#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-08
<Takyoji> I'm ecstatic that the Ubuntu Marketing mailing list is actually active and collaboratively discussing
<Takyoji> Hah; if we had 2 more people, we'd have more people than those on the Ubuntu Marketing IRC channel
<Takyoji> There should be more commoners to the channel
<Takyoji> (of the marketing channel)
<Takyoji> It seems that people get enthusiastic, and start something, and work hard, while nobody else is really responsive or caring about the work, then the enthusiastic individual gives up and doesn't put forth any more effort.
<Takyoji> i.e. Spread Ubuntu
<Takyoji> The person that started the Spread Ubuntu website tried to help create an active community for developing marketing materials, and started initiatives and goals, and nobody really was active, and the Canonical folk in charge of the ubuntu-marketing.org (which points to nothing) didn't care to ever point the domain to the Spread Ubuntu website. Thus due to the lack of activity, the person that started Spread Ubuntu has pretty m
<Takyoji> uch given up working on it
<Takyoji> We should try getting members of the Minnesota Ubuntu LoCo also active in the Ubuntu Marketing group; it just needs a little love...
<Takyoji> or other dying groups
 * Takyoji continues preaching a sermon that nobody cares about. :P
<mr_steve> Hmm.. I like what you're saying; marketing is just one of those things that it's hard to get people excited about
<Takyoji> I'd love to work on marketing materials for example; but if I ever ask for critique or ideas, I'll never get an answer
<Takyoji> Everytime
<Takyoji> (at least on the IRC channel of Ubuntu marketing)
<Takyoji> Anyone artistic, statistical, or literate can contribute, or even write materials on how to contribute
<mr_steve> Yeah, it's always tricky getting responses on anything in a timely fashion.
<mr_steve> I treat the #ubuntu-motu channel almost like email now, I ask a question, and check my hilights window every few hours for a reply
<Takyoji> As with anything, I would love to actively collaborate with others in realtime, but it typically seems everyone just prefers doing their own little thing quietly
<mr_steve> that does seem to be the case, generally
<Takyoji> I think more could be done, and more effectively, if people would discuss and work together more
<Takyoji> more could be accomplished*
<mr_steve> hmm, the Awseome window manager seems kind of... awesome
<Takyoji> heh
<Takyoji> Looks interesting
<mr_steve> I love the picture on their website of the workstation with like 7 displays
<mr_steve> I want it
<Takyoji> heheheh
<Takyoji> I'd love it too. :P
<Takyoji> I wish I could just have monitors for everything
<mr_steve> Me too
<mr_steve> Hey, you ever see the movie Grandma's Boy?
<Takyoji> One for some IRC channels, another for instant messaging, another for email, another from web browsing, etc
<Takyoji> Haven't seen it
<mr_steve> Ah
<mr_steve> There's a programmer who writes code laying back in a reclined seat with a bunch of huge screens over his head
<Takyoji> heh ahh
<Takyoji> http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/8/22/633549610887460903-internetgetreadyforliftoff.jpg
<h00k> moar like Internet ready for a nobel peace prize.
<Takyoji> and then have a little IDS on my servers, and have a client on my desktop that would do movie-like warnings whenever there is an attempted brute-force attack or something. :P
<Obsidian1723> better to have an IPS actually as primary, IDS as merely logging.
<Takyoji> I had a timer running on my desktop (the GNOME panel applet), and noticed when the pizza's ready. And my friend thought I had my oven rigged to detect when the pizza was done or something. xP
<Takyoji> Well yea
<Takyoji> I'd also love to have something to display activity and usage on any server I assist with in realtime
<Takyoji> Such as MySQL requests, CPU usage, RAM, etc
<Takyoji> HTTP requests, connected IPs, etc
<Takyoji> I would absolutely love such a solution
<Takyoji> I love this as well: http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/items/free_games/Images/quake_24_screens.jpg
<mr_steve> I like to have a terminal up showing my logs, preferably colorized
<Takyoji> of course that might be a little excessive though. :P
<mr_steve> It's usually just information overload, but if I notice that something's acting screwy I can just glance over and see if something's breaking
<mr_steve> hm, I think awesome is going to be my window manager from here on out, but it sure has a learning curve
<Takyoji> I know I could probably do such with SSH; but I'm a freak that I wouldn't want to have a direct connection to the root account or anything of the server; I'd like something that would just tell me statistics, and that if it were ever "broken into" that all a person could do is get statistics rather than run anything on the system
<Takyoji> (if that makes sense)
<Takyoji> Something that would be completely rid of system privileges, but able to get statistics/information.
<mr_steve> Takyoji, for the SSH issue, you could just have all your machines set up for remote syslogging to one box
<Takyoji> A possibility
<Takyoji> Or I'll just write my own PHP page and client
<mr_steve> And then you'd really just need some kind of pattern-matching script to count certain patterns occuring the logs. I'm sure something halfway decent already exists
<mr_steve> I use zabbix for a 1000-yard overview of my network
<Takyoji> I just can't sleep at night with the thought of something not being persistent. Just re-requesting for new information on an interval
<Takyoji> Well, I guess it could work on a server-push basis, although it's hard to set the up server-side for the script to wait for input and maintain a persistent connection
<Takyoji> I'm a person that can't sleep at night when something is working inefficiently
<Takyoji> (just a hyperbole though)
<Takyoji> Polling over HTTP is one of the things that I consider inefficient.
<Takyoji> i.e. a web-based IRC client that reloads every second to see if there's any new IRC messages
<Obsidian1723> Why not just set all machines to use /var on one PC, make that the logging server, get stats from there?
<Takyoji> otherwise I'm talking about separate web servers.
<mr_steve> uh-oh. I think something bad has happened on my machine
<Takyoji> I don't run a datacenter/server farm at all
 * Takyoji stops playing with mr_steve's SVGA cable
<mr_steve> heheh
<mr_steve> d????????? ? ?     ?         ?                ? awesome
<mr_steve> That's what ls -l tells me in my ~/.config dir
<Takyoji> heh
<mr_steve> I don't think that's a happy thing
<Takyoji> Question marks, or non-UTF characters?
<mr_steve> question marks
<Takyoji> ahh
<mr_steve> I made it with mkdir, now I can't cd into it, can't rm it
<Obsidian1723> sudo nautiluscan you delete it via that?
<Obsidian1723> sudo nautilus can you delete it via that?
<Takyoji> (Did you know you can make certain folders on Windows in command line that you can't normally create or delete?)
<Obsidian1723> attrib
<Obsidian1723> yeah
<Obsidian1723> You cna do that in Linux too.
<mr_steve> can't rm it as root either, no error, it just doesn't go away
<Takyoji> There's certain reserved names in Linux as well?
<Obsidian1723> rm -rf name*
<mr_steve> no dice
<Obsidian1723> If it's Fluffy Bunny as the dir or file, cd to where it is, rm -rf fluff*
<Obsidian1723> capital F
<Obsidian1723> chmod 777 it, chown as root then rm -rf name*
<mr_steve> can't chmod it, no such file or directory
<Obsidian1723> what is the name of it?
<mr_steve> awesome
<Obsidian1723> no non-standard characters?
<mr_steve> nope, all I did was mkdir /home/steve/.config/awesome
<Obsidian1723> so it's a hidden director
<Obsidian1723> can you cd to it as root ?
<mr_steve> hmm, I haven't tried that yet. standby...
<Obsidian1723> sudo cd /home/steve/.config/
<Obsidian1723> If sudo doesn't work, then su root and do cd to it.
<mr_steve> nope, can't cd into it from a root shell, no such file or directory
<mr_steve> I think a fsck is in my near to immediate future
<Obsidian1723> I had a folder that wouldnt delete, so I su'd to root, then sudo cd'd to the folder.
<Obsidian1723> what distro ya using?
<mr_steve> Ubuntu, Lucid. I believe I've found another bug.
<Obsidian1723> oh fuck me...
<Obsidian1723> Alpha shit. no wonder
<Obsidian1723> I never upgrade until LTS .1
<mr_steve> Yep. This is why I have backups. Hopefully a fsck will take care of it though.
<Obsidian1723> Well, remastersys is good for imaging.
<mr_steve> And then I have a bug report to file. FS bugs = A Bad Thing
<Obsidian1723> Yeah, avoid the .10 releasese like 8.10 and 9.10 and while 9.04 is ok, best to stick to LTS, at least on production machines. If this is just a testing box, its a different story.
<Obsidian1723> I'm on 8.04.4LTS and I refuse to upgrade until 10.04.1LTS
<Obsidian1723> much more stable that way...
<mr_steve> okay, so I ran ls again, and now it's a proper directory entry. Really weird.
<Takyoji> Then it's just how it was read, rather than how it was saved.
<Takyoji> If only I could find a font that's a terminal-like font.
<Takyoji> Courier New doesn't fit my desires
<Takyoji> I wouldn't mind if it even looked like it was printed by a dot-matrix printer
<Takyoji> Well I guess I just noticed a general issue with Ubuntu
<Takyoji> The large font theme is too large
<Takyoji> and nearly impossible to click the System menu to get to the preferences to change it back easily
<Takyoji> my mother just ran into that issue
<Takyoji> anyone have alternate suggestions?
<Takyoji> (I was however able to revert it)
<Takyoji> Gah, too bad that I can't bolden specific words in a text block in The GIMP..
<tonyyarusso> sure you can - you just highlight them
<mr_steve> hmm. My fileserver made some omninous clicking noises, and seems to have done an emergency remount-ro on root
<mr_steve> not my preferred way to start the day
<mr_steve> grr
<Takyoji> Snow day.
<mr_steve> not for me :(
<Takyoji> Aww
<mr_steve> the math class right before mine is cancelled, but mine isn't
<Takyoji> ahh
<mr_steve> too bad, since it seems I need to rebuild my file/web server today
<mr_steve> the hard drive holding the root LV decided to self-destruct this morning
<Takyoji> Oh fun
<Takyoji> I'm working on a web design right now
<Takyoji> I've been constantly tweaking it
<Takyoji> Trying to reach perfection
<mr_steve> that's something I've never been very good at. I stoped writing web pages before the rise of CSS
<Takyoji> I should probably be taking notes from the Ubuntu Marketing mailing list; various individuals are pointing out good details in terms of promotion/advertisement
<h00k> halp, I'm debating upgrading my netbook to Lucid
<exigraff> h00k: may want to keep one stable machine around
<exigraff> h00k: just sayin
<h00k> I know, I know...
<h00k> but...
<Takyoji> I'd rather dual-boot Lucid rather than just Lucid installed alone
<h00k> I had it dual-booting but got rid of lucid on the other partition on my laptop and upgraded karmic to lucid
<h00k> and now I want to try it on my netbook
<Takyoji> Experienced any issues/bugs yet with Lucid?
<h00k> I had one related to cron
<h00k> er, cron died and I reported it
<Takyoji> ahh
<h00k> I had GDM act silly and freeze up, too
<Takyoji> Ever time I boot into Lucid, GDM restarts after a couple seconds, then I try again, then I can login
<Takyoji> Every*
<Takyoji> And before it crashes/reopens, it has minor graphical issues on the top, with a few pixels flickering
<Takyoji> Anyone planning an installfest?
<Takyoji> You know you all want to..
<h00k> We might have one in Wisconsin, yeah.
<Takyoji> Woo
<Takyoji> Just for the sheer curiosity; has anyone packaged RPMs at all?
<rlaager> Takyoji: I've done plenty.
<Takyoji> Anything substantially different of it from creating deb packages?
<Takyoji> So. How terrible is my work? http://mnopensource.org :P
<Takyoji> Just a little thing I'm working on
<Takyoji> currently just a static page
<mr_steve> Takyoji, i like it :)
<mr_steve> Simple, clean, and the GPL in the background of the header is a nice touch
<Takyoji> I was trying to think what would be most emblematic of FOSS, thus the GPL came to mind
<Takyoji> I'm making it into a Wordpress theme right now
<rlaager> Takyoji: It's not vastly different from debs. The biggest thing about an RPM is that it's all in one file. You denote sections of it instead of having separate files. Also, it's just generally not as nice as making debs (with debhelper at least).
<mr_steve> Themeing wordpress is something I gotta look into. First I gotta rebuild my webserver and recover from backups tho...
 * mr_steve grumbles
<Takyoji> Woo!
<Takyoji> Got my Linux Journal magazine
 * Obsidian1723 just had a guy ask ne in email to help him with an CMS install on a Linux box (via a web no less), but like I told him, I don't work for free either. Some people... I tell ya.
<tonyyarusso> silly Obsidian1723, you should have replied with a quote
<Obsidian1723> heh
<Obsidian1723> He needed to do it so HE could get paide. What am I? Chopped liver? I have certs, including a Linux one, but I also have 32+ years experience.
<Obsidian1723> yeah, I should have told him @200/hr or RTFM.
<Takyoji> Oh, I see
<Takyoji> I would die to have a rack of servers; I would worship it every night. xP
<Takyoji_> Laptop froze
<Takyoji_> The only thing responsive was the cursor
<Takyoji_> Was my last geeky message received?
<Obsidian1723> heh I have some old Cisco stuff....
<Obsidian1723> 2507 router and 1923 24-port Layer 2 switch./
<Takyoji_> I just have standard desktops to work with. I have nothing that's considerably enterprise-level equipment
<kermit> if the cursor was responsive, that was just x-windows or your window manager freezing
<kermit> Takyoji_:
<Takyoji_> Next time it occurs I'll attempt Ctrl+Alt+Backspace then
<kermit> i heard somewhere that was disabled in ubuntu
<kermit> but i havent tested
<Takyoji_> Although that key combination has been changed
<Takyoji_> I haven't had any success with the magic SysRq key yet at all
<kermit> that doesnt work in X
<kermit> really the only way to deal with X is to kill it with ssh from another machine
<Obsidian1723> Tak, I'm looking to upgrade so this still is only 10MBPS, I need 100MBPS... if I can replace it, you can have the other stuff.
<Takyoji_> Ooo
<Obsidian1723> I want a Cisco Cataylst 2900
 * tonyyarusso guesses you mean Mbps
<Obsidian1723> Mo
<Obsidian1723> Mb = Megabytes MB = Megabits
<tonyyarusso> Other way around Obsidian1723
<kermit> what tonyyarusso said
<Obsidian1723> brain fried, yeah.. I mean Mb
<Obsidian1723> Is it Monday?
<Takyoji_> Didn't you get the memo? It's Friday.
<Obsidian1723> nooooooooooooooooo
<Takyoji_> (actually not, obviously)
<Obsidian1723> parrrrrrrrrrrrrr tay!!
<Obsidian1723> yah I know.
 * Takyoji_ plots world domination
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-09
<mr_steve> I think in the future when setting up automatic SMART monitoring of my disks, I need to remember the importance of at least running a short self-test
<h00k> mr_steve: Ubuntu has a disk...thing that monitors it and will notify you if it's bad
<mr_steve> palimpsest, yup. If they've worked the bugs out. This is a server tho.
<h00k> Yeah, that.
<mr_steve> it has the same problem that bit me, I don't think it runs self-tests.
<mr_steve> All my reported SMART attrs were fine, actually they still are. But the self-test hits an error every other sector
<Takyoji> Ooo, Bespin is spiffy..
<Takyoji> (and easy to install)
<Takyoji> Written in Python in fact
<Takyoji> Oh, I still haven't pushed that change yet..
<Takyoji> I really should find a convenient application for a category-based todo list
<Takyoji> That would also be easily accessible from the gnome-panel, and where it's minimal clicks to add something new to the list
<Takyoji> Finally committed the change. Hopefully it worked
<mr_steve> Takyoji, I'm thinking about a patch for Getting Things Gnome that adds a tray icon or panel applet. Interested?
<mr_steve> ALthough GTG is kinda clunky still
<Takyoji> That would be convenient
<Takyoji> Or perhaps something that could bind with other applications as well; but then that may become "complex"
<Takyoji> i.e. something that would add to the calendar/list in Evolution
<mr_steve> Gnome-Do + Tasque is decent too, Tasque can use evolution-data-server as a backend. It can sync to rememberthemilk.com too, I believe
<mr_steve> personally I'm probably going to end up coding my own task manager, nothing really seems to fit my particular organizational style
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> I would be able to live with something that solely resides as a gnome-panel applet.
<Takyoji> I mean, that would pretty much be optimal for me
<mr_steve> yeah, that's basically what I have in mind when I get around to writing my own
<mr_steve> Something with a panel applet and a global keybinding to pop up a quick add-task dialog
<mr_steve> and natural language parsing like RTM and Google Calender would be a nice bonus
<Takyoji> yea
<Takyoji> Two-way syncing is possible with Google Calendar, correct?
<mr_steve> Yup
<mr_steve> Evolution can do it
<Takyoji> Yea, I believe I recall that
<Takyoji> or at least is supposed to
<mr_steve> Yeah. My school of thought is that if Evolution can do it, I sure can too. cuz evo rarely does anything properly...
<Takyoji> heh
<mr_steve> I was toying with Anjal, the minimal/netbook frontend to Evolution mail
<mr_steve> So now I use Mutt.
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> I'm such a paranoid individual.
<Takyoji> I don't trust accessing my Google account in public at all
<Takyoji> Unless if I boot a LiveCD, and it's a nice HTTP over TLS connection.
<mr_steve> until very recently, I'd usually just ssh into my server, where I had irssi and mutt running in screen
<Takyoji> Random curiosity: What do any of you name your servers/workstations?
<Takyoji> (in terms of the hostname for example)
<mr_steve> my laptop is yogzotot and my netbook is nyogtha, my server was bender, but it'll get a new name now that it's a new install on new hardware
<Takyoji> My primary workstation is timber-wolf, my mother's system is just family-computer, this laptop is "caleb-laptop" I think (although I may change it to something more creative), and the first system I ever installed Linux on was called canis-lupus
<Takyoji> which happened to be Debian
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: fort-frances, kapuskasing, atikokan, dryden, thornloe, latchford, mattawa, sudbury, moosonee, geraldton, nipigon, and hearst.
<Takyoji> Our linux systems; they
<Takyoji> Our Linux systems; they're just like children to us. :P
<Takyoji> So I take it that's in Ojibwe?
 * tonyyarusso may or may not already have the hostnames and IP addresses of around a hundred potential future systems / VMs predetermined....
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: No, those are city names in northern Ontario.
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> Anyone memorize their WAN IP address(es)? :P
<tonyyarusso> My WAN IP is semi-dynamic, so no.
<Takyoji> Aww
<Takyoji> Mine has been the same for at least 2 years now
<tonyyarusso> at last check is was 174.something, but even the first octet occasionally rotates
<Takyoji> And thankfully it's easy to remember
<Takyoji> Mine is 24 177 111 78
<Takyoji> Hack me, now! :o
<tonyyarusso> I have dyndns set up though, and as a backup every minute cron writes the IP to a file on my VPS as well.
<Takyoji> ahh
<tonyyarusso> I do however memorize the internal IPs, which I also use for remote access
<tonyyarusso> (external port numbers based on the service and internal IP point at each machine)
<tonyyarusso> I also actually have hostnames defined for each interface on each device, in case I ever wanted to run a chroot with a different IP on them.  And there's a block of hostnames allocated to systems capable of hardware virtualization.
<Takyoji> I remember all my LAN IPs
<Takyoji> ahh
<tonyyarusso> and the IP addresses are grouped by device/service type in case I want to write subnet firewall rules later
<tonyyarusso> scratch that earlier statement; the actual number I have pre-determined is 53.
<Takyoji> tonyyarusso: I finally pushed that fix to the Bazaar repository
<tonyyarusso> oh, and I have 6 in a separate class entirely that I don't know what I'll do with yet.  Maybe that will be for a cluster :P
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: yay
<tonyyarusso> Thus also confirming that group permissions are working :)
<Takyoji> 4 days that I completely forgot to push the change.
<Takyoji> Woo
<tonyyarusso> now to figure out how to merge your change into production...
 * h00k merges tonyyarusso with 'awesome'
<Takyoji> I have yet to ever use irssi
 * Takyoji wonders if tonyyarusso secretly sold off his (Takyoji's) 8P8C cables..
<h00k> irssi is pretty sweet.
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: nope
<mr_steve> irssi is awesome
<mr_steve> Hm I need moar disk
<mr_steve> So, what exactly does it take for ubuntu-mn to become an approved team?
<kermit> mr_steve: approved by who for what?
<mr_steve> Approved by the Ubuntu LoCo team as an "Approved" Team
<mr_steve> tonyyarusso, ?
<Takyoji> Like 3-5 Ubuntu members I believe
<tonyyarusso> it's a bit more complicated that that - it's a measure of sustained activity and contribution
<Takyoji> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
<tonyyarusso> yeah, that
<mr_steve> So, I should definitely keep up the Ubuntu Hours, as well as my packaging and triage efforts, then
<tonyyarusso> (wiki won't load for me atm)
<Takyoji> Yea, it was slow for me as well
<Takyoji> The wiki and Launchpad seem a little slow/unresponsive tonight
<Takyoji> at times
<Takyoji> So did I break something? :P
<mr_steve> I cannot for the life of me figure out the best way to partition 65.9 GB of disk for a new server install
<mr_steve> Anyone know what a sensible size for / on an ubuntu server would be?
<Takyoji> I'd estimate about 6GB or below
<Takyoji> in terms of being minimalistic
<mr_steve> with or without a seperate /usr?
<Takyoji> though it could probably be even less since a server installation is typically quite smaller than a desktop installation
 * Takyoji wonders if tonyyarusso is poking at the website still yet
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Yeah - upstream goofed up so I'm having some trouble merging in changes from them.
<tonyyarusso> Since we modified style.css, and then they moved it to css/style.css, but manually instead of with bzr mv.
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> It's kind of interesting some movies secretly have a FOSS app used in them.
<Takyoji> For example, nmap in The Matrix (and a couple other movies as well)
<Takyoji> Audacity was in Paranormal Activity.
<mr_steve> Heh I definitely remember that from the Matrix. Nmap and sshnuke.
<Takyoji> Some Linux distro was obviously used in the movie "Antitrust"
<Takyoji> A GRUB boot loader selection screen was used in some comic. :P
<Takyoji> http://www.ubuntudaily.com/wp-content/uploads/1185408112656.jpg xP
<Takyoji> Hah, I get such a laugh out of that. xP
<Takyoji> I don't get the point of space-based indentation over tab-based.
<tonyyarusso> Me neither - it's silly.
<tonyyarusso> all right, bunch o' changes all merged up.
<Takyoji> What would be our next step at world domination?
<Takyoji> as a sidenote; I can't login through the typical Launchpad module. The way I'd be able to login was by manually inserting my OpenID URL
 * Obsidian1723 night all.
<mr_steve> wow I hate CD drives that sounds like a leafblower
<Takyoji> heheheh
<Takyoji> Same
<Takyoji> Usually I'd never have a disc in the other system I'd use. Because it would even just simple idle and make horrendous noise
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/user , manually add your OpenID URL to your profile (note that you need the nonsense one, not the username one).
<Takyoji> just simply*
<mr_steve> yeah this drive is awful, I should have tried USB instead
<Takyoji> I don't have my password. xP
<Takyoji> Otherwise you might be able to manually add it
<tonyyarusso> yeah, I can
<tonyyarusso> or I could try something else
<Takyoji> otherwise I'll be leaving for the nigh
<tonyyarusso> someone tell Takyoji to visit http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/openid later.
<kermit> no
<Takyoji> Snow day; though I just slept through most of it
<Takyoji> Ooo, new KDE release
<Takyoji> and their nifty website redesign
<mr_steve> ugh, prdownloads.sourceforge.net is acting up
<tonyyarusso> http://failblog.org/2010/01/20/cd-fail/
<mr_steve> heheh whoops
<mr_steve> yay prdownloads is working again
<Takyoji> hah nice
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/openid
<Takyoji> Still isn't working as desired
<Takyoji> Still denied
<tonyyarusso> uh, that's the same login thing that you were using before...
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: does login fail both with your password and manual openid?
<Takyoji> It fails with all combinations of the my OpenID that I give it
<tonyyarusso> okay, but can you log in with a password?
<Takyoji> Where's the page for username/password authentication again?
<tonyyarusso> that will worko on /openid too
<tonyyarusso> or /user, either way
<Takyoji> Tried all passwords that I know, none of them worked
<tonyyarusso> okayyyyy
<tonyyarusso> http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/user/password then
<tonyyarusso> apparently our site got a hit from Morocco
<Takyoji> Unauthorized
<tonyyarusso> wth
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: try http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/user/password now
<Takyoji> Went through the form successfully, but haven't received an email yet
<Takyoji> nothing in the Junk/Spam folders either
<Takyoji> Sure your mailserver is working or that Drupal is properly configured?
<tonyyarusso> heh, no
<tonyyarusso> yay, mailserver misconfiguration.  dammit.
 * tonyyarusso should actually read system mail
<Takyoji> Anyone happen to know of how I could have a request for "/some/page" map to "/cache/some/page.shtml" in a .htaccess file?
<Takyoji> But for pretty much anything
<Takyoji> and if not, it would resort to the index.php file
<tonyyarusso> should just be a URL rewrite rule I'd imagine.
<Takyoji> Perhaps I'm just overanalyizing
<Takyoji> Should I be horrendously disturbed that the Plesk login page on a server has a .php3 extension...?
<h00k> I'm geting into a fight with my Tux Droid
<Takyoji> In what way? :P
<Takyoji> I wonder how I would be able to somehow benchmark PHP and SSI in terms of performance..
<Takyoji> or if I should even just have something all DB-based rather than on the filesystem..
<tonyyarusso> h00k: This is why you should have programmed the 3 Laws *first*, not said "eh, I'll get to the good practice stuff later - first, nunchucks!"
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I know, I know...
<Takyoji> Would benchmarking in a virtual machine be sane for proper isolation?
<Takyoji> (for server-related things)
<Takyoji> Also, public key authentication is much more secure than password-based authentication for SSH, y/n?
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-10
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Correct, particularly since your key has a passphrase as well.
<kermit> (2010-02-09 05:42:51) tonyyarusso: someone tell Takyoji to visit http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/openid later.
<tonyyarusso> kermit: yeah...turns out that doesn't help him until I configure the mail server properly - whoops
<marcos_> any of you particularly fantastic at openoffice?
<_diablo> direct responses at me if you are :)
<Takyoji> What would you need help with?
<Takyoji> Otherwise I'd be willing to try to find the solution.
<_diablo> Takyoji: well, I don't know if it's even a problem. I built the newest OO.o (3.1.1) from the downloaded debs and it looked great.
<_diablo> but then I started it and it said it had problems with the JRE. It doesn't show the message again and it appears to be working fine
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> Sidenote: Anyone know how to port forward from a VirtualBox VM? (I know it's possible, I've done it before)
<_diablo> Takyoji: sorry, no clue
<_diablo> Takyoji: do you think there's anything wrong with my OO.o?
<Takyoji> I wouldn't really be able to say. I'm not very Java-oriented
<_diablo> Takyoji: fair enough :)
<Takyoji> Note: Testing in a VM is much more stable.
<Takyoji> I was doing a benchmark and the numbers come out more stable when I'm doing a benchmark in a stripped down VM
<Takyoji> I feel pathetic that, as a Linux user, I don't entirely remember all the necessary parameters for extracting an archive by heart xP
<_diablo> Takyoji: really? xvzf if it's a gz, xvjf if it's bz
<_diablo> you've been in a gui too long lol
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> Been quite a while since I've done any PHP..
 * Takyoji wonders if tonyyarusso has done anything of the mailserver yet
<mr_steve> hey folks, how's it going?
<Takyoji> Average, normal, and unexciting. :P
<Takyoji> Woo, more fun http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/02/microsoft-warns-of-tslssl-flaw-in-windows.ars
<mr_steve> vimperator is awesome
<Takyoji> heh, interesting
<Takyoji> Firefox addon, yes?
<Takyoji> Anyone ever do any GUI-based development?
<mr_steve> Takyoji, yes, a firefox addon. And yes, I've done some stuff in Python with Gtk
<Takyoji> Because I'd be curious of doing pretty much exactly that; but am a little unfamiliar with how to build dialogs and so on; since it seems that they use relative sizing rather than fixed
<mr_steve> Right, that takes a bit of getting used to. I came from VB, so WxWidgets and Gtk were both a bit different for me
<mr_steve> Once you start thinking about your UI windows in terms of rows/columns it starts to be pretty natural
<Takyoji> Yea, that's just all I really need to understand
<Takyoji> based upon my observations
<mr_steve> You can check out launchpad.net/~taskstacker for a very simple UI example, I wrote it as an exersise in Gnome app development
<mr_steve> err, that's not the right URL
<Takyoji> tasktracker, or?
<mr_steve> https://launchpad.net/taskstacker
<mr_steve> It's a really really stupid task list program I wrote
<Takyoji> ahh
<mr_steve> For practice with Gtk, Gnome, Bazaar, Launchpad, etc
<Takyoji> ahh
<Takyoji> And then I take it, and revolutionize it, then it becomes the next most popular application. :P
<mr_steve> Oddly, it somehow ended up in some free software directory
<mr_steve> Some editor actualy took the time to download it, install it, and take a screenshot of it
<Takyoji> heh interesting
<mr_steve> Yeah, not more than a day after I uploaded the first release tarball I got an email that it was accepted into some software directory
<Takyoji> heh
<Takyoji> No deb package? :o
<mr_steve> Actually there is, in my ppa
<Takyoji> Anyone else agree that it's kind of a step back that the Ubuntu Software Centre doesn't have checkboxes to check off what software you want installed?
<Obsidian1723> yes.
<Takyoji> But at the same time a person could of course use the Synaptic Package Manager
<Takyoji> I'm curious on how they intend to merge the two..
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: oh god yes - it takes forever to install more than one thing...
<Takyoji> Start a petition then over the annoyance? :P
<Takyoji> It should be voiced in some fashion though
<mr_steve> Ubuntu's Brainstorm?
<mr_steve> Heh I submitted an idea to brainstorm a while back, and now I can't even remember what it was
<Obsidian1723> Ever since 9.04, Ubuntu has gone downhill.
<Obsidian1723> Ubuntu One, Software Center, the Ubuntu "Vista" is 9.10, mono, and grub2
<Takyoji> I haven't had much issue with GRUB2
<Obsidian1723> sucks compared to v1
<Takyoji> In what aspect though?
<Takyoji> Configuration, or?
<tonyyarusso> It lacks some config options, but those will be back soon enough.
<tonyyarusso> hey Takyoji, I think the mailing is working again - *now* trying sending yourself a new password :)
<Obsidian1723> just how messy it is underneath the hood compared to grub 1. It's a personal preferences thing.
<Takyoji> GDM has also been a step back as well (in terms of customization)
<Takyoji> ahh
<tonyyarusso> also, tell me what address it comes from...
<Obsidian1723> yeah, not too hip on GDM 3 either.
<Obsidian1723> If this keeps up, I may have to dump Ubuntu and go to Debian or Gentoo.
<Takyoji> no-reply@ubuntu-minnesota.org
<Takyoji> But over all, it's all new technologies; over time they should be properly refined
<tonyyarusso> yay!
<tonyyarusso> now let me know if you can log in :)
<Takyoji> Yes, from a temporary link
<tonyyarusso> good, good
<Takyoji> however I can't modify what OpenID identities are related with my account, nor the account password
 * Takyoji pokes tonyyarusso
 * tonyyarusso needs screenshots
<tonyyarusso> aww, when did our heading get uncentered?
<Takyoji> Since the edit
<Takyoji> It's a general 'unauthorized' Drupal error
 * tonyyarusso has a theory
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: still logged in?
<Takyoji> Yes
<tonyyarusso> 'k
<Takyoji>  /user/me/openid
<Takyoji> Now I'm able to access it
<tonyyarusso> ho ho
<tonyyarusso> Apparently the 'me' aliases module has some quirks.
<Takyoji> and successfully added
<Takyoji> ahh
<tonyyarusso> someone added a negative margin on it for some reason
<Takyoji> Awkward
<Takyoji> I'll be leaving for the night
<Takyoji> Ahh yes, such luxury. Login to my desktop over FreeNX and make it Suspend. Then access ny DAAP share on another system to listen to song I haven't heard in a while. All while I'm laying in bed lazily.
<Obsidian1723> ame This is worth a download: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/Computer-Hardware-High-Resolution-24w-x-34h.png
 * Obsidian1723 This is worth a download: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/914191/Computer-Hardware-High-Resolution-24w-x-34h.png
<mr_steve> I used to have that printed out at work for identifying all the random junk laying around
<Obsidian1723> good stuff .. I have tons of things like that.
<kermit> why does it have 168 pin memory twice?
<mr_steve> Wow firefox didn't handle that well at all
<kermit> mine did
<mr_steve> Looked like it had 168 pin and then 168 pin PC100, for some reason
<Takyoji> Any thoughts on the "We're Linux" contest again?
<Takyoji> Seems we only have one individual claiming to be away.
<Takyoji> I wonder how many others here actually read the contents of this channel, or just still have it set to auto-join without really much acknowledgement. :P
<tonyyarusso> Actually, I believe everyone in here has spoken in the last two weeks (with the exception of ChanServ, locobot_5, ubot3, and ubuntulog of course)
<_diablo> Takyoji, I'm here
<_diablo> sorry, I don't know what that is.
<_diablo> so I wasn't going to jump in and waste some more time lol
<Takyoji> I wasn't implying it in terms of being annoyed, I was just implying that I don't notice some users mentioning anything is all
<_diablo> ah, fair enough
<Takyoji> _diablo: http://video.linuxfoundation.org/contest/we-are-linux-superbowl-ad-contest
<_diablo> lol
<_diablo> that's expensive
<Takyoji> I realized the same. :P
<Takyoji> But I have a feeling if someone does make a commercial that just makes us weep in the beauty of it; there might be a couple of companies that might fund such together; who knows. :P
<_diablo> fair enough
<Takyoji> Now come on folks, let's make that video!
<Takyoji> :P
<_diablo> ...
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-11
 * tonyyarusso is doubtful
<tonyyarusso> Superbowl ads are intended to generate a return on investment.  Unless you can convince a firm that spending 50 million to run the ad will bring them 100 million in additional profits (not gross revenue), they won't bother.
<Takyoji_> Otherwise my system "froze". Apparently the wireless LED was off (which it normally isn't). Tried to switch to a terminal, Ctrl+Alt+Backspace, Ctrl+Alt+Del, and so on. No reaction.
<Takyoji_>  Yet the cursor could move.
<Takyoji_>  When I tried switching to a terminal I had done Ctrl+Alt+F5
<tonyyarusso> Sorry, apparently a 30-second spot "only" runs 3 million, so your bar is a little lower.
<_diablo> lol
<Takyoji_> Woo
<Takyoji_> I wonder how much a typical school district's budget is spent towards software and operating system costs.
<Takyoji_> I have quite a feeling that it would be a mortifying number
<Alpha_Cluster> Takyoji_, actually its probably not as bad as you think
<Takyoji_> Well my school supposedly pays like 10000/year for a web filter solution
<Alpha_Cluster> i am sure they can weasle some good deals
<Takyoji_> Or something in that general ballpark
<Alpha_Cluster> really?
<Alpha_Cluster> they can get that through opendns for like way less
<Takyoji_> It's not DNS-based
<Alpha_Cluster> ...
<Alpha_Cluster> then its worthless
<Takyoji_> All connections go through the system
<Alpha_Cluster> oh so its a box?
<Takyoji_> And if it even sees a blacklisted website's IP, it resets the connection to the server, and sends an error to the client
<Alpha_Cluster> http://www.opendns.com/start/
<Alpha_Cluster> oh look $2k a year with special school pricing
<Alpha_Cluster> sounds like a steal
<Takyoji_> and the filtering solution is also very restrictive
<Takyoji_> Anything blog-like in nature is even blocked.
<Alpha_Cluster> oh they always do that
<Takyoji_> Even wikiversity is blocked for being a "blog"
<Alpha_Cluster> before i graduated from HS they were blocking myspace
<Alpha_Cluster> course you could get to porn sites accedentally still
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Takyoji_> then opensourcecinema.com is blocked for "video sharing"
<Takyoji_> So then is sharing a bad thing or what?
<Takyoji_> It's just pathetic
<Takyoji_> The solution is called 8e6 R3000
<Alpha_Cluster> in america sharing can only mean illegal terrorist supporting activies remember
<Takyoji_> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,1532787,00.asp
<Alpha_Cluster> why the hell would you use this when opendns would solve the issue i dont get it
<Alpha_Cluster> do people not get how the internet works?
<kermit> opendns would solve what?
<Alpha_Cluster> 99% of school filtering that they feel is need
<Alpha_Cluster> remember we must "protect" the children
<Alpha_Cluster> god forbid they learn about this crazy sharing concept
<Takyoji_> spreadfirefox is also blocked
<Alpha_Cluster> again sharing
<Alpha_Cluster> we wouldnt want to allow that
<Alpha_Cluster> or choice
<Alpha_Cluster> god forbid you use a none IE browser
<kermit> i still havent figured out what opendns even does
<Alpha_Cluster> kermit, opendns is just a dns solution
<kermit> i guess it's like facebook.. you just have to use it to understand.
<kermit> solution.. to what probelm?
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Alpha_Cluster> well if your isp has a crapy dns it can speed up your dns lookups
<kermit> usingy our ISP's DNS is dumb
<Alpha_Cluster> also if you want to say block porn you can configure opendns to block it
<Alpha_Cluster> lol exactly
<Alpha_Cluster> i use opendns instead
<Takyoji_> mozillazine
<Takyoji_> ideastorm
<Takyoji_> ostatic
<Takyoji_> wikihow
<Alpha_Cluster> plus i get nice stats
<Takyoji_> games.slashdot.com (but not Slashdot; man it probably has games on it!)
<Takyoji_> legaltorrents is also blocked
<Takyoji_> The Microformats specification is blocked
<Takyoji_> etc
<Alpha_Cluster> Takyoji_, of course they could learn nothing from a game
<kermit> so opendns is for blocking sites by name?
<Takyoji_> But yea, that's just how my school district works with the very "apt" (who tried to have both Apache and IIS bind to specifically port 80 on the exact same server) district technologists
<Takyoji_> (and didn't know why Apache couldn't start with IIS actively running bound to port 80..)
<Alpha_Cluster> well it can it does it by catagories too
<Alpha_Cluster> also kermit its just a good alternate dns
<Takyoji_> WOT is also useful
<kermit> alternate? it resolves different names?
<Alpha_Cluster> eh somewhat
<Alpha_Cluster> kermit, no it just is something other then a ISP's dns
<kermit> its just another isp's dns
<kermit> why use any third party dns?
<Alpha_Cluster> cause its faster
<Alpha_Cluster> most isps dns's are shit
<kermit> using a third party dns is not faster
<Takyoji_> They have filtering capabilities and so on
<Alpha_Cluster> um yes it generally is
<kermit> an isp's dns is a third party
<kermit> opendns is a third party
<kermit> using either is not faster than not using a third party
<Alpha_Cluster> um... what do you mean?
<Alpha_Cluster> do you host your own dns?
<Alpha_Cluster> and what dns does taht point to :p
<kermit> 'host my own dns' ?
<kermit> i dont use my isp's dns, i dont use opendns
<Alpha_Cluster> then your still using a third parties
<kermit> who?
<Alpha_Cluster> domains dont just work out of air
<kermit> i know how dns works, the impression i'm under is that most opendns customers dont.
<Alpha_Cluster> ... op top domain for my netowkr is *.l.google.com then time.apple.com waht does that mean about me?
<Alpha_Cluster> um i understand how it works as well
<Alpha_Cluster> do you like to a higher up dns? Cause last i checked that is kinda considered rude liek downloading form a root sync server
<kermit> you think it's rude to not use a third party dns?
<kermit> the TTL on TLDs is 2 days
<Alpha_Cluster> i know
<Alpha_Cluster> trust me i understand the internt
<Alpha_Cluster> Internet
<Alpha_Cluster> now if i could just spell :(
<kermit> i don't think it's rude to query authoratative servers, they can set the TTL higher if they want.
<Alpha_Cluster> it really isnt its just third party dns's exist for a reason
<kermit> or get more hardware, dont the TLD servers make a fortune anyway.
<Alpha_Cluster> to relieve congestion on the authoriative ones
<kermit> if a billion computers rebooted every day, that averages to 1200 requests per second accross the root servers
<kermit> a pentium 133MHz could handle that easily
<kermit> bind is fast
<Alpha_Cluster> i know
<Alpha_Cluster> i just would rather use opendns anyways since they have good services
<Alpha_Cluster> i like knowing the stats for my dns stuff
<Alpha_Cluster> but i am also thinking of seting up a caching proxy server again
<kermit> i run one on my openwrt router
<Alpha_Cluster> ahh
<Takyoji_> So; what would be our next step of world domination?
<Takyoji_> next step to world domination*
<tonyyarusso> good question
<tonyyarusso> I see them as falling into two categories:
<tonyyarusso> 1)  Energizing our existing base, and getting people active.
<tonyyarusso> 2)  Raising awareness externally.
<Takyoji_> Woo: I'm in the 538th position of the Ubuntu Folding@Home team
<Takyoji_> I feel very [un]important. :D
<Takyoji_> http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=teampage&teamnum=45104
<Takyoji_> Folding@Home supposedly is partially open source
<Takyoji_> http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-OpenSource
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, but boinc is fully open source, so they'll get any computing power I'm going to give.
<Takyoji_> ahh
<Takyoji_> Does it utilize the GPU as well, or not?
<tonyyarusso> no idea
<h00k> tonyyarusso: thanks again.
<Takyoji_> So in what ways are OAuth and OpenID different?
<Takyoji_> In terms of purpose
<tonyyarusso> I understand OpenID.  I don't really understand OAuth.  :P
<tonyyarusso> However, I *think* they go sort of in opposite directions.
<tonyyarusso> One is for a human to log into a site using an external source, the other is for a site to get data from an external source for the human.
<Takyoji_> ahh
<Takyoji_> leaving for the night
<tonyyarusso> Check out our new web site shiny:  http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/content/ubuntu-hour-st-paul
<tonyyarusso> Somebody remind me to enable proper caching on the web site in a month or two so our performance doesn't suck once I've done most of the early fiddling.
<h00k> Sweet! shiny, shiny!
<tonyyarusso> Hey, if any TC folks are free, come join us at the Roseville Barnes & Noble in a little over an hour.
<tonyyarusso> ( mr_steve, exigraff, bdunnette ? )
<mr_steve> ooh I wish I could but I gotta be leaving for class around then :(
<tonyyarusso> Class is overrated.
<tonyyarusso> (Well, at least the one I'm in right now is)
<mr_steve> tell me about it. Tonight is my 3:30 long world history class
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I concur.
<Takyoji_> Apparently I noticed that the coloration of the background is inconsistent with the color of the background image on my web design; upon viewing it on a different screen today..
<tonyyarusso> mr_steve: you should create an Event (content type) on the site for your Ubuntu Hour this week.
<Takyoji_> So I take it that there's no keyboard shortcut for opening a terminal window with a vanilla installation of Ubuntu?
<mr_steve> Takyoji_: not that I know of
<Takyoji_> They should associate a key combination for that eventually..
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-12
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji_: That's correct.  The thinking is that a new user could accidentally hit it, opening a terminal, and terminals are scary.
<_diablo> mr_steve, hey, what's up?
<mr_steve> _diablo, hey
<mr_steve> just got home from school
<_diablo> ouch. I got back around an hour ago
<mr_steve> so _diablo, I probably won't be able to an ubuntu hour tomorrow, but I'm planning on next friday
<_diablo> sounds good by me :)
<mr_steve> I should be meeting with a couple buddies about some web site they want me to work on, so I'll scout another coffeeshop near the same area while I'm at it
<mr_steve> and then once I have a location picked out, I'll be putting it on the website, as an every-other week thing I think
<mr_steve> tonyyarusso, ^
<mr_steve> I just don't want to add it until the location is determined
<_diablo> yeah, I agree
<tonyyarusso> 'k
<mr_steve> That said, I gotta go to bed in a most serious way. Class at 09:00.
<_diablo> nn
<Takyoji_> While I usually have to be at school at 8:10 am :P
<Takyoji_> But luckily I don't have school tomorrow
<Takyoji_> Didn't Skype release a library for the Skype protocol, so that a person could build a GUI on top of it?
<Takyoji_> or integrate it
<Takyoji_> That would actually be pretty nice if it was integrated into Pidgin or Empathy..
<tonyyarusso> No, they released the GUI.
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, but when you look at it, you can see how to integrate with the gui
<Takyoji_> WOO http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/02/12/0158223/Facebook-Now-Supports-JabberXMPP
<Takyoji_> And the villagers cheered in sheer joy!
<_diablo> e.g. you can use skype chat in pidgin, but you have to have the program open as well
 * Takyoji_ leaps with joy
<tonyyarusso> Bottom line:  Skype is still a proprietary protocol, so screw it.
<tonyyarusso> (Not to mention the CIA appeasement and whatnot)
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji_: Yes, WOO to that.  Although it's not federated, so muted woo.
<Takyoji_> Meaning that isn't able to be used between servers, or?
<tonyyarusso> Meaning that you can't use a GTalk account to chat with a Facebook user.
<_diablo> correct
<Takyoji_> Ahh
<Takyoji_> Yay, Empathy fails to authorize
<Takyoji_> Whether it be their server's implementation, or just the usual abnormal nature of Empathy
<Takyoji_> and it's fun to think that authentication is handled using MD5
<Takyoji_> and no TLS/SSL support
<_diablo> ugh
<Takyoji_> If I was a cryptologist, I'd just use ROT13 as encryption! :D
<Takyoji_> [not]
<Takyoji_> It'd be FLAWLESS
<Takyoji_> :P
<Takyoji_> How much processing overhead does TLS usually cause though?
<Takyoji_> For like lets say 512-bit
<Takyoji_> AES perhaps
<Takyoji_> Oh stupid me, I was accidentally trying to create an account on the Facebook XMPP server
<Takyoji_> Ooo fun, apparently work on mt-daapd ended like 2 years ago
<tonyyarusso> Wait, really?
<tonyyarusso> oh, I think I remember what replaced it - tangerine.
<Takyoji_> Firefly is the new name for mt-daapd
<tonyyarusso> https://edge.launchpad.net/tangerine/ - last release was in August.
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji_: yeah, but Firefly hasn't been touched since 2008.
<Takyoji_> ahh
<Takyoji_> I just love the style of the GNOME iconset, or anything matching it's aesthetics norm
<h00k> Are you guys doing anything planned yet for the Global Jam?
<tonyyarusso> No?
 * tonyyarusso doesn't even know when that is
<tonyyarusso> I wonder what we would have the skills for.
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I'll forward an email I got to the mailing list, if that's alright
<tonyyarusso> h00k: sure.  Basically, "don't piss people off" is the rule of mailing lists :P
<Takyoji> I wonder if OpenOffice 3.2 will be available in Lucid Lynx
<_diablo> Takyoji, I hope so!
<Takyoji> because I just have this feeling like it won't be available due some version freeze months ago or something
<Takyoji> I just wish there was a simple method of installing a newer version of an application, rather than the main one associated with the distribution version.
<_diablo> it's not hard.... I just did it in 10 minutes about a day ago
<Takyoji> I know I've done it before; it just feels disorderly of installing from a PPA that doesn't even sign the packages
<Takyoji> apparently as the new homepage screen for Firefox in the Lucid release: http://start.ubuntu.com/10.04/
<_diablo> and that's one of the many reasons why I won't be running Ubuntu on any of my machines after 9.10 fades
<tonyyarusso> !info openoffice.org lucid
<ubot3> openoffice.org: full-featured office productivity suite. In component main, is optional. Version 1:3.1.1-5ubuntu1 (karmic), package size 5 kB, installed size 52 kB (Only available for armel i386 m68k mips mipsel powerpc s390 amd64 ia64 lpia ppc64 s390x sparc all arm)
<tonyyarusso> oh yeah, ubot3 doesn't have lucid yet for some reason
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji, _diablo: openoffice.org (source: openoffice.org): full-featured office productivity suite. In component main, is optional. Version 1:3.2.0~rc4-1ubuntu1 (lucid), package size 4 kB, installed size 44  kB (Only available for armel i386 m68k mips mipsel powerpc s390 amd64 ia64 ppc64 s390x sparc hppa all arm)
<mr_steve> yay fridays
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: And all PPAs have package signing now.
<tonyyarusso> _diablo: psssh, who actually uses the home page anyway?
<Takyoji> done by Launchpad?
<tonyyarusso> Takyoji: yup.
<tonyyarusso> I believe the keys are per-PPA though.
<mr_steve> Yep. per-PPA
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, sigh. that's not the point I'm making and we all know it :)
<_diablo> this argument has been hashed out in better places that here by better people than us.  We can agree to disagree ;)
<_diablo> brb
<Takyoji> When does Yahoo officially become Bing in some form?
<Takyoji> Google Chrome seems to be under heavy fire of exploitation discovery it seems
<Takyoji> Pretty much every time I check Secunia there's a slew of new vulnerabilities found
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-13
<Takyoji> Anyone reasonable with regular expressions?
<kermit> i am
<kermit> in fact i have a tshirt that says "everybody stand back, i know regular expressions"
<Takyoji> I'm trying: /\<head[^\>]*\>(.*)\<\/head\>/m
<Takyoji> but it's not matching anything
<Takyoji> xkcd? :P
<kermit> escape the ()s
<Takyoji> That's for capture of the information I want though
<Takyoji> Basically anything between <head> and </head>
<Takyoji> Whereas <head> could have attributes and values defined
<Takyoji> The syntax is Perl regular expressions
<Takyoji> No suggestions? :P
<tonyyarusso> not now at least - no thinking
<Takyoji> It just doesn't make sense why this isn't matching anything; I've stripped it down to the basics even
<Takyoji> I've done a hell lot of work with regular expressions before
<Takyoji> Especially with anything XML-like
<kermit> Takyoji: are you saying my suggestion didnt work?
<Takyoji> Yes, that didn't work either
<Takyoji> But as implied, I'm not trying to capture parenthesis; that's part of the syntax for a subpattern for capture
<kermit> i don't know perl, put it in a perl command line so i can mess with it.
<Takyoji> I'm dealing with PHP
<Takyoji> PHP uses Perl's regular expression syntax
<Takyoji> Which is going to be a bit different than POSIX or for Python as well
<kermit> so you dont know perl either?
<Takyoji> It's not about Perl; but yes, I know some about Perl.
<Takyoji> It's just that it uses the Perl regular expression syntax
<kermit> perl would seem to be the easiest way to test perl syntax
<kermit> for me
<Takyoji> I'm talking about the regular expression itself
<Takyoji> It's just a simple PHP function. preg_match(pattern, subject, matches)
<Takyoji> The pattern goes in single quotes.
<kermit> if you'd prefer to give me test php code insteatd that'd be fine, as long as you tell me how to run it
<kermit> i had the impression perl would be easier
<kermit> ohh grep takes -P, i'll use that
<kermit> it matches "<head>stuff</head>" in grep with -P
<kermit> so the regex is fine
<Takyoji> This is just pathetic:
<Takyoji> Far beyond pathetic
<Takyoji> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/12/google_de_facto_internet_gateway/
<Takyoji> Makes me want to headdesk until my skull shatters.
<tonyyarusso> Users are dumb...
<Takyoji> Time to start the concept of an internet driver's license. :P
<kermit> lmao
<tonyyarusso> I wouldn't mind that
<Takyoji> Neither would I
<Takyoji> otherwise the capture has linebreaks
<Takyoji> Which I believe is what is causing it to not match anything since it's on a single line
<Takyoji> Even though the "m" pattern modifier should solve that.
<Takyoji> I guess I had to use the "s" pattern modifier to make it work
<Takyoji> Which makes it treat it as a single line, supposedly.
<mr_steve> Hm, this "event" module on the website is a little clunky
<_diablo> on ubuntu-minnesota.org?
<mr_steve> yup
<mr_steve> It could use support for repeating events
<mr_steve> I suppose I'll just have to add the ubuntu hour event and update the date after each one happens
<_diablo> that's so sketch.
<_diablo> gCal ftw
<mr_steve> Indeed
<mr_steve> I'd write a patch for the Drupal Events module that we're using, but for some reason I don't know PHP yet..
<_diablo> lol, same
<Takyoji> So for tethering; a cellphone simply acts as a dial-up modem, or?
<mr_steve> Takyoji, yeah, usually you configure it as a dial-up modem and tell it to dial a special phone number
<Takyoji> Ahh, intressant
<Takyoji> I thought it had to be done a special driver basis or something
<mr_steve> If it's bluetooth and supports the Dial Up Networking Profile, no driver should be required
<Takyoji> because I have a person that may potentially be interested in Ubuntu; and the only thing that I was thinking would be a problem is that they do tethering through their Blackberry
<Takyoji> It's via USB I believe
<mr_steve> You'd probably have to do a little research to see how the Blackberry presents itself, whether it's some proprietary interface or if it just provides a virtual serial port
<_diablo> GNOME has a thing built into it for handling mobile phone tethering
<Takyoji> I was looking up some instructions on tethering through a Blackberry, and all the commands are dial-related
<_diablo> although many providers won't let you (e.g. Sprint won't let me unless I pay like 30 bucks a month)
<Takyoji> Yes, I'm aware of that recently. I was trying to help someone with a GSM modem (or whatever the appropriate protocol is), and didn't know how to configure it (over the phone, especially). Then days later realized there's now a panel for that process.
<mr_steve> I just got Boost Mobile prepaid, I love it. Unlimited data on an EVDO connection, and tethering should work, though I haven't tried yet
<mr_steve> I'm sure there's some arbitrary "excessive use" cap too though
<Takyoji> My brother has satellite service; and he has like 1Mbps, and 200MB cap. :P
<kermit> does he live on a boat?
<Takyoji> Interestingly I noticed that the modem actually runs on some BSD variant
<Takyoji> Lives out in the country.
<_diablo> mr_steve, try to keep each packet downloaded under 1 MB and from what I've heard you should be okay
<kermit> packet?
<_diablo> individual file transferred over a network
<_diablo> (I might be using it incorrectly, but that's how I've heard it used)
<mr_steve> I've just been trying not to use it unreasonably, but I have been downloading tons of apps from getjar.com, which they probably don't appreciate
<mr_steve> Especially since I found a really decent IM client. And the phone comes with an IM client that costs .99/day to use
<kermit> _diablo: if you're talking about an internet connection, the ISP doesnt know how big the files you're downloading are.
<mr_steve> I think the general rule of thumb is something along the lines of "don't tether to your PC and fire up bittorrent"
<_diablo> kermit, phone companies do... or at least did a few years ago. they would charge people if they DLed too large of files over phone network
<kermit> no, that's wire tapping and illegal
<kermit> all they can know is total bandwidth used, not the granularity.
<_diablo> kermit, ah, interesting! cool.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2010-02-14
<tonyyarusso> Someone tell mr_steve that I'm pretty sure there is a way to do repeating events with the drupal module, but I haven't set it up yet.
<_diablo> kk
<mr_steve> Grr my freshly re-incarnated "server" just had a random reboot. I am just not winning with this pile of hand-me-down hardware
<tonyyarusso> Someone tell mr_steve that I'm pretty sure there is a way to do repeating events with the drupal module, but I haven't set it up yet.
<kermit> mr_steve: what he said
<mr_steve> tonyyarusso, k, I'll let him know
<tonyyarusso> :)
 * tonyyarusso just reposted the same as earlier
<kermit> this network has a memoserv
<mr_steve> Must have been the window of time between my server falling over and me remembering to start ZNC again
<mr_steve> Anywho I've got no real problem just updating the date on the event every time for now
<mr_steve> I've started putting my ubuntu hour info in there, unpublished for now, with location TBD
 * _diablo goes to check on mr_steve's event
<mr_steve> That reminds me, I didn't actually see any way to view the events from the home page. Still work-in-progress?
<tonyyarusso> yup
<tonyyarusso> Geez, Canada is destroying Slovakia in women's hockey...
<Alpha_Cluster> i havent seen any of the hockey games
 * Alpha_Cluster cannot login :(
<_diablo> Alpha_Cluster, that's not good. why not?
<Alpha_Cluster> cause i am in a small town and the cable provider out here has never actually made me create an online acocunt for stuff
<Alpha_Cluster> so i still cannto get in :(
 * Alpha_Cluster wants to watch more then the televised stuff...
<_diablo> ah, I gotcha
<Alpha_Cluster> actually the biggest thing is i want to watch the 3rd part of the opening ceremony but they put up their block on the ceremony videos sometime this afternoon >.< stupid NBC
<tonyyarusso> Alpha_Cluster: it's on CNBC, so I can't watch it either - I'm just watching the score updates online.
<Alpha_Cluster> ahh
<Alpha_Cluster> tonyyarusso: cant login either? or do you not have cable?
<tonyyarusso> Alpha_Cluster: we have cheap cable.  You're cable package has to include CNBC, and if ours did I'd just watch it on TV.
<Alpha_Cluster> really that is so stupid
<Alpha_Cluster> can you watch it afterwords at least/
<Alpha_Cluster> ?
<tonyyarusso> Not the whole thing - highlights yes.
<tonyyarusso> just the stuff everyone can get
<Alpha_Cluster> ok i vote we start a patition
<Takyoji> petition*
<Takyoji> I have to admit, it's quite pathetic: I have a Wii, and they have a web browser on it (which is Opera), and the thing is that you can't view video nor listen to any form of audio unless if it's embedded through Flash and it's accomodating formats..
<Takyoji> So for anything that's not a picture or HTML, you're FORCED to use Flash.
<Alpha_Cluster> flash is udder crap
<Alpha_Cluster> i hope steve jobs campaign to kill it works lol
<Takyoji> I'm deeply anticipating Theora and Canvas
<Takyoji> It's a bit annoying that Google is resilient against Theora
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah doesnt help with Microsoft pushing so hard agains it
<Takyoji> their own web browser doesn't even support their own HTML5 player to my awareness; last I checked
<tonyyarusso> Correct
<Alpha_Cluster> ?
<Alpha_Cluster> chome works on youtubes html5 page i thought...
<Takyoji> Google Chrome
 * Alpha_Cluster has always used safari though
<Alpha_Cluster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video
<Takyoji> Does Android have a Flash implementation?
<Alpha_Cluster> chrome supports it actaully
<Alpha_Cluster> theora i mean
<Alpha_Cluster> and no flash is not on andriod
<Takyoji> as I figured
<Alpha_Cluster> maybe Mobile Wporld announcement?>
<Takyoji> People need to honestly KILL Flash
<Takyoji> ESPECIALLY in regards of mobile device
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Takyoji> devices*
<Alpha_Cluster> well Apple is doing its part
<Alpha_Cluster> and i thin it will suck on all other mobile devices so that will help as well
<Takyoji> It's just so archaic that people use Flash still; because it's the only thing most widely "supported".
<Alpha_Cluster> i just wish that Silverlight would have used a more open standard for its video codec
<Takyoji> What codec does it use?
<Alpha_Cluster> VC-1
<Takyoji> Something patent-encumbered, and made by MS?
<Alpha_Cluster> actually VC-1 is based off mpeg-4 but i believe yeah it is patent-encumbered
<Alpha_Cluster> you can get a binary blog that makes it work in linux though
<Takyoji> Otherwise I give a nice golf clap to those whom implemented HTML5 capabilities in Silverlight along with Theora support
<Alpha_Cluster> blob*
<Alpha_Cluster> the reason i like silverlight is cause it can at least rescale video when your bandwith changes
<Alpha_Cluster> like when your watching a video it will will degrade nicely instead of stopping when your bandwith gets messed up that is something flash has never done and html5 doesnt solve
<Alpha_Cluster> i think the real way to solve the video thing woudl be to find a way to un encumber h.264
<Takyoji> Google supposedly might buy out On2 Technologies
<Alpha_Cluster> i thoguth they bought On2 awhile back>
<tonyyarusso> Me too - I think they did a while ago.
<Alpha_Cluster> oh wait
<Alpha_Cluster> its an pending offer
<tonyyarusso> ah
<Alpha_Cluster> its waiting for a stockholder approval
<tonyyarusso> so, announced, but not completed
<Alpha_Cluster> yep
<Alpha_Cluster> vote will take place on the 17th
<Takyoji> 4 days from now?
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah
<Alpha_Cluster> acording to wikipedia
<Takyoji> otherwise if they do acquire On2; hopefully they may open it up, and perhaps "drop" the patents in some fashion
<Alpha_Cluster> maybe
<Alpha_Cluster> depends on if google wants to play fair
<Takyoji> and if that happened; I wonder what would come of Theora..
<Alpha_Cluster> lol who knows Google iseems to be being more evil
<Alpha_Cluster> lately
<Alpha_Cluster> w00t USA gets gold in womens mogals!
<Takyoji> such examples being?
<Alpha_Cluster> well we can look at the google books dealings
<Alpha_Cluster> or the privicy messups with teh buzz launch
<Takyoji> I don't quite understand the case with Google Books
<Takyoji> or even really know of it
<Alpha_Cluster> basically google thinks it has the write to OWN the digital copies of public domain works
<Takyoji> and be a copyright holder of the digital copies?
<Alpha_Cluster> i think that is pretty much what it wouldbe
<Takyoji> ahh
<Alpha_Cluster> This Week in Google did a few good shows on the deal
<Takyoji> You know; I'd be quite curious.
<Takyoji> Someone should try to benchmark between Javascript (various browsers) and Actionscript (Flash)
<Takyoji> heh; interesting: http://jacksondunstan.com/articles/534
<Takyoji> Safari and Firefox's implementation of Javascript perform between than ActionScript 3 in Flash; based on the details tested
<Takyoji> It's in regards operations such as arrays, sorting, MD5, etc
<Takyoji> Someone should write a comparison using Canvas and graphical elements created with ActionScript; and benchmark it somewhere on that basis
<Alpha_Cluster> flash has never really seen speed gains so i wouldnt be to surprised if canvas could out do it
<Alpha_Cluster> specially since they could easily utalize openGL for hardware acceleration if they really needed it
<Takyoji> And my system froze again; tried any possible key combinations to no avail. Any suggestions?
<Alpha_Cluster> what are you doing when it freezes?
<Takyoji> It just happens at random. Usually just switching to a different tab in Empathy as someone says something
<Takyoji> Any error log(s) that would be useful for troubleshooting the issue?
<Alpha_Cluster> actually i remember last time i used ubuntu having odd issues with empathy i dont remember it crashing eveyrthing but i know that it crashed a few times
<Takyoji> Otherwise I'm able to move the mouse just fine; everything else is unresponsive
<Takyoji> Can't switch to a terminal screen with Ctrl+Alt+F#, etc
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah i think i remmber that happening a few times >.<
<Alpha_Cluster> try using pidgin?
<Takyoji> http://pastebin.com/d33e1c49c
<Takyoji> That's my kernel log until the point I restarted
<Alpha_Cluster> i think its cause empathy is crap[
<Takyoji> Although that shouldn't cause the whole system to be dysfunctional
<Alpha_Cluster> well it somehow does >.> problbly cause it more tied into gnome then it should be
<Takyoji> Of all things; why does it seem that the common instant messaging clients are considerably crap?
<Alpha_Cluster> ?
<Alpha_Cluster> i dont know pidgin has never been bad for me
<Takyoji> Pidgin has a couple bugs as well; ESPECIALLY with some things regarding IRC
<Takyoji> Pidgin stores all credentials in plaintext
<Alpha_Cluster> oh i use irssi or Xchat for irc
<Takyoji> I use XChat
<Alpha_Cluster> empathy soters in plaintext too i would think
<Takyoji> It uses the keyring
<Alpha_Cluster> ah ok
<Alpha_Cluster> didnt know it did that
<Takyoji> gnome-keyring
<Alpha_Cluster> i know waht keyring you meant
<Takyoji> If only more things actually implemented it..
<Takyoji> Evolution and Empathy are the only things that use it, that I know of
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah probably
<Alpha_Cluster> that is one of hte reasons i use OSX now like everything utalizes teh keyring
<Takyoji> I almost feel like writing a script that extracts all passwords from a system; just to see how pathetic it is.
<Takyoji> of course, it's far worse on Windows since there is no keyring at all
<Takyoji> I wonder if the keyring is accessible from Python
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Alpha_Cluster> the gnome-keyring should be it is written in
<Alpha_Cluster> C
<Takyoji> But how would you access it though?
<Takyoji> I guess there's a Python library for accessing it
<Alpha_Cluster> well otherwise though the C API
<Takyoji> ahh
<mr_steve> Takyoji, I've used gnome-keyring in Python
<mr_steve> It's not the most fun thing to do, but it's doable
<Takyoji> Someone wrote a simple script to access it in Python, based upon the interface provided
<mr_steve> There's a python module for it, but the interface is only documented by example. It basically follows the C interface though
<mr_steve> My largely abandoned Google Voice app uses the keyring, if you want some practical example code
<mr_steve> It's on launchpad at https://launchpad.net/gvoicebox
<Takyoji> ahh
<mr_steve> specfically, this file: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Esmcgrath23/gvoicebox/trunk/annotate/head%3A/gvoicebox/controllers/auth.py
<Takyoji> Dead for what reason?
<mr_steve> I haven't had the time to keep coding it
<Takyoji> ahh
<mr_steve> That code there should be pretty easy to follow, if you ignore the GtkMVC stuff. A keyring object is created in __init__, and accessed by get_auth and set_auth
<Takyoji> Seems fairly straightforward
<mr_steve> I was doing heavy debugging at that time, so it's still liberally sprinkled with logging statements
<Takyoji> heh ahh
<mr_steve> I really should start working on that again, I have some free time next week. It was fun
<h00k> tonyyarusso: I never did forward that email about the Global Jam, did I?
<_diablo> h00k, I didn't get it if you intended to send it to the group
<h00k> _diablo: I didn't, but I should
<_diablo> yup :)
<h00k> _diablo: there you go!
<_diablo> thanks!
<_diablo> :)
<Takyoji> Apparently H.264 is also used for ATSC transmissions as well..
<Takyoji> MPEG2 or H.264
<tonyyarusso> h00k: yeah you did.
<mr_steve> So, I'm tired of OpenOffice Writer's crap. I'd rather write papers with VIM, but I gotta submit them in MSOffice .doc format. Any ideas?
<Alpha_Cluster> there is that other app... why cant i think of it
<mr_steve> abiword? Yeah, I might give that a shot again too
<Alpha_Cluster> Abiword
<Alpha_Cluster> its gotten alot beter
<mr_steve> Either that or learn LaTex and submit my papers as PDF, that'd probably work. Maybe a little hardcore tho.
<Alpha_Cluster> lol i always wanted to do taht
<Alpha_Cluster> i knew someone that clamed he did htat
<_diablo> mr_steve, that's what I've been doing for my stats class
<_diablo> office doesn't work well with math functions
<mr_steve> _diablo, very true. I keep meaning to learn LaTex, it does make for beautiful documents
<Alpha_Cluster> _diablo: i thought office 07 worked pretty good for math stuff
<mr_steve> I think I'll just try out Abiword for now. I used to use it on Gentoo because compiling OOo took a weekend.
<_diablo> Alpha_Cluster, office 07 on gnu/linux
<_diablo> ?
<mr_steve> Openoffice has just been driving me nuts. It's always asking me to recover something, and if I leave it alone for 5 minutes while I research something, it bombs as soon as I start typing again
<_diablo> mr_steve, what version?
<Alpha_Cluster> lol i think it works in wine
<tonyyarusso> OOo Writer works fine for me....
<Alpha_Cluster> least i rember using it in wine i thought
<mr_steve> I'm using 1:3.2.0~rc2 I think, but I had the same problem in karmic too
<mr_steve> I filed bug #521607 but I haven't had a chance to get a backtrace yet
<ubot3> Malone bug 521607 in openoffice.org "Openoffice Writer crashes after inactivity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/521607
<Alpha_Cluster> just learn LaTex
<Alpha_Cluster> that nevercrashes
<mr_steve> Alpha_Cluster, exactly. And I can edit in Vim. I think I'll start reading about it, but not until after I finish this current paper
<_diablo> truth. I've had no problem with OO.o. I use it pretty intensively as well
<Alpha_Cluster> mr_steve: i think KDE has a very good LaTex editor too if you want a IDE
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<_diablo> mr_steve, I hear VIM has a very good LaTex editor.
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah i have heard taht as well i just never trusted VIM for the lack of spell checking
<Alpha_Cluster> or can you add that and i just missed it?
<mr_steve> Alpha_Cluster, spellcheck is built in, though it has a learning curve
<_diablo> It's not soooooo awful.
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<mr_steve> You do :set spell, and it'll highlight misspelled words. And then in insert mode you can put the cursor on a word and do Ctrl-X s to get a pop-up of suggestions
<Alpha_Cluster> ahh
<mr_steve> I'm using Vim more and more and it's actually starting to make sense. Scary.
<Alpha_Cluster> http://www.xm1math.net/texmaker/
<Alpha_Cluster> there is another option
<mr_steve> Kinda nifty. I can probably get by just fine in Vim though, maybe with some add-ons. The most fancy formatting I'd be using is italics, and the occasional bulleted/numbered list.
<mr_steve> I don't have to write papers for my math class, thank $DEITY
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah if your not doing math stuff then you could use gedit
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<_diablo> ugh. gedit is so limited. and you're locked to the rat to use it
 * tonyyarusso <3 gedit
<_diablo> gross.
<Alpha_Cluster> i love gedit and kate
<Alpha_Cluster> both are better then VIM or Emacs
<_diablo> Alpha_Cluster doesn't know what (s)he is taking about
<_diablo> brb
<Alpha_Cluster> oh trust me i know what i am talking about
<h00k> er. You can't use gedit if you don't have x running.
<h00k> Different tools for different jobs.
<_diablo> gedit also lacks all the sweeeet fast editing capabilities of VIM
<_diablo> e.g. line-jumping, word-jumping
<Alpha_Cluster> actually i should say i am a fan of LSE
<_diablo> london stock exchange? london school of economics?
<_diablo> !google LSE
<ubot3> Factoid google lse not found
<_diablo> oh, we don't have a bot that does that. oops.
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Alpha_Cluster> its something something editor
<Alpha_Cluster> its on VMS
<tonyyarusso> Language Sensitive Editor
<_diablo> why are you running VMS?
<tonyyarusso> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/5340/5340_.htm
<Alpha_Cluster> well my school had a VMS cluster still
<Alpha_Cluster> and companies still use VMs
<_diablo> tonyyarusso, I know what it is lol, Just wondering why
<_diablo> yeah, that's fair enough
<Alpha_Cluster> so if you google search turbotax mac its like intuit hten all torrent trackers
<Alpha_Cluster> who would torrent tax software?
<kermit> who would use turbotax?
<tonyyarusso> We used to, but they kept charging more and more for fewer features, so we said screw it and hired an accountant instead.
<kermit> i havent had much luck with turbotax or accountants, i do my own now
<tonyyarusso> My parents, that is.  I do mine by hand.  :S
<tonyyarusso> My parents have a combination of complicatedness of their taxes and value of their time that makes doing their own no longer make sense.
<mr_steve> I'd still like to get a SupyBot in here for Googley goodness and etc. I think freenode says 1 bot per channel though, and we've already got ubot3 and the logger
<kermit> i havent found that accountants or turbotax do anything but make things more complicated
<_diablo> mr_steve, are you sure that's freenode's policy?
<tonyyarusso> Freenode has no such policy.
<kermit> i've never heard that policy
<h00k> ^ this
<h00k> It's per channel
<tonyyarusso> I don't see what the point of a googlebot would be though.
<h00k> perhaps it should just give lmgtfy links.
<tonyyarusso> haha
<_diablo> lolz
<mr_steve> heh, now I'm totally going to write such a plugin for Supybot
<Alpha_Cluster> i perfer turbotax cause i dont trust myself to not messup doing it by hane
<Alpha_Cluster> hand
<mr_steve> I'm doing my taxes by hand this week and it sucks. Partnership return for my failed business, and mine and the GFs 1040s
<_diablo> ouch.
<_diablo> that's going to be painful
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah that sounds hard
<mr_steve> The 1065 for partnerships is a nightmare. Way more complicated than it has to be.
<mr_steve> It's like 8 pages of forms just to report the $300 profit I had last year.
<kermit> Alpha_Cluster: to me it seems turbotax gives you more opportunities to mess up than doing it by hand
<h00k> I'll consider either using TurboTax online or do it by hand, I haven't decided
<kermit> any tax software still has to ask you for all the same information as is on the tax forms, or if it doesnt then it'll miss that information.
<Alpha_Cluster> eh
<Alpha_Cluster> more the issue is messing up the math
<kermit> i use efile express, which is the tax forms, except it'll calculate the calculated fields
<kermit> but you're entering the info directly on the actual forms
<h00k> My taxes aren't too complicated, anyway.
<kermit> http://www.efile-express.com/
<Alpha_Cluster> btw the Department of reenue is running sun servers
<mr_steve> What I liked about turbotax last year was just the way it presented most questions cleary. With the IRS forms/instructions you get stuck in a chain of "See page 10, see page 7, see form 8859 line 14b, see page 12, etc."
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah taht is waht confuses me
<kermit> h00k: i remember when i was 18 and did mine with touch-tone on a phone call to the IRS, no forms!   oh the simple life.
<Alpha_Cluster> or i sit there thinking "do i need to fill this field out"
<kermit> mr_steve: thats becasue turbotax just leaves out stuff most people dont use.. you're just as free to NOT see page 10, etc etc, on the real forms, and hope it doesnt apply to you
<h00k> kermit: I think I did that, once.
<Alpha_Cluster> kermit: only like 10% of people need to see that page probably
<kermit> the IRS will actually ask if you qualify for the one legged hermaphrodite tax credit.. turbotax just doenst bother.
<kermit> er, the IRS forms/instructions
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Alpha_Cluster> did you qualify for that?
<kermit> its a good thing i was using the actual forms!
<kermit> ;P
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<mr_steve> haha I spent an hour yesterday looking through the list of tax credits for the business, trying to figure out if any of them applied. Finally I just decided I don't care.
<Alpha_Cluster> like i said the real forms tend ot just add more confusion with teh "check page X if you qualify" then page x says "check the table on page y
<Alpha_Cluster> "
<mr_steve> The various software packages are usually pretty good about asking you "did you do this? Did you do this? okay, then you need to do this:"
<kermit> i'm not sure how turbotax just not asking you at all is easier than choosing to not check if you use the IRS forms.
<Alpha_Cluster> kermit you can quickly get lost and confused with the forms
<kermit> better than over paying $10k of taxes because some software app didnt ask you about something
<tonyyarusso> Alpha_Cluster: it's okay, if you do mess up doing it by hand the IRS just sends you a nice letter saying "uh, box 83 looks wrong - I think you owe us $80.  plz send that in?  kthxbai"
<Alpha_Cluster> i mean i can fill out a 1040EZ in minutes sure but turbotax makes sure i caught allthe stuff i needed and does the math right
<Alpha_Cluster> lol tonyyarusso yeah i gnerally get money from them
<Alpha_Cluster> never actually had to pay in after filing
<mr_steve> I'm pretty sure the IRS is going to have a problem with some part of my 1065, but I'm gonna tell 'em to get stuffed. I figure if I make an honest attempt to report my business activities correctly, I shouldn't need to be familliar with thousands of pages of tax law.
<tonyyarusso> yeah, last year I owed over a thousand bucks due to having the wrong exemption on file with one employer :(
<kermit> god if you're using a 1040EZ i'd just use a pen.
<tonyyarusso> (I took a second job, but employer #1 was only deducting for me having one.)
<Alpha_Cluster> kermit i have used a pen for filling them out in class 2 times
<tonyyarusso> and yeah, the 1040EZ is super simple, but I didn't qualify for it last year.
<Alpha_Cluster> and i actually dont know if the 1040EZ will work for me this year
<tonyyarusso> I had to do a regular 1040 AND some Schedule C thing, plus something else.
<tonyyarusso> I did however get a kick out of reporting the $0.74 I had paid in foreign taxes.
<mr_steve> I had use the regular 1040 last year but I got to use schedule C-EZ
<kermit> tonyyarusso: that's something like what happened to the treasury secretary
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Alpha_Cluster> you reported .74 cents?
<tonyyarusso> yup
<tonyyarusso> There was a box for it!
<tonyyarusso> well, no.  .74 *dollars*.  74 cents.
<Alpha_Cluster> lol good point
<Alpha_Cluster> i dont think you wold have known about 3/4 of a cent
<tonyyarusso> (It was from dividends on foreign stock.)
<Alpha_Cluster> ahh
<Alpha_Cluster> see i have no actual investments i hold like that cause they are messy
<tonyyarusso> Thankfully, my broker sends me a packet will all of the IRS form and box numbers marked, so I can just copy values over from their summary to my filing.
<tonyyarusso> s/will/with/
<Alpha_Cluster> lol well they are required to send you a form of some kind to prove it happend
<tonyyarusso> Yeah, but they aren't required to add them all up and mark which ones are classified which way and all of that, but they do, which makes me happy.
<tonyyarusso> (There were like 10 pages of the actual reports, but then a cover page just for "how do I mark this on my taxes" stuff)
<Alpha_Cluster> really i thought with tax stuff you had to be blunt and say "here is X you use for filing"
<Alpha_Cluster> ahh
<tonyyarusso> (I have holdings in ~60 different stocks/funds, so adding everything up right myself would kinda suck)
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah that would
<Alpha_Cluster> i just let money trickle into my 401K
<tonyyarusso> Yay for teh Intarnetz and the advent of fractional shares!
<Alpha_Cluster> figuring when it really matters it will be there
<tonyyarusso> It's pretty funny though when they send out a mailing that probably cost them $10 just to ask me how I'd like to cast my .0000000004% vote on the board of directors for things.
<Alpha_Cluster> hey your vote matters
<Alpha_Cluster> legally i mean not actually lol
<tonyyarusso> I think my vote matters more in actual elections than any of my financial holdings.
<tonyyarusso> I mean, what was Franken's final margin, like 300?
<_diablo> and that's saying somethign :)
<kermit> i managed to get my 2008 return down to 24 pages
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah i still cant believe franken won
<kermit> tonyyarusso: did you know you can send your broker's gain/loss summary as-is for a D-1, rather than copying all the transactions on a D-1 ?
<kermit> tonyyarusso: some of my accountants/tax preparers liked to copy it all, then charge me a lot for the pointless service
<tonyyarusso> 312, according to Wikipedia.
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<tonyyarusso> kermit: no, I didn't.
<kermit> tonyyarusso: i've been doing it for 8 years
<kermit> tax software  doesnt like you to know that either :)
<Alpha_Cluster> well software genearlly doesnt like you
<kermit> with efiling  i just put a line "D-1 sent via mail" with the total from the broker's gain/loss sheet, then mail it to them seperately.
<Alpha_Cluster> less your playing a dating sim then it pretends to
<kermit> Alpha_Cluster: that sounds like a fun game
<tonyyarusso> omg, why is it that responding to someone once makes them convinced they should keep highlighting you about their question for hours?
<Alpha_Cluster> kermit: what you want to play a dating sim
<Alpha_Cluster> ?
<Takyoji> :P
<kermit> Alpha_Cluster: yes
<kermit> Alpha_Cluster: i didnt know such a thing existed
<Alpha_Cluster> really?
<Alpha_Cluster> they are huge in japan
<_diablo> some guy just married his GF in one
<Alpha_Cluster> yeah
<kermit> it'd save me a fortune on strippers
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Alpha_Cluster> wait do you want clean dating sim or ergo games?
<kermit> 'ergo'?
<Alpha_Cluster> h-game >.<
<Alpha_Cluster> basically its a dating sim with hentai
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<_diablo> aka nerd-gf
<kermit> whichever is most realistic
<Alpha_Cluster> is it just me or is luge the most boring sport ever?
<tonyyarusso> except when they crash, but now we're hoping they won't, so yes.
<kermit> Alpha_Cluster: wow this is neat, i'm playing the Summer Session demo.
<Alpha_Cluster> serously you didnt know about these?
<kermit> Alpha_Cluster: no
<Alpha_Cluster> i feel kind of bad
<kermit> huh why wasnt Leisure Suit Larry listed on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_sim
<Alpha_Cluster> that i may have just enabled you to a datig sim addiction
<Alpha_Cluster> cause that is not at all like what a dating sim is technically like i htink >.<
<kermit> yeah but maybe i'll save a fortune on strippers, booze, taxis, and the liability of having giant house parties.
<kermit> if i learn some dating skills
<Alpha_Cluster> mind you most of what  i know about the dating sims is what i have learned from Anime since i have not played dating sims
 * Alpha_Cluster has also watched many Animes that are based on Dating sims >.<
<Alpha_Cluster> that sounds silly doesn tit
<kermit> wow
<kermit> no thats great, i need these animes, if they're at all realistic
<Alpha_Cluster> what do you mean? they are all clean the ones i watch and tehy are just your standard romance anime
<kermit> i've been spending about $2-3k/mo for the last 8 months girl chasing.. i managed to get one gf for 10 days during that time.
<Alpha_Cluster> i hope to god your joking
<kermit> no, every other line on my bank statement is an ATM
<kermit> Alpha_Cluster: what anime films to you recommend?
<Alpha_Cluster> what kind of anime are you wanting?
<tonyyarusso> That's......beyond pathetic and well into just plain worrying.
<kermit> Alpha_Cluster: what we were talknig about.. dating simulation
<Alpha_Cluster> um..
<Alpha_Cluster> well there are no films that i can think of covering that
<Alpha_Cluster> but the anime Shuffle! and To Heart were both based off dating sims i believe
<kermit> tonyyarusso: i'd be impressed if many people on freenode are doing better
<tonyyarusso> kermit: even if they aren't managing to get relationships they aren't blowing their salary in their failure.
<kermit> Alpha_Cluster: i thought you just said you've seen many that are based on dating sims
<tonyyarusso> aka, "ur doin it wrong"
<kermit> tonyyarusso: its true not trying means not failing
<_diablo> Metropolis was good.
<_diablo> Also, death note
<tonyyarusso> You don't need to spend obscene amounts of money to "try".  Doing so merely means you don't have anything legitimate to try with.
<_diablo> :(
<tonyyarusso> You're basically just pretending to court when actually you're just bad at shopping for hookers.
<Alpha_Cluster> _diablo: we were dissuing ones bassed off dating sims >.<
<Alpha_Cluster> School Days is another
<kermit> tonyyarusso: what's your approach o wise one?
<_diablo> oh... fun
<tonyyarusso> kermit: currently?  Not particularly looking.
<tonyyarusso> But in general, uh, anything other than whatever the heck you're doing.
<kermit> tonyyarusso: yet preaching your skills, interesting.
<kermit> tonyyarusso: obviously you're just blowing smoke.
<tonyyarusso> Seriously, how do you even manage to spend $100 a day?
<tonyyarusso> No, I'm not.
<tonyyarusso> Normal people can date on less than $36,000 a year for their dating budget...
<kermit> taxis.. $20, bar drinks $50, cover $15, cigarettes $6.. that's $90.. 3 times per week thats $1k/mo
<kermit> then add another $1k for the strippers after bars close.
<tonyyarusso> Okay, start by not smoking, then go places that don't have a cover, for starters.
<kermit> i love how freenoders can take such pride in their lack of failure while admitting they arent even trying.
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<kermit> tonyyarusso: cafes?
<tonyyarusso> kermit: or just normal restaurant/bars that aren't "clubs".
<tonyyarusso> You know, where grown-ups go.
<Alpha_Cluster> lol
<Alpha_Cluster> most younger poeple dont go clubing
<kermit> hmmthe only place i know without a cover has the youngest croud
<kermit> (because there's no cover..)
<kermit> (brother's)
<tonyyarusso> Surely you can't consider $3,600 per day of actual relationship to be a success.
<kermit> actually i know one place with no cover.. my house..  and cheaper drinks, i think that will work well.  last weekend i had about 60 people here.
<tonyyarusso> hey, it's snowing some more.
<Takyoji> Same here
<Alpha_Cluster> not even very cloudy here
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-02-08
<fisch246> anyone here in the metro? there will be a party in Hopkins if you're in the area :)
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-02-09
<Takyoji> Oh hey, guess what. Now they've changed FAFSA registration to do user agent sniffing, and only allow you to register for financial aid, ONLY if you have Windows or Mac.
<tonyyarusso> lol
<sparklehistory> That could be problematic
<tonyyarusso> Obviously that's silly, since Mac users can't be eligible for financial aid anyway, since they're happy to blow their money on a Mac.  :P
<sparklehistory> haha, so true
<Takyoji> Shall I write ragemail then?
<tonyyarusso> Of course.
<Takyoji> Shall I specifically pick on the aspect of our government horrendously idiotic choice of contractors?
<Takyoji> of how they don't know crap about what "web standards" or "standards-compliant" even means.
<Takyoji> And then user agent sniffing in generally is the most shunned upon thing in web development.
<Takyoji> And that*
<Takyoji> Submitted a tip to OMG Ubuntu to perhaps bring it to the issue to the general public more and perhaps have some people take initiative.
<Takyoji> Since I figure just my complaint alone won't cause any change at all.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2011-02-13
<Takyoji> I wonder how big OpenStreetMap's database is
<Takyoji> If it's under just 1GB or something
<Takyoji> I'm surprised that they just have it as raster images.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2014-02-08
<mathomastech> Anyone at devfest today? www.devfest.mn
#ubuntu-us-mn 2015-02-02
<tonyyarusso> kinda
#ubuntu-us-mn 2015-02-05
 * mbruzek waves at mthx
<mbruzek> reading your email now mthx
<mbruzek> so it is not a dead irc channel
<mthx> mbruzek: Hey!
<mbruzek> Hello Marc
<mbruzek> Yes I was talking about the RabbitHole
<mbruzek> And I am a member of KLUG
<mthx> Okay, cool. I spoke at K-LUG in October on recloudifying your life. Did I happen to meet you there?
<mbruzek> no I must have missed that one
<mthx> Ahh, ok. I don't make it down to Rochester often. Hard to get there by 6.
<mthx> for the meetings *
 * tonyyarusso also waves at mbruzek and mthx 
<mbruzek> Hello Tony
<mthx> Afternoon tonyyarusso!
<tonyyarusso> Glad to see you're talking about trying to do something for the global jam.
<mthx> Think you might be available to join us?
<tonyyarusso> Quite possibly.
<tonyyarusso> I had originally been thinking I'd be out of town this weekend, but it looks like choir needs me on Sunday so I should stick around.
<mbruzek> mthx Just got your email coffeshop is fine with me.
<mbruzek> mthx what time works for you?  I would prefer sometime afternoon
<mthx|laptop> mbruzek: Most anytime after 1 on Saturday works for me. Just saw on the mailing list that brian is going to reach out on TC-LUG and possibly look for a location in the Lakeville/Inver Grove area.
<mbruzek> after 1 works for me as well.
<mbruzek> I will check the email and try to drive up if I can.
<mbruzek> I just need to know exactly where to go since I don't live up there.
<mbruzek> Time/place should be in the email though
<tonyyarusso> IGH would be preferable to Lakeville for me personally, but I can't gripe too much if mbruzek is coming all the way from Rochester.
<mbruzek> tonyyarusso: I don't mind.
<mbruzek> Lakeville is on the south side of the cities
<tonyyarusso> mbruzek: Very much so - south of the split.
<mbruzek> Later guys!
#ubuntu-us-mn 2015-02-06
<mthx|laptop> Any decision yet on time/place for tomorrow?
<mthx|laptop> Or are we still waiting to hear back on the TC-LUG and Penguins Unbound lists?
<mbruzek> mthx|laptop_:  Who emailed those groups?
<mthx|laptop_> mbruzek: Brian Dolan-Goecke.
<mthx|laptop_> He was the other one who had responded to your original email
<mbruzek> mthx|laptop_:  Do you have some place in Lakeville or IGH to meet?
<mbruzek> or would you prefer Northfield?
<mthx|laptop_> I don't have any place in Lakeville or IGH in mind personally. TBH, I've never stopped in either of those towns before, always just passed through them. I believe Brian had suggested Lakeville/IGH because it would appeal to the TC crowd more. Northfields another 10-15 minutes south of those towns.
<mbruzek> bah!
<mbruzek> ANYWHERE in the twin cities is an hour drive.
<mthx|laptop_> Let me clarfiy, Northfield is only 10-15 minutes further south than lakeville/IGH
<mbruzek> I am happy with either, city.  I would be able to join at 2pm or so
<mthx|laptop> If we do northfield, The Hideaway is a great coffeeshop. I go there every week to work on personal projects. If there's a lot of people (and I know ahead of time), I can reserve at lab on St. Olaf campus.
#ubuntu-us-mn 2015-02-07
<mthx|laptop> mbruzek: http://mthx.org/blog/2014/12/15/System76GalagoUltraPro.html
