#ubuntu-discuss 2013-08-10
<AlanBell> u
<AlanBell> gah
<hrnz> what?
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-08-06
<colmat> Good morning!
<colmat> do anyone here know of spiceworks?
<colmat> xb
<colmat> x
<colmat> oups, sorry still new to emacs...
<colmat> spiceworks is a huge IT pros community, 4 millions+ with partners, product, its a gold mine, A thread came up "Where are the Linux partners?" Because there is not a single Linux distro that is part of this community, we only have assumption as to why. I want to find out actually why and hopefully have Canonical/Ubuntu join
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-08-07
<Kira9204> Might not be the right place to ask but why isn't the net bios name set in smb.conf by default? I spent hours trying to get my TV box to find my ubuntu SMB share and well, that and bcast first in resolve order solved it
#ubuntu-discuss 2014-08-08
<llewis> Hello, I am wanting to ask a question about creating a new user account at next reboot for a client
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-03
<tintedwindows> hey "wafflejock" "phunyguy" it's rustic_plague
<tintedwindows> what up
<wafflejock> tintedwindows, not much working on brushing up a proposal using xmind for making some images/graphs, how ya doin?
<phunyguy> I don't know who that was :(
<lordievader> Good morning.
<daftykins> good afternoon all o/
<OerHeks> hi daftykins
<EriC^^> afternono daftykins
<EriC^^> *afternoon
<daftykins> ah a fine sunny-after-rain day, the cat has just walked right past her water bowl and out the flap... in order to lick rain water from objects outside
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> there's a nice cat who gave birth recently, her kid was climbing up my tire i guess and popping out under the fenders
<EriC^^> looked so funny
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> that'd be a good snap
<EriC^^> yeah
<daftykins> another day, another shake of the head
<EriC^^> haha
<EriC^^> this guy is writing a thesis about wiping a hdd
<daftykins> i'm gonna hurt onla in a bit if we keep hearing everything
<daftykins> :P
<daftykins> looks like they're revolting against me :)
<TJ-> Why are support engineers so obtuse sometimes!?
<daftykins> uh oh, the ones about the mPCIE boot again?
<OerHeks> hey guys
<OerHeks> windows boot problem solver ?? http://itsfoss.com/no-grub-windows-linux/
<OerHeks> an i think this is handy too http://itsfoss.com/access-uefi-settings-windows-10/
<TJ-> No, they've got the message :)
<TJ-> I've had a tower network switchable CDU that controls power to one of the data cabinets fail over the weekend, which controls 32 outlets, so I'm scrambling to get it fixed/replaced. I've done some detailed analysis of the faulty Power Control PCB using a logic analyser and reported the results to the manufacturer's support engineer... who then suggests I buy a replacement network interface/management engine PCB ... which works fine! I sent an acerbic reply
<TJ->  asking what good replacing the working PCB would do
<daftykins> heh
<TJ-> Grrrr, beaten by OerHeks !
<daftykins> :D
<OerHeks> minions ... they are comming! http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/03/giant-inflatable-minion-gets-loose-causes-traffic-jam-in-ireland
<daftykins> :>
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-04
<lordievader> Good morning.
<EriC^^> morning
<lordievader> Hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<lordievader> Still a bit sleepy, hope coffee will fix that. How are you doing?
<TJ-> I know the feeling :)
<EriC^^> im good
<ObrienDave> waves
<EriC^^> hey ObrienDave
<ObrienDave> how's it going, all?
<TJ-> I've been suffering the horrors of DOS, with 1 floppy drive and swapping between 2 diskettes... how did we ever get anything done like that?
<ObrienDave> slowly ;P
<EriC^^> i rolled my ankle yesterday, it's the size of a tennis ball :>
<TJ-> Good reason for a lie-in
<ObrienDave> geez louise, always has to be one jerk in the room
<lordievader> EriC^^: :)
<lordievader> Though the ankle thing is less.
<lordievader> ObrienDave: o/
<lordievader> Hey TJ-, how are you?
<TJ-> Ready for bed, tired, fed-up with incompetent engineers :)
<ObrienDave> lordievader, o/
<lordievader> TJ-: Isn't that your default state?
<TJ-> Fortunately no else I'd be a serial killer :D
<lordievader> Hehe
<TJ-> Got up early especially to test a new firmware for the Super Talent Core Store Plus pcie SSD, for the Asmedia 106x controller that has a BIOS hang at boot problem. That didn't fix anything
<lordievader> Darn, those are the most annoying.
<TJ-> Yeah, you'd think they'd provide a debug image that writes out what it is doing so we could at least narrow down where the fault is
<ObrienDave> we need an OP in #u
<lordievader> #ubuntu doesn't have an op? That is a channel who needs it the most...
<TJ-> And on top of that ... I've had a tower network switch-able Server Technology CDU that controls power to one of the data cabinets fail over the weekend, which controls 32 outlets, so I'm scrambling to get it fixed/replaced. I've done some detailed analysis of the faulty Power Control PCB using a logic analyser and reported the results to the manufacturer's support engineer... who then suggests I buy a replacement network interface/management engine PCB ...
<TJ->  which works fine! I sent an acerbic reply asking what good replacing the working PCB would do
<TJ-> Fancy swapping my life for yours? :)
<lordievader> Ahem... How do I put this politely... No.
<lordievader> :P
<lordievader> I fixed ipv6 support in a print registration program yesterday. A couple of lines was all it took :D
<TJ-> Ahhhh, the good life - I can only dream of having access to the source code :)
<lordievader> ObrienDave: nice one ;)
<lordievader> Hihi, ObrienDave is on an insulting tour... reminds me of HHGTG.
<ObrienDave> yea, sorry, i can't understand why someone would respond to someone with an obviously asinine nick like that.
<lordievader> ;)
<lordievader> You did get him to change his nick :)
<ObrienDave> step one ;P
<wileee> tra la la boom dee ah
<wileee> exactly, just hiding
<ObrienDave> the teacher passed away,
<ObrienDave> there is no school today
<ObrienDave>  tra la la boom dee ah
<ObrienDave>  ;P
<wileee> rofl
<ObrienDave> oh boy, talk about 3rd grade humor. sheesh ;P
<wileee> I'm not even geeked, see this is what going straight does for yah
<ObrienDave> yea, sometime i wish i had not gone straight 10 years ago ;P
<wileee> just momentarily for the day here
<ObrienDave> moar beer ;P
<wileee> I've switched to the vapor nicotine for other addictions treatment, I feel so cool "it's what all the cool people are doing" said by a user failing at source code installs
<wileee> earlier
<wileee> I asked them why are you installing source code,  this would be in my forum if I was a member of any
<daftykins> EriC^^: o/
<EriC^^> o/
<daftykins> 10 mins until the xbox event at gamescom in Germany :O
<EriC^^> what event?
<daftykins> like, Microsoft's press briefing
<daftykins> showing upcoming games etc
<daftykins> argh 7 mins left
<daftykins> i'm gonna get down the coffee shop first :D
<EriC^^> oh ok
<EriC^^> cool :D
<daftykins> here's an example of the future, windows 10 on my laptop streaming the xbox one
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3hijnaaz755vwgk/IMG_20150803_200926.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> now i can see game patches wherever i am!
<EriC^^> nice
<daftykins> hate to break it to skinux, but his pen testing career isn't off to a great start since he can't install the software
<daftykins> :>
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> :D
<daftykins> OerHeks: :D
<OerHeks> uh oh, am i banned?
<cfhowlett> !phrasing!
<EriC^^> i'll probably download win10 today
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> using their handy downloader?
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> did you download the .iso?
<daftykins> yep, i grabbed the UK flavour of Pro 64-bit for my boxes :)
<cfhowlett> does it even provide an .iso?  I thought it just ran a hot update
<EriC^^> both
<daftykins> cfhowlett: well WU provides it, but for those in the know it makes more sense to just download it
<EriC^^> do you just make a fat32 and copy the files there?
<daftykins> if your hardware is EFI capable, yep
<EriC^^> cool
<daftykins> the program can make the flash drive for you if you want though
<EriC^^> oh
<daftykins> but i wanted the ISO so i can do several methods
<EriC^^> yeah
<daftykins> i usually wipe my drive then use diskpart to make the partition active, then use bootsect /nt60 X: to write the boot image - before pasting the files
<daftykins> but i'm an awkward bugger...
<EriC^^> i think i'll try that
<EriC^^> it'll be a fun experience can't wait
<EriC^^> i'm especially excited about it breaking grub
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> it'll be interesting
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> i think win10 is going to rock though
<EriC^^> looked awesome in the screenshots
<daftykins> it's definitely got a lot of things you need to turn off mind
<EriC^^> win8 has sucked for me, didn't try win8.1
<daftykins> you didn't miss much :)
<EriC^^> since installing ubuntu i've maybe used windows for an hour tops
<daftykins> i regretted ever touching any form of 8
<daftykins> like default feature allows WU to upload to other people online, stealing your bandwidth
<EriC^^> win8 sucked, win98se is my favorite os probably
<daftykins> go go vxd's!
<cfhowlett> still on 7 here.
<EriC^^> i missed 7
<EriC^^> never used it, had vista and it was pretty slow
<EriC^^> then i got this laptop with win8
<cfhowlett> I never had vista...
<EriC^^> it's pretty slow and hangs a lot
<daftykins> mmm Vista was terrible on resources, only had it for clients or peoples systems i had to fix
<EriC^^> when i think vista, i remember that blue/green turning thingy
<EriC^^> the busy prompt
<daftykins> 10 seems even lighter than 7
<EriC^^> cool
<daftykins> but yeah plenty of tinfoiler articles in the news
<EriC^^> it's fud i think
<EriC^^> it's just technology and stuff, advertising etc.
<EriC^^> i think it kind of sucks that it's there by default though
<EriC^^> i mean turned on by default
<daftykins> yeah definitely not ideal
<daftykins> there's way too much to turn off
<daftykins> i should find a way to automate it so i don't have to take days on clean installs :>
<daftykins> though i'm in no hurry to have it in for any clients yet, too early
<EriC^^> yeah :D
<OerHeks> i am sure someone is writing windows-10-tweak now
<daftykins> yeah :>
<daftykins> hrmm i woke up to my laptop having hibernated actually, bit confused
<daftykins> i've got all the silly power management off, but still it went off
<daftykins> total mystery
<daftykins> not as much of a mystery as this user in #ubuntu though
<daftykins> ;]
<cfhowlett> lol
<daftykins> what an absolute...
<cfhowlett> man this one HAS to be reposted on "tales from tech support"
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> that a site?
<cfhowlett> subreddit
<daftykins> ah
<cfhowlett> so is it official then? no wifi icon when the usb isn't plugged in?
<daftykins> he's in a net cafe then with wired plugged in
<daftykins> it's probably just that the icon looks like the wired ethernet one whilst that's in, dunno with this guy
<cfhowlett> ahhhhhhhhhh, right
<daftykins> still running 12.04 too :/
<TJ-> Expect some major Wiley headaches over the next week, if people try to upgrade packages. GCC 5.0 compiler suite and libraries were just deployed and the archive state going to be inconsistent whilst broken packages catch up
<TJ-> Recommendation is to *not* do any package upgrades for the next week or so.
<daftykins> ahhar,
<daftykins> ah well i'll use the standard approach of "go to #ubuntu+1 " :D
<OerHeks> LoL, Einstein and Hawking outscored by 12 year old girl from Essex
<daftykins> wat
<OerHeks> http://www.rt.com/uk/311563-girl-12-mensa-iq/
<daftykins> wow, gypsy too
<daftykins> but then my mate is from gypsy family and is doing a nuclear physics PhD
<OerHeks> oh sure, i believe some boy or girl will change the linux kernel by some bits and make it 2x faster
<wileee> heh, I like the young man still less than 20, who built his own reactor, and has an excellent design for safe nuclear power.
<wileee> built at 14 years old I believe
<daftykins> wileee: apologies for yesterday or whenever it was by the way, i didn't mean to be awkward :)
<wileee> daftykins, Sorry here as well I do go overboard, my apology to everyone. ;)
<daftykins> :)
<wileee> We all want to help, I'm certainly limited as a armchair user, so try to keep out of the way of real help.
<OerHeks> At least we are trying, guys
<wileee> I'm just to lazy to remember all the basic search and confirm commands from the cli, I know the basic structure, just not pro in the industry, or a student. Thinking of doing a Masters in this area if I can get a free ride.
<OerHeks> I'm just lazy
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3m9han66px7uz92/AABUyEcXPt3HUlFyq7DiYdwWa?dl=0
<daftykins> hrmm new tire on
<OerHeks> !cookie | daftykins
<ubot5> daftykins: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i've recently wondered if one can feed ubottu with a cookie for so many years of faithful factoid service
<Bashing-om> ^ Hummm.... Try it and see ??
<daftykins> why not :D
<wileee> heh, my favorite and only transportation.
<OerHeks> i'm 47 and it is still my only way of transportation.
<OerHeks> i'm riding my 26th bicycle now
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-05
<OerHeks> why .. does a chicken cross the internet .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dst_ra-AgH0
<wileee> funny fozziebear, heh, saw it before loosing conection
<wileee> geez moron user espousing garbage
<wafflejock> wileee, http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3133/113128-163181-bart-simpson.jpg good thing no one has invented an RPC strangulation bot
<wileee> heh
<cfhowlett> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bd/ce/ce/bdceceb6d7d73fa9af35f72556961920.jpg
<wileee> lol
<wafflejock> hah nice
<cfhowlett> working of the Force Choke bot now ...
<tintedwindows> dos anyone play Illarion here?
<tintedwindows> or quake 2?
<lordievader> Good morning.
<tintedwindows> blah
<ObrienDave> blah blah blah
<EriC^^> hey TJ-
<EriC^^> i just installed win10
<EriC^^> it's running super hot though fan is on full speed
<TJ-> Was it a joy ?
<EriC^^> well not really, it is supposed to pick up the key from the bios, it asked for it during the install and it wouldn't accept it
<EriC^^> it looks decent enough though, but i can't use it, the fan turns on all the way and temps are 90+
<TJ-> Does the PC use non-standard interfaces to the thermal monitor and fan control? If so, the OS likely requires system/mobo specific driver intelligence
<EriC^^> i think it was actually heating up
<EriC^^> not just the fan, cause i got into ubuntu and the temps were 90+ then it started coolign down and fans turned off
<TJ-> That sounds like an ACPI issue, with the CPU not being put into temporary sleep C3 mode when idle
<EriC^^> cpu usage is normal though in task manager, but it said the disk usage was 99% even though there wasn't much below
<TJ-> I was about about to say run powertop on it... silly me, it's Windows :D
<EriC^^> :D
<TJ-> I'd think the requirement is for the mobo/system specific drivers... maybe there are some for Win 8.x or even win 7 that might work
<TJ-> I know AMD used to provide their own chipset specific packages too, that's another possibility
<EriC^^> i see
<wileee> upgraded to W10 couple of days ago runs cool and well.
<TJ-> It certainly sounds like the CPU isn't going into C3 sleep when idle
<EriC^^> hp site says it should upgrade to win10 fine *shrug*
<TJ-> It could also be that it isn't frequency-scaling too
<EriC^^> it started during the install TJ- , in case that matters
<EriC^^> half way through the install the fan went bazerk and stayed that way
<wileee> time for water cooling, heh
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> it's an i7 btw
<TJ-> EriC^^: According to superuser.com the system might have this tool: "powercfg -energy"
<EriC^^> bought in 2014
<wileee> I read earlier that setting up a water cooler is half way between running linux and speaking klingon
<TJ-> See https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc748940%28v=ws.10%29.aspx
<TJ-> Water coolers are fine if there are no leaks... I'd rather use mineral oil in it though
<wileee> I was just curious how it's done, to much slack time here
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> ill brb
<TJ-> wileee: coolers are great in principle but the problem is often the bulkiness of the fittings and pipework. For many mobos and cases there isn't a lot of room to begin with and the radius of turns of the pipes makes for difficulties in finding a comfortable fit
<EriC^^_> hey TJ-
<EriC^^_> i was setting up the tethering thing for the internet
<EriC^^> hi TJ- i had to boot into ubuntu, temps were reaching 102'c
<TJ-> ouch
<EriC^^> TJ-: http://explosive.bshellz.net/energy-report.html
<EriC^^> that's the report the command gave
<EriC^^> it mentions some acpi and driver errors
<EriC^^> i really like win10, this sucks
<EriC^^> could it be i need to download the amd graphics driver?
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> greetings
<EriC^^> o/
<EriC^^> did you get win10 activated?
<daftykins> yeah it was fine when i powered on on the 30th, their activation servers were just getting hammered on release day :D
<EriC^^> oh ok cool
<EriC^^> i installed it, but it didn't accept my key
<wileee> mine was a couple days later with no key issues
<daftykins> EriC^^: which key was that?
<EriC^^> i read that you have to upgrade for it to work
<daftykins> you have to do an upgrade atop 7 or 8 to convert your existing sadly
<EriC^^> the key i pulled out from the bios for win8
<daftykins> ah yes that won't go in, you'll have to install 8 then upgrade
<EriC^^> there's a rumor that if you upgrade you can then fresh install, dunno though
<daftykins> yep i did clean installs immediately after
<EriC^^> anyways it was overheating like crazy, temps at 100'c
<daftykins> works a treat :) just skip the key entry pages and it works out fine
<daftykins> o0 CPU?
<wileee> you can with a double install and the correct key, looks like an upgrade, or in W7 and 8 you could do a config tweak
<OerHeks> like this EriC^^ ? http://imgur.com/gallery/PbiZ6ok
<OerHeks> :-D
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> i tried setting the amd driver to battery saving, it lowered the temps to 80-90
<EriC^^>  TJ- had me run a command for energy it gave this report http://explosive.bshellz.net/energy-report.html
<EriC^^> most of them went away after upgrading drivers except for the last 3 or so
<wileee> EriC^^, just as a reference,  http://winsupersite.com/article/windows-7/clean-install-windows-7-with-upgrade-media-128512
<EriC^^> anyways i reinstalled win8 cause you can't customize it without activating it and stuff so i'll try upgrading this time
<TJ-> EriC^^: Impressive! "Average Utilization (%) 	4572646.00"
<EriC^^> lol
<wileee> I did use a W10 iso for my upgrade, had to do some cleanup to get there, downloaded it while scrubbing the os
<TJ-> I found out today from Nvidia engineers that the typical operating temperature at idle for the Quadro NVS420 is 45C ... it's been running at 70C+ for a while and needing manual fan-control intervention.
<EriC^^> learned some dos commands today :>
<daftykins> not just bad TIM or blocked fans?
<TJ-> So the workbench now has the RasPi+LCD+RF signal detector, laptop + mini-PCIe SSD testbed, the PCBs out of the failed CDU, the NVS420 with heatsink stripped off ... anyone want to take on some of my projects!?
<TJ-> daftykins: No... I'd previously replaced the thermal pastes with no improvement. The problem I had was Nvidia didn't publish the typical/max operating temps so I had to chase them down with their engineers
<TJ-> I've got some copper shims arriving tomorrow, which should help. The heatsinks don't have great mating with the heat sources, especially for the RAM ICs
<OerHeks> pom pom pom
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-06
<wileee> oh yes, removing grub is always a great idea
<wileee> heh
<TJ-> Yes, it is, I do it routinely. Only one install needs to control the boot-loader, else there are all sorts of problems with the OSs each trying to rewrite it
<wileee> matter of personal use, never had a problem with usually 3 linux install same HD
<JanC> grub should be able to manage that itself instead  :)
<wileee> a new person, not so good, not criticizing any help just that decision
<TJ-> If you have custom config for grub, then you'd have to replicate it across all the OSes, and any changes in those OS grub policies could causes issues
<wileee> Actually a new user may be better, I just load the mbr from the os that needs grub at the moment, like a kernel update
<wileee> no custom here is all
<TJ-> I'd hate to have multiple OSs trying to control grub, it'd make my systems unbootable
<daftykins> i have a machine with lightning-fried USB and i no longer own a PS/2 keyboard, i can't interact with the boot menus at all 8D
<wileee> probably the only place besides helping I'm ocd enough tyo not have issues, heh, not been diagnosed after much time spent with a clinical psych. ;)
<wileee> I just wondered if they might be gpt, efi...etc, even with just arch
<JanC> daftykins: you can get truckloads full of PS/2 keyboards for free  ;)
<daftykins> hahaha
<TJ-> Or get the soldering iron out and fix that USB!
<daftykins> nah, power is there but the controllers got murdered
<JanC> there are also PS/2 <-> converters  ;)
<JanC> PS/2 <-> USB
<daftykins> oh i'm aware, worked in this industry for quite some time
<daftykins> but it's an old core 2 quad build so besides be used as a victim for windows 10 testing a while back it doesn't do much
<JanC> heh, that's still quite useful hardware
<daftykins> my own desktop is already that, so i don't need two :>
<tintedwindows> does anybody have a good reference where i can learn how to see all the open ports on my comp?
<cfhowlett> wafflejock: Pulp Fiction mode required: chill the frack
<cfhowlett> tintedwindows, run !ports      in the #ubuntu
<ObrienDave> *waves*
<EriC^^> hey ObrienDave
<ObrienDave> having fun in #U? ;P
<EriC^^> yeah :D
<ObrienDave> LOL
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ObrienDave> o/
<lordievader> Hey ObrienDave, how are you doing?
<ObrienDave> good lordievader, and you?
<lordievader> Waking up, making coffee.
<ObrienDave> getting ready for bed. having beer ;P
<ObrienDave> oops, had beer ;P
<lordievader> You can allways have another ;)
<cfhowlett> ObrienDave, a user admonished me for - wait for it - being snarky!
<ObrienDave> don't have any more :(
<ObrienDave> you????? heaven forbid ;P
<cfhowlett> I know, right?  Incredible.
<ObrienDave> what's the world coming to.... ;P
<tintedwindows> pretty soon, theyll have us on no sleep and redbull energy drinks
<ObrienDave> was it last night when someone got mad at me for something someone else said?
<ObrienDave> night before? LOL
<tintedwindows> isnt that every nigt
<lordievader> lol
<ObrienDave> tintedwindows, seems like it LOL
<tintedwindows> lol
<ObrienDave> i think cfhowlett and i trade places every night LMAO
<cfhowlett> hey if no one complains, you're doing it wrong.
<ObrienDave> ^5
<ObrienDave> i have enough trouble in my life. getting kick/baned from #U would put me over the edge ;P
<ObrienDave> it's pretty bad when i have an OP in #xubuntu on my /ignore list LOL
<cfhowlett> whaaaaaaaaaa?
<ObrienDave> knome. grrrrrr
<cfhowlett> now now.  kiss and make up
<ObrienDave> never. rassin' frassin jerk ;P
<ObrienDave> that's one guy who really needs a windectomy ;P
<ObrienDave> sleepy time *waves*
<OerHeks> Yes No Yes
 * daftykins rejoins for a giggle
<EriC^^> :D
<OerHeks> just too late, you missed zetheroo
<daftykins> uhoh that nick rings a bell
<daftykins> wonder if that earl guy even booted as EFI
<EriC^^> almost had a chrootception going on
<EriC^^> :D
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> best call the pizza delivery boys and the firemen in
<daftykins> i quite like 'apt' instead of apt-get, but the trouble is you can't autoremove with it and you can't clean with it - so you end up needing both still anyway
<daftykins> the man page is particularly useless
<OerHeks> first time i used full-upgrade
<OerHeks> confusing, apt <> apt-get
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> i'd been using dist-upgrade still with apt
<daftykins> they're probably linked
<TJ-> apt is the user front-end to apt-get
<TJ-> apt full-upgrade is equivalent to apt-get dist-upgrade
<daftykins> drat, go to put the second new tire on the bike and the inner tube bursts in several places
<daftykins> got a spare but it says 1.5/2.2" tires max, my new on is 2.35"
<EriC^^> that sucks
<daftykins> s/on/one/
<EriC^^> this guy is so lucky, nobody ever has an option to switch the order in the bios, and his install wouldn't have worked out any other way (i can think of)
<daftykins> what kind of order? when seeing multiple EFIs?
<EriC^^> yeah he can change the order of which efi files to boot
<EriC^^> his bios is hard coded as it is most of the time to boot windows, but from the bios he can choose to override it
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> my encounters with EFI kit are always fleeting, but i manage to get what i need to done when i do come up against them
<daftykins> all my own kit is pretty old
<EriC^^> seems i spoke too soon
<daftykins> :<
<daftykins> there be crazy brewin'
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/601z06isymtw755/IMG_20150806_225243.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> that thing is looking pretty mean now
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-07
<daftykins> anyone hot on an appropriate command for copying an existing /home to a new disk? :)
<daftykins> i don't know if anything special would be needed to preserve permissions or such like
<Bashing-om> daftykins: We have a handy dandy : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Partitioning/Home/Moving .
<daftykins> ooh nice! thanks
<JanC> an alternative would be FSArchiver or such
<JanC> e.g. if you can't copy directly for some reason
<daftykins> how come that guy doesn't have the LVM partitions in his /dev/mapper in a live session :/
<daftykins> i have no clue with LVM :)
<EriC^^> daftykins: did he install the lvm stuff
<Bashing-om> daftykins: I too looked ( njmbb8), and a bit confused as I only see 1 VG  for swap . Like you I do not do LVM . - Yeah not much help here from me .
<EriC^^> nevermind
<daftykins> EriC^^: not in the live session nah, do you need something to enable them?
<daftykins> Bashing-om: cheers :>
<EriC^^> i dunno i vaguely remember something had to be installed for something
<daftykins> mmm i always avoided it 'cause it seems to complicate life unnecessarily
<EriC^^> ( i know, not much help )
<daftykins> i'll just pinch the funky auto mount points from 'mount' output then try and cp the /home/username to the second disk i think
<daftykins> then with any luck my fstab is golden and on reboot all will be well
<daftykins> note to self don't tell everyone your nightmares
<daftykins> ;D
<EriC^^> lol
<Bashing-om> facing our fears, litle by little I get the more comforable with UEFI . Like systemd - it is coming may as well get perpared . Ready or not here it comes !
<daftykins> i don't really have a clue on init stuffs, i barely converted to 'sudo service x start/stop/restart' after init scripts
<daftykins> no idea how it is now
<daftykins> i don't even know how to say which one is in use on a given machine :)
<Bashing-om> Yeah, I liked inittab ! Just about the time I adjust to upstart, there is this new one in the works .
<Bashing-om> daftykins: To determin the init system I use ' ps -p1 | grep systemd && echo systemd || echo upstart ' .
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> i guess we can go by releases too?
<daftykins> did 15.04 switch to systemd? i don't even pay much attention when it's not LTS :>
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Most certainly 15.04 is systemd. And yaeh the breaks are applied real hard when I see 15.04 . systemd has it's fingers in may places . A lot to relearn .
<wileee> oh my, hehj
<ObrienDave> waves
<lordievader> Good morning.
<ObrienDave> o/
<lordievader> \o
<cfhowlett> "Why did you so quickly Private Gump?!"  "Because you Sudo told me to Sergeant."
<cfhowlett> "Why did you disassemble that rifle so quickly Private Gump?!"  "Because you Sudo told me to Sergeant."
<EriC^^> hey TJ-
<EriC^^> i'm restoring my arch install to a usb, i can't seem to make the efi fat32!
<TJ-> how are you trying to do it?
<EriC^^> mkfs.fat -F 32 /dev/sdb1 still makes it fat16, and grub-install says can't find any efi
<TJ-> how big is it?
<EriC^^> i created the partitions again, copied over the root filesystem, and changed /etc/fstab
<EriC^^> it's 300M
<EriC^^> 1      1049kB  316MB   315MB   fat16           EFI   boot
<EriC^^> sudo mkfs.fat -F32 /dev/sdb1 mkfs.fat 3.0.26 (2014-03-07)
<EriC^^> sudo parted still gives same output
<TJ-> sudo parted /dev/sda print
<TJ->  1      1049kB  269MB   268MB   fat16        EFI System           boot
<EriC^^> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12019628/
<EriC^^> this is blkid /dev/sdb1: SEC_TYPE="msdos" UUID="9906-2FF9" TYPE="vfat"
<EriC^^> it didn't used to have that SEC_TYPE="msdos" before
<TJ-> Secondary Type
<TJ-> EFI doesn't mind whether its FAT12,16, or 32
<EriC^^> that's odd
<EriC^^> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12019653/
<EriC^^> i had to give it the efi dir
<EriC^^> never had to do that before
<EriC^^> it's still odd it won't make it fat32 though
<TJ-> That's correct. grub checks for the currently mounted device and if there isn't one, needs to be told
<EriC^^> it's mounted though
<EriC^^> and in fstab
<EriC^^> i just got this error too
<EriC^^> Generating grub configuration file ...
<EriC^^>   /run/lvm/lvmetad.socket: connect failed: No such file or directory
<EriC^^>   WARNING: Failed to connect to lvmetad. Falling back to internal scanning. done
<EriC^^> anyways TJ- i reinstalled windows and installed all the hp drivers i had
<EriC^^> it's still running really hot, i checked the services and there's a SYSTEM IDLE PROCESS which is supposed to run and it is running at 80-90%
<EriC^^> but it's still reaching 90-100 temps unless i put the amd and intel to minimum power and it still isn't very usable
<EriC^^> the last error report showed something about dllhost.exe not asking the cpu to rest or something, it hadn't appeared before
<TJ-> This with Win10 again?
<EriC^^> yeah
<EriC^^> i reinstalled win8 and upgraded as ms says, so it'll be activated
<EriC^^> i'll brb, will try arch and maybe run an energy report in win10 again
<TJ-> Obviously a Win10 issue then
<EriC^^> installing drivers can't help?
<EriC^^> i just noticed an odd behavior
<EriC^^> when i mount the arch install, my home dir has my ubuntu's user as the owner, when i chroot it changes to the arch owner
<EriC^^> even if i mount the install using another ubuntu user, it has the same ubuntu user until i chroot
<EriC^^> how's that work i wonder
<TJ-> Because the owner/group are stored as the ID number... looked up from /etc/passwd, which will be different in the 2 installs
<EriC^^> ah ok
<TJ-> The first user ID created usually is 1000, so depending on which system's root is in operation, you'll see different usernames if they are different in the respective /etc/passwd
<EriC^^> ah shows as fat32 after a reboot
<EriC^^> this is odd
<EriC^^> arch is all screwed up
<EriC^^> when i ran startx it said there's no keymap, i reinstalled the package and then when X started the touchpad didn't work
<EriC^^> i've restored the install before, the only difference is that i used a tar.gz this time to copy it
<TJ-> Did it miss out the dot-files
<EriC^^> no the dot files are there, and also the symlinks and permissions are correct
<EriC^^> could it be cause i reinstalled the kernel from the chroot?
<EriC^^> i think last time i just copied the efi partition all together, this time i didn't and so i had to reinstall the kernel
<EriC^^> anyways TJ- so i shouldn't be driver hunting for win10 to work?
<EriC^^> maybe they'll fix it in an update or so?
<TJ-> Best to open a support incident with the manufacturer... I suspect, as I said before, it needs chipset/ACPI drivers specific to the model
<TJ-> I think I got up too early, my brain won't even compute 0x200 * 1KB aka 1024
<TJ-> !! that's not even the correct equation... sheesh.
<ubot5> TJ-: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<TJ-> ubot5: you're doing better than me!
<ubot5> TJ-: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<EriC^^> hehe
<EriC^^> TJ-: how does grub.efi know which file to use
<TJ-> grub.efi is simply core.img ... it loads the grub.cfg and other modules
<EriC^^> in ubuntu there's a grub.cfg in the same location as grubx64.efi
<EriC^^> it has this search.fs_uuid c65ac418-c145-4a7c-b965-1308aa595d24 root hd0,gpt5
<TJ-> internally it depends on what prefix= and root=
<EriC^^> set prefix=($root)'/boot/grub' configfile $prefix/grub.cfg
<EriC^^> so i guess grubx64.efi uses that to load the grub.cfg file?
<EriC^^> cause in arch there's only a single grubx64.efi
<EriC^^> i was wondering how does it know where the grub.cfg is
<EriC^^> is it hardcoded to search the same disk at /boot/grub/grub.cfg ?
<TJ-> I mean internal to the core.img/grubx64.efi ... those pre-written values tell it where to find its own 'root' (/boot/grub/) which then will then allow it to "insmod normal" which can read the config and act on it via the "normal" internally executed command
<EriC^^> cause in arch by default the efi partition also contains /boot/grub/grub.cfg, the efi dir is only /boot not /boot/efi
<TJ-> Part of what grub-install does is create and *link* the required grub modules and data into the core.img sufficient for it to be able to access its root file-system... this is why if /boot/grub is on LVM the grub lvm module is linked into core.img
<TJ-> That isn't what the Arch docs I've seen say, about EFI anyhow, and I've used them alot in the past to get my head around EFI
<EriC^^> when i installed arch it said to use /boot instead of /boot/efi
<EriC^^> dunno
<EriC^^> it says /boot/efi in some places im looking now
<TJ-> /boot/ contains the OS kernels, initrd.img, symbols, config, etc. /boot/efi/ should be the mountpoint for the EFI SP which when mounted then gives you /boot/efi/EFI/ ... if it were /boot/EFI/ that would imply mounting the ESP *over* /boot/, hiding the kernel images
<EriC^^> it says "/boot is also recommended for mounting the EFI System Partition on a UEFI/GPT system"
<EriC^^> but reading more it looks more relevant for EFISTUB
<TJ-> Does it mean "under the /boot hierarchy" though, or actually "mount /dev/sda1 /boot" ?
<TJ-> Look at that and it makes no sense whatsoever... whereas "mount /dev/sda1 /boot/efi/" makes perfect sense
<EriC^^> yeah i know, i think it means to use /boot as the efi partition and contain the kernels too
<TJ-> Do not let me miss the end of this ebay auction in 8 minutes... don't let me get sidetracked!!
<EriC^^> but i think it's only for efistub or something
<EriC^^> " In case of EFISTUB, the kernels and initramfs files should be stored in the EFI System Partition. For sake of simplicity, you can also use the ESP as the /boot partition itself instead of a separate /boot partition"
<EriC^^> hehe
<TJ-> If it means use /boot/ to mount the EFI SP and keep the kernels there too since otherwise that file-system is mostly wasted space ... that makes sens
<TJ-> Oh, yes, that makes sense because using EFISTUB there's no GRUB
<EriC^^> ah i se
<EriC^^> *see
<EriC^^> the docs are kind of misleading, i remember it said somewhere in arch it's recommended to use /boot not like other distros that use /boot/efi
<TJ-> The boot is then UEFI > EFI-stub > Linux or more simply UEFI > Linux
<EriC^^> or something like that, anyways ill probably fix that later
<EriC^^> arch booted, i copied the efi partition as is
<EriC^^> grub still complains that it can't find the efi dir though
<EriC^^> i guess it didn't work earlier cause i installed the kernel from the chroot, or something
<EriC^^> thanks for your help TJ-
<OerHeks> lolz cfhowlett that guy is on mirc :-D
<cfhowlett> so mirc, eol and backtrack?  we have a winner ...
<OerHeks> maybe running on an Apple device, with a Wii remote, top notch!
<cfhowlett> l33t!
<OerHeks> .. and wearing a tshirt with that FSF guy :-D
<daftykins> oh dear did i miss a corker?
<OerHeks> corker = .. ?
<daftykins> shocking or surprising event
<daftykins> so that guy on mIRC, out of date and asking about backtrack D: oh dear
<OerHeks> yeah, the rest is fantasy
<OerHeks> ... but likely true
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-08
<OerHeks> ... with errors ... *facepalm*
<wileee> I can't tell if they actually got installed here
<daftykins> what's this?
<Bashing-om> So long as he (< Guy1524>) is trying, we can help . Get him over the frustration level so he can focus and concentrate in a coherent manner .
<daftykins> what an idiot Â¬_Â¬
<Bashing-om> K; can not help the helpless .
<daftykins> bazhang's oping seems to have moved to the darkside
<wileee> thought I saw them at the darkside bar
<OerHeks> cateyes
<ObrienDave> who is this stevendale? and why should i care?
<ObrienDave> EriC^^, is he serious?
<EriC^^> *shrug*
<ObrienDave> *bangs head on wall*
<daftykins> we got another great customer?
<ObrienDave> sort of. someone trying to install mini and wondering why no desktop LOL something like that ROFL
<ObrienDave> net mini, no less LOL
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<daftykins> you'd think the clue was in the name
 * ObrienDave takes aim at Google translate. *** BOOOOOOOOOOM ***
<ObrienDave> ;P
<ObrienDave> is it troll day????
<daftykins> always the weekends
<ObrienDave> satur-troll-day? ;P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hrmm, thought it was Sunday already
<ObrienDave> maybe in your part of the galaxy ;P
<wileee> people who show any attitude or trolling or stupidity get an immediate ignore here,
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> yeah i should do that, otherwise they work me up and i just tell it like it is :)
<wileee> I do too heh
<ObrienDave> me three ;P
<wileee> always couched in the words I use
<ObrienDave> grrrrrr. why do they always want to argue the logic of LTS?
<daftykins> we're in that generation now where kids are trying it out - and kids seem to think that the only way to run a computer is to chase the latest versions of everything
<daftykins> even getting the idiots come in trying to install the latest kernels from kernel.org now *sigh*
<wileee> if you are the center of the world, i'ts how you see it, could be a age attached cognitive dev, might just be a jerk, seen more than enough oldsters do the same.
<ObrienDave> woah, i'm an oldster and i understand LTS ;P
<wileee> me to
<wileee> heh
<ObrienDave> i represent that remark ;P
<wileee> i've realized for long time a stagnant outlook will make you look really stupid around others who are not at the least, not that I care, I just want the complex pictures
<wileee> high level dev is being able to hold multiple conflicting views and not necessarily take any side
<wileee> or at least understand them
<ObrienDave> yes, you need to stay up on the latest trends but, that does not mean you install the bleeding edge automatically
<wileee> oh yeah, that is the most irritating user.
<wileee> it's like trying to change someones religion
<ObrienDave> i liked the trolls comment, if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it LOL
<wileee> had to clean the ignore I'm missing all the fun
<ObrienDave> yes you are LOL
<wileee> Per a recomendation from a friend I just read this book 'the short and tragic of robertpeace; a brillian young man who leeft newark for the ivy league' A young black man who had his tuition and everything covered attends Yale, a brilliant person in many ways and a tragedym in the end, got it free as an ebook.
<wileee> I have a degree in black studies, so this was so nice to return to as a read
<daftykins> tragedy?
<wileee> He dies in the end, it is a really good image of the lives of many people in this cultural group
<wileee> earned a presidential award in highschool, and was sponsored to Yale by the benefactor of the private school, whom had never done this for anyone.
<daftykins> hrmm, so where'd it all go wrong?
<wileee> daftykins, Being from the hood and never being able to leave the caretaking of many people with working hard and selling some weed. Much more complex but that is the jist. A downward spiral leaving Yale with all A's except one C.
<daftykins> :(
<wileee> actually made some major scientific discoveries was a scientist in degree, but covered all the classic bases for an informed mind.
<wileee> an amazing story really and so sad as well
<daftykins> mmm, sounds it
<daftykins> honestly, setting brightness in drivers instead of on the monitor - friggin' users are insane
<wileee> I like the unity users who have to go all configs and lxde/lubuntu users who never heard of a config
<wileee> or even worse a tiling wm
<daftykins> xubuntu shocked me in that it'd still blank your screen at idle time out, when playing a full screen video
<daftykins> some basic features just aren't thought about at all
<wileee> I have ended up with the gnome shell, I never use most of the de, just a search 'synapse'and a cairo dock, addons and no top bar and bottom is held down with an app
<wileee> blank desktop mainly
#ubuntu-discuss 2015-08-09
 * daftykins hits the big red button re: saint
<wileee> lol 'dear'
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i need that amusing gif on a trigger
<cfhowlett> what the heck did I just read?
<wileee> male brain takes till around 25 to fully develop
<wileee> girls average at 23
<daftykins> for a 21 year old that guy sounds like an aspie 12 year old wanting all the answers at once Â¬_Â¬
<cfhowlett> and the trolling begins ...
<daftykins> from whom?
<cfhowlett> daftykins, helpmeubuntu got a bit frustrated and threw out a fud comment.  then he stopped so ... not really trolling, just frustrated.
<daftykins> ah yes
<daftykins> oh dear, and now with the social labels
<daftykins> "i'm this so i get to act this way" oh dear :)
<cfhowlett> yeah, that's not happening either
<daftykins> anywho time to head off, g'night folks :)
 * daftykins punches his time card
<wileee> later gator
<wileee> sharpen the teeth when off
<daftykins> http://www.engadget.com/2015/08/08/intel-memory-sinkhole-flaw/
<daftykins> nasty
<OerHeks> hardwarebugs, the only way to prevent these, is running a VM.
<daftykins> i dunno, if you have hardware VT on it might still be able to sneak in
<OerHeks> old news, there are more such nasty bugs known, some are not in Xeon or Celeron.
<OerHeks> true, escape from any container.
<daftykins> this SolarNRG guy is a total nut job
<daftykins> 'share the root password' wat
<OerHeks> yeah, cbwyas (come back when you are sober)
<OerHeks> hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi OerHeks
<OerHeks> please add this channel to autojoin, thanks :-P
<daftykins> how do people not know that they're bot triggers O_O
<EriC^^> hehe, will do
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-08
<lordievader> Good morning.
<OerHeks> hi-di-hi
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/2mthR
<daftykins> well i've been trying my first stab at desoldering today, but i'm concerned with how the tip has gone brown like that
<OerHeks> that is normal. just the paint/laque is burning.
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> the tip is still shiny!
<OerHeks> desoldering, i used to use a sucktion device like this > http://img.banggood.com/thumb/view/upload/SKU017835/20110914180234862.jpg
<daftykins> i've got one here but it didn't seem too useful to what i've been doing
<daftykins> the solder pad area is just so tiny!
<daftykins> at first i thought i could just hold the iron against the bottom and start to wiggle it, then i looked up a video and saw you have to put solder on - to take it off! what!?
<OerHeks> Yes, the tip must be fuid, or use something like desoldering wire http://www.robotroom.com/PCB/Desoldering/Desoldering-braid.jpg
<OerHeks> c/fluid
<daftykins> EriC^^: \o
<EriC^^> hi daftykins
<EriC^^> how's it going?
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/2mthR <-- dafty learns to desolder
<daftykins> all good here thanks :) or would be if i had a clue what i was doing ;D
<daftykins> how're you?
<EriC^^> doing good thanks
<EriC^^> capacitors are blown?
<EriC^^> in the motherboard?
<daftykins> yep about 6+ all in all
<daftykins> it still runs as-is, though it very subtly damaged some RAM a bit ago
<EriC^^> anybody know some nice split screen games for ps4 free to play from the ps store?
<EriC^^> like something really easy to play if somebody has never played anything before
<EriC^^> aha, how old is the motherboard?
<daftykins> not got a playstation i'm afraid (or a modern one at least :) )
<daftykins> LGA775 core 2 duo era one i put together for a client in 2009 :)
<daftykins> it lasted well!
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> cool
<daftykins> but yeah just wanted to use it as a project to learn, so i'll take the caps off - write down their values and order some more... then the real challenge begins!
<EriC^^> :D
<daftykins> think i'd rather be taught in person though
<EriC^^> about soldering?
<EriC^^> it's not very difficult, once you do a couple you'll get the hang of it
<EriC^^> i once soldered together a whole car ecu, it's a diy standalone ecu for tuning that comes as resistors,capacitors,transistors,etc and a pcb and you put it together following a guide
<EriC^^> imgur.com/a/jIa3h
<EriC^^> http://imgur.com/a/jIa3h
<EriC^^> i had never soldered before, it's really not difficult once you do a couple of them and get the hang of it
<EriC^^> i remember you have to heat up the joint, and careful not to heat up the actual electrical component, and then after it's heated up well you put some solder wire on top of the joint and it'll just melt
<EriC^^> very easy
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> these caps are getting very warm as they come off, tough to hold and pull
<daftykins> but yep getting the hang of it!
<daftykins> that ECU looks funky!
<EriC^^> yeah removing them is definitely harder than installing
<EriC^^> haha yeah
<daftykins> these through-hole ones strike me as going to be interesting to replace
<daftykins> probably have to hold the tip on the pad and heat it up, then poke the new one through the hole
<daftykins> yay just ordered 20 new ones, Â£4.65 delivered :)
<daftykins> ah-har morning paul \o
<pauljw_vm> morning daftykins o/
<pauljw_vm> everyone
<daftykins> i got my iron 8D
<pauljw_vm> :)
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/2mthR
<daftykins> already whipped them off and ordered replacements \o/
<OerHeks> i am sure it is going to fly
<daftykins> i can see some slight damage on one area where i had the iron too hot by accident, but i think it was just the kind of lacquer coating to the motherboard melting?
<pauljw_vm> that's awesome daftykins
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> no wonder TJ teased, it really is easy
<pauljw_vm> yep
<pauljw_vm> tedious at times
<daftykins> yeah holding the caps got really warm whilst trying to wiggle them off, so my thumb and forefinger hurt a bit now :P
<pauljw_vm> heheh
<EriC^^> looks good
<EriC^^> my iphone is popping off at the back more and more (4s)
<EriC^^> kind of worried it's going to explode or something :D
<daftykins> oh dear that sounds like a deformed battery
<daftykins> you should turn that off and stop using it, because yeah it could explode
<pauljw_vm> might want to be careful which pocket you carry that iphone in, EriC^^
<daftykins> capacitors dispatched already :D
<EriC^^> pauljw_vm: yeah that's a good idea
<EriC^^> for real daftykins ?
<pauljw_vm> :)
<EriC^^> crap
<daftykins> yeah i'm afraid so
<OerHeks> he made a drawing too, EriC^^ http://imgur.com/a/2mthR
<daftykins> i've got a degree in MS paint
<pauljw_vm> crapple, there, fixed it for ya, EriC^^ :D
<daftykins> XD
<EriC^^> http://imgur.com/a/eMiu5
<EriC^^> wow the webcam resolution sucks ass
<EriC^^> it was like 1mm 2 days ago, each day it's getting farther and farther away from the back
<EriC^^> damn i need it to last til the iphone 7 comes out
<OerHeks> Who you gonna call ?
<EriC^^> how big of an explosion are we talking about?
<EriC^^> xD
<EriC^^> ghost busters :D
<OerHeks> send it to lotuspsychje as 1st customer
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i've done 4's :)
 * EriC^^ puts the iphone behind the laptop screen
<daftykins> yeah that's not good, you really should switch her off
<EriC^^> i cant though
<EriC^^> i tether the internet from it
<daftykins> haha surely dealing with an electrical fire and combusting phone is more of a problem than being offline :>
<EriC^^> yeah i guess
<EriC^^> thanks for letting me know about it
<EriC^^> you saved my ass
 * EriC^^ watched some youtube videos of batteries exploding
<daftykins> there could've been a little roasted eric butt!
<EriC^^> not fun
<EriC^^> hehe
<EriC^^> now to do the sensible thing
<EriC^^> use the other laptop as a hotspot with the iphone and it in a safe place
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> nooo drive into town and get a $5 replacement ;)
<EriC^^> battery replacement?
<EriC^^> i could buy another phone
<EriC^^> i was thinking to get an iphone se for my grandma in case she needs it
<EriC^^> i was going to give her mine once i get the 7 in september but it's broken now so i figured the se would be great
<EriC^^> i could use it til september i guess
<daftykins> yeah the 4S has been abandoned for iOS too, so it's now an insecure device
<daftykins> plus i'm sure it went super slow running 9+ anyway :)
<EriC^^> yeah it's ancient now
<EriC^^> thinking about the internet though, the isp needs a couple months to come if i order dsl
<daftykins> :<
<EriC^^> maybe i can make a box and put the laptop in it with the phone and put it on the balcony?
<EriC^^> sounds stupid i can probably do that til i get the iphone se tomorrow
<EriC^^> now all i can think about is shrapnel coming at me from the iphone
<EriC^^> brb
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> poor eric, but rather he live in fear so he doesn't use it, than push it and get hurt
<pauljw_vm> yeah
<EriC^^> the lenovo laptop wouldn't make a hotspot for some reason (maybe the network card doesn't support it?)
<EriC^^> so i put the hp as the hotspot and put the iphone in a wooden closet, hehe
<daftykins> nice combustible wood :)
<EriC^^> it has a bunch of notes and books from uni too
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> <eric> i'll never need those!
<EriC^^> lol
<daftykins> *FWOOSH!*
<daftykins> rapid data and probably charging are the kinds of things that'd heat it the most
<EriC^^> hmm
<daftykins> if you do have to keep it a little longer, charging whilst switched off might be the best plan (next to not using it at all ;) )
<EriC^^> i do leave it plugged in all the time and have been using it as a hotspot
<EriC^^> it's still kind of subpar of apple though
<daftykins> well, it happens to all devices really i think
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> damn the closet, it
<EriC^^> it's still suspenseful
<EriC^^> explode already
<daftykins> little by little, the crapple product is exploding your dreams one by one
<daftykins> ;)
<EriC^^> i really want the slow motion camera on the new ones
<EriC^^> 768p@240fps
<EriC^^> pretty nice
<EriC^^> i've seen recently a nice camera i was sort of wondering to get or not, a nikon 5300 dslr, there's also a nikon 3200 and 3300, they all have the same sensor, but the 3300 has more iso whatever that is
<EriC^^> and the 5300 has more iso + a lcd screen that you can turn around and stuff, + like 40autofocus points instead of 11 for the other ones
<EriC^^> they're not really too expensive, 3200 is $430, 3300 is $535, and the 5300 is $625
<EriC^^> https://www.gadgitechstore.com/collections/digital-slr-cameras
<EriC^^> this shop seems pretty legit, we dont have many online shops in leb, haven't used it before but they have a wide variety of stuff, the only odd thing is that you get pop ups every couple of secs "bla from city blabla bought blabla some hours ago"
<EriC^^> just the first name though
<EriC^^> it's pretty effective marketing wise i guess, kind of odd though
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> on the camera's software? 0o
<EriC^^> ?
<EriC^^> no, i mean pop ups come on the site :D
<daftykins> oic
<daftykins> silly me
<EriC^^> daftykins, do you know anything about cameras?
<EriC^^> i was thinking to get the cheaper 3200 model i could use the extra $200 to buy something else instead
<EriC^^> does the iso thing make a difference?
<daftykins> nah, never found them interesting oddly enough - almost every other gadget but never cams :> just use my phones!
<daftykins> ISO rating is all about exposure for different times of day capture i think
<daftykins> my wealthy client is a huge camera buff
<EriC^^> it says Native ISO 6400, Extended to ISO 12800
<EriC^^> the other says Native ISO 12800, Extended to ISO 25600
<daftykins> o0
<EriC^^> i basically just want a nice camera to take photos sometimes of the sun and city and stuff
<daftykins> those numbers strike me as huge then, but it might be worth running by a camera person :D
<EriC^^> with the iphone camera if i press on the sun everything else gets really dark, if i press on the city, the sun becomes all just a white blur
<daftykins> mmm i get much the same with all the smartphones i've used
<EriC^^> interesting i read about iso, seems higher iso is for when you have a darker environment like you said
<EriC^^> also higher iso lets you take a picture more quickly, like if you're taking a picture of a moving animal or something so it won't be blurry
<EriC^^> but it comes at a cost, higher iso -> more noise in the picture
<EriC^^> also as you said it seems those numbers are super high, wth the guy said he uses iso 800 for fast pics and try to stick to the lowest the camera has to retain detail in the pic and less noise
<daftykins> yeah :)
<daftykins> didn't even know they went so high
<baizon> microsoft <3 https://i.imgur.com/8WKKPji.jpg
<daftykins> truth they tell
<daftykins> clean that screen :P
<DArqueBishop> Amusing. I admit I haven't seen that message on my Windows 10 boxes yet.
<DJones> I saw it once, on a desktop that was mains powered, apart from a cmos & mouse battery, no idea what was being drained
<DArqueBishop> That's a good point. It's rare that I have my Win 10 laptop on battery.
<daftykins> that old that the battery is useless, or are you damaging it from perma-tethering?
<DArqueBishop> daftykins: perma-tethering. I have it plugged into a docking station.
 * DArqueBishop 's Windows 10 laptop is work-provided and is his work PC.
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> battery death it is :)
<DArqueBishop> I can count on one hand the number of times I've needed to use it on battery this year.
<daftykins> probably better to remove it then if it's a sealed in type :)
<Bashing-om> Away for a spell - cutting grass. Be back in a few .
<Bashing-om> Hey not ^^ real bad .. back to the keyboard .
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-09
<lordievader> Good morning.
<DJones> OerHeks: I wonder whether pandaadb last comment sheds some light on their problem
<DJones> pandaadb> When I first tried to use that, someone pointed me to a different repo so i could try the latest drivers  to see if it fixex my issue
<DJones> pandaadb> DJones, I think this is the one: graphics-drivers-ubuntu-ppa-xenial.list
<OerHeks> back
<OerHeks> yes, that 364 driver is in that repo solely
<OerHeks> but this is skylake, iirc
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<OerHeks> morning
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks :p
<lotuspsychje> this is why i have an ubuntu phone: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37005226
<OerHeks> this is why i have no smartphone ... wait .. same url
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: you sure you dont hunt pokemons?
<lotuspsychje> the whole city is looking for them here
<OerHeks> I think it is not softwarelevel.
<DArqueBishop> It sounds like that's less an issue with Android than it is an issue with Qualcomm.
<lotuspsychje> DArqueBishop: should be tested if a phone with same chip, running ubuntu also would be vulnerable
<DArqueBishop> Looks like my wife's phone wouldn't be affected.
<OerHeks> you can check it indeed, http://blog.checkpoint.com/2016/08/07/quadrooter/
<OerHeks> .. heh, from google-play
<lotuspsychje> touch cant download from google play store :p
<lotuspsychje> we are saved, Bashing-om is there
<lotuspsychje> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/08/04/use-any-app-from-your-ubuntu-phone-or-desktop/
<Bashing-om> Well .. Not much in my life line .. but I will throw it out when I can . ( I noted you were on .. all the better !)
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Humm " But it does work, courtesy of Mir/XMir and Libertine. && But first, please note that at this time, display and use of X apps on an external monitor is only available on the Pro5/M10 and on future devices. (BQ 4.5/E5 and Meizu MX4 do not support this feature.). More reading to be done .
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> and bq devices are sold out : (
<lotuspsychje> not good for my business
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, buy this one, http://www.marktplaats.nl/a/telecommunicatie/mobiele-telefoons-overige-merken/m1060375118-bq-aquarius-e4-5-ubuntu-phone.html
<lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/08/bq-say-dont-plans-new-ubuntu-phones
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: already got the 4.5 for myself tnx
<lotuspsychje> nite nite guys
<lotuspsychje> have a good one
<Bashing-om> Gonna go let the landscape pruner beat up on me some more .. be back in a spell .
<ralpho> opened bash in windows installed lamp and served my music installed console apps lie irssi everything worked.
<ralpho> like
<daftykins> that was nice and pointless
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-10
<Bashing-om> Back .. not too much the worse for the beating . round 2 for Tuesday, completed .
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> congrats!
<Bashing-om> Yeah, uh huh ..pleased got that much more done .. 'til next Tuesday .
<daftykins> did you catch my success snaps? :)
<daftykins> yay soldering \o/
<Bashing-om> You betcha ! .. Once you done it a time or 2 .. piece of cake . Huh ?
<daftykins> absolutely!
<daftykins> now i'll have to wander the house to find things to fix ;)
<Bashing-om> OH Boy .. look at the monster you have created .
<daftykins> we can rebuild said monster, faster... stronger... better...
<Bashing-om> Now .. just get it to serve the tea .
<daftykins> mmm i should buy milk tomorrow and get back on the tea drinking
<daftykins> #1 mission!
<Bashing-om> See, I am good yet for something !
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> cutting the grass, too :>
<Bashing-om> Oh well ..some may think of cutting grass as good ..  It be a chore that has to be done .. else you get frowned upon .
<daftykins> yep the wrath of mrs.bashing would result!
<daftykins> i must put my head down for the night, g'night sir \o
<Bashing-om> Nighty nite ..
<ducasse> morning all
<daftykins> hey ducasse \o
<daftykins> what's new?
<OerHeks> too small for me .. http://www.zdnet.com/article/worlds-largest-ssd-revealed-as-seagate-unveils-60tb-monster/
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> gm BluesKaj o/
<BluesKaj> Hey all
<BluesKaj> hi daftykins
<daftykins> did you catch my soldering pics? i replaced those blown caps yesterday :D
<OerHeks> hello daftykins BluesKaj
<daftykins> sir \o
<BluesKaj> hi OerHeks
<BluesKaj> no daftykins, I didn't see your solder pics
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/halRm \o/
<BluesKaj> if you soldered all those pins , very impressive :-)
<daftykins> hehe nah just the single capacitor in the closest corner to begin with
<daftykins> then the 3 pairs of legs together in the center
<BluesKaj> i see , looks good
<daftykins> thanks :>
<daftykins> and it didn't release the magic smoke on powering up!
<BluesKaj> I haven't soldered much the last few yrs, just some loudspeaker connections and xover networks
<daftykins> ooh
<daftykins> i wish i could have made them look as good as the originals XD i figure that's machine done though?
<daftykins> for the mass production on a motherboard
<BluesKaj> hey pauljw_vm
<pauljw_vm> mornin' BluesKaj :)
<pauljw_vm> Hi everyone
<daftykins> hi sir \o
<pauljw_vm> o/
<EriC^^> afternoon everyone
<daftykins> hey sir \o how goes the explodey phone? :)
<daftykins> (back in a few, quick post office trip)
<EriC^^> hey daftykins :D
<EriC^^> ok :)
<pauljw_vm> hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi pauljw_vm
<pauljw_vm> :)
<EriC^^> :)
<pauljw_vm> how's everything?  phone hanging in there?
<EriC^^> it's good
<daftykins> :D
<EriC^^> i bought another phone
<EriC^^> samsung j1 ace
<pauljw_vm> ah, good deal
<EriC^^> $100
<pauljw_vm> :)
<EriC^^> :)
<daftykins> blech non-playing clients, what a pain
<daftykins> *paying
<daftykins> wow what a bad typo
<BluesKaj-pi> I paid only 100bucks CDN for an alcatel mini ...mainly use it as a phone, altho I have used it on the internet a few times thru wifi.. data usage is turned off, only for emergencies which I dont think will be necessary very often
<BluesKaj-pi> pay as you go
<OerHeks> great, LO snap 64 bit, http://www.libreoffice.org/download/snap/
<Bashing-om> Some testing efforts to get libreoffice off the ground : https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2327088&page=2 .
<OerHeks> nice post, thanks!
<Bashing-om> Snaps, the wave of the future .. but do I want to learn it now ? Now that is the question .
<daftykins> mmm tough one
<Bashing-om> I got on my learning plate - systemd - that will be more than enough to digest .
<daftykins> mmm that's on mine too
<Bashing-om> Fortunately ... we have a few years to digest systemd . I am in no big hurry .
<daftykins> i had to restart a service the other day so did a quick google cheat :>
<daftykins> i was running the old commands but nothing was reported, so i couldn't tell what was happening
<Bashing-om> Yeah. going to have our trials determining the interfacing . systemd/upstart/ what in the world is the kernel doing now !
<daftykins> :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-11
<pauljw_vm> gnite all
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Hiya ! .. Just about my end time though .
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om how was the night been
<Bashing-om> Oh ,, slow , but good .. Mostly well behaved .
<lotuspsychje> great :p
<ducasse> morning all!
<Bashing-om> Morning crew gathering up . Coffee is on the house, cookies are extra .
<ducasse> hi Bashing-om - still up?
<Bashing-om> Awhhh ..just leaving .. got slow .
<ducasse> i noticed, it will probably pick up over the next hour or so.
<Bashing-om> me eyes will not wait .. got to lay it down for the duration . Get prepared for the next time .
<Bashing-om> On that note, G Nite . Yall take care if things .
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<DArqueBishop> Morning.
<pauljw_vm> Hi everyone
<OerHeks> hi paul
<pauljw_vm> :)
<OerHeks> aai want to ride my bicycle!
<Bashing-om> Long as your legs are not broke, I guess you can ride your bicycle; How you will manage IRC on the bike .. that is another matter .
<OerHeks> Well, we drive on the right side of the road.
<OerHeks> and it is raining all day
<OerHeks> come on, managing irc, helping mint users and polling ..
<Bashing-om> Well Rain, is a good excuse to stay on IRC ... even with all the non-OS support request and all the trolls .. still things do pop up of interest . Never can tell when or what .
<OerHeks> Sure, i think we still learn every day, such odd request that makes no sense .. and turn out nifty.
<Bashing-om> My Basset hound that had cancer .. passed on this morning .. just found her . Will be doing the burial thing .
<OerHeks> Oh that girl that went missing for a few hours??
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, sad to hear that :-(
<Bashing-om> I was concerned that she was going to suffer - had made arrangements with the vet to have her put away - Anyway . she did not suffer long, she quit eating 2 days agao, and last might would not take her favorite treat - hot dog - . We knew then she was in trouble for sure . Did not respond to medication .
<Bashing-om> Verry hot out, I will wait 'til this evening to finsih digging her hole .
<Bashing-om> Gonna go dig a bit .. be back later .
<daftykins> ah the ol' tunnel to China plan!
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-12
<Bashing-om> OK. back, duty done . She was a loyal devoted loving dog .. that is now at rest .
<daftykins> oh i'm sad to hear that :( that only happened today?
<daftykins> er sorry to hear that even
<Bashing-om> Yeah .. terminal cancer . I had hoped the steroid pills would continue to allow her more time . But, no - the vet called her time right .
<daftykins> ah, then a sweet escape from suffering perhaps
<Bashing-om> Well .. I am thankful the sufferring was short . Till the last she was still snapping up her hot dog treats . Responded well to petting .. I think last night was her saying good bye when she came for her petting .
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> they definitely know things they could never share, pets
<Bashing-om> well. that trial of the fret and worry over her feeling so bad - and knowing she was going to die - We did all we could to make her happy; all the way up to the end -  is over now .  She deserved a decent burial .
<daftykins> sounds good to me
<daftykins-> totally forgot about this months' patch tuesday!
<Bashing-om> Windows, outta sight out of mind .
<daftykins-> kernel reboots too :)
<daftykins-> two sides of the same coin
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> how has the evening been Bashing-om ?
<Bashing-om> quiet, not much going on lotuspsychje .
<lotuspsychje> ok :p
<Bashing-om> Maybe will pick up . help ya get your day started .
<Bashing-om> Too slow to hold my attention. Going horizontal for the duration .. catch ya later .
<ducasse> morning all
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<OerHeks> oh, it is weekend \o/
<DJones> OerHeks: Being on long term sick I don't even know what day it is
<OerHeks> Friday, 18:07 here
<DJones> Apart from the nagging from my wife that its my 50th birthday tomorow,.....As if I care
<OerHeks> hihi turning 49 monday
<OerHeks> 7x7
<DJones> Heh
<DJones> I'd rather have my health back than be having seizures/blackouts & now pneumonia after a fall during a blackout breaking ribs
<OerHeks> ouch
<DJones> Thats on the upside :)
<DJones> Ah well, keep going
<daftykins> DJones: :( nasty
<daftykins> fall breaking ribs? sounds all too familiar
<DJones> Been in hopsital twice after falls while unconcious, broken ankle, broken ribs, things happen, could be better
<DJones> But,get back on the horse, worst that can happen is I'll fall off
<daftykins> it was quite the experience, for me
<DJones> Was that you bike accident?
<daftykins> yep
<DJones> Thought so
<daftykins> and yeah, only thing to do
<daftykins> still no memory of it, come to think of it the 2 year anniversary of it is coming up on the 28th
<DJones> Trouble is, I'm married to a nurse, so not allowed to do anything, can't ride my bike, can't drive (doctors orders), can't use machinery etc...
<DJones> Can understand the not driving, may blackout or have a seizure while at the wheel & could kill somebody else, bike - I'm not sure about
<daftykins> well even falling from stationary on a bike could surely cause you more harm
<DJones> Appreciate that, just feel like I need to do some exercise
<tgm4883> lol
<DJones> Had a stress echo cardiogram the other week and couldn't complete it, that tells me I need to improve my fitness
<daftykins> ah har
<daftykins> more dog walking? :)
<DJones> I wish, Can't manage it, short walks only for now
<DJones> 1/2 mile leaves me exhausted
<tgm4883> "The driver WORKS. I've got FGLRX on 16.04. Why won't you help me the driver works. Here look at my logs to prove it"   "Uh, that says it's using radeon, not FGLRX"
<DJones> But speaking of which, time for a dog walk
<DArqueBishop> "I'm not asking for support! I just need help!"
<daftykins> lul
<daftykins> DArqueBishop: that an #ubuntu special?
<tgm4883> We've got a rule in another channel that I'm part of that I think applies here as well. "If you're asking for help in this channel, answer questions that are asked of you and follow the instructions. It's highly likely that the people helping you know more than you do"
<daftykins> tgm4883: :D
<DArqueBishop> daftykins: yeah, the same person tgm4883 was talking about.
<daftykins> it's always amusing when one of those types swears blind a fact, then a log immediately disproves that
<tgm4883> someone should make that a factoid "If you're asking for help, we know more than you do so answer questions that you are asked"
<tgm4883> There isn't really a non-condescending way to say that, but it needs to be said sometimes
<tgm4883> How about  a !ronswanson  "I know more than you"
<daftykins> i feel like someone deleted the AB factoid, too
<daftykins> or i just forgot the trigger
<daftykins> !ab
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-13
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<ducasse> morning all
<ducasse> is grub-efi-amd64-signed suddenly deprecated? this morning's update removed it.
<OerHeks> ducasse, ???
<OerHeks> any w10 anniversary update perhaps ??
<ducasse> i have no idea why it was removed, and i can't find any mention of it online. other grub packages were updated as well, but there were no conflicts or anything.
<OerHeks> no w10 on that machine? i ask, as there was a message going round about that update removing stuff
<ducasse> no windows at all anywhere in the house :) besides, that mentioned removing partitions, not individual packages. no, this was part of a regular update.
<OerHeks> oke :-)
<ducasse> should mention; this machine uses -proposed, so the grub packages could be from there. i'll check.
<ducasse> yeah, grub-efi-amd64 is 2.02~beta2-36ubuntu3.3 from proposed.
<OerHeks> :-)
<ducasse> are there any appropriate channels to ask if this could be a packaging bug?
<OerHeks> #ubuntu-packaging ?
<ducasse> thanks, i'll try there.
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<OerHeks> hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey OerHeks
<pauljw_vm> Hi everyone
<ducasse> \o
<BluesKaj> 'Morning pauljw_vm, ducasse
<pauljw_vm> hey BluesKaj :)
<pauljw_vm> ducasse o/
<BluesKaj> finally a cool off here...rain and 22C/72F
<ducasse> how is everyone today?
<BluesKaj> fine here ducasse, and you?
<pauljw_vm> good so far here, but it's early yet.
<ducasse> fine thanks, having a very quiet weekend.
#ubuntu-discuss 2016-08-14
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Any ideas http://pastebin.com/bgBW4K5U . 404s on xenial-update .. ping is good .
<Bashing-om> wb pavlushka - belated welcome !
<pavlushka> Bashing-om: you are still up!! oh my?
<pavlushka> Bashing-om: and thanks!
<Bashing-om> pavlushka: Well ,, about to wind it down . Kinda stuck on one .. and want to see how it works out in the channel .
<pavlushka> Bashing-om: gotta run, my day just started.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<baizon> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: my unity greeter issue is solved, i had an .svg logo and it needed to be a full wallpaper
<lotuspsychje> hey baizon
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Great .. where there are solutions, there are no problems . huh ?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> !apt
<ubot5> APT is the Advanced Package Tool, which together with dpkg forms the basic Ubuntu package management toolkit. Short apt-get manual: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGetHowto - Also see !Synaptic (Gnome), !Muon (KDE) or !Apper (KDE)
<lotuspsychje> !apt-get
<lotuspsychje> dax is sleeping :p
<Bashing-om> Alrite, getting to slow for me to keep up .. may have to re-tire .
<lotuspsychje> laterz Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> habe a good one
<Bashing-om> I gonna hang for a smoke or so yet . see what develops .
<ducasse> morning!
<lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
<ducasse> hi lotuspsychje - everything good?
<lotuspsychje> yes mate, what about you ducasse ?
<ducasse> good, thanks. how's your business getting on?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: still awaiting the website :p
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: but as it is part time business start, its ok for now
<ducasse> you're not in a hurry? :)
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: well i only want to make comercial after website is done
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: as its the most important to showoff right
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: the website admin has also alot of work so, cant rush it
<ducasse> i understand that. is he doing this as a favor or something?
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: no its a paying job :p around 1500 $
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: but he's linux minded, thats why i chosen him
<lotuspsychje> but bbl guys breakfast :p
<ducasse> enjoy :)
<lotuspsychje> have a nice sunday guys
<Bashing-om> Sunday Morning coming down . The day crew can handle it . G Nite guys .
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<OerHeks> a poor student with an Ultrabook ..
<EriC^^> lol
<EriC^^> are those expensive?
<OerHeks> ultrabook sounds like a recent machine
<EriC^^> yeah
<OerHeks> broken ssd, RMA!
<OerHeks> Oh wait, we here in NL have a funny law, you may expect to run such computer for 3 years at least, so the vendor guarantee for 1 year is not legal
<OerHeks> he has to repair it :-D
<ducasse> when people come with unrealistic expectations like "full-blown desktop install in <3gb" i tend to just ignore them.
<OerHeks> 3 gb .. that made me wonder too...
<ducasse> you can get an install in less, but what are you going to use it for with no local storage? it would basically be a thin client.
<OerHeks> oke, it is a weekend-and-i-have-nothing to-do-issue
<EriC^^> i was thinking maybe he wanted a sort of plug and play live usb or something
<OerHeks> The best problems come up from Mo-Fri ..
<EriC^^> or he's very poor, his hdd broke and needs a temp fix
<EriC^^> new ssd costs like $80 for 256gb though
<Ben64> trying to get a full functioning desktop system from a minimal install isn't easy for a beginner
<OerHeks> He's better of with a live + persistance for now
<Ben64> indeed
<OerHeks> â¬37 euro .. http://www.computerstunt.nl/onderdeel/6185/tablets/4k-kodi-tvbox-mini-pc-android-5.1-a53-pentacore-gpu-hdmi-demo-ex-html
<OerHeks> i was walking through a cheap 2nd hand stuff website ..
<Ben64> nice
<Ben64> does h265
<OerHeks> they used to have 32 gb ssd's for 20 euro or so
<Ben64> beware with cheap flash
<Ben64> could be fake
<OerHeks> i had plans for 6 of them in raid, but then again, i rather would have a HW raid controller with it
<JanC> why would you want a HW RAID controller?
<OerHeks> just for fun, i have no experience with soft/hw raid
<OerHeks> but those 32 gb are sold out :-(
<JanC> cheap HW RAID controllers are worse than software RAID
<JanC> just use linux MD software RAID or ZFS RAIDZ
<OerHeks> ofcourse i want a pretty controller
<JanC> be sure to buy two  :)
<OerHeks> I'll find them one of these days ..
<JanC> because if it breaks, you'll possibly need an identical one to read your data...
<OerHeks> top tip, JanC !
<daftykins> JanC: that's a really weak argument
<JanC> what is?
<daftykins> requiring backup hardware controllers in the event of failure being a negative against hardware RAID
<JanC> it's a pretty good argument, especially if this is for personal use
<daftykins> no it's not - you still need a great number of SATA ports for a software setup :) in which case if your motherboard goes, or a SATA HBA card, you still need replacements
<daftykins> they may be more general purpose but you'd still be up a creek without a paddle
<JanC> but you can use whatever replacement then
<daftykins> totally worthless
<daftykins> dead hardware is dead hardware :)
<JanC> dead hardware that can't be replaced is worse than dead hardware that can't be replaced
<daftykins> i think you meant a 'can' there - but that's total rubbish again because i don't see why you think you can't get hold of a given adapter at all past a certain point :)
<JanC> and unless you have pretty expensive hardware RAID, it doesn't really have much or even any advantage anyway
<daftykins> yeah you're preaching to the choir there, have you ever even dealt with hardware RAID?
<daftykins> i haven't lost a single adapter
<daftykins> when there's a failure it's ace having your hand held by a decent hardware controller than sat tearing your hair out crying over Linux logs :D
<JanC> I've never had to tear my hair out  :)
<OerHeks> :-)
<daftykins> can't have many setups under your command then ;)
<BluesKaj-pi> my hair just disappears over the yrs :-)
<daftykins> hehe
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-07
<oerheks> yay, Joey used my tip :-) http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/08/fix-google-gpg-key-linux-repository-error
<oerheks> but not the remove the old key part..
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Need then to ping on Joey to finish the good work :D
<oerheks> well, nomally one could revoke the key from sources menu
<oerheks> but that apt command is fancy :-D
<oerheks> .. and he did not mention that the key is revoked after 10 years
<oerheks> ...which is a milestone
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Let's face it -- oerheks does it better :)
<oerheks> *everybody* does it better than oerheks
<oerheks> :-D
<Bashing-om> nooooo ........
<Bashing-om> oerheks: is psychoticwarrior giving out bumm advise again ?
<somesh> helloo, i was working with arp command but after some time it is cached and i do not see new updates.
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> Hey lordievader, fine thanks, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<ducasse> \o lordievader, BluesKaj
<lordievader> Hey ducasse, how are you doing?
<BluesKaj> o/ ducasse :-)
<ducasse> ok, thanks - same with you i hope?
<lordievader> Yes, I am doing allright.
<lordievader> Do you use tmux a lot?
<ducasse> lordievader: tmux, yes
<lordievader> Then you might be interested in tmuxinator, makes static configs easy/
<ducasse> i've noticed the package in the repos, never tried it.
<lordievader> Lets you write a yaml config file on how the window and pane layout should be, what command should be running where, etc.
<lordievader> For static-ish setups it seems quite useful, only started using it today ;)
<ducasse> hmm, intersting :)
<ducasse> "hi, i've deleted python and my system is borked"
<ducasse> you don't say...
<lordievader> Apt ain't python right? In gentoo you would have a problem, portage, the package manager, is python.
<lordievader> Though, I suppose that if you run Gentoo you would be able to compile your own Python.
<ducasse> not apt itself, afaik, but several of the apt-* tools are, i think.
<ducasse> got it working again, but why do something like that (apt purge python) on a remote system with no snapshots/backups?
<ducasse> i wonder what pacman is written in...
<ducasse> c++, it seems
<BluesKaj> heh, what about the guy who deleted /usr/lib and asked how to get it back ? :-)
<ducasse> i remember him, this summer has been fun that way :)
<lordievader> Nuking tar/ar is fun too :)
<ducasse> my favorite is still libc, though :)
<lordievader> Hahaha
<lordievader> I did that once, wanted to downgrade libc for some reason.
<lordievader> Believe it was a testbox, so I was like. Meh, worst that could happen is that it breaks.
<ducasse> libpcre is also fun, amazing how much needs regular expressions :)
<BluesKaj> I've deleted a whole dir wuth rm -rf while tryin to just remove a folder in the dir , with a slip of a finger on the KB
<lordievader> Running 'rm -rf /' is so much fun. `ls`: `command 'ls' not found`.
<BluesKaj> mucked up the test OS , but I have my /home dir backed up on the outboard drive
<JanC> lordievader: unless you were running a shell with a built-in ls  :)
<lordievader> True, I thought my shell didn't have it, last time I tried.
<nicomachus> ugh. looks like Chrome screwed up their repo again. Pubkeys are bad.
<oerheks> known issue nicomachus
<oerheks> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/08/fix-google-gpg-key-linux-repository-error
<nicomachus> yea I know, they just seem to do it a lot. This is at least the 3rd occasion I remember.
<nicomachus> in the last year.
<oerheks> and to remove the key: sudo apt-key del 7FAC5991
<oerheks> yeah,it happened before, key expired after 10 years?
<JanC> well, what's the point of a signing key if you have to re-download it all the time?
<oerheks> hmm.. they are hacked?
<oerheks> :-D
<JanC> if their servers are compromised the hacker could possibly have replaced that key file too, so...
<JanC> is the key signed?
<nicomachus> JanC: here's the warning: https://paste.ubuntu.com/25263594/
<JanC> that doesn't say much about whether the key is signed  :)
<oerheks> https://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/
<nicomachus> oerheks: instead of deleting hte key, that omgubuntu article has me downloading a new one.
<oerheks> that is oke, nicomachus , but the old key remains
<oerheks> you can revoke it in sources, or this prof. command line
<nicomachus> cool.
<nicomachus> now to mess around with how to make gifs from this longggg video I have.
<oerheks> hmmm .. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/08/green-recorder-3-0-update
<nicomachus> I think I'm just gonna snip the video down to a manageable size and use an online tool I'm familiar with. Imgur's Video to Gif or Gfycat.
<nicomachus> but this looks interesting, oerheks
<oerheks> yeah, i thought you were reading that already
<nicomachus> I like the looks of Peek too
<nicomachus> (linked in the article you posted: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/peek-gif-recorder-1-0-flatpak)
<immu> yo
<nicomachus> I do like that omgubuntu has started putting `apt` in their install instructions instead of `apt-get`.
<nicomachus> They used to always say `apt-get update` then new line `apt-get install <package>`, but now they've started using `apt update && apt install <package>` which is just so much cleaner and better.
<immu> nicomachus, yup
<oerheks> i started to use apt full-upgrade standard, should write an alias for that
<oerheks> sudo doitnow
<immu> oerheks, lovely
<oerheks> hi immu
<immu> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/08/ubuntu-moves-window-controls-right
<immu> any comments
<oerheks> the controls were static due to mir/unity8 development, i thinkit is oke to release that again
<immu> they are moving back to right
<oerheks> from apple-side to windows-side .. i hope gnome-tweak does give a choise
<nicomachus> oerheks: gnome tweak doesn't give a choice, but dconf editor can be used to switch them to either side.
<nicomachus> org > gnome > desktop > wm > preferences
<oerheks> ah, the old way, ':close,minimize,maximize'
<nicomachus> yep.
<oerheks> or ':close,minimize,close,maximize,close' :-D
<nicomachus> http://i.imgur.com/Kyyed5B.png
<nicomachus> `button-layout`
<nicomachus> that's mine denoting left buttons.
<nicomachus> hmmm.... I'v lost ssh access to one of my home machines.... No route to host. that's not good.
<nicomachus> I can reach one, but I can usually then kinda daisy-chain around the network. not working now.
<nicomachus> "I'm running an outdated, unsupported version of Ubuntu. Lemme just paste my (root!) username and password into this publicly logged channel to try to fix it"
 * nicomachus slams his head against his desk
<oerheks> silly monday
<nicomachus> I never could get hte hang of Mondays
<DArqueBishop> With that simple of a password, chances are it was compromised well before now, especially if it was on a public IP.
<nicomachus> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<nicomachus> she couldn't connect over SSH, so hopefully no one else could either. ufw saves the day again.
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-08
<Bashing-om> nacc: Are you awake ? Are you where you can assist me on what looks like a packaging error ? IRT tcikoritys in main .
<nacc> Bashing-om: yep, looking at it now :)
<Bashing-om> nacc: You the man !
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<EriC^^> how are you?
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^  morning!
<lotuspsychje> alot of work EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: did you see valerian?
<EriC^^> nope
<EriC^^> it's good?
<lotuspsychje> not seen myself
<lotuspsychje> its now in theaters
<lotuspsychje> luc besson movie
<EriC^^> aha
<EriC^^> did you see war for planet of apes?
<EriC^^> waiting for it to get torrented
<lotuspsychje> not yet
<xangua> EriC^^: yes
<xangua> Kind of makes a little homenaje to the very first planet of the apes
<EriC^^> xangua: cool
<EriC^^> cant wait
<lotuspsychje> looks pretty neat
<lotuspsychje> http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/trailers/874197-the-dark-tower-teaser-shows-us-a-connected-kingdom#/slide/1
<lotuspsychje> check this out
<lotuspsychje> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZOhAW8f85c
<lordievader> good morning
<lordievader> It's okay.
<lordievader> The fifth element is better.
<lordievader> Hmm, homeserver catching up, makes interesting conversations XD
<BluesKaj> howdy all
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj, how are you doing?
<BluesKaj> hi lordievader, fine here thanks, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here, working on some vector graphics :)
<BluesKaj> vector graphics , in what context?
<lordievader> It is for a presentation.
 * BluesKaj nods
<lordievader> Wanted some nice scalable images :)
<oerheks> what is this, nicomachus, when it says 'unsupported' everybody wants it?
<nicomachus> Â¯\_(ã)_/Â¯
<nicomachus> I used to think the latest release was the best release. Gotta be cutting edge, ya know? I've learned since then.
<oerheks> she is trolling..
<nicomachus> gotta be...
<oerheks> m not allowed to run anything newer that 14.04 LTS .. but php7
<nicomachus> I'm curious how he got mySQL 7 on 14.04 when current version for that release is like 5.x
<nicomachus> without screwing up sources.list royally
<oerheks> well, we wait and see the update results
<nicomachus> can't figure out to paste the damn output... ugh. someone hired this person for a CS job?
<oerheks> he has been tons of times before,..
<nicomachus> got some new business cards today and they put my middle initial this time. Adds a certain fanciness to it...
<nacc> nicomachus: super fancy :)
<nicomachus> We got rid of all of our fax lines so they ordered new cards for EVERYONE just to drop the fax line from them.
<nacc> lol
<nicomachus> And they always order me like, 2000. I've never gone through 500 before they end up ordering new ones.
<nicomachus> very financially conservative, as you can see.
<nicomachus> did TBotNik really just say they're working on a prod/dev server?
<oerheks> yeah, i guess so
<nicomachus> wow.
<nicomachus> I hope it's not a high-value one...
<nicomachus> too many trying to help one user.... ends up asking oerheks for output of update && upgrade. lol
<oerheks> heh
<oerheks> yeah, psychotic-help is really great.
<nicomachus> I love that you gave it to him anyway.
<oerheks> oh rory, he mixed up names, happens to mee much often
<nacc> in case others didn't see it, we did get some clarification in #ubuntu-server on hwe on server. while desktop does seem to auto-choose hwe stack if you install the latest ISOs, server does not
<nacc> yet another differnce, and can be a major difference in experience if you install desktop vs. install server then apt install desktop
<EriC^^> interesting stuff nacc
<nacc> I haven't actually verified it's true myself, but one user did earlier today and I looked at the seeds and see no mention of hwe there
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: wine32 win64 packages . new to me ! " sysop@x1604:~$ apt list wine32 >> Listing... Done " not in 16.04 .
<nacc> Bashing-om: wine32 and wine64 exist in 17.04+
<Bashing-om> nacc: Ho Kay - Just did not want to hazard to guess - and to lazy to check on a wild guess :(
<daftykins> hmm i'm not so sure of that one, i always hung onto release.version.1 media so i had the initial kernel ones for future
<nacc> Bashing-om: np :)
<daftykins> (for desktop and server media)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-09
<nicomachus> well, about to dive into the firewall on my htpc. wish me luck.
<oerheks> 16.04?
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: Tie a 2X4 with a long rope :)
<nicomachus> good thinking.
<oerheks> i would do a mustang with hoodclips, firewall
<nicomachus> well, I can't even reach the machine yet. I may have to actually do it from there...
<Bashing-om> but Paul would use a Charger :)
<oerheks> oh right
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: When it is stuck you want that 4:11 traction from the Charger to PULL .
<nicomachus> I'm confused.
<Bashing-om> nicomachus: No wonder " dive into the firewall on my htpc " . We help pull you out :)
<nicomachus> well idk what I did to it. I tried using a script to set up a killswitch if a VPN was disconnected and idk if it just trashed all my iptables rules or what. I can't SSH into it, even from local network.
<Bashing-om> Code Blue and attempt to resuscitate ?
<nicomachus> nuke and pave
<nicomachus> ?
<Bashing-om> Nnooo .. Let's not consider a ressurection - just yet . Fibulation or organ transplants ?
<nicomachus> i'm in over my head 99% of the time when it comes to networking issues. Almost seems easier to backup and reinstall at this point.
<Bashing-om> Well, yeah . sometimes that is the fastest . Sometimes not the solution . I recall one time 3 days solid effort to find a bent pin on the NIC .
<nicomachus> I can't even *ping* this machine.
<nicomachus> which means icmp got disallowed somehow too.
<nicomachus> oh boy
<nicomachus> ohhhhh wow.
<nicomachus> my dhcp settings got flushed... the internal IP changed. fml.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> o/ lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> all ok there?
<Bashing-om> Too slow . Ya need to "wake em up " :P
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> first a big coffee
<Bashing-om> Lubricate the synapts. Will go much better :)
<Bashing-om> (also known as motivational fluid )
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-needs-your-help-to-finalize-the-unity-to-gnome-shell-transition-517331.shtml
<lotuspsychje> free pizza!
<Bashing-om> No pizza for me ; As I think I fall short " experienced GNOME Shell and GTK themers, CSS experts, as well as people who are very good at identifying issues " . Think that might be a short list ?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> morning guys
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: WB ;)
<EriC^^> what you guys up to
<EriC^^> pizza and stuff
<EriC^^> yum
<lotuspsychje> gotta go work soon :p
<EriC^^> :D
<EriC^^> lotuspsychje: yesterday i found some kind of heaven
<EriC^^> it turns out, google isn't putting all the search results back when i search, i tried duckduckgo.com and *BAM*
<EriC^^> torrent heaven
<EriC^^> i found a site zooqle.com it has a lot of movies and other stuff
<lotuspsychje> cool
<EriC^^> it's crazy man, all this time i've been putting stuff and inurl:pdf for instance etc and i get nothing back
<EriC^^> i thought the warez world had gotten shit, it's google!
<EriC^^> there's war for the planet of apes there, going to d/l today
<lotuspsychje> cool, lemme know if its good
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> any secret recipes you've learned where you work?
<EriC^^> i bake stuff sometimes, recently discovered eclaires, pastry cream and tarts, easy and good
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: no everything is from their ideas
<EriC^^> does your gf like baking?
<lotuspsychje> sometimes yes
<EriC^^> nice
<EriC^^> been making sluchies like crazy lately
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> i love cream filled deserts :p
<EriC^^> oh yeah :D
<EriC^^> it hits the spot :D
<EriC^^> i think i ate like 12 eclaires last time and later at night i was thinking damn these eclaires arent good they hurt the stomach
<EriC^^> haha i just put 1+1 together, i ate like 24 or something
<lotuspsychje> lolll
<EriC^^> i made a batch, had pastry cream left over them made another later in the afternoon
<EriC^^> they're very easy to make and they turn out just like the ones you buy
<EriC^^> the only shitty part is you have to make pastry cream, and also eclaires, so 2 separate stuff
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<EriC^^> the sluchies are nice and easy
<EriC^^> just need a mixer that can crush ice
<EriC^^> blueberry juice with it is pretty awesome, there's also red watermelon plus lemon's juice
<lotuspsychje> mmmm
<lotuspsychje> we have a lotta cakes at work
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: they all baked at a big central baker industry
<lotuspsychje> then distributed to all shops
<EriC^^> ah i see
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: cakes are motsly biologic, but heavy for eating
<lotuspsychje> dark heavy chocolat etc
<EriC^^> yeah that's true
<EriC^^> how's the shop going?
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: im at 10 invoices atm
<EriC^^> great!
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: slowly growing stable :p
<EriC^^> cool
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i hope to merge with 18.04 gnome
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: new orders with newly ubuntu
<EriC^^> yup gotta keep it fresh
<lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i think final 17.10 might look like unity afterall
<lotuspsychje> as they working at a sort of dock
<EriC^^> nice
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hi EriC^^
<nicomachus> TJ-!
<nicomachus> hi!
<TJ-> Hey! long time no be here :D I had forgotten the name of the program I used for IRC, and only muscle memory is allowing me to remember the key sequences to press
<oerheks> wb TJ-
<TJ-> only dropped in to try to get some help with lineageos
<TJ-> How is everyone getting on?
<oerheks> holliday time, easy peasy
<TJ-> I'm fighting high winds and far too much rain whilst trying to install a new roof!
<TJ-> Oh, and trying to get a 15km wifi link up to bring a VDSL connection in
<nicomachus> well, that's just about the last 2 things you want when installing a roof.
<TJ-> Literally got the roof tied down with rope right now, parts already blew off once today
<oerheks> hmmmm jdk 9 is out http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/jdk9-dev/2017-August/005940.html
<leftyfb> oerheks: I'm confused. oracle-java9-installer has been available from the webupd8team/java/ubuntu ppa for a long time now
<TJ-> That's the Oracle one though, isn't it, not the OpenJDK one?
<leftyfb> oh, right
<TJ-> Oracle's contains proprietary code
<leftyfb> how is openjdk compared to oracle these days? Has it surpassed oracle?
<leftyfb> my understanding is that most of the original Sun projects have been left pretty stagnant
<oerheks> i see no readon to use oracle blobs, but some say it makes a little difference
<oerheks> c/reason
<nacc> lol
<nacc> what a waste of time! :/
<Bashing-om> nacc: and Casteil wonders why his systen is broke "meh, I don't have time for this' :(
<nacc> yeah
<nacc> although if it's just a headless irc bouncer, just reimage it
<Bashing-om> nacc: Ya got a bit of time for explanation IRT git install method ?
<nacc> Bashing-om: sure
<Bashing-om> Not knowing nada of snap . what is the advantage of installing git " sudo snap install --classic git-ubuntu " ?
<nacc> leaving aside classic for a moment
<nacc> as the owner of the application in question
<nacc> I can specify exactly what version of every dependency should be used by my snap
<nacc> because all of my dependencies ship in the snap
<nacc> (a snap is a squashfs image)
<nacc> so as long as my PATH and PYTHONPATH, etc. are set correctly (to refer to paths in my snap, which are well-defined by snapd), then I control *exactly* how my snap runs
<nacc> on every system it is running on
<nacc> and it no longer matters what version of, e.g., git, Ubuntu ships with
<nacc> I have my own
<nacc> and also means you don't need to install git on your system, the snap has its own
<nacc> In confined snaps that's a hard requirement (they can't actually see the system filesystem)
<nacc> In a classic snap, they are more like regular debs and they can use system-installed stuff. I'm trying to avoid that, just for my own sanity (it means my test matrix is exactly what I build on, and nothign else)
<nacc> gawd, how useless would ssh be if you could only ssh once per-user, per-host??
<Bashing-om> nacc: Great I be convinced of snap . Time to get my feet wet with snap packaging as that is going to be the future .
<nacc> Bashing-om: it makes a *ton* of sense (i think the problem they are trying to solve is the same as flatpak) for upstream projects
<nacc> Bashing-om: for end-user applications
<Bashing-om> nacc: I will see what I can learn . See what the water feels like 1st . git is a great way to start .
<nacc> Bashing-om: and tbh, i'm not using snap optimally -- because i'm still a relative noob python developer, so we're not yet structure in a way that can use the python plugin to just "build" our snap
<nacc> Bashing-om: so instead, we copy it in and I have my own wrapper scripts
<nacc> Bashing-om: what's really interesting is even though my snap contains `git`, youc an't call it directly
<nacc> you can only call git-ubuntu, because that's the only app I've defined
<Bashing-om> nacc: ^ so I have read . daunting how much I have to learn and I still have so much to learn about apt :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-10
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<mr-jules> good morning bud
<lotuspsychje> hi mr-jules
<lotuspsychje> updated 17.10 but no sign of a dock yet
<lotuspsychje> https://www.itnews.com.au/news/microsoft-patches-first-critical-linux-on-windows-bug-470426
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<ducasse> \o BluesKaj
<ducasse> wow, on my artful machine: "138 packages can be upgraded." - it was last upgraded yesterday :)
<BluesKaj> o/ ducasse
<BluesKaj> yeah, new kernel version too
<ducasse> and g++
<BluesKaj> 84 packages upgraded here, but I don't have the PIMs or the office suite
<brunch> ubuntu rollin' when :)
<BluesKaj> brunch, we're talking about Artful 17.10
<brunch> I gave it a go, it was beautiful
<ducasse> i don't have any office stuff either, not even a de.
<BluesKaj> ducasse, using a  wm
<ducasse> BluesKaj: yes, same here
<BluesKaj> no I use kde/plasma, was asking if you use a wm :-)
<BluesKaj> I forgot the ?
<BluesKaj> i3?
<ducasse> i3, yes. i find it works well both on my 3-monitor desktop and this laptop with small screen.
 * BluesKaj nods
<ducasse> the multihead handling is really good, treating each screen completely independently
<BluesKaj> why 3 monitors if you use a wm?
<ducasse> because you can't see several virtual desktops simultaneously on one screen
<BluesKaj> assume this 3 monitor setup is for work then
<ducasse> part work, part hobby
<ducasse> BluesKaj: how's your weather today? the rain and thunder has finally passed here, it seems
<BluesKaj> I use VDs but I have them pinned to separate apps, and one extra for miscellaneous on my TV
<BluesKaj> all on my TV that is
<BluesKaj> yerah, we have a simi iar forecast  for the next few days
<lordievader> I got too used to the KDE/plasma way of doing multiple displays, don't like the way I3 does things in this department.
<BluesKaj> I tried the i3 on my laptop, it was interesting for a while , but I still prefer a DE
<ducasse> thankfully i3 has already been 'ported' to wayland :-p
<lordievader> I rather like the tiling stuff, but I never could get it just right.
<BluesKaj> <---old windows guy , so i'm used to a DE
<lordievader> ducasse: Oeh, are you doing wayland?
<ducasse> only played with it so far, it's still missing stuff
<BluesKaj> tried fedora 26 with wayland ahd gnome, smooth and fast , but it's gnome :/
<BluesKaj> ahd = and
<brunch> I'm on f26 right now
<brunch> gnome is pretty neat, but there's some forced vsync stuff going on
<BluesKaj> kde/plasma runs poorly on wayland apparently
<brunch> so games run like crap unless they're in fullscreen
<brunch> which is a bummer since I always play windows
<lordievader> ducasse: No dpi (or scaling) issues?
<lordievader> Last time I tried Plasma on Wayland everything was huge! So I figured, but we have xrandr.... oh wait.
<ducasse> none that i've seen so far, but i'm also worried about  the lack of tools like xrandr.
<oerheks> seriously, how hard can it be, gparted/ changing partitions, graphically
<lordievader> oerheks: What do you mean?
<oerheks> he is dragging the partition size just the wrong way, over and over again
<oerheks> i am not sure how to clear this up
<BluesKaj> delete the partition then choose new
<oerheks> :-D
<BluesKaj> unless there's data he wants to save
<oerheks> He has got it now..
<ducasse> oerheks: it took a lot of effort, though :)
<oerheks> Yeah, sometimes it is hard to find a way to make it clear, i thought i explained well ..
<oerheks> WHen you have done this once, it is easy, i know
<oerheks> now wait and let him reinstall grub
 * ducasse grabs a 10-foot pole
<ducasse> nacc: he's just trying to run a toshiba tool from a live usb, no need for gksu i think. note: it's taken him two hours to put 'sudo ' in front of his command, and he still can't do it.
<nacc> ducasse: ah ha
<nacc> ducasse: thanks for the context (just waking up here)
 * ducasse looks forward to the day realtek is prevented from making wifi chipsets due to repeated incompetence
<oerheks> mayb i should not have given the ppa, but then again, he would need to rebuild the driver with any kernelupdeet
<ducasse> ppa is probably easier, but lets see if the driver even works :)
<ducasse> cool, did not know ubuntu now had a refind package... i need to try this.
<oerheks> ducasse, did you stumble across this ? https://gist.github.com/Brainiarc7/dfff8321b94fd666eb64eda0382f6813
<ducasse> oerheks: nope, thanks!
<ducasse> looks interesting...
<oerheks> I have seen this beiing used a few weeks back, but with troubles.
<oerheks> not sure it still is troubling..
<oerheks> WHere did you find your info?
<ducasse> hihi, see those horrid incantations for setting up secure boot keys etc :)
<ducasse> oh, someone just mentioned trying refind in #ubuntu, and i noticed there is now a package in the repos
<oerheks> oh indeed, time to drop this from my bookmarks
<ducasse> only zesty, though
<oerheks> good enough
<oerheks> King Willie https://www.yahoo.com/celebrity/royal-announcement-william-kate-officially-021200634.html
<nicomachus> moving chromium/chrome discussion here.
<nicomachus> BluesKaj: I just like the blue icon. :D
<BluesKaj> ducasse, fradeco uses kde/plasma, he was asking in kubuntu earlier
<ducasse> BluesKaj: ah, unknown territory to me then
<BluesKaj> ducasse, unless he thinks it's a 'buntu thing
<BluesKaj> ask anywhere 'buntu for answrers
<BluesKaj> ducasse, now he tells me he runs gnome
<ducasse> suspicious
<BluesKaj> he's new to irc apparently
<ducasse> echo XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP, should tell you the desktop
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-11
<Bashing-om> new kernel for xenial has hit the street : linux-image-4.4.0-91-generic_4.4.0-91.114_ .
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> hiyas all
<oerheks> :-)
<Bashing-om> It's Friday for half of us :)
<daftykins> \o/
<Bashing-om> Hey daftykins in the dry now with housing ?
<daftykins> not even close! i get to continue the roof leak insurance talk as of this week, as my guest has now left
<Bashing-om> daftykins: As your home is "historical". looks like you could get some help from a preservation society ?
<daftykins> nah, all falls to the owner sadly
<daftykins> only property fully taken over by the Trust of Guernsey probably has that benefit
<Bashing-om> Yuk. well hope then the insurance is co-operative :(
<daftykins> they've been fighting a bit on this one, but i keep using truth and honesty on my side and it keeps winning :D
<daftykins> brb new kernel for 14.04 again, sheesh
<EriC^^> hey guys
<oerheks> hi di hi, EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi oerheks :D how's it going?
<oerheks> friday, weekend ahead, making rice for diner
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: \o .
<EriC^^> nice, hey Bashing-om
 * oerheks smells the food gettin' ready
<daftykins> \o
<Bashing-om> EriC^^: Good day in our neighborhood . So far no flack from the new kernel installs :)
 * daftykins has pizza
<EriC^^> hey daftykins
<EriC^^> Bashing-om: cool, i'll be updating now!
<oerheks> nummie, 2nd hand food.. 3-4 days.. http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh6YS29wH1NURAdPui
<EriC^^> !info linux-generic xenial
<ubot5> linux-generic (source: linux-meta): Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.91.96 (xenial), package size 1 kB, installed size 13 kB
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-12
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-works-on-improving-video-audio-and-networking-on-ubuntu-17-10-517383.shtml
<Bashing-om> \o lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<lotuspsychje> rainy, cuppa coffee and late shift today
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Peggin a 100 yet in your business ?
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: lol, no bit slower atm
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: but im getting started :p
<Bashing-om> well, keep plugging away - it will happem :)
<Bashing-om> happen*
<Bashing-om> Yall have the fun without me for a spell / G nite .
<lotuspsychje> join the #ubuntu-desktop party :p
<EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey hey EriC^^
<lotuspsychje> hows it going?
<EriC^^> good you?
<lotuspsychje> great here
<lotuspsychje> little silent in main
<EriC^^> yeah
<lordievader> Good morning
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<lordievader> Morning BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> 'Morning lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> fine thanks, lordievader, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here, practicing my colemak :)
<oerheks> anyone seen this? https://www.lilite.co/
<daftykins> heh, nope - know of ninite though
<daftykins> not sure how this is easier than a script :>
<oerheks> it poops out a script, like this:
<oerheks> sudo apt-get install curl; curl 'https://www.lilite.co/get_installer?version=ubuntu_16&packages=Firefox&packages=Chrome&packages=Vim&packages=Build-Essential&packages=Eclipse&packages=7zip' | sudo bash
<oerheks> skinny, not 7zip-full and such..
<daftykins> ah i should probably have read it XD
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Hummm ^^ flatpacking ? An alternate to snaps ? 1st too I have seen Lilite too .
<oerheks> found @ https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/6on93z/ubuntu_1804_lts_desktop_default_application_survey/
<oerheks> i surely hope for a manual selector for installing stuff
<oerheks> but then again, it is easy to make a list of favorite apps
<oerheks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25300199/
 * oerheks needs wobbly windows
<oerheks> .. my brother is really fond of that :-D
<daftykins> haha
<oerheks> one day, he switches from win10, i am sure
<oerheks> it is taking ages to load, do updates, or do stuff
<oerheks> while waiting, he takes my pc :-D
 * oerheks proud
<daftykins> must be still on an HDD
<oerheks> His lenovo cheap laptop would run ubuntu fine, but he *needs* stuff
<oerheks> now he gave me a task, to merge a few outlook backups in one..
<oerheks> .. horrible
<Bashing-om> oerheks: Maybe point out to brother that he should " learn a better way " ?
<oerheks> well, now he is divorced .. we surely have a better relationship now.
<Bashing-om> Ouch, sad state when people agree to disagree to such and extent . Change is so hard !
<Bashing-om> an*
<oerheks> well, it wasn't about love, but money ..
<oerheks> sad thing is there are childeren in btween :-(
<daftykins> oerheks: PSTs?
<oerheks> PSTs? not sure what that is
<oerheks> oh, outlook pst
<daftykins> normal outlook's storage file
<oerheks> yes
<oerheks> there are paid tools.. for windows
<daftykins> hmm merging would be a bit messy
<daftykins> all you need to do is open them all under outlook, drag and drop :)
<oerheks> my best thought would be starting with an empty pst, and merge.. but that does not work
<daftykins> it'd be slow though - and there's a 20GB size limit
<oerheks> ah
<oerheks> the 5 psts are 50 gb or so together..
<daftykins> mmm that's that task done then ;)
<oerheks> thank you, now i have a clue
<daftykins> my pleasure :D
<oerheks> really appreciate that :-D
<oerheks> so he has to switch between them
<daftykins> yeah, for example a client of mine likes to keep his entire email history ever, the only way is to have his main 'working' PST for the actual mailbox, then two local only ones that are things he doesn't need synchronised
<daftykins> outlook 2013+ use better compression so they typically drop a PST to 66% the size of an older version, but even then he has 3 at around 20GB each (which is their limit)
<oerheks> noted
<daftykins> why he wants all that junk all the time i don't know :)
<daftykins> i'm all about minimalism!
<Bashing-om> daftykins: Me " always reduce to simplest terms " :D
<oerheks> it is all about not to switch beteen them.
<daftykins> best way would be to delete all the mail ;)
<oerheks> yeah, go on with your life, forget about the money
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> with that client i have a dedicated SSD for the 3 x PSTs so all searches etc are instant
<daftykins> even then though, file operations are pretty slow
<daftykins> oerheks: sometimes someone hasn't ever run a compact upon the PST so there's lots of blank space wasted, could be worth a run - but again needs outlook really
<daftykins> Outlook is pretty bad in that when you delete a message, it doesn't truly reclaim the space on disk
<oerheks> oneof my neighbours is angry with me, he heard i was good and reliable with pcs, but i refuse to help with windows 10
<oerheks> "you paid for it, so they should help" :-D
<daftykins> heh
<oerheks> i know,not nice of me, but i hardly know windows 7/8/10
<daftykins> that elder lady i fixed the ancient AMD Turion laptop for got gifted a mac for her birthday and has apparently been struggling to move her data over
<daftykins> what an absolute joke
<Bashing-om> oerheks: I am blunt and to the point "I do not do Windows" Daughter broke her Windows again and does not want 'buntu - she does without .
<daftykins> daym!
<daftykins> i'll do it for you :P
<oerheks> But i do not know what are the best malware/virus scannes, tricks, tweak tools and such...
<oerheks> last windows was vista.
<daftykins> oof, you went out on a bad one then
<oerheks> then, 2009, i switched to fedore+ubuntu.
<oerheks> still have the dvd + never-used serialnumber
<oerheks> man, i was happy then..
<oerheks> me, first new build pc, with vista...
<daftykins> i remember license keys that you could see :)
<daftykins> well, still can really - i dump them out of the EFI with Loonix
<oerheks> but it was a budget pc, celeron cpu and ati videocard, 2 gb and a 500 gb hdd
<daftykins> speedy!
<oerheks> still have that old workhorse.. would make it a server, but then again...
<daftykins> power consumption :)
<oerheks> now i encounter my limited hardware of a free pc from myneighbour, still pciXpress 1.3, and 6 gb..
<oerheks> i want a fresh i5/pci express 2.0 .. then i could use my nvidia 710
<oerheks> ( new in box)
<daftykins> :)
<oerheks> but money... i saves vacancy allowance for troubled times.
<daftykins> *nod* always good to have that emergency fund
<oerheks> Jups, because i have a dog ( vet costs if something happens), or get a job, so i can pay the rent to overcome the payment checks
<oerheks> for the rest , i help my mom ( and brother) now.. i feel rich, you know :-D
<daftykins> :)
<Bashing-om> oerheks: I run an nvidia GTX710 = works well in 16.04 with proprietary driver . freezes up on nouveau though . No nouveau support in 14.04 .
<oerheks> new pc is not that important, this box runs 24/7 fine
<oerheks> yeah, i noticed that, no nouveau support.
<daftykins> i dunno how lotus does it, still rocking the single core Athlon XP... i'd tear my hair out
<oerheks> nouveau.blacklist=1
<oerheks> so i play lotto for â¬ 2 every week ...
<oerheks> :-D
<oerheks> maybe i get a chance to visit Canada and Guernsey one day..
<oerheks> and meybe USA too... is Trump dead yet?
<Bashing-om> oerheks: I will remark even with KMS defeated that 710 runns circles around my old ATI card .
<oerheks> heh, current ati 545- runs like a char, 2 monitors, 2 movies, no problem
<daftykins> :>
<oerheks> 5450*
<daftykins> >10Mb 1080p movies? ;)
<oerheks> not sure they are both 1080...
<oerheks> 1 monitor is 1440x900..
<oerheks> this 8600 i found is way lower https://www.dropbox.com/s/c0b1nijbx6axb12/2017NV8600maxtor200.JPG?dl=0
<oerheks> bit it is 2xdvi, no hdmi
<oerheks> drunk & typing, no good combination, i think i walk drabber out and go to bed
<oerheks> have fun you 2!
<daftykins> enjoy!
<Bashing-om> It will be harder with out you. but we try to " have fun ". Sleep well .
#ubuntu-discuss 2017-08-13
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: staying up late mate?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Just a tad . A few loose ends to make sure are bound . On my way out soonest :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic artful
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.11.0.13.13 (artful), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: ; all . Packing it in . Off to bed . What I have going on will run overnight :) \o
<lotuspsychje> okay mate have a nice1
<lotuspsychje> !info lollipop
<Bashing-om> away .
<ubot5> Package lollipop does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> !info lollypop
<ubot5> Package lollypop does not exist in xenial
<BluesKaj> Hiyas all
<daftykins> BluesKaj: hi hi \o
<BluesKaj> hey daftykins, how goes it?
<daftykins> BluesKaj: all good here thanks :) bit more painting going on - http://i.imgur.com/kLDaNw1.jpg all well for you?
<BluesKaj> yup, just ordered  a 3pak of molex to sata power cable/connectors for an extra hdd I'm hooking up. It's a windows drive, but I have keep my hand in and up to date (sort of) because my windows user friends rely on me
<daftykins> :)
<BluesKaj> they're techie enough with their musical instrument equipment/guitar amps etc,  but have little interest about their pcs
<daftykins> so often the way
<BluesKaj> your cat spotted something interesting , wonder what it was ...every moving thing looks like prey to most cats :-)
<daftykins> :D
<immu> yo all
<daftykins> o/
<immu> hey daftykins whats up? where are others?
<BluesKaj> immu, check the nicklist , but most are lurkers
<immu> hey BluesKaj hows your kdesystem
 * Bashing-om back on duty :)
<BluesKaj> hey Bashing-om
<BluesKaj> running fine immu
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: \0 See that you have been kept occupied :)
<BluesKaj> yeah , a few misunderstandings due language barriers I'm afraid
<BluesKaj> due to
<BluesKaj> and also ommitted important info, as usual :-)
<Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Yeah - that too is my most difficult hurdle to overcome . My comminications skills still reek .
<BluesKaj> Bashing-om, usually it's questioner who omits the needed info , and usually it's not mentioned until we're already gone in the wrong direction
<oerheks> .. last minute information change, luv' those trolls..
<BluesKaj> I've given up the sata to usb guy , his story keeps changing
<oerheks> and in the end they fixed it themselves :-D
<BluesKaj> or finally ask the right question in another forum
<immu> how many days left for 17.10 release :)
<oerheks> 70 days or so?
<oerheks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<immu> oerheks, thats no fun, more in asking like real humans do :)
<daftykins> immu: not much, been painting today
<immu> is your painting done, daftykins ?
<daftykins> nah, much much more to do
<daftykins> there'll be spots that couldn't be done when the scaffolding comes down, too
<immu> okie
<Bashing-om> !mint
<ubot5> The Ubuntu channels can only provide support for Ubuntu and its official flavors, since other distributions and derivatives have repository and software changes. So please use their dedicated support venues, for example: Linux Mint (#linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org), Kali Linux (#kali-linux), and LXLE (#lxle)
<oerheks> !chocolate
<oerheks> oh
 * Bashing-om just lazy - but chocolate chip cookies all around .
<daftykins> !cookie | everyone
<ubot5> everyone: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<daftykins> ;D
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-06
<EriC^^> morning all
<Olivier[m]> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<Olivier[m]> Hey ducasse
<Olivier[m]> How are you doing>
<Olivier[m]> ?
<ducasse> i'm ok thanks, and you?
<Olivier[m]> Doing good here. Back from vacation.
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Olivier[m]> ð
<lotuspsychje> hey Olivier[m]
<Olivier[m]> Hmm, did I loose my nick?
<lotuspsychje> whats your nick?
<oerheks> Lordievader \0/
<lotuspsychje> ah, then yes you lost your nick
<oerheks> how do we know you are the real olivier...
<lotuspsychje> lol
<oerheks> tell us the name of your favorite OS ..
<lotuspsychje> haha
 * lotuspsychje looks out the windows
<Olivier[m]> OS or distro?
<BluesKaj> HI folks
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> yo
<EriC^^> afternoon all
<leftyfb> lol
<leftyfb> "someone_"
<leftyfb> just keeps going
<acheronuk> in #kubuntu now :/
<pragmaticenigma> rookie mistake ... i'm so ashamed of doing that
 * leftyfb sigh
<leftyfb> this 18.04 rollout is not going good
<acheronuk> not good?
<leftyfb> with the constant video issues along with not being fully available to 16.04 users 4 months after release
<acheronuk> pragmaticenigma: haha. easy done
<pragmaticenigma> did someone_ post the exact same question in #kubuntu
 * acheronuk scrolls back in #ubuntu
<BluesKaj> yes he did
<pragmaticenigma> did anyone call out the no-no's on cross posting?
<acheronuk> yep
<acheronuk> not yet
<pragmaticenigma> well he found someone to "help" him... going to leave it alone
<leftyfb> I didn't :)
<pragmaticenigma> has there been any motion on when LTS-to-LTS will be released?
<BluesKaj> leftyfb, just repeated his refusal in #kubuntu
<acheronuk> meeting the other day kicked it down the road a short while
<pragmaticenigma> Thanks leftyfb ... your brass is better than mine
<acheronuk> pragmaticenigma: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2018/08/02/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t15:28
<pragmaticenigma> thanks acheronuk
<acheronuk> maybe a chance of it being enable this week, but I would not put much money on it, especially if it gets later in the week with no action
<leftyfb> java "developer", that explains it
<pragmaticenigma> I think we just pwnd him... he's speechless
 * acheronuk chokes
<pragmaticenigma> my feeling on the topic is, we're here to help to the best of our ability. but when a person goes off on random websites looking for strange solutions that haven't seen a lot of traffic. they are beyond our capabilities.
<pragmaticenigma> also, who didn't know that you can back up the home directory, or ideally run it on a separate partition, and recover all your customizations when you fresh install and mount the /home in place
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<TJ-> g'evening lotuspsychje :)
<lotuspsychje> hey there TJ-
<lotuspsychje> !info plaso
<ubot5> plaso (source: plaso): super timeline all the things. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.5.1+dfsg-4 (bionic), package size 1122 kB, installed size 9516 kB
<TJ-> The new Thunderbird 60 is looking and feeling good
<lotuspsychje> !info thunderbird cosmic
<ubot5> thunderbird (source: thunderbird): Email, RSS and newsgroup client with integrated spam filter. In component main, is optional. Version 1:52.7.0+build1-0ubuntu1 (cosmic), package size 47480 kB, installed size 128390 kB
<lotuspsychje> on snap TJ- ?
<daftykins> import and export is a joke
<daftykins> also you can't just start it up and start manipulating local archives, it demands an account be added
<daftykins> this was very annoying to me the other day :)
<TJ-> No, I don't touch snaps!
<TJ-> Direct from thunderbird.net
<lotuspsychje> kk
<TJ-> daftykins: local archives? that's not what it's designed to do though
<daftykins> that's not an excuse :) there should be a "no mail setup right now please" option like most clients have :D
<daftykins> er local folders maybe, i forget how it phrases the local mail store
<daftykins> and no decent import/export is pretty criminal
<TJ-> It has Tools/Import... and in the releas notes says it now also supports conversion from mailbox to MailDir and so on
<daftykins> distinctly lacked anything useful for me when i was in it last
<daftykins> (definitely the alpha/beta of 60)
<TJ-> I just noticed my linux IMAP4 directory has 280,000 messages in it
<daftykins> time to go on a purging spree :D
<TJ-> Yup! I don't need to sync all those from the server for sure
<lotuspsychje> !info plaso cosmic
<ubot5> Package plaso does not exist in cosmic
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the back pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> yw lotuspsychje ... I figured that was what they were digging for
<leftyfb> I love these ones
<leftyfb> he's going to argue till he's blue in the face that his drive either isn't bad or there MUST be something else we can do
<lotuspsychje> leftyfb: :p
<lotuspsychje> maybe we can setup a crowdfunding for him?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: perhaps poke pici for a reload
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I claim 1st dibs on crowdfunding -  for a Ryzen7 .
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> i think its oerheks thats mysteriously donated 1m $
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: no, it's been removed from the archives in favour of c3
<lotuspsychje> ah
<pragmaticenigma> Oh TJ- you're in for a treat
<pragmaticenigma> i wish you luck
<lotuspsychje> its a comming back user too
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t5dzD39pBvDxmefm6A-dQpEj8EvEnpBB/view
<pragmaticenigma> yeah... TJ- they've been in here for a few weeks now with that issue
<TJ-> it could be due to knocking the PC, cable moved, connector moved. I've had PCs die like that through simple vibration from fans. reconnect securely, or push the connectors in/out a few times to clean the contacts, and they're fine again. So it's worth checking
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1718653
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1718653 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[radeon] Windows buttons gone, and titlebars are black, on specific programs on 17.10" [High,Incomplete]
<lotuspsychje> new update heh
<lotuspsychje> artful is eol lol
<lotuspsychje> a bug delete feature would be nice
<lotuspsychje> so the creator can wipe it too == less painfull work
<TJ-> better would be new Status option of "Obsolete" or better "EOL"
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> but eol, would this still be usefull for the future?
<lotuspsychje> anyway nap time here
<lotuspsychje> ttyl guys
<TJ-> tomreyn: bluesabre is going to SRU xfce4-settings into bionic-proposed, so keep an eye out and do an SRU verification in the bug report when it appears and you've tested it please
<tomreyn> TJ-: than you, and bluesabre :) will watch
<tomreyn> TJ-: it's now set to 'fix released' for bionic. to make sure i get this right - i don't need to do anything, yet, but nly after the SRU update was initiated?
<TJ-> it should be in -proposed if they've made it fix released
<TJ-> try apt-cache policy xfce4-settings
<tomreyn> ok, but i can't use the bionic package on xenial, right?
<tomreyn> due to dependencies
<tomreyn> i could try to reproduce it on bionic and see whether the proposed packaage fixes it there
<TJ-> it's supposed to be bionic-proposed ... has it been released for something else?
<tomreyn> no it hasnt
<tomreyn> but i only saw the bug on xenial, am not running bionic, yet
<TJ-> tomreyn: oh, I see what you mean. There's a task for xenial
<TJ-> but as bionic doesn't suffer it he's marked it fix released :)
<tomreyn> oh ok
<tomreyn> makes sense
<tomreyn> so i'll just wait
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-07
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning all
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje l
<lotuspsychje> how are you today
<EriC^^> good thanks you?
<lotuspsychje> great :p
<EriC^^> :D
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey good morning lordievader
<lotuspsychje> lordievader: ddi you go on holiday?
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> updating to .30
<lotuspsychje> afternoon TJ-
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: good morning (only just up!)
<lotuspsychje> cool
<TJ-> anything interesting happening?
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: main pretty slowly still, usercount going up steady towards 1700
<lotuspsychje> no lts upgrade path yet
<daftykins> still O_O
<TJ-> it's annoying there's not a single place we can look to see the progress on that, like a bug report
<lotuspsychje> ubuntu-release should show us right?
<lotuspsychje> also seen this passby -queuebot/#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: nvidia-settings (bionic-proposed/main) [390.42-0ubuntu1 => 390.77-0ubuntu0.18.04.1] (ubuntu-desktop)
<lotuspsychje> so thats good news
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: does your +g block invites too?
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: not sure
<lotuspsychje> ill send you invite
<TJ-> I can't see much I'm outside in the sun having to use black-on-white colour scheme, and weechat renders some items white on white like my own nickname and such so I miss stuff
<TJ-> I've also got 26 weechat buffers on the go so unless I'm choosing to be in one I miss stuff
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> lucky you have 6 screens to watch on
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj afternoon mate
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<JimBuntu> Hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
<BluesKaj> 'Morning JimBuntu
<lotuspsychje> lol nice theme https://www.deviantart.com/phobean/art/Reactionary-WIP-758103576
<JimBuntu> lotuspsychje, holy smokes, that's a Linux theme!? They did pretty good!
<lotuspsychje> yeah feels real retro
<BluesKaj> looks a bit like raspbian pixel DE for RPIs
<lotuspsychje> https://github.com/B00merang-Project/Redmond-Themes
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I don't have 6 screens, I'm on the 12" Asus T300chi
<lotuspsychje> oh :p
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: which is why I miss stuff :)
<lotuspsychje> :p
 * JimBuntu quickly throws multiple LCDs in TJ's direction
<lotuspsychje> lol
 * lotuspsychje ducks
 * lotuspsychje and grabs a few quickly to run away fast
<JimBuntu> Dang, lotuspsychje runs fast
 * TJ- quacks and ducks
<TJ-> I've got 1 external 24" in portrait mode with my programming IDE on
<lotuspsychje> cool
 * BluesKaj uses his old Panasonic 42" Plasma TV as a monitor ...still working well
<lotuspsychje> wow
<lotuspsychje> you blink your eyes sometimes BluesKaj ? :p
<JimBuntu> +1 for portrait mode
<TJ-> BluesKaj: I may put one like that up out here, but a lower-power LED device
<BluesKaj> I'm 3M away from it using wireless KB and mouse
<lotuspsychje> neat
<TJ-> I had the hilarious issue that when I 1st put this dell u2412m out here in landscape mode, every time I put my sun-glasses on the screen blanked!
<lotuspsychje> lol
<TJ-> Turns out the screen has a virtical polarisation filter and my glasses horizontal,so had to turn it to portrait to be able to see :D
<JimBuntu> lol, "It's a feature, not a bug!"
<BluesKaj> heh
<TJ-> hehehe yeah, like getting a pain in my neck from having to turn it sideways!
<JimBuntu> Be all 007-like, hold your glasses sideways ;-)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> we gonna need that chair from sawfish
<TJ-> Doctor: "what do you mean you think you have prostate cancer, that's a feature not a bug, liek camels in this era of global warming you need to be able to retain lots of water!"
<JimBuntu> lol
<lotuspsychje> erm swordfish
<JimBuntu> Oh, lol. So, you basically wanna steal my set up?
<lotuspsychje> hehe
<lotuspsychje> you sure your a data scientist and no underground h4ck3r?
<JimBuntu> In honor of the movie... if you can steal entry into the system, it's yours ;-D
<lotuspsychje> i can only do on on 'pressure' :p
<lotuspsychje> *it
<JimBuntu> hehehehehe
<lotuspsychje> roflol
<lotuspsychje> uh-oh jk is back with his dead HD
<lotuspsychje> run!
 * BluesKaj just doesn't react...if it's who i think it is.
<lotuspsychje> i wont wake him for sure
<BluesKaj> joins and quits are disabled
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> i put them in dark hex color
<BluesKaj> got tired of the clutter
<JimBuntu> Where did jk go? I don't see them
<lotuspsychje> * jk^ (5d96c872@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.150.200.114) has joined
<BluesKaj> why do you guys refer to a user as "them"
<TJ-> BluesKaj: gender-neutral ?
<BluesKaj> ?
<TJ-> "it"
<JimBuntu> I try not to infer gender, so I often go with they, them and such
<BluesKaj> it's plural
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, in a strict sense, yes... it's plural. In common day speech, it's not only plural.
<lotuspsychje> it sounds like a horror movie 'they!'
<BluesKaj> I'm not that politically correct , a he is a he and a she is still a she , the rest I don't care about
<JimBuntu> "Why did you give the popcorn to them?" <-- "them" refers to 1 or more people
<BluesKaj> yup
<TJ-> BluesKaj: it's because "idiot" may offend :p
<lotuspsychje> i think jimbuntu suffers split psycho personality between hacker-data scientist :p
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I'm not trying to be PC... simply avoiding anything gender-based... this is the internet, we are all only masses of pink stuff encapsulated in bone and flesh
<BluesKaj> an  idiot is till a he or a she :-)
<JimBuntu> lol, idiots are surely still idiots.
<BluesKaj> JimBuntu, why avoid gender ...sorry i don't get it,  if I answer someone with the wrong gender I'm sure that person will correct me.
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I choose to ignore it, that's all. I don't think I have any good reason.
<TJ-> BluesKaj: it's about not assuming gender before we know
<TJ-> I know of many woman using IRC that get infurated that they are assumed to be men unless their nickname is something like "princessXXX" or whatever
<JimBuntu> I'll never understand the outrage from a user with a non-descript nick who is mis-assumed, then again, I don't have to... the only thing I have to do is deal with it.
<BluesKaj> TJ-, I'll assume since it's mostly males in here and usually a female's nick will indicate her gender, that's been my experience
<JimBuntu> I see it in game chat quite often... nick is something like "DudeWhoKillsAllThings" and then they get mad when someone says "dudes", lol
<BluesKaj> dudettes ;-)
<JimBuntu> I was at an event before and the person got on stage and said something like "Dudes and dudettes, we have quite a show for you tonight."
 * JimBuntu answered the phone and relayed that the 80s want their terms back, to the person on stage
<TJ-> JimBuntu: you might if everyone assumed you were a woman. I get it because of my real name, everyone assumes it's an acronym (initials) when it isn't. After a while I simply get fed up needing to explain it to people who treat me like I don't know my own name
<BluesKaj> I'm old and reflect my generation's attlitude towards this gender neutral trend as  political correctness crap
<TJ-> I've had several people tell me point-blank "that can't be your real name, what is it"
<TJ-> BluesKaj: if we can see the person, or hear the person, we have data to base an assumption on. On here we don't
<JimBuntu> Come on TJ- , why wont you tell us your REAL name?! lol
 * JimBuntu steals TJ-'s wallet... dear Tux! The full name is "The Joker"!
<BluesKaj> TJ-, you see, if I assume wrong it's no big deal  but usually I'm right so it doesn't matter
<JimBuntu> I had a friend whose name, and that of their siblings, were all engine parts.
<TJ-> my name is just "Tj" pronounced Teej. No first + last, just that, hence my domain name (created in frustration at people assuming wrongly! (iam.tj))
<BluesKaj> refering to a single person as they is incorrect English ...that actually bothers me more than getting the gender wrong
<JimBuntu> TJ-, I have not known a Tj IRL, but I have known others with 2 letter names and I am pretty sure they dealt with the same hassle.
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, google define:they
<JimBuntu> It's proper to use as a third person singular noun
<BluesKaj> google isn't what i would call a reference nowadays
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, that's only the search engine, I can get you a proper etymology as well... should show as being proper for at least 250 years
<TJ-> OED contains a definition: "2third person plural singular Used to refer to a person of unspecified gender.
<JimBuntu> My bad, goes back as a third person singular noun at least 650+ years
<TJ-> âask a friend if they could helpâ
<JimBuntu> The English language doesn't always make clear sense.
<TJ-> JimBuntu: I blame the Yanks :p
<JimBuntu> lol, I blame everyone. English is such a mix of other languages.... steal from this one, borrow from that one.
<TJ-> It'd certainly be no good as a programming language when there's so many spellings of words with different meanings that sound the same... well, maybe apart from Ruby!
 * JimBuntu still promotes AND as the 27th letter in the alphabet.
<TJ-> I've been doing a deep-dive into Ruby hacking recently and it is terrible
<TJ-> When I say "red" do I mean "read" and why would I pronounce "read" as "read/red" when it refers to the past!?
<BluesKaj> sorry m but in my case when referring to ,one person they is still plural and always will be,  especially when it is not 3rd person
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, this is how language changes... it starts with one person, then becomes more than one... if it catches on, it becomes the new way. This is fine and part of the improvement process. However you wish to use the word is fine with me, but know... that it's a long standing tradition to use it otherwise.
<leftyfb> this is how we end up with words like "fleek"
<leftyfb> stupid
<leftyfb> "early 21st century: apparently an arbitrary formation; popularized in a 2014 video post on the social media service Vine by Kayla Newman (âPeaches Monroeeâ)."
<leftyfb> apparently celebrities are allow to just add words to the English language
<JimBuntu> leftyfb, many words come and go. With the tech of today, things are accelerated... hopefully the loss of new words will also be accelerated.
<JimBuntu> FWIW: Even Shakespeare used "them" as a singular noun.
<BluesKaj> oops
<BluesKaj> anyway we lost sight of the original idea about gender neutrality, which I for could care less about
<BluesKaj> I for one
<JimBuntu> No oops needed, even in his time, it was already an accepted use. It predates him by at least a couple hundred years and was possibly used in the same way going back to Old Norse
<JimBuntu> I do wonder if this is a regional thing, perhaps it is not as accepted in countries where English is not the native language. This wouldn't explain 'why', but it could explain the how.
<BluesKaj> my brain doesn't compute referring to a single person as they, it's always been he or she
<BluesKaj> don't think old norse uses the equivalent to they as singular ...my swedish background makes me think not
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I don't understand gender as a whole... I get 'sex' but not 'gender'. I recognize 4 sexes... male, female, both and neither/neuter.
<BluesKaj> I don't  :-)
<JimBuntu> 'gender' seems to be a complete construct to me. It's all assumptions about a person based on their sex and how people of the same sex act in ones local region.
<BluesKaj> sex refers to humans and gender can include pronouns in other languages such as french etc
<BluesKaj> gotta go ...
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, in those uses... isn't gender simply a go-between for the sex of the person though... in reality? la and le... don't REALLY refer to gender and instead actually refer to sex... or used to anyhow. Things are a bit confusing today
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, be safe
<BluesKaj> my power is about ot be shut off for 15 mins or , local Hydro utility is changing pole on the next street
<BluesKaj> back on
<BluesKaj> normally they can change poles without powering down, but this pole also has a transformer on it
<JimBuntu> FWIW: heart defibrillators were invented for lineman.
<pauljw> hi everyone
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: good evening
<lotuspsychje> hey hggdh how are you today?
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: life is good. I am alive, and this is good :-)
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: no hot news from your side?
<hggdh> nothing. Still waiting for resolution (and hoping, since we can always hope) that police will catch them
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: has it been reported?
<hggdh> I *think* so. It's Freenode, and I am not staff, so I do not really know
<lotuspsychje> kk
<hggdh> (and I very carefully do not ask)
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: users slightly going up in main, and hopefully when lts upgrade path fixxed, spam will be gone
<lotuspsychje> wb EriC^^
<EriC^^> thanks lotuspsychje
<hggdh> one hopes indeed. After all, hope is the next-to-last to die
<lotuspsychje> :p
<hggdh> but unless they messed really bad, it will be a long forensics
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<hggdh> and it will depend on the jurisdiction (perhaps slander might apply, perhaps some sort of DDoS would, whatever)
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i still think xenial upgraders will hit like a bomb
<hggdh> I think they already are in. Most of the casual Xenial users do not know the difference, they hear 18.04.1 is out, they try
<lotuspsychje> i think the masses will come
<lotuspsychje> thousands of boxes have xenial on them
<hggdh> and the professional ones... if they have not yet tried test upgrades, they are not going to go in anytime soon
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: we will see what happens soonish :p
<hggdh> :-)
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i recently got an update on an artful bug, saying its end of life, will this bug automaticly vanish?
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1702347
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1702347 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Graphical glitches in screen by default on 17.10 & 18.04" [Low,Invalid]
<lotuspsychje> oh wait its another bug
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1718653
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1718653 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[radeon] Windows buttons gone, and titlebars are black, on specific programs on 17.10" [High,Incomplete]
<lotuspsychje> #15
<pragmaticenigma> does anyone of the bug ticket number for the LTS-to-LTS hold up?
<lotuspsychje> no didnt see pragmaticenigma where di you hear?
<pragmaticenigma> I thought it was here yesterday
<pragmaticenigma> i remember someone posted the bug id from launchpad
<lotuspsychje> ah shoot i missed that
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: what time pragmaticenigma ill check the logs
<lotuspsychje> yesterday right?
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: dont see it for yesterday in discuss
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/1766890
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1766890 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Undecided,Triaged]
<lotuspsychje> aha tnx pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> Though it looks like a few hours ago it moved to triaged
<pragmaticenigma> hopefully means it's ready to move forward?
<lotuspsychje> not sure, lets hope mate
<lotuspsychje> and does this affect only lenovo, or all systems?
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: no, it does not automagically die
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: do they consider the bug still usefull an an eol non-lts?
<lotuspsychje> on
<pragmaticenigma> I believe it affect multiple.. DELL XPS 13 was also mentioned in the thread
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: you can reproduce on Bionic or Cosmic, and update the bug
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: ah tnx
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: its not relevant anymore, bug is solved by updates
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: if you can pin the update that fix it, then you can update the bug with it, and close fixed
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: thats not gonna be an easy find, as i only run bionic now
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: if you cannot find the update, you should still add a comment stating it is now gone, and *still* close fixed
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: ah kk
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: arent there cases they remove bugs?
<hggdh> this is why vanvugt set it to incomplete
<hggdh> usually we try NOT to close bugs when a release is EOL-ed
<hggdh> (the problem may still be there, after all)
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: ah i see
<hggdh> if, OTOH, a package has been dropped from the distro, then it would be acceptable to close as -- say -- invalid, since it is EOL-ed and the package is no more
<hggdh> (as long as it is explained in a comment)
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: it was in early stages of artful me testing bugs
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: what happens in 58 days when bug expires?
<daftykins> !cookie | tomreyn
<ubot5> tomreyn: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<daftykins> >:D
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: if a bug expires (which will happen if it is INCOMPLETE), then it is closed INVALID (as far as I can remember)
<hggdh> of course, the OP can re-open it whenever
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: ok tnx
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: good? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1718653
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1718653 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "[radeon] Windows buttons gone, and titlebars are black, on specific programs on 17.10" [High,Fix released]
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: perfect, thank you
<lotuspsychje> thank you :p
<lotuspsychje> new factoid
<lotuspsychje> !pi
<ubot5> Instructions for installing Ubuntu onto Raspberry Pi systems can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi
<leftyfb> I wonder if those new images actually work on the pi now
<leftyfb> previously if you used them and then updated, things would go horribly wrong
<lotuspsychje> didnt test myself leftyfb
<lotuspsychje> ducasse: perhaps? ^
<leftyfb> I'll have to give them a try
<lotuspsychje> wiki nicely up to date for sure
<leftyfb> verymuch
<lotuspsychje> brb testing a wayland bug, test if its still bad on .1
<lotuspsychje> and yes its still bad :p
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1740146
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1740146 in mutter (Ubuntu) "[AMD/radeon] System slow on wayland, lagging mouse (but fast in Xorg)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lotuspsychje> updated
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-release-upgrader
<ubot5> Package ubuntu-release-upgrader does not exist in bionic
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: try mainline, too, there are amd gpu improvements after 4.15
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: for wayland specific?
<tomreyn> not sure
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: cause this bug, in xorg all is fine
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: ill test it anyway tomorrows tnx
<lotuspsychje> almost nap time and its still 34c omg..
<tomreyn> those days are tough
<tomreyn> for the years to come, we'll need to dig morecaves ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> or buy that 100 euro ice fan box
<tomreyn> or move to norway
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> and my nose freez off, no tnx
<lotuspsychje> only to visit ducasse
<lotuspsychje> nite nite all
<tomreyn> norway is looong
<lotuspsychje> but beautyfull
<tomreyn> its not cold everywhere
<lotuspsychje> sleep tight tomreyn
<ducasse> nite lotuspsychje
<tomreyn> and you, lotusflower
<EriC^^> evening all
<oerheks> brrrrr chillin'
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-08
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<lotuspsychje> pragmanticenigma found this bug for ltsupgrade:
<lotuspsychje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/1766890
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1766890 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Undecided,In progress]
<guiverc> thanks lotuspsychje (bug info..)
<lotuspsychje> np guiverc seems thats what holding up..on different machines
<guiverc> & on good side - fix released was marked ~6 hours ago..  :)
<lotuspsychje> ah didnt notice that guiverc tnx
<lotuspsychje> guiverc: lets keep an eye on upgrade windows today then
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-release-upgrader xenial
<ubot5> Package ubuntu-release-upgrader does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> !info libc6 xenial
<ubot5> libc6 (source: glibc): GNU C Library: Shared libraries. In component main, is required. Version 2.23-0ubuntu10 (xenial), package size 2212 kB, installed size 9582 kB
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-release-upgrader cosmic
<ubot5> Package ubuntu-release-upgrader does not exist in cosmic
<lotuspsychje> hmm
<lotuspsychje> bbl
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: always a pain atheros & realtek
<lotuspsychje> when are they gonna fix this working by default
<lotuspsychje> default users shouldnt be poking at realtek gits right
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1769386 #8 got it working on my bug with a git
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1769386 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Cable network does not get recognized anymore, wifi works" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: sorry, i missed this entirely
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: dont sweat mate im used to idle
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: you should document what happens when you try to use the card
<tomreyn> so far i think there are only variations of "does not work" on there. which it probably boild down toi, but it may help triaging this to know how it fails.
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: like in a syslog tail?
<tomreyn> whatever relevant log is on syslog or dmesg, yes
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: problem is this happens on a customers box..i cant be there always
<tomreyn> or try to bring it up manually and see what the result is
<lotuspsychje> this is what i bugged it from customers box
<lotuspsychje> hoping for a fix
<lotuspsychje> next time ill be there ill run few more tests
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: but this bug is really not the first on atheros and realtek...
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: definitely not ;)
<lotuspsychje> but good idea tomreyn next bug i do remote, ill keep the tail open
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: it seems like this is a widespread issue, so it should not be too hard to get more information.
<tomreyn> also , this seems to be a workaround: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1779817#19
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1779817 in linux (Ubuntu) "r8169 no internet after suspending" [Medium,Confirmed]
<lotuspsychje> lets c
<tomreyn> actually there's only one saying it made it work, 2 saying it didnt
<lotuspsychje> interesting find tomreyn
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: comment #39
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: i reported the bug from customers xenial on Uname: Linux 4.13.0-39-generic x86_64
<lotuspsychje> so lets assume realtek was working fine below kernel 4.13 and update broke it
<tomreyn> xenial now has 4.15, too
<tomreyn> for hwe
<lotuspsychje> yeah but i reported it broken on 4.13
<tomreyn> right
<lotuspsychje> on clean install realtek worked find, cant recall wich kernel that was
<tomreyn> it must be a regression :-/
<lotuspsychje> fine
<lotuspsychje> those realteks always work/not work on kernel versions and linux-firmware
<tomreyn> you could downgrade the customer machone to 4.4 (GA kernel) if that's an option for them + you, until it's fixed
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: i might do the bionic test also
<lotuspsychje> got some new ideas now tomreyn tnx :p
<tomreyn> note this kernel wont work with secure boot
<tomreyn> but it could work on xenial, i guess
<tomreyn> i'm sleepy, ttyl
<lotuspsychje> okay mate sleep tight!
<lotuspsychje> enjoy the breeze
<tomreyn> :) will
<ducasse> good morning
<mwsb> JimBuntu: Not sure if you know of nfsplus but a somewhat well-known troll with nothing better to do with his time.
<JimBuntu> Ah, I did not, thanks
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
 * BluesKaj tries to wake up, but it's too early...damn insomnia  :/
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, I woke up 5 hours ago, thanks to insomnia
<BluesKaj> whoa JimBuntu, guess you'll be napping today :-)
<BluesKaj> I don'r sleep in like I used to ...must be one of the signs of old age
<BluesKaj> waiting for the coffee to kick in
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> coffee the black gold
<BluesKaj> yup
<BluesKaj> oh no, not another multiple monitor problem...fixing that is so hit and miss
<TJ-> sounds more like multi-GPU
<BluesKaj> assumed 2 gpus = 2 monitors
<BluesKaj> assumed wrong, it's 5
<TJ-> BluesKaj: can you recall where the per-user Xorg log is now? somewhere under $HOME isn't it? My system is still logging to /var/log/ but I've seen a few where it's in $HOME
<BluesKaj> TJ-, still have Xorg.0.log in /var/log on 18.10 Cosmic
<TJ-> hmmm I wonder under what circumstances its also under $HOME
<BluesKaj> haven't heard of that
<ducasse> TJ-: ~/.local/share/xorg i think
<BluesKaj> Hi ducasse,  I don't have that path
<TJ-> Thanks ducasse. any idea under what circumstances that happens? is it just for the gdm3/gnome desktop?
<ducasse> BluesKaj: me neither, but i'm fairly sure that's it
<TJ-> !paste
<ubot5> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use https://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use https://imgur.com/ !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<ducasse> aiui (and i might be wrong) it's used when x is run under your userid instead of root
<BluesKaj> I'm receiving this notice when apt updating, should I be concerned?  (appstreamcli:4538): GLib-CRITICAL **: 06:51:35.352: g_atomic_ref_count_dec: assertion 'g_atomic_int_get (arc) > 0' failed
<JimBuntu> BluesKaj, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/1785498
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1785498 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "g_atomic_ref_count_dec: assertion 'g_atomic_int_get (arc) > 0' failed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ducasse> BluesKaj: the appstream thing is only used to provide extra information to gnome software, i think
<ducasse> at least that's the answer i was given when i asked about it
<TJ-> ducasse: re: xorg - so probably thats the way gdm3 is configured in 18.04
<BluesKaj> ok thanks  JimBuntu, ducasse ...seems not to affect my updates/upgrades, they still continue after the notice
<TJ-> BluesKaj: ducasse I do wish programmers would handle those asserts as reports to the user as well, about what was being attempted
<ducasse> TJ-: dunno, i still use lightdm. when this change was introduced i think it was due to systemd changes.
<TJ-> yes, sounds about right
<ducasse> there was a debian bug report on it, iirc
<TJ-> makes sense to not run the server as root
<ducasse> it does, sure
<lotuspsychje> good morning tomreyn :p
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje:  ;) been awake for a while
<tomreyn> well, as much as you can be awake at 38Â°C
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: a users from this morning asked for you, told him you was afk, and he went for rebooting
<lotuspsychje> didnt get more feedback from him
<tomreyn> uh oh ;)
<lotuspsychje> fre..something
<tomreyn> got it, thanks
<lotuspsychje> kk
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: here it cooled a bit today
<tomreyn> nice! i should have a thunderstorm in an hour, too
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: spain & portugal 40-45c
<lotuspsychje> were on the good side :p
<tomreyn> omg, i'd just die
<tomreyn> this bottom left red blobl is my only hope right now http://i.imgur.com/N1Pezzd.png
<lotuspsychje> nice
<TJ-> here it comes! just hitting me now, rain that is
<TJ-> sat outside with PC
<lotuspsychje> nice
<tomreyn> hopefulyl your pc didnt get hit
<lotuspsychje> hey blackflow
<TJ-> I'm under the inside-out room :)
<hggdh> TJ-: will look for erge, just read it on -ops
<TJ-> hggdh: oh, that was hours ago :)
<lotuspsychje> what do you guys think of adding this to !ppapurge ?
<lotuspsychje> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-list-and-remove-ppa-repository-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
<hggdh> TJ-: yes, I know... sorry. Just wanted you to know it was not a waste of time to report the user
<hggdh> lotuspsychje: nice
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: i found linuxconfig a very decent tut site
<hggdh> (although there is one word in the page that is coloured green/blue that I almost cannot read)
<TJ-> hggdh: ahhh, thanks
<lotuspsychje> and as more users would start using bionic..
<hggdh> yes
<lotuspsychje> hggdh: wich word?
<TJ-> the green one :p
<TJ-> or should i say , the invisible one?
<hggdh> actually, all the green ones :-)
<tomreyn> there are three: java, master-daily, PPA
<lotuspsychje> ah
<lotuspsychje> its less visible indeed
<tomreyn> i think the guide is sound, just the 'gui way' for removal lacks explanation on how to identify + remove the repo gpg signing key
<tomreyn> Better than the current, though: <reply>To disable a PPA from your sources and revert your packages back to default Ubuntu packages, install ppa-purge and use the command: Â« sudo ppa-purge ppa:<repository-name>/<subdirectory> Â» â For more information, see http://www.webupd8.org/2009/12/remove-ppa-repositories-via-command.html
<lotuspsychje> yeah the webupd8 is flaky
<lotuspsychje> but would the linuxconfig one, work on xenial aswell?
<lotuspsychje> cause we still got 2 years xenial boxes
<tomreyn> this hasn't changes since 14.04 i think
<lotuspsychje> kk
<tomreyn> so, yes, works on xenial
<lotuspsychje> cool
<lotuspsychje> but no gpg heh
<tomreyn> oh ppa-purge is also not mentioned, that's actually a reason to look for something better, or write it, if you can, somewhere, just like on a wiki which no one can access to.
<lotuspsychje> yeah, cause we need that trigger alot
<tomreyn> the proper solution would be to add functionality (and a --switch) to apt-add-repostory to purge packages (or package versions) installed from the repository to be removed, like ppa-purge does it.
<daftykins> the irony about ppa-purge is you used to have to install it from a PPA
<daftykins> >:D
<lotuspsychje> !info ppa-purge
<ubot5> ppa-purge (source: ppa-purge): disables a PPA and reverts to official packages. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.8+bzr63 (bionic), package size 6 kB, installed size 24 kB
<lotuspsychje> yayy
<daftykins> ah har :>
<tomreyn> :) i think it was never that welcome, since it's a bash, not a python script, thus not using the python apt classes as all the other tools do, and since ti was not complete / reliable for a long time. a community contributed tool.
<daftykins> ah i see
<tomreyn> (i'm guessing a lot there)
<TJ-> tomreyn: apt-add-repository has a --remove option
<TJ-> tomreyn: doesn't that also purge packets?
<TJ-> ahhh, no, I see it doesn't
<tomreyn> right
<tomreyn> oerheks: fwupd is the firmware updating daemon - just in case oyu're not aware
<tomreyn> i dont know how it retrieves its updates, this may depend on the vendor
<oerheks> yes, i am looking and reading, maybe a source in his lists, or a cronjob..
<tomreyn> hope you don't mind me taking over... i know very little about it, too, though.
<daftykins> what's getting updated? :) i think only my toaster is safe from me, at this point
<oerheks> interesting indeed, http://termbin.com/pivl
<daftykins> hmm gigabyte
<daftykins> they want to flash their mobo?
<oerheks> a long term wish: a tool that updates firmware, even the bios
<oerheks> i am learning tonight
<daftykins> is that what's happening? someone wants to update the BIOS on their mobo? because that one has a built-in tool...
<daftykins> i can only imagine i have gotten the situation wrong :)
<oerheks> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/latest/%23ubuntu.html
<oerheks> up to 10 min ago, see the end
<daftykins> ty
<daftykins> makes no sense why anyone should pursue a Linux based update method when a motherboard has native support free from an OS
<oerheks> hmm
<oerheks> can uefi be updated from ;linux when a password is set?
<oerheks> tom ^
<tomreyn> oerheks: i dont know
<tomreyn> chances are you'd either need to enter it then, or it will just fail
<daftykins> why would you take the risk?
<tomreyn> which risk?
<tomreyn> (i'm asking since there could be multiple, not because i dont see one)
<daftykins> i might have gotten the wrong impression still, but are you talking with that guy about using a Linux based app to update his gigabyte motherboard BIOS?
<oerheks> besides risc, i would not allow linux to do that, i find it interesting, but want to know the cuplit users can encounter, so i was thinking about protected firmware like uefi
<tomreyn> daftykins: we're talking about the person who reported that their system showed this error message https://i.imgur.com/xKCMsQE.png and i think they had a gigabyte mainboard.
<tomreyn> risc or risk :)
<daftykins> ah ok so it's unrelated, but for some reason a fwupd thing is running o0
<tomreyn> oerheks: uefi has a generic firmware update staging mechanism, so it's entirely possible to design this safely.
<tomreyn> the actual update is then only carried out on reboot
<tomreyn> also firmwares are almost always signed or at least checksummed nowadays.
<oerheks> i am reading https://fwupd.org/users now
<daftykins> mmm when my friend was helping me make that modified BIOS, i had to bypass that
<tomreyn> daftykins: fwupd and fwupdate\* are installed by default on 18.04.
<oerheks> new stuff indeed
<tomreyn> last time i read about it, fwupd was considered a stillbirth
<daftykins> figures Canonical are touching it then ;D
<tomreyn> it's great to have this generic, vendor independant framework, for this purpose. but having this doesn't automatically make cvendors support it.
<tomreyn> pressure on them is rising during the past and future years, luckily, though.
<daftykins> given how many people use Linux? goodness no :P
<oerheks> lot of work to do https://fwupd.org/vendorlist
<tomreyn> proprietary firmwares for things as central as the mainbord you acquired should be a no go.
<daftykins> if i were at Asus i'd just laugh
<tomreyn> daftykins: i doubt fwupd is strictly linux dependant. well the imlementation probably is, but i'm sure it could be adapted for other OS.
<tomreyn> wow, this list has grown
<daftykins> i'll stick to native tools :D
<tomreyn> last time i looked at it i think it had 3 records
<tomreyn> well those are native tools. they use the mechanism uefi offers for staging FW updates
<tomreyn> for mainboard that is
<tomreyn> not sure about other devices
<daftykins> quite like my fancy modern Asus mobos being able to read the files straight off even NTFS HDDs to update from
<tomreyn> https://lwn.net/Articles/761860/
<tomreyn> looks like hey may actuall make it happen, that'd be awesome.
<daftykins> is there a rule that all open source related sites have to appear as if from the 90s? :)
<pauljw> they're probably all running on 90s servers
<daftykins> xD
<tomreyn> Â© R.M.S. web design
<tsimonq2> Uhm... ubuntu.com is kinda open source related and it looks *beautiful*
<tsimonq2> So does Lubuntu.me. ;)
<daftykins> quiet you! ;D
<pauljw> RMS - another topic that gives me a headache.  if he would have spend a tenth of the effort that he has expended on dissertations re: why we should call linux gnulinux, writing code, he may actually have a working Hurd kernel.  30yrs later...
<daftykins> he's too busy trying to find a parrot and asking to borrow other peoples phones so he doesn't have to touch closed source ;D
<pauljw> heheh
<oerheks> i am fighting the image of an eating-toenail-guy
<pauljw> lol
<pragmaticenigma> who is RMS pauljw ?
<tomreyn> IMO he's > current U.S. president. a mean way to kill a discussion, i know.,
<tomreyn> stallman, the Gnu behind the GNU
<pragmaticenigma> that's what I thought... the RM threw me
<pragmaticenigma> I think most OpenSource project sites look 90s is because that's when the project started and most devs are trying to write software, not make a pretty website
<pragmaticenigma> much better tools for content management today that reduce the repetiveness of web develpement of yesteryear
<pragmaticenigma> I think those kids today had no idea, we used to have to code each page by hand, top to bottom
<pragmaticenigma> and to make a style change meant editing every single page on the site
<pragmaticenigma> now how stallman thinks usign a land line is safe, when most of the MA-Bell was all closed source
<daftykins> doubt they've all been online that long
<pragmaticenigma> oh... it's fun when a new hire comes out of college and gets a real taste of supporting legacy applications
<pragmaticenigma> WebForms for life!!!
<oerheks> grinn https://me.me/i/a-ggag-com-1988-picard-introduces-2002-bill-gates-introduces-8788255
<pragmaticenigma> far as stallman goes ... it's true that we really shouldn't lump it as Linux... since Linux is only the kernel... but how does one give a name to a bunch of things with that as a common thread
<daftykins> well just to name what you're running you have to have a lengthy conversation and also cover the stupid pretentious pronunciations :<
<pauljw> only the kernel, which explains why after 30yrs he still can't manage to get a working one.
<pragmaticenigma> pauljw: stallman doesn't have anything to do with linux kernel... that's Torvalds baby
<pragmaticenigma> stallman => userspace, torvalds => systemspace
<daftykins> i believe pauljw was talking about Hurd?
<daftykins> can't say i'm familiar
<pauljw> i know whose baby it is, and that's what is driving little Ricky crazy.  the GNU project which is RMS's is still trying to get the Hurd kernel to run.
<tomreyn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWZtcxWiJjE
<tomreyn> gnu hurd release date poll
<daftykins> i Hurd you like delays
<tomreyn> sure, i live in berlin, we love delays.
<daftykins> :D
<tomreyn> you might have heard about this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport
<tomreyn> i suspect HURD will release first
<daftykins> hmm nope
<pauljw> no way...
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-09
<hggdh> tomreyn: late, but erge is dealt with
<tomreyn> hggdh: doh. thanks.
<tomreyn> i was surprised they stopped when i asked for it
<hggdh> still, they did it, at least twice today
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Awwhhh ... freash meat for the grinder :)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> hey Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: WB ... I have not been on long .. but has been brisk in main .
<lotuspsychje> oh nice
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: upgrade lts path fixxed?
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Have not seen the status of the upgrade path to this time . My cosmic install went south on me .. and spent the time messing about and then getting my data back off .. just in case I do that nuclear thing .
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: there's a bug on it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/1766890
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1766890 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Undecided,In progress]
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Yepper, the one I suspect: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glib2.0/+bug/1785498
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1785498 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "g_atomic_ref_count_dec: assertion 'g_atomic_int_get (arc) > 0' failed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: im staying off non-lts for a while again
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Oh .. was but a testing install for one of the developers .. and I liked 18.10 sooo much I kept it - falling back now to 18.04 . In A few days when the fix lands will see what I can do to fix and/or re-install.
<lotuspsychje> kk
<EriC^> morning all
<Bashing-om> EriC^: \o WB :)
<EriC^> thanks Bashing-om :)
<Bashing-om> EriC^: Progress made on http://pchelp.site/ ?
<EriC^> not much Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EriC^: Bummer .. much traffic on the site ?
<EriC^> not at all i think
<Bashing-om> EriC^: Sheeshh .. I guess we going to have to push just a tad .
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-390
<ubot5> Package nvidia-390 does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-driver-390
<ubot5> nvidia-driver-390 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-390): NVIDIA driver metapackage. In component restricted, is optional. Version 390.48-0ubuntu3 (bionic), package size 368 kB, installed size 1066 kB
<Bashing-om> !info nvidia-driver-390 cosmic
<ubot5> nvidia-driver-390 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-390): NVIDIA driver metapackage. In component restricted, is optional. Version 390.77-0ubuntu1 (cosmic), package size 369 kB, installed size 1071 kB
<lotuspsychje> aha its been pushed to cosmic
<lotuspsychje> should be used on bionic too
<Bashing-om> It is that time for me .. we do this more later \o
<lotuspsychje> nite nite
<EriC^> nitey nite Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> Yall take care - I be snooz'n .
<olivier[m]7> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<ducasse> \o lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<ducasse> all right here, and yourself?
<lordievader> Doing good here. Set up a new (Matrix) homeserver and fixed my IRC issues with that.
<ducasse> barely tried matrix, irc is all i need
<ducasse> man, this spam is getting really old
<lordievader> Which spam?
<ducasse> the 'Christel just posted this "denial" on the freenode blog' stuff that's been pouring in recently
<lordievader> Ah, right. Yeah, that was already going on before I fell off the line.
<ducasse> you'd think they got bored at some point
<lordievader> It's automated, right? Guess it is a 'turn on and forget' type of thing.
<ducasse> possibly, i've no idea how they do it in practice
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> lunchtime, salmon-asperges rolls salad
<BluesKaj> asparagus perhaps?
<acheronuk> lol
<JimBuntu> bugz can be a pain
<BluesKaj> he's a troll, mostly and otherwise a pita
<BluesKaj> and an idiot :-)
<BluesKaj> runs interference
<leftyfb> oh no, he's back?
<BluesKaj> yup
<JimBuntu> leftyfb, yup
<BluesKaj> well, got stuff to do ... later
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i only know it in my language :p
<lotuspsychje> dell is doing 50% off back to school action
<lotuspsychje> acheronuk: whats the status on lts upgrade path?
<acheronuk> lotuspsychje: not seen any news apart from the fix is now in cosmic, so presumably won't be long before its pushed to other releases
<lotuspsychje> thank you acheronuk
<lotuspsychje> acheronuk: wich package should be looking for that libc?
<acheronuk> lotuspsychje: its from glibc
<lotuspsychje> ok tnx acheronuk
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: and kdeuser on gnome haha
<tomreyn> i'm not religious
<lotuspsychje> lol
<BluesKaj> guess I shouldn't interfere, but his fstab looks wrong no such thing as /swapfile , it should just be swap after the uuid or the /dev/
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: in 18.04 it uses /swapfile instead of a swap partition
<JimBuntu> You can use swap files or partitions. It is claimed that neither is really faster/better than the other. I'm guessing they had a swap file in their root, hence the /swapfile entry... but I have not looked at their fstab
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, I used 16.04  awhile back and didn't see that in fstab
<EriC^^> yeah it's a 18.04 thing
<EriC^^> frankly it's easier and better
<daftykins> it makes clean installs look like Ubuntu has become really bloated until you discover it xD
<BluesKaj> well, I'm uuiding my swap partition and my boot time is 7 secs
<EriC^^> just that usually people would come here with a misconfigured booting and i'd usually tell them to trim a few mb's from their swap partition to create a required boot partition, now that's over i guess :D
<Jens> Still no 16.04>18.04 upgrade available :(
<EriC^^> his problem isn't related to the swap, i wish i knew how to read those dreaded systemd plot's though
<EriC^^> this was his graph, "wget -O /tmp/plot.svg http://termbin.com/k1ea && xdg-open /tmp/plot.svg"
<leftyfb> Jens: It's due to this bug still being worked on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-menus/+bug/1766890
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1766890 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Bionic) "package gnome-menus 3.13.3-6ubuntu3.1 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [Undecided,In progress]
<EriC^^> what do the red lines mean? i get that the time is how long it took to start the service, and services are running at the same time, waiting for eachother etc, but what's the red lines mean?
<Jens> leftyfb: I see. So I should be safe in forcing the upgrade on my GUI-less server then?
<leftyfb> Jens: probably
<BluesKaj> I would still bet it's his fstab that causing problems
<Jens> I'll take a snapshot before in any case. I just didn't want to bother diving into this if upgrades were known to be broken.
<EriC^^> BluesKaj: he did paste it though, he only has a root "/" and /swapfile
<EriC^^> hmm come to see it..
<BluesKaj> EriC^^, I'll bet that doesn't include all his partitions ...anyway bbl
<lotuspsychje> aha gnome-menus in my updates here
<lotuspsychje> acheronuk: ^
<lotuspsychje> gnome-menus (3.13.3-11ubuntu1.1)
<lotuspsychje> libc-bin (2.27-3ubuntu1)
<acheronuk> lotuspsychje: the fix needed is actually https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.04.23
<acheronuk> not sure if they will insist of the usual 7 days in -proposed on that
<lotuspsychje> acheronuk: lets hope not, alot of users getting impatient :p
<acheronuk> I asked in #ubuntu-release, but no reply yet
<lotuspsychje> tnx for following up acheronuk
<pragmaticenigma> impatient is the understatement... I bookmarked that link though in hopes it answers questions more quickly
<pragmaticenigma> question for the group. Installation of the Signal app: What is more common do you think, installation if the Google Chrome instant app or using the Snap install method?
<Quackery> testing
<leftyfb> Quackery: testing failed
<acheronuk> lotuspsychje: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2018-August/004556.html
<acheronuk> so beginning of next week it seems for upgrades being turned on, assuming no more issues
<Quackery> I'm currently running ubuntu 16.04 on my laptop. The labtop's internal keyboard has a few keys that are causing problems, so I use an external keyboard and have turned off the internal keyboard by inserting i8042.nokbd in a line in /etc/default/grub   . What I would like to know is ....when i get the prompt from ubuntu to upgrade to 18.04, will a. the keyboard stay switched off.   b. will i have to reinsert the same line into grub.     c. will i
<Quackery> have to use a different solution to turn off the internal keyboard?????
<EriC^> Quackery: is that an instruction to a module?
<pragmaticenigma> Quackery: This is more inline with a support question, you might want to head over to the #ubuntu channel for support
<Quackery> sorry i just realized i'm in the wrong channel!!!!!
<pragmaticenigma> Quackery: all good, no worries
<Quackery> EriC^ one changes the line   GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash" to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash i8042.nokbd"   and this turns off the internal keyboard.
<pragmaticenigma> Quackery: to answer your question, when the upgrade happens, the pre-install check will see that the /etc/default/grub was modified and will ask if you to take the new version, keep the old version, or use diff to compare. I would recommend you back-up /etc/default/grub off system, take the new version and re-add your option.
<Quackery> is there likely to be differences between the old grub and the new grub? I just hope the internal keyboard doesn't play up while I'm trying to turn it off!
<pragmaticenigma> Quackery: if there are conflicts, the upgrade tool will alert you
<pragmaticenigma> Quackery: As long as you are following best practices, which it appears you are, your system should be just fine. It's always a good idea to make a back-up before an upgrade anyways, so that you can restore missing or broken later
<Quackery> I always back up my home directories/subdirectories. I'll copy grub to my home directory, back it up, install the complete new version of 18.04.01, and hope for the best!!
<Quackery> The backup tool will work after i upgrade to 18.04.01, won't it?
<daftykins> you're in the wrong channel Quackery - please do as you were recommended
<pragmaticenigma> Yeah, at this point Quackery it's best to head on over to #ubuntu
<Quackery> sure thing, sorry about that. bye
<pragmaticenigma> going to assume qwebirc18157 must be trolling
<EriC^> why pragmaticenigma
<EriC^> oddly enough many of these qweb guys replace p with b, like labtop and dublicated and whatnot, wonder if its a country specific thing
<EriC^^> infra recorder? what is that?
<oerheks> the lack of choosing a name stops me helping qwebirc dudea
<oerheks> err dudes
<EriC^^> lol imagine if 10 of the qweb guys join
<pragmaticenigma> EriC^^: infrarecorder is a cd burning tool
<EriC^^> it would be a disaster to keep track of them by the numbers at the end
<EriC^^> ah i see
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-10
<lotuspsychje> acheronuk: ok tnx
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<EriC^^> morning all
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ lordievader
<ducasse> good morning
<Beaky42> Good morning.
<EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hi Beaky42
<Beaky42> Hi lotuspsychje
<lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> all good here tnx
<ducasse> hi lordievader
<lordievader> Hey ducasse
<lordievader> How are you?
<ducasse> i'm good, thanks, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here ð
<lordievader> Any plans for today?
<EriC^^> hey lordievader
<lordievader> Morning EriC^^
<EriC^^> how are you doing?
<lordievader> Doing good here, how are you?
<EriC^^> good thank
<EriC^^> *thanks
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje
<guiverc> Howdy BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi guiverc
 * BluesKaj needs more coffee
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi lordievader
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> good here, and you?
<BluesKaj> heading to Toronto later this morning to visit my daughter then on to Windsor Ontario to visit my son on saturday, but I'll be in touch with freenode on the laptop
<lordievader> Sounds like a nice weekend
<lordievader> I'm heading to my parents this weekend.
<BluesKaj> lordievader, is it still really hot there?
<BluesKaj> temps have moderated here in the last week or so
<lordievader> It has cooled down quite a bit. Still very dry. But not as hot as a couple of weeks ago.
<BluesKaj> good
<lordievader> How is it there now? Around 20 degrees too?
<BluesKaj> more like 26 during the day
<lordievader> Oh. Well, still better than 30+.
<BluesKaj> yeah 26 isn't hot
<BluesKaj> the water temp in some of the lakes in our area is 25
<BluesKaj> normally they're 21-23
<BluesKaj> in august
<BluesKaj> later gents...take care
<hggdh> good morning all
<JimBuntu> g'morn hggdh
<hggdh> fortunately it is fresher here today, probably mid-90s only. First floow AC is down...
<daftykins> you have a unit per floor?
<hggdh> yes
<daftykins> interesting
<hggdh> standard deployment here, at least
<hggdh> (I mean, for houses. apartment buildings usually have a central unit)
<daftykins> where i am we don't have AC in homes so it's alien to me :D
<JimBuntu> daftykins, Do you have a single spigot for hot and another one for cold water?
<hggdh> yeah, not very common in non-mediteranean Europe
<hggdh> but will probably be. My last trips to Europe during summer have been miserable, with the hotel AC not being able to keep up
<daftykins> that used to be the way more in an 80s bathroom, but the norm has become to have mixer taps now
<daftykins> my hot water temp is defined by my gas fired boiler though, so i can just adjust it between seasons to meet an appropriate temp :D
<JimBuntu> I use an electric water heater, so I can adjust it as well. Good savings turning off the heater in summer while everyone is sleeping.
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> a lot of people seem to get these hot water tank setups but they seem wasteful, plus the idea of running out of hot water seems ridiculous
<JimBuntu> daftykins, agreed. on-demand is better in many ways now a days
<JimBuntu> The new electric tankless heaters are really small
<hggdh> daftykins: hot-water tanks (boilers) are pretty common here. Only recently on-demand heaters have really been available
<hggdh> so yes, running out of hot water is quite common
<leftyfb> I've got one
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-release-upgrader
<ubot5> Package ubuntu-release-upgrader does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> !info ubuntu-release-upgrader-gtk
<ubot5> ubuntu-release-upgrader-gtk (source: ubuntu-release-upgrader): manage release upgrades. In component main, is optional. Version 1:18.04.21 (bionic), package size 9 kB, installed size 201 kB
<pragmaticenigma> I will never understand why someone thinks it's an ubuntu issue when the error screen they are looking at says "MICROSOFT" at the top and is a Windows error screen of BSOD
<daftykins> hahaha
<pragmaticenigma> Linux (especially grub) doesn't spit out Hexidecimal error codes. Searching for 0cx000000e on google lands the, Windows cannot find its installation partition...
<pragmaticenigma> daftykins: You miss out on some good stuff in the main room
<daftykins> i really, really don't
<daftykins> :)
<pragmaticenigma> but your wisdom!
<mwsb> daftykins: arch is the best server os
<daftykins> frankly i no longer believe those who can't help themselves should be helped
<pragmaticenigma> Given some of the latest encounters... that's not far off
<leftyfb> pragmaticenigma: it's because they knew someone once who's sister's cousin mentioned the word linux once, so obviously it's a linux problem.
<leftyfb> mwsb: please stop with that. If you believe that, then you don't belong here.
<daftykins> leftyfb: it's fine, it's a private joke of ours
 * daftykins pats mwsb 
<leftyfb> daftykins: it's pretty annoying to see it posted in here multiple times
<oerheks> chu, yesterday it was oraclelinux ?
<daftykins> it's gonna become a really unpleasant place to be if we're not allowed to say certain things
<leftyfb> daftykins: saying things is one thing. To make a bold statement like that on multiple locations. A statement that is clearly against the majority opinion in here. We get it. mwsb has an opinion(of which he has argued as fact). It's just trolling to keep saying it
<leftyfb> locations/occasions
<pragmaticenigma> it's going to get more fun if MS moves to DaaS... I think we're going to see more converts come running
<daftykins> leftyfb: no you're 100% wrong, we're teasing someone who thinks that
<leftyfb> what am I wrong about?
<daftykins> that mwsb even remotely likes arch
<daftykins> granted it's tough to know without a smiley to confirm the sarcasm
<leftyfb> ok, carry on then :)
<leftyfb> you understand the lack of context though can get a bit annoying
<daftykins> *nod*
<leftyfb> inside jokes don't translate well on IRC
<daftykins> mwsb: we must use a winking face in future i feel
<mwsb> Lol
<pragmaticenigma> -_o okay
<pragmaticenigma> meanwhile, how long before out "helper" gets bumped?
<pragmaticenigma> s/out/our/
<EriC^^> evening guys
<oerheks> hi EriC^^
<EriC^^> hi oerheks o/
<JimBuntu> oerheks, apt update -f is basically the same as apt-get install -f, right?
<oerheks> JimBuntu, yes, apt-get is now apt, but apt-get is still a valid command
<oerheks> wait, apt update -f ???
<oerheks> never used that one
<JimBuntu> Oh lordy Tux, it will take me forever to stop using apt-get, apt-cache /etc... too much muscle memory
<oerheks> :-D
<JimBuntu> oerheks, I thought that was the command you recently told someone in main... right as I was about to suggest apt-get install -f
<oerheks> yes, linux is not static
<pragmaticenigma> i don't think apt-get is going anywhere anytime soon... I think you're safe
<hggdh> apt-get has not been obsoleted. Both still exist.
<hggdh> the main difference is apt is more "user-friendly"
<pragmaticenigma> that's the way I think of it, hggdh a more user friendly interface for aptitude
<hggdh> pragmaticenigma: for apt-get, not aptitude
<hggdh> (well, it is more friendly than aptitude as well)
<tomreyn> the apt-get vs aptitude history is a funny one. these days, almost everyone and everything seems to recommend apt-get (and apt). but there are still people sticking with aptitude. the main difference, IIRC, is that aptitude uses a different mechanism to mark packages held than apt, and that some say aptitude had a better dependency solver.
<tomreyn> i'm not sure whether these differences are still present, and whether this means we should really use or the other, and never both.
<leftyfb> it's amazing that we have 32 ops and none of them are ever around when you really need them. And they refuse to add ops that will actually ban trolls/spammers. I just don't understand the apprehension
<oerheks> tomreyn, that difference is long gone, no?
<tomreyn> oerheks: i dont know, do you?
<tomreyn> (and which difference exactly, making held packages, or resolving dependencies)
<tomreyn> *maRking
 * tomreyn nods towards leftyfb
<leftyfb> reported again
<leftyfb> look, ops that actually do their job ... amazing
<oerheks> the only advantage for aptitude is less commands to learn/remember https://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude#apt-get_to_aptitude
<oerheks> technically they are equal, IIRC
<leftyfb> el: you might want to take care of cancrogeno (~mlml@213.183.45.200) has joined #ubuntu as well before they start spamming again
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-11
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Though My name is not all ,,,, I will accept the good morning, anyway :P
<lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: a very good morning to you, even if your name ride to the stars soon
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: :D
<ducasse> tomreyn: oerheks pretty sure aptitude still uses a different algorithm to resolve dependencies, some people swear by it to figure out messes apt-get can't get out of
<ducasse> and good morning, everyone
<tomreyn> ducasse: do you know about whether they still mark packages held differently, too?
<ducasse> tomreyn: no, sorry, i don't.
<tomreyn> i'll setup a test
<ducasse> is there more than one way to do it, really? i'd think it's just a matter of setting a flag
<tomreyn> different flags though
<tomreyn> so i wrote this http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/pzB99rR5ct/
<tomreyn> and its output is this http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nX9CWy4WQP/
<tomreyn> not the greatest output design ;)
<ducasse> if it works, it works :)
<tomreyn> but it shows the following on this 18.04.1 server test system: when aptitude marks a package 'hold', all of the apt family (apt, apt-get, apt-mark), aptitude and dpkg understand it. when the apt family marks a package as 'hold', only the apt family and dpkg understand that it is hold, not aptitude.
<tomreyn> i.e. if you exclusively use the apt family you're always safe. if you mix with aptitude, aptitude is not always in the know, and may make bad decisions or corrupt the overall state.
<tomreyn> hmm i guess this actually means if you use aptitude to manage packages that were hold using the apt family, this could result in plenty of bad situations since aptitude still uses dpkg to carry out package (un)installations and dpkg does understand apt held states.
<oerheks> good talk, chris .. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/x86-hidden-god-mode,37582.html
 * oerheks facepalms
<oerheks> shall i publish the rest of the codes?
<tomreyn> which other codes, oerheks ?
<oerheks> the list is longer than that, and is known since 2012 IIRC
<oerheks> https://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/649219
<tomreyn> that's intel, 64-bit
<oerheks> Jups, but the flaw expands to intel / pro too
<oerheks> also an old processor
<tomreyn> pentium pro? yes, those are even older than via's
<Nokaji> Does the S/W Centre ever do an automatic "apt-get update"?
<Nokaji> with install
<oerheks> Nokaji, no, i think it does no update run before that
<Nokaji> oerheks: Okie, that was kinda my impression - I wondered bcuz the advice with either Terminal or Synaptic, has always been run an update first but I don't recall that ever being said of the S/W C.
<oerheks> it would be logical, though
<Nokaji> I notice in 18.04 at least, it does say UPDATE "Up to Date"
<sonicwind> tomreyn, interesting. Glad I don't use aptitude then. I just use the Apt Apt-get dpkg. Good to know though.
<tomreyn> Nokaji: this is gnome-software on both 16.04 (window in front) and 18.04 (window in background): http://i.imgur.com/rSUKXo7.png - note the tiny 'refresh' icon top left.
<tomreyn> it's only available once the 'updates' tab has been selected.
<Nokaji> tomreyn: Yup, I've never noticed it in S/W C before now but then I never looked for it, using the alternative methods
<Nokaji> or form the TopBar
<Nokaji> which was set to 'auto', so was the default
<Nokaji> maybe I'll be able to devote a little more time to understanding the intricacies of linux in the forthcoming period ... may even dual boot with an alternative distro, now I've 'fixed' my pc - looking at a debian kde type at the mo'
<lotuspsychje> good evening to all
<sonicwind> hey lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey sonicwind how are you tonight
<sonicwind> I'm doing OK
<lotuspsychje> nice
<sonicwind> I have a new desktop PC that I hope to get going in the next few days... I think I'm going to jump into the big bad world of UEFI.
<lotuspsychje> whats your plan sonicwind
<sonicwind> trying to read up on what all is going to go wrong for me LOL
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: whats your endgoal?
<sonicwind> hope to have Windows 10 on the internal, with Ubuntu running on my external dock. I've been reading tons of stuff on AskUbuntu & ubuntuforums. All of sudodus' posts and more.
<sonicwind> I previously had a similar setup with Windows 7, but without UEFI.
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: with external you mean an usb harddisk?
<sonicwind> yes
<sonicwind> I have   a great dock I put them in.
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: i would not reccomend that, as usb bottlenecks speed
<sonicwind> worked great with Win 7
<sonicwind> I was fine with it. It was plenty fast.
<sonicwind> I don't do anything demanding
<lotuspsychje> right
<sonicwind> most demanding thing I do is watch HD videos sometimes or video on YouTube, and it was fine for that
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: do you game on w10?
<sonicwind> no
<sonicwind> don't game at all
<sonicwind> not in 20 years lol
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: why do you need w10 for specificly?
<sonicwind> only because the new desktop came with it... so might as well try it while I have it, no? I didn't want it. Wish I still had Win 7 lol.
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: you could make your life easy, make an usb backup of your w10, install ubuntu single on your main internet hd
<sonicwind> startup time doesn't matter to me... I wake up, start the computer and go get breakfast. Then its on all day.
<lotuspsychje> and run w10 in a virtualbox or so if you wanna test
<sonicwind> HP no longer includes software to make a copy of the windows 10. HP Recovery Manager or whatever its called
<sonicwind> new this year
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: think w10 has an own backup to usb thing now
<lotuspsychje> ask daftykins when you see him
<sonicwind> thats all the stuff I'm still working out
<sonicwind> just hope this laptop doesn't die on me while I'm sorting that all out. I think I've decided not to use Secure Boot. Just seems to complicate stuff.
<sonicwind> I do plan to make a Macrium Reflect image of the Windows 10 once its installed.
<sonicwind> if it all goes bad and I blow up Windows 10, that's fine too. Then I will just stick Ubuntu on the internal.
<lotuspsychje> !uefi
<ubot5> UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<sonicwind> yep
<sonicwind> I've been reading up for days.
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: when you see eric, poke him to help you on yefi
<sonicwind> who is eric
<sonicwind> is that his username?
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: he's our uefi wizard
<sonicwind> ok
<sonicwind> I see two eric's in #ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: he's not here atm
<sonicwind> ok... his username is just 'eric' ?
<lotuspsychje> sonicwind: EriC^^ like this
<sonicwind> oh yes I've seen him... thanks
<lotuspsychje> he will join here in discuss daily
<lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
<tomreyn> a short day
<lotuspsychje> or connect problems
<lotuspsychje> he's from lebanon
<lotuspsychje> not always stable
<lotuspsychje> !ping | EriC^^
<ubot5> EriC^^: pong!
<tomreyn> oh ok
#ubuntu-discuss 2018-08-12
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-graphics-driver-390
<ubot5> Package nvidia-graphics-driver-390 does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-driver-390
<ubot5> nvidia-driver-390 (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers-390): NVIDIA driver metapackage. In component restricted, is optional. Version 390.48-0ubuntu3 (bionic), package size 368 kB, installed size 1066 kB
<Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Just for think'n purposes ... the -77 driver for bionic is in the PPA .
<lotuspsychje> yes i notice Bashing-om
<ducasse> good morning
<EriC^^> morning everyone
<pauljw> hi everyone
<lotuspsychje> !info rasdeamon bionic
<ubot5> Package rasdeamon does not exist in bionic
<lotuspsychje> !info rasdeamon xenial
<ubot5> Package rasdeamon does not exist in xenial
<lotuspsychje> !info rasdaemon
<ubot5> rasdaemon (source: rasdaemon): utility to receive RAS error tracings. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.6.0-1ubuntu0.1 (bionic), package size 78 kB, installed size 245 kB
<tomreyn> search is borked
<tomreyn> i think it runs on an ubuntu-live server which has only 'main' enabled ;)
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: testing it on bionic, works like a charm here
<lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@R00TBOOK:~$ ras-mc-ctl --summary
<lotuspsychje> No Memory errors.
<lotuspsychje> No PCIe AER errors.
<lotuspsychje> No Extlog errors.
<lotuspsychje> No MCE errors.
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: want me to add it as test, its working on bionic?
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: add what as a test, resulting in what?
<tomreyn> wlel rasdaemon probably, but what kind of test and how would testing it have consequences (and what is my say in this)?
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rasdaemon/+bug/1771338
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1771338 in rasdaemon (Ubuntu) "Lacks dependencies (depends)" [Undecided,New]
<tomreyn> oh are  you saying you didn't need to install extra depednencies on 18.04.1?
<lotuspsychje> indeed tomreyn want the full output first?
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: https://hastebin.com/hatiwidoci.sql
<tomreyn> well maybe you just had the dependencies installed already?
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: not sure, how can i see?
<tomreyn> if this doesn't break other packages for you: sudo apt purge rasdaemon libdbd-sqlite3-perl libdbi-perl; sudo apt install rasdaemon; sudo ras-mc-ctl --summary
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: https://hastebin.com/ehibayidix.sql
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: so apparently (not sure why really) this is not an issue on 18.04, can you add this information to the bug report?
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: the last hastebin or the first
<tomreyn> the last one, i'd say. but in english ;)
<lotuspsychje> ok
<tomreyn> export LANG=C   # then just re-reun it
<tomreyn> *re-run
<tomreyn> you could also purge sqlite3 and rm -rf /var/lib/rasdaemon during the preparational phase to make the test complete
<tomreyn> so that's:
<tomreyn> export LANG=C; sudo apt purge rasdaemon sqlite3 libdbd-sqlite3-perl libdbi-perl; sudo rm -rf /var/lib/rasdaemon; sudo apt install rasdaemon; sudo ras-mc-ctl --summary
<tomreyn> it'll still work without error, just tried it on my VM, too.
<lotuspsychje> added comment
<lotuspsychje> in short
<tomreyn> thanks you, lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> np tomreyn , the other bugs on your list, not relevant for me
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: and funny rainbox bug hahaha
<tomreyn> if you have a 16.04 system / VM  and could confirm it there, this would be even more helpful, moving this out of the 'New' to 'Confirmed' status
<lotuspsychje> rainbow
<tomreyn> :) yes
<tomreyn> you dont use ubuntu server?
<lotuspsychje> no sorry
<lotuspsychje> think more for nacc ducasse leftyfb
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: dont have a xenial handy right now
<tomreyn> cool, thank for your time
<tomreyn> *thankS
<lotuspsychje> no sweat
<lotuspsychje> bbl dinner scampi tomato pineapple salad
<lotuspsychje> http://www.webupd8.org/2017/06/tool-to-create-bootable-windows-usb.html#more
<lotuspsychje> have a nice evening, tv time
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-05
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<marcoagpinto> The cola demon!!!!
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<lotuspsychje> first clevo customer called, ill see if its about the kernel 5 flickering..
<lotuspsychje> mail from my reseller he suggests to switch to 4.18 again and purge 5*
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj! lotuspsychje! Hello my dear beloved brothers!
<BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> I am drinking some cola
<marcoagpinto> :)
<pragmaticenigma> !uefi
<ubot5> UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<pragmaticenigma> well, that escalated quickly
<pragmaticenigma> I don't think I'm wrong in that we shouldn't be attempting to support compiling in main... esepcially something like DKMS, shouldn't that be handled in #ubuntu-dev or similar? where there would be people more skilled for that topic?
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: the problem was the user's own dkms.conf was wrong but that was due to a really poor Intel-provided Makefile
<TJ-> pragmaticenigma: if bviktor returns point them to http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6pj2hFYwXV/
<jeremy31> Easier to fix dkms.conf than the Makefile
<pragmaticenigma> That's sort of my thought... we can help resolve a configuration file issue, but to help someone along with a compile of a system resource like that is really pushing the outer limits of the rooms purpose.
<pragmaticenigma> I'd hate for a new user to come in, right in the middle of a topic like that and figure their problem isn't important enough and leave (or worse, decide Ubuntu isn't for them)
<jeremy31> The Makefile and dkms.conf in rtl8812au-dkms might still be wrong
<tomreyn> lotuspsychje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-hwe/+bug/1838979
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1838979 in linux-hwe (Ubuntu) "[i915] framebuffer console flickers on 5.0.0 kernel" [Undecided,New]
<tomreyn> "[i915] framebuffer console flickers on 5.0.0 kernel"
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: wow, nice find mate
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: we should ask him to apport-collect right
<lotuspsychje> updated bug #1838979
<ubot5> bug 1838979 in linux-hwe (Ubuntu) "[i915] framebuffer console flickers on 5.0.0 kernel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838979
<lotuspsychje> food time first :p
<tomreyn> good that you asked. :)
<lotuspsychje> tnx for the notice tomreyn
<tomreyn> model/type of computer will be in DMI: in the kernel log if he'll apport-collect, i guess. but it's probably good you asked in case he doesn't want to provide logs.
<lotuspsychje> bbl in a bit
<tomreyn> you're welcome.
<Bashing-om> UWN590 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue590 :D
<tomreyn> sarnold: here's what i wrote to Intelo 7.5 hours ago after they posted those screenshots for the first time:
<tomreyn> looks like bios bugs, is newer firmware available? this should tell you the exact model name and BIOS version:   journalctl -b | grep 'DMI:'    # then you check on the computer support section of the website of the vendor for bios updates for this very model. the current firmware version is also listed during early boot (unless full screen logo is enabled, which can be disabled in bios setup or by hardware specific keys), as well as in
<tomreyn> the bios setup. please consult the manual of the computer you acquired, this is not an #ubuntu but a ##hardware topic.
<tomreyn> It is clearly a communication / focus issue, as Sven_vB pointed out.
<tomreyn> this chat has been evolving in circles ever since. i gave up at some point, then EriC tried, and yet others. i don't see a solution.
<tomreyn> certainly there's a solution to the technical issues.
<sarnold> tomreyn: thanks -- nice to know that my initial reaction matched yours :)
<sarnold> tomreyn: and I suspect you've saved me a fair chunk of future time, hehe
<jeremy31> Anyone know why sudo apt update downloads some Content amd64 and others that are fairly large files?
<tomreyn> sarnold: i'd be glad if so. ;)
<tomreyn> jeremy31: maybe they aren't compressed on this apt repo? i think it's up to the repo maintainer to decide on compression (or not)
<jeremy31> tomreyn: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic amd64 Contents (deb) [39.5 MB]
<tomreyn> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/bionic/
<tomreyn> correct sized, and it's compressed
<jeremy31> Is there a way to disable this?
<tomreyn> apt-file needs this, do you have it installed?
<jeremy31> tomreyn: I believe I installed apt-file
<jeremy31> thanks
<tomreyn> i assume it registers an apt hook so this is refreshed automatically on updates
<tomreyn> but i don't know for sure
<tomreyn> yes, exactly, it's in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50apt-file.conf
<jeremy31> no wonder why it was hard to find
<sarnold> while you're there, look around for the appstream stuff. I disabled that ages ago because it kept downloading huge tarballs of icons I never viewed
<sarnold> if you're curious about this, you seem likely to be curious about that, too :)
<tomreyn> oh nice, i was always wondering what that was
<tomreyn> just the icons for the software store
<tomreyn> in (up to, i assume) 5 formats + metadata.
<tomreyn> wohoo, apt is fast again!
<sarnold> yay :D
<sarnold> I feel a bit bad about that -- I'm *really* not seeing what our users see. On the other hand, my god that was terrible and I have literally never seen those icons in use.
<tomreyn> well i did. i want to understand what novice users get to see. and as it stands now, when they want to install additional software, they get to see icons from snap store and apt repos (snaps first), and that's how they then make choices.
<tomreyn> assuming all is equal, of course
<tomreyn> i assume ubuntus (canonicals) new single-brand software store will be more performant / efficient. (i'm not sure it will do better in terms of informing users about the results of their choices.)
<OerHeks> i would love to see a menu 'apt/snap/flatpack/git*' in synaptic
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-06
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> :)
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: updated bug #1838979
<ubot5> bug 1838979 in linux-hwe (Ubuntu) "[i915] framebuffer console flickers on 5.0.0 kernel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1838979
<marcoagpinto> Hey
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> <john60> Hi guys. I am running Ubuntu 18.04.3 with Kernel: 5.0.0-23-generic x86_64 and my laptop is hard freezing 2-3x /hr. Here is my inxi -Fz output https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xNTRCwc2ts/
<lotuspsychje> another fun of kernel 5
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: Any idea when the Kernel 5 will be fixed? I am scared to turn on the VMs
<marcoagpinto> :)
<lotuspsychje> marcoagpinto: not everyone is experiencing issues on 5.0 live dangerous try a test?
<marcoagpinto> I don't like to live dangerously
<marcoagpinto> :)
<tomreyn> try with one, downgrade  if needed.
<marcoagpinto> tomreyn: I am little and scared
<marcoagpinto> a little cola demon
<tomreyn> it's not like it wont boot anymore. as long as you can access grub (and haven't uninstalled past kernel images, which won't happen automatically while there aren't multiple 5.0 kernel images, yet), you can just switch back to the previous kernel image from grub menu.
<tomreyn> so it's actually better to test earlier than later.
<OerHeks> but kernel 4.8 is heavier than 5.0.0-23, package size 2.4kb vs 2.2kb
<TJ-> kernel 2.4KB? no way!
<jeremy31> meta package
<OerHeks> https://packages.ubuntu.com/disco-updates/linux-image-generic
<TJ-> indeed :P
<OerHeks> jups,..
<BluesKaj> Hey folks
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!!!! Hello!!!!
<marcoagpinto> It is your brother demon here
<BluesKaj> I'm no demon:-)
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> sorry... I had to go to the store to buy cola
<lotuspsychje> welcome lastebill1
<lastebill1> hi!
<lotuspsychje> lastebill1: wich ubuntu are you running on it
<lastebill1> I'm running disco dingo
<lotuspsychje> running like a charm?
<lastebill1> yes, my only real issue is the trackpad working better on windows.  It tends to mess up my typing.  Can probably be fixed with a little bit of tweaking
<lastebill1> I get like 4 hours of battery life on windows and 8 on ubuntu 19
<lastebill1> it's my first go at standard ubuntu, I've been using lubuntu so far mostly
<lotuspsychje> neat
<lastebill1> I installed synclient yesterday, since the standard trackpad driver didn't seem to support coasting
<lastebill1> the drawback is that now it seems like the touchpad is much more vulnerable to my palm touching it, leading to mistyping
<lastebill1> seemed like the standard ubuntu touchpad drivers had that part figured out better
<lotuspsychje> lastebill1: there are some settings in gnome-tweak-tool and/or dconf-editor if you like lastebill1
<lastebill1> hmm, yeah, I did install the dconf-editor yesterday to disable the password requirement when in hibernation.  I've got to check out the gnome-tweak-tool though
<lastebill1> lotuspsychje you wouldn't happen to be able to direct me to information about how notebook users tend to set up their trackpads by chance?   Would be nice to see that rather than trying to hit and miss set it up
<lotuspsychje> lastebill1: setup to do what?
<JimBuntu> lastebill1, if Synaptic - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad
<lastebill1> JimBuntu thanks!
<JimBuntu> You're welcome lastebill1 , my guess is it's the sensitivity that needs adjusting.
<lastebill1> lotuspsychje my right arm tend to start hurting rather quickly if the track pad isn't comfortable.   Got to be other people with simular sensitivity when it comes to using notebooks, that have already figured it out.  Honestly, windows have figured it out, but well, double battery life is a big motivation for me to use ubuntu
<lotuspsychje> lastebill1: did you actually test the battery life, or does it show 8h remaining?
<lotuspsychje> i had some laptop brands making weird battery jumps on bionic
<JimBuntu> My solution to touchpad issues is to not use the touchpad, lol.
<lastebill1> ok, I need to actually check it out I guess
<lastebill1> I honestly had to disable the grapics card (mx150) to improve the battery to comfortable levels
<lastebill1> before that the battery life seemed windowsy
<lotuspsychje> lastebill1: you can also checkout laptop-mode-tools
<lastebill1> I've also disabled the grapics card in windows, but it doesn't seem to do the trick
<JimBuntu> If that MX150 is a N17S-G1-A1, that would explain the power draw as that model is a 25W GPU
<JimBuntu> The N17S-LG-A1 is only 10W, so not as bad, but also performs like a lesser card/chip too.
<lastebill1> right.  It's really easy to disable it in ubuntu.  I had to go into the device manager of windows to disable it though, since the whole nvidea grapics driver thing in windows is very bloated
<lastebill1> didn't seem to turn it properly off or something though
<lastebill1> very bloated without useful functionality...
<tomreyn> did anyone other than TJ- see hydrian say anythng in #ubuntu after this?  <hydrian> That's with the 4GB version of the problem VM running.
<tomreyn> i assume hydrian must be using notices to respond.
<daftykins> that's an incredibly annoying way to use IRC
<tomreyn> i'm just wondering whteher it's just me, maybe a client misconfiguration.
<TJ-> I don't see any replies either
<JimBuntu> tomreyn, my logs do not show hydrian posting after that
<tomreyn> oh ok
<TJ-> It's so bright here I can barely make out some conversations anyhow due to colours
<tomreyn> i was puzzled since TJ- said "hydrian: lots of # comments in those configs," but i didn't see any configs posted
 * JimBuntu turns down TJ-'s monitor brightness levels... on all of them
 * TJ- is finally getting rather tired of hitting bugs that interfere with work on a basic level, on 18.04!
<TJ-> Grrr, that was JimBuntu ... dark blue on black! but if I switch to black-on-white theme, I lost tomryn in yellow!
<daftykins> TJ-: back into the darkened rooms you go ;)
 * TJ- mulls over which
<TJ-> daftykins: I'm debating it but its a lovely 35C here!
<TJ-> even got a fan going to keep the notebook cool :)
<daftykins> haha, you're braver than me - i'm done in the low 20s
<TJ-> great, ANOTHER bug! no mouse clicks passing through in virt-manager/libvirt, but movement is! This worked 2 days ago, grrr bloody grrr
<TJ-> so what was supposed to be a 5 minute VM test as to whether xubuntu 1910 build has fixed a nasty thunar hanging bug... is turning into a half-day marathon !
<daftykins> xD
<TJ-> I think I'll go combine the wheat... at least it stays harvested!
<tomreyn> unless there are any gnomes running aroun din the fields
<TJ-> urghh!
<JimBuntu> TJ-, I seldom say anything, so go with the scheme that makes mine invisible ;p
<daftykins> amusingly Jim is also dark blue on black for me
<TJ-> not even sure where to start on this mouse no-click issue!
<daftykins> stealth-Jim i shall consider him
<TJ-> daftykins: I think the colours are calculated based on a hash of the nickname
<daftykins> hmm, think it's just character length here with nickcolor.pl in irssi
<daftykins> as i often see people with the same nickname length get the same colour
<TJ-> hmmm, seems a strange way to decide, although fast
<daftykins> sometimes i unload and reload that plugin if the choices are annoying me
<TJ-> I use my 'follow' script to break out indivudual (support) conversations into a separate buffer so those aren't a problem for me
<TJ-> general chat on the other hand...!
<TJ-> OK, it was the VNC client link to the guest, switched to Spice protocol and it is working
<TJ-> hmmm, seeing this in journal "... automount ... triggered by 21339 (gmain)" assumed 21339 is a PID but there is no such process and the message keeps repeating... any ideas?
<TJ-> oh doh, it's a thread, needed "ps -eFl" to show it
 * JimBuntu grabs the popcorn... pours everyone some on their own plates... this might get interesting.
<leftyfb> yeah, totally done with that one
<JimBuntu> !cookie leftyfb for not going off the deep end.
<ubot5> JimBuntu: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<JimBuntu> !cookie | leftyfb for not going off the deep end.
<ubot5> leftyfb for not going off the deep end.: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<daftykins> another undesirable customer eh?
<tomreyn> ubot more into metal parts, just ubottu likes cookies.
<tomreyn> or i just didnt read properly
<pragmaticenigma> I think ubot is on a cookie bender
<lotuspsychje> welcome BriggsE
<lotuspsychje> BriggsE: here we discuss & idle to make #ubuntu better, also discuss relevant bugs about ubuntu etc
<lotuspsychje> BriggsE: the ubuntu developers sit in #ubuntu-devel you might also go take a look
<BriggsE> :)
<BriggsE> Thank you
<EoflaOE> Hello lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey there EoflaOE
<lotuspsychje> how are you doing?
<EoflaOE> I am doing fine
<lotuspsychje> great
<EoflaOE> And you?
<lotuspsychje> all good on this side tnx
<EoflaOE> Nice. I reported another bug about man-db and the fix is released. did you see that?
<lotuspsychje> cool, dconf can set dash to the left on dock
<nacc> TJ-: i wouldn't bother, based upon what I've read so far, they seem not interested in getting help
<TJ-> nacc: oh I know but that particular person needs countering at times.
<nacc> TJ-: ack :)
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-07
<OerHeks> next intel  SWAPGS/WSGRBASE -leak... https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/08/silent-windows-update-patched-side-channel-that-leaked-data-from-intel-cpus/
<OerHeks> good thing: Exploiting the vulnerability using JavaScript is not possible
<OerHeks> "SWAPGS attack" https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2019/08/06/microsoft-confirms-new-windows-cpu-attack-vulnerability--advises-all-users-to-update-now/#4a44755173f8
<OerHeks> .. maybe AMD too ..
<pragmaticenigma> but "sudo apt full-upgrade windows10" doesn't work
<OerHeks> you must log out as ghost user first?
<pragmaticenigma> oh
<OerHeks> you know, user 0
<pragmaticenigma> maybe that's what I'm doing wrong
<pragmaticenigma> I have user -1... does that work?
<OerHeks> oke, put 2 fingers in your nose, and turn your mouse upside down
<OerHeks> then reboot by pulling the powercor...wait
<OerHeks> -1 ?
<pragmaticenigma> how do i turn my mouse upside down and pull the powercord if my fingers are in mah nose?
<OerHeks> man user -1 ; are you pregnant?
<sarnold> no no put your fingers in your mouse and turn your nose upside down
<pragmaticenigma> ah, makes more sense
<pragmaticenigma> dang-nab-it...the mouse bit me
 * pragmaticenigma goes and gets badages and a hammer
<pragmaticenigma> so ... um ... anyone know where I can get a new mouse, relatively cheap these days?
<OerHeks> sometimes 2nd hand stores have nice mouses
<pragmaticenigma> eewww... don't want a mouse that someone used while watchin naughty film
<pragmaticenigma> brand new please
<pragmaticenigma> :-D
<OerHeks> yes, i know, the mousewheel is the dirtiest place on earth
<pragmaticenigma> for sure!
<sarnold> .. right after the human mind
<OerHeks> hop on your bicycle, i have a trackpad somewhere
<OerHeks> 52.3929173 N  4.6250156 W
<pragmaticenigma> uh ohes... I'm negatives longitudes... that's gunna be a long bike ride
<sarnold> don't be so hard on yourself I'm sure you could be more positive if you put your mind to it
<sarnold> also I think you'll want to bring some goggles and flipperdeals
<OerHeks> carefull for the sharks!
<sarnold> they're more scared of you than you are of them
<pragmaticenigma> say that to the 36 shark attacks this past month on the eastern seaboard of the north american continent
<OerHeks> yeah, i read that, knee deep water ..
<OerHeks> and what about those asian carps ...
<OerHeks> are they not tasty?
<pragmaticenigma> carp doesn't typically make for good eating, but they make a fine fertilizer for farm fields I hear
<pragmaticenigma> I guess dependin on who you ask, they might make a decent meal: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eat-the-enemy-asian-carp_n_6324896
<Bashing-om> Carp == pressure cooker == fish patties :)
<pragmaticenigma> dog food is what my dad would call that
<Bashing-om> pragmaticenigma: Truth !
<tomreyn> mcdonals calls it chicken mc nuggets
<OerHeks> here we have 'kibbeling', fish pieces in crust ..
<OerHeks> nobody can tell what fish and what part :-D
<OerHeks> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Kibbeling_001.JPG
<tomreyn> or whether
<tomreyn> maybe veggie food is much more common than we all think
<pragmaticenigma> anything deep fried and served with a mayo/ranch type dressing is probably hard for anyone to resist
<OerHeks> Ravigott sauce... the secret
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> bed bugs?
<OerHeks> hi lotus
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> i had my hours, all good :p
<lordievader> Good morning
<EoflaOE> Good morning
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<EoflaOE> hello BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi EoflaOE
<EoflaOE> BluesKaj: Launchpad got attacked by spammers because I have seen questions and bugs that are spammy
<BluesKaj> that comes with the territory, it's not new
<EoflaOE> BluesKaj: Yes. I know that is not new.
<BluesKaj> even linux users can be spammers
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!!!! Hello!!!!
<marcoagpinto> My dear brother!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<EoflaOE> BluesKaj: Yes. And the questions to "Launchpad itself" are filled with "Please remove spam..." and hi marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> hi
<BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
<EoflaOE> I have made a blog site which is focused on tech and Ubuntu. Do you want to check it out?
<marcoagpinto> me?
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> I have been working on the GB speller + thesis since 6am
<marcoagpinto> I have no life :(
<EoflaOE> Yes. Do you want?
<marcoagpinto> sure
<EoflaOE> https://eofla.wordpress.com
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<marcoagpinto> it has a story... the Professor said that my thesis isn't a story :(
<marcoagpinto> reading your page makes me realise how the professor was right
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Thank you so much.
<marcoagpinto> the text flows naturally in your page
<marcoagpinto> damn... it is so well written
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Yes. I proofread as I write.
<marcoagpinto> yes, so do I in my thesis and use a grammar checker, LanguageTool
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Nice. I found a bug in Nautilus on Ubuntu 19.10
<marcoagpinto> I haven't used my VMs because of the Kernel 5 issues
<marcoagpinto> but I guess 18.04 won't update it since it is the ESR
<marcoagpinto> LTS
<EoflaOE> OK. My Ubuntu VM on VirtualBox is stable.
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: You would be the right person to improve my thesis... if I win the EuroMillions on Friday I will pay you :p
<marcoagpinto> jk
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> OK.
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: https://i.imgur.com/udCcMqT.png
<JimBuntu> thesis time...
 * JimBuntu slides a frosted mug of root beer to marcoagpinto 
<lotuspsychje> no alcohol for marco
<lotuspsychje> slide it to lotus
<pragmaticenigma> oh boy... :-(
<lotuspsychje> its true, he takes meds...
<JimBuntu> that was root beer, not fermented beer
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> I don't drink alcohol
<marcoagpinto> I take medicines
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: ^
 * lotuspsychje burps lol
<marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaa... I am so stressed... >:)
<lotuspsychje> ./join #irc-therapy
<marcoagpinto> :p
<marcoagpinto> I will try to nap in two hours
<pragmaticenigma> marcoagpinto: Take two hours of this, and call the doctor the next morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB-qEYVdvXA
<marcoagpinto> ohhhh... cats
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I too have cats at hom
<marcoagpinto> home*
<pragmaticenigma> you didn't bring them with you to work?
<pizzaiolo> every place needs a shop cat
<marcoagpinto> what?
<marcoagpinto> I am at home
<marcoagpinto> I only work on the weekends
<pragmaticenigma> how are you stressed??!!??!!
<marcoagpinto> and last weekend I was depressed and didn't go... and the doctors are in vacation
<marcoagpinto> pragmaticenigma: too much going on
<pizzaiolo> marcoagpinto right there with ya
<tomreyn> i'm a bit late on this but ... DebConf talks with videos: https://debconf19.debconf.org/talks
<nicomachus> which releases are on the 5.0 kernel? I've been paying so little attention I didn't even know 5.0 was out.
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: 19.04 and 18.04 with hwe
<nicomachus> lotuspsychje: huh. Pretty sure I have hwe on my 18.04 but I'm still on 4.15
<lotuspsychje> brb gotta eat first
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: if you installed bionic from the start you have 4.15
<lotuspsychje> nicomachus: if you download the iso currently you got 5.0 now
<nicomachus> gotcha
<daftykins> nasty nasty HWEs
<daftykins> ;)
<sonicwind> RIP   https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/cnazeh/osdisccom_is_no_longer_in_business/
<tomreyn> have any of you use me_cleaner against a cherry trail and can discuss their experiences?
<tomreyn> or any cpu really
<sarnold> I wouldn't test it on any system I needed to work..
<daftykins> is this something that's meant to disable the Intel Management Engine?
<tomreyn> yes it is
<tomreyn> i'm visiting a friend wh's got a matching flasher, so this seems worthwhile.
<tomreyn> and, yes, i don't depend on this system to work.
<daftykins> heh i'm running prime95 on the Dell Precision laptops i got for a friend and client recently, the 45W hex core i7 coffee lake CPUs are almost hitting 100 deg C on a couple of cores in one of them
<tomreyn> better don't touch them!
<tomreyn> is this with the latest bios installed?
<daftykins> first thing i do with new kit :)
<daftykins> BIOS, ME, thunderbolt firmware... the list goes on
<daftykins> normally i'd be happy to pop them open and replace the paste in case it'll help
<tomreyn> i wouldn't even know how to upgrade thunderbolt firmware - but then i don't have any systems which have this.
<daftykins> just Windows utilities provided on Dell's downloads page for the model
<daftykins> amusingly, the tool first powers on the controller - the OS suddenly goes "oh hey, new hardware..." and sets it up, so the updater fails as it doesn't find the device within a given time window... then you run it a second time and it's all fine
<tomreyn> i see. so... if they get this hot then they're hopefully meant to? what do those specs say?
<daftykins> well one of them is nudging its' Tj Max so that doesn't seem too ideal, i'm tempted to have a go at the paste but i've got the service manual open and it looks a decent bit involved compared to usual
<tomreyn> :-/
<daftykins> plus... it feels kind of wrong to mess when it's new and under warranty :D
<tomreyn> i guess you can't custom control the fan speeds either
<daftykins> wouldn't want to fight its' own choices really, they're definitely running high :D
<daftykins> huge twin fan twin heatpipe design too, so i'm really glad i didn't go with the other models that have far worse cooling
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-08
<OerHeks> spam! .. https://ubuntu.com/blog/enhancing-our-zfs-support-on-ubuntu-19-10-an-introduction
<OerHeks> :-P
<Bashing-om> tomreyn: I ran across this today: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-Open-GPU-Docs <- NVIDIA Starts Publishing GPU Hardware Documentation To Help Open-Source Drivers.
<daftykins> O_O
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<OerHeks> https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linux-journal-ceases-publication-awkward-goodbye
<lotuspsychje> huh
<lotuspsychje> my ##techrss is full of it this morning
<antimatroid> lotuspsychje: howdy
<lotuspsychje> morning antimatroid
<antimatroid> afternoon :)
 * antimatroid is in Australia
<lotuspsychje> nautilus have been gone to compact mode, dont like all their features myself..
<lotuspsychje> like the file transfer circle..
<antimatroid> it does a search of files/dirs when I type rather than just going to the file I want too, that's slow
<XRS1> everythings been broken since 13.04.
<antimatroid> 14.04 was wonderful
<antimatroid> I
<XRS1> its all down
<antimatroid> only put it to bed yesterday
<antimatroid> XRS1: have you tried gnome-session-flashback?
<XRS1> i havent but i've seen that flash across the screen b4
<antimatroid> I love it
<antimatroid> so good for getting work done
<antimatroid> I hate docks
<antimatroid> boy am I glad gnome-session-flashback exists, I prefer it to mate
<antimatroid> even though they're very similar
<marcoagpinto> Heya!!!! The Demon!!!
<EoflaOE> hi marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> Hello dear brother!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> I am drinking some cola!
<marcoagpinto> what's up?
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: I am doing fine.
<marcoagpinto> I am finishing installing LibreOffice 6.3.0.4
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> Nice.
<marcoagpinto> I had already installed .0.3 on three laptops but then they released .0.4
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> OK.
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: https://www.purebasic.fr/english/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73349
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Yes. I saw that. I chose a clever picture.
<marcoagpinto> damn... the IDE looks so good
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> so many colours
<EoflaOE> Yes. There are so many colors in that IDE.
<marcoagpinto> ahhhh
<marcoagpinto> I have just installed a "dark theme" for PureBasic IDE
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> now it looks like the one in your webpage
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Nice.
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: https://i.imgur.com/5Hkp0kY.png
<marcoagpinto> this is how the IDE looks like now
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> with the dark theme
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Nice theme. By the way what languages does this IDE support?
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: It is PureBasic's IDE
<marcoagpinto> based on Sinctilla or whatever it is called
<marcoagpinto> a forum user told me there were themes, so I did a quick look for them and found
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Yes, but what languages (like C++, C, etc.) does it compile?
<marcoagpinto> I installed the "Dark Theme"
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: I believe it only compiles PureBasic
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> it is the language I use
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I could learn Java or C++ but I am a lazy arse
<marcoagpinto> I received job offers to Java
<marcoagpinto> but I code as a hobby
<marcoagpinto> also, my PhD project was coded in PureBasic
<marcoagpinto> 80 000 lines of code
<marcoagpinto> ~6 years to develop
<EoflaOE>  marcoagpinto: Nice. I code VB.NET the most, but I code some Java, Batch and Shell (.sh). However I don't code PureBasic. I think that your project is large. What does it do?
<marcoagpinto> it is a simulator
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> to predict the outcome of conflicts using the information theory
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I never thought I would be able to do it
<marcoagpinto> but, in the end, I always do things
<marcoagpinto> I take time but do them
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Nice. I am making a kernel simulator for my planned kernel in the future. https://github.com/EoflaOE/Kernel-Simulator
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> well, I guess I could rewrite the 80 000 lines of code now that i have deeper knowledge of PureBasic
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: make it ~7 years instead of ~6 years
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I started in 2013 and it is almost 2020
<marcoagpinto> my knowledge has increased
<marcoagpinto> I have so many ideas for the project!!!!
<marcoagpinto> but a friend helped me with the graphics for free and I can't ask him to do more graphics for free
<marcoagpinto> the GUI gave a lot of work and he has done tons of images
<EoflaOE> Nice. Line numbers kept increasing currently in my project as it grows bigger.
<marcoagpinto> I need to win the EuroMillions tomorrow to dedicate all my free time to the projects
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> I hope you win.
<marcoagpinto> thanks
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> you are welcome
<marcoagpinto> I made 4 draws with my EuroMillions software
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> Yes. Just a question: Are you running Ubuntu? I test Ubuntu 19.10 and several flavors.
<marcoagpinto> EoflaOE: I am using Windows 10
<marcoagpinto> I have Ubuntu on the other laptop in VMs
<marcoagpinto> 18.04 x2 + 19.04 x1
<EoflaOE> Very nice. I am running Lubuntu 19.10 upgraded from 18.04 on the old PC, and Ubuntu 19.10 and Ubuntu Budgie 19.10 in VMs on my new PC
<marcoagpinto> I used to have VMs also with Kubuntu and Xubuntu but I no longer need to take screenshots of Proofing Tool GUI on them, since I know it works there
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: Nice. What year did you discover and use Ubuntu? I have discovered it in 2012 when I was 8 and used it in late 2015 or early 2016
<marcoagpinto> I believe it was in 2013 :)
<marcoagpinto> I wanted to develop Proofing Tool GUI to other platforms
<marcoagpinto> so, I installed Ubuntu here but this computer is old and doesn't support hardware virtualisation
<marcoagpinto> so, I used to ask to a user in the forum to compile PTG to 64-bit
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> then, later, I used to run Ubuntu in a pen drive in a 10'' laptop I bought and I believe I was able to compile it there
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> anyway, my other laptop supports 64-bit virtualisation, so I no longer need no nag people to compile for me
<EoflaOE> Nice. I have the old PC from 2004 which won't do hardware virtualization, but my new PC can do everything I need to do because it has SSE2 and VT-X.
<marcoagpinto> well, the VMs machine is a dual-core celeron... it is kind of slow but it does the job
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> OK. My new PC is Intel Core i7-8700 and can start Ubuntu without any slowness. It can load Linux kernel initramfs in 0.1 secs. My processor can do enough to play games and do VM at the same time.
<marcoagpinto> after I finish the PhD I will buy a 1200-1300 EUR laptop
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> depending on how much $$$$ I will have at the time
<marcoagpinto> right now I can't risk
<marcoagpinto> I need to be sure the exam will be in the North of Portugal
<marcoagpinto> in here it costs 6500 EUR and in the North 2000 EUR
<marcoagpinto> :)
<EoflaOE> Nice.
<marcoagpinto> the North would be nicer
<marcoagpinto> but I am scared to ask the professor
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> after the cosupervisor approves the thesis, I will ask
<EoflaOE> OK.
<marcoagpinto> In December the professor shouted in the phone: "Your thesis looks like a sh*tty report"
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> for 8 months or so that I have been making changes
<marcoagpinto> although I don't know what is wrong with it being a report
<EoflaOE> OK.
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> hey lordievader
<lordievader> ð
<marcoagpinto> hey hey
<marcoagpinto> lordievader! lotuspsychje!
<lotuspsychje> hi marcoagpinto
<lordievader> Hey marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> I have just finished writing a paragraph in my thesis!!!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<marcoagpinto> https://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/11/terrorism
<marcoagpinto> I summarised this site into one paragraph
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> the core
<lordievader> Good to hear you are making progress
<marcoagpinto> yes
<marcoagpinto> :)
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!!! Hello!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
<lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
<lordievader> How are you doing?
<BluesKaj> hey lordievader, doing fine here, and you?
<lordievader> Doing good here :)
<EoflaOE> Hello everyone
<tomreyn> doh, nvidia releases documentation? the gods must be crazy.
<JimBuntu> tomreyn, that was a good movie ^^
<tomreyn> where the nvidia documentation fell from heaven?
<JimBuntu> tomreyn, https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080801/
<tomreyn> yes, i was referring to this one ;)
<JimBuntu> it was a coke bottle, right?
<tomreyn> it was, in the movie
<hggdh> now this is interesting: just found kernel is reporting ibus-daemon barfing every so often on my Eoan (like 2 thousand times since yesterday)
<antimatroid> there's still a few things I don't like about 18.08, but starting to really like it otherwise
<antimatroid> it's snappy, and the graphics are nice
<antimatroid> gnome-session-flashback is snappy anyway
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-09
<daftykins> what's 18.08?
<daftykins> ;)
<antimatroid> 18.04 d:
<daftykins> i'd be curious to learn if flashback is even getting maintained, seems to me it's always a bad idea to hang onto the past
<antimatroid> daftykins: it seems to work well still to me, so much be, there's mate as a second resort if this stops working
<antimatroid> I like it so much I'm going to cling to the past for as long as possible
<antimatroid> it's my favourite 'os/desktop environment' by far
<daftykins> ;)
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<immu> hiu
<immu> new update to LTS is out , any one installed it yet
<marcoagpinto> Heya!!!!
<immu> hi marcoagpinto
<immu> sorry didnt see you
<marcoagpinto> hello
<marcoagpinto> I just got in
<marcoagpinto> :)
<immu> ok
<immu> get in like?
<marcoagpinto> as usual, I can't sleep
<marcoagpinto> I am drinking cola
<immu> you shouldnt be drinking that as cola will cause you harm
<marcoagpinto> I know
<immu> and you will end you diabetic
<immu> have water with lemon and mint squeezed
<marcoagpinto> i am drinking cola zero, it has no sugar
<marcoagpinto> :)
<immu> still same crap
<marcoagpinto> and last night I spent an hour or two adding words to the GB speller
<marcoagpinto> :)
<immu> which version are you on?
<marcoagpinto> version?
<marcoagpinto> of OS?
<immu> Ubuntu
<marcoagpinto> I am on Windows 10
<marcoagpinto> I have VMs with Ubuntu on the other laptop
<marcoagpinto> 18.04 and 19.04
<immu> ok , i dual boot
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> anyway, my use of Ubuntu is more to compile my software: http://proofingtoolgui.org/
<marcoagpinto> see the screenshots at the bottom
<marcoagpinto> I compiled for Windows and Linux
<immu> okie
<immu> proofing tool
<immu> Windows is like my home and ubuntu my bedroom
<marcoagpinto> :)
<immu> wait i will reboot
<immu> :)
<marcoagpinto> oki
<immu> bhi
<immu> hi
<marcoagpinto> hey
<immu> back
<marcoagpinto> wb
<immu> i have tried many distro's none work as Ubuntu does
<marcoagpinto> Kubuntu is very good, but very hard to use
<immu> how come>? whats the difficult part
<marcoagpinto> well, for example, years ago it was very hard to run the "guest addictions" CD from VirtualBox
<immu> ok
<marcoagpinto> and downloading Proofing Tool GUI and decompressing it to a folder was a nightmare
<marcoagpinto> I haven't used it for years
<immu> ok
<immu> you play PUBG
<marcoagpinto> PUBG?
<immu> PUBG mobile or PUBG Lite
<marcoagpinto> what is that?
<immu> a game
<marcoagpinto> I don't play games
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> I am a geek
<marcoagpinto> I only code
<immu> how old are you
<marcoagpinto> 45
<immu> i am 39 so close by
<immu> i play casualy
<marcoagpinto> well, I want to code games when I finish my course
<marcoagpinto> I will return to games
<marcoagpinto> :p
<marcoagpinto> right now I lack the time
<marcoagpinto> I need a 3D course to use Unity
<immu> ok
<immu> wait i will reboot into Window10x
<immu> okie?
<immu> marcoagpinto, ?
<marcoagpinto> what?
<immu> i am booting into Windows
<immu> brb
<immu> hi
<immu> marcoagpinto,
<immu> marcoagpinto, hi
<marcoagpinto> :)
<immu> on Windows i had to install, hexhcat
<antimatroid> I recently got my site manager put on on the snapcraft store, would be stoked if people gave it a go, all feedback welcome
<antimatroid> https://snapcraft.io/install/nsm/ubuntu
<antimatroid> official site is at https://nift.cc
<antimatroid> you can import/fork template site repositories to work from from bitbucket/github/gitlab and push changes back using nsm bcp "commit message", see https://nift.cc/resources/templates.html for templates
<OerHeks> interesting antimatroid
<antimatroid> OerHeks: cheers, a lot of site managers/generators seem to be geared towards just static sites, nsm should work fine for dynamic sites as well
<OerHeks> currently not involved in site-maintenance, but bookmarked
<antimatroid> it's good for simple sites too, I made my personal site n-ham.com with it
<antimatroid> stars on github/gitlab help with rankings on things like staticgen.com
<antimatroid> https://github.com/nifty-site-manager/nsm (switch github for gitlab for gitlab)
<antimatroid> I'm developing some ai contests too and made the sites for those with nsm, see https://ai-bots.net and https://tron.ai-bots.net for demo sites
<antimatroid> did anyone see the Google sponsored ai comps back around 2009-11? They will be similar to those
<immu> hi
<immu> i am back
<immu> marcoagpinto,
<marcoagpinto> what?
<marcoagpinto> :)
<immu> i don't know any one else except you for an hour :)
<antimatroid> howdy
<immu> antimatroid, how do u do 2
<antimatroid> not too bad, what about you?
<antimatroid> had a job interview this morning and got my site manager put on the snapcraft store (see above)
<antimatroid> oh you joined
<antimatroid> checkout nift.cc and https://snapcraft.io/install/nsm/ubuntu
<antimatroid> https://nift.cc
<immu> cool
<immu> whats up guys
<lotuspsychje> !info linux-image-generic bionic
<ubot5> linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.15.0.55.57 (bionic), package size 2 kB, installed size 15 kB
<BluesKaj> Hi folks
<marcoagpinto> BluesKaj!
<marcoagpinto> Hello!
<BluesKaj> hi marcoagpinto
<marcoagpinto> :)
 * JimBuntu slides marcoagpinto a frosty mug of special crafted ginger beer
<marcoagpinto> hey hey
<marcoagpinto> [12:26] <marcoagpinto> Buaaaaaaaaaa.... I trashed my addressbook using CardBook... I was copying contacts between groups and some became no longer associated with the groups and the photos vanished
<marcoagpinto> I am readding the photos that vanished
<marcoagpinto> guys?! I am terribly stressed!!!! It is almost work day!!!!
<JimBuntu> marcoagpinto, isn't it like the middle of your work day already?
<hggdh> Q: why would one want to *hide* SSH brute force attacks? A: because one is attacking.
<hggdh> c.f. silus
<hggdh> tomreyn: ^
<RikMills> FYI is anyone sees a question: https://kubuntu.org/news/fixes-for-recent-kde-desktop-vulnerability/
<RikMills> *if anyone
<lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: ^
<pragmaticenigma> thanks RikMills
<marcoagpinto> JimBuntu: I work in a supermarket on the weekends
<EoflaOE> hi marcoagpinto
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE marcoagpinto
<EoflaOE> hi lotuspsychje
<marcoagpinto> hey
<marcoagpinto> I have a part-time job
<marcoagpinto> 16 hours/week
<marcoagpinto> 8 + 8
<marcoagpinto> but it is terrible on the weekends
<EoflaOE> marcoagpinto: nice
<marcoagpinto> it is useless to work in a normal job... dad was a director in the bank and now that he is retired, he is poor
<marcoagpinto> :)
<marcoagpinto> so, life leads nowhere
<tomreyn> hggdh: thanks, hadn't seen this
<tomreyn> but in fact this was just confirmed by PM
<pragmaticenigma> !info qxmledit
<ubot5> Package qxmledit does not exist in bionic
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje: you have returned!
<marcoagpinto> >:)
<lotuspsychje> OerHeks: you got the weekend clowns again?
<OerHeks> oh, it is friday, hummmm
<lotuspsychje> jeez man
<lotuspsychje> isnt there a fancy new game released or something?
<OerHeks> i worked in the garden today, we bought for â¬175 fresh plants
<lotuspsychje> oh?
<OerHeks> the buxus were eaten by a moth family
<lotuspsychje> gardening is an expensive hobby indeed
<OerHeks> all residents pay â¬0,95/month for the green stuff, so there is money enough, 100 residents
<OerHeks> They want to increase to â¬2 or so, but we have no clue what to do with all that money
<TJ-> Why is gardening expensive?
<OerHeks> â¬250 from last year..
<OerHeks> we bought a lot of plants, with discount, we bought the not that nice ones..
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: plants cost money
<OerHeks> which will be beautifull in a month, or next year
<TJ-> oh, you buy them do you?
<OerHeks> for myself, i do not buy plants, just good soil, plant i get or find on the street, and stone pots too.. mostly at the end of the season
<lotuspsychje> netherlands is known for that heh, alot of pots/plants outside front door
<OerHeks> there are 5 big containers, places to avoid parking cars near the entrance
<lotuspsychje> wow
<OerHeks> made of plastic from carparts
<TJ-> yeah, we use cuttings or home-grown seed. People always willing to share seeds/cuttings
<OerHeks> oh i do that too, in september i buy seeds with discount ..
<OerHeks> like buying sweaters in summer, and shorts in the winter
<lotuspsychje> wait, august is discount in netherlands?
<OerHeks> we have no static discounts like in belgium
<lotuspsychje> here its july and january
<OerHeks> i know, and your shops cannot buy special offers just for those 2 periods, one must have it in stock before that
<OerHeks> here it is free game, but somewhat limited, like you cannot do this year round
<lotuspsychje> right
<lotuspsychje> our discounts are actually rip-off, unsold stuff rate higher= make it look like its cheap
<lotuspsychje> =better business
<OerHeks> yesterday i read about an apple farmer in spain, â¬0,08/kg ... he cannot pay for the petrol to get the crop of the land
<OerHeks> and in the supermarket we still pay â¬3,50/kg
<lotuspsychje> : o
<OerHeks> :-D
<OerHeks> this madness will soon end .. or not
<lotuspsychje> and a biological apple is special, we used to pull it off a tree..
<lotuspsychje> 3x more expensive
<OerHeks> i used to pick apples and cherries too, digging potatoes from the start of the field, 5x10 meter where the machine skips the first part
<OerHeks> cutting tulips,  100 x 50, and get 5 bundles free
<OerHeks> if one is smart, one can go shopping without money
<lotuspsychje> forgotten of that nl tulips :p
<lotuspsychje> saw tons of them in amdsterdam
<OerHeks> going to the fish market, for fish heads, njummie, fish-cheek-soup
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> liquid sushi
<OerHeks> that used to be the poor fishermans soup, now a high cuisine recepy, tin of campbells + fishheads, filet
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> fine (plastic) kitchen
<TJ-> when I was a kid we used to grow Tulips here on the farm, mostly for the bulbs, but we'd also sell the flowers from a caravan on the road-side
<tomreyn> and then you invented husky driven computing?
<tomreyn> and huskell, the programming language
<TJ-> hehehe there's a good idea!
<TJ-> I've got a server that failed after losing power earlier, systemd drops to emergency console due to dailed 'dev-...' jobs. Seems the root of the problem is a VG didn't activate correctly, or rather the udev rules to create the /dev/disk/by-uuid/ symlinks failed to run. As aresult startup got stuck because an fsck job son't run because it is specified by the /dev/disk/by-uuid/ node. I did a "udevadm
<TJ-> trigger" which added the /dev/mapper/ symlinks but still not got the /dev/disk/by* .... any ideas ?
<TJ-> the by-uuid rules for raw devices (sda-sde) are there, but not those that should be created by 60-persistent-storage-dm.rules
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-10
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<Kon-> I just noticed a 40% drop in performance between Bionic's 4.18 and 5.0 kernels in Mesa's RADV. Mentioned that in #ubuntu-kernel and apparently there's related discussion here
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-hwe/+bug/1838644
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1838644 in linux-hwe (Ubuntu) "Booting into desktop results in flickering" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: probably a different bug then yours but..
<Kon-> Yeah, my desktop was stable. I went the whole week on 5.0 and only noticed a problem with the massive drop in Mesa 3D performance in Vulkan
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: what kind of kernels do you have in your list right now?
<Kon-> Only the standard Bionic and HWE kernels
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: booting into 4.18 doesnt give you this issue?
<Kon-> My issue was fixed by reverting to 4.18, correct. The problem was present on 5.0 when using all available versions of Mesa, so it's not a Mesa problem
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: could you try a !mainline kernel 5.3 for example as a test?
<Kon-> I guess I could try ukuu
<Kon-> Does upgrading to mainline fix your issue?
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: these kernels fix my issues for me: 4.15 4.18 5.2 and 5.3
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: so it would be nice, if we could prove there's something going on, on 5.0.0.23 specificly
<Kon-> What's your CPU and GPU, btw?
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: intel 620 UHD graphics on an intel i5 clevo
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: but for now, my bug only proves its clevo screen panel related..
<Kon-> Interesting. All AMD here. Ryzen 7 1700X + Radeon RX 570
<lotuspsychje> we have other users with radeon issues too on 5.0.0.23
<Kon-> Have any links?
<lotuspsychje> not sure bugs were filed for this yet
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: maybe try the mainline 5.3 first, if that works id advise a new bug
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: there is also a ryzen bug, think tomreyn knows about more
<lotuspsychje> but not sure its related to yours
<Kon-> Okay, AFK a few but I'll test 5.3 soon
<lotuspsychje> ok, same breakfast here
<lotuspsychje> keep us updated ok
<Kon-> Sure thing
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<Kon-> lotuspsychje: My issue remains with 5.2.8 from the Ubuntu mainline PPA
<Kon-> So in my case, not specific to 5.0.0-23
<luna> https://streaming.media.ccc.de/froscon2019/S1#schedule https://www.froscon.de/en/news/today-is-the-day-2/ Linux conference in Germany
<EoflaOE> hello everyone
<luna> hi EoflaOE
<EoflaOE> hi luna, how are you doing?
<luna> alright
<EoflaOE> I am doing fine.
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: ok tnx for testing mate
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: maybe you should consider creating a new bug anyway, ubuntu-bug linux
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje hi
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE
<EoflaOE> How are you doing?
<EoflaOE> This kernel issue is weird. On my old PC, the screen doesn't flicker and do anything strange. It only caused 2 mins boot time.
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: you mean kernel 5.0.0.23?
<BluesKaj> Howdy all
<OerHeks> :-)
<lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: you manage to create your bug mate?
<EoflaOE> hi lotuspsychje. I mean the kernel 5.2.0
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: ah you are testing 19.10 right
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Yes.
<BluesKaj> EoflaOE, did you get the new 5.2.0-10-generic kernel version?
<EoflaOE> BluesKaj: Got this version for my VM in my new PC and it did neither flicker nor cause problems. However my old PC stayed on 5.2.0-8
<lotuspsychje> we have a few reports of  kernel 5 and amd graphics already, waiting for Kon- bug report now :p
<BluesKaj> oh using a vm , not my style
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: And my old PC has an Athlon XP 1500+, and AMD Radeon 9200 Series. They did not cause problems, only boot slowdown on the kernel that I was running there.
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: been of bionic for long time on an amd 3200+ and ati card, was working like a charm on 2g ram :p
<lotuspsychje> tweaked to the max of course + ssd
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Nice. Athlon XP, 64, or II?
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: https://www.cnet.com/products/abit-kv8-max3-motherboard-atx-socket-754-k8t800/ was my mobo
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: And this is my mobo (Close to KT4AV): https://www.cnet.com/products/msi-kt4av-l-motherboard-atx-socket-a-kt400a/
<lotuspsychje> nice, im an msi fan too
<EoflaOE> Thanks. Haven't updated its bios yet.
<TJ-> heads-up on a weird issue I struggled with for about 8 hours with a failed server boot, dropping to emergency.target. System has pretty standard non-encrypted LVM but (unusually) uses one LV for /usr/lib/ which requires manual intervention in initialramfs (cmdline += 'break=init', 'lvm vgchange -ay; mount /dev/dm-X /usr/lib') then Ctrl+D to continue. Systemd drops to emergency shell due to fstab UUID=
<TJ-> devices not being found because udev for some reason did NOT create the symlinks in /dev/disk/by-uuid/ for the LVs.
<TJ-> There were 2 problems. the dev-disk-by--uuid-$UUID.device unit missing (causing time-out) which prevents the systemd-fsck@$UUID.service which prevents the usr-local.mount which prevents local-fs.target !
<TJ-> the first problem is/was that cmline += "fsck.mode=skip" is seeminigly ignored by systemd-fsck and doesn't prevent the fsck jobs being created. I got around that eventually by editing /etc/fstab for the problem mounts and changing the passno (last numeric value) to 0 and then 'systemctl daemon-reload'
<TJ-> tried manually adding the missing symlinks under /dev/disk/by-uuid/ but that didn't solve the issue.
<TJ-> /lib/udev/rules.d/60-persistent-storage-dm.rules is supposed to create the symlinks but 'udevadm trigger' nor 'systemctl restart systemd-udevd' caused creation or fixed the missing .device jobs
<TJ-> eventually I de-activiated/re-activated the problem LV and the job was created and the mount succeeded with "lvchange -an VG/LV && lvchange -ay VG/LV"
<tomreyn> if any of you know how to support ciby in #ubuntu, please drive, i'll remain clueless on nvidia until nouveau gets reworked with the new documentation.
<lotuspsychje> tomreyn: think i already pointed him to latest drivers last time for that rtx
<tomreyn> oh. well looks like ciby forgot then.
<tomreyn> it may require more than just switching drivers, though? such as editing xorg.conf or changing configurations on the nvidia settings gui
<OerHeks> maybe disabling nouveau is a solution https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-nouveau-nvidia-driver-on-ubuntu-18-04-bionic-beaver-linux
<lotuspsychje> i see bashing-om still messing with xorg alot, but i dont think thats the way to go anymore
<EoflaOE> hi lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE
<EoflaOE> how are you doing?
<lotuspsychje> all good here
<lotuspsychje> uh-oh .23 bugs are flowing in.. bug #1839729
<ubot5> bug 1839729 in acpi (Ubuntu) "Suspend regression on Kernel 5.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839729
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Seems bad. Let me see how sleeping works on my old PC.
<EoflaOE> lotuspsychje: Made my computer sleep, and my hard drive and monitor is turned off. Let me wake it up.
<EoflaOE> Works perfectly. I think the 5.0 is unstable. Am I right?
<lotuspsychje> well, all kinds of bugs showing up, like on any kernel
<tomreyn> 18.04.3 with 5.0 kernel works fone on this intel system i'm currently using. i dont think there are *generic* issues. but there could be with a given cpu generation.
<tomreyn> i've recently seen more reports about issues with Xeon E3-1200 v5/E3-1500 v5/6th Gen
<lotuspsychje> amd cards also with kernel 5 issues
<tomreyn> yes there were some. of those i chatted with, one was with a very very new hardware, this wasn't a regression. and i think there was someone with an older one, and someone with a 'contemporary', both of which had problems, and i think at least one of them had those after the kernel abi bump
<lotuspsychje> aha
<lotuspsychje> can someone continue with ciby, think he might have some apt issues before the nvidia driver
<lotuspsychje> nite nite
<jeremy31> not even 10PM there
<tomreyn> he gets up early
<jeremy31> I am usually awake at 4AM without an alarm clock
<OerHeks> nvidia and tomreyn is not a match :-D
<TJ-> Only because he secretly causes its firmware to be changed to coreboot :D
<tomreyn> OerHeks: if you can help this poor soul, feel free! i'm not sure what i'm suggesting is the right thing to do, just following up on what lotuspsyche said really
<jeremy31> could always ping cryptodan, he was good with Nvidia
<tomreyn> chances are i successfully sent him into nirvana now and he wont get back anyways, since recovery has has no gui
<tomreyn> ...or it just works
<OerHeks> :-)
<OerHeks> chihuahuas can fly
<tomreyn> anything can, with sufficient external acceleration.
<tomreyn> go cannon fodder, go!
<jeremy31> I am glad cows don't fly, birds are enough of a problem
<OerHeks> cows don't fly?
<OerHeks> .. and from what planet you are?
<Bashing-om> Birdie birdie in the sky - why did you do that in my eye. I am not mad and I won't cry .. but sure glad cows do not fly :P
<EoflaOE> hello Bashing-om
<Bashing-om> EoflaOE: :P Pleased to read you here also :)
<jeremy31> OerHeks: Must be the part of the planet with higher gravitational forces
<EoflaOE> How are you doing?
<OerHeks> oke, i am @ planet Pluto
<Bashing-om> EoflaOE: I have spent 3 hours this AM on UWN - more than my share has been done .. if Gdoc does not get completed .. I will run with what is.
<tomreyn> oh the dog planet
<EoflaOE> Ok. After 2-1 minutes it will be Sunday on my timezone.
<tomreyn> doh 3 hours... impressive, but also something i'd not want to do myself.
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, blacklop with his ATI  X1300??
<OerHeks> that would not run youtube properly AFAIK
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: Yup ! real real old hardware :(
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: I ran that driver on this box for a while .. performance was dismal - newer Nvidia :)
<OerHeks> he upgraded his CPU ...
<OerHeks> odd thing to do
<Bashing-om> OerHeks: This may be a can-of-worms to de-cypher :(
<TJ-> knowing the user and the issues they bring up the cause is 'user' tampering with things they do not understand the implications of!
<jeremy31> B|ack0p seems to be a never ending issue
<Bashing-om> jeremy31: The hope is that he will learn  and become of some value :P
<OerHeks> Bashing-om, remember crazy tux?
<OerHeks> :-D
<TJ-> I have an observation that is rarely wrong; any user with a 'l33t hax0r' nickname has no idea what they're doing
<OerHeks> noob, or the word bloated..
<j3r3my31> like me?
<TJ-> jeremy31: no, a nickname that hints at being some kind of coding ninja/hacker
<jeremy31> Most of my stuff on github are ugly hacks
<TJ-> ahh but you *can* hack, you're not just posing
<jeremy31> Some of it is just to add dkms support that actually works
<OerHeks> guys, name 3 more .. boat anchor, coaster, doorstopper
<jeremy31> support vampire
<jeremy31> pixie is going to town on B|ack0p
#ubuntu-discuss 2019-08-11
<lotuspsychje> good morning to all
<pragmaticenigma> nighty night
<lotuspsychje> hey pragmaticenigma
<pragmaticenigma> yo
<pragmaticenigma> think we finally got B|akops straightend out
<pragmaticenigma> at least for now
<lotuspsychje> oh yeah? what served him finally?
<daftykins> until next time? :)
<pragmaticenigma> What it appears to be, is the hope that Ubuntu (linux) will magicially breath new life into a 13 year old computer and have all the bells and whistles
<pragmaticenigma> tonight it was glitchy graphics, because they were attempting to install the proprietary drivers and manually trying to install other drivers for an ATI Mobility Radeon X1400
<pragmaticenigma> A chipset that is so old, it is best served by the default opensource drivers
 * daftykins chuckles
<pragmaticenigma> They even claimed as much when they said everything was running smoothly on the USB live instances
<daftykins> polishing a turd is a true favourite of open source converts
<lotuspsychje> i explained him, i ran xenial/bionic for years on my amd3200 + ati x800 with 2gb
<lotuspsychje> tweaked of course but..
<pragmaticenigma> lotuspsychje: but I imagine you are not installing the proprietary drivers for that... or if you are, you sought out the ones for that particualr chipset
<pragmaticenigma> I think they come away with a better understanding of what's going on at the very least... now we just have to get them to move away from Unity
<lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: my x800 finally died, so i had to buy other goodies :p
<pragmaticenigma> The statement I gave them about if they don't like the changes made, then move over to Lubuntu or Xubuntu ... since neither has changed much at all since 12.04
<pragmaticenigma> at least interface wise... under the hood they've had lots of changes, but they strive to keep a familiar interface through and through
<lotuspsychje> yeah he didnt want lightweight, cause ubuntu-desktop is 'purple' bling bling
<pragmaticenigma> right... not that you can't achieve the same feel on Lubuntu
<BluesKaj> Howdy folks
<EoflaOE> Hi BluesKaj
<BluesKaj> hi EoflaOE
<TJ-> Sunday morning progress - fixed the mouse sending spurious scroll-wheel events... took it apart again, opened the rotating switch itself, IPA-ed it and generally poked about, and re-assembled. Must have been something conductive caught in the spring-loaded prongs
<EoflaOE> TJ-: Nice. Are there any problems left?
<TJ-> I think I've made it smoother than it ever was but that may just be me being hyper-sensitive to it after suffering for a month or so!
<TJ-> It's a definite relief though to not have to use the touchpad to scroll!
<EoflaOE> OK. Would you be able to help me about making GRUB use 1440x900 resolution? Since I use 19.10 I will have to ask in #ubuntu+1.
<Mathisen> EoflaOE, edit /etc/default/grub GRUB_GFXMODE=whatever
<EoflaOE> Mathisen: I already did that in the past and updated GRUB, but it still is 1024x768
<Mathisen> try adding GRUB_GFXPAYLOAD="keep"
<EoflaOE> I already have it added as well.
<Mathisen> then im out of ideas
<Mathisen> but that should work
<EoflaOE> Yes, should have worked, but didn't.
<lotuspsychje> hey EoflaOE
<Mathisen> EoflaOE, may be related https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1753837
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1752767 in grub2-signed (Ubuntu Bionic) "duplicate for #1753837 grub2 regression, simultaneous console and video graphical glitches with new patch" [Undecided,Fix released]
<lotuspsychje> and hi Mathisen TJ-
<EoflaOE> Mathisen: I can't see --append on the 00_header. Where can it be found?
<TJ-> EoflaOE: because the fix mentioned in those bugs removed it
<EoflaOE> OK.
<EoflaOE> I put the quotes around the resolution, still nothing. Did I found a bug? My GPU is AND Radeon 9200 Series.
<EoflaOE> AMD*
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: did you test physical vs VM ?
<EoflaOE> Physical on my old PC.
<lotuspsychje> EoflaOE: no grub res problem there?
<EoflaOE> I told it to set it to 1440x900 and updated grub, however it reverts back to 1024x768.
<OerHeks> radeon 9200 .. too old
<EoflaOE> Yes. Too old.
<OerHeks> i remember it is an onboard GPU
<EoflaOE> Radeon 9200 is the dedicated GPU that you can insert and remove.
<TJ-> EoflaOE: use 'videoinfo' from GRUB shell to find out what modes it detects (from firmware) https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html#videoinfo
<EoflaOE> TJ-: OK. I saw resolutions like 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, etc. Although the preferred mode is 1440x900, it's not listed there. The 0x123 is selected. I can't go up to see the rest.
<TJ-> EoflaOE: use "set pager=1" then rerun the command
<OerHeks> it is not a bug, just a too old gpu, RV280 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver#Supported.2C_but_hardware_is_too_old_for_Unity
<EoflaOE> TJ-: Thanks. The Cirrus CLGD 5446 PCI Video driver, Bochs PCI video driver, and the VGA Video Driver say "No Info Available",   then, on VESA BIOS Extension Video Driver, I first saw my VRAM which is 12MB which is wrong, then the paletted planar and paletted resolutions of 800x600 and 1024x760. But there is no 1440x900 resolution available on the I
<EoflaOE> nfo.
<TJ-> EoflaOE: which is why GRUB cannot set the mode correctly then
<EoflaOE> OK Thanks anyways.
<TJ-> EoflaOE: is that system UEFI or BIOS boot ?
<EoflaOE> BIOS. My old PC can't do UEFI because it's from 2004.
<TJ-> EoflaOE: If UEFI there ought to be a GOP driver which would correctly report modes
<TJ-> Ahhh... ouch, that is old!
<ZaZaGX> update it!
<TJ-> Back then even VGA BIOS functions often didn't report a correct list of modes, only hard-coded standard SVGA modes, and 1440x900 isn't one of them
<ZaZaGX> ohhh ok
<EoflaOE> OK. Thanks for the clarification.
<ZaZaGX> I think Ubuntu doesn't like my laptop
<OerHeks> not only ubuntu, whole linux does not like your gpu :-(
<ZaZaGX> :(
<OerHeks> not sure there are AGPx2/x4 cards supported
<ZaZaGX> thats pretty old
<EoflaOE> ZaZaGX: What is your GPU?
<ZaZaGX> Intel UHD graphics 620
<OerHeks> oh, i swiched cards, intel 620 should work fine
<EoflaOE> Too new. Mine on my new PC is UHD 630.
<ZaZaGX> hmmm
<ZaZaGX> Does the new Ubuntu 18.04.3 kernel saves more battery life like in the 19.04?
<OerHeks> ZaZaGX, there are no stats about that, it depends on the services installed i guess
<ZaZaGX> well i remember reading since 18.10, its supposedly support better battery life
<ZaZaGX> well, i kind of miss Ubuntu. it gave me like 1-2 more hours of battery life
<Kon-> lotuspsychje: You asked me if I'd reported my bug, here it is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-signed-hwe/+bug/1839750
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1839750 in linux-signed-hwe (Ubuntu) "40% performance loss in Mesa with Linux 5.0" [Undecided,New]
<lotuspsychje> tnx Kon-
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: can you also attach your dmesg booting 5.0.0.23 please
<Kon-> Actually have no idea what that is
<lotuspsychje> !dmesg | Kon-
<ubot5> Kon-: dmesg is a console command which outputs the kernel ring buffer - an important log for diagnosing problems in  Linux. Often when something errors with hardware it will result in additional lines reported which can be seen by running dmesg in a console.
<Kon-> Interesting, thanks
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: you can save it in a .txt if you like, then add to the bug as attachment (booted from 5.0.0.23)
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: it might also be interesting to describe, how you measured the 40% loss exactly? do you benchmark?
<Kon-> Sure thing, let me go do that real quick
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: tnx for taking your time to do this
<Kon-> Well, I certainly want this fixed lol
<lotuspsychje> dmesg has been attached to bug #1839750
<ubot5> bug 1839750 in linux-signed-hwe (Ubuntu) "40% performance loss in Mesa with Linux 5.0" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839750
<daftykins> going so new probably needs a PPA'd newer shiny mesa
<lotuspsychje> not sure whats going on, he's fine on kernel 4.18
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: tnx for updating your bug + dmesg, pretty useful!
<Kon-> No problem
<lotuspsychje> Kon-: can you show us: sudo lshw -C video plz?
<Kon-> Sure
<Kon-> added that to the description
<lotuspsychje> tnx
<lotuspsychje> TJ-: i know youre all over the place, but its raining install bugs in #ubuntu-bugs-announce
<jeremy31> failed to install grub-efi-amd64 to /target?
<lotuspsychje> grub-installer & ubiquity filed against
<lotuspsychje> bug #1839761
<ubot5> bug 1839761 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "grub" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839761
<lotuspsychje> bug #1839762
<ubot5> bug 1839762 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "grub error" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839762
<lotuspsychje> bug #1839770
<ubot5> bug 1839770 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "NVMe. Crash during installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839770
<lotuspsychje> bug #1839771
<ubot5> bug 1839771 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install of 19.04 failed on Lenovo Thinkpad W520" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839771
<jeremy31> It seems grub has problems installing to EFI with an internet connection after any update to grub packages
<TJ-> is that for 19.10 or others ?
<jeremy31> TJ-: pretty much everything since 18.04
<jeremy31> There was a big outbreak on July 10, 2018
<TJ-> this may be related to gst568293's questions earlier, note in bug #1839761 UbiquitySyslog.txt " grub-installer: info: Identified partition label for /dev/sda6: msdos"
<ubot5> bug 1839761 in grub-installer (Ubuntu) "grub" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1839761
<TJ-> What's changed in that time-frame for ubiquity to have it selecting a partition rather than whole device ?
<lotuspsychje> grub-installer: info: Calling 'apt-install grub-efi-amd64-signed' failed
<lotuspsychje> those all over the place
<jeremy31> 1839761 That one is trying to EFI install with msdos partitioning
<TJ-> jeremy31: which is perfectly valid
<OerHeks> UEFI needs GPT, no?
<TJ-> No
<TJ-> UEFI spec requires support for both GPT and MSDOS labels
<TJ-> finally found where in ubiquity source the install device is set:
<TJ-> db_subst grub-installer/progress/step_install_loader BOOTDEV "$bootdev"
<TJ-> d-i/source/grub-installer/grub-installer:1002:db_subst grub-installer/progress/step_install_loader BOOTDEV "$bootdev"
<TJ-> so whatever is setting that debconf var
<jeremy31> TJ-: is $bootdev in preseed file
<jeremy31> https://gist.github.com/boxrick/3a4022d003daa63b7d27cca7f0f99894#file-gistfile1-txt-L48
<TJ-> jeremy31: from what I can tell it can be but it is set from the (default) choice made in the GUI... it looks like grub-install does the correct thing now even when given a partition number. I can't be bothered to track down when that changed though!
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: I've been going through several of those bugs and so far each one is 'user error' or 'network failure' or some form - in one case trying to install to an NTFS file-system!
<TJ-> lotuspsychje: so maybe this a a by-product of the installer allowing/selecting a partition as the install target.
<TJ-> this was a funny one  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1838070
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1838070 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Unable to add dyndbg to command line" [Undecided,Invalid]
<OerHeks> lotuspsychje, "I had to turn up the brightness and it stopped"  ...?  https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/cojwj8/i_was_running_ubuntu_18042_on_lenovo_thinkpad/
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-03
<Maik_aD> good morning
<Maik_aD> any hardware guru's around? i want to upgrade to RAM my older Lenovo Thinkpad T410 to 8GB (2x 4GB), which is recommended, Kingston or Crucial?
<lotuspsychje> crucial gives lifetime warranty
<lotuspsychje> Maik_aD: i still got a 4GB hynix PC3 spare if you like
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<Maik_aD> lotuspsychje: Kingston also gives lifetime warranty it seems :)
<Maik_aD> i'll think about it a bit more and decide later today
<lotuspsychje> Maik_aD: if it fits, you can have it for free if you want
<Maik_aD> is it just one of 4GB?
<lotuspsychje> yeah
<lotuspsychje> all the rest are 2GB and 1GB for laptops i have
<Maik_aD> i need two of 4GB and was looking at this:  https://www.replacedirect.be/nl/product/p0140256/kingston-valueram-4gb-ddr3-ram-geheugen-1600mhz-sodimm.html?subid=101030&prrel=2246423
<lotuspsychje> HMT351S6BFR8C
<lotuspsychje> 4GB 2Rx8 PC3 - 10600S
<lotuspsychje> Maik_aD: slots look the same from your pic
<Maik_aD> i have 4 GB in it at the moment 2x 2GB
<Maik_aD> the plan is to max it out to 8GB
<lotuspsychje> your choice if you want it ill send it by postal
<Maik_aD> lotuspsychje: thanks. I'll think about it.
<lotuspsychje> sure thing
<Maik_aD> :)
<lordievader> Good morning
<marcoagpinto> morning
<marcoagpinto> guys?! I have no cola :(
<Bashing-om> UWN642 is on the streets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue642 :D
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-04
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Maik_aD> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> Heya
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-05
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Maik_aD> good morning
<Maik_aD> RAM upgrade on the Lenovo T410 failed. However it seems i can use the two RAM modules in the Medion E6232 MD99070 which now has a total of 8GB.
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> the cola demon!
 * lotuspsychje runs
<marcoagpinto> I have no cola :(
<marcoagpinto> only in two hours I will go to the store
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-06
<lotuspsychje> good morning
<Maik_aD> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<Maik_aD> hi ducasse
<Maik_aD> i'm off to bed, chat later
<lordievader> Good morning
<coconut> 20.04.1 still on the map for today?
<guiverc> coconut, yeah
<coconut> ok, thnx
<daftykins> you'll receive the version updating text file when the time is right ;)
<daftykins> but i suppose LTS to LTS upgrade becoming available is a more serious consideration!
<coconut> daftykins, text file?
<daftykins> yeah i like to tease the version chasers as i call them, who itch for new versions but of course when your packages are already current, the .1 is just the text file change
<leftyfb> daftykins: I think the biggest request is people wanting to upgrade from previous versions which wasn't available until .1
<leftyfb> not through do-release-upgrade anyway
<daftykins> yeah that's what i self-corrected with saying LTS to LTS
<daftykins> i was a bit too quick to tease ;)
<coconut> yes! LTS got released :)
<coconut> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/08/ubuntu-20-04-1-lts-release
<Maik_aD> coconut: it was a LTS already but you mean first point release
<coconut> Maik_aD, yes, sorry... i am sleeping here. I did meant 20.04.1
<Maik_aD> hehehe... no problem :)
<coconut> :)
<coconut> i hope the xubuntu and ub-mate flavours follow soon!
<Maik_aD> they are released too
<Maik_aD> coconut: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/20.04.1/release/    http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mate/releases/20.04.1/release/
<coconut> oh... heaven, heaven :)
<Maik_aD> ubuntu and it's flavors are always released at once, it only takes the others more time to update their site with an announcement
<coconut> i see
<lotuspsychje> if you guys like there's #ubuntu-quality where all releases are to follow-up and help test early iso's
<coconut> lotuspsychje, i don't install much(i don't like it), but thanks for sharing. :)
<tomreyn> so when you scroll down on https://ubuntu.com/download/server/thank-you you learn that you can get a free "Ubuntu Server CLI pro tips 2020" cheat sheet if you subscribe to Ubuntu Server weekly news.
<tomreyn> There's also a preview image of said cheat sheet. The URL of this preview image is:
<tomreyn> https://res.cloudinary.com/canonical/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto,fl_sanitize,w_440,h_331/https://assets.ubuntu.com/v1/39a8dac8-Ubuntu_Server_CLI_pro_tips_2020-04.jpg
 * tomreyn scratches non-existing beard
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-07
<ducasse> good morning
<lordievader> Good morning
<lotuspsychje> welcome kmplsv
<lotuspsychje> so wich xubuntu version are you trying kmplsv
<kmplsv> latest.
<lotuspsychje> cool
<kmplsv> my friend who is helping me is a genius, he's just super stubborn. i told him that i wanted to start with something like ubuntu because it has a large community and i'd almost always be able to find an answer.
<techied> curious what made you feel stock is bloated?
<lotuspsychje> i guess if you came from gentoo compile everything from scratch, any other distro is bloat :p
<lotuspsychje> all depends on the idea of what bloat is too
<kmplsv> he said nope, nixos or nothing. so great, i have to try to relearn linux (difficult enough as it is), AND all the quirks for nixOS being a declarative OS and all. don't get me wrong, i know there are situations where nixOS is great, it just isn't a good first stepping stone in my opinion. it's more like diving head-first off of the cliff.
<kmplsv> ohhh, i guess the big giant sidebar, the theme, i realize it's stuff i can change, and i can change the WM, but mehhh.
<kmplsv> mainly it was the partition issues i was running into
<techied> oh
<techied> yea i ran i3 for a few months instead of gnome (the default on stock) but idk, something didn't feel right about a tiling wm
<techied> was cool though, never have to lock laptop because nobody knows how to use it xD
<kmplsv> hrmmm...., running "sudo apt update" for the first time and just ran into "update-initramfs deferring update"
<daftykins> well first off that command would only query the package repos and not actually make any changes ;)
<kmplsv> er, upgrade i mean
<techied> did you do an update first?
<kmplsv> yes
<kmplsv> now i'm installing the files necessary for installing the guest additions.
<kmplsv> also, i went w/ ZFS
<techied> can you do a https://paste.ubuntu.com/
<kmplsv> for what file?
<techied> output of your apt upgrade
<kmplsv> one sec rebooting
<techied> k
<kmplsv> gonna run to the restroom real quick too brb
<techied> tmi lol
<kmplsv> so far so good...
<kmplsv> man i love this interface a lot more, way clean
<kmplsv> lemme do a df -h
<kmplsv> here - https://imgur.com/7bIJdsj.png
<kmplsv> that look alright?
<techied> yes
<techied> im not too familiar with zfs but looks similar to my freenas
<kmplsv> yeppppp, it'll be sweet when btrfs matures too.
<kmplsv> building a gaming pc and a file server spring/summer next year.
<kmplsv> hmmm, now the fun parts come. figuring out the ins and outs of trying to use a DAW in linux in a VM, lol.
<kmplsv> guess i'm learning about JACK and pulse audio and stuff.
<techied> fun xD
<techied> that stuff is my nightmare, that and bluetooth
<kmplsv> heh
<kmplsv> i just need to learn about it in linux (i use reaper as a daw, still very new to it), so i can watch tutorials and follow along here at work.
<kmplsv> this working great so far, thanks for the help.
<kmplsv> ok now i seriously do have to go to the bathroom. geeeeeze.
<marcoagpinto> Heya
<oerheks> zoom .. we had a zoom user recently, 2 accounts, sound issues, and lagging the system :-D
<daftykins> that must've put the brakes on ;D
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-08
<Maik_aD> good morning
<ducasse> good morning
<lotuspsychje> wb Maik_aD
<Maik_aD> hey lotuspsychje
<lotuspsychje> can you warm yourself
<Maik_aD> lol... want to come work with me tonight? 55 Â°C or more at the ovens, 45 to 47 in the bakery itself
<lotuspsychje> ermmmm ill pass
<Maik_aD> thought so.... :P
<lotuspsychje> is that even legal?
<Maik_aD> we have to
<lotuspsychje> aka slavery
<Maik_aD> sometimes... yeah
<lotuspsychje> we used to strike in the factory when it was 30C+ and we didnt get our water bottles
<lotuspsychje> drinking breaks every 30min
<Maik_aD> i drink as much as i can and take smoke breaks more to cool down
<daftykins> sheesh! that's my idea of a personal hell
<lotuspsychje> cooks have the same problem on their stoves
<lotuspsychje> while everyone is enjoying the food & drinks they sweat like a pig
<oerheks> and in the winter, you never hear complaints
<lotuspsychje> lol
<lotuspsychje> nice n cosy bake 30.000 xmass pies :p
<daftykins> xD
<lotuspsychje> and roomsoesjes for hungry customers
<daftykins> "what are we gonna do with all these extra pies?!"
<daftykins> "dunno, but i'm warm"
<lotuspsychje> why do you think bakers are always healthy round :o
<daftykins> 'cause inside the folds of the chef outfit, there are pies and desserts all hanging in lines ;)
<lotuspsychje> lol
<Maik_aD> lotuspsychje: wut? healthy round? i don't have time to eat, it's THAT busy at the moment until the end of August. That's two months in a row working my butt off.
<lotuspsychje> i was joking a bit :p
<Maik_aD> i was 95Kg when i started there, now i'm about 82 to 84
<lotuspsychje> slavery :p
<lotuspsychje> a good chef needs to taste his food alot4
<Maik_aD> true
<Maik_aD> one thing is great though about a bakery, there's always plenty of food around
<lotuspsychje> bit sadistic if you dont have time to eat
<lotuspsychje> Maik_aD: you dont need to wear a mask i hope?
<Maik_aD> we had to two weeks ago
<lotuspsychje> jesus
<Maik_aD> yep, and we still have to put one on when someone comes to deliver milk or when a student comes working part time
<lotuspsychje> oO
<Maik_aD> because they don't belong in our "bubble"
<Maik_aD> need to get ready ;)
<lotuspsychje> allrighty, gl..
<Maik_aD> chat later guys and ladies :)
<lotuspsychje> later
#ubuntu-discuss 2020-08-09
<lotuspsychje> morning
<Maik_aD> good morning
<marcoagpinto> The demon!
<ducasse> good morning
<marcoagpinto> morning
<marcoagpinto> lotuspsychje!
<marcoagpinto> Hello!
<marcoagpinto> 20.04.1 is out!
<marcoagpinto> I downloaded it yesterday, but too lazy to create a VM
<DarkTrick> Question regarding the update structure for Ubuntu: With the official repos software updates are controlled by Ubuntu instead of the developer. So bug fixes don't depend solely on the developer - but in most cases - on the Ubuntu release AND a maintainer, that puts a recent version of the software inside the repos. That means: bug fixes only every 6 months or 2 years (if LTS) - and only if the maintainer updated the packages within
<DarkTrick> the repo. Is there more information on why this structure was chosen VS e.g. a "devs can decide themselves when to release updates"?
<daftykins> i think you're ignoring universe and PPAs with that analysis
<tomreyn> DarkTrick: "bug fixes only every 6 months or 2 years (if LTS)" is incorrect as a general statement. it can apply to many (but not all) packages which only have community support. it can also apply to packages with non-critical bugs in 'main' and 'restricted'. but generally, at least in those sections, you will see bug fixes getting backported. a developer making those patches available seperately, or even actively supporting older
<tomreyn> releases, certainly helps with this.
<DarkTrick> daftykins, well my view is based on a basic setup. I'm unaware of any repo-trickery
<daftykins> ok i think you've got some research to do :)
<tomreyn> DarkTrick: the general idea behind this strategy is to provide version and feature stability for users for a while (the while that a release, or LTS lasts). which is what some if not many desire to not have to constantly upgrade software on their systems (which can and usually has side effects which are difficult to manage).
<tomreyn> yes, you need to do some reading
<DarkTrick> tomreyn, has it been different in the past?
<DarkTrick> I'm not talking about LTS, but about the way updates are supplied
<DarkTrick> I have a system like iOS app updates in mind, where OS updates and app updates are highly decoupled
<lotuspsychje> DarkTrick: whats the purpose exactly of your investigation?
<DarkTrick> lotuspsychje, Currently I see 1) speed of bug fixing is slow 2) maintenance overhead could be reduced
<lotuspsychje> DarkTrick: there are several things that influence the speed of bug solving
<DarkTrick> I mean: fixes and newer versions are already released, but it does not enter the repo
<DarkTrick> There were a couple of cases for LibreOffice some years ago (I stopped tracking by now)
<DarkTrick> or FreeCAD or KolourPaint
<DarkTrick> As a user, that can write bug reports, I also end up spending time for things (e.g. writing reports), that are already solve, just not yet in the repos.
<lotuspsychje> devs are doing the best they can i'm sure
<lotuspsychje> DarkTrick: maybe if you are more interested in how package get released, try #ubuntu-release too
<lotuspsychje> or contribute yourself, work with devs & maintainers?
<DarkTrick> lotuspsychje, At first I would like to find the rationale behind the decision of the current situation. Perhaps #..release is a good place to start
<lotuspsychje> DarkTrick: also these days we have a lot of snaps on ubuntu, where the maintainer pushes their updates fast, decoupled as you say from the Os
<lotuspsychje> also something to think about
<DarkTrick> as a user, do I see the different between snaps and "usual packages"?
<lotuspsychje> DarkTrick: apt vs snapd, apt-cache search foo vs snap find foo
<DarkTrick> ah
<DarkTrick> lotuspsychje, do you happen to have an link on why that was introduced?
<lotuspsychje> snaps?
<DarkTrick> yes
<lotuspsychje> !snap
<lotuspsychje> <ubottu> Snaps are containerised software packages similar to flatpaks or appimage. For more info, see https://snapcraft.io
<daftykins> it was introduced as an attempt to solve the fact that relying on system-wide shared libraries can be problematic when one program wants a newer version, but another program breaks on the newer version
<daftykins> afaiui
<tomreyn> there are some important softwares, such as what used to be web browsers (and now are the universal client software for everything), which are really difficult to maintain version stability for, where snaps and their rolling upgrade model (which snap provides - though apt could, too) can make a lot of sense.
<lotuspsychje> i was thinking of that some times about we can still use our !latest factoid, as nowadays, a lot of 'later' snaps intrude in the LTS base system
<DarkTrick> tomreyn, thank you for the explanation. snapcraft.io did not present it easily findable
<DarkTrick> sry, that was @daftykins
<daftykins> you're asking quite some basics that research online would find
<DarkTrick> hm... snaps should be rather independent then... `snap install kolourpaint`, run it, infinite loop of invisible errors  ... if that's the alternative to the current system, I love the current one :D
<DarkTrick> daftykins, I'm asking because I don't find it online...
<DarkTrick> maybe I should stop using duckduckgo...? but google from Japan also sucks @ search results :/
<tomreyn> try google.com/ncr
<tomreyn> or startpage.com
<daftykins> DarkTrick: yeah i don't think you're really trying though ;)
<lotuspsychje> did you survive it Maik_aD
<Maik_aD> lotuspsychje: sure :)
