#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-18
<pleia2> beardygnome: wow, thanks!
<beardygnome> pleia2: the website feedback email?
<pleia2> yes :)
<beardygnome> been working on that for a while, hope it's useful for you
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah. I did kind of push for website content reviews today, didn't I?
<Unit193> That's better than I could do (Not one for content)
<charlie-tca> Yes, that is a great review
<Unit193> Aye, I already gave my ideas
<charlie-tca> now if we could just get bladernr involved more ;)
<bladernr> ??
<Unit193> Aye, we need to work on that one...
<charlie-tca> oh, hi, bladernr 
<charlie-tca> we are looking for people to help build Xubuntu into the best distribution around again 
<bladernr> what aon earth are you trying to get me involved with?
<charlie-tca> just one leeetle project
<charlie-tca> We want to make Xubuntu come out on top again. 
<bladernr> charlie-tca is shifty ;-)
<charlie-tca> oh, man!
<bladernr> what's that gotta do with me?
<charlie-tca> caught me again
<charlie-tca> you are here, right? We plan to put everyone to work, I thought. 
<charlie-tca> or at least get ideas out of them to help improve Xubuntu.
<charlie-tca> heh, what a plan, huh?
<charlie-tca> plan: find out what people do/do not like now and fix it
<Unit193> bladernr: I just went for the helping as I have no ideas :D
<bladernr> I'm in a ton of channels ;-) I thought Xubuntu was already on top, next to Ubuntu at least...  I personally don't care for Kubuntu much (just don't care for the KDE interface)...
<charlie-tca> hm, so, 1. don't use KDE interface
<charlie-tca> 2. ??
<Unit193> Use XFCE ;)
<charlie-tca> We are way down the list, like 36
<Unit193> 31 Xubuntu 311
<charlie-tca> See, if you think of Ubuntu as 1, we are way down
<bladernr> guess it depends on which list you're looking at :D
<charlie-tca> +1
<astraljava> No desktop image today, but at least there's the alternate for testing this evening.
<cody-somerville> mr_pouit, Are you attending DebCamp by any chance?
<charlie-tca> Desktop images are broken again, but we can help test the 10.04.3 images instead
<charlie-tca> Record test results on the iso tracker at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<astraljava> Umm... where are the Xubuntu lucid updates images? There're only links to Ubuntu's different variations, and Kubuntu images.
<charlie-tca> We are not doing this .3 release
<astraljava> Ahhh... okay, gotcha.
<astraljava> I'd imagine vanilla and Kubuntu receive enough testing as it is, so I'll just test our (well, your) alternate.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: still haven't been able to get x11-common released
<charlie-tca> but I am still working on it
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: x11-common should be uploaded today
<micahg> charlie-tca: was just done
<charlie-tca> I know
<charlie-tca> I been in #ubuntu-x trying to get that for 6 hours now
<ochosi> micahg: i talked to andrea cimitan today about gtk2 apps being rendered with gtk3 (what you mentioned yesterday in the meeting)
<ochosi> micahg: he said it's not even planned for oneiric, and i guess even then having a good/working gtk2 theme around would probably still be better
<micahg> ochosi: hmm, that's news to me, I thought it was already done
<ochosi> micahg: that's all i can tell you, but i'd assume that cimi would know...
<micahg> hmm, I'll poke the desktop folk later this week, thanks for the update
<ochosi> sure, no problem
<ochosi> but anyway, don't worry too much about the gtk2 theme
<ochosi> because that's working anyway
<ochosi> what's not working is the gtk3 theme
<ochosi> so i have to do that either way
<micahg> definitely true
<ochosi> anyway, catch ya later
<J21> < Unit193>I finally got lazy and setup dl-ubuntu-test-iso and put a small script to make it go to the correct dir with xubuntu-desktop and xubuntu-alt and all I have to type is "xubuntu"
#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-19
<Unit193> pleia2: You just want the pre-upgrade images? (Like what we have +1?)
<pleia2> oh yes
<Unit193> No need to get the upgrade? That really cuts down on the time!
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> doing mav to natty, or..?
<Unit193> Yep!
<pleia2> cool
<pleia2> so yeah, just duplicates of everything on /getubuntu
<Unit193> I thought I would have to actually DO the upgrade! \o/  (After doing install)
<pleia2> also I just realized that page is called getubuntu ...ubuntu? huh.
<Unit193> That's what the one guy pointed out
<pleia2> going through beardygnome's website review post now to file some more bugs
<Unit193> Anything else I can help with? (About to post them to the bugreport)
<Unit193> BTW, when I first installed, it already knew about the upgrade so I couldn't get http://xubuntu.org/sites/default/files/update-manager-updates_0.png
<pleia2> since you're on the upgrade screens can you sanity-check the portion of beardygnome's email about upgrades? it's at the bottom of the mail (I can link to it if you don't have the email to -devel handy)
<Unit193> He is correct, it's in the Update Manager program
<Unit193> And I know it's Xubuntu Session
<pleia2> ok cool, thanks
<Unit193> unit193.imgur.com/xubuntu_update Good? I still have it if you need more
<pleia2> checking
<Unit193> pleia2: One last idiot question: Do I make more than one bug comment? I only see one upload space
<pleia2> hm, is that the default theme?
<pleia2> you should probably just leave a comment and email me the images: lyz@ubuntu.com
<Unit193> Yes
<pleia2> ok cool, these are probably fine, I'm going to finish bg's email and I'll let you know if I have any questions when I get to that section
<pleia2> bad gmail, Unit193 not spam!
<pleia2> bad Unit193, spaces in filenames!
<pleia2> :)
<Unit193> pleia2: I know, most of the time I don't (And maybe I AM spam! ;) )
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> Unit193: updated with better text and your screenshots, look good? http://xubuntu.org/getubuntu
<Unit193> Update Manager is a program, not a menu. Does that come across?
<pleia2> I think so, the text previously was similar
<Unit193> Mk. Doesn't fully work on 1024x768, but I'm not sure you need it to. It's all good!
<pleia2> the site?
<pleia2> oh I see, the images fall off the edge
<Unit193> Yep. No other need for my VM?
<pleia2> nope, we're set
<pleia2> thank you!
<Unit193> Sure! Let me know if I can do anything else!
<pleia2> will do :)
<Unit193> Ah, you going to mark the bug as fixed?
<pleia2> have done
<Unit193> Oh, I thought it would email me, I fail
<pleia2> it may eventually, launchpad emails take a long time lately (like 20 minutes sometimes!)
<pleia2> just updated a few minutesago
<mr_pouit> micahg: the xubuntu-exclude-blabla... patch is now upstream
<jarnos> I installed by a two days old iso, but oneiric does not let me log in. 
<jarnos> Any chance it is fixed in today's iso?
<astraljava> jarnos: Did you install from the desktop image, or the alternate?
<astraljava> jarnos: Well, at least there is a new desktop image today, whee!
<astraljava> jarnos: If you can wait a while, I'll let you know.
<astraljava> Big changes, almost 25% difference.
<jarnos> astraljava, I got it from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/ There is only alternate installs available there.
<astraljava> jarnos: Ahh... alright. So, how did it fail to log you in? How did you try?
<astraljava> jarnos: For me, it only worked if you clicked on Other..., then presented your username, chose the Xubuntu session, and then typed in the passwd.
<jarnos> astraljava, i clicked on my name in the login screen. Then only background image was visible anymore.
<jarnos> astraljava, I'll try by the Other way.
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<GridCube> good and cold
<charlie-tca> really?
<charlie-tca> about 15C / 59F here
<charlie-tca> Going to be another really hot day, since it is only 7:51 AM
<charlie-tca> I think the images should be working today
<GridCube> 7.1ÂºC
<charlie-tca> No tests recorded yesterday
<charlie-tca> yikes!
<GridCube> and its noon
<charlie-tca> That's cold
<GridCube> will try to do two today, alternate and desktop
<charlie-tca> That would be great!
<charlie-tca> look for live sessions to start working soon, too
<ochosi> GridCube: do you use compiz btw?
<GridCube> nope
<GridCube> i used it once or twice
<ochosi> k, nvm
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> i can use it if you need testing
<ochosi> if you know someone who could test greybird's emerald theme for me, let me know :)
<ochosi> well only if it's not too much hassle for you or if you have the spare time
<ochosi> i mean there must be xubuntu compiz users somewhere out there
<GridCube> sure thing, but when im home, not at work where im stuck whit XP
<GridCube> ooooo wait... i have a spare computer here... :D i can bring my xubuntu-tesiting hd!
<ochosi> :)
 * charlie-tca won't even attempt testing anything "compiz". It just doesn't work for me
<ochosi> yeah, no worries, i mean i *know* the metacity theme is ok
<ochosi> but someone complained about the emerald theme not working
<ochosi> but since it works for me i wanted to confirm it
<charlie-tca> It has been broken for about two or more releases, since they stopped updating it for Ubuntu.
<ochosi> yeah, i know. but there's a ppa somewhere
<charlie-tca> And there are users that want to have compiz and emerald using Xubuntu
<ochosi> yes, unfortunately...
<ochosi> i mean i understand that emerald is more flexible/configurable than metacity, but it's just *so* unstable
<ochosi> anyway, now at least they can't complain about lack of support on our side anymore ;)
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> gods im freezing
<GridCube> tea time!
<charlie-tca> people across the USA complaining about the heat, and you are freezing?
 * charlie-tca notes the temperature here is rising about 1C every hour
<charlie-tca> so, GridCube, anyway to trade some of my heat here for the cooler temps there?
<GridCube> indeed
<GridCube> you do some global warming and we are done (?)
<charlie-tca> hehe
<micahg> mr_pouit: great, thanks!
<GridCube> sent the mail to the dev list regarding gimp  :D
<charlie-tca> Thank you, GridCube 
<micahg> GridCube: you might have missed the backlash when Ubuntu removed GIMP from the default install back in Lucid
<GridCube> O_o it did?
<charlie-tca> That's why I suggested the ML, instead of just saying "No way, are you nuts?"
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> GridCube: well at least now you know what charlie thinks about it ;D
<GridCube> I have never found gimp any usabilty what so ever, maybe really rarely, but if i need to edit an image i just use other stuff, gimp is just to much
<ochosi> hm, dunno, actually i've always been pretty happy with gimp
<charlie-tca> Must be a new gimp user, huh?
<GridCube> wouldn't it be cool to have "choose your apps" when installing?
<ochosi> but i'm not sure i'm representative, because i tend to do a lot of graphical stuff
<charlie-tca> I have used gimp a lot, since I switched to Ubuntu back in 2005
<micahg> GridCube: you'd need a DVD install to do something like that
<charlie-tca> but I would go with the majority on it, I guess
<GridCube> not whit a netinstall
<ochosi> GridCube: iirc edubuntu tried that in their natty, maybe it's worth asking them about it
<GridCube> i see
<charlie-tca> GridCube: what do you with those with expensive connections, doing netinstalls?
<GridCube> well not for everyone 
<GridCube> i mean debian has 46 cds bro
<charlie-tca> We try hard to give everyone the same experience, whether installing by cd or net
<GridCube> i see
<charlie-tca> yup, and we have one
<GridCube> well my idea is pretty simple, i think that gimp, on xubuntu, is too much
<ochosi> hm, actually i'm not sure that choosing your software when installing is a wise approach. you can choose your software *after* installing anyway and it's nice to deliver good defaults.
<charlie-tca> We give a usable installation on one cd, which makes it pretty good for all users. Download 700MB and use the computer
<GridCube> well yes
<GridCube> you are correct
 * GridCube still doesn't like gimp
 * ochosi is not sure that that's sufficient to drop gimp
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> i've given my reasons on the mail
<charlie-tca> That gives others a chance to add a yes or no and reasons for their choice.
<charlie-tca> gimp is a bit controversial to discuss
<GridCube> why?
<charlie-tca> see above short discussion :)
<GridCube> don't people change firefox for chromium or midori? aint that even more controversial?
<charlie-tca> sure, users do
<charlie-tca> chromium has been brought up every UDS and release
<charlie-tca> midori keeps coming up for us, but it ain't happened yet, has it?
<GridCube> nope
<Unit193> Temperature: 94.5 Â°F | Feels Like 119 Â°F || I always use FF unless the computer can't handle it. I should be able to test something today
<charlie-tca> great!
<charlie-tca> looks warm there, though
<charlie-tca> "only" 84 F here now
<micahg> mythbuntu went for chromium
<GridCube> i dont know franheits :(
<micahg> 91F here
<micahg> 33C for GridCube's benefit
<GridCube> 47.84F
<GridCube> XD thats what my conversor says
<GridCube> 8.8C at 15:51hs
<GridCube> okay! leaving work now!
<GridCube> :D see you in a couple of hours
<charlie-tca> beardygnome: thank you very much for doing that review
<charlie-tca> It did start a bit of discussion, even.
<beardygnome> no problem charlie
<beardygnome> i hope to get to the team specific parts before the next meeting
<GridCube> mmm im doing the desktop test for today's image
<GridCube> and it fails
<charlie-tca> live session?
<charlie-tca> or an install?
<Unit193> Live failed for me
<charlie-tca> I don't think we have live working yet
<GridCube> live went all black
<charlie-tca> but, I am hoping for this week, maybe?
<charlie-tca> yup
<Unit193> GridCube: What type? I'll do autoresize if you are doing normal
<charlie-tca> GridCube: been doing that since we started using lightdm
<GridCube> but install gives me this; http://imagebin.org/163873
<charlie-tca> You can run the install xubuntu from the menu, though
<charlie-tca> cancel, abort the installation, and try again
<GridCube> i used the same disk i've been using to test alternate, so it was partitioned whit swap and /
<GridCube> did that
<GridCube> or you maen reboot?
<charlie-tca> If you get the two times, file a bug against ubiquity and attach the image
<charlie-tca> yup, after you abort, you have to reboot before it will install right
<GridCube> okay
<GridCube> the pymouth text says 11.04
<Unit193> GridCube: Are you doing entire disk?
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> That's a bug too, if you didn't accidently get the image
<Unit193> It's always been 11.04, hasn't updated for this round
<charlie-tca> Well, that's still a bug
<charlie-tca> That's the kind of bug that we need, too, since it is easy to forget to do that.
<Unit193> I'll file once I get installed
<Unit193> Since it's not exactly a Plymouth bug, would that go agenst xubuntu-default-settings?
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-screenshooter/+bug/813221
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 813221 in xfce4-screenshooter (Ubuntu) "xfce4-screenshot fails to "open whit" " [Undecided,New]
<charlie-tca> That's a plymouth bug if it is telling us the wrong release, IIRC
<charlie-tca> but, yes, I think it is against xubuntu-default-settings
<charlie-tca> no it isn't
 * charlie-tca slaps head
<charlie-tca> Unit193: it should be against xubuntu-artwork
<GridCube> :D I helped !
<GridCube> D: It keeps telling me "that name already exist on the network" when editing th computer name
<Unit193> Go to the next text box and it's fixed
<Unit193> I noted that one before, but no bug files
<Unit193> s/files/filed
<GridCube> it is something that might get people really confused
 * GridCube points at himself
<Unit193> Yes it is
<GridCube> oh nice advertising like windows have :P
<Unit193> Yes, but you can ACTUALLY click on the support button :P
<GridCube> jejeje
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> well, doesn the name already exist that you are using?
<GridCube> no...
<charlie-tca> Then that is another bug.
<charlie-tca> ubuntu-bug ubiquity
<charlie-tca> since it is the desktop installer. I thought it was always right, since the names do exist here
<Unit193> I made some crazy names for it to pick
<GridCube> well i changed it to a lot of names, and it always said it
<charlie-tca> I always use one of the 99 names I have defined
<charlie-tca> one can file the bug, one can confirm it
<GridCube> :P okay
<charlie-tca> and one should add it the bug tracker for Xubuntu.
<GridCube> in the spaÃ±ish welcomer/installer/advertising there is a few misspellings
<charlie-tca> When I tell someone, we had ?? bugs in that release, they always wonder how I know ;)
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> Those are translation bugs
<GridCube> i agree
<GridCube> XD
<charlie-tca> You file them against xubuntu-artwork, and tell them exactly what they say and we send it to translations to get fixed
<Unit193> GridCube: I would assume you are going to file and I'll confirm?  I can add it to the bug tracker if you don't want to
<GridCube> its the same Unit193 :P i have to finish the installation first anyway
<Unit193> bug tracker is a wiki page, not the same
<GridCube> charlie-tca, next time i will pay more attention
<charlie-tca> right
<GridCube> Unit193, oh, yes, i don't know how to do that
<charlie-tca> but it does let me have a pretty accurate count of bugs in the release
<GridCube> :)
<charlie-tca> It's easy, especially if you have a launchpad login
<Unit193> I can edit the wiki
<GridCube> now its taking its time on a black screen since like5 minutes ago
<Unit193> Hah! Killthebirdsinthefireplace isn't on the network :P
<GridCube> ... still black
<GridCube> :/
<charlie-tca> GridCube: time to upgrade; the screenshot open with bug is fixed in Oneiric 
<GridCube> oh... :( but i don't want to reconfigure stuff
<charlie-tca> and there are a lot of changes already, too
<GridCube> my screen still black
<charlie-tca> on the install or the live session?
<GridCube> on the install
<GridCube> 25 minutes already
<GridCube> on a tty top says its working
<GridCube> on something
<charlie-tca> which one? i386 full disk desktop?
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> trying to reproduce that 
<charlie-tca> When should I see that?
<GridCube> after the installer/advertising ends
<GridCube> it just hanged 
<GridCube> :/
<charlie-tca> did you hit a key to restart?
<GridCube> no
<charlie-tca> or is the screensaver freezing the screen?
<GridCube> it never asked for it
<charlie-tca> try hitting enter on it anyway
<GridCube> screensaver?
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> i get the "I'm working" pointer
<GridCube> you know the circle that has a circling dot?
<charlie-tca> yes
<GridCube> that
<charlie-tca> okay, hardware or vbox?
<GridCube> vbox
<GridCube> top says its working on somethng called "http"
<charlie-tca> use the vbox control key + F2 to get to a tty, and then try to reset it by selecting Machine -> Ctrl-Alt-Del
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/163883
<charlie-tca> Yeah, ubiquity is still running
<charlie-tca> installing now
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> now i got to a welcome screen
<GridCube> but no tty's
<GridCube> and if i choose my name it fails
<GridCube> :/ i cant see grub either
<GridCube> nope
#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-20
<GridCube> oh! xubutu session! is working!
<GridCube> but i still can see anything on the ttys
<GridCube> bug 813240
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813240 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu installer says "That name already exist on the network" for any choosen name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813240
<GridCube> okay
<GridCube> i updated the spreadsheet
<GridCube> now i gotta go
<GridCube> :) good night people, see you tomorrow from work!
<GridCube> :D
<Unit193> I'll confirm and add
<Unit193> charlie: You have mail
<charlie-tca> still installing here
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> mail?
<Unit193> Er...  The wiki sent you an edit notification
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah, I get a lot of those
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> hm, I got a restart now button instead of a black screen.
<charlie-tca> Maybe GridCube has his memory or video too low
<charlie-tca> or trying to use yesterdays broken image
<Unit193> I got a restart prompt. And I'm sure the email was just something you were SO happy to see :P (Re: Thanks) 
<charlie-tca> can't log in though without using "Other..."
<charlie-tca> I always am. It just lets me see what is being changed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu as soon as it happens
<charlie-tca> Thank you for adding that bug!
<charlie-tca> That's what makes me happy
<charlie-tca> Now I still have to go do a few writeups for today, before it gets too late
<Unit193> ...and I'm going to have to edit that page again with MY bug report -_-
<Unit193> I know it's there, but I got a black screen from grub > lightdm
<charlie-tca> Oh, man
<charlie-tca> tried a restart? sometimes it screws up, but can not be reproduced
<Unit193> It's all working, just as normal, Plymouth doesn't show up (Grub is fine, LightDM is fine, and it boots fine)
<charlie-tca> Sounds good then?
<Unit193> Yeah, I'll file the 11.04 Plymouth bug
<charlie-tca> Okay, I am gone now. Will see you good people in the morning
<Unit193> Forgot to say Bug 813267
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813267 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Plymouth says 11.04" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813267
<Unit193> I couldn't think of a good name :/
<charlie-tca> That's the best name you could give it
<charlie-tca> It is very specific
<Unit193> I thought you were going to sleep
<charlie-tca> I am
<charlie-tca> Just forgot to turn off the monitor
<Guest89512> how do I get higher resolutions?
<micahg> !topic | Guest89512 
<ubottu> Guest89512: Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<micahg> hmm, I think I meant offtopic
<micahg> !offtopic | Guest89512 
<ubottu> Guest89512: #xubuntu is the Xubuntu support channel, #xubuntu-devel for discussion regarding development of Xubuntu, and #xubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
<Guest89512> where should i bring this topic?
<micahg> that's better :)
<micahg> Guest89512: #xubuntu
<Guest89512> no one is there
<micahg> Guest89512: it's the middle of the night or early morning for most people in the channel
<Guest89512> would you mind helping me out?
<micahg> sorry, I'm about to go to sleep, I suggest asking your question in there and idling, someone should respond in a few hours hopefully
<micahg> Guest89512: otherwise, there's a xubuntu-users list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-users
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> alternate images being rebuilt, waiting to see if we get any today
<GridCube> good morning
<GridCube> charlie-tca: about yesterday, every time i install that virtualbox using alternate i have no problems, will try to install the desktop edition whit higer video memory today
<charlie-tca> weird, I use 512MB ram and 64MB video here
<GridCube> i think i've reduced the video ram to 32mb :P
<charlie-tca> astraljava: thanks for asking about alternate images.
<astraljava> charlie-tca: I'm a sucker for those. :) I hate the ubiquity installer. :)
<charlie-tca> I only use it during testing. I always install from the alternate images for my own systems
<astraljava> Right, yeah that works too.
<astraljava> Well, I might be able to test tonight, but after that not for a few days, most likely until Monday.
<astraljava> Hope that's not a problem.
<astraljava> Off to a finnish "baseball" game, see ya later. :)
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will keep on eye open for images, and can run both yours and ours (studio and xubuntu)
<charlie-tca> Alternate images dated today are posted now. 
<micahg> mr_pouit: FYI, gnumeric is still pulling in evince (it uses it for print preview), I need to find out if that's just opening a PDF in the default viewer or using the evince libraries
<J21> Looks like I forgot to put my tests in the GDoc
<charlie-tca> It's never too late, if there is not room, just add a line
<J21> Yeah, I ran the tests yesterday and even put that the live failed (This is Unit193's shell account)
<GridCube> well the desktop installer doesnt like 256MB of ram
<GridCube> it just stops there
<GridCube> finally
<GridCube> but  i can't seem to get a session
<GridCube> I don' know if its relevant, but in the login  list from lightdm the user names have an uppercase on the first letter
<GridCube> this is wrong and if i try to log in whit my user whit uppercase it just fails (like it should)
<GridCube> after rebooting choosing my name on the list gives me xubuntu session, no "other" workarround needed
<GridCube> i get a "System problem detected" screen
<GridCube> woah i got a lot of "system problem detected"
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/164076
<charlie-tca> looks like probable conflicts with GTK2 and GTK3 right now
<charlie-tca> I think 256 is not enough at this point in development. Somewhere closer to beta2 will work better with 256MB
<GridCube> i upped it to 512 already
<charlie-tca> Make a note on the spreadsheet about those errors
<GridCube> i did
<charlie-tca> see if it clears up in a day or two, then file the bug
<GridCube> ok
<charlie-tca> I have been busy with 10.04.3 testing, so I may not get a chance to try oneiric tests again until Friday
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :) hope any of my messings arround do help somehow XD
#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-21
<charlie-tca> It does. It let's us know what the images are doing, which lets the developers know what is broken.
<Unit193> Bug 807338 is a dupe of Bug #811524 ?? Not quite... Not in my mind anyway
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 807338 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu guest account doesn't load (dup-of: 811524)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/807338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 811524 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Lightdm don't ask password if select user by mouse click or pressing Enter key." [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811524
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 811524 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Lightdm don't ask password if select user by mouse click or pressing Enter key." [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811524
<charlie-tca> not anymore
<Unit193> Thanks, I got that change in my email and I didn't want to change it since that person has way more karma :P
<charlie-tca> If that person really thinks they are duplicates, he needs to state why
<charlie-tca> He probably got that karma by marking that a duplicate
<Unit193> (I didn't look at the correct sign) I'm also new to bug reporting.
<micahg> Unit193: don't worry about karma much, people can get it for all types of silly things, good things as well, I'd suggest installing firefox-lp-improvements from ppa:gm-dev-launchpad and you can see who's in bug control on each comment 
<micahg> Unit193: even then, if you think there's a problem, feel free to raise it, we're only human
<Unit193> micahg: Thanks. I have LP_karma_suffix 1.2, I just looked at the wrong person in the other report (Sure I'm an idiot, but the person had over 10K). Thanks for saying I should say something about it as I did this time (Wasn't sure if I should bother)
<micahg> Unit193: asking never hurts
<Unit193> I know karma is also VERY lose
<micahg> I actually think it should be a dupe of bug 809890 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 809890 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lightdm-example-gtk-greeter crashed with SIGSEGV in __strcmp_ssse3()" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809890
<Unit193> That very well could be
<charlie-tca> micahg: comment if you mark it a dup, please
<micahg> I usually just use the standard dupe comment when I dupe stuff
<charlie-tca> Although I will trust you further than the 29 points of karma
<Unit193> Hmmm... I guess I need to search more before reporting a bug... (I have 55 so far :P )
<micahg> Unit193: most of my karma at this point is uploads, then bugs, I used to have a lot of karma in the answers section
<charlie-tca> I used to have karma, too
<micahg> charlie-tca: you still do :)
<charlie-tca> micahg: if you don't dup those, I will investigate tomorrow. too tired tonight.
<charlie-tca> I have a small amount now, I should be over 10,000 by this point in the cycle
<micahg> well, a lot of people are doing bug things, which I think might be good
<Unit193> I'm a tester/irc helper, not a bug reporter/dev.  I should be more able to run one tomorrow
<charlie-tca> hm, picked up an old Dell desktop at a yardsale for 10 dollars, come to find out, 2.8GHz p4, 1GB ram, and 64bit. needs an up-to-date video card to go with the 160GB SATA drive in it
<micahg> \o/
<charlie-tca> I took it because they really wanted to get rid of it... 
<Unit193> I would do real installs if I could figure out a way to get it installed without using CDs or flash (I know, taking out all the options)
<charlie-tca> You can, you can make the image run in a loop and install from the hard drive. 
<charlie-tca> You should google for that
<charlie-tca> or I will ask tomorrow, when a user I know is doing that is online
<charlie-tca> hm, got to go bang my head on the pillow now.
<charlie-tca> good night
<Unit193> Good night
<micahg> night charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Is this going to cause us more trouble than it is worth?
<charlie-tca> http://blog.launchpad.net/bug-tracking/automatic-confirmation
 * micahg thinks that makes sense to some extent
<charlie-tca> I have seen too many bugs marked confirmed that never get looked at, since confirmed should mean there is enough information to work on it
<micahg> nope, confirmed just means it can be reproduced (or at least it should mean that, otherwise triaged is worthless)
<charlie-tca> \o/
<charlie-tca> that's right
<charlie-tca> I forgot that part, huh?
<micahg> :)
<knome> is it only me, or is "new separator" on alacarte not working?
<charlie-tca> Unit193: how to install without a cd or usb drive - 
<charlie-tca> http://p.bugabundo.net/tag/grub2
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Alright, that may be something to try
<charlie-tca> and, if that don't work, try http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1549847
<Unit193> Is Xubuntu trying to be lightweight?
<charlie-tca> lighter than Ubuntu
<charlie-tca> depends on your definition of lightweight
#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-22
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | No Oneiric Ocelot images today
<charlie-tca> no images today for anyone
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: which bugs do I need to push to get lightdm working for us now?
<Unit193> Should we test yesterday?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> NOt unless you really want to. I am trying to find where today's images are, since they were built
<charlie-tca> hm, well...
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu images are available now for testing. 
<charlie-tca> Only Xubuntu images have been published today, for some odd reason :)
<charlie-tca> We are still trying to publish Kubuntu, Ubuntu, UbuntuStudio
<Unit193> Thanks for telling. Topic? I'm running dl-ubuntu-test-iso (Doesn't seem to like network shares)
<charlie-tca> I was waiting to see if the images are real ;)
<Unit193> Er... Sorry then
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Want to get involved? See: http://xubuntu.org/contribute | #xubuntu for support, #xubuntu-offtopic for general discussion | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Oneiric Ocelot images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<charlie-tca> don't be. It's fine to remind me to fix thisgs
<charlie-tca> things, too,
<charlie-tca> Better?
<Unit193> Sure, yep
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<Unit193> "Target 88.4% complete." Since yesterday!
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> by the way, I got both desktop and alternate images working from the hard drive, through grub2
<charlie-tca> Unfortunately, the desktop images will only work through the live session, which is broken...
<charlie-tca> my images are still syncing. wish I had a fast internet :(
<Unit193> Mine are all done
<Unit193> FATAL: Error Inserting ramzswap   something tells me that isn't a good thing...
<charlie-tca> heh, I don't think it is
 * Unit193 OEM32
<Pjotr> I like the announcement of Xubuntu 11.10 alpha 2: "The developers are working hard to make Xubuntu 11.10 one of the best Linux distributions yet. They are striving to ensure that everything will work for all users, and instead of many changes, are working to ensure the release is very stable and secure."
<Pjotr> I think it would be good if you would position Xubuntu more clearly as the ideal Gnome 2 replacement
<Pjotr> which it is!  :-)
<charlie-tca> it isn't. That is not the goal, since Xfce and Gnome have never been the same
<Unit193> There are a few changes (LightDM), but it's mostly going for stable
<Pjotr> OK, but.... as a Gnome 2 user for years, I just love Xubuntu right now
<Pjotr> makes me feel at home again
<Unit193> I'm sure we are glad you liked it! I know I do ;)
<Pjotr> You guys are producing a desktop environment that rocks. I know for sure that many current Gnome 2 users will feel much happier with Xubuntu 11.10 than with Ubuntu 11.10. Spread the word!  :-)
<charlie-tca> Please don't spread the word that it is "just like gnome2", because every time someone does that, we get hundreds of disappointed users
<Unit193> charlie-tca: I'm not getting LightDM. Anything I should do before calling this a fail? (sudo /etc/init.d/lightdm restart )
<charlie-tca> sudo service lightdm restart
<charlie-tca> it doesn't use init.d anymore
<charlie-tca> it is upstart now
<charlie-tca> which image?
<Unit193> Desktop
<charlie-tca> 64?
<Unit193> 32
<Unit193> I only do 32
<charlie-tca> live session is still broke
<Unit193> This is after install from the menu option
<charlie-tca> really?
<charlie-tca> I can one in vbox and try to reproduce it
<charlie-tca> well, no I can't
<charlie-tca> vbox is not working with the new kernel
<charlie-tca> lol, gonna be a long weekend
<charlie-tca> fail it, I will run images this weekend
<charlie-tca> I will have to test on hardware until vbox works again in oneiric
<Unit193> I'll try alt full disk now (OEM fail)
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> gotta reboot, reinstalling VBox
<Unit193> Anything you want me to test? Or just anything?
<charlie-tca> anything, yup
<charlie-tca> we need to test all the images, so if we can get something to work, that would be a good thing.
<Unit193> Thanks for setting up the GDoc! It's been quite easy to report!  32bit Alternate Entire Disk w/Encryption
<charlie-tca> You are welcome. 
<charlie-tca> micahg: anything on java this week?
<micahg> charlie-tca: no, I'll send an e-mail over the weekend, I haven't had time to talk to mvo yet
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Well, removed and reinstalled VBox, got it working with the latest kernel, anyway
<Unit193> Hmmm... I'm going with LVM AND Home encryption, this will be odd (Or is this offtopic?)
<charlie-tca> nope
<charlie-tca> That should be correct. If you go Encrypted LVM and don't encrypt /home, it fails now
<Unit193> This is my first time with Encrypted LVM/home
<charlie-tca> It's easy, sort of
<charlie-tca> OEM and FreeSoftware are difficult to do, with OEM probably the hardest install of all to get to work
<Unit193> I'll see if I can run a few more installs after this
<Unit193> OEM didn't work, but it wasn't hard (But get it to work may be the trick)
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> If you don't shutdown at the right point, or click prepare an extra click, it fails
<charlie-tca> and, probably 25% of the time, if you do it right, it fails anyway
<Unit193> OEM is a bug just like Plymouth it seems
<charlie-tca> When it works, it is really good
#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-23
<Unit193> "Sorry, the program "lightdm-example-gtk-greeter" closed unexpectedly" Would this be something to report? I didn't notice any issues, but I dunno
<Unit193> (Sorry for the incessant buggering)
<charlie-tca> it's already reported
<charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/811909
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 811909 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "lightdm-example-gtk-greeter crashed with SIGSEGV in _start()" [High,Confirmed]
<charlie-tca> keep buggering
<charlie-tca> if it helps get these bugs reported, it will help
 * Unit193 is and idiot and needs to remember to search BEFORE asking :facepalms:
<charlie-tca> kind of a cryptic name, though
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Jockey-gtk is supposed to be in the System menu, right? (And on boot?)
<charlie-tca> in the system menu as "Additional Drivers
<Unit193> (Guess it doesn't matter as long as it's installed
<Unit193> Not on this install
<Unit193> This is Desktop 32 entire
<charlie-tca> moved it
<charlie-tca> look in Menu -> Settings -> Additional Drivers, but don't go to settings manager
<Unit193> I think it was in a different place on the last install :/ I guess I could have been wrong on that too
<charlie-tca> yup, where ever the Unity guys decide to move things, we get to dig to find them
<charlie-tca> Did you find it?
<Unit193> Yeah, I just thought it was different on my last install (Same day, different CD)
<charlie-tca> might have been
<Unit193> I guess this just isn't my day for helping myself
<charlie-tca> heh, some days are like that
<charlie-tca> been there, done that
<charlie-tca> I have had days where I had to ask where something so easy as terminal is, every install
<Unit193> Should I remove OEM since that might have been user error?
<charlie-tca> no, leave it there. It shows someone tried to do it, at least
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: we have menu entries Menu -> System -> Xterm and UXterm now in a fresh oneiric install.
<charlie-tca> Okay, I am going get some rest tonight now.
<charlie-tca> Have fun.
<jarnos> Did you get my email to the mailing list?
<Unit193> Graphics software (Was: Replacing GIMP) ? Why subject change?
<jarnos> Unit193, well, neither rawstudio nor geeqie in not a replacement for Gimp.
<jarnos> They are meant to do different things at least partly.
<jarnos> I couldn't find any image viewer in Xubuntu 11.04. And image viewer changed in many releases before.
<Unit193> Risotto (or something almost close to that) is what it uses
<jarnos> Unit193, oh, you are correct. I had removed it and did not notice it since xubuntu-desktop meta-package was still installes.
<jarnos> ^installed.
<jarnos> It is ristretto
<jarnos> Risotto is food.
<knome> interesting discussion
<Unit193> Well, I'm a little hungry
<Unit193> I would have thought people wouldn't want to remove GIMP
<knome> i think keeping gimp was kinf of a "response" for ubuntu losing it.
<knome> it is a good image editor, but it's true that it might not fit the xubuntu ideology
<knome> on the other hand, we have thunderbird as default mail client and not something else...
<Unit193> Thunderbird and Firefox are the best for default IMO
<knome> but TB *is* heavy and it's not the best for everybody. same goes for gimp
<Unit193> If Postler gets an update, it's a simple little client (annoying as it may be)
<knome> i don't know about that. it's not for me.
<Unit193> Quite true, I'm going to stick with alpine and gmail (And a little thunderbird)
<jarnos> If xubuntu has image editor by default, why not also video editor?
<knome> jarnos, image editing is far more common than video editing.
<knome> jarnos, if xubuntu has a file manager, why don't have a comic strip collection manager as well?
<jarnos> knome, you can manage a comic strip collection by a file manager and/or image viewer.
<knome> jarnos, you can edit videos with a image editor (newest photoshop)
<jarnos> knome, image viewing is more common than image editing. Same goes for audio and video. 
<knome> sure. i do think that an os should include an image editor by default.
<jarnos> knome, what kind of image editor?
<knome> gimp is okay for me
<jarnos> BTW they use CinePaint to retouch frames of commercial movies. Xubuntu is featured in its old website: http://www.cinepaint.org/more/
<knome> "featured" well yeah.. :)
<jarnos> knome, nowdays ubuntu does not feature cinepaint; I mean it is unavailabe in repositories.
<knome> has it ever done it?
<knome> is cinepaint active, is the question i think
<knome> iirc it was a bit less actibe for a while at least
<jarnos> yes, it was in dapper.
<knome> dapper...
<jarnos> Maybe it will be back later: http://www.cinepaint.org/more/download.html
<jarnos> Some activity last year: http://www.cinepaint.org/
<knome> meh
<jarnos> As for those who want advanced image, audio and video editors, next Ubuntu Studio may be an attractive choice, and it will use Xfce as well: http://www.techworld.com.au/article/386600/ubuntu_studio_says_no_unity_adopts_xfce/
<knome> are you trying to advertise other os'es in the xubuntu developer channel? :)
<knome> anyway, why use ubuntu studio, since you can just install the same software in xubuntu... ta-dah!
<jarnos> Ubuntu Studio project lead is interested in developing working relations with the Xubuntu team: http://dullass.blogspot.com/2011/05/ubuntu-studio-moving-to-xfce.html
<jarnos> Unit193, for some reason, I have not got the email I sent to the list, or it is just not shown in gmail inbox.
<jarnos> knome, yes, you can install  ubuntustudio-graphics on Xubuntu. That includes Gimp.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-07-24
<wildintellect> I'm looking for some pointers on how the default menus are put together and ways to programatically alter them via scripts
<GridCube> wildintellect, probably ochosi is the one who can help you in that, he does all the theming things
<ochosi> wildintellect: what menus are you referring to specifically and how would you like to alter them?
<wildintellect> ochosi, I'm trying to add a 2nd menu next to the default applications menu - had it working on 10.04 but 11.04 seems to have changed a bunch
<GridCube> jejeje i love how you talk once every 12 hours each
<wildintellect> would have been back sooner, had I noticed the tab - too many tabs it ran off screen
<wildintellect> lines 116-232 are the old code that worked on 10.04 http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/browser/livedvd/gisvm/trunk/bin/install_desktop.sh
#xubuntu-devel 2012-07-16
<astraljava> o/
<astraljava> Sorry folks for missing all kinds of stuff lately. I'll try to pick up my own slack, so to speak.
<pleia2> astraljava: do we want to reschedule the QA meeting?
<astraljava> pleia2: Hi, I'm not sure there's an immediate need. I haven't had time/capability to progress on my TODOs, and the things you posted yesterday can be moved on without a meeting, IMHO. Would you insist on having one, though?
<pleia2> astraljava: nope, that's why I was checking in :)
<astraljava> Ok. :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-07-17
<thauriswulfa> How do I open webdisk in xubuntu? Tried thunar but nothing happens after authentication.
<thauriswulfa> sorry posted in wrong channel
<knome> astraljava, ?
<knome> hey scott-work :)
<pleia2> everyone stopped talking in here because you started looking for a doc lead
<knome> i didn't say "doc lead"... :)
<pleia2> uh huh
<pleia2> :)
<knome> and yes, i agree, we really should get it forward
<knome> my thoughts are "just start"
<knome> just start with writing stuff to wiki now, with the people who are willing to write
<pleia2> sounds good
<knome> we can worry about converting to docbook later
<pleia2> once it's on the wiki we can then work on getting it somewhere more formal
<knome> yes.
<pleia2> yeah, that
<knome> if we don't have content, it doesn't matter if we had the best docbook experts ready to work 24/7
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> do you have any ideas on how to structure stuff?
<knome> well, to be honest, the ubuntu wiki is just way too slow
<knome> i'd like it to work faster, and i'd really like to use it, but it's REALLY slow.
<pleia2> yeah, we use google docs for the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter (wiki is just our publishing place)
<knome> i'm even wondering if somebody (*cough* pleia2 *cough*) would be willing to set up a temp wiki
<knome> or something
<pleia2> well, I did that for ubuntu women
<pleia2> can do for this too
<knome> i think etherpad would be wonderful... as long as we can make sure the data is secured
<knome> but a wiki works too, really
<knome> generally, avoiding (file-)locks would be awesome
<pleia2> I'm not so experienced with configuring etherpad, and apparently a poorly configured one is a disaster :)
<knome> i suppose the lite version isn't quite stable yet, and the old version is just really a memory hog
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> is there any wiki that would allow multiple editors per-time?
<pleia2> I don't think so
<knome> does for example, mediawiki support multiple editors, if you edit just a part of the page?
<pleia2> not that I'm aware of
<knome> (i'm not suggesting to use mediawiki, but i'm thinking if *anybody* is doing that, even in some weird way)
<knome> ok, so pretty much any wiki would go
<pleia2> ubuntu wiki uses moin, I've set it up before, so I'm inclined to go that way
<Unit193> Bleh, moin...
<knome> pleia2, dokuwiki isn't bad, and it's easy to set up
<pleia2> Unit193: you're not even on the doc team!
<knome> Unit193, yeah, shut up
<knome> :<
<Unit193> pleia2: \o/
<Unit193> :D
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> wait, the long testcase is reviewed now?
<pleia2> I think so
<knome> yay
<pleia2> we made lots of changes
<pleia2> we == astraljava
<knome> hehe, yeah
<knome> under my guidance, naturally
<knome> :P
<pleia2> naturally
<knome> well, yeah, most of it came from our sprint
<knome> from either one of us
<knome> even if astraljava went to zombie mode
<knome> "wait, what did i/you say in the last 30 mins?"
<pleia2> so do we actually know where on launchpad our docs live?
<knome> no.
<pleia2> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-doc is old
<knome> so, is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Long the latest "long" version now?
<knome> and anything under Testing/TestingInfo can be deleted?
<knome> well, the short page is, but are we ready to dump the long version too?
<pleia2> I think, yes to all
<knome> great!
<knome> i deleted the TestingInfo pages with meaningful messages.
<knome> what are the "HardwareProfile" pages?
<knome> oh, that's some kind of guide how to create one?
<knome> is the one under "short" the same as directly under "testing" ?
<knome> where is hobgoblin when you need him
<pleia2> https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<pleia2> and it's in docbook
<knome> ok.
<pleia2> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu
<pleia2> so what we need is someone who can coordinate getting what we have now out of xubuntu-docs in docbook and on that wiki for people to edit, and then back into the package
<pleia2> or someone who has a better idea than doing any of this at all with a wiki :)
<knome> copy-paste?
<pleia2> maybe one of the folks who volunteered to help with documentation can do this
<knome> well
<knome> the thing is
<knome> i'm not sure if we should have the exact same structure as we had before
<pleia2> could copy/paste from the .html output, tediously
<knome> or if we need to cover all the same stuff now
<knome> or if something is lacking
<pleia2> yeah, but I think we should let it evolve from what we have now
<knome> probably, but how to track/decide what do drop?
<knome> just lots of mail to -devel
<knome> "i'd like to drop this"
<pleia2> and maybe some meetings
<knome> "i think we shouldn't keep this"
<knome> we could probably get a new mailing list up relatively easily
<knome> US did that a while ago
<knome> if we don't want to flood the -devel list, i mean
<pleia2> I hate new mailing lists :)
<knome> me too.
<knome> but i'm not sure if i like flooding -devel either
<pleia2> and I don't think it'll be years of high traffic, this is a pretty major overhaul
<knome> yes.
<pleia2> I actually wouldn't mind seeing more traffic on the list
<pleia2> QA stuff too
<knome> yeah.
<knome> well, maybe that's fine then.
<pleia2> my lunch break is wrapping up, we can talk at meeting in the morning
<pleia2> (then later, airplane!)
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> see you, and have fun meanwhile
<knome> i'll be away from thu to sun
<knome> no, make that fri-sun
<knome> but i'll be around at the meeting tomorrow, for sure
<pleia2> I'll have internet while at the conference thu-saturday, but who knows how much I'll be around
<knome> :)
<knome> i don't have internet when i'm off
<knome> so, i'll really be off fri-sun :D
<pleia2> biggest thing is making sure we can get the alpha3 out hte door
<knome> ye
<knome> s
<knome> btw...
<knome> we probably want to take part in 12.04.1 ?
<pleia2> oh yeah, probably
<knome> i'll sign that off then.
<pleia2> I don't know how though :)
<knome> i know
<knome> done
<pleia2> it's what we told people to wait for if they were doing 10.04 > 12.04 upgrades
<pleia2> anyway, workies now
<knome> see you!
<Unit193> Adios!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-07-18
<astraljava> knome: How is that different from my _normal_ mode, exactly? Wait, don't answer that.
<knome> astraljava, :)
<knome> astraljava, what you doing today?
<mr_pouit> jockey-gtk is going away in quantal (replaced by a tab in software-properties-gtk)
<knome> aha
<knome> not the worst news
<mr_pouit> so now you can't find additional drivers in the menu under "additional drivers" but under "software sources"
<knome> well, yeah, that sucks
<mr_pouit> which is *definitely* an improvement(!)
<knome> but at least it's not incorporated in USC or so
<mr_pouit> (that's called the mpt-i-don't-need-to-justify touch)
<knome> maybe we should rethink the menu item name.
<mr_pouit> we can't if we want it to be translated :P
<mr_pouit> (unless we set up translations on lp)
<knome> maybe ubuntu in general should rethink
<knome> :P
<knome> maybe something like "software (sources) and drivers"
<knome> or we might be able to call s-p-g with the specific tab open?
<knome> that shouldn't be too hard, and i think i could get somebody to hack that in.
<astraljava> knome: I was meaning to go to jussi's, but I'm not sure when I can actually get there. Work is being nightmarish today.
<knome> astraljava, in that case you're probably not coming here either :)
<astraljava> Most likely not. :)
<knome> hf anyway
<knome> you attending the meeting?
<astraljava> I may, but not too sure if I can pay it any attention.
<knome> mmh.
<astraljava> Like I said, this is living hell now (yea I know that is _not_ what I said...)
<knome> :|
<knome> hope it gets better
<astraljava> It will, now that support lines are down for the day, but the customers still left me like gazillion things to finish.
<knome> blah :|
<astraljava> But an update, I'll be meeting Jussi downtown instead of going to their place. So it's still open for the left of the night.
<knome> not right? :P
<astraljava> He's seeing a friend, and since I don't have any money, I won't be staying anywhere for a considerable time anyhow.
<astraljava> No, not right.
<astraljava> Center, if anything.
 * knome didn't have anything specific in mind
<knome> just that if you wanted to sit down and chat, play or sth :)
<knome> oh, and an update from my side.
<knome> i'll be off fri-mon, not sun, as i said before
<knome> Unit193, you going to be at the meeting today?
<astraljava> Wait, are _we_ having a meeting today, too? I thought somehow you were referring to the QA meeting.
<knome> yes, we are.
<knome> and yes, it's in 53 mins.
<astraljava> Oh, *oops*.
<knome> well. that's life ;)
 * astraljava seems to have lost it.
<knome> we probably should decide about a3
<knome> and there's some QA stuff in the agenda
 * astraljava frowns
<micahg> knome: I'll be in and out for the meeting
<knome> micahg, ok :)
<knome> astraljava, so, final verdict? in or out? :P
<knome> pleia2, good morning sunshine!
<knome> people here for the meeting?
<knome> so?
<knome> :P
<astraljava> o/
<knome> oh hai
<knome> so, are you in or out?
<knome> :)
<astraljava> Though I'm not much of a use at the moment.
<knome> or both
 * pleia2 yawns and mutters
<astraljava> I'll be around.
<knome> yeah. i'm still proposing to have an informal meeting
<knome> to avoid the meeting bureaucracy
<knome> (if it looks like there isn't really attendees, i mean)
<knome> i'll pick up my coffee
<astraljava> Yup.
<pleia2> even my cat has sleepy eyes
<knome> :D
<astraljava> Isn't that the same approx. 18 hours of any given day?
<knome> you must be really tired then.
<knome> astraljava, we are going to release alpha3, right?
<knome> micahg, any reason not to go for alpha3?
<astraljava> What am I, a release manager now? *rolls eyes*
<knome> astraljava, i was asking for QA POV
<astraljava> But I'd assume as much, yes.
<astraljava> Yes I got it. :)
<knome> yes, i'm all for releasing it (and getting and doing dome tests for it!)
<astraljava> I just installed Studio a couple days ago, and since it's relying so much on Xubuntu, I'd say it's a safe choice.
<micahg> o/
<astraljava> But, I noticed a lot of bugmail activity just recently.
<knome> pleia2, i'd consider the informal meeting very productive if we got to set up the wiki and sent an email to the list
<astraljava> And I haven't had time to go through them all.
<micahg> I don't see a reason not to release alpha3
<knome> great
<micahg> there are a few questions though
<micahg> 1.  Image size, are we sticking with CDs?
<knome> yes
<micahg> 2. Defaults, has this been finalized?
<mr_pouit> (we've been oversized since the beginning though)
<knome> defaults regarding what
<micahg> mr_pouit: right :)
<micahg> knome: applications
<knome> how much are we over?
<mr_pouit> 20~40M I think
<pleia2> 20M on the 64-bit last I saw
<knome> micahg, nope. is there a deadline other than some virtual milestone, or FF
<micahg> 20-40MB on the live images
<astraljava> alternate i386 12MB, amd64 20MB.
<knome> what if we dropped gimp from the default installation?
<micahg> knome: no, but the earlier, the better testing we get I guess
<pleia2> knome: gasp
<astraljava> desktop i386 22MB, amd64 38MB (!)
<knome> i know that dragged some people to xubuntu, but it's taking a lot of spae
<micahg> knome: that would do it, but that's something people love :)
<knome> but again, they can install it from the repositories
<knome> gimp isn't really lightweight
<micahg> knome: if we're sticking with a CD, I can try to pare it down this weekend
<micahg> knome: Xubuntu isn't about lightweight :)
<knome> micahg, yes, we would like to have a cd, thanks!
<knome> micahg, you are correct..
<pleia2> let's leave dropping gimp as the nuclear option ;)
<micahg> but we're stuck with too many stack, GTK2/3, python2/3, webkitgtk1.0/3.0
<knome> i'm still not sure about gimp; i'd LOVE to have something else instead, but just dropping it would work for me too
<knome> micahg, can we drop python2, or is that an xfce requirement?
<knome> micahg, or, "what is there that's making is stick with python 2?"
<micahg> knome: well, we can see about porting stuff we need to python3, idk what actually uses it
<knome> definitely.
<micahg> gimp uses it :)
<knome> awwh!
<knome> will you port gimp to python 3?
<knome> :]
<micahg> nope
<knome> or drop gimp and python 2... >:)
<micahg> oh, about screen locking, lightdm has support for it, but we need a way to show the preferences in xfce4-settings
<knome> that shouldn't be too hard?
<knome> bluesabre_, up for a small task? :)
<micahg> idk, mr_pouit would know more about that
<knome> i'd imagine that can't be seriously hard.
<mr_pouit> oh nice
<knome> micahg, the city?
<knome> mr_pouit, ^
<knome> (that's it for the bad joke, typoing...)
<mr_pouit> xfce4-settings can launch a binary anyway, we're not forced to do the integration into the settings's window like other xfce components
<knome> that's what i was thinking.
<knome> micahg, i'll try push to get the "new default apps" stuff ready for beta1, if at all possible
<micahg> knome: feature freeze would be better, but yeah
<knome> is that before b1?
<micahg> well, it's all about the same time anyways
<micahg> yes
<knome> ah, then ff
<micahg> also, what about 12.04.1, anything need fixing for that?
<knome> some theming stuff at least.
<knome> i need to check that with ochosi before he goes away (fri)
<knome> ochosi, can you gather a list of what theming stuff we need to fix for 12.04.1 - ta
<knome> micahg, anyway most of that stuff ^ is ready already, just need pushing
<micahg> knome: ok, what about bugs
<micahg> Bug #962469 is bad and needs to be fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 962469 in blueman (Ubuntu Precise) "blueman-applet crashed with KeyError in card_cb(): 'bluez.path'" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/962469
<micahg> I've emailed the upstream dev without success
<knome> don't know what else i can do but try to contact them
<bluesabre_> knome: Porting GIMP to Python3?  As awesome as that would be, I'll have to decline.  :D
<knome> bluesabre_, ahh, no
<knome> bluesabre_, add screen locking preferences (lightdm) to xfce-settings-manager
<bluesabre_> knome: Is there an app that does that, or do I need to develop that app?
<bluesabre_> knome: Or are you talking about adding an entry to the settings?
<bluesabre_> Because that would be easy :)
<astraljava> knome: Need anything from me? I'm gonna move in a few minutes.
<knome> astraljava, in what sense need?
<astraljava> For this bastard formation of a meeting.
<knome> bluesabre_, well, an app should be created to handle those; it can be integrated or separate, as mr_pouit said
<knome> astraljava, no, i don't
<astraljava> Ok, thanks.
<knome> astraljava, have "fun" meeting jussi
<knome> :]
<astraljava> I'll only collect some stuff he has from me/for me, and head home ASAP.
<knome> heh :)
<knome> ok, fair enough
<astraljava> But I'll tell him your "warm regards".
<knome> hehe
<knome> please do... :)
<bluesabre_> knome: I'll look into it
<bluesabre_> knome: What settings do we need for it?
<micahg> bluesabre_: Ubuntu just has, on/off, lock screen after, and require password toggle
<bluesabre_> Oh, if it's already in Ubuntu, that will make it easy
<bluesabre_> I'll check it out today
<knome> bluesabre_, fantastic
<knome> after this cup of coffee, i'm off to shower.
<pleia2> docs?
<knome> pleia2, we can do that before or after.
<pleia2> ok, so this is where we left off with docs https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008243.html & https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Documentation
<knome> yes
<knome> as we discussed yesterday, i think we should just set up something where people can edit the documentation
<pleia2> yesterday I set up a basic moinmoin (same as ubuntu wiki) install on my server that people can use for collaborating on docs
<knome> and send an email to the mailing list
<knome> great!
<pleia2> the original docs can be found here, which people should probably use as a baseline: https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<pleia2> they're in docbook, but if people are scared of that they can just go to menu > help and read the .html files on their own system
<pleia2> http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu is the collaboration space
<pleia2> so yeah, we need to draft an email that will empower and inspire ;)
<knome> http://typewith.me/p/RT4qAanipe
<pleia2> people don't want to be the first one making a change, generally
<pleia2> oh, I did have one question dev-ish related to documentation
<pleia2> in the docbook we have a section like:
<knome> ok
<pleia2>                 <title>Xubuntu &distro-rev; Documentation</title>
<knome> hmm... right?
<pleia2> &distro-rev; should be updated with magic, but I don't know how that's done (and it wasn't done with 12.04)
<knome> should we even use that?
<pleia2> I think so
<micahg> it could be done
<knome> i'm not sure if that is *vital* :)
<pleia2> knome: having a version number at all?
<knome> pleia2, yeah.
<knome> pleia2, because, naturally, the docs should be the same version as the distro
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> pleia2, if they aren't the version number is useless anyway
<pleia2> apparently :)
<knome> but i don't mind if the version number is there either
<knome> just thinking if it makes sense to take time to get it working, if it's not really trivial
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> ok, I think that's all I had
<knome> :)
<pleia2> oh wait, I wasn't done, look - someone made a pretty banner for us! http://www.facebook.com/xubuntuusers
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> he's planning on doing a similar one for G+ too, wants to bring our branding more "together"
<knome> it's somewhat blurry though
<pleia2> if you click on it it's sharper, I think it's facebook mangling
<knome> weird.
<knome> looks fine though
<knome> maybe i'd make the bg of the bottom section a bit grey, to separate from the bar below
<knome> if they need anything graphical, just tell them to contact me and i'll happily provide.
<pleia2> I can put you in touch with the designer, he had ideas of putting together a branding pallet that we could extend to other social media stuff
<knome> sure
<pleia2> but it's nice to have more artists interested :)
<knome> if he can join irc, that would be ideal, but email works as well
<knome> but note that i will be away for fri-mon
<knome> and probably most of tomorrow night too
<pleia2> will do
<knome> (wife's holiday - 3 weeks!)
<pleia2> is she going somewhere or can we put her to work on something? :)
<knome> lol
<pleia2> Mrs. knome can be our docs lead
<knome> i'm sure she thinks i'm doing enough for FOSS for our family :D
<pleia2> actually yeah, I think my fiance feels the same
<knome> fair enough, i think.. :D
<knome> so, how does the email look now?
<pleia2> the draft is looking ok, I'm heading out to the airport in 4 hours
<knome> hehe, great minds...
<pleia2> mind reading \o/
<knome> i'm thinking we should let it simmer a bit in our heads, then come back and send it
<knome> and we need to add the example sections, as i promised there!
<pleia2> ok, that's fine
<knome> whatever we do, we should make it easy to navigate around the wiki
<pleia2> I'll see how my internet access is this weekend (I think OSCON causes a sink hole of bad access in the whole city of Portland when it happens though)
<knome> mmh
<knome> well, i will be completely offline for the weekend, so.. :)
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> maybe we can postpone sending all the way to monday, so we'd have people respond to questions
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> at least i'd feel bad if people started asking and i wasn't here, and the rest were like "umm..."
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i copied the draft as it is now to HDD just to be sure it's safe
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> np
<knome> thank you
<knome> ...aaaand i'm out of coffee
<knome> shower :)
<knome> see you in a bit
<knome> (if you're still around; if not, have fun)
<knome> ->
<pleia2> see you
<pleia2> enjoy :)
<ochosi> sry, no way i could've made the meeting
<knome> hey ochosi :)
<knome> np
<knome> we were quite productive anyway
<ochosi> i mean you know the news anyway (i think)
<knome> which ones? :P
<knome> i'm just trying to send an email summery
<knome> *summary
<ochosi> greybird and albatross ported to gtk3's default engine (only bluebird still needs unico)
<ochosi> first translations land in catfish, release will hopefully follow shortly
<knome> yeah, we didn't really follow the meeting agenda
<knome> we just had an informal one
<knome> see your inbox
<ochosi> and parole is getting in very nice shape
<ochosi> btw, could you do the finnish translation of catfish?
<knome> sure.
<ochosi> it's really just a few rather simple strings
<knome> was it on LP?
<ochosi> yes
<ochosi> what's with the settings-manager and sean exactly?
<ochosi> he's doing the technical side of it?
<knome> since we're dropping xscreensaver, we need to have a lock dialog
<knome> lightdm can do that, but we need to have the settings editable somewhere
<ochosi> it already can do that?
<ochosi> that'd be awesome
<knome> so i'm told :P
<ochosi> well
<knome> so anyway, how do i translate catfish again?
<ochosi> i heard about the _plans_ for that
<knome> :)
<knome> just hassle with the .pos?
<ochosi> dl this and translate the strings in the file: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/catfish-search/trunk/view/head:/po/catfish.pot
<ochosi> then save as fi.pot and send to bluesabre_ via email or something like that
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll do that
<knome> eh
<ochosi> sry, took me a while to find the file/link
<knome> what's with "Do you "
<knome> second last translation
<ochosi> yeah, not sure :) i just translated it
<knome> that's not so easy in finnish...
<ochosi> i'd say translate all the other strings
<ochosi> there are more cumbersome ones
<ochosi> i think it needs review
<ochosi> but dropping strings isn't really an issue
<ochosi> partial translation is better than no translation...
<ochosi> btw, do you have suggestions for the "open location" dialog in parole?
<ochosi> (screenshot coming up)
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-07182012-063122pm.php
<ochosi> atm it's very plain and simple
<knome> hmm.
<knome> are you suggesting there could be more to that?
<ochosi> sidenote: i looked into the gmb column-align changes you proposed. that would need another extra-shimmer-patch. i'd rather wait with that until our current delta is narrowed by quentin
<ochosi> yeah, prolly, not sure
<knome> sure. i'd want that upstream, definitely
<ochosi> e.g. vlc has a few lines of URL examples
<ochosi> gmb: ok, it's just gonna take some more time, squentin is really busy atm
<micahg> knome: jockey's been fixed (pitti updated the seed), it'll get into the archive in the next meta upload
<knome> micahg, fixed in what way? :)
<ochosi> i really need ppl to test greybird and albatross from git in quantal btw! (ideally before i do the next release, which i wanna do around the weekend)
<micahg> knome: dropped, it's in software-properties now
<knome> "fixed" == dropped
<knome> ok! ;)
<hobgoblin> ochosi: I can do that over the next couple of days if it helps - especially if you point me at things you specifically want checking
<ochosi> hobgoblin: absolutely! well i'd say start a few gtk3 apps from the console and send me the output, and then just look for visual glitches...
<hobgoblin> ok 
<hobgoblin> by the way I'm using quantal all the time now so - stable for me 
<ochosi> great
<ochosi> then just pull the themes
<hobgoblin> ok
<ochosi> oh and please mv them to /usr/share/themes
<hobgoblin> :)
<hobgoblin> lol
<ochosi> i've experienced smaller glitches without that
<ochosi> (although i can't explain why)
<hobgoblin> ok
<hobgoblin> point me where they are please 
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tarball/master
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Albatross/tarball/masterD
<ochosi> gah
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Albatross/tarball/master
<hobgoblin> k
<knome> what did "deep search" mean again?
<ochosi> knome: i translated it to "intensive search" in german
<ochosi> knome: it means: search without the locate cache (with find)
<knome> hmmh
<knome> ok...
<ochosi> so if your cache is out-of-date...
<knome> i'm going to translate it to "power search"
<knome> or actually "powerful search"
<hobgoblin> knome: powerful search would sound/look odd in English 
<knome> hobgoblin, makes sense in finnish though
<knome> more than literal translation
<hobgoblin> :)
<hobgoblin> ochosi: ok - got them both - will run with albatross for a day then greybird for a day - it would be a help for me if I had some idea of which are gtk3 apps 
<ochosi> hobgoblin: sure, evince, simplescan, software-sources, gnome-games
<ochosi> ("sure" is not application btw, just a word i threw in there for affirmatory reasons)
<hobgoblin> lol
<hobgoblin> cheers :)
<ochosi> most likely there are more
 * ochosi can't remember what is there exactly in the default app-set
<hobgoblin> things like synaptic - gtk2 ?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> well ideally you won't see the difference with greybird and albatross ;)
<hobgoblin> :)
<hobgoblin> give me a couple of days to play with them and I will report back to you on Friday
<hobgoblin> or earlier if I can 
<ochosi> great, thanks a bunch in advance!
<hobgoblin> welcome 
<ochosi> btw, with greybird i expect warnings
<ochosi> hopefully no errors or visual breakage though
<hobgoblin> ok
<ochosi> greybird's gtk3 is currently built for gtk3.4
<ochosi> but i'll add in the changes for gtk3.5 after you've tested
<hobgoblin> ok
<Unit193> knome: Nope.
<Unit193> And if it's worth anything, I'd give a plus to renameing Software Properties, and putting a launcher directly to drivers as well.
<pleia2> tweeted the meeting summary links ;)
<knome> pleia2, tara
 * pleia2 suddenly remembers why she doesn't like managing documentation
<knome> pleia2, that is?
<pleia2> formats suck :(
<knome> heh. :)
<knome> let's try to go with minimal formatting.
<pleia2> should just be easy for everyone to write it <--- over here, and hten we commit it and ship it over here -->
<knome> wut
<knome> :D
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> you lost me
<knome> must be those arrows.
<pleia2> we need a wysiwyg editor that isn't horrible :)
<knome> hah.
<pleia2> I think what needs to be done is the team decides the structure, decides what they need, and they just use the wiki to copy over stuff that they need to edit together
<knome> yeah. but they probably need to use the wiki to cooperate on that
<knome> (or "ownerships" of specific sections anyway)
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> that's probably something we want to partly set up already for the people
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I had grand plans of actually copying all the docs over, but then I stopped with the crazy
<knome> well, yeah
<knome> nobody should batch-do that
<knome> i wouldn't mind if *eventually* everything is in the wiki
<knome> but i figured out it's just not sane to do that yourself
<knome> you should've asked me!
<pleia2> there are some html to moin scripts out there so I was hoping I could do it with some scripting since I have access to the server itself
<knome> aha
<pleia2> but all the conversion scripts are not awesome
<knome> i'm sure they aren't
 * pleia2 gives meetingology a cookie
<knome> what if we just copied a few pages, then let the doc team handle the rest?
<knome> even if they messed up, we can just fix it.
<knome> and maybe somebody wants to do the mindless copy-paste now and then.
<pleia2> yeah, the first index.html pretty much links to everything, so if we copy that over we'll actually be doing ok
<pleia2> maybe the group can start with that and strike out what they don't want, so we don't even need to copy some stuff over
<knome> yeah, but how much time should we give for that?
<pleia2> I don't know
<knome> because if we want to do that to avoid copying unnecessary stuff, that needs to be finished before we copy anything
<knome> oh well
<pleia2> well for now we copy the table of contents
<knome> are you around tomorrow?
<pleia2> see what people think is silly about it
<pleia2> not much tomorrow
<pleia2> we'll talk again on Sunday I think :)
<knome> not really :|
<pleia2> or Monday!
<knome> i'm back on monday actually
<knome> and probably late
<pleia2> have a nice awaytime
<knome> well, that's earlyish your time... :)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> will try to ;]
<knome> anyway, let's get back to all this then
<knome> see you!
 * pleia2 nods
 * knome goes to bed
<pleia2> see you!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-07-19
<elfy> ochosi: I've run albatross and evince/gnome-mahjjong/abiword/simple-scan/sol from a terminal - if there any other's that you want me to look at let me know
<elfy> but I have no idea how to tell if something is gtk3 or not :)
<GridCube> knome, :) when you are online please ping me, i would like to discuss the topics i have as asignee on the roadmap please :)
<knome> GridCube, i'm here, but i don't know for how long
<GridCube> i want to know what should i do about the webcam program point and why did the topic about the display manager changed, i havent seen that poping on the meeting, or maybe i miss it
<Unit193> knome: All good here?  Should I just add the X-XFCE; to the current desktop files and diff them?
<knome> Unit193, umm. i don't know. you should be in touch with mr_pouit probably on the technical side :)
<knome> GridCube, since we don't have a webcam app - just rationalize why we need one, and propose an app :)
<knome> GridCube, doesn't need to be too thorough review, but something that people can grasp on a meeting
<GridCube> :D okay
<GridCube> ok
<knome> display manager? lightdm?
<knome> oh, monitor management
<knome> let me fix my firefox first
<Unit193> :3
<knome> GridCube, mmh, right. astraljava is looking if we can just improve the xfce-display-dialog instead of using an external app
<knome> GridCube, the item is on the agenda, but we haven't got there yet
<GridCube> ok :) i just wanted to know why it changed from adding arandr to the default to do a lot of work modding the display dialog :D
<knome> i understand he hasn't got very far with it yet - but i think if we can do that, it would be more optimal than any other tool - if we don't get that done, we can just install arandr
<knome> well, once the default dialog can handle that monitor stuff, we can depend on that.
<knome> (and no need for external stuff)
<GridCube> yes i think it would be nice if the default display dialog would be actually good
<knome> aiui, it doesn't need too much *new* code, just reusing stuff.
<GridCube> :) ok so ill do the webcam stuff 
<knome> but i might be wrong here too and get beaten by astraljava later.
<GridCube> jejeje
<knome> astraljava, i think we should postpone https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-application-sets for R.
<knome> astraljava, tell me what you think
<knome> ok, i'm off. see you all later - possibly tomorrow morning for a short while, or on monday/tuesday
<knome> have fun!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-07-20
<astraljava> knome: FeatureFreeze is a little over month ahead, still. I'd like to keep it for a little while, still.
<astraljava> knome: Oh, and the display thingie is missing the position calculations, the UI part is done.
<pleia2> xubuntu was mentioned when I received the award, and is here: http://www.oscon.com/oscon2012/public/schedule/detail/25039
<Unit193> Now I will say congrats.   Congrats pleia2!
<pleia2> thank you :)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-15
<skellat> More about XMir: http://blog.cooperteam.net/2013/07/xmir-performance.html
<knome> uhoh, i probaly can't make the thursday meeting
<knome> probably too
<elfy> knome: neither will I be
<Unit193> knome: You see my pingies?
<JCD> Question: Ho can I tel which packages wont be supported in Xubuntu 12.04 LTS after April 2015 anymore? I there a query I could do in ashell?
<Unit193> *Some* packages tell you with apt-cache show $packagename, but most won't.
<JCD> So how can one find out which wans require manual upgrades and may pose a thred to system security?
<JCD> Umm... threat. Sry
<Unit193> It'd just not be supported, at that point you should upgrade.
<JCD> :-( But the base OS users Canonical repositories so I suggest you take your packages aout of the repos or something. Do you wanna let them sit there or what is the plan?
<Unit193> It's the same repos, so things just don't get updated as it's the end of life for the application in that version.  It's still a bit off though.
<Unit193> !eol
<ubottu> End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
<knome> Unit193, which ones?
<Unit193> LP code/diff.
<knome> probably...
<knome> yeah, i looked at them
<knome> iirc i thought "ok"
<Unit193> Good enough to merge request or want changes?  (Again, not sure on translations.)
<knome> you know you could push to non-+junk?
<knome> re: translations, i've no idea if that's done right either
<knome> if you looked for an example, i'd say going with that is fine
<knome> if it doesn't work, let's fix it,
<Unit193> Then I have to come up with another name, xubuntu-default-settings/pooky may not be nice. :P   And, I generally put everything in +junk (or not on LP)
<knome> jockey-
<knome> err,
<knome> jockey-appmenu
<knome> is a good name
<knome> or
<knome> saucy-improvements
<Unit193> Soooo, you can't merge anything in junk?  What a load of it...
<Unit193> knome: Should I add a reviewer? :P
<ochosi> yeah, you can
<ochosi> e.g. mr_pouit 
<ochosi> (he can merge things to xubuntu-default-settings, i can't)
<knome> i suppose that's because the branches are ~xubuntu-dev/
<knome> not because you have stuff in +junk
<ochosi> yup
<knome> and i think you need to upload to non-+junk to be able to do merge requests properly, but i might be wrong
<Unit193> Done, but I'm scared of him. ;P
<knome> awesome
<Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-default-settings/+merge/174852 turns out you can move branches.
<knome> woot, i don't remember being able to do so
<knome> good for you/us
<knome> Unit193, approved that with type "xpl", so he knows he's ok to go ahead :P
<Unit193> Heh, thanks.  Now I should find something else to break. :D
<ochosi> Unit193: so with your first merge-request in Xubuntu that means you won't be allowed to "shut up" anymore ;)
<elfy> I'll witness that
<knome> yep
<knome> and this is a logged channel
<Unit193> ochosi: Hrm, let me remove that merge request then...
<knome> Unit193, see, this was our plan from the beginning? 
<Unit193> knome: Docs don't count as merges? ;)
<knome> Unit193, not in the same scale :P
<jjfrv8> knome, speaking of merges, I have a question on the precise docs.
<knome> jjfrv8, great!
<knome> jjfrv8, if it's about your first one, it's pending on me investigating something related to that
<Unit193> Now, the problem with this is that it's easy to remove software-properties-gtk, and the launcher will still exist...
<jjfrv8> Yeah, that was it.
<jjfrv8> So if I want to work on chapter 3, I should either revert my commit or pull another copy rev 56?
<jjfrv8> * or rev 56
<jjfrv8> *of
<knome> jjfrv8, if you will, please keep the merge proposal as it is and get a new copy
<Noskcaj> Also speaking f the docs, why do we only translate them to 4 languages?
<knome> jjfrv8, that way i don't need to review the stuff on that one again
<jjfrv8> OK
<knome> Noskcaj, because that's how many languages people are translating them into
<Noskcaj> ok
<knome> jjfrv8, you can delete your local copy if you wish, as long as you keep the launchpad one intact
<jjfrv8> Ok.  What if I have to change the same entities again for chapter 3. Will that be a problem?
<knome> umm, in *that* case i would say it's better to do a new pull/merge proposal
<knome> i suppose that will collectively keep our efforts at minimum
<jjfrv8> Well a new pull won't have the entity changes I made for Chapter 2.
<knome> i mean
<knome> you can go ahead and cancel the merge proposal
<knome> and keep on working with the same branch
<jjfrv8> Alright. I'll do that.
<knome> and just do a new merge proposal later
<knome> i'll just re-review that, because otherwise i would have to do conflict resolving and use my brain :P
<jjfrv8> Yeah, I have to conserve the brain power too.
<knome> i'll try to get the answer for the other docs question as soon as possible so we can actually get on with the merges
<knome> tbe, the problem is that i don't know for certain how i should handle the changelog, if you're wondering
<knome> :)
<jjfrv8> I had a question on that too but I think I'll hold off on that for now
<knome> jjfrv8, answer: add things you want to mention in the changelog in your commit messages
<knome> jjfrv8, another answer: after that is done, run 'dch -a' before committing and pushin to update the changelog yourself
<jjfrv8> Ok.  It was the dch thing that had me confused.  I'll just put it in the commit message, then.
<knome> yeah, that's what the question is...
<knome> i don't know if our SRU version needs to be "13.10-really12.04" or "12.04"
<Unit193> Version 11.10.0 (precise)  so it just needs to be higher than that.
<knome> Unit193, how certain you are?
<knome> Unit193, (we can always fix it later if you're pretty certain...)
<Unit193> dpkg-wise pretty, Ubuntu-wise not as much.
<knome> i'm also considering what would be the correct place to check
<knome> #ubuntu-devel ?
<knome> if that's it, i can do it tonight...
<knome> or maybe micahg, mr_pouit or xnox could confirm
<pleia2> GridCube: the only deviantart invite I have is expired
<pleia2> GridCube: can you invite again?
<GridCube> yes
<pleia2> ty
<GridCube> done
<GridCube> the only one who hasnt responded yet its reklan, but we do have enough people now in the group to start working whenever you feel like it
<pleia2> yeah, go for it
<pleia2> don't wait for me :) I am useless with art and stuff
<ochosi> GridCube: have you received any submissions yet or does "start working" mean start advertising it?
<pleia2> ochosi: latter
<GridCube> i recieved a few submissions yes, but i meant for the advertisement
<pleia2> ah, we haven't even told anyone yet! :)
<GridCube> P: exactly
<ochosi> ah i see :)
<knome> magazine contributors: be in touch with me or pleia2 to get your free magazine delivered.
<pleia2> I'm going to email all
<pleia2> collect them and send to sonny
<knome> i just sent simons address ;)
<pleia2> Noskcaj told me a couple of times that he was sending in the form, not sure what happened
<pleia2> your turn to nag :)
<knome> can't nag, he's not here.
<micahg> knome: Unit193: new docs for 12.04?  can be 12.04.x or if it's a straight backport from 13.04, 13.04.X~ubuntu12.04.1
<Unit193> micahg: It's more of an updated 11.x
<knome> micahg, we don't even have 12.04...
<pleia2> Unit193: no, backported of 12.10
<knome> no, backported from 13.1004
<knome> err
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> 13.04
<knome> the backspace key doesn't work
<pleia2> 11.x docs are so ancient we never want to see them again :)
<knome> but no, it's not a straight backport
<Unit193> pleia2: Ah, I thought it was updated stuff, alrighty.
<knome> Unit193, we want the new art goodies as well as the better written docs.
<GridCube> knome, you got the icon for showcase?
<knome> GridCube, i do but it's not at hand. please go ahead without it and i'll get it to you before friday
<GridCube> :) no problem
<micahg> I'd suggest for the docs prepare a new 12.04.x release, assuming there are major changes
<knome> micahg, there is no 12.04. there is 11.10 released in precise.
<knome> micahg, but re: packaging/changelog, would that release just go between the older and newer ones?
<micahg> knome: ok, maybe I can chat more about this tomorrow
<micahg> don't worry about the version for now, we'll figure it out
<knome> but sure, we can call it say, 12.04.3
<micahg> are the docs ready otherwise?
<knome> micahg, would like to get started with the changelog because otherwise we need to track it manually
<knome> micahg, nope, they are being worked on.
<micahg> knome: no, you can add changes, just don't worry about the version, just bump the .X at the end and mark it UNRELEASED and we'll figure out the final version before upload
 * micahg has to disappear again
<knome> micahg, umm, but that has a different set of changes than the saucy release
<knome> micahg, or do you mean create 12.04 and track changes under that? because that would make sense
<micahg> sure
<knome> okay, great
<knome> i'll do that then
<knome> thanks for confirming :)
<micahg> I meant if you're staring with the version in precise, just bump the version
<knome> yeah, the version in precise is 11.10.. :D
<micahg> so, start with 11.10.1 and we'll decide the final "version" before upload
<knome> oki oki ;)
<pleia2> knome: so, this next month or so is kind of crazy for me work+travel-wise
<knome> okay...
<pleia2> trying to prioritize tasks some, I want to get the stickers blog post out, and we'll be announcing GridCube's wallpaper thing
<knome> sure
<pleia2> also want to get xubuntu-website bugs triaged
<knome> can i help with those?
<pleia2> so you started on this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1191887
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1191887 in Xubuntu Website "Xubuntu download page has misleading 32/64 bit information" [High,Confirmed]
<pleia2> and I said "cannot do right now" do you remmeber where you left off?
<knome> hmph, not really
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1200467 should be easy
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1200467 in Xubuntu Website "Need to modernize language to remove reference to alternate installer" [High,Confirmed]
<pleia2> and I think we just need to bug someone on list to fire up a VM and help us update the screenshots for https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1170890
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1170890 in Xubuntu Website "http://xubuntu.org/upgrading/ is four releases old" [Medium,Confirmed]
<knome> that looks like two separate issues
<pleia2> yeah, they're all unrelated
<knome> but 12.04 still has alterante.
<knome> *alternate too
<knome> so that's a future bug.
<knome> or future item more exactly
<knome> re: memory requirements...
<knome> i don't know.
<knome> is it important for somebody to know they can *try* xubunty with 256MB?
<knome> *xubuntu
<knome> eg. if they're considering a new machine or so
 * pleia2 updates 1200467
<knome> or have an extra one that's not doing anything and they want to try xubuntu before installing it on their main computer?
<knome> yes, i know it's really rare that anybody has less than 512.
<knome> the alternate-part also needs to be removed from the system requirements (says alternate only needs 2gb disk)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-16
<pleia2> /opt/stack/nova/nova/scheduler/filters/compute_capabilities_filter.py
<pleia2> dur
<pleia2> wrong channel
<knome> heh
<knome> from which version we want to take the upgrade-screenshots?
<knome> are you updating the bug or not?:P
<pleia2> multitasking!
<knome> i kind of like the approach of http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop
<pleia2> good question re upgrading screenshots
<knome> the simple words "For extended support" and "For the latest features"
<knome> If you have a PC with the Windows 8 logo or UEFI firmware, choose the 64-bit download. Read more âº
<pleia2> it does feel silly to have them for oneiric > precise because it's a few releases old by now, but it's really relaly old now
<knome> that's not really what i gathered from the bug
<knome> it tells me that I need to get the 64-bit download if I am using UEFI firmware, and suggests 64-bit for "newer machines". This is good information.
<knome> there's no "newer machines" mentioned
<knome> and no "suggestion" really. if you have a win 8 machine, i suppose you *need* to get the 64-bit one
<knome> wow, non-mainbuntu downloads are buried deep down
<pleia2> heh, yeah
<knome> and it's even a bit misleading
<knome> "alternative downloads" then "past releases"
<pleia2> don't get me started :)
<knome> i will
<knome> even the description in the second isn't mentioning flavors
 * knome provokes pleia2 
<pleia2> :P
<knome> re 12... what about simply add "(for 12.04 only)" after alternate mentions?
<pleia2> +1
<knome> ok, i'll do that
<Unit193> Mainbuntu doesn't care about flavors, why get a different flavor when you can have the real one! ;P
<SkippersBoss_> real ???
<knome> Unit193, yeah yeah whatever. :)
<SkippersBoss_> woosh, and knome strikes again
<jjfrv8> knome, just did another push and merge proposal. Did chapters 2, 3 & 4.  Hope that's not too big a chunk at once.
<knome> jjfrv8, not at all. we even got the changelog stuff sorted out :)
<jjfrv8> Thought so.  Saw there was a rev 57.
<knome> jjfrv8, i'll get to our MP tomorrow, i'm heading to bed in a sec
<knome> s/our/your/
<jjfrv8> Yeah, pretty late for you.
<knome> well... last night was normal but the one before that i pulled an all-nighter ;)
<knome> anyway, i'm off to bed
<jjfrv8> Pleasant dreams
<knome> thanks, and to you too :)
<Unit193> Soo, jjfrv8 is going to end up doing the entire review?
<pleia2> knome: http://xubuntu.org/?p=1738&preview=true
<pleia2> feel free to edit (we can shrink images if we want :)), I'll publish tomorrow
<skellat> mr_pouit micahg: Riddell brought this up as an interesting discussion point: http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/26254.html
<elfy> knome: what did we decide we were going to do with testcases and fix committed/fix released? 
 * elfy can't remember 
<Noskcaj> I know for non-xubuntu stuff it's commited = in branch, released = visible on tracker
<elfy> think it's the same here
<elfy> just can't remember for sure
<JCD> THX, Unit193.
<JCD> However I wonder whether there is a list of all applications and packages that are Xubuntu specific. Is there no list documented somewhere or someone who pulls all the strings and can provide me with such a list?
<JCD> I just have to know which software to look at on April 30th 2015 when Xubuntu 12.04 LTS is not supported anymore (at least the Xubuntu specific parts). In case I don't know I have a bit of a problem since there is oftware installed probably which is not patched anymore until 2017 when the software in the canonical repos is EOL. do you know what I mean?
<bluesabre> JCD: the counts might be a bit different, but I am currently running a script that should show all packages maintained by xubuntu-devel, should finish in a few minutes
<bluesabre> JCD: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5881462/
<bluesabre> mrpouit, micahg, does that list seem correct ^ ?
<JCD> Oh!
<JCD> That's a good start. Thank you, bluesabre!
<JCD> :D
<JCD> Dear Xubuntu devs I suggest you to add such a list on your website for reference.
 * pleia2 wonders where such instructions could go
<JCD> Hm... thats a good question. I sw this on some pages of other distros like SystemRescueCD (e.g.: http://www.sysresccd.org/Detailed-packages-list). 
<JCD> http://xubuntu.org/ --> Support and Documentation --> https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs
<JCD> There I guess. One page in the ppendix could be called "Package List" or something like that. :-D
<pleia2> well we don't want to maintain a static list
<pleia2> documenting the for loop that bluesabre shared is the best best
<JCD> Yeah guess so. Maybe one can embellish that a bit and package it. Then I'd document the command to run e.g. `xubuntu-packages --list` or something.
<JCD> (Assuming that program could do even more in the future)
<JCD> Interestingly when entering `xubu[TAB][TAB]...` *nothing* appears. There is no xubuntu<foo> userland binary somewhere. This is interesting. ;-)
<pleia2> that's because xubuntu is a collection of things :)
<JCD> :-)
<JCD> Oh and I thought thewre are devs that wanna set their mark somewhere. Well if it was my distro there would be...
<JCD> funny things. :)
<pleia2> we've managed to gather a rather ego-less team in xubuntu
<Unit193> I prefer having others names on stuff, that way it don't come back to me. :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: That doesn't take into account gnumeric or abiword, do those get security updates?
<skellat> I vaguely remember Jorge Castro mentioning a script that spits out a list of packages and their end of support dates
<Unit193> update-manager-core: /usr/bin/ubuntu-support-status
<Unit193> You have 1680 packages (72.7%) supported until January 2014 (9m)
<JCD> oh ill check that as well.
<JCD> THX
<JCD> cu tomorro goo n1te
<Unit193> Good night.
<skellat> For example: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5881905/
<Unit193> "You have 13 packages (0.6%) that can not/no-longer be downloaded", but anyway, thinking we found the tool he was looking for.
<skellat> Unit193: Yeah, that's the one.  Sadly it wouldn't show up in an apropos search and I couldn't remember it.  It does need a manpage, too.
<skellat> The example shows my netbook running raring
<pleia2> Unit193: we haven't gotten any response from the Mir folks, right?
<Unit193> pleia2: Nope, not a one.
<pleia2> that's disappointing
<Unit193> I linked to output (on the pad now I think), and the response wasn't what I thought I'd get, though.
<pleia2> what output?
<Unit193> pleia2: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/07/12/%23ubuntu-mir.html#t01:49
<pleia2> ah
<Unit193> They've released 0.0.7, but not in the PPA yet so no new ISO.  Want me to ping you when it exists? (zsync file will be created for it, faster downloads and all.)
<knome> forestpi1kie, Noskcaj is right; committed = in branch, released = in tracker
<Noskcaj> yay
<skellat> Unit193 pleia2: Reading that log, I'm feeling less positive.  Apparently the reference frame we have of "older hardware" is most definitely not in any sort of alignment with the Mir team and that worries me.  All in all I hope we can do the go/no-go meeting as a Google Hangout so we can all literally sound off. :-)
<Unit193> Meh, not fond of my face being in front of everyone.  The one guy seemed to want full support of everything Xorg did, we've yet to see it work 50% of the time yet, though.
<skellat> Unit193: I just want to do the go/no-go NASA mission style where we all sound off as knome calls roll.  You can throw up an avatar of a buckeye perhaps.
<skellat> But at least this way we can say we tried and we can let folks at vUDS-1308 puzzle over what we were thinking
<skellat> vUDS-1308 would be the week after the go/no-go anyhow
<Noskcaj> Unit193, You don't have to use a webcam.
<Unit193> skellat: Well, generally minutes are handier, but anywho.  Should be able to get another spin up before then.
<skellat> Unit193: I look forward to testing it.  I really do.
<pleia2> skellat: heh, yeah, I bought the laptop I was testing on last year
<pleia2> it's not top of the line, but it's one of the newest systems I own
<pleia2> (it's actually bottom of the line)
<skellat> pleia2: That's where I'm saying our frame of reference as to "older systems" and that held by the Mir team may be severely out of alignment...and that is troublesome
<pleia2> $299 woo
<Unit193> skellat: Note, the log is about not having alpha support, no other tests than mine had that issue and as he also said, "That's a new one."
<skellat> Unit193: And how old is your kerosene-powered cheese grater?
<Unit193> It's a hand me down from a T-rex.
<Unit193> Release Date: 11/01/2004
<skellat> Ah
<skellat> Not a SPARC box, at least
<skellat> Or a NeXT cube or an SGI Indigo
<skellat> But just an older PC
<skellat> Crap, I've been not feeling well a good chunk of the day and I almost forgot to PING micahg or micahg-work about the apt-offline issue that needs to be integrated before A2 drops.
 * skellat runs to go be ill again
<Unit193> !tmi | ?
<ubottu> ?: Um thanks... We *really* did not need to know that...
<pleia2> knome: can you take a peek at my stickers blog post? http://xubuntu.org/?p=1738&preview=true
<pleia2> knome: I want to get this out because I also have an interview in the queue that I told them I'd get out this week
<pleia2> them == the person I interviewed
<knome> since i'm awake, sure
<pleia2> :)
<knome> wow, isn't that a lot of padding for some of the images?
<knome> and aren't they quite large
<pleia2> 18:27:57 < pleia2> feel free to edit (we can shrink images if we want :)), I'll publish tomorrow
<knome> heh
<knome> okay..
<knome> i suppose i should get my mouse then
<pleia2> I just downloaded the images from their site w/o editing, so yeah
<knome> gosh, i just started feeling sleepy
<knome> ;)
<pleia2> lol
 * knome makes sure he's dead sleepy until he heads back to bed
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_stickers/xubuntu-stickers.png
<knome> does that look any better?
<pleia2> yes, that's lovely
<knome> great
<knome> want to upload it or shall i?
<pleia2> you can
<knome> ok, just a sec
<pleia2> my internet connection is being grumpy
<knome> awwh
<knome> http://xubuntu.org/?p=1738&preview=true
<knome> i'm thinking we might want to say something about how they are not sized like that
<pleia2> "not to scale"
<knome> edited
 * pleia2 looks
<knome> i was a bit more verbal, but...
<pleia2> oh, that's good :)
<knome> hmm, did i lose one link at the end?
<pleia2> lost the Xubuntu stickers bundle link (didn't I have one? doh)
<pleia2> oh, forgot about this link http://www.unixstickers.com/xubuntu
<knome> relinked
<pleia2> maybe add before the bundle paragraph: Browse all Xubuntu stickers at: http://www.unixstickers.com/xubuntu
<knome> edited
<pleia2> perfect
<knome> re-edit to "To buy"
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> good
<knome> heh, the bundle has wonderful quantity discount
<knome> 5 or more items is already as low as 0.65$ ;)
<pleia2> haha
<knome> maybe we want to tell them to fix that before our news article?
<pleia2> I'll let them know
<knome> great
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> once I hear back I'll just hit publish
<knome> yup, sounds good
<knome> remember to tweet
 * knome goes checking what's up @Xubuntu
<knome> nothing really
<knome> boring tweets :P
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> was referring mostly to those which mentioned @Xubuntu
<knome> nothing interesting enough to retweet
<knome> some tweets about going debian 8 if xmir "infects" 14.04
<pleia2> gotta love fud
<knome> haha, yeah
<pleia2> I haven't tried it, but change is scary, sky is falling!
<knome> yup, it is
<knome> any minute now...
<skellat>  /join #freenode
<micahg> knome: ^^ you predicted that?
<skellat> micahg: I'm suspicious now that knome may very well have with as much as #freenode is lighting up.
<knome> micahg, sure. ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-17
<micahg> skellat: do we really want apt-offline in the desktop seed?
<micahg> now I remember why I didn't merge it before
<Unit193> It doesn't have you tagged, but just so you know as well in case you missed the mail: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-default-settings/+merge/174852
<micahg> Unit193: do we now have a xfce4-popup-applicationsmenu application?
<Unit193> micahg: Of course, it's xfce4-panel.
<micahg> Unit193: xfce4-panel installs that?
<Unit193> micahg: Yes sir, xfce4-panel: /usr/bin/xfce4-popup-applicationsmenu
<Unit193> (And this isn't some package I mangled.)
<micahg> heh, ok, I've never seen it before (then again, I'm still running quantal on my bleeding edge machine)
<Unit193> Heh, nice.  I've already set it on the computers here, mainly because it's faster for me.
<skellat> micahg: Yes, yes we do want apt-offline in the desktop seed
<micahg> skellat: ok, I'm thinking to make it a recommends then
<micahg> I don't think it's critical to the desktop
<Unit193> It was in "Depends"? 0_o
<skellat> Prevents a chicken-and-the-egg problem if somebody gets a disc, installs a system, and then finds it is disconnected
<skellat> Prior discs didn't give you a good way to handle bandwidth-constrained cases including updating the view of the repositories.
<micahg> skellat: recommends ok?
<skellat> As long as it gets on the shipping disc, I'm cool with it
<micahg> skellat: you know, we can install it on the disc without having it on the desktop seed?
<micahg> desktop seed == xubuntu-desktop metapackage
<skellat> Okay
<micahg> ship == on CD and can be installed w/out making everyone have it
<micahg> oops, no, that's live I think
<skellat> We ship documentation for it now for everybody
<micahg> ok, I'll add it as a recommends then
<skellat> :-)
<micahg> the catch with recommends is that it won't be installed on upgrades from one release to the next
<skellat> We'll burn that bridge when we get to it
<micahg> but I don't think that's a problem as the main use case is new installs, right?
<skellat> Bingo.  New installs is the biggest worry at this point.
<skellat> If somebody is bandwidth constrained, they're not going to upgrade except via dist-upgrade which apt-offline would handle anyhow.
<skellat> As to notation, I should have wrapped it in parenthesis to make it a Recommends then?
<micahg> yes
<skellat> Okay
<skellat> Do you want me to update my branch real quick to do that?
<micahg> skellat: sure, can you get rid of the long comment as well?
<skellat> Yes
<skellat> I'm sitting at my BeagleBoard-xM which is on Debian now so this might take a moment or two
<micahg> ok
<Unit193> I think it'd make sense to just have it in ship and live, but that's me.
<skellat> Pushed rev 939 back up to LP
<micahg> Unit193: oops, you forgot to add the new .in file :)
<skellat> I see pastebinit is a Recommends too
<micahg> the main difference with recommends is that it's removable
<skellat> Yep
<Unit193> It's supposed to be jockey.desktop.in, I didn't rename it. >_<
<Unit193> Thanks.
<micahg> Unit193: you familiar with bzr mv?
<Unit193> micahg: I'd assume it works the same as with git.
<micahg> yep
<micahg> just not everyone uses it :)
<Unit193> Thanks for the reminder, I'm not great with VCS.
<skellat> I've been learning bzr the hard way...through usage...
<skellat> micahg: LP is showing the diff on the merge proposal now
<micahg> skellat: can you run bzr rebase :parent on your branch>
<skellat> Crap
<skellat> Hold on
<micahg> I'll be back in a few minutes
<Unit193> Hopefully I un-failed myself...
<micahg> skellat: actually, I can just merge it in as is (I was going to do a pull, but am thinking otherwise now)
<skellat> I just found that bzr rebase is missing from the version of bzr in Debian Testing at the moment
<skellat> Had to find my netbook and boot it up
<micahg> hrm, weird
<micahg> it's called bzr-rewrite now
<micahg> skellat: it's fine, I can do a merge, pull is good when the commits are all good, I think merge is better in this case
<skellat> Just ran it on my Xubuntu netbook and it said no revisions to rebase
<micahg> skellat: oh, well, :parent would only be set correctly if it was the original checkout, otherwise, you'd probably need to reference the to merge into branch by name
<micahg> skellat: it's ok, I'm doing a merge
<skellat> Cool
 * micahg has gotten used to git as of later
<micahg> *late
 * micahg will give that a couple minutes and then update the seeds
<micahg> Unit193: also, no changelog entry...
<Unit193> Yes, that I didn't add in, it's whatever anyone else wanted.
<micahg> Unit193: dch -i -DUNRELEASED and add an appropriate description (usually better to update this as you add stuff for future reference)
<Unit193> Pushed up to revision 439.                                                                                                                                  
<Unit193> (Version is in oddly, but it's marked as unreleased anyway.)
<micahg> hrm, I'll fix
<Unit193> (I don't normally use dch too much)
<micahg> yeah, I guess -i does do that..
<Unit193> Picks up name and email from env too. :/
<Unit193> (Tried fixing it in .devscripts, didn't work.)
<micahg> was that name wrong?
<Unit193> It was until I fixed it, pushed one is right.
<micahg> ok
<micahg> Unit193: I'm creating a team for gtk-theme-config and adding you to it and pushing up what I have
<Unit193> OK.
<micahg> and here we are: https://code.launchpad.net/~gtk-theme-config-maintainers/gtk-theme-config/debian
<Unit193> Might not look at it tonight (01:31), and in a way I kind of hope I don't get to it tomorrow. :P
<micahg> Unit193: heh, ok, BTW, I can't upload settings yet as it needs some lintian fixes, can pastebin if you lik
<Unit193> Sure, or I could try it, but would have to pbuild it as I don't have translation things setup.
<micahg> Unit193: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5883129/
<Unit193> Weird, I didn't get that...
<Unit193> micahg: http://paste.openstack.org/show/40641/ that's all I got.
<micahg> Unit193: right, you need to run lintian on the binaries produced by the test build :)
<Unit193> Ala lintian -I --pedantic ../xubuntu-default-settings_13.10.2ubuntu1*deb ?
<Unit193> (Normally run it on the binary/source changes files of course, which is the paste.
<Unit193> )
<micahg> something like that
<Unit193> Yep, that's all I got.
<micahg> I use lintian -iIEv --pedantic
<micahg> ah, that check was removed...
<micahg> in lintian 2.5.11
<Unit193> Going to say that your output was E, not X, so -E wouldn't have done it.
<micahg> I'm on precise ATM
<Unit193> (Maybe I should start using -E too?_
<micahg> hrm, I'd say we still need that check as lucid doesn't have a high enough dpkg, /me sends mail to -devel
<Unit193> Heh, fun indeed.  If you mean ubuntu-devel, I'll read it tomorrow. :)
<micahg> yeah
<Noskcaj> micahg, Can you have a look at the latest xfce-indicator-plugin from debian? i couldn't work out the conflict
<micahg> Noskcaj: yeah, on my list, but not tonight
<Noskcaj> ok
<micahg> the patch probably needs to be reworked for the new upstream version
<Noskcaj> It does, that's part of why i ran away from it
<micahg> bluesabre: you're working on catfish, right?
<micahg> bluesabre: Bug #1202085 
<ubottu> bug 1202085 in Catfish "Create policy file to remove dependency on gksu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202085
<Noskcaj> Why do we still keep the old patch files is xfce4-datetime-plugin?
<Noskcaj> Unless i've missed something, the datetime plugin no longer needs the patches it has
<bluesabre> micahg, I've recently learned an even better way to remove the dependency, I'll introduce it soon.
<pleia2> knome knome knome 
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/?p=1753&preview=true
<knome> pleia2 pleia2 pleia2 
<knome> aha, wow
<knome> that'll take some time
<pleia2> :)
<pleia2> oh, pictures!
<knome> pleia2, are the quotes after the first subheader intentional, and if yes, why them abut not the next paragraphs
 * pleia2 looks
<knome> i'd also tweak the links
<pleia2> ah, I think that was him quoting the mission statement of the org
<knome> ah, right
<knome> that's a bit weird
 * pleia2 clarifies that
<knome> thanks
<knome> Ubtunu
<knome> milwaukee (case)
<knome> opensource (no space)
<pleia2> that's how we spell it now
<knome> really?
<pleia2> no :)
<knome> haha
<knome> .
<knome> so the links
<knome> they are just URLs now
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i'd rather change to "Read more about Project: Community Computers" (first link) etc.
<knome> and i'm thinking we might want to move the "if your organization..." to the top
<pleia2> yeah, I was split on that
<pleia2> I think I had it all at the bottom before
<knome> the bottom part is boo because it's not separated any way from the content
<knome> (yeah, i should get some theme improvements in so we could handle these things better)
<knome> other than those mentions it looks good to go
<pleia2> knome: ok, refresh
<pleia2> it has pictures now too!
<knome> woo
<knome> we could align those
 * pleia2 fixes up last link
<pleia2> I tried to do center in wordpress magic, but it no likey
<knome> hmm. okay. i'll see
<knome> might be again something in the theme
<knome> looks like i really should get the stuff done ASAP
<pleia2> I'm going to close editing, you can edit if you want
<pleia2> planning on publishing Friday morning (alreayd had sticker news today)
<knome> i'll look at the pics, then publish
<knome> oh, ok
<knome> i'll look at the pics then ;)
<pleia2> thanks :)
<knome> hmph, right
<knome> yeah, we need a theme update
<knome> and i should send those question to tero at the local uni
<pleia2> ah, title should be "Xubuntu at Project: Community Computers in Milwaukee"
<pleia2> since that's their formal name
<pleia2> yes, you should!
<knome> boo
<knome> ;)
<knome> i don't have an edit lock
<knome> how long are you going to be around today?
<knome> brb
<pleia2> I'm working but I should be around all evneing
 * pleia2 laundry
<Unit193> Oh yeah, I need to do that too. :?
<knome> ok, good
<knome> i'll do some improvements soon then and let you see them
<knome> and i hope we can get to send IS a mail about them before i'm off to the summer cottage again on friday :)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> jjfrv8, hello :)
<jjfrv8> Hi, knome 
<pleia2> doc hero, jjfrv8!
<jjfrv8> Don't know about that :)
<pleia2> :)
<jjfrv8> I think it's doable to finish the P docs before 8/1.  Does it look that way from your end, knome ?
<knome> jjfrv8, at this speed, definitely
<jjfrv8> Ok.  I've got chs 5, 7 & 8 ready whenever, I don't think 9 needs any work (if you and skellat still want to include it). 10 and the rest look easy
<jjfrv8> I'm going to work on networking (ch 4) this weekend when I get a machine with wireless
<jjfrv8> * I meant chapter 6 for networking
<knome> :)
<knome> ok, some improvements in http://xstaging.lallinaho.fi/
<Noskcaj> Translating the xubuntu docs is officially the most tedious thing that can be done
<knome> Noskcaj, stop doing that. the australian translation is probably the most useless :P
<Noskcaj> We matter...
<knome> Noskcaj, i mean, if you think that it's tedious, then stop
<Noskcaj> I did
<knome> your effort is more valuable elsewhere.
<knome> pleia2, ding ding ding!
<pleia2> hello knome!
<knome> look at the link i posted
<pleia2> oh I didn't look at the thing
<knome> the footer is off and not "everything" is there, but does the top part look better now?
<pleia2> yeah that looks fine
<knome> good
<knome> i also fixed some of the editor styles
<knome> so you should have a semi-WYSIWYG view
<knome> but there's still a lot to do 
<pleia2> okie
<knome> i want to change the navigation
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/saucy_website/newnavi.png
<knome> that's one proposal, but i'm not 100% happy with it
<pleia2> I like it
<knome> what do you think of the activities/blog part in that though?
<pleia2> I am sometimes blind to menus on the top of the screen, so I lke repeating them later
<knome> like in the bottom of the page?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> that might work
<pleia2> or even the Get Started links currently under the screenshot in our site now
<knome> umh, yeah
<knome> i want to get rid of the graphical navigation though if at all possible
<knome> or change the way we're doing it
<knome> it's a pain to maintain
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> I don't care if it's graphical, just enjoy that they exist where my eyeballs go
<knome> heh
<knome> i hope they stay where they are
<knome> for your comfort ;)
<pleia2> much appreciated ;)
<knome> so, what about the activities bar?
<knome> if that looks good, i could throw that in
<pleia2> bar?
<knome> it does waste some vertical space..
<knome> the whiter bg
<pleia2> oh, look at that
<pleia2> it's too bright in this room for me to have noticed
<knome> heh
<pleia2> and with that, I think it's too subtle
<knome> heh, ok
<knome> otoh, if you don't see it... then you don't
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i'd have to look at it with my laptop screen
<knome> but it does give some structure for the frontpage
<knome> pleia2, ping
<pleia2> hey
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/saucy_website/editor.png
<knome> you comfortable with those options?
<pleia2> yeah, I don't really like wysiwyg editors anyway
<knome> yeah, me neither
<knome> the styles menu is also useful
<knome> has blockquote, code (block and inline), style that we can use to mark parts that need review and preformatted text
<knome> and we can add anything we want
<knome> eg. tell WP to have an item named "Elizabeth" and with that, create a p.pink element :P
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> and yeah, <h1> is disabled from "format"
<pleia2> ah
<knome> so you don't need to remind yourself what the "highest" header was you should use
<knome> (you can still a <h1> element with the text mode)
<knome> +add
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-18
<Unit193> Reminder about the meeting tomorrow.
<skellat> My reports were submitted to the mailing list in case I don't make it.  My morning Thursday is looking to be a bit fluid schedule-wise.
<pleia2> skellat: thanks :)
<Unit193> I had action items too, 1. Thanks to the people that tested, and plei, email was sent but heard not a thing back.  2. New ISO spin, 0.0.7 (released 07-14) hasn't hit the system-compositor-testing repo yet, so nothing to do.
<micahg> I might not be around for the meeting
<knome> looks like many might not be around.
<lderan-work> :(
<lderan-work> oh knome with the vote linking, is that just for within moin, for the bot
<lderan-work> will be able to finish that this evening a put it up for merging :D
<JCD> any idea why `chown 1:1 /dir/file` does not work?
<knome> JCD, please ask the support channel
<knome> lderan-work, it'd be great if we could link the votes to the html output logs
<lderan-work> okay sounds good
<JCD> k
<JCD> solved it was the binary itself that was broken
 * elfy won't be back in time for the meeting 
<bluesabre> I'll be here for the meeting, hopefully :)
<bluesabr1> Screenshots for the user-config app Mugshot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5887544/
<micahg> bluesabre: looking forward to your gksu removal trick
<bluesabre> micahg, sure thing :)
<bluesabre> its basically my own implementation using pexpect
<bluesabre> it also seems I should look into porting pexpect to python3
<knome> bluesabre, if you'll be here for the meeting, can you chair?
<knome> i'm going to miss the meeting as well
<micahg> knome: reschedule for tomorrow at 15:00?
<knome> i would have been missing that as well, but our schedules changed today, so maybe... otoh, i might as well miss it then.
<knome> (rescheduling still in progress)
<knome> i would say go on with the meeting, and if people think we need another one, we can meet up tomorrow impromptu
<knome> so let's say, ping people tomorrow at 15UTC as well if they are around and if they want to discuss further
<knome> does that make sense to you?
<bluesabre> knome: maybe, never done it before, and I might have something here at work at that time :(
<knome> if you can't, np
<knome> somebody will
<knome> at least do #startmeeting and #chair all team members who are around
<bluesabre> syntax is #startmeeting Xubuntu team meeting?
<knome> s/team/community/
<knome> and yeah
<knome> and if you don't remember the meeting name.. nvm it them
<knome> *then
<knome> i also revamped https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology earlier
<bluesabre> ok, I can probably do that at least :)
<knome> that should be pretty clear
<knome> (and the #chair syntax is: #chair nick1 nick2 nick3...)
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> that allows others to run the meeting and change topics if you have to go away
<bluesabre> works for me
<knome> thanks
<knome> ok, bbl
<bluesabre> seeya
<knome> hf!
<lderan-work> i will be here for the meeting, tho intermittent due to work
<bluesabre> cool, I won't be alone :)
 * micahg won't be here
<bluesabre> :(
<bluesabre> ochosi: ping
<bluesabre> Unit193 mrpouit pleia2?
<bluesabre> anybody else here for the meeting?
<pleia2> hi
<bluesabre> woot!
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul 18 15:01:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bluesabre> chair pleia2
<bluesabre> #chair pleia2
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre pleia2
<bluesabre> knome can't make it, or elfy, micahg, and probably ochosi
<bluesabre> so this will probably be a short meeting at best
 * pleia2 nods
<bluesabre> pleia2, do you want to lead the meeting, this is new to me :D
 * pleia2 just woke up
<pleia2> :)
<bluesabre> I can just paste the things knome usually posts :)
 * pleia2 opens last meeting log
<bluesabre> #topic Items carried on
<bluesabre> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<bluesabre> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings#Xubuntu.2BAC8-Meetings.2BAC8-Archive.2BAC8-Minutes.2BAC8-2013-07-11.Action_items.2C_by_person
<pleia2> I had one with gridcube to start social media stuff for the desktop wallpaper submissions
<pleia2> but I haven't heard from him about that yet
<bluesabre> cool, its been neat to see progress on that stuff :)
<bluesabre> #info A new app for setting user profile image and details: Mugshot
<bluesabre> #link https://launchpad.net/mugshot
<bluesabre> with a daily ppa:
<bluesabre> #link https://launchpad.net/~mugshot-dev/+archive/daily
<bluesabre> and screenshots:
<bluesabre> #link http://paste.ubuntu.com/5887544/
<bluesabre> Do we want something like this in xubuntu?
<pleia2> #action pleia2 and GridCube prepare the social media broadcasting for desktop showcase
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 and GridCube prepare the social media broadcasting for desktop showcase
<pleia2> so the installer used to have (still has?) the thing where it takes your picture
<pleia2> is that what this is meant to address?
<bluesabre> yeah, but there is no way to change it after you install
<pleia2> ah, gotcha
<bluesabre> and since lightdm-gtk-greeter now supports and shows user profile images, it makes it easy to change that
<pleia2> I think it's a good idea
<pleia2> even chromeos has one, and it's barely got anything :)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to discuss with team possible inclusion of mugshot
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to discuss with team possible inclusion of mugshot
<bluesabre> since nobody is here :D
<pleia2> yeah :)
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to possibly coordinate testing mugshot with elfy
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to possibly coordinate testing mugshot with elfy
<lderan-work> :P
<bluesabre> anything else for previous action items?
<pleia2> seems like that's it
<bluesabre> #topic Team updates
<bluesabre> other than mugshot, nothing new from me since last week
<bluesabre> ochosi has been working on a new alt-tab switcher update for 4.12
<pleia2> #info We now have stickers available for shipment worldwide via Unixstickers.com
<pleia2> #link http://www.unixstickers.com/xubuntu
<bluesabre> yay!
<pleia2> they've been awesome :)
<bluesabre> I'll order some when I get paid tomorrow
<pleia2> in return they'll be sending me stickers every so often (usually they do profit sharing, but it's difficult for us to accept)
<pleia2> so sticker sharing!
<bluesabre> thats pretty awesome
<bluesabre> #info ochosi has been working on a new alt-tab switcher update for 4.12
<bluesabre> and I don't know what anyone else has been up to
<pleia2> #info knome has been working on some theme improvements to xubuntu.org
<bluesabre> thats exciting
<pleia2> #info we're launching our "Xubuntu at..." series of interviews with orgs using Xubuntu tomorrow
<pleia2> if anyone has suggestions on orgs to interview, let me know :)
<lderan-work> ooo that is cool
<bluesabre> I'll probably bug folks on g+ about that
<bluesabre> anything else?  did we talk about the SRU docs update at the last meeting?
<pleia2> oh
<pleia2> yeah we did, I did a call for writing them
<bluesabre> cool
<pleia2> #info jjfrv8 has been doing great work on the backport of 12.04 docs, we're on schedule to complete by Aug 1st
<bluesabre> \o?
<bluesabre> \o/
<bluesabre> ready to move to announcements?
<slickymaster_> pleia2, sorry if it's off-topic, but in the last meeting it was decided, regarding the Mir tests in a VM setup to report any bugs/crashes to you. How do we do that, through the mailing list?
<pleia2> slickymaster_: so we've already finished that - collecting info was for a report sent to the list and Jono to get some eyeballs of a Mir developer on it
<pleia2> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-July/009101.html
<pleia2> unfortunately we haven't heard anything back yet :( so for now I think testing is paused until we can get some kind of feedback on how to move forwards
<pleia2> -s
<slickymaster_> pleia2, OK. Thanks, anyway
<slickymaster_> pleia2, yes and the clock is ticking
<pleia2> slickymaster_: thank you though! your efforts will be valuable in the very near future :)
<pleia2> I should probably follow up with Unit193's email, it's been almost a week
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to follow up with Mir email asking for an update
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to follow up with Mir email asking for an update
<slickymaster_> pleia2, you're welcome
<bluesabre> anything else for team updates?
<pleia2> I think that's it :)
<bluesabre> #topic Announcements
<bluesabre> anything to add here?
<pleia2> nothing from me
<bluesabre> me either
<lderan-work> same
<bluesabre> moving on...
<bluesabre> #topic New and emerging items
<bluesabre> #subtopic Proposal for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs
<bluesabre> I figured this one is postponed until next meeting
<pleia2> skellat: sent a note to the list
<pleia2> but now I can't find it in the archives O_o
<pleia2> I think something changed with mailing list archives, they used to show up pretty much immediately but now they're lagged a lot
<pleia2> I'll pastebin it for now
<pleia2> #link http://paste.ubuntu.com/5887901/
<pleia2> so I *think* what he means is that we shouldn't have our own bug team, but instead maybe just convince more folks to look at joining bug squad?
<bluesabre> that's what I get from it as well
<lderan-work> indeed
<bluesabre> is the bug squad bug finders or bug fixers?
<bluesabre> (or bug makers)
<lderan-work> think they are bug fixers
<pleia2> triage and possibly
<lderan-work> triagers of the bugs?
<pleia2> I think mostly keeping an eye out on what's there, bringing things to our attention
<pleia2> lderan-work: yes
<bluesabre> ah
<slickymaster_> IMO, I think they have a wide scope, from bug finders to bug triagers and to bug fixers
<pleia2> I think the trouble is now we have a big list of bugs, and only our devs are looking at them (and they have precious, valuable time :))
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> lots of bugs, few devs with fewer resources
<bluesabre> anything else we want to add to this, or other new items?
<pleia2> I'm done
<bluesabre> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> pleia2: I leave this to you :)
<pleia2> hah
<pleia2> we should hold off on this until more folks are around :)
<pleia2> and I'm not going to be here next week anyway
<bluesabre> we can be cruel and schedule this for a time convenient to us in the US
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> knome never sleeps, it'll be fine
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> #nick team
<bluesabre> #info team to schedule next meeting when more of the team is around
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jul 18 15:41:45 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-07-18-15.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-07-18-15.01.html
<pleia2> thanks bluesabre! :)
<bluesabre> thanks pleia2, slickymaster_, and lderan-work!
<slickymaster_> thanks bluesabre, pleia2
<slickymaster_> oh, and lderan-work
<lderan-work> :P
<lderan-work> i did nothing so \o/
<slickymaster_> see you all
<bluesabre> knome will do some fancy stuff with the minutes later (maybe/probably)
<elfy> bluesabre: just shout when you want to catch up with ^^ - just not yet :)
 * skellat is finally back from an unplanned jaunt into Lake County
<skellat> pleia2: It was late when I wrote the e-mail.  We don't have the resources to have our own dedicated team.  People can proceed on their own **but** that is about all we can do at this point.
<skellat> pleia2: So yeah, you broke through my regrettable lapse into corporate-hack jargon with relative ease
 * skellat wanders off to get hands-on with a Raspberry Pi for surgery
<bluesabre> skellat, that sounds dangerous
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> elfy, sure thing, now's not best for me either, but let me know what info you need
<Unit193> Thing is, if you do bugsquad you get tons more {email,notifications} than just the Xubuntu related stuff, but maybe that's me.  Mir team didn't see VM support as something that has to be there for 13.10, but recently got a bump for a Unity dev about it.
<knome> i'm back.
<knome> +1 for mugshot
<knome> pleia2, can we do a template for the "Xubuntu at..." series? a wikipage would serve the purpose fine
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> re: bug squad, some of us are already part of that via indirect memberships from other teams
<knome> maybe not the top-level team that has control over everything, but i think at least me and pleia2 can do bug importances
<knome> and all of our devs too
<pleia2> "You are not a member of this team." ha ha! not even indirectly!
<knome> woot
<pleia2> (i am a member of everything else somehow)
<pleia2> hehe
<Unit193> I just have the ubuntu-docs bug spamming me. :P
<lderan> :P
<skellat> knome: Noskcaj and I are recent direct members of bug squad FWIW
<knome> skellat, that's good
<skellat> Yeah, we're not top-level controllers which are the ones who can set importance
<skellat> That would be you and pleia2 however you have that access via indirect membership
<elfy> <knome> re: bug squad, some of us are already part of that via indirect memberships from other teams - that'll be why I suddenly get mails for bugs that mean nothing to me then 
<knome> elfy, lol, probably
<knome> elfy, just filter them out ;)
<knome> i'm filtering out a lot of stuff
<knome> some of it might be semi-important, but people will let me know i missed something
<knome> i missed the sponsorship granted -email for the first UDS, so...
<knome> (went to spam)
<elfy> I do the filtering with a cup of tea - ignore, ignore, ignore ... 
<knome> i have a few dozen filters in thunderbird
<elfy> yea - me too
<bluesabre> what, I figured you were a claws or silpheed user knome
<bluesabre> or elm
<knome> bluesabre, nah
<knome> i have a very customized TB though
 * ochosi uses claws-mail (which might also be a reason why there are two nice icon-themes for it ;))
<Unit193> bluesabre: Use alpine!
<bluesabre> Unit193: do you even use a graphical env? :D
<bluesabre> oh yeah, xombrero
<knome> :P
<pleia2> mutt4ever
<knome> anything that does the job is fine
<pleia2> (just kidding, I don't use it that much anymore)
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'll have you know, I have 4 terminals (3 with screen, 1 tmux), pcmanfm, firefox, and skype open. :P
<pleia2> ochosi: lmk if you'd rather send info to Sonny, you're the only address I'm waiting on before I send the batch over to him
<knome> pleia2, i sent his
<knome> pleia2, you got CC
<pleia2> o
<pleia2> I don't read your emails
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> right to /dev/null
<pleia2> I assumed you were sending your address, I didn't think to actually read it :)
<knome> yeah, talking about filters..
<knome> lol
<ochosi> pleia2: so wait, you need my address again? i can quickly PM it
<knome> my address will be in the form
<knome> ochosi, she doesn't
<pleia2> alright, then we have them all then
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> great
<pleia2> ochosi: sorry, thanks anyway :)
<ochosi> np ;)
<ochosi> sorry i missed the meeting
<ochosi> wasn't really foreseeable
<knome> heh, same here
<knome> except that it was
<knome> i just didn't remember that astraljava et avec were coming here today :P
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> yeah, i just returned from germany, so i had some stuff to take care of
<pleia2> knome: you haven't sent form yet, right?
<Unit193> pleia2: You haz reply, they don't like me. :(
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/marketing_da/badge-2.png
<knome> pleia2, no, but it's on my todo list for today
<pleia2> k thx
<pleia2> Unit193: I think they just needed an Action Required nudge :)
<pleia2> easy to forget that we were left hanging
<Unit193> (Kidding.)  Well, I don't even see 0.0.7 in there yet, but if you *really* want, I can spin one up...  I did just lose my secondary buildd/generator/etc a few minutes ago, though. :/
<bluesabre> make a TODO file with "help xubuntu", then do a merge request with that to their trunk
<pleia2> :)
<knome> ok, sent the form
 * pleia2 gives knome a gold star
<knome> ta
<knome> it was ready, all done, for like weeks
<knome> but didn't get to email it
<knome> d'oh
<pleia2> Unit193: if you want, I'm inclined to just do a vanilla install myself and then follow the instrcutions on http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/installing_prebuilt_on_pc.html
<knome> 3rd of June.
<knome> oops.
<pleia2> lol
<pleia2> yeah I do that all the time
<pleia2> paperwork is boring
<knome> yup
<elfy> bluesabre: "but let me know what info you need" - what it is, where it is, is it working now, what do you want the test to do 
<elfy> about sums it up :)
<elfy> I'll look in here tomorrow
<elfy> cya
<bluesabre> elfy: it's an app that lets you change your user profile image (as seen on the login screen), user details (as seen with the finger command), (some) libreoffice user settings, and pidgin buddy icon
<ochosi> eh, too late :}
<bluesabre> it does work now, will release 0.1 tonight
<bluesabre> yeah I know
<Unit193> Not for forestpiskie.
<bluesabre> I'll tag forestpiskie a few times :)
<knome> ochosi, not really, forestpiskie is here
<knome> haha.
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> right, forestpiskie ...
<bluesabre> (or you guys can do it for me)
<ochosi> hopefully he won't get cocky with so much attention/highlighting going on!
<bluesabre> forestpiskie: testing would be good to make sure functionality is good for multiple people, including webcam-support
<bluesabre> usage details can be seen with the built-in help button (which depends on yelp for now, but there are many who would prefer otherwise)
<bluesabre> forestpiskie: I'll probably also write a blog post later with lots of details
<knome> pleia2, GridCube: checked the url i sent earlier?
<pleia2> knome: that's nice
<GridCube> oh :D i like it
<GridCube> very professional looking :)
<knome> good - then go use it
<bluesabre> lol
<pleia2> then we should announce this thing soon
<pleia2> poor xubuntu.org, months without posts and then I'm flooding it
<GridCube> :)
<knome> haha
<knome> we also need to update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/ (or create a subpage) with dA
<pleia2> and stickers
<knome> i would probably do a simple frontpage with marketing audience
<pleia2> I shall create a bug, because right now I am working
<pleia2> for the website
<knome> then link to projects / social media / ideas
<GridCube> http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/
<GridCube> done :)
<knome> i can update the wiki now
<knome> pleia2, ^ does that sound sensible?
<pleia2> knome: yep
<knome> oki, i'll go ahead
<pleia2> knome: oh, and we actually have to create the page on our website that showcases the showcased images ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> sure
<bluesabre> GridCube: just sent a join request :)
<pleia2> and figure out how GridCube should send them to us (dA link each week?)
<knome> if you want, you can file a bug
<pleia2> I will file bug
<knome> or look at the permissions and make people do it themself
<GridCube> bluesabre, as member? its auto accepted :) but if you want i can make you an admin
<bluesabre> I'll just be a member for now :)
<GridCube> 'kay
<bluesabre> ah, cool :)
<ochosi> GridCube: looks cool! great initiative
<knome> GridCube, do you still want to be linked with your nick or is realname ok?
<knome> + can you send or point me to a full list of other admins for the wikipage
<GridCube> knome, either way im ok
<knome> ok, thanks
<GridCube> knome, http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/aboutus/
<knome> ta ta
<GridCube> pleia2 never filled the about us page tho P:
 * pleia2 does so
<GridCube> neither did M-Jae
<pleia2> there
<knome> do we know M-Jae's real name / is it ok to have that on the wiki?
<GridCube> i guess its ok, let me search the mailing list
<knome> oki, ta
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/SocialMedia
<knome> feel free to link yourself
<knome> pleia2, is G+ accurate / is knez active?
<bluesabre> pleia2 seems to be in charge of everything
<GridCube> her name is Joan Advincula
<pleia2> knome: he's still the ruler, semi-active
<knome> ok
<GridCube> :) done knome 
<knome> wiki is lagging for me again
<pleia2> Noskcaj: have you emailed Sonny your payment forms?
<knome> s/forms/form/
<pleia2> you keep saying you would, he keeps telling me you havne't ;)
<Noskcaj> pleia2, no. I've kept forgetting.
<pleia2> Noskcaj: please do it ASAP
<Noskcaj> ok
<pleia2> you're the only one he doesn't have any info for, I don't want this to keep dragging on :)
<knome> yeah, even i got around to send the form after filling it 6 weeks ago
<knome> GridCube, since there are no featured images on dA, maybe we could prefill that with a default shot from 13.04 ?
<GridCube> sure 
<GridCube> :) im uploading it 
<knome> pleia2, re: wiki + Marketing/Products (+projects), we should get the finished stuff to xubuntu.org and clean up the wiki as we move the stuff
<pleia2> yeah
 * knome slaps the wiki
<knome> are they caching wiki edits too so they show up two days later?
<GridCube> what version of greybird comes default in that picture?
<GridCube> submited, now it needs aproval, pleia2, lderan :D if you can aprove the one i just sent please
<lderan> sure :D
<lderan> done
<knome> lol, there is no super button to approve things sent by admins?
<knome> way to go
<GridCube> knome, P: i set myself to the same standards 
<GridCube> i could autoaccept myself
<GridCube> Â¬Â¬ probably should do that now on
<knome> well at least when you're uploading default setting shots ;)
<GridCube> http://xubuntu-showcase.deviantart.com/gallery/
<GridCube> ;D
<knome> devian tart
<GridCube> so i cheated P: i changed my own setting not to auto acept, but to need one vote, so i can vote P: so i have a buffer against errors
<knome> hah
<lderan> cunning :P
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing is now updated
<pleia2> ty
<knome> np
<knome> note that i did move some pages
<knome> so you might want to update bookmarks if you had those
<bluesabre> pushed my first submission to the group :)
 * knome goes laughing once it's approved
<knome> i mean, oops
<lderan> bluesabre, 2 more votes and its in :D
 * bluesabre slaps knome
<bluesabre> get a hold of yourself man!
<bluesabre> and
<bluesabre> bbl
<gian1> regarding the absence of replies on the topic of XMir; before you go poking the devs, has a xubuntu-devel list admin checked for any blocked messages lately?
<knome> there's a message from tonight.
<knome> but i'm pretty sure that's after the poking.
<gian1> ah
<knome> approved.
<Unit193> Yep, poked by mail and response was had.
<knome> yeah, 10min after the poke from our side
<pleia2> ah sorry, when I checked the queue after the mail came in it wasn't there
<pleia2> then again mailman is having some trouble today, there is a ticket with IS
<knome> no kidding
<Unit193> Meh, for anyone that actually cares, changes from 832 to 848 are what's different from last PPA package and the current one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/trunk/changes/848?start_revid=832
<bluesabre> GridCube: Updated my details :D
<GridCube> :)
<skellat> Unit193: Do you want to start up a rebuild of the test disc or do you feel it isn't time yet?
<Unit193> As I said last night, 0.0.7 isn't in repo, nothing to do.
<skellat> Good enough
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Welcome back.
<jjfrv8> Thanks.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-19
<knome> jjfrv8, i'm done with the changelog-issue, so if you want to do a merge proposal, feel free to, and i'll try to review ASAP. i was going to be away all weekend, but now it looks like i'm be more or less available
<jjfrv8> knome, great.  There should be an MP already there.
<knome> oh, ok
<knome> i'll look at that tomorrow then
<jjfrv8> Cool.  If you approve that, I've got another one ready to push.
<knome> you can push that as well (you can have multiple MP's)
<jjfrv8> But I thought you said because of the entity changes that it would be too complicated to resolve conflicts.
<knome> not "too complicated", just something that takes a bit time
<knome> i don't want to slow you down, so just go ahead:)
<Unit193> You can also build upon merges.
<jjfrv8> Do you want me to delete the one that's there and do one big one?
<knome> jjfrv8, if you have all changes in one branch, deleting the current one and proposing a new one is good
<jjfrv8> Ok.
<knome> and the issue with the entities was that you changed them twice
<knome> anything that's as it was in your previous MP shouldn't bring any problems
<jjfrv8> Well, yes, I think that's the case.  I just changed more of them as I encountered them in subsequent chapters.
<knome> more entities or rechanged same entities?
<jjfrv8> More entities
<knome> doing several changes in one file doesn't create any conflict in itself
<jjfrv8> Ok, then I think we should be good.
<knome> i'm certain we are :)
<jjfrv8> Good.  Then I'll just submit another MP, leaving the current one there.
<knome> thanks
<jjfrv8> Thank you.
<knome> (and if there is conflicts, i'll just resolve them. that's not a gamebreaker)
<knome> ok, i'm off for now
<knome> hmm, one more mail
<knome> jjfrv8, you have mail
<jjfrv8> knome, thank you!
<knome> no, thank *you* and welcome :)
<knome> now i'm off
<knome> have fun everyone!
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Congrats!
<Unit193> Though, may want to note: NickServ(NickServ@services.): jjfrv8 is not registered.
<jjfrv8> Unit193, thanks.  What should I do about that?
<Unit193> The normal thing to do is /msg nickserv register passwordhere emailaddress   then you can set it to private and enfore if you like.  It's also recommended to setup certfp or SASL in the client.
<jjfrv8> Unit193, back in May when you and knome helped me with the bzr tutorial, you both recommended that I get set up with an irc 'screen'...
<jjfrv8> and that we could revisit that later
<jjfrv8> so maybe we can do that sometime?
<Unit193> Sure!  What client do you currently use?  Are you good with a terminal?
<jjfrv8> XChat and intermediate level, maybe.
<Unit193> Cool, well if you want, you can use weechat, or irssi.  Pasi, Lyz, and myself all use irssi, and if you have a server/always on computer that'd be the easiest to use.
<Unit193> http://quadpoint.org/articles/irssi/ is a great resource, I used it a lot before.
<jjfrv8> I can look into all of those things. I don't currently have a server but could probably come up with some solution.
<Unit193> What you'd do first is start screen by running `screen`, then you can disconnect and reconnect while leaving any applications running inside.
<jjfrv8> Okay.  How about if I do some homework and come back and ping you with questions?
<Unit193> Sure!  bluesabre recently started out using it too, and I'm sure any of us would be glad to help!
<jjfrv8> Great. Thanks.
<micahg> pleia2: you probably get a lot of perms from CC membership
<pleia2> micahg: yep
<micahg> skellat: what don't we have a team for?
<micahg> oh, bugs, right
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks 
<Noskcaj10> Are there any plans to merge the new xfce4 power manager from debian? The current version always suspends when the lid is shut in saucy. If it's not going to be merged soon i'll have to file a bug
<ochosi> Noskcaj10: "new" xfce4-powerman? there haven't been really relevant commits in the last 12 months and no new release, so it's either debian-specific patches or different default settings
<ochosi> (the only interesting commit imho is the dropping of the custom OSD for a normal notification)
<Noskcaj10> I just realised it is just a debian change, it's at https://merges.ubuntu.com/x/xfce4-power-manager/
<ochosi> Noskcaj10: if you're referring to the .patch file, then yes, it mostly imports translations and that commit i was referring to
<ochosi> and anyway, i'd trust mr_pouit to get us the same patch-goodness if needed in ubuntu as in debian
<Noskcaj10> ok. Then i need to find why my laptop doesn't understand the meaning of "lock screen"
<ochosi> so you set powerman to lock instead of suspend and it still suspends?
<Noskcaj10> both lock and "do nothing". It always suspends, sometimes without a lock, and it perma-crashes the network connection
<ochosi> yeah, i've seen that networking issue before as well
<ochosi> not sure what that's related to
<Noskcaj10> It's caused by both closing the lid and leaving the laptop too long for me, i'll look for a bug after i eat some pizza
<ochosi> have you checked whether it happens both on AC and on battery?
<Noskcaj10> it does
<ochosi> and it doesn't happen with debian? 
<Noskcaj10> idk, i don't even know why i'm running 13.10 on my only working PC
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well that problem with suspend also exists on 13.04, so no worries ;)
<bluesabre> I could probably do the merge, I'll be doing thunar sometime soon
<knome> come on bzr!
<knome> what is "pending merge tips" supposed to mean and how do i "resolve" that?
<knome> oh right, i just needed a commit
<knome> stupid bzr and bzr docs not telling me that
<Noskcaj10> knome, bzr explorer does tell you that, if you need a workaround
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-at-project-community-computers-in-milwaukee/ published :)
<lderan> ooo
<bluesabre> pleia2: awesome!
<pleia2> very inspiring!
<pleia2> this is why we do what we do
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> do we have other orgs lined up for the xubuntu at... series?
<pleia2> knome has one
<pleia2> looking for more
<pleia2> so if you know of any.. :)
<bluesabre> technically, my church uses xubuntu for the kiosks, but they are just running fullscreen flash websites, so I don't think that quite counts :D
<pleia2> it's neat, but yeah if it's not actually using any of Xfce..
<slickymaster_> good evevning all
<Unit193> slickymaster_: Hello.
<bluesabre> hey slickymaster_
<slickymaster_> Unit193, bluesabre :)
<slickymaster_> bluesabre, congrats on the Mugshot
<slickymaster_> bluesabre, also thanks for replying so fast to the bug
<bluesabre> sure thing
<elfy> bluesabre: what do you need from me about this mugshot thing? looks like you've done a call to test it 
<elfy> hi slickymaster_ 
<slickymaster_> elfy, have been trying to contact you to no avail
<elfy> slickymaster_: I work odd hours ;)
<elfy> I have read all you've said though 
<slickymaster_> but I saw you already are aware of what I wanted to talk with you
<elfy> yep - how far have you got? 
<slickymaster_> I've got the test finished. I'll do what Noskcaj told me by the time I get home
<bluesabre> elfy, I guess nothing at this point :D
<elfy> slickymaster_: ok - so if you push it again from a new uptodate branch with your changes I'll get it done as soon as I see it
<elfy> bluesabre: lol
<slickymaster_> elfy, that's my plan. Let's us see if I can beat the damn Spanish witches ;)
<elfy> lol
<slickymaster_> got go guys, cy
<elfy> cya slickymaster_ 
<knome> pleia2, you around?
<bluesabre> oh, pleia2?
<bluesabre> pleia2 was around earler
<bluesabre> not sure where pleia2 went
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> haha
<pleia2> packing for trip
<knome> aha, are you available for some time at some point?
<JCD> cu
<pleia2> not really, leaving here in 40 minutes then airplanes and things
<knome> uegh, ok
<knome> when are you around the next time?
<pleia2> uh, july 29th? :)
<knome> (ok for not having time now, but let's schedule some ASAP)
<knome> awww!
<pleia2> after cls and oscon I'm flying across the country for a wedding
<knome> in that case, do you think you have 5minutes at some point to set up the wikipage for the article series?
<pleia2> sure
<knome> ok, ta
<knome> i'll send an email to tero when we've set that up
 * pleia2 adds to todo list
<knome> (and please notice, in this case, they aren't really using xubuntu for all their machines, he's just promoting it on his classes and telling people to use that)
<knome> (so some of the questions aren't appropriate as they are now, but need some tweaking - which is why i wanted to chat with you)
<pleia2> sure, I think a variety of stories is good
<pleia2> I figure the questions will change to cater to the org
<pleia2> I just made them up
<knome> heh
<shawnb> knome, did the documentation get completely finished?
<knome> shawnb, jack is in good progress for the 12.04 SRU to be done
<knome> shawnb, you can always look at the current documentation and improve that though :)
<shawnb> I think I will; when do you guys work on saucy?
<knome> ongoing, feel free to start whenever you feel like it
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-20
<knome> docstringfreeze is on september 19, so any improvements done few weeks before that will be safely landing in saucy
<knome> (at least)
<shawnb> so what should I start with Saucy or Raring? I can do either
<knome> lp:xubuntu-docs is the saucy branch
<knome> no more work will be done on the raring branch
<knome> (unless there is a huge bug or sth)
<shawnb> where can I find the changes that will be implemented in Saucy?
<knome> that's a good question.
<knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/
<knome> that's a starting point of what is planned
<knome> or http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> that lists all work items and bugs that have been assigned
<knome> things tend to change and new stuff might come up while we go, so you might want to follow this channel, the developer mailing list and the meeting minutes, which are being updated at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<shawnb> ok, thank you so much; looking over the stuff
<knome> np :)
<shawnb> so Mir is being implemented into 13.10?
<knome> decision is to be made
<knome> xubuntu will need to use xmir at least
<shawnb> hmmm... will it be an optional choice or are you thinking it'll completely replace X
<Unit193> knome: Wasn't that to be decided?
<knome> Unit193, as i said, decision is to be made
<Unit193> Yes, but with XMir.
<knome> sure
<shawnb> makes sense, wouldn't want to drop application compatibility
<knome> i mean, we can't use mir directly anyway
<knome> so it's at least xmir
<knome> and we haven't made a decision even about that
<shawnb> I'm really curious about Mir itself, I may download the latest saucy build and test XMir out if a PPA is available
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~mir-team/+archive/system-compositor-testing/+packages hasn't been updated for a bit, though.
<shawnb> now when I find an issue in the current documentation I don't need to report a bug or that right?
<knome> shawnb, if you're going to fix it, nope
<skellat> Seen over in #ubuntu-release: (09:31:49 PM) infinity: [20:23:59] Oh look, it's the Mir MIR.  We've been waiting for that to happen.
<knome> duh :)
<skellat> Alrighty, so we have LP Bug 1203207 saying that are no major bugs with Mir
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1203207 in Unity System Compositor "[MIR] mir, unity-system-compositor" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203207
<skellat> Yet we have issues like LP Bug 1102760
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1102760 in Mir "Multi-monitor support incomplete - can't show different images on each screen" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1102760
<skellat> And LP Bug 1195425
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1195425 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "Corrupted screen using radeon drivers" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1195425
<skellat> And LP Bug 1196522
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1196522 in Mir "Graphical glitches when running XMir on NVIDIA 6200" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1196522
<skellat> By what definition of "major" are we using?
<Unit193> It doesn't actually burn your hardware.
<skellat> Unit193: Oh.  Major is defined as no burning hardware and no portals to nether-realms full of Lovecraftian creatures then?
<Noskcaj> skellat, That's why the game War-Z got released
<Noskcaj> ;)
<skellat> Depending upon how long the Main Inclusion Report takes to clear, we're probably looking at Mir hitting archive sometime next week then which would *potentially* explain why the PPA isn't being updated perhaps
<Noskcaj> I really hope that doesn't break my PC. I'm running saucy now
<knome> there's a reason why development versions aren't ran on production machines.
<skellat> Unit193: Could you pencil in say perhaps Wednesday for re-spinning the test image if this does hit the archive in time?
<skellat> Please
<Noskcaj> knome, it not my fault i'm stupid.
<skellat> You're just being rather exceptional brave right now Noskcaj bordering on the verge of recklessness.
<skellat> Noskcaj: Backup early, Backup often
<Noskcaj> I found a stack of bugs then got sad because of the suspend bug. And i never back up. The most important thing is the time it took me to set up
<Unit193> knome: You really want the ISO?  It'd be pretty much the same thing.
<knome> i that means they can't say "you didn't test the latest version", i'm fine with the ISO
<knome> *if
<knome> if we have the exact same version available, then don't bother
<Unit193> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/trunk/changes/848?start_revid=832 832 to 848 are the changes.
<Unit193> But sure, can either wait or do it now. :P
<knome> anything that makes sense to you
<knome> it's 5am, nothing makes for me
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Remember, I have weird, newfangled logic.
<skellat> Unit193: I'd say wait until at least Wednesday to see if some changes actually drop
<Unit193> Sounds good.
<skellat> Unit193: If we don't have anything beyond the 832 to 848 set by then I will be worried
<Unit193> Look at the staging repo.
<skellat> Unit193: Link?
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~mir-team/+archive/staging/+packages
 * Unit193 slinks off...
<knome> zequence, hey! what's up in ubuntu studio development?
<knome> hey jack! :)
<jjfrv8> hey knome 
<elfy> afternoon chaps and chapesses
<knome> lol, hey elfy 
<elfy> you know how it is - I'd not like to get anymore hatez youz from pleia2 :)
<lderan> :P
#xubuntu-devel 2013-07-21
<noskcaj> is there a PPA that let's you run the daily version of XFCE
<zequence> knome: Slow as usual. But, the big goal is 14.04 and there will be a few changes by that time
<knome> zequence, looking forward to what those changes might be :)
<zequence> knome: We're currently working on becoming DE agnostics, but not sure if we'll be able to get anything else but a new ubuntustudio-menu package done, which OvenWerks is working on
<knome> mhm
<zequence> We're sticking to XFCE as our default, but nothing decided beyond that yet
<zequence> I'm just about to reorganize all of our blueprints. I based those on what Scott did before, but feel I want to start from scratch now
<knome> sure
<knome> and not being tied to any specific makes sense to US
<zequence> Yes, we should let our users decide what they want to use. It's important that we can support at least one setup, and so far XFCE seems quite popular and works well for us
<zequence> ubuntustudio-menu will be possible to install on many other flavors later, also on Xubuntu, so that you can get the Ubuntu Studio categories, if you just want those
<zequence> The idea is that you can choose whichever DE you want from the installer later
<zequence> knome: How's your progress coming along, with MIR and everything?
<knome> slower than i wanted to 
<knome> we're still 1 month from our mir-deciding day
<zequence> MIR is a nice name, but it also makes you think of rusty old space junk
<knome> hehe
<jjfrv8> Evening, knome.
<knome> hey jjfrv8 :)
<jjfrv8> I just put up what I think should be the last MP for the Precise docs.
<knome> jjfrv8, great! i'll check it out in the next 30 mins
<ochosi> oha, lxde and razor-qt are merging..?
<knome> ochosi, is that official, or still just talk?
<ochosi> just starting reading about it myself and haven't finished: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/razor-qt/PNvkoidV2Ik
<knome> mhm
<Unit193> They are at least helping each other, and being compatible.
<knome> yeah, that's known already
<ochosi> "Our plan is to cherry-pick the best parts of Razor and LXDE and include or port those to LXDE-Qt."
<knome> aha
<knome> says who?
<knome> i mean, once that's announced by both of the parties..
<ochosi> well they met up at Akademy in person
<ochosi> and that's a report by one of the razor-qt devs
<ochosi> i'd assume it's credible
<knome> yeah, but does it mean lxde ceases to exist
<ochosi> (and anyway, it's a smart decision)
<ochosi> the gtk2 version will remain maintained, but the lxde-qt stuff will be developed in fusion with razor-qt
<knome> or simply that razor-qt will cherry pick lxde and fork? :P
<Unit193> (Seems more like r-qt will stop in favor of LXDE-qt, and move all devs over to it.)
<ochosi> so basically r-qt ceases to exist
<ochosi> yup
<knome> yes, but will the lxde developers do the same?
<ochosi> yes, the two projects will become "lxde-qt"
<knome> is that confirmed by the lxde developers?
<ochosi> only one guy is supposed to keep the gtk2 version working
<knome> sorry for beating this to death, but i need confirmation from both parties
<ochosi> i haven't checked any other sources as you can guess
<ochosi> i've just finished reading these lines
<knome> yeah, sure
<ochosi> and anyway, i'll wait until i hear this again through other (more official) channels
<ochosi> don't feel like searching the web for more hints at this
<knome> i'd follow lxde.org
<knome> jjfrv8, approved, merged, and pushed. thanks!
<jjfrv8> knome, cool!  I'll scan everything one more time to make sure I didn't miss anything. Then I'll move to the Saucy branch like you suggested.
<knome> jjfrv8, thanks :)
<knome> jjfrv8, i'll call for others interested to check the precise docs too on the mailing list
<jjfrv8> I'll also get back on elfy's manual testcases
<knome> nice
<knome> call for docs reviewers for the SRU done
<knome> off for now, have fun everybody
<lderan> cheerio knome 
<knome> humm
<Unit193> So I suppose that was a worse time than expected to say that, maybe not even knome saw it (or cared. :P )
<knome> your mir urls?
<Unit193> Bummer.
<knome> ha.
<skellat> What mir urls?
<knome> 21:44  Unit193: 
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1310-mir-multimonitor  could be interesting to us for multimonitor, 
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-mir-converged could  be for vbox and a couple others, and  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1310-mir-xmir  could be for xrandr and composition "things"
<knome> 21:44  Unit193: I don't know, it's up to others.
<Unit193> knome: You stink.
<knome> i do
<knome> how'd you know?
<Unit193> I have a fan blowing at me, it picked it up.
<knome> oki
<skellat> Well, the log from ZNC said you both split off into Neverland for a little while
<knome> ;)
<knome> that's where all the magic happens
<skellat> Those blueprints still have an awfully large number of TODO items
<knome> yup
<knome> we still have a month until our decision date
<skellat> 32 days or so
<skellat> Or is it 31
<knome> or did we decide to decide on aug 17?
<knome> anyway...
<knome> there's still time to deliver those items
<skellat> August 22nd was decision day
<knome> mhm
<skellat> Would've been a week after they're expected to hit archive and the week before vUDS-1308
<knome> aha
<Unit193> I'd say no until proven otherwise, but that's me. :P
<knome> well sure, but we need to give them the chance
<skellat> Micah set the cut-off at August 15th that if something usable isn't in archive by then we're going to have to take action
<Unit193> knome: Sure, but I thought multimonitor support/xrandr was a must, and so therefore until they have it nogo?
<knome> sure
<Unit193> Anywho, ignore me, just babbleing along.
<Noskcaj> in saucy keep having things crash then say it might be because of /usr/local/lib/libz.so.1.2.5
<Noskcaj> what do i do?
<knome> i would ask #ubuntu+1
<Unit193> Note /local/
<micahg> Noskcaj: don't install local versions of system libraries
<Unit193> Didn't do much with gtk-theme, not good with hardening, but updated description a little, even if it still complains about it being short. :P
<Noskcaj> micahg, I didn't. I don't know what did
<micahg> not sure what you did eitehre
<micahg> is there anything there?
<Noskcaj> in the folder it's that and the python and ruby files
<micahg> rubygems>
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-14
<ochosi> morning everyone
<elfy> o/
<ochosi> ali1234: i think for the average joe snapping and preventing overlapping are good things
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, that merge-request makes sense
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi, and not sure if you saw, but I got several new packages in the xubuntu-staging ppa over the weekend
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> sorry, was away all weekend, returned last night, then watched the game and now i'm @work...
<ochosi> in short: not yet :}
<ochosi> i read something in the backlog about properly preventing light-locker from autostarting in the guest session?
<bluesabre> whiskermenu 1.4, mousepad daily, xfce4-settings daily
<ochosi> nice
<ochosi> i'll check that out
<bluesabre> yeah, light-locker should not be enabled for guest session, seems there may be a way to disable it for guest users
<ochosi> that sounds desirable
<ochosi> bluesabre: so you went with "n. " for the numbering
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> looked the best at the time, and you had gone to bed
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> also, looks best in the combobox
<ochosi> does it really help in vbox or other contexts?
<bluesabre> it helps in several contexts
<ochosi> alrighty
<bluesabre> 4 monitors side by side will all ellipsize
<bluesabre> and you will still see the number
<bluesabre> since it is the first letter
<ochosi> i'm thinking we could better position the number though
<ochosi> in the monitor-widget
<ochosi> so that it's never ellipsized
<ochosi> e.g. as a separate label
<bluesabre> possibly, we can continue to experiment with it
<bluesabre> I need to go and get ready now
<bluesabre> launchpad keeps timing out, or I would try to get a new version of xubuntu-default-settings moving for 14.04.1
<bluesabre> so suppose I'll do that this evening
<ochosi> nice, thanks!
<ochosi> btw, don't forget to set your alarm clock
<ochosi> i mean for tomorrow ;)
<bluesabre> and today
<bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
<bluesabre> 1900 UTC
<bluesabre> hopefully I can get an IRC connection
<ochosi> indeed
 * ochosi keeps his fingers crossed for bluesabre 
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> ttyl bluesabre 
<rkean> Hi everyone. I'm new to developing light-locker and (x)ubuntu in general. What brought me here was LP bug 1306917. From what I understand, the issue is that light-locker-settings thinks the default for --lock-after-screensaver is 0, while it actually is 5.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1306917 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "light-locker: screen always automatically locked" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306917
<rkean> My question is twofold: Should one fix light-locker or -settings? And, given that it should be a simple fix and I'd like to get my feet wet with launchpad, could you let me try suggesting a fix there instead of doing it on your own? :)
<rkean> Would it maybe better to ask in a mailing list? If yes, which one?
<ochosi> rkean: sry, no, here is fine
<ochosi> i haven't had time to really reply yet
<ochosi> lderan, bluesabre ^
<ochosi> i guess we should fix this in lls
<ochosi> and ofc a patch would be very welcome!
<lderan> hello :)
<ochosi> rkean: thing is i could never reproduce that problem, so if you can and if you can propose a fix that'd be great :)
<lderan> indeed it would be great :)
<ochosi> bbl
<rkean> Okay, great to hear. :)
<rkean> Okay, it doesn't seem like I will have time to do that today, and I'm unsure about the next three days. So, please feel free to disregard my previous request to let me try on my own, and fix it yourself if you feel like it. Otherwise I'll try to do it when I have time.
<rkean> Thanks for helping me out. :)
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Good luck!
<bluesabre0> Thanks!
<ochosi> bluesabre0: has it started yet?
<ochosi> and in what channel
<bluesabre0> #ubuntu-meeting
<bluesabre0> not yet
<ochosi> righty
 * ochosi watches
<bluesabre0> waiting... should start soon
<ochosi> heh, some glitches there
<elfy> bluesabre0: good luck :)
<bluesabre0> thanks elfy
<elfy> bluesabre0: we ran it for QA last cycle and are trialling it for this cycle only team - we're not kubuntu, scottk is - kubuntu trello is opem
<elfy> and it's more or less completely new to all of us
<bluesabre0> thanks elfy
<elfy> :)
 * elfy is rather concerned that's going completely off track and nothing to do with what your there for
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i was considering to mention that in -meeting
<elfy> I can't 
<ochosi> but let's give them a moment
<ochosi> why?
<elfy> it'll be like the Community Council wading in 
<ochosi> hm right, i guess i could do that as xpl
<ochosi> but as stgraber is already changing the subject, i can hold back a few more minutes :)
<elfy> yea :)
<bluesabre0> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre0: dpkg -L ubuntu-dev-tools | grep bin  to give you a quick idea.
<ochosi> uuuh, cheating... :)
<Unit193> Nono, he already got the answer.
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Also, since they've moved on, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/ has the proposed migration (some reasons why something is stuck in proposed), transitions tracker, and all.
<ochosi> congrats bluesabre0 
<bluesabre0> yay
<ochosi> \o/
<bluesabre0> party at my place
<ochosi> weee
 * ochosi rushes to the airport
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Congrats!  Also, we're here to help too.
<bluesabre0> ofc
<elfy> bluesabre0: was there an end to -meeting? 
 * elfy missed it :(
<Unit193> elfy: Yeah, he got it.
<elfy> bluesabre0: woohoo - well done \0/
<ochosi> meh, elfy's head is bigger than mine
<ochosi> elfy: i guess you didn't see my \o/
<ochosi> bluesabre0: so now what's next in the process?
<Unit193> ochosi: He knows about xubutrello.
<elfy> ochosi: nope :)
<bluesabre0> ochosi: good question... :D
<elfy> well I appear to have gone 1 btter than the freeze when deleting from the desktop for ~30 seconds I had
<elfy> it now freezes for ages lol
<bluesabre0> I need to stop tethering to my phone now, bbl ;)
 * elfy suspects a clean install is in his near future
<elfy> cya bluesabre0 
<elfy> ochosi: so what is the xubuntu team ppa - can't find it ... 
<Unit193> Which?  Daily builds or other?
<ochosi> elfy: staging?
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/extras
<elfy> ochosi: yea
<elfy> the one we've got bluesabre using
<ochosi> Unit193: i'd wanna get skippy-xd into extras too btw
<Unit193> ochosi: Well sure, you're an admin.
<ochosi> i think there's a PPA already, i could theoretically just copy the package (i've tested it previously), would you mind taking a look whether there's anything fishy packaging-wise?
<elfy> I thought the plan was to move away from all these odd ppa's 
<ochosi> no, staging and extras are quite good actually
<ochosi> they are different things
<ochosi> staging is for stuff that is from xfce development, extras is for stuff that is not from any "trusted source"
<ochosi> or at least something that isn't already in the ubuntu repos
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> so - staging is the one I need
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> okey doke
<ochosi> this one https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa is used for things we test for releases
<ochosi> so basically those patches/fixes that havent been backported yet
<elfy> bluesabre: re the stuff on staging - did you mail the list about the stuff needing testing?
<elfy> ochosi: ok - so what I want I guess is the stuff that needs testing 
<Unit193> Sooooo.  I don't really get why there's "Things to test" with "Daily builds" in the same place, but that may just be me.
<elfy> no good asking me about which ppa - I'm completely confused :)
<skellat> Congratulations to bluesabre for getting PPU rights to the Xubuntu packageset
<elfy> hi skellat 
<skellat> Hi, finally read through some backscroll today
<skellat> Having been disappeared for 7 months working for nasty people doesn't help with my being able to participate effectively
<elfy> such is life skellat - and just like for all of us - real life takes front stage :)
<ochosi> wb skellat 
<elfy> mmm
<ochosi> Unit193: well some of those things to test are in active development
<elfy> ochosi: any reason that xfce power manager data should be held back from this ppa that you know of?
<ochosi> being on top of things and not having to manually update the ppa is convenient
<ochosi> elfy: not really, no
<ochosi> but i dunno, maybe a packaging problem
<ochosi> i saw the i386 version had problems building
<elfy> ok - bluesabre - if you could look ^^ when you're about - thanks
<elfy> ok
<elfy> ochosi: oh yes - seeing that 
<ochosi> Unit193: any clue what's up with that ^ ?
<Unit193> What?  The 386 build failure?  Not really paying much attention to that, but can't tell you anything without a buildlog.
<Unit193> Last archive upload is still held up in NEW.
<elfy> I'll leave upgrading for the moment 
<Unit193> elfy: Normally apt will tell you why, no luck?
<elfy> I've not looked tbh Unit193 - still catching up on a lack of sleep 
<elfy> upgrade just says it's held back obviously
<ochosi> Unit193: mind to add the ubuntu online summit dates (nov 4-6) to the team calendar?
<ochosi> just so that we keep this on the radar someho
<ochosi> w
<Unit193> I'll add more detail to the description when it appears.
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> Unit193: for some reason the dropbox plugin failed for saucy
<ochosi> but yeah, i guess that's not a huge deal...
<ochosi> as long as we have trusty and utopic
<Unit193> Hmm?  Where?  For what?  Logs?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Congrats on upload rights. Is DM or MOTU next?
<ochosi> Unit193: the copying failed
<Unit193> ochosi: Do you really care enough to?  I could add it, but I see no reason to.
<Unit193> !saucy
<ubottu> Ubuntu 13.10 (Saucy Salamander) was the 19th release of Ubuntu. Support ended on July 17th, 2014. See !eol, !upgrade and http://ubottu.com/y/saucy
<jessejazza> was there a reason for switching to 9 month for intermediate releases. I find LTS too out of date in the 2nd year. Yet six month too frequent. an annual release is about right and I always wonder why it hasn't been considered.
<ochosi> jessejazza: we're mostly following ubuntu's release model
<Unit193> That's part of the Ubuntu core project, not under our control.
<jessejazza> I thought that. i wasn't being critical. just wondering. these days I keep a separate disk for work files and leave the system on the main disk. It's just that for a release every six months it seems a lot of work. 
<Unit193> jessejazza: So, do you believe that they wouldn't become outdated in that one year time?
<jessejazza> During the first year there are updates but when into the second year there are very much more. Just seems an annual release is about right but i'm happy to admit I'm wrong.
<jessejazza> Ubuntu talk about a rolling release which I think would result in lack of stability
<jessejazza> It's only fedora that do the six month release i think (apart from *buntu derivatives)
<Unit193> Mhmm, would break a lot for Xubuntu too, so not a great idea.  I like the Debian model, where it filters down to "testing" though.
<jessejazza> xubuntu to me is still the best distro. i don't want the bloat or fancy stuff. It's just right.
<jessejazza> i wonder if some folk don't like the six month release cycle. I tried a few xfce distros a few months ago and xubuntu is by far the best - yet distrowatch doesn't reflect this
<Unit193> Distrowatch isn't really a good way to track distro usage.  I use Xubuntu, I never visit the Xubuntu page on Distrowatch because I'm not "shopping", so I'd presume same for many others.
<jessejazza> so how can one promote xubuntu more
<ochosi> i guess what we really need is contributors, not primarily users
<ochosi> (that's what i'd be most interested in anyway)
<Noskcaj> jessejazza, We have t-shirts, mugs, and flyers, if that's what you mean promote
<ochosi> folks, have any of you tried this? http://www.webupd8.org/2014/07/xubuntu-how-to-put-maximized-windows.html
<Noskcaj> Also most major social media things, a blog that you could make an article for, and (i think) a youtube channel somewhere
<Noskcaj> ochosi, ew, webupd8
<ochosi> Unit193: could you take a peek at the packaging there? http://ppa.launchpad.net/eugenesan/ppa/ubuntu/pool/main/x/xfce4-windowck-plugin/
<ochosi> could be interesting for -extras
<Noskcaj> ochosi, It's missing a long description, and theres a few thing that just don't need to be in there.
<Noskcaj> Could i have access to the xuubntu-dev PPAs?
<ochosi> i guess the only way you can get access is via being added to xubuntu-dev
<ochosi> we can discuss that at tomorrow's meeting with bluesabre 
<Noskcaj> ok
<Unit193> ochosi: There'd be several things to fix.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: anyway, the way we did things with Unit193 for now was that he built the packages in his PPA, then they were tested and then copied over
<Noskcaj> only 2.5 months till i can apply for MOTU again. sigh
<ochosi> it's a bit more work that way, but not too much and it works for now
<Unit193> Yep, works fine.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: 2.5 months is not too bad, that's basically "after the summer" :)
<Noskcaj> *winter
<Unit193> ochosi: Remember, weird aus.
<ochosi> oh, whooops
<Noskcaj> I'm going to upload whiskermenu and a few other xfce apps straight to ubuntu, since corsac is unresponsive
<bluesabre> looks like a list was left for me :)
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> and congrats again :)
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> seems like the buildbots fail fairly frequently without a good reason
<ochosi> humm :/
<bluesabre> telling the builds to try again :)
<bluesabre> elfy, yeah, I had mailed the lists, but somehow the packages never made it to -proposed, investigating
<ochosi> night everyone
<bluesabre> night ochosi
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-15
<bluesabre> ochosi: failed builds passed
<Unit193> knome: Still have the SRU to file for the Xubuntu docs, but I believe bluesabre can actually upload them.
<bluesabre> it'd be worth a shot anyway :)
<knome> Unit193, yyyap.
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for following up on the stuck SRUs btw!
<ochosi> bluesabre: hey, would you mind copying over the recipe from liviu's PPA for skippy-xd to xubuntu-staging? https://code.launchpad.net/~landronimirc/+recipe/skippy-xd-daily
<ochosi> then we don't have to copy/update the package by hand when there's something new...
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> seeing that skippy-xd is not in the archives, shouldn't it go into -extras?
<ochosi> errr, sorry, i meant -extras
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> it's already there in fact, i copied the pkgs over
<ochosi> but then i realized we could also just copy the recipe
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> i also asked liviu for utopic packages and he promptly delivered
<ochosi> btw, i have a bit of feedback on the greeter-background branch
<ochosi> i dunno if you've tried it already
<bluesabre> I haven't
<ochosi> but it seems to me that somehow xorg's setup is interfering
<ochosi> obviously whatever you set in xfce's display dialog doesn't matter
<ochosi> here on my work machine, i always get the cloned/mirrored output
<ochosi> so yeah, i'm wondering whether the greeter shouldn't take a more "active" role, it shouldn't be too hard to set up your displays as a user (if you already fiddle with lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf)
<bluesabre> possibly, but at least the needed code already exists in one of our other projects :)
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> recipe prepared for skippy-xd into -extras
<ochosi> i had thought that andrew had already touched that part
<ochosi> but obviously i was mistaken there
<ochosi> he said something about "setting the displays up with xrandr" though
<ochosi> i thought that xfsettingsd touches xrandr too and keeps in sync with it
<ochosi> but maybe that's another mistaken assumption
<bluesabre> I think xrandr is per-user
<bluesabre> might be wrong
<ochosi> yeah, i thought so too
<ochosi> and per X session
<bluesabre> mr_pouit is the randr master :)
<ochosi> so the greeter should have a separate setup
<ochosi> thanks for the skippy-recipe, bluesabre 
<ochosi> bluesabre: commented quite a bit on andrew's MR now
<ochosi> !team | folks, i'm waiting a few minutes until the netsplits are over (hopefully)
<ubottu> folks, i'm waiting a few minutes until the netsplits are over (hopefully): bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<pleia2> I am here for 25 minutes (at a work sprint right now)
<ochosi> pleia2: we can also start right now if that's better for you
<ochosi> well, let's see who's here...
<ochosi> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 15 10:08:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<ochosi> who's here for the meeting?
<pleia2> o/
<pleia2> I'm in Germany this week, so this meeting isn't at 3AM :)
<ochosi> hehe, nice
 * ochosi is already a bit hungry, it's lunchtime in .at too ;)
<pleia2> hehe
<slickymasterWork> o/
<ochosi> !team | meeting time everyone! :)
<ubottu> meeting time everyone! :): bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<bluesabre> \o/
<ochosi> wow, quite the turnout :)
<ochosi> anyway, i guess let's start since pleia2 isn't around that much longer
<ochosi> #topic Open action items
<ochosi> doesn't look like we have much
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: how is the -core stuff doing?
<slickymasterWork> haven't been able to start it yet ochosi :P
<slickymasterWork> lately things at work haven't been easy
<bluesabre> xubuntu-core?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: no worries, there's still time ;)
<ochosi> we can carry that forward i guess
<bluesabre> I merged the branch for that last night, so that should appear shortly in utopic :)
<ochosi> #action slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
<slickymasterWork> I targeting to get that in mid august ochosi 
<slickymasterWork> s/I/I'm
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: is it on trello?
<ochosi> if not, please add it there
<slickymasterWork> not yet
<slickymasterWork> will do
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> ok, we have two things on our agenda...
<ochosi> #topic Default irc client
<ochosi> sooo, we had a bit of discussion on the ML
<ochosi> i'm not sure that was really entirely conclusive
<pleia2> yeah, not so much
<ochosi> from what i gather, most people are in favor of hexchat>xchat
<ochosi> but whether to just use pidgin instead, that was not very clear as a feedback
<bluesabre> I think at present, we should replace xchat with hexchat
<ochosi> i'm generally fine with that
<bluesabre> since we never had any conclusive decision, and hexchat is effectively the newer version
<ochosi> iirc elfy had some concerns wrt hexchat
<ochosi> some bugs or regressions i think
<bluesabre> I see
<ochosi> generally i'm fine with proceeding that way
<pleia2> me too, can we action elfy to let us know what the issues are?
<ochosi> i don't remember how grave the problems were, and it seems neither Unit193 nor elfy are around
<ochosi> sounds like a good idea
<bluesabre> sounds good to me. Then we can work to resolve those items prior to next meeting
<ochosi> (since he didn't say anything on the ML)
<ochosi> #action elfy Inform the team on the mailinglist about potential bugs/regressions of hexchat over xchat
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy Inform the team on the mailinglist about potential bugs/regressions of hexchat over xchat
<ochosi> generally speaking, i'd be fine with trying to just go with pidgin for a cycle in case hexchat has regressions
<ochosi> so either way, i'd do away with xchat for at least 14.10
<ochosi> thoughts/comments?
<pleia2> sounds good
<bluesabre> I agree
<ochosi> okeydokey, then let's discuss this again next time with elfy's intel
<ochosi> #topic Gksu/do
<ochosi> now, this is a topic i don't know much about
<ochosi> so i'm hoping one of you has done the homework :p
<ochosi> (i read what was posted on the ml, but nothing beyond that)
<slickymasterWork> xubutrello: card 81 link
<xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/wn31wIF5/81-add-core-information-to-faq
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: ^^
<ochosi> thanks slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> cool, so there are a few things going on here
<bluesabre> 1. Ubuntu moved away from using gksu(do) in favor of pkexec.  Most of their applications now ship pkexec policies, so this was an acceptable item for them.
<bluesabre> 2. We followed suit.  However, most of our applications do not have pkexec policies, so we're a bit behind on that.
<bluesabre> so 3. the question is, do we want to return gksu(do), or create an effort to make pkexec policies for our common applications?
<slickymasterWork> we sort of had a similar discussion on this last cycle regarding the occurrences of gksu in the documentation
<ochosi> hm, i see
<bluesabre> gksu has been the norm for a long time, and you could say that users expect it
<slickymasterWork> and it was decided to drop gksu favoring the use of sudo .i
<slickymasterWork> *sudo -i
<ochosi> so does anybody have an idea how many apps are affected?
<ochosi> (just to get an idea of how much work it'd be)
<bluesabre> I think it depends entirely on what we want users to be running as superuser
<bluesabre> firefox: probably a bad idea
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: you're just referring to shipped app's, right?
<slickymasterWork> firefox is definitely one 
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: yes, those we ship
<bluesabre> mousepad and terminal could both be beneficial
<ochosi> but yeah, it makes one wonder about whether we're causing users issues on other apps...
<ochosi> thunar?
<bluesabre> yes
<slickymasterWork> I think that terminal would be another
<ochosi> how much work is it to add a pkexec profile?
<bluesabre> one sec
<ochosi> pleia2: btw, if you have to run but have team updates, i'll give you the floor anytime...
<pleia2> ochosi: yeah, I should do that soon :)
<bluesabre> sample file: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/trunk/view/head:/com.ubuntu.pkexec.lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings.policy.in
<pleia2> seems not so bad
<ochosi> yeah, but that all has to go upstream ideally, right?
<pleia2> I assume at least to the packages in debian first
 * ochosi just hopes this isn't another thing ppl will get flamey about like systemd...
<bluesabre> ideally, or we can ship it in xubuntu-default-settings... but yeah, implementation would be another question
<bluesabre> we already have pkexec, just no supported apps :)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> any downsides to additionally bringing back gksu?
<bluesabre> I see none, but there may be some arguments... we should discuss with #ubuntu-devel folks maybe?
<slickymasterWork> http://pastebin.com/G2nGpEdt <- for xfce4-terminal
<ochosi> hmm, either way... i think we can't come to a conclusive decision today. i'd prefer it if we could compile a list of apps to get an idea of the workload...
<ochosi> bluesabre: good idae
<ochosi> idea
<bluesabre> right, that would be the best course of action :)
<ochosi> #action ochosi to talk with folks in #ubuntu-devel about the upsides/downsides of gksu and pkexec and then inform the team
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to talk with folks in #ubuntu-devel about the upsides/downsides of gksu and pkexec and then inform the team
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<ochosi> let's also do this though:
<ochosi> somebody should send an email to the ML about collecting apps in question for pkexec
<ochosi> ideally on a wikipage or something
<ochosi> so users can also contribute
<ochosi> we might not think of everything
<ochosi> any volunteers for that task? :p
<bluesabre> suppose I can take that action item
 * ochosi wants to move on to the team updates...
<pleia2> thanks bluesabre :)
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre 
<ochosi> #action bluesabre to set up a page on the ubuntu-wiki collecting apps that potentially need a pkexec profile and send an email to the list to get users to contribute to the list
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to set up a page on the ubuntu-wiki collecting apps that potentially need a pkexec profile and send an email to the list to get users to contribute to the list
<ochosi> #topic Team updates
<pleia2> #info The Marketing blueprint has been updated with plans for this cycle https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-marketing
<ochosi> great
<pleia2> if anyone else has ideas, feel free to let me know, but we're not being so ambitious this cycle :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> indeed :)
<ochosi> it's ok to take a slower one ;)
 * pleia2 nods
<ochosi> pleia2: so you've discussed the financials with knome for flyers and tees?
<pleia2> ochosi: mostly
<ochosi> cool
<pleia2> we'll work out details as we move forward with actual ordering
<slickymasterWork> #info bug #1299743 is now Fix Committed status
<ubottu> bug 1299743 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "No options: "Show printers shared by other systems"" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299743
<pleia2> lunch now
<ochosi> bon appetit, pleia2 
<slickymasterWork> enjoy pleia2 
<bluesabre> seeya pleia2
<bluesabre> #info bluesabre now has upload rights for the xubuntu packageset
<slickymasterWork> congrats on that bluesabre 
<ochosi> \o/
<bluesabre> #action bluesabre to review applications shipped by xubuntu to make sure they are in the xubuntu packageset (menulibre is not currently included)
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to review applications shipped by xubuntu to make sure they are in the xubuntu packageset (menulibre is not currently included)
<ochosi> how're things looking for 14.04.1?
<bluesabre> well, xfpm and lls are both in -updates now
<ochosi> good
<bluesabre> but I missed the fact that xubuntu-default-settings needed to be updated as well
<bluesabre> so working on the SRU documentation for that
<ochosi> if you're ok with it, we could take a shared action item for blogging about that bug, so that ppl know what is fixed and what isn't and how to make sure the fix works
<bluesabre> menulibre and lightdm-gtk-greeter are stuck in limbo on their way to trusty-proposed, once that happens we can proceed with verification
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'd be in favor of that
<ochosi> i can draft it, but as all of this is a bit complex, review would be very necessary
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> #action ochosi and bluesabre to work on blog posting for xubuntu.org about the resolved black screen bug (for 14.04.1)
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi and bluesabre to work on blog posting for xubuntu.org about the resolved black screen bug (for 14.04.1)
<bluesabre> also, need to know if there is a freeze for 14.04.1
<bluesabre> we're 9 days away (24th)
<ochosi> humm, that's not too much time
<bluesabre> nope
<ochosi> let's hope there is none then ;)
<ochosi> i guess that's not enough time for a separate action item anyway
<bluesabre> and the SRU process dictates that packages have to sit in proposed for 7 day
<bluesabre> s
<ochosi> oh dear, that means 2 days or less for menulibre and greeter?
<ochosi> (not even talking about the xdg-utils patch...)
<bluesabre> yeah, gotta get these things moving if we want to fixes in the iso
<ochosi> yeah, would be good, especially as all the 12.04->14.04 upgrades are visible for the first time with 14.04.1
<ochosi> who of you has done a 12.04->14.04 upgrade?
<bluesabre> o/
<ochosi> would be nice to write up some of the things needed to do after that upgrade
<slickymasterWork> o/
<ochosi> something like "fixing indicators" etc
<slickymasterWork> but mostly those were tests
<ochosi> just a quick list that we can publish on the blog
<bluesabre> sudo apt-get remove xscreensaver
<ochosi> heh, yeah, stuff like that ^
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: would you mind starting with a draft?
<ochosi> then maybe also ask elfy to help on it
<slickymasterWork> ok 
<ochosi> and then we can ask ppl on the team or whoever has done that upgrade to check whether something's missing
<ochosi> cool, thanks slickymasterWork 
<ochosi> #action slickymaster to write up a draft for "things to do after a 12.04->14.04 upgrade"
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to write up a draft for "things to do after a 12.04->14.04 upgrade"
<slickymasterWork> I'll ping elfy on it, because I mostly just made the upgrading tests and afterwards deleted those boxes
<ochosi> sure
<ochosi> okay, any other updates?
<bluesabre> also, might do a mention that ppas are disabled on upgrade
<ochosi> indeed
 * slickymasterWork agrees
 * ochosi hopes slickymasterWork is already taking notes
<ochosi> :>
 * slickymasterWork will use the logs
<bluesabre> xubuntu-dev ppas are growing steadily
<ochosi> clever slickymasterWork 
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, wanna info a bit of that?
<slickymasterWork> there's something I want to get by you guys
<bluesabre> #info xubuntu-dev PPAs are growing with an increased number of packages for trusty and utopic - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/extras
<slickymasterWork> regarding the work that you both made on the Xfce Display Settings
<bluesabre> go for it :)
<slickymasterWork> do you want it to be included in the -docs?
<bluesabre> Is there already a section for the display settings?
<ochosi> would be nice, but otoh it's simply more intuitive than the old dialog
<slickymasterWork> not specifically bluesabre 
<slickymasterWork> but it would probably fall in the Settings and Preferences chapter
<bluesabre> ok, then as ochosi indicated, its probably not a necessity, we made it a lot more user friendly... but if you want to include it, I'm open to any questions you may have
<ochosi> now it basically works like display dialogs in most other OSs
<slickymasterWork> I'll dig a bit deeper on that to see if it's adequate
<ochosi> sounds good, thanks slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> ^
<slickymasterWork> if not, then we'll just drop the idea
<slickymasterWork> okie dokie
<ochosi> anything else from your sides?
<slickymasterWork> not from me
<ochosi> #topic Discussion
<ochosi> any discussion left? :)
<bluesabre> did Noskcaj mention that xfce packages are now accepted under the MRE (micro release exceptions)?
<ochosi> he did
<slickymasterWork> the inxi issue is done with, right?
<ochosi> bluesabre: that would be an announcement i guess
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: inxi will be included in the seed the next time the seed files are generated
<slickymasterWork> I mean we're going to ship it
<ochosi> #topic Announcements
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: yup
<slickymasterWork> you beat me
<bluesabre> oh, slow down ochosi
<slickymasterWork> :)
<bluesabre> question: clutter in xubuntu
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
<bluesabre> *for parole
<slickymasterWork> he starvating bluesabre ;)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> bluesabre: do we know what clutter pulls in?
<ochosi> package-wise
<bluesabre> probably a mess
<ochosi> i forgot what is all needed, was it just libclutter-gst-1.0-0 ?
<bluesabre> I can verify that, but going forward, the x components will work decreasingly well over the next few releases as X support is pulled from gtk
<ochosi> or gstreamer1.0-clutter?
<bluesabre> I'll check on that later, not sure what recommends get pulled
<ochosi> #action bluesabre to investigate what packages would be pulled in for being able to use Parole's clutter backend
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre to investigate what packages would be pulled in for being able to use Parole's clutter backend
<bluesabre> that'll do
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> cool
 * bluesabre leaves in 5 minutes
<ochosi> ok, let's wrap it up then?
<ochosi> #topic Announcements
<slickymasterWork> I've got none
<slickymasterWork> maybe next meeting schedule?
<ochosi> #info Xfce packages are now accepted under the MRE (micro release exceptions). Thanks Jackson!
<ochosi> #topic Schedule next meeting
<ochosi> #action bluesabre is to set up the next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre is to set up the next meeting
<ochosi> :)
<slickymasterWork> he he
<bluesabre> oh boy
<ochosi> that'll be fun
<ochosi> okeydokey
<ochosi> thanks everyone!
<ochosi> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jul 15 10:58:11 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-07-15-10.08.moin.txt
<bluesabre> thanks!
<slickymasterWork> thanks ochosi 
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> i'll leave irc client and gksu on the agenda for next time
<bluesabre> gotta run, ochosi, this seem good to you: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1342065 ?
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1342065 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[SRU] xubuntu-default-settings 14.04.5" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> bluesabre: yup, just read through it, looks good!
<ochosi> meeting minutes are up
<ochosi> finally time for lunch...
<ochosi> bbl
<slickymasterWork> enjoy ochosi 
<pleia2> slickymasterWork: re: 12.04 > 14.04; swap out whiskermenu if you want it
<pleia2> otherwise you still just have the old application menu
<slickymasterWork> thanks pleia2 
<elfy> bluesabre: re pkexec - I've got a mousepad, thunar and xfce4-terminal
<elfy> ochosi: re hexchat - I can mail the list re that, but if (as it appears) we're just going to swap one app with no devs with another that has a dev - but they're not appearing too worried about the bugs I have found - is that really a good idea?
<ochosi> elfy: sounds like something you should put in that email you'll send to the ml ;)
<OvenWerks> ochosi: pkexec seems to work with any application about like gksudo even if there is no profile. The defaults seem resonable. The downside of pkexec is that it is frowned on to run the whole process as root the way synaptic is.
<OvenWerks> ochosi: So try running pkexec anyapp to see first if you need a profile for that app.
<ochosi> 15:05  mdeslaur$ ochosi: gksu was a bad hack, it would screen scrape su, so it would break horribly when a pam module asked for something else than a  password
<ochosi> OvenWerks: e.g. thunar doesn't work
<OvenWerks> Ya, I am seeing that the default has changed since I last tried
<OvenWerks> Anything with a gui would need a profile.
<OvenWerks> The profile to look at is synaptic as it roots the whole app, most don't
<ochosi> yup, looks like it
<ochosi> elfy: kubuntu are currently investigating alternatives to trello
<ochosi> mostly because of the risk that trello might one day become a service we have to pay for
<elfy> OvenWerks: every application I've tried to run with pkexec that I might want to do so with has required a new profile 
<ochosi> i have drafted an email to the list already about this issue btw
<ochosi> i'll send it later tonight or tomorrow
<elfy> ochosi: re trello - so what are kubuntu looking at - do you know? 
<ochosi> it's called kanboard
<ochosi> i'm not sure we wanna go there just yet though
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> that would mean setting up hosting for it somewhere, customizing it etc
<elfy> orite
<ochosi> if someone from the community picks it up, fine
<elfy> definitely not then 
<ochosi> but i don't see anyone in the team currently having the time/energy
<elfy> I'd agree with that 
<ochosi> also, if kubuntu push this, we might follow them (if it means no extra work)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> so yeah, after looking at it i felt we better stick with trello for the time being
<slickymasterWork> +1 on that
<elfy> bluesabre: re pkexec "we should discuss with #ubuntu-devel folks maybe?" I'd wonder why tbh, why not just be the same as other flavours - we are the only one that went ahead and threw gksu away it seems - (I'm assuming that studio followed suit there)
<Unit193> So, gksu is a problem for pam, not so much for users doing  `gksudo scite /etc/default/grub`
<sergio-br2> hey, hello
<sergio-br2> hey, sometimes tumblerd use over 100% of my cpu, without reason. Is it a know bug?
<sergio-br2> 14.04
<elfy> bah, so thunar-volman - currently test calls for gthumb and a command gthumb -i - now we don't seed gthumb do we actually use anything that will by default import a photo? 
<elfy> http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1589/info for reference - at the bottom Digital Cameras, or can we lose the whole section?
<Unit193> ristretto is the only thing that comes to mind.
<elfy> yea - not seeing any relevant command to replace the gthumb -i with though
<elfy> well, given that we don't use gthumb and ristretto doesn't import as such I'm just going to blitz the camera tab part of the tab
<elfy> testcase
<Unit193> Sounds alright to me.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, There's a few xfce uploads waiting for you too upload. Could you take a look?
<elfy> Unit193: all done and synced with the package tracker now - so if we decide to change that we'll need a new bug :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: sent that email wrt pkexec to the ml and created the wikipage (lucky you ;))
<ochosi> night everyone
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: will get to them tonight or tomorrow morning
<bluesabre> killer headache :(
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-16
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: wanna subscribe me to packages you need uploaded? L)
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Are you aware of how to get the packages in -extras included in the packageset?
<elfy> ochosi: pkexec wiki - added mousepad to the list, added policy files for all 3 - can never work out how to format code - so I didn't ;)
<ochosi> elfy: oh nice
<ochosi> that is both good and bad :)
<elfy> heh
<ochosi> let's not add the policy files directly into the page plz
<ochosi> otherwise it'll become quite unaccessible
<ochosi> file-attachments work just fine
<elfy> I've no idea how to do that, not sure I've got the patience for it either with the ubuntu wiki
<ochosi> well you have the files locally, no?
<ochosi> then simply go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec?action=AttachFile
<ochosi> and add them
<elfy> if I remember this evening I'll do it then
<ochosi> elfy: alrighty, i'll blame you if the wiki is spammed with inline policy-files ;)
<elfy> I deleted it
<elfy> tried to do it - as I suspected with the ubuntu wiki nothing is simple
<elfy> tbh I would rather dig my eyes out with a spoon than try and work with the wiki
<Unit193> That's why some of us have setup our own wiki. :P
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> it's not like i haven't been opposing the wiki :)
<ochosi> the main reason we're still using it is to have everything in one place
<elfy> I thought the main reason was to keep the person who thought it a great idea to use what we use feeling good about themselves
<elfy> moinmoin that is 
<elfy> so anyway - added the attachments but get "Current configuration does not allow embedding of the file Thunar because of its mimetype application/octet-stream.: Thunar"
<elfy> not playing anymore 
<ochosi> i see, that sucks a bit
<ochosi> then let's just put them on a separate page inline
<ochosi> and link to that page
<elfy> I guess
<elfy> cya this afternoon/evening now :)
<ochosi> seeya elfy :)
<ochosi> thanks for wrestling with the wiki ;)
<elfy> lol
<bluesabre> Unit193: nope, but I am going to try to become familiar with that this weekend
<bluesabre> also, for any interested, I have my vacation next week, so I will either by much more or much less available
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
 * ochosi is currently following up the xdg-utils MR to give it a chance to end up in 14.04.1
<bluesabre> great
<bluesabre> looks like the greeter and menulibre finally found their way to -proposed
<ochosi> wanna help me with the sru paperwork? (didrocks is already sponsoring)
<ochosi> yeah, saw that today and then felt motivated to do xdg-utils ;)
<bluesabre> I can review it for you as needed
<bluesabre> trying to get a few other things uploaded this morning
<ochosi> to utopic?
<bluesabre> and trusty-proposed
<bluesabre> ochosi: just saw your xdg-utils get accepted for utopic
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> didrocks helped me do my first debian patch
<bluesabre> congrats :)
<ochosi> heh, the little things ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: how did you get all the info added below "ProblemType: Bug" ?
<bluesabre> hm?
<ochosi> or well, maybe that's not needed at all...
<ochosi> bluesabre: review plz https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-utils/+bug/1342634
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1342634 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "[SRU] xdg-screensaver should control X11's screensaver in Xfce as fallback" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> i'm surei forgot something (apart from subscribing the sru team ;))
<bluesabre> Short and sweet
<ochosi> well i try not to ramble ;)
<bluesabre> I do that too often
<bluesabre> emails take a while for me to write :D
<ochosi> especially as it doesn't help with getting things fixed quickly
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> so, any tags i need to add?
<ochosi> or anything?
<bluesabre> should be fine, maybe have somebody nominate that bug for the Trusty release
<ochosi> do i really need to provide a debdiff now?
<ochosi> and how/where do i reference the release of xdg-utils that fixes the problem :)
<bluesabre> it's generally preferred, unless didrocks is going to handle it entirely
<ochosi> well i can ping him again and see...
<bluesabre> You can just add a patch to the current release in trusty
<ochosi> err, how?
<bluesabre> and change the debian version from 1.1.0~rc1-2ubuntu7 to 1.1.0~rc1-2ubuntu8
<bluesabre> you get to have fun :D
<ochosi> :/
<bluesabre> apt-get source xdg-utils
 * ochosi has already had my share of fun today
<ochosi> s/my/his/
<bluesabre> https://wiki.debian.org/UsingQuilt
<ochosi> i've already added a patch
<bluesabre> See "Making a new patch"
<ochosi> it's not an inline change anymore
<bluesabre> ah
<ochosi> 11:44  ochosi$ didrocks helped me do my first debian patch
<bluesabre> ok, just checked the version number
<ochosi> :D
<bluesabre> so xdg-utils is the same in trusty and utopic
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> or: was
<bluesabre> so you have your patch, and assuming you've created your .dsc/source.changes file from debuild or dpkg?
<ochosi> i haven't done any of that :)
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> i basically followed this guide: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/patches-to-packages.html
<bluesabre> but you have your source directory, and an updated debian changelog?
<ochosi> yup
<bluesabre> go into the source directory
<bluesabre> debuild -S -sa
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> probably -S
<bluesabre> this will generate the files in the parent directory
<ochosi> both ask me the same: http://dpaste.com/3CG21V4
<ochosi> obviously i still have "unreleased" as version
<bluesabre> go to the parent directory and do 'apt-get source xdg-utils' to grab the tarballs
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i'm still on trusty, so that'd be 1.1.0...ubuntu7
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> source tarball is the same
<bluesabre> debian is what changed
<bluesabre> you're just building the package
<ochosi> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting....
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> defined DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL in .bashrc?
<bluesabre> ~/.bashrc
<ochosi> gah, sorry, i have to get back to work, this is getting too much for now
<bluesabre> http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/getting-set-up.html
<bluesabre> (for reference)
<ochosi> plus i really don't wanna get set up with packaging :)
<bluesabre> if you don't have any luck, I'll help with it this evening, just pack your debian directory and mail it to me
<ochosi> otherwise all the other things don't get done anymore
<ochosi> actually all i have here is already in bzr
<ochosi> in https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xdg-utils/support_xfce
<ochosi> but also in https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/xdg-utils/utopic
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that makes it easier
<bluesabre> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/xdg-utils
<bluesabre> edit d/changelog to trusty (dch -r)
<bluesabre> bzr commit
<bluesabre> bzr push lp:~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu/trusty/xdg-utils/support_xfce
<bluesabre> then link that to the bug report
<bluesabre> and see if that's sufficient for didrocks
<bluesabre> or really, just check with him in general
<bluesabre> he probably just wants the paperwork
<ochosi> mkay, let's see
<bluesabre> ochosi: do you know if lubuntu is still using xfce4-power-manager for 14.10?
<bluesabre> since we dropped the tray icon and replaced it with a panel plugin, 1.3 might be less than desirable for them
<bluesabre> can you reach out to them before I merge https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1334185
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1334185 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Please merge 1.3.0-1 from debian" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> at the very least, they can enable indicator-power in its stead, but we should consult with them
<ochosi> already done all that
<ochosi> thing is that indicator-power doesn't work for them because it's gtk3 only
<ochosi> and lubuntu's panel is gtk2
<ochosi> be that as it may, we added a lxde panel plugin
<ochosi> that'll get released with the next 1.3 dev release
<ochosi> (which we're working towards)
<ochosi> but yeah, gilir already knows about all of this, because â to answer your first question â they'll most likely stick with their gtk desktop for 14.10, hence also with powerman
<bluesabre> great, thanks
<bluesabre> I'll merge that this evening then :)
<ochosi> yeah, although 1.3.0 doesn't have a high priority for me
<ochosi> while it enables us to drop all patches, the next release will actually be a lot better (bringing blanking support etc)
<bluesabre> I see
<bluesabre> will that be 1.3.1 or 1.4?
<ochosi> 1.3.1, 1.4 is the next stable
<bluesabre> got it
<ochosi> Noskcaj is already on our necks to get that out (for debian and upower1.0 support)
<bluesabre> right
<ochosi> but yeah, we still need to wrap up a few things
<bluesabre> cool, I'll leave you to that then ;)
<bluesabre> going to go beat myself up at the gym, be back this evening
<ochosi> heh, hf then
<brainwash> uhm what.. "Set default icon size to 32."
<brainwash> why is it back to 32?
<brainwash> did people complain about the bigger desktop icons in trusty or upstream?
<ochosi> Noskcaj, Unit193 or bluesabre: whoever of you gets to it first, could you help with providing a debdiff for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1309744
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1309744 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Light Locker blanks the screen when playing video" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> the paperwork is generally fine, i asked for nomination for trusty in #ubuntu-bugs
<ochosi> Unit193?
<Unit193> ochosi: I don't remember saying anything that'd make you question.
<ochosi> well actually I asked something :)
<ochosi> i wanted to ask you for help on the xdg-utils debdiff
<ochosi> Noskcaj: and since you seem to be around too, could you please nominate the bug for trusty? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1309744
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1309744 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Light Locker blanks the screen when playing video" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Unit193> ochosi: You had a merge proposal already, did you not?  I looked, seemed you picked number 2 of the 3 ways to get an upload.
<Noskcaj> sure
<ochosi> Unit193: it's in utopic already, but we need a SRU to trusty
<ochosi> i'd like it to make it for 14.04.1
<Unit193> Ahh.
<ochosi> so i need a debdiff
<Noskcaj> fyi, i'm never around 1200UTC-2000UTC, so i didn't see the earlier ping
<ochosi> after we have the debdiff and it's nominated, we can subscribe the sru team
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i knew that, but wasn't sure when i'd be around, so i thought i'd ping you as well and whoever would see it first...
<Noskcaj> ok
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Don't read backlog?  Or at least pings in backlog?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I sometime do, but hexchat doesn't show what channel the ping came from when you first login, so if i find one from somewhere else, i assume it's the only one
<Noskcaj> *sometimes
<ochosi> wow, better get a better irc client then
<ochosi> ;)
<Unit193> Hah. :D
<Unit193> I just strip highlights from ochosi, else I read 'em. ;)
<ochosi> please ping me though when it's done
<ochosi> thing is that we're running out of time and it might already be too late for that fix to land
<ochosi> as the bug sucks big time though, it'd be nice to get it ironed out before .1
<Unit193> ochosi: http://paste.openstack.org/show/qUGzmzyKeKLgyu5ttu8k/ Something simple like that? 0_o
<ochosi> i guess it should be pretty simple as the patch is a one-liner
<ochosi> whether it's a valid debdiff i can't tell
<ochosi> if i could do this myself, i wouldn't ask ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: You should be able to, why not?
<ochosi> well first of all i really don't know the first thing about packaging
<ochosi> and i think division of tasks makes sense
<ochosi> why should i ask you to draw an icon?
<Unit193> ochosi: I can do that!  It'll look ugly as heck though. :D
<ochosi> ofc i could describe every step here on irc and you could follow it and then maybe in the end we have an icon
<ochosi> so anyway, i presume you get where i'm going with this
<Unit193> ochosi: Sure, I'm not saying you should, just that it's very easy if you wanted to.  I can attach that paste if you want.
<ochosi> actually i did try today @work, but something with my gpg key setup is borked there
<ochosi> and then i investigated for a bit and then decided it really isn
<ochosi> 't worth it
<ochosi> i'd rather fix a bug in xfpm so we get closer to the release
<ochosi> Noskcaj: humm, just for my understanding of the procedure, why is the light-locker aspect of the bug (which is totally invalid) also nominated? or does that happen automatically?
<Noskcaj> automatic
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> fine then
<ochosi> Unit193: please attach the debdiff and then, if you can, subscribe the sru team and then we wait until "tomorrow"
<ochosi> then i'll do the "fun part" and go pinging ppl for help again
<Noskcaj> Should we just drop light-locker as an affected package, since invalid is normally for when the entire bug is invalid
<Unit193> ochosi: Done.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: yes, please go ahead and do that
<ochosi> Unit193: thanks a bunch!
 * ochosi just pushed another patch to xfpm
<Unit193> Bah, need to look at Xfce's commits again, silly Nick.
<ochosi> hm?
<ochosi> Unit193: silly nick what?
<Unit193> ochosi: I review commits in git.xfce, and see if there's anything I want.  Would make it easier if I'd just have to read scrollback, filtered languages of course.
<ochosi> yeah, the translation-commits suck a bit
<Unit193> So, I should poke him on IRC next time I see him, I suppose. :/
<ochosi> iirc someone suggested filtering out translations a while ago
<ochosi> (on the ml, so you can search for the discussion on xfce's git setup)
<Unit193> Right, I setup the IRC announce with filtered out translations.
<ochosi> in what channel though?
<Unit193> #xfce-dev of course.
<ochosi> right, why not #xfce-commits?
<ochosi> well i guess actually xfce-dev would work fine just as well...
<Unit193> The channel wouldn't get that much output. ;)
<Unit193> But, that's detail.
<ochosi> yeah, i know it wouldn't
<ochosi> but at least in commits you can just add it without anybody being bothered and without having to ask
<ochosi> if ppl like it, you can add it in -dev too
<Unit193> I can't do anything though, it needs to be someone with access to the server.
<ochosi> oh right, i forgot
<Unit193> :)
<Unit193> It's still in: https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/irker/
<Unit193> Ah crap, didn't want to link that to here.
<ochosi> oh no, now it's out!
<ochosi> :p
<ochosi> Logan_: in case you're around, would you mind to upload this to trusty proposed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1309744
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1309744 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Light Locker blanks the screen when playing video" [Undecided,Triaged]
<ochosi> time to get some sleep, night everyone
<Unit193> G'night.
<ali1234> Unit193: i just subscribed to the commit ml and made a gmail filter to filter out translations
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-17
<Unit193> parole | 0.7.0-0ubuntu1   | utopic/universe
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 17 link
<Unit193> So is this finished?
<xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/rYdUpT2q/17-suite-c-call
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 73 link
<xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/QRco5FLe/73-parole-0-6-2-0-7
<bluesabre> yup, looks that way
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 73 move to Done 14.10
<xubutrello> Couldn't find any list named: "done". Aborting.
<bluesabre> already moved it
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> Bah.
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: :O
<Unit193> Hmm?
<bluesabre> he found a new bug while doing SRU verification
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [High,Fix committed]
<bluesabre> see last comments
<bluesabre> easy fix, but :(
<Unit193> Ouch.
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: would you mind removing ~/.config/menus/xfce-applications.menu, and try that same test with a launcher that has been saved (even a new launcher, as long as it has a filename assigned to it)
<Unit193> xubuntu-meta sitting in NEW: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/utopic/+queue
<knome> bluesabre, hey, at least we're finding the bugs "internally" on the team, so they don't spread out too far
<Unit193> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages
<ochosi> Unit193: which packages would be intended for which ppa?
<ochosi> bluesabre: tried my best with bdmurray, as he's the sru guy today, if you have any better ideas/shots, feel free to give it a try
<ochosi> (note: bdmurray isn't around yet)
<Noskcaj> Why is it that we seed libcheese-doc?
<bluesabre> I think it gets pulled thanks to gstreamer1.0-tools
<bluesabre> ochosi: if he's the pilot today, we just gotta keep poking :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i guess
<bluesabre> what's up ochosi?
<ochosi> bluesabre: not much, mostly working :)
<ochosi> but it's frickin' hot outside
<ochosi> oh, and waiting a bit for bdmurray to show his face so i can ping him over and over :>
<ochosi> actually i should also fix one or two things in xfpm today or tomorrow
<ochosi> "one fix a day keeps the release-date away"
<ochosi> i saw you got another bug in menulibre
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> so that's fun
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: please see my comments for the xfce4-session merge
<ochosi> bluesabre: hf, ttyl
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, did as you requested. Giving New Launcher a name and saving before moving prevents the problem.
<jjfrv8> Updated bug report with that result.
<slickymasterWork> elfy, you around?
<elfy> sigh - so I do have a bug in a clean install ... lagging badly when changing to another desktop
<elfy> which appears to be worse with nouveau than nvidia 
<Unit193> ochosi_: xfdash, extras.
<Unit193> ochosi_: Also, can you remove thunar-dropbox from extras/utopic?
<ochosi_> yeah, i saw it got uploaded today
<Unit193> Maybe trusty too, the one in Ubuntu is "older"
<Unit193> Cool.
<Unit193> xubuntu-core is in proposed (Sean pinged them) so it should be in normal soon.
<elfy> excellent
<ochosi_> yup, saw that too
<ochosi_> still waiting for xdg-utils and x-d-settings
<Unit193> bluesabre: I suppose you got nothing on the packageset question?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, You will notice that d/p/series was not changed
<Noskcaj> The patches were just unapplied when i pushed the branch, as i have been told to by dholbach
<ochosi> Unit193: both done (xfdash + thunar-dropb)
<elfy> evening all
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> how's it goin?
<elfy> better now it's a bit cooler :p
<elfy> had to reinstall unicorn today - was driving me nuts :)
<ochosi> again?
<ochosi> :)
<elfy> same issue - I've just been really lazy ... 
<ochosi> btw, we have a few SRU bugs that need to be verified, in case you have time and vboxes to check that out
<elfy> I can do that - just point me and I can set the vm's up again
<ochosi> this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1331871
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1331871 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5 to trusty" [High,Fix committed]
<ochosi> and this one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [High,Fix committed]
<ochosi> (both in trusty-proposed)
<elfy> ok - it'll not be today nor early tomorrow
<ochosi> we'll see, might be too late then. we're aiming for the 14.04.1 inclusion
<elfy> no time tonight, working till 5 tomorrow 
<ochosi> sure, no worries
<ochosi> as far as i can see jjfrv8 already checked them
<ochosi> so it'll hopefully be enough
<ochosi> (although he discovered a new bug along the way)
<elfy> ok
<ochosi> bbl
<Noskcaj> Can someone please check that gmusicbrowser still works after you manually select a time in a song. It stops making sound for me
<ochosi> Noskcaj: sounds like a combinatiom of .ogg and gstreamer
<ochosi> at least we had a similar issue in parole
 * bluesabre enters quietly
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-18
<msx> hello everywhere, my sincere congratz for the awesome release of 14.04 LTS, amazing indeed. And it's regarding something I found you guys did there why I am here: I run Xubuntu on my laptop, a shi!@$%$% HP with hybrid GPU Intel/ATi, with Xubuntu vgaswitcheroo works great meaning the DIS GPU (ATi) is turned off by default.
<msx> Now, when running Ubuntu 14.04 on the same laptop (dual boot) I can't make it turn off the DIS GPU. Could you tell me what's the magic you did to be able to turn off the DIS GPU!?
<msx> Or point me to any resource I can read, oc :)
<msx> s/everywhere/everyone/g
<msx> LOL
<int0x666> hello
<int0x666> i'm trying to write a kernel mode driver 
<int0x666> for xubuntu x64
<int0x666> my installation doesn't seem to have come with the source?
<msx> int0x666: hi, do an apt search linux- to list the name of the package containing the source for your image
<int0x666> :0
<int0x666> it returned an enormous number of results
<msx> let me check
<msx> yeah, i really like apt but the way it shows search results is somewaht uncanny
<msx> $ aptitude search linux- | grep source
<msx> int0x666: ^   ^
<msx> provided you have aptitude installed, oc
<int0x666> installing it atm
<int0x666> hey cool
<int0x666> so uh
<msx> you can use apt too, but i think aptitude shows results in a tidier way...
<int0x666> does this mean i have the source on my hard drive, or is it telling me the name of the package containing the source that i need to download for my version?
<int0x666> i've only been a user of xubuntu for two months or so
<msx> int0x666: well, debian package management is a bit tricky, at least for me since it's built of a lot of different components being the most notable dpkg and the apt-get/apt/aptitude combo
<msx> int0x666: you can check if a package is installed by checking the letter right to the name of the package, like:
<msx> p   linux-source-3.13.0             - Linux kernel source for version 3.13.0 wit
<int0x666> p means i have it?
<msx> the installed packages will show an i instead a p
<int0x666> p   linux-source                    - Linux kernel source with Ubuntu patches   
<int0x666> v   linux-source-3                  -                                           
<int0x666> p   linux-source-3.13.0             - Linux kernel source for version 
<msx> int0x666:  ^   ^
<int0x666> so which am i looking for?
<msx> int0x666: exactly.
<msx> And...
<msx> another way to look for installed packages: $ dpkg -l | grep {pattern}
<msx> $ dpkg -l | grep linux-
<msx> that will answer with the installed packages matching that pattern in their name
<msx> dpkg --help for the whole switch list
<int0x666> while that does sound handy
<int0x666> i would like to know how i should determine which of the three packages it returned should be installed
<msx> int0x666: there's not a clear way in debian i'm afraid :P
<msx> you have to know what you're looking for
<msx> in this particular case I think 
<msx> linux-source-3.13.0 will do it
<int0x666> yeah
<int0x666> i just installed that one
<int0x666> then i started prying the keys off of my keyboard
<int0x666> and damn
<int0x666> this is a new keyboard
<int0x666> got it about three months ago
<int0x666> and there's already filth caked inside of it
<int0x666> thank you so much for the help btw
<msx> np
<msx> i'm enjoying a new kbd too, a logitech
<int0x666> is it a mechanical keyboard
<msx> a baseline model, but rocks :D will try to keep it in conditions!
<msx> awesome!!!
<msx> mech kbds are bomb, i'm looking to buy one
<msx> *the bomb
<int0x666> i <3 it
<msx> i can imagine, absolutely
<int0x666> hmm
<int0x666> yeah i'm giving up
<int0x666> thanks for the help though!
<elfy> Noskcaj: I see the same thing - gmb and parole both stop audio on seek
<Noskcaj> elfy, thanks for confirming.
<Noskcaj> I wonder if the issue is in precise and trusty.
<elfy> not from memory it's not
<elfy> I found it in clementine first - but that appears to be ok now
<ochosi> from what i can tell, it's a bug in gstreamer
<ochosi> the players do what they do with every other file
<ochosi> but seemingly "gst + ogg + seeking = fail"
<elfy> I'd assume so ochosi 
<elfy> gst + whatever + seeking = fail
<ochosi> hm, that sounds bad
<elfy> actually
<ochosi> yeah, i think gst1.0 has gotten worse in that respect
<elfy> flac is fine whatever that uses
<elfy> mp3 fails 
<ochosi> well flac is quasi uncompressed
<ochosi> anyway, it seems that the issue is worse with gst1.0
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> (which is what those players are using)
<elfy> anwyay - work calls
<ochosi> with 0.10 i don't remember big problems with seeking
<ochosi> sure, hf elfy 
<ochosi> (same here in fact)
<ochosi> bbl
<elfy> I'll try and get those SRU proposes issues onto laptop with trusty this afternoon/evening
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> btw, this one will also need to be verified very soon: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1309744
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1309744 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Light Locker blanks the screen when playing video" [Medium,Triaged]
<ochosi> it should land in trusty-proposed sometime today
<ochosi> oh and while you're at it, there's also xubuntu-default-settings in trusty-proposed that needs verifying
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1303736
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1303736 in xfce4-power-manager "[SRU] Black screen after wakeup from suspending by closing the laptop lid" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1303736/comments/146
<forestpiskie> thanks pleia2 :)
<pleia2> forestpiskie: sure thing :)
<ochosi> weee, xdg-utils is uploaded and accepted in trusty-proposed
<slickymasterWork> \o/
<slickymasterWork> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> morning slickymasterWork 
<ochosi> it's so weird though, first it takes ages and suddenly everything happens lightning-fast
<ochosi> from Laney uploading it to cjwatson approving it, that was less than 15mins
<slickymasterWork> ochosi care to take a look at http://pad.ubuntu.com/AO7hLk0hFH and see what have I might forget?
<ochosi> hm well, the removal of gthumb is highly optional, i
<ochosi> 'd say
<ochosi> the other things are good, but they need to be described step-by-step
<ochosi> especially the things that are more complex, whisker and indicators
<slickymasterWork> well the idea behind its removal was that it wasn't necessary, right?
<ochosi> yeah, we can mention that we removed it and why (duplication of functionality)
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I know. That's just the list that I wnated to be sure if there's nothing missing
<ochosi> ok, great
<slickymasterWork> if you remember something else please add it to that list ochosi 
<ochosi> will do
<ochosi> has elfy had a look at that yet?
<ochosi> i presume he has a bit of experience with that
<slickymasterWork> no, I haven't manage to get in touch with him yet
<ochosi> ah right
<ochosi> forestpiskie: ^ :)
<slickymasterWork> :) I know
<bluesabre> good job ochosi
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> let's move along with the verification
<ochosi> good news is we can verify the things ourselves
<ochosi> (which was the context in which i mis-posted that in #shimmer)
<bluesabre> cool
 * bluesabre will be working on merge requests and reviews this weekend
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I see xfce4-session 4.10.1-7 on debian now, should we merge that instead?
<slickymasterWork> thanks knome ;)
<elfy> elfy has no idea what you're talking about ... 
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - are all the SRU updates now available in -proposed for trusty now? 
<bluesabre> elfy: yes
<bluesabre> menulibre lightdm-gtk-greeter xubuntu-default-settings xdg-utils
<slickymasterWork> elfy, we were talking about http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/07/15/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t10:44
<slickymasterWork> forestpiskie: ^^
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I verified the xdg-utils fix.
<ochosi> jjfrv8: thanks a bunch!
<ochosi> elfy, jjfrv8: folks, we really need someone to confirm the x-d-s patch for us
<ochosi> the problem is there are still "confused" users who have mostly other problems with suspending that keep poking this bugreport
<ochosi> they set it to verification-failed
<ochosi> which is plain wrong
<ochosi> the patch is a no-brainer and only completes an existing sru
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I didn't try the x-d-s one because I'm laptop-less atm. Can one simulate it on a desktop?
<jjfrv8> I suspend my regular Trusty desktop all the time and have never had the problem.
<jjfrv8> Just saw bluesabre's comment on the bug report and he says it only applies to laptops, so I guess I can't help right now.
<ochosi> yup, no worries
<ochosi> if you don't have a laptop, there's nothing you can do
<slickymasterWork> forestpiskie, ochosi, knome, http://pad.ubuntu.com/AO7hLk0hFH
<slickymasterWork> regarding indicators in particular I would like your views on it, as I'm not 100% certain that my approach is completely correct
<knome> oh poo
<knome> forgetting a site in the firefox history makes it also forget the creds
<slickymasterWork> I noticed that knome because in Chrome happens the same thing
<knome> time to dig back up some files from backups then, i guess
<knome> slickymasterWork, no, i think it's correct without an "an"
<knome> i'm referring to screen locking in general
<slickymasterWork> but ins't 'an' a general article ?
<knome> sure, but i don't think it's used in this situation
<knome> elfy!
<slickymasterWork> and I'm under the impression that is generally used before words beginning with a vowel sound
<knome> well that's another way to put it
<knome> (see the pad)
<slickymasterWork> the use of the action verb "...r brings you,..." is what makes me think of the need of that article
<knome> well you don't say
<knome> "i need a freedom" either
<slickymasterWork> whatie?!
<slickymasterWork> that's completely different 
<knome> (unless you need a specific freedom)
<knome> not really...
<knome> improved screen locking is not a single thing
<knome> it's a bigger entity
<slickymasterWork> you're speaking about a concept (even though I know you could use your argument against me) ;P
<slickymasterWork> freedom isn't tangible, screen locking is
<knome> lol
<knome> well let's use another example
<knome> you don't say
<knome> "i need screen saving"
<knome> err
<knome> i mean,
<knome> you don't say
<knome> "i need a screen saving"
<knome> you say "i need a screen saver"
<slickymasterWork> notice the difference between the verb forms in those setences
<knome> see the pad now
<knome> now it makes sense to have the "an"
<knome> but i think it's clumsy to talk about a "screen locker"
<slickymasterWork> i like it better like it's now
<knome> yep, but if we made it "screen locking", then we'd have to drop the "an" ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol, I won't argue with the grammar and syntax police :P
<knome> i'm not perfect in grammar, but what you proposed just didn't sound right
<slickymasterWork> do you think of anything else that should be added to that list knome?
<knome> do we want to talk about how to get the default 14.04 panel layout etc?
<knome> or in other words, removing your current custom user-specific config
<slickymasterWork> well the idea behind this list was the things needed to do after that upgrade, do you see that as a need?
<knome> some people might want that
<knome> it's not something you *need* to do
<slickymasterWork> and it was meant to be just a quick list
<knome> another question is do we poke people at mugshot
<slickymasterWork> I don't think that falls under it, mainly because we're speaking about a new app that isn't replacing anything
<knome> well you asked if i had something else in mind :P
<knome> sure
<slickymasterWork> and mugshot was already covered in the release notes
<knome> i know
<slickymasterWork> I'll take it as a no, then
<elfy> knome: what?
<slickymasterWork> elfy, we were summoned to solve a grammar dispute between me and knome ;)
<elfy> oh ok 
<slickymasterWork> see http://pad.ubuntu.com/AO7hLk0hFH please
<elfy> not now slickymasterWork - might get to look tomorrow at some point
<ssarah> hei guys i'm new. kind of a jack of all trades. you got a little bit of grunt work for me?
<slickymasterWork> so tomorrow while you're at it, see also today's logs to see what the dispute was about
<elfy> if 
<elfy> I'm really busy with other stuff atm 
<slickymasterWork> no problem ;)
<ssarah> back :)
<slickymasterWork> ssarah: see http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<ssarah> aight
<ochosi> ssarah: and if you have questions, you can obviously always ask here
<ochosi> knome: fwiw, ppl seem to be still digging the 14.04 wallpaper a lot (seen it on many screenshots on g+), so prepare to create something equally nice for 14.10 ;)
<ochosi> (or a variation of the 14.04)
<ssarah> hey guys
<ssarah> im working on a script for a new version of ubuntu for the government
<ssarah> right now it's a couple of bash scripts that remove and put in stuff
<ssarah> it's pretty ugly
<ssarah> any advices on how i should do it / someone to ask to?
<ssarah> well, not just this one, i have to make 3 or 4 more "distros"
<Unit193> I have a whole system with different modules, but it's not the most pretty either.  Would you be looking to Do It Properlyâ¢?
<Unit193> "Iain Lane (laney) has assigned this bug to you for xdg-utils in Ubuntu Trusty:" - Shiny, it got counted as mine and assigned to me. :3
<ochosi> heh, a stroke of luck i guess ;)
<ochosi> well anyway, thanks for the debdiff Unit193 
<Unit193> Got it in updates too.
<ochosi> fool me once, try again, fool me twice...
<ochosi> (or however gwb said that)
<Unit193> xubutrello: card 78 move to 14.04.1 Done
<xubutrello> Couldn't find any list named: "14". Aborting.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you not have upload rights for xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin?
<Noskcaj> And could you please look at bug 1334185
<ubottu> bug 1334185 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Please merge 1.3.0-1 from debian" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1334185
<ochosi> ahoi everyone
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-19
<bluesabre> greetings!
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: correct, its not in our packageset
<bluesabre> need to email the DMB tonight for that and menulibre
<bluesabre> and anything else that we may ship but is not included
<skellat> Could somebody please mark LP Bug 1344535 as Triaged/Opinion for now?  We've got a very vocal user who has also filed upstream to challenge design decisions upstream has made.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1344535 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "New "right click edits launchers" feature breaks "show applications menu on desktop right click"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1344535
<bluesabre> skellat: awesome
<bluesabre> I'll mark it as such
<bluesabre> does this seem reasonable for packageset request?
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7817267/
<bluesabre> ochosi, Unit193, Noskcaj ^
<Unit193> bluesabre: Sure.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, looks good
<ochosi> bluesabre: looks good
<elfy> ochosi: morning to you
<knome> good day to all
<elfy> morning knome 
<ochosi> morning elfy 
<ochosi> and knome 
<ochosi> and everyone else
 * ochosi needs a coffee
<ochosi> brb
<elfy> are we ever not going to have light locker and power manager fighting each other :|
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, the plan is in 14.10 with xfpm 1.4 ;)
<ochosi> then xfpm will control all screensaver related stuff
<ochosi> (it's actually already in xfpm git master, so if you're using the daily builds, you should see it already)
<ochosi> bluesabre: we should update lls to not modify the screensaver timeout anymore btw as soon as we have xfpm >=1.3 in 14.10
<elfy> I don't use daily builds - I try to keep my system to the same as everyone is having to deal with :)
<brainwash> but isn't this a nice thing to have in lls? or should lls be designed for xfce/xubuntu only?
<brainwash> elfy: I'm wondering who actually uses the daily builds :)
<ochosi> brainwash: we'll probably add a check in lls
<ochosi> at least that's what i'd do
<brainwash> sounds good
<brainwash> ochosi: mmh.. https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11026
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11026 in General "Black screen when Unlocking after a long time in locked mode." [Major,New]
<brainwash> light-locker related I guess
<brainwash> we have to get rid of the evil vt switch
<bluesabre> morning guys
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<ochosi> lemme know when you plan to move forward with xfpm1.3 so we can take a look at lls before that
<ochosi> and there are even some more open bugreports in lls i think
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> going in to the office this morning for weekend support
<bluesabre> I should be around in the afternoon though
<bluesabre> I'll work on getting the packages pushed today
<ochosi> great
<bluesabre> weeee finally home
<ochosi> same here
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, have a week of holidays in case you actually take off and relax :)
<ochosi> have a *nice* ...
<bluesabre> will probably be around in the mornings and evenings, and in caves and forests during the day :)
<ochosi> sounds nice
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, i guess we should find someone to implement a simple UI for ali1234's panel-switch app at some point
<ochosi> that'd be really nice to have
<ochosi> jhenke: didn't you want to do some coding for xubuntu at some point? this ^ could be a nice not too big project
<ochosi> bluesabre: oh, and if you have time, please ping somebody about x-d-s on monday, i won't be around... (and set a meeting time for the next one plz ;))
<bluesabre> oh right
<bluesabre> whats our standard frequency? 2 weeks?
<ochosi> yup, about tht
<ochosi> last time it was three weeks
<ochosi> but the reason was i wanted to wait for your upload-application
<ochosi> so yeah, i'd stick to 2 weeks unless there are reasons to change the interval (freezes etc)
<bluesabre> ok, I'll check it out and send something today
<ochosi> okeydokey, thanks!
#xubuntu-devel 2014-07-20
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Did you see my responce on the xfce4-sessiom merge?
<Noskcaj> I didn't drop the patch, you (and unit) just read the diff wrong
<jhenke> hi ochosi yes I want, but sadly my pile of other work keeps growing as well :(
<ochosi> jhenke: right, everybody seems to have that problem :) lemme know if/when things change
<olbi> hi guys, some1 know why there isnt any updated packeges of polish translations from git in deb repos, from about start of the June? :D
<knome> because nobody has imported them. besides, git master is far away from the stuff in debian packaging; thus, there will not just be random translation updates, they will land with new versions.
<olbi> this is madness :P
<olbi> cool, so I shouldnt translate the newest version of programs or Xfce into polish because all my work is useless ...
<olbi> or other ppl from polish team?
<olbi> and this isn't just random translation but very much of string vere translated and approved in June
<olbi> or fixed
<sidi> Allo
<sidi> what versions of GTK will 10.10 use?
<knome> 10.10? :P
<sidi> oh
<sidi> 14.10
<sidi> right
<sidi> :P
<ochosi> sidi: i guess 3.12
<sidi> ok thanks!
<ochosi> mostly because 3.14 won't be released in time
<knome> pleia2, dropped saucy from help page
<knome> pleia2, you might want to update the docs subdomain
<knome> pleia2, i've also updated the processes wikipage describing this
<knome> pleia2, i've updated lp:xubuntu-website/docs-startpage for you
<knome> pleia2, actually, pushed one more revision, which adds a favicon
<knome> i guess we should do that for the official docs as well..
<pleia2> knome: thanks, will do
<pleia2> woot favicon
<knome> ;)
<knome> bluesabre, did some menulibre bug managing
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: yeah, saw it, going to do the merge tonight
<bluesabre> been super busy this weekend, and if not tonight, tomorrow morning
<bluesabre> knome: thanks
<knome> np
<bluesabre> join #numix
<knome> also did the verification for the SRU bugs
<bluesabre> woops
<knome> i won't ;P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> will catch up on all of this shortly
<bluesabre> ochosi: saw your note for light-locker depends, will take a look at that as well
<knome> ok i'm off to bed, see you all later
<knome> nighty! -->
<bluesabre> night knome
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-13
 * micahg thinks he'll switch gtk-theme-config over to LP git
<Unit193> Good move.
<micahg> is there a switch or I have to pull/push
<knome> this isn't the launchpad support channel [:
<Unit193> micahg: You can use esr'stool.
<Unit193> verve, isn't that one of the useless ones? :P
<Unit193> Also, fwiw ubuntulog won't pick up on SwissBot.
<nickmh> Is it a silly question to ask if ./ssh/authorized_keys can be read from /sdb/./ssh/authorized_keys ?  Naturalluy telling the client it's there :-)
<knome> nickmh, in this channel yes, since this isn't the support channel..
<nickmh> AAAhhhh  Sorry knome.  No prbs
<nickmh> probs
<knome> np
<nickmh> Where might be best to ask that, you think?
<nickmh> It's ok.  Thanks knome got it I think.
<bluesabre> good evening folks
<bluesabre> :D
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-14
<ochosi> knome: any plans on scheduling the next meetin?
<Unit193> Nah, we don't need one.
<ochosi> Unit193: you mean in general, ever again? :)
<Unit193> Yarp.
<sorinb__> hello ochosi , hello everyone :)
<ochosi> hi sorinb__ 
<sorinb> ochosi, I didn't had the time to try the fix you told me to try
<ochosi> not sure what that was about, that must've been ages ago
<sorinb> 3 weeks ago
<sorinb> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11976
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11976 in Settings Manager "Preferred Applications does not update default browser properly (xdg-open)" [Normal,New]
<Unit193> Logan: Heh, thanks for noticing that one and filing it, #792352.
<ochosi> bluesabre: took another look at gtk3.16 in wily and i still don't see any visual glitches or problems tbh
<ochosi> maybe you can check too, but seems like at least for now all is well
<knome> ochosi, oh, right...
<Unit193> It's a trap.
<knome> ochosi, done
<slickymasterWork> knome, the time an date link in the Meetings page is wrong
<knome> i know
<knome> i'm trying to re-edit the page...
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> ISO format string supported is either YYYY-MM-DD or YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS
<knome> YES
<knome> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Community+Meething&iso=20150720T16:30:00
<knome> how is that incorrect?
<knome> oh
<knome> the dashes
<knome> it's changed..
<knome> third edit for the link!
<knome> yep..
<knome> now it's working
<knome> "Meething" ?
<Unit193> s/eeth/at/?
<SwissBot> Unit193: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
<slickymasterWork> silly knome 
<knome> slickymasterWork, that wasn't my edit, it had been like that for ages
<knome> at least i think so...
<slickymasterWork> ;P
<knome> whatever!
<knome> ochosi, question... how do i override icons that thunderbird windows use (when they are not the thunderbird icon)
<ochosi> knome: you mean the icons inside tb? i think you have to create a tb specific theme
<ochosi> iirc firefox and tb used to have their own themes
<knome> sorry, should have been more specific
<ochosi> but tbh i'm not using it so i wouldn't know
<knome> i want to replace icon in the tabwin
<knome> that's why i thought it might be something more generic
<ochosi> oh tabwin
<ochosi> well we ship one for the app
<ochosi> i presume stuff like a compose window has its own icon?
<ochosi> is that what you're aiming at?
<knome> actually no, that's the same
<knome> but i use lightbird/lightning calendar
<ochosi> oh
<knome> *that* has its own icon
<knome> and it's blurry
<ochosi> i see
<knome> so i'm looking to make it crisp
<knome> i really didn't know where to start, so...
<knome> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Window_icons
<knome> meh, only up to 48?
<knome> :)
<ochosi> in that case you can check whether the .desktop file in /usr/share/applications contains any hints and then check for the installed icon
<knome> what if it doesn't have its own desktop file?
<knome> this setup does make it "detached" from the tb main window, yeah, but the way to run it is to run "thunderbird -calendar"
<ochosi>  have you searched in /usr/share/pixmaps for the icon?
<knome> yeah, no fun
<knome> the icons that are used are in the extension dir
<knome> (see above for the mozilla docs)
<knome> i'm just wondering if there could be any way to override it from the system
<knome> eg. based on the window name or sth
<knome> (isn't that how it usually goes?)
<ochosi> nope, not really
<ochosi> i mean yeah, gnome shell does something like that
<ochosi> i considered implementing something like it for xfwm4 at some point
<ochosi> but then again it's a lot of work, it's still a bit error-prone, it's hacky and finally it's only an alt-tab window
<knome> mhm
<ochosi> ... and it's better to fix applications instead if they're not providing nice icons in good resolutions
<knome> yep
<knome> well, the problem stands if TB doesn't allow bigger icons
<knome> or support really
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> another thing it could to is it could make the icons themeable
<ochosi> it's actually up to the app to allow icon themes to override the default icon
<knome> mmh, well
<ochosi> then you can provide icons in the size you like
<ochosi> or need
<knome> tb itself isn't the problem
<ochosi> right, then lightning has to do that
<knome> ...except tb doesn't allow it to provide bigger icons
<knome> which is silly
<ochosi> so how is tb itself not the problem again..? :)
<knome> i mean tb's icon
<knome> anyway, i've worked it around by renaming the window icons for the extensions so they are not found
<knome> now the tb icon is used as the fallback
<knome> what's the default icon size for tabwin again?
<ochosi> 64px with greybird
<knome> umm
<ochosi> with most other themes it's 48px
<knome> this is stupid
<ochosi> the size of that is up to the gtk theme
<knome> but it works
<knome> just replace the "48" icon with any size
<ochosi> hooray?
<knome> and it's resized to 48
<knome> well, to any size needed
<knome> 48 is large enough to handle a resized icon from any size and not suffer from too many symptoms of the packing
<knome> will need to get back to the real icon drawing when back from the summer cottage
<knome> thanks for the debugging help anyway :)
<ochosi> no problem :)
<ochosi> yeah, i also wanna finish up the LO work
<ochosi> but i've been afk so much that i have a hard time keeping up with normal emails
<ochosi> summertime...
<knome> yep
<knome> wife's holiday ends on sunday, so...
<knome> that'll leave me with more time too
 * ochosi feels there's some irony in "wife has less free time - that'll leave me with more"
<Unit193> Well...
<bluesabre> maybe not irony... but a standard feature of creative spouses?
<bluesabre> ochosi: can't find any issues at this time... saw one last night, but couldn't reproduce (scrolledwindow shadows that are just solid grey blobs in greybird)
<bluesabre> its probably mostly patched out in ubuntu
<ochosi> ok, good
<ochosi> bluesabre: http://i.imgur.com/GCATP7X.png
<ochosi> seen this before?
<ochosi> that's the gtk3 open file dialog issue i mentioned before
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> thats probably a dialog with the actions on top... patched back to the bottom in ubuntu
<ochosi> well no, that's not what i mean
<ochosi> look at the list
<ochosi> it's really not ordered like i would want it to be
<ochosi> starts with Z and mixes files and folders
<bluesabre> but, your sort direction is descending, no?
<ochosi> right, it still mixes files and folders though: http://i.imgur.com/vW2boNq.png
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I think I remember seeing something about that
<ochosi> which is really really distracting and annoying
<bluesabre> gtk feature
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> heh, meh :/
<bluesabre> anyway, gotta run, bbabl
<ochosi> anyway, gotta take off
<ochosi> heh, hf! :)
<bluesabre> seeya
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-at-colegio-hispano-americano/
<pleia2> love the computer lab photos <3
<drc> The pictures must have been taken during recess :)
<pleia2> there are lots of laws in the US about photos of kids in schools anyway, I wouldn't want to show faces even if the photos existed
<drc> sadly true :(
<ochosi> pleia2: wow, that is really really nice
<ochosi> gotta love that wall :)
<pleia2> yeah :)
<ochosi> please tell them to send us another pic when the xubuntu mouse is there
<pleia2> will do
<ochosi> and thanks for doing this series, i really appreciate it!
<pleia2> sure, keeps me inspired too
<bluesabre> very nice pleia2!
<bluesabre> I think this is my favorite in the series so far
<Unit193> cyphermox: Any chance to look at 1455688?
<cyphermox> Unit193: maybe tomorrow?
<Unit193> Awesome!  Thanks!
<cyphermox> I'm in a cafe waiting for my wife, we should be leaving to watch Minions shortly ;)
<Unit193> Coffee?  I just made french press.  Have fun with the movie, I hope it is good.
<cyphermox> aye.
<cyphermox> I'm not promising I'll get to it tomorrow, but I'll try to do that crazy merge, or at least fix plymouth to build with --fail-missing
<Unit193> Sure, that sounds good to me.
<Unit193> Also looked into plymouth some last night, and noticed the different theming dirs, meaning plymouth-theme-solar and other Debian themes don't appear to be found.  Oh well.
<Unit193> (Not high on my priority list)
<Unit193> Oh heh, just lines, joy and spacefun.  Nevermind. :D
<bluesabre> ochosi: poke
<Unit193> A few more if you would.
<bluesabre> ochosi: hey
<bluesabre> ochosi: dude
<bluesabre> ochosi: hi
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: acceptable?
<Unit193> Yes.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-15
<Unit193> cyphermox: Actually, here you go: https://sigma.unit193.net/source/plymouth_0.9.0-0ubuntu9_i386.build
<Unit193> (All said and done, biggest problem was entering the password twice on an encrypted install.  Everything else worked.)
<Logan> Unit193: what did I do
<Logan> oh
<Unit193> I use that, noticed that problem but requests in vivid is too old anyway.
<Logan> Unit193: don't think so?
<Logan> it just requires >= 2.2.0
<Unit193> Dangit, confusing the two.  That's the dep missing, another one in vivid wasn't new enough.  python-natsort it was.
<Unit193> natsort>=3.5.2; Candidate: 3.5.1-1
<Unit193> Anywho, moot.
<ochosi> good day everyone
 * ochosi pokes bluesabre back
<ochosi> bluesabre: hey dude, hi, what's up? :)
<ochosi> Unit193: since you've been wily for a bit, how's it going so far?
<ochosi> any roadblocks or glitches you've seen that we shoudl address?
<Unit193> In case you haven't seen it, I seem to be trying to break it with crazy setups.  I'd say all the ones I've hit are != Xubuntu and can be considered fringe events.
<ochosi> ok, good
<ochosi> well if you notice anything odd, always be sure to mention it here
<ochosi> i'm still only doing the occasional test in vbox, so far everything seems good
<Unit193> Depends on what you consider odd. ;P
<Unit193> Speaking of which, new cores coming soonâ¢
<ochosi> Unit193: new cores?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Only issue with wily i've noticed is that parole is near useless
<ochosi> oh right, that one
<ochosi> yeah, we definitely need to check out what's going on there...
<ochosi> it actually seems totally useless, not "near"
<ochosi> wonder what that is related to though, since no changes happened in parole
<ochosi> guess clutter or gstreamer
<ochosi> ok, it's clutter.
<ochosi> Noskcaj: easy workaround for you to test: set the property /video/videosink in parole to "xv" instead of clutter
<ochosi> then it should launch immediately and smoothly
<Unit193> Ah, I don't use parole.
<ochosi> bluesabre: so we have a clutter issue in parole in wily (see above)
<Unit193> What happens?
<Unit193> Crash?  Like https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=789198?
<ubottu> Debian bug 789198 in src:clutter-1.0 "src:clutter-1.0: Please update to 1.23 to fix #781121 / upstream bug 747489" [Important,Open]
<Noskcaj> ochosi, how do i do that?
<ochosi> Unit193: it just freezes up, i would have to compile with debug symbols to know what exactly is going on
<ochosi> Noskcaj: open xfce4-settings-editor
<Noskcaj> fixed
<Noskcaj> i'll install clutter-1.0 and see if that works too
<Unit193> ochosi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash#Non-built-in_debug_symbol_packages_.28.2A-dbgsym.29
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/0.8.0-2ubuntu1/+build/7464841/+files/parole-dbgsym_0.8.0-2ubuntu1_amd64.ddeb
<ochosi> meh, bidirectional clipboard isn't working in the vbox and that link is definitely too long to type
<Unit193> ochosi: http://u193.ga/y/prldbg
<ochosi> Unit193: hm, i don't get any additional debug output
<ochosi> just the usual gtk3 deprecation warnings
<ochosi> which are harmless
<Unit193> Oooh, I thought you meant debug symbols. :P
<ochosi> yeah, sorry for mis-phrasing that ;)
<Unit193> Those should be runtime. :P
<ochosi> Unit193: anyway, that bugreport you linked to might well be related
<ochosi> Unit193: especially since totem also freezes and then crashes at startup in wily....
<Unit193> Try updating the package? :>
<Unit193> Except, looks like that's talking about upgrading to the version it is at now, soo.
<ochosi> Unit193: you mean upgrading clutter?
<Noskcaj> Upgrading clutter-1.0 doesn't seem to do anything
<ochosi> Noskcaj: always check whether totem starts and runs ok to be sure
<bluesabre> hey all
<bluesabre> ochosi: do you want me to package up an artwork update soon?
<bluesabre> nice, since clutter seems to be the issue, I could swap us back to xv for the time being
<bluesabre> the only issue I have with wily is overlay scrollbars
<bluesabre> for some reason, adding this to my bashrc does not work
<ochosi> overlay scrollbars because you don't like them?
<bluesabre> export GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0
<Unit193> The apport screen looks glitchy as heck with that.
<ochosi> and yeah, let's switch back to xv to prevent tons of bugreports
<bluesabre> ochosi: I don't like them and they cover up content that I try to use
<ochosi> we just have to remember to switch back to clutter ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: don't they fade out again quickly enough? and if not, is that tweakable?
<bluesabre> they appear every time you move
<Unit193> export QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE=gtk
<Unit193> export GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0
<ochosi> right, i guess that makes sense though
<bluesabre> so if there is a button under them, good luck
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> well i guess then they should only appear when you hover them
<ochosi> or the area where they're supposed to appear
<ochosi> but i guess we have no influence on that
<ochosi> in terms of artwork, yes please! i pushed some more improvements to greybird today and may push one or two more soonish
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> if you want me to do a point release, that'd be fine by me
<ochosi> same goes for LO
<ochosi> and elementary-xfce
<bluesabre> I might upload friday then if you're expecting anything before then
<ochosi> not too much tbh
<ochosi> maybe more minor improvements
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> but personally  i think it'd be good to have some updated artwork so we can check what's still missing in qiwily more reliably
<bluesabre> I also wonder if LO integration will happen before LO 5.0
<ochosi> i think we should upload our LO stuff and then we'll see what happens with LO 5.0
<ochosi> last i heard it was still planned for wily, but i haven't talked to Sweet5hark in a while
<ochosi> the LO icons will likely receive more updates during the wily cycle anyway, so it's ok to do another one after 5.0 lands
<bluesabre> alrighty
<ochosi> so greybird, elementary-xfce and the LO icons
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> I might dump lo-icons into xubuntu-artwork for now
<bluesabre> maybe
<bluesabre> I'll work on that and other things tonight
<bluesabre> also
<bluesabre> "ooh, you fixed geary in greybird"
<ochosi> yeah, i thought i'd do one for your motivation ;)
<ochosi> had to add some custom theming though
<ochosi> but that was expected
<ochosi> and yeah, let's put the LO icons in -artwork for now
<ochosi> there's that member of the LO community that wants the icons upstream, so i won't do anything there toin order to not duplicate the effort
<bluesabre> yeah, makes sense
<bluesabre> and makes it easier
<ochosi> for us, anyway ;)
<Unit193> xubuntu-artwork or src:xubuntu-artwork?
<bluesabre> it will be stuck in -proposed for a few days, I'll have the style create its own package like xubuntu-icon-theme
<bluesabre> lp:xubuntu-artwork will create libreoffice-style-elementary or xubuntu-libreoffice-theme or something
<ochosi> i'd prefer the prior
<bluesabre> same, just not sure if there'd be any complaints
<ochosi> the latter obfuscates the project name too much imo
<ochosi> well we can always point to that discussion on github if anybody complains that we're not upstreaming
<bluesabre> mhm
<Unit193> I'd highly prefer the former, considering that follows the package naming of the other themes.
<bluesabre> ofc
<bluesabre> I'd prefer the former too
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> but yeah, I'll get the ball rolling on that tonight
<Unit193> But then again I want burritos too.
<bluesabre> oh yeah
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/1473952
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473952 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Choose preferred pinentry method" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> I'm guessing gtk2 for us for now, right?
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> dunno, what's the visual diff?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Have to keep an eye on Debian 791441, but yes gtk2.
<ubottu> Debian bug 791441 in gnupg-agent "Add more flexible mechanism to set the default pinentry per desktop environment" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/791441
<bluesabre> dunno, don't have anything using pinentry
<ochosi> i just wonder whether there are any downsides to using gnome3, even if just for the sake of not having to change the seed
<ochosi> me neither
<bluesabre> but if the gtk2 version is offered, it would likely be easier on us in the long run
<ochosi> i guess
<ochosi> hard to say when you've seen neither :)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: hmm, any idea what the easiest way would be to test evince with headerbar?
<ochosi> (in xubuntu, that is)
<bluesabre> ochosi: virtualbox, install fedora
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> no idea
<ochosi> hah, meh
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> okeydokey
<ochosi> just wanted to fix some small visual nuisances there
<ochosi> but i guess that'll have to wait
<ochosi> hf bluesabre 
<Unit193> XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME evince
<Unit193> ochosi: 
<Unit193> o
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> that was easy
<ochosi> thanks Uni
<Unit193> Sure.
<Unit193> Also, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/wily/evince/wily/view/head:/debian/patches/traditional_menu_bar.patch#L91
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, i fixed my sort issue in the open file dialog with this gsetting: "gsettings set org.gtk.Settings.FileChooser sort-directories-first true"
<ochosi> bluesabre: so in case anyone else encounters it, we might want to throw that into x-d-s
<Unit193> Just like turning off the GTK animations! :P
<cyphermox> Unit193: I see, lots of stuff... though also lots we really really don't care about and don't want to ship
<Noskcaj> pinentry-gnome3 just means it's the gtk3 version, there's no gnome specific stuff.
<Noskcaj> -gtk2 is apparently missing some features, which is why debian only depends on -gnome3
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, If you haven't already seen it, mugshot and menulibre are ftbfs with python3.5
<ochosi> Noskcaj: any details as to what features? (and i still don't have a clue because i have no device to use this with)
<Noskcaj> quoting debian's gnome team "No, we want pinentry-gnome3 for GNOME, since only that provides a proper UI/replacement for the builtin prompter."
<ochosi> hm, still no clue, sorr
<ochosi> y
<Unit193> Because it is GTK3, thus the only one good enough for GNOME? :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I think that's most of it
<Noskcaj> But if we can use -gnome3 i'd prefer that, it seems to work fine locally
<Unit193> cyphermox: Right, I agree.  I used https://bitbucket.org/snippets/unit193/agkpy
<Unit193> I personally like gtk2 better, so if there's anything that it's an option on.. :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: pushed more artwork updates over the course of today, might push one or two more tomorrow, if time permits. so friday is definitely a good date for up-ing that.
<bluesabre> ochosi: nice
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: good to know
<bluesabre> yay more bugs
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> and evening bluesabre 
<ochosi> what're you up to?
<bluesabre> ochosi: not much, just got home
<bluesabre> eating pizza rolls
<ochosi> yummy
<ochosi> bon appetit
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> thanks for the geary fix
<bluesabre> very nice at work
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> aaaaand done
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeah, i went through the issues list for greybird today and tried to cut it in half
<bluesabre> nice work
<ochosi> i'm sort of hesitant as to whether i should try plain gtk3 without any ubuntu mods
<ochosi> i guess that would expose more issues
<ochosi> but then again, i really don't want to have to rebase on adwaita
<ochosi> so i might do a greybird 1.6 next
<ochosi> since it does in fact provide basic gtk3.16 support
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> sounds reasonable
<ochosi> anyway, if you get around to testing wily more and if you see more glitches there, please let me know
<ochosi> would prefer to get in a few more fixes before 1.6, but i also want to release soon
<bluesabre> np
<bluesabre> I actually run wily as my main now
<bluesabre> and that is to say that I don't really have any issues
<bluesabre> other than my minor gripes about gtk 3.16 usability
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-16
<Unit193> Ooooh.
<bluesabre> (probably works)
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: dpkg-query -W -f='${Conffiles}\n' | grep obso
<bluesabre>  /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf b520b587f75dde65913eda77097dbd79 obsolete
<bluesabre>  /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf.d/01_ubuntu.conf cc6d5ef33952ab5da042b36bb3c9a812 obsolete
<bluesabre>  /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf 33277f4b23d3d9918fdd078b11c7bd25 obsolete
<bluesabre> Unit193: so... whats that command do specifically?
<Unit193> So the new package doesn't ship those, but the older one did and as they are config fiels they weren't automatically removed.
<Unit193> Have an old system, you'll have those files.  Get a new install, you won't.
<bluesabre> $ ls /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf
<bluesabre> ls: cannot access /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf: No such file or directory
<bluesabre> 01_ubuntu is provided by the greeter package
<bluesabre> my system might just be all sorts of silly atm
<bluesabre> Unit193: which file is it that configures the "Xubuntu" session?
<Unit193> Define?
<Unit193> Explain.
<bluesabre> sets session runtime variables
<bluesabre> makes it different from xfce session
<bluesabre> digging around, but just can't seem to figure out :D
<Unit193> The session name is from /usr/share/xsessions/xubuntu.desktop, and etc/X11/Xsession.d/60x11-common_xdg_path sets some vars.
<bluesabre> ah, k
<Unit193> I'm not sure what you are looking for.
<bluesabre> trying to figure out where I can set environment vars that we're interested in
<Unit193> Is /etc/profile.d/ a better place then?
<bluesabre> yeah, I think so (just came across that)
<Unit193> !xy
<ubottu> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<Unit193> :P
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> Maybe micahg would like to give input on how he'd like to set default env vars.
<micahg> what's the question?
<bluesabre> we're wanting to set default env vars
<bluesabre> export QT_STYLE_OVERRIDE=gtk
<bluesabre> for qt5 apps to use gtk theme
<bluesabre> export GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0
<bluesabre> to disable gtk 3.16 overlay scrollbars
<bluesabre> what's the best way to do that? :)
<micahg> good question
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> /etc/profile.d/ doesn't seem horrible...
<Unit193> !find /etc/profile.d/
<ubottu> Found: W:, W:, W:, W:, W:
<micahg> that's for bash rhoufh
<Unit193> !find /etc/profile.d/
<micahg> *though
<ubottu> File /etc/profile.d/ found in alliance, appmenu-qt5, bash-completion, byobu, click-bin-path, cloud-init, environment-modules, language-selector-common, libqmfmessageserver1, libvirt-bin (and 12 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=/etc/profile.d/&mode=&suite=wily&arch=any
<micahg> so, if you launch from shell you're good
<Unit193> Welp..
<Unit193> Sure it doesn't apply/
<micahg> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ ?  
<Unit193> !find /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
<ubottu> File /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ found in at-spi2-core, awesome, brightd, cinnamon-session-common, compiz-gnome, consolekit, dbus-x11, deejayd, desktop-profiles, edubuntu-live (and 27 others) http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=/etc/X11/Xsession.d/&mode=&suite=wily&arch=any
<Unit193> I guess so, seemed like more core though.
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<bluesabre> looks like the mate folks use it profile.d for gtk env vars https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-mate/ubuntu-mate-settings/files/head:/etc/profile.d/
<micahg> xfce4-session: /etc/X11/Xsession.d/55xfce4-session
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that seems like a winner
<bluesabre> :D
<micahg> it sets XDG_DATA_DIRS
<Unit193> So I noticed.
<Unit193> micahg: Oh, perhaps can you see my question in -motu?
<micahg> I did, I forgot
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11885898/ seems to work
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> How about checking 'XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP' for 'XFCE'?  Might ask US and Myth?
<bluesabre> wasn't sure how far we wanted to go
<bluesabre> is this xubuntu-default-settings or a patch for xfce4-session?
<Unit193> I thought x-d-s, but since you have that check... :D
<Unit193> zequence_ Perhaps might like to chime in?
<bluesabre> probably wouldn't hurt to mention to Corsac, though he is not a fan of configuring xfce in debian
<bluesabre> or adding qt configs
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> :D
<ochosi> morning
<ochosi> bluesabre: actually, can we do anything about having both nm-connection-editor *and* network-admin in the settings manager? ir really sucks that both have/use the same icon and from my side i can't do anything about that
<ochosi> bluesabre: for your convenience: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/releases/tag/v0.6
<ochosi> bluesabre: and as if that hadn't been convenient enough, here you go: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/wily/revision/287
<ochosi> bluesabre, Noskcaj: parole not starting in wily is likely also this: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11825
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11825 in General "Parole segmentation fault related to gtk3/clutter/cogl update" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> ochosi: awesome!
<ochosi> yeah, had a productive morning ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: make a bug report for the two network managers and we can do something about it (probably hide one for xubuntu)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> okeydokey, i'll consider it, actually they do different things though
<ochosi> it's just silly that both use the same icon and all
<ochosi> anyway, hf and ttyl
<bluesabre> ochosi: so, next up are greybird and lo-theme tags, right?
<ochosi> bluesabre: yup
<ochosi> bluesabre: if we modify quite a few gtk3 defaults, i'm wondering whether we should expose those via xfce4-appearance-settings in the settings tab as checkboxes
<pleia2> doing CC check-in now in #ubuntu-meeting w/ xubuntu
<bluesabre> ochosi: maybe... but if there is no equivalent in gtk2, it almost seems silly
<bluesabre> it would also be a lot of gtk runtime checks (okay, so between 3.6 and 3.10 I have these annoyances, etc)
<Unit193> bluesabre: We had the CC catchup today, they've rejected you as the tech lead and will now tar and feather you.
<Unit193> ...Or maybe I wasn't paying enough attention.
<bluesabre> sounds fairly accurate
<bluesabre> hopefully they are giving me travel expenses to go get tarred and feathered
<bluesabre> awww, no mention in the logs of tar or feathers
<bluesabre> and we're still doing a great job
<bluesabre> go team!
<bluesabre> and because not everybody will know where to look....
<bluesabre> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/07/16/%23ubuntu-meeting.txt
<bluesabre> ochosi: very happy to see this commit...
<bluesabre> Notice(SwissBot) -> #xubuntu-devel: ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r433 Style over- and undershoot... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<bluesabre> going to work on cleaning the apartment now, but ping if you need me, I'll try to pay attention
<bluesabre> pleia2, ochosi, micahg, Unit193 -- sorry I couldn't make it to the CC meeting, but thanks for holding down the fort
<bluesabre> (not that you needed my input) ;)
<Unit193> Heh, I mostly just heckled from the sidelines, but sure.
<pleia2> ^ true story
<pleia2> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-17
<Noskcaj-school> I've reverted the upstream clutter commit which made gdk the default backend, which fixes parole. Should i put this in the staging ppa?
<Noskcaj-school> And do we wait for an upstream responce or should we ask the desktop team if we can revert the change in ubuntu
<Noskcaj-school> Or should we just not use clutter until it's fixed?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj-school: we should either communicate with upstream about it or at least get it in ubuntu (since it also affects totem)
<bluesabre> and I'll change our default to xv in the next default-settings upload
<Noskcaj-school> bluesabre: Couldn't we just remove the --enable-clutter from parole to fix our default?
<Noskcaj-school> And i'll ask in -desktop now
<bluesabre> Noskcaj-school: we actually have the default config set to clutter... normally its set to XV
<Noskcaj-school> ok
<bluesabre> we chose clutter since it could do software acceleration and work in vbox and elsewhere
<bluesabre> until now, when it doesn't work at all that is ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: just so you know, Greybird is 1.6-ready, just for
<ochosi> got to tag yesterday and now i'm on my way, hope i'll get to it tonight
<ochosi> bbl
<bluesabre> ochosi: excellent
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, beat myself to it: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/latest
<Guest40123> Hi 
<Guest40123> Hello 
<pleia2> http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-linux-is-being-used-to-teach-students-at-colegio-hispano-americano-in-puerto-rico-487132.shtml
<knome> :)
<knome> "new series"
<bluesabre> "In the latest interview article" at least they do pay some attention though
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> cool to see the article get picked up
<bluesabre> great job again pleia2 :D
<knome> yep, ++
<Unit193> knome: I've been ACK'ing all the BTS stuff as that's the email set for the package(s).
<knome> mmkay.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-18
<bluesabre> ochosi: going to update the copyrights for libreoffice-style-elementary... then it should be just up to you tagging a release for it
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome: so, here's my proposed license for the libreoffice-style-elementary theme http://pad.ubuntu.com/lo-style-elementary-copyright
<bluesabre> s/license/copyright-file
<knome> bluesabre, you can use pasi@shimmerproject.org for my email
<knome> or i can do that myself :)
<knome> removed the dot after the l-s-e GPL note for consistency
<bluesabre> knome: thanks
<ali1234> okay why does my numlock key keep turning off?
<bluesabre> probably a greeter issue or something
<bluesabre> can use this as a workaround it seems https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/numlock-turns-on-ubuntu-mate/1215
<ali1234> i have not logged out since i installed
<ali1234> numlock turns off randomly every day
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> thats bizarre
<slickymaster> Unit193, downloaded. Next monday will test it in VB
<bluesabre> Unit193: don't suppose you know if anything is missing from the next x-d-s upload?
<bluesabre> :D
<krytarik> bluesabre: Since you are asking, the default font for both the terminal and Mousepad should be Droid Sans Mono too, rather than DejaVu Sans Mono. :P
<bluesabre> krytarik: actually, we changed that from Droid Sans Mono at one point in the past because it was less readable, iirc
<bluesabre> I'd have to check around the commits for that :)
<Unit193> Not offhand.
<knome> bluesabre, you're correct, dejavu sans mono isn't a mistake
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm taking a look at the copyright thingy now
<ochosi> looks good to me
<ochosi> i guess that one's a go
<ochosi> bluesabre: pushed the new copyrights file and dropped the other ones
<ochosi> thanks!
<ochosi> bluesabre: and released: https://github.com/shimmerproject/libreoffice-style-elementary/releases/tag/v0.1
<ochosi> when i have the time, i'll blog about it (or anyone else can, if they want to, currently it's too hot here for doing much work)
<ochosi> bluesabre: also lemme know when you upload all that artwork stuff so i can check it off the blueprint
<ochosi> enough for one evening, night everyone
<sorinello> Hello. Does anyone here knows a bit of GTK ?
<knome> sorinello, while this isn't the GTK channel, why not ask the real question and find out?
<knome> night ochosi 
<sorinello> Hello :) I am playing/learning a bit GTK. The idea is that I have a small window with a gtk_entry, on which I have set a signal_connect. But I don't know how to pass data to it.
<sorinello> I am using this:   g_signal_connect (text_entry, "activate", G_CALLBACK (print_event), data);
<knome> ok, you'd be much better off in a real gtk channel
<sorinello> I've already asked
<bluesabre> hey sorinello
<sorinello> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> that looks right
<sorinello> bluesabre, yes, the problem is that I want to pass the contents of the gtk_entry to the callback function
<sorinello> and I don't know how to get the contents :) 
<sorinello> I tried: g_signal_connect (text_entry, "activate", G_CALLBACK (print_event), gtk_entry_get_text(text_entry)); but I get a compilation error
<bluesabre> you get the data for the widget in the callback function
<bluesabre> gtk_entry_get_text(GtkEntry *entry)
<sorinello> so from the activate function, how do I declare the data variable ?
<bluesabre> the callback follows this format
<bluesabre> void
<bluesabre> user_function (GtkEntry *entry,
<bluesabre>                gpointer  user_data)
<bluesabre> so in that function, just use gtk_entry_get_text on the entry that is connected
<sorinello> ok, but g_signal_connect (text_entry, "activate", G_CALLBACK (print_event), data); the "data" variable, how do I declare it, what type ?
<bluesabre> for data, just use NULL
<bluesabre> since you're not passing anything extra in
<sorinello> okay
<sorinello> my user function has this signature
<sorinello> void
<sorinello> print_event(GtkWidget * widget, gpointer data)
<sorinello> I guess I'll have to replace GtkWidget with GtkEntry
<bluesabre> you can do that, or cast the widget to GtkEntry
<bluesabre> there might be a newer one for gtk3, but this should all still be relevant https://developer.gnome.org/gtk-tutorial/stable/
<bluesabre> I've gotta run out for dinner, but you should be able to get a lot of answers from that
<sorinello> bluesabre, It worked. Thanks a lot !
#xubuntu-devel 2015-07-19
<bluesabre> ochosi: great, I'll work on the artwork tonight
<bluesabre> Unit193, micahg: you guys around?
<bluesabre> was wondering if you have an opinion on packaging lo-style-elementary with xubuntu-artwork.  The icon themes install a zip file and a link... would it be wrong to just provide the zip file as is in the package source, or should we actually do the "build" step of zipping up the icons in the rules file
<bluesabre> crap, didn't think about this, but if it's going to be upstreamed, it won't work in xubuntu-artwork for one reason
<bluesabre> libreoffice-style-elementary_15.10.1_all.deb
<bluesabre> vs libreoffice 5
<bluesabre> or maybe
<bluesabre> since lo is already epoched
<bluesabre> libreoffice_style_human: 1:4.4.4~rc3-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> dashes that is, 1:4.4.4~rc3-0ubuntu1libreoffice-style-human: 1:4.4.4~rc3-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> https://github.com/shimmerproject/libreoffice-style-elementary being the source?  I don't see a zip anyway, soo?
<bluesabre> yeah, just feels weird since xubuntu-artwork doesn't currently do any building
<bluesabre> so gotta make a makefile and whatnot
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ubuntu's overlay scrollbars are completely gone now, right?
<bluesabre> well, the package still exists for them, so won't drop the patches yet
<bluesabre> starting to wonder if numix 2.0 is ever going to be finished
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> :(
<bluesabre> actually, looks like Albatross and Numix might be due for some new releases, been a while since their last releases and they have a few fixes between
<bluesabre> ochosi: ^
<bluesabre> I'll upload that tomorrow in case you want to hook me up with at least one of those ;)
<bluesabre> I can at least do xubuntu-default-settings before I go to bed
<bluesabre> heading to bed now, bbl
<bluesabre> xubuntu-default-settings uploaded, should bring lots of nice fixes to tomorrow's image
<bluesabre> I might finish this artwork package sometime today
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> micahg: do you have any feedback on https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/wily/revision/288 ?
<bluesabre> adds libreoffice-style-elementary to xubuntu-artwork
<bluesabre> I imagine I'll have to raise a conversation up with ubuntu-devel and the lo packaging team before this gets accepted when I upload it
<micahg> bluesabre: is there a reason for this not to be its own sourcE?
<micahg> also, I think it should be Enhances: libreoffice-core, not Recommends
<bluesabre> micahg: I copied libreoffice-style-human's recommends
<micahg> sounds like that's wrong too :)
<bluesabre> micahg: no particular reason for it to not be its own source, but work is underway to include it in libreoffice upstream
<micahg> ah, that's good news
<bluesabre> probably won't be included before 5.0 if I had to guess :)
<bluesabre> but yeah, I can make this it's own source package if we'd like.  I included it in xubuntu-artwork since the elementary theme is in xubuntu-icon-theme (xubuntu-artwork source package)
<micahg> ok, one of the things with a source is that it should connect to an upstream, is this the same upstream as the elementary theme?
<micahg> usually the homepage and Vcs-* fields are used to reflect the upstream
<micahg> if Xubuntu is upstream, that's fine, but I don't think that's the case here
<bluesabre> shimmerproject is upstream for the icon theme and lo theme, https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce https://github.com/shimmerproject/libreoffice-style-elementary
<bluesabre> we do snapshots of the icon theme and commit that to lp:xubuntu-artwork
<bluesabre> shimmer is knome and ochosi
<micahg> ah, you mentioned a zip file before
<micahg> if we're upstream, yeah, it's fine in xubuntu-artwork
<bluesabre> yeah, instead of doing the zip snapshot, I included the source and added a makefile to build and install the zip
<bluesabre> but i'm flexible ;)
<micahg> oh, lo needs the zip?
<bluesabre> yeah, lo icon themes are contained and read from the zip file (and an associated symlink
<micahg> I have to run now, I'll have to take a look later (we should probably fix LO needing a zip for icons...)
<micahg> we == Ubuntu
<bluesabre> is there anything we can do about that? it's like that upstream with LO
<micahg> so, at the moment, I think the only suggestion I have is to change recommends to enhances, but I can look at some other packages later to verify
<bluesabre> ok
<micahg> yeah, well, we have an LO dev on the desktop team 
<bluesabre> I'll be around most of the day, so you can ping me anytime
<bluesabre> cool
<micahg> ok, probably back in 6-7 hours
<bluesabre> k, have fun!
<ochosi> evening all
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> hey knome 
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks for all the updates
<ochosi> i talked to satya about numix, he's still planning to finish the SASS port (aka v2) as soon as possible, but i guess he's also busy with work atm
<ochosi> also, i don't think our icon theme for LO will make it upstream for 5.0
<ochosi> maybe for later
<ochosi> i can take another look at albatross, but we're not even installing that one by default anymore
<ochosi> so i'm not sure i really wanna spend time on that
<knome> maybe i'll look at it some point...
<ochosi> k, perfect :)
<knome> maybe!
<knome> no promises
<ochosi> sure sure
<ochosi> as always
<knome> ;)
<knome> anything you'd fancy working on today, or shall i look for something to do with other hobbies? :)
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> could do something
<ochosi> atm i wanna investigate why status.ubuntu doesn't receive updates anymore
<ochosi> not really sure anymore who to ask
<ochosi> forgot who was in charge of that
<knome> right...
<knome> iirc, chrisccoulson
<knome> and others
<knome> https://launchpad.net/launchpad-work-items-tracker
<knome> i guess i forgot :)
<knome> pitti, cjohnston and apw
<ochosi> would suck if that were retired
<knome> mmmeehh.
<knome> yeah.
<ochosi> after all, that was one of the main drivers of using launchpad blueprints for progress tracking
<ochosi> (apart from bug-linking)
<knome> otoh, it doesn't sound like a task TOO big to set that up, considering the LP API actually works
<knome> i could look at that briefly today
<ochosi> you mean setting it up for ourselves?
<knome> yep
<ochosi> *if* we do it, then i'd say let's improve the css dramatically :)
<knome> likely not the same codebase, but something
<knome> yeah
<knome> and the usability generally
<ochosi> and let's integrate it into x.org/development or something
<knome> right...
<knome> considering the code needs to go through the IS, i can't promise how soon that'll happen
<ochosi> sure
<knome> but we can surely set it up *somewhere*
<ochosi> well, we can set it up elsewhere meanwhile
<knome> yes
<knome> hmm.
<knome> i must have done some lp hacking already
<knome> this looks so familiar
<ochosi> so you're already looking?
<knome> oh right, *that*...
<knome> yeah, i am
<knome> just briefly, remind you
<knome> pffft
<ochosi> hhmm, albatross would really need a lot of attention in order to be okay again
<knome> yep...
<ochosi> no rules for .flat buttons, etc etc
<knome> oh stupid
<ochosi> toolbars have the wrong bg in gtk3
<ochosi> even many linked buttons don't look alright
<ochosi> plus indicators are seemingly broken
<ochosi> which might be the worst part
<ochosi> ok, fixed that latter part
<knome> hah
<knome> well if that was the worst part...
<bluesabre> ochosi: only mentioned albatross because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1314977/comments/1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1314977 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "GTK3 Theme parsing error in gtk-widgets.css of Albatross theme" [Low,Fix committed]
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> fixing the .flat style now
<ochosi> then we can upload a new version of it
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> ok, please give this a spin now
<ochosi> should work quite a bit better
<ochosi> but tbh i haven't looked very closely cause greybird and albatross are already massively out of sync
<ochosi> so it's hard to say whether i got everything right
<ochosi> (rebasing is not an option)
<ochosi> (at least not for me)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: so what was the conclusion today wrt LO icons? xubuntu-artwork for now?
<ochosi> also, this one should be marked fix released as soon as you upload greybird 1.6
<bluesabre> ochosi: will do
<bluesabre> yeah, xubuntu-artwork
<bluesabre> albatross seems ok to me
<ochosi> meh, no button-default style 
<ochosi> this theme is really lacking in so many aspects
<sorinello> what are you working i guys ?:)
<sorinello> *on
<bluesabre> one of our legacy gtk themes
<ochosi> different things, currently artwork/theme updates
<sorinello> that's nice. so you're doing design work ? 
<knome> the LP API is pretty generous on the data... https://api.launchpad.net/devel/ubuntu/+spec/topic-w-flavor-xubuntu/dependencies
<bluesabre> knome: nice
<sorinello> I only see an unformatted json here :)
<knome> i said "API"
<ochosi> knome: sweet, looking forward to a first draft of our own status page ;)
<knome> it'll be done by the end of the week
<knome> no kiddinf
<knome> *kidding
<sorinello> so you're working on the future version of xfce I take it ?
<sorinello> or this is xubuntu related
<knome> this is minor play compared to the API i used to scrape off information last week...
<bluesabre> sorinello: xfce development is on #xfce-dev, this is xubuntu-related development and updates on this channel :)
<bluesabre> (sometimes overlaps, but not at this moment)
<sorinello> yeah, I know. But Xubuntu doesn't use the vanilla xfce ? 
<ochosi> no
<bluesabre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
<ochosi> try fedora, that's supposedly vanilla xfce
<sorinello> I thought fedora uses KDE
<sorinello> thanks for the link.
<ochosi> bluesabre: just to make it easier for you: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Albatross/releases/tag/v1.7.4
<bluesabre> ochosi: nice, thanks a lot!
<bluesabre> I'll upload with this then
<ochosi> good good
<bluesabre> ochosi: ubuntu's overlay scrollbars... are they completely gone as of wily?
<ochosi> i think they should be
<ochosi> not sure whether they've taken them out of the archive already though
<ochosi> but we could ask larsu or Laney tomorrow
<bluesabre> still in the archive, so I suppose we should carry the patches for them a bit longer
<ochosi> yeah, i guess so
<ochosi> well, could be that they drop it at some point
<bluesabre> I'll upload shimmer-themes later tonight, look for them tomorrow with some closed bug reports
<ochosi> but i think some u-dev folks were unhappy with the gtk3 scrollbars
<ochosi> nice
<bluesabre> ochosi: understandably, they're pretty bad compared to what ubuntu had before
<bluesabre> but meh :D
<ochosi> even with adwaita?
<bluesabre> adwaita's fine since they are 2px wide, but then they are crappy for clickable scrollbars
<ochosi> oh, they're always 2px wide?
<bluesabre> I'd have to check again
<bluesabre> no hurry to do that though
<ochosi> right, that's not very a11y friendly i guess
<ochosi> wonder what hicontrast theme does
<ochosi> ok, hicontrast also has a 2px scrollbar
<ochosi> i guess in most cases thin scrollbars are ok
<ochosi> but i guess some folks still wanna click and drag scrollbars...
<ochosi> oh crap
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, it's a theming issue
<ochosi> adwaita does what i would expect it to do
<ochosi> thin scrollbar when the mouse isnt there, when you hover, it extends and becomes clickable
<ochosi> guess i'll add that too for greybird 1.6.1
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> that sounds not as bad then
<ochosi> that's pretty ideal if you ask me
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbabl
<ochosi> right, so ambiance also hasn't been patched for those scrollbars (the scss makes for some complex css), hence the complaints about it i guess
<ochosi> anyway, time to go to sleep
<knome> nighty ochosi 
<ochosi> night knome 
<bluesabre> and I'm back
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> :(
<knome> what?
<bluesabre> shimmer-themes is out of the xubuntu packageset again
<knome> aha...
<bluesabre> micahg: can you take a look at that? :)
<bluesabre> somehow it keeps getting taken over by the kubuntu packageset http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/wily/kubuntu
<micahg> bluesabre: sure
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> bbiab
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-18
<knome> pleia2, not a great amount of #lovexubuntu submissions :/ we should bang it more...
<bluesabre> knome: maybe show of some examples or current submissions so people have something to base off of?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-19
<flocculant> bluesabre: I assume we'll be letting people upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04 knowing that there is the cursor bug? 
<flocculant> I'll mail testers when infinity has respun if we are
<ax562> flocculant cursor bug?
<flocculant> yes the invisible cursor issue
<ax562> I don't thinks I have noticed it
<flocculant> ax562: if you used intel you would
<ax562> well I've thrown xubuntu on quiet a bit of intel machines
<ax562> is that in terminal?
<flocculant> bug 1568604
<ubottu> bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Xenial) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1568604
<ax562> hmmm
<ax562> I have another lappy here that is an i7.  Plan on throwing xubuntu 16.04 on it tomorrow.  I can verify it.
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> no real need to verify it - ~400 people have done that ;)
<ax562> lol
<ax562> let me know if I can help
<ax562> :)
<flocculant> Unit193 or bluesabre would know the exact requirement - but we apparently need the driver bisected to see which commit solves the problem :)
<flocculant> so if you can help with that I'm sure they'll be happy bunnies
<flocculant> morning ochosi ;)
<ax562> ok...I would have to really dig in deep to figure out what the details of the bug are
<bluesabre> ax562: yes, please help if at all possible
<bluesabre> I'm a bit lacking on the intel front, and none of the commits jump out and say "aha!"
<bluesabre> it
<bluesabre> 's almost certainly more than a single commit that is responsible for the fix
<akxwi-dave> just dragged out a Lenovo dual core withintel to test stuff like that as well.
<ax562> bluesabre ok, I will try my best.  I wont have the machine until tomorrow.  I think I had 12.04 on it but not sure.
<ax562> lol It's already tomorrow...later today I meant
<flocculant> bluesabre: I assume that no comment means yes we'll release .1 even though it's no good for intel 
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, I think so
<bluesabre> we can offer suggestions to alleviate it, replacing light-locker with xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver for instance
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<Tims_Tech> is here the devil ?
<akxwi-dave> The iso's for xenial 16.04.1 are not available from the link on the tracker
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: I know - and -release will if they read what I said 
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> not sure they did 
<flocculant> they'll wake up when there's no results for anyone 
<akxwi-dave> will they.. look what happened with the last install bug.. :-)
<flocculant> well the same thing's been said on the -release mailing list too so ... 
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2016-July/003807.html
<akxwi-dave> lol lets see then.. if theuy are ready tonight/tomorrow, I'll give them a bash
<flocculant> you can get to the iso - you just need to fiddle about a bit
<akxwi-dave> time to go. .. and hit the rush hour traffice in 31 deg heat..  cya later
<flocculant> have fun
<akxwi-dave> cheers
<ochosi> flocculant: evening flocculant :)
<flocculant> hah touche (acute lingy thing)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-20
<flexiondotorg> o/
<flexiondotorg> Just wondering how the Xubuntu 16.04.1 image testing is going?
<flocculant> not started yet 
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> just started :p
<flexiondotorg> :-)
<flexiondotorg> Yep, I was up early to day to do the same :-)
<flocculant> I'll get a couple done before work and see if anyone has responded to the mail thread 
<flocculant> resize left to check on 64 bit now
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: tbh I don't expect to see any issues with the installer at this point, so mostly a smoke test issue
<flexiondotorg> Yep. Community testing feedback is good.
<flocculant> more interested in if the lts - lts upgrade explodes or not
<flexiondotorg> I'm just making sure the OEM install works.
<flexiondotorg> Fortunately, I don't have that test case ;-)
<flexiondotorg> LTS to LTS.
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> not this time at least :)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, Just to advise about i386 iso testing (can't log it at moment, as works internet provider, is having dns issues and cannot get back onto ubuntu or xubuntu sites)
<akxwi-dave> Full dsk install worked fine, live session fine and post install fine
<akxwi-dave> however boot session had a problem.. not option to choose "Try" i.e live or "install".. iso booted staright to live session.. so install was direct from live.
<bluesabre> flocculant: known fix for the disappearing cursor? https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fproyectosbeta.net%2F2016%2F07%2Fcomo-hacer-que-no-desaparezca-mas-el-puntero-del-mouse-despues-de-suspender-ubuntu-16-04%2F&edit-text=&act=url
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: thanks - I'll check - then try the ubuntu 32bit too
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: can't confirm that issue here (not vbox) looks ok to me
<flocculant> bluesabre: I have *seen* that - but I've not actually tried it - also while that maybe works - how would someone with intel xenial and that workround know when it wasn't needed (after sru)?
<bluesabre> flocculant: dunno, just keeping our options open
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> not sure I'll have time to check it works or not today - but no mad rush imo - we can always add to the release note on x.org I guess
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> just trying to get as much smoketesting of installs done before tomorrow
<bluesabre> I should be able to pick up some tests this evening
<flocculant> 64bit are all done - 32bit will be lacking I expect
<flocculant> depends what I manage to fit in later
<flocculant> but - any tests by someone other than QA are welcome for sure :p
<bluesabre> certainly
<flocculant> I've got 64 bit lts to lts done - passed ok - obviously a vanilla install
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I can try it on my home desktop
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you got to the https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1568604 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Xenial) "Mouse cursor lost when unlocking with Intel graphics" [High,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> It's gone through 12.04 to 14.04
<flocculant> and search for uxa - that works - but with issues arising 
<bluesabre> I see
<flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1568604/comments/82
<flocculant> for instance
<flocculant> and comment 75 for an easier way to do that 20-intel
<flocculant> bluesabre: so not sure about telling people to do that - I will leave the decision to the Tech Lead :p
<flocculant> if he says ok then I'll say ok then ... :)
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> wait
<bluesabre> :P
<bluesabre> I'll think about it and look at whats up
<bluesabre> do we have draft release notes on x.org already?
<flocculant> bluesabre: don't be silly billy :)
<flocculant> not looked at any sort of note yet - far down the list it is 
<flocculant> I'll try and get that started before you're about again this evening 
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool, maybe knome, ochosi, Unit193, etc etc might help with that as well
<flocculant> pretty much all we need is link to original release note - I'm pretty sure all bugs are still there - I will double check those
<flocculant> certainly the 2 big bugs are still current e.g. intel and thunar
<flocculant> 32 bit lts to lts on the go now
<flocculant> couple of 32 bit .1 tests to deal with 
<flocculant> bluesabre: back to work for me - have a good day :)
<bluesabre> same here, cya flocculant 
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, Yep, mine was under vbox, also got a graphics anomaly during boot up..will test on real hardware tonite
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - something happening to x.org which would stop me being able to login and create new? 
<flocculant> all I seem to get is option to play with profile ... 
<flocculant> davmor2: do you know offhand if the lts to lts upgrade path is turned on yet? 
<flocculant> still having to force the upgrade here
<davmor2> flocculant: no that will be 14.04.5 I think but infinity can comfirm
<flocculant> oh
<flocculant> so when 16.04.1 releases there'll still be no 14.04> 16.04 update? 
<flocculant> how odd
<flocculant> that said now I think about it - I saw mention of sometime August ... 
<flocculant> davmor2: reading -release now :p
<davmor2> it seemed sensible to ask the people that might know :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> so we might actually manage to get our big SRU sorted prior to 14.04>16.04 which would be rather awesome :p
<flocculant> not much fun having a bug with rather high heat ... 
<flocculant> till I bothered to turn of notifications from the bug 
<flocculant> or not 
<flocculant> bluesabre: so - lts upgrade should be turned on early next week apparently, just .1 release this week
<pleia2> flocculant: no, when you logged in, were your team memberships checked in the ubuntu one screen?
<pleia2> it's still working ok for me
<flocculant> pleia2: yep - both 
<flocculant> unless I got wrong url ... https://xubuntu.org/wp-login
<pleia2> no, that's right
<flocculant> mmm
<pleia2> probably have to ask IS, we have no admin power to see other users these days
<flocculant> pleia2: working now - logged in with them unchecked, logged out, logged in with teams again
<flocculant> must be the Mysterons playing games
<pleia2> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: do we actually need to say much about the .1 release? 
<flocculant> there doesn't appear to be any of our stuff changed - will be general updates though
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-21
<flocculant> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> morning flocculant 
<flocculant> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey!
<bluesabre> this timezone thing... :P
<bluesabre> flocculant: need anything from me this morning (small time window)
<flocculant> bluesabre: nah unless you're miraculously going to say the sru for intel is in proposed :p
<bluesabre> Sure, I can say that.... it'd be a lie though ;)
<flocculant> oh yea actually - any real reason to do any sort of release note for this point ? nothing's changed since 
<flocculant> lol
<flocculant> and obviously I meant a miraculous fix not you miraculously saying something :D
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> yeah, nothing really to mention
<bluesabre> GTK3 Firefox and Thunderbird now
<flocculant> ok - I'll not bother then 
<bluesabre> but that's not really something to mention
<bluesabre> maybe a general announcement on x.org that lists known issues
<flocculant> bluesabre: so "See Xenial release notes for issues" 
<bluesabre> and mentions that 14.04 > 16.04 upgrade notifications will start in the coming days
<bluesabre> or something like that
<bluesabre> yes
<flocculant> could reiterate the intel thing - we can at least say sru in the works 
<flocculant> ok - that's all simple enough then
<bluesabre> yes, that'd be good
<flocculant> ok - I'll knock that together when I'm properly back from work
<bluesabre> alrighty, thanks flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll make sure the intel warning is prominent - lts upgraders might want to wait 
<flocculant> bluesabre: one thing - what do you want to do about the 'workround' ?
<flocculant> the 20-intel.conf thing in particular
<flocculant> bbl
<flocculant> pleia2 knome and anyone else interested ... ok - done at least something for the .1 release note and changed the widget to match it
<flocculant> bluesabre: specifically warbled about thunar/intel/fglrx/sru
<pleia2> flocculant: thank you, looks good
<flocculant> good good :)
<flocculant> did think about some sort of "you might want to delay if you intel and lock"
<flocculant> then hunger got the better of me - biab :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: this is apparently a pita,  bug 1598316
<ubottu> bug 1598316 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "gtk2-engines-murrine desktop text shadow problem" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1598316
 * pleia2 shares on social media
<flocculant> pleia2: thanks - really must toddle off - getting a bit shaky, not eaten since yesterday :)
<pleia2> flocculant: eep, have a good evening
<ochosi> wow, what an annoying bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk2-engines-murrine/+bug/1598316
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1598316 in gtk2-engines-murrine (Ubuntu) "gtk2-engines-murrine desktop text shadow problem" [High,Triaged]
<ochosi> luckily i don't use desktop icons or i'd be totally bummed out
<ochosi> crazy that there can still be bugs in a gtk2 engine..
<flocculant> ochosi: :p
<flocculant> I think the issue isn't so much that there's a bug - but that it was fine till there was an update :)
<flocculant> and good evening to you
<ochosi> good evening!
<flocculant> it is now I've eaten something
<ochosi> :)
<knome> flocculant, thanks, i only today came back from my trip...
<flocculant> knome: yup - remembered in the end :)
<knome> :)
<knome> i can look at stuff tomorrow if needed
<flocculant> not sure there's a need
<knome> i said can...
<knome> :)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> migth want to tag it 
<flocculant> sorting the widget was enough for me :p
<ochosi> Unit193, bluesabre: this ^ could be valuable to be backported to 16.04 (if you have time)
<Unit193> flocculant: You there?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-22
<flocculant> knome: having trouble logging into x.org - torrent links are wrong on getxubuntu
<flocculant> Unit193: no I wasn't :p
<flocculant> knome: forget that - seems login is jittery ... all done
<Unit193> flocculant: Got an email about -core.
<Unit193> There's the link.
<knome> flocculant, okay, i'll forget :P
<flocculant> knome: if I get the same again I guess I ought to go to IS 
<knome> flocculant, try cleaning cache first if it reappears
<flocculant> knome: I tried logging right out of sso - seems to have sorted it
<flocculant> ochosi: just a mention here cos I know how you are with how things look ... grabbed new tbird from yak -proposed and it looks like this > http://i.imgur.com/Ikwp9uR.png
<flocculant> which isn't dissimilar from the LO stuff you replaced with 'elementary'
<flocculant> knome: ok - so the community council have now had 4 weeks, we've heard nothing since one said they were looking in the 3rd week
<flocculant> !team | I think we should just move on with the council idea now
<ubottu> I think we should just move on with the council idea now: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> the hard bit's done - all we need to do now is change the section of strategy doc and then get a council sorted 
<flocculant> to be honest I only thought we should cc the CC in because it was called a council - they had no input on xpl
<flocculant> and trying to be polite :)
<Unit193> Problem?
<flocculant> Unit193: not at all - just think we should move it all along now
<flocculant> they've had long enough to at least comment :)
<pleia2> it is disappointing that it's taking so long :(
<flocculant> pleia2: yup
<pleia2> I'm not looped in, but maybe one final email saying we're moving forward?
<flocculant> a response other than 'we're looking' 3 weeks ago
<flocculant> pleia2: as long as that doesn't then entail waiting another month ;)
<flocculant> at least it's the post-lts cycle \o/ 
<flocculant> mhall119: ^^ 
<flocculant> there - that's as good as an e-mail :D
<Unit193> They're all on IRC, poke 'em all. :P
<davmor2> flocculant: do you know how hard it is to find a distant star that hasn't been name it takes a while of looking ;)
<flocculant> Unit193: yup - but one is in here :D
<flocculant> davmor2: heh
<davmor2> Unit193: this isn't pokemon go you know 
<flocculant> phew
 * flocculant had an idjit walk in front of him doing that stupid
<flocculant> davmor2 should remember we do have an -offtopic to take the mickey :p
<mhall119> flocculant: sorry, we did a round of email-voting, I think we haven't heard from all members yet, but those that did respond were all +1
<mhall119> so I think we can all start planning the steps for implementing this change
<flocculant> mhall119: thanks for responding :)
 * davmor2 take the mickey I've never been so offended.........wait is that the right word........no...........pleased with myself in a long time ;)
<mhall119> flocculant: I'll send out a formal email, where do you want it sent?
<flocculant> mhall119: frankly our plan is now to transfer the wording from the mail lists to replace the XPL section of http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/xsd.html 
<flocculant> mhall119: send it to pasi, CC me please
<flocculant> then we'll do the next bits 
<mhall119> ack
<flocculant> thanks Michael
<flocculant> mhall119: basically we'll be replacing that xpl bit with council bit 
<flocculant> mhall119: it would help us enormously if CC realises that once we've done that, if you want some sort of change - we are also wanting to replace XPL asap - as we don't really have one currently
<flocculant> although ochosi is listed - he's doing that so we have someone in control - what he really wants is the council sorted out
<mhall119> flocculant: not sure I follow, do you need the CC's help in replacing the XPL? Or in recruiting members to the new council?
<flocculant> mhall119: no not at all - we just need the CC to read and respond sooner rather than after we ping people :) 
<flocculant> all the real stuff is done :)
<mhall119> flocculant: email sent
<flocculant> cheers
<ochosi> flocculant: that looks ok, no? or what would be the problem..?
<knome> just forwarded mhall119's mail to the devel list as i see no reason not to
<knome> mhall119, as i see it, i don't think we need any help from CC in the practical side of it, just the ack
<flocculant> ochosi: that's fine then - just thought I would mention it - looks to me much the same as the thinh which was default in LO for a while
<flocculant> sifr
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/4nRN6E3.png
<flocculant> which we didn't like ;)
<ochosi> oh right, well i think thunderbird has its own icon themes and i don't use it personally, so i have extremely little incentive to make one :)
<ochosi> i also thought it had looked like that for a while already, but then again i don't use thunderbird anymore
<ochosi> flocculant: ^
<flocculant> ochosi: works for me - I just thought I would tell you is all :)
<flocculant> I've really got no bones in this fire at all
<flocculant> mail to list just setting out what's needed for pleia2's archive
<flocculant> imo of course
<Unit193> ochosi: You still there, sparky?
<Unit193> ochosi: Not sure you've seen Debian 829155, but very related.
<ubottu> Debian bug 829155 in murrine-themes "murrine-themes: Please split into separate packages" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/829155
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-23
<ochosi> Unit193: hey there sparky2. i wasn't there anymore, but i think i saw this issue before (jbicha reported it on github as well) and this is why i migrated with greybird release numbers to match the gtk3 scheme
<Unit193> Mainly that 'greybird-gtk-theme' may show up in Debian.
<ochosi> sure, that's totally fine
#xubuntu-devel 2016-07-24
<Unit193> https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/greybird-gtk-theme_3.18.0+20160720.7b72fea.gtk320-1.html - https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/bluebird-gtk-theme_1.2-1.html - https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/blackbird-gtk-theme_0.4+20160704~ab4a30e-1.html - https://ftp-master.debian.org/new/albatross-gtk-theme_1.7.4-1.html
<Unit193> ochosi, bluesabre â
<ochosi> Unit193: oh nice, good for debian users :) i'll merge my gtk3.20 branch to master soon and do a release, basically wanna finalize the porting of the greeter theming first (80% there though)
<knome> ochosi, what's the status re: xubuntu team membership policy?
<ochosi> knome: did i miss an email or something?
<Unit193> ochosi: Yes we're kicking everyone off and starting over.
<ochosi> finally!
<Unit193> Except you, you can do all the work right?
<ochosi> absolutely!
<Unit193> Also, you're up for leading the council right?  And that means you'll be the only one on it considering no team members.
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> this is getting better all the time
<knome> ochosi, you didn't, i'm referring to the ancient discussion
<ochosi> knome: ah ok. well basically both candidates said they will contribute again, neither of them showed so far this cycle
<ochosi> at least not that i would've noticed
<knome> yes, and that's why i'm coming back to the question
<knome> granted, generally not a lot has happened, but...
<ochosi> yeah
<Unit193> ochosi: Those aforementioned packages made it through NEW.
<ochosi> humm, just pushed the greeter theming
<ochosi> guess i really should do the release this week then
<Unit193> Inform Corsac?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-17
<flocculant> makes sense to me
<knome> what? :P
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r523 Reduce the height of header- and titlebars... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> Locale change regarding #xubuntu in docs.
<knome> ahha
<knome> does LP recognize comments left for translators again?
<flocculant> no
<flocculant> it only recognises them the 3rd time
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin 0.1.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin-0-1-0-released-tp49550.html (by Viktor Odintsev)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.2.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-2-0-released-tp49551.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-18
<Unit193> Now someone needs to package xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin... Once that's done, what's the point of xfce4-indicator-plugin? :3
<flocculant> do they both work?
<Unit193> indicator-plugin houses indicators, including indicator-application.  statusnotifier-plugin handles application indicators (should handle KDE ones better.)
<flocculant> that's not what I asked :D
<Unit193> I'm telling you the objective parts!
<flocculant> lol
<Unit193> It's had a first release, I think Simon tried it.
<flocculant> I suppose I could put the hat on and grab it to build and see :p
<Unit193> I was going to do that, after it was packaged. :3
<flocculant> yea saw the chat in #xfce-dev with whoever
<flocculant> oh well I will wait till you've waited :D
<Unit193> nin<tab>,yeah.
<flocculant> yea thought so - also see them in here too 
<Unit193> Mhmm.
<flocculant> "The required package dbusmenu-gtk3-0.4 was not found on your system." didn't look wherever it's installed then ...
<Unit193> !info libdbusmenu-gtk3-dev artful
<ubottu> libdbusmenu-gtk3-dev (source: libdbusmenu): library for passing menus over DBus - GTK+ version developement files. In component main, is optional. Version 16.04.1+17.04.20170109.1-0ubuntu1 (artful), package size 35 kB, installed size 182 kB
<flocculant> oh silly me 
<flocculant> dev things ... 
<Unit193> Should be new enough.
<flocculant> this no right click terminal issue is a pain for me 
<flocculant> builds ok - not in the list of things to add to panel though
<flocculant> I guess because it's in /usr/local
<flocculant> anyway - night all 
<Unit193> "No right click" issue?
<flocculant> no terminal option in right click on desktop
<Unit193> Ahhh!
<Unit193> bluesabre: I presume you haven't tried the new plugin yet, aye?
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-19
<bluesabre> Unit193: which one?
<Unit193> statusnotifier.
<bluesabre> nope, I know absolutely nothing about that plugin
<Unit193> Replacement for indicator-application, sounds like it's nicer tbh.
<bluesabre> ooh
<bluesabre> Unit193: does that also do systray, or just indicators?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Application indicators, but it supports the full KDE spec, not just what the Ubuntu ones support.
<bluesabre> awesome
<bluesabre> Very interested to try this out then
<Unit193> And if it works, get the upgrader to remove indicator-application.
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> anybody pick the packaging up for this one yet, or should I experiment with it?
<Unit193> Oooooh, you're offering to do it? :D
<Unit193> I haven't yet, mainly because descriptions are hard.
<Unit193> (Yes, that's the reason...)
<bluesabre> ha
<bluesabre> Maybe I'll jot some descriptions down then
<Unit193> I had knome fix gtk-theme-config, I was going to hunt for the goodies wiki to get one for statusnotifier.  I'm fully willing to go over the packaging and nitpick if you want. :P
<bluesabre> Anything is fine for me
<bluesabre> Usually crunched for time, so might be the weekend until I have the package together
<bluesabre> will try to get something together tonight/tomorrow morning at least
<bluesabre> Unit193: surprisingly, the first package I threw together just worked, so now trying to tidy it up
<Unit193> Surprisingly?
<Unit193> Not sure if you saw me link, but I was made aware of https://github.com/rilian-la-te/xfce4-sntray-plugin too.
<ninetls> xfce4-indicator-plugin is still useful but it's better to use it without indicator-application
<bluesabre> cmake :o
<ninetls> there is an option to compile xfce4-indicator-plugin without indicator-application support
<bluesabre> Unit193: tossed it into https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/experimental
<ninetls> the problem is that ubuntu autostarts all indicator services including indicator-application-service
<ninetls> I don't know ubuntu policies, but if you planning to include the plugin to xubuntu, it's better to get rid of indicator-application package
<Unit193> ninetls: Right, which has -messages and -sound, the latter of which is nearly entirely replacable by -pulseaudio-plugin, and the former doesn't have all that much use.  And close, technically xfce4-indicator-plugin starts it via systemd.  And yes, as part of the upgrade process we can remove it.
<Unit193> (Thanks for the input).
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'll check it out "tomorrow"
<bluesabre> :)
<ninetls> actually I think my plugin can be modified to support all "watchers" (like indicator-application-service)
<ninetls> in this case user will be able to add multiple plugin and they won't conflict with another services
<ninetls> it's something like TODO for me
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...So it seems today is tomorrow, nicely done.
<Unit193> (But you know me, can't help but nitpick: http://paste.openstack.org/show/y1FMaKqBzZib8NLLD7XV/)
<Unit193> ...What did I do?  This isn't dh_install. >_>
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> thought about doing some of that, even had your latest parole package up, but just rolled with it
<Unit193> And knew if you waited, I'd do it? :P
<bluesabre> something like that
<bluesabre> didn't want to break anything, don't really know what a lot of things do :D
<bluesabre> my workflow is: 1) did anything break, 2) does lintian complain (much)
<Unit193> So yes, ignore the auto_install change, merge anything else you want (dpkg-dev is newer than that version even in trusty.)
<Unit193> Well, it breaks remmina's icon.
<Unit193> But builds in experimental, so yey.
<flocculant> Unit193: re -sound/-pulse I assume by nearly entirely you're ignoring the most useful things about -sound :p
<Unit193> flocculant: mpris2 support, yes.  Which I don't use.  Still fits "nearly"
<flocculant> no idea what that is - but if you mean listing media players, being able to interact with playslists - then yea that 
<Unit193> "yes that"
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> maybe I'll hack on that shortly
<bluesabre> time for work, bbl
<bluesabre> have fun flocculant, Unit193 
<flocculant> bluesabre: will do - just reporting a parole bug :p
<Unit193> Ooooh, mpris in pa-plug?
<Unit193> flocculant: While I don't use that feature really, I also haven't switched from -sound, because "it works" :P
<flocculant> yea - not something I actively use either - and have the xfce one in panel anyway
<flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1705243
<ubottu> bug 1705243 in parole (Ubuntu) "Play button inactive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705243
<Unit193> ninetls: Ctrl+rightclick in the statusnotifier plugin on, say, Skype still brings up the application's menu, not plugin menu.  Can confirm, remmina doesn't show an icon, everything else does.  The right click issue I can workaround by setting "Menu is primary action."
<ninetls> Unit193: why ctrl+right click should show the plugin menu?
<Unit193> Normal for Xfce panel plugins?  Works that way for Window buttons, systray, etc.  Thought that was expected.
<ninetls> with ctrl?
<ochosi> tbh i'd say the statusnotifier plugin should also show the plugin context menu in the right-click menu
<ochosi> alternatively you can append it as a submenu to whatever the indicator shows
<Unit193> ochosi: Left click Skype and it shows skype, right click and it shows the menu.
<ochosi> but switching to ctrl+rightclick is hard to guess
<ochosi> right, that sounds normal
<Unit193> Ctrl+rightclick is pretty much the Xfce norm though?
<ninetls> ctrl+right click is really a strange assumption
<ninetls> I never known about plugins which work different when ctrl key is used
<Unit193> Huh, all the rest of them show the plugin menu for that. :3
<ninetls> they show even without ctrl
<Unit193> Not systray or window buttons (minimized windows)
<ninetls> why not alt+right click or shift+right click
<ninetls> for me this work for window buttons without ctrl key
<Unit193> Beats me, would have to ask one of the Xfce fellas.
<ninetls> but for systray neither with ctrl or without work
<Unit193> Without ctrl I get options to min/max/etc/etc.  With Ctrl I get panel settings.
<ninetls> since systray items are external windows
<ninetls> the setting "menu is primary action" is designed for that
<ninetls> so users could always access plugin menu
<ninetls> but most of users will prefer left click to show/hide app I think
<ninetls> rather then displaying item's menu
<ninetls> s/then/than/
<Unit193> Eh, that doesn't work with all applications though, in fact that only works for one that I have.
<ninetls> yes, this works only for kde indicators
<ninetls> ubuntu indicators (appindicators) are less powerful
<Unit193> Telegram sadly uses the latter.
<ninetls> and doesn't support something besides menu
<ninetls> telegram has a complex logic
<ninetls> it checks your DE :D
<ninetls> Unit193: XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP= telegram-desktop
<ninetls> try to launch it so
<Unit193> VLC supports it.
<ochosi> Unit193: ctrl+rightclick is the norm for what in xfce?
<Unit193> ochosi: Panel plugins to show the plugin menu, eg try on the 'Window buttons' plugin where it shows what opened windows you have.
<Unit193> ninetls: I unset a few other vars to get that result.
<ochosi> Unit193: haha, i didn't know about that :')
<Unit193> ochosi: ...Huh.  Well it's quite useful!
<ochosi> yeah, it's not bad, but also not very discoverable (q.e.d.)
<Unit193> It might not be, don't know how I did, but guaranteed panel settings is certainly not something to break now.
<ninetls> I think I can add a ctrl+right click to force display plugin menu
<Unit193> ninetls: Thank you very much!
<ninetls> but this feature will be too undocumented
<Unit193> I don't suppose you'd have any idea on the remmina "issue"
<ninetls> Unit193: let's deal with remmina
<ninetls> I'm trying to do all consistently
<ninetls> Unit193: dbus-send --print-reply --session --dest=org.kde.StatusNotifierWatcher /StatusNotifierWatcher org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.GetAll string:org.kde.StatusNotifierWatcher
<ninetls> (I need the output)
<Unit193> Yeah, where some open the application and others open a menu isn't the most, but as long as they all show icons it's fine.  For that, string ":1.97/org/ayatana/NotificationItem/remmina_icon"
<ninetls> Unit193: nice, this string is what I wanted :D
<Unit193> Figured, though I could paste it all. :P
<ninetls> Unit193: dbus-send --print-reply --session --dest=:1.97 /org/ayatana/NotificationItem/remmina_icon org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties.GetAll string:org.kde.StatusNotifierItem
<ninetls> but now I need all output!
<Unit193> Figured, http://paste.openstack.org/show/615917
<ninetls> \/usr/share/icons hmm
<ninetls> (idk now to escape the first / character in irc!)
<ninetls> /usr/share/icons
<ninetls> yay, double //
<Unit193> / / for me (yes, I did type / / /)
<ninetls> it's a strange icon path
<ninetls> this dir is not for icons
<ninetls> but for icon themes
<ninetls> /usr/share/icons/Adwaita is valid icon theme path
<ninetls> /usr/share/icons is not
<Unit193> synergy and xpra have icons there, remmina is under a subdir.
<ninetls> it seems I should somehow fallback and try to always load the icon
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/615918
<ninetls> that's interesting
<Unit193> Hah!  pasystray's hover text is great! :P
<Unit193> "pasystray" "audio-volume-high" :P
<ninetls> ok, I'll try to investigate it
<Unit193> Thanks again.  And, remmina 1.1.2
<ninetls> Unit193: yes, there is no standard for tooltips for appindicators
<ninetls> some of them give a valid data (like nm-applet)
<ninetls> some of them doesn't
<Unit193> Yeeeeep.  The telegram one is better now that I forced it out of the Ubuntu version.
<Unit193> Skype has decent enough one.
<ninetls> icomute_22_0
<Unit193> Yes, no more of that. :>
<ninetls> Unit193: does there is no icon?
<ninetls> or there is a small 1x1 icon?
<ninetls> a small pixel may be shown
<ninetls> Unit193: https://pastebin.com/MKdYAqS7 try this
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> libxfce4panel-2.0-dev : Depends: libxfce4panel-2.0-4 (= 4.12.1-1ubuntu1) but 4.12.1-1ubuntu2+git-18df4709 is to be installed
<bluesabre> this is probably something I did to myself :D
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-20
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<bluesabre> evening ochosi
<ochosi> a lot of stuff to try and test
<ochosi> new tumbler release
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> lots of fun new toys :D
<ochosi> clipman release is around the corner (i managed to fix two issues with the gtkapplication port, so now it fully works)
<ochosi> panel release is around the corner
<bluesabre> awesome
<ochosi> also fixed more stuff there today
<bluesabre> I was just about to start poking the pulseaudio plugin to see how much work it would take to add mpris support
<ochosi> oh right
<bluesabre> and basically clone indicator-sound
<ochosi> well there's already an mpris plugin that could be taken
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> my matias
<ochosi> by
<ochosi> probably more than just copy-paste
<ochosi> but still
<bluesabre> *everybody's matias :D
<ochosi> :D
<bluesabre> but yeah, was going to frankenstein them
<ochosi> hehe, lovely
<ochosi> i think the plugin still needs to use the icon size logic of the 4.13 panel
<ochosi> currently it calculates its own sizes, and it's not 100% the same as the rest
<ochosi> (i think)
<bluesabre> that's no fun
<ochosi> yeah, and the patch is really simple
<ochosi> i'll do the same for clipman
<ochosi> prolly without making it depend on the 4.13 panel
<ochosi> only optional
<ochosi> but to prepare for 4.14
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> things are looking pretty positive for 4.14 now
<bluesabre> seems like next year could be a realistic goal
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it doesn't look too bad
<ochosi> even progress on xfwm4
<Unit193> ninetls: 1x1, right.  Will try in a min.
<ochosi> sry, gotta get some sleep now
<bluesabre> nighty ochosi
<Unit193> The soundmenu plugin is more like XP's WMP panel applet, not like indicator-sound.
<bluesabre> yeah, it's not something I'd use
<bluesabre> but its got all the important signal bits in there
<Unit193> Righty.
<ninetls> Unit193: I'm going to sleep soon, so it may be better to put off it to tomorrow
<Unit193> OK.
<bluesabre> hm
<bluesabre> It will probably be a lot easier to start with the soundmenu plugin as the basis
<Unit193> :3
<Unit193> ninetls: Yep, worked.
<ninetls> Unit193: nice, pushed to master
<Unit193> ninetls: Great, thanks.  Anything else I can do?
<ninetls> Unit193: I think this patch fixes your problem
<ninetls> so everything is done
<ninetls> later I'll add a ctrl+right click feature
<Unit193> Welp, that's it.  Officially changing.
 * Unit193 proposes http://paste.openstack.org/show/wYQzi2VFVp5veLKPmPCH for x-d-s. :P
<Guest95952> hi, anyone have an idea when the next round of iso testing will start?
<flocculant> Guest95952: you can iso test daily if you want to - new iso's built every day
<flocculant> if you mean milestone testing we're not doing that till we get to Beta
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: re Bug 1705243 Parole, I can confirm that.. However as an extra point. The default install of Parole has the preference set for autoplay  when opened, hence why its probably not been picked up prior..
<ubottu> bug 1705243 in parole "Play button inactive" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1705243
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: thanks 
<flocculant> ochosi: I was under the impression the artful 16.12 thunar was what we sru'd to xenial and zesty and so the op's  1.6.11-0ubuntu0.16.04.2 should be the fixed version? xfce 13718
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 13718 in General "Thunar freezes when showing a directory where TeXStudio compiles a .tex-File" [Normal,Needinfo] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13718
<ochosi> flocculant: no, i think we only SRUd 1.6.11, but i may be mistaken
<ochosi> we should at least put 1.6.12 in a PPA
<Unit193> !info thunar xenial-proposed
<ubottu> Package thunar does not exist in xenial-proposed
<Unit193> !info thunar xenial
<ubottu> thunar (source: thunar): File Manager for Xfce. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.11-0ubuntu0.16.04.2 (xenial), package size 300 kB, installed size 1016 kB
<Unit193> ochosi: There's SRU #1 and #2, the latter contained the bulk of .12
<ochosi> but the version wasn't bumped?
<ochosi> to .12?
<Unit193> ...Why would it have been?  It was .11 with patches.
<ochosi> right, so that was done before my .12 release already?
<Unit193> Sure.
<Unit193> ochosi: Did you try statusnotifier?  It's decent enough at a first release, may as well get it in and go for it! :3
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> i tried when i compiled it sometime during its early development
<ochosi> haven't found the time since
<ochosi> the fact that you need to kill the indicator-application process (or whichever it was) to get it to work irritated me a little
<ochosi> but i wouldnt mind getting it in
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can you cherry pick whatever you want from https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin_0.1.0-0aegir1.dsc and upload to extras?  I don't want to steal your work.
<Unit193> (version only changed because using locally and needed something so I could debdiff without overwriting.)
<ochosi> do we have statusnotifier in a PPA for testing or something?
<ochosi> i presume we also need to change stuff in our session to get it working alongside the indicator plugin
<Unit193> ochosi: That's what I asked Sean, since he packaged it I didn't want to steal (just poke at.)  I jokingly proposed http://paste.openstack.org/show/wYQzi2VFVp5veLKPmPCH for x-d-s.
<ochosi> could do that
<ochosi> doesnt look too wrong to me
<Unit193> I proposed toggling that option on because: 1. Closer to how the last release was.  2. It's more consistent this way, IMO.
<Unit193> If we go that route, upgrades will get xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin installed, but not added to the panel.
<ochosi> won't that be a problem wrt the indicator-application process running or not running in the sessions?
<Unit193> On upgrades, both will be installed but, presuming people change even one thing in their panel, only indicator-application will be used as the config won't overwrite user config.
<ochosi> 9
<Unit193> A good number.
<ochosi> indeed! one of my favorite
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-21
<bluesabre> The hardest part might be done now https://github.com/bluesabre/xfce4-soundmenu-plugin/commit/51285017385e4d0f9d52fa5f8e96015ee62f3e2d >.<
<bluesabre> Unit193: will do
<Unit193> bluesabre: sidi doesn't like keybinder.
<bluesabre> Unit193: Pretty sure it's optional
<bluesabre> My goal is to get a base indicator-sound clone off the ground
<Unit193> Not propose a merge for pa?
<bluesabre> the mpris handling bits are larger than the pa-plugin itself
<Unit193> Hrm..
<Unit193> bluesabre: FYI, I've switched to sn-plug across everthing.
<bluesabre> Unit193: does it support indicator-sound? that seems to be the one indicator I'm missing
<Unit193> sn-plug is indicator-application.
<bluesabre> ahhh
<bluesabre> hm
<Unit193> I presume you don't care about -messages? :P
<bluesabre> I use it
<bluesabre> When I'm not running all web services
<Unit193> Doesn't pa-plug conflict a tad with xfce4-volumed?
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> and soundmenu seems pretty dang buggy
<bluesabre> all roads lead to pain :D
<bluesabre> time to start poking the pa plug instead
<Unit193> \o/
 * Unit193 likes rooting for pa-plug!
<ninetls> Unit193: https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin/commit/?id=20c3664e6a1838f76549b0577833f89e278b7bf2
<Unit193> Welp that's easy.  Thanks very much, ninetls!
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-clipman-plugin 1.4.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-clipman-plugin-1-4-2-released-tp49571.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<ochosi> \o/
<ochosi> bluesabre: looking forward to your new xfce4-indicator-sound ;)
<ninetls> ok, I figured out how to make sn-plugin work with foreign watcher services
<ninetls> the problem is that these services can be poorly designed
<ninetls> and the bigger problem that indicator-application-service exacly this service
<Unit193> Ahaha, niiice. :D
<ninetls> it doesn't notify me when new icons added -_-
<ninetls> the standard says: something notifies about new item -> notify all hosts that a new item was added
<Unit193> Maybe that'll be fixed in ayatana-application-indicator! :P
<ninetls> i-d-s doesn't do that
<ninetls> well, at least now it's possible to add multiple instances of sn-plugins!
<Unit193> To what end?
<ninetls> idkâ¦
<ninetls> well, I know how to solve the problem
<ninetls> I can check the list of items
<ninetls> compare with existing list of items
<ninetls> find differences
<ninetls> add/remove items according to these differences
<Unit193> I just no longer use indicator-application, fixes that issue. :>
<ninetls> sounds disgusting, isn't it?
<Unit193> Trying to compare everything?  Yes, sounds easier to only have one plugin running (more so since xfce4-panel supports enforcing this.)
<ninetls> also there is sntray plugin
<ninetls> I'm interested in how will it work with sn-plugin now
<ninetls> when there are multiple plugins added
<ninetls> one of them became a "master" plugin which runs a watcher service
<ninetls> and everyting everyting begin to work depending on how good this service designed
<ninetls> (2 everything and with the same typo, nice!)
<Unit193> ninetls: I presume you wouldn't be interested in helping bluesabre add mpris2 support to pa-plug or whatnot? :P
<ninetls> Unit193: I don't use this feature and never used it!
<Unit193> :D
<ninetls> nice!
<ninetls> i-a-s seems to doesn't notify about changed properties
<ninetls> so listening for properties is a bad idea as well!
<Unit193> Well it presumes it's the only one.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-22
<ax562>  anyone know if this will work if I'm building a xubuntu kernel ?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel
<ax562>  or will I have any issues? I'm on xubuntu 16.04 lts x64
#xubuntu-devel 2017-07-23
<ninetls> Unit193: may be you'll be interested, I've added a support for symbolic icons to sn-plugin
<ninetls> the problem is actually there are no themes which provide symbolic icons for appindicators
<ninetls> but user can make them himself
<ninetls> and they will work
<ninetls> I've already made symbolic icons for nm-applet, blueman and even telegram-desktop
<ochosi> ninetls: sounds interesting, could include those in the icon theme
<Unit193> ninetls: I did see actually, I try to keep up on interesting commits.  Is there a reason to create new icons for nm-a and telegram though? :P
<ninetls> Unit193: they are not symbolic!
<ninetls> symbolic icons look better on the panel
<ochosi> yeah, if you change the gtk theme and the panel has a different color, the symbolic ones adjust
<ochosi> otherwise you have to change icon themes (which is why there is elementary-xfce, elementary-xfce-dark and elementary-xfce-darker)
<Unit193> Shiny.
<Unit193> ninetls: Interesting, 'unset DESKTOP_SESSION' and the same for 'XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP' then start telegram when using indicator-application â Segfault.   Same with statusnotifier â All is normal.
<ninetls> Unit193: what app segfaults?
<Unit193> ninetls: Oh, telegram.
<ninetls> hmm
<ninetls> well, I don't know why does is happen
<Unit193> Nope, but it's amusing! :D
<ochosi> Unit193: is statusnotifier already in a PPA?
<ochosi> (sry if i have asked this before)
<Unit193> ochosi: You haven't, or if you have I don't remember it.  I did some tweaks of bluesabre's packaging and I'm letting him pick what he wants and upload.  I don't want to take his credit. :3
<ochosi> wow, there must be an incredible amount of credit waiting for bluesabre there ;)
<bluesabre> I'll try to get it uploaded tonight :D
<bluesabre> been busy, and heading into vacation week :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well, I mean I could just do it anyway, I'd still leave you in d/changelog. :3
<Unit193> But then you don't get to reject.
<bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to do the upload
<Unit193> Biggest problem is that ninetls keeps making commits that I want to cherry pick from git. :3
<bluesabre> it's really a simple package
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> It's a panel plugin, nothing weird about it, so yep!
<ochosi> maybe he can do another point release very soon
<ninetls> I think so
<ninetls> but I's like to wait until some translations apper in git
<ninetls> Skunnyk
<ninetls> oh
<ninetls> wrong chat
<ochosi> wow, you already have a lot of translations there
<ninetls> yes, I see
<ninetls> also I made a request today
<ninetls> to become translator -_-
<Unit193> But https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin/commit/?id=21760d00c8e255f4bf83ddce1f387b1c034599f4 is the only "important" one, I suppose. :3
<Unit193> configure.ac:86: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_DEFINE If this token and others are legitimate, please use m4_pattern_allow. See the Autoconf documentation.
<Unit193> :D
<ninetls> Unit193: I tried to compile it on ubuntu!
<ninetls> it worked!
<ninetls> tried again on ubuntu 16.04
<ninetls> no problems
<Unit193> ninetls: That's only if I autoreconf it.
<Unit193> ochosi: There.
<Unit193> ninetls: But seriously, thanks for making it and your work on the indicator plugin.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-07-16
<Unit193> bluesabre: You expanded my html page. :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: huh?
<Spass> Is the Catfish only official Xfce application that uses CSD?
<bluesabre> technically the decorations on the notes app are client-side
<bluesabre> They're also optional on catfish
<bluesabre> Need to document that somewhere
<Spass> So probably in the "vanilla" Xfce experience it will not use CSD, right?
<Spass> I'm asking because someone in the G+ comments asked "If it is an Xfce application why does it look like a Gnome app?"
<bluesabre> Got something like that in my blog comments as well
<bluesabre> The generic answer is that xfce doesn't really have a human interface guidelines, it's largely shared with gnome
<bluesabre> so any gtk application can be xfce/gnome/lxde/et
<bluesabre> c
<bluesabre> ~/.config/catfish/catfish.rc
<bluesabre> use-headerbar=false
<Spass> Probably the fact that it doesn't use Xfwm theme is an issue here.
<bluesabre> yeah, planning to switch that up for 1.4.7
<Spass> OK, the fact that's optional is a great argument I think. Personally I don't care too much, but I can kinda understand the confusion.
<bluesabre> yeah
<Spass> Anyway, thanks for clarifying that bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> np :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: I was mainly joking, but now it shows up on the xfce412.html page.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar-vcs-plugin 0.2.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-vcs-plugin-0-2-0-released-tp51399.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-07-17
<bluesabre> Unit193: how would one go about testing this? https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=902378 ... and how is that even possible when the python module is a package dep?
<ubottu> Debian bug 902378 in mugshot "mugshot: fails to start: ImportError: No module named 'gi'" [Serious,Open]
<bluesabre> !info xfce4-terminal cosmic
<ubottu> xfce4-terminal (source: xfce4-terminal): Xfce terminal emulator. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.7.3-0ubuntu1 (cosmic), package size 344 kB, installed size 2023 kB
<bluesabre> Unit193: want to bump that in cosmic to 0.8.7.4, then I can submit the SRU paperwork?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Get a minimal chroot or something set up, install the package, try to run?
<Unit193> bluesabre: And as I said in -dev, kiiiiind of been waiting for you to do that, but given the recent bug a lot of that has dropped.  I guess I can.
<bluesabre> ah, missed that you wanted me to upload it
<bluesabre> I can
<Unit193> It's fine, you're doing the other crap...
<bluesabre> It's hard to run mugshot in chroot
<bluesabre> getting a user spun up and all the required bits for accountsservice
<bluesabre> not seeing those issues though, it's getting further than that
<Unit193> Shouldn't it just be a dep on python3-gi?
<bluesabre> yeah, which it has and seems to work
<bluesabre> but I wonder if a "minimal" chroot means no recommends-chain
<Unit193> I do not see it with apt-cache depends mugshot...
<bluesabre> :O
<bluesabre> well, dang
<bluesabre> sure enough
<bluesabre> >.<
<Unit193> OK, I was a liiiiittle confused. :P
<bluesabre> seemingly less so than me
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mugshot/+bug/1443283/comments/5
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1443283 in mugshot (Ubuntu) "mugshot crashed with TypeError in _spawn(): The argument, args, must be a list." [Medium,Incomplete]
<bluesabre> neat
<bluesabre> Should probably fix that soon
<bluesabre> https://salsa.debian.org/python-team/applications/mugshot/commit/2b902e92aa709c63c3066930bcea511705e139df
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks
<Unit193> Welcome?
<bluesabre> time for bed
<bluesabre> nighty
<Unit193> G'night.
<pmjdebruijn> I just realised I was asking on the wrong channel
<pmjdebruijn> does anybody here have any insight into official ISO generation?
<pmjdebruijn> I'm fiddling with live-build, and I'm running into fairly severe (seemingly) bugs in live-build
<pmjdebruijn> which makes me question whether live-build is actually used at all
<Unit193> I didn't do a merge so the packaging is minimal for your SRU, bluesabre.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-07-18
<Unit193> Anything I can do to help test SRU's or whatnot?
<bluesabre> mapreri is in exam week, so if you become a dd you can get some of my stuff uploaded :D
<Unit193> Doubt it'll be so quick. :P
<Unit193> See the timeline on my last application?
<Unit193> Also unfortunately I'm not in the python modules or applications teams.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Urgh, missed https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2018-July/036105.html
<Unit193> xfce4-volumed-pulse, thunar-shares-plugin, we have no plans for these yeah?
<bluesabre> Unit193: we might do something with the former, it mattered for pre-bionic
<bluesabre> Unit193: sound good? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal/+bug/1782327
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1782327 in xfce4-terminal (Ubuntu) "[SRU] xfce4-terminal 0.8.7.4, New upstream microrelease" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Sub all the things, diff, then looks good!
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> Thanks
<bluesabre> Done
<bluesabre> Will do catfish tonight
#xubuntu-devel 2018-07-20
<Unit193> bluesabre: Amazing job with xfce4-settings!
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks! I think we might be to a point now where SRU uploads are a bit more trusted for each team, so it's easier to move microreleases along. This will change when somebody breaks something though, so enjoy the ability to give our users updates :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks for all the sru stuffs :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: sure thing
<bluesabre> working on the catfish sru now
<bluesabre> and then, sometime this weekend, planning to send a thunar update back to xenial
<flocculant> oh cool
<flocculant> I've seen e-mails during the week - but not done much more than fleetingly read them
<flocculant> I'll try and catch up today 
<bluesabre> I'm on vacation next week, so trying to knock some stuff out before Monday
<flocculant> and get some 18.04 testing sorted - point release next week
<bluesabre> Let me know if there's anything you find that I need to do
<flocculant> aah cool - good to know that
<flocculant> week following is the last 16.04 point release
<flocculant> so a bit for me to sort out soonish
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> biab - just got back after todays 4 hour ride - first port of call was here :)
<flocculant> kettle next :D
<Unit193>     - Dropped, Xfce release manager does not have key signing
<Unit193> :(
<bluesabre> once xfce moves to gandhi, I'm pretty sure gitea does support it
<bluesabre> so, hopefully temporary
<Unit193> If Xfce uses that for releases over moka, that is.  And if it does, we lose that nice little html page. :(
<bluesabre> no winning then :(
<bluesabre> there's the catfish sru, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1782735
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1782735 in catfish (Ubuntu) "[SRU] catfish 1.4.6, New upstream microrelease" [Undecided,In progress]
<bluesabre> xfce4-settings is in -updates
<bluesabre> exo should be there in a day or two
<bluesabre> xfce4-terminal should be there before 18.04.1
<bluesabre> catfish will be slightly after .1
<flocculant> bluesabre: has anyone killed 17.10 on our stuff yet?
<bluesabre> flocculant: good question
<Unit193> flocculant: I'm fairly homicidal, so chances are I might have.  Was I not supposed to?
<bluesabre> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1762595 is fixed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1762595 in gvfs (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Thunar incorrectly thinks USB storage device hasn't finished ejecting" [High,Fix released]
<flocculant> Unit193: lol
<flocculant> gone from docs - still on download page, I'll see if I can kill that later and mail lists
<bluesabre> flocculant: thx
<Unit193> PPAs, everything has been cleaned out except daily which I don't touch, and seemingly extras.
<flocculant> okey doke
<Unit193> I, uhh...Nearly went after Bionic in 'experimental'
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> Too bad we can't SRU ristretto.
<flocculant> everytime I see ristretto I read risotto
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - oh, now then
<flocculant> If we kill 17.10 - there are no regular releases - people can only get an LTS - so they'd not ever see a regular release unless they fiddle with update manager
<flocculant> best we can do I suppose is detail that in the eol notice - pointing to the docs
<flocculant> knome: looking at https://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/term.php?taxonomy=release&tag_ID=81&post_type=release_link&wp_http_referer=%2Fwp-admin%2Fedit-tags.php%3Ftaxonomy%3Drelease%26post_type%3Drelease_link
<knome> flocculant, yes?
<flocculant> which implies that torrent links hide after eol date
<knome> yes.
<flocculant> but it's visible
<knome> hmm.
<knome> okat
<flocculant> :)
<knome> okay too
<knome> for what release is this?
<knome> or for all?
<flocculant> 17.10
<flocculant> EOL yesterday
<knome> also :D
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/term.php?taxonomy=release&tag_ID=81&post_type=post&wp_http_referer=%2Fwp-admin%2Fedit-tags.php%3Ftaxonomy%3Drelease (and all similar pages)
<knome> read "release apes"
<knome> maybe that should be corrected to "release pages"
<knome> hmm...
<flocculant> are the dates in the wrong syntax there?
<knome> for now, the workaround is to uncheck the "is this release out?" box
<knome> nope
<knome> they are in the correct syntax -- but
<flocculant> then the wording is :D
<flocculant> Date in YYYY-MM-DD format.
<knome> your browser might show it differently
<knome> because that's the new HTML5 date input
<flocculant> date shows as 19/07/2018
<knome> yep.
<knome> that's the html5 thingy
<flocculant> anyway - ack to unchecking
<knome> to me it shows 07/19/2018
<knome> but if you don't mind -- file a bug against xubuntu-website in launchpad
<knome> this should be automatical for sure
<flocculant> oh good lord
<knome> but yes, the description is a bit off i guess..
<knome> the thing is
<knome> if your browser *doesn't* support the html5 date input
<knome> then the input is shown as plain text
<knome> ...and the you'd have no idea what to input
<flocculant> knome: so I unchecked it - and it still shows up
<knome> where?
<knome> not https://xubuntu.org/release/17-10/
<flocculant> https://xubuntu.org/download/
<knome> oh.
<flocculant> have to manually do that I guess
<knome> interesting
<knome> yes, you need to manually edit the downloads page
<knome> i guess
<knome> *sigh* :)
<knome> that's another thing i should automate.
<knome> but you know, life...
<flocculant> I'll do it all later today - not got time to do everything right now
<knome> i can remove it
<flocculant> yea for sure - I know I've been quiet since the start of the cycle
<knome> and done
<knome> maybe i'll have the motivation and time in late august+
<flocculant> knome: ok - I'll follow up later today with words everywhere it's needed
<knome> ta
<knome> i'll file the damn bug(s) myself now
<flocculant> funnily enough docs doesn't show 17.10 :D
<knome> yep
<knome> because that's automated
<flocculant> oh ok - scribbles that note out :D
<knome> hmm, there is this other thing
<knome> timezones
<flocculant> I did wonder 
<knome> is it still 19th in the server tz?
<knome> so maybe wait 24 hours
<knome> and recheck
<flocculant> yea
<knome> i checked the "out" box for 17.10
<knome> so they are now visible
<knome> should automatically disappear
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> cheers
<knome> but in any case -- we should make sure that is done automatically in UTC 
<knome> np
<Unit193> I got a ping.
<knome> ding dong
<knome> theoretically https://xubuntu.org/releases/ could offer the downloads as well.
<knome> but... meh :)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> now that Spass did the work of getting all the old wallpapers, we could list them for each release as well
<knome> (and we pretty much already support doing that, only the heading is a bit wrong as it says "Screenshots", could be "Media")
<flocculant> could be nice
<knome> pleia2, i (still) propose getting rid of the press archive (https://xubuntu.org/press/archive)
<flocculant> anyway - back later
<knome> the press stuff i laid out so much nicer in the release pages -- even if it's not listing everything on the same page...
<knome> flocculant, hf!
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/release/6-06/ for an example for the wallpaper stuff..
<knome> that way we are also essentially offering downloads for the official wallpapers "easily"
<knome> (which is a good thing)
<flocculant> yea - makes sense 
<flocculant> really going now :p
<knome> yes :P
<knome> oh hello rt.ubuntu.com
<knome> so every wallpaper except maverick uploaded - it exceeds the max upload size (rt #32539 requests to increase that) 
<Spass> knome, very nice little change, now that page looks more "alive" - https://xubuntu.org/release/16-04/
<knome> yes indeed
<knome> even more so with the EOL releases that have no other media
<Spass> ups, that last screenshot is from 13.04 - https://xubuntu.org/release/14-04/
<knome> clearl
<knome> y
<knome> :P
<knome> man, we need a filter-by-release feature:P
<knome> now the last screenshot is gone
<knome> fortunately this is easy as that..
<Spass> and thanks to that change I now know that I've missed 10.04 wallpaper on my website, I thought that release used a wall from the 9.10, so thanks :)
<knome> ;)
<knome> actually i'm not sure if that was the real case.
<knome> my memory with that is a bit hazy, but that's what i had on my filesystem
<knome> *shrug*
<knome> it might have been one of the rare cases when a new wallpaper wasn't uploaded for a release
<Spass> hmm, so I should investigate that
<Spass> let my download that ISO and check :P
<knome> ta
<knome> you should start get involved a bit more even, we could then add you to the website team (and xubuntu team) so you could do things on yer own
<knome> and/or if you are active on social media, i'm sure pleia2 would love some help maintaining stuff
<knome> now off for something completely different
<knome> o/
<Spass> thanks knome, I'm trying to be a "sometimes helpful" outsider ;) and yes, I probably should get involved in the project more, I hope I'll find some ways to do that in the future, problem is I'm not skilled or knowledgeable enough, I think, but I'll try to help with some ISO testing in the future also
<Spass> seems like 10.04 used a wall from 9.10 by default, but still, I like that from the release page more :)
<knome> Spass, we do need different skills - everybody doesn't need to be a developer :)
<Spass> I know, but a person should have some "different skills" first :D
<Spass> anyway, that all talk about old Xubuntu versions made me nostalgic and I'm making simple grey Plymouth theme
<Spass> https://i.imgur.com/utakTGJ.png
<Spass> #333333 background of course ;) to keep it official
<Spass> and since I don't have SSD on my laptop I will be able to actually see that screen
<pleia2> knome: you had proposed it before? :) I suppose as long as we have the articles linked somewhere, it's ok, since I do like being able to walk through history and see what articles popped up about releases from 7 years ago :)
<knome> pleia2, yeah, when we moved to the new (current) press link collection thingy  :)
<pleia2> ah
<Unit193> https://tracker.debian.org/news/974393/accepted-elementary-xfce-012-1-source-all-into-unstable-unstable/ there appears to be a new package in Debian, I have no clue where it came from.
#xubuntu-devel 2018-07-21
<flocculant> knome: assuming you did nothing then automatically 17.10 is gone 
<flocculant> bluesabre: so re us only having LTS available now - what's your best choice for  reminding people how to go for regular releases?
<flocculant> we do at least document it on the official docs - so we could do some simple blog/mail posts pointing there
<flocculant> alternatively we can have a really really quiet 2 years :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: Bionic is both the LTS and the regular release atm :)
<Unit193> That's the only reason I'm using it.
<bluesabre> knome: can we update the download page to say "supported until {month}, {year}" instead of "support for 3 years"
<Unit193> ...Except for the server.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Means more updating.  Also you see elementary-xfce got in? :D  That means the copyright changes were good. ;D
<bluesabre> Unit193: that's awesome, is it part of a team or a few direct uploaders?
<knome> sure, it's plain text (atm at least)
<knome> theoretically we might want to automate that part too though
<Unit193> bluesabre: Just the three of us, no team.
<bluesabre> Unit193: cool
<knome> just filed bug 1782875
<ubottu> bug 1782875 in Xubuntu Website "Torrent downloads and documentation is visible for EOL releases" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1782875
<knome> don't have time to update the things now, but if you want, you are free to go edit the pages
<knome> well, page
<bluesabre> knome: alrighty, cool
<knome> it's already listed with the EOL date here: https://xubuntu.org/release/18-04/
<Unit193> bluesabre: ...Was team preferred? :3
<knome> so yes, no reason why we couldn't do that elsewhere
<Unit193> Still pending sn-plugin, and I'm not pushing xfdashy at alll.
<bluesabre> Unit193: nah, I just wanted to know who we had to poke anytime an icon changes
<knome> hmm, so the only questio with moving to a automated dl page is this:
<knome> +n
<knome> do we want to show all non-EOL LTS releases or just the last one
<knome> we also need to figure out how we do not lock in the wording too badly, meaning we will likely need a few textarea inputs..
<knome> or one, for the dl template
<knome> oh, and we will need an LTS switch for the release taxonomy
<knome> sigh, sounds like i should write a bug ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> knome: probably all non-EOL, otherwise no point in us supporting the 3rd year (no download links for it)
<knome> yep
<knome> well, the dl links would be available in the release page..
<knome> bug 1782876
<ubottu> bug 1782876 in Xubuntu Website "Automate the Xubuntu download page" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1782876
<knome> wow, two consecutive bug numbers
<knome> has the LP team got the spam stuff in order?
<Unit193> Nobody cares to file bugs anymore.
<knome> even the spammers :P
<bluesabre> every other bug is package failed to install/upgrade
<knome> heh.
<knome> anyway, got to go
<knome> bbl
<bluesabre> seeya knome
<Unit193> Truth.
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea I know that - and update mangler is set to check for LTS only - so even when 18.10 is released no-one will be prompted
#xubuntu-devel 2019-07-15
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
#xubuntu-devel 2019-07-16
<jphilipz> can anyone suggest how to fix this, as i couldnt with my knowledge of glade - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15656
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15656 in Panel "Number of rows slider not the same width as other sliders" [Normal,New]
#xubuntu-devel 2019-07-17
<jphilipz> all are welcome to give their input on what they prefer as the clock label in the panel - https://twitter.com/jphilipz/status/1151273823297253376
<jphilipz> if you dont have a twitter account, you can always leave your vote here on irc :D
<Spass[m]> geez, same message on four channels, I guess your poll is really important
<jphilipz> just making sure everyone gets to see it as not everyone is in all 4 of the channels
<pleia2> knome: https://twitter.com/MikeR256/status/1150948467449057281 jphilips had a smart reply (it's more symbols than screens) but I figured I should let you know about this feedback
<knome> pleia2, mhm, i might do something about that later... or not
<knome> :D
<knome> btw, i stumbled upon your "to read" list and inspired by that, loaned "coders" by clive thompson, and so far it's been a great read :)
<knome> hooks you nicely and flows well but also has interesting stuff in it
<knome> pleia2, now that i've given the tweet 10 seconds thought, please make them file a bug @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<knome> with my limited time, that's one of the places when i look for something to do
<pleia2> <3 clive
<knome> pleia2, hehe :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: ristretto 0.8.5 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-ristretto-0-8-5-released-tp54801.html (by Igor Zakharov)
<pleia2> and he uses ubuntu (when not his mac)
<knome> ahha :)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-07-18
<Unit193> jphilipz: I think you're comparing Xubuntu to the wrong OSes.  As an Xfce user, I'd have no interest in using GNOME and some might point out that Win 7 is going EOL in Jan, perhaps Manjaro Xfce or Fedora Xfce could be of more interest? :>
<Unit193> But perhaps others disagree with me, so there's that.
<jphilipz> Unit193: i've listed possibly 7 other xfce distros other than xubuntu in my initial email
<jphilipz> manjaro, linux mint xfce, linux lite, MX, Enso, GalliumOS, Galore, Swag Arch
<Unit193> Ah right, so you did.  27px, that's an interesting choice...
<jphilipz> yep i found 27px that to be quite strange
<Unit193> And might be better off ignoring Fedora Xfce, I think they might be pretty clsoe to defaults (looking at screenshots)
<jphilipz> never heard people recommending fedora as a good xfce implementation to check out else i could have tested it as well
<Unit193> https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/ no, it looks pretty close to Xfce defaults to me.
<jphilipz> is the xfce default 24?
<jphilipz> i am aware that fedora had an xfce spin, just saying that i never heard people recommend their xfce implementation
<Unit193> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/migrate/default.xml.in#n13 ...Well that's, huh.
<Unit193> jphilipz: I may only know it exists because former Xubuntu contributors moved on to there, or at least one did.
<jphilipz> Unit193: so xubuntu is lower than xfce default. lol.
<jphilipz> tested galore and gallium as i recently heard that they were based on xubuntu
<jphilipz> but hadnt heard about them before that
<Unit193> Manjaro is the other one that's entirely unrelated to Xubuntu and has a good setup.
<jphilipz> yep i was hearing about manjaro's setup on podcasts and youtube videos
<jphilipz> heard lots of hype behind MX and wanted to try it out
<brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/migrate/default.xml.in?h=xfce-4.12#n12
<brainwash> used to be 30
<jphilipz> well linux lite is using 4.12, so maybe thats why its on 30px
<Unit193> (I personally like a small panel)
<jphilipz> so the current default?
<jphilipz> 28px is still small
<jphilipz> what screen rez are you on?
<brainwash> 32 is the minimum I'd say
<brainwash> if one still has a small screen or just wants a slim panel, simply lower it
<brainwash> from my experience the average user wants slightly bigger panels, fonts, icons, etc.
<brainwash> comparable to how websites work
<ondondil> I always increase the panel size to 30 px. Even tabs in Firefox have 28px in compact mode.
<Spass[m]> yeah, I typically have my panel set to 28-30px (but I also have it on the bottom, not top, if that's relevant)
<Spass[m]> I guess Ubuntu Budgie screenshots could be a reference on how the bigger top panel looks - https://ubuntubudgie.org/portfolio/screenshots
<Spass[m]> from what I can see it's 34px, so little too much imho
<jphilipz> Spass[m]: mine also on the bottom :D
<jphilipz> Windows refugee
<Spass[m]> but keeping that comparison with ubuntu budgie, their panel isn't even used for window buttons / taskbar, Xubuntu panel is, so probably we have a bigger reason to make it slightly bigger than 24px to make the system more "usable"
<Spass[m]> I know that many will disagree with that statement
<jphilipz> ubuntu mate uses 28px for top and bottom - https://ubuntu-mate.org/gallery/Screenshots/01_familiar.png
<Spass[m]> I would be happy even with 26px in Xubuntu 19.10 tbh :) I'd call it a step in the right direction
<jphilipz> unfortunately with the new panel algo, 26px has 16x16 icons
<jphilipz> with the old algo in 18.04, 26px would have 22x22 icons
<Spass[m]> hmm, you can set the icon size, within the plugins' settings
<Spass[m]> I think it's 22 by default, no matter what panel size you set
<Spass[m]> am I missing something?
<jphilipz> yep thats true, but then people adjusting the panel height would never see the icons increase
<Spass[m]> well, I think that tray icons shouldn't be bigger than 22px
<Spass[m]> even on 32px panel
<Spass[m]> big tray / status icons look baaad
<ondondil> at 40px panel small icons look bad
<ondondil> it's all opinions
<Spass[m]> true
<Spass[m]> I mean, I would still prefer 22px tray even at 40px panel ;) but like you said, just an opinion
<jphilipz> here are mine with a 32px panel - http://i.imgur.com/5AXqzgt.png
<jphilipz> 22px look fine in my opinion. i think windows with its 40px panel also has small tray icons
<Spass[m]> yeah
<ondondil> i'm fine with either as long as there is an option to change it
<Spass[m]> I'm just the type of guy who has an OCD about the tray icons, they all have to me 22px max and monochrome :) https://i.imgur.com/kWt2Y8T.png
<Spass[m]> otherwise it looks ugly and "unprofessional", for me
<Unit193> So, no eyes in your panel.
<Spass[m]> heh, nope
<jphilipz> monochorome looks quite nice
<jphilipz> is there a way to force that?
<Spass[m]> I had them for a while on Debian Lenny tho.... good times
<Spass[m]> it's the icon theme job, and unfortunately there are many applications that have hard-coded panel icons :/
<Spass[m]> so yeah, fight with the windmills
<Spass[m]> but so far elementary-xfce icon set is making pretty good job with "monochromifying" the tray
<Spass[m]> so that's great
<ondondil> unless you set statusnotifier icon size > 24px
<jphilipz> windows 7 notification icons are 16x16
<Spass[m]> well, I think nobody here wants to make them smaller than 22px on Xubuntu
<Spass[m]> no reason to do so imho, 22px is a good value
<jphilipz> 22px definitely is good
<jphilipz> though the battery and notification icons seem quite big compared to the rest - https://i.imgur.com/FabVpJ1.png
<jphilipz> Unit193: what size do you have yours at?
<Unit193> 22
<jphilipz> interesting. what resolution are you on?
<Unit193> Depends, unfortunately the netbook for example is at 1366x768.
<jphilipz> Unit193: do you use 22 also on high resolutions like 1440x900 or 1080p?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-07-19
<knome> pleia2, do you remember talking about a "pings archive"? my wordpress plugin repository has a plugin that does this with a shortcode, and i can't imagine i would have created this for anything else than xubuntu, but i can't figure out if it was ever in use; the code isn't in launchpad and it isn't installed in staging or production either
<knome> pleia2, or in other words, do we feel like we need a page that lists all of our pings?
<knome> oh, peculiar
<knome> one plugin doesn't seem to be installed however its functionality is tehre
<knome> maybe it was builtin the theme?
<knome> hmm.
<knome> actually i don't think so, so the plugin just doesn't exist
<knome> however, it has injected the thing we want in the database
<knome> and it's not getting removed by anything, so...
<knome> "heh" and well done, canonical IS :P
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.8 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-8-released-tp54836.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
<Unit193> - Do not register "send to" as last used app (Xfce Bug #14118)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14118 in General ""sendto" file from registering itself in the "open with" list" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14118
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-13
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-14
<DarkTrick> bug: If I switch off my wireless mouse during "go into hibernation", the computer will end up in a state between "on" and hibernation-like. To fix the situation a hardware-forced shutdown is necessary.
<DarkTrick> On which level is this bug to report? Xubuntu? Ubuntu? Kernel?
<TJ-> DarkTrick: sounds like a kernel, or more likely, a system firmware problem (BIOS/EFI - ACPI)
<DarkTrick> TJ-, so probably not reproducable on other systemn, right?
<TJ-> DarkTrick: likely not; sounds like a race condition. You may be able to work around it with an acpi_osi kernel parameter. See https://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html
<DarkTrick> TJ-, Thank you! I will take a look at that
<jphilips> Unit193: is this something you can fix in the packaging file - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elementary-xfce/+bug/1872313
<ubot93> Launchpad bug 1872313 in elementary-xfce (Ubuntu) "elementary xfce darkest icon theme missing cache file" [Low, Confirmed]
<Unit193> jphilips: Other icon themes do not, this is handled by triggers or other such means.
<jphilips> bluesabre: checking the 'xubuntu-desktop' package, 'xserver-xorg-input-synaptics' is a Recommended package dependency, so presume synaptic is still being installed
<jphilips> Unit193: was looking at xubuntu-core and saw gnome software was under Recommends
<Unit193> Well that's more than annoying, wonder how that's getting dragged in.. :/
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-15
<jphilips> for those that didn't see the ML email, here are my recommendations of apps that can go into 20.10 - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/145vm29WnxgYm4Y_8guaGDAblZT5sRjZ3jhKRktgX1No/edit#gid=0
<jphilips> here is the github issue where its being tracked - https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/issues/5
<ubot93> Issue 5 in Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings "New seed software" [Open]
<bluesabre> jphilips: indeed, seems like it was just missing from the daily iso when I checked the other day. It's back in http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/groovy-desktop-amd64.manifest
<jphilips> Unit193: what does the caret do at the end of 'sudo apt-get install xubuntu-core^'
<Unit193> Installs the task rather than the meta.
<jphilips> thanks. maybe it would be good to add that to the website text
<jphilips> '(donât forget the caret!)' to '(donât forget the caret at the end so it installs the task rather than the meta package!)'
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-16
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfconf 4.15.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfconf-4-15-0-released-tp59298.html (by Ali Abdallah-6)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4util 4.15.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4util-4-15-2-released-tp59300.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-17
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed python3-octavia-dashboard @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=15a6867028bd701a5a28caa3244ae27852c04b2a (by Corey Bryant)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-07-18
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/staging that...that description isn't right.
<jphilips> bluesabre: the link in this tweet doesn't work - https://twitter.com/PlanetBluesabre/status/1284291806075772928
<jphilips> Unit193: the whole thing or just 'This PPA currently provides Bionic packages for Artful.'
<Unit193> Yes, that part. :P
<jphilips> bluesabre: it tweeted two of the same tweet
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> jphilips: yeah, that blog post was published accidentally, but my planet scraped it while it was still up.
<jphilips> anyone else getting a segmentation fault when clicking the 'add' button in shares-admin?
<jphilips> happens on 19.10 and 20.04 for me
<jphilips> filed it https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/1888093
<ubot93> Launchpad bug 1888093 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "shared folders segfaults" [Undecided, New]
<brainwash> jphilips: gnome-system-tools is old software though and not maintained by anyone
<brainwash> bug 1791786
<ubot93> Bug 1791786 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "shares-admin crashes when trying to add a folder" [Undecided, Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1791786
<jphilips> we do use the other 2 apps that come in the bundle, so was curious why we don't use this third one, as i was hoping to put it in settings manager
<jphilips> i think i remember using it in 18.04
<jphilips> brainwash: any thoughts how to find out what is causing the segfault so it could possibly be fixed?
<brainwash> gdb
<jphilips> brainwash: how do i capture the debug output. its been forever since i last used gdb :D
<jphilips> closed my duplicate and copied and pasted the gdb output into the bug.
