#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-24
<micahg> xubuntu-docs in lucid-proposed ready for testing :)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<ochosi> hi charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Still got the themes issue in Natty. It will not stay in the selected theme.
<mr_pouit> if it shows the ugly dark grey thingy with rectangles everywhere, it's not a theme, it's gtk's default uglyness
<ochosi> :)
<mr_pouit> (meaning, xfsettingsd might have crashed, or you're missing a gtk theme engine)
<charlie-tca> Even the live cd?
<charlie-tca> this is the light grey theme, both gtk and xfwm 
<charlie-tca> It also affects the mouse cursor
<mr_pouit> could you make a screenshot?
<charlie-tca> it is xfsettingsd
<mr_pouit> if nothing is themed, xfsettingsd has probably crashed yeah
<charlie-tca> I just ran it in terminal, and the greybird theme came up. Mouse cursor changed, too
<charlie-tca> that means it is crashing as soon as the desktop starts
<charlie-tca> on installs and the live desktop
<micahg> charlie-tca: xubuntu-docs in lucid-proposed ready for testing :)
<charlie-tca> will get that today, micahg 
<charlie-tca> thanks
<mr_pouit> I tried the daily live in vbox, and the theme is there
<mr_pouit> no crash
<charlie-tca> hm, I will try today's image then. Yesterday it failed
<charlie-tca> It's been failing for several days, screenshot from a few days ago
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit : screenshot at http://imagebin.org/133250
<mr_pouit> :q
<charlie-tca> I will run the images later today. I have to try the lucid docs, too
<charlie-tca> ochosi: I think we have to keep thunderbird for email. Claws-mail just is not as easy to use 
<charlie-tca> and for those who really need to save that little bit of memory, send them to Lubuntu
<ochosi> charlie-tca: you're referring to the latest comment on the ml?
<charlie-tca> yes. I think we are going to stay with thunderbird
<ochosi> right, i don't mind so much
<charlie-tca> gmusic?? and browser is up in the air. I don't really care either way
<ochosi> mmh
<charlie-tca> But I am pretty determined on thunderbird. Claws-mail just is not as easy for users 
<ochosi> well, the main advantage of gmusicbrowser is the responsive/friendly upstream and that i'm working on it i guess
<charlie-tca> Is it in the repositories already?
<ochosi> browser, well, i would trust others with the choice, integration is definitely not a problem
<ochosi> charlie-tca: check out the shimmer ppa for the latest version
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> it's natty-ready ;)
<charlie-tca> browser we are letting the discussion run until we see which way it leans
<ochosi> ppa:shimmerproject/ppa
<charlie-tca> I just didn't want you to get too much hope up for claws-mail
 * charlie-tca uses claws-mail, too
<ochosi> i don't mind so much, i personally use/love it, but i can see why people wouldn't
<charlie-tca> I don't really like thunderbird enough to use it
<ochosi> :)
<charlie-tca> but in configuring it, it wins
<ochosi> probably, i've never tried version3
<charlie-tca> heh, I wish I could say that
<ochosi> btw, one more thing i like about gmusicbrowser: it can use gstreamer as backend, meaning it'll share the same backend with parole meaning less extra dependencies
<charlie-tca> setting it up with 10 email addresses and a ton of mailing lists took a couple of days
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> okeydokey, gotta run now
<ochosi> looking forward to some gmusicbrowser feedback
<ochosi> c u
<charlie-tca> thanks
<charlie-tca> micahg: found an issue when verifying bug 650806
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 650806 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu Maverick) "Incorrect file stated to disable IPv6" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/650806
<charlie-tca> all references to www.xubuntu.org fail on the page
<micahg> charlie-tca: why did you mark verification-done then?
<charlie-tca> they are entered as "file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/www.xubuntu.org" which will not work. It needs to be "http:www.xubuntu.org"
<charlie-tca> cause the original bug is fixed
<charlie-tca> Do I add that to the bug or open a new one?
<micahg> charlie-tca: oh, this is a new bug?, please file a new bug, tag regression -proposed and have bookemdano get me a fixed branch as soon as possible
<micahg> oops, no space in the tag
<charlie-tca> Okay, I can do that
<micahg> charlie-tca: is this a regression, or a new bug introduced?
<charlie-tca> AFAIK, new bug introduced
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, let me ask pitti then
<charlie-tca> but I can not say for sure
<micahg> hmm...
 * charlie-tca doesn't read the docs each release, and doesn't really know if it was there before or not
<micahg> charlie-tca: you could downgrade to the release version and see if it's there :)
<charlie-tca> Let me go look
<charlie-tca> I have 4 bugs I am verifying, will look in another install
<charlie-tca> micahg: new bug. The section has been almost completely re-written
<micahg> ok, I think that's a pretty big bug though, right?
<charlie-tca> well, Since that is what is being used to test a network connection that failed, ...
<charlie-tca> wait a minut
<charlie-tca> minor issue. It is a misprint to have it as a link
<charlie-tca> It is simply supposed to be a reference to use for ping tests. as in "www.xubuntu.org" instead of a link
<micahg> ah, ok
<charlie-tca> used as "to ping www.xubuntu.org" 
<charlie-tca> doesn't really count for anything
<micahg> charlie-tca: so we shouldn't fix?
<charlie-tca> well, if we have time, sure, let's fix it. But it is really an annoyance
<charlie-tca> I don't want to not get these docs in for that, though. They are really nice
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, file the bug and I"ll get pitti to look at it
<charlie-tca> Okay.
<micahg> charlie-tca: thanks
<charlie-tca> thank you 
<charlie-tca> It helps to have someone working with us
<micahg> charlie-tca: glad to help :)
<charlie-tca> docs verified for lucid
<micahg> cool
<charlie-tca> micahg: I guess I should let you know, we are keeping Thunderbird.
<charlie-tca> micahg: I gave up answering all those who insist we have to get rid of xulrunner
<micahg> charlie-tca: thanks, I thought I was clear on the xulrunner issue :)
<cody-somerville> hey folks
<charlie-tca> you were, I think. 
<cody-somerville> how are things?
<charlie-tca> Hello, cody-somerville 
<micahg> hi cody-somerville
<charlie-tca> been keeping busy
<charlie-tca> We are going to have updated 10.04 docs in .2
<cody-somerville> its been a crazy month so far for me. I see a lot of stuff go through my mailbox but haven't had a chance to read yet.
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, sweet :)
<charlie-tca> Oh, I don't know if they will be translated, though
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: seems like you are still spread a bit thin... You could really use a double
<cody-somerville> charlie-tca, lol. so I'm told.
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville: we announced the greybird theme for Natty this week
<cody-somerville> is that an entirely new theme or just a big improvement on top of the new one introduced last release?
<charlie-tca> grey instead of black/blue of the last release
<charlie-tca> same icon set
<charlie-tca> and panel arrangement changed
<charlie-tca> xfce 4.8 gives us more ability to play with panels
<charlie-tca> The theme itself is a change in the bluebird of 10.10
<cody-somerville> Cool, ok.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-25
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: are we throwing greybird in as the default theme in alpha2?
<mr_pouit> yes, as soon as i've uploaded it
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<mr_pouit> so probably in a few hours
<charlie-tca> wOw
 * charlie-tca didn't mean to say hurry up
<holstein> hello folks
<holstein> i have a slightly OT question
<charlie-tca> Hello, holstein 
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: it's waiting since last friday, so I should hurry up or ochosi will kill me :p
<charlie-tca> Oh! Then maybe I did mean hurry
<holstein> i wanted to know about the process of adapting xubuntu from ubuntu
<charlie-tca> :-)
<holstein> i want ubuntustudio to go to a live-CD 
<holstein> right now its the alternate
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit or cody-somerville ^ ^
<holstein> and i was wondering if there were particulars that you guys could share that would help me get the ball rolling
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hehe, maybe not kill you, but release another, newer version of greybird more likely ;)
<cody-somerville> holstein, Just ask cjwatson to set it up for you.
<holstein> cody-somerville: cool
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: and for your theme issue, try to uninstall gnome-settings-daemon
<charlie-tca> ah-ha
<mr_pouit> you will lose your gdm theming, but your xfce theme will be back ;p
<charlie-tca> I knew that didn't belong
<ochosi> btw, how do we theme gdm now?
<ochosi> i wasn't really involved with that in maverick
<mr_pouit> with a gconf file dropped in gdm's home dir to override the default ubuntu one
<ochosi> brrr
<ochosi> who did the gconf file last time?
<mr_pouit> \o
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> would be nice if gdm's panel would match the greybird xfce-panel colorwise
<ochosi> if you need help on that let me know
<mr_pouit> good luck for that
<ochosi> rly? is it that bad/hard?
<mr_pouit> be prepared to dive in gdm's source code
<mr_pouit> I remember the issues we had with albatross
<ochosi>  /o\
<ochosi> but back then it was a substantially different gdm, no?
<ochosi> i think it was still an older version
<mr_pouit> nope, the same
<ochosi> rly?
<mr_pouit> yeah
<ochosi> i thought we had something like gdm-legacy
<mr_pouit> probably the first release including it
<mr_pouit> there was a legacy gdm uploaded, but it was never used by anyone
<ochosi> right
<charlie-tca> ochosi: that's why I pushed for lightdm
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, i'm all for it, but mr_pouit said it's not stable enough yet
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: is someone working on its integration in xubuntu currently?
<charlie-tca> Not to my knowledge
<charlie-tca> It is in the repositories, though
<mr_pouit> ochosi: not me (I think it was the reasons not to include it by default in ubuntu)
<charlie-tca> I don't know enough to get it done
<charlie-tca> ochosi, mr_pouit : I would go with mr_pouit 's word. He knows more than me
<ochosi> but if it wasn't mr_pouit's own words i'd say we should test it
<ochosi> (it could be a can of worms though :) )
<charlie-tca> agreed
<charlie-tca> I got it to work in VirtualBox, on a fresh install. I could not get it to work on my installation of Natty, though
<ochosi> charlie-tca: you could ask whether anyone in the community has tested it in the next meeting
<ochosi> ah right
<mr_pouit> or on the ml first maybe
<charlie-tca> thought we did, but I forget...
<charlie-tca> or maybe, I just really want it
<ochosi> i second the idea of putting it on the ml first
<charlie-tca> see above ;-)
<charlie-tca> okay, okay. Maybe I screwed it up. I will send it to the ML, then
 * charlie-tca thinks ochosi gets better responses on the ML than him
<ochosi> charlie-tca: does that mean you want me to write/send it?
<charlie-tca> I don't care. I will send it. You are busy enough, aren't you?
<ochosi> hm, kinda, i at least wouldn't be able to send it today
<ochosi> tomorrow wuold be possible/okay
<charlie-tca> I will take care of it. Got to send the meeting reminder out too.
<ochosi> okeydokey
<charlie-tca__> then who am I?
<charlie-tca__> oh, ghosted
<mr_pouit> incoming upload of xubuntu-default-settings ;>
<charlie-tca> great! 
<charlie-tca> I might have to reinstall yet, though. Now I have to start both xfsettingsd and xfwm when I login
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-26
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> micahg: firefox 4.0b10 hates me. It won't let me report a bug using the "Help -> report a bug"
<micahg> charlie-tca: hmm, what happens?
<charlie-tca> nothing
<charlie-tca> no error, no new tab, no nothing
<micahg> does ubuntu-bug firefox still work?  Firefox is blacklisted from apport crashes, but you should still be able to report a bug
<charlie-tca> I didn't try it. I was trying to report something broke in firefox itself. Now I can't even remember what it was
<charlie-tca> QA Meeting in 2 minutes on #ubuntu-quality !
<ochosi> charlie-tca: does that concern artwork as well?
<charlie-tca> no
<charlie-tca> just bugs and testing, usually
<ochosi> mkay
<Ryoichi> hello
<Ryoichi> is there anyway to get the Xubuntu or Ubuntu source codes for learning how to build a operating system?
<TheSheep> Ryoichi: all the sources are on launchpad, adaik
<TheSheep> afaik
<TheSheep> Ryoichi: but I doubt they will be very useful for you, considering the amount
<Ryoichi> ok thanks
<TheSheep> Ryoichi: the kernel alone is overl 13 million lines
<TheSheep> whole ubuntu is probably something about 400 million lines of code
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-27
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu Meeting today at 19:00 UTC
<ochosi> charlie-tca: sry, won't be able to make it...
<ochosi> charlie-tca: please let me know if anything artwork related pops up
<charlie-tca> Okay. We have greybird in natty now, too.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 17 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend.
<charlie-tca> cody-somerville, mr_pouit: meeting
<mr_pouit> (micahg: probably March 24th rather (ui freeze), as we will probably use an already existing app, so no need for the release team to look)
<charlie-tca> push anyway?
<mr_pouit> yeah, the earlier the better
<micahg> mr_pouit: well, default app isn't a feature?
<mr_pouit> I'd say no, but =]
<micahg> mr_pouit: you're probably right, I seem to think everything is a feature :-/
<pleia2> sorry, no website update (and busy day at work, keep getting dragged off)
<charlie-tca> no problem. Thanks for helping. 
<charlie-tca> I know I put you on the spot there.
<pleia2> whoever sends out the leadership announcement, can you Cc: community-council@lists.ubuntu.com ?
<charlie-tca> sure
<pleia2> thanks :)
<charlie-tca> I am guessing that will be me, too?
<pleia2> probably
<pleia2> but it doesn't matter really
<charlie-tca> Do want a copy of the email from steve and myself, or does it matter?
<charlie-tca> I will do a news story for UNW on it
<pleia2> maybe just note that it exists, if anyone questions the vote you can produce it
<charlie-tca> Can do
<charlie-tca> I didn't cc the mailing list because he stated it was supposed to private to me
<pleia2> hmm
<charlie-tca> well, I messed that up. I quoted the message itself, which works, I think
<pleia2> posted it to fridge, snipped the details though and replaced it with a link: http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/01/27/xubuntu-project-lead-approved/
<charlie-tca> works. thank you
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-28
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> alpha2 testing next week, right?
<ochosi> hey charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> Hello, ochosi 
<ochosi> i wanted to ask you for help on finding a specific bug in our default apps
<ochosi> it's the widespread plague called "resize-grip in every window"
<ochosi> see the xfce4-settings dialog for reference
<ochosi> the resize-grip in the right lower corner covers the close-button partly
<ochosi> i've already reported two of those (one for xfce4-settings, on for xfdesktop) but this bug can be practically everywhere
<charlie-tca> I have seen it, like a triangle or square?
<ochosi> yep
<charlie-tca> It is not just xubuntu, gnome panel had it on yesterday's daily live cd
<ochosi> it's *everywhere*
<ochosi> but we need to report bugs about it...
<charlie-tca> it's gotta be gtk, isn't it?
<ochosi> yes, it's a backport from gtk3
<ochosi> a new function for the resize handle that almost no apps support right now
<charlie-tca> Oh, you want bugs! I guess I can do that. What do you report them against?
<ochosi> assign the bugs you report to this guy: https://launchpad.net/~bratsche
<charlie-tca> Okay, I can do that. Just report it as "resize-grip" visible?
<ochosi> yeah, you can use the same text i used here, since it's always the same bug
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/709282
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 709282 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "resize handle in xfce4-settings" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> on second thought, maybe don't assign the bugs all to ~bratsche already, mr_pouit already asked for directions in the first bug i reported
<ochosi> s/already/yet
<charlie-tca> yup, I see that. there are 6 other bugs in launchpad for "resize-grip" already
<ochosi> there will be plenty more i'm afraid
<ochosi> i really don't get why they did this
<charlie-tca> I don't know. bug 704414 is even a papercut
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 704414 in synaptic (Ubuntu) "In status bar, Resize grip overlaps synaptic's progress bar" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/704414
<ochosi> yeah
<charlie-tca> we need to keep the term "resize grip", though, so all the bugs will show up in one search
<charlie-tca> What makes it show up? I don't see it in settings
<charlie-tca> nm
<charlie-tca> depends somewhat on the theme as to the visibility of it for me
<charlie-tca> ochosi: the grip is well defined in industrial theme, even on the apps I haven't seen it in
<ochosi> charlie-tca: yes, i know, i tried to use a different engine or pixmap for the grip to make it more visible, but since it's gtk3 i really don't know how... :(
<ochosi> i made the change in maverick, but in natty the gtk2 approach doesn't work
<charlie-tca> I see. I have it in firefox, gedit, orage global time, probably everything that is not maximized. It shows with industrial theme
<charlie-tca> so, I will start filing reports 
<ochosi> great!
<charlie-tca> ochosi: so what has made the buttons disappear on windows?
<charlie-tca> using industrial or crux, I have no buttons at all
<charlie-tca> We need a better plan. Every application except calculator appears affected
<ochosi> charlie-tca: window-buttons-> i already debugged it and jeromeg has fixed it in git, mr_pouit has promised to upload the xfwm4-patch to natty asap
<charlie-tca> okay
<ochosi> charlie-tca: about the other bugs: yes, i guess cody/ubuntu needs a better plan
<charlie-tca> but every app appears to affected by the resize grips thing
<ochosi> yeah...
<ochosi> that's why i said before: i don't get why they did that
<charlie-tca> well, calc and screen shot are okay
<ochosi> they will be flooded with bugreports
<mr_pouit> hey there, the xfwm4 was uploaded last night (4.8.0-0ubuntu2)
<ochosi> mm nice
<ochosi> thanks mr_pouit 
<charlie-tca> Thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-29
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: if thunar is open at restart, I spawn over 40 windows for it when I log in
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: in natty, of course, after yesterday's updates including the 2.6.38 kernel
<charlie-tca> it seems to related to having a USB thumbdrive plugged in. If I eject the volume, the spawning stops
<ochosi> charlie-tca: maybe thunar-volman?
<ochosi> there's the option of automatically opening thunar when plugging in a thumbdrive etc
<charlie-tca> could be, but it just keeps going, alternating spawning every thunar window that was open at shutdown, plus the usb drive windows
<charlie-tca> until I eject the volume
<ochosi> try to disable the option and plug it back in
<charlie-tca> disable what option?
<charlie-tca> It is not mounted at restart. It auto mounts
<ochosi> go to xfce4-settings > removable drives and media > untick the "mount * when inserted/hotplugged"
<charlie-tca> but we need to find out why it doing this, too.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-01-30
<wildintellect> is there a script somewhere that is used to build the xubuntu release from an ubuntu release?
<wildintellect> or is it done by hand
<micahg> wildintellect: I believe there's a seed that's used to generate the CDs, it's a similar process to the ones to generate Ubuntu releases
<wildintellect> I'm reading https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization which someone pointed me to once but now I'm trying to automate it and can't really seem to find the a tool/script that automates
<micahg> I've never done that before, but that page looks pretty thorough in terms of teh process
<wildintellect> looks like the seed process you mentioned is a little different
<micahg> right, the two aren't the same
<wildintellect> I need to figure out which one is easier to automate, as I'm trying to do auto builds once a week of a Xubuntu derivative
<micahg> wildintellect: don't we already have daily builds?
<wildintellect> I'm making a LiveCD distro with a lot of additional packages
<wildintellect> so much it's actually a DVD
<micahg> ah
<wildintellect> right now I use remastersys to make the final iso
<wildintellect> but I'm not super happy with that method
<micahg> wildintellect: idk I haven't done this yet
<wildintellect> It also doesn't install very well
<wildintellect> all sorts of quirks
<wildintellect> any docs on the daily builds?
<wildintellect> well I doubt the daily builds include the LiveCD variant
<micahg> yeah, they have a live version of the dailies
<wildintellect> do you know where those are? maybe I can track down the tool used to generate those
<j1mc> cdimage.ubuntu.com
<micahg> wildintellect: I believe it's built into LP, there's a plan to allow derivatives to build CDs on demand at some point
<slooksterpsv> Hi all, couple of questions, I'd like to try and compile xfce 4.8 to put it up on a PPA on launchpad, but I'm unsure of a couple of things: 1 - do I use the prefix of /usr /usr/local etc... 2 - do I need to use checkinstall; I think that's it
<micahg> slooksterpsv: Launchpad only takes source uploads, so checkinstall won't help
<slooksterpsv> oh ok
<slooksterpsv> question, do I need to compile and install thunar vfs, I'm not seeing that it's a requirement to build xfce 4.8 on the building page
<slooksterpsv> ok question again, I got it all built it works, except, it put all the /etc files in /usr/etc - I built everything using --prefix=/usr - per building instructions, should I not have or... what did I do or didn't do?
<Gazzy> hi 
<Gazzy> damn bot
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-23
<scott-work> good morningin
<scott-work> morning, even
<GridCube> does the mechanics of installation have changed?
<GridCube> i mean i start the cd and i get a dark purple screen
<GridCube> with a small keyboard logo and an equal and an accessibility logo
<GridCube> and if i dont press any key it goes and loads what i guess its the live cd?
<GridCube> but i havent been able to pass the [xubuntu 12.04][ ... ] screen so far in like 15 minutes of waiting
<GridCube> im using a vbox with 900mb of ram dedicated
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/195073
<GridCube> i get this error now
<micahg> GridCube: do you have PAE enabled?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> if not it wont let me start
<baizon> i get this error every boot on 11.10
<GridCube> its there a bug report for it?
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/195074
<GridCube> failed xsession i guess?
<GridCube> or like, its just loading
<GridCube> now thinks are just black
<GridCube> s/thinks/things/
<GridCube> well live session has started
<GridCube> but its in english, by default
<GridCube> i don't understand what happened
<GridCube> why does it magically went to live session
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> or, since when does that?
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> ok i think i've found a huge bug on ubiquity
<GridCube> if you choose >EspaÃ±ol at the begining of the installation
<GridCube> and then go to >instalar xubuntu
<GridCube> instead of the first option, that is try without installing
<GridCube> it then loads the live session
<GridCube> it doenst directly goes to the installer
<GridCube> oh :( ubuntu-bug doesnt work because i cant set a global proxy on xubuntu
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> how do i collect the data?
<GridCube> well, cant use ubuntu-bug on the test box
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/920639
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 920639 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "The "install only" doesnt work on xubuntu Precise Daily" [Undecided,New]
<GridCube> knome, hello
<GridCube> today i tried to install a live session
<GridCube> i've seen a few silly errors on the installer :P
<GridCube> for example, when it goes to show you the pretty screens that welcome you to xubuntu and show the uses it has
<GridCube> it shows a mail being writen
<GridCube> that invites someone to use xubuntu oneiric :P
<knome> can you file a bug against errm xubuntu-default-settings or sth, and add me as the assignee
<knome> actually
<knome> wait
<knome> file it against https://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu and set me as assignee
<GridCube> also see the other bug i already reported?
<knome> that's something cjwatson should take care of
<GridCube> okay
<GridCube> knome, how to find you to assing?
<GridCube> i cant assign you
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+bug/920656
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 920656 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "incorrect text on a xubuntu precise intaller slideshow" [Undecided,New]
<knome> done
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> oh, pasi :P
<GridCube> never would guess that
<knome> hu? :P
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-24
<jps> Hi ! Good Morning!!!
<jps> Is there any way to change the ICON of Application Menu in Xubuntu?
<jps> I am trying to create custom distro from Xubuntu
<mr_pouit> right click on the menu icon > properties, then click on the icon
<jps> Thank you <mr_pouit>. It worked
<jps> is there any way to hide session on login screen of Xubuntu
<jps> I am able to disable Guest login till now from login screen
<jps> but not able to hide session option 
<Unit193> Why hello there, jono 
<jono> hey Unit193 :-)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-25
<Unit193> Seems I've been talking to the wrong one all this time...
<mr_pouit> micahg: thanks for the ristretto sync (you're too fast :p). I've synced xfce4-netload-plugin that entered testing at the same time.
<micahg> ok, was going to do that later, would you prefer me to leave those for you?
<mr_pouit> no no, that's fine
<knome> micahg, mr_pouit prefers if you handle it all, always
<micahg> heh, well, xubuntu new stuff I know we want, I sync right away, ubuntu studio stuff I sync with the same rules as the rest of universe in that if there's something beneficial, I sync it
<mr_pouit> I only check when I receive the "$prog $version MIGRATED to testing" mails, so if you've already synced the packages, I won't complain ;-)
<micahg> well, I get those which is why I sync'd ristretto, but I also check https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+localpackagediffs?field.name_filter=&field.package_type=non-ignored&field.package_type-empty-marker=1&field.packageset=105&field.packageset=98&field.packageset=100 with the xubuntu, mozilla, and ubuntustudio packagesets enabled
<GridCube> ochosi, look :D http://www.webupd8.org/2012/01/get-better-looking-qt-applications-in.html
<ochosi> GridCube: already commented there
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> :P
<ochosi> and mr_pouit promised to include the workaround/fix in xubuntu-default-settings
<GridCube> :D thats pretty awesome
<GridCube> i ten
<GridCube> d 
<GridCube> to leave qt applications out when choosing because of their looks
<ochosi> actually this has never been a problem since (i guess) 10.04
<ochosi> in fact this behavior is a regression
<ochosi> no clue whether it's qt or ubuntu
<micahg> hmm, that's using gconf, I wonder if we're using gconf or gsettings in 12.04 (Ubuntu is using gsettings)
<ochosi> whatever works is fine for me
<ochosi> i basically run a script for qt apps that adds the gtk-theme to an environment variable
<ochosi> (export GTK2_RC_FILES=$HOME/.gtkrc-2.0 and that file only contains the info that the theme to use is greybird)
<ochosi> even the qt4-qtconfig tool fails miserably in oneiric
<pleia2> knome: finally updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website to reflect our current "To Do" based on the latest revision
<mr_pouit> micahg: yep, I'm not sure why, it seems to work with vlc, even on precise. I guess something in qt somewhere checks gconf and not gsettings
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-26
<micahg> a dist-upgrade right now might remove xubuntu-desktop so watch out (should be fixed after the indicator plugin builds in 6 hours)
<knome> mr_pouit, micahg: is there any technical updates this week worth mentioning in our mail to the release list?
<mr_pouit> mmh, nothing impacting other flavours
<knome> something bigger then?
<knome> i mean, even if it didn't affect ;]
<mr_pouit> mmh, micahg synced a new upstream bugfix release of ristretto, and I added patches in xfdesktop4 to support single click to open items, and I've backported from 4.9.x the new mouse/touchpad dialog for xfce4-settings
<mr_pouit> I guess that's all for the "bigger" things
<knome> ok
<knome> madnick, will you gather that up?
<madnick> knome: yeah, ill write it down and send the email later tonight when i get home
<knome> madnick, thanks
<holstein> those bot commands always seem like they will save time... 
<GridCube> :P
<astraljava> holstein: Err... please elaborate?
<holstein> astraljava: that should have went to *offtopic... it was just in reference to some activity in the main channel
<astraljava> Oh ok. Main channel for Xubuntu, as in #xubuntu? If so, then I missed it, as I'm not there.
<holstein> yeah... i just checked, and figured thats why you were not in the know
<astraljava> Gotcha.
<knome> micahg, what's up with https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/murrine-themes/+bug/856939
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 856939 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "Default Thunderbird icons in Oneiric unusable with Greybird" [Medium,In progress]
<micahg> knome: let me do that now
<ochosi> :)
<knome> :)
<knome> ochosi, want to go through the slideshow now?
<ochosi> nah, sorry, too tired already
<knome> okay
<knome> i'll prepare the stuff then so we can get working asap
<ochosi> ok, thanks
<ochosi> as i said, probably not until after fosdem
<knome> yup, np
<astraljava> knome: I fail to see the unusability, but meh. :)
<knome> astraljava, white on light gray?
<knome> well it's not *unusable*, but it's not really as accessible as it could, and it's not pretty either
<astraljava> Well, I have it here, and I can totally use it. Although I always prefer key shortcuts, but still... I maintain my meh.
<knome> ochosi, https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-precise
<ochosi> knome: ok, thanks. i'll go get some sleep now
<knome> oki :) sleep tight
<ochosi> ty, have a lot of work tomorrow again, so i'll need it
<ochosi> have fun y'all!
<knome> heh, strenght and honor with work ;)
<knome> -typos
<ochosi> lol
<knome> like the romans used to say
<knome> roma victor
<ochosi> is that from that stupid hercules tv-series?
<astraljava> That, or Xena the Warrior Princess.
<knome> gladiator at least
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> but i suppose that's historically true
<astraljava> What, Xena?
<knome> makes much sense to say that to soldiers who are most probably going to die
<knome> no, "strength and honour"
<astraljava> Heheh. Gotcha.
<astraljava> I've always wondered about it. It's like that Gary Moore song:"No flag has ever stopped a buller from a gun."
<astraljava> How do you, exactly, motivate soldiers to die for their country?
<astraljava> But I suppose it's not really a matter for this channel. :D
<knome> it's kind of relevant
<knome> how do you motivate developers to mentally die for their OS?
<astraljava> Hahah! Yeah, we're dying for our apps. Right.
<knome> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hei6xjHbiKU&t=00m39s
<astraljava> Always cracks me up.
<knome> i hope only figuratively..
<astraljava> Well, yeah. Also, "Da bull is not here" and "I will be a martyr" are hilarious.
<knome> not as hilarious.
<knome> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXiIV_ecS88 is hilarious :)
<astraljava> Maybe. It's hard to tell. I'm still a bit overloaded with all Kummeli. We were in Boston for 5 weeks back in Oct. - Nov. '09, and the lead dev kept rotating those. And also the Lauri TÃ¤hkÃ¤ parody.
<knome> haven't seen any tÃ¤hkÃ¤ parody, and don't want to :P
<astraljava> Nah, ...Karvattomat never did it for me.
<astraljava> Oh c'mon, you know you want to.
<knome> very good groove
<astraljava> There were others, as well. Irina, I believe, and I forget who.
<knome> meh
<astraljava> Bah.
 * knome lols at "matalalla profiililla"
<knome> astraljava, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gmZPrmEUQc&t=00m59s ;))
<astraljava> I'm sorry, they still don't do it for me.
<astraljava> But, I do need to pee now.
<astraljava> It may, or may not, be related.
<knome> don't pee in your pants
<astraljava> Managed not to.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-27
<knome> i think i'm off to sleep now
<knome> see you tomorrow
<astraljava> See ya, have a good one!
<knome> madnick, thanks for sending the email :)
 * knome is off until late
<knome> see you
<madnick> cya
<ochosi> i haven't upgraded in a while (always did clean installs), it's really a bit scare when icons and gtk disappear :)
<ochosi> s/scare/scary
<ochosi> luckily the cli still looks the same
<micahg> ochosi: I've been meaning to file a bug, I get the offline icon now for network applet on precise when I'm connected
<ochosi> micahg: in the tray/indicator or in the notification-bubble?
<ochosi> i don't know exactly what version of elementary-xfce you're using, the first upload had a few small bugs (so this might be fixed in bzr already)
<micahg> indicator
<micahg> 12.04.0 of xubuntu icon theme
<ochosi> hm, so i guess it's still the initial version
<ochosi> :/
<micahg> are there upstream releases of elementary xfce?
<pleia2> knome: I updated the Website wiki page todo list
<ochosi> no, i'm releasing/maintaining it
<micahg> ochosi: is this work beneficial for others
<ochosi> so, in that respect yes: since i'm upstream =)
<ochosi> i don't think anyone else uses elementary-xfce yet
<micahg> I'm just wondering if we should give it its own source
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> hm, maybe ask the studio-guys
<ochosi> i dunno what icon-theme they're using
<ochosi> but if they're using elementary then they'll be in trouble in precise
<micahg> that way other derivatives as well as other distros can easily include it
<ochosi> (elementary-upstream decided to drop a shitload of symlinks, so... breakage)
<ochosi> yeah, i agree that giving it its own source might make sense
<ochosi> although it might be odd for lubuntuers to use a theme called elementary-xfce :p
<ochosi> (iirc they also use elementary)
<ochosi> brb
<ochosi> re
<ochosi> micahg: seems -studio guys haven't decided yet what icon-theme to go with. still it might be a good choice to put the icon-theme in a separate package. any opinions on the matter mr_pouit ?
<holstein> ScottL: you around?
<holstein> this something i know we were discussing
<holstein> ochosi: ill make sure i get this in the dev channel, or get you guys talking at some point
<ochosi> k, thanks
<ochosi> g2g now
<mr_pouit> ochosi: why not, I don't really mind
<mr_pouit> ochosi: btw, I think the bluetooth systray icon (e.g. with blueman) is missing from elementary-xfce-dark. I tried quickly on my debian here, and it's the only icon that stayed dark on the dark panel ;>
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ah, good to know, i never use blueman/bluetooth devices
<micahg> gah, I still need to update/SRU that
<ochosi> what?
<micahg> blueman
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> mr_pouit: in case i forget about the bluetooth-thing, feel free to poke me again... (sry, got a lot of things in my head atm)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: hey, don't forget about the bluetooth-thing
 * mr_pouit hides
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> well e.g. remind me @fosdem after a few beers. i'm sure i'll remember it then ;)
<mr_pouit> huhuhu
<ochosi> ok, so green light on putting the icon theme in a separate source then
<ochosi> mr_pouit and/or micahg: feel free to get on with it then ;)
<micahg> ochosi: you need to make an upstream release first ;)
<ochosi> hihi
<ochosi> ok, i guess i'll maintain it in github then
<ochosi> unless you prefer bzr (it's soo slow...)
<mr_pouit> no, bzr isn't slow, it's all the other that are faster ;-)
 * mr_pouit runs
<ochosi> :)
<mr_pouit> can you do a shimmer-themes compilation too? I'm too lazy to fetch all shimmer themes separately for the shimmer-themes package :3
<ochosi> you mean in github?
<mr_pouit> mmh, maybe not if you have to duplicate everything
<ochosi> well, it's not a big deal
<ochosi> i can even move all themes to one repo
<ochosi> the only downside is that if $users want to download a tarball they always get all the themes
<micahg> ochosi: you can do multiple tarballs (source format 3 FTW)
<mr_pouit> oh, I forgot about that
<ochosi> micahg: hmm, true, i think i can add individual tarballs to the download-section in github. but i think they wouldn't be up-to-date
<micahg> ochosi: you make an upstream "release" when you want to, we pull that in, what's not up-to-date
<ochosi> micahg: sounds good
<mr_pouit> I'll put albatross+bluebird+greybird in shimmer-themes then
<mr_pouit> what's the status of shearwater?
<ochosi> it's stalled (or even abandoned)
<mr_pouit> ok
<ochosi> we'll revamp albatross first and make a gtk3 version
 * Unit193 perks up at greybird
<ochosi> i don't think shearwater is going to happen unless someone else steps up
<ochosi> Unit193: you just tought me a new word .)
<Unit193> ochosi: My mind s/greybird/blackbird/ :P
<ochosi> hehe
<mr_pouit> ochosi: fyi, it's included in murrine-themes
<ochosi> mr_pouit: what, shearwater?
<mr_pouit> yeah ^_^
<ochosi> mr_pouit: oh lord... iirc it was in a very early state. i mean i guess it's usable, but not exactly pretty
<mr_pouit> (heh, you should ping Corsac about that)
<ochosi> yeah, probably should do that... otoh if he likes it why not
<ochosi> i think there are more themes in that package that are unmaintained and underdeveloped
<mr_pouit> micahg: with 3.0+multiple tarballs, the drawback is that I've to invent a version number for the compilation ;-)
<ochosi> no problem, can do :)
<micahg> mr_pouit: indeed :), that depends on whether or not the "upstream" releases are in sync
<ochosi> i think we discussed that earlier, that we need a version number for shimmer-themes anyway
<ochosi> we'll make it 1.1 (target for 2.0 is having full gtk3 for all three themes)
<micahg> mr_pouit: I haven't merged murrine-themes as I wasn't sure if our version of greybird was newer than Debian's
<mr_pouit> ochosi: yeah, I hope you don't mind tarballs like shimmer-themes_1.1.orig-{albatross,bluebird,greybird}.tar.gz
<mr_pouit> micahg: indeed, I don't remember either. The current plan is to split the shimmer themes to a shimmer-themes package, as we don't want so many murrine-themes by default (that's the clean-up-something-blueprint)
<micahg> sounds good
<micahg> I assume Corsac is ok with this in Debain as well?
<mr_pouit> Good point, I haven't asked him yet :[
<ochosi> right, i'm off for tonight, too tired to get more work done
<astraljava> Anyone tried installing from desktop today? Our tester reports ubiquity crashing.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-28
<ScottL> i had ubiquity fail on an xubuntu install that i downloaded last night
<pleia2> knome: have some time soon to talk website stuff?
 * pleia2 is home all day, recovering from flu
<knome> sure
<knome> how about now? ;)
<pleia2> sure
<knome> so all the code-stuff can be considered done now
<knome> except one thing
<pleia2> I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website and as far as I know all the todo items are still outstanding
<knome> the "latest news" column doesn't have the subscription links
<knome> this isn't blocker
<knome> we can add them later, or decide to add them elsewhere
<knome> if we want them there, i need to poke the code a bit
<pleia2> subscription links, like for RSS feed?
<knome> yeah
<knome> and the email
<pleia2> the email thing is silly I think, but we should link RSS and Older Posts somewhere obvious
<knome> footer?
<pleia2> yeah, that could do
<knome> i mean
<pleia2> maybe replace Meta
<knome> rss in the footer
<knome> older posts can be listed in the non-frontpage pages in the sidebar
<knome> meta is removed altogether
<pleia2> ah yes, it is
<pleia2> good
<pleia2> what is the older posts link?
<knome> i mean, we can *list* them :)
<pleia2> currently wp.xubuntu.org/i_like_cookies even works so it's hard to figure out ;)
<knome> or print the categories
<knome> or whatever
<knome> lol
<knome> dang
<knome> i actually need to touch the repository one more time
<knome> :|
<pleia2> there was talk of a link to an archives page which lists the stubs by date
<pleia2> (sort of standard wordpress archives thing)
<knome> hmhm, can you point me to one of those?
<knome> or do you just mean the post listings
<pleia2> http://princessleia.com/journal/?m=201105
<knome> mmh. yeah
<knome> do we want an archive with excerpts?
<pleia2> I think so
<knome> right...
<knome> so that's an another thing i need to do
<pleia2> is the footer static in the theme?
<knome> no
<knome> it runs with widgets
<pleia2> ok cool, so I can make the updates to change "Xubuntu Links" to "Useful Links"
<knome> uep
<knome> *yep
<knome> you should edit the menus
<pleia2> and what should be in "Quick Links" on every page?
<pleia2> it's empty now
<knome> i suppose the three links that are in the left side of the footer
<knome> under that, we could add the post archives + stuff
<knome> http://wp.xubuntu.org/wp-admin/nav-menus.php
<knome> to edit the menus in footer
<knome> that should update the menu everywhere :)
<pleia2> cool, thanks
<knome> sidebar fixed
<knome> partly
<knome> i'll fix the images
<knome> i think we want the small ones for all the places, right?
<knome> i mean, the size in the footer
<knome> just looks so much cleaner
<pleia2> I think the big ones are ok
<pleia2> are you seeing overlapping of the quick links on the main page?
<knome> they are maybe a bit too big
<pleia2> (might just be chrome)
<knome> yup! that's the thing i need to fix
<pleia2> ok good
<knome> what about something in between?
<pleia2> sure
<knome> okay
<knome> i'll do that then
<pleia2> can we get a 404 page instead of defaulting to show the archives? (it's confusing)
<knome> and maybe increase the text size
<knome> so they fit together better
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> hmm. i'm not sure why something that is happening, is happening
<knome> i need to investigate
<pleia2> oh, and do we have a site map?
<knome> mmh, nope.
<knome> but i hope to be able to get all pages linked in the front page
<knome> and the sidebar too
<pleia2> ok, so no need for a site map then
<knome> so we don't actually need one
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> I don't know if /press is linked anywhere
<knome> that's why there are three columns under the screenshots
<knome> we still have one not used
<pleia2> cool
<knome> so just create a new menu, and add a widget to that area printing the menu
 * knome should update xubuntu.yourdomain.com with the newest plugin/theme :)
<pleia2> k
<knome> ugh, what was the local path again
<knome> ah, found it
<knome> ok, done
<knome> we're running most recent stuff
<knome> http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/
<knome> how does that look now?
<pleia2> ah, that's good :)
<knome> yeah
<knome> i think it's an improvement
<knome> not TOO big :)
<pleia2> my brain is full of fail today, FOCUS
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> knome: what do you think about this, I moved the menus around http://wp.xubuntu.org/
<knome> works for me
<knome> maybe the links in "news links" could be a bit longer
<knome> like
<knome> "Xubuntu in the Press"
<pleia2> bah, I mixed everything up
<knome> "Browse the News archive"
<pleia2> ok
<knome> "Subscribe to our RSS feed"
<knome> just that it doens't look so empty :)
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> there we go
<knome> great
<pleia2> ok, updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website
<pleia2> so I think we just need summary-style archives page and a 404 page
<knome> yup
<knome> i'm on the excerpts
<pleia2> comments are silly, I think we want to default to disabling them
<knome> okay
<pleia2> hooray for bulk edit
<knome> http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/i_like_cookies
<knome> it's a problem in the xubuntu.org hosting
<pleia2> annoying
<pleia2> ok, all the key pages are now linked from the front page
<knome> do we ever want comments?
<knome> if not, i'll just remove all the code related to those
<knome> so we'll fallback to default
<knome> that's done :P
<pleia2> yeah, no comments ever
<knome> http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/2011/08/
<knome> excerpts + pagination
<pleia2> looksg good :)
<knome> brb
<knome> pleia2, i'm about to switch to the new plugin
<pleia2> ok
<knome> http://xubuntu.princessleia.com/
<knome> does it already
<knome> hover over the image
<pleia2> nice!
<knome> (and click the arrows)
<knome> i just need to get out one bug
<ochosi> knome: looks nice!
<knome> ochosi, thanks!
<knome> it's using the new photoslider version of the plugin1!!
<knome> -1
<ochosi> :)
<knome> and that was just a drop in
<knome> really
<ochosi> cool
<knome> no tweaking
<knome> just drop it in and change the settings
<pleia2> cool
<knome> well, i need to tweak the js code a bit
<knome> other than that, everything should be fine
<ochosi> hm, just one tiny comment: in the quick-links, could the icons also be recolored on hover?
<ochosi> oh, the fact that i get a horizontal scrollbar on the page after the first pic slides away, is that the bug you were referring to?
<knome> ochosi, bug:yup
<knome> ochosi, hover: maybe
<pleia2> apparently I was optimistic about the "recovering" part of my flu, my fever is back, heading to bed again!
<knome> awwh
<knome> get well soon!
<pleia2> thanks :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-01-29
<ochosi> is it just me or is lubuntu now also copying our default panel-layout? :) http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/2012/01/ozone-3.html
<TheSheep> ochosi: I wouldn't say they are copying it, there is a limited number of solutions that works and even smaller number of solutions that users are used to
<ochosi> yeah, i know, but they seem to establish a small tradition of following some of xubuntu's decisions one release later
<ochosi> first bluebird, then greybird, now the panel layout :)
<ochosi> but i agree with you of course, i was mainly joking around
<TheSheep> you can feel smug that it apparently were good deciwssions
<TheSheep> decisions
<TheSheep> they
<TheSheep> I can't english toay
<ochosi> well, that's one possible conclusion :)
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> you can't english? oh, poor sheep...
<TheSheep> yeah, I accidentally
<ochosi> it's a pity though that there is no collaboration between them and us. i reached out to them two releases ago, but there was little echo (apart from me helping them fix a few bugs in their variant of bluebird)
<TheSheep> ochosi: oh, they do, just their communication is based on stigmergy
<TheSheep> sometimes that's the best way
<TheSheep> show what you mean by actually doing it
<ochosi> heh
 * ochosi just learned a new word
<ochosi> that's not exactly what i meant with collaboration, but ok :)
<mr_pouit> awesome, I've less than 50 posts on the ubuntu forums, so I can't edit my profile <3
<mr_pouit> whoever designed this system had a iq of 759
<knome> hahah
<ochosi> lol
<mr_pouit> I registered in 2005 ;(
<knome> hah, i never registered
<knome> i think...
<knome> i mean, forums is not my cup of tea
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, there you have it. tradition doesn't give you the right to edit _your_ profile. content-less blabbering on the other hand does... =)
<mr_pouit> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1913468
<knome> bbl ->
<ochosi> mr_pouit: well in fact it's kinda understandable. but an "if userage > 2yrs" might help...
<ochosi> (and with userage i mean account-age)
<ScottL> can someone help me with this issue?  http://imagebin.org/196207
<ScottL> i'm trying to adjust the xubuntu-default-settings package for ubuntu studio
<ScottL> but when installing over an existing xubuntu install it is saying that it can't replace the .Xdefaults file
<ScottL> i renamed the .Xdefaults file and then tried to reinstall it but it still gave me this save error
<ScottL> so i'm thinking that it's not just the fact the file exists but apparently that it's part of the xubuntu-default-settings package
<ScottL> i was going to try a presint file to rename the file but not sure this is going to work now :/
<ScottL> any suggestions
<ochosi> ScottL: have you tried uninstalling xubuntu-default-settings first?
<ochosi> and, have you set the package to replace xubuntu-default-settings?
<ochosi> (i'm stabbing blindly you know, i'm not a packager :) )
<ochosi> ScottL: another question, what icon theme will you be using in -studio? elementary or something else?
<ScottL> ochosi, i just did that and it worked (sorry was in another channel )
<ScottL> ochosi, i don't know how to 'replace' another file
<ScottL> packaging is certainly not my strong suit
<ochosi> i thought it's a package option you can set, replaces blahblah
<ScottL> oh, in the control file?!
<ochosi> yup
<ScottL> ochosi, astraljava pointed out that removing xubuntu-default-settings is not conducive to removing the ubuntustudio settings and reverting back to the previous settings
<ScottL> ochosi, he suggested installing .Xdefault.ubuntustudio, then renaming both files in the postin fiel
<ScottL> file
<ScottL> then reverting in the postrm file back to the original .Xdefault settings
<ScottL> ochosi, can you think of any objections to this approach?
<astraljava> ScottL: I'm not sure if the user would then lose that file, if after installing Studio's package removes Xubuntu's package.
<ochosi> ScottL: phu, i'd say talk to micahg or mr_pouit about that ;)
<astraljava> ochosi: Micah just joined the conversation on our -devel. :)
<ochosi> ah ok :)
<astraljava> Hey dudes and dudettes, has there been a change in ubiquity, not supporting encrypted partitions anymore?
<micahg> , ubiquity always only supported encrypted home
<micahg> *SIUI
<micahg> *AIUI
<astraljava> Oh, okay then.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-21
<micahg> knome: new needed dependencies mostly
<micahg> knome: there are probably a few things we can drop, but idk if I can get us back to CD size on amd64 without dropping more functionality
<micahg> I'll keep trying though
<micahg> knome: mr_pouit: ochosi: do we need gtk2-engines if we have gtk2-engines-murrine and gtk2-engines-pixbuf
<FlowRiser> hey all, i have a question regarding deploying a app to the xfce desktop environment. I want to make a qt/qml launcher for the xfce desktop environment, how can i make my app behave like the xfce4-panel ?
<FlowRiser> knome ? Can i get your opinion on the above question ? :D
<mr_pouit> micahg: I think murrine+pixbuf is enough
<micahg> do we need the tango icon theme?
<ochosi> micahg: i don't think so, hicolor and elementary-xfce should suffice
<micahg> ochosi: ok, dropping, thanks
<ochosi> micahg: but i can check again to be sure ;)
<ochosi> wait, i don't even have that installed, are you talking about 12.04 or 12.10?
<micahg> ochosi: heh, we already dropped that, I was looking at an old revision
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> cause that was one of the targets of the previous release, being able to get rid of the gnome and tango-icon-themes
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-22
<hrw> hello
<astraljava> Yes, obviously it might help to actually step inside the meeting room. /me makes some sort of a record in being dumb.
<astraljava> ...aaaaand wrong room, still.
<Unit193> Good one!
 * drc wonders if astraljava is missing his pants also :)
<astraljava> They _were_ the best pair.
<knome> :P
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-23
<TheLordOfTime> ohai anyone in the xubuntu devs able to answer a question regarding a bug found in Xubuntu?
 * TheLordOfTime works on ubuntu server, and is on bugsquad, but would like some consultation on how a specific xubuntu bug needs processed
<pleia2> TheLordOfTime: most of our devs are in europe so sleeping right now, you can probably just ask and they'll get to it when they're awake :)
<TheLordOfTime> i see
<TheLordOfTime> well, then.
<TheLordOfTime> this bug was confirmed in xscreensaver, but was opinion'd in fglrx.  the person managing the bug (agrestringere) is itrying to figure out a specific course of action:
<TheLordOfTime> whether to assign xscreensaver and remove fglrx
<TheLordOfTime> or wether to leave fglrx
<TheLordOfTime> its a bug reported in Xubuntu, so i thought i'd consult with xubuntu-devs to figure out their recommendation 
<TheLordOfTime> before blindly following standard ubuntu triage guides.
<TheLordOfTime> pretty certain the course of action needed though
<TheLordOfTime> just checking ;)
<agrestringere> Hello, have an Xubuntu related bug was wondering if Xscreensaver could be the culprit here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/1015297
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1015297 in Xubuntu "Screen partially darkened after suspend and resume in Xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<TheLordOfTime> i'm already here agrestringere :P
<TheLordOfTime> agrestringere, i already asked proper triage procedure for this, but since most the devs, according to pleia2, are in europe/asleep, i think we will need to wait on a response
<Unit193> TheLordOfTime: But he linked faster. ;)
<TheLordOfTime> Unit193, true, because i lagged when i pasted hte bug
<TheLordOfTime> it was supposed to be sent but got lost apparently
<micahg> agrestringere: it could be XScreensaver exposing a bug in the video drivers
<agrestringere> micahg, so you think I should include all relevant graphics packages?
<micahg> agrestringere: no, I think you might want to discuss with either the kernel or X teams to try to narrow down the issue
<agrestringere> ok
<knome> ochosi, at some point, would you please go through https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-appearance and create work items?
<maddernick> what was it he asked me to do? Was I to make a merge request?
<knome> maddernick, mmh, that (though the previous comment didn't relate to that specifically)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-24
<micahg> knome: I most likely won't be able to make this week's meeting
<knome> micahg, oki, np
<ochosi> hi there
<knome> micahg, that reminds me i should add your extra comment to the minutes
<knome> micahg, though it's a bit late now >:)
<knome> i don't think anybody said about anything though.
<knome> we should get the docs SRU to .3 or .3
<knome> ... or .4
<micahg> we still have time for .3, especially if it's just our pacakge
<micahg> err....2
<pleia2> we haven't actually done the updating work yet :)
<knome> yes, that
<micahg> ok, well, whenever it's ready
<knome> that's why i was referring to .3 or .e :)
<knome> .... .4
<micahg> I'll see if I can get the ISOs to CD size later
<knome> !
<pleia2> knome: clearly we need to get it in for .3, since your .4 key isn't working
<knome> that must be it
<micahg> .e should be between .2 and .3...
<knome> hah :P
<micahg> knome: I'll drop langpacks in line with Ubuntu for .2 unless you object?
<knome> langpacks as in?
<micahg> I have to see which ones
<knome> so you are referring to just "some languages" ?
<micahg> I'll diff the manifests between .1 and the dailies as well
<micahg> yes
<knome> ok, that's fine
<micahg> I need to put the alternate amd64 .2 image on a diet, it's 40MB oversized
<knome> huh
<micahg> umm...50MB http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily/current/
<knome> ughghh
<pleia2> this is going to become increasingly hard and it's eating up micahg's precious time, when do we draw the line here?
<micahg> that's precise
<pleia2> oh :(
<micahg> raring isn't in as bad of shape
<micahg> we dropped alternates for quantal
<pleia2> bad pangolin
<pleia2> right
<knome> what's the lightest gui hex editor?
<micahg> curses count?
<knome> nah
<knome> i think ghex does what i want
<ochosi> knome: shouldn't there be a meeting in 10 minutes?
<maddernick> if UTC == GMT then yes
 * maddernick is not sure
<ochosi> maddernick: about plymouth: mr_pouit created a branch for raring now for xubuntu-artwork, so if you could create a proper branch of that and push your changes there, that'd be great!
<ochosi> then the often-mentioned merge-request
<maddernick> create a proper private branch and do a merge? Or can I push directly there?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: what do you prefer? ^
 * pleia2 yawns
<pleia2> yeah, meeting in a couple minutes
<ochosi> i'm hoping i can stay, but it might be that there's a meeting in my office and i have to leave, just sayin...
<maddernick> im in & out due to cooking :P
<GridCube> ;)
<GridCube> meeting is now according to timeanddate.com
<GridCube> :D
<smartboyhw> yep:P
<mr_pouit> ochosi: let's do a private branch and request a merge, so the 'real' branch only contains the final "product" :P
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yup, sounds like a clean approach. maddernick ^
<maddernick> okay
<maddernick> will do
<ochosi> thanks
<maddernick> ochosi: ill make a branch containing the spinner one
<pleia2> knome: you about?
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan 24 15:02:51 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<pleia2> #chair pleia2 knome ochosi maddernick
<meetingology> Current chairs: knome maddernick ochosi pleia2
<ochosi> maddernick: sounds good, ping and i'll test it
<pleia2> #topic Items carried on
<pleia2> ok, lets see here..
<pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2012-01-09
<pleia2> GridCube: any update on your QA item?
<GridCube> the qa was already released
<GridCube> oh... no sorry
<pleia2> GridCube: the tracker updates?
<GridCube> i didnt knew i had tha item on me
<pleia2> :)
<GridCube> i though it was faq
<GridCube> no, will see to it
<pleia2> oops
<pleia2> wrong year!
<pleia2> haha
<GridCube> XD
<smartboyhw> Found the new one
<GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<pleia2> just clicked on the first january I saw on the archive page ;)
<smartboyhw> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2013-01-10
<GridCube> that makes more sense
<pleia2> micahg: said he wouldn't be able to make it and knome isn't here yet
<pleia2> my action item depends on knome's
<pleia2> bluesabre_: you about?
<bluesabre_> hey!
<pleia2> smartboyhw: thanks, adding this link to the archives now
<pleia2> bluesabre_: any update on you action items? (please use #info I always forget)
<bluesabre_> #info Testing list sent to knome
<bluesabre_> and I haven't done anything with yelp yet
<bluesabre_> should I #info that?
 * micahg is actually here
<pleia2> micahg: oh good, you're next ;)
<pleia2> bluesabre_: nah
<pleia2> bluesabre_: thanks!
<pleia2> micahg: lots of action items for you last time, any updates? :)
<micahg> I don't think so, let me check lie list
<micahg> s/lie/the/
<micahg> nope, the raring ISO grew another 1.5MB
<pleia2> ok, thanks
<micahg> I should have a little time this weekend, though not sure how much I can get through
<pleia2> :)
<micahg> I'll probably focus on ISO size if we have people willing to test
<micahg> otherwise, I'd rather work on the build failures
 * pleia2 nods
<micahg> or bugs that need fixing in 12.04.2
<micahg> like exo helpers not working with Firefox apparmor enabled
 * GridCube opinion is that file size its not that relevant anymore
<pleia2> ok, so I think we can poke around to see if there are testers about this weekend (I'd like to volunteer, but my weekend is packed this week)
<pleia2> otherwise.. do the otherwise :)
<micahg> even if we have testers, it's more if the ISO size makes a difference to the testers
 * pleia2 nods
 * micahg will brb
<pleia2> #topic Team updates
<pleia2> we adjusted the agenda a bit so we no longer are going through each team in a subtopic-y order
<pleia2> (we'll see how this goes :))
<ochosi> :)
<pleia2> so anyone who has updates, you can just #info MARKETING: foo
<ochosi> #info ARTWORK: i'm working on our icon-theme quite a bit lately, people can check the progress here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce
<pleia2> \o/
<ochosi> #info ARTWORK: people can test/use them in any of our releases (P,Q,R). i'll be soon trying to weed out useless icons and duplicates, so keeping the theme locally up-to-date to check whether icons go missing would be helpful testing for me
<pleia2> ochosi: are there instructions for testing them somewhere?
<ochosi> #action ochosi to send testing-instructions to knome
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to send testing-instructions to knome
<pleia2> :D
<bluesabre_> knome is going to have a nice big blog post to write soon
<ochosi> pleia2: well it's really simple, "cd ~/.icons && git clone https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce.git"
<ochosi> and then "git pull" to update
<pleia2> yep, that's simple :)
<bluesabre_> and then the icon cache update, right?
<ochosi> (possibly "mkdir .icons" as a first command ;))
<ochosi> well, either i'll include that command in the instructions or i'll tell ppl to switch icon-themes back and forth
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> #info DOCUMENTATION: We're going to push the documentation SRU for 12.04 to the .3 release (this summer) instead of trying to get it in for .2 (which is coming up quick)
<pleia2> #info DOCUMENTATION: We still don't have a docs lead, so if there is anyone interested in pitching in on docs for 13.04, please do :)
<pleia2> #info WEBSITE: Opened a few bugs to update screenshots on the site, which I'm planning on completing this week
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to complete outstanding screenshot update bugs
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to complete outstanding screenshot update bugs
<pleia2> any development updates?
<pleia2> mr_pouit? :)
<bluesabre_> People are testing parole and reporting bugs, and we're fixing them :)
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre_> menulibre too :D
<mr_pouit> Not much on my side, I only merged xfburn from debian I think
<mr_pouit> yeah, bluesabre and ochosi are more active these days ;P
<pleia2> :)
<olbi> are you planning to add xfce 4.12 if it be released at march?
<mr_pouit> we already have the latest thunar and exo in raring
<GridCube> what about the weather plugin? 
<mr_pouit> Other components haven't been changed much for now, so I can't really tell
<micahg> Feature Freeze is Mar 7 IIRC
<micahg> I would think 4.12 would be targeted to 13.10
<mr_pouit> GridCube: 0.8.2 in raring right now
<ochosi> (btw, it's still another week to fosdem, but i might bring up the topic of a gtk3-compilable panel again there)
<micahg> please, that would fix our indicator problem at least
<GridCube> but 0.8.3 is to be released soon and it had lots of work apparently
<mr_pouit> GridCube: if it's released before feature freeze, no problem really :)
<GridCube> also, "Please note that 0.8.2 is actually unsupported because it's gradually falling apart, so better don't spend any more time on it.
<mr_pouit> (panel plugins an other goodies have their own release schedule)
<ochosi> i met hjudt for lunch today, i can motivate him to release it before ff ;)
<mr_pouit> *and other
<GridCube> http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-i18n/2013-January/008324.html
<ochosi> but i have to admit that it partly depends on me having enough time to complete the new icon-set for it
<pleia2> ok, any other updates?
<pleia2> #topic Announcements
<pleia2> any announcements? :)
<GridCube> not from me
<bluesabre_> none from me
<ochosi> same here
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> #topic Any other business
<pleia2> anything else at all?
<pleia2> I'm thinking we do another meeting in 2 weeks, same bat time/place
<GridCube> o/
<bluesabre_> sounds good to me
<GridCube> i have an idea
<pleia2> GridCube: go for it
<frustratedtech> I just want to chime in that I'm loving Xubuntu and I've been spending my sparetime trying to help others.  I just loaded up Xubuntu last week and am diving in full force. :D
<bluesabre_> awesome
<bluesabre_> :)
<GridCube> what if we make a deviantart group for xubuntu users and ask them to submit screenshots and wallpapers and such
<bluesabre_> I like this idea
<ochosi> frustratedtech: if you wanna help the project in any are feel free to help with whatever you can
<ochosi> yeah, dA is not a bad place for that
<frustratedtech> GridCube, no offense to the xfce-look guy, but I cannot stand that website.  As a web designer I can't handle it nor send people there.
<pleia2> I think the reason we didn't typically is they wouldn't be default on the CD (no space)
<pleia2> but if we could get a volunteer to make a separate package for them installable later, and people are ok with non-default
<ochosi> pleia2: yeah, but this can simply be a group (as in: collection), no strings attached
<pleia2> screenshots are good too though, last cycle we thought about a "this is my Xubuntu" sort of page for the website to show off how people are changing it for their needs
<GridCube> yes, but dA manages it better
<ochosi> pleia2: yeah, we could maybe take a feed from dA for that
<GridCube> we could make friends with the ubuntu-users group to
<pleia2> ochosi: don't want an unmoderated feed
<pleia2> people use crazy things as desktop backgrounds :x
<ochosi> GridCube: do you wanna moderate the xubuntu-group on dA?
<GridCube> it can be easily moderated
<bluesabre_> lol
<GridCube> i can do
<GridCube> it
<ochosi> pleia2: there you go ^ ;) (so it wouldn't be unmoderated)
<pleia2> then maybe cherry-pick ones to put on the site directly?
<pleia2> \o/
<ochosi> yeah, why not
<GridCube> sure
<ochosi> GridCube: and remember, no naked ladies! ;)
<pleia2> #action GridCube to create and moderate xubuntu-group on deviantart
<frustratedtech> Who is in charge of the overall design of the xubuntu website?
<meetingology> ACTION: GridCube to create and moderate xubuntu-group on deviantart
<GridCube> o.o but... but... its deviantart
<GridCube> ok no nakkid ladies
<GridCube> :)
<pleia2> yeah, have to keep it CoC-friendly if it's to be an official resource
<pleia2> (no naked anyones)
<pleia2> GridCube: can you also add me as a moderator? (we always have at least two for our social media-y things, in case of buses)
<GridCube> will do, you can create a simple toc for the joining members
<GridCube> sure pleia2 
<pleia2> (I won't actually do anything, just in case of emergency)
 * pleia2 checks if she has an account
<mr_pouit> (no naked ringtail either)
<ochosi> awwwh
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> thanks GridCube!
<pleia2> anything else?
<GridCube> :) no problem
 * micahg disappears for a while
<bluesabre_> frustratedtech, the theme is a knome-original
<olbi> bye all :) going home :]
<pleia2> GridCube: didn't have an account, but now I do as pleia2!
<GridCube> :)
<frustratedtech> bluesabre, I wouldn't mind getting in touch with them to help it out.
<pleia2> frustratedtech: yay, thanks!
<pleia2> frustratedtech: re: website, I'm the website lead and knome is our designer and main webdev
<pleia2> so knome is in charge of design
<frustratedtech> pleia2, nice.  I've being doing design for 15 years so I'd love to help in some way.
<ochosi> frustratedtech: if you wanna draw icons that'd be welcome ;)
<pleia2> frustratedtech: fungi> i can help you get the user added for that when the time comes to start testing
<pleia2>  oops
<GridCube> isnt the lightdm theme javascript/xml based?
<pleia2> frustratedtech: https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<pleia2> ^^ that's the code for the website
<pleia2> and outstanding bugs under the "bugs" link
<pleia2> it's wordpress
<mr_pouit> GridCube: css I think (it's gtk3 theming)
<frustratedtech> pleia2, ok.  get with me in private so I can help with getting these done.
<pleia2> frustratedtech: can you drop me an email? lyz@ubuntu.com (right after this I'm off to work :))
<frustratedtech> sure
<GridCube> mr_pouit, mmmhm ok
<pleia2> ok, anything else before we wrap up?
<GridCube> not from me
<pleia2> ok, thanks for coming everyone, and it was nice to see some new faces!
<bluesabre_> have fun at work pleia2
<pleia2> always do :)
<GridCube> pleia2, this is the most active ubuntu group on deviantART, http://ubuntu-artists.deviantart.com/
<pleia2> GridCube: yeah, I think that's the one doctormo moderates?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> ok, we'll finish up then
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan 24 15:54:30 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-01-24-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-01-24-15.02.html
<ochosi> thanks for chairing the meeting, pleia2 
<pleia2> sure :)
<GridCube> how should i call the group?
<GridCube> xubuntu-users?
<pleia2> artists is nice
<GridCube> xubuntu-artists? ok :)
<pleia2> yeah
<ochosi> or just xubuntu-art?
<bluesabre_> xubuntu-arteests
<bluesabre_> :)
<ochosi> or zoobuntu-fartists?
 * ochosi runs
<bluesabre_> wow, I need a new screenshot for my dA
<knome> yeah, sorry, was unable to attend today :/
<knome> frustratedtech, i suppose the best way to go forward with things would be if you sent a mail to the -devel list with your ideas for the website
<knome> frustratedtech, atm, i don't think there's going to be a big or even medium rewrite, but minor changes are definitely possible, if they can improve the site
<knome> pleia2, thanks for chairing the meeting
<knome> ochosi, well, it's your team... ;)
<bluesabre_> knome, with ubuntu talking about possibly moving to rolling release in 2014, how would that affect derivitives like xubuntu?  Or do we cross that bridge if/when it gets here?
<knome> i'm pretty certain ubuntu is willing to let flavors decide if they want to join that too or not
<knome> (if at all possible)
<knome> i think the most important thing to consider is looking how other flavors react to that
<frustratedtech> knome, I did sign up for the mailing list.  Didn't know if you'd want to talk one on one since your lead on web design
<knome> frustratedtech, the process needs to be transparent anyway, so doesn't matter
<frustratedtech> knome, there are a few things I'd recommend, but since this is a WP site, do you have a database export I could play with?  You could empty users if needed
<knome> frustratedtech, we don't have database exports, but the theme and plugins code is available from https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
<frustratedtech> k
<knome> though as i said, i think the best way would to be to discuss the changes first
<knome> frustratedtech, you around?
<frustratedtech> yes
<knome> frustratedtech, if you want to, i'd have time to go through any ideas and feedback on the website now :)
<knome> pleia2, will you set up the meeting minutes or should i?
<pleia2> knome: if you could that would be great
<knome> pleia2, i'll do that right away! :)
<pleia2> <3
<frustratedtech> sounds good
<knome> minutes up, page updated
<knome> will go and read the log quickly too
<knome> frustratedtech, if i wasn't clear enough, just go ahead and shout your ideas out loud and i'll be here to discuss them ;)
<frustratedtech> Well, looking at the current site, the design looks good minus a few things.  
<frustratedtech> Obvious, need to update the screenshots.
<knome> sure
<frustratedtech> I believe the homepage should capture more attention though.  
<knome> the problem with the details in the design is that i haven't had as much time to work on it than i wanted
<knome> in what way?
<frustratedtech> I wouldn't mind seeing the screenshots larger and taking a more widescreen aspect ratio
<knome> if we make the screenshot larger, we will have more vertical space on the left column
<frustratedtech> i believe that would help to emphasize the OS and XFCE more.
<knome> and i'm not sure if that's a good idea
<knome> for the title text wrapping as well
<frustratedtech> you would have less
<knome> less horizontal, but more vertical
<frustratedtech> You can add 100px width or so to the current screen shot and it would fit nicely if the left column is made a tad smaller.  It would just wrap the text sooner
<knome> that's true
<knome> it's doable
<knome> (and we don't even need a code change for that, hurrah)
<knome> can you file a bug against the website for that?
<frustratedtech> there is currently 130px height of white space
<knome> depends on the screen resolution
<knome> or to be more exact, the window resolution
<frustratedtech> well, I can update the screenshots and do a widescreen version (like more people would see on their own device)
<knome> i have no objections, but i'd talk with pleia2 first about that.
<knome> i suppose it would make sense to make all the screenshots on the site widescreen then, and she just took a work item to get them updated
<frustratedtech> ah.  what would be the lowest resolution to design against?  1024?
<pleia2> I already have a bunch of screenshots made by someone, I need to review them
<knome> original resolution doesn't matter too much, but i'd say a 1024 original would be good
<knome> that's what we have now, and it scales relatively nicely
<Unit193> I have 1280*1024, but other uses 1024*768.
<frustratedtech> seems ubuntu.com is at 1024 so i guess it would be best to stick with what they have
<knome> pleia2, just fyi, if we're going to change the frontpage size, poke me before you upload the new photos. we don't want to recreate the thumbs, so the change should be done (just) before uploading
<pleia2> knome: wasn't planning on changing the frontpage size
<knome> pleia2, no, but you were planning to upload new shots
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> pleia2, so if we're going to make the frontpage size bigger, that needs to be done before upload (ideally)
<knome> because i'll just bump up that one image size then
<pleia2> I am being pulled in too many directions today :) I'll get the screenshots reviewd this weekend
<knome> pleia2, sure, no hurry. just poke me before you upload!
<knome> actually, hummm
<knome> nvm
<knome> meh, we need a css change for the frontpage stuff
<frustratedtech> I also think that the "take the feature tour" should be more emphasized 
<knome> frustratedtech, how does that look now?
<frustratedtech> the columns are left aligned. "In the blog, Further information, Get started".  Those should be centered.  Same with footer info.
<knome> i'm not sure i can completely agree
<knome> now that i think about it, i think the feature tour should be one of the "icons"
<knome> and the larger icons could be moved to the uppermost left column
<frustratedtech> seems the h1 text doesn't fit well like that
<frustratedtech> the h1 looks good at 170% with that width
<frustratedtech> once people get to the page they dont have a sense of direction
<frustratedtech> feature tour could use an icon.  I agree
<knome> that's true, but i suppose that problem is mostly due to the part under the introduction
<frustratedtech> with the h1 at 170%, that would leave perfect amount of room for icon based feature tour
<knome> i was thinking to move all the icons there
<frustratedtech> The get started icons?
<knome> yup.
<frustratedtech> i personally like where they are
<knome> they are the most clicked links on the site though
<frustratedtech> if moved it would look cluttered then you'd have to figure out what to replace the void with
<knome> sure. i have no problems coming with ideas for that though ;)
<frustratedtech> they are also the biggest and more pronounce links
<knome> the sizing could be reconsidered
<knome> maybe they could be a bit smaller too
<knome> if they are grouped together with the introduction text
<frustratedtech> If they were moved and inline it would look ok
<frustratedtech> would need to add some more white spacing around it
<knome> exactly
<frustratedtech> and to replace that area they moved from could be a link to a video
<knome> maybe
<frustratedtech> bug report asked for twitter feed
<knome> yeah, i reported that bug myself
<knome> that's up for consideration as well
<knome> as i said, there are things we can drop there
<knome> brb
<frustratedtech> i could create a psd and maybe show some examples of placement
<knome> that works, but please export to png/jpg and send to the list for comments :)
<knome> i'd definitely want to get the frontpage lifted once again
<knome> thanks for the help/input!
<knome> i'll go for a while longer, but i'll read all backlog when i come back if you want to throw around more ideas
<knome> ->
<frustratedtech> No problem.  I'm excited to see what happens here.  I'll probably provide a good selection of ideas in the jpg's
<bluesabre_> on the note of the site, the sidebar is a bit barren on the non-home pages
<frustratedtech> headers should be consistent.  they are all upper then lower except one "The Ubuntu Family".  So it's not consistent
<frustratedtech> the copyright needs to be 2013
<frustratedtech> the footer elements could be bigger to help fill the void on the right side
<frustratedtech> bluesabre, maybe on those pages put twitter feed?
<bluesabre_> yeah, or expand the "In the blog" and not use the combobox
<frustratedtech> Yes, it would look better expanded full width
<frustratedtech> but, then menu would have to be moved
<GridCube> knome, ping
<knome> ochosi, can you help me a bit
<knome> no need for a true -dev machine here
<knome> can you look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-testing
<knome> the work items are a mess
<knome> we should list things we need to test in the whiteboard
<knome> not the work items
<ochosi> in what respect are the workitems a mess?
<knome>  [mrpouit] Get the new display dialog to a PPA and tell testers to test it: TODO
<knome>  [xubuntu-team] Get gtk-theme-preferences in a PPA and get testers to test it: TODO
<knome> both of those have a single work item for "make it available"
<knome> and a shared one "organize testing"
<ochosi> actually the first part is done for both
<ochosi> they are available
<knome> ochosi, ...and we really should discuss it here ;)
<knome> yes, i know
<knome> that's the misleading part
<knome> was menulibre in a ppa?
<knome> yes
<knome> but no raring packages
<knome> bluesabre_, ^ 
<knome> is the parole version in raring current enough?
<knome> looks like it's 0.4.0-0ubuntu1
<ochosi> yeah, that's the newest parole-version
<knome> so one doesn't need to enable a ppa to test that?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> mr_pouit: is it enough to copy the binaries of xfce4-settings in the 4.12 ppa to R for testing or does it have to be rebuilt/repackaged?
<ochosi> knome: i was thinking about re-designing the lightdm-greeter layout a bit today
<mr_pouit> it should be enough, I don't think there has been any major transition
<ochosi> oha, the man is here! :)
<mr_pouit> but imho, testing on any release is fine (precise/quantal)
<ochosi> yeah, shouldnt make a big diff
<ochosi> btw, should we do a release of the hotplugging support or was there something you and bluesabre_ were talking about that you wanted to figure out?
<ochosi> (i didn't read all the backlog, but it was something about when to save settings)
<mr_pouit> yeah, I disagreed with the latest commit ;>
<knome> what about catdish?
<knome> catfish too
<knome> was it in a ppa for raring?
<knome> or uploaded :P
<mr_pouit> there's the same version in quantal and raring
<mr_pouit> I'm not aware of any new release :P
<knome> so is it the one we want tested?
<knome> bluesabre_, ochosi ?
<ochosi> i think bluesabre_'s rewrite isn't ready for testing yet (not released)
<ochosi> so yeah, that's what we want tested for now i guess
<ochosi> mr_pouit: meh, it seems i don't have any rights in the xubuntu-dev ppa, could you copy the settings for R?
<mr_pouit> right, you're not in ~xubuntu-dev :P
<ochosi> awwwh :)
<ochosi> well i guess there's a good reason i'm not! :D
<mr_pouit> huhu, I made the copy
<ochosi> ty
<mr_pouit> (no idea how much time it takes to show up)
<ochosi> shouldn't take too long
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i'm working on a quick wireframe for lightdm btw
<ochosi> mr_pouit: http://imagebin.org/244103
<ochosi> knome: ^
<bluesabre> catdish, not ready yet (it was a secret)
<bluesabre> the new catfish is not ready yet either
<knome> boo
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> ochosi, right.
<knome> ochosi, i suppose that works for me
<ochosi> knome: i'm wondering whether we should get rid of the "box" around the login and just throw the widgets on the backdrop
<ochosi> knome: one idea is to make the shutdown more prominent, i realized that some of my friends had to search for it when first landing on the login screen
<ochosi> (ideally i'd prefer to get rid of the cancel-button, but it's needed in certain cases :( )
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre_: log in to http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/
<ochosi> bluesabre: shall i copy the packages for menulibre to R or will you do that anyway?
<bluesabre> I'll add raring to the ppa
<ochosi> ok cool
<ochosi> copying the packages should suffice i think
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre_: then see: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/249/builds/27871/testcases
<bluesabre> when I finish this and some other updates, I'll try to convince mr_pouit to upload it the the actual ubuntu repos
<ochosi> knome: why log in?
<knome> ochosi, oh, if you don't need to log in... great :)
<bluesabre> dvds will fail, since libdvdcss2 is not in normal repos
<ochosi> true
<ochosi> that sucks though
<knome> bluesabre_, do you think it would make sense to get you rights to edit those testcases too, in this sandbox and iso.qa. too?
<bluesabre> and I don't know if the codec-installer will install that either
<knome> bluesabre_, or, would you use that ability :P
<bluesabre> knome, sure, sounds good to me
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think there's a script that's in a package that'll install libdvdcss
<knome> ok, let me get that done
<bluesabre> I'll try to remember that I have rights
<ochosi> knome: stop pinging the wrong bluesabre_ ! ;)
<knome> hah!
<bluesabre> yay
<ochosi> bluesabre: say, do you see a realistic chance that the primary-branch can be fixed for nvidia so that it's mergeable or shall we simply strive for a new release of the settings to get hotplugging out?
<knome> bluesabre, done.
<knome> bluesabre, now log in
<knome> bluesabre, on the left hand side, click "administartion"
<knome> bluesabre, then on right top, click "testcases"
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'd say for now, probably revert my last commit and get the new release out
<knome> bluesabre, then find the correct testcase and from that row, click "edit"
<bluesabre> nvidia support can be a bug we attempt to fix later
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> bluesabre, let's try to get all testing we need in those testcases (new testcases are fine as well)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: do you agree with that? ^ (i mean: merge the ochosi/primary branch even though we know it's not working 100% for nvidia-proprietary?)
<knome> err, for what app?
<ochosi> are you asking me?
<knome> yes.
<ochosi> display-dialog
<knome> mmh, right
<ochosi> we wanna push a "primary" option for displays
<knome> what does "not working 100%" means ?
<knome> -s
<bluesabre> doesn't work with the nvidia experimental-304 driver all the way
<ochosi> well the RandR primary-property is working fine with intel (or: our code for it), but it seems that with nvidia (which just started to officially support randr) it's not always working bugfree
<bluesabre> which is experimental
<knome> what's not working?
<knome> do you mean it's not working at all times, or is something specific not working at all?
<ochosi> on the user-side: checking a checkbox
<knome> is it critical for the user?
<ochosi> as long as the xfce-desktop or panel don't support this property it won't have any effect anyway
<ochosi> no
<knome> eg. can somebody break his installation that way
<ochosi> it'll just mean the panel will probably remain where it is
<ochosi> no
<knome> right...
<knome> what's the point in introducing the feature if it's not working anyway?
<ochosi> it's a devel release, and nick wanted to have support in the dialog first and then implement it in panel and desktop
<knome> aha
<ochosi> he already agreed to implement it, so it should be fine
<knome> but does he need it in xubuntu?
<knome> isn't it supported already
<knome> (since the code is ready)
<ochosi> no, it's not supported
<ochosi> by panel and desktop i mean
<knome> yes.
<knome> then why should an option be included in the dialog?
<ochosi> but it will be for xfce4.12
<ochosi> and the dialog has xfce4.12 as target
<knome> yes, but can we include the option in the dialog when we have xfce 4.12 uploaded?
<knome> right.
<knome> will the dialog hit Q?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> well you can us it
<ochosi> use it
<ochosi> with the 4.12 ppa
<knome> will the feature be supported in R even if 4.12 isn't released?
<ochosi> it's really just a checkbox that won't do anything in the worst case
<ochosi> so nothing to worry about ;)
<knome> yes, but that's not optimal at all
<knome> i'd rather just comment the code if it's not supported by other components
<knome> then uncomment when it is
<knome> *in xubuntu*
<ochosi> we can always decide to do that, yeah
<knome> not in the general xfce development
<knome> or be ready to comment it if the support in panel/desktop doesn't arrive in thime
<knome> *time
<knome> that works for me as well
<knome> as long as we don't have something that doesn't work for anybody :P
<knome> so about dvd support
<knome> will all dvds fail without libdvdcss2 ?
<ochosi> i think many will fail
<knome> but by definition not all?
<ochosi> all those that are encrypted
<knome> eg. not those you mastered yourself
<ochosi> i would think those should work
<bluesabre> disney's hercules is oddly not encrypted
<ochosi> but i'm really no expert on this
<bluesabre> :)
 * ochosi hates dvds, it's a really bad medium, fails far too often
<bluesabre> yeah, only commercial dvds are copy-protected
<bluesabre> unless you are silly
<knome> and not even all those actually
<bluesabre> and most people are not _that_ silly
<knome> not all older dvds
<knome> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/249/builds/27871/testcases/1491/results
<knome> how does that look?
<bluesabre> perfect
<knome> please remember that these are instructions for *testers* not end-users :)
<ochosi> well, libdvdcss2 is not in the repos, or is it after all?
<knome> no.
<knome> not installable as a package
<knome> but that's not the point
<knome> the point is that with this note, people know dvds will not work without it
<knome> and send "failed" results
<ochosi> this might be the droid you're looking for: http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/libdvdread4
<knome> yes, that package has a script that installs libdvdcss2
<ochosi> iirc it pulls libdvdcss2 via a script
<knome> i don't think that's automatic though
<knome> at least it didn't use to be
<ochosi> can't remember now
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> it installs the script somewhere
<knome> in /usr/lib/doc/libdvdread... something
<ochosi> would be nice to be able to simplify that
<knome> well, it would be possible to have something ala the flashplugin-installer
<ochosi> but i guess there's no cross-distro way to do it, otherwise i'd have loved to see a helper in parole
<knome> not really.
<ochosi> actually some people complained that we implemented the gstreamer-internal codec-installer
<knome> hmm?
<knome> what's the problem in getting something done?
<ochosi> because it's not cross-distro enough or doesn't use packagekit, can't remember now
<bluesabre> basically
<knome> ha
<ochosi> i call that whining on a high level
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> i updated your blueprint again
<ochosi> g2g sleep now
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<ochosi> see y'all
<knome> night ochosi 
<knome> bluesabre, so, will you help me in getting all the thing to test in the testcasese?
<knome> -e
<bluesabre> If you don't mind it being done tomorrow, kinda busy atm (but work at work is slow still)
<knome> not at all
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-testing tries to list everything we need to test
<pleia2> oy, what are you doing to my inbox
<knome> haha
<knome> :)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> clicking around
<knome> i'm setting our blueprints to be "approved"
<knome> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-25
<bluesabre> ochosi: pushed my menulibre cleanup/speedup code if you want to play with it
<micahg> well, just uploaded SRUs for Bug #987578, that should fix a little annoyance for me and other precise Xubuntu users
<ubottu> bug 987578 in evince (Ubuntu Precise) "Evince is not allowed to use exo-open" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/987578
<ochosi> bluesabre: nice, will give it a shot!
<mr_pouit> micahg: if everything went fine, the xubuntu-artwork raring upload should give us some free space
<micahg> mr_pouit: we got 9MB back last night, I was wondering how that happened :)
<mr_pouit> that wasn't me, I just uploaded :P
<micahg> ah, ok
<micahg> well, it should be easy enough to get back to ISO size now then :)
<micahg> I see the .tar.gz if .5 MB less
<micahg> s/if/is/
<mr_pouit> the uncompressed size of the icon themes went from 31M to 12M iirc
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-26
<ochosi> maddernick: i added some padding to the spinner: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01262013-031301pm.php
<maddernick> ochosi: okay cool
<ochosi> also, at least in plymouth-x11 it's spinning too fast
<ochosi> i tuned that down a little
<ochosi> s/0.2/0.1/
<ochosi> not sure, maybe that's different when it's used nativel
<ochosi> y
<maddernick> i think its called 50 times per second
<ochosi> and i have to talk to knome about that, but i think a "path" for the circle-sector to move on would look nicer
<maddernick> path?
<ochosi> basically a semi-transparent circle
<ochosi> now it's rotating in thin air
<maddernick> ye
<ochosi> i guess for that to happen, the spinner would have to be larger
<ochosi> err
<ochosi> i mean: i have to take a look at the png first :)
<ochosi> something like this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01262013-032026pm.php
<ochosi> knome: ^
<souperk> hello..
<souperk> guys :( if someone can help me I will be glad
<souperk> i'm desperately trying to show all console messages at boot
<souperk> but I can't find a way :(
<souperk> i have edited grub file
<souperk> where i have the line: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
<souperk> i modified it with: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=
<souperk> but it doesnt work.
<souperk> then I modified it with GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet"
<souperk> and still no console messages at boot
<souperk> just the usual black screen before the desktop.
<souperk> so ... is there a way to show all console messages while xubuntu is booting up??
<souperk> and if yes.. how?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-01-27
<micahg> gah, ISO back to 6MB over today
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-20
<Noskcaj> bluesabre-laptop, IT WORKS! :)
<Noskcaj> Only issue is, the os.path.join fix wasn't complete. e.g. the .desktop says usr/binmenulibre
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: great, so my latest commit should fix that
<Noskcaj> Then we should be all good from the packaging side
<bluesabre-laptop> fantastic
<bluesabre-laptop> I'll do the release tonight and post a note about it here.  Thanks Noskcaj!
<Noskcaj> no problem. It's good to know 14.04 is pretty much where we need it to e
<Noskcaj> *be
<Noskcaj> As long as i can find a DD
<bluesabre-laptop> yeah, it does help that you are on the debian python apps team though
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: If you get a chance, can you pull the latest revision and see if building still works?  I think I've ironed out all the wrinkles now
<bluesabre-laptop> and I can set you up as an admin so that you can upload packaging to a menulibre ppa tomorrow
<bluesabre-laptop> heading to bed, night all!
<Unit193> Good night.
<Noskcaj> g'night bluesabre-laptop.
<Noskcaj> Testing now
<Noskcaj> Current issues: .pot is generated at each build, no manpage, README is nearly empty, usr/share/menulibre/media/ is empty
<Noskcaj> And there don't appear to be any tests or advanced doc (todo list rather than an immediate issue)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, you around?
<Noskcaj> the power manager systemd fix is now in -proposed
<knome>  
<knome> hmm..
<slickymaster> morning all
<bluesabre-laptop> is Noskcaj were here, I'd say "manpage added, readme fixed, empty media is cleared, but I'm not sure how to keep the .pot file from updating on each build"
<bluesabre-laptop> all thats left now is rearranging the menulibre launchpad page
<bluesabre-laptop> and figuring out what to do with all the old releases that were number year.month.revision
<slickymaster> hi bluesabre-laptop 
<bluesabre-laptop> hey slickymaster
<slickymaster> if you want to take a look at what I've done so far with the Mugshot docs: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs
<slickymaster> ping me if you notice something that isn't correct and/or needs to be changed
<bluesabre-laptop> looks great so far
<slickymaster> good :)
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: https://launchpad.net/menulibre/2.0
<bluesabre-laptop> knome ^
<bluesabre-laptop> I'll work with Noskcaj to get this into Debian/Ubuntu and a PPA for testing
<bluesabre-laptop> elfy ^
<bluesabre-laptop> :)
<bluesabre-laptop> slickymaster: if you're interested, we can start the docs for menulibre here: http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=menulibre-docs
<slickymaster> yeah, I saw it bluesabre-laptop. As soon as I'll finish Mugshot's I'll assign myself to it, if by then no one has started working on it
<bluesabre-laptop> slickymaster: thanks, I'll do it first if I can get these updates released :)
<elfy> bluesabre-laptop: thanks for letting me know :)
<slickymaster> elfy, you around?
<DanChapman> lderan, hey :-) how are you? would you be able to put each test into it's own MP it's easier to deal with that way ;-p
<lderan> sure DanChapman :)
<elfy> slickymaster: kind of 
<slickymaster> hey DanChapman 
<slickymaster> it's quick
<knome> autopilot testing, eh? how's that coming along?
<DanChapman> lderan, cheers mate
<DanChapman> hey slickymaster
<slickymaster> regarding 1256898
<slickymaster> regarding bug 1256898
<ubottu> bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256898
<slickymaster> I'm assuming we're talking about xfce4-session 4.10.1-3ubuntu2
<slickymaster> right?
<lderan> knome, getting started with the basic tests, some apps like Mines and gimp are not playing nicely sp trying to see what can be done with them
<lderan> s/sp/:P/
<knome> lderan, aha, can we use autopilot testing with the xfce componenets at some point?
<knome> -e
<lderan> we can do very minimal testing at the moment with the xfce stuff, pretty much to see if they open.
<knome> what does "at the moment" imply? their codebase needs to be changed before we can, or some other tools need to be written?
<DanChapman> knome, anything Gtk2 based is not possible to do anything more than simply check window loads/visible and window title
<knome> DanChapman, now that's stupid :P
<lderan> can't even see if the window title changes :(
<knome> bbl
<knome> (thanks for the quick update!)
<elfy> slickymaster: was that ^^ for me - if so it'll be whatever we are using, though I can't now even remember why we decided we needed it
<slickymaster> elfy: yeah, that was for you
<slickymaster> that's why I was pinging you
<elfy> yea - saw the ping and then nothing else :) 
<slickymaster> it seems to me that the existing test already covers what you wrote in the bug description
<slickymaster> elfy: ^^^
<elfy> I *think* I was thinking about suspend missing and the new lock business 
<slickymaster> hmm, I think it would be best just to add those to the existing testcase, don't you?
<elfy> not lock - ochosi wants light-locker testing 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<elfy> needs a conversation
<elfy> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> just returned
<ochosi> what's up?
<slickymaster> ochosi: my conversation with elfy ^^^
<ochosi> suspend + lock in what where?
<elfy> ochosi: it's all tied up with the discussion we need to have with knome 
<brainwash> ochosi: yay, now I can bother you with theme glitches again :D
<ochosi> aha
<slickymaster> elfy, ochosi, I think I'll postpone bug 1256898 until you both discuss it with knome 
<ubottu> bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256898
<elfy> slickymaster: yep that's fine
<slickymaster> in the meanwhile I'll continue to work on http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=menulibre-docs
<elfy> yep 
<ochosi> brainwash: haven't heard back from you about the powermenu patch in the greeter. however, i discussed this also briefly with bluesabre-laptop and knome and i think we'll just style the shutdown/reboot dialogs and add a notice that users are logged in
<slickymaster> bah, wrong link
<slickymaster> the correct one is http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs
<brainwash> ochosi: this patch is incomplete anyway, we need to check the permissions when the menu is actually opened
<ochosi> brainwash: no, we don't. those permissions are only checked system-wide by lightdm afaik so they'll always be the same
<ochosi> elfy: you still haven't told me what that "discussions with knome" will be really about :)
<elfy> ochosi: the lightlocker testing - and whether to have suspend in the same test
<brainwash> ochosi: remember the missing restart menu entry? the user session was still active for ~30sec after the user has already logged out
<brainwash> this is still true for hibernate
<ochosi> elfy: right, well there's only one aspect connecting light-locker with suspend, and that's to check whether the session is locked when you wake up the computer
<ochosi> brainwash: ok, but how is that related?
<brainwash> ochosi: it makes sense to check the permission to restart/shutdown/.. on the fly
<ochosi> not really, it'll still mean if you open the menu in the first 30secs those entries will be missing
<brainwash> yes, it's not perfect
<ochosi> no, it's an ugly ugly workaround
<ochosi> if it's only about hibernate, then it should get fixed the same way as reboot/shutdown got fixed imo
<elfy> ochosi: so it makes sense to have suspend in the same testcase to you?
<ochosi> elfy: what other testcases could/would it go in?
<elfy> exactly - it used to be in the old post install test - at the moment it's missing
<elfy> we don't actually have tests for any restart/power off afaik 
<elfy> suspend was the only one we tested iirc
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, different approach.. a local user logs out while a remote user is still active for 2min, after some more time the local user decides to shut down the pc
<ochosi> elfy: well the problem is that there are a gazillion reasons for suspend to fail
<ochosi> elfy: most of them light-locker unrelated...
<elfy> mmmm 
<brainwash> ochosi: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=732623#188
<ubottu> Debian bug 732623 in lightdm-gtk-greeter "missing hardware actions after first logout on systemd/logind systems" [Normal,Open]
<ochosi> brainwash: have you tested to shutdown from within the session while another user is still logged in?
<brainwash> ochosi: it preforms a shutdown?
<ochosi> brainwash: i don't know, it was a question
<brainwash> currently everything is possible, so shutdown
<ochosi> so why should the greeter prevent any of that then, e.g. by hiding the powermenu?
<brainwash> greeter != user session
<ochosi> no idea how that's an argument
<ochosi> anyhow, what's up with that debian bugreport
<brainwash> dunno, I think they want the dynamic check
<brainwash> patch also available
<brainwash> 07-run_time_power_menu.patch
<ochosi> yeah, but i thought we had just established that that's not really a fix
<brainwash> yes, not for this particular case
<brainwash> but what about my scenario with local + remote user?
<brainwash> basically multi user environments 
<ochosi> there are no remote sessions in xubuntu
<ochosi> s/xubuntu/gtk-greeter/
<ochosi> only unitygreeter handles that
<ochosi> and i'm not sure i understand what you were getting at with your scenario
<brainwash> ok, without proper case this seems to lead nowhere
<brainwash> please mark bug 1264838 as invalid or so
<ubottu> bug 1264838 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Debian) "hardware actions disabled after first logout" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1264838
<ochosi> ok, my point is: with physical access you can always shut down a computer, no matter whether a user is logged in or whatever
<ochosi> i can't, that's in debian
<ochosi> but feel free to comment on it
<brainwash> reported upstream
<brainwash> LP report
<knome> elfy, ochosi: you two are good to have the discussion, that's why ochosi/knome ;)
<elfy> ok - then we've had it then
<knome> okay
<knome> :)
<elfy> knome: so we're left with no suspend test :)
<knome> okay
<elfy> unless we do a whole power testcase I guess - or just add it back to the post install test
<knome> a whole power testcase sounds better to me than add it bak
<knome> +c
<knome> my c-key is still borked
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> I completely lost Q once
<elfy> then I couldn't change a password because it had q in it 
<knome> my problem seems to be quick, light taps
<elfy> mine ranged from those to thumping it with a mug ... 
<elfy> slickymaster: ^^
<brainwash> can the image highlight/dim effect be disabled for the xfce4-panel class only? https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/blob/master/gtk-3.0/gtk-widgets.css#L82
<knome> elfy, heh
<knome> bbl again ->
<slickymaster> elfy: hmm, so if I understand you guys correctly, the intention now is to make a Power test from scratch, right?
<ochosi> bbiab
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, can be done i guess
<slickymaster> elfy: if so, shouldn't bug 1256898 be closed as it has nothing to do with what is now intended?
<ubottu> bug 1256898 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Test Needed : xfce4 session handling" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1256898
<elfy> slickymaster: yea - was on my list - done now
<elfy> hi PaulW2U 
<PaulW2U> hi elfy
<slickymaster>  elfy ?! what is now done, closing the bug or the power testcase?
<elfy> slickymaster: bug
<slickymaster> elfy: ok. Are you going to open one for the power test?
<elfy> I am 
<slickymaster> ok
<elfy> bug 1270911
<ubottu> bug 1270911 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Xubuntu Power Controls" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270911
<elfy> slickymaster: not sure if you know - but I made you an admin on trello
<slickymaster> yeah, you already told me
<elfy> sigh ... 
<elfy> I need sleep
<slickymaster> I didn't remove that bug from Trello, because I assume you would do it
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> elfy: so if there's a separate power-test, put suspend there
<ochosi> but if not, you can always pin it on light-locker
<slickymaster> :) that makes two of us. Didn't sleep at all last night, due to a horrible, still afflicting, tooth ache 
<elfy> :| I feel that pain
<elfy> ochosi: yep - just did a bug for a new testcase to include suspend
<elfy> which is really what we need anyway - was just looking for a shortcut :)
<brainwash> ochosi: adding "-gtk-image-effect: none;" to .xfce4-panel .menu {} works fine here
<ochosi> elfy: ok, so i presume that's resolved? :)
<ochosi> brainwash: yup, wanna check how this affects other apps to see whether to disable it globally
<brainwash> ochosi: the ubuntu themes don't use these effects at all, how can it be even checked?
<elfy> ochosi: yep - always good for it to be a simple thing to deal with
<ochosi> brainwash: you can use other gtk3 apps (like gedit or whatever uses a menu) and see whether it's there too
<ochosi> and annoyingly so
<brainwash> ochosi: do gtk2 apps use this effect?
<ochosi> they can't
<brainwash> oh
<ochosi> unless someone writes an engine that does that effect
<brainwash> the toolbar icons in gedit get highlighted slightly
<brainwash> but not the icons in the menus
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> cause they should be in a way
<brainwash> or the change is so minimal
<ochosi> or otherwise the menu in the indicators is some inheritance problem
<brainwash> not noticeable at all
<ochosi> so maybe an inheritance from buttons
<brainwash> ochosi: the indicators menu work properly the first time you open it, but on the second time the highlight glitch occurs
<ochosi> never happens on saucy, is all i can tell
<brainwash> when you move the cursor between menu and indicator button in the panel
<brainwash> you saw my screencast
<ochosi> yeah, i saw your screencase
<brainwash> cast
<ochosi> i can't reproduce it though
<brainwash> trusty only maybe
<slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: regarding http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs:installation-preferences#preferences I don't see much material to work on doc wise speaking.
<brainwash> gtk 3.10
<brainwash> do we have anyone here who runs trusty + gtk3 indicator stack?
<slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: What I mean is you just install it and there's no specifics configurations you have to make, other than start using it. What do you think? I could probably be seeing it wrongly
<slickymaster> Anyway gotta go now. bbl after dinner
<ochosi> brainwash: i will by the end of the week, so no rush with this
<sergio-br2> hello
<ochosi> hey
<Noskcaj> The systemd power manager fix and the light locker xflock4 fix should both in in -proposed now
<ochosi> Noskcaj: awesome work!
<Noskcaj> and bug 1246364 is semi-invalid now
<ubottu> bug 1246364 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "update-notifier does not show a tray icon in xubuntu 13.10" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1246364
<brainwash> power-manager is already in trusty, not trusty-proposed
<Noskcaj> yay
<brainwash> so, now SRU for saucy :)
<brainwash> ochosi: looks like we got an ugly issue in xfce, the session won't kill gpg-agent on logout and thus prevent logind from closing the session
<brainwash> ochosi: here another scenario: user closes the graphical session and returns to the greeter, then he closes the console session (tty1), so no more user sessions are running, but the greeter will still hide the hibernate menu entry
<brainwash> no hibernate for us ubuntu users, but other distros allow the user to hibernate without manually editing configs
<brainwash> just in case you won't accept my "hibernate" scenario :)
<brainwash> on top of that, the system maintainer is free to change the policykit rules for logind, so every power action could be affected
<brainwash> Noskcaj: just wondering, light-locker is the 3rd option in xflock4, so xflock4 will first try to run xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver
<brainwash> is that intended?
<bluesabre-laptop> slickymaster: yeah, there are no preferences in mugshot, it just works
<elfy> bluesabre-laptop: I always find that using tabcomplete makes me sure people are in the channel :p
<bluesabre-laptop> elfy: I just hope they review the #xubuntu-devel public logs when they're not around :)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<Noskcaj> brainwash, sort of, it's a temporary patch, although the order can be changed if it affects anything in a bad way
<elfy> Noskcaj: thanks by the way
<Noskcaj> no problem.
<Noskcaj> gthumb 3.3.1 and settings 4.11.1 should both be up soon too. 
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: good to hear
<Noskcaj> bluesabre-laptop, When you next have some time, could you try and merge lightdm-gtk-greeter from debian? It's a bit of a waste for us to be maintaining it separately
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: sure thing
<Noskcaj> Thanks. I'd do it, but i don't understand the package well enough.
<bluesabre-laptop> I'll take care of it
<bluesabre-laptop> and if you have some time, I just made you a member of ~menulibre-dev
<bluesabre-laptop> could you upload a trusty package for 2.0 to https://launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/devel
<Noskcaj> thanks. Should i wait for an official release or just go from the bzr branch?
<Noskcaj> And did you see my list of issues yesterday?
<bluesabre-laptop> I did a release a bit earlier today, I resolved all of the issues except the .pot updating on new builds
<bluesabre-laptop> https://launchpad.net/menulibre/2.0
<Noskcaj> ok. I have to go now, but is there an option  to disable the .pot thing i can use for debian?
<bluesabre-laptop> you're welcome to add a small quilt patch to remove the .pot file, or if you would recommend, I can remove it from the source package
<brainwash> Noskcaj: /close
<brainwash> woops, wrong channel
<brainwash> :)
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi, this elementary icons are like tango icons, or not fully?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre-laptop, Do you have any idea what dependancy i'm missing that causes http://paste.ubuntu.com/6788413/ ?
<Noskcaj> Debian finally has a new version of blueman, merging now
<ochosi> sergio-br2: yeah, they're a bit like a tango-refresh
<ochosi> but not following all the tango guidelines, e.g. the colorscheme isn't the same
<sergio-br2> ahhh ok
<sergio-br2> but the guideline for highlights in the edges is one thing true to elemetary?
<ochosi> brainwash: pushed your patch for the indicator-menus
<sergio-br2> but the guideline for highlights in the edges is one thing true to elemetary?
<sergio-br2> but the guideline for highlights in the edges is one thing true to elemetary?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: are you referring to a specific document with icon-guidelines or just an observation of the existing icons?
<sergio-br2> it's missing in package-x-generic
<sergio-br2> well, bot
<sergio-br2> both
<sergio-br2> is there a specific guideline for elementary?
<ochosi> i don't think that there are any written guidelines
<ochosi> the icons were originally just created by one person only
<ochosi> so no guidelines were necessary
<ochosi> and i think still most icons are done by DanRabbit
<ochosi> i submitted lots of icons in new sizes, but not that many new icons per se
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks
<ochosi> with respect to package-x-generic, that's true, but i'm not sure it'd really look nice there
<ochosi> brainwash: any other theme-glitches?
<brainwash> ah, speaking of icons.. I think we still need a high res icon for parole's about dialog
<ochosi> hmright
<ochosi> 128px?
<sergio-br2> ok
<brainwash> not sure, it's quite big
<ochosi> brainwash: can you send me another screenshto?
<ochosi> just to be sure...
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> ochosi: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/parole0.php
<brainwash> and here's a pic of the animated pending icon in the software center, notice the solid grey area, it disappears only when you hover over the button
<brainwash> http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/uscprogressbutton.php
<brainwash> same issue with unity's theme, but almost not noticeable because of the coloring
<brainwash> I'll try to fix that one, so don't bother :P
<ochosi> ok nice
<brainwash> ochosi: any thoughts on my hibernate menu entry scenario? ironically I've just encountered this situation
<ochosi> i think the problem is that that's qt and not sure how that's handled
<brainwash> no, gtk3
<ochosi> one thing at a time, still drawing the 128px icon
<brainwash> :)
<ochosi> are you sure it's not qt->gtk3?
<brainwash> ubuntu's software center?
<ochosi> yeah
<brainwash> it's python + gtk3
<ochosi> then they should stop using those fugly custom widgets
<brainwash> it's strange indeed, the animation is defined via a python function and some cairo magic is involved too I think
<brainwash> gtkparasite points to the animation function
<ochosi> i guess a regular gtkspinner didn't do it for them :/
<ochosi> the whole toolbar looks terrible imo
<brainwash> it's not that bad
<ochosi> i guess those icons are also hardcoded
<ochosi> it could be fixed by using more of the standard widgetry
<brainwash> yeah, the icons are provided by the usc package
<ochosi> but in a usc dir or in pixmaps or hicolor?
<brainwash> /usr/share/software-center/ui/gtk3/art/icons/pending.png
<ochosi> hmpf
<ochosi> yeah, so hardcoded it is
<ochosi> parole-appicon-patch pushed
<brainwash> wow, awesome
<ochosi> in case you can already test
<ochosi> i need to re-read your hibernate scenario again, there were too many other things happening in between
<ochosi> right, so what do you suggest? loading the menu "on the fly" is possible, but it won't really solve the problem
<brainwash> got another tiny theme annoyance, greeter this time.. if you move the cursor to the top right and click, it won't activate the power menu
<ochosi> we can just as well put an hourglass cursor there and a tooltip saying "wait for your power-actions to appear while your session finally is closign down"
<brainwash> yeah, maybe
<ochosi> hm, true, not sure where that 1px comes from
<brainwash> some recent change most likely :)
<ochosi> are you sure? i mean: did that ever work?
<brainwash> strange, got the 1px too in saucy
<brainwash> ah wait, using greybird git
<brainwash> my mind is now blown.. so it was always like this? 1 px border? :D
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> it's quite possible, i never tried that tbh
<ochosi> i don't see anything in the theme-code that would cause this
<brainwash> never mind then
<ochosi> must be something in the themecode though
<ochosi> doesn't happen with all themes, it seems
<brainwash> and regarding the power menu, would building it on-the-fly come with any drawbacks?
<ochosi> ok, locally fixed the top-corner-click problem
<ochosi> well more (useless) system calls, the menu popping up with a delay
<ochosi> i don't know what repercussions it would have, but as i said, it doesn't fix the issue as that isn't in the greeter
<ochosi> i guess it should be discussed in the bugreport anyways
<brainwash> lets focus on the greeter only
<brainwash> mmh, right
<ochosi> so basically the hibernate-issue that you have is also something that's only related to logind settings
<ochosi> or am i wrong?
<brainwash> very likely, not sure how it was handled before
<brainwash> ochosi: it's actually a two way issue, you boot the pc, switch to tty1 and login.. now you return back to greeter and the hibernate menu entry will be still visible
<brainwash> should be hidden now
<brainwash> but what should be done, if the power menu is keep opened while switching between tty1 and vt7? :D
<brainwash> kept opened
<brainwash> in this case policykit simply won't let you hibernate the system
<ochosi> i'm still reading this immensly long debian bugreport-discussion...
<brainwash> they mainly focus on the gpg-agent issue which keeps the logind session alive
<brainwash> pulseaudio does the same occasionally
<brainwash> but this does not really justify the proposed change
<brainwash> I don't mind delaying a final decision, maybe I'm just too exited about the release of trusty :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> do you have the link to the upstream logind policy change handy?
<ochosi> (or at least the downstream merge-request @launchpad)
<brainwash> the restart multi session one?
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> google is not very helpful
<brainwash> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/src/login/org.freedesktop.login1.policy.in?id=299404a19f26aa4f203042d8285ee0b7afa5bf40
<brainwash> the user is able to shutdown, reboot and suspend the system... but hibernate, no, that's evil :)
<ochosi> well why don't you report another bug against systemd's default policies then?
<brainwash> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70237
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 70237 in general "logind: Allow active session to hibernate while other sessions are active" [Normal,Resolved: wontfix]
<brainwash> won't fix :(
<Unit193> I love it, clearly these people have heard of VNC, RDP, and the like. :)
<ochosi> i really wonder why reboot is ok then
<Unit193> Because it doesn't bring up the last session?
<brainwash> or shutdown + suspend
<brainwash> initially: shutdown + suspend -> OK,  restart + hibernate -> NO
<brainwash> restart is OK now due to the change "forced" by us
<ochosi> Unit193: right, but from the greeter it doesn't, it just brings you back to the greeter
<ochosi> (or that's what it should do, anyhow i dont ever use hibernate so i wouldn't know)
<brainwash> but this isn't the point actually, the system admin can change this rules and disallow every power action when multiple sessions are active
<brainwash> they are just rules after all
<brainwash> but lets wait for more input
<brainwash> maybe ask robert
<ochosi> hm, not sure he has much to say on this
<ochosi> they use gnome-settings-daemon for all this
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-21
<brainwash> too bad
<brainwash> isn't he the original author of the greeter?
<ochosi> (this is as far as i know)
<ochosi> yeah, but he only authored it as a reference implementation
<ochosi> it was never meant to stick around for so long
<Noskcaj> bluesabre-laptop, Can you help me with an FTBFS?
<Noskcaj> in menulibre
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: what's up?
<Noskcaj> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6788413/
<brainwash> ochosi: that reminds me that we need to check how unity-greeter loads the gtk3 indicators now, lightdm-gtk-greeter isn't able to anymore
<Noskcaj> Current build-deps are debhelper, python3, distutils-extra, libgnome-menu-3-dev, python-gi-dev
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, we're about to do a dev-release of the greeter, so it could go in the next release. feel free to investigate how it's done, it's currently really low on my todo-list
<bluesabre-laptop> unicode will be the death of me
<Noskcaj> bluesabre-laptop, It only occurs in a clean schroot, so i'm having a lot of trouble debugging
<bluesabre-laptop> I have no idea what could be causing that
<ali1234> ochosi: currently there is no right way to do it, as with the desktop session itself
<ochosi> ali1234: what is that re: to? logind and the powermenu stuff in the greeter?
<bluesabre-laptop> probably indicators
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> :)
<bluesabre-laptop> but maybe not ;)
<ochosi> sorry, i was looking at the logind stuff here so i naturally associated the comment with what *i* was doing :>
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: building in saucy or trusty?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre-laptop, The .desktop should say encoding="UTF-8" i think
<Noskcaj> trusty pbuilder-dist
<Noskcaj> Just let me try a quick rules hack, might fix it
<bluesabre-laptop> ok
<brainwash> ali1234: but unity-greeter does it
<Noskcaj> That's fixed it.
<Noskcaj> one other thing, in the manpage, BUGS is meant to be where you file bugs
<ali1234> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-greeter-team/unity-greeter/trunk/revision/1014
<brainwash> ali1234: nice
<brainwash> so it should be fixable in gtk greeter too
<Unit193> bluesabre-laptop: Since you have a meta proposal already in, do you want to remove gnome-time-admin too or should I create another?
<bluesabre-laptop> Unit193: go ahead and create another if you don't mind
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: I got that idea from another package I saw, lol
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> Now we just need to find a DD, something that is nearly impossible.
<bluesabre-laptop> if the build works, would you mind pushing it to the PPA?
<bluesabre-laptop> ochosi and I can try to convince Corsac to help it along into debian
<Noskcaj> bluesabre-laptop, If you get a reply from corsac, you're doing better than me
<bluesabre-laptop> we've got some other projects that corsac is interested in, so it makes it easier to mention it
<Noskcaj> Just get corsac to sponsor gthumb (from collab-maint) and embed-plugin (pkg-xfce) too
<Noskcaj> Which of the two PPAs should it go in?
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: https://launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/devel
<bluesabre-laptop> Gotta run, bbl
<Noskcaj> stable?
<Noskcaj> uploading now
<bluesabre-laptop> yeah, stable has the wrong url name :)
<Noskcaj> ok, bye
<bluesabre-laptop> thanks Noskcaj, have a great evening!
<bluesabre-laptop> or morning
<bluesabre-laptop> wherever you are :)
<Noskcaj> still morning
<Noskcaj> :)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: looks like it worked, thanks!
<bluesabre> elfy, trusty packages are available at https://launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/+archive/devel
<bluesabre> everyone, please test ^!
<bluesabre> + forestpiskie
<bluesabre> I'll do a proper release announcement tonight/tomorrow
<pleia2> bah, still no alpha builds, I had hoped to get some testing in today before work again tomorrow
<Unit193> Could still do menulibre or if light-locker needs it, but aye.
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.7.1 released, https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/1.7/1.7.1
<bluesabre> will also do a proper release announcement of that soon
<bluesabre> heading to bed, be back tomorrow
<Unit193> 'Night.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, g-s-t is merged
<Unit193> micahg: Nothing urgent, but preferred before release: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-seeds/small-fixes/+merge/202401
<Noskcaj> Menulibre uploaded
<slickymaster> morning all
<Unit193> slickymaster: "This documentation provides documentation to the most common issues with Xubuntu, including:" seem like normal language to you?
<slickymaster> Unit193: well, no
<slickymaster> the anaphora used seems a little forced
<Unit193> 0,/documentation/s@documentation@document@ ?
<slickymaster> Unit193: ?!
<Unit193> Right, I shouldn't think in terms of sed.  This document provides documentation for the most common
<slickymaster> yes, but even linguistically I think that string/sentence could/should be improved
<knome> too many slashes, i'm off
<knome> bbl
<Unit193> Great, you broke knome.
<slickymaster> let's us hope he'll manage to glue himself
<slickymaster> bluesabre: yeah, I saw the logs and what you said, so I'll remove that item from the http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs:installation-preferences section
<slickymaster> bluesabre: on a completely different note, can you please provide a pt_PT pot file in https://translations.launchpad.net/menulibre/2.0 so it can be translatable into Portuguese? 
<ali1234> Unit193: "This document describes the most common issue with Xubuntu"
<Unit193> Quite so.
<Unit193> But to me that (and the orig) indicate it's workarounds and common problems, when it appears to be more generally a user guide. 
<ali1234> well i can't see the rest of the document in question...
<ali1234> fixing the grammar is one thing, but if it's just flat out wrong that's totally different
<slickymaster>  Unit193, ali1234, a possible solution could be "This documentation provides information to the most common issues with Xubuntu, including:"
<brainwash> ochosi: got a diff for the top panel 1px removal?
<Unit193> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1310/
<Unit193> What Alister said works.
<slickymaster> Unit193: I still think that that string should be reworded
<bluesabre> slickymaster: https://translations.launchpad.net/menulibre/2.0/+pots/menulibre/pt_PT/+translate
<bluesabre> :)
<slickymaster> bluesabre: thanks, I'll start working on that as soon as I'm able to
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> if you have any questions, let me know
<slickymaster> will do, thanks
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<ochosi> brainwash: in case you're using the light-lock branch of greybird, add "border-width: 0;" to #panel_window
<brainwash> ochosi: does not seem to work here
<brainwash> ochosi: setting pedding-right to 0 in .menubar removes the 1px
<brainwash> but breaks the layout
<brainwash> uhm, bug 1271169
<ubottu> bug 1271169 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) " Let Xubuntu users disable/enable hibernation from Xfce Power Manager" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271169
<micahg> Unit193: I'll review after alpha2
<jjfrv8> elfy, or anyone, is there an easy way to see the bugs that have previously been reported against the trusty iso's?
<jjfrv8> every time we get a new milestone, they seem to get cleared out
<jjfrv8> and you can't even see them if you go back to an archived version
<slickymaster> jjfrv8: see these: http://bit.ly/18o24DO and http://bit.ly/18bwkqM
<brainwash> jjfrv8: "Abiword top ruler hidden by gray area on first open"  it's now a white area on my system :)
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, thanks, but that list doesn't seem to be complete and it includes post-install stuff
<ochosi> brainwash: not sure you noticed, but i did include a patch in the 1.7.1 to query the policies for the powermenu on the fly...
<brainwash> the debian patch?
<brainwash> ah, very similar
<ochosi> no, that was silly
<ochosi> i rewrote it
<brainwash> awesome
<ochosi> well, we'll see what issues are left with that "solution"
<jjfrv8> brainwash, still gray on mine: http://imagebin.org/287977
<ochosi> what convinced me in the end was your scenario, where you'd leave the greeter open and go to a tty, e.g. VT1 and log in
<brainwash> :)
<ochosi> at least that should be handled now
<ochosi> some of the other problems might remain, but i mentioned them in the bugreport, so...
<brainwash> jjfrv8: so a recent greybird change turned the grey area into a white one
<ochosi> don't think there were any really relevant greybird changes
<ochosi> but then again, i have no clue what dark magic abiword uses for its UI
<ochosi> (and i don't want to know anymore, too many hours wasted on that already)
<brainwash> sadly it does not look there will a fix anytime soon
<ochosi> brainwash: wrt indicators, one reason why they're so low on my list is the fact that last time i tried them in the greeter, there were several issues, e.g. you could open gmusicbrowser via the sound-indicator or other gnome settings apps (if installed) from the datetime indicator etc.
<brainwash> this time it's a gtk 3.10 issue, not theme related
<brainwash> before one could fix that, he would need to study the code of unity-greeter
<ochosi> well again, i can tell you they have gnome-settings-daemon to handle most of what we lack
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> ochosi: what about the the 1px in the greeter top panel? any ideas why border-width does not do anything
<brainwash> well, I'll test greeter 1.7.1 in the meantime
<brainwash> ochosi: http://lpaste.net/98855 light-lock branch, this eliminates the 1px
<brainwash> not sure how to remove the copied properties and only set the padding one without breaking it
<brainwash> power menu fix works fine :)
<ochosi> brainwash: strange, my patch works here. i'll do this properly once i got trusty next week
<brainwash> ochosi: so trusty seems to break more things than expected
<ochosi> well, gtk3.10 was a late decision
<ochosi> so yeah, i'm not surprised there are issues we couldn't foresee
<ochosi> but this is a lot less worse than the theming issues we had in previous gtk3 upgrades
<ochosi> (sometimes meant that themes had to be rewritten, and with 5 of them, that's not too much fun)
<brainwash> ah right, do you keep track of the changes which maybe need to be applied to all shimmer themes?
<brainwash> like the sound menu play menu highlight
<ochosi> there aren't that many
<ochosi> but yeah, i *try* to
<brainwash> ok :)
<elfy> jjfrv8: not sure what's up with that bug list tbh - but I tend to look at the reports so have half an idea
<elfy> lp isn't very user friendly for searching 
<ochosi> i tend to use google as a wrapper
<ochosi> but that also doesn't always make it easy-peasy
<elfy> nope
<elfy> I find the best way to just keep reporting bugs - the people sorting it out must have some way of finding out
<elfy> /bad elfy
<ochosi> huhu
<jjfrv8> elfy, thanks. I did see that some previously reported bugs still show in the dailies, I didn't look there before. I just looked at alpha1.
<elfy> jjfrv8: I'm pretty sure that all the previous important bugs are still there - but not necessarily Xubuntu ones
<elfy> the only that's gone is our session one
<jjfrv8> my 386 test install in VBox did not restart at the 'press enter' prompt and I could have sworn I had seen a report of that before
<jjfrv8> but couldn't find it when I searched.
<elfy> jjfrv8: there is a BIG list - not launchpad but tracker
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/defects
<jjfrv8> ah, okay, I'll check that out.
<elfy> no gui for us to deal with users now then 
<elfy> knome: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1628/info
<elfy> which is a mandatory test - I've no partitions/no other internet/no usb's - do I then fail it ... 
<elfy> or bug 1271267
<ubottu> bug 1271267 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "1628 - Xubuntu Post Install testcase" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271267
<elfy> slickymaster: perhaps better in here 
<elfy> Other applications that retrieve user information from /etc/passwd will also be updated (including Abiword and Gnumeric)
<slickymaster> yes, that's referenced in the Face-Page
<slickymaster> elfy: were you asking?
<elfy> gissa chance - thinking on the fly :p
<elfy> perhaps "Other applications retrieving user information from /etc/passwd will be supported following future updates"
<slickymaster> elfy: good point
<elfy> Mugshot is a lightweight, easy-to-use user configuration utility.
<slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: ^^^ I do agree with elfy's suggestion. What do you think?
<elfy> does it need to be lightweight and easy to use - doesn't one sort of point to the other anyway?
<slickymaster> lol, that's why I've asked you
<slickymaster> you're native to the language
<elfy> sorry that - wasn't a question but a comment :p
<elfy> I'd do one or the other personally
<elfy> Mugshot is a lightweight (or (easy-to-use user)) configuration utility. 
<slickymaster> elfy: well, technically being lightweight refers to the fact that it isn't a heavy on the system application
<slickymaster> the easy-to-use, speaks for itself
<elfy> technically - but reading a manual wise - is it necessary is what I'm saying
<elfy> and should a user manual be concerned with how heavy something is on the system
<slickymaster> elfy: maybe I'm seeing it too much as a brochure
<elfy> :)
<slickymaster> even though that's just a sort of a introduction paragraph
<slickymaster> the manual per si is in the following links
<elfy> Mugshot is a lightweight user configuration utility.  Mugshot allows you to easily set profile image and user details for your user profile and any supported applications.
<slickymaster> elfy: I like it. If bluesabre-laptop won't object, I'll use your description instead of mine
<elfy> slickymaster: you only want me to look at the front page?
<slickymaster> no, by all means, browse the links
<elfy> okey doke
<slickymaster> only the http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs:usage isn't finished yet
<elfy> though I'm only reading - not physically checking
<slickymaster> well, I've checked the links, and they're all pointing to the right page
<elfy> that's a good start - I'm looking while sorting little one
<slickymaster> elfy: np. I also have to go now. will be back after dinner
<slickymaster> ->
<brainwash> ochosi: http://lpaste.net/98905 - clear message box after user selection change
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Menulibre is uploaded, is the license meant to be GPL3 or GPL3+ though?
<Noskcaj> ochosi, When do you think panel or the required garcon version will be out?
<ochosi> brainwash: looks sane, how do i reproduce the related bug?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: it's guesswork, i think nick is busy and consolidating all the panel-changes take time, i'm not sure. it could happen anytime (same as happened with the andrzejr/wrapper3 branch merge...)
<Noskcaj> ok
<ochosi> sorry i can't give you a more optimistic outlook
<ochosi> my approach would be: package a git-snapshot now and update it as soon as we get a release
<ochosi> we *need* this stuff in 14.04
<Noskcaj> ok.
<ochosi> we can update it in the backports, but not having it at all because there's no release reproduces the saucy problems
<Noskcaj> I'll prepare it today
<Noskcaj> Do we know of anyone with a xubuntu precise install? Needed for the xfce4-weather-plugin SRU to precise
<ochosi> hmp, sry, i'll only even get trusty in a week
<ochosi> no hdd-space to install precise (as ridiculous as that sounds)
<Noskcaj> ok
<ochosi> maybe that's ^ something we should use project funds for
<ochosi> get devs proper hardware...
<Noskcaj> I'd have a precise VM when the parts get un-lost
<Noskcaj> for now, we just need to prepare a big SRU call for testing when i finish a few others (power manager, other weather fixes)
<knome> SRU for 13.10
<knome> ?
<knome> oh, 12.04
<knome> the last SRU is on feb 6th though
<Noskcaj> knome, various releases
<knome> not sure 13.10 is worth it, people using it should upgrade to 14.04 at latest on july anyway
<slickymaster> night all
<ochosi> yeah, let's focus on 14.04
<ochosi> frankly, the fact that ali1234 resolved the most prominent 13.10 bug deserves lots of applaud (and more), but we should really look ahead now
<knome> (one of the benefits for the shorter support cycle for regular releases is not having to SRU loads of stuff)
<ochosi> (+1)
<Noskcaj> What's garcon need to make the gtk-doc documentation?
<ochosi> sry, neither a packing expert nor gtk-doc (in fact we're still having problems with that in parole...)
<Noskcaj> I guess garcon get's to miss it's gtk-doc till a full release. I think it's something from git
<brainwash> ochosi: simply login or unlock with an invalid password, the message box will appear "invalid blabla", now switch the user
<ochosi> brainwash: ok, will test, thanks
<ochosi> ok, i can confirm the bug
<brainwash> ochosi: switching the user should remove the message box, because the message was addressing the previous failed login
<brainwash> :)
<ochosi> yu
<ochosi> yup
<brainwash> ochosi: so what is the deal with the light-lock branch?
<ochosi> brainwash: it's a proposal by satya for a new greeter-theme for greybird
<brainwash> it looks fancy, elementary-os-ish
<ochosi> yeah, too much eOS
<ochosi> a bit rip-offy imo :)
<brainwash> the white login box looks more friendly than the current dark one
<brainwash> and I like the transparent top panel
<ochosi> yeah, i agree with that to some extent
<ochosi> knome thinks it breaks consistency with the rest of the desktop theme
<ochosi> i agree to some extent, i guess at least the logout dialog would have to be recolored
<brainwash> ah, I also removed the blue xubuntu background from the plymouth theme, now it's a black background + white logo
<brainwash> I like it, might look a bit like win xp
<bluesabre-laptop> elfy, slickymaster: works for me
<brainwash> but I support the idea of making the login/logout screen a bit more brighter
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: I suppose GPL-3 for now
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: I think gtk-doc-tools is all
<bluesabre-laptop> I got it to build once
<Noskcaj> ok
<bluesabre-laptop> http://docs.smdavis.us/garcon/
<Noskcaj> The docs work fine in full releases
<Noskcaj> just not the git snapshot
<bluesabre-laptop> ah
<Noskcaj> And i'll go change the debian/copyright now
<ochosi> brainwash: thanks for the patch, tested and pushed it
<Unit193> brainwash: For smooth transition, ochosi kindly updated the accountsservice patch in xfdesktop so that it'd only pull from the first desktop (the one xfdesktop will go to upon login.)
<ochosi> also, Noskcaj ^
<ochosi> you probably wanna update my previous patch with the additional line...
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/debian/saucy/xfdesktop4-data_4.11.2-2.1_all.deb - https://unit193.net/debian/saucy/xfdesktop4_4.11.2-2.1_amd64.deb or I can link to the dsc. :P
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Let me finish the power manager SRU paperwork and i'll do that
<Noskcaj> dsc please
<ochosi> sure, thanks Noskcaj!
<ochosi> Unit193: i presume you can link the dsc? :}
<Unit193> -2.1.dsc
<ochosi> cool ty
<knome> Unit193, that link to the dsc is not working for me
 * knome hides
<Unit193> knome: Klik faster!
 * Unit193 thinks ochosi doesn't know what to do with a dsc, so opens it in browser.
<ochosi> Unit193: yup, that's what i've set exo-open to do
<Unit193> ochosi: dget http://foo.bar/mekofoomfoomfally.dsc
<knome> back tomorrow ->
<brainwash> Unit193: sounds great, so now we only need a working patch for the theme issue
<brainwash> but that makes me wonder, why does xfsettingsd take so much time to be ready on session start?
<Noskcaj> bug 1222021 is now ready for an upload
<ubottu> bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu Saucy) "[SRU] xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1222021
<Noskcaj> *cough* micahg *cough*
<Unit193> knome: Did you see, or were you interested in the es xubuntu-docs strings that make index not validate?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-22
<ochosi> brainwash: just pushed a configurable screensaver-timeout... (default is 60secs now)
<Noskcaj> So what am i taking from Unit193's version? Just his new patch?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: i did a complete new patch, but the diff is just one line
<Noskcaj> ochosi, that's the accountsservice one?
<ochosi> yes
<Unit193> I said something to brain as he's interested in the transition thing. :P
<ochosi> it now checks only for the first workspace's wallpaper, not the most recently changed wallpaper
<ochosi> somehow it makes more sense like this, because workspace 1 is always shown on login
<ochosi> (unless you add some startup magic...)
<brainwash> so true
<Noskcaj> So I just copy all the patches from unit's version, refresh them, and done
<Unit193> ...Unless you're working on a different version, why would you refresh?
<Noskcaj> quilt likes to add a header that is rather useful
<Noskcaj> speaking of which, those patches should probably get DEP8  headers
<Unit193> I had to re-work the nautilus one too, things changed.  These have the DEP headers.
<Noskcaj> yep. your right
<Unit193> Okay...  I was starting to wonder if you were looking at some other source.
<Unit193> And what exactly is quilt mangleing?
<Noskcaj> probably some form of patch death
<Unit193> Check the changelog, I ignored it.  Also, I fixed a lintian warning about declaring what section more than once, not sure if it was xfwm or xfdesktop so you may want to re-add for a closer sync. :P
<Noskcaj> I only copied the patches across. I'd fix that lintian warning in debian, but it's tedious and doesn't damage anything.
<brainwash> ochosi: another useful addition, and with this amount of changes we surely need another release soon :)
<ochosi> yup, maybe
<ochosi> we'll see, i guess we need to check what's on the roadmap for 1.8
<brainwash> I see, "Improve keyboard-navigation"
<ochosi> we might wanna add more kb-shortcuts, like Alt+F4 at some point
<brainwash> useful, especially for people who dislike using the mouse
<brainwash> like me
 * Unit193 wonders if he should show xombrero to brainwash, decides not to and runs.
<brainwash> looks interesting
<Noskcaj> bluesabre-laptop, When do you think you'll get catfish's next release out?
<Noskcaj> The same with mugshot
<brainwash> ochosi: I might have found an explanation for our current abiword ruler problem
<brainwash> ochosi: the rulers are GtkDrawingAreas, setting the gobject property "double-buffered" to FALSE prevents the glitch
<bluesabre-laptop> Noskcaj: hopefully sometime this week for both, definitely at least one of them
<Noskcaj> awesome
<micahg> Noskcaj: you can't merge branches for stable releases unless it's into -proposed
<Noskcaj> micahg, ok. I wasn't really sure of the process. Hopefully whoever sponsors it will put the changes where they are meant to go
<micahg> Noskcaj: that diff is ridiculous in the MR, can you provide a debdiff pleasE?
<Noskcaj> I can't right now, but it was adding the two patches from debian and forcing xdt-autogen to run, just like in trusty
<micahg> there's a lot of noise from the .pc dir
<micahg> this is one reason I don't like bzr merges
<Noskcaj> That bit is very understandable
<Noskcaj> But could you please sponsor the xfce stuff anyway?
<micahg> Noskcaj: if http://paste.ubuntu.com/6795392/ applies, I'll sponsor it (well, without the noise for the 06_fix-suspend-auth-check.patch patch
<Noskcaj> :)
<micahg> Noskcaj: actually, the 06_add-shutdown-reboot-functionality-for-systemd.patch needs dep-3 headers
<micahg> Noskcaj: if you want to paste those somewhere or PM, I can add them and upload
<micahg> well, test building now
<Noskcaj> I don't know the history of the patch, other than it was from debian. I forget who did the rest of the work for this one
<micahg> svn blame?
<Unit193> Suse, wasn't it?
<Unit193> Or, bts.
<Noskcaj> Yeah, SUSE originally
<Noskcaj> so Origin: OpenSUSUE
<Noskcaj> Debian-Bug: #727605
<ubottu> bug 727605 in gnome-terminal (Ubuntu) "notinc sÃ³." [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/727605
<micahg> Bug-Debian I think is the proper notation
<Noskcaj> Yes, you're right
<Noskcaj> then Bug-Ubuntu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1222021
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1222021 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu Saucy) "[SRU] xfce4-power-manager does not inhibit systemd from handling buttons and lid events" [High,In progress]
<Noskcaj> I'm not sure what to put for description
<Noskcaj> And then that would be it
<Unit193> micahg: Indeed, not interested in doing merges because of bzr.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, there are other ways
<Noskcaj> micahg, When you've merged this, i'll propose a merge to trusty for bug 1067749 as an excuse to add the header there
<ubottu> bug 1067749 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Screen refuses to dim on battery" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1067749
<micahg> still waiting, going to sleep soon
<Noskcaj> for?
<micahg> dep3-headers
<Noskcaj> I though you where putting them in with what i'd already said, sorry.
<micahg> can you PM me the whole block
<micahg> please
<Noskcaj> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6795501/
<micahg> Noskcaj: what about the note here: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727605#10
<ubottu> Debian bug 727605 in xfce4-power-manager "Add support for systemd inhibit API" [Normal,Open]
<micahg> or did we lose upower in saucy
<micahg> I'm a little behind the times
<Noskcaj> micahg, I'm not 100% sure, but i think it's ok since we've tested this in trusty and saucy for quite a while with no issues
<Noskcaj> plus corsac added it to debian svn
<micahg> ok
<Unit193> upower is very much there.
<micahg> ok, maybe add test notes to make sure that use case gets tested
<Noskcaj> will do.
<Noskcaj> thanks micahg. 
<Noskcaj> Is there any chance your lack of time will be fixed soonish?
<micahg> probably going to be a bit more, I'll try to find some hours for sponsoring
<Noskcaj> :)
<Noskcaj> I apologizes in advance for my use of bzr for everything
<micahg> haha, not your fault, it's encouraged
<micahg> night all
<micahg> Noskcaj: thanks for the fix
<Noskcaj> g'night micahg
<Unit193> Mica: Thanks.
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<elfy> morning
<Noskcaj> Any chance of a call for testing soonish for power manager (saucy) and weather-plugin (precise)?
<Noskcaj> micah has sponsored power manager, and infinity has said he can sync weather-plugin if testers are ready
<elfy> do people still use saucy? 
<elfy> :p
<elfy> I'll fit it in - but if it's SRU stuff better to be done via LP bugs as is normal
<Noskcaj> elfy, it  has been
<ochosi> brainwash: have you reported that upstream already?
<slickymaster> morning all
<knome> ali1234, ?
<ali1234> hi
<knome> ali1234, do you have the script to download all original sized attachments from a ubuntu wiki page handy?
<ali1234> somewhere
<knome> ok, if you could dig it up, i would have a use for it...
<knome> (the same as the last time, picking up the wallpaper submissions)
<ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6796659/
<brainwash> ochosi: no, 1) no abiword bugtracker account and more importantly 2) I just observed it by experimenting with gtkparasite, so I would need to check the source and rebuild abiword
<brainwash> is the new xubuntu 14.04 default wallpaper already available? or some work in progress?
<knome> ali1234, ta
<slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: you around?
<slickymaster> knome: ping
<knome> slickymaster, dong
<slickymaster> knome: do you have mugshot on your system?
<knome> nope
<slickymaster> well, thing is that I'm not getting my digital camera to appear listed in mugshot upon clicking the image button
<slickymaster> any ideas?
<slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: ^^^
<bluesabre-laptop> slickymaster: install gstreamer1.0-tools
<bluesabre-laptop> I need to add that to recommends in my ppa
<slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: installing gstreamer1.o-tools didn't solve it
<bluesabre-laptop> maybe gstreamer1.0-x or gstreamer1.0-libav
<slickymaster> ok, going to try it
<slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: still no dice
<slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: any other options that cross your mind?
<knome> bbl
<bluesabre-laptop> slickymaster: here's what I have installed, http://dpaste.com/1564260/
<slickymaster> bluesabre-laptop: ok, I'll check if I have all those installed om my box
<bluesabre-laptop> Finally got this typed up: http://smdavis.us/2014/01/22/menulibre-2-0-released-trusty-ppa-available/
<bluesabre-laptop> gotta go to work, bbl
<hjbvjhbvjdsfsdfd> alpha 2 tomorrow?
<epll45831> what are the requirements for 14.04?
<slickymaster> epll45831: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#The_Target
<epll45831> thanks
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<elfy> 8 people reporting for alpha2
<elfy> no wonder why I get so fed up with wasting my time
<elfy> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1628change/+merge/202716
<brainwash> elfy: how are you wasting your time?
<elfy> 8 people? 
<elfy> we'd probably get that many if I didn't bother
<brainwash> I do lots of testing, but no iso testing
<elfy> I guess others do as well
<brainwash> right, and especially now we would need more test results
<brainwash> LTS
<elfy> I know 
<brainwash> elfy: you could announce the alpha 2 release in Ubuntu +1 (forum) and call for additional testers :)
<brainwash> too bad that the alpha release still does not contain some of the exiting new features to lure people to do some testing
<elfy> brainwash: that's ok up to the point gnome/lubuntu/kubuntu do the same :p
<elfy> yea - hopefully we'll have them all there for beta1, but who knows 
<elfy> any later than that and someone else can worry about testing
<elfy> brainwash: that said we get full marks :p "Testing still needs to start for Edubuntu and Ubuntu Kylin.  Full marks to Xubuntu and Ubuntu Gnome for getting theirs done."
<elfy> Noskcaj: hey - I ended up wandering off to work this morning and not talking to you further re for power manager (saucy) and weather-plugin (precise)
<Noskcaj> that's fine, i wasn't there either
<elfy> if they've been checked as part of the sru process - is there any need to do more?
<Noskcaj> for bug 1244629, we need people to check, since it will just be a sync. and for saucy people need to check upower still works fine
<ubottu> bug 1244629 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu Precise) "SRU xfce4-weather-plugin, currently showing 'No Data'" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1244629
<elfy> Noskcaj: make a call after tomorrow - there's nothing on our schedule between now and feb 6th
<Noskcaj> ok.If corsac is around soonish to sponsor 3.3.1, maybe a gthumb call too
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Do we want light locker 1.1 for trusty or stay at 1.0?
<elfy> ok - but come beginning of february there's going to be calls constantly for packages and images
<elfy> !team 
<ubottu> bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<elfy> ^^ that - so don't leave it too late 
<lderan> :P
<lderan> shall be doing some testing at about 9pm, possibly sooner
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy, waah?
<elfy> knome: pedal?
<knome> pinging people
<elfy> yea
<elfy> is there another way to tell people that they've not got long left
<knome> for what?
<knome> :P
<elfy> come beginning of february there's going to be calls constantly for packages and images
<knome> yep.
<elfy> but personally I'm coming around to the point of view that I could just send mails out go blah blah blah and it'd not make any difference at all to the result
<knome> i'm getting into the QA loop more and more
<knome> even mor hurdles are now overcome
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I'm not pointing fingers knome 
<knome> i am, me fingers point at me :P
<elfy> :)
<pleia2> I'm not getting on an airplane for 30 whole days, so I should have some time for testing
<pleia2> (and have pre-alpha images prepped for testing tonight, woo)
<knome> oh yay
<pleia2> I appreciate the reminder emails :)
<elfy> serious point - do you see any point in getting it rebuilt re "If any gtk using flavours want it in alpha 2 please let me or another archive admin" which refers to 
<elfy>                 https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260396
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1260396 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Ubiquity window spans width of screen" [High,Fix released]
<elfy> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260473
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1260473 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "The slide bar that allow to rezise the partition does not appear" [High,Fix released]
<elfy> personally I don't 
<pleia2> no
<knome> elfy, stgraber said it's stuck on a queue, so not worth it...
<pleia2> but hooray for it being fixed
<pleia2> just a note in release notes about it landing too late
<elfy> knome: ok
<knome> note about something we don't have?
 * knome doesn't understand
<knome> just don't mention it, if it hasn't landed and we didn't promise it to!
<pleia2> it makes the installer window look very wonky, people will notice :)
<elfy> pleia2: I also want to list those who tested like we did last time
<pleia2> elfy: yes!
 * elfy wanders off to mark alpha2 as released to catch out people who keep saying they'll test manana :p
<pleia2> too late to test?
<knome> pleia2, they want to release it some time after noon UTC today
<knome> err,
<knome> tomorrow
<elfy> today
<elfy> ?
<elfy> yea - tomorrow
<elfy> pleia2: no - it's not too late - I'll mark it tomorrow morning sometime around 0700UTC 
<pleia2> okie
<elfy> unless knome has a problem with that :p
<knome> not at all
<elfy> k
<pleia2> having more time to test would be good, I was all ready to test on monday!
<pleia2> was a bank holiday here, would have been great
<knome> elfy knows better what the situation re: being ready to release is anyway
<elfy> pleia2: all our's are done, testcase wise - but more eyes never hurts
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> unless they pop in in weird places, like ears :/
<elfy> "Full marks to Xubuntu and Ubuntu Gnome for getting theirs done." 
<elfy> is what we got :)
<pleia2> oh, eyes on ears, yes, that would be odd
<knome> marks, like the old finnish or danish marks? :P
<elfy> yep
<elfy> full marks in any currency you like :D
<knome> lol
<knome> you can only have full marks in mark-currencies!
 * knome stops being silly and goes help the wife in kitchenwork
<elfy> I got more than full marks in a maths exam - still no idea how they worked that out
<elfy> knome: when you get back ping me re that merge and bug 
<lderan> elfy, I got 100% in a negative marked exam once. Was tempted to ask if the machine they used to do the multiple choice test was broken :P
<elfy> :)
<knome> elfy, what merge and bug?
<elfy> https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1628change/+merge/202716
<elfy> or we should make that testcase optional http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1628/info
<elfy> or I'll be failing it close to each and everytime 
 * knome shrugs
<knome> what do you think?
<elfy> well ... all of the things we test then get tested elsewhere anyway for one
<elfy> but if we're going to test it then it shouldn't be failable just because of wording
<elfy> though each seperate thing says 'if ... '
<knome> yeaah...
<elfy> mmm
<knome> dunno, i can merge if you want
<elfy> I'd rather do that I think
<elfy> I know it's not much - but then I'm checking all of them as I go through them for things like that
<knome> elfy, done
<elfy> thanks knome :)
<knome> np
<GridCube> ok, some bugs, at least from my understanding, http://goput.it/122r.png <<< there is no default list of backgrounds available, it doesnt show the default background neither
<GridCube> on 1024x768 the sudoku screen doesnt show complete, its like its default is larger than 1024px wich makes no sense http://goput.it/v/sou4.png
<GridCube> and this might not be a bug, but why does pavucontrol has white parts? http://goput.it/bims.png
<elfy> white here
<elfy> GridCube: first one - you've got folder set to none - what happens if it's not 
<knome> last one looks like a theming bug
<GridCube> elfy, that lets me choose my default home folder or the images folder, either of which have no images on them
<elfy> perhaps it's a bug then :)
<GridCube> http://goput.it/70l4.png
<elfy> knome: and my final 'I'm not sure why we even' for today - live session "Use and execute the default applications found for the desktop enviroment being run"
<elfy> why?
<knome> GridCube, can you file a bug for that, against xfdesktop
<elfy> and why not "Use and execute the default applications found for the desktop enviroment being run" then report the results on the package tracker"
<GridCube> knome, kk
<knome> elfy, the point was to gather random/exploratory testing bugs rather than the same old package tests
<knome> elfy, so people can test random things, and if they appear in the ISO test... well, the bugs are at least filed
<knome> elfy, we should probably expect people find those with the package tests as well, but those can never cover 100%
<elfy> ok I can go with that - but that's a lot of default packages :p
<knome> well... again, the point is to not restrict people to do certain kid of testing
<knome> *kind
<elfy> ok - I'll go back into my box now :)
<knome> could be reworded to "do what you usually do", but otoh, that would again restrict people from thinking out of the box
<knome> if you get what i'm saying
<elfy> yea - better not to do that
<GridCube> knome, http://goput.it/hxv8.png
<knome> so yep, i think the current wording is fine until somebody comes up with a better wording :P
<GridCube> will do it manually from this other vm
<elfy> on the whole I'm quite relaxed about that now we've got packages going
<knome> GridCube, i think it's just xfdesktop
<knome> oh, hmm
<GridCube> that package doesnt exists
<knome> !info xfdesktop
<knome> !info xfdesktop4
<Unit193> xfdesktop4
<ubottu> Package xfdesktop does not exist in saucy
<ubottu> xfdesktop4 (source: xfdesktop4): xfce desktop background, icons and root menu manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.10.2-3ubuntu1 (saucy), package size 150 kB, installed size 500 kB
<knome> ok, weird..
<knome> oh, ah,
<elfy> did one of the 'ppa' things get in 
<knome> did you enable PPA's?
<knome> yeah, that's why it says so
<GridCube> me?
<knome> if it's not a PPA, something else might be going on
<knome> for now, i think you can still gather the data for the bug with ubuntu-bug
<knome> if not, just file one manually
<knome> that's a trivial thing; we need to set a sane default directory
<GridCube> i have not set any ppa its just a default installation
<GridCube> bug #1271713
<ubottu> bug 1271713 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "xubuntu 14.04 trusty thar desktop wallpapers selection shows empty" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271713
<elfy> GridCube: that's odd - works ok here for the live image
<GridCube> im using the i386 iso
<GridCube> if that means anything
<elfy> ok - not looked at those I'm afraid
<knome> can't think of any reason why the arch would matter
<GridCube> no idea
<elfy> then again why would ubuntu-bug xfdesktop4 work ok here for me 
<Noskcaj> elfy, perhaps the latest version you have is from the repos?
<elfy> Noskcaj: then why is the 32 bit image not using the latest 
<elfy> and why is it using one apparently from a ppa?
<Noskcaj> i've got no idea.
<elfy> that's 4 of us then :p
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> should i file a bug report about it
<GridCube> ?
<elfy> the ubuntu-bug thing?
<elfy> GridCube: ^^
<GridCube> yes
<elfy> you can - but it'll fester forever I'd guess
<elfy> I me too'd the desktop settings one
<GridCube> bug 1271720
<ubottu> bug 1271720 in gnome-sudoku (Ubuntu) "gnome sudoku default screen is larger than 1024px wide" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271720
<elfy> knome: I see what you mean by "reworded to "do what you usually do"" GridCube apparently plays games and fiddles with the wallpaper :p
<GridCube> P: i do that
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I'd be reporting that clementine doesn't install and play music :)
<elfy> me too'd the sudoku one as well :)
<elfy> can't horozontally resize it either
<elfy> GridCube: ^^
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> its stuck at more than 1024
<GridCube> i cant resize it even here in 13.04
<elfy> oh yea - read your bug properly now lol 
<elfy> that's really annoying for someone who uses it ... 
<GridCube> i would assume so
<GridCube> true is that 1024 screens are less usual nowdays, but still
<GridCube> it makes no sense why it would not resize if the sudoku itself resizes
<elfy> it works in Ubuntu 
<elfy> odd
<GridCube> it does?
<GridCube> D:
<elfy> yep - just asked balloons
<GridCube> thats relly weird
<elfy> yea
<brainwash> GridCube: did pavucontrol look different before? it looks just as it did always to me
<GridCube> brainwash, http://goput.it/kbe4.png
<brainwash> mmh, now I'm not sure anymore :D
<elfy> I looked at that in 64bit - was white - same as here on this machine
<elfy> wonder if there's something odd going on with 32bit then
<GridCube> it should not be white
<GridCube> it should look like that last screenshot
<elfy> well it's white here and on 64bit
<brainwash> GridCube: please open abiword, is the top ruler hidden behind a white area?
<GridCube> yes
<brainwash> elfy: there was some recent change which turned some grey theme elements white
<brainwash> same applies to abiword
<GridCube> i think i added that to the test report
<elfy> brainwash: in ppa or properly? 
<knome> elfy, heh :)
<knome> off, bbl
<elfy> cya tomorrow
<knome> you too
<GridCube> but is not white brainwash 
<GridCube> is grey http://goput.it/10h9.png
<elfy> GridCube: is pavu white in the a2 ?
<elfy> thought that's what you said earlier 
<GridCube> http://goput.it/str/bims.png
<GridCube> yes is white
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> so where's the grey one come from?
<elfy> I'm confused now :p
<brainwash> well, it's just a minor theme glitch
<brainwash> white pavucontrol doesn't even look bad, looks almost perfectly normal
<elfy> yep still needs reporting though - and GridCube has issues reporting with ubuntu-bug - it thinks he's got ppa's in the a2 live image
<GridCube> elfy, the grey is the way it used to look on 13.04
<elfy> which is weird as well 
<elfy> GridCube: I can't remember that far back :)
<GridCube> and everytime before that
<brainwash> run  apt-cache policy xfdesktop4
<elfy> the sudoku thing is weird too
<GridCube> brainwash, http://goput.it/7di8.png
<GridCube> but maybe its because that box doesnt have a conection to the outside of the internet
<GridCube> and can't download the apt lists
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> xubuntu doesnt let people set up proxies in easy ways
<brainwash> this would mean, that you cannot report anything via ubuntu-bug
<GridCube> true. but why would it say, http://goput.it/hxv8.png
<GridCube> it should says like "you are not connected to the internet" or something like that
<elfy>   Installed: 4.11.2-0ubuntu1
<elfy>   Candidate: 4.11.2-0ubuntu1
<elfy>   Version table:
<elfy>  *** 4.11.2-0ubuntu1 0
<elfy>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ trusty/universe amd64 Packages
<elfy>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
<elfy> oops
<GridCube> /exec -o
<elfy> is what I get in 64bit a2
<Unit193> GridCube: inxi -r  lists no ppas?
<brainwash> according to apt-cache it's listed a local package without repo source
<GridCube> Unit193, i can't install inxi with no internet
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> brainwash, then why i get that message then?
<brainwash> maybe yet another bug
<brainwash> I'm not familiar with ubuntu-bug
<elfy> GridCube: what's the md5sum of the image? should be cafd1e7ea0ea269e732ec9302f467ad0
<GridCube> how do i get that 
<elfy> md5sum /path/to/the/download I guess
<GridCube> mmm
<GridCube> cafd1e7ea0ea269e732ec9302f467ad0 
<GridCube> it looks the same
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> just thought I'd ask :)
<GridCube> :)
<Unit193> Noskcaj: ...Did you copy all patches?  Including wait-for-settings-manager.patch?  brainwash wanted me to add that to test something, which it didn't fix.  Might want to drop it.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, oh. I'll drop that one now
<Unit193> Unless he says otherwise, yeah.
<brainwash> mmh, right... eric did not respond yet with a new (working) patch
<brainwash> the current one is harmless, does basically nothing
<Unit193> Yep, else I would have reverted it.
<Unit193> brainwash: Do you think this fix will land in xfdesktop or another package?
<brainwash> in xfdesktop4
<elfy> back tomorrow
<brainwash> Noskcaj: is your xfce4-indicator-plugin package (PPA) built from git/master?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, no. 2.2.0
<brainwash> so we need to wait for a new release then, some issues have been fixed recently (occasionally missing indicator icons and widget management)
<Noskcaj> ok.
<Noskcaj> Still no news of a panel or garcon release either?
<Noskcaj> I can make a git snapshot if we really need it though
<brainwash> it would help testing the new stuff which will land eventually in trusty, but on the other hand.. we have almost no testers
<Noskcaj> I think i'll leave it for official releases from now, or patches. the ubuntu devs are worried about 4.11 being unstable, let alone git snapshots
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> but we will ship xfwm4 4.11 or?
<brainwash> 4.11 already includes the needed patches for bug 1232804
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Improve "login greeter -> desktop" transition in Xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<Noskcaj> brainwash, if possible
<Unit193> But no tabwin. :(
<Noskcaj> i've got the branch up, just need to bride someone with upload rights.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, is tabwin able to be put in a release soon, or a least one, stable, patch?
<brainwash> on top of that, the xfwm4 package requires to be build with MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP defined to actually enable the seamless transition
<brainwash> it's not build that way by default
<brainwash> and it's need to be tested of course, if it causes some unexpected trouble, we could disable it for the final release
<Noskcaj> brainwash, i'd rather not risk uploading stuff that might break, what could it break and what does it do normally?
<Unit193> Not sure if the issues I've had were with xfdesktop of xfwm, end up killing both.
<brainwash> currently it doesn't break anything
<brainwash> everything is patched to work properly
<brainwash> xfwm 4.11 + xfdesktop 4.11
<brainwash> basically we need it to tested by a large group of people :/
<Noskcaj> I'd like to wait for more 4.11 stuff to land first, just so we know if it alone has bugs
<brainwash> yes, but I'm afraid that a decision might get delayed until it's too late
<brainwash> ali1234: ^ any thoughts?
<Noskcaj> my suggestion is wait till early next month, since i should have upload rights then and we'll know if anything major has been broken
<brainwash> can you subscribe to the linked bug report please? :)
<brainwash> don't want to bother you with this over and over again, following the report should help instead
<brainwash> GridCube: pavucontrol is mainly white in saucy with greybird from git, you should target your report against shimmer-themes
<brainwash> but I assume that this is an intended change
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: thanks for the upload, looks like menulibre is in sid and trusty now :)
<xnox> pleia2: knome: it was not stuck on a queue at all. new ubiquity in release pocket for 4 hours now. SO if a respin is done, it will be picked up.
<xnox> not sure who / why unblocked it from -proposed.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-23
<bluesabre> does opening links from xfce4-terminal no longer work?
<bluesabre> sudo apt-get install conky
<bluesabre> woops
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> bored with looking at a2 so I marked it ready :p
<pleia2> yay
<elfy> 2 extra names on the list today it seems :)
<Noskcaj> Can someone explain what i have to do to fix http://paste.ubuntu.com/6800659/ ?
<Noskcaj>  The new release of light-locker doesn't have autogen.sh , then this error comes up when you remove autogen.sh from debian/rules
<elfy> pleia2 knome - I'll make a start on the a2 release announcement - then one of you two can make it friendlier
<ali1234> brainwash: Noskcaj i was thinking yesterday about making an autobuilder that just builds git snapshots of all xfce into debs
<ali1234> i have no idea how to do this however
<Noskcaj> ali1234, That is a good idea and really would be fairly simple after the initial creation
<Noskcaj> If you can get the scripting set up, i can do the packaging and PPA
<ali1234> well the thing is i don't know how to do packaging
<ali1234> so i don't know what the script needs to do
<ali1234> i want it to automate the packaging where possible
<Noskcaj> ali1234, It needs to make the tarball, copy the debian/ folder in and update the changelog.
<Noskcaj> Then run dput
<Noskcaj> Any failures i will see
<ali1234> i was going to have it just build locally
<Noskcaj> Please make this a thing, i think the xfce4.12 ppa is just from lionel uploading
<ali1234> launchpad has a delay of about 8 hours for me
<ali1234> if local build succeeds then it can be uploaded
<Noskcaj> locally would work, just s/dput/pbuilder
<Noskcaj> but that would need good hardware for no real benefit after the initial setup
<ali1234> not a problem, i've got a 8 core dedi just sitting around
<Noskcaj> ok then. Just let me make a paste of what you'de have to do
<Noskcaj> ali1234, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6801668/ is all you should have to do
<ali1234> why rm .git*?
<Noskcaj> Not really needed, just packaging good practices
<ali1234> git archive?
<Noskcaj> it's normally removed
<Unit193> pdebuild
<Noskcaj> you'd also need to add a bit to run quilt refresh
<ali1234> so where should i get the debian/ files from?
<elfy> knome pleia2 the a2 release announcement is ready for you to fiddle with
<elfy> morning ali1234 
<ali1234> morning
<ochosi> maybe from the existing debian packages, Unit193 ?
<ali1234> i can get them from eg svn://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce/desktop/trunk/xfce4-panel/
<ali1234> but this is supposed to be automatic
<ali1234> and chances are that the files will need to be modified at some point
<ochosi> yeah, but do you really need them refreshed all the time?
<ali1234> there is also git-buildpackage
<ali1234> but that seems to be backwards to what we need to do
<Unit193> Simple, drop the patches and have a changelog.in setup, getting the version from the actual package.
<ali1234> i don't understand
<Unit193> 4.11.0+git20131215.fa67b6a-1 (for a commit after 4.11.0 release)
<elfy> bluesabre: if we're going to use menulibre instead of alacarte - shouldn't people be able to right click on menu in panel and then properties to edit menu 
<elfy> just a thought
<bluesabre> elfy, yes, we'll need to provide a patch to make that happen
<elfy> ok - just looking at it now - was the first thing I found :p
<bluesabre> I installed whiskermenu from the repos last night, and it seemed to already be patched for menulibre
<bluesabre> but yeah, I'll try to get some patches in for that soon
<ochosi> bluesabre: it can be configured to use menulibre
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01232014-104319am.php
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, it seemed to be preconfigured to use menulibre when I installed it last night
 * bluesabre thought that was cool
<bluesabre> but the xfce-applications-menu also needs patching
<ochosi> yup, i guess so
<bluesabre> actually, whiskermenu has some pretty cool searching abilities now
<ochosi> making it an xfconf setting would make more sense than hardcoding
<ochosi> yeah, whiskermenu rocks..
<ochosi> we could add a file-search via catfish
<ochosi> i guess we should really follow up on getting that in now...
<ochosi> (that, and a gazillion other things that are to do for 14.04)
<elfy> lol
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: [ochosi] Patch indicator-power to open xfce4-powermanager-settings in the Xubuntu/Xfce session: DONE
<bluesabre> when did you do that? :)
<elfy> damn sneaky wot
<Unit193> ochosi: Take it it can't do an test `which xfce4-power-manager-settings` && xfce4-power-manager-settings  type thing?
<bluesabre> lightdm-gtk-greeter-1.7.1 source packages uploaded to the PPA, should see those packages soonish
<slickymaster> morning all
<elfy> workspace settings seems to be broken :(
<elfy> can someone confirm that workspace settings - changing the number of workspaces can't be changed numerically but arrow does work
<slickymaster> hey elfy. Morning
<slickymaster> and yes, I can confirm it
<elfy> bah 
<slickymaster> will you report it, or do you want me to?
<elfy> ochosi: do you know if not being able to change workspaces with a number key is a known change or a bug?
<elfy> slickymaster: I'll do it if it is
<slickymaster> okie dokie
<elfy> just running through settings testcases
<elfy> well I'd report the bug if I knew the package, thought it was xfwm4-workspace-settings
<elfy> s'pose it's just xfwm4
<elfy> done that now - can't find one at xfce for it 
<elfy> bug 1271883
<ubottu> bug 1271883 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Workspace Settings number keys do not work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271883
<elfy> slickymaster: if you want to confirm 
<slickymaster> elfy: done
<elfy> ta
<slickymaster> -> bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: i created (and linked) to my branch a while ago :) larsu merged it in yesterday
<ochosi> elfy: can you be a bit more specific on how i can reproduce the issue?
<elfy> trusty - run workspace settings - change the number of workspaces with keypad
<ochosi> without a modifier?
<ochosi> or with ctrl+alt
<ochosi> one possible issue: kb-shortcut-conflicts are currently not really checked
<elfy> ochosi: no idea about having to do any of that -previously if you wanted to change the number of workspaces you just did it 
<ochosi> cause the normal kb-shortcuts are in a separate dialog
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i misunderstood you
<elfy> no - I'm talking about setting the number of workspaces :)
<elfy> yep - see that - I just type slowly 
<ochosi> yeah, i see now what you mean
<ochosi> don't think that's a huge bummer, luckily
<ochosi> gotta check other spinbuttons
<elfy> agreed - just not right is all
<ochosi> hm, seems like it's restricted to that one
<ochosi> and in fact it makes some sense
<ochosi> if you type in "1000" by accident (instead of "10") that might take a while...
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> so it might be a feature, seems like a conscious restriction of input-methods
<elfy> well if it's conscious - then it's recent consciousness then 
<ochosi> cause there is no confirmation dialog, workspaces get created on the fly
<ochosi> yeah, possible
<ochosi> i've been using 4.11 for so long...
<elfy> lol
<elfy> issue I've got at the moment is it is either a bug with that - or the testcase needs to change to suit the new way :)
<elfy> anyway - I'll let you get on :)
<ochosi> i'd change the testcase, frankly :)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> I can change all of our testcases to match bugs if you want :D
<ali1234> 1. figure out how to reproduce bug on ubuntu-desktop
<ali1234> 2. submit testcase for ubuntu-desktop that trigger the bug
<ali1234> 3. report bug on iso tracker against ubuntu-desktop install iso, every day
<ochosi> elfy: btw, feel free to skim these logs for the change ;) http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/log/settings-dialogs/xfwm4-workspace-dialog.glade
<ochosi> or http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/log/settings-dialogs/workspace-settings.c
<elfy> you just want to keep me quiet ... 
<elfy> it won't work :p
<elfy> ali1234: wrong channel or just venting :)
<ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/xfce-autopackager/blob/master/bin/package
<bluesabre> release announcement for lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.7.1 http://smdavis.us/2014/01/23/lightdm-gtk-greeter-1-7-1-released/
<elfy> bluesabre: nice :)
<elfy> ochosi: not sure if this something to do with the ppa's I've got for shimmer - but changing mouse theme doesn't work here
<bluesabre> next up is working on mugshot
<elfy> :)
<brainwash> ochosi: can gtkbutton be used with a custom icon? still looking for a nice way to add the "lock" icon somewhere to the greeter screen
<brainwash> ochosi: and any thoughts regarding bug 1271717 ?
<ubottu> bug 1271717 in pavucontrol (Ubuntu) "pavucontrol theme incorrect on greybird" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271717
<brainwash> the background is white in saucy and trusty with greybird git, so it's intended or?
<brainwash> elfy: can you create an upstream report for the workspace counter please?
<brainwash> the input field is set to not be editable and removing this limitation does not seem to cause any drawbacks
<slickymaster> bluesabre: installed every each one of http://dpaste.com/1564260/ but still can't get the digital camera listed in mugshot upon clicking the image button
<slickymaster> brainwash: that's in a Saucy box if it matters at all
<slickymaster> ups, sorry brainwash that was meant for bluesabre, not for you :P
<brainwash> :(
<elfy> brainwash: doing that - but can't specify version of it to anything other than unspecified or 4.10.1- which it isn't because I've got the ppa one here
<elfy> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10644
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10644 in Settings "Number keys not working in Workspace settings" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> elfy: unspecified
<brainwash> the input field has been not editable since 4.8
<elfy> I guessed that :)
<brainwash> or even before
<elfy> really- was able to do it when we wrote the testcases
<brainwash> basically no one complained about it yet
<elfy> anyway - I added the xfce bug to the LP one
<brainwash> great :)
 * elfy does it for the karma :p
<elfy> #wasted - jackson's asleep :D
<brainwash> oh, but you could have added the version in your bug description
<brainwash> output of xfwm4 --version I think
<elfy> oh well - bet I can't edit it ... 
<brainwash> add a comment :P
<slickymaster> elfy: is it me or your https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfcesettings/+merge/202839 is a way of bending the testcase to fit a bug? :P
<slickymaster> elfy: is it me or your https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfcesettings/+merge/202839 is a way of bending the testcase to fit a bug? :P
<elfy> :p
<slickymaster> I'll take that as a yes ;)
<elfy> if it's not working - all we'll get is pointless fails now that it's reported on lp and upstream
<slickymaster> elfy: yeah, and I agree with your reasoning
<slickymaster> on a completely different note elfy, have you tried Mughshot already?
<elfy> yea - was looking at your problem with it :(
<elfy> I had to install the package blue mentioned - then it worked ok for me
<slickymaster> it's weird, I've installed all and still no dice but what's also odd is the fact that my digital camera isn't mounting in /media/<home>/ but in /run/user/1000/gvfs/
<slickymaster> don't know if it's related at all
<slickymaster> bluesabre: ^^^ do you think it could be related?
<elfy> gstreamer1.0-tools is definitely the only thing I installed 
<slickymaster> I'm going to try it on Alpha2 to see if I manage anything
<slickymaster> elfy: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfcesettings/+merge/202839 is approved and ready to be merged
<slickymaster> elfy: already updated Trello on this
<slickymaster> bluesabre: tried it with a different digital camera, now with a Sony DSC-P1 (before I was using a Canon Powershot A450) but still the same in mugshot it doesn't appear listed upon clicking the window button
<slickymaster> bluesabre: also, I've purged Mugshot and gstreamer1.0-* and reinstalled everything back, but with the same result
<slickymaster> gotta run now. bbl for the meeting 
<lderan> I wont be here for the meeting have to go for as few hours, but I have several autopilot tests to make merge requests for and I have found a few apps which don't work well with it so far (the mines game & gimp). back in a bit :)
<elfy> thanks lderan
<knome> elfy, i've looked at the release announcement, and i made some listings actual lists, but otherwise looks good to.
<knome> elfy, i shall add you to the team who has the powers to publish posts for xubuntu.org next
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> I thought you might fiddle with lists - but I'd got to a 'that'll have to do' point :p
<knome> elfy, done, you're now a member of ~xubuntu-website
<elfy> I saw :)
<knome> elfy, once you relogin to xubuntu.org, you should have more powers
<elfy> ok 
<knome> yep, lists are something we could've fixed after publishing etc.
<elfy> :)
<knome> also, as i haven't been around, don't know if it's ok to publish; asked for an ACK from riddell in -release as you probably noticed
<knome> be back for the meeting at latest ->
 * elfy hopes to be - late into the kitchen today ... 
<elfy> knome: I'd say yes - alright to publish as we're the only ones who haven't 
<knome> !team | meeting time in ~10 minutes! 
<ubottu> meeting time in ~10 minutes!: bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<ali1234> again? already?
<knome> ali1234, thursday, 19utc
<knome> ali1234, once per week
<ali1234> it seems like only a couple of days since the last one
<knome> lots of stuff on the agenda though
<knome> i need to get the last meeting minutes up :P
<ali1234> so this week i implemented present in xfwm
<ali1234> you can't even test this on ubuntu yet though. it needs bleeding edge everything
<knome> i'm sure you can, whether it's sensible is another thing ;)
<ali1234> well you'll have to install the full X11 stack from source
<knome> sure, but that's doable.. ;)=
<GridCube> I: i have to go now
<GridCube> my comment for the meeting is that we need to make the desktop of the week project work
<knome> GridCube, that should be directed to me
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<knome> GridCube, i'm basically waiting to get the new website stuff released, with that it should be SOOOOO much easier and smoother
<GridCube> alright, if you write me some comments i can uptade the project page with some information
<knome> GridCube, comments are basically the same as ever: make sure there are screenshots with proper licenses queued, and you have done your part
<GridCube> :) im making sure of thatn
<knome> GridCube, i will take care of setting up the system, and looking how we will handle the updates; and i will get back on the details for that once i know how we're going to set it up
<GridCube> also my question is how the community wallpaper pack is going? :D
<GridCube> alright
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> i have to go now, talk again in a few hours if the gods want to
<knome> for the record,
<knome> we're selecting the wallpapers to be included in the community wallpapers package on jan 29
<knome> ok, let's go
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan 23 19:00:26 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> ok, who's here for the meeting?
<elfy> o/ more or less
<jjfrv8> o/
<knome> (i'll go on with the bureaucracy while people get in)
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<slickymaster> o/ just arrived
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting 
<knome> #action ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status 
<meetingology> ACTION: ali1234 follows up on gtk3 indicator status
<knome> ali1234, ?
<ali1234> still on-going, but it's active (talked about it a bit yesterday)
<ali1234> the fixes will come as part of much larger changes
<knome> okay, any news? should we keep it carried on?
<ali1234> yes
<knome> okay, will do
<knome> #action knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to be in touch with people re Tech Lead position
<knome> TBD
<knome> #action knome to look into the graphics problem with bug 1207493 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to look into the graphics problem with bug 1207493
<knome> TBD
<ubottu> bug 1207493 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] Documentation does not match shipped system version (11.10 shipped with 12.04)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207493
<knome> #action     lderan to update list of apps we can work autopilot with 
<meetingology> ACTION: lderan to update list of apps we can work autopilot with
<knome> will carry on
<knome> #action ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back 
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up on xfce 4.12 release with nick and report back
<knome> carrying on
<knome> ok, rest are clear
<knome> or not appropriate any more
<knome> #subtopic Enabling more people to push to Xubuntu branches (separate branches team, or would -team do?) 
<knome> this is stupid, but,
<knome> carrying on
<knome> #subtopic Social media outlet interaction (see details on the marketing blueprint whiteboard) 
<knome> pleia2, around?
<knome> ...carrying on
<knome> #subtopic Status of Bluetooth in Xubuntu; what kind of testing we want to run, which software we want to use? 
<knome> Noskcaj, probably not going to get a good discussion about this, but didn't you work on some bluetooth stuff lately?
<knome> also, what are we using now and would it be a good pick for 14.04, or should we change?
<ali1234> it pretty much boils down to blueman (current) vs gnome-bluetooth and maybe indicator-bluetooth
<Noskcaj> knome, blueman is now active upstream, we have a new git snapshot
<knome> ali1234, do you have any preference?
<ali1234> no, they both work fine for me
<knome> i personally don't know enough to make any kind of decision
<slickymaster> never had any problems with blueman
<knome> i guess i could plug in my bluetooth dongle some day and look at a few things
<knome> can't remember what i've used before, but from my POV, the other option i've used was really complex and confusing, and the other one was really simple
<knome> so maybe it's a good starting point to evaluate if they differ on the complexity level
<knome> dunno, let's postpone this
<knome> #nick team
<elfy> would it be an idea to get in touch with those in team to find when they are about to get these issues dealt with?
<knome> #action team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters
<meetingology> ACTION: team members that are able to test/use bluetooth stuff, consider which software they would like to use, if it matters
<knome> that ^
<knome> #action knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to send an email to the mailing list re: bluetooth
<brainwash> ali1234: doesn't gnome-bluetooth require gnome-control-center?
<knome> and that ^
<ali1234> possibly
<elfy> knome: yea - but it's more than 1 thing we keep carrying forward 
<ali1234> i haven't really used it recently
<knome> doesn't time-admin pull that in anyway, or did we drop time-admin for that reason?
<brainwash> time-admin is gnome-system-tools
<knome> elfy, none of the rest are something we *need* to get rolling now :)
<brainwash> like users-admin
<knome> right
<ali1234> ubuntu uses gnome-bluetooth, so they'll have to fix that anyway
<Noskcaj> i droppedtime admin a few days ago
<knome> Noskcaj, is there a replacement?
<Noskcaj> it's all part of system-tools now
<brainwash> but it's still not maintained or?
<brainwash> only downstream
<knome> Noskcaj, if there isn't a replacement, please raise that issue up on the mailing list, so other developers can chime in and discuss what the right strategy to go forward is
<knome> #action Noskcaj to send an email to the mailing list re: time-admin and alternatives
<meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to send an email to the mailing list re: time-admin and alternatives
<Noskcaj> knome, all the same stuff is there, we just don't split the package anymore
<slickymaster> brainwash, apparently is Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo <jsogo@debian.org> who's maintaining it 
<brainwash> ^ same for users-admin
<knome> right...
<knome> right
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x162e450>
 * Noskcaj check's we're talking about the same thing
<elfy> so we've lost the GUI for both of these now?
<knome> Noskcaj, just to make sure i understood correctly: you dropped time-admin, which is part of gnome-system-tools now, but we're still shipping gnome-system-tools?
<Noskcaj> gnome-time-admin, gnome-network-admin are no longer split, still exist as part of system-tools though
<Noskcaj> knome, yeah
<knome> ok, thanks
<brainwash> lost is the wrong term, we are just looking for alternatives
<knome> elfy, we didn't.
<Noskcaj> the split was an ubuntu delta from way back that we didn't need anymore
<elfy> knome: well I'm confused 
<knome> elfy, the packages used to be separated
<knome> elfy, now they are merged in one big package, which we are shippinh
<knome> s/h/g/
<knome> elfy, so basically, we just dropped a mention to a package that doesn't exist any more
<elfy> yep - ok, I'm talking about what people use out there in the world - because user tool is missing from settings now
<knome> Noskcaj, ^
<elfy> and how do people deal with time
<Noskcaj> elfy, It should all still be there
<elfy> well it's not ;)
<Noskcaj> same files shipped, just not split into three things
<knome> #action elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to poke Noskcaj if time-admin and users-admin do not exist in the next daily
<Noskcaj> Then woops, blame pitti
<Unit193> elfy: dpkg -L gnome-system-tools | pastebinit
<knome> #action Noskcaj to fix up the mess if elfy pokes him
<meetingology> ACTION: Noskcaj to fix up the mess if elfy pokes him
<knome> are we happy?
<Noskcaj> sure
<elfy> yep
<knome> elfy? :)
<knome> good
<knome> #subtopic Discuss documentation translations 
<knome> postponing.
<knome> #topic Team updates
<elfy> Unit193: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6804506/
<knome> ok, please use #info and #action again
<knome> floor is yours
<elfy> #info Alpha2 report - 64bit - 19 tests - only real fail was autoresize, but that fix is released. 32bit - 26 tests - some more issues here, main issue was the autoresize one though.
<elfy> #info A2 contnued - 12 people tested this time AND reported, no idea how many tests were undertaken elsewhere
<elfy> #info package testing - last call was for xubuntu applications - we've had 16 reported results against those
<elfy> #info next package testing call will be for the settings manager in 2 weeks
<elfy> #info several a/pilot tests ready for merge requests
<elfy> #info finding some that don't work well - gimp (and the mines game)
<elfy> #info light-locker and mugshot are now available for us to deal with testing, -QA are looking at that now 
<knome> #info knome rescued some ISO's for old-releases archive
<elfy> #action ~QA to write tests for new packages, sync to tracker and call for testing
<meetingology> ACTION: ~QA to write tests for new packages, sync to tracker and call for testing
<Noskcaj> #info many more 4.11 parts now available
<Noskcaj> #info menulibre in official repos
<knome> great news
<Noskcaj> #info gthumb 3.3 is out, needs upload
<knome> thanks Noskcaj and bluesabre 
<knome> reminds me we should have the every-cycle discussion whether to drop gtuhmb or not
<slickymaster> #info there's an initial draft of the Mugshot documentation at http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=mugshot-docs
 * knome hides
<elfy> drop it
<elfy> no - keep it
<knome> elfy, agree, but it does handle digital cameras and ristretto doesn't :P
<elfy> :)
<Noskcaj> speeking of which, i need to add the gphoto dep
<jjfrv8> noskcaj, you wanted Precise testers for weather-plugin?
<elfy> and power manager - it's in hand
<Noskcaj> jjfrv8, yeah. I'm not sure if infinity moved it across yet, but i will need some
<Noskcaj> power-manager is saucy though
<knome> the precise point release is in what, one week?
<knome> that's close, so please get moving if you still need to prepare something for it
 * knome looks at himself with the docs SRU package
<jjfrv8> Noskcaj, I'll talk to you after the meeting about it
<knome> ...so, other updates?
<elfy> not from me - slickymaster anything I've forgotten?
<jjfrv8> not from me this week
<slickymaster> knome, about documentation, don't you think that we can reuse http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs
<knome> been a slower week for me too
<slickymaster> nopes, elfy. I think you've covered it all
<knome> slickymaster, if that's updated for the latest version, yes, definitely
<knome> #topic Announcements
<knome> #info Alpha 2 is released!
<slickymaster> yes, it is. jjfrv8 and I just finish it a few weeks ago
<knome> #info 12.04.4, the last point release for Precise, will be released on Feb 6
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<knome> i have one minor new item:
<knome> #subtopic Meeting structure
<knome> if there's no objections, i will change the meeting structure a bit;
<knome> first, go through the open action items, then updates, then announcements, and only after that any carried on or other agenda items
<knome> i expect objections to be raised in the next 10 seconds
<elfy> I
<elfy> have none
<knome> ok, bang
<knome> will change the meeting page accordingly when setting up the minutes ;)
<knome> #action knome to update the meeting page to incorporate the new structure (all longer agenda items at the end of the meeting) to the meetings page
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to update the meeting page to incorporate the new structure (all longer agenda items at the end of the meeting) to the meetings page
<knome> hmm
<knome> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x15affd0>
<knome> #action knome to update the meeting page to incorporate the new structure (all longer agenda items at the end of the meeting)
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to update the meeting page to incorporate the new structure (all longer agenda items at the end of the meeting)
<knome> better
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<knome> #info Next meeting Thu 30 Jan 19UTC
<knome> Unit193, you can update the calendar now ;)
<knome> humph, one more thing
<Unit193> Wilco.
<slickymaster> the band?
<knome> #action knome and Unit193 to prepare a mail for xubuntu-core reviewing and send it to the mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: knome and Unit193 to prepare a mail for xubuntu-core reviewing and send it to the mailing list
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan 23 19:28:56 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-23-19.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-01-23-19.00.html
<knome> thanks
<slickymaster> thanks knome 
<elfy> cheers knome 
<Unit193> http://goo.gl/M9Nz7E
<knome> am i hallucinating, or is the wiki faster today?
<elfy> well it won't be now :(
<Unit193> Noskcaj: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/3.0.0-3ubuntu1 it's clearly messed up.
<knome> lderan, one thing once you're back: can we get rid of the "action items" output in the wiki output (who needs that since there's action items per person anyway?)
<Noskcaj> Unit193, What part is messed up?
<Unit193> What part isn't?
<Unit193> dpkg-deb -c any file.
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<knome> bbl as well; the meeting minutes are up
<knome> hmm
<knome> let me move the page again to 2014 instead of 2013
<Unit193> 2014-01-20:20:36:47 < Unit193> Also, trying to make a pixmap package are we? .install file.
<ali1234> Noskcaj: this morning i hacked a little on an autopackager: https://github.com/ali1234/xfce-autopackager - it uses mr to manage repos, git archive to make an .orig.tar.gz... and currently that's all
<knome> ->
<jjfrv8> Noskcaj, I use Precise so I'd be willing to test the plugin if you promise not to break me :)
<Noskcaj> jjfrv8, All it does is un-break the plugin
<jjfrv8> ok, so you'll let me know if/when it's available?
<Noskcaj> ali1234, nice. Let me know when you need so debian/ folders to copy to stuff
<Noskcaj> jjfrv8, sometime today if i'm lucky
<ali1234> what i ideally need is a repo (any type) that has the debian folders
<ali1234> i will then automatically update that too
<ali1234> and if you need to hack the debian, just fork that repo
<Noskcaj> ok
<ali1234> can be one repo per package too, so we can get it right from the package repo, if such a thing exists
<ali1234> in fact that's easier
<ali1234> i notice when i apt-get source xfce4-panel, it tells me about some debian svn repo where "packaging is managed"
<Noskcaj> ali1234, That's the debian packaging repo. I'm guessing we just want to copy the packaging from launchpad
<Noskcaj> because from here, you really just need to add a list of packages to get and then add a few more commands
<ali1234> mr only knows how to clone and update repos
<ali1234> could probably teach it how to fetch source packages though
<ali1234> also, what about git-buildpackage?
<Noskcaj> git-buildpackage is unneeded since from here you just make a tarball of the current git repo
<Noskcaj> The extract that tarball elsewhere, copy the debian/ folder in, debuild, and upload
<ali1234> yeah, that's the current approach
<Noskcaj> My only question then, will it run daily, weekly, or with each new commit?
<ali1234> it will run as often as you want it to. if there's no new commits it will do nothing
<ali1234> (per package)
<Noskcaj> ok
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Does gnome-system-tools have a valid make install target?  You likely need to just override dh_auto_install with dh_auto_install --destdir=debian/gnome-system-tools/
<Noskcaj> Unit193, It should do. Isn't it usually debian/tmp/ the copy across with dh-install?
<Noskcaj> feel free to fix it yourself
<Unit193> auto_install uses the makefile to place the files, but doesn't work when there's more than one defined package (doesn't know which one you'd like it in), so you can just easily tell it.
<Noskcaj> light-locker is now in debian, i'll be able to merge 1.1 from there sometime tomorrow
<elfy> Noskcaj: when will the user and time issues get fixed?
<Noskcaj> elfy, When i understand what the issue and how to fix is, or when Unit193 fixes them
<elfy> mmk
<Unit193> Could just use dh_install.
<Unit193> Eww, cdbs.
<Noskcaj> yep
<Noskcaj> that's why i have no idea how to do anything
<Noskcaj> although what we have now should be the same as debian
<Unit193> No, there are transitional packages.
<Noskcaj> with that exception and all the ubuntu patch
<micahg> sorry, I missed the highilght
<Unit193> micahg: Hi.
<Unit193> ghlight.
<Noskcaj> hey micahg
<Noskcaj> Any chance you can look at gmusicbrowser in debian? It should be upload ready.
<Noskcaj> only panel remain for 4.11, and maybe an official garcon release
<Noskcaj> oh, and the xfce4-weather-plugin upload to precise. Which can't be synced from s-p-u and the bzr branch is broken
<lderan> knome, sure thing about the meeting actions :)
<pleia2> shared on g+ and twitter, confirmed rss picked up on facebook
<brainwash> sergio-br2: can you please file a report upstream for bug 1271861 ?
<ubottu> bug 1271861 in thunar (Ubuntu) ""Open with 'default app'" in right click context menu with wrong icon" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271861
<sergio-br2> in xfce? bugzilla right?
<brainwash> in case you really want this to be fixes
<sergio-br2> i can
<brainwash> yes
<sergio-br2> ok
<sergio-br2> minor issue
<sergio-br2> i do it tomorrow
<brainwash> according to google (picture search) it has been always like this, so the generic folder icon is not a recent regression
<brainwash> thanks
<micahg> Noskcaj: I can't upload to Debian
<Noskcaj> micahg, woops, forgot because you're in "uploaders" for the package
<micahg> that just means I'm supposed to help maintain it
<Noskcaj> i know
<Noskcaj> Are you able to sync from S-P-U to ubuntu or do you have to wait for it to be in stable?
<micahg> we probably shouldn'tbe syncing from s-p-u, what's the use case
<Noskcaj> xfce4-weather-plugin is completely broken in precise. We need this in precise by feb 6th
<Noskcaj> debian had the same issue and corsac fixed it fully
<micahg> same version?
<micahg> Noskcaj: you have a bug #?
<Noskcaj> bug 1244629
<ubottu> bug 1244629 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu Precise) "SRU xfce4-weather-plugin, currently showing 'No Data'" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1244629
<Noskcaj> stable and precise had -3, -4 wasn't a fully fix (only in stable), -5 is currently S-P-U
<micahg> yep, that should work
<micahg> does quantal on work?
<Noskcaj> yeah, fixed upstream in 0.8
<Noskcaj> quantal has bug 1164736 , but i'm not sure it's worth the SRU
<ubottu> bug 1164736 in xfce4-weather-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce4-weather-plugin version bump request" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164736
<micahg> 0.8.3 would be a backport, a cherry pick could be SRUd if someone wants
<micahg> Noskcaj: you want it sponsored in your name
<Noskcaj> micahg, I don't really care
<micahg> [17:34] -queuebot/#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: xfce4-weather-plugin (precise-proposed/universe) [0.7.4-3 => 0.7.4-5~ubuntu12.04.1] (ubuntustudio, xubuntu)
<Noskcaj> ty
<micahg> sure
<micahg> I like the easy ones :)
<Noskcaj> jjfrv8, If you're still around, would you mind testing this ^
<micahg> it needs to be approved first, I can upload to my PPA if you want something to test now
<Noskcaj> micahg, It's probably not worth the time to put it in a PPA. We are pretty sure it works, just need "official" proof
<micahg> Noskcaj: yeah, if you're subscribed to the bug you'll get an email when it's accepted
<slickymaster> cy tomorrow ->
<jjfrv8> Noskcaj, micahg, does it take a while to show up? I just enabled precise-proposed and don't see it showing up as an update.
<Noskcaj> jjfrv8, As micahg just said, it needs to be approved first (and build). Should be up by tomorrow
<jjfrv8> ok, will check back then. I have not been using it but tried it today. I can see that the search is broken.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-24
 * Noskcaj has decided to spend the day backporting stuff, has little else to do
<bluesabre> slickymaster: most digital cameras do not work as webcams
<bluesabre> see if it is recognized by cheese
<Noskcaj> Anyone want to confirm bug 1272123 ?
<ubottu> bug 1272123 in Precise Backports "Please backport gtk2-engines-xfce 3.0.0-1 (universe) from quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272123
<micahg> Noskcaj: you can do the tests as well
<Noskcaj> micahg, My pc isn't powerful enough to run a VM
<micahg> ok
<Noskcaj> Stupid fastway couriers
<bluesabre> micahg: are you still around?
<bluesabre> I have these three merge requests that have been ready for a little while, do you think you could merge these?
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/b2_fixes
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.trusty_add-light-locker
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/xubuntu-default-settings/keyboard-shortcuts
<bluesabre> the first may be a bit outdated, it was originally for 13.10
<Unit193> Still valid.
<bluesabre> if you need me to do anything to bring them up to speed, please let me know
<bluesabre> I'm about to go have dinner, but I'll be back in a bit
<micahg> bluesabre: yeah, I'm not sure I have time tonight, but will try to get to them soon
<bluesabre> thanks micahg
<bluesabre> btw, how are you doing, haven't seen you in a while :)
<micahg> overloaded
<Unit193> :/
<Unit193> All work?
<micahg> no
<Unit193> Anything we can help with then?
<micahg> nope, thanks anyways :0
<micahg> :)
<Unit193> I'm sure my submitting a proposal didn't help.  Sure.
<Unit193> While you're here, if you have a sec that is, can you voice your opinion on the meeting item of having more people able to commit to the branches?
<micahg> I think that's a good goal
<damiank> hi
<Unit193> damiank: Howdy.
<damiank> just fine, trying to download today daily iso
<damiank> but it seems my ISP dont want me to download it ;)
<Unit193> Hrm, what's the error/problem?
<damiank> im not sure, it wont start. But it worked 2 days ago. So probably its my ISP today
<damiank> i'll try tomorrow
<Unit193> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/trusty/alpha-2/trusty-desktop-amd64.iso ?
<Unit193> >140KB/s for me. :/
<damiank> yeah its my isp
<damiank> dont worry
<damiank> i'll try later or tomorrow
<damiank> the strange thing is that internet actually works
<damiank> just ubuntu.com seems to have stopped
<Unit193> Entirely?  Just slow here.
<damiank> no
<damiank> cdimage
<damiank> i have a daily downloaded on tuesday
<damiank> that worked great
<Unit193> Oh, so when you download it tomorrow, just use zsync and you're great.
<damiank> i'll test
<damiank> im testing on virtualbox under xubuntu 12.04 that i have on this pc
<damiank> deciding if updating or not ;)
<damiank> i guess its better to wait for final before using it outside of virtualbox
<Unit193> Depends, how critical is it?
<damiank> i work on this pc.. so may be a bit critical. Actually i do most of my work on gvim or st2 coding php, so if editor works not much problem.. but..
<Unit193> Well, several have been running with no issues.  Some polish isn't on, and not all packages we'll need have been uploaded, but still.
<damiank> well i have a very simple setup here
<damiank> just what came on the 12.04 cd and the editors
<damiank> so i dont care too much of packages, just that the xfce works and gvim works should be ok :)
<Unit193> Well if I were you then, I'd likely go for it. :P
<damiank> i tried on virtualbox and seems to work great
<damiank> but one thing is vb, and other the real thing with drivers like ralink cards, etc
<Unit193> Oh, something you *can* do to test it on your hardware (the lazy way) install grml-rescueboot from the repo and drop the iso in /boot/grml and update-grub.
<damiank> i'll test that this weekend
<damiank> hi brainwash
 * Unit193 likes apt-listchanges
 * Noskcaj does not
<Noskcaj> takes ages to download changelogs, then another button to hit on the daily upgrade
<damiank> i have to go bye!!
<Unit193> ...So don't install it? 0_o
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I uninstalled it, just saying i don't like it
<Unit193> Only time it's a "problem", is release upgrades, and a simple kill will fix any annoyance.
<ecomp97> Just started testing Alpha 2.  Looks nice so far.  With regards to  bug #1261203 (Abiword "missing" ruler), I notice that opening any dialog restores the top  ruler.
<ubottu> bug 1261203 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword top ruler hidden by gray area on first open" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261203
<ecomp97> However, any attempt at text entry results in the ruler vanishing once again.
<Unit193> ochosi: https://unit193.net/indicator-weirdness.png
<ecomp97> Abiword's about dialogue is also missing the abiword icon.  It just shows the placeholder black rectangle missing icon.
<ecomp97> Found strange behavior in Parole's volume slider.  If I drag the volume above the slider it will jump down and resume the increase from that point.
<Unit193> bluesabre: ^?
<Unit193> Might have a VM with parole.
<Unit193> ecomp97: Just jumps to the bottom for me.
<ecomp97> When it jumps for me, it will go the bottom or close to depending on the window size.  Starting a length equal to the slider's length from the window title it would then increase.
<ecomp97> I'll be sure to run Xubuntu through some more rigorous testing later.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, An email i just got that may interest you. http://paste.ubuntu.com/6807255/
<Noskcaj> menulibre related
<knome> elfy, 
<knome>  [knome] Follow up with elfy on the QA articles for Xubuntu.org: TODO
<knome> elfy, did you need anything more from me?
<knome> elfy, while you basically have the publishing rights now, i don't think it's bad idea ever to ask somebody else to proof-read
<knome> elfy, but other than that... i don't think there's much to follow up unless you had some questions
<slickymaster> morning all
<elfy> knome: no - no real questions - though I suspect you'll have seen that I POSTPONED it :)
<elfy> and yea - I'd get stuff proofread first regardless of being able to publish or not 
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> hey elfy, knome 
<slickymaster> good morning
<slickymaster> knome: following what I've asked you yesterday at the meeting, let me tell you that the http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfdesktop-docs documentation that jjfrv8 and I made for http://docs.xfce.org/ is up to date
<slickymaster> so I think it can be reused in Trusty
<slickymaster> bluesabre: you around?
<elfy> why did I say mugshot was ready for us to test yesterday :|
<elfy> sigh
<slickymaster> well, the stable PPA can be tested elfy 
<elfy> sorry - we're not doing real testing from ppa's - once it is properly released then we can call for it
<slickymaster> oh, did't realize you where talking abou -qa tes
<slickymaster> tests ^^
<elfy> yep
<elfy> hence the constant whine from me to not leave things too late :p
<brainwash> Unit193: indicator weirdness?
<brainwash> Unit193: the indicator area might turn transparent occasionally, if your panel is set to be 100% opaque
<brainwash> and it only seems to do it when used in trusty (gtk 3.10)
<elfy> slickymaster: same with the indicators - generally the new stuff isn't any worse than the new
<slickymaster> yeah, I know what you mean
<elfy> 12 weeks to release
<elfy> really needs to be there for the b1 release
<slickymaster> and counting... down
<elfy> anyway - I'm sure everyone's bored of me by now lol
<brainwash> the gtk3 indicator stuff gets constantly improved, but we got almost no tester/feedback for them
<elfy> I've fed back what I've seen 
<elfy> and if we wait for people to do that then we just as well take it off the roadmap
<brainwash> something like should be made available for a large group of testers
<elfy> everyone who get's testing calls - got the information about this
<brainwash> not everyone likes to install PPAs :)
<elfy> I know 
<brainwash> and apply some workarounds
<brainwash> it's still a mess
<elfy> and releasing 13.10 with a broken sound indicator wasn't ?
<brainwash> and semi broken power manager
<brainwash> but now we are talking about a LTS release
<brainwash> people believe that LTS means stable and almost bug free
<elfy> yep - anyway - I'm not going to have anything to do with them now till it's out of ppa's
<elfy> brainwash: well that's because people decided what LTS meant - instead of looking to see what it actually stands for
<brainwash> how could we speed up the progress of including them?
<elfy> no idea - not anything I can do - so I'll do as I said ^^
<brainwash> alright, I'll focus on other things in the meantime
<elfy> not that I'm blaming anyone of course - if we had hundreds of people doing things it would be a different kettle of fish :)
<brainwash> elfy: can you confirm bug 1272057 ?
<ubottu> bug 1272057 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop icon size is not explicitly defined" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272057
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: https://bugs.launchpad.net/menulibre/+bug/1271914
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1271914 in MenuLibre "Debian Sid Xfce - Menu not found, TypeError on set_select_function" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> elfy: this usually happens if you boot into live mode and open the desktop settings dialog to change some things
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: i think the wallpaper-vote-meeting will be hard to make for me, would you be fine with rescheduling that to next week? (any weekday apart from monday would work for me in the evenings, all days should be fine during the day)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: I've nearly finished the fix for that bug
<bluesabre> so there will be a 2.0.1 this weekend
<elfy> brainwash: does that occur with the a2 image?
<slickymaster> bluesabre: I'm now using a Creative webcam but I'm still getting stuck with the same issue in Mugshot
<bluesabre> slickymaster: does it work in cheese?
<brainwash> elfy: probably
<slickymaster> haven't tried it yet. Going to install it to check it out bluesabre 
<bluesabre> thanks slickymaster
<bluesabre> we're depending on gstreamer, which we all know is never perfect
<elfy> brainwash: confirmed and commented
<brainwash> elfy: thanks
<brainwash> elfy: I assume that 36px is the preferred size, 32 appears to be a bit too small + the icon labels get truncated even more
<elfy> welcome :)
<ochosi> brainwash: then why not bump it to 48px, which is again a "real" size?
<elfy> no idea - first thing I do is turn off everything that shows on the desktop :)
<ochosi> brainwash: ideally thunar-default-icon-size (iconview) == xfdesktop-default-icon-size
<brainwash> ochosi: 48 is huge, on top of that, xfdesktop4 4.11 has a problem with icon scaling
<brainwash> try changing the size from 32 -> 33
<ochosi> that's not xfdesktop's issue
<brainwash> ochosi: ok, so what is the desired desktop icon size then?
<ochosi> or: not strictly
<bluesabre> does the latest xfdesktop have the code merged from thunar, or is that still in a separate branch?
<ochosi> that's a problem with us having a png icon-theme
<ochosi> thunar offers fixed icon-sizes, so you can only set it to sizes which we have in our icon theme
<ochosi> being able to freely select the size has its problems
<ochosi> brainwash: so... keeping ^ in mind, either use 16,22,24,32,48 or 64
<ochosi> this is with 36, fwiw: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-01242014-120710pm.php
<brainwash> 32 too small, 48 too big :(
<ochosi> it's the same in thunar
<brainwash> yes, home + trash folder are set to 48px
<ochosi> no, those are png icons from our theme
<ochosi> the other two aren't from our theme
<ochosi> we don't ship a g+ icon
<ochosi> so it's set to "scalable"
<ochosi> ours aren't, so it just jumps to the next size
<brainwash> yes, exactly
<slickymaster> bluesabre: \o/ finally
<bluesabre> slickymaster: did cheese pull another required gstreamer depends?
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1271891
<ubottu> bug 1271891 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop icons does not fit well in xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271891
<slickymaster> bluesabre: lots of them 
<bluesabre> if you wouldn't mind, could you figure out what the magic combination of those happens to be?
<slickymaster> I will try it 
<ochosi> brainwash: feel free to add a comment explaining what happens, there is currently no sane way in which we can fix this (other than setting a sane default)
<bluesabre> thanks
<brainwash> ochosi: so we set the icon size to 32 by default then?
<brainwash> otherwise it will be 36 if it isn't defined anywhere and change to 32 after opening the desktop settings dialog
<elfy> bluesabre: I'll go look in my other proper install at mugshot - pretty sure I've not got a bunch of gstreamer stuff preinstalled there
<bluesabre> thanks elfy
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i think 32 is fine
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> but this limitation is so ugly
<brainwash> 32 or 48-ish
<bluesabre> good to know that the official python documentation for gtk3 is also wrong :/
<ochosi> brainwash: whining about it doesn't change it though
<brainwash> a bug report could
<ochosi> no, investigating a solution could
<brainwash> scaling of png icons?
<ochosi> i personally don't mind the size of desktop-icons, so i have practically 0 incentive to investigate this
<ochosi> you can try and look into gnome-icon-theme's index.theme, they set scaling boundaries for their icons. but iirc they're all svgs, so it probably won't help us
<ochosi> but yeah, having fixed sizes is one of the downsides (and upsides) of png
<brainwash> ok, but aren't all the icons originally saved as svgs?
<brainwash> and then exported
<slickymaster> bluesabre: the output of tail -150 /var/log/apt/term.log is available for you at http://paste.ubuntu.com/6807866/
<slickymaster> brainwash: bottom line is I reinstalled Mugshot, having previously installed gstreamer1.0-tools, and after mugshot installed cheese
<slickymaster> once again :P sorry brainwash was meant for bluesabre 
<brainwash> bl<tab>
<brainwash> :P
<elfy> ok - with -stable I got the trusty not working, with -daily I installed mugshot, no camera, installed gstreamer tools and it worked ok
 * slickymaster curses tab autocompletion
<elfy> that's with a logitech c270
<slickymaster> elfy: finally solved it
<elfy> cool
<slickymaster> elfy: with a Creative VF0050
<elfy> I had some MS thing a while back, should have known better ... 
<slickymaster> bluesabre: it would be great if you figure out what could be causing it in order to add same kind of warning to the documentation
<slickymaster> could have been ^^^
<bluesabre> slickymaster: I think tools was one of the first things I suggested, but I'll add that to recommends on the package
<slickymaster> bluesabre: anyway I think I should add a <note warning> in the documentation, what do you think?
<bluesabre> slickymaster: please do
<slickymaster> ok, thanks for the help
<knome> elfy, ok, good
<knome> slickymaster, ta
<knome> ochosi, works for me, but we'll have to wait for pleia2's ack
<brainwash> ochosi: I'll wait for more feedback regarding the default desktop icons size, 32px vs ~48px
<brainwash> thunar uses 48 and 32 appears so damn small
<brainwash> 3rd option is to set it 36 (initial icon size when the user boots into live mode or creates a new account)
<knome> where's skellat again
<elfy> knome: physically>
<elfy> ?
<knome> if you think that information helps me get ahold of him, yeah :P
<elfy> lol
<elfy> ohio :)
<elfy> apaprt from that I think he's got mad work issues
<bluesabre> knome: he's accessibile on g+
<bluesabre> but he's been traveling a lot it seems
<knome> would need him on irc, or bluesabre :P
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> need to look at the 12.04 docs sru packaging
<knome> something is broken
<bluesabre> ah
<knome> i'm just installing 12.04 to be able to poke at things
<ochosi> brainwash: no, 36 is not an option, cause as you've seen, some icons will be 48px anyway then
<knome> looks like some image files are missing, some aren't updated and for some reason, some css files are either not updated or can't be read or sth
<ochosi> knome: sure, thanks
<ochosi> brainwash: the real "bug" there atm is that the file-system icons don't exist in our icon-theme seemingly, and get inherited or something
<brainwash> ochosi: I understand, 36 -> no, 32 -> rather small, 48 ok?
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i guess the only problem you could have with 48 is that the grid is bigger than thunars
<ochosi> thuna's
<ochosi> thunar's
<ochosi> bbl
<brainwash> so lets wait for a final decision, maybe we can get some xfdesktop tweaks/changes beforehand
<knome> bluesabre, for some reason, sudo apt-get source xubuntu-docs gets me 11.10.0...
<bluesabre> weird
<bluesabre> apt-cache policy xubuntu-docs
<knome> installed: 12.04.0
<bluesabre> Unit193?
<knome> packages.ubuntu.com says 11.10.0
<knome> but it can't show from -proposed
<knome> maybe apt-get source can't get from proposed either
<knome> bah
<knome> i can confirm that i am using the 12.04.0 package though, since the startpage says 12.04
<knome> aha, manually adding sources for -proposed works
<knome> but with that, i can confirm the package is faulty
<bluesabre> send a msg to the ML pinging skellat, then I'll poke him on g+
<knome> bluesabre, what was your debdiff skill level again?
<knome> want to polish them?
<bluesabre> good enough, know what change I need to make?
<bluesabre> uh oh
<knome> hehe
<knome> debdiff for the docs
<bluesabre> wife awake, I might not be at this computer any longer in a few secs
<knome> lp:xubuntu-docs/precise is what we want
<knome> can diff against the 11.10.0 or 12.04.0 package
<bluesabre> probably
<knome> well i'm at this point:14:20  seb128: knome, ok, well, if you get a non buggy debdiff feel free to ping me and I can sponsor that one
<knome> so as soon as we have that...
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> I can definitely have that available by this evening
<knome> ok, ta
<knome> ping me if you need more information
<bluesabre> bug me when I show back up again later
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> i'll try to remember
<knome> i can also help test the package
<knome> i have a precise vbox
<knome> humpf, some of the branch isn't as expected
<knome> but that doesn't explain it all
<knome> *now* the branch is completely as it should
<jjfrv8> knome, I'll be back around 23UTC and will look at backlog. If you or bluesabre have got something to test, I can do that.
<pmjdebruijn> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel/commit/?id=e916c922ce3913712cd8a9b76ab037840b7f07f1 yay
<slickymaster> bluesabre: I'm getting a Segmentation fault when I choose the "Capture from camera..." in the photo menu option
<slickymaster> bluesabre: here's the debug: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6808994/
<slickymaster> do you want me to fil a bug?
<elfy> you really aren't having much luck with it at all :p
<slickymaster> elfy: I'm starting to pull my hair off 
<elfy> out
<elfy> unless you only have the one :p
<slickymaster> elfy: out. I still have plenty :P
<elfy> slickymaster: :)
<slickymaster> bbl ->
<pleia2> ochosi, knome - yeah, we can move it to whenever
<Migou> good evening everybody
<Noskcaj> hey Migou 
<Migou> I've just resized a partition to become beta-tester. well, now I'm reading elfy's last link. I connected in case I have questions.
<brainwash> beta isn't even out yet :)
<brainwash> currently at alpha 2
<Noskcaj> Migou, then ask.
<Migou> sorry, so alpha-tester :D
<Noskcaj> brainwash, As far as most people are concerned, the daily and the alpha are betas
<Noskcaj> just saying
<brainwash> Noskcaj: can I bother you again with bug 1232804 ?
<ubottu> bug 1232804 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Improve "login greeter -> desktop" transition in Xubuntu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1232804
<Noskcaj> brainwash, yeah. what is it?
<Noskcaj> remember i know essentially no C
<brainwash> the current problem is, that we don't have a PPA to test xfwm4 built with MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP
<brainwash> well, Unit193's PPA does, but it also enables tabwin
<Unit193> What's wrong with that? :P
<brainwash> no tabwin for trusty, right?
<Unit193> Sadly, looks not.
<brainwash> so we need a xfwm4 package which might eventually land in trusty
<brainwash> 4.11
<Unit193> Cakewalk, where you want it?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, since Unit193 has everything set up and know the patch, let him do the PPA
<brainwash> alright
<brainwash> some separate PPA then
<Unit193> Unless you want it in Ubuntu, then Noskcaj is the one. :P
<Noskcaj> And if it's actually a patch rather than a rules change, please remember the DEP3 header
<Migou> so I've got a problem. I followed elfy's mail pointing to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/310/builds. Then, il clicked "Xubuntu Desktopamd64 (ready) > Link to the download information"
<Unit193> brainwash: Yes, because I plan to keep tabwin. :P
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Always do...
<Noskcaj> :)
<brainwash> compile flag change
<brainwash> currently
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> Migou, continue
<Unit193> Yep, 4.11.0+tabwin.git20131215.fa67b6a-1~13.10 has it all.
<brainwash> -tabwin
<Migou> there (http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/310/builds/61654/downloads)... but nothing does download. neither through http or rsync 
<Unit193> brainwash: Yeah, not even a configure switch. :/
<Noskcaj> Migou, perhaps install the program testdrive-gtk , It let's you download and sync ISOs very easily
<Noskcaj> And it will run them in a VM or burn to usb for you
<brainwash> Unit193: we basically need something for testing, maybe it's ok if tabwin is also included
<Unit193> Migou: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/trusty/alpha-2/
<Unit193> brainwash: I'd hope so, but I can understand if not.  At the very least ochosi needs to re-sync with master so it'd be a newer version than in repo.
<Noskcaj> Migou, but Unit is right, the links sometime mess up around releases
<brainwash> Unit193: I'm just worried that we get almost no feedback for the seamless transition, this way it will be rather hard to actually include it for the final trusty release :/
<Unit193> Bah, I was updating an init script, wait a minute and I can get you something.
<brainwash> Unit193: can you please promote your xfwm4 package (PPA) and call for testers in the bug report?
<Unit193> Hmm, what?
<Noskcaj> make ppa, tell everyone about ppa, tell elfy to tell everyone
<brainwash> just mention that your xfwm4 package is already built with the needed flag
<brainwash> and is ready to test
<Noskcaj> and if anything goes wrong, blame brainwash ;)
<brainwash> or ali1234 
<brainwash> he did the coding :P
<brainwash> oh, trusty does not ship lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.7 yet, still at 1.6
<brainwash> 1.7 is a quite important release, especially the lock screen changes are
<brainwash> ochosi: ^ ?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, I think blue sabre was going to try and merge from debian. I don't know the package well enough to
<Noskcaj> and i'll merge light-locker as soon as it clears NEW
<brainwash> ok :)
<Unit193> brainwash: I liked the idea to blame you. :D  Also, current PPA xfwm is technically at a "lower version" than in repo, so would have to do some strange things to use it.  Doing a sync on the latest xfwm in Trusty then bumping version.  Rebuilding now, will upload once it clears.
<ali1234> tabwin applies on top of my commits
<ali1234> i run it all the time
<ali1234> i never use it tho
<Unit193> This won't have it.
<Unit193> brainwash: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce  As seen on TV!  Your very own seemless transition package, all for the low low price of just 3 payments of $19.99!  ;)
<brainwash> that's quite expensive for a grey flicker removal :P
<brainwash> thanks :)
<Unit193> You said advertise.. :P
<Unit193> forestpiskie: Hey, so with the seemless transition, we're going to want to make sure there's no regressions in https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/xfce then likely upload.
<Unit193> forestpiskie: You already have this PPA, so you'll just pick it up.
<Noskcaj> Still no ETA on garcon, indicator or panel releases?
<bluesabre> slickymaster: saucy or trusty?
<Migou> So thanks, tomorrow i'll try burning an usb key with testdrive. Chmok chmok. good night.
<Noskcaj> g'night Migou 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-25
<brainwash> andrzejr: got some new observations, the gtk3 indicator panel box turns transparent when another indicator is loaded later on
<brainwash> andrzejr: and this only happens if the panel is set to have no background style -> 'none (use system style)'
<brainwash> I cannot reproduce this glitch after defining a background color (panel settings)
<brainwash> I'm currently trying to understand the recent transparency fix for xfce4-panel and wrapper-plug.c in general
<Unit193> brainwash: Oh, in case you didn't notice, xfwm/xfdesktop built for Saucy and Trusty, no need to be on Trusty to test as long as you get a PPA for the greeter.
<elfy> Unit193: saw that - must have picked it up last night, if it's supposed to get rid of the grey then it's masquerading as something else here
<Unit193> elfy: Versions for xfdesktop4, xfwm, and lightdm-gtk-greeter?
<elfy> 4.11.2-2.1~14.04 and 4.11.1-1ubuntu2.1~14.04 and 201401231722~ubuntu14.04.1
<elfy> respectively
<Unit193> I'm calling dad on you...
<Unit193> brainwash: Hey, see anything amiss?
<Unit193> elfy: So that all looks good to me, I don't have daily gtk-greeter and I have my packages, but nevertheless...
<elfy> Unit193: so I guess it should be working with them then 
<Unit193> Well, what's the source of xfwm, just to double check?
<elfy> http://ppa.launchpad.net/unit193/xfce/ubuntu/
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you want me to try the greeter merge tomorrow or do you think you'll get to it soon?
<Noskcaj> (although i'll probably fail it)
<Unit193> elfy: And I'd presume you've restarted/restarted lightdm after getting the last of the packages?
<elfy> updated xfwm last night - so that was here when I booted, last update for xfdesktop4 was on the 19th and greeter was 24th
<Unit193> Noskcaj: You testing this?
<elfy> I was just looking at the when
<Unit193> Well then you should have had everything.
<elfy> mmm
<Noskcaj> Unit193, I don't have time tonight, might try tomorrow
<knome> bluesabre?
<Noskcaj> knome, Don't disturb him, he's busy coding. ;)
<Noskcaj> And probably will be for the next week
<knome> Noskcaj, umm, yes i will disturb him
 * Noskcaj really should go and do something else
<elfy> morning knome 
<knome> hello elfy 
<bluesabre> knome, Noskcaj: or sleeping
<knome> bluesabre, debdiff
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> I'll do that now
<knome> ta
<bluesabre> and then move on to the greeter merge
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> so, what needs to be inside of a deb, and what am I diffing against?
<knome> lp:xubuntu-docs/precise what needs to be inside
<knome> and diff against 11.10.0 or 12.04.0, whichever you please
<bluesabre> alrighty then
<bluesabre> knome: done, where do I need to upload this debdiff?
<knome> the bug
<knome> bug 1207493
<ubottu> bug 1207493 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu Precise) "[SRU] Documentation does not match shipped system version (11.10 shipped with 12.04)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1207493
<bluesabre> danke
<bluesabre> uploaded
<knome> ok, can you do one more thing?
<bluesabre> whats up?
<knome> poke seb128 in #ubuntu-devel and tell you've uploaded the new debdiff
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> ta
<bluesabre> done
<bluesabre> now, the waiting game
<knome> ;)=
<bluesabre> *chuckle* https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1272652
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1272652 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "lightdm-gtk-greeter-1.7.0: infobar for PAM has red background" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> so, what should the severity of a bad password be? :)
<elfy> polka dots
<bluesabre> yes!
<elfy> red background - red dots
<elfy> wfm
<knome> bluesabre, btw, did you check the package? :))
<knome> /test
<bluesabre> no, I assumed that since it was all self-contained (debian and all) it had already been thoroughly tested and all changes were already there
<knome> hahahahahah
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> don't let me down knome!
<knome> if you upload the new package you created, i can test it (as i said)
<bluesabre> I'll try to pbuilder it now
<bluesabre> just a few minutes, hopefully I'll have a package then
<bluesabre> knome: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rbfwdd90upfyv7j/QGV9kuZ6MZ/xubuntu
<knome> lol
<knome> can't see file names without js enabled
<bluesabre> you disable js? craaaaaaazy
<bluesabre> or you turn it off before clicking on a link from anybody in -team
<bluesabre> probably a safe idea
<knome> hah
<knome> i use noscript
<knome> so js is disabled by default
<knome> i'll allow as needed
<knome> bluesabre, worksforme, ta
<bluesabre> fantastic
<bluesabre> didn't even have to try that hard :)
<knome> lol
<knome> just wondering if we need a bigger version number than .0
<knome> but... that's solvabl
<knome> e
<bluesabre> again, just went with what you left me :)
<knome> well i said you can debdiff to either 11.10.0 or 12.04.0, which implies that there is a 12.04.0 package
<bluesabre> yeah, didn't see one though
<bluesabre> the precise package is 11.10
<knome> precise-proposed is 12.04.0
<knome> that's the earlier SRU upload
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> it takes too long for a package that only affects one single distro to make it back to the -updates repo
<ochosi> hey folks
<ochosi> bluesabre: do we have an ETA on the greeter landing in trusty btw? (i presume it'll go via debian?)
<bluesabre> ochosi: well, if we consider it stable, let's fix any new bugs, make it 1.8.0, and push it to debian
<bluesabre> in which case, I'll hold off on the debian merge for 1.6.1-5
<bluesabre> that will basically be our "feature freeze"
<bluesabre> that will get us quite a bit more testing too
<Unit193> ochosi: Every time I bring up the tabwin I get xfwm4-Message: (nil)  in startxfce4.log
<bluesabre> ochosi: also, let's make sure to merge the xfce4-display-settings branch we have this weekend
<ochosi> bluesabre: sounds like a good plan, let's make a shortlist for 1.8.0
<ochosi> what did you think about my suggestion to include a settings-UI?
<ochosi> Unit193: hmm, is that something you can also confirm with the last state of master there without the extra tabwin code?
<Unit193> 4.11.1 count?  It's newer.
<ochosi> bluesabre: (i mean one that also allows setting the light-locker stuff optionally)
<bluesabre> ochosi: sounds like a good idea, but I'd like to get one together for light-locker
<ochosi> light-locker has so little options, that i think a settings UI for the greeter that includes those makes more sense
<bluesabre> yeah, but then every lightdm project that uses light-locker has to implement their own
<bluesabre> which, maybe that's something we should discuss with robert ancell
<bluesabre> slickymaster: are you around?
<bluesabre> I'm going to upgrade my dokuwiki to the latest stable today, but don't want to interrupt your work
 * bluesabre gives some time to respond
<ochosi> bluesabre: ubuntu doesn't need a settings UI
<ochosi> they control everything with gnome-settings-daemon
<ochosi> so they can easily include light-locker settings somewhere (the timed locking is done in ubuntu with g-s-d as well)
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> and there arent *that* many greeters...
<ochosi> i think kde also has one
<bluesabre> it might also be a good idea to make light-locker configurable via dbus
<ochosi> but they would want a settings ui in qt
<bluesabre> so that light-locker can worry about setting timeouts and whatnot
<bluesabre> or maybe not
 * bluesabre still doesn't know enough about x to make a good decision on that stuff
<ochosi> nah
<ochosi> we didn't implement an extra ticker in light-locker and decided to rely on X11's screensaver extension signal instead
<ochosi> so that's the crucial setting
<bluesabre> got it
<bluesabre> okay, so want to make a lightdm-gtk-greeter_1.8.0 wiki page?
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> a blueprint on the launchpad page
<bluesabre> but I'd prefer the wiki myself
<ochosi> yeah, the wiki is more responsive
<ochosi> bluesabre: furthermore we already have a wiki page :) http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=greeter-roadmap
<brainwash> ochosi: so no settings gui for light-locker?
<bluesabre> ochosi: you gotta tell me these things :)
<brainwash> basically a front-end for xset
<ochosi> bluesabre: hehe, well i haven't used it for a while, but andrew got his inspiration on what to implement from there
 * bluesabre still thinks xfce-power-man should handle that stuff
<ochosi> yeah, but we have more control over the greeter
<ochosi> and getting a new powerman release will probably not happen for trusty
<bluesabre> right
<brainwash> already took some time to get full systemd support :D
<ochosi> well there's a branch now where eric merged in all the stuff, but parts of it are still todo, so...
<brainwash> but wait.. you can remove power manager and still use light-locker
<ochosi> yeah
<brainwash> power manager is optional
<bluesabre> yeah, but power manager has options for screen timeout and whatnot
<bluesabre> and they don't seem to actually do anything
<brainwash> only dpms
<brainwash> it does not change the screen saver timeout
<brainwash> xscreensaver does/did
<Migou> Hi people, I'm glad to tell you I'm ready for beta testing! I found time for resizing a partition, and succesfully installed a Xubuntu from a usb key using testdrive-gtk.
<ochosi> bluesabre: how long do you think would it take you to set up a basic settings UI?
<bluesabre> that's why I think light-locker needs a settings gui
<bluesabre> since its made to replace xscreensaver
<brainwash> bug 1193716
<ubottu> bug 1193716 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Xfce Power Manager does not override the screen saver timeout (X11 Screen Saver extension)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193716
<brainwash> bluesabre: yes, I think so too
<brainwash> some basic gui, only few switches, nothing fancy
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> ochosi: dunno
<bluesabre> ideally not long
<bluesabre> but c/vala take 20x longer than a python gtk app
<bluesabre> if we have any vala people in this channel, they could probably do it quickly
<ochosi> yeah, i dunno, what settings would light-locker-settings even include?
<bluesabre> timeout, enabled
<ochosi> hmpf
<bluesabre> lock on suspend/hibernate
<bluesabre> y'know, the xscreensaver stuff, minus the screensaver
<ochosi> well for light-locker it'd also mean adding a settings-file
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> or using gsettings or something, but the config file would be best
<brainwash> you can enable locking on suspend via xfce4-session (it will call xflock4), and light-locker already does it automatically via dbus
<brainwash> this might confuse the user
<bluesabre> just things to consider
<ochosi> yeah, i thought implementing one or two locker-settings in the greeter might mean less settings-duplication
<ochosi> and it already has a settings-file, so..
<bluesabre> but that makes it a system-wide config
<ochosi> hmmm, true :/
<bluesabre> maybe try to talk cavalier into it?
<bluesabre> I'd do it, but obviously I've got a whole other list atm :)
<ochosi> yeah, i knw
<ochosi> humm humm
<ochosi> what are you working on atm?
<bluesabre> cleaning
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> then menulibre2.1 and mugshot
<bluesabre> then catfish
<bluesabre> should also do a parole release today
<bluesabre> but I can't compile it as is
<bluesabre> need to find a way to not die on deprecation warnings
<bluesabre> figure out where that flag is getting toggled
<ochosi> hmm :/
<ochosi> i'd really hate to see 0.5 in another LTS release...
<ochosi> don't wanna keep supporting that foreever
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I'm ready to make it 0.6 any time
<ochosi> yeah, i think we should really consider that
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> i mean, doing a stable release soon
<bluesabre> I think we're done adding features anyway
<ochosi> but it doesn't help if it doesn't build with gtk3.10 :/
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> I'll try to work on that today too
<ochosi> well mostly wanting to add that menuitem
<ochosi> for the docs
<ochosi> and then it's release-ready i'd say
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> since you're not on trusty
<bluesabre> please try both commands:
<bluesabre> ./autogen.sh --enable-debug=full --enable-maintainer-mode --enable-gtk-doc --with-gstreamer=0.10
<bluesabre> ./autogen.sh --enable-debug=full --enable-maintainer-mode --enable-gtk-doc --with-gstreamer=1.0
<bluesabre> and make them both
<bluesabre> to see if there are any build issues
<bluesabre> you can also 'make distcheck' too after that
<bluesabre> if there are any issues, let's resolve those
<bluesabre> otherwise, not quite release-ready :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: with-0.10 works fine, only docs warnings (which we already know about)
<ochosi> same with 1.0
<ochosi> so on saucy / gtk3.8 everything is fine
<bluesabre> great, thanks
<bluesabre> ochosi: ok, it builds in trusty
<ochosi> sweet!
<bluesabre> just not with enable-debug=full
<ochosi> hmkay
<ochosi> we've had that one before...
<bluesabre> but since distcheck works, thats fine by me
<bluesabre> I'll do a release tonight
<ochosi> yup, we can fix that in 0.6.1
<bluesabre> 0.6
<bluesabre> get any fixes you want in now :)
<ochosi> but don't forget to add the menuitem ;)
<ochosi> hehe, ok
<bluesabre> if you can, please do ;)
<ochosi> gotta go to shop, bbiab
<bluesabre> k
<bluesabre> still cleaning around here
<ochosi> bluesabre: so wait, the problem with compiling with enable-debug=full comes from the deprecated stuff and gtk3.10?
<brainwash> ochosi: what color does the selection rectangle have in thunar?
<ochosi> not sure anymore
<ochosi> nothing we set in the theme though
<ochosi> bbiab
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes
<bluesabre> enable-debug=full turns on the fail on warning
<brainwash> ochosi: it's grey here, but blue in every other app
<bluesabre> yeah, confirmed grey here too
<bluesabre> didn't use to be that way :\
<brainwash> thunar seems to ignore the color specified by the theme
<brainwash> bug report time again
<bluesabre> slickymaster: upgraded my wiki, you can use it without any concerns again :)
<sergio-br2> hey ochosi, take a look at my elementary branch
<ochosi> hey sergio-br2 
<ochosi> what will i see when i look there?
<sergio-br2> i changed calculator and transmission icon, and initial 96 px release, and others stuff
<ochosi> okeydokey, currently i'm re-setting up my laptop (new ssd, install trusty...) so it might take a bit
<ochosi> but sounds great
<sergio-br2> but it not ready yet, i'm doing revision in each thing i commit.
<ochosi> ok
<sergio-br2> ochosi, will you change trash icon? I remember that you talk of it. If not, i will put in places/96
<ochosi> sergio-br2: yeah, i'm still considering it, but haven't had the time to finish it
<ochosi> i mean i have a local proposal for it
<sergio-br2> hum, ok, then i will wait
<ochosi> yeah, no rush with that
<ochosi> the trash is hardly ever visible in 96px ;)
<sergio-br2> yeah
<ochosi> (hardly anyone puts their sidebar to that size i guess)
<ochosi> ok, gotta try to install trusty now, bbiab
<sergio-br2> anyone, whisker-menu will be at trusty?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: yeah, it's planned
<ochosi> ok, installation of trusty daily went smoothly i have to admit
<bluesabre> bah, merges are no fun
<ochosi> bluesabre: in bzr?
<bluesabre> debian -> ubuntu
<ochosi> oh, mh
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: let's wait on that sync, we'll be pushing 1.8 in a few days, which will get rid of some of the debian patches
<bluesabre> ochosi: let me know when you've added the menuitem to parole
<ochosi> bluesabre: still working on the migration to trusty..
<bluesabre> no hurry :)
<ochosi> but yeah, i'll try to look into it asap
<ochosi> bluesabre: contents-item added to the menu and pushed
<bluesabre> ochosi: great, thanks!
<ochosi> np, wasn't too hard or time-consuming
<bluesabre> I'll do the release today
<ochosi> nice
<bluesabre> 0.6.0, right?
<ochosi> yeah, i'd say we go for it
<ochosi> unless there are bugs you wanna fix first
<bluesabre> out of bugs that are easy to fix
<ochosi> :>
<bluesabre> we'll get plenty of bug reports once this hits sid/trusty
<ochosi> i guess so
<ochosi> i think it's ready to go stable, we might have to do a 0.6.1 soon anyway ;)
<bluesabre> or once an arch user picks it up :)
<ochosi> and this way we at least get more testing
<bluesabre> agreed
<sergio-br2> ochosi, there is a pull request from Noskcaj in elementary, is somethin missing in his branch?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: can't remember to be frank :/
<ochosi> it's been a long time since he submitted that
<ochosi> sergio-br2: feel free to check whether the icons are ok and work as expected
<ochosi> if so, we can merge it
<sergio-br2> hum, ok
<sergio-br2> i will see
<ochosi> time to switch back to trusty...
<bluesabre> ochosi: parole 0.6.0 released
<bluesabre> want to ping Corsac about getting it into debian?
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks, and done
<ochosi> and i'm on trusty now, finally
<ochosi> still gotta set up my dev-env, but i think i'll get there
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> thanks for doing the releases
<bluesabre> yup, releases are easy so np
<ochosi> sergio-br2: started to look at your branch now. i think the calculator change can be fine, but i'd tone down the color of the number a bit. it's ok that it's readable, but it's not important, so it shouldn't be too much in the foreground
<ochosi> transmission also looks good, the changes seem very subtle to me, so i think you can pursue that
<ochosi> apps/128/preferences-desktop-sound looks a bit too small for being in that folder :)
<bluesabre> 09:05  bluesabre: Noskcaj: let's wait on that sync, we'll be pushing 1.8 in a  few days, which will get rid of some of the debian patches
<Noskcaj> ok, sounds good
<Noskcaj> plus that will be put in unstable rather than exp
<Noskcaj> FYI: gmusicbrowser's new version is now in unstable
<Noskcaj> and gthumb is in exp
<ochosi> nice, so gmb will hopefully be synced to ubuntu soon
<Noskcaj> yeah
<brainwash> Unit193: new xfwm4 package from your PPA works fine here, according to elfy's feedback there might a problem with nvidia + open source driver
<Unit193> Oh bah, always a problem with that.  drivers: nvidia (unloaded: fbdev,vesa,nouveau)  (though it's tad older.)
<brainwash> I cannot test it with the nouveau driver, because I got no nvidia card at home :)
<brainwash> Unit193: new patch for xfdesktop available https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10605
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10605 in General "Desktop icons/labels are not properly themed after login" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> this time I'll test it locally, no need to abuse your PPA
<Unit193> I'm planning on making a package, but not in PPA.
<brainwash> for your own use?
<Unit193> Test it, yeah.  Whoever else might want to. :P
<brainwash> sounds good
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/dump/
<sergio-br2> ochosi, you mean, in what size of calculator?
<sergio-br2> i forgot to resize the preferences-desktop-sound in 128... my bad
<sergio-br2> i think i changed the calculator button color only in the small icons
<sergio-br2> indeed, i have the right  preferences-desktop-sound 128 icon... but forgot to commit
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Were there any dependency changes from parole 0.5.91 to 0.6.0?
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: pretty sure there were not
<Noskcaj> then i should be up to the nagging corsac for uploads stage of packageing in half an hour
<bluesabre> oh, don't we already bugged him :)
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, As in, i just committed the packaging, it's in need of upload
<bluesabre> do we sync parole from debian?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, We would if corsac wasn't quite so against autoreconf. Or did you update the macros with this release?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: i looked mainly at the 48px version of the calculator when comparing current/proposed
<bluesabre> didn't touch any of that
<Noskcaj> The merge i guess
<Noskcaj> *then
<ochosi> meh, annoying bug in gtk3.10 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710909
<ubottu> Gnome bug 710909 in .General "Buttons are cut in some windows" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<ochosi> (just in case anyone thinks of reporting this as a bug against greybird)
<ochosi> sergio-br2: btw, for your 96px icons to be actually used, the index.theme file has to be updated
<Noskcaj> When can we expect 512x icons? They are now part of hicolor ;)
<sergio-br2> 1 or 2 icons in 512 px :D
<sergio-br2> i will fix this ochosi, thanks
<ochosi> thing is, as long as icons aren't used anywhere in that size, it makes no sense to draw them
<ochosi> other than that, i think your merge-request looks ok
<ochosi> gotta look at it a bit more, but then we can merge it in
<sergio-br2> i will fix somethings, then you can merge
<sergio-br2> elementary has a new package-x-generic mime, you saw?
<sergio-br2> btw, i put labels to this package mime in 64 and 96 (zip, tar.gz...)
<ochosi> sergio-br2: yeah, saw it, maybe we should also do that for 128px then...
<ochosi> mimes are lots of work, because there are so many icons
<sergio-br2> yeah
<ochosi> took me a while to do all the 64px ones
<sergio-br2> but i think i will merge this package update from elementary
<sergio-br2> then i change it in 128. A lot of work...
<McLovin> I just use gimp and then resize and save in the proper folders
<sergio-br2> ?
<McLovin> for doing icons?
<ochosi> yeah, but we work with svg
<McLovin> there has to be a way to do a batch job to take care of it
<Noskcaj> McLovin, not really
<McLovin> oh, svg you really don't have to change the size, as it resizes itself auto
<sergio-br2> actually, it is not only resize... each size, is a different icon. You have to change many things, and see if it fits well in png
<McLovin> well, yeah, some icons do change depending on what it is
<McLovin> but I use png for icons that have to change with size
<ochosi> sergio-br2: weird, the package icon in elementary looks the same: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-01-25-222332.php
<McLovin> for anything that is uniform in all sizes, I just set an svg, and I'm done with it
<sergio-br2> no, there is a little change
<sergio-br2> i get from launchpad, using bzr
<ochosi> me too
<sergio-br2> strange
<sergio-br2> you get the svg?
<sergio-br2> in 48, it is a little different
<ochosi> ok, yeah, very subtle change
<ochosi> they also have a new photoshop mime icon amongst others
<sergio-br2> photoshop?
<ochosi> image-vnd.adobe.photoshop.svg
<sergio-br2> yeah, can see here
<ochosi> (we don't even have that, i guess we could symlink it)
<sergio-br2> you will merge this?
<sergio-br2> btw, gimp opens photoshop files?
<ochosi> not sure yet, if i have time, maybe
<ochosi> yeah, gimp opens them
<sergio-br2> the package mime, you like the color? I think we can merge the others detail, but stay with old color
<ochosi> i like that the shadow is less pronounced in the new version
<ochosi> i'm fine with staying with the old colors
<ochosi> although i don't think that ppl on average monitors will see much difference
<sergio-br2> :D
<knome> doing really minor changes for downstream is a bit meh in general.
<ochosi> yeah, i usually never do it
<ochosi> the terminal icon was a bit of an exception
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: since you both seem to be around, when would be good for you to do the wallpaper voting? or would you wanna do it now?
<knome> i have time to do it today
<pleia2> sure, now is fine
<ochosi> cool
<knome> ok, so give me some time
<knome> in 20 mins?
<ochosi> sounds good
<knome> ok, brb
<pleia2> I need to look at them anyway :)
<ochosi> hehe
<pleia2> omg there are like 4000 of them
<ochosi> hehe, not really
<brainwash> ochosi: you were right, trying to fix visual glitches in usc is really a waste of time :D
<pleia2> ok, 165 :)
<ochosi> knome took down the tarball of his server already...
<pleia2> I gave you the link, if you need
<pleia2> ah, this file includes the little ones too
<knome> my server? :)
<ochosi> yup, you need to rm *250*
<knome> it was on pleia2's server!
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> well, anyhoo, i migrated to a new ssd and havent pulled everything along yet
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, it is... well unless you get in touch with upstream and make them fix it or submit patches
 * pleia2 votes for all the pink ones
<knome> shall we flood the channel, or create a temporary one?
<ochosi> create a temp i guess
<ochosi> since i presume there might also be some casual discussion in between
<knome> my proposal is another channel, then pastebin the log (or create a new meeting minutes page) and paste the link to this channel
<knome> #xubuntu-community-wallpapers
<knome> (everybody is free to join of course)
<knome> pleia2!
<pleia2> ohi
<knome> :P
<knome> see your invite, or the backlog
<sergio-br2> ochosi, why places type in index.theme are fixed? The others like apps are scalable
<ochosi> sergio-br2: i'll get to it once the voting is over
<sergio-br2> ok
<ochosi> sergio-br2: yeah, agreed, the index.theme should be revisited
<sergio-br2> ok, i will do that
<ochosi> would be good to test how that affects apps
<ochosi> best way to test is xfdesktop
<ochosi> because you can set the icon-size manually in 1px steps
<sergio-br2> small icons are fixed type...
<ochosi> yeah, that's ok
<ochosi> you can also check gnome
<ochosi> we don't want apps to scale e.g. toolbar icons
<ochosi> (which they do, which is why they are fuzzy when you use the same theme in svg)
<ochosi> (prominent example: inkscape)
<sergio-br2> humm, ok
<sergio-br2> but places 48, 64, 96, 128, are fixed too?
<ochosi> i know, that is something we can change i think
<ochosi> but i'd like to test it
<ochosi> usually apps don't use random icon-sizes
<ochosi> so setting all to scalable isn't a great idea
<ochosi> you can also control icon-sizes with xsettings
<ochosi> and if you just set them to some random size, you'll end up with fuzzy icons
<sergio-br2> i included only 96 things.
<ochosi> sergio-br2: what do you mean exactly?
<sergio-br2> included only 96 things in index.theme. Better not change the others :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> ok, i'll test how the desktop handles them and will update the index.theme
<ochosi> bluesabre: what does mugshot 0.2 do that 0.1 didn't?
<bluesabre> ochosi: gets accepted into debian is really the main feature
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> why didn't 0.1?
<bluesabre> other than than, python3 by default, help goes to url, etc
<bluesabre> basically the person that reviewed it hated the packaging
<ochosi> ok, i see
<bluesabre> so, I've upgraded the packaging
<bluesabre> and Noskcaj can now help :)
<Noskcaj> Will do
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> nice
<bluesabre> I'll have that release probably tonight
<bluesabre> and menulibre-2.0.1 tomorrow
<Noskcaj> yay.
<bluesabre> catfish sometime this week
<bluesabre> going to be a productive time for me :)
<Noskcaj> And 14.04 will be a great release
<bluesabre> indeed
<knome> it was always going to be!
<ochosi> what's needed for catfish?
<bluesabre> just some minor updates to appease the debian folks
<knome> an aquarium, and some food
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: do you have the link to the debian issues?
<Noskcaj> one sec
<Noskcaj> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=catfish
<bluesabre> thanks!
<Noskcaj> plus https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish
<Noskcaj> pexpect is a fairly big issue really
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> and now that python3-pexpect is available, we're in pretty good shape
<Unit193> ochosi: xfwm 4.11.1 doesn't do it.
 * Unit193 back to tabwin.
<Noskcaj> yep, although i think i have some work to do on pexpect in debian
<ochosi> bluesabre: they all sound manageable, what icon-name are you using now btw?
<ochosi> Unit193: :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: ?
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1258713
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1258713 in catfish (Ubuntu) "Catfish crashing with gi._glib.GError: Icon 'camera-photo' not present in theme" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> ochosi: So you borked stuff?
<bluesabre> yeah, thats fixed in trunk
<ochosi> Unit193: what where who?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-01-26
<Unit193> ochosi: the nil thing, remember?
<ochosi> ah right, well did you test the state of master when tabwin diverged?
<Unit193> No.
<ochosi> that would be cool if you could, just to see whether it was fixed in master
<ochosi> Unit193: so let me know when you've tested that ^ ;)
<Unit193> Hah, suuure.  I think merging into master will come first. :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think for the 1.8 release of the greeter, i'll include a example-greeter.css file
<knome> phew, that took over 2 hours :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: updated http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=greeter-roadmap, in case you wanna add something there..
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks
<ochosi> as you can see i postponed the settings ui
<ochosi> i really don't want that to hold us back
<ochosi> and we'll have to find a different way for ppl to set the locking-timeout
<ochosi> Noskcaj: any idea when whiskermenu will get into ubuntu?
<Noskcaj> It's been there for two months
<ochosi> oh
<knome> stupid whiskermenu! :P
<ochosi> weird, didn't find it befor
<ochosi> e
<ochosi> quick question, is the fact that nm-applet doesn't use indicator-application in trusty a known issue already?
<ochosi> oh right, it is
<ochosi> sergio-br2: just another piece of feedback, places/96/user-desktop's shadow is a bit off
<sergio-br2> hum, ok
<sergio-br2> in the right?
<sergio-br2> oh, that is
<knome> ochosi, weren't you supposed to go to sleep? :P
<ochosi> sergio-br2: compare it to 128px, the shadow is a bit too pronounced
<ochosi> sergio-br2: better to move it up a few pc
<ochosi> px
<ochosi> knome: yeah, empty promises...
<ochosi> :)
<knome> as always
 * knome hides
<ochosi> yup, basically
<sergio-br2> hum, probably i forgot this
<sergio-br2> fixed ochosi
<ochosi> yup, much nicer
<ochosi> i think the apps/96/calculator icons could use a bit more detail on the buttons
<ochosi> as in: thinner lines for the shades of the buttons, or a more subtle gradient
<ochosi> looks a bit clunky atm
<Unit193> ochosi: Downgrade indicator-application and you're good.
<ochosi> sergio-br2: also the apps/32/calculator has very pronounced button shadows in comparison to 48
<ochosi> Unit193: hmm, is it the upstart problem?
<sergio-br2> seeing that
<Unit193> Don't know, also a plus one to knome. :P
<ochosi> haha
<sergio-br2> ochosi, you mean, 2 px to 1 px in the shade (light) ?
<ochosi> sergio-br2: either that, or make it a gradient or something more subtle
<ochosi> Unit193: there's only one version in trusty, downgrade to what?
<sergio-br2> with 128 too ochosi?
<ochosi> or at least i don't seem to be able to force a lower version in synaptic
<ochosi> sergio-br2: yeah, 128px has the same problem
<Unit193> ochosi: uts indicator-application  wget saucy one.
<ochosi> hmpf
<ochosi> this should really get fixed
<Unit193> alias = uts,  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/%s
<knome> ochosi, put it on your todo list (:
<ochosi> wait, *my* todo list? :)
<knome> yeah...
<ochosi> i think we have to wait until tedg has released all indicator-upstart work
<ochosi> so far, many bugreports only have "fix commited"
<Unit193> So what's the point in getting sessions, then indicators in Upstart?
<ochosi> no idea
<knome> Unit193, you're asking in the wrong channel ;)
<Unit193> Because doesn't upstart use dbus?  so try  sudo service dbus restart
<Unit193> I guess I just don't get the big rush. :/
<bluesabre> alrighty mugshot-0.2 seems to work completely in trusty now
<bluesabre> time to test with debian
<sergio-br2> ochosi, button shadow in calculator 32 means what?
<bluesabre> probably better to mention here...
<bluesabre> mugshot-0.2 released: https://launchpad.net/mugshot/0.2/0.2
<bluesabre> night all
<Unit193> Sleep well.
<Noskcaj> wow, valgrind finds a lot of issues in every program
<Noskcaj> I'm trying to triage bug 1199952
<ubottu> bug 1199952 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "memory leak in xfce4-indicator-plugin" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199952
<Noskcaj> but i can't get valgrind to run for indicator-plugin
<Guest77482> hello, somebody notice the bug about the logins between users?
<ali1234> that memory leak certainly still seems to be a problem
<xubuntuser> yesterday my logs gets gigasize O_o
<xubuntuser> where I can send bugs xubuntu specific ?
<brainwash> Unit193: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=1516cb96c6ec9b20b63f05e7bcc4af8594d43129
<brainwash> any idea when it will land in trusty?
<brainwash> ochosi: now that you are using trusty, can you reproduce the 1px extra space in the top panel to the right?
<brainwash> I was not able to find a clean solution to remove it :/
<elfy> nice - have an unfindable item in parole's autosave playlist list and it segfauls
<Unit193> Remove .config/parole ?
<Unit193> Or, send it to them then remove?
<brainwash> ali1234: couldn't the monitor_root_pixmap check be made during runtime by passing a parameter to xfwm4?
<brainwash> ali1234: this way we could enable it for the xubuntu session only and offer a way to enable/disable it for non-xubuntu users who use xfwm4
<brainwash> ...in ubuntu
<ali1234> there is no reason to ever disable it
<brainwash> ali1234: so it can be made the default behavior?
<brainwash> what is reason to disable it by default at compile time? lack of testing?
<ali1234> ofourdan thinks it is dangerous
<ali1234> it isn't though
<ali1234> also you never see the background rendered by xfwm in xfce because xfdesktop covers it
<elfy> Unit193: I did :) 
<ali1234> you only see it during transitions
<ali1234> people who use xfwm outside xfce ar emore likely to want it enabled
<brainwash> ali1234: but xfdesktop usually starts "too late"
<ali1234> yes but you don't need to monitor root pixmap for that
<ali1234> you only need to copy it once to handle the startup case
<ali1234> after that, for most people, the desktop wallpaper will not change
<brainwash> ok, I understand
<brainwash> so monitoring it all the time is not needed
<brainwash> what about a timeout then to stop the monitoring?
<brainwash> just looking for a solution that does not require xfwm4 to be built specially for ubuntu
<ali1234> send the patch to debian
<brainwash> I'll do that, hopefully my idea actually makes sense
<knome> brainwash, let's not pretend anybody is using xubuntu when they are using voyager, please
<sergio-br2> hey hello
<sergio-br2> anyone knows if Parole plays h264 videos (mp4)?
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, Should do
<sergio-br2> i tried now, and it didn't work
<knome> sergio-br2, this isn't the support channel though
<sergio-br2> yeah, but i tested in trusty
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, Perhaps check the current codecs installed. Or wait for parole 0.6.0
<sergio-br2> is it in proposed?
<Noskcaj> Waiting for corac to upload
<Noskcaj> *corsac
<sergio-br2> hum, ok
<knome> how can 0.6.0 wait for an upload while it hasn't been released yet?
<Noskcaj> it has
<sergio-br2> so, the issue: try to play a video, it opens a window that ask you to install codec stuff, you install this, then you try to play again, and the window returns again. So, the user never will see a video... don't know if it is a issue in 0.6.0
<Noskcaj> sergio-br2, have you got restricted-extras installed?
<knome> right.
<Noskcaj> And can you find a video online with the issue so i can try and reproduce it
<knome> i'm pretty sure this playback bug/problem hasn't got much to do with 0.6
<sergio-br2> yeah, xubuntu-restricted-extras
<brainwash> sergio-br2: does it work with any other gstreamer based media player? gstreamer 0.10 or 1.0
<sergio-br2> i tried with vlc, works well
<brainwash> I assume parole already uses 1.0 by default
<knome> Noskcaj, also:
<knome> 15:16  bluesabre: 01:29  Corsac: ochosi: does it makes sense that for a stable  parole release to depend on a libxfce4ui development release? :)
<sergio-br2> the video was in a hard disk, not mine
<brainwash> vlc does not utilize the gstreamer backend
<Noskcaj> knome, It's targeted to experimental currently, hopefully it will get an upload
<sergio-br2> well, not tried with other gstreamer backend :)
<Noskcaj> Also, my MOTU application is tomorrow, since applying by email doesn't work
<sergio-br2> this codec install stuff, it's equal in totem?
<Unit193> sergio-br2: What gstreamer packages do you have?  -ffmpg?
<sergio-br2> hum, i'm not in the system now. Trying to reproduce this in a VM
<sergio-br2> * i was trying to play a video in the Live section
<Noskcaj> Try installing: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gnome-codec-install
<Noskcaj> Those are the Suggests for parole
<sergio-br2> ok
<brainwash> sergio-br2: what does "parole --gst-version" return?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, it will be 0.10, since 1.0 isn't fully supported till parole 0.6.0
<brainwash> ok, was just curious
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, You've got a lot of complaints about menulibre crashing so far. How long till the fix?
<sergio-br2> GStreamer 0.10.36
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Is there a command to stop the .pot file being regenerated in mugshot?
<Noskcaj> How can i run indicator-plugin in a way valgrind will be able to test it?
<sergio-br2> so, the mechanism for totem and parole search what codec is missing, is the same?
<sergio-br2> there is an error in totem, it does not install the missing codec too. But i don't know what package i will report this issue.
<sergio-br2> after install xubuntu-restricted-extra, totem plays a mp4 video. But Parole don't
<brainwash> try parole --gst-debug-level=2
<brainwash> to get some debug output in the terminal
<sergio-br2> hum, ok
<brainwash> you should file the report against parole, maybe add gstreamer0.10 to the list of affected packages
<brainwash> sergio-br2: totem already uses gstreamer 1.0
<sergio-br2> i don't know if it is 2 issues
<sergio-br2> 1. Totem and Parole does not install the missing codecs
<sergio-br2> 2. Parole does not play mp4 h264, but totem yes (after install xubuntu-restricted-extras)
<brainwash> you cannot compare totem and parole directly, totem uses the newer gstreamer backend
<sergio-br2> does xubuntu-restricted-extras installs the gstreamer 0.1 that parole needs?
<brainwash> it installs gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
<brainwash> and gstreamer1.0-libav
<sergio-br2> there is no gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg in repo
<sergio-br2> what i need to run h264? Is not package x264?
<brainwash> I checked on saucy, maybe it has been renamed
<sergio-br2>  gstreamer1.0-libav is installed
<brainwash> x264 provides an encoder
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
<sergio-br2> it seems it doesn't have in trusty
<brainwash> bug 1253071
<ubottu> bug 1253071 in mplayer (Ubuntu) "block migration & demote to proposed & decruft NBS libav/ffmpeg (removed from testing in Debian)" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1253071
<brainwash> "Remove completely gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg src+binaries, superseded by gstreamer1.0-libav"
<sergio-br2> bug #1272994
<ubottu> bug 1272994 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole does not play mp4 video with h264 codec" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272994
<brainwash> well, just wait for parole 0.6.0 :)
<sergio-br2> if it works in 0.6.0, i invalid this bug
<brainwash> sergio-br2: please add the information about gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg + bug report link (1253071)
<sergio-br2> sorry
<sergio-br2> i changed the description
<brainwash> btw did you already work on a high res version of the icon used by parole?
<sergio-br2> high res = 128 px ?
<brainwash> I think so, simply open parole's about dialog
<sergio-br2> it's missing only 96 pixel
<sergio-br2> hum, the icon is to small to about?
<brainwash> it's bit blurry, isn't it?
<sergio-br2> well, there is 128 px in my elementary branch
<sergio-br2> blurry in the about window? no... just small... i'm in a VM
<brainwash> ok, I'll upload a screenshot
<brainwash> http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/parole0.php
<brainwash> my bad, it's about the gtk3 build of parole
<sergio-br2> yeah, here it gets small
<sergio-br2> brainwash, the year is not wrong?
<sergio-br2> in the about window
<sergio-br2> it's 2013
<knome> well if the last release is done in 2013..
<knome> or, the release you have
<brainwash> http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole/tree/src/parole-about.c
<brainwash> so the new 0.6.0 release still shows -2013
<knome> yyyeaah, poke bluesabre and ochosi 
<brainwash> major flaw, release 0.6.1 asap
<ochosi> yeah, we're not doing a point-release only for the about window :)
<ochosi> i added a 128px icon for the about dialog, so it should be ok, but i assumed you'd test that brainwash ?
<brainwash> so it's not an elementary icon which gets displayed in the about dialog?
<knome> ochosi, yeah but update git with 2014
<ochosi> nah, we install that with parole
<ochosi> knome: thanks for the advice, wouldn't have thought about that ;)
<knome> ochosi, well obviously!
<brainwash> now that we got 0.6.0 I could actually test it :D
<brainwash> got a bit distracted by all the other bugs out there
<ochosi> holy crap, the new gtk3-filechooser-dialog has a crazy sidebar
<brainwash> you mean these fancy monochrome icons?
<ochosi> it's just ultra-long here...
<ochosi> the symbolic icons are okayish
<ochosi> although they create some visual inconsistency with gtk2 apps
<ochosi> but there's nothing we can do about that
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-19
<sidi> well
<sidi> now would be good
<sidi> gf has arrived though
<knome> heh
<knome> well, ping me once you've done that
<sidi> knome, i templated encryption, i'll let you fill the blanks with the *buntu specifics
<sidi> also added a Dropbox mention in the backup, advising encryption prior to uploading
<knome> mhm
<knome> this document is very welcome
<knome> i will add your name to the doc contributors list
<knome> hooray
<sidi> knome, done.
<sidi> knome, feel free to mention UCL Information Security ;p
<knome> sidi, let's see
<knome> what else do i owe you? :P
<sidi> nothing mate :p
<knome> you come here and i'll buy you a beer or two
<sidi> haha sure
<Unit193> < darkxst> apw, what is the status of bug 1410480? this completely breaks installing via ubiquity on Ubuntu GNOME and probably most other flavours  ||  < ~pitti> yes, it's not flavor specific, happens for ubuntu as well
<ubottu> bug 1410480 in linux (Ubuntu) "overlayfs v1: renaming existing file uses chardev whiteout (should be symlink)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410480
<Unit193> Heads up.
<ochosi> mm, good to know
<ochosi> brainwash: your patch should be moved along shortly, then we can prep the SRU paperwork. seb128 said it's SRU-worthy
<slickymasterWork> sidi, knome, thanks for https://docs.google.com/document/d/18sEImteNJVZ7T6o0RR7erJbCpS8dXwHDC0pRpu1K3aI/edit#heading=h.zafoylvno00b 
<slickymasterWork> it's a fabulous work
<sidi> slickymaster, erm you're welcome :p
<slickymasterWork> not sure also about the xkcd comic
<slickymasterWork> I don't think it would land particularly well in the all -docs layout
<slickymasterWork> but other than than it's really a fabulous piece of work
<slickymasterWork> s/than than/than that
<slickymasterWork> like knome, I also owe you a couple of beers, so if you ever come down south I'll be more than glad to do it ;)
<brainwash> ochosi: that's good news
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> not totally unexpected, but still good :)
<ochosi> btw, we shouldn't select a reviewer directly when filing a MR
<ochosi> cause then ubuntu-branches gets removed and nobody else sees it, i.e. it drops off the radar
<brainwash> ah ok
<ochosi> had to figure that out when passing along the MR today
<ochosi> so just for the future, to keep that in mind, always add reviewers after filing the MR on top of the default
<slickymasterWork> knome, are you working on a MP based on sidi's paper or do you want me to do it?
<sidi> slickymaster, south of US? too far for beer :P
<sidi> slickymaster, it's up to you two now to decide how to turn this into a Xub doc.
<slickymasterWork> sidi, south like in Iberian peninsula ;)
<slickymasterWork> specifically the western country in europe
<sidi> slickymaster, spanish or portuguese or catalan? ;P
<slickymasterWork> portuguese :)
<slickymasterWork> we're western than them
<brainwash> ochosi: https://www.debian.org/security/2015/dsa-3131
<brainwash> so there will be another patch before the -screensaver one
<brainwash> or both patches will be shipped at the same time
<knome> slickymasterWork, yep, i guess so ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol knome, and that means ....
<knome> that i'll do it and ask for your help if needed :P
<knome> the thing is, there are still things that aren't ready
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'm here to help you know
<knome> for example, do we have unattended upgrades enabled on a new install?
<knome> if not, how to turn them on?
<slickymasterWork> I'd say that in two out of three times people will face unattended upgrades, afeter a new install
<slickymasterWork> * after
<knome> why 2/3 ?
<slickymasterWork> unless they're installing in the immediate hour after the releases
<knome> heh
<knome> well can somebody double-check that?
<slickymasterWork> I can perform a few tests on that, but  either Unit193 or bluesabre could cast some technical light on that issue
<knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AutomaticSecurityUpdates
<knome> i guess we only need to see if we have a file in apt.conf.d
<slickymasterWork> I'll boot a VM after lunch to see if I can check that
<knome> sure
<brainwash> bluesabre: thanks for the xubu default settings upload
<knome> has anybody used any of the password managers in the repository?
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you feel like SRU'ing the updated keyboard shortcuts file to utopic and trusty? utopic only needs the 1 line fix, trusty needs http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/482 on top of that
<brainwash> it would be great if you could fix this for 14.04.2, so new users who download this release won't be affected by the bug
<elfy> knome slickymasterWork - http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/9784842/ our /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades
<knome> mhm
<knome> so we have that enabled
<knome> thanks
<brainwash> not having it enabled would be kinda strange
<knome> elfy, are you still on a new installation?
<elfy> newish knome 
<knome> ok
<knome> can you check what the "updates" tab in software & upgrades say
<elfy> I can - but ... 
<knome> mostly interested in the three first dropdowns
<knome> but what? :D
<elfy> I'll boot vm 
<elfy> the updates tab might be all over the place here :D
<knome> huhu
<knome> probably not though;)
<knome> and this is for the V docs anyway
<knome> so should be the situation in V
<elfy> but - nvm - a clean install in that tab has all EXCEPT proposed enabled
<knome> so what about the dropdowns?
<knome> what are the values?
<elfy> oh - hang on 
<elfy> half asleep
<knome> hehe
<knome> me too
<knome> always a good mood to write security documentation in!
<elfy> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-190115-131753.php
<knome> ok, i think i've mostly converted sidi's stuff to digestable text
<elfy> any others while the vm's running?
<knome> hmm, display immediately
<knome> not download and install automatically
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre, Unit193: want to investigate that?
<knome> elfy, not at this time, thanks :)
<elfy> ok :)
<knome> or is that like so only because it's beta stage
<knome> i'll run a trusty install or sth later today
<elfy> hang on - I'll boot the trusty one 
<knome> oh, ok ;)
<sidi> knome, let me know when it's online ;P
<elfy> knome: display immediately in the one with pink highlights
<elfy> which I think was the last one ...
<knome> sidi, probably takes time, it'll need to go to the branch first, then zyl needs to push it online
<knome> and we'll probably not do that until release
<knome> sidi, do you need it for something?
<knome> i mean i can push a copy of that somewhere if you want to show it around
<sidi> i dont need it now nope
<knome> ok
<knome> then expect it around april
<sidi> okay ;p
<knome> i can also poke you when it's on the branch
<knome> so you can get it yourself!
<ochosi> elfy: xnox did a recent update to that part, but afaik he only dropped the extra repo
<ochosi> no idea what's supposed to be ticked exactly and what not
<ochosi> (i presume the first two)
<knome> ochosi, i was thinking that whether the unattended security updates should be on...
<knome> not which repositories are ticked
<elfy> I saw talk on extras - but that's in Other Software - not Updates
<ochosi> knome: right, misinterpreted that maybe in the backlog
<ochosi> didnt read too closely i guess
<ochosi> elfy: btw, what you could check in the next update to xubuntu-artwork that bluesabre pushed/s today is whether that bluetooth icon is monochrome again
<ochosi> it's one of the things i fixed
<elfy> ochosi: well it is monochrome here after update and restarting panel and turning bluetooth on
<elfy> but if it changes color during use - no way of checking that 
<ochosi> it was only !monochrome in the "normal" state
<ochosi> inactive and paired state worked
<elfy> http://en.zimagez.com/full/6e676846acce0827817defaa1cf6b75464fa83b2bc94d3596924c0fb25bf0a9db891b39655ffc10a8a913820beaf444de21558616cb0271a.php
<elfy> good lord - that's a long url
<knome> in the shortish ;)
<knome> what's that banana bumerang
<knome> or is it an orange slice
<elfy> bananamoon
<ochosi> clemetine
<ochosi> clementine
<elfy> oh that - yea clementine 
<ochosi> elfy: yeah that's the inactive state
<elfy> ochosi: so - no way for me to check the other states 
<ochosi> you can't activate bluetooth?
<ochosi> you just need to click the item and then > "turn bluetooth on"
<ali1234> ochosi: what does it mean if there's a bug report with "Theme parsing error: gtk.css:81" but gtk.css doesn't even have 81 lines?
<ochosi> it shouldn't, but maybe it's continuing with the line-count in one of the included files
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> i think this might just be user error
<ochosi> possible, what app throws it with what theme in what version of gtk3?
<ali1234> all of them with orion in utopic, apparently
<ali1234> an lots of other errors that don't seem to match up with anything in the css
<ali1234> i think user might have an old version installed in their home directory
<ochosi> yeah, that's quite possible
<ochosi> many of the bugreports i got for gtk3 had wrong theme versions installed
<ochosi> i get that all the time
<ali1234> going to install utopic in a vm to test
<ali1234> thanks for the hints
<elfy> ochosi: clicking it - it changes to 'white' but I don't have any access to any bluetooth other than that
<ochosi> ali1234: either way, fixing this level of bug in utopic is likely not a priority
<ochosi> elfy: that's perfect, and all i wanted to hear. in your previous screenshot from the VM (if you remember) it was on a blue bg, and that should now be gone
<elfy> nope - not remembering that :)
<elfy> but - glad your happy :)
<ochosi> let me remind you then: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-190115-131753.php
<ochosi> see how blue that is?
<elfy> oh right - yea
<elfy> didn't even look at that vm - was just seeing what knome wanted :D
<elfy> and 'this' machine has bluetooth off 
<knome> ;)
<brainwash> ochosi: it seems like xfpm + light-locker triggers suspend out of nowhere (according to the latest comment in bug 1307545)
<ubottu> bug 1307545 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Power Manager settings are ignored when closing laptop lid" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307545
<ochosi> i read that, but i'm pretty sure that signal isn't coming from light-locker
<ochosi> it doesn't send suspend signals, it only listens to those
<ochosi> and about the power manager i'm not sure either, might be something else
<brainwash> ochosi: so, xfpm -> light-locker > vt switch > logind takes control in vt8 > suspend is triggered > screen is locked twice in vt7 > blank screen bug?
<brainwash> not sure about the "screen is locked twice" part though
<brainwash> ochosi: I hope you understand this reaction chain :)
<brainwash> the solution seems to be to always late lock the screen
<brainwash> even when screen lock is triggered via light-locker-command
<ochosi> was that the thing that always worked?
<ochosi> not sure that locking twice is really happening or really the source of the problem
<brainwash> that thing?
<ochosi> the setting (late locking)
<brainwash> I don't know, the dbus activation uses 2 steps, first lock the screen in vt7 and on resume switch to vt8
<brainwash> similar to late locking
<brainwash> and it never caused trouble I think
<brainwash> but xflock4 -> light-locker-command will instantly switch to vt8
<ochosi> so yeah, we could try to patch xflock to send a dbus command :}
<ochosi> err, dbus signal
<brainwash> is there one? currently light-locker listens to the suspend and resume signal from logind
<ochosi> i was actually kidding
<ochosi> i guess xfpm would have to be more intelligent about light-locker
<brainwash> yes, but light-locker is limited too, you cannot enable late locking on the fly
<brainwash> late locking aka "lock screen in vt7" > "suspend" > "resume" > "switch to vt8"
<brainwash> without loignd
<brainwash> maybe ask cavalier about this
<brainwash> also, the elementary os team might encounter something similar
<knome> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/vivid/revision/281
<knome> sidi, slickymasterWork, ochosi, elfy ^
<elfy> lol - scared him away then 
<knome> yep
<slickymasterWork> already pushed knome?
<knome> yes
<elfy> why firewall? 
<knome> elfy, read teh section :D
<elfy> Use common sense when working in the web - should that no be on rather than in
<elfy> or are we spiders from mars ? 
<knome> elfy, that's the removed chapter ;)
<knome> green are additions
<elfy> oh yea
<elfy> I hate these things :|
<knome> heh
<knome> just get the latest branch version then and run make
<knome> ;)
<knome> or see https://docs.google.com/document/d/18sEImteNJVZ7T6o0RR7erJbCpS8dXwHDC0pRpu1K3aI/edit?usp=sharing
<elfy> that's betterer
<knome> elfy, you're a platypus
<elfy> yep
<elfy> poisonous 
<knome> heh
<knome> no, just anonymous, regarding google
<elfy> oic 
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> so missing words? 
<knome> where?
<elfy> exactly !!!
<knome> what
<elfy> how did you guess :p
<knome> .
<knome> :P
<elfy> Use common sense when working in the web
<knome> wha?
<elfy> oh bah
<knome> silly
<knome> :)
<elfy> attackers can damage your reputation and websites nobody
<elfy> where between websites and nobody :)
<ali1234> that whole sentence
<ali1234> i had to read it about five times to even understand it
<slickymasterWork> ok knome, I'll have a read to your rev later on at home
<ali1234> i think in that section it's worth mentioning that the website owner might be able to see your password, not just attackers. and the website may even have been set up to steal passwords
<knome> you can refer to the security expert sidi
<ali1234> i added a comment on the doc
<knome> if you do changes in the doc, mark them with comments so i'll catch the changes
<elfy> read it - makes sense to me
<sidi> Is there a buggy bug in the doc?
<sidi> blame it on knome.
<sidi> ali1234, we could talk about phishing indeed
<sidi> it's good to know though that the odds are against us
<sidi> essentially phishing is uncommon/unexpensive enough at a global scale
<sidi> that even having users spend 2 minutes a year on avoiding phishing attacks is economically counter-productive
<ali1234> i'm not talking bout phishing
<knome> also updated the translation template so people can get translating soonish
<slickymasterWork> great knome, thanks
<knome> np
<knome> slickymasterWork, we should start thinking the installer slideshow content and looks some day
<slickymasterWork> yes, you're right knome 
<slickymasterWork> do you already have something in mind, regarding the artwork?
<slickymasterWork> or you want to do that after we finish the text part
<knome> nothing apart that i want it updated, maybe in the direction of the website
<slickymasterWork> aesthetically?  
<knome> yes
<knome> one aspect we might want to rethnk is the paths that we show in the slideshow
<knome> are they needed?
<knome> and should we try to point more to the documentation?
<knome> i mean, more than in one place?
<knome> since we do have it up-to-date and relatively broad now
<slickymasterWork> well, in terms of text/info on the slides we're not shipping any major new things, apart from a few changes in some apps
<knome> sure, but maybe we want to flesh out the text anyway
<slickymasterWork> yeah, the paths could be something to be review
<knome> anyway, when we start working on that, i'd figure out what kind of content we want there first
<slickymasterWork> won't to schedule a sprint for us?
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> hmpf
<slickymasterWork> why hmpf?
<knome> let's schedule the scheduling for later
<knome> but something this month
<knome> do you have any preferences/days that simply won't work?
<slickymasterWork> preferably at night
<knome> wfm
<slickymasterWork> after 22:00 UTC everything works for during week days
<knome> weekday or weekend?
<slickymasterWork> on weekends it would be better the ones my kid isn't with me
<knome> which are those?
<slickymasterWork> so I think it would be preferable week days after 22:00  
<knome> ok
<knome> hmm
<knome> i'll consult my wife today on her shifts
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> ochosi, ping me when you're back
<ochosi> knome: pon
<ochosi> g
<knome> oh :)
<knome> will PM you
<brainwash> bluesabre: https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/use-gsettings-for-ll ?
<brainwash> bluesabre: ok or not ok?
<slickymaster> knome, it doesn't have to be now, but tomorrow we could discuss your rev of the docs
<knome> slickymaster, i can do that in some time
<knome> so if you have comments, just pour them in
<slickymaster> well, I not to sure about the opening of the chapter
<knome> it's better than before
<knome> though that doesn't say much
<knome> it was basically listing the ToC before
<slickymaster> we're talking about a about a major subject, one that ought to be read carefully by our users, but at the same time we're almost telling them to at least read just a few subsection of it
<slickymaster> on one hand we tell them "This is a brief guide on keeping your computer and personal information safe from security threats. "
<slickymaster> but on the other we go about " If you only have a short while, you should read at least the following subsections:
<slickymaster> I don't no, it seems a bit of a paradox to me
<slickymaster> not sure if I made myself clear to you k
<slickymaster> knome: 
<knome> sure
<knome> how else would you highlight the most important parts of the chapter?
<slickymaster> that's the thing, I wouldn't, we start it by saying that it's a breif guide
<slickymaster> I don't think you should make it briefer by inviting people to short circuit its read
<knome> well tbh
<slickymaster> even because its a really important subject
<knome> it's not very brief...
<knome> i would have hard time reading that if i didn't know most of it already
<slickymaster> no it isn't, but I'm ok with its extension
<knome> so maybe we shouldn't tell it's brief ;)
<slickymaster> that would be a solution
<slickymaster> I can drop that setence
<slickymaster> as I found a typo in the chapter I can do both things
<knome> maybe we should just face it and say it's written by a security student and that "if you had seen the original version, *then* you'd consider this brief"
<slickymaster> is there a original version?
<knome> not any more
<knome> it was a rant by sidi
<knome> i made it digestible
<slickymaster> why not just drop the adjective 'brief' from that initial sentence?
<knome> that works for me
<slickymaster> ok, I'll do it then and push it
<knome> thanks
<sidi> slickymaster, remember this: users are EXTREMELY unmotivated by security
<sidi> so, never ever waste their time
<slickymaster> lol, the other way around knome, it's me you have to thank you 
<sidi> that's why silly advice like "firewalls" must die
<sidi> it pollutes their "compliance budget"
<sidi> it's better, if they cant be bothered to go through the whole thing, to point them out to the absolute critical points
<knome> though that's true for every subjet
<knome> +c
 * knome punches the C key
<slickymaster> I can see that point sidi, that's just one more argument for me to force them to read it, and to avoid in any possible their lack of attention on such a big issue
<sidi> it's like building up habits, you dont become a gym master in 24 hours if you were a couch potato. And since you barely see the positive externalities of security even after so many months/years, it's hard to motivate yourself into learning more security
<sidi> slickymaster, they'll tell you to **** *** if you *force* them :p that'd be a terrible UX move
<knome> sidi, tut tut
<sidi> knome, sorry i dont mean to say that myself
<sidi> i mean that the reaction will be extreme
<ochosi> the knome train is rolling in..?
<knome> choo choo
<knome> nope
<sidi> and, you dont suspect how people behave about technology that gets in the way when you're not watching
<knome> ochosi, reversed the max-width ;)
<slickymaster> the intention here isn't to force sidi, it's just not to help them being so casual about it all
<slickymaster> nor eight, nor eighty
<ali1234> it's funny how people turn into computer geniuses when they want to read reddit at work
<sidi> slickymaster, i'm not casual about security. it's just very important to accept that we can achieve very little by asking users to invest in security
<ali1234> but can't figure out how to restart a print job
<sidi> they shouldnt have to
<sidi> ali1234, exactly 
<knome> just as funny as when everybody is an advanced user when a tutorial says "advanced users only:"
<knome> maybe we should word it in a way that the important parts are the ones they should START with
<sidi> you can only except a few minutes a day from a person to do all sorts of security-related tasks. whenever they need to login on a service, decide whether to open an email/file/app, register on a service, share files with others... they make tons of security decisions and they lose motivation quickly
<knome> slickymaster, ^ see, this is near the original version rant :)
<sidi> even when you dont follow advice, you dont necessarily get into trouble, and when you do follow it you can still have issues, and you see none of the attacks being blocked
<knome> slickymaster, ^ and that
<ali1234> yet they can follow any arbitrary amount of instruction 100% perfectly when they think they are going to get a free iphone
<knome> wait, free iphones, where?
<sidi> yeah, high perceived benefit ali1234 
<sidi> security = low perceived benefit, high perceived cost
<ali1234> yeah
<slickymaster> I'm not trying to imply that all sidi, I know you're not casual about it, what I'm saying is that we shouldn't let the users be lazy about it just because they're used to and we shouldn't chnage those habits
<knome> slickymaster, what about my latest proposal for wording? ;)
<sidi> slickymaster, let's make a parallel
<slickymaster> you'ver pushed another rev knome ?
<knome> slickymaster, no, i said that in the channel, but you probably missed it from the discussion
<knome> slickymaster, --> maybe we should word it in a way that the important parts are the ones they should START with
<slickymaster> I did :P
<knome> that would fix our issue
<sidi> say, your parents are obese and are starting to show signs of heart disease. you want to convince them to change their diet and exercise. they personally have a fatalist attitude and think nothing they can do will pay off. how do you go about it?
<knome> sidi, wow, are we going deep :P
<sidi> (economics of security for end users: http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1301853/1/compliance_budgetfinal.pdf // http://www.is.uni-muenster.de/security/publications/BG2011_Security_Cost_of_Cheap_User_Interaction_NSPW.pdf)
<knome> sidi, we're trying to fix the wording on the documentation, not save anybody's life
<ali1234> i guess nobody is immune to this, people just have different priorities
<sidi> (everyday security practice http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~adrian/630-f05/readings/dourish-grinter-delgado-joseph.pdf)
<slickymaster> I woulf fight that fatalism sidi 
<sidi> slickymaster, how?
<sidi> that's the Â£100000 question
<sidi> if you know how, i'll tip my boss into hiring you
<knome> but no Â£1000000 ? :(
<sidi> nah, that one is "how to get people to encrypt their emails?"#
<slickymaster> mind me, we, as in Portugal', are famous for suffering from fatalism since the 18th century
<ali1234> ihpones only cost about $600 right?
<slickymaster> how?
<slickymaster> make them, one way or the other, face the serious implications that that fatalism will, for sure, bring to their health
<sidi> fatalism is an outcome of people making efforts and not observing any difference. it's the whole expectations that people have that are broken
<sidi> they think they "should/deserve to" be safe if they make efforts
<sidi> but risk prevention never works that way. accidents still happen
<sidi> you can only look at risk situations by looking at global statistics
<slickymaster> but they have to make some sort of an effort sidi 
<sidi> yet people will select whatever rare event occurs to them  and inflate it because bias of availability.
<sidi> slickymaster, yes but if you ask them more than they are willing to, they will quickly ignore you entirely
<sidi> that's why we must prioritise security advice towards the most critical issues
<sidi> when they are habituated to not run random scripts from forums, it'll already be a massive victory
<sidi> and the practice, which is rife in linux communities, must be globally fought back. only when it's gone you can move on to the next topic
<slickymaster> I agree with you entirely on that sidi, please don't missunderstand what I'm saying
<ochosi> night all
<sidi> night ochosi 
<slickymaster> night ochosi 
<knome> nighty ochosiy
<ochosi> thanks knomey (and all others)
<knome> thanksy!
<slickymaster> what I'm saying is that people, like you pointed out, tend to be lazy and to always take the easier and shortest route, even more if they're invited to do it at the very begining
<sidi> slickymaster, actually [UX evaluation needed, but] I expect people will  read the first two/three paragraphs, then scroll through that doc and read the section titles only
<ali1234> that's what i did
<sidi> there should be some research into how people read newspaper texts, it's fairly consistent
<slickymaster> yes, I knome 
<sidi> so you can use pictures, excerpts written in massive fonts, etc. to catch users' attention throughout the doc and disturb that scrolling down habit
<slickymaster> ali1234 :P
<sidi> vivid colors attract the eye too
<sidi> slickymaster, if they want the short route, make the short route more appealing so they want to stop on the side. dont say "Nope,  I disagree, go for the detour instead it's better for you"
<sidi> unfortunately the customer is always right ;-)
<slickymaster> ok, sidi, in your opinion dropping the adjective 'brief', from "This is a brief guide on keeping your computer and personal information safe from security threats." will in any way change the way they're goping to read the chapter?
<slickymaster> ali1234, would that have changed the way you read it?
<ali1234> probably
<ali1234> it's hard to say, i mean i already know all this stuff
<sidi> slickymaster, it might. i dont take a side without A/B testing on that one
<slickymaster> what would be different ali1234?
<ali1234> different?
<slickymaster> in what different way you think you've read it?
<sidi> slickymaster, it depends on whether people consider it brief or not in the first place, and on whether they trust you or not
<slickymaster> that's exactly it sidi 
<sidi> if they dont trust you, they might be inclined to disagree that it's brief
<ali1234> well speaking of newspapers
<ali1234> if i see a picture in an article i'll try to scan through the article to know more about the picure
<sidi> if they trust you, they might think that even though it's long there's a lot more to it (which reinforces the feeling that security is only for experts, etc.)
<sidi> i mean, this thing is damn too long
<sidi> the content is here, but the structure is painful for users, methinks
<ali1234> i read the business section in the telegraph
<ali1234> if there's ever news about a clothing company, or a movie company or something, they'll *always* use a picture with a pretty lady in it
<ali1234> and it works on me... every time
<slickymaster> putting the trust aspect aside (lets assume they trust the docs) do you think that just by having the brief adjective in that setence will catch more interest in the reading itself?
<slickymaster> if yes, don't you think that the follwoing setence puts that already gained interest to loss when they're invited to go through a sort of a digest?
<slickymaster> * sentence
<slickymaster> sidi: 
<sidi> slickymaster, sorry had to afk
<sidi> was looking for painkillers Q.Q
<slickymaster> bummer
<sidi> slickymaster, i dont think the phrasing of that sentence is ideal
<sidi> but the intro should, in a way or another, deliver the take-home message
<sidi> because in this kind of documents people wont read through the conclusion
<slickymaster> I agree on that
 * slickymaster scratches head
<sidi> sorry guys got urgent work to do
<sidi> and im so tired
<sidi> i can help later, but not now
<sidi> still gotta do the damn UX survey too :-(
<slickymaster> thanks for all the work you've done so far sidi 
<Unit193> knome: keepassx.
<knome> tell slickymaster 
<sidi> slickymaster, its funny putting down the content doesnt feel like work for me ;P
<sidi> the shape, however, is :p
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> I already use it Unit193 
<Unit193> You asked. :P
<Unit193> slickymaster: There's also the mono keepass2, or if you pull the package from Debian there's the keepassx that supports the newer database format, but the UI isn't as good as the current keepassx.
<knome> Unit193, oh you replied for that question
<knome> i thought you told me it's keepassx, not keepass
<slickymaster> the docs mention keepass, not keepassx
<knome> yes, but the package name at least for trusty is keepass
<slickymaster> I'm actually vety satiefied with keepassx
<slickymaster> * very
<knome> i like manual encfs stuff.
<slickymaster> satisfied
<Unit193> !info keepass
<knome> well, semi-automated
<Unit193> !info keepassx
<Unit193> !info keepass2
<ubottu> Package keepass does not exist in utopic
<ubottu> keepassx (source: keepassx): Cross Platform Password Manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.4.3+dfsg-0.1ubuntu1 (utopic), package size 1098 kB, installed size 3081 kB
<ubottu> keepass2 (source: keepass2): Password manager. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.27+dfsg-1 (utopic), package size 768 kB, installed size 2381 kB
<knome> aha
<knome> slickymaster, mind changing that?
<slickymaster> opes, I'll do it
<knome> KeePassX being the right casing?
<slickymaster> replace it by what? 
<knome> we say KeePass
<knome> replace with KeePassX
<Unit193> knome: If you use that one, yes.
<slickymaster> ok, that one it will be
<knome> Unit193, probably
<knome> i don't know about password managers, and if you say it's better....
<slickymaster> I'm still facing that first sentence
<slickymaster> I'm quite happy with keepassx
<knome> :)
<knome> didn't you just say that? :D
<AgAu> does keepassx work with keefox and such to work with thunderbird and firefox?
<Unit193> keepass2 may have plugins that work with it, but it is mono.
<slickymaster> I'm tired knome 
<knome> slickymaster, awwh
<slickymaster> :P
<knome> Unit193, i was asking earlier because i needed to make another pick for the tip-box
<knome> pick pasaffe because i know the maintainer by name, and it had a relatively recent release (nov 2014)
<Unit193> AgAu: Ah cool, so plugins do generally work with keepass2?  Bah..
<knome> why are these citruses so hard to peel!!!!
<AgAu> im using keepass 2.28 with mono and keefox
<knome> btw, that should be my next random quote
<AgAu> so all my passwords get auto filled in thunderbird and ff
<pleia2> knome: want to take a look at the proposed text for our stickers+qa post? pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive
<knome> no
<knome> but i can
<pleia2> lolz
<pleia2> thanks :P
<pleia2> top of the pad, elfy and I worked on it a bit the other day
<slickymaster> pleia2, defence or defense?
<slickymaster> Unit193 ^^
<pleia2> slickymaster: defense
<knome> Manual testing of the development version of the Xubuntu development cycle.
<slickymaster> thought so, also
<slickymaster> thanks pleia2 
<knome> pleia2, is the start supposed to be like that?
<pleia2> knome: you're welcome to fix what's icky :)
<knome> ugh
<knome> :)
<pleia2> probably need to say *during the* development cycle
<knome> you are mussing a verb
 * pleia2 fixed
<knome> missing too...
<pleia2> hmm, I could have sworn that made sense at some point
<knome> haha
<bluesabre> good evening folks
<bluesabre> brainwash: nice, good one
<bluesabre> I'll merge that in :)
<Unit193> Howdy.
<knome> pleia2, is it any better now?
<pleia2> knome: yes, thank you :) I'll prep this on the wordpress later and maybe we publish tomorrow
<knome> i think we should also move the thanks section somewhere
<knome> it's kind of lost there
<knome> especially the mention of future competitions is kind of hidden
<pleia2> concluding with thanks is a kind of natural thing
<knome> *potential
<pleia2> maybe move the future thing up 
<knome> should the unixstickers mention go down to thanks?
<pleia2> probably
<knome> much better
<pleia2> woo editing at the same time
<knome> if you are fine with this, i can dump it to WP
<pleia2> sure
<knome> ok, doing that now
<pleia2> probably wait to publish until tomorrow though (holiday in the US today, lost of people missing from the intertubes)
<knome> sure
<slickymaster> knome: what do you think of: "Keeping your computer and personal information safe from security threats is one of the most important aspects of today's computing. This guide aims to help you achieving it, paying a particular attention following subsections:"
<pleia2> knome: thank you for your help :)
<slickymaster> + to the before ".... following subsection:"
<knome> pleia2, np
<slickymaster> corrected: "Keeping your computer and personal information safe from security threats is one of the most important aspects of today's computing. This guide aims to help you achieving it, paying a particular attention to the following subsections:"
<knome> slickymaster, put that in a pad or sth and i'll poke it next
<slickymaster> knome -> 
<slickymaster> http://pad.ubuntu.com/Lfsfxme4JA
<knome> pleia2, http://xubuntu.org/?p=2921&preview=true
 * knome releases post edit lock
<pleia2> knome: ooh, we shold put a picture of the bundle in too
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> wfm knome 
<pleia2> grabbing the one that is on the bundles page is fine I think
<pleia2> I could take a picture of them myself, but probably not as pro :)
<knome> pleia2, or you can take a photo of them and you!
<knome> who cares about pro!
<pleia2> haha
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-20
<pleia2> ok, I'll take a picture tomorrow
<knome> seriously... :)
<pleia2> I have a photo cube to take nice white background photos!
<pleia2> anyway, have some house things to do with the husband now, bbiab :)
<knome> ooh ooh!
<knome> hf with house
<slickymaster> you didn't like today's computing knome?
<knome> the apostrophe put me off
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> ok this rewording works for me
<knome> i'm just goofing off next, let's see if anything comes out of it
<slickymaster> knome, that would be overreaching
<knome> meh "we"
<slickymaster> besides the 'we' isnt' that too juch
<slickymaster> *much
<knome> yeah..
<slickymaster> I would stick to what we have
<slickymaster> reworded as is nowe
<slickymaster> * now
<knome> wfm
<knome> as i said, didn't know if anything would come off that
<knome> that's a start, and we can improve as we go
<slickymaster> ok, I'll fix the typo, also, correct the keepass issue and push it
<slickymaster> of course
<knome> still time for 16.04 which is obviously the next big target
<slickymaster> exactly
<slickymaster> by then you'll be the next doc lead :P
<knome> you wish :P
<slickymaster> lol
<slickymaster> knome, pushed up to revision 283
<knome> goodie
<slickymaster> damn, forgot to update the translation templates
<slickymaster> doing it now :P
<knome> heh
<slickymaster> done
<bluesabre> ochosi: pushed updated light-locker-settings, in case you were interested :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: almost have the next xfpm patch (without the light-locker enable checkbox) done... should have it ready tomorrow morning, evening latest
<bluesabre> bedtime now, bbl
<Unit193> G'nighty.
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1223808 was that fixed/important/anything worth looking at?  It's marked expired.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,Expired]
<Unit193> Going to presume that it was fixed upstream.
<brainwash> bluesabre: oh, so it's ok to set rm_conffile for our custom light-locker.desktop? if yes, is 15.04.3~ correct, or just 15.04.3?
<brainwash> bluesabre: and is there some enabled/disabled switch?
<brainwash> ochosi: even more comments by b3nmore in the xfpm report =S
<brainwash> he really likes to debug this
<brainwash> but I feel more and more like just ignoring that :/
<brainwash> well, I've subscribed cavalier
<ochosi> yeah, but frankly, you can't dump such a huge pile of **** on someone else like that
<ochosi> with the encyclopedic size of that bugreport, i'm not sure anybody will be able to follow through
<brainwash> right, I will tell him to focus on the last comments which focus on light-locker
<ochosi> and finally, welcome to my world
<brainwash> heh, this power management thing is still haunting us, there is no escape :)
<ochosi> one more thing i might try is building the power-manager without the whole DPMS crap
<ochosi> because in the suspend logic it forces the display to shut off
<ochosi> and that seems to match some of the bugreports
<brainwash> ah, yes, we need some test builds with deactivated feature
<brainwash> features
<brainwash> that would help a lot
<ochosi> theoretically that shouldn't be an issue, cause it only happens in very specific cases, but i'm not sure, maybe the logic is flawed there
<ochosi> can you reproduce any of those black-screen bugs?
<brainwash> no.. I haven't even tested this once, cause I only test xubuntu on a desktop pc
<ochosi> well that doesn't make you the prime debugger, does it..? :D
<brainwash> yeah, I mainly try to gather all the needed info and test results from other users
<brainwash> the core issue (xfpm ignores settings) can be fixed by moving some of the lls logic to xfpm (already done in vivid)
<brainwash> but this new light-locker madness, mmh, and these unexpected results
<brainwash> I really should test this myself
<brainwash> I assume you and bluesabre do run xubuntu on a laptop, right? I'm not saying that you should test this stuff 24/7, but you could theoretically
<brainwash> in case we find a fix or something that helps
<brainwash> I mean theoretically test this once in a while :)
<ochosi> yeah, but for now suspend is really broken here, the xfpm-lls patch needs to be finalized first
<brainwash> you mean in vivid?
<ochosi> yes
<brainwash> oh, ok then
<brainwash> I thought that it was already done
<brainwash> but I've only tested if the sliders work
<brainwash> and the check boxes
<ochosi> the logind-logic part that lls did isn't implemented yet
<ochosi> bluesabre: just a quick question, have you uploaded Greybird1.5 to vivid already? asking because we need that ubiquity-panel-bg.png so i can propose my MR http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ochosi/ubiquity/xubuntu-panel-bg/revision/6244
<ochosi> i was considering putting it into xubuntu-artwork, but then again it doesn't really matter if ppl don't have greybird installed, it'll just fall back to the default ubiquity panel bg
<bluesabre> Unit193: fixed upstream
<bluesabre> ochosi: not uploaded yet, was waiting for numix, can do so though
<ochosi> no worries, i'll get the catfish patch into numix now and then do a releaes
<ochosi> release
<ochosi> then you can do the upload
<bluesabre> cool
<Unit193> bluesabre: Figured it was something silly, listed on harvest.  Trying to use the harvest interface, it used to be decent but now is rather useless. :/
<bluesabre> yeah, I think that was around the time that my sponsored package/debdiff completely trashed encoding in gmb, so I disconnected a bit :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: just tagged Numix 2.5.1
<ochosi> so you're on
<bluesabre> woot
<ochosi> btw, it sucks a tiny bit that our theme-packages don't reflect the actual version numbers of the themes, but still follow the old shimmer-themes model
<ochosi> but well, i guess as long as the greybird version is smaller than the shimmer-themes version, there's not too much we can do
<Unit193> Same source package still.
<bluesabre> ^
<bluesabre> ochosi: should I pull snapshots of the other themes as well?
<ochosi> not sure anything happened with any other theme
<ochosi> i personally haven't pushed fixes to them in quite a while
<bluesabre> bluebird and albatross both have updates
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> i haven't tested those at all
<ochosi> i mean you can update them if you want, but it's not really like those themes are in a good place right now
<bluesabre> several in fact, last releases were in August and March respectively
<bluesabre> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Bluebird/commits/master looks healthy-ish for gtk 3.14
<bluesabre> Albatross too
<bluesabre> want to tag those releases so they're not completely broken in vivid?
<ochosi> looking healthy means you've tested them recently on vivid?
<bluesabre> nope, only that "fixes for gtk 3.14. add missing button states"
<ochosi> yeah, but that's only the tip of the iceberg of what needs to be done for 3.14
<bluesabre> sounds better than when they were last tagged with 3.12/3.10 support
<ochosi> that is what i originally thought would be okayish, but then realised how much more work it would be and decided to drop support
<bluesabre> ok
<ochosi> i'll quickly test
<ochosi> sweet jesus...
<ochosi> ok, bluebird is definitely not in a usable state
<Unit193> Either way, it's less broken than what it is now?
<ochosi> indicators are totally broken
<Unit193> Half broken anyway. :P
<ochosi> all menus have transparent background in bluebird
<ochosi> so that one is definitely unusable
<ochosi> hah, not only that.
<ochosi> even the open-file dialog is transparent
<bluesabre> lol
<Unit193> Pics? :D
<bluesabre> greybird and numix only, it is then
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/xCD12Oo.png
<Unit193> My goodness.
<bluesabre> thats pretty awful
<ochosi> albatross looks a bit better
<ochosi> but still, broken indicators
<ochosi> i guess that one would be a tiny bit less work to fix up
<ochosi> but still...
<bluesabre> maybe we can get some basic support before 15.04
<bluesabre> but I'll drop them to suggests in this upload
<ochosi> maybe
<ochosi> but honestly i don't have time for this
<ochosi> so unless someone else steps up, i'll have to retire them
<ochosi> i can take a quick peek at ali1234's orion work
<ochosi> ok, so orion looks okayish there
<ochosi> some padding issues and i guess some patches from greybird haven't been ported yet
<ochosi> ali1234: plans to fix that ^ up? if so, i wouldn't mind shipping orion in 15.04
<bluesabre> ochosi: did you move the bright theme? not seeing it in the greybird release tar
<ochosi> nope, it's still there: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tree/master/xfce-notify-4.0_bright
<ochosi> the release tars are autogenerated by github, so if something is wrong, blame them
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> you're right, it's not there
<ochosi> don't ask me why
<ochosi> oh crap
<ochosi> the tag is one commit before the notification theme was added
 * ochosi facepalms
<bluesabre> haha
<ochosi> i guess i could rewrite the git history (although that's considered evil)
<bluesabre> greybird-1.5.1.1
<bluesabre> ;)
<ochosi> nah, give me a minute here
<ochosi> nasty ochosi has force-updated the tag
<ochosi> bluesabre: so it should be fine now
<bluesabre> ochosi: running a test build now and will upload in a bit
<bluesabre> uploaded (with typo!)
<bluesabre> shimmer-themes (1.9.2-0ubuntu1) vivid; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   * New theme releases (Greybird:1.5.1, Numix:2.5.1)
<bluesabre>   * debian/greybird-gtk-theme.install:
<bluesabre>     - Install new Greybird-bright notification theme
<bluesabre>   * debian/control: Drop Bluebird and Orion to Suggusts
<bluesabre> stupid Suggusts
<bluesabre> enjoy
<knome> lol
<knome> oi ochosi 
<slickymasterWork> bah knome, great idea rewriting the all "Keeping safe..." chapter
<knome> ? :D
<slickymasterWork> now there's 74 extra strings to be translated :P
<knome> ;)
<knome> hmph.
 * slickymasterWork blames knome entirely 
<ochosi> bluesabre: that's suggusting!
<bluesabre> :p
<Unit193> That's suggestive. ;)
<ochosi> ok, thanks, so i'll file the MR
<knome> ochosi, see -offtopic
<bluesabre> ok, going to do non-xubuntu stuff for a while, bbl
<ochosi> knome: done
<knome> ta
<knome> slickymasterWork, you're now in the xubuntu-website team
<slickymasterWork> \o/
<knome> slickymasterWork, eg. when you log in to the xubuntu website, you have access to change all the content on the fly
<slickymasterWork> thanks
<knome> i know i don't have to say it, but use the privilege responsibly and most importantly, DON'T MESS THE SITE UP :)
<slickymasterWork> I'll try my best not to knome, but I can't promise you nothing :) 
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<bluesabre> replace every instance of "help" with "tarantulas"
<bluesabre> "to get tarantulas with Xubuntu try the Desktop Environments category of the forums"
<slickymasterWork> lol, or link it to some boring literature bluesabre 
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> bluesabre, omg :P
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: in that case, http://open.knome.fi/
<bluesabre> :P
<knome> bluesabre, thanks!
<slickymasterWork> that's one of the top candidates bluesabre 
<bluesabre> lol
<knome> i never tried to be a exciting read
<knome> so i guess that counts as compliment
<bluesabre> joking aside, it is good content
 * slickymasterWork whistles 
<knome> heh
<knome> i hope so
<slickymasterWork> knome, later on I'll need a quick how to
<knome> slickymasterWork, sure
<slickymasterWork> found it -> Pages
<knome> ;)
<knome> it's rather simple, isn't it?
<slickymasterWork> yeaps
<sidi> bluesabre, i'm in favour of the tarantula thing
<Unit193> ^
<elfy> ^
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> :(
 * bluesabre considers adding tarantulas to the next meeting agenda
<knome> silly people..
<elfy> generally
<ochosi> bluesabre: did you integrate the lls logind switches for lock-on-suspend in the light-locker patch?
<ochosi> for xfpm-settings i mean
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> pleia2: just a quick reminder, please don't forget to schedule our next community meeting!
<slickymasterWork> wasn't it knome who was going to run it ochosi?
<ochosi> oh, i just read on the meeting page that pleia2 is to schedule the next meeting
<ochosi> since i wasn't there, i was relying on that #action
<ochosi> but ofc i'm fine with knome running it
<ochosi> knome: just a quick reminder, please don't forget to schedule our next community meeting!
<ochosi> there you go, done
<slickymasterWork> :)
<knome> ochosi, no, pleia2 said she'd do it
<knome> slickymasterWork, ^
<ochosi> i've pinged you both anyway, so nvm
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> sorry then knome, I was still with http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/01/14/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t22:32 in mind :P
<knome> ochosi, you might have an idea for the question in #xubuntu 
<knome> so the staging site is nearer and nearer ready to be published
<ochosi> nice
<pleia2> meeting scheduled, thanks for the reminder
<ochosi> np and ty
<slickymasterWork> heh pleia2, that's my mother birthday
<elfy> almost surprised by my latest bug so far 
<elfy> move it one to something else 
<knome> bbl
<elfy> pleia2: I started playing about with that poll pad btw, got 3 bits to it atm 
<pleia2> cool, I'll have a look
<elfy> right at the bottom 
<pleia2> that's good
<pleia2> s/Unit/Robot though, just to be clear
<pleia2> :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I guess the thing is to give people time to look and then suggest changes - then just go for it
<elfy> anything is better than what we have now probably
<pleia2> yeah
<elfy> I'll add it to the agenda now
<pleia2> thanks
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> ali1234: if you get time and/or interest could you have a look at bug 1412060 
<ubottu> bug 1412060 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Indicator sound fails to start with Asus Xonar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1412060
<ochosi> oh hey ali1234 
<ochosi> (and yeah, in case you were hiding from me, keep hiding, cause i'll ask you about orion again...)
<elfy> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> hey there elfy 
<ali1234> hi
<ali1234> what about orion?
<ochosi> i tested your branch, looks good so far
<ochosi> there are still a few commits missing
<ali1234> i skipped the ones that were later reverted :P
<ochosi> i can point those out to you though if you want
<ali1234> sure
<ochosi> this one is important: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Numix/commit/c119f55afee8adbc38a2d71b5f1ff44c5b50a60e
<ochosi> and there is some flashing in the popover, let me see how i fixed that in greybird...
<ali1234> what's a popover?
<ochosi> that's the menus that look like comic speech bubbles
<ochosi> e.g. gnome-calculator has that
<ali1234> oh, those :(
<ochosi> (of the apps we are shipping)
<ochosi> so add that line, it'll take care of that: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/f4a479bb010cca1051cc9f7bab9c6e53179b16fe#diff-967752fff150bcb489813608b67c3e60R1421
<ali1234> oh yeah, transitions
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> and there are still nasty checkboxes in the menus
<ali1234> how does this css work btw?
<ochosi> best to sync your gtk-widgets-assets with greybird, i fixed that there
<ali1234> what's the priority rule?
<ali1234> i already did that
<ochosi> yeah, but then i fixed greybird some more
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/commit/19624df20674a679c86952a533bfca5074b0fc39
<ochosi> i think i need a specific example for your question
<ochosi> are there competing/duplicate styles?
<ali1234> if i write * { transition: none !important; } will it disable all transitions globally?
<ochosi> afaik the one that comes later in the code overrides the previous one
<ochosi> hm, right. with !important that might override everything
<ali1234> do elements have default styles?
<ochosi> but i'm not using that at all
<ali1234> if i supply a completely empty css file what happens?
<ochosi> not sure, adwaita might have (it's now baked into gtk3 as default)
<ochosi> then you get adwaita
<ochosi> as before you would've gotten raleigh
<ochosi> lucky for you, adwaita is fairly close to orion
<ali1234> you know how css works in browsers right?
<ali1234> the most specific rule wins
<ochosi> well, this is not the same css (at least not yet)
<ochosi> yeah, that should also work here, at least i was presuming that when saying the later one counts
<ochosi> i was assuming you had two identical rules
<ali1234> that would be silly :)
<ochosi> well, i said i need an example, i thought that made it clear i had no idea what you were talking about :)
<ali1234> but the problem is that a generic rule like * {} will always be the least specific
<ali1234> if adwaita is built in, then which rule wins, the built in ones or a completely generic one like * {}
<ali1234> do the built in styles automatically have lowest priority?
<ali1234> that would be the sensible thing but this is gtk we are talking about
<ochosi> i think whatever you put in the theme wins, but tbh i haven't started out with a blank theme in ages...
<ochosi> yeah, that would be the most sensible and what i assumed so far
<ochosi> but yeah, as you said, this is gtk
<ochosi> ali1234: not sure what other commits you might be missing. since you renamed some of them, it might be best if you yourself skim greybird for missing ones
<ochosi> the catfish one would be useful, but you can use the one i wrote for Numix, it's shorter than Greybird's and should do it for Orion
<ali1234> looking through the theme there's a lot of rules that look... pointless
 * ochosi shrugs
<ochosi> we're working on a SASS rewrite, that'll clean up the code big time
<ochosi> so far, it has just grown when people tried to fix stuff
<ochosi> so basically, with every gtk3 release since gtk3.6
<ochosi> weee, corner-tiling in xfwm4
<pleia2> knome: I already added the meeting to the calendar so now there are 2 :)
<knome> hmm..
<pleia2> (I added it when I scheduled the meeting)
<knome> wonder why i didn't see that
<knome> deleted the other one
<knome> guess i should make calendars are synced from now on
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> anybody else hate when images in planet ubuntu span over the content area?
<pleia2> yeah, I told the community team to make the code we're using for planet be in a public place so we could submit patches against it to fix things like that, mhall119 said he'd work on it
<pleia2> this exists, but we can't do MPs on it I think https://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-isd-hackers/ubuntu-website/light-planet-theme2
<knome> we surely can
<pleia2> oh ok
<knome> but doing it the right way is an arts of itself
<knome> or creating a branch that lets us do a merge proposal, to put it other way..
<pleia2> he said "I'm asking the web-team to get this put into a proper LP project so we can start taking those patches popey mentioned"
<pleia2> so I wasn't sure
<knome> right
<knome> anyway, you can technically create a MP for any branch in LP
<knome> if you know how to do it
<knome> that's not the problem :)
<pleia2> well, first problem was finding that link :)
<Unit193> knome: I'd have to read planet Ubuntu for that.
<brainwash> ochosi: finally something works -> last comment in "the" xfpm report
<ochosi> brainwash: you mean late-locking?
<brainwash> ochosi: yes, we need to stay on vt7 the whole time, and only switch to vt8 on resume
<Unit193> Yes.
<ochosi> Unit193: ?
<brainwash> otherwise strange things will happen
<ochosi> yeah, this method was just previously criticised for not being "safe enough", otherwise i guess we'd have set it as default all along
<ochosi> and yeah, as you pointed out, a direct call for late-locking might be needed
<brainwash> mmh, won't this even make logind-handle-lid-switch=true obsolete?
<brainwash> which is our fix for the blank screen bug
<ochosi> well, not really, since late-locking is an option, not compulsory
<ochosi> and it did work for many people, just not for all
<brainwash> it does work, but the implementation is incomplete in xfpm/lls
<brainwash> meaning some use cases are broken
<sidi> why would you create a Member of Parliament?
 * sidi lurks back into the darkness.
<brainwash> ochosi: so, late-locking needs to be re-implemented, similar to how it reacts to the logind dbus suspend/resume signals
<brainwash> ochosi: some way to ensure that it 1) locks the user session 2) switches to the greeter screen
<brainwash> but not in 1 step
<brainwash> bluesabre: can you do the packaging for bug 1292290 (trusty, maybe utopic)?
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings "Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> we just need to pick this http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/543/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml
<brainwash> and sync this update xml to trusty/utopic
<brainwash> there were no other changes, only my keybind fixes
<brainwash> I'll write the SRU then
<bluesabre> ochosi: will be working on that tonight
<Unit193> Ach dangit.  What did you folks decide on ubiquity?  I want to get rid of this ubiquity/ directory already. :P
<Unit193> xfdesktop good enough?
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> whatever works at this point... if xfdesktop can work, let's do what it takes to make it so
<knome> Unit193, you can do merge proposals for both options
<knome> well i heard feh would have some pros.
<knome> like not being able to access the deskop
<knome> +t
<Unit193> knome: "Double" the work, so not really looking to do that.
<bluesabre> brainwash: will take care of that probably tonight, go ahead and document the SRU
<knome> Unit193, i know, i was just kidding.
<bluesabre> Unit193: if we have the xfdesktop fix, let's take that route :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Fantastic, want a diff to review before I do something with it?
<bluesabre> we'll need a month to merge it into ubiquity proper anyway ;)
<bluesabre> yes please
<bluesabre> y'all keep me busy :)
<knome> of course
<knome> consider what the situation would be like if we didn't have somebody with upload rights
<knome> ugh.
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://paste.openstack.org/show/CXWFBGiAJGtUvka8KtCS/
<Unit193> bluesabre: Keep in mind, any comments on style are good, I don't know python a lick.
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i'm still trying not to remember what that was like...
<Unit193> ochosi: We can reenact it.
<ochosi> Unit193: ok, you start by filing a MR against ubiquity!
<knome> ;)
 * Unit193 stabs ochosi.
 * ochosi bleeds and says "aaaaaaarggh..."
<ochosi> (with which i'm ofc referring to the famous castle of "aaaaaaarggh...")
<knome> :P
<ochosi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlIz0q8aWpA (it's aramaic! ofc!)
<bluesabre> Unit193: looks good
<Unit193> Oh right, what's that bug number?
<ochosi> Unit193: linked to v-bugs blueprint
<Unit193> Alright, hit a page on the wiki and the error message is "No tienes permisos para editar esta pÃ¡gina."
<ochosi> not logged in?
<Unit193> Right, but I'm still in America, you'd think it'd give me a message I could read. :P
<bluesabre> No necesitas editar esta pÃ¡gina
<ochosi> Unit193: wait, you did read that! you were even able to write it in here
<bluesabre> haha
<Unit193> :3
<Unit193> OK, did it for you: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubiquity/xfdesktop_background/+merge/247076
<Unit193> (http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/234/137/5c4.jpg)
<ochosi> Unit193: did you request bluesabre and me to review directly when submitting the MR or after submitting in a second step?
<Unit193> ochosi: When submitting, why?
<ochosi> uh-oh :/
<Unit193> Problem, officer?
<ochosi> if you do that, the default team isn't subscribed and then it doesn't show up in the sponsors queue
<ochosi> found out about that yesterday
<ochosi> even folks in u-desktop didn't know about that
<Unit193> Meh.
<ochosi> not sure how you can best fix that
<knome> subscribe the default team?
<ochosi> either manually subscribe the ubuntu installer team (or whoever else would be in charge by default)
<ochosi> or resubmit
<ochosi> knome: well i'm not sure whether option 1) makes it show up in the sponsors queue
<ochosi> but it's worth a try
<knome> why wouldn't it
<ochosi> i dunno, there are some issues with the sponsors queue
<knome> heh
<knome> sherlock
<knome> ;)=
<ochosi> it's not picking up everything it should
<ochosi> well, you go ahead and talk to dholbach about that again if you want
<knome> i don't see any reason why LP wouldn't inform the team if you ask for a review from them
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> yeah, but if Unit193 asks me and bluesabre for a review, the MR still won't show up in the sponsors queue
<knome> whether other triggers, like adding stuff to external queues, happen, is a different thing
<ochosi> even if either of us had upload rights for ubiquity
<knome> ochosi, of course since sponsores aren't asked for a review
<knome> -e
<bluesabre> just sub ubuntu-sponsors
<bluesabre> its a good way to annoy them to respond
<knome> yes..
<Unit193> I was going to go for xnox. :P
<bluesabre> :>
<ochosi> good call :_)
<bluesabre> or dholbach, he likes us lately
<bluesabre> laney too
<Unit193> I just need a MOTU, not core-dev.
<ochosi> xubuntu-team is everybody's darling
<knome> i guess people have lately started noticing how well we are organized
<knome> go ochosi ;>
<Unit193> I thought we were the redheaded stepchild.
<ochosi> Unit193: we are, but people are taking pity on us
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-21
<bluesabre> blueheaded I thought
<knome> i thought greenheaded http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic260187_md.jpg
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Also, recent update of Numix did fix the indicators in VM.
<bluesabre> yay
<ochosi> knome: ouch
<knome> ochosi, what? :)
<ochosi> Unit193: that is the exact same patch i tried back in the day when you first came up with this?
<Unit193> Uhhh, yes to the no with a maybe on top.
<ochosi> Unit193: so you wanna ask xnox for a review too?
<ochosi> or the ubuntu installer team or someone?
<Unit193> Likely a good idea.
<Unit193> Installer team is default, so hit that up.
<Unit193> Do we want an ACK from zequence and mythbuntu?
<bluesabre> "hi mythbuntu, do you like your black login background?"
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> haha
<Unit193> Haha. :D
<bluesabre> "Yes, leave it."
<ochosi> i'd say it's enough if we have to wait for xnox to look...
<pleia2> knome: any of these sticker shots good to use? https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2
<knome> black is the new black
<knome> yes, this https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/16327683452/
<pleia2> k
<pleia2> hahah
<ochosi> weeee, we're handing out cats to our testers!
<pleia2> that's my favorite too <3
<knome> on a more serious note, i like either one that has the colors "right", eg. the ones with a white bg
 * ochosi also wants to stick one to the back of his laptop
<knome> maybe the latter one is better in composition
<knome> -> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/16327817801/
<Unit193> Sooo, going to box up a cat, and stick it in the mail for a couple weeks? 0_o
<pleia2> knome: ok, wfm
<knome> why put it in a box, just staple the stamp on the cat
<ochosi> knome: yeah, that one, but needs a bit of retouching maybe
 * knome hides
<knome> ochosi, thanks for volunteering ;)
<ochosi> gah
<knome> pleia2, tbh, just a pile of stickers on a table would be good
<knome> it doesn't need to look organized
 * ochosi will wait for that cat that Unit193 just put in the mail...
<knome> you can even slap them down in a way you don't have to have any of the table visible if you wish
<pleia2> knome: but I just organized them! :)
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> awwh :D
<knome> well i'm sorry... :(
<ochosi> pleia2: throw them on the floor! throw them across the whole room!
<knome> damn. photos of beer bottles
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> i want beer
<pleia2> me too
<pleia2> ok, let me try a few other ones
 * pleia2 back to photo box
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> ok, refresh the flickr url, there are 4 more
<pleia2> ALL MESSY
<knome> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/16327683452/ still shows a cat
<knome> :|
<pleia2> <3
<knome> me likey
<knome> i probably like the one with the blue xubuntu logo completely visible most
<knome> but i'm not very partial
<knome> let our XPL choose
 * pleia2 goes to clean up stickers
<knome> lol
<knome> polish them with wax!
<knome> pleia2, i'm wondering if we should make the blog title "Win free Xubuntu stickers!"
<pleia2> knome: probabl :)
<knome> or "Win Xubuntu stickers!"
<pleia2> probably too
<knome> more exciting than the current one..
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> there, all organized again
<knome> hehe
<knome> what if you tried one more messed up photo
<knome> >:)
<knome> (just kidding)
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> woo I even managed to fold up the cube properly
<knome> nice
<ochosi> bluesabre: are you going to reply to andrew's email? btw, my argument for "stable" would be: "no more features!!" :]
<pleia2> happy to publish this once I know what photo to use
<knome> go with the one i chose ;)
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, will at some point, unless you want to
<pleia2> https://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/16142252590/ this one?
<knome> yeah
<knome> since it's going to be smallish, nobody will notice the blue
<knome> *blur
<knome> if you open it in gimp, autocolor it or sth
<knome> if not, then fine :)
<ochosi> yeah, maybe a bit of whitebalance would do it good
<pleia2> I don't know what that means
<ochosi> but i'm currently on my laptop, so i wouldn't do much good i guess
<knome> pleia2, let me do that for you
<pleia2> knome: thanks :)
<ochosi> \o/ knome does the work!
<pleia2> \o/
<ochosi> go knome ;)
<knome> ochosi, i've done a lot of the work lately :PP
 * ochosi pets knome on the head
<pleia2> knome: I changed the title
<ochosi> pleia2: as a native speaker: is there a grave diff between "pat" and "pet" in this case?
<knome> pleia2, for future reference, in gimp: colors -> auto -> white balance
<pleia2> ochosi: not really
<pleia2> knome: ah :)
<pleia2> I guess petting is more like rubbing and patting is more up and down
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> nasty ple
<pleia2> !
<bluesabre> lol
<pleia2> it was a trap
<knome> ochosi, wasn't it you who pet me?
<ochosi> i'll keep that in mind
 * ochosi washs his mouth with soap
<knome> something's lagging
<ochosi> it's not my petting
<knome> oh, just a visaul lag on thunar's file progress win
<knome> pleia2, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/16142252590_9e5fa0bd31_whitebalance.jpg
<pleia2> wow, neat
<ochosi> knome: http://xkcd.com/612/
<knome> pleia2, i did what i just said above, then edit -> fade levels to 90% since it became *really* white
 * pleia2 whitebalance all the things
<knome> you might want to check what looks the best manually when tweaking
<pleia2> :)
<knome> yes, adjusting photo color levels... what a waste of time
<knome> i mean a what a form of art!
<pleia2> shall I add this to post now?
<knome> efm
<knome> ehhh
<knome> wfm
<knome> maybe cut down the original resolution
<pleia2> okie
<knome> i don't remember what our max file size was :P
<knome> probably either 4 or 8
<knome> in the future, the max size we will need will be 1400 in width
<knome> no photos are ever going to be shown in bigger size than that
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/?p=2921&preview=true
<pleia2> or somewhere else?
<knome> that works
<knome> hmm
<knome> well
<knome> maybe after how can i participate
<knome> the rest are boring stuff
<knome> but that's important
<pleia2> ok, draft saved with moved
<knome> ++
<pleia2> alright, I will publish my tomorrow morning and social media it
<knome> thanks
 * knome is still considering the title
<knome> "Win Xubuntu stickers by testing!" ?
<pleia2> feels a bit odd
<knome> just telling them to win them is a bit misleading too
<knome> but works if we want to get as many views as possible
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> New QA Incentive: Win Xubuntu stickers!
<knome> i was thinking something like "Help the QA team and win Xubuntu stickers!"
<pleia2> that's good
<bluesabre> elfy, brainwash, ochosi: just uploaded a refreshed patch for xfce4-power-manager.  This further improves the light-locker integration we added previously.  We removed "Enable" as its really unneccessary (lock settings can be individually disabled, but lock still works from whisker). The logind-handle-lid-switch property is also updated now with this patch. If the power manager settings are set to Suspend on lid close and lock on suspend, 
<bluesabre> this property will be true.
<ochosi> one the one hand, we need standard testing of locking and suspending
<ochosi> but some laptop testing with lids would be good too
<bluesabre> brainwash: will work on the packaging for your MRs when I get home tonight
<bluesabre> Unit193: will get to the -extras stuff hopefully tonight as well
<Unit193> Great.
<brainwash> bluesabre: bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> bluesabre: a refreshed xfpm patch, good news :) now we only need to fix/improve light-locker to not break the test case "lid close action: lock"
<brainwash> so that it does not trigger the blank screen bug
<elfy> bluesabre: thanks - I assume that's to the ppa? assuming so when I get back I'll sort some sort of mail to the list out for testing it 
<elfy> ochosi: ^^
<ochosi> elfy: i actually presume that upload went directly to vivid
<ochosi> also don't see any packages building in staging
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/1.4.2-0ubuntu5
<elfy> ochosi: ok - not looked at all - lunch time :)
<elfy> does that mean that people using staging will have to disable it? 
<Unit193> Well it won't/doesn't have the updated patch.
<elfy> nice answer to a different question :p
<bluesabre> elfy, Unit193, refreshed the patch for the PPA... If we can fix the builds, it will have it too
<Unit193> Hah, was right about to. :P
<bluesabre> Did it right after uploading this morning :-)
<Unit193> Think a translation update will happen soon enough? :P
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> There, I cheated.  Will revert too.
<Unit193> bluesabre, elfy: PPA has it too now.
<bluesabre> Cool, I'd it going to build this time?
<Unit193> Already has.
<bluesabre> Awesome
 * bluesabre high fives Unit193
<Unit193> o/\o
<Unit193> bluesabre: Going to add the hack in for -settings too?  I'd think there should be an actual fix though. :/
<astraljava> Hey guys, just recently installed Xubuntu 14.10 on an older Acer laptop that I'm using now. Can anyone verify that the window maximise keyboard shortcut works only for the ongoing session?
<astraljava> The default (Alt+F7) didn't work for me initially, so I changed it to Shift+Control+F7. That worked for that session. I shut down the laptop for the night, and today it's not working, until I set it to another combo.
<astraljava> I only found older bugs related to keyboard shortcuts, didn't match to this behaviour.
<knome> what do you mean with "ongoing session"?
<knome> but you are correct, that shortcut doesn't work for me either..
<knome> you mean it only works when you (re)set it, and only for that session?
<astraljava> Yes, if I reset it to a new value, then it works until I reboot. Could even be until a logout.
<knome> file a new bug
<knome> (or see if one is filed in xfce bugzilla)
<knome> unless you did :)
<astraljava> Oh, right, only checked LP. Cheers. :)
<brainwash> lol
<brainwash> bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> that's what I am trying to fix
<astraljava> And apparently used funny search terms. Thanks! :)
<brainwash> :)
<knome> astraljava, you're still a bit rusty, but that rust will fall off when you persist with contributions ;)
<astraljava> Hehe, indeed. :D
<astraljava> Well, it's been a while. ;)
<knome> that happens
 * knome makes some coffee
<knome> astraljava, want some? come get ;)
<astraljava> Would love to, but can't. Need to prepare my presentation for an english course at the uni for Friday. :/
<knome> ooh, back to studying?
<astraljava> Thanks for the invitation, though! Hopefully won't take too long until I can. :)
<knome> yep!
<astraljava> Yeah, trying to get the degree during 2015.
<knome> nice
<ochosi> astraljava: could it be this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1292290
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed]
<knome> ochosi, confirmed already ;)
<knome> did you look at the backlog at all?
<pleia2> good morning!
<knome> hullo pleia2 
<pleia2> gonna publish this blog post before work
<knome> goodie
<pleia2> knome: we good with ... uh
<pleia2> forgot the title you said
<pleia2> Help the QA team and win Xubuntu stickers!
<knome> yes
<pleia2> ok, on it
<elfy> Help the Community with testing and win Xubuntu stickers
<knome> works too
<elfy> might be better - because currently most people ignore the QA team ... 
<elfy> makes it about them instead :)
<pleia2> oh, sec, I'll update
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/help-the-community-with-testing-and-win-xubuntu-stickers/
<pleia2> ta-da!
<knome> i'll tweet
 * elfy thanks everyone who's had a hand in that :)
<knome> elfy, you too
<elfy> ty knome :)
<knome> tweeted
<pleia2> g+ed and facebooked
<pleia2> knome: next time we tweet about this, include @unixstickers in the tweet since sometimes they retweet us :)
<pleia2> next time is in like 10 days
<knome> yes... should do that
<knome> pleia2, https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/557956026767785984
<pleia2> that's good for now too :)
<knome> yep
<knome> time to upload some images to twitter too, seeing 12.04 countdown banners there
<knome> what about tweeting the sticker photo?
<pleia2> maybe do that on feb 2nd or so
<knome> heh
<knome> sure
<pleia2> woo, unixstickers retweeted the first tweet too
<pleia2> mission accomplished
<elfy> \o/ 
<knome> nice
<elfy> pleia2: can you remember off the top of your head if you had image burning issues during the lts cycle or was it the last one? 
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah, like Pasi already mentioned, it was handed to me on a silver plate. :) Thanks, and sorry for the noise!
<pleia2> elfy: I have weird issues here and there every cycle, usually I can get one of the two tools to work
<elfy> aak ok :)
<pleia2> my grumpyness this cycle is that one really is broken and I'm seriously annoyed at the whole situation and how useless the docs are - they either say "use testdrive" or skip over it entirely ("now you burn a dvd or make a usb stick, then...")
<elfy> just trying to get some sort of sense from it all prior to the ugj 
<knome> my grumpyness is that the QA wiki is too broad to be digestable by anyway
<knome> *anybody
<knome> basically we should just reboot it completely
<elfy> and if nothing else a - 'do it like this for this tool'
<knome> which is why i suggested that we quickly create some developer docs
<knome> that cover the xubuntu development related things
<knome> and we can then slowly propagate that back into the main QA stuff
<elfy> knome: I'm kind of in limbo currently - but assuming that I surface from that I'm of the opinion that we should do stuff for us and have it on the website for us 
<elfy> and I see you're of the same opinion :D
<knome> what i think is...
<pleia2> :)
<knome> we should create another branch for docs
<knome> devdocs
<knome> and get that set up
<knome> and get devdocs.xubuntu.org set up
<knome> the same way as docs.
<knome> and get on with it
<knome> those should describe a lot of things that are in the processes area currently
<elfy> well if we do it like that then I'll not be doing it 
<knome> including the minutiae on how to join IRC channels and stuff
<elfy> not trying to work out how to do it from within LP 
<knome> even if that's not ideal for everybody, for the project it's important that it is managed in a branch
<elfy> why?
<elfy> what does it give us?
<elfy> none of the wiki pages are managed like that currently
<pleia2> I agree with elfy here, the wiki is slow and creaky, but much easier here
<knome> history with diffs, ability for everybody to file changes
<elfy> both of which is there in the wiki
<elfy> more or less
<knome> i guess ultimately i'd like to not have to manage stuff like that
<knome> QA stuff should be maintained by the QA team
<knome> and that should work
<elfy> yea right
<knome> it's insane that every flavor writes their own developer documentation
<knome> and then they are manager badly because there's no resources or time to do that
<elfy> and for the last 2 or 3 cycles the QA for us has been 1 person for 90% of the time
<knome> and then we have 10 different guides which are all crappy
<knome> that too
<elfy> s/qa/qa team
<knome> but i think the task to fix the QATeam wiki is too much for anybody
<knome> or any team
<knome> or any collection of people
<pleia2> insane is why we haven't done it, but I don't think we have a choice anymore, the core QA team is unresponsive to our needs
<elfy> then we should worry about our own issues 
<knome> pleia2, not really...
<knome> they just don't have the time to fix this and that
 * knome looks at QATeam
<pleia2> knome: I wasn't saying "why" I was saying that they are :)
<elfy> I don't see any logical reason for us not to use the wiki to build our own docs
<knome> they aren't unresponsive
<knome> elfy, i guess we can do that, but my argument stays; it's insane to duplicate work
<pleia2> knome: haha, well, strictly speaking they "respond" by saying "oh yeah, we should fix that" but I meant unresponsive in that they can't follow through
<knome> pleia2, maybe...
<knome> what are the main things that we are lacking from QA dev docs?
<elfy> knome: you make no sense then - 5 minutes ago you wanted it all in a branch somewhere - where contrary to what you say "ability for everybody to file changes" - not it's not - it's a nightmare for anyone who's not got the slightest idea what's going on with a branch
<pleia2> first is that they're so confusing I can never find anything, no planning to layout
<elfy> anyway - happy to have the conversation - but later - kid's wanting stuff time of the day 
<pleia2> second is their strange focus on testdrive (and with that, virtualized testing), that I don't think anyone even uses
<pleia2> and we want to encourage physical hardware testing too
<pleia2> glossing over creation of USB sticks is easy when they are focused on virtual testing
<elfy> pleia2: tbh I think that's a bit of a hangover, I've not seen anyone actually push it for ages
<elfy> bbl
<pleia2> yep, it's old
<knome> pleia2, no i mean "what kind of documentation should we write?"
<knome> not "what is wrong with the current documentation?"
<pleia2> knome: oh, I thought you asked what the current docs were lacking
<knome> elfy, creating and writing dev docs aren't for everybody, you have to know how things are done before you contribute to them - we disagree, but i can live with the wiki
<knome> elfy, just let's not let the minutiae or disagreements in technology get in the way of helping people :)
<pleia2> so I shall reword: proper structure, focus on hardware, USB stick info, guidance on using virtualbox directly
<knome> well
<knome> if we aren't poking the QA Team wiki
<knome> you want:
<knome> - instructions on how to create USB sticks
<knome> and
<knome> - how to use virtualbox in testing
<knome> right?
<knome> are those the two things that would answer the questions everybody are asking?
<pleia2> we can link to existing docs to some extent for USB, but we need to have our own info around that - update with existing bugs in usb tools, remind people to try the other if the first doesn't work
<pleia2> I think so
<knome> elfy, does that sound correct to you?
<pleia2> time for work
<knome> hf
<elfy> knome: I'm happy to help people do what we want - I just disagree that changing everything so it's dealt with via something that a very few people will bother with is completely the wrong thing to do :)
<knome> elfy, i understand that, but as i said, i don't expect "anybody" to be qualified to write dev docs anyway
<elfy> good - but as it stands we CAN use the wiki - anyone
<elfy> and that's good enough
<elfy> for purpose
<elfy> what we've got though is a bunch of wiki's that don't actually work for US 
<elfy> biab
<jjfrv8> ochosi, new xfpm is misbehaving on my desktop. I've got the black screen bug when I set to lock on suspend.
<jjfrv8> not only that, it's not even suspending anymore, it's just blanking the screen
<elfy> ochosi: confirmed jjfrv8 issue here 
<elfy> knome: I'm still of the opinion that we should create our own information for our 'testers' 
<knome> elfy, probably.
<elfy> we can be more specific about bug reporting for one thing
<knome> but i don't think it's a bad idea to improve the general wiki
<elfy> oh not saying that :)
<elfy> always good to improve generic stuff when and where it's possible 
<knome> yep
<knome> i'd rather build on that
<knome> than duplicate all the work
<elfy> I'm not really sure what you mean tbh
<knome> i mean that if there is *something* we can reuse from the main stuff, let's do it, even if it means some work :)
<elfy> there's no way that putting Xubuntu specific stuff on the main wiki is going to work
<knome> that isn't what i meant
<elfy> oh right - two pronged attack ?
<elfy> yea - got that :)
<knome> i meant that if we can say "here, look at the QA team wiki first for basic, and then come back here", it'd be good
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> I got that eventually :D
<knome> yep
<elfy> though I would rather come back here was go to there for specific info :)
<knome> mhm
<azzenovic> I would like to see a parole build with harfbuzz support in the next xubuntu releases.in fact,it solves RTL languages issues 
<sidi> knome, hey i had an idea this morning
<sidi> about the security doc
<sidi> are you guys able to pull a link to some survey on your existing doc? 
<sidi> you could try and get users to provide feedback on the existing one for now
<sidi> and compare later
<sidi> with the new guidance, see if it's useful
<elfy> I'd completely forgotten what a default trusty looks like 
<jjfrv8> ochosi, more info on the xfpm problems... I keep getting this notificaton: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/xfpmbug.php
<jjfrv8> and I can no longer change the System settings: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/xfpmbug02.php
<elfy> I'm not seeing anything like that 
<jjfrv8> hmm
<jjfrv8> bbl
<elfy> ali1234: whereabouts does ted gould live on irc? 
<ali1234> #ubuntu-desktop
<elfy> awesome thanks :)
<elfy> I'll try and grab him about this indicator thing of mine - he decided it was pulseaudio, but I'm not sure about that
<elfy> and I see the same thing with a livesession on this hardware too 
<ali1234> have you tested this with a clean install?
<Unit193> elfy: Do I need to do a core test for you too here?
<elfy> ali1234: not as far as actually installing it - but I can't imagine it'll be different, livesession crashes with it as well 
<elfy> Unit193: ?
<ali1234> livesession is even better i guess
<ali1234> have you reported it on the iso tracker? :P
<elfy> perhaps I'll just report it from the live session 
<ali1234> that's definitely what i'd do
<elfy> ali1234: not yet - not reported or run any tests lately tbh
<ali1234> no one can complain about user misconfiguration that way
<elfy> yea :)
<elfy> not sure why he says pulse isn't running tbh 
<elfy> anyway - enough of that - thanks :)
<ali1234> report it using "ubuntu-bug sound" or whatever... the thing that gathers all sound card information
<ali1234> ubuntu-bug -s audio
<elfy> I don't know that I need to - the bug tool pops up as soon as I look :)
<ali1234> yes but that will report a bug against indicator-sound, without the sound card debugging stuff
<ali1234> it's clearly a hardware issue of some kind
<elfy> oh right - ok :)
<elfy> or let the auto tool do it's thing and then add the other manually? 
<ali1234> that would be quite a lot of work, i don't even know where it digs all the stuff up form
<elfy> mmm ok 
<ali1234> let me show you a bug reported this way...
<elfy> what I did notice in tonights fiddling with images - same hardware - not a problem in utopic
<ali1234> i suspect that pulseaudio changed slightly n the way it handles a relatively rare type of hardware and the indicator is confused
<elfy> you'd have more success at guessing at that than me ;)
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-driver/+bug/1080282
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1080282 in alsa-driver (Ubuntu) "[System Product Name, VIA VT1708S, Green Line Out, Rear] No sound at all" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> ali1234: ok - thanks :)
<ali1234> as you can see it includes a large amount of debugging information
<elfy> yep - I'll do it like that, the only thing being that all I see here is that the indicator fails to work 
<elfy> soundcard is fine in itself, pavucontrol works fine 
<Unit193> elfy: Was wondering if I needed/should do another core test, since that's kind of my responsibility now.
<elfy> might be useful - I did see some comments about issues with the mini.iso somewhere
<elfy> I can do as well - maybe do 1 arch each ?
<Unit193> I see no reason to load you up with another install test really, should be the exact same for both.
<elfy> not too onerous - I just set it off in a vm 
<elfy> but I'd do the 64bit 
<pleia2> elfy and knome - awesome work today in -quality, thank you <3
<elfy> heh 
<elfy> pleia2: I did a bunch of img burn tests today - I'll try and put them together sensibly for you in time for the ugj 
<pleia2> \o/
<elfy> for now - it's up the wooden hill for me :)
<pleia2> I keep downloading dailies, but then not testing them because all of a sudden it's midnight
<elfy> :)
 * pleia2 needs longer days
<knome> pleia2, np
<knome> pleia2, i'll keep on deleting stupid pages ;))
 * pleia2 twitches
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> it's ok, you won't know they existed :P
<elfy> oh yea 
<elfy> talking of which ... 
<pleia2> I just ignored the earlier highlight when you were talking about it
<knome> to be fair, i do redirect some pages that look like they could get linked into
<knome> but not much if there isn't even interlinks in the wiki to those pages
<pleia2> la la la
<knome> and as far as history goes, it's always there for the wiki pages anyway
<knome> ;)=
<elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2014-01-05
<knome> wikis are supposed to be edited by anyone, but that doesn't mean all content is useful ;)
<elfy> that's a mistake ^^
<knome> elfy, which one?
<knome> oh
<knome> you need a rename? :D
<elfy> I did the meeting stuff - the real one is /2015-01-05 which exists as well 
<knome> ok
<knome> i'll delete...
<elfy> don't tell pleia2 apparently :D
<knome> pleia2, shut your eyes and ears
<elfy> right - really off up the wooden hill now :)
<knome> elfy, done
<elfy> thanks knome - meant to mention when I did it - but then it was suddenly 2015-01-06 and I forgot :)
<knome> hehe, yeah...
<knome> that happens too
<knome> no worries
<Unit193> elfy: Alright, sounds fine.
<bluesabre> evening folks
<Unit193> Howdy.
<bluesabre> hey Unit193, how goes?
<Unit193> Neck hurts.  We got more snow. \o/
<Unit193> Went out to eat.
<Unit193> You?
<knome> Unit193, isn't it too cold out for eating if you have snow?
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Unit193 likes his popsicles to stay frozen
<bluesabre> Going all right. Long day at work, getting hungry
<bluesabre> wondering why it takes so long for stable firefox to land in unstable ubuntu http://packages.ubuntu.com/vivid/firefox vs http://packages.ubuntu.com/utopic/firefox
<Unit193> Heh, always does.  Also had to forward port flash, as that's not even in there for vivid.
<brainwash> bluesabre: because the armhf package failed to build
<Unit193> But nobody really cares about that...
<Unit193> Give it to the rest of us!  It's like Hurd in Debian, causes all sorts of bugs, from all 5 people using it.
<brainwash> I got this response "vivid isn't released yet so why worry about it?"
<brainwash> firefox 35 being a security update
<Unit193> Welp, time to do a direct backport in a PPA?
<brainwash> it's available in proposed
<Unit193> Nooot going to add that, but could grab the deb I guess.
<brainwash> oh, so now that we are going with ubiquity + xfdesktop, what about enabling the xfce "kiosk" mode for it?
<brainwash> to disable the right click context menu
<brainwash> and do keybindings work?
<brainwash> could I launch mousepad while the installer is running? ubiquity-dm
<Unit193> Well, for one does it matter?  Not trying to restrict users from doing anything.  And two, if you can only add it in -live, sure.
<bluesabre> Super+T launches terminal from the installer
<brainwash> yes, would be a cosmetic change
<bluesabre> probably  other shortcuts too
<brainwash> let the user have some fun :D
<brainwash> why not play gnome-mines while the installer is doing its job
<bluesabre> because gnome-sudoku is better
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> you could do the same after loading the live session and launching the installer
<brainwash> btw I noticed that gnome-mines has the invisible resize border which makes resizing easier
<bluesabre> probably thanks to CSD maybe?
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> bluesabre: can you please remove xfdesktop from bug 1375893 ? or should it remain in the list?
<ubottu> bug 1375893 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Black background to Try/Install Dialogue" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1375893
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-22
<bluesabre> brainwash: done
<bluesabre> Unit193: question when you're around
<bluesabre> brainwash: since this one came up again today, does it fix the issue for all keyboard shortcuts, or does it only apply to the one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/1292290
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1292290 in xfce4-settings "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not quite here, but still.
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> know a lot about rm_conffile?
<Unit193> A little, man dpkg-maintscript-helper
<Unit193> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/dpkg-maintscript-helper 
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> that answers my question
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193!
<Unit193> Hah, well glad I could help.
<brainwash> bluesabre: the updated keyboard shortcuts file from vivid fixes the maximize action in utopic and the maximize action + workspace actions in trusty
<brainwash> -> everything should be fixed then
<brainwash> (in xubuntu at least)
<bluesabre> alrighty, thanks brainwash
<brainwash> should we pick the patch for bug 1314829 ?
<ubottu> bug 1314829 in ristretto (Ubuntu) ""Set as Wallpaper" doesn't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1314829
<brainwash> it seems to me that there won't be a new ristretto version any time soon
<bluesabre> sure, seems reasonable.  low priority, so poke me about it if its not done in a few days
<brainwash> maybe let debian do the job
<brainwash> but you are right, it's a low priority task
<bluesabre> brainwash: uploaded xubuntu-default-settings for trusty... waiting for approval now.  
<bluesabre> Unit193: did we have an ITP for xfdashboard or soundmenu at any point?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nope.
<Unit193> I can give you a list of xfce4* ones though, and skippy-xd had one, but that's it.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not really sure how to do this either.  It'd make more sense to push xfdash 2.x stable series to Debian, but in Xubuntu we use and it makes sense to use 3.x series.
<ochosi> bluesabre, brainwash: well, some ristretto patches have been merged recently, so might as well do a drive-by git-snapshot instead of integrating the single patch (then we also get other patches and translations). as soon as we get release-rights, there'll be a 0.6.4 though
<ochosi> pleia2, elfy: nice work on the stickers article!
<elfy> morning ochosi 
<elfy> not actually seen it yet
<ochosi> oh :)
<ochosi> well i presumed you were involved there
<elfy> I was here and there :)
<elfy> ochosi bluesabre - did you see the comment from jjfrv8 re "black screen bug when I set to lock on suspend" 
<elfy> I see the same here with the new xfpm too
<ochosi> i did see some of the comments of jjfrv8 
<ochosi> anyway, i'm not entirely sure what sort of permission/polkit? issue he's having there
<ochosi> but that black screen bug might be resolved when resetting xfpm's settings
<ochosi> at least that's where i would start
<ochosi> plus, the light-locker.desktop file in your ~/.config/autostart should be reset not to pass any parameters
<elfy> I don't have a file in there
<ochosi> when did you install vivid?
<elfy> 3 weeks ago perhaps
<ochosi> oh
<Unit193> On the daily or just uploaded?  Shouldn't be much difference I wouldn't think.
<ochosi> hmm, might be that the autostart file is in a system folder still
<ochosi> or it got cleaned out in case you removed light-locker-settings
<elfy> probably :)
<elfy> I'll check it out later from a clean one
<ochosi> either way, maybe a good idea to just do a "apt-get install light-locker --reinstall" to be sure
<ochosi> ok, that's also an option :)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> time for that later today or tomorrow
<elfy> and I'll try and get a call out to test it this weekend
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> i'll be away over the weekend btw, will only return in a week
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> might be around at some points though, but mostly for reading up, likely won't have much time to get things done
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> was following up on our xdg-utils merge today though, so hopefully it'll be merged in the afternoon
<ochosi> then the bug where parole (and others) reset your screensaver time will finally be a thing of the past
<elfy> \o/
<elfy> that one just confused me completely :)
<ochosi> brainwash: in case that xdg-utils MR gets merged today, could you prep the SRU for it? i'll be gone for a week after today
<ochosi> knome: hmm, that -dev wallpaper...
<knome> hmm hmm
 * knome ponders if it gets ready by ochosi pondering
<knome> i can probably look at it later today, but i'll have to leave to meet a client in about an hour, so no can do now
<ochosi> sure, just felt like poking you about it again
<knome> yep, i know it's late
<ochosi> as i mentioned earlier, i'll be more or less gone for a week
<ochosi> so i wanted to poke around before taking off
<knome> starting from what again? :)
<ochosi> tonight
<knome> aha
<knome> well bluesabre is around, we can organize a surprise for you
<knome> (but don't hold your breath)
<ochosi> weeee
<ochosi> knome: any opinion on doing another highlight-color for 15.04?
<ochosi> something teal maybe
<knome> personally, i think we've messed up with people's systems enough already
<knome> but otoh, if we did that every cycle...
<knome> i guess i don't have a strong opinion, i'll revert back to the default anyway
<ochosi> yeah, same here
<knome> to try to think it objectively..
<knome> we have playfully shown that customizing is easy... what would the another custom color be for?
<ochosi> the idea was that the highlight color could be a small reference to the release name/animal
<ochosi> but yeah, that could be a problem
<ochosi> many animals are brown
<knome> if it's about being distinct from cycle to cycle, then that might be a good argument
<knome> brown, yeah, and even if we had the most exoticly colored animals, we'd run out of colors "soon"
<knome> or end up redoing similar things
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that is the downside of it
<knome> and i don't knwo if it's worth the maintaining burden
<knome> which is not much by itself, but it happens surely every cycle, and thought has to be put into it...
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> true that
<ochosi> and it potentially makes the wallpaper creation more work
<ochosi> because you might get a weird color of reference
<knome> heh
<ochosi> although that could also be an advantage
<knome> well if it's done before the wallpaper creating has begun, it's not more work
<knome> but it might be limiting creativity
<ochosi> not getting stuck and redoing wallpapers in the same style / color-palette
<ochosi> yeah, well up to you
<knome> yeah well, we can change the wallpaper palette anyway
<ochosi> we can also do it the other way round
<knome> i don't think that should be the deciding factor
<knome> sure, but then we essentially lose the relation to the animal color :)
<ochosi> we could sync the highlight color with the wallpaper palette
<ochosi> yeah, i know, it's just a different idea i just had ;)
<knome> heh
<brainwash> ochosi: will anyone do the packaging for trusty xdg-utils?
<brainwash> what about the recent security patch for xdg-utils? both patches could be bundled
<brainwash> bluesabre: should I subscribe the sru team to the keybind report?
<brainwash> I did not yesterday, because the package was not uploaded yet
<bluesabre> brainwash: I just added them and set the status to "In Progress"
<brainwash> bluesabre: thanks :)
<bluesabre> for the record, vivid might not be a good testing ground for light-locker... I disabled light-locker completely, shut my lid, opened it back up and my whole laptop was frozen...
<bluesabre> screen on, time standing still
<brainwash> uhm.. meh
<brainwash> the kernel could be the cause
<bluesabre> yeah, who knows. If I install the nvidia drivers, I can't get a graphical login and the greeter will run at 96% cpu
<bluesabre> hopefully that's another driver issue, I don't want to have to fix that
<bluesabre> s/driver/kernel
<brainwash> you greeter? my xorg runs at 100% while the graphical user session is active
<brainwash> your
<brainwash> open source radeon driver
<bluesabre> no graphical login, drop to VT1, login, view processes, the lightdm-gtk-greeter binary running at 96%, but only with the nvidia proprietary
<bluesabre> should probably check what its doing with nouveau as well... I'll get to that later today
<brainwash> the greeter package in vivid seems to be rather outdated
<brainwash> or do you run master anyway?
<bluesabre> no updates since then.  Running whats in vivid.  We'll be releasing 1.10/2.0 sometime very soon
<brainwash> new upload will fix some issues
<brainwash> like bug 1410770
<ubottu> bug 1410770 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "corrupted display after login and before desktop loads" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1410770
<bluesabre> ah cool, hadn't kept up with that one
<bluesabre> still catching up to everything I missed
<brainwash> bluesabre: do you have a trusty system available for testing?
<bluesabre> to what extent?  I have a trusty server I can vnc into
<brainwash> just to test random xubuntu stuff
<brainwash> like bug 1365965
<ubottu> bug 1365965 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu Trusty) "[MRE] Please update xfdesktop4 to 4.11.8 in Trusty" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1365965
<brainwash> to make sure that it does not cause anything strange
<brainwash> so that we can finally push this upload to -updates
<brainwash> I did not notice anything strange, and we use 4.11.8 in utopic + vivid
<brainwash> the icon position reset might not be fully fixed, but it does not seem to be worse than in 4.11.6
<bluesabre> we just need to get that fixed, release 4.11.9, and then SRU that in for good measure
<brainwash> should I close the report then?
<bluesabre> or comment saying that its not worse than before and the other fixes warrant an upload, and mark it verification-done
<bluesabre> your call
<bluesabre> gotta run to work
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> cya
<jjfrv8> ochosi, after several reboots and changes to xfpm settings, I am no longer getting the notifications I posted last night
<jjfrv8> however, the machine still won't suspend if I have "lock on suspend" enabled. It does suspend and wake up fine without locking.
<jjfrv8> now when I wait > 1 minute to try to come out of the black screen/non-suspend mode, I get: http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/xfpmbug04.php
<jjfrv8> and my network connection is broken, I can't log out, restart, etc.
<jjfrv8> this morning, I reinstalled light-locker like you suggested and tried things again.  Same symptoms.
<jjfrv8> I can try a clean install on other hardware tonight.
<jjfrv8> no snow day today, gotta go to work :(, bblte
<ochosi> jjfrv8: as bluesabre pointed out today, unfortunately vivid doesnt seem to be the most stable testing ground wrt suspend. even without xfpm or light-locker we're getting troubles with suspending, so it could also be related to the kernel or graphics drivers
<ochosi> i would suggest to hang in there and as soon as things have stablized a bit more (which they'll hopefully do), we can get to more testing...
<ochosi> brainwash: good news, xdg-utils just got sponsored
<ochosi> has that security patch you're referring to been already packaged for xdg-utils in ubuntu?
<ochosi> haha, nice fail on the release-ml. "alpha 1 released"
<brainwash> ochosi: I don't know what ubuntu is doing with that security patch, or if they even know about it
<brainwash> they should know, because debian patched it some days ago
<ochosi> from what i see xdg-utils isn't too well maintained
<elfy> ochosi: don't laugh too much - I put me down for doing the community side of it for beta 1
<ochosi> so i guess if you want it, you'd have to do something about it
<elfy> and if I'm missing I out you as second :D
<ochosi> elfy: that's very nice of you
<elfy> s/out/put
<ochosi> oh, that's not very nice of you
<elfy> heh
<ochosi> i'll remember to be offline around b1 then ;)
<elfy> well it was kind of - better had as wxl did this one - and riddell did the last - there'd be no-one to do the next ... 
<ochosi> i'd say the bar is not too high for you though, considering that a2 was just announced as a1 ;)
<ochosi> anyway, time to grab a coffe
<ochosi> e
<elfy> heh
<brainwash> ochosi: can't find anything in launchpad regarding https://www.debian.org/security/2015/dsa-3131
<ochosi> well it's 4 days old, and as i said, xdg-utils isn't very actively maintained
<ochosi> which is illustrated by the fact that i have two consecutive patches in it
<brainwash> but there is a ubuntu security team
<ochosi> with half a year diff
<ochosi> well, feel free to bring it up with them
<brainwash> if we have to inform the team about this stuff, then something is wrong
<ochosi> brainwash: why? they're people too
<brainwash> people who read the debian security announcements
<brainwash> anyway, I filed a report
<brainwash> ochosi: ubuntu is not affected, because xdg-utils is old and does not even include the commit which introduces the vulnerability 
<ochosi> haha, nice
<ochosi> either way, if you have time to prep the SRU for xdg-utils, that'd be great
<brainwash> will anyone do the packaging for the timeout patch?
<ochosi> packaging?
<brainwash> drop the obsolete upstream patch, include the timeout one, create a package
<ochosi> well, it has been sponsored/uploaded
<ochosi> so yeah, obviously it has been packaged
<brainwash> the SRU team will do it for trusty/utopic?
<ochosi> yes, that's the idea
<ochosi> cause we don't have upload rights for xdg-utils anyhow
<brainwash> ok, I'll do the sru then
<ochosi> thanks a bunch
<ochosi> i gotta go in the next 20mins
<brainwash> but first I'll test the vivid package, so it won't be today
<ochosi> then i'll be back next week
<ochosi> yeah, that's ok
<brainwash> ok :)
<ochosi> my absence is one reason why i wanted to ask you to look into it
<ochosi> just so that things keep moving forward
<ochosi> also, you know the bug/patch, so you can formulate the sru
<ochosi> so yeah, thanks!
<knome> brainwash, if you need help with the SRU (in the case you get stuck), you can ask bluesabre or me
<brainwash> that should not be the problem, I was just afraid that I would have to prepare the packages for trusty/utopic too
<brainwash> which is a bit messy
<brainwash> ochosi: bad news, xdg-screensaver is broken in vivid
<brainwash> not my part, but the DE detection
<brainwash> somehow caused by dropping the obsolete upstream patch
<elfy> evening ali1234 
<elfy> so I did run audio bug collect from a live-session, then changed it afterwards to point at indicator-sound instead of alsa
<ali1234> looks good
<elfy> good 
<elfy> referred to the other bug - so I guess anything that the old one included they can find
<elfy> not much else I can do :)
<ali1234> you could post the crash report for indicator-sound as well
<elfy> didn't appear to do that this time - or I confused it by running ubuntu-bug almost immediately 
<elfy> but it is easily reproduced :)
<ali1234> it's still there in /var/crash
<ali1234> i can see the whoopsie errors in your dmesg
<elfy> that dmesg is from livesession 
<elfy> as I said easily reproduced - just boot the livesession
<ali1234> let's see if there's anything on e.u.c.
<ali1234> there is a trick you can do to make apport send reports to launchpad instead of e.u.c.
<ali1234> can you tell me approximates the last time you submitted a report?
<elfy> which is?
<elfy> umm
<elfy> it was either sometime between 7 and 9:30 am or sometime after 4 pm today 
<ali1234> 64 bit?
<ali1234>          FLAGRANT SYSTEM ERROR        Computer over.        Virus = Very Yes.     
<ali1234> there are no reports for those time periods :(
<ali1234> and now the site is down
<elfy> was definitely today and I was out between 9:30 and 4 
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/150476/how-do-i-submit-a-full-bug-report-with-crash-dump-and-steps-to-reproduce
<elfy> LP says 4 hours ago actually 
<ali1234> if apport is refusing to send the report to the right place
<ali1234> no, i don't mean bug report on launchpad
<ali1234> i mean when was the last time you sent as automatic error report (which takes no user input other than clicking "send")
<elfy> oh - I bet I forgot to do that to this install 
<elfy> I did ... 
<elfy> ok - done that and also unignored the crash
<elfy> ali1234: so I did those things, restarted the indicator, got the pop-up, which is now reporting it to launchpad 
<elfy> shall I actually do that - again 
<elfy> well I did - currently it's set to private for some reason but bug 1413747
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1413747 could not be found
<brainwash> ali1234: I was using your xfwm4 zooming feature and noticed that there is a 1px line at the bottom which is not zoomed
<brainwash> 1680x1050, but the zooming area is only 1680x1049
<ali1234> that is impossible
<ali1234> unless you mean it is just a black line
<ali1234> even then, still impossible
<ali1234> zooming only modifies the transformation parameters
<brainwash> interesting, no the it's the actual screen content
<brainwash> -the
<ali1234> it doesn't touch the source and destination regions at all
<ali1234> it zooms the entire composited buffer
<ali1234> drawing part of it unzoomed would require two drawing operations and there is only one
<ali1234> it could be not redrawing that part of the screen i suppose
<ali1234> just leaving the old contents
<ali1234> but i think even that is impossible
<brainwash> restarted the session and it's still reproducible
<ali1234> i can't reproduce it (obviously)
<brainwash> I placed a text editor with some text at the bottom to easy spot this strange glitch
<ali1234> what happens if you use a video player?
<brainwash> it does not update the 1px line while zooming
<ali1234> hmm
<brainwash> driver related?
<ali1234> probably not
<ali1234> well, maybe
<ali1234> basically i have no idea
<brainwash> it's easy to test, so maybe someone else could try and test it
<brainwash> I don't know if it worked properly at some point, because I've accidentally triggered zooming and noticed it instantly, because there was some text at the bottom
<brainwash> ali1234: works fine with the open source driver
<brainwash> interesting.. I lock the screen of my session in VT7 via light-locker. now, the unlock screen aka gtk greeter also spawns in VT7
<brainwash> bluesabre: ^ ?
<brainwash> if I unlock and lock again, then things will be broken
<bluesabre> that's a new one
<brainwash> did they break lightdm? :)
<brainwash> so you can spawn the greeter in the same VT?
<brainwash> currently it's a bug and should not happen, but it seems to work somehow, well temporary
<brainwash> ali1234: bug 1413784 any idea?
<ubottu> bug 1413784 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Window Border Corruption on Systems Using Intel Integrated Graphics" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1413784
<ali1234> graphical corruption is very common with intel chipsets
<brainwash> yes, especially with the "new" accel method SNA
<brainwash> fixed upstream https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80033
<ubottu> Freedesktop bug 80033 in Driver/intel "[sna] Occasional artifacts on window borders (theme dependent)" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<brainwash> reporter is using 14.04
<bluesabre> brainwash: lightdm tends to break alot during development cycle... usually test-mode is gone until after last beta
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-23
<mikodo> Is it 22:00 UTC yet?  :)
<Unit193> It's 22:00 EST...
<mikodo> oops, Jan 23/15
<Unit193> Heh, if you're looking for th meeting, yes that's not today.
<mikodo> Unit193, No I was just being dumb
<mikodo> I've IT coming in to the house from my IP, at the meeting time. I hope I can still be here as it happens, if not, it wil be the logs again for me.
<Unit193> Ouch, that'd make it pretty hard to be online.
<mikodo> we'll see ...
<slickymasterWork> knome, ping
<knome> slickymasterWork, pong
<slickymasterWork> knome, regarding the new chapter -> "Key stores and password managers. It is worth having a good password for those services, since they allow you to avoid typing many other passwords!"
<knome> yes?
<slickymasterWork> I think it should be Keystores, not Key stores
<knome> mmh, i think both are just as fine
<slickymasterWork> they're two distinct concpets
<knome> it's a store with keys, so, a key store
<slickymasterWork> you do?
<knome> yeah... i don't see much different
<knome> *difference
<knome> maybe check with a native english speaker
<slickymasterWork> elfy ^^
<Unit193> Keystores implies it's the specific name to something, key store is a place to store keys.
<slickymasterWork> that's my reading also Unit193 
<knome> do we need a specific name there?
<Unit193> No.
<knome> yeah
<Unit193> You want a descriptive term.
<slickymasterWork> my reasoning is that people tend to associate the later (key stores) to a physical object and the former (keystores) to software
<knome> i think you might be overthinking
<slickymasterWork> but if you guys think I'm complicating things, I'll leave it to rest
<slickymasterWork> ok :P
<knome> it will be obvious for the reader what it is about
<knome> there's a lot of context for it anyway
<slickymasterWork> oki doke
<knome> if they insist on understanding wrong... then they probably will find other things to nag about if we change this ;)
<Unit193> But the good English person to ping wouldn't be on yet.
<slickymasterWork> who might that good person be Unit193?
<elfy> that'd be ali1234 
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<Unit193> I'd have said the website lead.
<knome> i'm the website lead
<knome> so maybe you mean the marketing lead
<Unit193> Thought you might be, mail and all..  Yeah, that's it.
<pleia2> meeting in just under 10 minutes
<elfy> forgot about that one - I'll be dashing off asap today :)
<slickymaster> yeah, I'm not sure also if I'll be able to make it through the entire meeting
<pleia2> I suspect it won't be that long
<slickymaster> it's my mother birthday, today
<pleia2> ah yes, you had mentioned that
<slickymaster> :)
<slickymaster> 74, it's quite a beautiful age
<pleia2> :D
<slickymaster> we'llhave to be in the restaurant in about an hour. I'm just waiting for my brother
<pleia2> alright, let's get this rolling
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jan 23 20:00:10 2015 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<pleia2> who all is here? :)
<slickymaster> o/
<elfy> I is I is
<pleia2> #topic Open action items
<pleia2> #done pleia2 to draft stickers+incentives blog post for QA contributor giveaways
<pleia2> and published!
<pleia2> #done pleia2 to update docs.xubuntu.org, knome has updated the bzr repo
<pleia2> #done knome to set up a repository for static.xubuntu.org content
<pleia2> #done pleia2 to copy mailman info page assets under static.xubuntu.org
<elfy> busy bee
<pleia2> that's everything from last meeting
<pleia2> #topic Team updates
<elfy> #info QA nothing much to report 
<pleia2> #info Published stickers+QA blog post and shared around social media: http://xubuntu.org/news/help-the-community-with-testing-and-win-xubuntu-stickers/
<slickymaster> #done sidi to rewrite the security guide in the documentation
<pleia2> elfy: tsk
<slickymaster> sorry pleia2 for being late
<pleia2> #info QA did a bunch of work with Ubuntu QA to clean up general QA documentation on the wiki
<pleia2> :)
<elfy> well ... 
<elfy> that'll be going on for ages :)
<pleia2> slickymaster: done or action?
 * pleia2 hasn't kept up
<slickymaster> #info the done pleia2 
<slickymaster> bah
<pleia2> haha
<slickymaster> you caught in the middle of something
<elfy> #undo 
<pleia2> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<elfy> cept pleia2 keeps chair to herself - greedy like
<pleia2> #chair elfy 
<meetingology> Current chairs: elfy pleia2
<elfy> lol
<slickymaster> #info the Keeping your computer safe chpater of the documentation has been completely rewritten
<pleia2> elfy: that's what you get!
<slickymaster> thanks for that sidi 
<pleia2> awesome
<elfy> got to dash now ... 
<slickymaster> hf elfy 
<elfy> jk :)
<pleia2> any other updates?
<slickymaster> nothing from me
<elfy> not here
<pleia2> alright, worth talking about games and office applications at this meeting?
<elfy> not really - but then again 
<pleia2> might bump to next meeting if the interested parties aren't around
<elfy> if the next one or next or next doesn't have people we just as well not talk about anything ever ;)
<pleia2> well, they have to come to a meeting eventually :)
<slickymaster> we won't be taking any decisions, just the three of us, so I think it would be better to postpone it to the next one
<elfy> yea - but then others will be missing instead
<elfy> I'd rather just motion to take them to the mailing list tbh
<slickymaster> well, faiw I'm +1 on dropping the games
<pleia2> #topic Remove games from default install
<pleia2> I have no opinion here
<slickymaster> +1 from me on dropping them
<pleia2> elfy: seems reasonable to rm from meeting agenda and take it to the list
<pleia2> who wants to do that?
<elfy> I brought it up - but wasn't actually completely serious about that, but would +1 that
<elfy> I can
<pleia2> #action elfy to mail list about removing games from default install
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to mail list about removing games from default install
<pleia2> thank you :)
<elfy> ta 
<slickymaster> I was elfy, when you firts mentioned it elfy 
<pleia2> #topic Start long-term discussion regarding current office applications
<slickymaster> * first
<pleia2> suppose we should start somewhere :)
<elfy> this was me again :D
<pleia2> I love libreoffice
<elfy> given what abiword is doing currently ... 
<pleia2> social media tells me that lots of people install it
<elfy> really think we should just bite this bullet 
<pleia2> what is abiword doing?
<elfy> but again - needs to go to mailing list - and probably needs a bit more discussion than games is likely to get
<elfy> not working properly unless you happen to have the mouse in the right place the first time
<elfy> that's just crazy 
<pleia2> ugh
<elfy> bug 1395323
<ubottu> bug 1395323 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword opens multiple windows when spacebar is pressed, until a new file is opened" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395323
<pleia2> that would be funny if it wasn't awful
<elfy> comment #8 If AbiWord launches in an unmaximized window and the mouse pointer is located outside of that window, the bug behavior happens.
<pleia2> x_x
<elfy> otherwise you can spacebar to open a new one :)
<elfy> I managed about 50 before I got bored
<elfy> can someone mail list about that one then :)
<pleia2> I suppose I can
<elfy> or slickymaster :)
<pleia2> #action pleia2 to mail list to kick off discussion about default office applications
<slickymaster> what?
<meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to mail list to kick off discussion about default office applications
<pleia2> I just need to send one email, the rest of you can fight about it ;)
<elfy> heh
<slickymaster> sorry guys, my brother just arrived and I have to go
<elfy> have a good evening slickymaster :)
<pleia2> slickymaster: have fun!
<slickymaster> thanks
<slickymaster> cy tomorrow
<pleia2> elfy: ok, since you and I already know about Community Q&A thing, I really will skip that one
<elfy> yep :)
<pleia2> #topic Finalise User identifies as poll option
<pleia2> #link http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as
<elfy> and we both know about this too :D
<pleia2> well, ftr at a meeting, I'm fine with your proposal at the end of the pad as is
<elfy> I'll mail the list - then lets wrap that up by next meeting - then get that gone 
<pleia2> ok
<elfy> #action Elfy to mail list re user poll
<meetingology> ACTION: Elfy to mail list re user poll
<pleia2> #topic Discussion
<pleia2> anything else?
 * elfy looks behind him ... 
<elfy> nope
<pleia2> ok great, let's see who gets to do the next meeting...
<elfy> guess who ...
<pleia2> elfy!
<elfy> #action Elfy to setup next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: Elfy to setup next meeting
<pleia2> #action elfy to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to schedule next meeting
<pleia2> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
<elfy> ha ha 
<pleia2> I was so excited
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> alright, thanks elfy 
<pleia2> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Jan 23 20:17:14 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-01-23-20.00.moin.txt
<elfy> okey doke - thanks pleia2 :)
 * pleia2 does wiki things
<elfy> have a good weekend 
<elfy> pleia2: one more for you - do you want something on a pad or? for usb options to burn with? 
<pleia2> hm?
<elfy> bluesabre: if you're about over the weekend - I'm happy to schedule the next one at a time to suit you - but it'll need to be a Friday
<elfy> pleia2: for your global jam thingy - though I would be trying to be about at some point of it in here
<pleia2> do you mean a pad describing the options, or for us to report issues, or..?
<elfy> options so you know what works :)
<pleia2> that would be good
<elfy> ok - well I'll keep a watch on the relevant bug as well - but there will be something for you to reference if necessary :)
<pleia2> thanks :)
<elfy> welcome of course :)
<elfy> well I have to run now 
<pleia2> neat, nicknames according to meetbot are case sensisive
<pleia2> Elfy != elfy
<elfy> oh ... 
<elfy> not needing to schedule then - it's in the minutes \o/ 
<pleia2> lol
<elfy> ok - well I'm off now - about over the weekend :)
<elfy> have a good one if I don't see you 
<brainwash> bluesabre: I am not sure if you follow the xfpm lp report, so please read http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-January/027255.html
<knome> ooops.
<knome> well wasn't a chance
<Unit193> Missed the meeting too. \o/
<Unit193> :P
<Unit193> knome: So the answer is, run xfpm as root, yes.
<knome> to what question?
<bluesabre> meeting missed
<bluesabre> :(
<Unit193> ^
 * Unit193 puts on the cone of shame.
<bluesabre> elfy: it'd have to be before 1300 or after 2200 UTC
<Unit193> (http://www.thestranger.com/images/blogimages/2009/07/23/1248402537-cone-1.jpg that would be that, btw.)
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> to be fair, most of us missed the meeting today
<bluesabre> cones of shame for us all
<knome> peanuts for me
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-24
<bluesabre> elfy: uploaded a new abiword from debian into -staging... if you want to check it out tomorrow and see if things work any better for you
<brainwash> elfy: hey, do you think it would help to activate descriptions in whisker menu? this way every launcher would display its Comment= parameter
<brainwash> would also solve bug 1396804
<ubottu> bug 1396804 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Name For Thunar Settings Launcher Is Unclear (thunar-settings.desktop)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396804
<brainwash> or are the additional comments an annoyance for the average user?
<brainwash> comments/descriptions
<knome> they are very random and eat up a lot of space. it'd also mean we'd use larger icons. those are few of the reasons they are hidden
<brainwash> they do add some bloat. I've enabled the descriptions and after some time I did not mind the extra text anymore
<brainwash> larger icons are always nice :)
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, elfy, abiword 3.0.1 looks good from here.
<knome> brainwash, subjective...
<brainwash> knome: it is. just trying to figure out what's best for the average user
<knome> well for the bug you mentioned, i don't think adding the descriptions would be what the OP wanted... just a workaround
<knome> it should be fixed in some other way (maybe a different icon or sth)
<brainwash> he wants to distinguish the two launchers, and by making the description visible he will be able to
<knome> brainwash, sure... but if he doesn't want to show the descriptions, then it's just a workaround
<knome> and i can empathise that very much, it's a problem with the .desktop files, not the configuration
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: did you have any issues with the prior version?
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I was the one who found the bug. By running the testcase :)
<brainwash> knome: but we cannot rename the desktop files
<knome> brainwash, "cannot" is a bit wrong, but i understand what you are saying... we can probably use another icon for the settings though
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, and yes, the bug was still there just prior to running your update this morning.
<brainwash> knome: another icon.. yeah, this could work
<brainwash> knome: basically a folder icon with a little cog wheel
<knome> yep
<brainwash> this new icon would also show up in the settings manager, but that's fine I guess
<brainwash> so we could forward this change upstream
<knome> yes, that's fair
<brainwash> in case such an icon already exists (freedesktop standard)
<brainwash> I assume so
<knome> or we can draw one
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: great!
<jjfrv8> elfy, for tracking purposes, which do you prefer: editing the existing testcase result and changing it from Failed to Passed, or creating a new one with an appropriate comment?
<elfy> jjfrv8: related to what? package or ... 
<jjfrv8> elfy, the package testcases
<elfy> be best to just report again I would think
<elfy> is this abiword? 
<jjfrv8> yes, and that's what I did. Re-ran the testcase and filed a new result.
<elfy> awesome - thanks jjfrv8 :)
<jjfrv8> welcome
<knome> bbl
#xubuntu-devel 2015-01-25
<Unit193> xfdashboard 0.3.8-0ubuntu1 tagged and soon uploaded.
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin/commit/?id=eac601bc177bd252cd65715a6b5d30b51fd8f7fc - https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10571 looks like the only one with it though.
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10571 in General "Cannot compile HEAD version - unable to copy intltool.m4" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole/tree/autogen.sh ah
<Unit193> taskman too, weird..
<Unit193> Oh right, https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-screenshooter_1.8.2-0ubuntu1.dsc <---- bluesabre
<elfy> bluesabre: bug 1414443
<ubottu> bug 1414443 in mugshot (Ubuntu) "Camera doesn't initialise" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414443
<brainwash> elfy: the usual stuff, run "mugshot -v" or even "mugshot -vv" to get some debug info :)
<elfy> yea yea - just wanted to report it for the one reported as a testcase bug so I could dupe that and change it's affects before I forget 
<frisket> \quit
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-25
<knome> i just finished an amd64 full-disk installation
<flocculant> anything you saw odd? 
<knome> nope
<flocculant> good 
<knome> well, a notice about blueman crash
<flocculant> yea - that's been hanging about for weeks now 
<knome> and then on the right-click menu on desktop, i see the xubuntu website and contribute to xubuntu items
<knome> didn't we clean them up already?
<flocculant> seems not
<knome> yep
<knome> we should take care of that
<knome> i'll file a bug and attach it to appropriate place
<knome> s
<flocculant> ok
<Akxwi-dave> hhhmmm I did a full amd64 again yesterday and didn't get the blueman crash(first time in ages).. I did it on a lenovo thinkpad 
<Akxwi-dave> knome, there should already be one for the Blueman crash.. i filled one last week... Let me get the number
<Akxwi-dave> Bug #1533206
<ubottu> bug 1533206 in blueman (Ubuntu) "Blueman-apport crash on login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1533206
<knome> Akxwi-dave, i did the install on vbox
<Akxwi-dave> knome, must admit all the ones I did where i got the crash was on vox, i'll re-test tonight with todays build on hardware to double check.. just incase its a vbox crash
<knome> yeah
<Akxwi-dave> flocculant, knome, Re blueman crash, can confirm that the crash on boot to live doesn't happen on real hardware (got a Tosh satellite pro, one of my users brought in to look at) just tried with amd64 and i386.  I386 on vbox, blueman definately crashed..
<Akxwi-dave> Will do full install later on my Lenovo lappy
<knome> Akxwi-dave, i wonder if the crash is about not finding any suitable bluetooth devices
<knome> because you won't have such on vbox
<knome> but most laptops do
<Akxwi-dave> true and makes logical sense....  I have a spare Lenovo Thinkcentre as well (with no Bluetooth).. I can install on that as well to confirm
<knome> i'd think that might be a good thing to do when trying to see if it's a vbox issue or not
<knome> thanks for taking care :)
<flocculant> Akxwi-dave knome - don't see the blueman crash on my hardware, no bluetooth available unless I plug in a dongle
<knome> mhm
<knome> then it's likely vbox...
<flocculant> entirely possible 
<akxwi-dave> knome flocculant : right I have installed todays daily on both a Laptop and desktop pc.. I got the blueman crash on the desktop with no Bluetooth device.. But didn't get it with the Laptop with a bluetooth device
<knome> mmh
<knome> weird
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<ochosi> evening
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<knome> Unit193, sooooo
<knome> Unit193, do you know if the proposer is the only one who can add more reviewers for a MP?
<knome> Unit193, or if adding people means you have to do a new MP?
<knome> bluesabre, i left you an issue @ github.
<Unit193> 1.  Don't know, would guess not.  2. No, you can just request more reviewers.
<knome> Unit193, well i can't seem to add more reviewers in one *cough* of your MP's
<flocculant> knome: just updating image - don't see blueman here booting it from grub to hardwaree
<knome> Unit193, would you mind adding one?
<knome> flocculant, mhm
<Unit193> I don't see that getting anywhere.
<knome> Unit193, well regarding my last comment on the MP
<Unit193> I saw that.
<knome> Unit193, there is a person whose surname is the same as somebody who is well known from a popular detective series
<knome> Unit193, who happens to be an admin of the team who is subscribed to the MP
<knome> Unit193, even if it didn't go anywhere with that, i'd try it.
<Unit193> knome: Right, we pinged him at one point and that's not really his field anymore.
<Unit193> Does it need re-submitted via that button, btw?
<Unit193> There.
<knome> Unit193, if it isn't, then i hope this request makes him pass on the administrator hat to somebody else, who we can then ping
<knome> Unit193, if you want, you can leave a comment like "Adding X (admin of the CD image team) as a reviewer to make sure this MP is moving forward."
<knome> Unit193, guess you can even add "(r=ochosi)"
 * knome hides
<knome> in fact, i think he can even approve that addition
<knome> Unit193, also, if you can *remove* reviewers, you can remove the other open one
<knome> i don't think you can though
<Unit193> I can't.
<knome> slickymaster, sooooo
<knome> slickymaster, maybe you saw a message about the contributor docs on the mailing list (from a google code-in student)
<slickymaster> yesssss
<slickymaster> yes I did, this morning
<knome> the contest has ended and obviously the task closed, but i would imagine you can still ask for more details if you want
<slickymaster> and was about to ping his mentor re it
<knome> mhm
<knome> flocculant, i guess it partly interests you too ^
<knome> flocculant, but i'm sure you have seen the mail
<ochosi> bluesabre: fwiw, xenial has the gtk3 overlay scrollbars enabled
<slickymaster> the way I read the mail it seems to be just a some requests
<ochosi> bluesabre: iirc you disabled those for 15.10
<knome> slickymaster, i was asking for feedback about the contibutor docs
<slickymaster> hey ochosi, benonsoftware 
<knome> slickymaster, this is basically after they have read the documentation and thought how it could be improved
<slickymaster> but was that the the task itself, knome?
<knome> slickymaster, rather than "i come here and demand change"
<slickymaster> ok, i understand
<knome> slickymaster, let me dig up the exact wording
<flocculant> knome: yea - I did see that
<slickymaster> but there are a few points that I don't see getting into the docs
<knome> slickymaster, same here
<knome> well actually it's pretty much this: http://pad.ubuntu.com/GCI
<slickymaster> let read it knome 
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, I can confirm the Blueman crash on Ubuntu MATE 16.04 too.
<flexiondotorg> In a VirtualBox guest on a host with Bluetooth.
<slickymaster> ok, knome, that's the set of specifications you created for the task
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: what we're wondering about is when it actually crashes - seems to constantly on vbox, but not hardware - I don't crash on hardware someone else does
<flocculant> knome: not sure about making pages shorter though - just means we end up with page upon page
<slickymaster> it's funny though how people these days tent to override the 'getting bored' aspect of -docs with the massive addition of all types of graphic media
<slickymaster> knome: ^^^
<flocculant> and I have the obligatory flocculant repsonse to cartoons ... 
<slickymaster> and there's some sort of contradiction in his suggestions knome 
<flocculant> slickymaster: they don't teach people to read and write at school anymore
<slickymaster> on one hand he says that the documentation is very long and has many information
<flocculant> then it's too much to read :p
<slickymaster> on the other he asks for more examples and instances for some part of the documentation
<flocculant> don't forget this is someone <18 
<slickymaster> didn't know that, flocculant 
<knome> slickymaster, flocculant: i'm not saying anything in there is something we NEED to put in the docs, but the things in the mail might give you an inspiration to do something
<knome> slickymaster, yeah, the code-in contest was for 13-17 yo non-university students
<slickymaster> noted
<flocculant> I thought it wasn't a bad review tbh 
<knome> no
<knome> it was the better of the two
<slickymaster> no it wasn't
<flocculant> knome: was there another ?
<slickymaster> and I wasn't lashing it
<knome> flocculant, that didn't end up on the mailing list, but yeah, there was
<flocculant> right 
<knome> flocculant, unfortunately it's not worth digging up
<flocculant> :)
<slickymaster> lol, was about to ask if there was anything fruitful in the other, knome 
<knome> or let's put it this way - i had to make sure the person had understood the task in at least some way to be able to give them an approved
<flocculant> :)
<slickymaster> right teach
<ochosi> meh, updating greybird has become so tedious...
<ochosi> this is really the last time before i move to SASS
<ochosi> Unit193, knome: any of you following -release..?
<flocculant> I think we are 
<flocculant> not necessarily actively though in all cases
<ochosi> i mean *now*
<knome> no
<ochosi> flexion was proposing something that sounds a tiny bit like x-core
<flocculant> sounds more or less the same to me 
<ochosi> ("x-core" sounds a bit dirty btw, we should keep the "xubuntu" part)
<knome> flexiondotorg, are you planning to call it "ubuntu mate core"?
<knome> flexiondotorg, or "ubuntu basic"
<flexiondotorg> Ubuntu MATE Basic
<knome> flexiondotorg, because we're in the middle of a very similar process, but it's pausing because they don't want us to call it "core" apparently
<Unit193> flexiondotorg: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core/+merge/268167
<knome> (and anything else than desktop/dvd brings at least slight grins on their faces)
<flexiondotorg> Yeah, I avoid "core" because Ubuntu Snappy Core
<knome> would you be willing to consider "base" instead of "basic" if it happened they wanted these two grouped under the same product type?
<flexiondotorg> knome, Base is good too :-)
<flexiondotorg> Better than Basic.
<knome> ochosi, ^ comment please
<ochosi> sure, i'd be fine with -base
<knome> i mean, it might get use more friction if it was two flavors requesting the same stuff for the same purpose
<flexiondotorg> So we've got the same idea here.
<ochosi> in general i'm not too picky with the name, if we can get behind the same thing that's probably more valuable
<flexiondotorg> Should we perhaps use the same suffix?
<flexiondotorg> -base sounds good to me.
<ochosi> (not only with the MR, but also in general. more consistency)
<flexiondotorg> So have the Xubuntu community been asking for this also?
<flocculant> for a long time
<flexiondotorg> Cool.
<flocculant> not really - we're getting ignored
<flexiondotorg> Ignored?
<flocculant> 2015-08-15 we proposed it
<flexiondotorg> Interesting.
<flocculant> 2015-10-08 is got disapproved and is in someone's 'queue'
<knome> flexiondotorg, the xubuntu community has asked this from the xubuntu team (but not ignored), the xubuntu team has asked this from ubuntu cd image team but disapproved because "core"
<flexiondotorg> I guess the Ubuntu MATE people must have seen it.
<flexiondotorg> Because that roughtly when I got asked about doing something similar.
<flexiondotorg> So I split out the -core/-desktop stuff a bit more in 15.10 to prepare.
<Unit193> That's when the ISO stuff started, the seeds barely missed trusty's release.
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - so it did
<flexiondotorg> knome, Is https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core/+merge/268167
<flexiondotorg> Everything that needs doing?
<knome> flexiondotorg, you should ask Unit193 
<flexiondotorg> Looks like 3 MPs.
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-core
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core
<ochosi> night everyone
<knome> ochosi, i guess you read the news
<knome> Unit193, krytarik: can you cooperate with flexiondotorg with their stuff too?
<flexiondotorg> Would be helpful :-)
<flexiondotorg> I did this stuff about a year ago when Ubuntu MATE was introduced.
<flexiondotorg> But a bit rusty.
<knome> there we go... finally, i guess
<knome> with this sorted for now, i'm off
<knome> ttyl
<knome> and thanks flexiondotorg for showing up, i'm sure both of us doing the same helped this move along
<knome> -->
<flexiondotorg> knome, No problem.
<flexiondotorg> I've started working on my patches.
<Unit193> Basically, look at the diff, and mirror the changes but for MATE.
<flexiondotorg> Unit193, Am doing :-)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Can you see whatever it is knome/infinity want?
<bluesabre> Unit193: huh?
<bluesabre> ochosi: even for non-pkexec/sudo apps?
<Unit193> bluesabre: There's a whole mess of backlog in -release, and short end of it is knome got mate to agree to the 'base' name rather than 'core', so things will have to be changed.  There's a few last comments from infinity too.
<bluesabre> Unit193: alrighty, caught up now
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll probably need to create new branches since its in your personal branches (and to avoid a nasty merge process)
<bluesabre> knome: you're probably missing php5-mysql ?
 * bluesabre always cheats and installs phpmyadmin to grab requirements
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right, should be easy to either pull the one I have in or just pull master and merge commits.
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> I'll work on getting that done tonight
<Unit193> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-26
<bluesabre> one down: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core
<bluesabre> oh wait
<bluesabre> I should rename that branch
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-base
<bluesabre> two down: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-base
<bluesabre> and three: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base
<bluesabre> Unit193, krytarik, knome, flexiondotorg: three updated branches for xubuntu-base (1) https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-base (2) https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-base (3) https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base
<bluesabre> Unit193, krytarik, knome, flexiondotorg: please note that these are untested... I don't know how to test but everything is on latest trunk with base instead of core.
<krytarik> bluesabre: Only you renamed the task here too, which would make it fail right now: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-base/revision/1267#live-build/auto/config
<bluesabre> krytarik: yes, we'd need to update the task as well, I'd imagine
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yeeeeah that's not going to be a fun migration.
<Unit193> And heh, I was actually going to do the one. :P
<Unit193> There's the release upgrader too if you're going to rename the task, not sure if anything else.
<bluesabre> Unit193: could just xubuntu-core depends xubuntu-base and leave -core in the archive foreverrrrrr
<bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to do the release upgrader under lp:~xubuntu-dev
<bluesabre> otherwise I can poke it tomorrow
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Unit193 Does the task actually need renaming?
<flexiondotorg> Are Xubuntu interested in participating in 16.04 Alpha 2?
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, knome, Unit193, flocculant ^^^
<Unit193> I'm not on the release team.
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: we are not participating in a2
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg, Unit193: do we need to rename the task? I'm guessing so for consistency
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, That for a2 feedback.
<flexiondotorg> I'm going to leave the ubuntu-mate-core task name alone.
<slickymasterWork> !team | The next meeting is scheduled for Friday, 5 February 2016 15:00 UTC
<ubottu> The next meeting is scheduled for Friday, 5 February 2016 15:00 UTC: bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<slickymasterWork> knome, what happened to the team calendar?
<slickymasterWork> knome I add manually the team meeting to Google Calendar, but as it assumes my timezone (GMT+00:00 Lisbon), it's not the UTC timezone
<flocculant> well for all intents and purposes UTC is the same as GMT till the clocks change next year
<slickymasterWork> isn't it just until spring flocculant?
<flocculant> yea
<slickymasterWork> and hi :)
<flocculant> I meant later - I was in December for a moment then :p
<slickymasterWork> lol
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, I'm making the ubuntu-mate-base changes stacked on your branch.
<flexiondotorg> *branches.
<flexiondotorg> I see that you've got reference to wily in debian-cd, do you want me to make the xubuntu-base changes in xenial?
<flexiondotorg> The following branches are stacked on the ~xubuntu-dev versions bluesabre pushed last night.
<flexiondotorg> They include the additions for ubuntu-mate-base and some additions for xubuntu-base in debian-cd for xenial.
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/debian-cd/ubuntu-mate-base
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/livecd-rootfs/ubuntu-mate-base
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/ubuntu-mate-base
<pleia2> slickymasterWork: I don't think the team calendar ever calculated utc time itself, I always add things in iceland time
<slickymasterWork> ok pleia2 
<slickymasterWork> but what happened to the team calendar in the site, do you know?
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: what do you mean 'in the site' ?
<flocculant> it's on the tracker
<pleia2> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-calendar
<pleia2> hm, not showing up
<pleia2> if you click on html or whatever, you get to it
<flocculant> working here
<pleia2> but inline isn't working for some reason
<slickymasterWork> exacltly
<pleia2> ok, inline only works for flocculant 
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, no html for me :P
<flocculant> slickymasterWork: that xenial? I had to downgrade the updated f/f this afternoon
<flocculant> doubting pleia2 is looking in xenial :)
<pleia2> wily
<pleia2> + chrome
<flocculant> :)
<pleia2> works in firefox
<flocculant> pleia2: confirm fubar in chromium 
<pleia2> knome: http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-calendar doesn't show up in chome/chromium, need your web dev superpowers <3
<duress> Hi
<duress> I messed up something.. Everything was working great and I updated my gcc to 5.3 from 4.8 and everything went to hell. Now my v8 compilation results in iostream not found. I have gone back to 4.8 but my error persists. Any help ?
<krytarik> !channels | duress
<ubottu> duress: #xubuntu is the Xubuntu support channel, #xubuntu-devel for discussion regarding development of Xubuntu, and #xubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
<flocculant> ochosi: so running with the new xfpm here and on the little box - not sure that I'll see anything odd tbh, no laptop
<ochosi> right, well still
<flocculant> if we want to put a specific xfpm call out - I can do that asap
<ochosi> it *could* crash, e.g. if you connect devices that charge (mp3 players, phones etc)
<ochosi> or not just crash, but just not work as intended
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> if you want a specific call for anything let me know 
<flocculant> do we *really need* build-essential installed with a vanilla install? 
<ochosi> hm, we have that? why do we have that?
<ochosi> yeah, i guess a call for laptop users and those who connect their phones or ipods for charging etc would be interesting
<flocculant> ochosi: okey doke 
<flocculant> and yea - no idea why we have that :)
<ochosi> k, gotta go for now
<ochosi> thanks flocculant!
<flocculant> welcome and cya :)
<skunkbunny> Helo. You update daily build just with apt-get update/upgrade, yes? Anything else to know?
<flocculant> skunkbunny: hi - I assume you were xubuntu something or other ?
<flocculant> what you're doing is 'exploratory testing' - using the dev version 
<skunkbunny> flocculant: yes. Should I just do my own stuff and report with problems?
<flocculant> so - what *we* like is for people to use our specific develeopment ppa's 
<flocculant> and yes - use it as though it was stable - report issues
<flocculant> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-testing.html gives you more information
<flocculant> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html more :)
<skunkbunny> I can do dev PPAs. I mainly work as a website developer, but can do more.
<flocculant> this is the session we'll be running this weekend https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-January/011006.html
<flocculant> skunkbunny: cool
<flocculant> I'm shortly about to post to our dev list about testing the newest power manager
<flocculant> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
<skunkbunny> My testing machine is a laptop, so I can test the power manager too.
<flocculant> excellent :)
<flocculant> I'm the QA lead, knome is the website lead - so you might want to see what that's got going on too
<flocculant> but as far as testing goes - we'll be testing till the day or two prior to release in April
<skunkbunny> I tried most of the Ubuntu flavors, and Xubuntu is really nice. I'm excited, as the last time I checked it out was 6.06. I did try to ask a question on the devel mailing list, but not sure if I did it right.
<skunkbunny> Same question I asked you.
<flocculant> what username on there?
<flocculant> if you're not subscribed it will have gone in the moderation queue 
<flocculant> you need to be subscribed to that for sure - it's where we ask people to do stuff
<skunkbunny> I'm not sure if I have a username. Maybe webdesignbrian or Gottier.
<skunkbunny> I did subscribe and confirm.
<flocculant> not showing either of those - make sure you're subscribed to it - it's not massive output at all
<flocculant> not sure then
<flocculant> last mails to that list were today ~12:00 
<skunkbunny> I am right now on the xubuntu-devel mailing list membership configuration page. I am subscribed. When I sent an email, it said: Results - Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts
<flocculant> no idea about that :)
<flocculant> when did you subscribe? 
<skunkbunny> Well, it's OK. I will test and figure it out later. Nice to meet you. I am in California, USA by the way.
<flocculant> nice - someone from 'team' is in California
<flocculant> few in US, some in Europe
<skunkbunny> I'm going to go to lunch. Thanks again and bye.
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - call for xfpm testing out now
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks a bunch! i'll try to circulate it
<flocculant> ochosi: welcome ofc 
<flocculant> ochosi: maybe some of the social thingies 
<ochosi> flocculant: gplused it, that's all i have access to
<bluesabre> flocculant: I believe build-essential is installed by default to make sure dkms modules can compile... or something
<ochosi> evening bluesabre 
<ochosi> thanks again for setting up the new xfpm version so quickly
<ochosi> call for testing already went out (thanks to flocculant)
<bluesabre> ochosi: just had to update the daily build (did that yesterday or day before actually)
<ochosi> nice
<bluesabre> ochosi: if you want to pick up a catfish daily and give it a spin, planning on a new release of that soon
<ochosi> took another stab at fixing the linked buttons, but it just sucks too hard
<ochosi> okeydokey, will do
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/ubuntu/ppa catfish-daily package
<bluesabre> heading out now, bbabl
<ochosi> alrighty, have a good one (heading to bed)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-27
<knome> did we decide to participate in A2?
<krytarik> knome: Yes - no. :P
<krytarik> knome: "<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: we are not participating in a2".
<knome> ok
<bluesabre> evening knome 
<knome> hello bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<knome> watching eddie murphy standup from the 80's and planning to go to bed once it's finished
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> catching up on -ot
<knome> mhm
<knome> also check the issue @ github :P
<bluesabre> knome: I pinged you earlier for that btw
<knome> did you
<knome> hmm
<knome> oh, right
<knome> makes sense
<knome> maybe add that to the requirement list :P
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> though i think php7 was installed
<knome> will check tomorrow when i boot up the vbox
<bluesabre> Unit193, krytarik: I moved those brances to ~xubuntu-dev, so if we want to adjust the name further, Unit193 should have write access to just revert the top commits
<bluesabre> s/braces/branches/
<bluesabre> er
<bluesabre> brances
<krytarik> lol
<bluesabre> :D
<krytarik> And yep, it's fine there, of course.
<knome> time to bed, ttyl
<krytarik> bluesabre: And as I mentioned to Unit193 earlier, we should probably update them for Xenial too, then.
<skunkbunny> For Firefox, is there a way to change the window title bar to show the menus, File, Edit, etc. instead of the page title? It's kind of annoying, because it seems like wasted space.
<krytarik> skunkbunny: I use this add-on for it - and support is in #xubuntu still: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/personal-menu/
<skunkbunny> krytarik: Thanks, and sorry for asking in the wrong chat. I'm just testing though, and finding problems and annoyances.
<dkessel> are there any new features to look out for when trying the new xfpm from the ppa? or bugs that should not be there anymore?
<dkessel> and... should anything happen when i connect my phone for charging?
<flocculant> dkessel: it should charge I guess :)
<dkessel> ha ha :p
<dkessel> i just wondered about anything special because you mentioned in the mail
<flocculant> and I guess they're after regressions or fix confirmations :)
<flocculant> right - I was just paraphrasing what ochosi had said to me :)
<jjfrv8> flocculant, found a couple of issues with xfpm on my laptop. One is a different take on an old bug where my display dims when it shouldn't.
<jjfrv8> The other is new, I think. If I have my Laptop Lid setting to Switch off display, it works as expected if System tray icon is off, but it suspends if System tray icon is on.
<jjfrv8> If that sounds like a real bug, I can file the report later.
<flocculant> jjfrv8: sounds like a real bug to me 
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: that definitely sounds like a bug
<flocculant> really pleased you said that :p
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-28
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, After ALpha 2 are you gouys all set to progress "Base"?
<knome> flexiondotorg, infinity promised to look at the issue tomorrow or friday, would be great if we could get the MP's done by that
<knome> but i understand the a2 pressure for you..
<flexiondotorg> knome, Did you see me branches?
<flexiondotorg> They are stacked on what bluesabre prepared.
<flexiondotorg> Adds Ubuntu MATE support and include Xenial support for Xubuntu.
<flexiondotorg> I'm all set for a2.
<flexiondotorg> So ready to progress base tomorrow.
<knome> i didn't, but i didn't look carefully ;)
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/ubuntu-mate-base
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/livecd-rootfs/ubuntu-mate-base
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/debian-cd/ubuntu-mate-base
<flexiondotorg> I thought stacking would enbale us to submit one set of MPs.
<flexiondotorg> I don't care if Xubuntu want to merge the above and submit the MPs or if you want me to do it.
<jjfrv8> Well, I can't reproduce the two xfpm problems consistently tonight. I don't know if it's a different combination of settings from this morning, or what.
<jjfrv8> So no bug report for now.
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: yes, we've been ready to progress core/base for quite sooooooome time ;)
<flexiondotorg> I'm ready for Ubuntu MATE Base.
<flexiondotorg> Do you want me to submit merge proposals based on my repos which are stacked on the Xubuntu-dev branches?
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/ubuntu-mate-base
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/livecd-rootfs/ubuntu-mate-base
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/debian-cd/ubuntu-mate-base
<flocculant> ochosi: as admin for xubuntu release you should get an invite for the release team to Ubuntu Testcase - please accept it :D
<flocculant> I assume you saw and did :)
<ochosi> flocculant: done that already ;)
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> flocculant: any responses / bugreports about xfpm that i might've missed since the call for testing?
<flocculant> ochosi: all I've seen is jjfrv8 - mention something and then un-mention it
<ochosi> oh alright
<ochosi> that's something though
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> thing with the power manager is, there are so many bugs reported against it that are either invalid or valid but in some other component...
<flocculant> yea I know 
<flocculant> I gave up trying to make head or tail from bug reports about that/lightdm/the like
 * genii gets ready to smack branau soon
 * flocculant gets ready to turn pc off for the night :p
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> night then 
<branau> What's up?
<flocculant> your connection :)
<flocculant> then it's down ... 
<branau> Haha oops, I didn't even notice
<branau> Sorry!
<flocculant> lol
<Unit193> ZNC.
<knome> ugh
<knome> evening
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> brb
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, I'm ready to do Xubuntu Base and Ubuntu MATE Base.
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-29
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: cool
<bluesabre> krytarik, Unit193: see any changes that need to be made to the stacked branches? 
<bluesabre> I defer to you guys as the core pros
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml#L26
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also, http://paste.openstack.org/show/M8PGeFpA5F2yqGGfgYSA/ looks nicer.
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Shall I submit the ubuntu-mate-base branches as merge proposals? They include the Xubuntu BASE changes plus I added xubuntu-base to xenial.
<Unit193> bluesabre: While I'm at it, for shimmer-themes: http://paste.openstack.org/show/BKuDWsasvTuQmZOsAQiY
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/KnQXLadmVDTYUolyhM7h to be more complete, actually.
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: please do. I won't be around during the day, so hopefully you'll be able to field any questions. Please also ping knome and Unit193 since they have a lot of insight of whats going on with it currently
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Wilco
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, that had also occurred to me just recently (gmb), I'll take care of that and your other suggestions this evening
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/debian-cd/ubuntu-mate-base/+merge/284435
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/livecd-rootfs/ubuntu-mate-base/+merge/284432
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-cdimage/ubuntu-mate-base/+merge/284433
<flexiondotorg> Unit193, knome See above ^^^^
<flexiondotorg> I've pinged infinity too.
<knome> Unit193, can you please review that?
<Unit193> 1. They should be stacked merge proposals...  2. That's messing with files of a past release, bad idea.  3. That's not currently going to work for Xubuntu.  4. There's a better way to do that than to hardcode release links for every version of that..
<Unit193> That's just of debian-cd.  There's also some oddity in the next one.
<Unit193> And by that, it adds both 'ubuntu-mate' and 'ubuntu-mate-base' in one section, and has a merge conflict.
<flexiondotorg> Unit193, What merge conflict?
<Unit193> The big one that says '>>>> THIS' and '<<<< HERE', I believe.
<flexiondotorg> The diff in the MPs do not show any conflicts.
<knome> flexiondotorg, did you find the conflict in the diff?
<flexiondotorg> knome, I'll look again. I was at work earlier so only glanced.
<flexiondotorg> One min...
<Unit193> flexiondotorg: w3m -dump https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/livecd-rootfs/ubuntu-mate-base/+merge/284432 | grep -e confli -e '<<<<' -e '>>>>'
<flexiondotorg> Yep, spotted it.
<flexiondotorg> Conflict sorted.
<flexiondotorg> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/livecd-rootfs/ubuntu-mate-base/+merge/284432
<flocculant> the thing is here
<flexiondotorg> ?
<flocculant> that while this is all well and good 
<flocculant> we've been trying to get this running for cycles
<knome> flocculant, we're on top of it.
<flocculant> and I will not try and force this through via QA - nor will I sign it off when it ends up landing in April
<flocculant> it's hard enough to get people - either in testers/users or 'team' to test what we do have
<Unit193> flocculant: That's fine, means a jumpstart for 16.10 if nothing else.
<flocculant> I will not be forced into a corner on this
<Unit193> Honestly, yes.  If it doesn't drop soon, don't officially release the ISOs.
<flocculant> Unit193: yep - fine by me :)
<knome> totally.
<Unit193> Just means I can stop messing with those things.
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> don't get me wrong here - I think it is a good idea for sure
<Unit193> Points still stand though, wily shouldn't be touched by these merges, and the task right now is still xubuntu-core and we may not have time for migration stuff.
<flocculant> but I'm not ticking the box for something we support for 3 years like we've done for things we support for 9 months
<Unit193> flocculant: I'm starting to wonder if it were to land right now if releasing would be a good idea, thinking holding off anyway might be good.
<flocculant> I'd rather it was rock solid ( or as solid as we get)
<flocculant> I'd want to see upgrade results
<flocculant> xubuntu-core>x-desktop and images to suit seems like a really sensible thing for us to do 
<flocculant> all for it 
<flocculant> but not going to be browbeaten :)
<Unit193> Xubuntu has gotten far enough away from my ideal I don't even like to re-install in VMs. :/  And yeah, upgrade paths work, or did for wily's upgrade.  I should likely test again.
<flocculant> and I assume -core would be a step back towards people *like* you 
<flocculant> and was the original impetus
<knome> flocculant, i'm about to add a "done" work item for you in the bug blueprint. just let it be; i want to see if that fixes something in the tracker.
<knome> flocculant, and done. more specifically, if you look at the burndown, you can see several days with clearly broken bars; this is because the tracker doesn't for some reason process the bugs blueprint
<knome> flocculant, you can confirm this yourself by looking at the overview tab in the next 25 minutes :)
<flocculant> looking now - and bugs is now missing from overview
<knome> so i want to see if adding a work item to the blueprint can fix it
<knome> or if it's something else, like something timing out
<flocculant> not sure - all I know is that currently bugs is gone from tracker
<knome> as long as i have any idea, it's enough ;)
<knome> just wanted to explain you why i added that work item for you so you don't go deleting it
<flocculant> oh I don't delete other peoples tasks - just add some :D
<flocculant> -bugs is an odd one
<flocculant> not sure it's trackable really
<knome> it's your task :P :P
<knome> i couldn't figure out any other work item for the bugs blueprint
<flocculant> no - it's my blueprint
<flocculant> I rarely fix bugs - just ones on the QA print (testcases)
<knome> your blueprint and your task ;)
<knome> anyway... just don't touch it
<knome> i'll do the further debugging later
<flocculant> don't touch -bugs? 
<knome> flocculant, that one work item in bugs
<knome> ...which you obviously can't see in the tracker right now 
<flocculant> I don't - all I do is add stuff an expect LP to magically set to released :D
<knome> Work items:
<knome> [flocculant] Copy open bugs over from Wily blueprint: DONE
<flocculant> I wrote that? 
<knome> no, i just did
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> as i said, i just created a work item for you...
<flocculant> ok :D
<knome> ...and i also said DON'T TOUCH IT >:)
<flocculant> don't what?
<knome> i want to see if that can fix the problem with the trackre
<flocculant> :D
<Unit193> Don't eat it.
<knome> don't touch the tra-la-la
<knome> (a good general advice for life if you are lost/unsure)
<flocculant> I found touching worked better
<flocculant> knome: anyway ...
<knome> lol
<flocculant> what I am saying is that for some reason -bugs is not showing up on tracker now - is that you?
<knome> no, it's something that's failing
<flocculant> aah ok
<knome> either it's missing it sometimes because LP doesn't give it the information (maybe because there are no work items)
<flocculant> well
<knome> or because some code times out (because getting the bugs takes some time)
<knome> so this is the debug measure number one :D
<Unit193> How's the Xubuntu server coming along, anyway?
<knome> (eg. where the fence is the lowest)
<flocculant> as I said at some point - is there any point in -bugs? is there any point in tracking -bugs? 
<knome> i think so
<flocculant> who at some point says 'jeez dude fix that ... '
<knome> i mean, it's not a list of ALL bugs, it's a list of important bugs we try to fix for the release
<flocculant> do I say knome will you please fix the highlight issue for people over 25 :|
<knome> you said
<flocculant> or do we leave them till loads shout
<flocculant> in which case - why track it
<knome> well i don't think people over 55 can shout very loud..
 * knome hides
<flocculant> really? 
<flocculant> pm me your phone number :D
<knome> lol
<knome> so.. i think i got what you were trying to say now
<knome> no, nobody should tell anybody to fix the things tracker
<knome> *tracked
<knome> usually the person who will fix it adds it themself
<knome> or somebody from the release/devel team
<Unit193> flocculant: ...We/you want the upgrade path for core tested, don't you?
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> Id' rather people tested things we actually seed currently, but if people can do those extras that's a bonus
<flocculant> as you know we don't oush testing it
<Unit193> I haven't purged everything we seed on my xenial install!
<flocculant> !
<flocculant> what?
<knome> now i get it
<knome> Unit193 usually purges xfce4 too and installs kde
<knome> but wants to keep the mouse art
<Unit193> >_>
<flocculant> knome: now I get the mail and see why you said don't delete the task
<knome> :D
<flocculant> knome: at least he keeps the art - I just wait for the cat to bring a disembowelled mouse home
<knome> the cat is already in the slideshow!
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-30
<flocculant> while running openelec on a kubuntu vm in xubuntu
<flocculant> loses the kubuntu vm and gains 90% ram
<knome> ;)=
<flocculant> if nothing else this cycle has been a bit hairy for me on the other side of xfce
<flocculant> apart from thunar
<flocculant> if we start getting lost files bug in xenial 
<Unit193> Thunar has crashed a couple times, aye.
<flocculant> that's nasty stuff
<flocculant> not had that - had crash while copying
<flocculant> I guess moving doesn't copy it somewhere - or should? 
<flocculant> shouldn't ever expose people to file manager bugs like that iyam
<Unit193> flocculant: OK, will poke around with it then.
<flocculant> Unit193: you saw this ^^ or the mail?
<flocculant> just wanting to know who reads what
<Unit193> Mail.
<flocculant> I guess we should know about xenial thunar issues
<flocculant> bluesabre: what's your take on thunar? 
<flocculant> just seems to break more and more for people
<knome> :|
<knome> i'd be sad to drop it
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> I would too ofc
<flocculant> but if we're looking at 3 years and not 9 months
<knome> sure
<flocculant> * i don't fix this stuff*
<knome> me niether
<knome> neither neither
<flocculant> we have to make grown-up decisions I guess
<knome> in that case i'm out
<knome> juuuust kidding!
<flocculant> and only a dev can give us the reasoning
<flocculant> on the other hand if it's broke in <16.04 for 9 months 
<flocculant> ppa perhaps
<flocculant> backthingy
<flocculant> if it's fubar in 16.04 then we need to think
<flocculant> this is where we really need people in 'team' to be talking about the same version of something :(
<Unit193> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/commit/?id=029012f4c39d9d3d9ae617491a69f76f54a4192f
<flocculant> oh
<flocculant> words :)
<flocculant> so do we have that in xenial?
<flocculant> cos the red and green bit look logical :)
<knome> let's make we do sooner or later
<knome> +sure
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> add it to the ignored bug list :D
<knome> lol
<Unit193> I can add that to the package, and you can test to see if it helps enough to bother/
<flocculant> Unit193: of course it is enough 
<flocculant> all we can do is test the things that fix the things that were broken
<Unit193> Well, that is, test and if it doesn't solve the problem well enough skip.
<flocculant> the thing is - currently we get a handful of people testing fixes
<flocculant> this is why my session on Sunday
<flocculant> if we get a few more, has to help
<flocculant> if 1 person says that the fix deleted / then find out why 
<flocculant> *we* don't have autoanything
<flocculant> but till we ask and push - we won't have more
<flocculant> I'd rather test a patch that could go ping and know - and have a copy
<flocculant> I dopn't even have a sensible idea of how to apply a patch
<flocculant> I piss about with google and evntually something doesn't error on me 
<flocculant> have to wonder what happened to davmor2 
<flocculant> davmor2_ turning up un-announced like that :p
<flocculant> wb dkessel_ 
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> let's test that patch for thunar, it crashes on me enough to make testing worthwhile
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'll update our branch so that wily > xenial
<bluesabre> Unit193: on the flip side of that, which line is the task so I can un-base it?
 * bluesabre is always late to the party
<bluesabre> knome: I see your new INPROGRESS task...
 * bluesabre wants sneak peeks
<Unit193> bluesabre: Well, he didn't stack the branches, he just cloned yours and added his commits on top, sooo...  Also I have thunar, just had to break for supper.
<Unit193> Unless you already got it, that is.
<bluesabre> Unit193: right, he should be able to merge my changes back on top of his branch
<Unit193> And, well it's in debian-cd and ubuntu-cdimage, iirc.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Disclaimer: I don't know how to bzr.
<bluesabre> Unit193: not started on it, so have at it :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: :D
<Unit193> Building now.
<Unit193> I know git better by now, and still lacking in that one.
<bluesabre> ochosi is git master
<Unit193> git pull --rebase is freaking awsome.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Wait, so where do I put this build? >_<
<bluesabre> Unit193: xubuntu-staging?
<Unit193> OK, that's what I was aiming at!
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> I'd try to reproduce before you update, but it's there now.
<bluesabre> Unit193: cool, thanks
<bluesabre> Unit193: look good? https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base/revision/1931 https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base/revision/1932
<bluesabre> Unit193: is this task the same as tasksel?
<bluesabre> livecd-rootfs/live-build/auto/config:294:add_task install minimal standard xubuntu-base
<Unit193> Was about to comment, you'll want 'xubuntu-core' for the tasks, as it stands.
<bluesabre> righty, did that with the above revision 1932
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, what about new gfx?
<krytarik> bluesabre: Can you please move/copy my improved splash image in 'debian-cd' to Xenial, too?
<bluesabre> data/wily/xubuntu.pcx ?
<bluesabre> you guys gotta be more specific (or let Unit193 make the commit) :D
<krytarik> bluesabre: Yep, that ( http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core/revision/1915 ).
<bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base/revision/1933
<krytarik> Awesome, thanks. :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: for my previous question, should that line in livecd-rootfs be xubuntu-core (not sure if add_task is part of the same terminology)
<Unit193> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-base/revision/1267#live-build/auto/config those are tasks, yes.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, corrected with https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-base/revision/1268
<bluesabre> heading to bed
<Unit193> G'nighty!
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: we made some updates to our branches https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/debian-cd/xubuntu-base https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-base
<bluesabre> night allllll
<knome> bluesabre, ha! ;)
<bluesabre> morning alllll
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> bluesabre: what's up?
<bluesabre> ochosi: just woke up, making coffee
 * bluesabre yawwwwwwwwwwns
<ochosi> :)
 * bluesabre has his coffee and breakfast
<ochosi> i'll soon have some french - uhm... belgian! - fries with mayo and ketchup
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, have you been running/testing the git version of xfpm?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes
<ochosi> so far i haven't really received any new bugreports since flocculant called for testing
<bluesabre> running at least
<ochosi> and nothing too critical in the open issues list in bugs.xfce
<ochosi> well at least nothing showstopper-like
<bluesabre> not sure if this is new to this version...
<bluesabre> when you click on the icon in the panel, the menu displays, when you click again, it does not hide (you have to click elsewhere)
<ochosi> only found we seemingly dropped a feature from 1.2.0
<ochosi> wfm
<ochosi> does hide for me
<ochosi> but actually i think there might be some issues
<bluesabre> nvm, that also seems to affect some indicators
<bluesabre> probably a bigger problem with
<bluesabre> oh I know
<bluesabre> gtk3 applets and indicators
<ochosi> hm, fun
<bluesabre> probably the panel not forwarding an event
<ochosi> could be
<bluesabre> but thats minor
<ochosi> we should really finish the panel port at some point
 * ochosi looks at andrzejr_ 
 * bluesabre looks at andrzejr_
<ochosi> k, lunchtime, bbiab
<bluesabre> doing a new catfish release this weekend, if folks want to spin it up and check some of the things under 1.3.4 https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~catfish-search/catfish-search/trunk/view/head:/ChangeLog
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~catfish-search/+archive/ubuntu/ppa (catfish-daily package)
<ochosi> k, upgrading
<ochosi> bluesabre: either you haven't updated the about dialog version number or catfish-daily didn't take over
<bluesabre> ochosi: I don't change the version number in the app until release
<ochosi> but it says 1.3.0
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> :\
<bluesabre> did you install catfish-daily?
<bluesabre> (instead of catfish)
<bluesabre> 1.3.4 will probably be the last dev release before 1.4, and if it looks good, 1.4 will probably come in the next week or two
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i installed that
<bluesabre> ochosi: run `which catfish`
<bluesabre> juuuust to make sure
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> yeah did that too ofc :)
<ochosi> /usr/local/bin/catfish
<bluesabre> that's a local install
<bluesabre> (/usr/bin/catfish)
 * `qq 
<bluesabre> but the python stuff in local will probably conflict with it, so grab the branch and run sudo make uninstall
<bluesabre> well, the latest version of the branch doesnt use a makefile either, come to think of it
<ochosi> :]
<ochosi> so what shall i really do now?
<ochosi> ok, now i'm there
<bluesabre> a destructive /usr/local/catfish destroy would probably look like: for filename in `find /usr/local -name catfish*`; do sudo rm -rf $filename; done
<ochosi> crash seen after a right-click on the treeview: http://dpaste.com/2PJYJ5T
<bluesabre> oh nice
<bluesabre> that should be a one-liner fix
<ochosi> can't reproduce it now
<bluesabre> yeah, once you've clicked on something, you've set self.rows, but if you don't do that before right-clicking, self.rows doesn't exist
<ochosi> oh great :)
<bluesabre> easy fix
<ochosi> another thing i noticed:
<bluesabre> good find!
<ochosi> mark multiple rows, right-click -> all rows except the one being clicked flash
<ochosi> i guess that's a workaround you're using there to select multiple rows?
<bluesabre> yup... something broke with the way multi-select used to work, so that is the treeview trying to select just that one, and then me forcing the old selection to persist
<bluesabre> it "works"
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it just feels a little odd
<ochosi> i guess this is also sorta expected:
<ochosi> (catfish:14808): Gtk-WARNING **: /build/gtk+3.0-pIzeMy/gtk+3.0-3.16.7/./gtk/gtkwidget.c:8554: widget not within a GtkWindow
<bluesabre> not sure what causes that, and I wish there was a way to silence gtk warnings for a running app
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> no worries then
<bluesabre> since the libraries by themselves tend to be a bit chatty and warning-y
<ochosi> polkit seems to work fine
<ochosi> great stuff
<bluesabre> simplifies quite a bit :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: so yeah, no other discoveries from my side
<ochosi> (in terms of catfish bugs, i mean)
<ochosi> can't test middle-click properly with my touchpad atm
<ochosi> other than that things seem fine
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looked at patches?  And one bite on the ML looks decent!
<bluesabre> Unit193: not yet, will now
<bluesabre> reproduced crash without patch... grabbing ppa version now
<bluesabre> crashed it
<bluesabre> it crashed faster this time, didn't lock up
<bluesabre> but still crashed
<krytarik> knome: Just noticed again, can we please capitalize it as "Getting Support" in the dropdown menu "Help & Support" on the website? >_>
<knome> krytarik, mayyyybe.
<ochosi> evening all
<bluesabre> evening ochosi 
<ochosi> heya bluesabre 
<bluesabre> ochosi: what's up?
<ochosi> just hanging out a little and reading up on some stuff i heard today
<ochosi> what about you?
<bluesabre> not much, getting ready to put dinner together
<ochosi> true that doesnt sound very exciting :p
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> probably going to clean a bit tonight and play games, and tomorrow review parole bugs and apply fixes, and do a catfish release
<ochosi> oh ok, i remember now, you wanted a "replay" icon for parole
<bluesabre> should probably also install xenial tomorrow
<bluesabre> yeah, that'd be a cool thing, making that center icon a play/replay button
<bluesabre> I've seen a few folks click on it to have nothing happen :)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> ppl tend to expect that now thanks to youtube etc
<ochosi> i guess the replay icon basically will be the "reload" icon
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> crap
<ochosi> i seemingly never pushed an svg for that icon
<bluesabre> D:
<ochosi> also can't find the source anywhere
<ochosi> it's even possible i drew that in gimpp...
<ochosi> i guess the only sane way forward is to redraw both icons in inkscapee
<ochosi> and push the svvgs to the repo and only install the pngs
<bluesabre> ochosi: sounds like a bit of a pain, that can probably wait a little bit until parole goes into devel for 0.9.x
<ochosi> it's far less work than e.g. fixing up greybird for 3.18
<ochosi> should be done fairly quickly
<ochosi> maybe 30mins or so
<ochosi> maybe i can get it done tomorrow
<bluesabre> alrighty, cool
<ochosi> i'll also bump the resolution to 256x256
<ochosi> we can always downscale it if we want to
<bluesabre> sounds good
<ochosi> bluesabre: couldnt resist, i drew them icons up real quick
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> i can push the svgs as play and replay to the repo
<ochosi> also png if you wanna try them out
<bluesabre> sure, go ahead :D
<ochosi> not a full patch though
<ochosi> you still need to bend one path and include the new icon
<ochosi> is "play.png" and "replay.png" without any additional parole namespace ok for you?
<bluesabre> ochosi: that should be fine, these aren't themed
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> still
<ochosi> i mean it used to be "parole.png", not a very meaningful name...
<ochosi> but i felt like changing the name should be for the better
<bluesabre> yeah, thats fine by me :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: pushed
<ochosi> slightly changed the dimensions of the play icon
<ochosi> lemme know what you think
<ochosi> anyway, have fun, night everyone
<bluesabre> ochosi: looks good
<bluesabre> will probably scale to some degree https://i.imgur.com/VJK4XAp.png
<bluesabre> maybe scaling by window size or something, I'll think on it :)
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi!
#xubuntu-devel 2016-01-31
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i thought we could scale it a bit
<dkessel> flocculant: good day. testing session is today, in 30 minutes, or is my calendar totally out-of-date?
<flocculant> dkessel: it was - ~15 now :D
<dkessel> flocculant: good day. testing session is today, in 30 minutes, or is my calendar totally out-of-date:p
<dkessel> wha
 * dkessel needs to minify his fingers
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> hi akxwi-dave 
<flocculant> who's here for the package test session?
<jjfrv8> o/
<flocculant> hi Jack :)
<jjfrv8> howdy
<bluesabre> o/
<bluesabre> (for questions more than anything)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well if it's just Jack and dkessel we can just let them ask what they want :D
<knome> i guess i'm here too ;)
<MrTulias> \o
<flocculant> leave it for 5 minutes and then just open it up to questions anyone has I guess
<flocculant> hi MrTulias 
<MrTulias> hi 
<flocculant> MrTulias: did you get chance to look at the contributor docs?
<flocculant> hi akxwi-dave 
<MrTulias> yes
<flocculant> cool
<akxwi-dave> howdo
<flocculant> ok so with MrTulias and people from team I guess the best way would be for people to ask things
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, re the thunar crashes.. been trying to get my laptop to crash, but no matter what i throw at it, it wont
<flocculant> I'd assume that MrTulias will have most :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: :)
<flocculant> if not I'll start with a topic then see if that works :D
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave: is this with or without the thunar package currently in the xubunt-staging ppa (uploaded the night before last)?
<bluesabre> (or both)
<MrTulias> Sure, I do not know what to do if a fault occurs, how to report it
<jjfrv8> my only question is about filing bugs against dev packages. I've been unsuccessful in the past on a couple of occasions even following the instructions.
<flocculant> ok 
<flocculant> so let's do standard packages first 
<flocculant> MrTulias: assume you've got a fault with thunar and you've not been presented with the apport (crash/bug reporter) it's simply running that from a terminal
<flocculant> ubuntu-bug thunar
<flocculant> that'll start the reported up
<flocculant> MrTulias: try it now and you'll see what it does - you can abort
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, knome: this is with 1.6.10, i have the 3 development ppa installed, and do a daily update & upgrade
<jjfrv8> I just got 1.6.10-2 on my Vivid desktop. I have not had issues with 1.6.10-1. Haven't test on my X laptop yet.
<flocculant> MrTulias: did you see that? 
<MrTulias> Yes, I try it with MenuLibre
<flocculant> k - so that's how to report simply
<flocculant> if you're trying to do so with a package from a ppa then ubuntu-bug fails
<flocculant> to do that you're need to go to the launchpad page - https://launchpad.net/menulibre
<flocculant> from there you can manually report a bug, link in the Get involved section at top right
<knome> (or in the case that the projects upstream isn't launchpad https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/packagename)
<flocculant> what you find is though - none of the data that ubuntu-bug would provide happens - so you're basically at the whim of a dev asking
<flocculant> for our ppa's - the dev's are all in team - so they would ask
<flocculant> bluesabre: wouldn't you :D
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> :)
<jjfrv8> That might be where I want wrong. The two different methods don't show in the QA docs.
<knome> jjfrv8, let's fix that :)
<jjfrv8> ok :)
<flocculant> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html#qa-bugs-ppa
<knome> right, let's not fix that ;)
<flocculant> and above it the ubuntu-bug way :)
<flocculant> jjfrv8: the docs got a pretty massive overhaul 
<knome> i propose to add new subheadings for that part
<flocculant> mmh
<knome> eg. one "Reporting bugs" header, then subheading "Regular bugs", "Bugs in PPA packages"
<knome> or sth
<knome> might make it a bit more obvious
<flocculant> but there are some other changes to ppa to add in when bluesabre has them set up
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> MrTulias: following ok? 
<bluesabre> I should have those updated this week
<MrTulias> yes, I see it
<flocculant> okey doke 
<jjfrv8> I'm still confused.
<MrTulias> but not updated, sorry
<knome> jjfrv8, ubuntu-bug when the package isn't from a PPA, manual reporting when it is (developers will ask for more data)
<jjfrv8> The "Reporting bugs with PPAs section only lists one way to file a bug, not the one flocculant mentioned about the "Getting involved" link on LP
<flocculant> jjfrv8: oic - the one in the docs is basically the shortcut to what I said
<flocculant> but we can make that more obvious perhaps
<jjfrv8> ah, but I think when I've tried that in the past, it said sth like "no such package".
<flocculant> ok
<knome> the package names aren't always completely obvious
<knome> i guess..
<flocculant> jjfrv8: I've seen similar - or I've seen where something says "we don't really use launchpad"
<flocculant> I suppose in those outliers best to ask someone
<knome> actually
<knome> one situation where LP might say that
<knome> if you are trying to file a bug against a virtual package created by another package
<knome> for example, (IIRC), the slideshow has a virtual package ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu, which is created by the source package ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<flocculant> jjfrv8: better now? 
<jjfrv8> Yup, think so :)
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> MrTulias: how about you? 
<MrTulias> fine
<flocculant> ok - other questions? 
<jjfrv8> not I
<flocculant> I can ask one :)
 * bluesabre hands flocculant the mic
<flocculant> does everyone understand what we mean when we talk about exploratory testing?
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks :p
<jjfrv8> you mean if we understand, why no one does it?
<flocculant> not really - just making sure people do understand :D
<bluesabre> the thunar bug is a good example I'd imagine, reporting a bug as you find it through normal usage
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> MrTulias: anything else you want to talk about?
<jjfrv8> I just have to remember to periodically update the tracker if I'm paying attention to that kind of thing.
<flocculant> yea
<MrTulias> The tests must be repeated on each update?
<knome> every time you test, you have to report, yeah
<flocculant> MrTulias: say you found a bug in menulibre, then it gets an update, you would want to see if the still saw the bug
<knome> that too :)
<bluesabre> +1
<knome> that's why there's a list of the bugs to look for in the tracker
<flocculant> the bug report itself - should get set fix released
<flocculant> assuming that the update included it
<flocculant> MrTulias: was that what you meant? 
<jjfrv8> in the specific case of Thunar, is testing the latest on vivid still valid? (I do plan to install xenial on my desktop in the next few days)
<MrTulias> They are discussing the bug thunar, I did not have any. I wondering if I should repeat the test to update
<jjfrv8> I mean wily
<akxwi-dave> if you have the luxury of testing on both, it would be great..
<flocculant> MrTulias: are you testing on xenial? do you have ppa enabled? 
<knome> testing with the development version (eg. xenial) is the best, but sometimes tests with other releases might be just as valid
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: generally, we push ppa fixes to the most recent release (in this case wily) and current development (xenial)
<bluesabre> when in doubt, go for xenial :)
<akxwi-dave> There was a bug that seeme to only happen on xenial with the ppa's, but those same ppa's on wiley didnt have the bug
<knome> in the situation akxwi-dave mentioned, tests with wily are less meaningful
<jjfrv8> yup, got it today on wily and that's the machine that gets the most real-life testing
<knome> i mean once that's figured out
<knome> but when a bug happens on both releases, then it's fine to test with that
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave: that's good information to add to the bug report, can help to identify the source of the bug
<knome> considering the new version we are testing has landed to the PPA
<knome> but ultimately, we always want at least some tests on the development release
<flocculant> MrTulias: so if you're using the ppa and xenial and not seeing the bug - then that's what bluesabre would want to hear :)
<bluesabre> yes, very much so
<jjfrv8> thanks, flocculant et al. This has been a help. Gotta head out now.
<flocculant> obviously he'd want to hear if it didn't as well - but not as happily :)
<flocculant> jjfrv8: ok thanks for asking things :)
<flocculant> it's always easy to assume everyone knows what *you* do 
<jjfrv8> :)
<akxwi-dave> :)
<bluesabre> thanks jjfrv8!
<flocculant> MrTulias: anything else?
<MrTulias> nop
<MrTulias> at moment :p
<flocculant> anyone else? 
<flocculant> if not we'll call it :)
<bluesabre> I'm good
<flocculant> MrTulias: obviously you can just come here and ask things if they pop up
<knome> or the mailing list
<flocculant> yep
<MrTulias> ok, thanks
<flocculant> thank you :)
<flocculant> biab then
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-23
<flocculant> bluesabre: how long do you think we should wait re the lock issue before reminding r_a he was going to take a look?
<bluesabre> flocculant, I think its safe to remind now
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll try and remember this evening when he's around then
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: iso boot to desktop thing has now been seen in gnome and budgie - with a couple of bug reports - ours is now a dupe - but one is marked high importance at least
<akxwi-dave> Yup cheers saw the emails come in wonder if my little post in ubuntu-dev  helped?
<flocculant> perhaps - don't idle there :p
 * flocculant wanders of to logs 
<flocculant> entirely possible :D
 * flocculant bores himself stupid installing 'flavours' to test lock there
<akxwi-dave> lol have fun sir..
 * flocculant really should work out how to do that in qemu ... 
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> wxl: you're affected by bug 1656399
<ubottu> bug 1656399 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Unable to unlock Xubuntu XFCE session after suspend." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1656399
<flocculant> also seems I made a mistake when checking old versions of lightdm - one I said works doesn't
<flocculant> which makes it appear to be pitti's change in November 
<ochosi> flocculant: hey, what's the state of the locking issue in a nutshell? is it lightdm now, or is it us? or pitti? or transitioning to systemd again?
<flocculant>  ochosi I think it's lightdm
<flocculant> at least if I revert to an older lightdm then locking works
<flocculant> confirmed the same behaviour in lubuntu earlier today
<ochosi> humm right
<flocculant> ochosi: and light-locker is at same version as it is in yakkety
<ochosi> any reaction so far from robert on this issue?
<flocculant> only that he wanted a lightdm.log 
<ochosi> yeah, light-locker is not really actively maintained these days, so i'm not surprised it's the same version ;)
<flocculant> but then I've not been hounding him either
<ochosi> right, i guess he would be the right person to go with
<flocculant> hence pinging Sean about that earlier
<flocculant> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/l/lightdm/lightdm_1.21.1-0ubuntu2/changelog
<ochosi> if you can provide the lightdm.log and follow through with him if he needs more that'd be awesome
<flocculant> is when it fails
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - he has that on the bug - 5 minutes after he asked :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> nice work
<flocculant> expecting him to show up soonish in -desktop - I will ping him there and nudge a bit :D
<flocculant> we should sue the same lock as Ubuntu - then if it fails it's easier lol 
<flocculant> sue/use
<flocculant> ochosi: just a quick one - which package would this bug need to be against on xfce bugs? I'll report (or find existing) upstream to link against bug 1658772
<ubottu> bug 1658772 in thunar (Ubuntu) "xubuntu, thunar, desktop background" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1658772
<flocculant> someone I don't know about using zesty xubuntu :)
<flocculant> biab
<flocculant> ochosi: pinged him in -desktop 
<ochosi> flocculant: that works for me (re: xfdesktop)
<ochosi> it's not recursive
<ochosi> so it doesn't loop over all subdirs
<ochosi> but it works as expected
<flocculant> ochosi: odd why it is different in yak 
<ochosi> i don't think it is
<ochosi> the xfdesktop version should be exactly the same
<flocculant> well - it looks different - I see zesty as the reported screenie and yak as the one I linked
<flocculant> definitely different
<flocculant> ochosi: if you've 5 could you pop by -desktop?
<flocculant> re the lock thing - I can't answer a question :D
<flocculant> ochosi: basically I can't answer " do you think light-locker hasn't completed all its actions before it's killed?"
<ochosi> hmm, the xfdesktop thing doesn't make sense to me, so the open file dialog has the right side disabled and you can't click anything?
<flocculant> ochosi: yea
<flocculant> and if, for instance, I had pics in /home/pics - I can't pick it - BUT if I had /home/pics in thunars sidepane then I can
<ochosi> sry, gotta run
<ochosi> bbia
<ochosi> b
<flocculant> yep - cya
<ochosi> flocculant: so maybe a good idea (following up on robert's comment): test with a different greeter (e.g. unity-greeter or something) and see whether it's actually a greeter problem (i.e. the greeter crashing or something
<flocculant> ochosi: just saw that - was just installing it :p
<ochosi> awesome :)
<flocculant> omg
<ochosi> ?
<flocculant> can you think of a greeter which doesn't install the world with it ... 
<flocculant> unity-g isn't much better than the kde one lol
<ochosi> hm, there used to be some html greeter
<ochosi> but tbh ours was always the lightest
<ochosi> so even with --no-install-recommends?
<ochosi> i thought then unity-greeter isn't that bad..
<flocculant> 99 to newly install
<ochosi> :/
<flocculant> no install recommends is better :D
<flocculant> ok couple of reboots coming up
<ochosi> ok cool
<knome> flocculant, re: requirements, check mailing list :)
<flocculant> ochosi: first things first - unity greeter fails to start session
<flocculant> secondly why do I do this to myself :(
<knome> flocculant, slightly masochistic?
<flocculant> forgot removing our greeter took out default settings - which left me with an xfce session
<flocculant> now I've got rebuild my desktop and shortcuts ... 
<flocculant> I have so many vm's I could test in first ... 
<flocculant> knome: slightly idiotic more like :p
<knome> :P
<knome> close, close
<flocculant> omg lots of words in that mail :p
<ochosi> oh, sry to hear
<flocculant> ochosi: anyway - in a short while I'll test unity-greeter with recommends
<flocculant> see what that does
<flocculant> just want to get the desktop set again :)
<ochosi> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - installing in a vm now :p
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> I'd set some low time to test lock earlier - now it's locked half way through installing ...
<flocculant> ochosi: nope - no go with unity-greeter 'Failed to start session'
<ochosi> that's odd, but add that to the bug report
<ochosi> maybe it helps robert somehow...
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> ochosi: he wants greeter log - any clue where that is?
<slickymaster> sure flocculant
<slickymaster> if you want me to review anything, ping me please
<flocculant> oh - yea - that's dealt with now - thanks anyway :)
<slickymaster> :)
<flocculant> I was a bit 0_0 there ... 
<slickymaster> lol
<flocculant> ochosi: I assume he means the one in /var/log/lightdm *shrug*
<flocculant> biab after I force reboot following failed lock ... 
<knome> team has mail re: t-shirts
<flocculant> now I just need to work out why keyboard shortcuts aren't working :(
<knome> minor! :)
<flocculant> says you ... 
<flocculant> :p
<knome> i was joking
<knome> :P
<flocculant> now I shall get back to my Starter for 10 mail in reply
<flocculant> yea I know :)
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks for following up
<flocculant> ochosi: no problem :)
<flocculant> knome: just a very quick one - have we thought much about a first boot screen like mate/budgie ever? 
<flocculant> spent a boring hour this afternoon installing 'flavours' to test lock - the budgie one intrigued me a bit
<knome> there has been talk about OEM stuff, i don't know about that kind of thing though
<flocculant> s/have we thought much in the past about
<knome> it's a bit intertwined, so should be discussed all at once
<flocculant> not so sure about that
<knome> i'm all for that if there's need/willingness to do something like that and the technology is "ready out there"
<flocculant> I'll just grab a screenshot of the budgie one
<knome> poke bluesabre ^
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/vEXq7dL.png
<knome> right...
<flocculant> some of the options have quite a lot of text
<knome> yes, and this is quite the information overload
<flocculant> the choice there being 'buttons' 
<knome> we kind of do the sameish with the slideshow
<flocculant> well kind of
<flocculant> anyway - was just a thought come question
<flocculant> now though I am going to do like zebedee and split :)
<flocculant> night peeps 
<knome> nighty
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-24
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: rebuilding iso's - should be a ubiquity fix 
<Unit193> I use it with 1G, think VMs I give 512.
<slickymasterWork> 1G in VMs, myself
<akxwi-dave> 2g for me, but 1g  works fine
<knome> so how about 512?
<knome> i mean, the minimum is... minimum
<knome> eg. "you can run and you can get applications open and start working"
<knome> not "this is the smooth experience we imagined"
<knome> (recommended is closer to that)
<Unit193> Well...It functions in VM...
<Unit193> In the most basic sense of the word if nothing else.
<knome> :)
<akxwi-dave> works with 512, but you wouldn't want a lot of apps open at once, and they do take noticabley longer to open
<slickymasterWork> I'll set up a 512 VM at work this afternoon knome and will perform some testing
<knome> akxwi-dave, yes, sure
<knome> akxwi-dave, maybe we could explain a bit more what "minimum" and "recommended" means on the new version...
<knome> eg. minimum -> run one application at a time
<knome> recommened -> run several applications at a time as long as they are not very resource consuming
<knome> (but word it much better than that)
<flocculant> knome: just running in and out - but what are we telling people Xubuntu is? A smooth useful experience or a bunch of judderiness
<flocculant> bbl
<knome> flocculant, yes, that's the reason the minimum requirements shouldn't be too low... but otoh minimum has never meant "this is what we intended you to run this with" with any OS/game/whatever software
<knome> and obviously it's not about the memory amount only, CPU also affects the performace
<knome> on lower end machines, i don't think the hard drive is that big of a deal unless it's some ancient piece
<akxwi-dave> I would add caveat's to the minimum spec along the lines of "you can run xubuntu with 512meg of ram, but performance may be limited, dependant upon your hardware"
<knome> yep, something like that
<knome> and i'd probably add a line mentioning the "one app at a time" policy to make it a bit more graspable
<flocculant> that would certainly help the "xubuntu is slow ... how much ram do you have? ... foo ... best install something else then' you see from time to time in #x 
<knome> yep
<knome> we need to do better than we do currently...
<flocculant> still think the minimum should be raised
<knome> maybe
<knome> i'm not qualified to make a good call about that
<flocculant> well none of us are - but nevertheless we need to :p
<knome> what i meant is that i'm the least qualified, so i'll leave that to others
<flocculant> when was the min last looked at? probably 3 years ago - and we would likely have then based that on 'old' machines kicking around still 3 years ago (if it was 3) 
<knome> that's possible
<knome> i don't remember really
<knome> it must've come up when we did the last website redesign
<flocculant> since then non-PAE has happened - what's the chances of some old old machine being able to run xubuntu now anyway?
<knome> i've no idea :)
<flocculant> or rather is a PAE machine likely to have more than 512
<knome> i understand what you're saying, but i don't know
<flocculant> it's always going to be guess work on our part
<knome> well... kind of :)
<knome> or maybe :(
<flocculant> but to my mind I would (if I was wanderng about lookiing for some linux to install) look on Xubuntu more kindly if I was told you need 1Gb ram than I would if I'd been told 512Mb and then found it was awful and had to look again, reinstall etc etc
<flocculant> is kind of where I'm coming from :)
<flocculant> in the first case I'd maybe come back when I had more ram - in the second I'd not
<flocculant> does that make my point make more sense :)
<knome> no no, it always made sense :)
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: ubiquity fix appears to have done the trick 
<flocculant> also keeping old 64bit iso's so we can track back a bit if needed
<akxwi-dave> yay..  just seen that with todays iso.... it works,,,,   sgt launcher from menus doesn't though.. still :-)
<akxwi-dave> wish i had seen your message earlier,, just deleted around 30 iso images I had in my downloads folder on this pc.. :-(
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: didn't know you were doing that :p
<flocculant> I'm only going to keep 1 arch though - issues we've been plagued with have been general
<akxwi-dave> lol.. wasn't actually saving them.. just all the downloads of each test iso on my work pc.. never got round to deleting them since before xmas..
<flocculant> oh right - well I decided it was a good plan to keep some - probably keep a month, then the 1st of *a* month after that
<flocculant> knome: finished looking at contributor docs now - got a bit of an issue with the way some of the docs page looks, but more importantly about some of the apps we translate and their relative importance
<flocculant> best to write that specific stuff as a bug? or pad? 
<flocculant> or make it part of the mp and go from there? 
<flocculant> I could add reasoning to the mp comments
<knome> flocculant, probably mp directly
<knome> flocculant, unless you think it requires thorough discussion
<knome> (and even then, i think people should know how to look at diffs enough so just do an mp :P)
<flocculant> knome: okey doke - works for me :)
<knome> cheerio
<flocculant> bye
<knome> no i meant thanks :P
<knome> unless you are going... :P
<flocculant> nope not yer :)
<knome> yeah i thought so
 * flocculant knew you meant cheers
<knome> heh
<flocculant> ochosi: thinking back to last time we had locking problems - I'm sure I tried unity greeter then - I wonder what's gone on to stop it working
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, not sure, tbh i've lost track of this a little
<ochosi> (the locking changes, the session stuff with systemd,...)
<ochosi> maybe bluesabre can help...
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-25
<bluesabre> ochosi, never understood the locking myself
<knome> lol
<Unit193> bluesabre: Any progress? :P
<flocculant> ochosi: :)
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre I guess we are back where we were last cycle - do we ditch l-l and use something else like xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver
<flocculant> Unit193: thanks for reminding me - I think g-s is what I was misrembering as unity-greeter 6 months ago
<flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - even assuming we get l-l working this cycle, that's now two cycles it's stopped working completely on us
<Unit193> VT switching is bad.
<flocculant>  nix g-s - problems there - will detail later
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> flocculant, ochosi, As light-locker is in a perpetual state of non-maintenance, VT-switching is terrible, and breaking is typical at least every 6 months, I am totally in favor of switching to something else
<bluesabre> Unit193, current opinion on file managers? I still think there's not a patch that actually fixes the issues without creating new ones in Thunar
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'll have to consider that at a better time perhaps, but I think I'm personally going to stick with Thunar.
<bluesabre> ok
<akxwi-dave> hmm a few hours ago we had Zesty A2 on the iso tracker.. now when I go to put up the testing results its gone...
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave, maybe flocculant pulled it off since I don't think we were planning on participating
<Unit193> [02:29:11] < flocculant> can someone from the release team get Xubuntu removed from this alpha 2 thing please :)
<akxwi-dave> lol.. typical..   :-)
<akxwi-dave> should have checked.. I thought we were doing A2, but when I saw it .. thought That it had been added for some reason I missed  :-)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: even if it was there we would need to critically fail and not release anyway :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack - I did do a quick test on g-s but problems there - not got time to look properly now but will thi evening
<flocculant> will also check if gnome actually locks ... 
<flocculant> and will check x-screensaver too
<akxwi-dave> aye just tested that suspend on the iso from today..same
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - ok done some testing - the outlook is poor ... pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-locking-zesty
<flocculant> I'll try and let r_a know later this evening what I've tried
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [cont1704] r628 Changes to contributor docs following review (by flocculant)
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/winners-lovexubuntu-competition/
<pleia2> :D
<knome> \o/
<pleia2> all social media-ed
<knome> hooray
<ochosi> flocculant: meh, have you forwarded this also to robert? to me this clearly shows that at least wrt light-locker it's a lightdm problem as the greeter wasnt touched. also: when it works, it seems to work best...
<knome> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: not specifically - have added it all to the bug though
<flocculant> and yea - as you say - seems to definitely point to a lightdm problem
<flocculant> have specifically now - I kept looking for him then stopped :p
<flocculant> Ask logind to terminate remaining processes in the greeter session on closing, which is more robust than trying to fix every greeter.
<flocculant> just broke us ...
<ochosi> :]
<flocculant> ochosi: as far as I can see now - I'll leave it be, unless I happen to stumble across something, and just wait and see 
<ochosi> sure
<flocculant> not much of anything I could do now - tried greeters, tried losing l-lock and adding others
<ochosi> yeah, i think you've done your job well
<ochosi> in the worst case we have to try to fix up the greeter
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<flocculant> budgie is broken too ... 
<flocculant> I didn't try the kde one nor unity8 but I've beaten my head against the rest :p
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-26
<bluesabre> flocculant, thanks for your investigation
<bluesabre> if we were to abandon light-locker, xs and gs could probably be patched to listen for lightdm's unlock
<flocculant> bluesabre: from a purely 'if it breaks again' my vote would go with gs simply because someone else uses it ...
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh right!  Reminder about the xfce icon theme?
<ochosi> flocculant, bluesabre: someone else uses it, but it's just as unmaintained... (light-locker is also used by others btw)
<Unit193> Yeah, but Ubuntu vs Lubuntu.
<Unit193> https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=gnome-screensaver Hmm.
<ochosi> ubuntu only uses it as fallback
<bluesabre> ochosi, right, but it does not require vt-switching or depend on another application or api, which are the three problems we keep having
<bluesabre> being dm-independent, it's also more xfce-like
<ochosi> bluesabre: right, but there are not so many other DMs you can nicely use with xfce anyway (apart from slim or whatnot)... GDM iirc was tightly integrated with gnome3/shell, not sure about kdm but i guess it also carries a butt-load of qt depends
<ochosi> bluesabre: anyway, i don't mind gnome-screensaver, just saying (what i noticed before, as i've been actively using it for a while): it has similar issues with wake-on-suspend and lid-switch
<flocculant> ochosi: not really sure we should go on this - currently have head in sand :0
<flocculant> ochosi: gdm and kdm > http://paste.ubuntu.com/23870031/
<flocculant> or rather sddm as kdm has gone in zesty
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, i'm not surprised
<flocculant> ochosi: neither me :p
<flocculant> slim doesn't look too bad - though it crashes without trace trying to lock that one :D
<flocculant> so it only looked ok for a short while ...
<flocculant> anyway not about too much tonight
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-27
<ochosi> flocculant, bluesabre: nice, same unlock bug witg unity greeter, robert is investigating. so we can hope this will just get fixed...
<flocculant> ochosi: cool - I only tested a lock/login cycle on ubuntu hence not seeing it
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-28
<bluesabre> ochosi, awesome
<bluesabre> appstream spec keeps changing :(
<bluesabre> use current example, Could not parse XML data: Entity: line 2: parser error : Start tag expected, '<' not found
<bluesabre> use old example, The metainfo file uses an ancient version of the AppStream specification, which can not be validated. Please migrate it to version 0.6 (or higher).
<bluesabre> apparently there is a required comment
<bluesabre> :\
<knome> isgh
<bluesabre> "The component ID is not a reverse domain-name. Please update the ID and that of the accompanying .desktop file to follow the latest version of the Desktop-Entry and AppStream specifications and avoid future issues."
<bluesabre> suppose that's the future
<bluesabre> Feels weird to have non-grouped project domains all over the place
<userfoo123> Hi, in 16.10 the background used by default, and the one used in plymouth (same one) features a very white lower section, this makes the startup messages (fsck etc) almost impossible to make out, i was gonna file a bug report before I noticed it was still there, just very hard to see
<userfoo123> I see the arguments for the Image.Text uses the default white (values are 1,1,1 on the rbg, maybe change it to something a bit darker in the next release if you are gonna use the same background :)
<bluesabre> userfoo123, thanks for the feedback, we mistakenly didn't consider the text color, that rarely breaks and we often have very different backgrounds for each release
<bluesabre> but nearly invisible text is indeed useless text :D
<userfoo123> ah I see, and yes indeed :P
<flocculant> userfoo123: it's certainly a comment we'll do our best to remember 
<ochosi> hey folks
<flocculant> evening ochosi 
<knome> hullo
<flocculant> hi knome too :)
<knome> oi
<flocculant> oi oi oi
<knome> humh, so that game run ended in twitch
<knome> what now
<knome> i mean ended like it spanned several days
<flocculant> 0_0
<knome> to be even more exact, it was like 7-8 hours a day for like 6 days in the last week :D
<knome> (i didn't watch it all, at least in 1x speed...)
<knome> but it was really interesting
<knome> if i played pc games, i'd probably buy that
<flocculant> :)
<knome> https://rimworldgame.com/
<knome> it's now in alpha 16
<knome> ugh, there are definitely different styles to play the game
<knome> don't like most i've seen..
#xubuntu-devel 2017-01-29
<ochosi> hi everyone
<ochosi> do we have a testcase for the thunar crashes written down somewhere?
<ochosi> (background: a new patch was posted to bugzilla yesterday, i haven't reviewed it but in a quick test i didn't manage to make thunar crash)
<flocculant> ochosi: http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/361/builds/117794/testcases
<ochosi> ok nice
<ochosi> yeah, so that one doesn't pass either
<flocculant> not using it currently though
<ochosi> filenames don't change
<flocculant> ochosi: yea - that is unfortunately the case - hence my 'do we really have to use thunar' pov :)
<ochosi> thunar in yak seems to pass the testcase for me here though
<flocculant> ochosi: mmm - well just keep trying the testcase - it will fail in the end :)
<ochosi> "the end"? :)
<flocculant> that's half the issue from my pov - it doesn't constantly crash :(
<ochosi> i've been running it for a few minutes now
<flocculant> if it 'always' crashed then fair play
<flocculant> it crashed on me about 20 times yesterday 
<ochosi> well that's sorta the definition of a race condition...
<flocculant> maybe so - didn't know that was the issue ;)
<ochosi> btw i was revisiting the wording for notifyd settings dialog again yesterday
<ochosi> how about "show or block notifications" for the applications tab?
<ochosi> then i could reuse the "block" in the log tab and say "only log blocked applications" or something
<flocculant> oh yuk :| ubiquity issue found that's not in ubuntu ...
<ochosi> meh, ubiquity...
<flocculant> ochosi: let me switch brain :)
<ochosi> you have more than oneÃ
<ochosi> Ã
<ochosi> ?
<ochosi> (btw, the testcase for thunar is still running here, it hasn't crashed)
<flocculant> yea - one that doesn't have ubuntu in it :D
<flocculant> ochosi: :
<flocculant> )
<flocculant> ochosi: show or block sounds ok to me :)
<ochosi> so the wording i've evaluated so far was: hide, block, mute, disable
<ochosi> and for the opposites it would be: display, show, enable
<flocculant> yea - I really dislike mute for it
<ochosi> yup, i remember :)
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> to be fair, in the future there may be sound support
<ochosi> it's part of the spec at leastt
<ochosi> (even though i personally hate sound for notifications...)
<flocculant> I suppose from one pov mute works - eg it mutes the signal
<flocculant> but berty up the road just running something is unlikely to think of that
 * flocculant should reinstall your notifications
<flocculant> oh dear - none of the a2 participants have their iso built turned on again :p
 * flocculant can't double check this bug ... 
<flocculant> ochosi: is it still at logging_rebased?
<ochosi> humm, thunar is still running and not crashing...
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it still is that branch
<ochosi> really wanna push it to msater though...
<flocculant> ta - I think I lost all that when I managed to kill my install fiddling with light/dm/locking
<ochosi> sur
<ochosi> e
<ochosi> i can also send you some screenhots though
<flocculant> sure
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/401GJaj.png
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/PIYvHdC.png
<flocculant> that's old :)
<flocculant> I remember the supermarket delivering :D
<ochosi> that's the state of the branch plus some changes that i've incorporated
<flocculant> ok - I grabbed it now etc
<ochosi> fwiw the screenshots are not the state of the branch
<ochosi> i'm a little ahead with string changes
<ochosi> e.g. mute vs. block
<ochosi> i'm still very unsure about the subtitle of the window
<flocculant> not sure what to say about 'show/hide' if it's going to get sound support in the future
<flocculant> ochosi: tbh I'm not convinced it needs a subtitle
<ochosi> maybe not, but then that looks odd too
<ochosi> then you have it in the window frame and in the white title section
<flocculant> does it - or is that because you 'expect' subtitle?
<flocculant> ochosi: or maybe Customise notifications and logging ?
<flocculant> as it stands 'appear' covers 66.6% of what it does now :)
<ochosi> you mean "customize how notifications appear"?
<ochosi> i think yeah, the subtitle is sorta my (visual) expectation
<ochosi> )
<flocculant> yup - appear does not work for the log tab
<ochosi> "customize your notification settings" :p
 * ochosi wanders off to cook
<flocculant> that works
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, pushed some of the string improvements
<flocculant> ochosi: that makes more sense to me now - looks good :)
<flocculant> one thing I wonder about now - on app tab because it says show or block - you could maybe lose the on/off words? 
<flocculant> or call them show/block instead? 
<flocculant> logic - words say show or block - buttons say on and off - is on showing or blocking ...
<flocculant> but  I could just be being a bit picky there :)
 * flocculant takes his turn wandering off to cook 
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, that would indeed make sense. show/blocked maybe instead of just show/block?
<ochosi> cause "block" sorta implies you wanna click if you wanna block...
<flocculant> yup
<flocculant> ochosi: oh - not sure if this is intentional or not - but if I click on an app in app tab it chnages the on/off state?
<flocculant> almost like the whole name + button is the button
<flocculant> https://sendvid.com/hkao24te just in case it isn't 
<ochosi> flocculant: yes, that is intentional. should help people click an app
<ochosi> also means it's not so problematic to drop the switch
<ochosi> (hopefully)
<ochosi> before though i have to consider whether i change the internal wording in the code and xfconf because atm it's mute everywhere
<flocculant> ochosi: ack - just wanted to make sure it was intentional :)
<flocculant> by mute everywhere - do you mean everywhere in xfce that this type of thing is - it is called mute?
<flocculant> if so then I can understand you ummming and aahing on it :)
<flocculant> anyway - back later today
<ochosi> no, just in xfce4-notifyd
<ochosi> muting is older than logging
<ochosi> initially i called it that
<ochosi> aka in the current stable release
<ochosi> anyway, i think i'll push the current state to master
<bluesabre> morning all
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - well I hope I helped some :)
<flocculant> morning bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> how's it going?
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/tHCyoEI.png
<bluesabre> hey ochosi 
<bluesabre> going pretty well
<flocculant> that's confusing - all from this installation - all opened slightly different ways
<bluesabre> Releasing new sgt-launcher right now
<flocculant> \o/
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm prepping a release for taskman and notifyd atm
<bluesabre> ochosi, \o/
<ochosi> odd that the xfcetitleddialog doesn't seem to be working for flocculant 
<flocculant> bluesabre: you likely to get to gtk3 settings today? 
<bluesabre> flocculant, that is the plan
<ochosi> bluesabre: maybe we have to cherry-pick a commit of mine from libxfce4ui
<ochosi> bbabl
<bluesabre> ochosi, alright
<flocculant> bluesabre: cool :)
<bluesabre> noticed that the new sgt-puzzles package in zesty is using gtk3
<bluesabre> as a result, the menu is always faded because the embedded window is always in a non-active state
<flocculant> the 'game' menu I assume you mean
<bluesabre> yeah
<flocculant> I didn't take a lot of notice of that I'm afraid
<flocculant> and what's xfcetitleddialog when it's at home?
<bluesabre> lazy
<flocculant> ha ha 
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sgt-launcher/0.2.2-0ubuntu1 uploaded, includes appstream data so it will show in gnome-software :)
<flocculant> I might install it to see it showing up then :p
<flocculant> not sgt ftr :D
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: it works as well :p
<flocculant> knome: re the discussion sometime ago about oem
<flocculant> I'd have the same discussion about whether we should test lvm/encryption
<flocculant> akxwi-dave bluesabre ^^
<akxwi-dave> very good point there flocculant 
<flocculant> I'd be inclined to think more people are likely to do that than oem
<akxwi-dave> oh yes, you cannot nelieve the size of the fucisha bush she wanted me to dig out
<flocculant> sounds like The Great Esacpe then :)
<flocculant> \o/ os-prober lost all my other installs 
<flocculant> for one horrible minute I'd not just deleted the partition I wanted to ;)
<akxwi-dave> ouch
<flocculant> downgraded it - reran update-grub then updated it again :p
<flocculant> I much prefer finding issues that aren't xubuntu 
<akxwi-dave> hehe more fun that way
<bluesabre> flocculant, your non-xubuntu-specific bugs are the best ones, keep those coming
<bluesabre> flocculant, and yes, we should probably test lvm/encryption, though those will almost never be xubuntu-specific bugs
<bluesabre> (but they could be)
<flocculant> yea agree on the specificity there
<flocculant> bluesabre: I can easily add the tests to our stuff on tracker
<bluesabre> Sounds reasonable to me
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> bluesabre: added now
<knome> flocculant, yeah, why not
<knome> flocculant, though i believe there is less (think: none) xubuntu-specific components involved with that
<flocculant> well the only why not for this is the same as the why not for oem :p
<flocculant> yea - but probably useful to at least test it
<knome> because some components in an OEM installation are xubuntu-specific (those in the config)
<flocculant> currently set it for mandatory - but we can see how it goes and change that
<knome> but yes, maybe they could all be once a cycle or so
<knome> but i'm open for all kinds of experiments
<flocculant> we'll keep that for -offtopic with the gardening I think 
<flocculant> :p
<flocculant> knome: trouble with 'once a cycle or so' is when and then - bug might land post 'we checked that'
<flocculant> we could change it to run-once - add OEM as run-once than 'forget about worrying' till milestones
<flocculant> s/than/then
<knome> once likely being later in the cycle
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> mmm
<ochosi> evening all
<flocculant> hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> alrighty, i think i'll merge the logging_rebased branch to master of xfce4-notifyd now
<ochosi> then translators can start their work
<ochosi> which will actually be quite a bit this time around
<ochosi> thanks for testing and input, flocculant 
<flocculant> ochosi: np :)
<ochosi> wow, even found and fixed another small bug with the log
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: can you take a peek at whether taskmanager from git master is packageable, i.e. just to see whether i forgot any depends or so in the build process
<bluesabre> libxfce4ui 4.13.1 added to xfce4-gtk3 ppa, xfce4-settings uploaded to same and currently building
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-23
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r541 Bring back toolbar gradient in Gtk3 (fixes #203)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r542 Make lightdm-gtk-greeter's restart button blue (fixes #206)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<pjotter> Hi everyone. I have a problem involving ipv4 and ipv6 in Xubuntu. Can I ask in here?
<pjotter> I'm trying to find out why, in a fresh installation of Xubuntu, wget -first- tries an ipv4 download and then ipv6.
<pjotter> I thought it should be the other way around? First ipv6 and then ipv4?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-24
<Hrishi_> hi
<flocculant> ochosi: had a plymouth update today - login screen seems to now use the default wallpaper - rather than using what's on desktop 
<Unit193> That's lightdm.
<Unit193> cat /var/lib/AccountsService/users/$USER
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-25
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-mate/atril.git/commit/debian/control?id=72a65f9de3ff8dd3252cf712b431c092c6421066 ?
<Unit193> Ah, https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-mate/atril.git/commit/debian/control?id=63a59a631846742d08f75d8329afea0fbef45faf
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-timer-plugin 1.7.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-timer-plugin-1-7-0-released-tp50511.html (by AndrÃ© Miranda)
<flocculant> then I had a lightdm update which did what I thought plymouth did
<Unit193> Yes.
<flocculant> whichever it is - now have a meh wallpaper at login ...
<Unit193> Still interested in the result of the command I pasted.
<flocculant> https://paste.ubuntu.com/26456458/
<flocculant> that at least is the wallpaper on the desktop
<Unit193> Ah right, it reads not sets.  Silly me.
<flocculant> re that issue with lightdm - is this something the update caused? do we care - should it be reported?
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi ^^
<Unit193> flocculant: It's known, LightDM went from using a patched accountsservice to actually using an extension of the application, xfdesktop4 needs updated for this.
<Unit193> LP 1494491
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1494491 in Light Display Manager "Use accountsservice extensions for background, keyboard layouts, has-messages" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1494491
<Unit193> * Use AccountsService extension system for extended greeter information
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-26
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre: I've just commited a fix forhttps://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=884587
<ubottu> Debian bug 884587 in engrampa "engrampa: Drop unused dependencies for lighter installation requirements" [Wishlist,Open]
<flexiondotorg> I've upload MATE 1.19 (last dev snapshots before MATE 1.20).
<flexiondotorg> That Engrampa change you requested will be in the Engrampa 1.20 upload.
<flexiondotorg> Which I expect will be in 2 - 3 weeks.
<flexiondotorg> Sorry for taking so long to get to that.
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: but you got to it, so I can't complain :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: will look into the xfdesktop issue this weekend, thanks for the heads up
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke
<Unit193> bluesabre: Nice
<Unit193> Woohoo!  libgail-3-0 no longer is depended on, so I can remove at-spi2-core.
<ochosi> bluesabre, flocculant: that greeter issue was announced before and i also mentioned it in here: the accountsservice patches by ubuntu finally made it upstream in a slightly altered form, so now the routine to get the user wallpaper has changed in lightdm
<ochosi> bluesabre, flocculant: or actually: it probably has to be changed in xfdesktop, because it's not setting it correctly anymore (iirc)
<Unit193> ochosi: I think I said most of that, yep.  And first time you mentioned it, wondered aloud if that means xfdesktop patches could go upstream
<ochosi> Unit193: yup, right
<ochosi> i guess the action part was missing :)
<flocculant> ochosi: I had a vague recollection of you saying something like that ... 
<knome> i think i have a workable idea for the wallpaper...
<knome> well actually that's false
<knome> i have already worked it a bit :P
#xubuntu-devel 2018-01-28
<Satorisanja> moin
<Satorisanja>  Wie sieht es mit einer neuinstallation aus?
<flocculant> !en | Satorisanja 
<ubottu> Satorisanja: The main Ubuntu IRC channels are English only.  For a complete list of channels in other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<bluesabre> if everything goes right, should be a new catfish coming down the debian-bionic pipe later today
<bluesabre> and it's on its way to debian
<flocculant> woohoo :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: confirmed bug 1731608 here
<ubottu> bug 1731608 in catfish (Ubuntu) "catfish seems to regard folder names with '.' in the middle of a string as hidden folders" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1731608
<Unit193> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-24
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.6.16 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-6-16-released-tp52541.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-3-released-tp52542.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-25
<adsr> xpost #xfce -- Hello, I have a patch that adds some features to xfce4-terminal and I'm having trouble regnerating the ui. Is there an additional `make` target? https://gist.github.com/adsr/5720f5c575149ae2aadea775e8779b7d 
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-26
<JackFrost> I guess the pcre2 issue was resolved, someone sync'd xfce4-terminal from Unstable.
<Dusan> Hello
<Dusan> I have basic knowledge of English and I would like to help improving Xubuntu
<brainwash> hi Dusan 
<Dusan> I dont have a clue about anything related to Xubuntu 
<Dusan> Hello
<brainwash> you should read through this https://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<Dusan> Yeah I've seen that
<Dusan> Ive came to this throught that page
<brainwash> alright
<Dusan> But
<brainwash> got any particular question?
<Dusan> I still dont know where should i begin with
<Dusan> Yes, what should I do if i want to contribute?
<brainwash> which part of xubuntu do you want to improve?
<Dusan> Well
<Dusan> Any is good
<Dusan> Hardest might work for me
<brainwash> hardest would be actually fixing bugs and writing new code
<Dusan> Thats what i would love in the first place
<Dusan> But
<Dusan> Where to start?
<Dusan> And can I contact you later xubuntu related :)
<brainwash> https://xubuntu.org/contribute/development/
<Dusan> oh im so dumb
<Dusan> i didnt want to click on any since i had no idea where to start :D
<Dusan> im sorry
<Dusan> and thank you very much :)
<Dusan> btw.
<Dusan> can i learn to code with my english?
<brainwash> your english seems perfectly fine
<Dusan> i dont have full knowledge (ill go to English lessons soon)
<Dusan> Okay
<Dusan> Thank you <brainwash>
<Dusan> You all have a good day :)
<brainwash> feel free to stay in this channel and ask questions
<Dusan> Okay
<Dusan> Should i use google translate if i dont know the words?
<brainwash> bluesabre and ochosi are both Xfce developers also
<Dusan> like respositary :D
<brainwash> sure, use google translate
<Dusan> Okay thanks :)
<Dusan> By the way
<Dusan> One more thing
<Dusan> Im sorry i had someone at my door
<Dusan> Can I find a job with development of linux?
<Dusan> I dont have a job atm
<Dusan> And im ready to work :D
<brainwash> you won't get paid for working on xubuntu
<brainwash> or xfce
<Dusan> No no thats not what i meant
<brainwash> it's a community effort
<Dusan> What I meant is 
<Dusan> When i learn to code and develop
<brainwash> sure
<Dusan> with that knowledge can i find a job related?
<Dusan> I understand :)
<brainwash> it will take time to learn
<brainwash> and gain experience
<Dusan> And im willing to help as I said :D
<Dusan> I was just curious :)
<Dusan> Thanks anyway 
<Dusan> I mean
<Dusan> thanks :D
<brainwash> good luck then :)
<Dusan> thank you ^_^
<Dusan> Thank you <brainwash> again, i must say goodbye because I'm switching to Ubuntu for developing it :)
<Dusan> Good day.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-01-27
<brainwash> bluesabre: just a reminder that all x-d-s reports have a solution/fix
<bluesabre> brainwash: thanks!
<brainwash> bluesabre: add bug 1796144 to the SRU blueprint?
<ubottu> bug 1796144 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "ubuntu 18.04 bionic xfwm4 backport 4.12.5" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1796144
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar 1.8.4 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-1-8-4-released-tp52582.html (by Alexander Schwinn-2)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-20
<bluesabre> JackFrost: not as much as I probably should tbh
<ochosi_> hi everyone, unfortunately my remote bouncer for irc discontinued my account and I'm currently on holidays, so I'll truly be afk until next weekend
<ochosi_> also, if anyone has a spare place for SSH+screen+irssi, I'm looking for one now :)
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<pleia2> ochosi: emailed regarding that :)
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-22
<astraljava> Ok, this random screenlocking glitch is really causing loss of productivity now. Is there someone here who could help in debugging the issue further?
<astraljava> Is it worthwhile to do any bughunting, or recommended to switch to xscreensaver, still? 
<JackFrost> Are you using light-locker or xfce4-screensaver?
<astraljava> I checked that the latter is the only thing installed on my machine.
<astraljava> I have tried to parse logs that I can think of, but there's no sign of any entries. Or at least anything so direct that I could spot it.
<brainwash> astraljava: caused by having a second monitor?
<brainwash> astraljava: there is a patch here https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16327#c8
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 16327 in General "Screen being locked at random even if device is being used and not idle" [Normal,New]
<astraljava> brainwash: I dunno, it has happened at least once without, but yeah I do use an external monitor every once in a while. Cheers, I'll check that out.
<astraljava> Well, this is much fun. At first, that bug seemed to match. I wanted to test this, so I headed to Screensaver settings. To my surprise, it was set off. :o
<astraljava> But what's even funnier, the minute count there still stands, meaning even if the screensaver is set off, it will still fire and lock the screen as mentioned in the settings.
<astraljava> Yep, if I set lock screen to not follow screensaver, the screen only blanks. Though I set the screensaver theme as Random, from Blank, so there's that, too. :D
<astraljava> Sheesh, talk about one broken product.
<astraljava> Still need to test that 5 minute marker separately, but that's for later as now I gotta work some.
<brainwash> the screensaver/locker business is a cruel one
<astraljava> It's nasty, when you want to double check that your screen won't turn black during presentations. You switch it off, but alas, it won't be hindered with such mere lackluster efforts.
<astraljava> Hmm.. another worry. Suddenly one of my xfce4-terminal windows stopped receiving keystrokes. Everything else worked, I could minimize it, use menus etc. Just wouldn't type.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-01-23
<bluesabre> astraljava: I've got a bunch of fixes lined up for the screensaver that I'm testing currently... will hopefully have a release this weekend that makes everything work way better
<JackFrost> Huh, there appears to be a new xfce4-panel-profiles.  Should I get to packaging things?
<bluesabre> Sure, go for it :)
<bluesabre> Been hard at coding the last few days
<JackFrost> Oh hey, I forgot to link https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2020/01/msg00002.html
<bluesabre> Looks relatively painless
<JackFrost> Disco is EOL, just removed that (and cosmic) from all PPAs.
<genii> Isn't 19.10 good until July?
<JackFrost> `distro-info -f -yeol --supported` no longer lists it, but true I didn't see an official announcement, only flavor.
<astraljava> bluesabre: Oh, that's great news! I'll be busy most likely the whole weekend, but early next week I can beta test it if you need.
