#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-21
<HelloWorld10> hello, where can i download ubuntu-mobile?
<HelloWorld10> i meant the exact url...
<HelloWorld10> ouch, nobody is around.
<HelloWorld10> well, i should ask whether hp rx3417 is supported?
<dholbach> good morning
<inkynoob> good night!
<davmor2> What's going on with with the images?  The current image doesn't match it's own md5sum anyone any ideas?
<davmor2> plus on full kernel there is no ume-xephyr-start command :-/
<davmor2> davmor2@smegal:~$ md5sum menlow.mic.tar.bz2   634fc9008cb793ca4d18696f20eb1350  menlow.mic.tar.bz2  is what I get from the image and currents md5sum is d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e *- 
<lool> davmor2: A couple of days ago, there was an issue with some package which was completely empty; I think it was corwn-beach-config
<lool> davmor2: This should be fixed though
<lool> StevenK: It seems the dailies are borken says davmor2; could you look into this?
<davmor2> lool: this is on full kernel.  ume-xephyr-start command not found.
<lool> davmor2: You have a config package pulled in?
<lool> davmor2: Usually it's in ume-config-common
<davmor2> lool: no idea hangon
<lool> Which is pulled by ume-config-samsung-q1-ultra and ume-config-crown-beach for instance
<StevenK> If the md5sum doesn't match, the image probably failed to build.
<StevenK> It was probably due to pidgin-maemo not being installable which I fixed todayu
<davmor2> lool: I'm running menlow in full kernel mode as the crown-beach-kernel mode never works.  On Friday there were no icon and today it just doesn't start
<StevenK> s/todayu/today/
<davmor2> that would answer it then :)
<davmor2> StevenK: is there a new version then somewhere?
<StevenK> davmor2: Um, let me kick off a build.
<davmor2> StevenK: many thanks
<davmor2> Just out of curiosity should both of the targets run?
<pof> I got an HTC shift UMPC with ubuntu 8.04 installed
<pof> i'm interested in trying the mccaslin build
<pof> of ubuntu-mobile, should i use the usb image? 
<pof> damn i have just lost the ubuntu & vista installation :P
<pof> it automatically fdisk'ed my HD 
<pof> didnt allow me to choose in which partition to install
<inkynoob> The wiki says the next meeting is on April 17th, is there another meeting already planed? I'd like to attend if possible
<agoliveira> inkynoob: Yes, it's every thursday, same time.
<inkynoob> ok, thanks
<inuka_desk> ping lool
<lool> inuka_desk: pong
<inuka_desk> lool, As you noted I am having issues creating tar balls.... , did you see my e-mail?
<inuka_desk> lool, why doesnt debuild -S -sa allways seperate the debian directory into a diff file
<lool> inuka_desk: Sent you an email
<lool> inuka_desk: It needs the upstream tarball to do so
<lool> inuka_desk: If you run a regular debuild, you should see how it should be named for debuild (well dpkg-source really) to find it
<lool> inuka_desk: I've sent you detailed instructions on how to name tarballs manually or on using uupdate which should do everything for you in this case
<lool> inuka_desk: Let me know if these aren't clear enough! :)
<lool> inuka_desk: Or we can chat over the phone if you want
<inuka_desk> lool, thanks... no that was very clear thanks.
<lool> inuka_desk: Cool
<lool> inuka_desk: In the case of crown-beach-config, it should be easier than for the other ones
<lool> inuka_desk: Just make sure you check carefully the resulting .dsc and .deb you upload for the next updates; you can open the .dsc file and see whether it lists the .diff.gz for example
<lool> And you can "debdiff" the .dsc or .deb before and after your changes to make sure the packages aren't regressing
<inuka_desk> lool: thats a good point, thanks give me a little better understanding of what is going on
<lool> tremolux: OMG cheese 2.23.1
<lool> tremolux: Ah no "axel" filed it, sorry
<lool> tremolux: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/217637
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 217637 in cheese "cheese application "delete file" causes segmentation fault" [Undecided,New] 
<tremolux> lool: ah, these are moblin folks
<lool> Oh ok
<lool> My bad then
<tremolux> lool: it's funny, "assign to loic who is the owner of cheese."   :)
<lool> tremolux: Probably because I'm French
<tremolux> lool: haha
<lool> Hmm cheese crashes when you unplug the webcam below it
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-22
<horace_ubuntu> bspencer, ping
<bspencer> horaceli !  imagine finding you here
<bspencer> ok.  there were a few ideas for 8+sec mail
<bspencer> one was to use dpkg-divert
<bspencer> and run the cache updater and hten dpkg
<horaceli> there is no existed cache updater at present, and we need to create one, right?
<bspencer> and lool said something about triggers "soon"
<horaceli> I have read the mail loop, yes
<horaceli> he mentioned that
<horaceli> just I am thinking what do we need to cache
<bspencer> so those are the two options to get notified.   Then, correct, we need to define the cache and the cache updater
<bspencer> let's chat about that
<bspencer> - flat file with a list of apps, prog, icon
<bspencer>  - sqlite db -- overkill?
<bspencer>  - xml file
<horaceli> currently, gnome-menu read through *.menu file, which is XML formatted
<bspencer>  - binary (speedy, hard to debug)
<bspencer> horaceli: but slow, true?
<horaceli> right, 'cause it parsed every tag in XML
<bspencer> of course our cache could be a single file, read all in at once.  It won't be that big
<horaceli> and stored then and build up a huge tree.
<bspencer> even with 200 apps, should be <.5s 
<bspencer> I'm hoping for .5s
<horaceli> I have verified on C2D based computer,
<horaceli> building up applications list by gnome-menu interface takes 1.8s
<bspencer> C2D?
<horaceli> so I am not sure what we should cache for next time usage
<horaceli> Core 2 Duo
<bspencer> we should put:   Label, Icon path, Prog path+parms, X-osso.
<bspencer> ...but, what if user changes locale?
<bspencer> then we're hozed.
<horaceli> I am thinking whether or not we could simply parse XML formatted .menu file
<horaceli> and then read through <AppDir> & <DefaultAppDir> that are defined in .menu file
<bspencer> yes, ok.  I could be wrong.  For example, we have to know the category from the menu files.
<horaceli> yes
<horaceli> we can
<horaceli> sorry, I misunderstand your last sentence.
<bspencer> and also read gconf value each time on startup.
<bspencer> horaceli: so if we put all the info into a single file for all apps, one-line per app, we should see improvement.   But this is a read-only solution.  
<bspencer> we can't update very easily when a pkg changes.
<bspencer> without re-reading all the .desktop files again.
<bspencer> which adds 8sec to each pkg add/remove 
<bspencer> (although perhaps that is a rare event in UME land)
<bspencer> are we sure our 8sec isn't just bad coding?
<horaceli> bspencer, if we put all info into one single file.
<horaceli> it would make default .menu files and menu spec useless (I feel)
<bspencer> that's a long time to read 50 .desktop files.
<horaceli> bspencer, yes, I know. we suspsect it too, thnking of if it is caused by bad coding
<horaceli> I have inspect our loop several times
<horaceli> and moved out two general operations (reading strings and flags from gconf) out of the loop
<horaceli> and it could save 2s and I mentioned that in mail
<horaceli> I could ask Frank's help to help review the code
<horaceli> for double insurance.
<horaceli> but I did look into  gnome-menu code
<horaceli> yesterday
<bspencer> Q:  if someone adds a new pkg today in UME, will it show up in menu?
<bspencer> or do they have to restart X?
<horaceli> I have no answer to it at present.
<bspencer> what about changing locale?  If we put all info into a flat file and hte user changes locale, the strings won't change
<bspencer> Terminal|Application|uxterm -fa Monospace -fs 12|UTF-8|xterm|Application;Utility|org.moblin.xterm|GNOME;Mobile;|xterm
<bspencer> ...
<horaceli> bspencer, I am in #moblin too
<horaceli> talking about bug scrubs
<horaceli> now back
<bspencer> ah
<horaceli> btw, you have several bugs and I have accepted them
<bspencer> oh!  thx.
<dholbach> good morning
<davmor2> 20080421.1 image doesn't match the md5sum again
<lool> Hey bspencer 
<lool> bspencer: We have that urgent issue with xul 1.9 for which you received a couple of emails :)
<lool> bspencer: Do you think you could find someone to look into it today?
<persia> I've been browsing http://moblin.org/repos/releases/ and updated a couple packages in my PPA.  Are there any special procedures before pushing to the team PPA?
<agoliveira> persia: As long as you're in the team you should be able to dput it.
<persia> agoliveira: I can, but if there was a VCS for packaging in place, I'd want to update that as well, etc.
<agoliveira> persia: VCS?
<persia> Version Control System (likely bzr in this case)
<agoliveira> persia: Oh, I see. Not really. PPA will have your packages for testing and people with the power to upload to the repositories will do it if needed.
<agoliveira> persia: You know, all the MOTU, coredev stuff.
<persia> agoliveira: OK.  Just checking.  I'm not tempted to upload to the repos just now, as these are new upstreams, and likely don't match the specific criteria for the hardy release in a couple days :)  I'll push the packages to the team PPA then.  Thanks.
<agoliveira> persia: My pleasure
<ian_brasil> hey...anyone see this report about nokia sponsoring ubuntu on arm? http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html
<agoliveira> ian_brasil: Yep, we've being talking about it a few days ago. There was a rumor around for some time BTW.
<ian_brasil> putz...trust me to be the last one to know  :)
<dantalizing> hi folks. i installed hildon-desktop, but applets are not showing....what needs to happen for them to show?
<dantalizing> other than them being installed
<tremolux> lool: where was that RSS feed to track new releases at gnome?
<lool> tremolux: Yes
<lool> tremolux: http://download.gnome.org/LATEST.xml
<tremolux> lool: thx!
<lool> dantalizing: That's a known bug
<lool> dantalizing: Since we moved to xul 1.9
<lool> dantalizing: It's being worked on by bspencer, asac and StevenK 
<dantalizing> ah..thx lool
<lool> persia: Only hildon packages are in bzr AFAIK
<lool> persia: Concerning moblin modules, you can probably upload
<lool> persia: As long as they work :)
<PaowZ> hi there 
<PaowZ> anybody there ?
<lool> Nope
<PaowZ> cool :)
 * GrueMaster is only present in ghost form
<dantalizing> how do i get the application launcher shown here? http://www.moblin.org/toolkits/basicDevGuides/simpleApp/toolkits_DevGds_simpleApp_understandHildon.php
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-23
<lool> dantalizing: Not sure I understand your question
<lool> persia: Wow, does mobile-basic-flash work for you?
<lool> persia: It's broken for most of us with xul 1.9
<david88_lin> Â /msg NickServ IDENTIFY 123456
<david88_lin> Â /msg NickServ IDENTIFY
<lool> david88_lin: Hmm I'm afraid this went out to the public
<lool> david88_lin: You'd better change password now
<david88_lin> I am changed. Thanks.
<dholbach> good morning
<persia> ï»¿lool: It would be more accurate to say that I did not find any degradation with the updated ï»¿mobile-basic-flash, and that the changes seemed reasonable (and helpful) from a textual review.
<theseinfeld> Anybody knows why the ume-xephyr-start was removed from the ume-config-common package?
<theseinfeld> lool any idea why the ume-config-common doesn't include the ume-xephyr-start?
<phreekbird|work> so i just started reading about ume ... looks great, i am very impressed
<phreekbird|work> just wanted to show my appreciation and let everyone know that its a great looking product ... keep up the good work!
<theseinfeld> anybody here from the ubuntu-mobile team? davidm?
<theseinfeld> so after doing the apt-get full-upgrade the ume-xephyr-start is gone
<theseinfeld> i check the old backup to see that it was in the ume-config-common package and now that package doesn't have it
<theseinfeld> if i start manually the xephyr and the hildon-desktop, boing
<theseinfeld> core dump
<theseinfeld> great success
<theseinfeld> anybody knows what is going on?
<theseinfeld> agoliveira, any idea?
 * theseinfeld is sleeping...*snorrr* *snorrrrrr*
<agoliveira> theseinfeld: Sorry, no idea.
<theseinfeld> agoliveira, but you acknowledge that it is gone :) 
<theseinfeld> I am not crazy :)
<theseinfeld> right :)
<agoliveira> theseinfeld: I don't know. I'm working on an unrelated urgent work since yesterday evening and didn't run UME since.
<agoliveira> Let me turn on my Q1
<theseinfeld> hardy in 1 day
<agoliveira> Gah, sorry
<agoliveira> theseinfeld: I'm updating an image. Let's see what happens.
<theseinfeld> full-upgrade
<theseinfeld> agoliveira let me know
<agoliveira> theseinfeld: You're right, ume-xephyr-start was removed.
 * theseinfeld is not crazy then...
<theseinfeld> agoliveira, do you know why?
<theseinfeld> :D
<theseinfeld> or what is subsituting it?
<agoliveira> theseinfeld: No idea, sorry. Looks more like an error.
<theseinfeld> ok
<theseinfeld> I will check with the uploader
<theseinfeld> maintainer
<theseinfeld> thanks
<theseinfeld> then i fill a bug report :)
<agoliveira> Great
<lool> theseinfeld: Hey, I'm afraid we were sleeping in our timezone when you popped the issue
<lool> I think inuka might have broken it with the latest ume-config-common upload
<lool> I'll check with him
<theseinfeld> lool thanks
<theseinfeld> lool just to let you know :)
<theseinfeld> lool actually I am quite active in ume
<theseinfeld> lool i also applied for membership
<theseinfeld> lool but you denied it :)
 * theseinfeld sulks in the corner...
<persia> Which is broken again?  I'm also seeing strange startup behaviour, but it may be different.
<theseinfeld> ume-config-commong
<theseinfeld> at least
<theseinfeld> persia ...
<theseinfeld> moreover there is that xf86-video-psb
<theseinfeld> in the fsets
<theseinfeld> that is named differently in ubuntu
<theseinfeld> thank you moblin :)
<theseinfeld> so this is more like a MIC issue
<theseinfeld> :D
<persia> Ah yes.  The latest ume-config-common doesn't actually install the scripts.  Looks like a typo.  Testing a fix now...
<theseinfeld> good
 * theseinfeld likes persia...
<persia> theseinfeld: I should be thanking you.  I've been hunting for the last hour as to why my device has no window manager on boot.  The pointer is very much appreciated.
<theseinfeld> persia, thanks
<theseinfeld> i've been swearing here as well :)
<theseinfeld> persia have to go now
<theseinfeld> persia but I will be back tomorrow...
<theseinfeld> cheers
<lool> persia: Oh you're looking into ume-config-common?  thanks!
<lool> persia: Can you let inuka know if you fix it?
<persia> lool: Just fixed.  About to push to PPA.  Should I notify by email?
<lool> persia: inuka?  Yeah email is good enough
<lool> Or file a bug and assign to him
<lool> But I told him to debdiff his .debs before upload, grah
<persia> The upstream tarball is actually infected by the issue as well: everything is currently duplicated.  I'll catch inuka by mail to cover details.
<lool> duplicated?
<persia> $(DESTDIR) was missing /debian/, so the build put the target in $(CURDIR).  It looks like there was a test-run of the Makefile before tar creation, so the "build" results are in the tarball.
<persia> Anyway, fixed version in the PPA: updated images should boot to hildon, rather than to default X (or at least it does so on my device).
<lool> persia: THanks
<agoliveira> persia: I would catch inuka by the throat instead of by email! :)
 * persia is on the wrong side of the world for that :)
<agoliveira> persia: Yeah but one can dream, right? :)
<Xiliath> so anybody been able to boot ume yet?
<agoliveira> Xiliath: UME boots and runs, what's your problem?
<Xiliath> well i downloaded it, made install on usb flash disc using moblin image creator, but i couldn't do any thing
<Xiliath> so i downloaded the newest release version, of 8.04 UME and i kept getting an error for my broadcom chip saying the firmware wasn't installed
<Xiliath> so i fixed that problem, but with the new version it finishes loading, and says Ubutnu UME tty1
<Xiliath> Login:
<Xiliath> and the screen just flashes
<Xiliath> i tried using xypher but all i get is a gray screen when i launch it, and i can't load UME from there
<Xiliath> i tried live and live rw boots on flash discs
<persia> Xiliath: Gray screen?  Are you using the PPA repository?  You might need to wait for a new ume-config-common to build.
<Xiliath> you done a boot from flash?
<Xiliat1> maybe i'll have better luck after they release 8.04 and officially realease UME
<lool> Xiliat1: What hardware are you running on?
<lool> Xiliat1: The builds we publish are aimed at specific hardware; it needs a lot of tweaking to run on other hardware
<agoliveira> Xiliat1, Xiliath: and in case you didn't, I suggest you read the FAQ here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
<Xiliat1> yeah i know
<Xiliat1> i tweaked the target rootfs so that my hardware would be better supported, i installed the 8.04 beta just so i could easily combine parts of my install with the target rootfs to make it all easier
<Xiliat1> i've read all the faqs and the wiki many times
<Xiliat1> i was amazed to find out a month or so ago about UME and have dove into working on it
<Xiliat1> agoliveira, you a developer for ubuntu mobile?
<agoliveira> Xiliat1: Yes, I am.
<Xiliat1> is there a plan to port UME to ARM?
<Xiliat1> i know that 6.04 has been and 7.04 is being ported by a 3rd party
<agoliveira> Xiliat1: There's the idea, but nothing planned. Nokia already ported a form of Ubuntu to ARM so you may want to take a look.
<agoliveira> Xiliat1: It's not hard to port UME to ARM, we just don't have the manpower to do it right now.
<Xiliat1> yeah, i read about them doing it, for the N770 and 800
<prpplague> if someone is interested in port ume to arm, tincantools would be happy to donate either a hammer kit or nail board
<Xiliat1> what was the software nokia said they used to port most of ubuntu over to arm?
<prpplague> davidm already has a nail board, but i'm not sure what he's planning to do with it
<agoliveira> prpplague: This is something I want to do as a personal pet project, just don't have the time to do it now.
<prpplague> agoliveira: we've alotted a few boards for porting projects so if someone is serious about doing the work we can donate a board
<lool> prpplague: It looks a bit slow from my reading
<agoliveira> prpplague: I would love to get one but unfortunately, right now, I can't promisse anything.
<lool> 200 MHz is just plain slower than stuff you can find on the market; like Thecus
<lool> 32 MB of SDRAM, we're not getting anywhere with that either  :-/
 * agoliveira didn't look at the hardware
<prpplague> lool: probably compared to what most x86 folks think of clock cycles, yea, but performance wise it fits for most projects
<prpplague> lool: i'm not familiar with Thecus, got a url?
<lool> prpplague: We're just super far away from that envelope
<agoliveira> lool: a 200Mh ARM will do I suppose. The RAM is indeed low.
<lool> And to build something like Ubuntu, you got to plan some >= 512 MB RAM
<lool> agoliveira: It "will do", you would need 50 of them though
<lool> Ah I'm exagerrating, at least 20 I'd say
<prpplague> lool / agoliveira  yea its a different realm, "ram is indeed low", most of our customers are amazed at the size of the ram, hehe
<agoliveira> lool: Don't be pushy :)
<lool> prpplague: Sure http://www.cyrius.com/debian/iop/n2100/index.html
 * prpplague looks
<lool> You can replace the RAM up to 512 MB RAM
<lool> But that's probably too low for some corner packages
 * agoliveira will now will retreat from the fun and return to those damn licenses
<prpplague> interesting
<prpplague> different ballpark indeed
<lool> It's closer to a real distribution than to an embedded one
<prpplague> s/real/desktop
<lool> If you like
<prpplague> lool: so for you, something around 600MHz with 256MB sdram and 128MB flash would be more attractive?
<prpplague> lool: and i assume you'd be doing more software dev than hardware dev
<lool> prpplague: flash would still be a bit low to run UME; it's clearly not enough to build Ubuntu for ARM though
<prpplague> lool:  we thats just base flash, you can always add with things like sd cards
<lool> prpplague: The current vague goals are 192 MB RAM, 500 MB storage
<prpplague> pretty hefty
<lool> prpplague: Depends on the usage; to actually build the distro, we need quite a lot of space, to run UME we would need some hundreds MB
<lool> prpplague: That's just the base goal, but then some spins have higher constraints
<lool> For storage
<lool> Well stronger constraints I mean
<lool> Like 200 MB
<lool> But you can't really reduce the RAM consumption right now when you want user apps to be able to eat some RAM
<Xiliat1> 200mb is big for an embedded device
<prpplague> indeed
<lool> Well it's an embedded device where you run Firefox
<lool> Or rather midbrowser in our case
<lool> And you still have to allow people to run $custom_app which eats some RAM
<Xiliat1> i had the mid browser working on ubuntu 7.10, i actually liked the look and feel better than firefox 3
<lool> The main targets for UME are MIDs, not phones etc.
<Xiliat1> yeah i know though some of the mids do have phone capabilities
<lool> Sure, what I mean is that the hardware expectations are not the one of typical phones
<Xiliat1> i can't seem to get mid browser to run on 8.04
<lool> (Where you typically find some MB of RAM, some MB of flash)
<Xiliat1> yeah
<lool> That said I find the tincantools hardware cute
<lool> It's probably not suited for running UME in its current form or building Ubuntu for ARM, but it's nice hardware nevertheless
<prpplague> lool: thanks we have a whole line in waiting to be released, including 400 and 600 mhz devices
<Xiliat1> is that those in the list of devices in development, or a whole new set of devices for us to drool over?
<prpplague> Xiliat1: whole new set
<prpplague> Xiliat1: most of them are actually complete, just waiting to go into production
<Xiliat1> god, that makes me want to badger you with 50 questions, lol
<prpplague> Xiliat1: you are welcome to join #edev and ask, there are a number of tincantools product users there
<Xiliat1> yeah, but most my questions would be like, what, when, how much, ect...
<prpplague> hehe, well most of them are on hold untill we see how much demand there is for these types of products
<Xiliat1> well, you need to generate demand
<prpplague> Xiliat1: yea, seeing how much there is starting with the hammer
<prpplague> Xiliat1: http://movial.elinux.org/JackHammer_Board , http://movial.elinux.org/SledgeHammer_Board
<prpplague> Xiliat1: 600Mhz and 400Mhz respectively
<Xiliat1> though these are samsung processors though no?
<prpplague> yea
<Xiliat1> ok, i'm confused then, UME is not compiled for ARM though...
<prpplague> Xiliat1:as i understand it right now, that is correct
<Xiliat1> so are you talking about running UME on these boards?
<prpplague> we hope so in the future
<prpplague> Xiliat1: right now for GUI based stuff we are using familiar and angstrom distros
<prpplague> Xiliat1: but the gentoo guys are also working on it too
<pk> hello i'm newbie
<landley> pk: hello.
<pk> hello
<pk> /ms
<landley> pk: so what kind of stuff would you like to know?
<landley> pk: I'm not typing that. :)
<pavolklacansky> i want testing on desktop ubuntu mobile
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-24
<bspencer_> persia, ping
<persia> bspencer_: pong
<bspencer_> Emmet -- howdy.  Have we met?
<persia> In person? I doubt it.
<bspencer> I see you recently updated mobile-basic-flash in the hardy PPA
<bspencer> when I make an image it comes up all white.  I wonder if you tried it before or after pushing it
<bspencer> I was thinking ubuntu guys were going to wait until it was stable before pulling it over
<persia> bspencer: Both.  The image worked for me (although icon display is still wonky for xul reasons)
<bspencer> it also increases the boot time by 8sec.
<bspencer> ah -- is it due to xul 1.9 issue?
<bspencer> I also thought that was on hold until the kinks were worked out.  
<bspencer> anyhow -- I'll try to fix it soon
<persia> Ah.  In that case, it might just be that I didn't get the word on it being on hold.  I'm not sure about the delay, but would happily pull again to resolve the boot time issue.
<bspencer> asac, 
<persia> I'm basing my blame on xul for the lack of icons from http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/04/19/%23ubuntu-mobile.html, although I may be mistaken.
<bspencer> hadn't seen that.  ok.  I'll fix it.
<persia> bspencer: For me, that only makes the icons not appear.  I'm not getting an all-white screen, and wondering what is causing that for you.
<bspencer> persia, I used the menlow-lpia-hardy-ppa   platform.
<persia> Hmm.  I'm using mccaslin-lpia-hardy-ppa.
<dholbach> good morning
<inkynoob> 'morning
<dholbach> hi inkynoob
<inkynoob> Where are you at that it's morning there? 
<Xiliath> does UME support mouse input?
<jouston> Xiliath: Yes.
<inkynoo1> Ubuntu Hardy comes out today, will UME development continue in the Hardy repositories, or will it move into Ibex?
<dns53> the last update in normal hardy is nice, it is a useable desktop for my eeepc now
 * landley waves at davidm.
<landley> There's a meeting thingy today?
<davidm> landley, yes there will be an open meeting today
 * landley is curious.  Will try to show up.
<davidm> landley, About 45 minutes, some boring actually but anyone can attend.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/ and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080424
<bspencer> kyleN_: what's the page to your i18n again?
<bspencer> and if someone could help me navigate the mobile and embedded pgae, I get confused:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/ReportingPage
<bspencer> where on there does it point to the pages about i18n, the weekly meeting minutes, etc.?
<bspencer> ah, that's an odd page.  here's the right page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
<bspencer> my bad.
<kyleN_> bspencer: there are two
<bspencer> got em
<bspencer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nMobileCode
<bspencer> is the one I need to update I believe
<kyleN_> ok
<bspencer> kyleN_: actually, where do you want the list of moblin apps i18n status?
<kyleN_> bspencer: I think another sibling page makes sense
<bspencer> where are the weekly meeting minutes posted?
<kyleN_> i have to check my email every week to find it
<kyleN_> did you get one from david m this week?
<bspencer> davidm... searching
<bspencer> yes
<bspencer> was looking for loic
<davidm> Loic is at lunch will be here in a couple of minutes
<landley> Wow, ubuntu.com is down.
<landley> And back up.  Weird.
<agoliveira> landley: Everything related to ubuntu is really slow today due the release.
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 18:01. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> Hi folks!
<lool> Hope you had a nice week
 * agoliveira waves all
 * lool tries to load the wiki page, which takes some time...
<lool> So, we'll start with the action items from last week
<lool> [topic] (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF
<MootBot> New Topic:  (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF 
<lool> bspencer: heya; how has it been going on that front?
<bspencer> howdy
<bspencer> working on it presently
<bspencer> I thought I would add these to an existing page
<bspencer> or just append them to the minutes
<bspencer> unless there's a better place
<lool> bspencer: I think you should add them to a wiki page, yes
<lool> One of the i18n ones for instance or a new one
<bspencer> yes, a new page?
<lool> I don't think that's important; as long as one can find it if one searches for i18n or something
<bspencer> sure.  I'll just link off of one of Kyle's
<bspencer> so the status is not done.   But doing...
<lool> Hmm ok
<lool> This sounds quite bad to manage providing actual translations for the UME Core release or for customer derivatives
<lool> We're like at one month from our target dates and it requires Launchpad massaging to do the stuff afterwards
<lool> So it's quite urgent
<lool> [action] (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF [cted]
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (bspencer) document status of i18n of moblin modules on Ubuntu wiki; needs discussion with asac and cwong for FF [cted] 
<bspencer> urgent that the apps have i18n support, true?
<bspencer> moderately urgent that the list is not posted
<lool> bspencer: Well the later the apps have i18n support, the less time there is to do and test the translations
<lool> bspencer: That's true
<bspencer> there's really only two that are pending:  marquee and mobile-basic-flash
<lool> [topic] (GrueMaster) update #215242 to request enabling of alsa in helix builds (or a dependency on oss support in alsa)
<MootBot> New Topic:  (GrueMaster) update #215242 to request enabling of alsa in helix builds (or a dependency on oss support in alsa) 
<lool> bspencer: Ok; then that's good; please document them in the wiki
<lool> bspencer: Just wanted to let you know that i18n is urgent
<lool> And not documentation of it, I agree
<lool> GrueMaster: Hey, so how did this went?
<lool> Is GrueMaster around?
<lool> Someone physically near GrueMaster could poke him?
 * agoliveira looks around...
<GrueMaster> Oops, sorry, I'm back
<lool> No problem
<lool> GrueMaster: So we were checking for updates on that bug work we discussed last week
<GrueMaster> I've been tied up with video driver drops.
<lool> So no progress on this one?
<GrueMaster> I'm not really sure what to check for that may have gotten dropped, but it looks like alsa-utils was dropped (which would cause this).
<lool> This is the next topic
<lool> This topic/action was about asking for the helix build to enable alsa because it's 2008 and we want to use ALSA
<StevenK> Which has been fixed.
<GrueMaster> Well, they tie together then.
<lool> StevenK: So this is fixed in helix?
<StevenK> No.
<lool> StevenK: Then wait for the next topic :)
<StevenK> ubuntu-mobile now seeds alsa-utils directly.
<lool> StevenK: I've seen the change and I've added alsa-base too
<lool> StevenK: And added the same comments as for desktop-common
<lool> But this is the next topic
<GrueMaster> I don't recall my bug being specific to Helix, just used Helix as a reference.
<lool> So, it remains to be done to build helix against alsa, does everybody agree?
<StevenK> Er, really?
<lool> GrueMaster: Well what we discussed last week was that they are two bugs and that one is to please build helix against alsa and the other is to please pull alsa as it helps oss apps
<davidm> We can't build it, perhaps Intel can
<GrueMaster> I can't build helix either.
<lool> GrueMaster: So who builds the helix for which you reported it was using alsa?
<StevenK> Which bit of helix wants to be built against alsa?
<lool> err OSS
<lool> instead of alsa
<mawhalen> Is this a bug logged into the helixcommunity?
<lool> GrueMaster: You said helix wasn't working because it was trying to use oss and we should be pulling alsa to make this work; I replied that we should perhaps pull alsa (next topic) but that helix had to be built with alsa support
<lool> mawhalen: No, in Launchpad
<mawhalen> sorry - just joining, what's the number?
<lool> Well the current bug doesn't state this
<StevenK> Perhaps Helix is linked with alsa and it didn't work because it wasn't installed?
<lool> the topic is #
<lool> the topic is (GrueMaster) update #215242 to request enabling of alsa in helix builds (or a dependency on oss support in alsa)
<lool> But #215242 currently requests addition of alsa compat, not building helix with alsa support
<lool> Which is why we set an action item to change it in this way last week
<GrueMaster> I discussed that here with my boss, and he agreed that it didn't make sence to split the bug up.  I would end up tracking every app not compiled against alsa.
<GrueMaster> The way it reads is fine, it's been addressed in the next topic, it's done.
<lool> Uh I don't want to ship apps using OSS if they can use ALSA, no
<GrueMaster> I don't have time to hunt down each app that doesn't use alsa.
<persia> Still good to report all those discovered, and find the remainders over time.
<lool> We're not asking you to go hunt them down, you mentionned alsa support wasn't enabled in helix and I asked you to please report it
<GrueMaster> Here's the text of the bug:  Sometime between 20080228 and 20080402, alsa-base package was no longer installed. This package contains a modprobe.d configuration file that auto-installs oss emulation drivers, along with power management support for alsa. The oss emulation is needed by some applications, including helix/realplayer for audio support.
<lool> Yes, that's one issue, I agree; it's the next topic which we already covered here in fact, and it has bene addressed and is closed
<lool> But this led us to discover another issue since you claimed helix had alsa support which wasn't turned on
<lool> And this ought to be fixed too
<GrueMaster> I never said helix had alsa support.
<GrueMaster> As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure that Flash has alsa support.
<agoliveira> GrueMaster: AFAIK, flash does
<tonyespy> helix supports alsa, but it has to be turned on in the build
<GrueMaster> Well, my point was to justify the need for oss emulation, not fix non-alsa applications.
<lool> GrueMaster: You said two weeks ago:
<lool> [18:24:55] <GrueMaster> Well, in my opinion, it should be built with alsa support. alsa provides audio duplexing, which oss did not.
<lool> See http://blackbird.kaarsemaker.net/mootbot/meeting/ubuntu-mobile.log.20080410_1801.html#11
<GrueMaster> True, but like I also said, I don't have time to track every app that doesn't support alsa.
<GrueMaster> And my time here is limited.
<lool> So we're going in loop here; you discovered a bug (helix is not built with alsa support) but you are not interested in reporting it because there is a workaround and you don't want to spend any more time on it, correct?
<GrueMaster> no.  I found a bug (some apps that need oss support aren't getting it due to missing alsa-base), and that has been fixed.
<GrueMaster> Again, I used the build of helix I had as an example.  For all I know, it works properly now.
<lool> So what exactly did you intend to say when you wrote "it should be built with alsa support."?
<landley> lool: is there any way to get the logs like that linked from the meeting page on the wiki?
<landley> The minutes it does link to are very terse, no actual discussion.
<lool> landley: They should be; please check with davidm after the meeting why not; I think he copies them to another place
<GrueMaster> AFAIR, it was mentioned that it could be built with alsa support, hence my comment.
<lool> landley: ?
<landley> The ones he puts up look like http://people.ubuntu.com/~davidm/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20080410_1801.html
<lool> So I don't see any useful discussion on this topic anymore and I'll close it and move on to the next topic which should be covered pretty fast
<lool> landley: Let us discuss this after the meeting or at the end in a new topic
<landley> ok
<lool> [topic] (GrueMaster) file new bug requesting addition of alsa-base to the seeds with the rationale of the power management features it provides
<MootBot> New Topic:  (GrueMaster) file new bug requesting addition of alsa-base to the seeds with the rationale of the power management features it provides 
<lool> So GrueMaster didn't particularly file a new bug as covered in the previous discussion
<GrueMaster> At any rater, that was what, 2 weeks ago?  The bug I reported has been fixed.  I haven't had time to file a bug against helix needing alsa support, I'm busy filing internal bugs against it here.
<lool> However StevenK added alsa-utils and I added alsa-base after a discussion with ChickenCutlass 
<lool> With the same rationale/comments as for the desktop-common seed
<lool> I'll mark GrueMaster's original bug as fix committed after the meeting
<lool> Moving on to the next topic
<GrueMaster> THANKS!
<lool> [topic] (ToddBrandt and lool) workshop on solving dependency issues in ppa
<MootBot> New Topic:  (ToddBrandt and lool) workshop on solving dependency issues in ppa 
<ToddBrandt> lool: yea sorry I didn't get back to you on that, I've had some fires to fight
<lool> ToddBrandt: So I mailed you to ask about your availabilities, but perhaps my written explanations were enough?
<ToddBrandt> lool: actually yea, email should be fine
<lool> If my email is a good enough cheat sheet, then let's close this
<lool> Ok; we're done with last weeks items
<lool> I'm refreshing the wiki page, but I don't see any current item for this week
<lool> Does anyone have any item to discuss today which is or isn't in the wiki page?
<lool> I don't see any on a fresh reload
<lool> landley: So let's discuss that log thing
<lool> [topic] IRC meetings logs
<MootBot> New Topic:  IRC meetings logs 
<agoliveira> Maybe poke Intel about UDS, again? ;)
<lool> landley: In the past, the wiki pages would link to the mootbot logs directly (like I didÃ 
 * agoliveira ducks
<lool> But this was unreliable
<lool> landley: So davidm now copies them over to his people.ubuntu.com pages and links to that
<davidm> There are two pages there for each meeting
<lool> landley: If you find that he doesn't copy in a suitable way, could you drop him an email explaining what's missing?
<bspencer> are you talking about this meeting?
<lool> Yes
<bspencer> I added a link from the main page too
<davidm> The upper level summery page and a drill down page that contains the complete IRC log
<bspencer> I always have a problem finding the mintues
<lool> davidm: Could both pages be linked from the wiki pages?
<bspencer> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/  -- now has a "Weekly meeting minutes" link.
<davidm> bspencer, I edit every meeting wiki page by the next week and add a link to that weeks logs, it's at the bottom of the page
<landley> lool: I'll take it up with david offline.
<persia> davidm: There seems to be a missing 's' in the mootbot links: specifically ".../meeting/..." vs ".../meetings/..."
<davidm> With the release of Hardy it's slow
<lool> persia: Confirmed
<davidm> Whoops, that was a typo, I'll edit the messed up pages again.
<lool> davidm: http://people.ubuntu.com/~davidm/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20080417_1800.html for example, if you click on the left on any link, it's broken
<lool> Ok, topic done?
<lool> [topic] Intel UDS attendance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Intel UDS attendance 
<davidm> Give me an action for to fix links
<lool> Any news here?
<bspencer> lool:  Q about xul 1.9 (after current topic)
<lool> [action] (davidm) fix links in IRC logs
<MootBot> ACTION received:  (davidm) fix links in IRC logs 
<lool> bspencer: ack
<lool> So did anyone from Intel confirmed coming?
<lool> It's in less than a month now :)
<bspencer> for UDS, I have no update.  Waiting for direction from above.  I would /love/ to come
<lool> I would love that you come too
<davidm> I have a confirmation that John Cheery will attend.
<bspencer> xoxo
<bspencer> Cherry
<davidm> s/Cheery/Cherry
<agoliveira> Is he a cheery chery? 
<davidm> I am just full of typo's today
<bspencer> he's a happy guy, to be certain
<agoliveira> :-D
<lool> Ok; well please keep us up-to-date on attendance
<lool> agoliveira: Let's revisit next week etc.
<bspencer> topic #2 (after xul) :  netbook / eeePC for MIC
<lool> [topic] mobile-basic-flash XUL 1.9 port
<MootBot> New Topic:  mobile-basic-flash XUL 1.9 port 
<agoliveira> lool: Fine. I love poke Intel people ;)
<bspencer> lool: what is the intention for moving to 1.9?
<bspencer> is that something you will do for UME release?
<agoliveira> lool: But you'll have to poke them or me, I'll be on holiday.
<bspencer> I see 1.8 in hardy now
<lool> bspencer: xul 1.9 and xul are very similar code bases, but we didn't want to maintain both for the hardy timeframe
<lool> (security etc.)
<lool> It's a huge amount of duplicated work
<bspencer> right.  makes sense
<lool> So all xul apps (in main) were built against xul 1.9
<lool> To have mobile-basic-flash in main, we need it to be built with xul 1.9
<bspencer> hm.  I updated to hardy and found xuldev 1.8 ?
<lool> Hence the patch you saw, but it broke the display completely
<lool> So we reverted
<lool> bspencer: In universe
<lool> libxul-dev | 1.8.1.13+nobinonly-0ubuntu1 | hardy/universe | all
<lool> xulrunner-1.9-dev | 1.9~b5+nobinonly-0ubuntu3 |         hardy | amd64, i386
<bspencer> you reverted xul because of m-b-f ?
<bspencer> ah
<lool> No, we reverted the port because of m-b-f
<bspencer> whew
<lool> So m-b-f still uses 1.8 right now, and should move to 1.9 ASAP
<lool> But it can't enter main
<bspencer> ok.  sure.
<lool> Which is the place where it's security supported and ends up in language packs by default
<lool> So this "needs more work" and is desirable
<lool> It was critical
<bspencer> got it.   We'll work on it
<lool> [topic] netbook / eeePC for MIC
<MootBot> New Topic:  netbook / eeePC for MIC 
<lool> bspencer: ^
<bspencer> yeah, a growing number of people asking if they can build eee images
<bspencer> I think it would be cool, though needs some planning to do it
<agoliveira> bspencer: The UDS is a great place for that, you know? ;)
<GrueMaster> the McCaslin image "should" work.  It's the same chipset and video.
<lool> Yeah, there are these people asking for ARM images too, quite many of them
<lool> We should do something for all these folks
<bspencer> hm, I thought Pentium M != mccaslin.  Shows what I know.
 * agoliveira looks for stones coming from western USA direction...
<persia> To get images for other mccaslin devices, it's mostly a matter of adjusting defaults from the q1u settings currently in place.
 * bspencer has seen that acronym somewhere before, but can't recall where.
<lool> We had some conversations around here in the Lexington office and I think we're losing a huge amount of resources (machine and human) to build x flavors of x platforms with x fsets
<bspencer> well, perhaps we should create a dup of McCaslin platform and call it "eeePC" for those interested
<lool> Instead, I think we could have a big generic flavor and do the stripped down builds less regularly
<GrueMaster> bspencer:  Eee uses Celeron M.  Same as Pentium M w/o cache.
<lool> This flavor could work slightly more slowly, and detect stuff on boot, like some sort of live CD
 * persia likes that idea: makes support for new devices easy
<bspencer> lool: and auto-detect kernel configs?  
<lool> So I'm happy if some people work on this; I'd like to put some time into it, but it's not top priority evidently
<bspencer> different platforms require different kernels, true?
<GrueMaster> What's to detect?  It has a 915M video chipset.  Only thing "radically" different is no touch screen.
<lool> bspencer: We have a generic kernel for all Ubuntu PCs
<lool> bspencer: This should be possible for MIDs too
<GrueMaster> All x86 kernels should run on the latest x86 procs.
<lool> GrueMaster: The video config in xorg has to be detected
<lool> It currently doesn't work in vmware, qemu etc. or on an eeepc or other mids
<persia> Detection targets: available devices, input info, X config, keymap, etc.
<lool> What persia said :)
<GrueMaster> why?  Q1U and Eee PC have the same driver.
<bspencer> GrueMaster: I think they are talking in general about MIC
<bspencer> and why we have multiple platforms at all.
<lool> There are also touchpad settings in the xorg.conf
<persia> GrueMaster: Same driver, but different configurations.  I use a SR8, which is much more similar to a Q1U than an Eee, but there are still things odd about it from the Q1U images.
<lool> bspencer: Also
<lool> bspencer: Yes
<GrueMaster> ah
<lool> So this is all an interesting topic; I would be happy if we could provide this to the community
<bspencer> I think we should 
<lool> I'm not tempted to [action] any of it though, unless someone from the community wants to take it
 * agoliveira looks at his dismantled eeePC motherboard wating for a soldering job.
 * landley is interested in booting an ubuntu-mobile image under qemu.
<bspencer> and make it clear that they can -- although we will get inundated with "help" 
<lool> But please work on this as your priorities permit and report back here or on the mailing list
<lool> It would help a huge amount of people
<landley> If there are existing instructions on how to do that, I missed them.
<GrueMaster> Getting the image to boot under quemu, Virtual Box, etc, would be a big bonus for development.
<lool> landley: I think we have been happy to help people on the mailing list or on IRC here to make progress on this
<lool> But the ideas of running on eeepc or in virtual envs has been around for months
<davidm> landley, very happy to help on mailing lists and IRC, though right now mailing list is better.
<lool> Okay; topic done?
<lool> Any other topic?
<landley> davidm: I'll ask on the list then.
<lool> Cool, we're still in the < 1 hour envelope
<davidm> landley, great
<lool> So thanks everybody for participating, have fun
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:49.
<bspencer> wiki.ubuntu.com is so slow
<StevenK> bspencer: It's release day
<bspencer> btw, launchpad is painfully slow.  I'm not a cursing man, but if I were, using launchpad would give me much practice.
<agoliveira> bspencer: Everything that's related to ubuntu is slow today due the release
<inuka_desk> ping lool
<bspencer> agoliveira: ah.
<persia> It will likely stay slow through the weekend, and be back to normal on Monday or so.
<agoliveira> bspencer: The local mirror here, which is the state's capital and has a quite hefty pipe is being hammered down very hard. I can't gewt more than 20K/s from it.
<agoliveira> persia: Indeed
<davidm> landley, the URL links in the log have been fixed
<lool> inuka_desk: pong
<lool> inuka_desk: Make sure you put my name in front of your pings like "lool: foobar", and try to provide a question with the ping to allow me the grace to go back to you with an answer
<lool> inuka_desk: Thanks :)
<inuka_desk> lool: for the mailing list...  how about moblin-announce@moblin.org?
<lool> inuka_desk: I would suggest to keep that name for important announcements like 'Moblin 2.0 development begins', and use a more classical name
<lool> Like ftp-release@ or releases@ or ftp-release-list@ or taballs@ or moblin-tarballs@
<inuka_desk> lool: what would you sugest?
<landley> davidm: thanks.
<lool> GNOME To: FTP Releases <ftp-release-list@gnome.org>
 * landley has much backscroll reading to do.
<lool> FreeDesktop To: ftp-release@lists.freedesktop.org
<lool> Etc
<inuka_desk> lool: thanks just wanted to make sure it was consistant with standard open source projects
<landley> What _is_ the relationship between moblin and ubuntu mobile?
 * landley can't keep all the distros straight.
<landley> Openmoko, buildroot, gentoo embedded...
<lool> inuka_desk: There's no strong standard for ftp release lists, but announce is usually very low traffic huge announcements
<lool> landley: At least one side of moblin is to provide upstream software
<lool> While UME is about distributing stuff
<landley> Such as?
<lool> moblin-image-creator, moblin-media, midbrowser
<landley> upstream software such as?
<landley> ok
<lool> inuka_desk: mobile-basic-flash was removed from the PPA this morning because we had to output the build and this was masking the working version from hardy (the version in ppa didn't work I guess because of xul 1.9)
<StevenK> lool: No, that isn't it.
<lool> StevenK: Whatever it is, tell inuka_desk so that he knows please
<StevenK> Well, I removed 0.43 because it didn't have icons for Media, Photos and did wierd things with the applets
<StevenK> 0.44 got in the way
<lool> inuka_desk: ^
<lool> inuka_desk: We'll revisit this after today's beta release
<inuka_desk> lool: what package is this?
<inuka_desk> lool: moblie-basic-flash
<lool> Yes
<inuka_desk> lool: does bob know this as well. He is the one who wanted me to update
<StevenK> inuka_desk: moblin-media doesn't run
<StevenK>   File "/usr/share/moblin-media/thumbnail_creator.py", line 90, in _writeFile
<StevenK>     outfile = open(constant.BAD_THUMBNAIL_FILE, 'w')
<StevenK> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/root/.moblin-media/thumbnails/bad_thumbnails.txt'
<StevenK> If I make that directory, then I get:
<lool> inuka_desk: About the removal?  I don't think so; please tell him, but I've been in touch with Bob about the xul 1.9 issue, perhaps he meant that
<StevenK>     self.ltgray = self.area.get_colormap().alloc_color(COLOR_LTGRAY)
<StevenK> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'alloc_color'
<inuka_desk> ping, bspencer 
<bspencer> inuka_desk: 
<inuka_desk> bpsencer^ were you aware?
<bspencer> inuka_desk: 0.44 failed to build for lpia -- I assumed 0.43 was still in PPA.  I'm in a mtg, but will try to resolve this today
<StevenK> No, 0.43 was removed by me
<bspencer> StevenK:  ok.  So we have 0.34 now?
<inuka_desk> bspencer: oh ok
<StevenK> 0.34 that calls itself 0.36, yes
<bspencer> 0.36... got it
<StevenK> But it's 0.34, yeah :-)
<bspencer> oh.  :)
<bspencer> ok.  I'll figure out why 0.44 failed to build.
<bspencer> inuka_desk: did you notice that horace added dependencies?
<bspencer> inuka_desk: for xml parsing
<StevenK> inuka_desk: Any idea about moblin-media?
<bspencer> inuka_desk:  did you do the packaging?  How did you determine what the packaging should look like?
<inuka_desk> StevenK: I am not sure let me take a look
<bspencer> inuka_desk: StevenK   HappyCamp recentlhy updated moblin-media.  
<bspencer> HappyCamp_ubuntu:  HappyCamp   could you be the cause of ^^  ?
<StevenK> bspencer: In the PPA?
<inuka_desk> bspencer: Ahh it uses the updated packaging that could possibly the issue.
<bspencer> inuka_desk:  we added a new dependency between 0.43 and 0.44 for xml.  You'll have to look in configure.ac for details
<persia> inuka_desk: You can grab a 0.43 with the FTBFS fix from https://launchpad.net/~persia/+archive for your next 0.44 (or higher).
<jah_dread> What kind of products is UbuntuMobile intended for? Is it more like hanheld "computers" or ordinary mobilephones?
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> StevenK: moblin-media is in a state of flux right now
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> The gaston branch is relatively stable
<lool> persia: Or the superseded upload from the ppa directly, no?
<lool> Isn't the gaston branch only for packaging?
<persia> lool: I thought that was deleted
<StevenK> HappyCamp_ubuntu: The gaston branch isn't in the PPA, inuka_desk uploaded 0.51
<lool> persia: I thought so too until this morning :)
 * persia goes to bed to avoid more lapses of judgement
<lool> persia: You can use the "superseded" drown down near "search"
<inuka_desk> HappyCamp: what version do you want in the PPA
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> Well then it is in a state of flux right now.
<inuka_desk> bspencer: thanks I will update...
<lool> persia: *drop down
<lool> I'm drown down
<inuka_desk> HappyCamp_ubuntu: so do you want to leave it broken
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> At the moment yes
<inuka_desk> HappyCamp_ubuntu: in the PPA, StevenK: FYI
<agoliveira> jah_dread: It's for MIDs. Please check the FAQ.
<davidm> HappyCamp, why is a broken package in the PPA?
<davidm> HappyCamp_ubuntu, , why is a broken package in the PPA?
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> Because it is
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> First I heard it was broken
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> inuka_desk: ping, can you put latest moblin-media into ppa?
<bspencer> HappyCamp_ubuntu: have you built a hardy based image and tried the latest moblin-media?
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> bspencer: why?
<bspencer> so you don't push another broken moblin-media 
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> Nope
<bspencer> I recommend it :)
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> I tested it on my system and it works.  I feel good.
<inuka_desk> HappyCamp_ubuntu: If you have permissions you can use the instructions I e-mailed yesterday. 
<HappyCamp_ubuntu> inuka_desk: I don't have permissions
<inuka_desk> HappyCamp_ubuntu: Is there a release tag on it?
<HappyCamp> inuka_desk, RELEASE_0.52
<inuka_desk> HappyCampL ok
<landley> What does PPA stand for, anyway?
<cprov> landley: Personal Package Archive.
<lool> HappyCamp: Please test packages in their target environment
<lool> HappyCamp: If you upload to Ubuntu, test under Ubuntu, if you upload for ppa, test with hardy + ppa image-creator etc.
<landley> Ok, what _is_ PPA?
<lool> landley: This https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive
<landley> The debian local package cache on your machine?
<lool> landley: A place where we put the packages for the ubuntu-mobile team
<landley> Where does "personal" come in?
<lool> Because it's a per person or team archive
<lool> I have a ~lool ppa
<landley> Ah.  A launchpad thing.
<landley> For the ubuntu-mobile user account.
<landley> Ok.
<lool> voila
<landley> Nope, there's no ~landley on that server, and I have an account on launchpad...
<landley> It's not _that_ simple...
<lool> landley: You have to enable it
<davidm> landley, http://people.ubuntu.com/~davidm/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20080417_1800.html is fixed. Links work
<landley> Davidm: yay.  Thanks.
<davidm> Sorry my bad, I left an "s" of a path when I ran a sed command
<HappyCamp> bspencer, why aren't you on #moblin?
<inuka_desk> HappyCamp, any debian script changes, I am assuming none
<HappyCamp> inuka_desk, none
<inuka_desk> HappyCamp, thanks
<smagoun> persia: can you give me an update on your updater work? I have a build next tues and I'd like to include anything you have ready
<lool> persia: Hmm I didn't forward your update to smagoun, just to patm; will forward to smagoun too now
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-25
<evilbug> hey.
<evilbug> how long will it be until ubuntu mobile is out? (i'm not lookin for a specific answer,but something like a few months,more than a year,etc.)
<dholbach> good morning
<Xiliath> if i can't get "hildon clutter home ui (test)" to launch, is there somthing that i might be missing from Ubuntu-mobile?
<S_A> Hi! can Ubuntu Mobile be used for a thin client as a base for minimal distro ?
<Xiliath> i dont think ubuntu-mobile would work so well on one
<Xiliath> you could do a minimal hardy install, and install the hildon desktop instead of gnome
<S_A> Xiliath! how much of space this will eat ? any idea ?
<Xiliath> not off hand
<Xiliath> but i know hildon is minimal
<Xiliath> but you have to manually set it up
<Xiliath> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=582867
<Xiliath> that link shows you how to add hildon as an xsession
<Xiliath> you could take the new hardy .iso and use UCK and probally add in hildon for a custom ubuntu install just for what you need
<Xiliath> ï»¿if i can't get "hildon clutter home ui (test)" to launch, anyone have any idea what might be missing, also pidgin just hangs after i attempt to open it
<Xiliath> anybody here who might be able to provide some help with ume
<lool> Xiliath: Just ask your question, don't ask to ask :)
<lool> Xiliath: Oh the clutter thing you asked earlier perhaps?
<lool> Xiliath: This is a known issue
<Xiliath> yeah? i'm trying to get it to run, but the application does nothing
<Xiliath> i didn't know if it was somthign i didn't do that was preventing it from running
<Xiliath> lool, what about network manager, i don't see a status icon or anything, nor is there a .desktop file
<Xiliath> or at least i haven't located it yet
<persia> Xiliath: The applet should be at the top of the screen.
<Xiliath> as in next to the volume control?
<Xiliath> for whatever reason it's not, the app is not in the /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-bar/ folder
<persia> Hmm.  It was on my last image.  Updating...
<Xiliath> i think i'm running beta 3 hardy
<jackiejacker> where can I find images to run with qemu
<Xiliath> last i read it wasn't working with qemu
<persia> jackiejacker: You can't.  The qemu simulated video hardware doesn't work with the selected driver
<jackiejacker> persia, oo :(
<jackiejacker> persia, so i can only test run with xypher
<pavolklacansky> hello
<pavolklacansky> how can i try ubuntu mobile on desktop?
<Xiliath> well you could use image-creator
<persia> jackiejacker: Currently, only xephyr, supported hardware, or a custom hack.
<Xiliath> and burn a live version to test
<Xiliath> or you could run hildon on ubuntu to get a small look, but not everything works
<Xiliath> and it's not really UME
<pavolklacansky> ??
<agoliveira> pavolklacansky: You can either create a image with supoport for your specific hardware or use Xephyr, please, read the docs. There's a session abou Xephyr.
<jackiejacker> persia, well i have a n810 so i can use that to test.. i saw some progression there @ elinux
<pavolklacansky> thx i will read them
<Xiliath> ï»¿pavolklacansky, you can go here for using image creator, and create an image to use on a usb device to boot from.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/CreatingAnImageForUMEDevice
<Xiliath> or use xephyr
<persia> ï»¿jackiejacker: ARM isn't currently a supported CPU.  See ï»¿https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
<Xiliath> i have a question about using xephyr, after i launch it, what should i see in the display?
<Xiliath> when I launch it all i get is a gray box
<persia> Xiliath: An uninitialised screen buffer.
<persia> That'd be right.  Now, launch some WM targeting the virtual display.
<Xiliath> from a different terminal?
<persia> Or the same terminal (Xephyr runs fine as a background process, if a little noisily)
<Xiliath> i can't run any other processes from the same terminal
<persia> Xiliath: In that case, another terminal would be fine.
<persia> Remember to launch Xephyr from your host, and the WM from your test chroot.
<Xiliath> yeah
<Xiliath> has there been a problem with image-creator allowing packages to be installed or updated?
<Xiliath> there's a dns problem with using target terminal once you install f-sets
<jackiejacker> persia, http://mojo.handhelds.org/frisky
<persia> jackiejacker: Sure.  Please test that: it would be nice to have it in great shape.  It's not UME, but it's a step towards proper ARM support.
<jackiejacker> persia, why isn't that ume
<persia> Different default package sets.  Different versions.  Different goals.
<suihkulokki> fwiw, ther debian/lenny armel port is in better condition than the feisty-based ubuntu arm port..
<Xiliath> if they get ubuntu almost completely ported over to arm it's make getting ume ported over alot easier
<davmor2> issues with notepad still not opening
<davmor2> :(
<lool> ToddBrandt: Around?
<davmor2> Guys is mousepad meant to be the notepad of choice?
<lool> davmor2: That question sounds like you're not happy with it :)
<davmor2> lool: not that it doesn't run.  It crashes out if it is meant to be the default
<davmor2> lool: clicking on the icon does nothing so I looked through the list in /usr/bin and noticed mousepad and ran it from cli it dies badly
<smagoun> davmor2: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/matchbox-keyboard/+bug/205871
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 205871 in matchbox-keyboard "[Hardy+PPA]:Intergrated mousepad but cannot launch it from console, shows "segment fault" error" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
<davmor2> smagoun: ta that's very similar :)  I added to this bug that I found though https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+bug/214066 maybe they should be linked?
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 214066 in ubuntu-mobile "Notepad fails to launch" [High,Confirmed] 
<smagoun> davmor2: done
<davmor2> :)
<davmor2> does anyone know why /usr/games isn't in $PATH as well.  Thats the reason that the games won't run :)
<davmor2> bug 217758
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 217758 in ubuntu-mobile "Games issues" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217758
<pavolklacansky> hello where can i translate it to slovak language?
<GrueMaster> inuka_desk: ping.  Need info on rebuilding kernel for lpia.
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: https://umd.jf.intel.com/projects/umd/wiki/PSBmanual
<GrueMaster> Thanks.  This info should be on moblin.org as well.
<GrueMaster> oops, this is just for the kernel modules for the video drivers.  I'm talking about rebuilding the kernel package with added patches or changing the config file.
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: oh ok hold on
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: the wiki is not upto date let me send you an email 
<GrueMaster> send it to me @intel.  I need to forward it to Folsom.
<GrueMaster> thanks
<inuka_desk> GrueMaster: sent
<GrueMaster> got it.  Will forward it on.  He reported that it built an i386.deb package, but not an lpia package.
<GrueMaster> He might not have been in a MIC project area.
<inuka_desk> will send you an other e-mail
<lool> smagoun: I moved that matchbox-kbd bug to moblin-other; it's not affecting Ubuntu, only UME, moblin and customer builds
<smagoun> lool: thanks. I had that change in a browser window, forgot to hit submit!
<lool> smagoun: ah
<lool> k
<lool> bfiller: fixed here
<lool> bfiller: I'll push
<bfiller> lool: I would have done it, but thank you :)
<bfiller> lool: and sorry about that
<lool> bfiller: Eh you didn't know
<lool> bfiller: Pushed
<bfiller> lool: thanks, I pushed a patch earlier this afternoon to fix a crash, I will push new package into PPA
<lool> Okely
<lool> Thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-26
<pavolklacansky> where can i download current ubuntu mobile?
<pavolklacansky> ??
<tonyespy> Sciri: you there?
#ubuntu-mobile 2008-04-27
<bogfoot> Hi all
<bogfoot> Anyone know if ubuntu mobile is compatible with the EEE PC?
<bogfoot> FUCKKKK!!
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-20
<ian_brasil> anyone know where i can buy a babbage board?
<freeflying> ian_brasil: is babbage being on sale?
<davmor2> lool: you about?
<lool> I am
<davmor2> can you just try something quickly?  Hit the quit button and then click on cancel and see if it does anything
<lool> davmor2: Upgrade to the latest version, that should be fixed
<lool> netbook-launcher (1.6.20-0ubuntu2) jaunty; urgency=low
<lool>   * Add a patch cherry-picked from upstream to make the cancel button on the
<lool>     Logout dialog work. (LP: #359908)
<davmor2> lool: cool will do that now and try again
<davmor2> lool: you're correct cancel now works :)
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-21
<ogra> woah, booting mid with the usb key attached to a 1.1 hub on the jax is really painful
<ogra> hmm, to sad the partitioner doesnt fit the screen
<ogra> the timezone map actually looks awesome
<playya> ogra, should i restart the hildonized ubiquity?
<lool> ogra: Yeah I love the TZ choser
<ogra> its really only the partitioner thats not 100% perfect
 * ogra is falling over that evtouch *just works* on UNR
<ogra> thats how package management works :) break a package, dont look at it for the whole release and notice that everything is fine in final testing
<persia> playya, It's really not worth it: better would be to work just on the partitioner component to try to make it fit in the resolution available.
<persia> That also provides future-proofing to support non-hildon technologies for similar resolutions.
<ogra> wow UNR is really sweet on the Q1
<amitk> if we could only get the touchscreen working
<ogra> amitk, it works here on the current UNR image
<ogra> out of the box
 * ogra_jax waves from a successfull MID install
<lool> amitk: grep -rli HZ /etc/sysctl.* yields nothing
<lool> amitk: Anything else I should collect before shutting down?  :-)
<amitk> lool: upload the /etc/sysctl.conf to the bug
<lool> amitk: I see buffer I/O errors no sr0
<lool> That's probably the issue
<plars> Anyone here have a netbook that you know not to work at all, or with really major problems under UNR?
<cgregan> plars: dell mini12 should have some video issues
<plars> cgregan: really? mine doesn't... do you have any details about it?
<cgregan> plars: unless we have the vid driver in our restricted
<plars> cgregan: oh wait, you're talking mini 12... didn't see that until now, I have a 9
<plars> cgregan: is there a bug open on it?
<plars> cgregan: just looking for more things to add to that page I showed you
<cgregan> plars: no bug that I am aware of for distro....the shipping image has the proprietary driver
<persia> cgregan, Is that poulsbo related?
<persia> Or is there another video chip with issues?
<cgregan> persia: yes..poulsbo
<mkrufky> i think there's a memory leak in that poulsbo driver 
<mkrufky> try streaming video for more than just a few days, and then calling the system "sluggish" is an extreme understatement
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-22
<rhpot1991> quick question guys, I'm looking to upgrade my EEE1000 to Jaunty, and hopefully switch to a lpia kernel in the process, I prefer the full desktop as opposed to NBR.  What is the best way for me to go about this, the lpia alternate installer cd?
<persia> rhpot1991, probably, although I'd recommend i386 over lpia.
<rhpot1991> persia: care to discuss why?
<persia> Sure.
<persia> Firstly, the lpia kernels didn't get quite as much testing, and some significant regressions from the merge into the main kernel tree were reported quite late in the cycle.
<persia> Contrariwise, the i386 kernel got the most testing of any variety.
<persia> So I would expect the i386 kernel to be more robust.
<rhpot1991> hmmm thats unfortunate, I heard good things about running lpia on netbooks from someone who works for dell
<persia> And last I looked, both kernels were i586+, so there oughtn't be significant i686 optimisation in the lpia kernel.
<persia> Well, there's a bit of an improvement, sometimes.
<persia> At one point, lpia was configured to be i686, so you saw the ~5% improvement you'd expect over the generic kernel.
<persia> And at one point, some of the compilations were i686 optimised as well, which gave a bit more of an improvement.
<rhpot1991> persia: currently I run the array.org kernel as that works OOB for all the hardware on this, any idea if the support should be there in the ubuntu kernel for Jaunty?
<persia> Somewhere in the middle, people wanted to run lpia on the via C7M and similar chips, for instance the early Eee PCs.
<persia> I'm not familiar with the array.org kernel.  I believe that the test results for the Eee 1000 showed everything as working.
<persia> But I do know that the netbook images on cdimage.ubuntu.com are all i386.
<persia> And I believe most of the testing that was done on the Eee 1000 was done with i386.
<persia> So, if I had an Eee1000, and I was installing Jaunty, I'd use http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook-remix/daily-live/current/jaunty-netbook-remix-i386.img
<rhpot1991> persia: I'd prefer the full desktop over NBR though, or is there some easy way to modify the UI?
<rhpot1991> currently have intrepid on here so I can just update-manager -d
<persia> There's some way to modify the UI, but I forget what it is, and all the applications are the same anyway.
<persia> You should be able to just run update-manager -d
<rhpot1991> thought so
<persia> I'd recommend giving the Ubuntu kernel a try again: I think it supports the Eee 1000, and that way you get the updates, etc. automatically.
<rhpot1991> persia: I think I'll install lpia to my SDHC and mess with that some, and keep my main install in tact so I can always upgrade that if I don't like the lpia
<rhpot1991> persia: thats the plan, thanks
<persia> Please report bugs if you find them with lpia.  I doubt you'll notice much difference other than a few missing packages, but I could be wrong.
<rhpot1991> are there many missing packages?
<persia> Well, the list of FTBFS for lpia is longer than the list for i386, by a fair bit.
<persia> There's also a set of packages that are only compiled for specific architectures.  I've added "lpia" to a bunch of those, but I suspect I've missed quite a few.
<rhpot1991> persia: I'll give it a run and report what I find
<persia> rhpot1991, Cool.  I always like it when someone tests lpia, because they usually find something I missed, but because I always recommend people use i386 instead, not everyone takes me up on it :)
<ogra> settings-change desktop mode
<ogra> s/-/->/
<ogra> that switches immediately to a classic ubuntu desktop
<ogra> (under netbook remix)
<rhpot1991> ogra: any reason not to just use update-manager -d from a regular ubuntu install, IE does NBR give you anything different?
<ogra> no, i just saw that persia suggested to use jaunty-netbook-remix-i386.img ans you asked about a way to easily change the UI ... 
<ogra> there is a "one button" way included by default in UNR now
<rhpot1991> ogra: ok, just checking
<persia> So it's useful to me, even if not to you, because I can answer the question next time :)
<rhpot1991> persia: any idea if the intel drivers in Jaunty are an issue, I'm seeing some words about regression happening there
<rhpot1991> also can you verify that there is no lpia live cd, just an alternate installer
<steveire> Hi. I'm installing a kubuntu desktop system on my eee, and I noticed there's an ubuntu netbook remix. I want to make sure that if there's any under the hood differences in the UNR I can get the same on my kubuntu system. Most info pages I see on it are just about ui differences.
<lool> It's mostly UI related
<Riddell> also it's a USB image not an ISO
<Riddell> and it's about 200MB larger surprisingly
<steveire> OK so. I guess there's nothing extra for me to benefit from.
<ogra> Riddell, it has a bunch of langpacks included
<ogra> and the UNR desktop bits including their deps
<ogra> beyond that its not much different
<rhpot1991> persia: seems there is no kernel/drivers/staging for lpia, and thats where the realtek wifi drivers live
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-23
<davmor2> Congratulations Everybody and here's to the next release
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-24
<bob29> hi all
<bob29> got a weird with 09.04, sound has gone really quiet and the volume function keys have stopped working
<bob29> seems to be since i put on fluxbox
<Ameise> http://get.adobe.com/de/flashplayer/
<Ameise> kann jemand das .deb paket von der seite laden?
<Ameise> ich finde keinen button dafÃ¼r 
<Nafallo> !de
<ubottu> In den meisten ubuntu-KanÃ¤len wird nur Englisch gesprochen. FÃ¼r deutschsprachige Hilfe besuchen Sie bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Geben Sie einfach /join #ubuntu-de ein! Danke fÃ¼r Ihr VerstÃ¤ndnis.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-25
<n0s0r0g> Hi all. Graphic on Asus eeePC 900 (Intel 915GM). Boot from ubuntu-9.04-umpc - very slow UI, glxgears: 18-20 fps. Boot from ubuntu-i386 LiveUSB - UI works well, glxgears: 130-140 fps.
#ubuntu-mobile 2009-04-26
<tkerZ> any channel for UNR specific discussion?
<tkerZ> i mean this new release so broken, i even dont know where to start
<tkerZ> <- aspire one here
<tkerZ> for example, how to switch from UNR interface to classic desktop without breaking system ?
<tkerZ> and how to set external display to native res ? this release not able to detect native res
<tkerZ> KNOCK KNOCK
<tkerZ> WHO IS HERE
<tkerZ> ITS ME JESUS LOL
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-04-26
<nanoguy> what is this channel?
<nanoguy> please someone tell me
<nanoguy> how do i install the netbook remix under ubuntu 10.04 RC?
<rbelem> ian_brasil, http://www.ditsonline.com/order.php?ipa=3385
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-04-27
<NCommander> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is NCommander.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<NCommander> er
<NCommander> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:01.
<davidm> NCommander, that was the fastest meeting I've ever seen
<NCommander> davidm: trying to set an example ;-)
<persia> NCommander: I can't recommend that as standard process.  My last three Java Team meetings were like that, roughly, which is part of why there aren't any more Java Team meetings.
<NCommander> persia: we had a java team?
<ogra> though you probably held them in the right channel :)
<persia> Yes, and I did, and we still have a Java Team, but the leader hasn't called a meeting in over a year, and most of the active members are now in pkg-java.
<davidm> good enough, thanks
#ubuntu-mobile 2010-04-28
<ian_brasil> asac: I just proposed the liquid blueprint for UDS-M..i am not sure a whole session on Liquid is necessary but some breakouts to talk about kdelibs fine tuning, Ofono and the telephony stack in general would be very useful
<asac> ian_brasil: is that filed against the ubuntu-arm project?
<asac> ian_brasil: can you have a link?
<ian_brasil> asac: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-liquid
