#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-06
<astraljava> micahg: It's a good starting point. :)
<micahg> well, we always need testing :)
<micahg> anyone else?
<DaveF_> Specs say 11.04 needs 4.4 GB of space. Can I still FULL INSTALL it on a 4GB USB drive- I don't need all the apps like Gimp, office, or games.
 * micahg thinks xubuntu will fit on that, but can't be 100% sure
<pleia2> you can use the alternate installer to install on less than 4G
 * micahg thought there was a bug recently about the space requirements being wrong
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> ubiquity requires 4.4
<DaveF_> thanks!
 * micahg cries over the 803MB i386 daily live ISO
<DaveF_> I'm new to linux so I need the system gui apps like synaptic, etcs, I can always ad Libreoffice, gimp later if I need and have space
<DaveF_> pleia2: do you know what is missing from the alternate cd?
<astraljava> micahg: It'll come down in time, for sure. :)
<pleia2> DaveF_: nothing, it's a different installer that doesn't have the same hard-coded installation requirements (the 4.4 is actually for ubuntu, not xubuntu)
<micahg> astraljava: s/gdm/lightdm in the seed should knock off at least 50 :)
<astraljava> micahg: Great!
<DaveF_> pleia2: thanks. I tried ubuntu but dont like the unity interface (like so many others)
<pleia2> it's not for everyone :)
<astraljava> pleia2: What do you mean? I thought Ubuntu was supposed to be Linux for Everyone! :D
<DaveF_> pleia2: so the normal installer is that much bigger than the alternate installer?
<pleia2> DaveF_: it's not the installer that's bigger, the installer just checks for 4.4G before moving forward to make sure ubuntu will fit - xubuntu is smaller so it doesn't *need* 4.4G free, but the installer still checks for it
<pleia2> the bug report is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/784020
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 784020 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity doubles stated filesystem size requirements" [Undecided,New]
<DaveF_> Ah! any less apps in the alternate, that you know of?
<pleia2> no, it's identical
<DaveF_> pleia2: Cool! and thanks!
<pleia2> welcome :)
<DaveF_> I use LiLi USB Creator to build my USB installs - works great!
<pleia2> micahg: thanks for chairing!
<astraljava> Yeah, good job!
<micahg> pleia2: thanks, my first time :)
 * micahg just send the meeting notes off to the ML
<micahg> thanks to everyone for coming
<astraljava> Thanks for hosting! Will be back tomorrow to talk about testing, might in fact be able to do daily tests for the time being.
<micahg> astraljava: cool, charlie-tca should be back tomorrow and he has more info on testing
<astraljava> micahg: Yeah, sure I'll talk to him more about it.
<Unit193> I did a test of 32 alt today (Was my turn) and I know drc also does some testing
<pleia2> oh, we never got an alpha 1 news post on the site, we should be sure to designate a writer of these things for alpha2 (I can get it posted)
<pleia2> if we don't think it's too late for alpha1 I can post that too :)
<micahg> welcome back GridCube 
<GridCube> thank you
<micahg> GridCube: I was in the middle or conducting the meeting when you left
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> sorry
<GridCube> :/ did i miss something?
<micahg> GridCube: it's ok, I posted the noted to the mailing list, not much
<micahg> *notes
<GridCube> oh i don't have a mailing list list 
<GridCube> i mean im not in the mailing list list
 * micahg is digging up a URL
<micahg> GridCube: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-June/007814.html
<GridCube> oh :) thanks
<GridCube> micahg, i wonder, couldnt xubuntu have a first run welcome thing? like a link to an html on the desktop that people can double clic and read really basic stuff about the system? 
 * micahg thought that already exists
<GridCube> like a short faq?
<GridCube> no its not there, not easily visible tho
<GridCube> if you happen to install xfce you get the "tips" but is not enabled on xubuntu
<GridCube> and thats also really anoying and people just usually dissmiss it
<Unit193> micahg: Do you happen to know how many people are on the list?
<micahg> Unit193: no, sorry, I am not a list admin
<micahg> GridCube: maybe write an e-mail to the xubuntu-devel list with a proposal?
<Unit193> Thanks
<GridCube> mmm ok i will ask charlie next time i see him
<xrdodrx> GridCube, I think that'd be better accessible from the menu, like how ubuntu used to do it
<xrdodrx> "About Xubuntu"
<xrdodrx> right now we've got About Xfce
<xrdodrx> and of course these entries could both be hidden in the usual way
<GridCube> probably, but the "about xfce" just gives licences and not a guide to do simple tasks
<xrdodrx> well no one said we had to do it the same way ;)
<GridCube> like for example saying to people, "How do i enable mp3? you install gstreamer" "how to compiz? see this site" etc
<GridCube> something like read me
<xrdodrx> I don't think that stuff is basic at all, especially the second one
<GridCube> XD yeah well
<GridCube> but its an usual question
<GridCube> for xfce4.8 you have to have a "how do i move panels? you unlock them" XD
<xrdodrx> for most OS, the about page outlines the programs installed by default and contains links to further documentation
<GridCube> mmm yes
<xrdodrx> I don't think it's smart to have the about page immediately tell you how to enable compiz or mp3 support
<xrdodrx> especially since mp3 is a non-free technology, that shouldn't be the first thing in our about page :)
<xrdodrx> just my ideas
<GridCube> thats probably why i said  "a first run welcome thing" stuff like, "you need more help, go to #xubuntu"
<xrdodrx> IRC isn't very welcoming to newcomers,, it can be quite confusing for those who've never used it
<GridCube> well, forums them
<GridCube> something to tell them they are not alone
<xrdodrx> oh, I know what you mean
<GridCube> its frigthening changing an operative system
<xrdodrx> but an OS's about page is usually really basic and outlines the OS's features and programs, maybe a better help system can help with this, but I don't know how this fits into the oneiric development schedule
<GridCube> and having something right there saying "hey you are welcome" 
<GridCube> mmm yes i see
<GridCube> i never imagined nothing that complex tho
<GridCube> just something like, for example, the firefox first run page?
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> I think I 'm here. I got about 30 seconds lag today
<charlie-tca> micahg: thanks for chairing the meeting. I was setting up Oneiric yesterday
 * charlie-tca forgot about the time change for the meeting, too, but that is not my excuse.
<DarkEra> Good morning charlie-tca, yep you're here :)
<DarkEra> Strange to say good morning... its afternoon over here....
<charlie-tca> Well, Good afternoon, then!
<DarkEra> thanks :-)
<charlie-tca> bbl
<micahg> charlie-tca: you're welcome, glad all is ok
<charlie-tca> not *all* okay
<charlie-tca> I can't quite get oneiric to start email or news online
<charlie-tca> and my email seems severely broken
<charlie-tca> and Users and Groups fails, too
<charlie-tca> can't add new users or groups with the GUI
<micahg> hmmm, well, the new network manager API breaks backwards compatability, I wouldn't be surprised if there were issues, but Firefox seems to work fine
<charlie-tca> but in general, yes, I didn't mean to scare you. 
<charlie-tca> things are going fine, me.
<charlie-tca> things are going fine, for me.
<charlie-tca> I installed fresh
<micahg> hmmm, and you're using thunderbird or something else?
<charlie-tca> claws-mail. Have to try Thunderbird and see how it works in Oneiric
<micahg> charlie-tca: ah, claws-mail needs a merge, I can try to take care of that this week if barry doesn't want to do it
<micahg> oh, wait, no i can't, over the weekend then :)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, it seems kind of broken
<ochosi> micahg: btw, *if* you decide to take care of claws, what would be really nice would be to activate indicator support
<GridCube> hello charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> GridCube: Hello
<charlie-tca> any signs of drc today?
<GridCube> don't know
<GridCube> just singed in today
<ochosi> micahg: i mean bug 715257
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 715257 in claws-mail-extra-plugins (Ubuntu) "multi-notification plugin indicator support disabled and broken" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/715257
<charlie-tca> I want to know what is happening to our daily testing?
<charlie-tca> No one showed up at the meeting yesterday for testing either.
<charlie-tca> I think we are seeing things broken due to gtk3. some of the errors are that applications are not able to use gtk2 and gtk3 at the same time.
<micahg> ochosi: that's a separate source :)
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I would prefer a bigger font than droid gives us
<charlie-tca> or at least a bigger size than we are defaulting to
<charlie-tca> or something... The fonts are too small to read, I guess is my complaint.
<charlie-tca> or, my eyes are too old to read the font in the size we are using, maybve.
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Did you get my msg? I wasn't really able to be at the meeting, but I made a comment after
<charlie-tca> no, not yet
<charlie-tca> I sort of lost my .org address temporarily, and just got it back
<charlie-tca> I will go see if there are emails to release to the ML, I guess
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I was talking about memoserv msg
<charlie-tca> Oh, got it
<charlie-tca> yes, thanks for checking it
<Unit193> You were not on and I wasn't sure if I would remember :P
<Unit193> No problem! Isn't that what I'm supposed to be doing? 
<charlie-tca> I don't check for those
<charlie-tca> it is fine to do that, I will have to check to see if there any 
<charlie-tca> Otherwise, we mail the xubuntu-devel ML with issues
<Unit193> I wasn't sure if it would PM you when you got on, or if it would "notice" you
<charlie-tca> It doesn't seem to PM me. It was a notice but since all notices are a separate tab, I don't look at them when logging in. It notices all the log in buttetins, which I don't need to see everytime.
<charlie-tca> oh, we never do a login sound for Xubuntu
<astraljava> Hi charlie-tca! I guess I somehow sorta kinda promised I would be helping out with testing. *grin*
<astraljava> in the last night's meeting, I mean
<charlie-tca> Really?
<charlie-tca> that's great!
<Unit193> It was on the list...
<astraljava> Hehe. Yeah. :)
<charlie-tca> We can always use more testers
<astraljava> I thought as much.
<charlie-tca> Are you able to test daily or milestones?
<astraljava> Well at the moment I should be able to do dailies as well.
<charlie-tca> Unit193: really? I guess I have to go update that list, then. 
<charlie-tca> astraljava: welcome to testing Xubuntu1
<astraljava> Thanks! :)
<charlie-tca> We have some information at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
<charlie-tca> We would like to run the short test daily, but at the least, we run an install
<astraljava> Yeah I'm actually using that page as a reference for Ubuntu Studio testing procedure enhancements.
<charlie-tca> The main thing at this point in the cycle is install, update, restart, shutdown
<charlie-tca> preasure ****
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu Studio wants up to date docs, and they want mine up to date to help them update theirs :-)
<astraljava> Exactly. :D No pressure or anything, but... ;D
<charlie-tca> lol
<astraljava> Nah, I'm here to help as well.
<charlie-tca> We can all use help
<astraljava> Most definitely. I hear you're running under quite a lot of stress.
<astraljava> If I can ease some of that, would be awesome.
<charlie-tca> Help with testing is awesome
<charlie-tca> drc was organizing it some for us. We think we can test all the images twice a week or so
<astraljava> I have several boxen here that I can use, I just first need to figure out which of them can boot from a USB stick, that would help a lot.
<charlie-tca> yeah, I guess. I am one of the users with "older" systems. I can't boot from usb
<micahg> charlie-tca: will you be around this evening?
<charlie-tca> micahg: I can be, yes
<micahg> k, maybe we can chat a little bit then
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will be here then
<charlie-tca> You might have to ping me, but I will stay around
<micahg> k, don't worry if you can't, I'll catch you tomorrow
<astraljava> Crap, I chose alternate install iso. ;)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: what do you mean? droid works in pretty much any size in my xp
<charlie-tca> that's okay, we got both alternate and desktop images
<charlie-tca> ochosi: we start with a very tiny font size for droid, it can be increased, but the default is a 10, I think?
<charlie-tca> and droid has smaller letters than sans, for example, so 10 droid is about 8 or 9 sans
<charlie-tca> I am wondering if we shouldn't be starting at maybe 12 or 14 with it?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Actually, you don't. Not at least in the daily cdimage section.
<charlie-tca> huh?
<astraljava> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/20110606/
<charlie-tca> that's the alternate, desktop is http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<astraljava> HAHA!
<astraljava> Oh man.
<astraljava> I suck.
<charlie-tca> We will help you. Before you know it, you will be smart again
 * charlie-tca thinks that sounds wrong, but the intent was very nice :-)
<astraljava> I sincerely doubt that, but I like the sound of that. :D
<charlie-tca> ochosi: making these windows all the way to the screen bottom takes a lot of getting used to, too
<ochosi> charlie-tca: k, i won't be around much now, let's test this a bit more in the upcoming weeks
 * micahg is reminded of the Star Trek TNG episode "Samaritan Snare"
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> (actually i have a few busy weeks ahead of me)
<ochosi> charlie-tca: what would be great is something like a screenshot-comparison of the different font-sizes
<ochosi> that'd make it easy for everyone
<charlie-tca> I will make notes then, so we have something to start with
<ochosi> because DPI settings are also really crucial for that
<charlie-tca> I can try to do screenshots
<ochosi> different DPI settings, different font-size
<charlie-tca> Okay
<ochosi> that's actually a real problem with setting the default..
<charlie-tca> They reverted the DPI back to 96 now, so it should stay the same
<ochosi> because something in x (not sure what exactly) calculates the "optimum" dpi settings for your resolution
<charlie-tca> really?
<ochosi> otherwise the pixels look blurry
<cody-somerville> micahg, did you ping me?
<charlie-tca> I will try different things, then
<ochosi> yeah, thanks
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> LIke I say, it could be my eyes, too
<ochosi> or the resolution ;)
<charlie-tca> lol
<charlie-tca> again with the resolution wrong?
<micahg> cody-somerville: yesterday to see if you wanted to run the meeting in charlie-tca's absence
 * charlie-tca hides face again
<micahg> charlie-tca: no worries :)
<charlie-tca> Leafpad has print capability now. Mousepad is stalled unless jeromeg picks it up. 
<micahg> charlie-tca: jannis dented that nick might pick it up
<micahg> (mousepad)
<charlie-tca> Maybe I got the name wrong, I though I saw where jeromeg might. At least if one of them does, it will be good.
<astraljava> Well, the alternate worked okay.
<astraljava> Going to try the desktop now.
<charlie-tca> 32 or 64bit?
<astraljava> 32-bit
<charlie-tca> Great! Thanks for testing it
<Unit193> There goes my job...
<astraljava> Unit193: My humblest apologies. :D
<charlie-tca> you ain't getting off that easy
<Unit193> astraljava: Thanks!
<Unit193> I'm guessing I followed the short list too closely...
<charlie-tca> You get to try again tomorrow, Unit193 
<charlie-tca> Unit193: alternate manual install, desktop guided resize tomorrow, please.
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I did the alt cd last. I do it again? (It was whole disk)
<Unit193> Do you have things in mind you want me to test? or just mostly follow the short guide?
<charlie-tca> mostly follow the guide. Yup, want the test again, but this time instead of whole disk, manual partition
<charlie-tca> If you did the whole short test, just install, restart, update, restart, shutdown is good
<Unit193> Yes, boss!
<astraljava> Does xubuntu have update-manager, btw.?
<astraljava> I _could_ look it up, of course...
<charlie-tca> Got to know right away if the partitioning or boots or shutdowns fail on these. That will get them fixed quicker
<charlie-tca> yes, it does, astraljava 
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Okay, and it should have notified me of updates?
<charlie-tca> I forget to use it sometimes, but it is there. We do not insist on you being forced to use it immediately, though
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Cause I didn't even try since it didn't.
<charlie-tca> It should notify, after a few to several minutes
<astraljava> Right, okay.
<Unit193> apt-get is fine?
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> If you download updates while installing, it usually triggers update-manager quickly, otherwise, it can take it quite a while to trigger
<Unit193> I'll report back here or memo you, sound good?
<charlie-tca> sounds good, yes
<charlie-tca> hm, seems I will need to leave my xchat up, so I get these messages properly. 
<Unit193> Did you see the email about the guy that doesn't want LibreOffice? (I would like it included)
<charlie-tca> We won't add libreoffice as a default application, it is too big and slow
<Unit193> That works for me!
<astraljava> Damn, maverick's usb-creator crashes while trying to create an install disk from the desktop iso
<charlie-tca> try unetbootin, it works better for me
<astraljava> Okay, will do.
<charlie-tca> Unit193: answered that email
<charlie-tca> Unit193: I don't what day the image he tried was, I installed Oneiric this weekend and am using it now. LibreOffice is not installed
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I'm getting that bloody 2,499 will be freed again...
<Unit193> I didn't think I saw that when I booted it...
<charlie-tca> oh, updates?
<charlie-tca> What is it removing?
<astraljava> Hmm... I thought I picked oneiric iso, as I don't even have a natty iso for xubuntu on my system.
<astraljava> But it said "You are installing the latest, 11.04 of Xubuntu"
<astraljava> ...or something...
<astraljava> Hmm... shouldn't update-manager ask for password when you're doing a check, too? Similar to `sudo apt-get update'?
<astraljava> Well, desktop install for 32-bit seems to work very well too. Nothing to update, so cannot verify that part.
<charlie-tca> no, password only asks for password to do the updates themselves, usually
<charlie-tca> It might not have the wording updated yet, something for Unit193 to verify tomorrow, though.
<charlie-tca> astraljava: how many people you got in studio that will be testing for you?
<charlie-tca> oops, got to run
<astraljava> charlie-tca: I have no idea, so far.
<astraljava> Just got into this position last night. :)
<Unit193> So I need to check for "Installing 11.04"
<Unit193> charlie-tca: When you get back (To answer your question) http://paste.ubuntu.com/620327/
<astraljava> Unit193: Yeah, that's on one of the screens when using the desktop installer icon, when the actual installation procedure kicks in.
<Unit193> astraljava: I'm doing the alt install tomorrow (Depending on what charlie-tca wants, I may have to do both...)
<astraljava> Unit193: Okay cool, I'll be here to see how it goes for you at some point, my bro will come for an over-night, but I should have some time.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-07
<charlie-tca> astraljava: I was the entire Xubuntu testing team for two years
<SiDi> wait, what?
<SiDi> there is a team made of several people now?
<charlie-tca> Hello, SiDi 
<charlie-tca> got about three people plus myself now
 * SiDi thought charlie-tca was a computer cloud's outer world interface with a human communication plugin
 * charlie-tca seems to have a real testing team starting
<SiDi> nice
<SiDi> how many developers are there now on Xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> two or three
<charlie-tca> three, I think, might be highter
<charlie-tca> We are gaining!
<SiDi> three who write code? Oo
<charlie-tca> well, three who package?
<charlie-tca> We just keep trying... :-)
<SiDi> okey, thats still a nice improvement :)
<micahg> charlie-tca: almost ready, trying to get a USN out
<charlie-tca> Okay
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I'm doing alt guided resize install, restart, update, restart with a check of the install wording?
<charlie-tca> If you can, that would be great. If you are not comfortable with that, I will do one.
<Unit193> I was just putting it all in one line to make sure I got it all!
<charlie-tca> looks right to me
<Unit193> I had to do a manual resize on a real install
<charlie-tca> did it work?
<charlie-tca> It counts as a manual partitioning install
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, here
<charlie-tca> I'm here
<micahg> charlie-tca: k, so you wanted to talk to me about timelines?
<charlie-tca> I don't remember...
<charlie-tca> what timelines?
<micahg> charlie-tca: lightdm
<charlie-tca> yes
<charlie-tca> when will be able to seed it?
<charlie-tca> do we have to build the front-end?
<charlie-tca> when will it be ready to try something with css?
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, I need to talk to mr_pouit about that, when he wants to switch, we don't need to build anything to make the switch
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you around tonight?
<micahg> but I have been getting frequent crashes lately
<charlie-tca> oh, oh
<micahg> I'd almost like to wait until robert_ancell looks at my crash first
<charlie-tca> That would not be so good. Is it something Ubuntu is doing to it?
<micahg> yeah, I think it's lightdm itself
<charlie-tca> oh, it's like 2 am in France. mr_pouit is probably sleeping/resing
<charlie-tca> resting
<micahg> yeah
<micahg> will try him in the morning
<charlie-tca> I am ready to toss gdm. It is upgrading to gdm3, right?
<micahg> already is gdm3 I think
<micahg> oh ,no not yet...
<charlie-tca> I see no reason to fight with it again to make it work right for us
<charlie-tca> How hard is building the lightdm front going to be?
<micahg> yeah, it should drop quite a bit of the oversizedness as well
<charlie-tca> Maybe I will take a look, if it isn't in some language I can't figure out
<micahg> charlie-tca: idk, there's an example greeter in there, depending on how much customization you want will probably say how hard it'll be
<charlie-tca> I want it pretty, I want it be right, I want it to be usable mostly, though
<charlie-tca> I solved one of my claws-mail issues. I had a domain expire
<charlie-tca> Maybe tomorrow I will try to set up thunderbird. 
<charlie-tca> I heard it is not as hard as I seem to think it was for me to set up
<charlie-tca> As soon as mr_pouit gives us an okay, I am willing to push lightdm in. We can deal with a few crashes in it, can't we? 
<charlie-tca> Do the crashes block the login?
<micahg> no, they just kill X after a certain while :)
<micahg> or after a certain action
<charlie-tca> Oh, well. Normal stuff
<charlie-tca> Are you sure it is lightdm? I got those with natty, a lot, with kernel oops and panics
<charlie-tca> Soon as I finish setting this system up, I can add lightDM to it.
<micahg> yes, got an apport crash even :)4
<Unit193> charlie-tca: It was stable non-xubuntu
<charlie-tca> Oh, goody
<charlie-tca> Unit193: oh,
<charlie-tca> ooops
<charlie-tca> Unit193: then it can't count, huh?
<Unit193> 11.04
 * Unit193 is too lazy to read up...
<charlie-tca> That's okay.
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Would it be helpful to try an alt kernel with it?
<charlie-tca> just discussing with micahg about getting lightDM in. Seems to be crashing a little for him now, but I told him we handle it
<charlie-tca> with natty?
<Unit193> Onririx
<Unit193> ...close
<charlie-tca> it isn't the kernel doing it, that we know yet
<charlie-tca> I haven't had it running long enough to see if it will panic for me.
<Unit193> Helpful in general testing...
<charlie-tca> just discussing with micahg about getting lightDM in. Seems to be crashing a little for him now, but I told him we *can* handle it
<Unit193> Did you see the pastebin? And is LightDM themed?
<charlie-tca> what pastebin?
<charlie-tca> we can theme lightdm, we get to build a front-end for it specific to Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> I seem to have missed a pastebin. Do you have the url?
<Unit193> I'm asking if it's themed at all
<Unit193> *yet
<charlie-tca> Oh, I don't know. I don't have it running yet
<charlie-tca> micahg: Is lightDM got any theme yet?
<Unit193> Not asking you to help, just letting you know http://paste.ubuntu.com/620327/
<micahg> charlie-tca: well, instead of "themes", there are greeters
<micahg> lightdm-greeter-example-gtk, lightdm-greeter-example-vala-gtk, lightdm-greeter-example-python-gtk, lightdm-greeter-example-qt
<charlie-tca> Unit193: that is normal for the development releases. We will be seeing that all through the cycle.
<Unit193> charlie-tca: That's my Natty box
<charlie-tca> It looks like the answer to themes is a definite sortof
<charlie-tca> oh, sorry
<Unit193> (I started one week from release)
<charlie-tca> The updates will add/remove bytes from the hard drive, so that too is normal. It won't always be the same amounts, though
<Unit193> That's not the correct size (And it's hit the same number)
<charlie-tca> It's okay. Most of the numbers are just estimates, and depend somewhat on the sector sizes, drive sizes, and file sizes. 
<charlie-tca> I can't really explain it all, but it is straight in my head. I wouldn't worry about it.
<charlie-tca> I got three systems here, and the installed size always comes out different, sometimes by a few gigabytes, due to the way the drives are.
<Unit193> It's just really annoying...
<charlie-tca> yup
<Unit193> That's just running updates...
<charlie-tca> I don't read most of the numbers
<Unit193> It wouldn't help to test an install with an alt kernel?
<micahg> charlie-tca: so, the lightdm greeters support theming apparently
<charlie-tca> Great! so now all we have to do is get started with it :-)
<charlie-tca> Now I am more determined to get it in and working
<xrdodrx> LightDM can be themed with simple HTML and CSS :)
<xrdodrx> It's great, I really want it in the next Ubuntu
<xrdodrx> if doable in the schedule, of course
<charlie-tca> I don't think I can help getting it into Ubuntu
<xrdodrx> oh, xubuntu**
<xrdodrx> Sorry, charlie-tca . habit
<charlie-tca> we will have it in xubuntu as soon as we can get it added
<charlie-tca> Okay, time to see how bad I broke this now.
<micahg> hi mr_pouit, are you around?
<eee> hello everyone. Does anybody know how to set firewall up?
<Unit193> eee: This is the Xubuntu dev channel, questions really only go in the support channel ( #xubuntu )
<eee> ok
<mr_pouit> micahg: pong (feel free to handle the lightdm switch)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'm not a xubuntu-dev, so I can't access the seeds
<micahg> mr_pouit: and do you want me to work on the merges as well (I remember just asking about syncs)
<mr_pouit> oh, right, send me a mail then, so I don't forget to update the seeds when I'm around my gpg/ssh keys ;-) (this utc+2 evening)
<mr_pouit> or maybe it's more straightforward to propose a bzr branch merge on lp?
<mr_pouit> you can do what you prefer ;p
<mr_pouit> (and maybe you should be in xubuntu-dev already? ;-)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I could attempt that if you like, this would be  my first time modifying the seeds
<mr_pouit> it's not that difficult, you probably only need to touch /desktop, and s/gdm/lightdm/
<mr_pouit> micahg: for the merges, I've reviewed them quickly, let me put that in a wikipage, and after you can choose the ones you want to do (and we can discuss what to sync  or dpkg-vendorify)
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, I have holidays this week, so I probably won't get to much before sunday, I'll propose a merge for the seed now though
<micahg> mr_pouit: I'm going to add the GTK example greeter for the moment, that's the one I've been using and seems to have deps that match xfce
<micahg> mr_pouit: merge proposed
<micahg> and they're jump to gdm 3.0, so the seed change is just in time :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: xubuntu-artwork also needs to not recommend xubuntu-gdm-theme or it will get pulled in, can I just upload a new version with that change or is there a branch somewhere
<micahg> s/it/gdm/
<mr_pouit> micahg: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Oneiric/DeltaReviewAndCleanup for the merge reviews
<mr_pouit> a quick review I did last week, so maybe not completely up to date
<mr_pouit> micahg: for xubuntu-artwork, it's https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/oneiric (feel free to completely drop xubuntu-gdm-theme from the package, it's hacky, ugly, and we'll introduce xubuntu-lightdm-theme later I guess)
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, thanks, I'll propose a merge for that as well, do you want me to upload based on the merge proposal?
<micahg> actually, I'm really tired, so I'll just make the proposal
<mr_pouit> lp:~micahg/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.oneiric looks fine, thanks!
<micahg> mr_pouit: cool, my first seed change :)
<mr_pouit> grbml stupid and slow wiki
<mr_pouit> I can't even find the page where are my user prefs
<micahg> mr_pouit: BTW, merge proposed for artwork as well, I left the files intact, and just modified debian/*
<micahg> mr_pouit: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Oneiric/DeltaReviewAndCleanup?action=userprefs
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, heading to sleep now, will review your wiki page over the weekend, have a good week!
<mr_pouit> aha, the french userprefs page has been spammed, that's why I can't access my prefs ;D
<mr_pouit> micahg: thanks, have a good vacation ;-)
<micahg> mr_pouit: thanks
<charlie-tca> Good morning / Good afternoon
<GridCube> good morning
<GridCube> cold morning tho
<charlie-tca> rainy here
<charlie-tca> Now got Oneiric with lightdm running.
<GridCube> today my a tecnich from my isp came :D no my internets went from 20kbs to 300kbs
<charlie-tca> If I go away, well... it might have crashed :-)
<charlie-tca> wOw!
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> that must be really nice, huh?
<GridCube> it should be at 3000kbs thi
<GridCube> tho
<GridCube> yes i can see youtubes
<charlie-tca> can't please some people... ;-)
<GridCube> thats a huge success
<charlie-tca> I would like to be faster than my average 157kBps here
<charlie-tca> and I have to share that with 4 computers
<GridCube> he
<GridCube> once i live a whole month at 20kbs
<charlie-tca> haha
<charlie-tca> I been living with something real close to that for a year now
<GridCube> gods it was like dialup era
<charlie-tca> I know
<astraljava> 2011-06-07 18:08:39 (2.68 MB/s) - `100Mnull' saved [104857600]
<astraljava> I apoligize, I just had to.
<astraljava> apologize*
<ablomen> astraljava, 17:51:43 (7.89 MB/s) - `debian-6.0.1a-i386-netinst.iso' saved [198064128/198064128] << amateur :P
<astraljava> ablomen: Grrr.
<astraljava> So, Unit193 doing the 32-bit tests today?
<charlie-tca> Can not change permissions or owner from the GUI in Oneiric
<charlie-tca> Maybe that is related to Users and Groups being broken?
<astraljava> Sounds like it, but I can't be sure since I always do that via CLI.
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, for anything like changing owner/group/permissions, it requires a restart now
<GridCube> i know this might not be something ubuntu does, it sound more like something firefox does, but if you install firefox on windows you get installed, among the embebed browsers a searh on the RAE (Real Academia EspaÃ±ola) Dictionary, but if you install firefox on linux you dont get the dictionary unless you particularly install the search plugin
<charlie-tca> Sounds like a spanish specific install ?
<GridCube> probably
<charlie-tca> I think firefox doesn't install any dictionary by default. I don't know why, but it might be worth a bug at mozilla
<GridCube> i mean in windows it does
<GridCube> but then firefox does not come pre-installed
<charlie-tca> Maybe even file a wishlist bug in launchpad for Ubuntu to install a dictionary by default?
<GridCube> probably, for the localization rigth
<charlie-tca> right. Windows is pretty specific on apps and proprietary everything
<GridCube> you choose a language and it downloads the firefox search addon
<GridCube> if available of course
<GridCube> just saying is something that calls my attention when i install firefox on ubuntu
<GridCube> even i do a fresh install
<charlie-tca> that's a good wishlist bug for us
<charlie-tca> It gets people thinking about why we aren't doing it.
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> ok so i add up a wishlist bug
<GridCube> (not now, now i have to end my paper, NO DISTRACTIONS)
<charlie-tca> karma... :-)
<micahg> charlie-tca: firefox uses the system dictionary
<charlie-tca> What if you did not install a system dictionary?
<charlie-tca> dict is not a default for us, neither is dictd
<micahg> charlie-tca: it uses hunspell
<GridCube> i'm not talking about the "while you write" dictionary
<GridCube> im talking about the search box, the one you can choose to have google or ask or whatever, 
<GridCube> in a fresh install of ff on windows one of the search engines, is the drae
<Unit193> astraljava: Correct
<astraljava> Unit193: Cool, I'll kick back and watch the game, then. :D
<charlie-tca> micahg: I have lightDM crashing every login now
<micahg> charlie-tca: cool :)
<micahg> do you have a test case or is it random>
<charlie-tca> test case = login
<micahg> charlie-tca: oh wow!, well should mr_pouit not change the seed?
<charlie-tca> it is every time, very consistent
<micahg> charlie-tca: is this a clean install?
<charlie-tca> Let's get it in the seed
<micahg> k
<charlie-tca> no, it is no longer clean
<micahg> he said he'll try to do that tonight
<charlie-tca> It doesn't seem to affect anything, I just get a crash report each login
<micahg> charlie-tca: can you enable apport to see if you can get a crash that's reportable?
<micahg> oh cool
<micahg> charlie-tca: can you file on LP for retrace please? robert_ancell said he'd look at mine today
<charlie-tca> Want me to report it next crash, or just report the crash I have in /var/crash
<charlie-tca> sure
<micahg> charlie-tca: either should be fine, I didn't have a reproducer, so I reported 2
<charlie-tca> I will file one
<charlie-tca> The more users we have using lightDM, the better the reports will get and the easier to get things fixed.
<charlie-tca> fingers crossed now
<charlie-tca> Please wait while bug data is processed. This page will refresh every 10 seconds until processing is complete.
<charlie-tca> two minutes and counting
<charlie-tca> hm, I don't think something is working
<charlie-tca> still hasn't got through to launchpad
<Unit193> I'll install it after I'm done "testing"
<charlie-tca> micahg: bug 794215 has a coredump attached
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 794215 could not be found
<micahg> charlie-tca: cool, thanks
<charlie-tca> np]
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> reporting issue with users and groups too
<micahg> charlie-tca: robert_ancell put out a call for testing, so I think we'll get prompt feedback
<charlie-tca> cool
<charlie-tca> hm, my day for coredumps
<charlie-tca> anyone heard from drc the last few days?
<DarkEra> charlie-tca, dunno about today but if i'm not mistaken he was around yesterday and sunday
<Unit193> I found the xubuntu-testers on LP, shouldn't they all be testing Xubuntu? :P
<charlie-tca> I must have missed him, then. I haven't seen him since about Friday or saturday
<charlie-tca> Unit193: yes, but some will be testing an installed version only, some will test milestones, and some will test periodically
<Unit193> Ah, ok!
<charlie-tca> and some will not upgrade to oneiric yet, but will be upgrading by alpha3
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : nautilus is installing as part of todays Oneiric updates
<charlie-tca> Unit193: Oneiric 64bit desktop image fails to install today from the desktop
<Unit193> OK! I test 32buit anyway!
<charlie-tca> Unit193: 32bit installations work today?
<micahg> charlie-tca: awesome :)
<charlie-tca> micahg: my thought exactly. It even opens on login!
<charlie-tca> at least it is hard to miss :-)
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I had some issues with the install I was trying to do (User error) And I don't have the resize option
<charlie-tca> You have to have an existing full disk install to get the resize option
<micahg> charlie-tca: it's gdm -> gnome-settings-daemon -> nautilus-data -> nautilus
<charlie-tca> Can we get gdm replaced by lightDM? (seems like an echo in here)
<micahg> charlie-tca: mr_pouit has the merge proposal from me, hopefully he'll be able to get to it tonight
<charlie-tca> That would be great!
<charlie-tca> thankis
<charlie-tca> thanks, micahg 
<micahg> well, at least the CDs are down a little in size from yesterday
<charlie-tca> I don't track sizes so good, either they fit a cd-r or they do not fit a cd-r
<micahg> I think we're going to not fit on a cd-r until close to alpha 3
<charlie-tca> ouch
<micahg> well, let's see how much dropping gdm gets us
<charlie-tca> what if we throw out all the languages except english?
<micahg> that + s/gdm/lightdm would probably do it, but why bother at this point?
<micahg> charlie-tca: are you interested in seeding lightning and having calendar support out of the box in Thunderbird?
<charlie-tca> so we an alpha2 that fits a cd, and people will then download and try it?
<charlie-tca> A lot of xubuntu users can't do USB installs
<micahg> charlie-tca: ah, ok we can try to get it down to 720MB for alpha2, maybe lower
<charlie-tca> lightning would be great if we can do it
<charlie-tca> 720 don't fit a cd-r
<charlie-tca> where do you b
<micahg> well, overburning it bies :)
<charlie-tca> where do you buy one that size?
<micahg> does
<micahg> anyways, let's just see where we are at the end of the week
<charlie-tca> Last I tried, xfburn said anything bigger than 703 will not be done
<charlie-tca> agreed, waiting patiently, sort of
<micahg> xfburn needs some help :), but yeah, I think the cutoff that Ubuntu will be enforcing is 703
<GridCube> D: i did zsync whit the iso file and it says its updated, but today erlier, when i killed the download, it said that it had a 38% difference D:
<GridCube> how do i force a checksum
<charlie-tca> zsync does an automatic md5 check
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> it said so
<charlie-tca> You can do a manual md5 check using 
<charlie-tca>  md5sum imagename.iso
<charlie-tca> grab the md5sum from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
<charlie-tca> If it says it is correct, you are up to date
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> i don't see a md5 for alternate
<GridCube> i dont even see an iso for alternate
<GridCube> thats why then
<GridCube> somehow the alternate iso is not available
<charlie-tca> look in http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/
<charlie-tca> for the alternate image
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> thats correct then
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> micahg: I think we should install enigmail, too, for those without the knowledge to install it themselves.
<charlie-tca> but, we will soon run ourselves in the ground to do that kind of thing
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, it's fine with me, let's see how we're doing on space at the end of the week though :)
<Unit193> So I installed another OS just so I could do my test -_-
<charlie-tca> exactly, micahg 
<charlie-tca> take it a day or week at a time
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu 64bit desktop installed from cd menu works
<charlie-tca> going fight with moinmoin desktop edition and python in oneiric now. 
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-08
<Unit193> It's been hung at Keyboard config for a very long time...
<charlie-tca> Then it broke
<charlie-tca> force restart or shutdown
<Unit193> Restarting the install won't help?
<charlie-tca> not that I recall. I think if you don't restart, it will hang again
<charlie-tca> isn't it in VBox?
<charlie-tca> click the close button, check "power down"
<Unit193> Bad wording... The alt cd is borked? Or just user/luck error?
<charlie-tca> bad luck. I would try the cd again, to verify it wasn't just a one-time glitch
<Unit193> charlie-tca still isn't back yet...
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> We broke the live cd's today
<charlie-tca> lightDM won't quite work yet with the live desktop login
<charlie-tca> kernel panic
<charlie-tca> wheeee!
<charlie-tca> Unit193: did you see the bit about the live cd today?
<charlie-tca> live cd sessions are bad. There is no xubuntu session, even though it is a choice. It always goes to xfce session. We can choose the user, choose the session, then click login.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: When you have time, I want to learn how to pull the lightdm stuff and add / fix it for us and put it where you can add it back.
<charlie-tca> Where are the desktop wallpapers in Xubuntu?
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I pushed the changes from micahg this morning
<mr_pouit> so lightdm should already be there, and no gdm anymore
<mr_pouit> desktop wallpapers are in /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops I think
<mr_pouit> sometimes /usr/share/backgrounds, it depends
<astraljava> Hi guys, my turn to do the 32-bit tests?
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: yes, lightdm is there, but we have to now set it up to auto-login and run a xubuntu session. 
<charlie-tca> It only runs an xfce session now
<charlie-tca> a
<charlie-tca> astraljava: sure, can you do 64bit alternate, manual partitioning today?
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Unfortunately not, as I only have one hard disk on my only 64-bit machine. :(
<charlie-tca> If you saw my email to xubuntu-devel, you can try the 32bit whole disk install
<charlie-tca> with live cd
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Well, unless I do it virtually.
<charlie-tca> but it is a bit of a hassel using the live cd today.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Sorry, I forgot to sign up for the mailing lists. Will do it now.
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> want me to send it to ubuntustudio-devel ml?
<charlie-tca> or what is it called?
<charlie-tca> If i join yours, I can send the messages to both that applky
<charlie-tca> apply, and you don't all have to subscribe to our ML
<astraljava> charlie-tca: That's alright, I can check up the archives.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: I did it already. :)
<charlie-tca> great
<charlie-tca> I will catch the 64bit tests then
<astraljava> Okay then. :)
<astraljava> Gah! Must get a new system. This AMD64 3000+ almost dies while creating the usb boot stick. :-/
<charlie-tca> heh, and mine is only an AMD64 2200
<astraljava> load average: 6.13, 5.18, 2.99
<charlie-tca> That's high
<charlie-tca> load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.05
<astraljava> Yep, that's what it's normally for me too. This was during the operation.
<charlie-tca> with the main system running, firefox with 27 open tabs, xchat, geany, and a VBox machine
<charlie-tca> I have never been able to get the load average above 1.5 even when I get three VBox machines installing at one time
<astraljava> Almost similarly to mine, except switch firefox to chrome, xchat to 5 irssi-screen-ssh sessions and 1 centerim-screen-ssh and 1 mutt-ssh session. What does geany do?
<charlie-tca> oh, I forget those ssh-fuse mounts completely. I mount 8 folders with it
<astraljava> Yeah, either there's something seriously wrong with the usb bus, or there's a bug somewhere.
<charlie-tca> geany is an editor, much more advanced than mousepad, and less gnome then gedit
<astraljava> Ahh... that's right.
<charlie-tca> I am learning how to use it.
<charlie-tca> it is probably way more than I need, but since it works at least as good as gedit for me, I will learn
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: thanks for the pointer on the wallpaper. 
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Good to check other editors every once in a while, even though not ending up using them regularly, might pick up on some cool tricks.
<astraljava> live doesn't seem to take me to the desktop, just shows the background image with a mouse pointer. Will do a reboot.
<charlie-tca> I got a login at least. then it does go to the desktop for me
<charlie-tca> You remembered to pick a session?
<astraljava> Ahhh... sorry, was misleading. I did get the login too.
<astraljava> Err... sorry, I must have taken the "Install Xubuntu" option.
<charlie-tca> that fails today
<astraljava> I'll try again with "Try Xubuntu without installing" option now.
<charlie-tca> although it does go to the login screen for some reason
<astraljava> Right, yeah that's weird.
<charlie-tca> and you can not restart from there, either
<charlie-tca> probably have to do the power off thing
<charlie-tca> Maybe I should be doing my changes in VBox instead of my live system. It keeps breaking it.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Nah, VT2 worked, did `sudo reboot'. However, that option gives me the same thing as the former.
<charlie-tca> wait and try again tomorrow, then. 
<charlie-tca> I will try here and see what I get
<charlie-tca> Are you on hardware or VBox?
<charlie-tca> astraljava: which background image? xubuntu wallpaper or Ubuntu login?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I got it all
<charlie-tca> all? the desktop?
<Unit193> LightDM worked for me yesterday...
<Unit193> All the info
<charlie-tca> I got that. Today we threw lightdm as default login manager, completely replaced GDM. 
<charlie-tca> It is much more fun now ;-)
<charlie-tca> Unit193: see my email today to the xubuntu-devel ML
<knome> pleia2, ?
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Read it. Manual install works but seed doesn't?
<charlie-tca> no, autologin fails
<charlie-tca> you have manually log in to get the desktop
<charlie-tca> and if you don't it exactly the way I outlined, it fails
<Unit193> I understand this. I was asking something else...
<charlie-tca> What do you mean seed doesn't?
<charlie-tca> expand please 
<Unit193> You removed GDM on the CD for today and added LightDM. I installed LightDM yesterday (In VM, apt-get) and it seemed to work, what's different?
<charlie-tca> Oh, it is there by default now. You no longer have GDM at all
<charlie-tca> It works, but it doesn't autolog
<charlie-tca> It does not automatically go the live desktop now
<charlie-tca> but astraljava was not even able to get to the desktop
<astraljava> charlie-tca: This is hardware. It's the purple-ish with some reflections etc.
<charlie-tca> That's the lightdm background
<charlie-tca> I get through that to the Xfce session desktop in VBox, will have to try in hardware.
<charlie-tca> It suspect an issue with the video card/video buffer, but we will give it a day or two to settle down
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Alright then.
<astraljava> I will try to debug my sound card issue then. :)
<charlie-tca> one of those, too? ;-(
<astraljava> Which just resolved itself.
<astraljava> And again, I have no idea why, how, and what to do to reproduce the solution.
<charlie-tca> doesn't that make debugging harder?
<astraljava> Sorta does.
<astraljava> It's the ICE958 S/PDIF issue. Whenever I use digital in, the master clock will get stuck on S/PDIF, and I cannot use other audio applications for playback.
<astraljava> The first time when it happened on Natty I was able to get it back by tweaking alsamixer to all possible positions, but now the second time I was unable to.
<charlie-tca> weird
<astraljava> Someone told me to get some other input, which at first didn't make any difference.
<astraljava> Now, it just suddenly decided "Oh yay, I think he wants me to do something else today!"
<astraljava> And suddenly, it's possible again.
<charlie-tca> heh
<charlie-tca> I hate those type of things
<charlie-tca> It just makes it so much harder to solve when it does happen again
<astraljava> Exactly.
<astraljava> Well, I will have to use this machine for recording only once I get another multimedia machine for living room stereos.
<charlie-tca> That'll teach it to behave
<astraljava> Yep. :)
<astraljava> Though, to be honest, I do need to upgrade this one anyway, too. Might get another sound card as well.
<charlie-tca> finally, I got my computer to work again
<Unit193> Congrats! How is Oneiric? Did I need to do any testing? (With the failing that is)
<charlie-tca> Not unless you really want to fight with it
<charlie-tca> Testing at this stage requires knowing how to fix what breaks, since you can't really access anything when it breaks.
<charlie-tca> That is all I been doing for two hours, trying to get Oneiric to login again
<charlie-tca> and yes, it is lightDM
<Unit193> I had it working yesterday...
<charlie-tca> yeah, that was then
<Unit193> I understand things break from day to day
<charlie-tca> We try to change a lot of stuff daily, to see if it will keep working
<charlie-tca> Probably doesn't help that I modified the lightdm files, too
<charlie-tca> Unit193: are you using lightdm now?
<Unit193> Not on the main computer...
<charlie-tca> aw, com'n
<charlie-tca> what fun is testing if it doesn't break the main computer?
<Unit193> I already have issues with Natty on it... (Have to randomly reboot it because of screen lockups!)
<charlie-tca> Oh, yeah, testing Oneiric does require a backup machine, too. When the main system really won't work, you use the backup system
<charlie-tca> that's gonna get worse, too. I read the ati driver will have to be 915 or higher now
<charlie-tca> also trying to stay with nvidia 04 and above, if possible, for best results.
<charlie-tca> no, intel has to -915 now
<charlie-tca> Can't even file bugs for less then that in launchpad
<Unit193> That's crap
<charlie-tca> ATI hasn't been determined yet, I guess. It has to use radeon or fglrx
<charlie-tca> no, that's progress
<charlie-tca> Intel dropped support for less than -915 almost a year ago
<Unit193> But you should dump working computers just because they are old?
<charlie-tca> no, you should find something that works on them, if possible.
<Unit193> product: 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE Chipset Integrated Graphics Device |  configuration: driver=i915 latency=0
<charlie-tca> I still got a working 386 here
<Unit193> If I read that correct, I'll be fine?
<charlie-tca> That makes it. -915 
<Unit193> Sweet! I just did all updates and I still get the normal Xubuntu session! (Updated from yesterday when I installed LightDM)
<charlie-tca> that's the way it should work!
<charlie-tca> Now to make the live cd do that...
<iHaku> Do what, exactly?
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-09
<charlie-tca> login
<charlie-tca> with an Xubuntu session instead of a Xfce session
<iHaku> Ah, thanks.
<cody-somerville> :S
<cody-somerville> Xorg is currently using 2.0GiB on my system.
<charlie-tca> yes, natty, right?
<charlie-tca> Ubuntu been trying to fix that issue
<charlie-tca> It is not limited to Ubuntu/Xubuntu either. It has been seen in Fedora and something else.
<ochosi> hey everyone, check out phoronix's power consumption test (no surprises in the result): http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=uxklbuntu_power&num=1
<ochosi> they're using xubuntu for the screenshot, obviously it's the most beautiful *buntu ;)
<charlie-tca> Good morning / Good afternoon
<ochosi> hey everyone, check out phoronix's power consumption test (no  surprises in the result): 
<ochosi> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=uxklbuntu_power&num=1
<ochosi> s/everyone/charlie-tca :)
<ochosi> it's just nice to see they use xubuntu for the screenshot
<charlie-tca> Certainly is. 
<charlie-tca> hm, I have lost all sound and my sound card in oneiric. It seems to have gone with the path and locale settings
<charlie-tca> yup, they are missing too
<charlie-tca> ochosi: theming for lightdm is pretty easy, from what I see. I just copied the gnome example file, added the xubuntu wallpaper, and changed the name in /etc/lightdm.conf
<charlie-tca> I now have the same background as gdm
<ochosi> mhm, i think that'll be a lot more fun than gdm
<ochosi> still guess i won't start testing/using/developing in oneiric before at least another alpha release
<charlie-tca> I wouldn't suggest it, either. It seems broken in a lot of places
<charlie-tca> but, I do have it here
<charlie-tca> and "silence is NOT golden", especially when you have no sounds at all
<charlie-tca> OTOH, opportunity to test the accessibility for the deaf, huh?
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> We are still pulling nautilus on the live cd
<charlie-tca> 64bit desktop install run the desktop did not go to the login screen today
<GridCube> can i ask why are you pulling nautilus?
<Unit193> It's something they have to fix that Ubuntu did <_<
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> but i don't understand, it might be my ignorance of the word pulling...
<Unit193> I would think, still being pulled onto the cd/xubuntu-desktop
<Unit193> How many Xubuntu devs are there?
<charlie-tca> How do I know?
<charlie-tca> um, three or four, for sure
<charlie-tca> Unit193: you do mean actual coders/packagers, right?
<charlie-tca> I don't really hear any alerts today. My sound card disappeared when the path and /etc/environmentq
<charlie-tca> I don't really hear any alerts today. My sound card disappeared when the path and /etc/environment quit
<charlie-tca> Unit193, GridCube, astraljava : will this help us with daily testing?
<charlie-tca> https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AucFSttyWCevdGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc&hl=en_US&authkey=CP282scF
<Unit193> That will do! Thanks! Daily-live or alt? Need any tests?
<GridCube> sure :)
<GridCube> i mean you know, the simple test is to install, update, reboot, internet, reboot > pass/fail ? 
<charlie-tca> exactly
<charlie-tca> I just need something that says when we do them, right?
<Unit193> I normally have (useless) notes on the install, are they at all helpful?
<charlie-tca> sometimes
<charlie-tca> They can be put in there too, if you want
<charlie-tca> You save like normal, just file/save
<charlie-tca> It is a normal spreadsheet, just on-line
<GridCube> it should have a tester name on each line
<charlie-tca> I still have to add the checkmarks for each day, but that is the basics of it
<charlie-tca> GridCube: but I don't know the testers names always
<GridCube> it shoud have a column that says Tester Name, :P
<GridCube> so we can fill it
<Unit193> Just use your nick
<charlie-tca> okay, I can add one
<charlie-tca> I was going to put name instead of pass, but I also wanted to know if it passed or failed
<charlie-tca> so, we want more than one line per day, too? In case two or three do the same test?
<GridCube> yes i think that would be a good idea
<charlie-tca> it's getting bigger... ;-)
<GridCube> XD
<Unit193> Are you going to assign people? Or will naother person do that?
<GridCube> :P now that your at it, you could add milestones indicators XD
<charlie-tca> no, you pick your test if you want to do one
<charlie-tca> huh?
<charlie-tca> milestones? you mean for the days we do milestone testing?
<charlie-tca> yes
<GridCube> you know it says just days, not where the milestones happen
<charlie-tca> I will add them
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> awesome
<charlie-tca> Unit193: volunteers, right? Hopefully, you volunteer to do the testing and are responsible enough to carry through on it.
<Unit193> It's kinda nice to know that you still need it or if you need anything else tested (But if it works...)
<charlie-tca> if it has a check in the day, and no PASS/FAIL, it needs doing
<charlie-tca> probably use X instead of check, but you get the idea
<GridCube> a red X
<charlie-tca> Okay, a red X
<charlie-tca> anyway, it is only a couple of lines to scroll through
<GridCube> or more easily just paint the cell red XD
 * GridCube is an obsesive of spreadsheet desing XD
<charlie-tca> if I paint the cell, will the reporter have to change it back to black?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> good point
<charlie-tca> Unless I can do it with a formula, along the lines of if it is X do
<charlie-tca> and then when it is overwritten, it will go back to normal again
<GridCube> but its kinda easy, you could put a small how to on the top saying (white colored cells are yet not tested, paint them green if passed, red if failed) XD 
<GridCube> yeah, unesesarily complex
<charlie-tca> It will come with time. I will see if I can write the formula to do all of it, and protect it
<charlie-tca> Of course, you are limited to the lines per day, either. Anyone can add a line to the chart
<Unit193> Would a pastebin with notes be best? (Or should I just drop them?)
<charlie-tca> If they are important, why not send the to ML?
<charlie-tca> subject: testing on 2011-06-09; 32bit notes
<charlie-tca> or whatever it concerns
<Unit193> I'll drop them :P
<Unit193> None of mine have been that important
<charlie-tca> I keep some notes myself, since I almost never file bugs the first failure
<charlie-tca> got to go unlock the car
<Unit193> 2011-06-05.log:18:41 drc (~drc@unaffiliated/drc) has quit (Quit: drc) That's the last one from my logs. Anyone know what might be going on?
<charlie-tca> Haven't seen him all week
<charlie-tca> Will send an email out tomorrow, to see what happened to drc
<knome> didn't he send a mail today/yesterday or sth?
<GridCube> sith?
<knome> sth=something
<GridCube> hehehe XD charlie-tca editing his spreadsheet
<charlie-tca> not that I have seen
<charlie-tca> GridCube: it's working too
<charlie-tca> Done for now
<charlie-tca> Going try to do something outside now.
<GridCube> :D
<astraljava> charlie-tca: It most certainly will. Cool, thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-10
<plantoschka> are there any plans to use systemd as default in ubuntu? or will canonical use their own upstart?
<micahg> plantoschka: upstart will remain the default through 12.04
<plantoschka> ok, thanks :)
<charlie-tca> Good morning / Good afternoon
<charlie-tca> sound is back! 
<charlie-tca> Tests to run today - https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AucFSttyWCevdGZSenZqRS04eE9LYnBwSWtUM0NJRXc&hl=en_US&authkey=CP282scF#gid=0
<charlie-tca> http://pad.lv/795575
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 795575 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu-session unavailable for Oneiric" [High,New]
<mr_pouit> I replied
<charlie-tca> Thanks. Any thing we can actually do?
<charlie-tca> It was as much for tracking as anything else.
<mr_pouit> yup, filing a bug is always a good idea (and I had forgotten about the specific ubuntu-gdm feature we use)
<charlie-tca> trying, at least :-)
<mr_pouit> I added a quick workaround, you might want to try it
<charlie-tca> I will do that. Thanks.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I have to try the workaround on hardware. It fails in VBox
<knome> charlie-tca, pleia2: http://blog.knome.fi/picslide-demo/
<pleia2> knome: how many seconds is on that now?
<knome> pleia2, 8,5
<knome> you can now add this as widget or shortcode
<knome> as you can see, if you scroll the page
<knome> it loads any attachment images for the page/article in the slideshow
<charlie-tca> Would it replace slideshow or is it for the website?
<knome> that's for the website
<charlie-tca> I like that idea! It seems like an attention getter :-)
<knome> yeah, and a good way to polish my js/jquery skills
<charlie-tca> We need some flashy stuff
<knome> hopefully not Flash(tm)y :)
<pleia2> indeed!
<charlie-tca> right, you got it :-)
<knome> so pleia2... can we have some more upload rights on the server?
<pleia2> knome: more?
<knome> pleia2, i need wordpress to be able to upload images via the media buttons
<pleia2> oh sure, just tell me what www-data needs to be able to write to
<knome> let me check
<pleia2> I'll give it knome:www-data rw
<knome> Unable to create directory /srv/www/xubuntu.princessleia.com/htdocs/wp-content/uploads/2011/06
<knome> i'll also make it possible to change the header logo via the admin
<charlie-tca> GridCube: any idea how to create a link on google docs spreadsheet?
<pleia2> knome: try now?
<knome> better!
<GridCube> mmm
<GridCube> charlie-tca, http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=44660
<charlie-tca> Thaks
<charlie-tca> thanks, too. I will try it
<charlie-tca> has to be all by itself to work
<pleia2> charlie-tca: think you could take a look at this this week? https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/784165
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 784165 in Xubuntu Website "xubuntu.org/contribute/qa_bugs_testing outdated" [Undecided,New]
<pleia2> I know qa is your thing :)
<pleia2> and that page is /really bad/
<knome> pleia2, http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/ <- that page is *really bad*
<pleia2> knome: no, it's lovely! (and not finished yet)
<knome> probably need to disable the effect if there is only one list element
<pleia2> hehe, yeah
<knome> pleia2, try to upload any image as attachment to the home page now
<charlie-tca> looking
<knome> and set the title and optionally description for the image when uploaded
<pleia2> knome: neat :D
<knome> pleia2, isn't it!
<knome> hacked that together yesterday+today
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Xubuntu will now be formally part of the release team meetings. We will be on their agenda.
<charlie-tca> We are mivin
<knome> mivin? :)
<charlie-tca> we are moving up in the world
<charlie-tca> new words get invented as I go ;-)
<knome> okay, so if the page only has one image, the effect shouldn't appear
<knome> well, that's not completely true, since as you can have multiple sliders, it only looks if the first slider has one or more
<knome> but usually you only should have one slider, so no problem (even this multiple-thing is an "additional feature")
<pleia2> new_words++
<knome> pleia2, the main menu (in the header) is going to be a PITA, since i don't want to do the same hack to add the images with css to specific id elements
<knome> pleia2, that means i have to extend the menu plugin to be able to insert an image (there are some plugins for that yeah, but i don't know if they are all image-replacement)
<pleia2> goodie
<knome> or, then we can just leave the images out
<pleia2> maybe we just have a static menu?
<pleia2> no I looooove the images
<knome> heh
<knome> well
<knome> i want to do it with the menu-feature
<knome> so updating is as easy as possible
<knome> since canonical doesn't want to allow us any access to the server anyways, except wordpress admin ;)
<pleia2> yeah, but I think for that top menu static isn't too horrible, how often do we really want to change it? I'm hoping never :)
<knome> me neither, but then again, it's a good place to improve your skills
<knome> and *knowing* that it's static is not so good ;)
<pleia2> fair enough
<knome> maybe we could work it out as a "sidebar"
<knome> add one widget per menu item
<pleia2> I'm just trying to keep in mind that the more customizations we have the longer it'll take for the theme to be reviewed and approved
<knome> bear in mind that we do need to approve the plugin as well, if canonical is concerned ;)
<pleia2> yep
<charlie-tca> So, you want me to re-write the testing part of the website?
 * charlie-tca might be *that* slow today
<knome> i think we need to rewrite most of the website anyway
<knome> ;)
<knome> anyway, bbl
<knome> going to play some ps3
<charlie-tca> How much do you want? just a paragraph, or a whole bunch?
<charlie-tca> and, written in html, or plain text?
<pleia2> charlie-tca: well, as far as I can tell almost everything on xubuntu.org/contribute/qa_bugs_testing is out of date, so we want to make it not out of date
<pleia2> plain text is fine, I can htmlize it
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will do it this weekend
<pleia2> thanks :)
<charlie-tca> no problem
<charlie-tca> I have to write up a page for the release team meetings, too
<pleia2> it's up to you whether you want it to be a long page again, or just link to qa tracker stuff and launchpad, etc
<pleia2> just something so it's not mentioning malone and stuff that is wrong :)
<charlie-tca> we're getting some new stuff going, so I won't know until I actually write it what it will say
<pleia2> yeah, I think for now we can probably just update to say "check out the qa tracker!" and then later update it more with the new processes
<charlie-tca> That works for milestone testing
<pleia2> it currently links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing which is still accurate
<pleia2> so we can keep that link too for non-milestone testing
<charlie-tca> well, mostly, anywayh
<charlie-tca> I probably need to write the changes to that, too, huh?
<pleia2> probably
<pleia2> it seems like our community is growing in this world of unity, so now is probably a good time to make sure our contributor docs are in order :)
<charlie-tca> Yes, I will agree with that
<charlie-tca> We seem to growing a bit at that
<charlie-tca> wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu is aimed at development and contributors, the website is aimed at users?
<GridCube> XD unity actually broke the ubuntu community, i dont really know if thats fun or sad
<charlie-tca> They will be back. When people realize what a change Gnome3 is, they return to unity
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> Anyone testing the images today?
<charlie-tca> I threw in the OEM and FreeSoftware installs, so we get used to them. We don't test them for milestones, so we have to find out if they work on the daily testing
<charlie-tca> I think I will try google docs for the website update pages too, it seems like an easy way to share docs.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I'd say the website is mostly for users, but I think (people can disagree) keeping basic "get involved" stuff on the website is a good idea since users can always become contributors, and it helps people know that it's a community effort
 * pleia2 notices that even on the mailing lists people invoke canonical when they talk about things *headdesk*
<charlie-tca> I agree with that. Users become contributors by finding out they are allowed
<pleia2> I think cody is the only one of us who works for canonical, and he's not a dev anymore
<pleia2> for xubuntu
<charlie-tca> heh, you saw that too, huh. I'm still hoping it isn't go to be Canonical very often for us
<charlie-tca> Well, I am going shovel compost again. More fun
<pleia2> have fun :)
<GridCube> charlie-tca, :) wan't me to test alternate 386?
<charlie-tca> sure
<charlie-tca> seen the spreadsheet tracker ?
<micahg> pleia2: I work for canonical now :)
<pleia2> oh, cool :)
<charlie-tca> That's right, and he is a Xubuntu dev
<micahg> well, not a xubuntu-dev yet, I'm a dev that does some things for Xubuntu in his free time :)
<pleia2> so people can blame canonical for bugs!
<pleia2> ;)
<charlie-tca> yay!
<micahg> nope, this is off the clock except for ISO testing I think :)
<charlie-tca> at the very least, blame micahg 
<pleia2> hehe
 * micahg goes back and hides
 * charlie-tca thinks every distro should have someone that readily gets the blame
 * micahg thought that's what the Project Lead was for :P
<xrdodrx> ^
 * charlie-tca thought the Project Lead was supposed to find the person to blame
<micahg> that or the Release Manager
<charlie-tca> heh
<micahg> you could blame the QA manager as well for not finding enough bugs :P
<charlie-tca> Doesn't PL appoint the people to do stuff? 
<charlie-tca> That QA guy probably has a lot of excuses lined up, too ;-)
<micahg> sure, but the buck usually stops with the PL on smaller projects
<charlie-tca> well, I'm speechless :-)
<pleia2> hehe
 * GridCube is testing oneiric-alternate-i386.iso
<micahg> charlie-tca: so, the banishment of gdm didn't free up as much space as I would've hoped
<charlie-tca> That's because it still pulled nautilus somehow
<micahg> k, well, I'll take a look next week
<charlie-tca> also, we still have to work out the issue with the sessions, since we have workarounds to force gdm to work for us
<charlie-tca> Now we only get Xfce-sessions
<micahg> oh, hmm, didn't realize those
<charlie-tca> we didn't either
<charlie-tca> we forgot about them
<micahg> ok, well, I have a short day, so let's discuss on Monday
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> have a good weekend
<micahg> thanks, you too
<GridCube> question, when installing the "free software only" you dont get a xubuntu desktop? just a xfce desktop?
<charlie-tca> um, yup
<charlie-tca> right now, you don't ever get the xubuntu session to start
<charlie-tca> It is kind of weird
<charlie-tca> but it all works, anyway
<GridCube> rebooted and panels are not there
<charlie-tca> well, that's bad too, then
<charlie-tca> bug 795575
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 795575 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "xubuntu-session unavailable for Oneiric" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795575
<charlie-tca> we broke it going to lightdm by default
<charlie-tca> The missing panels might be related to the missing session
<GridCube> it asked me to create the panels on the first boot
<GridCube> but in this second one they are missing
<GridTest> http://imagebin.org/157716
<charlie-tca> you have to click that button to create it again, don't you?
<GridCube> no
<charlie-tca> I can't really read what it says
<GridCube> it didn't appeaed the second time
<GridCube> oh you mean translating it... it says somethign like: Choose downhere what configuration do you want for the first run
<charlie-tca> oh, that is the first boot then
<charlie-tca> yeah, it  should either give you panels or that same screen again on restarts
<GridCube> [default configuration] [empty panels]
<GridCube> rebooting
<charlie-tca> all these grid??? are you, right?
<GridCube> D: its not shuting down
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah. That is caused by lightdm crashing. a bug is filed for that too
<GridCube> ok
<charlie-tca> switch to a tty, using Ctrl+Alt+F2
<charlie-tca> login
<GridCube> :D alredy did that
<charlie-tca> then use      sudo shutdown -r now      to restart
<charlie-tca> or      sudo shutdown -P now     to shutdown completely
<GridCube> sudo reboot doesnt do the same?
<charlie-tca> I don't know. I never remember it
<charlie-tca> hm, dasher is broken too now
<GridCube> oh the session loging thing is dragable and sizable  (sp?) but there are not shutdown/restart options from there
<charlie-tca> yeah, it is a work in progress.
<GridCube> this time panels did work
<charlie-tca> We want as much testing as possible of the lightdm application.
<GridCube> what kind of testing :)
<GridCube> tell me and ill try
<charlie-tca> the same kind we are doing. Using it, loggin in, etc
<charlie-tca> each test you do, you test lightdm
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> I seem to have been very successful breaking oneiric :-)
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> updating isn't working?
<charlie-tca> update manager is broken
<GridCube> okay
<GridCube> so tests are ended
<GridCube> do i file pass but whit some panel problems?
<charlie-tca> yes, pass it
<charlie-tca> panel is not part of it
<GridCube> :D do i paint it green?
<charlie-tca> heh, no
<charlie-tca> just been leaving them black text on white
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> unless you really want to. Then it is okay
<GridCube> copypasted the same that said on other test result because it was the same, including the bug report
<charlie-tca> Okeydokey
<charlie-tca> Thanks for doing that test
<GridCube> :D not a problem
<GridCube> glad i could help
<charlie-tca> We got to keep trying
<GridCube> anything to make xubuntu greater i could do :D 
<GridCube> lol there are two thunars, one whit the nautilus logo and other whit the thunar logo
<charlie-tca> um, click help -> about
<charlie-tca> one should be nautilus, pulled in with updates again
<GridTest> http://paste.ubuntu.com/623776/
<GridTest> something i really, but really, dislike about firefox on ubuntu is that clicking on the address bar doesnt select the text, and that i have to about:config it
<charlie-tca> expected errors for this time
<charlie-tca> everything is up and down with the switch to 2d, gtk3, and python changes
<GridCube> oh but thats just something firefox allways do
<GridCube> ok killing the vm :D
<GridTest> goodbye!
<GridCube> XD ok, shuting down failed again :D
<charlie-tca> It should
<charlie-tca> At least that is consistent
<GridCube> XD yes my exact though
<charlie-tca> It's like my logging in. I crash lightdm every single time. It is very consistent, too.
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> okay, coffee break
<GridCube> okay
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/157727
<GridCube> D: i just >sudo shutdown now             and got this
<GridCube> oh sorry for not answering you charlie, yes all the grids where me, from inside the testing machine, because thats easier to share pastebins and imagebins
<charlie-tca> Okay, that latest image is recovery mode, got to by holding a key right after bios checks, then selecting recovery menu in grub
<charlie-tca> or sometimes it breaks and you get to go there anyway. You really can't usually get to a normal lightdm screen from there, unless you use "sudo lightdm" on the command line
<charlie-tca> you should use "sudo shutdown -P now" to shutdown. The -P is power off
<charlie-tca> to restart, -r is reboot
<GridCube> i did sudo shutdown -h now
<GridCube> after that
<charlie-tca> h?
<micahg> -h is halt
<charlie-tca> for halt without power off?
<charlie-tca> or is that only on my ancient machines
<GridCube> its a virtual machine, and it worked
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-11
<charlie-tca> knome, pleia2 : applies to the website - http://nigelb.me/ubuntu/2011/06/10/cleaning-up-the-planet.html?
<pleia2> ah, who wants to be responsible for it?
<pleia2> (who has the feedburner login?)
<charlie-tca> I don't have a planet blog 
<charlie-tca> knome, I think, has the login. but I could be wrong again.
<pleia2> you can have a planet blog and sponsor a team feed
<charlie-tca> Yes, but I have no planet blog. Can I still sponsor a team feed?
<charlie-tca> You can my nick on it, if you want
<pleia2> yep, any ubuntu member can
<charlie-tca> nick here = launchpad
<pleia2> k, I'll update it
<pleia2> we should figure out who has the feedburner login though :)
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> should be either knome or cody-somerville, I guess
<pleia2> done :)
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> I'm sure someone will tell me if it is me that has the login. I just don't remember getting it
<knome> pleia2, it's not me with the feedburner login. anyway, i suppose we'll start using the wp feed, once we start using wp, right?
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> no new images today for anyone
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Right, any idea whether there'll be tomorrow?
<charlie-tca> none at this time, but normally, none saturday means wait until Monday
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Okay then. I'll focus of US tomorrow, then. If you're around, though, we can maybe have a chat on what I could be of assistance when regarding Xubuntu. I vaguely recall I promised to do something, but I have to browse the logs to remind me. :)
<astraljava> But now, I'm off to shoot some pool. :) See ya later.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-06-12
<xrdodrx> hey charlie-tca , in relation to that "bug" with the compose key, just in the future you don't even have to change that file by hand, you can just do sudo dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration, which is really nice as it also lets you set Ctrl+Alt+Bksp as the shortcut to kill X and doesn't require a compose key to change the compose key to AltGr :)
<xrdodrx> Lionel Le Fogloc brought it up in  the bug report here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/795749
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 795749 in Ubuntu "cannot change compose key" [Undecided,Invalid]
<xrdodrx> doesn't require the X server to be restarted to change the compose key****
<micahg> mr_pouit: we should consider switching file-roller with xarchiver since the former is pulling in nautilus now
<micahg> unfortunately, squeeze is still using thunar-vfs
<micahg> charlie-tca: ^^
<mr_pouit> squeeze isn't really maintained upstream anyway at this time
<mr_pouit> and xarchiver, ewwww
<mr_pouit> but we don't have much choice
<mr_pouit> let's do s/file-roller/xarchiver/ and s/mousepad/leafpad/
<ochosi> yay for s/mousepad/leafpad
<charlie-tca> will that also drop squeeze?
<mr_pouit> squeeze isn't installed by default
<charlie-tca> okay. Thanks
<charlie-tca> A good review of Xfce, and a lot of mention for Xubuntu -
<charlie-tca> http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/456623-weekend-project-find-hidden-treasures-in-xfce-48
<mr_pouit> Apparently Ubuntu is "humanity towards others with perfect vision and sharp, high resolution computer monitors."
<mr_pouit> bwahaha, awesome
<charlie-tca> I saw that too
<charlie-tca> Seems like I been saying that for a long time
<mr_pouit> mmh, gnome-sudoku doesn't seem to exist anymore in oneiric, does someone know the new name for it? ;>
<xrdodrx> mr_pouit, supposed to be gnome-sudoku according to http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/games/
<xrdodrx> Bug?
<charlie-tca> I thought they pulled it because of issues with getting it work in oneiric
<mr_pouit> - Keep separation of games in subpackages (gnome-sudoku disabled for now)
<charlie-tca> !info gnome-sudoku
<ubottu> gnome-sudoku (source: gnome-games): Sudoku number puzzle. In component main, is optional. Version 1:2.32.1-0ubuntu5 (natty), package size 292 kB, installed size 4356 kB
<mr_pouit> it has been disabled for now
<charlie-tca> Wbsite is down today 
<charlie-tca> Website is down today?
<pleia2> what website?
<charlie-tca> xubuntu.org
<pleia2> seems ok to me
<charlie-tca> I get an error
<pleia2> clicked through a few pages, no errors here
<holstein> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://xubuntu.org/
 * holstein gives it a thumbs up :)
<charlie-tca> I don't understand. I can access anything but xubuntu.org
<holstein> odd
<charlie-tca> Must be qwest!
<charlie-tca> Access control configuration prevents your request from being allowed at this time. Please contact your service provider if you feel this is incorrect.
<pleia2> you're just trying to get out of working on the qa page
<pleia2> ;D
<charlie-tca> Heh, I wish
<charlie-tca> I just wanted to see what is there
<pleia2> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8QRv41hVYUsJ:www.xubuntu.org/contribute/qa_bugs_testing+http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa_bugs_testing&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
<charlie-tca> Thanks. I will have to call my isp tomorrow and get them to fix this
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/157931
<pleia2> ah, .com
<pleia2> do .org
<pleia2> .com is definitely broken!
<charlie-tca> really?
<pleia2> yeah, I get the same error
<pleia2> that's no good
 * charlie-tca slaps head. Of course it is .org
<pleia2> shall I submit an rt ticket?
<charlie-tca> that .org works, too
<charlie-tca> I don't know that we own .com. I think we only got .net and .org
<pleia2> it's on a canonical server
<pleia2> Generated Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:26:46 GMT by jujube.canonical.com (squid/2.7.STABLE7)
<charlie-tca> yes, then. Maybe the redirect is wrong for it
<charlie-tca> or missing?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> .net is broken too
<charlie-tca> Then the redirects are messed up
<charlie-tca> I know .net worked, because we redirected about 2 years ago
<pleia2> k, sent
<pleia2> but they probably hate me, I've been piling on the tickets for problems with ubuntu-news.org too
<charlie-tca> I am sorry
<charlie-tca> but, the website team hates me, so it is probably okay
<Unit193> I'm free to be hated :D
<pleia2> hrm, no email reply with ticket number
<charlie-tca> :-(
<pleia2> well, I'll follow up in a couple days
<charlie-tca> Thanks for doing that
<micahg> mr_pouit: do you need me to do anything?
<micahg> mr_pouit: leafpad seems just as dead
<charlie-tca> micahg: it is quite as dead
<charlie-tca> micahg: it is *NOT* quite as dead
<charlie-tca> so
<charlie-tca> sorry
<micahg> no new upstream since lucid seems dead
<charlie-tca> um, they just aren't quite as active
<charlie-tca> I think
<charlie-tca> leafpad updates are farther apart than mousepad updates were
<micahg> ah, there are 2 new upstreams not packaged
<charlie-tca> micahg: oh, yeah. Mouse pad is really slow to open and close now, leafpad is fast
<mr_pouit> micahg: at least it uses gtk+ printing
<mr_pouit> because xfprint4 is pretty useless nowadays, but mousepad is the only one still relying on it
<micahg> ooh, cool, so another thing we can drop :)
<mr_pouit> and a few months ago, when I made some patches for mousepad to fix some issues, I ported them for leafpad as well, and they were included upstream
<mr_pouit> that's why I think it is "alive"
<micahg> well, they had a release last december, I think that's alive enough
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: what will replace xfprint4 ?
<mr_pouit> nothing
<charlie-tca> or what has?
<charlie-tca> Great! win/win
<mr_pouit> gtk+ contains a printing api now
<mr_pouit> since gtk+ 2.10 afaik
 * micahg thought cairo was used for printing
<mr_pouit> micahg: it's probably what's used behind the api ;>
<mr_pouit> micahg: oh, and for your first question, you can take a merge on the wiki page, if you want :p
<micahg> mr_pouit: k, will try to get to at least 1 today
<charlie-tca> pleia2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JccH3vUCUz--1FofKmqEr3XODlJIsIYDlrUZyLiYWX4/edit?hl=en_US&authkey=COna2ucP
<charlie-tca> would you prefer plain text?
<pleia2> charlie-tca: no that's great!
<pleia2> I'll make it into html and post it this afternoon
<charlie-tca> Okay. Thanks
<charlie-tca> Page the release notes for Oneiric will be built from:
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/OneiricOcelot/AlphaNotes
<pleia2> oh yeah, we missed making an alpha1 post to the site, if we can get someone to write an alpha2 when that comes in a couple weeks I can make sure it gets posted
<charlie-tca> That's right, we did
<charlie-tca> we need to get us a news writer, soon, huh?
<pleia2> :)
<micahg> charlie-tca: might want to update your template: The main reason for this meeting is to discuss
<micahg> progress for Natty Narwhal.
<charlie-tca> where? the meeting reminder?
<charlie-tca> well...
<charlie-tca> You read those?
<Unit193> I don't think I can make it (I may be ablt to readup and catch the end)
 * micahg thought it was a good idea to read posts on xubuntu-devel
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I am glad to know someone reads the posts on The ML
<charlie-tca> I seem to write a few, it is really good to know someone reads them
<pleia2> meeting reminders are good good :)
<Unit193> I read all the xubuntu-devel mails
<plantoschka> is anyone from canonical working on xubuntu or only community?
<charlie-tca> community only
<micahg> only community (althought some Canonical employees do community work as well)
<charlie-tca> We are all volunteers
<plantoschka> you're doing a great job :)
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<plantoschka> how many people ~ are working on xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> about 19
<charlie-tca> looks like
<charlie-tca> It varies with the day. 
<charlie-tca> We are all volunteers, so some people come help for a day or two and go away
<charlie-tca> I got 8 or 10 that been here for a long time
<plantoschka> :)
<plantoschka> you know how much people are helping for kubuntu, lubuntu? more, less?
<charlie-tca> and many in the community that do help with testing the development releases.
<charlie-tca> I have no idea on other distros
<charlie-tca> Never thought it mattered enough to even find out. 
<plantoschka> i was just interested ;)
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu will still only have so many, regardless of how many any other distro has.
<plantoschka> i think xubuntu is great but a lot of people see it as a ubuntu version for low-end machines. i use it on my quad and love it :) i think xfce atm is more customizable than unity or gnome3
<charlie-tca> We would like to change that perception, but it is a long way up to convince them.
<plantoschka> i think more people are starting to use xubuntu since 11.04
 * micahg thinks in time all the Ubuntu flavors will grow their user bases
<plantoschka> 200million users to go :-D
<micahg> well, 180 million to go ;)
<charlie-tca> Let's aim for the first couple hunderd-thousand for Xubuntu, first :-)
<plantoschka> you know how much people are using xubuntu ? or just how often they downloaded it?
<charlie-tca> nope and nope
<charlie-tca> neither is actually counted/logged
<charlie-tca> We know how many report through popcon
<plantoschka> think you forgot the 11.10 alpha 1 announcment on the xubuntu homepage
<charlie-tca> We don t usually announce alpha1 there.
<micahg> not much difference in xubuntu in alpha1, just half the GNOME3 stack :-/
 * micahg will be interested to see the size of the live CD tomorrow
<pleia2> charlie-tca: https://www-admin.xubuntu.org/contribute/qa_bugs_testing has now been updated :)
<charlie-tca> Me too
<micahg> the alternate CD might even be CD sized again
<charlie-tca> w00t!
<pleia2> for reference, I backed up the old text here for now: http://princessleia.com/temp/qa-old.html
<plantoschka> well there was an alpha1 annoncment for 10.10 and 11.04
<charlie-tca> got it up to date, even!
<charlie-tca> So, in 6 years, we got two announcements for alpha1?
<pleia2> oops, sorry for the admin url for that
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa_bugs_testing :)
<charlie-tca> oops
<charlie-tca> no problem
<plantoschka> ;)
<charlie-tca> plantoschka: would you like to help ?
<charlie-tca> We really someone to do some publicity for Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> write a blog, write news releases, check reviews others write and track them for us
<pleia2> we're down to one xubuntu.org bug \o/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<plantoschka> i wrote some blog posts about the new xubuntu release and how much i liked it (all in german) :-) even did an youtube video.
<charlie-tca> So you have experience doing it?
<plantoschka> not much but a lil bit
<charlie-tca> Great! alpha2 is July 7, and we need a news release ready on that day
<charlie-tca> Can I mark you down to have it for us?
<plantoschka> i could try ;)
<plantoschka> sounds not too hard ;)
<charlie-tca> Great! Thanks for helping with Xubuntu. 
<charlie-tca> pleia2: ^ ^ 
<charlie-tca> plantoschka: you can email that to me ...
<charlie-tca> charlie-tca AT ubuntu DOT com
<plantoschka> ok will do that a couple days ahead
<charlie-tca> Thanks. If you want, remind me and I will get the list of changes together for you.
<plantoschka> ok that would be great. i wrote it in my calendar so i should not forget :-)
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<plantoschka> no problem i would love to give something back even if it's just a few words for an upcoming release ;)
<charlie-tca> blogs and news releases are a big item, when you have no one doing them!
<charlie-tca> Every item helps get word out.
<plantoschka> time for bed ;) 
<charlie-tca> Good night
<astraljava> Sorry! Was too focused on packaging, I missed the meeting! :(
<charlie-tca> It's tomorrow this week
<astraljava> Oh, so it is.
<charlie-tca> 19:00 UTC Monday
<astraljava> :)
<charlie-tca> I did that just to keep myself confused
 * charlie-tca thinks it is working too. He is really confused now.
<astraljava> Looked at the email, it said 13th of June, looked at the time/date in panel, it said the same.
<charlie-tca> Oh, one of those time zones ;-)
<astraljava> Yeah. :D
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-04
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i recently got in touch with the current skippy-xd maintainer (that's the exposÃ© feature for various wms, incl. xfmw4), if you're around please "pong" me :)
<ochosi> hmm, i somehow like these sidebar-icons: http://dribbble.com/shots/147868-Mac-OS-X-Lion-Style-Sidebar-Icons
<knome> hmm. some of them are a bit too cluttered (internal, usb hd, server - too bad those are the most used), but generally not bad
<knome> the "internal" icon in this set:  http://dribbble.com/shots/356088-Mini-Icons  is better
<knome> so i think just modifying the inside part (less contrast) could work
 * madnick likes famfamfam, but I suppose they are outdated
<ochosi> knome: what i like about the icons, especially the HD icon, is that they don't have the weird perspective of elementary's icon
<ochosi> maybe we can at least refactor the 16px icons...
<ochosi> i also like the color-scheme of those butw (almost monochrome/blueish)
<knome> mm
<knome> oh come on!
<knome> clicking the "Home" icon on LO tries to go to /home/knome/Documents !
<ochosi> LO?
<soren> I'm going to guess LibreOffice.
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> then it kinda makes sense though
<ochosi> (haven't found a home-button there though)
<knome> ochosi, in "save"
<knome> ochosi, top-right corner
<knome> okie, send email and tweeted about the next community meeting
<knome> did the ubuntu wiki just crash?
<knome> astraljava, hmph. :)
<knome> astraljava, when was the QA meeting with pleia2 scheduled again?
<astraljava> knome: Sunday the 17th.
<astraljava> knome: And yes, it seems to have.
<knome> astraljava, okay. what's your schedule today?
<astraljava> Bad.
<knome> heh
<knome> and i suppose tomorrow daytime isn't good either?
<astraljava> Not really. What are we talking about?
<knome> i was wondering if i'd get some help in reviewing the long test
<astraljava> Sorry, no can do.
<knome> yeah, np
<knome> what about weekend then?
<astraljava> Weekend will be better, apart from Saturday earlier than, say, 6 pm. (local time).
<astraljava> But Sat. evening and the whole of Sunday will be fine.
<knome> ok, if we seem to crash at irc the same time, remind me of the review if i don't do that first
<astraljava> I'll try. :)
<knome> great
<astraljava> knome: What about the lead thingie? I see Testing team as empty now.
<knome> astraljava, ah, right
<astraljava> What's the policy on filling that position? Is there going to be a voting or something?
<knome> i'll send yet another mail
<knome> QA lead would be much more descriptive, right?
<knome> or did we want to avoid that
<knome> astraljava, ?
<ochosi> knome: i really prefer the light-menus with greybird, they feel so much more easy to read...
<ochosi> bbl
<mips1911> IS there any way to get drop shadows on the panel?
<holstein> mips1911: try http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=3588
<mips1911> holstein, thx. I have all options ticked but no go
<holstein> mips1911: are you using compositing?
<holstein> mips1911: is it *that* big of a deal?
<mips1911> holstein, yes enabled but not a big deal. Just trying to figure out if i can somehow enable it.
<holstein> mips1911: you got other shadows?
<mips1911> holstein, yes all other window etc shadows are working fine
<mips1911> No worries though, just got a call and gotto go do something more important now, drink beer for someones birthday! :)
<mips1911> Cheers, will pop back later.
<holstein> mips1911: right on!
<mips1911> pop in and I'll buy you one! ;)
<holstein> mips1911: wow... i'll get in the car right now!! ;)
<pleia2> knome: want me to add the next meeting to the google cal?
<knome> pleia2, ah, yeah, that'd be cool
<knome> pleia2, if you are there in 15 mins, i might need you :)
<knome> brb
 * pleia2 waves to knome 
<knome> hai!
<pleia2> busy worky day, but I'm about
<knome> heh, if you're busy, then nvm :D
<pleia2> nah it's ok
<knome> okay
<knome> i was thinking about the docs
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> we have loads of people ready to start working
<knome> i was thinking whether the structure needed updating or not
<pleia2> I don't know what the structure is :(
<pleia2> (or anything about docs really)
<knome> pleia2, are you on a xubuntu machine?
<pleia2> yep
<knome> pleia2, click applications menu -> help
<pleia2> oh yes, I have *seen* the docs
<pleia2> that say 11.10 :)
<knome> pleia2, well yeah; i don't know more than you either then
<knome> in the "Xubuntu Documentation", there's the structure
<pleia2> yeah, I don't know where this all lives on launchpad though, how to change it, who can change it, translations?
<knome> i don't know where it lives either...
<knome> but i'm not too worried about the technical side
<pleia2> ok
<knome> i'm thinking "how can we unleash this 20-head group full of energy"
<pleia2> ah yes, that
<knome> i'm also thinking what's the necessary documentation to ship; how much do we have to worry about users not having internet, and what kind of documentation do we have to have for those who don't have internet
<knome> i'm thinking that maybe the refreshed documentation needs to be more compact and easier to grasp
<pleia2> so I read recently about changes to how xfce itself "ships" documentation and I'm wondering if that would impact us at all
<knome> yes, that's another thing; could we just point to the xfce docs for DE-related issues?
<knome> and of course, unleash some of that energy to write the xfce docs directly
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> and if we do that, how much documentation we need to maintain under xubuntu
<knome> probably some ubuntu-specific stuff, but what about different applications?
<pleia2> so it turns out we already do a pretty good job in our current docs of not rewriting things like "how to use abiword"
<knome> hehe
<knome> i'm thinking if it's too brave to drop any application-specific docs
<knome> looks like the old docs even have a section listing different games for linux ;)
<knome> "Strategy games require you to use careful tactics to plan the next move; simulation games let you explore and manage realistic models of such things as cities and vehicles. Strategy and simulation games can be quite addictive and many people happily spend hours playing their game of choice!"
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i'm not so sure how relevant that is
<pleia2> this needs a lot of love
<knome> i've been thinking that we need a group of trustworthy people to go through what is needed and what now
<knome> how much time have you reserved for the meeting on 17th?
<pleia2> I have all morning, so I could be around for 3+ hours
<knome> i could look through the docs today and create a quick proposal
<pleia2> so I've done smaller scale (not 20 people, more like 3) documentation rewriting things at work, and we've essentially just dumped headlines from the docs into a wiki, assigned people sections, and then come back for meetings (we use svn and wiki for docs at work, but)
<pleia2> er, but.. we'd need to look into what we use for xubuntu
<knome> "use" ?
<knome> oh, you mean the technical side?
<pleia2> docbook
<pleia2> yeah sorry, I am hung up on the technical side still :)
<knome> i'd say we're not tied with anything
<knome> we can keep with docbook, that's fine
<pleia2> it matters because we have to control who has access to commits and things, and that workflow helps define how we structure the team
<knome> but i'm not assuming the 20-head group will all (want to) learn docbook
<pleia2> yeah, I'm thinking some will just do rewrites in .odt and submit them to docbook people
<pleia2> or whatever
<knome> agreed; otoh, i think the majority of this group will not stick for eternity anyway ;)
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> yes, or rewrites in the wiki or anything
<knome> having 2 or 3 people with ability to do docbook would be ideal
<pleia2> so I think we want to get ourselves to a point where we can assign sections to people and they write them whereever, and doc leads convert them into techie-style-whatever to commit them
<knome> assigning sections to people is fine, but what if we did...
<knome> for each section, set an assignee and a reviewer (for content and language)
<knome> then point to the docbook-guys
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i think we'd get better results if people had to work with others
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> "get as much feedback as you can as often as you can"
<knome> i'm thinking only the people who will have commit access should be approved to the team
<knome> but i'm also thinking that this group should be the group that shows commitment to continue contributing
<pleia2> so that would probably just be the docbook folks
<knome> yes, but at this time, it's really hard to say who should be in that group
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> we don't even know how many of the people will just not do anything!
<pleia2> and whether having a lp group at all makes sense (could we give a group access to just the docs in our xuubntu world, or is it too tied in with -dev?)
<pleia2> I mean, a committers group, having a doc team makes sense
<knome> i think the LP group is there because some team needs to be part of ~ubuntu-doc
<knome> right
<knome> otoh, the -art or -website team is not everybody who is making some small contributions eitehr
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i agree it might be a bit different with docs, but i'm sure (how negative thinking!) the -doc team will be just a few guys anyway
<pleia2> if we make it easy, I think we could do well with docs
<pleia2> the trouble wth ubuntu-docs is that it feels like to do anything you need to be super docbook guru and understand all the tools
<pleia2> ubuntu-manual does all this much better
<knome> i might be wrong but i think most of the people who have "signed in" now do not necessarily want to even be a part of a LP group
<pleia2> yeah, there is always some attrition, but 20 is a nice start, we may end up with 5 solid contributors :)
<pleia2> (that's about the ratio to people emailed: people doing work each week on UWN)
<knome> i'm thinking [original_amount]*.15
<knome> anyway, i agree with the fact that contributing should be as easy as possible
<knome> this is what i want to offer for the 20 there
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> if some of them want to learn docbook too - fantastic!
<knome> the other thing i was wondering...
<pleia2> so, we should 1) find where docs live 2) confirm docbook 3) meet
<knome> how many of the contributors are english-native?
<knome> and how much spell-checking do we need to do
<knome> and should we assign the english-fluent people to do that (too)
<pleia2> good points
<knome> and if we assign the english-fluent people to do that too, isn't that just... waste of resources?
<knome> they could just write the docs themself
<knome> and no special review would be needed
<knome> but what would the non-english-fluent do then?
<pleia2> I wonder if we just trust that folks volunteering are confident in their english skills, and we tweak as needed (if one section turns out really awkward, drag in a fluent speaker)
<knome> we didn't say we want people who are confident
<knome> what do you think of creating a list of the tasks where we need people, and tell to pick 2
<pleia2> yeah, but I think volunteering to write english-language docs implies it
<knome> writing/proof-reading/.../.../docbook
<knome> or "pick 1"
<knome> and let's see how the people group up
<pleia2> that would be good
<knome> so, what would the different groups be?
<knome> is there more than three
<pleia2> writing, editing, converting to docbook, final proofing and committing
<pleia2> are the jobs I see
<knome> editing meaning proof-reading and converting to sensible english? :P
<pleia2> nd we probably need some administrative in there somewhere (planning meetings, setting deadlines, following up
<pleia2> yeah, I suppose we should have technical editors too
<knome> should we then tell people to pick 2?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> so
<knome> writer
<knome> editor (proof-read and make understandable)
<knome> what else?
<pleia2> technical editor (right default apps are covered, doesn't say crazy wrong things)
<pleia2> docbooks person
<knome> or s/person/editor/ :)
<knome> or s/person/manager/ ?
 * pleia2 shrugs
<pleia2> any will do
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> maybe editor is best
<astraljava> knome: QA Lead does indeed sound much better, I somehow hear it more describing to my interests.
<knome> astraljava, well that's decided anyway :)
<knome> (see email at -devel)
<astraljava> Weeelll there you have it. :)
<knome> so what after docbook editor?
<knome> final proofing?
<pleia2> yeah, but that'll be a job pretty late in the game and hopefully won't find anything
<knome> does the doc committers commit to ubuntu repos or somewhere else?
<pleia2> I think we need to figure out the infrastructure before deciding that
<pleia2> I think it's probably best to offer: writer, grammar editor, technical editor, docbooks editor
<pleia2> and then go from there, everyone in the world can do final editing and just email changes to -devel if we want
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation
<knome> how does that look?
<knome> should we convert the requirements to lists?
<pleia2> I think that's a good start
<knome> is that more understandable/graspable
<pleia2> seems fine to me the way it is
<knome> hmmh.
<knome> i was thinking the other way
<knome> quite hard to see immediately what's good for you
<pleia2> well sure, if you want
<knome> nah
<pleia2> but they're all short enough at this time that it's not hard to read
<knome> maybe it's for the best to expect some patience ;)
<pleia2> yes, doc volunteers must be willing to actually read the docs we write for the volunteers ;)
<knome> hehe
<astraljava> What, you mean all the glory, fortune and fame don't come for nuthin'?! HUH?
<knome> :)
<knome> pleia2, mmh, so
<knome> are you happy with the page now, should i send email about that?
<pleia2> yeah go for it
<knome> hmm, 9 applicants don't have public address provided at LP
<knome> sent mail
<knome> meh, 2 more delivery fails
<pleia2> heh
<knome> i'm sending privmsgs through LP
<knome> astraljava told the limit might be 4 per day
<knome> let's see if i need help :P
<knome> WFF?
<knome> three??!
<Unit193> Well, I am here.
<knome> title:  IMPORTANT; Xubuntu documentation
<knome> content:  You've applied to the Xubuntu documentation team. Please see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008243.html
<knome> Unit193, i'll PM you three nicks
<knome> actually, i'll ask #launchpad first.
<knome> astraljava, pleia2: still there?
<pleia2> mhmm
<knome> pleia2, i'll send you three nicks too
<knome> somebody else from the team hanging? ;)
<Unit193> I know other LP people. :P
<knome> i'd like it to come from xubuntu team members at least
<knome> it's kind of spooky if random people contact you :D
<Unit193> Figured, and makes sense.
<knome> muahahah, three more days and people will expire from the team
<knome> then i'll be the only member!
 * knome laughs manically
<pleia2> oh yeah, Unit193 and I were added to #xubuntu and #xubuntu-offtopic access lists today
<knome> hah, and i was "added" to the #xubuntu-ot list too
<knome> :P
<pleia2> keeping them synced must be fun
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> and congrats ;)
<knome> i'll leave the op duties to you now
<knome> :]
<pleia2> "here, more work!"
<pleia2> :)
<knome> haha, yeah!
<pleia2> the channels are mostly fine though
 * pleia2 knocks on wood
<knome> i was thiking if there were people interested in the mailing list moderation
<knome> especially -users
<Unit193> pleia2 is stalking me...
<pleia2> <3
<pleia2> I should keep up with -users more, I'd think we we'd want to add folks who do good work there (so they're already paying attention) but I don't know who to suggest
<knome> what if we just asked them? :P
<pleia2> I got added as a moderator for ubuntu-users once, it was tricky trying to figure out exactly which level of hell it was
<knome> "who'd like to"
<knome> lol
<knome> xubuntu-users is not too bad (maybe only a few floors down)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> yeah, I think the high volume of ubuntu-users caused it to be a particularly special case :)
<pleia2> this was all while the CC was trying to tame it (it got nasty for a while), things are better these days
<Unit193> I'm not even on it. >_>
<knome> argh
<knome> how do i access about:config on tb agian
<knome> oh, there, good
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-05
<knome> GridCube, hai...
<knome> GridCube, i need your launchpad account ;)
<GridCube> :) 
<GridCube> gridcube
<knome> haha
<knome> i mean, could you send a few personal msgs?
<knome> the limit is 3 in 24 hours
<knome> me, pleia2 and Unit193 already used our limit
<GridCube> i could
<knome> i'll send you details in PL
<knome> er. PM
<GridCube> kk
<knome> yes
<GridCube> hey knome :) so the first meeting for quantal is in?
<knome> next weeks wednesday at 15UTC
<knome> - yes
<knome> :)
<GridCube> ok, can you add a reminder in the topic for this channel please?
<knome> i was onto that earlier today, but something caught my attention
<micahg> now it's 15:00 UTC?
<GridCube> i tend to forget so if isee it i will remember :P
<knome> micahg, when it was something else?
 * micahg thought it was later for some reason
<knome> hehe, nope
 * knome feels like cheating the death
<knome> renaming backup dirs
<knome> probably should move to more granular dirnames
<GridCube> a veces ... lol
<GridCube> i started to write in spaÃ±ish
<GridCube> some times i feel like im tired of repetitive questions on the main channel :/
<knome> i understand
<knome> anyway, time to go to bed
<knome> tbe, more than time to go to bed
<knome> see you tomorrow!
<GridCube> :)
<ochosi> knome: i'm strongly considering merging the bright-menus branch to master...
<ochosi> but actually it'd be great to get a bit more testing before that
<knome> i'm using the branch on production now
<ochosi> how do you feel about it?
<ochosi> (a few widgets still need color-tweaks, i'm mainly talking about the bright menus)
<knome> you get used to the bright menus quite quickly, but i'm still wondering if it's too bright
<knome> btw, we should provide a gtk tweak (if possible) or a tb-specific tweak to make the folderpane the same blue as the thunar sidebar
<ochosi> actually it's grey now, but yeah, if possible we should try that
<ochosi> (i think it'd demand a usercss crap-file, but who knows...)
<ochosi> maybe haven't pushed the sidebar-tweak yet
<knome> it's possible at least via a userchrome.css -file, but... that's better than nothing. we can just ship those and add a readme on how to apply
<ochosi> i'm afraid that if we tune down the menu-bg-color more that it will visually melt into the background too much
<ochosi> background==rest of the window
<knome> right
<knome> maybe you could tell me how to tweak that, and i could test some
<ochosi> yeah, should be fairly easy, i'll find the line-number for you
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/blob/bright-menus/gtk-2.0/gtkrc#L302
<ochosi> plus L304 and L305
<knome> i'll check that in a sec
<knome> just FYI; i'll be off from tomorrow to friday
<GridCube> :)
<ochosi> knome: see, at least someone's happy that you're gone ^ ;D
<hobgoblin> lol
<GridCube> :P
<knome> ochosi, ;)
<ochosi> knome: i'm also considering to drop the stripes and change the color of the progressbars
<pleia2> http://www.ubuntu-user.com/Magazine/Archive/2012/13/Ubuntu-Developer-Summit-Quantal-Quetzal
<pleia2> includes photo from the Xubuntu section of the plenary
<knome> ehm. :)
<drc> You mean figure 4?
<pleia2> hah, no, that was the creepy google party :P
<drc> oh...I just thought 3 and 4 were flipped :)
<knome> pleia2, good to have cleared that out, i wasn't sure if that was from my release party
<astraljava> knome: Someone released you?! RUUUUN!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!
<knome> haha
<drc> yeah, time off for good behavior...fooled them, didn't you?
<knome> i think i'm off for today. probably need to get back for some tomorrow morning, so i'm not saying bye for few days just yet
<knome> nighty!
<astraljava> G'night!
<knome> night to you too! :)
<knome> hey GridCube, and bye :)
<GridCube> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-06
<JamesGeek1> Hello World!
<malv> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1008682 < Bug is hurting the Xubuntu experience
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1008682 GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: can you look at bug #1008682? i can confirm it, and it *is* annoying, and should be fixed asap
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1001936 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1008682 GTK3 Grab/Move Triggered on Mouse Click" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1001936
<knome> (i know i linked a duplicate, but the desription is better than in the original)
<micahg> knome: ask the desktop team about it
<micahg> hrm, doesn't do it in unity
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether people can confirm it with ambiance
<ochosi> it's not impossible that there is a setting in the gtk3-file
<ochosi> (i already noticed this bug/behavior pre-precise, so i switched of "move window by dragging toolbar", obviously that wasn't the issue)
 * micahg can't debug more ATM
<ochosi> ambiance has set "-GtkWidget-window-dragging: true;" for both .menubar and .primary-toolbar
<ochosi> since i thought the problem would be the toolbar, i switched that off
<ochosi> i can also switch off the menubar-dragging, maybe it's somehow misbehaving with xfwm4 and is therefore not reproducible with unity
<ochosi> ok, maybe we have to switch off the resize-grip (ambiance doesn't show one, so another reason why it wouldn't happen on unity)
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> knome: please try to disable the resize-grip in greybird (gtk-widgets.css, search for "-GtkWindow-resize-grip-default" and set to false)
<ochosi> bbl
<knome> ochosi, we're leaving soon, i'll do that on Fri
<astraljava> Ahh... so that's why you're up this "early".
<knome> astraljava, yes.
<knome> :)
<knome> ok, off until Fri. see you!
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> knome: hf!
<cc_INC> There is a meeting on Wednsday, June 13th but on the wiki it says Wednesday, June 16th
<cc_INC> Is this a mistake?!
<pleia2> what calendar are you looking at?
<cc_INC> I would love to join the community meeting but I can't make it :(
<cc_INC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<pleia2> I see, there is some confusion here
<pleia2> the email to the list said the 13th
<pleia2> the 16th isn't a Wednesday, the 13th is
<pleia2> so it looks like the wiki is confused
<cc_INC> It states, I quote: The next meeting is on Wednesday, June 16th at 15:00 UTC on #xubuntu-devel in the Freenode IRC network (chat.freenode.net). But my birthday is on Thursday the 14th :) 16th of June is on Saturay
<pleia2> yeah, evne the link says the 13th
<pleia2> fixing the wiki
<cc_INC> Haha, don't want to be a pain in the behind or anything :)
<pleia2> thanks, it's the 13th :)
<cc_INC> I was hoping it was on Saturday, so I can attend the meeting until I checked the link to see my time zone
<cc_INC> I guess I'll just read the meeting minutes and keep spreading the gospel of Xubuntu.
<pleia2> we're having a QA meeting on Sunday if you're interested in that
<pleia2> the 17th
<cc_INC> What time is that scheduled?
<Unit193> Can we embed the calendar in the website, or would that not be as helpful as I'm lead to think?
<pleia2> cc_INC: 16:00 UTC
<cc_INC> I think a link is sufficient....the website looks so sleek and clean....
<pleia2> Unit193: website is mostly for customer-facing
<Unit193> Figured. :/
<cc_INC> Would be shame to crowd it :)
<pleia2> if we actually manage to maintain this calendar, we should link it to the wiki somewhere
<Unit193> So I can just nag you and knome if you forget, right? :D
<cc_INC> Anyone here going to Linuxcon Europe?!?
<Unit193> I hope to make OLF this year though.
<pleia2> Unit193: yeah, and if we aren't good at it we'll add you as an editor ;)
<cc_INC> Looking for Xubuntu-addicts who are also gonna head to Linuxcon for a little meet n' greet
<cc_INC> Oh before I forget I'm in the process of writing down directions to getting Xubuntu on a Power Mac G5. a) is it usefull and b) if so, who do I submit it to?!
<pleia2> probably something like https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/PowerPC/Xubuntu
<pleia2> and then link it to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/PowerPC
<cc_INC> Okay. I need to login @ Launchpad to be able to create a page?!?! Sorry for being such a N00b, but besides a few bugs I have not done anything at all with Launchpad :(
<pleia2> no need to use so many ?!s :) and it uses Ubuntu Single Signon
<pleia2> clicking "Login to edit" should redirect you to a page with instructions if you don't have an account
<cc_INC> GREAT!!! Thanks pleia2 very much appreciated.
<pleia2> sure
<cc_INC> You guys rock! Keep the vibe alive! I'm off to get some stuff done. Talk to you soon.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-07
<ochosi> finally published some screenshot of the thunar breadcrumbs i did last night: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KIXN7z_gwns/T9CPRQaw56I/AAAAAAAAAZk/woxQ5p2tuS8/s888/thunar-breadcrumbs.png
<ochosi> (there's an accompanying g+ post)
<martinphone> do you have plans to develope an easy and fast way to change proxy settings systemwide?
<pleia2> any details I should be telling people when they ask about our lack of an alpha1, aside from "we just don't have one this time"?
<GridCube> "alpha1? like in the power rangers? "
 * pleia2 is too old to understand power rangers references :\
<GridCube> you are too old to have been a teenager in the 90's?
<davmor2> sure there is only one power ranger and his name is "Walker"
 * GridCube flies to offtopic ~
<cody-somerville> Did Xubuntu not do alpha 1 release?
<Unit193> Nope.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-08
<martinphone> do you have plans to develope a systemwide proxy settings app?
<ochosi> martinphone: i think if it'll get implemented somewhere, it'll be in networkmanager
<ochosi> so no, no xubuntu-specific plans
<knome> pleia2, getting the calendar linked is WIP :)
<knome> seems like it was busy while i was away
<TheMaster> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/xubuntu/quantal/daily-20120608.log Still failing.
<knome> TheMaster, that's most probably since there is no xubuntu alpha 1
<knome> bbl
<TheMaster> knome: Nope, I was just reading wrong. :(
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-09
<knome> pleia2, ?
<hobgoblin> knome: what is the plan with the doc's thing? or is there not one yet
<knome> hobgoblin, there's some plans, but we still need to think about them, probably done on 17th
<hobgoblin> k
<hobgoblin> not sure if you know - but I am Kev/Elfy on that listing
<knome> i know
<hobgoblin> :)
<knome> i'm trying to get to it as soon as possible, but i don't want to rush and go "oops"
<hobgoblin> I understand - I've been running the forum tutorials to wiki thing and I have been doing exactly the same - walk before run :)
<knome> :)
<hobgoblin> not the sort of thing you would want to get wrong and then have to start again with
<knome> yeah..
<hobgoblin> anyway - time to put my feet up before daughter comes back from the town with a long list of things for dad to do :)
<knome> hehe - hf
<knome> bbl too
<pleia2> knome: that was my sleepy time
#xubuntu-devel 2012-06-10
<knome> pleia2, hmm, i thought you don't sleep
<knome> ugh - smooth scroll enabled in newest firefox - disabling
<astraljava> knome: She doesn't, she just occasionally hibernates.
<knome> mmh
<knome> astraljava, any plans for thursday?
<astraljava> Nothing yet, but I'm not sure on which day I'll take the foreign guest out for dinner.
<knome> k
<knome> follow-up on me when you do know
<astraljava> Sure, what did you have in mind?
<knome> we're planning to play NHL on PS3
<astraljava> Hahah!
<knome> we're at 4 people right now. :)
<knome> (and we have 5 controllers)
 * astraljava looks at the channel name and thinks whether this is a proper one for this :D
<knome> it is!
<knome> ;)
<knome> very much the proper channel O:)
<astraljava> But anyway, I'll let you know. :) Now, then. How do I find info on a nickserv account? I'd want to see when a user has last logged in.
<knome> no idea
<benonsoftware> astraljava: /msg NickServ info nickname
<astraljava> Danke!
<benonsoftware> ;)
 * astraljava is slightly amused by a user complaining about an operating system, while boasting about having written critical software for a stock market company, and failing to properly comment a block in his .sig file...
<knome> heh
<knome> -users ML has become a circus
<knome> brb
<knome> or, sometime
<knome> let's see
<pleia2> pfft, I love sleep
<pleia2> also, doing the Xubuntu section of the flavors class for User Days on the 24th and an "Everything you wanted to know about Xubuntu" talk for a LUG next month
 * pleia2 also told them she'd show off 4.10 at the LUG
<astraljava> Hah, /me read that as 'sod off'.
<knome> pleia2, if you need help doing that kind of stuff, ask for help :)
<pleia2> I think I will for the "everything you wanted to know" one, I'll give some nudges when I flesh out my notes more :)
<knome> good
<knome> you have a minute, or you busy?
<pleia2> I have time now
<knome> good, i'll PM again :)
<pleia2> (running out to a LUG meeting in 15 minutes or so)
<pleia2> k
<ochosi> hi everyone
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> i've been continuing to work on the breadcrumbs btw
<knome> :)
<ochosi> i made the active and hovered state also look like an arrow
<ochosi> it's a tad more consistent
<ochosi> otherwise hovering changes the button-size
<knome> i've been continuing to work on different breads, they've been more and less yummy
<ochosi> which can be unexpected
<ochosi> hmm, nice
<knome> ;)=
<knome> ochosi, so, anything else new?
<ochosi> i'm also working actively on the panel
<knome> good!
<ochosi> but i'm not sure which way to go with it
<ochosi> haven't found a style/direction i'm really satisfied with
<ochosi> actually the lack of padding between the window-buttons concerns me
<knome> mmhmm?
<ochosi> well atm it looks like a chain of strings separated by icons
<ochosi> that is less than ideal
<knome> heh
<knome> i suppose so yeah...
<ochosi> one more thing i'd like to fix is the behavior with semi-transparent panels
<knome> what's with that?
<ochosi> i want a selected-state of buttons that works with all kinds of semi-transparent backgrounds ideally
<knome> i'm not sure i follow
<ochosi> i'm also considering to move away from the flat-button look a bit
<ochosi> well if you have a semi-transparent, dark panel and a blue background, then a dark-blue selected state won't be very visible
<knome> moved to flat buttons in gtk but wanting to go away from flat buttons in panel? hmm..
<ochosi> well, "flat" buttons
<ochosi> they're not really flat, just shadow-less
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> i could imagine a similar style for the panel-buttons
<knome> hmm. i'm not sure if i'd like that
<knome> maybe on selected, but not inactive
<ochosi> inactive windows will most likely stay flat
<knome> good
<ochosi> in fact that's a property setting of the panel
<knome> :)
<ochosi> are you still opposed to semi-transparent panels?
<knome> i won't use them myself, but if they are default.. well maybe.
<knome> we'd have to have a good disussion about this on the meeting
<knome> i mean, is it ok to enable compositor by default anyway
<knome> (both yes/no worksforme, but i'd like to know what others think)
<ochosi> there haven't really been any complaints about it
<ochosi> so i'm not sure it's a problem
<ochosi> the setting for that is rather hidden though
<knome> no, but otoh, many users want to disable it
<ochosi> which could be both an argument for enabling or disabling it
<knome> yes, otoh it's easy to do toggle, but yes, it's quite hidden
<ochosi> good docs would fix that though
<knome> good docs or a slide at the installation slideshow
<ochosi> mhm
<knome> i think we might want to review the slideshow this cycle for real
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> really add some new stuff, maybe tweak the style just a notch
<knome> but that comes with the new docs
<ochosi> yeah, different information might be good
<ochosi> not just default apps
<knome> i've added a work item to the blueprint
<ochosi> k
<mr_pouit> micahg: hey, any idea whether gegl works without libavcodec? (I think ffmpeg libs are banned from ubuntu isos, and libgegl depends on libavcodec53, I guess that's what has been breaking our dailies for some time)
<mr_pouit> otherwise we'll kick gimp from the default install
<micahg> mr_pouit: we were talking about removing it so we could demote libav and solve the libav/libav-extra split
<micahg> mr_pouit: also, I think it was just banned from pressed media, not ISOs in general
<ochosi> knome: starting to explore some palettes on colourlovers.com btw
<ochosi> there are really nice palettes there
<knome> ochosi, aha, good luck :)
<ochosi> have you used that page/portal before?
<knome> well yeah, it's easy to create a good looking palette, much harder to create a working palette
<ochosi> sure
<knome> i've used at least something similar, but never used any of the palettes
<ochosi> this one looks a bit like greybird: http://www.colourlovers.com/palette/2222351/Feeling_Blue
<ochosi> it could be useful for re-coloring the menus etc
<knome> maybe
<knome> bbl, maybe tomorrow
<knome> hf/nighty
<ochosi> alright
<ochosi> seeya
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-03
<bluesabre> Unit193: where in the repos?  I don't see it, even with proposed enabled
<Unit193> bluesabre: Saucy proposed (universe) - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword
<bluesabre> ah, looks like they've not been published yet
<bluesabre> I look forward to testing those and watching my doc files get turned to mush
<Unit193> Dowh, crap... This is a bad day for me...
<Unit193> I'm sorry.
<bluesabre> think abiword will ever handle doc files well?
<OvenWerks> I always end up removing abi for libre for my wife. It works better between that and that other wordwrecker
<Unit193> Eh, who knows.  Docx is the new kid anyway.  LibreOffice does better, and that's what I have.
<OvenWerks> We have a desktop file we put at the top of the office menu that opens USC pointed at libreoffice. We don't want to ship it. Yoou are welcome to a copy. (or steal it from our -settings)
<OvenWerks> LSC doesn't have that feature (yet?)
<micahg> mr_pouit: knome: re: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Saucy/EnablingXubuntuDevelopers, there's already a xubuntu packageset, see http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/saucy/xubuntu
<micahg> Unit193: people should not be running things out of proposed in the devel release as it's unstable
<Unit193> Sorry.
<skellat> micahg: The packageset is there but from what I could gather from the DMB documentation...there isn't a team that actually "owns" the packageset
<skellat> micahg: The packageset is defined but has no uploaders as compared to say Kubuntu: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/saucy/kubuntu
<micahg> skellat: that's an implementation detail that we'll fix when needed
<micahg> Unit193: I meant to look at the build failure for abiword, but have been lacking time and won't have any until Wed most probably
<Unit193> micahg: Oh sure, sure.
<micahg> someone fixed the build failure, now so rdeps need fixing for it to migrate
<skellat> micahg: Did I fill this out right: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/skellat/skellatDeveloperApplication
<skellat> ?
<micahg> skellat: you're not ready for upload rights, you have no sponsored uploads and only 2 sponsored syncs AFAICY
<micahg> *AFAICT
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> No problemo
<micahg> if you want PPU for xubuntu-docs, that should be doable once you've had some sponsored updates to that package
<micahg> FWIW, it looks filled out properly
 * skellat recognizes he is an apparatchik of the worst sort
<skellat> I'll take the MoinMoin text, save it to local disk, and nuke the page for now
<micahg> skellat: heh, as long as it's not on the agenda, it can sit there and you can keep refining until you're ready
<skellat> I do need a clarification as to what "sponsored update" to the package is.  I have had merges accepted.
<micahg> skellat: and the help is much appreciated, but I think you were pushed a little too soon
<micahg> skellat: sponsored update is where you prepare an entire new version that only needs an uploader to set the series (or in some cases you can do this) and upload
<skellat> Ah
<micahg> your name is in the changelog in the uploader line
<skellat> I gotta go back and re-read the sponsored upload documentation.  I keep feeling like I am missing a step or two
<micahg> accepted merges can help towards something like dev membership without upload rights, but you're already an Ubuntu member
<Unit193> (Does uploading to Debian count?)
<micahg> not for Ubuntu membership (though it does look good on an application :))
<micahg> well, it helps such that you show competence with a package
<skellat> Unit193 has Ubuntu membership too
<Unit193> Many people do...
<skellat> Unit193: 774 people on-planet have Ubuntu Membership
<skellat> As of my last check earlier tonight
<skellat> We have 6 people in the Ohio LoCo with such including me and you (Unit193)
<micahg> I will catch up with email eventually...feel free to ping me if there's something I need to see
<skellat> micahg: I just need to find better documentation on the sponsored upload process
<skellat> This is what I do have for sponsored upload process documentation on the Ubuntu side: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-sponsorship.html
<micahg> docs might have their own process, idk
<skellat> Xubuntu is diverging from Ubuntu Documentation Project on that
<skellat> I think
<skellat> And I don't think bkerensa has that addressed yet at UDP level
<skellat> Hmm
<micahg> ok, well, the basic idea is to prepare the upload as if you had upload rights (with UNRELEASED in the changelog if you're using bzr) and poke someone to upload (either with a bug + sponsors team subscribed, bzr merge into UDD branch, poke on IRC for the exceptions where the other 2 don't make sense)
<micahg> * poke someone to *review* and upload
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> That I can do
<skellat> After I get some sleep
<skellat> Writing text at this hour of night is one thing.  Making bzr go kaboom happens way too easily at this hour for me.
 * micahg is heading to sleep, will check scrollback sometime tomorrow
 * skellat bids goodnight too
<Unit193> 'Night.
<knome> i believe i've done a (semi-)"sponsored upload" with docs, with not really trying to achieve that, just doing what we need to get packages uploaded :P
<Unit193> Best way to do it.
<knome> definitely.
<knome> i don't think upload rights have any absolute value for me
<ochosi> i think splitting the work is actually not a bad idea
<ochosi> ofc it's also not bad if we all have upload-rights additionally
<Unit193> (That may be bad.)
<ochosi> but the workload for each individual might increase if everyone has to upload their own stuff
<knome> ochosi, i'm not saying it wouldn't be good. i'm just saying that i don't necessarily need package upload permissions, because 1) i'm not a developer and require other people to work on changes to most packages (excluding some artwork, docs, settings stuff) and 2) i don't specifically *want* to to uploads
<ochosi> yeah, i wasn't arguing for or against what you said, mostly adding my pov to the conversation
<ochosi> (and yeah, i'm not sure i wanna do uploads either, i feel my capacities are quite fully used as it is)
<knome> i probably could, but then i'd want to drop other stuff, and that doesn't work while i'm XPL; when i'm not, i probably don't want to do that anymore as much
<ochosi> for me it'd mean we'd have to e.g. drop maintenance of themes
<ochosi> i mean of the other themes, and only focus on Greybird
<Unit193> Bleh, nooooooo.
<Unit193> That means Blackbird gets even less.
<ochosi> Unit193: you mean you'd rather try to get upload rights yourself? :}
<Unit193> ochosi: Is that a good idea?  Just ask mi<tab>
<ochosi> wouldn't know why not
<knome> me neither
<Unit193> At least I'm learning.
<knome> motivation gets you far.
<knome> (that's you in the broader sense (as well))
<mr_pouit> micahg: this package set is missing most panel plugins and contains things we don't care about (lyx? really?)
<mr_pouit> and people (bluesabre, ochosi) who want to gain upload right for the package set could do the merges from unstable to saucy (I haven't touched anything but the ppa).
<bluesabre> mr_pouit: I would be interested in helping with the merges
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> in addition to the other packages in our package set that ochosi and I are maintaining
<bluesabre> released lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6.0, parole 0.5.1, and catfish 0.6.4 today
<bluesabre> (going to do sponsored uploads for those)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-04
<amerigena> the final issue of the magazine that some of us wrote for, is it available yet?
<micahg> mr_pouit: that's fine, if we want the panel plugins, we should add them to supported
<micahg> mr_pouit: FWIW, we're using lyx on the live image
<micahg> fonts-lyx to be specific
<skellat> What's depending upon fonts-lyx on the live image?
<micahg> abiword-plugin-mathview <- abiword
<skellat> Okay.  And we want to ship a full abiword instead of a crippled one.
<skellat> :-D
<micahg> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/xubuntu.saucy/rdepends/ALL/fonts-lyx FTR
<skellat> Got it.
<bluesabre> micahg, mr_pouit: my first package uploaded to debian mentors: mentors.debian.net/package/catfish
<bluesabre> care to sponsor?
<Unit193> bluesabre: One lintian info in the source package  I: catfish source: vcs-field-not-canonical svn://svn.debian.org/python-apps/packages/catfish/trunk/ svn://anonscm.debian.org/python-apps/packages/catfish/trunk/
<Unit193> bluesabre: Lintian output for the binary build: http://paste.ukikie.tk/?928c26bc7daf5de0#CKidXGHXRlmGmRSSo+FXmyrUCbYIc6l+Ag8LVTpJqVs=
<OvenWerks> bluesabre: With regard to the Xubuntu menu and menu editing...
<OvenWerks> moving the line <DefaultMergeDirs/> To be the second last line in the xfce-applications.menu makes peruser menu editing so much easier.
<OvenWerks> It allows the merged file lines to get parsed after the stock file lines. Other wise the stock menu setup takes presidence
<OvenWerks> I have to pick up my son from school, but will do a bug agaist it later.
<pleia2> knome: pretty sure no one wants their magazine money (I need to go through all the emails tonight)
<knome> bleh
<pleia2> all variations of wanting to give it to the project
<knome> that's $480
<pleia2> actually, Inoki did reply to me, he may have sent in his info, I'll follow-up
<pleia2> s/did/didn't
<Unit193> Yeah, but you can't donate to Xubuntu, no?
<pleia2> no, it's not really a thing to donate to
<knome> i'm starting to get semi-uncomfortable with this
<Unit193> Oh?
<genii> I guess everyone just gets spiffy new blue shirts and maybe some posters ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-05
<micahg_> bluesabre: neither mr_pouit nor I are DDs, also, I think you can reuse versions on mentors (not 100% sure), the Debian Python Apps team would be the team to join to get review/sponsoring, it's kept in their VCS
<Unit193> micahg: Yes, you can.
<pleia2> need to reply to Joan's proposal, but my brain is full lately
<Unit193> knome: Did you see that Gmail does video now too?
<knome> Unit193, no
<knome> Unit193, i was thinking about getting rid of one or two gmail accounts the other day ;)
<Unit193> Nuke 'em all! :P
<knome> eventually maybe
<knome> i still have four free google apps for domain
<bluesabre> ah, micahg, I thought one of you was a DD, I'll check with the Python Apps team
<bluesabre> Unit193: when are those lintian errors displayed?
<ochosi> hm, plymouth could really use some multi-monitor scaling improvements...
<ochosi> rowboatnick: ^ :)
<ochosi> rowboatnick: and don't change your _nick_ so often!
<rowboatnick> :(
<rowboatnick> ochosi: ye, im not entirely sure it gives you 2 screens to work on
<rowboatnick> i will look tho
<ochosi> well from what i can say now is that i get plymouth on both screens (vga,dvi) but none of the two has the correct resolution or is even fullscreen :)
<ochosi> i could try to test ubuntu's plymouth theme and see whether theirs works
<rowboatnick> perhaps it uses the combined width?
<rowboatnick> I will see if the screen functions can be indexed
<rowboatnick> bug #572155
<ubottu> bug 572155 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Splash image wrong size when two displays connected" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/572155
<ochosi> that'd be nice
<rowboatnick> ochosi: are your monitors using the same resolution?
<ochosi> nope
<rowboatnick> good, then my question for them is valid
<ochosi> 1280x1024 + 1680x1050
<rowboatnick> ochosi: I get back to you as soon as I get an answer
<ochosi> rowboatnick: okie, thanks
<rowboatnick> ochosi: 
<rowboatnick> ochosi: I did get repsonses from the plymouth guys, and yes. One can now get the measurement from each screen
<Unit193> bluesabre: When I run lintian?  Source ones are checked on dpkg-buildpackage/debuild/etc -S, binary is checked on the resulting .changes file after it's built.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-06
<pleia2> knome: thoughts about approaching a place like unixstickers.com to do the sticker dirty work for us?
<knome> pleia2, i'm not familiar with them, but why not if it's useful/easy
<elfy> knome: you about later this evening?
<elfy> hi pleia2 
<knome> elfy, possibly
<elfy> k
<knome> going to be away fri-wed/thu
<pleia2> hey elfy 
<elfy> knome: it can wait if necessary or I can talk to someone else 
<knome> feel free to go ahead and talk here and people who know can answer ;)
<elfy> yea
<elfy> :)
<knome> pleia2, looked at unixstickers.com and why not
<pleia2> ok, have an email half-drafted, I'll complete and send
<pleia2> I also really need to reply to Joan's proposal on list
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> knome: don't go away yet
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-07
<knome> pleia2, ?
<pleia2> hi2u
<knome> announced next community meeting
<knome> i'm off now
<pleia2> added the next meeting to our calendar
<ochosi> pleia2: could you send me the url of the xubuntu calendar, so far i haven't added it to my gcal
<pleia2> I can try
<pleia2> https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=383qgn907l43kd425bteqjg850@group.calendar.google.com
<ochosi> pleia2: ok, using the email address from that url actually worked, thanks!
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> bottom right corner it had a little icon to add it to your own calendars
<pleia2> but I find those work about 30% of the time ;)
<pleia2> wonky goog calendar
<ochosi> oh, that was such a strange banner without explanatory text that i didn't dare to click it
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> could be that's not what it means and that's why I don't think it works
<ochosi> hehe
#xubuntu-devel 2013-06-08
<zequence> knome: We got a new contributor who does some php coding, so he'll probably be playing around with your theme. I would ask you, but I'm thinking you have plenty to do already. I will, if I need to later on though :)
<zequence> We're using either local installs, or the staging site I put up earlier, http://ubuntustudio.mousike.me
<zequence> The plan is we do an overhaul on the site for the release of 14.04
<zequence> We have an artist working on theming, which will be used for not only the site
<zequence> He actually used your theming for the website as reference for our social sites
<zequence> https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/102125777892703446963/102125777892703446963/posts
<zequence> https://www.facebook.com/Ubuntustudio
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-02
<zequence> So, what's the deal with the new core seed? What's the plan there?
<Unit193> Something you can install from mini.iso that doesn't depend on all the extra packages, to get a more custom system.
<zequence> Are you going to make -desktop depend on -core?
<zequence> I'm assuming they will both have the same core components
<Unit193> They do.
<Unit193> Core has nothing added, of course.
<zequence> Yeah, but right now, -core is a minimal duplicate of -desktop, where I would rather remove in -desktop what is already in -core and make -desktop depend on -core
<zequence> Since it's not that way now, I was wondering if they are meant to have the same core
<Unit193> Can do that to some extent, but core does drop some deps to recommends, so those would have to stay at least.
<zequence> Isn't it also the other way around? Some recommends have become dependencies
<ochosi> we can consider that, for now i think we should give testers some time to give feedback
<ochosi> the seed file maybe isn't final yet and needs more tweaking
<Unit193> zequence: Yes, yes it does.
<zequence> Well, I would be interested in testing your -core with Ubuntu Studio, so that is why I have a special interest in that.
<Unit193> zequence: Cool, we haven't set out testing, but there will be two ways to install it, one that gives you more minimal of a system.  You can try it with tasksel+mini.iso now, but we haven't updated the meta so the package 'xubuntu-core' doesn't exist yet.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-03
<olbi> hi guys, are there any xubuntu 14.04.1 images on ther servers?
<ali1234> no because 14.04.1 isn't out until july
<xnox> olbi: and we haven't yet started building trusty daily images (in the run up to 14.04.1 release)
<olbi> so now only updateded will be translations? :)
<olbi> I need to know when will be pushed all Polish Translations from Transifex, to Git and than to deb packages into Xubuntu repos :-) cause there are so many changes which aren't in Proposed repos
<Unit193> === Xubuntu community meeting in 50 minutes - #xubuntu-devel ===
<slickymaster> !team | meeting time!
<ubottu> meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<slickymaster> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun  3 20:00:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is slickymaster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pleia2> o/
<slickymaster> So, who's here for the meeting?
<forestpiskie> o/
<slickymaster> Unit193, will you just be lurking?
<Unit193> Generally, unless otherwise.
<slickymaster> #topic Open action items
<slickymaster> Unit193 anything on the Trello bot for interaction with the board from within IRC?
<slickymaster> I do have to apologise for forgeting to add the items to the meeting agenda. My bad :P
<Unit193> slickymaster: Just xubutrello: help
<elfy> I can tell you there's not :)
<slickymaster> one other thing Unit193, you were to propose a new installable metapackage, right?
<Unit193> #info xubuntu-core seed changes have been merged, task is installable now and the package will be installable next xubuntu-meta upload.
<slickymaster> great
<pleia2> cool :)
<slickymaster> the other open action items I had concern ochosi, knome and bluesabre, but since they absent I'll move along
<slickymaster> #action knome to create a Trello account
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to create a Trello account
<Unit193> Testing is waiting for the meta upload, of course.
<elfy> there are a lot of team not with a trello account
<slickymaster> do you know if lderan has made any progress in the UI for the panel-switch application Unit193?
<Unit193> elfy: Not that much, really.
<Unit193> slickymaster: No idea.
<elfy> Unit193: ~25%
<slickymaster> elfy, regarding GTK3 apps for autopilot (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-qa) do you want to info anything?
<elfy> nothing to info at present
<elfy> not seen lderan for a while
<slickymaster> #action team members still without Trello account should create one asap
<meetingology> ACTION: team members still without Trello account should create one asap
<slickymaster> ok, moving on
<slickymaster> #topic Team updates
<slickymaster> anything?
<elfy> few
<elfy> a few :p
<elfy> #info Very little package testing being done
<elfy> #info Images currently uninstallable
<elfy> done
<Unit193> slickymaster: You have one for docs, the translations no longer pass checks.
<slickymaster> I haven't checked that yet Unit193 
<slickymaster> I'm going to poke you on that, if you don't mind me doing it Unit193 
 * slickymaster is in doubt if the Devian liaison and XTL should be announced or not
<elfy> I'd guess not
<slickymaster> that's my thoughts also
<slickymaster> #topic Discussion
<elfy> but the Debian one was a "I'm saying this" unless anyone says no on the m/l
<slickymaster> #subtopic Move call for translations from 14.10 to 14.04.1
<slickymaster> Unit193 brougth this to my attention 
<slickymaster> and as a matter of fact I was already thinking of it
<slickymaster> does anyone has thoughts/opinions on the subject
<elfy> I've no idea what you're talking about :)
<slickymaster> elfy https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-docs
<slickymaster> one of the items in the docs-blueprint is a call for translations, since we just have two languages translated
<elfy> slickymaster: if this sort of thing can be dated - would be useful to get it on trello with dates 
<slickymaster> yes, agree
<Unit193> I think I said it the other way around, actually.
<Unit193> elfy: It's already there.
<slickymaster> Unit193m the other way around as in...?
<elfy> Unit193: I must be blind then
<slickymaster> not seeing it neither
<Unit193> slickymaster: Move from 14.04.1 to 14.10.
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 66 link
<xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/xss9yOWH/66-run-a-call-for-translators-for-the-documentation
<elfy> Unit193: got it 
<slickymaster> initially it was planned to 14.10, not to the first point release
<slickymaster> or am I going crazy?
<elfy> no idea 
<slickymaster> but my idea of anticipate the call was mainly to try to start something
<slickymaster> the way I see it, there's too much inertia regarding the translations
<slickymaster> people just seem to don't give a damn about it and IMO it's something important that should be delt with
<slickymaster> anyway we can postpone it to the next meeting
<slickymaster> #subtopic systemd
<slickymaster> are we going to track it?
<Unit193> Well, I was, but not specifically for Xubuntu.
<slickymaster> from kernel 3.15.0-4 onward it's going to be default
<elfy> slickymaster: where did you read that? 
<elfy> I've not seen anything to say that on m/l's
<slickymaster> I got that idea from Martin Pitt's mail to the ubuntu-devel ML
<elfy> Utopic boot broken: What now?
<elfy> that mail?
<Unit193> If so, that was an upload error that's been fixed.
<slickymaster> yes, from 5 days ago
<slickymaster> or I completely misread it Unit193
<elfy> not sure that's saying that systemd is being used default, just a way to boot those machines 
<Unit193> Exactly.
<slickymaster> elfy, most probably I misread it
<slickymaster> anyway, Unit193 do you mind if I add an action item for you, regarding tracking systemd and xubuntu?
<elfy> pretty sure that we don't really need to do much for a cycle or so tbh
<Unit193> Well, not really sure what that'd mean exactly, but I'm generally keeping up with it.  But yes, we shouldn't really need to do much/anything.
<Unit193> But otherwise, sounds fine.
<slickymaster> okie dokie, we'll drop it for now
<slickymaster> that just leave us with the schedule of the next meeting
<slickymaster> which I believe will be pleia2's
<slickymaster> chairing
<slickymaster> #action #action pleia2 to announce the next meeting time
<elfy> believe so
<meetingology> ACTION: #action pleia2 to announce the next meeting time
<pleia2> weekly or bi-weekly?
<slickymaster> I'll wrap this one
<slickymaster> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun  3 20:38:35 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-06-03-20.00.moin.txt
<elfy> thanks slickymaster 
<Unit193> xubutrello: due soon
<xubutrello>   ->  1. Suite B Call (id: 15) due: 2014-06-09 11:00:00 UTC from list: To Do 14.10
<xubutrello>   ->  2. Package testcases (id: 29) due: 2014-06-06 11:00:00 UTC from list: Doing 14.10
<Unit193> slickymaster: Thanks.
<elfy> pleia2: weekly atm
<pleia2> ok
<elfy> though tbh I'm not sure it needs to be atm
<slickymaster> thanks guys, just fot joining me in my agony
<slickymaster> minutes are up
<pleia2> thanks slickymaster, I'll update the team report in a bit
<slickymaster> Unit193 just going to have some sort of a dinner than I'll take a look at that link
<elfy> pleia2: so - I'd be happy with fortnightly unless there's any reason to do it weekly
<Unit193> Food is good, yes.
<pleia2> elfy: I'm out of town starting next thursday for a week+, so no go in 2 weeks for me
<pleia2> next week is ok though
<elfy> heh
<pleia2> and next week is the ubuntu online summit, which I assume we're not participating in
<Unit193> Do we have a reason to?
<pleia2> no, it's too late in the cycle to be useful, and the restrictive time zones make it kind of meh
<slickymaster> but you're going to be persent pleia2, aren't you?
<Unit193> And we didn't want to run our own like a couple cycles ago?
<slickymaster> * present
<elfy> I don't think we missed having one last cycle
<Unit193> Nope.
<elfy> but if people did want - I'd be open to it
<pleia2> slickymaster: only for a few sessions on tuesday and wednesday, in the air on thursday
<pleia2> re UOW
<Unit193> elfy: OK, so that one is due soon, have you checked all the testcases or are there some left for me?
<elfy> Unit193: I've not started yet
<Unit193> Cool, then there's some for me.
<elfy> yep - just let me know which you've checked :)
<Unit193> Via card or here?
<elfy> if there are issues - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
<elfy> put it on the card and I'll check there
<elfy> just add a new one - wfm
<Unit193> Bah, dang testcases.  I run one and find a bug. :/
<ochosi> hey everyone
<ochosi> sorry, i'm having a tough week
<ochosi> ton of work and travelling, sorry i couldn't make it to the meeting today
<ochosi> thanks for pulling it through slickymaster 
<Noskcaj> Did i miss anything in the meeting? I didn't wake up i time to see it all
<ochosi> i think there wasn't too much going on, many missed it
<Unit193> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-06-03-20.00.html
<Noskcaj> Can someone add me to the trello?
 * ochosi will try
<ochosi> Noskcaj: done
<Noskcaj> thanks
<ochosi> np
<Unit193> Noskcaj: You are Noskcaj, right?
<Noskcaj> should i add the upower transition to trello?
<Noskcaj> yep
<Noskcaj> ;)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> Noskcaj: we're still exploring a bit what we can do with trello, so i suggest you add everything you think makes sense
<Unit193> Why?  It's not an Xubuntu thing really, is it?  Wouldn't that be like adding the libav9 -> libav10?
<ochosi> i guess transitions make sense
<ochosi> Unit193: well if it breaks xfce4-session and xfpm, it kinda does concern us
<Noskcaj> Unit193, it involves patches to xfce was my reasoning
<Unit193> ochosi: Than that's a reason why. :)
<ochosi> (just examples, i think i saw a longer list for xfce related packages)
<ochosi> Unit193: Than? really? :)
<ochosi> ok there you go, list of packages upower0.99 might break: http://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/sys-power/upower
<Noskcaj> xfpm, session, settings, systemload, and sorta weather-plugin
<Unit193> ochosi: Summer -> brain in fried mode 79% of the time.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: feel free to add a link to that list ^
<ochosi> ah ok :)
<ochosi> Unit193: oh sure, how convenient ;)
<Unit193> Not really. :/
<ochosi> anyway, gotta go
<ochosi> night everyone
<Unit193> G'night.
<Unit193> andrzejr: https://unit193.net/clear-indicators.png doesn't look right, have you seen it?
<andrzejr> Unit193, no! :-)
<andrzejr> thanks
<andrzejr> strange, what should I use instead of deprecated GTK_STOCK_CLEAR?
<Unit193> edit-clear
<Unit193> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk3-Stock-Items.html#GTK-STOCK-CLEAR:CAPS
<andrzejr> that's what it is now
<andrzejr> but "gtk-clear" seems to work
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<andrzejr> interestingly, the same document contains: "#define GTK_STOCK_CLEAR            ((GtkStock)"gtk-clear")"
<andrzejr> I guess that's a gtk documentation error then.
<andrzejr> fixed in master
<slickymaster> Unit193, do you think it's viable to have docs translations credits in time for .1 release?
<Unit193> andrzejr: Great!
<Unit193> slickymaster: Think that was the plan.
<slickymaster> ok, just checking :P
<Unit193> slickymaster: Remember, you're the lead, I really don't know except for what's been said before.  You got a date for that translations call?
<slickymaster> Unit193, I'm thinking of making one in about a week in ML
<Unit193> Erm, for 14.10?  Want to do it after most of the docs are frozen, I'd think.
<slickymaster> I was still thinking in .1
<Unit193> Ah, OK.
<slickymaster> wouldn't it be doable?
<Unit193> I don't know the policy on SRU'ing translations.
<slickymaster> do you think it should be dropped for .1 and only target to utopic?
<slickymaster> you and me both :P
<Unit193> I don't know, LTS is supposed to mean something, right?
<slickymaster> I'll have to look into that, before making the call
<knome> historically, i don't think translations are usually considered SRU candidates
<knome> that doesn't mean that with good argumenting we couldn't get those in
<slickymaster> byt in pratical terms do you see it as doable?
<slickymaster> /byt/but
<knome> if you want a better, more accurate opinion (tm), you probably should be directly in contact with the SRU team
<slickymaster> I mean, the only viable candidates would be the russian, and it would be great if it gets finished
<knome> i think it would be nice to get more languages in, but in a way, i'm more interested in getting the credits in.
<Unit193> ^ Wants his name in again. ;)
<knome> well, i would be okay dropping my name, for the sake of it...
<knome> it's just that i think it would make it easier to attract new translators
<slickymaster> well were just 5-6 weeks before .1 release
<slickymaster> and from your reasoning, I think I better re-target that call for U
<knome> we've kind of said we'll include more translations for .1
<knome> and there will be more point releases
<slickymaster> I do agree with knome, crediting could potencially attract more translators
<knome> will the decision taken now affect those as well?
<knome> or are we willing to do an SRU if it brings us more than one language?
<slickymaster> if that were to happen, I don't see why we shouldn't
<slickymaster> one thing Unit193, those parser errors in http://paste.progval.net/show/QrIXUBSeNKm5J4jnidmH/ are caused by what?
<knome> seems like the xubuntu.ent file is missing, or not properly loaded
<slickymaster> one of the reasons behind my idea of anticipating the call for translators from U to .1 was exactly that it was said that we'd include more translations for .1
<Unit193> knome: I'm kidding, you did a lot of work on FI, it'd be silly to drop it.
<knome> Unit193, drop fi? yeah. ;)
<knome> slickymaster, well the slight problem with that is that the U docs have a different target from the .1 docs.
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<Unit193> slickymaster: Also, not really sure, same build methods.
<slickymaster> yes, but the fact still remains
<knome> i'm off tomorrow and most of thursday, but after that, i could poke a/some SRU team member(s) to ask if they would approve the translation update to begin with.
<knome> then we can consider if we want to do it or not
<knome> if they deem it as "sure, go ahead", then i see little reason *not* to do that
<slickymaster> that's a good plan
<knome> but if they are more like 50/50, then we might consider if we really want to do the work
<knome> especially as it seems to be only one language now
<knome> Unit193, or, more to come?
<slickymaster> I should go to bed. I'm not Unit193 and I'm awake for 20 hours now
<Unit193> slickymaster: Good night.
<slickymaster> lol
<knome> night slickymaster 
<Unit193> knome: The only one that's been making progress is en_GB. :P
<knome> uh
<knome> what about es?
<knome> how close?
<Unit193> es.po   48.9024%
<Unit193> ja.po   32.439%
<Unit193> ru.po   65.7317%
<slickymaster> and the french Unit193?
<Unit193> fr.po   46.7073%
<bluesabre> en_AU?
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> bluesabre, forget about that, it's just typoed english
<bluesabre> haha
<slickymaster> now I'm really off
<knome> nighty
<slickymaster> cy tomorrow all ->
<Unit193> knome: Can you disable some translations on LP?
<knome> i don't think so
<Unit193> knome: Heh, for one thing I forgot to s/trusty/utopic/ .bzr/branch/branch.conf -i
<Unit193> I mean it's still not working, but now I'm on the right branch.
<knome> i've no idea what you're talking about ;)
<Unit193> I was on the trusty branch, not the utopic branch.  It's still broken, however.
<knome> aha
<Unit193> You did say you get these issues too, right?
<knome> entities missing?
<knome> no, i haven't poked the branch in ages, just looked what david's paste looked like
<Unit193> That was mine.
<knome> oh
<knome> again, off tomorrow and most of thu, and fri might go working with clients, but i should be available after that
<Unit193> Dangit, clean chroot has no issues. >_+
<knome> :)
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> have fun
<Unit193> This doesn't make sense, I have all the required deps to build it, from the official repos, and no modifications...
<Unit193> Bye.
<knome> heh.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-04
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1321445 describes a problem with the testcase, should the affected package be changed to something different?
<ubottu> bug 1321445 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "enable sound events in xfce4-appearance-settings doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1321445
<elfy> depends if there's something wrong with what got tested 
<elfy> the bug says that something doesn't work - testcase says it does - so at some point who ever wrote the testcase got the sound to work
<elfy> so - where's the bug :)
<brainwash> mmh, right
<brainwash> but we don't support event sounds ootb
<brainwash> or at least I never heard any so far :)
<elfy> poor old deaf people
<Unit193> Poor elfy.
<brainwash> maybe we want to make sound events work in xubuntu.. or is this some useless gimmick? just like the spinning/busy cursor?
<elfy> no idea - nothing to do with me :)
<brainwash> or me, I was just pointing out the bug in the testcase
<brainwash> so, which should the report be assigned to then?
<brainwash> package
<brainwash> or target
<elfy> I've not got time to check it now 
<brainwash> ok
<elfy> put it on the blueprint - it'll remind me to look
<elfy> not the QA one 
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=c79f244f8f1f2d08892a54cbb820211abad3287d hmm.
<Noskcaj> Any idea which patch for session i should take for upower 0.99?
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: you around?
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, bug 1326309
<ubottu> bug 1326309 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "lightdm-gtk-greeter crashed with SIGABRT in __libc_message()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1326309
<slickymasterWork> ?! the bot maybe sleeping
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-05
<Noskcaj> Any idea which patch for session i should take for upower 0.99?
<Noskcaj> The upstream bug has 4 different ones
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i'd say wait a bit, let's ask around
<ochosi> Noskcaj: in case i forget, please add it to the meeting agenda for the next meeting
<ochosi> pleia2: please announce the next meeting asap, thanks! :)
<elfy> ochosi: hi - I thought you'd run away :)
<ochosi> yeah, i have to now, in fact
<elfy> bye
<pleia2> oh bother, right
<pleia2> same time as this week, I'll announce momentarily
<ochosi> this is a bit of a terrible week for me
<elfy> I'd noticed :)
<ochosi> but i'll be back on sunday/monday
<elfy> we all get them 
<ochosi> anyway, let's get things a bit on track until the next meeting
<ochosi> have a nice day, folks!
<pleia2> oh bother, the summit
<elfy> monday perhaps 
<elfy> bbl
<pleia2> oh wait, it ends at 2000 anyway
<pleia2> see you guys
<ochosi> hm, they want a panel for "favours"...
<ochosi> :p
<ochosi> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-June/010244.html
<ochosi> i'm not entirely sure we need a panel
<ochosi> if you guys think otherwise, let me know
<ochosi> bbl
<pleia2> no
 * elfy is no too
<pleia2> the timing of this summit is a bit silly for us, we've already done plany things ;)
<elfy> the timing of this summit is a bit silly for everyone, we've already done plany things ;)
<pleia2> yeah, that
<elfy> fixed that for you :p
<elfy> work calls - cya :)
<pleia2> hehe
<ochosi> Unit193: before i forget, please fill in your TZ here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Leaders
 * pleia2 fixes her name too
<Unit193> Actual or one I go by? ;)
<Unit193> Sure.
 * pleia2 hits save
<pleia2> Unit193: all yours
<Unit193> Danke.
<pleia2> ok, maybe I go sleepies now
<Unit193> I put mine in standard, no DST.
<ali1234> ochosi: i think we should do a panel at UOS
<Noskcaj> Did we need to sru the xfpm patch i enabled a few days ago?
<brainwash> Noskcaj: which patch?
<Noskcaj> 10_inhibit_logind.patch
<brainwash> right, we want that
<brainwash> but doesn't a sru report already exist?
<Noskcaj> idk
<Noskcaj> it was done while i was away
<brainwash> it's not in trusty-proposed yet
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> I did not follow the status of this, actually thought that it was already officially fixed/released
<brainwash> so backport it please :)
<brainwash> strange, didn't people test 1.2.0-3ubuntu5 and confirmed that it solves the issue?
<brainwash> but only ubuntu6 applies the patch correctly
<brainwash> ah, most people used the xubuntu ppa
<gry> what is sru?
<brainwash> gry: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<brainwash> Noskcaj: does ubuntu sync from debian experimental?
<gry> ok
<Noskcaj> brainwash, not automatically, but we can
<brainwash> https://packages.debian.org/experimental/xfce4-appfinder
<brainwash> I guess we want that at some point before 14.10
<Noskcaj> brainwash, I've got to turn my pc off now, but you can sync it by test building in a PPA or chroot, the running "requestsync xfce4-appfinder -d experimental"
<Noskcaj> g'night
<brainwash> ah, ok
<brainwash> good night
<bluesabre> brainwash, Noskcaj, it's in utopic, doing the sru paperwork now
<bluesabre> haven't had a lot of online time lately
<bluesabre> will try to get the backport packages in here today...
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1326741
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1326741 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please backport light-locker-settings 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1326740
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1326740 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please backport xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu6 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> brb
<Unit193> Man, that's a few (including lightdm-gtk-greeter and menulibre...)
<bluesabre> yeah, got some uploads to do when I get home
<bluesabre> I think I'm just going to rebuild the greeter package
<bluesabre> since my uploaded one seems to fail
<qwebirc687521> bluesabre, as you're talking about it, my greeter completely blew out yesterday on my utopic box
<bluesabre> Unit193, how can I view the contents of trusty-proposed?
<bluesabre> hm, marked as fixed, but not in proposed
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> bbl
<elfy> hey mhall119 :p
<mhall119> hey elfy
<mhall119> had to reboot my always-on IRC box
<elfy> :)
<RobertJDohnert> Anything new going on fellas
<RobertJDohnert> WTF is a Utopic Unicorn
<Unit193> !utopic
<ubottu> Ubuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) is the next development release of Ubuntu due for release in October 2014. Support in #ubuntu+1. For more info, see the announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1363
<ochosi> evening everyone
<elfy> hi ochosi :)
<shadeslayer> hey ho
<shadeslayer> any devs around?
<shadeslayer> and anyone interested in having a session about xubuntu @ UOS?
<ochosi> depends on what you want/need, i guess
<shadeslayer> specifically for the ubuntu development track
<ochosi> well, i'm fairly +0, but ali1234 said he would be interested
<shadeslayer> ooh
<shadeslayer> ali1234: give me a ping, or better yet, propose a session
<ochosi> frankly i'm not sure, the thing is that in the past UOS didn't seem like we'd get much cooperation going between us and others
<shadeslayer> http://uds.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/propose-a-session/
<elfy> and times were awful
<ochosi> it seemed like holding a team meeting, but in a larger public
<ochosi> if you know what i mean
<shadeslayer> ochosi: I think this is a pretty good platform to bring it up
<ochosi> bring what up?
<shadeslayer> co operation between you and others as you mentioned it above?
<shadeslayer> plus, could you elaborate on what kind of co operation?
<ochosi> shadeslayer: sry, was afk for a minute there...
<ochosi> well we don't really have that many overlapping topics with other parts/flavors
<ochosi> i mean this has been a recurring theme and i've talked about it with others
<ochosi> but solely considering what would bring xubuntu forward, that is primarily more contributors
<ochosi> (at least from my pov)
<ochosi> and a real UDS with xubuntu contributors or team members meeting up, that would maybe also help
<ochosi> i'm fine with any xubuntu related session though
<ochosi> just feel a bit "out of ideas" in that respect
<Aurvandill> hello everyone
<Unit193> Howdy.
<RobertJDohnert> Hello
<knome> ochosi, there was some discussion about a "panel" for all flavor leads
<knome> ochosi, it's even landed on the development list, which you hopefully read ;)
<ochosi> knome: yes, i did see that, but the inquiry above was a different topic
<ochosi> haven't been able to take care of a lot of things this week
<knome> ochosi, well, yeah, i guess..
 * knome was at the summer cottage as well
<knome> and being lazy all around
<knome> it's too hot in here!
<ochosi> knome: also, if you had read the backlog of this channel, you'd know i have read it, just haven't had time to reply
<knome> ;)=
<knome> i said i was being lazy!
<knome> plus, i wasn't highlighter
<knome> *d
<Unit193> I read it twice, once to approve, once when it hit the list.
<knome> lol
<ochosi> anyway, i'm still +0 on it
<knome> congrats
<ochosi> i don't see the RL benefit of it
<Unit193> knome: Installed the build-deps for xubuntu-docs and pulled it on another computer, same problem.  Re-created the chroot and it still passed...
<knome> if you can make it, i would +1 the idea
<knome> Unit193, uhm
<Unit193> So yeah...
<knome> i might look at it today.
<Unit193> knome: That's just the thing, it's something "locally" since it builds fine in a chroot, but it doesn't on two test systems I have.  There may not be something for you to fix or look at, just means I can't check to see if the docs validate as often.
<ochosi> knome: if you can explain to me what the +1 is for exactly..?
<Unit193> For you doing it?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> actually i might've misread the proposal, it doesn't say "team leads only", but rather one session per flavor
<ochosi> and the latter i'm not sure we really need
<knome> ochosi, +1 for you attending the "flavor leads panel"
<ochosi> yeah, but i didn't read about that. only this: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-June/010244.html
<knome> ah, oh
<knome> yeah, then i've just fatally misread
<knome> maybe propose an all flavors Q&A session instead.
<knome> considering the online summit now has a completely different audience than UDS
<ochosi> all flavors QA? you mean users can ask questions about all flavors?
<ochosi> that sounds chaotic to my ears
<knome> thus, killing UDS as we know it for good, and just making it another, bland, "canoncial communicates with the community" event, where canonical employees tell what canonical will do in the next 6 months
<knome> i don't think xubuntu would warrant our own 30/60 minute Q&A session with no prepared "speak out" material
<ochosi> yeah, but we don't really have that many plans for the upcoming release
<ochosi> so what's there to tell
<ochosi> that'd be the stuff i'd presume users are interested in
<knome> no, that's why i'm not proposing a "we'll tell you things" session, but a Q&A
<elfy> trouble with this is it's late for the final planning
<ochosi> (read: users who are interested in participating in this online event, which is fairly geeky)
<knome> elfy, i'm not proposing a planning/brainstorming session either
<knome> ochosi, well they want to make it less geeky.
<Unit193> ochosi: Are we supposed to talk about the remaining proposals?  I know of 3 remaining.
<ochosi> Unit193: which ones?
<elfy> sorry knome - getting tired and assuming people are psychic - I meant the planning for this UOS is late
<knome> elfy, yeah.
<Unit193> elfy: Mhmm, less and less important.
<knome> elfy, but otoh, a Q&A session doesn't need planning. just "be there"
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i meant: Unit193: +1 :)
<elfy> Unit193: the cynic in me feels that - but I don't think it's actually the case :)
<knome> i do agree the online summit is now even less relevant for us.
<ochosi> yeah, having a meeting where all of our team members are there has more real benefit
<knome> that doesn't mean i think we should be absent.
<elfy> I got asked to do something QA ish - told balloons I will next time 
<knome> if they really have one meeting for the release team/planning stuff, that's *kind of* useful
<knome> but i'm not sure because it's this late in the cycle and all the "move around the milestones" stuff has already been done
<elfy> and likely to be at a time to suit workers - meaning that people elsewhere will be doing their own work
<knome> yep
<elfy> hi tgm4883 
<tgm4883> hi elfy 
<tgm4883> so just to reiterate my question
<tgm4883> Just updated to 14.04 and I noticed that the startup screen (plymouth?) looks great even when using proprietary drivers. I'm trying to track down what I might need to look at to get ours (Mythbuntu) to look great too. As it stands, when using nvidia's proprietary drivers on Mythbuntu, plymouth falls back to a text only startup screen
<elfy> I'd love to know what you've got that makes plymouth look good with a prop driver :)
<Unit193> s/with.*//
<Unit193> tgm4883: So, question from #xubuntu ?
<elfy> because it doesn't here 
<tgm4883> odd
<tgm4883> let me ssh to my home machine and get that config
<tgm4883> FWIW, I noticed it on 13.10 on my kubuntu laptop as well
<tgm4883> but let me grab that config
<elfy> looks *kind of ok*ish - but only because I fiddled with the grub file
<elfy> but it's not good
<Unit193> ^ +1
<tgm4883> elfy: well ours (mythbuntu) falls back to a text only startup screen that says "Ubuntu 14.04"
<elfy> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash init=/lib/systemd/systemd vga=798"
<elfy> mine does without the vga=798
<Unit193> That's what I'm asking about, yes.
<tgm4883> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
<tgm4883> you want the whole file?
<tgm4883> it's nothing special and I didn't have to tweak it
<tgm4883> So this system that it is on has on board graphics (HD4000 I think) and a NVidia GTX 760, but I'm definitely hooked up to the GTX card (I believe I also disabled the onboard graphics in UEFI)
<Unit193> So yeah, not sure.  My only guess is checking /var/log/boot.log when you boot the myth system (may have to remove 'quiet' to get enough information.)  I don't know the plymouth-logo's script.
<ochosi> knome: do you happen to know when mr_pouit became debian liaison? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Leaders
<tgm4883> Unit193: elfy actually, it looks like it's because of UEFI. I was just talking with superm1 and he says UEFI comes with a GOP driver which "it basically allows a higher resolution framebuffer"
<elfy> ok - that clears that up then :)
<tgm4883> Which I also have UEFI on my laptop, which is why I thought it was something that kubuntu fixed as well 
<ochosi> that would be the first good thing i hear about UEFI :)
<Unit193> Ah, was wondering if UEFI was doing voodoo there.
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<Unit193> tgm4883: Well at least now you know how you can kind of fix it for non-UEFI systems.
<tgm4883> Unit193: yep, good to know. Thanks
<knome> ochosi, no, as i don't know when he became the project lead :)
<Unit193> elfy: Yeah, still doesn't fire soon enough for me either.
<Unit193> knome: But yes, if you can ../scripts/translate.sh -g  from xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/, tarball the resulting pt/ and fi/ dirs up and link me, that'd be helpful.
<elfy> night all
<ochosi> night everyone
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-06
<ali1234> shadeslayer: i don't have any ideas for a session. i would be happy to ramble for an hour about whatever topic people want to hear about.
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: let me know if you need anything if you are taking care of the SRU backports for light-locker-settings/xfce4-power-manager
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, I'd assumed you where doind it, since you made the bugs and code.
<Noskcaj> *doing
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: ok, cool, just wanted to verify
<shadeslayer> ali1234: well, I wouldn't know tbh :P
<shadeslayer> ali1234: but if you come up with something, let me know
#xubuntu-devel 2014-06-08
<Unit193> Been thinking about emailing micahg to check up that he's alright and all, but not really sure it's necessary or the $words factor.
<knome> i heard he's super busy with work (source: ochosi)
<Unit193> He did get a promotion, yes.
<bluesabre> hard to say
<bluesabre> woohoo, down to 23 TODOs to get parole to build in debug again
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, yay
<knome> so i calculated the amount of money we have left, and it's (about) 301,75 USD or about 215,48 EUR
<knome> both figures are about, because i have used my paypal balance to pay for my stuff, in multiple currencies, and there's actually less left than what the project funds are (i will naturally cover the rest from other sources when it's due)
<knome> i kind of regret for not creating another paypal account now, would be so easy...
 * Unit193 doesn't even have one.
<knome> :)
<knome> it's kind of useful
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-01
<ochosi> you should have push-rights anyway, not sure why i created a team for that repo now :)
<ochosi> interesting feature of github, that it shows the subfolder directly when there's only one
<ochosi> never noticed that before
<ochosi> bluesabre: you can push the debian packaging to the branch as well, i don't mind
<ochosi> but in that case, we might have to push the icons back to a subfolder
<bluesabre> ochosi: no, I'll restructure if I need to
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> np*
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> I might get this together tonight even, we'll see ;)
<ochosi> awesome!
<ochosi> even though it has 1700 icons, you can cut that in half, because 2 sizes
<ochosi> that leaves you with about 800 icons, of which only ~150 people really see on a regular basis
<ochosi> so it's sort of manageable i think
<ochosi> and naturally i'm starting with the most ugly, but also most low-hanging fruit
<bluesabre> fair enough
<bluesabre> dinner time, bbabl
<ochosi> bon appetit
<ochosi> i'll head to bed
<ochosi> night everyone!
<knome> nighty
<pleia2> elfy: re: surveys - it's up to you, I kind of lost enthusiasm for the surveys (still need to go through last survey info, and follow up w/ people who said they wanted info about getting involved...) and we've already made some decisions for 15.10 about defaults that I think will make sense
<knome> yeah... there are dozens who wanted to be contacted/more information
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> should just draft up a generic email and Bcc: it to folks
<knome> bah :)
<knome> generic emails suck
<pleia2> heh
<pleia2> indeed
<pleia2> but time
<knome> sure
<knome> but in the end it's not too much
<knome> the official part can be the same for everybody
<pleia2> mostly just personalize with name then?
<knome> maybe, or sth like that
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> there's a tb extension that does that automagically
<pleia2> neat
<knome> off to bed
<knome> ttyl
<knome> and nighty :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Elementary had an opinion on core?  Well hey, awesome.
<bluesabre> ochosi: with https://github.com/shimmerproject/libreoffice-style-elementary you now have a makefile... a bad makefile, but functional enough
<bluesabre> make; make install; make uninstall; make clean
<Unit193> PREFIX and DESTDIR?
<bluesabre> Unit193: never said it was a good makefile, just flubbed one together :p
<bluesabre> and LO seems very particular about icon theme locations
<bluesabre> bed time, bbl
<elfy> pleia2: works for me - I decided there's no need ...
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice that you could hack something together so quickly! works nicely
<ochosi> elfy: just fyi, i've commenced work on the LO icon theme for xubuntu, it's already easily/readily testable, but we'll likely get it in a PPA at some point in the near future
<ochosi> so in case you wanna take a sneak peek or anything, lemme know
<elfy> ochosi: yep - read enough backlog to catch the drift of that :)
<ochosi> good good :)
<ochosi> just felt since it involves testing i better tell you ;)
<Unit193> That makefile will need to be patched by the packager. :P
<elfy> heh 
<ochosi> Unit193: hehe, sure sure, but for the moment it does its job ;)
<elfy> ochosi: and there in LO now 
<ochosi> still quite a few icons missing though
<ochosi> this was just my first rage against the LO icon mess
<elfy> no matter - I can just follow and check for ellipses as things change :p
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> partly it's a bit about checking whether there are icons that really look misplaced
<ochosi> like orange folder icons or the like
<ochosi> so yeah, i think that sort of testing is a perfect match for you!
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> ochosi: I guess you were always "Oh god ... icons :(" when the LO/abiword discussion started again :)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> but then i buckled up and got to work ;)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> bbl
<ochosi> odd, the libreoffice icons don't work on my old 14.04 install @office
<knome> hump
<knome> old LO version acting up?
<ochosi> could be
<ochosi> i have 4.2.8.2
<ochosi> hmm, i really wonder whether 4.2 -> 4.4 makes such a difference there
<knome> well, if the same stuff works on 4.4...
<ochosi> yeah hum, not sure
<ochosi> odd thing is, the other icon packs' deb packages look the same as in vivid
<knome> :)
<ochosi> so no idea what's not working
<ochosi> bluesabre: one thing i notice is that the makefile sets the wrong file permissions. the zip shouldn't really have the executable byte set
<knome> pebkac? (:
<bluesabre> ochosi: update the permissions in the makefile ;)
<bluesabre> or, what should the perms be?
<ochosi> -rw-r--r--
<bluesabre> k
<ochosi> i don't think that's really causing the issue though
<ochosi> must be something else, no clue what
<bluesabre> there's a libreoffice ppa, fwiw
<ochosi> yeah, i'm asking the devs and then i'll check
<ochosi> chmod 644 i guess
<bluesabre> ochosi: fixed
<ochosi> yeah, no change, still not showing up
<ochosi> guess i could try the PPA to see whether it's really version-related
<ochosi> i presume the icons work for yu?
<ochosi> you
<bluesabre> yes
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> hm, if anyone else has a chance to test this on 14.04, it would be a "nice to have" to get the theme working there too
<bluesabre> I think I've almost got the packaging ready
<bluesabre> ochosi: I have some basic packaging working now... I'll drop it into the shimmer daily ppa tonight
<ochosi> nice!
<ochosi> i'll continue the updating of the icons as i go
<ochosi> but it should already be a noticeable improvement
<ochosi> if you notice any missing or annoyingly bad icons, just submit an issue on the github tracker
<ochosi> (same goes for anyone who uses/tests this)
<ochosi> i might even make this public soonish, so that we get more feedback about important missing icons
<knome> ochosi, oh, you don't want me to just fix/push? (;
<ochosi> hah, well you should do that ofc
<knome> nah, i'm just teasing
<knome> of course i won't do that!
<knome> seriously speaking, i might give a look at LO with what you have done so far at some point
<knome> if you create a list of icons you want to revamp, that would be helpful too
<ochosi> hmyeah
<ochosi> actually with many icons it's hard to know what context they'll appear in
<ochosi> that's why i want users to look
<knome> sure
<ochosi> the whole icon theme dirs are a huge mess
<knome> but if you see an icon in context
<knome> and think it's crap
<ochosi> so it's hard to keep an overview
<knome> but don't have the time to fix it...
<knome> haha
<ochosi> yeah, *if*
<ochosi> :)
<knome> i'll look for at least the icons i use constantly
<knome> even if they aren't crap, i could try to push and make those consistent
<ochosi> yup, that's all i want actually
<ochosi> replacing all crappy icons would be far too much work
<ochosi> i want the ones that matter the most
<knome> for us or for regular users :)
<ochosi> if/when you do that, please check the resolution of the originals
<knome> fwiw, some of this might be useful for huego
<ochosi> some have weirdo resolutions like 26x26
<knome> for use with inkscape/gimp
<ochosi> yeah, there are many icons that would be shared
<ochosi> but i'm not even thinking that far yet
<knome> sure, no hurry with that
<ochosi> (also, i don't use any node-based graphics editing in LO, so don't care)
<knome> me neither
<knome> then again, i use that in inkscape, so either way...
<ochosi> yeah, if you're motivated to work on that, sure thing
<knome> well
<knome> i'd love to see the new icons
<knome> but motivated... likely not enough to just do it
<knome> :|
<ochosi> the things that could be improved because prominent are things like "bold, underlined, italic" etc
<knome> yep
<knome> another thing you could write down is the style you are thinking
<knome> or some guidelines
<ochosi> they don't look totally misplaced though, so not even those are high on my list
<ochosi> style is elementary, that's all
<ochosi> should work well with that
<knome> aha ok
<ochosi> for now it's a copy-paste job
<ochosi> and even that was enough work
<knome> :)
<ochosi> bbabl
<knome> hf
<ochosi> knome: if you feel like working on some real improvements, these would be very much appreciated: http://i.imgur.com/BKFSmzW.png
<knome> yep..
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> ._. my proffessor cancelled today's class... because his son died on the weekend 
<GridCube> .___________.
<GridCube> oops i though this was ot
<knome> pleia2, ping
<knome> http://www.piqo.fr/blog/piqo/10101-xubuntu-piqo-edition-telechargeable-en-pre-alpha.html#.VUeTwfntlBc
<knome> ochosi, ^ did you see that already?
<knome> ochosi, my first reaction confirmed by lyÊ - "they can't do that"
<knome> also, making a blanket statement that xubuntu is "GPL"...
<ochosi> knome: right, i didn't even know about the piqo
<knome> me neither
<knome> well until i bumped into it last week
<ochosi> it would have been nice of those folks to get in touch with us, for starters
<knome> i can't even remember how
<pleia2> knome: pong
<knome> pleia2, can you dump sume css to extras.css?
<knome> *some
<pleia2> sure
<knome> oh wait
<knome> we have a repository
<knome> i'll prepare that
<knome> pleia2, lp:xubuntu-website/static-assets is prepared for you
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> k
<knome> thanks
<Unit193> knome: docs.x.o going to have translations?
<knome> Unit193, ask pleia2?
<Unit193> Aha, newer one does then.
<pleia2> yeah, just 15.04
<Unit193> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1404/hardware-devices.html#restricted-drivers is that supposed to look like that?
<knome> likely not..
<pleia2> knome: new extras.css is installed
 * knome bows
<knome> Unit193, nope, but i can see that's a problem the new dir structure created
<knome> it removed the files the old docs were pointing to
<knome> (filenames changed at some point)
<knome> xubuntu-book.css -> style.css
<Unit193> Eh, vivid looks fine and has translations, so I'm good.
<pleia2> I can stash them back, just need to remember
<knome> pleia2, symlinking what i just said should be fine
<knome> in libs/
<pleia2> k
<pleia2> done
<ochosi> btw, a LO 5.0 release is coming up and will land in wily
<knome> pleia2, great, it even works
<ochosi> just as a notice for something we might have to look out for
<ochosi> elfy: ^
<knome> ochosi, maybe notice it in some blueprint(s)
<ochosi> ok, added to -dev
<pleia2> knome: did you add the laptop+desktop drawings to the main site recently?
<pleia2> so cute!
<ochosi> +1
<knome> pleia2, yep
<knome> pleia2, planning on adding more of the same style, glad you like it
<pleia2> cool
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_art/xwa-community.png
<pleia2> looks a bit dude-y
<knome> i've been thinking to add a gal-ey one on the right
<pleia2> :)
<drc> oooo...Xubuntu, the distro of choice for Guys and Dolls :)
<Unit193> Better than doodie..
 * drc looks for the soap....
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-02
<knome> pleia2, check out http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=3081&preview=true when you have time :)
<knome> ochosi, did you see that after last changes either? ^
<ochosi> no hadn't seen that
<ochosi> i think the status tracking could use some sort of "graph" or "burndown" graphics too
<ochosi> the guy-gal thingy is a bit quirky, but hey :)
<ochosi> the rest is nice!
<knome> well it's a draft
<knome> i'll likely move the dudette to the right of the bubble
<knome> then it'll look better
<ochosi> also the status tracking links need updates i think
<knome> oh sigh
<knome> we went through this already ;)
<knome> i just noticed that the old logo is used *again* at http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/05/xubuntu-core-new-minimal-iso-download
<ochosi> oh ok, i don't remember ;)
<knome> :P
<ochosi> feel free to send them an email
<knome> i said i'd rather keep the changing stuff somewhere else
 * knome sighs
<ochosi> but the post is already quite old
<pleia2> knome: thumbs up
<pleia2> also published: http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-at-computer-reach/
<drc> pleia2: Last link (edubuntu one) == "You don't have permission to access /news/ComputerReach Edubuntu 14.04 - Xubuntu - QuickGuide (mod).pdf on this server." (for me)
<pleia2> drc: thanks
<pleia2> should be good now
<MarkUX> ho 
<MarkUX> hi 
<knome> pleia2++
<Unit193> Debian #787557
<ubottu> Debian bug 787557 in exo-utils "exo-utils: exo-open seems confused by escaped characters in URL's" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/787557
<ochosi> knome: i'm considering to blog about the LO icon theme on x.org btw, i think it could generate some attention for us
<knome> approve the idea, tell me if you need help writing it
<knome> or editing, or sth
<ochosi> k, thanks, will do
<bluesabre> Unit193: D:
<bluesabre> its so hard... some things escape filenames, others don't... fix one, break the other :(
<knome> what i was thinking is "how the *beep* is exo supposed to know how things are escaped anyway?"
<bluesabre> maybe try unescaping first..? who knows
<bluesabre> save that for 0.12.x
<knome> try unescaping... what?
<knome> i mean, unescaping correctly would mean you should know how stuff is escaped
<micahg> I was wondering if it had to do with th file URI vs http or another URI scheme
<ochosi> night everyone!
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-03
<knome> ochosi, a very early draft with pleia2: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-derivative-guidelines
<ochosi> knome: read through, looks good to me!
<ochosi> that one is maybe a bit too much "volunteers who do volunteer support" :)
<ochosi> other than that, nice work! (ofc you too, pleia2)
<knome> ochosi, heh, sure
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, is there anything in the dev projects we have put on the blueprint where you want my input specifically? (as in mockups, code or artwork)
<elfy> hi everyone - been minus phone line and interwebs since Monday morning - unfortunately for you they fixed it 
<astraljava> ...aaaand the fun stops now.
<elfy> I'll be off again then ... 
<astraljava> ;)
<astraljava> Good to have you back.
<elfy> did you notice I was gone though :p
<astraljava> Not really, I've been off quite a lot myself this week.
 * ochosi noticed and was already wondering whether to start worrying
<elfy> if it had been much longer I would have sent you a I am alive mail :p
<elfy> ochosi: re LO - now I know that we have it I'll takemore note of updates 
<ochosi> yeah, i think there'll be a more formal announcement for LO 5.0 and all
<elfy> not sure if I said I grabbed the LO icons or not -  but  I did 
<ochosi> but i thought it's good to inform everyone as early as possible
<ochosi> oh good
<ochosi> there is 1) a daily build of them now and 2) you can easily clone/update the git repo and run "make clean && make && sudo make install" to get the latest stuff
<elfy> oh right - if you can point me to it please :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: running out... but if you feel like doing any refreshed UI mockups for any of our regular apps, I'll try to get that in place this cycle
<bluesabre> maybe mugshot/menulibre if we want to embed them
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> elfy: which one do you prefer?
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, let's discuss details when we're both around again
<elfy> ochosi: I see it in shimmer daily 
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> I have that ppa anyway 
<ochosi> perfect, in that case it's only one apt-get install away
<elfy> yup 
<ochosi> not sure when that was built, i pushed some more updates today
<ochosi> but generally this repo won't be so terribly active every day throughout the cycle, so i think it's fine
<elfy> ok - well when I'mback from work - I'll update and get it installed 
<ochosi> okeydoke, hf!
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: i just noticed that the symlink in /usr/lib/libreoffice/share/config points to images_elementary.zip -> /build/libreoffice-style-elementary-vktw59/libreoffice-style-elementary-201506030415~ubuntu14.04.1/debian/libreoffice-style-elementary/usr/share/libreoffice/share/config/images_elementary.zip
<ochosi> bluesabre: instead it should be ../../../../share/libreoffice/share/config/images_elementary.zip
<elfy> ochosi: is ^^ why installing LO style from ppa is a fail to work? 
<elfy> (it installs apparently) 
<ochosi> elfy: you mean for you it didn't work? if so, then yes
<elfy> okey doke - thought I was going madder 
<ochosi> you can always try the github repo, it does essentially the same thing
<ochosi> and with "sudo make uninstall" everything is back to as it was before
<elfy> ochosi: yep understood that - just prefer to ppa if I can - then it all gets taken care of for me :)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i guess it'll be an easy fix for bluesabre 
<elfy> oh good lord - suddenly affected by missing letters here after a reboot ... 
<knome> efy, wht?
<ochosi> knome: i think elfy refers to personal letters he authored in moments of passion and/or grief, that suddenly went missing after rebooting his computer. as a human being with feelings, naturally this affects him. rats!
<knome> ochosi, heh.
<pleia2> lol
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-04
<bluesabre> evening folks
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi knome
<knome> ok, off for now
<knome> ttyl and nighty
<elfy> knome: I'm blaming libreoffice-elementary-style for the lack of letters ... 
<bluesabre> elfy: I'll fix that now :)
<elfy> what a champ :)
<bluesabre> package will (probably) be fixed in the next hour
<bluesabre> building soon
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks :)
<dkessel> i am going back to using all those strange xubuntu ppas in wily, too. let's see what breaks :)
<elfy> nothing yet :D 
<bluesabre> elfy: give it a shot now
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl :)
<elfy> bluesabre: ta - cya :)
<elfy> bluesabre ochosi - ok LO theme is good 
<dkessel> elfy: do you have a screenshot how it should look? I wonder if it is activated for me...
<elfy> http://i.imgur.com/zPaXVHh.png is what I see
<elfy> not all icons have been ochosi'd 
<dkessel> do i have to activate it somehow, or reset some theme setting? i get this: http://i.imgur.com/H9XSCHI.png
<elfy> install it from shimmer daily ppa 
<elfy> then if needed Tools > Options > Libreoffice - view 
<dkessel> ahhhh!
<dkessel> that setting was set to "tango" here
<dkessel> now i got it too
<elfy> that'll be it then :)
<knome> elfy, sure...
<knome> elfy, :)
<elfy> knome: on the qa blueprint the "Evaluate drawing data from trackers ..." was more or less about the incentive thing - which is shelved so I'm removing that one, likewise your item on there - is that held over from V for the same thing? 
<elfy> you can copy and paste replies if you like :D
 * knome checks
<knome> actually my item is still good
<elfy> ok - what for though? might be useful to remind me ;) 
<knome> umm, i don't know
<knome> the item is TODO :P
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<knome> i was thinking some summarized stuff
<knome> but i haven't been able to put a lot of thought to it yet
<elfy> well as far as QA is concerned dkessel had some summary in progress which does 
<knome> mhm
<elfy> but if you want to leave it on there - fine  by me - unless it's September and still TODO :D
<knome> dkessel == tracker developer :P
<elfy> :)
<knome> yes please for now
<knome> let's see what comes
<elfy> okey doke
<knome> who cleared the mod queue for devel ml?
<knome> was the sticker question a spam?
<knome> -a
<elfy> I did some today
<elfy> no - not spam - rejected it with a suitable reply pointing to -users and the unixstickers page on x.org 
<knome> mhm
<elfy> only one of the 3 I did was spam 
<elfy> other one was a support thing - sent them to users too 
<knome> if you reply off-list in the future, i'd thumb up if you CC'd xubuntu-devel-owner@lists.ubuntu.com
<knome> just saying - that sends a copy for all moderators
<elfy> yea I know
<knome> you might have seen me do that
<knome> not a big problem, was just wondering where the mail went:D
<elfy> I have seen you do it - then I delete them 
<knome> yep
<knome> i don't expect you to do anything else with them :)
<elfy> then why cc the mods ;) 
<knome> for information
<knome> "this wasn't spam, but i dealt with it"
<elfy> mmm 
<dkessel> to who it may concern: https://launchpad.net/mousepad links to a dead link as the project homepage: http://www.xfce.org/projects/mousepad/
<dkessel> ah, a ping!
<knome> and if they start arguing about why they think their should have been approved and blah blah
<knome> dkessel, what's the right homepage?
<elfy> http://users.xfce.org/~benny/xfce/apps.html ? 
<knome> i guess so
<knome> updated
<elfy> meh 
<knome> what?
<dkessel> maybe that
<elfy> that page isn't too good 
<dkessel> maybe https://github.com/codebrainz/mousepad
<knome> elfy, nope.
<elfy> only link I tried off it is dead
<dkessel> but that's not too good either
<knome> maybe just remove the link
<elfy> yea
<elfy> ochosi: not sure if gtk3.16 is likely to affect us at all, nor whether you've seen mails about it, but it is in -proposed now 
<knome> new gtk version not affecting us?  hah, says i
<elfy> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-05
<ochosi> elfy: good to know. i'll try to prep our themes when i get my new laptop (gah, still 20 days :( )
<elfy> :(
<ochosi> yeah, that's what you get when you order the ubuntu laptop from dell
<elfy> ... 
<bluesabre> trusty/utopic/vivid folks: Synced the latest packages to the xfce-4.12 ppa this morning.  Some are still building.
<bluesabre> Unit193: if you get a chance, can you work with the greeter 2.0.1 packaging?
<bluesabre> need to migrate the ubuntu conf to the new dirs
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> great!
<ochosi> btw, i pushed another commit and am about to release a new dev version of xfpm
<ochosi> so you can soon test that hidden panel setting again ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: will you be here for the meeting today?
<bluesabre> ochosi: can't make it, during travel/work hours
<bluesabre> we can have a quick discussion now though, if you'd like
<ochosi> bluesabre: sure, and sry, was away for lunch
<ochosi> are you still around or already gone..?
<ochosi> elfy: any specific icons in LO that "haven't been ochosi'd" - as you put it - that you would say are high priority for you?
<bluesabre> ochosi: hey
<ochosi> oh good :)
<ochosi> so to pick up from before: i will try to release xfpm 1.5.1 this weekend, so maybe we can provide that in the PPA for wily and vivid
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure thing
<bluesabre> ochosi: got a few orange icons on the right... :) http://i.imgur.com/XWXSEgb.png
<bluesabre> Version: 4.4.2.2
<ochosi> and wrt LO icons, thanks for fixing the packaging!
<bluesabre> np
<ochosi> yeah, the insertpagebreak and the insertfield icons havent been fixed yet
<ochosi> but: look at the beautiful shapes you can insert!
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> for "insert field" i'm still a bit unsure how to represent that
<bluesabre> also the paint tub and brush on the right
<ochosi> that icon there doesn't make much sense to me tbh
<ochosi> yeah, although that's sorta okayish
<ochosi> not going to eliminate all orange icons just for the sake of it ;)
<ochosi> note: it's not the same orange like the other two icons, so not ubuntu-orange
<bluesabre> "Show Draw Functions", indeed, thats kind of a dumb icon in general
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> in LO-calc there is a lot more to do
<ochosi> but i focused on -writer for now
<ochosi> and even there, i wanna fix the list and indent icons
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I won't mention the other apps (non-writer/calc) for a little while
<ochosi> yeah, they're not as important for now
<ochosi> you sent me that screenshot of catfish, have you pushed that already?
<bluesabre> ochosi: nope, not yet
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> also, maybe we should discuss our general stance wrt CSD
<bluesabre> its not working atm
<bluesabre> and yeah
<ochosi> we have some apps already that have CSD (calculator)
<ochosi> but with many others we pushed for patches that prevent CSD
<ochosi> i'm wondering whether we should revert that
<ochosi> e.g. simplescan
<bluesabre> yeah.. in a lot of those cases its ubuntu pushing those patches
<ochosi> yeah, but we argued that we want to be included :)
<ochosi> it checks the running DE
<bluesabre> true
<ochosi> in ubuntu gnome those apps use CSD afaik
<bluesabre> the way they are patched makes them look dump fairly frequently
<bluesabre> *dumb
<ochosi> dump?
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, so maybe we should discuss that as a team or something
<ochosi> not sure
<bluesabre> but, I also know that several folks here don't like CSDs, so it should be a broader conversation in xubuntu (and probably xfce)
<ochosi> with xfce there are no plans to go for going for csd
<ochosi> although i could imagine we could implement a setting for xfce apps
<ochosi> i mean a general one
<ochosi> e.g. in xfce4-session
<bluesabre> I don't think a setting is necessary there
<ochosi> with "broader discussion in xubuntu" you mean broader than theme?
<ochosi> well i could imagine that we implement optional CSD in xfce apps
<bluesabre> xfwm4 supports it gracefully, gtk 3.16 handles without compositing
<bluesabre> I don't think it should be an optional thing
<ochosi> right, why?
<ochosi> (apart from the obvious ones: code complexity, maintainability)
<bluesabre> toolbar+menubar != headerbar... no need to completely change the interface for a different titlebar
<ochosi> yeah but headerbar+menubar looks really silly
<bluesabre> yeah, and in that case it should not use a headerbar
<bluesabre> if an app is going to support it, then it should do it fully and not have a switch to toggle
<bluesabre> imo
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> k :)
<bluesabre> in the same line of thought, I don't think it should be patched away in ubuntu ;)
<ochosi> yeah, many ubuntu devs see it that way
<ochosi> they might revert those patches actually
<ochosi> it could happen any release, just depends on compiz supporting CSD better
<ochosi> which is why i'm thinking it might be a good idea to be proactive about that
<ochosi> although i have no idea what to do with e.g. evince, i mean how that would look without ubuntu patching the gnome app-menus to be menus in a menubar
<ochosi> we might have to come up with a solution for that problem
<bluesabre> ochosi: gtk handles that, drops the app menus into a menubutton on the headerbar
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> i thought there was more to it than that
<bluesabre> I think thats part of GtkApplication
<ochosi> still, i wonder how all the menuitems in evince fit into a single menubutton..
<bluesabre> er, GtkApplicationWindow
<bluesabre> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkApplicationWindow.html#GtkApplicationWindow--show-menubar
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta run for now
<bluesabre> maybe you have something to talk about in the meeting now ;)
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> alright
<ochosi> ttyl and hf!
<elfy> ochosi: I tend not to look tbh (sorry) but mostly I calc than writer - and there appears to be a *lot*
<elfy> and then I see the mention of calc in backlog ... 
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, i'll work on calc at some point
<ochosi> thing is, i won't just replace icons for the sake of it, if they're okay then i'll leave them
<ochosi> (also because of limited time/motivation)
<knome> elfy, can you use ubuntu-bug if you use a PPA?
<knome> oh yeah...
 * knome facepalms
<knome> "It also helps if bugs you find with xfce packages can be reported on ..."
<knome> not english :D
<elfy> it *is* English 
<knome> well...
<elfy> just not grammatically correct :)
<knome> engrish
<elfy> lol 
<elfy> !team | meeting
<ubottu> meeting: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jun  5 12:30:11 2015 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<elfy> I'll hang about for a minute or two to see if anyone turns up ... 
<knome> well i'm here..
<dkessel> o/
<elfy> so am I knome :)
<knome> hei dkessel 
<dkessel> hej knome
<elfy> hi dkessel 
<dkessel> hey elfy
<elfy> #topic Open action items
<knome> none i guess
<elfy> this is easy as pie - only one to look at and that's -dev and -qa and I've got to assume that bluesabre and ochosi will ask 
<knome> oh there is one..
<knome> yep
<elfy> and Unit193 and Noskcaj and micahg 
<elfy> #done xubuntu-dev to liase with -qa when specific package testing required 
<elfy> meh 
<knome> heh
<elfy> #topic Team Updates
<elfy> anything from you knome ? 
<knome> #info knome has been working on website content
<knome> that's all
<elfy> #info milestone image testing dealt with
<elfy> that's all 
<elfy> move along I guess
<elfy> #topic Announcements
<elfy> nothing that I'm aware of 
<elfy> #topic Discussion
<elfy> #subtopic Rebooting the FAQ articles
<elfy> knome: that's your item 
<elfy> anything happened with that recently? 
<elfy> guessing not then ... 
<knome> nope, but the work continues
<elfy> :)
<knome> sorry, i'm in a flu and have my other nostril dripping blood more or less consistently...
<elfy> so people are doing that? 
<elfy> :|
<knome> we'll do at least something
<knome> at least bluesabre said he could write something
<knome> if not else, i guess i'll push the "back to the basics" series forward
<elfy> ok - so any need for us to revisit this each meeting still ?
<knome> likely not
<elfy> or take it to mailing lists when needed or something 
<knome> i'll just send a follow-up to the ML at some point
<knome> yep
<elfy> ack
<knome> #action knome to follow-up on the FAQ reboot on ML
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to follow-up on the FAQ reboot on ML
<elfy> #subtopic Discuss blueprints and plans for 15.10 
<knome> heh
<elfy> which is ochosi's bag afaik - pretty sure the blueprints are being/been sorted
<knome> looks like it
<elfy> yep 
<dkessel> definately
<elfy> #action ochosi to follow up with team leads re blueprints as needed
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up with team leads re blueprints as needed
<elfy> #subtopic Core as image
<elfy> I put this on here expecting to set a time that bluesabre was here -which was fail :) 
<elfy> personally my view is that it'd be nice to do that - maybe aim for the next cycle proper - which would be even nicer 
<elfy> as far as QA goes - if we do that, then QA would do what is necessary for that
<elfy> not got anything else to say on that though 
<elfy> anyone else got anything to say on that? 
<knome> yep
<knome> what you say sounds good
<elfy> anymore - if not I'll move along 
<ochosi> o/
<ochosi> sorry for being late
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<elfy> ochosi: anything you want to bring up? 
<ochosi> had an important call
<ochosi> i'll quickly catch up backlog wise, 1min
<elfy> okey doke
<ochosi> i'm surprised there were no team updates so far
<elfy> not much to be said QA wise atm
<ochosi> knome: what about the website content restructuring? (i mean sure, it's on the ML, but still)
<ochosi> elfy: what about not using the tracker this cycle?
<ochosi> or has that previously been discussed/announced in a meeting?
<elfy> yea - that came up previously 
<elfy> the draft mail is following up 
<ochosi> mkay
<knome> ochosi, what about that?
<ochosi> knome: well i dunno, what are team updates about if not e.g. that?
<elfy> ochosi: on the 12th May 
<knome> ochosi, i did the update
<knome> "working with website content"
 * ochosi facepalms
<ochosi> sorry, overread that
<knome> np
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> guess i should've taken 1min30sec to read the backlog instead of just 1min
<knome> lol
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<ochosi> anyhoo, there is a discussion item i wanted to bring up quickly
<elfy> #chair ochosi 
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy ochosi
<ochosi> we won't finish today, but i would like to hear both your opinions (at least)
<elfy> then you can topic it 
<elfy> (unless you can without chair ... )
<ochosi> #subtopic Discuss Xubuntu's position on CSD (client side decorations)
<knome> can't
<elfy> knome: ty
<ochosi> sooo
<ochosi> so far, we've tried to get ubuntu's patches to work for xubuntu as well, which means our apps look like before
<ochosi> btw, are we all clear on what CSD is?
<elfy> not completely ... 
<ochosi> ok, in vivid/wily, open the calculator
<knome> maybe you should post reference for reference
<ochosi> that's CSD
<ochosi> so not using a traditional window decoration
<ochosi> but one that looks like a toolbar with window controls
<elfy> aah - ok - got that
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> so basically the ubuntu desktop devs decided to patch that out in their default apps
<ochosi> and since xfce didn't support it well at the time (well, that was the main technical reason) we went along and asked this to be patched out for us too
<ochosi> however, that has changed, xfce supports it quite well now
<ochosi> and it could be that the ubuntu desktop team decides any cycle to revert those patches and to use the apps with CSD in unity
<ochosi> so the question is: are we proactive about this and consider reverting the patches for us?
<elfy> reverting ends up with us looking like what? 
<knome> there's obviously two sides to this
<ochosi> or do we think CSD is not easy enough to use etc. so we wanna keep those patches as long as possible
<ochosi> or look for alternatives
<ochosi> elfy: i'll quickly look for screenshots, one sec
<ochosi> but it depends on the app a bit
<knome> using what the app provides (CSD) and no need to maintain patches
<knome> or
<knome> patching them out and keeping consistency and configurability to user
<ochosi> 1) "old" calculator: http://screenshots.ubuntu.com/screenshots/g/gcalctool/5112_large.png
<knome> i don't think you can affect much how the CSD stuff is laid out
<knome> i mean, in which order you have the window controls etc
<knome> or can you?
<elfy> ochosi: ok - as I assumed, they'd look like they used to 
<knome> at least the minimize icon is different too than in greybird xfwm
<ochosi> 2) CSD calculator: http://i.imgur.com/oM3v65q.png
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i'd have to work on that, but that can be fixed obviously
<ochosi> btw, consistency yes, but configurability, not really
<knome> well window button layout
<ochosi> the amount of possible menuitems/options in an app doesn#t change with CSD
<ochosi> no, xfwm4 supposedly syncs that now
<knome> aha...
<ochosi> so when you change you xfwm4 window button layout, your CSD layout changes too
<elfy> aah right
<ochosi> it's a simple gtk setting, exposed through xfce4-settings-editor (but auto-synced with xfwm4)
<knome> right...
<ochosi> so you can also override it
<elfy> so I move the buttons about - my calc buttons are reversed to the screeny
<knome> i guess if we can make the windows with CSD more like greybird..
<ochosi> knome: yeah, the maximize and minimize would be adapted
<knome> the CSD window borders are fat
<ochosi> well, they're more than window borders
<knome> and there's a lot of padding comparing to regular window borders
<knome> sure
<ochosi> because they hold lots of other buttons
<ochosi> yeah, but if you lose menubar+toolbar, you still end up saving pixels
<ochosi> (if that's a concern)
<knome> size isn't, consistency is
<knome> (from my POV)
<ochosi> you mean "a concern"?
<knome> yes
<ochosi> yeah i agree
<ochosi> but in the end that might mean that we have to look for alternative applications
<ochosi> because this affects many of our default apps
<ochosi> evince, calculator, simplescan, etcetc.
<knome> yes, and surely, there's no guarantee they won't start using SCD too
<ochosi> exactly
<knome> i don't think it's sensible to replace those with new apps that are as good
<ochosi> although Mate seems to dislike CSD, so we could try relying more on their apps
<knome> sensible to think that we can*
<ochosi> yeah, probably not
<ochosi> i mean for instance with evince i'm *totally* happy
<ochosi> and i've never heard a single complaint about it (so far)
<ochosi> so i'd hate to replace that with something worse
<knome> yep
<knome> i don't like the menus in the window borders personally
<knome> and another concern is how the menus look opened
<ochosi> so anyway, i know this is a big topic, but we have to start thinking about this and discussing it
<knome> that's not consistent either
<ochosi> aha? which ones?
<knome> well for example in calc
<knome> open the "file" menu
<knome> it has awful padding
<ochosi> that can be tweaked
<knome> it doesn't look bad, but it looks like it doesn't belong
<ochosi> i just haven't spent much time on it
<knome> yeah and sure, if we decided not to use CSD, then it would be more or less in vain
<dkessel> how does one open such a CSD menu with the keyboard?
<ochosi> knome: well we can keep it up as long as possible...
<elfy> ochosi: so the options we have basically equate to keep it and hope for the best or proactively move away now 
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, that's my view on the subject at least (and i think to some extent bluesabre's)
<elfy> given that I'm not sure that anyone is going to be up for fiddling about much in the *next* cycle
<ochosi> dkessel: not sure, a11y might be another con of CSD
<ochosi> elfy: yes, exactly why i felt i'd rather bring it up now
<elfy> so - if we do end up having to do something, then wily would be the time 
<elfy> would be my position on it 
<ochosi> ok, but on CSD itself?
<ochosi> (and yeah, i hope we can agree on what you said there)
<elfy> ochosi: so on CSD - you want my opinion on whether to keep that or go *old-school* ? 
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> it could be that we have to vote on this in the end
<ochosi> (just as an additional note)
<ochosi> but i prefer to have a discussion beforehand
<elfy> then I prefer not CSD - they always looks odd to me when there are other apps open that aren't CSD
<ochosi> in a voting process there's often not enough time to thoroughly explain one's position
<elfy> yea :)
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> btw, we can also proactively try to promote CSD and get consistency back that way
<elfy> mmm 
<ochosi> we can even try to suggest improvements upstream (e.g. if there are a11y concerns)
<ochosi> and obviously that also concerns xfce
<elfy> yep
<knome> some apps will never have CSD though
<knome> ff,tb,lo
<elfy> hard for me to  have opinions on this type of thing tbh - I just use whatever I use 
<ochosi> knome: yeah, possible
<elfy> things have to be REALLY obvious for me to even notice ... 
<ochosi> elfy: that's ok (and good to know)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> knome: although if more DEs use CSD then the incentive for those apps to support something like CSD might be higher
<elfy> like the fact that calc looks odd to me - really obviously different
<knome> well i don't know
<ochosi> i mean FF already has that sort of menubutton to some extent
<knome> what would they do with CSD?
<knome> they still need to show a lot of menus and options
<ochosi> combine tab bar and window controls
<knome> that can't look natural in CSD
<knome> yeah, that's ugly
<ochosi> well look at chrome
<knome> another reason i don't use chrome...
<ochosi> it already does that for a while
<ochosi> well, in chrome it's configurable
<ochosi> either way, i could add another workitem to improve our CSD support so that max and min buttons look like greybird (amongst others)
<knome> yep
<knome> ++
<ochosi> and we can continue the discussion another time
<ochosi> this was just meant as a kickstart anyway
<elfy> yep
<elfy> that makes sense - perhaps start a list thread too with the main points 
<ochosi> yeah, ultimately that'll make sense
<ochosi> but i'd prefer to discuss it a bit more with other team members before we take it to the list
<ochosi> there might be other points (apart from visual consistency and the things i know about) that i might be missing
<elfy> ochosi: yep - that makes sense too 
<ochosi> elfy: ok, from my pov you can move along with the meeting or finish it
<elfy> ochosi: ok ty 
<ochosi> i have no other items i wanted to discuss
<knome> any items you don't want to discuss?
<knome> :P
<elfy> heh
<elfy> anymore for anymore? 
<knome> no, FINISH IT
<elfy> #topic Schedule next meeting
<elfy> action bluesabre to set next meeting
<elfy> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jun  5 13:29:41 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-06-05-12.30.moin.txt
<knome> thanks elfy 
<elfy> thanks all 
<ochosi> ty elfy 
<elfy> I hate US date syntax ... 
<knome> :P
<elfy> knome: can you delete https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2015-05-06
<knome> done
<elfy> meeting page is all done 
<elfy> knome: thanks :D
<elfy> bluesabre: something awry methinks ... http://i.imgur.com/TlNYZQl.png
<elfy> running from a terminal just get 4 deprecated warnings 
<elfy> thought I would check ... after remembering I accidentally -proposed,,but live session is the same
<elfy> bug 1462445 
<ubottu> bug 1462445 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole starts with blank screen" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1462445
<elfy> added bugzilla and to blueprint
<PaulW2U> elfy: seeing that here too, just confirmed your bug in LP
<PaulW2U> Also, I can't seem to close parole
<elfy> thanks PaulW2U 
<bluesabre> elfy: PaulW2U wily, I presume?
<bluesabre> uh oh, I'm next at bat
<bluesabre> elfy, not a fan of YYYYMMDD?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-06
<bluesabre> micahg: when you're around next, can you review a package for me before I upload it?
<bluesabre> with the new lightdm-gtk-greeter, it now has conf.d support
<bluesabre> debian transitioned their config to conf.d, so I'm doing the same with ubuntu
<bluesabre> ubuntu debdiff: lightdm-gtk-greeter_2.0.0-0ubuntu1.dsc lightdm-gtk-greeter_2.0.1-1ubuntu1.dsc http://paste.ubuntu.com/11600245/
<bluesabre> debdiff debdiff: lightdm-gtk-greeter_2.0.1-1.dsc lightdm-gtk-greeter_2.0.1-1ubuntu1.dsc http://paste.ubuntu.com/11600248/
<bluesabre> it seems to work for me, but I thought in this case, another set of eyes would be good :)
<bluesabre> elfy, knome: perhaps one of the first FAQ articles we should write up should be for bug reporting? Alternatively, I can author a nice picture guide on my blog or a youtube video... thoughts?
<Unit193> bluesabre: I should be around tomorrow.
<elfy> bluesabre: yep wily 
<elfy> bluesabre: re bug article - probably a good idea ... perhaps the QA team can deal with that 
<elfy> now where's that Unit193 ... :p
<ochosi> pleia2, knome: looky looky: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-vivid.html
<ochosi> "I got this fine piece of digital machinery [Ed. Xubuntu], which purrs and meows and growls like a turbo-charged tiger"
<ochosi> dunno how he gets from a mouse to a tiger, but it's an interesting evolution :)
<elfy> ochosi: must be one of these http://bit.ly/1F0Qz3Z
<elfy> ochosi: also ... http://xubuntu.org/press/ :)
<ochosi> elfy: oh crap, it's already there :)
<ochosi> elfy, bluesabre: fyi, just released xfpm 1.5.1. that should fix the icon loading issues 1.5.0 was suffering from and also some other small issues. hopefully the hidden setting will work as planned
<Noskcaj> ochosi, uploading to xubntu-staging ppa now
<ochosi> oh nice, thanks Noskcaj!
<ochosi> Noskcaj: can you take care of 15.04 too? that'll help us expand our tester base
<bluesabre> Unit193: great, feel free to build on the package I put together or trash it outright
<bluesabre> and yay, my subteam has reappeared! :D
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> wanna try whether that hidden option works for you now?
<ochosi> i actually pushed a slightly modified commit in the end
<bluesabre> sure, sounds delightful
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> actually: doing releases more frequently is more fun cause the changelog is a lot easier to compile
<ochosi> also added a 0.8.0 tag to parole in bugzilla and re-tagged elfy's report
<bluesabre> yay!
<ochosi> btw, slight inconsistency in parole:
<ochosi> Tools > Preferences
<ochosi> but then the subsequent dialog is called "Settings"
<bluesabre> uh oh, this is new
<bluesabre> ochosi: killall xfce4-power-manager
<bluesabre> then select power manager settings from the panel plugin
<bluesabre> it asks to start the power manager, click yes
<ochosi> uhm, why not xfce4-power-manager -q?
<bluesabre> then it asks to start the power manager, click yes
<bluesabre> then it asks to start the power manager, click yes
<bluesabre> then it asks to start the power manager, click yes
<bluesabre> :o
<ochosi> strange, wfm
<ochosi> but i also asked it to exit gracefully, i didn't just blatently kill it
 * bluesabre is a monster
<bluesabre> that used to work, :)
<ochosi> yeah no clue, didn't touch that part *at all*
<bluesabre> but, I have a mess of stuff open, so I'll log out and in
<ochosi> what worries me more is that before i did the release the trayicon was working nicely, now not so much
<ochosi> oh well
<ochosi> no surprises there, i got the same loop as you
<ochosi> with starting xfpm
<ochosi> so where did that last work for you? 1.5.0? 1.4.4?
<ochosi> shite.
<bluesabre> 1.5.0
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> xfpm does not start anymore
<bluesabre> if you log out and in... :\
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> power-manager-button.c:803: invalid property id 2 for "show-panel-label" of type 'GParamInt' in 'PowerManagerButton'
<ochosi> -> segfault
<bluesabre> :|
<ochosi> the awesome thing is: i tested this. eric tested it. it all worked.
<bluesabre> the good news is that the panel plugin correctly displays the time now
<ochosi> i guess that's something
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> the trayicon causes the segfault
<ochosi> the warning is not the problem
<bluesabre> cool, glad I could help identify a problem :)
<ochosi> yeah, anyway, i'll wait for the bugreports and enjoy the hot day now
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> ochosi: send a follow-up email with how to disable the tray-icon via xfonf-query?
<ochosi> yeah could do
<bluesabre> anyhoo, gotta run, have fun
<ochosi> u2
#xubuntu-devel 2015-06-07
<micahg> bluesabre: sure, I'll take a look in a bit
<dkessel> ochosi: good work on xfpm 1.5.1 ! I like the icon and that you implemented my most-wanted feature :) (showing remaining time next to the icon)
<ochosi> thanks!
<ochosi> yeah, stupid trayicon came to bite me again
<ochosi> but i think bluesabre said he would fix that
<drc> #xubuntu
<Unit193> Debian #680686
<ubottu> Debian bug 680686 in debhelper "pass --disable-silent-rules to configure by default" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/680686
<Unit193> Noskcaj: ^
<brainwash_> didn't someone promise to backport the latest xfwm4 release to vivid?
<Unit193> I didn't.
<brainwash_> no, it wasn't you
<brainwash_> you usually don't do stuff like this, right?
<brainwash_> MRU/SRU
<Unit193> Nope.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, yay. I'll start taking the override out of things
<Noskcaj> i nominate brainwash_ to backport it
<Unit193> I second.
<Unit193> :----D
<brainwash_> I don't do packaging
<Noskcaj> brainwash_, The only commands you need are dch -i, debuild, debdiff
<Noskcaj> You may as well learn
<micahg> brainwash_: take a look at backportpackage in ubuntu-dev-tools
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-06
<SwissBot> feed xfce4-announce had 9 updates, showing the latest 3
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-07
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: pretty sure that testing iso's currently is a complete waste of time ;)
<flocculant> some flavours will be doing alpha1 in a couple of weeks - I suspect they'll whine louder 
<akxwi-dave> i noticed that mate.. Thought I'd give it another go.. just in case
<flocculant> I didn't bother http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-qa this morning
<flocculant> cyphermox: did you know that the iso's have ubi-console fail and then a full on crash later? 
<cyphermox> flocculant: yeah, I've had hints of some other issues
<cyphermox> it was with the timezone plugin though
<flocculant> mmm - you can at least get past that one, the newer one just crashes bug 1587555
<ubottu> bug 1587555 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer crashed during installation" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1587555
<cyphermox> so; let me finish dealing with sbsigntool SRUs now and libdebian-installer; those should just take 5 minutes; then I'll pull images and check them out
<flocculant> bunch of dupes I found for that one too 
<cyphermox> ok
<flocculant> can probably run ubiuity -d and add it to there if it would help
<cyphermox> looks to be still the same issue: May 31 16:14:53 xubuntu /plugininstall.py: ubiquity.install_misc.InstallStepError: Plugin timezone failed with code 2
<flocculant> cyphermox: ok - so beforehand we could force past the ubi-console issue and complete an install - but that now causes it to crash completely?
<cyphermox> I don't know, tbh I haven't tried an install of yakkety with ubiquity yet
<flocculant> I'll leave it in your wonderful care - looks like a case of voodoo to me :p
<flocculant> aah right okey doke - ftr I've seen fail with qemu, vbox and hardware 
 * flocculant wanders off looking at bbq's 
<cyphermox> bbqs?
<flocculant> yep - for cooking on :)
<flocculant> barbecue
<cyphermox> oh, cool
<cyphermox> yeah
<cyphermox> I have one back here, just rarely ever used in 4 years ;)
<flocculant> I've no garden - but council have replaced concrete with grass \o/
<akxwi-dave> cyphermox, i usually see timezone on the installer slider part when it crashes
<cyphermox> akxwi-dave: yeah, it explodes when it tries to apply the changes for some reason
<cyphermox> what we need to do is add 'set -x' to the right script that gets run in that case to see why it's unhappy
<cyphermox> flocculant: were you picking a timezone in particular?
<flocculant> cyphermox: nope - just letting it default to local (UK)
<cyphermox> ok... works here. crap :)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> cyphermox: I assume you were testing ubuntu
<cyphermox> yes
<cyphermox> shouldn't really make a difference for this :/
<flocculant> nope I agree
<flocculant> but stranger things have happened :D
<flocculant> cyphermox: and what locale are you? I could check that here
<cyphermox> oh wait it just crashed
<flocculant> phew ... 
<flocculant> sort of :)
<flocculant> I never actually took much notice of where it got to when crashing
<flocculant> seemed to be at different places tbh
<cyphermox> ah, it wasn't the same, indeed
<cyphermox> what I got was a crash for console-setup
<cyphermox> seriously, wtf.
<Unit193> I've found running ubiquity as root fixes a lot of problems. >_>
<flocculant> cyphermox: how it's been going here is ubi-console-setup fails - but you could continue
<flocculant> and the install would complete
<flocculant> lately - continue ubi-c-s and it crashes later
<cyphermox> sure, but it would still be nice to fix that too ;)
<flocculant> yea ofc
<cyphermox> looks like maybe a bad dpkg-maintscript-helper call for some reason?
<cyphermox> well, install is running now, I'll see in a bit
<flocculant> cyphermox: well if install is running - you got further than I do :D
<cyphermox> no, it crashes later
<flocculant> aah right - same then 
<cyphermox> yep
<cyphermox> trying again, with moar debug.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> I never really know what to use to debug the thing 
<cyphermox> well, it really depends on what is broken
<flocculant> heh
<cyphermox> here I just added set -x to a few scripts to see what they do and where they fail
<knome> what about boar debug, the trunky way to figure things out
<flocculant> I debug like this > let apport chuck the bug report at launchpad :p
<flocculant> evening knome 
<knome> hello flocculant 
<cyphermox> flocculant: that only works when your desk doesn't look like an aircraft cockpit
<knome> interesting idea
<flocculant> ha ha 
<cyphermox> ah, maybe /etc/default/rcS?
<flocculant> night peeps
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not sure if you've seen it yet, but: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2016/06/msg00002.html
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-08
<flocculant> evening 
<flocculant> cyphermox: thanks - I'll await that working clock-setup :)
<cyphermox> flocculant: yeah, it will be a little bit, I will still have to upload ubiquity on top of that
<flocculant> okey doke
<ochosi> Unit193: packaging work for you ^ :)
<Unit193> Mmmm, will have to figure out how to do that properly.
<Unit193> ochosi: Think we can expect a tumblerd release here soon?
<ochosi> not sure, why're you asking?
<ochosi> there's only one commit on top of 0.1.31
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/users/ali/tumbler/
<ochosi> knome: btw, i think i fixed an annoying bug in greybird: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/issues/113 wanna test-drive?
<ochosi> Unit193: ah ofc, i completely forgot about that branch
<ochosi> unfortunately i have no clue about tumbler so i could only abuse my super-cow powers to merge the branch in and then "test" whether it works ok most of the time
<Unit193> I've been running it since it's been packaged, I'm happy with it. >_>
<knome> ochosi, i'm not sure i spot the bug
<ochosi> Unit193: i guess i should start by also doing that...
<ochosi> knome: you have to make an open file dialog vertically small enough to notice
<Unit193> ochosi: Up to you, but xubuntu-dev/xfce4-gtk3
<knome> ochosi, and then what happens?
<ochosi> knome: the top and or bottom parts of the sidebar are "invisible" (i.e. blocked by some bg-colored bar)
<knome> oh. now i see it
<knome> was a bit hard to spot at first
<ochosi> yeah, which is why it slipped through into the release
<knome> well i'm sure i'd notice if i tried to use it...
<knome> but ok, i can test it
<ochosi> Unit193: how long before libxfce4ui will show up there? (:
<knome> but no promises when
<ochosi> knome: sure, now is ok too!1
<knome> remind me when i'm back from SF if i haven't tested before that :P
<knome> nah, i'm playing sensible world of soccer, can't
<Unit193> ochosi: Not sure.
<flocculant> not something I'd have noticed 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-09
<mikodo>  It sure would be fun to see someone (I couldn't) package some debs as snaps for Xubuntu. Snap apps being packaged for some debs along side the regular deb repos  for starters. I've read recently that, "Canonical engineers are experimenting snapping various deb apps that can be used as templates to help other people snap other applications and push them into the snap store and that that it will be useful to test these snap apps on the family of Ubunt
<mikodo> u desktop environments". Seems the way of the future .
<mikodo> Users could then test with, <sudo snap install KeePassX> or whatever. 
<Unit193> bluesabre: Ooh, look at -session packaging yet? :P  (Guessing not, which is fine because upstream work.)
<bluesabre> mikodo: Canonical folks have been reaching out to the various teams to experiment with snap packages
<bluesabre> Unit193: I've not yet looked, no :)
<mikodo> bluesabre, Good. I didn't know that. 
<flocculant> ochosi: cetainly appears to fix it
<Unit193> ochosi: http://paste.openstack.org/show/509162/
<ochosi> Unit193: the eyes plugin?
<Unit193> Yeeep.
<ochosi> i'm not concerned with that one at all, but obviously it uses gtk>=3.20 features and would need ifdefs to e.g. work in gtk3.18
<Unit193> I was mislead by XDT_CHECK_PACKAGE([GTK], [gtk+-3.0], [3.14.0])  :(
<Unit193> Well, I'm not really interested in any of the plugins so far. :P
<Unit193> xfce4-datetime-plugin almost, but there's a built-in one that does the same now.
<ochosi> yeah, i for one would be more interested in a libxfce4ui package ;)
<Unit193> Technically I built a git snapshot that might do what you're looking for. :P
<Unit193> OH CRAP, this one needs a new EXO! :3
<Unit193> ...Ooookay, I should stop and sleep. >_>
<Unit193> Okay, the control file lied to me, configure.ac doesn't list.
<Unit193> If anyone wants to smoke test them panel plugins before I copy over, that could be handy.
<pavlushka>  bug 1590771
<ubottu> bug 1590771 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Mobile Broadband does not activates after inserting usb modem in Xubuntu 16.04." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1590771
<pavlushka> if anyone helps me with that if I am wrong.
<flocculant> pavlushka: #xubuntu
<pavlushka> flocculant: I filed that bug but if anyone can tell me whether it is relevant or not, though I should have asked that before filing the bug.
<Unit193> Strong recommendation: We don't push GTK3 packages to the archive at all, but instead PPA them.  This gives the option to try them out still, while allowing us to get fixes and updates to them without any SRU process.  Much less fallout if some bad bug is discovered, and no paperwork to fix.  Also, we don't yet know how long the development cycle is, and I'm sure we don't want 4.13 packages in an 
<Unit193> LTS.
<bluesabre> Unit193: sounds very reasonable
<Unit193> I don't *think* gdbus ports are as likely to hit problems, but could do the same thing there.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-10
<ali1234> the trouble with PPA is it makes reporting bugs unnecessarily difficult. which is totally not your fault, i've been asking for launchpad/apport to support bug reports against PPAs for years
<ali1234> on balance a PPA is probably the most sensible way still
<Unit193> Can't use an apport hook to re-assign it?
<ali1234> i don't know. all i know is "ubuntu-bug" will refuse to submit a report if you are using ppa packages
<ali1234> not for everything, just for the packages from the ppa and stuff that depends on them
<ali1234> also you can't report bugs against a ppa because launchpad doesn't have a way to assign them like that
<ali1234> it must be an official package or upstream project hosted on launchpad
<Unit193> Right, and by the looks of it at least it's not easily done, no.
<knome> is there a simple tool that could submit bug data to bugzilla?
<ali1234> before MATE was official they had a PPA and an empty project, and told people to go to the project age and click "report a bug" for everything. and then they'd triage that manually
<knome> or alternatively, we could just write a small (set of) script(s) to gather data we want in the reports for certain components and dump then in an archive or concat into a single file
<Unit193> apport-collect with the bug reported to the project does even, right?
<ali1234> knome: i believe debian has "debian-bug" which presumably talks to DBTS, but i 've never used it
<ali1234> i dont know about bugzilla... maybe fedora has something i think they use bugzilla?
<Unit193> pkg:reportbug
<knome> i don't know either, but is there any reason why we wouldn't want reports directly upstream (xfce bugzilla)?
<Unit193> I'd presume less people have accounts.
<ali1234> no, it's just relatively hard to get good bug reports that way compared to "ubuntu-bug <package>"
<Unit193> Also, I've used 'bugz' in the past, but that's not exactly what you're looking for either.  Just a CLI interface using the API. :/
<knome> less xfce people follow LP...
<bluesabre> we could patch ubuntu-bug in our PPA
<bluesabre> >.>
<Unit193> Ahaha. :D
<bluesabre> I think that might be a valid solution here
<ali1234> would be a good idea to talk to the launchpad devs if you are serious about that
<bluesabre> or fork us a xubuntu-bug or ppa-bug
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - just because *we* happen to be the ones doing this gtk3 stuff and in a ppa, doesn't actually follow that the bugs need to be on LP - they're not xubuntu bugs are they
<flocculant> at least not until they're in Xubuntu
<flocculant> so why not tell people to report to bugzilla
<Unit193> They are if I screwed up the packaging. :P
<Unit193> But aye.
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> Unit193: ubiquity is working btw
<flocculant> hah - I see knome said the same thing 
<Unit193> Oh nice, missed that but means I should respin.
<flocculant> kind of why I mentioned it :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/appfinder.png
<Unit193> Fun times, nice crash of /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/xfce4/panel/wrapper-1.0 /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/xfce4/panel/plugins/libxfce4powermanager.so 19 23068698 power-manager-plugin Power\ Manager\ Plug
<genii> ooooo
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-11
<tracker1> hi all - flocculant here, all gone a bit wrong - back when I'm back 
<ochosi> Unit193: yuck, the gtk3 ppa breaks the panel horribly (with xfconf i presume)
<Unit193> ochosi: I don't see that in VM.
<ochosi> says "invalid position" or something, i guess it's what ali mentioned in one of his emails that the array stuff of the panel won't work anymore)
<Unit193> Aww, you said it'd be safe, and indeed looks safe in the VM. :3
<ochosi> i never said xfconf would be safe :)
<Unit193> re: -notifyd and xfconf: <ochosi> greybird should have it soon and if i understood ali correctly the panel and settings *should* work
<Unit193> Anywho, weird I'm not seeing anything yet, but hrm.
<ochosi> yeah, i guess the latter isn't true
<Unit193> Xenial right?
<ochosi> yeah
<Unit193> Also if you want the Panel plugins, they're still in staging. :P
<ochosi> yeah, i'll try to install all of them next week
<ochosi> uhm, you mean your staging, right? not xubuntu dev staging
<Unit193> Heh, allllrighty.  And yeah, exactly.
<Unit193> A couple things I noticed in systemload: 1. You can't click anywhere in a checkboxes text anymore.  2. Due to placement of the switches, the checkbox to display text or not reads like it comes first (As a LTR reader.)
<ochosi> ideally write it down and send it to the ML, then i guess landry will take a look
<ochosi> he wasn't really sure about the UI anyway, hence the .99
<ochosi> i also wanted to take a look for that reason (and maybe knome will too..?)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-06-12
<knome> ochosi, maybe after my trip
<knome> on the airport now, waiting for the first flight
<knome> ochosi, oh hmm, now i really read the backlog... i did talk with gaston about the GUI already... but i'm not sure if the current state will be final
<ochosi> knome: travel safe!
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mousepad/news/20160612T222434Z.html new -settings and -session too.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Is there any reason to keep catfish 1.4 out of debian?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Have you done any of those merges or can i take some?
<Unit193> I have done nothing on the 3 that I just mentioned.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-05
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Was there any reason catfish in debian wasnt updated, or just lack of time?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: primary lack of time, but also because when they moved away from svn, I no longer understood how to upload python packages
<Unit193> bluesabre: BTW, I've been presuming you'd want to do parole, so left it.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, From what i can tell only python modules went to git, which i can barely use. I think PAPT is still svn
<Unit193> SVN is harder. :3
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Also, welcome back?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, University break and i have nothing to do, so i guess so. Have i missed much?
<flocculant> hi Noskcaj :)
<Noskcaj> Hi flocculant :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: svn is harder, but there was a single inject command that did everything automatically
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-06
<Unit193> xubuntu_set-accountsservice-user-bg.patch will need porting to gdbus too.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfconf 4.13.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfconf-4-13-1-released-tp49361.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
 * Unit193 wonders why the perl build-deps are there, but then --disable-perl is passed.
<Unit193> ochosi: I pushed xfce4-notifyd with the patch that leaves the daemon running to xfce4-gtk3 for Artful people.
 * flocculant gives up knowing what state his install is in ... 
<flocculant> I thought I had that :p
<Unit193> You did, likely '1aegir1' though.
<Unit193> flocculant: I could give you the new xfconf too, buuut.. :3
<flocculant> 1aegir1 looks familiar :)
<Unit193> I, err, didn't adapt it for the PPA upload, so it still has that. :P
<flocculant> got all sorts of odd things here now lol 
<flocculant> really should see what differences I have to default 
<Unit193> Hint: apt-forktracer
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks :D
<Unit193> Sure thing.
<ochosi> Unit193: cool, thanks!
<Unit193> Everything at least rebuilds: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfconf-rebuild/+packages
<Unit193> ochosi: https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/plugins/actions/actions.c#n939 can that use the new xfsm switch-user?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-07
<Unit193> ochosi: Also, are window buttons scaling well for you? A user reports issues: https://www.dropbox.com/s/unk3luoyet9b7m7/panel.png?dl=0
<stevehope> hi
<stevehope> hi, was just reading the new xubuntu news regarding Q/A  info, it would be handy to have social media buttons on the news pages for ease of use to post to facebook, twitter etc
<knome> pleia2, do we want that ^
<knome> slickymaster, the meeting
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi et al - Ubuntu using GDM - "We will support LightDM for use in the other flavours, though this is likely to be limited to bug fixes from the Ubuntu desktop team." https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-June/004969.html
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.1.32 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-1-32-released-tp49362.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
<bluesabre> flocculant: interesting... no we will probably want to make sure gdm works fine for us just in case
<pleia2> knome: if we can find one that's not awful (take forever to load...), maybe, I do use them myself sometimes
<flocculant> bluesabre: didn't by default last time we had lightdm/lock issues - I checked gdm and a couple of others 
<Unit193> Oh just great... GDM is more tied to GNOME than it was last time too.  "Others are still welcome to contribute to LightDM" well then remove the CLA?
<flocculant> certainly wants to install the world seemingly
<knome> pleia2, we could probably bake our own... i don't think the code required is too complex to write ourself
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm presuming no tumbler SRU.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-08
<Unit193> eric_the_idiot: I have no idea if you're "alive", but https://git.xfce.org/xfce/garcon/commit/?id=41c87455659fe9016dbb1bae2d66bfa565f9eac9 is that added 'XDT_CHECK_PACKAGE([LIBXFCE4UI], [libxfce4ui-1], [4.10.0])' unneeded?
<flocculant> bluesabre: talking of sru's - what's the next step for weather and thunar? 
<eric_the_idiot> Unit193: yes, good catch!
<bluesabre> flocculant: now they've been accepted into proposed, so testing and waiting 7 days
<flocculant> bluesabre: timing impeccable - just walked back in :p
<bluesabre> Unit193: not sure that we need it, but if you can find some bugs that the new tumbler fixes, we can move that along
<flocculant> bluesabre: I can hardware test for 16.04 - not got anything else other than artful though - I'll keep an eye on that bug for replies
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks :)
<flocculant> np :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-10
<Unit193> eric_the_idiot: Any chance we'll have a release of garcon with all the pc files worked out soon? :)
<eric_the_idiot> Maybe? I'll see about finding time on my next day off
<Unit193> Oh shiny, you're alive yet again!
<Unit193> THanks.
<eric_the_idiot> I read all the pings, I just don't always have time to respond (or it's days later)
<Unit193> I was expecting the latter, which works for me. :D
<Unit193> ochosi: Considering https://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/tree/nautilus-desktop/nautilus-desktop-window.c#n238, https://github.com/mate-desktop/caja/blob/master/src/caja-application.c#L765, and https://github.com/Eloston/nemo-gnome/blob/master/src/nemo-desktop-window.c#L132 can xubuntu_improve-nautilus-interactions.patch be merged upstream to xfdesktop?
<bluesabre> Unit193: always cracks me up that nautilus uses deprecated code https://developer.gnome.org/gdk3/stable/GdkScreen.html#gdk-screen-get-number :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: At least a recent deprecation?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> But it makes me feel less bad that we can't keep up when core gnome can't either
<bluesabre> I wonder if that's how they decide what features get dropped... :-)
<knome> :)
<knome> probably..
<Unit193> I thought they had so much time, they deprecated stuff just so they'd have new replacements to write...
<bluesabre> also, morning all
<Unit193> Good evening/night.
<knome> hello
<bluesabre> !team | You should now have mail regarding a team vote for inclusion of a new package :)
<ubottu> You should now have mail regarding a team vote for inclusion of a new package :): team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<knome> yes
#xubuntu-devel 2017-06-11
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [blackbird] r89 Fix transparent textview... (by Eric Koegel)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [blackbird] r90 Increase the xfwm4 window border... (by Eric Koegel)
<eric_the_idiot> Unit193: new garcon released, thanks for the help finding bugs with it
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfdesktop 4.13.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfdesktop-4-13-1-released-tp49383.html (by Eric Koegel)
<akxwi-dave> anyone know when we can expect the new parole in the iso?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: garcon 0.6.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-garcon-0-6-1-released-tp49385.html (by Eric Koegel)
<bluesabre> Unit193: don't suppose you have an xfconf 4.13 package lying around somewhere..?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4util 4.13.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4util-4-13-0-released-tp49387.html (by Eric Koegel)
<Unit193> eric_the_idiot: Fantastic, glad to be of service.
<Unit193> bl	Yeah, did a test build of rdeps too.
<Unit193> bluesabre*
<Unit193> eric_the_idiot: We've been shipping https://sigma.unit193.net/patches/xubuntu_improve-nautilus-interactions.patch for ages, but now with https://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/tree/nautilus-desktop/nautilus-desktop-window.c#n238, https://github.com/mate-desktop/caja/blob/master/src/caja-application.c#L765, and https://github.com/Eloston/nemo-gnome/blob/master/src/nemo-desktop-window.c#L132 I kind of 
<Unit193> wonder if this should be upstreamed to you.  Though, I'm not really heavily into development, so not sure of the suitability.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I can find where I put xfconf if you need it for something?
<bluesabre> Unit193: only if its easily accessible, otherwise no problem :)
<bluesabre> no need to sink much time into finding or getting it
<Unit193> ~/Downloads/xfce4-gtk/xfconf-4-13.1
<bluesabre> doesn't seem too far away
<Unit193> s/gtk/gtk3/
<Unit193> https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfconf_4.13.1-0ppa1+gtk3.dsc
<Unit193> bluesabre: IIRC it still breaks things at runtime, yes?
<bluesabre> Unit193: probably, xfce4-settings is not compatible yet
<bluesabre> plan is to make it so before I release the next version
<Unit193> bluesabre: We'll need a newer garcon for xfdesktop, but that's otherwise ready.  Corsac branched xfconf 4.13
<bluesabre> awesome
<bluesabre> gobject introspection was added with the most recent release, I believe?
<bluesabre> might be able to tie that into menulibre 
<Unit193> Only for ui and util.
 * bluesabre cries
<Unit193> I'd guess he'll get there, unless someone else does first.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything (else) I can look at??
<bluesabre> Unit193: nothing at the moment, unless you're bored and want to upload the new parole to artful
<Unit193> bluesabre: I was leaving that to you, so you could feel even more complete with that one.
<bluesabre> works for me :D
<bluesabre> I'll probably get that uploaded today
<ochosi> do we have parole 0.9.x in a ppa too?
<bluesabre> I think so, if not it will be
<ochosi> that'd be great
<ochosi> but anyway, i can build and run from master too
<ochosi> just thought i'd look into the sidebar idea maybe
<ochosi> but maybe (after some more thought) it would have to be some sort of custom sidebar, which would mean more work :/
<bluesabre> if there's some possible benefit elsewhere, spec it out and we can toss it into ui
<chatter29> hey guys
<chatter29> allah is doing
<chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
<chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
 * genii slides Unit193 fresh cookies and coffee
<Unit193> Danke.
<Unit193> bluesabre: introspection won't be enabled for util until there's a user of it.
<bluesabre> Unit193: only interested in intro for garcon :)
<Unit193> Figured.
<Unit193> bluesabre: We'll see if I broke the gtk3 PPA, pushed a few things.  xfdesktop is a bit rough around the edges.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-04
<Spass> hello, it's probably late, but I've noticed bad date on the Meetings wiki - "The next Xubuntu community meeting is on Monday, the 6th of June at 22:00 UTC"
<Spass> should be 4th
<slickymasterWork> Corrected Spass 
<slickymasterWork> thanks for the heads up
<Spass> np
<bluesabre> Unit193, ochosi, knome, (others familiar with git), please feel free to add anything you can think of to https://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/git to ease the transition or as a useful guide to new git users
<bluesabre> I'll be sending out the git announcement on the M/L tonight after the meeting, and will be linking to that doc for more information
<knome> bluesabre, i'll try to have time to look at it later this week
<Unit193> C/qa.xml:44: element include: XInclude error : could not load C/qa-testing.xml, and no fallback was found                                       
<Unit193> qa.xml:26: element section: validity error : Element section content does not follow the DTD, expecting (sectioninfo? , (title , subtitle? , ti$
<Unit193> qa.xml:31: element xref: validity error : IDREF attribute linkend references an unknown ID "qa-testing-ppa"                                     
<Unit193> qa.xml:31: element xref: validity error : IDREF attribute linkend references an unknown ID "qa-testing-exploratory"                             
<Unit193> Document C/index.xml does not validate 
<flocculant> that's broken then 
<krytarik> Might be just the missing closing '</para>' on line 32 of qa-testing.xml
<flocculant> probably is 
<flocculant> I'd do something about it if I could - but I can't
<flocculant> it's certainly missing :p
<Unit193> Also, that's...From the wrong repo, so disregard meee.:D
<flocculant> !team | meeting in 30ish
<ubottu> meeting in 30ish: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant>  /join #xubuntu-council
<flocculant> lets try that again :p
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<flocculant> not doing this again ... been awake since 4:30 :p
<flocculant> twice actually - managed a small nap this afternoon lol
<bluesabre> yikes
<knome> uhh
<knome> accidental right time and place
<knome> i'll take it
<flocculant> evening knome 
<knome> hullo
<knome> laptop soon
<Unit193> flocculant: Again,sorry! :/
<flocculant> sorry for what?
<knome> flocculant, simply being here? :P
<Unit193> Being awful last meeting.
<Unit193> Or what knome said.
<flocculant> oh nvm about that :)
<flocculant> either lol
<Spass> hello o/
<knome> 'lo
<flocculant> hi Spass 
<Spass> getting ready for the meeting?
<flocculant> yea
 * flocculant puts on the rocket boots to drag this one along tonight
 * bluesabre wants rocket boots
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> comically, https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base/+merge/347318 is now thousands of lines old 
<flocculant> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun  4 22:00:10 2018 UTC.  The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<flocculant> #chair bluesabre Unit193 
<meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 bluesabre flocculant
<bluesabre> evening all
<flocculant> who's here tonight then :)
<knome> o/
<albinard> one interloper - me
<Spass> \o
<flocculant> anyway lets get going and wait for Unit193 to say he's here :p
<flocculant> #topic Open action items
<flocculant> looks like all are done
<flocculant> #done knome to send another call for council membership nominations 
<flocculant> #done knome to set up the umbrella blueprint for CC
<flocculant> #done knome to deal with dev.x.o for CC 
<bluesabre> nice
<flocculant> #topic Updates and Announcements
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> #info Release Schedule for Cosmic not set up
<flocculant> should do council I suppose
<flocculant> #info New Council set up
<ochosi> evening all
<flocculant> #info Thanks to the 2 outgoing council chappies knome and ochosi 
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<flocculant> anyone else have anything for this?
<knome> you're all welcome and congrats again for the new council :)
<ochosi> +1
<bluesabre> #info xubuntu code branches moved to git (more on this later)
<bluesabre> (no more updates from me, I think)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> #topic Discussion
<flocculant> then :)
<flocculant> #subtopic Blueprints 
<flocculant> can team leads get their blueprints up together so we've got an idea what to expect
<bluesabre> Umbrella blueprint available at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-c-roadmap
<flocculant> not that any but the dev one changes much from cycle to cycle :D
<flocculant> I know my one doesn't ...
<bluesabre> time to break something
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> already updated the artwork stuff, but tbh it's mostly maintenance at this point
<flocculant> ack
<ochosi> unless someone wants to step up in that area, it's going to stay at this level
<bluesabre> ochosi is waiting for gtk4
<flocculant> I had a question about arty stuff - but bluesabre answered that
<flocculant> ha ha 
<ochosi> you mean as in "waiting for gtk4 to finally give up artwork completely"?
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre> lol
<flocculant> lol
<bluesabre> for the visitors, blueprint progress can be tracked at https://dev.xubuntu.org/
<ochosi> the dev blueprint looks good to me
<ochosi> quite a bit of interesting stuff there too
<flocculant> yea - to me as well
<ochosi> wondering whether we should at some point drop certain work items from the blueprint, as we have dragged them with us for at least 1 LTS cycle
<bluesabre> might add some more stuff to it soon after I experiment a bit
<ochosi> (e.g. parole)
<bluesabre> ochosi: I wouldn't be opposed to dropping that
<ochosi> then let's just do that
<bluesabre> not going to be learning polkit unless I have to
<ochosi> we can still keep it as a bugreport in bugzilla
<ochosi> polkit or packagekit?
<bluesabre> er, packagekit
<bluesabre> p*kit
<ochosi> (dropped it)
<bluesabre> thanks
<Unit193> > elementary-xfce: Split packaging for distribution improvements   This is in progress.
<ochosi> the pidgin stuff i also have an unrealistic feeling about
<ochosi> Unit193: marked as such now
<ochosi> bluesabre: originally you signed up for patching pidgin, do you still feel you wanna do that?
<Unit193> It's basically done, just have to update some copyright crap and resubmit..
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, still might poke it
<ochosi> personally i'd love to get it done, but i know *i* won't have the energy
<ochosi> too much xfce stuff that needs attention
<bluesabre> trying to do a lot early in the cycle so I have more energy to do investigative patchy stuff
<ochosi> (at least one less thunar plugin now that blocks shipping 1.7)
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: have your feelings wrt xfconf changed? do you still wanna go forward with it this cycle?
<Unit193> We'll see.
<ochosi> i'd rather get rid of the maybes as soon as possible so i know what to focus on upstream
<ochosi> that's my background
<Unit193> Not at this current stage, but things might start looking better.
<ochosi> what's the current stage?
<ochosi> what would have to change for things to look better?
<flocculant> no-one knows :p
<ochosi> seemingly...
<ochosi> Unit193?
<Unit193> Oh, hi.  Yes, not everything is ready yet.  Don't remember if it goes further than thunar plugins not being ported yet.  Might be just that.  I'll look soon.
<ochosi> i meant wrt xfconf specifically
<ochosi> the thunar stuff is sorta in progress i'd say, and do-able mostly
<flocculant> most of this 4.13 stuff is all in ppa's currently is it not?
<flocculant> if not all
<ochosi> not sure tbh
<ochosi> the panel didn't use to be
<Unit193> Not quite everything, no.
<Unit193> flocculant: Daily builds will start spitting out for Cosmic.
<ochosi> would definitely be helpful to get everything PPA'd so ppl can start taking things for a spin
<bluesabre> +1
<Unit193> I'll see what I'm missing once I get Cosmic up for floc.
<flocculant> ok - well currently obviously set to bionic here - if I can be told when the ppa actually gets cosmic I can see what I find here
<flocculant> ack
<bluesabre> yay coordination :D
<flocculant> that'll at least see a start to it
<Unit193> I said I would when he asked, I was just in Indiana at the time.  Anyway, anything else here?
<Unit193> Also, xfce4-settings needs to be fixed first.
<flocculant> not from me on bp's or this  
<bluesabre> yeah, remind me what needs done there
<Unit193> (Xfce 14381)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14381 in Xfsettingsd "xfsettingsd --replace does not replace old daemon" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14381
<bluesabre> perfect
<ochosi> i wonder if this is fixed by the gdbus transition in git master
<bluesabre> will get that on my list for this week
<bluesabre> so I'm no longer a blocker
<flocculant> anything else?
<bluesabre> nothing more bp-related from me
<flocculant> #subtopic Git
<flocculant> what an awesome subtopic for this old git :D
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> so bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> #info We've moved all of our branches (except test cases) to git!
<bluesabre> #link https://wiki.xubuntu.org/devel/git for more information
<bluesabre> We'll be working on writing some quality documentation so nobody is left in the dark
<flocculant> :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: actually what's there is a good start
<flocculant> just for those not reading bp subscription mails :
<ochosi> not sure you really wanna go into the details of how git works
<ochosi> that'll soon start to be a copy-paste job from the git book
<Unit193> ochosi: Perhaps a "git for bzr users" can either be written or linked.
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, don't want to do too much, don't want to do too little
<flocculant> threw me completely
<ochosi> yeah, sounds like a valid link
 * flocculant has enough trouble as it is
<bluesabre> but yeah, if any git users want to drop by and write up some nice docs, feel free to
<flocculant> it was the fails that completely did for me tbh
<flocculant> if it had just worked I would likely have not had a paddy :p
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> anyway - anything else we need to say on this? 
<bluesabre> Hopefully we can smooth out the issues over this cycle so there's no more paddies
<flocculant> other than thanks for doing it :)
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> flocculant: nothing more so far
 * flocculant grabs the rocket boots then
<flocculant> #subtopic Core
<flocculant> so
<bluesabre> so
<flocculant> this one 
<flocculant> again :p
<bluesabre> This one might be a bit delayed
<bluesabre> I refreshed all the patches
<flocculant> I see we've got the files updated?
<bluesabre> and seemingly years of history are now missing from lp:debian-cd
<flocculant> oh right
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/debian-cd last modified 2013-05-06
<bluesabre> (wasn't like that before)
<flocculant> well I guess that's not good then
<bluesabre> no, probably not
<bluesabre> need to ask around about that
<bluesabre> But, the short of it is, patches are up-to-date, merges have been requested
<flocculant> ok
<bluesabre> and I'll be harrassing the ubuntu teams to get it in this cycle
<flocculant> so generally what's our next step - get -release involved again?
<Unit193> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/debian-cd/ubuntu/files ?
<flocculant> should look up when typing ...
<flocculant> bluesabre: obviously there the sooner the better to get it testing 
<bluesabre> Unit193: seems like they moved trunk
<bluesabre> breaking https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base/+merge/347318 :D
<bluesabre> flocculant: definitely
<bluesabre> but yeah, progress on core is being made
<flocculant> cool
<flocculant> so at the moment - kind of up in the air till we find out some 'stuff' ?
<bluesabre> yeah, will probably grab slangasek once I get the merge request sorted
<flocculant> k - do you want to action you there?
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to continue getting Xubuntu Core patches merged
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to continue getting Xubuntu Core patches merged
<flocculant> cos I'm too tired to word it sensibly
<flocculant> there were 2 other items - but I tabled them as 1 we sort of discussed in bp's and the other depends on that :)
<flocculant> #topic AOB
<flocculant> anyone got anything they want to bring up?
<bluesabre> Don't think I do
<flocculant> oh
<flocculant> I'll just mention this
<flocculant> #info Checking of package testcases is well in hand - thanks to willem 
<flocculant> plan to get that moving this cycle some
<bluesabre> awesome
<flocculant> currently he's stuck on orage trying to work it out even though he never uses it - and it was written by someone who never uses it :p
<flocculant> anyway - nothing else from me 
<flocculant> so if no-one else has anything ...
 * flocculant waits a short while to cool the boots a bit
<ochosi> nothing else from me
<knome> nope
<flocculant> #topic Schedule next meeting
<flocculant> #action slickymaster to set next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to set next meeting
<flocculant> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun  4 22:47:13 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-06-04-22.00.moin.txt
<flocculant> ok - thanks peeps - cya tomorrow - night night :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Please allow us to drop d/p/xubuntu_support-dmtool.patch!
<Unit193> bluesabre: Why we no sync thunar?!
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/ytqYbYCQuzcUZdBOqXQ4
<bluesabre> Unit193: I see no reason not to, go for it
<Unit193> bluesabre: Done.  Oh!  You did the reviewy thingy, I think?
<ochosi> Unit193: ok, if you promise to package the panel sooner than later i'll try to get it merged for 4.13 ;)
<Unit193> Well, considering I've been highly procrastinating because of that merge?  Sure! :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: which reviewy thingy?
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks for running the meeting
<Unit193> flocculant: Yes thanks.  And your ppa 'experimental' will be ready by morning.
<Unit193> sn-plug, IIRC you said yes.
<bluesabre> Unit193: indeed
<ochosi> bluesabre: any reason not to check if gdmflexiserver is in the path actions_plugin_action_activate ?
<ochosi> i mean i agree it's not making matters worse...
<bluesabre> ochosi: don't see any reason why not
<ochosi> i mean the path check wasn't there before
<ochosi> maybe you dind
<ochosi> didn't add it not to alter the behavior
<ochosi> not sure
<bluesabre> I don't remember tbh
<bluesabre> I think gdmflexiserver itself is deprecated
<ochosi> yeah, the executable has been dropped a longer while ago
<ochosi> i guess it makes sense to integrate this change with the upstream panel too
<ochosi> anyway, i created a git patch based on the existing debian patch
<ochosi> i'll push this now, so it'll end up in the next panel 4.13 release
<ochosi> backporting for 4.12 doesn't make too much sense imo
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> are you as optimistic as me that we might be able to get 4.14 out the door in the next 12 months?
<ochosi> yeah, after all the hot season will end at some point
<ochosi> so ppl will end up behind their keyboards again
<Unit193> ochosi: For switching, xfce4-session or whatnot has a new feature for that, but unfortunately can't quite rely on it existing yet since it's only in 4.13.
<ochosi> where would i find that?
<Unit193> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/commit/?id=ac387875a5e0d4239848fa3560757fb7ef0c2338
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> i guess i could try the dbus call and fall back to dm-tool if it fails
<ochosi> another night though, for now you can be happy about dropping another patch ;)
<Unit193> Yes!
<Unit193> And, all the -panel delta.
<bluesabre> another patch dropped, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC0q_GXMw7U :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Didn't we kind of try to upstream the accountsservice patch of xfdesktop?  I don't see it in commit logs nor bugzilla.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-05
<SwissBot> feed xubuntu-docs had 10 updates, showing the latest 7
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: flocculant's 2018 changes to contributor-docs @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=394d9ad3dd280c6e6320f7c9b31538e4eda32a99 (by slickymaster)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: Fix previous commit. @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/commit/?id=2d3772afc6c1a619000b108ebc56cd3fe975fecf (by Krytarik Raido)
<Unit193> I still have libxfce4util-4.13.1 locally because of the introspection support. >_<
<bluesabre> Unit193: I don't remember how hard we tried :)
<Unit193> I *thought* there was some paper trail.
<Unit193> Or progress.
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks :)
<Unit193> It still doesn't have the rest of the thunar plugins, but if you mention ones you use I can put them at the top of the list.
<flocculant> I seem to have -archive and -media-tags
<Unit193> Use them?
<flocculant> not sure I use archive and the other one I'm not sure if that's doing the open with for media players or there wsa a patch for that
<flocculant> pretty positive I don't use the archive one - but others do so I guess I should at least check it :p
<flocculant> other thing I do - but not sure if because plugin or git thunar
<flocculant> I *think* the latter
<flocculant> logs are up now
<Unit193> ...Well I'm smart.
<knome> of course you are.
<knome> smartest chap on the channel
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+sourcepub/9158112/+listing-archive-extra helps to build-depend on it too..
<bluesabre> evening all
<Unit193> thunar is packaged wrong.
<bluesabre> :O
<Unit193> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/373294088/thunar_1.7.2-1~18.10_1.7.2-1ppa1~18.10.diff.gz
<ochosi> Unit193: still waiting for the panel and thunar-vcs-plugin in the experimental PPA ;)
<Unit193> (https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/goodies/thunar-vcs-plugin/tree/debian/master/debian, https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/goodies/thunar-media-tags-plugin/tree/debian/master/debian, https://salsa.debian.org/xfce-team/goodies/thunar-archive-plugin/tree/debian/master/debian for the rest)
<ochosi> oh, right then
<Unit193> ochosi: Do you use that plguin?
<ochosi> i do now, since i started helping to remove some deprecations
<Unit193> ...Would you be able to test others? :)
<ochosi> but not on a regular basis, i mostly use the cli for git
<ochosi> others? you mean e.g. archive or media-tags?
<Unit193> So far I have the gtkhash and dropbox ones up, but yes those will go too.
<ochosi> sure, i can take all of them for a spin
<ochosi> anything specifically you want tested or just that they "work"..?
<ochosi> right now i have a bit of a frankensteinish setup with lots of components built from master on top of 17.10, i'll do clean installs for both 18.04 and 18.10 soon though
<Unit193> Pretty must just functionality tests, yeah.
<Unit193> There, for you I got the rest too. :P
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> oh already?
<ochosi> i'll have to test tomorrow or so
<ochosi> gotta get some sleep
<ochosi> and just fyi, i'll be afk until monday after tomorrow
<ochosi> so if i don't make it tomorrow, you'll have to wait till next week..
<ochosi> at least for me
<ochosi> n8
<Unit193> Good night.
<Unit193> What happens if gdmflixiserver doesn't exist nor does dm-tool?  (https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/commit/?id=19b14fe75720b4b2db54070af10042504edabe95)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-06
<Unit193> Suppose I should link https://ftp-master.debian.org/deferred/numlockx_1.2-7.1_source.changes
<ochosi> Unit193: then i guess the behavior is still the same as before
<ochosi> i personally would expect an error message or something
<ochosi> i'm not too happy about this logout stuff anyway
<ochosi> but at least the patch made it a little better
<Unit193> Sure.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-0-released-tp51137.html (by Alexander Schwinn)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-07
<Unit193> Delta gone in mousepad.
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mousepad/news/20180607T101941Z.html
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfconf/+packages test rebuild against xfconf 4.13
<Unit193> My efforts with desktopnova in Debian came through. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: excellent
<Unit193> So as noted in -ot, just need a new ristretto, and to patch xfwm4...
<Unit193> bluesabre: Talk of xfdesktop release, can we try for that accountsservice patch in?
<Unit193> I sync'd mouseie.
<flocculant> you got an ie thing at the moment :p
<Unit193> New thunar for you in a sec.
<flocculant> ooh
<flocculant> I guess I can lose the git one then :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-08
<Unit193> ochosi: Did your panel.
<Unit193> Urgh, it's got that stupid m4/ thing too..
<Unit193> Though, if I didn't have vala or gir stuff:
<Unit193> libxfce4panel/Makefile.am:193: error: HAVE_INTROSPECTION does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
<Unit193> libxfce4panel/Makefile.am:222: error: ENABLE_VAPIGEN does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
<bluesabre> Unit193: will try to get my patch in
<bluesabre> might have ochosi upgrade my xfce powers
<Unit193> Thanks! \o/
<ochosi> Unit193: thanks, awesome! there are a gazillion typos like that in the panel, i'll one day try to fix them all in one go
<ochosi> bluesabre: what powers would you want/need?
<ochosi> currently travelling, but can take care next week
<Unit193> ochosi: Well, that is.  if the gobject-introspection and valac aren't installed, autoreconf fails.  Expected?
<Unit193> As far as the spelling fix, lintian has quite a few corrections at this point, so automatically finds a few.
<Unit193> https://salsa.debian.org/lintian/lintian/blob/master/data/spelling/corrections
<bluesabre> !info gcc cosmic
<ubottu> gcc (source: gcc-defaults (1.176ubuntu3)): GNU C compiler. In component main, is optional. Version 4:7.3.0-3ubuntu3 (cosmic), package size 5 kB, installed size 64 kB
<bluesabre> dang
<Unit193> !info gcc-8 cosmic
<ubottu> gcc-8 (source: gcc-8): GNU C compiler. In component universe, is optional. Version 8.1.0-5ubuntu1 (cosmic), package size 8101 kB, installed size 29119 kB
<bluesabre> undang
<Unit193> !info gcc-8 bionic
<ubottu> gcc-8 (source: gcc-8): GNU C compiler. In component universe, is optional. Version 8-20180414-1ubuntu2 (bionic), package size 8085 kB, installed size 29082 kB
<bluesabre> :|
<bluesabre> no escuses anymore then
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-09
<bluesabre> Happy to see this finally fixed, lp 1774838
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1774838 in Launchpad itself "Launchpad issue watching bugs from the Linux Kernel Bug Tracker" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1774838
<Unit193> ...I did the panel package but forgotted to puuuush.
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+sourcepub/9166620/+listing-archive-extra
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<Unit193> Backported dh-autoreconf to 'experimental' for bionic too. :P
<Unit193> now xfce4-panel is PPA'd.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<flocculant> Unit193: updgrading - see new panel, seems a bunch of plugins are going to be removed - https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/6sxpxb4rGk/
<flocculant> not done it yet though - slipping out for a while
<Unit193> xfce4-panel (>= 4.11), xfce4-panel (<< 4.13)
<Unit193> Urgh..
<Unit193> flocculant: Looking into it now.
<Unit193> ...Well this is fun, so there's a few: grep-dctrl -n -FDepends -sPackage "xfce4-panel (<< 4.13)" /var/lib/apt/lists/us.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_bionic*amd64_Packages
<Unit193> Uploading all for a rebuild...
<Unit193> So to sum up: xfce4-panel will cause a transition, thunar will cause a smaller transition, and xfconf will cause a transition.
<Unit193> I think one of you guys must really hate me or something. >_>
<Unit193> flocculant: Upgrades should all go smoothly, and you should be able to get rid of the old libxfconf library, well except for ristretto.
<albinard> Just installed Xubuntu Core 18.10 first alpha (complete with warning), it installed and runs perfectly!
<albinard> Sent my test report to the QA
<knome> :)
<k3dAR> hi, question about "Xubuntu QA Experimental" PPA, today set of updates packages is only for 18.10 and with use this PPA on 18.04 and do full-upgrade is missed many packages and apt try remove many xfce packages... will be this "fixed"? or 18.04 is from now not supported in this PPA? thx
<Unit193> I haven't pushed a rebuild for the panel plugins to Bionic, and some depend on xfce4-panel (<< 4.13)
<k3dAR> thanks :-) and is please posible do it? or is any technical problem?
<Unit193> I wasn't planning on it, since testing should likely be done more on Cosmic, but should be doable.
<Unit193> k3dAR: Starting the upload now...
<Unit193> Also, since this is development builds, they have a chance to break.  We're also evaluating whether we want to ship everything in Cosmic, so if you run into any problems we'd love to hear them.
<k3dAR> many thanks :-) I would understand if the support of 18.04 was stopped(complete remove 18.04 or remove today libxfce4panel-2.0-4  and xfce4-panel and keep set of previous non removable set), but it would be a pity when it is the last lts
<k3dAR> of course, if i have any problem, i report it... i use xubuntu 18.04 + xubuntu-dev ppa as primary system/nb...
<Unit193> Bionic is only getting them because it is $current_release, not because it's LTS.
<k3dAR> is any actual bug report page on another place that launchpad where is look like unused? or report it here on irc channel? or any mailing list?
<k3dAR> understand, then after release 18.10, will be ppa for 18.04 stoped? i think from history that support yours dev ppa for 16.04 will be until 18.04 relases or not?
<k3dAR> btw: sorry for me bad english :-)
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+packages?field.name_filter=&field.status_filter=published&field.series_filter=bionic they're all buildin'.  While usually it's recommended to report them to launchpad or Xfce's bugzilla, since these are in a PPA and we're evaluating whether to ship them or not I'd say we'd be specifically interested so IRC or the devel mailing list 
<Unit193> would be good.  And, well thses aren't really *backports*, they're more development releases.  I don't personally like trying to backport to the last LTS as it gets considerably more difficult as time moves on, but I'm not the only dev in the Xubuntu team. :)
<Unit193> GTK3 version requirements get bumped higher than the LTS has, and libraries change (eg, we'll likely switch xfce4-indicator-plugin to use Ayatana indicators in cosmic, this would break on Bionic.)
<k3dAR> build finished, published and i have succesfully all upgraded, i do restart lighdm session now...
<k3dAR> Unit193: at first glance it's not any problem :-) thanks
<Unit193> You're welcome.
<k3dAR> and i see that in xfce panel settings is now localised "Backup and Restore" button, nice, i reported this before :-)
<Unit193> flocculant: Can I get some QA buy-in on this, btw?
<k3dAR> Unit193: i try all updates plugins (cpugraph mailwatch notes panel places quicklauncher sensors timer verve weather), add to panel and configure it, all work... only new plugin messenger i don't know if work, in panel settings not have icon and not posibility to configure
<Unit193> k3dAR: To be clear, while some of these are new plugins, most are just rebuilt against the new xfce4-panel.  The messanger plugin is a very old plugin, and as far as I know doesn't even really have a home.  I'd be surprised if that one worked.
<Unit193> xfce4-linelight-plugin xfce4-radio-plugin xfce4-hdaps are all oooold.
<k3dAR> when talking about old plugins, is any chance of resurection of thunar-shares-plugin? :-)
<k3dAR> ugh, 9year about 0.2 in git now see 0.3 version from 3 month ago
<Unit193> https://git.xfce.org/thunar-plugins/thunar-shares-plugin/commit/?id=9f9d2429217838b3b8375e41ab3675412cf1d0ed but seems it was only ported..
<k3dAR> yes, already downloaded and try compile, but thunarx is new for me :-)
<k3dAR> ok, needed package libthunarx-3-dev
<Unit193> (RFP - #672539) http://bugs.debian.org/672539 thunar-shares-plugin
<ubottu> Debian bug 672539 in wnpp "RFP: thunar-shares-plugin -- samba usershare support for thunar filemanager (XFCE)" [Wishlist,Open]
<k3dAR_> Unit193: thunar-shares-plugin compiled&installed ok, but in folder properties not present :-) (user is in sambashare group, lightdm restarted) anyway good is after many years somebody work on it :-)
<Unit193> k3dAR_: I don't think it's really being worked on, just ported to the new thunar and gtk3. And you have to set the prefix to use it with system panel.
<k3dAR_> understand, i just want try it ;-) prefix set using autogen parameter as in README, that find where is thunarx prefix, /usr... also i look in README where is some usershare parameters for smb.conf, though mentioned is not need by user set from 8.04, but who know :-)
<k3dAR_> Unit193: modify smb.conf not help, but youre right, i have some problem with prefix, autoget show /usr, but install is to / ;-)
<k3dAR_> my bad, autogen show /usr before when i try with thunarx-3 parameter, but after i install correct dev package, then i use thunarx-1 as is in README and this not set preffix... anyway with right prefix /usr and really installed to /usr not show in folder properties
<k3dAR_> Unit193: ok, now in folder properties is shared tab, set share using it add to usershare ("net usershare list" show it) and via network is accessed :-) only problem was (as you say) with prefix, command from README set prefix to /usr, install put plugin in path /usr/lib/thunarx-3, but i look that real path for plugins (where i have already other installed thunar plugins) is /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/thunarx-3, and if manualy 
<k3dAR_> https://s22.postimg.cc/juzn06wcx/thunar-1.8_with_thunar-shares-plugin-0.3.png
<Unit193> So the plugin actually works?
<k3dAR_> yes
<Unit193> Hrm..
<k3dAR_> in source is only need fix detection of plugin path(try find here but not sure where) and in README for configure+autogen s/thunarx-1/thunarx-3/
#xubuntu-devel 2018-06-10
<Unit193> k3dar7: ...I went ahead and packaged that. >_>
<k3dar7> Unit193: what? where? :-)
<Unit193> Haven't pushed it yet because I still need to enter the longer description.
<k3dar7> prepared to PPA?
<Unit193> Nearly ready to push to the PPA, yep.
<k3dar7> nice
<k3dar7> now in Xfce is for "BFU" need only one, xfce4-panel-plugin for "Safe Unmount Flash" ;-)
<k3dar7> * i think modify xfce4-mount-plugin
<Unit193> krytarik: HALP.
<Unit193> Description: quickly share a folder using Samba from Thunar
<Unit193> I need a long one!
<k3dar7> Unit193: mainline about line ? ;-) "The Thunar Shares Plugin (thunar-shares-plugin) allows you to quickly share a folder using Samba from Thunar (the XFCE file manager) without requiring root access." http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/thunar-plugins/thunar-shares-plugin
<Unit193> Not quite, k3dar7.  But uploaded.
<k3dar7> Unit193: remove me compiled before, installed from PPA, work ok :)
<flocculant> Unit193: lots of words there to buy in on - got a one liner for me 
<Unit193> flocculant: xubuntu-dev/experimental has a lot of crap to test.  It snowballs a bit which elements we pick for Cosmic.  I kind of want a go/nogo on the things.  xfconf/xfdesktop/thunar/xfce4-panel are the big ones there.
<flocculant> Unit193: I thought /exp was the just dev release one - and staging the 'backporty' type one 
<Unit193> Correct.
<Unit193> flocculant: They want some dev releases for Cosmic.
<flocculant> by they you mean that user?
<Unit193> flocculant: If you're asking why there's a bunch of other stuff, that's because they have to be rebuilt for either xfconf or xfce4-panel.  'They' == ochosi and bluesabre. :P
<flocculant> my word - there's a lot of plugins in there :D
<Unit193> If you expand, you'll see if it's new or a rebuild.
<flocculant> aah ack to rebuilt ... and as far as they goes - I'm good with that, unless they want all those plugins tested :p
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi ^^ /exp ppa is now big - with lots of things we'd not normally test - what you want?
 * flocculant isn't really awake enough to think about this ...
<Unit193> I haven't talked to them too much on this, they've been doing things upstream so I've taken care of everything downstream (and been busy with Debian too.)
<flocculant> yea I sort of realised that's what was happening
<Unit193> ...my name on everything kind of gave it away didn't it? :3
<flocculant> :P
<Unit193> I'll pick up the development xfdashboard too while I'm at 'er.
<Unit193> Also, thunar-shares-plugin does seem like something that's been asked about before, and quite useful in a mixed system env.
<flocculant> I will at least check those plugins I can check - to make sure the world doesn't explode
<knome> flocculant, did you have a google account? i'm looking at the team calendar editor list and you're not there :)
<knome> though i'm not sure what will happen to it -- i'm planning making my sp.org a non-google account and it's the owner of that calendar
<knome> in the worst case we can just set up a new one...
<knome> (or use another calendar service)
<knome> oh nvm, i just fixed that :P
<knome> (but still, let me know of your google account if you have one)
<bluesabre> flocculant: a spot check to make sure they still work is really all that's needed for the rebuilds
<flocculant> knome: I do have one 
<flocculant> I've added to the team calendar in the past
<flocculant> and ygm
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke - I can do that for ones I don't use - one's I do get a proper going over :p
<knome> flocculant, you're now in the editors list
<flocculant> knome: ack - not sure what that actually is - but ok :p
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'd honestly think more things might break from being rebuilt against xfconf than the panel, though I trust xfconf more than the panel. >_>
<knome> flocculant, you now have the permission to edit the calendar :P
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: just so we don't confuse anyone, what do we put in which PPA again? (staging vs exp)
<ochosi> i thought staging was like "we'll try to ship this in the coming release"
<Unit193> ochosi: 'staging' is backports, afaik.
<knome> if it's backports, why isn't it called backports?
<ochosi> and exp was like "we may try to look into this, but still not convinced"
<knome> imo staging does indeed hint that it's staging for the release
<ochosi> i know it sucks if we have to discuss this again, but i also dont want ppl at the beginning of the cycle to be confused
<ochosi> maybe we write this down somewhere (if we haven't done that yet)
<knome> https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/development.html#development-ppa
<Unit193> OK, well in that case I'm confused.
<knome> i don't think/know if we have a PPA for backports.
<Unit193> Well, that's what I was supposed to do with staging as far as I knew. :D
<Unit193> Note that there's xubuntu-staging and staging.
<knome> if you want to be exceptionally clear on the intent, name them staging-cosmic and staging-backport-bionic
<Unit193> We don't do official backports because nobody reviews them.
<knome> staging-backport-unofficial-bionic
<Spass> link to Xubuntu Staging PPA from that doc seems broken - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
<Unit193> Too many Ubuntus.
<knome> well, nobody noticed it until now and it's the people who wrote it who are readin
<knome> +g
<knome> so..
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Also, the appendix is out of date in regards to applications. :D
<knome> of course
<ochosi> anyway, gotta get some sleep
<knome> ochosi, please
<knome> ochosi, your target email for sp.org fw?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-04
<guiverc> 19.10 daily; has there been an icon change?  it looks strange (check of media all good) in thunar, plus web.browser, terminal at whisker menu has no icon...
<guiverc> the whisker menu items appear when I use `xfsettings --replace` at term..
<guiverc> that command also changed the icons used in thunar window when I 'reload' too
<guiverc> 19.10 qa-test.   second box where it won't shutdown at conclusion of my test.  i just noted in comments on last one, but now not so sure it's enough - advice?
<Unit193> Won't shutdown?
<guiverc> nope.  last box I ctrl+alt+f4 & shutdown worked from there. on gui I get "Received error while trying to log out \n GDBus.Error.org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.InvalidArgs: Type of message, "(yb)", does not match expected type "(b)" if I try again, and menu won't open much... won't load firefox etc
<guiverc> (last box, I meant last qa-test where I had this same issue)
<guiverc> note: i typed that message in; so could include typos
<guiverc> eventually on both I got apport message & now duplicate of bug 1228627
<ubottu> bug 1228627 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole crashed with SIGSEGV in SmcInteractDone()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228627
<guiverc> (likely of no importance. i just shutdown & didn't close firefox, parole or other windows I had open for testing)
<guiverc> third system tested was all good; shutdown as expected.. :)
<guiverc> fourth box all good too.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfdesktop 4.12.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfdesktop-4-12-5-released-tp53997.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
<Unit193> guiverc: Not ignoring your comments last night, just not really sure what to state.  It's good you only saw it once, but leaves me wondering if it's an intermittent failure.
<ajua> i'm go to hanged the goose, see you later
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-05
<guiverc> thanks Unit193; fair enough to respond only if have something to respond.  The message re: shutdown I saw occurred on first two boxes (I commented once i had second box with same issue), but next two boxes did NOT have the issue anyway.
<guiverc> yeah could be my hardware, just tried twice on same d755.  both times it shutdown, once menu icons appeared as they did yesterday (my time), once was perfect... i'll run some memtests etc to verify the box, thanks Unit193
<Unit193> bluesabre: Evening-ish our time?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I guess if we did late evening our time, the others might wake up and have breakfast during the meeting :)
<bluesabre> or early evening to get them before they go to bed
<bluesabre> hmmm
<bluesabre> Evening all
<Unit193> Heya, blue!
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-06
<bluesabre> Hi Unit193, how goes?
<Unit193> As well as can be expected I guess.
<bluesabre> That's good :)
<Unit193> (Not really)  So how about you?  What time were you thinking for the meeting?
<bluesabre> Things are alright. Probably Sat/Sun somewhere between 6-8 pm
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-07
<nado_x> I have a question regarding the default themes that are included with Xubuntu.   What are the criteria for including an additional theme, IE. a hidpi variant?
<nado_x> or how I would one submit such a request
<brainwash> nado_x: you request things via launchpad or mailing list
<nado_x> ok, thanks :)
<nado_x> i'll take a look there
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-08
<DarkTrick> Hello, I'm searching core dumps from a user program.
<DarkTrick> I have climit -c unlimited, but there all files have only 0 bytes. Is there a trick?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-06-09
<oshanz> Hi, "Your processor needs to support PAE in order to run Xubuntu." this is from sys requirement page. does this apply to 64bit images?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-01
<jphilips> Unit193: when you pointed out goaccess the other day, were you going to install it on the servers?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
<Unit193> jphilips: No, just noting it exists.
<jphilips> Unit193: okay. who in the team should i suggest install it?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-02
<jphilips> a twitter user was asking 'I would suggest to remove the synaptics touchpad driver and let libinput take care of it' - https://twitter.com/aquasp1/status/1267561066336223232
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-03
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-stopwatch-plugin 0.4.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-stopwatch-plugin-0-4-0-released-tp59209.html (by Natanael Copa-5)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in sv @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/1d4386884139b7358624deed458650e8bd988912 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Translate /usr/bin/po/thunar-print.pot in sv @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/cae5677423924455dd674f21a5a66c4739167177 (by transifex-integration)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-04
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed cd-boot-images, to be used to make isos bootable. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=712f284cc82880e72f3a94d323c39850174fabc1 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<jphilips> i was editing the greybird theme to thicken the left, right and bottom borders to make it easier for resizing.
<jphilips> the team can try it out here - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v-GFbt3Fsan2euuAll8Z-N66iJJ-Y3B4/view?usp=sharing
<jphilips> bluesabre, pleia2, knome: ^^^
<jphilips> it uses the same thicker borders concept found in other bundled themes like default-hdpi
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-05
<jphilips> bluesabre: is the enabling of hibernation on xubuntu the same as ubuntu - https://askubuntu.com/questions/94754/how-to-enable-hibernation
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-06
<jphilips> bluesabre: congrats on the menulibre video :D
<jphilips> Unit193: can you redirect http://docs.xubuntu.com/ to the .org rather than landing on the apache page
<Unit193> Nope, that's Canonical.
<jphilips> how would one go about asking them to do this?
<jphilips> was curious why the paulseaudio app isn't found in settings manager
#xubuntu-devel 2020-06-07
<jphilips> our docs mention installing the xubuntu-restricted-extras package, but we don't have such a package in 20.04, though it is there in 18.04
<jphilips> bluesabre: ^^^
<jphilips> Unit193: ^^^
<Unit193> s/x//
<jphilips> yes i saw the ubuntu-restricted-extras and kubuntu and lubuntu still have their restricted-extras, but was wondering why the xubuntu package was removed
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-restricted-extras/66 - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-restricted-addons/24 the Lubuntu one is transitional too.
<Unit193> !info lubuntu-restricted-extras
<ubottu> lubuntu-restricted-extras (source: ubuntu-restricted-extras): Commonly used media codecs and fonts for Lubuntu (Transitional). In component multiverse, is optional. Version 67 (groovy), package size 1 kB, installed size 14 kB
<Unit193> There's no difference, why update the same thing in 3+ pleaces when you can do it once?  Means things don't get forgotten/neglected.
<jphilips> so will the xubuntu-restricted-addons package also be removed, as its also just pointing to the ubuntu one?
<jphilips> bluesabre: i think i found the reason for that catfish but i mentioned to you before https://gitlab.xfce.org/apps/catfish/-/issues/31
<ubot93> Issue 31 in apps/catfish "Search results not limited to just folder searched" [Opened]
<bluesabre> jphilips: please add any findings to the bug report :)
<Unit193> G'day.
<bluesabre> Hey there Unit193 
<bluesabre> How's it going?
<Unit193> Can't sleep.
<bluesabre> :(
<jphilips> bluesabre: not sure what you mean by findings
<bluesabre> jphilips: you said you think you found the reason for the catfish bug, add that info to the bug report :)
<jphilips> bluesabre: the reason is in the bug report. :D
<jphilips> search a path and if another path has the same base path in it, it shows results from that path as well
<bluesabre> oh, that wasn't clear from just looking at the description
<bluesabre> Added that note to the bug report
<jphilips> oh okay. thought the description was clear enough :D
<jphilips> bluesabre: reminder to send out for voting on telegram
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in pt_BR @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/a7f93acb778289db1c6cb62919087a692df6dd64 (by transifex-integration)
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-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Apply translations in pt_BR @ https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/d19172d99b1e0333c47d845b34e6b811b03c3e55 (by transifex-integration)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4ui 4.15.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4ui-4-15-3-released-tp59213.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
