<seb128> Sweetshark, pitti: so fedora builds with "--disable-gnome-vfs --enable-gio"
<seb128> seems good ;-)
<pitti> *want* *want* *want*
<seb128> yeah, same here
<seb128> ;-)
<Sweetshark> seb128, pitti: I still have a disabled gvfs patch lying around, which I have to figure out (what it did, if it was obsolete or need to be reproduced)
<Sweetshark> seb128, pitti:km will do
<seb128> Sweetshark, can we just steal the fedora patch if they have one?
<Sweetshark> seb128, pitti:k, will do ;)
 * pitti hugs Sweetshark
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks!
<pitti> Sweetshark: on the pro side, accessing files on samba and what not will actually work then :)
<Sweetshark> seb128: IIRC no need to steal it is upstream already, but I did get around to check what that means depwise for us. But since you two hop around like happy bunnys, I gues it makes stuff simpler ;)
<seb128> Sweetshark, well I don't know much what it does, just that fedora is building with those option so they probably tested them and it probably works for them
<seb128> the --enable-gio is in the upstream gio configure.in
<seb128> so that's not a distropatch it's an upstream option
<Sweetshark> seb128: yeah, I know
<seb128> Sweetshark, well the other day you told me it would require non trivial work to drop gnome-vfs and switch to gio, but anyway if we can do it great ;-)
<seb128> jjardon, hey, gnome-media being deprecated (I think it's you who wrote that on the wiki?), we still use gnome-sound-recorder
<Sweetshark> seb128: no, I said caolan (aka redhat) is working on it upstream and I dont know the status ;)
<chrisccoulson> g'ah, i officially hate chromium already
<seb128> Sweetshark, ok, seems like we should just turn the flags early on for next cycle and see how it goes
<gentoo_drummer> I used the command line installation since i hate unity and installed xfce. the system is incredible fast, even quicker than my debian and i was wondering if someone could tell me how can i get the default ubuntu font rendering?
<seb128> gentoo_drummer, try #ubuntu
<gentoo_drummer> overpopulated
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep, thats already on my blueprint.
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
 * kenvandine really needs to start looking at blueprints
<seb128> gentoo_drummer, well we don't take trolls and it's not an user support channel
<gentoo_drummer> any of you guys used the command line installation before?
<gentoo_drummer> just need to get a clean base system with xfce and ubuntu font rendering
<gentoo_drummer> that would be fantastic..
<seb128> gentoo_drummer, wrong channel
<seb128> try #ubuntu
<gentoo_drummer> doesnt this fall into the desktop dept.
<gentoo_drummer> ?
<seb128> no
<seb128> desktop is unity that you hate
<seb128> well that channel is
<seb128> try #ubuntu or #xubuntu for xfce
<cyphermox> seb128: ok, thanks
<seb128> "   * dh_installdeb: Support debian/package.maintscript files,
<seb128>      which can contain dpkg-maintscript-helper commands. This can be used
<seb128>      to automate moving or removing conffiles, or anything added to
<seb128>      dpkg-maintscript-helper later on. Closes: #574443
<seb128>      (Thanks, Colin Watson)"
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> i.e
<seb128> http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome/desktop/unstable/gnome-screensaver/debian/gnome-screensaver.maintscript?view=markup&pathrev=30792
<seb128> like it ;-)*
<seb128> not having to deal with snippet in different pre,post maintainer scripts
<seb128> just dumping a line in a file
<chrisccoulson> nice
<chrisccoulson> it's a shame my packaging still needs to support lucid ;)
<didrocks> seb128: hum, is that new? I don't see the difference from what we have for a year?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, we had dpkg-maintscript-helper, but we still had to add the correct snippets to each maintainer script to handle all cases
<seb128> didrocks, well what I was doing until now is adding those sort of snippets:
<seb128> if [ "$1" = configure ] && dpkg --compare-versions
<seb128>  dpkg-mainscript-helper...
<seb128> fi
<seb128> in the 3 to 5 maintainer scripts
<didrocks> hum, it was just if [ "$1" = configure ] && dpkg-mainscript-helper â¦ <verions>â¦ fi
<didrocks> but yeah, we won 3 lines for configure check then, nice :)
<seb128> right, in 3 or 5 files
<didrocks> ah
<seb128> which you had to create and remember which ones
<didrocks> ok, got it
<didrocks> it's a standard location now
<seb128> it's 1 file now
<didrocks> that's nice :)
<seb128> which deals with all the right pre,post* to copy the snippet in
<seb128> yeah ;-)
<seb128> especially when like me you never remember which pre,post scripts you need to patch :p
<seb128> I did tend to just put it in the postinst but that's buggy ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: what, you didn't put in your bookmark http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling ? ;)
<seb128> http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling suggests it was "only" 3 to patch
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, I did, I can delete that bookmark now :p
<chrisccoulson> i basically copied the entire snippets directly from dpkg-maintscript-helper for firefox ;)
<chrisccoulson> which sucks
<didrocks> yeah it started in maverick
<didrocks> no luck for chrisccoulson :)
<seb128> hehe, no luck tomorrow either for chrisccoulson with the 5 years of desktop support
<chrisccoulson> yeah, my job just got harder ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: but you love it!
<chrisccoulson> of course :)
<chrisccoulson> easy is boring
<chrisccoulson> ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: on the other way, we can say "you just support one version of firefox" after all
<didrocks> slacker! :)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<seb128> yeah, "one source", "one version"
<seb128> that's easy and boring ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, and your upstream is a solid one which does testing ;-)
<didrocks> what, that exists? :-)
<didrocks> nobody warned me!
<seb128> yeah, me neither!
<rickspencer3> 5 year desktop LTS
<rickspencer3> what?
<rickspencer3> j/k
<didrocks> rickspencer3: sure you never heard about it! :-)
<rickspencer3> heard about what?
<didrocks> (this is where the boss normally says "oh btw, you're fired" ;))
<rickspencer3> didrocks, seriously, except for chrisccoulson, this is a good thing
<rickspencer3> didrocks, lol
<rickspencer3> never!
<rickspencer3> I would fire myself first
<didrocks> rickspencer3: who cares about chrisccoulson! :)
<ricotz> seb128, glib uploaded, https://launchpad.net/~gnome3-team/+archive/gnome3/+packages?field.name_filter=glib2.0&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=
<rickspencer3> hey
<didrocks> more seriously, yeah, it's a huge selling point for the LTS :)
<ricotz> seb128, perhaps someone could bump the build priorities
<seb128> pitti, ^
<chrisccoulson> lol
<chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3!
<rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
<rickspencer3> I'm feeling very nostalgic for some reason
<rickspencer3> remembering when you first joined the team
<rickspencer3> it seems like only 2 years ago
<pitti> seb128, ricotz: done
<seb128> pitti, danke
<ricotz> pitti, thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, it wasn't even 2 years ago ;)
 * pitti dances around happily, got a pygobject bug fixed after 4 h of debugging
<chrisccoulson> i think it was march wasn't it?
<rickspencer3> pitti, congrats!
<seb128> pitti, \o/ what was it? the debian segfault bug?
<pitti> seb128: no, unrelated; SystemError when using gdbus-codegen generated libraries
<seb128> ok
<pitti> seb128: the debian segfault thing looks fishy to me, also happens with old pygobject
<pitti> seb128: could be my sid chroot which is busted
<tshirtman> plop
<tshirtman> if i may ask for some support
<seb128> hi tshirtman
<didrocks> tshirtman: no really support, but bug in your case :)
<tshirtman> hi seb128
<seb128> you should try #ubuntu for support
<tshirtman> well, i think it's a bug, yeah
<seb128> go ahead, describe your issue ;-)
<tshirtman> i was on natty, and using nvidia driver, my card is one of the blacklisted ones
<tshirtman> so no unity 3D for me
<tshirtman> i upgraded to oneiric recently, and still blacklisted, so i tried to uninstall nvidia to use Nouveau
<tshirtman> because nouveau is enought on my other config
<tshirtman> but even removing everything in jokey, i was still using nvidia driver
<tshirtman> i removed my xorg.conf, no luck
<didrocks> so it seems disabling the nvidia driver in jockey isn't the same that starting a live cd on nouveau, isn't it?
<tshirtman> (rebooted every times, of course)
 * ogra_ hand tshirtman a jacket ... its cold dude !
<tshirtman> and yeah, with a live CD, and using /etc/environment, i can force unity, and use it
<tshirtman> althought it's a bit slow, i really prefer the 3D unity
<tshirtman> ogra_: thanks but no thanks ;)
<ogra_> :)
<didrocks> pitti: do you have any idea what can be different between a new livecd setup and removing the nvidia driver in jockey? ^
<tshirtman> now i removed all installed nvidia packages, and still unity won't start, bitchin' i miss some GLX extension
<tshirtman> (gnome-shell either, it kicks the classic version in)
<seb128> tshirtman, what is your libGL alternative on?
<tshirtman> so i think something is still different than with live CD
<seb128> update-alternatives --list i386-linux-gnu_gl_conf
<seb128> i386 or whatever your arch is
<tshirtman> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/ld.so.conf
<seb128> dpkg -S /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/ld.so.conf
<tshirtman> output: libgl1-mesa-glx:i386: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/ld.so.conf
<pitti> seb128, didrocks: safe travels!
 * pitti waves good bye for the weekend, 'nuff for today
<mterry> pitti, so I was looking at syncing pilot-link, which we have been keeping a delta for to switch a Breaks line from udev (<< 0.136-1) to udev (<< 136-1) because before 141-1, we used different numbering.  Since lucid has udev 151, I'm going to drop that delta and sync; just wanted to double confirm that that logic is sound.
<seb128> pitti, thanks, have a good w.e!
<mterry> pitti, oh, nm.  good bye!  :)
<seb128> tshirtman, dpkg -S libGL
<pitti> mterry: ack
<didrocks> thanks pitti! enjoy your week-end!
<mterry> pitti, thanks!
<tshirtman> seb128: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/496146/
<seb128> tshirtman, try removing the ia32-libs?
<tshirtman> sudo apt-get remove ia32-libs ?
<seb128> it's weird that you had i386-linux before
<tshirtman> ia32-libs-multiarch:i386 too?
<seb128> but you seems to be on x64
<seb128> didrocks, ^ help
<tshirtman> yeah, i think i am on x64
<seb128> or somebody on x68
<seb128> x64
<didrocks> I'm not on x64
<tshirtman> so i remove, and reboot to see if it changes something?
<seb128> well, I would try that
<tshirtman> ok
<didrocks> seb128: I guess we can steal a dx machine next week as they are almost all on x64 & nvidia
<seb128> is anyone on x64 to run "update-alternatives --list i386-linux-gnu_gl_conf"
<seb128> ups
<seb128> ignore that
<seb128> there is i386 in that alternative name
<didrocks> seb128: right, /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/mesa/ld.so.conf
<seb128> tshirtman, could you open a bug with ubuntu-bug xorg-server?
<didrocks> but why it's using i386 one?
<seb128> that should add your Xorg.0.log etc
<didrocks> shoudln't it be nouveau on amd64?
<didrocks> (well, the amd64 version of nouveau, I mean)
<seb128> didrocks, dunno how multiarch works
<Amaranth> tshirtman: Changes to libGL should not require restarting your computer or even X
<seb128> we need somebody who has a 64bit install to do a ls /etc/alternatvies/*gl**
<Amaranth> So long as the DDX (xorg driver) initialized correctly
<tshirtman> back, no changes
<seb128> ls /etc/alternatives/*gl*
<seb128> tshirtman, open a bug using "ubuntu-bug xorg-server"
<didrocks> tshirtman: I'm all for requisiting a dx machine next week :)
<Amaranth> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/715240/
<seb128> ups
<Amaranth> (most people won't have the egl line)
<seb128> tshirtman, open a bug using "ubuntu-bug xserver-common" I guess
<Amaranth> I don't think, anyway
<tshirtman> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/496149/
<tshirtman> there is some 64 in this
<tshirtman> should i try to change with update-alternatives?
<seb128> tshirtman, can you pastebin your /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
<tshirtman> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/496150/
<tshirtman> :)
<tshirtman> have a nice read :D
<Amaranth> tshirtman: You know about pastebinit, right?
<tshirtman> nope :)
<Amaranth> You can just run cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | pastebinit and it'll give you a link to the pastebin
<tshirtman> nice :)
<didrocks> Amaranth: even pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log
<Amaranth> didrocks: TIL
<tshirtman> useless use of cat :P
<Amaranth> [    57.613] (EE) [drm] failed to open device
<didrocks> that's how you end up cat <file> | grep ;)
<Amaranth> tshirtman: Do you still have the nvidia kernel module?
<CarlFK> pitti: check-language-support doesn't return anything, but I am still getting the 'incomplete language support' message
<Amaranth> didrocks: I still do that :/
<didrocks> Amaranth: come on! :-)
<tshirtman> nope, i removed everything nvidia-*
<Amaranth> tshirtman: lsmod | grep nvidia
<Amaranth> Also I guess use lsmod to make sure nouveau is loaded
<tshirtman> my friend on 64bit have the same result as me on the ls /etc/alternatives... except the _egl one, that he has not
<Amaranth> Because it's failing to find /dev/dri/card0 or a similar device
<tshirtman> Amaranth: already dif both of that, no nvidia, and a few nouveau
<Amaranth> afaik you only get the EGL one if you've installed something that provides libegl1-x11
<Amaranth> so most people wouldn't have that, since most people aren't doing GLES stuff on their desktop
<tshirtman> well, i probably installed that to compile openglES stuff
<tshirtman> well, i'm using things that use it
<tshirtman> and that i need to compile
<Amaranth> alright, so the root of our problem here is that you either don't have a /dev/dri/card0 (bug in the nouveau kernel module or udev) or it has the wrong permissions (bug in udev)
<Amaranth> no drm means no 3D
<tshirtman> nothing in /dev/dri
<seb128> tshirtman, http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/TroubleShooting#Xorg_fails_to_start_with_.22.28EE.29_.5Bdrm.5D_failed_to_open_device.22
<seb128> not sure if that's useful
<Amaranth> it's going to be one of those first two
<Amaranth> perhaps pastebin your dmesg
<tshirtman> Amaranth: i think i had a message like "removing all drm/dri" when i removed nvidia-*
<tshirtman> or was it kms?
<tshirtman> >_< not sure anymore
<tshirtman> oh, ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg think i installed the nvidia drivers manually in the past, that may be true :$
<tshirtman> damn you "/etc/modprobe.d/nvidia-installer-disable-nouveau.conf"!
<ricotz> seb128, are you able to restart this build? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cogl/1.8.0-1/+build/2851052
<tshirtman> ok, it was this file
<tshirtman> so thanks for ubuntu-bug for being clever
<tshirtman> to*
<Amaranth> That's a pretty impressive find
<tshirtman> not sure i have to file a bug, i had installed nvidia module manually long ago
<Amaranth> tshirtman: So for that one you'll probably want to just restart after removing that file
<Amaranth> tshirtman: Also maybe reinstall libgl1-mesa-dri
<tshirtman> well, it pointed to the /var/log/nvidia-installer.log
<tshirtman> and in this the nvidia installed kindly explained about that modprob file
<tshirtman> so i have unity running, quite slowly, but it run :)
<tshirtman> s
<seb128> ricotz, no, I'm not buildd admin
<tshirtman> and yeah, Amaranth i just had to reboot after rm of the guy
<Amaranth> tshirtman: So it's working now?
<tshirtman> yep
<ricotz> seb128, ok, np
<Amaranth> Guess that was a support thing rather than a bug thing after all ;)
<bjsnider> tshirtman, you installed nvidia using the nvidia-installer?
<tshirtman> yeah, sorry for the mess
<tshirtman> bjsnider: yeah
<tshirtman> i don't remenber either why and when, it's been some time
<Amaranth> bjsnider: Didn't have those fancy SRU nvidia updates back then
<bjsnider> you woul have to run the .run file again with --uninstall
<bjsnider> to completely remove it
<tshirtman> damn, i have to find again :)
<bjsnider> i think that's the flag
<bjsnider> we've had x-updates since lucid and i had teh vdpau ppa since before that
<tshirtman> is it possible to tell when a system was installed? it may be 2 years old
<tshirtman> ok, thanks for all anyway :)
<broder> hmm...are there concrete plans for how the extended hw support in precise is going to work? is it just kernel backports? kernel and mesa/ddx/etc. backports?
<hallyn> is there supposed to be a way to get the indicator-messages to support twitter?  am I just blind, or is that not yet supported?
<kenvandine> hallyn, gwibber uses indicator-messages
<hallyn> oh, i see, so i should use that.  thanks
<kenvandine> np
<hallyn> (i get confused how it all fits together :)
<kenvandine> :)
<hallyn> but I"m liking it
<kenvandine> great
<ogra_> kenvandine, is there a howto somewhere, ho to add new apps to the indicator ? i just switched to sylpheed and would like to have some way to use the panel icon
<kenvandine> yeah, what language is sylpheed written in?
<ogra_> well, its the predecessor of claws
<ogra_> C i would guess
<ogra_> it also offers to execute a custom command if mails arrive
<ogra_> (curenty i have a notify-send in there to get at least something while the app is minimized)
<kenvandine> there isn't a command for it, you would use libindicate
<kenvandine> i thought there were examples on the wiki, but not finding them
<ogra_> well, if there are, i will find them, its not urgent or something
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> there are API docs on developer.ubuntu.com for libindicate
<kenvandine> and we have lots of examples in the archive
<kenvandine> :)
<ogra_> k, thanks ! :)
<kenvandine> you can look at xchat-indicator as a reference
<ogra_> will do
<kenvandine> np
<hallyn> is banshee suddenly, after awhile, jumping to 250% cpu (and never slowing down) a known bug, or do i need to (gather info and) report?
<kenvandine> hallyn, i haven't seen that happen
<kenvandine> not known afaik
<hallyn> drat.  happens daily for me.
<hallyn> ok, next time it happens i'll try to report :)
<kenvandine> :)
<kenvandine> thx!
<hallyn> if cpu will let me
<hallyn> (i only ever notice bc cpu temp goes very close to where it shuts down)
<kenvandine> wow
<dobey> mterry: uhm. do you know where exactly that 302 error is coming from? i doubt it's a server issue exactly. looks like something is not handling redirects when it should
<mterry> dobey, I could believe it.  duplicity is handling the errors, but doesn't have a case for 302
<mterry> dobey, when does U1 give back 302 for the Files API?
<dobey> mterry: no idea
<mterry> dobey, I haven't seen the error myself.  I understand the theory behind 302, but not sure when a files api consumer would expect them.  I shouldn't think they would happen there
<dobey> mterry: i guess my point is that it shouldn't matter, because any HTTP based client should handle 302 correctly. does deja-dup log the Location header or anything?
<mterry> dobey, no, this happens in duplicity (the command line backup program that deja-dup uses) and it doesn't log it either
<dobey> ok :-/
<mterry> dobey, is there a situation where U1 would give back a 500 status without an oops-id?
<ubot2> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=id
<dobey> mterry: possibly, but i don't really know anything about the server side of the REST stuff as i haven't worked on it
<mterry> dobey, ok.  a user just hit one, but I'd always seen an oops id
<dobey> mterry: i think a rollout is happening today/now, so maybe weird timing issue and it got hit. not sure
<mterry> dobey, k
<kenvandine> WOOT!  87% speedup in pulling the gwibber messages over dbus
<m4n1sh> jbicha: when you get time can you please look into this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/879702
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 879702 in totem "Please update packaging so that it add zeitgeist-dataprovider plugin in totem-plugins package" [Undecided,New]
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-10-22
<dlbike76> join #ubuntu-bugs
#ubuntu-desktop 2011-10-23
<chronossc> someone have idea how get back my transparency and desktop effects after set dua monitor with nvidia-settings?
<chronossc> there is a way of dump actual xorg.conf used / generated by default by ubuntu?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-15
<veebers> Does anyone know if it's possible to add a ppa during the normal desktop installation (without using a preseed file)?
<pitti> Bonjour
<pitti> JoseeAntonioR: just ask, I'm reading backscroll :)
<JoseeAntonioR> pitti: mind a quick pm? :)
<pitti> as I said, just ask
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks! as-tu eu un bon week-end?
<didrocks> pitti: bon week-end, on a visitÃ© pas mal de salles pour le mariage, donc un peu fatiguÃ© :)
<didrocks> et toi?
<pitti> ooh, wedding preps!
<didrocks> yep ;)
<pitti> didrocks: il Ã©tait calme; we went to the cinema ("Looper"), an hour into the woods for collecting mushroom, and to the Botanic garden
<pitti> enjoying the nice autumn weather
<didrocks> oh, seems to be a lovely weekend, indeed :)
<pitti> didrocks: avez-vous trouver une bonne salle?
<didrocks> pitti: oui, je pense qu'on en a trouvÃ© une. Maintenant, il faut voir si on peut avoir un bon traiteur au mÃªme endroit + le curÃ© pour le mariage :)
<pitti> ok, I need babelfish for that one
<pitti> didrocks: how much time do you have left?
<didrocks> pitti: just a little bit less than a year ;)
<pitti> ah, plenty of time
<didrocks> indeed, but it seems that rooms are booked already, we have few free dates remaining :)
<BigWhale> Good Morning everyone.
<didrocks> hey BigWhale
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<BigWhale> hey didrocks, chrisccoulson :)
<didrocks> morning chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> hi BigWhale
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: a little bit tired, but fine! thanks :) yourself?
<pitti> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, pretty much the same. my daughter is starting to look a bit better this morning too :)
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, i'm good thanks. how are you?
<didrocks> ah, great to hear for you daughter :)
<didrocks> your*
<pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks! had a relaxing weekend
<pitti> good to hear about your daughter
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<jibel> good morning
<rickspencer3> hi jibel
<didrocks> salut jibel, hey rickspencer3!
<jibel> Hey rickspencer3!
<jibel> bonjour didrocks
<rickspencer3> bonjhour mes amis?
<rickspencer3> 12.10, c'est bon?
<didrocks> de mon cÃ´tÃ©, pas de catastrophe pour unity, good to roll! :-)
<rickspencer3> le mot dans la rue?
<rickspencer3> didrocks, tres bien
<rickspencer3> j'ai boisson mettre les cles compose pour l'accents dans cet ordinateur :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, il y a plus des respins pour 12.10, ou, 12.10 est finis?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: achÃ¨te un clavier azerty! :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: je crois qu'il y a eu un respin ce week-end pour le boot efi. Je vois rien pour l'instant qui demanderait un autre respin :)
<rickspencer3> chouette
<jibel> rickspencer3, at least 1 respin planned to get a fix in apt and another fix for the "reinstall" functionality in ubiquity
<rickspencer3> jibel, je ne connais pas "reinstall" :/
<didrocks> jibel: c'est celui qui est dans -proposed?
<jibel> didrocks, yes, found it yesterday, Colin fixed it yesterday evening
<rickspencer3> aha
<jibel> rickspencer3, ubiquity offers to reinstall the system when it finds an existing installation
<rickspencer3> jibel, we should add tests for that today :)
<jibel> rickspencer3, bug 1066347
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1066347 in ubiquity ""Reinstall Ubuntu" failed - apt-clone crashes with: KeyError: "filename './etc/apt/sources.list' not found" line 1886 in getmember in tarfile.py" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066347
<jibel> rickspencer3, indeed :)
<sbte> pitti, I just replied to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emesene/+bug/1050358
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1050358 in pygobject-2 "emesene crashed with SIGSEGV in tupledealloc.24592()" [High,Confirmed]
<pitti> sbte: ah, thanks
<pitti> hey rickspencer3, Ã§a va?
<rickspencer3> bonjour pitti! je vais bien, et tois?
<rickspencer3> je suis a londre :)
<rickspencer3> je suis a londres* ;)
 * rickspencer3 sets up compose keys
<pitti> rickspencer3: je vais trÃ¨s bien, merci! j'ai eu un week-end calme
<pitti> we had marvellous sunny fall weather, so we went outside quite a lot
<rickspencer3> choutte!
<rickspencer3> samedi, j'ai courru acote la mer d'isle of man
<rickspencer3> c'est telement jolli
<pitti> rickspencer3: "choutte"?
<didrocks> pitti: "chouette" I guess :)
<jibel> pitti, "Chouette" = nice
<rickspencer3> sorry
<pitti> oh, google says that means "owl"
<rickspencer3> Ã¨ Ã© Ã´, etc...
<rickspencer3> pitti, la chouette = owl
<rickspencer3> chouette = "cool"
<rickspencer3> sans l'aritcle ;)
<pitti> j'ai apprendre un nouveau mot ajourd'hui :)
<rickspencer3> pitti, I think it was current slang in like 1975
<didrocks> yeah, it's a little bit old-fashionned :)
<rickspencer3> now they say "nikel"
<pitti> rickspencer3: tu as un clef compose maintenant?
<pitti> âº Ã¦ â
<rickspencer3> pitti, oui, c'est vrais ;)
<rickspencer3> mais, je ne puex pas Ã©peller avec ou sans le clÃ©s compose ;)
<pitti> oui, c'est trÃ¨s utile
<pitti> translage.g.c ne sait pas "nikel"
<rickspencer3> je pense il y a un systÃ©m pour la correction d'eppllage
<rickspencer3> pitti, nickel?
<rickspencer3> oui, c'est "nickel" desolÃ©
<pitti> rickspencer3: oui, mais c'est juste la piÃ¨ce de monnaie
<rickspencer3> pitti, the mysteries of slang :)
<pitti> *tsk*
<didrocks> pitti: non, c'est "niquel" le matÃ©riau
<jibel> pitti, "chouette" comes from the old French verb "Choeter" which meant "to be handsome" and now means "it is a good news"
<didrocks> https://www.google.com/search?q=niquel&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=tLZ7UInrHZKZhQf58oDQCw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=994
<rickspencer3> aha!
<didrocks> "nickel" is "cool"
<pitti> didrocks: as if that wouldn't be any less weird
<rickspencer3> j'ai ecoutÃ© "nickel platinum" aussi
<didrocks> rickspencer3: ahah ;)
<didrocks> pitti: TBH, I see more than 50% mispelling "niquel" for "nickel" :p
<didrocks> (long discussions on #gnomefr :p)
<rickspencer3> j'ai regardÃ© tv le monde heir denier, mais, je n'ai pas comprix :(
<rickspencer3> les franÃ§aises ... si vous ples ... parle plus lentment!
<didrocks> tv5monde? je regarde peu la chaine, mais j'imagine que le dÃ©bit de parole est rapide
<didrocks> ahah, c'est dans toutes les langues "les amÃ©ricains, svp, plus lent!" ;)
<mlankhorst> Lets all pretend we're french day?
<mlankhorst> Je t'aime!
<pitti> "Je suis un homme franÃ§ais"
<didrocks> jibel: on a rÃ©ussi, finalement \o/
<pitti> ... et je l'aime!
 * didrocks change le langpack par dÃ©faut et demande un respin de 13.10
<didrocks> 12.10*
<mlankhorst> Ah oui!
<pitti> didrocks: wasn't that what seb128 announced 5 months ago already anyway?
<didrocks> pitti: ouai, mais j'avais peur que ce "bug" ne soit pas corrigÃ© :)
<didrocks> ("bogue" en bon franÃ§ais)
<pitti> ah ah
<pitti> (see, I'm even imitating French laughter!)
<mlankhorst> riri
<didrocks> riri? :p
<pitti> didrocks: FWIW, with all the CPU/battery/memory increase, it certainly doesn't help that unity grows more and more python daemons :(
<pitti> didrocks: do you know if there's any plan to rewrite them in Vala? (and stop adding more Python daemons in the frist place)?
<didrocks> pitti: I agree and we'll probably put the issue down on paper with PS
<didrocks> pitti: I heard about Goâ¦
<pitti> well, anything which doesn't incur a 0.5 second start penalty even on fast machines
<pitti> and a huge memory footprint
<pitti> opening the dash the first time on my netbook is ridiculously slow, and it's even worse on arm
 * mlankhorst tried
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> hey!
<rickspencer3> bonjour seb128
<seb128> rickspencer3, salut ! toujours Ã  Londre ?
<seb128> lut didrocks
<rickspencer3> seb128, oui, je suis Ã  Londres
<rickspencer3> seb128, quel est la mot dans la rue apropos 12.10?
<seb128> rickspencer3, ca a l'air ok pour l'instant
<rickspencer3> l'air "ok" ?
<rickspencer3> pas l'air niquel?
<seb128> rickspencer3, disont qu'il y a quelques bugs que j'aurais prÃ©fÃ©rÃ© ne pas voir dans la release
<seb128> rickspencer3, mais rien de suffisant pour stopper,retarder la release
<chrisccoulson> good morning french people
<seb128> chrisccoulson, good morning our uk friend, how is your rainy country today? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, it's a bit miserable outside ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, had a good W.E? Is your daughter better?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, she looks a bit better this morning. her face doesn't look as swollen today
<rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson :)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3 :)
<pitti> salut seb128!
<seb128> pitti, salut, ca va ? t'as passÃ© un bon w.e ?
 * bryceh waves in a frenchly manner
<seb128> bryceh, hey, how are you? In London as well or just not sleeping on a sunday night? ;-)
 * mlankhorst will go on his next flight with air france klm
<didrocks> hey bryceh :)
<bryceh> seb128, nah, just being a night owl
<bryceh> "le couch-tard" apparently?
<seb128> that's correct ;-)
<bryceh> well that works in english too ;-)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> morning
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
<pitti> seb128: oui, c'Ã©tait jolie et calme; nous avons eu du beau temps
<Laney> seb128: good thanks! good weekend?
<pitti> seb128: "joli"
<seb128> pitti, ici vent et pluie :-(
<didrocks> ici ciel bleu :)
<seb128> Laney, quite good thanks, spa on saturday, starcraft on sunday
<pitti> seb128: comme c'est dommage
 * Laney got the new x-com game
<seb128> pitti, c'est l'automne
<pitti> ah well, playing games is quite nice, too :)
<seb128> Laney, unknown enemy? how is it?
<seb128> I'm pondering buying it
<seb128> I think RAOF plays it as well
<Laney> yeah it's fun, definitely a lot in common with the original
<seb128> I used to play the old xcom, it has been a while ... in the 90's
<Laney> so if you liked those, get it
<MCR1> Laney, seb128, RAOF: Shame on you ;) (just joking) - you should all try UFO:AI, which is open source: www.ufoai.org !
<seb128> well, I played only one, it was a by turn strategic team battle
<Laney> yeah, that's the same :-)
<seb128> do you need a powerful video to play? I'm never sure if intel cards let you run modern games :p
<pitti> I've been playing Wesnoth for quite a while
<seb128> shame on me, I activated my win7 disk this W.E
<MCR1> seb128: Yes, it is OpenGL.
<pitti> I loved Battle Isle back then, but the DOS version is too clumsy now and I can't find my BI3 CD any more
<seb128> I swapped my disk with a ssd one when I bought the laptop, I still have win on the old disk, I swapped it back ... works fine
<MCR1> but UFO:AI really is great, so if you do not know it - please try
<pitti> wesnoth is quite a lot of fun, too; just tends to be quite hard in the later campaigns
<Laney> will do!
<MCR1> imho it is the best open-source game out there
<seb128> MCR1, thanks, will try
<seb128> pitti, oh, battle isle, I played that as well
<MCR1> (I contributed quite a bit to it)
<pitti> seb128: I tried again in dosbox some weeks ago, but with today's monitors and mouse control expectancies it feels really clumsy
<Laney> didrocks: PS freeze session> hah, thanks for that, was considering doing that
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, I think the discussion is important (with design, the different distro teams and so onâ¦ ;))
<Laney> gnome doesn't have a standing exception these days though btw
<Laney> it's not usually necessary as we are aligned with them
<bryceh> sadly only game I got to play this Sunday was catching-baby-climbing-over-couche-tard
<didrocks> Laney: hum, really? I'm pretty sure we still do push it even with the GNOME freeze after ours
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> it came up last cycle IIRC
<Laney> but we agreed it's not necessary
<mvo> seb128: good morning - bug #1032953 looks a lot like a gvfs bug to me, afaics there is no code in update-notifier that triggers it, just running the mainloop there is enough to crash
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1032953 in gvfs "update-notifier crashed with SIGSEGV in g_object_ref()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032953
<mvo> seb128: its #8 on errors
<seb128> mvo, thanks, I will have a look
<mvo> seb128: bug #1032925 looks a bit similar, also no real u-n code involved but library code, in this case dconf. maybe there is some generic memory corruption :/ or they are just two independent bugs
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1032925 in update-notifier "update-notifier crashed with SIGSEGV in g_object_ref()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032925
<mvo> (nr #22 on errors)
<sbte> pitti, will the segfault I sent you be fixed before 12.10?
<pitti> sbte: no, release is Thursday and everything is deep frozen
<pitti> this is perfectly SRUable
<pitti> and we don't even have debugged it yet
<sbte> pitti, ok, too bad. I hope it doesn't affect a lot of other applications
<om26er> pitti, hey! before release of 12.10 will apport be disabled ? (or is it already?)
<pitti> om26er: it is already
<pitti> om26er: well, reporting crashes to Launchpad is
<pitti> just as with precise, we keep reporting crashes to errors.u.c.
<om26er> Ok
<chrisccoulson> sigh https://launchpadlibrarian.net/119773304/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-amd64.firefox-trunk_19.0~a1~hg20121014r110233-0ubuntu1~umd1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<chrisccoulson> because of http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/a913c8c0de54 :(
<chrisccoulson> fantastic start to the week!
<ayan> seb128: i attached some debdiffs to lp780117 -- does that bug need anything else from me?
<seb128> ayan, no, that looks fine, thanks
<Laney> pitti: hey, just got pinged on #debian-gnome about the explicit upstart dep that dbus has. do you remember what it was for?
<Laney> it's pre-lucid anyway so it seems we can drop it and rely on the upstart-job automatic dep now anyway
<pitti> Laney: no idea about it, I'm afraid; that's still from Keybuk
<Laney> old skool
<pitti> didrocks: just watched BBT 4.03 over lunch -- that one is just awesome
<pitti> didrocks: err, 6.03 of course
<seb128> pitti, bbt?
<seb128> oh
<pitti> seb128: Big Bang Theory
<seb128> yeah, just got it :p
<seb128> I should buy the DVDs
<pitti> sorry, OT
<didrocks> pitti: so late! already done on Friday :)
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, I didn't have time for a lunch break on Friday
<didrocks> dinner time with Julie for me :) (she's more fan than I even am ;))
<didrocks> so I would get killed if I watch it without her :p
<pitti> hah
<seb128> do you guys have the DVDs? or are they broadcasted on TV somewhere?
<pitti> just watching from the interwebs
<pitti> seb128: is season 6 on DVD even? it's the current season on TB
<pitti> TV
<didrocks> seb128: same here, I doubt the current season is on dvd :)
<didrocks> but ECANTWAIT :)
<pitti> same here :)
<seb128> didrocks, pitti: ok, I'm probably less good at/wanting to find warez videos on the internet ;-)
<seb128> but I'm lagging behind on bbt anyway, I could just buy the first seasons in DVDs
 * desrt yawns
<seb128> desrt, hey, how are you? had a good long W.E?
<desrt> yup
<desrt> dunno if you saw planet but i'm developing one hell of a next-cycle TODO list
<bcurtiswx> seb128, do you use empathy?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, not a lot, I use piding most of the time
<seb128> desrt, the Boston glib/GTK plans?
<desrt> ya
<desrt> quite a few items on the glib todo list
<seb128> yeah, you comforted me in my idea of "stay on stable" ;-)
<desrt> seb128: :P
<desrt> seb128: i already introduced two of the incompatible changes
<pitti> hey desrt
<bcurtiswx> desrt, do you use empathy?
<desrt> seb128: no complaints yet except that gedit starts showing some g_critical() where it didn't -- and it was already failing valgrind before the changes, so i think it just makes an existing bug more visible
<seb128> bcurtiswx, well, I can run it if needed, I've it installed ... do you need testing?
<desrt> bcurtiswx: using it right now
<desrt> pitti: hey!
<desrt> pitti: i was looking for you :)
<bcurtiswx> sure you both can (bcurtiswx on gtalk) , my notifications do not work in the notification area for new messages
<desrt> pitti: i need you to rewrite class initialisation in pygobject :)
<bcurtiswx> can you confirm?
 * pitti runs away very fast
<desrt> pitti: seriously though....
<bcurtiswx> pitti, inspired by Felix Baumgartner ?
<desrt> pitti: what do you think is the scariest single file in all of GNOME right now?
<pitti> bcurtiswx: ... horizontally
<bcurtiswx> ;)
<pitti> desrt: err, no idea off the top of my head -- but if you are alluding to that, some files in pygobject are certainly hot candidates
<desrt> pitti: i had gtype.c in mind
<desrt> pitti: i'm interested in making some 'changes' there... the way pygobject does class initialisation prevents me from making those changes
<desrt> we could easily have that file half the size and 1/4 as complicated
<larsu> desrt, which adds an extra 33% complexity per line?
<pitti> desrt: I'm not really an expert in the pygobject code yet either, but if there's something to change in particular there, I'm happy to sit down for a day and learn about it
<didrocks> desrt: you are a good seller :)
<desrt> pitti: long story short: everyone on earth does gobjects this way:
<desrt> from their get_type() function inside of the g_once_enter() they call _register() and then _add_interface()
<desrt> then in their class_init() they call a bunch of property installs
<seb128> bcurtiswx, "notifications do not work in the notification area for new messages" ... is that gnome-shell?
<desrt> pygobject calls _register() and then calls _class_ref() on that to get the class structure
<desrt> then installs one round of interfaces
<desrt> then installs the properties
<seb128> bcurtiswx, or what do you call "notification area for new messages"?
<desrt> then installs the rest of the interfaces
<desrt> the two rounds of interfaces thing is explained in the source with a comment saying "this is probably a bug we should have filed against glib..." but in fact is just because they're doing it the wrong way entirely :p
<bcurtiswx> seb128, i can never remember what the white envelope is called, but in there. It does not turn blue for new empathy chat messages
<seb128> bcurtiswx, the messaging menu?
<bcurtiswx> seb128, yes, thank you
<seb128> bcurtiswx, when did the issue start?
<bcurtiswx> around friday last week
<seb128> bcurtiswx, it would be a telepathy-indicator issue, can you ping Ken about it when he gets online?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, you could try to downgrade telepathy-indicator as well
<bcurtiswx> seb128, OK, i'll try both. Thanks
<pitti> desrt: ok, I'm afraid I don't follow from that short description; perhaps you can file a bug with some details, and then I'll get back to you ASAP when I looked at that part intensely?
<desrt> pitti: deal
<desrt> pitti: we should also talk at UDS :)
<pitti> no doubt
<pitti> desrt: that, and beer
<desrt> pitti: i just filed https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686149 with a fairly decent explanation with a code pointer
<ubot2> Gnome bug 686149 in general "fix class initialisation" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<pitti> desrt: cheers
<desrt> pitti: cheers for the work, if you can figure out how to do it :)
<pitti> desrt: I think I can find some time over this week
<desrt> pitti: there may be some reason that i don't know that they elected to do it this way....
<pitti> I'm still working on the gvfs tests to finish that thing
<desrt> like somehow having stuff in a class_init() would have made their lives difficult
<pitti> desrt: I can certainly find J5 on IRC at some point and pick his brain
<desrt> pitti: if it ends up being impossible for you to do that we could discuss alternatives -- maybe i could loosen some of the warnings in glib in order to allow you to still add all interfaces before calling g_type_class_ref()
<bcurtiswx> seb128, i can confirm the older telepathy-indicator 0.3.0-0ubuntu1 works and the -0ubuntu2 does not
<jcastro_> didrocks: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1280650/
<jcastro_> didrocks: some guys have been working on the reset stuff
<didrocks> jcastro_: sweet! on a call, will look afterwards :)
<jcastro_> cool
<didrocks> jcastro_: after a first quick review, it would be better to use the python gobject gsettings binding rather than calling subprocess if possible
<didrocks> (also not having the list hard-coded by detecting which schemes are installed on the system or gsettings will fail)
<bcurtiswx> morning kenvandine
<kenvandine> howdy
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, the telepathy-indicator 0.3.0-0ubuntu2 upgrade borked the messaging menu turning blue on new empathy messages.
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, i confirmed it works OK with -0ubuntu1 but not -0ubuntu2
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, nothing shows from empathy in the messaging menu from empathy
<cyphermox> how's everyone doing on this fine morning? :)
<bcurtiswx> off to work, bbs
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, hummm
<pitti> hey cyphermox, good morning
<cyphermox> hey pitti
<seb128> mterry, hey
<seb128> mterry, how are you? how busy are you today? ;-)
<seb128> mterry, or: is there any chance you could look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1053862
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1053862 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in g_list_foreach()" [High,Confirmed]
<mterry> seb128, I can look at it, yeah
<om26er> cyphermox, Hey!
<om26er> cyphermox, can you please take a look at bug bug 965895
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 965895 in network-manager-applet "After boot, NetworkManager indicator menu only shows four entries" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/965895
<seb128> mterry, thanks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1054737 might be the same one
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1054737 in nautilus "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_widget_destroy()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<cyphermox> om26er: I was looking at it before, I have a few ideas but it will need testing outside of proposed to see if it helps -- I can't reproduce it myself
<cyphermox> om26er: can you reproduce this easily?
<om26er> cyphermox, yeah, it happens quite reliably on one slow machine that I have
<cyphermox> ok
<cyphermox> so I'll write up a patch and put it in a ppa for you to try ;)
<om26er> sure
<cyphermox> om26er: just to be sure, quantal right?
<cyphermox> because AFAIK this happens on precise too
<om26er> cyphermox, both, quantal and precise
<cyphermox> om26er: which one are you running?
<om26er> cyphermox, i have both installed, atm its running quantal
<cyphermox> oh ok
<cyphermox> well I got a copy of the quantal branch already, so I'll do this one first
<bcurtiswx> back :)
<tsdgeos> So in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1064992 i discovered what seems to be a bug in gtk+3 and created a simple patch at https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=686152 What's the workflow from there? Wait until gtk patch is upstream and then distro patch? distro patch anyway? never distro patch and simply wait for next gtk release?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1064992 in gtk+3.0 "Unity menubar crashes when activating a submenu in LibreOffice while using Orca screen reader" [Undecided,In progress]
<seb128> tsdgeos, not strict rule, but we like to have an happy upstream review before backporting fixes
<tsdgeos> makes sense :-)
<seb128> tsdgeos, we do apply patches before they are reviewed though when we judge them important enoughs or when we are confident in the change
<didrocks> tsdgeos: I think you can ping API on this one I guess
<tsdgeos> didrocks: no such nick around says /whois
<didrocks> tsdgeos: yeah, he seems to not be around. he's normally on gimp.net and freenode
<tsdgeos> let me check gimpnet
<tsdgeos> nope
<didrocks> tsdgeos: no, he's really not around, maybe try later (he's in argentina? not sure)
<tsdgeos> maybe :-)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, can you file a bug for that?
<kenvandine> i think i have a fix
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, sure if you need any info from my Quantal install at home I can get that later today
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, it works fine for guest and for new users on first run
<kenvandine> but it doesn't work after that :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i am pretty sure i have a fix
<bcurtiswx> OK one sec
<kenvandine> just need a bug report to reference :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, bug #1066901
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1066901 in telepathy-indicator "Messaging menu does not show new messages for empathy." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066901
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, you're linking a branch with a dif lp # ?
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, what do you mean?
<bcurtiswx> in the bug report i just made you linked a branch you made for a gwibber bug
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> not really :)
<kenvandine> i fixed it in the other branch
<kenvandine> which was already linked
<bcurtiswx> oh, ok
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, ok, fix uploaded to -proposed... now it is up to the SRU team :)
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, thanks!
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, no, thank you :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, so anyone using it on a live CD for 12.10 will be OK, and anyone upgrading will get the fix anyways, right?
<kenvandine> yeah
<bcurtiswx> great
<kenvandine> once it goes through he SRU process
<bcurtiswx> yup
<kenvandine> i did most of my testing on that in a guest session
<kenvandine> which is why i didn't catch that
<kenvandine> whoops :)
<bcurtiswx> :)
<kenvandine> must land code earlier!
<cyphermox> om26er: wanna try https://launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/+archive/nm/+sourcepub/2717767/+listing-archive-extra ?
<cyphermox> (once it's built)
<om26er> cyphermox, yes, I will test and let you know
<Laney> davidcalle: Do you have a -photos SRU planned?
<davidcalle> Laney, yes, I've just landed a new branch with a potential SRU fix, and there is your AccountsManager fix
<Laney> davidcalle: great
<Laney> It's #4 on e.u.c so I want to make sure it gets in :-)
<Laney> same for -gdocs /me hunts for mardy
<Laney> pfft, people who don't hang around in any #ubuntu-* channels with me suck :P
<afernandez> Hi Sweetshark
<Sweetshark> tedg, afernandez: Hi all. A quick update on LibreOffice ...
<Sweetshark> afernandez seems to have fixed bug 1064962, but there are still issues with opening writer from the startcenter, right?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1064962 in indicator-appmenu "Global menubar items do not work when opening a document directly from nautilus with no LibreOffice instance running" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064962
<afernandez> Sweetshark, yes
<afernandez> Sweetshark, I am working on it right now
<Sweetshark> afernandez hopes to fix the remaining issue. I would hope to target this not for a 0day SRU but for ~1 week in. There is still the issue with helping bamf by setting the current app as a window property and I will be at the LO conference this week.
<Sweetshark> tedg: does that sound sensible to you?
<tedg> Sweetshark, We're working on fixing it on the other side as well.
<tedg> It's a race condition that can't be completely solved on the LO side.
<Sweetshark> tedg: k.
<tedg> Sweetshark, The BAMF branch is "demo" state and I'm going to use that in indicator-appmenu this afternoon.
<tedg> That being said, making it better on the LO side is good too.
<afernandez> Sweetshark, tedg there is also some issues updating the HUD. There is a new feature called HUD awareness protocol implemented by Ryan Lortie that should help to fix that
<tedg> Cool.
<afernandez> Sweetshark, tedg I have a branch with some code to work with it, but currently the implementation is not working for us. I have sent an email to Ryan explaining the issue and I hope it could be fixed soon
<tedg> desrt, are you on it? ^
<tedg> I've got a mnemonics branch as well, but it's not working.  I need to figure out why it's not getting the keys.
<tedg> It does the alt-highlighting thought really nicely :-)
<tedg> though
<afernandez> tedg, happy to hear that :)
<Sweetshark> tedg, afernandez: so, I will target a SRU 7day in and if time allows will try to ppa the intermediate state in 1-2 days -- if time allows.
<afernandez> Sweetshark, yes, I have found the issue which prevented the menu to work
<afernandez> Sweetshark, problem is that test crashes came back again :(
<afernandez> Sweetshark, I think that the crasher bug is still there...
<Sweetshark> afernandez: not good
<afernandez> Sweetshark, no, not at all...
<Sweetshark> afernandez: ok, lets see how it works out with latest fixes in a few days.
<afernandez> ok
<Sweetshark> afernandez, tedg: Anything else, or should we adjourn?
<davmor2> kenvandine: hey dude so https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1020959 looks like the issue might be out fault,  apparently they use the icon input-dialpad from gnome-icon-theme the only reference I see to it as as an svg scalable but then it is called input-dialpad-symbolic.svg
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1020959 in empathy "Empathy call is missing an icon for dialpad/side panel" [Low,Triaged]
<davmor2> s/out/our
<afernandez> Sweetshark, nothing else to say from my side :)
<tedg> I'm good as well
<Sweetshark> afernandez, tedg: k, thanks guys ;)
<kenvandine> davmor2, ah
<kenvandine> davmor2, the icon is in gnome-icon-theme-full
<bcurtiswx> seb128, the GNOME plan would differ from now in that we wouldn't touch any GNOME files until they were in the stable status ? where as now we grab unstable and keep updating ?
<seb128> bcurtiswx, right
<seb128> we would follow 3.6 next cycle
<seb128> rather than packaging every 3.7 and ship with 3.8
<seb128> lot less work and time to deal properly with changes and bugs in 3.6
<bcurtiswx> seb128, so if there's fixes in GNOME unstable for stable releases that GNOME doesn't feel like putting in their stable releases, we'll require a lot more backporting, right?
<jbicha_> GNOME doesn't really support their stable releases anyway, their last 3.6 release is 3.6.2 scheduled for next month
<jbicha_> that really sounds like 7 weeks of suupport to me :(
<cyphermox> om26er: looking any better?
<om26er> cyphermox, i got sidetracked, downloaded the debs now.. gotta reboot and test a few times
<cyphermox> ok :P
<cyphermox> oops
<om26er> cyphermox, the fix is working fine for me
<cyphermox> hmm, cool
<cyphermox> that still brings me to really wonder what the hell might be causing the code that is there to not trigger
<om26er> cyphermox, after a couple of reboots i cannot reproduce the issue and it was happening quite easily before installing those debs
<cyphermox> but this kind of forces the menu to be updated after at most 30 seconds
<om26er> wont that eat CPU a bit?
<cyphermox> not more than the current state
<cyphermox> well, a bit, but it's negligible on most systems
<cyphermox> very few interfaces, a few connections, etc., two or three dbus calls to get the information
<om26er> cyphermox, if you hand me a patch, I could work on the SRU for precise
<om26er> and for quantal
<cyphermox> ah, I can handle it no prob ;)
<davmor2> kenvandine: right so apparently empathy depends on that one icon for it's dialpad, so I don't know if we have our own equivalent I didn't see one with the quick look that I did, in the meantime I'll install gnome-icon-theme-full and see if that does indeed fix the issue
<cyphermox> there's a few other patches I need to ship for precise and probably some for quantal too
<cyphermox> I can definitely share the patch though:
<cyphermox> om26er: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1281638/
<om26er> cyphermox, alright, cool :)
<kenvandine> davmor2, we need to tweak the package so that icon lands in gnome-icon-theme instead of -ful
<kenvandine> +l
<davmor2> kenvandine: confirmed installing gnome-icon-theme-full fixes the missing icon so I'll add that to the bug and modify the description appropriately
<kenvandine> thx
<seb128> bcurtiswx, yeah, backporting every single fix GNOME puts in is less work than dealing with unstable releases tracking though ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, there is a file listing images that should be in g-i-t, it should be a matter of listing the icon there
<kenvandine> yeah
<seb128> kenvandine, the replaces is always << current-version to deal nicely with such tweaks
<jcastro_> hey kenvandine
<kenvandine> yo
<jcastro_> some community people are trying to fix up "unity --reset"
<jcastro_> didrocks did the first review but he's gone, I was wonderign if you could have a look
<jcastro_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1281827/
<jcastro_> (I've asked them to push the code to launchpad instead of pastebin too
<kenvandine> sorry... i don't know what compiz stuff unity touches
<jcastro_> ok
<jcastro_> is there anyone around that does?
<kenvandine> seb128, ^^
<kenvandine> maybe
<jcastro_> I'll encourage them to post to the -desktop list
<kenvandine> ok
<phanimahesh> we want to help fix unity --reset, here's our first cut  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1281827/
<phanimahesh> The revision history is saved on bitbucket at https://bitbucket.org/jpmahesh/unity-reset
<jcastro_> ok mail sent to the list
<jcastro_> phanimahesh: thanks for doing it, people with broken computers will love it. :)
<bschaefer> jcastro_, or people who compile compiz :)
<phanimahesh> I love contributing to Ubuntu. I should thank jokerdino and amith for pulling me into this.
<phanimahesh> and you ofcourse, for that bounty I'm about to get. :D :P
<seb128> jcastro_, kenvandine: desktop list sounds good
<jcastro_> phanimahesh: next time we'll get you sorted on launchpad and stuff
<phanimahesh> Sure. :)
<DonM>  Hi! I'm running Lucid and have a problem with Evolution Calendar. I double clicked on today's date in the small calendar pulldown from the tack bar -- and everything was deleted. I've got backups running and found old versions of calendar.ics but these do not restore anything. Is there some other file I should look for?
<doomlord> can ubuntu-unity do a scale to show all windoows from all desktops
<desrt> tedg: on what?
<desrt> i'm pretty sure that race is not on our side...
<desrt> although there is a slightly disturbing gmenumodel exporter bug that i'm trying to find at the moment... who knows...
<tedg> desrt, He mentioned he'd asked some questions in an e-mail.  I was more pinging so that you could confirm or deny :-)
<tedg> Didn't want to to feel left out.
<tedg> you to
<desrt> tedg: btw... i noticed that you refactored the grab stuff a bit...
<desrt> it worries me because i made it the way it was to deal with the expected behaviour under various exotic languages
<tedg> desrt, A little bit.  Mostly because I didn't have unichars.
<tedg> desrt, I assumed (but didn't verify) that the GtkLabel code handled that case.
<desrt> like i tried to make sure the behaviour was consistent with what gtk was already doing on (for example) hebrew
<desrt> you can have multiple keyvals per unichar
<tedg> desrt, I don't believe so.
<desrt> from my research it was possible
<tedg> desrt, The functions to translate are all 1:1
<desrt> like if you had a hebrew keyboard layout enabled but not active
<desrt> and the label was in hebrew
<desrt> that you could press alt+[latin character on the same key as the hebrew letter]
<desrt> and it would work
<desrt> hmm
<tedg> desrt, I think that is keyval to keycode
<desrt> i don't remember exactly.  it was a long time ago :)
<desrt> could well be
<tedg> desrt, I didn't change that translation bit.
<desrt> okay.  good :)
<jcastro_> hey jbicha, how well tested is gnome-boxes? I can get it to run but not create images
<jcastro_> well test in ubuntu I mean
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-16
<jbicha> jcastro_: boxes isn't tested much in Ubuntu
<jbicha> is your host 32-bit or 64-bit? do you have hardware virtualization?
<jbicha> I really, really hope that we can just delay the next October Ubuntu release by a week so that we don't have to file SRU bugs for all of the gnome .1 release
<pitti> Good morning
<BigWhale> Good Morning Everyone.
<RAOF> Everyone: good morning BigWhale
<BigWhale> Hey RAOF. :)
<BigWhale> Ok, office time and it's pouring outside ... :/ *cringe*
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<RAOF> pitti: Is there a way to prod the armhf retracers to get to bug #1063055, or should I be spinning up an armhf schroot?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1063055 in colord "colord-sane crashed with SIGABRT in raise()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063055
<pitti> RAOF: we do not have armhf retracers
<RAOF> pitti: Ah. So where it's got the âneeds-armhf-retraceâ tag, that's a filthy lie?
<pitti> RAOF: well, not quite -- it does _need_ it, we just don't have anything to satisfy that need :/
<RAOF> Heh
<RAOF> Ok; one schroot + apport-retrace coming up.
<pitti> \o/
<jibel> good morning
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> Bonjour didrocks , Ã§a va ?
<didrocks> jibel: on fait aller, et toi?
<jibel> didrocks, Un peu cassÃ©, Ã  force de faire du testing jusqu'Ã  pas d'heure, mais Ã§a va, Ã§a va.
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<jibel> bonjour seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, jibel, vous allez bien ?
<didrocks> seb128: et toi?
<jibel> seb128, Ã§a va bien
<seb128> ca va bien ;-) pas complÃ¨tement rÃ©veillÃ© mais je travaille dessus avec du cafÃ© :p
<didrocks> seb128: meeting report reminder
<seb128> didrocks, oh, right, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> yw
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, hey, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: je vais bien, merci! et toi?
<seb128> pitti, moi aussi, merci ;-)
<Laney> morning
 * Laney is ââ close to buying SSD for laptop
<mvo> seb128: good morning! do you happen to know if there is a special css component in the gtk bugzilla? I found a memleak that makes me rather unhappy
<seb128> Laney, do it! ;-)
<Laney> just did it for desktop
<Laney> and now the laptop feels unusable :P
<seb128> mvo, hey, how are you? No specific component I know about, just open a bug and maybe ping Company about it on IRC
<mvo> Laney: haha, happend for me as well
<seb128> Laney, hehe
<mvo> Laney: the other way around though, got a ssd in the laptop and wouldn't touch the desktop anymore
<mvo> seb128: thanks
<mlankhorst> mvo: can i ping you on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1062503 ?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1062503 in apt "apt fails to install libglapi-mesa-lts-quantal correctly on switching x stacks" [High,New]
<mvo> mlankhorst: yes, sorry, release crayiness stopped me
<mlankhorst> no worries :)
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<xnox> Does anyone have any idea there "Start Screen Saver" item comes from in this screenshot: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/119833082/Screenshot%20from%202012-10-15%2014%3A02%3A43.png
<xnox> I can't find it in ubiquity.... but what else?
<seb128> xnox, indicator-session
<seb128> xnox, those icons on the top right are indicators
<xnox> seb128: true. except that we fake them in install only ubiquity session.
<xnox> static gchar * indicator_order[] = {
<xnox>   "indicator-session-devices",
<xnox>   "indicator-sound",
<xnox>   "nm-applet",
<xnox>   "bluetooth-manager",
<xnox>   "ubiquity",
<xnox>   "keyboard",
<xnox>   NULL
<xnox> };
 * xnox is confused.
<seb128> xnox, is the issue the "non translated"?
<xnox> seb128: the issue is that we make a gsettings call to "disable all screensavers" during install (as black screen is confusing during slow installs), yet that item is present in the menu.
<xnox> I'd rather not have that item there at all, while ubiquity is running.
<xnox> Any magical gsettings I can flip to make it disappear?
<seb128> xnox, translation issue was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1037001
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1037001 in ubiquity "[l10n][zh_CN] Indicator menus should be fully localized for installer" [High,Fix released]
<seb128> xnox, no, you would need code patch, it seems a good idea to open a bug against indicator-session asking for that item to be hidden if the key to disable screenlocking is set
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'm good thanks. how are you?
<xnox> seb128: well we reload some indicators which are purely ours, but not all of them. Thanks for the pointer.
<chrisccoulson> i wish my builds in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/ would stop failing!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, did they change api again?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, not sure. it's because of the patches we carry
<chrisccoulson> i spend too much time refreshing patches ;)
<xnox> seb128: ok, but how come in the installed (my) system I don't have that item?
<seb128> xnox, you should, I've it there
<seb128> xnox, do you have gnome-screensaver installed?
<xnox> yes.
<xnox> "Lock/Switch Accounts" Ctrl-Alt-L is what I have....
<xnox> "Lock/Switch Account..." Ctrl-Alt-L is what I have....
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I know what you mean now, different wordings
<seb128> let me check
<xnox> come to think of it, I have power management (screens turn off) and screen locks, but I've yet to see an actual screensaver on my system.
<xnox> maybe my system is non-standard though..... but it ought to be.
<xnox> are you telling me there is cool screensaver I never saw?
<seb128> "screensaver", like drawings on screen?
<seb128> those got dropped in GNOME3
<seb128> xnox, ok, so the mode is defined by
<seb128> get_switcher_mode()
<seb128>   const gboolean can_lock = !g_settings_get_boolean (mgr->lockdown_settings,
<seb128>                                                      "disable-lock-screen");
<seb128>   const gboolean can_switch = is_user_switching_allowed (mgr);
<seb128> xnox, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1282746/
<seb128> basically
<xnox> seb128: interesting. Which package is that? I want to see is_this_live_session() & is_this_guest_session()
<seb128> xnox, indicator-session src/session-menu-mgr.c
<xnox> we change: gs_schema = 'org.gnome.desktop.screensaver' gs_key = 'idle-activation-enabled'
<xnox> maybe we should flic disable-lock-screen then.
<xnox> as well.
<seb128> xnox, you probably should
<glatzor> hello mvo
 * glatzor is in schwerer not
<glatzor> mvo, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/aptdaemon/+bug/1066457
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1066457 in aptdaemon "Missing dpkg-dev dependency results in false bad quality warnings when installing local packages" [Critical,In progress]
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> do you have an opinion about this one? https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/quantal/lightdm-gtk-greeter/lang-chooser-on-by-default/+merge/129758
<dholbach> it's arguably a bit late
<mvo> glatzor: hello, let me have a look
<seb128> dholbach, hey ;-)
<mvo> glatzor: "schwere not" oh oh
 * mvo hugs glatzor
<seb128> dholbach, it's a question for the flavors that use the gtk greeter, Ubuntu uses unity-greeter; I think e.g xubuntu uses the gtk one
<dholbach> ahhhhhh ok
<dholbach> I understand
 * glatzor waves to seb128 and dholbach 
<glatzor> servus!
<dholbach> hey glatzor :)
<seb128> glatzor, hey, how are you?
<glatzor> I am fine :) and your self?
<glatzor> thanks mvo
<dholbach> is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/1065324 something we will get in anyway through a 3.4.4 release as SRU or is it something we would like to get in through -proposed sooner?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1065324 in totem "Totem-mozilla plugin fails to display video in online .mov & .mp4" [Medium,Fix released]
<seb128> glatzor, I'm good thanks
<seb128> dholbach, will you be at UDS?
<dholbach> seb128, yes
<seb128> doh
<seb128> glatzor, will you be at UDS
<seb128> dholbach, thanks :p let that totem bug to me, I will handle it as well
<dholbach> seb128, awesome
<glatzor> seb128, Unfortunately not. I was too late to get it sponsored (I was travelling arround in August without a computer and so missed the date)
<seb128> dholbach, ok, fine, you convinced me I should review desktopish items on the sponsor list this afternoon
<seb128> dholbach, so feel free to let me anything desktopish
<seb128> glatzor, hum, ok, maybe next time then!
<dholbach> seb128, perfect
<glatzor> seb128, you never know :)
<desrt> good morning
<dholbach> seb128, is https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/gnome-shell/apport-hook-update-lp1058845/+merge/127410 something we should still get in?
<Laney> pitti: you working on glib 2.34.1? do you dare touch it any more? :P
<pitti> Laney: I'm not ATM; I've got a few tasks to finish before I could start on it
<Laney> oh, but you do plan on
<pitti> no, I didn't
<pitti> I don't do desktop stuff unless someone asks me to, except pygobject
<Laney> right, I will then
<Laney> I wasn't clear on whether you were still doing it
<seb128> dholbach, that's one for jbicha
<dholbach> ah great
<seb128> Laney, do you plan to SRU that?
<Laney> seb128: I think so
<seb128> Laney, ok, glib seems fine, gtk not really
<Laney> yeah, "huge refactoring" really gives me confidence
<seb128> they did refactoring in a stable update again...
<seb128> that's 2 series in a row, they rewrote GtkIconView in a stable update in 3.4
<seb128> I officially hate GNOME handling of "stable" series :-(
<jcastro_> didrocks: hey, the link I posted there was to the script without the shelling out to commands.
<jcastro_> didrocks: anyway they've been working on it, so there will be more updates today
<didrocks> jcastro_: I would love that, we can even SRU it IMHO
<jcastro_> oh really? nice!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i hate upstreams who rewrite stuff in stable updates too ;)
<Laney> hrhr
<chrisccoulson> talking of gtk, i need to make myself a debug build
<Laney> probably some cherry-picks can be done for gtk though
<seb128> Laney, yeah, I'm leaning toward not spending too much time on nonLTS SRUs though
<jbicha> dholbach: yes, but maybe we'll just bundle with gnome-shell 3.6.1
<seb128> we have enough work we will need to get done next cycle
<seb128> so I would rather start on that early
<dholbach> jbicha, cool
<bcurtiswx> good morning
<seb128> kenvandine, didrocks, chrisccoulson, Ursinha, Laney, mlankhorst, cyphermox, mterry, tkamppeter, robru: it's meeting time, if anyone has a topic (none on the wiki so far), also please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-10-16 with things you worked on this week for those who didn't write anything yet
 * kenvandine waves
<seb128> kenvandine, hey ;-)
<desrt> pitti: is there any way that apport can make note of the time that has elapsed between the coredump occuring and the dialog actually being presented to the user?
<desrt> ie: so we can make better guesses about issues that happened at shutdown only to be reported with a dialog at the next bootup?
<seb128> Laney, can you cherry pick http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=212ffcc574d929ca0715960b4f29a4aab909a251 when you update/SRU glib?
<seb128> Laney, it fixes one of the most reported issues on e.u.c
<Laney> seb128: sure
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<kenvandine> davmor2, i uploaded the dialpad icon fix to -proposed
<kenvandine> davmor2, when you see the SRU accepted, please verify it
<davmor2> kenvandine: nice, will do
<kenvandine> thx
<jasoncwarner_> bryceh robert_ancell RAOF and TheMuso reminder about weekly meeting and update items https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2012-10-16
 * bryceh waves
<RAOF> Good morning all!
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
<bryceh> I've some updates on gaming stuff
<RAOF> Oooh
<bryceh> the nvidia beta driver 310.14 was just released yesterday, is packaged and ready for sru review.  Hoping to get that out today so we can demonstrate a swift packaging turnaround.
<bryceh> we're in process of establishing an fglrx-experimental-9 package.  This is on Alberto's todo list and he has everything he needs.
<bryceh> I'm going to merge mesa9 into x-updates today, along with -ati and -nouveau (and maybe weston), once I've completed an input device script update for another project
<bryceh> apart from drivers, one of the other issues folks are worried about with gaming is performance with unity while full screen
<bryceh> Neil indicated there's several driver bugs which inhibit them from rolling out unity fixes, so I think those bugs are priorities for us
<bryceh> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu?field.tag=unredirect
<bryceh> mlankhorst, I assigned the nouveau bug on that list to you - hope you don't mind, and please let me know your thoughts once you've had a chance to look
<bryceh> the intel bug on that list I'll work on; sounds like it needs some git bisection to locate the patch(es), but I might ask Intel for help
<mlankhorst> really hard to get a hold of upstream though
<mlankhorst> I'm tempted to do some commit myself because maintainer doesn't respond :/
<bryceh> mlankhorst, yes if you know how to fix it, please do
<mlankhorst> i mean on a patch that's not mine
<RAOF> You're welcome to fix in Ubuntu :)
<bryceh> there's an fglrx bug on that list which I guess we should reproduce and send to AMD.  Not sure who to own that, but I may try reproducing it first
<bryceh> mlankhorst, right yeah, fixing in ubuntu for now and just notifying upstream of the issue and/or patch is definitely a-okay
<bryceh> the other bugs on that list appear to be compiz issues, so haven't looked at them.
<mlankhorst> well i have nouveau commit access
<mlankhorst> ill take a look tomorrow
<bryceh> ok thanks :-)
<cyphermox> RAOF: is it your turn for reviewing SRUs? I need precise SRUs reviewed for NM
<RAOF> cyphermox: Indeed it is!
<cyphermox> oh yay
<cyphermox> RAOF: also, good morning/evening :)
<RAOF> What's cookin'?
<RAOF> (Or failing to cook, pending SRU acceptance âº)
<cyphermox> some less likely to be rejected fixes
<cyphermox> ;)
<RAOF> Just network-manager 0.9.4.0-0ubuntu4.2?
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> stuff to avoid unnecessary error messages, fixes for IPv6, etc.
<RAOF> cyphermox: Those SRU bugs are marvellously clear, thank you.
<cyphermox> sweet, thanks for pointing it out
<cyphermox> I have a hard time explaining things outside the problem domain sometimes :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-17
<TheMuso> yay for -1 day SRUs. :p
<pitti> desrt: apport time delta> yes, we have that information at hand; I just wonder in what way this should be presented in the report; perhaps adding a new field if the delta between "crash happened" and "crash reported" is > 15 mins? or make better efforts to tell if it happened in the same session?
<pitti> desrt: I don't think merely showing the exact time delta is very useful, as it's hard to search/filter for
<RAOF> Wooo! Look at the 12.10 errors.ubuntu.com graph for colord. BOOYAH!
<pitti> RAOF vs. D-Bus 1:1 ?
<pitti> RAOF: wow, nice dip!
<didrocks> guten morgen pitti
<RAOF> pitti: I think I may have fixed ALL OF THE BUGS!
<pitti> still twice as many as 12.04, but that might be due to people still needing to upgrade?
<RAOF> Are the scales for 12.04 & 12.10 the same?
<pitti> RAOF: indeed, I stopped getting annoying apport bubbles for this a while ago \o/
<pitti> before that it seemed to be the way of quantal to say "good morning"
<pitti> hey didrocks, wie gehts?
<RAOF> Because I *know* that 12.04 is still terribly crashy and will remain so until colord moves into -proposed
<didrocks> pitti: I'm ok, yourself?
<pitti> quite fine
<pitti> RAOF: hm, I'd expect that, otherwise the graph would be really confusing
<pitti> RAOF: after all, the point of it is to allow comparisons?
<RAOF> I have no idea what the values on the axes mean :)
<RAOF> For example, on the 10th of October there were 0.11 $THINGS in 12.10.
<pitti> I think it's "crashes per user in the selected time frame" (1 day, 1 month, etc.)
<pitti> although, it's probably not that
<RAOF> Heh
<pitti> we don't know the #users
<RAOF> This is making a fairly persuasive point for âdoes anyone know what the vertical axis means exactlyâ :)
<RAOF> Presumably ev does.
<pitti> so obviously it's "Kilojiffies by Milliblurbs"
<maxb> The many ways of autostarting things in DMs are confusing :-/ .... indicator-cpufreq does it via /etc/xdg/autostart/, indicator-weather does it via X-GNOME-autostart-enabled=true in /usr/share/applications/ .... is one more correct ? Is there anywhere I can read about this stuff?
<RAOF> maxb: Does X-GNOME-autostart-enabled=true actually do anything?
<maxb> erm, good question
<maxb> I assumed it did since I found it in an official quantal package, but...
 * maxb logs out/in
<RAOF> maxb: /etc/xdg/autostart or ~/.config/autostart should be the set of (non-default) things that get started. (Technically, that's $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/autostart and $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/autostart)
<maxb> Er, right, that'll teach me to trust stuff in the archive ;-)
<BigWhale> Greetings all.
<desrt> pitti: i was also thinking it could be useful if there was some global state flag set when logging out
<desrt> or if we could find out if the machine rebooted since
<desrt> or if something like the xdg session cookie or dbus bus address was different in the crashing session and the one that 'notices' the crash
<desrt> these sort of things are more reliable than time passed (since that could happen for other reasons)
<desrt> but still not as great as a flag set at logout time
<desrt> because there could also be other reasons that a crash isn't noticed until logout/login even if the crash is not caused by the logout
<larsu> desrt, good morning :)
 * larsu is not used to seeing desrt around at this time
<seb128> hey desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> lut didrocks, ca va bien ?
<didrocks> seb128: on fait rouler :)
<didrocks> et toi?
<seb128> tout va bien icic ;-)
<pitti> desrt: re (sorry, was in a meeting)
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut, ca va ?
<pitti> desrt: apport actually already makes some effort to determine whether the crash happens during session shutdown
<pitti> desrt: and it's supposed to add a particular tag when you report a crash in a different session than the one it happened in, but that might be broken in some cases
<desrt> larsu: hi :)
<pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
<pitti> seb128: bien, merci!
<desrt> pitti: ah.  that's good news to know.  how do i look for that?
<larsu> pitti, guten morgen! Gut, und selbst?
<desrt> this channels speaks odd languages at this hour
<larsu> desrt, you're starting to sound like tedg ;)
<pitti> desrt: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~apport-hackers/apport/trunk/revision/2058 is supposed to catch the crashes during shutdown, but apparenlty it's not sufficient
<desrt> pitti: why would you think that this works?
<desrt> DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS doesn't magically disappear from the environment of a process when the bus goes away...
<pitti> desrt: right, but gnome-session sohuld either be gone, or its state should be "shutting down"
<desrt> oh
<desrt> you just use the environment variable to contact gnome-session
<desrt> right
<pitti> desrt: hm, I recently added in_session_of_problem() which would tell you whether or not you report a crash that happened in the currently running session
<pitti> desrt: but I just see that we don't seem to transform that into a tag
<pitti> odd, I certainly discussed that with ev, but apparently it slipped through the cracks
<desrt> pitti: glad to hear we're well on our way to a solution :)
<pitti> desrt: you can kind of infer it from the presence or absence of an ~/.xsession-errors attachment
<pitti> desrt: as we only attach it when the crash happened in the current session (otherwise xsession-errors is pointless)
<desrt> ah.  neat trick.
<pitti> but I guess a tag would be better
<desrt> i'll check that for now
<pitti> i. e. XsessionErrors
<pitti> desrt: but it'd probably be best if you file a bug with the thing you are actually looking for (that wouldn't be a time delta for sure, but some more fundamental property), and then I'll see how to incorporate this?
<seb128> pitti, the issue is that XsessionErrors is only there when there are errors matching your regexp to catch
<seb128> so it could be a new session or it could be that this issue didn't let any info in the log
<pitti> that's right; but in practice we always seem to have some warnings
<pitti> don't get me wrong, I don't think this is an ideal state, just saying where we currently use it
<pitti> I'd love to make it more explicit
<seb128> pitti, that's a nice trick, thanks for the hint ;-)
<desrt> pitti: okay
<desrt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/apport/+bug/1067646
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1067646 in apport "should report if crash happened at logout/shutdown" [Undecided,New]
<pitti> desrt: thanks; following up there
<pitti> seb128: ah, thanks for the other use cases of hw dependend service activation
<pitti> seb128: I still don't think that this is the main solution for our performance problems, but it's interesting nevertheless
<seb128> pitti, yw ;-) That's the thing I want upstart jobs the most for
<Laney> hallo
<seb128> pitti, well, it's not only performances, it's flexibility ... autostarts are pretty limited (only one condition) and happen only on session start
<seb128> we have no way atm to bring up a service when a key is set
<seb128> or bring it down when a key is unset
<seb128> key = gsettings key
<seb128> same for hardware events
<seb128> Laney, hey, how are you?
<pitti> *nod*; but would upstart be able to listen for gsettings changes?
<pitti> seb128: that rather seems to be a job for g-s-d to me?
<seb128> yes
<seb128> that's one of the things we asked for at last uds
<seb128> a gsettings bridge (or whatever they call the events generators)
<pitti> just like g-s-d starts/stops the trackpad polling process depending on the gsettings key
<rickspencer3> bonjour seb128, didrocks quel est la mots de la rue apropos le release?
<rickspencer3> (sorry for changing the topic ;) )
<rickspencer3> just humor me
<pitti> seb128: this would be a lot more upstream friendly
<pitti> bonjour rickspencer3
<didrocks> rickspencer3: quantal? c'est dÃ©jÃ  dÃ©passÃ©, on bosse sur les SRU :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, salut, on dirait qu'il y a toujours quelque problÃ¨me de secure boot sur certaines images
<seb128> rickspencer3, sinon c'est ok
 * rickspencer3 just sees "ok" and tunes out
<bryce> ah, must be le french invasionne hourre  ;-)
<rickspencer3> j/k
<seb128> pitti, well, I don't want g-s-d to become more of a kitchen sink, it's not g-s-d's job to take down the gwibber lens when there is not internet connection
<didrocks> bryce: "hourre"? "season" rather :p
<rickspencer3> til "on bosse sur"
<bryce> didrocks, hehe
<didrocks> or seaaaazone :p
<rodrigo_> hi
<pitti> seb128: right, but for wacom it might be
<rodrigo_> getting this error:
<rodrigo_> dpkg-source: error: cannot represent change to mesa-9.0/bin/install-sh:
<rodrigo_> dpkg-source: error:   new version is symlink to minstall
<rodrigo_> dpkg-source: error:   old version is nonexistent
<rodrigo_> no idea what it means :(
<seb128> pitti, yes, my examples suck, I didn't stop to think about proper ones
<didrocks> bryce: you shouldn't have showed up I guess ^ :p
<rodrigo_> hey seb128, pitti, didrocks!
<didrocks> hey rodrigo_ ;)
<pitti> hey rodrigo_
<seb128> rodrigo_, hey
<seb128> rodrigo_, what version of dpkg do you use? maybe try asking on #ubuntu-devel, the dpkg people are not on #desktop
<rodrigo_> 1.16.8 (amd64)
<rodrigo_> seb128, ok, I'll ask there
<Laney> urg
<Laney> I'm getting loads of weird crashes
<Laney> hope it's not faulty ram
<bryce> didrocks, nah, I shoved mesa9 into x-updates, I deserve all the complaints
<rodrigo_> bryce, oh, you already packaged it?
<didrocks> bryce: heh ;)
<rodrigo_> bryce, was trying to
 * Laney is going to run a quick memtest
<bryce> rodrigo_, no; tjaalton packaged mesa9 for quantal, I just copied it into x-updates ppa.  Is that where you're installing from?
<rodrigo_> bryce, no, I was trying to package it for the PPA you created for us
<rodrigo_> so, looking for the tjaalton's package, will just copy that one
<bryce> rodrigo_, yeah that'd be best
<rodrigo_> yes
<bryce> rodrigo_, btw I didn't merge your PPA into x-updates yet, but would like to do so when you feel it to be ready
<rodrigo_> bryce, yes, still waiting for more feedback, so not ready yet, will let you know as soon as it is
<rodrigo_> it works for me perfectly, but that's not enough testing :)
<bryce> :-)
<rodrigo_> with the mesa 9 update we should get more testing
<bryce> yeah agreed
<mvo> I guess that is a known issue, but compiz/xorg are using all my cpu after some time and make the system sluggish - thisis a intel video card
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<seb128> mvo, hey, not know afaik ...
<seb128> mvo, did you see the GTK guys fixed your leak in git ;-)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks. how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks
<seb128> chrisccoulson, shame that you didn't upload that tb messaging menu fix on monday, with the late respins it would have made it to the iso :-(
<seb128> chrisccoulson, they moved things from proposed to the iso still yesterday
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, i didn't realize that there were late respins :/
<chrisccoulson> never mind :(
<bryce> mvo, usually high xorg cpu is due to clients driving the X server beyond the norm. So try to identify which client app might be driving it.
<seb128> chrisccoulson, can we get the SRU rolling anyway?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, i'll upload it now
<seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
<mvo> seb128: very nice
<mvo> seb128: looks like its not one leak but multiple from looking at the git diff - but great to know that its fixed now
<seb128> mvo, well, the specific one you pointed seems to be one commit to destroy a cairo surface
<seb128> but cosimoc fixed other issues while he was at it
<mvo> bryce: thanks, this is my usual workload, i.e. xchat, firefox, mutt, emacs - but it now stopped (or is smaller, more like 10% cpu when typing here)
<mvo> bryce: is there anything I could do to debug when this happen next time? look at something like top to see what else is using high cpu?
<mvo> (crude, I know :/
<mvo> and here it is again
<bryce> hmm, there is xrestop but it mostly reports memory usage
<bryce> mvo, fwiw those four programs are also my four main programs.  (well, emacs -nox)
<bryce> firefox plugins can sometimes drive X.
<bryce> compiz plugins are another likely source, esp. if you have something non-default enabled
<mvo> bryce: its a pretty stock install, let me try xrestop
<bryce> mvo, if you kill a client app and the X.org CPU usage decreases, that's a good sign
<mvo> bryce: wellâ¦
<mvo> bryce: that caused a nice x crash
<bryce> awesome
<mvo> [200466.552] Caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault). Server aborting
<mvo> bryce: was this a trick ;) ?
<bryce> mvo, anything captured in /var/crash/ ?
<tjaalton> oh there's a bug about xrestop crashing
<bryce> tjaalton, oh?  just crashing itself or crashing xserver?
<tjaalton> xserver
<bryce> doh
<bryce> tjaalton, bug #?  sounds bad
<tjaalton> bug 1060059
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1060059 in xorg-server "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in ResFindAllRes()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1060059
<mvo> I reported it now using apport but it would not open a bugreport
<mvo> (after asking me a bunch of question like if I am willing to help debug)
<seb128> tjaalton, shrug, shouldn't "obvious xorg crasher" bugs be better triaged that non confirmed, medium, non assigned, non milestoned?
<bryce> tjaalton, sheesh.  wtf xserver...
<tjaalton> seb128: just remembered that it was reported
<seb128> tjaalton, who do I assign it to? ;-)
<seb128> it's milestoned for quantal-updates now fwiw :p
<tjaalton> I've been assigned to other tasks for the next few weeks..
<bryce> seb128, chill.  we have a lot of X crashes, but me and all the other X guys are tied up on various projects
<bryce> seb128, assign to canonical-x or escalate with jason for critical issues
 * mvo runs xrestop again just to see if its reproducable
<seb128> bryce, sorry, it's always annoying when we gets bugs that lead users to have their session to go down and close,loose any open work
<seb128> bryce, but understood, I know everyone is busy and stretched out :-(
<bryce> mvo, there is also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/HighCPU however it doesn't say much more than I've already mentioned.
<seb128> bryce, I've set it to triaged/high for now
<bryce> seb128, actually I set it triaged/high, but thanks :-)
<seb128> bryce, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1065113/+activity :p
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1065113 in xorg-server "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in free()" [High,New]
<seb128> bryce, yw ;-)
<seb128> shrugh, wrong bug
<seb128> anyway moving on ;-)
 * seb128 is trying to clean up the "quantal milestoned bugs" list
<mvo> pretty reliable
<bryce> seb128, but yes for the future either assign to me or to canonical-x, and I'll ensure they get assigned out to the right folks
<seb128> bryce, thanks
<bryce> seb128, sadly I guess *most* X.org bugs are of the "session goes down; lose your work" variety
<mvo> maybe we should stop recommending using it for now
<bryce> mvo, yeah now that I know, for sure.  Actually getting the crash fixed should be a top priority now.
<seb128> bryce, yeah, I figured so...
<mvo> lol - xvfb-run xrestop  is fine
<mlankhorst> bryce: well would help if we could start testing the quantal stack too but I kind of want the multiarch bug fixed first before I announce it for wider testing
<tjaalton> seb128, bryce: I should have a few spare cycles today, so I'll at least make sure it's sent upstream
<mlankhorst> this particular bug looks like it should be catchable with valgrind
<tjaalton> might even get a 0-day update for it, we'll see
<tjaalton> mlankhorst: don't mind you looking at it ;)
<tjaalton> maybe it was during the weekend when I saw duflu's bug about it go by
<tjaalton> so didn't react or test
<seb128> tjaalton, thanks
<mlankhorst> "Xorg crashed with SIGABRT in free()"
<bryce> mvo, typically the next step I suggest after identify possible client causes is to set up xtrace between server and (suspected) client, and see if what X calls it's making.  Most (but not all) high X.org CPU issues are due to an out of control client making excess X calls.
<mlankhorst> that's not really something we'd instantly notice though :x
<didrocks> desrt: hey, I think we'll need your help :p
<bryce> tjaalton, thanks
<tjaalton> mvo: it's also possible that the gpu is (partially) hung
<tjaalton> check dmesg
 * mlankhorst updating quantal
<tjaalton> i've seen that on precise a couple of times
<mvo> mlankhorst: that is blocking on me right ? that multiarch bug? sorry for that
<mlankhorst> np :)
<mvo> tjaalton: nothing suspicious in dmesg afaict
<tjaalton> mvo: and the system is not swapping?
<mvo> tjaalton: I doubt it, haven't checked, but it has 8gb of ram (can't check now as the session crashed so all memory hungry stuff is gone)
<tjaalton> ah, ok :)
<mvo> tjaalton: but I will remember to check next time :)
<mvo> could be firefox eating all my ram of course
<tjaalton> in theory there could be a huge pixmap leak or such causing it to swap
 * mvo nods
<mvo> good to know
<mlankhorst> and here I was hoping we didn't have such problems :p
<tjaalton> but those tend to stay, not vanish by itself
<tjaalton> oh well, lunch ->
<mhr3> seb128, gvfsd-http still leaking pretty bad, i think we can rule out that it was just outdated pkg on my system
<mhr3> seb128, can you rep? just open the dash and do random searches in shopping/music
<seb128> mhr3, you know how to valgrind and track leaks right, patches are welcome ;-)
<mhr3> seb128, i just can't take the joy from you :)
<seb128> mhr3, but yeah, confirmed
<mlankhorst> seb128: what screen reader does ubuntu use?
<seb128> mlankhorst, orca
<seb128> mlankhorst, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-orca
<mlankhorst> ah k
<didrocks> pitti: would you mind bumping https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa/+build/3910394 please? :)
<didrocks> pitti: it contains a worrying upgrade issue fix for SRU0 and I want it to have wider testing
<didrocks> (for compiz)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, you're stealing my PPA builders? ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: do you have an urgent upgrade issue? :p
<chrisccoulson> heh, not today ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, just upload that tb fix to proposed :p
<chrisccoulson> seb128, i uploaded it this morning ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: see, I can steal them gladely then! :)
<chrisccoulson> it's not been approved yet though
<seb128> chrisccoulson, \o/
<pitti> didrocks: done
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<pitti> didrocks: je suis dÃ©sole, j'Ã©tais au dÃ©jeuner
<didrocks> pitti: tu as de la chance, j'ai pas pu encore en avoir! Ã  cause de ce *Ã¹$*$Ã¹**mmfs de bug :-)
 * pitti hugs didrocks
<FlyingElvis> hello everyone...im new to ubuntu...just having ditched windows in the last week and put ubuntu on every computer in the house, and while everything is going fine...is there a FULL list of keyboard commands?
<mlankhorst> hold the key between control and alt?
<FlyingElvis> yes i know of that...but thats all the commands?
<FlyingElvis> all and all im really impressed with ubuntu...and the rest of the family are finding it easy to use also
<mlankhorst> :-)
<cyphermox> morning :)
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, how are you?
<cyphermox> seb128: not bad, you?
<seb128> cyphermox, I'm good thanks
<chrisccoulson> maaaaan, trying to get the background of a tooltip to render on to the surface of another window is a PITA
<sil2100> desrt: ok, so currently the decision is - no per-relocatable-schema overrides in gsettings?
<desrt> yes
<desrt> the unity package should override all of the plugins that it wants to
<desrt> not just the plugin list
<didrocks> hum the discussion started on another channel?
<sil2100> desrt: currently it's a bit hard with the current way things are
<didrocks> desrt: the issue is that we have 2 profiles
<didrocks> desrt: and the profiles are different depending on the session you start
<didrocks> (and it's using different locations)
<sil2100> Since in this case we won't be able to use overrides for this purpose really
<didrocks> hey desrt btw :p
<didrocks> (sorry, jumping into the discussion as it seems you are speaking about the issue we had)
<sil2100> Since the case is we need like 2 different overrides, each for every profile, as didrocks says - so not sure if we can use overrides in this way
<sil2100> didrocks: good that you joined in, I was expecting that even! :)
<didrocks> sil2100: not sure what the beginning of the discussion was, but well, I think that desrt needs and deserves to have the full story :p
<didrocks> otherwise, this means a dconf *writes* at first login :)
<didrocks> and I know desrt doesn't like that!
<desrt> i don't want to add a complicated feature to gsettings that will really only support a single (very weird) usecase
<didrocks> desrt: what do you suggest that we do in that case?
<desrt> and hopefully this one user will be gone soon enough...
<desrt> didrocks: install overrides
<didrocks> desrt: but we already do that
<desrt> and don't expect a gnome session to work on the same machine as a unity session
<sil2100> didrocks: I know you'll be mad at me, but I gave desrt the whole story on priv... then I got enlighted that I'm talking in private, so I moved the discussion here
<sil2100> ;(
<didrocks> desrt: ok, so waiting for the fallback session to die
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, please stop this habit :(
<sil2100> didrocks: it's getting better though, since I understood this myself and corrected my behavior this time ;)!
<desrt> so here's one possibility
<chrisccoulson> heh, https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/status/258569723481055233 ;)
<desrt> the compizconfig abstraction is pretty... impressive
<desrt> why not just have a second set of schemas in there?
<desrt> like, instead of installing overrides, the unity session could install new copies of the schemas
<desrt> with some prefix or something....
<jcastro_> chrisccoulson: do not listen to him, get to work.
<chrisccoulson> lol
<desrt> chrisccoulson: you be scrollin', they be hatin'
<sil2100> I think that's what was being done with GConf
<didrocks> desrt: I think that relocatable schemas were exactly for those purposes, isn't it?
<desrt> didrocks: no
<sil2100> desrt: so I think that's why we're using relocatable schemas
<desrt> didrocks: they were made for the case where you have multiple accounts, for example
<desrt> and each account has user/password/host/port/etc type settings
<sil2100> Ok, in this use-case, you only need one pair of overrides usually
<didrocks> desrt: don't you think we can have "types of accounts" with exactly the same parameter, by different default values?
<desrt> didrocks: i guess it's unusual to have some account parameters set by default
<desrt> for only one account....
<didrocks> desrt: ok, I'm fine with the hack for quantal, as I think the profile thingy will die soon
<desrt> i'll look the other way when you write to dconf :)
<didrocks> desrt: heh, and worse, I have to use dconf itself because of the revert :p
<didrocks> desrt: but we'll discuss this at UDS I guess
<didrocks> (revert bug)
<sil2100> ;)
<desrt> didrocks: it's always your option to install a dconf override :)
<desrt> it's really the same issue as we've had 1000 times before
<didrocks> desrt: heh, indeed :)
<desrt> we want one set of settings in one session and another in another
<didrocks> desrt: rings me a bell :p
 * sil2100 remembers setting once both gsettings and dconf override for the same thing just to be sure it's overridden
<sil2100> Not really proud of that one
<chrisccoulson> oh crap
<chrisccoulson> firefox is loading 2 different copies of sqlite in to memory
<chrisccoulson> it's own copy, and the system copy :(
<chrisccoulson> i wonder how this has not completely broken already
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<seb128> Laney, do you run your glib update?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> well, without the cherry-pick
<seb128> Laney, does "gresource details /usr/bin/nautilus" works?
<Laney> seb128: nope, "gresource is built without elf support"
<seb128> Laney, ok, your "drop libelf-dev build-depends" is buggy :p
<Laney> huh, weird
<seb128> $ gresource details /usr/bin/nautilus
<seb128> nautilus    206 u /org/gnome/nautilus/icons/knob.png
<seb128> nautilus    482 u /org/gnome/nautilus/icons/thumbnail_frame.png
<seb128> nautilus  18004 c /org/gnome/nautilus/nautilus-bookmarks-window.ui
<seb128> ...
<seb128> on quantal
<seb128> well
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/117502434/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.glib2.0_2.34.0-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<seb128> checking for LIBELF... no
<seb128> checking for elf_begin in -lelf... yes
<seb128> checking for elf_getshdrstrndx in -lelf... yes
<seb128> ...
<Laney> yeah i was going to compare that
<Laney> still testsuiting atm
<Laney> so it did do something before
<seb128> Laney, well anyway gresource doing "gresource is built without elf support" is the reason why I added that build-depends in quantal :p
<seb128> not sure why Josselin though it was the wrong lib...
<Laney> no, it's fine, I just believed the changelog from joss
<seb128> there are 2 elf libs though, one used to be in universe
<seb128> so we might prefer the other one compared to debian (I know that was the case for bud-buddy by then)
<Laney> it's true that libelf-dev doesn't ship a pcfile
<rickspencer3> seb128, does turning on accessibility slow down the desktop a little? and is accessibility required to be on to use onboard?
<seb128> Laney, right, but the configure doesn't check for one, it checks for .h also
<Laney> correct
<Laney> putting it back
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, using chromium-browser how does webapps let me (for example) work with gmail? i installed unity-webapps-gmail but i dont' know how it's supposed to work
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> rickspencer3, my gut feeling is that it does slow down thing yes, and it's not required for onboard afaik
<pitti> hello tkamppeter
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, you should get prompted to integrate
<kenvandine> and you shouldn't need to install the package yourself
<kenvandine> that should happen automatically
<bcurtiswx> hmm
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, even if I already had a gmail account setup and logged in before webapps was integrated ?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> well
<kenvandine> installing the package isn't integrating
<kenvandine> you need to click yes in the infobar
<kenvandine> when it prompts you
<kenvandine> does it work in firefox?
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, yes it does (noticed i haven't used firefox in a while)
<kenvandine> so you got prompted, and after accepting it you see the launcher for it?
<rickspencer3> thanks seb128
<bcurtiswx> i get prompted yes, haven't gone through to see the launcher.  I wanted to use chromium-browser
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, you should get prompted in chromium as well
<kenvandine> oh
<kenvandine> do you have unity-chromium-extension installed?
<bcurtiswx> i did not
<bcurtiswx> installing now
<bcurtiswx> is it not a dep on chromium-browser?
<kenvandine> nope
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, in order for the gmail webapp to work with chromium it seems to need an "untitled" chromium icon even with the gmail icon in unity
<tkamppeter> pitti, hi
<pitti> hello tkamppeter
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, yes
<kenvandine> that activates the spread
<kenvandine> for current webapp browser windows
<tkamppeter> pitti, it is about the missing /etc/apparmor.d/local/usr.sbin.cupsd file in our cups package. Is this preventing Quantal from being freshly installed or running as live CD?
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, that just doesn't seem right to me. i will never need to click on that "untitled" chromium icon it's a waste of space in my launcher bar
<pitti> tkamppeter: it shouldn't even start if it that were the case, so the image build should fail
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, i didn't design it :)
<tkamppeter> pitti, bug 1026921
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1026921 in cups "package cups 1.5.3-0ubuntu1 failed to instal/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026921
<bcurtiswx> who did ?
<tkamppeter> pitti, is this file really required (explicitly referenced by another file in standard config)?
<pitti> tkamppeter: I don't know, I just saw the report today the first time; jdstrand should know
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, nuthinking
<kenvandine> bcurtiswx, file a bug explaining what you don' tlike
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, of course :)
<jdstrand> tkamppeter, pitti: an #include file in an apparmor profile must exist, yes
<kenvandine> i've expressed my opinion on the topic already :)
<bcurtiswx> kenvandine, do you have a bug about it ?
<jdstrand> otherwise the parser will fail
<kenvandine> no
<pitti> jdstrand: curious how this ever worked for a default  install then
<kenvandine> i just complained to him
<jdstrand> does it use dh_apparmor? it will create it for you
<pitti> ooh
<pitti> jdstrand: yes, that's it
<pitti> jdstrand: it's created in postinst, I had assumed it was a conffile
<pitti> jdstrand: thanks!
<pitti> tkamppeter: so I guess the reporter just deleted it
<jdstrand> pitti: right-- the local/* is intentionally *not* a conffile. this is for site local additions so people don't have to deal with conffile prompts on upgrades
<pitti> tkamppeter: merely creating an empty file should be okay, or sudo dpkg-reconfigure cups should also do
<tkamppeter> pitti, so there is no bug which have to be fixed?
<pitti> tkamppeter: apparenlty not, it can go back to invalid
<tkamppeter> pitti, can you upload Cairo for me, bug 1063618? Thanks.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1063618 in cairo "PDF printing output of evince broken with PDF file from "Der Spiegel"" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063618
<seb128> tkamppeter, pitti: I can upload cairo if pitti didn't start on it
<BigWhale> seb128, great thread about GNOME plans on ubuntu-desktop.
<pitti> I didn't yet, sorry (still in #u-server debugging juju)
<tkamppeter> seb128, OK, thanks in advance
<pitti> seb128, tkamppeter ^
<seb128> BigWhale, thanks ;-)
<seb128> pitti, ok, I'm looking at it you can consider yourself unpinged
<seb128> tkamppeter, thank you for backporting those patches ... did you confirm they fix your issue?
<tkamppeter> seb128, yes, they fix the problem for me.
<seb128> tkamppeter, can you update the bug with the SRU informations? (Impact, Test Case, Regression Potential)?
<tkamppeter> seb128, will do
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks, I'll uploaded the package for you
<robru> mhr3: ping
<mhr3> robru, pong
<robru> mhr3: hey. so kenvandine tells me that you are the guy to talk to about Dee indexing and performance
<mhr3> robru, try me :)
<robru> mhr3: we have a Dee.SharedModel and the problem is that we're trying to populate it with rows that come from a highly-duplicated source, so we need quite a bit of duplicate-checking logic before adding rows...
<robru> mhr3: so our original solution was to index the row data in a python dict, and then consult the dict before publishing new rows to the model
<robru> mhr3: that worked fine at first, but now we're persisting the sharedmodel inside a resourcemanager, and what's happening is that when we restore the sharedmodel, it has a bunch of rows that are no longer in our dicts (because the python script starts up fresh with empty dicts...)
<robru> mhr3: so I wrote a really naive piece of code that just scans the sharedmodel on startup, and populates the dicts with the index data we need
<robru> mhr3: but we were hoping that Dee might have a better solution for this.
<robru> mhr3: https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/friends/persistence/+merge/130009 here is some code to consider
 * mhr3 looking
<robru> mhr3: it gets complicated because we can't just index on a single column; we have two columns that must be unique when concatenated, and then we have this other column that's a list, and the list is going to have a lot of elements, but those elements also need to be uniquely indexable.
<robru> mhr3: (that sounds a bit insane when I say it like that... maybe we need to consider a different model schema ;-)
<mhr3> sounds likely :)
<mhr3> but, as long as there's a way to keep the rows sorted, not even multiple columns is problem
<mhr3> then you get fast lookups
<robru> mhr3: ok, so we can introduce a new column that contains a unique key, that won't be hard. but that other column that's a list, we still need to somehow index the rows based on the elements of that list.
<mhr3> robru, did you see insert_row_sorted?
<robru> mhr3: no ;-)
<robru> mhr3: I'm quite new to Dee stuff.
<mhr3> if you can come up with a cmp_func that will keep the model uniquely sorted, then you can find whether a particular row is already in the model in log(n), ie fast :)
<mhr3> (find_row_sorted)
<robru> mhr3: ok, I think I follow, but that's still only half the problem.
<micahg> Laney: I'm planning on doing a webkit update for quantal for 1.10.1, is there anything that I need to include (or wait for you to figure out about it, I see you have a PPA build going)
<robru> mhr3: that takes care of the two columns that we need to concatenate for uniqueness (I'll make a new column for that post-concatenation, and then we can insert and find on that, sorted)
<Laney> micahg: do you have something special over that build?
<robru> mhr3: but also there's this other column that's a list. we need a way to query the model for "does this value exist in any of the lists in any of the rows in this particular column"
<robru> in a fast way
<Laney> it's going in that ppa so I can test arm
<mhr3> robru, so you need two indices?
<robru> mhr3: yes
<robru> mhr3: the concatenated column to index on will just be utf8 text, so a simple lexical cmp should work fine.
<mhr3> it's doable with filtermodel, but you'll have to rebuild the filtermodel everytime
<mhr3> ie. the filtermodel will be sorted in a different way than the original model (but it still points to the same data), so you'll just use the list to create your new sorting
<robru> mhr3: but the other problem is that because we've de-duplicated messages, we have a many-to-one relationship between message ids and rows in the model. so we're storing these ids in a list. so each row has multiple ids, but we occaisionally will just have one of the ids, and then need to find that row. currently we're doing it with a python dict
<mhr3> (oh by everytime i mean only when the process starts)
<mhr3> robru, so one row has multiple ids? and those are stored in the list?
<robru> mhr3: sorry, I was simplifying a bit ;-) we have a column that's of type 'aas', that is, an array of an array of strings. the inner arrays are all of length 3, and the outer array will be of varying lengths from row to row. some rows will only have one inner array, some rows will have many. but occaisionally we're going to only know one of the inner arrays, and we need to be able to find the row using just the inner array.
<mhr3> well you need a way to create an index from that, otherwise you can't do fast lookup
<robru> mhr3: so basically one column in a row might look like [['website', 'account_id', 'message_id'], ['other_site', 'other_acct', 'other_msg']] and we'll need to find that row using only ['website', 'account_id', 'message_id']
<robru> mhr3: that's what I'm asking you! ;-) how do we index this properly?
<mhr3> i'm trying to remember if you can put the same backing row multiple times into the filtermodel, but i'm not sure
<robru> mhr3: currently we keep those triples as dict keys, and the dict values are RowIters. it works ok but we have to rebuild the dict every launch.
<mhr3> well, you'd have to rebuild it even if you used dee, don't think you can avoid that
<robru> mhr3: we were hoping that whatever indexing options Dee gives us, we could persist with ResourceManager ;-)
<mhr3> you could try denormalizing the model, so you'd end up with two (or more)
<robru> mhr3: I don't know what that means ;-)
<mhr3> it means you have too much data in that single cell :)
<micahg> Laney: no, I just wanted to push it as a security update :)
<robru> mhr3: is there any way that I could have a second Model that has an one column for the ids, and a second column for rowiters that point back to the first Model? eg, any way to store a DeeRowIter inside a SharedModel in a meaningful way?
<micahg> Laney: I probably won't upload at least until tomorrow sometime (Monday would be fine as well)
<mhr3> robru, no, you'd need to basically copy a column with the unique id into the second model (where it wouldn't be unique)
<Laney> micahg: feel free to sponsor my upload into -security if you like ;)
<Laney> save me the SRU pain
<robru> mhr3: oooooohhhhhhhh! that's actually not half bad!
<micahg> Laney: yeah, that could work, could you let me know how the tests go
<mhr3> robru, we're basically talking sql tables here, you know that? :)
<Laney> ok
<robru> mhr3: yeah, I know ;-)
<Laney> should pop out towards the end of tomorrow
<robru> mhr3: not my fault, it's the data's fault for being structured this way. I'm just trying to figure out the most efficient DeeModel schema to represent it...
<mhr3> robru, and since you need quite complex indexing i'm starting to wonder why your data isn't in sql? :)
<robru> mhr3: because Dee.SharedModels are just so sexy, and we needed to be able to share this data over dbus *anyway*
<mhr3> +1 on the sexiness :)
<robru> mhr3: I actually like your idea of using the unique key non-uniquely in a second model, I think I can make that work. and if you say that the *_sorted methods are log(n) then this should be fast! also being able to persist that second model will stop us having to re-scan at launch. brilliant!
<robru> mhr3: thanks!
<mhr3> robru, the only problem is that you then need to make sure the two models are always in sync, otherwise dragons will come
<mhr3> if for example you manage to write to disc one but not the other... uh oh
<mhr3> plus it increases required storage space :/
<micahg> Laney: actually, nevermind, I thought they would've included CVE fixes, but it's bug fix only, so I won't be pushing it after all
<micahg> ogra_: ^^ laney is testing webkit on arm, I won't be touching it until the next point release
<robru> mhr3: what is the storage space like for ResourceManager?
<robru> mhr3: also, I was curious if you knew of any upper limits regarding how many rows a SharedModel can reasonably contain before performance becomes an issue.
<mhr3> robru, well, everytime you init a shared model it's broadcast on the bus, so you'll probably end up being limited by dbus msg size
<robru> mhr3: the whole model is transmitted in a single message?
<robru> mhr3: does it have any ability to split that up over messages?
<mhr3> currently no
<mhr3> if you need to transfer that much data over dbus, it's bad
<robru> mhr3: I ask because as it currently stands, we have written an algorithm that endlessly gathers data and dumps it into a SharedModel, forever. And the model persists, and there's not yet any logic for expiring old data. so it's just going to grow and grow and grow, and I'm wondering what kind of limits we can expect to hit.
<mhr3> you should add that logic :)
<robru> I will, but that's why I'm asking. should I discard the oldest data after there's 1,000 rows in the model? 10,000? a million? I have no idea.
<mhr3> i'd make sure the model isn't larger than 8mb
<robru> mhr3: and how would i measure that? can the resourcemanager tell me how much space it's taking?
<robru> mhr3: can I find the file where it's persisting it to?
<robru> ;-)
<mhr3> figure out how big is a row on average on go by that
<mhr3> but yea, it's saved somewhere, just not sure where exactly :)
<robru> mhr3: hmmmm, that's highly variable ;-) but ok, I'll work on some averages.
<mhr3> robru, you probably want to look at FileResourceManager.primary_path prop
<robru> mhr3: ah, thanks
<mhr3> hm, it even has getter method
<tkamppeter> seb128, pitti, bug 1063618 updated
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1063618 in cairo "PDF printing output of evince broken with PDF file from "Der Spiegel"" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063618
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<desrt> m_conley: ping
<m_conley> desrt: pong
<desrt> m_conley: i'm right next door :)
<desrt> with will (new hire on the desktop team)
<m_conley> desrt: you're in the community space? Cool. :)
<chrisccoulson> desrt, oh, nice. lucky you ;)
<m_conley> desrt: haven't seen you in a while - been travelling I guess?
<desrt> yup
<desrt> get to leave again on saturday for UDS
<m_conley> classic desrt
<desrt> your security situation here is getting pretty intense, eh?
<m_conley> desrt: in what way?
<m_conley> (I don't remember what it was like when you were here last...)
<desrt> someone guarding the door, no longer open to non-mozilla hackers, etc.
<m_conley> ah
<m_conley> well
<m_conley> they need to be vouched
<desrt> you going to CPH, btw?
<m_conley> desrt: hm, not sure what CPH is, so probably not. I'm dialing back the travel for a little while. I want to stay put for a little while. :)
<desrt> copenhagen
<Nafallo> m_conley: Copenhagen
<m_conley> ah
<m_conley> that's where the next UDS is, I guess? Yeah, I remember andreasn mentioning it
<desrt> he's not on the formal invite list but i think he's going to pop in for a couple of days
<desrt> his brother lives just across the river
<m_conley> right, right
<m_conley> I remember now
<m_conley> cool. :)
<m_conley> desrt: I'll probably join you over there in a bit
<desrt> cool
<chrisccoulson> desrt, m_conley, we need a UDS near the mozilla office ;)
<m_conley> We do! Come to Toronto!
<m_conley> we...have....some cool stuff sometimes
<chrisccoulson> heh, i'm sure you do :)
<m_conley> we have a pretty cool lake
<m_conley> the tower's all crazy-lit at night
<m_conley> and we have crazy varieties of food
<seb128> but you don't let insiders in anymore it seems? :p
<m_conley> I'm talkin' Toronto
<Nafallo> that might be a tad much of the crazies ;-)
<chrisccoulson> i'd enjoy it. it would make a nice change from the US and europe ;)
<Nafallo> how about crazy Internet speeds? :-P
<seb128> you start sounding like desrt
<chrisccoulson> heh
<m_conley> for MoTo, you just need to be vouched, I believe. I think it also helps if you're a Mozillian.
<seb128> he keeps advertising the variety of food you can get in Toronto and how cheap it is
<Nafallo> hrm. isn't Toronto Canada or something?
<m_conley> Toronto is indeed Canada.
<m_conley> WE ARE CANADA
<Nafallo> that might have been the reason it's not on the list then ;-)
<Nafallo> I can't remember the reason, but I think there might be one.
<m_conley> polar-bear aversion?
<Nafallo> ehrm, Canada != the North Pole, no :-)
<Nafallo> and I don't think the North Pole have sufficient Internets.
<Nafallo> the polar bears ate them all!
<m_conley> this is true
<Nafallo> that said, I don't think bears would be a problem.
<Nafallo> concidering they went to Australia back in the days, with 90% of the world's dangerous animals... I don't think bears would come close :-)
<desrt> m_conley: toronto is not "real canada", i hear :)
<desrt> m_conley: but seriously... back me up on the insane variety of awesome food at cheap prices
<m_conley> this is true
<m_conley> we have a helluva lot of what desrt said
<chrisccoulson> i like the sounds of this a lot
 * desrt note sthat he has not been to khao san road in a while...
<m_conley> it's delicious
<Nafallo> London for UDS... just rent the Olympic Stadium or something...
<xnox> Nafallo: the Olympic Park is getting disassembled and sold in parts. One building sold to germany, the other elsewhere. Some buildings will stay, but the stadium will be smaller....
<Nafallo> yeah, I heard something about that.
<chrisccoulson> yay, no menubar in panel with the latest firefox nightly
<chrisccoulson> FML
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I told you that last week!
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, the nightly only broke for me today :/
<Nafallo> â¥ vimperator
<Nafallo> :emenu FTW
<chrisccoulson> i don't use vimperator. the only addons i install are development aids or addons that i've written ;)
<Nafallo> :-P
<Nafallo> be without menu then :-D
<Nafallo> it also makes people think twice before they try to borrow your browser ;-)
<chrisccoulson> it's ok. i've found the problem and fixed it already ;)
<Nafallo> *sigh* developers... ;-)
<attente> seb128: i'm trying to use quilt to apply the patches on gtk+ minus the menu proxy patch
<attente> but getting an error due to the later patches depending on that one
<attente> is there a way to resolve it without resorting to hand-modifying the patches?
<seb128> attente, you can use quilt -f to force it anyway, fix the conflicts and then quilt refresh to update it
<seb128> bbiab
<attente> seb128: how do you turn off the symbol checks and variants when running debuild?
<seb128> attente, edit debian/rules
<seb128> DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_$(SHARED_PKG) += -V --add-udeb=$(UDEB_PKG) -- -c4
<seb128> drop the "-- -c4"
<seb128> same for the gail line
<attente> thanks
<desrt> not dropping the --add-udeb?
<seb128> attente, you can man dpkg-gensymbols to see the -c level details
<desrt> we want to only build the 'normal' variant...
<seb128> desrt, well you can hack the build to not generate an udeb if you want, that was not the question
<desrt> seb128: 'checks and variants'
<seb128> desrt, that's not an available feature, I've a local diff hack I apply for that though ...we should turn it into an official build option
<seb128> desrt, good exercice for attente? ;-)
<desrt> heh
<desrt> getting rid of 'make check' would also be nice
<desrt> seb128: you know that he has not officially started work yet, right? :)
<seb128> desrt, yeah, you are the ones coming with questions though ;-)
<seb128> desrt, so I'm just saying 'patches are welcome' :p
<FlyingElvis> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ATG9fJYoB-k/UH7GCH-atxI/AAAAAAAAeiQ/btFIneKjAsg/s582/MRsays.png
<xnox> should I be making merge proposals for lp:ubuntu/indicator-session or lp:indicator-session . It's a bugfix for 13.04.
<bjsnider> jbicha, bug 1067933
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1067933 in mutter "Reloading shell with Alt-F2 r loses all workspaces but first 2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1067933
<bjsnider> did everything there i know how to. i have seen gnome bugs linked, and i don't know how to go about that.
<jbicha> bjsnider: do you know how to be a debdiff?
<jbicha> *make a debdiff?
<RAOF> bjsnider: You're after the âAlso affects projectâ link, and then you just past in your bugzilla url.
<sarnold> hehe, *be* the debdiff. *feel* the debdiff. *become* the debdiff. *be one* with the debdiff.
<bryce> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1195
<bryce> Raring Ringtail :-)
<jbicha> because here's the deal: it's not important enough of a bug to me for me to cherry-pick that patch...but I'm happy to see other people get involved in (gnome) packaging so I'll sponsor it for you if you do the work
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-18
<bjsnider> jbicha, will do
<bjsnider> RAOF, thanks. will do
<bjsnider> oh, you already did it
<RAOF> bjsnider: Well, you won't, because I've already done it :). But next time that's what you're after :)
<bjsnider> ain't that a kick in the pants
<bjsnider> jbicha, are you going to touch the changelog yourself, or should i worry about which pocket to use? should it be quantal or -proposed?
<jbicha> bjsnider: yes, please add an entry to debian/changelog, you can leave the release at UNRELEASED if you like
<bjsnider> coolio
<jbicha> but at this point uploads will be rejected if they aren't for -proposed
<pitti> Good morning
<jasoncwarner_> Raring Ringtail indeed, bryce  ;)
<kenvandine_> hey jasoncwarner_
<jasoncwarner_> hey kenvandine_
<jasoncwarner_> how are things?
<kenvandine_> good
<kenvandine_> looking forward to copenhagen :)
<jasoncwarner_> kenvandine_: indeed! I leave here soon (you know...other side of hte world and all). I'm sure you get to leave on Sunday or something ;)
<kenvandine_> yeah :)
<kenvandine_> saturday
<kenvandine_> arrive sunday morning :)
<jasoncwarner_> so, you leave after me and you get in before me :/
<kenvandine_> hehe
<kenvandine_> i have just one stop this time too... i love that
<didrocks> good morning
<RAOF> Aloha didrocks!
<didrocks> hey RAOF, seems we have name!
<RAOF> Indeed. Hello, possums!
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> how are you?
<RAOF> Pretty good.
<pitti> hey didrocks
<didrocks> morning pitti
<pitti> didrocks: feeling quantal today?
<didrocks> pitti: more raging TBH! :)
<pitti> didrocks: (not raring?)
<pitti> too late for raging towards quantal, I guess
<didrocks> pitti: ok, I already mispelled it once! :p
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, had some fun yesterday with compizâ¦ was my latest "raging towards quantal" I guess
 * pitti hugs didrocks, amen
 * didrocks hugs pitti back
 * pitti is still impressed by "juju deploy --repository ~/ubuntu/charms local:jhbuild jhbuild"
<pitti> (jibel's work)
<didrocks> I want to have an opportunity to use juju, didn't get the time though :/
<pitti> I just used it the first time yesterday
<didrocks> pitti: you don't have too much the impression it's running scripts on your machine and that it can be fragile?
<didrocks> (well, I trust jibel's scripting ;))
<pitti> didrocks: well, I'm using the CanoniStack cloud, not local LXC containers
<pitti> so it's not running that much on my workstation
<didrocks> ah, ok, so you don't see the full remote story, just see the end result! :)
<didrocks> I really need to take some time playing with that
<pitti> but either way, all the charms run in containers/VMs, so they can hack up those pretty much any way they like
<pitti> didrocks: well, you can see the log of what the charm does, all the apt-get installs, creating files, etc.
<pitti> I wouldn't run _that_ part on my normal user account, of course
<pitti> charms assume they have complete control over the machine
<didrocks> pitti: ahah, something similar like the launchpad script? "If you had a postgresql database, you can wave it goodbye right now" :)
<pitti> heh
<pitti> didrocks: yeah, except that juju doesn't run them on your host
<pitti> of course you could try hard and manually run the individual files/scripts in the charm, but ordinarily you wouldn't even have the actual charm on your machine
<didrocks> yeah, sounds saner. I should try to play with that between my server and my laptop
<didrocks> heh, indeed
<pitti> didrocks: you can just use the CanoniStack for playing around; getting credentials is a matter of seconds, and there's no other registration etc. to do
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, I think I'll try between now and Monday :)
<didrocks> just need to find something to deploy to play with ;)
<pitti> didrocks: how about jhbuild with https://code.launchpad.net/unity-jhbuild :)
<didrocks> pitti: will have a try at that, yeah :)
<smspillaz> desrt: hey I just saw your note about relocatable schemas on gddl - should we just change all of the ones in compiz to be relocatable=yes now ?
<smspillaz> or will things break ?
<rickspencer3> hey all
<rickspencer3> whats the word on the street for 12.10 today?
<bryce> hi rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> heya bryce
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey, we are getting close from release ;-)
<rickspencer3> seb128, yeah ... any last issues, or does 12.10 seem baked and ready to go?
<seb128> rickspencer3, it seems like the foundation guys finally managed to fix the secure boot issues that have been raising through the week
<seb128> rickspencer3, looks good to me, fingers crossed!
<rickspencer3> seb128, is there another respin planned for today? or was last nights the last one?
 * rickspencer3 looks in #ubuntu-release ;)
<seb128> rickspencer3, not respin planned that I know about
<rickspencer3> \o/
 * rickspencer3 goes back to champaign and cigars
<didrocks> hey rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hey didrocks
 * rickspencer3 burp
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> too much champaign already? :)
<rickspencer3> yeah
<rickspencer3> :)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, seb128 are you guys raring for 13.04?
<seb128> rickspencer3, really raring ryes ;-)
<pitti> *chuckle*
<seb128> rickspencer3, I learnt a few words again today :p
<didrocks> rickspencer3: completely! and I want hope to see some opossums at UDS :)
<pitti> rickspencer3: juju deploy beer!
<didrocks> s/want//
<seb128> pitti, hey ;-)
<seb128> pitti, is that the new sudo make me a sandwish? :p
<larsu> morning everyone
<pitti> seb128: yeah, except that you can instantiate 10 beers at once
<pitti> hey larsu
<seb128> larsu, howdy
<didrocks> seb128: seems you even don't need sudo, looks better :)
<didrocks> hey larsu
<pitti> seb128: I'm actually hacking on the jhbuild charm now, this is fun :)
<seb128> pitti, waouh, that sounds like dangerous :p
 * seb128 dispatches the beers around the channel
<pitti> seb128: ze powah *burp* of ze c-c-c-loud
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> beers at this time?
<seb128> larsu, are you german or what? :p
<larsu> seb128, ha, I guess you're right. And anyway, it's after 6 somewhere in the world...
<seb128> larsu, and we don't release a quantal every day ;-)
<bryce> rickspencer3, 13.04 is going to be awesome.  If only we could get unity working properly on nexus 7.  my kingdom for a nux developer!  ;-)
<rickspencer3> bryce, we'll get there!
<bryce> rickspencer3, yep
<pitti> bryce: or for porting to gtk and clutter? :-)
<rickspencer3> <pitti> rickspencer3: juju deploy beer!
<rickspencer3> LOL
 * didrocks hopes the nux developers can first fix a FTBFS on armhf :)
<rickspencer3> perfect
<didrocks> (that we have for a week)
<rickspencer3> hey, surely someone can hop into the nux code and take a look?
<rickspencer3> :)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: well, trying to get the integration team and upstream having a look for a week
<rickspencer3> didrocks, I mean one you guys can take a look!
<didrocks> rickspencer3: seems duflu just had a fix, crossing fingers
<rickspencer3> sweet
<rickspencer3> \o/
<rickspencer3> that's great news
<bryce> rickspencer3, trust me, plenty of hopping happening.  just none of us are experienced with nux
<bryce> but we'll get it figured out, I'm sure.
<rickspencer3> "plenty of hopping" ;)
<didrocks> rickspencer3: had other work to do (ask seb, I wasn't waiting and crossing fingers even yesterday with some emergency compiz fixes I had to do)
<rickspencer3> didrocks, well, I was thinking about people in addition to you :)
<rickspencer3> for example, so far as I can tell, robert_ancel can do anything
<rickspencer3> I remember he used to fix basicaly *any* problem while I slept in Seattle
<rickspencer3> :)
<seb128> ;-)
<rickspencer3> he's wake up, I'd tell him about a problem, and it would be Fix Committed when I woke up
<seb128> the rocking robert_ancell
<rickspencer3> indeed!
<rickspencer3> dang, I should call him about my personal life
<rickspencer3> let him fix that while I sleep
<seb128> lol
<seb128> nah, it's all ours in desktop
<bryce> in fact robert has got a nexus 7 now and is on the case.  RAOF too.  So I can't imagine the bug remaining unstomped for long.
<seb128> you don't get to play that card anymore ;-)
<seb128> it's->he's
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
 * bryce waves to chrisccoulson 
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
 * chrisccoulson waves to bryce
<jibel> didrocks, I'm retesting compiz from -proposed, previous upgrade didn't pick the right version
<didrocks> jibel: we already got 3 confirm in addition to you 2 from the ppa, please do if you have time, but it's not mandatory anymore I guess
<rickspencer3> personally, I'm pretty happy with how 13.04 turned out
<rickspencer3> we made some great progress with features
<rickspencer3> and it is solid as a rock on my computers
<didrocks> rickspencer3: you meant, 12.10? I guess
<didrocks> do you have a secret preview of the 13.04 iso? ;)
<rickspencer3> oops
<rickspencer3> lol
<rickspencer3> I mean 12.10
<didrocks> rickspencer3: too late, I want the 13.04 iso! ;-)
<rickspencer3> I am happy with how 12.10 turned out, and I'm pumped about 13.04
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, you're not ambitious enough. you should be pushing for 14.04 already ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: speaking of being ambitious, I finally got the gdb stacktrace when thunderbird hangs on close for me
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: want to have a look? :)
<bryce> rickspencer3, me and my graphs.  Bu tI think it looks a lot better than past releases: http://www.bryceharrington.org/Arsenal/ubuntu-x-swat/Reports/totals-quantal-workqueue.svg
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, awesome. yes please :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1286546/
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: so the ui has been closed for long (like hours)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: and when I try to click on the launcher icon "thunderbird is already runningâ¦"
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, did you get the other threads by any chance?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: urgh, I thought I did thread apply all
<chrisccoulson> it looks like it's waiting on another thread to finish something
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok, for next time then :)
<didrocks> I can try to close it and see if I get it today
<chrisccoulson> heh, thanks
<rickspencer3> for 13.04, let's default to gmail for the mail client!
<rickspencer3> we have webapps now, afterall
<didrocks> rickspencer3: well, I think more something like:
<rickspencer3> hey bryce looking good!
<didrocks> - click on the indicator message
<didrocks> ask "please enter your email address"
<didrocks> if you enter anything @gmail.com or other things that have good web support -> use a webapps
<didrocks> otherwise, install thunderbird on demand
<rickspencer3> nice
<rickspencer3> @yahoo.com -> web apps
<didrocks> right :)
<rickspencer3> parfait
<didrocks> "smart desktop" :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, i might not need to see the other threads
<chrisccoulson> in frame 5, "mayWait=true" is definitely wrong
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I tried to close/open it again a lotâ¦ but didn't really get it stalled (I get it quite regularly, like every 2/3 days after a day of thunderbird running)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, i can see a race in shutdown actually. at least, i think i can.
<chrisccoulson> well, it looks too obvious to me as well, so i must be wrong ;)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: waow, if you want to get te fix tested, I can try in a ppa for several days :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, didn't firefox used to display a launcher progress bar while downloading? seems to not work for me on quantal...
<chrisccoulson> seb128, you need my unityfox addon installed
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hum, we don't do that by default?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, no, i don't want any more addons in the default install. we have enough already ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I probably had it before having webapps screwing my addons a few weeks back
<chrisccoulson> yeah, possibly
<seb128> need to reinstall it
<seb128> chrisccoulson, well, we should have our default browser integrated with our default desktop ;-)
<tseliot> seb128: what's up with pidgin and bug #1040259?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1040259 in skype-wrapper "FFE: libmessaging-menu transitions for quantal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040259
<seb128> tseliot, somebody needs to port pidgin-libnotify to libmessaging-menu
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, if you go to the addon manager and type "unity" in to the searchbox, it's the first result that appears here :)
<tseliot> seb128: just that?
<larsu> seb128, btw: I have a 70% port of liferea lying around somewhere. I'll try to finish it before UDS
<seb128> tseliot, "just" ... it's always "just" code? ;-)
<seb128> larsu, great
<tseliot> seb128: I was wondering if other components were involved :)
<seb128> no
<tseliot> ok
<seb128> do you want to have a go at the update? ;-)
<tseliot> seb128: probably, I need to check the code first
<seb128> I meant to do it but release went crazy with other things
<seb128> so if you want to do that would be great
<tseliot> ok, I'll think about it
<tseliot> thanks
<seb128> thank you for thinking about it ;-)
<larsu> seb128, do you want to backport http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-messages/trunk.13.04/revision/323
<larsu> it fixes the geary crash
<didrocks> robru: hey, already up? isn't that early for you?
<robru> didrocks: no... haven't slept yet I'm afraid ;-)
<didrocks> robru: ok, the other way around, it's even worse ;-)
<robru> didrocks: yeah... but I'm doing some work though, so it's not wasted time ;-)
<didrocks> heh ;)
<seb128> larsu, is that happening often? we can backport sure, but we can also wait if there are a bit more to backport or if other issues are raised after release
<larsu> seb128, I heard geary removed messaging menu integration because of it (I'm not entirely sure though)
<larsu> seb128, the crash should happen for all applications that call register(); unregister(); register();
<larsu> (I don't know why geary would do that by the way)
<seb128> larsu, where did you hear that? (geary has messaging menu integration broken in quantal because they have a stupid build system and they turned it off  in 0.2.1 is intltool is not installed and we didn't have it in build-depends)
<seb128> larsu, I've a uploaded a fixed geary yesterday, it's waiting to be approved in the queue
<larsu> seb128, hm, alright, let's wait a little then. At least for a fix to bug 1065169
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1065169 in indicator-messages "segfault when used in plugin load, unload, load cycle" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1065169
<seb128> larsu, ok
<larsu> oh, there's a branch on there now... just without a merge request
<tsdgeos> do you guys know what defines GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID ?
<seb128> tsdgeos, gnome-session
<tsdgeos> seb128: ok
<tsdgeos> it's weird, may it be that yesterday wasn't defined?
<tsdgeos> i do remember trying something yesterday that depends on it being there and failed and today doesn't fail anymore
<seb128> tsdgeos, yesterday wasn't defined?
<seb128> tsdgeos, that variable is deprecated for years but the code didn't change for years either
<seb128> GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID=this-is-deprecated
<tsdgeos> yep
<seb128> gnome-session/main.c:        gsm_util_setenv ("GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID", "this-is-deprecated");
<tsdgeos> must have been a PEBKAC then
<seb128> or you started something from an environment with is not gnome-session's one
<seb128> like DISPLAY=... command from a vt
<seb128> ?
<tsdgeos> hmmmm
<tsdgeos> maybe i was restarting unity from the vt
<tsdgeos> that might have happened
<tsdgeos> i'll have a nother question about gconf/gsettings/dconf whatnot
<tsdgeos> but that'll be after lunch
 * tsdgeos waves
<tsdgeos> we don't use gconf anymore, right?
<Laney> it is still used, but we're working towards getting rid of it
<tsdgeos> ok
<tsdgeos> because i see Qt tries to get the icon theme from /desktop/gnome/interface/icon_theme in gconf
<tsdgeos> and that is not the correct info anymore, right?
<mitya57> tsdgeos: that key contains right icon theme in Ubuntu, but one can't rely on it
<mitya57> tsdgeos: see https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-25718
<tsdgeos> mitya57: does it contain the right icon theme?
<tsdgeos> not when i change it
<mitya57> tsdgeos: neither gnome-control-center nor gnome-tweak tool change the gconf entry
<mitya57> but by default it contains ubuntu-mono-dark
<tsdgeos> mitya57: right, that's the problem
<tsdgeos> once i change the setting using gnome-control-center
<tsdgeos> it changes a different key (i can see it change in dconf-editor)
<tsdgeos> but not that one
<tsdgeos> thus we should patch it to watch that key (or patch g-c-c to change the other one)
<tsdgeos> because to be honest i don't see the Qt guys fixing that by themselves
<mitya57> tsdgeos: the correct fix will be making Qt reading the icon theme from XSettings
<mitya57> http://standards.freedesktop.org/xsettings-spec/xsettings-spec-0.5.html
<mitya57> it'll make it work on most DEs if not all
<mitya57> tsdgeos: from that bug report ^^:
<mitya57> Jerome Leclanche: "One of our Razor-Qt developers is working on this afaik."
<tsdgeos> been on that 4 months
<tsdgeos> for what is probably a 50 lines patch :D
<tsdgeos> anyway
<tsdgeos> if we are not interested in fixing stuff
<tsdgeos> fair enough
<mitya57> I'll now add a comment asking what is the progress
<mitya57> ... done
<mitya57> and that's not a "50 lines patch", as Qt doesn't yet have any XSettings implementation
<tsdgeos> well, you have to read an X property and decode it
<tsdgeos> from a quick look to that spec
<tsdgeos> can't be that hard
<mitya57> another problem is that gtk reads "gtk-icon-theme-name" property (and all DEs (even KDE) set it),
<mitya57> and I'm not sure if Qt developers will appreciate it reading something that contains gtk in its name...
 * Laney stabs webkit
<Laney> micahg: you know how you wanted to maintain it? :) :) :)
<tsdgeos> to be honest the spec is a big short on stuff
<tsdgeos> it doesn't even mention names
<mitya57> oh, I got a reply from Jerome, he says they "ran out of time to work on it".
<tsdgeos> probably because noone really adopted it besides gnome
<tsdgeos> making it "one of those specs"
<mitya57> tsdgeos: that's sad, but using it still seems the most universal way for me
<tsdgeos> maybe
<bjsnider> jbicha, you saw that debdiff i made right?
<jbicha> bjsnider: yes, but I haven't had time to get to it because of the release today
<bjsnider> ok, just making sure you saw it. i also built it and tested it here, and it works.
<chrisccoulson> hah, https://twitter.com/JBarol/status/258271137702756352/photo/1
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: at least, they don't cheat :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, actually, when you get that tb hang again, can you get a trace with all threads? the race that i thought existed actually might not exist, and this might just be a case of a thread that never returns to its main loop (ie, it's hung)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: sure, will do :)
<chrisccoulson> thanks :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, i'll try and figure out if there's a way to identify the actual thread too
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok, I'll thread apply all first, as I generally get that in the morning way before you wake up :)
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, ok, if you could switch to the frame where nsThread::Shutdown is, and do "call (char*)PR_GetThreadName(mThread)", then that will tell you the name of the hanging thread if it has one
<chrisccoulson> although, not all threads have a name
<chrisccoulson> in fact, it looks like most thunderbird threads don't have names. but most threads that are common to firefox and thunderbird do have them
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: sure, will do
<bcurtiswx> Congrats everyone on 12.10 :)
<chrisccoulson> i like this bit inbetween release and UDS. i actually get a chance to finish things :)
<kenvandine> yeah :)
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, although it's short this cycle
<chrisccoulson> kenvandine, it's probably shorter for you ;)
<chrisccoulson> i've got a whole week to work on stuff next week :)
<kenvandine> yeah... i leave saturday
<kenvandine> i get 2 days :)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> i'm wondering whether getting overlay scrollbars working before UDS might be a bit ambitious, with only 1 week
<chrisccoulson> i didn't realize it was quite that short
<kenvandine> chrisccoulson, you can do it!
<chrisccoulson> brb, need to see what tooltips look like without compositing
<chrisccoulson> ok, the answer is "bad". sigh :(
<Dino901> Does anyone here have experience with using a touchscreen display with Ubuntu?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-19
<pitti> Good morning
<didrocks> good morning
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<didrocks> hey pitti, how are you?
<pitti> didrocks: quite fine, thanks! how about yourself?
<didrocks> pitti: I'm good, thanks
<rickspencer3> good morning all
<didrocks> bonjour rickspencer3
<rickspencer3> hey didrocks
<rickspencer3> what's the French community saying today about 12.10?
<rickspencer3> c'est bon?
<didrocks> rickspencer3: not as many downloads as for previous releases, seems people want to wait a little bit before downloading
<didrocks> rickspencer3: also, as we have a rock solid LTS, I think a lot of them won't upgrade for the first time in years
<rickspencer3> didrocks, interesting, why do you think that is?
<didrocks> they like precise :)
 * rickspencer3 nods
<didrocks> I had the same feeling yesterday evening in ubuntu-lyon
<didrocks> (I went to the evening event, for helping upgrades/installs)
<didrocks> just my feeling, it seems but strong LTS release are not good for later intermediate ones!
<didrocks> â¦ which is a good thing in some way ;)
<rickspencer3> well, yeah
<chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
<didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> well, that should keep the webapps guys busy. been picking firefox crashes out of the crash database for them this morning :)
<chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
<chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: heh ;)
<chrisccoulson> https://crash-stats.mozilla.com/query/query?product=Firefox&version=Firefox%3A16.0.1&platform=linux&range_value=1&range_unit=days&date=10%2F19%2F2012+08%3A34%3A15&query_search=signature&query_type=contains&query=&reason=&build_id=&process_type=browser&hang_type=crash&do_query=1
<chrisccoulson> number 4 ;)
<chrisccoulson> that's just for the last 24 hours. if i look at the last week, that crash is number 11
<chrisccoulson> it's going to overtake all of them quite quickly :(
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: can you contact them and work with them to get those fixed?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I think we will need to help them to get a better firefox plugin
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah. they're all going to be travelling next week aren't they?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: right, most of them starting wednesday
<chrisccoulson> i wonder whether to just fix it for them before this appears on mozilla's radar
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: so that's plenty of time to get some fixes in first! :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: agreed
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: would be bad to have it disabled :p
<chrisccoulson> yeah
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-October/msg00056.html ;)
<chrisccoulson> systemd now a hard dependency of gnome-settings-daemon....
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: "sweet", this will make our life easier of courseâ¦
<chrisccoulson> indeed
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: not sure of the effectivness of the power plugin in g-s-d TBH
<Laney> yeah, just saw that
<Laney> it's not entirely surprising though really
<chrisccoulson> but then, we choose to use obsolete technology such as consolekit :/
<xnox> chrisccoulson: I'm not sure "choose" is the correct word here.
<pitti> ah, just read that mail as well
<pitti> well, we'll need to package systemd anyway
<chrisccoulson> xnox, what would be the correct word?
<pitti> it was the plan for quantal already, but didn't happen
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, are you using https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-next btw? :)
<chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: I don't really use firefox, why? ;)
<pitti> we'll still need a patch to use CK, of course, but we should be able to use the suspend etc. bits
<pitti> chrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks!
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, oh, i forgot you're a chrome traitor :-P
<didrocks> \o/
<chrisccoulson> freedom hater ;)
<didrocks> chromium*
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: quick quick blog it! ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh
<chrisccoulson> pitti, you'll still be at UDS, won't you? :)
<pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, of course; I'm in the platform team
<chrisccoulson> oh, i wasn't too sure. that's good then
<didrocks> pitti: take care, soon chrisccoulson will call you "desktop team traitor" :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
 * pitti remembers to bring the asbestos pants
<didrocks> heh :)
<ronoc> nero for linux has been broken since 11.10 on 64bit
<ronoc> don't know who to spoke to about this ...
<didrocks> ronoc: is it in the partner repo?
<ronoc> didrocks, from apt I can find nerolinux
<ronoc> i don't have any extra repos added to my source.list
<ronoc> didrocks, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1864876&page=2
<ronoc> the fix worked for me
<ronoc> i needed to create an nrg for something
<didrocks> ronoc: apt-cache policy nerolinux
<didrocks> what does it says?
<ronoc> didrocks, no mention of where the repo is
<ronoc> i can't remember is i installed from a deb from the nero site
<ronoc> nerolinux:
<ronoc>   Installed: 4.0.0.0-1
<ronoc>   Candidate: 4.0.0.0-1
<ronoc>   Version table:
<ronoc>  *** 4.0.0.0-1 0
<ronoc>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<ronoc> didrocks, ^
<didrocks> ronoc: so you downloaded and installed the deb directly
<ronoc> ah
<didrocks> or added a ppa, installing it, and removing it (during a dist-upgrade?)
<ronoc> nah i must have installed the deb directly
<didrocks> but I really doubt we would ever have nerolinux in the distro
<ronoc> we should support it though
<didrocks> ronoc: maybe they have a support forum?
<didrocks> I think it needs a rebuild and fixes for multiarch
<ronoc> ok
<ronoc> i'll see if i can relay that message
<didrocks> ronoc: http://www.nero.com/enu/downloads-linux4-update.php
<didrocks> ronoc: seems they didn't release a deb for 2 years though
<ronoc> aye, people still use this though for producing disc images, plants only accept nrgs or dpps
<ronoc> yep it looks like nero have stop supporting linux ...
<didrocks> urgh :(
<bizhanMona> Hi where is ubuntu as far as supporting systemd? thx
<jbicha> thanks Bastien for stirring up drama on a Friday https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-October/msg00056.html
<kenvandine> jbicha, yeah... i guess we'll be talking about systemd at UDS
<jbicha> I mean, Ubuntu 13.04 probably should start migrating to systemd in 13.04 but he's being a jerk about "encouraging" us to do that
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128
<chrisccoulson> just saw your response on d-d-l ;)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, happy friday trolling day ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh :)
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> I'm good
<seb128> having a day off work today (still some  10 vac days to take before end of year), I was just saying hello and reading emails (and trolling a bit ;-)
<chrisccoulson> heh, vacation, i really need to take some as well
<chrisccoulson> i'd totally forgotten about it
<chrisccoulson> hah, i've got 18 days left!
<chrisccoulson> jeez
<chrisccoulson> i really need to take some time off soon
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: we'll tell you happy christmas and happy new year at the end of UDS :)
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: you had a kid, and _still_ have 18 days left? :P
<didrocks> mdeslaur: you know that this can be taken as "you are being a bad father", right? :p
<jbicha> seb128: lol, have a good day off :)
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, with 2 small children, sometimes it's a relief to be at work rather than taking vacation ;)
<mdeslaur> didrocks: lol, whoops :)
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: hehe :)
<chrisccoulson> but, i really suck at taking vacation
<chrisccoulson> i need to pick a period between 2 firefox releases to have some time off :)
<seb128> jbicha, thanks ;-)
<seb128> I'm off again
<seb128> bbl
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: how fast between 2 firefox releases already?
<chrisccoulson> didrocks, well, there were 2 last week
<chrisccoulson> but 6 weeks between scheduled releases ;)
<didrocks> ok, 7 for chromium IIRC
<chrisccoulson> the release process for chromium seems a bit more chaotic though
<chrisccoulson> i can tell you the exact date firefox 17 will be released :)
<didrocks> time-based :)
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: do they really release chromium and chrome the same day?
<didrocks> kenvandine: maybe you would know? ^
<kenvandine> not sure about the same day
<kenvandine> but it is roughly every 6 weeks
<kenvandine> not as specific as firefox though
<kenvandine> sometimes it is 3 or 4 weeks between stable releases
<Laney> ah, working webkit on arm again
<Laney> ogra_: ^ :-)
 * Laney is looking at the slideshow
 * ogra_ hugs Laney 
<ogra_> Laney, thats awesome, while we could easily drop the slideshow, yelp is completely broken :)
<Laney> heh
<Laney> i'll SRU it with the upstream micro release
<Laney> still a workaround, there's a bug with upstream to fix it for real
<ellorenz> Hi to all!
<ellorenz> i'd need help about wifi on ubuntu 12.10 can anyone help me?
<jbicha> ellorenz: please ask in #ubuntu
<ellorenz> Ok
<TheLordOfTime> was 2d unity removed in Q?
<TheLordOfTime> and if so, why?
<didrocks> TheLordOfTime: yeah, it was, you can read http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/08/unity-2d-removed-from-ubuntu-12-10 (or google around) for more explanation
<didrocks> the decision was announced at last UDS
<TheLordOfTime> ah, i missed it, i focus on server stuff more :p
<TheLordOfTime> in any case, what's the method to reset stuff to less-graphical stuff?
<didrocks> TheLordOfTime: if your machine can't support 3D, it will use llvmpipe
<didrocks> (with unity itself)
<TheLordOfTime> that may have been prudent to include in the release notes
<TheLordOfTime> unless i didnt read them enough
<TheLordOfTime> :p
 * TheLordOfTime is adamant to stick with 12.04, but has seen 'bugs' that 2d unity isnt an option now
<didrocks> TheLordOfTime: people having machine not able to run unity 3D have a warning before upgrading
<didrocks> (it may run fine with llvmpipe, but we prefer to warn them while they are on precise still :))
<TheLordOfTime> doesn't seem that way according to the QQing i saw in #ubuntu earlier
<didrocks> well, it's only if the machine doesn't support 2D
<didrocks> sorry, 3D
<didrocks> not if you selected 2D and your machine supported 3D
<didrocks> knowing that 3D is more power efficient as running on the GPU and some speed improvments have made their way on 12.10 for compiz + unity
<TheLordOfTime> did the release notes include that 2d unity was replaced with what you've stated?
<TheLordOfTime> if so, then i can just start saying "learn to read the release notes!"
<TheLordOfTime> (or something more friendly that way)
<TheLordOfTime> as i said, i prefer currentRelease -1, or LTS
<TheLordOfTime> (which is why i'll be on 12.04 for a while ;P)
<didrocks> TheLordOfTime: it was in beta1, seems it didn't make it into the finale release note though :/
<didrocks> TheLordOfTime: but the user shouldn't land in a desktop-less world, the new version unity version on supported hw should be more efficient than unity-2d they had in precise
<TheLordOfTime> its the QQing i dont like :P
<didrocks> and if their hardware will require llvmpipe support (so no acceleration), there is a warning showing it
<TheLordOfTime> brb, I apparently futzed a debdiff for an SRU
<fredp> didrocks and friends, congrats for the release.
<didrocks> fredp: merci! :-)
<jbicha> TheLordOfTime: yeah, basically no one has stepped up to maintain unity-2d
<mterry> Laney, I wanted to push an SRU patch for gtk+3.0.  I see you have one uploaded?  Has it been approved into -proposed yet or shall I add my patch to yours and re-upload with same version?
 * mterry realizes he can look himelf
<mbiebl> tkamppeter: heya, around?
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-20
<tkamppeter> mbiebl, still there?
<Laney> mterry: yeah, goferit
<laksh> guys, i have a problem with my 12.10. My pointer becomes unresponsive to clicks at times.Although I can move it, I can't click anything. A workaround I tried which worked was to switch to a tty window and come back to my graphical  window.
<laksh> For some reason I had to reinstall 12.10; but the problem persists
<laksh> I need to make sure it's a bug before i can report it on launchpad
#ubuntu-desktop 2012-10-21
<korben> goodmorning y'all
<doomlord_> is there anything like wmtile for ubuntu / unity / compiz . . i'd really like a hotkey to auto tile the current workspace (plain tiling or recursive screen halves for descending stacking order )
<doomlord_> there's an option in fvwm that would be handy too, it doesn't resize anything but just attempts to replace windows for maximum visibility
<mitya57> jbicha: online?
<mitya57> jbicha, desrt: can you please copy nautilus 3.6.1 from https://launchpad.net/~mitya57/+archive/nautilus/+copy-packages to the gnome3 ppa?
<mitya57> thanks!
<jbicha> mitya57: thanks, that saved me time today :)
<mitya57> metacity --replace
<hyperair> does anyone know if there's any work done porting pidgin to libmessaging-meun?
<AlanBell> hyperair: bug 1040259 by any chance?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1040259 in skype-wrapper "FFE: libmessaging-menu transitions for quantal" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040259
<hyperair> AlanBell: yes i saw that. but i don't see any patch or any branch linked there related to pidgin, so i'm asking.
<AlanBell> yeah, I am just looking at gm-notify which doesn't appear to work now
<hyperair> i see
<hyperair> well i think i'll just wait for seb128 to appear. it seems he assigned himself to the pidgin task and then unassigned himself later on
<AlanBell> http://developer.ubuntu.com/resources/technologies/messaging-menu/ is presumably now mostly junk
<hyperair> yeah that's junk
 * hyperair sighs. why do we *have* to keep breaking API?
 * AlanBell sighs too
<AlanBell> the bug says it is *deprecated*
<hyperair> not too long ago we were porting every damn thing to libindicate 0.7
<AlanBell> this isn't deprecated it is *gone*
<hyperair> no it's been replaced by libmessaging-menu, hasn't it?
<AlanBell> yeah, deprecated is supposed to mean "please don't use this any more, use the replacement, we might break the old method one day"
<AlanBell> but stuff using deprecated apis should still work, even if there is a new method with added awesomeness
<hyperair> heh
<lifeless> RAOF: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41115 please ;)
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 41115 in Server/General "Please add option to avoid forcing of 96dpi" [Enhancement,New]
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-14
<czajkowski> aloha
<mlankhorst> Hoi!
<Laney> good morning
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> Laney, hey, had a good beer festival this w.e? ;-)
<mlankhorst> g'day
<Laney> seb128: yeah, was great thanks!
<Laney> not sure i managed even 1% of the 1,100 beers they had there ;-)
<seb128> lol
<seb128> crazy
<Laney> actually, I probably did
<Laney> was having 1/3 pints
<seb128> so, how drunk are you still? :p
<Laney> so not too bad :P
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> how was your weekend?
<seb128> quite good, I didn't do anything special though
<seb128> I went for some shopping on saturday and hang around with friends, and yesterday I mostly relaxed (watched some tennis on TV, and went to spa in the afternoon)
<Laney> sounds quite pleasant to me
<seb128> it was ;-)
<seb128> how do you know it's release week? when you start update-manager after the w.e and get 300M of updates
<seb128> does it seem backward to anybody else? ;-)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> there's a lot of no-changey stuff for arm64
<seb128> right, I read -changes, still quite some churn ;-)
<Laney> yep
 * Laney looks into bug #1180513
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1180513 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "lid close actions are ignored laptop always suspends" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1180513
<seb128> Laney, do you get the issue?
 * seb128 doesn't
<Laney> yes
<seb128> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1238663
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1238663 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Laptop suspends itself while on AC power" [Low,New]
<seb128> Laney, if you need an open bug (it also has a g-s-d debug log)
<Laney> oh yeah saw that one too
<seb128> (gnome-settings-daemon:17854): power-plugin-DEBUG: Doing a state transition: sleep
<seb128> (gnome-settings-daemon:17854): power-plugin-DEBUG: TESTSUITE: Blanked screen
<seb128> (gnome-settings-daemon:17854): power-plugin-DEBUG: no suspend delay inhibitor
<seb128> that's weird
<seb128> why the TESTSUITE output in there?
<seb128> (gnome-settings-daemon:17854): power-plugin-DEBUG: TESTSUITE: Blanked screen
<seb128> (gnome-settings-daemon:17854): power-plugin-DEBUG: Removing suspend delay inhibitor
<seb128>  
<Laney> seems like they are in g_debugs
<seb128> ok
<seb128> I was wondering if the people having the issue were running tests or stuff that were playing with the inhibitors
<Laney> oh hmm
<Laney> it might have fixed itself after I restarted g-s-d
<seb128> Laney, the issue would be some other code playing with the inhibitor...
<Laney> yeah it's not so easy as something which happens all the time
<alan_g> Hi, my desktop system stopped connecting to wired or wireless after I crashed X on Friday (I'm developing Mir). Even installing a fresh system image didn't fix - even though it works fine off the memory stick image. ifconfig shows the connections with TX/RX bytes incrementing a little after each connection retry. What to look at next?
<seb128> is the debug log on that bug useful?
<seb128> it does mention inhibitors being dropped
<seb128> Laney, did you try Mir on the n7? /me ponders keeping the device on SF or upgrading
<seb128> alan_g, hey, that seems weird ... it's like your hardware was in a weird state, but it shouldn't work from a live image then
<seb128> alan_g, do you use a dhcp? do you get an ip?
<seb128> sil2100, hey
<Laney> yeah, tried it a bit
<Laney> kind of worked but I kept getting crashes and weird artifacts
<alan_g> seb128: I use dhcp (the router shows the wired as connected, not the wireless)
<seb128> Laney, is it usable or would upgrading ruin my device?
<seb128> hum
<Laney> i think you can still remove that .display_mir file
<seb128> oh, ok
<seb128> great
 * seb128 tries
<Laney> check first!
<seb128> we archived the SF image anyway
<seb128> so I can put that back if needed
<seb128> alan_g, your description lacks a bit details to be useful... if you plug the cable, do you get an ip (e.g can you pastebin the ifconfig output)?
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> sil2100, did you meant to approve https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/update-build-number/+merge/190390 ? (you just comment approved)
<alan_g> seb128: sorry, is a pain copying things across to laptop without network. is ifconfig the only one? Or can I do any others at the same time?
<seb128> alan_g, so from ifconfig I'm trying to see if your eth is having an ip
<seb128> if it doesn't there is a problem with the dhcp/getting an ip
<seb128> if it has, I would ask you try to try to ping an ip on the local network (if you have another device you can ping there)
<alan_g> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6235114/
<seb128> so yeah, you have no ip ...
<seb128> or no ipv4 ip at least (I don't know much about ipv6)
<seb128> stgraber, ^ help, what info are useful to debug those sort of issues? :p
<seb128> alan_g, I guess you can try to run "dhclient -v" and see if there is anything useful in the log...
<sil2100> !\
<sil2100> seb128: oh shit I was sure I top-approved
<alan_g> seb128: "Not broadcast interfaces found"
<sil2100> seb128: ehh, I actually took it for granted that it's in... ;)
<sil2100> seb128: (hello!)
<seb128> sil2100, it would help if you were reading your email/IRC :p I pinged you on both friday afternoon :/
<seb128> sil2100, hey
<seb128> sil2100, thanks for approving it ;-)
<sil2100> Wait, ok that's not cool ;p Sorry about that, but I was sure I top-approved it, maybe I had LP issues when doing that
<seb128> sil2100, no worry, it just that sometime you seem to miss pings, probably a suboptimal config/filtering on your side...
<sil2100> seb128: do you remember when did you ping me on Friday? As I was AFK after 18:00 then for an appointement, so maybe it was then?
<seb128> sil2100, no, but maybe I just commented on the mp ... I'm taking a note to IRC ping as well next time ;-)
<sil2100> seb128: ok, so the problem is me not looking at Merge Proposal e-mails, but don't tell Didier! I should restart doing so, I stopped some time ago since I get like millions of them ;p
<Laney> you should filter the ones you care about
<seb128> sil2100, oh, please don't take hours to read everything ... what Laney said
<seb128> sil2100, or at least filter on "X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale: Reviewer"
<seb128> that's set when you review a mp, so you would get follow ups
<Laney> aha
<Laney> I can reproduce that bug if I plug/unplug the charger
<alan_g> seb128: @"hardware in a weird state" - I thought of that and disconnected power for a few hours over weekend. :(
<seb128> alan_g, well, if it works from a live image it's probably not that...
<alan_g> seb128: yeah.
<seb128> alan_g, hum, I guess that trying to "dhclient eth0" or "sudo restart networking" makes no difference?
<seb128> alan_g, our network guys are cyphermox and stgraber usually, but they are in Canada, which means it's early for them, and today is off for them as well...
<alan_g> seb128: I thought I'd tried it on Friday, but "sudo restart networking" just crashed unity(!)
<seb128> :-(
<alan_g> Hmm, can't even get a VT in text mode
<alan_g> seb128: I'll leave it until tomorrow (unless you think of something else to try meanwhile)
<seb128> alan_g, did you try to "dhclient eth0"? do you still get the no found interface error?
<alan_g> seb128: I just got the prompt back
<seb128> alan_g, use -v in case it has useful infos?
<alan_g> seb128: Now I see an IP address...
<seb128> alan_g, ah, progress!
<seb128> can you ping machines on your network/outside?
<alan_g> seb128: "Network is unreachable"
<alan_g> (Or "Unknown host" if I try DNS)
<seb128> alan_g, I don't know :/ is that a new install with new /etc and userconfig or did you restore your confg?
<seb128> alan_g, you might want to try playing with the control center or network-manager settings...
<alan_g> seb128: Currently in the original image.
<sil2100> seb128: just to make sure! Does switching off cellular data works ;p ?
<sil2100> i.e. does it really switch off the cellular data ;p?
<ogra_> sil2100, it should set an rfkill block ... you can check with "rfkill list all"
<seb128> sil2100, it's supposed to work, we do call to ofono and that's implemented
<seb128> sil2100, but check as ogra said, who knows, there might be bugs
<sil2100> Ok, thanks, will check that
<seb128> Laney, you are there for the meeting tomorrow, right?
<Laney> which meeting?
<seb128> Laney, team meeting
<seb128> weekly IRC meeting
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> why?
<seb128> Laney, can you lead it? I'm travelling to Canada tomorrow
<seb128> (I'm going to offline mostly tomorrow btw, due to ^=
<seb128> )
<Laney> ah, sure
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> around the rest of the week?
<seb128> yes, on Canadian time
<alan_g> seb128: A bit more info - "dhclient eth0" gets an IP address with long lease (as per my setup) but this disappears in a few (variable) seconds. But while it exists the connection is actually up. I guess the earlier tests failed because it happened to lose it already.
<seb128> I'm going to work with desrt&co from there until Oakland
<seb128> well, first MontrÃ©al, then Toronto, then Oakland
<Laney> fun
<seb128> alan_g, ok, weird ... at least it's not hardware issue, not sure if that could be a n-m problem, or fighting dhclients, or... better to check with cyphermox and stgraber tomorrow
<seb128> Laney, yeah ;-)
<seb128> *shrug*
<alan_g> seb128: yeah. And it is useful to have a connection long enough to be able to do a "bzr push". ;)
<seb128> device went flat during the w.e again
<Laney> seb128: can you try http://paste.ubuntu.com/6235309/ for me?
<Laney> run it and plug/unplug ac a few times
<Laney> see if it prints the right thing
<seb128> alan_g, you might want to try to check /var/log/syslog (or messages) for errors
<seb128> Laney, buggy
<seb128> On battery: no
<seb128> On battery: yes
<seb128> On battery: yes
<Laney> yeah that's what i get
<Laney> i think that's the essence of this bug
<seb128> that's for "start docked, unplug charger, plug charger"
<Laney> the dbus property is right though if you watch that
<seb128> Laney, upower is such a piece of c***
<Laney> haha
<seb128> Laney, I opened at least 5 bugs when doing the battery panel, and I've as many hacks in there to deal with upower bugs
<Laney> did they get any response?
<seb128> no
<pitti> Laney: hang on, we fixed a bug with libupower-glib property retrieval last week; did you try with 0.9.22?
<seb128> just go a "do you have a patch" from Bastien on one of them on friday
<seb128> ii  upower                                                0.9.22-1                                       i386         abstraction for power management
<pitti> ack
<seb128> pitti, ^
<Laney> yeah, that's what i have
<Laney> pitti: can you reproduce it?
<seb128> pitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6235309/plain/ is the testcase
<alan_g> seb128: a lot of http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6235334/
<Laney> pitti: aha
<Laney> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/commit/?id=e4858d94343bba2afbebcd1a4925c981a38a9579
<Laney> it's probably that; I just came to the same conclusion
<Laney> "wtf, where does ret come from?"
<Laney> wow, Bastien has pushed a load of stuff this morning
<Laney> some nice cleanups actually
<Laney> anyway, i'll cherry-pick that
<seb128> great
<Laney> unless pitti wants to upload it to Debian
<seb128> there are some other fixes in there that seems worth including
<Laney> I guess we're in SRU land now
<seb128> yes
<pitti> Laney: ouch
<Laney> yeah, that's pretty bad
<pitti> Laney: should be fine, I still got stuff accepted a few hours ago
<seb128> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/commit/?id=f3898db4d3a340e5a4245bb86c3291d109ae0349 is interesting as well
<pitti> and this is rather bad
<Laney> infinity: ^?
<Laney> are we close now?
<Laney> closed
<seb128> Laney, well, you can upload in any case, just include a bug reference ... if it doesn't make it to release it's going to be an SRU
<Laney> I guess so
 * Laney tests it ;-)
<pitti> seb128: I'll update Debian as well, but waiting for the accept/import into LP is too long
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I'll take http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/commit/?id=fc5793e742d769febd3239bab8e88750457423ab too
<pitti> so please go ahead, so that this lands in a few  mins
<Laney> crash fix
<pitti> it's obviously correct
<pitti> ack
<pitti> wow, hadess has been busy :)
<infinity> Laney: We're closed after I have lunch, probably.  If you have some critical fixes, toss them in the queue and I'll reject if I don't want 'em.
<Laney> OK
<seb128> pitti, indeed
<seb128> alan_g, oh
<seb128> alan_g, that apparmor DENY seems like worth opening a bug about
<seb128> alan_g, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/isc-dhcp/+bug/1197484
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1197484 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "Connection requests to saucy server VMs from a hosts fail after fresh VM installs" [High,Fix released]
<seb128> alan_g, I guess you can try to "sudo aa-complain /usr/lib/NetworkManager/nm-dhcp-client.action" to see if that makes a difference
<Laney> yep, that fixed the bug
<seb128> Laney, \o/
<alan_g> seb128: seems to make no difference - but I don't see the apparmor messages in the fresh image. But I do see: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6235425/
<seb128> alan_g, weird, something doesn't work as it should in the dhcp ip negociation it seems ... it's not enough of my domain to help more
<seb128> alan_g, you can probably configure a static ip to workaround it
<pitti> Laney, infinity: upower upload LGTM, thanks!
<Laney> woot
<seb128> \o/
<pitti> (can't accept myself though, not in ~u-release)
<seb128> I'm glad Bastien is making some cleaning in that codebase
<pitti> indeed
<pitti> the gdbus port is nice
<seb128> because as said, it's quite buggy :/
<pitti> wrt. dropping the old suspend stuff, we'll need to grep the archive for that
<pitti> but it's still in the 0.9 branch
<alan_g> seb128: I found a workaround - changing ip6 from "Automatic" to "Link Local Only" (but have no idea why that works).
<seb128> pitti, right, a "t-cycle" item
<seb128> alan_g, great, something to do with ipv6 then I guess
<seb128> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6236138/ ... makes sense? should I upload?
<didrocks> seb128: can I cry for not trailing comma in the dep? :)
<Laney> O_O
<seb128> didrocks, lol, I can add that ;-)
<didrocks> otherwise makes sense ;)
<didrocks> please go ahead ;)
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> Laney, if we make u-s-s use the new directories provides by ubuntu-touch-sounds, do you prefer a Depends or Recommends from u-s-s on the sounds?
<Laney> what did it have before?
<seb128> Laney, nothing, but that's probably an error :p
<seb128> it used to list /usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/stereo from ubuntu-sounds
<seb128> well, it still works if those are not installed
<seb128> you just get no ringtone/message sounds to pick from in the ui
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> Laney, in the next iteration we are going to have a file picker and be able to pick files even if none are listed
<seb128> but meanwhile...
<Laney> Probably recommends if anything
<Laney> will you be seeding it?
<Laney> I think having it as a dep of the schemas is weird btw
<Laney> we managed to keep gsettings-desktop-schemas clean all this time
<seb128> Laney, I've no strong opinion, feel free to reverse it to be seeded/no schemas depends
<seb128> if you prefer one way to the other
<seb128> it sort of make sense to bring the files corresponding to the default you set imho
<seb128> otherwise installing the default leads you to a non working config
<Laney> yeah we have precedent for this with e.g. ubuntu-settings
<seb128> did we discuss the way that was done and settle on the no depends/recommends?
<seb128> or is that just the way it happened?
<seb128> but as said, I've no strong preference, it feels like that if you write a config you should ensure that the config can work
<Laney> meh, it's already in
<seb128> Laney, didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/sound-new-effects/+merge/190976 is the u-s-s  side
<Laney> I'll change it at some point in the future
<seb128> Laney, well, we can always do another upload
<seb128> Laney, or early in t-serie
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I'll MP it for the seeds
<sil2100> seb128, Laney: hey guys, you know of an easy way of running system-settings with USS_SHOW_ALL_UI=1 enabled on the phone?
<seb128> sil2100, just adb shell to the device, su - phablet and run it
<seb128> you get the debug output as a bonus point
<seb128> sil2100, otherwise you can can copy the .desktop, change the name/command
<sil2100> I modified the .desktop file but it doesn't start, that's why I'm asking ;) And when running from shell I was getting a segfault, but if that's the way to do that then maybe I have something wrong
<Laney> USS_SHOW_ALL_UI=1 /usr/bin/system-settings --desktop_file_hint=/usr/share/applications/ubuntu-system-settings.desktop
<Laney> wfm
<jasoncwarner_> morning all, just saying "hi" as most americans and canadians are off ;)
<chrisccoulson_> lol, https://twitter.com/Sweetshark1/status/389782630020820992 ;)
<Laney> morning jasoncwarner_
<Laney> chrisccoulson_: hah
<Laney> I guess you follow @NeedADebitCard :P
<chrisccoulson_> Laney, yeah, i was wondering whether they'd retweet it ;)
<chrisccoulson_> not sure if it's a bot
<seb128> Laney, hum, those translation warning as there for ever no?
<Laney> don't know
<Laney> fixed though
<seb128> oh
<Laney> the email should arrive in a second
<seb128> yeah, I reverted my changes
<seb128> still there
<Laney> oh well, might as well fix it
<Laney> can do as a separate mp or you merge my branch into yours
<seb128> sure
<seb128> your call, I prefer to keep different changesets in the different commits
<seb128> but I'm not going to make a fuss about it if you pick the other way ;-)
<seb128> lol, you indentation freak ;-)
<Laney> haha
<Laney> ok i'll approve yours
<jasoncwarner_> hey seb128 , curious, did those sounds ever make it in?
<seb128> jasoncwarner_, hey, they have been landing today, not in the image yet, check with lool/asac/didrocks for that
<jasoncwarner_> seb128 cool, thanks!
<seb128> yw
<didrocks> will be in image 97
<seb128> \o/
<Laney> what happened to the login sound?
<didrocks> kicked in a couple of hours
<seb128> Laney, that got dropped, sabdfl didn't want it enough to do an overrule
<Laney> fair enough, I like the sound of that :-)
<seb128> Laney, we also don't have login sound on by default/an UI to enable it
<seb128> so virtually useless
<Laney> huh, that is true
<Laney> is this what that guy designed for us?
<seb128> designed?
<seb128> well, he had one login sound
<Laney> the Mass Effect II composer or something
<Laney> there was some news about it the other month
<seb128> oh, I've no idea about that
<AlanBell> seb128: are the drums on ubiquity still there? (they were last week)
<Laney> that didn't change
<AlanBell> ok, cool
<seb128> AlanBell, I guess so, we didn't change anything related to that
<seb128> AlanBell, the talks was to use a different file for desktop-login, and then adding ringtones to touch
<seb128> AlanBell, we just did the ringtones
<lool> jasoncwarner_: I'm just seeding the sounds as we speak
<lool> however, I dont thin kthey are used yet
<lool> seb128: are the settings bit also going in tonight?
<AlanBell> yeah, that is fine, just the drums on the live cd are the "press ctrl+s for orca" cue
<seb128> lool, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas/0.0.1+13.10.20130730-0ubuntu2
<seb128> lool, that's in saucy
<seb128> lool, so should be on the next image?
<Laney> the settings mp just got approved
<seb128> right
<Laney> so assuming that gets released
<lool> seb128: didn't even know we had this package
<seb128> lool, so ^ should give you the new default for new installs
<Laney> (+ merged)
<seb128> then you need a settings landing, once the merge is in, for the Ui side (to get it to list the new sounds)
<lool> seb128: cool
<seb128> ok, on that note time for exercice
<seb128> I'm going to be back a bit in the evening
<seb128> Laney, thanks for handling the meeting tomorrow ;-)
<Laney> np
<Laney> have a nice flight
<seb128> ttyl from Zurich tomorrow, otherwise see you wednesday
<seb128> thanks
<jasoncwarner_> hey larsu, just sent you another .crash file from datetime. hopefully this one comes through. not sure why they aren't uploading. let me know if you don't get it. charles fyi
<charles> jasoncwarner_: is there a ticket for the datetime crash?
<jasoncwarner_> charles don't know mostly b/c it wasn't uploading properly. larsu thought it might be a known one already which is why I emailed the .crash file.
<charles> jasoncwarner_: ok, thanks
<charles> larsu: feel free to ping me if you see something ^
<mlankhorst> jasoncwarner_: oh I won't be here tomorrow, so for seb128's meeting: my action points: fixing xorg package-status debian versions. kernel fixes for radeon lock inversion. opened a conversation with android devs about fences/syncpoints. mesa 9.1.7 verification and mesa 9.2.1 upload.
<mlankhorst> oh and fixed a particularly nasty mir bug that was a blocker for testing nested mir
<mlankhorst> which took some time to find :P
<phillip_> How to nominate a font for inclusion in the Ubuntu repository?
<phillip_> The font is Courier Prime, hosted at http://http://quoteunquoteapps.com/courierprime/
<RAOF> phillip_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages is the process for requesting a new package; font packages are reasonably simple, so you could probably do most of the work yourself (which makes it much more likely to get done âº)
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-15
<vadi> Hi. I've added the Gnome 3 ppa (needed to get treeview in nautilus back), and since then Evince has crashed a couple of times on me. Launchpad has rejected both of my reports due to an outdated package: outdated debug symbol package for liblcms2-2: package version 2.5-0ubuntu1~raring1 dbgsym version 2.4-0ubuntu3.1
<vadi> However my system is fully updated and no updates are available. What can I do?
<RAOF> vadi: Remove the GNOME 3 PPA and see if Evince still crashes; your system is currently in an unsupportable state because you've got (at least) a version of liblcms2-2 that's not in the archive.
<vadi> Just remove the PPA and do nothing else? Or uninstall all of the new things? All I'd like is Nautilus with a treeview, because I've used the non-treeview version available in 13.04 for a good month and it unworkable.
<RAOF> vadi: As long as you've got your current version of liblcms2-2 installed (and possibly other things), Launchpad isn't going to be able to retrace any of your crashes (that have liblcms2-2 in their process space).
<vadi> So what does this mean of the GNOME 3 PPA? It is unstable and unsupported, or? The description does not mention such things, and it encourages reporting issues (which is what I've attempted to do).
<RAOF> vadi: It appears to mean that you can't get Launchpad to provide symbolic backtraces if you've got the GNOME 3 PPA enabled.
<vadi> Alright. But it also marks my reports as invalid. Should I unset that and mark them as new?
<RAOF> Yeah, that'd be about right.
<vadi> Alright. Thanks for your answers!
<darkxst> RAOF, vadi, we have ddebs on the GNOME3 PPA
<darkxst> but you have to add a "main/debug" to apt
<RAOF> darkxst: Sounds like you need to get the apport retracers to add that, then?
<darkxst> RAOF, we have our own retracer
<RAOF> darkxst: So then vadi has some other PPA installed?
<darkxst> vadi, do you have a link to the bug?
<darkxst> RAOF, the retracer did get the stuck the other day for a few days, so a bunch a reports ended getting invalidated due to outdated packages
<RAOF> darkxst: Ah, fair 'nuff.
<darkxst> and its not uncommon to have traces that can't be retraced (due to invalid core dumps, I presume)
<vadi> I did install the Gnome 3 ppa, not another
<vadi> darkxst: link to the bug apport closed? yes, moment
<vadi> darkxst: it is still private: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-gnome/+bug/1239883
<ubot2> vadi: Error: launchpad bug 1239883 not found
<darkxst> vadi, that one failed due to libreoffice PPA not having debug symbols
<vadi> I do have libreoffice PPA... had to add it, because LibreOffice kept crashing on .docx documents (Ubuntu 13.04's 4.0 version). It's affecting Evince backtracing?
<darkxst> and/or an invalid core dump
<vadi> That doesn't really leave me with a solution, and both of my Evince crashes have been rejected by LP. I'm not certain if making them public manually is save (whenever any information that should have been scrubbed was scrubbed).
<darkxst> vadi, you can make them public, just make sure the core dump is deleted and there is nothing revealing in the stacktraces
<darkxst> vadi, you can also try and get stacktraces locally and then attach them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
<vadi> I'll try the latter.
<vadi> It doesn't seem to work for me: http://pastebin.com/DKxVjjYH
<vadi> I'll try the first method. What file is the core dump? There isn't one with an obvious name.
<pitti> Good morning
<darkxst> vadi, you need to enable the deb-src lines for the PPA
<darkxst> and add main/debug to both lines
<Laney> hello!
<Laney> darkxst: hmm
<Laney> darkxst: bug #1237564 bug #1239886
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1237564 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Regression: some previous keyboard bindings & all newly created custom bindings fail if gnome-screensaver isn't installed" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237564
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1239886 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "regression: hotkeys no longer functional" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239886
<Laney> I don't /know/ that the second one is a dupe but it probably will turn out to be
<Laney> Wondering if we should resolve this by somehow not relying on g-screensaver from gsd, or use package relationships to make it always there
<Laney> It's only a Recommends atm
<darkxst> Laney, unity is not using gnome-screensaver anymore?
<darkxst> ctl-alt-L is sent to org.gnome.ScreenSaver for Lock
<darkxst> I don't see why it would affect any other keybindings though
<Laney> it is
<Laney> but it can be removed
<Laney> the problem is that it's an undeclared dependency of the media keys plugin now
<darkxst> Laney, gnome-shell does not use it though
<Laney> indeed
<darkxst> Laney, could be added as a depend on Unity?
<darkxst> although I guess it affects all other session
<Laney> sec
<Laney> I'll try and rework it to look at names we will definitely have
<seb128> hey desktopers
<darkxst> Laney it looks for Screensaver since that provides the lock method
<Laney> it'll still need to call that one
<Laney> but it's not needed for the rest of the media keys
<darkxst> it shouldnt affect the rest of the media keys
<Laney> what shouldn't?
<darkxst> gnome-screensaver being missing
<Laney> correct
<Laney> that's the current bug
<Laney> because we check for org.gnome.ScreenSaver when starting it now
<Laney> okay this seems to work
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6239963/
<didrocks> Laney: hey, do you have a phone handy?
<Laney> didrocks: sure
<didrocks> Laney: can you do me a favor? I don't have the time to test latest system settings and we want to land it
<didrocks> so latest image (97) + system-settings from ubuntu-unity/daily-build
<didrocks> if you can test those and give me a ack or nack, that would be really helpful :)
<darkxst> Laney, looks good (not tested here though)
<Laney> does xfce use this too?
<Laney> didrocks: ok, updating
<darkxst> Laney, I have no idea
<darkxst> I suspect not though
<Laney> oh well, won't get more broken
<Laney> they do have gsd
<Laney> didn't check if they use it directly though
<didrocks> Laney: thanks!
<Laney> didrocks: it seems ok
<didrocks> Laney: so, good to publish?
<Laney> Yeah
<didrocks> let's goooo
<Laney> It's indefinitely checking for updates but I doubt that is the fault of u-s-s
<didrocks> well, the UI is really stupid, so I would say no :)
<Mirv> didrocks: http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Saucy/view/Mir/job/cu2d-mir-saucy-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_mir_0.0.15+13.10.20131014-0ubuntu1.diff + http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Saucy/view/Mir/job/cu2d-mir-saucy-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_unity-system-compositor_0.0.1+13.10.20131015-0ubuntu1.diff + http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Saucy/view/Platform/job/cu2d-platform-sauc
<Mirv> + http://10.97.0.1:8080/view/cu2d/view/Saucy/view/Unity8/job/cu2d-unity8-saucy-3.0publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_unity-mir_0.1+13.10.20131015-0ubuntu1.diff
<Mirv> packaging acks
<didrocks> Mirv: +1
<Mirv> thanks
<Laney> sil2100: hey
<Laney> sil2100: did/are you look at the accountsservice background problem with u-s-s/phone?
<sil2100> Laney: yes, working on it in-between stuff - I had to add some debugging info to the UbuntuBackgroundPanel, since setting backgroundFile didn't trigger the change of the greeter background, I'm suspecting that maybe the object path is not entirely correct
<sil2100> Laney: so it's all being worked on
<Laney> ok
<Laney> i'd have looked at it otherwise
<Laney> did you check it through dbus on the commandline
<Laney> ?
<sil2100> Laney: yes, through cmd it works fine
<sil2100> I checked everything and everything is fine in code besides the object path, which I still need to check if is generated correctly
<sil2100> So I'll keep you up-to-date on that ;)
<didrocks> pitti: hey, sorry to bother you, but we are discussing with ogra on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1239815
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1239815 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Text not displayed properly in Chinese" [High,New]
<didrocks> we have font-droid installed on the device
<didrocks> 13:51:33      ogra_ | we have language-pack-zh-hans and language-pack-zh-hans-base as well as the gnome equivalents for both
<didrocks> as well
<didrocks> do you have any idea? (sorry for bothering you with non QA stuff)
<pitti> didrocks: hm, it could just be a broken .po file (step: check the .po file in desktop whether it displays properly)
<pitti> didrocks: or a broken fontconfig which assigns the wrong font to these glyphs (I know almost nothing about that, though)
<didrocks> pitti: ok, ogra is on another hint as well
<pitti> didrocks: or missing fonts
<didrocks> thanks pitti!
 * didrocks hugs pitti
<pitti> didrocks: do we have ttf-wqy-microhei?
<pitti> (sorry, phone not currently conneted)
<didrocks> pitti: no, installing and testing
<pitti> last time I checked that was our preferred CJK font
 * didrocks needs to reboot after blaming the OOM killer
<pitti> didrocks: do you know which po file these come from? ubuntu-system-settings?
<didrocks> pitti: yeah, ubuntu-system-settings
<didrocks> (not the right one, trying another one)
<pitti> po/zh.po looks alright here on desktop
<jibel> pitti, it is reported against u-s-s because I didn't really find a good target, but it affects all the UI including indicators and dash
<didrocks> yeah, I think a missing langpack
<didrocks> ok, not ttf-wqy-zenhei either
<didrocks> fonts-arphic-ukai is the one we need :)
<pitti> didrocks: no, missing langpack would just mean that the strings were in English
<pitti> didrocks: ah, we used to have fonts-arphic-ukai in the past, but I thought we replaced it with microhei as that was smaller and still good
<pitti> we don't have it on desktop, anywy
<didrocks> pitti: after installing that one, the squares are replaced
<didrocks> with glyphs
<lenios> just asking but, that's only chinese. What about japanese or korean?
<didrocks> jibel: can you try apt-get install fonts-arphic-ukai ?
<pitti> so on the phone we have dejavu-{core,extra}, droid, and freefont-ttf
<pitti> that's not much indeed
<didrocks> lenios: it seems that there are some kanji, then, I guess searching on the web will help more than I can do
<didrocks> jibel: weird, when selecting it, I get "FranÃ§ais suisse" selected
<jibel> didrocks, yes, that's what I'm reporting now
<pitti> yep, less zh_CN.po in the phone terminal shows the same
<didrocks> Laney: FYI ^
<jibel> didrocks, I confirm the fix for chinese and the finish reporting the 'franÃ§ais suisse' bug
<Laney> yes
<Laney> it's already reported
<didrocks> Laney: hum, getting fixed?
<didrocks> Laney: like, I think today will be the final system settings for V1, seems like a big bug :)
<jibel> it *is* a big bug
<Laney> alright alright, no need to big it up
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1234407
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1234407 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "wrong language displayed after changing the setting" [High,Confirmed]
<Laney> oh no
<Laney> not that one
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1239593
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1239593 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "LANGUAGE= needs more detailed settings on Ubuntu Touch" [Low,Confirmed]
<pitti> didrocks: still curious, I wonder which font is being used on the desktop for those
<pitti> didrocks: fonts-arphic-ukai is huge, do we have any limit at all on the phone/
<pitti> ?
<didrocks> Laney: hum, low, is it under work? (and here, it only picks franÃ§ais suisse when selecting the chinese one)
<Laney> try and review the branch on the first bug
<Laney> attente is the one working on the language panel mainly
<didrocks> Laney: quite a large review, we aren't supposed to fix/review upstream's ;)
<didrocks> Laney: just give us an ETA, I think this one will be on the bugs we track
<Laney> I don't have an ETA, I'm not tracking or working on all of the bugs personally
<Laney> Ask attente if he plans to do it otherwise I will see, but I don't know that panel at all
<jibel> didrocks, with the font I can see chinese characters on the language list but cannot select the language, it always returns to english
<didrocks> jibel: it return to suisse french for me
<didrocks> Laney: I think I'll have to ask seb128 tomorrow then
<Laney> Not trying to dodge it, but I'm just saying I can't give you an ETA on the fix since I don't know what it is
<didrocks> no worry
<Laney> I think returning to the previous language is the first one I listed
<didrocks> yeah, they seem mixed, but they aren't
<didrocks> attente: one you are around ^
<lenios> do you really need fonts-arphic-ukai do display chinese? i only have ttf-wqy-microhei on my desktop and i can display CJK correctly
<lenios> to*
<didrocks> lenios: we are talking about phone, that's what we just tested
<lenios> i know
<lenios> but according to package description and what i have on my desktop, i think ttf-wqy-microhei should be enough for phone
<lenios> if it's not working correctly, that's probably misconfiguration and not a missing font
<didrocks> lenios: possibly, it was the first one I tried without any success. Any debugging/help appreciated :)
<jibel> didrocks, there is definitely something wrong, 'search' on the top left is in chinese, categories of the scopes and u-s-s are in french and the rest in english
<Laney> attente's branch makes things nicer for me on my desktop
<Laney> it sets german to de_DE instead of de_LI(?)
<Laney> and displays the right language after I change it
<Laney> let me try building it for armhf and see what happens
<Laney> jibel: There's still a problem that it's not fully effective until you restart
<Laney> grr, how long do I have to charge the nexus 7 for before it'll stay on?
<jibel> Laney, yes, I did restart after I selected French but 'search' is still in Chinese
<Laney> weird
<Laney> ok, building with the branch for armhf now
<Laney> will check it after lunch
<desrt> good morning ubuntu people!!
<desrt> ara: hello!
<ara> desrt, good morning
<desrt> today we are in (very much not) sunny montreal
<attente> jibel, didrocks, the main issue right now is the session needs restarting after the language is set
<didrocks> attente: there is no feedback in the ui that it changed, it's changing back to the previous setting
<didrocks> hey desrt!
<desrt> didrocks: hi :)
<attente> didrocks, oh, can you try this branch instead? https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/ubuntu-system-settings/lp1234407
<didrocks> attente: not today, I think you need to rely on other upstreams :)
<attente> didrocks, heh ok :)
<Laney> attente: I think it fixes both bugs
<Laney> attente: Just double checking
<Laney> then will approve
<Laney> you didn't use the m_foo convention for private member variables though!
<attente> Laney, the locale number formats bug? i don't think it fixes that
<Laney> no
<Laney> the one where you get LANGUAGE=de instead of de_DE
<attente> oh, ok
<attente> i can do the m_foo thing in another merge
<Laney> sure
<Laney> haha
<Laney> it's funny seeing system messages in chinese
<Laney> didrocks: if we get this merged will you be able to release / get it in the image today?
<didrocks> Laney: yeah (or tomorrow at worst)
<Laney> oh
<Laney> thought you said today was the end of days
<Laney> So we'll get that one in and then we can see what's left over
<Laney> certainly LC_* and the rebooting one are still there
<Laney> attente: you in montreal?
<Laney> any good gossip?
<attente> word on the street is that the bagels are fantastic :)
<Laney> that's the kind of juicy news i was after
 * Laney drools
<didrocks> Laney: I meant, in archive today
<didrocks> Laney: so that it's in for tomorrow morning image kick
<Laney> fair enough
<Laney> I want to fix this wifi scrolling bug too
<kenvandine> Laney, give me a shout if you need a review
<Laney> kenvandine: wilco
<kenvandine> didrocks, shouldn't we be updating the saucy stacks to use 13.10 branches?
<didrocks> kenvandine: not yet, we'll do that when we release
<kenvandine> i'm starting to get some webcred branches that don't really need to end up in 13.10, but worry about getting them mixed up in trunk before other potential fixes show up
<attente> Laney, can you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/gtk/drop-git_padding_value/+merge/191217?
<attente> i think seb128 forgot to do the actual dropping of the patch
<Laney> attente: you don't explain why at any point
<Laney> Also use 'dch' and put something in debian/changelog please
<Laney> Also this won't be in saucy
<attente> Laney, this is just to amend seb's commit
<attente> the drop didn't seem to happen
<Laney> oh I don't know what that is
<Laney> ah
<attente> oh. the quilt patches don't apply since
<attente> the patch was a git patch
<attente> i think it was just a small oversight
<Laney> I get it, thanks
<Laney> missed that detail
<Laney> kenvandine: MPed, you should get mail soon
<kenvandine> Laney, ok
<Laney> ty
<Laney> Oh, meeting time!
<qengho> YAY
<jibel> Laney, wrt. bug 1240058 you'll note the nice value of LANGUAGE=fr_FR:zh_CN:en :)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1240058 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "UI uses chinese, french and english simultaneously" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1240058
<Laney> qengho, Sweetshark, desrt, larsu, attente, tkamppeter, mlankhorst, Laney: MEETING!
<desrt> i sure hope seb128 is safe
<qengho> What's up with seb?  Travelling?
<Laney> ya
<desrt> in a plane
<desrt> on his way to montreal
<Laney> all the cool kids are going to canada
<qengho> So, Canada will finally have cool people?
<Laney> as opposed to cold ones
<qengho> Okay, I'm first?
<Laney> let's go
<Laney> qengho: !
<qengho> I'll need help with one of my bugs.  The second.  My list:
<qengho> - c-b: Debugging bug 1232575.  Narrowed down to small patch. Another day or so to fix.
<qengho> - c-b: Debugging bug 1225215.  Still a mystery.
<qengho> - then, will release.
<qengho> - worked Monday (a holiday), and will exchange for (probably) Friday.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232575 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chrome.extension not available when called from extension scripts in Chromium but works on Chrome" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232575
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1225215 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chromium doesn't shut down. Next run gets "Your profile could not be opened"." [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1225215
<qengho> Er, sorry, one didn't paste, the problematic one.  Sorry.
<qengho> This one!  Bug 1235490
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1235490 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chrome/chromium tearing and display corruption" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235490
<qengho> No idea the cause.
<Laney> Maybe mlankhorst or someone can help you debug issues
<Laney> Don't think he's here though
<qengho> I'll look for him.  Thanks.
<Laney> Haven't seen anything like that personally, thankfully
<qengho> That's all for me.
 * Laney is nvidia all over
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> Sweetshark: howdy
<desrt> uh oh
<Laney> naughty
<desrt> tsk tsk tsk
<Laney> ok, moving on ...
<Laney> desrt: go, and please give us some better montreal gossip than attente did earlier :P
<Laney> bagel news
<desrt> oh man
<desrt> bagels have been coming out of our ears
 * larsu could go for bagels again
<desrt> they are _so_ delicious when you get them fresh out of the oven
<desrt> you have no idea
<desrt> larsu has had morning bagels for 3 days straight...
<desrt> anyway....
<desrt> the summit was pretty good.  we're starting to land a lot of code that has been in the review stages forever
<Sweetshark> eh, /me is late
<desrt> the search algorithm stuff i was working on last week landed
<attente> montreal bagels are worthy as legitimate gossip :P
<desrt> which means that the desktop file stuff (which uses it) can land this week
<desrt> gnotification will probably also land this week
<desrt> gtk dynamic accel changing (the start of action descriptions work started long ago) landed today
<desrt> gsubprocess will probably come in the next week or so as well
<desrt> so really lots of major features got past the 'contentious' stage of reviews, more or less
<desrt> working right now on a good general pattern for dealing with these thread safety issues that we've been seeing with things like gsettings
<desrt> since i'll also want to use the same pattern in the new GAppInfoMonitor code (since it's similar: you can have several objects, each of which is driven by a common backend in a worker thread, but has to dispatch the signal on each object into the correct target thread)
<desrt> i hope to get that sorted today.  that's about all.
<Laney> ooh, looks like a lot of fun stuff for next cycle then
<Laney> thanks desrt
<Laney> I see a Sweetshark
<Sweetshark> - adjusting the bibisect scripting to runnable instdir http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Bibisect http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/ANN-feature-instdir-pushed-to-master-td4073602.html
<Sweetshark> - kicked off/boosted various upstream EasyHacks: fdo#7014, fdo#70393, fdo#70373, fdo#70357, fdo#70448, fdo#70422, fdo#66750
<Sweetshark> - various clean up tasks
<Sweetshark> - Hackfest Freiburg preparations https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Freiburg2013
<Sweetshark> - started merging ubuntu-saucy-4-1 with debian-experimental-4-2 for t-series
<Sweetshark> EOF
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> how's LO looking for saucy?
<Sweetshark> Laney: all set
<Laney> will we be upgrading off the rc or doesn't it matter?
<Sweetshark> Laney: rc3 = final in everything but the name
 * Laney nods
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> larsu: here?
<larsu> yep
<Sweetshark> Laney: so, rather do an SRU/update to the next release (4.1.3)
<larsu> - support per-profile indicator positions for unity7 and 8 (neither is merged)
<larsu> - show source icons again in indicator-messages
<larsu> - give sound menu in the greeter a proper size
<larsu> - sound-menu: show only running players on the phone
<larsu> - remove broken volume notification on the phone (notify-osd doesn't do sync notifications)
<larsu> - system-settings: no startup animations for sliders in the battery and location panel
<larsu> and I was at montreal summit as well
<larsu> but I guess desrt gave a good overview of that already
<desrt> larsu: what?  not more discussion about bagels?
<desrt> oh wait.  we forgot about the smoked meat!
<larsu> desrt: it's you who brings up the bagels all the time
<larsu> smoked meat! Is it lunch time yet?!
<Laney> did the notification fix get released?
<larsu> don't know
<desrt> the indicator-messages thing?
<Laney> haha
<larsu> let me check
<larsu> you mean the sound notifications on the phone, right?
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> Looks like I don't have it here
<Laney> so we're good on that one
<larsu> looks like it was, yes
<Laney> great
<Laney> thanks :-)
<Laney> attente: your turn
<attente> non-latin keyboard shortcuts bug
<attente> language settings: correctly obtain available locales
<attente> display language update bugs
<attente> in-progress: ctrl+shift input sources switching bug (#1218322)
<attente> (eof)
<Laney> oh great, was going to ask you about that one
<Laney> bug #1240058 might interest you
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1240058 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "UI uses chinese, french and english simultaneously" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1240058
<attente> Laney, is that just a matter of not enough translation done?
<attente> oh.
<Laney> Well, it seems that selected languages are preprended to $LANGUAGES
<attente> maybe not
<attente> right
<Laney> instead of replacing the top one
<attente> ok
<Laney> I guess that's what AS does, but it might not be the right thing
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> tkamppeter: hey
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: More fixes, especially use Poppler as PDF->PostScript filter for Brother and Konica Minolta PostScript printers. Released 1.0.40 and packaged this for Saucy.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<Laney> thanks
<jasoncwarner_> morning all.
<Laney> hey jasoncwarner_
<Laney> mlankhorst: you here?
<Laney> Think he said he wouldn't be, so me:
<Laney> â¢ Mainly bug fixing for release
<Laney> â¢ Looked at g-s-d bugs
<Laney> â Fixed media key handling to not rely on gnome-screensaver (being tested)
<Laney> â Nasty upower regression meaning properties via libupower-glib were broken which crippled lid close and broke god knows what else (suspecting a unity multi monitor bug was down to this too)
<Laney> â¢ Updated farstream-0.2 for bugfixes
<Laney> â¢ Bug fixes in apturl, sessioninstaller
<Laney> â¢ gmime FTBFS fix (prompted by arm64)
<Laney> â¢ System-settings:
<Laney> â Reviews
<Laney> â Scrolling in wifi panel
<Laney> â Buglet with translations in sound panel
<Laney> â URI Handler: switching in existing instance
<Laney> â Alignment in timedate panel
<Laney> â¢ Patch piloted
<Laney> \0
<Laney> Going to see about making the wi-fi panel use more standard components now
<Laney> so it looks a bit less weird
<Laney> Anyone got anything else?
<Laney> righto, thanks all
<Laney> happy saucy!
<mlankhorst> Laney: yeah i put down soe work items before :P
<mlankhorst> 21:31 < mlankhorst> jasoncwarner_: oh I won't be here tomorrow, so for seb128's meeting: my action points: fixing xorg package-status debian versions. kernel fixes for radeon lock inversion. opened a
<mlankhorst>                     conversation with android devs about fences/syncpoints. mesa 9.1.7 verification and mesa 9.2.1 upload.
<mlankhorst> 21:31 < mlankhorst> oh and fixed a particularly nasty mir bug that was a blocker for testing nested mir
<mlankhorst> 21:31 < mlankhorst> which took some time to find :P
<Laney> ta
<bschaefer> Hello, is anyone having issues with the hardware volume buttons not working? (-/+ and mute)?
<bschaefer> on 13.10, possibly from the latest release from g-s-d?
<Laney> Yeah, there are bugs
<Laney> What DE are you using?
<bschaefer> unity
<Laney> There's one I was looking at earlier ...
<Laney> do you have gnome-screensaver installed?
<bschaefer> i do not, i was testing out a new light-locker package
<Laney> ok
<bschaefer> that would explain that problem :)
<Laney> please try g-s-d from ppa:laney/experimental
<bschaefer> cool, let me try it out
<Laney> it's supposed to remove that dependency
<Laney> bug #1236564
<Laney> lies
<Laney> bug #1237564
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1237564 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Regression: some previous keyboard bindings & all newly created custom bindings fail if gnome-screensaver isn't installed" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1237564
<bschaefer> Laney, awesome thanks you!
 * bschaefer goes to test ppa
<Laney> I just want someone to tell me it works then I'll upload to saucy
<Laney> probably for SRU at this point
<bschaefer> yeah, hopefully gnome-screensaver isn't a common package removed until that patch goes through :)
<bschaefer> Laney, \o/, works :)
<bschaefer> thanks!
 * bschaefer makes comment on bug
<Laney> great, cheers
<kenvandine> Laney, approved
<Laney> messy buckets
<jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks , around?
<alan_g> cyphermox or stgraber - yesterday seb128 referred me to you about a problem I have on my desktop PC. (http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6241293/) Short version: I got my system in a state where I had to switch IP6 to Local to get dhcp working. can you help?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: was in a HO, here
<jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks :) hey, I'm trying to update and I'm getting a 'image failed to download' or something close to that. I'm getting it always today and I've always seen it hit 100% downloaded. Know anything about that? Also, probably would be a good thing to change the 'install and restart' button to something else in that case. Maybe 'try again' and/or 'cancel'?
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: also, wasn't sure of the reason for getting that. I asked a few others and they said they've never seen it. I guess I'm one of the lucky few ;)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: did you update everyday?
<didrocks> or did you wait for a few days?
<jasoncwarner_> I have been. this is image 96
<jasoncwarner_> I think I was on 92 maybe? or 94?
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: if the image is too big, the service can't download a new image
<jasoncwarner_> the image is 96m, if I recall
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: barry has a fix for that, but if you are blocked, the only way for you now is to reflash
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: the daemon is still telling that installed is ready and can be apply, that's why the ui is showing those buttons instead of retry
<jasoncwarner_> didrocks: gah, ok. do you happen to know the size limit (just for my own knowledge)
<didrocks> I think barry fixed that one as well
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: it was downloading in memory, so whatever memory you still have free on the phone :)
<didrocks> (now it will be on disk)
<jasoncwarner_> ok, thanks didrocks. I guess I'm reflashing today then ;)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: yeah, no other choise, sorry ;)
<didrocks> choice*
<jasoncwarner_> thanks, didrocks will flash in a few!
<didrocks> yw!
<jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks , just talked to pat and steve and they pointed me to this bug which was closed. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1232273
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1232273 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Updates will not complete if the system-image service times out" [High,Fix released]
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: it's a different one where barry had to track it
<didrocks> (an older one)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-image/+bug/1233521
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1233521 in system-image (Ubuntu Saucy) "system-image cannot recover from a partial download without rebooting" [High,Triaged]
<jasoncwarner_> thanks didrocks
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: and that one as well: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-image/+bug/1236818
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1236818 in system-image (Ubuntu) "No update downloaded" [High,Triaged]
<didrocks> (not fixed though)
<didrocks> jasoncwarner_: basically barry disabled the persistence mode, which is what agreed between the ui and service
<didrocks> hence you can see this "redownload, restart, no pauseâ¦"
 * didrocks really needs to go now :)
<jasoncwarner_> later didrocks !
<jasoncwarner_> hey larsu and charles, any luck on that indicator-datetime-service bug?
<larsu> jasoncwarner_: I'm just getting around to that
<larsu> charles: have you looked into that yet?
<jasoncwarner_> thanks, larsu, can you guys jump on that today? release is only a few days away now!
<larsu> jasoncwarner_: yes.
<jasoncwarner_> thanks larsu
<qengho> mlankhorst: I heard you might be able to give me a pointer on how to debug something. https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235490
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1235490 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chrome/chromium tearing and display corruption" [Undecided,In progress]
<Sarvatt> qengho: that should be fixed as of x-x-v-intel 2:2.99.904-0ubuntu1
<qengho> Sarvatt: Oh?  The bug report is a few days stale. I'll check it out.
<qengho> Sarvatt: thanks
<Sarvatt> yeah that was a highly annoying problem with SNA on one generation of intel GPUs that took months to get fixed but its definitely fixed now :)
<qengho> robru: If you have  xserver-xorg-video-intel 2:2.99.904-0ubuntu1  installed, can you reproduce the Chromium tearing now?
<robru> qengho, gimme a sec
<qengho> robru: no hurry.
<qengho> robru: comment at #1235490.
<robru> qengho, bug #1235490
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1235490 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "chrome/chromium tearing and display corruption" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1235490
<robru> there it is ;-)
<robru> qengho, ugh, 500 upgraded packages since friday ;-)
<qengho> You can't blame be for that!
<robru> qengho, IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!
<abner86> hello
<RAOF> qHello.
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-16
<pitti> Good morning
<mlankhorst> Hello, world!\n
<didrocks> hey mlankhorst!
<didrocks> how are you?
<mlankhorst> Excellent, you?
<didrocks> I'm fine thanks!
<czajkowski> didrocks: Congrats!
<didrocks> thanks czajkowski ;)
<Laney> hello!
<czajkowski> Laney: ello ello
<Laney> hello czajkowski
<Laney> where in the world are you today?
<czajkowski> Laney: :) just back in Guildford, no more travel for 10 days then off to Italy, Ireland, NYC, Toronto
<Laney> glamorous
<czajkowski> did just get back from Paris and Munich. so need a little downtime :)
<didrocks> hey Laney!
<Laney> ola didrocks!
<Laney> Â¿cÃ³mo estÃ¡s?
<didrocks> thanks for the fix! (didn't tested it)
<didrocks> going well. Seems a busy day ahead, but fine!
<didrocks> and you?
<Laney> got a doctors appointment later, otherwise fine!
<Laney> not sure which fix you're referring to, but thanks
<Laney> ;-)
<didrocks> Laney: I guess the language selector seems you/cyphermox landed it :)
<Laney> ah well I just approved it
<Laney> attente did the work
<didrocks> yeah, nice to get that fixed! (again not tested, just trusting you ;))
<didrocks> attente: thanks!
<Laney> wow
<Laney> just got scared that we broke it
<Laney> turns out that the latest image doesn't have new uss ;-)
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, it was blocked in proposed, no-one hinted it
<didrocks> (I did it this morning)
<Laney> ah
<pitti> $ cat /etc/default/lxc | pastebinit  -
<pitti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6245149/
<pitti> sorry
<pitti> -ECHANNEL
<pitti> $ status lxc-net
<pitti> status: Unknown job: lxc-net
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, hey, how are you?
<kenvandine> great, and you?
<seb128> I'm good thanks
<seb128> hacking in the MontrÃ©al office with larsu desrt and attente
<desrt> we had bagels this morning
<desrt> they were extremely delicious
<kenvandine> rub it in...
<larsu> desrt: ...
<desrt> larsu is a hater
<desrt> he doesn't like montreal-style bagels
<desrt> crazy, right?
<larsu> desrt: stop trolling, it's not Friday!
<Laney> Welcome to #ubuntu-bagel-lovers
<cyphermox> didrocks: indeed I had not hinted it because it was not in the landing plan, and I wasn't sure anymore
<didrocks> cyphermox: ok, no worry ;)
<cyphermox> seb128: what, dude, you in the office too?
<didrocks> cyphermox: we didn't spin an image anyway
<seb128> cyphermox, hey, yes I am! do you plan to come work here one day this week?
<cyphermox> didrocks: ok
<cyphermox> seb128: yeah, tomorrow and friday I can
<seb128> great
 * cyphermox should get in the office more
<Laney> all the fun in montreal
<cyphermox> so, you guys want to come back for a sprint in January :D
<Laney> stgraber should come in too!
<cyphermox> Laney: poke him, he might
<Laney> just did
<Laney> :P
<cyphermox> I went to lunch with him yesterday
<cyphermox> Laney: are you there too?
<cyphermox> omg.
<Laney> nah
<cyphermox> it's like I'm missing a big party :)
<Laney> Just living vicariously through the hourly bagel updates
<cyphermox> ah!
<cyphermox> seb128: desrt: larsu: attente: anyone else?
<stgraber> ah sounds like I'll have to walk a whole 5 minute and get to the office then ;)
<stgraber> maybe this afternoon, depends on how testing is going as I doubt we've got gigabit access to the ISO images at the office, so probably best to do that here than to annoy everyone there by saturating the link ;)
<seb128> cyphermox, not desktopers no, but there is one table of certification people next to us
<cyphermox> ah
<cyphermox> yeah I guess I'm usually at that table
<cyphermox> sil2100: poke, you still around?
<sil2100> cyphermox: always
<sil2100> cyphermox: what's up?
<cyphermox> sil2100: curious if you could tell me what's up with mediaplayer-app for landing?
<seb128> shrug
<seb128> Laney, sorry, I think we did conflicting changes to g-s-d :/
<Laney> where?
<seb128> Laney, I just pushed/uploaded a 0ubuntu7, then saw your email about keybindings/screensaver
<Laney> ubuntu*7*?
<seb128> ups
<seb128> 8
<Laney> you'll get a reject then :-)
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-settings-daemon/ubuntu
<seb128> Laney, well, I've those pushed in the vcs
<Laney> I didn't push as it didn't get accepted yet
<seb128> Laney, did you forget to commit?
<Laney> but it is now
<seb128> :-(
<Laney> let me merge
<seb128> Laney, is your 0ubuntu8 a SRU or for release?
<Laney> release
<Laney> already in
<seb128> ok
<sil2100> cyphermox: ok, so I was still getting a crash file when testing the bug in mention
<seb128> Laney, maybe just push --overwrite your vcs and I can redo my changes
<Laney> seb128: It's ok, I'm just merging it
<Laney> applies apart from changelog
<seb128> Laney, should I reupload as 0ubuntu9 or do you it as well?
<Laney> you can do that
<seb128> Laney, ok, thanks for fixing the vcs
<Laney> sure
<Laney> i should have pushed without the tag
<Laney> seb128: okay, pushed
<Laney> I had to overwrite the tag
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> Laney, how do you do that?
<Laney> just push --overwrite
<seb128> ok
<Laney> but after merging trunk normally
<Laney> wee
<Laney> background writing to AS works
<Laney> turned out that reading from it was broken too
<seb128> Laney, is that what leads to the preview to always show the fallback image?
<Laney> yes
<seb128> k
<seb128> is there a bug open about it?
<Laney> I guess QDbusInterface::property() didn't do what I thought
<seb128> didrocks, do you know if there a landing planned for qmenumodel?
<Laney> hm, don't know because that UI is hidden
<sil2100> cyphermox: actually, I'm publishing mediaplayer-app now if you have nothing against it - I received some info from upstream so all is ok
<Laney> I'm going to build it for armhf now and see if that weird same/different logic actually works
<didrocks> seb128: I didn't see one
<seb128> Laney, I guess it's part of what I reported in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1237860
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1237860 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "[background] the greeter selector isn't working" [High,In progress]
<seb128> didrocks, ok, I'm adding one
<Laney> oh yeah I fixed that too
<Laney> let me steal the assignment
<Laney> lp:~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/as-background-fixes
<seb128> didrocks, ok, added to the landing asks list
<seb128> l228
<didrocks> thanks seb128
<seb128> didrocks, it's a segfault fix (unity8 segfaulting when using indicator)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I'll schedule it then
<seb128> didrocks, qmenumodel is not used in the desktop, what do you mean "desktop component migrates to..."?
<seb128> didrocks, thanks
<didrocks> seb128: did I say there here?
<seb128> didrocks, f228
<seb128> didrocks, well you added that blob on text in the comment column
<didrocks> not me writing this
<seb128> ok, the line has your color around it
<didrocks> or it's a wrong past
<seb128> so I though it was you
<cyphermox> sil2100: great, thanks
 * didrocks had bug with pasting previously
<seb128> didrocks, google doc history says it's you
<seb128> didrocks, ok, all good, I put the bug link back instead
<didrocks> seb128: oh, I clicked on the link
<didrocks> seb128: there is a bug
<didrocks> when makes when you click on the link, it's copying from your paste
<didrocks> already had this this morning
<seb128> do you middle click?
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> to open in a new tab
<didrocks> (which works)
<seb128> didrocks, left click open in a new tab by default in gdocs
<didrocks> ok, I should try to map my mind with that
<Laney> Listening to Sam's Song, one is to notice calm and elegance, the sound takes the ear to higher peaks and gradually diminishes the rhythm to close the quiet-yet-vivid pattern, setting a natural gap of silence contrasting with its bold start.
 * Laney wonders how ogra_ feels about that :P
<seb128> Laney, you need to stop grouping unrelated changes!
<Laney> what did I do?
 * seb128 looks at https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/wifi-scrolling/+merge/191223 doing code cleanups in background
<seb128> Laney, ^ :p
<Laney> what
<seb128> Laney, ChangeImage got dropped in that merge
<Laney> it wasn't meant to
<Laney> I bet I did that on the wrong branch
<seb128> k
<seb128> kenvandine, ^ no cookie for not spotting that
<Laney> ah whoops sorry
<seb128> no worry ;-)
<Laney> I probably forgot to close the project in qt creator
<seb128> some wrapping in the middle as well :p
<kenvandine> wait... wasn't meant to?
<kenvandine> the commit said removing dead code... and i tested the package
<kenvandine> so i didn't complain :)
<Laney> it wasn't part of the same change
<kenvandine> Laney, yeah... but i wasn't going to nitpick about that ;)
<Laney> :P
<kenvandine> like seb128 does :-D
 * kenvandine ducks
<seb128> kenvandine, well, as a rule it's good to do separate commits for separate logicial changesets
<seb128> roooh
<kenvandine> seb128, agreed... but not a good time to do a few round trips
<seb128> kenvandine, wait for next time you need a review, I'm going to show you what nitpicking means :p
<kenvandine> :-D
<Laney> make him fix things that he didn't even do
<kenvandine> and it was a separate commit, so easy to bisect if we ever needed to
<seb128> kenvandine, the commit msg/description are "[wifi] Properly set the list of networks up for scrolling"
<seb128> kenvandine, nothing there about cleaning or removing code ;_)
<kenvandine> seb128, grr... well the commit message for the merge
<kenvandine> but there are more levels :)
<seb128> kenvandine, nah, no excuse there :p
<Laney> I was going to put it in the as-background MP
 * kenvandine passes seb128 another bagel
<Laney> where it would have been unrelated but a bit less so ...
<Laney> at least in the same plugin
<seb128> yum ;-)
<seb128> Laney, kenvandine: well anyway, no real issue
<kenvandine> i knew the bagel would make seb128 happy :)
<seb128> ;-)
<alan_g> cyphermox or stgraber - on Monday seb128 referred me to you about a problem I have on my PC. Short version: I got my system in a state where I had to switch IP6 to "Local" to get dhcp working. Can you help?
<stgraber> alan_g: I'm slightly busy with releasing Ubuntu 13.10, not sure about cyphermox
<alan_g> stgraber: I can relate to that. (I may well bug you next week though.)
<seb128> didrocks, do you plan to do a indicator-datetime landing soon? can you get r274 with it?
<didrocks> seb128: it's building now
<seb128> didrocks, including r274?
<mhr3_> pitti, any ideas why choosing [S]end report in apport-cli on the phone doesn't do anything/
<mhr3_> ?
 * seb128 really wants that fix in
<pitti> mhr3_: it does, it marks the .crash for whoopsie upload (that happens in the background)
<pitti> mhr3_: we disabled upload to Launchpad for the final release
<mhr3_> pitti, oh, so there is no way to get to the report?
<pitti> mhr3_: it should end up on errors.ubuntu.com
<mhr3_> pitti, i haven't seen anything armhf-y there :/
<pitti> mhr3_: if you want a LP report, you can manually comment out the 'problem_types': ['Bug', 'Package'] line in /etc/apport/crashdb.conf
<mhr3_> pitti, will try that, thx
<didrocks> seb128: yes (or I would have say so :))
<seb128> didrocks, great, thanks (getting apport to trigger everytime I use the unity-greeter here due to this buggy g_error)
<didrocks> ok ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: joining?
<seb128> bregma, do you know if anyone is looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1221673 ? (it's ranked high on e.u.c for saucy)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1221673 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in CompAction::initiate()" [Medium,Triaged]
 * bregma looks
<didrocks> cyphermox: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/calendar/Y2Fub25pY2FsLmNvbV91cTRvNmQyMWJvNmJ0bm1mcW9xZWtsNTdnOEBncm91cC5jYWxlbmRhci5nb29nbGUuY29t.cg7k3h1nmqml7psc1nn68223i0
<czajkowski> didrocks: you know one day we're all just going to join it :)
<didrocks> czajkowski: that would be fun :)
<seb128> Laney, should I play with https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/ubuntu-system-settings/as-background-fixes or do you still want to do work on it before that?
<Laney> you can see if it works
<Laney> the basic functionality
<Laney> but I'm trying to fix the 'same/different' thing back up
<Laney> seems some bugs crept in
<Laney> like people calling setUpImages() unnecessarily
<seb128> Laney, yeah, I had a look at the code but it's more complex that I though it would be for what it has to do ;-)
<seb128> well, part of the complexity is to handle the "keep track of what image changed the most recently"
<Laney> yes
<syeekick> hi
<seb128> Laney, so yeah, with your branch the preview displays the right image now ;-)
<cyphermox> alan_g: I tried to answer you before, there has been issues with that previously, but if you could paste the config file for your connection, without the password if there are any
<cyphermox> alan_g: that would be a fine in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections
<Laney> seb128: \o/
<alan_g> cyphermox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6246521/
<seb128> Laney, setting the image still doesn't work, but I'm testing on the desktop and getting desktop-exec and desktop-single apport prompt, so maybe issues with upstart-app-launch
<seb128> blaming tedg for that
<Laney> ooer
<Laney> I never tried content hub stuff on desktop
<cyphermox> alan_g: ah, that should just work, what happens if you set ipv6 back to auto?
<alan_g> cyphermox: trying...
<seb128> Laney, I get the gallery-app properly spawned but when I click pick I get the bugs
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> I don't think it's really been worked on there
 * Laney does some small refactoring to make this toggle work
<seb128> it aborts on ""Unable to find keyfile for application ''"
<seb128> Laney, right
<alan_g> cyphermox: that breaks it
<alan_g> cyphermox: that breaks it
<alan_g> cyphermox: It's a bad time for me now - hitting EOD with family commitments. I'll try again tomorrow.
<Laney> okay notifying of the as change is broken
<Laney> let me check that, might have to fix it in the morning though
<seb128> Laney, no hurry, those controls are currently disabled on the touch image
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> they work though, would be nice to get it back
<seb128> Laney, indeed, I'm not sure what to do about the "reset" button if we re-enable the second control
<seb128> just as a warning, if some people have the unity8 saucy package installed, it might make your boot hang after today's update, remove /etc/init/boot-hooks
<seb128> oh, a robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> well hello seb128
<seb128> hey robert_ancell, how are you?
<robert_ancell> seb128, good. I was looking at gnome-control-center bugs yesterday. Man, we need to declare bug bankruptcy there :)
<seb128> haha, not only there
<robert_ancell> But errors.ubuntu.com is great for finding the bugs that matter!
<seb128> yes, I stopped trying to clean bugs lists
<seb128> I just glance over titles to spot interesting ones, and use e.u.c
<robert_ancell> We need to stop apport dumping bugs in there until they float to the top of e.u.c, it's just making it too hard to follow the list
<seb128> robert_ancell, is g-c-c list that spammed?
<seb128> robert_ancell, btw you picked a segfault in a panel we don't even use :p
<seb128> we still use system-config-printer
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, really? So all those bugs are from the gnome ubuntu people then :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, guess so
<robert_ancell> It was #44 on e.u.c I think
<seb128> one the daily view?
<robert_ancell> monthly 13.10
<seb128> k
<seb128> I don't like the default daily
<seb128> not enough data points there
<robert_ancell> That seems the most useful list to look at
<robert_ancell> yeah
<seb128> I tend to do "time range" and enter 10 days worth of backlog
<seb128> because on a month you get just too many "already fixed"
<robert_ancell> seb128, aren't the fixed ones hidden from the list?
<seb128> robert_ancell, they are supposed to be striked in the list, but that works only when there is a bug report linked which got closed, which is often not the case
<robert_ancell> ah
<robert_ancell> The month view I had seemed to have all active bugs, but that might have been a coincidence
<robert_ancell> Laney, did you see you introduced a crasher in the logind changes in lightdm :P
<seb128> robert_ancell, the website is slow, it takes a while before the view refresh and get striked and colored lines
<robert_ancell> I thought that was fixed because I didn't see the update. Maybe it's even slower now!
<seb128> bah, and urls are buggy in firefox
<seb128> e.g https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2013.10&from=2013-10-06&to=2013-10-16
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, did slangasek let the g-c-c fix through anyway? I was expected it would be SRU'd
<seb128> that redirect to the day view
<seb128> robert_ancell, they still need to do respins for ubiquity fixes so they get proposed pending updates in
<robert_ancell> seb128, also clicking through the options sometimes leaves a filter active in the URL but not in the UI, e.g. &version=1.2.3
<robert_ancell> so it ignores all the packages not version 1.2.3
<seb128> yes, that's buggy
<robert_ancell> I think evan would say help welcome :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you use firefox?
<robert_ancell> yes
<seb128> robert_ancell, https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1179859
<robert_ancell> just because it's the default
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1179859 in Errors "Release combo broken in Firefox" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<robert_ancell> awesome
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'm struggling to find appropriate bugs to fix in the u-s-s... Not sure if that's a good or bad sign
<kenvandine> robert_ancell, they might be easier to find in a couple days... :)
<kenvandine> assuming we get a spike of people using touch
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, i.e. users filing bugs in the bug tracker?
<kenvandine> i wonder how the demographic will change... less people filing bugs... and just rely on crash reports
<kenvandine> seb128, is apport going to be disabled in touch for tomorrow?
<seb128> kenvandine, is it enabled
<seb128> ?
<kenvandine> yes...
<kenvandine> i see apport hogging cpu a few times a day..
<seb128> kenvandine, we don't turn off whoopsie in released, and that's not user visible on the phone (should happen in background)
<kenvandine> ah, right
<kenvandine>  /etc/default/apport has enabled=1
<seb128> robert_ancell, well, u-s-s are mostly owned/done for v1, but we have quite some panels/UIs hidden than we are going to enable back next cycle
<seb128> though a bit part of the missing is blocked on backends and apis missing
<seb128> e.g not on us
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, that's what it looked like to me. Might be best to wait until the sprint to plan that work
<seb128> right
<seb128> robert_ancell, are you looking for bugs to stuff to work on? or are you happy to just pick from e.u.c?
<robert_ancell> seb128, looking for useful work to do, which is mostly cleaning house in lightdm at the moment and browsing e.u.c for opportunities
<robert_ancell> Was looking at cleaning bugs but after g-c-c have decided that's not a worthwhile use of time :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, ok, I might bounce a few things your way as I cross them
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, it's not
<robert_ancell> please do
<desrt> robert_ancell: hey.  welcome back!
<robert_ancell> desrt, hey!
<robert_ancell> cheers!
<seb128> robert_ancell, if you feel like hacking on a "feature", https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1164016 might be worth addressing for the lts
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1164016 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "restore type-ahead find" [Medium,Triaged]
<seb128> robert_ancell, we might want to think about polish for the lts
<robert_ancell> sure, looks fun
<robert_ancell> mterry is the phone build 99 supposed to be using Mir? My one still have lightdm configured to use surfaceflinger
<seb128> robert_ancell, it should since e.g 96
<mterry> robert_ancell, it's in "surfaceflinger mode" but it's using Mir.  It just isn't using u-s-c
<robert_ancell> mterry, but surfaceflinger isn't running?
<seb128> robert_ancell, ps aux | grep surface
<mterry> robert_ancell, right
<seb128> robert_ancell, it shouldn't
<robert_ancell> ok, cool
<Laney> robert_ancell: haha, oh dear
<Laney> is it fixed?
<robert_ancell> Laney, yeah, seemed really unlikely in practise for some reason, but noticed it looking through the untriaged lightdm bugs - fixed in 1.8.2
<robert_ancell> I probably reviewed the MP, so you can blame me :)
<Laney> sorry about that
<seb128> Laney, do you plan to SRU the new glib point release? (just asking to not dup work)
<Laney> seb128: yeah, at some point this week
<seb128> Laney, can you include https://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?h=glib-2-38&id=44edc3829d6db3fabe22d837eaaf2638003516c9 (it fixes lp #1217230)
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1217230 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "[Regression] Can't copy files from digital camera (Operation not supported by backend)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1217230
<seb128> Laney, I tested the commit today/confirmed it works
<Laney> yeah, saw that one go past
<seb128> Laney, great, thanks
<seb128> for the record I'm looking at SRUing the new GTK
<seb128> just dealing with a regression in the gtkicontheme code in that update (should be fix in git soon, I'm going to backport the fix)
<robert_ancell> RAOF, is there really no equivalent to bzr init-repo in git? It's really frustrating how git is optimizing me for disk space (which I have loads of) over ease of working on different branches...
<RAOF> robert_ancell: There really is no equivalent to bzr init-repo.
<robert_ancell> :(
<RAOF> robert_ancell: When I want to do that, I just git clone a bunch of times.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah I'm doing that, and it's not optimising for network usage due to the multiple downloads - or should I clone from a "trunk" checkout?
<robert_ancell> i.e. mkdir nautilus; cd nautilus; git clone ssh://rancell@git.gnome.org/git/nautilus master; git clone master 3.8 etc
<RAOF> Right, that'll work.
<robert_ancell> time to relayout my git trees
<RAOF> You just get to manually update your remote clone whenever you want to pull into any of its derived clones.
<RAOF> Because in that example, âgit pullâ in the 3.8 branch will pull only from nautilus/master, not from git.gnome.org.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, ah, so I have to create the remote branches in master, then clone those instead?
<RAOF> robert_ancell: âgit cloneâ will clone all the remote branches anyway; you always get all the branch data in a git clone.
<robert_ancell> RAOF, right, but I had to go an do a git checkout -t -b ... in master/ so I could see these branches in 3.8/
<RAOF> Oh, yeah.
<RAOF> All the data's there, but master/ would lack the actual branch pointer until you did that.
<robert_ancell> I guess from 3.8/'s point of view a remote branch is a local branch in master/
<RAOF> Right.
<robert_ancell> what an amazing user experience :)
<RAOF> Git only supports the git way âº
<seb128> robert_ancell, can you rebase the fix for bug #861171 on trunk and get charles to review it?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 861171 in OEM Priority Project precise "Shutdown from greeter does nothing when multiple accounts open" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861171
<robert_ancell> sure
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> Sweetshark, just assigned you https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1231799
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1231799 in libreoffice (Ubuntu Saucy) "Libreoffice quicklist doesn't work says "label empty"" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> would be nice if you could have a look
<robert_ancell> seb128, oh, that code has changed quite a bit :)
<seb128> robert_ancell, yeah, nautilus got mccanned
<robert_ancell> seb128, no, the indicator-session changes
<seb128> oh, I though you were speaking about nautilus :-)
<seb128> robert_ancell, yes, and we stopped using the indicator dialog in the session (using unity)
<seb128> but that's still useful for the greeter
<seb128> I'm getting a dialog in the session when trying to shutdown with other users logged in, iirc
<robert_ancell> seb128, well, it was using the dialog in indicator-session, but that no longer exists!
<seb128> (I think I saw that)
<seb128> I wonder if gnome-session got fixed to do that as well
<seb128> robert_ancell, hum, are you sure? what is displayed in unity-greeter?
 * robert_ancell looks harder
<robert_ancell> seb128, hah, it uses Zenity now
<robert_ancell> We should just implement the dialogs in u-g-
<Sweetshark> seb128: hohum ...
<Sweetshark> seb128: I just had a look at the .desktop files -- there seems to be no difference compared to raring ... maybe a regression in dash/unity?
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep. the version in raring and saucy are exact the same ...
<seb128> bregma, Trevinho, did anything changed on the unity side that would make the libreoffice launcher list being buggy?
<seb128> Sweetshark, the .desktop is weird, I think that uses the old syntax
<seb128> Sweetshark, they changed for the new fdo action spec some cycles ago iirc (though the old syntax should be support for compat)
<Sweetshark> seb128: urgh.
<seb128> Sweetshark, the other .desktops use
<seb128> [Desktop Action <name>]
<seb128> Name=
<seb128> Exec=
<seb128> seems to be what is used by nautilus, chromium, etc
<seb128> with an "Actions=<name>;" as well in the main section
<Sweetshark> seb128: yep, found it with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UnityLaunchersAndDesktopFiles
<seb128> robert_ancell, I saw "Light Display Manager" in my unity-greeter users' list a bunch of times recently, did you see that?
<robert_ancell> seb128, no
<robert_ancell> seb128, is accounts service showing it?
<seb128> robert_ancell, what info would be useful while in this state?
<robert_ancell> seb128, see if accounts service is reporting it - if so, it an a-s problem
<seb128> I doubt it is
<seb128> let me check
<seb128> but it's not happening in my session nor in the greeter 3 minutes ago
<robert_ancell> also check what logind is reporting. It might have broken when when switched from CK
<seb128> well, what is weird is that it does it 1 on 10 tries
<seb128> e.g it's not consistent
<seb128> I wonder if it fails to get infos from a-s and fallback to some other method
<Trevinho> seb128 Sweetshark: I noticed that in recent releases of LO there's a StartupWMClass flag
<Trevinho> that's generally correct for normal files, but with LO it seems to cause troubles
<Trevinho> I didn't see this in Saucy, though
<Trevinho> Only in precise (submitted a  workaround for it)
<seb128> Trevinho, well, in that case the issue is the right-click-list in the launcher
 * robert_ancell -> lunch
<robert_ancell> seb128, possible, look in the x-0-greeter.log to see if there's anything being reported there
<Trevinho> seb128: ah... let me see
<Trevinho> seb128: mh, I have an "empty label" menu item on it
<Trevinho> seb128: it's not something related to unity though, in case it's libindicator
<Sweetshark> seb128: I _really_ shouldnt edit bug at this time of the day (night rather) -- does more damage than it does good.
<seb128> robert_ancell, http://ubuntuone.com/3dEWj5J4VboRveJBvL772e
<Sweetshark> :/
 * Sweetshark goes to bed. night guys ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, yeah, time to sleep for you!
<seb128> night
<seb128> Trevinho, ok, so something for ted I guess
<seb128> or charles/larsu
<Trevinho> yes... well, I probably could do something as well, but if they do it I'm ok with that :)
<seb128> Trevinho, if you want to have a look, please do ;-)
<Trevinho> quite busy now... :/ I see if tomorrow i can
<Trevinho> or just ping the indicator people
<seb128> Trevinho, thanks
<Trevinho> seb128: I think we've high prio troubles with indicator-appmenu or other indicators that make often u-p-s to become crazy.. are these issues already addressed by them?
<seb128> Trevinho, no, how crazy?
<seb128> Trevinho, there is a bug where u-p-s stop getting sync/status updates from indicators which is known
<seb128> e.g the sound indicator icon stops changing
<Trevinho> seb128: sometimes it gets cpu 100%, and menus takes age to open
<seb128> the bus side is fine, seems it's the compiz/ups side which is buggy
<seb128> weird
<seb128> never saw that one mention (nor ran into it)
<Trevinho> seb128: there are some very popoular bugs around, I can grab the numbers
<Trevinho> seb128: mh navigating over menus is often impossible... the menu can take seconds while the screen is grabbed
<Trevinho> and this leads to unsuable state untill you don't kill u-p-s
<Trevinho> seb128: a part that Alt+F or Alt pressure is broken with GTK apps
<Trevinho> I don't know if it's due to the fact that I've long uptimes, but after few hours it happens
<seb128> Trevinho, well, few hours is not a long uptime
<Trevinho> seb128: no, I can't give a number for that... but we've some bugs indeed and imho we should find a fix asap
<seb128> Trevinho, right, easier if we can trigger them easily to test/debug
<Trevinho> yes, sure... unfortunately things like this are probably races or hard to reproduce
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-17
<RandLAT> Planning on using Ubuntu 13.10 within VirtualBox on a Mac. Which ISO should I get? 32-bit Intel, 64-bit PC AMD or the 64-bit Mac AMD? Thanks in advance.
<duflu> RandLAT: Within a virtual machine, PC. And if you can, always amd64
<RandLAT> duflu: Thanks
<sil2100> Morning everyone
<sil2100> hm... after doing a dist-upgrade yesterday, I cannot get my machine to boot properly, the graphical shell doesn't want to start
<sil2100> I'll try something after rebooting, brb
<sil2100> Shit...
<sil2100> didrocks: how can I fetch the list of recently updated packages on my system? dpkg.log is a bit bloated
<didrocks> sil2100: /var/log/apt/history.log
<didrocks> that should be easier to parse :)
<didrocks> (doesn't show of course what you installed with dpkg
<sil2100> Thanks!
<didrocks> yw ;)
<didrocks> good luck!
<Laney> hey
<Laney> sil2100: seb had that yesterday
<Laney> He had unity8 installed and it was due to that
<sil2100> Oh shit
<sil2100> Laney: thanks, will check my packages!
<sil2100> If that's it, then you saved my day
<Laney> lool: did you upload a fix for that?
<sil2100> brb
<Laney> (didn't actually follow what the problem was)
<Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/7.83+13.10.20131016.2-0ubuntu1
<Laney> seems so
<Laney> dist-upgrade should fix it
<sil2100> Sadly, didn't help here
<sil2100> I don't see lightdm running, but start lightdm says it's already up - and restarting/stopping lightdm just causes the command to wait indefinitely
<sil2100> Diving in for more debugging - running lightdm manually without upstart just works
<Laney> try 'sudo initctl list' when it's broken
<sil2100> Still nothing
<sil2100> initctl list shows lightdm in the state: start/starting, but the upstart script is not even being started
<sil2100> geh...
<sil2100> It seems something happens when upstart tries to launch lightdm, something is stalled and not moving forward
<sil2100> Great timing for this to happen, shouldn't have upgraded those zillions of packages
<lool> Laney: boot issue with unity8?  yes
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> don't know what sil2100's problem is yet
<Laney> sil2100: got anywhere?
<Laney> could you pastebin sudo initctl list?
<lool> sil2100: do you have anything in /etc/init/boot-hooks/?
<lool> sil2100: what's your unity8 version?
<lool> Ok, will check it out later, got to go
<sil2100> It's on my desktop, so it's not about unity8 - still trying to get my lightdm back, after disabling it from boot-time and trying to run manually by start lightdm it just hang the 'start lightdm' process without doing anything, while launching lightdm manually without initctl works
<sil2100> I don't have unity8 installed even right now
<sil2100> But wait
<sil2100> Why after uninstalling unity8 I still have its boot-hook in /etc/init ?
<Laney> you didn't purge it?
<sil2100> No, and this was my mistake, I really should add --purge by default whenever I do an apt remove
<sil2100> Geh
<sil2100> Laney, lool: thanks guys, I think this should be it
<sil2100> Wasn't really aware of the still-existing boot-hook for unity8, didn't even check if there's anything like that there
<sil2100> brb
<sil2100> \o/
<Laney> haha
<Laney> the non-updating greeter background in settings was just a missing Q_EMIT
<Laney> /o\
<sil2100> Laney: uh?
<sil2100> Laney: ah, I see you fixed everything in the merge proposal of yours
<Laney> I think so
<Laney> if you have some changes I can merge them in
<sil2100> Laney: I'll remove my branch then and review your fixes
<Laney> or do another MP or whatever
<Laney> I think it worked on desktop because ...
<Laney> nautilus syncs the background to accountsservice
<sil2100> QDBusReply<QDBusVariant> answer = userInterface.call <- hah, this for getting the property? Why wasn't it working with the .property() thing?
<Laney> which will make the Changed signal happen
<Laney> so the UI gets it that way
<Laney> but if you set it yourself then you don't get the signal back
<Laney> that's why it worked if you set it in the terminal too
<sil2100> Crazy stuff
<sil2100> Makes sense now, let me test and review the change
<Laney> .property isn't what I thought
<Laney> it refers to QObject properties, not D-Bus ones
<sil2100> But actually QDBusInterface from qt4.7 said that you can use the .property() method to access the DBus properties IIRC correctly - I didn't see the same written in the qt5 docs, but in the old ones it was like that
<sil2100> Quoting the old 4.8 docs: "Signals are connected to by using the normal QObject::connect() function. Finally, properties are accessed using the QObject::property() and QObject::setProperty() functions."
<sil2100> So I thought this didn't change throughout versions
<Laney> oh it does say that actually
<Laney> INTERESTING
<sil2100> Oh, I actually see the same thing in qt5 as well!
<Laney> you could try putting it back
<Laney> if that works then it's better
<sil2100> hm, but it didn't work before, which is why I actually started looking into that
<sil2100> It was always returning and empty string
<Laney> might have been getting messed up with the missing emission
<Laney> not sure
<Laney> this definitely does work :P
<sil2100> Could be, let me try that then
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> Test-building and uploading to the device in a moment
<xnox> Overlay scrollbars don't work in GTK apps, if launched under pkexec
<xnox> can that be somehow be fixed?!
<om26er> xnox, as cimi maybe, he wrote it
<Laney> xnox: you need to have GTK_MODULES set
<xnox> Laney: bug pkexec strips environment variables =/
<Laney> ho hum!
<xnox> Laney: do we need to modify pkexec to preserve that var?
<Laney> sounds weird
<Laney> it should probably be modified more generally
<Laney> or maybe in allow_gui?
<Laney> talk to upstraem
<mhr3_> xnox, how can i get a log of all upstart events for the user session?
<mhr3_> cookbook mentions --verbose and --debug, but that's for the system upstart afaict
<xnox> mhr3_: does work for session init as well.
<xnox> mhr3_: but you can use upstart-monitor to log the current ones.
<mhr3_> xnox, i need a pointer to where is the session init run :)
<Laney> mhr3_: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99upstart
<mhr3_> thx
<mhr3_> Laney, phone as well?
<Laney> no
<Laney> don't know about that
<Laney> I assume that #ubuntu-desktop questions are about desktop :P
<mhr3_> but, but... it's right above ubuntu-touch for me :P
<ogra_> you seriously need more channels then
 * ogra_ has about ten between desktop and touch 
<mhr3_> heh
<xnox> mhr3_: yes, phone as well.
<xnox> mhr3_: hm, maybe not actually
<xnox> mhr3_: grep root filesystem? =)
<czajkowski> ogra_: that's cause you're so popular!
<ogra_> lol
<ogra_> czajkowski, not partying for the release today ?
<ogra_> i dont see you in #u-r-p
<czajkowski> may pop up to london and go to the event
<czajkowski> see how the trains are going today
<ogra_> (in fact that channel is pretty dead this time :/ )
<czajkowski> ogra_: I need to get work done that channel gets way too noisy!
<ogra_> it doesnt
<ogra_> not even 100 ppl
<ogra_> relatively quiet
<Laney> told you, get the Holy Holbach to do some evangelising
<czajkowski> roflol
<xnox> 783308
<Laney> you what
<desrt> seb128: hey!!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> desrt, hey, how is Canada this morning?
<desrt> great!
<desrt> and judy
<desrt> is a....
<desrt> very nice girl
 * desrt listens to belle and sebastian
<Laney> you guys are weird
<Laney> give me a bagel update, STAT
<Laney> also: /me listens to b&s
<desrt> Laney: we got the good bagels this morning
<desrt> they were the worst ones we've had so far (of the good ones) but still a world better than the ones we had yesterday
<Laney> I came across this on planet yesterday http://blogs.gnome.org/gnomg/files/2013/10/bagelMontrealSummit.jpg
<Laney> can't get away from the damn things
<desrt> ah.  karen took that picture.
<Laney> ya, her post
<desrt> so.... we're planning on putting in a sound system at the montreal office
<desrt> i wonder if more people would come then
<seb128> Laney, hey, we get some extra bagels this morning, if you want to stop at the MontrÃ©al office today... :-)
<Laney> I'll drop by on my way to Oakland next week
<Laney> put them out by the back step
<seb128> ;-)
 * mdeslaur goes to kitchen to get bagel
<seb128> mdeslaur, hey, how far are you from the office?
<mdeslaur> seb128: 3 hour drive
<seb128> mdeslaur, not seeing you there today then I guess ;-)
<mdeslaur> nope :)
<didrocks> salut seb128, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> hey desrt ;)
<seb128> didrocks, lut, ouais, et toi ? congrats on the gold image 100 ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: heh, thanks! we even had the early alert for fun :p
 * didrocks got 3 free hours of stress
<seb128> didrocks, I got that yesterday when my laptop stopped booting :p
<didrocks> seb128: congrats on the destkop! happy to have seen latest settings fixes
<didrocks> ahah ;)
 * seb128 shakes fist at unity8
<seb128> didrocks, thanks ;-)
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, but the update screwed the phone :)
<seb128> didrocks, fun to debug, I'm glad stgraber came to the office to help me
 * didrocks thinks AP tests were not run :p
<seb128> half of the upstart jobs were waiting to start
<seb128> cascade of events fun
<didrocks> fun state ;)
<didrocks> seb128: don't eat too much bagels, we'll have a lot of food in Oakland :)
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, "good luck with that", desrt has a difficult time filtering the list of food places in Toronto for next week
<seb128> it's going to be 3 weeks of "food porn" as larsu would say :p
<didrocks> seb128: what are you doing working then? you should be already at the gym :)
<seb128> yeah, that's a good point
<didrocks> food/gym seems to be the only way to survive :)
<larsu> didrocks: hi!
<didrocks> oh I know, desrt wants to kill seb128 with too many food so that we get gnome 3.12 next cycle :)
<didrocks> hey larsu! how are you?
<larsu> people are overexaggerating how much I give them to eat
<didrocks> heh ;)
<desrt> didrocks: i don't need to kill him.  only drug him.
<larsu> didrocks: awesome, thanks. And you?
<larsu> freshly married I hear. Congrats ;)
 * desrt has been slipping mind control agents into his bagels
<didrocks> desrt: right, beers as well can workâ¦ it's cheaper :)
<seb128> didrocks, those people don't want to drink beer with me
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, was really busy between the wedding and the release, but really well! thanks :)
<desrt> seb128: you have an alcohol problem
<didrocks> seb128: really? Oh poor of you :)
<didrocks> ahah
<seb128> see, he's doing it again!
<didrocks> desrt: yeah, at the wedding, people told me "seb is drinking is a lot" :)
<desrt> his problem: his friends don't want to drink as much as he does
<larsu> I like how 75% of the participants of this chat are in the same room, at the same table
<desrt> attente: hey.  help us bring it to 80%!
<didrocks> larsu: yeah, but public shaming is priceless I guess :)
<larsu> ha
<desrt> didrocks: public humilation is the first step on the 12 step programme, isn't it?
<attente> hello
<didrocks> desrt: don't spoil seb128 with the number of steps ;)
<desrt> larsu: http://memegenerator.net/instance/42247695
<seb128> stgraber, hey, just as a fyi, we have fresh bagels at the office if you want some ;-)
<sil2100> Laney: the merge looking good now! Just wanted to discuss the 'source:' of the image, which I guess you might be right about but want to make sure
<sil2100> Laney: since I see testHomeImage has the source: background.pictureUri anyway defined, and I have been wondering if without that it will be actually, on start, updating the greeter image to fit the one that has been selected in the past
<sil2100> Laney: I didn't see if that works since when I was reviewing I was looking at the version when using .property(), which as I mentioned does not work
<mterry> seb128, heyo!  I tested setting the greeter wallpaper to a /usr/share/backgrounds path.  It worked for me on the commandline...
<sil2100> mterry: hi! What do you mean? We have a branch for ubuntu-system-settings for fixing greeter-background changing
<seb128> mterry, hey! my bug got dupped from 1227783
<mterry> sil2100, seb128 was manually testing changing the greeter the other day and found an odd bug
<seb128> mterry, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1238763/comments/2
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1227783 in ubuntu-ui-toolkit (Ubuntu Saucy) "duplicate for #1238763 Black backround image -CrossFadeImage does not set the sourceSize for the images" [Critical,In progress]
<mterry> sil2100, not one that prevented using it in system-settings
<mterry> seb128, ah.
<mterry> seb128, so it was a size-of-image difference, not path difference?
<sil2100> mterry: ah, sorry, I shouldn't have butted in without knowing context! Ignore me please ;)
<seb128> mterry, seems so
<mterry> sil2100, no worries  :)
<Laney> sil2100: It's supposed to go <gsettings/as> â <test image> â <visible image>
<Laney> oh hey, a saucy
<Laney> well done desktop team ;-)
<mterry> yay!
<seb128> Laney, desktop team \o/
<sil2100> Laney: and that happens on startup, yes?
<sil2100> yay indeed \o/
<sil2100> Finally someone mentioned 'desktop'! \o/
<Laney> sure, via the binding
<Laney> did you notice anything being actually broken, or just being cautious?
<sil2100> Laney: just being cautious, no worries
<Laney> okay
<sil2100> Ok, last glance and let me approve!
<sil2100> Laney, seb128: btw. how is it with u-s-s? For instance all the v2 work, do we do it in a separate trunk branch for T and leaving the current state of u-s-s for saucy?
<sil2100> Laney, seb128: or just continue developing in one trunk, with the new features also targetted for saucy still?
<seb128> sil2100, I would say that we keep working in trunk
<seb128> e.g rolling mode
<seb128> saucy is not going to be supported on the phone
<seb128> we are just going to roll over T
<sil2100> Sounds like a plan
<sil2100> Thanks!
<seb128> yw
<seb128> Laney, ^ do you agree with that?
<stgraber> seb128: I may drop by once I'm done with my post-release stuff (well, mostly pushing the announcement for Edubuntu)
<seb128> stgraber, great
<seb128> stgraber, we should make sure to have release beers tonight or something
<Laney> sorry, Rosie just came back from an interview, was discussing how that went
<Laney> let me see
<Laney> oh yeah, I don't think we'll be SRUing anything
<Laney> so just trunk is ok
<Laney> hopefully this cycle we can do a more normal release though towards the end, so might have a stable branch then
<seb128> great
<Laney> but we'll see
<seb128> Laney, job interview? how did that go?
<Laney> she thinks quite alright
<Laney> this was the second one for that job
<Laney> will hear back next week
<seb128> nice
<Laney> it's something to do with geographic data
<Laney> apparently they asked questions about relational databases
<desrt> 10:07 < seb128> stgraber, we should make sure to have release beers tonight or something
<desrt> seb suggesting alcohol consumption?  this is surprising.
<Laney> release ice cream doesn't have the same ring to it :P
<seb128> BEER, did somebody said beer?
<ogra_> *plop*
<seb128> see, ogra_ is reacting to the idea as well
<ogra_> :)
<seb128> it's a german thing, larsu would tell you
 * larsu peeks in
<larsu> it's after 4 in Germany
<ogra_> yeah
<desrt> seb128 has gone to the kitchen to look for beer
<desrt> ...at 10:20am
<Laney> seb128: btw have you noticed a problem on the update panel where you don't get the revision number?
<Laney> so I just get "Ubuntu 13.10 (r)"
<stgraber> seb128: release beer sounds good (though maybe not just yet ;))
<Laney> ogra_: how many people did you get in the channel in the end? :-)
<ogra_> Laney, 120 or so
<Laney> hmm
<ogra_> we never were below 200 in the past
<ogra_> peak was ~600 one release iirc
<Laney> comfortable middle age
<desrt> Laney: can we get https://fedorahosted.org/gcc-python-plugin/ packaged?
 * Laney dons a cardigan
<Laney> desrt: probably, do you have something that uses it?
<desrt> Laney: i'd ask seb, but he's already three sheets to the wind
<desrt> Laney: ya.  i'm writing a gvariant static analysis tool
<Laney> you might want doko or someone gcc-ish
<Laney> see if he bites
<Laney> desrt:
<Laney> 17/10 15:28:21 <Laney> paultag: is #694881 still alive?
<Laney> 17/10 15:28:49 <paultag> Laney: yeah, I'm blocked waiting for a change to the upstream code
<Laney> 17/10 15:29:03 <paultag> Laney: there's a big change, he's getting some stuff in GCC, which is blocking a release, since it's using a new API
<Laney> 17/10 15:29:13 <Laney> Alright
<Laney> 17/10 15:29:14 <paultag> Laney: I should likely comment on that, but I'm still interested and working on it
<Laney> 17/10 15:29:18 <Laney> Yeah, please do
<Laney> 17/10 15:29:26 <Laney> desrt just pinged me about getting it packaged then I found your ITP
<Laney> 17/10 15:29:30 <paultag> ack
<desrt> Laney: ya. i found that too.
<desrt> seemed stalled
<desrt> glad i asked you.  thanks :)
<seb128> Laney, no, didn't see that one ... weird, I made the code conditional (shouldn't display the "(r...)" part of the string if we have no version)
<seb128> Laney, is that on r100/n4? (wfm here)
<didrocks> desrt: did seb128 pushed gnome 3.11.-1 yet? ;)
<Laney> was going <something> â 100
<desrt> didrocks: he's not that far gone yet
<didrocks> working on it I hope? :)
<desrt> btw
<desrt> our montreal office is beautiful
<desrt> we should have a sprint here soon
<Laney> we're putting all of GNOME under CI and daily releases
<didrocks> desrt: really? I was quite disappointed by the Boston office, we should have gone to Montreal
<didrocks> in addition, they speak a descent language there
<didrocks> Laney: \o/
<desrt> didrocks: english?  yes, indeed.  but with a funny accent.
<didrocks> :p
<seb128> didrocks, yeah, MontrÃ©al office is great, a bit London style (but empty)
<didrocks> interesting, yeah, we should have sprint there!
<seb128> didrocks, with nice view on the hill on one side of the building and on the city on the other side
<didrocks> I guess in summer, in winterâ¦ too cold :)
<didrocks> seb128: oh nice :)
<desrt> maybe sprint
<desrt> *spring
<seb128> city is nice as well, office is in the city
<desrt> spring sprint!
<didrocks> desrt: a spring sprint?
<Laney> mmm
<didrocks> too slowâ¦
<Laney> that'd be good
<didrocks> :)
<seb128> not like Lexington which is middle of nowhere (from what I've been told)
<didrocks> seb128: indeed ;)
<popey> tkamppeter: is openprinting.org ever coming back?
<tkamppeter> popey, it will take some days, the server will get replaced.
<popey> tkamppeter: ah okay. Someone on my LUG mailing list was asking.
<chrisccoulson> happy release day!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, happy release day to you as well!
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, not too bad thanks. although, i caught my daughters cold
<chrisccoulson> how are you?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good thanks, enjoying the MontrÃ©al office
<chrisccoulson> nice! :)
<chrisccoulson> i'd like to go there ;)
<mdeslaur> seb128: make sure you go to schwartz's while you're there
<seb128> mdeslaur, why people keep saying that
<desrt> mdeslaur: already done :)
<desrt> we went there the first night
<mdeslaur> was it not good?
<desrt> it was glorious, of course
<mdeslaur> +1
<seb128> mdeslaur, it was great, but lot of meat at the same time
<mdeslaur> seb128: pfff
<desrt> seb128: ....
<desrt> THAT'S THE POINT.
<attente> my sandwich came cold
<seb128> alright, it was great, but it feels like we eat a pig each
<seb128> poor animals
<mdeslaur> seb128: not enough organs to your liking? :P
<desrt> attente is just upset that we didn't like his bagels -- so he's talking bad about the things that we like
<mdeslaur> haha
<Sweetshark> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseNotes <- I just sqeezed myself in there, seems Desktop missed out on that quite a bit in general?
<seb128> Sweetshark, indeed, nobody pinged us and I was travelling/forgot about it
<seb128> Sweetshark, thanks for filling it
<didrocks> ah, here we go: http://www.mambochimbo.com/2013/10/to-do-top-things-to-do-after-installing.html
 * didrocks was anxious to not see a post like that yet :)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, lots of meat? now you're making me really jealous
<seb128> didrocks, haha
<didrocks> :)
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, we should have a sprint in montreal
<didrocks> chrisccoulson: maybe he was laughing at your remark, but knowing how drunk he isâ¦ :)
<chrisccoulson> lol
<seb128> didrocks, chrisccoulson: http://www.roadfood.com/photos/7626.jpg
 * chrisccoulson drools
<didrocks> waow
<chrisccoulson> that's just how i like my sandwich
<chrisccoulson> well, perhaps with less bread
<didrocks> this looks so healthy :)
<seb128> hehe
<mdeslaur> argh, now I have to go out for lunch
<stgraber> mdeslaur: I tend to prefer Dunn's, less waiting time and still pretty good :) (Schwartz's is much closer to my place though and I know when to go to avoid the crowd nowadays ;))
<mdeslaur> yeah, dunn's is good too
<mdeslaur> stgraber: oh, hrm, I didn't know you moved to mtl
<stgraber> mdeslaur: yeah, I did back in May. Now at the corner of Sherbrooke and St-Laurent so not too far from the office (but a bit too downtown for me, will be moving somewhere else next year)
<mdeslaur> cool
<seb128> sil2100, bregma: hey, do we have an unity 5 SRU planned at some point for precise?
<mlankhorst> yes
<mlankhorst> at least oh god i hope so
<seb128> sil2100, bregma: having https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1040660 backported there would be nice, I think it should fix https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/dbd360e8dd4d719c768b3bac5b7db4c967eb8d61
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1040660 in Unity "unity-panel-service crashed with SIGSEGV in panel_indicator_entry_accessible_get_n_children() from append_cache_item() from g_hash_table_foreach()" [High,Triaged]
<seb128> ups
<seb128> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/revision/2775
<seb128> rather
 * didrocks is going out for exercising
<didrocks> while seb128 is drinking and eating :)
<seb128> didrocks, great
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, hey, did you see what I was just asking bregma/sil2100 before?
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Sorry, I think I missed it.
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Could you repeat what you were asking them?
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, having http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/revision/2775 backported there would be nice, I think it should fix https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/dbd360e8dd4d719c768b3bac5b7db4c967eb8d61
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, "there" being precise/unity5
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Sure, I can work on the backport and then we can SRU it.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, that would be great, thanks
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: np!
<seb128> Laney, we are debugging the buggy SRU with larsu, it's obvious to trigger, it segfault every time you close g-c-c with that panel open
<Laney> ah
<Laney> I had the old one in my VM. :(
<seb128> Laney, it's a obvious bug (extra &priv-> instead of priv->)
<seb128> Laney, I'm testing with just dpkg -i the precise version on my saucy btw
<Laney> wee
<Laney> yeah, I got it to crash
<Laney> are you going to do the fix?
<seb128> Laney, yes, larsu is testing a fix already
<Laney> ok
<seb128> Laney, g_hash_table_destroy (&priv...
<seb128> Laney, dropping the &
<Laney> I see it
<Laney> incorrect pattern following when he backported the patch
<seb128> r
<seb128> right
<Laney> upstream used g_clear_pointer but that's >= 2.34
<seb128> hum, annoying to build on saucy, libgnome-desktop etc not matching
<seb128> Laney, do you have a precise build env?
<Laney> yes
<larsu> http://paste.debian.net/58913/
<seb128> Laney, ^ can you test it?
<Laney> sure why not
<Laney> is there a bug for this?
<larsu> I don't think so
<Laney> ok
<Laney> nearly built
<Laney> oh god stop optimising PNGs
<Laney> larsu: seb128: Yeah, didn't crash
<Laney> shall I upload?
<seb128> Laney, yes please
<Laney> okey doke
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> hrm, I guess we ought to have a bug for it really
<Laney> let me file one quickly
<seb128> Laney, I would be surprised if we didn't have one
<seb128> Laney, https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234392
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1234392 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/gnome-control-center:11:__GI___libc_free:standard_free:g_free:g_hash_table_resize:g_hash_table_destroy" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> wow
<Laney> I would never have found that
<Laney> guess it was linked from euc
<seb128> yes
<Laney> done
<seb128> Laney, thanks!
<Laney> np
<Laney> guess you want to ping people to get it fast tracked ;-)
<seb128> stgraber, can you get a precise SRU through for us?
<seb128> Laney, hehe, indeed :p
<seb128> ^
<seb128> Laney, why is that bug tagged lucid?
<Laney> don't ask me
<seb128> larsu, attente: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27552
<ubot2> Freedesktop bug 27552 in Lib/Xlib "Lots of processes crash in XCreatePixmap() with _XAllocID: Assertion `ret != inval_id' failed" [Normal,New]
<seb128> stgraber, thanks
<stgraber> np
<Laney> oh, she got the job
<seb128> Laney, congrats!
<Laney> that was a quick turnaround!
<seb128> well; congrats to her
<seb128> Laney, double reason to celebrate today ;-)
<Laney> yep, going out to have dinner tonight for celebrations
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
 * Laney quickly uploads glib* SRUs
<didrocks> Laney: dput && run
<didrocks> :)
<Laney> got to make the packages first :P
<didrocks> heh
<Laney> seb128: can you help me out with a test case for bug #1217230 please?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1217230 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "[Regression] Can't copy files from digital camera (Operation not supported by backend)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1217230
<Laney> okay, they're uploaded
<Laney> enjoy the release festivities :P
 * Laney waves
<jcastro> hey kenvandine
<jcastro> how can I run this pandora app you posted on my desktop?
 * didrocks waves good evening as well
<didrocks> enjoy the release everyone :)
<kenvandine> jcastro, https://github.com/kenvandine/Panpipe
<kenvandine> grab that and run qmlscene panpipe.qml
<jcastro> oh so I can just build a deb from that I see
<kenvandine> i think that will work
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> or even a click package
<jcastro> yeah but  I can't run clicks on my desktop safely without mir right?
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> click isn't supported on the desktop
<kenvandine> the biggest thing we need to fix for it on the phone is background playback
<kenvandine> like music-app does
<kenvandine> it sucks when the screen sleeps it stops playing
<jcastro> I'll follow along on my tablet
<jcastro> this is a great app
<seb128> Laney, can do (sorry, was at lunch), have a nice evening!
<tvoss> kenvandine, works for me @music playback
<tvoss> kenvandine, or better, used to work for me
<kenvandine> tvoss, panpipe does?
<kenvandine> tvoss, i think i just fixed it
<tvoss> kenvandine, hah :)
<kenvandine> well... s/fixed/added qtpowerd/ :)
<Sweetshark> heh, Ubuntu 13.10 released and on heise.de (biggest IT site in germany) the comments are only fighting over if its better to use 12.04LTS with LibreOffice 3.5.7, or 13.10 with LibreOffice 4.1.2 or 12.04LTS with the libreofffice ppa at LibreOffice 4.1.2 ...
<kenvandine> tvoss, ah... i don't see any powerd access in apparmor, so it'll only work unconfined
<tvoss> kenvandine, hah
<kenvandine> bummer... close to being useful :/
<kenvandine> jdstrand, any plans to add a policygroup for access to powerd?
<jdstrand> I did not have plans, but that can change. I just need more info on how it is all supposed to work
<jdstrand> maybe an email to ubuntu-phone/ubuntu-devel?
<jdstrand> or if it is simple, a bug against apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu
<kenvandine> tvoss, do you know if that was discussed?  i am guessing that is why music-app is using the unconfined template still
<tvoss> kenvandine, not entirely sure. Can you quickly summarize the state of things?
<kenvandine> trying to use QtPowerd.keepalive from panpipe based on playing state
<kenvandine> apparmor rejects access to com.canonical.powerd
<kenvandine> music-app does that, but it is using the unconfined template
<kenvandine> requestSysState: QDBusError("org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied", "An AppArmor policy prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient, 0 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.85
<kenvandine> " (uid=32011 pid=12237 comm="/usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/bin/qmlscene $@ p") interface="com.canonical.powerd" member="requestSysState" error name="(unset)" requested_reply="0" destination="com.canonical
<kenvandine> .powerd" (uid=0 pid=838 comm="/usr/bin/powerd ")")
<kenvandine> so i assume it would be adding a new policygroup for power
<sarnold> that's a funny-looking 'comm' entry..
<alex-abreu> Trevinho, ping
<alex-abreu> thomi, ping
<Trevinho> alex-abreu: pong
<alex-abreu> Trevinho, ah, just sent you a thomi an email
<Trevinho> alex-abreu: ah, fine... I'l check that soon
<robru> larsu, ping
<desrt> robru: pong
<robru> desrt, larsu's patch for bug #1238927 didn't make it into the saucy release. is it worth SRUing?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1238927 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "[Ubuntu Touch] Icons not displayed correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1238927
<robru> oh, i guess not if it's touch-only
<seb128> robru, it should be in the release...
<desrt> robru: seb says it should have made it in...
<robru> seb128, desrt: hmmm? according to http://people.canonical.com/~platform/cu2d/results it is in the PPA but not in saucy.
<seb128> robru, I didn't realize that you guys didn't land fixes for this one with other ones this week
<seb128> robru, so yeah, should be SRUed
 * larsu agrees
<robru> ok, I will apply the ritualistic make-up and begin the SRU dance.
<robru> seb128, confirmed with rmadison, saucy has 13.10.1+13.10.20131011-0ubuntu1
<seb128> robru, right
<seb128> xclaesse, hey, do you know if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telepathy-gabble/+bug/1223436 is a known issue/what debug info would be useful?
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1223436 in telepathy-gabble (Ubuntu Saucy) "telepathy-gabble 0.18 does not work with jabberd2" [Undecided,New]
<sil2100> seb128: as for the SRU, we have one planned all the time but there was no time!
<seb128> sil2100, hey, ok, ChrisTownsend is looking at backporting it, that's step 1 I guess
<seb128> sil2100, once it's in the vcs we can discuss SRUing the current vcs
<xclaesse> seb128, I didn't see that bug before, but I'm not reading all gabble bug reports :p
<xclaesse> seb128, maybe ask smcv and/or cassidy on #telepathy
<xclaesse> seb128, more debug would be useful, though
<seb128> xclaesse, ok, thanks
<seb128> xclaesse, how do you get debug? restarting the service with an env set?
<seb128> jdstrand, do you still get that telepathy-gabble not working with jabberd2 issue?
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: I have the MP ready, just waiting on the review.
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, great
<jdstrand> seb128: yes, I've had to resort to apt pinning:
<jdstrand> Package: telepathy-gabble
<jdstrand> Pin: version 0.16.6-1ubuntu1
<jdstrand> Pin-Priority: 1001
<seb128> jdstrand, ok, thanks
<xclaesse> seb128, empathy-debug should tell you everything
<robert_ancell> seb128, hey, can you still reproduce bug 861171? I can shutdown from any account (or just pressing the power button from anywhere). Wondering if my settings are messed up after too many upgrades
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 861171 in OEM Priority Project precise "Shutdown from greeter does nothing when multiple accounts open" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861171
 * seb128 shakes fist at robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> ?
<seb128> robert_ancell, doing shutdown from the indicator on the greeter shutdown my computer, including my user session, without asking for confirmationj
<robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, that's what I noticed
<mdeslaur> lol
<robert_ancell> actually, no mine still shows a dialog
<robert_ancell> but pressing the power button from inside my session shuts everything down without prompting
<seb128> robert_ancell, bug #1201180
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1201180 in kde-workspace (Ubuntu) "Pressing power button turns off the PC ignoring the presence of another session manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201180
<robert_ancell> that seems kind of important to fix..
<seb128> robert_ancell, well, it was supposed to be fixed
<seb128> robert_ancell, gnome-session should put an inhibitor
<seb128> robert_ancell, gsettings get org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.power button-power ?
<robert_ancell> 'interactive'
<seb128> I get the unity dialog when I press the button here
<robert_ancell> am I brave enough to try right now?
<robert_ancell> :)
<robert_ancell> I'll wait for the dist-upgrade to complete
<seb128> robert_ancell, DOIT
<seb128> yeah, might be smarter
<robert_ancell> ok, paused that. Fingers crossed
<robert_ancell> BOOM!
<seb128> robert_ancell, :-(
<robert_ancell> OK, so I need to hunt for inhibitors
<robert_ancell> seb128, I did get fancy dialogs working in u-g though
<seb128> robert_ancell, no, they don't, which is why I asked you to rebase the indicator patch
<robert_ancell> I mean I implemented them so they do now in lp:~robert-ancell/unity-greeter/end-session-dialog
<robert_ancell> which is the first step, then we need to make a dialog that says "Can't shutdown" or prompts for authentication
<seb128> wasn't was you did by then (which never got merged in)?
<seb128> robert_ancell, the inhibitor should come from gnome-session iirc, maybe do gnome-session --debug and look at the log
<seb128> robert_ancell, the comment from Laney on bug #1201180 has some hints on where to look
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1201180 in kde-workspace (Ubuntu) "Pressing power button turns off the PC ignoring the presence of another session manager" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201180
<robert_ancell> seb128, no, the indicator used to have a dialog in it and I modified that to provide the required information. But that code is all gone now and the dialog is in Unity Shell. So I put the same dialog in Unity Greeter
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I didn't know the indicator guys dropped their copy
<robert_ancell> yeah, that's why I stopped working on it :)
<robert_ancell> but first I need to be able to reproduce the problem to make the dialog changes
<seb128> charles, tedg, do you remember why/when the indicator-session session dialogs were dropped?
<seb128> well I guess "because unity provides that feature"
<charles> seb128: "because unity provides that feature"
<seb128> robert_ancell, so yeah, typical "let's look at this bug, which makes you find 3 other issues on the way, fix them to be able to debug the bug you wanted to look at first"
<seb128> robert_ancell, we have been hitting that with larsu a few times since yesterday
<seb128> charles, what about the greeter? :/
<robert_ancell> seb128, it fell back to zenity
<charles> seb128: however if the session indicator's not running, indicator-session fills in with zenity
<charles> robert_ancell: +1
<robert_ancell> we needed to implement the dialogs in the greeter anyway
<seb128> "zenity"
<seb128> srly
<charles> s/not running/not running in unity/
<seb128> DOH
<robert_ancell> charles, do you know what the story is with the org.gnome namespace for the dialog d-bus interface? (given it's on the Unity object)
<robert_ancell> does gnome shell have something similar?
<seb128> robert_ancell, Trevinho is the one who did that work
<seb128> Trevinho, ^
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: I've implemented that, since it was the only way to interact with gnome session
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: in theory we should fix it, to allow to work with other namespaces just implementing that interface
<robert_ancell> Trevinho, did the interface used to be on gnome-session?
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: if there's that interface implemented, then jgnome session uses it instead of its fallback dialogs
<Trevinho> robert_ancell: I really wanted to work upstream to make things better, but I had no time
<robert_ancell> ah
<Trevinho> and just implemented what we were mssing locally
<seb128> charles, oh, another fun bug created by dropping that code :/
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1167314
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1167314 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software-properties-gtk crashed with FileNotFoundError in _execute_child(): [Errno 2] Arquivo ou diretÃ³rio nÃ£o encontrado: '/usr/lib/indicator-session/gtk-logout-helper'" [Medium,Confirmed]
<seb128> I wish I had seen the mp for dropping those dialogs
<charles> hm. software-properties probably shouldn't've been relying on gtk-logout-helper
<seb128> charles, what should it use instead?
<charles> iirc gtk-logout-helper was conditionally compiled in previous releases
<seb128> charles, well, it was turned on in Ubuntu
<charles> looks like it's used in one place in software-properties:
<seb128> charles, and we can't drop stuff while they have users, it should go the other way around
<seb128> charles, port users, then drop the unused code
<charles> it's using "gtk-logout-helper --restart", it could use "gnome-session-quit --reboot"
<charles> seb128: I wasn't aware that indicator-session's dialogs had any other uses
<charles> users
<seb128> charles, yeah, not your fault, as said I wish I had seen that merge go through
<seb128> I can't even find it in the bzr log
<seb128> no match for dialog, gtk
<charles> also, software-properties doesn't mention indicator-session in its debian/control
<seb128> yeah, it's a buggy
<charles> seb128: iirc you were one of the people doing testing on that MP, I distinctly remember you were testing the dialogs in the greeter
<charles> this was one of the first indicators that got ported over to GMenu
<seb128> charles, well, when I tested we still had dialogs on the greeter
<seb128> charles, I just tested, doing "shutdown" from the indicator on the greeter takes my system down, including logged in users, without warning or question
<seb128> question/confirmation request
<seb128> by then when I tested I was getting a dialog to confirm
<seb128> iirc
<charles> seb128: I'm getting the zenity popup dialogs in the greeter right now. hm
<seb128> charles, I don't have zenity installed
<seb128> oh, in fact I does
<kenvandine> well crap... release day and I have no beer in the house!
<seb128> kenvandine, time for shopping!
 * kenvandine debates wine or a trip to the store for beer
<kenvandine> humm... i do have some scotch... this cycle is worthy of scotch :)
<charles> :)
<charles> more of a gin release, maybe
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: That backport is now merged into lp:unity/5.0.  Anything else I need to do?
<seb128> kenvandine, seems like a good choice ;-)
<seb128> ChrisTownsend, no, that's all for your side, thanks a lot!
<kenvandine> well good night folks!
<seb128> sil2100, ^ can we get an unity5 sru to precise? ;-)
<seb128> kenvandine, night!
<ChrisTownsend> seb128: Sure, no problem
<sil2100> seb128: let me check unity 5.0 trunk ;)
<charles> seb128: the zenity dialogs were working for you when you tested them on July 12, which is when I added them... I wonder what's changed between then and now s.t. they're not working in your greeter
<sil2100> seb128, ChrisTownsend: right, so now that we're done with saucy for now, let me take care of the SRU - I actually need the SRU team to validate one of the fixes that went in, if I get feedback on that we can do the release
<seb128> charles, I didn't even notice that was zenity by then
<charles> the popups WFM, though my snapshot is a few days old
<seb128> sil2100, great, thanks
<ChrisTownsend> sil2100: I think a new Nux is needed as well, but you probably already know that:)
<robru> desrt, larsu: can i get one of you to fill out the SRU template for https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-messages/+bug/1238927 ? I don't know the steps to reproduce or the regression potential so it's hard for me to fill that out. once that's done i'll upload to saucy-proposed
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1238927 in indicator-messages (Ubuntu) "[Ubuntu Touch] Icons not displayed correctly" [High,Fix committed]
<robert_ancell> seb128, what does 'dbus-send --system --dest=org.freedesktop.login1 --print-reply /org/freedesktop/login1 org.freedesktop.login1.Manager.ListInhibitors' say for you?
<larsu> robru: cyphermox just told me he wants to hold off on that one for a while
<robru> oh
<cyphermox> larsu: well, it would still be ideal to write the paperwork, description and all so it's ready when we need
<seb128> robert_ancell, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6253367/
<seb128> calling it a day, good evening everyone
<robert_ancell> seb128, bye
<robert_ancell> mterry, do you know if there is a particular reason the media-keys g-s-d plugin is disabled in the greeter?
<mterry> robert_ancell, I doubt for functionality reasons?  Could it launch apps?
<robert_ancell> mterry, ah, I guess it could launch apps.
<robert_ancell> We kind of want it to handle the power keys though
<mterry> robert_ancell, each of those should probably be commented with why
<robert_ancell> :)
<robert_ancell> mterry, what is unity8 going to use for this? Does it still use g-s-d?
<mterry> robert_ancell, I wonder if we can fine-tune that
<mterry> robert_ancell, no, it starts with g, of course we don't use it  :)
<mterry> robert_ancell, I believe some functionality is in shell now
<robert_ancell> mterry, so does the shell have the logind inhibitors / key handling?
<robert_ancell> mterry, it's kind of annoying - how much fixing do we do in u-g or just wait for u-g8
<mterry> robert_ancell, that's my memory.  Plus powerd is used, and it isn't on desktop I don't think yet
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-18
<pitti> Good morning
<jetsaredim> is there a documented way to get the ia32-libs functionality working on 13.10?
<jetsaredim> seems to have broken a bunch of packages
<RAOF> jetsaredim: Which packages in particular?
 * didrocks reboots
<Laney> morning
<didrocks> hey Laney! how was your party?
<Laney> we just went to the pub for dinner / beers
<Laney> but it was nice!
<Laney> how are you? looking forward to the weekend?
<mlankhorst> it's weekend for me :D
<didrocks> Laney: yeah, waiting for it, no party in my city though (for 2 cycles :( )
<Laney> aww
<didrocks> Laney: do you know where is the configuration used to make those kinds of mount? /var/lib/schroot/chroots/quantal-amd64 on /var/lib/schroot/union/underlay/quantal-amd64-7d9b8eb9-5432-41df-b0aa-62dbe9e76537 type none (rw,bind)
<didrocks> I think it's sbuild, but not sure where the config file is
<didrocks> (tried to grep -r in /etc, but no luck)
<Laney> hmm?
<Laney> What do you want to do?
<Laney> The schroot configuration files are in /etc/schroot/
<didrocks> hum grep -r quantal /etc/schroot/*
<didrocks> Laney: I want to remove my quantal chroots (and mounts)
<Laney> you have that even after a reboot?
<didrocks> not sure why they are mounted at boot as well
<didrocks> yeah
<Laney> O_O
<Laney> does schroot -l --all-sessions show anything?
<didrocks> W: No chroots are defined in â/etc/schroot/schroot.confâ or â/etc/schroot/chroot.dâ
<didrocks> session:quantal-amd64-7d9b8eb9-5432-41df-b0aa-62dbe9e76537
<didrocks> so, not sure where this definition is
<Laney> that's bizarre
<Laney> anyway, you should be able to end it with schroot -e --all-sessions
<didrocks> ok, the session ended
<didrocks> let me reboot to see
<didrocks> Laney: ok, at least, the session didn't autobindmount this time, thanks!
 * didrocks is looking at how to remove it cleanly now
 * Laney hugs attente 
<Laney> that layout change bug is noisy
<sil2100> didrocks: hi! Regarding updating of cu2d-config with the new saucy branches - what should we do with touch only projects? Should we enable them for daily release only in head? Or only in saucy and leave them disabled as 'to_transition' in head?
<sil2100> (probably the latter?)
<didrocks> sil2100: no, please put them in head
<didrocks> I guess that's what makes more sense
<didrocks> and disable in saucy
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, so daily_release: False?
<didrocks> sil2100: check with fghinther, maybe we need to direcly remove those so that there is no duplication in the upstream merger
<sil2100> didrocks: ok, he's currently on holiday right now I guess, and he only did a desktop-only stack right now, but maybe I'll catch him for a moment ;)
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, let's see :)
<sil2100> Hi! Does anyone know if indicator-network-prompt is touch only?
<didrocks> $ seeded-in-ubuntu indicator-network-prompt
<didrocks> indicator-network-prompt's binaries are not seeded.
<didrocks> sil2100: so, not in any ubuntu image, should be touch only ^
<sil2100> I didn't see it in the manifest as well, but been wondering if it's indeed used in touch as well, since the dependencies are not explicit
<Laney> erm
<Laney> seeded-in-ubuntu works for touch too
<didrocks> $ seeded-in-ubuntu indicator-network
<didrocks> indicator-network (from indicator-network) is seeded in:
<didrocks>   ubuntu-touch: daily-preinstalled
<didrocks> oh indeed :)
<didrocks> sil2100: so it's used, nowhere ;)
<sil2100> I wanted to catch Pete, but he's not around
<sil2100> didrocks: I guess I'll split it then ;p ?
<didrocks> sil2100: no, on the contrary, don't split it
<didrocks> no maintenance to do on it :)
<darkxst> Hey Laney
<sil2100> Ah, so treat it as touch only and let it stay in head?
<Laney> hey darkxst
<Laney> how goes?
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, the question is in fact "do we maintain it for older release?"
<darkxst> not great right now, car-less still
<Laney> oh no
<darkxst> yah, write-off, with complications
<Laney> you crashed it?
<Laney> :S!
<darkxst> nope, it was just parked outside my house
<sil2100> didrocks: it's only in saucy it seems!
<didrocks> sil2100: yeah, so will be T only in term of support :)
<didrocks> sil2100: but please, reach to Pete, not sure why it was developped if not installed
<czajkowski> don't you guys ever rest, take the day off after a release ;)
<darkxst> Laney, anyway, all that aside, do you think I would get PPU for ubuntu gnome package set if I applied?
<Laney> darkxst: yeah, almost certainly
<Laney> I saw jbicha left the team
<darkxst> yeh jbicha is gone
<didrocks> czajkowski: heh, I can see sun + week-end from my window, so week-end is near! ;)
<Laney> :/
<Laney> hope you guys find some more manpower
<Laney> anyway, yeah, get it in
<darkxst> ricotz is still there doing is own thing
<darkxst> which helps a lot with the pre-packaging
 * Laney nods
<Laney> I'd +1 you for ubuntu-desktop too, FWIW
<Laney> xnox: is ubuntu-installer@ ever used by humans?
<xnox> Laney: as in the ubuntu-installer@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list? well ABI bumps are mailed by human, and occasionally installer help / debugging is done there (by human posts)
<Laney> ok
<xnox> but it is low traffic.
<Laney> was going to suggest A lanBell forwards his ubuntu-desktop email there
<Laney> still, known bug ...
<darkxst> Laney, oh thanks! I suppose that would be handy, but means more seb
<Laney> haha
<xnox> Laney: I wish there was ATK api I could call into to suppress / add events. I re-arrange half of the screen widgets, or change them, and screen-reader doesn't say anything. Or vice-versa, "bling" is animated and is pointlessly announced.
<Laney> yeah I don't know anything about that stuff
<rickspencer3> hey desktoppers ...
<Laney> maybe you want to work on it with TheMuso
<rickspencer3> I'm hearing that this bug is a bit urgetnt ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-keyboard/+bug/1218322
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1218322 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Can't set keyboard layout change to alt+shift, ctrl+shift, etc." [High,In progress]
<Laney> rickspencer3: attente is actively working on that one
<rickspencer3> thanks Laney
<Laney> he should be on in a little bit if you need more info
 * Laney arghs at PNG optimisation
<Laney> This should be able to be parallelised
<didrocks> quite painful in some packages, isn't it? :)
<xnox> What is / was: "indicator-session-devices" ?
<xnox> tedg: larsu: please review/accept branches linked to bug 1241539, i'd like them merged to trunk. I know there is no t-series to release this stuff to.. but still.
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 1241539 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "ubiquity-dm is missing keyboard, input, sound, system indicators" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1241539
<tedg> xnox, K, trunk is 14.04.  Do you want them to hit 13.10 branch as well?
<tedg> xnox, Also, have you guys discussed switching ubiquity over to being an upstart session for 14.04?
<tedg> xnox, Is that on the table for work items?
<xnox> tedg: no point for 13.10, cause we are not re-releasing .isos, but i guess at least people will see the fix / indicators in the oem config stage....
<xnox> tedg: i think for 14.04 only.
<xnox> tedg: i think investing to make ubiquity upstart session, only if when we switch to mir by default on desktop and start requiring ubiquity to run in mir.
<tedg> xnox, I don't see how those are related?
 * tedg assumes that xnox knows Mir and Upstart do different things
<tedg> :-)
<xnox> tedg: at the moment ubiquity-dm: bypasses lightdm, bypasses X, session upstart, gnome-session.
<xnox> tedg: and I'd rather have same feature-parity, if ubiquity-dm becomes user-session and looses ability to spawn fallback X server and the like.
<xnox> tedg: thus if i make it user-session, without mir and engineer replacements around X technology, it's a waste of time, cause i'll have to redo it under Mir not so long after.
<tedg> xnox, My issue is that I want to move the indicators over to being Upstart jobs.  Would you consider running Upstart with no startup event, and then starting the ones you want?
<xnox> tedg: yeah, i'd be fine with that.
<xnox> tedg: ubiquity-dm already spawns it's own everything, so no reason it can't spawn a custom / small upstart to launch a couple of jobs. actually that might be unintrusive babysteps.
<tedg> xnox, Okay, sounds good
<tedg> mterry, Do you think that could work for unity-greeter as well?  ^
<mterry> tedg, potentially
<xnox> tedg: mterry: do note that even system-init has two distict startup events.
<xnox> we complete sub-vert boot and do $ init --start-up-event recovery to start in recovery mode with menu-selection.
<xnox> and once done we simply emit normal "startup" event to kick off / complete normal boot.
<xnox> similarly there is no reason why indicators can't all start on "indicators" event
<xnox> and then for normal login we have a dummy "emit indicators" upstart job.
<xnox> and in case of ubiquity/unity-greeter, spawn init --start-up-event indicators.
<tedg> All the indicators do start on an indicator event.
<tedg> It's emitted by Unity 7/8
<tedg> When they're ready to have indicators.
<xnox> ooh, nice.
<xnox> so i can start init, and emit indicators after panel is up.
<xnox> but i guess my panel.c just force loads them...
<tedg> Yeah, I think that makes sense.
<tedg> Then effectively all the indicators are "one PID" from the greeter/ubiquity's perspective.
<tedg> Means that we can easily reshuffle them without breaking.
<seb128> happy friday desktopers!
<Laney> someone please review my patch update in the g-c-c packaging branch
<Laney> happy friday seb128!
<seb128> Laney, hey, you yoo!
<seb128> Laney, looking to g-c-c
<larsu> xnox: sure
<seb128> Laney, that seems a weird way to do it
<Laney> what do you recommend?
<seb128> Laney, what we have been doing in other places is what 51_unity_options_in_display_panel.patch do
<seb128> +  schemas = g_settings_list_schemas ();
<seb128> +  while (*schemas != NULL)
<seb128> +    {
<seb128> +      if (g_strcmp0 (*schemas, UNITY2D_GSETTINGS_LAUNCHER) == 0)
<seb128> well, your way seems fine, it's just not what we are doing in other places
<Laney> is that better?
<Laney> I stole this idea from the 'gsettings' tool
<seb128> Laney, desrt says your way is about the best we can do
<seb128> Laney, so +1
<desrt> Laney: seb lies
<desrt> the best we can do is to have the panel in the indicator itself, as with datetime
<desrt> that is the correct thing to do
<desrt> since we diverge from gnome upstream on the panels anyway....
<Laney> completely fork it?
<desrt> that's what datetime did
<Laney> Don't know how much that has in common with the upstream panel
<Laney> this just adds one label/combo
<desrt> the other alternative is to have gsettings-ubuntu-schemas and depend on that
<desrt> that's why gnome does gsettings-desktop-schemas
<Laney> it'd be a bit annoying to do a whole fork for that
<desrt> well
<desrt> we keep talking about wanting to do u-c-c anyway
<Laney> yes, /that/ would be good
<Laney> because then you get easy merging with upstream
<seb128> Laney, desrt: well, that change is the easiest thing to do/right fix until we have a proper fork
<Laney> ya
<Laney> thanks for the review
<Laney> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/a070e0e0f342f3d445cf13bf28f08d2868be0ba3
<Laney> this seems noisy
<seb128> Laney, I talked to robru about that one yesterday
<Laney> yeah?
<seb128> Laney, he said that it happens when running friends from raring with pygobject from saucy
<seb128> Laney, it's likely it's happening during upgrades, pygobject gets upgraded first and during the time in between pygobject and friends are upgraded, the friend-dispatcher is started (its keeps going up and down)
<Laney> okay, then a Breaks should fix it
<Laney> or fixing the code in raring to work with both
<walters> seb128: precisely the sort of thing ostree fixes, btw
<seb128> walters, yeah...
<walters> (and unlike Image Based Upgrades, it has a sane story for how it interoperates with packages)
<seb128> rickspencer3, hey, I read the backlog and I saw you pinged about that keyboard/keybinding issue, do you have any specific on what bits are important?
<seb128> rickspencer3, (it's being actively worked but it mixes several issues and some of those are non trivial to fix, just trying to figure out if there is a workaround we could use that would it less of an issue for users until it's properly resolved)
<rickspencer3> seb128, I dunno, silbs mentioned that a lot of folks were pinging her about it
<rickspencer3> Laney said it was being handled, so that was good enough for me :)
<seb128> rickspencer3, can you get specifics about the ping/what is the main concern?
<seb128> rickspencer3, well, "being handled", attente has been spending the last few days on it (as you can see from the bug comments/ppa roundtrips)
<seb128> rickspencer3, so yeah, it's  actively worked, but we don't have a solution fixing all the problems yet
<Laney> hmm, the latest LC_stuff change is a bit buggy
<seb128> rickspencer3, though part of the issue is that users can't set the keybinding to some value (e.g l-shift+r-shift), I wonder how much of an issue that is
<seb128> rickspencer3, or if changing the default to e.g ctrl-alt and having that working would be good enough for most users
<seb128> Laney, in u-s-s?
<seb128> Laney, how so?
<Laney> hang on, trying to get the output
<Laney> don't distract Will though; I'll look at it (maybe on Monday) :-)
<seb128> Laney, right
<seb128> no hurry for u-s-s
<seb128> it's not like those changes would land on an image this week anyway
<Laney> indeed
<Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6258334/
<seb128> Laney, it's like the 2 calls were done using different locales
<seb128> Laney,
<seb128>  
<seb128> 162
<seb128>             act_user_set_language(user, qPrintable(languageCode.left(languageCode.indexOf('.'))));
<seb128>  
<seb128> 163
<seb128>             act_user_set_formats_locale(user, qPrintable(languageCode));
<seb128> shouldn't they both use "languageCode.left(languageCode.indexOf('.')"?
<Laney> Dunno
<Laney> I'm guessing it was deliberate
<seb128> attente, ^
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> the dbus api documentation says they should be the same
<seb128> Laney, he's doing the '.' stuff to filter the UTF-8 out
<Laney> seb128: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/saucy/accountsservice/saucy/view/head:/data/org.freedesktop.Accounts.User.xml#L153
<seb128> Laney, ok, does dropping the ".indexOf('.')" resolve the issue?
<Laney> let's see
<Laney> hmm
<seb128> sil2100, fginther: do we have mergers for 13.10 branches?
<seb128> sil2100, fginther: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/libindicator/always-create-widgets/+merge/191701 is sitting there with no CI nor merge happening
<sil2100> seb128: I doubt we have those yet - fginther is on holiday today, and the merge for updating cu2d-config for indicators is still awaiting review
<sil2100> Laney, seb128: I tested if the locales were changing with that branch attente prepared and they were, didn't check the api docs though
<sil2100> I was assuming those were deliberate as well
<Laney> Well, AS actually rejects it if you pass e.g. de_DE on its own
<Laney> so I don't really get what it set
<Laney> the property was actually set to de_BE.UTF-8
<Laney> needs more debugging
<seb128> Laney, k
<sil2100> Ok, so maybe I approved to hastily?
<seb128> sil2100, should I just manually SRU that libindicator fix then?
<Laney> it's still an improvement
<Laney> we can fix in followups
<seb128> cyphermox, ^ (the SRU question)
<seb128> cyphermox, hey btw
<seb128> Laney, yeah
<sil2100> seb128: I would guess if it's important, let's do that - since today we won't get CI and mergers prepared for sure
<sil2100> Since we need fginther to be around for that
<cyphermox> sil2100: what>? why?
<cyphermox> isn't that commit merged yet?
<sil2100> Laney, seb128: right, sorry about that - I think I probably tested such a case where all locales got set to the same thing
<sil2100> cyphermox: which one?
<seb128> sil2100, ok, let's do that
<seb128> tedg, ^ side effect of your early branching btw :/
<cyphermox> seb128: yeah, upload directly
<cyphermox> seb128: I don't think it's an issue with branching
<seb128> cyphermox, sil2100: thanks
<cyphermox> but I'll take a look at the config again to check what'sup
<seb128> cyphermox, well, it's an issue of creating stable branches without making them be under CI
<cyphermox> seb128: they should be under CI already
<seb128> cyphermox, sil2100 says it's a fginther thing
<sil2100> https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/cupstream2distro-config/apps_click_friends_hud_indicators_13.10/+merge/191788 <- this would have to be in, and fginther would have to set up the mergers/CI for those new branches
<sil2100> cyphermox: they can't be in CI if they're not in cu2d-config
<cyphermox> the config should be sufficient for the branch to be covered
<seb128> cyphermox, https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/libindicator/always-create-widgets/+merge/191701 didn't get CI review/comments nor merging though :/
<seb128> k
<sil2100> cyphermox: if cu2d-config doesn't have the /13.10 branches in it and fginther doesn't pull that in on the mergers side, there's no CI
<Laney> Is anyone on devicekit-devel?
<cyphermox> sil2100: I understand that but it should have been added as part of the procedure of branching, a few weeks ago
<seb128> Laney, pitti maybe?
<Laney> If so, please bounce me hadess' email
<sil2100> cyphermox: sadly it was not
<sil2100> cyphermox: me and fginther started doing that yesterday evening
<Laney> Removed signals:
<Laney> - changed (both UpClient and UpDevice), device-changed (connect to the
<Laney> "notify" signal for the properties that interest you instead)
<Laney> Changed
<Laney> ignore "Changed"
<cyphermox> sil2100: ping the ci team on #ubuntu-ci-eng, they can do it
<cyphermox> it shouldn't ever have to be only fginther
<seb128> Laney, is that going to create issues?
<Laney> It's going to create porting
<Laney> It now implements the proper PropertiesChanged signal which is great, but killing the old interface without any transition period is unfortunate IMO
<seb128> yeah :/
<Laney> (D-Bus and GLib API changes are pretty much the same)
<Laney> ok, noted to follow that up on monday too
<Laney> have a good weekend ;-)
<seb128> Laney, thanks, you too
<kenvandine> have a good weekend Laney!
<Laney> yeah, we have http://gamecity.org/about in town which I'll check out :D
 * Laney waves
<seb128> nice
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
<tedg> seb128, To be fair, I asked the CI folks before doing it.  They told me it wasn't a big deal, and I should start branching.
<seb128> tedg, sure, easy for them to tell, they don't have code to land
<bcurtiswx> why would I still be receiving empathy messages even though i've quit empathy ?
<bcurtiswx> how does one completely turn off empathy ?
<bcurtiswx> is that more of a #ubuntu question tho, i'll head over there
<bcurtiswx> hmm, i c.. it's directly integrated into the status set in messaging-menu. If you're not "offline" on there, you will still continue to receive messages
<bcurtiswx> i take my previous statement back, im offline and still receiving messages
<seb128> bcurtiswx, that seems buggy
<seb128> bcurtiswx, the fact that closing the empathy UI doesn't send you offline is a known/normal
<seb128> bcurtiswx, but setting the status offline should work
<bcurtiswx> seb128, OK thanks, i'll get a bug report done soon :)
<seb128> bcurtiswx, thanks
<bcurtiswx> should the hud-service be taking up 15% of my 8GB of RAM ?
<sarnold> bcurtiswx: discovering the amount of memory actually used is somewhat difficult. Or maybe, subtle. Check out the 'smem' tool, it tries to place blame on applications for memory usage in a different way that might be more instructive
<filosofixit> Hi! I just upgraded to 13.10 amn everything work great, but I got two network-manager icons in my systray. One had all the functionality and the other just the possibillity two turn the NIC's on/off... I tried uninstalling and reinstalling network-manager but now  I only got one icon but its not working at all... Anyone got a clue?
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-19
<bcurtiswx> sarnold, thanks, i'll try that
<jetsaredim> anyone familiar with how to resolve ia32-libs in 13.10?
<mdeslaur> jetsaredim: resolve? Ubuntu has been multiarch for a while now, nothing is supposed to use ia32-libs anymore
<jetsaredim> mdeslaur: ok - so if I'm on amd64 and i'm trying to use a deb that says it needs ia32-libs to function...
<mdeslaur> jetsaredim: then your deb is broken. It should simply require whatever i386 library...for example: libxyz:i386
<mdeslaur> the ia32-libs package is still there, for backwards compatibility, but it shouldn't be used anymore
<jetsaredim> its not coming up in apt-cache or apt-get install
<mdeslaur> jetsaredim: what deb is this?
<jetsaredim> its a deb for printer support for a brother printer
<mdeslaur> jetsaredim: what is not coming up in apt-cache or apt-get install?
<jetsaredim> ia32-libs
<mdeslaur> ah, it's been removed in saucy apparently
<mdeslaur> good
<mdeslaur> jetsaredim: I suggest sending an email to Brother tech support to ask them to fix their package
<jetsaredim> there was never a hard dep on ia32-libs
<mdeslaur> jetsaredim: oh, so what's broken then?
<jetsaredim> but i had to install it under 13.04 in order to make it work
<jetsaredim> they don't have the deb packaged with the dep
<jetsaredim> but operationally it requires ia32-libs
<jetsaredim> or whatever was pulled in by ia32-libs
<mdeslaur> right, so you just need to install those packages yourself
<jetsaredim> right
<mdeslaur> do you have a link to the brother driver? perhaps I can take a look and see what it needs
<jetsaredim> http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/before.html#004
<mdeslaur> also, are the brother drivers in the archive too old?
<jetsaredim> lib32stdc++ aparentky
<jetsaredim> *apparently
<jetsaredim> they worked fine under 13.04
<jetsaredim> but i'm not sure if that means lib32stdc++6 or some i386 form of a different lib
<mdeslaur> jetsaredim: what printer is this for?
<jetsaredim> mfcj835dw
<jetsaredim> also - on an unrelated note - is there a way to restart or kick the panel in the head?
<mdeslaur> the panel?
<jetsaredim> yea top panel
<mdeslaur> oh, I don't know
<jetsaredim> clock & all that
<jetsaredim> it seems to have gone off the deep end on me
<jetsaredim> fwiw the debs do provide a ppd file that's valid for the printer
<mdeslaur> jetsaredim: I don't see a single i386 binary in those cups packages
<mdeslaur> they all look like shell scripts
<jetsaredim> no idea
<jetsaredim> i installed the lib32stdc++6 and it seems to work now
<jetsaredim> so whatev
<mdeslaur> oh wait, I found some
<mdeslaur> jetsaredim: ok, glad to hear it's working
<mdeslaur> they definitely should update their documentation
#ubuntu-desktop 2013-10-20
<benishor> hi there. after upgrading to 13.10 (from 13.04), indicator-session icon is missing, http://hq.scene.ro/session-indicator-missing-icon.png
<benishor> can anybody help me with a hint into restoring it? already tried to purge session-indicator and reinstall it but to no avail
<benishor> I found the problem: system-devices-panel* icons that are being refered by indicator-session's service.c, are not available in the default icon theme. weird
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-13
<willcooke> morning
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you?
<willcooke> morning seb128 - pretty good!  Got lots of slide prep to do today :/
<seb128> good luck with that!
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks
<Laney> yo yo yo
<willcooke> 'sup Laney
<willcooke> Laney, still hung over from the beer fest?
<willcooke> ;)
<Laney> hey
<seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
<Laney> willcooke: no hang over :P
<Laney> A fair few thirds were consumed though
<seb128> hang over is when you are done being drunk
<seb128> Laney, still drunk then? ;-)
<willcooke> :D
<Laney> YOU GUYS ARE MY BEST FRIENDS
<seb128> :-)
 * willcooke hands laney a kebab
<ogra_> why does this channel smell like a brewery this morning ?
<willcooke> hahaha
<willcooke> :)
 * Laney starts a fight
<willcooke> lol
 * seb128 goes under the table
<Laney> I remember tricking people into eating the super hot chili chocolate
<Laney> good weekends everyone else? ;-)
<seb128> by not telling them there was chili in the chocolate?
<seb128> w.e was alright, we had a sunny sunday which was nice
 * willcooke did this:  http://www.johnogauntgolfclub.co.uk/competition.php?compid=2587
<Laney> good skills
<willcooke> certain amount of luck in there :)
<seb128> 1h40 of footing and some biking, otherwise mostly a quiet w.e here
<seb128> hehe
<Laney> footing?!
<seb128> jogging
<Laney> haha
<seb128> we call that footing in french :p
<seb128> well both words work here
<TheMuso> Morning fellow desktoppers. :)
<willcooke> heyhey TheMuso
<Laney> woah
<willcooke> good afternoon
<willcooke> evening
<Laney> what an unusual treat ;-)
<Laney> hi TheMuso
<TheMuso> willcooke: Try evening, yay timezone shifting. :)
<TheMuso> Not usually on this late, but am currently around atm.
<seb128> sooo
<seb128> u-s-d idle fix landed
<seb128> but I had u-s-d segfaulting on me a few times during the w.e :-/
<Laney> bt?
<seb128> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8551106/
<seb128> that happened during "normal" desktop use iirc
<seb128> like doing webbrowsing in an unlocked session
<larsu> stop scrolling!
<seb128> yeah, seems like I should ;-)
<larsu> want me to have a look?
<Laney> should be darkxst
<seb128> if you want, sure
<seb128> but what Laney said
<seb128> was that the issue mentioned some days ago
<seb128> device handling in gtk/clutter, he said that looked like a bug in gtk?
<larsu> ah okay. Let me know
 * larsu goes back to i-messages 
<seb128> Laney, the evo stack has a point update if you fancy working on that
<Laney> yeah I saw it on ftp-release-list
<Laney> gtk2 too
<seb128> right
<seb128> Laney, well, that was sort of "do you want to do it, should I have a look, do you want to split?"
<Laney> nah I'm doing those today
<Laney> unless you want it
<seb128> not especially, no, please do those ;-)
<seb128> thanks
<darkxst> hi seb128 Laney larsu
<seb128> hey darkxst
<seb128> how are you?
<larsu> hi darkxst
<darkxst> I'm good, winter is back though!
<seb128> winter is good!
 * seb128 doesn't like automn when it's windy and rainy
<darkxst> its both those here today!
<hyperair> come live in eternal summer, and you'll appreciate wind and rain
<Laney> this is today
<Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2641170
<darkxst> hyperair, I don't like summer!
<hyperair> darkxst: i know, right? now imagine living in a country that only has that.
<seb128> Laney, that weather seems about right for the u.k!
<Laney> it's payback for the nice summer/early autumn
<darkxst> seb128,  that is not the same issue as the double free issue
<seb128> no it's not
<ogra_> hmm, evolution seems to have some theme issues again in utopic
<ogra_> (i upgraded on the weekend)
<ogra_> selected mails in the list have a blue selection ... and in the preferences the "mail options" have black background
<ogra_> oh, and the frame around the preview is dark grey
<ogra_> i cant find any open bugs about any of these
<seb128> larsu, ^ some theming issues in there :-/
<larsu> ogra_: can you post a screenshot please?
<ogra_> i have played with gtk-theme-config, so the blue stuff is gone ... but i can make screenshots for the other two, yeah
<larsu> gtk-theme-config?
<ogra_> larsu, http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/evo1.png and http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/evo2.png
<larsu> ogra_: thanks. The gray brackground in evo1.png is wanted, no?
<ogra_> larsu, for the blue ... only the "tim.gardner@" on the right side was blueish ... the folder view on the left was fine
<ogra_> dunno, its new in utopic
<ogra_> was white in trusty ... might be that it is wanted though
<larsu> not sure tbh
<ogra_> heh
<larsu> I remember fixing it to set the right style clas
<larsu> *class
<larsu> I'll look into it in any case
<ogra_> the orange is hard to read on grey though
<larsu> I agree
<ogra_> (i could live with that one, but the blue and black look quite out of place)
<larsu> I don't see the blue... what exactly did you do to get rid of it?
<ogra_> just run gtk-theme-config  and click around in it ...
<larsu> ok
<larsu> thanks
<ogra_> not sure where that wrtes to or what it exactly changes, if you know, tell me and i can wipe it
<ogra_> (to show you the blue)
<ogra_> i dont seem to be able to get it back into the blue state using that tool though
<larsu> I didn't know about that program until 5 minutes ago ;)
<ogra_> haha
<larsu> maybe you had an local override somewhere? I can't reproduce the blue-ness here
<seb128> larsu, using o-s?
<larsu> ah stop, I can!
<seb128> just asking in case :p
<ogra_> not sure, where would they live ?
<larsu> seb128: :P
<ogra_> ah, god :)
<larsu> seb128: (of course)
<ogra_> *good even
<larsu> ugh. New evolution is doing it _very_ wrong...
<larsu> looking up color variable names from the css instead of setting classes
<larsu> of course, our themes don't use the same variable names as Adwaita.....
<larsu> *sigh*
<ogra_> yay, consistency
<Laney> happyaron: do you think you could help with sponsoring for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libkkc/+bug/1374949 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1374949 in libkkc (Ubuntu) "FFe: New upstream release for libkkc/ibus-kkc" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> ibus-kkc is awaiting pkg-ime in Debian
<seb128> I'm away for some errands, bbiab
<pitti> so this is XFCE
<pitti> of course compiz starts crashing every 2 mins right when I'm on a conference :/
<larsu> hi pitti! How's plumbers? And why xfce?
<pitti> larsu: it was the first thing that came to my mind wrt. "I need another WM"
<pitti> and gnome-shell pulls in gdm and a lot of other stuff
<Laney> how's it crashing?
<pitti> I'm running into bug 1366351
<ubot5> bug 1366351 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1366351
<Laney> ah
<Laney> it's the one where Trevinho was asking for people who could reproduce?
<pitti> I already reset most of my dconf settings, but didn't help
<pitti> it just started out of the blue yesterday; apparently related to using the internal laptop screen instead of my usual external one
<pitti> but I haven't seen it (that badly at least) earlier
<larsu> pitti: unity not working out for you anymore?
<pitti> it crashes with that every minute or so, and it always completely shuffles my windows and workspaces, so it's way too annoying
<larsu> :/ I have this as well, but not nearly as often
<tkamppeter> seb128, hi
<larsu> seb128, ogra_: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/ubuntu-themes/evolution-fixes/+merge/238174
<willcooke> errrrrr
<willcooke> that was suboptimal
<willcooke> my laptop just turned itself off and back on again for no reason and no warning
<ogra_> larsu, wow, thats a lot 1
<ogra_> !
<ogra_> (and thanks !!)
<seb128> tkamppeter, hey
<seb128> willcooke, do you have a crash for unity-settings-daemon?
<seb128> larsu, danke
<Laney> he's on trusty afaik, and that wouldn't make your laptop turn off
<mdeslaur> seb128: so, what's the deal with CSD? gnote is looking way out of place..
<willcooke> seb128, nothing in syslog
<seb128> Laney, it makes my screen turn off for some seconds and come back on
<seb128> mdeslaur, Trevinho is working on it, feel free to nag him or bregma
<mdeslaur> seb128: cool, thanks
<seb128> willcooke, did you plug/unplug/close lid/...?
<mdeslaur> Trevinho, bregma: nag nag, whine whine
<willcooke> Laney, seb128 yeah my laptop really did turn off - back to the bios screen
<Laney> and you're still on 14.04?
<willcooke> Laney, yeah
<willcooke> on this machine at least
<willcooke> my "playing" machine is 14.10
<Laney> seb128 was suspecting a utopic bug
<Laney> just making sure it isn't that
<willcooke> this smells like a hardware fault to me
<willcooke> because
<tkamppeter> seb128, would it be a problem to let s-c-p depend on smbclient (so making smbclient part of the default installation)? To fix bug 1366756.
<ubot5> bug 1366756 in system-config-printer (Ubuntu) "system-config-printer.py crashed with FileNotFoundError in _execute_child(): [Errno 2] Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden: 'gpk-install-package-name'" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1366756
<willcooke> a) it was sudden
<willcooke> b) my computer is *just* out of warranty
<Laney> I'd find the /var/log/kern.log.something corresponding to that boot and see if there's anything at the point it happened
<willcooke> Laney, already checked, nothing at all
<seb128> tkamppeter, that would need a ffe at least
<seb128> willcooke, could be an hardware issue...
<willcooke> :'(
<willcooke> I hope it was just "one of those things"
<willcooke> if it does it again I will have to find my wallet
<Laney> tkamppeter: can't you make it conditional?
<willcooke> if the moths haven't destroyed it
<tkamppeter> seb128, or is smbclient already part of the standard installation (for example to find network file shares)?
<tkamppeter> Laney, what do you mean with "conditional"?
<seb128> tkamppeter, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/utopic-desktop-amd64.manifest
<seb128> tkamppeter, libsmbclient is
<Trevinho> mdeslaur: support for managing windows (resizing, shadows...) is coming to unity in next landing, to get the proper theming of them we'd need some more work wich I'm doing
<Trevinho> Laney: yes, I think that's the bug.. The fact is that the stacktrace doesn't say anything relevant about compiz/unity
<seb128> Trevinho, what bug are you talking about?
<seb128> Trevinho, is that known that compiz/unity segfaults when unity-settings-daemon goes down?
<Laney> tkamppeter: Looks like that method is used elsewhere in s-c-p anyway
<Laney> I think you need to port it
<Trevinho> seb128: 1366351
<Trevinho> seb128: oh, is that related to u-s-d?
<seb128> Trevinho, well, I don't know, I just know that "stop unity-settings-daemon" or when you have it to segfault
<Trevinho> mh
<seb128> Trevinho, does it happen for you?
<mdeslaur> Trevinho: thanks
<Trevinho> seb128: I can't kill it now, I'll do son
<Trevinho> soon*
<Laney> right, see you
<seb128> Laney, have fun!
<happyaron> Laney: yes, I asked them to file the FFe
<happyaron> Laney: I'll take care of reviewing and uploading
<willcooke> morning robert_ancell
<robert_ancell> willcooke, hey, forgot about daylight savings again
<willcooke> ha!
<robert_ancell> but can meeting whenever you are ready
<willcooke> that would be great!
<willcooke> robert_ancell, you need 5 mins first?
<robert_ancell> nope
 * willcooke joins the hangout
<robert_ancell> desrt, regarding grabs and gtk-mir - is there anything that strictly needs them? i.e. if the shell does the "correct" behaviour for menus/tooltips can we just stub them all out?
<willcooke> g'night
<desrt> robert_ancell: wayland lacks grabs, so ....
<desrt> robert_ancell: i'm sure anything that is "needed" is going to be worked around anyway
<robert_ancell> desrt, yeah, I thought so. I just wasn't sure if there was a gotcha somewhere
<desrt> i don't think there will be
<desrt> there is one minor issue but it won't impact us, i think: key binding selectors
<desrt> ie: click here to select the new key for feature X
<desrt> that will require a grab or a special protocol or something
<desrt> i didn't hear anything from wayland about how they were going to deal with this yet....
<desrt> but something to keep an eye for
 * desrt is on a plane, getting ready to take off -- talk to you in a few days :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-14
<pitti> Laney: in your staged gnome-terminal merge in bzr, what happened with 03_add_keywords.desktop, 20_add_alt_screen_toggle_ui.patch, and 60_add_lp_handler.patch?
<pitti> are these all obsolete? (not mentioned in merged changelog anywhere)
<darkxst> pitti, hey, your systemd 215 is working well here ;)
<pitti> darkxst: great, thanks for the feedback
<pitti> darkxst: I just saw debian bug 765101 which seems to cause some trouble, that's on my list (but that's in -shim)
<ubot5> Debian bug 765101 in systemd-shim "systemd-shim dbus policy outdated, breaks systemctl" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/765101
<pitti> oh, slangasek already fixed it
<darkxst> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-settings-daemon/+bug/1380278/comments/7
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1380278 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "unity-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in _gdk_device_xi2_reset_scroll_valuators()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<darkxst> maybe you have a coredump laying about?
<seb128> let me have a look
<larsu> darkxst: it would already have crashed in line 870 in that case, when scroll_evaluators->len is accessed
<darkxst> larsu, but it is crashing at line 870
<darkxst> #0  0x00007f4aed57b3a4 in _gdk_device_xi2_reset_scroll_valuators (device=0x24c4b10) at /build/buildd/gtk+3.0-3.12.2/./gdk/x11/gdkdevice-xi2.c:870
<larsu> darkxst: oops, I misread. For some reason I was under the impression that it crashed in line 874. Sorry!
<darkxst>         i = 0
 * larsu <-- needs more tea
<larsu> scroll_evaluators is created in every case, though...
<larsu> I wonder if 'device' has been unreffed one too many times and is dangling?
<darkxst> larsu, I am thinking its somehow getting finalized
<larsu> right
<seb128> darkxst, the bt of the dump here starts with ??, so I can't get the info
<seb128> let me see next time it happens
<seb128> oh, in fact I've a new one
<seb128> (gdb) p device->scroll_valuators
<seb128> $1 = (GArray *) 0x0
<darkxst> larsu, we were hitting a double free of GdkDevice, which seemed to be coming from gdk
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<larsu> seb128: `p *(GObject *)device`
<seb128> $2 = {g_type_instance = {g_class = 0x9559ca0}, ref_count = 71,
<seb128>   qdata = 0x95610b8}
<seb128> hey TheMuso, how are you?
<TheMuso> Well thanks.
<larsu> seb128: thanks. Object seems to be alive
<TheMuso> Is anybody looking into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1374721 or one of its variants? THis is affecting my usage of Orca in GNOME apps rather heavily, as I use modifiers quite a lot...
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1374721 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus-daemon uses 100% CPU when using gnome-calculator" [Undecided,New]
<TheMuso> Haven't tried the work-around yet as I haven't relogged today...
<seb128> TheMuso, no, but it would be great if you could have a look/help on that one since you hit it
<TheMuso> Sure, I'll see what I can do tomorrow. This seems to have only bitten me after a fresh install, since I must have had something in my settings such that I didn't have ibus-daemon running in my sessiion, and now I do, well at least until I killed it today to see if it would help, given I don't need it.
<darkxst> larsu, so we are taking a ref on the GdkDevice in idle_monitor to avoid the double free that was triggering,
<darkxst> but somehow scroll_valuators is getting free'd but not the device?
<larsu> ya, this is what I find strange... might be that the pointer is dangling and the ref count we're seeing is not real, though
<larsu> darkxst: which idle_monitor do you mean?
<darkxst> larsu, see the commit to unity-settings-daemon
<larsu> there's a suspicious "GDK_IS_DEVICE(device)" failed in the log, too
<larsu> darkxst: h, u-s-d, thanks
<darkxst> larsu, yeh I saw that too
<larsu> uhm, you take a ref in on_device_added but never unref it?
<willcooke> morning
<darkxst> larsu, yes, otherwise we hit a double free of the device
<larsu> interesting. Clearly that's not the right fix ;)
<darkxst> I'll blame Laney for that one
<larsu> this looks suspicious as well:
<larsu>   g_object_unref(device_monitors[device_id]);
<larsu>   g_clear_object (&device_monitors[device_id]);
<larsu> g_clear_object() unrefs, too
<darkxst> larsu, we take a ref on the monitor otherwise it gets disposed before that point
<larsu> darkxst: just to get the bug picture: this is copied from g-s-d, right? Do they have the same issues?
<larsu> *big, not bug
<larsu> (as I said, I'm low on tea)
<larsu> willcooke: morning, how goes?
<willcooke> good thanks larsu
<seb128> hey willcooke
<darkxst> its copied from mutter
<willcooke> hey seb128
<darkxst> they don't have the same problems, but the device management is handled in clutter (and that also leaks a GdkDevice ref)
<larsu> ugh. "fun"
<larsu> seb128: how do you reproduce?
<seb128> larsu, I don't :-/
<larsu> more fun \o/
<seb128> larsu, it happens a few time a day in "normal use"
<seb128> I've an apport file with the dump, so I can use gdb on it
<seb128> but that's about it
<larsu> seb128: and you don't have some weird device combination?
<seb128> I don't think so
<seb128> that's a dell latitude laptop undocked without anything plugged into it (out of an ubuntu phone I adb to)
<larsu> ok, thanks
<Laney> darkxst: what are you talking about?
<Laney> good morning
<darkxst> larsu, hmm, clutter has its own implementation (although very similar) of the scroll valuators, and incidently they check for NULL before reset/unset
<darkxst> Laney, leaking the GdkDevice ref
<larsu> hi Laney!
<Laney> you were trying to blame gdk and now you're blaming me
<Laney> how about stopping the blame :)
<Laney> hey larsu
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> pretty good
<Laney> I think it's been raining for 24 hours now
<seb128> that's u.k for you!
<Laney> making up for lost time
 * seb128 looks out of the windows
<seb128> doh, it's raining here too
<Laney> it was the driest september since records began or something
<darkxst> Laney, well there is a bug in gdk
<darkxst> and it possibly hasnt been noticed since clutter also leaks a ref on GdkDevice
<darkxst> larsu, https://git.gnome.org/browse/clutter/commit/?id=676a31743993915437da419551d7c5193f0b9f43
<Laney> pitti: is 60_ newer than that?
<Laney> I was going to drop 20_, don't remember about 03_ but probably that too
<Laney> I would freshen that up when coming to the point of upload of course
<larsu> darkxst: that class creates scroll_info lazily, that's why it needs the NULL checks
<darkxst> hmm ok
<pitti> Laney: hey!
<Laney> hello
<pitti> Laney: 60_ isn't newer, it was added on Sep 30 last year, and your merge is from this May?
<pitti> Laney: so initially I was going to take the 3.6.1 debian-ubuntu debdiff and apply it to 3.14, but as bzr already has a lot of changes staged up it might be better to update to 3.12 first, finish the merge, sort out the "cwd of new tabs" issue, and then update to 3.14 in a second step?
<larsu> darkxst: remove_device in gdkdevicemanager-xi2.c runs dispose, but fails to unref the reference device_manager->devices has
<larsu> that _seems_ like a leak
<larsu> ah stop, g_object_run_dispose() also removes a ref
<larsu> bah, I hate that function
<Laney> pitti: then maybe it wasn't committed to bzr
<larsu> (false alarm: it doesn't. I still hate the function)
<Laney> I don't know if 3.14 would be much work on top
<Laney> I would probably just do it all at once
<pitti> Laney: possibly; so I take it the LP:# support should stay
<seb128> larsu, thanks for helping debugging that
<larsu> seb128: what have I gotten myself into?!
<seb128> larsu, ;-)
<larsu> seb128: if only I could reproduce
<pitti> Laney: and I don't know what "Hook new vte alternate screen scrolling toggle via UI" (20_* patch) is supposed to mean; so that should go?
<seb128> larsu, that would be too easy
<larsu> seb128: what exactly does the idle monitor do? Is that the thing making my screen go to sleep when I don't interact?
<seb128> right
<larsu> this hasn't been working for me for a couple of days...
<seb128> go to sleep/lock
 * pitti waves to Laney and seb128 from sunny Duesseldorf, we had dinner outside yesterday, and I walked to the conference center in the sun :-P
<Laney> pitti: if it applies, sure
<seb128> pitti, hey, it's raining quite a lot here :/
<Laney> alternate screen scrolling is passing mouse wheel stuff through to the terminal IIRC
<darkxst> I have to go for dinner, will be back a bit later
<larsu> pitti: nice, enjoy! Could you get desrt a beer from me please. He had travel trouble ;)
<larsu> I'll repay with ice cream in DC ;)
<pitti> larsu: yeah, he told me this morning
<pitti> larsu: I should see him this afternoon, I'll forward the greeting and get him a beer tonight :)
<larsu> thanks!
<Laney> It'll need porting to the new series, so we need to decide to do that or drop it
<pitti> Laney: oh, scrolling back through the output with the mouse wheel isn't upstream, but an Ubuntu patch?
<pitti> how odd
<Laney> the UI for configuring it
<Laney> I *think*, this is dusty memory
<pitti> ah
<Laney> check if vte has a patch to add it or supports that upstream
<Laney> configuring â toggling
<pitti> Laney: ack; thanks for the heads-up so far; I had an initial look at the merge yesterday, I'll see whether I can spend some time on it this week
<Laney> would they take the env var fallback stuff upstream?
<pitti> Laney: do you remember a use case where people would not want it? It's not like CLI programs usually use the scroll wheel..
<Laney> I don't think I was going to bother porting it
<pitti> Laney: most probably not, but the discussion was fairly fruitful in the end, so maybe we can convince them
<pitti> Laney: yeah, my feeling, too
<pitti> (not porting the 20_ patch)
<Laney> well you can probably work on a git checkout instead of needing to do the merge in the first instance
<Laney> we should record the dropped patches in the changelog
<larsu> hm, I wonder if I'm looking for an extra unref or a leak
<larsu> Laney: do you know about this gdkdevice issue? ^
<larsu> darkxst was saying there's a leak, but also that you needed to add extra refs to not make it crash or something
<Laney> I think there was an extra unref somewhere
<Laney> but his latest commits were meant to fix that, I thought
<larsu> where are those?
<larsu> here? https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/unity-settings-daemon/lp1377847/+merge/237507
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> if you take that branch at revision 4056 you can get the crashy version back
<Laney> I guess that the fix for that wasn't completely right
<Laney> I found that the GsdIdleMonitor was losing a ref in fire_watch when coming out of the monitor_became_active callback
<Laney> anyways I'm not sure I understood it properly so feel free to take it
<Laney> was easy to crash at that revision, just user switch to guest account and back
<seb128> just to the greeter is enough
<seb128> like pick another user
<seb128> and on the greeter instead of typing the password, just go back to your user
<Laney> yeah it's the leaving the session thats enough
<larsu> Laney: monitor_became_active?
<Laney> yes
<Laney> it's a callback
<larsu> I can't find that
<Laney> it's in the cursor plugin
<larsu> ah, thanks
<Laney> anyway maybe that's meant to unref it
<Laney> you can build it at r4056 and poke around for yourself :)
<larsu> will do. Thanks!
<ogra_> hmm, am i supposed to be able to install desktop-next alongside woth -desktop in utopic ?
 * ogra_ sees urfkilld go wild on his laptop
<seb128> pitti, re. your compiz segfault, do you have unity-settings-daemon report from apport on disk?
<seb128> ogra_, desktop-next is an iso, you can install it, nothing block you from installing unity8 on a normal ubuntu install or unity7 on an desktop-next one
<ogra_> seb128, well, i installed the desktop-next meta on my utpic laptop
<ogra_> (which works fine ... but seems some services arent really desktop ready ... like urfkill)
<seb128> ogra_, well, what you get is the current state of that stack on a desktop
<seb128> right
<seb128> we didn't claim it was user ready
<seb128> the goal is to be able to test and report that sort of issues
<ogra_> right
<seb128> you should probably log a bug about that
<ogra_> yep, will do
<seb128> thanks
<ogra_> its up to now the only actual issue i have seen
<seb128> that's somewhat good ;-)
<larsu> woah, u-s-d crashes a lot for me :/
 * larsu has fixes and is testing
<Laney> A+ would palm bugs off onto again
<Laney> :P
<larsu> ?
<Laney> oh god that's not worth explaining
<willcooke> lol
<willcooke> dropbox pwnage :(
<willcooke> oh, actually not Dropbox's fault, but people trying other hacked creds against dropbox
<larsu> willcooke: they say they didn't get hacked
<larsu> right
<larsu> seb128, Laney: so I think I've got a fix, but I can't reproduce the crash, even with r4056
<Laney> even with user switching?
<LocutusOfBorg1> xnox, please let me know about 1334234
<LocutusOfBorg1> #1334234
<larsu> Laney: yes. I switched to Guest Session and back
<Laney> wow
<Laney> it crashed 100% of the time for me
<Laney> guess it's device specific
<larsu> might be
<Laney> the device_id in the bt referred to my mouse
<larsu> I don't have a mouse
<larsu> let me enable my trackpad though :)
<Laney> don't know if it is necessary or sufficient
<Laney> I can try though, just hand over a branch
<larsu> oh, that doesn't work anymore :(
<LocutusOfBorg1> xnox, also commented on bug 1245105
<ubot5> bug 1245105 in lucene++ (Ubuntu) "[please sync lucene++ from debian] Mysteriously FTBFS on the distro builders" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1245105
<larsu> Laney: got it when installing the package (I ran it from the source dir with --replace before)
<larsu> I wonder what the difference is there
<Laney> with your fix?
<larsu> no, without. Building with the fix right now
<larsu> I'll give you the branch once I verified
<Laney> phew ;-)
<larsu> do you know why it can't access any dbus services when running from the source?
<larsu> apparmor?
<Laney> don't know
<Laney> that'd be in dmesg
<larsu> Laney: doesn't crash. I love when things work out just by going through the code and looking where ref counting is done wrong :)
<Laney> well done
<Laney> it got a bit twisty for me to follow properly
<larsu> ya, it was quite hairy
<larsu> I'm thinking about writing a test for it
<larsu> needs to get into g-s-d, too
<larsu> but first, please test it: lp:~larsu/unity-settings-daemon/lp1380278
<Laney> do you revert the latest commits?
<larsu> Laney: not literally, but more or less, ya
<Laney> good, thanks
 * Laney builds
<seb128> larsu, good job:
<seb128> !
 * seb128 gets that as well
<Laney> did pitti ever confirm if he was hitting that?
<tkamppeter> mvo, hi
<seb128> Laney, no, but he's a plumber and doesn't seems to be online a lot
<Laney> just wondering
<larsu> is it working for you?
<pitti> Laney: hitting what?
<Laney> a crash in u-s-d
<pitti> Laney: I did get u-s-d crashes along with the compiz ones, but I haven't looked at them
<Laney> The suspicion is that your bug is the one larsu fixed ^^^
<Laney> if you have the resources to compile u-s-d
<pitti> Laney: or is it the other way around, and a crashing u-s-d causes compiz to crash with bug 1366351?
<ubot5> bug 1366351 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1366351
<Laney> yes
<pitti> ooh
 * pitti hugs larsu
<pitti> I'll build and test that, yes
<larsu> pitti: not sure if it solves your issue. I just fixed a couple of ref counting errors
<larsu> it's fixing the u-s-d crash for me
 * larsu hopes for everyone else too
 * pitti feeds sbuild
<pitti> Laney, larsu: running desktop with your package now
<seb128> pitti, hey, yeah u-s-d going down segfaults compiz for some reason, I pinged Trevinho about it yesterday
<seb128> not sure he looked at it yet
<seb128> bregma, ^ do you know?
<bregma> seb128, is there at least a backtrace?
<pitti> seb128: ah, so it's that way around
<seb128> bregma, can get one if you want, it's trivial, just kill unity-settings-daemon and look yourself?
<seb128> bregma, or segfault or or use "stop" from upstart
<pitti> ah yes, I remember unity wetting its pants whenever I was testing a new settings-daemon
<larsu> yep :(
<pitti> larsu: so in the meantime my desktop already survived 5 minutes, that's good!
<bregma> we're having a good deal of trouble reproducing #1366351 on any of our machines, if that's the key we'll be doing some wacky haopy dancing
<pitti> before that I got compiz crashing once a minute or so
<seb128> bregma, it might be, can you try if stopping u-s-d leads to compiz issues for you?
 * bregma is playing with it now
<larsu> pitti: good luck :)
<Laney> looking good here, byw
<larsu> glad to hear
<seb128> same here
 * Laney luncheon
<pitti> larsu: my hero!
<larsu> :)
 * pitti back to unity -- it was absolutely useless before :(
<pitti> odd that it never happend with my exernal monitor at home
<larsu> pitti: do you have different input devices at home?
<pitti> larsu: yes; the laptop is closed in the dock, i. e. no touchpad and trackpoint; I only use the external USB mouse and keyboard
<pitti> larsu: arges in #u-devel has the same problem, I tossed him the debs from your branch
<larsu> pitti: that might be the crucial difference. Even though I'm not sure how that would work exactly, the redundant unrefs should hit in any case
<larsu> pitti: cool. Let me know if anyone finds problems with it. Otherwise let's try to get this in asap
<pitti> +1
 * pitti hugs larsu
 * larsu is happy about all the hugs
<larsu> and hugs back ;)
<pitti> bregma, seb128: bug 1366351 reproducer confirmed, I updated bug title and description accordingly
<ubot5> bug 1366351 in compiz (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in g_closure_invoke() if unity-settings-daemon goes away" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1366351
<pitti> and added the reproducer
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<seb128> bregma said he would confirm if he gets the issue
<seb128> I also pointed it to Trevinho yesterday but didn't get any reply from him
<bregma> I get the crash, I'm running apport-retrace locally to confirm it;s the same bug
<seb128> cool
<bregma> stuipid thing wants to download debug packages for pretty much everything installed on the system, bye-bye bandwidth
<seb128> just use gdb on the dump?
<pitti> bregma: everything in unity's /proc/pid/maps, which supposedly is $lots :/
<seb128> I usually don't bother with apport-retrace to get bt for things like that
<seb128> install glib, gtk, compiz, unity dbgsym and it's often good enough
<seb128> I've most of those installed on my dev box
<pitti> Laney, seb128: ok, I bent upstream git head gnome-terminal to my will; I'll send the patch upstream in case they adopt it, and otherwise just commit it to bzr
<seb128> pitti, k
<pitti> patch sent upstream, and now session o'clock
<Laney> nice, ty
<Laney> larsu: can haz MP for u-s-d?
<larsu> Laney: sure, it seems to work, eh?
<Laney> I'd say so
<larsu> Laney: https://code.launchpad.net/~larsu/unity-settings-daemon/lp1380278/+merge/238309
<Laney> merci
<mdeslaur> hrm, is empathy supposed to work in 14.10? I can't seem to open a new chat window by clicking on people, and I am getting their new messages as weird "phone call" bubbles
<willcooke> qengho, chrisccoulson - you got mail
<qengho> AIEE!
<willcooke> qengho, nothing to worry about :)
<willcooke> yikes
 * willcooke is slack
<willcooke> no list of attendees yet
<Laney> shit no summary yet
<willcooke> :D
 * Sweetshark sneak in at the back of the class room
<willcooke> wing it
<seb128> hey
<Laney> never
<willcooke> #startmeeting Ubuntu Desktop Weekly Meeting 2014-10-14
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 14 15:30:37 2014 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Laney> sexy bullet points are a must
<willcooke> This weeks special guests include:
<Laney> haha
<willcooke> attente_, desrt, FJKong, happyaron, Laney, larsu, qengho , seb128, Sweetshark, tkamppeter
<willcooke> but attente_ and desrt  might not be here
<seb128> _o/
 * willcooke works on the assumption that attente_ and desrt are out - if you're in, we'll come back to you
<willcooke> actually, I'm going to skip straight to Laney because FJKong and happyaron might be asleep
<willcooke> #topic laney
<willcooke> Laney, over to you
<Laney> oh man
<willcooke> I can come back
<Laney> no no, this has been ready for many hours
<Laney> â¢ Short week due to BEER
<Laney> â¢ evolution/e-d-s/gtkhtml updates in D & U, brown paper bag new upstream for e-d-s coming (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737903)
<ubot5> Gnome bug 737903 in Mailer "[SMTP] Crash when authentication fails" [Critical,Resolved: fixed]
<Laney> â¢ gtk2 update
<Laney> â¢ webkit in Utopic and Trusty, package/test/SRUify/upload
<Laney> â¢ some debugging of u-s-d crashes / ref errors, finally fixed by larsu & soon to be in silo 008
<Laney> â¢ gst-base upload for a touch fix
<seb128> willcooke, that's a mean thing you are doing that to a fellow u.k team mate
<Laney> â¢ queue and FFe reviews, etc
<Laney> DONE
<willcooke> seb128, Laney is solid gold - I knew he'd be ready
<seb128> ;-)
 * seb128 gets ready as well
<willcooke>  /furtive
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic larsu
<willcooke> larsu, you're up
<larsu> oh wow, it's me already?
<larsu> - triaged, investigated, and reassigned rtm14 messaging menu and sound bugs
<larsu> - evolution theme fixes
<larsu> - fixed the ref count problems in unity-settings-daemon
<larsu> (upstreaming that right now + some tests for it)
<larsu> that's it for this week (that first point took quite some time)
<willcooke> thanks larsu
<Laney> how's the opw stuff?
<larsu> oh, there were some menumodel issues/discussion as well
<larsu> Laney: trying to find out what the acceptance criteria are
<larsu> Laney: I've got quite some candidates for the project
<Laney> will/can you set a test or something?
<larsu> not sure. Also not sure who to ask :( Do you know any previous mentors?
<larsu> (we can discuss this after the meeting)
<willcooke> let's do that
<willcooke> #topic qengho
<Laney> desrt might be better to ask
<willcooke> qengho, over to you
<qengho> * done: Cleared years of legal hurdles. Packaged actual Adobe Flash (PPAPI&NPAPI) for partners repo.
<qengho> * in-progress: releasing chromium 38. Working on bug with internal launchpad translations.
<qengho> * to-do: speaking of translations: adding "gd" language to whitelist. 100% as of yesterday.
<qengho> * need: reviews of packaging.
<willcooke> congratulations on the Flash packaging, and thanks for sticking with it to the end :)
<qengho> I hope to have it in repo this evening.
<willcooke> qengho, could you reply to my email re: UA when you get a sec, I'd like to get that off my list today if poss
<willcooke> (if you haven't already)
<qengho> willcooke: i will. it's not a "yes, done."
<willcooke> qengho, ah, kk, thx
<willcooke> ok, shall we move on to seb128?
<willcooke> #topic seb128
<seb128> â¢ looked at translations issues on the rtm image (uitk, indicator-power, content-hub, gallery), provided fixes for most of those
<seb128> â¢ reported some bugs on the rtm images, looked at providing details/patches for some issues
<seb128> â¢ ubuntu-system-settings for touch
<seb128> â no much hacking this week, mostly reviews and testing of changes from others
<seb128> â¢ updated glibmm to be in sync with our glib version/fix ftbfs
<seb128> â¢ fixed gtk+3 translation template being outdated
<seb128> â¢ tested unity-settings-daemon update (fix for idle monitor issues), hit some segfaults, tried to provide useful debug info
<seb128> â¢ some sponsoring
<seb128> â¢ usual share of bugs triaging and desktop discussions
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> excellent, thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic Sweetshark
<willcooke> Sweetshark, over to you
<Sweetshark> - configured TDF-owned hardware for shipping to datacenter
<Sweetshark> - fixed dict-ss, dict-ve FTBFS
<Sweetshark> - libixion MIR
<Sweetshark> - grinded through all ~150 upstream writer regressions
<Sweetshark> -- identified offending commits etc.
<Sweetshark> -- did some stats on how the regressions where triaged (are they bisected? is the bugfix that caused the regression known etc.)
<Sweetshark> - some upstream leadership and direction of employees as our ED was on vacation
<Sweetshark> EOF
<willcooke> thanks Sweetshark
<willcooke> tkamppeter, you're up
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.0.61 upstream and in Utopic, to let the PPD files use the "*cupsFilter2: ..."  entry instead of "*cupsFilter: ..." to supply the destination file format as some backends, especially the IPP backend do certain things depending on the data format. Also fixed a memory leak in cups-browsed
<tkamppeter> - First look into how to backport the IPP Everywhere support into Trusty
<tkamppeter> - Investigations on printing multiple copies on PDF printers
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter - I will get back to you asap on the back porting stuff
<willcooke> #topic willcooke
<willcooke> * Slides
<willcooke> * Slides
<willcooke> * Slides
<willcooke> * More Slides
<willcooke> #topic TheMuso
<willcooke> * Further discussion upstream about moving Speech DIspatcher forward and making it useful for touch.
<willcooke> * Discussion with Qt devs upstream about whether Qt is going to have its own text to speech API. I started work on QML bindings for Speech Dispatcher some months back, but it may be quicker to work on Qt's cross-platform API instead, which would improve portability.
<willcooke> * Hit an interesting bug with ibus-daemon and modifier keys causing issues with Orca in GNOME apps, need to debug further.
<willcooke> * Sponsored an upload for at-spi2-atk which pulls a fix from upstream needed for GNOME shell in combination with synaptic and some other apps.
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
<willcooke> Worked on:
<willcooke> - Released lightdm 1.10.3, 1.12.1
<willcooke> - Prepared documentation for 1.10.3 SRU and uploaded package
<willcooke> - Bug triage, fixing
<willcooke> Currently working on:
<willcooke> - Bug fixing for utopic release
<willcooke> - Preparing for sprint
<willcooke> Not blocked on anything.
<willcooke> #topic AOB
<willcooke> Looking forward to seeing you all at the sprint next week, sadly tkamppeter won't be able to join us in person
 * Sweetshark is looking forward so see willcookes various waterslide designs in washington in action ...
<willcooke> :D
<willcooke> Some of them are really good
<Sweetshark> wheee!
<willcooke> I'm not sure the loop-the-loop will work
<willcooke> ok, anything else from anyone before we wrap?
<willcooke> 1 min...
<seb128> don't spoil the slide jokes now, let some surprises for next week
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> ;-)
<willcooke> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 14 15:51:33 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2014/ubuntu-desktop.2014-10-14-15.30.moin.txt
<willcooke> thank you all
<seb128> thanks!
<Laney> b+ would meet again, if asked
<willcooke> Laney, how were the delivery times?
<willcooke> ooohhhhhhhh
<willcooke> totally missed a joke about packaging there
<willcooke> :/
<Laney> now that part is always top notch
<willcooke> \o/
<Laney> but try as I might, I just could not find the trolling I'd ordered
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> some people here clearly need some sleep
<seb128> could be you guys or could be me, because I've nfc what's going on :p
 * seb128 grabs some coffee
<willcooke> Laney's leaving us eBay feedback
<Sweetshark> seb128: I heard if you have nfc what going on, the usual procedure is to blame it on systemd these days ...
<seb128> Sweetshark, I don't care, having nfc is cool nowadays anyway, even the iphone6 have it from what I read!
<Laney> I tried nfc once
<willcooke> Laney, is that a chicken shop on Mapperley Road?
<Laney> you just reminded me of http://www.nottinghampost.com/Magistrates-close-Khyber-Pass-takeaway-Hyson/story-21309594-detail/story.html
<Laney> I used to go there, RIP
<willcooke> :/
<Chipaca> desrt: you around?
<seb128> Chipaca, you better state your question ;-)
<Chipaca> seb128: oh oh
<seb128> Chipaca, he's (going?) to plumbers, so might be travelling/jetlagged/at conf/...
<seb128> Chipaca, others might be able to help you here though
<Chipaca> desrt: we're seeing gsettings (specifically, some but not all in the com.ubuntu.notifications.hub blacklist) get reset on reboot, any idea what may be doing that and why?
<seb128> oh
<seb128> he's not going to have an idea about that
<seb128> it's not gsettings/dconf doing
<Chipaca> tedg suggested he might
<seb128> it's likely a buggy client
<seb128> tedg, weird suggestion
 * Chipaca imagines tedg having a giggling fit and Chipaca's expense
<seb128> tedg, why would desrt would know best what on our touch device could do buggy write to that key?
<tedg> Seems like it's not a client issue since writes happen via dbus, no?
<tedg> And to be fair, it's desrt's touch device too :-)
<tedg> Chipaca, After you write the value can you see it via the command line tool?
<tedg> Chipaca, gsettings get
<seb128> tedg, define "client"
<seb128> tedg, I mean we have some code somewhere that write that key
<dednick> damn. my bluetooth refuses to unblock :(
<seb128> tedg, I suggested to Chipaca to do a dbus-monitor/bustle with an upstart job (as you blogged about some time ago) to see what calls are made by what process
<tedg> seb128, Sure, that could work as well, I was thinking it wasn't getting saved.
<tedg> seb128, But if someone is clearing it that's different.
<seb128> right
<seb128> well, from what I understood of the description something is set the key on boot
<seb128> set->(re)setting
<Chipaca> i did do the monitor thing
<Chipaca> and see it getting set
<Chipaca> but it's from a numeric id
<Chipaca> let me run that thing again
<Chipaca> tedg: it is getting set; it gets reset on reboot
<Chipaca> hrm
<Chipaca> it's the upstart bridge
<Chipaca> tedg: ^
<tedg> Chipaca, Wow, okay. That's weird.
<Chipaca> upstart-dbus-bridge
<Chipaca> owns 1.26
<Chipaca> which is where the write is coming from
<Chipaca> tedg: wasn't there a cleanup somethingorother?
<Chipaca> i thought that had been dropped
<tedg> Chipaca, I believe it has been.
<tedg> Well, I don't think it ever got added, so dropping wasn't an issue.
<Chipaca> that is, it was part of your original schema branch, but got nuked
<Chipaca> yeah
<Laney> byeee
<seb128> dpm, do you know where the gallery-app translations are coming from on the rtm? it's a click, so from the vcs?
<seb128> Laney, see you!
<seb128> Laney, oh, btw, should we land the u-s-d's fix from larsu?
<seb128> +1 from me
<larsu> we should
 * larsu hides
<seb128> larsu, :-)
<Laney> seb128: I silo'd it and commented on the bug
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<Laney> I can publish tomorrow if nobody has said anything bad
<dpm> seb128, let me double-check, if it's a click, yes, the vcs
<dpm> seb128, it seems gallery-app is being shipped as a package, and translations are shipped within the package
<seb128> dpm, ok, thanks
<RobBurkeOne> Hey guys. Did anyone test Gnome 3.14 in Ubuntu 14.04 so far? Perhabs by using the PPA of Rico Tzschichholz?
<bryceh_> seb128, fyi cairo 1.14.0 is available now.  http://cairographics.org/news/cairo-1.14.0/
<Saviq> bregma, is it known that unity is really crashy in utopic these days? I seem to get a new compiz run every time I resume, sometimes it just dies for no apparent reason, it seems especially connecting ext displays makes it unhappy
<Saviq> it looks like settings daemon might be the reason as I'm losing gtk theming every time
<seb128> bryceh_, thanks, I saw but we are frozen for utopic so likely for next cycle rather
<seb128> Saviq, https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-008 has a fixed u-s-d
 * Saviq gets
<seb128> Saviq, the unity/compiz issue is something bregma / Trevinho are looking at from what they said
<Saviq> seb128, thanks
<seb128> yw
<bryceh_> seb128, despite the round number 1.14.0 is largely just a lot of bug fixes.
<bryceh_> seb128, but yeah know it's late.  cya
<bregma> Saviq, the unity crasher bug is #1366351 if yu want to follow it
<Saviq> bregma, awesomes, thanks
<larsu> seb128: looks like the fix is working (from the one additional comment on the bug)
<k1l> hey guys. i want to test the mir/unity8 to help and find bugs. so the actual way is to use the live-isos? there was a unity8 package some releases ago (which broke my install on my netbook in the end) but that is not to be used anymore?
<seb128> larsu, great
<larsu> k1l: the unity8 package still exists. I think you want the desktop-next meta package though, as that will pull in all dependencies
<larsu> k1l: or install the iso
<larsu> seb128: so I guess we can land it? Do you need anything else from me in that branch?
<larsu> (I didn't do any changelog stuff etc)
<k1l> larsu: i would prefer a "choice on login". is that actual possible and keeps my unity7 untouched?
<larsu> k1l: I heard it is possible, but I'm not sure how well it works
<k1l> larsu: ok.
<larsu> k1l: thanks for wanting to help!
<seb128> larsu, Laney put it in a silo, I guess he's going to handle the landing tomorrow
<larsu> cool
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-15
<happyaron> Laney: can you add libkkc and ibus-kkc to input-method pkgset? I've sent the request email just now.
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> dpm, hey
<seb128> dpm, the fixes for the indicator-location and content-hub translations landed on the current rtm image, if you fancy testing/confirming those later
<dpm> seb128, cool, I've already seen the indicator-location fix working, let me test the content-hub one
<dpm> morning all
<seb128> dpm, the content hub might need the next langpack update, the template was incomplete so you miss translations on disk
<dpm> ah, I see
<seb128> I tested by exporting the .mo from launchpad and copying it manually
<dpm> seb128, do you know if pitti is back? It'd be good to release a langpack this week
<seb128> works here, I'm just asking to make sure somebody test on a device non hacked locally
<seb128> dpm, those are cron-ed and updated weekly afaik?
<larsu> dpm: he's at plumbers
<seb128> dpm, he's ... what larsu said
<seb128> he's around on IRC at times
<seb128> just ask and he's likely to get back to you during the day
<dpm> ok
<dpm> pitti, if you happen to be around, would it be possible to arrange a touch langpacks release this week? Or give me some info on how someone could do that while you're away?
<seb128> dpm, those happen on friday automatically no?
<dpm> seb128, the exports should happen automatically, but I'm not sure if pitti has automated the phone langpack package builds or if he triggers them manually
<seb128> oh ok
<pitti> dpm: well, I'm not really "away", I just don't pay attention to IRC; email works much better this week
<dpm> pitti, o/
<pitti> dpm: we have automatic touch langpacks every week
<pitti> dpm: for RTM they happen on Thursday evenings
<dpm> pitti, cool, thanks. Are the exports from LP full exports only? I remember you requested that to wgrant, but I can still see deltas at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/14.09/+language-packs - i.e. do we need to manually request full exports before every Thursday?
<pitti> dpm: they are not, I currently need to request them manually; I added a calendar event for that now
<dpm> ok, gotcha
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> hey pitti, how is the conf?
<willcooke> hey seb128 - pretty good, I think my slides are "done"
<willcooke> \o/
<pitti> seb128: quite nice so far, thanks; I have desrt sitting next to me now, he made it :)
<willcooke> hey desrt - you managed to get in! ;)
<seb128> pitti, are you using windows?
<larsu> willcooke: into germany? :P
<larsu> willcooke: (morning)
<pitti> seb128: yes, every day -- that's how I can see what's outside and let fresh air in
<willcooke> larsu, ha :D
 * larsu high-fives pitti
<seb128> pitti, :-)
<seb128> pitti, from another channel, <desrt> and the guy in the audience beside me is running windows
<seb128> ;-)
<pitti> seb128: if you mean the MS product, I believe I still have some Win7 image collecting virtual dust on my USB HDD
<seb128> willcooke, well done on the slides!
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I was just wondering because of that quote ^
<willcooke> seb128, olli has checked them, but I've got to get past rickspencer3 still :)
<seb128> I'm sure it's going to be fine!
<Laney> hallo!
<pitti> hey Laney
<darkxst> hey Laney, pitti, seb128
<Laney> hey pitti, how's DUS?
<seb128> hey darkxst
<Laney> what up darkxst
<seb128> hey Laney
<pitti> hey darkxst, how are you?
<seb128> how are you?
<Laney> happyaron: yeah, I usually read emails so no need to follow up with a ping :-)
<darkxst> I'm good, but I don't like painting!
<seb128> Laney, I published the u-s-d update, hope it's ok
<seb128> it's in unapproved still though
<Laney> YOU DID WHAT!!!!!!!
<seb128> ;-)
<Laney> that button is quite tempting eh
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> shame that you set up that landing
<Laney> i'm sure somebody will review it
<seb128> if I did it you could be waving it through unapproved
<Laney> it's like 25 lines instead of 999999 that the other one was
<darkxst> seb128, or Laney can you look at bug 1381297, would be good to get that through before final freeze
<ubot5> bug 1381297 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "gnome-classic sessions broken with upstart user sessions" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1381297
<desrt> willcooke: why would i have had trouble getting in? :)
<larsu> desrt: ceta
<seb128> desrt, could flight to Germany and handle Frankfurt airport while sleeping
<seb128> -,
<desrt> it's true
<larsu> seb128: I think he needs to be awake in order to make himself stay home. His default state is to get into a plane to FRA
<desrt> minus the crazy guy attacking me
<willcooke> :)
<larsu> random thought of the day: man, GOptionContext is bad
<desrt> larsu: it's not _that_ bad
<larsu> desrt: it's pretty bad
<desrt> faced with the choice of killing it off and rewriting it or giving it new life, i elected new life
<larsu> by putting it on gapplication?
<desrt> ya
<desrt> it's quite workable for the sort of things that most apps want to do
<larsu> it doesn't do most of the stuff modern command line tools need
<desrt> bad API, sure.... but we can take care of that with the gapp wrapping we do
<larsu> like positional arguments
<desrt> positional args
<larsu> or command-line structure
<desrt> ?
<larsu> desrt: "command-like". Think git <command> <optionsforthatcommand>
<desrt> i added support for that recently
<larsu> really? How does it work?
<desrt> hm.  maybe it never landed?!
<larsu> also, aliases would be nice. i.e., --no-color ==> --color=never, etc
<larsu> because now you need to keep all kinds of booleans around which might conflict
<larsu> and you never find out which one was specified last
<larsu> man, this really is a bad api
<larsu> desrt: I know, patches welcome
 * larsu stops ranting already
<desrt> i added a 'bsd mode' to goption
<desrt> aka posixly-correct mode
<larsu> how does that differ?
<desrt> if you do this:
<desrt> ./mycmd -x foo -y
<desrt> then it stops at "foo" and treats the rest as filenames
<desrt> including the -y
<desrt> which can be repurposed for git-style commands by treating the filename stuff as 'the rest' and invoking a second time with the options of the subcommand
<pitti> seb128, Laney: gnome-terminal in bzr is working fine for me
<desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723160
<ubot5> Gnome bug 723160 in general "GOption: add strict posix mode" [Normal,New]
<desrt> yup -- never got committed
<pitti> Laney: I documented dropping these two patches, forward-ported the LP: # one, and added the patch for the cwd issue
<Laney> pitti: cool, looking forward to V
<larsu> desrt: right, but that still leaves too much work for the application
<seb128> pitti, k
<desrt> larsu: i disagree
<pitti> Laney: NB I kept 3.12.2 for now, as 3.14 needs a merge of vte (0.3.8)
<seb128> pitti, thanks for the work
<desrt> you need to pick the subcommand first before you know what you want to do anyway
 * Laney nods
<desrt> larsu: reviews welcome on that bug....
<pitti> seb128: yay for the last item in my ~/.gconf gone except for chrome :)
<pitti> but aside from merging vte, updating g-t from 3.12 to 3.14 should be reasonably easy
<Laney> did the profile migration work properly?
<larsu> desrt: why do you need a posixly correct?
<pitti> Laney: yeah; I maded changes in 3.6 (background color, font, etc.), dist-upgraded, restarted g-t, and everywhing was correct
<Laney> great
<desrt> larsu: consider git for example... it has arguments to the global thing (--git-dir for example) and separately arguments to subcommands like git clean -xdf or whatever
<desrt> so consider:
<desrt> git --git-dir=foo clean -xdf
<desrt> you want to be able to parse the --git-dir=foo and leave the "clean -xdf" unmodified
<desrt> once you see "clean" you can then parse for the subcommand and get the -xdf handled
<desrt> if you don't do the posixally-correct parsing then the -xdf will get sucked up in the first pass
<larsu> fair enough (even though it seems like quite an edge case)
<larsu> I'll review your patch
<desrt> it's not an edge case: it's precisely the feature that you were complaining about being missing :p
<desrt> it also happens to be the expected behaviour on BSD
<desrt> (or if you set POSIXALLY_CORRECT on GNU)
<larsu> desrt: it's not what I was complaining about. It enables a feature (global and command-specific options) for a feature I was complaining about (no proper support for commands)
<desrt> i'm not sure how you could possibly have a better API for that
<desrt> i don't want to feed the global information about every possibly subcommand into the parser at the start
<desrt> i want to first discover the subcommand and then do the options only for that subcommand
<desrt> by its natures that involves two passes...
<desrt> *nature
<larsu> but that messes up the help message goptioncontext spits out
<desrt> how?
<desrt> xxx --help : shows help for toplevels
<desrt> xxx foo --help: shows help for 'foo' subcommand
<larsu> desrt: of course, but you can't let it generate the xxx --help, because it doesn't label things right
<larsu> desrt: which is why gdbus prints it's own message there
<larsu> I'm not saying doing these kinds of things is impossible, just that it is hard
<desrt> so let's get this patch lined up and rewrite one of our subcommand tools
<desrt> and see what issues pop up
 * larsu is up for that
<larsu> desrt: in fact, I want a new gdbus, for a couple of reasons:
<desrt> commandline parsing is just so very boring :p
<larsu> (1) it's UI is really bad (--dest?)
<larsu> (2) it's output could be pretty-printed and syntax highlighted
<desrt> we should invent some quasi-uri scheme
<larsu> (3) monitor doesn't monitor anything but signals
<desrt> session://ca.desrt.ca/ca/desrt/dconf or so
<larsu> I thought about that, but dismissed for another thing to learn
<desrt> ya... monitor is bad
<desrt> we should fix that
<desrt> when i find myself using dbus-monitor instead you know there is a problem
<larsu> I'd much prefer: gdbus call [-e] ca.desrt.dconf /ca/desrt/dconf ca.desrt.dconf.SomeMethod
<larsu> desrt: ya...
<desrt> anyway.... feel free to work on this area with my blessings :)
<desrt> i don't expect to have a lot of time for it unfortunately
<larsu> thanks, same here
<desrt> but if we could get that posixly-correct patch in at least i'd be happy about that
<larsu> we could do a session on the plane
<desrt> we should try to get seats together
<desrt> i can sleep on your shoulder
<larsu> sit next to you? nah
<larsu> :P
<desrt> pitti is on our flight too, eh?
<larsu> is he? Nice!
<desrt> too bad they don't have those cool little rooms like on the train
<larsu> they do
<desrt> too bad they don't have them in 2nd class :p
<larsu> just not on every plane, and they're something like $15,000
 * desrt had a private room right at the front of the train with a view through the driver's front window yesterday
<desrt> they give you free candy when you're in 1st
<larsu> meanwhile, we have the "we should get rid of drivers" discussion again
<larsu> in light of all the recent strikes
<desrt> oh.  those kinds of drivers :)
<desrt> strikes in situations like this are hilarious
<larsu> situations like this?
<desrt> when someone's job could be replaced by a machine
<desrt> and they strike
<larsu> but, moar money!
<larsu> darkxst: where again did you get the idle monitor from? Current g-s-d seems to get one called gnome-idle-monitor (instead of gsd-) from libgnome-desktop
<Laney> larsu: It comes from mutter (3.10, I believe)
<Laney> that's what does the idle monitoring for shell, and gnome-desktop calls into that using dbus
<larsu> Laney: weird. thanks
<Laney> I think it's part of de-Xification
<larsu> maybe we should have that in compiz as well then?
<larsu> oh wait...
<darkxst> larsu, yes as Laney said, idle-monitor was moved into mutter and abstracted so gnome-desktop doesn't have any deps on X
<darkxst> then mutter has various backends for X, wayland etc
<larsu> darkxst: got it. The idle monitor code in mutter seems to have changed a lot
<larsu> darkxst: I was about to backport my changes there, but I think that doesn't make much sense
<darkxst> larsu, right, and its a bit tangled up in other libs as well, but maybe the monitors ref could be useful
<darkxst> g-s-d still calls via gome-desktop so the gsd-cursor snippet probably doesnt
<larsu> right, I just noticed that as well
<darkxst> (maybe?)
<Laney> darkxst: did you check your gnome-session change?
<Laney> I don't think that shell is right
<Laney> anyway lemme fix and upload
<darkxst> Laney, yes I tested but seems I pushed an older branch
<darkxst> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~darkxst/gnome-session/lp1381297 is what I tested
<Laney> blerg
<Laney> evince bumped the required gtk from 3.12 to 3.14 between .0 and .1
<seb128> Laney, well, they already required 3.13, they just forgot to update the configure
<seb128> see the revert of gesture use patch I added
<Laney> blerg!
<Laney> fixed it to use GTK_CHECK_VERSION
<seb128> what's the point?
<seb128> we build our evince with a known gtk, when we update gtk we drop the patch
<seb128> or do you want upstream to have the ifdef cases and lower the requirement?
<Laney> not for the gesture stuff, the new patch in .1
<Laney> it's trivial to do
<seb128> k
<seb128> still what's the point? they don't support GTK 3.12 due to the gesture api use which is > 3.13
<Laney> it's not for forwarding
<Sweetsha1k> hmmm, my firefox on trusty just killed itself after hanging on a flash player fail (vs. youtube, which should be somewhat sane). After coming back, it lost all passwords ...
 * Laney goes to the cafe for lunch, biab
<seb128> Laney, k, enjoy lunch!
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, instance still running locking your profile?
<seb128> or talk to chrisccoulson, he might be able to help you
<seb128> do you room with him next week? ;-)
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: no, Ill room with the guy who will say: *shrugs* just use chromium ;)
<Sweetsha1k> seb128: also: no, can be a locked profile. E.g. my cockies, extensions etc. are all still there. just the passwords are gone
<seb128> weird
<seb128> there might still be a file on disk that you might be able to copy over
<seb128> dpm, hey, string translation question for you ;-)
<seb128> dpm, do you know if there is a standard way to deal with several singular/plural forms in one string?
<seb128> dpm, like "copy %d folder(s) and %d directory/ies"
 * dpm thinks about it
<larsu> don't we have ngettext for these kinds of strings?
<dpm> seb128, hm , I'm afraid I don't know, I've never come across that, and I can't think of the best way to handle those. I think perhaps rephrase it so that it can be done in 2 sentences?
<seb128> dpm, I think we need code cases
<seb128> larsu, no, ngettext is for one argument
<seb128> larsu, e.g "copy %d folder" "copy %d folders"
<seb128> singular/plural
<seb128> but if you have 2 arguments I don't think it can mix 1 being singular and 2 being plural
<seb128> and all possible combinaison
<seb128> copy 3 folders and 1 file
<seb128> copy 3 folders and 2 files
<seb128> copy 1 folder and 6 files
<seb128> etc
<larsu> you could split the string
<seb128> split how?
<larsu> but there's probably some weird languge for which that doesn't work
<seb128> or you mean change the design, reword?
<larsu> seb128: no, have two translatable string that you concatenate
<seb128> like "copy %d folder" + "and %d files"
<seb128> yeah
<larsu> hehe, ya
<larsu> (had the same example typed)
<seb128> what if you need to change the order or words in some locales?
<seb128> I don't think that works
<larsu> yeah this is what I meant - it probably won't work for some language
<seb128> I can do a complex
<larsu> the alternative is to have 9 translatable strings :-/
<larsu> or just do what you proposed
<seb128> if n_files = 1 & n_folder > 1 string =
<seb128> n_files > 1 & n_folder > 1, string =
<seb128> etc
<larsu> seb128: all 9 cases?
<larsu> poor translators
<seb128> I don't count 9
<seb128> but 3
<seb128> files = plural
<seb128> folder = plural
<seb128> both = plural
<seb128> or none
<larsu> 0,0 - 0,1 - 0,n - 1,0 - 1,1 - 1,n - n,0 - n,1 - n,n
<seb128> 0,1 and 0,n are one case
<seb128> it's "copy %d files" in ngettext
<seb128> and 0,0 doesn't exist
<seb128> it's a non copy
<seb128> but yeah, then you still get quite some cases :-/
<larsu> that can't be, that's even wrong in english: "copy 1 files"
<seb128> no, ngettext is
<larsu> but yeah, cross out (0,0) :)
<seb128> "copy %d file", "copy %d files", n_files
<seb128> one string with singular/plural forms
<seb128> but you can indeed count that as 2 strings
<larsu> right, but you also have the cases where you only copy directories or only files, no?
<seb128> yeah
<larsu> ah, now I understand
<larsu> sorry
<seb128> to be fair that code already sucks
<seb128> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/gallery-app/trunk/view/head:/rc/qml/EventsOverview.qml#L67
<seb128> it already has the 9 (or rather 8) strings
<larsu> uh oh
<seb128> it's just not using ngettext in the plural cases
<seb128> so I guess I can just
<seb128> -i18n.tr("Delete %1 photos")
<seb128> +i18n.tr("Delete %1 photo", "Delete %1 photo", organicEventView.selection.selectedPhotosCount)
<seb128> ups
<seb128> the second arg misses a "s"
<larsu> I guess, yes
<seb128> larsu, dpm: thanks for the discussion
<seb128> that feels suboptimal but I guess it's the only option
<seb128> out of changing the wording
<dpm> seb128, np, sorry I couldn't help more
<seb128> nw!
<mterry> Sweetshark, so libixion -- how do you want to proceed?  I like split packages in general, but not splitting it for 14.10 seemed like an option
<Sweetshark> mterry: personally, I would go for libreoffice shipping its own bundled versions and not doing any releases of liborcus/libixion outside of that at all. At least not as long there is no clearcut request for that.
<mterry> Sweetshark, does anyone use liborcus today?
<Sweetshark> mterry: I am not aware of any users of liborcus besides libreoffice.
<Sweetshark> mterry: did you see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2014-October/038510.html ?
<mterry> Sweetshark, yes.  The libixion part was interesting
<mterry> Sweetshark, it sounds like it's easiest just to punt this for now.  But I like when we can just piggyback on Debian
<Sweetshark> mterry: yes.
<mterry> Sweetshark, commented in MIR bug
<Sweetshark> mterry: thanks!
<l3on> Please, backport these patch: https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/commit/bde4e863579f05368661347bfaf55e0480e4555c
<l3on> https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/commit/60cd7076cf885cbc421babfba44c9081ded3ad78
<l3on> they are useful for have a '.csd' class on the windows CSDed
<seb128> l3on, can you open a bug about that and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors?
<l3on> seb128, sure
<seb128> thanks
<l3on> seb128, done https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1381546
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1381546 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Please backport patches to add '.csd' class to CSDed windows" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> l3on, thanks
<seb128> larsu, ^ want to review that?
<seb128> it's for next cycle anyway
<seb128> so no need to be today
<seb128> it might not be needed if we update gtk early in the cycle
<l3on> I think it should be better have them now... they are really necessary to distinguish windows CSDed in themes..
<seb128> well, we don't have proper csd support in unity in utopic
<seb128> so I doubt theming makes a difference
<seb128> that's work for next cycle
<seb128> no?
<l3on> what about non-unity desktops?
<seb128> like?
<l3on> gnome ?
<seb128> they are on 3.12 and I don't think their theme is making use of those classes?
<l3on> well I need those patch for my ubuntu-themes branch which adds support to CSD windows.. but without that patch I can't recognize which windows using GTKHEader bar have been patched in Ubuntu to use Unity borders (like Nautilus) .. that's all.
<seb128> k
<seb128> well I don't say it's not useful
<seb128> it's just that it's late in the cycle for such changes
<seb128> better to SRU that
<seb128> it's not that important for the iso itself
<seb128> imho
<larsu> seb128: will do
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> dpm, larsu, in fact the several cases doesn't work either :/
<larsu> why not?
<seb128> you can't do "delete %1 photos and %2 videos" in cases
<seb128> some locales have different cases for n=5 or =10 or between 10 and 20
<seb128> you can't have a combinaison of photos = 5, video = 2
<larsu> and ngettext supports those?
<seb128> well, if you see what I mean
<seb128> yes
<seb128> but for 1 argument
<larsu> right
<seb128> you do "copy %d files"
<seb128> and it spill the cases for your locales
<larsu> so basically this is impossible because of combinatorical explosion
<seb128> like [1] [2] [5] [others]
<larsu> maybe concatenating the strings wasn't the worst idea then?
<seb128> but it doesn't do it on substrings, or combinaisons for 2 words
<seb128> yeah, I don't see a better way around
<larsu> we could make mpt eat his hat and do something like: Do you want to delete the following things?
<larsu> * %d files
<larsu> * %d folders
<mpt> I was just looking at the relevant part of the gettext manual an hour ago
<Laney> I don't think gettext can do it
<Laney> concatenating is a bad idea
<larsu> mpt: I was joking and if I weren't, I hope you have a hat made out of chocolate
<larsu> or something equally tasty
<larsu> Laney: why? Are there languages that switch the order of terms in "X and Y"?
<mpt> larsu, https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#Special-cases
<mpt> wait, wrong section
<Laney> I don't know all languages in the world, sorry
<larsu> Laney: you seem to know that concatenating is a bad idea, though
<seb128> Laney, contenating sucks but it's the only option
<seb128> that might work
<seb128> Laney, we can also give translator comment for both halfs "that's the first/second part of that sentence"
<seb128> and let them trick the 2 subparts
<Laney> what if you have to put something in the first part depending on the second one?
<seb128> you are screwed
<seb128> but I think it's less likely than have one sentence with %1 photos and %2 videos
<seb128> and %1 and %2 being e.g 2 and 5 which are different forms in russian
<seb128> have->having
<seb128> Laney, if you have a better suggestion I'm open to it though, just can't think of any
<seb128> (out of changing the design)
<seb128> (which is not up to me)
<larsu> i18n is a bitch
<larsu> seb128: I'm fine taking those csd patches. They're very unintrusive
<seb128> larsu, thanks, can you write that on the bug?
<seb128> l3on, ^
<larsu> seb128: it's a tad late for this cycle though, no?
<seb128> larsu, I was suggesting to SRU those
<seb128> larsu, so no release surprise
<larsu> don't know if they're that important
<larsu> but really, they won't break anything
<larsu> ah, okay
<seb128> larsu, yeah, me neither, but read backlog, l3on needs them
<seb128> larsu, so I'm open to discuss SRU
<seb128> let's see
<larsu> seb128: ah okay. fine by me. are you okay with just a comment?
<seb128> larsu, yes, danke
<l3on> ok thanks .. I see what you mean.. a SRU has more sense since we are so close to the release day ... just do not forget about that! :P :D
<larsu> l3on: (a) seb128 doesn't forget and (b) just reping us if we should ;)
<seb128> l3on, to be fair I'm still not convinced that csd is that important in utopic since we don't have proper support for it, neither in our default desktop or theme and we kept apps away from it mostly
<seb128> we want proper support in for next cycle though
<seb128> so those gtk changes, unity support, theme improvements, etc are going to land then
<larsu> I agree
<larsu> (for the record)
<l3on> no problem then o/
<Laney> seb128: does something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/8565292/ work?
<larsu> Laney: this might have the same ordering problems as concatenating, no?
<Laney> not sure
<seb128> larsu, it's one string though, so less confusing
<larsu> that's true
<Laney> xnox: happyaron/FJKong: would that ^ work in chinese/russian?
<FJKong> Laney: what is this?
<Laney> Translating a string with two count variables
<Laney> ngettext only supports you giving one
<seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8565334/ ?
<Laney> oh my god
<seb128> ups
<seb128> sorry
<seb128> forgot .arg()
<seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8565347/
<seb128> BAH
<seb128> I should read before copying
<Laney> isn't it ...
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8565354/
<seb128> that one should do!
<Laney> I think you can remove the last else case and have that one level out
<Laney> but that's my idea, yeah
<seb128> Laney, thanks
<seb128> Laney, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/gallery-app/translations-use-ngettext/+merge/238456 if you want to comment
<Laney> ok, will do
<seb128> thanks
<Laney> tkamppeter: this s-c-p upload removes packagekit installation support
<Laney> why not port to the dbus api?
<tkamppeter> Laney, this was broken anyway, especially it tried to install a package named "samba-client" (probably Red Hat's name) and not "smbclient". It is also broken already for longer time and also discovered now, meaning that not many people hit it. As soon as upstream does the DBus API way I can put it in as SRU.
<tkamppeter> Laney, and otherwise this package fixes a lot of Python3 transition bugs.
<Laney> smbclient Provides: samba-client
<Laney> Don't you want to work on the port?
<tkamppeter> Laney, I have written a small shell script to replace gpk-install-package-name, calling
<tkamppeter> sudo gdbus call --session --dest org.freedesktop.PackageKit --object-path /org/freedesktop/PackageKit --method org.freedesktop.PackageKit.Modify.InstallPackageNames 0 '["samba-client"]' "hide-finished,show-warnings"
<tkamppeter> through gksu.
<Laney> packagekit has gi bindings so you shouldn't need to call out to a script
<tkamppeter> Laney, problem is that this D-Bus method does not recognize provides, it simply does not find samba-client.
<tkamppeter> Laney, does packagekit have a resolver for provides?
<Laney> Don't know, but if that's the only problem we can manage a patch to use our package name :)
<tkamppeter> Laney, OK, will make it installing smbclient properly. Until when do I have time due to tomorrow's Final Freeze?
<Laney> I could accept this one on the basis that it's already broken if you're going to work on the real fix
<Laney> thanks!
<tkamppeter> Laney, OK.
<tkamppeter> Laney, if I do not get around with it tomorrow, I will put it out as SRU as soon as me or upstream fixes it.
<Laney> Right, I just don't want to wait an indeterminate amount of time if possible
<tkamppeter> Laney, you could accept the current package as it is a fix for the other bugs and has no regressions, even replacing the crash caused by the missing gpk-install-package-name replaced by skipping package installation and later, perhaps tomorrow, I will do the real fix, which will come as SRU if after release.
<Laney> Yes, I did accept it because you said you were going to work on it, which is good enough for me
<Laney> thanks
<tkamppeter> Laney, thanks/
<Masternoob> hey i just tried the daily image on my eepc t91mt but i just get a black screen with the cursor showing...i want to log a bug but i need some help to provide useful information...where do i find the needed logfiles and what information do you need?
<Masternoob> :/
<SonikkuAmerica> So... latest current image run in VBox causes the host system's kernel to panic, is there a bug filed?
<Masternoob> can someone tell me where to find the unity 8 logfile?
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-16
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<happyaron> morning!
<larsu> hi guys
<happyaron> seems upload notification email is broken.
<seb128> happyaron, hey! you mean the ones you get when you dput something to the archive?
<happyaron> yup
<seb128> larsu, desrt, could one of you look at bug 1381804?
<ubot5> bug 1381804 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "whoopsie test failure since glib2.0 2.41.2-1 uploaded" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1381804
<desrt> seb128: i'll take a peek
<seb128> desrt, thanks
<seb128> desrt, it hits a "g_main_loop_quit: assertion 'g_atomic_int_get (&loop->ref_count) > 0' failed"
<seb128> I've an i386 install/can reproduce if you need info
<seb128> desrt, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/whoopsie/trunk/view/head:/src/tests/test_monitor.c#L125
<larsu> desrt: let me know if you need help
<seb128> the new indicator headers on the phone are nice looking!
<desrt> seb128: only on i386?
<seb128> desrt, bugs states on !amd64
<seb128> desrt, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whoopsie/0.2.38
<desrt> seb128: was just getting there :)
<desrt> first theory: testcase is doing something evil :)
<seb128> desrt, so yeah, arm, ppc, i386
<seb128> yeah, that's possible
<seb128> something that used to work with old glib and still work on amd64 for some reason
<seb128> but fixing the testcase is a valid fix ;-)
<chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, I only just noticed the new headers
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey! they feel nice, don't you think?
<seb128> chrisccoulson, how are you btw? ;-)
<chrisccoulson> yeah, they're much better than before
<chrisccoulson> I'm good thanks, how are you?
<seb128> I'm good, thanks
<seb128> larsu, would you fancy looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1381897 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1381897 in evince (Ubuntu) "Evince will not zoom in with shortcut key in 14.10 Release Candidate?" [Low,Incomplete]
<larsu> seb128: sure
<seb128> larsu, I think that's something you fixed in the distro patched version of evince we had but that seems buggy in current upstream
<seb128> larsu, thanks
<seb128> larsu, ctrl-shift-+ vs ctrl-+
<larsu> seb128: right, we added <ctrl>= or something for those users
<seb128> larsu, maybe you can put a patch upstream up for review, that does that?
<desrt> seb128: don't see any mention of atomics in the report
<seb128> desrt, that's the output from running the test manually on my box
<seb128> I guess the make check run eats stderr
<desrt> ** (./test_monitor:9220): WARNING **: Expected file /tmp/whoopsie-test-SLNTNX/fake.uploaded doesn't exist.
<desrt> seems like this is the original complaint.... i wonder if you're seeing something different again
<seb128> no
<seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/186966939/buildlog_ubuntu-utopic-armhf.whoopsie_0.2.38_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<seb128> " /whoopsie/callback-never-triggered: [04:53:09] Could not read directory (2): /fake
<seb128> OK
<seb128>  /whoopsie/callback-triggered-once:
<seb128> (./test_monitor:7527): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_main_loop_quit: assertion 'g_atomic_int_get (&loop->ref_count) > 0' failed
<seb128> Trace/breakpoint trap"
<seb128> desrt, see how the could not read gives an OK
<seb128> desrt, that's the buildlog from armhf
<seb128> well, maybe it's a different issue, but the one that current fails the build is the one I'm seeing locally
 * desrt grabs i386 iso
<desrt> don't have my VM party when i'm not at home :)
<larsu> desrt: ask seb128 to let you ssh into his machine :P
<seb128> desrt has ssh access to porter box
<seb128> Debian ones at least I think
<desrt> i do!?
<desrt> oh right.... from ages ago
<desrt> i bet i have a new ssh key since then :)
<desrt> i think it will be faster to download the iso :p
<larsu> seb128: I was kidding...
<desrt> code in this test is suspicious
<seb128> larsu, I'm not, I ssh to porter box quite often for debugging, easier that vms
<willcooke> morning
<seb128> hey willcooke, how are you?
<larsu> hi willcooke
<willcooke> o/
<Laney> yo
<Laney> there were no pips at 9am just now on radio 4
<Laney> so my morning routine is RUINED
<willcooke> WHAT?
<Laney> seriously
<Laney> we're probably being invaded or something
<willcooke> Wasn't that some secret signal for WW3?
<willcooke> glad I'm getting out of this country tomorrow morning.  It's going to down the pan
<larsu> Laney: morning :)
<Laney> hey larsu
<Laney> how's it going
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> willcooke, flying to Washington tomorrow?
<willcooke> seb128, yeah, made the flights about 1/2 the price
<seb128> weird
<Laney> hey seb128
<seb128> or are you coming back on friday evening or saturday?
<willcooke> seb128, Friday evening
<seb128> k
<Laney> that's probably just the saturday rule
<seb128> yeah, saturday night rule
<seb128> though it should have been cheap on saturday as well
<seb128> just not on sunday
<willcooke> I dont get that rule. Is it some kind of tourist trap, to make you spend more money?
<seb128> willcooke, no, it's what makes business people different from tourists
<willcooke> ahh, kk
<seb128> willcooke, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday-night_stay
<willcooke> ha - I should have known there'd be a Wikipedia page
<seb128> :-)
<willcooke> seb128, can we work through that Gtk stuff this morning?  I'll document it as well.  Squeeze another blog post out ;)
<seb128> willcooke, sure
<seb128> let me take my test laptop
<willcooke> seb128, shall we do it over IRC?  If so, perhaps a side-channel?
 * larsu overheard something about gtk stuff
<seb128> willcooke, I think it's going to be a 3 lines IRC discussion
<willcooke> oh sweet
<willcooke> let's do it here then?
<seb128> just need to check again the magic
<seb128> yes
<seb128> larsu, having gtk apps listed in the unity8 dash on desktop-next
<seb128> larsu, so you can run e.g gedit
<larsu> we don't?
<seb128> no
<seb128> because no backend
<larsu> doesn't it use the same setting as unity7's dash?
<larsu> oh
<seb128> so we didn't want to list something not working
<larsu> right
<seb128> no
<seb128> the issue is that they didn't want to list tons of non working stuff
<seb128> like x-apps, java, gtk, etc
<seb128> so they went with a whitelist approach
<seb128> well "whitelist"
<larsu> that makes a lot of sense for now
<seb128> some new key in the .desktop
<seb128> right
<seb128> result is that e.g gedit is not listed
<seb128> so you need manual hack to use it
<seb128> willcooke wants to know the hack
<Laney> there's already a "GTK" desktop file category
<Laney> FWIW
<seb128> Laney, yeah, but Unity8 doesn't use that atm
<Laney> I'm sure not
<Laney> If that works it's better than modifying tons of desktop files though
<seb128> right
<Laney> it's at least vaguely upstreamable
<seb128> except if they want to make sure to not list buggy softwares
<seb128> which they were leaning toward
<Laney> good luck with that
<seb128> well, the idea was "add the key to the .desktop if it has been tested/confirmed to work"
<Laney> sounds scalable and maintainable
<seb128> </irony> :p
<willcooke> this is "only" a quick hack so we can demo to Jane
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, we are discussing futur/proper solutions there
<seb128> not the demo
<willcooke> ahh
<willcooke> kk
<willcooke> in which case...
<willcooke> carry on
<willcooke> ;)
<seb128> willcooke, so, I think you just need to add "X-Ubuntu-Touch=true" to your .desktop
<seb128> willcooke, try adding that to /usr/share/applications/gedit.desktop and restart your unity8 session
<willcooke> will do...
 * willcooke install gedit first 
<willcooke> ;)
<Laney> oh I should unbrick my phone
<willcooke> would it "work" for xchat-gnone too?
<Laney> 285 was not good
<seb128> Laney, did you wait for a while?
<Laney> like 60 minutes
<Laney> I forgot about it :p
<Laney> also there's some posts on the ubuntu-phone list
<seb128> willcooke, worth trying, but I think that had issues due to some widgets/xorg use
<willcooke> ack
<seb128> Laney, k, complain to ogra then!:
<ogra_> hey ... that were slangasek and cjwatson who played with utopic :P
<willcooke> seb128, done - it appears in the list, but just crashes
<seb128> willcooke, xchat or gedit?
<willcooke> seb128, geofft
<willcooke> oops sorry geoff
<willcooke> seb128, gedit
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> works on my machine
<geofft> aw man, I wanna be a text editor
<seb128> well, let me update before claiming that
<willcooke> erk
<willcooke> seb128, stop!
 * seb128 stops
<Laney> (hammer time)
<willcooke> seb128, now I cant even get lightdm to start
 * Laney dances
<seb128> shrug
<willcooke> after a reboot
<willcooke> seb128, dont want you to break your machine too
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> best time to brick your laptop
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> before travelling!
<willcooke> seb128, I'll upgrade everything and try again
<seb128> well, that's a test machine, I'm happy to brick it
<seb128> so I can help debugging
 * seb128 upgrades
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> seb128,  dist-upgrade and I'm back with a GUI
<willcooke> seb128, also Store seems to be working now
<seb128> nice!
<willcooke> seb128, still cant get gedit to load
<willcooke> seb128, where should I look for logs?
<seb128> willcooke, .cache/upstart/unity8.log
<seb128> willcooke, sorry, mine is still dist-upgrade, disk is sloooow, I should change it as well ;-)
<willcooke> seb128, looking at the logs
<willcooke> seb128, bah - nothing obvious in the log:  http://pastebin.com/vnqdh10a
<seb128> willcooke, to me it looks like the recent mir updates made the gtk-mir backend stop working
<willcooke> arse
<willcooke> oh well, so be it
<seb128> willcooke, there is a "application-legacy-geditmir-.log" with a "gdk_mir_event_source_queue_event: code should not be reached"
<seb128> willcooke, somebody for robert_ancell to look at, maybe tomorrow
<willcooke> cool
<willcooke> I'll drop him a line, thanks seb128
<seb128> willcooke, I was about to reply to the gtk-mir email, I can do that if you want
<seb128> or you do it, that works too ;-)
<willcooke> seb128, oh, if you could that would probably be better than me saying "it won't go - I have no idea what I'm doing"
<willcooke> :D
<seb128> willcooke, ok, doing so
<willcooke> thanks
<seb128> willcooke, how does that look?
 * willcooke reads
<willcooke> Laney, is the start up disk creator something you'd still like to work on next cycle?
<willcooke> seb128,  excellent, thank you
<seb128> willcooke, yw!
<Laney> larsu: https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/whoopsie/source/+merge/238539
<larsu> Laney: thanks! approved
<larsu> (can't top-approve)
<Laney> cheers
 * Laney uploads
<Laney> willcooke: oops, forgot to reply, yes I think so
<willcooke> Laney, great - I'll include it in the plans we produce next week, but if I forget - poke me.
<larsu> oops, linked the wrong bug
<Laney> w00t, new unity
<seb128> speaking of unity and keybindings
<seb128> is ctrl-alt-L still working for others?
<Laney> it changed to super-l for me for some reason
<seb128> both are supposed to work no?
<Laney> are they?
<seb128> I though we said it was not acceptable to stop supporting the legacy combo and had both working
<seb128> bregma, Trevinho ^?
<seb128> Laney, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/7.1.2+14.04.20140214.1-0ubuntu1
<Laney> seems weird to have a random keybinding not exposed in the ui
<seb128> "  * Adds Super+L to lock the screen, while keeping the older shortcut
<seb128>     around in g-s-d (Ctrl+Alt+L). (LP: #830709)"
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 830709 in gnome-settings-daemon "Keyboard shortcut - Unity should also use Super-L to lock screen by default" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830709
<seb128> or did g-s-d change the default in the 3.12 update?
<Laney> could be
<larsu> ctrl+alt+l still works for me
<bregma> wasn't a Unity change that removed that key sequence, it was working for me not too long ago
<bregma> doesn't work for me now
<seb128> -      <default>'&lt;Control&gt;&lt;Alt&gt;l'</default>
<seb128> +      <default>'&lt;Super&gt;l'</default>
<seb128> indeed
<seb128> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/186130738/gnome-settings-daemon_3.8.6.1-0ubuntu15_3.12.2-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
<seb128> I guess we should add an override to ubuntu-settings
 * seb128 does that
<larsu> seb128: why does it wotrk for me then?
<seb128> Laney, ^ sounds ok to you?
<Laney> -      <default>'&lt;Control&gt;&lt;Alt&gt;l'</default>
<Laney> +      <default>'&lt;Super&gt;l'</default>
<Laney> oh yeah
<Laney> you already pasted that
<seb128> larsu, because you went to g-c-c since you installed and did ctrl-alt-l in there one day
<seb128> larsu, and it's in your user settings since*
<Laney> that's probably alright I suppose
<larsu> can't remember, but I'm getting older, so might be
<seb128> larsu, well, it's enough that you might have tested a bug to see if the keybinding change was working or something
<seb128> larsu, gsettings get org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.media-keys screensaver & reset & get
<larsu> seb128: indeed, it's set to primary+alt+l
 * larsu doesn't reset. muahah
<seb128> lol
<Laney> I like super-l better
<Laney> in your FACE ctrl alt
<larsu> Laney: I actually like super+l better too. In theory. Good luck explaining that to my fingers
<Laney> reset the key :)
<larsu> I'll try. let's see how that goes
<larsu> probably results in me losing my private key in DC
<seb128> yeah, I had a couple of "screen didn't lock" incidents
<seb128> Laney, want to cherrypick https://bug738625.bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=288667 on top of your evince upload? that's 1381897
<Trevinho> Laney, seb128 they should both work...
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, right, we figured out the issue, it's the g-s-d update, it relies on g-s-d to catch ctrl-alt-l while compiz does super-l
<Trevinho> seb128: yes, I've just read that as well
<Trevinho> seb128: in fact we just rely on that for ctrl+alt+l
<Trevinho> while unity does handle super+l with his key settings
<Laney> seb128: after it gets review
<seb128> Laney, not trusting larsu?!
<seb128> ;-)
<larsu> right on, I don't trust myself either
<Laney> system("keylogger");
<larsu> can we get a new epiphany next cycle?
<seb128> larsu, does it use gtkheaderbar?
<seb128> can we easily add back normal decoration without having a weird UI?
<larsu> it would be weird in that case I guess
<larsu> because they have the title / locationbar switcher thing
<Laney> it's not default, don't see why we would block there
<larsu> ya, and maybe next cycle we'll be able to actually resize windows with csds
<seb128> Laney, do you know why it was not updated this cycle?
<seb128> but yeah, I think it's fine updating
<seb128> I doubt many people use !firefox|chrom* anyway
<Laney> no idea
<seb128> those who do can deal with csd weirdnesses
<larsu> :)
<larsu> I just want to make fastmail a webapp
<larsu> and the current one doesn't seem to work at all anymore
<larsu> sluggish scrolling
<Laney> and indeed we should make csd work properly
<seb128> how are webapp handled?
<seb128> it's a standalone browser instance without chrome?
<larsu> Laney: still waiting on a compiz fix...
<Laney> v-cycle for real guys!
<larsu> seb128: yes, exactly. It puts a .desktop file into you .local
<happyaron> Laney: NUDT guys spend most of there energy on a big bid for the gov in earlier this cycle, so quite some updates flows in this week.
<happyaron> * there -> their
<Laney> happyaron: ho hum
<Laney> It means that this "new UI" gets almost no testing before the release
<happyaron> Laney: the people in charge comes: @JackYu
<GunnarHj> Hi pitti
<Laney> happyaron: It's ok, I just wanted to highlight it
<happyaron> ic
<Laney> thanks for replying
<happyaron> np
<happyaron> local smoke test shows no problem, but could be problems hidden there.
<JackYu> Laney, happyaron, I'm back.
<Laney> hi JackYu, I approved the FFe now
<Laney> I wanted to draw some attention to the lateness
<JackYu> Laney, thanks. I answered your comments just now.
<Laney> now you only have a week to fix bugs
<Laney> scary :)
<Laney> I like the new UI more, by the way :P
<JackYu> yes^
<JackYu> thanks, lol
<happyaron> Laney: and maybe a rush for PPU rights, ubuntu-kylin-sso-client.. (sry for pinging again :P)
<Laney> bad man
<Laney> happyaron: I want to try an experiment first
<Laney> (generating the ubuntukylin packageset from seeds)
<happyaron> I'm fine, :)
<Laney> happyaron: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8574321/
<Laney> I think maybe I should override chromium ...
<seb128> Laney, wdyt of http://paste.ubuntu.com/8574355/ ?
<seb128> Laney, sorry, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8574357/
<Laney> LIst?
<seb128> Laney, typo, fixed ;-)
<Laney> I think you shouldn't repeat the logic
<seb128> and otherwise?
<Laney> and use QDir::absoluteFileName to get the path instead of concatenating
<Laney> you can tell entryList to give you sorted lists too, which should be better for the final sort
<seb128> Laney, how does that work?
<willcooke> success - slides are finished
<willcooke> with the exception of didrocks
<willcooke> who will have a nice surprise on Monday morning
<Laney> soundsDir.absoluteFileName(dirList[i])
<Laney> or so
<seb128> hum
<seb128> doesn't that take a name as argument?
<seb128> can you give it a path?
<seb128> I need to prepend the /custom
<seb128> not add a filename at the end
<Laney> ?
<Laney> you list the contents of two directories
<seb128> yeah, but "absoluteFileName" is about a filename
<seb128> as the name indicate
<seb128> not about a dir
<seb128> it works if you do "dir.absolutefilename("entry")"
<Laney> don't understand
<seb128> not sure about "/some/other/dir"
<Laney> what does line 17 do?
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> I though you were speaking about
<seb128>         QDir customSoundsDir("/custom"+dirString);
<seb128> sorry
<happyaron> Laney: what about packages like youker-assistant?
<Laney> oh that's QDir customSoundsDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath(dirString), no?
<Laney> pretty sure that works
<Laney> happyaron: already in there
<happyaron> your list is only additional to the existing right?
<Laney> yep
<happyaron> cool
<seb128> Laney, with dirString = /usr/share/sounds ?
<Laney> yeah I think you can do that
<seb128> that function is weirdly named
<Laney> but try it
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Any opinion on bug #1342677?
<ubot5> bug 1342677 in im-config (Ubuntu) "Does im-config need to be displayed in menus?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1342677
<happyaron> GunnarHj: I don't think the menu is needed either
<happyaron> GunnarHj: at least for all derivatives that is using language-selector
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Right. Kubuntu would be a special case.
<GunnarHj> happyaron: And debian itself. Not very likely that they would start using l-s.
<happyaron> I think Osamu is more interesting to something like im-chooser? not sure
<GunnarHj> happyaron: What's im-chooser?
<happyaron> current IM start-up process isn't all ideal. it doesn't play well with event-driven desktops
<happyaron> GunnarHj: the Fedora approach
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Well, that's about the overall design of im-config...
<happyaron> it's already rewritten once from the old school im-switch
<happyaron> much better than before
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Yeay, you advocated its implementation at the time. :)
<happyaron> it works as designed at least, the problem for event-driven desktops are because of design. the problem in im-switch are more about the implementation.
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Ok. To be honest, the expression "event-driven" is over my head.
<happyaron> sort of upstart/systemd user session, plus some more dbus activation
<happyaron> seb128: am I correct? ^^^^^
<seb128> happyaron, about what? sorry, doing several things at the same time
<happyaron> seb128: event-driven desktop
<seb128> I don't know about the im-config specifics
<seb128> but you should be able to get whatever you need to work
<seb128> it's just a matter of finding the right events
<happyaron> GunnarHj is trying to see what does event-driven desktop means/works
<willcooke> ohnoez - didrock's site is down again, and Cloudflair isn't doing its thing
<GunnarHj> happyaron: But we have had either upstart or systemd all the time, haven't we?
<happyaron> GunnarHj: use the same way of booting system services to manage desktop sessions
<happyaron> GunnarHj: so effectively upstart/systemd is managing it
<GunnarHj> happyaron: I know we have /usr/share/upstart/sessions/im-config.conf in Ubuntu.
<happyaron> but for setting XIM, it's still required to hook into the xsession script sequence
<happyaron> and another problem is we aren't to change the variables on the fly, while im-chooser provides some degree of support (but it's not using systemd)
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Changing env. variables on the fly is a tricky one for all variables, isn't it?
<happyaron> yes I agree, but unfortunately it's that way for ages
<happyaron> better to get it changed in Mir/Unity8
<GunnarHj> Ok.
<seb128> Laney, http://paste.ubuntu.com/8574622/
<seb128> Laney, without the qWarning of course
<seb128> oh, and moving the "    QStringList soundsList;" in the if
<Laney> seb128: line 12 dirlist[i]?
<seb128> Laney, oh, yeah, thanks
<seb128> soundsDir[i] seems to work
<seb128> but it wouldn't filter things out
<seb128> Laney, otherwise looks ok to you?
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> operator[] is supposed to work
<Laney> i.e. not having dirList at all
<seb128> Laney, it does
<seb128> Laney, but as said, it wouldn't filter things out
<seb128>         soundsDir.setFilter(QDir::Files | QDir::NoSymLinks);
<seb128> it would list subdirs
<Laney> it's supposed to be the same as using entryList though
<seb128> or symlinks
<seb128> oh
<seb128> with the filter?
<seb128> let me try
<Laney> I suppose if you call it after setting the filter
<Laney> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qdir.html#operator-5b-5d
<Laney> and count() instead of size()
<seb128> Laney, .size() is what is used in the http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qstringlist.html "Iterating over the strings" example
<seb128> Laney, but I can change it
<Laney> no no
<Laney> count is on the QDir
<seb128> oh
<seb128> right
<Laney> well it's supposed to work
<seb128> but it's an uint
<seb128> let's make i one as well!
<Laney> in line 31 I would use QDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath(dirString)
<Laney> might be me being OCD
<seb128> yeah, I don't know why you insist so much on .absoluteFilePath ;-)
<seb128> it's like doing an extra type conversion to use a QDir
<seb128> and call a method on it then
<seb128> where you can concatenate 2 strings for the same result
<seb128> that code is using accountsservice, it's not like it was going to run on win32 tomorrow :-)
 * Laney twitches
<seb128> that code is using accountsservice, it's not like it was going to run on win32 tomorrow :-)
<seb128> ups
<seb128> that change leads to duplicate items
<Laney> which?
<seb128> <Laney> in line 31 I would use QDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath(dirString)
<seb128>         qWarning() << QDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath(dirString);
<seb128> 2014-10-16 18:28:39,587 - WARNING - "/usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/ringtones/"
<seb128>         qWarning() << QDir("/custom").absoluteFilePath("/usr/share");
<seb128> 2014-10-16 18:30:58,180 - WARNING - "/usr/share"
<seb128>  
<Laney> I just read something that ruins my argument
<Laney> Qt uses "/" as a universal directory separator in the same way that "/" is used as a path separator in URLs. If you always use "/" as a directory separator, Qt will translate your paths to conform to the underlying operating system.
<seb128> Laney, in any case, seems like .absoluteFilePath doesn't like directories arguments
<Laney> isn't it that /custom doesn't exist?
<Laney> try with /etc
<seb128> it does exist
<seb128> I've it with some custom sounds in it
<seb128> to make sure they are listed and working
<Laney> oh right
<Laney> remove the leading /
<seb128> "custom"?
<Laney> that makes sense
<Laney> no
<Laney> usr/share
<seb128> oh
<seb128> I'm not doing type version and then replacement, you are going to have to deal with string concat there :p
<seb128> type conversion*
<Laney> I would probably give up at this point
<Laney> put a space around the + at least? :P
<seb128> :-)
<Laney> this is like how I get annoyed if drawers aren't shut completely
<Laney> or if the curtain isn't fully closed
<Laney> orrrrrrr if the CDs aren't lined up on the shelf
 * Laney argh
<ogra_> shudder !
<Laney> ogra_: imagine the duvet isn't the right way up
<Laney> so the buttons are AT THE TOP
 * Laney screams
<ogra_> argh !!!
<ogra_> i so feel with you !
<seb128> Laney, kenvandine, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/sound-custom-ringtones/+merge/238595
<kenvandine> seb128, i'll look
<seb128> kenvandine, thanks
<Laney> seb128: 'oem customization'
<seb128> kenvandine, it's sort of important, they added a custom ringtone/sms sound in /custom and the UI was not handling those dirs, so wrong selection and no way to pick back the default sounds if you try something else
 * Laney coughs
<seb128> Laney, that comment was on the pastebin, feel free to tell me how to change it ;-)
<Laney> you wrote eom
<ogra_> that still has all three letters though
<seb128> oh
<kenvandine> seb128, so critical, but not before the image is promoted right?
<Laney> it feels weird to have /custom hardcoded like that
<Laney> but looks fine
<seb128> kenvandine, guess so
<seb128> Laney, well, it's our defined scheme, I don't think it's going to change
<Laney> I mean inside the function
<Laney> a function called listSounds taking a directory which gives you sounds from another directory
<Laney> bit weird
<Laney> but it's okay I think
<seb128> well, it's a directory and its "overlay" in some way
<seb128> implementation detail
<seb128> it's looking for the same dir under /custom
<seb128> but yeah, a bit hackish
<Laney> the alternative would be to make it take a list of directories
<Laney> oh man that's nicer
<seb128> list of directories?
<seb128> I don't think it makes a difference in practice
<Laney> not claiming it does
<seb128> I would sort of like change to look the gtk mir backend issue now
<seb128> rather than keep refactoring the settings changeset
<Laney> I already said it's okay
<seb128> yeah
<seb128> feel free to comment on the mp ;-)
<Laney> bye!
<seb128> have a good evening!
<willcooke> g/night
<SonikkuAmerica> Why is there no WPA2 Enterprise support?
<SonikkuAmerica> (in the GUI)
<SonikkuAmerica> (on Unity 8, of course)
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-17
<share> hello?
 * willcooke -> packing
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> willcooke, good luck with that!
<willcooke> seb128, :?
<willcooke> seb128, :/
<seb128> when is your flight?
<willcooke> erm,
<willcooke> I'm leaving here at 1pm
<willcooke> so I've got enough time
<willcooke> as long as I dont have to do washing first
<seb128> yeah, a bit late for that!
<desrt> pitti: the more containers talks i go to the more i become convinced that we made some sort of mistake by not having a microkernel...
<willcooke> have you been drinking desrt ?
<willcooke> ;)
<desrt> willcooke: there are a whole class of kernel problems that for years have been considered 'not really a problem' since they require root in order to do things
<desrt> but now you have root in your container for purposes of that container, and are able to exploit this whole class of bugs
<desrt> things like filesystem driver bugs
<desrt> "only root can mount filesystems, so intentionally corrupted filesystems are not a security concern"
<willcooke> hmm
<willcooke> I see the issue
<Noskcaj> Can someone plz look at https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/libgweather/bugfix/+merge/238660
<pitti> hey seb128
<seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
<seb128> Noskcaj, what about the first half of the patch, why is it not upstream?
<pitti> seb128: gut, danke! I'm in the LXC track right now, and will go back to the systemd hacking in the afternoon
<seb128> nice
<seb128> pitti, when do you fly to washington?
<Noskcaj> seb128, It is, sorry i worded it porrly
<pitti> seb128: Sunday noon, 11:40 to 15:15
<Noskcaj> *poorly
<pitti> seb128: with desrt
<seb128> pitti, k
<seb128> Noskcaj, I don't understand the "second half" part then
<pitti> seb128: but you are most likely on a different flight?
<seb128> pitti, yeah, I'm flying on saturday
<Noskcaj> We have https://git.gnome.org/browse/libgweather/commit/?h=gnome-3-12&id=89de9f95660f2fcdaf8ffc4ebe3c7c192d42f464 , but still need https://git.gnome.org/browse/libgweather/commit/?h=gnome-3-12&id=6fed603e51538c10ebdbbbda857e94b352169056
<seb128> Noskcaj, does it mean the sru which was done is incomplete/not working?
<Noskcaj> yeah
<Noskcaj> I'll make a branch for it when this is in utopic
<seb128> k
<seb128> Noskcaj, can you reply to my comment on the merge request?
<seb128> Noskcaj, ?
<seb128> Noskcaj, ...
<Laney> hey hey, happy friday!
<seb128> hey Laney, happy friday:
<seb128> !
<seb128> how are you?
<seb128> Sweetsha1k, hey, could you review https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1342175 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1342175 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "[upstream] Poor performance with find & replace with empty value on large data set" [Medium,In progress]
<Laney> oh no, debian-vote
<pitti> Laney: :( just got aware of that too
<darkxst> pitti, Laney, gnome-terminal can probably go straight to 3.14, the only problem is the alternate screen scroll patch, but I don't see how that is currently working in 3.12, vte_terminal_set_alternate_screen_scroll is just a stub
<Laney> we dropped that one
<darkxst> Laney, its still in the packaging branch
<Laney> oh yes that's just the UI
<seb128> Laney, what are they voting on?
<seb128> willcooke, thanks for the note about the calendar/meetings
<Sweetshark> seb128: already on my todo list
<seb128> Sweetshark, hey, happy friday! great
<willcooke> seb128, nw - I might be about to invite you to some more I'm afraid
<seb128> willcooke, sure, np, can you get me to "desktop" on monday afternoon?
<Sweetshark> seb128: happy friday to you too! ;) -- upstream has tagged LibreOffice 4.2.7.2 this week, so we should be able to SRU both in one turn ...
<willcooke> seb128,  that's the fella :)
<seb128> Sweetshark, great
<seb128> willcooke, ;-)
<seb128> willcooke, there is also a "desktop convergence" on tuesday
<seb128> willcooke, I guess I'm just going to come sit and listen in some of the sessions anyway
<seb128> just to know what's going on
<seb128> Laney, could you look at gtk in the utopic queue?
<Laney> I look at everything in the queue regularly :-)
<Laney> but fixing eds first
<Laney> damn those poodles
<Laney> also: https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00001.html
<seb128> Laney, well, gtk is a one liner and I wanted to maybe have it ready for willcooke before he takes off for the airport, but alright
<Laney> I'll just be 5 minutes
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> more init system fun
<seb128> "nice"
<willcooke> Laney, seb128 don't worry, my U8 laptop is packed now
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> willcooke, k, well I still would like the Mir backend to be working in utopic, and I would like the update to be available over the w.e if we want to do a demo on monday or something
<seb128> so if that can go in today still a good thing to have
<willcooke> that would be awesome!
<willcooke> but don't rush on my account
<seb128> well, I don't, I uploaded
<seb128> I just used your name to get a bumped priority for review :p
<seb128> or tried
<seb128> you just ruined that ;-)
<Laney> naughty
<Laney> I think we've provided reasonable service this freeze
<seb128> see, now Laney is downscoring me for trying to play with the system!
<seb128> yeah, I can't complain
<seb128> I more pinged as a fyi in case you didn't plan to do a review shift this morning, not because it has been waiting long
<Laney> sure
<darkxst> Laney, no the ui was already dropped
<Laney> what do you mean already?
<darkxst> 51_alternate_screen_scroll.patch
<darkxst> adds a gsettings key and calls a vte function that is a stub in 4.12 and removed in 3.14
<darkxst> ^3.12 even
<Laney> 'already' meaning in the vcs
<Laney> I'm not sure what your point is
<Laney> we obviously have to stop using that API and do the upstream thing, but I'm not sure how you call that atm
<darkxst> Laney, vcs is based on 3.12 right?
<Laney> yes
<darkxst> so that patch does nothing
<Laney> so it has to be fixed, what's your point?
<Laney> it is staged, not uploaded, nobody said it was finished
<darkxst> Laney, as I said, can go straight to 3.14, but either way that needs to be fixed
<Laney> are you offering to do it?
<darkxst> I already have a 3.14 package, but I don't know how to fix that patch
<Laney> they added a control sequence but I'm not sure how you're supposed to make use of it
<Laney> you could go ask
<Laney> I'm not hugely interested in supporting the feature
<darkxst> yes I saw that
<darkxst> I could ask but upstream are pretty grumpy with ubuntu
<pitti> Sweetshark: hm, does that "free(): invalid pointer" crash in the LO test ring a bell?
<larsu> darkxst: it's getting better. What's the problem?
<darkxst> larsu, how to send the control sequencence that does the equivalent to vte_terminal_set_alternate_screen_scroll (which is removed)
<Laney> I think it's only chpe and the others are fine to be fair
<larsu> darkxst: what's alternate screen scroll? And why do we need it but upstream doesn't?
<larsu> Laney: right
<darkxst> Laney, yeh chpe is
<darkxst> larsu, it modifies the scroll wheel behaviour for certain shell apps I think, no I idea why we need it really though
<GunnarHj> Hi Laney!
<darkxst> I would be happy to just drop it
<larsu> darkxst: if we don't know why we need it, let's drop it until someone complains with a use case...
<larsu> Laney: are you ok with that? ^
<Laney> If you read the bugs you find that people like to set it
<Laney> I don't understand why they took the escape sequence and what you're supposed to do with it and I would like to find that out
<GunnarHj> Laney: Does "NotShowIn=GNOME" refer to Ubuntu GNOME only, or is Xubuntu, Lubuntu etc. included?
<darkxst> GunnarHj, GNOME is only GNOME3 sessions
<GunnarHj> darkxst: So the answer is yes?
<darkxst> yes, so basically just gnome-shelll
<Sweetshark> pitti: /me tries to get context from backlog
<GunnarHj> darkxst: Great, thanks!
<Sweetshark> pitti: so "free(): invalid pointer" doesnt ring a bell right away here.
<pitti> Sweetshark: the LO tests, i. e. https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/utopic-adt-libreoffice/336/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/console
<Sweetshark> pitti: ah! so I dont think that is a regression. The forms_* tests are unfortunately not 100% stable, just mostly stable (IIRC e.g. debian disables them in when they run them in check on package build).
<GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin!
<GunnarHj> pitti: Two things:
<GunnarHj> pitti: Do you have two minutes to review comment #17-21 at bug #678421?
<ubot5> bug 678421 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Error message for a faulty ~/.profile script" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/678421
<GunnarHj> pitti: Are you about to release new base langpacks?
<Sweetshark> pitti: I left them in on the autopkgtests to see if there are any other issues there. On autopkgtests they dont block as much as in a check-phase in package build (which would throw away a day of libreoffice building).
<seb128> ok, need to go for some errands and lunch
<seb128> back a bit later than usual
<seb128> bbl
<pitti> Sweetshark: ack, retrying
<seb128> kenvandine, hey
<kenvandine> hey seb128
<seb128> kenvandine, do you know what's the status/plan for settings landing?
<seb128> seems like we have a bunch lines and other important fixes not lined up yet
<seb128> like ted has one for the messaging changes
<seb128> you have one for the flight mode in rtm
<kenvandine> waiting for the landings to open up again
<seb128> the custom ringtone needs to land, as apparently do some others
<seb128> you can do utopic landings
<seb128> just not rtm
<kenvandine> yeah, but i'm worried about landing in utopic first :)
<kenvandine> been bitten to many times
<seb128> ?
<kenvandine> seb128, and the critical/high landings we need, are really needed in rtm
<kenvandine> the delta
<tedg> seb128, Do you know anyone using Evo? Getting an issue with GPG signed messages.
<seb128> well, just do a landing with the rcs
<kenvandine> landings in utopic go faster than rtm
<kenvandine> so if we get a few landings in utopic
<seb128> tedg, what issue? ogra_ does, Laney has it installed (so do I)
<tedg> seb128, Also when sending the GPG signature area is full of debug messages.
<kenvandine> and then we get held up in rtm, fails qa, etc
<kenvandine> it's really hard to unwind stuff and get them in sync again
<tedg> seb128, I'm curious if I'm missing a component as I don't have GPG settings in preferences anymore either.
<seb128> kenvandine, just put "qa not needed" ;-)
<kenvandine> ha
<seb128> tedg, let me try
<seb128> tedg, what sort of issues do you have reading gpg signed emails?
<seb128> I get the banner "signature exists but require a public key"
<tedg> seb128, They never open. When I select another message it gets replaced with: "Error verifying signature: Operation was cancelled"
<seb128> or "signature valide, but impossible to verify sender"
<seb128> urg
<seb128> no, that works for me
<tedg> seb128, Do you have encryption settings in your preferences?
<seb128> trying on ubuntu-devel e.g with some emails from slangasek or pitti
<pitti> seb128: are you sure that they are from me? :-)
<seb128> pitti, :-)
<pitti> damn you gpg and your undeniable signatures
<tedg> seb128, Which evolution packages do you have installed? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8579320/
<seb128> tedg, utopic
<seb128> tedg, the settings are in the accounts' details
<seb128> like first tab of preference
<seb128> double click on an account
<seb128> bottom section
<seb128> "security"
<tedg> Ah, so those just moved.
<GunnarHj> pitti: ping?
<pitti> GunnarHj: sorry, need to run, I have a train to catch
<pitti> GunnarHj: conference, attention etc. -- can you please mail?
<GunnarHj> pitti: Sure, I can mail. Happy journey!
<ogra_> tedg, no issies here
<ogra_> *issues
<tedg> Hmm, it must be something else installed or not installed.
<tedg> Haven't been able to figure it out :-(
 * Laney is taking off now
<Laney> see some of you soon
<seb128> Laney, have a safe travel, see you in Washington!
<Laney> you too!
<seb128> Laney, when do you get there? sunday?
<ogra_> Laney, dont forget to carry a clipboard with you ... i heard that protects from certain deseases
<Laney> seb128: yeah sunday 8.30pm ish
<Laney> save me a welcome drink ;-)
#ubuntu-desktop 2014-10-18
<czajkowski> aloha
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-12
<pitti> Good morning
<Laney> hey hey
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you? did all of you make it to London?
<Laney> hey pitti, doing good thanks!
<seb128> desktopers!
<Laney> still a couple of others to arrive but mainly everybody seems here and still alive :-)
<Laney> enjoying the charming ambiance of the bluefin office now
<Laney> how are you?
<pitti> hey seb128!
<pitti> Laney: quite fine, thanks!
<seb128> pitti, howdy, how are you?
<Sweet5hark> moin!
<Laney> first day breakfast misjudging
<Laney> urghghgh
<Trevinho> seb128: we need this in ups to get proper mouse hidpi/theme updates support in compiz: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/12762083/
<Trevinho> seb128: although.... I've just noticed that it has been proposed a similar thing upstream, but marked as "needs-work" because they want WMs that uses it
<Trevinho> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/review?bug=747856&attachment=301556
<seb128> oh ok
<TheMuso> Hey guys, hope you all had safe travels.
<seb128> hey TheMuso, seems we had ;-)
<seb128> Trevinho, seems good to include, just mp the change for usd
<seb128> pitti, hey, is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=756275 (see comment #3) something known in udisk? do you have any hint to debug?
<ubot5`> Gnome bug 756275 in libgdu "segfault in g_dbus_object_get_interface" [Normal,New]
<seb128> pitti, that's quite a common segfault, seems to trigger often when trying to format devices
<CardinalFang> good morning
<seb128> CardinalFang, hey, having a new nickname?
<pitti> seb128: hm, not off-hand; indeed there seems to be some races in between all the GObjectManager stuff; in the test suite I need to re-get the GObject sometimes, and at lesat call http://udisks.freedesktop.org/docs/latest/UDisksClient.html#udisks-client-settle after formatting
<pitti> seb128: this never got debugged, though (or maybe it's the way it's supposed to be); so gdu tries udisks_client_get_object on the new partition immediately after format_sync()?
<CardinalFang> seb128: Not intentionally!
<seb128> pitti, should that bug moved to udisks/fdo then?
<seb128> not sure what gdu does
<seb128> but it doesn't do what is needed to avoid the segfault
<pitti> seb128: maybe there is one there too -- but in either case it shouldn't crash of coruse
<pitti> i. e. it might be that _get_object there should succeed, but this smells like missing error check
<pitti> seb128: (sorry, just half a brain here, deep in debugging stuff ATM)
<seb128> pitti, no worry/hurry, it just seems an annoying issue and it would be good to resolve next cycle if we can, it just that I don't know enough about udisks/gdu to be useful so I'm trying to add least triage/get the bug with details in the hands of the right people
<pitti> seb128: one thing you can certainly try is to shove a client_settle() in between the format_sync() and the get_object(), and see if that helps
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<pitti> seb128: at least the documentation says that it's meant for exactly this use case
<seb128> pitti, otherwise the format/wipefs error, doesn't happen on my amd64 machine, but does every time on the 32 bit one, could be a 32 bits issue
<pitti> seb128: ah, it's probably not using format_sync, but async, but please try it anyway to get one more piece of info
<seb128> pitti, seems there is already a such call https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-disk-utility/tree/src/disks/gducreatepartitiondialog.c#n371
<pitti> seb128: could you break on it in gdb, or add a sleep, to see if this is merely a timing issue, or whether the partition object indeed doesn't exist in udisks's brain?
<seb128> pitti, sure can, thanks for the debugging hints
<pitti> seb128: gdb might actually be nice -- if that still happens after simply waiting for 5 s or so, then you coudl run udisksctl dump to see if it exists in a separate d-bus connection
<seb128> k
<pitti> i. e. whether the problem is that it doesn't exist in udisks' brain, or there's something wrong with auto-updating the client-side object
<pitti> my gut feeling is the latter
<seb128> pitti, going to take a bit, can't debug on my machine because udisks_partition_table_call_create_partition_finish() fails
<seb128> (the wipefs error issue)
<seb128> or maybe I should start by debugging that :p
<pitti> seb128: are you trying this on an USB stick?
<seb128> yes
<pitti> seb128: you can wipe that with dd, or you could even just use "modprobe scsi_debug" to get a virtual SCSI disk
<seb128> oh, let me try the virtual one
<pitti> seb128: that's massively faster than USB of course, so you might get different timing behaviour
<pitti> but it's incredibly convenient to use ;)
<seb128> yeah, I didn't know about it
<pitti> seb128: by default it's 60 MB, if that's not enough (some file systems need more), you can try modprobe scsi_debug dev_size_mb=300
<seb128> pitti, I can only format the partition in gdu with that
<seb128> not create one
<pitti> seb128: ah, right
<pitti> seb128: it's possible, but requires some trickery with scsi_debug
<seb128> pitti, don't worry, the usb key does it fine
<seb128> and the wipefs issue is probably a real one on 32 bits
<pitti> seb128: can you reproduce the wipefs one on the CLI?
<seb128> no
<pitti> (sudo wipefs -a /dev/foo)
<seb128> no, that works
<pitti> if it works, you have a way to wipe without gdu; if it doesn't work, you have an easier reproducer
<pitti> note that running it twice might work (i. e. a failed one from gdu, and then a successful one)
<seb128> gdu/udisks complains about
<seb128> "Command-line `wipefs -a "/dev/sdb1"' exited with non-zero exit status 1: wipefs: erreurÂ : /dev/sdb1Â : Ã©chec d'initialisation de l'analyse: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type"
<seb128> e.g no such device
<seb128> but the device is there, so I guess maybe async work done in the wrong order or something
<Trevinho> seb128: for your love https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/unity-settings-daemon/export-xcursor-theme/+merge/274128
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Hi Aron, saw that you opened the im-config task at bug #1481025. Are you about to change to "xim"? I think it's important to do so, because I just noticed that "cjkv" breaks X11 compose.
<ubot5`> bug 1481025 in im-config (Ubuntu) "Keyboard shortcut for layout switching works in Unity but not in Gnome-Flashback" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481025
<robert_ancell> anpok_, Do you expect bug 1504168 to be in wily or x-series?
<ubot5`> bug 1504168 in libinput (Ubuntu) "fix handling of mx4 touch screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1504168
<seb128> larsu, bug #408903
<ubot5`> bug 408903 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Does not handle microphone mute button (KEY_MICMUTE)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/408903
<didrocks> pitti: I guess this is known, but
<didrocks> q
<didrocks> ok, thanks wall :p
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12763398/
<didrocks> apparently it does set the shutdown date contrary to previous bug
<didrocks> ($wall foo works though)
<pitti> didrocks: bug 1495178
<ubot5`> bug 1495178 in systemd (Ubuntu) "Failed to set wall message, ignoring: Message recipient disconnected from message bus without replying" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495178
<robert_ancell> larsu, it's only your opinion that the notification bubbles aren't caused by GTK+3.0? (bug 1473269)
<ubot5`> bug 1473269 in notify-osd (Ubuntu) "Wily login screen shows an all black notification bubble" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1473269
<larsu> robert_ancell: welcome to me doing bugs on a sprint :D
<larsu> (didrocks shouted "OPINION!!!")
<didrocks> thanks pitti
<didrocks> opinion?
<didrocks> onion?
<larsu> didrocks: oignon
<Laney> zut alors
<didrocks> j'ai pas ma baguette
<larsu> bibliotheque
<didrocks> bibliothÃ¨que
<Laney> ordinateur
<Laney> poisson
<Laney> PISCINE
<didrocks> Laney est sec maintenant
<Laney> triple sec
<pitti> c'est me rapelle : c'est l'heure de cours de franÃ§ais :)
 * pitti s'en vais, Ã  demain !
<pitti> "pitti s'en va"
<didrocks> bon courage pitti!
<chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how's london? :)
<seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, sunny! where are you? are you coming this week?
<chrisccoulson> seb128, I'm catching the train over tomorrow afternoon
<seb128> good
<chrisccoulson> I arrive at kings cross at ~4pm. Not sure how long it takes to get over to southwark from there
<chrisccoulson> oh, not long
<seb128> chrisccoulson, it's like 4 stops on the distric line, so 15 minutes or so
<seb128> well then 15 minutes walk to the hotel/office
<seb128> dobey, mvo, do you have any idea how much work it would be to teach software-center about clicks or snaps?
<Laney> chrisccoulson: thameslink from st pancras to blackfriars is the fastest way I think
<Laney> but tube is also not long
<seb128> shrug, forgot to write the actual changelog content to that file-roller but it got accepted anyway
<Laney> no way to tell who did it
<qengho> robert_ancell: I assigned a lightdm bug report to you and added a debdiff.
<popey> BYE EVERYONE!
<Laney> ttyl
<seb128_> pitti,
<seb128_>   udisks_client_settle (gdu_window_get_client (data->window));
<seb128_>   sleep(3);
<seb128_>   partition_object = udisks_client_get_object (gdu_window_get_client (data->window), created_partition_object_path);
<seb128_>   system("udisksctl dump > /tmp/log");
<seb128_>   g_print("%x\n", (unsigned int)partition_object);
<seb128_> trying that ^ it still segfaults
<seb128_> the "log" has sdb1
<seb128_> but the partiion_object is null and the code segfaults
<seb128_> just dumping bits of info for tomorrow and calling it a day
<seb128_> bye
 * desrt rides the train to the airport
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-13
<om26er> Hi! Java apps are not exporting their App menu to the topbar, it used to work. Do i need to install anything ?
<om26er> e.g. pycharm, android studio.
<willcooke> morning al
<willcooke> all
<Laney> HELLO
<Laney> #FIRST
<willcooke> mvo, morning.  How are you fixed for a meeting soon?  Any time better for you>?
<hikiko> hello
<seb128> willcooke, want to try https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-060 ? that's the sru for the micmute icon
<mvo> willcooke: soon will work, how soon is soon :)
<qengho> good morning
<willcooke> seb128, installing
<willcooke> mvo, robert_ancell, seb128 ->  Shall we Hangout now?  (plus anyone else who wants to talk USC/GSC/Snappy)
<robert_ancell> sure
<pitti> hey desktoppers, good morning!
<willcooke> brb
<mvo> willcooke: sure, just send me the hangout invite
<seb128> pitti, hey pitti, wie gehts?
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128 ! je vais bien, merci ! comment est Londres ?
<seb128> pitti, on a du ciel bleu Ã  Londres et c'est bien d'Ãªtre aux bureaux
<pitti> seb128: wow! il fait froid et gris ici :/
<pitti> seb128: so your udisks dump from last night is interesting
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> seb128: so it really seems the client-side udisks object doesn't catch up with changes from the daemon
<seb128> pitti, so udisks bug? want me to report a bug on bugs.fdo? what details would you need?
<pitti> seb128: mostly, a reproducer
<pitti> and of course, some minion to actually investigate this :)
<seb128> pitti, get an usb stick, delete/add partitions
<seb128> should be easy to trigger for anyone
<pitti> right; let's put it on bugzilla either way, to track this properly
<seb128> btw I get the wipefs error on my amd64 machine as well, just less frequently
<seb128> pitti, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92446 I tried to include the details of what we discussed
<ubot5`> Freedesktop bug 92446 in general "gdu segfaults due to udisks_client_get_object returning null" [Normal,New]
<desrt> popey: evil frog
<popey> desrt: I am a good frog!
<seb128> didrocks, bug #1494965
<ubot5`> bug 1494965 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "add-apt-repository crashed with IndexError in mangle_ppa_shortcut(): string index out of range" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1494965
<seb128> didrocks, bug #1405950 as well
<ubot5`> bug 1405950 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "sudo apt-add-repository ppa: results in IndexError: string index out of range" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1405950
<didrocks> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~didrocks/software-properties/error-fixes/+merge/274232
<seb128> \o/
<didrocks> adding the second one
<desrt> popey: >:|
<didrocks> those guysâ¦
<didrocks> I'm sure he's going on the other side to attack us
<desrt> bluefin is _obviously_ my territory
<desrt> i mean.... BLUEfin...
<didrocks> :p
<didrocks> stupid you!
<robert_ancell> willcooke, bug 1470655
<ubot5`> bug 1470655 in packagekit (Ubuntu) "Update to PackageKit 1.0" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1470655
<willcooke> thanks
<robert_ancell> willcooke, can you install the xserver-xorg-video-intel *vivid* version from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel? Also worth keeping the wily .deb around so you can easily revert if that doesn't work.
<willcooke> popey, https://goo.gl/n4OL5i
<dobey> seb128: it would be more work than it's worth (re: click/snap in s-c)
<seb128> dobey, well the alternative is to replace s-c, which is not trivial either
<dobey> seb128: but that's where all the work has been for the past 2 years
<seb128> dobey, what work? we are talking unity7 for the lts
<seb128> there is no unity8 scope or anything there
<dobey> ok. but there aren't clicks/snaps for unity7 either.
<seb128> right, though we are looking at making snaps installable on an unity7 desktop
<seb128> but we had an hangout with mvo this morning and discussed the topic a bit more
<seb128> so I think we know what we need to do
<dobey> there are now gui app snaps yet though.
<dobey> is there even a definition of what an app is with regards to snaps yet?
<seb128> unsure
<seb128> but it's something we need to look at
<dobey> i think you need to make sure kyrofa is in these discussions; he did the work on the snap scope, and was/is working on how to get snaps installed and runnable alongside clicks
<seb128> k; thanks for the suggestion
<robert_ancell> willcooke, ppa:robert-ancell/xorg
<didrocks> robert_ancell_: failing case: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12773302/
<robert_ancell_> didrocks, gsettings get org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xrandr default-monitors-setup
<chrisccoulson_> seb128, I'm on my way. What time will you be in blue fin until?
<seb128> chrisccoulson_, at least 6pm
<chrisccoulson_> seb128, cool, I'm pretty sure I'll be there by then :)
<seb128> great, have a good trip!
<FJKong> hi meeting~~
<Trevinho> larsu: Let's do meeting with these today: http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blogs/italian-popular-gestures-3
<Trevinho> just using those ones....
<Sweet5hark> Trevinho: what gesture needs to be used on reading https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=144472550016118&w=2 ?
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-14
<cyphermox> TheMuso: thanks for n-m-openvpn! :)
<TheMuso> cyphermox: np, just deciding to do some FTBFS work, and I use that on occasion, so I thought why not. :)
<cyphermox> yep
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> larsu: FYI: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#notify-osd
<didrocks> good morning!
<qengho> [needs citation]
<Laney> GOAD MOANING
<pitti> hey Laney!
<pitti> bonjour didrocks
<pitti> Ã§a va seb128
<didrocks> bonjour pitti :)
<pitti> seb128: FYI, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html#notify-osd test regression
<larsu> pitti: thanks :)
<larsu> pitti: und guten morgen aus London
<seb128> pitti, hey, thanks we were discussing it with Laney
<pitti> larsu: *wink*
<seb128> and then larsu mentioned it as well
<hikiko> hello
<seb128> hey hikiko
<hikiko> hi seb128 :)
<desrt> hello #ubuntu-desktop!
<seb128> hey desrt!
<desrt> where is everyone today?
<seb128> hidding in the corner
<hikiko> hahahaha
<desrt> i see seb
<larsu> I see desrt
<desrt> i don't see larsu
<desrt> :(
<pitti> hey desrt, wie gehts?
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> what is up?
<pitti> the sun again, at last!
<larsu> desrt: open your eyes!
<desrt> omg the sun!
<Laney> looks good here!
<Sweet5hark> seb128:  "desktop/gnome/interface", "/system/proxy", "/system/http_proxy/host", "/desktop/gnome/url-handlers/mailto", "/apps/openoffice", "/desktop/gnome/lockdown", "/apps/openoffice/lockdown"
<seb128> Sweet5hark, yeah, those are deprecated
<seb128> desrt, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=756153
<ubot5`> Gnome bug 756153 in general "Clicking a file-picker dialog in GTK3-enabled Firefox or Epiphany triggers crash and/or GLib-GIO-CRITICAL **: g_dbus_connection_is_closed: assertion 'G_IS_DBUS_CONNECTION (connection)' failed" [Normal,New]
<Sweet5hark> seb128: ok, going to kill this then for LibreOffice 5.1 ...
<seb128> Sweet5hark, thanks!
<seb128> I'm surprised nobody did
<seb128> or at least that nobody filed a bug about stopping using gconf
<seb128> Sweet5hark, https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41678&redirected_from=fdo
<ubot5`> bugs.documentfoundation.org bug 41678 in LibreOffice "Use GSetting instead GConf" [Enhancement,Resolved: wontfix]
<desrt> seb128: it's all shit!!!
<seb128> :-(
<seb128> Sweet5hark, https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/42653 states that we can build with --disable-lockdown --disable-gconf
<seb128> robert_ancell, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1502052 seems new in wily, might be worth upstreaming?
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1502052 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/Xorg:6:_list_del:list_del:__kgem_retire_rq:__kgem_retire_requests_upto:kgem_bo_retire" [Undecided,New]
<robert_ancell> seb128, I'll have a lock
<robert_ancell> look
<seb128> didrocks, oneconf didn't change so https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/219c680fa886fb16b18c7e8291b66f066cdbeceb is likely an issue in the stack under it?
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, I feel piston-mini-client in particular
<seb128> didrocks, weird, that didn't change since trusty
<seb128> so probably not it
<didrocks> seb128: hum, maybe the server did change his encoding or anything when sending back the answer?
<seb128> yeah, I wonder
<didrocks> (and so, the bug has always been there)
<didrocks> just not showing up
<Sweet5hark> "are you crazy? do you have *any* idea what larsu could do if IRC had audio support?" (paraphrasing https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/quips.cgi?action=show )
<larsu> Sweet5hark: I need to log in to see that (but don't have an account)
<Sweet5hark> larsu: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=qSDWM9az
<desrt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKcChGsDqnU
<desrt> CUPS!!
<Laney> lp
<desrt> where's till?
<desrt> this is his kind of thing
<robert_ancell> tjaalton, Do you know what sort of stability requirements the Intel driver has for git snapshots? We seem to be getting a few issues since moving from 2.99.917 to 2.99.917+git20150808.
<robert_ancell> Was there a particular fix we were getting by upgrading?
<robert_ancell> bug 1502052 seems to be the latest issue.
<ubot5`> bug 1502052 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/Xorg:6:_list_del:list_del:__kgem_retire_rq:__kgem_retire_requests_upto:kgem_bo_retire" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1502052
<seb128> Trevinho, http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-desktop/unity-bugs.html
<seb128> Trevinho, https://dev.launchpad.net/Bugs/BugHeat#Algorithm
<tjaalton> robert_ancell: hi, i'm gone until monday, but in general one snapshot before FF, and I checked with upstream that this should've been a stable-ish release
<robert_ancell> tjaalton, ok, I'll just raise the issues with upstream.
<tjaalton> robert_ancell: ickle is quite responsive in fixing these and/or pointing out commits that fix things
<tjaalton> too bad there hasn't been a single upstrean snapshot since december..
<robert_ancell> tjaalton, you mean a release by upstream?
<robert_ancell> I'm not aware of their release process
<tjaalton> right, .917 is the latest and old by now
<tjaalton> no stable release in over two years..
<robert_ancell> tjaalton, did you mean we should have made a snapshot or upstream should have made a .918 release?
<robert_ancell> tjaalton, just thinking for next cycle, should we regularly update by taking snapshots?
<seb128> tjaalton, hey, not going to bother you much if you are off, but just one question. is bug #1417980 something we need to fix if we want to use libinput? what happens without the usd/ucc changes? the settings are not working?
<ubot5`> bug 1417980 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "Add support for unified Xorg input driver" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1417980
<seb128> tjaalton, also is that something we want to change in a lts or do we need more testing/feedback?
<hikiko> Trevinho, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyMbW4Iykqc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTo2JtBi8so
<tjaalton> robert_ancell: dunno if another snapshot this cycle would've helped. but it doesn't help that upstream is in git-master-forever -mode..
<robert_ancell> tjaalton, yeah, it's kind of frustrating. Sorry to bother you, enjoy you break!
<tjaalton> seb128: yeah, settings won't work, I'd say it would be best to switch early, fedora defaults to it already, and it would then share the same plumbing with mir
<seb128> tjaalton, k, so on next cycle opening would be good ... how would one test that? install -libinput and change options and see if they work?
<tjaalton> only issues I know of is some pointer acceleration issues have been reworked upstream but not released yet, but that should arrive by next month for sure
<seb128> k
<tjaalton> just install -libinput
<tjaalton> it'll override -evdev and -synaptics then
<tjaalton> verify reading Xorg.0.log
<tjaalton> robert_ancell: no worries :)
<tjaalton> robert_ancell: oh, and push xserver git changes when you get a chance ;)
<robert_ancell> tjaalton, right, I keep forgetting.
<tjaalton> too easy, I know
<seb128> robert_ancell, useful upstream reply :-/
<seb128> oh, in fact he's right? ;-)
 * desrt hits glib with sticks
<seb128> beat it!
<robert_ancell> seb128, actually it was - you sent me on a wild goose chase! I relooked at errors.ubuntu.com and all the reports are from users running 2:1.17.2-1ubuntu9 or earlier.
<desrt> seb128: please keep the channel G-rated
<desrt> seb128: also: pay attention to your meeting!
<robert_ancell> So it must be fixed I think.
<seb128> lol
<seb128> robert_ancell, sorry about that, those users not dist-upgrading daily!
<robert_ancell> yeah, I reckon
 * robert_ancell is hungry
<desrt> seb128: so looks like we have a release now
<seb128> desrt, \o/
<desrt> mclasen broke the build, then reverted the changes and did a release while i was at lunch
<desrt> so my morning was a complete waste of time
<seb128> or not
<seb128> well, he didn't do the release it seems?
<seb128> sorry you wasted the morning
<desrt> i still get to type 'make dist', it seems :p
<desrt> he committed the release commit
 * desrt merges the best parts of the two NEWS updates, adds trash fix, etc.
<desrt> not a total waste
<Trevinho> andyrock, hikiko: if you came back in the room we were before we can continue with looking through bugs... Let's do that at 14:30
<Trevinho> seb128: if you want to...
<seb128> Trevinho, k
<andyrock> Trevinho: no
<desrt> Trevinho: hikiko will be unavailable due to taking too many pictures
<Trevinho> desrt: eheh, ok that's fine... :)
<Trevinho> I want a bug with pictures, then BTW :)
 * desrt looks around but fails to see Trevinho 
<Trevinho> desrt: in the nearest meeting room
<desrt> you just kicked a chair
<larsu> attente: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Patuoxun%C2%AE-Converter-ThinkPad-Compatible-Ultrabook-7-9x5-5mm-female-plug/dp/B00G3UTBVA
<Trevinho> Shockley
<Laney> shocking
<desrt> i wanted to say that
<desrt> but i thought it would be dumb
<desrt> just saying' ;)
<desrt> hm.  now i look like the dumb one anyway.
<Laney> mean
<desrt> and a meanie to boot
<desrt> sorry Laney :(
<desrt> *hug*
<Trevinho> seb128: how often is the rls-w-incoming list updated?
<seb128> Trevinho, no idea, maybe Laney knows?
<Laney> try bdmurray, sorry
<Trevinho> http://is.gd/XT8WDI
<robert_ancell> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/12781248/
<popey> robert_ancell: bug 1421575
<ubot5`> bug 1421575 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Desktop corruption when changing monitor config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1421575
<robert_ancell> seb128, you were getting bug 1501941, right?
<ubot5`> bug 1501941 in xf86-video-intel "Screen turned off after X server exits" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1501941
<seb128> robert_ancell, yeah, that was a compiz issue which has been fixed I think
<robert_ancell> seb128, no, I worked around that in the intel driver. I need a dmesg log for upstream and mine is fully of touchscreen issues which will be confusing.
<seb128> robert_ancell, you did? when? I though popey confirmed it was compiz back then by trying their ppa
<robert_ancell> seb128, this is a different issue. Saviq and others were getting it. I'm sure someone here had it too..
<seb128> robert_ancell, oh, sorry, I read popey's bug number
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1308037
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1295908 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1308037 Sometimes applications stop showing up in the Dash" [High,Triaged]
<Laney> that dupe seems wrong
<seb128> robert_ancell, I didn't have the exit bug, Saviq and olli did
<Laney> the "How to fix it" doesn't apply in this case
<seb128> Laney, come here and participate ;-)
<seb128> they don't watch IRC
<Laney> maybe I just undupe it
<seb128> if you think it's wrong maybe undup and improve the description
<seb128> or explain them why you think it's not a dup
<desrt> seb is brutal
<desrt> goes to meetings just to have a nicer chair to IRC from
<seb128> lol
<Laney> I think the description is fine, no?
<larsu> the prescription is fine, ya
<seb128> they both seem "stop listing results" to me
<Laney> This sometimes happens for one search but either re-entering the search or toggling the lens has always fixed it in the past for me. This time neither of these steps work.
<Laney> vs.
<Laney> How to fix it once it happens:
<Laney> A)type something and either hit escape or delete what you have typed.
<Laney> B)Check "application" in filters in the Dash (it gets unchecked)
<Laney> ?
<seb128> titles are identical I guess that's the bit that needs to be better worded
<seb128> "sometime dash doesn't display results until some action is done"
<seb128> "sometime dash stop displaying results until unity is restarted"
<seb128> or whatever the difference is
<Laney> ok but people should still read the description
<Laney> it's not realistic to expect the title to be able to convey all nuances of a particular bug
<seb128> I guess in an ideal world they would
<seb128> just not enough hours in the day for that
<Laney> to read?
<Laney> you have to understand the problem to fix it
<Laney> anyway I changed them, hope you like it more now
<seb128> thanks
<seb128> well, I'm just said that when you try to clean a buglist that long you can't spent 5 minutes on every bug
<seb128> so good titles help to avoid errors ;-)
<willcooke> larsu, https://www.brewdog.com/bars/uk/shoreditch
<larsu> willcooke: thanks!
<larsu> willcooke: when will we meet there?
<qengho> london-turingers, I'll visit Forbidden Planet bookstore on the way to dinner, leaving about 17:30. You're welcome to join me.
<willcooke> larsu, I'm easy.  I guess we get back to the hotel and then freshen up etc and head over.  I'd suggest we get a cab/Uber because public transport looks like more effort than I'm willing to expend.  Uber will be about 10 GBP each way.  If we Uber then we can come and go as we please
<larsu> willcooke: sounds good to me
<willcooke> larsu, But I think I'll plan to be there for around 1930
<larsu> cool
<larsu> do they have food?
<larsu> otherwise I'd probably get something before
<willcooke> they do, but my mate says it's not great.
<willcooke> I haven't eaten there though
<larsu> a beer is also some kind of food, eg?
<larsu> *eh
<willcooke> Trip Advisor agrees that the food "needs work"
<didrocks> guinness!
<willcooke> there are no shortage of eating places over there
<willcooke> I'll get some recommendations
<jcastro> anyone have time to look at #1498658 or #14986655 ? branches are attached
<seb128> bug #1498658
<ubot5`> bug 1498658 in steam (Ubuntu) "Steam Controller support: need read-write access to /dev/uinput for controller emulation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1498658
<seb128> jcastro, unsure, I've the feeling it's going to be picked, maybe mdeslaur once he's back from holidays?
<jcastro> ah so that's why he's missing, I was looking for him earlier
<willcooke> hey Pharmasolin
<Pharmasolin> willcooke: Hello
<willcooke> Pharmasolin, so you're looking for a way to help with Desktop QA?
<Pharmasolin> willcooke: Yes i have started with bug triaging for 16.04, but now modifying testcases
<willcooke> Pharmasolin, I think it would be useful if we can write test cases for the bugs that we are fixing as part of the U7 clear up
<willcooke> so that we can make test for regressions
<willcooke> Trevinho, fyi ^^
<Pharmasolin> willcooke: were afk, i will need to get some fixed bug from Unity bug tracker and write steps for reproduce for specific bug, that were fixed?
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-15
<pitti> Good morning
<larsu> morning pitti!
<willcooke> morning all
<TheMuso`> Hey desktoppers.
<qengho> 'sup.
<willcooke> evening TheMuso
<pitti> hey larsu, how are you?
 * pitti waves to the desktoppers
<larsu> pitti: sick again :/ Not sure what's going on with me
<larsu> pitti: how are you?
<pitti> larsu: meh :( darn ubuflu?
<larsu> pitti: I'd be patient 0 if so ;)
<pitti> larsu: a bit groggy from basketball and staying up late, but okay otherwise, thanks
<larsu> pitti: not many other desktoppers here yet. I here there was some sort of port involved last night ;)
<larsu> *hear even
<TheMuso> Hope you folks had a good time last night, wish I was there.
<larsu> TheMuso: it was a lot of fun up until the part where I had to leave because I was too tired :) How are you?
<TheMuso> larsu: Much better than I was earlier in the week thanks.
<GunnarHj> Hi all, irrespective of what happened last night, I'd need help with sponsoring an im-config patch. It's bug #1481025, and it's a "must go in today" thing. Anyone?
<ubot5`> bug 1481025 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "Keyboard shortcut for layout switching works in Unity but not in Gnome-Flashback" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481025
<Laney> morning
<Laney> GunnarHj: Trade for you looking at the broken mascot image in ubuntu-docs?
<GunnarHj> Laney: Are you sure it's broken? It works with en_US, and the rest will work when the translations have been built.
<Laney> well I don't get it here
<Laney> what do you mean?
<larsu> morning Laney
<larsu> how are you?
<Laney> broken
<larsu> :/
<Laney> dpkg --configure laney
<larsu> *Laney
<Laney> meow
<larsu> what version you on?
 * TheMuso -> EOD, later folks.
<GunnarHj> Laney: I mean that if you start yelp as "LANGUAGE=en_US yelp", it should show up.
<Laney> yes, and C works too
<Laney> so what fixes this?
<GunnarHj> Laney: Right. And the rest depends on the language-pack-gnome-XX-base packages, which haven't been built yet. Right, pitti?
<Laney> so en_GB should work already then
<GunnarHj> Laney: All other languages but en_US should work when those packages have been built.
<GunnarHj> Laney: Now, after this good news, any chance you can help with the im-config patch? ;)
<pitti> GunnarHj: haven't been built yet> err, what?
<GunnarHj> pitti: Latest version from October 2, and the ubuntu-docs build happened after that.
<pitti> GunnarHj: ah, ok; yeah, we'll get another fresh build; I just pinged infinity in #u-devel to ask when this should happen
<GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, that's what I (and Laney) am/are waiting for. :)
<Laney> GunnarHj: -> happyaron :-)
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Hi Aron, have you seen my corrections at bug #1481025?
<ubot5`> bug 1481025 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "Keyboard shortcut for layout switching works in Unity but not in Gnome-Flashback" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1481025
<happyaron> GunnarHj: yes I'm reading that, just thinking I was correct for uploading the cjkv one, :)
<GunnarHj> happyaron: You were indeed. You should have stopped me. ;)
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Will you take care of the latest patch?
<happyaron> yep for im-config
<GunnarHj> happyaron: Great, then I'll go ahead and upload the l-s part.
<happyaron> thanks
<GunnarHj> happyaron: I made a stupid mistake, so you really don't need to thank me. But anyway, you're welcome. ;)
<hikiko> hello :)
<robert_ancell> mvo, what does sessioninstaller do? file-roller recommends it, does that seem like it still should?
<robert_ancell> GunnarHj, does language-selector work with PackageKit? We're looking at removing aptdaemon.
<robert_ancell> darkxst, around?
<darkxst> robert_ancell, maybe, just got home 1min ago
<darkxst> whats up
<robert_ancell> darkxst, we're sprinting in London and were about to have a discussion about what version of GNOME for 16.04 - was wondering if you wanted to be involved.
<darkxst> ok
<darkxst> I need 15mins though
<robert_ancell> darkxst, np
<mvo> robert_ancell: I think it used to install missing compressors and such
<darkxst> irc? or hangouts?
<robert_ancell> darkxst, hangout probably works best
<robert_ancell> mvo,  I couldn't see any associated patch to file-roller to use it directly, so I guess if PackageKit is working then file-roller will just continue to work.
<darkxst> ok, just let me grab some food first
<darkxst> re packagekit, it uses aptdeamon, shit breaks if you use apt-cc backend (like debian does)
<darkxst> language-selector uses aptdeamon
<robert_ancell> darkxst, we're looking at fixing the issues in apt-cc and dropping aptdaemon
<mvo> robert_ancell: yeah, session-installer is providing a PK session compatible API
<robert_ancell> mvo, ah
<darkxst> robert_ancell, I am all for that, but pitti doesnt like apt-cc
<pitti> well, 'like' -- it doesn't support plugins any more, but that ship has sailed long ago already anyway
<robert_ancell> darkxst, let us know when you're ready
<pitti> with that we lost the feature that if you install a package it also installs necessary langpacks
<pitti> it's not the end of the world of course
<darkxst> robert_ancell, eating, about 10 mins
<pitti> darkxst: didn't we drop the apt backend several releases ago already anyway?
<darkxst> setup a hangout I'll join it when I'm done
<darkxst> pitti, did we ever use apt-cc? I don't think so
<darkxst> of course packagekit also has the older python? apt backend but that is different
<pitti> darkxst: aren't we now? packagekit-backend-apt still exists in precise, not after that
<darkxst> pitti, apt-cc conflicts with aptdaemon
<pitti> darkxst: well, "now" -> if you actually use packagekit, of course
<pitti> with aptdaemon we obviously use that, and have plugins, right
<darkxst> apt-cc also has no support for locale provides, but ximion would take that upstream
<robert_ancell> darkxst, ok, let's just do it on IRC then. seb128 Laney larsu attente anyone else who cares
<seb128> https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GTK+/Roadmap
<robert_ancell> I think everyone is pretty much agreed here to go with 3.18 for GNOME
<robert_ancell> attente was keen to go to 3.20 for GTK+ because it has some features for GTK+ Mir
<seb128> looking a GTK, 3.20 would be good for the mir backend/the things attente is working on
<robert_ancell> desrt too
<seb128> but " Merge GSK " seems a bit scary
<robert_ancell> darkxst, does that match what you guys want in Ubuntu GNOME?
<seb128> unsure how much the scene graph impacts
<seb128> is that new code/backend
<seb128> or going to impact x11 rendering?
<seb128> https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/DeveloperExperience2014/GtkRoadmap#A4._A_scene_graph.
<robert_ancell> Sounds likely to cause bugs, probably would not be perfectly ironed out until 3.22
 * robert_ancell watches the tumbleweed go past
<darkxst> robert_ancell, I can do a hangout now
<darkxst> I don't think the scene graph stuff is ready to land yet?
<ricotz> seb128, afaik gsk will only be used and impact new widgets
<seb128> ricotz, the second link states "The first step is to get a scene drawn inside a GtkWidget "
<seb128> so it seems like it has potential for quite some code change/creating issues
<ricotz> I think this widget would be some kind of new container with the needed api to go further
<darkxst> gnome has been pretty stable the last few releases, but you never know when they decide to go and break stuff at the last minute]
<ricotz> I doubt that literally GtkWidget is meant here
<ricotz> sorry, g2g
<robert_ancell> https://hangouts.google.com/call/ab27fjkv4ryjrpunjw4xrsytcia
<seb128> darkxst, ^ want to join?
<seb128> ricotz, bye
<darkxst> seb128, trying to join
<seb128> darkxst, we can't hear you
<seb128> do you hear us?
<darkxst> seb128, I can hear you
<seb128> darkxst, doesn't work?
<darkxst> seb128, apparently no sound
<seb128> we can't hear you...
<seb128> darkxst, can you try to reconnect?
<darkxst> ok
<seb128> thanks
<davmor2> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1506396
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1506396 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Desktop scaling from 2â1 on dell xps doesn't resize to screen dimensions" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> davmor2, thanks
<darkxst> seb128, that was a pretty shallow meeting, but if you guys reallly want to switch, and we are for it, you will need to find a server to generate metadata
<seb128> darkxst, is debian going this way?
<darkxst> seb128, yes, but so far its only hooked in tanglu, but they have a dedicated server generating the data
<darkxst> ximion was talking about getting a meta-data package into ubuntu for kubuntu, but that is just a hack
<darkxst> debian already defaults to apt-cc backend so a little easier for them
<darkxst> (and kubuntu also)
<chrisccoulson> What was that?
<Sweet5hark> shut up guys, I wanna work.
<chrisccoulson> stop poking me seb128
<pitti> chrisccoulson: just feed him some stollen, and he'll become really friendly!
<seb128> yummy!
<chrisccoulson> hah! :)
 * Sweet5hark remembers that for the next crappy package he wants to get sponsored.
<cking> seb128, any progress on zfs?
<seb128> cking, I did new spl-linux and looking at zfs now but it's not a trivial package
<cking> seb128, ack, indeed
<qengho> Will zfs integrate with gnome-disks and such? It crosses so many layers, it seems hard.
<cking> qengho, no entirely sure
<cking> *not
<Riddell> pitti: apport test failure reported on konsole looks like a network issue? lots of "ERROR: Package download error"
<Sweet5hark> hmmm, so cnn published the current top 50 bars of the world and 9 of them are in London. I wonder, if we should use that information for Great Good(tm) ... http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/09/foodanddrink/world-50-best-bars-2015/index.html
<qengho> +1
<popey> Sweet5hark: any chance you can join us in #ubuntu-touch-meeting
<robert_ancell> qengho, does bug 1506483 look reasonable to you?
<ubot5`> bug 1506483 in Light Display Manager "Cannot "killall chromium" from a guest session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1506483
<qengho> robert_ancell: reasonable, yes. SRU-worthy, I an not so sure.
<qengho> I'll leave that up to you~.
<robert_ancell> qengho, yeah, I'm not going to SRU it, but wanted to check if it should go onto trunk
<qengho> robert_ancell: LGTM
<robert_ancell> qengho, thanks
<Pharmasolin> willcooke: i will need to get some fixed bug from Unity bug tracker and write steps for reproduce for specific bug, that were fixed?
<Pharmasolin> willcooke: it is from our yesterday conversation i were afk and you exit irc later
<Pharmasolin> willcooke: we were talking about U7 test cases
<willcooke> Pharmasolin, just talking to davmor2 about some of the options
<Pharmasolin> willcooke: ok
<Sweet5hark> r
<qengho> chrisccoulson: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+files/firefox_41.0.2.orig.tar.bz2
<chrisccoulson> qengho, thanks
<Laney> Trevinho: http://5digits.org/pentadactyl/
<seb128> robert_ancell, do you see anything wrong with http://paste.ubuntu.com/12791538/
<seb128> robert_ancell, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=8bd98c08aa380dd31273b4377ef6417f9946c941
<seb128> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=3df565cbf737ec6ad87b9d8eae21a1213e656fd2
<seb128> robert_ancell, I guess fixed in https://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/commit/?id=b6bf982289273c1416ba66281b8c09a1ee6a33a4
<GunnarHj> cyphermox: Nudging you about the MP at bug #1499088. There are also a couple of unreleased revisions in trunk, so there should indeed be another upload of ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu before final freeze.
<ubot5`> bug 1499088 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu Wily) "Text is unreadable (dark-on-dark) in ubiquity slideshow "Help & Support" slide, when installing Ubuntu 15.10" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1499088
<cyphermox> GunnarHj: cool, you ready to upload ubuntu-docs?
<cyphermox> scratch that, I see it happened alredy
<GunnarHj> cyphermox: Right.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-16
<pitti> Good morning
<qengho> GOOD MORNING
<didrocks> good morning!
<pitti> hey didrocks, hello qengho
<didrocks> hey pitti!
<seb128> good morning desktopers!
<seb128> happy friday
<pitti> bonjour seb128
<seb128> pitti, salut pitti, comment Ã§a va ?
<larsu> hi pitti!
<desrt> does anyone know what packages are involved in menu exporting for libreoffice/firefox/qt/etc/etc ?
<desrt> this guy emailing me about the HUD is asking ...
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien, merci ! en route Ã  Dresden dans le train; et toi ?
<seb128> pitti, bon voyage! moi Ã§a va bien aussi, Ã  Londres encore pour une journÃ©e ;-)
<seb128> pitti, are we getting new langpacks?
<Sweet5hark> desrt: starting point for the LibreOffice unity menu: https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/blob/master/vcl/inc/unx/gtk/gtksalmenu.hxx#L23
<desrt> Sweet5hark: i already sent the mail, thanks :)
<desrt> happyaron: i read your post about tiananmen square.  that was powerful stuff, man.
<pitti> seb128: yes; yesterday's export failed, so wgrant restarted it this morning
<pitti> seb128: I'll rebuild them ASAP, ETA this afternoon (unless it fails again, fingers crossed)
<seb128> pitti, ok, thanks
<seb128> do we have page which tells us if an export is ongoing and the status?
<happyaron> desrt: but I won't receive my tea
<desrt> happyaron: i'd write something and publish it in your name, but this is too much work
<desrt> i think i'd rather just buy the tea for you myself :)
<happyaron> lol
<pitti> seb128: no, we don't; just the final results on https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/wily/+language-packs
<seb128> k
<pitti> seb128: I use the "ping wgrant" status mechanism :)
<seb128> happyaron, what did you write? ;-)
<seb128> pitti, modern technology! ;-)
<happyaron> seb128: desrt just wants to see if that will help me get a cup of tea
<happyaron> seb128: and he decides to buy it himself, :)
<seb128> lol
<desrt> seb128: if the chinese government is concerned about your online activities they will send you an invitation to come and have a cup of tea with them
<desrt> which sounds lovely, to be quite honest
<desrt> tea is great!
<seb128> yeah, Laney didn't get tea at 10 downing street
<desrt> AND THIS IS ENGLAND
<desrt> time and time again -- the chinese simply do it better
 * desrt orders herself a new nexus 5x
<desrt> er wait.  wrong country :(
<cking> seb128, how's that zfs review progressing?
<seb128> cking, too many things to do :;-/
<seb128> Mirv, hey
<seb128> Mirv, you droped upstream_xcb_use_themed_cursor.patch from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtbase-opensource-src/5.4.2+dfsg-2ubuntu1 but it seems the patch is not in the current wily version?
<seb128> Mirv, that's the change http://launchpadlibrarian.net/201675126/qtbase-opensource-src_5.4.1%2Bdfsg-2ubuntu3_5.4.1%2Bdfsg-2ubuntu4.diff.gz
<seb128> the XCreateFontCursor call doesn't exist in wily
<seb128> Mirv, seems it's not in 5.4 http://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qtbase.git/tree/src/plugins/platforms/xcb/qxcbcursor.cpp?h=5.4
<seb128> but it's in trunk
<Mirv> seb128: seems to be in 5.5, 5.6 and trunk, yes, but not 5.4 branch
<seb128> Mirv, so you dropped it by error?
<Mirv> seb128: oh, sorry, I read wrongly, that's a mistake if it's not in our 5.4.2 then!
<seb128> Mirv, can you get an upload with it restored now? ;-)
<seb128> wily is frozen today :-/
<seb128> willcooke, ^ that's your cursor in webbrowser issue
<seb128> chrisccoulson, ^
<Mirv> seb128: absolutely, I'm putting my lunch on hold for it :) I must have confused something since the other xcb patch was in 5.4.2 but this one wasn't
<seb128> Mirv, thanks
<seb128> sorry about your lunch
<Mirv> seb128: ok, both it and the -gles counterpart are in unapproved queue now
<Mirv> filed a bug too
<seb128> Mirv, thanks
<seb128> up to Laney now ;-)
<Mirv> oh well the -gles gets autoaccepted, so just the normal qtbase in the queue
<seb128> willcooke, https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-047/+build/8135097/+files/notify-osd-icons_0.8%2B15.10.20151016.1-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, https://code.launchpad.net/~lbssousa/lightdm/guest-session-allow-read-proc-net-dev/+merge/274580
<hikiko> hello
<happyaron> hikiko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nux/+bug/1229171
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1229171 in nux (Ubuntu) "switch fcitx to input chinese failed in dash" [Critical,Triaged]
<hikiko> something is wrong with my internet connection
<hikiko> :s
<happyaron> lol
<hikiko> I can't see that link
<hikiko> sorry...
<hikiko> :pp
<Mirv> if you have anything to fill in feel free bug #1506813 but I linked to the original bug now and told the fact that it's in vivid since March
<ubot5`> bug 1506813 in qtbase-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "xcb_use_themed_cursor.patch dropped incorrectly with Qt 5.4.2" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1506813
<seb128> willcooke, new try, people.canonical.com/~seb128/notify-osd-icons_0.8+15.10.20151016-0ubuntu1_all.deb
<willcooke> fixed!
<seb128> \o/
<seb128> willcooke, cking, Laney, happyaron, zfs is accepted
<cking> \o/ thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<cking> and thanks to Laney too
<qengho> Sweet
<happyaron> seb128: nice
<happyaron> seb128: I'll apply for PPU very soon
<happyaron> hikiko: lp:~wengxt/nux/fcitx-support
<Laney> cking: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/221440224/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-ppc64el.zfs-linux_0.6.4.2-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<Laney> if you didn't get mailed
<hikiko> thank you happyaron
<cking> Laney, ok, thanls
<willcooke> seb128, \o/  thanks!
<willcooke> Laney, happyaron thanks to you as well for your work on ZFS
<happyaron> :)
<happyaron> FJKong: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntukylin/+bug/1506821
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1506821 in Ubuntu Kylin ""System Settings"->"Language Support" Application's interface appear and then disappear soon" [Undecided,New]
<FJKong> happyaron: sounds critical
<seb128> darkxst, did you get any chance to look at that gdm issue that tops e.u.c?
<willcooke> attente, did it work?
<Laney> will it blend?
<larsu> Laney: likely
<attente> willcooke: worked perfectly, thanks!
<willcooke> attente, sweet!
<seb128> gedit working on the phone? ;-)
<Laney> willcooke fixed gtk bugs?
<Laney> seb128: can haz samba?
<seb128> Laney, it's doit it for me atm :-/
<attente> he fixed all the bugs
<Laney> do what?
<attente> do it
<Laney> surreal
<seb128> Laney, nautilus segfaults when browsing WORKGROUPS here
<seb128> unsure why it doesn't for you :-/
<larsu> don't browse the workgroups!
<larsu> not even on windows you do that
<larsu> it always crahses
<seb128> that stack doesn't  seem reliable
<Laney> oh wait
<Laney> I got it
<seb128> good
<Laney> ok trying with ze patch
<Laney> larsu: HAHAHAH
<larsu> thanks Laney
<larsu> attente: come on irc to find out
<Laney> ok
<Laney> it didn't happen
<attente> larsu: lol
<seb128> good job Laney!
<Laney> let me send ze patch
<larsu> pretty sure it did
<happyaron> seb128: fixed, :p
<seb128> happyaron, good work!
<Laney> robert_ancell: seb128: didrocks:anyone: seeded package review at 4?
<seb128> Laney, wfm
<Laney> anyone got a mini displayport adapter?
<robert_ancell> Laney, sure
<davmor2> tseliot: Hey dude I'm having issue with prime on wily, If I switch to nvidia logout all I get is a black screen.  If I switch back to intel and restart lightdm I get a login screen again
<davmor2> tseliot: this has only happened over the last few days but I think when I installed wily I forgot to switch it nvidia so I don't know how much earlier it was kicking in
<tseliot> davmor2: can you reproduce the problem, ssh into the machine, and upload your /var/log/Xorg.0.log, dmesg, and /var/log/gpu-manager.log somewhere, please?
<davmor2> tseliot: sure give me 5 minutes
<seb128> pitti, do you know what's the issue with apport i386 autopkgtest?
<pitti> seb128: I just saw it failing, no idea yet; appareantly some changes on ddebs.u.c.
<pitti> seb128: I hinted it for now, will look when it's not release crunch time
<pitti> seb128: oh, and I re-queued all regressions on excuses.html
 * pitti args at half of scalingstack being down again, slow queue processing plus qt+glib triggering a lot
<seb128> pitti, thanks
<davmor2> tseliot: check pm
<tseliot> done ;)
<Laney> pitti: I already did some of them
<pitti> Laney: ah, yay double-queueing then; but oh well, arm and ppc64 are fine
<robert_ancell> seb128, and you said wfm for the meeting at 4. LIES!! ;)
<seb128> robert_ancell, willcooke and johnlea tricked me
<pitti> bonsoir tout le monde, bon retour !
<seb128> pitti, have a good .we
<Pharmasolin> Hello is here someone? I have quick question about launchpad.net
<lifeless> you might be better off asking in #launchpad
<sarnold> or at least asking a specific question :)
<lifeless> or both!
<Pharmasolin> I found that Ukrainian Translators team are not active (people are translating, but group are not managing) both admins don't maintain it. It there way to do something?
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-17
 * Sweet5hark is stranded at heathrow.
#ubuntu-desktop 2015-10-18
<TheMuso> Morning all. :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-10-17
<pitti> Good morning
<Laney> hello!
<qengho> 'sup.
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
<pitti> bonjour seb128 !
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> Enjoying the Dutch hospitality :-)
<Laney> good to see people again
<Laney> how are you?
<seb128> salut pitti
<seb128> had a good w.e?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks! nothing special, just jumped out of a plane :-P
<pitti> no, seriously, this was amazing
<seb128> where are you going?
<pitti> no, literally
<qengho> Going? Downward.
<pitti> https://plus.google.com/+MartinPitti/posts/LFPgFqdV65Z
<pitti> qengho: and very fast that!
<qengho> "Just jumped out" sounds like you're typing on the way down.
<qengho> ...which, I *imagine*, is hard.
<pitti> indeed, there is a slight draft :)
<qengho> You're brave. And I don't mean that as a euphamism for "dumb".
<pitti> Laney, seb128: happy sprinting! I hope you had some beers last night
<seb128> thanks pitti
<seb128> "beer"
<pitti> seb128: your jetlag must be terrible
<seb128> yeah, it was a looong trip
<pitti> like, 20 mins on the bike?
<seb128> it would be more 45
<pitti> OMG
<seb128> but we were in north of France for the w.e
<seb128> so it was rather a 3 hours drive ;-)
<pitti> oh, so actual travel then
<seb128> yes, but still an easy one
<willcooke> Laney, desrt hikiko please head to the meeting room Van Gogh
<xnox> Laney, what was the gsettings key for the unity7 key for the decimal scale factor?
<Trevinho> xnox: font or screen?
<Trevinho> xnox: for global one is com.ubuntu.user-interface scale-factor though
<xnox> that one i think
<Trevinho> xnox: and values are so that 8 = 1x.
<Trevinho> xnox: so, you've 8 point scaling for each integer.
<xnox> Trevinho, very nice. But is unity7 that sets it?
<xnox> or.... I'm looking for e.g. 2.38 that i can twiddle manually
<xnox> "scale for menu and title bars"
<Trevinho> xnox: unity-control-center does
<Trevinho> xnox: as for gtk apps scaling is different
<Trevinho> xnox: thant's controlled by org.gnome.desktop.interface values, and yeah we hack those too (at unity level)
<xnox> Trevinho, hm, i'm looking for something to query of dbus to preset environment variable in the unity8.conf upstart pre-start script
<xnox> to have the right dpi.
<xnox> *over dbus
<Trevinho> xnox: something to be set on pre-install or after user configured?
<Trevinho> xnox: err, pre-install.. .I mean pre-user conf
<xnox> Trevinho, something that unity7 user configured, and now logs into unity8 session (because they upgraded to 16.10)
<xnox> and expect unity8 session to have same scale factor as existing unity7 session.
<Trevinho> xnox: ah... ok... Well, u8 should be smarter in using the proper scaling, however... if you want to keep these settings, well... that com.ubuntu.user-interface scale-factor key is the one to query
<xnox> Trevinho, for me it has com.ubuntu.user-interface scale-factor {'default': 8, 'HDMI1': 8, 'eDP1': 16, 'eDP-1': 16} ... but is that available when unity7 is not running?!
 * xnox ponders how lightdm gets DPI setting for me.
<xnox> cause that shows things right.
<sil2100> jibel: I didn't browse the whole schedule, but do we have some meeting set for the snappy-CI story?
<Trevinho> xnox: yeah, sure... that's always available once set.
<qengho> "zesty"
 * flocculant is sad at the lack of zebedee ...
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-10-18
<qengho> willcooke: if you had anything to do with ubuntu.com going https, I hug you.
<willcooke> qengho, ah great - it's been a while, but glad its sorted
<Laney> morning
<pitti> hey Laney, how are you?
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> doing good, thanks!
<Laney> we went out for mexican last night
<pitti> yummy
<Laney> \o/
<Laney> turns out the beach is pretty close to here, hopefully will get some bikes and go there
<Laney> Trevinho did some running around there yesterday - looked nice
<pitti> Laney: and not as hideously cold any more?
<Laney> how are you?
<pitti> I'm great, thanks!
<Laney> nah, not cold really
<pitti> that said, doctor appointment now, but just the regular allergy shot :) BBL
<Laney> LEVEL UP
<davmor2> desrt: http://www.etni.org.il/farside/potato.htm
 * qengho hugs Noah Webster.
<qengho> Halp! In chromium, I want to use its functions that require linking against gtk3. gtk3 pulls in mirprotobuf, and protobuf. That conflicts with chromium's internal, hacked up protobuf. I'm trying to figure out how to avoid those crashes. Ideas? Ideas that don't involve prefixing protobuf function names?
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-10-19
<Fudge> anyone use trasmission-remote, my local config doesn't seem to be saving accept for the hostname of the remote machine.
<pitti> Good morning
<pitti> Laney: good morning
<pitti> Laney: FYI, I removed all yakkety packages from the systemd silo and reconfigured the silo for v+x+z
<pitti> Laney: according to sil2100 I now need to wait until the PPA fully unpublishes the y packages; doing the MP fix in the meantime
<pitti> then we can re-re-re-rebuild
<Laney> hey pitti
<Laney> sorry for not "hey"-ing; sprint
<pitti> no worries :) how is it going?
<ogra_> it goes very dutch over here
<pitti> Laney: ok, I did https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/indicator-datetime/fix-systemd-unit/+merge/308786, that fixes the ExecStart= line
<pitti> Laney: not sure if the prerequisite is actually necessary, but I did it for now
<Laney> pitti: I think it makes bileto merge in the rigth order
<pitti> Laney: I mean, just merging the new MP is fine as it includes Ted's commits
<Laney> ya, you can also replace it
<Laney> but this should work too
<pitti> Laney: oh, you mean I shouldn't replace Ted's MP from bileto but just add mine?
 * Laney approves it
<Laney> yes
<pitti> ok, just adding it
<pitti> Laney: yes, I did check the built .deb
<Laney> I knew you would have :)
<Laney> pitti: sprint is session rather than hack heavy, but not bad
<Laney> we went to a museum last night with an illusion exhibition
<Laney> like the stuff at Escher's one
<Laney> was nice
<Laney> but now, got one of the aforementioned sessions -> brb
<pitti> tedg, Laney: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1710 mentions a missing libindicator, which is indeed not in a PPA, nor is there an MP; I figure this should be a backport of the y/z version (new indicator-common) -- shoudl I just upload that to the landing PPA, with a ~16.04/~14.10 suffix?
<pitti> unfortunately all the indicators now depend on this, so we need to provide it as backport
<Laney> pitti: I don't know, sorry
<Laney> looks like power & sound need removing on s390x
<Laney> (z)
<pitti> Laney: it's just a depwait, does that hurt?
<pitti> oh, indeed
<pitti> will do
<sarnold> do s390x machines not have a sound card? :)
<pitti> they have lots of fans which make noise :)
<pitti> *swoosh*
<Laney> is libindicator this indicator-common thing?
<pitti> yes
<sarnold> ahhh I wonder if anyone has done any audio -> pwm fan control things for them.. :)
<Laney> nod
<Laney> Can't do anything to backport that, it's got no Depends
<Laney> s/anything/any harm/
<pitti> Laney: right, I rather meant if that's what's missing here (direct PPA backport upload) or something else
<Laney> pitti: you mean how procedurally to upload a new backport using bileto?
<pitti> Laney: yes, using  bileto or direct dput (with manual changelog crafting)
<Laney> not sure if dput will make it sad the next time
<pitti> the latter tends to upset bileto the next time you want to land stuff, so I'm not sure about the "official" way
<Laney> I would say propose an empty MP
<Laney> but, -> sil2100 / robru
<pitti> ack
<Laney> ah, you don't need to list things in source package names if they have MPs
<Laney> maybe that's why it says "Diff missing" for those
<pitti> robru, sil2100: so what's the official way to get libindicator backported to v and x for https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1710 ? direct dput to the landing PPA with adding a ~16.04/~14.10 changelog record, or some bileto magic?
<pitti> Laney: the ticket has "libindicator" in its source package list indeed, but no MP
<pitti> no idea about the "diff is missing" indeed; I didn't touch the "source packages" list
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> someone put all the packages in there
 * Laney removes them
<pitti> but indicators on v/x will definitively become uninstallable without the backport
<Laney> nod, this is necessary
<pitti> Laney: so in theory all the complaints should now go away, right?
<Laney> pitti: I think so
<Laney> not sure why it's gone green though
<Laney> (or if that matters)
<pitti> Laney: maybe because I removed the s390x packages, but that would have been quite fast
<Laney> more likely because I edited the source package list
<Laney> when libindicator is published in there, try to upload and see what happens :-)
<pitti> Laney: I'll wait for s_il2100/r_obru to respond, before I mess up its brain
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> I just don't propose to tinker any more until $correct_action is taken
 * pitti wonders if the negation was intended to shift to the right by two words
<Laney> or s/more/more,/
<pitti> Laney: I meant, you would propose to not tinker any more; but </pedantery>
<Laney> strong words!
<pitti> Laney: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1710 -- wohoo!
<pitti> Laney: I clicked on regenerating the diffs, that cleaned up the remaining noise
<seb128> oh, pitti deleted software-center :-(
 * pitti puts down the axe -- looked like consensus to me on @u-devel, and it's still in y
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va ?
<seb128> yeah, I don't really understand tbh
<seb128> I'm sure there are stacks for other cruft in universe
<seb128> why do we go out of our way to delete this specific one
<seb128> oh well
<seb128> stacks of*
<seb128> pitti, oui, et toi ?
<pitti> seb128: unblocking python 3, unblocking debtags, etc. (and removing three packages is not "getting out of our way" -- porting it to py3 would :) )
<pitti> seb128: Ã§a va bien, merci !
<pitti> trying to get rid of some tech debt this week while it's quiet
<seb128> "unblocking python3"?
<seb128> having python2 in universe doesn't block anything going to python3
<pitti> ah well, it's not on teh images any more, right
<seb128> but no big deal, I just don't understand why people focus on that one when I'm sure that a cruftier things in universe
<pitti> no objection to removing those too :)
<seb128> we never tried to bother uncrufting universe
<seb128> hehe
<pitti> I actually do go through teh pain of process-removals every now and then
<seb128> that was my position in the past but people arguing the other way around, that those have some users and don't hurt anyone
<seb128> oh, well
<pitti> and whenever we stumble over stuff in library transitions etc., we  also tend to remove stuff
<seb128> yeah
<pitti> i. e. whenever cruft gets in the way, we kick it
<seb128> I wish we had a decent software center
<seb128> or a better one
<seb128> software-center had flaw but gnome-software also has some
<seb128> oh well, it's where we are now I guess
<seb128> s/decent/better I guess also, didn't mean to be negative
<pitti> seb128: so, one more step towards removing aptdaemon; language-selector, software-properties-gtk, and sessioninstaller still need it, though
<seb128> we don't have plan to replace aptdaemon this cycle apparently
<seb128> or rather nobody in our team has slots to work on that
<xnox> desrt, import public key only (with public parts of all subkeys) and run gpg --card-status to generate stubs. That's upstream way of doing it.
<seb128> it's also that aptdaemon works well enough/does the job so we don't have strong motivation to change
<xnox> desrt, also, once ssh-agent is up use $ ssh-agent -l for key fingerpring, and $ ssh-agent -L to show the key public key
 * xnox doesn't use the gpg thing for ssh auth keys
<xnox> ssh-agent -L should always work, even for e.g. ssl cards
<seb128> night
<robru> pitti: Laney: if you put in an mp for a package and build it, it will be built for all three series
<pitti> robru: ok, is that the official way to do it? as I don't really want to change/reupload it to z, that package is fine
<pitti> robru: well, I'll bump Standards-Version :)
<robru> pitti: you can either copy zesty into the ppa and do manual uploads for v and x,  or you can put an mp and have it built for you for all three, both ways are equally official. Generally MPs only work for packages that we are the upstream for
<pitti> robru: it is "our" package (libindicator); my worry was if I put in manual uploads to v/x-overlay, bileto would complain about being out of sync the next time we want to land an actual libindicator change
<robru> pitti: no, bileto doesn't check such things. You should probably check whether libindicator has forked development at some point. If you put an mp in, it'll land for all three, but maybe they have a vivid branch somewhere that they'll release from which won't contain your backport
<pitti> robru: libindicator is not in the overlay PPA at all; the only change is the addition of indicator-common, so it's the first time it gets into the overlay
<pitti> robru: Standards-Version MP it is, I figure :)
<robru> pitti: https://code.launchpad.net/libindicator libindicator appears to have branches for every series, which means that your changes will be reverted next time somebody does a vivid or xenial release
<robru> pitti: in this case you'll need two tickets, one that's just vivid and one that's just xenial, and an mp backporting your fix to both
<pitti> robru: oh, you mean because previous libindicator changes after vivid never landed in vivid-overlay
<pitti> robru: I don't think these branches are/should actually be active -- we *do* want to unify libindicator now
<robru> pitti: I'm not talking about overlay at all, I'm talking about the branches used to develop libindicator. If you put one branch in a triple silo, then later somebody attempts to use the vivid branch, it will revert what you've done, because your changes will only be recorded on the trunk and not on the vivid branch.
<robru> pitti: if you're really sure those other branches are no longer needed, please mark them abandoned
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-10-20
<tsimonq2> Is this known? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2016-October/011245.html
<tsimonq2> Lubuntu now uses GNOME Software, and there's a bug there.
<pitti> good morning
<TheMuso> Hey pitti.
<pitti> hey TheMuso, how are you?
<TheMuso> pitti: Not too bad thanks. Just between sessions at the sprint. How about yourself?
<pitti> TheMuso: I'm good, thanks! that good kind of muscle soreness after the two hours of Wed evening basketball :)
<pitti> TheMuso: how is the sprint going? any exciting major changes on the desktop?
<TheMuso> Thats a good kind of soreness, awesome, I'm sure it was enjoyable.
<TheMuso> pitti: A part from Unity 8, nothing amazing that I know of.
<Laney> 0/w 64
<Laney> oops
<sil2100> Ha, now we all know Laney's secret password
 * sil2100 hacks Laney's PC
<Laney> make your password look like an irssi command and nobody will guess
<Laney> UNTIL NOW
<xnox> make sure the password starts with /
<happyaron> Mirv: ping
<Laney> happyaron: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/fcitx.png
<Mirv> happyaron: pong
<happyaron> Mirv: where are you? Qt5 scaling bug as in Lane_y's screenshot
<happyaron> I can go and find you if convenient
<Mirv> happyaron: I'm in the plenary preparing for our lightning talk demo. Plus, I've the problem that my voice is gone...
<happyaron> ah...
<Mirv> happyaron: not familiar with such a bug or the scaling topic, not sure if some of the Unity 8 team would be familiar with scaling issues. Try Qt 5.6 (if not yet done), file LP bug with a test case, maybe search for upstream bugs to link to from https://bugreports.qt.io/
<Mirv> happyaron: is that HighDPI issue?
<happyaron> ok
<happyaron> ty
<pitti> tedg: https://objectstorage.prodstack4-5.canonical.com/v1/AUTH_39a8dbb93caf4ec889f8a1b7f69885db/bileto-1710-excuses/2016-10-20_14:40:01/landing-022_vivid_excuses.html#indicator-network says that indicator-network dropped two of its binaries (indicator-network-autopilot, indicator-network-tools) -- is that intended?
<pitti> Laney: ^ if you see tedg, mabye you can ask him about it (as he doesn't really seem to read IRC this week)
<pitti> this is the only remaining issue with landing this, AFAICS
<Laney> pitti: roger (don't see him right now, but will do)
<pitti> Laney: cheers
<pitti> Laney: actually, the version in the overlay drops it already, so that's nothing new; I just wonder how that gets past britney
<pitti> robru: ^ do you have an idea about that? i. e. indicator-network lost some binaries in the overlay PPA, and thus also in https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1710, and britney complains about that; can that be overruled/ignored somehow?
<robru> pitti: well britney has never been more than advisory, nothing stops you publishing tickets with britney failures
<pitti> robru: oh, ok; so presumably the last time it was landed like that as well
<robru> pitti: no, look at the version numbers, it's complaining about old builds in the ppa which can simply be deleted
<pitti> robru: oh, I see; I'll do that then
<robru> pitti: yeah that happens sometimes, i guess a binary package was renamed after the initial build? I don't know why those don't go away when the source gets superceded
<pitti> yeah, a bit strange
<pitti> robru: indeed, I NBSed them out; this ticket/PPA has a long history.. :)
<pitti> robru: thanks for your help!
<robru> pitti: you're welcome
<pitti> Laney, tedg: so unping for now
<hurricanehrndz> Anyone notice that libreoffice snap does not do English spell checking
<hurricanehrndz> language is always set to none
#ubuntu-desktop 2016-10-21
<pitti> Good morning
<tedg> pitti: Good morning, looks like you're good from the silo, thanks!
<pitti> hey ted, how are you? enjoying the sprint?
<tedg> pitti: Yeah, a lot of things changing and up in the air, so it's good to try to grab some of them :-)
<pitti> tedg: indeed! just unsure about the QA step
<tedg> pitti: I imagine the QA review won't happen until next week.
<tedg> pitti: All the folks doing reviews are in sessions :-)
<pitti> tedg: I mean, I thought we had these automatic "system tests" -- for a "no change" silo they should suffice?
<tedg> pitti: I think there are exceptions granted, but I don't think it's automatic.
<tedg> pitti: They don't give me exceptions often ;-)
<pitti> tedg: I don't want an exception, I just want an automatic system test run
<pitti> (and I want that to be the norm, not the exception :) )
<Laney> meow
 * pitti pets the Laneycat
<tedg> pitti: I don't think we have any automatic system test (that I know of)
<pitti> tedg: I had several meetings about it
<pitti> tedg: anyway, I'll let it sit there until mid next week and then start making noise again
<tedg> pitti: Okay, you might be more up-to-date than me then. I've never had to not do a manual QA review.
<pitti> I have some high-urgency stuff  to work on today anyway
<tedg> pitti: Sounds good. I'll try to answer questions if I see some.
<happyaron> pitti: hey, the fcitx SRU appears to need another patch, but LP 841372 makes me cannot request a sync anymore to yakkety-proposed..
<ubot5`> Launchpad bug 841372 in Launchpad itself "Incorrect auto-blacklisting in DSD?" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/841372
<seb128> pitti, hey! we don't do copies from SRU to $newserie at the start of the cycle anymore?
<seb128> hey desktopers too ;-)
<seb128> does anyone know if there is a way to get hexchat to not display "conversation" icons next to the channels and color on join/leave?
<seb128> giving it a try for some days but I find it graphically overloaded and difficult to read compared to xchat-gnome
<mdeslaur> seb128: that bug the hell out of me too, but I got used to it after a few days
<mdeslaur> s/bug/bugged/
<seb128> hum k, I didn't get used to it yet :-/
<mdeslaur> I did change the default colours though
<seb128> I wish it would stop putting channels blue on leave/join
<mdeslaur> (I think)
<mdeslaur> yeah, I set "New data" to dark red, "New message" to light red, and "Highlight" to blue
<mdeslaur> because highlighting blue for normal activity was annoying
<seb128> I changed the new data colors and tabs didn't change
<mdeslaur> I think you need to restart it
<seb128> but maybe it's not dynamic, let's wait for some activity
<seb128> oh ok
<seb128> mdeslaur, thanks
<mdeslaur> the only thing I hate now is that a privmsg only gets a "new message" colour, and not a "highlight" colour
<mdeslaur> so it's easy to miss them
<seb128> the icon thing is still annoying
<mdeslaur> yeah
<seb128> I might just snap xchat-gnome and use that
<mdeslaur> we should fork it! :)
<seb128> or that
<mdeslaur> lol
<mdeslaur> clearly there are no longer enough xchat forks in the archive anymore
<seb128> yeah, stop cleaning things out of the archive!
<seb128> Laney, upstream g-c-c bugs suggest users still have issues with mouse slider missing in 3.20, I think we best just always display it
<seb128> going to do a merge request for that
<Laney> k, makes sense
<happyaron> Laney: it could be https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=512286
<ubot5`> Debian bug 512286 in network-manager "network-manager: tray icons gives incorrect info about connection state when in manual mode" [Normal,Fixed]
<Laney> could be!
<happyaron> you are forced to be CONNECTED when wifi disconnected cuz you have bridges, and by default it shows the eth icon
<Laney> I'm not connected though
<Laney> you think it can be fixed?
<happyaron> mitigate it by excluding bridges from the patch, but don't think that would be acurrate for all potential cases though
<happyaron> https://git.launchpad.net/network-manager/tree/debian/patches/Force-online-state-with-unmanaged-devices.patch
<happyaron> Laney: line 99 ^^
<Laney> happyaron: that file only has lo=lo for me
<Laney> I think it's /var/run/network/ifstate
<happyaron> Laney: then line 72-74
<happyaron> anyway I can give a try to exclude bridges
<Laney> â¥
<Laney> maybe talk to mbiebl if they want it too
<happyaron> yep
<pitti> seb128: we did for the first few days, but now zesty is open and has a new toolchain, so not any more
<pitti> happyaron: right, don't sync, just upload with a lower version number; this is also a magnitude easier to review
<pitti> tedg, Laney, sil2100: huh, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1710 went to "QA signoff failed" without any log, comment, or other explanation.. what happened there?
<tedg> pitti: You have to look at the trello board
<tedg> pitti: (yes that sucks)
<tedg> pitti: Some of the MRs aren't signed off, we're working on it.
<pitti> tedg: is there a link to it?
 * pitti isn't on trello
<tedg> pitti: https://trello.com/c/IN1fm0rB/3698-1710-ubuntu-landing-022-hud-indicator-keyboard-indicator-messages-indicator-sound-indicator-bluetooth-indicator-datetime-indicat
<pitti> tedg: oh, ok; woudl it help if I review branches? (not an official reviewer, just "community")
<Laney> which ones aren't approved?
<sil2100> pitti: wow, the audit logs say *you* switched it to Failed ;)
<pitti> Laney: most of them
<Laney> tedg: https://launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers <- maybe add pitti?
<Laney> having two people do this isn't that productive
<pitti> http://www.robbomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/tasks.gif âº
<tedg> We invited ubuntu-core, we just need someone to confirm.
<tedg> I can add pitti directly as well.
<Laney> Ta
<Laney> pitti: haha, too true
<Laney> ubuntu@asgen:~$ sudo apt install python3-flask
<Laney> [sudo] password for ubuntu:
<Laney> æ­£å¨è¯»åè½¯ä»¶ååè¡¨... å®æ
<Laney> AAAAAAAAAAAA
<Laney> happyaron has corrupted my laptop!
<happyaron> lol
<happyaron> good chance to learn the language
<sarnold> he seems so happy though :)
<Laney> laney@nightingale> cat /etc/default/locale                                                                                                                                               /etc/default
<Laney> LANG="zh_CN.UTF-8"
<Laney> LANGUAGE="zh_CN:en_GB:en"
<happyaron> I have this in my zshrc:
<happyaron> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
<happyaron> LANGUAGE=en_US
<happyaron> export LANG LANGUAGE
 * Laney needs to press "apply system wide"
<Laney> better
<pitti> tedg: argh, indicator-bluetooth also has @pkglibexec@, marking accordingly
<pitti> seb128: question in https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/hud/systemd-for-session/+merge/300430 and I believe we need to remove that from the silo as it can't be triple-landed
<pitti> so we'll land that separately
<pitti> (as it removes upstart)
<pitti> tedg: I'm not qualified to review https://code.launchpad.net/~charlesk/indicator-display/adbd-client-test-failure/+merge/306399 ; I went through all the rest, and fix i-bluetooth now (and dropped seb's hud)
<seb128> pitti, I can change hud to restore the upstart job if you want
<seb128> pitti, the SRU thing is a bit annoying but I guess I can try to have a look to do a zesty upload this afternoon
<pitti> seb128: let me look if hud is otherwise in sync in the overlay; if not, don't bother, we'll just land that separately in z
<pitti> Laney: quick review of https://code.launchpad.net/~pitti/indicator-bluetooth/fix-systemd-unit/+merge/309002 SVP? I built/install tested it
<pitti> ExecStart= is now correct
 * pitti turns the rebuild crank
<pitti> seb128: hud is not in the overlay, so let's land it separately; this is complicated enough as it is
<pitti> seb128: but if you could drop teh changelog entry and push --overwrite, that'd be great
<seb128> pitti, ci is smart, if there is a manual changelog it uses that
<seb128> but I can delete it if you prefer
<pitti> seb128: but we don't want to, do we?
<pitti> seb128: it says yakkety and has a non-bileto version number
<seb128> right
<pitti> seb128: or will it replace that and just parse out the text?
<seb128> no, it's going to use the stock one
<seb128> I can change it
<pitti> seb128: ok; I don't know if it's going to work like that; if it does, fine (if you know, please DTRT)
<seb128> pitti, I try to fix it after lunch, I can add back the upstart job as well, I didn't think about triple landing when I did it, we discussed with ted in july and said it was probably fine to just migrate to systemd in yakkety since hud is only used in unity and that was being migrating
<pitti> seb128: I woudln't triple-land hud anyway, it's not currently in the overlay and I don't want to add even more changes to that
<seb128> k
<seb128> so maybe we are fine like that, I'm going to fix the changelog and we can upload to zesty
<Laney> pitti: done
<Laney> thanks for pushing all this
<pitti> seb128: ack
<pitti> Laney: merci
<pitti> bah, why does the current build still include hud
<pitti> Laney, tedg: oh FFS, now the new gcc in zesty of course breaks everything again
<pitti> or new cmake
<charles> I'm making some changes for dobey's review of  https://code.launchpad.net/~charlesk/indicator-display/adbd-client-test-failure/+merge/306399 now, will have it ready for  his approval asap
<pitti> charles: thanks; I'm not sure if that's even related to/required by the indicator porting?
<charles> right, I don't think it would be needed specifically by indicator porting
<charles> dobey: ^ pushed
<Laney> pitti: meh
<Laney> ./obj-x86_64-linux-gnu/CMakeFiles/CMakeTmp/CheckSymbolExists.c:8: undefined reference to `pthread_create'
<Laney> what is this
<pitti> Laney: oh, you found the error - I was unable to spot it
<pitti> Laney: I don't see that in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/290302168/buildlog_ubuntu-zesty-i386.indicator-network_0.8.0+17.04.20161021-0ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
<Laney> CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:79 (include): include could not find load file: EnableCoverageReport
<Laney> is it that really?
<Laney> is it really that?*
<pitti> supposedly yes, so it's the new cmake; see #u-devel
<Laney> nod
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-10-16
<jbicha> duflu: do you ever have gnome-shell hang when resuming from suspend?
<duflu> jbicha, after years of bugs I still fear suspend too much to ever suspend :/
<duflu> Also don't need to. I can either stay powered on, or just power off
<jbicha> well anyway, I believe Jonas's "headless" work in mutter helps fix some of those hangs/crashes
<jbicha> there are 2 more commits in the gnome-3-26 branch for that, that we didn't cherry-pick yet
<chobitslinux> Well, hope ubuntu18 can use a brilliant gui, but the gnome3 overview is not fluent than the gnome2, I used to use ubuntu11.04 with the typical unity,at some way, mate-like desktop is good.
<duflu> chobitslinux, there is actually a Classic mode in Gnome3. Just: apt install gnome-shell-extensions
<duflu> or: sudo apt install gnome-shell-extensions
<duflu> and then select the classic session on the login screen
<chobitslinux> duflu, Oh,thanks,I just has nostalgic idea.
<jamesh> robert_ancell: for bug 1722195, the only way I can understand him getting a polkit prompt on the command line but not in gnome-software is if he's running against an old libsnapd-glib.  I'm just going to fire up a clean VM to see if I can reproduce
<ubot5> bug 1722195 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Artful) "no policy kit auth dialog to install or remove a snap" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1722195
<chobitslinux_> wa, net stability is not well these days.
<jbicha> robert_ancell: I tried installing the moon-buggy snap and at 99% it's maxing out my cpu for several minutes :(
<robert_ancell> jbicha: from the ppa version
<robert_ancell> ?
<jbicha> no, from gnome-software in artful
 * jbicha wonders what happens if I press Cancel
<robert_ancell> jbicha: can you confim the versioN?
<chobitslinux> is the problem of CPU poor?
<jbicha> gnome-software 3.26.1-0ubuntu1, any other versions you want?
<robert_ancell> I'd hoped the CPU issues were resolved in that release... :(
<robert_ancell> jbicha: does it reliably reproduce?
<jbicha> well when I killed it, it had actually finished installing and it didn't happen when I installed oh my giraffe
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks, oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> hey duflu oSoMoN, re didrocks
<duflu> Hi seb128
<didrocks> re seb128
<_amano> Good morning desktoppers, can you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1723577 please?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1723577 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Artful won't start with Wayland activated" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> brb, moving location
<_amano> Looks like a showstopper bug. A fresh install freezing during/after displaying the Ubuntu splash screen.
<didrocks> jibel: do we have other similar reports ? ^
 * didrocks looks at the comments meanwhile
<didrocks> _amano: you told it worked until the week of the 7th October, are you able to downgrade some packages to help bisecting?
<willcooke> morning all
<duflu> Morning willcooke. Back in the land of the living yet?
<willcooke> duflu, I'm doing my best impression of someone who is awake
<willcooke> it's not terribly convincing
<didrocks> good morning willcooke, had an uneventful trip back?
<duflu> On IRC it is convincing. At least for a chatbot
<willcooke> :) Thanks $PERSON. How about that $LOCAL_SPORTS_TEAM
<didrocks> (only with set -e)
<duflu> Go ${TEAM_NAME}s
<Laney> moin
<didrocks> hey Laney, you middly awake too?
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you? had a good week in n.y, trip back and beer festival/w.e?
<duflu> Morning(ish?) Laney
<oSoMoN> hey willcooke, Laney, welcome back to the old world
<seb128> is there any way to tell mailman to shup up about "moderator request waiting" daily emails?
<seb128> hey willcooke
<willcooke> seb128, for the desktop list?
<seb128> willcooke, yes
<seb128> it's annoying that they changed the config when they upgraded/did maintainance
<didrocks> ok, 2 people on the french forum have that issue + _amano at least
<seb128> I found options to disable the emails it was sending about every new request coming
<Laney> hi didrocks seb128 duflu oSoMoN
 * didrocks tries to get some help from them for bisecting
<seb128> but not about the daily nag
 * Laney is mostly alive
<seb128> didrocks, having issue with gdm/wayland on some drivers?
<didrocks> yep
<didrocks> since the 07/10
<duflu> Aha! didrocks, using an AMD GPU?
<seb128> what changed then?
<didrocks> GNOME 3.26.1, so, a lot :p
<seb128> :-/
<didrocks> (they aren't sure if it's the 05 or 07)
<duflu> (me saw some complaints about AMD today where people said it happened around 7/10)
<didrocks> trying to get them on IRC to bisect
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> saw your typo fix on "artful*l*" duflu :p
<seb128> no gdm upload at least around those dates
<didrocks> yeah, could be mutter/G-Sâ¦
<duflu> didrocks, Mesa is often the cause of sudden graphical failures. And it got an upgrade on 5 Oct
<didrocks> good hint
<didrocks> yeah, it's a valid candidate
<seb128> tjaalton, ^
<duflu> To be fair, that should read "for cases of sudden graphical failures, a mesa upgrade is often the cause". More generally mesa does not "often" cause failures
<GunnarHj> Hi Laney, There might be some noise about bug #1722427 in your mailbox. Even if I succeeded in getting a fix into the archive yesterday, I'd appreciate your view on it.
<ubot5> bug 1722427 in Ubuntu Kylin "[error-report]error occurs when reading /etc/profile" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1722427
<GunnarHj> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/im-config/0.32-1ubuntu3
<GunnarHj> Is it acceptable for 17.10?
<Laney> GunnarHj: I guess the concern is hiding real errors there, right?
<Laney> like, why is that junk in stderr?
<Laney> but as for acceptable for release - well, someone on the release team accepted it so there's your answer :P
<GunnarHj> Laney: Precisely. Something I'm not sure about is if possible errors when using Fcitx later also will be discarded. If so, it's not ideal, and if there is a better solution I can SRU it.
<Laney> probably silence dbus-update-activation-environment and the other stuff
<Laney> that would involve hunting down where they are called from though
<GunnarHj> Laney: That would be over my head. My impression is that /etc/profile.d is a temporary thing for 17.10, and that the graphical systemd service will be working again in 18.04.
<seb128> didrocks, duflu, just for info there seems to be a least a kernel regression when using nouveau with displayp, bug #1723619, it's different from the issue discussed earlier but I'm mentioning it in case somebody on nouveau joins the bug with a "me too" so we can redirect him
<ubot5> bug 1723619 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Desktop ISO fails to boot with nouveau on a displayport" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723619
<didrocks> seb128: ahah, nicely spotted! Yeah, so that could be confusing
<andyrock> hey all
<duflu> seb128, Thanks. I used to have a GTX970 but not any more. Sounds like it's not a huge regression though, because AFAIK it hasn't worked in a while: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1613158
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1613158 in linux (Ubuntu) "Booting with Nvidia GTX 970 hangs with an orange/corrupt screen in kernels 4.8-4.11 (but works with 4.4.0)" [High,Confirmed]
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<andyrock> hey didrocks
<andyrock> how are you?
<didrocks> good thanks! but tired (didn't get a restful week-end due to son being sick), and you?
<andyrock> :/
<andyrock> I had a productive w-e
<andyrock> I finally found a new room
<andyrock> to move in
<didrocks> oh great! when are you planning to move?
<andyrock> so I don't have to spend next w-e looking for a flat
<andyrock> next monday
<andyrock> \o/
<Laney> didrocks: seb128: sorry, got jumped on for like 5 things so didn't reply to you properly
<Laney> beer fest was great as usual
<seb128> Laney, no worry :-)
<Laney> unusually warm, like 20Â°
<seb128> hey andyrock
<Laney> so we hung around outside for a while
<Laney> and I had the row to myself on the plane back so could sleep across the chairs
<Laney> was just like business class
<willcooke> Nice!
<Laney> hey willcooke
<Laney> get back ok?
<didrocks> free upgrade Â©
<didrocks> andyrock: waow, that's quick!
<willcooke> I got an empty seat next to me, but the person in front of me had their chair back right away.  So I stuck my knees in their back to make myself feel better.
<didrocks> andyrock: enjoy moving in :)
<andyrock> btw I found a way to reproduce
<andyrock> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/f738a467f5d04cbf9ac6cf7554a28bd064e4091a
<seb128> andyrock, how do you trigger it?
<andyrock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1720400/comments/2
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1720400 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/gnome-control-center:11:update_buffers:image_get_buffers:intel_update_image_buffers:intel_update_renderbuffers:intel_prepare_render" [High,Triaged]
<andyrock> seb128: ^^^
<andyrock> I'm working on it
<seb128> andyrock, thanks
<andyrock> trying to understand if I can fix it otherwise I'll ping the gnome-control-center guys
<seb128> andyrock, when you write "system should crash" do you mean g-c-c or the session or the kernel?
<andyrock> just g-c-c
<andyrock> I'll update that
<andyrock> thanks
<seb128> thx
<seb128> brb
<willcooke> jibel, would you be able to test https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1723312 today?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1723312 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Artful) "/usr/bin/gnome-software:11:g_variant_is_trusted:g_variant_builder_add_value:g_variant_valist_new:g_variant_new_va:g_variant_new" [Critical,Fix committed]
<didrocks> ok, I got on the impacted french guy not being able to start gdm on AMD to test during his lunch time at home some reverts, gave him instructions on the forum
<jibel> willcooke, I'm on it
<jibel> willcooke, everything looks good so far
<willcooke> merci jibel
<Laney> ooh
<Laney> gcal now has an option for UTC (no DST)
<duflu> Ugh. Europe morning.
 * duflu gives up retrying Launchpad timeouts
<willcooke> heh
<jibel> seb128, I select French / TZ=Paris and Ubiquity proposed an English kb. Hasn't it been fixed?
<jibel> today's build
<seb128> jibel, I don't know, it hasn't been worked on that I though
<seb128> we were unsure if the keyboard was supposed to match the tz selection
<seb128> the one which was fixed is that the layout was not changing when you selected another one
<GunnarHj> jibel, seb128: Previously the proposed kb was due to the selected language, while the tz selection added regional LC_* settings in /etc/default/locale.
<jibel> GunnarHj, yeah but it is not working. If I select French the default keyboard layout is english
<jibel> associating the layout to the tz does not make a lot of sense anyway
<GunnarHj> jibel: I see. Then it's a new bug. Agree that tz -> kb wouldn't make much sense, but that relation was not present previously either, right?
<jibel> GunnarHj, No I don't think it was.
<jibel> But I couldn't find any spec that describes the expected behaviour
<andyrock> looks like someone broke wpa2
<willcooke> andyrock, in Ubuntu or just generally?
<andyrock> in generally
<willcooke> ohhhhhh shii........
<andyrock> https://www.krackattacks.com/
<andyrock> there are news around
 * didrocks unplugs his router until a fix come in! EOW then? ;)
<willcooke> heh, night didrocks
 * duflu -> dinner
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> if only!
<didrocks> ok, so discourse integration is broken again, opening a topic manually
<didrocks> https://community.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-gnome-shell-in-artful-day-15/662
<didrocks> updated the blog post to point to it (at least, only people reading the blog post will have the link to comment ;))
<tjaalton> seb128: diff between mesa 17.2.1..17.2.2 doesn't seem too alarming, maybe could've been the kernel too. added a comment on the bug
<didrocks> tjaalton: could be, people mention that it broke between the 5th and 7th, I asked on the french forum for someone to try older mesa with detailed instructions on how to downgrade, we'll see how this workâ¦
<tjaalton> didrocks: ok, thanks
<tjaalton> it was a bugfix update, would be surprising if it broke in this way
<didrocks> yeah, if not, I'll ask to restart on an older kernel
<tjaalton> log diff https://pastebin.com/N9DtzfKp
<didrocks> at least, there 3 people we can get in touch with having the issue, this is the positive side of it :)
<tjaalton> yup
<seb128> jibel, btw I can't confirm that layout selection bug, if I boot in french then FranÃ§ais/azerty is pre-selected
<seb128> jibel, I pick the lang from the syslinux early boot and tried install only mode
<jibel> seb128, where do you select french?
<jibel> right in syslinugx
<jibel> but if you select french in ubiquity it's english
<seb128> oh, ok
<seb128> did that work in the past?
<seb128> I always use the syslinux first menu to select the language
<jibel> I think it did. I'll try in xenial
<seb128> thx
<amano> tjaalton, I was on 4.13.0.12 when noticing the regression. And reverted back to 4.13.0.11, which didn't change anything. So I don't think that a kernel update broke my Wayland on October 6th. I will try downgrading later in the evening anyway, but I don't have time now (my GF was just taken to the hospital with breathing probs).
<tjaalton> amano: artful had 4.12 not too long ago..
<tjaalton> 4.13.0-12 was the first release of the series that got in artful iirc
<amano> Oki. Will try to downgrade.
<amano> And it is not
<amano> Amd only, I have got an ION chipset which is nv50
<amano> ventrical has an old nvidia card as well
<jbicha_> Laney: fyi I pushed a fix for LP: #1719043 to our gtk3 bzr repo in case you manage to figure out the software-properties issue
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1719043 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Gnome web urlbar very slow to show typed input" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1719043
<Tribaal> hi all, where (which channel) is the community iso testing happening?
<Tribaal> I saw omething fly by on my twitter feed but can't find it again :/
<Laney> jbicha_: alright, trying to work on that bug
<Laney> cheers
<tjaalton> amano: so, not radeon which the bug was about?
<jibel> Tribaal, we are having an UbuntuOnAir tonight at 3PM UTC
<jibel> Tribaal, more infos on https://community.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-17-10-community-iso-testing/458
<Tribaal> jibel: thanks, that's what I was looking for :)
<jibel> yw :)
<Tribaal> I've been doing some of that over the weekend already, wanted to report/retest my findings
<jibel> thanks. It's the right place to go. I saw your bug with nouveau, in the meantime continue filing bugs
<amano> tjaalton, i can confirm now that it is still freezing on on 4.12.0.13 which is from early September
<tjaalton> amano: so another bug then
<didrocks> tjaalton: ok, mesa doesn't seem to be the issue for the ATI users
<didrocks> I'm asking them to revert the kernel now
<tjaalton> didrocks: cool
<mbiebl_> I just upgraded a test system from 17.04 to 17.10. The upgrade from Unity to GNOME was suprisingly smooth. Nice job
<mbiebl_> There are just some smaller issues
<seb128> mbiebl_, nice, thanks for the feedback :)
<mbiebl_> E.g. in libreoffice, when I browse through the menu
<seb128> mbiebl_, do you have a list?
<mbiebl_> and the window is not maximised (i.e. translucent)
<mbiebl_> it quickly switches between transparent and black
<mbiebl_> i.e. the top bar flickers
<mbiebl_> does anyone else see this or could this be a local configuration issue (this system has seen a few dist-upgrades)
<didrocks> mbiebl_: does the menu touch or is near the top panel by any chance when you are browing through it?
<seb128> mbiebl_, I see that as well, it does it with any application so not specific to libreoffice (just tried glade as well), I think it's a GNOME 3.26 bug
<seb128> it does the same when opening a menu
 * didrocks can't confirm, but I'm in a Xorg session right now
<seb128> didrocks, I guess menus are a special type of surface and they made the panel change state when they open
<didrocks> so window placements and detectionâ¦
<seb128> make
<didrocks> but the panel should only change state when in proximity from the panel
<didrocks> (or the dock in our case)
<seb128> didrocks, you are on an empty workspace? like no maximized win under yours?
<didrocks> like
<didrocks> yes
<seb128> k, maybe wayland specific
<seb128> and no, my glade is no near of any board
<seb128> it's a small win in the middle
<didrocks> so, wherever is the menu it's happening, interesting
<seb128> I think the menus just open maybe a surface in one position and then move it to dock to the cursor or something
<didrocks> I think upstream Shell issue, indeed (you should have the same in debian mbiebl_) as the dock only "plugs" itself proximity detection on it
<didrocks> so we don't have any distro-patch for this
<didrocks> let me see if there was a fix in the shell for proximity that dash to dock didn't backport
<mbiebl_> seb128: https://people.debian.org/~biebl/gnome-shell-topbar.webm
<didrocks> (as they did code copy)
<mbiebl_> didrocks: ^
<seb128> didrocks, it's a top panel issue, not a dock one
<didrocks> seb128: unsure, their state is linked
<seb128> k
<mbiebl_> actually, both the dock and the topbar flicker
<seb128> right
<didrocks> let me confirm it quickly with a second user, brb
<seb128> it's more visible on the panel with the text
<didrocks> yeah, the handler is "hooked"
<flexiondotorg> We're live at 15:00 UTC (in ~40 mins) over at UbuntuOnAir with some final ISO testing for #ubuntu 17.10. Join us! http://ubuntuonair.com/
<didrocks> mbiebl_: seb128: confirming, happening only on Wayland, and on the vanilla session as well (with no dock), so upstream issue
<didrocks> mbiebl_: mind opening a bugzilla issue against the Shell? (the presence detection code is there)
<didrocks> (and hey! long time no see ;))
<mbiebl_> didrocks: wasn't sure if it's an upstream issue
<didrocks> I didn't see it much here, my flickering is way faster
<mbiebl_> haven't seen this under debian
<didrocks> same machine ?
<mbiebl_> will try to confirm that there as well
<mbiebl_> yeah
<seb128> didrocks, could it be theme specific?
<didrocks> yeah, I guess you should have it too in debian
<didrocks> seb128: not really, well, maybe it's less visible with default theme because it's not a gradient
<didrocks> so quicker to paint
<didrocks> but there is no css magic or anything changing the behavior
<didrocks> (and nothing in the js)
<mbiebl_> didrocks: that the sidebar(dock) changes translucency as well is an Ubuntu specific change for now, right?
<mbiebl_> I don't see that in the default dash-to-dock as available on extensions.g.o
<didrocks> mbiebl_: indeed, the dock is, it syncs its state with the top bar one
<didrocks> mbiebl_: ah, it's in dash to dock, but they didn't release it yet AFAIK
<didrocks> we don't have any patch against dash to dock apart from changing the default with gsettings override
<mbiebl_> ok, maybe that's the reason I don't see that under debian then
<didrocks> (and removing the prefs)
<didrocks> you should still have the top bar flickering
<didrocks> in debian
<didrocks> I did try on a GNOME vanilla session
<didrocks> and still see it
<didrocks> (apt install gnome-session -> choose the gnome session in gdm)
<didrocks> no dock there
<didrocks> and default upstream theme
<didrocks> (unfortunately, you need to generally restart the gdm systemd service to get the session option showing up)
<mbiebl_> confirmed, happens under Debian as well
<seb128> ah :)
<mbiebl_> it was just not as visible
<seb128> good
<mbiebl_> and, more importantly
<mbiebl_> I forgot that I did run the Xorg session there :-)
<seb128> jibel, btw I tried a xenial issue, your keyboard selection bug is already there so it's nothing new
<didrocks> haha, double confirmation :-)
<didrocks> but yeah, harder to see with the default theme, I think it's the gradient being slower to paint
<mbiebl_> didrocks: will file an upstream gnome-shell bug report
<mbiebl_> thanks for the hint
<didrocks> thanks mbiebl_! do not hesitate if you see anything weird on our session compared to debian, we are not free of some issues on our sides :)
<jibel> seb128, thanks, nothing critical anyway
<seb128> indeed not
<seb128> mbiebl_, did you have other issues on your list?
<didrocks> seb128: tseliot: keeping you posted, kernel is out on the ATI issue, asking now to revert mutter
<didrocks> if you see anything else on the archive at that time that could be the cause, please shout
<seb128> didrocks, thanks (and you probably meant tjaalton ^)
<didrocks> oupsss
<didrocks> ;)
<seb128> :)
<mbiebl_> mbiebl_: the monitor config was gone after the upgrade
<seb128> right, another GNOME issue
<seb128> I think they changed the format what they moved the handling away from g-s-d
<mbiebl_> I have an external monitor
<seb128> I wonder if that's worth trying to do a migration :-/
<mbiebl_> when docked, I disable the internal one
<mbiebl_> (from the laptop)
<mbiebl_> after the upgrade both were active again
<mbiebl_> the input-field-follows-mouse on multi monitors was something I liked in lightdm btw
<mbiebl_> would be great if you could port that to gdm :-)
<mbiebl_> didrocks: what would be the right keyword / bug description for the gnome-shell bug?
<didrocks> mbiebl_: "[Wayland] top bar dynamic transparency flickers between transparent and solid when browing through menus" ?
<didrocks> or something along those lines
<mbiebl_> k, will use that one
<mbiebl_> my machine is 6 years old :-)
<mbiebl_> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789060
<ubot5> Gnome bug 789060 in general "[Wayland] top bar dynamic transparency flickers between transparent and solid when browing through menus" [Normal,New]
<mbiebl_> fwiw
<seb128> thx
<didrocks> perfect! I'll try to get a friend on fedora confirming as well
<tseliot> didrocks: what ATI issue?
<tseliot> didrocks: or was that meant for tjaalton? ^
<tjaalton> tseliot: yep
<tseliot> ok
<mbiebl_> didrocks: another small issue: the scrollbar in gnome-terminal shows a black border on the right side
<mbiebl_> which is one or two pixels larger then the window size
<mbiebl_> https://people.debian.org/~biebl/gnome-terminal-scrollbar.png
<Trevinho> hi guys
<kenvandine> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi ken
<jbicha_> mbiebl_: I believe that's upstream too (check with Adwaita on Wayland)
<mbiebl_> I'm also not sure, if unity is still supported in 17.10, but after recreating my monitor setup with g-c-c and trying to start the unity session (which was still installed after the dist-upgrade)
<mbiebl_> it is extremely unhappy with the config
<Trevinho> oh... monitors.xml...
<Trevinho> whe should move usd to use another file I gues too
<Trevinho> mbiebl_: file a bug please
<mbiebl_> Trevinho: which component?
<mbiebl_> jbicha_: hm, no, can't reproduce under Debian/GNOME/Wayland
<jbicha_> mbiebl_: I don't know, Debian is giving me X11 even when I choose "GNOME", see LP: #1720651
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1720651 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "Scrollbar drawing broken on wayland sesssion" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1720651
<didrocks> mbiebl_: nicely spotted! Could be our theme on that one, Trevinho wdyt ^ (https://people.debian.org/~biebl/gnome-terminal-scrollbar.png)
<didrocks> tjaalton: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/341059901/Upgrades the issue started between the 5 and the 7th, this is what was updated, any idea?
<didrocks> mutter was ruled out of scope
<jbicha> more specifically, the terminal issue could be in our gnome-terminal patches
<tjaalton> didrocks: and this is booting to gdm which uses wayland?
<didrocks> tjaalton: apparently yes (not showing up gdm). If they set EnabledWayland=false, it works from that day
<tjaalton> ok, so that should rule out xserver I guess
<didrocks> that's why I ruled out https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu
<didrocks> yep
<tjaalton> xserver synced from the stable tree in 2:1.19.3-1ubuntu7
<didrocks> apart if something like a fallback detection doesn't work anymore?
<tjaalton> thinking if something in xwayland support would cause it, but can't see how
<didrocks> hum, maybe not totally stupid to make them roll back xorg + affinities
<didrocks> at least to give a try
<dmj_s76> It would be good to get this fix into artful (either on the iso or at least as a zero-day SRU) so users can actually configure their multi-monitor setups.
<tjaalton> right
<tjaalton> dmj_s76: what fix?
<dmj_s76> this patch to the bug I pasted above:: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=361491
<tjaalton> dmj_s76: ok, didn't see the paste
<dmj_s76> currently mutter refuses to set a scaling factor when any display is below 800x600 resolution.  This means gnome control center (or any other method) will refuse to configure displays when you have a 1080p display plugged into a hidpi laptop (unless the user manually sets the hidpi screen to show insanely small)
<dmj_s76> The patch allows a scale factor to be set if *any* monitor supports it, rather than *every* monitor.
<didrocks> tjaalton: I'm out of ideas, xorg didn't work either
<jbicha> dmj_s76: could you open an Ubuntu bug for that issue? at this point in the release cycle, we need to attach LP bug numbers to issues and treat them like SRUs
<jbicha> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure for the bug template
<jbicha> *attach bug numbers to uploads
<dmj_s76> jbicha: on it
<amano> didrocks, i am happy to help bisecting the GDM/Mesa/X/Plymouth/whatever regression. Sorry, that I didn't notice your request but things got out of control when my girlfriend had to be taken to the hospital. She is fine now BTW, :)
<willcooke> ack
<willcooke> oops wrong channel
<flocculant> willcooke is never in the wrong channel even if it's #xubuntu-devel :)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> night all
<dmj_s76> jbicha: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1724024
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1724024 in mutter (Ubuntu) "can't set usable scale for hidpi internal display if when using external display less than 1600x1200" [Undecided,New]
<oSoMoN> good night all
<jbicha> dmj_s76: oh I forgot to mention that patch does not apply to the gnome-3-26 branch
<dmj_s76> jbicha: I'll rebase it
<sarnold> rbasak: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1710637 sounds related to what you found last week
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1710637 in console-setup (Ubuntu) "Input falls through to gdm3 and terminates the session on Ctrl+C after udevadm trigger is executed under wayland" [High,Fix released]
<Gargoyle> Think I found a big security hole after installing "dash to panel" and "disable ubuntu dock" extensions. Just searching and looking if it exists....
<Gargoyle> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wiyinog9969ibm/dash-dock-security.jpg?dl=0
<Gargoyle> Looks like it's the "Disable ubuntu dock" one...
<rbasak> sarnold: thanks. That sounds like exactly what I have. I have a high enough console-setup now, so let's see and hopefully it won't happen again.
<sarnold> rbasak: excellent
<Gargoyle> Back again. Found the source for the extension:- https://github.com/Maestroschan/Disable-Ubuntu-Dock/blob/master/extension.js
<Gargoyle> All it's doing is disabling 'ubuntu-dock@ubuntu.com' so I guess there's someone in an Ubuntu team that needs to fix it?
<jbicha> Gargoyle: https://github.com/Maestroschan/Disable-Ubuntu-Dock/issues/2
<jbicha> Ubuntu doesn't maintain or provide support for third-party extensions like that
<Gargoyle> Check the JS file. It's a whopping 21 lines.
<jbicha> and it's not Ubuntu's bug
<Gargoyle> I thought Ubuntu was using a customised version of DashToDock?
<jbicha> sorry, I don't have experience writing GNOME Shell extensions
<jbicha> I'm guessing that that extension doesn't have *enough* lines of code to work properly
<Gargoyle> jbicha, to me, it looks like it just proxies to "something" that looks like an official Ubuntu extension.
<Gargoyle> Looking into the official extension... Looks like it's just a fork of dash-to-dock.
<jbicha> yes, Ubuntu supports Ubuntu Dock (which is just a variation on Dash to Dock) but we don't support other extensions that try to modify Ubuntu Dock
<Gargoyle> By modify, all it is doing is disabling it.
<jbicha> but it's obviously not doing that correctly :(
<bittin_> popey or Wimpy or someone else that might know is it possible to update Ubuntu MATE to the 17.10 RC without reinstalling a laptop?
<dmj_s76> jbicha: try the new patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mutter/+bug/1724024
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1724024 in mutter (Ubuntu) "can't set usable scale for hidpi internal display if when using external display less than 1600x1200" [Medium,In progress]
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-10-17
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> morning
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> salut didrocks , Ã§a va ?
 * duflu returns and then leaves again to put on work clothes and fix 3 holes in the roof :P
<duflu> Without rain I would never know
<flocculant> without rain - you could leave it till another day :)
<didrocks> jibel: Ã§a va bien, et toi ?
<flocculant> morning didrocks :)
<jibel> didrocks, Ã§a va bien. trying to find a release critical bug ;)
<jibel> didrocks, then holidays next week before moving to a new house
<didrocks> hey flocculant
<didrocks> jibel: there is maybe this ATI one for you ;)
<didrocks> jibel: sounds nice! and good luck ;)
<jibel> terminal doesn't start in a live session on an uefi syste
<jibel> m
<jibel> same problem with the locale it seems
<didrocks> yeah, probably
<didrocks> I'm going to do a full reinstall on my main machine with current iso (but probably tomorrow morning)
<didrocks> didn't reinstall sinceâ¦ 2011!
<didrocks> cleaning up and migrating my home dir
<jibel> my main machine has been installed in 2010 and upgraded since then
<didrocks> even more hardcore :)
<didrocks> mine is 2011 due to laptop refresh :p
<jibel> why would you need to reinstall ?
<didrocks> it's more an excuse to clean up most of my -dev packages and other tools installed
<jibel> I run deborphan and deborphan -a from time to time to clean up stuff that accumulated over time
<jibel> dpigs is also useful to free some space
<flocculant> jibel: I regularly reinstall as I'm awesome at killing xubuntu with the dev ppa's we use :D
<didrocks> oh, I don't know about dpigs
 * didrocks looks
<jibel> bug 1724153
<ubot5> bug 1724153 in casper (Ubuntu) "gnome-terminal does not start in live session on an UEFI system" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724153
<jibel> didrocks, what's the bug # for the issue with ATI?
<didrocks> jibel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1723577
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1723577 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Artful won't start with Wayland activated (AMD?)" [High,Confirmed]
<didrocks> I think amano's one is different (he has nvidia), and is due to the kernel
<didrocks> at least 2 persons though confirms it so far
<didrocks> duflu: I see you suggested the same packages than I did there (directly on the french forum, as both persons impacted are there). Looking at the upgrade list, I'm a little bit out of ideas
<jibel> there is bug 1723619 too
<didrocks> I aksed for the gdm logs in debug mode
<ubot5> bug 1723619 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Desktop ISO fails to boot with nouveau on a displayport" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723619
<didrocks> yeah, I guess that's amano's one
<jibel> okay
<didrocks> on the ATI bug it worked until the 5-7th October
<didrocks> so, there is hope :)
<didrocks> we should write some revert program taking a date in /var/log/apt/history.log and reverting all upgraded package that day
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> (also, enabling rollbacking from a source package, with a particular version)
<didrocks> I might do it next cycle, would be easier for contributors/debug situations like this
<didrocks> hey seb128
<seb128> jibel, could be that the uefi issue is fixed by https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/1.387 ?
<seb128> just random guess, I saw that upload
<seb128> but it has no bug reference
<jibel> seb128, yes it should be. Respin is imminent
<seb128> I read that on #u-r, good
<Laney> ahoy
<didrocks> hey Laney
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
<willcooke> morning all
<seb128> hey willcooke
<Laney> hey didrocks seb128 willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<Laney> what's up?
 * Laney is good, nice climbing last night \m/
<didrocks> nothing special, still mostly baby-caring time as another full time job :p (especially now that he doesn't want to do his last nap :p)
<willcooke> didrocks, ahha!
<willcooke> didrocks, so it begins
<didrocks> it does!
<seb128> begins?!
<willcooke> First two naps, then one nap, then no nap, then they never. shut. the. hell. up.
<didrocks> is there still a probation period, can you send him back? :)
<jibel> pre-teens never. shut. the. hell. up. either ....
 * Laney nelson laugh
<duflu> didrocks, better to ask twice than not at all I guess.
<duflu> Hey, good news: I didn't kill myself when replacing roof tiles
<willcooke> glad to hear it duflu :))
<duflu> Ha. "Very high (near 100%) chance of showers with gusty winds in the evening."
<andyrock> hey all
<didrocks> hey andyrock
<willcooke> morning andyrock
<duflu> Hi andyrock
<duflu> willcooke, if I propose a patch to mutter today does that count as SRU yet?
<duflu> Hopefully not
<willcooke> Final freeze is in the past, so it might be.  seb128 or Laney will know for sure
<jbicha> duflu: yes, it will likely be an SRU (possibly zero-day) unless it gets uploaded immediately (there will be a [final?] respin soon)
<duflu> jbicha, gimme 60 seconds
<willcooke> morning jbicha
<duflu> jbicha, patch in the upstream bug link - https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-shell/+bug/1724185
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1724185 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Xwayland leaves no core dump when crashing" [High,New]
<didrocks> the respin will be started soon (waiting on some packages to publish), apart if there is another one, it will be a SRU
<didrocks> maybe you can bribe infinity
<didrocks> if the fixes are easy enough and warrant the wait for a respin
<jbicha> duflu: I don't see a patch?
<duflu> jbicha, it's the raw attachment inhttps://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789086
<ubot5> Gnome bug 789086 in wayland "Xwayland leaves no core dump when crashing" [Major,New]
<jbicha> oh there's 2 GNOME bugs for that LP bug
<duflu> jbicha, ok attached in LP
<Laney> not sure you should rush this in (seem Jonas's comment)
<jibel> why do you want it in the image? 0d SRU should be fine
<jbicha> Laney: where do you see Jonas' comment?
<didrocks> (on the upstream bug)
<duflu> Laney, yeah needs more work.
<duflu> But the top gnome-shell crasher was worth pushing for
<jbicha> duflu: ok, let's wait for that
<jbicha> (Jonas' comment wasn't there a few minutes ago ;) )
<jbicha> (let's wait  = let's not rush to get this patch in now)
<Laney> sure
<Laney> but if it wasn't I would have gone and asked him for an opinion :-)
<duflu> Yeah. Sad we don't have any clues yet - https://errors.ubuntu.com/?package=xwayland&period=year
<jbicha> seb128: for resizable tiling you need 2 things: mutter and gtk. There's enough mutter commits that reverting all of them doesn't make sense
<jbicha> see the Florian and Georges commits just before 3.26.1 https://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/log?h=gnome-3-26
<jbicha> you're right that the feature hasn't gotten much Ubuntu testing because gtk3 was stuck in artful-proposed :|
<duflu> jbicha, I noticed that. I have a gtk proposal behind yours
<jbicha> duflu: the update got stuck because of LP: #1721828
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1721828 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu Artful) "gtk 3.22.24 breaks software-properties tests (Gdk-Message: setup.py: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :99.)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721828
<duflu> jbicha, it's OK. My gtk proposal is less important than many other things
<seb128> jbicha, was->is, gtk is still stucked in proposed and it looks like it's not going to migrate for release
<duflu> OK, new mutter patch provided upstream. I need to run
<duflu> (no, we don't need it this week)
<willcooke> Can someone confirm this:  Go to control centre, search "users", click on it, long delay, finally opens?  Same with browsing Details -> Users there is a delay before the panel opens
<jibel> willcooke, what do you mean by "long delay" ?
<willcooke> ~ 5 seconds or so
<jibel> it's slower than other panel but not so much
<jibel> more like half a second here
<willcooke> it's about 7 seconds here
<willcooke> might just be me
<willcooke> can someone else check when they get a mo please
<andyrock> it's slower
<andyrock> not 7 seconds
<andyrock> but feels like a bug
<jibel> willcooke, same result on another machine, it is not what I would call slow
<willcooke> kk, must be me then
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> thanks jibel andyrock
<andyrock> maybe it depends on the number of users
<willcooke> Dont think so, since I first saw it when I was trying to add a new user
<willcooke> and it's the same now with 2 as it was with 1
<andyrock> there must me some sync operation
<seb128> willcooke, it's a known issue, was discussed at GUADEC by some of the fedora people, it's the new panel doing too much sync work on init
<willcooke> ah, ok!  thanks seb128
<willcooke> I'll add a known issue to the release notes then
<seb128> could people install gtk from proposed and give it a try?
<willcooke> doing now
<seb128> it's being pondered to move out of proposed to the iso
<seb128> thanks
<willcooke> seb128, anything I should look for
<willcooke> ?
<seb128> no, just if you find anything weird/buggy with it
<willcooke> ack
<seb128> willcooke, do you have an external webcam connected? is it less slow without it?
<willcooke> seb128, only the built in one
<seb128> k
<seb128> I was looking for open upstream bugs
<seb128> willcooke, but basically https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=783789
<ubot5> Gnome bug 783789 in User Accounts "User accounts panel is slow to open" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]
<seb128> which got marked as a duplicate of a cheese bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782627
<ubot5> Gnome bug 782627 in general "Cheese starts slowly" [Normal,Needinfo]
<seb128> is cheese slow to start for you?
<seb128> shrug, why is cheese listed twice in the dash?
<willcooke> interesting, yes it does
<willcooke> very slow
<willcooke> seb128, do you have the snap installed as well?
<seb128> k, good, so it's probably the same issue
<seb128> willcooke, lol, I do, good thinking :)
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> I installed it during the rally to help Ken to debug it
<seb128> kenvandine, btw did you ever manage to work on that/figure it out?
<kenvandine> seb128, no, i haven't gone back to it yet
<seb128> k, I might still have a look then :p
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, jbicha, new gtk seems to work fine for me
<willcooke> seb128, yeah, nothing bad happened here yet
<didrocks> after trying some reboots (in vms only, didn't want to restart my session), I confirm that I didn't spot anything after 30 minutes of testing and various apps
<didrocks> (with new gtk)
<seb128> didrocks, thanks for testing/confirming
<seb128> we should have forced migration that one some days ago :-/
<didrocks> agreed
<didrocks> or use the french community to test it at the same time
<didrocks> speaking of whichâ¦ let's ask them
<Laney> It wasn't clear that it was not a GTK bug
<Laney> I don't agree that we should have forced it
<Laney> (or I would have argued for that and then probably done it)
<seb128> well either wait we should have ignored it stucked in proposed for so long, it feels like we ended up having to make a bad call late
<seb128> either reject or land without margin to get feedback about issues
<Laney> I did not ignore it
<seb128> should *not*
<Laney> I was working on that bug for days
<seb128> I don't say you did
<seb128> but we delayed taking a decision too long imho
<Laney> ok, I disagree with you but no need to argue there
<seb128> we should as a team have discussion ours options when it was becoming late
<seb128> discussed
<seb128> k, fair
<seb128> I just don't like to land it that late, unsure how we could have avoided that though
<willcooke> Meeting time
<jbicha> o/
<kenvandine> \o
<andyrock> o/
<willcooke> Roll call:  andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<seb128> o/
<oSoMoN> o/
<heber> o/
<didrocks> hey!
<jibel> hi
<willcooke> Looks like we have enough people to get started.
<willcooke> #topic andyrock
<andyrock> hey
<andyrock> 1. Spotting apport issues
<andyrock> 2. Some work on livepatch dekstop integratation
<andyrock> 3. Working on this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1723301 (I have a possible fix but not a way to reproduce this, so upstream asked me to try a way to reproduce this)
<andyrock> 4. Working on this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1720400 (found a way to reproduce, trying to fix it)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1723301 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in meta_wayland_surface_ensure_inhibit_shortcuts_dialog()" [Medium,In progress]
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1720400 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/gnome-control-center:11:update_buffers:image_get_buffers:intel_update_image_buffers:intel_update_renderbuffers:intel_prepare_render" [High,Triaged]
<andyrock> eow
<willcooke> Thanks andyrock
<willcooke> any other bugs assigned for release andyrock?
<andyrock> nope
<willcooke> cool,
<willcooke> thanks
<andyrock> I'm trying to fix some crashes around
<andyrock> but nothing blocking
<willcooke> great
<willcooke> #topic dgadomski
<dgadomski> hey
<dgadomski> only 1 thing in desktop area: I was able to reproduce bug #1718688 with hostapd, checking wpasupplicant source code to fix it
<ubot5> bug 1718688 in linux (Ubuntu) "Can't connect to a Cisco AP with Wi-Fi Direct Client Policy enabled" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718688
<dgadomski> eof
<willcooke> thanks dgadomski
<willcooke> #topic didrocks
<didrocks> * Settings: fix background selection color and only apply the theme change to our ones.
<didrocks> * Update to 3.26.1 & fix gnome-session migration for people running rhythmbox. Fix later a crasher for people not having it installed! Also make the "on Xorg" part translatable.
<didrocks> * More Marco's theme reviews and discussion. Sponsored his work.
<didrocks> * Cherry-pick fix for focus on GNOME Shell.
<didrocks> * Tried to debug gdm for second user selection, found the regression, but a proper fix is complex and needs more digging
<didrocks> * Review & discuss gdm fix for fallback session with Olivier
<didrocks> * More community interactions on our hub
<didrocks> * Worked with the french community (currently in progress) to debug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm3/+bug/1723577
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1723577 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Artful won't start with Wayland activated (AMD?)" [High,Confirmed]
<didrocks> * Did some VM iso testing will do a real install tomorrow.
<didrocks> * Write a blog post for the past week changes: https://didrocks.fr/2017/10/16/ubuntu-gnome-shell-in-artful-day-15/
<didrocks> * Discussed with IS and p_opey, about discourse integration, which worked, didn't work and worked for a few hours without doing anything. Filed a RT now to get that properly tracked. Fallbacked to manual link posted (which probably refrain from getting comments).
<didrocks> No RC bug assigned to me remaining
<didrocks> .
<willcooke> thanks didrocks
<willcooke> seems I forgot to start the meeting properly.
<willcooke> never mind
<willcooke> #topic duflu
<willcooke> * Totem CPU usage (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1698282)
<willcooke>   - RELEASED the main totem CPU fix (to Debian actually): https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clutter-gtk/1.8.4-2
<willcooke>   - The patch is also upstream awaiting review still.
<willcooke>   - Re-profiled totem/gst-play-1.0 and provided status updates in: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1698282
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1698282 in clutter-gst-3.0 (Ubuntu) "Totem uses dramatically higher CPU than any other video player" [Medium,Confirmed]
<willcooke>   - Temporarily finished this task? AFAIK the only remaining improvement is DMAbuf support which upstream has in progress already. Perhaps I will context switch away from this for a while and only step in again later if they haven't made progress on DMA-buf...
<willcooke> * Totem stuttering (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1698270)
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1698270 in totem (Ubuntu) "Totem pauses and stutters during video playback even when CPU usage is low" [High,In progress]
<willcooke>   - Spent more hours retesting and trying to improve the GDK smoothness fix: https://code.launchpad.net/~vanvugt/gtk/fix-1698270/+merge/331846 (needs sponsorship)
<willcooke>   - The good news is the above fix still works well in totem, gnome-maps and gdkgears. And seemingly can't be improved.
<willcooke>   - Spent more hours analysing the clutter code again to see if another fix needs to go in there too. Probably not, so long as the GDK fix lands.
<willcooke>   - Spent more hours trying to identify why totem and only totem stutters badly on disk IO, in one place (yet other gstreamer apps don't). SUCCESS: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788926 (although it now seems upstream has known about it since 2014 and the old bug report just wasn't adequately worded to notice :/)
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788926 in general "Video playback pauses/stutters while totem writes to ~/.config/totem/session_state.xspf" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]
<willcooke>   - WORK IN PROGRESS on a final fix for totem/totem-pl-parser.
<willcooke> * Appearance (https://trello.com/c/YgueNEZA/260-bug1714459-shell-panel-font-is-blurry-under-wayland)
<willcooke>   - Iterated my fix for shell font rendering options a couple of times and proposed upstream again: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=645433
<ubot5> Gnome bug 645433 in wayland "gnome-shell's panel ignores font settings" [Normal,Assigned]
<willcooke> * Daily bug management across gnome-shell, mutter, gdm3, ubuntu-themes, bluez, pulseaudio, dkms and mir.
<willcooke> (going to keep using the # commands so that I can parse the logs)
<willcooke> #topic jbicha
<jbicha> â¢ robert_ancell's file-roller squashfs/snap patch is now upstream (after I poked the maintainer) https://bugzilla.gnome.org/662519
<ubot5> Gnome bug 662519 in general "support for squashfs filesystem images" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]
<jbicha> â¢ smcv got mozjs52 to build on s390x in Debian so I uploaded gnome-shell and friends to Debian unstable
<jbicha> â¢ Fixed and pushed upstream LP: #1723266
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1723266 in Caribou "Hide Caribou from Startup Applications" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723266
<jbicha> â¢ Disabled the non-working Actions for LP: #1720262
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1720262 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-screenshot Actions don't work in default Ubuntu 17.10 session" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1720262
<jbicha> â¢ Rebased our patches to re-enable GNOME Builder's Terminal LP: #1722953
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1722953 in gnome-builder (Ubuntu) "Builder 3.26: Re-enable terminal plugin" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1722953
<jbicha> â¢ Sponsoring some mutter cherry-picked patches to artful
<jbicha> â¢ (no remaining rc bugs here) eof
<willcooke> thanks jbicha
<willcooke> #topic jamesh
<willcooke> No update this week.
<willcooke> :(
<willcooke> #topic jibel / heber
<heber> hey
<heber> QA updates:
<heber> * Wrote multi-monitor test cases
<heber> * Release candidates testing (new image coming soon)
<heber> * Daily bug triaging
<heber> * See ubiquity and upgrade jobs that are failing
<heber> * Add snap helpers to ubuntu-system-tests
<heber> * Continue with gnome-shell test runner
<heber> EOF
<willcooke> thanks heber
<jibel> just a note about the release
<willcooke> #topic kenvandine
<jibel> we are waiting for a new image to fix bug 1724224
<ubot5> bug 1724224 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with FileNotFoundError in _execute_child(): [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'sensible-browser': 'sensible-browser'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724224
<willcooke> oops carry on jibel
<jibel> and new translation for kylin
<jibel> done
<kenvandine> * Worked on the GNOME SDK build snap, still missing quite a bit of stuff but it builds with glib, gtk, vala, and some other basics now.
<kenvandine> * Remmina fixes have been merged upstream and in the edge channel of the store
<kenvandine> * Added a couple new GNOME snaps
<kenvandine> * Doing some cross distro snap testing in preparation for a blog post on running the latest GNOME apps as snaps
<kenvandine> * No RC bugs assigned
<willcooke> thanks jibel
<kenvandine> found our snaps don't work on fedora :(
<kenvandine> because of /snap not being used
<kenvandine> popey is going to escalate that issue
<seb128> haha
<willcooke> thanks kenvandine
<kenvandine> works great on debian and mint though :)
<seb128> "told you if would be an issue"
<willcooke> great news on remmina too
<kenvandine> seb128, yup :)
<kenvandine> eof
<willcooke> #topic Laney
<Laney> â¢ Went back to NYC
<Laney> â¢ Had a few meetings and 18.04 plan discussions, saw the plans of other teams
<Laney> â¢ Helped identify apport being broken, thanks Brian for fixing that
<Laney> â¢ Looked at gnome-software shell extensions category view being empty
<Laney> â¢ Spent a long long time looking into LP: #1721828, eventually fixed in the software-properties testsuite (that was my rls-aa-tracking bug)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1721828 in software-properties (Ubuntu Artful) "gtk 3.22.24 breaks software-properties tests (Gdk-Message: setup.py: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :99.)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721828
<Laney> â¢ A lot of queue reviews
<Laney> ð
<willcooke> thanks Laney
<willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey
<oSoMoN> â¢ approved https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/gdm/language-switching/+merge/331980
<oSoMoN> â¢ continued discussing bug #1718446 and proposed a patch that got accepted upstream, now preparing a SRU to land it asap after release
<ubot5> bug 1718446 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Ensure wayland -> xorg fallback to the corresponding session" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718446
<oSoMoN> â¢ managed to get chromium 62 (current beta, to become stable this week) to build on trusty amd64 and i386 with a backported clang 4.0 and a rather manageable distro patch, looking into armhf failure (linker OOM it seems)
<oSoMoN> â¢ updating chromium dev to 63.0.3236.7
<oSoMoN> â¢ some progress on bug #1697641, a11y was working in chromium at some point in the not too distant past, but it regressed â even then, OSK was not working so some more work will be required
<ubot5> bug 1697641 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Chromium doesn't open OSK under GNOME Shell" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1697641
<oSoMoN> â¢ gotta prepare libreoffice 5.4.2 SRU as IÂ didn't have time for it before final freeze
<oSoMoN> EOF
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
<didrocks> oSoMoN: can we try to get the fix in proposed tomorrow?
<oSoMoN> didrocks, yes, on it
<didrocks> oSoMoN: so that we release it in -updates quickly after the release
<didrocks> as it's for upgrades
<didrocks> great!
<didrocks> thanks :)
<willcooke> #topic seb128
<seb128> - daily review of recent artful bugs and e.u.c reports
<seb128> - some iso testing
<seb128> - restored a part of the g-s-d patch dropped to fix the suspend on login issue (schemas still needed by u-s-d)
<seb128> - discussed dh_translations vs meson a bit with Didier
<seb128> - debugged/fixes outdated translations in launchpad on some projects due to translations sharing
<seb128> - backported a libimobiledevice ios11 fix
<seb128> - workarounded for duplicate items in the notifications panel in g-c-c
<seb128> - debugged apport not starting with andyrock
<seb128> - wrote an uncomplete patch for orca not starting in ubiquity describing the issue and how a fix could work, hopefully somebody from the ubiquity team pick up from there
<seb128> - did another g-s-d regression fix, thanks to a contributor who pointed the merge error
<seb128> </week>
<willcooke> thanks seb128
<willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
<tkamppeter> - UDEV/systemd: Further testing on the problem with the USB printer auto setup not working. Reported bug to systemd upstream but no answer yet.
<tkamppeter> - ippusbxd: Updated documentation upstream (readme.md).
<tkamppeter> - avahi: Rithvik already started studying the localhost support problem for IPP-over-USB.
<tkamppeter> - Bugs.
<willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
<willcooke> #topic Trevinho
<willcooke> Â· Further fixes in the suggested-action button
<willcooke> Â· Improvements to the inverted gradient on maximized windows
<willcooke> Â· Lots of debugging in mutter and GS crashes
<willcooke>   (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=786557,
<willcooke>    https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782385,
<willcooke>    https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788971)
<ubot5> Gnome bug 786557 in lock-screen "Input on lock-screen, gnome-shell crashes" [Critical,New]
<willcooke> Â· Some refactoring in mutter MetaScreen in order to fix a major crash
<ubot5> Gnome bug 782385 in Backend: X11 "X session crashes when undocking or switching off an external monitor" [Normal,New]
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788971 in wayland "gnome-shell crashed in meta_display_get_current_time_roundtrip on resume from suspend" [Major,Assigned]
<willcooke>   (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788860)
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788860 in general "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in meta_workspace_get_work_area_for_monitor()" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<willcooke> Â· Looking into a way to get better JS dumps on GS crashes (seems to work)
<willcooke> Â· Currently debugging https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788627
<tkamppeter> And good news for a11y: Large mouse cursor is finally working (using gdm as greeter) congrats to who fixed it.
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788627 in general "Crash in gnome-shell blur_pixels(): failed to allocate 18446744072098939136 bytes" [Major,New]
<willcooke> which
<willcooke>   I can reproduce (or similar
<willcooke> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788908)
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788908 in st "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in clutter_actor_get_allocation_box (from _st_create_shadow_pipeline_from_actor)" [Normal,New]
<willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
<willcooke> - Fix RC critical crash in gnome-software (LP: #1723312)
<willcooke> - Fix async operation cancelling not working in snapd-glib
<willcooke> - snapd-glib refactoring
<willcooke> - simple-scan 3.27.1 releas
<willcooke> #topic APB
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1723312 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Artful) "/usr/bin/gnome-software:11:g_variant_is_trusted:g_variant_builder_add_value:g_variant_valist_new:g_variant_new_va:g_variant_new" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723312
<willcooke> Anyone got anything?
<tkamppeter> And good news for a11y: Large mouse cursor is finally working (using gdm as greeter) congrats to who fixed it.
<willcooke> ah, nice!  Good spot tkamppeter, and thanks to whoever fixed it
<seb128> tkamppeter, nice
<jbicha> willcooke: did we want to discuss some bugs from http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-incoming-bug-tasks.html ?
<willcooke> Yeah, lets take a look:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/backintime/+bug/1713313
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1713313 in xdiagnose (Ubuntu) "Unable to launch pkexec'ed applications on Wayland session" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tkamppeter> I have some vision problem and over the 20 years I used Unix/Linux the mouse cursor was always too small and never a way to get it bigger.
<willcooke> I dont think there is much we can do about that bug for release is there?
<jbicha> tkamppeter: :)
<didrocks> I don't think we can, apart from the xhost arg, but I think it's a little bit counter-productive
<jbicha> 1713313 is already release-noted
<willcooke> ack
<seb128> right, -notfixing imho
<didrocks> and then, we can take that into account for the LTS plan
<jbicha> maybe there's a way in 18.04 we could notify the user *why* the pkexec app doesn't work at the time it's attempted
<willcooke> +1, what's the correct tag? rls-aa-notfixing - or is there something more desktop team specific we can use?
<willcooke> +1 was at notfixing
<didrocks> jbicha: for those using pkexec, but doesn't work for the traditional "sudo nautilus" that people do
<seb128> I think that's the correct one
<willcooke> k, next..
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gst-plugins-ugly1.0/+bug/1723599
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1723599 in gst-plugins-ugly1.0 (Ubuntu) "Fails to associate decoder-video/x-ms-asf with gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> that's just a bug, nothing important for the release
<seb128> Laney, ^ you might know where to reassign/what component might get it wrong?
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whoopsie/+bug/1720331  is already assigned to jamesh
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1720331 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Whoopsie continually relaunching" [Low,Triaged]
<seb128> is that still using the Gstreamer-Decoders info from the package description?
<seb128> willcooke, that one is probably -notfixing since jamesh fixed the issue in whoopsie, the control center side is nice to land but not an important issue at this point
<willcooke> yeah
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fwupd/+bug/1717009
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1717009 in fwupd (Ubuntu) "fwupd breaking access to certain usb devices" [High,In progress]
<willcooke> fixed upstream
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> would have to dig
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1707898
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1707898 in systemd (Ubuntu) "systemd translations are not synced with upstream" [Critical,New]
<willcooke> we're being pinged on that one by x_nox
<seb128> willcooke, the fwupd is foundations and has been fixed upstream
<seb128> right, I've the systemd one in a tab, I'm going to comment after the meeting
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1710377
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1710377 in software-properties (Ubuntu) ""Additional Drivers" desktop shortcut missing in Ubuntu 17.10" [Low,New]
<willcooke> seb128 has already updated
<seb128> Laney, k, well you did the switch to g-s for codecs install so you might have an idea where to look, if you want to do that when there is a more quiet time post release that would be nice
<seb128> willcooke, right
<Laney> ok
<seb128> thx
<jbicha> the Additional Drivers bug is won't fix for artful, right?
<Laney> feel free to assign me
<willcooke> k, I think that's the end of the list
<seb128> jbicha, well at least for release, wouldn't be impossible to SRU if we think it's worth
<jbicha> thoughts on LP: #1707352 ? should we release-note it?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1707352 in sane-backends (Ubuntu) "the change from libsane to libsane1 broke many (all?) 3rd party plug-ins for sane" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1707352
<didrocks> any reason it's missing? it's just an oversight, correct?
<didrocks> (we didn't really test it, but I don't think it had been broken?)
<jbicha> didrocks: my comment on the bugs says that the current icon will look bad in vanilla GNOME
<seb128> jbicha, that seems unfortunate :-/ did you talk to robert about it?
<jbicha> seb128: no but I can ask him later
<didrocks> jbicha: hum, indeed, but the functionality is still important in some waysâ¦ I guess if we balance that with the icon lookâ¦
<jbicha> didrocks: but at this point it's a user interface change so I'm suggesting we fix the !Humanity icon too if we're going to do an SRU
<czajkowski> c
<Laney> cockatrice
<willcooke> vowel please Carol
<didrocks> yes, fair enough, we'll need someone to have icon design experience then
<willcooke> kk, let's wrap the meeting (since meeting ology isnt running it doesnt really make any difference)
<willcooke> #endmeeting
<willcooke> Please carry on if you need to though
<seb128> thanks
<didrocks> thx!
<jbicha> didrocks: I thought the faenza 'jockey' icon looked good when I looked a year ago but I never got a reply from Matthieu James when I asked him about re-using it
<oSoMoN> thanks
<didrocks> jbicha: when did you ask, recently?
<jbicha> I emailed him @canonical.com Aug 18 2016 and @gmail a few days ago
<jbicha> I don't know if he left Canonical at some point so maybe didn't get the first email?
<tkamppeter> Anyone already has copied MP3 (or Music in general) to an Android phone with Artful?
<jibel> I didn't but saw a recent report about a crash of mtp
<didrocks> jbicha: he isn't around anymore, but he was still here in 2016, I don't know more than you how to reach him though
<didrocks> what license is faenza?
<jbicha> it appeared to be GPL-3+ so that's why I asked. (software-properties is GPL-2+). I think we could probably use the icon without re-licensing though, right?
<jibel> tkamppeter, why are you asking?
<seb128> there is a gvfsd-mtp segfault high on artful e.u.c report
<jibel> tkamppeter, bug 1724075 bug 1723815
<ubot5> bug 1724075 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfsd-mtp crashed with SIGSEGV in __strlen_avx2()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724075
<ubot5> bug 1723815 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "Unable to show files on MTP connection" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723815
<tkamppeter> jibel, I get mtp crashes a lot, not on my attempts to tranfer music (it simply says that it cannot write onto the phone) but on connecting/disconnecting(?) the phone.
<seb128> but I've been replacing the binary by a wrapper under valgrind for a few weeks and don't error
<seb128> bug #1718694
<ubot5> bug 1718694 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-mtp:11:unregister_mount_got_proxy_cb:g_task_return_now:g_task_return:init_second_async_cb:g_task_return_now" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718694
<seb128> k, need to go/move location, back in a bit
<tkamppeter> jibel, thanks, looks like a feature which we have to skip in Artful. Or is there some special trick/workaround.
<jibel> honestly it seems in a bad shape. something to fix for 18.04 and SRU if possible
<tkamppeter> jibel, so I think the best  is to ask seb128 how to apply his workaround with valgrind.
<didrocks> jbicha: thanks for the mail! I don't have a strong opinion on it, need to think about this with a fresh brain
<jbicha> didrocks: take your time, the underlying issue has been there for years already ;)
<didrocks> yeah ;)
<jbicha> I worked around it for Ubuntu GNOME and forgot about it until I saw the new bug
<tkamppeter> seb128, what did you exactly do with Valgrind to work around the mtp crash bugs.
<tkamppeter> ?
<tkamppeter> seb128, which binary did you replace by a Valgrind wrapper and how did you call Valgrind for that? Can you send me your wrapper script?
<seb128> tkamppeter, well maybe I don't know how to trigger the bug, but what I did was basically
<seb128> - sudo mv /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-mtp /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-mtp.bin
<seb128> - sudo editor /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-mtp
<seb128> with that content
<seb128> #!/bin/sh
<seb128> export G_SLICE=always-malloc G_DEBUG=gc-friendly
<seb128> valgrind -v --tool=memcheck --leak-check=no --log-file=/tmp/gvfs.%p /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-mtp.bin $@
<seb128> - sudo chmod +x /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-mtp
<seb128> then restarted the session
<seb128> and it logs files in /tmp/gvfs.<pid>
<seb128> if you get an error you should have an invalid read/write
<seb128> better if you have a dbg of gvfs
<seb128> tkamppeter, what do you do to trigger the issue?
<tkamppeter> seb128, first thanks for the hint, applied the commands. Before restarting my session I will answer your question.
<seb128> tkamppeter, in fact you don't need to restart the session I think
<seb128> if gvfsd-mtp hit the bug it will close and restart a new instance
<seb128> try and see if you get a log in /tmp
<tkamppeter> seb128, gvfsd-mtp crashes practically always when I disconnect the phone, and this happened often to me, charging the phone's battery with my laptop.
<tkamppeter> seb128, Now I also want to transfer music files and here I always get errors that I cannot write on the device, with both GNOME File Manager and Rhythmbox.
<tkamppeter> Not yet restarted the session and still cannot write to my device.
<tkamppeter> Will restart the session now.
<tkamppeter> seb128, No gvfs-mtp process and also no appropriate log file in /tmp
<tkamppeter> seb128, Sorry, valgrind  was not installed, one moment please.
<tkamppeter> seb128, after installing valgrind, replugging the device and starting rhythmbox the device appears again.
<tkamppeter> seb128, and when I copy a music file to it I do not get an error message any more that I cannot write to the device, but the music file does not appear on the device.
<tkamppeter> seb128, here is the log file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25760200/
<tkamppeter> seb128, will try to restart again.
<tkamppeter> seb128, restarted the machine, unlocked the screen of the device and on the device I tried once "MTP" and once"Media device USB 3.0" and in both cases I get "Could not transfer track, could not open resource for writing".
<tkamppeter> seb128, new log file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25760249/
<tkamppeter> seb128, and another: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25760262/
<oSoMoN> Laney, cheers
<Laney> cheers to you
<Laney> I looked a bit for how to fix that no session selected issue
<Laney> would be annoying
<oSoMoN> yeah
<seb128> tkamppeter, you have errors in there but no dbg, can you install libglib2.0-0-dbgsym and maybe do a DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nostrip build from gvfs and copy that non stripped binary as gvfsd-mtp.bin?
<seb128> ==5038==    by 0x53B3F3D: ??? (in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgio-2.0.so.0.5400.1)
<seb128> ==5038==    by 0x539193F: g_content_type_guess (in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgio-2.0.so.0.5400.1)
<seb128> ==5038==    by 0x10E3B4: ??? (in /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfsd-mtp.bin)
<Laney> night!
<oSoMoN> gânight Laney
<oSoMoN> seb128, I've prepared source packages at https://people.canonical.com/~osomon/bug1718446/, can you upload them for me? I'll prepare the SRU paperwork after dinner
<tkamppeter> seb128, how do I install libglib2.0-0-dbgsym, "sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-0-dbgsym" does not work.
<jbicha> tkamppeter: have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debug%20Symbol%20Packages ?
<tkamppeter> jbicha, thanks
<willcooke> night all
<tkamppeter> seb128, jbicha: Everything installed as you asked for. restarting.
<tkamppeter> seb128, jbicha, http://paste.ubuntu.com/25760647/
<tkamppeter> seb128, jbicha: same error, new log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25760647/
<tkamppeter> seb128, jbicha: Also this crash happened during my tests: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/valgrind/+bug/1724323
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1724323 in valgrind (Ubuntu) "memcheck-amd64-linux crashed with SIGSEGV" [Undecided,New]
<amano> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1723619 is not my issue. I tried the new kernel with the revert and it took me again 3 reboots to have GDM starting up.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1723619 in linux (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Desktop ISO fails to boot with nouveau on a displayport" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<amano> uname -r
<amano> 4.14.0-rc5-lp1723619+revert
<seb128> tkamppeter_, thanks for the new log, that has debug infos indeed
<tkamppeter_> seb128, yw, hope that it brings us closer to the cause of the problem. This also an important feature.
<tkamppeter_> seb128, please subscribe me to the bug report in which you will handle this so that I can test the fix to verify the SRU.
<seb128> tkamppeter_, sure, did you report the gvfs segfault to launchpad/using apport?
<tkamppeter_> No, the segfault which I reported was on valgrind (or somethin underlying).
<tkamppeter_> seb128, bug 1724323
<ubot5> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1724323 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724323). The error has been logged
<seb128> tkamppeter_ it might be useful to report the gvfs one if you have a report in /var/crash
<Tribaal> hi all, what is the canonical way to install the nvidia drivers in 17.10? I'm writing some kind of tutorial for end users, so I was going to suggest the "additional drivers" thing but I can't seem to find it?
<tkamppeter_> seb128, Services asked for by UDEV do not get triggered
<tkamppeter_> seb128, sorry, [Bug 1724323] [NEW] memcheck-amd64-linux crashed with SIGSEGV
<ubot5> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1724323 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724323). The error has been logged
<Tribaal> (that's to workaround a nouveau bug in 17.10)
<tkamppeter_> seb128, today I did not a crash report of gvfs-mtp but otherwise I got one nearly every day: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1706097 and duplicates.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1706097 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfsd-mtp crashed with SIGSEGV" [Critical,Confirmed]
<seb128> tkamppeter_, thanks
<seb128> tkamppeter_, do you know what steps you take to trigger the segfault? does it happen just when you plug your phone? or unlock it?
<tkamppeter_> seb128, but for these I did not try to copy anything to my phone. AFAIK they were triggered by connecting/disconnecting the phone for charging its battery.
<tkamppeter> seb128, the report happened delayed, usually after next boot, so I cannot really know whether the trigger was connect, disconnect, or unlock.
<seb128> ok
<seb128> you might be able to tell from the time recorded in the crash
<seb128> Tribaal, it's in software-properties, is bug #1710377 what is confusing you?
<ubot5> bug 1710377 in software-properties (Ubuntu) ""Additional Drivers" desktop shortcut missing in Ubuntu 17.10" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1710377
<seb128> jbicha, ^ maybe some data point
<Tribaal> seb128: huh! Indeed I guess I was confused by this. I found "ubuntu-drivers" which nicely allowed me to have a CLI equivalent though.
<flocculant> jbicha: just saw someone in #ubuntu+1 commenting on gnome-terminal - seems f11 on terminal - repeatedly - leads to terminal shrinkage, https://i.imgur.com/oNZ4yi5.png < this was quite a bit of f11 on my part in a vm, just thought I'd pass that along
<Beret> I know there's a duplicate about this
<Beret> we know that automatic timezone doesn't work in artful right?
<Beret> I vaguely remember having a conversation about it already
<Beret> probably at the rally
<jbicha> Beret: LP: #1720829 is the only one I'm aware of, assuming you haven't turned off Settings>Privacy>Location Services
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1720829 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Calendar shows wrong day (Sun. Oct. 2nd instead of Mon Oct. 2nd)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1720829
<vithiri> Beret: "I vaguely remember" makes it sound like one awesome rally.
<Beret> hahaha
<Beret> I've probably had 300 meetings over the last few weeks - they tend to all run together
<Beret> I forgot what was only in my head versus what was discussed
<Beret> but yeah, it wasn't bad :)
<vithiri> So, what's the issue with the automatic timezone? I recall having the correct timezone picked during installation.
<jbicha> robert_ancell: hi
<robert_ancell> jbicha: hello
<jbicha> thoughts on LP: #1707352 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1707352 in sane-backends (Ubuntu) "the change from libsane to libsane1 broke many (all?) 3rd party plug-ins for sane" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1707352
<robert_ancell> jbicha: I think we should roll back to the older libsane to not break things.
<jbicha> so 1.0.25+git20150528-1ubuntu4 instead?
<jbicha> it's rather late for that kind of changeâ¦
<jbicha> (sorry I didn't think to specifically ping you about this issue sooner)
<robert_ancell> sane is a pain in that they don't do releases.
<robert_ancell> Yeah, but I guess it has to work with third party drivers since they are commonly used.
<jbicha> are you sure they don't? http://www.sane-project.org/
<jbicha> what about just adding Provides: libsane ?
<jbicha> I had trouble getting the Debian maintainer to respond to my comments :(
<robert_ancell> jbicha: afaict the sane maintainers are effectively Debian.
<robert_ancell> If the provides works then do that I guess? You probably know more about this than me.
<robert_ancell> I've looked at updating the sane-backends package a number of times but it's too hard given upstreams lack of clarity.
<jbicha> they use Alioth but it looks like sane upstream is different than the Debian packager
<jbicha> https://anonscm.debian.org/git/sane/sane-backends.git/
<jbicha> packaging: https://anonscm.debian.org/git/collab-maint/sane-backends.git
<robert_ancell> oh, ok
<jbicha> I don't have a scanner, PeterPall suggests that adding the Provides might work for any scanner drivers distributed as a .deb
<jbicha> I don't know how common that is
<jbicha> he suggested that at https://bugs.debian.org/870078 and no real response from the Debian maintainer :(
<ubot5> Debian bug 870078 in libsane1 "libsane1 breaks all 3rd party scanner drivers" [Important,Open]
<robert_ancell> jbicha: I think there are drivers delivered by debs
<jbicha> do you have any hardware like that?
 * robert_ancell looks
<jbicha> I'm just wondering how we would verify that an SRU to add the Provides would help for real-world cases
<robert_ancell> jbicha: I'm looking at the brscan package (http://support.brother.com/g/b/downloadlist.aspx?c=us&lang=en&prod=mfcj5620dw_us_eu&os=128)
<robert_ancell> which is what my scanner uses.
<robert_ancell> Looks like it doesn't have a specific dependency on libsane
<robert_ancell> But the provides seems like a reasonable thing to do if the package has renamed but is otherwise identical?
<jbicha> sane-backends/zesty's libsane had libsane.so.1.0.25 and artful's libsane1 has libsane.so.1.0.27 so it seems like the Provides makes sense
<jbicha> I guess the Debian maintainer just wanted to fix the Lintian warning package-name-doesnt-match-sonames
<jbicha> :(
<jbicha> I'll prepare an SRU and hope the SRU Team doesn't mind the difficulty in verifying the fix
<robert_ancell> jbicha: you're probably right about the lintian warning :)
<jbicha> robert_ancell: uploaded to artful/unapproved and figured out a test case
<jbicha> thanks for the help :)
<robert_ancell> jbicha: nice work!
<ignoo> hello, running ubuntu GNOME 16.04, have some issue with ubuntu ArtfulAardvark: https://pastebin.com/W1tBbqpq . Thank you for your support.
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-10-18
<jibel> good morning
<duflu> Morning jibel
<duflu> Happy release day
<duflu> Wait, no, tomorrow
<duflu> Meh, it will still be the 18th when it's the 19th here :)
<jibel> yes, 1 day to go.
<jibel> and another release
<jibel> that will be my 16th release
<jibel> not counting phone OTAs
<duflu> That's pretty unusual in the software world. In other circles you'd actually code freeze 6 months before release :)
<duflu> By which I mean there would not be 2+ releases each year. Although it's mathematically possible with overlaps
<jibel> what about the phone where we released 15 OTA in 2 years. Pretty short freezes
<duflu> Prepare for the bug report spike
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu, how are things?
<duflu> oSoMoN, things are OK. How about you?
<oSoMoN> duflu, I'm doing good
<duflu> Trevinho, hey remind me how/why mutter logs nothing by default?
<duflu> I used to know this
<Trevinho> duflu: hey
<Trevinho> duflu: not reason... but you can enable the debugging flag at compile time also if you need more
<duflu> Ah
<duflu> Thanks Trevinho
<duflu> That was nonobvious
<oSoMoN> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi oSoMoN
<Trevinho> good morning :)
<Trevinho> duflu: it should be just --enable-debug iirc
<duflu> That's a bit weird. You don't know you need the log until after an error happens. So disabling logging by default assumes you can always run it twice and reproduce an issue
<Trevinho> duflu: it also depends the flag is for debugging log
<Trevinho> for the rest just use the classic G_DEBUG or G_MESSAGES_DEBUG (=all) vars
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> Ã§a va oSoMoN ?
<oSoMoN> bien, et toi?
<oSoMoN> Martin va mieux?
<didrocks> il tousse encore, mais plus de fiÃ¨vreâ¦
<didrocks> par contre, quinte de toux la nuit, donc niveau repos pour lui, bof
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<seb128> didrocks, oSoMoN, salut les frenchies
<didrocks> salut seb128 !
<flexiondotorg> Bonjour
<seb128> oSoMoN, dÃ©solÃ© j'ai vu ton msg hier soir en passant avant le diner et j'ai oubliÃ© de faire le sponsoring aprÃ¨s, j'y ai repensÃ© qu'une fois au lot
<seb128> lit
<seb128> je fais Ã§a dans un moment (si personne ne s'en est occupÃ© entre temps)
<seb128> hey flexiondotorg
<didrocks> bonjour flexiondotorg !
<flexiondotorg> Sur le train. Aller au bureau de Londres.
<didrocks> flexiondotorg: tu arrives Ã  quelle heure ?
<flexiondotorg> 8:30
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: you're brave believing the train efficiency :D
<flexiondotorg> It's supposed to arrive at 8:15, I've automatically given the commuter adjusted arrival timeð
<flocculant> ha ha ha
<didrocks> ;)
<jibel> didrocks, any progress with debugging bug 1723577?
<ubot5> bug 1723577 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Artful won't start with Wayland activated (AMD?)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723577
<jibel> bonjour :)
<didrocks> jibel: no, we did a lot of reverts, but still nothing. Here is syslogs with gdm in debug mode: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/341191466/Syslog3
<didrocks> got a 3rd person complaining about his config not working (but he didn't detail his GPU)
<didrocks> Oct 17 13:13:19 valeryan24-desktop gnome-shell[1206]: Failed to use linear monitor configuration: Invalid mode 775501120x892744761 (0,000001) for monitor 'ACI ASUS VW220'
<didrocks> Oct 17 13:13:19 valeryan24-desktop gnome-shell[1206]: Failed to use fallback monitor configuration: Invalid mode 775501120x892744761 (0,000001) for monitor 'ACI ASUS VW220'
<didrocks> is the only thing that could impact, maybe?
<didrocks> jibel: we don't have any iso from the 5th or 6th, correct?
<didrocks> we could go the other way, getting them booting an older iso and upgrading pieces by pieces
<jibel> didrocks, we don't
<jibel> didrocks, we do have the beta but it's more than a week older
<didrocks> jibel: hum, maybe we can start from thereâ¦ Better than nothingâ¦
<didrocks> apart from this monitor configuration, I don't see anything else wrong
<didrocks> jibel: do you mind double checking if you spot anything in the debug gdm logs? ^
<jibel> didrocks, yes
<didrocks> it sounds like we are launching the gdm user session successfully
<didrocks> going through the phases
<didrocks> without any warning/errors
<didrocks> Oct 17 13:13:21 valeryan24-desktop gnome-session-binary[1198]: DEBUG(+): GsmManager: starting phase WINDOW_MANAGER
<didrocks> Oct 17 13:13:21 valeryan24-desktop gnome-session-binary[1198]: DEBUG(+): GsmManager: ending phase WINDOW_MANAGER
<didrocks> -> this is where gnome-shell is launched
<didrocks> (actually Oct 17 13:13:19 valeryan24-desktop /usr/lib/gdm3/gdm-wayland-session[1194]: gnome-session-binary[1198]: DEBUG(+): GsmManager: Phase DISPLAY_SERVER
<didrocks> in gdm)
<oSoMoN> seb128, looks like nobody did it yet
<seb128> oSoMoN, good, I'm doing it now
<oSoMoN> thanks!
<seb128> yw!
<willcooke> morning
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
<seb128> good morning willcooke
<oSoMoN> seb128, Iâve updated the bug description (bug #1718446) to make it SRUable, do IÂ need to subscribe ubuntu-sponsors?
<ubot5> bug 1718446 in gdm3 (Ubuntu) "Ensure wayland -> xorg fallback to the corresponding session" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718446
<seb128> oSoMoN, no, I'm handling that part
<willcooke> duflu, seb128 - no BT meeting today
<seb128> willcooke, oh, less meeting, good :)
<willcooke> \o/
<duflu> willcooke, OK. My mutter work thanks you. Predictably fixing one thing reveals more problems
<oSoMoN> seb128, that's what I thought, thanks
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<Laney> morning!
<didrocks> morning Laney
<seb128> hey Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks hey seb128
<Laney> anything new?
<didrocks> not much, didn't get yet to the bottom of the ATI bug, a little bit worried about that one
<didrocks> (don't know how much widespread it is)
<seb128> is anyone in the having an amd graphic machine?
<duflu> seb128, I can make my dev machine into AMD easily but I've adopted too many bugs for the moment
<seb128> duflu, k
<duflu> It's probably advisable anyone ever working on the shell has some AMD and NVIDIA hardware at home
<duflu> Even when I was working on Mir, often I was the only one who could test things
<duflu> where things are Nvidia and AMD
<seb128> yeah, we should probably expense some machines for that
<Laney> is it possible to access things in the taipei lab graphically?
<jibel> we do have access to nvidia and amd machines in the lab but not graphically
<Laney> mmm
<Laney> sounds like you can't tell from logs that it's broken for this bug?
<jibel> no, I've been reading the logs but there is nothing obvious
<didrocks> Laney: which is one of the issue
<didrocks> ok, I requested more env variables to print mutter/wayland more debugs
<didrocks> the only potential issue in syslogs is:
<didrocks> Oct 17 13:13:19 valeryan24-desktop gnome-shell[1206]: Failed to use linear monitor configuration: Invalid
<didrocks> mode 775501120x892744761 (0,000001) for monitor 'ACI ASUS VW220'
<seb128> jamesh, hey
<jamesh> seb128: hi
<seb128> jamesh, could you have a look at bug #1724316 please?
<ubot5> bug 1724316 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) ""Sorry, something went wrong cannot authenticate to snap store ..." without any way to fix" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724316
<jamesh> sure
<seb128> jamesh, you might know if there is a way to re-enter credentials from the UI? or does one need to use the command line?
<seb128> thanks
<jamesh> seb128: gnome-software doesn't share credentials with the command line tool
<seb128> jamesh, my artful is having the issue if some debug info or state details would be useful
<liuxg> when I run a command inside a container like "ssh root@$IPADDR lxc-attach -P /usr/lib/lm_containers -n ivi -- ls *.rpm", it complains "ls: *.rpm: No such file or directory". does it mean that I cannot use * inside the command? If I remove the *, it runs well. what should I do? thanks
<jamesh> seb128: I assume you'd previously entered U1 credentials into gnome-software?
<seb128> jamesh, I guess I did? I installed that machine early in the cycle and don't remember the details of what I did
<seb128> oSoMoN, k, gnome-session/gdm changes merged & uploaded, the SRU bug description looks good as well, thanks
<oSoMoN> seb128, cheers
<jamesh> seb128: still investigating, but I suspect the problem is in libsnapd-glib or snapd itself
<jamesh> (added some intermediate info to the bug)
<willcooke> didrocks, I just realised we're not adding the LibreOffice icons to the launcher by default, I /think/ we used to have them there.  Any reason either way?
<didrocks> willcooke: we reviewed and discussed that at the fit and finish sprint: the decision we took was keeping ubuntu GNOME default list + adding amazon.
<willcooke> :) thanks didrocks
<didrocks> can be revisited for LTS ;)
<didrocks> funny, we still have evolution.desktop in it
<didrocks> should be cleaned up :p
<didrocks> (and adding thunderbird, probably)
<willcooke> I've added a card to the backlog to review
<didrocks> thx!
<didrocks> Last post of the cycle, Day 16 is out :)
<willcooke> congrats ddi
<willcooke> didrocks,
<seb128> jamesh, thanks
<tkamppeter> seb128, did you already have a look into the gvfs-mtp log file?
<seb128> tkamppeter, yeah, but I'm a bit unclear what issues you have, the file copy was different from the other segfault right? did you report the copy one with apport? what was the backtrace?
<tkamppeter> seb128, The apport crash reports are all of some plug/unplug/unlock event as an apport crash report did not happen yesyerday and only yesterday I tried to transfer files.
<seb128> tkamppeter, what error did you get when trying to copy files then?
<seb128> did it work under valgrind the copy?
<tkamppeter> seb128, yesterday I only had that different valgrind apport report.
<tkamppeter> Under Valgrind the copy also did not work. I get "Error transferring track, Could not open resource for writing.".
<tkamppeter> seb128, ^^
<seb128> tkamppeter, could you report that bug on bugzilla against gvfs mtp backend? include your device reference since it might be specific to it
<seb128> detail but it looks like the "install third party software" installer option is not showing translated in french?
<seb128> andyrock, you are assigning me bugs now? :)
<andyrock> seb128: ahah I saw you proposed the patch upstream
<seb128> :-)
<seb128> thanks
<willcooke> didrocks, cyphermox might have the right machine!
<willcooke> Kernel driver in use: radeon
<willcooke> Kernel modules: radeon, amdgpu
<willcooke> cyphermox might be able to save the day again :)
<willcooke> seb128,, jibel - FYI since you're in the loop ^
<seb128> willcooke, upstream #gnome-shell has an idea of a problem in the code that could explain it
<willcooke> ah nice
<rbasak> I don't think I can help, but for future reference, I have an MSI R7 370: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25766124/
<rbasak> I don't think it uses amdgpu though, and I won't be near this particular machine for a month or two :-/
<seb128> rbasak, thanks
<willcooke> thanks rbasak, good to know
<didrocks> ok, soâ¦
<didrocks> should we revert the headless commits?
<didrocks> which is what the user tried?
<didrocks> and both seb & I tried those reverts to ensure that the Shell still starts?
<willcooke> didrocks, I'd like to test the resume/suspend cycles as well
<willcooke> can I install it?
<didrocks> willcooke: sure, https://launchpad.net/~didrocks/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+build/13591531
<didrocks> install the 2 debs
<didrocks> reboot
<didrocks> willcooke: there shouldn't be any impact on resume/suspend, the commits aren't reverted or linked
<willcooke> thanks didrocks, worth testing all the same
<didrocks> yep :)
<didrocks> willcooke: I'm preparing the real upload meanwhile
<seb128> didrocks, you prefer reverting now than giving upstream let's say half an hour to suggest a fix?
<didrocks> seb128: I'm away in half an hour and unsure the guy will be able to test the fix
<didrocks> but if you handle it with the community guy, sure
<seb128> well I was asking what you think is best if we ignore logistic
<seb128> then we can see if logistic works so we can do what is best
<seb128> or if we do plan B
<didrocks> I'm unsure this headless mode really gives us anything for this release
<didrocks> but if you feel it's important to us
<seb128> no, but the #gnome-shell log suggests that before its change gnome-shell was segfaulting
<didrocks> I would personnally go for a revert and proper fix as an SRU
<seb128> that was sending users back to fallback
<seb128> and I'm wondering if the segfault means apport prompts etc
<didrocks> yeah, but at least, they are on xorg
<seb128> right
<seb128> due to timeline constrains I think I would agree with the revert
<seb128> willcooke, Laney, others, ^ opinion?
<Laney> ask Jonas what he thinks about that, but seems ok
<willcooke> I think we should probably get things ship-shape before EOD.  So I'm +1 and then we can always SRU something tomorrow
<didrocks> (only the gdm user gnome-shell is segfaulting AFAIK)
<seb128> Laney, you should be on #gnome-shell :p
<Laney> I am
<seb128> oh, you are
<seb128> ask then :)
<Laney> :/
<seb128> well anyway they asked for more info
<seb128> it just takes roundtrip through contributor on forum
<seb128> so it might take a while
<willcooke> I'm happy with suspend here
<tkamppeter> seb128, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789150
<ubot5> Gnome bug 789150 in mtp backend "gvfs-mtp backend crashes on plug/unplug/unlock of Android phone, file transfer to Android phone does not work" [Normal,New]
<seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
<andyrock> seb128: hey I proposed a fix for a crash we had in gnome-control-center when adding google accounts
<andyrock> the fix is in gtk
<andyrock> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789141
<ubot5> Gnome bug 789141 in Backend: Wayland "Segmentation fault when adding Google online account" [Normal,New]
<seb128> andyrock, I saw, thanks
<andyrock> there was a first review
<andyrock> seb128: you see everything
<andyrock> :D
<seb128> right
<seb128> lol
<andyrock> we might want to SRU the fix
<seb128> yes
<seb128> let's wait to get it reviewed another time, the first review was ebassi doing stylistic comments
<cyphermox> seb128: willcooke: fwiw, wayland starts fine here.
<willcooke> thanks cyphermox
<willcooke> So we're dealing with a fairly narrow case then
<seb128> we have a revert upload and it looks like upstream understands the issue and is working on a fix as well
<cyphermox> willcooke: maybe I spoke too fast
<cyphermox> not sure what's going on but I couldn't get back to my session again after screensaver started
<cyphermox> I will lock my screen again now.
<cyphermox> worked this time, I'll let you know / file a bug when I hit the same issue again
<sil2100> Could you guys also give gnome-shell from artful-proposed some testing?
<jbicha> didrocks: hi, I haven't read all the details about the ati stuff you were working on today, butâ¦
<jibel> sil2100, I can install on a test machine and do a quick check
<jbicha> I used to have problems with some time my computer hanging on wake from suspend that I believe was fixed by the headless fixes
<jibel> but it's an intel
<jbicha> not loading at all is worse than having problems waking up, I'm just pointing out the potential downside :|
<jibel> jbicha, can you help testing gnome-shell in proposed then and tell how bad are the wake up issues
<jibel> ?
<willcooke> jbicha, I /think/ that wake up issue was different.  proposed working fine here on Intel
<jibel> sil2100, gnome-shell from proposed looks fine
<sil2100> \o/
<jbicha> sil2100: I'm going to test gnome-shell too in a minute
<jbicha> I'm not able to duplicate the wake-on-suspend hang here. I think it'll take me an hour or so to test on the computer that had the problem until last week
<jbicha> sil2100: didrocks ^
<didrocks> good :)
<sil2100> jbicha: thanks!
<sil2100> I think it got enough testing so it's now migrating to the release pocket
<v3n0m> very slow boot time of Ubuntu 17.10
<didrocks> willcooke: It's nice to see that that the fix worked for smb (at least 4 persons in the limited testing, I guess it worthed it)
<willcooke> neat!  I saw he said that it was broken, I didnt know it worked for him, so that is good news indeed
<willcooke> nice work didrocks
<didrocks> thx!
 * didrocks really off now
<willcooke> night didrocks
<didrocks> night!
<oSoMoN> night all
<jbicha> ok, I tried 10 times and wasn't able to reproduce the hang on suspend with gnome-shell .26.1-0ubuntu4
<willcooke> \o/
<jbicha> I think my issue was fixed by last week's mutter uploads
<willcooke> cool, I hoped that would be the case
<jbicha> maybe even 3.26.1-2ubuntu1
<willcooke> gonna call it a day, seems like everything is good to go.
<willcooke> I'll be on telegram if needed, but otherwise catch you in the morning
<ignoo> Hello,running ubuntu GNOME 16.04, have some issues with ubuntu Artful Aardvark: https://pastebin.com/BgBHExes ; Thank you for your Support.
<jbicha> ignoo: thanks, but go away
<vithiri> Does anyone else notice the battery status indicator always being at 100% in 17.10 currently? If I click it, the correct percentage will be displayed in the drop down menu.
<jbicha> vithiri: I don't think it always shows 100%, but take a look at https://github.com/system76/pop-distro/issues/44
<vithiri> jbicha: Hmm. Interesting. Thanks for the link.
<vithiri> jbicha: I didn't let it drop below 60%, so I can't confirm if it's the same issue now. But I'll keep an eye on it.
<jackpot51> I would like to thank everyone on a great Artful release!
<vithiri> jackpot51: Is it already relesed or are we just celebrating CET+1 midnight? :)
<dmj_s76> jbicha: Are you blocking on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788493 atm?
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788493 in general "Gnome 3.26 does not properly unredirect fullscreen windows" [Normal,New]
<jbicha> no, but if we're going to a mutter SRU, we might as well include the fixes for that too
<jbicha> since an SRU can take a week or two before it's published to -updates for all users
<dmj_s76> do you know of any regressions with the patches for this bug?  I haven't looked very closely at it yet.
<jbicha> I've not heard any reported yet
<jbicha> I thought since I believe gaming performance is a priority for System76, you might want to work on filing the LP bug we need for tracking that fix
<jackpot51> vithiri: I am celebrating the current version of Artful. The release will probably be the current set of packages in the release archive
<jackpot51> Unless there are outstanding issues to fix
<vithiri> jackpot51: Ah, yes. Based on using it for the past month, I'd say celebrating it sounds like a reasonable approach.
<dmj_s76> Proper vsync (including gsync) behavior is definitely important to us.  We have some gaming customers though it's a minority of nvidia customers actually.
<dmj_s76> jbicha: Might need to think more carefully about the vsync patch since it's claimed to cause tearing on videos in firefox.
<dmj_s76> We definitely will get support calls about that.
<dmj_s76> Previously the equivalent compiz plugin had an override to control fullscreen unredirection for windows of certain applications.
<jbicha> comment 48 says there's a GNOME Shell extension you can have them install
<jbicha> the behavior in mutter 3.26.1 was a regression from previous GNOME versions, I believe we want the behavior in 3.26.2
<jbicha> it sounds like the problem is that Firefox doesn't enable hw acceleration by default on Linux ?
<dmj_s76> jbicha: yeah, I think the right thing here is to allow unredirection&tearing if that's what the fullscreen app wants, but provide a mechanism to automatically override this for apps where tearing is an obviously wrong thing.
<dmj_s76> Not to be ornery...will try to dig deeper and do some testing tomorrow :)
<jbicha> no problem, I appreciate the help :)
<vithiri> jbicha: I've let it run down to 52% now, and while the experience isn't great since the icon shows ~75% it seems to be by design.
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-10-19
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<didrocks> good morning
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN, hey duflu
<duflu> Hi didrocks
 * duflu runs away for a while
<Trevinho> hey guys...
<oSoMoN> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hi oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> hey didrocks I've been following the ATI thing, nice work
<didrocks> thanks Trevinho ;)
<didrocks> wasâ¦ quite timely
<Trevinho> yeah, unfortunately I went to bed quite late last night as I wanted to finish patch for another crash, so i missed most of the party
<didrocks> Trevinho: I have another definition of party that you have it seems ;-)
<Trevinho> ahaha, well... You know, this kind of things when you  see them the day after are just a funny rush
<didrocks> Trevinho: no worry, glad that we found the guilty commits. I'm now asking the guy to test the proper patch (preparing gnome-shell+mutter packages)
<Trevinho> not in that moment though
<didrocks> yep ;=
<Trevinho> didrocks: oh, if you want then this one might be nice to have too https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788908
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788908 in st "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in clutter_actor_get_allocation_box (from _st_create_shadow_pipeline_from_actor)" [Normal,New]
<didrocks> was a little bit like old unity times, near 11.04 release ;)
<Trevinho> didrocks: it's not yet upstreamed but confirming fixing it, or in any case something similar will be there
<didrocks> Trevinho: hum, it's just a test for a ppa, but we can get that one in a SRU we will surely do with the proper fix if confirmed to work
<didrocks> Trevinho: mind turning your one in a SRU bug?
<Trevinho> didrocks: sure, that was the idea anyway
<Trevinho> didrocks: we're doing a sru0?
<didrocks> wouldn't be sru0 at that time, but just a normal sru
<didrocks> (we need to let it live a little bit in -proposed)
<didrocks> there is still time, I think I'll upload this sru tomorrow, so just drop me a link if you want it in
<willcooke> is it out yet?
<willcooke> morning all :)
<didrocks> good morning willcooke
<flocculant> willcooke: ha ha ha
<duflu> Morning willcooke. I hear it cures all ailments
<duflu> didrocks, I was confused about the upstream fix being mutter and downstream gnome-shell. Is that a temporary workaround?
<c-lobrano> morning all :)
<duflu> Morning c-lobrano
<c-lobrano> morning duflu
<didrocks> duflu: what we got is a workaround, reverting headless mode
<didrocks> duflu: the fix in mutter is to avoid triggering headless mode
<didrocks> duflu: don't touch at this bug anymore I think. For the real SRU, we will open a new one
<duflu> didrocks, was it amdgpu only? I read some more and yes only newer GPUs get that driver
<didrocks> nope, radeon
<didrocks> and the cards were 2010-2013
<duflu> Yeah the original reporter had older hardware that should have been radeon
<didrocks> (at least, for 2 of the 4 impacted users reporting it)
<didrocks> I don't know for the 2 others, even if they have amd/ATI
<didrocks> but yeah, I want as well a 900Mdpi screen ;)
<didrocks> (which is what the driver reported)
 * didrocks files an expense :p
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> hey seb128! Happy release day
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> hey Trevinho, didrocks, willcooke, duflu
<jibel> morning seb128
<seb128> didrocks, thanks, to you too :)
<duflu> Hi jibel
<seb128> hey jibel
<didrocks> salut jibel
<Trevinho> hi seb128
<Trevinho> and jibel
<seb128> Trevinho, wb! we missed you yesterday
<jibel> didrocks, how much time would it take to draw a frame on such a monitor
<jamesh> morning seb128, jibel
<seb128> hey jamesh
<jibel> morning all
<didrocks> jibel: 0.00001 FPS? ;)
<Trevinho> seb128: I read the backlog on systems, but too late
<seb128> Trevinho, in what tz are you atm?
 * duflu is also curious :)
<Trevinho> seb128: I'm in Playa del Carmen, so... Quintana Roo, it has q bit different tz than other parts of mexico from what I heard from
<Trevinho> anyway it's 2:44 here now :)
<seb128> lol
<duflu> "Where in the world is Trevinho?" ... there's a game in that
<seb128> yeah, but then his own tz doesn't mach the one he's staying in :p
<seb128> he had 0 overlap with Europe yesterday
<seb128> which means he was living on .nz standards :p
<seb128> at least Robert gets company on his work hours! :)
<jamesh> TZ=Trevinho date
<Trevinho> actually this was an Idea I had few days ago...
<Trevinho> I should use in all my devices my own Tz depending on when I go to bed...
<Trevinho> :-D
<duflu> Wait long enough and he'll be working out of Mars. The TZ question won't even make sense
<Trevinho> ahah
<jamesh> and all it would require is to push out a new tzdata every time you fly somewhere
<Trevinho> seb128: yes I had overlap yesterday.. in the early morning
<Trevinho> and well your EOD or sort of
<Trevinho> this was 10 utc https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788908#c6 :) and was my last thing before stopping I think
<ubot5> Gnome bug 788908 in st "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in clutter_actor_get_allocation_box (from _st_create_shadow_pipeline_from_actor)" [Normal,New]
<duflu> didrocks, in related news - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1724732
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1724732 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Wayland login options are missing when a radeon card is installed" [Undecided,New]
<didrocks> duflu: yeah, this is to be expected
<didrocks> duflu: they were already using Xorg anyway
<didrocks> duflu: do you want to test upstream fix btw? To see if that makes them wayland-compatible
<didrocks> or just fallback to Xorg, but without crashes?
<duflu> didrocks, I'm confused. The card does support Wayland and is the only active GPU. I wouldn't say "expected" :)
<Laney> morning
<duflu> didrocks, no thanks. I'm back to Intel and have other bugs to finish
<duflu> Morning Laney
<didrocks> duflu: won't know if upstream fixed it for you thus, but when you have time to go back at thisâ¦
<didrocks> hey Laney
<duflu> didrocks, will gdm3 automatically hide Wayland on all hybrids?
<duflu> It appears my BIOS won't let me use hybrid to test
<didrocks> duflu: no, they will if the session crashes for any reason
<didrocks> or if you don't have drm support (which isn't your case)
<duflu> didrocks, ah yes. I remember now - it did that when I was testing changes to mutter and crashed
<seb128> hey Laney
<seb128> Laney, how are things today?
<duflu> didrocks, what's the simplest way to tell users to enable mutter logging on a live system?
<andyrock> hey all!
<didrocks> duflu: on a live? hemâ¦ I think breaking in casper-bottom isn't an optionâ¦ do you think changing a file in a shell command, loging out and login back in is an option?
<didrocks> (that would mean they first end up in a working session)
<duflu> didrocks, Yeah G_DEBUG...?
<didrocks> yep, in the .session file
<didrocks> /usr/share/wayland-sessions/ubuntu.desktop -> Exec line
<didrocks> (I'm already exporting the ubuntu mode there)
<didrocks> duflu: there are more env variables for mutter, one sec
<didrocks> duflu: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25770966/
<didrocks> (writing here the logs in a temporary file)
<duflu> Thanks didrocks
 * didrocks is tempted to create a package to install to add those to the global environment
<didrocks> yw
<duflu> didrocks, yeah that and gnome-shell in general but mostly for mutter startup problems. I have a bug for that already
<didrocks> I guess i'll do it for 18.04, it's just a question of shipping a file in /usr/lib/environment.d
<duflu> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1696030
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1696030 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell logging is too brief to be useful" [Undecided,New]
 * didrocks adds a tab
<Laney> seb128: getting cold now, autumn is really here :-o
<Laney> but release day, so happy
<Laney> you?
<Laney> hey andyrock, how's it going?
<duflu> andyrock, I'm almost sad the PS4 rotation bug is getting fixed
<duflu> It was a handy test tool
<andyrock> duflu: ahahah
<andyrock> hey Laney good good
<duflu> Plenty of laptops don't have (supported) accelerometers
<andyrock> looking for a new latop battery
<andyrock> mine is completetly gone
<seb128> Laney, I'm good thanks, it's cold but sunny here which is nice!
<Laney> oh those are good days
<Laney> we just have grey mist
<seb128> :-/
<didrocks> Trevinho: for https://github.com/ubuntu/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/pull/97, do you have a ready-to-go SRU bug ref?
<willcooke> andyrock, re: laptop battery, in my limited experience, the cheap ebay copies offer < 50% the advertised capacity
<seb128> ricotz, hey, do you know who bug #1724773 should be reported to? it seems an issue with the libreoffice/libreoffice-5-4/ubuntu ppa
<ubot5> bug 1724773 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Some packages of LO 5.4.2 conflict with each other" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724773
<andyrock> willcooke: I thinking about the original one
<andyrock> but it's not easy to find here in Italy
<seb128> andyrock, willcooke, I've changed my Dell latitude one for the 3rd time and decided to take a cheap one this time, I can recommend not doing that. I had my laptop giving me the "battery empty led" and powering down a few time while the battery was charged, some bits are getting of the back and capacity is less good
<Trevinho> didrocks:  1 sec
<didrocks> willcooke: yeah, once I'll change my own battery, thanks to you, I know that I should buy only the original one
<Trevinho> didrocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/+bug/1719192
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1719192 in gnome-shell-extension-appindicator (Ubuntu) "Some Top Icons Disappear After Screen Locks - 17.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<seb128> Trevinho, bug #1714989 seems to have to do with dash-to-panel
<ubot5> bug 1714989 in GNOME Shell "gnome-shell crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast() from st_label_set_text() (dash-to-panel specific?)" [Critical,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1714989
<didrocks> Trevinho: mind turning it to a SRU bug?
<Trevinho> seb128: yeah, I give a quick read but I wanted to move on that bug once I'm done with the other
<Trevinho> didrocks: ok
<didrocks> thx! ;)
<seb128> Trevinho, I just updated the title to say that
<seb128> lol, wth https://launchpadlibrarian.net/340950618/GsettingsChanges.txt
<didrocks> "soft config"
<didrocks> :)
<didrocks> waow, there are even duplicates in the list
<seb128> right, that seems weird/buggy
<seb128> it's good that we have those info including by apport though
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> it made it easy to see that the segfault mentioned reports are all using dash to panel
<Trevinho> didrocks: done, bug is actually https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/+bug/1712866
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1712866 in gnome-shell-extension-appindicator (Ubuntu) "icons from qt applications disappear after screen lock/sleep" [High,In progress]
<duflu> http://releases.ubuntu.com/17.10/
<didrocks> Trevinho: meraviglioso!
<krashekspress> got strande problem with rx580 after boot to 17.10
<krashekspress> https://photos.app.goo.gl/CxHgKE9PvEQRM37g2
<krashekspress> screenshot from ubuntu is fine
<willcooke> krashekspress, can you try with an Xorg session and see if that makes any difference? (https://ubuntucommunity.s3-us-east-2.amazonaws.com/original/1X/a9e5b475501e411707b336e592249ddc7600a6e8.gif)
<krashekspress_2> Xorg works fine
<krashekspress_2> but screen is like this onlo on prompt for disk decrypt password
<krashekspress_2> *also
<willcooke> krashekspress_2, please could you log a bug against "gnome-shell"  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<krashekspress_2> are you sure it is gnome-shell bug, same problem is right after I choose Ubuntu on boot (screen where I need to enter disk decrypt password)
<krashekspress_2> anyway, will fill bug, sure
<willcooke> thanks krashekspress_2, we can always move it to the correct place later
<andyrock> didrocks is this a known issue? i mean the weird progress bar https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/t1Oz0hk7/IMG_20171019_120817.jpg
<andyrock> sorry for the low quality picture
<andyrock> was not easy to capture with a screenshot
<andyrock> with adwaita the scrollbar looks nice
<didrocks> andyrock: ah, first time I'm seeing it
<andyrock> I can fix this buuuuut I've no idea where to start
<andyrock> :D
<didrocks> I'm tempted to blame Trevinho on any theme's regression ofc! ;)
<krashekspress_> willcooke, I just logged out and choose wayland and logged back in, no error, is there easy way to check on which session I'm on?
<andyrock> ahahaha
<andyrock> it has been there for a while
<didrocks> andyrock: the position is the same?
<didrocks> with adwaita?
<andyrock> didrocks: yeah on the top
<Trevinho> didrocks: no I didn't touch progress bars :)
<andyrock> but with adwaita there is no border
<didrocks> ok, only the width though
<andyrock> and the width is smaller
<andyrock> should be easy to fix but I don't know which component is this
<didrocks> Trevinho: more seriously, it could be we never adapted to new layouts IMHO
<willcooke> krashekspress_, not sure what the best way is, but I do "alt-f2" and then type "r" and hit enter.  If it says that you cant restart because of Wayland, then Wayland, if it does restart the session then its xorg
<Laney> echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
<didrocks> andyrock: with the pickler in the inspector?
<willcooke> krashekspress_, see comment from Laney ^
<krashekspress_> according to alt+f2 it is wayland
<andyrock> I can try, but it's hard to  use because it's fast!!
<andyrock> let me try to make it slower
<krashekspress_> willcooke, definitely wayland, gonna restart to see if problem returns
<didrocks> andyrock: buttons on the left, seriously? :p
<Laney> andyrock: start the inspector, select the view, find the progress bar widget and manually set the visible property to true
<andyrock> didrocks: it's on xenial
<andyrock> running from a chroot
<andyrock> with same user settings I'm using
<andyrock> I need to create another user with artful settings
<andyrock> next week :P
<didrocks> ;)
<didrocks> but yeah, if they don't create the progress bar on the spot, tweaking the property as L_aney said is a good way
<andyrock> I'll take a look
<andyrock> I tried yeasterday but I got lost inside the inpector
<didrocks> the serach doesn't work in the view pane btw, you need to go through the hierarchy manually
<didrocks> like "box" doesn't match gtkbox
<krashekspress__> last update: after restart decrypt password, gdm, and gnome desktop are scrambled, relog to xorg, gnome-desktop is normal, relog back to wayland, gnome-desktop is normal and running on wayland
<krashekspress__> nice
<didrocks> you need to type "gtkbâ¦"
<krashekspress__> no restart for me
<andyrock> didrocks: found... it's a GtkProgressBar under WebkitWebView
<andyrock> I'll try to tweak it
<didrocks> great!
<andyrock> it's a small fix but annoying
<andyrock> I mean the bug is annyoing
<didrocks> I have the simple-scan regression (really from Marco this time!) which is a little bit more annoying to my taste :p
<didrocks> we have a patch now to review from a contributor
<Trevinho> yes, i've seen it... c-lobrano said would check it, if he can't ill jump oni t
<Trevinho> ah, ok
<didrocks> maybe Trevinho you want to review it, it's on bug #1721102
<ubot5> bug 1721102 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Thin line at the left of Simple Scan's "Scan" headerbar button" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1721102
<didrocks> Trevinho: no hurry, if we can stash andyrock's fix in as wellâ¦
<andyrock> Trevinho: still awake or already awake? :D
<andyrock> it's 5am there... isn't it?
<didrocks> I guess as he was awake in our morning, it's a "still"
<Trevinho> still :)
<Laney> andyrock: I think the "/* OSD overlays */" bits are applying too broadly
<krashekspress__> how to completely remove unity after upgrade?
<willcooke> krashekspress__, sudo apt remove unity-session
<andyrock> didrocks: is there a gtk widget gallery application?
<krashekspress__> willcooke, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1724796 hope this is enough
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1724796 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Picture is heavily malformed" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> andyrock, if you install gtk-3-examples, and then run gtk3-widget-factory - is that what you need?
<willcooke> thanks krashekspress__
<andyrock> willcooke: thanks :)
<Laney> not sure the levalbar in there is supposed to be green
<Laney> levelbar
<simosx> Is Ubuntu 17.10 (final) out? At http://releases.ubuntu.com/17.10/ it looks to be, but the ISO date is from yesterday.
<andyrock> Laney: yeah I saw that too
<andyrock> we can fix that too
<andyrock> and I think you're right regarding the osd
<andyrock> themes are hard
<andyrock> :D
<andyrock> poor didrocks
<toto_la_praline> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/10/ubuntu-17-10-release-features
<seb128> andyrock, we still have a bunch of themes bugs indeed :-/
<seb128> bug #1724651 is quite visible
<ubot5> bug 1724651 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Nautilus progress spinner indicator is covered by a white rect in the beginning" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1724651
<andyrock> I'll push a safe fix for the osd progressbar soon
<andyrock> *propose
<seb128> hopefully we have more polish on those next cycle
<seb128> bug #1707606 as well
<ubot5> bug 1707606 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "[nautilus] no sidebar mouseover selection displayed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1707606
<andyrock> we should start from adwaita
<seb128> let's see how the new theme projects goes
<andyrock> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/dZv3UcQV/
<chrisccoulson> new theme project?
<andyrock> this should be enough and safe
<andyrock> to get this... (uploading video)
<andyrock> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Zv4nR8bt/VID_20171019_133537.mp4
<andyrock> seb128, didrocks ^^^
<andyrock> Trevinho ^^^
<andyrock> it affects just osd progressbar
<seb128> chrisccoulson, the theme needs to be refreshed, we are discussing option but are probably going to try to work with the community on a new theme and see how it goes
<andyrock> it's the same thing they're doing in adwaita
<andyrock> if you're ok with that I can do a MP
<seb128> andyrock, result looks good but I can't tell from your css if that might impact other progressbars in a way it should not
<seb128> Laney might have a comment, he usually has an eye for potential issues that can come from css tweaks
<andyrock> so ephipany has the same bug
<andyrock> I'm opening a bug on lp
<andyrock> waiting for didrocks and Laney to comment
<seb128> k
<Laney> on the video?
<Laney> the effect looks good ;-)
<andyrock> https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/ubuntu-themes/fix-osd-progressbar/+merge/332491
<andyrock> I've to go for lunch now
<andyrock> I'll be back in one hour
<seb128> andyrock, enjoy!
<didrocks> andyrock: yeah, looking good!
 * didrocks is back from a run, listened to Linux Unplugged giving very nice reviews of Ubuntu 17.10!
<seb128> nice
<willcooke> Nice!
<willcooke> I hope we can see them again at the next rally, assuming there is one
<didrocks> yep, so do I!
* willcooke changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/lsBmkzPY/ubuntu-desktop-1804-cycle |  Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | pink killer â lots of help
 * Laney stabs json
<Laney> this no-trailing-comma thing is the worst
<krashekspress> is freeze bug known (when I press shut down icon in top panel gnome freezes for 10 sec before prompting me with shutdown dialog)?
<vithiri> Who decided to put the dock at the bottom of the screen at https://www.ubuntu.com/? I suspect that's not the default desktop experience. :)
<krashekspress> also suspend option is missing :(
<seb128> krashekspress, that freeze is not known/reported afaik
<seb128> vithiri, indeed that's not the default
<Laney> meh, didn't see that
 * Laney goes to hassle
<jbicha> yay, it's new but it's the same but it's amazing :)
<Laney> duly hassled
<jbicha> there's a video on https://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/1710 but the share links don't work. Maybe the video isn't public on vimeo?
<jbicha> well this link works but not the twitter link https://player.vimeo.com/video/236987486
<didrocks> oSoMoN: how much do you want for removing the libreoffice start desktop file (I think putting it in its own package for people wanting it?)
<didrocks> - the look is horrible and unthemed
<didrocks> - opening any other app matches to this one in the Shell (there isn't the nice bamf heuristic we had)
<didrocks> - the icon isâ¦ meh ;)
<didrocks> - I don't think a lot of people are using it as a start page
<jbicha> didrocks: LP: #1696250
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1696250 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Please hide Start Center and Math" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696250
<ricotz> AA \o/
<xnox> didrocks, oooh, did we rotate the sidebar to be a taskbar?
<xnox> didrocks, i must be out of date
<xnox> didrocks, looking at https://www.ubuntu.com/
<didrocks> xnox: yeah, we discussed about it here ^
<didrocks> xnox: sounds like web team decided for us ;)
<didrocks> (they are already aware by L_aney, let's see once that's fixed)
<xnox> didrocks, lol Peter is savage
<didrocks> heh
<oSoMoN> didrocks, that's fine by me, we can put it in a separate package, or simply have it not shown by default
<jbicha> oSoMoN: NoDisplay=true for both Start Center and Math then?
<oSoMoN> yeah, that would do it
<didrocks> I would prefer a separate package
<didrocks> so that if they are fans of this, they can install it
<didrocks> and it's not much maintenance (actually, it's 0 patch compared to NoDisplay)
<oSoMoN> good point
<oSoMoN> suggested package name?
<didrocks> libreoffice-start-center?
<didrocks> (and probably libreoffice-math for the math one)
<didrocks> interestingly, there is already libreoffice-math
<didrocks> I guess we need to install it to have formula support in writer?
<didrocks> libreoffice-math-launcher (or -desktop?)
<jbicha> I'm really skeptical whether there are people who want to run Math separately and can't just start Writer or whatever first and click File>New>Formula
<didrocks> I don't have opinions on Math, I think the start center can still have some use case though
<xnox> jbicha, wouldn't people use Math app to generate formulas and copy&paste them elsewhere? into e.g. google doc, email, etc?
<jbicha> if you want to match the .desktop name it's libreoffice-startcenter and it looks like the binary which isn't needed elsewhere(?) is just /usr/bin/libreoffice
<jbicha> xnox: are you one of those people? I'm ok with us just hiding Math until we get a bug report from a real user first :)
 * xnox recalls doing that on Mac with a LatexIt app & Mac OS Keynote app
<xnox> jbicha, i'm not s real person, i am a *replicant*
 * xnox goes to cry in a corner
<jbicha> xnox: it's ok, I'm using "people" broadly. You still count in my opinion! :)
<jbicha> oops, nope you can't move /usr/bin/libreoffice it's required by the other .desktop's :(
<didrocks> moving the .desktop alone is good enough IMHO (+ the correct dep, ofc ;))
<jbicha> anyway, the File>New>Formula works from Impress too
<oSoMoN> I think Math is a valid use case (even though probably not so common), the generic start center on the other hand can be moved to a separate package
<jbicha> Pop!_OS makes a custom folder in the Activities Overview and sticks all the LO stuff there
<jbicha> 6 is just too many to show by default -- it takes up a whole row for me on the front page of Show Applications (25% of the apps on the front page are LO)
<vithiri> didrocks: Was someone working on getting the picture at ubuntu.com changed, if it's supposed to show the left side dock instead? I can see that some news outlets are starting to source it now for their own announcements. :)
<didrocks> vithiri: as Laney, he was the one poking the web team apparently
<didrocks> ask*
<vithiri> Laney: Was someone working on getting the picture at ubuntu.com changed, if it's supposed to show the left side dock instead? I can see that some news outlets are starting to source it now for their own announcements. :) (https://urbantecno.com/noticia/ubuntu-17-10-disponible-descargar)
<Laney> yes
<vithiri> Laney: \o/
<Laney> there's a pull request and all :-)
<oSoMoN> jbicha, the folder idea sounds good to me
<oSoMoN> didrocks, xnox: what do you guys think of the folder idea, to group all LO launchers?
<didrocks> I'm not a big fan of folders, it's a little bit contrary to what GNOME wants by default
<didrocks> so I would be vary of this
<didrocks> (the only upstream one is the "utilities")
<oSoMoN> didrocks, there's nothing on https://wiki.gnome.org/HowDoI/AppFolders that says it's contrary to GNOME guidelines
<oSoMoN> not the default â  contrary to guidelines
<didrocks> oSoMoN: well, talking to GNOME people
<oSoMoN> (just exploring options here, not pushing for that solution in particular, but it sounds like an elegant solution to the problem)
<jbicha> I was thinking about proposing that change to gnome-menus anyway
<jbicha> gnome-menus hasn't had a release in 3 years, anyone want to be its maintainer? ;)
<didrocks> I still think that would be a bad move, GNOME devs I know really prefers a flat hierarchy and are against those folders in general
<jbicha> mcatanzaro has really been urging me to drop the extra LO icons by default like Fedora does (they only show the big 3)
<oSoMoN> didrocks, fair enough, let's just hide the extra icons then
<oSoMoN> Iâll mention the folder idea on the bug report for completeness
<didrocks> yes ;)
<didrocks> oSoMoN: well, hiding -> moving the start center to its own package, correct? (then, do whatever you want for Math)
<oSoMoN> didrocks, yes, by hiding IÂ meant that
<oSoMoN> I'm still undecided about math
<didrocks> same
<oSoMoN> there's no UI in gnome that allows overriding a NoDisplay=true with a local desktop file, right?
<didrocks> nothing upstream, there are 3rd party ones to create yours, ofc, but I don't think there is any listing expliciting the NoDisplay=true ones
<jbicha> GNOME 2 used to offer alacarte. I assume it still works but I haven't used it in years
<didrocks> yeah, last time I used it should be inâ¦ 2007-2008?
<didrocks> man 10 yearsâ¦ /me goes crying in a corner
<jibel> ah interesting bug, I was using an external monitor, unplugged it, resumed my laptop and it thinks the external monitor is still connected
<oSoMoN> didrocks, you're old, get over it :)
<didrocks> nooooooooooooooooo
<didrocks> on this, going to a meetup to feelâ¦ wellâ¦ old as well ;)
<didrocks> see you tomorrow guys!
<mbiebl> jbicha: https://people.debian.org/~biebl/close-button.png
<mbiebl> trying out the gnome-session in 17.10
<mbiebl> the close button looks wrong
<mbiebl> (too thin/small)
<mhall119> hey, can anyone give me a ballpark average for the build time of an application package?
<mhall119> can be order of magnitude scale, 1min 10min, 100min, etc
<Laney> a deb?
<mhall119> yeah
<mbiebl> jbicha: nvm, apparently org.gnome.desktop.interface icon-theme was set to "'ubuntu-mono-dark"
<mbiebl> gsettings reset org.gnome.desktop.interface icon-theme fixed it
<mbiebl> not sure why it was set like this
<jbicha> might as well reset-recursively org.gnome.desktop.interface while you're at it :)
<mbiebl> maybe I had changed that manually, don't remember
<mbiebl> jbicha: those already are
<mbiebl> $ gsettings list-recursively | grep Adwaita
<mbiebl> org.gnome.desktop.wm.preferences theme 'Adwaita'
<mbiebl> org.gnome.desktop.interface icon-theme 'Adwaita'
<mbiebl> org.gnome.desktop.interface gtk-theme 'Adwaita'
<mbiebl> that looks ok now
 * mgedmin wishes gsettings could list only those settings that have non-default values
<jbicha> by resetting the defaults, you should get the right settings whether you use ubuntu-session or gnome-session assuming you like defaults
<mgedmin> (iirc 'dconf dump /' does exactly that, but I prefer the more-greppable gsettings output format)
<mbiebl> jbicha: figured as much
<mbiebl> so the problem is for users which had manually changed the theme in the past
<mbiebl> e.g. to radiance or so
<jbicha> mbiebl: do you think Debian is interested in cherry-picking Ubuntu's glib2.0 patches for per-desktop session or do you just want to wait for those to land upstream for GNOME 3.28?
<mbiebl> but I guess there is not much you can do about that
<mbiebl> If they land upstream anyway, I don't mind much if you cherry-pick them
<mbiebl> (if that simplifies your work)
<jbicha> Debian taking those patches won't matter too much for Ubuntu now. The patches still haven't landed in git master so maybe we should wait then?
<mbiebl> nod
<Laney> mhall119: sorry, forgot to reply
<Laney> doesn't take too long for most things - you can see on launchpad e.g. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-calculator/1:3.25.92-0ubuntu1/+build/13571197
<Laney> night all, see you monday(!)
<xnox> something odd has started to happen with my vga screen
<xnox> it's no longer is identified as widescreen 1080, but as 1024x768 thing
<xnox> is there anything i can do, to get support on this for xenial?
<xnox> not sure if this is a kernel bug or just user config.....
<oSoMoN> EOD here, good night all!
<Trevinho> Hola
<amano> TNX desktopers for  fixing bug 1723577.  Even for me (nouveau) that is fixed :)
<ubot5> bug 1723577 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "No login screen (mutter silently goes headless) on some AMD GPUs" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723577
<amano> What a nastie: A mutter crash that leads to the startup of the X.org fallback session which can't be displayed due to a gnome-shell regression. Wow. No wonder that this was so hard to diagnose. And timely cropping up just before final freeze to keep the fun alive.
<amano> ð
<v3n0m> hey !
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-10-20
<jibel> good morning
<Trevinho> morning jibel
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<Trevinho> hi oSoMoN
<jibel> hi Trevinho oSoMoN and all
<Trevinho> jibel: do you have handy that crash you had on recover from suspend with different monitor settings?
<jibel> Trevinho, no, and I don't have a multimontor setup at home
<didrocks> good morning
<Trevinho> morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey Trevinho!
<duflu> Hello all
<duflu> (and then duflu runs to the post office)
<didrocks> hey duflu
<duflu> Hmm, I've seen some complaints from people that 'ubuntu-bug' itself crashes and fails to log bugs. Looks like there are a few common reasons: https://errors.ubuntu.com/?package=apport&period=month
<didrocks> duflu: 16.04 apparently?
<duflu> didrocks, no the top 4 apport crashes are in 17.10 too
<didrocks> hum, not what I seeâ¦ "Last seen" is 16.04 for me
<didrocks> oh, not anymore
<didrocks> after a refresh
<didrocks> cache? :/
<krashekspress> hitting logout/shutdown in gnome-shell topbar most of times results in 10-25 seconds freeze of DE, is there any way I can figure out why is it happening?
<duflu> krashekspress, 25 seconds happens to be the default dbus timeout. You can usually track it down looking at the log by running 'journalctl'
<krashekspress> duflu, can you take a look ->> https://pastebin.com/WJ0Tn8Ds
<duflu> krashekspress, please attach that log in a new bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+filebug
<andyrock> good morning!
<duflu> Morning andyrock
<willcooke> ahoy
<didrocks> hey willcooke !
<didrocks> happy post-release day :)
<willcooke> :)
<krashekspress> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/1725163
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1725163 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell freezes when logout/shutdown" [Undecided,New]
 * didrocks is preparing the SRU for our ATI revert fix
<willcooke> didrocks, is the root cause fixed now?
<didrocks> willcooke: duflu: interestingly, I got other reports like amano for who the revert fixed it for him as well. I think it really fixed for "all users that were fallbacked to Xorg due to driver/card", could have been huge
<duflu> didrocks, cool, thanks
<didrocks> willcooke: yep, upstream, I prepared some packages in a ppa (mutter/gnome-shell) and I got 3 confirmations of their system keeps working
<willcooke> krashekspress, out of interest, can you try and open cheese and see if you have a similar lag there?
<willcooke> didrocks, neat, thanks
<krashekspress> willcooke, lol, cheese is starting 25 seconds Ä=
<krashekspress> :)
<duflu> 25 seconds
<duflu> Always 25 seconds
<duflu> dbus FTW
<duflu> where W is delayed by 25 seconds
<krashekspress> that was wild guess, just tested with stopwatch, 33 seconds exactly
<willcooke> so my guess is that it's related to: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=783789
<ubot5> Gnome bug 783789 in User Accounts "User accounts panel is slow to open" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]
<willcooke> which is related to: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782627
<ubot5> Gnome bug 782627 in general "Cheese starts slowly" [Normal,Needinfo]
<andyrock> nice that there is already a fix for the most reported bug
<andyrock> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1720400
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1720400 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/gnome-control-center:11:update_buffers:image_get_buffers:intel_update_image_buffers:intel_update_renderbuffers:intel_prepare_render" [High,In progress]
<andyrock> :D
<krashekspress> I also have logitech camera
<krashekspress> so theoretically if I disable camera, problem should go away
<willcooke> krashekspress, I think the camera is a red herring, I think, as duflu said, it's probably a dbus issue
<willcooke> but I think the root cause of the camera, and the users panel, and the slow shutdown is all the same
<krashekspress> just for sanity I unpluged the camera, cheese starts instantly, shutdown/logout works also instantly
<krashekspress> can I do anything?
<didrocks> how come the camera can make gnome-session-binary not responding on dbusâ¦
<willcooke> krashekspress, good detective skills :)  Could you comment to that effect on the bug please?
<didrocks> apart if it the camera is spamming dbus
<didrocks> and preventing any other trafficâ¦
<jibel> willcooke, not sure it is a red herring. without an external webcam, cheese starts in in 4s, with the external camera it starts in 34s
<willcooke> fair point
<didrocks> dbus-monitor --session
<didrocks> do you have a lot more traffic when you plug those external webcams?
<willcooke> krashekspress, ^
<jibel> I don't
<didrocks> (gdbus monitor doesn't seem to allow global monitoring as the retired dbus-monitor)
<didrocks> hum, so not that
<willcooke> I can reproduce on my test laptop, but the webcam is not pluggable
<willcooke> the cheese issue at least
<duflu> More likely the app at the other end is hung or crashed for krashekspress ...
<duflu> Oct 20 09:35:59 MegaHulk at-spi2-registr[11456]: Failed to send session response Timeout was reached
<duflu> Oct 20 09:36:23 MegaHulk gsd-power[11521]: Failed to acquire idle monitor proxy: Timeout was reached
<didrocks> willcooke: you probably have an USB internal webcam
<didrocks> duflu: well, if gnome-session-binary is hung/crashed, you won't be able to do a lot :p
<didrocks> if crash -> session is closed
<duflu> Maybe we need to look for .crash files instead of a hang
<didrocks> if hung -> maybe??? but how can it unblocks when unplugging the camera
<jibel> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/25777611/ this is the dubs traffic for unplug/plug the camera, launch cheese and wait until it starts
<didrocks> ahhh, inhibit signal
<didrocks> jibel: hum, where is the camera traffic? can you only take that one
<didrocks> (without cheese)
<didrocks>    string "type='signal',sender='org.freedesktop.DBus',interface='org.freedesktop.DBus',member='NameOwnerChanged',path='/org/freedesktop/DBus',arg0='org.gnome.SessionManager'"
<didrocks> method return time=1508486997.823203 sender=org.freedesktop.DBus -> destination=:1.122 serial=13 reply_serial=11
<jibel> didrocks, what do you mean?
<didrocks> -> hum, NameOwnerChangedâ¦
<jibel> didrocks, just plug/unplug?
<didrocks> jibel: just print the traffic with plug/unplug, without cheese running
<didrocks> yes
<jibel> k
<jibel> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25777619/
 * didrocks tries something which may crash my session, brb if that's the case
<krashekspress> updated big
<jibel> didrocks, ^
<krashekspress> *bug
<krashekspress> hahaha
<willcooke> thanks krashekspress
<jibel> it crashed :)
<willcooke> lol
<krashekspress> I should be working, but this is fun :)
<didrocks> ok, confirming, gnome-session launches gnome-session-binary, but even if this latter is killed (or it crashed), your session terminates
<didrocks> so, it's not a crash of that component at least
<didrocks> jibel: ok, no traffic for inhibiting or towards gnome-session-binary
<jibel> interested by an strace of cheese?
<duflu> didrocks, FYI those MUTTER env vars actually cause the interesting logging to happen in journalctl. The one in /tmp is not useful
<didrocks> jibel: sure (I need to jump on the SRU though), but also, mind trying "systemd-inhibit echo foo"
<didrocks> duflu: well, they could for some case, but yeah, agreed
<didrocks> jibel: and tell me if "foo" is printed right away
<duflu> also, you need to remember to look for gdm3 messages before gnome-shell. Sincew gdm3 is also a mutter shell
<didrocks> or there is a delay
<didrocks> duflu: hum, gdm3 is launching g-s, no?
<duflu> didrocks, yes. But gdm3 is also a standalone "shell" of sorts, using mutter
<jibel> didrocks, it's printed immediately
<duflu> Call it a DM then. I don't mind
<didrocks> duflu: interesting, I didn't see this part of code, I only looked at gdm3 launching gnome-session, which launch gnome-shell as the gdm user in the "gdm" mode
<jibel> didrocks, http://people.canonical.com/~j-lallement/junk/cheese.strace
<didrocks> jibel: which line is it blocking during the delay?
<duflu> didrocks, I realize when I was doing the font work... it instantly improved the login screen too
<didrocks> great!
<vithiri> Hmm. We've still got a task bar at ubuntu.com today. :)
<duflu> (but only because Ubuntu introduces more sane defaults for hinting and subpixel)
<willcooke> vithiri, yeah :(  working on getting that fixed
<vithiri> willcooke: Ah, sounds great!
<dupondje> mmm. Upgraded to 17.10, but seems like there is some minor bug that causes me to be unable to save OpenVPN settings in gnome-control-center. When running in verbose mode it gives me 'Invalid setting IPv4'. Works fine with nm-connection-editor. I file a bug against gnome-control-center right?
<andyrock> dupondje: yes please. In case we can always change the target project later on
<jibel> didrocks, nothing is blocking it's repeating the same sequence over and over again
<jibel> didrocks, something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/25777697/
<didrocks> jbicha: I'm removing your restore dep commit in gnome-shell, it doesn't reference any bug, so not suitable for a SRU
<jibel> minus the inotify call
<didrocks> jibel: hum, I guess it has some retry logic
<didrocks> jbicha: please restore it with the correct bug # for a later SRU (don't want to block current SRU on this)
<didrocks> jibel: have you tried "systemd-inhibit echo foo", does it blocks as well?
<didrocks> (if so, could be an easier test case)
<jibel> didrocks, no it doesn't block
<didrocks> argh :/
<jibel> didrocks, sequences are not identical, it tries different format
<jibel> fmt.pix={width=1280, height=800 .... changes between each call
<jibel> maybe the external webcam has more capabilities than the internal one and it takes much longer to check them
<jibel> just a guess
<jibel> doesn't sound dbus relaed to m
<jibel> related*
<didrocks> could beâ¦ so we would have 2 different issues
<Guest34021> Hello, sabdfl is Mark Shuttleworth ?
<oSoMoN> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1020/who-is-sabdfl-what-does-he-do
<jibel> downgraded the kernel then cheese and no difference
<jibel> more than 30s to launch with an external webcam
<doko> didrocks, are there any transitions you would like to start with for b?
<didrocks> doko: nothing that I know of at least. gjs was the big one and already in a
<jibel> I think the cheese issue has nothing to do the other slowness. It's just that cheese spends more time probing the webcam for its capabilities and the external camera support 36 formats against 12 for the internal
<willcooke> that probing shouldn't take 20+ seconds though
<jibel> indeed, there is definitely room for optimization
<jibel> could be something in gstreamer
<willcooke> But then why would disconnecting the web cam also make shutting down quicker
<willcooke> krashekspress_, when you get a moment, can you open the users panel in control center with and without the camera attached?
<jibel> no idea, shutting down is fast for me with or without the webcam
<jibel> just cheese is slow when the webcam is attached
<willcooke> lemme try and rmmode the webcam driver and see if that fixes opening users for me
<krashekspress_> willcooke, with camera 12sec, without camera instant
<willcooke> Kamilion, thanks
<willcooke> jibel, yeah, rmmod uvcvideo and users opens instantly for me too
<willcooke> very very odd
<jibel> strange
<krashekspress_> that is one strange correlation
<willcooke> :)
<krashekspress_> smells like spaghetti ;)
<jibel> let me try on another machine
<willcooke> vithiri, website fixed
<willcooke> desktoppers ^
<jibel> willcooke, ah I've the problem on my other machine
<jibel> with the webcam attached the accounts panel takes a while to open
<krashekspress_> funny thing, I had this problem on 17.04 (and probably 16.10, can't remember), but it wasn't reproducable 100% of the time
<krashekspress_> now it works like a feature 10/10 :)
<jibel> krashekspress_, and you were running unity or gnome-shell?
<krashekspress_> that problem was only on gnome-shell
<krashekspress_> doesn't matter what distro
<krashekspress_> well only other distro I tried on desktop with gnome-shell was Arch
<jibel> I'm wondering if the account panel is using gstream for the mugshot
<krashekspress_> and it was suffering from same behavior
<willcooke> jibel, oooooh, interesting
<krashekspress_> one more thing, I think it didn't affect account panel on old settings, but I can't be sure
<jibel> which would probe the webcam and that would be the same problem than cheese startup time
<krashekspress_> old settings from 3.24 (i think)
<ogra_> jibel, it should really only init the cam when actullay taking the mugshot though ...
<ogra_> *actually
<popey> Hm, in 17.10 under wayland, can someone (in firefox) go to http://snapcraft.io/atom and click the install button and tell me what happens?
<jibel> willcooke, that's a win
<jibel> 0:00:00.952296320 ^[[333m 2276^[[00m 0x562201c56720 ^[[37mDEBUG  ^[[00m ^[[00m                v4l2 gstv4l2object.c:2577:gst_v4l2_object_probe_caps_for_format:<v4l2deviceprovider0>^[[00m Enumerating frame sizes for YUYV
<jibel> 0:00:06.381870733 ^[[333m 2276^[[00m 0x562201c56720 ^[[37mDEBUG  ^[[00m ^[[00m                v4l2 gstv4l2object.c:2602:gst_v4l2_object_probe_caps_for_format:<v4l2deviceprovider0>^[[00m done iterating discrete frame sizes
<jibel> 6s to enumerate the frame sizes with the camera attached
<popey> for me, firefox says "The address wasn't understood" (the snap:// url scheme seems broken
<popey> (just want to make sure it's not just my pc before I file a bug)
<krashekspress_> if I can offtopic a bit, why there is no suspend button? Is there some other option I can use when leaving pc for few hours? shutdown is not an option :)
<krashekspress_> popey, for me too
<popey> krashekspress_: hold ALT and press the indicator area, shutdown becomes suspend (pause icon)
<jibel> krashekspress_, willcooke what is the bug #?
<willcooke> popey, confirmed. But xdg-open is working, which is odd.  Please log and ping me the #
<popey> kk
<krashekspress_> jibel, 1725163
<popey> willcooke: file against what? gnome-software?
<jibel> krashekspress_, thx
<willcooke> popey, Firefox I think
<popey> kk
<jibel> krashekspress_, yeah but that's for the shutdown not the user panel
<krashekspress_> popey, thanks, now I wonder what was wrong with just adding one more icon :)
<jibel> I can reproduce the user panel issue but not the shutdown
<jibel> maybe it's different
<popey> krashekspress_: (I agree)
<popey> Pretty sure elementaryOS add the icon in there. But I never click it, I just slam the lid of the laptop shut, so doesn't affect me so much :)
<willcooke> popey, FYI Chromium works
<krashekspress_> jibel, 783789 ?
<popey> k
<jibel> krashekspress_, thanks
<krashekspress_> popey, haha, slamming is also not an option on desktop, well maybe in certain moments
<popey> willcooke: http://pad.lv/1725238
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1725238 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Clicking snap:// urls doesn't work " [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> popey, ta, assigned
<oSoMoN> willcooke, I'll take a look
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN, this used to work, so I think it's a change in the new ffox
<vithiri> willcooke: Yes, I noticed that from my phone earlier when visiting it. Awesome. :)
<didrocks> vithiri: I think you can see that https://www.ubuntu.com/ has now the dock in the correct place! :)
<didrocks> willcooke: hum, the software center isn't the correct icon, and there is no "apps" button at the bottom (nor it's our default launchers) ^
<didrocks> I think they cut the button and mess with the sessions :p
<willcooke> good spot didrocks
<willcooke> poked on web-team
<mdeslaur> if only there was a way to actually take a screenshot on the real product! ;)
<willcooke> :)
<didrocks> they probably tried with shutter on wayland ;)
<Guest34021> Hello
<Guest34021> What is the codename for Ubuntu 18.04LTS ?
<mgedmin> not decided yet afaik
<Guest34021> When will it be decided?
<ogra_> once mark has an epiphany
<Guest34021> ok
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, are you looking into distro-patching the fix for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1382323 ?
<ubot5> Mozilla bug 1382323 in Security: Process Sandboxing "Firefox 54 on Fedora 26 doesn't launch custom protocol handler" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<kenvandine> popey, do you have the mojo to trigger a rebuild of the corebird snap?
<oSoMoN> chromium snap promoted from candidate to stable, I'll write about it shortly
<kenvandine> popey, i want it to pick up the desktop helpers fix so it works on fedora :)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, awesome!
<oSoMoN> and launching a new build with the latest upstream stable version
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, ah... time to repeat the process :)
<popey> kenvandine: good question!
<kenvandine> it's snapcrafters, so i think you do :)
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, have you tested your chromium snap on fedora?
<popey> kenvandine: https://github.com/snapcrafters/corebird/blob/master/snap/snapcraft.yaml
<popey> thats the yaml, is it actually using the desktop launcher?
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine>     after: [desktop-gnome-platform]
<kenvandine> so it should work on fedora after a rebuild
<popey> ok
<popey> the only way I can do that is change the yaml
<popey> we don't have a manual trigger option
<kenvandine> that's annoying :)
<kenvandine> but a no change commit should work right?
<popey> yes, I'll try
<kenvandine> oh wait though
<kenvandine> i might need you to change something in it
<kenvandine>  :)
<popey> hah
<popey> you can :D
<kenvandine> it isn't autoconnecting and it should
<kenvandine> oh... i can?
<popey> I'll gladly accept a PR :D
<kenvandine> great
<kenvandine> i'll do that
<willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
 * kenvandine tests corebird fix
<oSoMoN> https://plus.google.com/+OlivierTilloy/posts/fC3SUKPZm4w
<oSoMoN> jbicha, thanks for verifying the SRU for bug #1718446
<ubot5> bug 1718446 in gdm3 (Ubuntu Artful) "Ensure wayland -> xorg fallback to the corresponding session" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1718446
<oSoMoN> do IÂ need to ping the release team to have the update promoted from -proposed to -updates?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, just tested your chromium snap on fedora, seems to work fine
<jbicha> yes, usual procedure is to wait 7 days before SRUs go to -updates but Release Team grants exceptions some times
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, but the fonts look terrible.  Not on the rendered sites, but the UI fonts
<kenvandine> menus, address bar, etc
<jbicha> kenvandine: what Fedora version?
<kenvandine> 26
<popey> oSoMoN: have you tested this on nvidia hardware?
<oSoMoN> popey, no, I still don't own nvidia hw
<popey> oSoMoN: its broken
<oSoMoN> darn
<oSoMoN> popey, how much broken?
<popey> wont start, grey screen
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, right, most likely because the default system font on fedora is not included in the snap
<oSoMoN> popey, that's not a regression compared to the previous stable version of the snap however?
<oSoMoN> popey, I need to seriously look into that issue (and try to get my hands on nvidia hw)
<popey> indeed, revision 9 is equally broken
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, I've added a solus-specific font to the snap to get the UI to display correctly on that distro, I could probably do the same for fedora, but this doesn't really scale, what we need is the work jam_esh did on using system-wide fonts in snapd to be released
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> it's fine :)
<oSoMoN> popey, not much comfort, but at least it's not a regression so no good reason to revert
<jbicha> it makes sense to add Cantarell as a workaround since nearly all GNOME distros default to that
<popey> Right, but this wouldn't fly with a deb
<oSoMoN> agreed
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, can you confirm that the default UI font on fedora is cantarell? I can add it to the snap for the next iteration
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, checking
<didrocks> yeah, Cantarell is default fedora font
<didrocks> (actually, default GNOME font, which is now default fedora one)
<oSoMoN> ack, thanks
<oSoMoN> adding it to the snap
<popey> Are we adding every distro default font? :)
<kenvandine> it is
<oSoMoN> popey, only distros we care about I guess :)
<oSoMoN> I mean IÂ won't go over all supported distros and add their fonts one by one, but if IÂ get a report and it's easy enough to fix by simply adding a stage package, I don't mind
<oSoMoN> the solus font was a fun one, because it's not available as a deb, so I'm fetching the solus package and unpacking it in the right place
<oSoMoN> good that font files are architecture-independent :)
 * popey wonders what font Pop!?!?!_OS uses.
<kenvandine> i've added some of those to the gnome platform snap, so not everyone needs too
<oSoMoN> the chromium snap is not using the gnome platform snap though
<kenvandine> right
<oSoMoN> popey, quick question re-nvidia brokenness: does it work any better with a more recent snapd (i.e. with the core snap from the candidate or edge channel) by any chance?
<kenvandine> so confusing... corebird still won't autoconnect to the platform snap
<kenvandine> so weird
<kenvandine> popey, https://github.com/snapcrafters/corebird/pull/14
<kenvandine> maybe installing it from the store will work better :)
 * kenvandine is out of ideas
<popey> merged
<kenvandine> popey, thx
<kenvandine> https://github.com/system76/pop-gtk-theme#recommendations
<kenvandine> their fonts are Fira and Roboto
<oSoMoN> fonts-firacode appears to be monospace, so I guess only roboto would be needed to get the UI to display properly?
<didrocks> well, parts of some apps UI could force monospace
<oSoMoN> I don't think chromium does, but I can add firacode just for safety, the size overhead will be minimal compared to the CJK fonts we ship already
<oSoMoN> Installed-Size: 1 559 kB
<oSoMoN> should be fine
<didrocks> yeah, I don't know what it's using if some webfonts are not available and trying to use monospace, so better to be safe, as you told, the size isn't relevant
<popey> kenvandine: corebird finished building and should be in edge
<oSoMoN> added, the next automatic build will have cantarell, fira and roboto
<oSoMoN> the chromium snap is quickly becoming a fonts-collection snap
<willcooke> oSoMoN, once jamesh's font fixes land in snapd that should go away \o/
 * oSoMoN EOW, have a great week-end everyone!
<kenvandine> oSoMoN, have a great weekend
<willcooke> right, I'm calling it a day as well.  Night all
<willcooke> have a great weekend, lots to do next week ;)
<mhall119> congrats on the big release everyone!
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-10-21
<edwinksl> quick question: i noticed the builds for firefox nightly (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages) have been failing the past couple days. any idea what's happening?
<sarnold> zesty amd64 looks to have failed from: error: use of unstable library feature 'sort_unstable' (see issue #40585)
<sarnold> artful ppc64 looks to have failed from: error: âEnterJitTypeâ has not been declared
<sarnold> xenial i386 appears to have the same rust unstable feature use error
<sarnold> trusty armhf looks to have failed when running configure.py due to raise MetaCharacterException(match['special'])
#ubuntu-desktop 2017-10-22
<dupondje> Wayland is not available when running nouveau?
<mitya57> Should be available.
<dupondje> strange. For some reason I can only see Xorg options on gdm3
 * mitya57 is not the best one to ask about this though
<dupondje> :)
<mitya57> https://didrocks.fr/2017/10/18/ubuntu-gnome-shell-in-artful-day-16/ says that Wayland is disabled for ânvidia proprietary driver or unsupported hardwareâ
<dupondje> guess i'm in the "unsupported hardware" category then ... strange
<mbiebl> dupondje: what do you get if you run /usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-check-accelerated
<dupondje> $ /usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-check-accelerated
<dupondje> Mesa DRI Intel(R) Sandybridge Mobile
<dupondje> or $ DRI_PRIME=1 /usr/lib/gnome-session/gnome-session-check-accelerated
<dupondje> NVC1
<dupondje> 2 VGA cards inside the laptop ...
<mbiebl> hm, not much experient with optimus laptops
<mbiebl> experience ...
<dupondje> unfortunately I have one :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-15
<readlnh> 0+
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> Salut didrocks
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> didrocks, Ã§a va? tu as passÃ© un bon w-e?
<duflu> o/  didrocks, jibel  \o
<didrocks> jibel: bon week-end, ensoleillÃ©, un peu de jeux pour Martin, donc c'Ã©tait sympa
<didrocks> et toi ?
<didrocks> hello duflu
<jibel> didrocks, match de hand samedi et cinÃ© hier sinon repos
<jibel> good morning duflu
<didrocks> sympa :)
<didrocks> jibel: do you want us to coordonate iso testing? I think I have some free slots to give some help if needed
<jibel> didrocks, that's fine for the moment, I'm reviewing all the test cases to make sure nothing is utterly broken then we'll have more respins.
<jibel> didrocks, although wednesday and thursday are usually busy and any help will be welcome
<didrocks> jibel: deal! :)
<jibel> Trevinho, Hi, have you been able to reproduce bug 1794280 on latest desktop image (buid 20181013.1) ?
<ubot5> bug 1794280 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Cosmic) "gdm doesn't start on a fresh installation of Cosmic Desktop" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794280
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128. How goes?
<seb128> good! you?
<jibel> bonjour seb128
<seb128> lut jibel
<seb128> did you have a good w.e?
<jibel> seb128, oui bien et toi?
<duflu> seb128, yes pretty good. I feel I've almost caught up on my pre-travel domestic tasks
<didrocks> salut seb128
<seb128> nickel, y a fait beau et les gastros Ã©taient passÃ©es pour tout le monde :)
<didrocks> enfin un week-end tranquil donc ? :)
<seb128> ouais :)
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ? t'as passÃ© un bon w.e ?
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut seb128, didrocks, duflu
<oSoMoN> excellent long week-end, oui, merci!
<seb128> Trevinho, hey, bug #1797851 started with your most recent change, would be nice if you could have a look
<ubot5> bug 1797851 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "/usr/bin/nautilus:11:g_type_check_instance_cast:NAUTILUS_SEARCH_PROVIDER:nautilus_search_engine_stop:stop_search:disconnect_model_handlers" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797851
<didrocks> seb128: so, on check-language-support, it's even worse than I thought
<didrocks> the info of "installed / want to have installed languages is coming from account services"
<didrocks> on a fresh "french" selected installation, the list is:
<didrocks>  fr_CA en_US  fr_FR en en_AU fr en_GB en_CA
<didrocks> so some variants for french and english
<didrocks> english is set at install time selecting en_US + fr_FR
<didrocks> the others seems to be pulled by account-services, I think that's the switch to account-services which (maybe?) has us regressed
<didrocks> and what I told the other days stays: if we select "en", all en_* are then selected
<didrocks> /usr/share/language-tools/language-options is in perlâ¦ hum
<didrocks> but:
<didrocks> # add items without country code to facilitate lookups
<didrocks>     ( my $lang = $loc ) =~ s/_[A-Z]+//;
<didrocks> so stripping the _ is something done on purpose in language-options
<seb128> hum
<seb128> I don't think the use of account-services is any recent, it was probably there at the time we looked at the topic for xenial and probably didn't change since
<didrocks> yeah, just checked that, oneiric
<didrocks> but maybe it wasn't doing the above stripping of _, which leads to thatâ¦
<didrocks> anyway, ubiquity / check-language-support should be in sync (one using the other one) to determine what to install / remove
<didrocks> I wonder though how much effort this is, depending if we replace the installerâ¦
<didrocks> (also, the seed should be in sync with check-language-support, which isn't the case)
<didrocks> that's separate from L_aney issue though, which is to ensure at least if you select en_GB, that en_GB is indeed selected and not en_US
<seb128> right
<seb128> we should maybe talk to GunnarHj about it, he knows the tricks in those perl scripts and why they are there
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> because it sounds really like a yak shaving task :p
<didrocks> but at least, understanding this could be in a new installer redesign
<didrocks> (fortunately, the perl script isn't really long)
<seb128> well, if that worked in xenial the diff/change/bug is probably trivial, I doubt we had any "real change" in that stack
<seb128> but yeah, doing it properly is likely yak shaving
<seb128> and it doesn't seem important/high priority
<seb128> thanks for investigating
<seb128> I don't think it's worth persuing more atm, unless you have interest to get to the bottom of it
<seb128> otherwise maybe record what you found in a bug report and call it enough for now?
<didrocks> seb128: it worked in xenial when I tested it
<didrocks> in January 2016
<didrocks> but not in 16.04.5 as told on Friday
<didrocks> so, even diffing isn't trivial :/
<didrocks> I'm just printing a little bit what we get in the perl functions, and yes, file that in a bug report
<seb128> didrocks, weird that it regression in a point update, or maybe it got buggy before .0 went out?
<didrocks> I think there is a high chance of regression before .0 IMHO
<Laney> moin
<didrocks> hey Laney, how is London?
<Laney> grey, cold
<Laney> but i'm with some GREAT! GUYS!
<Laney> how are you?
<didrocks> I'm good, thanks! Overall great week-end :)
<didrocks> you are with great gruys, unlike every week on IRC, I see, I see :p
<Laney> i can touch these people
 * Laney touches sil2100 to prove it
<seb128> hey Laney, how is the office?
<didrocks> "good" news, if you try to apply updates via GNOME Software, at least, you nothing is applied on boot, so you don't end up in a broken situation
<seb128> ?
<didrocks> well, you mentioned on Friday that GNOME Software update panel isn't hidden, which is a bug to fix
<seb128> you are referring to bug #1797543 ?
<ubot5> bug 1797543 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Gnome-software - unable to update software - Button Restart & Update, restarts no updates applied" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797543
<seb128> I don't think your statement is always true
<didrocks> ah?
<didrocks> I have a mix of "system updates" + apps
<seb128> we had report from foundations in bionic that it leads to screwed update when debconf is involved
<seb128> maybe you didn't have anything with debconf
<didrocks> could be, indeed, or maybe another package to install triggers packagekit to activate?
<didrocks> (I'm a vanilla, default install)
<seb128> well, that prompt kicks in the offline updates from packagekit
<seb128> so if you reboot it does install updates in background I think
<didrocks> which did nothing at all for me (no update, nothing)
<seb128> nothing visible
<seb128> you are sure it didn't install them in a way you didn't notice?
<didrocks> I checked the package list and version before/after
<didrocks> identical
<seb128> k, another bug then :p
<seb128> it "worked" for some people in bionic
<didrocks> well, a "good" one in that case :)
<didrocks> yeah :/
<seb128> so either that "regressed"
<seb128> or it's random
<didrocks> could be, tried twice to ensureâ¦
<seb128> anyway I would prefer if Robert fixed it, he knows what to change from his comment on the bug
<seb128> but I think he called it a day without having uploaded anyway
<didrocks> or maybe you install something else which then hook up in the boot
<seb128> unsure how much it's a release vs SRU issue
<didrocks> yeah, as I didn't see anything coming, I wanted to check how bad that was
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> it's alright yeah
<didrocks> seb128: do you know if there is any particular fixes we are interested in on new evince for bionic?
<Trevinho> jibel: kvm yes... and i think is the same of willcooke one, I've spent some time on it already.
<Trevinho> And looking at it still
<Trevinho> seb128: hi seb, ok
<jibel> Trevinho, I didn't try on kvm but I cannot reproduce it anymore on hw
<Trevinho> jibel: kvm on qxl happens here. Time dependent a sleep fixes it
<Trevinho> andyrock: ^
<didrocks> seb128: (as you just left when I posted that): do you know if there is any particular fixes we are interested in on new evince for bionic?
<didrocks> like some particular checks I should put in the test case?
<seb128> not that I know no, sorry
<didrocks> no worry, preferred to double check!
<didrocks> I'll discuss the ps thingy with our security team though
<didrocks> to ensure that's ok
<andyrock> Trevinho: cannot run libvirt-bin.service here so I cannot test
<Trevinho> seb128: I've pushed nautilus branches for both cosmic and bionic.
<seb128> Trevinho, bionic is another regression fix for the current SRU?
<Trevinho> seb128: it's fixing the pkg in sru queue
<Trevinho> seb128: so, I was wondering if mentioning the bug in changelog or not, but for sure it doesn't need classic verification
<seb128> Trevinho, if there was not git to deal with I would just re-upload to replace the current SRU from the queue without changing the version/changelog/bug reference
<seb128> unsure what to do with the vcs in that case though
<Trevinho> seb128: well, we can still do some force pushes, but not sure :-P
<seb128> yeah, it would be bzr I would bzr uncommit; change; bzr commit; bzr push --overwrite
<seb128> just how do that with git doesn't stick for me, or it feels too hackish
<Trevinho> seb128: you can do the same on git, l_aney wouldn't like it but I can give you the recipe for the happiness if you want xD
<seb128> haha
<seb128> what happens if you tag again the same revision? it moves the tag to the new commit?
<seb128> I mean tag again using the same tag string
<seb128> not tagging the same commit id
<Laney> it is exactly the same level of hackiness as it would be with bzr
<Laney> you have to delete the tag and then re-tag
<jbicha> seb128: by default anyone who has pulled the old tag won't get the new tag so if you think people might have the old tag, it may be better to use a new tag name
<jbicha> also version numbers are cheap so it might just be easier to use a higher version number
<jbicha> good morning
<didrocks> morning jbicha
<seb128> hey jbicha
<seb128> jbicha, is that a bug that people won't get the tag change or by design?
<jbicha> that's git upstream. I guess it's intentional
<seb128> :(
<jbicha> willcooke: I experience something that looks kinda like bug 1796822 if I enable automatic login in Settings > Details > Users then reboot (using VirtualBox after installing cosmic)
<ubot5> bug 1796822 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Desktop live cd boots corrupted screen in Virtualbox on Bionic" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796822
<jbicha> do you think Debian bug 910892 is worth handling now in cosmic? (by uncommenting those header lines)
<ubot5> Debian bug 910892 in gdm3 "gdm3: greeter.dconf-defaults is confusing for users" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/910892
<seb128> that doesn't seem important enough to be accepted now
<seb128> could be a SRU though
<jbicha> seb128: because it would trigger a debconf prompt for anyone who has modified those files, I don't think it's very good for an SRU
<jbicha> or maybe it wouldn't trigger debconf, it's a strange file
<didrocks> well, it's fine for a 0-day SRU, as it's only for updates
<seb128> or it's fine for cosmic+1
<seb128> it's only an issue for users who sudo edit a conffile
<seb128> and screw their editing
<Laney> somebody want to look into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1796275 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796275 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Screen reader is not auto-enabled on first login if enabled when installing" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> on a similar topic bug #1797861
<ubot5> bug 1797861 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Screen reader doesn't read installer's GUI during a live session installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1797861
<Laney> yes I already looked at that one
<seb128> ah ok
<Laney> similar in that it's about screen reader at least
<Laney> but it's probably not the same bug
<seb128> right, I just saw it passing by in my morning review of "recent bugs"
<Laney> okies
<Laney> so, anyone?
<seb128> didrocks, ^ interested? if not I'm going to have a look
<didrocks> seb128: I can, unsure though to have enough time before EOD
<didrocks> so, don't expect a fix necessarily tonight
<seb128> I don't
<seb128> thx didrocks!
<didrocks> yw ;)
<Laney> merci
<seb128> Laney, how are things looking from a London/r-t perspective atm?
<Laney> xnox is looking into http://launchpad.net/bugs/1795882
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1795882 in casper (Ubuntu) ""Remove media" message is not displayed after installation" [Undecided,Confirmed]
 * didrocks update-iso first
 * Laney assigns to document that
<seb128> ah, nice
<seb128> plymouth is not happy in cosmic
<Laney> otherwise, going to upload ubiquity soon and then do some moar isos
<Laney> why not?
<seb128> e.u.c top 1-3-5-6-8 from the weekly 18.10 view are plymouth reports
<seb128> well, look variants of the same issue
<jibel> the main issue is bug 1794292
<ubot5> bug 1794292 in plymouth (Ubuntu Cosmic) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in /sbin/plymouthd:11 in ply_renderer_set_handler_for_input_source -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_renderer_input -> ply_keyboard_stop_watching_for_input -> ply_device_manager_deactivate_keyboards -> on_deactivate" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794292
<Laney> finally go the f-ing thing to load
<jibel> which had been marked fixed but is not. I just reopened it
 * Laney spanks e.u.c
<Laney> is that the one cyphermox tried to fix?
<jibel> yes
<Laney> nod
<cyphermox> there's still a lot of room for improvement in plymouth
<Trevinho> I also had a look in that some weeks ago
<Trevinho> and I had some further ideas, that I thought were handled by that change, but it seems not.. .I see if  i can get something out of my stashes later
<Trevinho> while in the gdm side of things..
<Trevinho> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/VzqX2JQw4D/
<Laney> NON ESISTENTE
<cyphermox> I have a possible fix, if it's breaking for the reason I think it is
<cyphermox> jibel: were you able to reproduce the crash? I can't
<jibel> cyphermox, no I cannot anymore
<cyphermox> so I fixed your crash, but not all of them?
<jibel> I am not sure what fixed it actually
<Trevinho> Laney: exactly... is it normal that we're at that point with no devices around, who should be in charge of waiting them? I wouldn't think is gdm job. is it?
<didrocks> jbicha: are you looking at gdm3 which is stuck in proposed?
<didrocks> (didn't look at it at all)
<jbicha> didrocks: either we need to ignore the systemd autopkgtest or retry it until it works. I think it is more likely to pass when the amd64 autopkgtest builders aren't as busy
<jbicha> gdm was stuck for a few days because we had to handle the s390x removal again
<didrocks> jbicha: ok, seems like you are retrying/looking at it
<jbicha> sort of. We're running low on time for it to get in the iso's though
<didrocks> maybe check with the release team if they are happy discarding autopkgtest results?
<jbicha> infinity: ^ do you want to force gdm3 in now?
<infinity> jbicha: We're on it.
<Laney> Trevinho: dunno
<Laney> how come plymouth works?
<Trevinho> using fb?
<Laney> not the graphical splash no?
<seb128> jbicha, ricotz, did you see that the SRU team had a question on bug #1782122?
<ubot5> bug 1782122 in vala (Ubuntu Bionic) "[SRU] Update vala in bionic to 0.40.8" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1782122
<Trevinho> ffffffffffffffffff  broke my kvm :(
<bob91> Hi guys
<bob91> anyone knows how to speed up gnome-shell performance with nvidia driver on ubuntu 18 ?
<oSoMoN> bob91, that's a very vague question, are you seeing specific performance issues that you think a driver update might solve?
<oSoMoN> note that we have people actively working on gnome-shell performance in general
<willcooke> gnight all.  Laney I think I can come down tomorrow now, but probably not until just before lunch.
<willcooke> Should see you tomorrow
<oSoMoN> good evening all
<Trevinho> Laney: world is strange indeed https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/PFdG0Rz4/CanGraphical.png
<Trevinho> And in fact here, with that gdm proposed change, it doesn't run. Because `sd_seat_can_graphical' will always return false.
<kyrofa> Hey kenvandine, Trevinho can you two think of a CLI hello-world-type example that I can use as a test that the new glib extension works?
<kyrofa> g_print hello world works with or without the desktop-launch stuff, so that's not quite enough to exercise it
<Trevinho> kyrofa: by new extension you mean? like new functions?
<kyrofa> Trevinho, new version of the desktop helpers
<Trevinho> kyrofa: mh not sure I got it... You want to check if new version of desktop-helpers is running?
<Trevinho> or in general if those are running?
<kyrofa> Trevinho, but basically, my question could be rephrased as "can you think of a hello-world type simple CLI application that verifies that the desktop-glib part works" ?
<Trevinho> kyrofa: ok.... things like checking mime types could be a way
<kyrofa> Ah, let me give that a try, thank you
<Trevinho> so using gfile maybe? Or a simple gtk app?
<Trevinho> well gtk app as cmd line I mean
<Trevinho> like just passing --help :)
<Laney> Trevinho: think you need the latest version of the branch
<Laney> but I'm saying (many times :P) that I'm not convinced the CanGraphical thing is the right place to be looking
<Laney> UNLESS the reason it goes to =no is the same reason that it's breaking sometimes
<Laney> I think andyrock was next going to investigate what makes it change to 'no'
<andyrock> yeah I'll do that tomorrow
<Laney> â¥
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-16
<Trevinho> morning...
<Trevinho> Laney: I've been using latest version, but I agree it wasn't the case here to look at. But I tried that branch in kms and simply it will stop ubuntu running forever in kms, as  CanGraphical never goes to 'yes'.
<Trevinho> so indeed I think is a lower level thing, just speaking of the effect here
<duflu> Morning Trevinho
<duflu> Wait. Trevinho is first online.
 * duflu suspects he hasn't gone to bed yet
<Trevinho> xD
<Trevinho> ahaha, I did, but I had to drive a friend to the airport, so I had an early alarm :(
<didrocks> good morning
<Trevinho> hi didrocks
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<duflu> Hello didrocks
<didrocks> morning duflu
<seb128> k, back!
<seb128> hey didrocks Trevinho duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<duflu> Hi seb128
<seb128> how is everyone today?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut seb128, hey oSoMoN
<acheronuk> LP: #1798005
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1798005 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer crashed on the "Who Are You?" panel." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798005
<acheronuk> can anyone check ubuntu main for that bug?
<acheronuk> I have to walk out the door in a few mins
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, seb128
<acheronuk> log: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/kbzDFYpCBT/
<seb128> lut oSoMoN; en forme ?
<didrocks> seb128: on the "how is everyone" -> doing another yack shaving it seems :p
<didrocks> and you?
<oSoMoN> seb128, Ã§a va, et toi?
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<seb128> oSoMoN, Ã§a va bien!
<seb128> didrocks, poor yack, winter is coming they need to keep warm :p the installer/screen reader one?
 * duflu was briefly distracted by spider killing... Happy spring
<didrocks> seb128: yeah, the whole a11y stack basically
<seb128> :(
<seb128> do you have a clue what's the issue is?
<didrocks> yep
<seb128> how do you ubiquity carry over the config to the installed system?
<didrocks> it's usingâ¦ a11y-profile-manager
<seb128> lol
<didrocks> which isn't seeded anymore
<seb128> that explains :)
<didrocks> same, isolinux is using a11y-profile-manager
<seb128> shrug, I did revert some of that when I fixed other a11y problems in previous cycle
<didrocks> which has a lot of vulneravities
<seb128> I should have done a full revert to the codebase before that component was added :/
<didrocks> like well-known names owned by root in /tmp
<seb128> but a11y-profile-manager isn't used/on the iso anymore, is it?
<didrocks> also, this thingy doesn't really know about GNOME
<didrocks> it's not on the iso
<didrocks> but isolinux set the profile you select based on it
<seb128> ah :/
<seb128> shrug, we should have reverted those changes
<didrocks> and ubiquity, at install time, runs a hook which triggers it
<seb128> that component was added not so long ago
<didrocks> I like as well the usage of:
<didrocks> function_witout_parameter() {
<didrocks>   â¦ read global variables â¦
<didrocks> }
<didrocks> â¦set global variablesâ¦ with "if profile"
<didrocks> function_witout_parameter()
<didrocks> the whole code is like that :/
<willcooke> morning
<seb128> hey willcooke
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<seb128> at the office again today?
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<Laney> yo
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you? enjoy the great London?
<didrocks> morning Laney
<seb128> and the citizenM?
<willcooke> seb128, not yet, but might go in a little later on.  Got some meetings this mirning
<seb128> willcooke, you didn't send the traditional "who is where this week" and "meeting reminder" btw :p
<willcooke> darn
<willcooke> I'll do it no
<willcooke> now
<Laney> seb128: it's good! nice cappuccino this morning :>
<Laney> & hey didrocks willcooke
<Laney> I forgot to do a status update
<seb128> bad Laney :p
<Laney> probably do it after we fix the installer that we broke :-)
<seb128> haha
<Laney> release traditions
<seb128> with Didier we decided to stay away from doing late changes to fix a11y this cycle
<seb128> the "onscreen reader is not enabled after installation if selected during install" is there since 17.10 :/ (casper still uses a11y-profile-manager than we killed from the iso/main when we switched to GNOME)
<Trevinho> hi guyz
<Laney> whoops!
<Laney> good that it's not new though
<didrocks> yeah, and we know what happens when we fix a11y in the installer, right?
<didrocks> we can create a new tradition, but I'm not in :p
<Laney> you could try elif finished_step == 'ubiquity.components.partman_commit':
<Laney> WHAT
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1797861
<Laney> that
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1797861 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Screen reader doesn't read installer's GUI during a live session installation" [Undecided,New]
<Laney> guessing that's not covered by previous statements about a11y-thingy
<didrocks> No, it's not related on that one
<didrocks> (we are only talking about getting options from isolinux and setting them on the final installed system)
<seb128> right, I'm going to give a try to that one
<Laney> thanks!
<didrocks> Laney: stupid question, but how do you trigger maybe-ubiquity using Boxes/kvm?
<didrocks> Laney: I always have isolinux popping up
<didrocks> and so, no way to have maybe-ubiquity
<Laney> you can add it to the kernel cmdline
<didrocks> do you have the exact syntax handy?
<didrocks> otherwise, I can look
<Laney> just add maybe-ubiquity somewhere in there
<didrocks> I guess replacing only-ubiquity by maybe-ubiquity
<didrocks> k! thanks Laney
<didrocks> trying to reproduce the issue as well (can't when booting directly to a live session or install session)
<didrocks> confirmed with maybe-ubiquity -> try ubuntu -> enable a11y -> start ubiquity
<didrocks> indeed, no root apps are read by the screen reader under that config
<seb128> so only when going through maybe ubiquity?
<seb128> or "luck" on that boot?
<didrocks> 100% on one try for both right now ;)
<didrocks> doing more run to confirm or deny
<didrocks> ah, have reproduced in only-ubiquity
<seb128> I wonder if orca gets confused by having the same apps register 2 times or something
<seb128> k, guess not then
<didrocks> hum
<didrocks> it's weird
<didrocks> in that session, it "sometimes work"
<didrocks> like selecting the language list, I get one on fourth selection read
<didrocks> (even if I go very slowly)
<seb128> I'm on the maybe-ubiquity screen and I've activated it but it fails to read anything e.g when I change language
<didrocks> try keyboard
<seb128> oh, yes, I was just doing that
<didrocks> (I didn't try activating a11y on maybe-ubiquity itself)
<didrocks> ah ok
<didrocks> because on the fuzzy results before, I got 100% working with keyboard, but not mouseâ¦
<seb128> so yeah, I picked "try ubuntu"
<seb128> right, same here
<didrocks> something is fishy
<seb128> I was trying the mouse
<seb128> well, keyboard is what makes sense
<didrocks> indeed
<seb128> blind users can probably not use the mouse
<didrocks> but still, don't really like that :)
<seb128> yeah
<didrocks> it's going to hit us back because we don't understand it fully
<seb128> so the reader is working on the live session for me on first try going through maybe-ubiquity
<didrocks> doesn't for me on this second try
<didrocks> maybe-ubiquity -> enabled a11y -> live session -> (a11y enabled already) ubiquity -> nothing (nor mouse or keyboard)
<seb128> k, try 2
<seb128> my first one was
<seb128> "wait to boot to maybe-ubiquity -> alt-super-S, it reads something -> click "try" -> start ubiquity from the launcher -> it reads the ubiquity dialog buttons ("continuer")
<didrocks> I started it from the desktop icon
<didrocks> but apart from that, sameâ¦
<didrocks> you selected french on maybe-ubiquity?
<seb128> yes
<didrocks> let's try
<didrocks> waow
<didrocks> it reads the list in maybe-ubiquity
<didrocks> but with an initial lag of at least 5s
<didrocks> but then, nothing in live sessionâ¦
<didrocks> we should call release week "look at a11y installer issue week"
<seb128> second try, working as well in live
<seb128> "continuer button" is spoken when I start ubiquity once in live
<didrocks> could be racy, but how comeâ¦
<didrocks> and if you sudo gedit?
<seb128> does it work for you if you stop/start the screenreader?
<seb128> any error in the journal?
<seb128> sudo gedit speaks "document sans titre...3
<didrocks> nothing failing looking for a11y in the journal
<didrocks> I tried to stop/start it again
<didrocks> not better
<seb128> you have sound if you use aplay or something?
<seb128> or the test audio from g-c-c?
<didrocks> oh a11y is working
<didrocks> for everything which !root
<seb128> :(
<didrocks> orca has a stacktrace
<didrocks> on shutdown
<didrocks> but nothing when startingâ¦
<didrocks> yeah, all windows which aren't root are working
<didrocks> let me confirm again (I'm sure I've done that) that booting a live session right away works
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> apps as root works in that case
<didrocks> nice sudo apt install pastebinit -> plymouth screen -> exit
<didrocks> it switched vt!
<didrocks> but the session is still running
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/g97MHJdCYr/ <- working env
<didrocks> let's reboot in maybe-ubiquity + session switch and see
<seb128> wfm on another try :/
<didrocks> virtualbox, not kvm?
<Trevinho> sooooooo (Laney), for what I think is also willcooke's issue I think that more than gdm itself, is the way gdm is started. So right now we start it once we've a tty. and for the daemon is probably fine. Problem is that that point there might be no drm card (yet).
<Trevinho> A way to fix this is changing gdm3.service so that it wants a drm card / fb to be there
<didrocks> seb128: ah, even better, in that session, no a11y working at allâ¦
<seb128> :(
<seb128> didrocks, right, virtualbox here
<didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/X46nG3RPFj/ -> failing session (after maybe-ubiquity, enable a11y, try ubuntu)
<Trevinho> but not sure if this is a general rule... As in pure fb scenarios I guess X would start without any FB device in... So maybe gdm should wait for a drm device if trying with wayland, while on X could go without.. .But again even X should wait if there's a fb but there's no X driver for it... So quite a mess :)
<didrocks> nothing fancy diffing the logs, apart from IDs changingâ¦
<seb128> :/
<didrocks> ah!
<didrocks> oct. 16 09:22:28 ubuntu orca-autostart.desktop[8065]: Une autre instance du lecteur dâÃ©cran est dÃ©jÃ  lancÃ©e pour cette session.
<didrocks> oct. 16 09:22:28 ubuntu orca-autostart.desktop[8065]: Lancez Â«Â orca --replaceÂ Â» pour remplacer ce processus par un nouveau.
<didrocks> in that session
<seb128> ah!
<didrocks> if I disable/reenable screen reader
<didrocks> maybe there is a race + something else with sudo?
<seb128> another bug I guess
<seb128> the desactivate not working
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> orca is 4 minutes old
<didrocks> under ubuntu user
<didrocks> no log on shutdown request though :/
<seb128> works everytime here/on virtualbox
<Trevinho> willcooke: your laptop is still with Andrea?
<seb128> I need to step out for early lunch but I try with kvm once I'm back
<seb128> bbl
<didrocks> seb128: enjoy!
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> Trevinho, hey, yes
<willcooke> unless he sold it
<Trevinho> ahaha
<Trevinho> you know... you trusted an Italian..
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> With the money he got, he could have bought a milkshake
<willcooke> Trevinho, reading backscroll
<didrocks> seb128: second time I'm reproducing the "no a11y working at all", I have to kill orca, then I'm in the "orca works with all but root apps"
<Trevinho> in general I think for making things working in any normal scenario, I think there are multiple options... 1) udev rules + systemd service updates for gdm waiting drm cards (what I've done locally, seems to work properly) | 2) making gdm daemon to monitor udev so that if a main drm card is added it tries to create again a display. As right now it fires once, then if it fails, it just doesn't try again.
<willcooke> Trevinho, yeah, so the problem with waiting for a drm device is, as you said, there might not be one in headless mode
<willcooke> Trevinho, from ISO testing some of the flavours I think that some of them do retry the greeter later on
<willcooke> If we could make the systemd service retry, say, three times before giving up, would that do it?
<Trevinho> willcooke: the daemon itself starts properly. it's more a gnome-session thing of not retrying again I think.
<willcooke> ah, kk
<willcooke> so let's just put the sleep statement back in again then
<Trevinho> willcooke: as gdm starts the daemon, then it launches various subdaemons
<willcooke> got ya
<Trevinho> well it's better to use udev anyway...
<Trevinho> like wait for a drm for time, if it doesn't work, then just try.
<willcooke> I was joking about the sleep statement btw :)  Just in case...
<Trevinho> this is the faster and easier fix
<willcooke> sounds good
<Trevinho> well, like having a "max timeout" for headless versions where there might be weird setups with no dri cards, but... well for 99% of ubuntu targets things should actually work
<willcooke> we should get jibel to confirm that it will work for his automated testing. He'll be in London in a few hours
<Trevinho> sooo... eventually I think our main issue is this one: loginctl starts as soon as we've a fb... but having a fb doesn't always mean we've a gfx (dri) card ready to go. So it starts and then fails... CanGraphical doesn't seem to reflect this properly even (as because CanGraphical if is connected to `master-of-seat`, that one is also not safe to use since might be there when fb is set, not when also dri card is there). So for a proper fix
<Trevinho> we've multiple possibilities, for a fix for release I'd go with udev + systemd checks.
<willcooke> Trevinho, +1
 * willcooke -> train
<popey> Just did an install of cosmic daily 20181016 in virtualbox with 3d acceleration on and ubiquity died bug 1798065
<ubot5> bug 1798065 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer crashed :(" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798065
<popey> I suspect this may be a dupe of bug 1798050
<ubot5> bug 1798050 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installation crashed after Continue clicked after presentation of the time Zone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798050
<popey> I switched off 3d acceleration in virtualbox and the install seems to be progressing further.
<willcooke> popey, can you tell me the specs of the VM?  Especially RAM and VRAM
<willcooke> Doing a quick test from the train of some old ISOs I have
<willcooke> see if I can easily find when it broke
<popey> willcooke: 4GB RAM, 128MB VRAM
<willcooke> thx
<willcooke> and did you do a "try" or go direct to install?
<popey> just install
<willcooke> ack
<popey> i just left it till i got the gui with two buttons
<willcooke> popey, and was it on a cosmic host?
<willcooke> i.e. cosmic on cosmic
<willcooke> yes, looks like it was
<willcooke> RTFB
<popey> no
<willcooke> oh
<popey> cosmic vm on bionic host
<willcooke> ah, ok, that data was from inside the VM
<popey> yeah, i filed the bug in the vm using the popup from ubiquity
<seb128> popey, was it a one time thing? or can you reproduce with the same setup?
<seb128> also ubiquity issues at this point of the cycle might be worth raising in #ubuntu-release
<popey> i will attempt to reproduce it now
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> my ISO from Friday worked here
<seb128> Oct 16 10:38:06 ubuntu ubiquity: AssertionError: Failed to mount the target: /target
<seb128> it's similar to bug #1798050 reported earlier
<ubot5> bug 1798050 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installation crashed after Continue clicked after presentation of the time Zone" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798050
<willcooke> I'll retry using the existing diks
<seb128> or bug #1798005
<ubot5> bug 1798005 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer crashed on the "Who Are You?" panel." [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798005
<seb128> ah
<seb128> ^
<willcooke> yeah
<seb128> willcooke, popey, ^ that's the regression L_aney was mention earlier this morning
<seb128> so "known issue/being worked on" it seems
<willcooke> woot
<willcooke> thanks seb128 popey
<willcooke> I'll be in the office in 30 mins, so will report back to the channel
<popey> didnt do it on this run
<popey> thanks seb128
<seb128> popey, it's racy so pretty sure it's that issue, looks like L_aney as a candidate fix in https://git.launchpad.net/ubiquity/commit/?id=d784958
<popey> \o/
<popey> great success
<Laney> yeah feel free to try it if you want
<Laney> you can patch that from the live session
<Trevinho> so... I'm going with the conditional-wait workaround for gdm now, I think is saner (wait drm a bit, otherwise continue how it is). For upstream i've various other ideas. Might be both systemd that would need to do a similar thing or gdm instead to be more robust. As Systemd right now advertize a CanGraphical as soon a there's a /dev/fb0 around, but this is not true if the drm device takes some time to initialize after the fb. And so when
<Trevinho> the drmdevice has been finally added it can't advertize again a CanGraphical change. That's why the fix propsed upstream might help but doesn't fix the problem in all the cases.
<Trevinho> probably lunch first though :P
<dgadomski> hi
<willcooke> hi dgadomski
<jbicha> Trevinho: btw did you see my comment in LP: #1796822 that I get the corrupted screen when I enable autologin
<dgadomski> could anybody please take a look at the merge request for bug #1755490?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1796822 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Desktop live cd boots corrupted screen in Virtualbox on Bionic" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796822
<ubot5> bug 1755490 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Incorrect information about display shown in unity-control-center" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1755490
<Trevinho> jbicha: mh didn't see no, but I think it all might be related to the same issue
<willcooke> dgadomski, is that especially urgent?
<jbicha> yes, I'm commenting because I think there were some indications we fixed the problem but that one still is easily reproducible for me
<Trevinho> jbicha: run with this systemd unity (add a .service and enable it):
<Trevinho> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/6gNvcnai/
<Trevinho> attach the log after that please
<dgadomski> willcooke: nope, not super urgent, it's just there for some time
<willcooke> dgadomski, oki, I propose that we look at it after release then, if that's good for you
<dgadomski> willcooke: yep, completely, thanks
<willcooke> cool
<willcooke> I'll add a trello card
<Trevinho> I mean all these bugs are speed dependent, and because gdm starts too early basically :)
<jbicha> Trevinho: log attached to the bug
<Trevinho> thanks
<Trevinho> jbicha: was udevadm service running?
<Trevinho> jbicha: did you systemctl enable it?
<jbicha> Trevinho: ok, new attachment, thanks!
<Trevinho> ta
<Trevinho> seems to be the same issue
<Nafallo> hmm. remind me what URL the meeting updates lives on again? :-)
<Nafallo> never mind. found it :-)
<willcooke> sorry folks
<willcooke> bear with me
<willcooke> unprepared
<willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 16 October 2018
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 16 13:31:07 2018 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 16 October 2018 | Current topic:
<willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu (out), jbicha, jamesh (out), jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<didrocks> hey!
<Trevinho> o/
<heber> o/
<seb128> hey
<jibel> hi o/
<oSoMoN> hey
<Nafallo> hi there
<willcooke> Laney, andyrock and jibel are here in London
<willcooke> Everyone is very busy with release work, so let's keep this short
<willcooke> We haven't had chance to review the rls bugs, so we will have to do it live
<willcooke> Tracking first:  http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1794280
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1794280 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Cosmic) "gdm doesn't start on a fresh installation of Cosmic Desktop" [Critical,Confirmed]
<willcooke> We're working on that one, happy its in hand.  Could have a fix/work around soon
<willcooke> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1796822
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796822 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Desktop live cd boots corrupted screen in Virtualbox on Bionic" [Critical,Confirmed]
<willcooke> Initial indications are that this is the same bug
<willcooke> Should know for sure soon
<willcooke> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1794951
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1794951 in gnome-calculator (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Calculator (snap) is slow to start on a freshly installed Cosmic machine" [High,Confirmed]
<willcooke> Ken will look at that tomorrow.  Can be fixed with out affecting release
<willcooke> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1797543
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1797543 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Unable to update software - Button Restart & Update, restarts no updates applied" [High,Fix released]
<willcooke> fixed
<willcooke> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1796056
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796056 in xorg-server (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in __strstr_sse2_unaligned() from glamor_egl_init() from try_enable_glamor()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<willcooke> I think we've worked around that mostly.  tjaalton anything more needed there ^ ?
<willcooke> EOL
<tjaalton> willcooke: nope
<seb128> there is an upstream patch that has been merged to error out "properly", unsure if that's good enough though if the erroring out still means screwed systems?
<tjaalton> upstream released 1.20.2 with that, too late for cosmic anyway
<willcooke> tjaalton, will it get an SRU?
<tjaalton> willcooke: maybe
<willcooke> FWIW I havent seen that specific bug in recent testing, so I think all the other fixes we've done are masking it
<seb128> yeah, probably not worth targetting at this point
<willcooke> ok, lets untarget
<willcooke> tjaalton ok with you?
<tjaalton> sure
<willcooke> oki, I will do that in a mo
<willcooke> Incoming:
<willcooke> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-cc-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<willcooke> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1797543
<willcooke> fixed
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1797543 in gnome-software (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Unable to update software - Button Restart & Update, restarts no updates applied" [High,Fix released]
<willcooke> http://launchpad.net/bugs/1796548
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796548 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[regression] New windows are all centred" [Medium,New]
<willcooke> Feature not a bug
<willcooke> +1s to reject?
<Trevinho> yep
<didrocks> yep, changed on purpose
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upower/+bug/1796550
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1796550 in upower (Ubuntu) "[regression] Keyboard brightness control keys (down/up) don't work in cosmic (upower 0.99.8)" [Medium,Triaged]
<willcooke> not a release blocker IMO.  There is a simple fix, but in the spirit of this meeting, notfixing?
<seb128> that sounds like a good SRU
<seb128> right
<didrocks> +1
<seb128> I'm going to add it to my SRU list
<didrocks> (and don't impact everyone btw, just tried)
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1791574
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1791574 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "gnome-shell crashed with SIGABRT: assertion failed "window->display->focus_window != window" in meta_window_unmanage" [Medium,In progress]
<Trevinho> sru too
<willcooke> ack
<Trevinho> seb128: list that too plz
<seb128> ?
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1791574
<didrocks> (on the SRU list, I guess)
<Trevinho> [not if it's "yours"]
<willcooke> not a release blocker for 1791574
<seb128> ah, SRU seems fine
<seb128> if that's the question
<seb128> dunno what you mean by "list that too"
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer-vaapi/+bug/1770725
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1770725 in gstreamer-vaapi (Ubuntu) "Totem window is all black in Wayland sessions on Sandy Bridge CPUs" [Medium,Confirmed]
<willcooke> Since wayland is not the default, I say -1 for rls
<seb128> rls-notfix since it's waylabd
<willcooke> done
<willcooke> ok, that was more like it
<willcooke> :)
<seb128> did we skip over mais il Ã©tait pas trop ouvert, sa rÃ©ponse ?
<seb128> wth?
<Trevinho> seb128: add that to the list (if it's a team sru list) I meant
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/yaru-theme/+bug/1789356
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1789356 in yaru-theme (Ubuntu) "Dark purple (noise) background flashes up briefly during the login animation" [Low,New]
<didrocks> doesn't seem a release blocker, I can have a look for SRU though for bionic-cosmic-eye-users ;)
<willcooke> ok, I already notfixing that one
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> might have been a copy & paste error
<willcooke> any more on the rls bugs?
<didrocks> we had enough of them :p
<willcooke> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 16 October 2018 | Current topic: AOB
<willcooke> Bon chance for release all
<jbicha> please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CosmicCuttlefish/ReleaseNotes
<willcooke> Oh, good call jbicha
<willcooke> I'll take a look at that this afternoon
<willcooke> any more?
<jbicha> if you worked on cool features this cycle, please do add it to the Release Notes so people know about it :)
<willcooke> I have some stuff semi prepared, I can add it
<willcooke> which should call out most of it
<willcooke> ok, ending meeting then
<willcooke> thanks
<didrocks> thx!
<seb128> thx!
<willcooke> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/3VYBPFaR/ubuntu-desktop-1810-cycle | Amaterasu watches over you benevolently
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 16 13:49:33 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2018/ubuntu-desktop.2018-10-16-13.31.moin.txt
<willcooke> 19 mins
<oSoMoN> thanks
<tkamppeter> Sorry I am late, have posted my week (Mentor Summit) now.
<jbicha> tkamppeter: hi, I blogged about https://jeremy.bicha.net/2018/10/14/google-cloud-print-in-ubuntu/
<seb128> jbicha, that only works in libreoffice no?
<jbicha> seb128: it works in other apps
<seb128> or how does it integrate to the gtk print dialog?
<jbicha> yes
<seb128> "how"
<jbicha> dunno :)
<seb128> I mean gtk doesn't use the lib
<jbicha> magic?
<tkamppeter> Jbicha, this is really strange, as the part for the GTK print dialog to support the Common Print Dialog Backends (cpdb-...) is not finished yet.
<seb128> are you sure it's just not gnome-online-accounts doing it?
<seb128> like GNOME upstream feature
<jbicha> hmm
<seb128> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=723368
<ubot5> Gnome bug 723368 in Printing "GTK+ print module for Google Cloud Print" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]
<jbicha> oh, I guess it is GOA not gcp after all
<jbicha> sorry
<seb128> that makes more sense :)
<jbicha> maybe I should have checked with Till before posting
<tkamppeter> I have a GSoC 2018 (the GSoC which ended in August of this year) student who was supposed to do the GTK dialog support, but he did not finish and wants to finish after the summer. I did not yet get this work.
<jbicha> oh
<jbicha> I don't have a printer actually. less headache ð
<seb128> tkamppeter, btw what's the status of the issue that is/Was blocking https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cpdb-libs/+bug/1747759 ?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1747759 in cpdb-libs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] cpdb-libs" [High,Incomplete]
<jbicha> is it only LibreOffice that would support that then?
<tkamppeter> jbicha, by the way, can you compare my user name here in the IRC with the name as you have written in the blog?
<jbicha> sure, sorry about that
<tkamppeter> seb128, not yet solved I must return to get this stuff running on the porter box.
<tkamppeter> at least I have a way again to log into the porter box.
<tkamppeter> seb128, next problem is that I cannot simply run stuff as root or at least privileged printing (lpadmin group) user.
<tkamppeter> jbicha, yes, only LO currently, the rest I hope to get together for the next release.
<juliank> Heya desktop folks, I'm seeing gnome-software prompting me for system updates (reboot&upgrade) on cosmic recently. That seems a bit wrong given that we use update-manager?
<seb128> juliank, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/3.30.2-0ubuntu4 ?
<juliank> ah, thanks, seems I'm out of date
<seb128> np
<jbicha> tkamppeter: I updated my post. I hope it's more accurate now
<tkamppeter> jbicha,  and the GSoC where these projects were done is 2017, not 2007 (I actually started in 2008 with GSoC, and also it is not that easy to integrate 10-year old software into our GUIs).
<jbicha> ok
<seb128> on screenreader issues, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/+bug/1797868
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1797868 in gnome-initial-setup (Ubuntu) "Screen reader doesn't read gnome-initial-setup windows properly" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> desktoppers I've updated the release notes with a bullet list.  Please add to and expand where you can:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CosmicCuttlefish/ReleaseNotes
<seb128> k
<Laney> gggggggdmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<Laney> Trevinho: it's up
<Trevinho> Laney: great, thanks a lot
<willcooke> thanks Trevinho Laney
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-17
<didrocks> good morning!
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<duflu> And bbl
<didrocks> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<didrocks> salut oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> oSoMoN: enrhumÃ©, mais Ã§a va :)
<didrocks> et toi ?
<oSoMoN> Ã§a va, la nuit fut courte, mais je me sens Ã©tonnamment en forme
<didrocks> j'espÃ¨re que ce Ã©tonnamment va rester :)
<didrocks> tiens, je ne sais pas si t'as des idÃ©es sur les langpaks, mais vu que je parle de libreoffice, thunderbird, etc, tu es p-e intÃ©ressÃ© quand tu auras le temps: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1797860/
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1797860 in language-selector (Ubuntu) "Language selection installs too many packages" [Undecided,New]
<oSoMoN> je regarde
<didrocks> pas urgent hein :)
<didrocks> c'est juste des pistes de rÃ©flexion pour comprendre ce que l'on voudrait supporter
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<seb128> good morning desktopers (for a few minutes before taking off for an hour flight)
<duflu> Morning seb128
<duflu> ð«
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<duflu> seb128, going well. Slightly frustrated to be iterating old branches right now. But will finish soon. Have a nice week in sunny London
<seb128> thx, I will be online as usual once there
<seb128> do you get any traction for getting things landed upstream?
<duflu> seb128, forward motion but not huge traction. The good news is that there is plenty of developer and community involvement in testing and review
<duflu> Just not landing much when I resolve the problems
<seb128> let's hope they do slowly get reviewed/landing still though
<seb128> maybe next cycle it's all merged :)
<duflu> Yeah, I am almost responsible for a quarter of mutter merge proposals right now
<duflu> Open ones, not landing ones
<seb128> shrug, launchpad keeps timeouting
<seb128> k, moving, see you later!
<seb128> hey again desktopers
<duflu> ð¬  hi seb128
<didrocks> we really have too many characters in UTF-8 :p
<duflu> Would you believe you missed nothing?
<duflu> Heh
<seb128> didrocks, did bug #1798309 evert worked?
<ubot5> bug 1798309 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "When changing language in maybe-ubiquity, gnome-shell isn't updated to display the correct language" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798309
<seb128> I guess in the pre-gnome-shell time the panel was handled by ubiquity and not an external process
<oSoMoN> hey seb128, you had a good flight?
<seb128> oSoMoN, yeah, less than an hour, uneventfull, they didn't have coffee though, just water/jiuce!
<seb128> hey oSoMoN :) had a short night I saw?
<seb128> still not tired?
<oSoMoN> yes, and I'm still doing fine
<oSoMoN> let's see how that goes just after lunchâ¦
<oSoMoN> when stomach takes over the brain
<seb128> right, that's the tricky time of the day!
<didrocks> seb128: indeed, in the pre-gnome-shell time. I just noticed it and I think it's good to have it listed. However, clearly not a blocker (that's why I didn't put as it) as it's not a regression
<seb128> didrocks, I'm not even sure it's really fixable in fact, I commented on the bug
<seb128> unless you reload the shell, which might mean other issues like flicker
<didrocks> seb128: well, we would need to export new env variable and restart the shell
<didrocks> but yeah
<didrocks> I guess it could be an issue for setting up networkâ¦ doesn't look polish anyway
<didrocks> at least, logged :)
<seb128> right
<seb128> ubiquity has its own page for network
<didrocks> that's true
<seb128> but yeah, would be better if the panel changed dynamically
<seb128> something for the new installer :)
<didrocks> but right now, I'm the same: no clear idea on how to fix that without risking too much
<didrocks> right!
 * didrocks added a note already for it
<didrocks> maybe the new installer should just be a full screen webpage
<seb128> :)
<didrocks> need to think about on screen keyboard ofcâ¦ anyway, enough digression, testing continue :p
<seb128> :)
<seb128> we need a locale picker screen pre-session maybe
<seb128> g-i-s style
<seb128> to replace the syslinux menu since we are loosing that on uefi
<didrocks> yeah, that could be a solution
<didrocks> the issue is more for the nomodeset or soâ¦
<didrocks> as the goal is to get something displayedâ¦ :p
<xnox> andyrock, https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/QdtxJzwswS/
<xnox> just to force you to use SSO ;-)
<seb128> andyrock, can you give me the mp url?
<andyrock> https://code.launchpad.net/%7Eazzar1/ubuntu/+source/gnome-initial-setup/+git/gnome-initial-setup/+merge/356910
<seb128> thx
<willcooke> andyrock, seb128 thank you!
<Trevinho> willcooke: have you tested your laptop further with the fix?
<Trevinho> I also hacked some other gdm changes yesterday so maybe we can get rid of the wait tool.
<willcooke> Trevinho, they broke my haunted laptop
<Laney> If you fix it properly upstream we can replace it.
<willcooke> so I can't reproduce it any more even on the broken images :'(
<willcooke> I'll do more testing
<Trevinho> willcooke:ah, cool xD
<Trevinho> maybe adding an automated script that reboots until it's not broken... you have it already?
<Trevinho> Laney: yeah, can be part of the wip branch you pushed too, although probably systemd infos aren't too reliable so we need to play  a bit with timings.
<Trevinho> I've also something calling gdm on udev changes (not really needed to add the dep here), but unfortunately at systemd level having one single signal (or tagged device) for both fb's and cardÃ¬s doesn't help at all. Since having a fb doesn't mean we also have the card ready yet
<Trevinho> maybe drivers could be better at that adding everything together, but we can't live hoping in a perfect world in this kind of things
<Laney> Depends on what the fix is whether it's part of that branch or not
<Trevinho> one more thing that gdm should probably do is that, I don't think there's any support for working in vesa fb... And that's how it starts initally and then goes back to proper one. So while systemd advertises it as CanGraphical, isn't really graphical.
<Trevinho> not sure if for systemd would make sense to have `SUBSYSTEM=="graphics", KERNEL=="fb[0-9]*", DRIVER!="vesa-framebuffer", TAG+="seat", TAG+="master-of-seat"`
<Trevinho> not that it would change much our issue, but it just avoids to advertize something that is not really the case
<Laney> I don't have much idea
<Laney> probably better off talking to upstream(s) imho
<Laney> better than me anyway
<Wimpress> tjaalton: I've seen some Ubuntu users questioning why 18.10 is not shipping the nvidia 396 drivers.
<tjaalton> tseliot: ^
<Wimpress> Please, can you clarify the rationale. I suspect because 396 is not the long lived release?
<tjaalton> I guess that's why
<tjaalton> 410 was just released as non-beta
<Wimpress> Just want to be clear so I can reply to a few people and nip this in the bud.
<tjaalton> and probably will be sru'd
<Wimpress> Good info. Thanks.
<didrocks> I guess that would be a valuable thread on the hub
<Wimpress> didrocks: Good point.
<seb128> andyrock, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1798360
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1798360 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Invalid read in the snap plugin" [Undecided,New]
<willcooke> didrocks, hey!  I've just noticed something which I can tell if it's a theme issue or a gdm issue, wdyt:
<willcooke> from gdm, enable screen reader.  Then open the a11y menu again and move the mouse over the options
<willcooke> When you hover over the screen reader menu item it will tell you "Screenreader menu item. TICKED" or something like tht
<willcooke> only, there is no tick
<didrocks> ah, indeed, there is none
<didrocks> let's check with default theme
<willcooke> good idea
<didrocks> willcooke: yep, theming issue, default theme have ticks
<didrocks> nicely spotted, mind opening a bug upstream?
<willcooke> didrocks, will do, thanks!
<willcooke> oh oh oh oh
<seb128> didrocks, what's the easiest way to reload gdm with the upstream theme?
<didrocks> seb128: it's an alternative on gdm3.css
<seb128> thx
<didrocks> direct it to /usr/share/gnome-shell/theme/gnome-shell.css
<didrocks> (which should be an option)
<didrocks> I had to extract it from the gresource just for this :(
<seb128> upstream is right, themes running their nice tested code!
<seb128> right
<didrocks> sure, never had any QA issue/crashers on release and so on ;)
<seb128> they never merge any code change, best way to not create bugs!
<seb128> :)
<didrocks> roh
<willcooke> didrocks, logged: https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/issues/917
<gitbot> ubuntu issue 917 in yaru "Ticks in gdm do not show" [Open]
<didrocks> willcooke: perfect! let's see if someone from the yaru team picks it, I would otherwise (already looking at another theme issue)
<willcooke> thanks didrocks, btw check telegram
 * didrocks starts telegram
<tseliot> Wimpress, tjaalton: correct, we don't include short lived releases
<didrocks> duflu would be happy, just fixed bug #1789356 :)
<ubot5> bug 1789356 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Dark purple (noise) background flashes up briefly during the login animation" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1789356
<kenvandine> seb128 willcooke, on a fresh 18.10 install there is no ~/.cache/fontconfig created which of course results in a font cache miss when the snap starts
<kenvandine> not sure why we don't have that cache
<kenvandine> there is the system cache though
<seb128> why would we have an user cache? how would it be different from the system one on first boot?
<didrocks> this isn't new btw, there was no ~/.cache/fontconfig in 18.04 new user install as well (which makes sense)
<seb128> kenvandine, is the desktop wrapper relying on the user cache to be there?
<kenvandine> my 18.04 desktop and my 18.10 laptop both have ~/.cache/fontconfig
<kenvandine> no idea what created them
<seb128> that was not what I asked though :)
<kenvandine> my laptop was a clean install a couple weeks ago
<seb128> do you get the slowdown if you delete it?
<kenvandine> yes
<seb128> k
<kenvandine> that's what the fontconfig file we write looks for
<kenvandine> it's not looking in /var/ at all
<seb128> jbicha, I tried polari in cosmic and I can't get past the network selection screen, I never get an action on the top right
<kenvandine> seb128: on my 18.10 laptop, the ~/.cache/fontconfig directory was created on the same day as it was installed
<kenvandine> maybe something else triggers creating that
<kenvandine> seb128: if i run firefox one time it creates ~/.cache/fontconfig
<kenvandine> firefox from the deb, on the default install
<Laney> seb128: that is broken for me too btw
<jbicha> seb128: you can see a nice error if you run polari from the cmd line when you try that. looks like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/polari/issues/82
<jbicha> (I don't use polari)
<Laney> looks like https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/polari/issues/82
<Laney> yeh
<Laney> that one
<seb128> jbicha, right, I mentioned that earlier on #polari, same warning, didn't get a reply
<ricotz> oSoMoN, oohh nooo
<Laney> maybe none of the polari developers can get on #polari becuase their IRC client is broken :'(
<ricotz> oSoMoN, hi, please don't copy the nodejs packages to the security ppa
<oSoMoN> ricotz, is there a problem with those?
<ricotz> oSoMoN, or did you thought this throught somehow?
<ricotz> one should be able to use the security ppa ihmo, but with those packages this is not feasible anymore
<ricotz> especially openssl breaks things
<oSoMoN> ricotz, no, the security PPA is only meant as a staging platform before publishing to the archive's security pockets
<ricotz> if you don't want the mozillateam ppa being a build-dep of the security ppa then a new dedciated one is required
<oSoMoN> "Staging PPA for Mozilla and other browser-related security updates. Unless you are testing updates, you should not install packages from this PPA"
<ricotz> oSoMoN, tell the users which do that
<ricotz> and will get updates which are not maintained regularly
<ricotz> also nodejs 0.11.2 has a bunch of CVEs
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, what do you think? ricotz has a point, we might want to isolate this nodejs update in a dedicated PPA
<ricotz> so really an ppa a build-dep is a better option
<ricotz> a/as
<ricotz> oSoMoN, please disable the publishing to prevent more binaries
<ricotz> oSoMoN, *there is a reason for this kind of way with the mozillateam ppas*
<chrisccoulson> I've not followed the whole discussion, but anything that's a dependency of firefox needs to be in the security PPA for it to build
<chrisccoulson> if it can't go in the security PPA, the dependency needs to be dropped
<oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, nodejs 8.11 for trusty pulls in an openssl update
<oSoMoN> nodejs is a build dep only, not a runtime dep
<oSoMoN> (afaik)
<seb128> kenvandine, what creates the cache is not really important though, the question is rather to know why we require an user cache in the desktop wrapper, especially if the system cache is complete
<kenvandine> yeah
<kenvandine> i tried changing the cachedir to use the system cache and it never even tries to use it
<kenvandine> i should probably get DENIALS
<kenvandine> but i'm not
<seb128> kenvandine, also my test machine new install has .cache/fontconfig with 3 files in it and gnome-calculator still takes 35s to start if I delete ~/snap/gnome-calculator
<kenvandine> yeah, i think it's the content of that cache
<seb128> you mean?
<kenvandine> if i mv that dir out of the way on my laptop it's slow to start
<seb128> you mean .cache/fontconfig?
<kenvandine> if i create the cache manually, it's slow to start
<kenvandine> yes
<kenvandine> if i move my original cache back it's fast to start
<seb128> ah
<seb128> so no cache -> slow
<seb128> default cache -> slow
<kenvandine> so my cache that was created on oct 4th seems good
<seb128> your magical cache -> not slow :p
<kenvandine> it's also not slow on my VM i used for iso testing right before holiday
<seb128> weird
<kenvandine> well, oct 2nd
<kenvandine> but it is slow on a clean install today
<seb128> well on today's iso install it's slow every time I delete ~/snap/gnome-calculator
<kenvandine> yeah, i've reproduced that
<seb128> so it gives a sane base state to debug/investigate
<kenvandine> i'm not sure how to debug the contents of that cache though
<seb128> kenvandine, fontconfig new version has fixes for relocate cache issues, unsure if that impacts us though
<kenvandine> seb128: 2.13 right?
<seb128> 2.13.1
<kenvandine> ah
<kenvandine> let me look at that
<seb128> kenvandine, https://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/commit/?id=844d8709
<seb128> e.g https://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/commit/?id=c42402d0b
<seb128> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/commit/?id=f098adac
<seb128> kenvandine, https://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/commit/?id=7b48fd3d is about the filename
<kenvandine> still a mystery. willcooke  has checksum style file names in ~/.cache/fontconfig and i have uuid style file names in ~/.cache/fontconfig on our freshly installed VMs
<kenvandine> my snaps are looking for files with the checksum style and failing
<kenvandine> still feels like libfontconfig in the snap doesn't like the cache on the host
<willcooke> kenvandine, I might be confusing myself now
<willcooke> because suddenly I cant find the ones without the dashes
<willcooke> I didnt imagine it
<willcooke> but I cant proveit
<kenvandine> the snaps have fontconfig 2.12.6-0ubuntu1
<kenvandine> willcooke: lol... long day :)
<kenvandine> the version built in the backports PPA is from prior to the nano second patch in bionic
<kenvandine> maybe i should add that patch to the backports
<willcooke> worth a try
<popey> kenvandine: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/9p132i/aur_package_for_snapcraftio_in_gnomesoftware/
<popey> :)
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-18
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<didrocks> hey duflu
<acheronuk> is there any .xcf or s.vg of the cuttelefish mascot available, or can be made available?
<acheronuk> your ubiquity slideshow usually ships in images-source/ the .xcf of your background with logo, but even that is missing
 * duflu searches
<didrocks> acheronuk: maybe ask willcooke once around?
<didrocks> he's supposed to be in London this week, close to the design team anyway :)
<acheronuk> didrocks: thanks. sounds a plan. have even checked git/bzr but no luck
<acheronuk> would be nice to be able to do a flavour release banner of a decent quality with the mascot
<duflu> I can only find jpegs... https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+sourcefiles/ubuntu-wallpapers/18.10.2-0ubuntu1/ubuntu-wallpapers_18.10.2.orig.tar.gz
<acheronuk> ditto
<willcooke> morning
<willcooke> jamesh, hihi!  Any joy on the font cache thing?
<duflu> Hi willcooke
<willcooke> afternoon duflu, how goes?
<duflu> willcooke, on a conference call ;)
<willcooke> :)
<duflu> But good. You, willcooke?
<willcooke> so far so good
<didrocks> hey willcooke
<jamesh> willcooke: still testing with the daily image.  The move to uuid based cache file naming triggers the same problems as cache file version changes previously
<jamesh> willcooke: i.e. upgrading the libfontconfig used in confinement could get it to work fine with cosmic but might just move the problem to bionic
<willcooke> jamesh, ah yeah
<jamesh> one band-aid solution would be to SRU new fontconfig into the LTS releases, but that's obviously going to have some push back
<jamesh> and doesn't help if fontconfig changes it's cache again
<willcooke> yeah, sounds like a very temporary solution
<willcooke> Bionic is still working "good" though right
<willcooke> ?
<jamesh> yes.
<willcooke> cool
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128
<clobrano> good morning all 0/
<seb128> lut didrocks
<seb128> hey clobrano
<seb128> how is everyone today?
<clobrano> hey seb128 :)
<didrocks> releasing-mood :)
<didrocks> hey clobrano
<didrocks> Happy release day !
<clobrano> yuhuu, release day :)
<acheronuk> didrocks: svg obtained. thanks to you (and Alan Pope on telegram) for suggesting to ask Will
<didrocks> great! :)
<Laney> acheronuk: could you do a merge proposal for the slideshow so that it's in there for the next upload please?
<Laney> also hi
<Laney> s/slideshow/wallpapers/?
<Laney> wherever it lives
<acheronuk> Laney: Will gave me a +junk link to welcome-18.10.xcf for the slideshow, so maybe better for him to do that? For that larger svg, I'm not even sure if that is meant to be anywhere. In past releases I either got one from a bug report where mascot images were attached, or from a ubuntu web page that had the incorporated a svg just after release
 * Laney shrugs
<Laney> thought you'd be well placed as you are thinking about it right now, but ok
<acheronuk> Laney: I could, but am updating release notes, upgrade instructions, etc today with limited time. If there is no MP there in a day or 2 I will gladly do it
<Trevinho> Hola!
<Laney> moin Trevinho
<Trevinho> All ready to shock the world?
<seb128> hey Trevinho
<Trevinho> seb128: hi seb
<willcooke> duflu, how can I tell if a machine is using synaptics?
<duflu> willcooke, I think xinput will show it
<willcooke> duflu, tx
<duflu> Otherwise, assume yes if using Xorg AND synaptics is installed
<duflu> willcooke, correction:  xinput list-props <touchpaddevnum>  will mention "libinput" if present, IIRC
<duflu> If you and using Wayland then the answer is no. You will only find xwayland devices there
<duflu> If you are*
<seb128> grrr
<seb128> on a french install, go to g-c-c region, add an english (us) input source
<seb128> select it in the shell UI
<seb128> style typing in azerty with "en" selected
<seb128> it did it on my test machine yesterday, same today on a that new instal
<didrocks> unnice
<Laney> ze french conspiracy
<seb128> I've a systemd-localed error in the journal, "systemd-vconsole-setup.service not found"
<seb128> "failed to convert keymap data: No such file or directory"
<seb128> bah, the systemd warnings are redherring
<seb128> doing sudo apt install gnome-shell from cosmic on a bionic is enough to make the keyboard switch stop working
<didrocks> :(
<popey> getting reports that steam controllers don't work on 18.10, and the 'fix' is to blacklist the 'new' hid_steam kernel module :S
<popey> (asked for a bug report)
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1798583
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1798583 in linux (Ubuntu) "the new Steam Controller driver breaks it on Steam" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> Trevinho, bug #1745888 unsure why you said it has to do with snaps, I can reproduce with tapping on the nautilus icon in the launcher on the default cosmic install
<ubot5> bug 1745888 in OEM Priority Project "Two instances of a program launch whenever you touch a favorites icon" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1745888
<seb128> popey, it might be a topic for the kernel team?
<popey> Yeah, I'll poke them, but figured given steam is a desktoppy thing and our love for Valve, you might be interested :D
<seb128> we are interested to see it fixed, we don't own the kernel/have much of a say in what they aredoing though
<popey> Sho thang.
<Trevinho> seb128: ah, on touch only yes... I meant that also with snaps I had that issue, even with normal interaction
<seb128> Trevinho, that sounds like a different bug, that one is about touch screens :)
<Trevinho> yep, right... from a first look I though it was same but indeed no
<seb128> popey, did you mention that bug on -kernel?
<popey> yup
<popey> just before you arrived :)
<popey> the bug author also found a patch on lkml which I asked them to add to the bug
<seb128> right, just saw that
<seb128> willcooke, ^ do you know how to get an item on the kernel team backlog? they just auto comment with a stock reply without even reading the bugs, unsure it's going to get anywhere using the standard process
<seb128> willcooke, popey, I think we can at least keep an eye on the status of the patch upstream and once it's merge go back to our kernel team asking to pull in the patch for their next update
<popey> Sounds reasonable, thanks seb128
<seb128> np
<Yiguang> :)
<popey> Liam (reporter) has updated his article, linking to the bug report. So others affected will at least be able to track progress and 'me too' it.
<willcooke> popey, I've added it to my list of things to talk to the kernel team about next week
<popey> kk
<andyrock> seb128: so fedora is also affected by the keyboard layout issues
<andyrock> I know where the issue is
<seb128> andyrock, oh, nice! you should enjoy the evening and celebrate cosmic, that can wait tomorrow :)
<seb128> andyrock, did you tell garnacho?
<andyrock> seb128: yep! waiting for an answer to the proposed fix. I'll send the MP anyway tomorrow
<seb128> andyrock, great :) and stop looking at the computer now :p
<seb128> kenvandine, I see that you updated fontconfig in the backport ppa yesterday, it was not on 2.13 yet?
<kenvandine> no, it was 2.12.  same as was in bionic
<kenvandine> that fixed the startup issue on cosmic
<kenvandine> without regressing bionic
<kenvandine> seb128: back home now?
<seb128> k, I though it might the case, which is why I checked the ppa and saw you updated recently
<seb128> yes!
<kenvandine> great
<seb128> it doesn't explain why it was working on some snaps for you in cosmic or why you couldn't reproduce the issue
<seb128> still feels like something weird is going on there
<kenvandine> well, i must have had a non-uuid cache
<kenvandine> if the font didn't have the .uuid file in the directory it would create a checksum based cache file
<kenvandine> which the older fontconfig knew about
<kenvandine> but it couldn't handle the uuid style
<seb128> k, I see
<seb128> well, good that it got sorted out :)
<kenvandine> my laptop had a font cache with the checksum style files
<seb128> did you rebuild all the snaps with the new fontconfig now?
<kenvandine> just needed the platform snap
<kenvandine> done now
<seb128> ah, right
<kenvandine> at least for the seeded snaps
<kenvandine> other snaps using the backports PPA but not the platform could benefit
<seb128> right
<seb128> k, good to know that one is resolved :)
<seb128> on that note calling it a day, have a nice evening desktopers!
<kenvandine> good night!
<seb128> thx
<seb128> oh, and congrats on cosmic desktopers :)
<seb128> see you tomorrow
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-19
<didrocks> good morning!
<seb128> good morning desktopers
<didrocks> salut seb128!
<seb128> lut didrocks, happy post-cosmic-day1 :)
<didrocks> seb128: heh, happy unknown-d-name-day1 ;)
 * didrocks never tried the Shell "zoom" optionâ¦ Not really friendly
<didrocks> (in particular with Shell menu)
<didrocks> but at least, not due to Yaru, same with upstream theme
<didrocks> (was afraid that theming will again be blamed for breaking features :p)
<seb128> we do testing late, we find the bugs the day of release of the day after :/
<didrocks> well, in that case, we find the bug 1.5 year after switching
<didrocks> we can't test all upstream software, those kind of things should really be automatically tested
<didrocks> or if we want to test manually, for each upload, all upstream software, we have an army of QA engineers doing that full time. Not sure it's realistic though
<didrocks> (and as we have nobody specialized in a11y, I guess this is why this whole area isn't even dogfooded)
<seb128> right
<didrocks> I'm ok though on the gdm "no tick showing" bug, this is annoying we couldn't get that automatically tested
<didrocks> (which is our fault, indirectly)
<didrocks> but we'll get it fixed, even if gjs doesn't make that as easyâ¦
<seb128> changing location, brb
<pitti> bonjour tout le monde!
<pitti> congratulations to 18.04! ð¯
<pitti> err, 18.10 of course
<didrocks> haha, merci pitti !
 * didrocks keeps typing 17.10, so not better :p
<clobrano> hi all 0/
<clobrano> installed 18.10 this morning, it's awesome :)
<didrocks> clobrano: it is for a large part thanks to you!
<clobrano> didrocks: :)
<clobrano> didrocks: only the skin
<didrocks> it's what people spot at first!
<clobrano> :D, yeah, but this version is really fast as well
<clobrano> which is second thing people notice
<clobrano> and my notebook has 4GB of ram, which is something to take into account
<didrocks> yeah! Killing gnome-shell under gdm when login screen isn't in use is making a huge difference
<didrocks> (an upstream change btw)
<willcooke> morning cuttlefish
<seb128> hey willcooke, did you recover a bit from the past crazy days?
<willcooke> hi seb128, stayed in bed until 930 this morning, feel much better for it :)
<willcooke> How about you?
<didrocks> hey willcooke!
<seb128> I'm good, was back at 7pm yesterday and I had a good night
<willcooke> morning didrocks!  Congratulations to you and the Yaru team.  Amazing work!
<didrocks> willcooke: congrats for the release! :)
<willcooke> \o/
 * didrocks passed appreciations on the Yaru team in https://community.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-participation-an-ubuntu-default-theme-lead-by-the-community/1545/1869
<willcooke> seb128, I'm updating the 18.10 blog post a little bit this morning, would you re-read it for me in a little while?  I'll highlight the new bits
<seb128> willcooke, yeah, I'm going to extend a bit the lunch break today, shifting hours a bit to profit of the nice&sunny weather but I've a look when I'm back
<seb128> willcooke, I can do a first read now/before going though if you have bits ready already
<willcooke> seb128, oki thx
<willcooke> there is one bit I'd like checking
<willcooke> highlight in green
<willcooke> *two bits
<seb128> oki doki
<clobrano> didrocks: if the dock appears in the login screen, it's more a gdm issue or dock one? :D
<andyrock> clobrano: login screen or lock screen?
<clobrano> andyrock: sorry, lock screen
<andyrock> mmm that could mean that gnome-shell failed to disable the extensions
<clobrano> andyrock: I believe it was stuck in "hide" mode. It didn't disappear when windows get maximized
<clobrano> andyrock: possible, I had to restart gnome-shell to fix it
<andyrock> clobrano: it could be both, gnome-shell fails to disable dash-to-dock
<andyrock> or dash-to-dock that fails to disable itself
<andyrock> but better waiting for didrocks to answer
<clobrano> ok
<andyrock> maybe there is something in the logs
<tomreyn> hi! on the very bottom of https://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/statistics under "The Ubuntu Report tool" it says "The full list of collected data points is viewable on GitHub [..]". Where is this data available?
<willcooke> tomreyn, https://github.com/ubuntu/ubuntu-report
<tomreyn> thanks will, so this refers to the type of data collected (i.e. the example), not the actual results?
<tomreyn> or am i missing the actual data there?
<tomreyn> i probably just misinterpreted the statement.
<willcooke> tomreyn, you want to see your data, right?  Run "ubuntu-report show" from the command line and it'll print it
<tomreyn> i'd love to see all the data that was collected, form all users, anonymized.
<willcooke> Ah, I see
<willcooke> yeah, we're not offering that at the moment.
<tomreyn> alright, thanks for explaining.
<didrocks> clobrano: yeah, I think g-s/gdm issue
<didrocks> (gnome shell)
<clobrano> didrocks: thanks, I'll take more info if I can reproduce it
<didrocks> sure!
<willcooke> night all, have a good weekend
<willcooke> In SLC next week, back the week after
<seb128> have a nice w.e desktopers!
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-20
<infinity> Ahh, the best part about sending release announcements is all the useful constructive criticism I get in return:
<infinity> "Dear Adam, I am sorry to disturbing you, but i have a problem with
<infinity> Gnome, which is as peace of junk and it ruis 18.04 for a long time."
<sarnold> I've always said it ruis 18.04 for long time
<sarnold> infinity: it's easy to see why so many companies turn to faceless noreply@ addresses :(
<infinity> sarnold: I actually get a lot of nice messages too.
<sarnold> oh nice :)
<infinity> sarnold: There's this 77 year old user who responds to every second or third release announcement with kind words thanking us.
<sarnold> aww <3
<tomreyn> after a minimal installation of 18.10 with the 'install updates during installation' option left enabled, you end up with this: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/k3w6npyNrN/
<tomreyn> i had assumed it would apt --purge autoremove and install all pending updates.
<tomreyn> is this expected or should i file a bug?
<jbicha> tomreyn: please file a bug
<jbicha> We can't fix that issue for 18.10 without creating new iso's which we won't be doing, but we can change our test procedures so that the 19.04 release doesn't have that problem
<tomreyn> jbicha: can i quote you on this? i expect this bug will otherwise just remain open until 18.10 goes EOL and then get archived / closed.
<tomreyn> also, which package would i file against?
<tomreyn> ubiquity?
<jbicha> tomreyn: could you file against https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests?
<jbicha> that's the project that controls what is set in the test case descriptions like in http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/397/builds/182644/testcases
<tomreyn> sure, thanks.
<tomreyn> this is bug 1798992
<ubot5> bug 1798992 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Fresh desktop installation has packages pending autoremoval, pending updates" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1798992
<jbicha> great, thank you
#ubuntu-desktop 2018-10-21
<basalt> hi, after upgrade, the shell on top left display no blue line on the sound and screen brightness sliders
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-10-14
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> hi all
<didrocks> salut jibel
<jibel> Salut didrocks, Ã§a va?
<didrocks> et toi jibel ?
<jibel> pluvieusement
<jibel> didrocks, maybe I found a solution for the "failed to mount / device not ready issue"
<jibel> didrocks, I'm testing it right now
<didrocks> sweet!
<jibel> didrocks, using partx instead of partprobe seems to do the rtick
<jibel> rtick
<jibel> ...
<pieq> didrocks, jibel bonjour ! Since you are the zfs on Ubuntu experts now ;), I have a stupid question; I read this over the weekend: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/10/a-detailed-look-at-ubuntus-new-experimental-zfs-installer/ and I don't quite get it. If you have ZFS installed, you cannot really know how much free space you have now, do you? Since as soon as you take a snapshot, every deletion/modification of a file results in
<pieq> more space used...
<jibel> trick
<duflu> Morning didrocks and jibel
<didrocks> hey duflu
<didrocks> salut pieq: you can use zfs status. We need to look more at df, if it reports the correct value or not
<pieq> didrocks, ok so there will be a lot of work to adapt the usual tools (like disks, baobab etc.) to be used easily if zfs is activated
<jibel> or zfs list -o space
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<Trevinho> good morning!
<duflu> Morning Trevinho. Thanks for the dock fix(es)!
<oSoMoN> good morning Trevinho
<Trevinho> hey oSoMoN and duflu, and np
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<oSoMoN> morning Wimpress
<Wimpress> Trevinho: You arrived OK then?
<Trevinho> Wimpress: yeah, thanks. All foost
<Trevinho> good*
<didrocks> hey oSoMoN, Trevinho, Wimpress
<Trevinho> damned keyboard... Although now stock waiting for the replacement bus ð¡
<Wimpress> o/
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<duflu> Morning Wimpress
<Laney> hullo
<didrocks> hey Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks
<Laney> good weekend?
<didrocks> not really. You?
<Laney> what :(
<Laney> mine was nice yes :(
<didrocks> travelled to London?
<Laney> did but for something else, not the release sprint, i'm at home today
<didrocks> ah ok
<oSoMoN> hey Laney
<Laney> yo oSoMoN
<duflu> Hi Laney and willcooke
<willcooke> afternoon duflu, morning all
<Laney> greetings duflu
<marcustomlinson> morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning willcooke, marcustomlinson
<seb128> goood morning desktopers, did you have a good w.e?
<didrocks> salut seb128, et toi ?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: recovering from a cold :/ and didn't have time to relax, too much to do. so yeah, bit bleh... yourself? :)
<seb128> didrocks, oui, plutÃ´t bon
<seb128> marcustomlinson, busy but good, I feel like we had good time and got some things done also, but didn't rest much as a consequence
<seb128> oh well, busy is good too :)
<marcustomlinson> true, no time to be sick ;P
<seb128> I'm in the tram to join Trevinho to the gnome-shell hackfest, I might not be on IRC at time but emails work or just wait for me to be back online if you need me :)
<seb128> haha
<oSoMoN> salut seb128. very good week-end here, my mother paid us a visit, we enjoyed really good family time
<seb128> I feel like I've been sick non stop since we have the kid, not much atm though which is good
<seb128> oSoMoN, ah, nice!
<willcooke> *cough* *cough*
 * willcooke has a cold too
<seb128> hey willcooke, get better!
<marcustomlinson> that time of the year :/ yeah get better soon willcooke
<duflu> Morning seb128
<Wimpress> seb128 Trevinho have a good hackfest ð
<Trevinho> Wimpress: we'll have, although seb si as always LAAAaate, not like the always-on-time-italian!
<duflu> I can't tell if you're joking
 * duflu assumes so
 * Laney peers at glib2.0
<seb128> hey duflu, Wimpress
<seb128> Wimpress, thanks!
<seb128> duflu, he's trolling me because he was there first today ;-)
<Laney> moin seb128
<seb128> hey Laney, how are you? had you a good w.e ? are you in London yet ?
<duflu> seb128, Pi booted :) Curiously username/password ubuntu/ubuntu and ubuntu/blank do not work
<seb128> empty password?
<duflu> Tried that
<seb128> ah you tries :/
<seb128> tried
 * duflu edits the image directly
<Laney> was good thanks! nice beer fest :>
<Laney> i'm going down to the office tomorrow
<willcooke> Anyone have any view on:
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/example-content/+bug/1826040
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1826040 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "examples.desktop file is not executable and only opens into default text editor(gedit)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<willcooke> Should we just remove the examples.desktop file?
<willcooke> from new installs
<willcooke> or leave it as is for now
<Laney> removing it sounds good
 * willcooke looks at example-content
<willcooke> maybe it's just time to drop the example-content package from the seeds
<seb128> it's useful to have some multimedia content on the iso sometime to test e.g totem
<willcooke> fair point
<Laney> is testing a good enough reason to have it installed for everyone though?
<seb128> I didn't speak about installed :)
<seb128> also I don't know who worked on the content and how much we/they still care about it
<Laney> I'm talking about the live image too
<Laney> there might be other reasons, but that one isn't good enough imho
<willcooke> There's a video from mardy and some music. < 13MB in total.  Not updated since, erm, maybe 2014
<seb128> I've no strong opinion, it's somewhat a nice personal touch but probably most people don't care at the same time
<seb128> willcooke, we can replace the .desktop by a standard ln -s if we still care about making the content visible, but removing wfm
<willcooke> The only thing in the install file is that .desktop file.  I'm unsure how to make it a symlink.  I'm in too deep
 * willcooke should have kept his mouth shut 
<seb128> willcooke, just drop it if you think you content is outdated
<seb128> it's probably not great
<willcooke> I looked at the change log and it got updated 2018 by nhaines
<seb128> and people who install probably don't care much about the 'side' goodies and just want to install
<willcooke> it's not super out of date, but equally, meh
<seb128> right, as said I don't have a strong opinion
<seb128> those content like the extra wallpapers give a small bit of 'personnal' touch/make the iso a bit more than only an installer/functional system imho
<seb128> but I'm unsure many users care/are sensitive to that
<seb128> so maybe it's a whatever
<jibel> are the minimum requirements to install Ubuntu Desktop documented somewhere?
<jibel> I found https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements but I am not sure this is the reference
<jibel> minimum memory should probably be raised to 4GB, otherwise OOM killer is triggered frequently
<seb128> jibel, https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/please-raise-hardware-recommendations/9814 discuss the topic and list some pages which have refeences to requirements
<jibel> Thanks I didn't see this topic
<seb128> jibel, https://github.com/canonical-web-and-design/ubuntu.com/issues/5246#event-2388672446 bumped it this cycle
<seb128> the wiki should probably be edited, it was also pointed out in a comment
<jibel> ah so it's just the wiki that is out of sync
<jibel> cannot log in
<willcooke> jibel, to the wiki thing?
<willcooke> docs site
<jibel> willcooke, the wiki
<willcooke> jibel, I'm in
<willcooke> stand by
<jibel> willcooke, this page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements
<jibel> just make sure it says de same thing than the dl page for desktop
<willcooke> jibel, done
<jibel> there is only the RAM that differs apparently
<jibel> willcooke, thanks for your contributions :)
<didrocks> (â¦and helping to make ubuntu better blablabla ;))
 * willcooke pats himself on the head
<Laney> I like that we get that for every upload
<Laney> "Thank you for your contribution to Ubuntu."
<Laney> you're welcome, Launchpad
<popey> Anyone got a clean 19.10 nvidia system handy? Seems installing steam from the archive results in missing libnvidia-gl-435:i386, so steam won't launch.
<popey> bug 1848001
<ubot5> bug 1848001 in Ubuntu MATE "libnvidia-gl-435:i386 not installed from Ubiquity checkbox in 19.10 beta" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848001
<jibel> popey, I do, what do you want to verify
<jibel> ?
<popey> If you have ticked the "give me non-free stuff" in ubiquity, and post-install you "sudo apt install steam && steam" does steam launch?
<popey> For the bug reporter, he noted the 64-bit nvidia driver is installed when that box is ticked, but post-install, the steam app doesn't work because the 32-bit nvidia binary isn't available.
<jibel> popey, the installer doesn't install 32bit binaries
<popey> Is this a regression? Did this work in 19.04 and now doesn't?
<jibel> no
<popey> Users have always had to install some 32-bit nvidia library?
<jibel> I think so
<popey> skeptical face engaged.
<jibel> to be confirmed by someone who knows steam
<popey> gonna rip the driver out of my gaming system and try that
<popey> thanks
<jibel> tseliot, ^ did we install 32bit binaries on 64bit installation in the past?
<jibel> when installing 3rd party drivers from the installer
<RikMills> steam-installer recommends nvidia-driver-libs-i386
<jibel> yeah, but it is not installed by ubuntu-drivers when you request to install nvidia drivers
<RikMills> this was discussed somewhere in the backlog. our steam package is old and needs a merge, and debian doesn't match our driver libs/meta/something
<RikMills> or such was the jist of what I read
<popey> bug 1848009 is fun :)
<ubot5> bug 1848009 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Delay launching application launcher gets longer the more apps are open" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848009
<didrocks> this reminds me of Unity Startup Edition
<didrocks> the "you can open an application 3 times only"
<popey> :D
<tseliot> jibel, the nvidia-driver-$flavour metapackage recommends the i386 packages
<tseliot> also, I assume some of the games to be 32 bit only, so you would need 32 bit driver libraries too
<tseliot> also, nvidia-driver-libs-i386 doesn't exist in Ubuntu. It sounds like something that is available in Debian
<popey> It's not the games initially being reported in the bug, it's steam itself.
<tseliot> maybe it's really a 32 bit app? I haven't really looked into that
<popey> it
<popey> *it is
<popey>  /home/alan/.steam/ubuntu12_32/steam: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.24, BuildID[sha1]=5cc05963be376b1bb3e6a531797a08036e7e4a3b, not stripped
<popey>  
<tseliot> yes, then it definitely needs 32 bit driver libraries
<sil2100> Hey! Did anyone have a chance to look at LP: #1847896 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1847896 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Unable to shutdown or restart from log-in screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847896
<Laney> Nope
<sil2100> Adam was able to reproduce it on his system
<popey> Yup, me too
<popey> Multiple times
<Laney> Good
<Laney> That means that it'll be easier for someone to look into when that time comes :>
<sil2100> It feels SRUable indeed
<Laney> nod
<Laney> rls tagging sounds good for that one
<Laney> which is done, good
<seb128> sil2100, could someone having the issue add their journalctl to the bug?
<Laney> didn't think it was necessary to ask for that since everybody can reproduce at will
<Laney> but sure :-)
<seb128> sil2100, does it happen with an user logged in, or after logging out from the user session first?
<popey> it does happen after logging out, yes
<popey> and it does happen if you go to the "login as another user" screen when a user is still logged in
<sil2100> seb128: it happens in both cases from what I know, both when there are users logged in and when there's no user
<seb128> Laney, it was not clear from the IRC description that it would always happen, 'able to reproduce multiple times" was worded in a way that suggested it was not always (and I don't want to restart/shutdown my machine now so didn't test for that reason)
<Laney> ok
<seb128> Laney, also I wish people would file bugs with details/log as a general rule rather than just IRC ping, but that's probably another discussion
<seb128> Laney, anyway I stop there, I'm slightly annoyed that you told me off for asking for a log, maybe you did not but I feel like that way atm
<seb128> sorry for the noise, going back to other things on that note
<Laney> well thanks for telling me
<seb128> should probably have mentioned that bit in /query
<seb128> sorry for not thinking about it before hitting enter
<Laney> no worries
<Laney> sorry it came across like that
<Laney> I'm generally trying to keep the channel from getting distracted by bug link pastes if that helps to explain my motivations
<Laney> not saying that's what was happening there necessarily btw
<Laney> just it can explain why I might say some things ... :-)
<seb128> right
<seb128> anyway, log has a endSessionDialog no XDG_SESSION_ID fetched from logind warning
<seb128> and a shutdown failing "interactive auth required"
<willcooke> ha, I was just pasting that in to the bug
<seb128> systemd session work side effect?
<Laney> we are discussing it now then? ;-)
<seb128> anyway it's rls tagged so we will get to it
<Laney> could be
<seb128> lol
<willcooke> I've pasted the relevant bits to the bug (I think)
<seb128> well, I just wanted to bugs report to have proper info so they are useful when we decide to have a look, which is why I complained about the lack of journal/log; we have that now :)
<seb128> willcooke, thx
<seb128> hum, glib symbols seem to not work under valgrind for real, got them missing in an e-d-s error now :/
<Laney> just valgrind some glib thing?
<Laney> to reproduce
<Laney> --32419-- WARNING: Serious error when reading debug info
<Laney> --32419-- When reading debug info from /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgmodule-2.0.so.0.6200.1:
<Laney> --32419--    debuginfo section duplicates a section in the main ELF file
<Laney> ð³
<clobrano> Trevinho, hey! I opened a new PR for https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/issues/1526
<clobrano> Trevinho, for SRU, current master is some commits ahead of latest release, is that a problem?
<seb128> Laney, right, I mentioned those warnings at doko the other day but I think they might be red herring, it gives similar warnings for other binaries but those have working debug symbols (I think, checking again)
<Laney> the symbols work as far as gdb is concerned
<Laney> afaics
<seb128> right, which would indicate a problem on the valgrind side?
<Laney> dunno :(
<Laney> downgrading that to disco's version doesn't fix the warnings anyway
<seb128> valgrind from disco has the same problem
<seb128> could be due to some libc change or something :/
<Laney> seb128: I rebuilt it skipping dh_dwz and the warning is gone
<Laney> wait
<Laney> no I passed nostrip (that fixes it too, unsurprisingly)
<Laney> let me try again
<Laney> ok now confirmed that for realz
<seb128> Laney, it fixes the warning but does it make the symbols work?
<Laney> I get things like
<Laney> ==9058== 184 bytes in 1 blocks are possibly lost in loss record 227 of 236
<Laney> ==9058==    at 0x483CFAF: realloc (in /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/valgrind/vgpreload_memcheck-amd64-linux.so)
<Laney> ==9058==    by 0x4ABC58F: g_realloc (gmem.c:164)
<Laney> damn it you infected my brain with that gdm thing
<Laney> bet you all 10â¬ (each) that it's fixed by https://github.com/systemd/systemd/commit/a2dcb1d78737d3daa301ee63fbdd02837acb71a8
<seb128> Laney, it also made me look at gnome-session open issue and make me want https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-session/merge_requests/28 but that's proably fine for a SRU (slower shutdown)
<seb128> I need to chase Trevinho also into backporting a few g-s stack fixes
<seb128> at least the one for the night mode/color profile not working
<Laney> on wayland?
<seb128> Jonas fixed that after .1
<Laney> I'm going to review that gnome-session stuff, you don't need to worry about that
<seb128> k, thx
<seb128> yeah, the color stuff is wayland only, probably good for a first SRU
<seb128> or we wait for .2
<Laney> yes
<Laney> waiting is totally fine
<willcooke> night all.  London tomorrow
<Laney> rbalint: could you add a2dcb1d78737d3daa301ee63fbdd02837acb71a8 into the next systemd upload pls for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1847896 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1847896 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Unable to shutdown or restart from log-in screen" [High,Confirmed]
<rbalint> Laney, sure, but i have to note that i planned updating systemd only after release
<rbalint> Laney, it is quite annoying bug although
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-10-15
<didrocks> good morning
<jibel> Salut didrocks
<jibel> hi all
<didrocks> salut jibel
<duflu> Salut didrocks, jibel
<didrocks> hey duflu
<seb128> goood morning desktopers
<duflu> Morning seb128
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you?
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<duflu> seb128, sore... I think I need to change pillows, but otherwise good. You?
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme aujourd'hui ?
<oSoMoN> seb128, Ã§a va, et toi?
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<seb128> duflu, I'm good, gnome hackfest day 1 was fun, I didn't come back too late which was smart since I had a proper night and feel good today :)
<seb128> oSoMoN, Ã§a va !
<didrocks> salut seb128, oSoMoN
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<didrocks> seb128: on fait aller, et toi ? :)
<seb128> Ã§a va bien !
<didrocks> cool que la hackfest se passe bien
<seb128> is the zfs/19.10 situation stabilizing or still new day, new reports/tweaks to do?
<seb128> oui :)
<didrocks> seb128: new things, but I think labelled under the "experimental" feedback we have, like swap zvol being slow
<didrocks> which is exactly what we wanted to discover
<didrocks> nothing critical for the release yet
<seb128> great
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<jibel> actually there's been a low number of bugs. missing zfs utils in initramfs, readyness of the partition table and the perf of the swap on zvol
<marcustomlinson> good morning didrocks jibel duflu seb128 oSoMoN
<didrocks> hey marcustomlinson
<seb128> lut jibel, hey marcustomlinson, ca va/how are you today?
<marcustomlinson> seb128: good thanks, just now getting over this cold thing. you?
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> marcustomlinson, I'm good, thanks :)
<didrocks> seb128: guess what's broken before release?
<didrocks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1848141
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1848141 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No screen reader started with ctrl+alt+s nor in maybe-ubiquity or live session" [Undecided,New]
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<seb128> didrocks, if it's buggy in the live session then it's probably the reader itself because ubiquity isn't handling it there right?
<seb128> or gnome-shell
<didrocks> seb128: only the shortcut is broken
<didrocks> I appended my task from isolinux
<jibel> Salut seb128, Ã§a va bien, release week is always exciting
<jibel> hi marcustomlinson
<didrocks> test*
<seb128> jibel, indeed! you are going to London/there already?
<didrocks> so yeah, only the shortcut/activation is broken, as mostly every cycles :p
<jibel> no staying home for this release, I'll go for next prolly
<seb128> keeping the energy for the LTS :)
<seb128> didrocks, looking in the keybindings part from settings, the combo is alt-super-S and it works (at least on the live session)
<didrocks> ah, we need to update the testcase, wasn't it used to be ctrl+alt+s forever?
<seb128> I wonder if the default changed in GNOME
<seb128> I would need to test on bionic/disco to be sure, I never remember that kind of things :/
<didrocks> confirming that alt+super+S works
<didrocks> yeah, sameâ¦
<didrocks> if different, it should be release noted at least
<seb128> ubiquity/frontend/gtk_ui.py has
<seb128>             elif (sr_profile_found is True and event.state &
<seb128>                   Gdk.ModifierType.SUPER_MASK and
<seb128>                     event.state & Gdk.ModifierType.MOD1_MASK and
<seb128>                     event.keyval == Gdk.keyval_from_name('s')):
<seb128>                 self.a11y_profile_screen_reader_activate()
<seb128> so it seems ubiquity has the same combo in its code
<seb128> so I guess it's wanted, unsure when it changed though
<seb128> git blame has a change from Luke in 2016 and it was already super
<didrocks> yeah, just saw that
<seb128> so I guess it's not new, just our memory/documentation fail :)
<didrocks> looks like nobody updated the test case :p
<didrocks> yeah
<didrocks> "good" I think ;)
<seb128> thx for testing that part btw
<didrocks> no pb
<didrocks> I'll delete the bug, just targetting one for doc
<seb128> yeah, I'm surprised it works, as you said usually it's buggy every cycle :p
<seb128> k
<didrocks> indeed, let's look at the positive side, for once, it works :)
<jibel> latest iso works surprisingly well for a tuesday on release week
<didrocks> "something must be wrong"
<jibel> yeah, we didn't test hard enough
<jibel> ah, I've a crash of shim-singed
<jibel> signed*
<didrocks> ah, still a screen reader-related issue
<didrocks> started on GDM after reboot
<didrocks> not on user session
<didrocks> (I still mark it as passed, but attached the bug and maybe worth some digging)
<Wimpress> Morning o/
<duflu> Morning Wimpress
<didrocks> hey Wimpress
<Wimpress> ZFS confirmed working in current RC by the Ubuntu MATE QA team last night ð
<didrocks> yeah, saw that on the bug report, great
<jibel> Wimpress, thanks
<Wimpress> Nvidia is broken however.
<Wimpress> I'm in Bluefin today and will run through a series of tests to figure out what is going on.
<jibel> Wimpress really, I just tested it
<jibel> Wimpress, what is broken?
<duflu> ?
<Wimpress> i386 nvidia drivers are not automatically installed.
<Wimpress> So, installing Steam results in broken Steam.
<Wimpress> Might only affect Ubuntu MATE, the reports are not clear.
<duflu> It's still possible to get to eoan i386 via upgrades
<duflu> With GNOME
<Wimpress> So I am going to test Xubuntu, Ubuntu and Ubuntu 19.10 to see where it works/fails.
<Wimpress> Yes, the i386 drivers still exist. But in past releases they were automatically installed.
<jibel> 32bit drivers are not installed with 64bit which is different from the alarming comment nvidia is broken
<jibel> Wimpress, when you say past does it include disco?
<jibel> I've an iso there I can verify
<seb128> wasn't that problem discussed here yesterday already?
<Laney> greetings
<didrocks> hey londoner Laney
<Laney> bloody london
<Laney> already almost walked into someone
<duflu> It's a skill acquired by living in London or any big city
<duflu> I assume
<duflu> Morning Laney
<oSoMoN> hi Laney
<Laney> hey didrocks duflu oSoMoN
<xnox> Laney: hello
<Laney> hi
<clobrano_> good morning everyone 0/
<didrocks> hey clobrano_
<clobrano_> hey didrocks, how are you?
<seb128> hey Laney, good luck with the city and its people ;-)
<didrocks> and you clobrano_? :)
<seb128> hey clobrano_
<clobrano_> I think I got a cold, but fine overall :)
<clobrano_> hey seb128
<Laney> hey seb128
<Laney> hackfest good today?
<seb128> I'll tell you in a bit, I had an appointement at 11:30 so I'm only going now (in the tram at the moment)
<Laney> ah
<Laney> so following up from yesterday, going to drop example-content if we respin (not otherwise, will be for F then)
<seb128> ah, I though we would have another 'translation update' for ubiquity but looks like an export was included on friday so probably not
<seb128> how are things looking from the London secret room? ;-)
<Laney> nothing going on atm
<Laney> usually means we find something tomorrow :>
<jibel> hm, all the cases have been covered and no important bug, that's suspicious
<jibel> beach time then ;)
<jibel> my wifi connection fails to reestablish on resume from suspend and I've to restart the machine (restarting nm or network is not enough) Has anyone seen this on eoan?
<seb128> ok, it's meeting time!
<seb128> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-15
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 15 13:30:57 2019 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-15 | Current topic:
<seb128> Roll call:  didrocks, duflu (out), hellsworth, jamesh (out), jibel, kenvandine, laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 , tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
<oSoMoN> o/
<marcustomlinson> o/
<seb128> between rls week and hackfest unsure if everyone is around
<kenvandine> o/
<seb128> but let's started/see
<didrocks> hey
<seb128> #topic rls-bb-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-15 | Current topic: rls-bb-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no desktop entry
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-bb-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> no unassigned entry
<seb128> #topic rls-dd-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-15 | Current topic: rls-dd-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1831295
<ubot5> bug 1831295 in firefox (Ubuntu Disco) "Firefox freeze when I drag an URL address to a Nautilus window under Wayland" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1831295
<seb128> oSoMoN, you nominated it without assignee bypassing the team workflow? ;)
<oSoMoN> did I?
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1831295/+activity suggests so
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1831295 in firefox (Ubuntu Disco) "Firefox freeze when I drag an URL address to a Nautilus window under Wayland" [Undecided,New]
<seb128> anyway
<seb128> I would vote -1 for rls
<oSoMoN> IÂ added the tag
<seb128> Disco is about to be non-current and is non-LTS
<oSoMoN> anyway, I'm -1 for rls, too
<kenvandine> -1
<oSoMoN> it's affecting wayland/disco only
<seb128> and it's wayland only
<seb128> k
<seb128> oSoMoN, I'm deleting the disco line then
<seb128> and removing the tag
<oSoMoN> thx
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> only that firefox one
<seb128> #topic rls-ee-bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-15 | Current topic: rls-ee-bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-incoming-bug-tasks.html
<seb128> bug #1631161
<ubot5> bug 1631161 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Preferred output device is not remembered between logins" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631161
<seb128> would be nice to see the user experience improved around this for the LTS
<seb128> but I don't think it's rls material for e
<seb128> I vote -1
<didrocks> we couldn't spend time working on it for quite some cycles, so yeah, not rls material (not a regression anyway)
<didrocks> so -1
<Laney> wait
<Laney> you sure this isn't a regression?
<didrocks> (we have multiple similar cases, so maybe this one is)
<didrocks> but it's been a couple of years pulseaudio audio sink automatic switch is broken at least
<Laney> this sounds like every reboot comes up with the wrong output
<Laney> I think that's a new one
<seb128> Laney, the description states 'Tested not working in 16.04, 16.10 and Mint 18 (packages from 16.04).'
<seb128> and the report is from 2016
<seb128> Laney, do you think of https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1847570 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1847570 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "PulseAudio automatically switches to HDMI sound output on login" [Medium,Triaged]
<Laney> ah
<Laney> I clicked that following Daniel's comment
<Laney> that one should be the rls one imho
<seb128> I would agree with that
<seb128> let's review it as if it was tagged
<seb128> I think I lean to +1 for that one as well
<seb128> other opinions?
<hellsworth> i'd say +1 because it's likely to be hit by many. so high ux
<didrocks> my audio sink being broken for release stopped driving me mad :)
<didrocks> releases*
<didrocks> so unsure
<didrocks> (I think we have a bigger task to tackle)
<seb128> k, let's nominate and assign to Daniel, we can revisit depending of what he finds out
 * Laney is +1
<Laney> thx
<didrocks> makes sense
<seb128> k, next
<seb128> bug #1847551
<ubot5> bug 1847551 in mutter (Ubuntu) "Mutter 3.34.1 broke Night Light, screen color profiles" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847551
<seb128> that's fixed upstream
<seb128> and the title doesn't tell but it's wayland specific
<seb128> well since it's fixed it's just a matter of getting .2 SRUed once available
<seb128> so I vote -1 for rls
<seb128> doesn't need special tracking and it's wayland only
<didrocks> +1 on the -1 :p
<seb128> k, let's do that
<seb128> bug #1848156
<ubot5> bug 1848156 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "Update gnome-terminal to 3.34.1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848156
<seb128> same class of issue, fixed upstream, wayland specific
<seb128> I vote to untag and just SRU the .1
<didrocks> yeah, sounds good for a day 0 SRU
<seb128> does somebody want to do that SRU?
<seb128> well if you want please assign yourself the bug
<seb128> if you don't it might land later on someone's plate through managements' decision :)
<seb128> next bug #1826040	
<ubot5> bug 1826040 in example-content (Ubuntu) "examples.desktop file is not executable and only opens into default text editor(gedit)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1826040
<seb128> Laney said he's going to handle it
<seb128> it doesn't need to be rls tagged imho, no point SRUing it if we miss the release because it's a new install thing only
<seb128> so I vote to untag it
<oSoMoN> agreed-
<seb128> thx, doing that
<seb128> I tagged a bug that didn't get picked by the report yet
<seb128> bug #1848202
<ubot5> bug 1848202 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "Use after free in gdbus leads to eds segfaults" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848202
<seb128> on my new installs testing, adding google account to goa often leads to eds segfaults
<seb128> which seem to lead to that error/fix (I reported upstream on eds which was dupped from the glib fix)
<seb128> it's also quite high on e.c.c reports, so I vote +1 for nominating/SRUing
<marcustomlinson> fair enough
<Laney> feel free to SRU it
<Laney> I don't think we need to discuss bugs like this one which have a fix available already
<Laney> imho snyesy
<Laney> anyway* wtf
<seb128> Laney, k, I was going to ask if you wanted to own that SRU but seems you just tried to bounce away
<seb128> I will have a look
<seb128> and I think that is for incoming ee bugs
<seb128> http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-ee-tracking-bug-tasks.html
<Laney> haha
<seb128> no unassigned bugs
<seb128> #topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-15 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
<Laney> EMPTYYYYYYYYYYYY
<seb128> indeed, good work!
<seb128> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2019-10-15 | Current topic: AOB
<seb128> other topics?
<didrocks> nothing for me
<hellsworth> goals for testing before release?
<hellsworth> or is it just test as much of all the things
<Laney> you can assign that glib one to me if you want, just sounded like you were on it
<seb128> Laney, I can backport that one fix but I was unsure if maybe you wanted also to look at fixing the dbg packages to work with valgrind since you were poking at that ... let's sync up on that after the meeting, no urgency
<Laney> going to need doko for that one
<seb128> jibel, ^ testing, do you know if anything specific is needed atm?
<seb128> Laney, k
<seb128> hellsworth, I guess jibel can reply later once he's back but I don't think there is any specific need at this poin, usually it's a good idea to try to cover things that got less testing from the iso tracker
<seb128> any other topic?
<hellsworth> you got it
<seb128> k, seems no other topic
<seb128> good efficient meeting, thanks team :)
<seb128> reminder that if people could keep an eye on bugs reports in the days after release and help with triage that's always useful
<seb128> and it's a wrap then
<seb128> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/uEut6bfN/ubuntu-desktop-1910-cycle
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 15 14:03:15 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2019/ubuntu-desktop.2019-10-15-13.30.moin.txt
<didrocks> thx
<seb128> Laney, I didn't get much traction to pinging d_oko about the valgrind thing, can you maybe ask inf_inity if that's something he would be interested to poke at? could go down to glibc since downgrading valgrind doesn't fix it...
<Laney> can ask
<Laney> is there a bug number?
<seb128> Laney, no, let me open one, I was first unsure if that was me only/a local problem/one with gnome-calendar
<seb128> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/valgrind/+bug/1848211
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1848211 in valgrind (Ubuntu) "valgrind fails to use debug symbols from glib/gtk" [Undecided,New]
<GunnarHj> Hi seb128, did you see my 'ping' (comment #24) at bug #1847021?
<ubot5> bug 1847021 in ibus-libpinyin (Ubuntu) "Cannot input Chinese if only "Chinese (Intelligent Pinyin)" is set" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1847021
<seb128> GunnarHj, now I did
<tjaalton> seb128: I'm not able to reply to the discourse thread about rls bugs
<seb128> tjaalton, ah, I guess you need to be added to the desktop group
<seb128> need to ping willcooke when he's online
<tjaalton> ok
<Laney> we broke the drums thing in the iso when switching to yaru-theme sound
<seb128> ah :/
<seb128> isn't that also the sound to tell the UI is ready which is needed for blind users?
<Laney> yeah
<seb128> :(
<Laney> thats what i mean
<seb128> so it was already broken in disco but we didn't notice?
<Laney> got an iso handy to check that?
<seb128> no, let me download one
<jibel> I've a disco image, I can check if you want
<seb128> please do :)
<jibel> my pleasure
<seb128> thx
<jibel> no sound in disco
<jibel> that's a pity for a disco
<Laney> rls-ff!
<k_alam> seb128: Hi, good afternoon, you there?
<seb128> k_alam, hey
<k_alam> seb128: There is a issue with u-c-c, in trunk i see a new leases but in release pocket it is still using the old version
<k_alam> https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-control-center-team/unity-control-center/trunk
<k_alam> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center
<k_alam> can you plz check
<seb128> k_alam, indeed
<didrocks> hum, having the Shell crashing or killing it still vanishes most of the apps :/
<seb128> k_alam, no idea what happened, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/log/3812/publish/1/info/ suggests it was landed/copied
<didrocks> got it twice, I thought that was supposed to be fixed
<seb128> Laney, ^ do you know the status?
<seb128> k_alam, try asking sil if he knows what happened to that upload
<k_alam> seb128: alright, but may it needs to be republished..
<Laney> what status?
<seb128> k_alam, the ppa got disposed so it doesn't exist anymore, unsure if the source is somewhere on the launchpad side though
<seb128> Lukasz might know
<Laney> don't see a record of that copy
<seb128> looks like https://bileto.ubuntu.com/log/3812/publish/1/info/ is lying
<seb128> 'Succeeded'
<k_alam> seb128: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/log/3812/finalize/1/ gives bzr: ERROR: No changes to commit.
<seb128> k_alam, well, the vcs was updated right?
<k_alam> yes, it was
<Laney> RikMills: yo, can you review the plasma bit in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/446731909/chromium-browser_76.0.3809.100-0ubuntu1~snap1_77.0.3865.120-0ubuntu1~snap1.diff.gz at all?
<oSoMoN> oh, that would be very handy, thanks in advance!
<GunnarHj> seb128: Did you make a note about that possible libpinyin SRU? No urgency, but I'd appreciate your view before spending time on it.
<seb128> GunnarHj, it's a tricky one but I didn't see enough user complains to convince me there is enough of a reason to wipe that user db with an incompatible upgrade
<seb128> GunnarHj, bionic is out with the issue for 1.5 years, now users can probably wait another cycle and use the next LTS if they want the improvements
<GunnarHj> seb128: Yeah, that was my spontaneous conclusion too. Peng Wu is the upstream maintainer, but I don't think he is very familiar with the concept of stable releases and SRUs... So then we stick to what we have for now. Thanks for your input!
<RikMills> Laney oSoMoN: I will try to test in a little while. Looks like it only handles a pinned taskmanager launcher though. People sometimes add launchers as panel widgets which don't live in the taskmanager, or as desktop icon
<RikMills> typical KDE. many ways to do things!
<seb128> Laney, on that example-content issue, what do you mean is still an issue, nautilus not opening link .desktop types?
<oSoMoN> RikMills, thanks, your feedback much appreciated!
<Laney> seb128: the bug as described in there is not fixed in any way
<Laney> just not our problem any more
<oSoMoN> RikMills, note that this code path is only really useful for pinned launchers, because it ensures the DE matches the running app to the launcher
<oSoMoN> it's less of a concern for launcher icons that are not linked to running apps
<RikMills> oSoMoN: fair enough
<seb128> Laney, well, the description to me looks like the nautilus wontfix part
<seb128> nautilus upstream said they have no interest in doing something better with Desktop =link types
<Laney> ok, feel free to handle it however you think is best
<seb128> handle however to?
<seb128> it has a "nautilus (wontfix)" line
<Laney> the example-content part is confirmed
<Laney> it's still true that it creates a link which can't be used
<seb128> with nautilus, I guess e.g nemo deal with it fine, so it would work on other flavors
<Laney> ok
<Laney> not sure what you're asking from me
<seb128> I was unsure to understand your comment
<seb128> I think I do get what you mean now
<seb128> so thx :)
<Laney> the bug is exactly as valid as it was before
<Laney> just less relevant for ubuntu desktop
<Laney> think that's a clear enough statement
<seb128> right, it's just that kind of bug that is weird because a combinaison of factors
<seb128> it's example-content doing something not common and nautilus having remove support for that
<seb128> so it happens only in a combinaison of using example-content and nautilus
<Laney> ok
<seb128> and we sort of removed the only case of that setup we had
<Laney> close it as won't fix then
<seb128> I guess
<Laney> example-content is not supported in nautilus
<seb128> at the same time this package is probably not important enough to even justify the time we spent having that discussion :)
<seb128> we could probably just remove it from the archive or let it as it with the bug confirmed, it's not like it was the only cruft around
<seb128> so yeah, enough discussed it, thx for the input and sorry for turning that into a not very useful discussion
<Laney> removing it is fine by me
<Laney> that would also close the bug ;-)
<seb128> right; let's see with willcooke once he's back
<RikMills> oSoMoN: Installed chromium deb. Piined it to taskmanager. Upgraded chromium with the transitional snap package. ran your code snippet. launcher still works
<RikMills> *pinned
<oSoMoN> RikMills, so far so good :) doesn't the code snippet look too clumsy? that's my first contact with KDE scriptingâ¦
<RikMills> it looks similar to a lot of other plasma desktop scripting. KDE didn't keep it simple!
<RikMills> I am far from an expert at it also. if it works it works
<seb128> marcustomlinson doing some serious libreoffice bug triaging :)
<oSoMoN> yeah
<oSoMoN> and spamming my inbox while IÂ should really be looking at something else ;)
<oSoMoN> good night all
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-10-16
<seb128> gooood morning desktopers
<jibel> Salut seb128
<seb128> lut jibel, en forme ? tjs pas trouvÃ© de release blockers? ;)
<jibel> seb128, en forme, et pas de release blocker.
<seb128> :)
<duflu> Morning seb128 and jibel
<jibel> I'm wondering if we should change the swap to use a partition instead of a zvol since that's the main feedback from the short experiment
<seb128> hey duflu, how are you today?
<jibel> not a big change but lot of retest
<duflu> seb128, average I think. You?
<seb128> is there a bug with the details?
<jibel> hi rest of the world
<duflu> ðð
<jibel> seb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1847628 it's a known problem upstream under high memory pressure
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1847628 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "When using swap in ZFS, system stops when you start using swap" [High,Incomplete]
<jibel> which on desktop summarizes to using gnome-shell ;)
<jibel> j/k
<seb128> lol
<duflu> That's odd. RSS really should default to and stick below 300MB
<duflu> for gnome-shell
<seb128> GNOME isn't usable in a 2G vm
<jibel> I was kidding about gnome-shell but if you have eg 8G of RAM it's quickly used with the shell, a webbrowser and a couple of apps
<seb128> even with 2.6
<seb128> and I mean standard desktop, like I couldn't get an install done in a such vm with ubiquity only
<seb128> the shell would freeze/hang before the end of the install
<duflu> I think it's the web browser mostly. Even a leaky gnome-shell should stay in the MB, not GB
<jibel> you cannot start a live session with 2G
<duflu> But there might be new leaks?
<jibel> duflu, start a live session with 2G in a VM, start ubiquity and you'll see that OOM killer is triggered preetty quickly
<jibel> no webbrowser needed
<jibel> anyway the minimal requirement is 4GB for a reason
<seb128> it's not the shell only, just GNOME
<jibel> right sorry
<seb128> like gnome-software as a service
<seb128> eds
<seb128> etc
<duflu> Make sure you're not looking at VSIZE
<seb128> Im' not looking at anytthing
<jibel> me neither, it is just that the system is not usable with 2GB
<seb128> I've a virtualbox vm with a 2G RAM allocation
<seb128> which used to work fine at the unity time and is getting worth every cycle
<seb128> I could get through the 19.10 install with it
<duflu> It should be clear which process(es) are to blame so if that's known then bugs should be created
<seb128> couldn(t*
<seb128> I should have a look to that yeah
 * duflu looks
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<seb128> lut oSoMoN
<jibel> this tool was very useful to analyze memory maps https://www.eqware.net/articles/CapturingProcessMemoryUsageUnderLinux/index.html
<duflu> My live session uses 729MB of RAM
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<jibel> no sure it still works on recent ubuntu
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<duflu> and zero swap
<jibel> hola oSoMoN
<seb128> duflu, unsure what's going on then why it hangs in a 2G env
<seb128> you czn try to see if you get the same experience?
<duflu> Admittedly 200MB is gnome-shell
<jibel> duflu, where do you get this number from?
<duflu> jibel, ps command RSS
<duflu> or 'free -m'
<jibel> duflu, you cannot use RSS directly to get the amount of memory used by a process
<duflu> jibel, it's the most accurate measure available other than digging deeper in /proc/PID/status
<jibel> for me gnome-shell uses 290MB of RSS
<duflu> Yes you can
<duflu> Well close enough
<jibel> but with all the libs it loads it uses 3.3GB
<jibel> (output of pmap)
<duflu> That's a beginner's mistake... it's not real memory. Ignore VSZ
<duflu> Although it is a mistake our users keep making so I'm mindful of it
<jibel> sorry for being a beginner in memory analysis :)
<jibel> I'm out for now, minimum requirement is 4GB :)
<duflu> virtual memory is not real memory it's just address space requiring no RAM or swap
<duflu> Though the real memory usage is within that
<duflu> jibel, the best measure I can suggest is the VmSize value in /proc/PID/status
<duflu> So yeah for me that is 300MB
<duflu> Oops
<duflu> I mean VmRSS, plus VmLib etc
<duflu> I made the beginners' mistake
<duflu> Though I am assume VmLib includes shared memory and that might also be wrong
<duflu> assuming
<duflu> Anyway, providing the 'free' command tells you you're not using swap then you can just measure processes by the RSS value
<seb128> bbl, I've an appointement at 10:30 (souldn't be long) and then going to the hackfest
<Laney> moin
<duflu> Morning Laney
<oSoMoN> moin Laney
<oSoMoN> good morning tkamppeter
<Wimpress> Morning o/
<oSoMoN> hey Wimpress
<duflu> Morning Wimpress
<duflu> seb128, I am enjoying eoan on the Pi
<duflu> In the end it only needs power and ethernet
<seb128> duflu, ah, nice, did you resolve the password problem?
<duflu> seb128, yeah I hacked one in. But our policy for the live image is apparently that you need to boot first with ethernet to be able to change it normally. I did not, so it got confused and then reset my password
<seb128> duflu, don't spend weeks on the libffi issue though, if it's too challenging maybe we can plan B to build without neon on armhf or something?
<seb128> duflu, ah, I see
<duflu> seb128, it's fine. I plan to finish today/tomorrow
<seb128> k:)
<duflu> seb128, I just wish I found out that the pi3 image supports Pi 4 earlier
<duflu> The Pi 3 is limited to 20MB/s on the SD card :(
<seb128> it's probably something we should write about
<seb128> discourse or blog
<seb128> so users who google find that they can (easily?) get ubuntu working on it and how
<duflu> I think I found out from the 19.10 release notes. It's not on the download page
<duflu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EoanErmine/ReleaseNotes#Raspberry_Pi_.2B2DzfUw-
<duflu> seb128, also many people have blogged about Pi SD card performance already
<seb128> duflu, I doubt that people will end up on the release note section if they google for "ubuntu pi 4", I still think a blog post or discourse would give us a more reliable/visible page
<duflu> seb128, I would just change "For Raspberry Pi 3 boards." on  http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/19.10/beta/
<seb128> ah, willcooke just when you need him :)
<duflu> Of course that's not the final URL
<seb128> willcooke, hey! how do you feel today? better?
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<seb128> going to
<seb128> going to/already in London?
<willcooke> just arrived.  Better than yesterday, but not 100%
<seb128> willcooke, hopefully you are fixed tomorrow for the release beers :)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> anything I should be testing on the haunted laptop?
<seb128> willcooke, duflu was mentioning that http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/19.10/beta/ should perhaps mention that the raspberry image also work on the pi4?
<seb128> it does mention the 3 version only atm
<duflu> As the release notes already do/does
<willcooke> I've just this second seen that the webinar that Prod. Man. are running will include that topic
<seb128> also I was suggesting that a blog on the topic might give us some visibility to users who have a pi4 and google for what to do with it
<duflu> Similarly the common kernel is called raspi2 :/
<duflu> So the image is called pi3, it works on Pi 4 and the kernel is called pi2
<seb128> that's probably more busy work to change for little benefit
<duflu> Yes, you still need to be a hacker regardless
<willcooke> seb128, duflu - sil2100 will add it
<seb128> thx
<duflu> cool
<sil2100> duflu: yeah, we wanted to actually rename the raspi3 subarch for the images to raspi, but we backtracked it as we weren't sure if we can support the pi4 with the same image
<sil2100> And we only landed the full support recently, so we deemed it too late to do the whole rename dance - this should happen for 20.04 tho
<duflu> sil2100, thanks
<duflu> seb128, OK that's enough of my life spent on that... https://salsa.debian.org/science-team/fftw3/merge_requests/1
<seb128> duflu, great, thx!
<duflu> seb128, it got to Arm assembler being generated from C macros and that's where I stopped. Not sensible for me to learn the intent there. Just avoid the bug location
<duflu> It might be gcc's fault but other bugs in fftw3 prevent me from verifying :S
<seb128> yeah, I think the solution makes sense, no point spending tons of efforts trying to fix neon on armhf
<duflu> Also, there's an upstream bug suggesting Neon is slower than non-Neon
<Laney> we're looking to do a re-spin to fix the nvidia:i386 stuff btw
<Laney> don't know if anybody said yet
<seb128> no
<seb128> Laney, did anyone talk about the zfs/swap thing jibel asked about earlier?
<Laney> dunno
<Laney> not hearing anything about it
<seb128> can you bring the topic?
<Laney> what are you after?
<seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1847628
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1847628 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "When using swap in ZFS, system stops when you start using swap" [High,Incomplete]
<Laney> I mean - you want someone here to fix it or what?
<RikMills> Laney: nice. I just added the nvidia thing to my release notes, so I can get ready to remove it again :)
<seb128> if I understood jibel correclty he seemed to point out something that we might want to change/fix before release
<seb128> or if we respin
<Wimpress> I'm ready to test nvidia when new isos drop.
<seb128> now I don't understand the topic enough to know if that's something we should or how important that is
<seb128> Laney, basically I would welcome other people to have a look and state if they think it's a release problem in their opinion
<seb128> and if it is then we need to figure out what we do I guess?
<Laney> ok
<Laney> infinity: please read the above
<seb128> thx
<infinity> seb128: If there's a fix in the pipeline that's clear and reviewable, I'm all for reviewing it and letting it in, if not, release note it.  It's an experimental feature, we don't expect perfection.
<seb128> jibel, ^ do you have a candidate fix?
<seb128> Laney, infinity, if I upload an ubuntu-settings change to follow https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gcr/commit/b841b1f29ae6 can we still get that in or should I rather turn it into a SRU?
<seb128> well, gcr needs updating as well
<seb128> just let me know if the upload needs to include a bug reference if it's turned into a SRU
<jibel> seb128, no I don't
<seb128> jibel, would it be easy to do the change or do you think we should just aim for release note at this point?
<jibel> as I said earlier it's a lot of test because it changes the partition table. I think we should release note it
<jibel> then release the fix first thing when 20.04 opens
<seb128> k, what you wrote earlier sounded like you were pondering if that was worth going through the new round of testing
<seb128> like you were not decided it was not worth it
<seb128> seems like you are now :)
<jibel> yeah while working on the fix I realize it's a significant change and didrock is not here today to do a review
<seb128> Laney, infinity, sorry, we had the gcr change (I did backport it some weeks ago), but I overlooked at the time that we had a settings overriding which is basically undoing it :/
<seb128> it's a schemas change which is used by one app afaik so should be pretty safe
<seb128> I've a feeling London left for lunch :p
<seb128> Laney, infinity, k, I uploaded ubuntu-settings, up to you to approve/reject
<Laney> seb128: thanks
<Laney> didn't but we are pair programming atm, not got full attention on irc
<seb128> k
<willcooke> jibel, added to release notes known issues re: swap & zfs
<willcooke> feel free to edit
<willcooke> *I added
<jibel> willcooke, thanks
<hellsworth> good morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> good morning hellsworth !
<hellsworth> how's it going oSoMoN ?
<oSoMoN> I'm doing alright, how are you yourself?
<hellsworth> oh i'm ok. kinda tired but nothing coffee can't fix :)
<oSoMoN> heh
<kenvandine> ha... i think the swap on zfs bug has been what's been annoying me
<kenvandine> i was trying to figure out what was causing the hangs yesterday, but couldn't find anything interesting in the logs
<seb128> going to teach you to real stop opting in for experimental filesystems ;)
<kenvandine> seb128: yeah... i said i wasn't going to do it... but then my ssd failed and had to do a fresh install
<kenvandine> which perfectly alligned with the experimental feature being enabled and i caved
<seb128> :)
<kenvandine> <- will never learn
<kenvandine> i guess reducing swapiness would help, i was using small bits of swap even though i had plenty of free memory
<jibel> if no one use experimental features, we don't find bugs and they stay experimental forever
<jibel> so thanks kenvandine for being so brave
<kenvandine> indeed
<kenvandine> and i am happy now that i know what was causing it
<hellsworth> is there a way i can have more than one snapcraft build going on the same system at the same time? like if i have two gnome-sdk clones on my system and i want to build them at the same time, that doesn't work (maybe because the multipass vm would have the same name).
<hellsworth> if i use lxd, does that enable me to run parallel builds of the same name?
<hellsworth> being confined to one build at a time on a system, i have all 4 computers at home running builds but would be more convenient if i could do it all on one system
<hellsworth> if it is one build per system, then i could add a couple of rpis to my build cluster.. does snapcraft and multipass work on arm64?
<hellsworth> that's maybe a stretch..
<kenvandine> hellsworth: ask in #snapcraft
<kenvandine> it would be handle to be able to name the multipass instance
<kenvandine> or rather override the default name
<hellsworth> thanks kenvandine
<Wimpress> Evening hellsworth o/
<hellsworth> what's up :)
<hellsworth> ok lunchtime!!
<sarnold> YAY LUNCH
 * kenvandine needs lunch
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bug/1848394
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1848394 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software properteries shows "open source" for proprietary nvidia driver" [Undecided,New]
<popey> anyone got an nvidia 19.10 machine to confirm that?
<RikMills> Wimpress: ^^
<RikMills> pretty sure Martin is going to test the nvidia install anyway for the steam/i386 bug
<Wimpress> Yep, I will test an install on nvidia now.
<gQuigs> popey  you using the graphics-driver PPA?
<Wimpress> RikMills popey I can't reproduce https://pad.lv/1848394
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1848394 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "software properteries shows "open source" for proprietary nvidia driver" [Undecided,New]
<gQuigs> IIRC the graphics-driver PPA shows up as open source because it is not in  restricted, not sure if this is definitely that  issue though
<gQuigs> Wimpress: popey yup, they have at least one package from a system76 PPA - LP-PPA-system76-pop, I'm guessing that is it
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-10-17
<popey> huh. that'll be why, they went to get the theme. and it pulled in other crap
<popey> thanks
<popey> (I filed on behalf of someone else)
<didrocks> good morning
<duflu> Morning didrocks
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
<oSoMoN> happy release day!
<didrocks> hey duflu, oSoMoN
<duflu> Hi oSoMoN
<oSoMoN> salut didrocks
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<duflu> Triangle completed
<oSoMoN> :)
<oSoMoN> â¤
<didrocks> happy release days indeed :)
<jibel> hi all
<oSoMoN> salut jibel
<seb128> happy e-day desktopers!
<jibel> finally we have our critical bug on release day \o/
<jibel> we need one every release otherwise it is not a real release
<jibel> bug 1848404
<ubot5> bug 1848404 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Eoan) "ubiquity crashes on wireless installation with gi.repository.GLib.GError: nm-manager-error-quark: Not authorized to control networking" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1848404
<seb128> no-one did a test install trying to connecting to wifi before today?
<jibel> install from a live session but not install directly apparently
<jibel> must be done on hw too
<seb128> I did a such install a week ago on the inspiron without issue
<seb128> :(
<jibel> then someone  broke it in between
<seb128> and why no-one is filing bugs the proper way?
<seb128> like using ubuntu-bug
<seb128> or at least add logs/journal
<oSoMoN> salut seb128
<jibel> luckliy there were logs in a duplicate
<seb128> lut oSoMoN, en forme ?
<oSoMoN> seb128, Ã§a va, et toi?
<seb128> oSoMoN, Ã§a va !
<didrocks> salut jibel, seb128
<jibel> Salut didrocks, comment vas tu?
<didrocks> Ã§a va, et toi ?
<jibel> bien bien
<seb128> lut didrocks, en forme ?
<didrocks> Ã§a va et toi seb128 ?
<seb128> Ã§a va :)
<seb128> arguing with french trolls on discourse
<didrocks> yeah, I know the guy
<didrocks> he has the same speech on the french forum
<didrocks> and one of the reason I don't answer there much
<seb128> 'Their answer is not admissible, I will not change my opinion regarding the use of snaps.'
<seb128> let's see if he shuts up now, enough people told him to move to other topics
<seb128> I'm sure he can find other things to complain about though :(
<didrocks> oh yeahâ¦ :)
<oSoMoN> such a waste of energy, that could be put to better useâ¦
<Trevinho> morning folks!
<seb128> hey Trevinho, how are you? still enjoying Leiden?
<didrocks> hey Trevinho
<seb128> Trevinho, sorry I couldn't join you guys yesterday evening
<Trevinho> seb128: hey, yes still here till the afternoon. No worries, was just a relaxed dinner
<Trevinho> didrocks: hi!
<oSoMoN> morning Trevinho
<marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
<Trevinho> oSoMoN: hey
<Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
<seb128> hey Wimpress, how are you?
<seb128> (and brb, moving back from morning coffee to my desk)
<Wimpress> seb128: iso testing until 3am, so a little sleepy.
<Wimpress> But looking forward to going to OggCamp tomorrow ð
<Wimpress> Are you still at the hackfest?
<didrocks> Wimpress: he is relocating, but the hackfest is done AFAIK and he's back home
<didrocks> and hey :)
<Wimpress> Morning didrocks o/
<Wimpress> There were some changes to the ZFS implementation yesterday.
<Wimpress> didrocks: Have you been brought up to speed?
<Wimpress> jibel: You were in the loop, right?
<didrocks> Wimpress: yeah, I have been. I'm a little bit concerned that we don't use this "experiment" toâ¦ experiment and have more in-the-world details for upstreams
<didrocks> because same questions will come up next cycle and it's a LTS
<didrocks> I think at least, on the usptream bug, people with those kind of issues should ping them. For them, it seems it's mostly ok since January 2019
<didrocks> (as they didn't hear back more news)
<Wimpress> Interesting.
<jibel> Wimpress, yes I was
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson, Wimpress
<Wimpress> jibel: We are observing iso boot performance issues.
<jibel> Wimpress, IMHO, we must revert this change when 20.04 opens and push upstream to fix it
<jibel> re zfs swap
<Wimpress> I'm going to share what I learned last night in #ubuntu-release
<Wimpress> ack re: ZFS swap
<Laney> ahoy
<didrocks> Wimpress: some people are talking about slow boot due to N-M potentially
<didrocks> hey Laney
<oSoMoN> ahoy Laney
<duflu> Morning other desktoppers
<seb128> hey duflu
<duflu> I just had a bunch of vaccinations and everyone arrived
<duflu> TLDR
<Wimpress> o/ duflu
<duflu>            \o
<willcooke> desktoppers, respins in a few hours and then would like everyone to help with smoke testing so we can try and get the release done asap
<willcooke> we'll need to test flavours too
<oSoMoN> ack
<duflu> willcooke, on the daily-live page? I'll look after dinner
<willcooke> thanks duflu, I'll post a link as soon as its there
<Wimpress> Ready to assist.
<willcooke> thanks Wimpress
<jibel> any ETA?
<willcooke> new casper is building atm
<willcooke> then ~ 2 hrs for respins
<willcooke> ready for testing all y'all
<willcooke> desktoppers ^
<marcustomlinson> cool! will spin up a vm now
<willcooke> please test the flavours too.  We're getting good coverage on Ubuntu desktop, but if we can tick off the flavours in good time we can release sooner
<marcustomlinson> willcooke: ok dumb question: where do I download the final iso from?
<willcooke> marcustomlinson, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/407/builds/201243/testcases
<marcustomlinson> oh it is there
<willcooke> There's a link on that page
<willcooke> :)
<jibel> marcustomlinson, or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/pending/
<didrocks> I guess we all have some kind of rsync scripts for daily. That should be shared :)
<jibel> git clone https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-tools
<jibel> cd dl-ubuntu-test-iso
<jibel> then ./dl-ubuntu-test-iso --release=eoan --build=pending --flavor=ubuntu --variant=desktop
<jibel> wil download latest desktop image
<didrocks> waow, in python, fancy :)
<jibel> works with all the flavors and arches too
<jibel> or should
<jibel> patches accepted
<didrocks> and without arg, it's taking the latest "default"?
<jibel> without args it downloads everything iirc
<didrocks> heh, I have my own script (which supports flavors/arch), but I guess I can have a look to contribute to it
<mgedmin> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-tools/tree/dl-ubuntu-test-iso/README mentions --flavor and --arch
<jibel> didrocks, when I said everything I meant everything including all the flavors and arch
<didrocks> yeah, got it, which is too much for the default "simple" use case, but a small wrapper is fine then to decide on the default parameters I guess
<jibel> didrocks, you can use a config file to define the defaults
<didrocks> oh perfect!
<didrocks> (almost, needs to generate the $latest_dev by default)
<hellsworth> good morning folks
<willcooke> hi hellsworth
<willcooke> hellsworth, today is a great day for ISO testing :)
<willcooke> as soon as we have them all ticked off we can start the release
<didrocks> hey hellsworth
<hellsworth> ok! i could use a break from the build snap failures anyways :)
<willcooke> :)
<willcooke> seeing lots of OOM issues in Virtualbox.  Don't forget to give yourself enough RAM :)
<willcooke> took me a while to work out what was going on there
 * ogra sends willcooke two bars of virtual corsair DRAM
 * willcooke prints them out 
<jibel> latest build LGTM
<willcooke> \m/
<jibel> ubuntu I mean
<willcooke> nearly done with my tests
<willcooke> hellsworth, if you didnt start already, could you look at xubuntu?
<jibel> oem, zfs, non-zfs, uefi/sb, legacy, guided and manual partitioning, vmware they all passed
<hellsworth> sure
<willcooke> oem mode is working
<hellsworth> no links: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/404/builds/200969/downloads
<hellsworth> oh sorry. i think you meant Xubuntu Desktop amd64
<willcooke> correction: oem mode is not working
<willcooke> jibel, could you test OEM mode?  It was looking fine, and then for some reason the keyboard stopped working when I was setting up the new users after oem preparation had done
<willcooke> I can enter a password, but not a name, username or machine name
<willcooke> maybe thats normal?!
<willcooke> nope
<willcooke> I can tab between the fields, so the kbd is working
<marcustomlinson> willcooke: I saw that too, was updating VMWare to see if it was that
<marcustomlinson> willcooke: but I was just doing a normal install
<marcustomlinson> VMWare easy install works so there's that at least
<marcustomlinson> ok can enter name and username this time... odd
<willcooke> just retrying here
<marcustomlinson> is my name allowed to be an emoji? :D
<willcooke> ha, please don't test that
<willcooke> if we don't test it, it can't fail
<willcooke> XD
<hellsworth> on the first page of the xubuntu installer (where it says "try ubuntu"), there's a link for the release notes that takes you to the wrong place. how do i file a minor bug about this? i've only filed bugs with ubuntu-bug
<hellsworth> i guess i can just take note of it and then file ubuntu-bug once i've gone through the install
<willcooke> hmm, that might be against ubiquity-slideshow
<hellsworth> ok thanks
<willcooke> oem worked this time
<marcustomlinson> willcooke: yeah I definitely saw what you described too, but on a normal install
<marcustomlinson> also, hooray for emoji names
<marcustomlinson> works just fine
<hellsworth> willcooke, "(If on a 'laptop') Is plugged to a power source" is not listed in regular gnome ubuntu or xubuntu. so maybe we should remove it from the test cases: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/404/builds/201243/testcases/1301/results and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/404/builds/201239/testcases/1301/results
<willcooke> hellsworth, yeah all the tests need a refresh really.  Dont worry about it for now
<willcooke> but if you remember next cycle and have time....
<hellsworth> :)
 * hellsworth needs a second laptop for testing
<willcooke> marking desktop ready!
<willcooke> \o/
<willcooke> congrats all
<hellsworth> what about xubuntu testing tho?
<willcooke> once all the tests are done we can mark it ready
<willcooke> I was just talking about "our" desktop
<marcustomlinson> :)
<marcustomlinson> nice
<willcooke> looks like xubuntu is nearly there too, thanks hellsworth sil2100
<marcustomlinson> I'll try wrap up the last 2 on kubuntu
<willcooke> nice one, thanks marcustomlinson
<hellsworth> i see in the test comments "VB" - what does this mean?
<hellsworth> varied behavior?
<hellsworth> very boring?
<hellsworth> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/404/builds/201239/testcases/1300/results
<hellsworth> vampire baby?
<ogra> you got it !
<willcooke> verified bug?
<willcooke> guessing though
<hellsworth> i got like 3 more bugs to file. not sure if any of these are xubuntu oem specific though
<willcooke> hellsworth, re: #1848542  I think we've fixed this now via a wiki redirect.  Not going to mark the bug as fixed though as I'm not 100% certain.
<willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/1848542
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1848542 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Release Notes on first page of installer takes user to wrong page" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<hellsworth> yep
<hellsworth> also: if pull updates on install is unselected it pulls updates anyways
<hellsworth> also: if pull updates on install is unselected and install 3rd party is selected, ubi-partman crashes
<hellsworth> also: when prompted for authentication (trying to file ubuntu-bug), enter correct pw but it's rejected with no error. enter wrong password and it's rejected with âYour authentication attempt was unsuccessful. Please try againâ . enter correct pw again and it's accepted.
<hellsworth> i'll get to filing these here after my 1:1
<hellsworth> and i'd like to test with regular ubuntu desktop iso too. Those three were found with xubuntu oem install
<willcooke> And we're done. Congratulations everyone, and thank you.
 * willcooke -> pub
<hellsworth> cheers!
<kenvandine> woot
<hellsworth> when you type `lsb_release -rb` on an xubuntu system, shouldn't it say XUbuntu rather than Ubuntu?
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson, are you still around and still have a kubuntu system up? i wonder what lsb_release -rb says on that....
<seb128> congrats desktopers on the 19.10 release!
<ogra> +1
<kenvandine> +1
<hellsworth> yay!
<oSoMoN> hellsworth, in a kubuntu VM, the distributor ID is still "Ubuntu"
<hellsworth> ah ok thx
<Wimpress> Congratulations on another fine release desktoppers ðð
<Trevinho> yeah
<robert_ancell> kenvandine, here in case you want to start early
<Fudge> anyone want some work willing to work with our project getting working images using livebuild
<Fudge> or familiar enough to mentor or answer questions here and there
#ubuntu-desktop 2019-10-18
<oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers!
<oSoMoN> happy Friday
<pieq> salut oSoMoN !
<duflu> Morning oSoMoN
<duflu> and pi
<duflu> and pieq
<pieq> hey duflu :)
<oSoMoN> salut pieq
<oSoMoN> hey duflu
<marcustomlinson> morning oSoMoN pieq duflu
<oSoMoN> good morning marcustomlinson
<marcustomlinson> oSoMoN: hi :) could you do me a favour and trigger this please: https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=disco&arch=amd64&package=libreoffice&ppa=marcustomlinson/libreoffice&trigger=libreoffice/1:6.2.8-0ubuntu0.19.04.1
<oSoMoN> done
<marcustomlinson> thanks
<duflu> Morning marcustomlinson
<Laney> yo de yo
<clobrano> good morning everyone 0/
<clobrano> Happy release day :)
<oSoMoN> yooo Laney
<oSoMoN> good morning clobrano
<oSoMoN> technically release day was yesterday, but today is a perfect day to try it out :)
<clobrano> :D
<duflu> Morning Laney
<Laney> hey oSoMoN duflu
<marcustomlinson> morning willcooke Laney clobrano
<willcooke> howdy gang
<marcustomlinson> Well I'm impressed. I've got all 4 CPUs pegged at 100% building a snap and the desktop is still highly responsive, activities and workspace switch animations smooth
<marcustomlinson> Congrats on another great release team :)
<duflu> Morning willcooke
<hellsworth> morning desktopers
<oSoMoN> hello hellsworth
<hellsworth> happy friday oSoMoN :)
<oSoMoN> yeah, happy Friday!
<marcustomlinson> morning hellsworth
<kenvandine> good morning hellsworth
<hellsworth> hi yall!
<hellsworth> oh marcustomlinson i see you fixed the pango build (reading your email now)!
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson, how did you know to go right to usr/lib/pkgconfig/harfbuzz.pc? i mean how did you know that *this* is where the hardcoded paths were?
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: this exact thing happened with gee (you'll see the same seds there)
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: but you'll see all over the place pkgconfigs need to be fiddled with
<hellsworth> ok i'll watch for this in the future
<marcustomlinson> but it's the nature of a project like this, new territory, you may easily run into things we've never seen
<marcustomlinson> don't be discouraged by the amount of time and rebuilds it takes, it's just how it is
<hellsworth> ok thanks :)
<marcustomlinson> desktoppers: anyone seeing this a lot in their journal? gnome-shell[2126]: _clutter_stage_queue_event: assertion 'CLUTTER_IS_STAGE (stage)' failed
<Trevinho> marcustomlinson: yes, and I've already fixed it upstream... but nothing too worry about
<hellsworth> marcustomlinson, why does pango have PC=$SNAPCRAFT_PART_INSTALL/usr/lib/pkgconfig/harfbuzz.pc when atk has PC=$SNAPCRAFT_PART_INSTALL/usr/lib/$SNAPCRAFT_ARCH_TRIPLET/pkgconfig/atk.pc?
<marcustomlinson> Trevinho: really, harmless?
<hellsworth> that atk PC dir doesn't even exist
<Trevinho> it's just that any keyobard state event tries to notify cluter, while it's a kind of event that it should not handle
<Trevinho> marcustomlinson: yes, no risk...
<marcustomlinson> ok thanks Trevinho
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: good question. I don't know :P
<hellsworth> ok i'll look into it then :)
<hellsworth> i just thought you had some _reason_ :)
<marcustomlinson> hellsworth: I mean, I know that some packages like to store their pkgconfig in different places, but I didn't know the atk one didn't exist
<marcustomlinson> pkconfigs are usually in one of: usr/share/pkgconfig, usr/lib/pkgconfig, or usr/lib/$SNAPCRAFT_ARCH_TRIPLET/pkgconfig
<marcustomlinson> Trevinho: is this related: xdg-desktop-por[2036]: Failed to get application states: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.portal.Error.Failed: Could not get window list: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied: App introspection not allowed
<hellsworth> i was wrong. that dir exists. i was thinking that $SNAPCRAFT_PART_INSTALL was just /root/parts when it's really /root/parts/atk/install
<marcustomlinson> :)
<kenvandine> sil2100: I've opened and closed stable/ubuntu-20.04 tracks for all our seeded snaps
<kenvandine> sil2100: thanks for the reminder :)
<sil2100> kenvandine: thank you!
<kenvandine> I'm just glad you reminded me before i broke the daily images :)
<infinity> kenvandine: All "our" seeded snaps, by that you mean ubuntu-desktop, I assume?
<infinity> kenvandine: Do you have access to do the same for chromium?  kylin has that seeded.
<ogra> is chromium actually seeded as snap
<ogra> i thoght we kept the deb and have it switch to snap later in the process
<ogra> (the empty deb with the transition scriptery that is)
<infinity> ogra: kylin has it seeded as a snap.
<ogra> ah
<kenvandine> infinity: i think i can
<kenvandine> infinity: nope, i do not have access
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: ^^ can you open and close stable/ubuntu-20.04 for chromium?
<kenvandine> oSoMoN: and invite me to collaborate so i can help out with this in the future :)
<oSoMoN> kenvandine, yep, let me do that
<oSoMoN> open/close dance done
<oSoMoN> and invited you to collaborate
<oSoMoN> I'm calling it a day, have a great week-end everyone!
 * CarlenWhite commits the dark arts that is sending a fax.
