#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-27
<j1mc> FYI, all: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2010-September/015240.html
<j1mc> just thought I'd share that.  
<j1mc> I would give you his first name if I knew it!  He may be hanging out around here, anyway.
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-28
<charlie-tca> Release Candidate Testing begins today for Maverick! Great job on the is release.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, cody-somerville : Can we turn quadrapassel off in maverick. There is no point having it in the menu when it won't run.
<charlie-tca> bug 561734
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 561734 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "quadrapassel doesn't start: Failed to initialise clutter: Unable to select the newly created GLX context" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/561734
<mr_pouit> it should work with 3d acceleration afaik (i.e. not in virtualbox)
<mr_pouit> I'll check that when i'm back home
<charlie-tca> It won't work at all here, on three hardware systems
<charlie-tca> I would prefer it not be a choice, than to be a choice for part of the users
<charlie-tca> nvidia does not have 3d acceleration without installing hardware drivers, too
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, fixed
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, the Germany mirror links
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<ochosi> charlie-tca: quadrapassel works just fine here
<ochosi> but then again: i have 3daccel on
<ochosi> maybe it doesn't without
<charlie-tca> exactly
<charlie-tca> It works for "some" users
<davmor2> charlie-tca: it requires clutter which in turn requires 3d drivers :(
<charlie-tca> But not all users have 3d drivers
<charlie-tca> Older nvidia cards have no hardware drivers, newer nvidia MUST have hardware drivers installed to enable 3d
<charlie-tca> VirtualBox will fail also
<davmor2> charlie-tca: I agree but I think we'll be in the minority L(
<charlie-tca> I do not want a program in the menus that only some users can use. They can install it themselves. 
<ochosi> davmor2: why do you think you would be a minority?
<ochosi> i guess i agree with you, charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hmm, I suppose release notes, too
<ochosi> (not that it matters much :) )
<davmor2> ochosi: because it's part of the default games package for ubuntu
<charlie-tca> yes, it does matters much. I hate being the only voice of disagreement here
<charlie-tca> davmor2: but the .desktop file can have "do not show = true"
<ochosi> alrighty, i just meant since i'm not part of the team, that's all
<charlie-tca> It does have it's own .desktop file
<ochosi> davmor2: i have no clue what you mean, quadrapassel is a package of its own
<davmor2> charlie-tca: but that neither solves the issue or frees up space and general public won't know how to access it
<charlie-tca> hmm, true enough
<ochosi> you can just remove the package quadrapassel from the default install (if you get a freeze exception)
<charlie-tca> So, let's see how many people complain and file duplicate reports for something that should have been fixed... :-(
<ochosi> depends on how many people play those games
<charlie-tca> just that one, the rest work
<ochosi> as i said before, it's fairly straight-forward to remove quadrapassel
<ochosi> (without removing the others)
<charlie-tca> That's what I think, too
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: everything except quadrapassel works in the live environment
<charlie-tca> w00t! My internet connection hit 1.64kB/s... just 78 hours left to sync the alt-386 image
 * charlie-tca thinks testing will take a while at this rate :-)
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-29
<tgall_foo> greets, does anyone know what file controls the layout of the menu up at the top ? IE Applications / firefox icon ... etc ?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: testing is going great for Maverick RC. No major bugs found.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: anything we need specifically in the release notes?
<charlie-tca> ochosi: found an icon set I can see for ClawsMail - something called "hash303030" works really well for me
<ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks, i designed it a few years ago :)
<charlie-tca> thanks for putting it out
<charlie-tca> heh, it has icons that show up for my eyes!
<ochosi> maybe i should update/work on that again sometime
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> hmm, I also switched to "high contrast svg" icons on my installed Xubuntu 10.10. They show up too. who knew, huh?
<ochosi> hehe
<edvard> Just found a bug in Xubuntu 10.10, where's the best place to report
<charlie-tca> launchpad, what is the bug
<edvard> TERM environment variable isn't set
<edvard> causes probs with nano, clear and man
<charlie-tca> oh, it is reported already, but I don't have the number handy
<edvard> couldn't find where to post on launchpad
<edvard> oh, ok
<edvard> i searched launchpad and couldn't find it, do you know the name of the bug so I can search better?
<edvard> found 1 post about the error being in vte, no answer... searching again
<charlie-tca> looking
<edvard> found post of it affecting guake, but folks seem to agree it's upstream
<charlie-tca> Which terminal are you using? bug 621927 can have it added
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 621927 in vte (Ubuntu) "Embedded Terminal Emulator isn't giving a TERM variable" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621927
<edvard> xfce4-terminal
<edvard> yeah that's the bug thread i found
<edvard> but it looks like the actual bug is in vte
<charlie-tca> You mean like bug 651353
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 651353 in vte (Ubuntu) "TERM environment variable not set" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/651353
<edvard> yeah that's the first thread i found with no replies.
<edvard> I think I'll post in there cause vte seems to be where everything is pointing
<edvard> in the meantime, any idea how to fix this?
<charlie-tca> good idea. Thanks
<charlie-tca> set the TERM variable? you can do it in .bashrc
<charlie-tca> just a simple TERM=xterm
<edvard> oh, duh
<edvard> ok
<charlie-tca> export TERM
<charlie-tca> two lines
<edvard> right
<edvard> wait, should it be export TERM=xterm?
<edvard> or TERM=linux?
<charlie-tca> nope
<edvard> i've seen both
<charlie-tca> should be two lines
<charlie-tca> TERM=xterm
<charlie-tca> export TERM
<edvard> ok
<edvard> Thanks a ton, I'll test this and post after breakfast
<charlie-tca> You are welcome
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-30
<charlie-tca> Team Reports need to be updated for September, please. Let's tell the world what we are doing.
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: blogging time, please. Any chance of a blog entry for the Maverick RC release?
 * charlie-tca knows his blog entries are more sporadic than cody-somerville's are
<charlie-tca> Maverick Meerkat RC released!
<cody-somerville> w00t! :)
<davmor2> yay!
<knome> i wonder why the new theme in xubuntu was not noticed in in RC announce. please make sure it makes it in the official release announcement, please
#xubuntu-devel 2010-10-01
* You're now known as ubuntulog
<TheSheep> http://identi.ca/conversation/52856133#notice-53456421
<TheSheep> :(
<charlie-tca> Well, we can't please everybody
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-26
<charlie-tca> I really got to go today. I will see all you good people tomorrow. GridCube, good luck.
<ochosi> micahg: ping
<Exio> n
<Exio> ups.. sorry
<micahg> ochosi: pong
<ochosi> hey micah
<ochosi> i wanted to ask you about thunderbird's new monochrome toolbar-icons
<ochosi> at the moment those are broken
<ochosi> greybird uses a bright grey toolbar and the icons in thunderbird are white
<ochosi> it's bug 856939
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 856939 in murrine-themes (Ubuntu) "Default Thunderbird icons in Oneiric unusable with Greybird" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856939
<ochosi> do you have any clue whom i could ask about that?
<ochosi> (i already checked a few themes, it seems that the color of the icons depends on the background-color of the menus)
<ochosi> or do you know what i could do about that?
<micahg> define "broken", I saw the bug, but I don't see the problem
<ochosi> right, well the problem is that the monochrome color is chosen wrongly
<ochosi> it doesn't depend on the toolbar-background
<ochosi> so white on light-grey is barely readable
<ochosi> but it can happen the other way round as well
<ochosi> bright menus and dark toolbar > dark monochrome icons = barely readable
<micahg> ah, I guess I don't have the text on
<ochosi> k :)
<micahg> chrisccoulson would be the person, but he's on vacation ATM
<ochosi> oh :(
<ochosi> anyone else?
<micahg> me...
<ochosi> yay! :)
<micahg> I have a meeting in 5 minutes though
<ochosi> until when?
<ochosi> or: when would you have time?
<micahg> an hour or 2
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i don't know if i'll still be around then
<ochosi> but if you can take a look at the problem and ping me that would be great
<charlie-tca> Good morning
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Beta2 released | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-10-03 at 19:00 UTC | Oneiric Ocelot images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<charlie-tca> This is an interesting bug... Bug 784115
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 784115 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmusicbrowser is absent from Preferred Applications in Unity" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/784115
<charlie-tca> I have to wonder if Unity will add it ?
 * micahg wonders where "Preferred applications" is in unity
<charlie-tca> Aren't they still using a white-list for such things?
<micahg> charlie-tca: no idea, can you find out and I can try to make the necessary changes?
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> micahg: I will find out what to do to get it added
<micahg> charlie-tca: thanks
<charlie-tca> Oh, by the way, we do have new images today!
<micahg> ooh, alternate dropped 2MB in size
 * micahg wonders what we lost
<charlie-tca> gnome-control-center?
<charlie-tca> pleia2: can we publish http://2tu.us/3jei on the website news, please?
<pleia2> charlie-tca: newsletter or fridge.ubuntu?
<charlie-tca> both, if we can, I think. I don't really know.
<pleia2> I can add it to fridge
<pleia2> just requested access
<charlie-tca> It is limited to Xubuntu Users team on launchpad, but I need as much exposure announcing it as possible
<charlie-tca> 600 users, should be able to get two nominations, I hope.
<pleia2> is the text in this document the same as the -news-team post?
<charlie-tca> yes
<pleia2> ok, I'll just post and link to that then
<charlie-tca> Okay, thank you
<charlie-tca> I am not so good at this kind of stuff, I just wanted to get it out there
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I assume when you say "either mailing list" you mean -users or -devel?
<madnick> morning :)
<micahg> madnick: what TZ are you in?
<charlie-tca> pleia2: yes, since I pushed the announcement to both mailing lists.
<charlie-tca> We have people that do testing of the development releases that never get to -devel
<madnick> micahg: well GMT+1
<madnick> So its 8 in the evening :) but i sleept in :P
<pleia2> charlie-tca: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2011/09/26/nominations-for-xubuntu-project-lead-2011/
<micahg> madnick: heh
<charlie-tca> firefox gets slower and slower, I think
<charlie-tca> pleia2: thank you very much
<micahg> charlie-tca: it should be getting faster
<charlie-tca> I know
<charlie-tca> but loading almost all pages seems to take a long time now
<charlie-tca> at least in Oneiric
<pleia2> fridge is slow today
<knome> any ubuntu web stuff slow(ish) everyday :(
<charlie-tca> It was getting faster, but now it is slower again. I even got that busy error today when updating the wiki
<Olbi> hello :D
<charlie-tca> Hello, Olbi 
<madnick> micahg: ive tried blueman some more, but i cant tell you which one works best
<madnick> I can tell you that, indeed they work :P
<madnick> im not sure about when the computer gets prompted to accept a key
<madnick> Basically those prompts dont go away
<madnick> i ran dist-upgrade and got ask.com as search engine
<madnick> is that the new thing?
<charlie-tca> That's a bug
<charlie-tca> Is it the only search engine?
<ochosi> micahg: hey, did you get anywhere with thunderbird?
<madnick> charlie-tca: yes it is
<charlie-tca> micahg: Do you know about this bug in firefox removing all search engines except 'ask.com' ? latest update
<Unit193> I have all the ones I normally do (Ask is in there, not sure if it's new thougfh)
<micahg> charlie-tca: should be fixed with the ubuntu4 update
<charlie-tca> Okay
<micahg> only affected those that upgraded to ubuntu1 or ubuntu2
<charlie-tca> um, madnick just got hit by it
<micahg> ochosi: sorry, haven't had time to look yet
<charlie-tca> madnick: run updates again
<micahg> madnick: what version is firefox?
<micahg> madnick: re blueman> idk, you said the new version didn't crash, I guess that's one up on the old one
<madnick> micahg: thats true :) but the popup thing is kinda annoying
<madnick> Perhaps it should be like that, i guess
<micahg> madnick: did the old version have that?
<madnick> Not that I recall, i just wiped the hdd of the testing computer to install todays image, i can try again
<charlie-tca> So it is today's image?
<madnick> No i did the dist upgrade last night
<madnick> When installing from micahg's PPA
<ochosi> micahg: if you get a chance to look at it please let me know, it's really a prominent *and* ugly bug :(
<charlie-tca> Yeah, should be able to run updates and fix it then
<micahg> today's images shouldn't be affected (at least not the alternate)
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I didn't think it was that bad; at the icons are visible, even if you have to squint a bit.
<micahg> yeah, today's images should be fine WRT the search engines
<charlie-tca> micahg: thank you
<madnick> am i the only one testing blueman? that is scary O_o
<ochosi> charlie-tca: hm, yeah, dunno, i'm just trying to get whatever i can fixed (and currently almost everything is fixed) ;)
<charlie-tca> madnick: most of us don't have anything bluetooth
<charlie-tca> ochosi: As long as you got time to fix things like that, every fix makes it a little bit better. :)
<madnick> well, ill do my best, im just waiting for the install
<madnick> Im gonna compare it i wrote some stuff down
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i already squashed 6 gtk3 bugs today, finally getting to the sprint
<charlie-tca> You do know you have the only gtk3 xfce theme out, right?
<charlie-tca> And it works!
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> it'll work better as soon as i've pushed the fixes
<ochosi> but i need to spend another day/night on it i think
<mr_pouit> I think the xubuntu-docs upload got accepted
<mr_pouit> (so, even if they aren't up-to-date, they'll at least show "11.10" on the webpages)
<charlie-tca> yes, I think it did. Thank you for updating it
<madnick> "the installer encountered an unrecoverable error"
<madnick> On todays live images
<micahg> ochosi: BTW, final freeze is Thursday at 21:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> Hm, which image?
<charlie-tca> or both?
<madnick> Permission denied /proc/4299/environ
<ochosi> micahg: yeah i know, that's why i'm a bit pushy now (sry bout that btw)
<madnick> this one:
<madnick> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20110926/oneiric-desktop-i386.iso
<charlie-tca> Okay, will see what I can find
<madnick> im gonna try to run the installer from the desktop it dropped me to
<madnick> Failed, ubiquity crashed 
<madnick> oh gridcubes testing interface has crashed
<charlie-tca> madnick: I think you are correct. The image won't work today
<madnick> nope :(
<madnick> Does the alternate images work?
<charlie-tca> They should, yes
<Unit193> But... It just synced... So did alt though
<charlie-tca> I see the same traceback in both images, I suspect desktop images are bad today
<charlie-tca> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/oneiric/xubuntu/20110926/livecd-20110926-amd64.out
<charlie-tca> ubiquity fails to start
<charlie-tca> hm, I can't install Ubuntu or Xubuntu desktop images today
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-27
<ochosi> hey everyone
<ochosi> i just pushed a lot of bugfixes to greybird's gtk3 theme
<ochosi> if any of you have time to check it out and test it a bit that would be great
<ochosi> as always, you can find it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
<ochosi> this is what it looks like now (more or less): http://imagebin.org/174296
<ablomen> ochosi, look's good here, only a color difference between status icons and the actual panel, but this might be fixed after restarting the session or because i'm not running the current beta of xubuntu, anyway, the scrollbars look nice!
<ochosi> ablomen: thanks!
<ochosi> i think you can probably fix that by restarting the panel (alt+f2 > "xfce4-panel --restart")
<ablomen> yep that fixed it
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> the panel got a bit darker
<ochosi> ablomen: do you have any gtk3 applications installed?
<ablomen> I don't think so (libgtk-3-0 is not installed)
<ochosi> k, nvm
<ablomen> Do you have an example of a gtk3 app, im happy to install one :)
<ochosi> hmm, i'm not sure you can really run gtk3 apps in 11.04 very easily, i think you'd have to add a ppa for that, so most likely not worth the hassle
<ablomen> well i have just installed the gtk3 libs, compiling something simple would be no problem
<ochosi> don't think there are any available in the repositories of 11.04, not sure what's easiest to compile dependency-wise
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Installing on hardware using the desktop image today
<charlie-tca> 64bit, looks better than yesterday
<charlie-tca> micahg: congratulations. You will do a lot of good there.
<charlie-tca> micahg: congratulations. You will do a lot of good there.
<micahg> charlie-tca: referring to DMB?
<ochosi> charlie-tca: you maybe missed my earlier call for testing
<ochosi> i pushed a lot of bugfixes to greybird-gtk3
<ochosi> would be nice if some of you could give it a spin
<charlie-tca> micahg: yes
<charlie-tca> ochosi: yes, I did
<charlie-tca> shimmer git?
<ochosi> yup
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will grab it and look
<ochosi> i also took a widget-factory comparison-screenshot: http://imagebin.org/174296
<charlie-tca> We should push it through though, since we only have two days to get it in Oneiric
<ochosi> i fixed a few more things after that, but it illustrates how far i got
<ochosi> yeah, i know, already talked to lionel about it
<ochosi> i thought you can test it tonight, i'll publish a new version tomorrow and lionel will push it
<ochosi> and if there are last-minute things i can still fix that tomorrow
<ochosi> sry, g2g now
<ochosi> have a nice evening everyone!
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<ochosi> np, see you
<micahg> charlie-tca: thanks
<charlie-tca> Desktop images install today
<micahg> firefox 7/3.6.23 release day today
<charlie-tca> Updated the bugs listing for Oneiric. It looks really good
<charlie-tca> yay! firefox update
<charlie-tca> well, so much for pushing spotify now...
<charlie-tca> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/09/27/1421257/Spotify-Defends-Facebook-Sign-Up-Requirement?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
<charlie-tca> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/09/27/1421257/Spotify-Defends-Facebook-Sign-Up-Requirement
<charlie-tca> micahg: bug 836208 should be fixed now. Users will have to set dconf-settings specifically to use nautilus in Xubuntu
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836208 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "On login to xubuntu session, starts nautilus which ruins desktop" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836208
<micahg> charlie-tca: great, thanks
<pleia2> hm, is someone else editing the drupal site right now?
<pleia2> getting errors when trying to fix this devel page issue
<charlie-tca> I'm not. I don't think I even have a password
<pleia2> seems ok now
<mr_pouit> grmbl, I don't know where to put the casper hook
<mr_pouit> (in xubuntu-default-settings? or does it need a new binary package only installed on the live-cd?)
<charlie-tca> livecd only, as I recall, to fix the stupid headers bug?
<charlie-tca> well, missing headers bug, right?
<mr_pouit> I wonder if it hurts to have it even for normal systems
<mr_pouit> because for live-cd only means we need a new package, which means another FFe, and going through new
<charlie-tca> I don't know. Want me to test it?
<charlie-tca> I have a 64bit hardware install here
<mr_pouit> ok, then please download http://lionel.lefolgoc.net/misc/48maybe_ubiquity , put it in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/. , chown root:root and chmod +x the file, run update-initramfs -u, reboot, and see if it broke badly ;-)
<charlie-tca> Will do. This is a fresh install, so it shouldn't have extra stuff to break
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you do know /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/ does not exist in installed Xubuntu?
<mr_pouit> yes
<charlie-tca> generating image
<charlie-tca> well, initrd.img
<charlie-tca> error: Can't open /scripts/casper-functions
<charlie-tca> when running update-initramfs -u
<mr_pouit> yeah, that's what I htought
<charlie-tca> does it matter?
<charlie-tca> will that throw the error to the users every time that is run?
<charlie-tca> and do we care if it throws that error into the logs?
<mr_pouit> yeah, and probably fails
<charlie-tca> It just gave the one line
<charlie-tca> reboots fast, lets me login again
<charlie-tca> nothing broken
<mr_pouit> I'm not sure adding this error is a nice thing to do ;>
<mr_pouit> then I'll add a new package, in xubuntu-artwork I guess
<charlie-tca> Okay, sorry about that.
<charlie-tca> We could throw the error and let the users whine about it, and add the new package for P 
<mr_pouit> I'll ask cjwatson tomorrow to be sure
<charlie-tca> Okay. Let me know if you go the new package now, and I will get it pushed through
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-28
<GridCube> good night
<madnick> :D
<GridCube> madnick, yes, sorry about the interface, i forgot to add a schudule for today so it broke when searching for it, i've changed the code so now if the schudele file is absent it will say so
<GridCube> :)
 * GridCube reads the ubuntulogs XD
<madnick> oh okay :)
<GridCube> anyway i've checked and now there is a schudele for all the week
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> charlie is the only one updating it tho 
<madnick> i was going to :P
<GridCube> :D
<micahg> madnick: so, what's the call on blueman
<ochosi> hey everyone
<madnick> micahg: both versions seems to work almost the same, replicating the same scenarios makes them both do the same thing, however the new one seems to have more features
<madnick> also the new one have not crashed for me
<madnick> hi ochosi 
<micahg> madnick: ok, can you comment in Bug #836324  please?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836324 in blueman (Ubuntu) "FFe: Sync blueman 1.22~bzr707-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836324
<ochosi> did any of you test greybird-gtk3 and run into any problems/bugs with it?
<micahg> ochosi: I won't be able to look at thunderbird before the weekend unfortunately, it's unlikely we'll be able to get a fix in before release
<ochosi> micahg: ok, that's a pity, i think it's the only known bug in greybird atm
<micahg> the good news is thunderbird gets updated regularly, so we just have to get a fix upstream and we'll inherit it 4 weeks after release
<ochosi> right
<micahg> err, not quite right...16 weeks :(
<ochosi> yeah, i'm not sure there is much i can do to fix this in the theme...
<micahg> new stuff has to land on trunk
<ochosi> hm, 16 weeks is almost 12.04 :)
<micahg> once it lands though, we can probably distro patch
<ochosi> personally i don't use tb, but i know people will complain about it
<micahg> ochosi: if we're distro patching, I'd have to SRU it in any event and it could even be right after release
<madnick> micahg: Im unsure what to write in that bug
<madnick> should i just tell them "i did some testing on multiple devices comparing the versions, and i find the new one better"
<micahg> madnick: yep and that the new version crashes less
<micahg> or doesn't crash
<micahg> whatever appropriate
<madnick> okay
<ochosi> micahg: k, will you comment on the bug (856939) or shall i?
<madnick> i was about to write "i found a couple of wierd things in both versions", but i guess thats not relevant to this bug report? its just which one is better
<micahg> madnick: write what you discovered, the release team can weigh what's better I guess
<madnick> I hope my entry is enough, im really bad at expressing myself 
<micahg> mr_pouit: we got our conffile for the greeter now :)
<micahg> madnick: seems fine, thanks for the testing
<madnick> I don't like that it makes it impossible to know if you accepted a key, because it does not go away
<madnick> and also that it changes name on the device if you reject it, to something i guess is the bluetooth modules name itself
<micahg> did that happen in the old version?
<madnick> yes
<madnick> both versions
<micahg> I guess this is better than pulling in half of GNOME though
<madnick> yeah, its not that bad, the phone / tablet / keyboard / amtel chip device / etc knows when its done :P
<madnick> its just that if you dont look, you may get confused
<mr_pouit> micahg: yay \o/
<micahg> mr_pouit: we also got blueman approved, I'll upload a little later, I'm off Thu/Fri, can you keep an eye on it for emergencies, also do you need anything else fixed in -meta?
<mr_pouit> I've already to take care of x-d-s (add the greeter theme for lightdm), murrine-themes (greybird updates), and the only-ubiquity bug, so, one more, one less, it's fine ;-)
<Pjotr> I see mr_pouit has fixed lightdm-gtk-greeter
<Pjotr> nice job!
<Pjotr> How can I help translating it, as the current greeter is still 100 % in English, in Xubuntu 11.10?
<mr_pouit> no, it's not fixed :(
<madnick> iirc, the labels etc are marked as translatable
<madnick> But im not sure how one does anything with that
<mr_pouit> I'm not here this afternoon, so when charlie-tca comes online, please tell him to push Bug #861316
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861316 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Uncleaned conffile in lightdm-gtk-greeter" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861316
<mr_pouit> thanks
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: wasn't it fixed here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/845549
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 845549 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Do not ship /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf" [High,Fix released]
<mr_pouit> Pjotr: see the bug link I pasted above
<Pjotr> I see. This is bad.
<Pjotr> Even Lubuntu has a nicer greeter now.  :-(
<Pjotr> For what it's worth, I just marked bug 861316 as "affects me too" on Launchpad.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861316 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Uncleaned conffile in lightdm-gtk-greeter" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861316
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: now that we got things accepted, do I need to have someone push bug 861309 out for us?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861309 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[{UI,F}Fe] lightdm-gtk-greeter theme" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861309
<charlie-tca> Away grandkids
<Unit193> Have fun! Lubuntu has a nicer "greeter" because they are using LXDM (Something someone said a bit up)
<micahg> I'll upload the new meta with blueman over the weekend (unless mr_pouit beats me to it)
<mr_pouit> micahg: I can upload it right now if needed
<micahg> mr_pouit: it's not seeded yet (no time), I'd do a recommends on blueman if you want to handle it
<mr_pouit> micahg: I can add a recommends, then upload
<micahg> mr_pouit: feel free, thanks!
<mr_pouit> micahg: does it need a FFe? or was it already filed (which bug #?)?
<micahg> mr_pouit: there's a task against xubuntu-meta for it
<mr_pouit> bug #836324
<mr_pouit> indeed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836324 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "FFe: Merge blueman 1.22~bzr707-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836324
<mr_pouit> hop, uploaded, good night!
<micahg> mr_pouit: thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-29
<Pjotr> mr_pouit has fixed the greeter! Excellent.
<Pjotr> But one obnoxious problem still exists: the greeter still is 100 % in English, on a Dutch localized Xubuntu 11.10.
<Pjotr> as you can see here: http://sites.google.com/site/computertip/schermafdruk
<Pjotr> This is weird, because LightDM has been translated fully into Dutch. This has been so for more than a month. As you can see here (Oneiric branch): https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/lightdm/+pots/lightdm/nl/+details
<Pjotr> And here (trunk branch):
<Pjotr> https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm/trunk/+pots/lightdm/nl/+details
<Pjotr> How can we fix this?
<Unit193> Heh, Session is actually in Dutch
<Pjotr> Unit93: lol. OK, 1 % is in Dutch. :P
<ochosi> yeah, but that's more because it's the session name, not because lightdm localizes :)
<Unit193> That was my only comment, I don't translate
<Pjotr> Does anybody have an idea what the cause of this problem could be?
<Unit193> My guess would be person that made the greeter doesn't know Dutch, but that could very well be wrong
<Unit193> Does Ubuntu have it correctly?
<Pjotr> Unit193: Yes.... and the oneiric branch of LightDM is 100 % translated into Dutch: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/lightdm/+pots/lightdm/nl/+details
<Pjotr> and so is the trunk branch of LightDM: https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm/trunk/+pots/lightdm/nl/+details
<Pjotr> Be right back
<madnick> is it a multiuser computer?
<Unit193> Wait until he gets back?
<madnick> Unit193: hehe I was scrolled up a bit reading :)
<Pjotr> Unit193: just checked Ubuntu again. The greeter of Ubuntu is about 80 % translated. The words "Guest Session" and the disabilities options (high contrast and such) aren't translated either. This is weird.
<madnick> Pjotr: is it a multi user computer you are using?
<Pjotr> No, single user test machine
<madnick> Does any other language work correctly?
<madnick> See, everything is translatable, but I cant see them setting a translation domain 
<Pjotr> madnick: I haven't tried other languages.... I'll give French or German a shot. Be right back.
<madnick> thanks
<Pjotr> madnick: French isn't showing up either, in the greeter (except for "Session Xubuntu"). I installed all French language packs and rebooted: after logging in, my desktop is entirely french.
<Pjotr> but not the greeter...
<madnick> okay, i will peek around the source
<Pjotr> Thanks. Off topic: I love the French translations though. My desktop seems much more elegant all of a sudden. :-)
<madnick> :D
<ochosi> hehe
<madnick> well. that was that VM
<ochosi> madnick: why not just report a bug against lightdm?
<madnick> ochosi: because im not 100% sure im right
<madnick> thats why i want to patch it, try it, and then report a bug
<madnick> Problem is, i accidentaly gave the wrong data dir constant when compiling, which made the greeter useless, and i cannot get tty on virtualbox, never could for some reason
<madnick> so im pretty much locked out
<ochosi> right
<madnick> oh, it was a bug
<madnick> in lightdm, that made --test-mode fail
<madnick> I guess I could file a bug report, im 90% sure now
<charlie-tca> Final freeze is today, 21:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> pleia2: Happy birthday
<charlie-tca> madnick: to get to a tty in VirtualBox, use the VBox Key (rt-ctrl?) instead of Alt
<madnick> charlie-tca: yes but its blue and the text is blurry white and huge :(
<charlie-tca> really? Mine are good here.
<madnick> Not usable, this only happens when i install guest additions
<charlie-tca> Oh, yeah, that seems to be having issues
<madnick> btw, im 91.2% sure that the gtk-greeter needs to specify a translation domain
<madnick> there is nothing about it in the source nor the desktop file
<madnick> But I dont want to file a faulty bug report
<madnick> if its not the case
<charlie-tca> Well, probably won't make 11.10. Time grows short now, but we did get it in, anyway!
<madnick> charlie-tca: yes but it wont have any translations
<charlie-tca> That's not the end of the world. They can always replace xubuntu-greeter with Unity-greeter if they need it translated
<madnick> If it is true, there is litterly 1 line of code to add the the C-file and then modifying the .desktop file
<madnick> true
<charlie-tca> We have very few days left to get it fixed, so if we can, great! If not, it will still be a bug.
<madnick> Well, ill file the report, if its wrong then ill just say im sorry
<charlie-tca> That will work
<madnick> charlie-tca: sorry, what was i going to type "bug-oneiric" or similar?
<madnick> in the command line
<charlie-tca> ubuntu-bug xubuntu-greeter ?
<madnick> thanks
<charlie-tca> or what ever we called...
<charlie-tca> Need to try and get the images today and tomorrow, please. This is the last day for big changes, so tomorrow will be very important. 
<madnick> bug 862427
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 862427 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "It seems lightdm-gtk-greeter does not set translation domain" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862427
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<madnick> about todays images, ive got them installing, but i wont have much time to test today, sorry
<charlie-tca> If they install, mark them as pass anyway
<charlie-tca> We need to know they actually do anything besides be there
<madnick> one thing i noticed however, it seems to lack a checkbox
<madnick> There is usually 3 at first dialog
<charlie-tca> It's been two since beta2
<madnick> oh okay
<madnick> havn't noticed :P
<madnick> ok, its a PASS and seems to work fine, but i was looing at /Xubuntu/Testing and cannot find the Google Docs link
<charlie-tca> http://2tu.us/3jj0
<charlie-tca> Update GridCube's interface, too, if you have time, please...
<charlie-tca> http://gridcube.netii.net/test/XTCv2.html
<madnick> thanks :)
<charlie-tca> No problem
<madnick> Google docs, it does not work, i cannot enter anything
<charlie-tca> Are you in the September page?
<madnick> Yes
<madnick> Well, i can scroll down to it
<charlie-tca> I don't see anything blocking it
<charlie-tca> The sheet is editable by anyone that can see it
<madnick> hm something happened and it jumped to a new page
<madnick> now it works
<charlie-tca> I hid the extra pages
<charlie-tca> or maybe I deleted what was blocking you
<madnick> :P well, i filled both in, i will wait for the alt install aswell, but then im off to bed
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much
<pleia2> charlie-tca: thanks :)
<charlie-tca> blueman crashed on login - bug 862860
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 862860 in blueman (Ubuntu) "blueman-applet crashed with DBusException in call_blocking(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name :1.58 was not provided by any .service files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862860
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-30
<charlie-tca> ooops
<charlie-tca> blueman bug is duplicate of bug 437883 with 82 dups now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437883 in blueman (Ubuntu) "blueman-applet crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437883
<Unit193> If you'll notice the ML, you may see this: http://jaysonrowe.blogspot.com/2011/09/xubuntu-1110-beta-2-review.html
<Unit193> jayson_r: Welcome!
<charlie-tca> Unit193: ML == Mailing list?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Yes sir!
<charlie-tca> Okay. I usually send a thank you type thing to -devel ml when I spot a review, just to let everyone know about it. 
<charlie-tca> This one I shared on g+
 * Unit193 isn't stalking you on G+
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> I just try to push things that are about Xubuntu, generally. I am not very good at "social networking" at all
<charlie-tca> got like 52 people in my circle
<Unit193> I've got less, and I post less. I'm also not one for social networking
<charlie-tca> after a year or so, I got three people on twitter!
<Unit193> Anyway, that person posted to the devel list and is here now. I just found that on my quick look over his blog
<charlie-tca> Welcome, jayson_r 
<charlie-tca> Thanks for the review of Xubuntu!
<charlie-tca> well, I think I have to get some sleep tonight
<charlie-tca> Unit193: Do you have time tomorrow to run tests?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Eh... I'm going to be gone tomorrow, but I could try to make it up in the morning :/
<charlie-tca> Most of the changes should have hit today, so if we can test tomorrow, we can give mr_pouit and micahg a chance to see what might be fixable
<Unit193> I'll have to do something mostly basic if I can make it
<charlie-tca> That works. It just needs to be an image dated 09-30 or later
<Unit193> I will try! Have a great night!
<charlie-tca> Just to know they still install is good
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<jayson_r> Unit193: charlie-tca: thanks!
<Unit193> Heh, yep. As I thought. You've been here for a little while now :P
<madnick> Are all those bugs related to the version that I tested?
<charlie-tca> no, madnick 
<charlie-tca> They were reported two years ago, and don't seem to have been fixed
<madnick> Oh okay
<charlie-tca> the crash happened on the alternate 64 install, but the desktop cd installs never crashed. It might be something about how it is being installed
<charlie-tca> The problem is, it crashes every login when it decides to crash
<madnick> charlie-tca: they fixed my bug :)
<madnick> do you think we get it in?
<charlie-tca> Which one is it?
<madnick> bug 862427
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 862427 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not set translation domain" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862427
<charlie-tca> Oh yeah, that is going to make it in, yes
<madnick> nice
<charlie-tca> apparently wasn't just us, but anyone using gtk-greeter
<madnick> yup, i was going to submit a patch, but i dont think they trust me enough, it was litterly about 2 lines of code to change
<charlie-tca> I have to keep an eye on it, and make sure it gets fix-released now.
<charlie-tca> but you also have the manager in Ubuntu Development watching it
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: anything blocking us now for final release (if there are no changes that screw us)?
<madnick> morning 
<madnick> does anyone have admin rights to gridcubes testing interface?
<madnick> and could add todays files
<charlie-tca> hit refresh, it should pick them up
<madnick> nope :(
<madnick> gonna clear my cache and try 1 sec
<charlie-tca> did it here
<charlie-tca> I just hit F5 in firefox
<charlie-tca> oh, but my cache and everything is set for 1 day maximum
<madnick> I get:
<madnick> Warning: include(./sch/September30.htm) 
<madnick> even with cleared cache :\
<charlie-tca> close it and the open it again?
<charlie-tca> http://gridcube.netii.net/test/XTCv2.html
<madnick> oh
<madnick> i was here:
<madnick> http://gridcube.netii.net/test/XubuntuTestingsCenter.html
<charlie-tca> ouch, that is full of errors
<madnick> The alt images are oversized
<madnick> I will see if it works anyways
<madnick> err 64bit*
<charlie-tca> They fit on a cd for me yesterday, but it grew again today
<charlie-tca> probably have to remove one of the language packs again
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I show the alternate amd64 image at 702.3MB today
<madnick> Should I join Xubuntu Testers? So that I can display my testing hardware? 
<charlie-tca> yes
<madnick> okay
<charlie-tca> It's for future reference, when someone asks what hardware was used to test Oneric
<madnick> Yeah, seems like a good idea
<madnick> oh it says i need a wikipage, im not sure how to make those
<charlie-tca> Some people use their irc nicks, I used my real name:
<charlie-tca> wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieKravetz
<madnick> Oh, on Ubuntu's wiki? Do I just edit "Home"? Or is there a special page for users to add themselves?
<charlie-tca> you create a new page, using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YOURNAME
<charlie-tca> You can copy mine and change it to fit if you want
<madnick> awesome thanks :)
<charlie-tca> It helps if you keep adding what you do to it, too.
<charlie-tca> Then when you need all that good information, it is there
<madnick> okay :)
 * charlie-tca thinks he should have looked to see what is out of date now, too
<madnick> I will use the setup of your page, but since i cannot use the wiki source, i wont add the menu, if thats okay
<charlie-tca> If you look at "More Actions", raw, you can copy anything off the page
<madnick> :D
<madnick> Sweet
<charlie-tca> The line starting "||<tablestyle="float:right" is the table of contents
<madnick> Writing a wikipage is hard :) 
<charlie-tca> Only the first time. After that it gets easy :)
<madnick> If I was 13, is that junior high school?
<madnick> :P
 * madnick is not familiar with English educational system
<charlie-tca> Yes
<madnick> thanks :) 
<charlie-tca> I think so
<Unit193> And we have to update BOTH trackers?
<charlie-tca> We appreciate having both updated, since we are testing the new one this week. If you only update one, make it google docs
 * Unit193 Alt Entire
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<Unit193> I just love that I'm not stuck with PINK(!) anymore...
<Unit193> Installed, updates, jockey, opened a few programs and.... I can see plymouth??
<Unit193> Theme changed too... Can a hardware person try a reboot from LightDM? Seemed a litttle weird
<charlie-tca> Have already
<charlie-tca> It works nice
<charlie-tca> Oh, reboot?
<charlie-tca> I will try that in a few minutes for you
<Unit193> If you aren't going to run another test, don't bother, I'm sure it's just me
<Unit193> blueman-applet crashed on second boot
<Unit193> And -manager when I tried to open
<charlie-tca> No, I have one installed already that I can reboot
<charlie-tca> blueman crash is bug 437883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437883 in blueman (Ubuntu) "blueman-applet crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437883
<Unit193> Manager didn't already have one with same name
<charlie-tca> reboot is weird; but works
<charlie-tca> Once the applet starts crashing, it crashes every login
<charlie-tca> but, even if reboot is weird, it's *fast*
<Unit193> Bug 863599
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 863599 in blueman (Ubuntu) "blueman-manager crashed with AttributeError in SetAdapter(): 'module' object has no attribute 'DBusServiceUnknownError'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/863599
<Unit193> It's a dupe of something, just don't know what
<charlie-tca> Hm, I didn't see that crash, but that could be because I have no bluetooth, so once the applet crashes, I don't mess with bluetooth
<Unit193> Well, it doesn't have it either
<Unit193> Feel free to change my comments, I'm in a rush
<Unit193> Only had an option to logout, not reboot or shutdown
<charlie-tca> I'll check and see if I can get reproduce the manager crash
<Unit193> And it never logged out, had to force
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I had that, but I think it is related to the bluetooth crash
<charlie-tca> They pushed so many changes yesterday, I was surprised the images even worked
<charlie-tca> and Unity plans another change by Tuesday 
<Unit193> The bug I filed could be a dupe of the one you pointed at. I should be good for thes
<Unit193> tues
<charlie-tca> Okay, we will try again tues then
<charlie-tca> In the meantime, I will run a few installs and see what I can find
<Unit193> Heh, wish I could check better :/
<charlie-tca> That's okay, I do pretty good when I have something to start with
<charlie-tca> I have to try and reproduce bug 849414 too, so I will be doing a few installs this weekend
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 849414 in plymouth (Ubuntu P-series) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/849414
<charlie-tca> GridCube: 
<GridCube> charlie-tca, 
<charlie-tca> GridCube: can we have a "enter another test" button instead of having to hit back twice?
<charlie-tca> I hit refresh in hopes of getting back to the beginning, but it dups the test
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> yes, i've seen that, I was wondering on a way to avoid that, not allowing users to send twice the same exact test, at least one of the field should be different, and the button to go back to the main page :) the last one is very easy, the first one will take some time
<GridCube> :) besides that, what do you think so far?
<GridCube> should i add a way to delete entries from the admin area?
<charlie-tca> oh, and what about displaying comments?
<charlie-tca> Also, If I ran the test, entered the data, and then found I forgot something, I have to dup the entry to change it?
<charlie-tca> Which is okay, if we add a delete from admin area
<charlie-tca> Then the tester can tell us they changed it, and we just delete the first entry made
<GridCube> yes i can add the comments to the front page, i didnt because i though it would be too much information
<GridCube> and i don't really want to give to anyone the ability to delete entries, any troll would come and delete everything
<charlie-tca> I agree with that. We can do deletes through admin only
<charlie-tca> limit it to one or two people
<GridCube> as you wish i can change the password on the file directly and give it to you if you want and you do what you please whit it :)
<charlie-tca> Is the database working?
<GridCube> define "working"
<charlie-tca> not losing data
<GridCube> oh yes :D 
<GridCube> that is
<charlie-tca> We have added quite a bit this week to it
<GridCube> yes, i deleted the old tests entries
<GridCube> thats why some numbers are wrong, and it starts at 8
<GridCube> all the data is from real tests now
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> we have ways of doing strange things sometimes
<charlie-tca> We are going to move to this for the next release.
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> awesome
<GridCube> i'm making it so it can be edited by an admin to fit any cicle :P
<GridCube> and i was thinking on packaging it to share it whit other people if they want it
<GridCube> :P
<charlie-tca> Great! Are we setting it up to use madnick's server or keep it where it is?
<charlie-tca> Oh, yeah, you don't those install messages because your computer is too fast. My slow ones show all that crap
<GridCube> as you wish, madnick's server is "ours" this one is from a free hosting site, so madnick's seem more secure
<GridCube> charlie-tca, ? wrong channel?
<charlie-tca> no, just an explanation on why you never seen the "remove all ..." messages on installations
<charlie-tca> Easier to say it here than jump back and forth to talk to the same person
<GridCube> charlie-tca, do you want to be able to see the whole database while deleting an entry or you want to have a simple box where to add the ID number while reading the standard "every test" page?
<GridCube> i mean, you read the database in one tab and have the delete box on the admin area
<GridCube> charlie-tca, check the testings center, i've enabled it to show comments, as you can see, its not very pretty
<charlie-tca> I see
<charlie-tca> but what good are comments that are invisible?
<charlie-tca> Whatever method to delete is easier to create, I guess.
<GridCube> they aren invisibles on the "every test" page
<GridCube> but ill see what i can do
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I kind of like to see if anyone hit the same issues I did, and I think others do also.
<GridCube> there, now you can delete entrys from the admin area, do you remember the password?
<charlie-tca> yeah, but not the url
<charlie-tca> memory like an elephant, just can't remember those details
<GridCube> http://gridcube.netii.net/test/sch/AdminArea.html
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> I've tried to make it the most comprensible(?) that i could
<charlie-tca> It's good. I will just ask questions when I can't do what I need it to.
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> Well, You have a great weekend! I am taking off for tonight now.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-01
<Unit193> I have some comments about the interface, but nobody is here ;P
<madnick> blueman crashed today
<madnick> hm, more crashes
<madnick> Im not even authorized to preform shutdown O_o
#xubuntu-devel 2011-10-02
<Unit193> Welcome back
<micahg> customized unity greeter looks nice
<GridCube> :) it does
 * micahg also sees blueman has an issue
<GridCube> :|
<Unit193> Looks to be my doing
<GridCube> blueman crash out of the blue
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-24
<micahg> do we want mousetweaks back?  Bug #1055038 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055038 in mousetweaks (Ubuntu) "quantal debdiff supplied: Demote gnome-control-center to Suggests to not force desktops without g-c-c to import it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055038
<knome> micahg, if we have space for it
<micahg> knome: looks small enough, we can try after beta 2
<knome> yup
<olbi> hello
<olbi> I have found some strange behaviour when using LibreOffice Writet
<olbi> when I have a whole page of text
<olbi> and try to mark all of them, then at 3/4 of page, it becomes unmarked
<olbi> it is at Xubuntu 12.10 with all daily updates
<olbi> some1 could check this
<olbi> on Xubuntu 11.10 and Xubuntu 12.04 all is ok
<noskcaj> olbi: post the questing in #ubuntu-testing as well
<olbi> ok, done :D
<xnox> pleia2: remember when you reported the bug against ubiquity that thunar automounted partitions and ubiquity was driving you crazy with popups to unmount the partitions?!
<xnox> pleia2: were you madly clicking yes, and it would only re-popup the same popup instead of doing anything useful?
<elfy> I hate gparted at the moment for exactly the same reason xnox 
<xnox> elfy: ubiquity does not use gparted. I don't use gparted either. Therefore I don't care about gparted that much =)
<elfy> just saying :p
<xnox> =)
<elfy> I hate having each partition showing in an install twice two 
<elfy> just saying ;)
<smartboyhw> =)
<xnox> elfy: explain?
<elfy> xnox: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1039375
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039375 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Duplicate partitions shown" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/113051637/Screenshot%20-%20210812%20-%2006%3A58%3A33.png
<elfy> screenie shows it without reading stuff :)
<xnox> elfy: not ubiquity. BTW use nautilus.
 * xnox hides
<elfy> I shall squeam 
<elfy> or just use kde :p
 * smartboyhw will not go away from Xfce
<elfy> xnox:  no - I know it's not ubiquity - I'm not too worried about ubiquity - I only tend to use it now and again :p
<elfy> smartboyhw: I shall remember and copy that quote ;)
<smartboyhw> elfy: Why?
 * smartboyhw is now afraid of getting into trouble...
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> xnox: there were no dialogs (nothing to madly click yes to), thunar windows just popped up on their own after I manually set up some partitions
<xnox> pleia2: hmmm... so you didn't click "install now" while keeping thunar as it is?!
<pleia2> xnox: I set up my partitions, then probably yeah, I did "install now" (if that's the "next" type button on that screen :))
<xnox> pleia2: and then it should have offered you to unmount those partitions?
<pleia2> I don't think so
 * xnox is suspecting that unmounting partitions via ubiquity doesn't really work, but probably it is fixed in other ways now.
<pleia2> I can test again tonight if you need (it's 9:15AM and I've just started work :))
<xnox> pleia2: meh... I will be out at volleyball & probably will run that test next time I'm to do a test run, given that it is a milestone week it is quite lickely I will anyway =)
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> knome or anyone - any comments on the docs post I have pending in xubuntu.org wordpress?
<knome> pleia2, as i said, i did a few changes
<knome> pleia2, and added some
<knome> pleia2, did you look at those yet?
<knome> (hey)
<pleia2> yep, looks good
<knome> don't know what else should be changed - maybe nothing
<knome> we will have to eventually release anyway
<knome> and we need to write b2 notes too
<pleia2> I'll just publish, don't want it lost in all b2 release madness :)
<knome> yup, that's what i was trying to gently say
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/offlin-rewritten-documentation-for-12-10/
<pleia2> oops
<knome> oopsee
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/offline-rewritten-documentation-for-12-10/
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> oh, I still have words mixed up
<pleia2> gosh
<knome> yeah
<knome> :D
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/offline-documentation-rewritten-for-12-10/
<pleia2> !
<knome> yup
<pleia2> moar coffee
 * knome goes adding the 12.10 tag
<knome> pleia2, http://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=1413&action=edit
<knome> pleia2, that's the old beta1 post renamed
<pleia2> ok, tweeted and G+ed
<knome> great
<ailo> Is there a volume applet in Xubuntu 12.10 currently?
<Sysi> I think indicator-sound is working again
<elfy> ailo: there is here 
<elfy> might have to install it again though
<elfy> ailo: I reinstalled indicator-sound-gtk2 
<ailo> elfy: Yep, that fixed it
<elfy> good :)
<pleia2> knome: added a section with "notable bug fixes" - there are probably more
<pleia2> we also probably want to mention dropping gimp, gnumeric and aisleriot
<knome> pleia2, yes
<pleia2> since those weren't planned things
<knome> and the language changes
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> -fr-xh-pt from i386, +de amd64
<knome> i think i just found a way how i can listen to ac/dc songs without getting annoyed
<knome> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVAK3Qsld2c :P
<elfy> volume down?
<knome> no i actually listened to a whole track...
<Sysi> ac/dc isn't that bad, at least the old stuff
<Sysi> really old, like high voltage
<knome> or even st graber?
<knome> (okay, i had to make that pun)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-25
<elfy> recently lost update manager telling me there are updates available - also not seeing the "You need to restart to finish installing updates" message - until I happened to reboot - then it appeared
<elfy> not sure if that's a bug or something to do with indicator-'things' changing
<ochosi_> elfy: well you could start other applications that have their own indicators, i think the restart and update-man stuff all goes through the pkg indicator-application
<elfy> the only thing I appear to have in indicators is the volume app - I'm all a bit confused about what used to be where, if it's coming back, when it's coming back - just appears to have appeared with no reason - so thought I'd mention it
<ochosi_> what about nm-applet?
<ochosi_> indicator or systray?
<elfy> oooh - not got nm-applet it appears
<ochosi_> wait, not at all?
<elfy> nope
<ochosi_> that sounds bad
<ochosi_> that's quantal with all updates?
<elfy> yep
<ochosi_> i guess in that case we have to look whether they changed anything in indicator-application
<ochosi_> no, there are no recent changes i can see
<ochosi_> i mean they changed the versioning scheme
<ochosi_> maybe that breaks it...
<elfy> k - maybe it was good I wandered by with a random statement then :)
<ochosi_> i'll test in my vbox at work in a bit and then take a look
<ochosi_> our indicator-application-gtk2 definitely still carries the old versioning scheme
<ochosi_> so i guess i'd need to look at whether they also changed it for libindicator
<ochosi_> strange, i mean those version-bumps happened all back in july
<ochosi_> so they shouldn't have gone unnoticed
<ochosi_> bbiab
<ochosi> elfy: doesn't look like i can confirm the behavior you describe
<ochosi> only missing 3 updates (which i'm installing now), which are unrelated
<elfy> mmm - ok, I'll try a clean install at some point this week with b2 and move stuff about :)
<elfy> odd - but meh :)
<ochosi> oh well, it seems i got more updates coming
<ochosi> (wrong mirror)
<ochosi> there's even one related to dbusmenu
<ochosi> i'll see whether things are still as should-be after install/restart
<elfy> I got a bunch of updates this morning
<ochosi> and that broke it?
<elfy> no - sure that the update notification has been gone longer - I rarely notice the nmapplet - so that could have snuck out with this latest update 
<elfy> biab - rain has stopped - time to go for a wander
<ochosi> otherwise please check whether you can downgrade any related packages that were recently upgraded
<ochosi> elfy: ok, even after the latest updates i can't confirm your problem
<elfy> ok - I'll assume I've broken something here then :p
<elfy> thanks ochosi for confirming 
<ochosi> elfy: wait, did you say "confirming"? :)
<knome> ochosi, "confirming you can't confirm" ?
<ochosi> well yeah, it's just misleading to call that confirming :)
<knome> but it *is* a confirmation, whether the outcome was positive or negative
<elfy> confriming that I'be broken it somewhere :)
<ochosi> knome: could you talk to folks@kubuntu when you're at UDS about how they got sponsoring? http://blogs.kde.org/2012/09/21/kubuntu-got-donations-kde-needs-donations
<ochosi> knome: just since that seemed so illegal for us to do
<knome> ochosi, nobody said illegal
<knome> ochosi, we were not sure, we never really asked the legal dept
<knome> bbl
 * Guest74694 chirp chirp
<bluesabre> darn, that failed
<bluesabre> :)
<astraljava> bluesabre's a cricket?
<bluesabre> Until my cricket became Guest74694
<astraljava> Occasionally guest star visitors make that bit of a difference in brining down the house.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> So how are things, astraljava?
<astraljava> Quite diverse. I'm excited and saddened at the same time. I'm going to finally start hunting my dream, which is creating my own music.
<astraljava> And how about you?
<pleia2> xnox: haha, just saw bug 1055766
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1055766 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "grep -R doesn't automatically search amazon" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055766
<drc> :)
<Unit193> pleia2: Thanks, that report is going places!
<drc> looks like the ubuntu root-guys sent it to the "round file in the corner of the office"
<genii-around> Heh "being labeled a snark nearly made my monocle drop out!"
<Sysi> competing hard with "too sad icon" bug
<xnox> pleia2: sabdfl joined in on the fun, so I think it's all cool =)
<Unit193> I really liked that one, yes.
<pleia2> xnox: yeah :)
<ochosi> tbh i'm a bit happy that we don't have to deal with huge decisions like that one in xubuntu
<ochosi> so finally, there's an upside of not having enough contributors :p
<SkippersBoss> yeah but do we really want that upside hmm
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-26
<astraljava> Upsides are bad. You need challenges so that you will progress.
<ochosi> o hai astraljava 
<smartboyhw> wb astraljava 
<astraljava> We're having a meeting today, correct?
<smartboyhw> balloons and phillw miss you astraljava ;P
<smartboyhw> astraljava, should be
<ochosi> aha?
 * ochosi wasn't aware of the meeting
 * smartboyhw thinks if astraljava comes to today's QA and Xubuntu meetings everyone will rejoice;P
<SkippersBoss> what time 1500 utc ?
<smartboyhw> SkippersBoss, should be
 * smartboyhw goes to the QA one first then jumps to here
<SkippersBoss> or whenever knome would see fit lol
<smartboyhw> lol
<astraljava> smartboyhw: That's the thing I want to discuss in today's meeting, actually.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, oh? What do you mean?:P
<astraljava> You'll see in ~2 hours.
<astraljava> :)
<smartboyhw> astraljava, ;P
<astraljava> Well actually in less than that, I'll give a heads-up on QA for Nick and Phil.
<smartboyhw> +1 
<knome> ochosi, yeah, we have a meeting today
<ochosi> knome: nice, i might even make it :)
<knome> ochosi, great!
<knome> ochosi, we will most probably have a lightning short meeting really
<ochosi> yeah, not sure there are any real issues on the agenda, or are there?
<ochosi> unless we wanna talk about R planning
<knome> no, not really
<knome> nope, definitely not
<knome> i'm not home
<knome> there's really no old items, no team updates, just one announcement
<knome> is there people who could run or two xubuntu tests today?
<bluesabre> I possibly could this evening
<knome> yeah, we actually have time until 12UTC tomorrow
<elfy> I can tomorrow morning knome 
<knome> elfy, great!
<elfy> be well beofre 12 utc
<knome> can you cooperate on what tests people are going to run
<knome> i can run any
<knome> so just leave me the ones you can't do easily
<elfy> I can do either but not vm 
<knome> real hardware is kind of better anyway...
<ochosi> knome: any result with the icon-theme update?
<elfy> I meant wubi - but that's not there anymore 
<knome> ochosi, we'll update it after b2
<knome> elfy, yeah, we dropped wubi support :)
<ochosi> knome: ok, sounds good
<knome> ochosi, yeah, easier to get it in that way (we got uife/ffe already)
<elfy> knome: I can do any of them except autoresize - not sure I'd trust it
<knome> ochosi, as you probably noted from the bug
<ochosi> btw, for R blackbird will become a dark theme, not mixed as it was up to now
<knome> elfy, well, that's probably why you should =)
<elfy> ha ha 
<knome> elfy, but if you don't want to, that's ok
<elfy> well I could but I'd be disconnecting media drive :D
<knome> yeah, fine
<knome> but really, it's ok if you don't want to do that
<knome> i can do it under vbox
<elfy> knome: how about I check in here first thing - look at the tracker see what's been done and let you know what I can do 
<knome> elfy, nothing's been done right now
<knome> erh, can somebody update the wiki? i'm not home and i don't remember my pass
<elfy> knome: yea - but I'd assume that by tomorrow someone will have done something 
<knome> in  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<smartboyhw> knome, what to update?
<knome> add "update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Beta2 and prepare beta2 release announcement in xubuntu.org" for "announcements
<knome> +"
<elfy> there's and edit conflict now :(
<knome> haha :)
<knome> try to get it sorted boys ;)
 * smartboyhw ha an edit conflict with elfy
<elfy> smartboyhw: I've done it already 
 * smartboyhw will not edit it
<elfy> well after all that I hope that's what you meant knome :D
<knome> elfy, yep
<knome> looks fine
<elfy> okey doke
<knome> heh
<knome> there's still some extra text
<knome> look after "schedule next meeting" :D
<knome> that should be after the line i posted
<knome> ;)
<elfy> knome: so - getting back to tests - I'll look at about 6/7UTC at what there is to do and let you know what I can do in time
<knome> xubuntu community meeting in 5 minutes at #xubuntu-devel, everybody welcome
<knome> elfy, yep, sounds good :)
<knome> though i'll probably not be around then, but letting the channel know sounds good
<elfy> ok
<elfy> I hope that xubuntu will install on a new machine or I'll have to look at kde :(
<elfy> :p
<smartboyhw> :P
<knome> haha
<knome> elfy, it will.. ;)
<elfy> first time seeing how this secureboot stuff works I think
 * smartboyhw doesn't want to mention he will stick to xfce again sicne elfy wants to keep that sentence:P
<knome>  
<knome> oopd.
 * elfy has spies everywhere noting down instances of smartboyhw installing other things 
<knome> oops too, not oop daemon
<elfy> :)
 * smartboyhw runs away from elfy and maybe ignores him
<smartboyhw> meeting time in my ubuntu studio
<smartboyhw> :P
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 26 15:01:38 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> who's around for the meeting?
<smartboyhw> \o
<astraljava> o/
<knome> #chair astraljava 
<meetingology> Current chairs: astraljava knome
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: stop lurking at #shimmer 
<ochosi> o/
<knome> #chair ochosi 
<meetingology> Current chairs: astraljava knome ochosi
<bluesabre> meeting at work, sorry
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<knome> bluesabre, np :)
<knome> #action knome to draft flyer looks hopefully before UDS
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to draft flyer looks hopefully before UDS
<knome> that's the only item carried on.
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> let's go wildly, there isn't too much updates anyway
<knome> #info the new offline docs have landed to b2
<ochosi> #info latest theme fixes have landed in b2, hopefully it'll be a smooth experience from now on
<knome> #info pleia2 prepared a draft for the flyers
<knome> i suppose that's it
<knome> #info thanks everybody for getting the work items done! see http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-flavor-xubuntu.html for the awesome looking graph
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #subtopic Changes in team leads positions 
<astraljava> Alright, I'll be stepping down from my position as QA lead, effective immediately unless otherwise agreed.
<knome> astraljava, the floor is cleared for you for the boogie-dance
<ochosi> :'(
<knome> astraljava, acking that it's ok to step down immediately.
<ochosi> what's the good news?
<elfy> indeed :(
<astraljava> I'll be here less?
<knome> #info astraljava will no longer be serving as the QA lead, effective immediately
<ochosi> oh wow :)
<ochosi> bummer
 * smartboyhw cries again...
<knome> astraljava has told he's going to do more of the programming stuff if life allows :)
<knome> he's not going to disappear completely
<astraljava> We can chat about unofficial stuff after the meeting.
<knome> that's the good news
<knome> yup
<ochosi> ok :)
<ochosi> astraljava: anyway, i think you did a really swell job there!
<ochosi> astraljava: thanks a lot
<knome> yup, thanks astraljava 
<smartboyhw> thx astraljava 
<astraljava> Thanks, appreciated!
<knome> it took a lot of things i wasn't familiar with off my shoulders
<ochosi> knome: well now you have them back, how does it feel? :)
<astraljava> Oh, one more thing related to this.
<knome> ochosi, i'll just redelegate :P
<elfy> lol
<astraljava> I want to announce this on ubuntu-qa and ubuntu-release, so who shall I name as my replacement?
<ochosi> knome: yeah, who do you re-delegate to?
<knome> astraljava, i will take the tasks for release manager
<astraljava> OK. Takers for QA contact person?
<knome> is there volunteers for sending reminders to test the ISOs and all that other QA stuff?
<elfy> depends what's involved 
<astraljava> Mostly a weekly meeting on -qa.
 * smartboyhw wonders if he just got astraljava's position in Ubuntu Studio can he also do the Xubuntu one...:P escapes
<knome> and what i said ^
<elfy> I'm happy to do it - but not sure whether I'd manage the tasks as I con't know then
<astraljava> Keeping in touch with development of Xubuntu, staying up-to-date with vanilla, in relation to our flavor.
<elfy> s/don't
<knome> elfy, we'll help you with it
<elfy> ok then 
<astraljava> elfy: I'm not fully going away, so you can always ask.
<knome> great! :)
<astraljava> Don't think you'll need mentoring, but some sort of that stuff. :)
<knome> #action knome will take the release manager tasks from astraljava
<meetingology> ACTION: knome will take the release manager tasks from astraljava
 * elfy squeezes 25th hour into day
<elfy> astraljava: thanks :)
<knome> #action elfy will take the QA contact person tasks from astraljava
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy will take the QA contact person tasks from astraljava
<astraljava> You might want to reconsider that, elfy...
<knome> thanks elfy!
<elfy> lol
<astraljava> Spoke too soon?!
<elfy> welcome
<knome> so, next item
 * smartboyhw congrats elfy and hopes that 25th hour wouldn't be wasted:P
<knome> #subtopic Update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview/Beta2 and prepare beta2 release announcement at xubuntu.org
<knome> yeah, so we need to update those
<knome> i will take care of the former once the latter is done, preferably today
<knome> those in the xubuntu-team can access and edit the draft, just login with ubuntu SSO at xubuntu.org/wp-admin
<knome> feel free to add anything you think might be worth mentioning
<knome> it's easier to remove stuff than think if we missed something...
<elfy> well I'd be inclined to let people know they might get 2 instances of drives on desktop/in thunar
<knome> oh, right
<knome> since elfy is the QA contact person now, i'll add him to ~xubuntu-team at LP later today
<elfy> disconcerting to say the least
<knome> elfy, so you'll get to update that yourself.
<knome> :)
<elfy> :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<knome> so, that's it for the announcements
<knome> #topic New and emerging stuff
<knome> any other topics we should cover?
<elfy> panic in the QA department? 
 * smartboyhw calls mayday then
<knome> is there panic?
<ochosi> wondering whether we should start to collect all R-related stuff in one place at some point
<knome> oh right
<ochosi> i mean right now there are a few blueprints and specs
<ochosi> but they're a bit scattered
<knome> #info https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/R
<ochosi> oh good
<knome> will make that the default page for Roadmap soonish
<knome> and there's the main blueprint too...
<ochosi> actually i'll quickly update that page a bit
<knome> if only i can find that
<ochosi> there are a few issues that could be dropped, because they actually belong to xfce
<knome> #info https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-r-flavor-xubuntu
<knome> that
<knome> let's get back to those a bit more informally during the next week(s)
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<knome> is there any reason why we should have a meeting next week?
<ochosi> dunno, any b2 related stuff we need to discuss?
<ochosi> (i don't think so)
<knome> not really, unless things break horribly
<knome> which we don't hope to happen, so...
<ochosi> k, sounds good
<knome> so two weeks from now?
<knome> it's about a week before release
<ochosi> why not
<knome> and a day after final freeze :P
<knome> but a day before RC
<knome> #info next meeting: 2012/10/10, 15UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 26 15:24:11 2012 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-09-26-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2012/xubuntu-devel.2012-09-26-15.01.html
<knome> thanks
<knome> i'll put the meetings up later again
<smartboyhw> Thx knome, congrats elfy and thx astraljava 
<elfy> astraljava knome - I'll let you know in the channel I invited you too :)
<ochosi> knome: never sure what to add to the release-notes. "new and better artwork"? i could write that every release...
<knome> ochosi, yeah, it's good to mention that every time.
<ochosi> k, i guess my stuff is already there
<ochosi> artwork and parole mostly
<GridCube> D: there was a meeting?
<knome> yep
<knome> anyway, i'm not really off
<knome> see you all later!
<GridCube> there was a mail about i missed it?
<knome> not sure
<knome> probably not, but the meetings page would have told you
<smartboyhw> GridCube, yes you missed the meeting clearly:P
<knome> you should probably subscribe to the meetings wikipage
<knome> to get notifications of changes
<knome> :)
<knome> let's look at that later.
<knome> see you!
<knome> ->
<GridCube> :/
<smartboyhw> GridCube, don't worry:)
<smartboyhw> Just some er HR changes:P
<astraljava> ochosi: So yeah, about my future contributions; I'll start doing less regular activities, cause what I'm about to start won't permit as constant watching over the flavor as that position required. This does mean, though, that more spurious development activities can be more easily engaged.
<ochosi> astraljava: that sounds good actually
<astraljava> Won't be disbanding the community, but likely won't commit to many things that are dependant to release schedules.
<astraljava> I've been involved with developing Studio for 6+ years now, it's about time to actually start using it. :)
<smartboyhw> astraljava, LOL
<smartboyhw> astraljava, srsly you haven't er USED it before?:P
<astraljava> So, whenever I spot an issue with anything related to the processes, I might make an attempt to fix it.
<astraljava> smartboyhw: I've used the distribution, but not the main tools it carries.
<smartboyhw> astraljava, ah.
<astraljava> Ie. recording utilities, sound processing tools etc.
 * smartboyhw uses Ubuntu Studio mainly for video purpose:P (To get rid of Windows 8 and time to install single apps:P
<SkippersBoss> i ve missed the meeting sorry guess
<SkippersBoss> guys
<elfy> knome: well I wrote to the -dev and -users list re the beta test - hope that it looks like what you want :)
<elfy> astraljava or knome - or in fact anyone who knows - where are the testcases that people can follow now, the wiki long one still exists but the short one appears to have disappeared
<Unit193> I have a script that basically has the info.
<astraljava> elfy: That is interesting, for sure. Anyway, you might wanna talk to balloons and phillw, the new testcase format has stepped in, and you can have a look at those from the iso.qa.u.c links.
<astraljava> elfy: Currently Xubuntu is a little behind on those, my apologies for that.
<astraljava> But there are still testcases there, I'm sure there's a fallback case or something in place.
<elfy> the short one has disappeared :(
<elfy> from the wiki tests
<elfy> I mailed the lists to get people to do some - first thing I get asked is where's the info to test against lol
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Short?action=recall&rev=5  knome Marked it as moved.
<elfy> well I don't what we're supposed to use :(
<elfy> if someone can work it out I'd be grateful if they can post to the lists - I've got to go 
<Unit193> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1433/info and http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1434/info ?  Second seems like the long one though. :/
<Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/XubuntuDesktop  Old one.  I still like the short one best.
<elfy> Unit193: thanks those 2 look like the riight ones I assume that 1433 is for the installation tests and 1434 is for post installation
<elfy> not many of the tests appear to have xubuntu testcases
<elfy> give up - got to go - cya later
<Unit193> Yeah, don't know where short is.
<Unit193> Adios.
<knome> astraljava, all the testcases are in the ISO tracker
<knome> astraljava, we're actually *ahead* in it :)
<astraljava> knome: *oops*
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah, i should delete the long test from the wiki.
<astraljava> So you've merged everything into the new testcase tracker? I was just puzzled because it said it didn't belong to any Xubuntu test suites.
<knome> yes, they're all in the tracker
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/238/builds/24260/testcases
<astraljava> Oh, sorry again. My eyes are not what they used to be, it seems.
<knome> as you see, there's the old (installation) tests
<knome> and there's the post-installation (short) and desktop (long) tests
<bluesabre> ochosi should start a series of gimp-tutorials :)
<knome> you mean now that we removed it from the default installation? :P
<bluesabre> yes
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'd need nerves of steel for something like that :)
<knome> rather create some inkscape tutorials
<bluesabre> true
<knome> though that sounds something i should do
<bluesabre> Until we get a Xubuntu HUD, inkscape will continue to be difficult to navigate
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> inkscape is UI hell
<knome> nah
<knome> you aren't just competent
<knome> :P
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> back when i'm home
<Os_Maleus> hey guys! 
<Os_Maleus> I wanted to get a big thanks to You all rid here! You did and are doing an amazingly great job! keep up with that! 
<Os_Maleus> Actually, I have no big idea how a PC is working. But with a bit of interest, I have changed a year ago over to Xubuntu. before, I was using Windows. Having another profession than IT, I don't believe, I will manage to understand everything about Linux. But meanwhile I manage to do some things even better than I was able to perform with Windows. Your working-result makes really fun to use and I am even thinking about to kick down Windows
<ochosi> Os_Maleus: thanks, always very nice to hear! :)
<Os_Maleus> b(^_^)d
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-27
<elfy> knome: where are people supposed to put results for the post install and desktop tests when they've archived them already :(
<astraljava> elfy: If you haven't already, I suggest asking on -testing, there is possibly a bug with the testcases for post-installation and desktop cases, install tests seem to be fine.
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> thanks
<astraljava> But yeah I agree this is a big issue, time is scarce.
<elfy> I saw it happen as well :(
<elfy> one minute it was there, next poof - gone 
<astraljava> Damn, that's not supposed to happen.
<elfy> I was http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/238/builds/24259/testcases/1434/results - reloaded page for some reason - archived 
<elfy> well I asked in -testing 
<elfy> at least I did do the tests lol 
<astraljava> Noticed, thanks. Interested to see what is the cause for that.
<elfy> yea - bit mad really, and I understand the testcases now as well - the install ones are common - just the other two are specific
<astraljava> True.
<knome> elfy, archived? hmm..
<knome> elfy, you have now access to xubuntu.org/wp-admin
<elfy> thanks knome 
<knome> np
<elfy> if you need to know, those tests all went archived sometime between 6:15UTC and 6:35UTC
<knome> aha
<knome> :/
<knome> well, i signed off the images anyway
<elfy> indeed :/
<elfy> k - I did actually test them - so everything except autoresize has been tested at least once
<elfy> 2 of the bugs I saw - I assume to be either as planned, something that's not xubuntu - the only real bug I saw was the dupe partitions
<knome> yup
<knome> thanks
<astraljava> elfy: smartboyhw: knome: 'Twas in the ancient times, upon the distant lands of Ubuntu Studio, that ubuntu-utah-devel@lists.u.c was softly whispered into the cool evening breeze. It fell upon me to deliver this secret onto thee. Heed my words, and seize the day. Or something...
 * smartboyhw doesn't understand astraljava's poem sorry:P
<astraljava> And no, I haven't been drinking.
<astraljava> That much, anyway.
<elfy> lol
<smartboyhw> ;P
 * elfy wonders what that's all about 
 * smartboyhw thinks it is about QA:P
<elfy> really? 
<knome> elfy, automated testing
<knome> elfy, we should look at that for R
<elfy> aah
 * smartboyhw does not understand what IS automated testing sorry
<astraljava> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-q-ubuntu-automation-test-harness, https://launchpad.net/utah mainly talk about it.
<elfy> so this utah is not Utah - as in some state in America
<astraljava> Not really. It used to be UATH, but that was too close to being funny, they made it funnier.
<elfy> LOL
<smartboyhw> LOL
<astraljava> It'll improve your testing perfomance immensily, if setup correctly. Granted, I'm not fully aware of how well it'd work for Studio or Xubuntu, but it's worth a shot. Gema is the gal to talk to.
 * smartboyhw knows gema since she just talked to him two days agoP
<elfy> I can follow that up if necessary - I'll have a spare machine soon as well that I can dedicate - but I need to have a proper read of that 
<pleia2> I did 3 tests on tuesday night, but they aren't seeming to be counted on the tracker (they are in user stats for beta2 though)
<pleia2> anyway, it looked good :)
 * pleia2 late2theparty
<elfy> :)
<SkippersBoss> what party ??
<astraljava> It'sAlmostFridayParty.
<SkippersBoss> i should have known
<astraljava> http://isitfridayyet.org/
<astraljava> Soon...
<astraljava> Oh sorry, wrong channel.
<davmor2> astraljava: when ever a site starts ISIT  the answer is almost always NO!!!
<astraljava> Well, not for 14.3% of time...
<pleia2> the beta2 party ;)
<elfy> knome - Duplicated partitions might be shown at Thunar sidebar - and they'll be on the desktop too if they are there
<knome> elfy, mh
<knome> updated
<elfy> ok - if I could have I would have :)
<knome> yeah i know
<pleia2> haz beta2
<pleia2> put on twitter and g+
<Unit193> xubuntu-default settings: http://pastebin.com/vtgiimPy notifi-daemon rather than xfce, and some other odd ones.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-28
<astraljava> Unit193: How did you manage that?
<Unit193> apt-get install xubuntu-default-settings in a... mini.iso env-ish, kinda.
<astraljava> Interesting.
<astraljava> What happens if you only attempt to install xubuntu-desktop?
<Unit193> xubuntu-desktop should pulll in everything, the idea is to pull in just what xubuntu looks like, and the config.
<astraljava> Oh. Well.
<Unit193> !info lubuntu-core
<Unit193> Style
<ubottu> lubuntu-core (source: lubuntu-meta): Lubuntu Desktop environment - minimal installation. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.38 (precise), package size 3 kB, installed size 30 kB (Only available for i386; amd64; powerpc; ia64; sparc; lpia; armel; armhf)
<Unit193> astraljava: Quantal, found a 1xxMB squashfs(sp) file, and fixed that plus something up, chrooted in, and tried it out.
<astraljava> Sure. I noticed you guys had played with that thought. Is it going to be a supported way of installation in the future?
<Unit193> Mini.iso+xubuntu-desktop?  I'd hope so, and I plan on helping with that.
<astraljava> I could actually be interested in assisting if there's a need for that.
<Unit193> I'm still interested in the minimal Xubuntu.
<olbi> some1 know, when will be fixed bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1054054
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049025 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1054054 Can't select text/highlight using mouse" [Undecided,Triaged]
<olbi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1049025, some1 tested LO 3.6.2 pre?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1049025 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Can't select text/highlight using mouse" [Undecided,Triaged]
<olbi> where is file to translate xflock screen?
<olbi> is it possible to translate it?
<ochosi> the lockscreen is xscreensaver
<olbi> because I cant find in po file Username and Password :P
<ochosi> well yes, xflock is not the droid you're looking for
<olbi> so, what you suggest? :)
<ochosi> xscreensaver
<pleia2> giving xubuntu presentation picture! http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2012/09/meet-the-ubuntu-women.php
<bluesabre> :D
<smartboyhw> ;S
<smartboyhw> Oops
<smartboyhw> *:D
<pleia2> :)
<GridCube> :D 
<smartboyhw> ;D
<GridCube> having you around is now like saying, BUT WAIT! we have pleia2 on our side, and make others tremble upon her name
<GridCube> XD
<pleia2> haha
<GridCube> we are calling you "That who should be named" too, its oficial :P
<smartboyhw> ;P
<knome> hey pleia2 :)
<pleia2> g'day knome 
<knome> very late evening, but g' anyway :P
<pleia2> it's only 15:40 :)
<knome> haha ;)
<pleia2> I was hoping the case badges would come in today, but nothing so far :(
<knome> heh
<knome> so, how's life generally?
<pleia2> good good, busy
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-29
 * elfy thought stuff was taken from the default so iso would fit on cd ... 
<torax> elfy: gimp and some languages, at least what I heard
 * smartboyhw thinks some least popular languages is removed
<elfy> yea I knwo what was removed, thought it was done so it'd fit on a cd - apparently it doesn't
 * smartboyhw is surprised that amd64 is 678M while i386 is 701M...Doesn't make sense
<xnox> smartboyhw: langpacks were removed per arch. diff the two manifests.
<elfy> not sure where thecog got his from but "The iso image is 736407552 bytes - 731MB. " 
<elfy> I'll find out in due course I'm sure
<Sysi> slideshow in quantal looks great, though serif font in topic is a bit weird
<Sysi> alacarte doesn't seem to work
<len-dt> Question for whoever. I am running Ubuntustudio 12.04 on my daily use machine. And decided to run thunar as my default FM for a while.
<len-dt> I have found that if I use it for mounting a USB stick and then copy something to that stick it is often hard to unmount.
<len-dt> The FM is back to home dir not the stick, I have tried "sync" and the only thing That seems to work is "kill tumblerd".
<len-dt> The umount works... or hitting the triangle beside the drive in the FM
<len-dt> Just wondering: A) if anyone has seen this.  B) if it is still there in 12.10 (where I have not had time to test yet)
<len-dt> I am not sure if it makes a difference if the stick is automounted or manually by clicking on it in the FM.
 * len-dt thinks it has been the automount instance where he has noticed it.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-30
<knome> i've written a wordpress-plugin to manage countdown banner settings (we can turn the "release switch" on/off ourself) and rewritten the countdown banner script to accommodate to that
<knome> i'm going to ask IS to create us a subdomain countdown.xubuntu.org, which will simply output you the latest countdown image
 * smartboyhw likes a countdown:P
<knome> now, the question is: do we need a feature to overwrite this image randomly; eg. if beta2 is released, we could temporarily point to another image file
<knome> (i was thinking that we could try to keep the url online and "alive" all the time, even in the beginning of the cycle. these temporarily images could then be anything; telling people to follow our twitter feed or so
<knome> anyway, bbl
<knome> pleia2, ^ comments plz
<pleia2> knome: seems like a lot of work maintaining so many banners, not sure it's worth it long term
<knome> pleia2, i'm not sure if you understood...
<knome> pleia2, currently, if you use the banner at xubuntu.org/countdown, it says 12.04 is out
<knome> pleia2, and of course, it should soon start counting down to 12.10 - which we have done previously
<knome> pleia2, and that will be done, and in the future, we only need IS to upload our image files, like before
<knome> pleia2, but in addition, the WP plugin could allow us to use temporary images with no IS
<knome> pleia2, eg. a month after 12.10 release, we can create a single banner that says "give us feedback", and from the web UI make xubuntu.org/countdown serve that instead of "12.10 is out!"
<knome> pleia2, and when we want, simply remove the link, and it'll say "12.10 is out!" again, as scheduled byt the normal countdown stuff
<knome> pleia2, we don't NEED to have these "special" banners if we don't want, but i can make it possible to use those if we want to
<knome> pleia2, otherwise we can only ever have normal countdown banners (which is fine too if you think that's enough)
<pleia2> ah, well if we don't need to use them then it's ok :) I was just worried we'd end up with having alpha1 banners sitting around if you got busy and couldn't make another
<pleia2> (some weeks it's hard enough to even write our release notes, let alone make new pretty banner)
<knome> lol, no
<knome> the thing is
<knome> we only have the special banner if we set one up
<knome> and for the normal countdown, we will have had to upload things via IS
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> but i'm not even sure myself if we need this
<knome> sounds like advertising
<knome> especially if people use the banner on their website, some self-advertising can be a bit intimidating
<pleia2> I've been happy enough with the existing ones
<knome> ok, good then
<knome> i'll push what i have now, and we should be flying soon
<pleia2> yay :)
<pleia2> http://dc.ubuntu-us.org/node/39 :)
<knome> :)
<pleia2> it's actually not very xubuntu after sweets is installed, but still
<knome> lol
<knome> more xubuntu than windows
<knome> again, bbl
<pleia2> good enough for me!
<pleia2> knome: I vote we do tourist stuff on Friday, and while doing tourist stuff we'll talk about xubuntu too ;)
<knome> worksforme
<pleia2> yay
<pleia2> "look, a mermaid! ...yes, I agree that we should continue not to have birds on our background image"
<knome> :D
<astraljava> Well, how about mermaids for 13.04?
<knome> astraljava, only if you'll model
<astraljava> I'll have to learn how to grow fish scales, first.
<Sysi> how will that fit "rampant rabbit"
<knome> i suppose badly without lube
 * knome hides
<Sysi> 10.10 should've been "merry mermaid"
<SkippersBoss> i do know we re in the 21th century now but i do not think xu needs to be xxx rated
<SkippersBoss> bad enough that ubuntu is moving into amazon 
<SkippersBoss> dont get me wrong /me loves amazon but uts something i choose myself not have forced upon me
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-23
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/uExwgidhc045zVPJ7fS6/ more or less.
<ochosi> brainwash: could you re-pastebin your patch for the greeter's language menu? or submit it as a real patch, as you prefer
<ochosi> it's lost in my backlog somewhere
<ochosi> brainwash: could you re-pastebin your patch for the greeter's language menu? or submit it as a real patch, as you prefer
<brainwash> ochosi: http://lpaste.net/93287
<ochosi> thanks, that patch makes sense :)
<brainwash> well, no magical stuff involved :D
<ochosi> yeah (which is good! :))
<brainwash> the xfce4-session package does not recommend "consolekit" anymore due to transition to systemd/logind, but it should recommend "systemd-shim" instead from now on (it does not yet). any thoughts?
<brainwash> bug 1221809
<ubottu> bug 1221809 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "systemd-shim removal causes restart to logout" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1221809
<ochosi> for everyone who's interested in the stupid abiword ruler issue we used to have, look here: http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13301
<ubottu> bugzilla.abisource.com bug 13301 in Front End - GTK "AbiWord 2.9.2 Ruler widget looks bad in GTK3" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ochosi> btw, it only seems to affect greybird, bluebird and orion currently (albatross, numix, adwaita seem fine)
<knome> ochosi, we should pick that up
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> is the update notifier indicator not showing up at all?
<elfy> I don't see it - update mangler has started showing up again recently though
<brainwash> strange
<brainwash> besides, I installed htop using the software center, it actually did install htop.. and crashed in the end
<brainwash> typical USC story I guess :)
<jjfrv8> only had time to do one testcase this morning. will do more tonight.
<knome> jjfrv8, mhm, no problem :)
<elfy> thanks jjfrv8 
<knome> (and yeah, thanks, you are already part of the minority ;))
<knome> hey GridCube 
<knome> GridCube, you able to run some testing this cycle?
<GridCube> hey mister knome 
<GridCube> i might try
<knome> beta 2 testing is up until thursday
<knome> then we need even more testing for RC
<GridCube> ok thats the same zsynck all the way right?
<knome> the images shouldn't need zsync before thurday, they are freezed
<knome> but yes, after that, zsyncing will eventually get you the RC images
<GridCube> ok so ill fetch todays image and keep them updated
<knome> GridCube, thanks, every test is much appreciated
<GridCube> :) will try to do them
<elfy> cool - I'd hate to have to set forestpiskie on you :)
<GridCube> there is only a xubuntu amd64 iso to download 
<GridCube> is that correct?
<elfy> atm the 32bit is not there - there's a problem at ubuntu somewhere
<GridCube> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/303/builds
<GridCube> ok
<knome> the build machine has gone offline, so yes, you'll have to wait for the 32-bit images
<GridCube> ok, im fetching this iso for now :) this machine supports making 64bits vms :D 
<GridCube> thats what im running at the moment
<knome> bluesabre, you gonna run tests? :)
<bluesabre> when I get home tonight, sure!
<knome> great
<olbi> hello guys, I have been running dailys updates and there are errors with USC which is crashed sometimes after installing software
<knome> olbi, have you filed a bug?
<olbi> not yet, I need to check this with todays Beta, maybe it was fixed :)
<knome> no idea about that, but sure
<knome> if you do a clean install, report the installation to the iso tracker, please
<knome> (with appropriate bugs found)
<olbi> yes, of course
<elfy> I've not seen it today - but I only tried installing and removing one thing
<olbi> how I can change avatar at logon screen?
<knome> olbi, cp yourimage.jpg ~/.face
<olbi> ok :)
<bluesabre> yup, gotta get mugshot into 14.04
<knome> olbi, we'll have an application for that in T, if everything goes as expected
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> ^ that
<olbi> cool :D
<elfy> brb
<olbi> are we planning to add Whisker Menu and Xfce Theme Manager as plugins in next release?
<brainwash> theme manager is already included
<brainwash> isn't it?
<knome> yes, gtk-theme-config is in the seed
<GridCube> olbi, if you make a wikipage to promote them i might tag with you on the whisker menu :D
<elfy> <knome> olbi, cp yourimage.jpg ~/.face - doesn't work here
<elfy> is there some specific size of image needed?
<brainwash> 96x96
<brainwash> I think
<GridCube> or, get mugshot P:
<knome> elfy, that should though. ask for details from bluesabre (unless you don't have yourimage.jpg and are just trolling :P)
<elfy> I'd not troll in here :)
<knome> heh
 * elfy should check out mugshot really 
<knome> probably
<knome> it allows you to control much more than just the profile image
<elfy> I'll grab it when I see bluesabre next time 
<GridCube> he is like here right now P:
<elfy> thought he said he was off somewhere
<bluesabre> mugshot details and ppa info: http://www.smdavis.us/2013/07/27/mugshot-quick-and-easy-user-config/
<brainwash> elfy: it did work for me, random 64x64 png file
<elfy> bluesabre: daily or stable? if you'd rather I installed the daily so I can test things if you want I'm happy to
<bluesabre> elfy, your choice, not much dev happening on it at the moment, so they are probably the same right now
<elfy> ok - well I'll go for the daily one and if you want anything tested by 'just this guy' you can shout :)
<bluesabre> sure thing, thanks!
<elfy> :)
<elfy> bluesabre: no menu entry for it?
<bluesabre> its in your settings manager
<bluesabre> "About Me"
<elfy> aaah
<elfy> went there and looked for mugshot :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> a little misleading, but hey what can I do ;)
<knome> bluesabre, change it? :P
<bluesabre> no way!
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> :P
<knome> yeah, i just pointed you "can" do that...
<elfy> I assume you know that help fails
<bluesabre> news to me
<elfy> ok The URI âghelp:mugshotâ does not point to a valid page.
<bluesabre> strange
<bluesabre> I'll have a look at the package tonight
<elfy> sorry :(
<elfy> lol
<knome> elfy, thanks
<knome> elfy, better notice that now than when 14.04 is out...
<bluesabre> yup, thanks elfy
 * elfy thanks the shaky hand that missed the enormous icon button ... 
<knome> :D
<knome> bluesabre, want to create a debdiff for micahg for the gmb stuff?
<bluesabre> I thought he already mostly had one together?
<knome> i didn't think anything :)
<bluesabre> good idea
<bluesabre> yeah, I'll see about throwing one together tonight
<knome> thanks
<elfy> I'll join in on that plan
<elfy> the not thinking one - just in case you get any ideas ... 
<knome> we'll probably land that after B2, there's already only so much time to run that testing
<bluesabre> yeah, if today is b2 freeze there's no way you'll see it for b2 :D
<knome> well there is but...
<knome> :D
<knome> there's always ways to get stuff in
<bluesabre> didn't you say the isos get locked today?
<knome> sure... but don't you think there is a way to un(b)lock? :)
<knome> just not worth it.
<bluesabre> its easier to imagine that there is not :)
<knome> but it's always possible
<knome> lol
<knome> well, a rebuild should be a press of a button for you too, since you are in xubuntu-release
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<elfy> keep up :)
 * bluesabre has super cow powers
<elfy> bluesabre: you want me to report that help thing as a bug so it doesn't get lost?
<bluesabre> elfy, yeah if you don't mind
<bluesabre> might also try logging out of your session and back in
<bluesabre> not sure if yelp/ghelp need to do some sort of updating
<elfy> ok - I'll do that first then
<elfy> bluesabre: I'll report it 
<bluesabre> thanks elfy
<elfy> bluesabre: shall I subscribe us to it? 
<knome> please do that
<bluesabre> yes please
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mugshot/+bug/1229205
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1229205 in Mugshot "Help button results in Document not found" [Undecided,New]
<GridCube> it works on 13.04
<GridCube> just tested it :)
<knome> off for now
<ali1234> i've got a weird glitch... a small square in the top left of the screen that sits above all windows except the panel
<GridCube> can  you screenshot it?
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFLenkPPwXM
<ali1234> btw it is black on the left side because of the menu shadow
<GridCube> mmm yes
<ali1234> each time i open the menu it gets a little bit darker
<ali1234> i notice the glitch itself has a shadow
<ali1234> but it doesn't receive X input and especially xwininfo just passes through to the window behind
<GridCube> mmm
<GridCube> and xkill? 
<GridCube> wont kill it?
<ali1234> it will kill whatever window is behind it
<ali1234> restarting the panel makes it go away
<GridCube> do you know how to try to repeat it?
<ali1234> no, i never notice it appearing
<ali1234> i just notice it's there
<ali1234> it has happened several times though
<GridCube> ali1234, :) try and see if you can figure a way to repeat it please 
<ali1234> it is hard to tell when exactly it happens because when it's a region that isn't redrawing... so it has perfect camouflage
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> i figure that much
<ali1234> figuring out what owns it would help i think
<ali1234> xfdesktop --reload doesn't make it go away
<ali1234> ah i think i know exactly what it is
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it's the notification area (not indicators, the old gnome "tray" stuff)
<GridCube> :D
<ali1234> it's a 20x20 glitch because that is what size the notification icons are
<ali1234> removing just the notification area from the panel made it go away
<ali1234> and it appears when some java program makes a notification icon
<GridCube> ali1234, please report a bug against it
<brainwash> try to disable the xfwm4's compositor
<brainwash> isn't this a well known bug?
<ali1234> is there some java program that makes a tray icon in the repos?
<ali1234> http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=8166
<GridCube> ali1234, what xubuntu version are you using?
<ali1234> saucy
<GridCube> mmm i understand that in saucy there is a new plugin indicator applet for gtk3 indicators
<ali1234> yes there is
<GridCube> is the java application using this?
<ali1234> no
<GridCube> i see
<ali1234> well actually that code is not in saucy yet
<ali1234> but anyway, this is only with the legacy notification system aka system tray
<GridCube> yes, thats what i was thinking
<ali1234> the plugin is called "Notification Area" (but it has nothing to do with the pop up alert bubbles)
<ali1234> it's almost certainly a java bug anyway
<ali1234> like the one where accessing the clipboard from java leaks a copy of whatever is on the clipboard every single time
 * GridCube doesnt know
<ali1234> java is complete rubbish :/
<brainwash> so it's not related to xfwm4's compositor?
<ali1234> well it might only happen when compositing is switched on
<ali1234> but that's irrelevant - everything else that uses notification icons works fine
<ali1234> hmm i have an idea what it might be actually
<GridCube> is it a feature now that the current desktop background turns into the lightdm background?
<GridCube> i mean is that expected?
<elfy> expected
<elfy> GridCube: you seen the 32bit are there now
<GridCube> im doing the amd64 one
<GridCube> i am assuming the image is the same as earlier
<brainwash> GridCube: accountsservice is responsible for this behavior
<GridCube> ok :) is that i made an image with gimp, saved it as png and used it as background and then when i logged out it was there :P
<ali1234> yeah that's been a feature for a couple of releases for unity users at least
<ali1234> dunno if anything special was needed for xfce, probably not
<Unit193> Works in Rarin'
<GridCube> never noticed in raring
<GridCube> but then again i never use the login manager
<GridCube> had to install synaptic 'cos USC would not allow me to set up my proxy
<GridCube> proxies are the worst in xubuntu
<GridCube> besides the abiword and the sound indicator everything seems fine
<GridCube> reported
<ali1234> i use ssh and socks for proxying
<elfy> thanks GridCube 
<ali1234> no particular setup needed, you do need a ssh account somewhere of course
<Unit193> ali1234: You use polipo or the like as well?
<GridCube> you cant use USC out of the box in xubuntu if you have a proxy
<ali1234> no, i just type in the proxy settings directly to firefox
<GridCube> i find it rather bad that ubbiquity doesnt ask you for networking setting to set up things properly from there, i remember that using the alternate iso you could do so
<Unit193> Heh, sadly not everything I use will take a socks proxy.
<ali1234> i only use proxying to evade blocked services, such as my mobile provider blocking irc and various chat programs
<ali1234> and also i use it as a poor man's cloak
<ali1234> so in practice this means i only proxy pidgin, and sometimes firefox
<Unit193> libxfce4ui got tagged.
<bluesabre> libxfce4ui got tagged?  what does that mean?
<elfy> someone ran up behind it and shouted "You're it"
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4ui/  means you don't have to roll from git head to get gtk3 indicators.
<knome> elfy, oi! in-flight collision :P
<elfy> wut
<knome> elfy, we both replied to that last post on the ML
<elfy> I be you said - that's one test ... 
<knome> nah, two tests it is
<knome> and two replies ;)
<elfy> yay
<elfy> xpl and qa lead agreeing without knowing :p
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> woot!
 * elfy will have to work on that ... 
<Unit193> Wow, better record it.
<knome> record? we aren't corded...
<davmor2> knome: if you're not corded does that mean you are cordless?
<knome> davmor2, yep.
<knome> davmor2, cordless, but aging analog device
<knome> there isn't even a vga port let alone hdmi outputs
<davmor2> haha
<elfy> not sure you should be talking about me like that ... 
<elfy> :)
<GridCube> but you do have organic photsensive receptors that took like 1.000.000.000 years to develope
<knome> they're aging as well, not brand new anymore
<elfy> all that time to develop and 50 years to ruin them ... 
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> Bleh, was going to actually build xubuntu-core and see what it'd really pull in from a mini, but more effort than I'd want. :P
<elfy> Unit193: I'll get the QA apprentice to do it ... 
<Unit193> It's not hard, just :effort: :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> knome: just realised there's no upgrade tests there for b2 - shall I add them - can't remember if it's likely to end up losing the exisiting b2 tests
<elfy> nobody else has them enabled 
<knome> elfy, that won't affect current tests since it's a different product
<knome> elfy, we could just run those with the RC
<elfy> ok - I'll remember to set them 
<knome> i'd imagine they're enabled for all flavors then, but it's always good to double-check
<elfy> yep
<knome> i was about to say nice testing, but then i realized it's mostly you who did the tests
<elfy> lol
<elfy> I'm not makring them ready - going to see how many pitch up :)
<brainwash> is there a list of bugs which have to be fixed before final release?
<knome> brainwash, http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-flavor-xubuntu.html
<brainwash> knome: thanks
<knome> what's lacking there is the abiword ruler theming fix, bug 1031137
<ubottu> bug 1031137 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Abiword has strange black color" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1031137
<elfy> knome: and how do we get the fix in ? 
 * elfy hasn't ever really followed a bug that's got a bug fixed elsewhere
<elfy> that sort of makes less sense than it did in my head ... 
<brainwash> according to ochosi it might be fixable by adjusting the affected shimmer-themes
<brainwash> not an easy task I guess
<elfy> missed that then - last I saw/read he was saying he'd been there before with it 
<brainwash> this one here on the other hand shouldn't be that hard to fix: bug 1227637
<ubottu> bug 1227637 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "non existing key specified in override file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227637
<elfy> brainwash: it would be for me ;)
<brainwash> could it be added to the progress list?
<brainwash> the bug report I mean
<knome> brainwash, i talked with him earlier, but from the upstream bug i understood that the patch alone would fix most of the problems without touching themes
<knome> the latter isn't a very high-importance though? it doesn't really break anything, just throws a warning
<brainwash> yes, an annoying warning :)
<knome> sure, but still only a warning :)
<knome> setting as importance low
<brainwash> thanks
<knome> i'm guessing the first thing to do would be checking what happens if that override is removed - does that change the behavior
<knome> if not, then just remove it; if it does, how to apply that without throwing a warning
<brainwash> I removed it and the warning does not show up anymore, kinda expected, because the update-notifier dconf key does not exist anymore and therefore can't be altered
<knome> yep
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi: bug 1221426
<ubottu> bug 1221426 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "incorrect mimetype in defaults.list" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1221426
<Unit193> brainwash: Which I hope means they changed the default rather than removed the config option.  Several other keys are removed as well.
<knome> ochosi, bug 1069813
<ubottu> bug 1069813 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Applications like gufw and gtkorphan doesn't appear in Xubuntu's menu" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1069813
<knome> ochosi, fixed description, bug 1069813
<brainwash> ah, the missing icon issue
<brainwash> there's also a duplicate somewhere
<brainwash> bug 1063512
<ubottu> bug 1063512 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Does not display icon if desktop file extension is in icon path " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1063512
<Unit193> I had booted the VM to compare the two com.ubuntu.update-notifier.gschema.xml files.
<knome> brainwash, marked as duplicate
<brainwash> I did not expect that this missing icon problem still exists
<bluesabre> yay, parole has a purpose!
<knome> bluesabre, you too, maybe we should try to slip a bugfix in ;)
<bluesabre> yup, will try to do that tonight
<knome> cheers
<brainwash> knome: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/0.138
<knome> brainwash, oh right, that explains then. maybe add a comment and a link to that, and then we can mark the bug triaged
<brainwash> knome: done
<knome> cheers
<bluesabre> our team is doing awesome work this cycle :D
<knome> bluesabre, bug 1227537 if you feel like it
<ubottu> bug 1227537 in gnome-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "crashes with gsettings-desktop-schemas 3.10" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227537
<knome> bluesabre, i can wholeheartedly agree
<bluesabre> knome, is that the right bug?
<knome> no
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> bug 1227637
<ubottu> bug 1227637 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "non existing key specified in override file" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227637
<knome> i would imagine it's just poking that one file and remove the key, then debdiff or whatever, and ramp it up the sponsor queue
<bluesabre>  yup
<knome> and if you have a patch in the bug, it's possible that dholbach picks it up
<bluesabre> easy fix
<knome> ...and you got yet another sponsored upload
<bluesabre> yup, good times :D
<knome> yep
<knome> better times when you don't need them any more!
<bluesabre> indeed!
<knome> imagine; that bug could be fixed in the next 5 minutes if you had upload rights
<knome> WOOT!
<elfy> :)
<knome> (less work too, no need for debdiffs, just go ahead and change the file contents and upload)
<bluesabre> nice and painless
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> ochosi: link me to the gmb bug?
<bluesabre> Unit193, you around?
<Unit193> bluesabre: No.
<bluesabre> darn
<bluesabre> guess I'll try again later
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> I'm a square.
<bluesabre> no pi for you
<Unit193> :(
<bluesabre> I'm trying to update the debian folder in x-d-s, not quite sure how to fix this
<bluesabre> W: xubuntu-default-settings source: syntax-error-in-dep5-copyright line 16: Continuation line outside a paragraph.
<bluesabre> in relation to this changelog file: http://dpaste.com/1393470/
<bluesabre> s/changelog/copyright
<Unit193> Yep, you need a period at 15, 20, and 24
<bluesabre> ah
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-24
<bluesabre> thanks!
<Unit193> Who holds it for 2013 anyway?
<Unit193> Sure.
<bluesabre> good question
<bluesabre> do you think just adding xubuntu developers for 2013 would be sufficient?
<bluesabre> or should I put my own name?
<Unit193> I don't really know how the team likes to assign it, thinking XPL, dev or something.  Might be you.
<Unit193> Thinking XPL is right though.
<bluesabre> ok, I'll do that
<Unit193> All set to fire?
<bluesabre> I used myself, can change if needed
<bluesabre> how does this look?
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes
<bluesabre> even made sure it was lintian clean :)
<Unit193> Heh, you put it in the wrong order, newer up at the top. :P
<bluesabre> I thought so
<bluesabre> but the order was funky already
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> how's the rest?
<Unit193> I didn't see anything to complain about. :P
<bluesabre> wowza!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> micahg, mr_pouit, knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes/+merge/187127
<micahg> bluesabre: ok, will try to upload tonight
<bluesabre> micahg, cool, thanks!
<bluesabre> micahg: if you don't get a chance to do the upload, if you can get the merge in, I can add the upload to the sponsorship queue
<micahg> ok
<bluesabre> fwiw, we also have one other merge that might be good to pull in at the same time: https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/keyboard-shortcuts/+merge/182352
<bluesabre> (sorry for all the additional work)
<micahg> hrm, I might not get it up there tonight, very tired
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> mr_pouit, if you happen to be around, would you mind merging these two branches in?
<elfy> b2 got rebuilt ... 'looks' like we lost all the tests 
<knome> heh
<knome> well, that happens :)
<elfy> twice as it happens ;)
<knome> well anyway, we tested most of the images without problems before
<knome> or at least critical problems
<elfy> yep
<knome> so it should be relatively good testing again
<knome> i can spin up a test or two today as wll
<knome> *well
<knome> once i stop fighting with presses
<elfy> :)
<knome> /printers
<knome> whatever is the correct enligsh word for that
<elfy> we got 10/5 (mandatory), 2/1(run once)  for 64bit and 9/5 2/1 for 32bit so I'm happy at least with that
<elfy> printers :)
<knome> yeah
<knome> mhm
<elfy> twice as much as for b1
<elfy> I'd always be happy with more though as well :)
<knome> sure
<astraljava> I only had time for one test, life's too busy atm. =/
<astraljava> ...for thinking. Of course the machine could have had more occasions, but I forget to initiate when doing other stuff.
<knome> ;)
<knome> no problem, any test helps.
<ochosi> bluesabre: link to the gmb-bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1223808
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,In progress]
<ochosi> bluesabre: so the patch is two-fold: (1) add a single line to our gmbrc.default file, (2) pull the latest version of albuminfo.pm from gmb-upstream git (https://github.com/squentin/gmusicbrowser/blob/master/plugins/albuminfo.pm)
<ochosi> so those missing icons, how do they affect our icon-theme or me exactly?
<ochosi> knome: ^
<knome> ochosi, i don't know; do they?
<knome> also, did you see the duplicate
<ochosi> if an app doesn't ship it's own icon, that's kinda not an icon-theme issue for us...
<ochosi> that should be a bug in the app or in the packaging
<ochosi> no, i didn't check the duplicate
<knome> well do check it
<ochosi> also the reporter said it's fixed in 13.10
<ochosi> so why bother?
<knome> aha
<knome> then don't
<knome> i didn't catch that
<ochosi> or at least the reporter of the duplicate said that
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> "I can confirm that, gufw's icon shows up in the settings manager on xubuntu 13.10"
<knome> oki
<knome> so,
<knome> can we "guess" a good symlink for the other app?
<knome> some generic icon or sth
<knome> or do you rather not to that
<ochosi> not sure what the issue really is with gtkorphan
<ochosi> somehow that bugreport seems to focus on gufw
<ochosi> i'd have to install and test it myself to be able to judge
<knome> i assume just missing icon
<brainwash_> did my message get lost?
<knome> which one?
<knome> (probably yes)
<brainwash_> it was not about missing icons, it was about the icon path + name specified in the .desktop file, adding the image extension would hide the icon in the settings manager
<brainwash_> (this one)
<knome> but that was about gufw
<brainwash_> Icon=gufw
<brainwash_> no more file extension
<brainwash> looks like it got removed by the package maintainer
<knome> Icon=@DATADIR@/pixmaps/gtkorphan.png for gtkorphan
<ochosi> yup, that's not that good i suppose
<ochosi> it should simply be gtkorphan
<ochosi> so nothing we can do in our icon-theme about it
<knome> yep, we should mark that bug invalid for us and retarget for gtkorphan
<knome> which seems to be in the same version since quantal
<knome> (and even then, it looks like it's just a new ubuntu version, not really a new version of the app)
<brainwash> but still, why won't the icon show up if you add the file extension?
<knome> 0.4.4-1 in lucid, 0.4.4-1.1 in saucy
<knome> brainwash, i suppose because you shouldn't guess the file extension
<knome> that can be basically anything; practically it's usually png or svg
<brainwash> mmh, still strange, the xfce4 app menu does not care about it, the settings manager however does
<brainwash> gufw's .desktop file even contains "X-GNOME-Settings-Panel=gufw.png"
<brainwash> but this is an issue, that even I don't care much about :D
<knome> that's not an issue... if gnome-settings-panel needs that specific thing, fine
<knome> not our problem ;)
<knome> if the icon works everywhere else without .png, then good
<knome> i suppose that's how it's supposed to work
<brainwash> got another one, driconf is affected too
<brainwash> Icon=/usr/share/driconf/driconf-icon.png
<knome> brainwash, if you could please file a bug against the driconf package in ubuntu
<brainwash> I'll add it to the list of affected packages
<knome> that works as well
<knome> though we should probably then rather file a new bug
<knome> this is getting messy, the original bug was something else
<knome> actually not
<knome> but the original bug is mostly about gufw
<brainwash> oh, that bug report.. :D
<brainwash> expect more packages to be affected
<knome> mh
<knome> so yeah, would probably be better to file a new bug
<knome> with a title of "Icon name is incorrectly defined in the .desktop file"
<knome> or sth
<knome> then just link all packages affected
<brainwash> oh man, confusing stuff
<knome> heh
<knome> want me to file the bug, then you can fill the details?
<brainwash> so the driconf package has not been touched since years too
<knome> yep
<brainwash> if you like to, go ahead and file the report
<brainwash> I'll add the missing details
<knome> ok, just a sec
<brainwash> afk for some minutes
<knome> brainwash, bug 1229635
<ubottu> bug 1229635 in gtkorphan (Ubuntu) "Icon name is incorrectly defined in the .desktop file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229635
<knome> i added driconf as well.
<brainwash> great, thanks :)
<brainwash> is bug 1061037 still around in saucy?
<ubottu> bug 1061037 in gdk-pixbuf (Ubuntu) "Using .xpm icons on desktop may draw huge icon" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061037
<knome> i would imagine so
<bluesabre> ochosi, you there?
<ochosi> bluesabre: i am
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> though I don't think my question is actually for you now that I think about it
<knome> ok, get stuff fixed
<knome> i'm off for a walk.
<bluesabre> seeya knome
<knome> bluesabre, nor me? ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> good. ->
<bluesabre> ochosi, micahg, mr_pouit: added a debdiff here, is that the acceptable way to apply our own changes to source?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1223808
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,In progress]
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre  (i wouldn't know whether the debdiff is good though...)
<bluesabre> yeah, just adding you to the alert list
<ochosi> it does look ok though
<olbi> do you have strange bug, in all isos, daily and beta 1 there isn't sound in virtualbox?
<knome> we're testing beta 2 now. can you check if you're able to reproduce there and file a bug if so
<olbi> i couldn't find beta 2 isos, or it is daily?
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/303/builds
<olbi> thx knome
<jjfrv8> elfy, are you saying you only have the numbers from yesterday's testing but not the results?
<knome> jjfrv8, basically yes, the new images should be tested again
<jjfrv8> Okay. I got a critical on both live sessions: #1229467. Just did the 64 again today and same thing.
<jjfrv8> I also failed the post installation tests for bug 1185396 and bug 1098323.
<ubottu> bug 1185396 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_user_profiles_get_for_user()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1185396
<ubottu> bug 1098323 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole failes to play DVD" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1098323
<jjfrv8> won't have time to do more retesting until tonight.
<jjfrv8> bbl
<knome> blergh
<knome> :)
<knome> i'm off soon
<knome> anything you need me for?
<knome> i guess that's a no
<knome> see you later :)
<olbi> ok, i'm off now, see you later :)
<GridCube> bye
<elfy> jjfrv8: no - I can see the results as well, but retests when people can will be good
<ochosi> can someone here please link me to the abiword ruler bug in launchpad? (can't seem to find it atm)
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lubuntu-meta/+bug/1031137
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1031137 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Abiword has strange black color" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> thanks elfy
<elfy> :)
<GridCube> what does "package test" means?
<bluesabre> in what reference?
<elfy> GridCube: there are iso tests at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/270/builds
<elfy> and package tests at http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/300/builds
<GridCube> D:
<GridCube> i never knew of that
<elfy> it's quite new
<GridCube> thats rather hidden, it should be in the same page as the iso test as part of your log of the test
<elfy> did you miss me going on and on and on and on and on about manual tests? 
<GridCube> yes
<elfy> good lord 
<elfy> Next time I do dev list mails I will cc you :p
<elfy> s/dev list QA mail
<bluesabre> :)
<GridCube> manual partitioning i386 
<GridCube> or amd64, thats not done yet so that one
<elfy> just zsynced them both - shall do another bunch of them too 
 * bluesabre will hopefully get a chance to do some testing tonight
<elfy> results look better this time than last time
 * elfy did 15 yesterday 
<bluesabre> nice
<elfy> they archived the damned tests after I did a bunch 
<bluesabre> :D
<elfy> then they did it AGAIN when I was asleep :|
<bluesabre> never be proactive, only do things right at deadline
<bluesabre> ;)
<elfy> you've noticed how I report bugs ... 
<elfy> d'ya think I should ... 
<GridCube> http://i.imgur.com/2KVZJic.png
<GridCube> uh oh!
<GridCube> D:
<elfy> seen that as a bug somewhere I think 
<elfy> is that 32bit? 
<bluesabre> yup, "here's a huge bug that you will have no idea how to fix!"
<bluesabre> :D
<GridCube> no, 64
<bluesabre> yiiiiikes
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1229432
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1229432 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Partitioning error when doing normal install after encrypted lvm install" [Undecided,New]
<GridCube> i had a 8gb vbox drive, 1gb swap 7gb ext4, deleted all those, created 3 partitions, 2,5gb gb ext4 (set it to /home)5gb ext4 (set to /) and 512mb for swap
<ochosi> phew, for a second there i thought it would be a visual ubiquity bug...
<elfy> GridCube: just about to boot the 64bit on a laptop
<GridCube> there was no lvm involved
<elfy> yea
<GridCube> should i hit ignore and continue or flag it as fail?
<elfy> GridCube: I have seen that one myself - and I'd confused the installer 
<GridCube> or should i try to replicate?
<elfy> dbl clk in the icon - didn't start - right clicked - execute - then both had started - didn't notice till I aborted the top one 
<elfy> try and replicate 
<GridCube> ok
<elfy> I'll be a the same point in a minute or two
<brainwash> I encountered several partitioning errors while trying to install the daily image 2 days ago.
<elfy> GridCube: which install was that? manual? 
<brainwash> on top of that, the password prompt for full disk encryption during boot simply did not work
<elfy> luckily that won't fail one of our tests then :)
<GridCube> manual
<GridCube> it did not replicated itself
<brainwash> did anyone test FDE?
<GridCube> not knowing what that is, no
<brainwash> full disk encryption
<elfy> no
<GridCube> ah, no
<elfy> brainwash: or they might have but it's not one of our tests - so we'd not have results 
<brainwash> well, it's not xubuntu related I would assume
<brainwash> I see, maybe I can find a bug report addressing this issue
<elfy> maybe - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects
<elfy> if I can't find it after a while I report it and hope someone can find the dupe :)
<elfy> GridCube: I've gone marching straight past that error point 
<GridCube> me too in the retry
<Unit193> GridCube: When I got that I ignored and it seemed fine. :P
<GridCube> ok
<elfy> GridCube: maybe comment on that bug
<GridCube> next time ill do that
<GridCube> elfy, ok :)
<elfy> or mark the bug on the iso tracker and comment there - it'll get added to the bug 
<brainwash> ouch, this one again - bug 1229486
<ubottu> bug 1229486 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Lock screen before sleep doesn't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229486
<elfy> confirmed that as well 
<elfy> GridCube: got the same thing as you did
<GridCube> the partition error?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> reporting it 
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> sorry i got actual "i get paid to do" work
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I meant I'm reporting it in anway :)
<GridCube> meta-d doesnt open thunar anymore?
<brainwash> wasn't it f?
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> right
<brainwash> (f)ile manager
<brainwash> :)
<GridCube> :/ why did i though it was d?
<GridCube> maybe directory?
<Unit193> "Where's my (d)ang files!?" ?
<elfy> had the same bug again - both times for entire disk install - both times going from one arch to another
<GridCube> mmm
<GridCube> the packages test is very time consuming
<GridCube> elfy, where did you reported it so i can tag
<elfy> #1220165 
<elfy> GridCube: don't worry - I'll add it to your test result
<elfy> that'll trigger it to the bug report anyway
<GridCube> going to suspencion never works on virtual machines right?
<elfy> not sure - don't think so 
<GridCube> mmm because it did nothing when i tried it but i dont think that works
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> sorry - I wasn't clear, I meant I don't think it works :)
<GridCube> probably i need the virtual box addons
<_ToZ> Yesterday I completed 3 tests on the new beta (live session, full disk install, post-install), created some bug reports (1229478 & 1229486), and entered the info in the QA tracker. Today I can't find any reference to these tests. Where might they have gone?
<elfy> _ToZ: the iso's got respun and thus all the tests we did got archived 
<elfy> hang on and I'll get it for you
<_ToZ> Hi elfy. Does this mean I have to redo them?
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/303/history
<elfy> but if you've got not filters I'd filter to xubuntu only first
<_ToZ> ah yes, there they are. Are they still valid then?
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/303/builds/54214/testcases/1434/results
<elfy> is one of your's 
<elfy> not really - I zsynced to the new iso and it grabbed 15%
<elfy> so not valid
<_ToZ> So I need to redo them?
<elfy> up to you - I've ended up doing 25 of them since yesterday morning - it got respun twice 
<_ToZ> ok thanks
<elfy> not sure which tests you did - if you still have the install I'd imagine an update/upgrade of that would put you in the same state
<elfy> I'm fairly relaxed about it tbh - I've grabbed the bugs people reported that subsequently got archived
<elfy> up to a short while ago across all the b2 tests people did we got 59 results
<_ToZ> One other thing I noticed that I don't know if its a bug or a change. I know there are issues with sound-indicator. Killing and restarting it as per the bug report brings it back, but there is no entry for gmusicbrowser there any more. Was this a design change, or should I report it as a bug?
<elfy> thought I'd seen that - but there's been talk in here about gmb so I might be confused - report it for the moment 
<_ToZ> Think I'll grab the new respin and give it a whirl and double-check it then.
<elfy> ok - you zsync them?
<_ToZ> no, I'm old school. Download and burn.
<elfy> assuming you still have the old one :)
<elfy> zsync will just download the difference between the 2 
<_ToZ> ok thanks
<pleia2> for what it's worth, I wouldn't go as far as to say earlier ones "aren't valid" - it's awesome to do tests at any time and report bugs, just for the beta specifically there is more work to do with respun images :)
<elfy> I'm just copying the XPL :)
<elfy> but I'm really happy with the testing that got done for B2 :)
<elfy> everything got covered 
<knome> yep
<elfy> tbh - I've been happy with most of everything during the cycle 
<knome> me too
<elfy> knome: if we've got a bunch of desktop tests by the morning I'll mark it ready and mail the list
<knome> :)
<knome> no need to do that
<knome> i mean, let's wait until the testing is ending on thusrday
<knome> let people run more tests
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> not sure I'll remember on thursday morning - back to work then 
<knome> i can do that
<knome> we need to prepare the release notes as well
<elfy> can we look at that tomorrow then? I''ll be about most PM/evening
<knome> that would work for me
<knome> or maybe, say until 12UTC :)
<knome> or a bit later
<knome> (at least)
<elfy> ok-ish - working in the morning/early afternoon - I'll ping you when I'm here perhaps
<knome> sounds like a plan
<elfy> ok
<knome> i'm off watching a movie
<knome> hf
<elfy> night
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-25
<ochosi> has anyone else noticed that appfinder seems to open really slowly in 13.10?
<ochosi> (i'm just wondering whether it has to do with some dev packages i use atm or whether it's a general 13.10 issue)
<olbi> hi guys
<olbi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1230123
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1230123 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed after installing software" [Undecided,New]
<olbi> changed package :P
<elfy> "What could it be?" usc is rubbish? :)
<elfy> USC should be a link to synaptic :p
<elfy> symlink ... 
<elfy> olbi: there's a pretty good chance that it's a dupe 
<olbi> :P
<ali1234> ochosi: what is appfinder?
<ochosi> ali1234: xfce4-appfinder can be used as an applauncher
<ochosi> an advanced xfrun4
<ali1234> it opens instantly for me when i run it from the terminal
<ochosi> (in fact the functionality of xfrun4 was merged into appfinder)
<ochosi> m, ok, i was afraid it would be something in my installation
<ali1234> that would make a nice start menu
<elfy> are there problems with it?
<ochosi> elfy: it starts with a 8sec delay here
<elfy> immediate here
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, there were plans for making that a start-menu
<ochosi> ali1234: actually whisker-menu does that job now
<ali1234> never heard of that either
<ali1234> i probably wouldn't use these things anyway
<ochosi> me neither, but it could be useful for the average user
<elfy> bbl
<andrzejr> ali1234, a while ago I tried converting/extending appfinder into start menu
<andrzejr> it failed because you (apparently) cannot have an embedded object in a menu
<andrzejr> other solution would be to modify appfinder internals to popup a menu and communicate with a panel plugin via dbus - but that was a too big change to be accepted
<andrzejr> gtg
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1048805
<ubottu> bug 1048805 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "xfrun4 launches very slowly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048805
<ochosi> right, that looks a bit like it
<ochosi> got to check what exactly in the session changed
<brainwash> kinda an old bug.. I did not expect it to be still around
<brainwash> maybe you have applied the workaround before, but it got reverted by upgrading to 13.10
<ochosi> no, never applied any workaround
<ochosi> the workaround is only to modify the keyboard-shortcut and that wouldn't be touched on upgrading
<brainwash> I'll test it on my test system later
<brainwash> was thinking about the .desktop file
<ochosi> ah, hm
<ochosi> well i'll apply that workaround now, because i really wanna use appfinder :)
<brainwash> and it did work without delay in 13.04?
<ochosi> yeah, iirc it even worked in 13.10 without a delay until shortly
<brainwash> wow, that's odd
<ochosi> indeed
<brainwash_> it opens instantly here
<brainwash_> even without the workaround
<ochosi> thanks for checking brainwash 
<knome> ochosi, was there a bug for the slow logout?
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release
<ochosi> yes, one sec
<brainwash> bug 1227212
<ubottu> bug 1227212 in upstart "Session logout takes too long" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227212
<brainwash> :D
<knome> feel free to add anything you think is appropriate to that pad
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/1227212
<ochosi> arr
<ochosi> too slow
<ochosi> i guess i should file a bug against me now...
<brainwash> still no comment from the upstart author :/
<brainwash> should this one also get added to the list bug 1226509 ?
<ubottu> bug 1226509 in systemd (Ubuntu) "lightdm_get_can_restart returns false in Ubuntu Saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226509
<ochosi> yeah, i'd say so
<ochosi> no reply from robert on that one yet
<brainwash> btw I added systemd to the list of affected packages, still wondering why the rules for reboot and shutdown differ
<knome> what's the user-facing bug description on that?
<ochosi> no restart-option in the greeter
<ochosi> g2g, prolly bbl
<knome> elfy, i set up http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release, feel free to extend as you see fit :9
<knome> elfy, actually, i need to get out now, but see the pad; that should be a good start, and we can work on it together later
<OvenWerks> ochosi: appfinder took two seconds the fist time and maybe 1/4 second the next few times
<elfy> back - later than anticipated :|
<elfy> knome: added some to the pad
<brainwash> the printer applet does not show up in the panel?
<brainwash> same for update notifier
<ochosi> those two should end up in the indicator-plugin
<elfy> hi brainwash ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<brainwash> hi elfy 
<brainwash> ochosi: so they should work?
<ochosi> dunno, i've disabled update-notifications and i don't have a printer to test...
<elfy> is update notifier actaully working at all? 
<ochosi> but yeah, in 13.04 they're shown as indicators
<ochosi> i'm not quite sure these have fallback-trayicons
<elfy> I've not seen it at all 
<ochosi> well, that's fun then
<elfy> but update manager stopped for ages as well - that's back lately, notifier is apparently running
<brainwash> I needed to print some pages (first time since saucy upgrade) and the printer indicator didn't show up.. do I change the application and hit <print> again.. went to the printer and now I got to tons of printed pages
<ochosi> :]
<ochosi> well that clearly sucks
<elfy> default icon set is darker? 
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> k - set it to that for the moment then
<brainwash> python /usr/share/system-config-printer/applet.py
<elfy> brb
<brainwash> so it's likely that these indicators have been converted to gtk3 ones too, or?
<ochosi> no, afaik they didn't use separate indicator-plugins, but indicator-application-gtk2
<ochosi> it's possible that they broke support for the gtk2 version
<elfy> so - update manager starts with available updates - nothing in indicator panel though
<ochosi> hm
<elfy> seem to have an odd 'indicator sized blank' at the end of the indicator panel 
<ochosi> did you deactivate the notifications maybe?
<ochosi> can you click that blank?
<elfy> not that I know off - I leave notifications on - use it for other things - though I have moved it 
<ochosi> so wait, to sum this up: the only indicator that's still working with gtk2 is the network-manager?
<elfy> no - not clickable - rather can right click and get ind panel menu
<elfy> ochosi: not sure - I've got the ones I did from git here
<elfy> just remembered that ... 
<ochosi> so you're using gtk3?
<elfy> yea
<elfy> sorry - for the confusion
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> what about you brainwash ?
<ochosi> gtk2 or gtk3?
<brainwash> default saucy one
<ochosi> (maybe the updates-notifications are generally broken, wouldn't surprise me this cycle)
<brainwash> elfy: and the printer applet? also hidden?
<elfy> no printer to check with
<brainwash> print to pdf
<brainwash> via cups
<elfy> no applet - but this is gtk3
<elfy> I'll boot a vm from the b2 iso
<brainwash> and saucy broke my preferred print size (or maybe I messed up at some point), A4 is cut of on top/bottom
<elfy> nothing showing there
<ochosi> brainwash: it's probably set to US Letter
<brainwash> maybe I should also install gnome or unity
<brainwash> but actually, aren't you running unity in one of your various vms?
<elfy> who?
<brainwash> you
<ochosi> :)
<brainwash> the testing guy :P
<elfy> no - I did have one then got rid of it ;)
<ochosi> i'm always tempted to give gnome3 another shot for realz
 * ochosi hides
<brainwash> yea, gnome 3.10 looks really promising
<elfy> I can set one up easily enough
<elfy> depends if this has been fixed or not :p "ubiquity needs to be updated for the new indicators"
<xnox> elfy: hm?
<brainwash> isn't ubiquity the installer?
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> anyway - I'll download it and install it I guess
<ochosi> what does that mean though?
<elfy> no idea ochosi 
<ochosi> ubiquity doesn't really use the indicators afaik
<ochosi> xnox: ^ ?
<ali1234> ubiquity is just the install wizard
 * xnox just asked elfy what is meant by "to be updated for the new indicators"?!
<elfy> title of a bug
<xnox> elfy: bug 1204290 ?
<ubottu> bug 1204290 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity needs to be updated for the new indicators" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204290
<xnox> note the fix released.
<ali1234> ah... does it put something into the indicator panel?
<elfy> brainwash: ok - it's installing now 
<ali1234> like a progress indicator or something?
<ali1234> hmm it seems to have it's own indicator container
<brainwash> the initial question: why don't the update notifier and printer applet show up in the panel?
<ali1234> because you have no printer configured and because xubuntu doesn't install update-notifier by default
<ali1234> assuming you are on gtk3/indicator-ng
<brainwash> gtk2
<ali1234> there is no gtk2 version of printer indicator
<brainwash> yes, that makes sense
<ali1234> i'm not sure about update notifier actually
<ali1234> it's installed here but it never shows up
<elfy> "update-notifier is already the newest version"
<brainwash> it should be installed by default
<ali1234> it even says it is running
<elfy> ** (update-notifier:2724): WARNING **: already running?
<brainwash> because of some dependency
<elfy> ochosi: between the mail indicator and the clementine icon http://imagebin.org/271894
<ali1234> that looks like keyboard indicator
<brainwash> is there already a website (or template) with the known issues in 13.10
<brainwash> like the missing message indicator in previous releases
<ochosi> not sure, that kinda stuff usually goes into the release-notes
<ochosi> currently those are being compiled here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release
<ochosi> quite the list of known issues already..
<ochosi> and a few inconvenient ones, i may add
<brainwash> the pad webiste requires u1?
<elfy> yep
<elfy> or at least the ubuntu one does
<Unit193> (It's why I went for another one, kept logging me out. :P )
<elfy> brainwash: so after all that hassle ... no print indicator that I Can see in ubuntu
<brainwash> elfy: did you open the printer queue? I'm not sure what could trigger the applet, printing to pdf/.. does not count as print job
<elfy> well I've got nothing to print to
<brainwash> and which panel actually, gtk2/gtk3 or the unity one?
<elfy> unity I suppose - it's 2 years since I looked at ubuntu
<brainwash> ah screw this, this indicator/applet mess is slowly driving me mad :D
<elfy> looking at what ubuntu has is probably not the best method of retaining sanity
<elfy> ochosi: I added 6 of those bugs to the pad - knome only had 3 on it 
<ochosi> elfy: what are you implying?
<Unit193> ISOs being rebuilt?  There was a new ubiquity upload, right?
<elfy> ochosi: not implying anything at all - just commenting is all :)
<ochosi> ah ok :)
<elfy> I'd dragged all the bugs reported on b2 to a list here - there were 16 
<elfy> I added the more common or ones I thought people should be aware of :)
<elfy> Unit193: no idea 
<elfy> probably :p
<ochosi> well feel free to add all of them to the notes (imo), we can then decide what gets into the release-notes
<elfy> just doing it now actually :)
<ochosi> cool
<elfy> all done :)
<ochosi> hm, human-readable descriptions would be very nice though
<elfy> dude - I'm trying to cook dinner too :p
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> sure, no problem
<elfy> bowl of cornflakes at this rate lol 
<ochosi> :D
<brainwash> so after upgrading my launchpad account to a fancy u1 one, I get this here:
<brainwash> "Authorization is required to access http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release"
<Unit193> brainwash: Yep, you need to be added to the etherpad group, pleia2 has done that for people in the past.
<pleia2> brainwash: what's your launchpad id?
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch
<pleia2> done
<brainwash> pleia2: great, thanks :)
<elfy> as of by magic ... 
<elfy> ochosi: is that better :)
<ochosi> cool, thanks elfy 
<elfy> welcome 
<Unit193> Weren't we going to switch to xfce4-datetime-plugin at one point?
<Unit193> [17:50:45] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Saucy Beta 2] has been updated (20130925.1)
<Unit193> [17:50:49] queuebot:#ubuntu-release: Builds: Xubuntu Desktop i386 [Saucy Beta 2] has been updated (20130925.1)
<Unit193> Was right! ;P
<bluesabre> Unit193: I think we were using xfce4-datetime-plugin at one point, then went back to the other one
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-26
<GridCube> knome, ping
<Unit193> Bleh.
<GridCube> bleh?
<GridCube> D: 
<Unit193> Yeah, blues says we did switch to xfce4-datetime-plugin, but then back to orage. :/
<elfy> knome: so we've got 3 tests done on the b2 again since it was respun - I'm at work till ~17:00
<Noskcaj> elfy, Let me know if there's any bugs that need confirming. There's not much i can do other than that
<elfy> bugs we saw are all listed on http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release
<elfy> Noskcaj: did you catch that last message from me
<Noskcaj> no
<elfy> bugs we saw are all listed on http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release
<Noskcaj> ok, thanks. I'll see if that page will load
<elfy> I can mail it to you if you want
<ochosi> brainwash: quick update, robert_ancell suggested digging indicator-session for bug #1226509
<ubottu> bug 1226509 in systemd (Ubuntu) "lightdm_get_can_restart returns false in Ubuntu Saucy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226509
<brainwash> ochosi: but the strange policy difference will remain
<ochosi> indeed
<brainwash> and that is the core issue
<brainwash> why is it different?
<ochosi> ask the polkit guys (i guess)
<brainwash> why is there a difference between reboot and poweroff
<ochosi> robert also didn't know an answer
<brainwash> hmpf
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> indicator-session is not installed by default, so it would need to be added to xubuntu
<ochosi> no, the idea is to investigate why it allows reboot
<ochosi> see what it does differently
<brainwash> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/src/login/org.freedesktop.login1.policy.in
<brainwash> no change in upstream
<brainwash> or maybe something else is wrong here, why does the multiple-sessions rule apply after logging out completely?
<brainwash> s/rule/policy/
<ochosi> not sure either
<ochosi> so far the greeter was only using lightdm's interface to check this kind of stuff
<ochosi> so we never really dealt with it
<brainwash> looks like a real expert is needed here
<brainwash> for this systemd/logind issue
<ochosi> yeah, seems like it
<bluesabre> good luck finding one of those
<brainwash_> file a bug report upstream?
<brainwash_> file a bug report upstream?
<brainwash_> and ask about the different policy rules and why logind thinks that multiple sessions are running
<ochosi> i guess asking people who use the greeter on a non-ubuntu distro with systemd could help
<bluesabre> soooo... Corsac?
<ochosi> i was actually thinking about cavalier
<ochosi> not sure debian uses systemd atm
<ochosi> and morning bluesabre 
<ochosi> congrats on yet another sponsored upload
<knome> g'day
<knome> so we were respun for a new ubiquity
<knome> and no need to lose our sleep for getting all the tests in again
<bluesabre> ochosi: oh, something got uploaded?
<ochosi> bluesabre: catfish 0.8.2
<bluesabre> woop!
<brainwash> ochosi: maybe pitti could help us with logind
<bluesabre> ochosi: have you been getting update notifications in saucy?
<ochosi> possible, dunno
<ochosi> you mean as an indicator?
<bluesabre> as in anything outside of manually checking for updates
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> brainwash: feel free to get in touch with him!
<ochosi> brainwash: also: i'm considering to revamp a few style elements of the greeter, which is why the patch for the context-menu is still only local
<bluesabre> I'm not sure the update manager actually works by itself anymore once they got rid of the auto-launch key
<ochosi> hm, no clue tbh
<ochosi> but i have to admit i always disable that
<ochosi> because i hate the update-checking process spontaneously eating up my cpu
<ochosi> so maybe it's also a good thing ;)
<bluesabre> except, you know, for security updates :D
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> anyway, gotta go, bbl
<bluesabre> seeya
<brainwash> but an autostart entry still exists, doesn't it?
<bluesabre> yeah, it does
<bluesabre> I wonder what the update frequency is
<brainwash> ochosi: do you "know" him? I don't
<brainwash> bug 947008
<ubottu> bug 947008 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier inappropriately uses an indicator menu if xubuntu-desktop is installed" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947008
<brainwash> ochosi: regarding the greeter revamp, will (or can) it be included before final release?
<brainwash> ochosi: there is a black border in the import dialog of seahorse, maybe it's related to the abiword black border?
<knome> brainwash, what revamp?
<brainwash> knome: just minor changes -> bug 1227735
<ubottu> bug 1227735 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "lightdm-gtk-greeter: disable/fix password input field context menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227735
<knome> aha
<knome> maybe.
<knome> linked it to the development blueprint
<knome> and fixed statuses
<elfy> afternoon
<knome> hey elf
<knome> y
<elfy> for a short while
<knome> elfy, the respin was due to a new ubiquity upload
<knome> elfy, no worries re: getting all images tested again
<elfy> yea - sort of got that in the end
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I wanted to do one to see if I got that odd kernel message
<knome> i've got that with some images sometimes, but ignoring has always worked
<brainwash> odd kernel message?
<elfy> yep - same
<elfy> I say - same - but I'd never seen it prior to saucy
<brainwash> most of them are odd.. and strange.. and weird :)
<knome> brainwash, bug 1220165
<ubottu> bug 1220165 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Error reading xfs partitions" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1220165
<elfy> knome: shall I mark them ready then
<knome> elfy, sure
<elfy> done then
<knome> that's definitely a common bug though
<knome> so we don't have to worry about linking to that, it should be mentioned in the common infra notes, and if not, then it's probably not critical enough
<elfy> and lots of different bugs it should be - mine was not xfs partitions 
<knome> i would imagine it's a single bug
<elfy> yep - but people keep reporting against specific things like xfs/lvm 
<elfy> is what I meant 
<knome> yep
<elfy> so - beta 2 testing - there were 83 test results recorded for us - I think that is a win \o/ 
<knome> yep, definitely
<knome> now let's double that for RC ;)
<knome> or at least hit 100
<knome> anyway, i'm off
<knome> see you later :)
<elfy> I has an idea - but not enough time to go over it now - we've got some time until then
<knome> (release notes are prepared in the wiki, release announcement in the website, just needs publishing)
<knome> ->
<elfy> get 30 minutes for lunch 
<elfy> officially 
<knome> heh
<knome> bon appetit
<elfy> never eat until the evening - just drink gallons of tea
<brainwash> ah dammit, nobody cares about my logind question in #ubuntu-devel
<elfy> no-one cares or no-one has answered yet ... 
<brainwash> both, maybe I should address the question to someone directly
<brainwash> ochosi: wait, I can only reproduce the black border in the import dialog of seahorse on one machine (graybird-git)
<ochosi> brainwash: what black border do you mean?
<ochosi> brainwash: and no, i don't "know" pitti either
<brainwash> ochosi: http://oi41.tinypic.com/21owiyp.jpg
<ochosi> brainwash: are you using the overlay-scrollbars?
<brainwash> yes
<ochosi> btw, that doesnt look like a standard widget to me
<ochosi> well overlay-scrollbars only work with a patch that is not in git, but only in the ubuntu package (for obvious reasons)
<ochosi> so that bugreport would be marked as invalid
<brainwash> ok, thanks for clarifying
<ochosi> no problem
<ochosi> the border-lines in the sidebar are a bit ooto as well
<brainwash> so it's not related to abiword
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> so ppl on archlinux have the same issue with systemd and the greeter
<brainwash> that's great :D
<ochosi> yeah...
<brainwash> do you want to file a bug report upstream?
<brainwash> or do you consider switching to indicator-session anyway?
<ochosi> nah, depending on indicators sucks because the greeter should also be used outside of ubuntuland
<ochosi> theoretically we could try to work around the issue currently in xubuntu by using indicator-session
<ochosi> but it would probably need a patch to work properly
<brainwash> yea, we need a working solution for 13.10
<brainwash> requesting a change of the affected policy rule might take some time
<brainwash> and backporting the changes to systemd 204
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i know, that's why i wanted to ask whether a workaround in the greeter would be acceptable
<ochosi> but if robert_ancell doesn't know i don't know whom to ask
<brainwash> on top of that, it's not clear who maintains the ubuntu systemd packages
<ochosi> :/
<brainwash> why didn't I think of this earlier... #systemd
<brainwash> the right channel for our question
<PsynoKhi0> Hi, I'm trying to install 13.10 beta 1 on a laptop with a broadcom wireless card, BCM4318, ubiquity gets stuck at "configuring bcmwl-kernel-source"
<ochosi> PsynoKhi0: you can get support in #xubuntu, this is the development channel
<knome> ochosi, he was pointed here from there :P
<ochosi> oh, i see you got sent here
<ochosi> well, i can't help anyway ;)
<knome> PsynoKhi0, i suppose first download the daily (since you're running a non-stable version anyway), and if it persists, ask #ubuntu+1 and if they can't help, file a bug
<PsynoKhi0> knome: will do
<knome> PsynoKhi0, thanks
<knome> (official beta 2 images should be out todya)
<knome> *today
<PsynoKhi0> hmm ok
<knome> basically, the last daily image is the beta 2 image, unless it gets respun, which is unlikely but always possible
<skellat> I'm not sure where to go with LP Bug #1231219
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1231219 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Red circle with line where notification icon appears on panel" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231219
<knome> you can't confirm it?
<skellat> Haven't got a VM set up yet
<knome> hmm, that's a missing icon -icon
<skellat> When something like that appears, usually it means you need to mouse over and click for more info
<knome> yep, we should know what indicator it is
<skellat> I was out handling firewood at The Farm yesterday 
<knome> wondering if they are using the default icon theme
<skellat> knome: Without a tooltip or anything showing...what was showing could be any of a number of possible indicators
<knome> yep.
<knome> commented. unless he gives more information, we can pretty safely dismiss.
<skellat> That's why I flagged it incomplete
<knome> yep
<skellat> Are we ready to mark off the ISOs as ready?
<knome> they are marked as ready
<pleia2> happy beta 2 day
<knome> yay
<knome> it is happy, now that pleia2 is here
<skellat> I'm still trying to read through backlogs
<skellat> What's our final count on "Known Issues"?
<pleia2> hah
<knome> i linked four
<pleia2> our beta2 wiki page is lovely
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta2/Xubuntu
<knome> there are obviously more bugs in the xubuntu product
 * knome bows
<skellat> And it isn't even necessarily software we directly control either
<skellat> That takes skills
<skellat> :-)
 * skellat heads to the kitchen
<knome> you have multiple heads?
<knome> what are you going to cook with them?
<knome> :P
<GridCube> heads, he is cooking heads
<GridCube> knome, got some minutes?
<knome> yup.
<knome> cooking heads and tails..
<GridCube> can we see the desktop of the week issue? :)
<knome> pleia2, have some minutes?
<knome> let me open up the admin interface for xubuntu.org
<knome> bah, permission problems.
<GridCube> yes
<knome> no, i mean file access
<knome> who shall kick IS this time?
<GridCube> P: i dunno
<knome> pleia2, RT #23091
<knome> what else?
<elfy> evening all
<GridCube> hi
<GridCube> knome, so we can go over the things?
<knome> GridCube, sure
<GridCube> ok, so i got a few images, mine, unit193, and some others that dont have problems, or shouldnt have
<knome> yup
<knome> we should prepare the page on xubuntu.org
<knome> pending on canonical IS :P
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> np
<knome> poked them, might get fixed in a minute
<knome> it is a trivial issue altogether
<elfy> knome: just a small point re the beta2 notes at wiki - we tell people that abiword has a black ruler - which is easy enough to deal with - but don't say anything about user admin crashing when adding users, not particularly worried just not seeing the logic in it :)
<knome> elfy, let me tell you a secret... there is no logic in it
<elfy> ok - that's sorted then :)
<knome> elfy, if you think the users-admin bug is worth mentioning, feel free to go ahead and add it to the list - i'm fine with that
<elfy> I might later aqfter some thought :)
<knome> just don't think we want to list all bugs we've had, because that would pretty much defeat the purpose
<knome> the list needs to be only so long that people actually read it
<elfy> I understand that :)
<brainwash> nm-applet and xfce4-indicator-plugin tend to "crash" alot on login
<brainwash> it's like every 2nd login they decide to trigger apport :)
<GridCube> knome, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/DesktopOfTheWeek
<GridCube> updated the wiki list, the last two just need the users to update their licence, but they should be OK 
<knome> okay
<knome> i need to document a plugin.
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=1801&preview=true
<knome> we probably want bigger and more visible captions (and desciption in addition to title), right?
<elfy> I'm sorry, but you're looking for something that is not here.
<elfy> couldn't say :)
<knome> elfy, login in at /wp-admin/
<knome> then reload the page
 * elfy has no idea about that - think I've done it once :)
<knome> now you have some idea? ;)
<elfy> yep :)
<elfy> I'd agree with your comment ^^
<knome> that needs some css updates
 * elfy wanders of into the corner of the room muttering about voodoo 
<knome> heh
<knome> i'm off now. i'll work on the general site updates and this when i have some time for that
<knome> see you
<elfy> cya later
<elfy> knome: when we're both about in the nearish future - I'd like to grab 10 minutes - nothing urgent though 
<knome> well i can have that 10mins now, i have nothing i have to run to
<elfy> ok - I can do it now 
<elfy> I'm just looking forward to testing etc for T cycle - I know we have social media things we can shout on - I'd like to see that happen, but I don't do so myself 
<knome> sure
<knome> they are administrated by various people
<elfy> also what's the chances of getting something a bit more prominent on xubuntu.org 
<knome> we should probably look into extending the admin groups for each during the T cycle
<knome> pleia2, ^
<elfy> like kubuntu do - maybe announcements or links to the social things? 
<knome> well we have links on the footer
<knome> and we can post blog articles
<knome> i should go through some scenarios while i update the site looks
<elfy> http://www.kubuntu.org/   the latest news/announcements thing
<elfy> just a thought 
<elfy> I know we have links etc 
<knome> yeah, it's just about writing stuff and then publishing
<knome> you can prepare articles yourself, people on ~xubuntu-web can help with publishing
<knome> making everything a bit more readable is what the update is supposed to do
<knome> http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/ is the staging site where i test various things
<elfy> ok - that's good - I'm happy to look at writing things QA related that we can put there
<knome> that still lacks various updates, but hey, it's something ;)
<elfy> I just want to try and get QA/testing a bit more front of house than it is somehow
<knome> yep, i understand that
<elfy> wanted to get the conversation started 
<knome> so basically, just login to the site via wp-admin/
<knome> start a new article
<knome> and poke me (or others in ~xubuntu-web) when you are somewhat ready to get that out
<elfy> ok - that's enough for the moment then - thanks knome :)
<knome> then we can prepare for publishing
<elfy> ok - thanks :)
<knome> when we publish news, we always push them to social media
<knome> so that gets covered as well
<elfy> right - wasn't sure of the way we did these things 
<knome> a lot of it is done by me and pleia2 some way or another, depending how much publicity we need
<elfy> I understand that - I'll try not to bore you both with excessive demands :p
<knome> no, that's fine
<knome> as long as somebody else prepares the articles, i'm fine with pushing whatever
<elfy> :) you can wander off now then 
<knome> hehe :)
<knome> ok, have fun and catch you later
<elfy> yep - proactive :)
<ochosi> brainwash: btw, did you ask around on #systemd?
<brainwash> ochosi: yea, but no activity in that channel
<ochosi> mkay
<ochosi> brainwash: have you tried to edit the policy, then logout and then use the restart-menuitem?
<ochosi> i mean, does it even restart or does it ask for an admin pwd or anything?
<brainwash> ochosi: of course, changed it and everything works like expected
<ochosi> ok, thanks, will discuss the course of action with bluesabre once he's around
<ochosi> and anyway, we'll have to test whether it also works if we just tweak the greeter, without touching the policy
<brainwash> yes, it almost looks like lightdm-gtk-greeter is the only app relying on these policies
<brainwash> oh nice, the session logout delay is getting fixed
<ochosi> darn, it can't be fixed just in the greeter
<brainwash> lightdm
<ochosi> not really either
<ochosi> i really have to check what they do in indicator-session... :s
<brainwash> but lightdm evaluates the state of logind and its policies
<ochosi> right, but it returns the policy correctly
<ochosi> it'd be weird to break that
<brainwash> yea, dirty workaround
<ochosi> dirty dirty
<brainwash> and maybe even risky
<brainwash> nice, just installed ubuntu-desktop without recommended packages and unity appears to be broken
<brainwash> (installed every desktop environment except kde)
<brainwash> ochosi: poettering â brainwash: well, is this logind on ubuntu? please talk to them, we don't support that upstream
<ochosi> oh, the great poettering himself...
<ochosi> but what does that mean?
<ochosi> and also: the same thing happens on archlinux
<ochosi> what did you ask him exactly?
<brainwash> "why do the logind policy rules for "power-off-multiple-sessions" and "reboot-multiple-sessions" differ? and why does logind think that multiple sessions are running after logging out completely?"
<brainwash> + bug report link
<ochosi> ok cool
<brainwash> are you in that channel also?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> just joined later than you asked
<brainwash> ok, you can do the talk now
<ochosi> we'll see...
<brainwash> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=299404a19f26aa4f203042d8285ee0b7afa5bf40
<brainwash> ^ !!!
<ochosi> :)
<brainwash> success
<ochosi> ok, wanna link to the commit in the bugreport?
<ochosi> after all you figured it out
<ochosi> (now we "only" have to find out who's responsible for pk on ubuntu and get in touch with them)
<brainwash> how can I do it properly?
<brainwash> no, the policy file is shipped with system
<brainwash> systemd
<brainwash> so we need to backport this commit =S
 * ochosi starts chatting up mdeslaur
<brainwash> added a comment about the fix
<ochosi> great, thanks!
<ochosi> am already in touch with the systemd maintainer
<ochosi> mdeslaur$ ochosi: ok, give me 10 minutes, and I'll upload a fix
<ochosi> brainwash: ^
<brainwash> suddenly everything goes super fast :D
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> well done brainwash 
<ochosi> o/
<brainwash> hooray
<ochosi> (that's an attempt to high5 you.. ;))
<brainwash> o/
<ochosi> \o
<Unit193> o/\o
<ochosi> and there i was, thinking that we wouldn't get this fixed for 13.10 a few minutes ago
<ochosi> thanks Unit193 for highlighting the concept (:
<brainwash> that means more time to fix the abiword ruler :P
<ochosi> oh that...
<ochosi> yeah, i started reading the source, not very much fun as it's cpp and cross-platform
<ochosi> but i'm on it, is what i'm saying, i guess
<brainwash> the 10 people on this planet who actually use abiword and xubuntu will be very grateful :)
<ochosi> abiword+xubuntu+greybird|bluebird
<ochosi> if they use albatross or numix, it works
<brainwash> isn't numix the black theme?
<ochosi> it's darkish yeah
<ochosi> dark menubar
<brainwash> and the border around the document is black too, but the ruler is visible?
<ochosi> no, it's all fine
<ochosi> you have to switch theme first, and then start abiword
<ochosi> gtk3 apps need restarts after theme-changes
<ochosi> maybe that'll get fixed at some point
<brainwash> ok, I'll test it on my test machine
<ochosi> <cool
<brainwash> yes, confirmed
<brainwash> xfsettingsd stopped working (partially) due to installing all these desktop environments side by side
<brainwash> and numix looks nice
<brainwash> overall I mean
<ochosi> yup, which is why we included it by default
<ochosi> and i love that you can easily change the red to e.g. greybird's blue by using gtk-theme-config
<ochosi> hmpf, even after reading the abiword source and getting a diff of the commit that supposedly fixed the colors in the rulers and page-background, i still don't know why it's not working...
<brainwash> :(
<brainwash> did you enable proposed? you should test the systemd fix
<ochosi> cause judging from the code alone, it should work
<ochosi> yeah, i'm about to test it, just updated the packages
<pleia2> I need to run out for a couple hours, looks like our announcement is pretty much prepped (thanks knome!) and just need to hit publish on zee blog when it's out
<ochosi> brb
 * pleia2 wanders toward the bay
<ochosi> brainwash: yup, works as expected
<brainwash> ochosi: great, regarding the stupid abiword ruler, did you figure out why numix and greybird behave differently?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> no idea
<ochosi> we (as in: satya and me) both compared the codebases of the themes and didn't find anything
<ochosi> so not sure really what's going on there
<brainwash> too bad I don't know much about css
<brainwash> I could only test it with trial&error
<ochosi> well as things stand, that's all we can do as well
<ochosi> knowing css doesn't help much if you have no clue what to look for
<brainwash> actually not worth the time, low priority bug
<brainwash> workaround: use numix
<brainwash> I fell in love with numix (and unity and unity-tweak-tool)
<ochosi> well thing is that it's a default app with our default theme...
<ochosi> but yeah, i'll leave it for a rainy day
<ochosi> night everyone!
<brainwash> good night
<ali1234> brainwash: systemd fix? you mean upstart right?
<brainwash> systemd/logind
<brainwash> bug 1226509
<ubottu> bug 1226509 in systemd (Ubuntu) "lightdm_get_can_restart returns false in Ubuntu Saucy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1226509
<brainwash> ah yes, james hunt also fixed the upstart delay thingy
<brainwash> bug 1227212
<ubottu> bug 1227212 in upstart "Session logout takes too long" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227212
<ali1234> yeah there's a patch, dunno if it is available anywhere built
<brainwash> I'm fine without the "benefits" of upstart user sessions, so I leave it disabled :P
<ali1234> i prefer an orderly shutdown
<ali1234> when i shutdown it is usually a last resort anyway
<brainwash> now with the pending fix things should work normally again I hope
<brainwash> abiword ruler mystery [solved]
<brainwash> wasn't even that hard to find the "buggy" style element
<brainwash> ochosi: http://lpaste.net/93462
<brainwash> any thoughts regarding this issue bug 1221809 ?
<ubottu> bug 1221809 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "systemd-shim removal causes restart to logout" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1221809
<brainwash> it might affected people who somehow removed systemd-shim and upgrade from 13.04 to 13.10 
<brainwash> should be a rare case I guess
<ali1234> ochosi: the abiword rulers are too dark with orion as well. probably the same thing
<knome> pleia2, see -offtopic, "release" if you wish :)
<knome> ->
<pleia2> I'm awake for a long time
<pleia2> only 4:30 pm here :)
<pleia2> I don't mind waiting until all the dust settles everywhere
<brainwash> ali1234: yes, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1031137/comments/5
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1031137 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "Abiword has strange black color" [Undecided,In progress]
<brainwash> ali1234: did you test my fix for greybird?
<ali1234> no but i looked at it and i don't understand why it fixes it
<ali1234> the gradient should evaluate to almost exactly the same
<ali1234> maybe the widget doesn't support background-image?
<brainwash> I have no clue.. just did some trial&error debugging
<brainwash> suspending for a longer time frame seems to cause some unexpected behavior on my laptop, logind won't permit any operation (suspend, reboot, shutdown) after successfully resuming
<brainwash> maybe anyone else can confirm this
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-27
<ochosi> brainwash: woot
<ochosi> holy smokes, but why?
<ochosi> btw, it's sufficient to add a background-color, you can leave the background-image set as it is
<ochosi> anyway, pushed the fix to bluebird, greybird and orion
<ochosi> the weird thing is that the background-color should be inherited by that widget anyway, but it seems the weird way abiword creates a testwidget to get the themecolors involves an entry
<knome> hoi
<ochosi> and it only gets the background-color attribute, not the -image
<ochosi> it's a bit silly but tbh i don't care about abiword enough to investigate this to the bottom
<ochosi> hoi knome 
<ochosi> knome: so the first three known issues of b2 have fixes in the pipe
<knome> nice
<ochosi> i mean 1,2 and 4
<ochosi> indicator-plugin is still in limbo, i assume
<knome> heh
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Someone needs to find a way to get micah to finish packaging that. 
<ochosi> well he doesn't seem to be around much atm
<brainwash> ochosi: o/
<ochosi> hey
<brainwash> we need to push that fix
<brainwash> :P
<ochosi> i wanna try and get it in in one upload with the greeter fix
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> ochosi: any idea regarding bug 1221809 ? we both were affected after upgrading from 13.04 to 13.10
<ubottu> bug 1221809 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "systemd-shim removal causes restart to logout" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1221809
<ochosi> well it needs to be set as a depend
<ochosi> but we'd need to talk to either mr_pouit or micahg about this issue
<knome> depend to what?
<brainwash> consolekit was set as recommended, and recommended packages don't get pulled in when upgrading, or?
<knome> they normally do
<knome> but if you have uninstalled before upgrading, they don't
<knome> or if you use --no-install-recommends (or something else to make that setting permanent)
<brainwash> yes, this is the case, people might have removed "systemd-shim"
<brainwash> but adding to the list of recommended packages might be still a good idea
<knome> should be added to depends, so people can't remove that.
<brainwash> (just checking all my bookmarked launchpad report, and this one is still open without confirmation from a maintainer)
<brainwash> reports
<knome> b2 is out, published announcement and tweeted
<knome> pleia2, 
<brainwash> added the upstream bug report to bug 1229486
<ubottu> bug 1229486 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Lock screen before sleep doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229486
<brainwash> I think this issue has been around since forever
<ochosi> we might be able to get rid of that with light-locker in 14.04
<ochosi> because it locks before suspend by default
<brainwash> ochosi: remember when I asked you about this when talking about light-locker weeks ago? it did bother me that light-locker wasn't able to lock the session immediately after suspend :)
<ochosi> yeah, true
<ochosi> but it listens to the signals
<ochosi> so not that much more we can do about it
<ochosi> unless it gets better integration into powermanager or session
<brainwash> so question might be, why does the execution of xflock4 get delayed in some cases? hardware-specific?
<brainwash> the suspend process can differ alot, also the needed time to fully suspend
<ochosi> i think that the session would have to handle it
<brainwash> the session calls xflock4
<ochosi> but the question is, can the session still execute things like suspend after it is locked
<ochosi> i really don't know enough about sessions
<ochosi> but as ubuntu plans to integrate light-locker by default we can see how they handle it ;)
<brainwash> damn vt switching =S
<ochosi> yeah, we'll also see about that
<ochosi> that used to be the blocker for light-locker
<ochosi> or for something like light-locker
<ochosi> ofc no-one likes the flickering
<brainwash> I can't use slock or i3lock in saucy, because it tends to corrupt the screen (xorg) after unlocking
<brainwash> so I'm using gnome-screensaver now
<brainwash> I'll check the xfce4-session source code, maybe there is something which could be improved
<baizon> hi, just wanted to mention http://xubuntu.org/news/saucy-salamander-b2/ , link  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta2/Xubuntu got a wrong url
<baizon> it has: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta2/Xubuntu?action=edit&editor=text
<baizon> but i think it should be : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/Beta2/Xubuntu
<baizon> when i click on the link i get: "You are not allowed to edit this page. "
<ochosi> baizon: thanks, fixed!
<ochosi> brainwash: fix for bug #1227735 pushed to git
<ubottu> bug 1227735 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "lightdm-gtk-greeter: disable/fix password input field context menu" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227735
<brainwash> ochosi: context menu [ok], abiword ruler [ok]
<brainwash> the xfce4 settings daemon is causing some trouble on my test system
<brainwash> can anyone confirm, that xfce4-terminal crashes when you navigate to Menu bar > Terminal > Set Encoding ?
<brainwash> it does on both installations here
<ali1234> yes, it crashed
<brainwash> can you upload the apport report? don't feel like enabling apport anytime soon
<ali1234> i have non-standard packages installed so it won't let me
<ali1234> launchpad will just mark it invalid
<ali1234> it is already reported
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal/+bug/1206739
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> unable to connect to ibus
<brainwash> I enabled apport, but the terminal did not trigger it
<brainwash> ibus-ui-gtk3 did trigger apport (gtk3 indicator I guess)
<ali1234> this may be related to the keyboard indicator not working
<brainwash> right
<brainwash> this gtk2/gtk3 transition did break much stuff
<brainwash> bug 1224496
<ubottu> bug 1224496 in ibus (Ubuntu) "ibus crashes on login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1224496
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i can confirm that too
<ochosi> bbl
<ToZ> anyone know why pm-utils is not installed by default on 13.10? 
<brainwash> ToZ: nice find, strange indeed
<brainwash> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/saucy/beta-2/xubuntu-13.10-beta2-desktop-amd64.manifest
<GridCube> its there any test needed?
<ToZ> brainwash, installing it fixes bugs 1229486 & 1229478 that I noticed during testing.
<ubottu> bug 1229486 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Lock screen before sleep doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1229486
<brainwash> ToZ: no clue, why xubuntu is the only spin not shipping pm-utils anymore
<brainwash> maybe a dependency for it needs to be added (xubuntu-desktop)
<brainwash> ToZ: "System does successfully suspend when lid closed or "sudo pm-suspend"."
<brainwash> so pm-suspend was not missing?
<ToZ> pm-suspend was missing, yes
<ToZ> oops, I'll correct that in the report.
<brainwash> I suggest filing a bug report against xubuntu-meta and requesting pm-utils to be included by default
<ToZ> Interesting. "sudo pm-suspend" doesn't lock the screen. Suspend from the menu or lid close does.
<brainwash> kinda expected I guess
<ToZ> why?
<brainwash> xfce4-screensaver does not detect suspend/resume and will not lock the screen automatically
<ToZ> "xubuntu-meta" does not exist? Can't file bug report.
<brainwash> gnome-screensaver on the other hand is able to
<knome> that'd be xscreensaver
<brainwash> yea
<knome> we're about to make changes to the locking on 14.04, i don't think we will dig too deep in this with 13.10
<brainwash> xscreensaver
<brainwash> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta
<brainwash> knome: getting a bit confused by the terminology :D
<knome> that happens
<ToZ> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1232027
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1232027 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "pm-utils not installed by default in 13.10" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> knome: can you triage the bug report and assign a priority please?
<knome> done.
<brainwash> thanks
<brainwash> knome: could also add bug 1206739 to the list of known beta bugs please?
<ubottu> bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206739
<knome> brainwash, i don't think that's critical enough
<knome> that happens, but there are many more crashes
<brainwash> but the terminal geeks will be sad :/
<GridCube>  its there any test i could to today?
<knome> brainwash, we can't list everybody xubuntu has, can we?
<knome> *every bug
<knome> GridCube, well, b2 is released but you can always test the daily
<brainwash> knome: yea, we better don't do that :)
<knome> besides, b2 is released, that's already missing :P
<knome> can't keep on adding new bugs
<pleia2> knome: thanks g+ed too (and it x-posted to fb as expected, yay)
<knome> :)
<pleia2> happy beta2 day for real
<knome> you too
<knome> off
<knome> see you later
<pleia2> enjoy
<brainwash> ochosi: remember that we talked about the appfinder showing up with a noticeable delay? I told you that it shows up instantly on my test system, now few days later I can confirm this issue
<elfy> I can confirm that it's still immediate here :)
<brainwash> yes, on my main system it's still instant
<brainwash> bug 1048805
<ubottu> bug 1048805 in xfce4-appfinder (Ubuntu) "xfrun4 launches very slowly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048805
<brainwash> the last 2 comments are amazing
<olbi> hello all :D
<brainwash> elfy: just curious, do you run xubuntu saucy on a laptop/notebook?
<elfy> brainwash: not in general 
<elfy> I use a laptop to test iso's mostly
<elfy> hi olbi 
<pleia2> hmm, i think it's time to formally upgrade my laptop
<olbi> pleia2: which Xubuntu do you have on laptop?
<pleia2> olbi: I have 13.04 on 2 laptops and 2 desktops, 12.04 on my netbook
<pleia2> going to upgrade non-work laptop to 13.10 today
<olbi> I think that 13.10 isn't stable yet :)
<olbi> I have sometimes crash with USC :P
<elfy> use it to install synaptic ... :p
<pleia2> olbi: if you're not already, can you submit bug reports for issues you find so we can tackle them before release?
<pleia2> we depend on folks like you using it to catch things :)
<baizon> elfy: then a question. I have a strange behavior... while my laptop shuts down, if i close him the system gets into suspend instead of finishing the shutdown process. You have the same behavior maybe?
<olbi> hmm, I gave it :)
<baizon> not sure if only me is affected
<elfy> baizon: I can check that 
<baizon> thank you
<olbi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1230123
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1230123 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed after installing software" [Undecided,New]
<olbi> and the most annoying is that sound menu :P
<elfy> olbi: the sound notification issue? 
<olbi> yes
<baizon> olbi: there is a simple workaround
<olbi> I have found temporary fix at launchpad and it's working
<elfy> baizon: ok - what I am seeing is this - Shutdown, close lid, open lid, press power button - shutdown not finished but interrrupted, finishes shutdown
<baizon> elfy: yes so its a bug
<elfy> seems so 
<elfy> baizon:  you going to report it ? 
<baizon> no, will do in a sec
<elfy> ok - let me know and I'll me too it
<brainwash> shutdown takes 1 sec on my main system, not much time to actually close the lid that fast
<elfy> :)
<baizon> brainwash: some for me
<olbi> hmm, which files are responsible for translation items from Settings Manager?
<baizon> but when i "click" log out, i close the lid and it can happen then
<brainwash> logout?
<brainwash> weren't we talking about shutdoen? :)
<elfy> we were 
<brainwash> I noticed some strange behavior when suspending for a longer time frame, after resuming the session won't let me perform actions like reboot/shutdown/.. and the network manager remains in an idle state (deactivated)
<brainwash> hard to tell if it is a reproducible issue, or some race condition occurring after resume
<baizon> brainwash: i ment the log out dialog
<brainwash> you open the dialog, hit the shutdown button and close the lid?
<baizon> brainwash: yes
<elfy> I'm not sure it suspends so much as interrupts the shutdown 
<elfy> because opening the lid and hitting the power button just lets the shutdown continue
<elfy> like this one 
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/138194
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 138194 in indicator-session (Ubuntu) "Closing lid during initial shutdown causes notebook to suspend" [Low,Confirmed]
<baizon> elfy: well it is the same bug
<elfy> baizon: yea - seems to be an old hanging one then
<baizon> but this bug didn't occur on my 13.04 system
<baizon> wait a sec
<elfy> well I can't comment on that as I never reaqlly use the laptop for long enough to notice 
<baizon> ok, so the problem is, i set my laptop to do nothing when i close the lid but it gets into suspend
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1232103
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1232103 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Computer suspends when lid is closed, but it shouldn't." [Undecided,New]
<elfy> that's on AC
<baizon> ok got a fix/workaround
<baizon> elfy: posted it
<elfy> number?
<knome> elfy, see same bug
<elfy> oh right
<baizon> ok, the only bug i have is that my sessions are getting saved
<brainwash> once again some systemd shenanigans
<brainwash> however, I start to like systemd :)
<brainwash> elfy: can you share the link to the xubuntu developer pad please?
<elfy> brainwash: which one - I've got a bunch of them
<brainwash> the interactive pad
<elfy> you mean an empty one?
<brainwash> no, the xubuntu beta one
<elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu1310Beta2Release
<elfy> brainwash: I've got loads of different xubuntu ones kicking about :)
<brainwash> elfy: thanks :)
<knome> we're not following the beta one too much any more, maybe you should start another one with the bugs if you want to have some kind of list
<brainwash> so no plans to continue this sort of bug tracking?
<knome> that depends
<knome> the critical bugs should be listed in the blueprints
<knome> the rest... people who work on them should keep a track of them (and that's easily done when you're the assignee on LP=
<knome> )
<knome> there are ways to find all the bugs reported via the iso tracker to xubuntu from LP
<knome> the launchpad advanced search is really powerful
<knome> if people explain and argument why tracking bugs elsewhere is better and it makes sense, then let's do it
<knome> elfy, any arguments for doing something else than LP tracking since we last talked? ^
<elfy> none - once I could see how to do it 
<elfy> and that it worked
<knome> i suppose ultimately, even if you wanted to do some manual tracking, the easiest way is keep tagging stuff
<elfy> yep
<knome> xubuntu-1310 or so
<knome> then just filter out the bugs with those tags
<elfy> worth thinking about perhaps - but it'll need to be a proper system for tags
<brainwash> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-s-development
<elfy> no good each of us using different tags 
<brainwash> this one here?
<knome> i don't know about the thinking; the purpose should make it obvious what the tag should be
<knome> brainwash, that's the blueprint.
<knome> elfy, you have the iso-tracker filtered bugs around handy or should i recreate that?
<elfy> knome: I agree - but if we've a bunch of people all thinking this makes sense 
<knome> heh, sure
<elfy> 2 secs
<elfy> http://tinyurl.com/qzxv9t7
<elfy> knome: that list? 
<knome> yep
<knome> brainwash, ^ that's the bugs from iso testing
<Noskcaj> knome, Did you ever get time to look at the new debian release of xfwm4? It's a (rather important) doc fix
<brainwash> knome: ok, thanks :)
<knome> Noskcaj, as i said back then, i'm fine with getting them both in, but somebody needs to take care of that, and thought you would be up for it
<Noskcaj> knome, I was waiting for micahg and mr_pouit to reply. I've already made the sync bug, i'll make a branch today
<elfy> brainwash: pads are great for collaborative stuff - but without the link they're no good to anyone else :)
<knome> Noskcaj, as i also said back then, you shouldn't count on them doing the work
<knome> Noskcaj, thanks for taking care
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> no problem
<Noskcaj> looks like i've got a kernal upgrade to do first
<olbi> Xubuntu will have Linux 3.10 or we go for 3.11 in plans?
<Noskcaj> olbi, I've just had 3.11 installed, but that might be from proposed
<olbi> me too have 3.11 :D
<olbi> after upgrading :)
<olbi> no proposal repo
<elfy> I've had 3.11 for ages
<brainwash> ^ since forever
<elfy> well - I've told you a million times ;)
<brainwash> 3.2, 3.5, 3.8, 3.11
<olbi> https://01.org/linuxgraphics/downloads/2013/2013q3-intel-graphics-stack-release - yuppi :D
<olbi> I will check it soon :)
<ochosi> brainwash: hm, meh, not good...
<brainwash> ochosi: after fixing some bugs new ones appear out of nowhere :/
<brainwash> never ending cycle
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> this cycle is quite unstable (again)
<brainwash> yea, mainly due to the systemd/logind and gtk3 transition
<brainwash> gtk3 indicators
<ochosi> well the gtk3 indicators have been coming ournway a few releases now
<ochosi> it's just getting gradually worse
<brainwash> the Xfce team isn't making any noticeable progress with gtk3
<brainwash> and glib 2.37 is causing some trouble too
<ochosi> aha.
<ochosi> ?
<brainwash> bug 1206739
<ubottu> bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206739
<ochosi> (thatdot should've been a question mark)
<ochosi> ah, that's a glib bug? didnt get a chance to read the report after confirming it
<brainwash> I'm trying to debug this one, but gdb crashes
<ochosi> is it reported upstream too?
<brainwash> did not check yet
<brainwash> maybe ubuntu specific
<ochosi> :/
<brainwash> I'm trying to fix another pending bug.. sadly I might lack some knowledge about debugging properly
<ochosi> what other vug.
<brainwash> what?
<ochosi> (ipad keyboard fail..)
<ochosi> what other bug?
<brainwash> oh, my mistake
<brainwash> s/fix/find
<ochosi> haha
<brainwash> most of my bookmarked bug reports are closed now
<ochosi> poor you! :)
<brainwash> got any bug reports you could need help with?
<ochosi> well there are a few things we wanna fix in the greeter
<ochosi> e.g. when the userlist is disabled, make 'enter' go to the password field
<ochosi> also, possibly add alt+f4 for the shutdown dialog
<ochosi> and improve kb support in that dialog too
<ochosi> and always set a default button
<brainwash> sounds interesting
<ochosi> (btw, really awesome work so far, thanks for all your contributions,)
<ochosi> s/,/!/
<brainwash> (glad I could help a bit)
<brainwash> :D
<ochosi> :)
<brainwash> I guess I'll put the greeter on my todo list, to test and try things, basically to learn how everything works
<ochosi> sweet
<brainwash> and the greeter isn't that complex either
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> but first I'll try to debug the terminal encoding menu thingy :)
<ochosi> cool :)
<brainwash> there is a nice discussion about pm-utils over at #ubuntu-devel
<brainwash> don't miss it :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-28
<elfy> Bug 1231978 
<ubottu> bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 under xubuntu 13.10 beta2 locks when browsing Trash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<elfy> that's an annoyance 
<brainwash> pcmanfm is also affected according to the bug reporter
<brainwash> time to boot my test machine..
<ochosi> elfy: can't confirm that on my install
<ochosi> browsing trash seems fine here
<brainwash> ochosi: default packages including gvfs?
<brainwash> but wait, would the trash even exist without the gvfs backend.. :D
<brainwash> ochosi: xfce4-appfinder starts delayed due to the known dbus timeout, still don't know why it started to behave like this out of nowhere
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, me neither. quite odd. wondering whether other 13.10 users will confirm it
<GridCube> confirm what?
<GridCube> i have a vbox to test if you need 
<ochosi> delay when starting up appfinder
<GridCube> thats the alt-f2 thingy right?
<elfy> going to do a new vm now - will check the thunar and appfinders with that too
<brainwash> ochosi: it did start normally after installing Xubuntu daily, then few days later after bloating the system with almost every DE the appfinder takes some time to actually start (even on a fresh boot)
<brainwash> alt+f2 or via xfce4-appfinder
<brainwash> elfy: is the thunar trash issue reproducible after the first lock/crash?
<GridCube> i don't see any delay in xfrun4
<elfy> mmm so you can't delete things you create in a live session then 
<elfy> brainwash: yep - it is reproducible 
<elfy> and now ubiquity crashes
<brainwash> ubuntu lost its stability...
 * elfy too
<brainwash> ochosi: so I noticed that the transition from the greeter screen to the actual desktop isn't smooth when compositing is enabled (default), it's like this: greeter background -> grey background caused by the compositor -> then xfdesktop starts and sets the desktop wallpaper
<elfy> mmm - so odd behaviour with thunar in live session made ubiquity have a paddy
<elfy> reboot and it's ok
<brainwash> ochosi: known issue I guess, but it should be addressed
<brainwash> elfy: can you test pcmanfm also?
<elfy> why would I do that? 
<brainwash> so we can add it to the list of affected packages
<brainwash> and even gvfs
<elfy> mmm - well I'm actually only interested in default xubuntu packages 
<brainwash> gvfs is a default package
<brainwash> and it's responsible for the trash interaction
<elfy> won't let me delete to trash - lets me completely deletee
<elfy> rebooting it 
<brainwash> the gvfs packages have been updated just very recently 2013-09-27 
<brainwash> "New upstream bug fix release."
<brainwash> so you might need to apply updates before testing the issue
<elfy> locally it's up to date
<elfy> the iso I booted from for vm is today's
<brainwash> ok
<elfy> well all the errors at least tell me the same thing :)
<elfy> brainwash: so - after thunar has failed to do it's thing and creating an empty file with pcmanfm
<elfy> trying to start install/delete said file/open a screenshot all gets this error - just with different window titlebars 
<elfy> http://imagebin.org/272188
<brainwash> :/
<brainwash> well, I can confirm that thunar locks
<elfy> won't even let me add the screenshots to the bug report in f/fox either lol 
<elfy> bug 1232453
<ubottu> bug 1232453 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "File creation/opening files cause ubiquity to fail" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232453
<elfy> ochosi: however before all that went on - appfinder was working fine and quickly from either AltF2 or panel
<elfy> back later
<elfy> hi TheDrums 
<elfy> ToZ even 
<ToZ> hi elfy 
<baizon> ok, all bugs fixed :)
<brainwash> bug 1231978 needs to be resolved asap
<ubottu> bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 under xubuntu 13.10 beta2 locks when browsing Trash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<ochosi> brainwash: not that easy to address the transition to desktop, possibly it'd have to be some kind of "effect" like blending over that gives everything time to load. or a patch in the session-manager to only display stuff as soon as everything is loaded (could also look weird, going from black to everything...)
<brainwash> ochosi: maybe just setting the root background after login (before everything loads) could work
<ochosi> yeah, so greeter > black screen > desktop?
<brainwash> use the user background
<ochosi> that means loading xfdesktop
<ochosi> otherwise it's a bit of a duplication imo
<ochosi> xfdesktop should be lean enough to load reasonably fast
<brainwash> yes, it is, but xfdesktop starts after everything else (it looks like it does)
<brainwash> I'll just file a bug report
<ochosi> then that should be addressed in the session-manager imo
<brainwash> and we will see
<brainwash> this thunar/xfdesktop/pcmanfm trash issue is bothering me
<ochosi> couldn't reproduce it
<ochosi> maybe i'm missing some updates..?
<ochosi> it started to appear very recently only, right?
<brainwash> bug report is just 1 day old
<brainwash> and there was a gvfs update too
<ochosi> ok i'll monitor my incoming updates
<brainwash> nautilus/nemo are not affected
<ochosi> well it's *very* possible that it's gvfs related if it doesn't just affect thunar
<ochosi> :/
<Unit193> apt-listchanges?
<pjotr> I just installed Xubuntu Saucy beta 2. What I really missed was Gparted in the live session. Can Gparted be added again?
<brainwash> maybe it something different, the window locks -> no more interaction other then window manager stuff is possible
<ochosi> the changelog says "* New upstream bug fix release."
<ochosi> fun
<brainwash> BUT it still displays changes to the trash folder if you use a second instance of thunar and delete some more files
<brainwash> pjotr: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/saucy/beta-2/xubuntu-13.10-beta2-desktop-amd64.manifest
<brainwash> gparted0.16.1-1
<brainwash> so it should be there, technically
<pjotr> brainwash: well, I couldn't find it....
<ochosi> it's in the settings-manager
<brainwash> settings manager?
<brainwash> or via alt+F2
<brainwash> ochosi: and I noticed, that since the slowness of appfinder started xfseetingsd is also acting strange
<brainwash> not reacting to key presses (keyboard shortcuts) or theme changes
<pjotr> OK, I'll check settings manager. However: "system" or even "accessories" seems a more logical place in the menu
<ochosi> pjotr: yep, iirc there was a bugreport for that
<pjotr> brb
<brainwash> ochosi: so try to delete a file, maybe two, the right-click on the trash icon and empty it
<ochosi> guess i
<ochosi> 'd have to restart
<ochosi> can do that after finishing the wayland 1.3 presentation
<brainwash> I skipped most of the presentation
<brainwash> (boring)
<ochosi> yeah, i've seen a few of those already
<brainwash> so the gvfs "bug fix" update is most likely the culprit
<pjotr> brainwash: Gparted was in Settings Manager allright.... thanks for pointing it out
<pjotr> nevertheless: can you help moving it to System or Accessories? Much more intuitive locations.
<brainwash> gnome disks utility also shows up in the settings manager
<brainwash> many system apps actually do
<pjotr> not a very fortunate design decision, in my opinion....
<brainwash> well, you should consider filing a bug report
<Unit193> That's by design, if you look at the excludes in /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/menus/xfce-applications.menu
<Unit193> Was changed a little back.
<ochosi> k, i'll reboot now and then we'll see about the thunar trash bug
<ochosi> brb
<pjotr> Unit193: upstream at xfce or downstream at xubuntu?
<Unit193> Xubuntu.
<ochosi> brainwash: hmpf, confirmed :/
<ochosi> brainwash: did you check the logs already?
<brainwash> uhm, yea
<ochosi> which ones so far?
<brainwash> don't want to boot my test machine now
<brainwash> ~/.cache/upstart
<brainwash> the xfce session one
<brainwash> uhm, we have to confront pitti with this issue :D
<ochosi> well, you go ahead
<ochosi> you were already successful in getting poettering on the red telephone :)
<ochosi> hm, pitti has been away for more than a day
<ochosi> so maybe subscribe him to the bugreport?
<pjotr> I noticed during install of beta 2, that the Xubuntu ubiquity slideshow didn't use my recently updated Dutch translations. Will this be remedied before final release?
<brainwash> ochosi: yes, and add a comment about your findings
<brainwash> bug 1231978
<ubottu> bug 1231978 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar 1.6.3 under xubuntu 13.10 beta2 locks when browsing Trash" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1231978
<ochosi> can't delete a file
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> well and i can't downgrade gvfs anymore
<brainwash> commandline and navigate to ~/.local/share/Trash/
<ochosi> yeah sure
<ochosi> btw, why pitti? did he upload that version of gfvs?
<brainwash> between, does subscribing the package maintainer help?
<ochosi> yeah, it can't hurt
<ochosi> they might receive the bugmail anyway though
<ochosi> as soon as a new bug is reported
<ochosi> but giving this one some extra attention might be good
<brainwash> I guess he is one of the package maintainers
<brainwash> hehe :)
<brainwash> ochosi: did you already check the apt cache for the previous gvfs packages?
<brainwash> in case you want to reinstall them
<ochosi> apt-cache madison only gives me the faulty version
<ochosi> which sucks a bit cause i'd love to be able to downgrade to confirm once and for all that it's gvfs's fault
<ochosi> (even though i'm rather convinced already)
<Unit193> And in /var/cache/apt/archives/ ?
<ochosi> true, there it is...
<ochosi> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Unless you autoclean a lot. >_>
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> ok, confirmed that it's the gvfs upgrade
<brainwash> yes, I meant apt's cache location
<Unit193> brainwash: I read you right. :)
<brainwash> well, now we simply wait for a fix
<ochosi> well, if he had said "have you already checked cache apt"... :}
<ochosi> yeah i guess
<ochosi> it's a bit out of our hands now
<Unit193> I think enough is breaking for saucy very late. :/
<ochosi> i agree, although it's a bit "business as usual" already
<ochosi> i've seen enough releases where i thought a few weeks prior to the release "i'll definitely recommend my friends not to upgrade"
<ochosi> and then (mostly) things turned out fine
<ochosi> (that is not to say that this doesn't seriously suck as a general routine)
<brainwash> it's not that bad currently
<brainwash> xfce is still at 4.10-ish
<brainwash> but this gtk3 indicator mess... oh boy
<Unit193> I'm actually waiting to see what happens there before I upgrade, it's pretty much what's holding me back.
 * skellat is being cowardly and has his laptop stuck on the LTS for now
<Unit193> Well, I think it's going to complain if I try to upgrade with the held packages from precise again. :P
<bluesabre> alrighty, I might actually be able to be productive now
<Unit193> Woo! \o/
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> ahoi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
 * bluesabre wonders what to work on first
<ochosi> hard to say :)
<ochosi> what's on your agenda?
<bluesabre> I think I might add to your plugin failure detection
<bluesabre> which does work, so kudos
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> well it's good that it works, but it doesn't catch all the calls i think
<ochosi> it could/should be more thorough, although it only seems relevant with the current (packaging?) issue
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I might hack on the packaging tonight/tomorrow and see if I can figure anything out
<ochosi> packaging means mostly panel+indicators, right?
<bluesabre> that too
<ochosi> ah, you meant parole packaging
<ochosi> i think i could start on a todo-list for the greeter
<ochosi> could you link me to your dokuwiki again?
<bluesabre> smdavis.us/doku
<bluesabre> that would be a good idea
<ochosi> here it goes: V
<ochosi> http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=greeter-roadmap
<ochosi> brainwash: if you wanna take a look ^
<ochosi> (you can also add stuff if you want or fix stuff from the list ;)
<brainwash> bookmarked
 * bluesabre considers making a bug markup button for his wiki
<bluesabre> s/button/plugin
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-29
<Noskcaj> Can we get one of the xubuntu members as an admin on the xubuntu sub-reddit? Then we could get a flair like the ubuntu subrddit
<pleia2> I won't go near reddit, so if someone else wants to they are welcome to
<GridCube> i don't understand reddit
<GridCube> it makes no friggin sense
<Unit193> Man that site can be funnah. :D
<Unit193> Not looked at any subs on there for a while though.
<Noskcaj> GridCube, It's one of the best (and if well used, best for promotion) websites. It is difficult to learn though
<Noskcaj> pleia2, I could try and contact the mods. I'm looking into a similar thing for kubuntu and lubuntu
 * skellat notes far too late that he outright abandoned reddit as he found little use for it in the end game as it was full of...nothing...
<brainwash> ochosi: regarding the greeter -> xfce transition, http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/tree/src/compositor.c#n806
<brainwash> ochosi: you can build xfwm4 with MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP defined
<brainwash> ochosi: I'll test it and report any drawbacks 
<brainwash> the xfce4-panel app menu is able to scale pixmap icon files properly (now), but the xfdesktop app menu still isn't
<brainwash> it also does not display the missing-icon-file symbol
<brainwash> strnage inconsistency
<ochosi> yeah, separate menus
<ochosi> brainwash: i'm very interested to hear about that xfwm4 thingy
<brainwash> ochosi: I don't notice any change
<brainwash> ochosi: I even compiled it a second time after editing the source file directly
<ochosi> brainwash: hm, right, well xfdesktop's maintainer is aware of the issue
<brainwash> ochosi: of what? the general issue?
<ochosi> the slow startup of xfdesktop
<brainwash> and the missing pixmap scaling?
<brainwash> did you talk to him/her?
<brainwash> (you can test it with gcolor2 for example)
<ochosi> missing pixmap scaling?
<ochosi> (there's just been the first 4.11 release of the desktop today, btw)
<brainwash> install gcolor2, right-click the desktop > app menu > graphics
<ochosi> that menu is gone in 4.11
<ochosi> (which is what i'm using atm)
<ochosi> so you have to be more concrete with the pixmap scaling issue
<brainwash> gone?!
<ochosi> yeah, there's only the app-menu
<brainwash> what I'm trying to tell you is, that xfdesktop is still affected by bug 1061037
<ubottu> bug 1061037 in gdk-pixbuf (Ubuntu) "Using .xpm icons on desktop may draw huge icon" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1061037
<ochosi> aha
<brainwash> the normal panel menu isn't anymore
<ochosi> true
<brainwash> I guess we simply ignore this :)
<ochosi> well xpm icons are very retro ;)
<ochosi> but yeah, it should be fixed at some point
<ochosi> ideally for 4.12
<brainwash> and only few apps ship a launcher with full path xpm icon specified in their .desktop file
<brainwash> IDLE, gcolor2, gnome disk analyzer
<ochosi> are there bugreports for those apps upstream?
<ochosi> (or are all of them still maintained?)
<brainwash> don't fix the apps, fix the broken app menu :D
<brainwash> which will be gone soon anyway :/
<ochosi> no, that app-menu is still there
<ochosi> there were 2 variants in the 4.10 desktop-menu
<brainwash> ah, so 1 menu implementation remains
<brainwash> for both
<ochosi> one that was solely for apps and one that had some desktop-specific stuff
<ochosi> now there's only the one for apps
<ochosi> at least as far as i can say
<brainwash> ochosi: should I file the bug report about the non smooth greeter -> desktop transition against xfwm4, xfdesktop, xfce4-session or xubuntu-meta?
<ochosi> i'm not sure :}
<Pwnna> it must be said
<Pwnna> ubuntu 13.10 is stil lreally unstable :P
<brainwash> Pwnna: what exactly is unstable?
<Pwnna> everything
<elfy> nope
<elfy> not so here
<Pwnna> cannot go to sleep. if i play video games for a while (couple minutes), my computer will slow down and frame rate drops by about 60%. 
<Pwnna> no reason either, there's no overheating and such
<elfy> I assume you've posted bugs where appropriate
<Pwnna> not a lot of logs. the only thing i can see is this: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53571 but that's related to lock up
<ubottu> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 53571 in Video(DRI - Intel) "[fdo:54226] stale bcs->rcs semaphore" [Normal,New]
<Pwnna> elfy: i don't have logs..
<Pwnna> like. nothing in the logs
<Pwnna> bluetooth mouse does not reconnect like it did in 13.04
<elfy> ubuntu-bug blueman
<Pwnna> but i don't have logs.. so like it's like saying.  hey my bluetooth requires me to manually reconnect sometimes, not all the time. also i don't have logs
<Pwnna> in 13.04 it worked! 
<Pwnna> that kinda bug report is not really useful :3
<elfy> ubuntu-bug blueman
<elfy> and saying 'everything is unstable' is useful?
<Pwnna> it's not
<Pwnna> i was hoping someone can help me get logs
<Pwnna> the graphics/processing issue is the critical one
<Pwnna> but i can't get any logs
<Pwnna> i can reproduce everytime
<elfy> then report it - use ubuntu-bug and it'll grab what it needs afaik - then watch the bug and see if anything else is required
<Pwnna> well for the graphics one idk what the component maybe
<Pwnna> it might be the kernel, mesa, idk
<brainwash> there are plenty of log files located in /var/log
<Pwnna> nothing relating to the grapics issue.
<Pwnna> other than that bug that i found upstream, but that one is a) relating to lockups (which it did on my system) and b) present for a long time, but didn't show before. so i doubt that whatever is happening now is related to that..?
<elfy> Pwnna: so what grpahics card is it 
<Pwnna> happens on both my intel HD 3000 and the nvidia card
<Pwnna> i think that one is quadro 4200
<elfy> so how long has this been going on then with saucy?
<Pwnna> ever since i upgraded to it
<elfy> right 
<elfy> I'm not psychic enough to be able to guess when that was
<Pwnna> oh. 4 days ago
<brainwash> can you still boot one of the raring kernels or are they gone already?
<Pwnna> i see stack traces... probably relating to the sleep issue
<Pwnna> brainwash: gone
<brainwash> not sure, if this is the right channel for this kind of issue
<brainwash> does not seem to be xubuntu specific
<brainwash> did you already ask in #ubuntu+1?
<elfy> Pwnna: you might well find someone who can help in #ubuntu+1
<Pwnna> yeah
<Pwnna> maybe
<brainwash> Notice(queuebot): Unapproved: rejected libxfce4ui [sync] (saucy-proposed) [4.10.0-4]
<elfy> saw that ... 
<elfy> brainwash: confirmed thge xfwm4 bug
<ochosi> what xfwm4 bug?
<brainwash> more like a wishlist thingy
<elfy> the one you two were talking about earlier - "If the built-in compositor is enabled, xfwm4 will draw a plain grey background over the lightdm greeter background on session login"
<brainwash> bug 1232804
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "[compositing] improve login greeter -> desktop transition" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> yeah, as i said, not sure what component this bug should actually be filed against
<brainwash> did some more code hacking, but no success so far
<ochosi> have you tried enabling the splash-screen?
<ochosi> i mean the xfce-splash-screen
<brainwash> no, isn't that some ancient stuff?
<brainwash> and could it help?
<ochosi> well, it might still help to create a custom splash-screen that shows the user's wallpaper
<ochosi> for me it's hard to test anyway, the ssd makes the session load very quickly, so i don't see your bug
<brainwash> compositing enabled?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i also use autologin
<ochosi> that might contribute
<brainwash> yea
<brainwash> it's just an idea for the next milestone
<elfy> maybe tag it brainwash 
<elfy> though it might be useful to sort out an official xubuntu tag of some sort
<brainwash> don't know how
<brainwash> or which tag
<elfy> no idea how to create a new one - we were talking about this the other day 
<elfy> or at least someone and me was lol
<skellat> We got libxfce4ui rejected in queue.  Somebody may need to pop over to #ubuntu-release to discuss that.
<ochosi> what version of libxfce4ui is that and why was it uploaded?
<ochosi> connected to a bugreport?
<ochosi> brainwash: just to add that, xfwm4 is not currently in active development
<ochosi> at least not really
<brainwash> bug 1228731
<ubottu> bug 1228731 in libxfce4ui (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync libxfce4ui 4.10.0-4 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228731
<elfy> ochosi:  connected with bug 1055407 and bug 1198746
<ubottu> bug 346386 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "duplicate for #1055407 [MASTER] Update fails with invalid package files with "Encountered a section with no Package: header"" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/346386
<ubottu> bug 1198746 in libxfce4ui (Ubuntu) "Drop /usr/share/xfce4/vendorinfo" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1198746
<elfy> bug 1054407 
<ubottu> bug 1054407 in xfce4-screenshooter (Ubuntu) "xfhelp4 is not installed" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054407
<elfy> I mean :)
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> xfhelp stuff
<elfy> yup
<Unit193> xnox: Howdy.  Do you know where I should go for questions with ubiquiry and casper?
<Noskcaj> hey mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> hey Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> xfwm4 just got merged and libxfce4ui will be synced very soon
<xnox> Unit193: #ubuntu-installer
<brainwash> any idea, how I could debug bug 1206739 ?
<ubottu> bug 1206739 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "xfce4-terminal crashed with SIGSEGV in magazine_chain_pop_head()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206739
<Noskcaj> brainwash, install the -dev and -dbg packages for it if they exist, then run it from a terminal (with debug enabled, if possible). That's at least where to start
<brainwash> sadly no debug mode available, and running it from another terminal window will instantly crash both when the bug gets triggered
<brainwash> running it from a different terminal app will freeze the session (partially)
<Noskcaj> brainwash, maybe add "| tee FILENAME" at the end to get the logs (where FILENAME is whatever you want), but i assume the logs get recorded anyway
<brainwash> well, actually it does freeze the session completely, a working cursor does not help that much :)
<brainwash> tee redirects only stdout
<brainwash> I'll try it
<ochosi> brainwash: i think the most effective thing you can do is file a bug upstream
<ochosi> or check whether there's already one
<ochosi> and as soon as NSchermer is around again, you can ask him whether he can reproduce it
<ochosi> but it's possibly ubuntu-specific
<brainwash> maybe it needs to be rebuilt against a recent version of glib
<brainwash> I want to improve my debugging skills... but thus particular bug is strange
<brainwash> this
<brainwash> ochosi: are there any Xfce (core) developers which are also members of the Xubuntu team?
<ochosi> not really
<ochosi> bluesabre, mr_pouit and me contributed a bit to the display settings
<ochosi> but at the moment there aren't even that many core devs of xfce
<brainwash> ok :/
<brainwash> I guess they could need some man power for the gtk3 transition
<brainwash> and wayland support
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> feel free to start contributing!
<ochosi> or even start to motivate/recruit others ;)
<brainwash> I'm trying to get started, but the source code seems be quite complex and it's not easy to understand what's going on :)
<brainwash> and the whole api mess
<brainwash> hundreds of different apis
<ochosi> trying to fix bugs is always a good start
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-22
<bluesabre> gigolo's default terminal is xterm
<bluesabre> why does nobody complain? :)
<ali1234> what is gigolo?
<bluesabre> basically a frontend for mount
<ali1234> i'm guessing the answer is because nobody uses it?
<bluesabre> probably
<ali1234> thunar auto mounts anything anyway
<ali1234> i had to go into the help->about to even figure out what gigolo does
<bluesabre> Its useful for the bookmark manager at the very least... though I'd argue its usefulness is going away
<ali1234> it could be if the bookmarks actually showed up in thunar or places plugin, but they dont
<ali1234> it isn't a mismatch between gtk2/gtk3 bookmark locations either
<ali1234> it seems to store bookmarks privately
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> ali1234: btw, do you know how to enable mininize/max with gtk 3.12 headerbars?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i know how to patch out headerbars completely if that's any use?
<bluesabre> yeah, I knew you had that part down :)
 * skellat notes that gigolo is great for mounting OBEX/Bluetooth things to deal with when interrogating cell phones
<ali1234> indicator-bluetooth and blueman-applet both do that though, in a much more obvious way
<bluesabre> xubuntu-docs uploaded, yay!
 * bluesabre returns to what remains of his weekend
<ochosi> morning everyone
<knome> hey ochosi 
<bluesabre> hey all
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<elfy> so ...
<elfy> does gdm still work properly :D 
<elfy> just trying today's daily now
<bluesabre> any luck, or still broken?
<elfy> still installing bluesabre 
<elfy> I see respins in final beta's future ;)
<elfy> last week - hardware installs worked ok, it was only vm's with an issue
<elfy> but most people test with those ... 
<bluesabre> I think everybody needs one tonight... lots of things are landing this morning
<elfy> the beta's not up on the tracker yet anyway
<bluesabre> did a few package tests last night, found a new bug in blueman (maybe, it already had >70 bugs)
<elfy> few people test that 
<bluesabre> it looked like mine was the first reported result
<elfy> yea
<elfy> I've given up with package testing this cycle
<bluesabre> I'll probably test some more stuff tonight, time permitting
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta run now, bbl
<elfy> cya
<elfy> ftr - image still busted for vbox
<slickymasterWork> thnaks for the heads up on beta elfy 
<slickymasterWork> I was planning on doing some test after lunch
<elfy> slickymasterWork: only got dailies currently
<elfy> you *can* start desktop with service lightdm start
<slickymasterWork> I know, but as far as testing goes, are you interested?
<elfy> I'll be more interested in getting beta results
<elfy> but anything is good :)
<slickymasterWork> if yes, I'll download the ISO while having lunch at home
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll do it then, at least it will serve to increase the tests report numbers
<elfy> up to you slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> elfy: ^^
<elfy> :)
<elfy> yep
<slickymasterWork> cy after lunch elfy 
<slickymasterWork> off to lunch ->
<elfy> cya later - I'll be gone 
<slickymasterWork> have fun and be safe
<knome> we should create a wikipage that lists all software that we ship/care about and where their translations are being done to encourage people translating
<knome> and/or update the "get involved" page for translations
<knome> ok, improved the latter mentioned
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/translating/
<slickymasterWork> hey knome, great idea /work re: "Get involved" page for translations
<knome> ta :)
<knome> now we only lack a listing
<knome> want to set up a pad?
<slickymasterWork> elfy, the daily doesn't boot into graphical interface only on installation or did it also happens with the Try option?
<elfy> only once installed - the livesession works fine 
<elfy> at least for me
<slickymasterWork> also for me, and as I started with the Try option I just wanted to be sure
<slickymasterWork> will do knome, in a few minutes
<elfy> slickymasterWork: yep from livesession try & install both work 
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-apps-translations
<slickymasterWork> lol knome 
<knome> i'm a man of action
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, one can hardly breath 
<slickymasterWork> knome, what about the ones that are translated through Transifex like Whisker? I think they also should be added
<knome> yep
<knome> we should have the full listing of projects of which translations we care about
<knome> the xfce stuff is fine with a link to i18n.xfce.org
<slickymasterWork> that's my view also
<slickymasterWork> yeap, all that stuff get covered by that link
<knome> gimp? really?
<knome> i'd keep on the apps that we consider "core" components
<knome> no in the same sense as in xubuntu-core
<slickymasterWork> but it's shipped by default knome 
<knome> but gimp is a stretch IMO
<knome> well i plan to suggest dropping it :P
<slickymasterWork> and it's the only image editing software that we provide
<knome> i mean...
<knome> we have a lot of things shipped
<knome> but gimp has its own finnish translations team
<slickymasterWork> that's true
<knome> i'd imagine
 * slickymasterWork doesn't have the slightest idea about gimp translations
<knome> the list we have now sounds like a sane list of projects we need/want to maintain
<knome> ...translations for
<knome> me neither
<slickymasterWork> but I'm ok with dropping it
<knome> but i'm sure they have a policy ;)
<knome> i'd say even catfish/whiskermenu are on the verge, but it's ok to link those
<knome> they are relatively important components to the basic functionality
<knome> maybe this list should be in the processes page
<slickymasterWork> that's a good point knome 
<knome> with the rationale why the translations are important to us, it seems more like a list that describes what we do, not only what new people can do
<knome> but thanks for gathering the list
<knome> i'll put it up on the wiki at some point
<knome> feel free to edit until that; once i do, i'll leave a message in the pad pointing to the processes page; after that, feel free to edit the wiki directly
<slickymasterWork> well tha rationale of it kinda of place it in the correct position, not only it describes what we do but also serves as a call/request for getting people involved
<slickymasterWork> s/tha/the
<knome> yes
<knome> it's also a good reference sheet for the URLs...
<knome> just need to remember to edit that each cycle, since the slideshow is per-release
<slickymasterWork> ok knome, noted -> "feel free to edit until that; once i do, i'll leave a message in the pad pointing to the processes page; after that, feel free to edit the wiki directly"
<slickymasterWork> and every single time one of those apps get some sort of a revamp
<knome> yep
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Core_components
<knome> just need to make sure that, xubuntu-core and this list aren't mixed
<slickymasterWork> by the way knome, is https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/utopic/+pots/desktop-guide/fi/+translate status doc freeze previous or post doc freeze? 
<knome> it should be the latest translation template
<knome> i translated the few simple scan strings today
<knome> so i'd imagine everything is in the templates now
<slickymasterWork> I would cross reference with https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/core.html, re: xub core and that list but apparently Unit193 removed that page
<knome> yeah, but that list is NOT xubuntu-core
<knome> well, it kind of describes the same thing
<knome> i'm not sure if we really need that list in the strategy document
<slickymasterWork> it served as refernce to me :P
<slickymasterWork> s/reference
<knome> to me, it seems redundant because if there was new leadership, they could change the strategy document along with the shipped components
<knome> what i'm trying to say is i don't know what the point of describing that is
<slickymasterWork> yes
<knome> there are other things that, in my not at all humble opinion, contribute to the "xubuntu feel"
<slickymasterWork> I think we talking about different things knome 
<slickymasterWork> s/we/we're
<knome> and whatever package, there *always* should be a very compelling reason to switch, not only with the core components
<knome> probably ;)
<knome> the different things i'm saying are:
<knome> 1) the core components list does not equal xubuntu-core
<knome> 2) the core components list does not equal packages we think are important to translate
<slickymasterWork> agree with
<slickymasterWork> once again, I agree
<knome> 3) xubuntu-core does not include everything we think is important to translate
<knome> and
<slickymasterWork> that one I missed, Hasn't really cross my mind
<knome> 4) the core components list seems more and more redundant now that we have xubuntu-core and list important packages to translate
<knome> and
<knome> 5) the core components list is lacking, it doesn't list things that i consider "fundamental" for the xubuntu feel/identiety
<knome> *identity
<knome> and
<knome> 6) i don't understand the reason we list those packages since either a) leaders can change the spec if they want to switch to other components b) changing any component shouldn't be a light decision regardless if it was a "core" component or not
<slickymasterWork> lol knome, since you put it that way, I can only admit that I had narrowed view of it
<knome> and c) since the core components list is lacking, it does not serve the purpose we currently say it does
<knome> yeah...
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> re: your point 6 I was convinced it is due to mandatory paperwork/bureaucracy 
<knome> nope, there's no obligation to list those packages
<knome> they've only served the team
<slickymasterWork> being so, I have no clue, then
<knome> i guess there was a time when that kind of core components were much more under discussion
<knome> the section is pretty much copied from the original strategy document, only the list has been poked slightly
<slickymasterWork> but I do appreciate the insight on ^^^ 
<knome> i do agree with the SD, where it implies:
<slickymasterWork> all of it
<knome> "thunar is a fundamental component of xubuntu, and should not be changed unless it's either deprecated by upstream xfce or there are other very compelling reasons (that require) to substitute them"
<knome> but on the other hand, isn't that self-evident?
<slickymasterWork> yes, but any file manager is a key component in any OS
<slickymasterWork> exactly 
<knome> yes
<knome> if we even thought of replacing it with, say, nautilus, i'm sure there would be good reasons to do so
 * slickymasterWork doesn't like nautilus :P
<knome> the only thing i see that list doing is proctecting the "spirit" of the original xubuntu composition
<slickymasterWork> no amount or quality of those reasons would convince him
<knome> and i kind of agree with that, but i doubt the team would leave the project into somebody's hands who'd like to change it all
<knome> if such a person even wanted to be nominated to begin with
<slickymasterWork> btw knome, on a completely different subject, and because of the "spirit" of the original Xubuntu, did you manage to get in touch with mr_pouit?
<knome> and if that happened, well, then i guess it would be time to move on :)
<knome> for people, and xubuntu
<slickymasterWork> I would follow
<knome> heh, nope, didn't have time yet
<slickymasterWork> just asked beacuse of bug 165082
<ubottu> bug 165082 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Alert ! we are losing the history of xubuntu !" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/165082
<knome> protecting the spirit of a project and being able to move on are often contradicting
<knome> i guessed that
<slickymasterWork> lol, that's almost like a marriage knome ;)
<knome> hehe
<knome> yep
<knome> ochosi, you'll want to scan through that ^ discussion about three kinds of "core" stuff, and strategy document revamping :)
<slickymasterWork> knome, and gmb?
<knome> hmm
<knome> not sure about that
<knome> i guess we'd have to consult ochosi 
<slickymasterWork> and pidgin, as we're on it, it's supposed to became our main interface for IRCing?
<slickymasterWork> without the ?
<knome> yeah, but i don't consider that something we should worry too much about translating
<slickymasterWork> + 't 
<knome> generally, the list for new potential contributors should be:
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<knome> xubuntu-docs
<knome> "core" functionality apps
<knome> anything you use
<knome> so, if they use gmb, they should translate that
<slickymasterWork> yeah, those two fall under that last category
<knome> but since they should translate docs and other apps first... even listing gmb is a bit meh :)
<knome> if they've went ahead and translated docs + the core apps, then they probably know how to find out how to translate X
<knome> or know where to ask
<slickymasterWork> we can add them to the pad as eventual potential ones and wait on ochosi's pov
<knome> yeah, but i don't want to list $every_app_in_the_world
<knome> ;]
<knome> but sure, we can consider them...
<slickymasterWork> at least pidgin should get the benefit of doubt
<knome> yep
<knome> that
<knome> ...
<knome> that's the most likely one for inclusion
<knome> by far
<knome> otoh, i think it might again be a bit redundant, because pidgin is very widely used
<knome> in the sense that it's not only xfce/xubuntu users interested in it
<slickymasterWork> I see your point knome and agree with it, but I'm think in the perspective of newly come into xubuntu/linux ecosystem users 
<knome> yep
<knome> but then the xubuntu team can't be considered responsible for taking that translating burden alone
<slickymasterWork> that's also correct
<ochosi> knome: oh, that's a long discussion. i'm about to leave the office, i'll read it @home
<knome> ochosi, yep
<slickymasterWork> it's a matter of balance
<knome> no hurry with it, it's both release-independent and not critical
<slickymasterWork> just food for thought ochosi 
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Also, pretty sure that wasn't a question, but yeah core.html was removed when you added all the content to a page on the site, but it never had a application listing.
<slickymasterWork> yeah Unit193, it wasn't
<slickymasterWork> and yes I knew it wasn't a list, that wasn't the point., afterwards 
<slickymasterWork> I remembered that you had it removed after I added the content to the site
<slickymasterWork> anywas, thanks for taking the time to answer on that
<slickymasterWork> s/anywas/anywayÂ´
<Unit193> :D
<slickymasterWork> heading home, cy later ->
<BrunoAssis> Hi guys, i'd like to start contributing to the project as a Developer, can anybody give me some intro?
<BrunoAssis> I've already subscribed to the mailing list
<knome> hey BrunoAssis 
<knome> what area are you interested in developing?
<BrunoAssis> Well, i was thinking of improving the UI, but not limited to.
<knome> ok, so what in the UI you think needs improving?
<BrunoAssis> Transitions about windows, Icons, the file explorer interface 
<knome> right, then that's more into the artwork side to the things
<BrunoAssis> For example, why not implement the transitions from OSX to linux
<knome> uhm, you mean visual effects?
<knome> there are several compositors and pieces of software that do stuff like that; the xubuntu team mostly believes visual effects get into the way, so we haven't enabled those
<BrunoAssis> Yes! I want to bring a good design, a good UI to linux, as we have in OSX and Windows, and always trying to keep a good performance.
<knome> (nor do we want to sacrifice the performance for those)
<BrunoAssis> Ok, ahm, do you have any special needs at the moment?
<knome> we're very late in the cycle, so not for 14.10
<BrunoAssis> I don't know if my skills can be useful for xubuntu, maybe help XFCE developers instead?
<knome> there are some ongoing projects (like a GUI for a panel configuration switcher)..
<knome> ..however, i think you should start with something that scratches your itch
<knome> we work closely with xfce, so sure, depending what you are interested in
<knome> what programming languages are you familiar with?
<BrunoAssis> PHP, JAVA, C#, and (C/C++ , although i'm not expert in C/C++  i have developed few applications for graduation purposes) 
<knome> xfce is written in C, so that's a start
<knome> are there any bugs that specifically annoy you in xfce components?
<BrunoAssis> humm, yeah, i will, look for some information about XFCE to get a position of what i'm gonna do
<BrunoAssis> I actually enjoy XFCE, but i'm a developer
<BrunoAssis> i want to bring linux close to Windows users.
<BrunoAssis> *closer
<knome> i would start by fixing bugs you experience yourself, then start moving towards implemeting new features
<knome> you always have to remember that not everybody agrees on the direction projects should take
<BrunoAssis> Yes, that's because i'm here, learning about it!
<BrunoAssis> I'm a completely newbie on this matter, so.. as you can see, i'm gathering opinions to help me out to define which path i'm gonna take
<knome> sure, understood, and it's a good way to start by communicating
<ali1234> we need code audits
<ali1234> especially thunar, there's loads of silly stuff in there
<BrunoAssis> good, code audit is interesting! 
<BrunoAssis> One more doubt that maybe you could help, i want to build the installation of xubuntu from scratch, i mean, download the source-code, compiling it, making an ISO and then installing, is there a tutorial or some stuff that can help me with this?
<Noskcaj> BrunoAssis, To compile all of xubuntu from scratch, you'll need a few days for it all to compile, and it seems harder than is worthwhile
<Noskcaj> WEEEOOOW
<ali1234> Noskcaj: what's this thunar crash about?
<knome> hey ali1234 :)
<Noskcaj> ali1234, I pressed the up directory button many times, and it crashed
<ali1234> well yeah :)
<ali1234> did it crash before or after reaching the root directory?
<ali1234> were you in a gvfs filesystem?
<Noskcaj> before
<Noskcaj> ext4, it got to ~/Jackson
<ali1234> when you say "many times" do you mean you were clicking it continuously as fast as possible?
<Noskcaj> Oops, just ~/
<Noskcaj> yeah
<knome> Noskcaj, thunar is not a cookie clicker game!!
<Noskcaj> I've had the problem for a few months, i thought i'd already reported it
<knome> ;)=
<Noskcaj> knome, I've got a script for cookie clicker, but that's unrelated :)
<ali1234> how deep were you when you started clicking?
<Noskcaj> about 10 folders deep from root
<ali1234> and how complex was the dir structure? was it like, "bottom of linux kernel tree" or something?
<Noskcaj> Random stuff from inside a packaging svn
<knome> Noskcaj, putting effort in important things in life, and so on :)
<Noskcaj> yeah
<Noskcaj> :)
<knome> Noskcaj, but yeah, cheating is the only way to keep those games interesting at least for 5 minutes.
<ali1234> sounds like a race condition with queueing the "up" requests
<knome> i guess one debug step would be to try if that happens when bashing backspace :)
<ali1234> yeah. also, does it happen outside the homedir?
<knome> or does that simply go back in history? *shrugs*
<ali1234> going back in history may trigger it too
<knome> because history and directory structure are different things
<knome> yeah, but history does not have to queue the filesystem in the same way as "go to parent dir"
<ali1234> yeah but the thing that handles changing directory may not be
<knome> that made no sense...
<Noskcaj> ali1234, I'll let you know if it happens again, but it's hard to reproduce the issue
<knome> i use backspace and sometimes bash it, but don't remember seeing that issue
<ali1234> yeah... cannot reproduce
<ali1234> i created a directory tree 100 levels deep with 100 files in each level, then remapped left click to the mousewheel to be able to click impossibly fast. and spammed clicks all the way up that directory tree
<ochosi> ali1234: any idea how the present extension support is going in graphics drivers? i haven't really followed this anymore recently...
<ali1234> it hasn't changed
<ochosi> so still little/no support?
<ali1234> we don't even get xorg 1.16 until utopic
<ochosi> right, but utopic is kinda around the corner
<ali1234> nvidia still has made no indications of supporting it
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> knome, slickymaster: i read through your discussion now, i agree that the section of the XDS might not be super helpful
<ochosi> err, XSD
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> and yeah, we might want to rethink that along with what -core and -translateable means to us
<knome> i guess the burning question is if you wnat to try to make it useful, or simply drop it
<knome> i personally don't know what we would use such a list for
<ochosi> yeah, i'm not sure it's the best place for such a list
<knome> it seems like, as i said, a way to protect a young project from completely wacked ideas
<ochosi> i wouldn't mind setting up a list of the packages we consider "important" to xubuntu
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> feels like it
<ochosi> not sure we really need it anymore
<knome> i'm sure all of the team agrees that, for example, xfdesktop4 is an important part of xubuntu...
<ochosi> so personally i'd keep the "unsuitable" section, but replace the other one with a simple general statement
<ochosi> without listing the individual components
<knome> i'd just drop the "core" section
<knome> xubuntu-core communicates that to some extent already
<knome> it's not exactly the same, but it's close
<ochosi> i mean as you said, these things are quite obvious
<ochosi> at least to people who know what xfce is
<ochosi> nice that there's still leafpad, this must be a rather ancient section
<knome> those who don't do not contribute to xubuntu anyway :)
<knome> it's not actually
<knome> remember we shipped leafpad for a moment?
<knome> then returned to mousepad once it was fixed
<ochosi> yeah, but i thought leafpad was kinda a predecessor at some point
<knome> yes
<knome> it is
<ochosi> i know we shipped it for one release or so because mousepad broke in some way (can't remember aymore)
<knome> yep, iirc something about printing or so
<ochosi> feels though that this list is older
<knome> yes, the body of it comes from 2009
 * pleia2 frowns at iso tracker
<pleia2> wish these images came out sooner
<knome> :)
<pleia2> oh, thursday is a holiday and I won't be around
<knome> right
<knome> i guess i can handle the news stuff
<knome> at least website + twitter
<knome> and we probably should start gathering release notes soon too
<pleia2> yeah, I can look those over tomorrow and wednesday as needed
<knome> oh, we can just base that on beta 1 announcement, awesome
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-23
<bluesabre> what did I miss?
<knome> nothing i guess
<bluesabre> I saw the translations pad
<bluesabre> anything for release notes, or are we doing those on the site?
<knome> a pad would be good i guess
<bluesabre> looks like beta is not on the iso tracker yet :(
<knome> i thought pleia2 was downloading the ISOs but maybe i misunderstood
<pleia2> no, that's why I was frowning
<knome> aha
<elfy> images building shortly 
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre knome - http://pad.ubuntu.com/b2notes
<ochosi> morning everyone
<knome> oi elfy 
<knome> hai ochosi 
<ochosi> hey folks
<slickymasterWork> Unit193 can you check something, please?
<slickymasterWork> the docs aren't displaying the translators credits
<ochosi> i'm a bit busy today, but if any of you could ping me when the b2 iso is available, that'd be great
<slickymasterWork> if that end up happening ochosi, I'll do it gladly
<slickymasterWork> knome: ^^ about the translation credits
<knome> yes, noted the comment
<knome> and boo
<slickymasterWork> don't boo Unit193!!!
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<slickymasterWork> knome, still re: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-apps-translations there's one other app I remembered that might be included as 'Used by Xubuntu' which is Gigolo. What do you think?
<slickymasterWork> I know it's just a GUI frontend for mount, but nonetheless 
<knome> gigolo is an xfce project
<slickymasterWork> ?! isn't it debian?
<knome> nope, part of the xfce goodies package
<slickymasterWork> ok, we're always learning :)
<bluesabre> morning folks
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> sucks that we are alphabetically last in line
<knome> heh
<knome> i guess it also saves us some headache
<knome> if images are obviously bad, we don't even get testing before that so there's no false alarms
<bluesabre> thats true
<knome> it'd suck to be edubuntu ;)
<slickymasterWork> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning slickymasterWork
<bluesabre> how are things?
<slickymasterWork> alright
<slickymasterWork> hope that you you too
<slickymasterWork> - one you :P
<bluesabre> yeah, its morning so I'm sneezing endlessly for a while, other than that, things are great... I actually got 7 hours of sleep last night :D
<knome> i got like 5 hours good sleep
<knome> then wife called from work and meh
<knome> :P
<slickymasterWork> allergies due to the beginning of autumn 
<slickymasterWork> ?
<bluesabre> yeah, I think so
<slickymasterWork> bummer 
<knome> better that than something worse
<slickymasterWork> yeah, like having to work every day and not being able to surf instead :P
<knome> ahahah
<bluesabre> elfy: so we still have all these issues with the final beta, and it affects all flavors?
<bluesabre> hadn't realized it, but looks like the isos are up
<ochosi> they are?
<bluesabre> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/324/builds/80014/downloads - http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/324/builds/80015/downloads
 * ochosi downloads
<bluesabre> yesssss, virtualbox loaded without vt-switching
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/324/builds beta 2 images are up
<knome> slickymasterWork, heh, too late
<knome> 14:11  bluesabre: hadn't realized it, but looks like the isos are up
<knome> 14:12  ochosi: they are?
<knome> 14:17 Â» slickymasterWork [c28ceece@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.140.238.206] has  quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<knome> 14:23  bluesabre: 
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/324/builds/80014/downloads - 
<knome> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/324/builds/80015/downloads
<knome> awwh stupid paste
<ochosi> thanks for the ping though :)
<knome> 14:25 * ochosi downloads
<ochosi> knome: and thanks for the stupid paste ;)
<bluesabre> pingggggg
<slickymasterWork> damn stupid connectivity I have at work :P 
<slickymasterWork> always getting timeouts
<ochosi> 14.10 looks extremely perrrty by default :D
<ochosi> nice work everyone!
<bluesabre> did vbox work without a hitch for you as well?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> elfy ^
<ochosi> only issue i saw was the black ubiquity wallpaper issue
<bluesabre> yup, that one is still hanging around
<bluesabre> hopefully when this install finishes, lightdm will also work correctly
<ochosi> not too sure what's up with that. in the past it was a matter of the ubiquity background setting code, iirc
<bluesabre> I think its something that just has to break one per cycle
<ochosi> :]
<bluesabre> ochosi: don't forget to report your installation on the tracker ;)
<ochosi> sure, already have the page open ;)
<bluesabre> lightdm issue is still there
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1371651 in case you missed it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1371651 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Daily does not boot into graphical interface after installation" [Critical,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> gotta run now, bbl
<elfy> knome: it'd be great to be edubuntu ... nothing to do till 16.04 ;)
<knome> lol
<ochosi> right, yeah, looks like i got the lightdm bug too
<elfy> ochosi: if it's vm and one person's got it I would hope everyone does :)
<ochosi> sure
<elfy> I'll check it all out later on hardware as well
<ochosi> so well, i can confirm the two known issues
<ochosi> and the rest seems fine
<ochosi> other than the installed version not working, it's all fine :D
<elfy> yea - everything has been good except those things for ages :)
<elfy> ind plugin is crashing again 
<elfy> bbl
<jjfrv8> Not sure if I have a new bug or not.  After 64-bit install, I get a black screen and can't do anything. After power off/on, get a kernel panic screen.
<jjfrv8> 32-bit and live are okay.  This is on hardware.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: that black screen on boot is lightdm failing, it's known
<ochosi> in vms it happens with 32bit too
<jjfrv8> But shouldn't I be able to switch out of it?
<GridCube> wich iso is more crucial to test, i think i can download at least one
<knome> GridCube, check the ISO tracker and see which has less tests done
<knome> FWIW, it seems likely there will be rebuilds.
<GridCube> oh, well, i started the amd64 download, lets see if it ends before i leave work
<elfy> ochosi: if you've input all your test results to the tracker and "<ochosi> other than the installed version not working, it's all fine :D" how come you've not failed the test?
<ochosi> elfy: maybe i've not paid enough attention when filling out the test
<elfy> jjfrv8: go to vt1 and start the lightdm service - if it works then it's the same bug everyone is seeing
<elfy> ochosi: ok - definitely a fail?
<ochosi> well live session and install went fine
<ochosi> only post-install didn't
<elfy> the boot into the install failed yes? 
<ochosi> yup, adding that one now
<elfy> I've done it 
<elfy> edited your pass one to a critical fail
<ochosi> k, ty
<elfy> welcome - just wanted to make sure it was a fail :)
<xubuntu95w> Quick Question:  Are the daylies still b0rked or can they be installed?
<slickymasterWork> xubuntu95w: both
<slickymasterWork> they're still borked but they can be installed
<slickymasterWork> xubuntu95w: Bug #1371651 is still present
<ubottu> bug 1371651 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Daily does not boot into graphical interface after installation" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371651
<slickymasterWork> so after installation you'd have to go to vt1 and start the lightdm service
<xubuntu95w> ok. Better Question:  Would it be better to install the B1 and let the upgrade take effect or install the daylies (b)rked as they are? :)
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> so besides the manual starting of lightdm service theres any other issue i should check?
<slickymasterWork> if you're planning on something other than testing I wouldn't advise you eithrt
<xubuntu95w> huh, I use autologin, so do I really care about lightdm?
<slickymasterWork> s/ either
<xubuntu95w> I can wait.
<GridCube> elfy, the manual boot counts as a non-pass?
<slickymasterWork> GridCube: just do the Post-install testcase and if you have same time you can do any of the http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases ones
<slickymasterWork> yes GridCube, if you have to manually force the boot
<GridCube> alright
<GridCube> slickymaster, i don't have the time to test those all, is there any particular one that needs reviewing?
<GridCube> i like the new wallpaper :D
<slickymasterWork> the ones in  Testsuite A GridCube ~
<GridCube> P: i would like to see a version of it with the ears pointing the other side too
<slickymasterWork> yeah, knome did a fabulous job on it
<GridCube> :)
<elfy> GridCube: yea - manually having to start the boot is a fail - the bug is a critical bug too :)
<GridCube> done
<Unit193> slickymaster: https://unit193.net/xubuntu/fi/ln-idp27021812.html - https://unit193.net/xubuntu/pt/ln-idp27648076.html
<slickymaster> yes, Unit193, but they're not showing up niether in yesterday daily and today's beta
<slickymaster> lol, knome is a great pt transÃ§ator
<slickymaster> * translator
<knome> very much
 * slickymaster doesn't doubt knome's language skills
 * slickymaster goes back to the kitchen to finish dinner
<elfy> or finnish it
<knome> ;)
<elfy> re testcases - I have no way to do entire or resize tests on hardware, so if someone else does - tia :)
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hello ochosi 
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<knome> Unit193, talk to me :P
<knome> Unit193, why aren't the translator credits working?
<slickymaster> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> wow, everybody's here :)
<knome> my mum isn't.
<Unit193> knome: "I don't know translation stuff" is all I can figure out so far, everything looks good.
<knome> Unit193, did you run a ISO test today?
<Unit193> knome: Finishing up now, why?
<knome> just wondering if you can confirm they worked or not
<slickymaster> you won't see the credits on that iso Unit193 
<knome> then why is that?
<knome> is there something wrong in the build?
<Unit193> Right, I know it fails, have it in the utopic system now.  Just saying, that the buildlog and deps all look right.
<knome> i mean, at build time
<slickymaster> something went wrong for sure knome 
<knome> right
<Unit193> I know where it fails, but not why.
<knome> Unit193, will you look at it?
<knome> aha :)
<knome> tell me if i can help.
<Unit193> Sure, TEXTDOMAIN/LANGUAGE vars are failing to take affect.
<ochosi> knome: wait, was that a "my mum"-joke?
<knome> ochosi, a mix between that and reality.
<ochosi> knome: you're weird :)
<knome> well my mum is weird.
<slickymaster> lol ochosi there are worst 
<knome> there are worse or they are the worst?
<slickymaster> you choose knome 
<knome> :P
<Unit193> knome: On a utopic system?
<knome> Unit193, nope, but if VM is ok, then tomorrow
<Unit193> If you know what's missing for those vars, or if something is broken in utopic. :P
<knome> why would i know that? :P
<Unit193> You know weird stuff. :D
<Unit193> === Xubuntu community meeting in 20 minutes @ #xubuntu-devel ===
<Unit193> knome: Yeah, missing dep it looks like.
<knome> Unit193, which dep?
<Unit193> Something that's installed on a normal install.
<knome> aren't utopic installs normal installs? :P
<elfy> no
<elfy> a normal install boots to a desktop knome :p
<knome> hah
<Unit193> knome: vs buildd chroot.
<Unit193> elfy: So, do you have to start lightdm every boot?
<knome> well i don't understand much of that ;)
<bluesabre9> freenode webchat is having some serious issues today
<ochosi> oh meh, but hi bluesabre9 :)
<Unit193> bluesabre9: kiwi?
<elfy> Unit193: in a vm on an install done since the bug appeared - yes
<Unit193> Aha, just asked as second boot was using that other init, and didn't have the problem.
<bluesabre8> maybe now
<elfy> Unit193: so systemd boots ok?
<Unit193> elfy: Yeppers, though didn't try to swich first boot after install.
<elfy> k
<elfy> useful information :)
<bluesabre0> alrighty
<knome> many blue sabres
<Unit193> So we can duel.
<bluesabre0> yes
<elfy> Unit193: thanks for that snippet :)
<Unit193> elfy: Sure thing.
<Unit193> Not 100% sure it helps, as I'm already using out of repo sources.
<elfy> well it works on one I installed an hour ago
<Unit193> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<Unit193> #chair ochosi knome
<Unit193> Howdy and welcome to the Xubuntu community meeting.  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep 23 20:00:35 2014 UTC.  The chair is Unit193. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 knome ochosi
<elfy> pfft
<pleia2> o/
<bluesabre0> o/
<slickymaster> o/
<knome> o/
<ochosi> o/
<bluesabre0> connection is shaky, but I'm here
<Unit193> Think that's everyone.
<Unit193> #topic Open action items
<Unit193> So we have: Review artwork for UIF  that done then?
<ochosi> yup
<knome> yep
<Unit193> So, do we #done that?
<knome> if you wish, or just not mention it
<ochosi> yeah, let's just never speak of this again ;)
<Unit193> Then: marketing team to support Xfce's bug bounty program by informing people via website and social media
<ochosi> i did see something about that on g+
<ochosi> pleia2?
<Unit193> I remember seeing something earlier this week on that.
<pleia2> oh yes, that's done
<pleia2> #done marketing team social mediaed the bounty program
<slickymaster> lol
<Unit193> Yey!
<Unit193> #topic Team updates
<Unit193> Free for all.
<knome> there was somebody whining about that in twitter
<elfy> awesome - we get a new word too :)
<knome> the bounty program, not team updates
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Recent uploads?
<knome> they were concerned that "rich people" just get their feature requests landed and it makes xubuntu less equal..
<bluesabre0> recent uploads: xubuntu-artwork, xubuntu-default-settings, xubuntu-docs
<Unit193> Heh, that's upstream Xfce, not really Xubuntu feature requests.
<knome> Unit193, yes.
<Unit193> bluesabre0: #info ?
<pleia2> #info marketing team created a Donations page for folks who want to know how to finacially support Xubuntu http://xubuntu.org/donations/
<ochosi> knome: really? i guess i should get a twitter account one day...
<knome> #info ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu was updated for 14.10
<bluesabre0> #info recent uploads: xubuntu-artwork, xubuntu-default-settings, xubuntu-docs, catfish, menulibre, light-locker-settings
<slickymaster> pink ftw
<Unit193> elfy: Anything from QA?
<elfy> yep
<ochosi> #info Everything is now pink!
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<ochosi> ;)
<elfy> #info Core Testing - that's worked out nicely and we've had more reports for that than beta 1
<Unit193> Wow.
<ochosi> \o/
<ochosi> congrats Unit193 and elfy 
<knome> #info 14.10 installations on virtual machines are still broken, QA team looks into it
<elfy> # Beta 2 testing - currently everyone is having problems with lightdm - possibly going to get some respins
<knome> yes, good work!
<elfy> BUT
<elfy> I do not want that to stop people testing - it's not an excuse for team to not test
<elfy> I hope we get better reports from us for this beta
<elfy> #info Elfy will be cross
<ochosi> :}
<bluesabre0> haha
<ochosi> well first we need betas that run post-install i guess
<elfy> #action Team to test beta regardless of lightdm issue - it can be booted to desktop afterwards - workaround is on the mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: Team to test beta regardless of lightdm issue - it can be booted to desktop afterwards - workaround is on the mailing list
<slickymaster> I don't see a reason why post-install shouldn't be runned
<Unit193> elfy: You seem to have missed '#info'.
<knome> elfy, i've zsynced stuff and scheduled time for tomorrow, so unless something really critical work-related pops up..
<bluesabre0> any word from lightdm folks about a possible fix before thursday?
<knome> slickymaster, s/runned/ran/
<elfy> bluesabre0: I've not asked
<slickymaster> yeah
<bluesabre0> ok
<ochosi> bluesabre0: last time i looked, robert was still asking for logs
<elfy> knome: yea - I understand - but we've got till Thursday evening - tomorrow is only Wednesday
<knome> bluesabre0, we've been talking about this in #ubuntu-quality, so people know our concerns...
<ochosi> which seemingly aren't there
<knome> elfy, yes, about thursday i'm not so sure so better do something tomorrow ;)
<elfy> ochosi: you can't get lightdm logs at the point of fail
<bluesabre0> yeah, no logs are generated
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> isn't that what i said? :)
<knome> somebody said lightdm wasn't even starting in ubuntu
<ochosi> at least we're not the only ones...
<elfy> ochosi: you said thaqt when I was typing 
<elfy> :)
<knome> ochosi, repetitio mater studiorum est
<elfy> knome: lightdm in vm isn't starting for anyone 
<ochosi> knome: right, and variatio delectat (i.e. say it in as many ways as possible)
<elfy> #info lightdm bug only appears to be affecting vm's
<knome> ochosi, and: quod scripsi, scripsi (elfy's reply)
<ochosi> knome: hehe, let's continue the latin-battle post-meeting
<knome> elfy, i mean if it's not starting, how could it produce logs :D
<elfy> oh right 
<elfy> anyway - all from me for now :)
<Unit193> Alright.  That it for team updates?  Seems the discussion iteams were talked about last time, need to rehash still?
<knome> unless it was crashing at startup
<ochosi> elfy: if i'm not mistaken, jjfrv8 said he also saw it on one of two hw installs
<knome> hr hr :|
<elfy> oh one more thing from me 
<elfy> #info b2 tests - hardware entire and auto-resize are priority if possible 
<knome> i *might* be able to run one
<elfy> knome: I don't see any reports from jjfrv8 re fails 
<knome> elfy, i wasn't the one who said that
<elfy> knome: ack
<knome> but i saw jjfrv8 saying that
<elfy> well it's not reported as such
<knome> 16:06  jjfrv8: Not sure if I have a new bug or not.  After 64-bit install, I get a black screen and can't do anything. After power off/on, get a kernel panic screen.
 * skellat checks in rather late for the meeting
<bluesabre0> no extra machines for me atm...
<slickymaster> but he didn't report any failures in the tracker
<knome> wait, you saw it as well elfy..
<knome> aha
<elfy> yea saw that
<Unit193> Same here, bluesabre0.
<elfy> but I'm not going to remember all that people say when I'm not here - I'll be working from the tracker :)
<knome> fair engouh
<knome> enough too
<bluesabre0> :)
<ochosi> yeah, i agree, ppl should report their tests
<knome> jack usually reports, so maybe that was some kind of mistake
<elfy> knome: yep agreed 
<ochosi> elfy: i don't have an extra computer at the moment, so auto-resize and entire won't be doable for me on hw
<elfy> I think if people are seeing lightdm fails in hardware it's really important to note it in the bug 
<elfy> ochosi: same here - the one I usually use is dead atm
<knome> elfy, i guess one more bug to file against the tracker... notifications per product
<elfy> not sure I understand - but we could have 5 mins later if you've time
<Unit193> Alright, so if there are no objections, I believe we'll move on.
<elfy> wfm
<Unit193> #topic Discussion items
<Unit193> #subtopic Review and discuss default configuration
<bluesabre0> I think thats done and over with... unless there are any other complaints?
<Unit193> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: SUBTOPIC
<Unit193> #subtopic QA Incentives
<knome> yeah, that's fine.
<elfy> has anyone anything else to add to that discussion?
<Unit193> Agenda had further discussion on that one, so figured might be.
<knome> qa incentives?
<skellat> Nothing at this point from my end so far
<ochosi> elfy: wanna #info the link to the pad again?
<elfy> knome: http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive 
<elfy> ochosi: :p
<knome> i think it's a good idea as long as we clearly decide what we will be offering and make sure we have the resources to get those.
<elfy> #info http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive
<ochosi> well line 39 still needs and answer imo
<ochosi> just to know how far we would get and how soon we would have to think of new ways to get funding
<knome> i'd say 3-4 cycles.
<knome> depending how much stickers we can get for free during that period
<knome> plus the books
<pleia2> stickers and books are pretty much immediately available, t-shirts take longer
<knome> yes
<skellat> Pursuant to all sorts of US federal regulations, I have to formally stipulate that I am not giving tax advice or tax law counsel with respect to any discussion of financial matters.
<skellat> That being said, we do need to ensure that while we do this we do not also create any liabilities for anybody.  It may be a small amount of money now but planning ahead is appropriate.
<skellat> Besides, can we do some other form of trinket like ink pens in addition to stickers?
<skellat> Or even key fobs?
<pleia2> can add ideas to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects
<knome> unixstickers.com currently handles the stickers, so if we wanted some other office stuff, we'd need to get a vendor
<pleia2> but finding high quality vendors is a whole process
<knome> yes, especially considering the shipping can't be $50 to europe.
<knome> or the US.
<skellat> That's why I wanted to throw the ideas out there
<bluesabre0> yeah, looking at you ubuntu store
<knome> pleia2, do you still have the ping-pong-ball machine?
<elfy> I'd be inclined to stick with what we have for the moment and carry on thinking - we can always add later
<ochosi> weeee, ping-pong balls
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> as a conclusion,
<ochosi> i agree
<elfy> it's more about recognition in my opinion than what it is physically
<knome> i think it's ok to give away anything as prizes that are official marketing assets
<knome> yes, that
<pleia2> I do
<elfy> you do what?
<pleia2> have the ping pong ball machine!
<knome> pleia2, then that's one relatively cheap option.
<elfy> pleia2: aah
<knome> i can even make custom SVG's with winner names or sth
<pleia2> not in terms of my time :) and I don't know how to ship them
<knome> pleia2, right, that of course... feel free to opt-out :)
<pleia2> it's kind of a finicky thing
<knome> pleia2, put in bubble-wrap, ship
<knome> if it breaks, ship again
<knome> :D
<elfy> without the needle the second time
<pleia2> hehe
<bluesabre0> haha
<knome> maybe we could look into printing onto balloons :PP
<knome> those would be easier to ship
<elfy> not sure he'd like that knome 
<knome> not inflated, that is
<skellat> But would Mr. Skaggs be okay with being printed on?
<knome> i'm sure he'd do that for the community.
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre0> :D
<knome> anyway, let's move on
<elfy> yep
<Unit193> #topic Announcements
<Unit193> #info Beta 2 on the 25th
<elfy> if we're lucky
<skellat> #info skellat remains on AskUbuntu patrol and even brought up an issue there relative to our flavor: http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/11946/tagging-xubuntu-when-ubuntu-is-meant
<Unit193> Anyone?
<elfy> no announcements from here
<bluesabre0> any freezes around the corner?
<bluesabre0> nope, not really
<knome> nope
<skellat> bluesabre0, I think the Kernel team have one coming up
<Unit193> Next one is final, so that'll be a bit.
<knome> next freeze is final freeze on oct 16
<knome> heh
<knome> fwiw,
<slickymaster> on october, 9 -> kernel freeze
<knome> #info All affecting freezes are added to the team calendar at http://xubuntu.org/team-calendar/
<knome> slickymaster, not affecting us
<Unit193> At least directly.  So who's next for the meeting?
<elfy> slickymaster 
<knome> slickymaster, want to schedule now?
<elfy> might be useful to have one next week post beta
<slickymaster> nopes, not yet
<skellat> #info Questions that need answering if people are not busy: http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/xubuntu
<knome> elfy, yep.
<Unit193> #action slickymaster to schedule the next meeting.
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to schedule the next meeting.
<knome> slickymaster, once you are ready, ping me and i'll add it to the calendar
<slickymaster> thanks knome, but there's no need, I can do it
<ochosi> nice
<Unit193> Any objections?
<knome> slickymaster, oki!
<knome> nope
<Unit193> #endmeeting
<Unit193> Thanks for being here.
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep 23 20:42:03 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-09-23-20.00.moin.txt
<elfy> thanks Unit193 :)
<slickymaster> thanks Unit193 
<pleia2> thanks Unit193 
<bluesabre0> thanks Unit193, nice meeting
<bluesabre0> :D
<bluesabre0> bbl
<knome> ta
<Unit193> Welcome.
<Unit193> So I'm only to send a stub, not the actual summary to the list?
<ochosi> thanks Unit193 
<knome> either works from my POV
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-September/010422.html
<elfy> night all
<Unit193> G'night.
<knome> nighty elfy 
<Unit193> bluesabre: FYI. Standards-version 3.9.6 was released, but I believe Ubuntu is going to generally follow .5 for utopic: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/upgrading-checklist
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-24
<BrunoAssis> hello guys, i have noticed some freezing/other issues on 14.04 LTS, is there a place i can report those problems?
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks for the pointer
<Noskcaj> Did anyone else's theme turn purple today? something broke mine
<Unit193> Heh, that was the Unicorn surprise for Lyz.
<bluesabre> gtk-theme-config to easily enable/disable the pink
<Unit193> Didn't for me on upgrade, but meh.
<bluesabre> well... it *should* work
<bluesabre> :_
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> haha, people think it's a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1373280
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1373280 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Pink background on selected items" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> can it be reverted easily?
<brainwash> the color override affects every gtk theme, right?
<brainwash> the gtk3 one would be even visible in unity and so on
<brainwash> ochosi: do you want to add a comment to the report and close it? ^
<slickymasterWork> !team | I'm thinking on October, 1, 18:00 UTC for the next team meeting. Does anyone have any objection with this time frame?
<ubottu> I'm thinking on October, 1, 18:00 UTC for the next team meeting. Does anyone have any objection with this time frame?: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<lderan> none, will be able to attend that one
<slickymasterWork> hey lderan 
<lderan> hey :)
<elfy> slickymasterWork: wfm
<slickymasterWork> great elfy 
<ochosi> brainwash: done
<ochosi> wb lderan 
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: day should work, not sure about time yet
<ochosi> (no need to make this dependent on me though)
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks
<lderan> hello ochosi & elfy
<slickymasterWork> ok ochosi 
<bluesabre> ahaha, the pink bug reports have begun
<lderan> :P
<slickymasterWork> knome: ping
<knome> slickymasterWork, pong
<knome> bluesabre, really? where?
<bluesabre> the one ochosi posted https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1373280
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1373280 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Pink background on selected items" [Undecided,Invalid]
<knome> hah
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome: felt i'd answer the first so we can mark all future reports as duplicates...
<ochosi> lunchtime, yummy
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> ochosi, i was thinking very much in the same lines
<knome> bon appetit
<knome> btw, i think the cycling chair is a definitive improvement on the meetings
<knome> keeps the meetings going, allows everybody to join at least some of the time, and doesn't create the same kind of burden about even weekly meetings (i'd imagine)
<knome> the downside is that it can be a bit chaotic for new people, but that's somewhat easily overcome by just scheduling the next meeting ASAP
<bluesabre> yeah, its great
<slickymasterWork> knome I'm having a hard time to add the team meeting schedule to http://xubuntu.org/team-calendar/
<knome> slickymasterWork, what's the issue?
<slickymasterWork> no idea, I have https://www.google.com/calendar/render?cid=383qgn907l43kd425bteqjg850%40group.calendar.google.com&cid=e_2_en%23weeknum%40group.v.calendar.google.com&cid=s7uaht7f9mhsfdub4lbisebd75g30sa5%40import.calendar.google.com
<slickymasterWork> defined as public and I thought it would automatic imprted to the team calendar
<slickymasterWork> * be imported
<knome> you have what defined as public?
<knome> oh, you're not in the managing group
<knome> give me your gmail address and i'll add you
<slickymasterWork> slickymaster at g m a i l
<knome> you should now have access to manage the events
<knome> actually, now you should also have access to share the calendar, so you can add others to manage the events if they need to :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, ^ does that help you getting it in? :)
<slickymasterWork> so how do I publish it?
<knome> how do you edit the calendar?
<knome> in gmail.com ?
<knome> it shows up now.
<knome> but you probably want to switch the location/title bits :P
<knome> and note that the time is currently 17UTC, which might or might not be by design
<knome> >__<
<knome> awesome connectivity
<elfy> yep
<elfy> sucks to be a portuguese connection :p
<knome> heh
<slickymasterWork> I think it's ok now knome 
<knome> 14:25  knome: and note that the time is currently 17UTC, which might or might not be by design
<knome> did you see that?
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I was thinking about that, because I think next monday will mobe from GMT+1 to GMT, over here
<slickymasterWork> but I'm not sure, I'm going to have to find that out
<knome> ok
<knome> well just that you know, the calendar and the meetings page is out of sync
<knome> basically once the event is in the calendar, it has entered the GMT/UTC timezone and won't change based on daylight savings
<slickymasterWork> well we're going to be straight GMT just on October, 26th
<knome> yep, i understand it'll affect you
<knome> but please don't tell this on the calendar and the other on the wiki, that just confuses people more :)
<slickymasterWork> lol, one daylight hour less when surfing :P
<elfy> can't the gmail thingy just use UTC 
<elfy> did when I did it for Fridge
<knome> elfy, there is no "UTC" to be selected unfortunately
<knome> elfy, but the GMT implementation they are using is practically UTC
<elfy> dtupid
<knome> because GMT *does* have DST's, but gmail's GMT doesn't
<elfy> GMT is GMT - UK is GMT and then BST when necessary
<knome> except in google-world
<slickymasterWork> corrected now
<knome> i know, it really is stupid
<elfy> oic you meant GGMT 
<elfy> :)
<knome> yep
<knome> but yeah.. as long as you remmeber to mentally do s/GMT/UTC/ when looking at google calendars, it's all ok
<elfy> I guess most will look at agenda anyway
<knome> who knows
<knome> i think the calendar view is very useful
<elfy> if the time's right ... 
<elfy> :p
<knome> and when i'm not chairing, i usually don't need to look at the agenda before the meeting
<knome> because i either know if there's something i need to prepare for, or it's good to go without too much preparing
<knome> the agenda is useful for a very different reason and usecase :) 
<jjfrv8> elfy, never mind on my question from yesterday.  Wasn't a bug after all.
<elfy> jjfrv8: thanks 
<GridCube> how much time is left to finish the documentation translations?
<GridCube> im trying to get the oficial translators to review our suggestions but they are not responding
<elfy> GridCube: not sure if that's covered by the language pack translation deadline - if it is that's october 16th week
<GridCube> i remember something about october on the mail a few weeks ago, so it must be
<GridCube> our translation is now over 80% for sure, but its not accepted
<elfy> there are 2 language freezes - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<GridCube> mmhm
<GridCube> well, ill try to get the people to review it as soon as they can
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you want to build a snowman.. ehm, fix some package dependencies? http://lpaste.net/111559
<brainwash> bug 1320560 needs some testing, anyone interested?
<ubottu> bug 1320560 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "Removal of gdmflexiserver breaks user switching" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320560
<brainwash> nothing crucial, because the default xubuntu desktop setup is not affected
<Unit193> `gdmflexiserver` still exists for GDM.
<Unit193> libgdm1  to be precise.
<brainwash> and how does it work?
<Unit193> I comment because at least https://launchpadlibrarian.net/185077517/xscreensaver_5.26-1ubuntu2_5.26-1ubuntu3.diff.gz removes flex.  I don't know, Gnome is the one that uses GDM.
<Unit193> ubuntu-gnome-desktop even seeds it.
<brainwash> gnome... we don't care about that, do we? we need something that works with lightdm
<Unit193> All of those packages though are xfce, or xscreensaver.  It's nice to give people options, but the chances that'll be a problem are slightly lower, yeah.
<Unit193> I'd think it'd be easy enough to add support without removing, but maybe not, so..
<brainwash> without removing what?
<Unit193> Support for gdm.
<brainwash> that's just a minor drawback
<brainwash> other display managers or user switching methods aren't support either
<brainwash> supported
<brainwash> would you prefer a solution similar to xflock4?
<brainwash> check which dm is running and invoke the according user switch call
<Unit193> That's actually what xscreensaver-wrapper.sh seems to do, and how lxsession does it too.
<elfy> evening 
<Unit193> I'm not *that* invested, just figured I'd point out that gdmflexiserver does exist for gdm, I don't use it either.
<Unit193> elfy: Howdy.
<brainwash> Unit193: ok, wanna add a comment to the report then? your info might be relevant
<zequence> Are you having problems installing Utopic on VirtualBox?
<elfy> zequence: yea - known issue
<zequence> elfy: Ok, thanks
<elfy> bug 1371651
<ubottu> bug 1371651 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Daily does not boot into graphical interface after installation" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1371651
<elfy> you *can* boot it, it just won't do it without mucking about :)
<elfy> zequence: that is assuming you've found the same thing - livesession works - install works - boot into install fails
<zequence> elfy: I've already forgotten if I had a problem last. Just remember it worked. Will be do some testing tomorrow. Have a guy helping me today
<elfy> yea - it's a recent issue 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-25
<bluesabre> I think I'm going to extend the patches to support both
<bluesabre> also, good evening everyone
<bluesabre> whether I get to those packages tonight remains to be seen
<bluesabre> brainwash: not that you're around, but a fixed xfce4-settings has been pushed to utopic (will land when freeze is lifted tomorrow).  I'll be working on trusty uploads this weekend.
<bluesabre> I'll also expand the gdmflexiserver patches to first try gdmflexiserver, then dm-tool upon failure
<Unit193> Heh, alright.  xscreensaver looked like it checked what was running/installed, but anywho I'll leave how to do it up to you, if you choose. :P
<bluesabre> I'll figure it out... none of these things are as smart as they seem :)
<bluesabre> though, I might ping you this weekend Unit193, if you're around ;)
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta run again, bbl
<Unit193> Hah, you're the programmer. :P
<Unit193> Tschau.
<skellat> In light of the pinkness bug, I got out there preemptively on AskUbuntu and submitted a Question + Answer combo: http://askubuntu.com/questions/528116/why-did-my-highlights-turn-pink-in-xubuntu-14-10
<ali1234> nice
<ali1234> can we make the installer load this in a hidden iframe also? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky3Ordfqn88
<skellat> ali1234, That is pure evil
<ali1234> i'm still watching it
<Unit193> 5 minutes.
<Noskcaj> ali1234, That's worse than the 10 hour nyan cat and the 10 hour darude sandstorm
<elfy> hi Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<ochosi> morning folks
<ochosi> just subscribed ubiquity to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1365815
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1365815 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Black background on Try or Install screen" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ochosi> actually xubuntu-default-settings is not the right package anyway, the wallpaper-symlink for ubiquity is generated in xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> but i checked, we haven't changed anything there, so the location that ubiquity tries to access here should still be fine
<ochosi> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L369
<ochosi> also briefly scanned the changelog of ubiquity, but nothing caught my eye
<ochosi> so i hope xnox (or someone else) can shed some light on this
<elfy> that one is a pain - it goes, it comes back, it goes ... 
<knome> hmmh
<knome> i think i just hit the "black screen after suspend" bug the first time
<knome> let me try if i can reproduce
<knome> looks like TTY7 is black
<knome> TTY1 works
<knome> ochosi, ^
<ochosi> knome: you're on 14.04.1 and have activated the fix?
<knome> how do i specifically activate it?
<knome> i've been on 14.04.1 for some time, and this is the first time i see this bug
<knome> so i would have imagined i don't have it / have the fix activated, but...
<ochosi> just read our blog, man
<ochosi> http://xubuntu.org/news/laptop-users-fix-available-for-the-black-screen-on-unlock-bug/
<ochosi> ;)
<knome> bah, overrated!
 * knome boots
 * ochosi boots knome 
<ochosi> you know, the problem with this bug is that it's often just a problem with suspend
<ochosi> as soon as you can reproduce it, you can try 1) the fix linked above and 2) to disable l-l to be sure
<ochosi> (disabling light-locker in the sense of: disabling lock on suspend)
<knome> ochosi, yeah, TTY7 is still blank
<knome> but please understand, locking *with light-locker* has worked before
<ochosi> you mean lock-on-suspend with light-locker, i presume
<knome> yes
<knome> that :P
<knome> i'll try disabling light-locker next
<knome> just a sec...
<knome> so with light-locker disabled, what was the way to go to suspend again?
<ochosi> just disable lock on suspend, not light-locker itself
<knome> aha
<ochosi> but yeah, you can suspend any way you want (close the lid, use the logout menu)
<knome> sorry for being a bit green, it's a long time since i thought about this the last time
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> actually there could be a difference between closing the lid and using the logout menu, iirc
<ochosi> only the lid created problems
<knome> yes, i'll look into that too next
<knome> yeah, that fixes the issue
<knome> and yeah, even with lock on suspend enabled, suspending from the menu works
<ochosi> yup
<knome> now that i've pinpointed it, how can i help debug this further?
<ochosi> it's a weird bug to begin with
<ochosi> are you using all default packages of 14.04?
<ochosi> or e.g. newer versions of xfpm or ll
<knome> nope, all default
<knome> actually...
<knome> now that you mention it
<knome> i just enabled the xubuntu-dev staging PPA
<ochosi> huhu
 * knome facepalms
<knome> so is it a regression?
<ochosi> not really, but the variable names for handling the lock on suspend case in xfpm has changed
<knome> aha
<ochosi> so older versions of lls won't work with that nicely
<knome> aha
<knome> so why isn't there a new version of l-l-s in the staging PPA?
<ochosi> i wasn't all too happy with that change, since it breaks backward compatibility, but yeah, better ask bluesabre ;)
<knome> bluesabre, PING
<ochosi> oh let the guy get some sleep :)
<knome> tbe, bluesabre was the one suggesting me to install the PPA for the new mousepad :P
<knome> is there something i can manually do to make this work?
<ochosi> well you don't have to upgrade *all* packages from that PPA
<knome> no, but it's easiest that way
<ochosi> you can try to downgrade to xfpm 1.2 from 14.04
<ochosi> and then re-apply the fix as mentioned on the blog
<ochosi> or you can try to set the right variable for xfpm
<ochosi> sry, gotta get back to work now
<knome> ochosi, pinned to the version in the archive, redid the fix mentioned, but suspending with lock on suspend when closing lid is still broken
<bluesabre> :(
 * bluesabre is not a fan of this bug
<knome> nope
<bluesabre> knome: want to be an experiment?
<knome> well i obviously can/want do stuff
<bluesabre> can you re-update to the PPA version?
<knome> sure, a bit later
<knome> i need to do something for a client first
<bluesabre> the logic was flipped, and the fix worked for some, not for others...
<bluesabre> and the bug does not affect me, so I am coding in the dark...
<bluesabre> try each of the following, followed by a log out, and then back in. I want to know which setting actually fixes the issue
<bluesabre> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch -s false
<bluesabre> xfconf-query -c xfce4-power-manager -p /xfce4-power-manager/logind-handle-lid-switch -s true
<bluesabre> (do this after enabling light-locker and lock-on-suspend from l-l-s)
<bluesabre> but yeah, just some time today :)
<knome> i'll do it in ~15mins
<bluesabre> awesome
<bluesabre> I might have to release an updated light-locker-settings, and this would be really good to know before 14.10 is released :)
<knome> brb
<knome> i mean, from the laptop ->
<bluesabre> knome: do we have screenshots of simple-scan anywhere?
<knome> bluesabre, no, how?
<knome> /why?
<bluesabre> I figured out how to add minimize/maximize to headerbars
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> slight ui change... but much better for consistency
<knome> umm, does xfce4-power-manager need other packages to be able to update?
<bluesabre> -data, -plugins
<knome> pinning it back to 500 doesn't do anything
<knome> aha
<knome> what :D
<knome> only -plugins would be upgraded
<knome> this is silly...
<knome> right, wrong syntax from me
<knome> ok, let's see...
<knome> ok, first thing done
<knome> will try to suspend now
<knome> first thing failing
<bluesabre> l-l-s, things enabled, property set, and logged out after setting?
<knome> yes
<bluesabre> k
<knome> have done second thing now and will try to suspend
<bluesabre> logged out first?
<knome> yes
<knome> the second option works
<bluesabre> neat
<bluesabre> and troublesome
<knome> i remember editing some file at some point
<knome> related to power management
<bluesabre> ochosi ^ so, allowing logind to handle the lid switch works... is that correct?
<knome> where's the related logind conf files?
<bluesabre> /etc/systemd/logind.conf ?
<knome> probably..
<knome> it has #HandleSuspendkey=suspend
<bluesabre> adding this fix to xfpm made overrides in that file not matter anymore
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> or, that was the plan
<knome> well apparently, the problem in my case is when logind *doesn't* handle suspending
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> all this is confusing, and I do not know what should and should not work at this point...
<knome> as always, if there is anything i can do to help fixing it, i'm willing :)
<bluesabre> well, you figured out the setting that works for you
<knome> not just because i want my laptop's suspend to work...
<bluesabre> so that might be a start
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> i should clean my monitor
<bluesabre> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1373887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1373887 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Add minimize and maximize to GtkHeaderbars" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> bluesabre: yes, logind has to handle the lid switch
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> good to know
<bluesabre> new l-l-s coming today ;)
<ochosi> but only if lock-on-suspend is enabled ;)
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> but yeah, we've had that before
<bluesabre> where it was flipped, it was confusing
<ochosi> yeah, i never felt flipping was a really good idea
<bluesabre> well, it was a lot of reverse-logic before
<ochosi> made a confusing issue even more confusing ("are you using the version before or after the flipping..?")
<bluesabre> the setting actually makes sense now
<ochosi> right, maybe we should just write things down somewhere
<bluesabre> logind-handle-lid-switch now means "logind handle lid switch"
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> knome: thanks for testing :)
<knome> np
<knome> i understand that it's always so much easier to do that with somebody who you know, and who understands something about xubuntu
<knome> which is why i'm more than willing to help
<ochosi> do we need another +1 for the UIFe?
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you want
<bluesabre> I just subscribed ubuntu-release, so it will make it pop up in their queue
<knome> ochosi, what about the flash of content before unlocking?
<ochosi> cool
<bluesabre> I'll ping them tonight after the freeze is lifted
<knome> i proposed ochosi a hacky solution, which should work, however..
<ochosi> knome: nothing we can do about that. same thing happens with xscreensaver potentially. it's related to locking after waking up
<knome> sure, but what about my idea about the timeout?
<ochosi> what if for some reason that process of suspending gets "stuck"?
<ochosi> then you end up with a black screen
<ochosi> there are just too many pitfalls with this approach imo
<knome> the timeout should take care of that as well
<knome> because when it times out, it unblanks the screen
<ochosi> iirc your idea was to black out the screen when locking (with a black top-level window), then do suspend and on wakeup lock the screen
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<knome> yes, something like that
<ochosi> ttyl bluesabre, hf!
<knome> ta bluesabre 
<knome> and hf
<ochosi> the only real solution is to find out why suspending after the vt switch doesn't work properly
<knome> i'm not disagreeing with that :)
<knome> but how far from that are we really?
<ochosi> and it's probably not that much more work than trying to implement your hack :)
<knome> and is it possibly a hardware issue?
<knome> well then get hacking on your solution then! :P
<ochosi> that depends, if i or someone else would actually have time to spend on it, then maybe we wouldn't be too far away
<ochosi> but i don't have time atm
<knome> i understand there is no exact timeframe to give
<knome> but i was thinking about an estimation
<knome> is this affecting ubuntu as well?
<ochosi> ubuntu doesn't switch vt when locking
<knome> ok, so why do we do that?
<ochosi> gah, sorry, i really don't have time for this right now
<ochosi> -> back to work
<knome> that's okay :P
<brainwash> that's a funny question :)
<knome> ttyl
<knome> brainwash, i don't think it's funny. what in it do you think is funny?
<brainwash> light-locker requires lightdm + greeter to lock the screen
<brainwash> which starts in a new vt
<brainwash> light-locker 2.0 will hopefully get rid of the vt switching, but we don't know when it will be ready :(
<brainwash> do gtk3 apps hide the normal title bar now? if no, what is the benefit of adding minimize/maximize to gtkheaderbars?
<brainwash> maybe I'm not up-to-date
<brainwash> bug 1301873 is still open
<ubottu> bug 1301873 in Xfwm4 "Add support for title-less windows" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1301873
<knome> bbl. ->
<bluesabre> brainwash: if you're running utopic, open simple-scan
<bluesabre> CSDs work correctly in xfce now
<bluesabre> gotta run
<brainwash> how does it work correctly? who fixed that?
<bluesabre> its part of gtk 3.10 or 3.12
<bluesabre> fixed in the toolkit
<brainwash> good news I guess
<elfy> ochosi: http://pad.ubuntu.com/b2notes
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> elfy: thanks, fixed some small typos, but the rest looks good! nice work
 * bluesabre added a space
 * knome removed bluesabre's space
 * bluesabre adds more spaces, html doesn't care
<knome> waat
<knome> you make me sad
 * bluesabre fixes mistake in judgment
<knome> boo for pad adding spaces :(
<bluesabre> for vbox, its host+F1 (usually right-ctrl + F1)
<elfy> thanks bluesabre - saved me time :p
<knome> bluesabre, righty
<bluesabre> ;)
<elfy> not sure about other vm's though - hence not putting anything there 
 * knome shrugs :)
<knome> moved striked stuff at the bottom
<elfy> looks better like that :p
<elfy> ochosi: so what we going to do about marking these images
<elfy> others are marking ready regardless
<bluesabre> we should probably just mark ready... everyone else has the same issue, and I think the decision is to release now and fix lightdm after
<elfy> was my thinking 
<bluesabre> great minds...
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> I've asked the question, though <jibel> there is progress on the 'boot to black screen' issue but it wont be fixed for beta2 in another channel confirmed that thinking
<elfy> other than things we can't fix I'm happy
<elfy> a bit happier with the testing turnout 
<elfy> can't say I'm impressed though
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> its an improvement, but we can do better
<elfy> <infinity> elfy: Yeah, we're going to ignore that issue and fix it ASAP after the beta.
<elfy> I'll mark them now
<elfy> done
<elfy> draft blog post done from the pad
<knome> elfy, ta :)
<knome> elfy, please mention that in the pad
<elfy> mention what in the pad? that I'm not impressed 
<elfy> done :)
<knome> tara ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Updates got me a scroll up button, next to minimize.
<bluesabre> Unit193..? screenshot
<elfy> we got a screenshot button too :(
<elfy> oh dear
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://unit193.net/buttons.png
<bluesabre> bizarre
<elfy> I'm not seeing that - but I've customised that stuff 
<bluesabre> which wm theme?
<Unit193> Numix
<bluesabre> not seeing that even in the guest session...
<Unit193> Well that's weird, nothing changed here...  Well it's not important.
<bluesabre> does it affect your guest session or a new user? just making sure I didn't break anything
<Unit193> Bah, have to restart lightdm...
<Unit193> Okay, so no idea how that hit then..
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> ochosi put an easter egg in xfwm
<Unit193> Guess so.
<Unit193> Also, guest session kind of stinks. :P
<elfy> I wonder if we should put a disclaimer of some sort on the b2 post - "We don't like marking this as ready for use given the VM bug"
<knome> well, i don't know
<knome> tbh, the virtual installations are not *so* important
<knome> they don't blow up anybody's computer
<knome> and it's relatively easy to rerun an installation with another image
<elfy> whole thing is meh
<knome> yes, it is, but i don't think it is too critical to not call them beta-stage-ready
<elfy> oh ...
<elfy> why would I ever think that I could work with the wiki without pulling my hair out
<Unit193> Drunk?
<knome> elfy, no hair left?
<Unit193> Chest hair...
<elfy> knome: indeed
<elfy> anyway - beta2 notes done - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/Beta2/Xubuntu
<knome> thanks!
<elfy> includes is all up the swanee though
<knome> want me to look at it?
<elfy> hang on
<knome> sure...
<elfy> fixed it 
<knome> :)
<elfy> though it's a bit useless :D
<knome> as alwyas
<knome> always too
<elfy> even more so this time - it's empty :p
<knome> hah
<knome> hmph
<elfy> changed our link on the main release notes
<elfy> what's the hmph for knome - the emptiness or something else
<knome> i continued the thing in the right channel, -offtopic :)
<elfy> aah
 * bluesabre gets to packaging xfpm 1.4.1
<elfy> well I'm off now
<bluesabre> seeya elfy, have a good night
<slickymaster> nighty elfy 
<elfy> I'll do my best bluesabre :)
<elfy> wiki and blog are both done bluesabre just in case anyone in -release needs anything
<bluesabre> ok, good to know
<elfy> -release only have ochosi and me as contacts 
<bluesabre> Unit193: poke
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Are you going to try and merge from debian for the new xfpm? Corsac has packaged it
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: not sure if its worth it.  We have several differences with debian and nothing extra has diverged since 1.4.0
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> i'll try and get all the deltas smaller next cycle anyway
<bluesabre> thanks for the tip though :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: nvm, figured out it
<bluesabre>  /unping
<Unit193> bluesabre: Too bad, pooong. :D
<bluesabre> :D
<dreambit> o
<bluesabre> knome: new light-locker-settings pushed to utopic, and staging ppa for trusty
<knome> aha
<knome> how does that help?
<knome> i mean... what's the change too
<bluesabre> when you say lock, it sets the right setting for xfpm to not black screen
<knome> aha
<knome> but isn't that something you switched?
<knome> and the other thing doesn't work for others?
<Unit193> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/185784036/light-locker-settings_1.4.1-0ubuntu1_1.4.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
<bluesabre> xfpm < 1.3.2 uses old light-locker-settings, xfpm > 1.4.0 uses the new
<knome> okay
<bluesabre> just poked you because you had an issue with that earlier :)
<knome> yep
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-26
<knome> pleia2, ochosi: going to sleep (3am). release announcement not published because the release is not out yet. do that if you get back before me and after the release is done. cheers!
<knome> ^ and others feel free to ping elfy about that.
<skellat> pleia2: Are the images posted here considered "real" yet?  See: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/utopic/beta-2/
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2014-September/thread.html will link to it.
 * bluesabre tries to get a handle on possible uploads for trusty/utopic... http://paste.ubuntu.com/8429756/
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, explain
<bluesabre> that paste shows different package versions in trusty/utopic/debian
<Noskcaj> ok
<Unit193> Explain, explain, explain!
<Unit193> :D
<bluesabre> most of the xfce things will probably roll back from utopic to trusty with MRe, and menulibre/mugshot
<bluesabre> wondering, do we want the updated abiword for utopic?
<Unit193> Meh.
<bluesabre> gmusicbrowser seems like a nice one
<Noskcaj> Would we be able to get it to official archives though?
<bluesabre> these are all things in our packageset
<Unit193> gmb for utopic or trusty.
<Unit193> s/./?/
<bluesabre> probably just utopic
 * bluesabre writes scripts when he's bored
<Unit193> "add App Indicator plugin"  Shiny.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Any good ones?
<bluesabre> probably not
<bluesabre> there is probably a utility that already does most of what I do better
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'll probably work on the utopic -> trusty MRe's this weekend, maybe merge a few things like abiword and gmb to utopic too
<bluesabre> want to take bets for beta2 actually being released on 9/25 anywhere in the world?
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> -release indicates it was.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Let me know if there's anything ou want me to help with, i'm currently just working on gnome 3.14 stuff
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2014-September/000190.html
<bluesabre> ah, missed that
<pleia2> skellat: wasn't when you asked, is now
<skellat>  pleia2: Okay, I fixed the URL on the wiki to point to that back then
<skellat> So if the balloon goes up on our side, the balloon goes up on our side
<Unit193> bluesabre: You have packageset, the only thing with gmb you may want to be aware of: libgnome2-wnck-perl and libgtk2-appindicator-perl are extra things needed for all of the plugins to work, but they aren't really needed.  The second is for the appindicator, but with the mpris/soundmenu integration, it's a bit pointless IMO.
<elfy> morning 
<elfy> thanks whoever published both
<elfy> one
<ochosi> morning
<ochosi> (late morning)
<ochosi> thanks for publishing the release-related announcements!
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<bluesabre> Unit193: cool... I see that it fails gracefully when those packages are missing... what would be your suggestion if I pull it into utopic?
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> elfy: possible no dailies tonight, 07:06 <infinity> cjwatson: In that case, please don't re-enable dailies, I'll get to testing today/tomorrow.
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<elfy> bluesabre: ty
<ochosi> reason is the lightdm bug?
<bluesabre> they broke booting on ppc64el
<ochosi> oh
<bluesabre> doesn't affect us, but its all or nothing probably
<ochosi> thanks for the nice -settings fixes, bluesabre 
<ochosi> you've really been extremely productive this cycle
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> btw, do we already have an overview over what bugs still need fixing? or were you suggesting that more generally, i.e. not only in terms of xubuntu
<elfy> bluesabre: oh lol - I assumed that to be something in -release from last night - just seen it :)
<bluesabre> just kind of generally.  there's probably several reports that have already been fixed, but not closed
<bluesabre> like this one, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1318162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1318162 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "dialog-ok-apply icon missing from several subdirectories" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ochosi> hmright
<ochosi> that should be fix released i guess, since i added that a long time ago already
<bluesabre> or any easy fixes for some of our other projects, so yeah, just in general bug cleanup
<ochosi> sounds like a good plan
<ochosi> still haven't been able to properly check out ll1.5 and the greeter brnach
<ochosi> branch
<bluesabre> same here
<bluesabre> going to test the new fix for the greeter this weekend
<bluesabre> and then roll it in, because it works well, just looked a little funny
<ochosi> that means all-gtk3 then
<lderan> :P
<ochosi> i guess it doesn't use releavers or anything yet?
<bluesabre> it uses GtkOverlay
<bluesabre> we have 1.9 in utopic, which is already all-gtk3
<ochosi> right, so transparency now works without the cairo stuff?
<bluesabre> I believe so
 * bluesabre is no longer the primary developer for -greeter
 * ochosi neither
<ochosi> i've been out of touch with the greeter code for a while and it has really grown and changed significantly
<ochosi> guess it'd take me a bit to get back in
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/one-window-layout/+merge/233644
<bluesabre> subwindow_draw has been removed, so that might be a good indicator
<ochosi> yup, i was just browsing through that :)
<bluesabre> I'll experiment with it, set the window to 50% alpha or something and see what happens
<ochosi> yup, that sounds like a good idea
<ochosi> btw, what about finishing the gsettings patch for ll?
<bluesabre> yeah, need to do that
<bluesabre> should only take around an hour
<ochosi> i mean from what i can tell there are no really critical bugs around in most projects we work/ed on, some are waiting for features though
<bluesabre> I'll try to get that done this weekend
<ochosi> that'd be great
<ochosi> then we can finally chop down lls to something with reasonable code and no more desktop file writing :)
<bluesabre> indeed
<ochosi> could even ship it with light-locker then
<ochosi> if it's a build option, it wouldn't matter so much that it's python
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> that sounds good
<bluesabre> alrighty, I'm getting hungry, time to go start my day
<bluesabre> I'll be around most of the weekend, bbl
<ochosi> okeydokey!
<ochosi> enjoy breakfast and the rest of the day then
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, another -settings bug/patch for us: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11188
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11188 in Xfsettingsd ""Unknown option --display" and xfsettingsd doesn't start on session login." [Normal,New]
<xubuntu51w> Just DL's the 14.10B2.  When did the highlights/selection bar becme pink?
<knome> xubuntu51w, in 14.10b2.
<xubuntu51w> :) By design?
<knome> did you read the release announcement?
<xubuntu51w> actually, no (mea culpa)
<knome> doing that usually helps with the "is this for real" -moments
<knome> yes, it's by design to celebrate the "unicorn" release and to demonstrate the customizability.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I was actually leaning towards "Suggests", but was going to leave it up to you, just making you aware of it.
<brainwash> the skel stuff is only copied once when a new account has been created, right?
<brainwash> some user installs ubuntu and then adds xubuntu-desktop. this way etc/skel/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css won't be copied and he ends up with the pink highlight only being applied tp gtk2 apps
<brainwash> furthermore, the other way around the pink highlight will be visible in unity for gtk3 apps
<brainwash> this appears to be messy
<knome> brainwash, congrats.
<brainwash> what did I win?
<brainwash> at least there is a note on how to revert the change :)
<knome> you just won the sherlock holmes badge of the month.
<brainwash> thanks
<Unit193> Made sure gtk-theme-config could easily use the reset button.
<brainwash> it's not a problem, just a minor annoyance
<brainwash> especially if you don't know about gtk-theme-config
<knome> brainwash, is there something that isn't a minor annoyance if you don't know a tool that does the task? no.
<knome> seriously, we should learn to relax a bit.
<knome> if we can't make a nice joke about unicorns, what is all this work for then?
<brainwash> why not pink nuance in the wallpaper then?
<knome> i thought we were having fun doing this and allowing ourselves some creativity space.
<brainwash> :D
<knome> there is a pink nuance in the wallpaper
<knome> we just didn't want to make it all pink, because that would have been a bit over the top
<knome> ultimately, we wanted the default installation to still be usable
<elfy> obviously going to be a fine release if all people have to worry about is pink
<knome> that.
<brainwash> I'm not worried about color changes, but the inconsistency which I've pointed out
<knome> there will always be inconsistencies
<knome> you've just accustomed to too good.
<knome> that only shows how much work has gone to make xubuntu actually really consistent
<Unit193> Nothing wrong with pointing out where it isn't.
<knome> sure.
<knome> we'll go back to the old blues in 15.04 anyway
<brainwash> Unit193: could the package version of "xfce4" be incremented to 4.11?
<brainwash> to reflect the fact that most packages are now from Xfce 4.11
<knome> does that really matter, and is that really the place we should communicate that?
<brainwash> that's why I'm asking him
<brainwash> changing the version shouldn't break anything
<Unit193> You technically could, but as it's a deps package with >= 4.10 type of deps, it's native to Debian, and no 4.11 in experimental I wouldn't really.
<brainwash> ok, then it will be changed to 4.12 once the new stable release is ready :)
<Unit193> (http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce/desktop/trunk/xfce4/debian/control?view=markup)
<Unit193> Tends to only follow stable releases, 4.8 to 4.10, yeah
<brainwash> 4.11 looks like a pseudo stable release
<brainwash> even shipped in a ubuntu lts release
<Unit193> Heh, considering https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.12/roadmap/critical-bugs ?
<brainwash> bugs everywhere =S
<brainwash> so, changing the deps to >= 4.11 should be possible in utopic, but that won't let users install xfce 4.10 components without losing the meta package
<brainwash> I understand that this change has to be made by the debian maintainer
<Unit193> forestpiskie: Hey, you don't have any problems with /tmp if you leave the computer on for a day or more, right?
<slickymaster> Unit193, any luck sorting  out the translation credits issue?
<Unit193> Not looked more into it.
<slickymaster> ok
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-27
<Unit193> /nick eth1
<Unit193> bluesabre: Great!  You did exactly what I did then, and delta can drop next release: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/gmusicbrowser.git/commit/?id=477d9ddba9a6699ce8899a9282591e5395bc44fa
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> queue-bot is still active, huh? no more auto-approvals it looks like currently
<bluesabre> thankfully I'm running out of utopic uploads finally
<Unit193> Hah, yeah. :P
 * bluesabre wonders if it will auto-accept anyway
<Unit193> No FFe?
<bluesabre> micro-release
<bluesabre> does it mainly/only fix bugs?
<bluesabre> might have slipped there...
<bluesabre> oh dang
<bluesabre> (bad bluesabre)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I wish we'd been allowed to MRE your apps too. Maybe they could become part of xfce?
<Noskcaj> Same with the whiskermenu guy
<bluesabre> yeah, could be desirable
<bluesabre> knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1374682
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1374682 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "[FFe] gmusicbrowser 1.1.13 for Utopic" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> Unit193: in case I missed anything obvious ^
<bluesabre> heading to bed now, bbl
<forestpiskie> Unit193: nope 
<knome> bluesabre, ack'd it docs-team wise
<bluesabre> knome: thanks
<bluesabre> ochosi: able to make the login window transparent with the greeter branch
<bluesabre> need to make sure it works well with Ambiance and Adwaita, then I'll probably merge it into trunk
<bluesabre> yup, works well with Adwaita, Ambiance, and Numix, I'm content
<bluesabre> bbabl
<bluesabre> back
<elfy> wb bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> thanks
<slickymaster> knome, thanks for acknowledging bug 1374682
<ubottu> bug 1374682 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "[FFe] gmusicbrowser 1.1.13 for Utopic" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1374682
<knome> np
<ochosi> bluesabre: great! saw you merged the branch already. is the theming still off?
<bluesabre> ochosi: looks good to me, nothing seems really amiss
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: care to nominate these for trusty?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mugshot/+bug/1374802
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1374802 in mugshot (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Mugshot 0.2.5 for Trusty" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mugshot/+bug/1353530
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1353530 in Mugshot "[SRU] Mugshot fails to start for some users" [High,Fix released]
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mugshot/+bug/1310634
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1310634 in Mugshot "[SRU] Mugshot fails to expand user details" [High,Fix released]
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, done
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: thanks
<knome> bluesabre, see #x and tell if i'm wrong.
<brainwash> bluesabre, Noskcaj: this one is still on the todo list, bug 1365965
<ubottu> bug 1365965 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "[MRE] Please update xfdesktop4 to 4.11.7" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1365965
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> going to upload 4.11.8 today or tomorrow
<brainwash> wow, awesome :)
<bluesabre> slowly making my way through everything, working on xfburn now
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, MREs are for bugfix only, therefor xfburn can't be MREed
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> well, thats lame :)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: since MREs aren't quite as well documented, is a single note with MRE and bug number sufficient?
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8442829/
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, It's meant to be an FFe that's easier to get. Use bug 1324815 as an example
<ubottu> bug 1324815 in tracker (Ubuntu Trusty) "[MRE] Please update tracker to 0.16.4" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1324815
<bluesabre> thanks
<Noskcaj> So (i think) do all changes in one release rather than a "backport" release
<bluesabre> alrighty
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-28
<bluesabre> knome: Should this bug forever hang around as "Confirmed"?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1314153
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1314153 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "XUbuntu reinstalls all default packages on release update" [Low,Confirmed]
<brainwash> it's not even an actual bug, or?
<knome> bluesabre, it shouldn't, we should fix it
<bluesabre> not sure I understand the problem... this is how all ubuntu release upgrades work
<bluesabre> or am I mistaken?
<knome> ok, so:
<knome> 1) user installs xubuntu
<knome> 2) user purges abiword, which in turn removes xubuntu-desktop
<knome> 3) user upgrades, abiword is installed
<knome> that *is* a bug
<knome> iirc abiword and gnumeric were the things that this concerned
<knome> there is no way to keep the xubuntu default settings packge (and get all the nice branding) but not install abiword on every upgrade
<bluesabre> xubuntu-default-settings doesn't depend on xubuntu-desktop or abiword
<knome> i can set up a testing environment at some point
<knome> all you have to do to test this is install, remove abiword, and upgrade
<knome> actually, since i seem to have trusty images, let me try this
<ali1234> that's always been a bug
<brainwash> xubuntu-desktop only recommends abiword, so I guess that the upgrade process just reinstalls all the recommended packages
<knome> bluesabre, but the user doesn't have xubuntu-desktop if they removed abiword.
<knome> brainwash, ^
<ali1234> it's the reason why you can install ubuntu -> apt-get xubuntu-desktop -> do-release-upgrade, and then sudden your install has turned into xubuntu
<knome> but this is not about having xubuntu-desktop
<bluesabre> its not about xubuntu-default-settings either, this is a bug in ubuntu-release-upgrader
<knome> so how does ubuntu-release-upgrader figure out that it wants to install me xubuntu-dekstop stuff?
<bluesabre> dunno, looking into it now
<knome> ta
<knome> if you need testing, tell me
<knome> i'll boot a trusty vm up soon to try this as well
<knome> and do an upgrade test while i'm on it
<knome> it's just that i need to zsync half of the trusty image :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> also, "Acid pink" https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1374533
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1373280 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1374533 Pink background on selected items" [Undecided,Invalid]
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> yess
<elfy> hippies
<knome> ;)
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy, soon doing an upgrade test with amd64, woohoo ;)
<elfy> I saw
<knome> only a tad late. ;)
<elfy> don't worry too much - I've decided to care as much about testing as everyone else
<knome> that's probably a good attitude for this cycle
<elfy> mmm
<knome> hmm
<bluesabre> knome: for the upgrade bug, I see that it was originally set for ubuntu-release-upgrader, but you changed it to xubuntu-default-settings?
<elfy> shame that much of team had the same attitude last cycle
<knome> did trusty have the black bg bug previously too?
<knome> elfy, that is
<elfy> knome: at one point yes - xnox was in here talking about it iirc
<knome> bluesabre, apparently so ;)
<knome> ok, since i have it with the daily
<elfy> yea
<elfy> there is a bug report for it knome 
<knome> i know
<knome> just digging it up
<brainwash> I remember bugging xnox with this background bug
<elfy> aaah - nvm - iirc wrongly
<elfy> last time we had a debian background 
<knome> yes
<elfy> but it does go wrong during every cycle I've had anything to do with testing wise
<knome> elfy, that's sad thing to happen
<knome> we even changed our wallpaper to be a symlink
<knome> to avoid having to change paths in various packages
<knome> but now it seems to have some other issue
<elfy> I remember that conversation
<elfy> so - something is still up with it then - if we've not changed then I guess it's something to do with making everything ok for some phone somewhere
<knome> heh
<knome> now that we've landed that and seen some bug reports coming in, do we still think it's fine to edit existing installations to have the pink highlight?
<knome> it's far more obvious that it's a release-specific thing when you install 14.10, but it can be a bit weird to upgrade to such
<elfy> well given that people read release notes as much as topics/stickies - I say change it - perhaps they will read next time ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> i don't think that helps,
<knome> two people have already taken the time to file a bug instead of reading the release announcement ;)
<elfy> you're not surprised surely? 
<knome> the installation should probably wipe out all their data until they learned to read the release notes, but implementing THAT would be a bit too brutal
<knome> of course i'm not surprised
<elfy> it does do that if they choose the wrong option ;)
<knome> lol
<knome> true
<elfy> bug 1265192 :)
<ubottu> bug 1265192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Install/reinstall wipes out all/other partitions" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1265192
<knome> yep, seen that
<elfy> imo unless the installer comes with an autopilot like Airplane then people will always read what they *think* it says 
<knome> hehe
<knome> yep...
<knome> great, done zsyncing utopic amd64
<knome> ...aaaand i386
<knome> bluesabre, confirming:
<knome> 1) clean install, purge abiword, gnumeric and xubuntu-desktop
<knome> 2) start upgrade: proposes to install abiword, gnumeric and xubuntu-desktop
<knome> what's pulling these in?
<bluesabre> Pretty sure its the release upgrader.  Otherwise removing a single app from anything would mean never getting any more new/replaced packages on upgrade.
<bluesabre> considering Ubuntu knows how you installed it, this doesn't seem so unlikely
<bluesabre> "InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 14.04 LTS "Trusty Tahr" - Release i386 (20140416.2)"
<knome> sure.
<knome> but still, i fail to see the logic why it wants to force those packages on me
<bluesabre> I'll check out the source code, 430 open bugs is a bit much to wade through
<knome> doing another test.
<bluesabre> env variables...
<bluesabre> RELEASE_UPGRADE_NO_FORCE_OVERWRITE:
<bluesabre> - if that is set, no --force-overwrite is used
<bluesabre> could be useful
<knome> hmm
<bluesabre> Yeah, I think it auto-detects based on dependencies... https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/ubuntu-release-upgrader/utopic/view/head:/data/DistUpgrade.cfg#L63
<bluesabre> still digging around
<bluesabre> this thing is huge
<brainwash> ubuntu-release-upgrader is not just a normal upgrade tool, it's actually "smart" :)
<bluesabre> I think it makes sense though... Are you running xubuntu 14.04 if you removed xubuntu desktop in 6.06 and then upgraded your way without picking up any of our new packages?
<bluesabre> you'd still be listening to music with listen
<bluesabre> I wouldn't want to support that upgrade
<brainwash> yeah, not a bug after all, the upgrade process is intended to work this way
<bluesabre> knome: thoughts?
<brainwash> moreover, it's not xubuntu specific
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> maybe the program could be extended with a new KeepRemovedPackages
<bluesabre> but I can imagine that being kludgey
<knome> bluesabre, did you try what NO_FORCE_OVERWRITE actually does?
<bluesabre> I did not
<knome> bluesabre, well, users can install listen even if it wasn't pulled in
<bluesabre> I know
<knome> i mean, it really isn't much different from supporting any system with random packages the user needs
<bluesabre> so if somebody removes abiword in 13.10, they should not get light-locker in 14.04?
<knome> bluesabre, no, they should not get abiword in 13.10
<knome> err, in 14.04..
<knome> tiger
<knome> hmm
<knome> there you go, my testing password
<elfy> longer than test
<knome> yes, and much more imagination-requiring! :P
<bluesabre> but yeah, not a bug in xubuntu-default-settings, a bug in ubuntu-release-upgrader
<knome> and harder to type
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> because ultimately we're dealing with apt, so the upgrader would need to be extended to diff a base install, see whats missing, and remove that after upgrade
<knome> bluesabre, or simply just not install removed packages
 * bluesabre is not volunteering
<knome> that are recommended
<knome> yes, doing "export RELEASE_UPGRADE_NO_FORCE_OVERWRITE=true" gives me the expected results (from my pov)
<knome> of course it's a problem if we need new packages to be installed
<knome> but IMO it's also a problem if the user is forced to install software they removed
<knome> d
<elfy> not really sure it's that much of a problem 
<knome> to me, it is a problem
<knome> if i purge abiword and gnumeric, that means i do not want them
<knome> ever.
<elfy> I want xchat - always ;)
<knome> and it's stupid that i'm forced to get those back on every upgrade, and use my time and bandwidth
<knome> ok, another problem
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> now i can't revert the env var, even if i unset
<knome> bluesabre, what are you lolling at? :P
<bluesabre> knome: you're complaining a lot about this app to folks that don't develop this app ;)
<knome> bluesabre, stuff happens... and really, i'm just laying out my own thoughts, and want feedback from you
<knome> and want to know if you consider it as a problem
<knome> or if it's best for me to shut down
<bluesabre> I don't consider it such a problem. Sure, you're getting things back that you removed, which is a pain
<knome> bluesabre, fwiw, even with the no force overwrite bit, i'm getting new packages
<knome> like greybird-gtk-theme
<bluesabre> But, if the user removes a lot of things, they probably don't really want xubuntu
<knome> so it's not like i'm falling behing because i don't have xubuntu-desktop
<bluesabre> shimmer-themes broke out into the individual themes for 14.10
<knome> yes
<knome> which is what i'm saying...
<bluesabre> shimmer-themes is an empty file now, you're going to get replacements
<knome> i still get that update
<knome> even if i don't have xubuntu-desktop
<bluesabre> right
<knome> what else new packages do we have?
<knome> i get inxi too.
<knome> for some reason, build-essential is installed for me, but whatever, that's a minor issue.
<knome> (this is a clean trusty update, with abiword/gnumeric/xubuntu-desktop purged)
<bluesabre> yup
<knome> err, trusty install .P
<bluesabre> its still an upgrade
<bluesabre> so you're getting xubuntu 14.10
<knome> exactly
<knome> without the packages i don't want
<bluesabre> not ubuntu + xfce 14.10
<knome> so once i've upgraded,
<knome> i'm still using xubuntu
<knome> not an anomaly of a system we don't want to support, as you implied before ;)
<knome> i'm not saying we should *encourage* people to use this method
<knome> but i think it's fair to have it
<knome> i guess another possibility is...
<bluesabre> so you get everything except abiword/gnumeric in this case?
<knome> is there a way to pin a package in a way that it never gets installed?
<knome> i believe so
<knome> it's hard to compare the lists since i can't revert the var :P
<knome> which is one argument against it
<knome> let me do a quickish reinstall...
<knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8447482/
<knome> that's the list with the bit set
<bluesabre> cool
<knome> so again, it's not like that's a broken system after that
<knome> not sure how that would work out if one did many many upgrades
<knome> ok, let's see what the list looks like without the bit
<knome> dun dun dun dun dun
<knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8447565/
<bluesabre> neat
<bluesabre> want to add a comment to that bug report then?
<knome> not yet
<knome> i'll need to check something else as well
<knome> and i'm not sure if i want to mention that on a bug report with no disclaimers
<knome> actually, i think i know a much better variant
<knome> pin the package name with priority -1, and even the upgrader won't install it
<knome> now, sure, people can break their systems BADLY with this
<knome> but at least there's an easy fix... remove pins and upgrade
<knome> the thing that scares me about the bit you mentioned is that it's hardly documented all (try googling with the name!) and all references seem to be really old
<bluesabre> its in the README
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/ubuntu-release-upgrader/utopic/view/head:/DistUpgrade/README
<knome> bluesabre, right, then that just didn't pop up in the search results (or i missed it)
 * vertz pokes brainwash 
<brainwash> hi vertz 
<vertz> hey
<vertz> why is synclient set to VertEdgeScroll = 1 when you have two finger scroll enable?
<vertz> and also 
<vertz> ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/pointers.xml has some odd values
<vertz> which make you accidently paste whatever you have on clipboard all over the place
<vertz> this goes for laptops of course
<vertz> synaptics_tap_action array should be set to [0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
<vertz> hehe
<knome> hmm?
<Unit193> Shiny, es is almost there.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-21
<Unit193> Yey!  Though I haven't even done one upload yet, knome.  I might be very bad you know!
<bluesabre> knome: getting started now, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis/MOTUApplication
<bluesabre> ^ first draft
<Unit193> Didn't take some templates out, "like least in Ubuntu"
<bluesabre> not yet anyway
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> whats up Unit193?
<bluesabre> you should skip motu and apply for core-dev, just for the heck of it ;)
<Unit193> Hah, riiiight.  Like I'm half that good.  I don't get (nor like) the main <-> universe thing. :D
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Though, I'm a year after you for packageset right?  So another year for MOTU.
<bluesabre> if they give it to me, sure :D
<Unit193> If they don't, another year after that.
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi, micahg: Any suggestions on what I've scribbled down here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeanDavis/MOTUApplication
<pleia2> knome: nice, congrats? :)
<knome> pleia2, haha, well, yeah, i guess, more commas
<knome> bluesabre, s/for some time/since XXX/
<knome> bluesabre, s/xubuntu/Xubuntu/
<knome> bluesabre, you help maintain more than those packages, things that come to mind are xubuntu-docs, shimmer-themes
<knome> bluesabre, maybe you'd want to say something about the xubuntu release team and how you collaborate with the ubuntu release team
<knome> bluesabre, other than that, looks very good for a first draft
<bluesabre> micahg: got the ack to upload shimmer-themes, if you get a chance, can be sponsored from https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring
<bluesabre> micahg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1497228
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497228 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] shimmer-themes 2.0.2" [Medium,Triaged]
<bluesabre> unless you'd be interested in sponsoring this one for us, Logan ?
<bluesabre> knome: thanks
<knome> bluesabre, np
<flocculant> good day peeps
<knome> hello flocculant 
<knome> bluesabre, see #kubuntu-devel - TL;DR: they'll update breeze on december (to depend on another gtk theme) and then we should get shimmer-themes back
<flocculant> bug 1497918 
<ubottu> bug 1497918 in thunar (Ubuntu) "File couldn't be moved to trash: Invalid link across device boundaries" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1497918
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, I've just been smoke testing Ubuntu MATE.
<flexiondotorg> I noticed the rick auto-login during install is not working anymore.
<flexiondotorg> I've test Xubuntu 15.10 daily and found the same issue.
<flexiondotorg> I think this patch might be related - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1484083
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1484083 in One Hundred Papercuts "Don't work autologin after update lightdm" [High,Confirmed]
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: mmm - lightdm is just a pita
<flocculant> hard to tell which file should have that in - we don't get /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<flocculant> but yea - see the same thing here
<flocculant> so manually building the file works
<flocculant> bluesabre: xfpanel switcher for preset panels - nice \o/ 
<flexiondotorg>  /etc/lightdm.conf just contains this on Ubuntu MATE now:
<flexiondotorg> [Seat:*]
<flocculant> just that? 
<flexiondotorg> Yep.
<flocculant> right - well we don't actually get lightdm.conf at all 
<flexiondotorg> Xubuntu and Ubuntu MATE provide their own custom configs.
<flexiondotorg> But I can't find anything setting the auto-login
<flocculant> right - I had to manually create /etc/lightdm.conf.d/file.conf 
<flocculant> with [Seat:*] and session and user details and it worked ok 
<flocculant> mmm - hang on - didn't see the emptyish one you have :D
<flocculant> so - that should work
<flocculant> but not sure why it's broken - got a month to sort it out
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: well I've commented on bug 
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, Thanks.
<flocculant> fiddling with the other files we DO have makes no difference 
<flocculant> autologin isn't something we actually test 
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, I also test one with auto login and one without.
<flexiondotorg> It only stopped working recently.
<flexiondotorg> I've added an Ubuntu MATE comment to that bug too.
<flocculant> awesome copy/paste :D
<flexiondotorg> Yep :-)
<flocculant> though to be honest - we might have been better doing a new bug and critically failing on the tracker :D
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, I plan on doing the tracker thing when the beta testing starts.
<flocculant> if Robert Ancell doesn't pop up on it - new bug ;)
<flocculant> ok - well if you report it let me know and I'll confirm etc 
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, OK
<flocculant> in the meantime - added a reminder for me on release note draft
<ochosi> evening all
<ochosi> knome: did that kubuntu chat go anywhere in the end?
<ochosi> oh gee
<knome> ochosi, they said they will move to another gtk theme for breeze in december
<flocculant> evening ochosi :)
<ochosi> december is really late
<flocculant> evening knome too :)
<knome> ochosi, i know, but they can likely help with the uploads if we need to do stuff before that
<ochosi> knome: yeah, sorry, was slow to read the backlog here (had only read the one in #k-devel)
<ochosi> bluesabre: looks good! (re: MOTU application)
<knome> ochosi, do we have uploads for shimmer-themes in sight before the release then?
<ochosi> knome: well that's hard to anticipate
<knome> ochosi, if that happens, just ping me and i'll take care of it
<ochosi> just afraid we might lose track of that again with thise  long horizon
<knome> ochosi, i'll track it, don't worry
<knome> we can even add it to the new blueprint if that helps you relax
<ochosi> sure :)
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: if I spell autlogin properly in the file we do have - then it does in fact work ... 
<ochosi> guess we can mark that workitem done r postponed then
<knome> ochosi, both done
<ochosi> ty
<knome> np
<knome> (i assigned it to kubuntu-dev...)
<knome> they probably don't care because they have no way to track that
<knome> HAHA!
 * knome calms down
<ochosi> :D
<flocculant> completely or just a bit?
<knome> just a bit, for just a moment
<flocculant> heh
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, So can you share a link to a paste of the correct config?
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: for us at least http://pastebin.com/KkGaaewB
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, OK, so you manually edit the xubuntu conf.
<flocculant> yea - mostly to check it worked 
<flocculant> just installed a vivid with autologin - that works, updating etc then see what happens on upgrade to wily
<flocculant> but that'll be tomorrow ... 
<flocculant> night all
<ochosi> night floc	
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<ochosi> knome: there you go, new nice update for greybird
<knome> lol
<ochosi> do we really have to wait until december for ppl to get that? :>
<ochosi> (fun with timing: i think the shimmer-themes 2.0.2 upload just got the UIFe)
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> micahg: thanks for the upload
<ochosi> and evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> now that you're here, it's time for me to go to bed (nothing personal though)
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> D:
<bluesabre> :'(
<ochosi> stupid timezones...
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: ok so vivid works, vivid updated works, vivid to wily upgrade fails - pretty much as I expected 
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<flocculant> yep night all - really going now :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: g'night
<ochosi> still working on switching to xubuntu @work btw...
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<bluesabre> bye everyone, bbabl
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hi.
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, there was another greeter MR in case you wanna take a look... (i really don't get to it atm and i'd rather review jjfrv8's thunar docs)
<ochosi> bluesabre: just to be sure, i'm talking about this one: https://code.launchpad.net/~kalgasnik/lightdm-gtk-greeter/lp-1445420-greeter-show-manual-login-fixed/+merge/263830
<ochosi> night all!
<Unit193> G'night.
<bluesabre> night ochosi
<bluesabre> yeah, need to review that tonight
<pleia2> happy new year!
<pleia2> o/ knome 
<knome> oi pleia2!
<knome> pleia2, what's up? :)
<pleia2> I got a lot of emails :)
<knome> haha
<knome> yeah, of course
<knome> sorry for the spam everybody
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> knome: did you have a look at my flyer draft post?
<knome> nope, did you ask me to?
<pleia2> I did!
<knome> oh, then sorry :(
<knome> i'll look now
<pleia2> is ok :)
<knome> oh wow
<pleia2> "this is a disaster!"
<knome> those images are like, awful :D
<pleia2> hahaha
<knome> where did the padding go
<pleia2> well, do what you will
<pleia2> inkscape > export as png
<knome> and you selected drawing as the area to export, not page, i guess?
<pleia2> I didn't select anything, so yeah probably :)
<knome> heh
<knome> one question:
<knome> do we really need to lay them out like that, or would it be enough that we created some kind of nicer looking image and linked to a pdf from that
<pleia2> knome: pro tip: don't let pleia2 do anything with images
<knome> becuase that eats a lot of space and is kind of meh
<pleia2> yeah sure
<knome> ok, i'll craft something
<pleia2> thank you
<knome> now i'll try to read the text
<pleia2> haha, there isn't much
<knome> well i guess i would mention one thing
<knome> after the license and blahblah text, it could be good to mention that we actually encourage people to take part in improving the official flyer instead of creating weirdo spinoffs
<knome> and something about translations
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> how are we supporting translations?
<knome> in no way, yet
<pleia2> so what should we say about them? :)
<knome> but if people are interested in translating it, i guess the same procedure applies as to the startubuntu flavored one
<pleia2> ok
<knome> and i guess we'll also help them to get the layouting right, so if they are struggling with it, better ask us than create a silly version
<pleia2> how do you generate your pdfs from the svgs, just inkscape export? (but with padding!)
<knome> with the script in the repository
<pleia2> oh right
<knome> but yeah, it's basically an inkscape export, then pdftk to make those files a single PDF
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> and for _print, text is converted to paths
<knome> so even if you sent it to a commercial printer that was ignorant and stupid, they couldn't mess up the font
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-22
<pleia2> knome: yep, that's nice :)
<knome> added something more about contributing and translations
<pleia2> if the magnet from my phone case gets close to the power button on my laptop it makes it go sleepies
<knome> nice
<pleia2> looks good
<knome> but i'll want to change the teaser artwork
<knome> it's horrible and blurry
<knome> but that'll have to wait until tomorrow
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> but if you think it's ok to go otherwise, i can take action to push it out
<pleia2> I do!
<knome> goodie goodie
<pleia2> thanks :)
<knome> oh also
<knome> one more thing
<knome> we might want to link to http://xubuntu.org/products/
<pleia2> sure
<knome> for the "always latest version" page
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> pleia2, btw, i guess you have some extra stickers left?
<pleia2> yep, a whole bunch
<knome> that were reserved for the QA winners
<knome> ok, i have an idea
<knome> we now have 4000 twitter followers
<knome> maybe we could do something like
<pleia2> that's a lot of followers
<knome> "Reply to this tweet with the best Xubuntu story you have - best tweeteres win stickers" or sth
<knome> or make them use #lovexubuntu
<knome> or sth
<pleia2> 140 characters is not a long story
<pleia2> but it's a good idea, I'll think on it
<knome> well
<knome> maybe it can also be a poem :P
<pleia2> haiku for xubuntu
<knome> or a marketing punchline
<knome> i mean, whatever
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> let people get creative
<knome> i don't care
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> yeah, good idea
<knome> guess it could be done on other social media sites too
<pleia2> we can start with twitter
<knome> yep
<knome> let's think about that overnight or so
 * pleia2 nods
<bluesabre> :)
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 4 updates, showing the latest 3
<micahg> bluesabre: you're welcome
<slickymasterWork> krytarik, re. the RU translation po file, I've wet ahead and correct:
<slickymasterWork> 121:msgstr "ÐÐ°Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ð½Ð¸ÑÐµ ÑÐµÐºÑÑÐ¾Ð²ÑÐµ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ñ Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð±ÑÐ¾Ð´Ð¸Ð¼Ð¾Ð¹ Ð¿ÐµÑÑÐ¾Ð½Ð°Ð»ÑÐ½Ð¾Ð¹ Ð¸Ð½ÑÐ¾ÑÐ¼Ð°ÑÐ¸ÐµÐ¹ Ð¸ Ð½Ð°Ð¶Ð¼Ð¸ÑÐµ <guibutton> ÐÑÐ¸Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ð¸ÑÑ </ guibutton>. ÐÑÐ¸ Ð¿ÑÐ¸Ð¼ÐµÐ½ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ð¸ ÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ð´ÐµÑÐ°Ð»ÐµÐ¹ Ñ <Application> Pidgin </ Application> Ð¸ / Ð¸Ð»Ð¸ ÑÑÑÐ°Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ð»ÐµÐ½ LibreOffice, Ð²Ð°Ð¼ Ð±ÑÐ´ÐµÑ Ð¿ÑÐµÐ´Ð»Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð¾ Ð¾Ð±Ð½Ð¾Ð²Ð¸ÑÑ ÑÐ²Ð¾Ð¸ Ð½Ð°ÑÑÑÐ¾Ð¹ÐºÐ¸." 122:msgstr 
<slickymasterWork> and 123:msgstr "ÐÐ¾Ð´ÑÐ¾Ð±Ð½ÐµÐµ Ð½Ð° <ULINK URL = \"http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs\"> Mugshot </ ULINK> ÐÑÐ¸ÑÐ¸Ð°Ð»ÑÐ½Ð°Ñ Ð´Ð¾ÐºÑÐ¼ÐµÐ½ÑÐ°ÑÐ¸Ñ."
<slickymasterWork> in all cases I'm going to mail them 
<slickymasterWork> knome ^^
<knome> yep, i noticed that too
<slickymasterWork> I'm just going to mention the extra spaces in the tags knome 
<knome> yep
<knome> and tag names ALWAYS in lowercase
<knome> i don't know if that's mentioned in the guidelines
 * slickymasterWork checks
<slickymasterWork> no, it isn't
<knome> mhm
<knome> tags and attribute names
<knome> <ulink url="">
<slickymasterWork> you have mail knome 
<knome> always...
<slickymasterWork> lol
<slickymasterWork> don't we all :P
<knome> yep
<knome> good goof
<knome> ehh
<knome> good good
<knome> no goofs
<slickymasterWork> krytarik would also have if he only would be so kind as to provide it
<knome> hah
<slickymasterWork> where knome, in the mail
<slickymasterWork> ?
<knome> i said no goofs
<knome> it was supposed to be "good good"
<slickymasterWork> lol
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: bug 1498544
<ubottu> bug 1498544 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Autlogin lost after 15.04 to 15.10 upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1498544
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, Thanks.
<flocculant> yea saw that - hence adding it in comment :)
<flocculant> anyone think of any sensible reason not to try and pull in testing from users from this milestone? 
<flocculant> might even get some real world upgrade tests
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: well that was pretty quick - high and robert assigned
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, Yep, but robert is at a conference ;-)
<flocculant> doesn't matter really - not likely to get sorted in one day - so be after final beta 
<flocculant> pleia2 knome - words upon words for final beta - if we could do the social media stuff that'll be awesome :)
<knome> flocculant, i'll tweet that in the next 30 mins or so unless pleia2 gets to it first
<knome> flocculant, and good mail, thanks for that
<flocculant> tried to positively say what needed to be said :D
<flocculant> wicked headache - probably not back till the morrow
<knome> huhu, get good rest then
<pleia2> today is all-the-work-meetings day, I'll try to get to it in a bit
<flocculant> knome: just a quick one - linkedin on our website is dead now
<flocculant> pleia2: no rush - not even frozen images yet anyway 
<pleia2> I thought we had cleaned up references to that, which page?
<flocculant> http://xubuntu.org/
<knome> pleia2, i'll do that
<pleia2> ah, the social media line, sneaky
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> anyway - off now - sounds like thump thump thump as I type ... 
<pleia2> night flocculant 
<knome> ok, tweeted
<knome> social media line updated
<knome> added a line for the beta 2 testing
<knome> i should look at the flyer teaser art
 * knome boots gimp
<pleia2> <3
<sorinello> hello knome. Which is the official tweeter account of Xubuntu ? I happen to find 3 of them
<knome> sorinello, which 3 then?
<knome> sorinello, and for the official one, what about the one that's linked to from the website?
<sorinello> indeed, didn't see it on the main page
<knome> not even below the information about 14.04 LTS?
<sorinello> thanks
<knome> :)
<knome> what are the other two accounts you found then?
<sorinello> 1) https://twitter.com/XubuntuLinux which seems empty
<knome> yes, that's our old handle - the description in that links to the new one
<knome> we should likely consider actions for that account
<knome> pleia2, ^
<sorinello> like, removing it ? :)
<knome> that's one option, but pleia2 hates anything that's related to deleting
<knome> me, on the other hand...
<sorinello> but I think it doesn't hate it more than duplication and confusion :)
<sorinello> 2) https://twitter.com/LinuxXubuntu
<knome> right..
<sorinello> also it's quite cool it seems someone in Russia is a big fan of Xubuntu: https://twitter.com/Xubunturunet
<knome> that's better, at least they are using the current logo etc
<knome> thanks, we'll look into these
<pleia2> XubuntuLinux is actually still linked places, I didn't want someone else registering it and old resources giving them traffic, which is why the description points at the new account
<pleia2> nothing we can do about LinuxXubuntu
<knome> well, except maybe ask them to do something
<knome> it's confusing that they use this name
<knome> and it's stupid that they also use our logo
<knome> i guess one way would to seek that our account is the verified one
<sorinello> yeah, and it doesn't seem related to xubuntu at all
<sorinello> indeed, that would be the best thing
<knome> that's something we can at least do, even if the LinuxXubuntu maintainer(s) didn't want to stop doing what they do
<sorinello> yeah..
<pleia2> knome: I'm away tomorrow, aim on publishing post re: flyers thursday (eek, beta 2!) or friday?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-23
<Nairwolf> Hi, I would like to help and make some test for the next release of Xubuntu. I'm downloading the daily 20150922.1
<Nairwolf> I've receveid the email. Is it these testcases I have to do ? http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/340/builds/102861/testcases
<Nairwolf> It's only related to installation. What if I don't want to install it yet, but, I want to test this daily release with an usb key ? 
<Nairwolf> Is it still relevant ? 
<holstein> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<holstein> Nairwolf: oh.. yeah, thats where.. i would wait around, and make sure those are the proper ones.. there is also a release channel..
<Nairwolf> what is the release channel, holstein ? 
<Nairwolf> thank you for the link. it's the same I've given. Sorry, my english ins't perfect. Can you explain me again "I would wait around, and make sure those are the proper ones" ?
<Nairwolf> Hi, I've lost connection, maybe I've also lost messages, holstein ? 
<dkessel> Nairwolf: good morning. You could still do the live session test if you dont want to install yet
<dkessel> Or, you could install the image inside a virtual machine
<Nairwolf> dkessel : thank you, but I suppose that what is really important to test is the installation step, right ? 
<Nairwolf> oh, this is possible ? I didn't know. I've never down. Is it possible with virtualbox ? 
<Nairwolf> Maybe, I'll try to install it after test a little with a live-usb. 
<dkessel> Nairwolf: yes, it is possible with virtualbox
<Nairwolf> I have a back-up system, so, I'll be able to come back if something is wrong. 
<dkessel> OK great Nairwolf. Thanks for helping us!
<Nairwolf> that's okay. I'll send a text here if I find something and if I don't know how to report it. 
<flocculant> Nairwolf: thanks for joining in with the effort :)
<Nairwolf> I wanted to join the xubuntu team and help since a long time, but, I figure you know what it is, always a lot of things to do... 
<flocculant> yea
<Nairwolf> I'm creating the usb live right now
<flocculant> cool 
<Nairwolf> I've never really tested a daily release. What kind of test do you expect ? 
<flocculant> I'm about for ~ 1hour then will be back later
<flocculant> the tests are all written out for you to follow - you gave link earlier 
<Nairwolf> yes, but it's related to installation. It's only what we need to test ? 
<flocculant> oic - yes currently the tests we have are all install tests
<flocculant> we don't do application testing like this at the moment
<Nairwolf> okay, as I said, I'm not sure to be able to test an installation. I think it's a little bit risky in my dev machine. I'll see that
<flocculant> if you've got pc specs for it you can virtual test 
<flocculant> majority of tests done during a cycle are like that
<Nairwolf> okay, i'll try
<Nairwolf> okay, see you, I'll boot on the last daily release
<Nairwolf> It works ;)
<flocculant> cool - just report that to the tracker for us please :)
<Nairwolf> yes, I'll test the installation tomorrow ;) 
<Nairwolf> It's time for me to sleep. Sorry
<flocculant> if someone sees them come back - please tell them they can report the live ... 
<flocculant> knome: ta :)
<flocculant> pleia2: also thanks for fb/g1 posts - especially getting 16.04 into the title \o/
<flocculant> bbl
<bluesabre> morning all
<knome> pleia2, whenever the static updates are done, we are ready to go with the article as well
<flocculant> bluesabre: been thinking about package testing again - think we need to sort this out - I'll put my thoughts in a mail to you and ochosi to start with 
<drc> I assume (yes I know) that the date/time of the 22-1 daily (and the lack of a 23) means that 22-1 is the freeze for the B2 test iso?
<krytarik> drc: That current one, yes - expect there to be at least one more though.
<drc> Never satisfied, are you? :)
<krytarik> Well, fixing bugs. :P
<drc> Well, as ESR once said, "release early, release often".
<drc> Different world then :(
<drc> OK let's boot it and see....
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, This has been marked "Fix Released". 
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/user-setup/+bug/1498544
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1498544 in user-setup (Ubuntu) "Autologin not correctly enabled on 15.10 installations" [High,Fix released]
<flexiondotorg> I've respun the Ubuntu MATE iso and I still have the same issue.
<flexiondotorg> Can you confirm?
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: it's been fixed for clean install - not upgrade
<flocculant> I'll look later 
<flocculant> just got home ... 
<flocculant> not really wanting to respin just for this - when they're going to respin later anyway
<flocculant> it's not something that we'd not release a beta for - so seems rather pointless to create more respins for that
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, Well, better to know now that the fix isn't ;-)
<flocculant> if we were at RC I'd be more worried
<flocculant> and frankly I'm more concerned about the upgrade issue than the clean install one
<flocculant> and - this is what release notes are for 
<flocculant> bah too many vm's running - now I'm confused 
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, Jusat to be clear. Clean install is not fixed.
<flexiondotorg> I haven't tested upgrade today.
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: ok - I'll check when respun to confirm that
<flocculant> seems that the clean install and upgrade will be 2 issues anyway 
<flocculant> I lost yesterdays info so had to redo the upgrade lol 
<drc> Headaches will do that to you :(
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> had a couple lately :|
<drc> called 15.10B2?
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> it's looking ok tbh
<drc> Yeah, using Live USB now
<flocculant> this upgrade/autologin issue isn't something we'd normally look at for tests
<drc> Not lately....
<drc> Is it just us or acreoos the board.
<flocculant> this is *buntu
<drc> s/acreoos/acroos
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<drc> OK, more tea!
<flocculant> gtood call 
<drc> Why do In have a bluetooth icon...I not not have blietooth on this laptop?
<flocculant> upgrade tests aren't even on the tracker for B2 actually
<flocculant> because it's installed by defaukt
<drc> Yeah I saw (or rather didn't)
<flocculant> :)
<drc> FWIW, I just installed 22-1 test b2 3 times, each time checking autologin.  Each time this choice was ignored and I was presented with a login screen.  Looks like it's not just "after the install" that's having problems.
<drc> Hardware, not VM
<flocculant> drc: sorry - you misunderstood me - what you see is what I meant 
<drc> OK...My question yesterday what I was basing it on, sorry I misunderstood.
<drc> what's the one line workaround?
<flocculant> I think you're probably better adding 2 to /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
<drc> OK, what's the 2 line work around? :)
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> confusing myself here
<flocculant> add autologin-user='username' to /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/60-xubuntu.conf 
<drc> There
<flocculant> changing username obviously
<drc> OK, one line?
<flocculant> that is one line ... 
<drc> Let
<drc> 's see...reboot (and change fingers) :(
<flocculant> probably better adding stuff to lightdm.conf
<drc> That worked.
<flocculant> yep
<drc> Woah...xfce4-sensors-plugin now shows up in (installed) USC...without having to installed it thru synaptic :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: do you think we can sell off that last greybird commit (fixing the -compact xfwm4 theme) as a bugfix? (i'd rather avoid another UIFe)
<flocculant> evenign ochosi 
<ochosi> evening flocculant 
<flocculant> ochosi: re that mail - mostly just to keep you in the loop - unless you've got comments of course :)
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks, haven't had a chance to read yet
<ochosi> i'll definitely get back to you if i have input
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: everything is looking pretty good for B2, gmb crash and issues with autologin that no-one actually tests for seems to be about it 
<ochosi> that sounds great
<ochosi> although that gmb bug is annoying...
<ochosi> it has been about for a while if i'm not mistaken
<ochosi> i wonder if it's the same thing bluesabre fixed for parole (it also had a quit-crash due to gstreamer)
<ochosi> can you reproduce the issue?
<ochosi> if so, could you switch to the mplayer backend to see whether it happens with that too?
<flocculant> you tell me how to do that and I can try that
<flocculant> yes - reproduce that easy - just start gmb and try :D
<flocculant> nvm - think I'm a numpty
<ochosi> heh
<flocculant> at least I think I am - settings >audio > set to mplayer
<ochosi> so install mplayer, fire up gmb and then go to settings > audio
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> that's it
<flocculant> be a bit anyway - made mistake of setting library ... don't want to stop it now just in case *that* crashes it :)
<flocculant> ochosi: afraid not :( crashes with mplayer too 
<ochosi> ok, then at least we know it's something else
<flocculant> yep
<Unit193> Better off editing config under /etc/lightdm/ than /usr/share/lightdm/
<ochosi> Unit193: why's that?
<drc> Because it'll be overwritten sooner or later?
<Unit193> Specifically so, with the *-xubuntu.conf file, if it's changed in x-d-s it'll be overwritten without asking (as it's meant to not get edited.)
<ochosi> yeah, editing the -xubuntu.conf file seems to more sensible way to go, no?
<Unit193> ...No, that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying.
<drc>  /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf?
<Unit193> 60-xubuntu.conf is in /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/, better off going with /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf or a file in .conf.d/ 
<Unit193> drc: Right.
<Unit193> Anywho, doesn't matter too much as long as you know x-d-s upgrade may well overwrite it. :P
<drc> Yeah, It's been so long since I've had to manually edit conf files that I forgot about that.
<Unit193> (It'd be better if they installed /usr/share/doc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.gz to /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf, but hey.)
<ochosi> i thought the location in /etc is deprecated?
<Unit193> For installing files to, sure.
<drc> It's simple...check in 15.04 and see where they make the autologin modification(s) and Bob's your uncle.
<Unit193> https://packages.debian.org/sid/i386/lightdm/filelist much better. :P
<drc> That's debian, not 'buntu...are the two related? :)
<Unit193> Sometimes you have to wonder.
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hey sean
<Nairwolf> argh.. I'm doing some bad things with git...
<bluesabre> ochosi: still around?
<bluesabre> ochosi: not likely to be an issue if the changes are only to the compact theme
<Nairwolf> sorry, bad channel
<knome> no, this is a good channel ;P
<drc> Bad channel, no cookie.
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'll try to look in-depth on the gmb issue this weekend
<ochosi> bluesabre: yes, only to that one
<bluesabre> ochosi: ok, I'll look it over and see about creating a uife bug or new upload
<ochosi> i'd say UIFe == skip it
<ochosi> i also haven't done a new point release for greybird yet
<ochosi> another thing i wanted to discuss is adding xubuntu-only patches to elementary-xfce
<ochosi> so basically patches that only live in xubuntu-icon-theme
<ochosi> specifically i'm thinking to update the ubiquity icon to something that makes more sense
<ochosi> the CD metaphor is all nice and dandy, but it could be more xubuntu-specific
<bluesabre> ochosi: non-default, shouldnt need it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfpanel-switch/+bug/1497753/comments/4
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497753 in xfpanel-switch (Ubuntu) "[FFe] xfpanel-switch 1.0.2" [Medium,Fix released]
<ochosi> i'd rather not have that upstream, but wouldn't mind to carry the patch
<knome> ochosi, if we do that (i support it), let's also move the distributor icon there so we can have a xubuntu-brand-free elementary-xfce
<ochosi> knome: my thought exactly
<bluesabre> sounds like a good idea to me
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbabl
<ochosi> ok, i
<knome> yes, you
<ochosi> 'll see whether i can draw up something good before the release
<ochosi> otherwise we can target this for 16.04
<knome> ochosi, do you have something specific in mind?
<ochosi> i guess integrating the xubuntu-logo in an elementary-style circle with the download link
<knome> "elementary-style circle" ?
<ochosi> but i'd make the download link circle white/grey or something so it stands out more clearly against the blue xubuntu logo
<knome> okay
<ochosi> well, elementary icons use a specific combination of shapes/colors
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> so e.g. circles always have at least 2 to 3 layers
<knome> yep..
<ochosi> time to get some sleep, night all
<knome> nighty!
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-24
<pleia2> knome: thanks, I'll try to get the static update done tomorrow, but I remembered today that I have an afternoon+evening event in the valley, so aaarrgghhh my day /o\
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - that's what I was thinking - but had spent more than enough time fiddling with something we don't even test
<Unit193> World respun, fun times.
<flocculant> yea - was expecting it 
<flocculant> it's when I'm not that I hate it :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: iirc we've added panel-switch, greybird accessibility window style and fixed catfish/parole/mugshot since B1 
<flocculant> and have this mime bug new 
<flocculant> and the thunar one 
<flocculant> making start on release notes
<flocculant> knome: also I guess updated docs too 
<flocculant> oh thank the deities for Load Draft ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you could run over WilyWerewolf/Beta2/Xubuntu I think I've got the fixes/bugs and new versions 
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, I've just tested the new spin.
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, Auto login works for fresh installs again :-)
<flocculant> yep
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, I haven't tested upgrading because release-upgrade currently knows knothing about Ubuntu MATE. So, I've got bigger problems there :-)
<flocculant> works all around from current test
<flexiondotorg> Cool.
<flocculant> upgraded with and image
<flocculant> an
<flexiondotorg> I've got a patch for release-upgrader filed.
<flocculant> just waiting for update-manager to finish 
<flexiondotorg> Oooh.
<flexiondotorg> Let me know the results please.
<flexiondotorg> Ubuntu MATE and Xubuntu are practicvally identical in their use of lightdm :-)
<flocculant> will know once I'm back from work in a few hours 
<flexiondotorg> Great.
<flexiondotorg> Thanks for you help on this.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> biab
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1497175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497175 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "File restore from wastebin not working" [Critical,Confirmed]
<flexiondotorg> See that comment by me about Caja.
<flexiondotorg> We have fixed Caja and I've linked to the commit, it might be useful for Thunar.
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, ^^^^^^
<knome> pleia2, no worries
<bluesabre> flocculant: looks good, great job!
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: thanks, will take a look at that with thunar
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, ack
<flocculant> bluesabre: super - added the modemmanager issue on upgrade
<flocculant> also - unless I hear different from you or ochosi I'll mark them ready I guess 
<bluesabre> flocculant: you've got my +1
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<flocculant> okey doke - have a good one :)
<flocculant> marked images ready, done wiki notes, did a basic draft for website
<flocculant> marking B2 as so last year now and forgetting all about it :p
<drc1> I see the autologin problem has been fixed (?).  Out of curiosity, which option was chosen /usr or /etc ?
<flocculant> it would have used /etc
<flocculant> I wasn't really thinking properly yesterday 
<drc1> Headache hangover?
<flocculant> nah - wasn't all that perturbed with the autologin thing - more interested in things we actually tested - but ended up spending hours on it 
<drc1> So, who do we blame? :)
<flocculant> flexiondotorg of course :D
<drc1> OK, Since the autologin got fixed and the eth0->enp9s0 got solved, I see no real problems (for me) with the 15.10 pre/test B2.  Anything I should look at in particular?
<flocculant> drc1: just use it as you would normally - see if anything comes up
<flocculant> often you'll catch in here what people are looking at - if there is anything 
<drc1> OK, now I'm really ticked off...I can't break anything else :(
<flocculant> that's good 
<Unit193> Should I have a go at it?
<flocculant> no
<flocculant> you'll break something no-one else ever uses :p
<Unit193> Or cares about, yep.
<flocculant> :)
<drc1> Maybe <after> the b2 release...don't want to do anything that would delay a release...that would be unCanonical:)
<flocculant> Unit193: as the only other team about - I'm off now - b2 wiki notes done, b2 website almost done - just needs cdimage link checking and publishing :)
<flocculant> drc1: it'll not be delayed now - infinity is in the middle of finishing up 
<Unit193> I can't publish either, but I can likely add links.
<flocculant> I can publish - but likely sleeping :)
<Unit193> bluesabre will show up sooner or later too, so that's fine.
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> I'd hazard a guess that http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/wily/beta-2/ will be right anyway
<knome> i'm also around now
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hey sean
<bluesabre> hiya knome 
<knome> what's up?
<drc1> Oh, by the way knome, kudos on the Wily Werewolf pic in the slideshow.
<drc1> I was wondering how you were going to so it.
<drc1> s/so/do
<bluesabre> knome: nothing yet
<knome> drc1, thanks, and glad you enjoy it
<knome> bluesabre, aha ;)
<bluesabre> knome: aha?
<knome> bluesabre, nvm :P
<drc1> Run, bluesabre, it's a trap!
<bluesabre> knome: aha
<bluesabre> drc1: ah no!
<knome> me? trap? noooo
<drc1> OK then...honey pot.
<drc1> That would make bluesabre the Pooh bear :)
<bluesabre> think think
<knome> bluesabre, question: have you done something to bug 1313682 lately?
<ubottu> bug 1313682 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "Can't hide entries sourced from /usr/share/applications/kde4/" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1313682
<knome> bluesabre, because if not, then the tracker is getting signals that the bug is being fixed (again) yesterday
<knome> bluesabre, and if that's the case, then i'll have to improve the code
<knome> bluesabre, actually "today" in UTC...
<bluesabre> knome: well, yes, I fixed it in the last menulibre upload
<knome> aha :)
<knome> then i guess nvm
<bluesabre> not today though
<knome> yeah, it was on sep 20
<bluesabre> it might have hit stretch today https://packages.debian.org/stretch/menulibre or something
<knome> but that has nothing to do with our bug
<bluesabre> related branch, lp:debian/menulibre  Remove
<knome> aha
<knome> but that's silly, it shouldn't affect the done date
<bluesabre> that's my only guess without looking deeper into it
<knome> actually the branch is still linked
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> copied the Remove text next to it because I am clumsy with my mouse
<knome> :P
<knome> ok
<knome> that's possible
<knome> but it's still silly, and i don't think i'm doing that level of checking
<knome> but i'll check the code
<knome> thanks for the input
<bluesabre> np
<knome> no, i'm not tracking stuff like that
<knome> any possibility the bug title has changed?
<bluesabre> don't think so, pretty sure that's stayed consistent
<knome> also if there was something fishy going on, then why aren't all bugs always updated?
<knome> aha
<knome> did you move the bug from a spec to another?
<bluesabre> I didn't, at least in recent memory
<knome> ok, because that'd be another thing to cause the update
<knome> other than that, no idea
<knome> maybe keep your eyes open for similar stuff
<bluesabre> will do
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> looks like we're almost at beta release
<knome> yep, totally
<Unit193> [19:31:01] Irssi: Topic: +: Released: Trusty 14.04.3, Vivid 15.04, Wily Beta 2
<bluesabre> woot
<bluesabre> knome: poke
<knome> puke
<knome> i mean
<bluesabre> I can also publish, links look good
<knome> pong
<bluesabre> (but cant share)
<knome> feel free to
<knome> i'll tweet and update frontpage widget
<bluesabre> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-15-10-final-beta/
<knome> bluesabre, <3 http://xubuntu.org/news/release/15-10/
<knome> and -> https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/647194635828359168
<bluesabre> knome: knice
<drc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta2/Xubuntu links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta1/Xubuntu
<knome> drc, you still got to be kidding
<drc> OK, I give up :)
<knome> well seriously speaking, i just fixed the link
<knome> so if you reload, it should be fine now
<knome> ;P
<bluesabre> dang it
<Unit193> Or, wiki, so hammer that f5 a few times.
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> hammer once
<bluesabre> wait 5 minutes
<Unit193> Connection timeout, tunnel through the VPS, see the new page?
<bluesabre> :D
<drc> Remind me never to say anything again while knome's still typing :(
<Unit193> s/typing/looking/ >_>
<SwissBot> Unit193: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
<knome> Unit193, ahhahah! even the bot knows you're a bad boy
<drc> s/typing/looking/
<SwissBot> drc meant: "Remind me never to say anything again while knome's still looking :("
<knome> Unit193, if you asked me though, i'd just turn that feature off from the bot
<knome> drc, it was a good catch really, thanks for that :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-25
<bluesabre> bbiab
<knome> hf
<bluesabre> sed
<bluesabre> s/sed/sed/
<SwissBot> bluesabre: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
<bluesabre> boo
<knome> help sed
<knome> SwissBot, help sed!
<SwissBot> no help for topic sed!
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> I need a banana.
<Unit193> s/banana/coffee/
<SwissBot> Unit193 meant: "I need a coffee."
<bluesabre> no, Unit193 needs a banana
<bluesabre> silly bot
<knome> too easy to become annoyed at a bot giving nutritional advice, we don't need one :P
<knome> though the fact that Unit193 needs a banana is true, it IS his payday
<pleia2> g+ and fb the final beta post
<Unit193> \o/
<flocculant> I see the release announcement got screwed up for us yet again
<flocculant> does no-one ever check these things :|
<flocculant> given one person's confusion - I didn't mean *our stuff* but the one on the release m/l ;)
<drc> Quick question...with 15.10 (b1 and b2) I keep getting a "_usr_lib_x86_64-linux-gnu_xfce4_panel_wrapper-1.0.1000.crash" in /var/crash on boot.  Nothing bad happens and it doesn't try to get me to report it, but happens every boot.
<drc> OK, just reported it, says it already known.
<flocculant> yep - saw that reported 
<drc> It was just strange, if I hadn't checked /var/crash , I'd never have know about it.
<flocculant> yep - that's what crash does afaik
<flocculant> or rather I think it's an error - which reports directly without human intervention 
<drc> Well, some problems (such as thunar and calibre errors) result in a popup asking if you want to report something.  If yes, there are 2 additional files (one for gathering data and one showing what was uploaded) placed in /var/crash showing the error report)s).  Clicking on the *.crash and reporting will also place those files there,
<drc> So, no, I don't think it was an auto-report.
<flocculant> yes - if you see no popup - it's just been reported to errors.ubuntu.com I think 
<drc> It would be a Good Thing (tm) if it was :)
<flocculant> ali1234 I think is the one to ask :)
<flocculant> but I'm pretty sure it gets turned off for released versions 
<Nairwolf> Hi, I've missed the test before the release of xubuntu beta @
<Nairwolf> beta2
<Nairwolf> so, now if i want to test, it's better to use the daily, right ? 
<ochosi> bluesabre: idea: expand xfpanel-switch in the next release to save/restore more settings, more like a profile manager. so it would not just change panel layout but also gtk/xfwm theme etc. so redmond would look even more like redmond and gnome2 even more like gnome2 (that sorta implies we ship befitting themes ofc)
<knome> Nairwolf, yes; practically, you have no other option
<Nairwolf> okay ;)
<Nairwolf> I'm donwloading it right now ;)
<knome> Nairwolf, if you downloaded the beta, you could zsync to the daily, so you wouldn't need to download it all again
<drc> knome: But then are you really testing the (live) iso?
<drc> For testing an install, I'd agree.
<knome> i don't understand how it'd be any different for the live ISO?
<knome> zsyncing isn't magical updating of packages inside the ISO
<knome> it's just getting a newer version of it
<knome> as if you'd download it all again
<knome> except that you only download "new" parts
<drc> I'll defer you your knowledge (that's why I asked the question...I didn't know)
<knome> np - now you know
<flocculant> I use zsync all the time
<drc> yup...knowledge is a dangerous comodity though :)
<knome> as is spelling
 * flocculant really must finish his testing for xubuntu post - with all those niceties listed out
<drc> I wouldn't know about that :)
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> evening flocculant 
<flocculant> ochosi: wouldn't that make for a huge number of versions? if we have 5 presets and a bunch of themes? 
<ochosi> nah, i'd do them in a very focused way
<ochosi> not endless combinations
<ochosi> but yeah, maybe that's a different app, i'm not sure
<ochosi> there were plans for doing such a profile manager upstream a few years ago
<ochosi> but sarts never finished it
<flocculant> mmm - not sure how I feel about that - seems to give the appearance that we don't actually like our defaults :)
<ochosi> nah, not really
<flocculant> I can understand panels 
<ochosi> it's just another way of easing in new users and showing them how customizable xfce is
<flocculant> mmm
<ochosi> same as with the gmusicbrowser layouts
<flocculant> I could understand having an accessibility one perhaps
<flocculant> refusing to get into *any* sort of gmb discussion :D
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> well not necessary really, just saying that we've done this sort of thing before
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> yes - but gmb is one thing with x versions
<flocculant> you start fiddling with panels and themes - if you had 5 panels and 5 themes - without cutting down - that's over 100 different perms
<ochosi> no wait, the idea is to have fixed combinations and give users a way of backing up or sharing their settings easily
<ochosi> i don't want 5*5 presets
<ochosi> just 5
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> oic - that's a huge difference obviously :)
<flocculant> that I'd not have a problem with - though I would suggest adding an accessibility one in to the mix 
<ochosi> so if you select gnome2, you'd get adwaita, the gnome icons and the gnome2 panel layout and font set to cantarell (or whatever their default is these days)
<flocculant> yep - I see what you mean now 
<ochosi> if you select redmond, you'd get maybe bluebird and some win7 like xfwm4 theme etc
<flocculant> ack
<ochosi> ideally though those things should end up as containers, carrying everything you need
<ochosi> so the themes and fonts would be inside the tarball as well
<ochosi> otherwise you select a preset and you're missing a depend
<ochosi> and you end up with something that looks messed up
<ochosi> or alternatively we could check whether all depends are installed and show a warning in case it's not the case
<flocculant> yep - that all sounds sensible 
 * ochosi is happy he's finally making *some* sense
<flocculant> with my hat on - I'd not be very amused if it all turned up in March :D
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - long day here - and typed before I'd thought more :) 
<flocculant> sean's reply to the mail "one thing I would like to see are more non-critical bug reports.  Usability bugs, missing icons, inconsistent functionality" covers this idea :)
<ochosi> not even sure we'll implement many new features for 16.04
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i'd prefer to focus on polishing too
<flocculant> yea 
<ochosi> we'll likely have to fix some stuff anyway, with new gtk3 version and potentially other new things floating in
<flocculant> 6 months of making sure we're rock solid will be 6 months well spent 
<flocculant> yep - understand that 
<ochosi> so anyway, you might have to start training your eyes for those elliptical circles after all...
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> ;)
<flocculant> I can see the difference when they're like this http://bit.ly/1JuapXL
<ochosi> alt + mousewheel is your friend
<ochosi> (also, i love that mushroom!)
<flocculant> absolutely it is :D
<flocculant> oh yes - I can see that now ... 
<flocculant> bluesabre: re bug 1497170 you comment about xfce, but this is also seen on ubuntu - thought I'd make that plain if I hadn't previously
<ubottu> bug 1497170 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "New file creation - not opening with file editor" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1497170
<flocculant> that thing's really nosy :p
<knome> heh
<pleia2> knome: still awake for a bit?
<flocculant> I think he ran away all scared of Friday 
<drc> Bah...knome ain't 'friad of nuthin; !
<flocculant> pleia2: I assume you did fb and g+ - thanks :)
<pleia2> flocculant: final beta announcement? yep!
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> the m/l announcement failed to list our wiki notes - not a big deal - but I do wish they'd get a pair of other eyes on it 
<pleia2> agreed
<flocculant> though as someone in offtopic said - at least we weren't Mate Xubuntu this time :D
<pleia2> Xbuntu? :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> on the other hand don't want to moan given the help they do give us when it's needed ;)
 * pleia2 nods
<flocculant> I'll help when it's final release ... 
<pleia2> I won't
<flocculant> I mean - I'll help with the release notes :D
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> I'm going to be wandering around japan that day
<flocculant> oh nice :)
<flocculant> I'd love to be in a position to wander the globe working 
<flocculant> bit offtopic ... 
<drc> Not if pleia2 takes some stickers with her :)
<flocculant> ha ha ha
<flocculant> pleia2: got to say - I like to see (and read ofc) the Xubuntu at ... posts 
<pleia2> I'm glad :)
<pleia2> they keep me motivated
<flocculant> yep I bet :)
<flocculant> should use those as an example on the comm m/l 
<pleia2> good idea
<flocculant> \o/ 
<flocculant> still got it ... 
<pleia2> hehe
<flocculant> make sure to add an emojii or two 
<flocculant> :p
<pleia2> x_x
<flocculant> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-26
<bluesabre> O.O
<knome> pleia2, sorry, nope, was a long day
<flocculant> morning knome :)
<knome> hello flocculant 
<knome> yep, other flavors didn't fancy drawing a "real" werewolf either: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kubuntu-15-10-beta-2/
<flocculant> ha ha 
<dkessel> that's a nice half-werewolf :)
<dkessel> good morning btw
<flocculant> hey dkessel :)
<dkessel> i just checked out the PDF version of the docs the first time. good work guys! i really like the layout and formatting
<dkessel> oh, and russian and french could be included this cycle. i guess mentioning the 70% threshold helped motivate some people, slickymaster :)
<dkessel> hey flocculant :)
<knome> hey dkessel 
<knome> dkessel, thanks for the feedback/praise! if you have any ideas on how to improve the PDF docs though... :)
<dkessel> was that new release of xfdesktop included in wily? i only read about it, but could not test it at the time
<knome> just let us know
<dkessel> knome: huomenta! no, nothing to criticise at the moment :)
<knome> ooh ooh
<knome> ;)
<knome> guten morgen
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> dkessel: yes, it made it in
<bluesabre> knome: kubuntu
<bluesabre> 's site is much cleaner than I remember
<bluesabre> I guess we're not the only ones with a nice web designer on board
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<flocculant> you always turn up just as I'm off out :)
<knome> bluesabre, they have recently updated the design
<bluesabre> flocculant: :D
<bluesabre> makes you wonder if I do it on purpose
<bluesabre> >.>
<knome> hah
<knome> ok, time to go
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm sure you do :D
<bluesabre> bye knome
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> how're things?
<bluesabre> good good
<bluesabre> getting ready to start working on something
<ochosi> what did you think of extending xfpanel-switch?
<bluesabre> well, I think that'd be better as xfce appearance settings
<bluesabre> since it's basically a reimplementation of themes, which gnome used to do
<ochosi> that'd also be an option, yeah
<ochosi> my main concern with xfpanel-switch is the lack of checking whether the needed extensions/plugins are installed
<ochosi> that'd be high up on my wishlist for 2.0
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> not sure what the easiest way of checking for plugins is though
<bluesabre> oh, I just remembered, can you upstream the xfce4-panel integration code so we can get some translations for "Backup and restore"
<ochosi> ah right
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> yeah, that sounds like a good thing to do
<ochosi> guess i should add that as a workitem for myself
<ochosi> not sure though whether to target w or x
<ochosi> andrzejr: hey! we discussed this previously, but are you ok with me upstreaming our xfce4-panel patch to display a "backup and restore" button in the panel config if xfpanel-switch is installed?
<bluesabre> we have until october 8th for non-translation pack translations
<bluesabre> brb
<ochosi> right, i guess i'll try to get this done asap then
<ochosi> anyway, added the workitem
<bluesabre> :)
<andrzejr> ochosi, sure. Can you do that or do you need my help?
<bluesabre> andrzejr: I think ochosi is an admin, should have push rights for everything
<ochosi> andrzejr: yeah, i'll take care of it either tonight or tomorrow
<ochosi> bluesabre: wanna pull those translations in as a patch then too or shall we do a translation release of the panel?
<ochosi> andrzejr: humm, shall i push that to the 4.12 branch or master..?
<ochosi> 4.12 sorta feels wrong since it's a new feature, even if it's a small one
<ochosi> it's a bit confusing that the branch for 4.12 was created later then the release. anyhow, i see there are a few more fixes, i guess we could do a 4.12.1 bugfix/translations release after a bit
<ochosi> bluesabre: humm, wasn't there some additional stuff you did because the settings ui was precompiled into the code or something..? (i've prepped the patch locally on top of master already now, so basically just need to push the button)
<ochosi> gotta run now, i can push this anytime later
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, since we don't run --enable-maintainer-mode in the package build process, I had to dump it into the precomiled _ui.h file
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess working on that appearance thing you mentioned would be for xfce 4.16, we should really focus on making it gtk3 first
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, I think I'd agree with that
<bluesabre> maybe even 4.14
<bluesabre> 1 new dialog might be easier than 2-3 converted dialogs
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> potentially, but the code for that 1 dialog would have to be written first
<bluesabre> well, its already mostly there
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> btw i have another hour or so, if you feel like hacking on something
<bluesabre> and we'd probably just borrow most of it from mate :D
<ochosi> also, i'm still waiting for gitolite to update my perms, seems i've never pushed to the panel repo myself...
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> ochosi: ever work on thunar?
<ochosi> not much
<ochosi> only added that progressbar feature to the props dialog
<ochosi> and i read parts of the code, but yeah, that's a huge codebase
<bluesabre> fun
<ochosi> why? planning on working on that?
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1497175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497175 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "File restore from wastebin not working" [Critical,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> the mate folks found a fix for caja, might also apply for thunar
<ochosi> right, better to ask harald or peter to take a look
<bluesabre> I'll probably see if I can find the relevant code myself
<bluesabre> the issue affects me as well, so will be easy to test
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> that's good
<bluesabre> ochosi: so, this seems pretty minor... do we particularly want it for 15.10? https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/pull/105
<ochosi> it's just an improvement for the compact theme, it's not particularly important to push it in
<ochosi> from my pov we can focus on bugfixes for 15.10 and ... well 16.04 :>
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> it's more important to ship the a11y theme than that
<bluesabre> and we did get that one out for b2
<bluesabre> looks like the mate fix might be relevant
<bluesabre> $ grep -rn "trash::"
<bluesabre> thunarx/thunarx-file-info.h:48:  "trash::*," \
<bluesabre> ChangeLog:19372:    Make restore from trash work again. Add trash::* to default attributes.
<bluesabre> ChangeLog:19376:    to read trash::orig-file but it's actually trash::orig-path. Last but
<ochosi> thunar_application_restore_files was where i was heading
<ochosi> but i haven't looked at mate's fix yet
<bluesabre> https://github.com/mate-desktop/caja/pull/459/files
<ochosi> yup, already looking at that ;)
<ochosi> so a workaround in thunar-file.c?
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> that part already uses what is patched in caja
<ochosi> at least these parts: https://github.com/mate-desktop/caja/commit/bc11ee765a8334020f02fd7802d6eb5802b80c33
<ochosi> so not sure what to do about this
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> hm
<ochosi> are we sure they were experiencing the same issue?
 * ochosi starts reading the bugrepoprt
<ochosi> i'd rather look for the bug in xfdesktop not trashing files correctly
<bluesabre> "Open wastebasket - right click on deleted file - select restore"
<bluesabre> sounds like thunar to me
<ochosi> also because it has been confirmed with another file manager
<ochosi> so you can confirm that from places other than the desktop?
<ochosi> cause it works fine for me within thunar
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> create it in home, delete it, try to restore it, fails
<ochosi> delete file from home folder > restore > restored
<bluesabre> wily?
<ochosi> nope
<ochosi> 15.10
<bluesabre> so, wily?
<ochosi> err
<ochosi> sry
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> i meant to write:
<ochosi> well, you know what i meant to write...
<bluesabre> !15.10
<ubottu> Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) will be the 23rd release of Ubuntu. Discussion in #ubuntu+1
<bluesabre> woops factoid
<ochosi> so if it works in vivid, i'd say it's not a thunar bug for sure
<bluesabre> well, its a change in gvfs most likely
<ochosi> and adding workarounds in it sounds fugly
<bluesabre> and thunar needs patched to support new gvfs
<ochosi> aha
<ochosi> wasn't aware of gvfs breakage
<ochosi> api break?
<bluesabre> probably, or just doing something for years because it worked, even though gvfs did something years ago
<ochosi> hm, well as i said, to me it looks like we're already doing what fixed it for caja
<bluesabre> could be we need to add to the namespace in thunarx/thunarx-file-info.h:39
<ochosi> add what?
<ochosi> it's already trash::*
<ochosi> and caja actually took out the trash-namespace references and replaced them with g_file references
<ochosi> (or maybe i misunderstand this all, after all it's late over here :))
<ochosi> plus are you sure this is the same issue?
<bluesabre> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=0164cdb934fb1c46a8d77dda6a6799f377b73fc3
<bluesabre> when changing it way back then, he also added the properties to thunarx-file-info.h
<bluesabre> could be the missing piece
<bluesabre> I'll hack on it a bit and see if I make an progress
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i still dont really get it
<bluesabre> me neither
<bluesabre> but if the patch works, yay
<ochosi> cause the relevant portion in thunar_file_get_original_path has been updated already
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> so i wouldn't know what to patch
<ochosi> back then it used the trash:orig-path reference
<ochosi> but it doesn't anymore
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> now it uses the constants
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> like caja
<bluesabre> but the constants are not in that fix
<bluesabre> *file
<ochosi> you mean they have to be defined?
<bluesabre> nvm
<bluesabre> I'm confusing
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> the constands come from gvfs, no?
<ochosi> constants
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> anyhoo, you lost me there - i'm still not sure what you're trying to patch :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12584084/
<bluesabre> if it works
<bluesabre> testing now
<ochosi> woot, that is strange if you ask me
<ochosi> still compiling?
<bluesabre> annnnnnnd
<bluesabre> didn't work
<ochosi> i'd love to say i'm surprised...
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> suppose I'll see if there is an upstream bug or not, then poke folks
<ochosi> i'm really surprised if this bug also appears in nautilus tbh
<ochosi> s/i'm/i'd be/
<SwissBot> ochosi meant: "i'd be really surprised if this bug also appears in nautilus tbh"
<ochosi> thanks SwissBot, good boy.
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> that's why i thought xfdesktop might be at the bottom of this
<ochosi> (you know, as in: below all other windows)
<bluesabre> ugh
<bluesabre> nautilus removed single file restore
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, but the delete and restore both take place in thunar
<ochosi> how... user-friendly
<bluesabre> in my test at least
<bluesabre> ochosi: removed everything from my trash
<bluesabre> also affects nautilus it seems
<ochosi> humm, in v it also works from the desktop
<bluesabre> I'll go ahead and tag thunar and nautilus as affected
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1497175
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1497175 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "File restore from wastebin not working" [Critical,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> tagged both
<ochosi> good
<ochosi> at least it's not just our problem
<ochosi> i wonder though whether this is even reproducible upstream
<bluesabre> potentially
<bluesabre> now we can watch if a patch comes in for gvfs or nautilus
<ochosi> sounds like a fun activity ;)
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-27
<flocculant> bluesabre: just installed pcmanfm and caja - not restoring from wastebasket in either of those 
<flocculant> in addition caja really hates being closed and just restarts itself :D
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> so this is really a very general regression in gvfs then
<ochosi> if one of you is around during the day tomorrow you could ping seb128 or Laney and let them know about the bug
<ochosi> it's really odd though that nobody else would've noticed...
<ochosi> bluesabre, flocculant ^
<flocculant> indeed
<flocculant> I'll do it the other way later - install thunar/pcfmanfm and caja in ubuntu vm 
<ochosi> thanks flocculant 
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - ok so installed thunar, pcmanfm and caja in ubuntu daily - same issue (Which I expected)
<flocculant> bluesabre: also - installing thunar in ubuntu - not able to get to it from the dash (search thingummy) it just appears to show thunar-volman (possibly the issue that we had with 2 thunars in menulibre) do you want me to report that? 
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: just fyi - caja in ubuntu sees the restore from trash fail 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, that's likely the same issue
<bluesabre> flocculant: can probably launch it as file manager, maybe
<bluesabre> and morning all
<knome> what's up bluesabre 
<bluesabre> not much
<flocculant> morning both :)
<knome> heya flocculant 
<knome> slow sunday then
<bluesabre> just waking up
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea - probably - but wasn't that bothered tbh :D
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> knome: slower now - was a bit busy :)
<knome> flocculant, oh
<knome> been really slow for me :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> woke up late, then have eaten lunch...
<knome> watched some telly, playing tetris
<knome> :D
<flocculant> :D
<knome> you know, the usual sunday stuff
<knome> next i think coffee
<knome> and some more food
<flocculant> that sounds like a good sunday plan ;)
<knome> totally
<knome> and what kind of plans do you have there?
<flocculant> book to pretend to read, an hour of procrastination for this blog post I'm doing, some music to listen to, some more food, beer and feet up :D
<knome> lol
<knome> not a bad plan either
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - whoever pings seb or laney re the restore bug might do the same with the gvfs one, I'd probably think that more important than fiddling with deleted stuff :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: found an interesting bug, probably related @bar(input):button2
<bluesabre> sorry about that, failed paste
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1495943
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1495943 in gvfs (Ubuntu) "gvfs-trash doesn't add "trash::" attrs to file which is moved to Trash" [Critical,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> in fact, I'd say thats the same bug with more details
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> marked mine as duplicate
<flocculant> and yea - log out and you can restore files previously deleted 
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks
<flocculant> np
<bluesabre> going to take a look at the gmb crash today
<bluesabre> see if I can get to the bottom of it
<flocculant> ok 
<flocculant> I did have a look after Simon prompting to see if changing backend made a difference - but no change
<bluesabre> flocculant: from gstreamer to mplayer?
<flocculant> yea - he thought it might be similar to something else - can't remember offhand now what :D
<bluesabre> darn
<bluesabre> it'd be similar to the parole issue with dereferencing on close
<flocculant> yep - I tried mplayer and mpg123 as well 
<bluesabre> but since its not gstreamer, nope
<bluesabre> will be more fun to debug
<flocculant> yea - that was the offhand bit I didn't remember :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: there is a bug reported 
<bluesabre> flocculant: have the link for that?
<flocculant> bug 1401609 
<ubottu> bug 1401609 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmusicbrowser crashes on close" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1401609
<flocculant> sorry :p
<flocculant> when I apported it - but didn't report I got the same gmusicbrowser crashed with SIGSEGV in g_signal_emit_valist() 
<flocculant> so just tagged that vivid bug with wily
<flocculant> bluesabre: simon put a backtrace in one of the dupes if that helps - 1435043
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> bluesabre: just read a comment in that one ^^ - which I can seem to reproduce 
<flocculant> just doing a bit more mucking about here
<bluesabre> about the crash only happening in shimmer layout?
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> it did close without crash
<flocculant> now it doesn't
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> ok this is odd 
<flocculant> any sort of layout other than Lists, Library & Context and it crashes
<flocculant> opened and closed a dozen times in that layout - no crashes
<flocculant> bluesabre: don't know if that's much help or just more facepalming for you - but it's what I got to give ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: I think that helps
<bluesabre> thanks!
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so can confirm that behaviour in live daily - but it's not as simple as 1 works others don't 
<flocculant> if it helps I can list which work 
<bluesabre> flocculant: sure
<bluesabre> gotta run to the store to pick up some light bulbs quickly
<bluesabre> bbiab
<andrzejr> ochosi, done
<flocculant> bluesabre: here you go then - http://pastebin.com/Q4JWrDvu
<flocculant> bbl
<bluesabre> yay, I can see again
<bluesabre> flocculant: oh wow
<flocculant> hopefully - that's enough opening and closing to prove things work when they do :D
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> geezers
<drc> yes?
<knome> maybe it's a certain layout function that breaks it
<flocculant> drc: ha ha 
<flocculant> bluesabre: set default one that works and walk away backwards - telling to good gmb, good gmb as you do so :D
<flocculant> s/to/it
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> anyway - hope that helps some :)
<pleia2> knome: can you add this to the static repo? http://static.xubuntu.org/news/
 * pleia2 continues checking for anything missing
<knome> pleia2, pushing right now
<knome> (and yeah, i totally need to make the internet switch)
<pleia2> ty <3
<pleia2> I think that's the only thing that was missing
<knome> ok
<pleia2> once that change syncs, I'll blow away the current /srv/static.xubuntu.org and replace it with `bzr branch lp:xubuntu-website/static-assets /srv/static.xubuntu.org --use-existing-dir` and it'll be all so easy forever more
<knome> :)
<flocculant> hi and bye pleia2 :)
<pleia2> o/ flocculant \o
<knome> oh shoo
<knome> pleia2, revision 7 up
<pleia2> oh, hah, I was like "but we were on revision 11" and then I realized what your interjection meant :)
<knome> :D
<pleia2> thank you
<knome> yw
<pleia2> and done
<knome> great
<knome> now i'm also happy to let the flyer article go
<pleia2> ok, I think we'll do that tomorrow
<pleia2> because better social media traffic on weekdays
<knome> wfm
<knome> flocculant, what was the decision for pre-final-beta support agin?
<knome> +1?
<flocculant> because ubuntu +1 is pants for anything but ubuntu and a bit of kubuntu
<knome> no i mean where should people go with their questions pre-final-beta?
<flocculant> no idea 
<flocculant> here maybe
<knome> hah
<knome> ughhh
<knome> NO
<knome> :P
<flocculant> :D
<knome> "hey, i installed this pre-alpha system and it totally broke everything. developers, HALP?"
<knome> NO.
<flocculant> hah
<flocculant> you just need a "Reinstall it" factoid 
<knome> people who help us can totally still ask here
<knome> and by that i mean that if you are doing legimitate testing
<knome> not just "want the new awesomeness right now and expect others to fix it for you"
<flocculant> yea - I tend to try to tie up LP and irc where it's possible - unless it's obvious that someone is helping by testing 
<knome> i don't remember exactly, but doesn't mainbuntu have some kind of "no bugs for development releases before X" policy as well?
<flocculant> the +1 channel goes ghostly if you mention xfce 
<flocculant> no idea - never go that channel
<knome> not support, i meant real bugs
<flocculant> that's something to do with apport I think 
<ali1234> what do you mean by "mainbuntu"
<ali1234> because #ubuntu is exclusively for support anyway
<flocculant> ok " etc/apport/crashdb.conf: Enable crash reports on Launchpad for vivid"  Mon, 26 Jan 
<knome> ubuntu desktop and core packages
<ali1234> there's certainly no limitation on reporting bugs in development releases
<knome> flocculant, yeah, that too, but i think the same ruling goes for manually reported bugs
<ali1234> that would be silly. so agin, what do you mean?
<knome> yes there are
<ali1234> apport requires you to be up to date and on official repos, that's it
<knome> ali1234, whatever.
<knome> i'm off.
<ochosi> thanks andrzejr 
<ochosi> flocculant: not wanting to diminish your testing/evidence, but in vivid even list&lib and context layout crashes gmb...
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<flocculant> ochosi: ok 
<flocculant> wonder why it wasn't seen during vivid tests then 
<flocculant> ochosi: must have been ok on 2014-12-07 
<flocculant> knome: as the only person I know who uses it - do you not see these crashes?
<knome> flocculant, nope, but i run vivid still on the desktop (where i use gmb)
<flocculant> mmm - so on the 7th it was tested and ok ( jjfrv8 wouldn't have not mentioned it) and on the 11th brainwash reported it crashing
<knome> if that makes a difference..
<flocculant> knome: so it works in vivid for you? 
<knome> yep - AND i should even be using the version from the repositories :P
<flocculant> I just booted the vivid image - immediately crashed
<knome> i can check when i'm on the desktop again
<knome> from which version have you been seeing this?
<flocculant> 1.1.13 in vivid and 1.14 here
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll try to remember...
<flocculant> oh lovely 
<knome> what? :)
<knome> me trying to remember?
<flocculant> now it crashes with layout it didn't crash with before
<knome> :D
<flocculant> no that ^^
<knome> great
<flocculant> :D
<knome> so maybe it's not related to layout options after all..
<flocculant> yep
<knome> oh hello ochosi
<flocculant> mind you - this install could be all over the place - it does have our ppa's for one
<ochosi> hi knome 
<knome> flocculant, and you would not call my install from 2011 with loads of customizations and upgrade-breakages "all over the place"? :P
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer
<flocculant> copy that to X ;)
<knome> sure
<knome> i still don't think gmb is likely the best default player
<flocculant> right
<knome> so it's not like we're refusing to make the switch with ochosi...
<flocculant> did you ever get details of what that poll said about media players? 
<knome> flocculant, i haven't processed the correlation with non-power-users and the satisfaction about media players yet
<flocculant> ok
<knome> but really, i'm pretty sure regardless what the default player was, about 75% would be unhappy about it..
<flocculant> well yea - that'll be humans for you 
<flocculant> knome: I thought apport off might have been what you'd seen :)
<knome> yeah, well, good to have that sorted out
<flocculant> yep
<knome> then what is our policy then?
<knome> ochosi, ping
<knome> re: where do we point people for support before final beta?
<flocculant> m/l perhaps - cc the quality one 
<knome> that's better than this channel...
<ochosi> the options are #ubuntu+1, ml,..?
<flocculant> especially as supposedly bug squad is *part* of quality now
<flocculant> ochosi: issue with +1 is that it's good for ubuntu/kubuntu - not so much anything else 
<knome> ochosi, the options are anything we want
<bluesabre> we might also test gmb with vivid installed vs vivid updated
<bluesabre> might have been some library update at the source of all this
<knome> ochosi, it's just about a social agreement
<flocculant> bluesabre: vivid from the live session - immediate crash
<knome> and if we had that policy, we could post it to the website, so people could know it before they came to place X telling about their pre-alpha crashes
<flocculant> bluesabre: also 4 days between package test pass and bug report
<flocculant> knome: but we'd really want any talking to include bug # 
<bluesabre> flocculant: good to know
<knome> flocculant, sure, we can tell them that too
<knome> flocculant, though as you know, we can tell people this and that, and they might still just do the other
<flocculant> knome: yea ofc - but if there's a 'policy' at least we can complain a bit while helping 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> and the more we tell people - hopefully ... 
<knome> i was thinking about a page under the developer area
<flocculant> I'd hold fire on that
<knome> and then in the support page, say sth like "For support on development releases, see X"
<knome> sure, i'm not pushing anything out now
<flocculant> I'm half way through this 'tome' I'm doing - might be better not being just a site blog post
<bluesabre> we can also have a dev faq on the wiki... "Known installation issues", etc
<knome> :)
<flocculant> trying to get everything in one place somewhere 
<knome> pleia2, oh haha! apparently, i've dropped stuff we need in extras.css!
<knome> pleia2, sorry! :)
<ochosi> sry, was afk again...
<flocculant> :)
<knome> ochosi, no problem...
<ochosi> so how big is this issue? how many are showing up at our doorsteps with these issues?
<ochosi> (just so i know what we're dealing with)
<ochosi> and hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> brb
<knome> i've seen maybe about 5 this cycle
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think it might be something like a library update. there definitely were o such gmb crashes pre-vivid
<flocculant> ochosi: if you mean the help pre beta - then hardly any 
<knome> it's not a huge amount i guess, but otoh, it feels stupid to have no place to point them at
<knome> since if we do only final beta and later support in #x, that means we don't do pre-final-beta support there
<ochosi> so were those issues mostly xubuntu-specific i presume?
<knome> does that mean there IS no pre-final-beta support?
<knome> tbh i can't remember
<knome> and didn't dig too deep into them
<flocculant> ochosi: 1 I saw was quite generic, 1 was more us that I remember
<ochosi> yeah, from my pov there is no support for pre-final-beta. if ppl come i would expect them to "report bugs", not look for help
<knome> should we point them to #ubuntu+1 at all?
<knome> or just tell them to file bugs?
<knome> and if they file bugs, should they notify us on the mailing list of them or sth?
<flocculant> I'd not expect us to support as such - but maybe support with what they're possible steps are I would
<ochosi> so i wouldn't set up a separate place for them. if they wanna report an issue that is xubuntu specific (but are too lazy for LP) they could tell us about that here
<knome> but meh
<knome> ochosi, i'm actually actively opposed to THAT
<knome> i'm not opposed to helping people why actually help us with testing/qa and stuff on this channel
<ochosi> getting to know like this is better than not at all
<flocculant> I don't see an issue if someone who's actively testing for us being able to pop here or m/l 
<knome> but i don't want the average joe to come here and whine about his broken pre-alpha installation
<ochosi> well naturally
<flocculant> that ^^
<ochosi> that was not what i was suggesting
<knome> well... you kind of were ;)
<knome> is "i reported a bug" enough to warrant them whining here?
<ochosi> if there are bugs, they can come here, and we send them to launchpad. if they don't end up filing bugreports at least we heard about it here
<knome> what about this:
<knome> pre-beta, if you're clearly not actively involved, we tell them to report bugs and send a mail to the mailing list
<knome> that way we can also get the traffic archived
<knome> because people can chime in and say "me too" or "not me" - and it doesn't get buried in endless irc logs
<ochosi> right, it gets buried in ml archives instead :)
<flocculant> yep - and people can at least suggest things
<knome> but it's easily findable.
<flocculant> well we could ask people to sensibly title thread 
<knome> if a stranger reports a critical bug, we can THEN always ask them to join us here
<ochosi> look, i don't mind either way. obviously we're not discussing where to send "masses of ppl" for support, so i think this is no biggie
<knome> ochosi, my point here is that if support for final beta is at #x, then i don't see why pre-final would be here
<knome> because at that point, all non-released support should be here
<knome> because it makes no sense to suddenly drag it away from here
<ochosi> yeah, but as i said i don't think there should be generic pre-final support at all. yeah fine, if ppl are involved then naturally they will discuss this sort of stuff here. but the average joe user shouldn't get help "fixing his alpha install" because he shouldn't depend on it anyway
<ochosi> unless he wants to actually fix a bug, not the install
<knome> yes. absolutely.
<knome> so what do we say for the average joes?
<knome> do we tell them to file bugs and hope we find them later?
<ochosi> file bugs, tag them
<knome> ok
<knome> should they go with the exploratory testing tags?
<ochosi> but not bugs like "my bluetooth headset doesnt work with xubuntu x alpha anymore"
<ochosi> i'd personally mostly be interested in things that can be fixed by us or that affect our basic user experience
<flocculant> we need clear guidance on what;s us and what's general buntu 
<ochosi> i think it's hard to draw that line. if there's a bug in gtk (or gvfs) it affects everyone
<ochosi> (well not kubuntu)
<flocculant> then it's simple - if it's us - mail us, use this tag
<ochosi> yup
<flocculant> yes - but some things are obviously us 
<ochosi> more or less. and the borderline cases won't be the majority i guess
<flocculant> anything else - quality m/l and lp
<knome> avg joe can't know the line
<knome> and it's totally really hard to draw
<flocculant> not for the obvious things it's not
<knome> no
<knome> but for all things
<flocculant> so a short list of tell us - anything else elsewhere
<knome> tell us - on the ml?
<flocculant> don't see why not 
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll write a draft at some point then
<knome> another question:
<flocculant> how long is list going to be of things we can directly do something about 
<knome> do we need http://xubuntu.org/dev/calendar/ any more?
<flocculant> I'd say no - we have that on tracker now
<ochosi> sry folks, gotta get some sleep
<bluesabre> back
<flocculant> good night ochosi :)
<knome> ochosi, np - i know you need it :P
<knome> ochosi, nighty!
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi
<ochosi> thanks, ttyl :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: xfce4-panel patch is upstream btw, so i hope translations for it land soon
<bluesabre> ochosi: great, will sync any translations before freeze
<knome> bluesabre, i take that applies to any other packages as well :P
<bluesabre> mhm
<bluesabre> ochosi: you need better examples, we would want to know if bluetooth breaks since ubuntu flavors (but not ubuntu) ship blueman
<bluesabre> we're in a good position to support that ;)
<bluesabre> ... and I think I did the last upload of that... :D
<flocculant> I guess that's what we need to know - things we're in a position to support :)
<bluesabre> it might be a good idea to have a list of things we have instead of ubuntu, so we can request tests with the other application
<bluesabre> parole broken - test totem to see if it works first
<flocculant> yep
<bluesabre> cant delete a file in thunar, how about nautilus
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> quite a bit of thinking about this to do :)
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea exactly 
<flocculant> I always breathe a sigh of relief when ubuntu breaks the same way :D
<bluesabre> me too
<bluesabre> I'm ok at developing, awful at debugging
<bluesabre> getting better
<bluesabre> but still so so bad
<flocculant> that's something I wish I was better at - if only to take some load off 
<flocculant> anyway - bed for me I think - night all :)
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<bluesabre> night flocculant 
<knome> bluesabre, does "uninterruptible power supply" mean "power supply that can not be uninterrupted"
<knome> or is there another meaning for "uninterrupted"
<knome> i mean "can not be interrupted"
<knome> and what does that really even mean?
<pleia2> knome: did you need to add it back? i can update it when needed
<pleia2> on my phone now, but can ssh ;)
<knome> pleia2, it's ok for now, we might do that stuff in another way soon anyway
<knome> and i fixed the obvious fail already
<pleia2> ok, thanks :)
<bluesabre> knome: that's basically a battery that stays charged by the wall and provides continuous power output, even during brownouts or power outages
<bluesabre> or is this a monty python sketch?
<knome> bluesabre, nope... :P
<knome> bluesabre, this is translating to finnish..
<bluesabre> I have one next to my desk
<bluesabre> saves us a lot of headache
<knome> oh...
<knome> a lamp just lit up over the top of my head
<knome> UPS!
 * bluesabre nods
<knome> of course
<knome> now it makes perfect sense
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-26
<flocculant> bluesabre: see the ontopic offtopic stuff :p
<flocculant> we can at least get testing on gnome-screensaver sorted
<flocculant> done an mp waiting for your ack or nack in the morning, then I'll get that in and resend test call 
<flocculant> https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/ubuntu-manual-tests/1685/+merge/306782
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> flocculant, looks good, acked the test case
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-27
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - merged and calls to arms sent out - again :p
<flocculant> sadly normal user locking and light-locker isn't the same type of thing seemingly
<flocculant> bluesabre: given you'll have to make the call - how much time do we have - and how are we going to involve team ?
<bluesabre> flocculant, final decision should probably be before Friday, so we can reach out and get clearance from ubuntu-land before the weekend
<bluesabre> flocculant, knome, maybe we can have another meeting this week to get all this out to team
<flocculant> bluesabre: wfm
<flocculant> bluesabre: if knome can't do one - I guess one of us should
<flocculant> bluesabre:I should tink before triping - really needs to be either ad-hoc or Wednesday - I can be about ~21:00 to 22:30 UTC for this
<bluesabre> flocculant, I usually get home around 21:30, and can also be around briefly ~16:00 for my lunch break
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - not sure I'll be about at your lunch break - perhaps in the 'night' then
<flocculant> I can manage to stay up one night this cycle :D
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> if 'we' don't hear from knome before tonight - let's just call one tomorrow
<knome> well contrary to the usual schedule, i can make a meeting tomorrow
<flocculant> ohai knome :)
<knome> hullo
<flocculant> knome: can you call one then - you're up next :)
<knome> i'll do that after a phone call
<flocculant> awesome - thanks :)
<bluesabre> roll call after that
<flocculant> mmmm food
<flocculant> hopefully we'll have more results on the tracker by then too
 * flocculant wanders off again
<flocculant> thanks knome :)  (I did time url for it)
<flocculant> bluesabre: doublechecked that *our* guest sessioon bug actually is the same profile issue as the Ubuntu one - appears to be so - commented in our one and duped it to the one with security team assigned
<bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
<knome> flocculant, yeah, thanks for taking care of the wiki, the thought left my brain quickly...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: bit of chat about us in -release - and some pings for you :p
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-28
<flocculant> bluesabre: following robert ancell's comment on bug 1627304 - tested that - works to lock session, get to guest, logout, get back to session
<ubottu> bug 1627304 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "User locking problems - guest login crashing" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627304
<flocculant> obviously without light-locker involvement
<flocculant> bluesabre: I've narrowed this locking issue down to close to a date ... http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/universe/x/xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-default-settings_16.10.1/changelog
<flocculant> somewhere roundabout 31st July
<flocculant> reinstalled light-locker, purged x-d-s, installed the 16.04 version - all works ok 
<flocculant> not had time to check if previous apparmor thing works with that old version 
<flocculant> yes I did 
<flocculant> so with old apparmor service, old x-d-s then everything works as expected
<bluesabre> flocculant, so, its probably related to systemd...
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/yakkety/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+changelog
<Unit193> He's in -release now with pitti.
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> Unit193, actually, the xfce session was never migrated fully, still using startxfce4
<Unit193> Well no, it wouldn't.
<bluesabre> so...
<bluesabre> <Ukikie> bluesabre: Look at -session too.
<bluesabre> was more informational than anything?
<Unit193> No, there was something I thought did an override, but couldn't remember.  Looking now.
<bluesabre> ok, thank you
<Unit193> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/275014126/xfce4-session_4.12.1-3ubuntu1_4.12.1-3ubuntu2.diff.gz I see.  Well I guess we'll see if user sessions work. :D
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, in case you miss it, we uploaded a new xubuntu-default-settings (16.10.2) that should resolve the locking issues
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r627 Revert systemd user unit changes (LP: #1622303), release 16.... (by Sean Davis)
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: \o/
<flocculant> so that works - and so does guest, without fiddling with that apparmor profile
<bluesabre> flocculant, neat!
<flocculant> so - panic over till it's akxwi-dave's turn :p
<flocculant> of course I'll keep the panic ticking over until that new x-d-s lands in the image ...
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> not really even sure why I started looking there this morning - but I did :)
<bluesabre> much appreciated
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> welcome - glad we don't need to worry about changing the locker
<knome> woot
<flocculant> yup
<knome> nice
<knome> btw, while relatively unlikely, i *might* be a bit late for the meeting today - if that happens, just boot the meeting and i'll pick the chair when i pop in
<flocculant> ack - I'm relaxed about that meeting now :p
<knome> yup
<bluesabre> I'll probably be at least a few minutes late for the meeting
<bluesabre> traffic some days is lovely, some days !@#$@!$
<flocculant> tell me
<flocculant> I will double check before meeting that reverted x-d-s plus what's going to change in the app.profile doesn't explode
<flocculant> cos I can't remember quite what state which vm is in anymore :p
<akxwi-dave> flocculant:  I have your telephone number, so only panic if you see its me ringing :-)
<knome> isn't it fair for anyone to panic if akxwi-dave rings?)
<akxwi-dave> oh yes...  :-)
<flocculant> ha h a
<flocculant> do we have to wait 7 days for x-d-s out of proposed?
<flocculant> no we don't
<flocculant> rebuilt iso, tested from scratch with a clean install \o/
<knome> ok, not going to be late
<flocculant> not going to be about for ages when it gets to it now :)
<knome> ;)
<knome> the reason i might have been late was a potentially very long board game - or one that started late
<knome> but we're done now ;)
<flocculant> :)
<nairwolf> I completly forgotten there is a meeting tonight
<nairwolf> badly, I'm completely unable to assist and participate
<nairwolf> I will just read your discussion
<nairwolf> I've seen some progress with the lock bug in the ml. Sorry for not being able to help you in this particular time...
<flocculant> nairwolf: no problem - that's sorted now - I rebuilt iso with new package to confirm that
<nairwolf> ok, the iso version 20160928 doesn't contain the new package? 
<flocculant> yes it does - that's the one I rebuilt
<nairwolf> ok ;)
<nairwolf> if I find time this night, I would be able to test it
<knome> !team | Meeting in 10 minutes!
<ubottu> Meeting in 10 minutes!: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<fliberty> awesome - bnc died at the wrong time :p
<knome> is there a right time?
<fliberty> 4am :D
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Sep 28 21:32:14 2016 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> so.. who's here for the meeting?
<fliberty> yup
<knome>  anybody else? :P
<knome> maybe we'll just wait for bluesabre 
<fliberty> yep
<fliberty> I'd guess he's not so omgomgomg now he knows that we're ok :)
<fliberty> I know I am ...
<knome> or maybe he is, remember he is likely in the middle of some traffic...
<knome>  :P
<bluesabre> o/
<fliberty> oh yea :)
<knome> o hai
<fliberty> oh there he is :p
<fliberty> hi bluesabre :)
<knome> #topic Open action items
<bluesabre> hi fliberty knome 
<knome> #ACTION knome to look at installer slideshow and make sure everyting is up-to-date 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to look at installer slideshow and make sure everyting is up-to-date
<knome> bluesabre, did you prepare file manager testing for Z?
<bluesabre> knome, only started researching and dumping notes
<knome> if not, maybe that would be better in a blueprint anyway?
<bluesabre> I'll like the pad though
<bluesabre> and yeah
<fliberty> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-z-filemanager
<knome> oki, good
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193: did you write a report of the state of Thunar?
<fliberty> I started making a few notes on that pad ^^
<Unit193> Yeah, sort of.
<knome> do you still need to do some work on it?
<bluesabre> Yes, I'd say so.
<knome> #ACTION bluesabre and Unit193 to write a report of the state of Thunar (eg. which patches we carry and what they should do) and make sure all of them are in a PPA 
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre and Unit193 to write a report of the state of Thunar (eg. which patches we carry and what they should do) and make sure all of them are in a PPA
<bluesabre> works for me
<knome> (that's just the old item, passing it forward)
<knome> #topic Updates and Announcements
<fliberty> #info We didn't release Final Beta due to bug 1622303
<ubottu> bug 1622303 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Fails to unlock/ resumes to black screen" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1622303
<fliberty> phew memory for number worked ... 
<knome> #info Final Freeze October 6 â thursday next week
<knome> got to get the stuff in...
<fliberty> #info little testing done for beta, I called a halt to it
<bluesabre> looking forward to the new wallpaper :)
<knome> that, and need to make sure the installer slideshow is "ok"
<fliberty> #info qa/dev lots of backwards and forwards on sorting out the lock bug
<bluesabre> that too
<knome> so what caused the bug?
<fliberty> knome: looks ok as long as no changes other than rat instead of cow on there 
<fliberty> I've looked at it rather a lot lately ...
<knome> fliberty, and no release numbers need changing?
<bluesabre> knome, changes to xubuntu-default-settings regarding systemd user sessions, we rolled back and resolved the issue
<fliberty> change to xubuntu-default-settings in late July/early August
<fliberty> that :p
<fliberty> knome: release numbers ?
<knome> what was that change supposed to fix/bring?
<knome> fliberty, eg. it doesn't boldly say "Welcome to Xubuntu 16.04!" ?
<fliberty> oh it might 
<fliberty> was more thinking of content of the top of my head
<bluesabre> knome, "the entire session runs in one unit, it's not split up" per pitti
<knome> ok... :P
<bluesabre> I'm not very knowledgeable about init systems, systemd, and users and all that :D
<Unit193> Well, systemd user sessions rather than upstart.
<bluesabre> apparently I need to get there
<bluesabre> Unit193 knows more about this stuff :D
<fliberty> knome: nope - it says 16.10
<knome> \o/
<fliberty> but rat :p
<knome> mmh...
<knome> any other updates?
<fliberty> but you knew that because it's not the last minute yet :D
<bluesabre> maybe use the ubuntu yak logo as a mask on top of our mouse :D
<fliberty> lol
<knome> fliberty, yep, that's the spirit, fix the animal on the last possible night
<fliberty> :)
<bluesabre> (I think it would work, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/yak.jpg)
<bluesabre> but yeah, nothing more from me
<fliberty> nor me
<knome> (how are yaks and tahrs even different?)
<fliberty> well
<fliberty> one starts with a y for a start 
<bluesabre> the former is clearer to pronounce
<knome> ;)
<knome> #topic Discussion
<knome> #subtopic Light-locker (bluesabre/flippylant)
<knome> anything specific more?
<fliberty> \o/
<fliberty> not that I'm aware of
<bluesabre> Not much to say here, light-locker is here to stay for now, but other lockers *can* work for us in the future if we need them
<knome> mhm
<bluesabre> Thanks to everyone who hopped aboard the locker testing on short notice
<knome> indeed, thanks people
<fliberty> I'd add if we get problems with it again we should be a bit more pro-active at thinking about changing and/or involving elsewhere
<fliberty> this would have been really close to the wire :D
<bluesabre> indeed
<knome> or make sure our systemd expert Unit193 is at hand
<fliberty> :)
 * bluesabre gives the badge of init-honor to Unit193 
 * fliberty gives the badge of running around shouting to akxwi-dave 
<bluesabre> :D
 * fliberty keeps the poke akxwi-dave with the stick to run around shouting :p
<knome> #subtopic Other discussion (and badge handings)
<knome> anything else?
<fliberty> oh bah
<knome> (:
<fliberty> could have announcemented Release Candidate 
<fliberty> quick sub-topic so I can do the obligatory on that please :p
<bluesabre> Looking forward to next cycle, light-locker might come up again... if there were no actual issues with the systemd migration, it could be an incompatibility with light-locker or xfce and we might have to reevaluate
<knome> #topic Yet another announcement section
<fliberty> #info Release Candidate next week
<fliberty> #action Xubuntu-team to test and report on tracker
<meetingology> ACTION: Xubuntu-team to test and report on tracker
 * bluesabre hopes we participate in that one
<fliberty> hah
<knome> yeah
<bluesabre> :D
<fliberty> it was close :p
<bluesabre> #nick Xubuntu-team
<bluesabre> if that wasn't already done and is still required
<knome> actually, the final freeze is likely not thursday :P
<knome> anyway
<fliberty> #action bluesabre to please double check mugshot and webcams after enabling it
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to please double check mugshot and webcams after enabling it
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to update development blueprints for end of cycle
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to update development blueprints for end of cycle
<fliberty> if for no other reason than to keep the bug chugging along on notes etc
<knome> anybody else wants to pop up and throw work items at bluesabre?
<fliberty> oooh I'm back \o/
<knome> flocculant, you should either say something or we should #nick you
<bluesabre> knome, have we started the -z- blueprints already?
<flocculant> I'm back - bye fliberty 
<bluesabre> bye fliberty, you were a welcome presence
<bluesabre> awww
<bluesabre> :(
<flocculant> I saaw it :D
<knome> bluesabre, nope, but there's nothing stopping us from creating stuff when we have content for them
<bluesabre> knome, I'll probably get started with that soon
<knome> great! if you need help... 
<bluesabre> maybe add a bit to the release announcement that we like contributors :D
<knome> so let's close this meeting
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> #action ochosi to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to schedule next meeting
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Sep 28 21:58:43 2016 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-09-28-21.32.moin.txt
<bluesabre> yay
<bluesabre> thanks knome!
<flocculant> lets not have ochosi doing that - might want one before he returns :p
<flocculant> thanks knome 
<knome> flocculant, he should be back tomorrow
<knome> and minutes are up
<knome> the wiki was blazing fast tonight
<flocculant> knome: re website announcement for release - I'd perhaps like it more people orientated given wiki will be tech
<knome> (no irony added)
<knome> flocculant, yes, all improvement suggestions are welcome
<flocculant> knome: re wiki - did you look at # on x.wiki yet? 
<Unit193> Blazing == loaded within 3 minutes?
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> (though we still probably want to list bugs etc)
<knome> Unit193, no, loaded instantly
<knome> Unit193, editing too
<knome> Unit193, and saving
<knome> Unit193, and creating a new page
<flocculant> knome: bluesabre's contributors loved type thing 
<knome> flocculant, yep, that's good
<flocculant> I'll probably do this cycles release note on u.w - don't have to think so much about formatting, unless I get around to editing the one I dropped on x.wiki
<flocculant> of course
<Unit193> bluesabre: You got the pad or do I need to search for it?
<flocculant> Unit193: which ?
<Unit193> Thunar.
<flocculant> https://piratenpad.de/p/thunar-patches
<flocculant> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-z-filemanager
<flocculant> thjose ones? 
<Unit193> Yep, first.
<flocculant> k 
<flocculant> well - thanks for running meeting and for people turning up even though it wasn't strictly required as it turns out
<flocculant> night all :)
<knome> nighty flocculant 
<Unit193> Slightly updated it.  Something else you wanted in it, knome/
<bluesabre> night flocculant 
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193 
<knome> i'll look a bit later
<Unit193> Sure.  I have no idea what's going on. :D
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> :D
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<Unit193> Oooh, I figured out what I was doing.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-29
<flocculant> Unit193: they good for a smoketest? 
<Unit193> They're a bit larger...  I haven't gotten to them yet, but close. :3
<flocculant> I don't mind how big the smoke is :p
<flocculant> I do studio sometimes ... 
<Unit193> Other than the fact I've not gotten to 'em yet, believe so. :3
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I forgot zsync fails 
<Unit193> Oh?  Should work.
<flocculant> nope
<flocculant> could not read control file from URL https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/pending/xubuntu-16.10-core-amd64.iso.zsync
<Unit193> Well, once you switch from https to http, at least.
<Unit193> zsync doesn't know what https is.
<flocculant> yea I remembered
<flocculant> forgot http though :D
<flocculant> 32 bit away - I'll see if it cooks when I get home
<flocculant> though black background if started from the debian menu
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/VEDDMxF.png
<flocculant> sowwy
<pavlushka> please check this issue LP bug 1629038
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1629038 in samba (Ubuntu) "package samba 2:4.3.11+dfsg-0ubuntu0.16.04.1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629038
<flocculant> pavlushka: it's a dupe - also > #xubuntu for xenial
<pavlushka> flocculant: oky
<flocculant> bunch of similar bugs reported recenetly
<pavlushka> flocculant: but I faced it today after updating to latest.
<flocculant> and?
<flocculant> as I said - bunch of recent bugs reported recently
<pavlushka> hmm
<pavlushka> and? it fails in "samba --configure" ^
<flocculant> #xubuntu 
<pavlushka> ok
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-30
<Unit193> +    - Fix guest AppArmor profile to allow guest sessions more access to the
<Unit193> +      upstart session socket (LP: #1627304)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1627304 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "User locking problems - guest login crashing" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627304
<flocculant> was expecting that
<Unit193> flocculant: Been accepted.
<flocculant> grabbed from proposed - because I'm never sure till I see it work with my own eyeses
<Unit193> Trying the systemd session with it too or no?
<flocculant> just default whatever I have 
<flocculant> and there was a systemd update
<flocculant> oic - the failing lock thing?
<flocculant> if so - I know that failed with the profile change 
<Unit193> Ah, nice.
<flocculant> so we have (or will have) the old working x-d-s, the new lightdm - which all works together
<bluesabre> good to hear
<flocculant> after the last fortnight, anything lightdm is probably good to hear :p
<flocculant> I do still see the DENIED messgaes in logs, but I guess because we're not using the 'new' x-d-s we can laugh for the time being
<flocculant> I will keep watch on any updates I see between now and release and retest if I see anything that might affect it
<ochosi> evening everyone
<ochosi> <- is back in town
<ochosi> i read some emails about light-locker issues which turned out to be issues with pitti's changes
<ochosi> and something about guest mode being fixed in lightdm
<ochosi> anything important other than that which i missed?
<flocculant> we moved to qt 
<flocculant> welcome back ochosi :)
<flocculant> other than l-l and associated nothing I know of 
<ochosi> flocculant: so everything is on track (again)?
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - we reverted xubuntu-default-settings - which got lock and guest working properly
<flocculant> there's been a change to lightdm to get guest working elsewhere
<flocculant> I would guess that we'll need to revisit the x-d-s next cycle - and it'll fall over - but not at this stage of the cycle :)
<flocculant> currently we have no need to change out light-locker for something else - but we at least know where we stand of options for next cycle
<flocculant> I think that sums it all up
<ochosi> right
<flocculant> as far as anything else on the iso goes - I think the only horrid thing is the dodgy resize dialogue
<ochosi> well if there are no issues with l-l i don't think there
<ochosi> 's any need to exchange it
<flocculant> well - as soon as we revert x-d-s then it'll fail 
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> did you get anywhere in terms of what changes would be needed?
<flocculant> locker changes?
<ochosi> yup
<flocculant> gnome-screensaver is the best of the 2 in my opinion (bluesabre's too:) visually at least
<flocculant> doesn't add much size wise either afaik
<flocculant> hang on 
<ochosi> and dependency-wise?
<ochosi> cause i remember it dragged in gnome-* heavily around 3.16
<ochosi> haven't revisited it since then
<flocculant> gnome-screensaver just dragged in itself
<flocculant> let me find a thing
<ochosi> k, that sounds fair
<flocculant> http://imgur.com/lQIC7KD
<flocculant> that's a default vm - removing light-locker on left, adding g-s top right, removing g-s and adding x-s bottom right
<flocculant> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-y-locker
<ochosi> sry, gotta run, bbiab
<flocculant> ok - well those links etc are data we had
<ochosi> flocculant: hm, interesting, seems they cleared it off its gnome depends...
<ochosi> i thought that it was more tightly integrated into gdm and the gnomeshell itself
<ochosi> looking at the git log it was only recently resurrected: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-screensaver/log/
<ochosi> 3.6.0 is from 2012...
<flocculant> right 
<flocculant> long and short of it is it's easier for us if necessary then :)
<flocculant> I'm just glad we didn't need to swap this close to the finish line :p
<flocculant> not at all sure what I was thinking of when I tried reverting x-d-s - at that time of the morning I'm not really thinking of anything but tea ...
<ochosi> looks a bit crappy, the gnome-screensaver unlock dialog
<ochosi> maybe i can do some theming magic on it though if we really decide to go down that road
<flocculant> yea - though it does look better than the other one we were looking at :)
<Unit193> Did someone leave the awful white border on it still?
<flocculant> Unit193: not that I recall
<Unit193> Goooood.
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/tcptBBQ.png
<flocculant> no white border
<flocculant> .
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-01
<Unit193> knome: Hrm, I thought you blacklisted .stream?  Doesn't appear to auto-drop.  .date might be another good candidate, fwiw.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-10-02
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - i386 - i386 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<knome> bluesabre, fancy working on an upload with paperwork?)
<knome> bluesabre, i just pushed some yak artwork to our installer slideshow
<flocculant> nice :)
<knome> next up is finishing the wallpaper
<knome> bug 1629648 for the installer slideshow change
<ubottu> bug 1629648 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Yak art for the Xubuntu slideshow" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629648
<knome> if somebody wants to ping -release with it
<knome> (they are subbed)
<knome> bug 1629650 for the wallpaper UIFe
<ubottu> bug 1629650 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] New wallpaper for 16.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629650
<knome> that said...
<knome> bluesabre, please review http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/yakkety/revision/316
<knome> bluesabre, eg. if i missed something or broke all the stuffz
<knome> actually already i notice that it needs to be yakkety, not yak
<knome> and that's fixed in a new push
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [yakkety] r316 Add YY wallpaper.... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [yakkety] r317 Rename for consistency.... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<flocculant> Unit193: fyi - failed to install from that first menu, didn't see try/install, installed ok from live desktop
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> ochosi, curious about http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/yakkety/revision/315, did you mean to include that for y?
<bluesabre> hi knome 
<bluesabre> thanks for the new wp
<knome> np
<bluesabre> I'll try to get that uploaded tomorrow... got a bunch of icons between the last release and the new wp
<knome> heh
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-25
<bluesabre> flocculant: I wonder if the installer requires libinput
<bluesabre> A good way to test would be loading directly into the desktop instead of ubiquity, "Try Xubuntu" instead of auto or "Install Xubuntu"
<bluesabre> Will try to look into this tonight
<bluesabre> flocculant: I see what you mean now, there is no response whatsoever
<bluesabre> The clock advances though, so it's not frozen, just accepting no input
<bluesabre> I think adding xserver-xorg-input-all will fix it
<bluesabre> Might as well give it a shot :D
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave, flocculant: Pushed a new xubuntu-meta (xubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-core packages), respin tomorrow if 2.217 is in the archive but not in the iso, and I think it should work again. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/2.217
<bluesabre> night all
<Unit193> bluesabre: Didn't just boot to console, install, and start lightdm?
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack - sitting in -proposed currently
<flocculant> well that took some finding ... how to start live to console
<flocculant> instead of adding 'text' use 'systemd.unit=multi-user.target' instead, so easy to remember 
<flocculant> anyway - adding -input-all gets things working seemingly, though that ^^ ended me at xfce session :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - rebuilt iso, got input now \o/
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: re vm's in virt-manager, boot without splash or you can change the video type from qxl to cirrus and it will work
<Unit193> Exactly..
<flocculant> exactly which :p
<Unit193> 'text' being ever so much more useful...
<flocculant> oh right - yea, that only wasted 20 minutes of my life ...
<flocculant> bit confused with bug 1047384 atm, doesn't say it's fixed, but appears to be working here ok, not sure why not having splash would affect it lol
<ubottu> bug 1047384 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "System Encryption Password set before setting keyboard locale" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1047384
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: cheers on that..
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: np - bit slower but it works :p
<flocculant> can't see the encrypt bug on hardware either 
<flocculant> kbd was definitely US - used it in terminal and # was /, set the password and it worked when I rebooted
<flocculant> would be useful to have that confirmed by someone not in the US 
<ochosi> evening all
<ochosi> flocculant: do we still have that double network manager problem?
<ochosi> or what happened when you restarted nm-applet? in theory also restarting the networking service should work (systemctl restart networking)
<flocculant> ochosi: I had 2 here a couple of hours ago - didn't remember what you said about restarting nm-applet - restarting panel lost it
<flocculant> just booting vm 
<flocculant> 1
<flocculant> but I'm quite positive that people will see 2 at times
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-26
<ochosi> flocculant, Unit193: the decision what to include in terms of gtk3 components in 18.04 can be taken on a component level
<ochosi> no need to take or leave everything
<ochosi> things are compatible with each other mostly
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks for the info there :)
<flocculant> ochosi: currently have 2 network icons, no idea how to restart applet and systemctl is something other than networking - don't want to guess - just want to do whatever you want to get an answer :D
<flocculant> network-manager.service  network-online.target < I'd assume service there 
<flocculant> one is notification area the other in indicators btw
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, that's what i expected (one here, one there)
<ochosi> ok then try "killall nm-applet" and then just start it again with "nm-applet"
<ochosi> for me the networking service is there, so systemctl restart networking works
<ochosi> you can also try sudo systemctl restart network-manager
<flocculant> ok - done that - 1 left now
<flocculant> ochosi: re systemctl, I guess changes in artful then perhaps
<ochosi> right, so it's a problem with the startup sequence in the session i guess
<flocculant> in indicators
<ochosi> if restarting it fixes it
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> ochosi: not sure if I mentioned this is one of those 'sometime' things
<ochosi> to me it sounds like: nm-applet is started before the panel or the indicator service is up, so it starts with tray icon. as soon as indicator-application is initiatlized it also shows up there
<ochosi> yeah, just a race condition in the session startup
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> we would need a clean sequence instead of starting everything at once :)
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> not sure that's possible with xfce4-session currently
<flocculant> want release notes to mention it?
<ochosi> dunno, it's fairly random and has no functional impact
<ochosi> i mean yeah, now you have two ways to switch to a different wifi...
<ochosi> in theory this should affect the installed session too
<ochosi> but i guess you see it more often in the live install because the session start is slower, so it more often exposes this race condition
<flocculant> ochosi: yup - I was talking about installed here
<ochosi> bluesabre: what're your thoughts on this ^ ?
<flocculant> and for the record - 13 minutes later I now actually have 0 network in panel
<ochosi> ehm... without restarting the network-manager service in the meantime?
<ochosi> or maybe nm-applet was attached to the term you started it from and then you closed the terminal..?
<flocculant> restarted nm-applet is all
<flocculant> possibly :D
<flocculant> anyway - back a bit later 
<ochosi> okeydokey
<flocculant> cyphermox: any idea's why I'd suddenly not see bug 1047384 ?
<ubottu> bug 1047384 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "System Encryption Password set before setting keyboard locale" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1047384
<flocculant> oh ... forgot he was in here - thought I was in -release lol
<flocculant> bbl still :)
<cyphermox> no idea, I didn't change this
<cyphermox> one option might be that keybord-configuration and others were old, broken, so you'd just never get that panel until it got fixed?
<flocculant> cyphermox: ok - thanks, not sure what you mean about panel though
<cyphermox> well, that dialog in the installer
<flocculant> mmm - still not so sure - everything today appears to be the same as it was last time I checked encrypt installs *shrug*
<bluesabre> ochosi, flocculant, yeah, there's not a great solution to that. I see similar issues where qt apps load before xfce does, so the fonts and rendering are crap until restarting the app
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, I'm leaving lightdm-gtk-greeter for you. :>
<Unit193> #829931 is at least fixed with it.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-27
<flocculant> bluesabre: tested all 64bit installs, checked 32 boots, will try and get another hardware one done today - won't be doing anymore though
<flocculant> there are some kbd related issues apparently elsewhere - noting them on the wiki
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-28
<Unit193> I don't suppose slick has been seen recently?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<bluesabre> Nice
<Unit193> Entirely untested in every way, hence why I need slicky.
<Unit193> If we actually want to go with this, shouldn't be just me testing.  UEFI secure boot testing is more complicated than it used to be.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I mentioned I heard it from somewhere that Ubuntu is interested in going with Ayatana indicators in 18.04?
<bluesabre> Unit193: Yeah, I saw the mention in #debian-xfce
<bluesabre> Very interesting
<Unit193> Oh no you read me there. :(
<bluesabre> I guess -indicator-plug will need patched
<bluesabre> and sn-plug should be unaffected
<bluesabre> right?
<Unit193> 1. Merge from Debian.  2. Right.
<bluesabre> Excellent.
<Unit193> https://wiki.debian.org/Ayatana/IndicatorsTransition
<bluesabre> flocculant, akxwi-dave: Marked our builds ready, got a few tests in on i386 this morning and feel good about where we are
<bluesabre> Unit193: very nice
<Unit193> (I don't think that really matters to us, but was related to the discussion.  Random crap rattles in my brain, not sure what's useful. :D )
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks old chap :)
<flocculant> Unit193: all I'd be able to do is vm 32 bit
<flocculant> on the other hand the chances of getting core properly out this cycle - is yet again anfcaa
<Unit193> flocculant: So far that's all that exists, I'll test it tomorrow and if I can smoke test it, then I'll see if anyone else wants to.
<flocculant> I'd give it a blast of course
<Unit193> Thanks, I'll smoke it first just to make sure nothing glaringly obvious.
<Unit193> bluesabre: We still have notification-daemon...
<flocculant> I'm completely confused with notification vs indicator(s) we're going for later :p
<Unit193> flocculant: The little bubbles that tell you battery is charged == notification
<flocculant> and confuse not-daemon with not-area :D
<Unit193> xfce4-notifyd is ours, notification-daemon is the evil GNOME one.
<flocculant> yea - I was just confused between either and the area in the panel :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/09/msg00006.html
<bluesabre> Unit193: these updates have been speedy lately :D
<Unit193> Catch them all!
<bluesabre> Unit193: did xfwm 4.13 drop vsync?
<Unit193> bluesabre: I think it dropped that option as it has other fancy stuff to prevent it.
<bluesabre> Gotcha
 * bluesabre longs for a day without screen tearing
<Unit193> xfwm4 --version
<ninetls> bluesabre: no tearing since 4.13 :p
 * bluesabre is very not convinced
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> 4.13.0git.7d9e6ced (revision 7d9e6ced)
<ninetls> I ran a video from youtube
<ninetls> 'tearing test'
<ninetls> with my friend
<bluesabre> I moved a window left
<ninetls> we tested that tearing has gone!
<Unit193> I have weird graphical issues upon login.  xfwm4 4.13 is a very hit and miss release.
<Unit193> Oh, Xubuntu Core booted, so I guess that's good enough.
<bluesabre> maybe I should try with something other than nouveau
<bluesabre> Unit193: woohoo!
<ninetls> bluesabre: try using integrated video with modesetting driver
<bluesabre> yeah, trying some other drivers now
<Unit193> Downloadable.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-29
<bluesabre> nvidia driver is worse
<bluesabre> time to try with intel
<bluesabre> And nope
<bluesabre> :\
<ninetls> bluesabre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceX18O9pvLs
<bluesabre> ninetls: yeah, some serious tearing
<ninetls> meh
<ninetls> why the hell this thing works for nobody except me and my friend? :D
<bluesabre> I ask that about my code all the time
<ninetls> bluesabre: can you check xfwm log? what does it say about xpresent?
<bluesabre> ninetls: where's that log stored?
<Unit193> ~/.xsession-errors
<bluesabre> (xfwm4:2270): xfwm4-WARNING **: Dismissing XPresent as unusable, error 3 for request 148
<bluesabre> Seems I'm not alone at least https://www.bountysource.com/issues/47151407-screen-tearing-xfwm-4-13
<ninetls> yes
<ninetls> this error!!
<ninetls> bluesabre: do you have DRI 3 enabled?
<ninetls> I have this xorg conf file: http://ix.io/yRk
<bluesabre> Guessing not then
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: You can find them, at least for now, at http://aegir.unit193.net/xubuntu-core/pending/
<slickymasterWork> great, thanks
<Unit193> Thank you!
<knome> slickymasterWork, hello
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.3.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0-3-1-released-tp49842.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> (enjoy)
 * flocculant grabs that instead of the git one :p
<flocculant> or doesn't and waits for the ppa to reflect it :D
<Unit193> >_>
<Unit193> I am not on that now, flocculant.>_>
 * flocculant waits for bb then
<Unit193> ...What PPA is it in?
<Unit193> flocculant: It'll be built soonâ¢
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks :D
<flocculant> it did - so I installed it 
<tacocat> bluesabre: i've prepped lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings 1.2.2-1 in https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings.git
<tacocat> just waiting on my sponsor now, but not sure when he'll respond. if you wan tto take that and push it to ubuntu early, fine by me too :)
<Unit193> We're far too frozen, thanks though.
<tacocat> winter in september? :O
<Unit193> No snow but it was in the 40s last night, I believe.
<Unit193> uscan warn: Possible OpenPGP signature found at: https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/1.2/1.2.2/+download/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings-1.2.2.tar.gz.asc. Please consider adding opts=pgpsigurlmangle=s/$/.asc/
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-30
<bluesabre> tacocat: thanks! We'll pull that in when we open the B cycle
<bluesabre> Trying to get things lined up so the cycle is easier :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin/news/20170930T135037Z.html
<bluesabre> Unit193: hooray!
#xubuntu-devel 2017-10-01
<Zeioth> I love the wallpaper of 17.10 beta2
<Zeioth> reminds me to 'Wipeout' for some reason
<Zeioth> (psx)
<knome> Zeioth, happy to hear
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-24
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Release 18.10.2 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=f2ea716759c0e4422d7a7ccb1e99ace26372bd05 (by Sean Davis)
<bluesabre> brainwash, ondondil, ali1234, let me know if there are some concrete changes or if more adjustments need to be made... I went ahead and uploaded what we have in the hopes I can land it in the beta
<bluesabre> not sure what freeze state the archive might actually be in, but we'll see
<bluesabre> bbl
<bluesabre> btw, this is a crazy busy week for me, so I probably won't be around much... but I'll still work on getting release notes together before Thursday
<brainwash> bluesabre: all info should be in the remaining two x-d-s reports
<brainwash> it's low priority, so it can be delayed
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you think that bug 1550444 is a duplicate of bug 1374887?
<ubottu> bug 1550444 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole media player segfaults when seeking forward in a video file" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1550444
<ubottu> bug 1374887 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in parole_provider_player_get_stream_position()" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1374887
<brainwash> I asked this yesterday
<bluesabre> brainwash: I think they're not duplicates
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-25
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you see cosmic beta on the tracker can you mail the link out - I did the first call, if not I'll do it when I get home
<Unit193> xfce4-weather-plugin GTK3 PPA'd, not going to Cosmic.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, wondered how that text got in there, didn't think I submitted a patch to upstream Xfce about https. :D
<brainwash> bluesabre: this is just cosmetics, but wouldn't it look better if "Print file/s" was changed to just "Print"?
<brainwash> bluesabre: this way it would be in line with other context menu entries like "Delete" etc.
<brainwash> it's not "Delete file/s"
<brainwash> on Windows it's just "Print"
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes, that makes sense
<brainwash> I tried to print a document without having a printer installed, but the command used by thunar-print did not return any error
<brainwash> libreoffice -p <file>
<brainwash> bluesabre: did you test if printing actually works?
<bluesabre> brainwash: I did not test the printing, instead took ochosi's word for it
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> maybe the libroffice command can be fine-tuned
<bluesabre> Just tried it, got a file coming out the printer now
<brainwash> nice
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think we should try to pull this into 18.10 (took me a bit to fix the remaining icons) https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/releases/tag/v0.13.1
<Spass> ochosi, did you see pull request #666 \m/ on elementary icons upstream? seems like they've changed all the manila folders a bit
<ochosi> Spass: yeah, i did, but the change is not drastic
<ochosi> haven't merged it in yet
<Spass> I'll try to create my first ever pull request in the near future, going back to my old suggestion - https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/issues/102
<Unit193> knome: Poke.
<Spass> maybe I'll be useful, I'll try ;)
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> any help is welcome
<Unit193> Spass: I can't artwork at all, and even I find a way to help. ;)
<Unit193> ...By nagging ochosi. :(
<ochosi> lol
<Spass> that's kinda what I was doing too
<ochosi> (and by doing distro-agnostic packaging to get the stuff to debian)
<Unit193> (I package elementary-xfce in Debian.)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> knome: any news on the wallpaper front? Seems ubuntu landed theirs today
<ochosi> i saw a very nice preview of it in here a few days ago, nice work on that knome (if i haven't said so)
<bluesabre> Yea, that preview was looking really good
<Unit193> I may have missed this.
<Unit193> https://temp.knome.fi/temp/xubuntu/.wall-1810/draft_03.png
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'll have elementary-xfce in Debian later tonight, not sure if you want to sync, update for Ubuntu, do paperwork, or what.
<bluesabre> Unit193: awesome, thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-26
<knome> Unit193, what?
<knome> bluesabre, potentially getting it finished today, depends on the real work (tm)
<brainwash> printer applet will eat your memory https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=863227
<ubottu> Debian bug 863227 in system-config-printer "system-config-printer: applet.py does not exit with session" [Normal,Open]
<Spass> first part of my beta ISO testing is done - live session, I've reported my issues (there are many, unfortunately)
<Spass> now I'm going to install it on my secondary drive
<flocculant> amyone planning beta testing - should wait for the respin
<brainwash> Spass: "xflock4 command didn't work at all" light-locker is not started in the live session anymore, therefore xflock4 won't do anything
<Spass> brainwash, ahh ok, in that case sorry, I didn't know that
<brainwash> is locking the screen part of a test case?
<Spass> no, but I thought it was important
<Spass> so is that related to my "not resuming from suspend" issue also?
<brainwash> unlikely I'd think
<brainwash> you could test with the regular Ubuntu beta
<brainwash> did suspend break only in the beta for you?
<Spass> I can test that later with a regular Ubuntu LTS
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-2-released-tp51869.html (by Alexander Schwinn)
<flocculant> brainwash: locking screen is in fact part of a testcase - post install 
<brainwash> flocculant: in that case it will work
<brainwash> just not during live session
<flocculant> yea I know 
<Spass> so maybe, if it's possible, it would be a good idea to disable "Lock screen" button from the Whisker Menu in Live Session?
<flocculant> why?
<Spass> because it doesn't work at all during live session, as brainwash wrote "light-locker is not started in the live session anymore, therefore xflock4 won't do anything"
<flocculant> at times - hardware doesn't work in the live session - do we disable the live session :p
<Spass> I just don't see a point to that button being visible, if locking is disabled
<flocculant> Spass: I really don't think it's that important
<Spass> it may confuse users
<flocculant> once
<Spass> I'm not saying that it's critical or something
<flocculant> ack
<Spass> and not "once", because it doesn't show any message with information that "it is disabled in the live session, move on"
<flocculant> I suspect it's muich too late for 18.10 anyway
<flocculant> bluesabre: on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/396/builds/181438/testcases/1303/results
<flocculant> result from malysps, #1 - pretty sure I've seen a bug report for this - but can't find it
<brainwash> Spass: well, maybe think of it like this: it "locks" the screen, but instantly unlocks it due not being password protected in the first place
<brainwash> it it wasn't, what password would you type to unlock?
<Spass> brainwash, I still don't see a point to "Lock screen" button being visible in the main menu, when locking is disabled, but I agree, not a big problem
<Spass> flocculant, I've mentioned those disappearing buttons here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14606 maybe that was it?
<brainwash> that's just the default menu config
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14606 in Settings "xfwm4-settings keeps crashing when changing 'Button layout'" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> you are free to run light-locker manually, and then use the button
<Spass> brainwash, I know, and if it's not possible to change it during the live session only, that's not an issue at all
<flocculant> Spass: thought I'd seen something 
<flocculant> oh - now I see you're malysps lol
<Spass> yup :)
<Spass> you got confused, once
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<Spass> new beta ISOs will be released soon? or no specific date yet?
<flocculant> Spass: not sure when
<flocculant> it'll definitely be before tomorrow pm as they need testing by tomorrow pm ;)
<flocculant> they have to wait for the package fix to land before they can respin
<Spass> ok, I'll try to test them also
<flocculant> I'll check the manifest diff to see what changes have landed - likely none that particularly affect us
<flocculant> apart from the obvious one
<flocculant> live virtualbox fails
<flocculant> so - if that's the main change all we really need to do is smokestest 
<Spass> brainwash, Ubuntu 18.04 live session, my laptop resumed from the suspend correctly after lid close / open
<Spass> will test that on new Xubuntu 18.10 beta again
<brainwash> 04?
<Spass> yes, I just wanted to check if my laptop suspend is working with LTS at all
<brainwash> ah I see
<Spass> to check for possible regression 
<brainwash> I assumed that this was given
<brainwash> and suspend only broke in 18.10, maybe just recently in the beta
<brainwash> ochosi: you may be able to explain this one: xfce4-terminal --icon=123 is not able to find 123.png in ~/.local/share/icons/, but it can if moved to ~/.local/share/icons/<theme>/<category>/<size>/
<brainwash> could be the intended behaviour
<ochosi> yeah, sounds as expected
<brainwash> alright. thanks
<ochosi> maybe it works if you put it to ~/.local/share/icons/hicolor
<brainwash> will try that
<brainwash> doesn't work
<ochosi> maybe you need to add the <category>/<size> path too
<ochosi> cause it all depends if the index.theme file of the respective icon theme defines the path you're using
<ochosi> (as far as i know)
<brainwash> personally, I only remember putting icons in ~/.icons, and it just worked some years ago
<ochosi> hmm, possible
<ochosi> i've maintained elementary-xfce for so long, i don't clearly remember the times before ;)
<Unit193> Oh dang, forgot to tell bluesabre that elementary-xfce is up to date in Debian.
<Unit193> elementary-xfce 0.13.1-1 uploaded by Unit 193 <unit193@ubuntu.com>
<ochosi> \o/
<ochosi> thanks Unit193 
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks! Hopefully I get a chance to tackle that soon
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-27
<flocculant> no respins yet ... how useful
<bluesabre> I'm going to be late with the release notes, been working on a large project rollout this week... and still going >.<
<brainwash> is xubuntu supposed to show panel indicators on the "welcome - try/install xubuntu" screen?
<brainwash> currently it's just a black bar at the top
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you know that?
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: you reported still seeing the xorg bug? that should be fixed after the respin
<flocculant> brainwash: yes it is supposed to show them - hardware? vm?
<flocculant> brainwash: confirm that in kvm
<flocculant> bluesabre: cleaned out bionic refs from https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.10/release-notes
<flocculant> not close enough to what's going on to do more I'm afraid
<flocculant> marked us as done now
<brainwash> flocculant: they are missing in 18.04 too, so it's not something new
<flocculant> they weren't
<brainwash> I think it's because xubuntu does not use indicator-application and -sound anymore
<brainwash> nm-applet would appear as application indicator, but not anymore
<brainwash> so, then panel is just empty now
<brainwash> maybe revert https://git.launchpad.net/ubiquity/commit/?id=f8356ea277efc8dded2bc7057e6e161383f73884
<brainwash> Unit193: what do you think? ^
<flocculant> brainwash: could well be why - it certainly used to appear in 18.04 - not sure about 18.04.1
<brainwash> flocculant: there is "gtk-theme-config (changelog)" in the release-notes
<brainwash> but that tool is no more
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks for catfishy!
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-28
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks for the help, tidied up and added details to the release notes
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Uhh...We never picked up xfwm4 4.12.5? >_<
<Unit193> http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfwm4-4-12-5-released-td51453.html ?
<bluesabre> Unit193: huh, how'd we miss that?
<Unit193> Too busy looking at GTK3...
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> why not 4.13?
<Unit193> It's not reliable.
<brainwash> not even .1?
<brainwash> https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/x/xfwm4/xfwm4_4.13.1-1_changelog
<Unit193> It was better.
<Unit193> It's in the experimental PPA so people can test it though.
<brainwash> I guess they can
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can we slip that bugfix release in?
<bluesabre> Unit193: go for it
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: aye it happened on the 64bit iso but the 32bit was fine..   I'll recheck on a different machine and fresh install of vbox tonight, just incase its something lingering
<brainwash> Unit193: did you answer re ubiquity panel in xubuntu?
<brainwash> there are no indicators to show, so the panel could be hidden again
<brainwash> https://git.launchpad.net/ubiquity/commit/?id=f8356ea277efc8dded2bc7057e6e161383f73884
<Unit193> brainwash: Based on the ping, I did not.  I'm not entirely sure what was broken which caused me to say that, but since it's not displaying anything anymore..
<Unit193> Wonder what would happen if we had indicator-application on the ISO...
<Unit193> In theory it shouldn't start in the live session, and we already have xubuntu-live-settings that's only on the ISO...Hmm...
<brainwash> could work, but how to test this?
<Unit193> Crack open an ISO, stick it in, tape it shut?
<brainwash> with indicator-application it would allow nm-applet to show up
<Unit193> Exactly.
<brainwash> -sound is not really needed
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<brainwash> and -session was never used in xubuntu, but could be handy during the Welcome screen
<brainwash> to shutdown the system etc
<Unit193> Isn't there a screen to connect to wireless anyway though?
<brainwash> probably
<brainwash> in that case the empty panel could be just hidden
<brainwash> or left like it is now
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193: do we need UIFe's for other packages than artwork for the wallpaper?
<knome> bluesabre, Unit193: bug 1794978
<ubottu> bug 1794978 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] New wallpaper for Xubuntu 18.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1794978
<knome> anything to add or should i sub -release?
<brainwash> bluesabre: changelogs for ristretto, tumbler and libxfce4util are missing in the release notes
<flocculant> brainwash: re bug 1572792 - pretty sure someone xfce'ish told me kind of expected - even if it is bizarre, noted what I see here in 18.04 to the report
<ubottu> bug 1572792 in Ubuntu "Drag and drop copies files instead of moving them" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1572792
<brainwash> flocculant: I think this is related to how the live session mounts/handles the home partition
<brainwash> it should work the opposite like you describe in your comment
<brainwash> ultimately, not something thunar specific
<brainwash> the bug reporter used the live session cuz he mentions /home/xubuntu
<flocculant> right - well it's not live session specific - I saw the bug show in tbird - checked it to remind myself
<flocculant> pretty sure I checked way back when I first saw it on a live session with one of my drives mounted
<flocculant> also - think there is an xfce report for it but can't check as bugzilla is down
<brainwash> oh yeah. still down.
<ochosi> yeah, may stay like this over the weekend
<ochosi> because the university we're hosted at has some network troubles
<ochosi> or at least our servers do
<bluesabre> knome, thanks. I'll work on getting it approved this weekend
<bluesabre> Or just upload with that bug report in tow.
<bluesabre> knome: where are the files
<bluesabre> :)
<guiverc_d> would old x86 [32bit] (18.10) daily images be available for download - (need one with 4.17 kernel for comparison; xubuntu)  -- I could use bionic
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-29
<knome> bluesabre, not ready yet :P
<knome> bluesabre, i can prepare the artwork branch once i'm ready with it as well
<bluesabre> brainwash: thanks, added the changelogs
<bluesabre> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/+bug/1795135
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1795135 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Window buttons are not clickable at the top of the screen" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> ochosi: an interesting one, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1795138
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1795138 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Power Manager Plugin Detection Issues" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm not sure i understand the bugreport about greybird/panel. can you describe simple steps to reproduce?
<ochosi> the xfpm bug sounds like a upower issue
<ochosi> please check the output of the upower cli to be sure
<bluesabre> ochosi: move the mouse cursor to the top of the screen (0px) (where the panel is), and you cannot click on any of the window buttons
<ochosi> (xfpm simply presumes it's not a laptop if it doesnt have a battery
<ochosi> )
<ochosi> right, i presume because of padding/widget border of 1px
<ochosi> could probably be tackled by removing any border for those buttons in the theme
<ochosi> have you tried that with gtkinspector?
<bluesabre> trying now
<bluesabre> always a pain to get the css override to work
<bluesabre> no luck
<bluesabre> Guessing that's probably the case though since adwaita is unaffected
<ochosi> yeah possible
<ochosi> i can try to quickly test that myself
 * ochosi starts up laptop...
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> bluesabre: you know about the bug with whiskermenu flickering when you hover it with the mouse?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes
<bluesabre> this seems related, but moreso
<ochosi> that's when it's at the top border and stuff and it seems that gtk cannot decide whether/how to process the mouse position/signals
<ochosi> if i drop the "margin: 1px" from greybird, i don't only get the same effect for the window buttons, they also look a bit crappier
<ochosi> because there is no margin between the buttons
<ochosi> and if you want to support vertical and horizontal buttons you cannot conditionally decide which margin to add
<ochosi> (unless i add .horizontal and .vertical classes in the panel, which may be a good idea anyway)
<bluesabre> Was just about to suggest that
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> but still, you'll get the same flickering as with whisker
<ochosi> not sure that makes the situation a lot better
<bluesabre> right, but that means it will work more than 0% of the time
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> i can reproduce that with adwaita btw
<ochosi> you get the same flickering there
<bluesabre> the flicker, yeah
<ochosi> and that is most likely a gtk+3 bug
<bluesabre> is there any frame_extents hacking we could employ here?
<ochosi> because the panel is definitely at the location 0x0 and doesn't have any borders set
<ochosi> uff, maybe
<ochosi> not sure
<ochosi> one could also ask olivier about this kind of bug
<ochosi> not sure he uses the panel though
<ochosi> anyway, adding the classes to the panel -> certainly a good idea
<ochosi> (btw, switching to different themes and the panel icons still being correctly colored because of gtk+3 and symbolic stuff is quite noice)
<bluesabre> Indeed
<bluesabre> ochosi, BTW, I'm starting to work on an Xfce screen saver based on early light-locker by your suggestion
<bluesabre> I think it could be nice to have in -core, and less of a pain than light-locker
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i guess people will be happy to have a replacement for xscreensaver
<ochosi> especially a less-ugly one
<ochosi> ok, i have a working patch for setting orientation related classes on the panel
<bluesabre> Sweet
<ochosi> i'll try to clean it up and push it
<brainwash> bluesabre: what makes early light-locker special?
<ochosi> brainwash: it doesnt rely on lightdm but locks inside the session
<ochosi> in theory one could try to provide both features in one locker
<ochosi> with an option to either lock within the session or switch to the greeter
<ochosi> (the latter is probably the securer method)
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i have the final patch, but no git server to push it to...
<brainwash> reskinning mate-screensaver would not be an option?
<ochosi> it's not about skinning
<ochosi> early light-locker was gnome-screensaver without depends
<ochosi> that's why i called it *light* locker
<ochosi> bluesabre: if you wanna give it a try: http://dpaste.com/2QKSTR8
<brainwash> ah. so, mate-screensaver still depends on mate services
<ochosi> i would guess so
<bluesabre> Yes
<ochosi> but i haven't ever tried it or taken a look
<bluesabre> I tried porting mate-screensaver earlier
<bluesabre> Lots of mate-specific bits
<ochosi> anyway, i'll push that panel commit another time and then i can also "fix" that bug in greybird
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool. Will test it later, currently on the go
<ochosi> bluesabre: i guess you can start about somewhere here: https://github.com/the-cavalry/light-locker/commit/6bde1f1785c131617f53df2a6fa195eb4ae1c9e9
<ochosi> that may be one of the last meaningful commits with a lock dialog
<ochosi> night y'all
<bluesabre> ochosi: that's exactly where I've started :D
<Spass> bluesabre, ochosi, that flickering bug is not Xfce-only, see more here: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2397371
<Spass> and not GTK-only, since Plank flickers on Kubuntu also
<Spass> and here's a recent post on r/xfce subreddit, same issue https://www.reddit.com/r/xfce/comments/9jgztj/bug_in_xfces_panel_causes_weird_flickering_is/
<Spass> (well... Plank is a GTK app, so in fact it still could be a GTK bug)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-30
<guiver_d> I've had an issue with install (daily iso 18.10) & grub installation; what package should I list?  (after good install, reboot showed non-ubuntu-grub; requiring bios change to boot a different drive)
<brainwash> guiver_d: probably grub-installer
<guiver_d> thanks brainwash  (grub-common will get the blame; had to be a package I have installed; grub-install is in that package...)  Thanks for help!
<brainwash> flocculant: is the test mentioned in the description for bug 1321445 still there or was it removed?
<ubottu> bug 1321445 in xfce4-session (Fedora) "enable sound events in xfce4-appearance-settings doesn't work" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1321445
<brainwash> "Minimizing & maximizing a window doesn't make any sound as described in the testcase."
<brainwash> I guess basically testing event sounds after enabling them
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-23
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<ochosi> bluesabre: do you think we can still get a bugfix release of the panel into 19.10?
<ochosi> one issue that we may have a patch for now is the systray issues without compositing
<ochosi> the other bugfixes are less SRU relevant
<ochosi> or freeze-exception-relevant
<ochosi> although they're also annoying, those bugs...
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-25
<bluesabre> ochosi: definitely
<ochosi> bluesabre: why i'm asking is because i guess we all prefer a release to shipping patches, i could do one today or tomorrow for the panel
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, I'm fine with either, but a release means that not only Ubuntu benefits :)
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> and regular patch releases for 4.14 are on my agenda anyway
<ochosi> we did far too few for 4.12 imo
<bluesabre> Builds: Xubuntu Desktop amd64 [Eoan Beta] has been updated (20190925)
<akxwi-dave> testing the new build as I type
<gijoe3k> Hello friends, Have an a question about the XFCE screen saver. From what I understand it's a fork of the MATE screen saver which in return is a fork of the GNOME screen saver. Which ultimately comes from Xscreensaver.  Is it safe to say that XFCE screen saver is just the same as XScreensaver in terms of being 100% combatible with all Xscreensaver modules....even the new ones that come out? Or should I just run straight Xscreensaver to ensure I get 
<gijoe3k> all the old and new screensavers that come out for Xscreensaver? 
<Unit193> gijoe3k: I haven't tested, but I believe they work just the same.
<Unit193> gijoe3k: Eg, Maze3D works, which is pretty new.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.14.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-panel-4-14-1-released-tp55908.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<Unit193> Not it!
<bluesabre> Will tackle it tomorrow night or Friday
<bluesabre> Still basically running 100% at work until the end of the quarter
<Unit193> :/
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-26
<knome> ok, so i might have time to do the wallpaper today...
<ochosi> knome: got anywhere with it already?
<ochosi> ("it" being the wallpaper)
<bluesabre> Happy to see we have some testers for the beta
<bluesabre> I'm going to do a spot check myself, then mark complete if it looks sane
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-27
<bluesabre> WIP release notes here: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/19.10/release-notes, feel free to modify or extend
<bluesabre> No energy left, if anybody wants to take the beta for a spin, be sure to record your results... http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/406/builds/200083/testcases
<knome> ochosi, not really.. :/ i'm in the middle of building an event for this weekend
<knome> but come monday...
<brainwash> bluesabre: it's strange to list the task manager tooltip bug while it has been fixed upstream some time ago
<bluesabre> brainwash: ochosi hasn't released the patched version yet :)
<brainwash> is a release planned?
<brainwash> I think time is running out
<Unit193> I hear the heat death of the universe is still a couple years away, despite people wishing it were sooner.
<Unit193> One *could* just grab a patch, to avoid the universe thingy.
<Unit193> (I have no idea what I'm talking about.)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> I'm going to try to catch us up a bit this weekend... I'll be fully available again on Tuesday
<ochosi> bluesabre: i can do a taskman maintenance release tonight if it helps
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-28
<LelixSuper> Hi! Is https://bugzilla.xfce.org/ down?
