#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-25
<snap-l> http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/9135/organizing-my-collection-of-dd-3e-3-5-rulebooks
<snap-l> This is the very definition of a first world problem.
<Wolfger> Morning
<rick_h_> party
<Wolfger> \o/
<Wolfger> I was hoping it would be a party day
<rick_h_> actually more sore from the weekend party vs a party day
<Wolfger> LOL
<Wolfger> I hate those "sore from the weekend" parties
<brousch> no more details please, it's too early for that kind of thing
<Wolfger> was there lube involved? I bet there wasn't... :-D
 * Wolfger blames brousch for that comment
<brousch> bad
<brousch> bad bad bad
<Wolfger> it's awesome, because both "yes" and "no" are bad answers to give... rick_h_ seems to have realized this and taken the safe option of ignoring it completely. Party pooper.
<brousch> speaking of lube
<brousch> good morning, snap-l
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Just finished mowing the front and back lawns this fine morning
<snap-l> I <3 my push mower
<snap-l> no guilt over mowing the lawn
<brousch> electric > manual
<snap-l> Maybe, but with this I don't have one more thing getting in my way (cord)
<snap-l> And I don't mean just physically; I also mean unravelling an extension cord would be the one more thing to keep me from mowing the lawn
<Wolfger> brousch: anything else > electric lawnmower > no lawnmower
<Wolfger> and I'm not sure about the last part of that statement... I might just opt to not mow if all I had was electric
<snap-l> ANother satisfied customer. :)
<snap-l> God, only Windows XP boot-up could make Chrome feel slow.
<snap-l> ^Corporate Windows XP
<snap-l> brb
<jrwren> good morning
<jrwren> everyone ready for next weekend?
<Wolfger> indeed!
<Wolfger> and the weekend after as well
<Wolfger> Oh, you're talking about PyOhio, aren't you? :-p
<jrwren> snap-l: you ahve one of those heavy manuals that use momentum nicely once they get going?
<jrwren> snap-l: truth on coporate windows.  its sick how great a well configured windows can be and just how fucked up a corporate windows can be.
<rick_h_> damn you oreilly
<jjesse> corporate windows can be setup correctly
<snap-l> jrwren: It's a Fiskars push power. It's quite nice
<snap-l> rick_h_: What did O'Reilly do now?
<rick_h_> got me on a deal of the day
<snap-l> Oh, nice.
<snap-l> Also, watched MArck of the Penguins
<snap-l> Bah, March of the Penguins
<snap-l> and I have to say, Penguins are motherfucking hardcore.
<rick_h_> yea, that was kind of cool
<rick_h_> even my wife loved it
<Wolfger> was a cool if somewhat boring movie
<Wolfger> and yeah, penguins are pretty hardcore
<snap-l> Well, we weren't about to see it in the theater.
<snap-l> and the hype sort of died down afterward
<snap-l> But it popped up on Netflix, and we decided "why not"?
<Wolfger> rick_h_: that's an interesting-sounding e-book. Drop a review on us when you're done. :-)
<rick_h_> Wolfger: sure :)
<Wolfger> It's really sad that I can get a print copy of an O'Reilly book from Amazon for cheaper than the e-book version from O'Reilly
<rick_h_> huh?
<rick_h_> with the deal of the day this thing is $8
<rick_h_> amazon's not lower, I checked
<Wolfger> with the deal of the day, sure
<Wolfger> Amazon isn't more than 50% less
<Wolfger> :-)
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> I find them usually pretty close
<Wolfger> I'm looking at Learning Python and Programming Python
<rick_h_> and from Oreilly you get pdf, mobi, and epub, and you get book updates/etc
<Wolfger> $40 and $52 in e-book from O'R
<Wolfger> $31 and $38 in print from Ama
<Wolfger> $28 and $34 for Kindle
<Wolfger> there's something wrong when Amazon is cheaper than buying direct
<rick_h_> meh, called margins
<Wolfger> and I won't even mention O'R's print prices
<rick_h_> yea, well we won't go there
<Wolfger> it's just absurd
<rick_h_> see borders
<snap-l> In case you aren't aware, printing and distributing books is expensive. :-P
<snap-l> And Learning Python / Programming Python could be used to leven a three-legged table.
<rick_h_> that's what they tell me, but the e-books tend to come out pretty close to the print books in prices
<rick_h_> strange that way :P
<snap-l> Well, I'm sure you'd like the author and the editor to get paid, right?
<snap-l> and the lovely people who promote the book
<snap-l> they also have to be slightly more expensive than print, or they'll kill off their print business
<Wolfger> snap-l: yes, printing and distributing is expensive. Which is why I'm wondering how a printed and distributed via 3rd party copy of the book is cheaper than an electronic version direct from the publisher.
<snap-l> and piss off that chain
<snap-l> Problem is there's a dichotomy there (false or otherwise) that says that if you make one or the other cheaper, it'll canibalize the other)
<jrwren> i like getting the used books from amazon. tech books for $5 is awesome.
<snap-l> So, most make print their priority
<snap-l> I consider O'Reilly one of the more enlightened on pricing ebooks vs. print
<Wolfger> in any event, the electronic version is cheaper than the print version from the same seller... so at least *some* sense is made.
<snap-l> even though they're a little high
<jrwren> e.g. Programming Python... 3.99 used :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Check the edition
<jrwren> i know ;(
<jrwren> it will be "now covers version 1.4!"
<Wolfger> Yeah, that's the one problem with used
<snap-l> Yeah, I've used the Apress "ebook version for $10" with Amazon's $5 used books
<jrwren> ebook of the day? Think Stats?
<Wolfger> I would probably buy a "Learning" book used, but a reference book that's used is being sold either because it's out of date or it just plain sucks as a reference.
<snap-l> Wolfger: The Learning Python book got a lot better with this rev
<snap-l> You could actually use it for reference
<snap-l> Wolfger: There's also dumping that occurs with the new rev
<Wolfger> snap-l: seriously? The new Learning Python is that good? I was considering skipping it.
<Wolfger> Learning books are too often read once and resell.
<snap-l> I'm enjoying it
<snap-l> And I didn't enjoy the last revision
<snap-l> I also got the ebook because my bookshelf is really full at the moment. ;)
<Wolfger> I need to look through my books and figure out what to keep and what to toss/donate/sell. I have a bunch mostly collecting dust.
<Wolfger> I'm saddened by the number of Java books I bought when I suddenly needed to code Java. Now I no longer have the need, and certainly not the desire. On the other hand, you never know when they might come in handy again.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Get rid of them
<snap-l> Most likely they're old anyway
<snap-l> Like Perl Books.
<snap-l> Only a handful of them are current now with the release of 5.14
<Wolfger> heh. They were old when I bought them off the discount shelf at Microcenter :-)
<Wolfger> My group still, so far as I know, codes to a 1.3 base :-p
<snap-l> Seriously?
<Wolfger> srsly
<snap-l> Not even 1.5?
<Wolfger> the books I bought, which were old, were more advanced that our code base
<snap-l> Oh my
<Wolfger> I'm like "why don't we use this feature", and they're all "that's not supported in 1.3"
<snap-l> You might as well be programming in Python 1.5 then.
<Wolfger> eek
<Wolfger> well, not my problem anymore, except insofar as I have to work with the shoddy system
<Wolfger> all the dev work was outsourced
<snap-l> That's still pathetic
<Wolfger> My career as a dev lasted only about 1 year
<snap-l> Are you sure you're not meaning J2EE 1.3?
<snap-l> at least that is Java 2
<brousch> they must be blackberry devs
<Wolfger> I'm not 100% positive. I still get confused about Java naming/versioning.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Me too, which is why I ask. :)
<snap-l> 1.3 is still 2002 era
<snap-l> but it's not Java 1.3, which is EOL as of 2004
<snap-l> Still, in either case, that's fucking old.
<Wolfger> Looking at some old code, no Java version indication
<Wolfger> but I'm fairly certain they told me it was Java 1.3
<snap-l> blergh
<snap-l> Solaris 8?
<Wolfger> mind you, we migrated to 1.4
<Wolfger> but we were using 1.3 compatible code
<Wolfger> AIX
<Wolfger> 5.3 I think it was at the time
<Wolfger> *lightbulb*
<snap-l> http://i.imgur.com/Y5vAl.jpg
<snap-l> That is my current wallpaper
<Wolfger> Well, currently still some version of AIX 5 and the Java installed is Java5 per "which"
<snap-l> Nice.
<Wolfger> I should know better by now than to click on your links
<snap-l> Wolfger: one sec
<snap-l> Once the slow-boat to U1 finishes, I'll publish a new link
<Wolfger> Man, TigerDirect sucked me in again. I hate that. "Awesome Fantastic Tech For CHEAP!!!" (after rebate, if you remember to send it in, and *eventually* we process it)
<snap-l> That's one of the reasons I hate Tiger Direct
<Blazeix> yeah, basically, don't use tiger direct.
<Blazeix> I've had two encounters with them, both were terrible.
<snap-l> Wolfger: http://ubuntuone.com/p/16AN/
<snap-l> IIRC< they also picked up Gateway for a song?
<brousch> they deliver in less than a day
<brousch> but a lot of the cheap refurb stuff is junk
<snap-l> Ah, I think Acer bought them?
<snap-l> Who knows... all I know is they make garbage
<snap-l> and Tiger Direct peddles garbage.
<Wolfger> I've rarely had problems with TD quality. Bought many refurbs from them that were solid. Only problem I ever had was when some idiot bundled a mobo and cpu together that weren't compatible.
<Wolfger> but I got sick of all the rebate nonsense
<Wolfger> snap-l: that is the coolest AvP wallpaper I have ever seen
<Wolfger> would you mind if I Buzzed that link?
<snap-l> There's also one of them playing chess
<snap-l> Actually, if you want the reddit link
<snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/ii0gg/alien_vs_predator/
<Wolfger> cool
<snap-l> That's where I got it initially.
<jrwren> but perl has changed so little from 5.0 to 5.14 that any book in the last 10 yrs is fine for learning perl.
<jrwren> i think I'd rather support vb6 apps than java 1.3 apps.
<Wolfger> ++
<snap-l> jrwren: I hate to say it, but I agree
<brousch> snap-l: http://spin.atomicobject.com/2011/07/25/vim-setup-for-arduino-syntax-and-tags
<snap-l> Nice. :)
<snap-l> I'll be lucky to have a job in the next few weeks
<snap-l> getting very irritated with my boss
<brousch> ut oh
<snap-l> I'm not sure what she's playing but she's definitely one who likes interrupting things with our business
<snap-l> And I'm sure she's invited half of the fucking company for my otherwise informal knowledge sharing session
<rick_h_> lol, she's using you to make her look good
<snap-l> Just said on the call "Not sure why you're bringing this up now, but OK".
<rick_h_> she sets it up, gets everyone there, you blow them away and she gets the praise
<rick_h_> man, sounds like she's grasping at straws to prove she's doing something
<snap-l> Apparently.
<snap-l> She's asking about funding and shit for a weekly status call.
<snap-l> FML FML FML FML FML
<rick_h_> uh oh
<brousch> someone give snap-l a hug
<greg-g> snap-l: is it just me, or is the angle of that pint glass wrong vis a vis the table it is on?
<snap-l> greg-g: It's a little off perspectivewise
<greg-g> snap-l: it is like I'm supposed to be looking straight on to it, but that isn't how everything else around it is
<greg-g> anywho.. ;)
<greg-g> there's also a predator and an alien playing pool, so who am I to critique
<_stink_> IT MUST BE FAKE!
<greg-g> It's definitely a 'shop. I've seen them before, and this looks like a 'shop.
<rick_h_> ooh yay, bike stuff is out for delivery
<rick_h_> just need the bike now, come on people, get moving
<brousch> riding down to pyohio?
<rick_h_> hah, not quite
<rick_h_> well riding the car down
<rick_h_> though would be cool to bring the bike down there
<brousch> we're commuting in from about 3 miles out
<rick_h_> I should try to find a room mate
<rick_h_> then again, plan on sprinting until I drop
<brousch> for me, that would be 10:30pm
<rick_h_> yea, I've cut myself off of caffiene the last couple of weeks
<rick_h_> plan on inhaling much over the weekend
<greg-g> wow
<Wolfger> that's the way to do it. Get off the stuff now so it has more impact when you need it. :-)
<Wolfger> (he was referring to caffeine when he said he planned on "inhaling much", right?)
<Wolfger> </Bill Clinton>
<greg-g> also: http://scienceblogs.com/developingintelligence/2008/02/optimally_wired_a_caffeine_use.php
<rick_h_> lol, I wasn't that serious, but good info
<Wolfger> interesting read, greg-g
<greg-g> scienceblogs == mostly good stuff
<snap-l> Well, this is the opposite of good
<snap-l> JoDee got in a car accident
<snap-l> she's fine
<greg-g> !!!!
<snap-l> need to see what happened.
<snap-l> Apparently the side of the car isn't there anymore.
<greg-g> oh man!
<greg-g> I'm so sorry
<snap-l> np
<_stink_> :(
<Wolfger> Glad she's ok. Sorry about the car. :-(
<snap-l> Yeah, just one more thing
<rick_h_> oh man, crap
<jjesse> bummer dude glad jodee is fine
<rick_h_> mac bashing of the day: https://gimmebar.com/view/4e2dadd22e0aaae4690000b6/big
<brousch> wow
<brousch> i am hugging my 10.04 because i have multiple monitors and predictable moving of windows between them
<brousch> another thing that was really bugging me in unity was having to middle-click an icon to open a new instance of an already running program. i cannot reliably middle-click on this laptop. the only other method is super+shift+number corresponding to the icon in the launcher
<brousch> holding 3 keys with one hand is not fun
<_stink_> that's emacs
<Wolfger> brousch: was the non-unity Gnome desktop not working for you in 11.04?
<brousch> hm, didn't try it
<brousch> i'm still on 10.04 at work due to video driver issues, so i decided to stick to it at home for a while too
<snap-l> I'm using 11.04 with Unity
<snap-l> Also, car is in the shop. JoDee's OK.
<rick_h_> good stuff
<brousch> snap-l: that's good to hear
<snap-l> No worries. Cars can be fixed
<snap-l> Thanks. :)
<snap-l> Exporting the latest Open Metalcast
<snap-l> howdy again
<snap-l> fun day
<jrwren> anyone around to help me through packaging? its been a while.
<rick_h_> jrwren: what are you packaging?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-26
<jrwren> trying to backport netatalk 2.2~beta4 to natty
<jrwren> couldn't remember debuild commmand
<jrwren> now its croaking on some C code that looks right to me :(
<jrwren> so fuck it... i spent nearly 30min on it... I'll go back to work.
<jrwren> i'm getting "error: array type has incomplete element type" from the C compiler, but I look at the ldapconfig header and the type that is there is complete and good and matches where it is used.
<rick_h_> hmm, no idea
<jcastro> rick_h_: I am wary of those monoprice arms
<jcastro> there's no way $20 arms can work
<jcastro> jrwren: you know where to  ask packaging questions!
<jrwren> where?
<jcastro> askubuntu!
<jrwren> rofl. good call.
<jcastro> come on, captain obvious
<jrwren> well, in this case I'm stuck at a C question.
<rick_h_> jcastro: yea, I've got a pair of hte $20 ones
<rick_h_> they're ok, but that's why I upgraded to the other ones I linked you
<jcastro> rick_h_: right, that's what I figured
<jcastro> hey do you know how much weight they'll hold?
<jcastro> I wonder if it will hold Jill's eeetop
<rick_h_> says 18"
<rick_h_> 18lbs I mean
<jrwren> confirmed. netatalk2.2beta4 source from sf does not build on natty :(    i don't see how it builds on oneric, but I don't have an oneric to test on
<jcastro> grab the source from oneiric
<jcastro> and build on natty
<jcastro> deb-src http://blah oneiric
<jcastro> then apt-get source it
<jcastro> then debuild it
<jcastro> rick_h_: the eetop weighs 16 lbs according to the specs
<jcastro> rick_h_: heh so basically I'm going to get 4 of these
<jrwren> i tried that first :)
<rick_h_> jcastro: cool
<jrwren> i was just confirming that its not anything with the ubuntu deb patch. the straight sorce doesn't build either :(
<rick_h_> http://monitor1.redspider.co.nz:8888/static/ui_test.html
<rick_h_> crazy
<snap-l> Blergh
<greg-g> snap-l: how's things? JoDee doing OK?
<snap-l> Yeah, she's fine
<snap-l> Car is in the shop. And now we do the insurance / collision shop waiting dance
<greg-g> You guys have only one car, right?
<snap-l> Yep
<snap-l> Though we're borrowing my parents car.
<snap-l> rick_h_: https://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G
<snap-l> I believe this is your worst nightmare. ;)
<snap-l> jcastro: Trying not to be that guy. ;)
<snap-l> (https://plus.google.com/116015965439782966698 for those playing at home)
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh, not sure it's my worst nightmare
<Wolfger> morning
<snap-l> I really, really am not happy with my new boss
<snap-l> Told her that my car was in the shop and didn't know when it would be done
<snap-l> she says "That's OK, the day after is our backup day for this presentation"
<snap-l> So my informal knowlede share is so fucking important that I need to make sure that I'm down there, regardless of whether I have a car or not
<snap-l> And of course my "informal" knowledge share requires slides.
<Wolfger> did you let her know that "I don't know when" mean "I don't know how many days" and not "I don't know what time today"?
<snap-l> (which I should send in advance)
<snap-l> Well, what's great is she's also (I'm sure) invited half the damn company
<snap-l> most of which know what I do on an intimate basis.
<Wolfger> and they need your knowledge share why?
<snap-l> Fuck if I know
<snap-l> I think it's to show that I exist or something.
<snap-l> I have no fucking idea why if this is so important it couldn't be done via a telecommunications bridge
<snap-l> since that seems to be one of the things that we sell (go figure)
<Wolfger> Maybe they want to pin a medal on you. :-D
<snap-l> I'm about to tell them where they can pin said medal
<snap-l> http://openmetalcast.com/2011/07/26/open-metalcast-episode-26-last-train-to-crazyville/
<brousch> how're the wife and car?
<snap-l> Wife is fine. Car is in the shop awaiting estimates and what-not
<brousch> good good
<greg-g> raise your hand if you feel like crap this morning
<greg-g> o/
<brousch> a little tired. boy woke us up at 5:30 today
<rick_h_> greg-g: with you there, but my bike is done so today is good stuff yay!
<rick_h_> greg-g: so the wife is curious if you guys are taking your 6mo old with you hiking in the woods?
 * rick_h_ got the invite card yesterday
<greg-g> rick_h_: for our 1 year anniversary/reception thingy? Something like that :)
<rick_h_> lol, ok
<greg-g> rick_h_: so, confirmed with wife: yet to be determined
<greg-g> (btw, saying "wife" to refer to Carrie is crazy)
<rick_h_> yea, you get used to it :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: ok, it was funny. We keep saying we want to take michael, but at 18mo we're still holding out a ways
<snap-l> I just refer to JoDee as "Her Royal Highness"
<snap-l> (Actually, that's what we refer to JoDee's younger sister as: HRH)
<greg-g> hah
<greg-g> i think we should use that for my sis
<snap-l> Composing in my head the "I'm quite offended by your statement that I could just do my presentation the next day" mail to my boss.
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> that sounds rather annoying.
 * ColonelPanic001 comes to the rescue to point out the obvious
<brousch> oooooo, my first home delivery of fresh, organic veg will arrive this afternoon
<rick_h_> brousch: awesome
<brousch> http://www.doorganicsgr.com/local-bin-weekly-update
<brousch> hm, i don't even know what chard and fennel are
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> chard is like large lettuce
<rick_h_> fennel is another leafy thing, more fine
<brousch> cool, i can use fennel to make absinthe
<Wolfger> brousch: fennel seeds often appear as a spice, and are used in many italian sausages.
<ColonelPanic001> chard sounds like an insult
<ColonelPanic001> "you stupid chard"
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001++
<ColonelPanic001> You're upvoting me? What a chard.
<Wolfger> Fennel you
<ColonelPanic001> :\
<jcastro> rick_h_: lol, I ordered 4 of those arms and an Aeron
<rick_h_> wow nice
<rick_h_> hope they work out for you
<greg-g> brousch: yay fresh veg (and I love that you say veg, it sounds British to me)
<greg-g> also chard is great, saute that stuff with olive oil and mmmmmm, good
<jjesse> 1morning
<_stink_> "chard" just sounds too much like "shart".
<gamerchick02> ha, _stink_
<gamerchick02> pinging greg-g; did you want me to send the list of events to the ubuntu-mi list or to you?
<brousch> so use chard like spinach?
<jjesse> yes
<_stink_> go easy on the fennel until you're sure you like it.
<brousch> i like anise
<brousch> wife does not
<jjesse> i think we are growing chard this year in our garden
<_stink_> jjesse has his garden spring up magically.
<brousch> jjesse: i signed up for this http://www.doorganicsgr.com/local-bin-weekly-update
<jjesse> not really this maybe the 1st year we actually don't kill all the plants
<_stink_> hehe
<jjesse> brousch cool do you like it?
<_stink_> i've got big plans for a veggie garden next year.
<brousch> i don't know. first delivery is today
<jjesse> i was supposed to plow over the weeds in the back area of the yard but never go t to it for the garden
<jjesse> so this year everything is in pots
<brousch> my wife has 8 pots of tomatoes in the front yard, 1 of cucumbers, 1 of jalapenos
<gamerchick02> wow, brousch.
<gamerchick02> that's a lot of tomatoes
<gamerchick02> we only have 3 plants this year.
<brousch> yeah, i don't even like them!
<gamerchick02> i like the home-grown ones
<brousch> i'll eat romas as long as they are cut up tiny
<gamerchick02> grill them with salt and pepper and put melted mozz cheese on them. effing divine.
<gamerchick02> especially  the heirloom ones.
<_stink_> i think there's some law that anyone who grows anything must grow tomatoes
<_stink_> but i intend to ignore that law at great risk
<gamerchick02> and cucumbers or zucchini
<brousch> well my wife grows them because they're only thing she doesn't kill
<gamerchick02> lol, brousch
<gamerchick02> we do peppers a lot
<gamerchick02> they're easy.
<_stink_> i can get behind peppers, yeah
<_stink_> but god zucchini no way
<_stink_> and let me say that i have tried to prepare zucchini 100 different ways
<_stink_> and they are all terrible
<gamerchick02> is greg-g around? i've got his list from the last meeting (yeah, finally got around to it, i'm horrible)
<gamerchick02> i like cucumbers. cut up with salt and pepper = happy me
<_stink_> yeah cucumbers++
<gamerchick02> i can eat a whole one for a snack.
<gamerchick02> hah
<gamerchick02> or lunch.
<brousch> zuchinni get chopped and grilled in a basket with squash
<brousch> olive oil, salt, pepper
<jjesse> mmmm
<_stink_> i would eat the squash and throw the zucchini out the window angrily like a child.
<Wolfger> OK, it's Python learning time
<Wolfger> why would "import wx" be failing inside a script when it succeeds from the Python prompt
<Wolfger> ?
<rick_h_> Wolfger: because the script has a diff python path?
<rick_h_> check the #!
<Wolfger> I thought the #! was not needed on Windows system
<rick_h_> oh, well hell if it's windows then I know nothing
<Wolfger> :-p
<Wolfger> Traceback (most recent call last):
<Wolfger>   File "wx.py", line 1, in <module>
<Wolfger>     import wx
<Wolfger>   File "C:\Documents and Settings\t9511mf\MyRealDocuments\pystuff\wx.py", line 2
<Wolfger> , in <module>
<Wolfger>     app = wx.App()
<Wolfger> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'App'
<rick_h_> ouch, pastebin pls
<Wolfger> ugh. Sorry. Did not realize it would come out as many lines :-p
<rick_h_> lol, did you name your file wx?
<Wolfger> yes
<Wolfger> uh
<Wolfger> oh
<rick_h_> don't steal the name of the package you're using
<Wolfger> LOL
<rick_h_> get creative and make up your own :)
<Wolfger> still getting same error, but yeah I should not have named it that :-)
<rick_h_> rm the .pyc file if it's there
<snap-l> O'reilly Deal of the Day is on Java books
<snap-l> 50% off
<brousch> you may have to do some path crap in windows
<snap-l> Wolfger: Time to update that library of yours.
<rick_h_> yea, lots of path crap, like getting a unix path
<brousch> add various things to your system path
<snap-l> Windows paths are far worse than UNIX paths, IMHO
<Wolfger> Does anybody feel otherwise?
<brousch> i know you have to add the python path
<Wolfger> python path is there and working. I've run other python scripts
<Wolfger> wxPython is a new install, and I'm failing on that import it seems
<Wolfger> but only from the script
<Wolfger> funkiness
<Wolfger> I removed everything from the script except for the import statement on line 1, and the error is still complaining about line 2
<Wolfger> line 2 no longer exists
<snap-l> Wolfger: If it's any consolation, I had a hell of a time trying to get wxpython working under Windows
<snap-l> There's some scripts in there that I believe set up the correct paths
<snap-l> Unfortunately I didn't pursue it much further
<brousch> Wolfger: reboot ;)
<gamerchick02> that's the official fix for anything windows, right? :-P
<snap-l> "I can't move the mouse because someone glued it to the desk" - Reboot.
<brousch> well when the path changes on windows, you have to reboot to make it active
<gamerchick02> snap-l it's always amusing when I shut my mouse off.
<gamerchick02> i'll jiggle it and wait and it won't move anything. then i check to see if the dongle thingy is plugged in. THEN i check to see if it's on.
<jrwren> pygtk > wx
<snap-l> jrwren: How do you figure?
<jrwren> i'm just stirring the pot
<brousch> now that pygtk has an all-in-one windows installer, it's much less painful
<Wolfger> durr....
<Wolfger> I renamed my script by way of "save as", which means..... the wx.py I previously created was still there and interfering with my import
<Wolfger> PEBKAC all the way
<brousch> n00b
<brousch> i was actually going to ask if you did that, but i assumed you were too smart ;)
<Wolfger> :-p
<Wolfger> smart enough to figure it out eventually... just having a "slow" day
<Wolfger> I still can't believe I named my script after the module in the first place.
 * Wolfger is feeling exceptionally lame today
<brousch> luckily your current bout of lameness is offset by the injection of awesome you get from learning python
<Wolfger> Heh
<Wolfger> Wife is heading for Borders today, for 40% off. Told her to check the prices on a couple Python books for me.
<Wolfger> But...
<Wolfger> Amazon is already > 40% off the publisher price of those books
<Wolfger> so may wind up going Amazon again, anyhow.
<Wolfger> jjesse: :-p
<Wolfger> (re: G+)
<brousch> go used if you must go dead tree
<jrwren> but like we said yesterday, make sure you get the latest edition of used.
<jjesse> Wolfger your welcome
<gamerchick02> headed up to Bay City. See everyone when I get back! :)
<snap-l> I think it's not 40% yet
<snap-l> only "up to 40%"
<snap-l> which means the magazines are 40%, and the rest of the store is between 10%-20%
<brousch> Wolfger: i have 1 or 2 wxpython books if you're interested
<Wolfger> brousch: maybe... I'm not sold on wx yet, just experimenting.
<Wolfger> got to say it looks promising so far, though
<brousch> it's been arund a long time and is actively kept up to date
<snap-l> Yeah, it's a nice toolkit
<jrwren> what is wx layout like v. gtk?  more HBox VBox stuff?
<brousch> jrwren: http://wiki.wxpython.org/UsingSizers
<brousch> pretty much
<jrwren> wtf is this? http://xpt.sourceforge.net/
<rick_h_> jrwren: it's called a website
<rick_h_> people post info to them on occassion
<rick_h_> usually not useful, but occassionally so
<jrwren> its just a strange site for sourceforge. what is the project there?
<rick_h_> some guy getting free hosting
<snap-l> Looks like the project is Unix Power Tools
<snap-l> https://sourceforge.net/projects/xpt/develop
<rick_h_> ah, the book?
<snap-l> Not sure
<greg-g> gamerchick02: hi!
<greg-g> oh, you're gone :/
<greg-g> hmm, gamerchick02 didn't leave her list anywhere, did she? (/me doesn't see an email or PM)
<snap-l> I've just released the 0.2 version of FAPWS2 (Fast Asynchronous Python WebServer) which is WSGI compliant.
<snap-l> Sorry, was FAPPNG taken? Fast Asynchronous Python Pusher Next Generation?
<rick_h_> meh, sounds already out of date
<rick_h_> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/fapws3/0.9.dev
<greg-g> snap-l: we love you and are here to help. (re: your latest dent)
<Wolfger> dent?
<greg-g> Wolfger: identi.ca notice
<greg-g> https://identi.ca/notice/79740938
<_stink_> snap-l: just to clarify, since greg-g said 'we': I love you, but I'm not *in love* with you.
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> http://www.erasmatazz.com/TheLibrary/GameDesign/DesignDiaryBotP/July22/July22.html
<snap-l> Thank you. :)
<Wolfger> greg-g: Ah, yes. I forgot Identica tweets were called dents. I was going to say, "The way I heard it, the side of the car isn't there anymore... That's more than a dent."
<gamerchick02> greg-g, i left around 11:30 for lunch, just got back
<brousch> snap-l: And I love you slightly less than _stink_ so I can be sure there's someone more willing than I to give you a hug
<gamerchick02> i have my list written down the old fashioned way.
<brousch> snap-l: who all is going to pyohio from the east side, besides you and rick_h_?
<rick_h_> brousch: just us that I know of
<brousch> 100 awesome python devs over there and only 2 of you are going?
<brousch> i suppose some are lured by the makerfaire
<rick_h_> yea, some
<rick_h_> but really not a ton of python devs over here that I know of
<rick_h_> py-curious
<Wolfger> <groan>
<brousch> that is my new favorite word
<brousch> i have met a lot of py-curious people
<rick_h_> same here
<_stink_> i'd love to go, but i suck at commiting to a trip
<_stink_> work is talking about sending me to San Fran
<rick_h_> suck
<rick_h_> ah, fun there
<_stink_> and i tell them 'eh, maybe.'
<greg-g> gamerchick02: ahh, could you type it up in an email, perchance? greg@grossmeier.net
<gamerchick02> yeah, no problems. i didn't have your email somehow. whoops.
<greg-g> no worries :)
<gamerchick02> i only went back to the beginning of the year.
<gamerchick02> is that ok?
<greg-g> gamerchick02: yeah, that's ok
<gamerchick02> cool
<Wolfger> rick_h_: Sounds like a Penguicon panel... Stop Being Py-curious and Just Go Py!
<Dekkard> Yardage yadda
<gamerchick02> just did the ballsiest thing ever.
<gamerchick02> contacted the HR person DIRECT at Nexteer
<Dekkard> Yeah...
<Dekkard> And..
<gamerchick02> normally i don't have this type of confidence, but i usually fail at everything so i have nothing to lose
<gamerchick02> they'll probably ignore me.
<Dekkard> What happened?
<gamerchick02> when ya got nothing, it don't fucking matter no more
<gamerchick02> i just sent the email
<gamerchick02> it'll prolly be round-binned
<gamerchick02> i mean, i applied for this position fucking two fucking years ago
<gamerchick02> TWO YEARS
<gamerchick02> it's still open and i hear nothing
<Dekkard> Yea but nothing ventured
<gamerchick02> it's what i was doing when i was a prostitute and they were my John
<Dekkard> Haaaaha
<gamerchick02> ie, contractor
<gamerchick02> it's exactly like being a prostitute. sorry.
<Dekkard> S'okay
<Dekkard> Last place o
<gamerchick02> except i'm not dealing with pregnancy, potential disease and having objects shoved up my arse
<Dekkard> Iowa's at they had tons of h1b people
<gamerchick02> oh yeah, i know
<gamerchick02> they hire fucking h1b's instead of real engineers
<gamerchick02> that's how i got fucked out of my last opportunity
<gamerchick02> they went with a goddamned foreigner.
<Dekkard> Yes USA..this is rank
<ptenhoopen> gamerchick02:  Too bad you didn't have a contact to the hiring manager to bypass HR.
<gamerchick02> hah. i'm not THAT good
<ptenhoopen> HR usually holds things up
<Dekkard> Ducking auto correct
<gamerchick02> i'm not fucking anyone over at nexteer so i prolly won't get in
<Dekkard> Hehe
<gamerchick02> now, i wouldn't mind fucking someone over there. not hard. i'd do anything to get a job at this point, including the objects in my arse thing.
<Dekkard> What. City you in?
<gamerchick02> i mean, it's angering when you're fucking perfect for a job, you go through their goddamned hoops, and they don't call you back
<gamerchick02> the Nasty (aka Saginaw)
<gamerchick02> there's no jobs here unless you're medical and willing to work with sick people, or are fucking someone at Nexteer
<Dekkard> OK.
<gamerchick02> oh, and retail, but i'd rather suck dicks than do that again
<Dekkard> And the problem is
<gamerchick02> also, willing to relocate
<gamerchick02> can't relocate without job.
<gamerchick02> not willing to relocate without job
<Dekkard> Send a resume to El polk
<rick_h_> ok, now for the record...if that stuff about arse and d@#$ came out of one of our mouths, we'd be creating a hostile irc channel and CoC would come crashing upon us :/
<Dekkard> Rl polk
<gamerchick02> sorry, rick_h_
<gamerchick02> i'm grumpy today
<rick_h_> no, I mean I don't find it offensive and all...understand the frustration. :(
<ColonelPanic001> CoC?
<gamerchick02> code of conduct
<rick_h_> Code of Conduct, that thing we usually ignore :P
<ColonelPanic001> oh
<ColonelPanic001> I'm not a fan of an... nah, never mind. That would be against the CoC, too :)
<jjesse> there is a code of conduct in this channel?
<gamerchick02> well, it's fine, but i feel like i'm with friends here. if i was in bugs or classroom or meeting i wouldn't be so vulgar.
<ColonelPanic001> "try not to kill anyone"
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: naw, I understand. It's me being whiny about how the internets get all aflame for what I wouldn't always get uppity about
<gamerchick02> lol ColonelPanic001
<ColonelPanic001> heh, I don't think anyone's going to come after you ;)
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: you can come be my boss, guess they're looking for a mamanger to free up my manager
<rick_h_> I guess
<rick_h_> /mamager/manager really...honest typo
<gamerchick02> i don't really want to manage. i want to make cool shit.
<ColonelPanic001> artic outhouse technition
<gamerchick02> that's why i got an engineering degree. if i had known it'd be this goddamned hard to get a job, i would have gone with art.
<ColonelPanic001> then come fix my typing
<gamerchick02> at least i could get a job in a design house
<ColonelPanic001> the artists I know also don't have a job, they just don't expect to
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<brousch> rick_h_: did you just CoC-slap gamerchick02?
<ColonelPanic001> bahaha
<gamerchick02> LOL, brousch
<ColonelPanic001> someone please print that and frame it
<ColonelPanic001> that took me a second
<gamerchick02> i got it right away.
<gamerchick02> i'm horrible.
<ColonelPanic001> no comment'
<gamerchick02> i'm going to hell for that
<brousch> oh man, be rick_h_'s boss. that's gotta be tough
<gamerchick02> rick_h_ what are the qualifications for this manager? i'd probably be horrible at it, but eh, whatever...
<ColonelPanic001> "Rick, we've been getting complaints across town that they can hear your keyboard..."
<gamerchick02> LOL, colonelpanic001
<ColonelPanic001> "RICK PUT DOWN THE KNIFE"
<brousch> rick, you're far too efficient and making everyone else look bad. from now on you must use visual studio and type with only 6 fingers
<ColonelPanic001> on a $10 kmart keyboard
<ColonelPanic001> rick hasn't written code in 4 years. He just has vim macros recorded that do it for him
<gamerchick02> you guys know how to make me smile, that's for sure.
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
<gamerchick02> "ubuntu-us-mi, come for gamerchick02's rants, stay for the lulz"
<brousch> gamerchick02: what kind of engineer are you?
<gamerchick02> mechanical/product/plastics
<brousch> gentex is hiring over on the more pleasant side of the state
<gamerchick02> i'm willing to get dirty (actually dirty, please disregard my earlier bits about sexual innuendo)
<gamerchick02> gentex? pay well?
<brousch> i haven't a clue
<gamerchick02> it's only 3 hours away from sag. i need to be in about that radius til march 2013 (i want to fulfil my JPQ year in NIle)
<brousch> your what in who?
<gamerchick02> Jr. Past Queen. Nile's line is 5 years
<gamerchick02> i'm Queen now
<gamerchick02> http://daughtersofthenile.com
<brousch> ping mattmichielsen
<ColonelPanic001> gamerchick02 is Egyptian Royalty
<brousch> gamerchick02: aparently grand rapids has a nile temple
<gamerchick02> they did. they closed before we went to Indianapolis last year.
<gamerchick02> colonelpanic001: not really; it's a lot of work.
<brousch> hm, it's still on the web site
<ColonelPanic001> nothing worth doing requires work.
<gamerchick02> yeah, the website team isn't exactly speedy. :-/
<rick_h_> ugh, this manager thing sounds like a mess. Guess my boss is actually a VP and they want him to start VP'ing more
<gamerchick02> how do you VP more?
<brousch> by doing less real work
<brousch> and by knowing less about what your peons are doing
<ColonelPanic001> SIGN ME UP
<gamerchick02> damn
<brousch> rick_h_: snap-l should apply to be your boss. imagine how much less stress you'd have
<brousch> JUST DO WHAT RICK SAYS
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<gamerchick02> LOL
<gamerchick02> i assume you need to know something to be a boss. i know nothing of what rick_h_ does, so i wouldn't be able to manage him
<ColonelPanic001> that's only if you want to be effective
<gamerchick02> yes i want to be effective
<ColonelPanic001> there's no reason to stand out like that
<jrwren> recall the "TEST ALL THE FUCKING TIME" presentation?  rick_h_ does one called "PYTHON ALL THE FUCKING TIME"
<jrwren> http://confreaks.net/videos/496-rubyhoedown2008-lightning-talk-tatft-test-all-the-f-in-time?player=html5
<Dekkard> I'm a boss
<gamerchick02> you're a boss, Dekkard? what do you boss around?
<Dekkard> I dontknow much
<Dekkard> Monkees in a kitchen
<Dekkard> Bbl
<gamerchick02> i was gonna say, if you need to boss an mechanical engineer around, i'll be bossed around for pay.
<gamerchick02> ok
<rick_h_> jrwren: hah, love it
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: I don't know how you 'VP' more
<rick_h_> I'm going to have nightmares now of someone wanting to come and be my boss that doesn't know crap :/
<gamerchick02> i know stuff, just not the stuff i need to know to be your boss.
<rick_h_> heh, I'm not sure what that is either lol
<rick_h_> http://momjian.us/main/blogs/pgblog/2011.html#July_26_2011
<rick_h_> lol
<Blazeix> gamerchick02: that doesn't stop snap-l's new boss
<gamerchick02> wow.
<gamerchick02> so is he a pointy-haired one?
<rick_h_> *sigh* someone send me here pls: http://py.codeconf.com/
<rick_h_> jcastro: how far are you from miami?
<binbrain> rick_h_: $500 for a 2 dayer, I think they're trying to keep out the riff raff
<rick_h_> binbrain: yea, I know
<rick_h_> which makes me want to go more!
<Blazeix> rick_h_ is falling to what we call the "apple effect"
<rick_h_> but but but...
<rick_h_> all the cool kids are going to be there
<rick_h_> man, $500 for the conference, $180/night for the hotel
<rick_h_> costing more than pycon at this point
<brousch> mitsuhiko 2:29pm via Twitter for Mac: I will be at @PyCodeConf. Some speakers were just announced:http://t.co/x28oIvL
<Milyardo> $500? What are they giving you that cost $500?
<Milyardo> Will there be python powered robot death matches or something?
<rick_h_> one can only hope!
<rick_h_> snap-l: waldo323_ is mug a 501c3?
<rick_h_> I know they were checking into it at one point
<waldo323_> not at this point
<Blazeix> last I heard it wasn't
<rick_h_> bah, ok
<Milyardo> Pythonmorphism versus The Egg Breaker live @ PyCodeConf!
<Milyardo> sounds awesome
<waldo323_> i haven't read up yet are you checking to see if you're a member of a 501c3?
<rick_h_> waldo323_: is mug a 501c3 non profit ?
<rick_h_> sounds like not likely
<waldo323_> mug isn't 501c3
<rick_h_> well booo, there went that idea
<rick_h_> work is doing a program to encourage people to do some charity work.
<waldo323_> ah, what is linux foundation?
<rick_h_> 8hrs of PTO and $300 for the charity if you can get 3 staff or more to go to an event and take pictures
<waldo323_> ah, what about i3detroit?
<rick_h_> not sure I can get 2 other staff there
<waldo323_> they were closer to getting the 501c3 status than we were
<rick_h_> yea, doesn't look like it. They've got a 'help wanted' for legal service to help setup the 501c3
<rick_h_> http://www.humblebundle.com/#3
<rick_h_> get your game on everyone
<gamerchick02> http://gamerchick02.tumblr.com/post/8093050878/my-top-5-artists-week-ending-2011-7-24 my top artists are beautiful
<snap-l> gamerchick02: My new boss is a she
<snap-l> and she's a micromanaging project manager type
<gamerchick02> no. i do not need more games. >_< YOU ARE NOT HELPING, rick_h_
<gamerchick02> ick, sorry, snap-l
<snap-l> drives me absolutely bat-shut insane
<gamerchick02> bat shut?
<snap-l> Bat Shit
<snap-l> I can't type
<gamerchick02> anyway, i'm sorry about that. not all women are micromanagers
<gamerchick02> i'm afraid i would be one; that's why i never want to manage other
<gamerchick02> others, rather
<snap-l> Oh I know. I've had great bosses, both male and female
<snap-l> and I have had some that I want to kick to the curb
<gamerchick02> yeah, same here
<snap-l> I don't deal well with people who feel it necessary to show that they're doing something
<snap-l> the work speaks for itself.
<gamerchick02> re humble indie bundle, i love the proportion that pays the most.
<gamerchick02> yeah, the work speaks for itself but sometimes some people are happier that they have checkins
<gamerchick02> and it works for me too, because then i get feedback on what exactly they want me to do
<snap-l> Checkins are fine
<gamerchick02> the only thing worse than someone who hovers over your shoulder is someone who's vague as hell about what they want.
<ColonelPanic001> now that I think of it, I don't know that I've ever had a female supervisor since I worked retail
<ColonelPanic001> I guess I haven't, really
<gamerchick02> i had a female supervisor at Dow Auto. she didn't want me to go into engineering, just stay as a tech
<gamerchick02> one of the reasons i'm fucked now
<snap-l> The thing that's driving me the most nuts is I'm supposed to be doing a knowledge transfer next week in IL
<ColonelPanic001> mind meld?
<gamerchick02> but also, i didn't have the (proverbial) balls to tell her to fuck off and to let me do what i want.
<gamerchick02> proverbially.
<snap-l> Which would be fine and good, save for a) some people already know what I know, and b) she's invited half the fucking company, who couldn't care less.
<gamerchick02> ick
<gamerchick02> that's annoying when there are too many people involved.
<snap-l> It's informal, but she wants slides
<snap-l> I'm half tempted to let my sarcastic side go nuts, but I really can't be fucked to care.
<ColonelPanic001> make one slide, just with  your name
<snap-l> Or several slides that just happen to be my resume.
<ColonelPanic001> yes
<ColonelPanic001> ending with "please help"
<ColonelPanic001> "feel free to email this slideshow around"
<gamerchick02> lol
<jjesse> some lady named julie jesse just forwarded her work travel information from her work account to her personal gmail account, except she had my email address
<jjesse> so now i know exactly where she is traveling etc
<rick_h_> oops
<rick_h_> stalker enabling isn't good
<gamerchick02> oh, my god, is this ever good.
<gamerchick02> Woodchuck's 802
<jjesse> including the hotel she's staying
<jjesse> now i can really stalk her
<gamerchick02> oooh.
<gamerchick02> i've sent replies to people who've sent me private information... "I think you have the wrong email address."
<gamerchick02> sometimes I get embarrassed replies
<ColonelPanic001> gamerchick02: Woodchuck's 802?
<gamerchick02> yes. hard cider
<gamerchick02> got it in a variety pack at meijer. good stuff
<ColonelPanic001> I've had their "regular" and Granny Smith, never heard of 802
<gamerchick02> it's in the variety box. sooooooooooo good
<gamerchick02> irony is when you go out but the places you went aren't on foursquare.
<gamerchick02> oh, i'm gamerchick02 on foursquare if anyone wants to play the location game with me.
<gamerchick02> have you guys seen The Brads today? http://bradcolbow.com/archive/view/the_brads_this_is_why_your_newspaper_is_dying/#When:09:36:49Z
<gamerchick02> +1 to all of that.
<ColonelPanic001> >_>
<ColonelPanic001> never heard of the brads
<gamerchick02> it's a webcomic
<gamerchick02> i thought i found it in here.
<gamerchick02> maybe snap-l sent it. i can't remember
<brousch> web comic? probably snap-l
<gamerchick02> probably
<gamerchick02> it was when the drm one came out, i thik
<snap-l> I love how a large company can have so much useless documentation.
<gamerchick02> most large companies have useless docs
<ColonelPanic001> I seem to have the opposite problem, often.
<snap-l> Too many good docs?
<gamerchick02> not enough documentation?
<Milyardo> Useless as in its relevence has been lost, or useless as in its never been relevent to begin with?
<snap-l> Useless as in the install instructions assume you have a copy of it already.
<gamerchick02> what?
<gamerchick02> that's dumb
<snap-l> Yep
<gamerchick02> but then again, i'm a dumb mechanical engineer, what do i know?
<snap-l> I think I'm going to just mine bitcoins
<gamerchick02> maybe i should do that for income.
<Milyardo> "You should contact your System Administrator concerning the installation of this application." I am the SysAdmin! D: What do?
<gamerchick02> LOL
<gamerchick02> contact God. he would know.
<gamerchick02> god is your sysadmin? :-P
<snap-l> Yeah, I love it when Windows says that.
<brousch> Milyardo: you go get trained on how to install the software for $2000/day
<Milyardo> $2000/day? Why don't I get paid that much for developing said software?
<gamerchick02> because you just develop and aren't a "manager"
<gamerchick02> ie, you DO something.
<Milyardo> So I thought I was demoing an application in development at 2 today. It's 4:40 and I haven't seen another person in the office since 11.
<snap-l> Milyardo: How's the demo going? :)
<Milyardo> It would have been awesome two hours ago, now I busy refactoring stubbed out methods
<Milyardo> should be another hour or so before it even compiles again
<snap-l> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/95920/what-is-each-time-through-a-loop-called <- Headdesk
<Milyardo> snap-l: Sounds like someone trying to get an question answered for his CompSci 100 class?
<snap-l> Yeah, no kiddding
<Milyardo> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/96192/how-to-become-good-at-object-oriented-analysis-and-design-ooad
<Milyardo> 4 questions in 1
<brousch> darnit. i was going to signup to be rick_h_'s pyohio session chair, but someone else has it already
<binbrain> I'm confused, all of a sudden my Android has tethering, and it works like a dream
<binbrain> I'm trying to figure out when this happened, but everything I see says that its blocked by most carriers and cost extra
<brousch> they'll just charge you what they want. don't worry about it
<binbrain> I live in NYC, I basically do that for everything now
<gamerchick02> maybe it's not blocked by your carrier, binbrain
<mattmichielsen> gamerchick02: yes, Gentex is hiring, pay is on par with a lot of others on this side of the state
<gamerchick02> k
<mattmichielsen> all kinds of different engineering positions
<gamerchick02> i've already applied to a bunch of their positions
<gamerchick02> never got callbacks
<mattmichielsen> how long ago?
<gamerchick02> it's just nobody ever calls or emails me back
<gamerchick02> dunno
<mattmichielsen> we just doubled our HR department, mostly new recruiters
<mattmichielsen> growing like crazy
<brousch> hey, mattmichielsen woke up!
<gamerchick02> wow. HR. ok.
<mattmichielsen> finally logged into my server with screen/irssi
<brousch> hehe
 * gamerchick02 doesn't put much stock in HR, sorry. i've been screwed by them.
<brousch> i'm finding more recruits for you
<mattmichielsen> i haven't set up a firewall rule to get to this box from the outside world yet since i started using linux as a router
<mattmichielsen> a lot of the new HR guys are pretty cool, some of them worked with me in production support
<brousch> i assume you're hiring HR guys because you're more actual workers
<mattmichielsen> right
<mattmichielsen> https://tbe.taleo.net/NA4/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=GENTEX&cws=1&rid=8
<mattmichielsen> That's pretty much where most people start these days
<mattmichielsen> i started in this position way back in 2001 or so: https://tbe.taleo.net/NA4/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=GENTEX&cws=1&rid=645
<gamerchick02> i don't program. it's not a strength of mine. never has been
<gamerchick02> probably never will be.
<mattmichielsen> that's cool, the first one i posted is definitely worth checking out
<mattmichielsen> if you want a for-sure callback, pm me your name
<mattmichielsen> if you've applied for anything before, you'll be in HRs system
<gamerchick02> first one requires a CS degree. I'm a ME
<mattmichielsen> most people we hire for that job are MEs
<gamerchick02> i took pascal and got nothing out of it. then they dropped all programming form the ME degree after i suffered through that torturous class.
<gamerchick02> from rather
<gamerchick02> ok
<mattmichielsen> the Production Support Engineer job is not programming-related
<mattmichielsen> it's our entry-level engineering spot
<mattmichielsen> people move from there to more technical stuff or into management
<gamerchick02> will i be doing mechanical engineering stuff related to parts or plastics design? i'm NOT an HVAC engineer (if i was i'd have a job but i'd cry every night because it's so damn boring)
<gamerchick02> nor am i qualified to be an HVAC engineer (the thermo branch of stuff is not my strong suit)
<gamerchick02> i've applied for it.
<mattmichielsen> it's more production support, but most people who want to do ME type stuff move into process engineering in 6 months to a year
<gamerchick02> i'm more into product stuff, but i guess beggars can't be choosers.
<mattmichielsen> usually people move into product stuff after a couple years of process engineering
<gamerchick02> ah. paying dues thing. i get it.
<rick_h_> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/state_web_summer
<gamerchick02> i was a slave when i was in school, i know the drill. ;) (kettering university broke me)
<rick_h_> <3 the MS + facebook bit
<gamerchick02> so do i. saw that, it was awesome.
<rick_h_> lol http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/j0lw1/has_anyone_reverse_engineered_the_add_to_circles/
<rick_h_> Blazeix: you have that done right? ^^
<snap-l> Pfft
<gamerchick02> i've got another person interested in Ubuntu...
 * gamerchick02 does a happydance
<jjesse> yay?
<gamerchick02> yeah.
<gamerchick02> very yay :)
<rick_h_> ok, ordered 4 new usb sticks for putting tutorial files on before the talk
<rick_h_> that should be enough right?
<snap-l> Y'know, my Dad was talking about having Ubuntu on his new laptop
<snap-l> he really likes it.
<snap-l> rick_h_: LMK if you need some more USB keys
<snap-l> I have a few if you need them
<rick_h_> snap-l: ok, cool
<rick_h_> I just planne don getting some small cheap ones, nothing I don't mind walking away kind of thing
<gamerchick02> snap-l, that's cool
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-27
<gamerchick02> NCIS time. see everyone later.
<jcastro> snap-l: greg-g: rick_h_
<jcastro> remember that guy at the global jam
<jcastro> with his broken wireless?
<jcastro> I mention the whole story on this podcast: http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/ 52 minutes in!
<snap-l> Heh. :)
<snap-l> Downloading it
<greg-g> yay, new phone and memory card should arrive tomorrow! :)
<brousch> yey?
<snap-l> W00t
<rick_h_> greg-g: what did you end up with?
<jjesse> everyone having a good night?
<rick_h_> party
<snap-l> Going well so far
<rick_h_> got the bike running, lock attached
<rick_h_> the boy screamed in his first ride in the trailer
<rick_h_> but hope we can move past that
<jjesse> hopefully
<snap-l> Heh, he's totally not used to it
<rick_h_> he was pretty cranky tonight
<snap-l> Hopefully he'll get better about it
<brousch> can be kind of scary alone back there
<rick_h_> so think it was overall mood vs just the trailer
<brousch> george's first trailer trip he had his cousin with him
<rick_h_> yea, we were thinking of letting him have his bed time buddy, the stuff puppy with him perhaps
<brousch> we also give him books and such for if he gets bored
<rick_h_> cool, thanks for the idea
<greg-g> rick_h_: Virgin Mobile, going with the Optimus V. Great price ($125 for the phone, $35-45/mo for plan) and I'm OK with 3G
<jcastro> Jill has an optimus
<rick_h_> cool
<jcastro> it's awesome
<greg-g> jcastro: good to hear!
<jcastro> this years midrange phone that demolishes last year's superphone
<greg-g> brousch: though, more toys/books the more weight you have to pull! ;)
<greg-g> "sorry, you only get one book or two toys, that's it."
<brousch> last time we took the cover off the trailer. someone had to follow behind to collect the books that got thrown out
<rick_h_> brousch: lol
<snap-l> brousch: heh
<greg-g> We just added this to the baby registry :) http://www.amazon.com/Sherpani-Rumba-Superlight-Baby-Carrier/dp/B0045UAN6M/ref=sr_1_2?s=baby-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1311729821&sr=1-2
<greg-g> rick_h_: ^^ thought you'd like that
<brousch> holy crap
<brousch> that's ginormous
<snap-l> What the fuck is that?
<snap-l> Looks like a tree hut with straps
<brousch> portable yurt
<rick_h_> greg-g: lol, I hope you get that
<rick_h_> lovely, morning news line to make you cringe
<rick_h_> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14289981
<rick_h_> the Mozilla developers aim to get applications running without the need for the browser, effectively creating a web-centred operating system.
<rick_h_> isn't it just booting to a browser? per chrome? cause you kind of need that for a 'web centered' OS
<snap-l> I pointed that out yesterday. ;)
<snap-l> Thought it would have given you more pause
<rick_h_> ah, sorry. Was busy yesterday and only followed the channel a bit lightly
<snap-l> Actually, this is a different take on it
<rick_h_> snap-l: you going to be able to make CHC?
<rick_h_> need a lift?
<snap-l> Same info
<snap-l> Yeah, I'm borrowing my parents car in the interim
<rick_h_> ok cool
<snap-l> haven't heard a peep on my car yet, though
<snap-l> Thanks for the offer, though
<rick_h_> np
<snap-l> brb, reboot.
<snap-l> Who the hell names their project for cropping PDF files "Briss"?
<brousch> hehe
<brousch> just taking a little off the end is all
<rick_h_> lol, works for me
<brousch> rick_h_: stop putting special words and tags in your CHC announcements. it makes it hard for me to copy, paste, and modify for grmi social :P
<rick_h_> brousch: :P
<snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1039/detail/
<brousch> snap-l: http://www.fastcodesign.com/1664576/infographic-of-the-day-the-periodic-table-of-heavy-metals
<snap-l> Nice.
<snap-l> There's a typo on King's X, though .They have it as Kings K
<snap-l> Also they need to break out Meshuggah. It's not avante-garde anymore, it's djent.
<snap-l> They're an element all to themselves. ;)
<snap-l> I don't tend to agree with their classifications on bands like Pantera and Sepultura. They're not "Alternative Metal"
<snap-l> Bah, no, cannot get into a metal timesink this early in the morning.
<rick_h_> lol, walk away...walk away
<brousch> hm, interesting behavior in ubuntu 10.04
<brousch> when i double click the title bar of a window it maximizes the window and then the title bare disappears
<brousch> taking the close/min/max buttons with it
<brousch> i can double-click just below the top panel to get it back
<rick_h_> that's what you wanted, just admit it
<brousch> it's not so bad now that i understand it
<brousch> but for a long time i've been wondering where the heck my title bars were disappearing to
<snap-l> I've never seen that in 10.04
<brousch> i don't remember it either
<snap-l> Also, I generally change the double-click to maximize to minimize instead.
<snap-l> I rarely want things maximized on my screen
<brousch> i tend to use 1 workspace per window for many things
<snap-l> Some days I'll use one workspace per task
<rick_h_> snap-l: greg-g brousch and others, any idea for a good sample data that's open I could use for sqlalchemy tutorial?
<rick_h_> I was going to do student/class/grade kind of thing, but ugh generating too much crap by hand
<snap-l> http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2011/02/01/sample-datasets-for-benchmarking-and-testing/ ?
<snap-l> Or you could use Musicbrainz database
<brousch> you must make your own highly-humorous dataset
<snap-l> http://musicbrainz.org/doc/MusicBrainz_Database
<rick_h_> thanks snap-l might find something there
<rick_h_> well I also kind of like the idea of making the demo someone's existing database if only to prove how you can strap SA onto an existing app/data
<snap-l> I did not know that Bob Young of Red Hat fame is the CEO and founder of Lulu
<snap-l> That is awesome.
<snap-l> http://opensource.com/business/11/7/bob-young-founder-red-hat-and-lulu-collaboration-innovation-and-standing-shoulders-gia?sc_cid=70160000000IDmjAAG
<brousch> rick_h_: or make greg-g happy with some of these open datasets http://ckan.net/
<rick_h_> brousch: heh, yea but I want sql
<snap-l> Man, I am too clever by half
<snap-l> Couldn't find my corp credit card
<snap-l> Partially because it wasn't under the AmEx folder, it was under the Credit Cards folder.
<snap-l> <- dumbass
<snap-l> NullPointerException: Java's way of giving you a little hug to tell you it loves you.
<rick_h_> wheee, love tons of vim editing to get data to load
<rick_h_> thank you vim marks
<snap-l> Vim is awesome for data editing
<rick_h_> turning mysql dumps into useful sqlite imports for decades :)
<snap-l> There should be a Python script for that. ;)
<rick_h_> probably
<snap-l> Also, I'm finding that I'm not liking Perl as much as I used to.
<snap-l> Don't tell rick_h_
<rick_h_> hah! my job is done
<rick_h_> oh crap, still no tiling WM
<rick_h_> I must press on!
<snap-l> I'll go mac before going tiling WM. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, I hear that's what all the cool kids are loving these days lol
<rick_h_> <3 seeing people fighting Lion so hard
<snap-l> Well, what's funny is every change I'm seeing in Lion I'm seeing in Unity
<rick_h_> the changing of mouse gestures?
<rick_h_> people are railing against the launchpad ui
<rick_h_> the removal of 'spaces'
<rick_h_> I don't know unity is doing that, it still shows the workspaces inthe expose-ish view I thought
<snap-l> Meh, I mean some of the more cosmetic changes
<snap-l> I'm not sure about the Launchpad UI. Haven't seen it in person
<snap-l> And spaces didn't get removed, did they?
<rick_h_> yea
<snap-l> I thought they only made it so there was only 4 spaces.
<rick_h_> my understanding is that spaces is now LP
<rick_h_> the keyboard key is switched
<rick_h_> it took over the shortcut, etc
<snap-l> Nice.
<snap-l> I need to play with Lion some time at the Apple store
<snap-l> Y'know, when it's not full of people who are busily dicking with the iPads and iPhones.
<rick_h_> why not, if they're doing that then you can play with the air/laptops
<snap-l> because their big butts will be covering the laptops.
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> I love reorgs, because it gives you a chance to see what you should have been doing all along. ;)
<rick_h_> lol, uh oh
<rick_h_> reorgs == work reorg
<snap-l> Software, Services and Solutions. Yep.
<rick_h_> or do you mean some sort of todo.sh reorg?
<snap-l> No, I mean work re-org
<rick_h_> isn't this like the 3rd work reorg since you've been there?
<snap-l> Second, I believe
<rick_h_> ah, my bad
<snap-l> No worries
<snap-l> It's not like I can keep them straight either.
<snap-l> All I hear is the rumbling of the thtunder of the gods.
<snap-l> and I look up and wonder just what is happening on Mt. Olympus.
<brousch> anybody used DJVU?
<_stink_> a virtual gentleman's club?
<ColonelPanic001> I'm in
<ColonelPanic001> but don't talk about strippers, _stink_. Rick will CoC slap you.
<brousch> http://djvu.org/
<_stink_> rick_h_ is the enforcer?
<brousch> open alternative to pdf
<greg-g> rick_h_: you good on your dataset? if not, what kind of data do you want?
<rick_h_> greg-g: I'm good I think
<rick_h_> I got the movies example from snap-l's link owrking so far
<rick_h_> people better appreicate this lol, this is tedious
<brousch> we're getting these ginormous PDFs lately that kill our old CPUs when we try to view or print. i've been batch converting them to jpg on the server when it happens, but djvu seems to be more friendly
<jrwren> rick_h_: the thing I thought that was funny about the mozilla android based "OS" like chrome"OS" is that the article I read said something ilke "mozilla chose android instead of linux"
<jrwren> and last time I checked, android was linux.
<jrwren> I think they meant not an X11 GUI, but an android gui.
<rick_h_> jrwren: yea, well it's java on top of linux
<jrwren> but they said "linux".  *sigh* so dumb.
<rick_h_> yea, basically sounds like linux->android hardware core->gecko browser
<rick_h_> I don't think it's the android gui layer, it's a layer above that
<rick_h_> err below that
<rick_h_> the core services, hardware apis/etc
<jrwren> but even still, its linux kernel.
<jrwren> but I risk sounding like stallman and saying "GNU LINUX" :)
<jrwren> i don't know what android or chromeos for that matter uses for its graphics stack. I'd be surprised if android uses X11, but it might.
<brousch> it does not
<jrwren> does chromeos?
<brousch> let me see if i can find the article
<jrwren> i dont' trust articles, i trust source. link me to the android source graphics stack :)
<rick_h_> http://developer.android.com/guide/basics/what-is-android.html
<rick_h_> so B2G would probably use the linux underpinnings, the android runtime, core libraries, and probably base libraries
<jrwren> rick_h_: FTW
<rick_h_> and not sure on the app level stuff
<jrwren> i like that mozilla is doing this, because I'm not a fan of dalvik :)
<brousch> here we go http://www.itworld.com/mobile-wireless/179875/are-android-and-linux-same-thing
<rick_h_> I would think they'd be using dalvik as well?
<rick_h_> that's pretty low level for them to yank out
<snap-l> That's like asking if MacOSX is UNIX.
<snap-l> Yes, but there's Cocoa and Aqua acting as a shell above it that does a lot of the user interface piece
<rick_h_> "it's like an onion...layers"
<jrwren> brousch: that is a dumb answer.
<jrwren> MacOSX is UNIX because they licensed the TM.  Unix is just a (tm) :)
<brousch> what's a dumb answer?
<jrwren> Windows could be a UNIX too, since it has a full POSIX layer. They just need to license the (tm)
<jrwren> "There are arguments for each side, naturally. The biggest for Android being Linux is, of course, the fact that the kernel for the Linux operating system and the Android operating system are very nearly one and the same. Not completely the same, mind you, but Android's kernel is directly derived from Linux. "   from teh link you sent
<snap-l> jrwren: Technically, yes. Which was well hashed out in the 1990s when Linux was getting legs.
<jrwren> that is a dumb answer
<snap-l> jrwren: I don't buy that Windows is a UNIX because of POSIX
<jrwren> snap-l: exactly :)
<jrwren> snap-l: of course its not, it doesn't license teh (tm), but it COULD be.
<snap-l> jrwren: Much the same way that a pig with lipstick COULD be a great first date.
<snap-l> Just don't try to get past second base.
<jrwren> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Microsoft_Windows_Services_for_UNIX
<jrwren> they do license the Unix (tm)
<jrwren> how else could they call it "Services for Unix"
<jrwren> so I guess Windows IS a UNIX with the right add on.
<jrwren> ha! that is awesome. Next time some MacOSX nut says "its great cuz its unix" I'm going to tell 'em Windows Is a Unix TOO
<snap-l> jrwren: Microsoft just licened the MKS Toolkit
<jrwren> they bought it.
<jrwren> its not MKS anymore.
<jrwren> hasn't been for 10 yrs.
<jrwren> see the above link
<snap-l> Right, they subsumed it like a good Microsoft. ;)
<jrwren> MKS != Interix
<snap-l> Ah, right. Sorry
<snap-l> Still... blergh. :)
<rick_h_> meh, anyway
<jrwren> double blergh, since its ONLY in Ultimate and Enterprise editions, its extra fail.
<jrwren> it makes me sick just thinking about it, sicne if it was in all editions, then MSYS wouldn't be needed!!!
<snap-l> I wonder how many places seriously use the Microsoft Unix stiff anyway.
<jrwren> just enough that there is demand for MS to keep shipping it.
<snap-l> Seems too much like grafting and related pain to be useful
<snap-l> I guess. Wonder if VMs will take some of that need away.
<jrwren> although sometimes I wonder if Russinivich just thinks its cool and so he says "ship it"
<snap-l> ++
<snap-l> Wow, this update process for the work laptop is really made of suck
<jrwren> from what I've read they like to showcase it as part of their NT kernel. Its a Mach hybrid and win32 is only one of the subsystems in it. the SFU/POSIX layer is another subsystem.
<jrwren> adn I get that. it is really cool that SFU isn't built on win32
<snap-l> NT has a Mach kernel?
<jrwren> mach hybrid, just like Darwin
<jrwren> i should say Mach influenced.
<snap-l> Right
<jrwren> nothing is purely Mach except for toys
<snap-l> I don't give MS enough credit for forward thinking.
<brousch> ok, djvu is impressing me. they have lightweight but useful viewers for lin/win/osx/android. files converted from pdf are actually smaller than the originals. the viewers are much faster than adobe/foxit on the same files
<jrwren> snap-l: what do you mean? you think they are not technically well off?
<snap-l> And they have a format that isn't widely supported.
<snap-l> jrwren: I thought they had more technical debt to work off at the lower levels.
<jrwren> IMO they make technical debt for themselves.
<brousch> snap-l: but i don't really care. i can always print it to pdf if i need to send it somewhere
<jrwren> they make backward compatibility so important that they hurt themselves.
<snap-l> jrwren: Very true
<ptenhoopen> brousch:  Why use djvu?  What's the benefit?
<brousch> ptenhoopen: my current problem is we get huge pdfs that take forever to render and print on our old computers. the processes are CPU-bound, so i can't just toss RAM at it.
<ptenhoopen> OK
<ptenhoopen> So the files are converted to another format?
<brousch> i've been converting to JPG in those cases, but the files end up 10x larger than originals
<jrwren> ya know waht I hate???  2cd sets with only 2 good songs... 1 on each disk.
<jrwren> convert to 2 color bitmap
<jrwren> or png.
<snap-l> jrwren: Yeah, I feel the same way about New Order's Singles. ;)
<jrwren> png would be WAY better since its lossless
<jrwren> ha!  TRUE!  but its New Order, so <3
<jrwren> mm... now I must hear Everything's Gone Green
<snap-l> jrwren: What 2CD set were you referring to?
<brousch> jrwren: i've tried every image type and they all get huge
<brousch> going from a SVG PDF to an image of any kind just balloons it
<snap-l> brousch: That makes sense
<brousch> and i'm dealing with 30"x42" blueprints, sometimes a thousand of them in a job
<jrwren> snap-l: some trance discs
<jrwren> "trance voices"
<jrwren> terrible. I should just delete, but I keep it for some reason.
<snap-l> Heh, I have a few discs lke that
<jrwren> brousch: well, SVG is a much more efficient storage format.
<jrwren> 30"x42" at what dpi?
<brousch> 300-600
<brousch> i usually target 400
<brousch> so 200MB of PDFs turns into 2GB of JPG
<snap-l> That sounds about right
<snap-l> you're taking a space-efficient vector format and rasterizing it
<snap-l> That's not free.
<jrwren> sounds ghastly.
<brousch> it is
<brousch> and sometimes can take hours to convert
<jrwren> I take it back, disc2 has a lot of great songs. but some crap too
<greg-g> sorry for the shameless commerce addition to my email to the list
<_stink_> heh
<greg-g> but it worked!
<greg-g> :)
<_stink_> already selling like hotcakes?
<greg-g> well, the Sys76 desktop got a inquiry within 4 minutes of me sending the email
<_stink_> hah
<jrwren> greg-g: i want your speakers
<snap-l> Wow, got the estimate for the repairs on the vehicle
<snap-l> let's just say I love my insurance company.
<rick_h_> that's good I guess
<snap-l> $500 deductible
<snap-l> around $5K worth of repairs
<rick_h_> yea, insurance seems nice when you end up using it
<devinheitmueller> Hey, anybody interested in a Dell "n-series" Ubuntu PC from 2007?  I'm doing some housekeeping in preparation for my move and it could use a good home....
<devinheitmueller> I've actually got the full specs here, if anybody wants to look:  https://support.dell.com/support/order/details.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&order_number=851144249&validate=86651418
<brousch> hm, all of the nice djvu editing tools are proprietary
<brousch> i should probably just stick with jpg
<jrwren> specs?
<rick_h_> jrwren: link above
<jrwren> i'm slow :)
<jrwren> devinheitmueller: that looks perfect for my mom, but I already gave her my laptop :(
<jrwren> snap-l: do you still want my Amiga 1000 or should I put it on ebay?
<jrwren> damn, $250 on ebay, maybe I'll go ebay
<devinheitmueller> jrwren: fair enough.  It works fine, I am just trying to lug one less PC back to NYC (I am already dragging seven back)
<jrwren> 7!!! zomg.
<devinheitmueller> Yes, this is why I am trying to cut back.
<devinheitmueller> Macbook, iMac, 8-core Linux dev box, MythTV box, Windows box, work laptop, and the Dell.
<jrwren> i gues if i had to move it would be 5, but 3 are laptops :)
<snap-l> jrwren: Send it my way. ;)
<jrwren> snap-l: ok. maybe this is my excuse to come to CHC tonight :)
<snap-l> If you're looking for $$, though, definitely put it up on eBay.
<jrwren> nope, I'd rather know that someone I know has it and is maybe even getting joy out of it.
<jrwren> if you fix its mouse: bonus
<snap-l> heh. :)
<snap-l> Thank you.
<snap-l> Also, love my boss. Told her that my car was in the shop until 8/16, and without flinching she's already on to me taking a train or whatnot to get there.
<snap-l> Seriously wonder what hidden agenda she has.
<rick_h_> well she's got half the company coming, easier to get you vs cancel everyone else lol
<jcastro> I brought /6 computers/ with me to florida
<greg-g> jrwren: cool. Noted.
<greg-g> jrwren: when do you want to get them?
<rick_h_> Blazeix: you coming to CHC?
<rick_h_> _stink_: ?
<Blazeix> rick_h_: yep
<rick_h_> Blazeix: wonder if I can try to get you and snap-l to test out some of my PyOhio homework
<Blazeix> sure, sounds fun
<snap-l> I'm planning on being at CHC, so that would be cool
<rick_h_> ok, cool. I'll either get it on github or have a usb drive handy
<rick_h_> want to see if this makes sense
<brousch> homework?
<rick_h_> though obviously it's sans the talk, but whatever
<snap-l> rick_h_: You don't know the half of it re this meeting
<rick_h_> snap-l: ruh roh :/
<snap-l> rick_h_: I honestly want to know what fire she's set that requires me to come piss out.
<snap-l> got a call with her at 2pm
<jrwren> http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/content/video  wow... nebula product looks cool.
<_stink_> rick_h_: not today, heading to the zoo instead.
<rick_h_> _stink_: cool, have fun :)
<brousch> jrwren: i've been playing with conversions some more. png produces much nicer images without sacrificing size very much. i'll have to play with parameters more and see if how far i can take it
<brousch> however the images are much slower to covert and open
<jrwren> yup. typical CPU v. space compression trade.
<brousch> all i want is perfect images in a tiny size in an open format that displays quickly. is that too much to ask?
<jrwren> nope.
<jrwren> why not keep the full size, but also keep around some scaled down versions?
<jrwren> like a 2Mpixel version for screen viewing?
<brousch> too small
<brousch> some of these damn drawings have like 8pt font
<brousch> 2ftx3ft and you have to pull out the magnifying glass to read them
<jrwren> sounds smaller than 8pt.
<jrwren> brousch: oh!!! I know!!!  MSFT has a tech for this.
<jrwren> DeepZoom.
<jrwren> https://www.microsoft.com/uk/wave/software-deepzoom.aspx
<Blazeix> there's also seadragon ajax, which is that in JS.
<jrwren> same thing.
<jrwren> i mean, same underlying tech.
<jrwren> photosync.
<jrwren> photozoom from mslive labs.
<jrwren> unfortunately they never really released anything for desktop :(
<jrwren> http://mith.info/tile/2010/09/07/the-open-source-seadragon/  interesting
<brousch> yes
<jrwren> brousch: sounds like a super fun problem. hire me so I can solve it?
<brousch> heh
<brousch> one of my projects is a program to do what we call take-offs
<brousch> where our estimators study a set of drawings and find all of the stuff we actually build
<brousch> it's all printed right now because it's too cumbersome with today's monitors
<brousch> i imagine something like a 2ftx3ft MS surface where you touch stuff and flip through digital images quickly
<jrwren> ms surface is shit.  its 1024x768
<brousch> right, need much higher res
<brousch> i estimate we need 6300x4500 to keep things readable without zooming all the time
<jrwren> brousch: seadragon!
<jrwren> then you can load and zoom FAST
<brousch> damnit, i just remembered why i didn't go with PNG. our batch plotting software can't handle it
<jrwren> but it does lossy jpeg?
<brousch> yeah
<brousch> jpg, tif, pdf, plt
<snap-l> Whew... just got off the phone with my boss
<_stink_> she quit?
<snap-l> Not going to Naperville next week (which is a plus)
<snap-l> _stink_: No, but I'm very close.
<brousch> aw, a train ride would be fun
<rick_h_> Blazeix snap-l if you get a sec, checkout htis git repo please: https://github.com/mitechie/sqlalchemy_pyohio2011
<rick_h_> need sqlalchemy installed, be it in a venv with that or system wide
<rick_h_> and no peeking at the presentation cheaters!
 * brousch forks it
<_stink_> hah
<brousch> sends it to wikileaks
<brousch> EXCLUSIVE! PYOHIO PRESENTATION SOURCE CODE LEAKED!
<rick_h_> crap
 * brousch schedules a sqlalchemy bof for Sat morning
<rick_h_> move it to sunday
<rick_h_> thinking of doing a "SqlAlchemy homework" open space on sunday
<brousch> i was trying to schedule it before your actual presentation
<rick_h_> yea, don't do that m'kay :P
<brousch> i'm not going to look
<snap-l> rick_h_: Is there a requirements.txt file? :)
 * snap-l braces for the "it's in the fabric file, just type fab flibbernutter foo foo db: foo"
<rick_h_> snap-l: heh no.
<rick_h_> only req to do homework is sqlalchemy
<nullspace> hola
<snap-l> Hey nullspace
<rick_h_> to generate the presentation you need fabric, rst2pdf and such
<rick_h_> but mainly just worried about the homework part
<rick_h_> so you should be able to go into src/demo
<rick_h_> and there's a movies.db there that's sqlite
<rick_h_> and models/homework scripts for working on
<nullspace> rick_h talking about homework?
<snap-l> I just ran test.py and it did everything for me
<rick_h_> heh, that doesn't implement all the homework, just my own snaity check stuff
<rick_h_> nullspace: yea, getting some people at CHC to help test out some of my tutorial assignment stuff for my pyohio tutorial this weekend
<snap-l> This is hard
<snap-l> Screw it, I'm doing this in Django's ORK.
<snap-l> Object Relational Koder
<rick_h_> you're a funny man :P
<snap-l> I'm on a remote machine, so I'm not 100% sure what I should be doing here
<rick_h_> nothing yet, just getting it checked out onto the machine you bring to CHC :)
<snap-l> ahhhhhhhh
<snap-l> this is hard.
<snap-l> ;)
<snap-l> I'm going shopping
<gamerchick02> i don't think your fabric is the same as my fabric.
<rick_h_> heh, no, mine is 'special' fabric
<rick_h_> cpu cycle quality stuff
<gamerchick02> when I think of fabric, i think of sewing.
<nullspace> what was that about developers not being allowed to name their projects
<nullspace> node.js, v8, fiber, fabric
<nullspace> rick_h_: what's your tutorial on?
<rick_h_> sqlalchemy
<rick_h_> a python ORM
<rick_h_> think doctrine ORM for python but that works well
<nullspace> hmm been meaning to learn about that
<nullspace> I'm a recent convert to cyanne
<snap-l> Need to come to PyOhio
<nullspace> yeah maker fair is this weekend, I made a chandelier out of 1/2 conduit and LEDs
<rick_h_> java orm?
<nullspace> yep
<nullspace> apache made no less
<snap-l> cyanne, or cayanne?
<nullspace> caynne
<_stink_> ..
<nullspace> Cayenne
<rick_h_> didn't know you went java
<nullspace> our project got too big for php
<nullspace> too much matha nd I was tired of writing SQL
<snap-l> And you ran out of bullets for your feet, so your company decided to bring out the Java guns.
<rick_h_> ugh, I'm going to cry
<rick_h_> xml files?
<nullspace> no, absolutley no
<rick_h_> ? what the tutorial seems to show
<rick_h_> starting a new project, generating xxx.map.xml and such
<nullspace> cayenne may make them but I don't have to touch them, ever
<rick_h_> right, you use eclipse gui tool?
<nullspace> only to right some java here and there
<rick_h_> sounds like more fun than I could have
<nullspace> not using maven or integrating the eclipse in with cayenne
<nullspace> cayenne is build the database and auto gens the libs and classes
<jrwren> why would you use cyanne over hybernate?
<gamerchick02> cayenne is a pepper. very good on hard boiled eggs and on stir fry... is it also a computer program?
<nullspace> we had a lot of luck with intgrating solr into our project and loved the docs and java intgration methods, so we figured bes to stick with apache projects
<nullspace> jrwren: honestly I won't have an answer that will really point out pros and cons
<nullspace> just started leanr cayenne and then went with it
<jrwren> why java? wy not something else?
<nullspace> javadocs are awesome
<nullspace> plus we loved solr, and the java libs were stupid simple to use
<snap-l> I'd regard solr as the exception for Java projects. ;)
<greg-g> off-topice sidenote: to be honest, I thought my Lian Li case would have sold first. that is one nice ass case.
<nullspace> isn't hadroop written in java
<nullspace> oh and loads of android apps
<snap-l> Hadoop is in Java, yes
<snap-l> greg-g: I've been eyeballing it, only to remind myself that I already have one
<greg-g> snap-l:  :)
<snap-l> Though if I had to do it over, I would have gotten the black one instead of silver.
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> I won't trade
<snap-l> Yeah, figured as much
<nullspace> I'm thinking over the winter that I want to try my hand at making my own case
<snap-l> Can someone riddle me what DevOps are outside of developers with root access?
<snap-l> I keep seeing this term thrown around as though it's a good thing
<nullspace> devs that just can't say no to more responsiblity
<greg-g> snap-l: didn't you read kirkland's post? It's all there! ;)
<snap-l> Yeah, I read that
<snap-l> that's what brought this up to minf
<snap-l> mind, even
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> I hate to sound all hipster, but I was a DevOp before they called it that. ;)
<snap-l> It's called hacking your own box
<snap-l> Also known as Shadow IT.
<nullspace> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DevOps
<nullspace> even has a venndiagram
<snap-l> Oh, so it's essentially Agile applied to the server room?
<snap-l> I thought that was just called "get shit done"
 * snap-l is puffing out his hipster cred
<nullspace> it's called getting the MCSE out of the supreme seat of power
<greg-g> I like to live life without having an MCSE between me and anything ;)
<snap-l> MCSE? Bwahahaha
<rick_h_> ah, new seat installed on the bike
<rick_h_> so much nicer
<rick_h_> snap-l: heads up I'll be late for CHC
<snap-l> Uh oh
<nullspace> you laugh until an MCSE has control of the firewall and reboots the damn thing 3 times a day
<rick_h_> have dr appt until 6:15 and then drop off boy then back out
<snap-l> rick_h_: OK.
<snap-l> I was thinking you were saying "I'll be biking down I-75"
<rick_h_> hah, no
<rick_h_> but biking up to dr, then picking up the boy with the trailer
<rick_h_> then home
<snap-l> nullspace: pfft... No, we have Cisco Certified Engineers to do that.
<gamerchick02> CHC is tonight? damn. i'd love to go.
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: yea, 3hr long edition last wed of the month
<rick_h_> ah crap, maybe I won't be biking it, just saw a rain drop
<Blazeix> yeah, lots of yellow on the weather map
<gamerchick02> nice, rick_h_
<rick_h_> boooo, just got my seat. I want to ride
<gamerchick02> if i can come sometime, i'll have to get directions and i might turn up. it'd be fun to hang with you all.
<gamerchick02> it's been raining here up in mid-MI land.
<rick_h_> just head down I75 until you run into us
<rick_h_> gamerchick02: what ahppened to Saginaw CHC?
<rick_h_> or UH
<rick_h_> thought you had a couple for it up there
<nullspace> snap-l: well we have some "nick Burns" guy grandfathered in to the postion of "Messing with your tubes"
<gamerchick02> i just have me. i was thinking about Saturday, but i'm not sure if ppl will show.
<jcastro> man dude rick_h_
<jcastro> these arms are AWESOME
<nullspace> arms?
<jcastro> I got some monitor arsm
<nullspace> monoprice?
<rick_h_> jcastro: awesome, glad you like them
<jrwren> snap-l: i've never even heard of a dev ops
<rick_h_> they're half the price of the real arms, but really solid
<jrwren> sounds like a classic systems programmer
<jrwren> new name for old thing?
<rick_h_> oh come on, devops is the 2010/2011 term for those doing puppet/chef
<rick_h_> programming to run your infrustructure
<brousch> the sysadmin for your cloud
<nullspace> sysadmin who actually knows how to script rather than those who can only seem to press shiny buttons
<jrwren> after reading wikipedia page, sounds like devops is a response to shitty devs that don't do QA.  so its what good It folks have done all along :)
<jrwren> " jcastro| these arms are AWESOME"  for a sec I thought rick_h_ had been working out. doing curls
<nullspace> jcastro: where did you pick yours up at?
<Blazeix> or rick_h_ is selling weapons on the side
<nullspace> maybe he is testing on arm processors?
<jrwren> do you know any snake doctors?
<jrwren> because his pythons are SICK!
<rick_h_> hah, yea, weapons of monitor destruction
<rick_h_> well, hopefully not
<rick_h_> they're really nice if you get willing to drop a bit more than monoproce
<rick_h_> /proce/price
<brousch> rick_h_'s arms http://www.metavitae.com/images/arms-thumb.jpg
<nullspace> still waiting on a proper noun that is a location or possibley a url
<nullspace> brousch: can't tell if he is flexing or exploding
<brousch> he rides that edge
<jcastro> nullspace: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AMJC2K
<jcastro> (sorry I was afk putting it together)
<nullspace> jcastro: mine is basically this:
<nullspace> http://www.amazon.com/Dual-Monitor-Stand-clamp-monitors/dp/B002R9HQLI/ref=pd_cp_e_3
<brousch> thunder. i'm scared
<brousch> why does it look like 9pm outside?
<snap-l> Because it's going to rain?
<gamerchick02> yeah, you'll get some rain. we already got ours.
<gamerchick02> not much though.
<ColonelPanic001> you're in saginaw, aen't you? Little further north
<ColonelPanic001> I think Detroit is going to be mostly spared.
<ColonelPanic001> http://www.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?ID=DTX&region=a4&lat=42.37338638&lon=-83.07702637&label=Detroit%2c%20MI
<gamerchick02> yes i am
<gamerchick02> ah
<gamerchick02> doesn't look too bad. :)
<ColonelPanic001> ;)
<greg-g> _stink_: rick_h_: it's a boy!
<jrwren> O_O ?
<greg-g> yeah!
<jrwren> today was your ultrasound gender day?
<jrwren> congrats!!!!
<greg-g> ultrasound sex day, but yeah :)
<greg-g> (I'm pedantic like that)
<greg-g> thanks, jrwren
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> why s/gender/sex?
<greg-g> since sex is defined as having a penis or a vagina (or the 3rd option of intersex, where you have both/neither) while gender is the outward display of feminity or masculinity
<greg-g> now, they corelate quite well, but not always :)
<greg-g> yes, I was an anthropology undergrad ;)
<greg-g> jrwren: to be fair, the nurse also said gender
<jrwren> thank you greg-g
<jrwren> I'm pedantic like that too.
<jrwren> word meaning is important
<jrwren> the arguer in me wants to rant about the biological definition of "sex" and point out that you still don't knwo if its XX or XY or some other option.
<jrwren> But I know the word "sex" is overloaded.
<greg-g> jrwren: :)
<gamerchick02> wow. i missed a bit when i had dinner
<gamerchick02> grats, greg-g :)
<greg-g> gamerchick02: thanks!
<greg-g> brousch: you missed the news, it is a boy :)
<gamerchick02> your'e welcome. somehow i miss stuff in irc
<gamerchick02> ugh
<greg-g> gamerchick02: it happens :)
<gamerchick02> yeah, i know.
<brousch> greg-g: whew! congrats
<brousch> boys are the most fun
<greg-g> so, now, the official fetal name is Ubu. It was Zuzu when we thought it was a girl. From now on, all male fetuses are Ubu and female are Zuzu.
<brousch> ubu for ubuntu?
<brousch> zuzu for zuzu pets?
<brousch> our son was named chewbacca until we settled on a name
<greg-g> haha, nice
<greg-g> Ubu comes from Ubuntu yeah :0
<greg-g> :)
<brousch> i actually forgot all about that until you mentioned the funky names
<gamerchick02> Oooh, i like the idea of chewbacca.
<gamerchick02> if you're a bug geek, you can call it "larva"
<_stink_> greg-g: congrats! (equal amounts were it a girl :P )
<rick_h_> greg-g: dude! welcome to the club
<rick_h_> remind me to tell you what my neighbor says having a boy means
<brousch> it means you're awesome?
<greg-g> hah
<gamerchick02> i'm off. see everyone later
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-28
<greg-g> alright, must have android apps?
<snap-l> wordfeud (craig@decafbad.net)
<snap-l> also, congratulations on the sexing of your new arrival
<snap-l> (man, that came out weird)
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> thanks (?)
<snap-l> :)
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> I <3 my subaru
<rick_h_> that is all :)
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> party
<greg-g> rick_h_: the wet roads made you <3 your subaru today? :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: telegraph was flooded in 3 places
<rick_h_> one whole intersection shut down
<rick_h_> had to go on the sides of the road around it
<rick_h_> stuck cars in a few places
<rick_h_> was awesome!
<Wolfger> You had to go around it? Bah!
<Wolfger> Buy a Jeep and drive on through! :-D
<rick_h_> well the police cars with flashing lights kept me from trying
<rick_h_> but I was tempted
<rick_h_> I saw the one stuck car and think at that depth/level of moving water I could have made it
<Wolfger> whenever the road I'm on is flooded out, I slow way down.... to allow the car in front of me to clear the puddle so I can blast on through at a decent speed. XD
<rick_h_> yea, that's what killed me
<rick_h_> morons don't know how to hit the water running
<greg-g> rick_h_: haha, awesome indeed :)
<greg-g> well, on my bike ride in..... no, nevermind, not nearly as cool :(
<rick_h_> man, you ride in today?
<rick_h_> you're crazy
<rick_h_> bwuhahaha, 16gb of ram in the new work desktop
<rick_h_> <3
<brousch> geez
<rick_h_> ugh, this bios blows
<snap-l> rick_h_: I see you got your love note from IT. ;)
<rick_h_> thinks the usb thumb drive is a hard drive
<greg-g> rick_h_: it wasn't really raining when i came in, just wore the rain pants/jacket and I was good to go
<rick_h_> in order to boot from it you have to set the usb drive as the first hard drive and set hard drive as the first boot option
<rick_h_> of course once I pull it you know the device names will change and grub will choke
<greg-g> werid
<rick_h_> greg-g: ah, very cool
<snap-l> rick_h_: Is this a Dell?
<rick_h_> yea I guess I did see the radar letting up to the west this morning
<rick_h_> no, some home built thing
<rick_h_> asus amd something or other
<brousch> usually you can bring up a boot menu
<snap-l> Asus you shold be able to just boot from the USB key, unless they've changed something
<brousch> and that lets you choose which hard drive to boot from
<rick_h_> yea, what I mean is that the boot menu only shows one hard drive
<rick_h_> and only the first hard drive in the 'hard drive' menu
<snap-l> yeah, like rapidly hitting escape / del
<brousch> ah
<brousch> it seems like the eeepc was like that
<rick_h_> but yea, 16gb of ram, 1.5tb disk
<snap-l> Oh, that sucks.
<rick_h_> yea, it's a pita
<rick_h_> oh well
<snap-l> Burn a CD. ;)
<rick_h_> tempted, but that involves finding a blank in the office and hearing that damn thing spin all day
<brousch> all day?
<rick_h_> it's slow vs usb
<brousch> bah, 45mins
<snap-l> Thought this was a boot once, install, and done deal?
<rick_h_> installing from cd is dreadfully slow
<rick_h_> I'm used to my 5min installs usb->ssd
<snap-l> rick_h_: Pfft. One hour, and you're done.
<snap-l> If that
<brousch> of course, i am thinking of an ubuntu install
<rick_h_> jcastro: should be happy, finally installing 11.04
<brousch> gonna rip out the good stuff?
<snap-l> Bah, haven't you heard? All the cool kids are on 11.10 now
<rick_h_> hah
<rick_h_> going to see about making this all VM, use vagrant
<snap-l> It's got all of the fixes that'll never be backported to 11.04
<brousch> rick_h_: don't go messing with your laptop before pyohio
<rick_h_> brousch: no, not touching it
<rick_h_> this is all just on this desktop
<brousch> moving windows around 11.04 with a projector is not fun. not really something you want to do for the first time at a big conference
<rick_h_> heh, no the laptop is still on arch
<snap-l> brousch: I've had no problems with mine.
<rick_h_> not getting an ubuntu install until maybe the next LTS
<snap-l> Runs smooth on a projector
<brousch> mirror works well
<snap-l> Yeah, that's what I use.
<greg-g> I have stupid "windows go everywhere!" when I switch between 1 and 2 monitors
<brousch> non-mirror does not work well
<brousch> especially with impress
<snap-l> Impress is not happy under Natty
<snap-l> Er, I'm thinking INkscape
<snap-l> forgive.
<brousch> inkscape isn't so bad
<rick_h_> meh, doing rst->pdf and using pdf as the presentation format
<rick_h_> seems to be working really well so far
<brousch> i'm using S5
<snap-l> I don't use Impress for presentations anyway. I use PDFs.
<rick_h_> scary, never thought of pdfs as a presentation format, but here we go
<brousch> good portability. so when i step on your laptop and the only person willing to lend you one runs winME, you're still good to go
<snap-l> They work. That's what the problem is
<rick_h_> lol
<snap-l> It's not even a question of fallback, it completely short-circuits the process.
<snap-l> God, why do I even try to rsync anything over wireless.
<brousch> because you enjoy pain
<snap-l> Hooked the laptop to wired ethernet, and just transfered a file in seconds that didn't even finish in a half hour
<snap-l> And, which saturated the network enough that the iPhone couldn't connect to wireless. ;)
<rick_h_> yea, days I love my wired gb switch
<snap-l> brousch: Indeed.
<snap-l> This isn't even 1gb, it's still 100mb
<snap-l> But still, faster than almost 54mb
<rick_h_> ah, with the N network, 100mb isn't quite fast enough
<snap-l> Still rockin' the WRT54GL. ;)
<snap-l> Unfortunately Tomato doesn't support many N routers that I'm aware of
<brousch> we use wrt54g at work. very solid
<snap-l> though I'm starting to think that I'll need to forego it in favor of one of the other firmwares if I do decide to upgrade.
<rick_h_> where's jrwren when I need him. He should read http://paste.ofcode.org/StxVZ8hfdhPhbbLAvq53rb and mike beyer's post on https://plus.google.com/109591387819364984777/posts/DNHcVxyP8Gs
<rick_h_> yea, I have my tomoato router handling some of the network
<rick_h_> but had to get the N for the netflix streaming
<snap-l> I think the biggest hurdle in SQLAlchemy is knowing what you want in SQL, but not knowing the syntax enough to get there.
<snap-l> but that's not a fault of the ORM by a long shot
<snap-l> I'm with Les Orchard to a certain extent
<rick_h_> ?
<snap-l> His comment is under Michael Foord's
<rick_h_> ah, had to pull the page back up
<brousch> heh, i shut down my last slicehost slice a year or so ago. they still send me a monthly invoice for -$0.71
<brousch> yes, i have a 71 cent credit left over
<snap-l> They likely have some logic that won't cut a check until that credit is over $1
<snap-l> I really, really hate the Thinkpad Wireless drivers on this laptop
<snap-l> Any time I go somewhere else, I have to manually find my own router.
<snap-l> Just so they can show me that stupid distance graph
<snap-l> Morning conference call is awesome.
<rick_h_> woot
<snap-l> Just a listening in call, so that's good
<snap-l> And of course because I'm not using enough bandwidth, McAffee is doing an update.
<rick_h_> lol, ubuntu install finished and when it went for a reboot is ejected the cdrom
<greg-g> wait, isn't it supposed to?
<greg-g> oh, you didn't use a CD
<greg-g> haha
<rick_h_> right, just funny
<greg-g> that is kind of hilarious
<snap-l> Love that someone is using their laptop near the microphone.
<rick_h_> oh come on, the laptop is the microphone
<snap-l> It's a good mic
<rick_h_> gah! this is ghastly
<snap-l> Whatever they're using.
<snap-l> rick_h_: Let me help you.
<rick_h_> how do you guys use this? giant freaking images
<rick_h_> it burns!!!!!
<snap-l> You can change that.
<snap-l> They're sliding the microphone back and forth
<snap-l> sounds like a creative labs mic.
<greg-g> rick_h_: lol
<snap-l> Wow, this is like nails on a chalkboard.
<rick_h_> I'm stuck, it's downloading (very slowly) an ati driver so I can't apt-get install awesome, etc
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/zFB/
<greg-g> snap-l++
<snap-l> http://askubuntu.com/questions/29553/how-can-i-configure-unity
<rick_h_> it's ok, I just turned off that monitor for now. I'll wait for the install of the driver to finish and then I'll fix things :)
<jrwren> speaking of 11.10, how easy is it to get up in xen on 11.04 ?
<snap-l> I abandoned Xen for KVM
<snap-l> And Virtualbox
<jrwren> rick_h_: nice sql alchemy writeup there.
<Wolfger> so am I reading this correctly, that the wx module is producing the error because it can't find a bitmap image? http://pastebin.com/Kf95fL25
<snap-l> Paste the sample code?
<jrwren> i probably meant KVM
<jrwren> I don't recall what VM I went with last. :)
<snap-l> I used the virtual manager under 11.04 for my demo at MUG because Virtualbox wouldn't boot the image I had
<snap-l> and it worked fine
<Wolfger> snap-l: http://pastebin.com/jaE5rnjz
<snap-l> I've not stressed it mugh, though
<jrwren> to run 11.11 ?
<snap-l> No, was running 10.04
<snap-l> Wow, it's really raining here.
<snap-l> Love the rain
<snap-l> though not loving that I need to put the trash out in the rain.
<Wolfger> Hey, at least you don't have to drive through downtown in the rain
<Wolfger> Utterly ridiculous
<snap-l> I'm having trouble getting wxpython installed on this machine
<snap-l> 2.9.2 isn't setting up nicely.
<Wolfger> :-(
<jjesse> another sunny and 95 day here in cinci
<snap-l> Trying a more direct approach. ;)
<snap-l> Wolfger: Which version are you using? 2.8 or 2.9?
<Wolfger> ok, coffee engaging brain... Despite traceback pointing me at line 47, I think the problem may be coming from line 46, where a .png is specified... a .png which I'm pretty sure does not exist on my machine
<snap-l> That's what I was hoping to demo
<snap-l> unfortunately, I don't think this thing installs via pip
<Wolfger> 2.8 is what I have
<snap-l> I got the error as a dialog box
<snap-l> One sec while my personal cloud waits
<brousch> on windows you really need to use the right installer
<snap-l> Yeah, it's really tricky under Windows.
<brousch> have to match your python version, 32bit/64bit, and unicode
<snap-l> http://ubuntuone.com/p/16e0/
<Wolfger> python 2.7, wx 2.8-32bit-unicode
<Wolfger> Space Invaders? Seriously? LOL
<Wolfger> wow, that's nice that you get a dialog box like that
<Wolfger> I just get a flicker of the screen. Had to Google the setting to dump the traceback to a log file so I could find out any damned thing
<gamerchick02> did you know: there's Frozen Bubble for Android?
 * gamerchick02 is a Frozen Bubble fan.
<Wolfger> FB FTW
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> free no ads.
<Wolfger> I'll be downloading that soon. Thanks!
<gamerchick02> i was gonna get angry birds, but then i'm like... it has ads.
<gamerchick02> oh, you're welcome
<gamerchick02> :)
<gamerchick02> nice to see someone else loves it too! :)
<Wolfger> FB, FB Plus, and FB level editor
<ColonelPanic001> hi
<brousch> are those zuckerberg's newest scams for making money?
<ColonelPanic001> yes
<ColonelPanic001> Someone needs to make a Facebook RPG
<snap-l> It could be like adventure with the winklevoss twins as the dragons
<gamerchick02> Frozen Bubble, guys!
<gamerchick02> it's on android. i found it! it's awesome.
<snap-l> and privacy concerns as the bat, that takes away your sword.
<snap-l> Yawn. Wake me when there's an iPhone version. ;)
<gamerchick02> snap-l look in the iphone store. there might be.
<gamerchick02> how do you use an iphone with linux? don't you need itunes?
<snap-l> I don't. It's my work iPhone.
<snap-l> Goes with the work computer
<gamerchick02> oh
<gamerchick02> you're work gave you an iphone?
<gamerchick02> wow
<gamerchick02> neat
<Wolfger> snap-l: issue confirmed. Found an existing .png to use and put the full path in on line 46, and I'm a happy coder (er... copy & paster? :-p)
<ColonelPanic001> I sort of have a work phone. My SIM in it, and really, it's not assigned to me, more like they don't mind me using it, esp. since I do mobile stuff for work
<ColonelPanic001> but, technically at any minute my boss could say someone else needs to use it, and it's out. heh
<snap-l> heh
<ptenhoopen> I thought that Apple banned GPL apps from their app store?
<ptenhoopen> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/no-gpl-apps-for-apples-app-store/8046
<ptenhoopen> Maybe they changed their mind.  IDK
<Wolfger> I need to stop copy/pasting crap and type the code myself. Not only would I catch errors like that, but also when I go to insert code I'm getting "unexpected indent" errors because the pasted code isn't indented the same as handwritten code :-p
<greg-g> you know what I hate about the phone hacking community: their over use of web forums to release software. Holy unable to tell what the current version is, batman!
<gamerchick02> ptenhoopen, that's kind of crap. though it's Apple, they can do what they want with their app store.
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, +1 on that
<jrwren> GPL is banned from the store because its impossible to link GPL code with the core cocoa libraries.
<jrwren> LGPL should be fine.
<snap-l> And SDL is dual licensed for that reason (LGPL / Commercial)
<jrwren> and mysql and mono and dozens of others.
<PainBank> Has anyone dealt with Contextual Arabic before?  for rendering glyphs on screen?
<snap-l> Not I, good sir.
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/castrojo/statuses/96590908715307008
<snap-l> https://one.ubuntu.com/
<snap-l> Temporary maintenance
<snap-l> Ubuntu One is currently down for maintenance and will be back soon. All of your data is safe and we're working to restore service quickly.
<snap-l> For information about upcoming maintenance windows subscribe to our mailing list, check our blog or follow Ubuntu One on twitter and identi.ca to get updates.
<snap-l> (*sigh*)
<snap-l> http://www.spreadshirt.com/fail-narwhal-C3376A5534525
<Wolfger> heh
<snap-l> There we go. Site is up.
<snap-l> Wow, now folks get 5GB for free.
<Wolfger> ....and this is why semi-colons at the end-of-line is so much better than whitespace being a significant part of the code </grumble>
<rick_h_> Blazeix: any issues with Virtualbox lately?
<rick_h_> I'm trying to get it running with little luck
<rick_h_> well I guess Virtualbox runs, but any vms fire off errors with lack of /dev/vboxdrv and such
<snap-l> Which version are you using?
<rick_h_> 4.1.0 OSE
<jrwren> what is why?
<jrwren> I much prefer whitespace
<jrwren> VB is awesome like that
<Wolfger> ugh
<Wolfger> I don't want to hunt through code to find where there's an extra/missing indent.
<greg-g> snap-l: I love how they say to follow U1 on identi.ca, but the identi.ca account hasn't been updated at all today, no 5 gig annoucement nor bit about downtown. (I already complained to beuno privately)
<rick_h_> Wolfger: the exception tells you where it is
<greg-g> yeah, line number and all :)
<rick_h_> better yet, install pyflakes and it'll tell you right away
<rick_h_> "you don't want this here...move it!"
<brousch> i need to start using stuff like that, pyflakes and pylint
<rick_h_> brousch: at pyohio hit me up, we'll get your vim all setup
<brousch> my what?
<rick_h_> vim
<rick_h_> what else are you hooking pyflakes/pylint into?
<rick_h_> :P
<brousch> pydev!
 * rick_h_ sighs
<Wolfger> lol
<brousch> i think i had pylint in it before my HD fail
<brousch> i am mostly using gedit lately
 * rick_h_ dbl sighs
<brousch> i know
<greg-g> hey, nothing wrong with using a basic editor for things
<rick_h_> if you're using gedit you might as well be using vim
<greg-g> if you're day isn't solely spent developing, that is
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> greg-g: sssh, you're harshing my brousch guilt trip
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> oh right, yeah, gedit suxorz
<rick_h_> see! even greg-g says so
 * greg-g hides his gedit instance
<rick_h_> and he knows all!
<brousch> it does syntax highlighting, line numbers, paren matching, has an embedded python console, spell checking, snippets, indents correctly, shows me line at 80chars
<greg-g> embedded console?
<brousch> check the plugins
<greg-g> neat
<greg-g> oh wait, sorry...
<greg-g> that's lame!
<jcastro> rick_h_: man, my desk setup is awesome with those arms
<brousch> if you're awesome, you can use the python console to manipulate your code
<Wolfger> rick_h_ greg-g: Yeah, the exception points me right to the line number, and I'm looking at it thinking "there's nothing wrong with that!", and I delete the whitespace and retype it, and magically the code works.
<jcastro> rick_h_: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ea4k8SXVmAUah4jwKTjhekqsPcXl0ndrBoGKzLUgZuo?feat=directlink
<rick_h_> jcastro: <3 never regret getting them.
<brousch> Wolfger: get a real editor!
<Wolfger> apparantly, 2 tabs != 10 spaces even when each tab is 5 spaces wide
<brousch> like gedit
<rick_h_> Wolfger: rule #1...don't ever ever ever use tabs
<jcastro> rick_h_: I bought another corner of a galant, I will combine it with mine to make megadesk, with a total of 4 arms
<Wolfger> brousch: On Windows, I like ConText
<brousch> you need to be beaten with the pep8 stick
<rick_h_> find the "replace tabs with spaces" in your editor and move along
<rick_h_> jcastro: looks awesome
<Wolfger> rick_h_: wtf? Why not?
<brousch> thou shalt use 4 spaces to indent. no more, no less
<rick_h_> Wolfger: tis the law
<Wolfger> what's wrong with tabs?
<Wolfger> tabs > spaces
<brousch> diaf!
<rick_h_> Wolfger: I'll just warn you now. If you go to the python community with tabs in your file you will get flamed
<brousch> but seriously, the python convention is 4 spaces
<rick_h_> tools like pydev will yell at you
<rick_h_> and if you mix tabs/spaces even python will yell at you
<brousch> the very strong python convention
<rick_h_> very very string coding convention
<rick_h_> you'll find the rule with less vigor in ruby world and even the JS world lately
<rick_h_> though they use two spaces
<rick_h_> but never a tab
<Wolfger> fascists
<greg-g> you can't spell efficiency without fascism
<snap-l> greg-g: Even better, the iPhone link for U1 Music goes tot he android page.
<greg-g> snap-l: lolz
<Wolfger> OK, fixed the settings so 1 tab == 4 spaces and not hard tabs. Had to retype all the whitespace in the program, but it works now
<Wolfger> I even mixed it up a bit, alternating lines of 2 tabs and 8 spaces indent, and Python treated them as equal. I'm happy now.
<snap-l> For the love of God, don't do that in real life. ;)
<brousch> remember tomorrow: http://www.sysadminday.com/
<jcastro> jrwren: DDG will throw up any stack site, they index the raw dumps that are published
<Blazeix> rick_h_: did you figure out the vbox issue?
<Blazeix> you need to be in vboxusers, and modprobe vboxdrv
<Blazeix> also, vboxnetflt (i think that's what it's called) for networking
<greg-g> brousch: is it just me, or are all of the images at the bottom of the page broken (and thus, highly ironic)
<brousch> hah! very nice
<brousch> all of the sharing buttons
<snap-l> greg-g: It's not just you.
<jrwren> yeah man, DDG is SWEET
<jrwren> i'm loving it more and more every day.
<rick_h_> Blazeix: ah, ok, thanks
<rick_h_> yea, didn't have the group
<snap-l> http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Release_Notes
<snap-l> "Any Two Squeezeboxes Can Be a Stereo Pair"
<snap-l> Now I can justify getting another one. ;)
<gamerchick02> http://consumerist.com/2011/07/dont-bother-applying-for-a-job-unless-you-have-one-some-listings-say.html
<gamerchick02> irony. i love it.
<snap-l> gamerchick02: Yeah, I love that logic.
<gamerchick02> 'Oh we want someone experienced!!!"
<gamerchick02> "but how will i get experience without a job?"
<gamerchick02> logic, how does it work.
<gamerchick02> i'm about ready to put "self employed" on my resume.
<brousch> a big part of getting a job is who you know
<brousch> so get out there and meet some people
<brousch> i'm surprised the queen of the nile doesn't have a good job-search team
<gamerchick02> but i can't afford to go anywhere! and the people I know are unemployed or retired!
<snap-l> Interesting, squeezebox server moved to sqlite from mysql
<gamerchick02> brousch, i don't have that luxury. my officers would quit. and I can't afford that right now either.
<brousch> what do you mean?
<brousch> by your officers would quit?
<gamerchick02> if i ordered them to job search for me
<gamerchick02> it's all volunteer.
<snap-l> I'm not sure I'm following either
<brousch> no, just as a natural part of the networking that happens in a group like that
<gamerchick02> brousch said something about a job search team. i can't order my people to do anything. i'm a figurehead of a volunteer organization. so, essentially, i can't *make* anyone do anything. i can request.
<brousch> there are many people in the group. when you are mingling, you mention that you're looking for a job
<snap-l> Yeah, we do that at MUG
<gamerchick02> true. it's uncouth to pump people for jobs at a social event though.
<snap-l> folks looking for a job, folks looking to fill jobs
<gamerchick02> "i'm just talking to you because you look employed and can help me get a job"
<snap-l> It's not like that at all
<brousch> snap-l: i saw that in the MUG video: people looking for jobs, jobs looking for people
<brousch> gamerchick02: you're being much too direct
<gamerchick02> social skills, how do they work?
<brousch> "i'm talking to you because you're interesting, oh, and i'm looking for a job, so if you anything comes up ..."
<gamerchick02> i'll try that approach.
<gamerchick02> thanks
<brousch> social skills work like any other skill, practice practice practice
<PainBank> drink drink drink
<PainBank> :D
<gamerchick02> heh. i do need some practice.
<gamerchick02> oh, that works too.
<brousch> PainBank: +1
<PainBank> stop when you reach the point you lose conversational ability... a skill to be perfected
<gamerchick02> i do have an advantage that i have a wide range of interests, so barring some nit-picky stuff, i can speak with almost anyone about anything.
<PainBank> hence why I try to practice as often as I can
<gamerchick02> oi, that i'm not good at, PainBank (+1 to your name, btw)
<PainBank> haha thnx
<greg-g> gamerchick02: do you use anything for chat on your android phone? if so, what?
<gamerchick02> like IM?
<greg-g> yeah
<gamerchick02> i have the google talk program installed
<brousch> andchat
<brousch> google talk
<gamerchick02> does andchat do more than gtalk?
<PainBank> IRC client
<gamerchick02> oh. irc on my phone?
<PainBank> :D
<gamerchick02> that's way leet.
<PainBank> AndroIRC
<greg-g> I don't see a "google talk" app
<gamerchick02> i did a search for google talk.
<gamerchick02> it's the official gtalk app....
<gamerchick02> from google.
<gamerchick02> it's in my market. i think the market for my phone isn't restricted; one of the reasons why i went with it
<brousch> greg-g: usually it's already installed
<gamerchick02> talk wasn't installed for me.
<PainBank> gtalk works through... signing into gmail i believe
<gamerchick02> some dorky programs that are pretty much useless to me were installed (twidroyd, i'm looking at you.)
<PainBank> oh no, I have it as as sperate app
<PainBank> just called Talk
 * greg-g doesn't see gtalk in the market from google inc
<PainBank> htc pisses me off. I sooo want to uninstall Peep
<PainBank> and perhaps a few other htc apps
<gamerchick02> hrm.
<greg-g> PainBank: ditto for Virgin :)
<PainBank> makes me really, really want to root the phone
<greg-g> ditto, might push me over the edge just still this stupid app called "poynt" on my app list I can't delete
<gamerchick02> mine is called talk
<brousch> yeah, it just says "Talk" on the icon, and has a little while speech bubble that says "talk"
<gamerchick02> yeah, that's google talk
<gamerchick02> ok: how do i keep programs from starting up automatically?
<gamerchick02> and how do i exit programs without going to "applications" and "force quit"?
<brousch> you don't exit. exiting is deprecated behavior
<gamerchick02> *blink blink*
<PainBank> POWER OFF!
<gamerchick02> what?
<PainBank> :D
<gamerchick02> i am confuse.
<brousch> android will exit the program when it runs out of ram
<PainBank> there are a few programs out there that are supposed to help with that
<gamerchick02> but i don't want to run out of ram.
<brousch> it is a feature
<gamerchick02> can you tell i'm new to smartphones?
<PainBank> but I have been unimpressed so far
<gamerchick02> in your phone?
<greg-g> there is no "talk" available here: https://market.android.com/developer?pub=Google+Inc.
<brousch> hm, is gmail and google maps on there?
<rick_h_> greg-g: if it's an official google device it has to be on there
<rick_h_> the Talk app is actually used to be able to buy apps and such
<gamerchick02> gah. greg-g, i promise you there's a "Talk" app on my phone and in my market. :( finding it, however might not be easy.
<gamerchick02> i searched for talk and found a bunch of flirt apps
<gamerchick02> oi
<PainBank> try google chat
<PainBank> nice, android market place on the web has my installed apps....
<PainBank> not that I am a fan of the big G having my life documented...
<gamerchick02> it's because your'e signed in with your google account
<gamerchick02> has mine too.
<PainBank> well ya. :D
<brousch> greg-g: do you have a gmail account?
<PainBank> of course Talk doesn't show up in there.... so it must be part of the default install of Android
<gamerchick02> i've just given up and handed my life over to google
<gamerchick02> i welcome our search overlords.
<gamerchick02> PainBank, maybe that's it.
<gamerchick02> greg-g look at your already installed apps.
<brousch> i think you need a gmail/google account before some of that shows up
<PainBank> oohhh the next way for senators to get blasted by the media....
<PainBank> http://androidandme.com/2011/05/news/install-google-talk-with-video-chat-on-your-android-phone-right-now/
<brousch> but he's not rooted
<PainBank> back to the rooted phone
<PainBank> haha
<gamerchick02> politicians shouldn't have smartphones.
<gamerchick02> seriously. you'd think they'd be smarter about taking pictures of their, ahem, parts.
<jjesse> they have blackberries
<jjesse> not android
<gamerchick02> still have cameras and can tweet pics of their bits.
<gamerchick02> that didn't sound good at all. oi.
<PainBank> haha
<gamerchick02> i'm glad i bring a smile to your face. :)
<PainBank> this might help ya get gtalk installed.
<PainBank> http://androidforums.com/fascinate-support-troubleshooting/241877-reinstall-google-talk.html
<PainBank> meh
<PainBank> http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=1153&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fandroidforums.com%2Ffascinate-support-troubleshooting%2F241877-reinstall-google-talk.html&v=1&libid=1311872284417&out=http%3A%2F%2Fdl.dropbox.com%2Fu%2F15246936%2Fgtalkservice.apk&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D5%26ved%3D0CGcQFjAE%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fandroidforums.com%252Ffascinate-support-troubleshooting%252F241877-reinstall-google-
<PainBank> doh
<PainBank> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15246936/gtalkservice.apk
<brousch> the apk might work if he can install untrusted apps
<Wolfger> PainBank++ (re: drink, drink, drink)
<snap-l> I am installing Eclipse on my Windows machine
<snap-l> FML
<brousch> welcome to the club, come on in, have a seat
<snap-l> I swear, Eclipse makes me feel retarded.
<snap-l> I select new Project / Web Service
<snap-l> and at that moment Eclipse licks it's fingers and sticks them in my ears.
<snap-l> http://www.coderanch.com/t/448875/Web-Services/java/generate-java-class-wsdl-eclipse <- and it's discussions like this that make me stabby.
<snap-l> Eclipse comes with the webservice tools. You just need to right click the wsdl and click the generate the java client option. No need to use any third party jar file.
<brousch> yeah, i don't use it for java
<brousch> it's the best python ide out there
<snap-l> That's like saying that a shotgun is the best holepunch out there.
<brousch> i mostly trying to rile up rick_h_ again
<brousch> i don't actually use it for python any more, just for android
<Dekkard> Anyone ..
<brousch> for love?
<Dekkard> Ewwew
<Dekkard> I think R L Poll is looking for a Java person.
<Dekkard> Polk
<snap-l> I hope they can find one
<snap-l> Because in my next life, I'm never touching Java again
<snap-l> What the HELL is the point of a browse button that brings up an empty resource browser?
 * snap-l gets his bikehelmet out, as apparently I'm too stupid to use Eclipse.
<brousch> eclipse is only for the most elite developers
<snap-l> ops pls
<brousch> it doesn't surprise me that you are overwhelmed by it's firehose of awesomesauce
<snap-l>  /kickban broucsch
<jrwren> if they are doing scala in eclipse, then that is true.
<jrwren> brousch++
<PainBank> snap-l you win quote of the day my friend, I will remember that one!
<PainBank> "That's like saying that a shotgun is the best holepunch out there." is awesomeness!
<snap-l> thank you. :)
<rick_h_> bah, devops...just means an ops person that's willing to fight ruby to install anything ugh
<jrwren> rofl.
<jrwren> but... rvm makes everything perfect
<rick_h_> not when you're trying to do things system wide
<snap-l> https://twitter.com/#!/diveintomark/statuses/96635380379566080
<brousch> nice
<gamerchick02> snap-l, reminds me of the quote about how when all your problems are nails, then all your solutions are hammers. or something.
<gamerchick02> PainBank, that's totally correct about that quote being awesomesauce.
<snap-l> When your problem is Java, the only solution is to go fuck yourself.
<gamerchick02> java is never a problem for me. i take mine with cream and sugar.
<gamerchick02> oh, not that java?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<gamerchick02> i better be careful, snap-l will come up here specifically to smack me in the head.
<snap-l> Never let it be said I was inconsistent. ;)
<gamerchick02> my brother, "who's that at the door?" me, "oh, that's just snap-l. he's here to smack me for what i said in irc. open the door."
<jrwren> i just ran smartd for the first time. HOW COOL! now I get email when my disks have problems.
<jrwren> even silly incidental problems.
<gamerchick02> that is cool
<jrwren> i just realized my /etc/fstab has a /dev/fd0 entry in it. yes, thsi ubuntu install is that old.
<jrwren> its just been upgraded continuously
<brousch> jrwren: natty finally ended my system that had been upgraded from 6.06 -> 10.04
<brousch> natty driver issues forced me to reinstall 10.04
<jrwren> you didn't want to brave downgrading eh?
<jrwren> I know my system has been downgraded successfully too.
<brousch> impressive
<gamerchick02> http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/j26j0/for_engineers/
<gamerchick02> there are some people who will appreciate this! :)
<Wolfger> gamerchick02++
<gamerchick02> :-D
<Wolfger> Problem with that is.... I'm unable to determine if it's a joke, or for real. :-p
<rick_h_> phew, ok there. Work machine is usable, rxvt (looks like 256 color included now) awesome, vim config, chrome
<snap-l> At least someone is getting something done today.
<rick_h_> heh, I'm overflowing my brain with vagrant/chef stuff
<ColonelPanic001> gamerchick02++ for that link
<ColonelPanic001> nice
<rick_h_> another freaking thing to have to figure out
<gamerchick02> thanks.
<rick_h_> that will take me 3yrs to get anyone else to use
<snap-l> rick_h_: you could be doing SOAP
<rick_h_> this is very true
<snap-l> With the glorious pile of shit that is WSDLs
<rick_h_> but then there'd be some suicide involved
<rick_h_> and that gets messy
<rick_h_> now what are the odds my windows VM will migrate over to the new desktop in one swoop?
<brousch> i predict a reactivation in your future
<rick_h_> lol
<rick_h_> it's a corp license install
<rick_h_> so think that will be ok
<rick_h_> as long as it keeps all the novel, outlook, etc crap I'll be happy
<rick_h_> novell
<jrwren> man, soap and wsdl isn't that bad. sheesh
<snap-l> jrwren: Right, but add Java to the mix, and it's fucking awful.
<rick_h_> no, it's more the code/tools tied to that
<jrwren> that is true for * :)
<snap-l> I find it really cute that I have to accept a license to install Sun's Java packages
<jrwren> beware the crapware on windows.
<snap-l> LIke "Oh, how quaint. You think I really give a shit about you"
<snap-l> Oh I know
<jrwren> you'll get yahoo toolbar and other spyware.
<jrwren> but ya know... its safe and mono is evil
<snap-l> jrwren: Don't get me started
<jrwren> did boycott novell become boycott xamarin or boycott attachmate ?
<snap-l> I want to say that they sucked up so far into their own asshole that they created a temporal rift in the cosmos that could only be corrected by sucking them into an alternate dimension
<rick_h_> bah, I need a gb switch for my desk
<rick_h_> this is taking too long
<snap-l> Game Boy?
<ColonelPanic001> yes
<rick_h_> :P
<rick_h_> I like temporal rifts
<snap-l> OK, why was I not aware of wsdl2py?
<rick_h_> bah, netgear...can't...keep..._....up
<snap-l> I really, really fucking hate everything there is about WSDL and Java
<snap-l> the tools suck
<snap-l> the idea sucks
<snap-l> the implementation sucks
<snap-l> and, even better, this fucking thing can't handle fucking spaces in the file path
<snap-l> which is fucking AWESOME
<snap-l> this being axis2's wsdl importer
<snap-l> er, wsdl2java confuckulator
<snap-l> Sweeth ahiry cheeseballs of death on a cracker, it appears to work.
<greg-g> rick_h_: gamerchick02 brousch PainBank HAH! It was already installed!
<gamerchick02> lol. glad you found it though, greg-g
<rick_h_> greg-g: yea, figured. Things don't work if it doesn't load
<rick_h_> all the sync stuff goes through there
<rick_h_> when google had a login issue with it you had to manually sync gmail and such
<rick_h_> couldn't install new apps, was a mess
<greg-g> whoa, weird that it goes through talk
<brousch> whew, just blasted through a bunch of slides for my talk
<brousch> adding teh funny
<rick_h_> brousch: awesome!
<brousch> an hour is a long time!
<ptenhoopen> brousch:  Is it on dropbox this time? ;)
<brousch> yes
<jcastro> smoser: around?
<smoser> here
<jcastro> got time for a google hangout today? I have some Ec2 questions
<jcastro> it's not like time critical or anything
<smoser> you are so hip
<smoser> now is fine.
<jcastro> woo
<jcastro> ok invite sent
<jrwren> rick_h_: i just unboxed and plugged in a gigabit switch on my deak about 1hr ago.
<jrwren> turned off the wifi on these two computers :)
<jrwren> mmm... gigabit
<jcastro> smoser: ok, I am sitting in the thing waiting
<jcastro> have you used it before?
<smoser> trying
<smoser> sorry
<jcastro> hey buddy, I don't think it runs on AIX.
<smoser> and me sitting here with my power7
<smoser> where would i see your invite?
<smoser> ok. i think i'm joiing
<greg-g> man, this putting phone numbers in a new phone thing is tough
<greg-g> hopefully this is the last time, ever, I have to do this.
<snap-l> This is why you use Google Contacts. ;)
<greg-g> :P I have a whole ton of g-contacts, but no phone numbers in them. I also have a lot of people in my phone who I have never emailed, so I have to create new contacts in gmail
<greg-g> (in my old phone, that is)
<greg-g> I wish google's contact app had a "limit to only those who have phone numbers" switch
<greg-g> oh, hah!
<gamerchick02> that would be nice, greg-g
<greg-g> it dos
<gamerchick02> it does?
<greg-g> yep, first setting, actually :)
<greg-g> on "Display Options"
<jcastro> rick_h_: I can't seem to be able to figure out how to raise and lower the height of the thing
<PainBank> greg-g: sorry for late reply, but I thought I had mentioned Talk should be a  default installed item.  meh.
<PainBank> anyone heard of Verante linux?
<greg-g> PainBank: yeah you may have, but I didn't believe you before :)
<snap-l> Would someone please just buy out Oracle?
<gamerchick02> no, but i have a bacon haiku: http://gamerchick02.tumblr.com/post/8186962015/smelling-like-bacon-the-bacon-is-now-finished
<brousch> rick_h_: identity thief! http://dl.dropbox.com/u/101667/ben-rousch-gis.png
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-29
<jjesse> when did the history channel stop being about actual history?
<jjesse> see my current g+ rantings about this
<Blazeix> back whenever Deadliest Catch and Ice Road Truckers started
<Blazeix> then it sort of collapsed into ghost stories
<jjesse> this one is about how aliens caused an ice age to get rid of the dinosaurs, impregnated humans and jesus was an alien
<brousch> snap-l: ug, this nanowar music is horrible
<brousch> i hates it
<rick_h_> brousch: Error (404)
<rick_h_> jjesse: about a year ago
<rick_h_> jcastro: to raise it you press in on the round button of the arm at the joint
<rick_h_> when you press it in, the arm will swing free and you can move it in stock increments
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> I must seriously be weak
<rick_h_> this is what it doesn't give for the more expensive onces
<rick_h_> it only moves in set amounts and only so far
<rick_h_> yea, you've got to press them in
<jcastro> man
<jcastro> I might need to take the monitor off
<jcastro> and hammer it
<rick_h_> well, just lift on it
<jcastro> even pulling up and mooshing it with all my strength
<rick_h_> so the weight of the monitor isn't on it
<rick_h_> once you get it on one you'll do it
<rick_h_> it took me a few my first time if I recall
<brousch> hm, dropbox is misbehaving
<rick_h_> I was doing stuff like turning the monitor
<rick_h_> so that moving the two sing arms added/reduced some vertical levels
<rick_h_> there's some room to tweak
<jcastro> yeah
<jcastro> I got it on the small ones
<jcastro> it's the 24 inch monster that's giving me heartache
<jcastro> I might need to wait for jill so I don't overcrush something
<brousch> rick_h_: try it now
<jcastro> feels like a 2 person job
<rick_h_> ah yea, isn't it limited to 23"
<rick_h_> 24 might be stretching those limits I guess
<rick_h_> brousch: wtf?!
<rick_h_> brousch: you RT me too much :P
<rick_h_> make up your own posts :P
<brousch> hah
<jcastro> rick_h_: oh sonofa.... my FPW weighs 22 lbs
<jcastro> This whole time I was worried about jill's 23 being too heavy but it's fine
<rick_h_> jcastro: ah, crazy
<jcastro> AHA!
<jcastro> the new 24 inch awesome dell is only .... 8.73 pounds!
<jcastro> I think it's obvious what needs to be done here
<jcastro> http://www.slashgear.com/dell-ultrasharp-u2412m-24-inch-ips-display-sells-for-399-26167465/
<jcastro> you saw this right?
<rick_h_> no, missed that. I was checking for a 22" ultrasharp though
<rick_h_> but they weren't ips and had bad reviews
<jcastro> I have the 22's
<jcastro> they're nice side panels
<rick_h_> I miss my good 20" ultrasharp I had, best looking display ever
<jcastro> not something I would want as my main panel
<rick_h_> meh, they're all 1920
<jcastro> I with with FPW for my main panel, and the cheaper E series ones for the side panels since they were like 200 bucks
<rick_h_> so I'd prefer 21/22" at 1920 vs 24/27
<jcastro> well, it's not my fault display manufactures stopped giving a shit
<jcastro> HDTV. :(
<rick_h_> yea, no shit
 * rick_h_ grumbles about the res I had on my old 21" CRT
<snap-l> brousch: Sorry that you didn't like Nanowar.
<brousch> np
<jcastro> rick_h_: they make a more heavy duty arm for bigger monitors right?
<rick_h_> jcastro: I'm not sure, I don't think in this model
<jcastro> rick_h_: ok I might move that one back to a stand in the meantime
<snap-l> brousch: Some of the more popular CC metal I have to wonder about sometimes
<snap-l> seriously, some folks have som estrange taste in music
 * snap-l waits for someone to point the finger back at him. ;)
<rick_h_> heh, I wasn't going to say it
<snap-l> Although i went to Flipside last weekend and couldn't name half of their metal bands
<jjesse> this histroy show is epic
<snap-l> jjesse: You must tell me what this is
<jjesse> ancient aliens: the misson
<snap-l> FUCK YEAH
<snap-l> Fucking cook central
<jjesse> this is the GREATEST F#%()A#&%#% SHOW EVAR
<jjesse> new episode at 10pm helllllll yeah
<snap-l> So this is a new series, then
<jjesse> apparently?
<jjesse> I learned a lot tonight, Jesus was an alien raised after the humans killed him by alien technology
<jjesse> native americans had sex w/ aliens to create humans
<jjesse> and ancient crystal skulls contain gigabytes of data that when you put all 13 together form some kickass computer
<snap-l> Wow, they pulled out the stops
<jjesse> its epic
<jjesse> wonder where i can get a degree in ancient astronomy theroy
<jjesse> theory
<snap-l> The ones that I've seen say that if you filled one of the great pyramids with some gas, it'll act as some kind of flashlight
<jjesse> this was was way better
<snap-l> I think you just apply to BSU
<snap-l> Bull Shit University
<jjesse> its been since 8pm
<snap-l> Yeah, it's total crackpot nonsense.
<jjesse> if you have history channel you should put it on
<snap-l> We've been watching it on Netflix
<jjesse> awesome cowboys shot at an alien ship in texas
<jjesse> epic
<snap-l> I wouldn't directly pay for this shit.
<jjesse> its on in the hotel tonight
<jrwren> i'd like a 19" or 20" if its just 1920x1080
<jrwren> 3 of those should be good.
<jjesse> do you guys know about the "zoo hypothesis"
<jjesse> apparently aliens are observing us like we observe animals in a zoo
<jrwren> it explains how obama fucked up so much. they made him do it.
<jjesse> damn those aliens
<jjesse> dude Jonah was trapped in a whale shapped vessel, not an actual whale
<jjesse> that explains so much
<greg-g> man, working two jobs isn't always all it's cracked up to be :)
<jjesse> snap-l i bet you can't wait for this season to show up on netflix
<snap-l>  oh  yeah
<jjesse> in case you didn't know aliens brought the moon and parked it in orbit
<greg-g> the things you learn on IRC
<snap-l> Sounds like it goes fulll-bore into crazytown.
<greg-g> and my mom said it wasn't good for anything
<jjesse> some idiot just said the moon was like george lucas's death stra
<jjesse> death star
<_stink_> that would spice things up, at least
<jjesse> yeah it would be awesome
<snap-l> Sometimes I wonder if their "Research" materials are Alternate History gamebooks
<jjesse> they are now referencing the cowboys and aliens movie that comes out friday
<snap-l> http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG30-6521
<snap-l> http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG31-2001
<greg-g> rick_h_: which one is your g-voice, 810 or 248?
<brousch> ah, crap, i just read half of my talk at out-loud speed, and it took 10 minutes
<brousch> i'll have to talk slow
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> ive had thr same oroblem
<TeamXlink> Whats better, 2.5gb RAM Dual Channel @ 400mhz or 3gb RAM Non-Dual Channel @ 400mhz or 3gb RAM Dual Channel @ 266mhz?
<TeamXlink> Which company has better Linux Driver support, ATI or NVidia, I'm not sure on the current status, but I know NVidia used to be the only one offering official Linux drivers, I'm unsure if that has changed or not.
<rick_h_> greg-g: 248 is my gvoice
<Wolfger> <3 Gvoice
<Wolfger> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<Wolfger> http://www.teefury.com/images/articles/1310254159_powerpig_side_art_02.jpeg
<greg-g> rick_h_: cool. I went through my old phone's phone book last night and transfer to g-contacts. all set to go now :)
<rick_h_> greg-g: awesome
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Everyone enjoy the light show last night?
<rick_h_> missed it
<rick_h_> didn't know it rained until this morning
<snap-l> We had a lot of lightning outside around 4am
<snap-l> Yay, the coffeepot is not affected. ;)
<rick_h_> yay
<Wolfger> enjoyed the show this morning
<Wolfger> oh, it would be horrible if a thunderstorm knocked out the coffee maker :-p
<snap-l> yes, yes it would have been
<snap-l> Wow, this ADP site for reporting time has an extremely hypnotic wait symbol
<snap-l> Changed over to Firefox, and apparently it isn't supported (but Chrome wasn't explicitly denied)
<Wolfger> <sigh>
<Wolfger> It's freaking 2011. Aren't we beyond "this site best viewed with" or "this site only viewable with" yet?
<snap-l> Yeah, have to use IE to access this site
<snap-l> Wow, this page is complete shit
<Wolfger> 'tis to be expected, when the page is browser-specific....
<snap-l> Thing sounds like a woodchuck with turrets when it loads
<snap-l> click click click click clikc
<Wolfger> a woodchuck... with turrets?
<Wolfger> Army-issue woodchucks.
<snap-l> turrettes?
<snap-l> turrreueetuetuettuureuttuetreuttts?
<Wolfger> Ah
<Wolfger> the swearing syndrome :-p
<Wolfger> was watching some comedian (Tosh?) who pointed out nobody ever has polite Turrettes (or however the hell you spell it). Nobody is ever afflicted with blurting out compliments.
<greg-g> that you know of, maybe they just "pass" in society and are actually really well liked by everyone
<snap-l> "And in conclusion... NICESHOES... I think that..."
<greg-g> :)
<nullspace> oh wow DoD released their own linux distro
<greg-g> but they might be violating the terms of the GPL
<greg-g> there's a link to download an iso, but no links to the source
<greg-g> </license nerd moment>
<jrwren> rofl.
<Wolfger> meh. Come back to me when you *know* they're violating the GPL
<snap-l> Wolfger: What's the difference?
<greg-g> Wolfger: ok, Lemme go ask for the source and when they don't respond, I'll let you know.
<snap-l> If you know it in your heart, it must be true
<jrwren> http://www.ubuntu.com/download <-- no link to the source.
<jrwren> :)
<greg-g> jrwren: :P true true
<snap-l> that seems to be the modus operandi for the OCD license community
<jrwren> if they have /usr/share/*/README with links the source, its GPL OK, right?
<greg-g> there's actually been a (OMG way too long) thread on debian-legal about whether or not torrenting .isos is violating the GPL
<jrwren> really?
<jrwren> how in the hell is that violating the GPL?
<greg-g> yeah, really.
<greg-g> :(
<greg-g> no source available
<jrwren> sounds like the fudtastic get voiced too much
<jrwren> b.s.
<jrwren> source is available.
<greg-g> so, debian has their own torrent server with all of the source code available as a torrent, but no one is downloading it
<jrwren> sounds like them fools need a dictionary
<greg-g> :)
<snap-l> Because nobody needs the source in that form
<jrwren> nor wants it.
<snap-l> Well, what's really stupid are the folks who think they "know better" and add nothing to the conversation
<snap-l> E-mail threads tend to go like this:
<snap-l> 1) Semi-plausible claim
<snap-l> 2) Several pokes, one of which might be right
<snap-l> 3) Several more semi-plausible claims
<snap-l> 4) Someone who knows from whence they speak weighs in
<snap-l> 5) Several "That's counterintuitive" statements
<snap-l> 6) Pissing contest over what's correct vs what's intuitive
<snap-l> 7) Personal attacks
<snap-l> 8) Hitler
<jrwren> lol. excellent
<greg-g> that reminds me of this post from joey hess: http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/thread_patterns/
<snap-l> greg-g: That is awesome.
<snap-l> Yeah, I love the blindingly obvious ones
<snap-l> usually followed by the "Would you please not 'Reply All'"
<snap-l> JoDee had one of those go viral at Macomb
<Wolfger> awesome
<Wolfger> snap-l: I think you should make an "8 stages of mailing list threads" blog post.
<snap-l> Went from some innocent, shouldn't-have-been-posted-to-this-list to several people claiming being on this list was a right of passage to work there, and if they didn't want to be on the list, maybe they sholdn't work there.
<Wolfger> preferably with solid examples :-)
<snap-l> Eventually causing the admins to employ the nuclear option.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Bah, no, thanks.
<Wolfger> drop rocks on it from low earth orbit
<greg-g> we just had an epic one at the U today, someone sent a message to EVERY SINGLE list they were one to say "I'm updating my email address, but change it for me please!" They emailed THOUSANDS of U-M Medical school staff and first responders, and then 4 others replied with similarly stupid responses.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Your wish is my command: http://decafbad.net/2011/07/29/the-8-stages-of-e-mail-threads/
<snap-l> greg-g: yep
<greg-g> hah, you're quick snap-l
<Wolfger> he went from "bah, no thanks" to "here you go" in a very short amount of time
<greg-g> well, the solid examples part is still a "bah, no thanks" :)
<Wolfger> ah, I see
<Wolfger> I'm amazed I can still read snap-l's blog... Paul Graham's blog is blocked now. As is webchat.
<snap-l> Wolfger: Well, Paul Graham's blog gets people to think about what they're doing with life
<snap-l> I'm sure Zen Habits is also blocked, as is 43 folders.
<greg-g> not the best thing to have your employees doing
<Wolfger> very bad for corporate moral, true
<Wolfger> s/moral/morale/ even :-p
<snap-l> Also "I think we should rewrite our whole infrastructure in LISP" is not what you want to hear on a friday morning.
<Wolfger> I don't care what language they use (please, god, not Java), they just need to rewrite the infrastructure.
<Wolfger> and the structure, and the exostructure too :-p (am I just making shit up now? I bet there is an exostructure...)
<greg-g> sure, like ants
<brousch> i'm starting to freak out
<brousch> i don't think i'll have enough material to fill an hour
<jjesse> so take questions :P
<brousch> it's not really a technical talk
<brousch> i cannot rely on questions
<jjesse> animated gifs?
<brousch> i am making heavy use of them already ;)
<rick_h_> brousch: don't have to fill an hour
<rick_h_> really 40min
<brousch> i think i'll have 30mins
<rick_h_> so you need 10min :)
<rick_h_> sounds like demo time
<brousch> heh
<brousch> gotta finish the main part first ;)
<brousch> but yeah, i could throw up some flask-based projects
<Wolfger> stall a bit at the beginning and take questions at the end. Easy way to kill 10 minutes in two smaller chunks. :-)
<jrwren> what are you presenting?
<ColonelPanic001> http://mashable.com/2011/07/29/internet-explorer-iq/
<ColonelPanic001> well, that's not surprising
<brousch> jrwren: mostly my experience discovering python and django
<snap-l> brousch: Wrost case, you let people out early.
<Wolfger> and if they leave early because they had no questions, that's on them :-D
<snap-l> Worry about the content, not about the space
<Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/96933/why-did-git-get-so-much-hype-while-others-dont
<rick_h_> Wolfger: that thread is as good as the "Why do developers still use archaic editors from a command line when better tools exist?" thread
<Wolfger> :-)
<Wolfger> I wasn't even aware that a Git vs. Mercurial holy war existed.
<jrwren> it doesn't.
<jrwren> there are jihadists that will assure you that a war between christianity and islam is happening right now.
<jrwren> similar insanity
<Wolfger> jrwren: clearly it does exist, as evidenced by that thread (even if it never existed prior)
<rick_h_> it's not so much a git vs Hg, but more a "My tool rocks! your tool sucks!"
<Wolfger> likewise, Christian and Muslim extremists killing people for religious reasons are proof that a holy war is going on... just with very limited "armies"
<jrwren> no, a war doesn't exist just because 2 people say it does.
<Wolfger> rick_h_: Right. Just like vim vs emacs.
<rick_h_> meh, at this point I think most of that is just to keep our old jokes alive
<Wolfger> "war" is a loose term in the computer world.... no killing involved (so far as I know)
<rick_h_> for me it's more about using vim/emacs gets you more respect than eclipse
<rick_h_> etc
<Wolfger> yeah, well, you're fighting the cli vs gui holy war :-)
<rick_h_> I run gvim :P
<Wolfger> *gasp*
<Wolfger> What I really want to know is, why does stackexchange even host "Programmers" when they never really discuss code at all? It should be "Geek Philosophy" based on the typical content.
<Wolfger> StackOverflow is programmers fo' realz
<Wolfger> and consequently often over my head, which I why I read the drivel on Programmers :-p
<jrwren> can I use vmbuilder to install oneric ?
<jrwren> lol
<jrwren> StackOverflow is over your head?
<jrwren> you should read more there then. its a great place to learn.
<jrwren> why doesn't help.ubuntu.com list the stackexchange site?
<Wolfger> jrwren: A lot of it is, yeah. I'm actually picking out Python questions now since I'm making an effort to learn Python.
<jrwren> is dive into python not a good learning tool anymore?
<Wolfger> I'm sure it's just as good as it ever was.
<Wolfger> It's one tool in the box
<Wolfger> Hell, I just *answered* a question on StackOverflow :-)
<jcastro> jrwren: just use testdrive
<jcastro> for your vmbuilder question
<jrwren> jcastro: thanks.
<jrwren> i didn't know about it.
<jrwren> knowing is more than half the battle
<jcastro> GI JOE!
<jcastro> jcastro: I'll write up an answer after lunch
<jcastro> I don't think vmbuilder's been updated
<jcastro> + testdrive is the way to go, it'll auto zsync your ISOs and just fire them up in KVM automagically
<jcastro> jrwren: you did it wrong
<jcastro> you should have posted that edit as your own answer
<jcastro> and then accept it
<Wolfger> greg-g: zomg, emacs violated GPL!!!one1!
<Wolfger> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/07/29/1445252/Emacs-Has-Been-Violating-the-GPL-Since-2009?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
<Wolfger> Ugh. Sorry, that's a wretched URL paste.
 * jcastro plonks jrwren, yo, pay attention
<jrwren> jcastro: yeah, i forget the SO rules WRT answering your own Question
<jrwren> you want me to update it?
<jcastro> jrwren: yeah
<jcastro> answering your own question is totally fine!
<jcastro> I'll fix up your answer
<jcastro>  I need you to post it first tho
<jrwren> updated.
<jrwren> anybody have any broken PS2 Keyboard lying around?
<Wolfger> you wouldn't rather have a working one?
<Wolfger> regardless, I think mine was trashed/yardsaled/donated some time ago.
<jrwren> yeah, I should find a computer recycle place.
<jrwren> I just want the connector to cut off
<Wolfger> but I'll look this weekend and see if I do still have it
<Wolfger> what do you want next, a 5.25" floppy drive?
<Wolfger> :-)
<nullspace> 8" nothing less
<ColonelPanic001> that's what sh... nevermind
<nullspace> nice
<Wolfger> rofl
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001++
<ColonelPanic001> \o/
 * Wolfger has never even seen an 8"...
<ColonelPanic001> I'll show you sometime
<Wolfger> Bring it Penguicon and show it off in the lobby.
<jrwren> i think i have a 5.25" aruond.
<jrwren> no... maybe no.
<ColonelPanic001> excellent idea
<jrwren> ouch.  kvm segfaults when I connect to it with VNC :(
<Wolfger> ColonelPanic001: on the night of the masquerade, you can carry it around under a trench coat and ask everybody if they'd like to see your "8-incher"
<Wolfger> and if they say yes, whip it out
 * Wolfger considers maybe this is being stretched a bit thin
<ColonelPanic001> heh
<ColonelPanic001> that'd amuse me
<Wolfger> It's Friday. I'm stuck here for another 90 minutes-ish. I'm in "can't the weekend just START already?" mode.
<Wolfger> Already did my daily quota of Python skill building. Started getting overwhelmed with all the non-python crap I need to learn as well.
<Wolfger> the wx, the (possibly, haven't decided yet) sqlite....
<Wolfger> ...the twitter api....
<jrwren> i guess you know you are a real programmer when you scoff at the ease of learning those things.
<Wolfger> Well, I've already got a decent mock-up of my GUI done, when it occurs to me I haven't actually learned much at all about wx. I'm cut'n'pasting my way through it mostly.
<Wolfger> and I'm not satisfied with that
<Wolfger> It'd be nice if I could put together a code block without flipping back and forth to the internets for each line
<Wolfger> and everything (in the tutorials) has a -1 id passed to it, but nowhere does it explain why it's -1, or what that really means, and that annoys the crap out of me.
<Wolfger> if ID is always -1, why even bother having that parameter? That's 4 useless keystrokes per instance.
<rick_h_> party!
<rick_h_> hello from Ohio
<snap-l> Hello from PyOhio. :)
<nullspace> pfhhhhhhhh
<rick_h_> who let the java speak?
 * rick_h_ looks for the java mute button :P
<snap-l> Heh
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-30
<TeamXlink> How much of an upgrade is this: Intel SL6WG Pentium 4 3.20GHz Socket 478 512KB/800MHz when the current setup is this: Intel SL6WK Pentium 4 3.0 GHz Socket 478 512KB/800MHz ?
<greg-g> about 200 mhz
<brousch> anyone awake?
<snap-l> Just got up
<rick_h_> yea, party
<rick_h_> made my first slide change of hte day lol
<snap-l> Heh
<snap-l> That didn't take long. ;)
<rick_h_> no, just adding the github repo to a slide
<rick_h_> so nothing major
<brousch> rick_h_: it soun ds like the round room is our speaker's lounge
<rick_h_> brousch: yea, that's cool
<snap-l> Nice
<snap-l> not quite getting aspen yet
<snap-l> QUiet room today.
<snap-l> I think it's partially because PyOhio blocks IRC ports.
<snap-l> That and the rest of you are likely at Makerfaire.
<TeamXlink> For my next PC, I'm having full time Linux on it, I'm going to use it for gaming, should I choose NVidia or ATI, I've heard NVidia has better Linux support, what should I choose?
<snap-l> woo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2011-07-31
<rick_h_> party, sprint time!
<snap-l> W00000t
<rick_h_> snap-l: ping
<snap-l> rick_h_: pong
<rick_h_> nvm, posted. Was trying to recall the allura dev's name again
<rick_h_> man I'm so awful with names :/
<snap-l> Ah, OK
<snap-l> Have a great night!
<Team-Xlink> I need to get one of those plastic suction cup dart guns, so I can shoot the ants that crawl across the walls.
<snap-l> GOod morning
<snap-l> Team-Xlink: Those don't work very well.
<snap-l> Wow, tomorrow's weather forecast is 92F
<snap-l> Ugh.
<snap-l> Oh, this Microsoft commercial for the Microsoft Store is pathetic.
<snap-l> It's nice to know that Ubuntu isn't the only one that has trouble during presentations. ;)
<jrwren> snap-l: ping
<snap-l> jrwren: Pong
<jrwren> amiga is loaded in my trunk. lots of good floppies.
<jrwren> KB and mouse are there, although IIRC mouse needs some work.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-22
<rick_h> jcastro: any new word on juju/rackspace than this? http://askubuntu.com/questions/166102/how-do-i-configure-juju-for-deployment-on-rackspace-cloud
<rick_h> jcastro: https://twitter.com/jessenoller/status/355757374906183680 has me kind of curious
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> sweet, goldieblox in AMZ! http://www.amazon.com/Goldie-Blox-The-Spinning-Machine/dp/B00BCXU3PQ/
<snap-l> Good morning
<snap-l> Man I want to go back to bed
<rick_h> +1
<rick_h> neither the body nor mind are willing today
<rick_h> but big day today...going to be a fun ride
<snap-l> Where are you headed?
<rick_h> heh, it's a sit at my desk and watch the show kind of ride
<rick_h> but my 'shed' arrives today as well so party party
<rick_h> get to build something
<snap-l> Ah, so more of a "let things wash over me"
<snap-l> What sort of shedpocalypse hath thou wrought?
<rick_h> heh
<brousch> Knowing rick_h, it's probably a airplane hangar
<rick_h> brousch: no, I had to scale back after getting the camper this year
<rick_h> so it's a small plastic thing big enough for lawn gear and about it
<rick_h> but getting the lawn gear out of the garage will be yay!
<snap-l> plus alternate sleepnig arrangements whenever rick_h is in the doghouse. :)
<rick_h> that's what the camper is for :P
<rick_h> so long guest room!
<snap-l> Assuming Erica doesn't change the locks. :)
<rick_h> psh, she can barely figure out how to unlock it :P
<rick_h> on our second trip she went to the camper and came back with the keys in hand saying she couldn't get it to unlock
<rick_h> there are two locks on there and they move in different directions so she kept unlocking one and locking the other
<snap-l> If it's the camper locks I remember, they were all keyed differently and had a tumbler mechanism that was mostly a suggestion
<snap-l> You had a better chance of picking the lock than of using the proper key.
<rick_h> woot! https://jujucharms.com/
<rick_h> it's alive!
<snap-l> rick_h: Congratulations!
<rick_h> and there's one bad config value breaking it and we're all chickens with our heads cut off yay
<snap-l> Of course. :)
<snap-l> It wouldn't be a launch without someone forgetting the baking powder.
<rick_h> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mspwQfoYQks for a video put together showing it off
<jrwren> rick_h: congrats.
<rick_h> once you can get past the keyboard typing in the video :/
 * rick_h gets some popcorn to read the comments section http://techcrunch.com/2013/07/22/ubuntu-smartphone-canonical/
<smoser> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge/x/4032960
<smoser> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge
<rick_h> yea, I was suckered in and signed up
<rick_h> wasn't planning on it, but the video talked me into it :)
<rick_h> but clearly the updated juju-gui release is a MUCH bigger story than some fancy hardware stuff :P
<rick_h> #poorreleasedateplanning
<smoser> rick_h, so you put in $600 ?
<smoser> i'm tempted
<rick_h> smoser: yea
<rick_h> smoser: if they don't reach the goal it gets refunded and I'm lokoing to buy a new phone anyway
<brousch> geez
<rick_h> I'm getting off verizon when my contract expires in Dec and I want to go the 'buy your own phone' route
<brousch> Can you run Android on it if ubuntu phone sucks?
<rick_h> brousch: yes...yes you can
<brousch> OK
<rick_h> which is part of what convinced me to go ahead and do it
<rick_h> I'll be hoping for some big time xda love
<greg-g> heh
<greg-g> wait, I can fund it, get my phone, then return it within 28 days for a refund?
<greg-g> "What warranties apply to the Ubuntu Edge?"
<snap-l> rick_h: You might want to check that
<snap-l> indiegogo is not kickstarter. There's an option to keep the money if it's not funded.
<snap-l> "This campaign will only receive funds if at least $32,000,000 is raised by Wed 21 Aug 11:59PM PT."
<snap-l> n/m
<rick_h> snap-l: but that option is not in effect. It states it on the site
<jrwren> the thing about charms is they are overly complex for my use case. all I really want is cloud-init wiht some extra help.  :)
<brousch> Will Edge work on Ting?
<rick_h> probably not, it's dual LTE and not sure what's behind it after that.
<brousch> expected delivery in May 2014
<rick_h> though sprint is deploying lte now so who knows by the time it comes out next year
<brousch> That's a long time in phone years!
<snap-l> I'd be highly surprised if it was on Sprint
<snap-l> I think Verizon is the only domestic option at the moment
<snap-l> Honestly I'll be surprised if this funds at all
<rick_h> att/t-mobile
<snap-l> When did they sign up?
 * snap-l is out of the loop apparently
<rick_h> they didn't but tech wise it should work
<rick_h> and CAG does not mean anything about phone working
<snap-l> I see no mention of the FCC on this page. That concerns me
<greg-g> oh come on, snap-l, just trust Canonical FOR ONCE!
<snap-l> Keeping my mouth shut and waiting for miracles.
<snap-l> I've been proven wrong before. :)
<rick_h> heh, well odds are it won't happen and this is a cheap publicity stunt. If it does go through, then unique toys for some people
<snap-l> http://www.amazon.com/review/R2VAJTQQ1CV86X/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00D624AQO&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=
<rick_h> lmao
<rick_h> I suppose 'functional' is a loaded word for non-programmers
<snap-l> Apparently.
<rick_h> lmao, and of course we deploy without setting the deploy config flag. #LaunchFail
<rick_h> man, what a Monday
<greg-g> hah
<rick_h> 1) Deploy months of work ...check
<rick_h> 2) Get completely overshadowed by other company release ... check
<rick_h> 3) Find giant bug in newly deployed production ... check
<rick_h> 4) Find out production wasn't deployed correctly and make everyone download 275 requests to load a single web page ... check
<greg-g> lol
<greg-g> you sound like WMF!
<rick_h> woot!
 * rick_h gives WMF a hug
<snap-l> Whaddya mean we left debugging on?
<rick_h> yep
<rick_h> gotta love it
<rick_h> now where's my EOD so I can get myself a post-release beverage?
<snap-l> This is why I hate deploy events that are only once a perioud (month, etc)
<greg-g> weekly ftw!
<rick_h> yea, well after this it'll be weekly I think? Maybe more. but we're doing a bit swtich, moving two domains around, etc
<rick_h> so it's a big initial 'release'
 * greg-g nods
<snap-l> I like the "as needed, but everyone gets on the horn and things get worked out"
<snap-l> But yeah, once a week is a good target
<snap-l> but if stuff is broken, or suboptimal, release as needed
<rick_h> yea, we try to follow a 'release when there's something that's done' model vs regular schedule
<rick_h> that way we're not rushing to hit a release window and each little feature lands as it's ready to go for prompt feedback/etc
<greg-g> for smaller projects that makes sense, for MediaWiki, we have to release more often and force people to use "feature config flags" to disable code that isn't ready for prime time but needs to be tested
<greg-g> too many moving pieces
<rick_h> yea, we do that as well
<rick_h> https://jujucharms.com/:flags:/serviceInspector for instance
<rick_h> but once the flag is cleared to be removed, we'll update production that day vs waiting for release day
<rick_h> kind of idea
<snap-l> At least it isn't Chrysler where you had one day a month to launch (5:00am on x Thursday of the month)
<snap-l> and if stuff broke, it got backed out
<snap-l> (This was FieldConnect, and it sucked)
<snap-l> But it was also the direct result of people promoting shit code that caused Dealer Connect to go boom (and was subsequently escalated all the way to the CEO)
<rick_h> who asked wtf 'code' was :P
<snap-l> rick_h: I believe the terminology was irrelevant, and the conversation went a little like this "fix yo shit"
<snap-l> Probably in a very jaunty German accent
<snap-l> Mock me
<snap-l> For I am mocking objects, poorly. :)
<rick_h> hah
<jrwren> 275 reqs!!!
<jrwren> that is a lot even to bundle up
<rick_h> well, ends up around 70 total but 1/3 of those are the same .svg image file
<rick_h> https://jujucharms.com/fullscreen/ and check out the network graph. Should hit nicely after first load
<rick_h> still some more combining can happen, so it's not perfect yet
<greg-g> holy shit, when I opened the ubuntu edge campaign this morning it was $70k, I think, now it is $765k!
<rick_h> yea, two people have signed up for the $10k phone
<greg-g> fuck
<jrwren> still, $14M$ is A LOT
<rick_h> yea
<snap-l> Apparently Canonical is 3.1% of the way towards funding this Edge
<snap-l> That's further than I thought they'd be
<snap-l> Though it'll be interesting to see if the momentum will last past the initial push
<brousch> It'll take 30 days for corporations to get approval
<snap-l> http://theneologist.bandcamp.com/album/the-greatest-heavy-metal-cover-album-in-the-galactic-history-of-the-planetary-solar-system-2
<snap-l> http://motorheadtribute.bandcamp.com/album/motorhead-tribute-india
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-23
<snap-l> Good morning
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> lmao, detroit bit on the daily show is great
<jrwren> i'm gonna stab cloud-init in the face. it handles 1000 cases, and I can't figure out how to make it handle mine :)
<jrwren> oh shit, as I type this, I think I just realized how to handle it.
<rick_h> add smoser to add support for it
<jrwren> sorry smoser
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h> ask that is
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> nah, I'm not gonna ask him for my 1 stupid 1-off
<rick_h> or he'll tell you why you're wrong and how to do it right :P
<smoser> i'm curious.
<smoser> what was wrong ?
<jrwren> i have a command in place which uses user-data already. i was trying to wrap my head around how to use both.
<jrwren> i think easy thing is to move that current user-data to cloud-config which writes a file
<jrwren> then just check for the file before pulling meta user-data in my current script.
<jrwren> fallback can be user-data
<jrwren> i'm slow. it just wasn't clicking in my brain for a while there.
<jrwren> too much C code lately had me in a different mode :p
<jrwren> smoser: btw, cloud init is splendid.
<smoser> "command in place"
<smoser> meaning its already in your image ?
<smoser> oh. i think i understand now. yeah.
<smoser> you coudl also make that "command" be a part-handler
<jrwren> i'd have to patch cloud-init to do that.
<jrwren> i want it to work today. maybe even yesterday (12.04) :)
<smoser> jrwren, why would you have ot patch cloud-init ?
<smoser> you can send a part-handler in user-data
<jrwren> that is waht I plan on doing
<jrwren> but there are only so many part-handlers, right?
<smoser> no.
<jrwren> oh, python code.
<smoser> they're loaded on being seen
<jrwren> i was avoiding that.
<smoser> and applied.
<smoser> only one part handler can claim a given type
<jrwren> right, at first i was looking for a "write file" type handler. in my case the old user-data is pretty small, I was just going to embed it into cloud-config runcmd
<jrwren> where the runcmd is going to be echo "THINGS" > FILE
<brousch> snap-l rick_h: You guys see the email from Karl Karston re: Pyohio?
<smoser> jrwren, i dont mean to offend you, but if you have MAC and virtualbox tendencies, this might help a bit (although i'm sure you would have figture dhtis out)
<smoser> http://ubuntu-smoser.blogspot.com/2013/07/using-ubuntu-cloud-images-on-virtualbox.html
<snap-l> Looks like Carl figured out his ride situation
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-24
<rick_h> brousch: yea, saw it but wasn't in a position to reply. Also not sure how schedules would match up and such tbh.
<rick_h> as snap-l says, if they can bus it for $100 from port huron then probably best way to go though I do feel bad saying so.
<rick_h> now if it was brousch, we'd drive out and pick him up :)
<rick_h> jrwren: pyohio?
<snap-l> If it was brousch we'd send him some nickels for paying his way via hitchhiking
<jrwren> jrwren: family reunion + maker fair instead of pyohio
<snap-l> bah bah bah
<rick_h> jrwren: booooooo
<jrwren> smoser: thanks for the tip. virtual box makes me feel dirty. I don't use it until absolutely necessary :)
<snap-l> You can use LXC. :)
<jrwren> not on MAC
<snap-l> Parallels. ;)
<jrwren> also crashes my mac.
<snap-l> VMware?
<jrwren> at least 7 does. and I feel bad being forced to upgrade to 8.
<jrwren> i should try latest fusion, I guess.
<rick_h> YES! our sprint t-shirt made it. I'm going to get booo'd in a couple of weeks.
<snap-l> I think you're running out of options.
<rick_h> too bad I couldn't get it pre-pyohio
<snap-l> rick_h: sprint T-shirt?
<snap-l> You designed a T-shirt?
<jrwren> my choice option is to not use VMs
<rick_h> http://teespring.com/sprint2013
<snap-l> jrwren: That's a poor option. :)
<rick_h> this was the best quote from the sprint last week
<snap-l> rick_h: I LOVE IT!
<snap-l> Bah,, can't do a V neck, though
<rick_h> heh, you won't notice the neck on it when you read it!
<jrwren> smoser: http://ubuntu-smoser.blogspot.com/2013/02/using-ubuntu-cloud-images-without-cloud.html  so could I boot a cloud image on physical server as sda and have nocloud on sdb ? o_O ?
<brousch_> I offered to pick up the video guy anywhere between Ann Arbor and Toledo
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> snap-l: got CHC plans?
<smoser> jrwren, yeah. you can. you could actually (i think) put a floppy disk in if you wanted.
<jrwren> awesome.
<jrwren> thanks smoser
<jrwren> i'm also thinking diskless nfsroot and how I'd do cloud-init with that, but I'm not actually going to be doing either of these things. :)
<smoser> jrwren, you can do it with seed dir for diskless nfsroot
<smoser> that disk you attach, if you can manage to populate /var/lib/cloud/seed, it is the same.
<smoser> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cloud-init-dev/cloud-init/trunk/files/head:/doc/examples/seed/
<jrwren> ah, thanks smoser
<snap-l> rick_h: I don't believe so.
<rick_h> snap-l: has been recruited to be a guinea pig to help me get the bookie install process setup pre-pyohio :)
<snap-l> Oh boy. :)
<rick_h> I know righ!
<rick_h> right that is
<rick_h> now CHC is even MORE exciting
<snap-l> I'm a fountain of piddling myself with excitement
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> piddling...
<brousch1> vagrant
<brousch1> rick_h: I don't see bookie on http://pyohio.org/sprints/
<rick_h> brousch1: yea, I've got to get my act together. Too busy traveling and biulding a shed lately. Hopefully make some progress at CHC tonight
<rick_h> also need to see where they ended up having the things. The mailing list wasn't a sure-fire bet
<brousch1> Email says at the grinder place. Same as last year?
<brousch1> I'm poking them for a Sunday morning sprint too
<brousch1> It sucks to wake up at 6AM and wander around until Noon
<rick_h> heh
<brousch1> Right?
<brousch1> Blackwell breakfast buffet sprinting?
<rick_h> woot
<rick_h> new nexus 7 announcement http://www.youtube.com/google
<greg-g> wait, I thought we were hot for Edge?!
<greg-g> also, bad timing :)
<rick_h> we are, I've ordered one of those...N7 I gave to my wife and she never uses
<rick_h> I should sell that, anyone want an old N7?
<rick_h> and doh, I should have sold it weeks ago before the new one came out
<jrwren> I'd love an old N7.
<jrwren> $100 ok?
<rick_h> yep
<jrwren> sweet!
<jrwren> i'll come get it tonight :p
<rick_h> now come to pyohio and pick it up!
<rick_h> doh, failed at jrwen pyohio detour
<jrwren> no wai! family reunion+makerfair
<rick_h> android 4.3! /me hits reload over and over and over on my N10
<rick_h> oh hmm, chromecast...I can haz google video on my tv?
<rick_h> bah, but no offline and such
<rick_h> ooh, but youtube. like googletv but without a whole box
<rick_h> airplay for nexus tablets cool
<rick_h> tell me pricing info ktkx!
<jrwren> is this a live bcat?
<jrwren> i need to watch, I think
<rick_h> yea
<rick_h> so 4.3 has some airplay going on and the new netflix app supports controlling the airplay from your device, or you can take it over from another device
<rick_h> the old "wife starts video, leaves with her phone, I pick up my new N7 and take over video control"
<rick_h> so chromecast is running chromeos on a little hdmi/usb stick.
<rick_h> crazy to see chromeos there vs android
<greg-g> but, EDGE!
<rick_h> greg-g: already paid, now I have to wait 30 days to find out I can't have one...this is today's shiny!
<greg-g> :P
 * greg-g 's just trolling
<rick_h> http://www.oscon.com/oscon2013/public/content/video shuttleworth will be doing a presentation at oscon as well
<rick_h> should see some juju-gui stuff :)
<greg-g> oh man, that's probably get some more sign ups, smart timing that
<rick_h> bah, too many videos going at once and no productivity
<rick_h> heh, chromecast support from the chrome browser on your laptop
<rick_h> that's kind of cool
 * rick_h realizes it's something airplay probably did a year ago :/
<rick_h> hmmm, this might be cool for presentations. cast your web presentation from laptop browser to the projector
<rick_h> oh booo, works on windows, mac, chromos...no linux mention
<rick_h> mark is on now at link ^^
<brousch1> chromeos is linux!
<rick_h> $35 for chromecast
<rick_h> two ordered...go go go
<brousch1> That is interesting
<rick_h> it's crazy I've got RSS feed items right now about a live event that just happened
<brousch1> I often want to share a funny video with my wife and kid, so we huddle around the laptop or tablet
<jrwren> damn I'm a shitty coder.
<snap-l> Nuts, too slow on the N7. :)
<brousch1> $101!
<rick_h> woot! html5 love
<brousch1> rick_h: What are you watching?
<rick_h> mark's keynote at oscon
<jrwren> www.youtube.com/google
<jrwren> live stream
<jrwren> wait, WHAT?
<rick_h> http://www.oscon.com/oscon2013/public/content/video
<rick_h> I linked it, read people :P
<brousch1> oh
<rick_h> he's talking the phone, html5 sdk, phone sdk beta, and heading to juju/cloud and some juju-gui <3
<rick_h> boom! juju-gui go go go
<jrwren> imma laugh if it crashes during is talk :p
<rick_h> we're over in our channel going "Woot! it loaded!"
<rick_h> lots of nerves
<jrwren> i considered juju for what I'm working on, but I think I can do all I need wiht cloud init.
<jrwren> maybe not though. maybe I should reconsider juju.
<greg-g> g'dammit, a coworker just made me realize my chipped tooth is officially my first broken bone. That ain't hardcore at all!
<greg-g> also, at age 31, heh
 * greg-g doesn't count the shin splints in high school
<jrwren> teeth are not bones.
<jrwren> http://www.livescience.com/33130-why-are-teeth-not-considered-bones.html
<greg-g> I prefer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth
<greg-g> but whew! I can still break a bone in a hardcore way!
<greg-g> :P
<jrwren> Blazeix: u r my coding hero of the day :p
<jrwren> greg-g: last bone i broke was due to a rage punch :(
<jrwren> that was 18 years ago
<greg-g> jrwren: eek
<greg-g> jrwren: I severely bruised my hand doing that a .... too soon ago.
<greg-g> bruised knuckle for a few (literally 3ish) weeks
<jrwren> eek, yes, and that is when i learned that I must control myself :)  it was a good lesson even if hard learned.
<greg-g> yeah :/
<rick_h> and by the way, today's wether is perfect. I want 9months of this and 3 of snow please kthx
<rick_h> it would be awesome if we could have a sub-90's pyohio this year.
<snap-l> rick_h: TOtally
<rick_h> and of course the two hottest days in the columbus 10 day forcast are friday and sat
<rick_h> still, at least not 90s
<snap-l> I'm in the living room for the first time in a long while
<snap-l> last week I was hiding in the bedroom around this time
<brousch1> snap-l: Do you want some Stardock tshirts? My sister gave me a bunch of them with symbols from some game I have never played
<brousch1> Damn. That new Nexus7 is a beast
<snap-l> brousch1: Sure. :)
<brousch1> snap-l: What about a VirtualBox OVF for the bookie sprint?
<brousch1> I'm going that route for my Kivy tutorial
<brousch1> I'm going to bring a buttload of USB hard drives to PyOhio for my tutorial. We could use them for bookie VM too
<rick_h> booo, amazon is out of the chromecase
<rick_h> ugh, aug 7th? so much for available today
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-25
<snap-l> brousch_: Ugh re: installing virtualbox for a demo
<Blazeix> jrwren: happy to be a hero :) the js chunking function?
<jrwren> Blazeix: yes. my brain just fails at that op.
<jrwren> i couldn't come up with it in python on my own.
<jrwren> but I can port that reading the js in 5min or less :)
<rick_h> hah, go Blazeix go!
<brousch> chromecase or chromecast?
<snap-l> howdy from our deck observatory
<snap-l> looking at stars with a glass of merlot
<brousch> Doesn't that make them all reddish?
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> Good morning
<brousch1> yessir
<snap-l> rick_h: Bookie isn't displaying bookmarks
<rick_h> snap-l: ruh roh
<rick_h> snap-l: it is here ?
<rick_h> anyone else not getting bookmarks on https://bmark.us ?
<snap-l> I think it was a caching issue
<snap-l> had problems getting one of the yui components
<snap-l> Seems to be working now
<snap-l> (flushed cache, etc)
<rick_h> snap-l: ah, might be. I did update the JS recenly and I forgot to increment the combo loader counter :(
 * rick_h goes to do that and restart
<rick_h> snap-l: thanks, I edited the wrong .ini file. Forgot it was moved from production.ini to bookie.ini a while ago. :/
<rick_h> snap-l: updated, shouldn't have any issues now
<snap-l> No worries. Glad it's a simple fix. :)
<snap-l> Those are aways the best / most frustrating. :)
<rick_h> yea, automate as much as possible, but still always some manual deploy steps to forget
<rick_h> bye the way, new coffee grinder rocks! best at home coffee I've made yet. Helped it was waking me up at 4:45am though.
<snap-l> I know you were hoping for something like "well, it's unfortunately a break-down in the current Turing model of computing where if we try to go beyond the boundaries of NP-Completeness it completely breaks down"
<snap-l> "Perhaps if we move to a trinary computational model and a modified Turing machine this won't be a problem"
<snap-l> "We'll have to wait for the mathematicians and theorists to catch up"
<snap-l> "Or it could be that I didn't carry the one"
<widox> rick_h: what grinder did you get?
<widox> also, bmark.us loads fine for me
<brousch1> snap-l: Did you guys make an OVA for Bookie sprints?
<snap-l> brousch1: No.
<snap-l> I tried installing in into a LXC container, and we ran out of time
<snap-l> Nuts. Looks like smtplib can't use a "with ..." statment because it doesn't implement __exit__.
<rick_h> brousch trying to get it to work sans vm in offline mpde but ran into a couple problem
<rick_h> widox got a kitchenaid monster grinder.
<brousch1> But wouldn't LXC containers limit it to only people running Linux?
<rick_h> brousch,well the idea was that all the python would be offlone/pprtable.
<rick_h> and bookie won't run on wondows anyway.
<rick_h> so issue is mac vs linux sysdeps
<snap-l> rick_h: maybe we could create a .ova image just in case
<snap-l> last resort sort of thing
<rick_h> snap-l: definitely.just running out of time.
<snap-l> I'll see if I can get one going tonight / tomorrow
<rick_h> will hopefullyget some time tonight
<rick_h> what time we zle
<snap-l> I took tomrrow off so I'll have some morning time
<rick_h> errr time are we leaving?
<snap-l> rick_h: Haven't discussed it. :)
<snap-l> But We're pretty open to anything after noon
<snap-l> (at least I think we are. :) )
<snap-l> standard disclaimers apply
<rick_h> why i bring it up :-P
<snap-l> void where prohibited or where it'll get me in trouble. :)
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> ok planning on leaving mu house noon then. lunch before or on the road?
<brousch1> I'm using lubuntu on my kivy vm. It's pretty small and snappy in a VM
<brousch1> install vim and gedit and it's useful for actually working
<jrwren> what is lubuntu?
<jrwren> lxde?
<rick_h> brousch: yea this never works out. im shootin fir 4g coverage.
<rick_h> weve got shared network access practiced at chc
<jrwren> i'm not sure if I've been using lubuntu or xubuntu, but it works great.
<jrwren> windows like keybindings under alt-space menu. I feel right at home.
<jrwren> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CloudInit write-mime-multipart link is broken :(
<snap-l> http://www.theonion.com/articles/print-dead-at-1803,33244/
<jrwren> smoser: you are my coding hero of the day. cloudinit is awesome.
<smoser> that means a lot to get a coding hero of the day award from one jrwren
<jrwren> lol
<smoser> the thing i'm most proud of recently (today) is that you can now use cloud-init on Microsoft Azure !
<smoser> :)
<brousch1> smoser: Seriously. You might as well retire now. You  have reached the pinnacle of excellence.
<jrwren> sweet. I just might do that sometime soon.
<snap-l> I <3 when tests make me rethink how I'm calling my code
<jrwren> test driven design at its finest.
<brousch1> Any clue what this means while pushing to github? http://pastebin.com/vSUZibWZ
<snap-l> Either you or github ran our of space
<brousch1> Now it worked
<brousch1> weird
<brousch1> I have plenty of space
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-26
<snap-l> rick_h: download-cache is missing sqlalchemy 0.8.2
<snap-l> Also if I do a make run it craps out because sqlalchemy 0.8.2 looks like it needs distribute > 0.6.24?
<snap-l> rick_h: Figured it out. Running make install && make run uses an old requirement in the egg
<rick_h> morning
<rick_h> ugh
<snap-l> morning
<brousch> GOOD MORNING PYOHIOANS
<rick_h> woot!
<brousch> and maker fairies
<brousch> I almost put my usb drives in a big U-M bag
<brousch> A cover of "Hole in the Sky" came on my Google Radio and nearly made me puke. turned out to be Metallica Live
<jrwren> damn, not write_files in cloud-init 0.6.3 in precise.
<jrwren> i wonder if there is an AMI with updated cloud-init backported
<jrwren> pyohio killed this channel :p
<_stink_> hah
<snap-l> heh
<snap-l> driving at the moment
<snap-l> well, as a passenger
<snap-l> Howdy from Ohio
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-27
<rick_h> party party
<snap-l> PyOhio FTW
<snap-l> Evening. :)
<snap-l> GOod morning
<rick_h> morning
#ubuntu-us-mi 2013-07-28
<snap-l> morning
<tony-smlr> good morning snap-l
<snap-l> howdy.
<snap-l> greets from pyohio
<tony-smlr> SMLR is Live now!  Video: http://youtu.be/rj7De8PN538
<snap-l> chdcking out in a bit
<snap-l> well, soon-ish
<derekv> what should I do with a laptop with 240m ram
<derekv> dad wants it for playing his XM radio (off the internet stream) which i'll just assume requires flash
<derekv> lubuntu?
<derekv> peppermint? puppy?
<derekv> or i could leave XP on but then there's just like antivirus etc
<derekv> oh, wait, ha
<derekv> this thing has no wifi
<derekv> i remember throwing away a handful of cardbus cards
<derekv> thinking "welp, no way I'll ever need these"
<derekv> nice, this thing has firefox installed.
<derekv> 2.0
<derekv> my basement basically looks like ghana
<derekv> its pretty depressing
<derekv> i found a p2 laptop, an unopened 1gbe purchased from microcenter, a palm pilot and serial sync dock
<derekv> some of the hilights
<derekv> an asus slot-1 motherboard
<derekv> no wifi adapters though
<derekv> i guess one costs about $10, $13 for a wireless-N
<derekv> "There has been a security breach on the Ubuntu Forums"
<derekv> ah here's the kicker
<derekv> it doesn't even boot from usb
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-21
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> Or afternoon, depending on your timezone. ;)
<rick_h__> just had lunch yay
<cmaloney> Figured as much
<cmaloney> Well this has been entertaining
<cmaloney> co-worker's machine is having trouble booting.
<brousch> Have you tried turning it ... oh, wait, nevermind
<waf> the best way to fix that is to pour orange juice into the fan vents.
<waf> (pulp-free orange juice, obviously)
<rick_h__> lol
<cmaloney> waf: I think the vending machine has some. Let me check
<cmaloney> I mean it works for curing colds so it might fix this virus.
<waf> cmaloney gets it
<brousch> rick_h__: Did you see your minions were looking for you on #bookie?
<cmaloney> What's even better is I ran Spinrite on it and it gave me a divide by zero error
<cmaloney> so I get to file a bug report with Steve Gibson
<rick_h__> brousch: yea, I'm a bad mentor
<brousch> Hah, you're about 100x better than I am
<cmaloney> rick_h__: I think you have a pretty solid excuse
<brousch> I figured your reminders might not have synced well to your new time zone
<cmaloney> "Sorry, I woke up British"
<cmaloney> How's the afternoon so far?
<rick_h__> evening
<rick_h__> party party
<gamerchick02> party party
<gamerchick02> had a beer with dinner. leftover pizza and beer for my birthday dinner woo
<gamerchick02> how's you, rick_h__?
<greg-g> sounds great
<greg-g> I'm drinking ginger kombucha, which is great actually (a local brewer)
<greg-g> it's on tap at a bar I was at last night, which is awesome
<gamerchick02> also ya'll be happy that i switched back to my ducky zero with blacks. forgot how sweet it was. i do love the brown switches in my max, however
<gamerchick02> sweet, greg-g
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: That's awesome
<gamerchick02> let's see, i've used blues, reds, browns, and blacks
<greg-g> taste the rainbow
<gamerchick02> reds are at work. blacks currently being used, and the browns are sitting on my shelf. blues are in the closet... still looking for a buyer for the razer board and mouse
<gamerchick02> love the rainbow
<gamerchick02> tis the spice of life!
<gamerchick02> :)
<brousch> Prius is in the driveway
<brousch> Got 70mpg on the ride home
<cmaloney> brousch: Get a baseball bat and play whack-a-hippie
<cmaloney> Oh, it's yours?
<cmaloney> Awkward.
<brousch> :P
<cmaloney> http://youtu.be/xd4UCMKicE4?list=UUSh2BOi2JjyLx36nJKXwi1g
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/lNlk8D - SINCERITY - Ambiguity - The Authority 9.23.14 - We Are Triumphant - YouTube
<gamerchick02> hee
<gamerchick02> i'd love to have a plugin hybrid but the cord won't reach to my apartment.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-22
<cmaloney> OMC 100 is uploading
<cmaloney> And finished uploading
<greg-g> nice
<greg-g> cmaloney: man, you get a lot of downloads
<greg-g> https://archive.org/search.php?query=%28collection%3Aopenmetalcast%20OR%20mediatype%3Aopenmetalcast%29%20AND%20-mediatype%3Acollection&sort=-downloads
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/PxZc8E - Internet Archive Search: (collection:openmetalcast OR mediatype:openmetalcast) AND -mediatype:collection
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yes
<rick_h__> pary
<rick_h__> party
<brousch> porta-potty pity party
<cmaloney> Sending in my Leopold for service and using my old Logitech keyboard.
<cmaloney> Talk about culture shock.
<cmaloney> greg-g: Not enough to get into the top 50 list. :)
<cmaloney> I'm not sure how some of these podcasts on archive.org get the numbers they get
<cmaloney> Only thing I can think of is some of them are search-engine hits that perpetuate themselves.
<cmaloney> eg: if you break into the top 50 you're guaranteed to get hits that will continue your momentum
<cmaloney> and many of my hits are via Metal Injection
<cmaloney> Would love to know how many "listeners" I have, but I'm sure I'll never know. :)
<brousch> Ask each listener to click a button on a web page
<cmaloney> brousch: Yeah, that would work. :)
<cmaloney> About as well as the donate button on my webpage.
<brousch> You have a web page?!
<cmaloney> Yeah, and a wishlist about the length of your arm. :)
<cmaloney> Afternoon and all
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<brousch> Going well. I finally have an interesting "main menu" for my talk
<rick_h__> yay, ssl cert renewed from UK
<rick_h__> glad they would let me verify via phone to my temp number
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<jrwren> greg-g: i finished reading Bringing up BeBe.  I liked it.
<jrwren> brousch: who is going to AO in AA? My friends run that office.
<brousch> Matt Behrens
<mrgoodcat> might actually make CHC this week
<mrgoodcat> w00w
<mrgoodcat> w00t i mean. can't even spell things that aren't words apparently
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-23
<mrgoodcat> ugh. might not be able to make it actually
<mrgoodcat> morning btw
<cmaloney> Yay power back on
<greg-g> cmaloney: welcome back to the 20th century
<cmaloney> Thanks
<cmaloney> It's good to be back.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-24
<cmaloney> Yo
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> So far
<cmaloney> That's good to hear. :)
<cmaloney> Evening and all that
<greg-g> 1 more hour, 1 more hour
<greg-g> grandparents (my parents) are in town
<cmaloney> Ah, fun
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-25
<cmaloney> Good morning
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: was it you that was talking about wanting a chromebook?
<mrgoodcat> my /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/hud/hud-service is pegging out my cpu at 97%. anybody have any idea what this is or what i can do about it?
<mrgoodcat> its also using more than 1GB of RAM
<brousch> cmaloney: Sprinting tonight? We're at Pillar
<rick_h__> party party pyohio
<rick_h__> you all enjoy your python fun and say hi to the regular folks for me!
<brousch> Catherine is showing how to sprint on Python standard lib
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-26
<jrwren_> mrgoodcat: i've decided I DON'T want a chrome book :)
<jrwren_> wow, its been quiet in here.
<brousch> No cmaloney. Slacker
<cmaloney> brousch: We just got back from dinner
<cmaloney> Had some really excellent food
<cmaloney> Will be sprinting tomorrow though
<brousch> We had free dinner at the sprint. And free beer.
<cmaloney> Nice
<cmaloney> JoDee had a "surprise"
<cmaloney> they literally didn't tell you what it was until you got it
<cmaloney> Anywho, off to bed. Tomorrow comes early.
<cmaloney> Good morning
<tony-smlr> SMLR Live E131 - Video: http://youtu.be/eqQ6lI53DX8 - Audio: http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/i4h2JT - SMLR Live Episode 131 - YouTube
<bookiebot> http://goo.gl/r4DLeN - application/ogg
<brousch> I think cmaloney is not really here. I talked to his wife, but have not seen hide nor hair of him.
<brousch> rick_h__: Eric Floer is very disappointed that you chose work over PyOhio
<brousch> Found him
<cmaloney> Bah
<rick_h__> brousch:  :(
<rick_h__> yea, it's really the only time we catch up these days
<rick_h__> and hello from the back seat of a metro cab on my way home :)
<rick_h__> hope pyohio is going well
<cmaloney> rick_h__: Hope th ride is going well
<cmaloney> Apparently Eric is going to Ohio Linuxfest
<jrwren_> what is python?  ;]
#ubuntu-us-mi 2014-07-27
<brousch> PyOhio is going very well
<brousch> New sprint place is awesome
<cmaloney> coolness
<brousch> cmaloney: What are you lameoids doing?
<cmaloney> I'm sitting in the lobby of the blackwell
<cmaloney> being lame
<brousch> There are about 30 people here now
<cmaloney> GOod morning
<brousch> yessir
<_jame_> morning...
<rick_h__> party
<rick_h__> or zzzzzz really
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney> Yeah, could definitely be Zzzzz
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-20
<cmaloney> Evening and all that
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How's the morning so far?
<rick_h_> heh don't ask :P
<cmaloney> But how will I know otherwise? ;)
<cmaloney> also: that good, eh?
<rick_h_> by hacking my email?
<rick_h_> we're having a lovely run
<jrwren> cmaloney: this may interest you: http://trixter.oldskool.org/2008/09/28/the-diskette-that-blew-trixters-mind/
<jrwren> its 7 yrs old, but oh well.
<rick_h_> with the icing that an email that dad in engaged for the 4th time
<cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah, the disk that has both C64 and IBM PC formatting on it?
<cmaloney> Very clever
<jrwren> cmaloney: yeah. cool.
<cmaloney> rick_h_: Oh no
<rick_h_> cmaloney:  and we're heading to VA for our annual visit in a few weeks
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-21
<wolf|work> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> Morning
<jrwren> look out 14min french press, here I come.
<brousch> 14min?
<jrwren> yes, steeped for 14min
<mrgoodcat> what is a good way to back up my OpenGPG key?
<mrgoodcat> i thought about printing it on paper but I really don't want to type it in by hand if i ever need it
<_stink_> i think ColonelPanic002_ prints his
<_stink_> mine is on a small USB key in another location.
<cmaloney> Paper tape
<jrwren> mrgoodcat: its password protected, right? copy it to usb key. put it in s3 bucket. use a very complex password.
<brousch> Print it as braille and have someone who knows braille re-type it for you
<mrgoodcat> lol
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: yes it is password protected
<greg-g> I know the content means nothing to those unfamiliar, but I love my team: http://tyler.zone/scap.gif
<jrwren> greg-g: TADA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> that was  hackathon project
<cmaloney> greg-g: That looks more like a BBS than a deployment. ;)
<greg-g> deploying SHOULD be a game!
<cmaloney> What is Scap3?
<greg-g> version 3 of scap, which stands for Sync Common All PHP.
<greg-g> it's growing into our general purpose deploy tool
<cmaloney> Ah, neat.
<greg-g> https://doc.wikimedia.org/mw-tools-scap/
<greg-g> that's documenting scap 2.0
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-22
<wolf|work> morning
<rick_h_> morn
<cmaloney> Good morning
<_stink_> yo
<greg-g> hi
<jrwren> hi
<wolf|work> hi hi hi
<rick_h_> hi hi
<rick_h_> hi
<cmaloney> hi hi
<cmaloney> http://hellohihi.com/about
 * greg-g is a trend starter
<wolf|work> Turns out when I was thinking "hi hi hi", the actual quote I was misremembering was "hey hey hey"
 * wolf|work was never actually a fan of Good Times
<cmaloney> What's Happenin'
<wolf|work> or What's Happening
<cmaloney> I don't associate hey hey hey with Good Times. :)
<wolf|work> or whatever show it was
<wolf|work> I get the quote wrong, I get the name of the show wrong.... I quit.
<cmaloney> you fail 70s TV references
<cmaloney> please turn in your child of the 70s / 80s / 90s/ 00s/ 10s card.
<cmaloney> Congratulations, you can now adult freely.
<wolf|work> Noooooooooooo
<wolf|work> It was just that one show (those two shows?) that I never really watched. I still love the 70's!
<wolf|work> Twiki. Starbuck was a guy. Michael J Fox was a teenager.
<wolf|work> Jo was hotter than Blair, even though she wasn't supposed to be.
<cmaloney> http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/198c1d4f-a796-4b7d-ba11-d6f32fff9ff1/ec686b51-d5ad-4177-8ea0-3a6c32450b81.jpg
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-23
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h_> morn
<wolf|work> it'll be a good morning tomorrow
<cmaloney> Heh
<cmaloney>  Have to take my dad-in-law to the eye doctor tomorrow
<cmaloney> so woo hoo. :)
<rick_h_> woo
<wolf|work> My day will hopefully be better than that.
<wolf|work> but at any rate, I get to sleep in and work barefoot
<cmaloney> nice
<cmaloney> I involuntarily slept in this morning
<cmaloney> woke up at 8:30 and managed to get dressed / showered / shaved and in to work by 9:40
<cmaloney> shaved-ish
<rick_h_> bwuhaha https://youtu.be/T7dEftrfq5g?t=86 successful fishing night!
<rick_h_> cmaloney: :P late night last night?
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> Oh, re: sleeping in?
<rick_h_> cmaloney: "in to work by 9:40"
<rick_h_> yea
<cmaloney> Nah, it's just been really good sleeping weather
<rick_h_> sorry, been on calls so I'm a very out of sync conversationalist
<cmaloney> That's alright
<cmaloney> I'm not quite in sync either
<cmaloney> Skipped CHC last night to try to catch up on home-related foo
<rick_h_> all caught up?
<cmaloney> Mostly.
<cmaloney> Got what I set out to accomplish completed.
<cmaloney> https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10969223 <- Scroll downl to see if your address is listed.
<greg-g> all of ours are!
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> cmaliney, did you get your Pebble Time?
<gamerchick02> cmaloney even. i can't type. did you get your pebble time and what do you think?
<cmaloney> I got it and I <3 it
<gamerchick02> :)
<cmaloney> Only mild disappointment is the backlight does wash out towards blue.
<gamerchick02> what's the most functionality you get out of it?
<cmaloney> But that's a function of the color LCD
<gamerchick02> it's a epaper screen
<cmaloney> gamerchick02: Well, obviously showing me the time
<gamerchick02> LOL
<cmaloney> But beyond that it does notifications and controls my music on my phone
<gamerchick02> i have a watch on my wrist that doesn't require charging to do that. what else do you have it set up for?
<cmaloney> One downside is the bezel is easy to scratch
<gamerchick02> nice
<gamerchick02> eee
<gamerchick02> what are you doing with your old one?
<cmaloney> Repurposed with family (sis in law and her boyfriend)
<cmaloney> I also use it as a pedometer
<gamerchick02> cool!
<gamerchick02> that's what i'm thinking
<gamerchick02> a fitbit with a clock only costs a bit less
<cmaloney> There's an app called Plexfit which is quite awesome
<cmaloney> 2.99
<cmaloney> If you have an Android phone it's awesome
<cmaloney> if you have an iPhone then it unfortunately doesn't work so well
<gamerchick02> cool ofc i have an android phone, what do you take me for?
<gamerchick02> :-P
<gamerchick02> tho i *am* thinking of defecting to ios with the 6 on Virgin mobile
<cmaloney> Heh
<gamerchick02> so. not. sure. though
<cmaloney> Don't do it if you get a pebble
<cmaloney> Apparently Apple is being a bag of assholes
<gamerchick02> for real? why?
<cmaloney> Apple Watch
<gamerchick02> ah yes
<gamerchick02> the apple watch is super expensive and not as funtional as the pebble
<cmaloney> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pebble-smartwatch/id592012721?mt=8
<gamerchick02> ah yes
<cmaloney> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pebble-time/id957997620?mt=8
<cmaloney> Plus they have a nice SDK if you want to develop for it
<gamerchick02> yes!
<gamerchick02> on the ubuntu podcast there was a quick review
<cmaloney> Overall I really like it
<gamerchick02> sweet
<gamerchick02> i need to get some food but i don't know what i want. i will figure it out. heh
<cmaloney> I prefer the corporeal versions of food
<gamerchick02> hah. i'm just not sure what i want
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-24
<cmaloney> Morning
<cmaloney> lmorchard: Thank you for this: http://blog.lmorchard.com/2015/07/22/the-verge-web-sucks/
<cmaloney> You wrote what I've been thinking about how broken advertising on the web can be
<brousch> Excellent post, lmorchard
<rick_h_> morning
<brousch> yes
<cscheib> whatever I did differently with my french press today, my coffee tastes extra good
<_stink_> a bit of extra french
<cmaloney> http://www.cnet.com/news/nokias-purchase-of-alcatel-lucent-approved-by-european-regulators/
<cmaloney> I am so glad I'm out of there.
<rick_h_> heh
<jrwren> hahaha.
<jrwren> 2 of my worst performing stocks over the past 15yrs
<cmaloney> http://korben.info/thefuck-la-commande-qui-corrige-vos-commandes.html
<_stink_> hah, awesome
<jrwren> anyone else going to Maker Faire tomorrow?
<greg-g> from a PM, I'm too happy with this response to not share it:
<greg-g> my snark generator just broke after red lining the tachometer
<jrwren> lol
<brousch> jrwren: We're going on Sunday
<brousch> For the first time, it doesn't conflict with PyOhio
<jrwren> brousch: have fun!
<cmaloney> Yeah, no kidding
<cmaloney> though I'm likely going to miss it this year as well
<brousch> boooooo
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-25
<cmaloney> woo woo hospital
<_stink_> :/
<gamerchick02> oh no are you ok?
<wolfger> everything alright, cmaloney?
<cmaloney> yeah, i am fine. dad in law
<cmaloney> nothing bad
<jrwren> maker faire is exhausting
#ubuntu-us-mi 2015-07-26
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Woo woo
<cmaloney> Afternoon
<cmaloney> so dad-in-law is back home
<cmaloney> I think we have a good plan of action.
<gamerchick02> plan of action? hope it goes well?
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's going well
<cmaloney> I think he's OK for now
<gamerchick02> ok
<gamerchick02> i'm catching the Aus v. England Test 2 day 4. cricket... the Ashes tourney. it's long and looks a bit slow but that's ok
<cmaloney> Any particular reason you're watching cricket?
<cmaloney> Most folks on this side of the pond don't quite understand cricket. ;)
<gamerchick02> i'm trying to understand it better
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEH4ahCCrJo
<gamerchick02> some of the guys at work play and follow cricket
<cmaloney> Yes, some of them are from India. :)
<cmaloney> I tried playing cricket
<gamerchick02> and Pakistan!
<gamerchick02> i've never tried it
<cmaloney> to this day I have NFC what I was doing out there.
<cmaloney> That video pretty much explains it
<gamerchick02> lol
<gamerchick02> overs are like outs, i guess
<gamerchick02> i dunno
<gamerchick02> https://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/hosking/cricket/explanation.htm
<gamerchick02> Rogers (one of the Aus players) apparently got hit on the head by a ball or whatever the other day and is now dizzy. poor dude
<cmaloney> That ball is made of wood and lead
<gamerchick02> ouch. yeah. right in the side of the mask
<cmaloney> Possibly uranium and other heavy metals
<gamerchick02> cork and string
<cmaloney> Feels like titanium
<gamerchick02> it's like a baseball but red with a stitching around the circumference.
<cmaloney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f481fxMyNbg
<gamerchick02> HAH great!
<gamerchick02> home runs!!!
<cmaloney> Well, considering they're used to more "bunting" than thwacking
<gamerchick02> yeah
<cmaloney> Those would have been foul balls in baseball
<gamerchick02> part of it is that the bowler is throwing high ones
<gamerchick02> if they were lower and off the ground i doubt he'd know what to do with it
<cmaloney> Likely send it somewhere between New York and LA
<gamerchick02> heh
<_stink_> cricket!
<_stink_> i love it
<gamerchick02> howdy _stink_
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> _stink_: You like fewtball too right?
<gamerchick02> i'm watching yesterday's Ashes tourney
<_stink_> all the foreign sports
<_stink_> and most of the domestic ones.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Rugby and Curling too?
<gamerchick02> not yesterday but 7/19
<gamerchick02> i like rugby and curling
<_stink_> cmaloney: yes and yes!
<_stink_> i played a year of rugby
<_stink_> was really fun
<gamerchick02> nice!
<_stink_> i tried curling once
<_stink_> also fun
<gamerchick02> i've never tried curling
<cmaloney> I think we're going to have to pull _stink_'s 'murican card.
<gamerchick02> or rugby
<gamerchick02> baseball yes, american football, yes
<cmaloney> Rugby (from what I understand) is this: throw a ball and have a pile-on over the ball
<cmaloney> and then beat the shit out of each other without padding
<_stink_> yes
<cmaloney> Whomever isn't completely unconscious by the end of it gets a point.
<gamerchick02> yeah
<_stink_> pretty much it
<_stink_> it's great fun
<gamerchick02> oh and the ball can't go forward except for running
<_stink_> and if someone does something oyu don't like
<_stink_> you stomp them with your cleats
<gamerchick02> OUCH
<_stink_> and it's ok
<cmaloney> Yeah, it's like American Football and Hockey combined with none of the rules related to shoving a skate in someone's face.
<cmaloney> and none of those sissy things like pads and timeouts.
<gamerchick02> but ruggers know how to hit someone without injury. if a football player tried rugby they'd be in the hospital by halves
<cmaloney> I think it's more they know how to pull their head out of the way
<_stink_> oh yeah
<_stink_> protect the head
<gamerchick02> for sure!
<_stink_> also in rugby if you tackle a ball carrier in a way that unnecessarily endangers him
<_stink_> you get ejected
<_stink_> so you can't really blatantly hurt sometone
<gamerchick02> of course
<_stink_> there are lots of chest up collisions
<_stink_> at lower speeds
<gamerchick02> football is a bit different
<_stink_> than murkian football
<gamerchick02> it looks like a grapple when they're in the scrum
<_stink_> mauls are the best
<_stink_> they hardly ever form at amateur level
<_stink_> but they are so fun
<gamerchick02> maul?
<_stink_> and interesting
<gamerchick02> a huge scrum?
<_stink_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTsbiJdea6w
<_stink_> it's a type of group play where the ball carrier is not tackled
<gamerchick02> you plaied Union, not League, i take it
<gamerchick02> *played
<_stink_> oh yeah
<_stink_> i hate league
<gamerchick02> hah
<gamerchick02> what's the difference? i've read a bit and i'm like 'huh?"
<_stink_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak_QWAAtvFo
<_stink_> the second half of that where live play is shown gives an idea of what you can do off a maul
<_stink_> league is essentially no rucks or mauls
<gamerchick02> ah ok
<_stink_> the phase is over when theball carrier is tackled
<_stink_> he get to his feet, defense retreats a few yards
<gamerchick02> ok
<_stink_> play is restarted when he rolls the ball backward with his foot to a teammate
<_stink_> fewer players too
<_stink_> smaller pitch
<_stink_> i feel like the game is just not as interesting
<_stink_> as unio
<_stink_> n
<gamerchick02> i've watched a bit of Sevens
<_stink_> i'm a total snob
<_stink_> i don't love sevens either :)
<gamerchick02> Sevens is on TV
<gamerchick02> the only way i get any cricket or rugby is through watchespn
<_stink_> yeah they show lots of sevens on watchespn
<gamerchick02> well they also show sevens on NBC i think sometimes
<_stink_> they have showed college sevens i know
<gamerchick02> yeah
<gamerchick02> i don't have fancy cable so i don't get fancy rugby games
<_stink_> yeah i don't pay for bein sport either
<gamerchick02> i just have the limited basic
<gamerchick02> so that gives me most of the OTA stations and CBC, PBS from Flint, and TVO
<cmaloney> I'm so pissed that we no longer get CBC
<cmaloney> When we made the switch to digital broadcast signals we lost CBC
<gamerchick02> :(
<gamerchick02> you have an antenna, yes?
<gamerchick02> i've never gotten it before living down here
<gamerchick02> never had cable
<gamerchick02> till moving down here. ahem
<cmaloney> Yeah, antenna
<gamerchick02> you were a cord-cutter before cord cutting was cool
<gamerchick02> my mom was too. :-P
<cmaloney> I've been a cord cutter all of my life
<cmaloney> though we still pay a cable bill for my dad-in-law
<gamerchick02> i had cable in college because it came with the dorm room and apartment
<gamerchick02> i have it now for the internet
<cmaloney> yeah, we're cabled because of the internet.
<gamerchick02> i swear! it's just for the internet!  i'm holding the cable for a friend!
<cmaloney> heh
<gamerchick02> :-P
<cmaloney> bbl
<gamerchick02> kk
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-25
<Scary_Guy> I'm hitting "the pit" around 1-1:30 today if anyone wants to join.  off to nap now though, afk
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> what is the pit?
<_stink_> off topic, but someone here may know, and we're mostly in michigan... i am aware that property tax increases are capped per year, so even if your home value goes way up, yuor taxes only gradually go up until they match the rate for your equalized value.  and if you buy a new home, this is reset, and the equalized value of the home becomes half of the sale price.
<_stink_> but what if you do a major renovation on your existing home, financing much of it?
<_stink_> does that 'reset' your home's equalized value?
<_stink_> i am googling but finding nothing yet.
<cmaloney> Not sure
<shakes808> _stink_: I was in the mortgage business for a little bit, but not sure.  I passed your questions to a buddy that might know.
<_stink_> shakes808: thanks!
<shakes808> _stink_: He said that he doesn't believe it would.  It would only reset on change of ownership.  So if you do a bunch to the house and up the value, the taxes only increase slightly to the value
<_stink_> shakes808: ok great, thanks a bunch.  that's consistent with my reading of the little i have found.
<shakes808> But on the sale of the property the taxes will be reassessed and evaluated then
<shakes808> _stink_: No problem, glad we could help :)
<shakes808> _stink_: I would say, go to your city's assessment department and they will be able to give you more "official" explanations :)
<shakes808> _stink_: my buddy just said that he has done a lot to his home over the years.  Appraised and refi of his home (appraised for over 100K than what he bought it for)  and the taxes have not increased by that same ratio.
<_stink_> good point, i could probably answer this for sure with one call.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Do you have a tax preparer?
<cmaloney> or have you used H&R Block tax software?
<_stink_> cmaloney: turbotax
<_stink_> my wife is the tax preparer.
<cmaloney> _stink_: Ask your wife. :)
<_stink_> hahaha
<cmaloney> (Not sure if Turbotax has a phone line for asking questions like that without costing $$ but worth a shot)
<cmaloney> "I noticed your website on yellow pages. Would you be open to a conversation about upgrading your solution?"
<cmaloney> orly?
<_stink_> my solution to Fermat's Last Theorem?  yes please
<cmaloney> Is that under F or T?
<_stink_> hah
<cmaloney> Well, it looks like Yahoo is now Verizon's pet
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-26
<Scary_Guy> yeah, the yahoo thing is intersting.  I can't wait to see how AT&T handles losing their e-mail service
<Scary_Guy> kind of surprised they didn't buy them
<cmaloney> i'm sure verizon will keep that covenant
<cmaloney> it's free money and telcos are friendlier than you might think
<mrgoodcat> at&t uses yahoo for email?
<_stink_> yeah some skin of it
<cmaloney> There's very few things that AT&T builds in-house
<cmaloney> and a lot of things they get re-branded
<cmaloney> (*cough*)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-27
<cmaloney> jcastro: http://www.metalinjection.net/bands-and-booze/megadeth-to-launch-a-tout-le-monde-beer-soon
<jcastro> I saw
<cmaloney> "It'll taste good, then bad, then good, then AWFUL, then good again."
<jcastro> heh
<jcastro> and it will alternate between alcoholic and non-alcoholic randomly
<cmaloney> and whether it will try to jam itself down your throat. ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-28
<shakes808> _stink_: did you ever get your questions answered about the mortgage?
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> shakes808: yep, i think so, thank you
<_stink_> i asked a few others and the info was consistent
<shakes808> awesome!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-29
<cmaloney> if anyone is jeading to pyohio and has a spaee barrel thinkpad charger you'd be ny hero if you brouhht one to me. ;)
<shake808> cmaloney: Let me know how it goes this weekend.
<rick_h_> cmaloney: sorry :(
<rick_h_> cmaloney: don't hesitate to ping next time
<cmaloney> rick_h_: no worries.
<cmaloney> this phone is going to get wkrked overtime
<cmaloney> ;)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2016-07-30
<cmaloney> morning
<rick_h_> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> woo woo
<Scary_Guy> afternoon
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-24
<greg-g> jrwren: we (WMF) do end of month
<jrwren> good to know.
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> Good Morning
<jrwren> how is the knee, rick_h ?
<rick_h> it's there. basically it's bipolar. Swelling is down and at times it almost feels like I could walk on it
<rick_h> then I swing my legs off the bed and it does a twisting motion and hurts like hell
<rick_h> so, as long as it's strapped and doesn't move it feels fine. Actually try to use it for anything and :(
<cmaloney> :(
<cmaloney> morning, btw
<rick_h> all good, counting down the days to seeing the surgeon.
 * rick_h wants Prime for dr appointments
<jrwren> lol.
<rick_h> this order and wait 17 days business...I didn't order off brand toys from china
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> medical is really messed up.
<jrwren> but hey, at least we ain't dead.
<cmaloney> "hey, it only took me a second to do the damage; it should take just as long to undo it"
<jrwren> fix it like Dr. Crusher plz.
<rick_h> lol
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-25
<cmaloney> morning
<cmaloney> how's the morning so far?
<jrwren> painful.
<jrwren> Good morning
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> What happened?
<jrwren> knee
<jrwren> the scrape was the easy part. something inside is much worse.
<jrwren> I need to see a doctor.
<cmaloney> oh no
<_stink_> this channel is cursed
<cmaloney> stahp
<cmaloney> I'ts not cursed
<cmaloney> please
<cmaloney> don't be cursed
<rick_h> jrwren: you want me to see if my wife would check you out?
<cmaloney> just don't get bikes involved
<jrwren> rick_h: No, but huge thanks for the offer. That is kind.
<jrwren> rick_h: I'm buying me some COBRA and I'll go to my regular doctor.
<jrwren> I seem to have full in some really weird loophole or crack with this lack of coverage.
<cmaloney> You should be able to qualify for ACA, but not sure when the renewal period is
<jrwren> I applied. It never starts until start of next month.
<jrwren> Hence the crack.
<cmaloney> oh that sucks. :(
<jrwren> yup.
<jrwren> also, a great reason to stay on COBRA is that it is the same plan and so things like amt toward annual cap is kept. on a new ACA plan that would reset and so meeting a deductable, for example, would be harder.
<jrwren> since I only need it for a bit until new plan starts, it really makes sense to stay on cobra because any new plan will not have any contrib to deductable met
<jrwren> or... if I find a very low deductable plan, at which point the COBRA is actually cheaper.
<jrwren> whew, shit is complex.
<jrwren> I miss my early 20s when I had no dependants and i was very healthy and didn't have to worry about this stuff.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I can completely relate
<jrwren> yeah, i vaguely recall you going through some COBRA hell last year.
<cmaloney> mine was more they wanted most of my nonexistant wealth for COBRA
<cmaloney> COBRA is when you realize that there's a real cost to employers to keep employees insured
<jrwren> pretty much, yes.
<greg-g> anyone else here download all their email from gmail? Have you ran into the gmail anti-warez throttling? There's no known work-around, right?
<greg-g> this is for my work account, personal account on Gandi is fast and no rate limiting :)
<rick_h> greg-g: no, just used offlineimap to do this in the past and yea I've hit throttling and needed to let it go for a long long time
<rick_h> greg-g: ddos waiting to happen? :)
 * greg-g nods
<greg-g> he, true, but at least not my servers :)
<greg-g> heh*
<rick_h> but that's why I've always seeded offlineimap with a recent-ish copy of the mailbox so it helps cut it down a lot
<rick_h> greg-g: must be cloud (someone else's computer) :P
 * rick_h loves that saying more than others re: cloud for some reason
<greg-g> yeah... it pains me to share but... my email backups (just rsync'd maildirs) is in a bad state. I need to do some dedupe/merge etc first
<greg-g> I mean, I have it all, just, in 3 different directories from different points in time
 * greg-g hangs head
 * rick_h cant' look away from the news...such a train wreck 
<greg-g> BSA+Trump thing or other?
<rick_h> the other, haven't seen what the BSA thing is
<rick_h> you mean today gets better?
 * rick_h reads the BSA stuff and just sinks lower in his chair
<greg-g> https://twitter.com/McJesse/status/889660510379102209
<greg-g> :)
<cmaloney> What the hell else happened?
<greg-g> according to google news: trump throwing Sessions under the bus even more, the vote on AHCA will move forward soon
<cmaloney> Awesome
<cmaloney> Can we impeach him now?
<cmaloney> Or are the Republicans scared of the mess they've made of things yet
<greg-g> option 2
<cmaloney> *sigh*
<greg-g> the GOP has it's sights set on power for perpetuity, and this is just a wrinkle in that plan which is otherwise going exceedingly well
<greg-g> I'm not exaggerating any of that
<cmaloney> I know
<cmaloney> Gerrymandering / stcking the courts
<cmaloney> it's all part of this plan
<jrwren> well, doc says knee will heal.  yay!
<cmaloney> jrwren: What did you do to it?
<jrwren> that bike fall. its wasn't the outside scrapes that hurt teh most.
<jrwren> i was afraid I tore a ligament or something
<cmaloney> Right, I mean what did the doctor say you did to it
<rick_h> jrwren: yay!
<jrwren> lol, I htink he used some highly technical words like.
<jrwren> "you probably just tweaked it."
<rick_h> lol
<rick_h> jrwren: he push on the side of the knee and pull it forward to test it out?
<cmaloney> For how much $$ you're paying them they better damn well have some Latin in there
<cmaloney> Tweaked ain't gonna cut it.
<cmaloney> "You've pushed the bulshittius maximusal  gluttenal rectum"
<rick_h> heh, lot cheaper than the MRI time, and the surgeon consult, and the ...
<cmaloney> Right, but I want some performance for that $$
<cmaloney> "tweaked" is what I can say in the bathroom mirror
<jrwren> rick_h: exactly
<cmaloney> At least hit minimum soap-opera-levels
<cmaloney> "Mrs. Wren, your son will be fine. He just over-extended his jointal-knee-thingus"
<jrwren> lol.
<cmaloney> "Oh thank you Doctor!"
<rick_h> I got a letter today "After careful review, AIM on behalf of BCBS has approved the request for an MRI made on your behalf"
<rick_h> oh nice, thanks for that review that I needed that...
<jrwren> i don't care what he says. all I heard was, "the four ligaments seem fine, you aren't gonna need surgery"
<cmaloney> ricricI love insurance
<rick_h> jrwren: ding ding ding, gotta love it
<jrwren> fucking MRI in USA is the worst.
<cmaloney> Like the time I had my kidney stone and the doctor came by and said "Hello, I'm Dr. Fussbudget and I'm the doctor that admitted you"
<jrwren> USA needs flat rate MRI like in JP.  in JP, an MRI costs $150. that is it.
<cmaloney> No, asshole, I'm the one who admitted me.
<jrwren> so it is no big deal for doctors to order them.
<cmaloney> no joke
<rick_h> hmm, there's only a couple and it does take 30min+ so I don't know that $150 makes sense
<rick_h> but seems like it'd be nice to not make it so much more crazy than x-ray
<cmaloney> WEll, it's Japan, so they've likely miniaturized it so it fits in the doctor's pants pocket
<cmaloney> porta-MRI
<cmaloney> WalkMRI
<jrwren> it was also probably 15yrs ago that I heard this radio interview about health care and the JP MRI bit, but still... :)
<rick_h> lol
<Scary_Guy> Moved from Mint to Debian Testing, liking it so far.  Basically have it set up almost the exact same way
<_stink_> cmaloney++, WalkMRI
<cmaloney> ;)
<gamerchick02> hey, what do you do if you know you're right for a job but not feeling it at the moment? i moved to a new group and i'm not feeling as confident in my ability anymore. ugh
<_stink_> rest assured it's normal?
<Scary_Guy> imposter syndrome?
<greg-g> it gets us all
<gamerchick02> imposter syndrome like whoa
<gamerchick02> like, i know i can do this and everyone is telling me i can do this but i'm not feeling it at all.
<Scary_Guy> just do what you've been doing and keep telling yourself it's normal
<gamerchick02> i guess it's hitting me with the level of responsibility i have now that i've gotten my company cell phone
<gamerchick02> who'd think an iphone would make me break?
<Scary_Guy> if all else fails r/actlikeyoubelong (but you actually belong so I'm not sure how that works)
<gamerchick02> :) thanks
<Scary_Guy> it'd make me break, the phone
<gamerchick02> fake it til you make it, right?
<Scary_Guy> keep calm and carry on
<gamerchick02> well, i had a choice between android and iphone but i'm a stickler for my phone (android) and with the iphone i'll care less because it's apple. i dunno
<gamerchick02> care less as in not be upset that i can't have the apps i want
<Scary_Guy> yeah, work phone shouldn't be used for fun anyway, just calls
<_stink_> 'not feeling it' as in not interested in the work yet?
<_stink_> or really just imposter syndrome
<gamerchick02> no i'm interested in the work, i just feel overwhelmed right now re my responsibilities and level. like i feel like i'm not ready even though i *AM* ready because i was killing it in my last job (literally being able to look at a problem and solve it without even any thought).
<_stink_> it's tough to go from kicking ass easily to being behind
<gamerchick02> "oh you just do this and this and this, and look at this and this, and BOOM, fixed"
<_stink_> but i think everyone knows what that's like
<_stink_> around you, i mean
<gamerchick02> yeah.
<Scary_Guy> keep in mind the added pay increase means added work too
<gamerchick02> most of my group has been around awhile and they know EVERYTHING so i'm sitting here like a dork not knowing what i'm doing.
<gamerchick02> yeah i know
<Scary_Guy> if all else fails, any manuals you can read?  also don't be afraid to ask about things you don't know
<gamerchick02> yeah i'm good at asking questions, but i don't feel like anything is sinking in right now. ugh i just feel useless today.
<gamerchick02> luckily i'm home, so that helps
<gamerchick02> i just don't like being a beginner. and i don't feel like i'm actually earning my pay even though i'm doing things i'm asked to do and i put in all my hours.
<gamerchick02> i was going to go grocery shopping tonight but i didn't feel like it. i have food, i just don't want to deal with procuring anything fresh right now. maybe i'm all full up on decisions right now.
<gamerchick02> i should be happy for this job. i know there are others that don't have it as lucky.
<Scary_Guy> our brains can be dicks, that's really all it is
<Scary_Guy> you'll come around.  if not you could try counseling too.
<gamerchick02> haha so true!
<gamerchick02> half my brain is telling me "you got dis" and the other half is going "why the hell did you even TRY to go for this position? you're effing stupid for thinking you could even DO such a job. you're useless and a failure"
<Scary_Guy> self doubt is a bitch, that's why.  we're afraid of failure even though it's one of the greatest tools ever
<gamerchick02> yeah. i guess if i mess something up, i can just fix it right? nothing i do is life or death
<gamerchick02> i'm not, like, a doctor or something
<Scary_Guy> except driving maybe
<gamerchick02> i'd break in that job
<gamerchick02> well true. but driving is automatic for me (wasn't for the longest time) and i've got a handle on it.
<gamerchick02> i meant for my job. nothing i do for that is life or death.
<Scary_Guy> I think that's a part of the problem though.  a lot of the poeple are just on autopilot
<Scary_Guy> I'd trust a Tesla with autopilot more than some people on the road
<gamerchick02> true
<gamerchick02> i felt like this my second week too. maybe by a couple months in i'll feel more comfortable with everything, but right now all i want to do is call in tomorrow and hide under the blankets on my bed.
<Scary_Guy> you have any knick-knacks to take in?  helps make it feel like home
<gamerchick02> yeah i moved from one place at FCA to another
<gamerchick02> i have all my stuff
<Scary_Guy> ##diulive is live in 10 minutes, if anyone likes industrial music
<gamerchick02> cool. industrial isn't my vibe, but i know lots of other people like it
<gamerchick02> thanks, everyone. i feel a little bit better. i'll go in tomorrow and tackle what i have to do (even though i have 2 meetings in the morning) and muddle through as best i can.
 * Scary_Guy gives a thumbs up
<gamerchick02> :)
<jrwren> gamerchick02: happy belated bday
<gamerchick02> oh thank you!
<gamerchick02> i had a good one, even though i had to work.
<gamerchick02> well... it wasn't "good" it was passable. i had a boatload of tech issues, but i soldiered on.
<gamerchick02> the weekend was great though. saw my fav folk singer in Flint
<jrwren> awesome!
<jrwren> local singer or someone I might know?
<gamerchick02> he's from Chicago: Mark Dvorak
<gamerchick02> markdvorak.com
<gamerchick02> i love his music and i like him as a person
<gamerchick02> he's just so freaking cool
<jrwren> cool.
<jrwren> i've never heard of him, but cool.
<Scary_Guy> I like his last name
<Scary_Guy> anybody ever mess with audtty?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-26
<cmaloney> evening
<_stink_> yo
<jrwren> good morning
<rick_h> morning
<_stink_> yo
<cmaloney> morning
<Scary_Guy> hey
<jrwren> zomg, i just walked down the stairs mostly normal!!!  Knee is getting better!!!
<cmaloney> jrwren: That's awesome!
<greg-g> I wonder if rick_h is just thinking "quit bragging"
<rick_h> lol
<jrwren> yeah, sorry rick_h
<rick_h> I just got off the phone with my doc because erica is worried I might have a blood clot in my leg now...so yay more broken perhaps!
<greg-g> oh geez
<rick_h> but I'm very happy for jrwren :)
<jrwren> ugh.
<greg-g> good luck man
<rick_h> the scheduler lady said nice things about my son so I'm on a dad-high atm
<jrwren> :)
<rick_h> got to do the "thanks, dad's all love to hear those things about their kids"
<jrwren> dad high's rule.
<greg-g> <3
<cmaloney> rick_h: Oh noes
<cmaloney> also: Michael is a treasure to be around
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-27
<jrwren> greg-g: we are more connected more than ever: https://youtu.be/MrXodYp7cmI
<gamerchick02> that's a great video
<jrwren> hehe :)
<jrwren> greg-g lives near lagunitas
<greg-g> jrwren: heh "when we met with them they were very much like us and we had a very good time" aka "Tony smoked us out"
<jrwren> lol
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> Morning
<jrwren> good morning
<_stink_> yes
<Scary_Guy> morning
<greg-g> enough
<jrwren> greetings greg-g.
<greg-g> I meant "good enough"
<_stink_> not ENOUGH ALREADY ?
<rick_h> +1 to the revised statement
<greg-g> I realized that's how it came across :)
 * rick_h is ready to just disconnect from everything and go get a shed in the woods
<_stink_> you want to be the next unabomber?
<brousch> Are we all excited for PyOhio?!
<rick_h> woot woot
<rick_h> cmaloney: around?
<cmaloney> figuratively
<cmaloney> what's up?
<cmaloney> rick_h: ^^
<rick_h> cmaloney: just wanted to chat on tomorrow. Have to take the boy to my Aunt at noon, pick up erica post work. We're looking at heading down out of here probably 1:20ish so your place somewhere before/around 2pm?
<cmaloney> OK, sounds good
<cmaloney> that'll give us time to get lunch / get our shit together
<rick_h> cmaloney: rgr cool
<rick_h> cmaloney: I'll keep in touch if anything goes nuts
<cmaloney> no worries. THanks for the heads up. :)
<cmaloney> morning
<greg-g> ...
<gamerchick02> evening!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-28
<rick_h> morning
<dzho> morning
<dzho> or, as some of us like to say elsewhere: morning--
<widox> morning
<jrwren> good morning
<jrwren> i know it is silly, but there is something magical about the first time running imgcat in a terminal window and seeing an image appear.
<cmaloney> :)
<_stink__> jrwren++
<Scary_Guy> no there's not, it's just code
<Scary_Guy> admittedly neat code though
<jrwren> Scary_Guy: you are wrong.
<Scary_Guy> maybe... wait no
<Scary_Guy> on a lot of things yes.  pretty sure I'm spot on with this one however
<jrwren> a definition of magical is enchanting, meaning: pleasant; delightful. These are subjective feelings of experience and do describe experience using imgcat by me and others.
<Scary_Guy> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/magic :p
<jrwren> !d magical
<jrwren> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/magical
<jrwren> you use your dictionary, i'll use mine. we can both be wrong and neither of us right.
<Scary_Guy> thefreedictionary.com ...  get what you pay for I guess
<cmaloney> Dammit let someone have their magic please. :)
<cmaloney> We have enough non-magic in the world as it is
<jrwren> its a trigger word for Scary_Guy because Jobs used it to describe apple projects, I'll bet.
<Scary_Guy> no, we need more James Randi up in here
<jrwren> I got to teleconference with him once. Very great guy.
<cmaloney> James Randi made his living doing magical illusions. There's nothing wrong with finding wonder in perfectly-explainable phenomenon
<Scary_Guy> I love how people say Jobs was so smart, and then he went ahead and died from a curable cancer
<Scary_Guy> Randi doesn't call himself a magician though, but rather a conjurer
<cmaloney> Jobs was a great business-person and showman. He was an idiot in other regards
<Scary_Guy> Penn & Teller on the other hand...  but it's not like everyone agrees on everything
<jrwren> Jobs, I never knew or met the man.
<Scary_Guy> I thought you just said you teleconferenced with him?  was it just a telecast then?  Still neat I suppose
<jrwren> with James Randi
<Scary_Guy> oh
<Scary_Guy> Well that's even cooler though
<jrwren> He said bad things about charlatans and I realized if I were smarter I'd be a successful charlatan.
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ayep
<cmaloney> We've often talked about how to bilk people
<cmaloney> and how those pesky morals get in the way
<Scary_Guy> If I had less integrity I'd be a successful charlatan
<cmaloney> Did you see the documentary "An Honest Liar"? Fascinating tale of him
<Scary_Guy> yes, great work.  I've been a fan for years but the end threw me like woah
<cmaloney> yeah
<Scary_Guy> I like to send the gnostic atheists his video on how you can't prove a negative
<Scary_Guy> and anyone who is into homeopothy any of his videos tearing it apart
<Scary_Guy> also, if "magicians" had any less integrity, they'd all just be pickpockets
<jrwren> how did I miss this? https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-cost-per-gigabyte/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=Newsletter-B2&utm_content=hdcostpergb-b&utm_campaign=Newsletter-20170728
<Scary_Guy> I remember that spike in 2011.  I got two 2GB Seagate drives from Micro Center for $89 each, then everything shot up to crazy numbers because of some Tsunami in Thailand or something that took out a factory
<Scary_Guy> oh, it's mentioned in it
<Scary_Guy> does anyone here use XMPP with OMEMO support?
<jrwren> https://www.theverge.com/transportation/2017/7/27/16052118/bollinger-b1-electric-sport-truck-outdoors  the word "tow" is not in the article, thus it is a complete failure.
<dzho> want
<rick_h> brousch: you here yet?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-29
<cmaloney> howdy
<brousch> ETA 11:15
<cmaloney> Ugh
<cmaloney> Just getting ready for bed. Turning into pumpkins
<brousch> Made it
<cmaloney> Good morning
<cmaloney> brousch: Yipes.
<rick_h> brousch: woot woot
<cmaloney> woot
#ubuntu-us-mi 2017-07-30
<cmaloney> Good morning
<jrwren> Good morning.
<rick_h> morning
<jrwren> Tonight is the night.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-23
<cmaloney> Morning
<_stink_> mornig
<jrwren> Good Morning
<cmaloney> https://www.stilldrinking.org/interviewing-is-broken
<cmaloney> âSo, using whatever language you want, php, python, perl, javascript, program something that gets todayâs date and time, then writes it to a file.â
<cmaloney> Me:
<cmaloney> $ date > today.txt
<cmaloney> âWell. Okay then.â
<cmaloney> Result: âWe donât feel you have the right skill set.â To be fair, I didnât know what closure was back then, but not like I didnât know it two hours after the interview.
<jrwren> lol.
<jrwren> I like the "Use InnoDB"
<cmaloney> Yeah, that one was my favorite
<cmaloney> next to $ date > today.txt
<_stink_> i ask essentially zero questions that amount to a programming test.  i ask a lot of "hey you know <language or framework>, what do you like about it?  what don't you like about it?"
<jrwren> its weird, I haven't had these interview experiences, EVER.
<_stink_> "have you ever used any of features A, B, C, or D?  what problem were you trying to solve?"
<jrwren> I did get asked what some C code did when I interviewed at Arbor, after claiming to not know C anymore because I hadn't used it in 10+yrs. But my response is nothing like this guys. I've never thought, "dick" after an interview question.
<dzho> > âThen why am I using php? You know the dollar signs arenât real money, right?â
<cmaloney> Well, at Arbor I think they were looking for anything that had C experience
<cmaloney> since even after my interview for an unrelated position they asked me about my C experience
<cmaloney> so it wasn't a complete "I'm not a programmer at all, I'm a web designer and you're showing me C code" experience
<jrwren> wow, this guys blog is fun.
<jrwren> https://www.stilldrinking.org/chipotle-bias lol
<jrwren> Was it Tommy Beedle?
<cmaloney> Name is somewhat ringing a bell
<jrwren> He likes to ask everyone C stuff.
<jrwren> He isn't there anymore, but he was there for like 10yrs.
<cmaloney> https://www.stilldrinking.org/things-i-send-to-recruiters
<jrwren> cmaloney: hahaha, zomg, that one is great.
<jrwren> hahaha, oh the setup for "I would rather be that guyâs boyfriend than work in the ad industry again."
<jrwren> so good
<cmaloney> Yeah
<havenstance> evening ya'll
<cmaloney> howdy
<cmaloney> how is the day so far?
<havenstance> well it's 5:30 pm here now lol how bout you man? haven't seen ya'll in quite a while now
<havenstance> but it's been pretty good thus far
<cmaloney> 5:30pm? you.must be central now
<gamerchick02> g'day! and it is a good day.
<cmaloney> so dar so good. just being myself as best i can
<cmaloney> howdy gamerchick02
<jrwren> its beautiful outside.
<jrwren> not too hot, but I still got sweating biking to a meetup :)
<greg-g> Wanna work on my team as a Sr Engineer? https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/1225209?gh_src=475f97e61 :)
<jrwren> yes.
<jrwren> but I'd prefer it if you hire me and then when I need to visit, we meet in Petaluma instead of SF  :)
<jrwren> I'm looking for work. My project ended at work. There were layoffs and a mass exodus.
<jrwren> It was a really good year and then it was a bummer of a month :(
<greg-g> jrwren: I've been in SF at the office a total of 2 times this year.
<greg-g> 3, maybe 4, times last year
<cmaloney> jrwren: Ugh. Sorry to hear that. I was wondering how things were faring for you.
<cmaloney> I knew they were having layoffs, but wasn't sure if you'd gotten hit by them
<jrwren> I have some leads, so I'm hopeful.
<jrwren> I haven't yet. I'm still there.
<cmaloney> seems a common ailment
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<cmaloney> Good to hear.
<cmaloney> but yeah, GTFO
<cmaloney> Still need to figure out how we can make a tech cooperative or something
<cmaloney> a research lab of interesting shit that pays well and doesn't expect results
<cmaloney> Funny; when I was younger I wanted Dungeons and Dragons to be real. Now I want fun and stable employment to be real
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-24
<gamerchick02> g'day cmaloney ! sorry i missed you; i was taking care of a couple things.
<gamerchick02> i... have that. if you want me to search on the FCA site for internal postings and then rec one to you, send me a pm, cmaloney
<cmaloney> Thank you.
<Scary_Guy> why not both?  "boss wants this on his desk by Friday, roll for init"
<cmaloney> Heh
<rick_h_> morning
<cmaloney> How's the day so far?
<rick_h_> ugh, same as the last week I guess
 * rick_h_ grumbles in the corner
<cmaloney> What happened last week?
 * cmaloney is on a day-to-day basis. :)
<cmaloney> Or was it that the pupper got up way too early?
<rick_h_> not this past weekend, but a week ago I guess I got some inner ear thing "vestibular neuritis" so I've not been able to drive or walk in a straight line since
<rick_h_> woke up feeling good for about 10minutes before things kicked in and so now I'm cranky for the false hope
<cmaloney> Oh shit.
 * cmaloney doesn't read the Twitter
<rick_h_> meh, not missing much
<rick_h_> I've not been able to read for a week really either
<rick_h_> spent last week basically with an eyemask on listening to podcasts
<cmaloney> Oh god, that's no fun
<rick_h_> finally able to do limited 30min computer sessions this week
<cmaloney> Does that mean this weekend's festivities are in limbo?
<rick_h_> oh we had to cancel our 10day family UP trip again this year
<rick_h_> last year due to ACL blowing and this year because I can't drive/do anything complicated
<rick_h_> we were supposed to head out Wed
<cmaloney> Oh no. That sucks. :(
<cmaloney> bbiab.
<rick_h_> yea, them's the breaks
<cmaloney> Anything I can do to help
<cmaloney> ?
<cmaloney> Even if it's just a sanity break
<rick_h_> Naw, I need to get to PT tomorrow. I'm holding out some magic hope they can move things faster than this last week has been
<rick_h_> sorry, guess this is whiny at this point
<rick_h_> I was just dropping in to say hi as I've not been computing much lately
<rick_h_> currently running all text at 180% so I can see it well enough it doesn't blur so feel like a grandma using a computer :P
<cmaloney> That's quite OK
<cmaloney> You're allowed to be winey. It's like a lot of the things you enjoy gut removed all of a sudden
<rick_h_> I've got my buddy trying to make me feel better lol https://photos.app.goo.gl/Fo33NHcwL8c9NzgV8
<rick_h_> I've got to take a new pic with the shower wall and such installed but https://photos.app.goo.gl/xFUxqpJs121WVd6h7 is coming along nice
<rick_h_> so there's little victories in there
<cmaloney> OMG, she's adorable
<rick_h_> trouble maker :P https://photos.app.goo.gl/A8nM5sT5LggVgMhZA
<cmaloney> Well, of course she is
<cmaloney> that's just good thinking
<cmaloney> gotta mask that scent somehow
<rick_h_> she's a treat. Training class starts tomorrow
<rick_h_> well, expect first day is just the owners
<rick_h_> so next week I guess
<cmaloney> Ah, OK
<rick_h_> but she's pretty well trained at this point, just has a puppy brain
<cmaloney> Naturally
<cmaloney> She's also got someone keeping her in line who has already been through this
<cmaloney> Jordyn is so well trained
<cmaloney> she only bolted that tone time toward the door when I was coming into it and knocked any future children I might have had well into the future.
<cmaloney> :)
<rick_h_> yea, she's been an amazing pup
<rick_h_> though it was satifying to hear Erica go "you know, a rott probably would have made such a great first dog after all. So much more calm"
<cmaloney> heh
<cmaloney> Well, don't rotts have that trigger in them where if it snaps they have a hard time undoing it?
<cmaloney> or is that most dogs (save for poodles)
<brousch> OH man, my friends' pomsky is kind of a nightmare
<brousch> It nips everyone when it wants to play, which is always, and is too quick to catch
<brousch> It had my son crying last weekend
<cmaloney> Ugh
<brousch> Pees on the carpet all the time, even after just going out
<jrwren> i never understand why folks keep dogs like that.
<brousch> Rumor is, it costed $3000
<brousch> It's incredibly cute, but nippy and barky
<jrwren> what kind of dog is it?
<brousch> pomsky: pomeranian + husky
<jrwren> oh god, one of those trendy mixes.
<brousch> http://platpets.com/pomsky-dog-breed-temperament-training-diet/
<cmaloney> So basically a diminuitive husky with an attitude
<brousch> Yeah
<brousch> And too quick to catch
<cmaloney> get a cat
<cmaloney> at least they piddle in a litterbox
<brousch> They have one. It is a reasonable creature
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> They drove like 2 hours to get it, too
<brousch> Reading the temperament section on that page. It is accurate, and looks like a problem
<brousch> They don't have anyone disciplining her consistently, and the kids would rather computer than play with her
<cmaloney> ah, that's no good
<greg-g> does launchpad not let you upload ed25519 ssh keys? I got "invalid key" when trying.
 * greg-g is looking at his launchpad account due to updating his stack exchange login info from the launchpad openid to email/password (SE is deprecating openide)
<greg-g> -e
<jrwren> yeah, I can't believe they are doing that. I thought they were a big openid success story. Shows what I know.
<jrwren> oh wait... they are keeping oauth providers? those ARE openid2.  sheesh, this is confusing
<jrwren> I see, they are removing generic openid. I guess that makes sense.
<greg-g> I guess... :(
<greg-g> the open web is dieing
<greg-g> dying, something
<greg-g> I never get that right, or think I get it right
<jrwren> now I don't know what is right.
<greg-g> :)
<jrwren> dying - to dye, using dye?
<greg-g> presumably
<jrwren> oh... its dyeing if its with die. its dying if its die. wow, english irregular conjugation.
<jrwren> i probably learned that in 4th grade and then forgot it all.
<_stink_> what about the act of rolling a die?
<jrwren> you just said, rolling
<jrwren> unless you are doing drugs. that is different rolling.
<jrwren> anyone else watching google cloud next?
<cmaloney> Isn't oauth / openID2 still the open web?
<cmaloney> or is that essentially "do nt apply unless Google, Facebook, or Twitter"
<greg-g> cmaloney: that
<greg-g> it's like email: sure it's an open standard, but good luck getting on google etc's good side with your private server
<jrwren> because openid was, "insert your openid url here"
<jrwren> but oauth2 is: we accept these and only these providers, and by these, we mean facebook.
<cmaloney> god, I'm having all sorts of fun trying to set up a new mail server and not have Google dump my mail into the shitter
<cmaloney> SPF: That's nice, but we need DKIM
<cmaloney> DKIM: All of the fun of SSL, now in your DNS records
<greg-g> exactly, which is why I skipped that and just use gandi's service
<greg-g> I loved the fact that my grossmeier.net email was hosted on the same box my grossmeier.net apache was back in the day (a friend, Asheesh, managed the box, he's a DD, so I trusted him ;) ). But, those days are long gone for me.
<cmaloney> Hmmm.
<cmaloney> Hover has a $20 a year option.
<cmaloney> All I really need is something to route a bit of mail around
<cmaloney> Might be worth it in the long run
<cmaloney> was setting this up as a separate machine so I wouldn't be so reluctant to upgrade machines and have my email go wonky
<cmaloney> unrelated: love when I mentioned that I was having fun setting up a mail server that someone recommended I use something like ansible
<jrwren> i am currently doing 2 things for self hosted email.  1: coloc rpi for $7/mo.  2: aws instance receiving and routing to my home server to get around comcast port 25 incoming block
<jrwren> both work well.
<cmaloney> like, my dude, I'm not even at the level where I have working config. Why the fuck would I put it in Ansible yet
<jrwren> i have a dream of starting a business charging something cheap like $3/mo simply to route mail for self hosters to get email to their home-server through port blocks.
<cmaloney> Heh
<jrwren> its not a growth market :)
<jrwren> its a hobby business.
<cmaloney> No, it's a support nightmare
<jrwren> maybe.
<cmaloney> bunch of whiney nerds wondering where their email is
<cmaloney> and can you make it so you route it to ...
<jrwren> right. that is why you have to build tools for them to view logs for only their email.
<cmaloney> and why is it so expensive ...
<jrwren> they'd config the route destination themselves. little webui for config. not a big deal.
<cmaloney> Whenever I think of a service like that I suddenly get images of some of the folks that attend MUG and while I think they're wonderful people I wouldn't want to support their infrastructure.
<jrwren> well, you wouldn't.
<greg-g> haha
<jrwren> you send email to a host/ip-tcpport
<cmaloney> I reiterate... ;)
<jrwren> no biggie. some customers, you dont' want.
<jrwren> refund their money, move on. its not a big deal.
<cmaloney> heh
<brousch> Coloc rpi?
<brousch> That's hilarious
<cmaloney> Hey now
<cmaloney> you could probably fill the crap out of a 1U unit with RPI
<cmaloney> http://www.bitscope.com/product/BB04/
<cmaloney> http://my.bitscope.com/store/?p=view&i=item+7
<cmaloney> I think I just figured out one thing that I'm getting when I win the lottery
<brousch> Seems less powerful than a $5/mo DO droplet
<greg-g> but more fun/esoteric ;)
<greg-g> I was half watching a train hopping video while getting synced up with our recruiting people (via email) and man, that looks like such a stressful and fun time. I couldn't do it.
<brousch> Is the rpi at Hipster Hosting?
<cmaloney> Ugh. I don't think I could do train hopping at all
<daemoneye> So, I will be doing a webcast in about a half hour on Gitolite if anyone is interested.  https://www.crowdcast.io/e/intro-to-gitolite
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-25
<jrwren> holy crapâ¦ I just had an interviewâ¦ and I got REALLY nervous. I donât remember the last time I got THIS anxious and nervous during an interview.
<jrwren> actuallyâ¦ I think I do remember. it was 11yrs ago when I first decided to go 1099 employmentâ¦ that perceived risk freaked me out.
<jrwren> brousch: teh coloc rpi is GREAT, because we own it, and its CHEAP... find me $7 coloc ANYWHERE. :)
<havenstance> jrwren: I remember going 1099, was a bit of a scary decision but I've not regretted it one day since
<jrwren> yup. exactly.
<jrwren> it was an irrational fear.
<havenstance> mine was a guy in an armani suit walking up saying how would you like to make in a day what you make in a week now
<havenstance> naturally im like okay im listening, and just like that I took off for Pennsylvania doing Oil and Gas title work for an Oil company
<jrwren> i would love for someone to ask me that. :)
<havenstance> after the oil crash they called back last year and I went to West Texas and learned to lease, now they've got me doing curative and stuff, it's been great
<havenstance> didn't take me long to realize tho, this dust bowl will never beat my home in Northern Michigan lol
<havenstance> I was working in a gas station though so that explains how he was able to confidently say I'd make in a day what I made in a week lol
<cmaloney> Yeah, my only fear is tax time
<cmaloney> that's about it
<havenstance> cmaloney: that's not even a huge worry of mine as I deal with everything quarterly, just makes it easier, specially when this company pays for my accountant in full
<havenstance> question for anyone in here that might have debian experience, I'm aware this is ubuntu lol but wondering if anyone knows of a good guide or has written a shell script for debian that will check if apache and mysql are running and if not start them?
<jrwren> just run systemctl start apache2 mysql. it won't do anything if they are already runnig.
<havenstance> it's for my buddy's web server, I'm still trying to talk him into switching to Ubuntu as I'm way more familiar with the commands in there, but it seems as though Debian and Ubuntu share most of the same basic commands as I would have used systemctl in ubuntu
<havenstance> thanks jrwren
<jrwren> debian uses systemd by default now too. it should work.
<havenstance> confirmed working thanks man
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-27
<rick_h_> morning and such things
<Scary_Guy> greetings
<cmaloney> Good morning
<brousch> yo
<_stink_> happy fry day
<cmaloney> whee
<jrwren> Good
<jrwren> Morning and happy friday.  lol, oops... must be morning still. I typed ctrl-m instead of shift M
<widox> morning
<jrwren> FRIDAY FRIDAY!
<widox> I can't believe it took _all week_ to get here!
<cmaloney> Heh
<havenstance> anyone have experience with e107 CMS?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-28
<cmaloney> Way back in the day I ran e107
<cmaloney> it was insecure as hell
<myself> Okay, so while Shotwell is uploading photos to Flickr, my mouse pointer doesn't work in Firefox. Keyboard navigation is fine. To whom do I direct a bug report?
<myself> It seems to be OK if I start the upload, alt-tab away, and just do whatever. But if I come *back* to shotwell to check on the status of the upload, and then alt-tab away *again*, my mouse is dead (pointer moves, clicks don't click, scroll doesn't scroll) until the upload completes.
<jrwren> that is a crazy sounding bug.
<myself> it's stupidly obnoxious but it's teaching me a lot about keyboard navigation! :) I just renewed my license plate using only arrow keys and tab...
<brousch> cmaloney: weâre taking shuttle from Blackwell to sprints at 7:15, if youâre around
<cmaloney> THanks. Sadly we're not going to be able to make it
<cmaloney> Will have to see if I can get a shuttle later as I'd like to make the sprints at some point. :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2018-07-29
<havenstance> can anyone recommend a decent traffic monitor that isn't ntopng or darkstat?
<jrwren> i wish. I've been looking for anything that does flow level monitoring and its all complex as heck.
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-22
<rick_h> morning
<wolfger> morning
<cmaloney> morning
<brousch> morning
<rick_h> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mut2nnEkC4zAcSU37 favorite pic from the trip last week
<rick_h> cmaloney:  what's the fastest way to move to a buffer > 10 ?
<rick_h> cmaloney:  in weechat?
<cmaloney>  /buffer xx
<cmaloney> I haven't found anything quicker
<rick_h> ugh, that's a lot of typing
 * rick_h makes todo to go back to irssi where you get letters as shortcuts then
<cmaloney> Ahem
<cmaloney> There's also CTRL-n / p to swap to the previous and next buffer
<rick_h> yea, I use alt-left/right but it marks things read as you go through them
<cmaloney> https://github.com/weechat/weechat/wiki/buflist <- rick_h
<cmaloney> There's a string there for getting direct access to buffers 11-20
<cmaloney> I'mnot exactly sure how this works. ;)
<cmaloney> https://weechat.org/scripts/source/go.py.html/
<cmaloney> I'd forgotten I'd installed this
<cmaloney> Actually that's way handy
<rick_h> cool
<wolfger> rick_h: that's an awesome photo
<rick_h> wolfger:  yea, had some great views hiking out
<greg-g> I use that go script
<greg-g> Well used. I now use glowing bear and my mouse
<rick_h> hah, I was looking into glowing bear
<greg-g> I know, I'm a heathen :)
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-23
<greg-g> man it's early
<rick_h> greg-g:  why up so early?
<greg-g> Australians
<rick_h> but they're up in your afternoon
<greg-g> full time job volunteer :/
<cmaloney> Good morning
<rick_h> party
<jrwren> how do I get me one of them full time volunteers?
<greg-g> sorry, volunteer with a full time job so she can't meet during the day her time
<greg-g> and, I think full time volunteer == unemployed :)
<jrwren> you say unemployed, I say retired. :p
<greg-g> yeah, I want that too :)
<cmaloney> Temprarily unemployed
<cmaloney> This is my morning: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57168030/django-with-legacy-database-and-foreign-keys-where-id-0
<cmaloney> And if one more person says "Use PostgreSQL" I  will make them eat their tongue.
<waldo323> doesn't sound tasty
<jrwren> ORM around existing database is always a pain IMO
<cmaloney> Yeah, honestly at this point I'm wondering how much a time machine would cost
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-25
<zarozombie> cmaloney: that looks painful (stack overflow)
<cmaloney> It's fun, for sure.
<cmaloney> I think I have a workaround though.
<rick_h> wow...https://twitter.com/thefarseeker/status/1154180115078586368
<greg-g> I saw a random internet person say recently how in the future when electric cars are the norm/gas powered are barely still around except in special cases that knowing why the right pedal is called the "gas pedal" will be old-timey knowledge
<rick_h> hah, yea basically our world will turn into things like "do you know why they say sleep tight?"
<jrwren> accelerator might take over common use
<cmaloney> Just like "12V adapter" took over for "Cigarette Lighter"
<cmaloney> Like, why would you have a large barrel with 12V handy in a vehicle
<mrgoodcat> jrwren: i'd be surprised. replacing 3 letter 1 syllable word with 5 syllable word for common use? not likely
<jrwren> true
<cmaloney> http://www.libsdl.org/download-2.0.php
<cmaloney> * Removed the Mir video driver in favor of Wayland
#ubuntu-us-mi 2019-07-26
<waldo323> good morning
<rick_h> party
<waldo323> does anyone have experience with a good knowledge base software which users actually use and is easy to maintain?
<widox> morning
<widox> haha. does such a thing exist?!
<widox> maybe if you remove the qualifier of "good", email may fit that ;)
<rick_h> waldo323:  all I can say is we're using discourse now as the "new" thing for tracking docs/conversations/knowledge
<rick_h> working out "ok", not perfect
<widox> isn't that more of a forum software?
<rick_h> kind of, you can make "wiki" like setups with it
<rick_h> and we use it a lot for posting documentation, allowing comments, updating, indexing, etc
<waldo323> from my initialy look it definitely looks worth checking to see if it'd fit us
<widox> huh, ok i havne't seen it used like that
<rick_h> we've actually got a static generator tool that dumps our docs section out to static html and provides the docs at jaas.ai/docs
<rick_h> so we edit/track docs in discourse in a "category" there and then they sync out to static pages for indexing and the like
<widox> oh neat
<cmaloney> Discourse really hurts my attention
<cmaloney> I can't really follow conversations on it
<jrwren> same, bad UI, like all forums
<greg-g> we use... wait for... mediawiki :P
<greg-g> *it
<jrwren> ya don't say?
<greg-g> if we didn't who would? :)
<rick_h> greg-g:  :)
<jrwren> i feel like 15yrs ago this would have been much bigger news: https://home.cern/news/news/computing/migrating-open-source-technologies
<_stink_> still fun to hear!
<cmaloney> Yeah, I'll never get tired of places moving to OSS
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-20
<cmaloney> morning
<_stink_> yo
<greg-g> a _stink_ ?
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-22
<cmaloney> https://pluspora.com/posts/4063310
<cmaloney> also: morning
<_stink_> hahaha
<cmaloney> https://www.pyohio.org/2020/
<cmaloney> https://gettogether.community/events/6441/coffee-house-coders-regular-meeting/
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-23
<jrwren> remember when someone did research into using h264 for VLC but said it wasn't a good solution?  https://mtlynch.io/tinypilot/  I think their research was flawed.
<cmaloney> Why does this feel like a shit way of reimplimenting RDP?
<_stink_> emotional roller coaster for me
<_stink_> when i read "under $100", my cheapskate brain got angry.  that's not cheap!
<_stink_> then when i read the proof of concept name, Key Mime Pi
<_stink_> i felt great joy
<jrwren> why would it be shit? How do virtual game companies work?
<cmaloney> Maybe I'm just not understanding the point
<cmaloney> I'm slow. :)
<jrwren> the point I want is for things like YT videos to flawlessly play in my remote session.
<jrwren> nvidia moonlight stream, remotr, someo thers all do it, why isn't an open source equivalent widespread to replace VNC and remote X?
<cmaloney> Honestly if we could get decent compression for X I'd be a happy camper
<jrwren> yeah, h264 or 5, or AV1 is decent compression.
<jrwren> I miss the days of LBX, but XRENDER basically made it pointless.
<cmaloney> I'm still in the camp that X is still a great protocol, but I know I'm in a vanishing minority
<jrwren> I am too, but since nothing uses it, it is rather pointless.
<jrwren> It is a dead protocol and GL is used on top of it instead.
<cmaloney> Yeah, I think GL pretty much toasted it
<jrwren> when everything is GLX or ____, it isn't really the X protocol being used.
<cmaloney> and I know it's a security nightmare
<jrwren> wtf is that other one that gets used for drawing by everytrhing?
<cmaloney> erm
<cmaloney> Vulkan?
<jrwren> nah, that is just opengl ;)
<jrwren> cairo
<cmaloney> God, I'm drawing a blank
<cmaloney> I thought Cairo was more of a GNOME drawing thing
<cmaloney> for layout stuff.
<jrwren> it started that way, but AIUI, it is generic and low level enough that things flipped and now QT and GTK are implemented in cairo
<cmaloney> Huh. I'll have to look into it again
<cmaloney> last I used it was for some PDF rendering for Pango / Weezyprint
<cmaloney> last I thought about it, actually
<cmaloney> It would make sense though
<jrwren> i see it come up in things like, "oh we can run GTK in a web browser now" and the reason they can is because they are using cairo
<cmaloney> Ah, neat
<jrwren> related: https://blogs.igalia.com/itoral/2020/07/23/v3dv_vulkan_driver_update/
<jrwren> :)
<cmaloney> Nice!
#ubuntu-us-mi 2020-07-24
<cmaloney> morning
<jrwren> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtu-w28cbbI&feature=youtu.be if you are retro computer nerd you might like
<jrwren> it is live streaming https://www.kansasfest.org convention for apple 2
<cmaloney> I think there was also the vintage compute festival that either did or was doing something similar
<_stink_> fun!
<Scary_Guy> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtu-w28cbbI&feature=youtu.be
<Scary_Guy> Oops, didn't realise I pasted into the wrong channel, disregard
<Scary_Guy> Also I like how they spent the first 40 someodd minutes trying to figure out how to use Zoom.  Also, shame on them for using Zoom
<_stink_> is the Apple II client for zoom secure? :D
