#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-27
<jenda> aw
<jono> Burgundavia: ping!
<Burgundavia> jono: pong
<jono> Burgundavia: want to skype?
<Burgundavia> need to install it, just a sec
<jono> ok give me a few mins to get downstairs too
<poningru> quick question how does one make screen cap vids?
<poningru> istanbul seems pretty lame
<Burgundavia> need sound or not?
<Burgundavia> what format are you looking for?
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> hold on
<poningru> no sound any format
<Burgundavia> bynanz does gif
* poningru guesses Burgundavia got into the skype call
<poningru> oh hmm
<theCore> Burgundavia, ping
<Burgundavia> theCore: pong
<Burgundavia> hey Madpilot, rex
<Madpilot> hi Burgundavia 
<Madpilot> enjoying the snow?
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> did you lose power at any point?
<Madpilot> we did here, briefly. I was up at the airport all day, it flickered a few times and made the UPS boxes complain, but never went out.
<somerville32> Are we going to get 23 out tonight?
<somerville32> :)
<theCore> Burgundavia, you been quoted on Linux.com
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> and slashdot and arstechnica
<elkbuntu> he's been quoted all over the place the past weekend
<theCore> whoa
<theCore> they consider you as a developer
<theCore> see you're developer now
<Burgundavia> funny, given I have met joe
<poningru> joe?
<somerville32> That writer of the article.
<poningru> oh
<poningru> gotcha
<somerville32> So... UWN23?
<somerville32> Burgundavia: Are you feeling better?
<Burgundavia> yep, but still tired
<somerville32> Are we going to roll out UWN23 tonight?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> I need to poke at my UWN queyue
<Burgundavia> somerville32: can you add a bit about http://behindubuntu.org/interviews/JonoBacon/
<Burgundavia> jenda: around?
<somerville32> I already did
<Burgundavia> oh, right
* Burgundavia is slowly loosing his mind
<somerville32> :)
<Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeamMeeting20061124 <-- short para on that?
<somerville32> Sure :)
<Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022542.html
<somerville32> k
<Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/sounder/2006-November/009449.html
<Burgundavia> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/loco-contacts/2006-November/000806.html
<Burgundavia> http://thamizh.ubuntuforums.org/ <-- new tamil forums
<somerville32> Ack1
<somerville32> Wiki bug!
<mpt> Rheet!
<Burgundavia> hey mpt
<Burgundavia> I think it probably needs a "what makes this an interesting release" bit
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, well we did already ditch the feature thing for the spec thing
<Burgundavia> true, but covering new crack in Feisty is importnat
<poningru> mpt: RHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
<elkbuntu> on the topic of version numbers, i think keeping them for security has a valid purpose, and it's not a huge web of alphanumeric babble
<poningru> thats a first here
<poningru> :D
* poningru jumps into UWN
<poningru> whats there to be done?
<Burgundavia> we are discussing the Feisty section
<somerville32> Colin Watson is a Canonical employee right?
<Burgundavia> yepo
<mpt> correct Kees Cook's name :-)
<somerville32> Also, I'm editing the page right now (just so you all know, haha)
<elkbuntu> somerville32, that's why we're adding things to your todo list
<somerville32> haha
<somerville32> <g>
<poningru> why not gobby it?
<Burgundavia> here is a thought: I can dump all the interesting releases on a page and we can attack them as a team
<Burgundavia> go out there and see if we can find a changelog
<Burgundavia> ?
<poningru> mmk
<elkbuntu> that sounds like work
<Burgundavia> yes, yes it does
<Burgundavia> not much, however, if we all do it
<Burgundavia> we can also be ruthless
<Burgundavia> if we cannot find a changelog, we drop it
<poningru> dump it then good sir
<elkbuntu> we can try it.. awaiting somerville32's go-ahead for gobby dumping
<Burgundavia> right then
<Burgundavia> somerville32: finish up what you are doing in the next 30 secs, save and then dump to gobby
<somerville32> Yes, Sir!
* somerville32 salutes sharply.
<somerville32> <g>
<Burgundavia> ok, applications list is up in gobby
<Burgundavia> is nasty looking, but I think we can handle it
<poningru> one of these days I have to clean up that sucker
<somerville32> Ok, saved.
<Burgundavia> you do
<somerville32> Whats the address and port?
<poningru> 72-209-68-178
<poningru> and port is the default
<poningru> 6522 iirc
<poningru> password ufl@ftw
<Burgundavia> when you take an application to research, copy it over to the main page, to tell people that you are working on that
<Burgundavia> somerville32: dump the raw wiki text on gobby
<Burgundavia> if you cannot find an upstream changelog, ditch it
<somerville32> Ok
* somerville32 is connecting.
<Burgundavia> http://qsynth.sourceforge.net/qsynth-index.html <-- there is a good example of a good upstream changes file
<somerville32> Ok pasted raw intto UWN23
<Burgundavia> for larger projects like KDE and GNOME, simply link to the larger changelog
<Burgundavia> make sure you mention the uploader
<Burgundavia> version number is only important if this is a major new version
<Burgundavia> poningru: dig into qsythn
<poningru> k
<poningru> Burgundavia: where do you want the changelogs to go?
<poningru> under each update thing?
<Burgundavia> I will write an example
<Admiral_Chicago> blah the website to UWN 22 made my computer crawl for no good reason
<Burgundavia> see the example
<poningru> should I put in another title?
<Burgundavia> nope
<poningru> ===?
<poningru> k
<imbrandon> moins all
<elkbuntu> imbrandon, we're in gobby with the UWN, if you want any last words
<elkbuntu> 72.209.68.178 ufl@ftw
<imbrandon> i think i'm good this time, you all probably got it covered, my big stuff will be next week ( beryl is in the NEW queue now heheh )
<Burgundavia> who is this person? towsonu2003
<Burgundavia> imbrandon: beryl!!!!!!!!#!@!@#$!!!! yay crack!Q@W#$!@!!@#$#Q$^@#$
* Burgundavia qw-8q4tw=098sfdgpojq40=8a
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: hahaha
<imbrandon> yea
<imbrandon> my thoughts too
<Burgundavia> boy that was fun
<imbrandon> i'm reaming upstream atm over some of their bugs
<imbrandon> :)
<Burgundavia> can I join? I have a bigger spoon
<elkbuntu> hehehe
<imbrandon> Burgundavia: hehe
<elkbuntu> hmm.. dad has a metre long memorial wooden spoon somewhere
<Burgundavia> perfect
<somerville32> Ugh oh.
<somerville32> I think gobby froze on me
<Burgundavia> hmm, fu n
<Burgundavia> it does that occasionally
<jenda> somerville32: @ your ping...
<jenda> maybe too informative :)
<jenda> "a free Ubuntu Poster, like the one bellow, for free!"
<somerville32> Gak
<jenda> somerville32: wait... I like it ;)
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> :D
<jenda> but it should be more obvious that it's intentional...
<somerville32> "...a free Ubuntu Poster, like the one bellow, for extra free!"?
<jenda> see now.
<jenda> or...
<somerville32> :)
<jenda> we are the free software world, afterall :)
<jenda> BTW, even if you don't win the poster, they only cost $1 ;)
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> Jenda: Can you release the lock on the wiki page so I can import from gobby?
<elkbuntu> hmm... mine didnt arrive yet :(
<jenda> elkbuntu: patience, some have arrived just yesterday.
<jenda> somerville32: how?
<somerville32> It's ok, I think you already did
<somerville32> :)
<jenda> 
<somerville32> Burgundavia: Are you going to put the table of contents back in?
<elkbuntu> jenda, but but.. they're so awesome i want to huggle them
<Burgundavia> hmm
<jenda> BTW, somerville32, you might want to put [:CodySomerville: Cody Somerville]  in the credits instead (up to you)
<jenda> elkbuntu: hehe :) let's hope they gets there soon :)
<somerville32> Jenda: kk :)
* jenda goes hunt
<Burgundavia> jenda: umm, no moinism in the UWN
<somerville32> Jenda: How much to order posters agian?
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> We missed something
<somerville32> Changes in Feisty (Not finished)
<Burgundavia> got it
<somerville32> :)
<elkbuntu> well.. it sorta would have fit even if it slipped through
<somerville32> <G>
<elkbuntu> it might have been good to remind people that feisty isnt finished yet ;)
<somerville32> Alright!
<somerville32> Lets get started on issue 24 now! :D
<Burgundavia> go ahead
<somerville32> :] 
<Burgundavia> read to send. Last check
* somerville32 will proof once more.
<somerville32> Found typo
<somerville32> organisations
<somerville32> It is spelt with a z, right?
<Burgundavia> that is not a typo
<Burgundavia> s is international, z is american
<somerville32> Thats not what Firefox 2.0 tells me <g>
<somerville32> Oh
<somerville32> Stupid Firefox
<somerville32> icident is a typo though
<Burgundavia> fix it
<somerville32> Ok, done
<poningru> err what happened?
* poningru reads scrollback
* somerville32 pokes Jenda.
<Burgundavia> one last readthrough
<poningru> sorry had an impromptu alacloud.net meeting
<somerville32> :] 
<Burgundavia> ok, we ready?
* somerville32 nods.
<jenda> err...
<jenda> sorry, was away.
<jenda> breakfasting.
<Burgundavia> jenda: one last sanity check
<jenda> somerville32: posters are $(5 + x)
* jenda reads through the UWN
<somerville32> Jenda: How many people have ordered?
<jenda> somerville32: dunno about people, but sent over 300 posters
<somerville32> All happy campers? :] 
<jenda> I think so, except elkbuntu who's still waiting ;)
<elkbuntu> yeah... mean post office...
<elkbuntu> i want posters to huggle
<somerville32> Ever shipped to Canada?
<jenda> several times, I believe.
<somerville32> And what currency is this in?
<jenda> USD
* jenda stares at the "a free Ubuntu Poster, like the one bellow, for free!"
<Burgundavia> fix it
<jenda> will do
<jenda> I just saw the calling all LoCos
<jenda> what type of stuff are you interested in?
<jenda> ie. - we had a meeting last week.
<Burgundavia> what you are doing
<jenda> fixing
<jenda> fixed
<somerville32> Jenda: I'll buy 10 posters.
<jenda> somerville32: cool, lemme just finish reading this thrilling piece of thing, and I'll note ya
<elkbuntu> jenda, newsworthy stuff mostly. we're not really after 'joe blogg's cds arrived'
<jenda> somerville32: as with all monday-orders, you are lucky, because they'll get shipped out immediately.
<somerville32> I'll pay with paypal
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> Whats your e-mail address?
<Burgundavia> lets focus on getting this UWN out
<jenda> elkbuntu: how about 'joe blogg scheduled a meeting, and got terribly pwned over the reservation of a pub, as the pub he chose was already reserved, so had to wait in front of it for the rest of the team and had to drag them across town till they found an open one?"
<jenda> indeed
<jenda> somerville32: just a sec :)
<elkbuntu> jenda, not quite, unless a crapload of cds and merch got distributed :)
<jenda> Burgundavia: can I add a bit about the Irish team's forum?
<jenda> adding
<jenda> added
<somerville32> :)
<jenda> guys, is the formulation "As per usual," english?
<Burgundavia> yes
<somerville32> Found typo
* somerville32 goes to correct.
<jenda> ok
<somerville32> Fixed.
<somerville32> KAdressBook -> KAddressBook :)
<jenda> screen-casts or screencasts?
<Madpilot> one word
<jenda> gotcha
<jenda> Madpilot: payment received, thx - did teh posters get there?
<Madpilot> jenda, don't think they're here yet; my mailing address isn't my residence, tho
<jenda> ah, ok
<jenda> OK, I'm done reading.
<somerville32> ok :)
<somerville32> What is your e-mail address?
<jenda> somerville32: depends, do you want to pay by paypal directly, or by credit/debit card?
<somerville32> paypal directly
<jenda> jenda at ubuntu dot com
<jenda> fifteen dollars please ;)
<Burgundavia> somerville32: you done editing?
<Burgundavia> jenda: ?
<jenda> Burgundavia: done
<somerville32> Yup
<somerville32> Done.
<Burgundavia> ok
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you done?
<elkbuntu> i wasnt touching it... other things atm
<Burgundavia> ok
<somerville32> Jenda: Aren't you going to ask me for my mailing address? :P
<jenda> somerville32: no, paypal will tell me
<somerville32> Oh, cool :)
<jenda> 
<somerville32> Whats your local currency?
<jenda> CZK
<jenda> Czech Koruna
<jenda> somerville32: what's your shipping address? :)
<somerville32> lol
<jenda> (feel free to PM)
<somerville32> I thought you said it attached it with paypal payment
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-marketing:Burgundavia] : Welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing Team's IRC channel | We're here to fix Bug #1 | Please sign up to the mailing list, ubuntu-marketing at lists.ubuntu.com | UWN 23 is out, 24 in progress
<jenda> yes, but I need the address now, while you can pay with paypal at your leisure.
<poningru> woot
<poningru> so wait what did we miss?
<Burgundavia> nothing
<Burgundavia> work on 24
<poningru> or go to sleep
<poningru> class in the morn... then make pirate art... then job interview
<poningru> hooray for 5 hours of sleep
<poningru> nn guys
<Burgundavia> we need to cover the Mark thingy next week
* somerville32 has tomorrow (aka later today) off.
<Burgundavia> avoiding it just makes it worse
<Burgundavia> http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/7486/997/
* somerville32 nods.
* poningru shakes fist at somerville32 
<poningru> Burgundavia++
<somerville32> Somerville32++
<Burgundavia> start adding links, like that one, to something
<Burgundavia> and add a note "DON'T START WRITING THIS ARTICLE"
<Burgundavia> we will write the article in gobby
<Burgundavia> where it will not sit, half finished, for a week on a wiki page
<somerville32> Who is "we", btw?
* somerville32 grins.
<Burgundavia> the lot of us
<somerville32> The lot of us FTW :)
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, WRT that link, what did I say last night about "How to Poach Devs, by SABDFL"? ;)
<Burgundavia> yep
<somerville32> We'll want to make sure we're completly objective, right?
<Burgundavia> absolutely
<Burgundavia> exactly why we are going to write in gobby, so we can arrive at consensus together
* somerville32 nods.
* Burgundavia wonders if you can have consensus seperately...
<somerville32> IMHO, this whole fighting just uses up valuable creativity and energy that could have been put into making the Linux Desktop better.
<Burgundavia> indeed, that will be the primary point I think we will want to make
<somerville32> I read the OpenSuse ml and some of the responses were very colourful
<somerville32> And they were _very_ mean
<Burgundavia> some of the reponses were less than civl
<Burgundavia> some were quite insightful
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> How do you modify the template?
<somerville32> Oh, I think I figured it out.
<Burgundavia> ok, added lots of links
<somerville32> Burgundavia: I've updated the things we discussed in the template.
<Burgundavia> ok, cool
<Burgundavia> can you update 24 to reflect those changes?
<somerville32> Yup :)
<Burgundavia> thanks
<somerville32> We should do the accelerated-x specification for the specification spotlight since it is a hot hot topic right now
<Burgundavia> cover all the X specs
<Burgundavia> bulletproofX and composite by default
<somerville32> Sure :)
<Madpilot> night all
* somerville32 waves.
<elkbuntu> "<somerville32> IMHO, this whole fighting ... " ... not to mention it's detracting from the event
<somerville32> eh?
<elkbuntu> somerville32, i thought, given madpilot's remark previously, that your comment was about the open week, and was commenting that the fighting is more than just being a waste of energy, it's also putting a sour note over the whole event
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> That too
<tonyyarusso> I'm looking forward to open week stuff, although a lot of it's during class.
<Burgundavia> I am worried that the openweek stuff is going to be overshadowed by this opensuse stuff
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, it already has been
<Burgundavia> to a certain extent, yes
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, people arent talking about the open week, they're talking about poaching
<Burgundavia> yes
<tonyyarusso> You know what I'm gonna do?  Blog about open week and not say a word about the other crap.
<somerville32> :D
<Burgundavia> good plan
<tonyyarusso> Actually, that's all my readership is likely to care about anyway.
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: you an Ubuntu member yet?
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: No
<Burgundavia> fix that
<tonyyarusso> Yes master
<Burgundavia> good boy :)
<tonyyarusso> I'm waiting to see if the next CC meeting is a time I can make
<Burgundavia> jono gave me no timeframe, but said he would look into it
<tonyyarusso> My biggest worry at this point is that it will fall either a) during an exam, or b) during the early-evening hours over Christmas break.
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, i did similar... except i acknowledged controversy
<somerville32> I want to become a member
<tonyyarusso> If a, clearly I'm screwed, and if b, my family would be pissed if I hogged the phone line for as long as those meetings take (and given the length of agenda so far, I'm thinking 6 hours)
* somerville32 hopes the next CC meeting is a time he can make as well.
<somerville32> brb
<elkbuntu> fwiw, the agenda needs updating
<tonyyarusso> Ah crud, another e-acronym I don't know.
<elkbuntu> for what it's worth
<tonyyarusso> Ah
<tonyyarusso> Maybe I'd be able to schedule myself for a particular time in the CC meeting - that would be handy
<elkbuntu> about 1/3rd of those people have gone before the CC, the irc discussion i believe was dismissed as lacking clear arguement, and im not sure the translation leader thing is relevant any longer
<Burgundavia> better to let it sit, however
<Burgundavia> rather than preemptively nuke somethign and have somebody get annoyed over it
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, yea. i have no intention of playing with the CC agenda plge
<elkbuntu> page*
<Burgundavia> ok, just checking
<elkbuntu> i'd like for this thing attached to my neck remain that way
* Burgundavia is tempting to say something rude, but that might be against the CoC
<elkbuntu> lol
<Burgundavia> ok, my boss spent his Saturday updating the company wiki on our offices
<Burgundavia> Website_Sumbission_Forms <-- actual name of a page on the company wiki
<Burgundavia> anyway, is almost 2
<Burgundavia> need to sleep
<somerville32> Almost 6am here :] 
<Burgundavia> crazy
<tonyyarusso> There's a company wiki?  Your employer is a lot more with it than most.
<Burgundavia> not really
<Burgundavia> it was more a case of "shiny?" "oh shiny!"
<tonyyarusso> I just woke up.
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-marketing.log
<YoussefAssad> Hello.
<YoussefAssad> I'm having a spot of trouble sending mail to the list. I've been on the team for months, and every time I send something it sends it to a moderator queue, citing posting by a non-member.
<YoussefAssad> Yes, the e-mail addy I am sending from is registered in launchpad.net
<tonyyarusso> YoussefAssad: You should join the list
<YoussefAssad> oh, okay. So that is distinct form the team.
* YoussefAssad goes looking, but not before thanking tonyyarusso 
<tonyyarusso> YoussefAssad: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, LP teams and mailing lists aren't integrated
<YoussefAssad> Ah, of course the quickest way to find the link is in the headers
<YoussefAssad> though, I obviously had been subbed to that seeing how I was receiving the e-mails
<YoussefAssad> anyho let's see if I cannow flame at will
<YoussefAssad> oho! Works
<YoussefAssad> I had an interesting picture which might mae a nice stock for ubuntu marketing purposes...
<YoussefAssad> http://youssefassad.blogspot.com/2005/09/egyptian-linux-users-groups-second.html
<YoussefAssad> ignore that, use this:  http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4359/958/1600/dsci1407.jpg
<YoussefAssad> is there an overarching workplan for the marketing team?
<YoussefAssad> Sorry, I'm used to thinking in workplan terms
<tonyyarusso> The wiki page has some goals, but it's not as defined as you would likely see for an employer's plan.
<YoussefAssad> do you think it makes sense to have somethig structured like that?
<tonyyarusso> If you want to put it together, it might be useful for some people.  Others just do random things on the spur of the moment, so sometimes it's appropriate, sometimes not.
<YoussefAssad> Hm. Random things.
<YoussefAssad> I have positive experiences shepherding a LUG into structured work (a few scratches and bruises here and thee, but the results are phenomenal). I'm wondering if it might not make more sense to take a step back and think about that aspect
<YoussefAssad> The workplan is certainly something I _can_ do (I do that with the UNDP and Grameen for bread and beer). But if such a resource would end up a disused wiki page, I won't.
<tonyyarusso> Ask for people's thoughts on the mailing list
<jackflap> hello?
<YoussefAssad> hi jackflap 
<somerville32> :)
<jackflap> so, what plans are there to get ubuntu pre-installed on machines for sale in shops?
<somerville32> If we get critical mass, people will start pre-installing it on machines for sale in shops :)
<jackflap> people have already tried to start pre-installing, but microsoft leverages their muscle and stamps it out..
<jackflap> seems like the only way to go about it is to start opening linux-friendly shops
<jerom1> Hi all
<jackflap> hi
<jerom1> i would install 50 servers on Ubuntu
<jerom1> would the Ubuntu project be interested to do a little communication around my HA platform ?
<jerom1> ??
<YoussefAssad> jerom1: might make a nice addition to the newsletter
<jerom1> Yes why not !
<YoussefAssad> jerom1: how are your writing skills? :)
<YoussefAssad> Newsletter isn't my thing, but just thinking out loud with you. I think Corey Burger was the person running thatone
<somerville32> Why would make a nice addition to the newsletter?
<YoussefAssad> somerville32: why or what?
<somerville32> Err..
<somerville32> *What
<somerville32> haha :)
<YoussefAssad> somerville32: jerom1 is sitting on a 50 node HA ubuntu cluster
<somerville32> Cool :)
<YoussefAssad> yes it is
<YoussefAssad> jerom1: are you good at writing?
<jerom1> youssef: I want a little assistance well; -)
<YoussefAssad> jerom1: tell you what. If you get approval for the story, write it and I'll clean it up for you.
<jerom1> youssef : thanks, cool
<YoussefAssad> jerom1: if and when, I'm at josef.assad@gmail.com
<jerom1> ok thanks
<jerom1> another question, canonical support service is it available now ?
<Admiral_Chicago> jerom1: yes
<jerom1> how to contact canonical ?
<jerom1> i send request in online form, but i have zero response
<YoussefAssad> jerom1: how long did you wait?
<jerom1> three day
<somerville32> It is the weekend
<jerom1> non last friday
<somerville32> You have to keep into account time zones
<somerville32> *take
<somerville32> I'd wait another day or three
<somerville32> :)
<jerom1> someville32 : oki, sorry
<jerom1> bye
<somerville32> Burgwork: Maybe ubuntu-marketing could do a UOW session sometime this week?
<Burgwork> I believe elkbuntu is already doing something like that
<somerville32> It isn't on the schedule
<tsmithe> UOW? schedule?
<somerville32> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
<Burgwork> http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/11/27/1633208&from=rss
<Burgwork> oh joy
<YoussefAssad> oh joy indeed. I've made the same decision
<somerville32>  :O
<somerville32> I think everyone is just trying to write the blog posts that will get them quoted or placed on slashdot's front page.
<YoussefAssad> Like sabdfl's suse letter?
<tsmithe> ah open week. i see ;)
<nixternal> Burgwork: i think i will chalk newsforge up as a uselss news provider now, if they are going to let people use it the way he did there (almost written with blog appeal utilizing his personal opinions)
<Burgwork> that is just roblimo
<YoussefAssad> I'd think that damage control would be within the mandate of the ubuntu marketing team
<nixternal> that article is expected on /. or digg, but that is flat out idiotic to be on a major OSS news source
<tonyyarusso> Uh oh, what happened now?
<YoussefAssad> there certainly is some fallout from the binary drivers issue, never mind the open letter to suse devs
<nixternal> im against the whole binary driver thing, i don't game so i don't need them...but for gamers, they need something, i think freedom should also lie in the "freedom of the user to choose what they want installed"
<nixternal> GPL doesn't cover that oddly enough
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork, nixternal: Care to fill me in?
<whiprush> everyone's a lawyer now!
<nixternal> ya
<nixternal> haha
<Burgwork> i don't have time to answer you all right now, but I will in time
<Burgwork> bug me in about 9 hours
<nixternal> when rms was here a couple of weeks ago, he was asked, what about the users freedom to install binary drivers, and he wouldn't comment, said it was against the GPL
<whiprush> he was in here?
<nixternal> no, at the Chicago LUG
<nixternal> hehe
<whiprush> oh, heh
<nixternal> forgot to clarify that one ;p
<YoussefAssad> I think that's being facetious. Its clear that a user has a right to play games, but that must be offset against other rights. Just because they're all rights doesn't mean some aren't mutually exclusive. I have a righ to enjoy life and I also have the right to shoot myself
<nixternal> YoussefAssad: and i have the right to shoot you too ;p
<Burgwork> woah, geez
<nixternal> although, doing so takes away all my rights
<nixternal> let me finish there Burgwork  ;)
<YoussefAssad> nixternal: and I have the right to refuse that. There you go, contradicting rights. The values of our community defines which right takes precedence
<nixternal> lol, yup
<nixternal> block it/refuse it matrix style
<nixternal> i think the user should have whatever rights they want..i don't get how we can tell them here are the rights we want you to have (although they do it here in the US)
<nixternal> but then again, like whiprush, i am far from a lawyer, although i play one on tv
<nixternal> s/like whiprush/like whiprush said/
<YoussefAssad> my point is, you can't grant someone _all_ possible rights at the same time.
<nixternal> very true
<nixternal> i guess there does need to be a little governance on the rights
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: such an RMS answer. "no it's against the GPL"
<tonyyarusso> I didn't know the GPL had a clause against installing non-gpl software....
<tonyyarusso> silly rms
<YoussefAssad> maybe he's tired of explaining it
<davehat> wow - that newsforge piece linked above is atrocious! Who is "Robin 'Roblimo' Miller"
<nixternal> hehe
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: how many CDs do you have left?L
<nixternal> YoussefAssad: i think you are dead on with that...i recently listened to a podcast where he went off on one of the hosts concerning it
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: not many
<nixternal> do you need more? i can possibly get more dapper cds
<nixternal> as for the edgy cds...they are almost gone..i have a couple more people to get some out to as well
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: no i've only handed oud around 15
<YoussefAssad> nixternal: do you have a link to where RMS said it was against the GPL?
<tonyyarusso> davehat: what is the link?
<nixternal> YoussefAssad: i will try and find the podcast...it was some linux only type deal
<davehat> http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/11/27/1633208&from=rss
* nixternal heads to lunch
<davehat> posted by burgwork
<YoussefAssad> right
<YoussefAssad> So, according to that page, RMS says that the only circumstances under which he would conider it acceptable to use non-free software is when there genuinely is no alternative. I don't consider beryl by default to be a life-or-death thing. Call me nuts
<somerville32> I don't think this the place to discuss beryl or it's inclusion in Ubuntu by default. :)
<lotusleaf> YoussefAssad: how does that tie into marketing?
<davehat> somerville32: so I take it here's not the best place to ask how to get beryl working :)
<YoussefAssad> You're right, it is nominally off-topic.
<somerville32> davehat: Afraid not :)
<YoussefAssad> Damage control being out of scope for a marketing team, naturally.
* davehat was kidding
<YoussefAssad> But yes, off-topic. Apologies.
* somerville32 knows. :)
<davehat> so, now that I've lurked in this room a good few times and finally un-lurked myself just now... what can I offer to do to pitch in with marketing?
<davehat> is there anywhere I should go an have a look first?
<lotusleaf> davehat: marketing team on the wiki, mailing list
<davehat> OK, just joined the list
* davehat toddles off to look at the wiki
<lotusleaf> davehat: marketing team page on the wiki & launchpad
<davehat> (any particular page?)
<Burgwork> http://lwn.net/Articles/211216/
<davehat> oops - got it, thanks
<lotusleaf> davehat: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam
<lotusleaf> Burgwork: thx for the link
<tsmithe> ping jenda
<tsmithe> ping ping ping ping ping
<lotusleaf> tsmithe: I tried to catch jendafish earlier, no response. I bet he's playing wesnoth
<tsmithe> wesnoth?
<lotusleaf> tsmithe: #wesnoth
<lotusleaf> lol @ <cpm> no one could ever bring any anti trust action against Microsoft ever again, this has been made deeply clear.
<lotusleaf> anyway, going to offtopic ;)
<tsmithe> lol
<tsmithe> ping jenda
<tsmithe> ping ping ping ping ping
<tsmithe> bah
<tsmithe> ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping p
<tsmithe> ing ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping pi
<tsmithe> ng ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping pin
<tsmithe> g ping jendA!
* tsmithe apologises in advance
<somerville32> Gak!
<tsmithe> :)
<lotusleaf> holy goetia, mother of baal
<lotusleaf> we need #ubuntu-marketing-offtopic
* tsmithe wanted jenda's attention
<lotusleaf> tsmithe: why not send him a memo via /ms send jenda blahblah
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> good idea
<tsmithe> forgot about that
<lotusleaf> =)
<lotusleaf> I love that feature
<tsmithe> right, /me registers ##ubuntu-marketing-offtopic
<ompaul> tsmithe, if you were not known doing that could get you banned very quickly and ping j is more valuable to him than all that other stuff - that just annoys people in the same channel
<ompaul> tsmithe, there is no justification for that 
<tsmithe> sorry
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+o nixternal]  by ChanServ
<nixternal> muhahaha
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-o nixternal]  by ChanServ
<ompaul> the -offtpic that
<ompaul> is
<nixternal> watch the spamming
<tsmithe> will do
* ompaul looks at nixternal 
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> sup ompaul 
* ompaul looks at tsmithe 
* tsmithe didn't realise it would be so many lines
* tsmithe looks bashful
<nixternal> lol
<nixternal> accidents happen, but don't let them happen again ;) haha
<tsmithe> it won't
<tsmithe> i wont copy and paste ping in future
<nixternal> lol...good deal
<nixternal> now get in #ubuntu-classroom and learn about the community (and Kubuntu now)
<ompaul> nixternal, nothing much
<ompaul> KDE pawaaaaa no :P
<nixternal> doh
<tsmithe> nixternal, /me thought it was rosetta
* ompaul <3 gnome
<nixternal> kNewSense?
<tsmithe> oh, wait, it's now 2000
<ompaul> hehe
<nixternal> hehe
* tsmithe prefers gnome also
* tsmithe goes to spam ##ubuntu-marketing-offtopic
<nixternal> i thought orinoco cards were closed cards..but i guess not...my lappy runs gNewSense wirelessly
<FredLight> Greetings. ^-^
<nixternal> greetings and salutations earthling ;p
<ompaul> nixternal, well we went hell for leather to get out the door, we figure that as time progresses we are one of the distros that gets smaller
<ompaul> :)
<ompaul> if it is non free it will stop working at sime stage
<ompaul> s/sime/some/
<nixternal> gotcha
<ompaul> stuff working is a bug :)
<nixternal> it might not work in rfmon mode though
<nixternal> which means no wifi hacking for me ;p
<ompaul> we ripped a lot out in the driver space
<ompaul> this is not -offtopic we really should take it there
<nixternal> hehe...im waiting for imbrandon to give his kubuntu speach
<ompaul> in the beginning was fvwm and then we had fvwm2, we also had xfce and wmakers
<ompaul> I remember hacking fvwm 1.x
<ompaul> that was fun then along came fvwm2 and it was just so much more
<ompaul> my little mind was blown away
<nixternal> hehe
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: yo
<Madpilot> greetings
<Madpilot> snowed in, so I can't get to work. What a pity. ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> Madpilot: that sounds awful...not
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> Hello there, folks
<Madpilot> hi jenda 
<jenda> A ton of us in here...
<jenda> Madpilot: yo there.
<jenda> Madpilot: anything new with the rough design?
<Madpilot> jenda, not currently, but I'll have time this afternoon to update it, thanks to the snow
<Madpilot> I'll add the complete copyright notice, for starters
<jenda> neat-o
<jenda> I'd really like the logo rough-ified better, but that's just me.
<jenda> Now it seems the demand for those shirts would be rather high, so it'll probably be either me or somebody else printing them out.
<jenda> There is a guy on the forums who seems he might be interested.
* tsmithe is also interested
<tsmithe> but... hmm... where i've looked prices were high
<tsmithe> who'd pay $15 per piece?!
<Madpilot> $15 for one t-shirt is fairly inexpensive
<tsmithe> really?
<Madpilot> for a logo'd limited edition shirt, yes
<tsmithe> jenda's were prob's gonna be about $10
<tsmithe> jenda?
<jenda> tsmithe: I was going to charge about $15 per t
<jenda> err..
<tsmithe> oh
<jenda> per t-shirt too
<jenda> but that's shipping included.
* tsmithe doesn't have 490 to invest in the shirts, though
<tsmithe> perhaps when i do...
<tsmithe> maybe then
<tsmithe> 'tis a pity...
<jenda> tsmithe: at that price, I wouldn't recommend.
<Burgwork> Madpilot: http://www.itmanagersjournal.com/feature/21456
<jenda> Im' buying at $6 apiece.
<tsmithe> jenda, that's why i'm not ;)
<jenda> But feel free to keep looking, or thinking of other things :)
<tsmithe> mine would probs end up about $11 apeice
* tsmithe looks at another supplier
<Madpilot> Burgwork, interesting
<omgponiezlol> did you all get those last three messages. freenode took a dive on me
<Burgwork> which ones?
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgwork: the one about pre-orders
<Burgwork> ah
<Burgwork> <Admiral_Chicago> Madpilot: that sounds awful...not <-- last line I have
<Admiral_Chicago> oh i said in regards to pricing, i think 15 (shipping included) is the highest most poeple would go, but I would suggest pre-orders for shirts
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgwork: thanks
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: did you catch my memo?
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, did you PM me?
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: do a /ms list
<Madpilot> gah, sorry, I'm bad at checking my memos on IRC 
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: np! :)
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda and tsmithe that would be my idea for shirts, pre-orders
<Admiral_Chicago> but i have to nap now
<tsmithe> hmm
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: can you expand on the idea?
<tsmithe> i had a poll on the forum for sizes
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: please PM me regarding the memo if/when you get a chance since it's unrelated to marketing, thx ;)
<jenda> not sure i know what you mean... but if I do, ... I will be accepting preorders if I end up doing the shirts.
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, I'll do your logo this afternoon too - I've got a bunch of graphics stuff to catch up on
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: the idea is you won't have to front the money yourself, you can get people willing to buy them to pay initially and that will help offset the cost of printing
<tsmithe> hmm... good idea
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: awesome, thanks =)
<Admiral_Chicago> i don't know how you will be handling the actual payment, i assume paypal (that would be my route)
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: I don't mind paying the money up front.
* tsmithe does
<jenda> But I know some people will be willing to pay in advance.
<jenda> paypal and bank transfer, choice of buyer, at their expense.
<jenda> or cash, of course.
<Admiral_Chicago> from my own experience of printing t-shirts, it would have been nice to have the money up front, it felt like i blew 100 all at once and got it back slowly over several weeks
<tsmithe> but did you make a profit?
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: I've done the posters this way. It feels good to risk your own money, not somebody elses.
<jenda> At least to me. I'd rather lose money than disappoint people :)
<Admiral_Chicago> i guess i'd have to explain what you mean by ris
<Admiral_Chicago> risk*
<tsmithe> jenda, that's kinda how i feel, 'cept i dont have the money in the first place
* tsmithe has just e-mailed another supplier
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: there's the chance that the entire batch burns while you carry it home, or that the shipping is twenty times the price you expected because it won't work without gold casing :)
<Admiral_Chicago> that's true
<Admiral_Chicago> i'd feel that as long as I broke even, that would be fine with me
<Admiral_Chicago> btw, if / when you / someone else prints them, i would try to get that in the UWN
<Admiral_Chicago> nap time
<Admiral_Chicago> it's long overdue
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: I will UWN, I will fridge, and I'll get a banner on the ubuntuforums.org, just like the one for posters right now.
<jenda> I'll also advertise on the mailing list.
* tsmithe will do the same, course
<somerville32> :)
<Madpilot> jenda, do you want a high-res bitmap version of the Ubuntu roughcut too, or can you work from the SVG?
<jenda> Madpilot: they said that if I send them both an SVG and an EPS, they'll be able to work with it.
<jenda> Can you export to EPS?
<jenda> (and they prefer vector over bitmap in any case)
<Madpilot> sure, Inkscape can do that. I know zip about EPS, but Inkscape appears to ;)
<Madpilot> OK, the EPS seems to work - at least, Evince displays it perfectly. Tarballing everything for emailing now.
<jenda> neat :)
<Madpilot> jenda, lotusleaf - tar.gz enroute
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: thx :)
<jenda> thx :)
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: I'm dabbling on launchpad.net atm it'll be a few
<tsmithe> can i see the tarball? jenda, can you host it on spreadubuntu, in the bzr repo, or summat?
<jenda> tsmithe: will do
<tsmithe> cool
<Madpilot> tsmithe, it'll be going into the bzr repo; older versions are already there
<tsmithe> i know ;) and thanks :)
<Madpilot> but I don't grok bzr, so I leave that uploading to jenda :)
<jenda> bzr'ing
<jenda> bzr'd
<tsmithe> cheers
<tsmithe> ping jenda
<jenda> pong
<tsmithe> pm
<jenda> k
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-28
<Burgwork> http://askthewebhost.net/blogs/asp/53712/
<Burgwork> please add that to the UWN
<Burgwork> http://feynmanboson.blogspot.com/2006/11/ubuntu-linux-for-human-beings.html
<YoussefAssad> there was the chap in here earlier with the ubuntu HA cluster; did someone manage to point him in the right direction, or reach an understanding of whether it was worthy of propagation as an ubuntu success story?
<Burgwork> no idea
<jono> jenda: ping!
<tsmithe> he's probs not around... remember it's 1am in prague now
<tsmithe> and his proxy means he never leaves
<jono> right
* YoussefAssad wonders if we have any idea of the profile of the UWN readership
* rjian good morning people
<YoussefAssad> morning rjian 
<rjian> YoussefAssad: morning 2
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, ping
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: pong
<Madpilot> lotusleaf, PM?
<lotusleaf> Madpilot: files received, apologies for delay, have been trying to get to the bottom of bug 62699
<Madpilot> no, this is about your website baner
<Madpilot> banner, even
<lotusleaf> ah
<lotusleaf> thanks, sure pm ;-)
<Burgundavia> whose around right now?
<Admiral_Chicago> i am
<Madpilot> Mrh?
<Burgundavia> who wants to help me work on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LookingForwardAtFeisty
<Burgundavia> ?
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: i can give it a shot
<Burgundavia> I am going to gobby it up, but I will lay it out first
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: okay that's fine, I helped with the write up of the official release notes for kubuntu edgy so i've done some of this
<Burgundavia> cool
<Admiral_Chicago> just let me  know when you stopped edititng so i could see the wiki
<Burgundavia> yep, will do
<Burgundavia> ok, wiki page editing with urls for specs
<Burgundavia> final sorting is far from complete
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: okay let me look at it
<Burgundavia> we need to add the upstream stuff to that
<Burgundavia> shall we move to gobby?
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: ^
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: gobby
<Burgundavia> ok, to poningru and his gobby thne
<Admiral_Chicago> ?
<Admiral_Chicago> i'm not sure what that is really
<Burgundavia> a collaborative editor
<Admiral_Chicago> okay i get you
<Burgundavia> you on edgy or dapper?
<Admiral_Chicago> let's add that
<Admiral_Chicago> odgy
<Admiral_Chicago> s/edgy
<Burgundavia> just install gobby then
<Burgundavia> requires gtk
<Admiral_Chicago> can do chief
<Admiral_Chicago> ah this gobby this is pretty sweet
<Burgundavia> see the ip and password on the Feisty page
<Burgundavia> here is the general goal
<Burgundavia> each spec should get at the very least a few lines
<Burgundavia> feel free to link to other resources, such as blog posts
<Burgundavia> try and tie specs together
<Admiral_Chicago> i don't see an IP
<Admiral_Chicago> give me a sec
<Admiral_Chicago> ah no i do
<Burgundavia> one thing to be aware of: gobby has no undo
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll keey that in mind
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: btw, installing gtk for gobby on windows broke gaim for a friend of mine...not sure how to make things share gtk
<tonyyarusso> silly windows having separated libs
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: for those specs, write only the high priority ones for now
<Burgundavia> as we cannot be for certain that everything is set in stone
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: let me open those links all up so I know what we are talking about here
<Burgundavia> yep
<Admiral_Chicago> i'll work on the Desktop Effects section
<Burgundavia> might want to leave that for right now
<Admiral_Chicago> alright then i'll do multimedia
<Burgundavia> ok
<lotusleaf> hmmm
<lotusleaf> a shame the ubuntu roughcut posters news never made boingboing.. and yet.. a story about how to turn your pee blue, did. :P
<Joe_CoT> Hey, I'm working on a poster for my LoCo team (an Inkscape ... shop of the "Obey Ubuntu" one). can someone take a look? I'm kinda not good at writing anything interesting :)
<Joe_CoT> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewJerseyTeam/PosterSpec
<Madpilot> Joe_CoT, looks good - nice to see my posters being used & modified!
<Joe_CoT> hehe. svg makes it painfully easy :)
<Madpilot> use a rougher font for your additions, though - there are lots of 'distressed typewriter' fonts around
<Madpilot> yes, SVG rocks
<Madpilot> try dafont.com for piles of free-as-in-beer fonts, including lots of rough/distressed ones
<Madpilot> dafont even has an entire font category called "Typewriter": http://www.dafont.com/theme.php?cat=113
<Joe_CoT> yeah, i see. i'll check it out
<Joe_CoT> hmmm
<Joe_CoT> how do i either render the text, or embed the font?
<Madpilot> Joe_CoT, select the text, then go Path -> Object To Path
<Joe_CoT> yes, just found that :) thanks
<Madpilot> only do that when you're SURE it's all proofread, because once that's done, it's not text anymore
<Madpilot> and you can't convert path back to text
<Joe_CoT> yeah
<Joe_CoT> i'm just gonna hide the original text in a layer for now, till we decide on something
<Madpilot> that works.
<Joe_CoT> alright, uploaded the new ones. now it's pretty, but I still need wittier text :D
<Joe_CoT> also, pathing text really seems to add to the file size
<Madpilot> it does, text = complex outlines 
<Madpilot> Joe_CoT, too much text in the 'The Ubuntu New Jersey Team is..." section
<Joe_CoT> yeah. just dunno what to make it. I put that there as a placeholder, mostly, because the text sucks
<Madpilot> plunder freely. "The Ubuntu New Jersey Team Needs YOU!" 
<Joe_CoT> haha. I was thinking along those lines
<Madpilot> hey, if it worked for the US Army, it'll work for anyone.
<Madpilot> Besides, the early 20th C was a cool time for all sorts of design, it's well worth plundering! :)
<Joe_CoT> alright, how bout now? (only changed the svg)
<Madpilot> Joe_CoT, nice
<Joe_CoT> cool (asked my DART major girlfriend a few times before I asked you again :D )
<Madpilot> DART?
<Joe_CoT> Digital Art
<Madpilot> cool - I'm strictly a self-taught design freak ;)
<Joe_CoT> ah
<Joe_CoT> yeah, this was basically my first foray into inkscape. Seems pretty awesome.
<Madpilot> Inkscape rocks. There's a good mailing list, too - and #inkscape here on Freenode is useful
<jenda> Madpilot: just had a look at themposters. Looking good, thx for the copyright thing.
<jenda> Do you think you could have a look if the smudges could be changed a bit? I'd feel more comfortable ordering 100 pieces if they were :)
<Madpilot> jenda, sure. If this snow continues I might have lots of time this week (assuming the power doesn't go out, of course...)
<jenda> aww
* jenda has nostalgic memories of Canada
<jenda> Can you take a picture? :)
<Madpilot> my camera still shoots film, not digital, but I could ;)
<jenda> Nah, leave it ;)
<jenda> The winter I spent in Canada didn't have much snow. 
<jenda> I felt betrayed ;)
<Madpilot> this part of Canada hardly ever gets snow, that's why only 6-10 inches of the stuff has f'd up the city so bad
<jenda> Which part is it?
<jenda> I lived in Fredericton.
<Madpilot> Victoria
<jenda> cool
<jenda> I guess we've had 10 inches during the winter too.
<jenda> I was imagining one of those Canadian snow-ins with 6 feet of snow, rather :)
<Madpilot> meh. We had one of those (~1m of snow in 30hrs or so) back in 1996 - that was memorable!
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> I saw a picture of the house I lived in during one of those.
<jenda> It must've been 6, maybe 10 feet. You could barely see the house :)
<jenda> aaanyway... the marketing mailing list just got an offer for Viagra and Cialis, did any of you order that? Next time please do so privately, not on the mailing list.
<Burgundavia> Madpilot: see planet ubuntu
<Madpilot> Burgundavia, got your asbestos undergarments handy?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> I imagine dholbach and seb128 will be amongst the first after me
<Madpilot> are they in favour of accelX as well?
<Burgundavia> no, but they hate it when I raise issues like this, in the manner of confrontation like I just did
<Madpilot> Thou Shalt Not Shit-Disturb
<Burgundavia> indeed
<Burgundavia> and hug and be merry
<Madpilot> anyway, I need sleep. How did it get to be almost 0100 so fast, anyway?
<KenSentMe> Burgundavia: amen on your blog post at planet ubuntu
<KenSentMe> Good points
<jenda_> did I miss anything?
* jenda_ waves at jenda
<KenSentMe> the post about multimedia codecs on planet ubuntu
<jenda_> dayum... I totally timed out there...
<jenda_> elkbuntu: did you say anything?
<elkbuntu> nope
<jenda_> said, or received?
<elkbuntu> hmm?
<jenda_> said nothing, or received nothing yet, elkbuntu{
<elkbuntu> um... im saying things when you prompt me jenda, what is the problem?
<jenda_> I was enquiring if you received a package yet, but didn't realise you're busy. sry
<elkbuntu> oh.. package. no, not today. it's not that im busy, rather sleepy and confused at how you were asking
<jenda_> ok :)
<jenda_> Disregard me, I can be confusing during sociology class...
<elkbuntu> how unsociable of you :
<jenda_> 
<YoussefAssad> I might be a bit dense, but I can't quite tell if Corey's post on planet is pro or anti blobs
<jenda_> I don't have the impression it's either.
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, anti.
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: oh, okay. Congrues with my opinion then
<davehat> YoussefAssad: isn't it both?
<jenda_> But it obviously states the nonsense of accepting some blobs for bling and not taking other, more important ones.
<YoussefAssad> davehat: I can see I'm not the only confused soul.
<davehat> that covers all interpretations then :)
<davehat> apart from pro
<YoussefAssad> jenda_: Yes, but I can see that sort of opinion prevaling in the current ubuntu atmosphere mind ye
<elkbuntu> davehat, the way i understand it, he's saying 'it's bad, but you might as well go all the way if you're going to go part of it'
<elkbuntu> the good man can correct me if i've missed the point
<YoussefAssad> Or maybe corey's flipflopping; preparations for a run for congress, taking the solid center and refusing to commit to a platform
* jenda_ prods the good man... Burgundavia? :)
<jenda_> YoussefAssad: 
<elkbuntu> he's likely snoring his little canadian head off right now
<jenda_> most probably.
<YoussefAssad> jenda_: I'm just being silly
<jenda_> I know :)
<davehat> elkbuntu: actually, I think that's how I read it
<poningru> what are we talking about?
<elkbuntu> my personal view: i dont mind forcing blobs to make things functional. i do mind forcing not only blobs, but bling as well.
<elkbuntu> i found compiz/beryl to be a pain to have enabled all the time
<poningru> hehe
<poningru> true that
<davehat> elkubuntu: its also a nightmare to install. I reckon a large number of people must give up before they get it installed - and they're the people who actually wanted it in the first place. (Sorry, I realise this has been re-hashed ad nauseam and this ain't the channel for it either).
<elkbuntu> hehe, im off to bed, g'nite
<YoussefAssad> I think it needs to be discussed, _especially_ by the marketing folk
<elkbuntu> agreed,  and afformentioned action
<poningru> nn
<poningru> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UMtyvHCzvU
<poningru> jenda: dude whats the link to the lists thing?
<dotwaffle> jenda: 25 shiny dollars (well, whatever that is in GBP converted to Czech Moolah) on it's way to you ;)
<poningru> mmmm carne asada
<poningru> a burrito is not a sandwich!!!
<lotusleaf> poningru: indeed! :)
<poningru> :D
<lotusleaf> however, there's the carne asada torte or however you spell it
<poningru> btw our software freedom day documentary
<poningru> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UMtyvHCzvU
<lotusleaf> <- dial up :P
<jenda> dotwaffle: w00t
<jenda> dotwaffle: only drawback: I just sent a shipment, so your's'll go on monday.
<dotwaffle> That's no problem ;)
* jenda wonders what poningru meant above by "the lists thing?"
<somerville32> m
<stelt> I have some ideas for the spreading of free-er computing in general (in which Ubuntu is an important ingredient), for which i bought freedomdrive.org and homecomputerhelp.org, and as hosting is not in place yet i have previews at http://steltenpower.com/homecomputerhelp.org and http://steltenpower.com/freedomdrive.org  Want to hook into this to spread Ubuntu?
<somerville32> stelt: Feel free to bring it up on the mailing list :) I'm sure people would love to discuss it.
* stelt goes looking for it
<somerville32> http://lists.ubuntu.com
<jenda> so...
<atoponce> :)
<jenda> the project was too huge to complete, so I chose an alternative aproach.
<atoponce> not sure if #dvorak wanted to see all that or not. :)
<jenda> (which I could do while studying, too)
<atoponce> yeah. looking over the wiki, it's fairly long
<atoponce> but i can see how it covers a lot of ground
<atoponce> i'm definitely interested. what can i do to help with SpreadUbuntu?  where to begin?
<tonyyarusso> Will the SpreadUbuntu site be online by Feisty release?
<tsmithe> hopefully
<tsmithe> depends what you want in the site
<atoponce> is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/SpreadUbuntu current?
<jenda> tonyyarusso: could even be :)
<jenda> but not in it's entirety
<jenda> atoponce: not really.
<jenda> as I was saying...
<jenda> I decided to focus on the DIY section of the project for now, atoponce.
<atoponce> what is needed for DIY?
<atoponce> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing ?
<jenda> That's one thing.
<jenda> I didn't yet have time to organise it well, because I kindof got used to the state that there's no one to help with it ;)
<jenda> and suddenly some people started to, quite intensively :)
<jenda> I'll pastebin one roadmap I've charted...
<atoponce> cool
<atoponce> ahh cool. the ubuntu stand.  that came from our loco team.  mike moore i believe created it.
<atoponce> i had forgotten about that
<jenda> I think so too :)
<jenda> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/34642/
<jenda> here
<jenda> keep in mind it's about two weeks old...
<atoponce> ok
<jenda> ...and replace "I will" with "needs to be done" :)
* atoponce reads
* tsmithe beat atoponce 
* atoponce orders a dr pepper for tsmithe 
* tsmithe spits out the dr pepper
<tsmithe> urgh
<atoponce> jenda: so, if i have the idea, you want to spread the word about people making their own ubuntu "stuff" and centralize it into one location?
<atoponce> tsmithe: not a dp drinker eh? you know, it's the nectar of the gods... :)
<jenda> atoponce: that's only step one.
<jenda> atoponce: step two is creating a centralised database for Marketing Howtos.
<jenda> I'm _really_ looking forward to that.
<jenda> It should contain all the ideas the community came up with for local marketing campaigns.
<atoponce> i see. help others get ideas about how to SU in their locale
<jenda> From asking your retailer to give out CDs with sales to creating a computer room at the local school.
<atoponce> yeah. ok.
<stelt> OK, sent it to the list
<stelt> OK, sent it to the list (this time not sabotaged by a broken connection)
<jenda> stelt: are you arriba at steltenpower dot com?
<stelt> jenda, yes, i am. sent it off wrong e-mail adress. My e-mail connection was on/off/on/off  etc.
<jenda> that's ok
<jenda> I'll let it through, but if you want to keep using this address, subscribe it to da list.
<jenda> or... nevermind, I'll just set it on accept.
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-29
* rjian good morning people
<atoponce> rjian: evening
<elkbuntu> jenda, guess what im holding in my hands :)
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: Squid!
* atoponce guesses it's a puppy
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: Results of the survey!
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, posters
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, im still v.slowly working through the surveys... very very slowly
<tonyyarusso> hehe
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you should talk with mdz about merging the ubuntu counter with the hwdb
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+o Burgundavia]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-o Burgundavia]  by Burgundavia
<YoussefAssad> surveys; cool. How much data, out of curiosity?
<tonyyarusso> YoussefAssad: Oodles
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, thousands of submissions
<YoussefAssad> format?
<YoussefAssad> Paper? Or something which lends itelf better to a little awking and csv-in-spreadsheet'ing?
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, stored in mysql, yes. but it's a matter of having the time to do it
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: any chance a mysql dump or some comparably transparent format can be dumped anywhere?
* YoussefAssad likes data
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, once i've had my fun
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu.fun.__doc__
<YoussefAssad> ?
<rjian> Ping me 
<Burgundavia> ping rjian
<rjian> hello corey
* rjian is away (rjian is on OFFLINE)
<jenda> elkbuntu: yay :)
<elkbuntu> jenda, :D
<jenda> elkbuntu: Ever heard of Yuri Kozlov?
<jenda> He was mentioned in the UWN a few times along with the Google SoC.
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: do you know when us mortals will see the survey data, approximately?
<elkbuntu> jenda, the name sounds sorta familiar, but it's easy to get confused
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, no
<jenda> Anyway... this poor soul would like to buy 30 Kubuntu stickers... but can only get 23!!! :( You know who's fault it is ;)
<elkbuntu> hehehe, i'll send the remaining 7 his way if he likes
<YoussefAssad> So, you are proceeding slowly, you have no plans for releasing survey data, and you are not interested in exploring the capabilities or data analysis experience of people on the team. Have I got it right?
<jenda> elkbuntu: BTW, I was forced to make a little notice for the customs office on the package this time. I hope they don't make you pay anything.
* jenda marked all the packages 'presents'... dunno if that's considered tax evasion :)
<YoussefAssad> jenda: they don't generate income, so that should be fine. Tax law from that perspective tends to be relatively uniform
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, your tone in that sentence reeks of entitlement and i do not appreciate it.
<jenda> please do stay friendly, you two :)
<jenda> Keep the ubuntu spirit.
<jenda> YoussefAssad: well, they do generate income, just not for me.
<jenda> and even, they do generate income for me too - 7.4 US per poster :)
<YoussefAssad> jenda: True, but that income is so far downstream and so intangible (in the sense that it is difficult to quantify, as cost savings tend to be) that, practically, you're still fine
<YoussefAssad> oh. 
<YoussefAssad> That might be diffeent, jenda 
<jenda> Not really. Noone can prove that the payments and the posters are related.
<jenda> In fact, I seriously doubt any government even notices the payments, since the largest of them is $25
<jenda> And the way I see it:
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: Is the data going to be published along with the nalysis?
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, yes
<YoussefAssad> excuse typos, fingers again faster than ssh can echo the characters back at me
<jenda> Imagine a bunch of friends buying a box of posters together. They go to the printer, and each of them forks up their share of the price, and give it to one of them, who hands it over to the vendor.
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: I look forward to poking holes in it. I cut my data analysis teeth on a 350 million dollar portfolio
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: I would be grateful if you could give me an indication when this happens to save me having to check periodically.
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, i cannot tell you something i myself do not know
<jenda> The only difference from what I do is that I pay the sum first, and gather the contributions from the 'friends' later.
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: Then I would be grateful if we could be transparent about why the data isn't published pending analysis
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad,  i have been
<jenda> You can't consider such contributions income ;)
<YoussefAssad> jenda: In any case, a lot of tax codes will institutionally ignore revenue below a certain level. 
<jenda> Definitely.
<jenda> I think $31.30 fits that description well.
<jenda> (spread over several months too)
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, however, i am not going to advertise the fact, as it only draws conversations like the current one which apart from having no value in the process, take up my time
<YoussefAssad> Reminds me of a situation I was in last week
<YoussefAssad> I was at a presentation where a non-profit claimed revenue of USD 75K/day on artisanal products. Which was bloody impressive until I asked the nice lady how many days thatwas a year
<YoussefAssad> 3, turns out
<YoussefAssad> in other words, money makes no sense if not contrasted with time. And jenda, I doubt your fiscal year would raise any eyebrows at 31 dollars per batch :)
<jenda> Yep :)
<jenda> If it did, I could make an invoice, but I'd be invoicing myself :)
<YoussefAssad> jenda: Invoicing yourself is a great first step to money laundering. :)
<YoussefAssad> Great new marketing slogsn: Ubuntu, the distro with the little marketing sub-channels through which dollars may be rinsed while bringing technology to the masses!
* jenda is registered with the Czech goverment financial leviathan for: 'marketing and advertisement' and 'management and maintenance of buildings'
<YoussefAssad> heh
<jenda> So I _could_ invoice myself for marketing services :-D
<jenda> I could invoice Ubuntu, I guess, since I consider the money generated to be Ubuntu's in a broad sense.
<jenda> But I'd be the one signing the invoice for Ubuntu anyway :-D
<jenda> oh well, tough stuff :)
<jenda> I'll just pretend nothing's happening.
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: I'm very sorry you feel antagonized. You cam blame this: 08:54 < elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, once i've had my fun    response to my query regarding when you will make the data available.
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: The sense of entitlement, I don't know... I guess it stems from me being used to open communities not just open code.
<elkbuntu> YoussefAssad, a) your one of dozens who've asked. b) this is no different to you demanding a programmer make his/her program final when it's still in beta
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: Again, you're sitting on the data so it's your baby, fully acknowledged. I'm sure your analysis will contribute positively.
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: Friendly advice, if you'll have it: when people show interest, find out first what they can do before brushing them off. Little nugget of experience (and a mistake I made when younger)
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: Of course, you're volunteering, and so am I (on different levels). So, no hard feelings. Apologies if I offended you. I'd do it very differently than you, but it isn't my call.
<YoussefAssad> elkbuntu: from the perspective that you're a volunteer, thanks in advance for the work (which I know isn't easy; I spent 2 years a director of marketing intel! Hell on earth).
<YoussefAssad> Now, more generally.
<YoussefAssad> I suppose there's a chance I'm just getting long in the tooth, but I don't think this team is for me. You guys are doing great work, I'd do it differently on many levels, but this isn't my gig (and Lord knows I've got enough of those; www.mifos.org and eglug.org for the curious).
<YoussefAssad> So, good luck with the team! 
<willvdl> YoussefAssad, just out of interest, have you worked on any open projects before?
<elkbuntu> ...
<elkbuntu> he can give it out...
<willvdl> I think I know who he is
<elkbuntu> willvdl, hmm?
<willvdl> Grameen is a massive micro-lending org
<elkbuntu> willvdl, so who was *that*?
<willvdl> grameen consultant
<elkbuntu> ah, i was interpreting you as though you knew him more specifically
<willvdl> no, indirectly
<elkbuntu> regardless. he just made it awful hard to focus on writing up my session for tomorrow and saturday
<willvdl> openweek session?
<elkbuntu> yeah
<willvdl> bummer it's on saturday. would like to attend
<elkbuntu> it'll be the same tomorrow
<willvdl> oh, missed that on the calendar
<elkbuntu> now you can be happy :)
* jenda just spent an hour making an .ods which would automatically fill in customs forms for dem posters.
<cbx33> dudes
<danbuchWork> ...so about them SpreadUbuntu project, yes?
<jenda> danbuch929: oh yes, yes :)
<danbuchWork> Current Status:
<danbuchWork> working with Cheetah template part of Skeletonz
<danbuchWork> there are a TON of plugins available (wiki, RSS, etc)
<danbuchWork> ...so what I'm really needing to do now is get the (ahem) skeleton in place
<danbuchWork> should I still be following the framework diagrammed by Jenda?
<jenda> danbuch929: the one on /SpreadUbuntu
<jenda> ?
<danbuchWork> yes
<jenda> no.
<danbuchWork> :-D  okay...
<jenda> We will need a new one.
<jenda> It has to be more flexible, as it will start with only a few of the points SU had...
<danbuchWork> gotcha - should I take a whack at this as well (why not?)
<danbuchWork> yes
<jenda> ...but will (hopefully) keep growing to something similar in the end.
<danbuchWork> right-y o ...   I'm reminded why I was so gung-ho about a CMS :-)
<danbuchWork> I've already told you, Jenda, but for the sake of log-readers, we've got the support of Skeletonz' creator in this endeavor - he's a big Ubuntu fan
<jenda> oh yes, that's great newz :)
<jenda> Roadmap'd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/DIYWebsite
<danbuchWork> Thanks, Jenda!
* jenda thanks ;)
<jenda> I will now edit the site content section.
<danbuchWork> excellent - for my part I should get back to doing my day job :-D ...   I'll work more tomorrow morning on the Skeletonz stuff, taking into consideration any information you put on the wiki page
<jenda> content section edited, danbuchWork
<jenda> If your job allows you, do you think my message to the ML is still necessary?
* danbuchWork wonders...   message to the ML?
<jenda> you quoted it on the wiki
<jenda> PLanning and discussion section.
<danbuchWork> AH!  be rid of it, if you so choose :-D
* jenda tries hard to concentrate on reading it, to find if there's anything non-redundant :)
<jenda> there, done.
<jenda> I took what was worth it and surgically implanted into the roadmap.
<danbuchWork> much prettier now :-D  Thanks again for your guidance, Jenda!  You've got diplomacy in your blood, for sure
* danbuchWork wonders what that really means
<jenda> muhehe
<jenda> My dad was the Deputy chief of Mission in Washington DC for three years - could be that ;)
* jenda might've already mentioned that, come to think of it.
<jenda> thanx to you, danbuch929, for prodding it to life again :)
<danbuchWork> 'twas my thought exactly
<danbuchWork> the former, that is
<danbuchWork> I'm happy to jump in!
<jenda> 
* jenda runs off
<jenda> enjoy your job ;)
* danbuchWork resumes monotany
<danbuchWork> monotony? ... sorry 'bout the chatter
<jenda> somerville32: watch your inbox ;)
<somerville32> ... Whys? :P
* jenda won't tell
<jenda> surprise ;)
<somerville32> Good surprise or bad surprise? <g>
<jenda> Dunno.
<jenda> Would spoil half the surprise if I told you, no? ):
<jenda> *:)
<somerville32> haha
<somerville32> <g>
* somerville32 twiddles his thumbs.
<jenda> umm...
<jenda> I meant the real inbox ;)
<somerville32> Oh!!
<somerville32> My mailbox <g>
<somerville32> Am I suppose to get it today?
<somerville32> haha
<jenda> not really, but soon :)
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> So, how do they send 10 posters to me?
<somerville32> Do they try to stick it in the mailbox?
<somerville32> Do I have to go pick it up?
<jenda> somerville32: I believe they'll stick it in the inbox.
<jenda> It's a fairly tight roll.
* tsmithe had a nice surprise when his came
<somerville32> Cool :)
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-11-30
<somerville32> I dunno why more people aren't involved in ubuntu-marketing
<somerville32> It has to be the most fun
* somerville32 grins.
<Burgwork> it is fun
<Burgwork> now work on that Feisty doc
<poningru> Burgwork: quick question is this updated? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
<Burgwork> it needs to be
<somerville32> What Feisty doc?
<Burgwork> LookingForwardAtFeisty
<somerville32> I should subscribe to the ml, shouldn't I? :] 
<Burgwork> yes, you should
<somerville32> Alrighty. Be there in a second. :] 
<lotusleaf> Burgwork: is the marketing ML tied into NNTP?
<Burgwork> no
<lotusleaf> darn
<lotusleaf> could it be?
<lotusleaf> like some of the others for gmane?
<lotusleaf> !newsgrou[
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about newsgrou[ - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
<lotusleaf> !newsgroup
<ubotu> There are Ubuntu newsgroups via NNTP at news.gmane.org
<lotusleaf> !newsgroups
<Burgwork> yep, sure
<lotusleaf> Burgwork: that would be awesome
<Burgwork> you have the power
<somerville32> Doh. I'm all alone
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgwork: how does the doc go?
<Burgwork> ignored it last night, but going to work on it tonight
<Admiral_Chicago> the looking foward to feisty
<Admiral_Chicago> can i see what you have so far?
<jenda> Hello marketeers :)
<jenda> I'm on my way to bed, but just in case anyone was interested:
<Admiral_Chicago> we're not :P
<jenda> 404 posters ordered (sold/preordered)
<Admiral_Chicago> posters not found?
<jenda> generated $81 as a donation to the ubuntuforums (in exchange for help in promoting them)
<jenda> yep :)
<jenda> I laughed out loud when I saw the number :)
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: link to the posters sale?
<jenda> ... and $190 for marketing purposes.
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=poster
<Admiral_Chicago> thanks
<jenda> The first use of the above cash will be a free poster donated to the winner of tomorrows quiz in #ubuntu-trivia 
<somerville32> 10 Ubuntu Highway Posters - $25.00/US
<somerville32> I thought it was a dollar per poster
<somerville32> + $5 shipping
<jenda> That's what it says... but that's including a $8.72 donation to the forums, and a $1.28 paypal fee.
<jenda> So, somerville32 if you add those up with $10 for posters and $5 shipping... $25 :)
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: if you want to buy them, the donation to the forums is not mandatory - so 10 posters would be $15
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: i'll have to consider them, i'm a broke college student so I'm not sure :\
<jenda> Of course :)
<jenda> I'm a broke college student too.
<jenda> (with $190 to spend on Marketing Ubuntu... muhehehe)
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: i may order some for MOSS
<Admiral_Chicago> (my open source society at college)
<jenda> my open source society = MOSS :-D
<Admiral_Chicago> well Monmouth (as in Monmouth College)
<Admiral_Chicago> but i'll keep that in mind
<Admiral_Chicago> we did a really succesful talk on Ubuntu recently, and I got some more convertors...
<jenda> cool :)
<jenda> Anyway, you can get any number x of posters (preferably x>4) for $(5+x)
<jenda> the $5 is the shipping.
<Admiral_Chicago> well i'd be donating to the forums and all as well but I'll see
<Admiral_Chicago> how long will they be on sale?
<jenda> 96 left
<jenda> I can reserve some, if you want.
<jenda> I can even send them straight away if you promise you'll pay up :)
<jenda> I don't insist on payment in advance.
<Admiral_Chicago> no sell them, i'll buy some as soon as I have the funds
<jenda> OK
<jenda> My guess is that I'll run out in two weeks.
<Admiral_Chicago> that's good, if i  don't get posters, i'll get a tshirt
<jenda> hehe :)
<Admiral_Chicago> what do the designs looking like?
<Admiral_Chicago> is brown going to happen?
<jenda> Indeed - it's rather nice that about 1/3 of the expenses will be covered by the posters already :)
<jenda> I dunno...
* jenda checks poll
<jenda> I'm inclined towards black, because it would allow more choice of shirts.
<lotusleaf> yes, black is good
<jenda> and it's neutral - the brown they offer looks a bit too pink to me :)
<Admiral_Chicago> i really like how brown looks, but black and white is also pretty sweet
<jenda> hmm 41:52
<jenda> black:brown
<Admiral_Chicago> really
<jenda> that's beginning to be significant.
<Admiral_Chicago> why do you say black allows for more choices
<jenda> I'll have to look around for other suppliers.
<jenda> because this supplier only has 2 types of shirts in 'sandy' color as they call it.
<jenda> No v-neck, no girl-cut, no range of quality to choose from.
<Admiral_Chicago> Ah i see
<Admiral_Chicago> where is teh marketing page on forums?
<Admiral_Chicago> i can't find it
<jenda> There is none.
<jenda> AFAIK
<lotusleaf> which is probably a good thing
<jenda> Yes.
<jenda> It's a decision we made as a team some months ago.
<jenda> at the first IRC meeting :)
<lotusleaf> awesome
* rjian wen will be the meeting for this channel?
<rjian> hehe
<jenda> mm... meeting...
<jenda> I have some issues for a meeting... but I need a bit of time just thinking before I'm ready to discuss them at a meeting.
* rjian ive just miss the meeting on Ubuntu-ph :(
<jenda> If the other projects come up with stuff to discuss at a meeting, I'll gladly call one :)
<Admiral_Chicago> i think there is a LoCo meeting
* jenda is looking forward to the next Marketing meeting :)
<jenda> yes
<Admiral_Chicago> i won't be able to go tomorrow
<jenda> but that's not marketing ;)
<jenda> (it's related, though, of course)
<lotusleaf> are there plans to beef up the media relations section of marketing with more ppl?
* rjian anyone will attend the ASEAN SOURCE 2?
<jenda> lotusleaf: I know poningru and matthewrevell were interested in that.
<jenda> rjian: whadda?
<jenda> 
<lotusleaf> cool, that's something I'd like to look into as well
<rjian> jenda: what?
<jenda> lotusleaf: talk to poningru...
<jenda> ...and get something out there! :)
<jenda> rjian: what is that?
<lotusleaf> jenda: roger that, thx =)
<jenda> 
<poningru> what?
<jenda> media relations project?
<rjian> jenda: ah ok the IOSN will host the ASIA SOURCE 2 will be on Indonesia Jakarta..
<jenda> so...
<jenda> is it an OSS conference?
<rjian> jenda: yeah open source software conference..
<jenda> ok
<jenda> It's a little out of hand for me :)
* rjian Asia Source II will provide participants with a range of practical and hands-on sessions aimed at increasing the use of Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) amonst the NGO and SME in the region.
<rjian> jenda: they extend the application in Dec. 2 because they lack of Female attending the conference..
<jenda> Can't help there :)
* jenda is male
<lotusleaf> lol
<rjian> hehe
<poningru> sweet
<poningru> lotusleaf: we are trying to do that
<poningru> talked to jono re that spec
<poningru> I dont know if you saw the spec or not
* rjian anyone here the storyt that THAI ICT Minister has negative view on open source?
<poningru> jono approved it
<poningru> we are gonna go ahead with it for feisty
<lotusleaf> poningru: no, I didn't
<poningru> hold on
<lotusleaf> poningru: oh, that's what you were talking about the other day, that was related?
<lotusleaf> that's what I get for not paying attention ;D
<poningru> hehe
<Burgwork> rjian: we saw that
<Burgwork> disappointing
<lotusleaf> rjian: money buys a lot there
<rjian> Burgwork" yeah :(
<lotusleaf> rjian: I won't say any more =)
<Burgwork> lotusleaf: it isn't money
<poningru> you can probably get elkbuntu to go
* rjian very disappointing :(
<poningru> she is kinda in asia
<Burgwork> it is conservatism due to the new military gov
<Burgwork> rjian: disappointed
<rjian> ops.. 
<rjian> elkbuntu: is from asia?
<poningru> rjian: I was jk
<lotusleaf> Burgwork: true, I dind't want to raise that discussion because of politics, but wouldn't you speculate they've had "other" offers?
<poningru> she is from aus
<lotusleaf> didn't*
<Burgwork> lotusleaf: no, I don't think so
<lotusleaf> Burgwork: really?
<poningru> yeah that guy just seems that ... uninformed
<rjian> poningru: u from ASIA?
<Burgwork> lotusleaf: it is possible, but I suspect more that it is more nationalism
<lotusleaf> poningru: you gonna be here tomorrow? I'd like to discuss the media relations aspect of marketing further, but I'm growing sleepy O_o
<poningru> lotusleaf: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/loco-press-releases
<poningru> yes
<poningru> will be here
<poningru> rjian: from india
<poningru> but now in the US
<rjian> poningru: ah ok.. ur like a tourist heheh
<lotusleaf> poningru: k thx =)
<lotusleaf> poningru: && thx for linky ;)
* rjian is away (rjian is on OFFLINE)
<tonyyarusso> Burgwork: Have you gotten a handle on this Turkish Kurd thing, and are we mentioning it in UWN?
<somerville32> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9005462
<poningru> tonyyarusso: the what?
<tonyyarusso> poningru: Massive mailing list thread
<poningru> oh
<tonyyarusso> I'm still reading and trying to figure it out, put apparently it involves the Turkish government being upset because Linux (possibly Ubuntu in particular, but there's some confusion) is available in Kurdish, and they aren't fond of giving the Kurds the right to use their language.
<poningru> which mailing list btw
<poningru> oh sounding
<poningru> hmm
<tonyyarusso> sounder and devel, actually
<tonyyarusso> Not sure how it got on devel, but it did, and that's where the input from Mark comes from.
<tonyyarusso> Which is basically "Whoa, hold on folks, and talk to Jono."
<tonyyarusso> http://www.kurdishinfo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5060
<tonyyarusso> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Kurdish_operating_system_under_investigation_by_Turkish_attorney_general
<poningru> hmm
* rjian is away (rjian is on OFFLINE)
<elkbuntu> what about me? no im not from asia, but aus is pretty close ;)
<poningru> right
<Madpilot> jenda, the posters arrived today, it'll probably be Sunday before I pick them up, though
<elkbuntu> Madpilot, http://meldra.no-ip.info/ubuntuhighway.jpg
<Madpilot> elkbuntu, cool!
<Madpilot> I'm going to keep one or two, give a couple away, and give the rest to the local LUG for doorprize swag
<elkbuntu> im keeping one or two, hanging one or two up locally, taking the rest to LCA
<somerville32> I'm going to use the 10 that I baught to promote Ubuntu all through Fredericton, NB :)
<somerville32> Anyone want to work on "LookingFowardToFeisty" with me?
<Burgundavia> playing with bugs tonight
<somerville32> Doesn't the cd come out later today?
<dotwaffle> Burgundavia: It appears you made DL.TV ;)
<poningru> he did?
<poningru> link?
<dotwaffle> Latest episode on dl.tv - he gets a mention on the OpenSuSE affair ;)
<dotwaffle> Go go Patrick Norton for researching the subject ;)
<somerville32> :] 
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: how goes the looking ahead to Feisty?
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: spent the evening poking at compiz bugs
<Burgundavia> dotwaffle: geez, yet another place that mentions me
<Admiral_Chicago> ah well i have a paper
<Admiral_Chicago> maybe msg me tomorrow and i'll take another stab at it
<Burgundavia> will do
<Burgundavia> http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/11/the_open_source_1.html
<Burgundavia> see item 3
<Admiral_Chicago> i saw that recently
<nixternal> ooh, the neuros in on there
<nixternal> Admiral_Chicago: neuros is a chicago company..we did some osd hacking with them at a chiglug event
<Admiral_Chicago> osd?
<nixternal> on screen display
<Admiral_Chicago> i thought so, just checking
<Admiral_Chicago> i want to go to a chiclug event, but i'm here...
<Burgundavia> they run elisa, mythtv or their own stuff?
<nixternal> there will be some when you come back...we will meet up and go
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: i think i saw them in a mag i was reading
<Admiral_Chicago> btw, i'm going to set a date for a meeting, send an email
<Admiral_Chicago> we can change it based on the feedback
<nixternal> we need a location yet
<nixternal> if we do the city..only 4 people will show up
<Burgundavia> befriend a cafe and have them sell linux
<Admiral_Chicago> i like the idea of a library
<Burgundavia> then make it your handout spot
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: Neuros OSD is on sale at thinkgeek
<Admiral_Chicago> i saw it today in the catalogue i got
<nixternal> ahh
<nixternal> Burgundavia: i wish we had some cool cafes in chicago
<nixternal> starbucks runs them out
<Burgundavia> yep
<nixternal> although, we got a killer hackspot though...an old flower shop..it is a flower shop in the front, and a hacking lab in the back
<Admiral_Chicago> nixternal: btw, next time you are in Galesburg (i think you said you come sometimes) there is a cool cafe called Innkeeper's
<Burgundavia> oh, crap, herd 1 tomorrow
<nixternal> ya Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> forgot all abou tit
<Burgundavia> however, not much has changed yet
<nixternal> hey, get the mind out of the gutter
<Burgundavia> sorry, mine never leaves
<nixternal> Burgundavia: i started the kubuntu release notes...lost for words, or nothing to add..one of the two
<Burgundavia> saw that, why I rememberd
<nixternal> hehe
<Admiral_Chicago> my mind out the gutter? man that cafe rocks
<nixternal> i was struggeling to get information
<nixternal> it seems all of the devs are on vacation
<Burgundavia> yep
<nixternal> im going on vacation this weekend as long as we don't get a foot of snow like they are calling for tomorrow
<Burgundavia> this is generally the vacation week
<Burgundavia> we got snow here in Victoria
<Burgundavia> completely odd
<Admiral_Chicago> "Easy to build, MAKE Open Source MP3 player kit. Audio quality is as good as an iPod, can access 65,000 tracks, play MP3s as well as 48khz WAV files, interface it with everything from simple button pushing to parallel ports to very powerful serial modes."
<Admiral_Chicago> mp3 is a restrictive format, wth
<nixternal> #neuros is where tehy hang out on freenode i believe as well
<nixternal> the owner sits in there hacking all of the time..cool guy
<Admiral_Chicago> it rained ridiculously today
<nixternal> same here..it poored all day long
<nixternal> arg...2am already..this is nuts
<Admiral_Chicago> yea and i'm getting nowhere with this paper
* poningru just sat through an entire episode of mind numbingly stupid dl.tv
<poningru> to get to coreys part
<poningru> ofourse didnt happen
* poningru gets violent on dotwaffle 
<nixternal> jsjs
<nixternal> doh
<nixternal> haha
<nixternal> poor patrick norton
<poningru> that is the dumbest tech show ever
<poningru> thats made for grandparents
<nixternal> haha ya
<nixternal> it is the rebirth of the screensavers pretty much
<Admiral_Chicago> synaptic is pretty cool
<Burgundavia> gnome-app-install is better
<Admiral_Chicago> i was able to lock a program, aptitude is such a beast
* rjian is away (rjian is on OFFLINE)
<poningru> whatever dude portage > *
* poningru ducks
<MenZa> jenda: ping
<jenda> MenZa: pong
<jenda> quickly, though :)
<MenZa> :D
<jenda> I'm on my way out.
<MenZa> query?
<jenda> sure
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [+o elkbuntu]  by ChanServ
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-s]  by elkbuntu
* mode/#ubuntu-marketing [-o elkbuntu]  by elkbuntu
<atoponce> jenda: ping
<tsmithe> he's never around... just has his proxy sitting here
<tsmithe> (like i do - thank's for the idea jenda!)
<Admiral_Chicago> try again later (about 5-6 hours)
<tsmithe> five ours from now would be one o'clock in prague
<tsmithe> *hours
<Admiral_Chicago> well i'm not sure his time, i usually talk to him in the evening
<atoponce> tsmithe: well, i'm just wondering what i should be doing. i joined the team on launchpad, and really want to help, i just need some direction
<tsmithe> ah...
<tsmithe> it comes in drips and drabs
<tsmithe> the main effort is to promote ubuntu
<tsmithe> buy posters off jenda, and put them up around the place
<tsmithe> hand out cds
<atoponce> hmmm
<tsmithe> that little ever-flowing undercurrent of free rebellion is always important
<tsmithe> there should be more work to do with spreadubuntu, hopefully
<tsmithe> hang on...
<tsmithe> you can check out the bzr branch if you so wish, but that's not as up to date as diy.devubuntu.com
<tsmithe> https://code.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-marketing/+branch/spreadubuntu/spreadubuntu
<atoponce> ok. so what can i do to help? it looks like diy needs some improvement
<tsmithe> we need to persuade jenda to keep that page in sync with bzr
<tsmithe> that way we can all work on it
<tsmithe> another thing you can do is think
<tsmithe> we are always in need of new ideas
<tsmithe> t-shirts are in the process of being done, posters have been, as have stickers and cds
* tsmithe won't be doing t-shirts; 5.50 you must be joking!
<atoponce> $5.50 isn't bad at all for a shirt
<atoponce> that's cheap, i think. you could sell them for more
<tsmithe> not $5.50
<tsmithe> 5.50
<tsmithe> that's GBP
<tsmithe> 1 =~ $1.8
* tsmithe would need to make more profit than that
<tsmithe> plus, jenda's are only costing $6 per piece. probs cos he's in prague
<atoponce> $10.82. still, i'd pay $15
<tsmithe> that's only ~2 profit each
<tsmithe> say i sold all 100
<tsmithe> i'd make 200
<tsmithe> not too bad
<tsmithe> but, i don't have the 550 cash for the investment ;)
<atoponce> ahh, yeah. that's the hiccup right there
<tsmithe> indeed
<tsmithe> so, considering i won't have that kinda money till later next year, i'll be pipped to the post with that project
<tsmithe> but, as i said, thinking is all-important
<atoponce> hmmm. so is the marketing team responsible for all the stuff you can purchase on cafepress, and other sites, or is that separate?
<Burgwork> not currently, although we should do that
<tsmithe> i dont think so
<tsmithe> damn i'm late
<atoponce> so, in your own words, what's the "purpose" of the marketing team? i'm failing to see exactly what our roll is
<tsmithe> to spread ubuntu
<Burgwork> no
<Burgwork> to create the goods to help people spread Ubuntu
<Burgwork> some of those include news articles, et.c
<atoponce> mugs, shirts, cds. that sort of thing?
<tsmithe> "diy marketing" stuff
<tsmithe> atoponce, not yet
<tsmithe> but it's coming
<tsmithe> you could always do one ;)
<Burgwork> yep, plus the UWN and the graphical release notes
<Burgwork> I also edit the website
<atoponce> Burgwork: which site?
<Burgwork> ubuntu.com
<atoponce> ahh. cool
<atoponce> uwn...?
<Burgwork> ubuntu weekly news
<Burgwork> tsmithe: we shoudl probably define a mission statement, as it is clear that differnet people have different ideas about "marketing"
<tsmithe> yes
<atoponce> ahh. ok. is the marketing team responsible for the shipit cd's? or is there a shipit team
<Burgwork> shipit is entirely canonical
<atoponce> i knew that
* atoponce smacks himself
<tsmithe> but, Burgwork, do we really know ourselves yet? we should let it evolve a bit first i feel, but would that make it too late?
<Burgwork> never too late to define what we do
<Burgwork> and "let is evolve" hasn't worked
<atoponce> i would be very interested in helping with the mission statement! :)
<tsmithe> Burgwork, i can see that "let it evolve" hasn't worked. we need a passionate leader with vision, really
<Burgwork> right
* Burgwork senses a shanghai-ing coming
<tsmithe> shanghai-ing?
<Burgwork> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_%28verb%29
* tsmithe doesn't get it
<Burgwork> you said we needed a leader
<tsmithe> and i think we do
<tsmithe> but what's that to do with conscription
<Burgwork> there are several logical people, myself included
<atoponce> tsmithe: to shanghai someone, means to force them to work
<tsmithe> i can see that
<tsmithe> but why would it involve shanghaiing
<atoponce> hopefully, it shouldn't
<tsmithe> hi ompaul 
<ompaul> evening
<tsmithe> what is your opinion of the marketing team's "mission statement"
<Burgwork> the need for, rather
<tsmithe> yeah, that
<MagicFab> I recall seing marketplace requirements somewhere other than at http://www.ubuntu.com/support/marketplace/join ?
<ompaul> Burgwork, where is the current "motd" for the marketing team?
<Burgwork> there is none
<ompaul> hmm
* ompaul hears claims of "lack of focus" 
<Burgwork> MagicFab: possibly
* ompaul hears counter claims of well there is the act of encourging people to encourage people
<tsmithe> define:motd
<ompaul> message of the day - the "slogan"
<tsmithe> ah
<ompaul> Burgwork, perhaps a few comments are in order
<ompaul> (A) there is no SU it raises its head now and again
<ompaul> (B) there are CDs for specific projects
<ompaul> (C) there are posters
<ompaul> (D) capturing good will is one thing - it is keeping people in that "good zone"
<ompaul> so could it be said the defacto role of the "marketing team" has been to offer support to people from within it's narrow means, by way of advice when someone wants to encourge others to join the camp?
<ompaul> Burgwork, your (et al) book is a great example of getting a concrete project out the door, without the other parts of the community it could never have happened.
<Burgwork> the book we were paid for
<ompaul> no matter, I get paid to support hardware
<ompaul> if there was no compass there would still be north but it would be a little harder to find :)
<atoponce> ompaul: so what would you suggest me, a newcomer to the team, to do?
<ompaul> UWN came out of this
<ompaul> atoponce, tell me what you do for a living/ studies or whatever
<atoponce> i really want to help, but i'm unsure how to start
<atoponce> well... i'm a computer programmer for a living using proprietary languages
<ompaul> fine
<atoponce> i'm a member of the ubuntu-utah loco team
<ompaul> so what other skills have you got?
<atoponce> president of the ogden area linux users group
<atoponce> not much good at art, but strong in advocation. never really "marketed" before, but this team seems to meet my niche for advocacy
<ompaul> that is a role ;-) not a skill, but it could be said that you have people skills for that role
<ompaul> marketing is about addressing people and "manging their expectations"
<atoponce> yes. i'm not afraid to talk and spread the word. even to random people on the street
<ompaul> okay - so you can use the stuff and have a reasonable amount of technical cluefulness
<atoponce> i have good leadership skills and i am inner motivated
<atoponce> yes
<Burgwork> the Ubuntu marketing team is responsible for spreading some stuff, but not others
<Burgwork> for instance, the loco teams are really responsible for marketing within their area
<Burgwork> we are responsible for global stuff
<atoponce> i know that is where i struggle- trying to find that line
<Burgwork> we are also responsible for creating teh stuff that locos use to market
<atoponce> what are some examples? like the posters?
<Burgwork> yes
<Burgwork> articles
<atoponce> what sort of articles? like blogging, or more specific, like the wiki?
<tsmithe> wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
<atoponce> Burgwork: btw, what part of canada are you at? just curious. i lived in toronto for some time
<tsmithe> at the bottom is the link to the current server branch
<Burgwork> victoria
<atoponce> articles, meaning, printed?
<Burgwork> either
<ompaul> sorry lost my connection
<ompaul> atoponce, whatever you do maintain it at a "how easy it is to do"
<ompaul> level
<ompaul> and only give people easy things to do 
<ompaul> when they want to do harder stuff then be on hand to provide support 
<ompaul> that is all you can do 
<ompaul> if you convert 3 people 
<ompaul> and they each do 2.5 and so on
<ompaul> it spreads
<atoponce> so, for me, find those who are struggling to get ubuntu material created, and provide support?  or, work on converting others to ubuntu, and getting them to do the same?
<ompaul> atoponce, a little of both, if you know the material, (which always needs updating,) and you work with it and people then you have done the job well 
<ompaul> atoponce, you should really try to get your hands on a few of the docs and get a feel for it
<atoponce> ok. as long as i have a clear objective, and a reachable goal, i can do it
<atoponce> is there a marketing forum on ubuntuforums?
<ompaul> so read some material and see if you can get others to help you get others step across the line
<ompaul> there is a marketing mailing list
<ompaul> $forums no idea, there was something but it got eaten by the person who thought they were doing some good with their power plays
<atoponce> hmmm
<ompaul> i.e. all politics are never smooth
<ompaul> :)
<atoponce> agreed
<ompaul> but practical work is easy, and the stuff is on the wiki
<atoponce> is the spreadubuntu site just a pipe dream, or a reality?
<ompaul> it could be something, if people agreed when it would be finished
* tsmithe is eager to help out
<tsmithe> ping ping ping ping ping JENDA
<ompaul> the continued reluctance to put an end goal on it has killed it out
<tsmithe> we need his input here
<ompaul> right
<tsmithe> he has a roadmap
<ompaul> tsmithe, the road map does not have anything other than big signposts 
<ompaul> there is no indication of when you get there
<ompaul> how you will know you are there
<ompaul> i.e. No pre defined tasks
<ompaul> step one 
<ompaul> step two 
<ompaul> step three
<ompaul> result
<ompaul> it is ------> direction over here
<tsmithe> good point
<ompaul> and --------> other there also
<tsmithe> |
<tsmithe> |
<tsmithe> |
<ompaul> s/other/over/
<tsmithe> \/
<tsmithe> true
<ompaul> oh come on there was no need to do that, this is not //aol//
<ompaul> :)
* ompaul runs
<ompaul> Burgwork, the mission statement is one word
<ompaul> encouraging
<ompaul> you can fluff that up with more words but that is what it always has been
<ompaul> any "big ideas" fall foul of the usual "free software community modus operandi"
<ompaul> i.e. small groups work best, and hardest to get their goals
<atoponce> so is the marketing team more about "advertising" or "sales". i'm thinking i'm stroger in the "sales" aspect than "advertising"
<Burgwork> sales is about closing people. We are most certainly not that
<Burgwork> we are more about information
<ompaul> atoponce, consider what ubuntu is - a variety of GNU/linux/linux whatever way you say it, highly polished, with a good support structure that gets people across a line
<atoponce> well, i'm thinking about converting, say, a school to use an "official" linux distro, and use ubuntu, of course
<atoponce> would that me "marketing"?
<atoponce> s/me/be/
<Burgwork> marketing is creating and to some extent diseminating things that communicate the awesomeness that is Ubuntu
<Burgwork> at least in our sense
<jenda> tsmithe: one ping is enough. pong.
<jenda> welcome, atoponce 
<tsmithe> jenda: lighten up, dude! not like up took two hundred lines like before
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> You did improve a lot ;)
<jenda> What's up?
* jenda 's computer is doing weird things, so I'm tending to it.
<jenda> It seems Ubuntu is capable of a system failure when the network is not configured right :/
<tsmithe> weird
<tsmithe> never happened here
<atoponce> jenda: thx
<jenda> tsmithe: it's a lappy, and I set up a static IP for university, where I tested their network (for a showcase box)
<tsmithe> static ip + laptop always seems like a terrible dare to me
<jenda> and now I came home and nothing would work - not even failsafe gnome :-D
<tsmithe> me just has network-manager-gnome with dhcp cos he doesn't dare otherwise
<tsmithe> jenda, that seems bad!
<tsmithe> doubt it's the network
<jenda> it was
* atoponce uses the profiles
<atoponce> home, work, school
<jenda> I fixed it by modifying my /etc/network/interfaces back to dhgp
<jenda> dhcp
<atoponce> just have to remeber when you get to the new location
<tsmithe> weirder
<jenda> It's crazy :-D
<jenda> anyway, what was the ping for?
<atoponce> me, or tsmithe ?
<tsmithe> err atoponce wanted direction
<tsmithe> then we wanted a mission statement
<tsmithe> and then the roadmap for spreadubuntu
<tsmithe> which apparently should be more detailed
<tsmithe> (you have logs!)
<atoponce> basically, i just want something to do. i think i have an idea now, just trying to work out the details
<jenda> atoponce: you pung me too? :)
<jenda> aha
<jenda> tsmithe: but they are looong :)
* jenda scrolls up.
<tsmithe> indeed
* tsmithe never bothers to read the logs
* tsmithe should set the backlog to longer
<jenda> ok... you both saw the wiki... and you want more! :)
<jenda> and I'm supposed to have more... hmmm....
<jenda> ok, I'll think about it ;)
<atoponce> i do think a mission statement would help clear a lot of this up
<jenda> atoponce: I have a great task for you, I think.
<atoponce> ok. anything. :)
<jenda> Mission statement... hmm...
<jenda> atoponce: see the DIY HOWTO section?
<atoponce> wiki?
<tsmithe> you never had a "great task" for me
<jenda> I think it's the type of thing that could suit you.
<jenda> yes.
<tsmithe> wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing
<jenda> tsmithe: because I don't know what you do :)
<jenda> not that wiki :/
<tsmithe> i gave the link earlier!
<tsmithe> oh
<jenda> MarketingTeam/DIYWebsite
<tsmithe> doesn't it link from there
<tsmithe> i thought it did...
<jenda> dunno
<jenda> that must be Dan's work.
<tsmithe> guess so
<atoponce> k. there
<atoponce> MarketingTeam/DIYWebsite
* atoponce eagerly awaits his task
<jenda> Well, maybe you could try to collect what's out there, regarding local DIY marketing projects?
<tsmithe> jenda: what tasks are available? it would be good if you kept a log of stuff you thought of, or do you just think of it on the spot?
<atoponce> ok. like gathering ideas?
<jenda> That would mean, searching for what others already have done: CD stands in vendor shops
<atoponce> off the forums, and from loco teams?
<jenda> tsmithe: I'd like to, but my abstraction isn't good enough - my brain doesn't spit out tasks automatically :)
<jenda> atoponce: pretty much.
<tsmithe> mine neither
<tsmithe> that's why i can't do much without direction
* tsmithe feels like MacBeth
<atoponce> ok. i can do that.
<jenda> perhaps search mailing lists, and _your_own_brain_ too :)
<jenda> tsmithe: what I just said is work for more than one person, you can join atoponce.
<jenda> but if it's done before the site, it will wait anyway ;)
<tsmithe> i don't really understand
<atoponce> ok. and where do you want me and tsmithe to compile the data i collect?
<atoponce> s/i/we/
<tsmithe> wiki
<atoponce> ok
<jenda> MarketingTeam/DIYHowtos
<tsmithe> oh, i would have suggested MarketingTeam/Triage
<tsmithe> but i dunno what's on that page
<jenda> use it as a whiteboard, just dump a list of things there.
<jenda> whatever you find.
<atoponce> sweet
<tsmithe> i dont really know what you're really suggesting
<jenda> Collect ideas for what I, as an Ubnutu user and fan can do for Ubuntu in my town.
<atoponce> tsmithe: you and i, and whomever else, needs to compile a list of marketing ideas from the forums, mailing lists, loco teams, etc
<tsmithe> right
<tsmithe> ok
<tsmithe> gottit
* tsmithe is off
<jenda> Not just marketing ideas - things one can actually do.
<atoponce> then probably help them make it a reality? or is that for another "team" :)
<jenda> (providing (s)he has the team and resources needed)
<jenda> atoponce: not really ,that's up to them :)
<atoponce> ok. np
<jenda> but as a second step, we should have a look at what we have, and think about organising it.
<tsmithe> this is a good first step
<jenda> For example, state how many willing people will be needed.
<atoponce> tsmithe: agreed.
<tsmithe> this should need a table
* tsmithe can't do this now
<atoponce> jenda: what do we do with the data we collect?
<tsmithe> let it stew
* atoponce can create the table
<jenda> start with making a list of specific ideas.
<tsmithe> derive ideas from it
<tsmithe> implement
<tsmithe> but that's for later ;)
<jenda> not sure if a table is necessary ATM
<tsmithe> tables are nice and easy to work with
<jenda> the wiki will be just the dump, make it a simple-to-copy-paste list :)
<tsmithe> better than a sprawl of writings
<jenda> not really.
<atoponce> so what's the final say on the site url?  MarketingTeam/Triage?  MarketingTeam/Howtos?
<tsmithe> a template to copy/paste to is simple enough surely
<jenda> MarketingTeam/DIYHowtos, please
<tsmithe> but if it's just a dump
<atoponce> under a new section?
<tsmithe> , 
<tsmithe> it's not a how-to!
<atoponce> ahh. yeah. s/Howtos/DIYHowtos/
<atoponce> hmm. i think i agree with tsmithe 
<jenda> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/DIYWebsite/HOWTOs?action=edit
<jenda> how about that?
<tsmithe> plus, does it really matter?!
<tsmithe> hmm
<tsmithe> you sure want it to be under HOWTo
<jenda> isnce it's just a dump for that website, and will probably be only used by a few people.
* atoponce doesn't really care, as long as he has a place to dump the data
* tsmithe neither
<jenda> tsmithe: yes.
<tsmithe> stubborn!
<jenda> These should end up _being_ howtos.
<tsmithe> indeed
<jenda> very :)
<jenda> (stubborn)
* tsmithe is also stubborn
* atoponce is on it like white on rice. and he is also very stubborn
<jenda> You said you wanted guidance, here it is. Feel free to take whatever I say, and disregard it :)
* tsmithe away
<jenda> 
<atoponce> but i'm very willing
<atoponce> jenda: and how do you do that smiley???
<jenda> great ;)
<jenda> I bound it on my keyboard, it's a unicode char.
<atoponce> using a screen digraph?
* atoponce uses irssi, but only knows how to enter unicode through screen digraphs
<jenda> nah, I have it bound on my keyboard :)
<jenda> Super+o
<jenda> I have a custom, xmodmap-defined keyboard
<atoponce> ahh
<jenda> I can also do things like  for french,  for Czech and  for latin.
<jenda> Yes, I study latin :)
<atoponce> 
<jenda>  
<jenda> (that was a 'hehe')
<atoponce> W
<atoponce> (sweet)
<jenda> 
<atoponce> i'll figure that smiley out yet, plus 3 or 4 more. :)
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-12-01
<dotwaffle> jenda: I studied Latin. I stopped when I could ;)
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> dotwaffle: I have it as an optional subject ;)
<dotwaffle> :) I've always wanted to learn an auxillary language, I figured I'd either learn Latin or Ido. In the end, I learned Python ;)
<jenda> lol
<jenda> as a lawyer in a civil law country, I will have a use for latin :)
<jenda> or at least I can look smart :/
<dotwaffle> would a nice suit not do that job better? :)
<jenda> hehe :)
<jenda> not a job, it's study atm :)
<dotwaffle> What are people's thoughts on Wine in Ubuntu, btw?
<jenda> For me, it's a temporary solution to a permanent problem. I avoid it.
<Burgwork> it works for somethings not for others
<Burgwork> totally unsupportable
<dotwaffle> So many people I show Ubuntu to are prevented from total migration by one or two applications, typically in-house developed. Just wondering what people though about it.
<jenda> You should offer it as a solution.
<dotwaffle> Yeah, I just don't hace the experience in Wine... Ought to spend an afternoon with it..
<atoponce> jenda: do you know the octal or hex value for your cool smiley?
<lotusleaf> dotwaffle: re: wine, try asking in #ubuntu-offtopic, where I'll respond. ;)
<dotwaffle> cheers ;)
<lotusleaf> dotwaffle: (= also #winehq is a good channel
<dotwaffle> It was more of an ubuntu query, as opposed to Wine. Of course Wine is going to pimp Wine ;)
<atoponce> 
<lotusleaf> dotwaffle: which is why I presented you with three options and three IRC channels: wine, crossover, and cedega
* rjian good morning people
<lotusleaf> rjian: good evening
<rjian> hello lotusleaf
<lotusleaf> hi
<jenda> atoponce: http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/List_of_Keysyms_Recognised_by_Xmodmap
<jenda> look for kana_TSU
<atoponce> jenda: found it  
<atoponce> unicode.org/charts
<Burgundavia_> good evening me lovlies
<Burgundavia_> whose up for some Herd1 release notes hacking?
* Madpilot is hard of herding
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you there?
<poningru> Burgundavia: give me like another hour
<Burgundavia> sounds good
<Burgundavia> I will flesh out a shell
<poningru> Burgundavia: ready
<poningru> linky?
<Burgundavia> in gobby
<Burgundavia> just a sec
<Burgundavia> can you copy in the raw bits from a Knot release page?
<poningru> k
<poningru> did you make a page in gobby yet?
<Burgundavia> nope
<poningru> making one: herd 1
<Burgundavia> got it
<Burgundavia> hey tonyyaru
<tonyyaru1so> Hey Burgund
<Burgundavia> heh
<Burgundavia> want to work on the Herd 1 doc?
<tonyyarusso> Maybe if I can over the weekend?  Not tonight.
<poningru> when is herd going to be released?
<tonyyarusso> I think it's "when the installer works"
<elkbuntu> yep, that's my impression also
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> which means have have tonight to get this done
<tonyyarusso> Dangit
<tonyyarusso> Well, what sorts of things get done on a Herd 1 doc?
<tonyyarusso> Any that can be done if very small time increments?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> can you get us screenshots of sudoku and chess?
<tonyyarusso> That sounds simple enough
* tonyyarusso played sudoku for the first time recently
<Burgundavia> do you see how the older screenshots are done, shrunk and drop shadow added
<Burgundavia> ?
<elkbuntu> i do
<Burgundavia> excellent
<Burgundavia> given my gimp skills are sadly lacking, somebody is going to have to get that rocking
<tonyyarusso> I can shrink, not sure about drop shadow.  I'll try.
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: then deliver the screenshots in complete form
<elkbuntu> i will be the screenshot shadower person if need be
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: Point me to one of the pages with an example of what I'm shooting for?
<Burgundavia> anybody else running Feisty?
* tonyyarusso likes living on the edge
<Burgundavia> a basic screenshot of the app
<Burgundavia> nothing fancy
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: should we email the screenshots to you and you can do the necessary work?
* atoponce loves sudoku
<elkbuntu> yeah, that'd be the best way to have consistancy
<Burgundavia> aside from GNOME and the kernel, what else has changed that is user visible?
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: @ubuntu?
<Burgundavia> talking only Ubuntu here
<tonyyarusso> Well, I saw a little app crash notification icon for the first time today, but I doubt I can reproduce it.
<elkbuntu> tonyyarusso, i've never tried the ubuntu address i theoretically have... melissa@meldraweb.com is guaranteed
<tonyyarusso> 'k
<tonyyarusso> elkbuntu: Away
<elkbuntu> received
<Burgundavia> we can use all the moin code we want in this one, as it is going on the website
<elkbuntu> ok, those are done. http://meldra.no-ip.info/feistyscreenshots
<Burgundavia> please create a Herd1 wiki page and upload them
<poningru> will do
<Burgundavia> actually
<Burgundavia> FeistyFawn/Herd1
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: upload your images to that page
<poningru> yeah made it
<poningru> doh
<poningru> mid air collision
* tonyyarusso catches pieces and grabs fire extinguisher
<elkbuntu> poningru, it's ok.. i figured you'd gone quicker and cancelled
* Burgundavia calls the Dharma Initiative
<elkbuntu> lol
<poningru> oblargh?
<tonyyarusso> Eeeblgleeb
<Burgundavia> you working, you lot?
* Burgundavia gets our his really big whips
<Burgundavia> anybody need a job?
<poningru> yeah /me
<poningru> sorry its just fixing a friends gentoo box
<Burgundavia> can you finish my intro paragraph
<poningru> kk
<Burgundavia> paraphrase off scotts blog post
<Burgundavia> and link to it
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: you busy?
<Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: you must need a job
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: I can do another.
<Burgundavia> do you have feisty?
<elkbuntu> i have two flavours of feisty
<tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: I do
<Burgundavia> I need someone that can show the new UI for gpm controlling frequency
<tonyyarusso> gpm controlling frequency?
<tonyyarusso> huH?
<Burgundavia> cpu frequency
<tonyyarusso> Okay
<tonyyarusso> That makes a lot more sense than me thinking about something related to the 'gpm' package.
<tonyyarusso> um, where is it?
<Burgundavia> gnome-power-manager
<Burgundavia> appears there is no UI
<Burgundavia> so I need a short para on the following changes:
<Burgundavia> gdm theme changes, new metacity theme and that gpm thing
<Burgundavia> I need urls for all three as well
<Burgundavia> for gdm, look on the gdm mailing list
<Burgundavia> for metacity, ditto
<Burgundavia> for gpm, look at hughsies blog
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: I have a screenshot for you
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: ping
<poningru> woot dude fixed the glib prob
<poningru> err wrong channel
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: documentation?
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, right on it
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: documentation?
<Admiral_Chicago> looking forward to Feisty i meant
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, ... where's the window decoration?
<Burgundavia> ah, fucking compiz
<elkbuntu> yeah, it's a bit like that
<elkbuntu> i havent bothered reinstalling it yet
<Burgundavia> let me reshoot
<Burgundavia> man metacity works so much better
<elkbuntu> imagine that
<poningru> hehe
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: i like Beryl a LOT better
<Burgundavia> Admiral_Chicago: tbh, they are both crap
<Burgundavia> and I am scared shitless of beryl's development cycle and general structure
<Admiral_Chicago> i wish i didn't have them installed but man it's impressive. it's just not functional
<Admiral_Chicago> it's eye candy
<Burgundavia> I suspect CompositeByDefault will die on the floor, due to technical limitations
<Burgundavia> ie: compiz and beryl are not "enterprise ready"
<Admiral_Chicago> no it's not ready for the desktop
<Admiral_Chicago> if anything, it should have been in Edgy
<Admiral_Chicago> i don't see anything wrong with one "testing", two stable release, one testing release cycle
<Admiral_Chicago> Edgy was a testing release, dapper was really stable and a solid system
<Burgundavia> that isn't how upstream works
<Burgundavia> and given 98% of our bugs come from upstream...
<Admiral_Chicago> thats true.
<Burgundavia> I have now filed 11 bugs on compiz in 2 days
<Burgundavia> you realize what this means?
<Burgundavia> poningru: feel free to finish the GNOME stuff
<Burgundavia> I need to hack at the kernel stuff
<poningru> k
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgundavia: the real beef I have is the "one desktop" thing
<Burgundavia> yes, that drives me bonkers
<Burgundavia> it was needed for the ridiculous cube crap
<Admiral_Chicago> if i'm on a seperate viewport, i DONT want to see the other open windows in other viewports in my taskbar
<Admiral_Chicago> it makes me nuts
<Admiral_Chicago> and i want to be able to put a different background on a different viewport
<Admiral_Chicago> that would make me happy
<Admiral_Chicago> don't get me wrong, the developers do amazing work
<poningru> yeah what would be really cool is to expand the polyhedron according to the number of viewports added
<poningru> wtf
<poningru> wiki.gnome.org just gave me server down
<Burgundavia> live.gnome.org
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: mind doing your spelling lovelyness?
<Burgundavia> we are almost ready
<poningru> Burgundavia: I dont know about that last comment in gobby
<Burgundavia> right
<poningru> theme and gpm should be seperate imho
<Burgundavia> for those smaller changes,without a screenshot, we should group them together
<poningru> well there is a bunch of theme changes that are being grouped together
<poningru> and for the gpm you cant really do a screeny
<Burgundavia> yep, but none of those have a UI yet
<poningru> right
<poningru> mostly backend
<Burgundavia> no screenshot == no section
<poningru> :(
<poningru> I dont know if I like that one
<poningru> but dude power is reall != theme
<poningru> really*
<poningru> grouping them together is like grouping cpu and hdd together... not even same category
<Burgundavia> themes are interesting, but neither of those things are really: I am going to install Feisty over them
<Burgundavia> hence they are minor changes
<Burgundavia> we are grouping by interesting-ness, not location in the desktop
<elkbuntu> "Of course, one game did get axed. Sadly "
<elkbuntu> what comes next?
<poningru> Burgundavia: I'd say power is interesting
<poningru> especially lower mem usage
<Burgundavia> minor stuff
<poningru> people eat that up
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: right, need to figure out which game got axed
<elkbuntu> iirc there used to be 2 majhong games
<Burgundavia> yep, ataxx got dropped
<poningru> Burgundavia: if you are serious about this then I will combine them... but I still say we should give them each their section
<poningru> especially power
<Burgundavia> lets do one section, see how it looks and then make a decions
<poningru> kk
<elkbuntu> one thing im waiting for, or if its just me that hasnt found it, an easier way... an option for gnome-panel icons to need double-click
<Burgundavia> maybe the new applet stuff will do it
<elkbuntu> im talking about the launchers
<Burgundavia> those are applets
<Burgundavia> hmm, maybe a video of the doubleclicking action?
<poningru> can someone go to bugs.ubuntu.com?
<Burgundavia> it works
<Burgundavia> redirects to lp
<poningru> hmm
<Burgundavia> a bit slow
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: how is the spell checking going?
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, looks fine to me
<Burgundavia> excellent
<Burgundavia> one thing to check, then I think we can copy
<Burgundavia> poningru: we looking good from your end?
<elkbuntu> "a new theme version for the desktop, allowing for better themes" should that be 'a new themer'?
<elkbuntu> line 32
<poningru> yeah looking good
<Burgundavia> right
* elkbuntu points at her question above
* poningru shrugs
<Burgundavia> reworded
<Burgundavia> anybody editing?
<Burgundavia> copying back
<elkbuntu> let me typo your rewording first
<elkbuntu> now you may
<Burgundavia> I love you :)
<elkbuntu> of course
<poningru> group hug!!
* poningru hugs elkbuntu and Burgundavia 
<Burgundavia> yay!
<elkbuntu> :)
<Burgundavia> request: can you reshoot those two screenshots at the same size?
<Burgundavia> and reupload them with nicer names?
<Burgundavia> without spaces
<Burgundavia> see http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/flight2
<elkbuntu> hmm? which two?
<Burgundavia> never mind, got it
<poningru> Burgundavia: you still editing?
<Burgundavia> yep
<Burgundavia> done in a sec
<poningru> couple of things with the massive merge from deb title 
<poningru> and the disk analyzer attachement
<elkbuntu> do you need me to re-shadow things?
<Burgundavia> nope, got it
<Burgundavia> yours to edit
<poningru> kk
<poningru> done
<poningru> too many pics
<poningru> err screenies
<Burgundavia> yep, I know
<poningru> larger ones without dropshadows
<Burgundavia> I am making them links soon
<poningru> cool
<Burgundavia> ping me when you are done
<poningru> Burgundavia: err I really dont have anything else to...
<Burgundavia> right, I thought you were editing
<elkbuntu> Burgundavia, if you're editing, un-bold the ataxx line
* rjian is away (rjian is on OFFLINE)
<elkbuntu> rjian[out] , please please please, disable away messages
<Burgundavia> elkbuntu: editing done, please check
<elkbuntu> You can find out more about Ubuntu on our [WWW]  website, [irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/ubuntu IRC channel]  and [WWW]  wiki.
<elkbuntu> that doesnt look right...
<Burgundavia> you fixing it?
<elkbuntu> not yet, go for it
<Burgundavia> nixternal: kubuntu herd page ready?
<nixternal> yes
<nixternal> been ready..but there is no Kubuntu Herd 1 ;(
<Burgundavia> nope, but that gave us time to whip up a Ubuntu Herd 1 page
<nixternal> hehe
<nixternal> at least there is a Herd 1 image for Ubuntu and Edubuntu
<poningru> elkbuntu: sorry what was wrong with it?
<poningru> the irc thing? or the [WWW] 
<elkbuntu> poningru, irc thing
<elkbuntu> moin didnt parse it
<Burgundavia> ok, now the page has the same byline as the UWN
<Burgundavia> I need to sleep, so final checks
<poningru> hmm
<poningru> lame
<poningru> there is no HERD1?
<poningru> for kubuntu
<atoponce> not exactly tactful, but funny nonetheless: http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/518/tagthemoneyul8.jpg
<atoponce> some more spread ubuntu stuff: http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2300&cat=500&ppuser=71909
<dgold> why the differentiation of LiveCD vs Install - isn't current terminology Desktop vs Alternate?
<dgold> reading the marketing pages on launchpad/wiki - there were surveys being done, with imput date in early October.
<dgold> There doesn't appear to be a results date for those...
<atoponce> seems to me elkbuntu released the results of that survey?
<atoponce> maybe not
<dgold> can't see results liked anywhere
<dgold> the MarketingSurvey wiki sill shows ?? for any results/analysis
<tonyyarusso> atoponce, dgold: She's still processing them (slowly - busy person).
<somerville32> _o/
<Admiral_Chicago> poningru: there should be
<poningru> what?
<poningru> wow good timing
<Admiral_Chicago> kubuntu herd 1
<jenda> yo, MitchM, somerville32... others ;)
<somerville32> Heya Jenda
<MitchM> hey jenda 
<somerville32> no posters yet <g>
<jenda> aww
<jenda> they'll get there ;)
<poningru> oh hehe
<MitchM> jenda, Whats up?
<jenda> atoponce: those are old SU designs
<jenda> at the time, SU had a sligthly different goal, I think.
<jenda> But something of that sort would still have its use, I think.
<jenda> MitchM: lots, and not much at the same time :)
<MitchM> =) well -- sounds just about right to me
<atoponce> http://blog.josephhall.com/2006/11/sugar-cookies.html   ubuntu sugar cookies
<atoponce> recipe and all
<jenda> omg 
<atoponce> nice, eh?
<jenda> For the unindoctrinated, wheat flour contains two proteins: gliadin and glutenin. When these two proteins get together and get wet, they turn into gluten. And the more gluten is worked (via mixing, kneading, etc), the more elastic it gets, which of course makes it chewier.
<jenda> I've never seen such a geeky recipe, but it fits ;)
<atoponce> he's from our LoCo Team. he is a *major* geek
<atoponce> and a fabulous cook
* jenda likes cooking too
<jenda> But if I ever even thought of doing Ubuntu cookies, I think most of my RL friends would abandon me :-D
<jenda> (for being too much of a geek)
<atoponce> http://blog.josephhall.com/2006/11/tux-cookies.html   try that on for size.  
<atoponce> and last, but not least http://blog.josephhall.com/2006/11/firefox-cookies.html
<atoponce> anyway, i'll add the ubuntu cookies to the wiki
<jenda> haha :) beautiful :)
<jenda> the firefox cookies are crazy. really.
<jenda> that guy... is just professional.
<jenda> atoponce: how long do cookies like that last?
<jenda> He should sell them by mail-order.
<jenda> :-D
<atoponce> jenda: cookies like that wouldn't last long in my household
<atoponce> they'd be eaten in no time
<jenda> hehe :) mine too.
<atoponce> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/community/parentalcontrols.mspx   something is wrong with that first screenshot
<atoponce> s/wrong/funny/
<lotusleaf> bah, I wish I could go one day without reading the word Microsoft, oops, there it is again! :P
<jenda> atoponce: ROFLMAO
<jenda> that is one hell of a secure computer.
<atoponce> yeah. especially for parental controls
<atoponce> you'd think that they would be more careful with what screenshots they put on their website
<atoponce> but, i've said it before, and i'll say it again.  you can fix all the bugs and security holes that you want, but if you are not implementing basic security practices in your operating system, then how in the world can you expect your users to practice security???
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-12-02
<Burgwork> hmm, pclinuxos magazine is interesting
<Burgwork> elkbuntu: ping
<Burgwork> elkbuntu: final ping, leaving work soonish
<jenda> Burgwork: it's early morning there...
<Burgwork> 8 hours off makes it 11am
<jenda> omg... it's early morning _here_ too :)
<jenda> ok, the time goes too fast for my taste, disregard me.
<jenda> 
<somerville32> :)
<Burgwork> elkbuntu: I see you in -ops
<elkbuntu> i've only just got to the computer
<elkbuntu> im not even showered or fed yet
<somerville32> :] 
<Burgwork> bah
<somerville32> Burgwork: Any work for me tonight?
<Burgwork> yep, the Feisty doc
<elkbuntu> Burgwork, have you been waiting around for me?
<Burgwork> elkbuntu: yes. it is now 5pm and I wanted to leave work at 3pm
<Burgwork> I am very annoyed. You made you work a whole 8 hours
<elkbuntu> awww.. im sorry :(
<Burgwork> ON A FRIDAY
* elkbuntu cuddles Burgwork
<Burgwork> it is just isn't done
<Burgwork> somerville32: he is a slightly gruntish task
<somerville32> : )
<Burgwork> we need to verify all those specs I dropped on the list are in fact, targetted at Feisty and that there have not been any more added
<somerville32> Fun.
<Burgwork> you asked for something to do :)
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> Same place, same password?
<Burgwork> same bat cave
<Admiral_Chicago> anyone know if beryl servers are back up?
<Burgwork> appear to be
<Admiral_Chicago> Burgwork: ty
<Admiral_Chicago> negative
<Burgwork> beryl-project.org
<Admiral_Chicago> http://ubuntu.beryl-project.org/dists/edgy/main-edgy/binary-i386/Packages.gz  404 Not Found
<Admiral_Chicago> :\
<Burgwork> right, those
<somerville32> Just the person I was looking for!
<Burgundavia> greetings
<somerville32> :)
<somerville32> How are ya?
<Burgundavia> not bad
<Burgundavia> what did you need me for?
<somerville32> Burgundavia: I just wanted to talk about LookingForwardAtFeisty and Heard 1
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> Herd 1 is done, save bug reports and last minute stuff, but please run past myself 
<somerville32> k
<somerville32> When are the documents planned to be done?
<somerville32> or sorry
<somerville32> to be released
<Burgundavia> Herd 1 is released upon release of Herd 1
<Burgundavia> I hope to have the other done this weekend
<Burgundavia> s/I/we/
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> What do you want for each spec? A write up?
<Burgundavia> sort of
<Burgundavia> basically, I think we need a doc that neatly explains the goals for Feisty to end users and developers
<somerville32> Thats the thing I love about Ubuntu
<somerville32> You can actually see what is getting done
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> this makes those specs more accessible to the outside world
<somerville32> Btw, any word on the next CCM is?
<somerville32> *when
<Burgundavia> ccm?
<Burgundavia> cc?
<somerville32> Community Council Meeting
<Burgundavia> right. That is usually referred to as CC
<Burgundavia> no idea
<somerville32> I'm going to go to bed for now
<somerville32> I think I'll reorganize LookingForwardAtFeisty tomorrow
<tsmithe> ping jenda
<jenda> tsmithe: pong
<tsmithe> i checked the launchpad pages for one of those bug reports, and nothing related was subscribed (i think)...
<tsmithe> now /me comes to think of it, he is unsure
<jenda> thx for checking, but I'm quite sure one of them has to be - or it's a bug, but a weird one.
* tsmithe checks again
<elkbuntu> jenda, im not sure, but i think mailman has been weird lately. -devel got -sounder stuff last week iirc
<tsmithe> i checked all the subscribers and none of their email addresses = ubuntu-marketing
<jenda> I heard
<jenda> weiiiird  
<jenda> tsmithe: wow 
* jenda still thinks there is an old dupe-bug somewhere...
<tsmithe> well /me is off to walk dog
* jenda want to wok tsmithe's dog
<elkbuntu> ok.. that reads so wrong
<jenda> intentional ;)
* MenZa roars
<elkbuntu> you're nuts
<jenda> elkbuntu: it's a joke US soldiers in vietnam had, or so i was told.
<elkbuntu> i can believe it
<elkbuntu> im sure it was around in the korean war as well
<dotwaffle> more likely to be korean, koreans are famous for supposedly eating dogs. don't think it happens in Vietnam...
<jenda> They do eat dogs. I know one.
<jenda> 
<elkbuntu> i think the countries in that region tend to consume anything with protein that isnt toxic.
<dotwaffle> It's been a while since I've had chance to call anyone but Germans or Americans crazy, so I take this moment to declare... South-East Asians are crazy.
* jenda consumes anything with protein that isn't toxic.
<klepas> Germans?
<klepas> crazy?
<dotwaffle> klepas: Visit a German demoparty, and see Germans clad in PVC and metal dancing to happy-go-lucky-pop, and deny their crazyness ;)
<klepas> haha
<klepas> okay, point taken
<klepas> but who visits those parties anyway?
<klepas> other crazy people?
<elkbuntu> you need proof germans are crazy. read dholbach's latest blog...
<klepas> linky
<elkbuntu> planet.ubuntu.com
<dotwaffle> klepas: ME ;)
<jenda> lol
<jenda> Germans are crazy...
<jenda> I just traded 10 posters with one for an Ubuntu polo shirt ;)
<dotwaffle> Says a Czech ;)
<jenda> :)
<MenZa> Ubuntu polo shirt!
* MenZa falls over
<MenZa> I want one
<MenZa> Where? Who? Why? How?
<jenda> Czechs aren't crazy... they only drink a little more beer than others.
<klepas> well at least i am proof that not all germans are crazy
<klepas> some are half-sane
<tsmithe> jenda will charge extortionately now for that shirt
* tsmithe is a briton!
<ompaul> klepas, and the other half?
<jenda> I'll keep that shirt - I bought the posters to send him, from myself...
<MenZa> jenda is most definitely not crazy.
<ompaul> xaner?
<ompaul> xsaner that is
<MenZa> tsmithe: you made that shirt :D?
* jenda is :
<tsmithe> MenZa, no!?
<tsmithe> what gave you that idea?
<jenda> how do you like the smiley? :)
<MenZa> *shrugs*
<MenZa> I'm desperate
<MenZa> I want one
<MenZa> :d
<tsmithe> jenda: you and your crazy smilies
<jenda> MenZa: I'll be making some...
<klepas> ompaul: not sure
<MenZa> jenda: really? Sweet.
<klepas> get to know me and decide for yourself :)
<jenda> but try contacting Nik Butler or Julius bloch - they have some now ;)
<dotwaffle> klepas: Proof that Germans, Danish and Portugese are indeed crazy: http://slengpung.com/v3/show_photo.php?id=14726&ref=event
<klepas> surely not all...?
<dotwaffle> I have no proof to the contrary ;)
<klepas> me?
<ompaul> what is mad is that we let you think you are mad :-)
<klepas> :D
<klepas> :-)
* atoponce is no good at wikis
<klepas> CamelCase ftw
<dotwaffle> you can't get more mad than the FInns though ;) Hard rocky salty liquorice mixed in vodka... Salmiakki Koskenkorva...
<jenda> I had that stuff once.
<jenda> I swear to god I've never had anything worse.
<jenda> I mean... no, I only had salmiakki itself.
<dotwaffle> I get it every year - for some reason I always forget how bad it is ;)
<jenda> I guess the vodka makes it worse, until you have had a lot already.
<atoponce> how do i center an image in the wiki?
<dotwaffle> jenda: you guessed right, when drunk, it's quite nice. but don't drink it FIRST ;)
<jenda> yes :)
<jenda> I ate one of the damn candies... and it was terrible.
<jenda> For some reason I thought the second would be better... :/
<atoponce> i've been thinking about our mission statement idea...
<jenda> uh oh
<jenda> 
<jenda> atoponce: I'm very nervous, and rather busy right now, mind if I try to avoid the discussion for now? :)
<atoponce> :) sure
<atoponce> why are you so nervous?
<jenda> I'm giving a speech on accelerated desktops tonight
<jenda> and I just finished getting ready, I think...
<atoponce> ahh. part of openweek?
<jenda> or at least, can't think of nuthing to soy
<jenda> nope
<jenda> The Linux Weekend - a RL thing :)
<atoponce> ahh. cool
* MenZa is going to a Linux expo in March
<atoponce> well, i'm just going to spit out some ideas. i'm open for suggestion from anyone
<jenda> cool
<jenda> I'll have a look at them, and perhaps respond later, if I can help it :)
<atoponce> ok
<atoponce> thinking out loud, but i think bug #1 should be the foundation that we built the mission statement on
<jenda> +1
<atoponce> from the "bug report":
<atoponce> What should happen:
<atoponce> "2. Ubuntu should be marketed in a way such that its amazing features and benefits would be apparent and known by all."
<jenda> OK, I'm out.
<jenda> See ya later, will check it later too.
<atoponce> ttyl
<jenda> atoponce: maybe you might want to put it on the mailing list.
* atoponce is on the phone
<atoponce> jenda: will do
* atoponce is finally off the phone
<atoponce> ok... where was i?
<atoponce> oh yeah. i think that #2 above should be our focus specifically.  In fact, I find it worded perfectly to be the main goal of our mission statement
<atoponce> from there, we can break it down a bit and add a few points that will help give it direction
<atoponce> like:
<atoponce> 1) spreading the brand and trademark that is ubuntu
<atoponce> 2) enlightening users to the features that ubuntu offers
<atoponce> 3) encouraging users to create and spread ideas
<atoponce> what do you think?
<atoponce> my LUG is currently writing a constitution and mission statement to give us clear direction, but also, to help the officers know what is expected of them and what needs to be done at any given time
<atoponce> so anyway, what do you guys think?
* tsmithe is away ;)
<tsmithe> but...
* tsmithe thinks...
<tsmithe> ...
<tsmithe> very good!
* atoponce impatiently awaits...
<atoponce> any feedback? ideas? comments? rude rebarks? 
<tsmithe> arf arf
<atoponce> s/rebarks/remarks/
<tsmithe> fra <- rebark
* atoponce can type on occasion
<tsmithe> (2) is a bit general... ubuntu has many features
<tsmithe> (3) what kind of ideas?
<tsmithe> (1) is good
<atoponce> cool. yeah. ok. well...
<atoponce> thinking about 2), what makes ubuntu unique from the other distributions?  what really makes it stand out?
<tsmithe> the community
<tsmithe> this is not emphasised enough, anywhere
<atoponce> i can think of a few things, like a 1 cd install, 6 month rollout, strong community
<atoponce> but also software features.  spread firefox set a good example.
<tsmithe> but these ideas are only useful when compared to other linux distributions
<tsmithe> damn i'm a bit late
<atoponce> they focus on security, anti-phising, stability, tabbed-browsing, etc
<atoponce> i think we could market similar ubuntu features. they don't *have* to be unique, necessarily
<atoponce> those are the "features" that i was thinking of, but it definitely could be more specific
<atoponce> for 3), this is where i'm a bit rusty, but think it should be included nonetheless
<tsmithe> re features: things that people a) like, b) are looking for, c) don't know they could have, d) are not scary; unless we are focusing on devs
<atoponce> are we, as users and a marketing team, encouraging users outside the team to create ideas to spread ubuntu?
<atoponce> tsmithe: yeah. exactly
<tsmithe> atoponce, of course we encourage others to spread ubuntu!
<atoponce> good! :)
<tsmithe> it'd be silly otherwise
<atoponce> you see what i'm getting at, though? we can't be 100% responsible for spreading ubuntu.  we need to put 100% effort into it, but we also need others to do the same.
<atoponce> with the size of community that ubuntu has, if everyone put in 100% effort to get ubuntu on computers, MS would lose their market share overnight
* atoponce is very passionate about dethroning MS using Ubuntu.
<atoponce> :)
<tsmithe> how many users does ubuntu have
<tsmithe> i've heard 6m
<tsmithe> if that doubles every two releases, then in five years there will be 144m people using it
<tsmithe> we need every user to conscript one other every year
<tsmithe> that's not too hard!
<atoponce> agreed
<atoponce> we CAN do it, we just need to get off our lazy butts, and get to work! :)
* tsmithe is
<tsmithe> lazy and at work
* atoponce is lazy as well
<poningru> glaah
<poningru> are we working on UWN 24?
<somerville32> :D
<somerville32> We sure are! :D
<poningru> where? consus or wiki?
<poningru> err gobby or wiki?
<poningru> its freakin saturday man!!
<somerville32> poningru: ping
<poningru> somerville32: pong
<somerville32> I'm going to go get some food
<somerville32> But when I get back, do you want to work on the queue?
<poningru> sure
<poningru> where is the queue?
<somerville32> Gobby
<poningru> err it is?
<somerville32> Yeah.
<somerville32> There are two documents that need finishing this weekend
<poningru> herd 1 and ?
<poningru> uwn24?
<poningru> cause thats not been started yet
<somerville32> LookingForwardAtFeisty
<poningru> oh
<poningru> kk
* somerville32 gets ready to run to Wendys
<somerville32> <g>
<poningru> hehe
<somerville32> He ran away :(
<lotusleaf> ompaul: yo gnewsense dude
<ompaul> sup?
* ompaul watchs the lag meter go off the scale
<jenda> hello
* jenda just got back
* jenda is tired... but happy :)
<jenda> It was cool, and went well.
<ompaul> still lagging but down to a much smaller 2.6 seconds
* ompaul wonders what was biting lotusleaf's tail
<lotusleaf> ompaul: ?
<ompaul> nibbling at the edges so to speak :)
<ompaul> the big yo!
<poningru> blargh?
<lotusleaf> oh, well hello then =)
<ompaul> ahh that I understand :)
<lotusleaf> (= :) =)
<ompaul> hi there
<jenda> somerville32: ping
<somerville32> jenda: pong
* jenda just noticed you're member-candidating 
<somerville32> Indeed! :] 
<jenda> Good luck there - I'm reading your wiki now.
<somerville32> Think I got a chance?
<jenda> Most certainly :)
<jenda> your xubuntu-welcome-centre link is broke, though ;)
<somerville32> doh
<MenZa> welcome centre
<jenda> MenZa, i found a guy today who wants to make a business doing Ubuntu merchandise.
<MenZa> sweet
<jenda> He runs a printer.
* jenda is curious what'll come of that.
<jenda> But since he attended the Linux Weekend, he's probably not gonna be a bad guy ;)
<jenda> And he'll probably be printing more Ubuntu Highway posters once I'm out.
<jenda> :)
<somerville32> Speaking of posters, haha
<tsmithe> jenda: how was the talk?
<jenda> great :)
<jenda> great folks, Czech Linux users :)
<MenZa> :D
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: need any link scrounging for UWN24?
<Burgundavia> haven't really looked, but sure
* lotusleaf flaps arms
* lotusleaf wiggles beak in air
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: ready for link scrounging whenever =)
<Burgundavia> go forth now
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: but for what?
<lotusleaf> the last time, I checked for edgy reviews, and know that I know what type of summaries to glean =)
<lotusleaf> now that I know* :)
<lotusleaf> or know that I know now * :)
<lotusleaf> or know that I now know
<lotusleaf> =) =)
<Burgundavia> any news on Ubuntu or derivs
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: cool, I'll scrounge about
* lotusleaf kisses a coffee bean
<somerville32> Lets all get on gobby and work :)
* lotusleaf has never tried gobby
<lotusleaf> "Technalign chooses Kubuntu for TaFusion Linux" http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/11/prweb485213.htm
<Burgundavia> ok, this is fun
<Burgundavia> cd goes in, hangs everything
<Burgundavia> eject has hung, sound-juicer won't start
<Burgundavia> ouch
#ubuntu-marketing 2006-12-03
<lotusleaf> Burgundavia: ok, I aborted a link scrounging session for reviews, too many ubuntu reviews to sort through to find kubuntu and other reviews, and you can't easily omit ubuntu from the search when searching for the others. =)
<lophyte> nixternal: ping
<nixternal> yo yo
<lophyte> hey..
<lophyte> where do you guys (ubuntu-chicago) get funding for projects that need money?
<nixternal> we pitch in
<lophyte> ah, so it comes out of your pockets?
<nixternal> i know myself and another member forked out some cash last meeting
<nixternal> i will probably plan on forking out around $100 for the next meeting as well
<lophyte> ubuntu-to has only been around for 3 months, and people are constantly bringing up the idea of trying to make it an NPO
<nixternal> we are doing the same
<nixternal> but can't because ubuntu is registered 
<nixternal> canonical is the only ones who could do it
<lophyte> and I keep discouraging it
<lophyte> you're doing what?
<lophyte> talking about it?
<nixternal> trying a not-for-profit
<lophyte> I think its beyond the scope of a LoCo team to do that
<lophyte> maybe its just me though
<nixternal> im sure it is
<nixternal> but it is the only way to get proper funding for events, meetings and what not
<nixternal> i can't expect people to keep forking out cash for every little thing we do..it turns people away
<lophyte> right... but my feeling is that going through the process of registering as an NPO is too much overhead
<lophyte> its excess work imo
<nixternal> actually, registering it here in Illinois is free if you take the silly class the state offers
<nixternal> the crappy part are the tax licenses
<lophyte> well, I don't mean having to pay for it, I mean all the work that is involved...
<lophyte> you have to keep track of your finances and report stuff to the goverment and all that
<lophyte> perhaps creating a separate entity?
<lophyte> that way, it avoids the 'Ubuntu' trademark..
<nixternal> ya, we can't use the Ubuntu trademark in the US
<lophyte> so you could create a separate entity that works more or less hand-in-hand with your LoCo
<nixternal> we could
<lophyte> and call it something like "Chicago Open Source whatever"
<lophyte> I don't know what you'd call it
<lophyte> chicago open source initiative? *shrug*
<nixternal> we could
<lophyte> might be something worth exploring :)
<lophyte> anyway I gotta head to bed..I just wanted to pick your brain regarding loco+NPO stuff
<nixternal> im thinking about bed as well
<nixternal> im tired
<lophyte> me too
<poningru> yarr
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> poingru: You can away!
<poningru> sorry 
<poningru> I was watching movie
<Admiral_Chicago> lophyte: i'm not sure how i feel about the idea ^^chiacago loco
<somerville32> *ran
<somerville32> bah
<Admiral_Chicago> i don't think we would need it
<jenda> elkbuntu: ping
<elkbuntu> pong
<jenda> you were asking for locoteam stuffs
<jenda> Not sure if it is of interest to you, but the CZLUG has organised the Linux Weekend - this weekend, and both Czech Ubuntu members spoke there...
<jenda> ...unfortunately, ondrej's topic was VoIP, and mine Accelerated Desktop (shown on Ubuntu)
<jenda> 100 Ubuntu CDs were given to the first 100 people, and I gave out a few more personally later on (will return today with more)
<elkbuntu> cool
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: how are the shirts coming?
<elkbuntu> add a writeup to the UWN :)
<Admiral_Chicago> also, the posters?
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: yesterday, I met a guy who's starting his own printer, and is interested in making Ubuntu stuff on his own... that means... could be good... 
<jenda> but he is in it for the money, so maybe not that good. Depends on the prices he ends up doing.
<jenda> The thing is, when you buy something from me - you _still_ make profit for some printer, and this way, it could get cheaper.
<jenda> for the Ubuntu user.
<tsmithe> well, you could always be competitive
<tsmithe> and he'd lower his prices
<jenda> of course - as long as there is cheaper stuff out there, he'd have to go lower.
<jenda> But you know - if we didn't like what he's doing, I don't think he'd sell a single thing ;)
<Admiral_Chicago> jenda: still have posters? last ? before I say night
<jenda> I have to check with jono first.
<jenda> Admiral_Chicago: yes, 80 left
<Admiral_Chicago> okay good
<Admiral_Chicago> bbl
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-26
<johnc4510>  /me UWN #67 out, digg it here: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Weekly_Newsletter_67
* vorian changed the topic of #ubuntu-marketing to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Marketing Team's IRC channel | We're here to fix Bug #1 | Keep in mind that whatever your LoCo  does, any other LoCo can benefit from your work or experience! | Please sign up to the mailing list, ubuntu-marketing at lists.ubuntu.com | UWN #67 is out! UWN #68 in progress, release TBA
<desertc> Is Digg a good choice for information dissemination?  They are often on the wrong side of free speech issues.  Try also Reddit?
<Burgundavia> desertc: they have audience
<Burgundavia> and yes, we should use them as well
<juliux> hi all
<MenZa> hey juliux 
<somerville32> Heya
<desertc> http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/22242
<desertc> I think this link would be worthwhile to retain for marketing efforts.
<desertc> Where would be a good place to post it?
<Burgundavia> desertc: blog about it personally
<desertc> Well, I found the link on a blog, so it is out there in the ether-space...
<Bruno_> hi, does anyone know anything about the marketing team in mexico?
<somerville32> Bruno_, We don't like to talk to them.
<Bruno_> why?
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> I'm just joking
<Bruno_> ...
<Bruno_> lol
<Bruno_> i tried contacting them, but no one replied
<Bruno_> anyway 
<Bruno_> i'd like to get myself involved, but i dont know what i can do
<Bruno_> any.. umm, ideas?
<somerville32> Bruno_, You could help out with UWN translations
<Bruno_> where can i find them and translate them 
<Bruno_> launchpad?
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-27
<gerr1> morning all 
<SteveA_> gerr1: I saw an ubuntu server ad on slashdot today
<gerr1> you did??
<gerr1> great - i just sent the youtube links to the marketing mailing list
<SteveA_> youtube?
<SteveA_> I took a screenshot if you want it
<gerr1> send it through. yeah youtube.
<SteveA_> sent
<popey> gerr1: are we okay to embed those videos in our blogs?
<popey> http://digg.com/videos/educational/Ubuntu_Server_Trouble_Free_adverts dugg
<gerr1> popey: please do 
<popey> done :)
<MitchM> jenda: ping
<DPic> Hello, I'm new. I think i'll be joining this team :) My name's Danny Piccirillo from the Ubuntu Massachusetts Team www.ubuntu-ma.us and i am an Ubuntu member. I've done most of the work on my team's wiki and i hope i can help out here
<somerville32> DPic, Welcome :)
<desertc> Been following that Open Document Format initiative in your state's government?
<DPic> Didn't it die? I thought Microsoft won the battle :(
<desertc> Yes, I believe you are correct.  I was wondering if there was anything new, since FSF is being very vocal about the ODF.
<desertc> I've been researching the conclusion of that fiasco today, and it is clear to me that Ubuntu - and all desktop operating systems - need to consider integrated accessibility features.
<desertc> From what I understand, the handicap advocacy groups would not accept that ODF did not have applications that supported accessibility features, like MS Office.  They are a powerful group, and, really, technologists do not consider them enough.  (ex: Video playback)
<desertc> DPic: Anyway, welcome to the team.  Your announcement of the Massachusetts team reminded me of the research I was doing today.  Cheers.
<DPic> http://devalpatrick.com/issue/computingfreedom
<DPic> That's something that was posted to the MA governor's site and we're trying to gain support for them
<desertc> Thanks for the link.
<desertc> It would be very appropriate for state governments to fund open source projects to provide this functionality.  I wonder if an initiative like that could be undertaken.
<desertc> OSS lends itself to be contributed through many sources (state governments) for a common goal (accessibility).  One of those things that makes so much sense that you get the feeling it will never happen, though.
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-28
<DPic> Would it be a good idea to start some Why Ubuntu and Why Open Source pages on the wiki? 
<DPic> I don't feel like there is any place that non-super-tech savvy people can understand the benefits of open source
<DPic> and Ubuntu, Linux for human beings sounds like the perfect place to start :)
<Burgundavia> DPic: those should probably be on the website
<Burgundavia> and I believe there is
<DPic> you mean already? 
<DPic> i looked
<DPic> can you find it? 
<DPic> I was hoping that we could have a main Why Ubuntu page that outlined the benefits of Ubuntu for all of it's users and then maybe a bunch of pages underneath it that dicuss the benefits for specific people. Ubuntu for Students, Families, etc. And then have a main Why Open Source? Page with a similar purpose and then possibly pages under that which discuss why open source should be used in school, government, etc. 
<Burgundavia> that is a lot of pages
<Burgundavia> and a lot of maintenance
<desertc> You must have read my post in the LoCo mailing list...
<desertc> Take a look at the ubuntu-us mailing list, I have some similar thoughts there - maybe you could respond on the list.  No one else has.
<desertc> Night all.
<jenda> MitchM... pong?
<somerville32> lol
<somerville32> jenda, Heya Jenda
<jenda> heya, somerville32 :)
<somerville32> How are you?
<DPic> desertc, is this the message? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us/2007-November/000229.html
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-29
<somerville32> @schedule atlantic
<somerville32> erm
<ubotu> Schedule for Canada/Atlantic: 29 Nov 10:00: Desktop Team Development | 29 Nov 12:00: Community Council | 01 Dec 07:00: Kubuntu Developers | 01 Dec 15:00: Art Team | 04 Dec 12:00: Server Team meeting
<poningru_> come help with release notes
<BHSPitMonkey> ... everybody?
<poningru_> BHSPitMonkey, yes
<TopAgent> hello everyone... Can someone advise me as to what program that I can use in ubuntu to track clients and the buy sell transaction that would be a similar program to the "top Agent" in the Windows platform... I have recently converted to linux and really like it but other than Openoffice I need something geared a little more towards the real estate industry... Any Help would be appreciated
<somerville32> TopAgent, I can't see anything in the repository
<TopAgent> Well I appreciate you at least looking\
<somerville32> However, I see somethign on gogole
<somerville32> ugh
<somerville32> *something on google
<TopAgent> what?
<somerville32> http://mtechit.com/linux-biz/realestate_and_construction/ <-- List of companies using Linux in Realestate and construction
<somerville32> http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Information-Management/Real-Estate-Management-Software-2900.shtml <-- Real estate management software for Linux
<TopAgent> well it's something... maybe I can catch a lead from them... thx for the help
<somerville32> The second one is a web-based solution
<somerville32> "Real Estate Management Software is the perfect real estate management solution for real estate professionals.
<somerville32> Get all your listings on the web with free, easy to use web-based real estate management software.
<somerville32> Create your areas, school districts and property types and even upload images. Full featured searching available. 100% free license. Uses PHP and MySQL."
<TopAgent> Now thats what I call help.. Thx a bunch!
<somerville32> Also, an article of interest here: http://www.linux.com/articles/19224
<somerville32> TopAgent, See #ubuntu-server for help setting that software up. If it works well for you, let me know and I'll package it so other people can download it like normal :)
<TopAgent> really cool, but being new to the os I am not exactly sure how to get it up and running.... 
<TopAgent> what is the software name and where can I download it
<TopAgent> I will be spending some time going through what you have given me...
<TopAgent> What do I need to do for ?? PHP ?? and MySQL??  remember I am an agent.. Unfortunately not a linux hacker/
<somerville32> TopAgent, :)
<TopAgent> :)
<TopAgent> But I can sell ya a house hahaha
<somerville32> TopAgent, :D
<somerville32> TopAgent, Are you an independent?
<TopAgent> will soon be, going on the last leg of my Broker training
<TopAgent> If I ever figure out how to use this stuff, How can I contact you with a review?
<somerville32> cody-somerville@ubuntu.com
<somerville32> I also hang out on here all the time.
<somerville32> If you have any trouble at all, please feel free to contact me.
<somerville32> I'd be happy to assist you anyway I can.
<TopAgent> thx
<somerville32> also, I'd check out #ubuntu - lots of great people in there looking to help other users.
<TopAgent> i use the KDE version and they tell me to go to another page
<TopAgent> but thx and i have some homework to do now... Bye
<MenZa> jenda
<MenZa> please tell me you're here
<Burgundavia> MenZa: haven't seen jenda in a long while
<MenZa> I've seen him pop in every now and then
<Spec> so this channel is designed to help coordinate evangalism via our LoCo cells?
<MenZa> No.
<MenZa> It's designed to coordina-WORLD DOMINATION
<Spec> or is it just UWN?
<MenZa> :P
<Spec> I'm particularly interested in defeating bug #1 in the realms of k12 edu
<Spec> it's cool though, google's helping. they just announced a new high-school-programmers-thingy for open source.
<MenZa> awesome
<MenZa> meh
 * MenZa must dash
<MenZa> I have ANOTHER meeting now
<MenZa> jebus
<Spec> I think since it's based on pre-college/highschool, they're focusing on bug fixing/tracking/reporting/etc
<Spec> so perhaps we can get more people working to squash bugs via google.
<K_Dallas> Good evening folks!
<K_Dallas> I have chosen Ubuntu to present as a company with successful marketing strategies for an mba class of mine
<Burgundavia> hello
<K_Dallas> I have been using Linux (as a simple user) for many years and been using Ubuntu for quite a while 
<K_Dallas> I am trying to find some information about your strategies, segmentation, targeting, positioning sort of thing
<K_Dallas> both qualitative and quantitative
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> well, from the perspectivie of the community side, we pretty much don't do any of that
<K_Dallas> I would greatly appreciate if you lead me to the right direction and information
<Burgundavia> we are all bottom up, grassroots driven
<K_Dallas> i understand
<Burgundavia> basically, we provide a great OS and people just use it
<Burgundavia> and then they talk about it
<Burgundavia> there are a few concerted efforts done by various groups
<K_Dallas> true but you have chosen to make the installation way different and easier, to make it work better with the majority of components
<Burgundavia> and some of our development actually creates "market segmentation"
<Burgundavia> right, exactly
<K_Dallas> i used to use debian but each time i had to configure my display, mouse, etc
<Burgundavia> but in terms of marketing as a specific entity, we do a few things different from other Linuxes
<K_Dallas> but ubuntu does it right out of box and that is maybe not that important to gurus but for someone with limited knowledge or time, it means a lot
<Burgundavia> we have fairly good release notes, graphically done
<K_Dallas> i see
<Burgundavia> I would say that Ubuntu is a case in "unmarketing"
<K_Dallas> lol that is not good for me ;)
<Burgundavia> no, it is quite interesting
<K_Dallas> i have convinced my prof that it is otherwise
<Burgundavia> especially for MBA types, no offence
<K_Dallas> well, please elaborate
<Burgundavia> basically, open source orgs/companies spend almost nothing on advertising or marketing
<Burgundavia> that includes time by volunteers
<Burgundavia> they do a fair amount of passive marketing (producing collateral) but little active stuff
<Burgundavia> given the nature of the software (free to get), you instantly get people playing with it and they create your buzz for you
<Burgundavia> I do have one lesson about marketing
<K_Dallas> but the fact that you have focused in ease-of-use and desktop users, isnt it targeting special segments of active population
<Burgundavia> basically, Ubuntu decloaked and had a working product already
 * K_Dallas all ears
<Burgundavia> so that initial "oh, interesting" turned into users
<Burgundavia> if you announce and then have the release days|weeks|months|years later, you lose those initial people
<Burgundavia> but you need a solid product at the time as well
<Burgundavia> which comes to my second point about what Ubuntu does well: get good people
<Burgundavia> from the very getgo Mark has hired excellent people, communicative talky people who can also develop well
<Burgundavia> this has built a community of similar and like minded people
<K_Dallas> i see
<Burgundavia> bound together by strong social institutions such as the CC and the CoC
<K_Dallas> CC ?
<Burgundavia> community council and code of conduct
<K_Dallas> oh
<Burgundavia> basically, it is a classic case of "if you built it, they will come'
<Burgundavia> and "if you keep them happy, they will stay"
<K_Dallas> true but have you been successful in converting windows users into ubuntu users?
<Burgundavia> which boils down to the fact that marketing can rarely really be stripped away from development, community building, etc.
<Burgundavia> I would assume so
<K_Dallas> any data, survey ?
<Burgundavia> distros in general have been fairly successful recently, mostly due to better tech
<Burgundavia> the recent linux foundation one is pretty crappy data, but it might have
<Burgundavia> afaik, nobody has done any formal marketing studies, or at least that are released publicly
<K_Dallas> true but i am just wondering if the number of users has grown considerably?
<K_Dallas> i see
<Burgundavia> now, Canonical has their own marketing department that does a lot of the traditional things
<Burgundavia> advertising, case studies, etc.
<K_Dallas> anything for ubuntu?
<K_Dallas> or it is just shipit
<Burgundavia> all of that is for ubuntu
<K_Dallas> oh
<Burgundavia> canonical is the corporate sponsor of most of Ubuntu development
<K_Dallas> true
<Burgundavia> but then again, the biggest thing they have done is foster the community around Ubuntu, via building that initial social framework I mentioned and then keeping it strong with lots of resources
<K_Dallas> that would be actually interesting to show the canonical CEO as an astronaut and humanitarian
<Burgundavia> one of those resources is the ShipIT program, which is a form of marketing
<K_Dallas> i am actually very happy with that program as i have seen people from all around the world using it
<Burgundavia> yes
<Burgundavia> all about getting ubuntu into people's hands
<Burgundavia> there is no better marketing than word of mouth
<K_Dallas> and i would add actually getting to experience it
<Burgundavia> that is part of getting it into people's hands, but yes
<K_Dallas> I am going to install it on my laptop tonight and do all the presentation with OOo and on Ubuntu and yet say nothing about that until the end of the presentation
<Burgundavia> so for your prof, here is what I would say:
<Burgundavia> "ubuntu has had success in marketing via ignoring most of the 'conventional' rules. By giving the product away for free and shipping it for free to anywhere int eh world, Ubuntu has built a huge user base which provides developers and acrtive users, both of whom talk about Ubuntu, thus marketing via word fo mouth"
<Burgundavia> "To help build the community, Canonical was very saavy in providing resources and building a social structure, allowing those contributors to feel valued"
<Burgundavia> "Development has provided much of the market segmentation via focusing on ease of use, something previous Linux distributions have often failed at"
<K_Dallas> are they being paid?
<Burgundavia> "and finally, at launch, the product was good enough to use day to day, leading to instant adoption
<Burgundavia> "
<Burgundavia> and yes, Canonical is a company with paid developers
<K_Dallas> excellent
<Burgundavia> the distro team within Canonical is about 30 or so right now
<K_Dallas> I see
<K_Dallas> do you by any chance target certain governmental institute, such as switzerland, or German army, or australia (sydney mayor), ... at all?
<Burgundavia> having that core team paid allowed development to progress quickly
<Burgundavia> Canonical might "target" people, but I highly doubt it
<Burgundavia> I suspect that they are swamped merely with incoming leads
<K_Dallas> such as?
<Burgundavia> they have never released any numbers or name
<Burgundavia> names, rather
<Burgundavia> well, no quite
<Burgundavia> if people self identify, that gets out
<Burgundavia> but most businesses are very publicity-adverse, especially when it comes to their infrastructure
<K_Dallas> i was also talking to my teammates about the availability of kbuntu, xubuntu, edubuntu, et
<Burgundavia> right, of those, the two most interesting are Edubuntu and Ubuntu Server
<K_Dallas> even though it is really not hard to convert from one to another, has it played an important part in attracting more
<somerville32> Burgundavia, :/
<K_Dallas> we all know that people have a love-affair with their desktop ;)
<Burgundavia> somerville32: sorry, but it is true, but the perspective of an outsider
<Burgundavia> K_Dallas: that is a very very very small vocal minority
<K_Dallas> ok
<Burgundavia> most people couldn't care less about their computer
<Burgundavia> it is a thing, it does stuff
<K_Dallas> are the other flavors of ubuntu all supported by canonical as well?
<Burgundavia> that is the biggest challenge and that is one that Ubuntu has done very well at meeting
<Burgundavia> some are yes
<Burgundavia> Edubuntu, Server and Kubuntu are all supported
<K_Dallas> good
<Burgundavia> to most people, a computer is just a glorified toaster
<Burgundavia> toasters do not get "viruses"
<Burgundavia> and buying a new one is really not that exciting
<K_Dallas> what about the language support
<Burgundavia> it therefor follows that most people could care less about what OS is on a compouter
<K_Dallas> is ubuntu the distro with the most number of language supported
<Burgundavia> language support is key, as a lot of people need non-English
<Burgundavia> possibly
<K_Dallas> i see
<Burgundavia> we do make translation easy via Rosetta
<K_Dallas> oh!
<K_Dallas> I once tried to help debian with their new gui installer and my mother tongue but it didnt go well, there not much of encouraging there
<Burgundavia> what is your native tongue?
<K_Dallas> Persian
<Burgundavia> ahh
<Burgundavia> yes, RTL is fun
<K_Dallas> lol i know
<Burgundavia> lots of assumptions get broken with RTL
<Burgundavia> I have a passing knowledge of arabic
<K_Dallas> but i wasnt helping them with the technical problems, mainly with the translation as what they had was terrible
<Burgundavia> translation quality is a fairly major issue, one that is not completely solved
<Burgundavia> it is part a social and part a technical problem
<K_Dallas> i know a lot of people from iran who have done excellent jobs in the opensource community wrt Persian and RTL
<Burgundavia> basically, the technology should empower people to do the right thing socially
<K_Dallas> true
<Burgundavia> currently it doesn't really
<K_Dallas> so if we talk advertising, except for shipit, is there any other activities going on in this domain?
<K_Dallas> or it is as you said word of the mouth kind of advertising
<Burgundavia> Canonical has done a little bit
<Burgundavia> a billboard on the freeway in Cali right opposite Oracle (although they have never admitted to that ad)
<Burgundavia> and recent server ads
<K_Dallas> i see. we studied a company in one of the latin american countires which used ordinary women as its ad agent and its seeling agents 
<Burgundavia> those can be seen on the -marketing list
<K_Dallas> i see
<Burgundavia> the average person is actually a very compelling advertising/marketing "vechile"
<K_Dallas> any picture from that, by any chance?
<K_Dallas> amazingly, true
<Burgundavia> the marketing list has links to both of them
<Burgundavia> lists.ubuntu.com
<K_Dallas> thanks
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-11-30
<Burgundavia> anyway, I have to run
<Burgundavia> if you have more questions, email me
<Burgundavia> corey.burger@ubuntu.com
<K_Dallas> I am just curious as how ubuntu's strategy and build different from SuSe or RedHat as they also pay their savvy developers
<Burgundavia> they haven't played the community aspect as well
<Burgundavia> and it has hurt them
<Burgundavia> both are playing catchup
<K_Dallas> thank you, i might do it in the next few days specially that my teammates had never heard of ubuntu ;)
<K_Dallas> you mean with opensuse and fedora?
<Burgundavia> yes
<K_Dallas> i see
<Burgundavia> notice all the governance stuff opensuse and fedora are doing now
<K_Dallas> never thought about that
<K_Dallas> not really
<Burgundavia> that is because Ubuntu has shown that consistent community governance makes people trust the process more
<K_Dallas> good, we actually had a course on ethics and governance in the last period
<Burgundavia> yes
<K_Dallas> so the problems we are seeing among debian developers, and such, it is hurting their image and success
<Burgundavia> yes, part of the lack of good governance
<K_Dallas> How much Canonical CEO is involved in ubuntu and with the team, sorry i have forgotten his name but i mean the astronaut
<Burgundavia> Mark, very much so
<Burgundavia> he sites on both of the governing boards
<Burgundavia> the CC and the Technical Board
<K_Dallas> excellent. is he an IT guy as well
<K_Dallas> i havent read his bio, sorry
<Burgundavia> yes, very much so
<Burgundavia> parts of launchpad are written by him
<Burgundavia> wikipedia has a good writeup
<K_Dallas> i will look him up, thanks
<K_Dallas> do you think that some one from your marketing be able to give me some data, numbers for the success rate of ubuntu at least compared to other linux distros
 * K_Dallas is the first time hearing about the launchpad and reading it on canonical page, pretty interesting
<Burgundavia> K_Dallas: those numbers just don't exist
<Burgundavia> well, they do, but not publically
<K_Dallas> darn :(
<Burgundavia> and I seriously doubt you are going to get them
<K_Dallas> ok :) no pushing
<Burgundavia> I don't work for Canonical
<Burgundavia> I have tried to get the data out of them myself and failed
<K_Dallas> i understand
<K_Dallas> the marketing data, usually are pretty expensive to buy if they sell them
<Burgundavia> most marketing data is utter crap, tbh
<Burgundavia> having been a Marketing Director, I can tell you this
<K_Dallas> :) good to know
<Burgundavia> now I really have to run
<K_Dallas> thanks so very much for all your help
<K_Dallas> appreciate it a lot
<K_Dallas> have a nice evening 
<somerville32> :)
<desertc> You know that Highway Poster that was created for Ubuntu Marketing?  How do I convert the .JPEG image that was created into something that I can print out, like a .PDF ?
<desertc> Ah - I see Eye of GNOME can handle that conversion.
<desertc> Anyone had success with posting this up in public spaces?
<desertc> I am thinking about printing 500 copies and putting them up during my vacation.
<DPic> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dell_FREEDOM_Box_A_Fully_Open_System_for_Home_Users_by_2010
<DPic> Thoughts? 
<K_Dallas> Good morning folks!
<K_Dallas> Last night I had a great chat here about Ubuntu marketing strategy and stuff. Thanks.  My question today is: Has Ubuntu worked with DELL and WalMart to have it installed on their system or it has been their own decisions? (FYI, I am preparing a presentation in marketing and ubuntu) thanks
<K_Dallas> Q2: Do you think that 2008 could be a great year for Linux Desktops? 
<K_Dallas> Last night I had a great chat here about Ubuntu marketing strategy and more. Thanks (Burgundavia) .  My question today is: Has Ubuntu worked with DELL and WalMart to have it installed on their system or it has been their own decisions? (FYI, I am preparing a presentation in marketing and ubuntu) thanks
<K_Dallas> and Q2: Do you think that 2008 could be a great year for Linux Desktops? 
<K_Dallas> Hello! Q1: What has been the underlying strategy of Ubuntu going to DELL and Walmart? Is it mainly focused on North America or there have been other works in Europe, Asia, ...
<somerville32> K_Dallas, Mostly North America if you include Walmart
<K_Dallas> Q2: i see, thanks
<K_Dallas> oops
<K_Dallas> so i wonder why not europe especially that they are more open to no-patent for software, and opensource
<somerville32> I didn't know Walmart's empire expanded into the east.
<K_Dallas> somerville32, they are already in china and india
<desertc> K_Dallas: Q2: 2007 has already been an outstanding year for Linux desktops.
<K_Dallas> agreed
<K_Dallas> but would you be able to give me some numbers, statistics? i have found a few but not enough especially wrt Ubuntu
<K_Dallas> www.icd.com seemd to have some good data but they are not for free
<desertc> K_Dallas: You should understand that Canonical is the corporate entity behind Ubuntu.  Ubuntu is a loosely affiliated group of people from all over the world.
<K_Dallas> i know
<desertc> So, when you say, "What has been the underlying strategy of Ubuntu going to Dell and Walmart", that's not technically correct.
<K_Dallas> i am not stranger to linux but it iwas to some extent thanks to ubuntu that now we have dell+ubuntu and walmart+ubuntu lindows couldnt pull it off
<K_Dallas> desertc, but linux could stay in the realm of its fan or could open up to the public
<K_Dallas> that is a strategy in my book. 
<desertc> Regarding specifc numbers, Dell has not shared any numbers.  There are some estimates that they have met numbers, there are some estimates that they have not met their numbers, with the Ubuntu systems.
<K_Dallas> one personal example: i always loved debian but whenever i wanted to install it i knew that i had to spend time configuring my display etc. ubuntu was all right from the get go
<K_Dallas> i see
<desertc> Instead, consider the proliferation of other Linux desktop vendors.
<K_Dallas> beside, from what i have read, Mike actually kind of ngotiated or talked to walmart or was it dell people so it was not that they felt just like it and decided to use ubuntu
<K_Dallas> desertc, have they been more successful  recently
<desertc> Five years ago, there were two or three vendors who actually sold Linux pre-installed.  Today there are dozens.  And Canonical is even developing a hardware certification process to differentiate them!
<K_Dallas> i know that fedora and to some extent opensuse are used here and there, fedora i guess more, but have they boosted their volume
<K_Dallas> great, very nice
<K_Dallas> i barely know vendors which have linux preinstalled except for dell and walmart
<desertc> Those are obviously the biggest, but there are others that sell online and provide exceptional customer service.  System76 being the most well recognized in the Ubuntu community.
<K_Dallas> desertc, how much of this change, in your opinion, is due to ubuntu emergance?
<K_Dallas> i see, will check them out, thanks
<desertc> Who is this presentation for?
<K_Dallas> after years of engineering work, i am back to do an mba
<K_Dallas> we have a marketing class and since in the other classes everybody is talking about Steve Jobs and Dell, I decided to talk about ubuntu since to me they have done an impressive job of bring it ubuntu int the mainstream
<K_Dallas> but i have not much of data and info about their marketing strategy (which i am told is more like demarketing ;) and that is why i am inquiring and goolging
<K_Dallas> i am also going to install ubuntu on the laptop, which is total shock to my classmates even though many of them are from IT!!! and do the presentation in openoffice and write up the report with LaTeX ;) total opensource
<K_Dallas> they have the doubt that i used to have 7-8 years ago
<desertc> Making Linux easy to use and making it widely available was inevitable.  Everyone who looked at the technology and the market knew it would happen, but someone had to step up and get it done.  Other organizations had made half-hearted attempts, but they were always making jury-rig fixes that did not hold up.  There was a perfect-storm of Linux brewing for a while now, and Canonical was the first one to capture that energy.
<K_Dallas> desertc, but how much of canonical's efforts were technical improvement, how much was advertising and marketing? 
<K_Dallas> mandrake was an easy to install distro back in the old days but it never caught up
<desertc> For other parts of your presentation, the MBAs may be interested to know that Open Source is not just the best way to own technology.  It's also (in almost all cases) the best way to develop technology, since it reduces development and support costs.
<K_Dallas> agreed, with reserve
<desertc> Did Mandriva make it easy to play encrypted DVDs, for example, or load proprietary codecs ?
<K_Dallas> but i cannot really talk much about all the benefits as she has given us 8 min of presentation so i have to be really focused on marketing + 1 min of intro
<K_Dallas> desertc, never used mandriva and with mandrake i never played DVDs
<desertc> There is simple to use because you can't do anything, but I am talking about doing everything you want to do and it being simple.
<K_Dallas> i got the point
<K_Dallas> so that is one factor in ubuntu's success
<desertc> Yes, you can do everything you want to do, and it is easy to do that.
<K_Dallas> make it as easy as i layman desktop with XP 
<desertc> I think XP is not easy to use, actually, but I suppose if that's what you know right now, then your analogy would be in the right ballpark.
<desertc> I would equate it with an iPhone, myself
<K_Dallas> desertc, people are used to windows so even if it is twisted, they think it is easy
<K_Dallas> that could work, iPhone, my younger classmates are so hooked up on these gadgets ;)
<desertc> You may be getting easy and familiar confused.  Easy means fewer steps, in my opinion.
<K_Dallas> when you are familiar with a maze, it becomes easy to you
<K_Dallas> but i get your point
<desertc> In Ubuntu, to install a program, you open the program manager, find the package, click install, and use the program.  It is by far the easiest way to use programs on any operating system.
<K_Dallas> :) well mainly because they are all in the same place and use the same installer and so on and so forth which are all the strengths of ubuntu
<K_Dallas> but that is a good point to mention, thanks
<K_Dallas> but does canonical target a certain age group, or geographical place? Going to sever business is targeting very specific clientele
<desertc> I mentioned the perfect-storm before... That package ease-of-use came from the improvements of apt-get, the packaging tools of .DEB, the standardizing interfaces of GNOME and KDE, and Canonical took these all and put their technical support behind it.
<K_Dallas> never used perfect-storm, last time i use ubuntu it was synaptic and apt-get
<desertc> It is important to understand that Ubuntu did not come out of the blue with this operating system.
<desertc> I am saying it is a "perfect storm" of technologies that made something like Ubuntu inevitable.
<K_Dallas> ok ;)
<desertc> Everyone saw something like this coming.  It was Canonical who finally stepped up to do it right.
<K_Dallas> i agree. debian was already one of the best if not the best out there and building upon it was a good decision
<desertc> I think you can find the information on the marketing targets on Ubuntu.com
<K_Dallas> i will look again, i might have missed it, thanks a lot for the conversation
<K_Dallas> i only wished i had more CDs to give out during the presentation ;)
<K_Dallas> I am going to hand out the job announcement for marketing manager opening at the end of the presentation ;)
<desertc> Here, print out this community generated magazine and give to everyone: http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-7/
<desertc> Just produced this week.
<desertc> Ugh -- what was the point of exploiting Hands Reiser in the Full Circle Magazine?  The story from 2006 isn't even news.
<desertc> K_Dallas: Maybe print out Issue 6, instead.
<K_Dallas> of course, i am also going to print the chinese edition ;)
<K_Dallas> Amazing! my other project is about TESCO and globalization, your issue-6 has a piece of news that they are not offering PC+Ubuntu in the UK ;)
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-12-01
<DPic> just 30 more diggs and it could hit the digg top 10 http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dell_FREEDOM_Box_A_Fully_Open_System_for_Home_Users_by_2010
<desertc> I am sort of boycotting Digg.  Is it on Reddit?
<desertc> Did not Dell already say they wanted to push all their vendors to supporting Linux kernel devices?
<desertc> I seem to remember that from the Dell + Ubuntu announcements
<DPic> You could post it to reddit if it hasn't already been :)
<DPic> dell did say that
<DPic> but this is asking for more than jsut drivers
<DPic> that's all they said. which is good, but this is just putting pressure on them to take it further
<desertc> We should find ways to help Dell sell their existing Ubuntu PCs, too.
<DPic> i think the ubuntu pc's sold really well, i don't think ubuntu is *quite* ready for most home users, but i do have high hopes thaat it will be by 8.04 and maybe by then, Dell will be willing to run a cable ad
<desertc> I see no reason Ubuntu couldn't be used by every home user, as long as it came with technical support and hardware support.
<desertc> Sure beats having someone bring their PC to Best Buy every time their Windows goes haywire.
<DPic> that is true
<desertc> My thoughts on Idea Storm is Dell gave Ubuntu a chance based on those recommendations, but, instead of embracing that Ubuntu solution, the new Storm linux ideas deviate to "Support all Linux OS" and "Sell Ubuntu Computers for Less" and "Replace the keyboard for Ubuntu computers so they don't have Windows keys"...
<DPic> that's one wawy to look at it i guess...
<DPic> reddit http://reddit.com/info/61w9l/
<desertc> I get a bit disheartened when I look through them all.  I was hoping the people who promoted the idea of the Dell + Ubuntu PC would find a bunch of ways to promote the idea and generate sales, if it is the grand solution.  I am a bit biased because I do a lot of work with Dell.
<DPic> i see
<desertc> That link does not come up for me.
<DPic> http://reddit.com/info/61w9l/comments/
<DPic> that work? 
<desertc> That worked.  I bumped ya!
<DPic> cool, thanks :)
<DPic> damn. it's now over 100 away from being on the figg top 10 because they updated the list
<DPic> :(
<desertc> That social networking is a tricky business.  Everyone wants to get the "Digg Effect"
<DPic> yeah... it was so close...we just missed! :(
<DPic> maybe if i had woke up an hour earlier i would've had time to spam a bunch of people :P
<desertc> I like what Corey said in the mailing list, "I rather suspect it will be well before 2010 that we will see this."  I like his optimism.
<desertc> It's funny - I have been staring at the "Ubuntu Highway" marketing poster for several days, debating whether to print out 500 copies and post them around town.
<desertc> The only thing stopping me is the fact that I do not completely agree performing an installation from a downloaded ISO or Ship-It CD is the best approach.  At least, I wish there was some mention of vendor systems.  Isn't that strange, that I am seeking to promote corporate entities?
<desertc> It's great that we have so many vendors to choose to recommend.  Dell has name-recognition, Walmart has super-cheap desktops with 24/7 support, System76 has great Canonical relations and a great support staff, and plus there are others who are more local to your area.
<DPic> oh crap i sent it out twice
<desertc> As a marketing group for Ubuntu, I think we should leverage these organizations that do the heavy-lifting for us.  No need to spend hours on the phone troubleshooting a friend's installation -- just recommend a vendor.
<desertc> I would personally rather distribute 500 Dell + Ubuntu posters than 500 generic Ubuntu posters.  Know what I mean?
<DPic> yeah definitely
<DPic> there has to be soemthing we can  do about that
<desertc> It's like - yeah - Dell made this great PC with Ubuntu, now that's done, so let's get it moved into our communities.  Sure beats trying to hold an installfest each week and beg to reformat people's PCs.
<DPic> you're right.
<DPic> but installfests are fun :)
<DPic> and they target people who want to install ubuntu on their existing machines
<DPic> and who can't do it themselves
<desertc> If you can't install Ubuntu yourself, then you need to get tech support for your computer.
<DPic> but there are more people who we could reach out to with vendors
<DPic> but nobody know who to call for ubuntu
<desertc> You can buy an Ubuntu computer from Dell and you will have 24/7 support.
<DPic> yeah but we're tlaking about those who are installign it for themselves
<desertc> For $200 you can get a new computer from Walmart with 24/7 technical support
<DPic> yeah the gPC
<desertc> Or, you can have someone at an Installfest install Ubuntu for you, and then you will cry when you have problems.
<DPic> well, the frreedom box didn't go so well on reddit
<DPic> it went up to at least 4
<DPic> now it's down to one
<desertc> Maybe the installfest person will have given their number, and when you call in the middle of the night, they say: Look on IRC #ubuntu
<DPic> lol
<desertc> When you go to IRC #ubuntu, they say, look on Ubuntu Forums
<DPic> what a nightmare
<desertc> When you go to Ubuntu Forums, you get no response...
<desertc> Then you go back to Windows.
<desertc> Contrast that with: Buy a computer, GRUB comes up with an error, call tech support, get problem fixed, continue using Ubuntu.
<desertc> I'm serious.  In fact, I am getting on the phone with System76 RIGHT NOW to get some posters.
<DPic> you can just call and ask for posters? 
<DPic> what if ubuntu had vendor teams? 
<DPic> would the be too commercial? 
<desertc> They actually have a program for LoCos:
<desertc> http://system76.com/article_info.php?articles_id=26
<desertc> I think it's extremely commercial, yet System76 has the same mission goals as LoCos, so why not work together?
<DPic> oh yeah i think my team did that
<DPic> yeah and imagine what could get done if there were vendor teams that we could find right from the wiki
<desertc> I mean - Dell and System76 have done a good deal for the Ubuntu community, so why should we feel bad helping their commercial efforts, especially when their goals match our own: To get Ubuntu into our communities.
<DPic> yeah
<DPic> So now lets sayd Dell created the Dell(Vendor?)Team on the wiki. They could give us materials for promoting their ubuntu systems as well as hold a presence here in the ubuntu comminity
<DPic> i'm not sure how the teams would be made up tough
<DPic> they would just hire a small team i guess? 
<DPic> Or maybe ubuntu could have just one VendorsTeam which would act as a got to group for vendors
<DPic> that might make more sense
<DPic> and be less commercial
<desertc> I am participating in a new Ubuntu team that has those goals, let me find the link..
<desertc> https://launchpad.net/~hardware-testing  I had a long talk with Marc and he is working toward vendor certification program and such things.
<desertc> Let me see if I can invite him to this channel...
<DPic> that's a little bit different than what i was thinking of
<desertc> Yes, but if he is a vendor liason, then he will have some ideas for us.
<DPic> oh yeah
<DPic> so is it worth starting this vendors team?
<desertc> When I talked with Marc, it sounded like the intention of this hardware-testing team would be working wiht the vendors, so I'd like to hear from him first.
<DPic> oh okay
<DPic> did you email him or something?
<desertc> I sent him a PM on Freenode
<desertc> Hmm
<desertc> I just thought of a market that I have never seen mentioned for Free Software advocacy.
<desertc> ... goes off to #ubuntu-us to discuss
#ubuntu-marketing 2007-12-02
<desertc> DPic: Are you around?
<desertc> Was having a nice chat with someone in here yesterday about vendor affiliations...
<desertc> Is there a chat log of this channel?
<beuno> desertc, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
<desertc> TY!
<beuno> np
<desertc> Yes, it was DPic.  DPic: Let me know when you are back so we can chat with CR3 regarding our conversation from yesterday.
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-11-26
<meoblast> Flannel: when do you think ubuntu will be commercial ready?
<BHSPitMonkey> when they start selling it on Dells
<BHSPitMonkey> oh wait.
<meoblast> BHSPitMonkey, you mean when they start selling it on hardware that wont outlive the waranty?
<BHSPitMonkey> heh
<BHSPitMonkey> so do you mean ready to sell commercially to consumers, or ready for commercial business use
<meoblast> consumers
<meoblast> im sick of seeing on the news... windows this windows that mac this mac that.... make a comment on windows.. have to make a mac comment.. but dont have to make a linux comment? wtf
<meoblast> how did macs get so popular in the first place
<meoblast> all they do is crash 24/7
#ubuntu-marketing 2008-11-30
<skymuss> hi @all
<johnc4510-laptop> Issue #119 of UWN is out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue119
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-11-23
<johnc4510> The new issue of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available:
<johnc4510> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue169
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-11-24
<dpic> http://www.reddit.com/tb/a7h71/
<dpic> ^ local marketing project i'm organizing =]
<Takyoji> Ooo
<BHSPitMonkey> That's awfully... specific
<dpic> hm?
<BHSPitMonkey> Linux && Ubuntu && Anime
<BHSPitMonkey> Maybe it's not *that* small of an intersection :P
<dpic> it isn't
<Takyoji> If you're talking of like a Venn diagram style of analysis, then Ubuntu would simply be a subset of Linux, rather than an individual set from it. :P
<BHSPitMonkey> Takyoji: yeah... I listed them in a "drill down" order :P
<alvarin> hi
<alvarin> has any one  a poster for a school showcase??
<alvarin> school means high school..
<Reaby> i added original and english translation of general ubuntu presentation to spreadubuntu.. it uses pictured from ubuntu.com so delete files if it's not ok to use the pictures.
<Reaby> also i would be happy if some native english speaking person could take the time to check texts and make better translation
<popey> Reaby: url?
<Reaby> http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/en/material/presentation/ubuntu-910-general-presentation-english
#ubuntu-marketing 2009-11-28
<biertie> someone that can tell me how many users ubuntu users there are?
<popey> biertie: nobody knows :)
<popey> last estimate I saw put it at about 13 million
<biertie> fedora has that estimate too 
<biertie> and since I think ubuntu is +- bigger, I'll tell ubuntu has +- 14million users :P
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-11-29
<tajul> hai all
<tajul> just want to get info
<tajul> regarding the 11.04 versio
<tajul> is that true tha Ooo.org no longer use?
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-12-03
<Captainkrtek> hello
<Captainkrtek> quick question if anyone is here
<tobyjones8_> Hello
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-12-04
<foxATworkstation> LTE (4G) it come more wide popular, in 2011 most of Europen and Asia  Mobile Telecommunication Company offer a high speed Internet 70 MB/s
<foxATworkstation> It's consider a support this type of device, witch use to connecting to internet, like mobile phone 4G, modem 4G or other device in 4G LTE technology
#ubuntu-marketing 2010-12-05
<masticator> elite botnet http://ihaxor.hpage.com/get_file.php?id=911761&vnr=270300
#ubuntu-marketing 2012-11-29
<kaziweb> I've selected a school to inform them about Ubuntu. Can anyone guide me how can I convince them properly. For sure I need to take some presentation to them. Is there any ready presentation that I can edit, upgrade, translate in Arabic and present it to them? This is going to be my first attempt to any school. Any guidance that what I can offer them?
