#launchpad 2004-11-01
(dilys/#launchpad) Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: fixed regression malone bugs; vastly simplified event handling in the process with multi-subscription adapters. no, seriously. (patch-659)
(spiv/#launchpad) Woah, multi-subscription adapters.
(spiv/#launchpad) I'm glad that they're actually useful :)
<BradB> yep, i just cut out a good 100 lines of code by using them
<BradB> and a package
<BradB> jblack: you can hammer my machine for a little while now, if you want
<jblack> bradb: Thanks
<jblack> I HATE OS X
<ddaa> jblack: I suggest you mail Apple a request to assign copyright to the FSF :-P
<jblack> No. 
<ddaa> How is the profiling going?
<jblack> I'd rather the os, the code, the developers, and everything else associated get buried in some unmarked mass grave in the middle of death valley
<jblack> still trying to compile tla. 
<ddaa> Frankly macos is the only os around with a half decent user experience...
<ddaa> Too bat it's non-free.
<ddaa> jblack: getting anywhere?
<ddaa> Last time I tried to compile something my hand on osx (w/o using fink) I just hit a wall of mystery. But limi told me the situation has improved.
<jblack> Thought I was, but I'm stuck here: cc: Internal error: Bus error (program /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/cpp-precomp)
<ddaa> Mh... there should be an option to disable precompiled headers somewhere.
<ddaa> That's a funky new features they 
<jblack> is that what it is? 
<ddaa> paid for, and which dramatically cut their build time, but it obviously was not well tested enough.
<ddaa> "cpp-precomp" really sounds something like that has something to do with precompiled headers.
<jblack> -no-cpp-precomp (APPLE ONLY)
* ddaa is just of out a class yoda-talk
<jblack> lets try that with CFLAGS
<jblack> I think you're right
* jblack hugs ddaa
<jblack> ddaa: I don't even need to profile this.
<jblack> badb's machine is taking about 3 seconds per unit-pow2-array tests
<ddaa> meaning?
<jblack> meaning its a really slow, slow machine
<ddaa> What model is it?
<jblack> how do I know? 
<ddaa> MacOS X machines do not tend to be slow slow...
<ddaa> Ask him...
<ddaa> BradB|food: what model is your macintosh?
<jblack> let me put it this way. Make test has been running 5 minutes, and its still going
<ddaa> Okay, started make test here, on my machine where tla performs reasonably well...
<jblack> total wallclock exceeded 6 min
<jblack> and make test didn't even pass
<ddaa> ho, has tla mv been fixed to behave more like regular mv in 1.2.2rc2?
<jblack> not that I remember
<ddaa> Wall clock time here 3m50, that does not account for 1hour star-merges.
<jblack> wow. Takes me less than a minute
<ddaa> I saw the mv test cases, so I was a bit surprised.
<ddaa> my machine is a PIII 660 MHz... not exactly today's top of the line.
<ddaa> But quite top of the line when I bought it, five years ago.
<jblack> First, I'm going to profile library-add rf/lp--d--0--patch-599
* debonzi goes for dinner
<BradB|food> ddaa: the machine isn't slow, the filesystem is
<jblack> hi elmo, how are you? 
<BradB|food> ddaa: it's a pb g4, the second most recent 15"
<jblack> bradb: Your processor is certainly slow. pow2 tests on my machine take about 1/2 a second each. on yours, about 3 seconds each. 
<ddaa> BradB|food: duh and what ram do you have? 256M or something?
<ddaa> jblack: it's maybe just that gcc sucks.
<BradB|food> only 256M, unfortunately
<ddaa> BradB|food: what cpu freq.
<BradB|food> 867 MHz
<ddaa> Laptops have slow disks, having a ton of ram us essential for decent performance.
<ddaa> Bah, I'm pretty convinced that the pb is the fs. But what exactly?
<BradB|food> does ext3 do zero-filling?
<jblack> I doubt it
<BradB|food> hfs+ does; apple says that tends to be a bottleneck
<ddaa> Like, we might find out that on warm cache stat() is one order of magnitude slower than on reiserfs.
<ddaa> What's zero-filling?
<BradB|food> ddaa: writing zeros on the unused part of a disk allocated to a given file
<ddaa> ??? you mean a part of the disk allocated to the file which is not actually used by the file?
<BradB|food> yes
<ddaa> What purpose could that serve???
<BradB|food> security, of course
<ddaa> Come on...
<ddaa> Unused disk space is unused. It's security neutral.
* ddaa switches
<ddaa> I do not see how that improves security, can you teach me?
<sabdfl> guys, we have a bunch of bad commits
<sabdfl>  def ProductBugAssignmentFactory(context, **kw):
<sabdfl> -    pba = ProductBugAssignment(bug=context.context.bug, **kw)
<sabdfl> -    product_assigned = BugAssignedProductAddedEvent(
<sabdfl> -        Bug.get(context.context.bug), pba)
<sabdfl> -    notify(product_assigned)
<sabdfl> -    return pba
<sabdfl> +    return ProductBugAssignment(bug=context.context.bug, **kw)
<sabdfl> this was code that i merged into the file this afternoon
<BradB|food> sabdfl: dude, those are good commits. :)
<BradB|food> major simplifications.
<BradB|food> i undid what i did, because i found a much simpler way to do what i was trying to do with events.
<sabdfl> BradB|food: dude, i spent two hours merging your first round of changes
<sabdfl> :-/
<BradB|food> ouch. :/
<BradB|food> well, the good news is that i cut out a good 100 lines of code and a package.
<BradB|food> i didn't know about "multi-subscription adapters" until jim told me :)
<sabdfl> so we both spent hours undoing one another's work :-)
<ddaa> <troll>Maybe that's an argument against vcs tools which encourage too much concurrency, we need worse tool to prevent people from stepping on each others toes</troll>
<BradB|food> sabdfl: emmm, kind of, but you moved things around. i undid my work.
<sabdfl> no worries
<sabdfl> i'm relieved it wasn't a tla issue :-)
<sabdfl> at least the system works
<BradB|food> nope, it's all good. and simplified.
<sabdfl> can you teach me about multi-subscription adapters?
<BradB|food> sure, to the extent that i understand them. :)
<BradB|food> so, basically, the problem to be solved was: "how do i send an email when foo is added to a bug?"
<BradB|food> the answer was: events.
<BradB|food> the next question became: how do i fire off an event when a foo is added to a bug?
<BradB|food> my first answer was to create an IFooAddedEvent
<BradB|food> then manually go into the FooFactory, and call notify(some_event_obj)
<BradB|food> which was an instance of an IFooAddedEvent
<BradB|food> then have my handler, a simple python func, send of an email to CC'd people saying that a foo was added, providing the relevant details.
<BradB|food> at first, this seems pretty interesting.
<BradB|food> but then you realize, crap, there's about 7-8 things that can be added to a bug. :/
<BradB|food> this turns into a lot of code, zcml, and tediousness. every time you want to support sending a notification on something being added to a bug, you have to:
<BradB|food> 1. add and IFooAddedEvent.
<BradB|food> 2. Create a FooAddedEvent.
<sabdfl> ok
<BradB|food> 3. Modify the factory to create a FooAddedEvent and notify()
<BradB|food> 4. write the handler
<BradB|food> 5. configure the ZCML
<BradB|food> so, scrap that...multi-subscription adapters!
<BradB|food> when an object is added, z3 fires of an ObjectCreatedEvent
<BradB|food> so, forget added all those special event interfaces and classes, you can now do something like this in ZCML:
<sabdfl> z3? even if the object is an sqlobject?
<BradB|food> yes, it doesn't matter
<BradB|food> storage is an implementation detail
<BradB|food> here's the ZCML magic:
<BradB|food> <subscriber
<BradB|food>    for="canonical.launchpad.interfaces.IBugProductInfestation
<BradB|food>         zope.app.event.interfaces.IObjectCreatedEvent"
<BradB|food>    factory="canonical.launchpad.mailnotification.notify_bug_product_infestation_added" />
<BradB|food> this says, "for an IObjectCreatedEvent that happened on an IBugProductInfestation, call notify_bug_product_infestation_added"
<BradB|food> so, cool, no more having to create a special event called "IBugProductInfestationAdded"
<BradB|food> notify_bug_product_infestation_added is just a simple python func that sends an email. it gets called like notify_bug_product_infestation_added(product_infested, event)
<sabdfl> how does zope know to pass a product to notify_bug_product_infestation_added
<BradB|food> the for attribute in that config is the "multi-subscription adapter", because it's subscribing not just to the IObjectCreatedEvent, but the IObjectCreatedEvent for an IBugProductInfestation.
<BradB|food> well, it passes an bugproductinfestation
<BradB|food> s/an/a/
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> and that knows it's product
<sabdfl> gotcha
<BradB|food> yep
<ddaa> BradB|food: about explicit tag
<ddaa> you should now that they currently make tla actually run more slowly :-)
<BradB|food> sabdfl: so when i found this out, i was able to delete the whole events package i had created :)
<ddaa> BradB|food: which i undertand is a major concern for you.
<BradB> ddaa: They're our policy.
<BradB> But that isn't the bottleneck. :)
<BradB> sabdfl: haven't quite figured out how i'll figure out what changed on edits though.
<sabdfl> ddaa: the alternative is to make the launchpad team run much more slowly :-)
<ddaa> sabdfl: yeah... ideally tla 
<ddaa> rm and tla mv would be sane.
<ddaa> But unfortunately that is not an ideal world.
<sabdfl> sane? i think they work just fine
<ddaa> "tla mv foo bar baz/" works
<sabdfl> i dn't think is't sensible to advocate mixing tht revision control system semantics into the actual files
<ddaa> if you push explicit tags, people will have to use tla mv/rm anyway.
<sabdfl> for example, we are currently serving up HTML that includes arch tags in it
<sabdfl> that's not sane
<ddaa> So, if they "work just fine" they can handle mixed tagline/explict, and there is not point in using explicit tags.
<ddaa> I mean, explicit tags as a policy.
<ddaa> It is sure not sane to serve arch-tag in html pages.
<BradB> jblack: you're gonna start a fire in my apt, i think. :P
<ddaa> sabdfl: the only reason I understand behind that policy is that tla rm/mv would be too broken to handle tagline files transparently.
<limi> BradB: he's bouncing on your poor PB? ;)
<BradB> bigtime!
<limi> BradB: what model is it?
<BradB> pb g4, second most recent 15"
<sabdfl> ddaa: there's more to it than that
<ddaa> I'm sure there is.
<jblack> bradb: how so? 
<jblack> All I did was library-add rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0--patch-599
<jblack> It's up to 93, so its got about 5 hours to go. 
<BradB> owwwhohowwwewwwch
<ddaa> jblack: I believe 
<ddaa> BradB got burnt...
<BradB> :P my fan is going non-stop
<jblack> bradb: I really don't see how you can call this a nice machine. :)
<BradB> did i call it a nice machine?
<BradB> it's arse
<BradB> i'm trying to not hate though
<jblack> want me to call it quits? 
<stub> jblack: Let me know if you need some tests run on a gruntier OSX box - I can probably get access to one at old work (but I won't be able to give access from the internet)
<BradB> it's up to you. :) there's clearly a lot to improve about tla/arch on os x, but i'm not one to belabour the point. i gave up long ago on it being sane to use on os x.
<limi> BradB: have you tried UFS?
<BradB> no, but i've thought about it
* limi suspects HFS+ is really crappy
<BradB> yeah, we know that HFS+ sucks :)
<limi> BradB: want a repartitioning tool?
<limi> so you can test it?
<limi> it works really well
<BradB> limi: i had that at mark's too :) didn't bother using it.
<limi> I used it to make space for Ubuntu
<jblack> strub: Nah. Its the nongruntiness I was interested in.
<limi> super simple
<BradB> i've only got one machine right now; if this thing dies, i'm taking my life with it.
<limi> iSync ;)
<BradB> iPod mini!
<BradB> i've got a backup, but ach, i dunno
<limi> or that ;)
<limi> BradB: it's pretty much foolproof
<jblack> bradb: Actually, as I've chased this down, the ghost has evaporated.
<BradB> limi: famous last words!
<limi> I can hold your hand over the phone if you want ;)
<BradB> i'm not worried about how to use it :)
<BradB> i'm worried about murphy's law
<limi> I understand
<limi> I'm in the same situation
<limi> but decided "fuck it, all the important stuff is backed up or in an SVN repo anyway"
<stub> BradB: An option might be an external firewire drive (which can double as backup for your life^h^h^h^hosx disk
<BradB> stub: Yep, I already have an iPod mini
* limi has that too, but the 250GB of mp3 occupies that ;)
<stub> BradB: I meant installing Ubuntu on the external drive (heck... you might be able to get it to boot of the iPod for that matter.... but it might not play music any more ;) )
<limi> the Mac can boot from iPod, yes
<BradB> stub: heh, that'd be cool
<stub> iBuntu :-)
<limi> it's pretty nice when you're used to the moronic PC architecture
<BradB> hah!
<stub> So.... all these events creating emails and whatnot... is this going to cause havoc with writing unit tests?
<BradB> with the functional tests, it's to be expected in a way.
<stub> Hmm... the email spoolie thing is good, as tests can check for new files and examine them. I had to implement that myself in Z2 :-)
* stub goes and reads the page test docs
<BradB> i'm not using z3's mail machinery right now
<BradB> i wrote a little module to be the standard way to send email in LP. canonical.launchpad.mail
<sabdfl> lifeless: up?
<jblack> I haven't seen him yet.
<stub> SteveA: Ping
<stub> BradB|away: I'm working on the Z3 transactional email now
<lifeless> host lifeless-38.ip6.progsoc.uts.edu.au
<lifeless> bah
<jblack> Hey lifeless! 
<jblack> Having fun tonighbt? 
(dilys/#launchpad) Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Replace stub implementation in mail.py, now using transactional goodness (patch-660)
(dilys/#launchpad) New bug 2127 for Launchpad/Launchpad: Simple configuration information
(dilys/#launchpad) https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2127
<stub> Morning Dave. I fixed up some bits and pieces in checkwatches.py yesterday, and plugged it into the main test runner so people now if they break it again.
(dilys/#launchpad) Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Mail stuff including stub implementation for development (patch-661)
<SteveA> stub: ping
<SteveA> stub: pong
<stub> I forget
<SteveA> Are the set of Person.ids of canonical staff the same in the production database as in the sample data we use while developing launchpad?
* SteveA pings stub to see if he knows
<stub> I doubt it
<stub> And anything that relies on hardcoded id's is broken
<SteveA> stub: see email to mark that I cc-ed you into just now.
<stub> SteveA: Any idea which ftesting.zcml is being used? I've stuck deliberate syntax errors into it and nothing complains :-(
<SteveA> oh
<SteveA> shite
<SteveA> that's next on my "make tests better" list then
<stub> I suspect that is why a lot of the tests are failing (unable to locate 'Utilities')
<SteveA> which tests?
<sabdfl> morning all
<sabdfl> yesterday i needed to tweak ftesting.zcml in the top directory to get page tests to work
<sabdfl> it was including an sql.zcml file from malone or doap that i'd eliminated
<sabdfl> stub, maybe that's the cause / solution to your test problem
<sabdfl> lifeless: any news on x.org in arch?
<sabdfl> and xfree86 too?
<stub> sabdfl: Were you getting an error message before you removed the offending line?
<stub> SteveA: Don't worry - I think I know what I was doing wrong
<sabdfl> stub: yes
<sabdfl> i reduced the sql.py to nothing and then removed it from it's local configure.zcml and deleted the file
<sabdfl> then the tests all failed, when they had run before when it had nothing in it
<sabdfl> turns out the sql.py was being included from ftesting.zcml which was only being used in the tests
<sabdfl> so it would run fine, just not test fine
<sabdfl> editing ftesting and removing the import of that sql.zcml fixed it
<stub> SteveA: Is there a way to use a Unittest test harness like FunctionalTestCase with doctests?
<SteveA> stub: yes, there is.  I'd need to look it up, though.  There are examples in the zope3 source tree, for the .txt doctests.
<stub> zope/app/tests/test_functional.py
<sabdfl> SteveA: any update on the moin / zwiki, and zwiki / preview status?
<SteveA> preview is in the latest zwiki
<SteveA> moin without tables is in the latest zwiki.  Simon Michael hasn't done the tables work yet.  I've extended the bounty until Monday, but I don't think he'll do it, as he was asking questions about a larger bounty for it to be done quickly.
<SteveA> I've been asking around to see if someone else wants to do the tables work.  It occured to me that lalo might want to do it...
<SteveA> although getting him money is a pita
<SteveA> morning brad
<BradB> hi
<SteveA> roche's pointers on doing cacheing look pretty straightforward.  what do you think?
<lulu> BradB: Morning!  just spoke to Thom - he can do the first one, but needs you to help on 2&3 if you could, Brad.
<BradB> SteveA, lulu: I'm not sure if that solution solves the full-page caching issues. (e.g. Apache caches /foo, accessed by an anon user, then I go to access /foo and get a cache hit, and it makes it look like i'm not logged in.)
<BradB> SteveA: I don't understand how uncommenting that line of Python is of any use either, because it's setting Last-Modified to time.time().
* BradB takes a look at the code for context
<BradB> oh yeah, that makes more sense; still not sure about the full page caching problem though.
<SteveA> the main thing I'm concerned about is cacheing pages when someone is logged in
<BradB> caching not-logged-in pages is just as much of a problem though
<BradB> because it gives the impression that "the plone site just logged me out" :)
<sabdfl> SteveA: w.r.t. moin in zwiki
<sabdfl> moin tables suck
<BradB> and prevents one from doing editing
<sabdfl> zwiki already supports html reStructuredText and StructuredText
<carlos> morning
<sabdfl> what are the tables like in ReST?
<lifeless> sabdfl: not yet, will try that this tomorrow
<lifeless> I have tarballs from daniels for it though
<SteveA> sabdfl: http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickref.html#tables
<SteveA> so, similar, but not quite so annoying
<BradB> SteveA: lulu said you were verifying the CC patch; did you take the thing that you used to see the base64 hole and try it again on site-edit now that the patch is in?
<SteveA> will do so shortly
<Kinnison> Python idiom question... I have a dict of dicts. I want to to create entries in the first dict when I encounter them in the input data. In lua I'd do something like: foo[key]  = foo[key]  or {}
<Kinnison> What's the python idiom?
<Kinnison> is it just:
<Kinnison> if key not in foo: foo[key]  = {}
<Kinnison> ?
<elmo_> .setdefault
<Kinnison> that'd give the same dict to each new key wouldn't it?
<SteveA> Please please never use the boolean short-circuit stuff as a short-cut for an "if" statement.
<Kinnison> SteveA: okay. It's a common Lua idiom you see :-)
<SteveA> Lalo used loads of these in the rosetta code, and they are just so hard to read later.
<Kinnison> SteveA: I will use the if statement
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA> setdefault is probably the way to go, as elmo says
<SteveA> it would give a new dict to each new key
<Kinnison> >>> bar={}
<Kinnison> >>> bar.setdefault({})
<Kinnison> TypeError: dict objects are unhashable
<Kinnison> is that wrong?
<SteveA> the only time you'll get the same dict is if the dict constructor (that is, {}) appears at the module level or as the default value of a function argument.
<SteveA> you can't use a dict object as a key
<SteveA> nor a list
<SteveA> nor anything mutable
<stub> bar.setdefault(key,{})
<SteveA> it must be hashable
<Kinnison> oh, gotcha
<Kinnison> stub: I see
* Kinnison thought it was dict.setdefault(defaultvalue)
<SteveA> if you want to store a dict as a key, store tuple(mydict.items())
<Kinnison> and then dict[unknownkey]  would autovivify
<BradB> perler!
* Kinnison thanks you
<Kinnison> If I have a value and a dbschema class which maps name->value; is there an easy way to get a name back out of the class?
<Kinnison> E.g. is there FooSchema.nameOf(thisvalue) or something?
<SteveA> stub: I've looked at the cookies.  They're always the same, so open to a replay attack.
<stub> Yes - can't avoid that
<SteveA> can't use the time as a salt, and reject too old cookies?
<Kinnison> http://www.excessus.demon.co.uk/misc-hacks/#cookie
<stub> If you want to reject old cookies, that would work. Or you could just encode the time in with the rest of the encrypted data.
<Kinnison> I'm not suggesting you *use* mdw's cookie program; but it's a good place to crib ideas from
<SteveA> still, it is better than plaintext.  the worst an attacker can do is write crap all over the UL website.
<SteveA> they can't easily get the password out to use against launchpad
<SteveA> so, I'd be happy to go ahead and use what we have at the moment.
<sabdfl> is there a password on this channel?
<SteveA> but, it would be nice to put the time in there make only a small window for replays. 
<stub> nope
<sabdfl> limi's not able to get in at the mo
<SteveA> limi: ?
<SteveA> --> limi (~limi@host217-37-231-28.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #launchpad
<SteveA> just above stub saying "yes - can't avoid that
<SteveA> "
<BradB> This would seem to merit an emergency upgrade to plone.org
<BradB> (just confirmed that is has the bug, but that's not surprising)
<SteveA> plone.org sends plaintext passwords in cookies?
<BradB> base64 encoded u:p.
<SteveA> wonder if zope.org does too
<lifeless> well at least its not plaintext :)
<SteveA> let's upgrade to rot13
<BradB> lifeless: heh, might as well be :P
* lifeless was trolling
<BradB> yeah yeah, i know :P
<stub> Hey - CookieCrumber has always worked like that. Its a feature :)
* BradB shreaks for having an account on plone.org
* lifeless and is tired
<BradB> SteveA: yep, zope.org too. shit.
<SteveA> hello again limi
<limi> Sir Alexander
<limi> how's Lithuania?
<SteveA> less cold
<SteveA> less wet
<SteveA> not so bad at the moment
<limi> London also has strange weather
<limi> sun and stuff ;)
<BradB> SteveA: there's a meeting shortly, eh?
<SteveA> yes
<BradB> d29vaG9v
<BradB> (that was "woohoo" in base64)
<sabdfl> do we expose dbschema ENUM's to tal in a way that makes it easy to get the value, title and description?
<BradB> meeting time?
<SteveA> sabdfl: yes.  bug/severity/lp:BugSeverity/description  or something like that
<SteveA> BradB: I need to workrave for a couple of minutes
<sabdfl> SteveA: how do i add methods to that object?
<sabdfl> #2101
<SteveA> BradB, lulu: I've copied you into an email to Viktorija Zaksiene, about making the cacheing work on the plone site.
<BradB> ah, ok, cool
<SteveA> BradB: copied you in in case there's changes that need to be made on the filesystem code.
<lulu> SteveA: saw that - thanks Stevo.
<SteveA> sabdfl: not sure what you want to do. 
<limi> SteveA: Mark is talking about the shorthand code I need for the portlets
* SteveA workraves for 3 mins
<limi> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2101
(spiv/#launchpad) Meeting time?
<SteveA> in 3 mins, sharp!
(spiv/#launchpad) Ok.
<SteveA> hi everyone.  let's have a lunchpad meeting.
* Kinnison raises his hand to indicate presence
* spiv is here
<SteveA> all present please follow Kinnison's example
* SteveA raises hand too
<sabdfl> let's go
<SteveA> debonzi sends apologies
* BradB ready to rock
* carlos here too
<SteveA> Kinnison needs to leave soon
* limi is here
<SteveA> Malone -- where are we at?
<BradB> we need to:
<SteveA> what's been done since last week's meeting?
<limi> eek, the dash-dash is creeping into your everyday language, SteveA
<BradB> 1. implemented notification on edits
<sabdfl> code has been restructured
<BradB> 2. implement incoming email
<limi> Malone is more sexy!
<sabdfl> eye candy
<BradB> 3. get a doctest suite that is enough to avoid me spending more time on regression fixes
<BradB> 4. fix a bug such that ownerID isn't always set to 1
<sabdfl> several page tests, not as many as doap
<sabdfl> BradB: throughout?
<limi> first static version of the search/selection widget is in, using dummy data at the moment
<BradB> sabdfl: yeah
<sabdfl> BradB: great
<BradB> that might not be a problem specific to malone either
<SteveA> so, you very much need me to fix the page test maker so that it doesn't break so much
<SteveA> (I'm working on it)
<BradB> since last week, i've mainly spent time on keeping up with regression fixes from refactoring, and implemented notification for everything that can be added to a bug
<SteveA> are you doing outgoing email too?
<BradB> (and, of course, plone-related stuff)
<stub> Hmm.. I had owner working on Bug... so that can be used as a basis for the other objects.
<sabdfl> SteveA: instead of running launchpad and the proxy separately, can we have the pagetest script fire them up together?
<BradB> SteveA: it's done for things that can be added; it's not done for edits yet.
<SteveA> sabdfl: yes, we can
<stub> I refactored the outgoing email sending stuff majorly today, but I don't think anyone else has had a change to look at it yet.
<BradB> you mean mailnotification.py?
<stub> mail.py 
<BradB> ah
<sabdfl> stub: looked good to me
<SteveA> stub: I want to make outgoing email have a "pagetests" mode where it won't send the email, but will store it in a list of emails, that has views under /emails/...  so that it can be queried via pagetests
<stub> There is a test harness for email - just trying to get the tests for the testharness working now.
<limi> woo, offline mode - will we get MS Exchange support too? :] 
<stub> Emails just get stored in memory, where the tests can find them trivially
<SteveA> great.  I also want to make email easily tested via normal pagetests
<SteveA> on releasing malone for use... 
<SteveA> what things are left to do?
<BradB> for dogfooding, just testing
<BradB> for general release, the four things i mentioned above, plus more testing
<BradB> and, of course, deciding on where to put it and who'll deploy it
<SteveA> do the rest of the team agree that we can start dogfooding right away?
<SteveA> we're going to put is on mawson, right?
<sabdfl> yes
<SteveA> who will do that?
<stub> The ownership bug could cause Mark to get spam atm...
<BradB> for dogfooding? i don't think so.
<stub> Oh... scratch that comment..
<SteveA> we need to decide on the port it will run on, and get elmo or thom to set up the vhosting appropriately
<Kinnison> sabdfl: lucille just created a set of warty overrides which look and smell almost perfect
<sabdfl> Kinnison: d29vaG9v!
* Kinnison grins
<SteveA> BradB: will you be in charge of deploying malone on mawson?
* sabdfl wonders how bad overrides really smell
<BradB> SteveA: sure
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA> start it today?
<BradB> SteveA: sure
<sabdfl> we can use the bugzilla watch feature to watch older launchpad bugs
<SteveA> ok.  let's aim to have malone dogfood edition running by the end of (your) today
<stub> I can take over my tomorrow if there are still things to do.
<limi> Director's Cut
<Kinnison> sabdfl: These ones smell like freshly baked bread when you're really hungry
<limi> Warts & All
<sabdfl> stub: i just realised we probably need need to support authenticated connections to remote bug systems
<stub> sabdfl: Tell me about it. The test suite is talking to bugzilla.org because our bugzillas are all protected.
<SteveA> can we wrap up the malone part of this meeting shortly?
<sabdfl> stub, ok let's discuss oob
<SteveA> spiv and Kinnison: soyuz and lucille?
<sabdfl> BradB: can we set a systemwide cc for malone emails?
<Kinnison> lucille since last week....
<SteveA> in case anyone missed it, spiv is the new doap dealer, and is a friend of foaf
<Kinnison> I now have a cleaner dataset wrt. sections
<BradB> sabdfl: sure
(spiv/#launchpad) SteveA: :)
<Kinnison> lucille just completed a perfect publishOverrides() of the warty snapshot I'm working with
<Kinnison> There's now a pile of new views and stuff I'm going to ask stub to integrate into the db soon
<SteveA> what does that mean?
<BradB> sabdfl: it can be hacked in quickly and easily enough, but yeah, we need plenty more UI there for collector-wide config
<Kinnison> the overrides tell the tools which build Sources and Packages files how/where to put everything
<Kinnison> It's the second-to-last stage in generating apt-gettable archives
<SteveA> why is it called an override?
<SteveA> (just trying to get my head around it)
<Kinnison> It's called an override because it theoretically differs from the values which may be stored in the package itself
<sabdfl> SteveA: the joys of Katie naming
<SteveA> i see
<Kinnison> E.g. the package may say "admin" but we put it in "libs"
<sabdfl> i think we should call it DistroPackagePolicy
* SteveA points at the glossary
<Kinnison> sabdfl: In the db they're just the section columns etc in the Publishing tables
<sabdfl> i don't think we should be exporting the overrides terminology to end-user derivatives
<BradB> sabdfl, stub: do you guys want to/have more time to test malone today before i put it on mawson?
<Kinnison> sabdfl: it's only at the level where we're outputting stuff for apt-ftparchive to work on that we touch the term 'override' at all
<sabdfl> it should be "Define your package selection policy"
<Kinnison> sabdfl: this is outside the scope of lucille currently
<sabdfl> dude, i know how this stuff works, the table names bubble up to the UI
<sabdfl> i just found a bunch of my own UI that talks about "product" and changed it to "upstream" because it's clearer in that context
<Kinnison> the word 'override' only features in the views which lucille uses to pull the data out for the override files
<Kinnison> I would hope that the UI will never touch those views
<stub> BradB: I was just going to finish of the mail stuff before bed.
<sabdfl> Kinnison: sure, but i think, since we are creating the tables, we should call them what we would be happy to expose
<sabdfl> Kinnison: it always does though
<Kinnison> sabdfl: the tables are the publishing tables; or do you mean we should name the views as though we want to expose them too?
<sabdfl> packagepolicy or something thereabouts please
<sabdfl> Kinnison: if the views are good and useful, which i'm sure they are, new devs on lp will use them, and expose them, so yes
<BradB> stub: ok, i'll do the testing then
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Okay, I'll ponder on a good name for them and do that change when I do the column-rename to make them consistent with the rest of soyuz
<sabdfl> thanks
<sabdfl> anything else on lucille?
<stub> BradB: If we are using autogenerated forms, the owner fix is a trivial bit of .zcml I think. I might do that too if I have time.
<Kinnison> It's been mostly cleaning up and doing the overrides
<SteveA> getting lucille in actual use... when where how?
<BradB> stub: we are; it's getting set in all the factories
<Kinnison> stevea: I need to finish the bits of gina I have floating for making it safe for incremental use
<BradB> stub: Either way it's just a query-replace in Emacs.
<Kinnison> stevea: then we're clear to use gina to import the archive into launchpad and use lucille to export it again
<Kinnison> SteveA: Once I have the apt-gettable bits sorted of course
<stub> oic
<sabdfl> again, let's use mawson
* Kinnison nods. Mawson is a good plan
<sabdfl> aim is to have katie managing that warty / hoary archives
<sabdfl> and gina running over them constantly to keep mawson's soyuz db up to date
* Kinnison nods
<sabdfl> then we should be able to publish a "lucille version" of the archives
<sabdfl> on mawson
* Kinnison has a couple of tweaks to gina sitting waiting for me to be ready to do a pqm merge
<sabdfl> and do a lot of testing
* Kinnison nods
<Kinnison> is it okay for me to continue using zhongshan for my experiments?
<sabdfl> how the hell we'll cut over from katie to lucille for production i don't know :-)
<sabdfl> Kinnison: fine by me
<Kinnison> sabdfl: we shouldn't worry about cutting over until lucille can do uploads :-)
<sabdfl> sure, and has been well, well tested
* Kinnison nods
<sabdfl> also, build management
<Kinnison> katie may be a bit cranky; but she's very well tested
<sabdfl> then we get to the point where maintainers can steer their package through the whole upload / build / deploy process trhough the web
* Kinnison nods
<sabdfl> at that point we can figure out the transition
<SteveA> Kinnison: any rough idea when we'll see this stuff on mawson?
<Kinnison> SteveA: My targets for lucille over the coming week... 1. Confirm the overrides look clean. 2. get apt-ftparchive doing its thing and again confirm it looks clean. 3. Get gina reliable on incremental updates. 4. Hopefully start getting it going on mawson
<sabdfl> s/overrrides/ packagepolicies/
<sabdfl> that's great progress so far, thanks Kinnison
<sabdfl> next?
<limi> Rosetta?
<SteveA> next, spiv
<limi> (if they are here)
* SteveA pings carlos and daf for later
<limi> ok
<sabdfl> spiv: around?
<carlos> SteveA: pong
(spiv/#launchpad) Ok.
<SteveA> spiv: foaf and doap plans?
<SteveA> and soyuz status plase
(spiv/#launchpad) I'll about to start tackling the doap todo list that sabdfl posted to the list yesterday.
(spiv/#launchpad) (I've been spending an unexpectedly large aount of time chasing buttress/zopeless bugs for lifeless, which has in turn found an sqlos bug)
<SteveA> what's happening with soyuz?
<sabdfl> spiv: do we have a good framework for zopeless access to the db? what's kinnison using?
(spiv/#launchpad) I'm relatively out-of-the-loop on soyuz atm.
(spiv/#launchpad) sabdfl: We will shortly.
<sabdfl> how will it be different to what kinnison is using?
<SteveA> I'll catch up with the other soyuz guys a bit later.
(spiv/#launchpad) But debonzi has done some good work moving queries out of soyuz/sql.py into the SQLObject classes.
<sabdfl> Kinnison seems to have become productive very quickly
(spiv/#launchpad) The code is starting to look vaguely neat ;)
* Kinnison is using SQLObject stuff wherever possible
<Kinnison> the only non SQLObject stuff I've got is in gina
<stub> spiv: There is a patch from Lalo that I think is still outstanding. Is that still relevant?
(spiv/#launchpad) Kinnison: I'm familiar with what the librarian does, what does lucille do?
<Kinnison> I'm currently driving most of my stuff using the db harness
(spiv/#launchpad) stub: Yes, that's part of what I've got for lifeless.
(spiv/#launchpad) That will probably get merged tomorrow unless lifeless finds more bugs.
<Kinnison> spiv: Lucille is the archive management component of soyuz. Her jobs include dealing with uploads, publishing packages to distro archives on disk etc.
(spiv/#launchpad) Kinnison: I meant with respect to db access ;)
<Kinnison> spiv: Oh; she walks all sorts of tables all over the place and gathers data; etc.
* Kinnison ponders which tables lucille currently uses
(spiv/#launchpad) Kinnison: SQLObject?
<Kinnison> spiv: Oh yes; SQLObject all the way
<SteveA> can we move on to rosetta?
(spiv/#launchpad) Ok.  I'll catch up with Kinnison later.
<SteveA> carlos: how is the rosetta alpha going?
<carlos> SteveA: well, as I said other times, we are not getting as many input as I thought we could get
<SteveA> I wonder why
<carlos> I think we should try to push real data in the game so they see it as a real system
<SteveA> is it that there aren't the products people want to translate in the system? 
<sabdfl> carlos: do we have any upstreams that are interested in using the system for their products?
<SteveA> we need to make it so that translators can scratch their own itches
<carlos> well, we don't have all products imported, only two,
<SteveA> we need to do whatever is required to get translators using rosetta, otherwise there's no point having the alpha
<carlos> sabdfl: not upstreams as it, but Lliurex, a Debian derivated distributions asked us to implement some features so they could use Rosetta
<carlos> for they translation team
<sabdfl> ok
<carlos>  /s/they/their/
<SteveA> have the alpha translators been asked what they'd like to translate?
<sabdfl> it's not necessarily the upstream maintainer that needs to like rosetta
<sabdfl> it's just somene from theupstream translation team
<carlos> SteveA: no, I will talk with daf about it
* limi can volunteer the Plone translation team
<limi> 40+ languages
<carlos> limi: that could be really good
<SteveA> there are not so many weeks left before we wnt to do a public beta of rosetta, so getting more use out of it now is important.
<sabdfl> just need one person who can act as a gateway, moving pofile patches between rosetta and upstream
<limi> carlos: shoot me a mail about it when you are ready, and I will organize it
<carlos> limi: ok, thanks
<carlos> sabdfl, SteveA: What about get a small group of translators for Ubuntu?
<limi> of course, it will take some time before people *trust* the system, but they should be willing to attempt it
<carlos> I have some people at ubuntu-es asking for translate things
<sabdfl> carlos: that's great, for things like the installer
<sabdfl> carlos: yes, go for it
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> zope3 has been released as a final, I think.  Maybe ask Phillip von W (who is on the rosetta testers list) if there's any interest getting people to translate it using rosetta?
<limi> "zope3 has been released as a final, I think" - in the neverending series of proofs why Zope Corp's PR sucks :] 
<carlos> SteveA: ok, added to my list
<sabdfl> is there a plan for us to update to zope3?
<SteveA> we should continue using snapshots of the trunk for a while yet.
<carlos> zope3, plone, ubuntu-installer and any other request from our alpha testers
<SteveA> for example, the fix to make debugging traversed things clearer will not be in this zope3 release, but on the trunk
<SteveA> it will be in the next zope3 release
<SteveA> what's been implemented recently for rosetta? what's the next lot of rosetta work to be done?
<carlos> well, the main implementation
<carlos> was the msgset split (it's being review by daf)
<carlos> after that merge we should not have big code changes
<carlos> only bug fixes and missing features implementation
<SteveA> carlos: Godefroid Chappelle, zope / plone /zope3 developer from Belgium, is interested in being a rosetta tester. gotcha@bubblenet.be
<carlos> so I think we could also concentrate on the Beta release, and integration with soyuz
<carlos> SteveA: ok, I willl add him to the alpha testers list, thanks
<SteveA> let's have a chat about rosetta tomorrow or monday
<SteveA> looking at still open bugs, things to implement next
<SteveA> we can arrange this when daf shows up
<SteveA> Anything more for rosetta?
<carlos> only...
<carlos> stub: could you review my last database request, please?
<carlos> :-)
<carlos> that's all
<SteveA> Lastly, general launchpad issues.
<SteveA> * use tla add not arch-tag: from now on
<SteveA> I'll make a checkin soon that will not allow commits that use new arch-tag:s
<BradB> * please mail the list when you introduce a new dependency, kthnx
<BradB> ;)
<SteveA> BradB: are you talking about the python-in-postgres stuff?
<sabdfl> especially one that has issues on macosx
<sabdfl> apt_pkg
<BradB> SteveA: or apt_pkg, or whatever
<SteveA> what are we doing about apt_pkg on osx ?
<BradB> kiko reported the bug; it won't get fixed anytime soon (realistically speaking)
<SteveA> does this have any bad effects on you?
<BradB> he managed to fool it into compiling, but it hung on import; was trying to do some kind of threading calls. his bug report explains it more clearly, of course. :)
<BradB> SteveA: it did, but not really anymore.
<elmo_> not being funny, but why don't we just specify linux as the development platform?
<BradB> elmo_: That was my suggestion. :)
<BradB> I confirmed before I started that OS X would be okay, but it turns out that's not true. :)
<sabdfl> i have a workaround
<sabdfl> asimple stub implementation that we knocked up for limi
<sabdfl> def ParseDepends(deptext):
<sabdfl>     return [[('macosx', '', ''),] ] 
<sabdfl> same for ParseSrcDepends
<BradB> yeah
<sabdfl> should basically work
<BradB> I'm just setting them to None, and it works fine, because I don't use Soyuz anyway
<sabdfl> dont know if we can put a wrapper in launchpad which will use that implementation on macosx and the native full implementation on linux
<sabdfl> BradB: that will likely break when they have better page tests
<sabdfl> anyhoo
<BradB> it used to make the page tests fail, but they pass now, heh heh
<SteveA> any other general launchpad things?
<SteveA> Can we have the next launchpad meeting on Wednesday next week, 12:00 UTC?
<BradB> sure
(spiv/#launchpad) Suits me.
<SteveA> I'll be on vacation from Thursday.  Back on Monday 8th.
<Kinnison> Should be fine for me
* BradB might be in toronto next week
<SteveA> Any other business.  If not...
<carlos> Wednesday is fine
<SteveA> Thanks for your patience.  We managed it in under 1 hour this time.
<SteveA> I'll summarize this meeting and send to the list for those who were absent.
<SteveA> and for those that specially requested a summary, Kinnison
* BradB goes to grab a coffee, then come back for d-day (i.e. dogfood day)
* SteveA declares the meeting over and goes to workrave a bit
<carlos> limi: where could we found the .pot / .po files from zope?
* Kinnison was about to say "Oddly, workrave hasn't bothered me today" but I just realised that means I quit it :-(
<limi> carlos: Zope 3?
<carlos> sorry
<carlos> :-)
<carlos> plone
<carlos> O:-)
<limi> oh
<limi> http://sf.net/projects/plone-i18n
<SteveA> aw crap:  lib/canonical/browser-exception.zcml 0e25fabf-8d8b-4f3d-a88a-de12fc152573_-->
<SteveA> yep -- the closing XML comment is part of the arch id
<carlos> limi: thanks
<SteveA> there are quite a few of these
<SteveA> I'm sort of inclined to remove the arch-tag: and make them have fileids
<SteveA> any objections to losing some history from 17 zcml files?
(spiv/#launchpad) Not from me.
<limi> nope
* limi almost removed one yesterday, but didn't have the balls to do it ;)
<limi> gotta keep the arch gods happy :] 
* BradB removed a package yesterday, sprouted a couple more chest hairs
<stub> SteveA: I'm messing with the zcml atm - it might cause me merge grief
<SteveA> I'm not altering those zcml files right now
<SteveA> but, maybe you'd like to?
(dilys/#launchpad) Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: lucille override publishing work (patch-662)
<stub> SteveA: I have a file in package-includes that will issue warnings if it is run in the test suite (spawns a thread). Should I turn it off by encoding that configuration directly in the zopeapp.zcml you think? (This actually looks like a z3 issue, as the z3 tests would also issue the spurious warning if the queued email delivery thingy is switched on)
<SteveA> arch tags go on to the end of the line
<SteveA> they don't stop after a normal-looking uuid
<SteveA> they go to the end of the line, with odd characters (like spaces) turned into underscores.
<SteveA> <bob2> it's a semi-bug
<stub> Cool... not only do they suck, they are buggy too :-)
<SteveA> <ddaa> Tom likes the idea that you can put advertisements/propaganda in ids.
<SteveA> <SteveA> argh!
<SteveA> <SteveA> that is so fucking lame
<SteveA> <SteveA> someone shoot tom
<stub> Mmm.... lose file revision history by trimming spurious whitespace from the end of the line, or changing character set encoding even.
<ddaa> I am seriously puzzled by what makes you think that taglines suck...
<ddaa> Mh. Yeah. They are a bit more dangerous.
<stub> Because they make me have to worry about magic id tags, which is the job of the rcs system.
<ddaa> stub: in my experience, they do not.
<SteveA> stub: can you kill the arch-tags in zcml files please?
<SteveA> seeing as you're checking in soon anyway
<stub> I havn't been game to try it, but I would assume you get into trouble if you delete them, copy files without changing them, accidently hit the wrong key and delete or change a letter. They scare me, and the whole point of rcs systems is to make you feel safe and secure.
<ddaa> Delete: will make the file untagged. For other reasons "untagged-source unrecognized" is good, so tla won't let you commit it. Copy: will cause duplicate ids, which is an inventory error, tla won't let you commit. Modify: will cause a delete-add which is very easy to spot in the "changes" output that you (I hope) always check before commiting.
<ddaa> There should maybe be a finger guard to prevent add-remove of the same file. It's never what you want to do except when you know that is what you want to do.
<ddaa> safeguard: prevent commit unless an option is given.
* SteveA adds to http://manifesto.gnuarch.org/moin.cgi/ArchWarts
<sabdfl> ddaa: (1) the revision control system should be an entirely hidden layer
<sabdfl> in other words, my content should be ignorant of the revision control system i am using
<ddaa> sabdfl: that's a valid point.
<ddaa> That philosophical, but valid,
<sabdfl> right now, for example, we are busily trying to convert thousands of files from CVS to Arch
<sabdfl> imagine if CVS REQUIRED the presence of some cvs-tag inside the file
<ddaa> sabdfl: yeah, I am aware of that :-)
<sabdfl> and Arch REQUIRED that you had something else
<sabdfl> then we couldn't do that
<sabdfl> revision control systems need to be invisible
<ddaa> Yup. The REQUIRED part is bad.
<sabdfl> .arch-id's may be a poor implementation but they at least meet this criteria
<SteveA> I'm somewhat gutted that there is no way of moving from tags inside files to explicit ids, while preserving history.
<sabdfl>  we can over time improve the implementation and use some other form of database than .arch-id's
<sabdfl> which is faster
<Kinnison> SteveA: copying the arch tag into the .arch-ids/filefoo doesn't work?
<ddaa> I'm not sure that .arch-ids is a bad idea per se.
<SteveA> apparently not.
<sabdfl> but at least, for the moment, they are correct
<sabdfl> (14:57:51) ddaa: Yup. The REQUIRED part is bad.
<sabdfl> so that brings me to part (2)
<sabdfl> revision control systems should be used consistently for different files
<sabdfl> "i tried to move my file but arch doesn't see that it's been moved"
<ddaa> sabdfl: good ol' tactic. It's not bad per se efficiency-wise, which is what I was answering.
<sabdfl> "did you use tla mv or just mv"
(spiv/#launchpad) Kinnison: No. tla id some_file... you'll see a leading i_ or x_ depending on if it's implicit or explicit.  i.e. what kind of tag it is is part of the id.
<sabdfl> "just mv like I always do"
<Kinnison> spiv: oh poo
<sabdfl> "it worked for half the files"
<sabdfl> "which half?"
<sabdfl> "everything except the jpg's"
<sabdfl> "oh, the jpgs are different becuase we odn't have arch tags inside them"
<sabdfl> "you have to work differently with arch tags"
<SteveA> spiv: but, will tla complain if a fileid starts with an i_ ?
<sabdfl> the fact that arch allows us to mv a file and preserve history is FANTASTIC
<SteveA> spiv: if so, it is treating ids as containing semantics, which is kinda wrong.
<sabdfl> it's no hardship to require that, when you do this, you use tla mv
<sabdfl> you are requiring consistent behaviour
<ddaa> sabdfl: so your point is that the fact "mv" works with tagline is a argument against using them?
<sabdfl> yes, exactly
(spiv/#launchpad) My understanding is that "tla mv" is supposed to work for both, and the fact it doesn't is a bug.
<sabdfl> it's a cute feature that fucks you in the head with users
<SteveA> how do people write docs about "arch-tag: " and keep them in arch?  turn off the implicit tagging method?
<sabdfl> it's a switch that LOOKS easy but requires detailed implementation knowledge
(spiv/#launchpad) SteveA: Not put the arch-tag text in the first or last 1k, perhaps ;)
<sabdfl> so, Canonical Arch will deprecate this altogether
<sabdfl> there's another advantage to this
(spiv/#launchpad) http://wiki.gnuarch.org/moin.cgi/ID_2dtagging_20methods has some discussion of this.
<sabdfl> if we (a) make .arch-id's the required behaviour for ALL files
(spiv/#launchpad) Including "Why I Went From Loving Tagline To Disliking It, by Colin Walters"
<sabdfl> (b) remove any mention of .archids's from the documentation, users will forget they exist
<sabdfl> and when we come up with a better implementation, users don't need to change or know anything different
<ddaa> sabdfl: users will not forget they exist, because they remove them by hand when tree-lint tells them there are explicit ids w/o associated file.
(spiv/#launchpad) (Out of curiousity, what's the problem with .arch-ids that a different implementation could solve?)
<ddaa> sabdfl: I'm quite happy that we have a design discussion about arch, and I'd like to conduct that more in depth, but I think irc is not the best medium for that.
<sabdfl> ddaa: that's a bug too
<sabdfl> removing a file from the repo should be an explicit action
<sabdfl> ddaa: we have a two week arch sprint planned for late november / early december
<ddaa> it is an explicit 
<ddaa> action
<Kinnison> As a small-time developer; if Canonical's arch didn't do tagline at all; I wouldn't use it
<ddaa> Yeah. Still I think mailing list is the best medium. It gives more time to deep thought.
<Kinnison> deprecate it by all-means; but don't prevent it
<stub> ddaa: They should have to remove them by hand. arch would bitch during commands and ask them to recover it or forget it.
<SteveA> doesn't "deprecate" mean "to be removed in a future version" ?
<SteveA> (effectively speaking)
<ddaa> sabdfl: please do me a favor and write that in a mailing list post to warthogs or launchpad.
<stub> Kinnison: If it is there, users have to learn about it because they will see it in the wild. tla needs fewer features to learn, not more.
<Kinnison>   deprecate
<Kinnison>        v 1: express strong disapproval of; deplore
<ddaa> All the points you have raised.
<ddaa> I'm sure you have talked with lifeless about it, so you know that Arch is a complex (in terms of rich interactions between simple components) 
<Kinnison> stub: I far prefer arch-tag to .arch-id wherever I can have them though :-(
<ddaa> so design changes need a lot of cool-headed consideration.
<ddaa> Because it's easy to come up with changes which appear simple at first but have unexpected effects in corner cases.
<sabdfl> Kinnison: http://wiki.gnuarch.org/moin.cgi/ID_2dtagging_20methods
<Kinnison> sabdfl: read it already
<Kinnison> sabdfl: doesn't stop me *personally* preferring arch-tag for my personal projects
<Kinnison> sabdfl: arch-tag is one of the reasons I decided to move my personal development into tla archives
<ddaa> sabdfl: I wrote most of this page.
<ddaa> at least initially.
<sabdfl> that's fine
<sabdfl> i've no problem preserving existing behaviour
<sabdfl> but i think it's necessary to strongly encourage a use pattern that leaves the maximum flexibility for changes in implementation
<sabdfl> and arch-tag doesn't
<ddaa> That's a valid point.
<Kinnison> sabdfl: as I said; deprecate it by all-means; encourage .arch-ids by default; but don't remove arch-tag or it'll annoy too many people
<sabdfl> Kinnison: agreed
* Kinnison decides that 'deprecate' is the word of the day
* Kinnison wonders if he can get it into a conversation with his father later
<ddaa> sabdfl: but please write this ML message, that will be much more conducive to a fruitful discussion than irc chat.
<stub> So if I want to stop things being sucked into our arch archive, all I would have to do is make sure I stick 'arch-tag: biteme' in every one of my source files?
<Kinnison> stub: yep
(spiv/#launchpad) stub: Well, you can set tagging-method to ignore it, I think.
(spiv/#launchpad) I think that's the default, even.
(spiv/#launchpad) stub: see the docs for "tla id-tagging-method".
<ddaa> "explicit" id-tagging method ignores taglines.
* SteveA -> food
<ddaa> SteveA: "arch-tag: " is only used by tla when the leading chars are all whitespace or punctuation.
<ddaa> In addition, an explicit tag always override a tagline.
<ddaa> In the past, (the now deprecated "implicit" tagging method), the marker was "tag: " which was found to be a practical problem.
<sabdfl> stub: where is the best place to learn about auto-generated forms?
<stub> Second half of the Z3 tutorial if it is still around. Otherwise the zope book from srichter available on the z3 wiki.
<sabdfl> i need to start work on some of the existing auto-generated forms
<sabdfl> my inclination is just to re-do them as page templates but it may just be me being a luddite
<stub> Once the form machinery went into Z3, nobody used anything else ever again except for the most trivial pages.
<stub> Its easy to knock up a simple form in the old style, but once you start adding validation, error handling etc. to make it actually look professional you see real benefits.
* Kinnison waves
* Kinnison will check-in later from wales
<stub> http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope3Book
<stub> And from page 27 onwards: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/ProgrammerTutorial/programmers_tutorial.pdf
(dilys/#launchpad) Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: fix enum descriptions for bug severity (patch-663)
<sabdfl> stub: thanks, will educate myself this evening
<BradB> elmo: How do I get to mawson?
<BradB> (via ssh'ing, to dogfood malone, that is)
<elmo_> https://wiki.canonical.com/Machines
<elmo_> oh, except you have some prehistoric fucking ssh
<elmo_> err, MachineOverview
<elmo_> anyway, same way you get to gentoo
<elmo_> bounce throught chinstrap
<lulu> BradB:ping
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Now checks for new or changes tags on merge. (patch-668)
<SteveA> that was "changed"
<SteveA> daf: hello
<SteveA> spiv: hello
<spiv> Hello.
<SteveA> have you done any more work on the xml-rpc auth server lately?
<spiv> Not since the nickname worth.k.
<spiv> work, rather.
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> there's a job coming up to integrate the shipit database with the golden database
<SteveA> and integrate shipit's auth with the golden database
<spiv> Ah.
<SteveA> to do this, shipit should use the xml-rpc auth server
<SteveA> but, we should also improve the api of the auth server
* spiv nods
<spiv> sabdfl wants the api to stop sending the salt.
<SteveA> indeed
<SteveA> we should do a new api
<SteveA> and keep the old one around until we can get the plone ode changed
<SteveA> s/ode/code/
<SteveA> the new api could run on the same port with new method names
<SteveA> or could run on a new port
<sabdfl> same port
<sabdfl> no need to switch ports just because the api is evolving
<daf> SteveA: hi
<SteveA> it is easier to turn off the old one if they run on separate ports
<SteveA> and it is clear which api is beign used -- all old or all new
<daf> spiv: have you had a chance to look at those two test bugs I filed?
<sabdfl> SteveA: we just update the server not to export the old api
<SteveA> imagine this: we get someone to update the code in plone so that it uses the new api
<SteveA> we test it, and it all works
<SteveA> so we remove the old api
<spiv> daf: The interface ones?
<daf> spiv: yep
<SteveA> and plone stops working, because one call to the old api was missed
<spiv> daf: Not really.
<daf> spiv: ok
<spiv> daf: Except in the general, "Yep, these look like bugs alright" sense ;)
<daf> :)
<SteveA> daf: I'd like to have a rosetta meeting either tomorrow or monday
<daf> SteveA: any reason why we can't do tomorrow?
<SteveA> spiv: which way would you do it?  new port or new api + old one on same port?
<SteveA> anyhow, whichever way, are the requirements for the new api clear?
<spiv> SteveA: I'm ambivalent.  Code-wise for me, it's practically no difference.
<SteveA> should we make this available over ssl?
<daf> spiv: for #2121, is it just a matter of the parameter being added to the interface?
<spiv> So if someone has a firm opinion on which way will make the transition easier, I'm happy to go with that.
<spiv> daf: I think so, judging from Steve's comment.
<daf> ok, I'll change the interface then
<daf> #2122 seems less clear-cut
<SteveA> do it mark's way, unless we need to do it over ssl, in which case, we'll need a new port anyway
<spiv> I like SSL from the viewpoint of keeping our security code to a minimum.
<SteveA> spiv: but, is the new api clear to you?
* BradB looks at Malone UI changes; "Sev", "Pri"...what gives? :)
<SteveA> wha giv?
<BradB> heh
<BradB> woohoo, more unbreaking to do
<spiv> SteveA: The only changes I'm aware of is sending passwords in plaintext rather than digests, and not returning salts.
<daf> spiv: IBranch doesn't seem to have an __ne__, so I can't see why it's complaining
<SteveA> ok.  it occurs to me that you could avoid sending the salts too by always sending the same salt to plone, and decrypting in the xmlrpc auth server.
<SteveA> that meets the goal of not sending any salts from the database, but without altering plone auth code.
<SteveA> daf: does IBranch extend anything?
<spiv> That doesn't work.
<SteveA> I suppose it doesn't
<daf> SteveA: oh, right, yes
<daf> class IBranch(ICategoryItem, IPackage, IVersionIterable):
<spiv> I can't transform SSHA(password, saltA) -> SSHA(password, saltB) without knowing the password.
<BradB> stub: I don't have time to see why this is happening myself, but your mail changes don't seem to work here; I expected to get from/to of bradb@bbnet.ca, but instead got noreply/test respectively (as per what I last hardcoded in the Python code, but I expected that your changes subvert whatever the real email address was.)
<SteveA> spiv: of course.  I'm being gosh-it-is-late-and-i-am-not-thinkin
<spiv> That's ok :)
* BradB decides to deploy a Malone from yesterday
<SteveA> spiv: so, can you add to you todo list to make appropriate changes to the auth server.  add the new api, and I suppose also make it run ssl.  do it the way mark wants, because i can't think of a good enough reason not to ;-)
<spiv> :)
<spiv> I'll file a bug against myself.
<carlos> hi
<daf> INamespaceObject -> IArchiveItem -> ICategoryItem -> IBranch
<daf> and INamespaceObject requires __ne__
<SteveA> looks like a bug in code.  who owns that code? ddaa?
<SteveA> daf: what time tomorrow?
<daf> I suggest 1400 or 1500 UTC
<SteveA> ok, 1400
<SteveA> carlos:is that okay with you?
<BradB> SteveA: presumably i'll use the same DB as rosetta on mawson eh?
<BradB> ew, hm, that might not work
<SteveA> I'd suggest using a separate database
<BradB> yeah, easier
<SteveA> you'll want to update at different times etc.
<BradB> yeah
<carlos> SteveA: yes
<SteveA> carlos: great
<daf> spiv: who owns that code?
<carlos> Don't know if it could be of your interest, but I'm packaging sqlobject for Debian, hope this weekend I will have the packages ready
<daf> carlos: did you see my packages?
<carlos> daf: hmm, not, do you have them?
<daf> I made them a while ago
<carlos> dammit
<daf> but they may be of interest to you
<daf> please go ahead with you packages
<daf> * your
<carlos> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=193499
<daf> carlos: I made the packages for company use
<carlos> daf: where do you have them?, perhaps I could reuse something. I have the basic packages done, I only need to split the documentation and add the suggestions for every backend supported
<dilys> New bug 2128 for Launchpad/Launchpad: Update authserver API to not expose salts
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2128
<daf> carlos: chinstrap:/home/daf/pacakges
<carlos> daf: hnmm, right, I just remembered it ...
<daf> actually, there are only binary packages there
<SteveA> spiv: can you also file a bug on you and mako for "get shipit talking to the xmlrpc auth server for Persons"
<spiv> Ok.
<SteveA> thanks
<carlos> daf: If you could send me the sources that could be really good, althought I think we have already the same done.
<daf> carlos: I'm uploading the sources to chinstrap now
<carlos> ok, thanks
<daf> carlos: the .diff.gz is ugly because it removes the existing debian/ directory from the SVN snapshot
<carlos> I will look at them this weekend
<carlos> daf: I was using the final tar.gz and it didn't had it, so it's not a problem, don't worry
<carlos> daf: Did you saw the log of today's meeting?
<daf> carlos: right -- just a warning that reading the .diff.gz might be a bit troublesome :)
<daf> carlos: not yet
<carlos> daf: ok :-)
<carlos> daf: ok, if you have time to talk about it, just tell me it, or should we wait for tomorrow's meeting with Steve?
<daf> let's talk about the message set split
<carlos> ok
<daf> it took me a while to get a diff yesterday
<daf> becuase my revision library got corrupted
<daf> and arch was misbahaving in other ways
<daf> and then when I did get a diff, it was quite hard to read
<carlos> lots of changes...
<daf> you changed the class names so that s/Message/Msg/?
<carlos> I fixed some of them, then you told me that those changes should be outside the changeset (my fault) and I stopped doing it
<carlos> but at that point was easy to fix the remaining renames than revert it
<carlos>  /s/easy/easier/
<daf> right, better to be consistent
<daf> and you're confident that all references to the old class names have been changed?
<carlos> I think so, I fixed the unittests, the functional tests and did some testing from the webinterface
<daf> sounds good
<daf> how do you store messages which appear in a PO file but not in the template?
<carlos> I add the msgid to the potmsgset but with sequence=0
<carlos> the potmsgset.sequence=0, the pomsgset.sequence = SOMETHING
<daf> hmm
<daf> is it so that the message IDs are only stored in the potmsgset?
<daf> i.e. you can't have a pomsgset without a potmsgset?
<carlos> yes that was the idea behind the split
<carlos> the have pomsgset.potmsgset that is a FOREIGN KEY to potmsgset.id
<carlos>  /s/the/we/
<daf> well, the main idea behind the split is that we didn't have one class representing two things
<carlos> yes, but in Oxford I remember that we talked about it also
<carlos> is it a problem?
<carlos> I thought we had consensus about it, that's why I wrote the SQL script that way 
<dilys> New bug 2129 for Launchpad/Launchpad: get shipit talking to the xmlrpc auth server for Persons
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2129
<daf> I'm trying to decide about it
<carlos> daf: don't think it's too difficult to modify it
<carlos> but I think it's better as it's now
<carlos> that way, the export code is faster, you can get all pomsgset that have a potmsgset with sequence > 0 and you get the current msgsets
<daf> I'm keeping an open mind about it
<daf> but I would make the reference from pomsgset to potmsgset optional
<daf> perhaps your approach is better :)
<carlos> hmm, if we do it optional, we need pomsgidsighting for the pomsgset
<daf> right
<daf> okay, I think you should merge the branch
<daf> if you are happy with it
<carlos> could you run the unittests and functional tests so I'm sure I'm not missing anything?
<daf> sure
<carlos> thanks
<daf> ddaa: around?
<daf> carlos: I'll also test a star-merge of the branch into a RF checkout
<carlos> ok, then let me do a star-merge from rocketfuel first so I see if there is any conflict
<daf> huh?
<daf> how come all the unit tests on the branch pass?
<daf> oh, I know
<daf> because the interface tests are not automatically generated
<carlos> I was merging from rocketfuel from time to time
<carlos> sure?
<carlos> I did not changed it
<BradB> elmo_: I need three things on mawson please: 1. a DB just for the malone alpha, 2. a port to listen on, 3. a URL at which to access the site (not sure what convention's in place for rosetta on URL names for the alphas.)
<daf> BradB: for (2), all you need is to agree on a port the Apache proxy will forward to
<BradB> sure, that's what i expected
<daf> ok
<daf> I wasn't sure
<daf> I suggest 9020
<BradB> i get to punt apache config off to elmo_ though right? :)
<daf> http://w.ul.o points to 9000 and http://r.sf.o points to 9010
<daf> yes, elmo will do the Apache config
<daf> :)
<BradB> yeah, so 9020 sounds fine to me
<daf> I tend to run debug servers on N+1 or N+2
<elmo_> you guys need to choose the URL, not me
<elmo_> you can create a db as the launchpad use which you have access to
<daf> so I can set up an SSH tunnel from localhost:9011 to mawson:9011 and use the debug server on mawson from my browser
* BradB chooses malone.ul.o
<elmo_> I don't think sabdfl will go for that kind of URL for a pre-alpha dogfood
<daf> why not?
<BradB> ok, so we don't get to choose the URL then :)
<elmo_> daf: same reason as rosetta was moved
<sabdfl> elmo_ it's fine, as long as we can put a client cert on it
<BradB> i'll take whatever, as long it starts with malone
<sabdfl> guys, i think we should make mawson the same as rosetaa currently
<sabdfl> just have everything accessible from /
<sabdfl> rosetta, soyuz, malone
<sabdfl> then we can move seamlessly from doap to  packages to bugs to translations
<daf> how is that different from what we currently have?
<sabdfl> all talking to the same db
<BradB> sabdfl: can't
<sabdfl> BradB: what am i missing?
<BradB> sabdfl: e.g. the db the rosetta alpha's running on may not work with the schema i'm going to run with the version of malone i want to deploy
<sabdfl> BradB: the rosetta alpha uses a different db altogether
<sabdfl> u'm just saying use the same url layout
<daf> sabdfl: use the same URL layout for what as what?
<BradB> sabdfl: what did you mean by "all talking to the same db" then?
<sabdfl> rosetta-dogfood, malone-dogfood, soyuz-dogfood
<sabdfl> currently if I go to mawson.ubuntu.com
<sabdfl> i see the development sevrer
<BradB> sabdfl: only one alpha app will be talking to one db (even though you may be able to access the other apps from within that alpha app, there's only meant to be one that's actually being alpha'd, since the others may be in a pre-alpha state at the time you took a snapshot of the app you're wanting to deploy as an alpha.)
<sabdfl> the one that resets every 30 minutes
<daf> it doesn't make sense for us to dogfood rosetta because we're not doing translation
<daf> we can dogfood Malone because we need a bug tracking system
<sabdfl> daf: next step from the alpha would be to bring the user base to a more intense environment that includes the doap, package, bug stuff
<daf> sabdfl: right, but that's not dogfood because it's not us using it
<sabdfl> fari 'nff
<sabdfl> it's kind of the "beta test next version" server
<daf> sabdfl: maybe I'm being dim, but I can't grasp what you're saying about Mawson :)
<sabdfl> look at the url table for https://mawson.ubuntu.com/
<sabdfl> it's the same as you get on your dev box
<sabdfl> but different to the rosetta alpha
<carlos> daf: in launchpad meeting we talked about start some translations of ubuntu as people are requesting those kind of contributions
<sabdfl> i think the dogfood box should look the same as our dev boxen
<sabdfl> just with a more serious db behind it
<sabdfl> i tihnk we should do daily code updates on the dogfood box
<daf> oh, right
<daf> I think I'm with you now
<sabdfl> each day stub would update the dogfood db and code simultaneously unless we *know* it's busted
<daf> so you're saying the Malone dogfooding should not be restricted to Malone?
<sabdfl> dafL: exactly
<daf> why didn't you just say so? :)
<sabdfl> daf: brain drain, i'm being a bit tired and dim :-)
<daf> we'll need to be careful with DB updates
<daf> we don't want to trash our bugs
<sabdfl> sure, but that care is needed anyhow
<sabdfl> backups
<daf> right
<sabdfl> later we can also access the same machine through:
<sabdfl>    malone-test.ubuntulinux.org
<sabdfl>   rosetta-test.ubuntulinux.org
<sabdfl> and see the same codebase and same db, just with the url map structured appropriately
<sabdfl> for a malone-only or rosetta-only view
<sabdfl> also, we might get a partner project to let that be rosetta-test.project.org so their translators could use the bleeding edge stuff
<daf> spiv: seems I'm getting functional tests failing because there's an existing authserver running
<daf> spiv: this is rather annoying
<sabdfl> and we get to exercise the domain-specific branding code
<spiv> daf: :(
<spiv> Hmm, actually, I think I have an idea how to make that more robust.
<BradB> This would make my job a helluva lot easier
<daf> BradB: whose job would it make harder? ;)
<BradB> heh heh
* carlos goes to have dinner
<daf> DatabaseException: ERROR:  relation "beer_id_seq" already exists
<daf> ?!
<BradB> daf: maybe me (as for who's job it would make harder.)
<carlos> Do we have beers in launchpad?
<carlos> :-D
<daf> yes, we do
<carlos> nice!
<daf> CREATE TABLE beer (
<daf>     id SERIAL PRIMARY KEY,
<daf>     name TEXT NOT NULL UNIQUE,
<daf>     rating INT
<daf> )
<BradB> we rank developers by how many beers they deserver
<BradB> s/deserver/deserve/
<spiv> Hah.
<BradB> wishful thinking anyway :)
<daf> I like that idea :)
<daf> UPDATE Person SET beers = (beers + 5) WHERE nick = 'daf';
<BradB> sabdfl|food: When and where do we deploy the dogfood LP and who's deploying it?
<BradB> daf: heh
* BradB ctrl-c's his build config, in any case
<daf> BradB: forget the "Donato to Ubuntu" portlet
<daf> * Donate
<daf> we need a "Send Canonical Developers a Beer" portlet
<BradB> that'd be more practical
<BradB> you can't get drunk off dollar bills, afterall
<BradB> SteveA: i like sabdfl|food's idea: dogfood LP
<BradB> it's a lot simpler
<SteveA> BradB: I think I missed something crucial to understanding that
<BradB> SteveA: instead of dogfooding Malone, let's just have one dogfooded launchpad app
<BradB> so instead of 4-5 dogfood apps, we'll just have one; instead of 4-5 dogfood db's, we'll just have one; etc.
<SteveA> for malone and soyuz combined?
<SteveA> rosetta isn't being dogfooded
<BradB> it kind of should be though
<SteveA> doing malone and soyuz combined makes sense to me
<SteveA> don't know where 4-5 DBs came from
<SteveA> I think your eggsagerating again ;-)
* SteveA mentions eggs
<BradB> rosetta, doap, foaf, soyuz, malone; i count 5
<spiv> SteveA: egghead ;)
<SteveA> I don't think there was ever any plan to dogfood doap and foaf separately
<BradB> so, 1 instead of 3; the principle's the same :)
<SteveA> anyhow, I think it is a good idea definitely for soyuz and malone (and doap and foaf).  It may be a good idea for rosetta.  Daf and carlos would need to decide that.
* SteveA goes to make evening food
<BradB> i get the impression they're in favour. daf, carlos?
<daf> I'm not sure what the change is, exactly
<BradB> all in favour of dogfood say "arf!"
<daf> it involves having more domains names?
<BradB> daf: well, i'm not quite sure about the current rosetta. can it be considered to be dogfooding if we say it is, or are other people actually using it?
<daf> "the current rosetta"?
<BradB> daf: the current alpha you guys have running, or "beta test new version" or whatever you were saying it was earlier
<daf> that's an Alpha
<BradB> so there are outside users?
<daf> yes
<BradB> ok, hm
<daf> it makes inherent sense for us to dogfood malone, because we need a BTS while doing Launchpad development
<daf> I'm not sure if Soyuz would be useful to use as Launchpad developers
<daf> and I'm pretty usre that Rosetta wouldn't be
<BradB> if our "dogs" include ubuntu developers, then i'd say dogfooding all three makes sense
<daf> ah, right, that would make more sense
<daf> but I'd still consider that an alpha (or whatever) rather than a dogfood, because the people using the system aren't the ones developing it
<BradB> then malone fits as much into that category as anything else ("alpha" not dogfooding :)
<BradB> because malone isn't designed to be a BTS for malone bugs, it's designed to be a BTS for products and packages
<BradB> we'd shoehorn it into being a BTS for malone, just to make some use of it, but we won't touch 95% of the most interesting functionality while using it only for malone BT'ing
<daf> true
<BradB> when it comes down to it, i think we need one dev LP instance, one testing LP instance, and one live LP instance; nothing more, nothing less
* carlos is back
<carlos> daf: did you finished the tests in my branch? Can I merge it?
<daf> the functional tests are failing for me now
<daf> I don't think it's because of your changes
<daf> but I'd like to be sure
<carlos> which ones?
<carlos> I have two fails
<carlos> but I think they are failing also with rocketfuel's version
<carlos> BrokenMethodImplementation: The implementation of newSourceSource violates its contract
<carlos>             because implementation requires too many arguments.
<carlos> and BrokenImplementation: An object has failed to implement interface <InterfaceClass canonical.launchpad.iandrew.IBranch>
<carlos>             The __ne__ attribute was not provided.
<daf> those are unit test failures
<carlos> hmmm, I did not saw the "functional" word O:-)
<daf> spiv: it says a twistd is already running, but the PID it mentions doesn't exist when I check
<carlos> remember that you need to recreate the database with the schema from my branch
<spiv> daf: Hmm
<daf> carlos: good idea O:-)
<carlos> daf: :-)
<spiv> daf: I have a potential fix for that in my archive.
<spiv> Mirroring now.
<daf> lovely, thanks
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Remove small race in authserver ftests (patch-669)
<ddaa> (20:43:00) daf: and INamespaceObject requires __ne__
<ddaa> (20:43:27) SteveA: looks like a bug in code.  who owns that code? ddaa?
<daf> hi ddaa 
<ddaa> It's probably some code dating back to when I first wrote canonical.arch.interfaces
<ddaa> I do not see why that is a buf.
<ddaa> * a bug
<daf> it's a bug because the interface has an __ne__ method
<daf> and the implementation does not
<ddaa> Yes, I had trouble defining those... was not sure what was the right way to define operator overloading in interfaces.
<ddaa> The pyarch implementation has one. That's the only one I wrote.
<daf> well, should IBranch have an __ne__ method?
<ddaa> But you can argue that is a misfeature.
<ddaa> NamespaceObject do equality comparison on their type and their fullname.
<daf> well, I don't know enough about it to argue
<daf> what I do know is that a test is failing because of this disparity
<ddaa> Eventually, the equality relation between objects of the same fullname might turn into an identity relation in pyarch.
<ddaa> Whether or not that is appropriate to reflect that in launchpad I cannot tell.
<daf> is there an appropriate short-term solution?
<daf> e.g. either implement __ne__ in Branch or remove __ne__ from IBranch
<ddaa> Fix the implementation so the test case passes or modify the interface. I do not really care.
<ddaa> I think you have to pick one.
<daf> I think fixing the implementation would be easier
<daf> because messing with IBranch's inheritance looks sticky
<ddaa> Some people have been charging me with inheritance abuse.
<daf> maybe, but as I say, I have neither competence for or interest in arguing that
<daf> :)
<ddaa> I threatened to sue back with unit-testual harassment, and we reached an agreement :-)
<ddaa> daf: at least, you can make the method raise UnimplementedError
<daf> true
<spiv> Hah.  That's a cop-out. :)
<ddaa> That will pass until make check run pychecker.
<daf> it is :-/
<ddaa> Which it will certainly do one day.
<daf> I could also disable the test, but I'd rather not do that :)
<daf> well
<daf> is anything actually using __ne__?
<ddaa> if you have the time, just write the code and a test case for it, and be done with it forever.
<daf> in any of the interfaces it's defined for?
<daf> spiv: any reason why iandrew.py is still around?
<spiv> No good reason.
<sabdfl> daf: how does rosetta.w.h.c reset its db? Seems that it's missing a few tables
<daf> ahem
<daf> it doesn't reset its db
<daf> that would appear to be the problem :)
<carlos> sabdfl: it resets its db when you poke daf to do it :-)
<daf> createlang: language installation failed: ERROR:  permission denied for language c
<sabdfl> daf: poke :-)
<daf> ow
<daf> hmm
<carlos> :-)
<sabdfl> this is why i want the dogfood server to be updated every day
<sabdfl> but you can't have too many "production" instances or it gets a pain
<daf> yeah, I was supposed to do this
<daf> mea culpa
<daf> looks like we have some problem with permissions at the moment, though
<sabdfl> we can't have rosetta-alpha and separate dogfoods for each lp component and the staging and the production
<daf> no, that would be silly
<sabdfl> our bdba would be running around all day
<daf> also, the diferent apps couldn't share data
<daf> which means you can't test any integration features
<daf> sabdfl: I've mailed launchpad about the DB reset problem
<daf> sabdfl: I'll get a cron job set up to reset it regularly
<daf> ddaa: did you see my question?
<ddaa> I did not, I am on the phone.
<lifeless> ddaa: isn't that uncomfortable ?
<BradB> sabdfl: What's the pronouncement on the dogfooding then? I think we should have one dev LP, one test LP, and one live LP.
#launchpad 2004-11-02
<BradB> Sounds like the rosetta instance that's currently being used fits into "test", so that leaves us needing to get the dev LP up and running, and then on the next test deployment, include soyuz and malone along with the next ver of rosetta
<daf> BradB: the Rosetta alpha server is not suitable for testing other things
<daf> BradB: it is on its own code branch, is not regularly updated, and has modifications in place so that Rosetta is the only application available
<BradB> the test apps shouldn't get regularly updated
<sabdfl> what;s the diff between the dev and the test lp?
<BradB> dev is the one that gets updated every day with the latest and greatest changes (or breakages)
<sabdfl> bradb: i don't think people work well in too many branches
<sabdfl> right
<BradB> test is the one that users test, and should actually expect to work relatively well, and change relatively infrequently.
<sabdfl> i'd like to be moving to production as frequently as is sane
<sabdfl> weekly, or fortnightly
<sabdfl> so there's not really much difference between dev and test
<sabdfl> and i don't think it's worth having it
<sabdfl> not at this stage
<sabdfl> when lp is huge with tens of thousands of users, yes
<sabdfl> but right now we want it to evolve FAST
<sabdfl> so prefer to keep it lighter weight
<BradB> ok, so first step, we want testing LP that is running all three apps, right? what happens to the rosetta alpha?
<SteveA> dev is the one that gets updated every N minutes, not every day
<carlos> I think we should update soon the rosetta alpha version with some bug fixes
<SteveA> the main point of the dev one is so that lu and others can see changes that developers make hour-by-hour
<carlos> daf: did you merged the patchsets to fix the language_country language selection?
<SteveA> rather than waiting a day to see some contentious change take effect
<sabdfl> SteveA: you can see the hour-by-hour status on your own dev box
<SteveA> yes
<sabdfl> rosetta.wh.h.c
<SteveA> but can lu?
<sabdfl> but we should hjust blow that db away every half hour too
<SteveA> oh, you mean the dev server on mawson
<SteveA> I thought you were proposing to do away with that
<sabdfl> the dev box is a daily build, with data we care about enough to backup regularly
<sabdfl> no
<sabdfl> i'm tired, so i may not be explaining this clearly
<sabdfl> heres what i would suggest we have:
<sabdfl> (a) crack of the hour (rosetta.wh.h.c equivalent) that nobody uses except to poke people at a brand new feature, blows away its own code abd db every half hour
<sabdfl> (b) dev / dogfood box, updated daily to latest db and code schema, with specific merges by the team leads to fix critical issues that come up
<sabdfl> (c) staging server ONLY FOR THE HOUR OR TWO BEFORE A PRODUCTION UPLOAD
<sabdfl> (d) production server
<sabdfl> stub will focus mostly on (b)
<sabdfl> then (c) and (d) during a push to production
<sabdfl> we should push to production weekly or fortnightly
<sabdfl> time based releases
<sabdfl> use tests to ensure the whole system is always deployable
<sabdfl> phew
<sabdfl> how's that sound
<daf> sabdfl: I suggest you write up your proposal to the mailing list
<daf> for the benefit of those not present
<SteveA> sounds good to me.  I imagine staging will be hit by automated tests, not people so much.
<SteveA> timeforbed
<sabdfl>      SteveA agreed
<sabdfl> staging is a place to bring in a dump of the production db, run the db update scripts, run the tests, and see if it all looked to work. then repeat on production server
<sabdfl> it's a defined process, not a place for arbitrary work
<sabdfl> BradB: any success on mawson?
<BradB> sabdfl: i stopped deploying, based on the current discussion (which started somewhat earlier)
<sabdfl> does this proposal sound sane to you?
<carlos> it makes sense
<sabdfl> we bring up malone. we get kinnison ad cprov to bring up soyuz.
<BradB> three seems like enough, but if you really want to maintain a forth, i won't object.
<sabdfl> and when daf is ready they migrate the rosetta alpha to the dogfood platform
<BradB> fourth even
<sabdfl> r.w.h.c is on autopilot
<sabdfl> all our work is focused on the dev
<sabdfl> staging is a pritine environment for stub to blow away, test, blow away again
<sabdfl> production is production
<sabdfl> this is less fragmented than having a rosetta "test" and a malone "test" and a soyus "test"
<BradB> isn't this more complicated than what i suggested of just dev, test, and live?
<BradB> (one dev LP where anything goes, one test LP that should be fairly sane, and one live LP where lives hang in the balance.)
<sabdfl> it's the same, just addin the pristine staging server we always planned on
<sabdfl> so dogfood = dev
<sabdfl> same proposal
<sabdfl> keep going :-)
* carlos is tired
<carlos> daf: please, send me an email with a "go" to the merge if you are able to test it today so I can do the merge tomorrow morning.
<carlos> good night
* BradB starts build-config again, on patch-659.
<BradB> I can have that up and running in however much CPU time it takes, less the appropriate Apache configuration.
<sabdfl> cool
<sabdfl> elmo will sort out apache config in a tick
<sabdfl> basically, no reason not for it to be identical to the current rosetta.wh.h.c
<sabdfl> client cert for vpn effect
<daf> we should probably get rid of the rosetta.w.h.c domain
<daf> as an alias for mawson
<sabdfl> daf: right, just run it on mawson, on a different port?
<sabdfl> it's purely to show off brand spanking new features
<daf> rosetta.w.h.c is the same machine as mawson.ul.o
<sabdfl> diff port
<sabdfl> diff db
<daf> you're thinking of rosetta.sf.o
<daf> (I suspect)
<sabdfl> no...
<sabdfl> that's the "alpha"
<daf> ok
<daf> https://mawson.ubuntulinux.org is exactly the same as https://rosetta.warthogs.hbd.com
<sabdfl> rosetta.wh.h.c is the "update every half hour to crack of the minute db and code"
<sabdfl> NOW it is
<daf> right
<daf> but?
<sabdfl> but bradb is bringing up the dev / dogfood server  on mawson too
<sabdfl> or not?
<BradB> i am
<sabdfl> right
<BradB> waiting on the build-config
<daf> sabdfl: are we going to use rosetta.w.h.c for something difference?
<sabdfl> so... r.w.h.c is just for kicks, its just a "public" snapshot of your and my dev box
<sabdfl> daf: please read what i wrote
<sabdfl> the dev server will only be updated once a day
<daf> I'm saying I think we should stop using that domain
<daf> to avoid confusion
<sabdfl> *relatively* stable
<sabdfl> daf: agreed
<daf> ok, then we were agreed all along :)
<sabdfl> let's call them the bleeder, the feeder, the staging and the breeder :-)
* sabdfl ducks and weaves
<sabdfl> the bleeder should take none of our time
<sabdfl> it just happens in the background
<sabdfl> the feeder is where we really test
<sabdfl> it's running a relatively full db
<sabdfl> and it's hosting guests working on rosetta beta code
<sabdfl> and it's hosting our own launchpad bug tracking instance of malone
<sabdfl> staging is just for stub and lifeless
<sabdfl> production is production
<sabdfl> ok, bleeder, feeder and breeder are terrible names :-)
<sabdfl> but bleeder, dailydev and production might be better
* BradB goes to get food while build-config continues chugging
<BradB> daf: How bad will it be if I blow away rosetta's DB on mawson?
<BradB> daf or elmo_: ping
<BradB> I need someone to stop rosetta so that I can create malone_alpha
<stub> BradB: Ignore what I said in email about the header rewriting - just changing the destination address in the envelope (what is happening now) is fine. That said, I'd already implemented the (optional) full header rewriting before I realised it so I'll check it in anyway.
<stub> Should I document this sort of thing on the Wiki or in a README.email ?
<stub> Mmm.... Malone is starting to look like a real system :-)
<BradB> wiki or README, heads or tails, hm
<BradB> I'd say a README
<stub> Mmm... I prefer that too... keep it in the same RCS.
<BradB> yep
<BradB> as for malone: once edit notification works (which i almost was able to wrap my brain around earlier), the 80%'ll be done.
<BradB> I guess that email thing is pretty cool. Where do bounces go though?
<BradB> e.g. if the envelop says From: test@bbnet.ca, and the From: header says steve@canonical.com, I hope it bounces to bbnet.ca :)
<stub> At the moment there is an Errors-To: header being set to 'nobody@example.com' along with a TODO.
<stub> BradB: I opened a bugzilla bug about configuration information via ZCML, as it should be configurable rather than hard coded.
<stub> Feel free to change the default if your mail server doesn't mind everyone spamming it :-)
<stub> We will need to do bounce processing in the future to detect expired email addresses, but I think it is ok to just check them in /dev/null for now (?)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Header rewriting and email documentation (patch-670)
<daf> BradB: "rosetta's DB"?
<BradB> on mawson
<BradB> stub: Probably, only reason I was asking about bouncing was perhaps slight over paranoia of real emails getting spammed when tests with expired recipient addresses get run.
<stub> Yup. I think it is very valid paranoia - the email system needs to get this stuff right.
<stub> Errors-To: should cope, or the header rewriting if we want to be doubly sure.
<daf> BradB: you mean the "launchpad_test" DB on mawson?
<daf> BradB: trash that as you like
<BradB> is that what you're running on? oh.
<BradB> presumably i can't trash it as i like though
<BradB> nope, that definitely wouldn't be a good idea ;)
<BradB> but i need rosetta stopped momentarily, so that i can create malone_alpha
<BradB> daf: can you stop rosetta on mawson momentarily while i do that?
<daf> oh, ok
<daf> when I say you can trash the launchpad_test DB, I mean it
<daf> it doesn't contain any critical information
<BradB> other than the schema :)
<daf> the schema cna be recreated also
<BradB> there's no guarantee that it'll be the same as what i'm using
<daf> there's a separate DB for the alpha, which actually should not be changed
<BradB> oh, ok, well anyway, i'm creating a separate db anyway
<daf> it sucks how Postgres won't let you create new databases while other databases are being used
<BradB> yeah, i don't understand why
<daf> ok, stopped
<daf> do I need to stop the Alpha also?
<BradB> nope, db recreated, you should be able to restart the thing you just stopped
<daf> huh?
<daf> weird
<daf> the Rosetta alpha was using the DB
<daf> the test LP was using the DB
<daf> but I only needed to stop one of them?
<BradB> *shrug*
<BradB> eh, how do i start an LP app on this machine?
<BradB> if I run it as the launchpad user, i get a perms error on a log file
<BradB> if i run it as bradb, i can't access the db
<daf> which log file?
<BradB>  /home/bradb/launchpad-malone-dogfood/launchpad.log
<daf> if you want to run it as launchpad, you'll probably need to make a copy of the checkout as launchpad
<BradB> how are you doing it with rosetta?
<daf> e.g. sudo -u launchpad "cp -a ~bradb/launchpad-malone-dogfood /home/launchpad; cd /home/launchpad/launchpad-malone-dogfood; make run"
<daf> actually, the existing instances are still running as me
<BradB> the launchpad user doesn't have a home dir :)
<daf> I should change it, but I always have more urgent stuff to do
<daf> oh, I think the launchpad user has permissions in /srv or someplace like that
<BradB> how did you auth to pgsql then?
<daf> um
<BradB> if you're running rosetta as daf
<daf> I think the DB has permissions for either me or LP to access it
<daf> both databases
<daf> because you created the new DB as bradb, the launchpad user can't access it
<BradB> i created it as launchpad
<daf> oh, hmm
* daf shrugs
<BradB> daf: can you access https://mawson.ubuntu.com:9020/malone?
<daf> no
<daf> it won't work
<daf> because it is firewalled
<BradB> ah, so it was more than just apache config :)
<daf> well
<daf> Apache acts as a proxy
<daf> Apache listens to ports which are allowed through the firewall, and proxies ports which aren't
<BradB> proxy on block ports? i don't follow...
<BradB> s/block/blocked/
<daf> Apache listens on port 443
<daf> and forwards requests it recieves based on the virtual host
<BradB> sure
<BradB> i'll get james or thom to set me one up tomorrow then
<daf> best to send the email now
* BradB sends, sleeps
<sabdfl> SteveA: around?
<Kinnison> I guess I should be here too
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Tidying lucille ready for renaming views etc (patch-671)
<Kinnison> thanks babe.
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Right; I'm doing the view rename/column rename we discussed on wednesday
<sabdfl> Kinnison: cool, thank you
<Kinnison> sabdfl: The views I have to rename are... BinaryPackageFilesToPublish SourcePackageFilesToPublish PublishedBinaryPackageOverrides and PublishedSourcePackageOverrides
<Kinnison> sabdfl: any suggestions on better names?
<sabdfl> Overrides needs rethinking, and better to do it with grep and %s/x/y/ sooner rather than later
<sabdfl> It was the field names that I thought needed to be the same as the field names they map to
<sabdfl> binarypackagename instead of bpname
<Kinnison> yeah; the column names I'm clear on
<sabdfl> let's use a given name as consistently as possible
<sabdfl> "ToPublish"?
<Kinnison> Those views list packages pending publishing
<Kinnison> I.E. sourcepackagepublishing and packagepublishing records which have status == PendingPublishing
<SteveA> sabdfl: yep
<sabdfl> hi SteveA
<sabdfl> SteveA: blush, forgotten what i was going to ask
<stub> Anyone mind if I rename the databases, so launchpad_dev will be what is used when you do 'make run' and all the tests use launchpad_ftest? I'm fixing tests atm, and some of them are broken because they talk to the launchpad_test database.
<Kinnison> sabdfl: How about PendingBinaryPackagePublishings and PendingSourcePackagePublishings ?
<stub> I know Daf is for it (from email about a week ago...)
<sabdfl> Kinnison: sounds perfect
<sabdfl> stub: yes please!
<Kinnison> sabdfl: and for the other two... PublishedSourcePackageLocations and PublishedBinaryPackageLocations ?
<sabdfl> the old overrides... is it really just locations?
<sabdfl> isn't it also quite a bit of "we want this, we don't want that"?
<Kinnison> It's not really locations at all
<Kinnison> it's component/section/priority
<sabdfl> ArchiveLocations
<sabdfl> ?
<Kinnison> The 'want this, don't want that' choice is the filelist which is the next bit on my list of things to do
<sabdfl> ok
<Kinnison> So PublishedBinaryPackageArchiveLocations ?
<sabdfl> loooong but true
<Kinnison> Then there'll be Published{Source,Binary}PackageFileList
<sabdfl> hold on
<sabdfl> is there any other view of "published packages"?
<sabdfl> if not, then the rest is spurious
<sabdfl> if this is our primary view of the packages that are published, then just call it "PublishedSourcePackage"
* Kinnison ponders
<sabdfl> and the fact that it includes the archive lcoations is nice
<Kinnison> the primary way to see what's published is to look at the sourcepackagepublishing and packagepublishing tables
<sabdfl> we do need to rename the Overrides table
<sabdfl> right
<Kinnison> these views are collating information for lucille to generate her output
<sabdfl> hmm.... so what tables do they pull data from?
<Kinnison> loads
<Kinnison> E.g. 'SourcePackageFilesToPublish' draws from... sourcepackagepublishing sourcepackagerelease sourcepackagereleasefile libraryfilealias distrorelease sourcepackage sourcepackagename and component
<sabdfl> PublishedSourcePackage then
<sabdfl> and PublishedBinaryPackage
<sabdfl> cool!
<sabdfl> simpler better faster gotta love it
<Kinnison> These views are listing *files* not packages
<Kinnison> (assuming the ...ToPublish views are what you're on about now)
<sabdfl> ... i can live with it
* Kinnison thinks we're talking at cross-purposes
<Kinnison> give me a sec to regroup
* Kinnison -> thinking room
<sabdfl> Kinnison: you're right, sorry
<sabdfl> PublishedSourcePackage would be for the alread-published files
<sabdfl> which tables does that draw from?
<sabdfl> same list?
* Kinnison returns
<Kinnison> PublishedSourcePackage draws from: SourcePackagePublishing, DistroRelease, SourcePackageRelease, SourcePackage, SourcePackageName, Component and Section
<Kinnison> Columns it provides are:
<Kinnison> id, distroreleasename, sourcepackagename, componentname, sectionname and distribution
<Kinnison> well; theoretically it provides sourcepackagename.name
<Kinnison> What should I call that column?
<Kinnison> sourcepackagenamename ?
* Kinnison pokes sabdfl 
<sabdfl> Kinnison: pong
<Kinnison> sabdfl: ^^^^^^^^^^
<sabdfl> just sourcepackagename
<Kinnison> even though that has connotations of being a foreign key onto the sourcepackagename table?
<sabdfl> a bit of a fiddle, that one
<sabdfl> sourcepackagenamereally ;-)
<sabdfl> so PublishedSourcePackage i'm happy with
<Kinnison> I don't mind any of: sourcepackagename sourcepackagenamename or "sourcepackagename.name"
<sabdfl> sourcepackagename
<Kinnison> although sqlobject might barf at the latter
<Kinnison> okay
<sabdfl> what about the name of the other views?
<sabdfl> Pending.?
<Kinnison> PendingSourcePackageFile
<Kinnison> PendingBinaryPackageFile
<Kinnison> ?
<sabdfl> Kinnison: works for me
<Kinnison> Cool
<Kinnison> I'll do that; and then I'll do PublishedSourcePackageFile and PublishedBinaryPackageFile for the new views I need to do too
<sabdfl> and rename Override?
<Kinnison> Override?
<Kinnison> launchpad_dsilvers=> \d override
<Kinnison> Did not find any relation named "override".
<Kinnison> We're renaming PublishedBinaryPackageOverrides to just PublishedBinaryPackage I thought we agreed that up there somewhere?
<sabdfl> Kinnison: yes, that's the view, right?
<Kinnison> yep
<Kinnison> there are no 'override' tables
<sabdfl> but there is an underlying Override table somewhere
<sabdfl> oh
<Kinnison> NupNup :-)
<Kinnison> The overrides *are* the publishing records :-)
<sabdfl> where do you store the info about how the distro wants to publish a given package?
<sabdfl> "when the NEXT package foo comes in, publish it in component/section/priority"
<sabdfl> that's what I understood an override to be
<Kinnison> when foo 1.0-2 comes in, you copy the publishing records from 1.0-1 pointing them at the new package
<Kinnison> Or at least; that's how I was going to do it
<Kinnison> Since that's the obvious way; then if you don't have enough context to do that; the package is clearly NEW and should be queued in the NEW queue instead
* Kinnison -> lunch
<sabdfl> Kinnison: i think we need an explicit policy table. when a new package comes in you look at the policy table to decide what to do with it
<sabdfl> we can start with a straight line-per-package approach like the debian overrides system
<sabdfl> but later it needs to be "accept packages that are in this bundle" (gnome / kde / etc)
<sabdfl> and "reject packages that are in that bundle (perl / dev / etc)
<sabdfl> so that derivatives get to shape their distro at a higher level than package-by-package.
<sabdfl> SteveA: kamion just reminded me what i wanted to ask
<sabdfl> wiki / zwiki decision is now urgent
<sabdfl> what's your view on the best course of action?
<SteveA> What decision exactly do we need to make?  Whether to use ZWiki, integrated with the UL plone site, or to use moinmoin not so integrated?
<SteveA> It seems that there are no tables used on wiki.ubuntu.com
<SteveA> I did wget -m http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ and grepped the results case-insensitively for "<table".  There were no tables as part of the content.
<SteveA> So, we can use ZWiki, and move content across from wiki.ubuntu.com
<BradB> elmo_: ping
<elmo_> BradB: 
<elmo_> SteveA: ??
<elmo_> stevea: check out hardware support ..
<BradB> elmo_: Two things:
<BradB> 1: Will you have a chance to do the Apache config for Malone soonish?
<BradB> 2. Do you care if I create another postgres superuser on mawson? (bradb)
<elmo_> 2: yes, run stuff as launchpad please
<BradB> There's a problem with that.
<elmo_> services should not be tied to one user's account
<elmo_> why?
<SteveA> elmo_: ah -- wget didn't get second level pages...
<BradB> The problem is that the zope instance needs to write logfiles. the launchpad user can't write logfiles in ~bradb.
<BradB> Unless I'm meant to have another dir under /srv
<elmo_> yeah, create something under /srv
<elmo_> hmm, there's meant to be a /srv/launchpad or something - if there isn't just let me know
<elmo_> have you guys agreed on the url stuff then?
<BradB> yep, i put it in an email to you guys (i.e. the admins) last night
<stub> SteveA: How recent is lib/canonical/functional.py ? I think it has superceeded lib/canonical/tests/functional.py but I'm not sure.
<elmo_> yeah, I know, just wanted to make sure it's final
<BradB> elmo_: afaic, yes :)
<elmo_> oh, sorry I should have read that mail
<elmo_> malone.w.h.c doesn't work - there's like 24 hour+ turn around time on that DNS
<elmo_> if you pick *.ul.o or *.u.c or *.c.c etc., I can do it.. otherwise..
<BradB> yeah, like i say, i'm not picky. m.u.c would be fine.
<sabdfl> SteveA: ok, and the moin support is working, and installed in our copy of zwiki on www.ul.o?
<sabdfl> elmo_, SteveA: the zwiki supports native html for tables
<BradB> elmo_: can you create a dir /srv/malone? /srv/rosetta.* doesn't seem like an appropriate place for it.
<sabdfl> if necessary we can munge them over as html tables directly
<sabdfl> BradB: morning!
<BradB> hi :)
<elmo_> sabdfl: that's super user unfriendly for editing
<elmo_> sabdfl: okay for malone.u.c
<elmo_> +?
<sabdfl> bradb: re /malone is this for the dev server? it will host ALL the lp componets though
<SteveA> stub: lib/canonical/functional.py is the newest and best
<sabdfl> elmo_: it's much better for searhcing
<sabdfl> i think we are going to put together a dedicated Plone class for the hardware db
<BradB> sabdfl: so launchpad.ubuntu.com?
<sabdfl> BradB: perfect!
<BradB> elmo_: Can you make that dir /srv/launchpad instead please? :)
<elmo_> tramps.   this is why I asked if you guys were done "discussing" :P
<BradB> i had got the impression that i was just putting up a malone df, but i guess not :)
<SteveA> sabdfl: the latest released ZWiki is 0.35.0.  This is not installed in our plone sites.  It has support for moinmoin pages without tables.  The preview mode was added one week later, and has been improved since.
<SteveA> There will be a new wiki release on 1 November containing the preview mode, and any further work done on moinmoin markup.
<SteveA> If we want to get the preview mode before then, we'll need to check zwiki out of its DARCS repository.
<sabdfl> SteveA: how extensive are the tables in hte hardware section
<elmo_> what client cert do we want protecting this?  the testers one?
<elmo_> or a 'warthogs' one?
<sabdfl> elmo_ accept either, allow testers into /rosetta but for everything else require warthogs
<SteveA> sabdfl: there are 11 hardware pages.  most have a table on them.
<BradB> good thing I checked if there was already a database called "launchpad_alpha" :)
* BradB uses one called launchpad_dogfood instead
<SteveA> I could convert the tables to restructured text format in under 30 minutes in vim
<sabdfl> SteveA: is the ReST table format efficient? moin is terrible
<SteveA> it is an improvement over moin, but still a bit awkward.  Here's an example:
<SteveA> http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickref.html#tables
<SteveA> I'm looking at the "simple table" format
<BradB> elmo_: Can you stop rosetta too please so that it doesn't hang when I try to create the DB?
<elmo_> "stop rosetta" ?
<elmo_> you mean UP it?
<BradB> kill it
<BradB> daf's running it on mawson
<SteveA> why would rosetta hang?
<SteveA> it uses a different db, doesn't it?
<BradB> rosetta doesn't hang
<elmo_> postgres' fucked - I'm going to try UP-ing rosetta to see if it helps
<SteveA> why would your stuff hang on account of rosetta running?
<BradB> me trying to create launchpad_dogfood hangs, because "another process is accessing the database"
<elmo_> err, UP-ing mawson
<elmo_> this is why we changed the machine name isn't it :)
<SteveA> so postgres doesn't like you doing stuff to the databases when a process is using a different database?
<SteveA> that sucks
<BradB> indeed
<SteveA> makes me want to run several different postgreses
<BradB> it seems to me that there must just be a problem with the pgsql config on mawson
<elmo_> no, you tramps, it's a bug
<BradB> maybe it's fixed in 8.0b3?
<SteveA> sabdfl: I think HTML tables are the way to go, unless people generally use a decent editor to edit them.
<elmo_> we're not using beta's in production
<elmo_> and changing major versions between production and devel is a reciepe for madness
<BradB> yeah, wasn't suggesting that, but optimistically looking towards the 8.x series :)
<sabdfl> elmo_ are we runing 7.4.5?
<elmo_> yeah, 7.4.5-3
<elmo_> let me UP the box first
<elmo_> mawson going down..
* BradB logged out
<sabdfl> stevea:
<sabdfl> (13:18:07) Kamion: kind of impressed that the wiki handles Korean totally seamlessly
<sabdfl> (13:21:17) lamont: thom: you're welcome
<sabdfl> (13:22:09) sabdfl: Kamion: i'm keen to move to the Zwiki which is a little more restrictive but *should* do the same
<sabdfl> will zwiki handle i18n?
<sabdfl> SteveA: the ReST table format seems very sane
<sabdfl> if we can get kupu working nicely for the wiki then html might be fine
<sabdfl> but let's not rush into that
<sabdfl> SteveA: think we can big-bang the content across in a morning?
<sabdfl> i was thinking to move it over a page at a time, and lock the moin-wiki page once it had moved
<SteveA> There's a discussion on #zwiki about hebrew.  I just asked about the details.
<SteveA> the problem with the ReST table format is that if you add a row with a column that is longer than all those that currently exist,
<SteveA> in the simple format, you need to go through and make every row have a longer column
<SteveA> In the full table format, you can use wrapped text
<SteveA> so, although it is trickier to set up, it is easier to maintain
<elmo_> right, mawson's back up
<elmo_> please try again, and if it still hangs, yell
<SteveA> limi is very negative about kupu -- he says it works only in a very few browsers.
<SteveA> its ancestor, epoz, works in most browsers.
<SteveA> but, I think epoz is not integrated into zwiki, whereas kupu is
<BradB> sabdfl: Do we want to restart whatever Rosetta daf had running on mawson, or is this new LP dogfood thing enough?
<SteveA> the rosetta alpha testers will be a bit upset, I guess
<SteveA> daf should be around any minute
<SteveA> I have a meeting with him and carlos in 30 minutes
<SteveA> marius says:
<SteveA> <SteveA> wiki question mgedmin:  how easy is it to put non-ascii characters into a ReST zwiki page?
<SteveA> <mgedmin> easy
<SteveA> <mgedmin> well, depends
<SteveA> <mgedmin> if it is Zope 2.7, you have to edit zope.conf
<SteveA> <mgedmin> and specify rest-input-encoding utf-8
<SteveA> <mgedmin> and also rest-output-encoding utf-8
<BradB> elmo_: Bad Gateway when trying to access launchpad.ubuntu.com; is it being forwarded correctly to 9020?
<SteveA> here is a ReST page on zwiki.org: http://zwiki.org/SandBox   There are some odd characters in it.  Someone who uses non-ascii characters can try adding a comment.
<elmo_> no, I hadn't finished
<elmo_> try again now
<sabdfl> SteveA: agree on kupu. let's use ReST, Moin, HTML for now
<BradB> elmo_: looks good, thanks, just doing some quick sanity checks now.
<stub> I gave up on kupu - epoz got overengineered and became urgh...
<stub> erm.... kupu got overengineered. epoz is cool.
<sabdfl> bradb: the old server should still continue... it's the half-hourly snapshot on a db that gets blown away thing
<sabdfl> it should totally run on autopilot
<sabdfl> on separate ports
<sabdfl> with client cert restricted to warthogs only
<sabdfl> SteveA: korean appears to be working fine there
<sabdfl> SteveA: ok, when can we big-bang the wiki across?
<sabdfl> and could you keep an eye on zwiki, and make sure we run the latest release?
<SteveA> Brad needs to tweak zope.conf, and install the latest ZWiki (perhaps latest from DARCS, so we get the improvements to preview mode)
<sabdfl> yes we definitely need preview mode
<SteveA> Then we should check that we can enter all manner of characters into a test page on ul.org
<SteveA> We probably want to set up zwiki so that people cannot use DTML pages or other pages with server-side scripting in them.
<SteveA> I'm not sure how to do that when zwiki is mixed in with plone
<SteveA> it would be nice if we can convert all the moin wiki markup to ReST.
<sabdfl> SteveA: i'd rather leave moin available as an option
<SteveA> that way, there will be just one wiki markup in use.
<sabdfl> the guys are screaming along making lots of changes to the wiki
<sabdfl> and i don't want to impose a change unless we have to 
<sabdfl> happy to say "sorry, tables aren't supported yet in the new wiki"
<sabdfl> but keep the disruption to a minimum
<SteveA> so, pages with tables will use ReST?
<sabdfl> or html
<SteveA> k
<sabdfl> whatever the authoer prefers
<SteveA> the rest remain in moin
<sabdfl> can we lock a page in moin?
<SteveA> I don't know
<SteveA> there's always "soft locking": "THIS PAGE HAS BEEN MOVED TO http://ubuntulinux.org/wiki/whatever"
* SteveA uses darcs to get the latest zwiki
<SteveA> it doesn't look as scary as tla
<SteveA> it doesn't say very much.  just "copying patches..." then lots of ........
<BradB> any objections to me blowing away launchpad_test on mawson?
<BradB> (well, wreaking havoc on it, anyway)
<daf> it's trashable
<SteveA> BradB: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~stevea/zwiki-2004-10-22.tar.gz
<SteveA> that's ZWiki from today
<SteveA> I haven't run it.  I just thought I'd save you the trouble of installing darcs on a mac :-)
<BradB> deploying lp is as painful as a very painful thing
<sabdfl> BradB: can we redecorate pages in our plone site that are below /wiki/ ?
<sabdfl> get rid of the right-hand bars?
<sabdfl> BradB: what's painful? Is it retrieving it from arch?
<BradB> i keep getting:
<BradB> __
<BradB>     for row in self.table.select():
<BradB>   File "/srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/launchpad-dogfood/lib/sqlobject/main.py", line 1198, in __iter__
<BradB>     return conn.iterSelect(self)
<BradB>   File "/srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/launchpad-dogfood/lib/sqlobject/dbconnection.py", line 507, in iterSelect
<BradB>     select, keepConnection=True))
<BradB> TypeError: iteration over non-sequence
<BradB> when trying to access basically any screen that hits the db
<BradB> (i've even tried running directly from launchpad_test, just in case trying to run off launchpad_dogfood was config'd incorrectly)
<sabdfl> BradB: i've been seeing that on rosetta.wh.hbd.com for a while
<sabdfl> I wonder if postgres on that box isn't *&^*&^'d
<BradB> http://paste.husk.org/1840 is the config I built from
<BradB> maybe i'm not using the right version of something
<BradB> it seems to me that the problem is that the app is failing to connect to the db, but that's a bit of a guess, because the error message is computer science
<sabdfl> BradB: can you do a psql launchpad_test and see that it looks ok?
<BradB> it does
<sabdfl> BradB: wrong sqlobject version
<BradB> i thought that might be the case
<sabdfl> you want: ./launchpad-malone-dogfood/sourcecode/sqlobject        rocketfuel@canonical.com/sqlobject--test--0.6
<BradB> i thought rocketfuel@canonical.com/sqlobject--test--0.5.1 was the misnamed 0.6 we had though
<sabdfl> also, i don't think we should call it launchpad-malone-dogfood
<BradB> it isn't
<sabdfl> just call it launchpad-dev
<BradB> that was just on a local build-config
<sabdfl> or launchpad-dogfood
<sabdfl> BradB: my config has 0.6
<BradB> it is launchpad-dogfood already :)
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> try the updated sqlobject
<sabdfl> that would also explain why rosetta.w.h.c was being b0rked
<BradB> daf used the same version?
<daf> no, I think the development server I was running has 0.6
<sabdfl> daf: t was getting exactly the same error for me
<sabdfl> iterating over a non-sequence crap
<BradB> the upgrade fixed it
<sabdfl> great
<BradB> thanks for pointing out the prob
<sabdfl> daf, please fix the other one
<SteveA> fyi, rosetta progress meeting starting on #canonical-meeting
<daf> ~/launchpad-devel/launchpad/sourcecode/sqlobject$ tla tree-version
<daf> rocketfuel@canonical.com/sqlobject--test--0.6
<BradB> email notification works too, but it's still always coming to me, which may be a good thing until the next version is deployed with stub's email changes
<BradB> hm, i guess a clean way of starting this as a daemon would be nice :)
<SteveA> zdeamon?
<BradB> bin/launchpadctl start
<BradB> We'll also need to be able to change the DB name in exactly one place, if we're to have any hope of running this thing on four different databases (which I'm assuming will all be named differently.)
<SteveA> should be a config option in launchpad.conf
<SteveA> we'll need to do a similar thing for the zodb to use
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Rename databases. Implement new test harnesses. Port tests to new harnesses where appropriate. Fix all unit and functional tests. 'make test' runs without errors. (patch-672)
<stub> BradB: At the moment it should be possible to stick .zcml files in the override-includes directory that, well, overrides the default settings. This might be a way to keep the dogfood config in an easy-to-upgrade fashion
<stub> SteveA: You want we should have test_on_merge.py do a full test run now?
<SteveA> I think we should use a launchpad.conf.in file, with the default settings, and put all settings that could be changed on a deployment into launchpad.conf.
<SteveA> there's a bit of work required to put settings we need into launchpad.conf, though
<SteveA> stub: do all tests pass right now?  If so, great, let's do it.
* stub gestures up the screen to patc-672
<SteveA> cool.  let's go for it
<SteveA> BradB: how does plone handle internationalizing content?
<SteveA> sabdfl: have any plans been discussed about internationalizing the ul.org website?
<BradB> SteveA: yeah, but i don't have an experience i18n'ing content
<BradB> s/an/any/
<BradB> SteveA, sabdfl: Should I read my scrollback right now about zwiki et al. or focus on getting edit notification working in malone (and deploying stub's new email machinery?)
<BradB> SteveA: LinguaPlone is the standard product there, last I checked.
<BradB> limi develop{ed,s} it
<SteveA> BradB: I'll send a mail about zwiki
<BradB> ok
<SteveA> I'd like you to upgrade zwiki and zope.conf on ubuntulinux.org before monday UK time
<SteveA> so we can get to work moving pages across on monday
<BradB> ok
<SteveA> thanks
<BradB> brb
<BradB> BradB & # brekkie run
* Kinnison -> tea and cakes
<SteveA> malone question: how are the scripts to pull open bugs out of bugzilla and into malone looking?
<SteveA> we'll need to use those to do dogfooding of malone
<stub> hmm.. where did all those tests with hardcoded launchpad_test come from? They wern't there a minute ago, I swear!
<sabdfl> SteveA: i'd love to i18n the web site but will only go with what plone standard provides
<sabdfl> SteveA, stub: i don't know about auto-pulling open bugs from bugzilla
<SteveA> let's ask limi's advice on what approach to look at next week
<sabdfl> we currently have code that will update the status of a remote bugzilla bug when it changes
<sabdfl> but not to automatically find new bugs over there and create them in maone
<sabdfl> i suggest we just transition to malone by turning off new bug creation in bugzilla
<SteveA> I'm thinking more of pulling open launchpad bugs out of the launchpad bugzilla
<sabdfl> people can wrap up old bugs in bugzilla and create new ones in maone
<SteveA> and putting them into malone
<sabdfl> for critical bugs we can create them in malone and put remove watches on them in the bugzilla
<sabdfl> (14:22:02) limi: * patching for this revision (alexander.limi@canonical.com--2004/launchpad--devel2--0--patch-20)
<sabdfl> (14:22:05) limi: unable to open file "./.arch-inventory" (Permission denied)
<sabdfl> (14:22:07) limi: PANIC: I/O error
<sabdfl> (14:22:18) limi: :] 
<sabdfl> anybody seen this before?
<SteveA> I've seen panics from tla, but not one about .arch-inventory
<BradB> ls -l ./.arch-inventory
<sabdfl> (16:33:03) limi: $ ls -al ./.arch-inventory 
<sabdfl> (16:33:04) limi: -rw-r--r--  1 limi  limi  98 19 Oct 11:44 ./.arch-inventory
<dilys> New bug 2131 for Launchpad/Launchpad: Launchpad should have a graceful way to startup in daemon mode
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2131
<dilys> New bug 2132 for Launchpad/Rosetta: internationalize Rosetta
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2132
<dilys> New bug 2133 for Launchpad/Launchpad: Launchpad database must be configurable in exactly one place
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2133
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: View renaming for lucille's publishing stuff (patch-673)
<BradB> sabdfl: hmph, I wonder what ./.arch-invetory it's referring to then.
<BradB> s/invetory/inventory/
<sabdfl> dilys: you rock
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Merged my BIG change to split pomsgsets and potmsgsets into their own tables (Closese: #2083) (patch-674)
<dilys> New bug 2134 for Launchpad/Rosetta: Create and migrate the user languages preferences to a table PersonLanguage
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2134
<debonzi> BradB, ping
<dilys> Bug 2037 resolved: main search form should search products as well as projects
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2037
<BradB> debonzi: pong
<debonzi> hi BradB I saw there is a bug in SourcePackage that is MultipleJoin... Is there a easy way to get from the attribute bugs only the ones with BugSeverity.CRITICAL for example?
<debonzi> s/bug/bugs
<BradB> nope, not that i'm aware of
<debonzi> uhmmm... so I think I need a new query and a SourcePackageBugAssignment.select
<BradB> that or a list comp
<debonzi> BradB, what you mean with list comp? some python code to get them?
<BradB> [c for c in sp.bugs if c.severity == CRITICAL] 
<BradB> s/c/b/, but yeah
<debonzi> right.. it is nice because whould avoid and circular import since SourcePackageBugAssignment already imports SourcePackage, but don't you think it is too expensive?
<debonzi> s/and/an
<BradB> depends on what you're using it for
<BradB> are you just doing a search page for all critical bugs for one SP? if so, then the solution is almost written in the question. :)
<debonzi> right but I don't know precise how big can be a SourcePackageBugAssignment for a given SourcePackage of course.. do you have and ideia
<debonzi> yes.. thats what I whould like to do
<BradB> Then just do a simple select on SourcePackageBugAssignment. :)
<BradB> that way you needn't add any special methods to anything
<dilys> Bug 2083 resolved: Do the split of .pot and .po records from POMsgSet to two different tables
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2083
<debonzi> uhm? why do you say I don't need? let me explain I little better what I want: I whould like to show some bug informations in the sourcepackage page. so, on the template I have context/sourcepackage/bugs and I can use it to should for example the total number of bugs for that sourcepackage. But I also want to show the number of critical bugs
<debonzi> so, I beliave I need something like context/sourcepackage/bugscritical
<debonzi> for that I think I do need to write a new method inside SourcePackge SQLObject.
<debonzi> I am wrong somewhere?
<sabdfl> debonzi: there's a good idea in there somewhere
<sabdfl> i would rather do it like this
<sabdfl> we can write a function SourcePackage.bugs(severity_min=None, status=dbschema.BugStatus.OPEN)
<sabdfl> and expose that partly through SourcePackageView
<sabdfl> the important thing to me is that it be a general, well written function
<sabdfl> that will report on bugs associated with the source package
<sabdfl> and cann be constrained in interesting ways, like by status and severity and priority level
<BradB> debonzi: I had the impression (as per above) that you were just doing a search page and trying to show critical bugs for an SP, in which case self.critical_bugs = SourcePackageBugAssignment.select(SourcePackageBugAssignment.q.sourcepackageID == 1, ...) would have been the simplest way to do it. Sounds like you're doing something slightly more complex though.
* debonzi thinks about
<debonzi> BradB, sabdfl Im thinking about it. If I have more questions Ill ask again.. thanks :)
<sabdfl> bradb: is it possible to turn off the right hand portlets for  pages under /wiki/ on our plone site?
<BradB> I'll take a quick look now to see if what I think might work actually does.
<BradB> sabdfl: yep, it worked
<BradB> i'm betting the old one's still cached at the real URL though
<BradB> oh no, seems to work properly event at the real URL for me
<BradB> sabdfl: does that look ok then?
<BradB> SteveA: (#zope3-dev) is ignoring the class directive for an editform a bug then?
<sabdfl> BradB: shiny!
<sabdfl> excellent thanks
<sabdfl> i'm going to get some of our wiki extraordinaires to play with the zwiki there
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Make merge check use full test suite (patch-675)
<BradB> sure
<sabdfl> yowser. chug chug. test suite just grew
<sabdfl> ah, dilys
<sabdfl> thanks
!lilo:*! Of possible interest, a recently created channel: #accounting, a support channel for small not-for-profit entities.... stop by if you have skills and want to answer questions, or if you have questions and need answers :)
<debonzi> sabdfl, I was thinking in the way you sugested for the implementation I need and looking at the already exists but I still can't see a good way to solve my "problem". When you say SourcePackage.bugs(...) what do you mean with it? A classmethod inside SourcePackage?
<debonzi> SourcePackage already have and attribute called bugs that since I have a SourcePackage.SelectResult all the rows in it have a list (bug attribute) with all its bugs.
<debonzi> s/(bug attribute)/(bugs attribute)
<sabdfl> given an instance of SourcePackage you want to get a list of relevant bugs assigned to that source pacakge.
<sabdfl> you could have different functions SourcePackage.criticalBugs and Sourcepackage.closedBugs and Sourcepackage.openBugs etc
<sabdfl> or just have a single function to which you can pass some good methods
<sabdfl> like SourcePackage.getBugs(minSeverity=HIGH, status=OPEN)
<debonzi> Right... that is ok.. 
<debonzi> but I whould like to use the bugs attribute that I already have to get this things.. but seems that there is no way
<sabdfl> try to write a new method.
<sabdfl> ultimately it will use Bug.select(querystring)
<sabdfl> use the arguments to the method to build a useful querystring
* sabdfl hs to leave shortly
<debonzi> I whould like to avoid one sql query for each "kind" of bug since I already have a list with all of them
<sabdfl> well, you could also have one function which gets all the bugs once
<sabdfl> then other functions which run over that and get subsets
<sabdfl> based on your criteria
<sabdfl> anyhow, got to go, have a good weekend!
<debonzi> sabdfl, ok thanks :)
<BradB> stub: have you thought about pushing your CC change upstream?
<BradB> i've got a foo. foo is an sqlobject, which has one attrib, x. foo.x == 1. how do i capture foo's state into an object such that when i go foo.x = 2, i can look at old_foo.x and see that it was 1?
<BradB> oh, i thought of something
* BradB tries
<BradB> woo!
#launchpad 2004-11-03
<kiko> BradB, is __dict__ available on an SQLO?
<BradB> nope, because if the interface
<BradB> i wrote SQLObjectEditView though
<BradB> so, it does this:
<BradB>                 class Snapshot(object):
<BradB>                     pass
<BradB>                 content_before_modification = Snapshot()
<BradB>                 for name in self.schema.names():
<BradB>                     setattr(
<BradB>                         content_before_modification,
<BradB>                         name, getattr(content, name))
<BradB> later, i have:
<BradB>                     notify(SQLObjectModifiedEvent(
<BradB>                         content, content_before_modification, self.fieldNames))
<BradB> it can probably use some improvement, but then, so can everything else. it works for now.
<BradB> the tricky part (where i stopped earlier, and will resume tomorrow) is to output foo.bar in a useful way...knowing that it might be a "displayable" value, or an id for a vocab, or even an sqlobject.
<kiko> Indeed, because the Snapshot isn't an SQLO.
<BradB> kiko: that doesn't affect anything though
<BradB> it's got the values
<BradB> (and, of course, the snapshot can't be an sqlobject)
<kiko> BradB, well, it affects the fact that following references doesn't unpersist them magically :)
<BradB> nope. a snapshot of foo.person is still that ref to Person
<kiko> oh.
<kiko> you're actually handling that as well?
<BradB> there's nothing special to do
<BradB> foo.person is a Person, so when i assign that to something else (e.g. to the snapshot object), i've still got a person
<kiko> I see. SQLO takes care of that for you when you so getattr(content, name).
<BradB> yup
<kiko> yes, I'm thinking at a lower level.
<kiko> so how's canada BradB?
<BradB> i'm kickin it in the plateau in montreal; it's great
<kiko> winter's closing in huh?
<kiko> we just bought a dual xeon server for the office, it toasts
<BradB> whouch
<BradB> yeah, winter's coming on. i'm ready for it.
<kiko> the case weighs approximately a ton
<BradB> heh
<kiko> you bought a blanket? 
<BradB> built a better igloo
<BradB> :P
<kiko> you would be amazed at how hot this office is today man.
<kiko> then again, http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/507802/
<BradB> hmmmm
<BradB> so maybe sweat shops are the One True Way
<kiko> you mean literal sweat shops. that's us. :)
<BradB> heh
<BradB> i went shopping for a thinkpad the other day...turns out the place i went (future shop) doesn't even sell em, ugh.
<kiko> oh, so you didn't get one?
<kiko> did jblack find anything surprising about HFS+?
<BradB> nope, not yet, i'll find a place on the weekend
<BradB> nope, hfs+ sucks
<BradB> ufs would be better. i'd like to hold onto os x, but i'm almost ready to give it up.
<BradB> i either buy a new powerbook, or a buy a new not-powerbook
<BradB> on a new pb g4, i'd put panther and UFS
<kiko> and UFS is nice?
<BradB> it's supposed to be much, much faster than HFS+
<BradB> i could live with it being a bit slower than ext3, but only so much...
<kiko> have you considered running LNX on that thing?
<BradB> the only thing i'd do to this machine is put more ram in it. i'm waiting till i get new hardware to be installing any new os, whether it's os x or linux.
* sabdfl has been reading the zope3 docs for the first time
<sabdfl> cool
<sabdfl> events. very cool.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: changes on Nicole still not working on mawson (patch-676)
<SteveA> BradB: full moinmoin is now in zwiki 
<SteveA> I'll produce another snapshot in a bit.
<BradB> SteveA: i think sabdfl was going to get the zwiki guys to take care of installing it, but i could be wrong
<sabdfl> hi guys
<BradB> hi :)
<sabdfl> BradB: didn't want to distract you from malone so i thought roche could do it
<sabdfl> but if it's really quick, then let's do it amongst ourselves
<sabdfl> two things: need to restrict the wiki folder to just wiki pages
<sabdfl> and need to prevent the wiki pages from showing up in the navbar on the left
<sabdfl> inside the wiki, we'll just use wiki navigation
<sabdfl> BradB: how does the locking mechanism work? nominated people only can edit those pages?
<BradB> okay, so basically all this involves is installing zwiki, and blowing away and readding /wiki?
<sabdfl> no, can leave the existing /wiki
<BradB> ok
<sabdfl> we'll just move the stuff they have created there to better locations
<sabdfl> limit /wiki/ to wiki pages only
<BradB> sabdfl: with locking, only managers can unlock/edit the pages
<sabdfl> ok, and who sets the list of managers?
<BradB> dunno
<BradB> maybe roche was doing that before
<BradB> maybe there's a group set up so that it's easy to do through the plone ui, but i haven't looked
* BradB goes looking
<SteveA> https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~stevea/zwiki-2004-10-23.tar.gz
<SteveA> simon took out the previous moinmoin support, and ported the parsing directly from moinmoin itself
<sabdfl> i suspect lulu knows
<SteveA> isn't it wonderful when lots of open source projects are written in python
<sabdfl> let's help the world get more wonder :-)
<SteveA> lulu was setting up managers using the plone UI for that
<BradB> sabdfl: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/prefs_group_members?groupname=managers
<ddaa> How can I have a look at the production launchpad?
<ddaa> I want to know which sourcesources are still in the "do-not-sync" product.
<ddaa> https://macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com/ gives me a 403
<sabdfl> BradB: cool, thanks. when people edit a page on the web site that is not locked, do we get notified?
<sabdfl> or can we see a list of pages that have been edited like that?
<BradB> there's no notification happening, and there's no plone way of seeing a list of recently edited pages that i'm aware of (the collective is always having new products added though; it's possible there's something there that does something like that, but i'd have to dig around a bit)
* BradB wants to use repozo to backup Data.fs...isn't sure if it's trustable though
<sabdfl> SteveA: semantics?
<BradB> SteveA: is repozo.py -B -f Data.fs going to backup the Data.fs nicely?
<sabdfl> foo = IAnInterface(bar, None)
<sabdfl> will that give an object adapted to IAnInterface, or none if it could not find the relevant adapter?
<SteveA> adapt bar to IAnInterface.  If the adaption is not possible (bar does not provide IAnInterface, and is not adaptable to it), then return None.
<SteveA> assign result to foo, of course
<SteveA> yes, basically what you said
<SteveA> BradB: um... I always have to check on the zodb wiki pages.  let me find them for you...
<sabdfl> "is not adaptable"
<sabdfl> is that calculated on the basis of interfaces that bar implements()?
<BradB> SteveA: i can see the docs in the file itself, i'm just not sure if i can trust that it'll work. :)
<SteveA> http://www.plope.com/Members/chrism/repozo
<SteveA> I've backed up and restored following the instructions there, on the ubuntulinux and canonical sites
<SteveA> when gentoo went down when we were in london
<SteveA> bbiab
<BradB> ok, thanks, i'll read and go for it then
<SteveA> oh, there are some filestorage/zodb fsref errors early in the storage. removed with a pack.  not serious.
<SteveA> not caused by the power outage.
<BradB> nice crontab entries:
<BradB> # Zope has memory leaks ...
<BradB> 3 */2 * * * /home/zope/instances/ubuntu/bin/zopectl restart > /dev/null 2>&1
<BradB> 10 4 * * * /home/zope/instances/canonical/bin/zopectl restart > /dev/null 2>&1
* BradB shudders
<sabdfl> BradB: i think elmo found that the zope instance was growing uncontrollably
<BradB> yeah
<BradB> the new wiki's installed
<sabdfl> eish!
<sabdfl> the wiki she is not working
<sabdfl> BradB: ^
<BradB> it will again now
<sabdfl> ah
<BradB> i broke it temporarily to add the restrict method, but it didn't do what i expected, so i've removed it temporarily
<sabdfl> ok
* sabdfl is really starting to like zope3
<BradB> there, restricting works
<sabdfl> BradB: superstar, thanks
<sabdfl> the existing non-wiki content can be moved out?
<BradB> heh. last thing, i'll fix the navtree
<BradB> it can be moved, sure
<BradB> filtering should work fine in the navtree now
<BradB> i notice members can't add wiki pages though
<BradB> sabdfl: maybe that's how you guys want the perms though, i'm not sure. it's definitely configured to only allow managers to add wiki pages presently.
<sabdfl> definitely want members to be able to create wiki pages
<BradB> sabdfl: and delete pages?
<BradB> or rename?
<sabdfl> BradB: hmm.... maybe just managers for that
<sabdfl> rename, yes, it's gacefully handled i think
<sabdfl> not sure if rename to an existing name is caught well
<BradB> it is
<sabdfl> then yes, let members rename pages too
<BradB> sabdfl: should be go to go now
<sabdfl> navbar's still showing all the contents of /wiki/
<sabdfl> should just show "Wiki" with nothing beneath that
<sabdfl> forces the navigation inside the wiki to be wikinav only
<BradB> oh, i just config'd it to not show wiki pages
<BradB> hm
<sabdfl> hmm... maybe it just shows when you are logged in
<BradB> those folders'll show to anyone, because they're published
<BradB> basically, the list of meta types to not list in the navtree is a site-wide configuration
<BradB> so, i said site-wide to not show wiki pages in the navtree
<sabdfl> bradb: ok
<sabdfl> it's looking pretty slick now, what do you think?
<BradB> but since those folders are published, users still see them. can we make those folders under /wiki simply "visible"?
<sabdfl> >:-)
<BradB> seems pretty cool
<sabdfl> those folder really should not be there at all
<sabdfl> i gave the doc team some directions to start playing with it
<sabdfl> and they created that content
<sabdfl> i thought i'd cut and pasted the one folder to somewhere else
<BradB> if it's only going to be wiki pages under /wiki, then this problem will magically go away once those folders are moved to better locations.
<sabdfl> i guess the deleted pages one needs to stay there, but doens't have to be published
<BradB> it isn't currently (I'm assuming, because i don't see it while looking at the page unauth'd)
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> silly me :-)
<sabdfl> and the other folders are just cache hangovers, will be gone in an hour or two
<sabdfl> ok, i'm going to un-publish the wiki entry too, now we know it's working, so the doc team can continue to work quietly till we announce the switch
<BradB> you're seeing the other folders because you're a manager
<BradB> there's a site-wide setting that says "let managers see hidden content"
<BradB> i don't see anything but those two prev mentioned folders when logged in as b.b@c.c
<sabdfl> i've retracted the wiki content
<BradB> pages?
<sabdfl> so now we just have to get the old wiki content across and send out the announcement
<sabdfl> thanks bradb
<BradB> no prob
<sabdfl> pages?
<BradB> n/m, everything should be good
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net
<sabdfl> stevea: ping
<SteveA> hi
<SteveA> need a hand moving wiki content?
* SteveA pongs sabdfl by name
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: canonical.arch.infoUpdater bugfix and increased verbosity (patch-677)
<sabdfl> stevea: may have found a blocker on that front
* SteveA listens
<sabdfl> pages like /ReleaseSchedule
<sabdfl> in moin, these are nested
<sabdfl> so we have WartyWarthog/ReleaseSchedule
<sabdfl> and HoaryHedgehog/ReleaseSchedule
<sabdfl> what's the zwiki equivalent?
<sabdfl> can the zwiki span folders?
<sabdfl> can a folder be a wiki page?
<sabdfl> sort of
<sabdfl> everything was going swimmingly till that point though, Moin tables *no problem* :-)
<SteveA> they're not really nested, though, in moin
<SteveA> it is just using the name with an artificial / in it
<sabdfl> no, it's that bastard _2ef thing
<SteveA> in zwiki, you usually just catenate things:  WartyWarthogReleaseSchedule
<SteveA> there is no particular magic nesting
<SteveA> I'll just check about subfolders
<SteveA> can't see a way to do subfolders without making a new ZWiki (with its own namespace) inside that subfolder
<SteveA> if it really is a separate wiki namespace, then that's the thing to do
<SteveA> otherwise, we can use WikiBadges to organise things into subtopics
<SteveA> for example, have WartyWarthogRelated in each page that is to do with warty
<sabdfl> from a search point of view it's probably fine to do it in separate wikis
<SteveA> and so, that becomes a place where all warty-related things are linked from and too
<SteveA> yeah -- site search will pick it all up
<SteveA> But, a standard wiki name link won't work
<sabdfl> except in the local namespace
<SteveA> shouldn't be a hard feature to add, though, to make it work
<SteveA> yeah -- I mean between nested wikis
<sabdfl> would it require traversal hints in the name? ../HoaryHedgehog/ReleaseSchedule?
<SteveA> not sure what to do about the page that is the root of the nested wiki
<sabdfl> FrontPage as ever
<SteveA> if that is WartyWarthog, then is that in the containing wiki, or the nested wiki?
<SteveA> you can't have a page called WartyWarthog and a wiki folder called WartyWarthog
<sabdfl> and renaming could get fun
<sabdfl> hmm...
* sabdfl thinks
<SteveA> you'd do the link as a standard "external" link, or as an inter-wiki link
<sabdfl> maybe we should just concatenate and be done with it
<SteveA> yeah -- probably best to keep it simple to start with
<sabdfl> interwiki?
<SteveA> if warty / hoary grows its own stuff such that it would make sense to split it off, we can do that at that time
<SteveA> maybe with help of a couple of bounties to make it work better
* SteveA looks up interwiki links
<SteveA> http://zwiki.org/RemoteWikiLinks
<SteveA> I meant "remote wiki links"
<carlos> sabdfl: did we lost any chance to get ubuntu.org?
<sabdfl> carlos: i think so
<sabdfl> pity
<carlos> :-(
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: comments and better waterfall status (patch-62)
<ddaa> sabdfl: have you made a decision on the location of the arch sprint just before the conf?
<sabdfl> ddaa: london
<sabdfl> unless we can come to your house!
* ddaa ponders
<carlos> X-)
<ddaa> There are two double beds available, but I'm uncertain that I would get the clearance from the landlord :-)
<sabdfl> stevea: think we can do something semi-automatic on the migration?
<sabdfl> or should we just brute force it tomorrow?
<sabdfl> or get lulu to brute-force it Monday?
<sabdfl> erm, that would be cute-force it
<SteveA> we can probably do some things to make it easier.  maybe produce a web page with direct links to all the raw pages on the moin wiki
<SteveA> that way, lulu can click on each link, and there's the stuff ready for pasting into a new page on zwiki
<SteveA> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationArea?action=raw
<SteveA> for example
<SteveA> Here's a list of all pages in the moin wiki   http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TitleIndex?action=titleindex
<SteveA> but, a lot of those are to do with the wiki itself :-(
<sabdfl> yes, raw mode rocks
<sabdfl> hmm...
<sabdfl> could we nudge moin a little
<sabdfl> to put a button at the top of the page
<SteveA> there is a link at the top of the page
<sabdfl> that posts a form with the right voodoo over to site-edit?
<SteveA> oh..
<sabdfl> and pre-populate the form with the right stuff
<sabdfl> so lulu just clicks on that button and BOOM is in site-edit with the wiki page ready
* sabdfl is very good at sneaky plans, it's a useful character flaw
<SteveA> I guess that's possible.  I haven't looked at the moin code.
<SteveA> I wonder whether a bookmarklet could do it
<sabdfl> but the form contents and url would be predictable?
<sabdfl> bookmarklet?
<SteveA> bit of javascript you can put into a bookmark to extend your browser in interesting ways
<sabdfl> i'd rather use a more limited tool set
<SteveA> http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiBookmarklet
<sabdfl> we know python, moin and zope pretty well
<SteveA> this is a one-off.  and, I think there might be a bookmarklet that does almost what we need already.
<SteveA> I'll take a browse through http://www.bookmarklets.com/tools/categor.html
<mdz> redhat has a shortcut from the top
<mdz> -EWINDOW
* BradB just bought another powerbook; doubled my hardware specs, w00t
<BradB> panther rocks da boat
<BradB> bbl
<jblack> SteveA: Hey, you there? 
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net
<jblack> any zope guys around? 
<SteveA> hey j
<jblack> Hiya stevea.
<jblack> I'm trying to do z3rc2. ./configure reports an optimum python, but I get an include error
<SteveA> do you use jabber?
<jblack> No sir.
<SteveA> an include error is interesting
<SteveA> paste here?  http://paste.husk.org/
<jblack> http://paste.husk.org/1847
<SteveA> oh, that's an ImportError
<SteveA> not an include error
<SteveA> you haven't installed python-dev
<SteveA> so, you don't have distutils
<jblack> So I haven't.
<SteveA> I keep making the case that distutils should be part of the default python install
<SteveA> but, sabdfl and mdz (I think) think otherwise
<jblack> distutils is in python-dev, I take it? 
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> it is part of the standard library
<SteveA> I'm philosophically opposed to splitting the standard library
<SteveA> otherwise, it isn't "standard" any more
<SteveA> anyhow, enough trolling
<mdz> SteveA: I'm not sure about sabdfl, but that is not my position
<spiv> SteveA: There's an ubuntu bug about it...
<SteveA> mdz: ok, sorry I misrepresented
<mdz> SteveA: it's here in black and white: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1640
<spiv> mdz: Beat me to it :)
<jblack> There we go! :) 
<spiv> We had a user on #ubuntu today caught by this problem, too.
<spiv> So, I'm looking forward to it being fixed in hoary :)
<SteveA> jblack: if you feel it is appropriate, maybe add that you've been caught out by the odd error
<SteveA> to the bug report
<jblack> Doing...
<jblack> Hey... Silly thought?
<jblack> Would it be appropriate to add a check/warning to configure to check for python-dev? 
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> because distutils is in the standard library
<SteveA> it is a broken python installation that doesn't have all of the standard library
<SteveA> in order to get the full python installation on ubuntu, you need python and python-dev
<SteveA> but, this is not made clear
<SteveA> so, you were mislead into thinking you had a standard python installed
<SteveA> when in fact you had a non-standard subset
<jblack> Ahhh, because ubuntu didn't install it.
<SteveA> right.  "partial python" is in desktop or base or whatever
* jblack wonders if ubuntu sends the wrong message by not having a full development environment.
<mdz> FWIW, if this issue had been raised a couple of months earlier, it's quite likely that it would have been changed for the Warty release
<SteveA> I raised it a while ago
<SteveA> can't remember exactly when
<mdz> with me?
<SteveA> no, with mark
<SteveA> maybe I should have gone on the list too
<jblack> I moaned lightly about gcc on canonical.
<mdz> the first I heard about it was that bug report, which was about midway between preview and final
<mdz> not the time to make that kind of change
<jblack> actually, #warthogs
#launchpad 2004-11-04
<mdz> jblack: what about gcc?
<SteveA> I was in favour of keeping gcc out of desktop
<SteveA> but, I'm against splitting the python standard library
<jblack> mdz: iirc, gcc didn't come in desktop.
* SteveA must go to bed now, it being 1am and all that
<mdz> different issue, to my mind
<jblack> I'll buy that.
<sabdfl> i'm happy to discuss distutils again
<mdz> sabdfl: it's 600k of .py files
<mdz> no sensible reason to split it from the main python package that I see
<mdz> it seems historical, since they had previously been distributed separately
<sabdfl> main concern to me is its function
<sabdfl> given that i want python to be a first class citizen on ubuntu
<sabdfl> let's switch to -devel
<sabdfl> mdz:^
<BradB> kiko: dude, panther ROCKS
<kiko> BradB, tla speed pr0n ?
<BradB> not yet
<BradB> installing other stuff, but there will be much porn soon
<BradB> got a new powerbook today
<BradB> 15", 1.5 GHz w/ superdrive, uNF
<BradB> i keep saying to myself "sheesh, it feels like i got a new computer", then i'm like "oh yeah, i did"
<kiko> BradB, how much did it cost?
<BradB> $4K CAD
<BradB> i doubled my hardware specs
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> how much is that US$?
<BradB> 1.5 GHz G4, 80 G, 512 MB RAM, Panther, built-in bluetooth.
<BradB> these days? $4K. :)
* BradB checks
<kiko> hah!
<kiko> you know
<BradB> about 3250
<kiko> I've been wanting to buy a powerbook for a long time now
<kiko> but they are so damn expensive!
<BradB> this one was worth it
<kiko> I wonder
<BradB> dude, this thing adjusts to ambient lighting
<kiko> can you get a cheap one down there?
<kiko> ack
<BradB> if you turn of the lights, the screen dims
<kiko> that's killer
<BradB> turn em back on, goes brighter again
<kiko> heh
<BradB> it's insane
<BradB> cheap one down where?
<kiko> up in canada I guess. :)
<BradB> heh
<BradB> i can get one for the price i got one, that's about it
<BradB> this was the souped up 15" though
<BradB> the other 15" is like 600 cheaper
* BradB gathers some Z3 unit test pr0n
<BradB> kiko: several of the apps are way, way better now too
<BradB> both at the good ole unix level, and os x's apps
<BradB> e.g. i hated that ls -h or df -h didn't work in jaguar. tar didn't even have --exclude
<BradB> now they're all sane again
<BradB> Mail.app is actually looking like a reasonable (eye-candy) replacement for mutt.
<BradB> it does cool little things too, like when i make a new rule, and i choose a header on which to make that rule, it auto-fills it with the value from the email i'm looking at
<BradB> and does what appears to be good threading finally
<kiko> heh
<kiko> neat that the unix apps are coming forward
<kiko> so 
<kiko> how much is a cheap PB up there?
<BradB> the hardware's way better too. i don't have to knock over my beer anymore trying to finagle my iPod's firewire into the back of the machine, because all the ports are along the sides.
<BradB> kiko: are you trying to get the newest model?
<kiko> nop
<kiko> the cheapest model that is still decent
<BradB> hm
<BradB> that'd probably be the other pb i have. i'm not looking to sell that one though. not sure.
<kiko> it can be 12-13i
<BradB> k, you mean? :)
<BradB> er, no
<kiko> heh
<kiko> i for inches :)
<BradB> aye
<BradB> there's only a 12, i guess
<kiko> yeah.
<kiko> there's a sony 13i wide-screen that runs at 1280 which rocks
<BradB> you can get a brand new 12-inch for 2099 CAD
<kiko> but since I need something powerpc..
<kiko> really?
<BradB> http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/canadastore.woa/71303/wo/3F3HnbOzBIKq3mjqmqCHqCxYROp/0.0.9.1.0.6.21.1.1.1.1.0.0.1.0
<BradB> somehow i paid $50 less than that page advertises for my pb
<BradB> "Free Shipping", heh.
<kiko> heh
<kiko> that's not too expensive, is it?
<BradB> nope
<BradB> no point getting used
<kiko> hey, if used is half-price, there is :)
<BradB> well, yeah :)
<kiko> are there such good deals?
<BradB> there might be, but none that i know of offhand, mainly because waiting until a good deal comes along was not really an option for me
<BradB> (because having exactly one machine on which to work was hectic)
<kiko> yeah.
<sabdfl> BradB: drool
<sabdfl> sounds awesome
<BradB> heh heh
<sabdfl> is the fs better in panther?
<BradB> it's the same one
<BradB> i'm benchmarking running z3 unit tests right now
<sabdfl> what's the diff between hfs+ and ufs?
<sabdfl> for a new Z3 context object, should I subclass anything other than (object)?
<BradB> there are several: what you call the thing that you mount, the path separator, case sensitivity, etc.
<BradB> "context object"?
<BradB> context is just something; something is a fairly vague thing
<BradB> you mean a content class?
-dmwaters(dmwaters@dmwaters-gentoo.staff.freenode)- {global notice} Hi all! We appologize for that uh interuption. a script was ran that accidently restarted several of the ircds. Blame alindeman :) Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
<sabdfl> yes, a content class
<sabdfl> i've got a content class that works fine, except that I can't use set_schema
<sabdfl> it doesn't work
<sabdfl> but it works fine if i use set_attributes
<BradB> it needs to implement a schema
<BradB> or, maybe it doesn't
<sabdfl> it does
<BradB> what's the error?
<sabdfl> forbidden attribute
<sabdfl> 'sbizarre
<BradB> are you sure the things you mention in set_schema are in the schema?
<sabdfl> works just fine with set_attrbutes="x y z"
<sabdfl> yes, as Attribute()'s
<BradB> mm
<BradB> http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope3Book/contentobject.html explains it in more detail. Maybe you need to inherit from IContained.
<BradB> we probably want to be using set_schema consistently
<BradB> but hm, SQLBase is ultimately just inheriting from SQLObject.
<sabdfl> i think this is an egg-man bug
<BradB> heh
<jblack> I'm trying to do that blasted zope3 tutorial again. I've got an import problem on the buddydemo. Any zope guys conversant with it? 
<jblack> Ok. figured it out. the programmer tutorial is wrong. It shouldn't go in src/buddydemo, it should go in lib/python/buddydemo
<BradB> jblack: sounds like you're using a release. perhaps it was assuming an svn checkout.
<jblack> BradB: You know zope3? 
<BradB> I know how to do some things in Zope 3.
<jblack> Possibly enough to tell me what went wrong in the programmer tutorial this time? 
<jblack> I'm getting a gripe in buddyemo/configure.zcml, line 6.0 "NameError: name 'zope' is not defined
<jblack> I just did slides 11-20
<jblack> (and I'm more than happy to scp up the instance to your machine for you to look at
<sabdfl> BradB: figured out a little bit of the zope3 widget machinery
<BradB> sabdfl: Able to use things that inherit from object, hopefully.
<BradB> (with set_schema)
<BradB> jblack: it'd be easier if you just paste your buddydemo/configure.zcml at paste.husk.org
<sabdfl> BradB: no, didn't get that right
<BradB> jblack: I bought a new powerbook btw. It's shiny.
<sabdfl> i do suspect a zope3 issue there
<jblack> http://paste.husk.org/1848
<BradB> sabdfl: What things did you learn about widgets?
<sabdfl> basically, how to subclass Text, and the TextAreaWidget, so that the bug edit form is a bit neater
<sabdfl> it's a shitload of work for a very small bit of neater
<BradB> ah, from the chapters in the Z3DG?
<jblack> bradb: Yeah
<sabdfl> but i suppose once it's done it's done
<BradB> yep
<sabdfl> i'm trying to figure out how we make the generated forms look as good as the handcrafted ones
<sabdfl> if it can be done, then i'll buy into the autogenerated thing
<BradB> sabdfl: I think it's very, very doable. Afterall, for 80-90% if the add/edit forms we haven't, there probably isn't a need for them to look really customized (uniformity and consistency are, afterall, Good Things)...it's just a matter of figuring out what visual knobs can be turned with CSS and the like.
<BradB> s/we haven't/we have/
<sabdfl> same is probably true of the forms we haven't :-)
<sabdfl> i've figured out the actual widget bit
<BradB> heh
<sabdfl> now need to figure out the wrapper
<sabdfl> the bit that puts the summary etc there
<sabdfl> the text
<sabdfl> right now it uses the title
<BradB> jblack: it's one of two problems. either your pythonpath isn't correct or you need to import that module specifically in zcml.
<sabdfl> but the hand crafted fields look a lot better, present more info
<BradB> jblack: (probably the latter)
<sabdfl> i'm going to try to figure out the rest tomorrow
<jblack> Yeah. Odds are that ubuntu has a sane importpath.
<jblack> pardon. sane pythonpath.
<BradB> sabdfl: sounds promising though
<jblack> it would be odd that a zope instance doesn't import zope though, wouldn't it? 
<sabdfl> night all
<BradB> night sabdfl 
<jblack> sleep well boss.
<BradB> jblack: there are easy ways of testing this though
<BradB> mm, no, scratch that (there are, but scratch that)
<jblack> I haven't gotten the unit testing working yet either.
<jblack> Ohhh, yes I have.
<jblack> Though something still ain't right there. 
<jblack>   >>> bud = Buddy('Bob', 'Smith')
<jblack>   >>> bud.name()
<BradB> jblack: how are you starting z3?
<jblack> I was trying bin/runzope
<jblack> btw, before I added the interface stuff, I was able to add buddies in the web interface.
<BradB> can you paste the whole traceback? i'm learning here too, because i've never seen an error like that, but it's almost surely something really straightforward, given enough context.
<jblack> http://paste.husk.org/1849
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: a basic widget for bug summaries (patch-678)
<BradB> jblack: for one, you've got a syntax error in the zcml
<BradB> for ".interfaces.IBuddy"
<jblack> I believe you, but that's a straight paste from the tutorial
<BradB> through an = sign in there and see if that changes anything
<BradB> after than, try commenting out that require and see what happens
<BradB> s/than/that/
<jblack> http://paste.husk.org/1850
<jblack> (thats slide 16)
<jblack> There's nothing in the name method. Maybe the slide cut it.
<BradB> nope, it's an interface
<BradB> but there's either a syntax error in that python code as well (indentation error), or a mix of tabs and spaces.
<jblack> I did find the missing = in configure.zcml though
<jblack> oh. found a missing import
<jblack> and a missing import re, and it works. 
<jblack> Now if I could just figure out why it stopped listening on port 8081...
<BradB> hehe
<jblack> Thanks for the help bradb. I'm back on track
<BradB> cool, no prob
<jblack> WHoo! 
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net
<sabdfl> SteveA: around?
<SteveA> hey sabdfl
<sabdfl> hiya SteveA
<sabdfl> well it's been an interesting tour of zope3 form autogeneration this weekend :-)
<SteveA> is it hot or not?
<sabdfl> i'm trying to establish if i can get some of our autogenerated forms to looks as god as the hand-crafted ones
<sabdfl> wel...
<sabdfl> large amounts of effort for little return so far
<sabdfl> skimpy docs, the usual
<sabdfl> wanted to lob a few eggs in your direction but didn't want to disturb the w/e
<SteveA> when I used it on a project a while ago, I ended up nor using the standard "edit form" stuff, but using a custom variant on it.
<sabdfl> seems that stub knows a bit about it and has been laying the foundations in malone
<SteveA> I haven't kept up with changes to it, though
<sabdfl> you would be better placed than me to do custom variants on machinery that's a little outside my immediate ken :-)
<sabdfl> anyhow, i'm slowly coming to grips with it
<sabdfl> slowly
<SteveA> the thing I found was that is was very easy to waste a lot of time making a particular form work, if that form goes outside one of the assumptions behind the autogenerated form machinery.
<SteveA> if you notice these soon enough, and do them manually, it's okay
<SteveA> if you don't... lots of painful and non-obvious coding around things
<sabdfl> well, limi has set the bar quite high in terms of the look we should expect from our forms
<sabdfl> i think we are going to have to produce a set of custom field and widget classes
<sabdfl> i want to hammer on this a while and then we can discuss a general system for the team
<sabdfl> i am thinking at the moment that we might produce a mixin class for widget and field
<sabdfl> because mainly i want to put the same decoration on any kind of field
<sabdfl> but there are also potentially custom requirements for context-aware fields
<SteveA> not sure we'd need new fields, except where we've got a truely new kind of thing
<SteveA> I think pov have done a lot of work on these
<SteveA> certainly marius has been filing and fixing bugs in it recently
<sabdfl> current fields allow for title, description, required
<sabdfl> yes, found him on a couple of proposals related to this
<sabdfl> which sounded rather sane
<sabdfl> you have a good weekend?
<SteveA> not bad.  more of a lazy weekend, catching up on sleep and generally hanging out
<SteveA> yours?
<sabdfl> tried to sleep but had total insomnia
<SteveA> try more exercise?
<SteveA> then again, I find if I exercise too much, it stops me from sleeping
<sabdfl> yes i think i'm the latter stage
<sabdfl> too much to think about at the moment
<sabdfl> ok, so i'm using the normal addform machinery
<sabdfl> with a custom pt
<sabdfl> there's this sort of useful-looking hook:
<sabdfl>         <div metal:define-slot="extra_info" tal:replace="nothing">
<sabdfl>         </div>
<sabdfl> how do i pass information to that?
<SteveA> do you know about METAL ?
<SteveA> If not, I should explain just a little about that first.
<SteveA> we use two namespaces in page templates: tal: and metal:
<SteveA> the metal: is for "macro processing".  The metal directives get processed first, and then the resulting template is treated as a whole for tal: expressions.
<SteveA> think of it like #includes.
<sabdfl> yes
<SteveA> The div above defines a slot called "extra_info".  You can fill it from your template with <div metal:fill-slot="extra_info">
<sabdfl> This is at the top of the pt:
<sabdfl>       metal:use-macro="context/@@malone_template/master"
<SteveA> where is that hook that you pasted?
<sabdfl> about halfway into the page
<SteveA> in which page?
<sabdfl> lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/default-addform.pt
<sabdfl> i've actually copied it to bug-addform and started to use that
<sabdfl> i'm adding some of the plone-style widget decoration
<sabdfl> fieldset etc
<sabdfl> also, i'll want to figure out this line:
<sabdfl>         <div metal:use-macro="context/@@form_macros/widget_rows" />
<sabdfl> where is widget_rows defined?
<sabdfl> hey it's sunday don't boil too many eggs on my account
<sabdfl> ok, i found widget_macros.pt
<sabdfl> in lib/zope/app/form/browser
<sabdfl> i'll want to customise that, how do i do that?
* sabdfl can hear the hamster's wheel spinning
<sabdfl> workrave
<SteveA> in the zcml directive for addforms, there's a 'template' attribute, and a 'default_template' attribute
<sabdfl> the template is what i'm customising already
<sabdfl> what's the default template?
<SteveA> oh, red-herring
<sabdfl> :-)
<SteveA> as far as I can tell, the extra_info slot is for when you're using the standard zope template, and you want to be able to do certain customizations without coming up with a new template of your own.
<sabdfl> can the view push data into the slots at all?
<sabdfl> oh, so the standard rendering of this uses another template and fills that slot?
<SteveA> I think the way you're supposed to provide your own template for this is that you write a minmal template that uses macros from the default template
<sabdfl> how about the second question, about customising widget_macros.pt
<sabdfl> oh right
<SteveA> so, you don't end up copy-pasting the code from zope, but just including the bits you want
<sabdfl> so instead of copying it
<SteveA> wish there were docs on this, though
<sabdfl> just write a really small one that pushes in heading and extra info etc
<sabdfl> ok, that's quite nice
<sabdfl> because we can do a single master addform template for launchpad
<SteveA> yeah, I guess so.  I think you'd need some way of specifying that you want to use macros from the standard add form
<SteveA> yeah, that would work
<SteveA> in fact, we'd need a StandardMacros object then
<sabdfl> now, about the second questions
<sabdfl> widget_macros
<sabdfl> how do i override that to be something else?
<SteveA> that's what we did in zope3 -- rather than have to remember which template exactly has the macros you want, you have an object that collects macros from a bunch of useful "basic" template
<SteveA> s
* SteveA looks at widget_macros.pt
<sabdfl> i want to redefine widget_rows
<SteveA> in the configure.zcml of that package, I see that you can get the widget_macros.pt template as a view on anything, called widget_macros
<SteveA> well, there are two ways to do this
<SteveA> you can redefine the widget_macros view for the launchpad layer
<SteveA> most straightforward way is to make your own copy-paste-altered version of widget_macros.py
<sabdfl> right, just copy it and customise it and make it available under a different name
<SteveA> er .pt
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> but, make it available under the *same name*
<SteveA> but in the launchpad layer
<sabdfl> o.....k....
<SteveA> by using the launchpad layer, we're saying "we can override the defaults in zope in the context of the launchpad application"
<SteveA> rosetta and malone layers extend the launchpad layer
<sabdfl> how do i register it for the launchpad layer?
<SteveA>   <browser:page
<SteveA>       for="*"
<SteveA>       name="widget_macros"
<SteveA>       layer="canonical.launchpad.layers/LaunchpadLayer"
<SteveA>       permission="zope.Public"
<SteveA>       template="widget_macros.pt"
<SteveA>       />
<sabdfl> i'm going to put the registration into zcml/bug.zcml for the moment, because those are the add/edit forms i want to fix first
<SteveA> with the template in the correct place, of course
<SteveA> so, whatever is currently using widget_macros will get it as context/@@widget_macros
<sabdfl> is there a more appropriate zcml file for this?
<SteveA> and, it will automatically get your version inside launchpad
<SteveA> launchpadlayer-stuff.zcml ?
<SteveA> launchpad-widgets.zcml ?  launchpad-forms.zcml ?
<SteveA> the latter, I suppose
<SteveA> this is all about how we want forms to look in launchpad
<sabdfl> let me get it right in the bug stuff, then we can move it
<SteveA> k
<sabdfl> can i replace * with something more localised?
<sabdfl> canonical.launchpad.layers/LaunchpadLayer
<sabdfl> is the / intentional?
<SteveA> no, it is wrong
<SteveA> should be a .
<SteveA> you could replace * with IMaloneBugThing or whatever you're working on
<SteveA> if the change is meant only for that one thing
<sabdfl> is it the interface of the context?
<SteveA> yes, exactly
<sabdfl> or the container that has the addform?
<SteveA> I expect this will be looked up as context/@@widget_macros
<SteveA> oh, that could get a bit more complex
<SteveA> there's IAddings involved there -- views on views
<SteveA> erm -- maybe stick with "*"
<SteveA> I should go make food, and then watch donnie darko on dvd.
<sabdfl> weird movie
<SteveA> picked up the dvd at the airport for three quid
<SteveA> as the director's cut was out for about 20
<SteveA> and being heavily advertised
* SteveA --> cooking
<sabdfl> directors cut might be interesting
<sabdfl> SteveA: can't seem to access my custom copy of the widget
<sabdfl> it's not being used, the old one is
<SteveA> As a debugging measure, try declaring it not in the launchpad layer, but without a layer attribute, and declare it for zope.interface.Interface, not for *
<SteveA> that's a crappy way of getting it registered, but if it works, it shows that you're not doing anything wrong, and for some reason the layer isn't being used.
<SteveA> (it was too late at night to watch a full film after eating, so we've settled for an episode or two of futurama instead)
<sabdfl> still around?
<sabdfl> stevea: ^?
<SteveA> yeah, just about
* SteveA pings sabdfl
<sabdfl> yo
<sabdfl> so i'm now crafting the actual template
<sabdfl> the one which will fill the slots of the default_template
<sabdfl> and i've no idea what that one's header should look like
<sabdfl> <html>
<sabdfl> ?
<sabdfl> should it refer explicitly to the launchpad-addform.pt?
<sabdfl> or is that all handled by the machinery?
<sabdfl> and here's where it gets interesting
<sabdfl> the addform template itself is clearly referring to a master template
<SteveA> is launchpad-addform.pt registered as a view on anything?
<sabdfl> so can these templates be layered in a stack?
<sabdfl> yes, it works as the view on a bug add
<sabdfl> i' now trying to generalise it
<sabdfl> so that for new add forms we just make a tiny template
<sabdfl> that has the appropriate document description, headings etc
<SteveA> provided each template is registered as a view on something, sure, you can use many of them using bits of each other
<sabdfl> ok, so let's assume there are three of them
<sabdfl> master
<SteveA> the general model is using a macro, which has slots in it
<sabdfl> default-addform
<sabdfl> table-addform
<sabdfl> in the default-addform, when there is a fill-slot, that would fill a slot in the master?
<sabdfl> and when there's a define-slot, that's something the table-addform can fill?
<SteveA> assuming default-addform has a use-macro refering to a macro of the master template
<SteveA> you're filling a slot of whatever macro you're inside of, in the code of the template the fill-slot is in
<sabdfl> so for the table-addform do i need a use-macro?
<sabdfl> or does the addform machinery automatically do that
<sabdfl> given that it has default_template for the default-addform
<SteveA> from the code I saw, the default_template is what is used if you don't supply a "template"
<sabdfl> erm that doesn't make sense to me
<SteveA> you don't need to supply a 'template' in your zcml
<sabdfl> why have both "template" and "default_template" attributes
<SteveA> there is a default 'template' that is used instead
<SteveA> 'default_template' isn't meant to be used in zcml
<sabdfl> ah.
<SteveA> it can be used if you subclass the class, I think
<sabdfl> that's not what i understood previously
<sabdfl> it seems as if this addform, which is copied from the zope dir, is designed to be used as an "intermediate" template
<SteveA> I'm still not sure I understand -- I only skimmed throught the code.
<sabdfl> as i described above
<sabdfl> in any event, say i want to refer to the template directly, from another template
<sabdfl> how do i do that?
<SteveA> I suppose it would use the macros and slots of the master template
<SteveA> if you want to use macros from a template
<SteveA> then first you need to get to the template.  usually, they are registered as views on an object.  so, context/@@view_name
<sabdfl> what would be the name?
<SteveA> for widget_macros.pt it was widget_macros
<SteveA> it is whatever it is registered in zcml as
<sabdfl> hmm.. this is getting murky again
<sabdfl> ok, here's what i understood
<sabdfl> and what makes some sense
<sabdfl> that it's pssible to define a general site-wide template
<SteveA> where you want to use a particular macro, you put  metal:use-macro="context/@@view_name/macro_name"
<sabdfl> and then a custom template will use that one
<SteveA> if you explicitly use the site-wide template's macros in your custom template, yes
<SteveA> the building blocks you have are metal:use-macro="context/@@view_name_of_template_with_macros/macro_name"
<SteveA> and filling slots in that macro inside the element you chose to use the macro from
<SteveA> usually, we suse the macro on the whole template (the html element)
<SteveA> and fill the "body" slot, (or "page" slot or "content" slot) and perhaps others
<SteveA> that's the most basic way to use macros
<sabdfl> ok, this will take some fiddling
<SteveA> you can also use macros to include any parts of another template where you can 1. get at the template and 2. that template has defined appropriate macros around the parts of it you want to reuse elsewhere
<sabdfl> do the attributes of the macro override the attributes of the element in the calling document?
<SteveA> you mean the element where you say "metal:use-macro" ?
<sabdfl> yes
<SteveA> note that this isn't "calling" at all.  it will become very confusing if you think of it like that. 
<SteveA> it is "including"
<sabdfl> ok, so they supplement them
<SteveA> you're building up a synthetic page template (that you'll never see) from parts of other templates plus your own
<SteveA> that whole template is then "executed" in terms of its tal:
<SteveA> in the element where you say "metal:use-macro", I think the whole element disappears
<SteveA> but, I may be mis-remembering
<SteveA> basically, the whole element disappears, except where you have slots inside it
<SteveA> yeah -- that must be so, because of how in the simple use of metal, you put use-macro in the html element of your template
<sabdfl> que?
<sabdfl> so basically, a use-macro in the html element wipes out the document?
<SteveA> that nukes your html element, and in fact your whole template, except where you have said "metal:fill-slot"
<SteveA> yeah
<SteveA> use-macro in an element says "I want what the other template says for this element.  except where I fill its slots"
<sabdfl> cant be
<sabdfl> let me check
<sabdfl> blow me down, seems true
<sabdfl> can you have both fill-slot and define-slot elements inside a use-macro?
<sabdfl> for layered templates?
<SteveA> yeah
<SteveA> it can get complex pretty quickly, though
<SteveA> especially as the exact "include" nature of macros is a bit subtle
<sabdfl> yeah, this default-addform is fun
<sabdfl> is has a use-macro in the html
<sabdfl> then it fill-slot's the "main" slot
<sabdfl> inside that, it has both define-macro ("formbody" and "addform" etc) and define-slot elements
<SteveA> maybe you can draw a "map" of it in dia?
<SteveA> might help with maintenance
* SteveA -> bed
<sabdfl> night
<sabdfl> will try to write it up once i've got it working the way i want
#launchpad 2004-11-05
<sabdfl> damn this stuff is well thought out
<sabdfl> hairy and poorly documented but nonetheless well thought out
<sabdfl> whoot! phear my phorms
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: good looking autogenerated edit and add forms for bugs (patch-679)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: good looks for ALL  autogenerated add and edit forms (patch-680)
<stub> Morning
<jblack> Any zope guys around? 
<stub> jblack: Yo
<jblack> stub: I'm finally starting to get zope.
<stub> You should see a doctor
<jblack> Heh. Yeah. It took being sick to do it. :) 
<jblack> But anyways.... I've setup an object, and I can refer to attributes in the interface. That's fine and all.
<jblack> But I don't seem to be able to include just an object. 
<stub> I don't get that second sentence.
<jblack> I.E. I can do <div tal:content="context/James/name">A name</div>, but I can't do <div tal:content="context/James">Showing a whole object</div>  
<stub> oic. 
<lifeless> __str__ ?
<lifeless> in the interface.
* lifeless us guessing
<lifeless> *is*
<jblack> Well, if I point at localhost:8080/James/ I get a nice html layout of the information (thanks to info.pt)
<stub> I don't think it even needs to be in the interface - it just needs one.
<jblack> I'd like to include that.
<lifeless> stub: surely thats a whole in the interfaces implementation? 
<jblack> stub: So what? Its "ok" to put html in an interface? 
<stub> jblack: No - ignore the __str__ -- that isn't what we want in this case. That would be if you just wanted context/James to render 'James' or something.
<stub> What is the name of the view that uses info.py? (The name in the page directive most likely)
<jblack> No clue. The only place I referenced info.pt was in configure.zcml
<stub> If it was 'index' for example, you should be able to do this as tal:content="structure context/James/index" or tal:content="structure context/James/@@index"
<jblack> Oh, you mean the page I'm trying to do this? yeah, index.html
<stub> ok. So first try context/James/index.html or context/James/@@index.html (the second one is more explicity - 'the index.html View on the James object')
<stub> lifeless: I would have to test to be sure. I suspect some methods are exposed by default (and should not include protected information), because otherwise things like tracebacks become impossible. Not sure what the current status is though.
<lifeless> stub: hmm.
* lifeless thinks that is crack
<jblack> nope. system error for contex/James/@@index, context/James/index and context/James/@@index.html, ...@@info.pt, ...info.pt
<jblack> Oh yeah. I get a security error when I just use "context/James" 
<stub> What is context btw? A container of some kind?
<jblack> Just something I seem to need. If I don't have that, I get "Path element may not be empty in u'/James/name' 
<stub> Zope publishes a tree of objects. These objects are generally your context. You attach Views to them.
<stub> So you have a page foo.pt which you register as a view named 'foo.html' on an object. In this case 'context' is object. 'context/James' would be a child named 'James' of that object.
<jblack> What's the difference between a view and an interface? 
<jblack> I see that according to the graph, a view calls the interface, which defines the interface for a class.
<stub> An interface is an interface, like a Java interface. It just specifies a contract that object that implement the interface has to adhire to.
<stub> Calling an interface doesn't make sense. If you see syntax like IFoo(someobject), that is actually Adaption which is something different.
<jblack> Ok. the view definitions go in configure.zcml.
<stub> Yes
<jblack> such as <browser:page \n for=".interfaces.IBuddy" \n name="index.html" \n template="info.pt"  \n permission="zope.View" \n />
<jblack> Ahhhaaa
<stub> A View provides a, well, view of an object. You define an object that defines data, behaviour etc. However, it shouldn't have to know how to render itself as HTML. To do that, we attach a View to it. These views are traversable, thanks to Zope, so that 'localhost:8080/James/foo.html' means 'show me the foo.html view of the James object'
<jblack> So why doesn't <div tal:replace="context/James/index.html"></div> work? 
<jblack> according to my log, I get: 
<jblack> NotFoundError: (<buddydemo.buddy.Buddy object at 0x4392d56c>, 'index.html')
<stub> Can you tell me the URL you used to view 'index.html of James' and the URL you are trying to use for this example?
<stub> ok... buddy demo..
<jblack> lynx localhost:8080
<jblack> and in index.html, I have in the body, the div tal:replace I mentioned.
<stub> So we have IBuddy, and an object instance that implements IBuddy called 'James'.
<stub> We have attached a view named 'index.html' to all objects that implement the IBuddy interface (the <browser:page directive from before)
<jblack> yes, and yes
<stub> You have created a page template in the root of your Z3 tree called something, which is trying to include the index.html view of the James object
<jblack> Incorrect.
<jblack> Actually ,yes. That's correct.
<stub> So in this case context should be 'the root folder', and 'context/James' should refer to the James object stored in the root folder.
<jblack> correct.
<jblack> but if I do that, I get a security error.
<jblack>    <security proxied buddydemo.buddy.Buddy instance at 0x4392892c>
<jblack> That shows up in the browser. The log looks fine.
<stub> First thing, before I forget, is you will need to use tal:content="structure blahblahblah" instead of tal:content="blahblahblah", or else all your HTML will be quoted.
<jblack> Changed
<stub> You should get <security proxied buddydemo blah blah> if you do tal:content="context/James". Zope is trying its best to render the James object, and the best it can do is use the __repr__ method of its security proxy. This is correct.
<jblack> Ok. so it should be context/James/index.html.
<stub> What do you get if you have tal:content="structure context/James/@@index.html" 
<stub> Yes
<jblack> Hmmm. I must have a typo then, because that gives me: NotFoundError: (<zope.app.security.principalregistry.UnauthenticatedPrincipal objectat 0x4167806c>, 'title')
<stub> You can fix the class definition of the James object to allow the syntax you want by defining the __call__ method I think
<stub> Looks like something is trying to do tal:content="user/title" and this is failing.
<stub> Does anything look like that in info.pt ?
<jblack> Nothing that references title, no
<jblack> btw, if I go to http://localhost:8080/James, the object represents correctly.
<jblack> If it would help, I'm more than willing to tarball this for you.
<stub> So the name= attribute of the browser:page element in configure.zcml is definitly name="index.html" ?
<stub> Sure - tarball it and email to stuart@stuartbishop.net
<jblack> On its way.
<jblack> btw, thanks. I appreciate the help
<stub> jblack: And the source of the document that is trying to do tal:content="context/James/index.html" ?
<jblack>  /index.html
<jblack> Its in the zobdb
<stub> You will have to cut'n'paste it
<jblack> oh, that didn't come with the tarball? 
<jblack> http://www.pastebin.com/113455
<stub> Nice PHP tags in there :)
<jblack> that's done by pastebin. its not in my script. ;) 
<stub> Are you able to turn off View permissions on the /index.html page tempate to unauthenticated users? (I can't remember if that can be done atm in Z3)
<jblack> I have no idea how to do that.
<stub> Doesn't matter - I've remembered how that works. What I'm trying to work out is why the log is saying the URL is 'localhost:8080/index.html/index.html'
<jblack> I don't get it. Isn't this a pretty basic fundamental property of zope?
<jblack> To be able to do stuff like this? 
<stub> Yes. I need to trace down what is trying to access the unauthenticatedprincipal, which is what is raising the exception.
<stub> At first glance it looks like a bug, either in the error reporting or in one of the templates that is being included
<stub> Z3 is not focused on the TTW stuff though at the moment, so the TTW page templates could have problems.
<stub> Goddammit I can't drive svn anymore :-(
<stub> (Not that I ever could...)
* jblack laughs evilly
<jblack> I take it you mean a z3 builtin template? I haven't gotten to doing templates and metal just yet.
<stub> Yes - something builtin.
<jblack> should I try changing the view name from index.html to something else? 
<stub> jblack: The syntax is correct and everything should be working. I suspect the problem is in the TTW page templates implementation. I tried it with your code with a SVN checkout of the Z3 trunk and am getting exceptions. However, I can happily add views which do the equivalent.
<jblack> I'm confused. Other views work fine, but mine is hosed/ 
<stub> Are you running the beta tarball or a svn checkout btw?
<jblack> I'm running the release candidate
<stub> What is happening (I think) is the TTW page templates implementation is unable to include the view inside itself - it trips over its own security implementation
<jblack> ZopeX3-3.0.0c2
<stub> (which would be a bug)
<jblack> how do I work around it? 
<stub> I'm attaching views to the interface '*' (ie. every damn object), which is not exactly an optimal work around :-)
<stub> <browser:page for="*" name="includer.html" template="includer.pt" permission="zope.View" />
<jblack> With that change, I get NotFoundError: (<buddydemo.buddy.Buddy object at 0x4392d56c>, 'includer.html')
<jblack> (yes, I renamed info.pt to includer.pt)
<jblack> and my [top]  / index.html has the following pertinant line: <div tal:replace="structure context/James/@@includer.html"></div>
<stub> Erm... you would need to create includer, not use info.pt
<stub> (where includer.pt contains the same code as in your TTW page template)
<stub> I'll see if anyone bites on #zope3-dev. You are probably one of the first people to try doing this with TTW page templates. Most of the people involved don't use any of the TTW stuff so it needs lovin'.
<jblack> What do people normally do instead? 
<jblack> They use slots instead or something? 
<stub> We would create a BuddyContainer object designed to hold Buddy's. Then attach Views to the Buddy container. What you have is similar, except replace ZODB root folder with Buddy container and View with TTW page template.
<stub> What you are doing should work fine though
<stub> Its being looked into by bigger brains than mine
<jblack> Thanks for digging into this, stub
* stub hands jblack a badge with the label 'Successful Z3 beta tester'
* jblack cries
<jblack> so, when a new version of zope comes out, how do I upgrade an instance? 
<carlos> morning
<jblack> Ok. So make a folder, put buddies in there instead.
<stub> jblack: You just install the new Z3 code and it all happily keeps working (well... if it doesn't it is a major bug :-) )
<jblack> Oh, didn't realize instances depended on the install
<stub> jblack: Your code works just fine on a checkout of the Z3X branch (so it has either been fixed in rc3 or later). It is still broken in the Z3 trunk though, so it was a good catch.
<jblack> doesn't c1 postdate rc3? 
<stub>  svn co svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/Zope3/branches/ZopeX3-3.0
<stub> Hmm...
<stub> I though you said rc2 before
<SteveA> lifeless, stub: __repr__ is public by default.  __str__ generally is not.
<SteveA> If your application depends on particular behaviour from __str__, then it should be in the interface.  The case with __repr__ is arguable either way, but I think that if your application depends on a *particular* __repr__ representation, it is broken, and it should be in the interface.
<stub> jblack: Your code works just fine on my ZopeX3-3.0c2 installation
<jblack> Huh. That's what I'm using. ZopeX3--3.0.0c2
<stub> Yup. So I don't know what is wrong at your end :-)
<sabdfl> morning all
<sabdfl> stub: i've got the pretty-forms stuff working in a shoddy way, will clean it up today
<SteveA> our forms are pretty shoddy
<sabdfl> bug-addform is as it should be?
<sabdfl> sorry, no ? required
<sabdfl> SteveA: why?
<stub> Yup. So how did you go with the form machinery stuff? PITA or did it grow on you?
<SteveA> sabdfl: bad pun.  you said "i've got the pretty-forms stuff working in a shoddy way"
<sabdfl> stub: there was no documentation to do what i wanted to do, so it was a weekend of groping in the dark
<sabdfl> ah :-)
<sabdfl> stub: found what i think was your work (default-addform, default-editform) and built on that
<sabdfl> i think we can get it relatively pretty for relatively little work now
<sabdfl> but eventually we are going to need qute a few custom widget classes
<sabdfl> still, should be doable
<stub> Yup. We can also fix the Z3 stuff if it gets in the way. I think it is the right tool to use, but others might not agree ;)
<stub> I'm having flashbacks from my last job with all that informative text included inline in the form ;)
<carlos> sabdfl: I need to add a Rosetta specific attribute to the Person interface and class, should I create a RosettaPerson for that or could I use the main object directly?
<sabdfl> carlos: what's the attribute
<carlos> well, at this moment it's already inside person.py implementation, it's its move from Schema/Label to a real table (PersonLanguage)
<carlos> but the interface does not have it
<carlos> Person.languages
<carlos> Person.addLanguage
<carlos> and the needed RelatedJoin attribute
<sabdfl> carlos: absolutely, add that to the person class
<carlos> ok
<sabdfl> we want to avoid local copies of the classes as much as possible
<sabdfl> later on, maybe we can split functionality up but for the moment put everything you need into Person directly
<carlos> ok
<carlos> later this week, I will add the License object, where should It be stored?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/sqlos--test--3.0: Workaround for 'destroySelf breaks commits' problem (patch-3)
<SteveA> in our database, the fundamental unit of licensing is the source package.
<sabdfl> carlos: it's a new table so it gets database/license.py, zcml/license.zcml, interfaces/license.py etc
* Kinnison discovers that someone has been adding constraints to the db in such a way that gina no longer works
<carlos> ok
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Are we coding in american or in english? (I ask because currently there's an amusing mix of the two in the codebase)
<SteveA> zope3 standard is us english
<SteveA> (point of information)
<SteveA> I think python is in us english too.  seeing as we're using the zope3 and python apis, we should use us english.
<Kinnison> Well; the binarypackage table has a 'licence' column which is clearly en_GB
<Kinnison> This is why I'm asking y'see :-)
<Kinnison> Or at least; en_US always seems to use 'license'
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: Make taxi work again (patch-63)
<carlos> spiv: ping
<spiv> carlos: pong
<carlos> spiv: I'm using a RelatedJoin that will give me addLanguage and removeLanguage methods for free
<carlos> I suppose that I should add them to the interface file, right?
<spiv> If they're part of the interface, yes ;)
<carlos> yes, I will need them
<spiv> Yep, then do it.
<carlos> will it give any problem with the interface tests?
<spiv> Nope.
<carlos> perfect, thanks
<spiv> The interface tests look at the object, rather than trying to read the source code directly :)
<carlos> makes sense :-)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Make the librarian optional for gina (patch-681)
* Kinnison discovers that he can't work out how to get from a distroarchrelease to the architecture name as used by dpkg/apt-ftparchive/etc
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: SourcePackage bugs counter. (patch-682)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Merge lalo's zopeless transactions work and other changes needed for importd (patch-683)
<cprov> Kinnison: morning, can you give me a briefly explanation about "optional librarian dependency on gina" ? How to proceed ?
<Kinnison> cprov: theres a line in grabber.py you comment out. the attachLibrarian() call
<Kinnison> cprov: then the changes I made in classes.py should notice when the librarian isn't in use and not try and create the entries in the file tables
<cprov> Kinnison: I'll try in that way, tks 
<Kinnison> cprov: You're welcome
<Kinnison> cprov: If you can patch the rest of gina to get her able to import again; that'd be doubly fantastic
<cprov> Kinnison: it is working now, but I need to comment out some lines in classes.py (getLibraryAlias)
<cprov> Kinnison: do you think we can have a FLAG (!!!) ?
<stub> We really want a stub Librarian for a real fix
<cprov> stub: sorry, what do you mean with "stub librarian" ? 
<stub> Something that fakes the API we use to communicate with the Librarian which we can use for development etc. 
<SteveA> it is an animated stu to help you find your files -- our answer to "clippy"
<stub> But I might be solving a different problem :-)
<debonzi> hi stub... the page malone/sourcepackage/mozilla-firefox-dummy/ seems to be broken for me.. do you know about it?
<Kinnison> cprov: You could if you wanted. I was just going on the 'if librarian is None:' bit in getLibraryAlias in library.py
<cprov> Kinnison: I see :)
<stub> debonzi: Ta. I think Malone is obviously lacking on the page tests, which I should get onto tomorrow :-)
<stub> SteveA: Bad Steve!
<SteveA> it's almost like being a move star!
<debonzi> stub, right.. just to check because I'm linking sourcepackage for its bugs and I saw it.. thanks :)
<stud> debonzi: The URL is currently configured to be malone/package/mozilla-firefox-dummy, but the URL's being generated don't point to that. I'm not sure which is supposed to be correct atm (was the missing 'source' a typo in malone/configure.zcml, or did it get changed but the templates not modified?)
* Kinnison -> Lunch
<stud> Of course, neither is probably correct as Soyuz appears to be using 'src' :-(
<debonzi> stud, You are right.. but I saw it working friday with sourcepackage.. 
<debonzi> stud, maybe it was a proposital modification
<stud> Nope - my dictionary doesn't know that word either :-)
<debonzi> stud, AFAICS mark was the last one to play with  malone/configure.zcml
<debonzi> stud, ops.. sorry :)
<debonzi> s/proposital/intentional
<stud> I suspect he wants the URL changed because hitting '6x' in vim at the right time is a rather improbable typo
<stud> I'm just wondering if we should consider rationalizing the URL naming with soyuz (use src) since it is currently broken anyway before the dependancies start creeping in again.
<stud> Or maybe we have more important things to worry about :)
<debonzi> stud, yes probably so :)
* stud goes and fixes the broken package search screen
* debonzi wishs stub a happy hacking
<stud> If I can find which template it is in that haystack :-(
<sabdfl> Kinnison: i think that was "architecturetag" or something similar... check the soyuz.dia which will be out of date but should have that details
<sabdfl> stud: yes, was me that changed the url to "malone/package/", sorry if i didn't catch it everywhere
<sabdfl> my rationale for that one is that we *only* track assignment to *source*package so the source is redundant
<stud> sabdfl: Only the one spot once that I have found
<Kinnison> sabdfl: If architecturetag was meant to be for that; then that is broken too
<sabdfl> in soyuz, we need the distinction between sourcepackage and binarypackage much more
<Kinnison> sabdfl: What with the test-data having 'warty--x86--devel--0'
<stud> sabdfl: We need some consistency and structure in the launchpad/templates directory but I have no idea what it is supposed to look like btw. I don't know if we can mimic the URL space in a directory structure or not.
<sabdfl> Kinnison: i think that was a flying guess from someone that went off in the wrong direction :-)
<cprov> sabdfl: me ??
<sabdfl> stud: agreed
<Kinnison> sabdfl: 'stud' again?
<sabdfl> cprov: maybe, no big deal
* Kinnison tuts sabdfl 
<sabdfl> stub's been working out again, hey stud
<sabdfl> stud: quick update on the add/edit for situation
<Kinnison> sabdfl: Should I put an UPDATE statement in my SQL patch which is pending then, to update the test-data ?
<cprov> Kinnison: isn't it repaired in sampledata, yet ? if not, please replace it with 'i386' or something simple like that ...
<sabdfl> Kinnison: probably easier to follow the normal process for test data: (a) build clean db, (b) make the changes, (c) cd database/schema; make newsampledata
<stud> Kinnison: Yes please.
<sabdfl> then check it out, if happy copy the newsampledata.sql it created over current.sql
<sabdfl> stud: is that right?
<Kinnison> glerp
<stud> sabdfl: The sample data needs to be updated at the same time the database patch is move to the 'live' area, so generally I need to run the updates and generate the sample data
<cprov> Kinnison: AFAIKS, current current.sql contains the right archtagrelease 'i386'
<Kinnison> cprov: aah yes it does
* Kinnison spanks hisself for being too dumb to spot that
<Kinnison> you're a star
<stud> (Assuming the sample data changes relate to the schema mods...)
<Kinnison> Okay, I'll go back to sleep now :-)
<sabdfl> stud: i don't think this is a structural change
<Kinnison> (Well; actually I'll update my test db and carry on)
<sabdfl> just that there's a bad bit of data: 'i386' is 'warty-x86--devel--0' or something
<stud> sabdfl: oic. i just read pending patch :-)
<sabdfl> stud: so, about the add/edit forms
<sabdfl> i'm creating launchpad-addofmr and launchpad-editform
<sabdfl> based on your default-addform and default-editform
<sabdfl> but with a few tweaks
<sabdfl> morning BradB!
<BradB> hi :)
<Kinnison> stud: speaking of pending patches; I'm *almost* ready for you to merge my pending patch :-)
<Kinnison> stud: Just got another two views to finalise :-)
<stud> sabdfl: Which were a hacked up version of the Z3 default ones. It might get a bit 'icky in there -- if anything about the form machinery is badly documented it is customizing the templates. This is somewhere we might find we need to fix stuff and feed changes back into Z3.
<sabdfl> stud: ok, so here's what i'm heading towards
<BradB> elmo: why does launchpad.ubuntu.com say "Nothing to see here" instead of showing the devel version of launchpad?
<sabdfl> for each add or edit form, we will create a very small template
<sabdfl> this template will just really host things that are unique to that specific form
<sabdfl> but it does allow us to customise, say, the decoration around the form
<sabdfl> and put a paragraph at the top, etc
<sabdfl> it in turn uses launchpad-addform or launchpad-editform which is what holds the general form structure that is common across launchpad
<sabdfl> and that in turn uses launchpad-widget-macros.pt which defines the layout of a given widget's decoration
<sabdfl> bug-addform is basically correct already
<sabdfl> i'll keep tweaking it today
<stud> That sounds good. Most of them will just be boilerplate, and any structural changes to widget layout can still be made in one place
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> one place to affect the way widgets are decorated (name, description, required or not, and the widget itself)
<sabdfl> one place to govern the general form layout (title position, top paragraph, closing paragraph, and buttons)
<sabdfl> and then each actual form gets to tweak the content of title and description etc
<elmo> BradB: https, not http
<BradB> ah
<BradB> thanks
* Kinnison heads home so he can work from his desk once more
<Kinnison> see you all later
<dilys> Bug 2134 resolved: Create and migrate the user languages preferences to a table PersonLanguage
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2134
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fix sourcepackage link broken due to renaming (patch-684)
<carlos> When did we moved from launchapd_test to launchpad_dev?
<carlos> I did not saw any mail announcing the change, only a thread talking about it and it was not using launchpad_dev but launchpad_devel
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Moved from Schema/Label to its own table to store the Person's languages (Closes: #2134) (patch-685)
<sabdfl> carlos: what does the PersonLanguage table look like?
<carlos> sabdfl: id, person, language
<carlos> in the future it could be updated to store the knowledge level
<carlos> as Daf suggested in the thread
<sabdfl> UNIQUE (person, language) ?
<sabdfl> hey morgs
<carlos> yes
<morgs> hey mark
<carlos> CREATE TABLE PersonLanguage (
<carlos>      id serial CONSTRAINT personlanguage_pkey PRIMARY KEY,
<carlos>      person integer NOT NULL
<carlos>         CONSTRAINT personlanguage_person_fk REFERENCES Person(id),
<carlos>      language integer NOT NULL
<carlos>         CONSTRAINT personlanguage_language_fk REFERENCES Language(id),
<carlos>      CONSTRAINT personlanguage_person_key UNIQUE (person, language)
<carlos> );
<morgs> I'm trying RocketFuelSetup, but I think I'm missing a tla register-archive line...
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: SourcePackage and BinaryPackage bugs counter links to malone. (patch-686)
<sabdfl> morgs: what error are you seeing?
<kiko> elmo, are you around?
<morgs> sabdfl: this command line: $ tla tag -S rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0 morgan.collett@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0
<morgs> sabdfl: this error: archive not registered: morgan.collett@canonical.com  (see register-archive)
<kiko> elmo, cprov and I want to get some "Gina-setup" information going -- even if just a README -- so people that want to install/run it can actually do so without melting their eyes out
<sabdfl> morgs: did you do this step:
<sabdfl> # create your own archive tla make-archive --signed $myarchive ~/archives/$myarchive  # mirror your own archive onto chinstrap, where PQM and others can easily find it tla make-archive --signed --mirror $myarchive sftp://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/home/warthogs/archives/$myarchive  # register the canonical rocketfuel archive tla register-archive sftp://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel@canonical.com
<cprov> kiko: it should be more than a README anyway, essentially gina/nicole/etc are not target to end-users
<sabdfl> about 1/3rd down the page
<kiko> cprov, well, a README is a good start, just a basic list of steps to run. the main problem with gina is the debian archive mirror..
<morgs> sabdfl: might have missed that step, I'll just check back and see.
<cprov> kiko: keyrings, katieDB and so on ...
<kiko> those are easy to solve
<kiko> well katiedb less so
<kiko> but the archive mirror is the bitch
<morgs> sabdfl: I missed the first line: tla make-archive --signed $myarchive ~/archives/$myarchive
<morgs> sabdfl: now it works...
<kiko> yeah, if you don't have an archive it gets really complicated. :)
<sabdfl> yeah that would  be the critical one :-)
<morgs> lots of "Good Signatures" now :-)
<sabdfl> morgs: go make some coffee
<sabdfl> it will take a few minutes to fetch all of our changes
<sabdfl> stud: do you have a handy python implementation of the contraints on a "name" field?
<stud> database/schema/trusted.sql
<stud> sabdfl: Just need to change the \' to ' and \\ to \
<kiko> stub the stud?
<stud> sabdfl: or lib/canonical/launchpad/validators/name.py has it (but don't rely on that staying there - it is an experiment I havn't done much on yet)
<stud> kiko: Hit the nail on the head
<sabdfl> stud: i'm going to use the python one, pagetests should break if you move it :-)
<kiko> oy
<stud> sabdfl: ok. 
<carlos> stud: I'm getting an error with the doctests:
<carlos> DocTestTestFailure: Failed doctest test for canonical.database.sqlbase.ZopelessT ransactionManager
<carlos>   File "/home/carlos/Work/dists/launchpad/lib/canonical/database/sqlbase.py", li ne 181 (or above), in ZopelessTransactionManager
<carlos> because it's trying to connect to launchpad_devel
<sabdfl> stud: name = args[0] 
<sabdfl> wtf is args?
<carlos> and that database does not exists anymore
<carlos> is it safe if I fix ti pointing to _dev ?
<stud> sabdfl: Change that so it works for you - like I said, it is an experiment. args is the arguments that an embedded plpythonu function gets given :-)
<sabdfl> ah. do you depend on the one there at all?
<stud> carlos: That is weird, because I have never had a launchpad_devel database on my box, ever. launchpad_dev is the current correct name which changed on Friday and I helpfully neglected to tell anyone about on the mailing list
<carlos> stud: sorry, launchpad_test
<stud> sabdfl: No - it was just somewhere I was playing in.
<sabdfl> stud: ok, it's going to be used now :-)
<carlos> stud: I noticed it after several dabatase reloads today to change the sample data :-)
<stud> carlos: Any launchpad_test's need to be fixed to refer to canonical.lp.dbname and canonical.lp.dbhost, or preferably just use canonical.lp.initZopeless
<sabdfl> SteveA: how's the wikiwikiBANGBANG coming along?
<BradB> Is there any way to see what gpg commands tla changes runs?
<SteveA> it's okay.  I'll be firing a bunch of pages into ubuntulinux.org soon
<BradB> i.e. I want a -v for tla changes that's really verbose.
<stud> carlos: I don't have that in my copy on sqlbase.py btw.
<spiv> BradB: Isn't that what ~/.arch-params/signing/* specifies?
<spiv> (or just use strace ;)
<carlos> stud: it's inside the doctest
<carlos> Quick & dirty doctest:
<carlos>     >>> ztm = ZopelessTransactionManager('postgres:///launchpad_test')
<spiv> carlos: Oh!
<carlos> class ZopelessTransactionManager(object):
<spiv> That's my bad.
* spiv fixes
<stud> BradB: Hack your script in the signing directory to output stuff to /tmp
<carlos> ok
<carlos> spiv: thanks
<spiv> It passed the PQM, though ;)
<carlos> spiv: I think it's normal, we still have some tests failing 
<stud> spiv: Hmm... there is probably still a launchpad_test database on chinstrap that needs removing :-(
* carlos was trying to fix some of them because he broke also someones...
<BradB> It'd be nice if -v would tell me these things.
<spiv> carlos: Well, PQM rejected other merges until I made the tests pass...
<carlos> which command should be executed to run all tests?
<stud> BradB: Yup, although difficult to implement because the signing is done by a script rather than driving gpg. I think this is the real problem (I bet we have half a dozen different signing scripts on the team, half of them subtly broken).
<carlos> I'm using at this moment python test.py -u canonical from the main directory
<stud> carlos: make test, or make check
<carlos> (to run only unittest)
<carlos> ok
<stud> carlos: But I use python test.py too because it is easier to control
<carlos> stud: the problem with it is that it does not update the tests created automatically from daf's script to test the interfaces
<stud> carlos: Oh - I wasn't aware of that. It could be updated to do so (I think our test.py is already subtly customized away from the z3 one).
<stud> Where can I find the auto generated tests?
<carlos> inside rosetta/tests
<carlos> but you are free to move it outside Rosetta
<carlos> it's inside daf's todo list
<carlos> the script to generate them is:
<carlos> generate_sql_tests.py
<carlos> from launchpad/lib/canonical/rosetta/scripts
* carlos leaves to the university.
<carlos> see you later!
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Remove hard-coded dbname from doctest (patch-687)
<daf> mornin'
* morgs goes to make supper while rocketfuel continues patching
<BradB> http://paste.husk.org/1863 # why is tla telling me it's an invalid sig?
<BradB> I've copied my stuff from my other PB to this one, and I'm fairly sure I've taken everything I've needed, relative to tla.
<BradB> gah, n/m, i think i know why
<ddaa> tell me, please
<BradB> i don't have a program named tla-gpg-check on this machine. i'm not yet sure why this is, but I would have been able to find this in 1h, 29m, and 58s sooner if tla told me "tla-gpg-check: command not found"
<ddaa> mh... that program is included in the .deb, but not in tla's source distribution iirc.
<ddaa> Man... tla's signature checking ui is totally insane.
<daf> BradB: http://wiki.canonical.com/ArchGripes, or file a bug at https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=Arch
<BradB> daf: I will definitely do that before I go for lunch. :)
<BradB> *def* *in* *it* *lee*
<daf> groovy :)
* BradB does that now, in fact
<ddaa> well, maybe it is in the distribution...
<BradB> ddaa: nope, the bug is in tla.
<BradB> ddaa: The error was "tla-gpg-check: command not found" but instead tla told me that the signature was invalid.
<ddaa> but I remember having the same problem. A basic tla install from source won't install the script.
<BradB> I installed it from darwinports
<BradB> But, no matter, the problem is the same.
<ddaa> BradB: yeah. That would be a correct bug report.
<BradB> oxygen:~/launchpad/lp bradb$ tla changes
<BradB> gpg: Good signature from "Brad Bollenbach <bradb@bbnet.ca>"
<BradB> * looking for brad.bollenbach@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0--patch-59 to compare with
<BradB> corrupt library (failed inode signature validation)
<BradB> looks like another bug (i.e. not being able to copy from one machine to another)
<ddaa> BradB: that one is a feature of revision libraries
<ddaa> Revisions libraries are not meant to be copied around.
<BradB> how is it a feature that when i copy my working dir and rev-libs from my powerbook g4 to my powerbook g4 that it breaks?
<ddaa> It will break the inode signatures which are used to detect corruption.
<BradB> ...and cause corruption :)
<ddaa> It's not actually causing corruption in any harmful way.
<BradB> there are other ways to detect corruption surely
<ddaa> A revision library 
<ddaa> is a cache, and a cache is something that you should share, should you?
<ddaa> *should not share
<ddaa> BradB: inode sigs is the most efficient way.
<BradB> it's a revision library, and yes. :)
<BradB> i shouldn't share my safari cache, but i should be able to share a revision library.
<ddaa> I'm pretty sure that if tla ran md5sums on all files of a tree of the revlib before using it, we would get many more complaints about performance...
<ddaa> BradB: if you can come up with a way to provide copyable revlibs that have similar performance to the current revlibs, we would all be very interested.
<ddaa> And something that is not massively complex, of course.
<BradB> ddaa: if you can come up for the time for me to do that, i'd be very interested. ;) i'm just trying to write code.
<ddaa> BradB: seriously, you cannot copy revlibs and that's a feature. And I believe that's actually a sane feature.
<ddaa> There might be other forms of cache which could be copyable, but not revlibs.
<daf> ddaa: I don't think an inability to copy is a feature: speed is a feature, and the method used to gain speed precludes copyability
<BradB> ddaa: So, I want to write some code. I've copied over (what I think are) all the relevant files from my other powerbook to this one. Then I moved aside all my old rev-libs (because, due to the thousands (?) of small files a sparse, greedy revlib creates, rm -rf'ing takes hours. Literally.) Then I wanted to find out what I've changed. Now I get this: http://paste.husk.org/1864. Why doesn't it just list the files I've changed since
<BradB>  my last commit?
<BradB> daf: Exactly. :)
<daf> BradB: those look like permissions changes
<ddaa> -- is "permission change on file" and -/ is "permission change on directory"
<ddaa> Your copying was a bit sloppy...
<daf> BradB: how did you do the copy?
<BradB> ddaa: How was my copying sloppy? I've had to recreate the revlibs.
<BradB> Because of the inode sigs.
<daf> this isn't a revlib problem
<daf> it's something to do with how you copied the code over
<BradB> Isn't that what it's comparing to?
<ddaa> Your copied tree does not have the permission bits set the same as the original tree.
<ddaa> And that shows in the changes.
<BradB> To copy I just tarball'd up my old working dir (which took easily over an hour), scp'd it down then untarred it, which also took easily over an hour, heh.
<ddaa> The simplest way to fix the things would be to generate a patch for your changes, "tla changes --diffs" should do it, undo your tree to reset the permissions, and apply the patch. Alternatively, I believe fai has some features to apply only parts of a chargeset (e.g. everything but the permission changes).
<ddaa> Since you only have content changes, and no inventory changes, the patch approach works well.
<ddaa> You can also investigate what options of tar can be used to preserve permissions.
<ddaa> Maybe there should be an option in arch to disable the versioning of all permission bits except an executable bit. Versioning all permission  bits is not useful in the common case.
<ddaa> BradB: I'm sorry that it takes so much time to do anything i/o intensive on your machine. You should really buy some more RAM.
<BradB> ddaa: heh, I've got a 1.5 GHz, 512 MB RAM. :)
<ddaa> Last time I heard about it it was 128MB...
<BradB> ddaa: notice how i keep referring to how i'm transferring everything over to my new powerbook :)
<BradB> but it was never 128
* ddaa refrains from making unhelpful comments about using a "real" operating system...
<BradB> (though, if i need more than 128 MB RAM to run an RCS, there's a bug in the RCS.)
<ddaa> I agree that there are issues. jblack should do some more profiling on what are the specific bottlenecks in star-merge so we can take a decision.
<ddaa> It's probably related to the way patchlogs are represented.
<BradB> The speed has greatly improved with the new hardware/OS X upgrade, but the architecture of a bunch of small files is always going to be a major bottleneck, I think.
<ddaa> Good to hear that you got a setup where you can actually do some work...
<ddaa> It's not a major bottleneck here. But tla is one of the reasons why I am using reiserfs...
<ddaa> The performance should not be that much dependent on the performance of the filesystem.
<daf> BradB: untarring took over an hour?
<daf> duude!
<BradB> rm -rf'ing the reflibs wasn't even close to being done after 1h 20m
<BradB> i hadn't done any exact profiling of the situation though. 1h 20m and still rm rf'in is pretty discouraging.
* ddaa thanks daf for pointing out that something is obviously wrong with BradB's setup.
<BradB> ddaa: Nope, tla/arch was the first time I've seen such a preformance problem.
<ddaa> It's not tla, it's tar you are talking about.
<daf> BradB: you could have moved them out of the way and deleted them in the background
<BradB> ddaa: It's thousands of small files I'm talking about.
<BradB> That much disk throughput is always going to be a bottleneck.
<BradB> daf: I did :)
<ddaa> BradB: It would not be taking near that much time on anybody's else machine.
<BradB> ddaa: Relatively speaking, surely no, HFS+ is crap. But it's always going to be much slower to work with dir hiearchies full of thousands of small files.
<daf> BradB: ah, ok
<daf> BradB: it was an hour in parallel rather than in serial -- that's not so bad
<ddaa> BradB: We are very concerned by your performance problems... but still it looks like tla is not the only software at fault.
* ddaa has to leave for dinner
<BradB> ddaa: I would argue that it definitely is, but then, I don't have time to put into arch development (I just want to write code), so I'm just bikeshedding.
<daf> I don't think this qualifies as bikeshedding
<BradB> sabdfl: The changes to the Malone interface look amazing, but where do I go to modify a bug product assignment?
<dilys> New bug 2136 for Launchpad/Rosetta: Translation of new pofiles is broken since the table split
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2136
<ddaa> daf: I heard that you had some evidence that the buildbot hangs are caused by pyarch.
<daf> :D
<daf> where did you hear that?
<ddaa> I believe that's what lifeless told me.
<daf> I believe you are mistaken
<lifeless> ddaa: 'spiv'. dude 'spiv'/
<ddaa> Or maybe it's what I believe lifeless told me spiv told him.
<lifeless> spiv is not daf. daf is not spiv.
<lifeless> daf, please ignore the frenchman.
<lifeless> s/ignore/forgive/
<ddaa> lifeless: your gratuitous bashing of the french is sometimes slightly annoying.
<ddaa> lifeless: btw, while you are here...
<lifeless> ddaa: I'm sorry, bad habit I picked up from a colleague.
<ddaa> I have not tested the new taxi yet.
<ddaa> I'm not in a configuration which lends itself very well to it atm.
<spiv> ddaa: Hello.
<ddaa> I have found that w3c-libwww is using a backup~ file at a point. What's the proper way to handle those cases?
<ddaa> spiv: hello
<lifeless> ddaa: ah, I was just about to commit a fix for a related issue.
<lifeless> let me do that.
<ddaa> I'm going to bed very soon, but I would be glad if you could mail me a message with the debugging technique you used and your findings.
<lifeless> oh, id with no file is a dead giveaway
<spiv> Oh, that reminds me...
<lifeless> I go straight to the tagging method overrides
<ddaa> lifeless: ? yes that's the symptom.
<lifeless> which I was doing per package, but I think its symptomatic, so am just doing in JobStrategy these days
<ddaa> "blah/.arch-ids/yadda~.id has not associated file"
<lifeless> yeah, that means 'the default taggging rules blow chunks'
<ddaa> imho, that tends to means "cvs let you commit any stupid crap"
<ddaa> Note that the twos are not mutually exclusive in the context of cscvs.
<lifeless> it does, and our job is to represent CVS in tla.
<ddaa> *the two
<lifeless> arch is revision control. tagging methods are policy.
<ddaa> (23:31:47) lifeless: yeah, that means 'the default taggging rules blow chunks'
<ddaa> I must have misunderstood what you mean.
<ddaa> Whatever...
<lifeless> the former is a must, the latter frustrates folk that haven't bought into it.
<ddaa> spiv: still reminding?
<lifeless> spiv: here
<spiv> ddaa: Sending mail now :)
<ddaa> lifeless: I'm not resolving your "former" and "later" references.
<lifeless> rev ctl & policy
<ddaa> But my brain is on emergency power atm...
<ddaa> the workrave cvstarfile download fails 4 out of 5 times...
<ddaa> Mh... finished sync of w3m (import from cvstarfile)... still nothing new... that's becoming a bit disturbing.
* ddaa kicks workrave once more
* ddaa kicks workrave again
<ddaa> and again
<ddaa> midnight... kick it once more and -> bed
#launchpad 2004-11-06
<ddaa> bah, spewer only logs what happens in the main thread...
<spiv> ddaa: see my email...
<ddaa> all the interesting stuff in buildbot happens in the extra threads.
<ddaa> spiv: yes, that's your mail I'm referring to.
<ddaa> Maybe the syncqueue should not be blocking though...
<spiv> Unfortunately, it doesn't log non-main threads.  You can hack this in
<spiv> yourself by putting these lines at the top of
<spiv> twisted.python.threadpool.ThreadPool._worker:
<spiv> ...
<spiv> From my email :)
<ddaa> Ha sorry... really need to go bed...
<spiv> :)
<spiv> Do that :)
<spiv> It'll save time in the long run, I suspect :)
<ddaa> lol... yeah... makes sense... I'll file a bug about that ;-)
* spiv boggles at the latest daily wtf.
<dilys> New bug 2137 for Launchpad/Rosetta: Add sample data for Recently Translated Projects
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2137
* ddaa recalls he completely forgot the .close method that is needed for the blocking queue to make sense
* ddaa larts ddaa
* ddaa will discuss the issues involved tomorrow
<spiv> Good night :)
<ddaa> lifeless: just try making the queue puts unblocking in arch._twisted.ProcessProtocol
<ddaa> hu... does not make sense... the queue size is unlimited anyway
<ddaa> please disregard.
* ddaa implements the ShutUpAndSleep strategy
<sabdfl> spiv: howdy
<sabdfl> any progress on the bug that's holding back the arch team?
<lifeless> spiv committed is last night
<lifeless> so in theory we are not held back, I plan to verify that today, amongst other juggles.
<sabdfl> lifeless: what was the bug?
<lifeless> the details I'm not sure - but there were bits in launchpad, sqlos & buildbot that all fitted together.
<sabdfl> how do i regenerate the allowed-tags file?
<BradB> "does -> lib/sqlobject" mean the modification time was changed? and where to i find what all those change symbols mean?
<BradB> s/"does /does "/
<lifeless> BradB: can you copy the line literally ?
<BradB> i did
<lifeless> I'm a little confused on what it was :|
<BradB> the quoted part above: "-> lib/sqlobject"
<lifeless> window goto #ubuntu
<kiko_> hey lunch people
<kiko_> justdave, ping?
<lifeless> BradB: there isn't a '-> changeset detail
<BradB> lifeless: heh heh
<lifeless> BradB: there is 'M->' and 'C->'...
<kiko_> who's our database admin apart from dave?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: add docs for new add/edit form buffing (patch-688)
<BradB> lifeless: http://paste.husk.org/1865
<lifeless> ah, changes, not apply-changeset.
<lifeless> thats a modified symlink
<BradB> yeah, so in other words it means the modification time was changed, right?
<BradB> it's pointing to the same dir
<lifeless> no, the target
<lifeless> tla changes --diffs should show you change
<dilys> Bug 2095 resolved: Use Sourcepackage() instead of SoyuzSourcepackage()
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2095
<sabdfl> dilys: you rock!
<sabdfl> need to teach the bitch to show some gratitude for the praise
<dilys> New bug 2139 for Launchpad/Rosetta: Rosetta link (portlet?) for Soyuz Source Package index
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2139
<sabdfl> BradB: i'm getting a bad response from https://mawson...
<sabdfl> should it be up?
<sabdfl> i' keen to walk mdz through malone
<dilys> New bug 2140 for Launchpad/Soyuz: Implement build log summary page
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2140
<BradB> sabdfl: https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/
<sabdfl> rock
<sabdfl> bradb thanks!
<BradB> no prob :)
<sabdfl> cprov, elmo, can we get an archive on mawson for gina loving into that db?
<sabdfl> BradB: is that launchpad-dev on that pgsql?
<sabdfl> cprov, elmo, this db will also need to be backed up daily, it's our dogfood db
<sabdfl> or is it laucnhpad-dogfood?
<sabdfl> either way, need a run of gine and nicole against that db, and against hoary as it opens up
<BradB> launchpad_test
<BradB> because the app isn't setup to properly change DB names
<BradB> (i.e. to have just one place to do so)
<sabdfl> BradB: erk, guess we need that ability asap
<BradB> yep, i've filed the bug already
<sabdfl> otherwise a single make check  would blow away our dogfood db
<BradB> yeah, unfortunately
<sabdfl> hmm... and need to get stub into the mode of daily backup+code+schema updates to launchpad-dogfood too
<sabdfl> because it doesn't have my shiny updates
<BradB> indeed
<BradB> speaking of your shiny updates (slick...slick), where did the edit pba/spba UI go?
<kiko_> sabdfl, can I get an opinion on something?
<sabdfl> kiko_ go ahead
<sabdfl> bradb doh did i break something?
<kiko_> well
<sabdfl> is there a test?
<sabdfl> ah, i think it's still there, we just broke the linking in installing all the eye candy
<kiko_> sabdfl, for a source package page, what's a good way to display or link to build logs? 
<BradB> sabdfl: i think you intentionally removed it..
<kiko_> sabdfl, currently we are planning on a separate page (see bug 2140 reported above) 
<kiko_> sabdfl, but we could just stuff the links inline on that page and live with it
<sabdfl> kiko: maybe have a tab on the sourcepackagerelease page, listing builds of it
<BradB> sabdfl: i guess you wanted to aggregate package/product assignments into one list?
<kiko_> sabdfl, on the source package release, sure, but in the source *package*?
<sabdfl> BradB: sort of
<kiko_> that's more or less a "package maintainer console"
<kiko_> so it would be nice to have one-click access to logs
<sabdfl> for "context-important" ones we'll put them in the headline
<sabdfl> so, say you are in the gentoo distro
<sabdfl> then bug assignments to a gentoo package should be at the top of the bug
<sabdfl> all the others in a portlet
<sabdfl> i'd like to decorate the request object with a LaunchpadContext thingamabob which would assist in those determinations
<BradB> heh, yeah, that'd be useful
<sabdfl> kiko_: seems like it could be a portlet, showing links to the latest builds on all architectures
<sabdfl> night all, i'm packing it in
<BradB> see ya tomorrow
<kiko_> sabdfl, yeah, except it can be a damned long page.
<cprov> sabdfl: I can't create DB on mawson, I already asked elmo but postgres present an strange behavior
<kiko_> elmo!
<dilys> New bug 2141 for Launchpad/Soyuz: Implement Source Package Tracking System
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2141
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: improve tla tagging methods for Xorg and kde (patch-64)
<elmo> cprov: eh, that should be fixed now
<kiko_> elmo, was it just a pgsql-superuser-issue?
<elmo> no
<elmo> AFAICT, it's a postgres doesn't like HT when using NPTL/2.6/something issue
<elmo> the launchpad user has superuser, it's nothing to do with that
<kiko_> interesting.
* BradB catches up a bit on plone-developers, learns about more gaping security holes in zope/plone
<kiko_> BradB, yeah, the GET thingy :)
<kiko_> there's been a rage about this here today
<BradB> the other one, of course, being the thing that stub fixed for us
<BradB> as someone who spends most of his time doing zope/plone consulting work, the propsect of "oh, by the way, almost every zope/plone site out there has at least two well-known and trivial to exploit hacks which could easily turn your site into rubble." is pretty shite
<lifeless> how do I choose the database now ?
<lifeless> (I just updated my local code, so I can check for a new production update)
<BradB> kiko_: sometimes i really think TdR's got it all figured out
<BradB> except that obsd doesn't run on ppc last i checked
<kiko_> BradB, well, I don't think obsd could have prevented plone from being hacked. Plone would never be included in obsd by default, right? :)
<BradB> exactly :)
<BradB> oh my, obsd does run on ppc
* BradB looks into when that was added
* kiko_ wonders if bradb means he wants to go unemployed :)
<lifeless> stud: ping
<stud> lifeless: pong
<BradB> kiko_: yeah, no kidding eh :)
<lifeless> 2 questions
<lifeless> 1) how do a simulate a production database update - do we have that schema magic yet - on my local db.
<lifeless> 2) how to I tall launchpad to use launchpad_test ?
<stud> 1) The update procedure is manual and documented in database/schema/README.txt. There is no automated method, as so far I've been more comfortable with the manual process. The dogfood servers will change this since I believe database schema updates are going to be rolled out a few times a week on all the dogfood databases.
<lifeless> I'm hopinh to do a new production update this week. that cool with you ?
<stud> 2) The two places the database-to-use is configured is hardcoded in lib/canonical/lp/__init__.py and package-includes/launchpad-sql-configure-normal.zcml
<stud> Hmm.... lib/canonical/lp/__init__.py should be pointing to launchpad_dev.... need to fix that and update the test harness to cope...
<lifeless> is that zcml under rev ctl ? i.e. will I break users if I change my one to use _test ?
<stud> lifeless: Sure. Give me the day and time when you have it narrowed down
<lifeless> stud: thinking friday
<stud> lifeless: Yes - it will break others. You can try copying the file to override-incudes/+my-database-confugure-normal.zcml and altering it there.
<stud> That is supposed to work
<stud> (the master .zcml will pick it up if it ends with -configure.zcml or -configure-normal.zcml. Use -configure-normal.zcml in this case so the test harness doesn't use it for functional tests)
<stud> There is a bugzilla bug open discussing simple configuration of this stuff btw. It needs to be easier to configure.
<stud> lifeless: Will the database changes include ddaa's fixes to the dirty data that got into the production database?
<lifeless> stud: that is a script that I'll run separately.
<lifeless> Its not precisely dirty data, but rather duplicate data.
<dilys> New bug 2143 for Launchpad/Soyuz: Add link to bugs for a certain source package release
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2143
<kiko_> maybe I should file some more bugs for kicks
<lifeless> yeah!
<lifeless> any idea on this:
<lifeless> hmm, actually, I'll dig a little more first
<stud> kiko_: I noticed that some of the portlets I dropped on the floor appear to have been picked up and implemented by somebody?
<kiko_> stud, that's debonzi hacking around you ;)
<stud> kiko_: Do you know if I'm still needed for it then, or can I just leave it to Team Brazil?
<kiko_> well, hum hum
<kiko_> stud, leave it open as low-priority, I guess. we still need your guidance and you can steal our code for the portlet later if you like
<kiko_> I've got some other requests
<kiko_> stud, can I discover bugs that only apply to a certain binary package? and binary package release?
<stud> SourcepackageBugAssignment *may* be linked to a BinarypackageName. I can't remember why it was changed from pointing to Binarypackage (hmm... or maybe I never understood...). Does that help you think?
<kiko_> hmmm
<kiko_> how does that relate to BugInfestation? :)
<kiko_> err BugPackageInfestation
<kiko_> BradB, you can come guess too!
<lifeless> stud: override-includes doesn't support -normal.zcml
<lifeless> only configure.zcml
<stud> lifeless: Bah. Fix that if you want - it just needs the love in site.zcml.
<lifeless> heh, bottom of the todo list
<stud> kiko_: I need to sort out my diagramming tools - pita chasing these linkages through in psql :-P
<lifeless> love the infestation name
<lifeless> ooh ohh ohh, lunchtime
<kiko_> stud, it scares me. I understand zilch of the malone-related tables
<stud> BugInfestation -> CodeRelease -> SourcepackageRelease (or ProductRelease if you rather)
<kiko_> what about BugPackageInfestation?
<stud> Hmm... I suspect BugInfestation is a decoy, it having been split into BugPackageInfestation and BugProductInfestation
* stud goes and checks his email archive
<kiko_> a red herring? why is it still there?
<kiko_> hmmm
<stud> Yes - buginfestation was supposed to have been dropped. I must have left it out of the patch.
<stud> So you have bugpackageinfestation and sourcepackagebugassignment
<stud> (love that consistent naming!)
<kiko_> it's not meant to be confusing, it just turned out that way <tm>
<lifeless> oh crap, forgotten the test user.
<lifeless> foo.bar@canonical.com ? pw testing ?
<kiko_> I can never remember myself
* stud hasn't actually used it
<BradB> sabdfl: likes the bug prefix
<BradB> lifeless: p/w test
<BradB> the buginfestation table might have been my fault. ISTR adding a table that was just for statuses, not yet knowing about the dbobjects vocabs.
<BradB> last i spoke to sabdfl about it (in london) we were dropping the idea of a code release too, but that might not be doable
<stud> BradB: I got a patch from you on the buginfestation stuff, and the first line was 'drop table buginfestation'.
<BradB> woo, yay me!
<BradB> :P
<stud> I think  I missed it when I put it into a database schema patch
<kiko_> agh
<kiko_> sl1p!
<lifeless> hmmm
<lifeless> where is  NotFoundError: (<SourceSource at 0x417d5eac>, u'linkTransparent.gif')
<lifeless> ?
<stud> Looks like someone used a relative URL that doesn't exist - it would be on the page you are trying to view?
* lifeless doesn't know
<lifeless> its triggered by the sourcesource-index
<stud> Is there an <img src="linkTransparent.gif"> there? If not, it would be in one of the files included from there (such as the standard templates... whoops...)
<lifeless> not in the template itself
<stud> Looks like the evil is in plone.css
<lifeless> do I need to file a bug report ?
* lifeless hopes not
* stud does a more thorough grep
<stud> Hmm... yeah. If it is plone.css, then it is a deeper problem because it looks it is referencing ++resource++linkTransparent.gif
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: added more edit notifications and fixed so that bugs can be added again (patch-689)
* jblack smacks himself upside the head.
<jblack> lifeless: I just figured out why adding revisions to the library is so slow.
<jblack> for launchpad related things.
<lifeless> oh?
<jblack> part of it.
<jblack> One part is searching for an ancestor revision takes about 1 second per revision to search the library.
<lifeless> omg, no way!
<jblack> hush. I'm getting to a point.
<jblack> It also looks like that while your'e searching for an ancestor revision in the library, there's calls being made via sftp
<jblack> why would I be making sftp calls while searching for an ancestor revision ? 
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: update importd (sourcesource) ui to be fully functional again (patch-690)
<jblack> oh. I bet I know what its doing.
<lifeless> jblack: checking for missing revisions ?
<jblack> Yup.
<jblack> but I definitely found a problem with patchlogs.
<jblack> stating 2000 patchlogs doesn't sound like much.
<jblack> but you have to do it for every revision.
<jblack> For if you have to build 100 revisions, that's 200,000 lstat64s right there.
<lifeless> gotta have it in scale though
<lifeless> there's also 100* stats of the sources.
<lifeless> anyway, abently has addressed this in the backbuilder.
<lifeless> it doesn't re-inventory as it goes.
<jblack> I don't understand why we're not just statting the appropriate dir in the revision library, and seeing what the latest stored revision is.
<jblack> and then just start building from there.
<jblack> never mind.
<lifeless> we only stat the latest revision :)
<jblack> not true.
<jblack> We're doing the equivilant of stat of pfs, because we're downloading every single checksum file in between what we've got and current in order to find cached revisions. 
<lifeless> again, the backbuilder has improvements for this.
<lifeless> I mean - its good to know that its a fairly stock tuning problem for tla.
<lifeless> and I think this should be one of the early targets for canonical arch.
<stud> I've thrown together a strawman interface spec for a better-imho-cli for tla/tla-ng. You want it on a wiki or emailed somewhere?
<jblack> Lets try email first.
<stud> launchpad@ or private?
<jblack> I'm not on launchpad, actually, so I guess private
<jblack> Ok. here we go. In order to add stuart.bishop@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0--patch-332 to my library, it took 2,392,551 lstat64s of which 1,661,899 were for patch logs.
<jblack> :)
<stud> Cool - I never knew I was that productive!
<jblack> lifeless: By removing all but the first 25 patchlogs from each version, I cut star-merge from just over one minute to ten seconds.
<jblack> oh. never mind. empty delta
<lifeless> stud: wiki - link from CanonicalArch page please
<jblack> stud: Did you see the new tla help in 1.2.3rc1 ? 
<stud> Nope - I'm just using the warty default atm
<jblack> The help is broken down into functional categories.
<jblack> each section is very short, and includes subjects such as "using arch for the first time" 
<lifeless> jblack: thats fine, it simply demonstrates the quantitive amelioration thing
<stud> I heard about that - seems like an improvement. My attempt is to just remove most of the tla commands that are unnecessary for my personal use cases :-)
<lifeless> I'd much rather address it qualitatively.
<lifeless> which abentlies work goes a long way to doing
<jblack> I don't see how the backbuilder helps that much. Many (most?) of the archives I've seen don't have cached revisions at all.
<lifeless> the backbuilder has a bunch of other changes supporting it
<jblack> any reason they can't be broken up? 
<lifeless> none at all
<lifeless> do you see my point though? trimming our logs is -at most- a breathing room thing, not a solution
<lifeless> which is why I'm not interested in pursueing it.
<jblack> ok
<lifeless> because, it forcing people to think about the mechanics.
<lifeless> and that is the whole thing we want to avoid *except when its useful*
<jblack> Ok then. MOving on to other jobs.
<jblack> Jivera plans to take up to a week to merge about 5% of the 1.2.2rc3 and 1.2.3rc1 patches.
<jblack> He's only taking the most vital ones at this time.
<jblack> so what do you want to do with thelove? 
<lifeless> what we planned yesterday
<lifeless> I'll be tagging shortly
<lifeless> and then we'll put in anything we think is an improvement
<lifeless> start with the profile enabling patch please. just in a public branch, tagged from gnu-arch--2004
<jblack> Ok boss.
<lifeless> stud: you can do better than asasad :)
<stud> My personal protest against mandatory comments ;)
<SteveA> perhaps it refers to an unhappy mozilla qa person
<lifeless> stud: so, have you heard of sealed branches ?
<stud> vaguely
<lifeless> they are hidden by default in rbrowse.
<lifeless> the branch thing you mention, is directly a corollary of storing changesets rather than tree-snapshots.
<lifeless> that, and the code organisation namespace being disjoint from the code storage namespace
<lifeless> we can layer ui glue there trivially, but I'd like you to propose some use cases in that Gripe, so that we make useful decisions for you
<stud> Yup. So sealing is a partial solution.
<stud> The use case depends on being able to look at a snapshot-in-time of the whole archive, which I suspect is not possible?
<lifeless> stud: its pretty meaningless, to be honest.
<lifeless> we can certainly calculate what was present in july 4 2003, and only show those branches & changesets.
<lifeless> but snapshot-in-time isn't the english-use case.
<lifeless> by use case I mean something like 'I want tla to show me the branches of my project that existed at Jul 4 2004.
<lifeless> and 'I need a means to tell tla that a branch should be considered deleted - that is, that query tools won't show it by default, and that queries for 'now' for the branches will not show it'
<stud> Yes - I'm thinking about the Zope development methadology, where every small change is done in a branch, tests run, and merged into the trunk. I'm wondering if sealing is a good enough solution to that (although it might have trouble if the same branch name is used in the future, eg. 'unicode-fix' branch might be created and sealed several times in a project lifetime)
<lifeless> stud: honestly, I think we use more branches than zope would... and we do many branches. And so far, at least for me, its not been an issue at all.
<lifeless> don't think about implementation. Just think about the use case.
<limi> morning, y'all
<stub> yo
<Kinnison> Morning
<stub> lifeless: ok. I think the concept of 'sealing' the version actually suits the use case better (branching from trunk to do a small fix, then merging the changes from that branch back into the trunk and several 'release' branches')
<sabdfl> morning all
<sabdfl> stub: around?
<stub> yu
<stub> p
<sabdfl> kiko: infestations are what track a bug relative to a specific release
<sabdfl> lifeless: did you solve this:05:23:40) lifeless: where is  NotFoundError: (<SourceSource at 0x417d5eac>, u'linkTransparent.gif')
<sabdfl> looks like you need a resource for the image file
<lifeless> sabdfl: not solved, I've no idea whats causing it - my template doesn't have a linkTransparent.gif reference.
<limi> lifeless: probably in the CSS
* limi will have a look
<limi> this is in Launchpad, right?
<lifeless> yep
* limi grabs his mail and CSS and heads for the train
<limi> back in a bit :)
<sabdfl> lifeless: it's easy to fix
<sabdfl> lifeless: put the following in your zcml file:
<sabdfl>     <browser:resource
<sabdfl>         name="linkTransparent.gif" file="../launchpad/images/linkTransparent.gif" />
<lifeless> which zcml file (I haven't created any)
<sabdfl> of course make the path correct relative to that zcml file
<sabdfl> stevea around for a catch up?
<sabdfl> --- orig/lib/canonical/launchpad/zcml/bugwatch.zcml
<sabdfl> +++ mod/lib/canonical/launchpad/zcml/bugwatch.zcml
<sabdfl> @@ -22,6 +22,7 @@
<sabdfl>      <browser:editform
<sabdfl>          name="+edit"
<sabdfl>          schema="canonical.launchpad.interfaces.IBugWatch"
<sabdfl> +        class="canonical.launchpad.browser.editview.SQLObjectEditView"
<sabdfl>          label="Change Bug Watch"
<sabdfl>          permission="launchpad.AnyPerson"
<sabdfl>          template="../templates/default-editform.pt"
<sabdfl> stub: that yours?
<sabdfl> lifeless: you can actually use any zcml file
<sabdfl> they all seem to get parsed at startup and any file affects the global namespace
<SteveA> sabdfl: a bit later today would suit me better -- getting the wiki site conversions finished now
<sabdfl> SteveA: ok, ping me when ready
<SteveA> k
<sabdfl> stub: around?
<stub> pong
<stub> Nope - that was Brads I think.
<stub> Looks like he wants to add some behaviour to the view so the template or widgets can do funkier stuff.
<sabdfl> lifeless: is this yours:
<sabdfl> -class xSoyuzProduct(object):
<sabdfl> +class SoyuzProduct(object):
<sabdfl> ?
<sabdfl> or ddaa?
<lifeless> sabdfl: me. 
<lifeless> it broke stuff.
<lifeless> I'm in the process of migrating the code it broke to not need it.
<sabdfl> rather than resurrecting old code, which we are trying to get rid of, can you please integrate with the new code
<SteveA> sabdfl: are there any wiki pages on the new ZWiki site that you want to keep the contents of?
<sabdfl> SteveA: yes, most of it
<sabdfl> SteveA: in fact, all of it to be safe
<SteveA> ok.  I'm going to copy it elsewhere, and then copy it back after the old site has been moved over.
<sabdfl>        UbuntuReleases     HoaryHedgehog     HoaryGoals     HoaryKickoffMeeting      HoaryMergeProcess          HoaryReleaseSchedule         
<sabdfl> these have had quite a lot of work done too
<SteveA> ok, I'll make sure those are preserved
<sabdfl> SteveA: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/WikiWishlist
<sabdfl> could you point the zwiki guy at that?
<SteveA> sure.  The bullet points in moin format work for me 
<SteveA> as in moin, you have to ensure you write " * item" not "* item"
<sabdfl> right
<sabdfl> i'm not comfortable making ReST the default recommended format
<sabdfl> it's way too picky about stuff that seems trivial
<sabdfl> i end up spending ages trying to get rid of all the warnings on the page
<sabdfl> SteveA: how do we regenerate the allowed-tags file?
* stub has just been deleting lines out of it as appropriate
<SteveA> you run the script python checkarchtag.py
<SteveA> python checkarchtag.py check   checks the tags
<SteveA> python checkarchtag.py create   creates the allowed-tags.txt file
<SteveA> running it with "check" tells you what files with implicit tags have been added, moved, or deleted
<SteveA> sabdfl: so, the problem with ReST is not the format, but the implementation of the parser.
<sabdfl> SteveA: is there a better implementation we can point the zwiki guy at?
<SteveA> not that I know of.
<sabdfl> whoa! just merged rocketfuel and have a gazillion test failures
<Kinnison> yeah; I've got that
<SteveA> there may be a better way to use the current implementation, though
<Kinnison> which sucks a bit
<sabdfl> so ReST is "a great format with no good implementations"
<Kinnison> sabdfl: although a second run-through the tests seems to pass
<SteveA> there may be a "be tolerant, we're only human" switch for the current implementation 
<SteveA> I'll ask sm when he's online
<sabdfl> SteveA: saying the problem is not in the format but in the implementation, when there are no good implementations, sounds highly suspect to me
<sabdfl> who came up with ReST and what makes you think its a good format if there are no good implmentations?
<sabdfl> that sounds like saying that "Arch is good it's just tla that sucks"
<sabdfl> until someone actually does a good implementation we don't know that, we can only speculate
<SteveA> there is a detailed specification for the ReST format.  the implementation of it is good, but intolerant of people who edit it without sticking to the spec.
<SteveA> note that the errors you see are "warnings"
<SteveA> I think it is possible to suppress the warnings, or have them in a status message
<SteveA> the warnings are to tell you, the author, that your intentions were conveyed ambiguously to the software
<SteveA> so, probably what needs to improve is the integration of the ReST parser into ZWiki
<sabdfl> hi limi
<stub> Anyone making page tests atm? 
<sabdfl> stub: regarding the dogfood server
<sabdfl> we need that to be a daily drop of schema+code
<sabdfl> well, backup + schema + code
<sabdfl> maybe arrange with elmo for backup of that db every six hours?
<stub> Oohh... saying backup just gave me an idea on how that process can be much easier..
<stub> sabdfl: I'm just using pg_dump from cron on emperor (and hoping that the disk is being backed up regularly...)
<stub> I'll need to write that script that stores the database schema revision and only runs new patches.
<Kinnison> Could a brazillian translate this please:
<Kinnison>         if not build:
<Kinnison>             # LA VARZEA
<Kinnison>             return
<stub> (which is being done manually on emperor due to paranoia)
<limi> Kinnison: Brazil is still asleep (at the wheel? ;)
<stub> SteveA: I'm about to commit a patch that gives us 'stories' in our page tests, where all the existing ones are a single story. Each story is run with a fresh instance of the database, so we can easily get isolation when we need it.
<Kinnison> limi: *shrug* this is in gina :-)
* Kinnison is writing the patch to make her import build records slightly more sensibly
* limi refuels
<ddaa> I see that spiv's fix for taxi.py contains an hardcoded instance of "launchpad_test"...
<ddaa> lifeless: spiv: does that make sense to you? My buildbot test environment is using launchpad_dev atm... I'm confused.
<lifeless> ddaa: thats a bug, should use the valu from canonical.lp
<spiv> Yeah, it should.
<ddaa> yeah... makes sense... I have modified my botmaster config so it sets launchpad.lp.dbname to 'launchpad_dev' before doing anything.
<spiv> ddaa: Where are you looking?
<stub> Hmm... should I fix the Makefile so launchpad_test is deleted next time I check something in through pqm, or is someone online who has access to nuke it on chinstrap?
<ddaa> spiv: I'm looking at rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0--patch-63
<spiv> ddaa: That line is commented out.
<ddaa> since I'm critically dependent on what goes in buildbot those days, I'm auditing the changes...
<spiv> (And probably should be deleted altogether)
<ddaa> Oh... yes, my bad...
<spiv> But then, bob2 tells me that entire functions in that code need to be deleted altogether.
<ddaa> I'm reading a reverse patch and forgot to reverse it mentally...
<ddaa> Makes much more sense when read in reverse :-)
<ddaa> I mean, in the right direction.
<spiv> :)
<ddaa> Actually I have still not yet found a satisfying way to audit changes as they come in...
<spiv> ddaa: Put that on the ArchGripes page ;)
<ddaa> I feel a bit lazy...
<stub> Mmm.... I really like diff output included in my commit-notification emails
<ddaa> btw
<ddaa> I looks like pqm is not honoring the Reply-To header.
<ddaa> So I am _still_ stuck with not receiving the pqm feedback...
<stub> (or at least a link to a web page that shows me the diff, such as a URL to ArchZoom)
<ddaa> lifeless: any advice to get the pqm feedback again?
<lifeless> ddaa: your from should be correct.
<sabdfl> stub: optimistic to think the disk is being backed up
<ddaa> lifeless: I was unable to find how to customize the From with mailx, or the default from generated by postfix.
<spiv> ddaa: I think I can help with the latter.
<ddaa> Except by changing the mail name of the machine, but then that cause my root mail to be routed by my isp....
<spiv> ddaa: I have a "canonical" (damn overloaded words...) map file that says this:
<spiv> $ cat /etc/postfix/canonical
<spiv> andrew  andrew-bounce@puzzling.org
<lifeless> ddaa: ask lamont
<lifeless> he knows all
* ddaa looks for /etc/postfix/canonical
<spiv> ddaa: You'll need to run some magic command to make it turn that into a canonical.db file, and then add "canonical_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/canonical" to your main.cf
<sabdfl> stub: any reason not to have updated the dogfood server to fresh code today?
<stub> Then you just need 'canonical_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/canonical' added to /etc/postfix/main.cf
<ddaa> NO CARRIER
<spiv> ddaa: You may also need to read the documentation, in case I'm misunderstanding how all this works :)
<sabdfl> i'm keen to get us actually dogfooding malone
<ddaa> dude... exim is so easy... just put stuff in /etc/email-addresses... I'm getting angry at postfix....
<sabdfl> as far as i could tell bradb brought the code up talking to launchpad_test
<stub> sabdfl: Can't think of any reason why not, except that if I'm supposed to be doing it I guess I need to chase elmo for an account and relevant rights.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: 'stories' for pagetests (patch-691)
<sabdfl> stub: ok, let's chase elmo!
<ddaa> So, is there a archzoom or viewarch for rockefuel somewhere?
<spiv> ddaa: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/archzoom
<ddaa> spiv: thanks
<ddaa> spiv: Who is admining this thing?
<ddaa> It needs to get signing set up.
<ddaa> And probably a greedy-nonsparse revlib too.
<stub> https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/archzoom/stuart.bishop@canonical.com/plone--secureauth--2.0.4--patch-1/CMFCore/CookieCrumbler.py.diff?diff
<stub> :-(
<ddaa> exactly, look at the "debug mode".
<stub> oh - thought that was something the admin had to turn on - not a hyperlink :-)
<ddaa> I reckon that the link does not stand out...
<sabdfl> stub: just spoke with elmo
<sabdfl> he'll be back online and have you setup within an hour, is that ok to get a first code update done today?
<sabdfl> i think we'll need to hook the dogfood server up to something other than launchpad_test
<stub> As long as there are no glitches that should be doable
<sabdfl> great
<sabdfl> he tells me that he *is* backing up your emperor backups but when he's online please verify with him that this is the case
<ddaa> spiv: more buildbot questions
<ddaa> I want buildbot to listen only to localhost.
<spiv> That can be done.  Lemme see...
* Kinnison hives out this gina fix and gets on with other stuff until the brazillians wake up
<ddaa> I hardcoded that into the code, but lifeless reversed it and asked that it be done in master.cfg. However I hardcoded it because there is no option plumbing to do it.
<spiv> Oh, it's using mktap, hmm...
<ddaa> I actually looked at the code for that. The feature is missing.
<ddaa> Can you do what is necessary to make that configurable from master.cfg... it would take you like 1/4 of the time it would take me.
<ddaa> That was request 1.
<ddaa> Now, request 2:
<spiv> Well, using the plugins.tml/mktap system buildbot currently uses, the right way is to use Twisted's "strports" feature to allow specifying this on the mktap command line.
<spiv> A better idea would be to not use mktap at all, and just use .tac files, but that's more work.
<elmo> stub: you already have access to mawson and the 'launchpad' user which is superuser in postgres
<elmo> stub: what more did you need?
<stub> ok. I didn't know about that :-)
<ddaa> In the waterfall status display, the width of columns is effectively set by the name of the job, because that tends to be a very long string (like 20-30 chars). I would like to have narrower columns so I can fit more data on a screen.
<spiv> (Although it doesn't look like most of the options are exposed in via mktap anyhow..?)
<elmo> there's a mirror on mawson:/srv/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu
<elmo> I'm cron-ing it's update now - once a night is fine, I guess ?
<stub> elmo: Mark wanted me to confirm that the database dumps on emperor are being backed up elsewhere.
<spiv> Oh, yuck, it does it in the master.cfg... that's a bit of a nasty mess.  I wonder if upstream buildbot has tidied this up yet.
<stub> What is the full dns name of mawson?
<elmo> stub: yeah, they are
<ddaa> My initial hack was to mangle the job names for display, introducing zero-width-space character around hyphen-minus chars. But lifeless reverted it because it makes it hard to tell actual spaces that could be in the job name.
<elmo> stub: mawson.ubuntu.com
<elmo> don't forget to add .ssh/config magic, i.e.
<elmo> Host *.ubuntu.com
<elmo>     ProxyCommand ssh stub@chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com nc -q0 %h %p
<carlos> morning
<ddaa> So, request2 is: what do you think should be done to have the job names wrap, even though they contain no whitespace char? I guess something could be done using css or something to force the column width, but i like to keep the default layout where column width is automagically guessed. 
<ddaa> spiv: nasty messes are welcome, I just do not want something listening out to the wide world with trivial login/pass on my machine.
<spiv> ddaa: I understand that :)
<ddaa> I could just hack it in back in the code, but that will cause grief because I will surely forget to back it out before commiting at one point.
<spiv> There's actually a nice-ish fix for 1.
<ddaa> please fire by e-mail.
<spiv> Backwards compatible to.
<spiv> too, rather.
<spiv> I'm just making the patch...
<lifeless> ddaa: if your machine is open-to-the-net, may I suggest iptables -A INPUT -m conntrack -state INVALID,NEW -j REJECT
<lifeless> oh, with a -i eth0 in there
<lifeless> buildbot has to run over the net, thats how it runs in production
<ddaa> lifeless: I used to have a firewall-for-dummies. But since Ubuntu ships none i thought I might as well follow the policy and avoid needless world-listening services.
<ddaa> I'm really reluctant to make my system any more complex than absolutely neede.
<lifeless> sure.
<ddaa> And I never took the time to learn all that is required to write a decent firewall config.
<lifeless> if you hook in via master.cfg, I'm more than happy for your interface-specific patch
<spiv> ddaa: Ok, this patch should help andrew.bennetts@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0--patch-16... with that, you can now set a port number of e.g. "tcp:8008:interface=127.0.0.1"
* lifeless thanks spiv
<spiv> (And it should be backwards compatible, too)
<ddaa> spiv: thanks, I'll look at it right now.
<ddaa> Well, right asaap
<spiv> twisted.application.strports is where that magic happens.
<ddaa> That sounds like love.
<ddaa> I'm about to have to leave for lunch. Do you have a hint about improving the waterfall table layout?
<spiv> Not really.
<lifeless> ddaa: whats wrong with it ?
<spiv> I'll let you know if I do.
<ddaa> lifeless: the job names are too long and cause the columns to be needlessly wide.
<lifeless> I don't think you mean the waterfall view
<lifeless> Are you sure you don't mean the summary ?
<spiv> ddaa: Perhaps name.replace('-', '&shy;') ?
<ddaa> Hu... yes warterfall summary.
<spiv> (soft hyphen)
<ddaa> spiv: it's a mess
<lifeless> I'd rather - gosh - change the job names
<lifeless> we don't depend - anywhere - on the name not having spaces, AFAIK.
<lifeless> but - I don't see any problem on my screen :|
<spiv> lifeless: Sounds like a sane approach :)
<lifeless> spiv: thats what my commit log said :)
<ddaa> spiv: so, you are okay to update the database to have saner names? Using space instead of dash as a joiner?
<lifeless> ddaa: not automated.
<ddaa> Why not?
<lifeless> I'm completely happy as they are.
<lifeless> and not interested in futzing with the production database in an automatic sense.
<lifeless> the production jobs, as they get approved, get a human decided name.  
<lifeless> So far, I haven't managed to think of a consistent, /correct/ policy for that. So automation is right out.
<ddaa> Bah. I can always futz the name in one more post-processing script in my job-importing stuff...
<spiv> ddaa: style="overflow: auto;" in the HTML?
<ddaa> lifeless: the job names are generated automatically from multiple parts joined by dash. Just replacing that with space would be reasonably sane.
<ddaa> spiv: I can look at that, but I expect that it will not do the right thing for the table layout.
* ddaa goes for another import post-processing.
<ddaa> Highest probability of not being rejected by lifeleless.
* ddaa is out for lunch
<stub> Well that was fun
<stub> elmo: Any hints on how to log into mawson without wedging my system so badly I need to power cycle?
<SteveA> stub: what does your .ssh/config say for hosts with "canonical.com" in them?
<SteveA> see bottom of https://wiki.canonical.com/MachineOverview
<elmo> stub: paste me your .ssh/config
<stub> Think I've got it - wildcard hell
<elmo> oh, yeah, you have some prehistoric, and probably highly vulnerable ssh, don't  you?
* stub goes to submit a bug report about lack of process limits
<stub> elmo: I'm running Ubuntu, so hopefully not.
<Kinnison> How easy is it to do a 'like' comparison in a select using sqlobject?
<elmo> oh, yay, you upgraded
<stub> Had to give the mac back
<Kinnison> Can I do something like FooTable.selectBy(barcolumn LIKE 'pattern%') ?
<stub> Kinnison: yes, but the syntax is different.
<stub> from sqlobject import OR, LIKE, CONTAINSSTRING, AND
<stub> self.results = SourcePackage.select(AND(
<stub>                 SourcePackage.q.sourcepackagenameID == SourcePackageName.q.id,
<stub>                 OR(
<stub>                     CONTAINSSTRING(SourcePackageName.q.name, s),
<stub>                     CONTAINSSTRING(SourcePackage.q.shortdesc, s),
<stub>                     CONTAINSSTRING(SourcePackage.q.description, s)
<stub>                     )
<stub>                 ))
<Kinnison> so LIKE(Footable.q.barcolumn, 'pattern') ?
<ddaa> lifeless: still here?
<lifeless> no
<ddaa> Good.
<ddaa> How are you handling files~ in imported archives.
<lifeless> Look in JobStrategy
<lifeless> search for tagging
<lifeless> it should be clear
<ddaa> If you alter the tagging method to make *~ source files, that's going to play badly with "untagged-source unrecognized"
<lifeless> Folk who tag can change the tagging method.
<lifeless> our mandate is a clean import.
<ddaa> lifeless: they will not. And they will complain.
<ddaa> I'd rather vote for something much more specific.
<ddaa> Like a .arch-inventory file that exists only for as long as the file~ exists.
<lifeless> add that a enhancement for the future and move on.
<lifeless> there are plenty of things that folk *will need to tune* after we do the import.
<ddaa> I am really concerned that "tuning" issues like that will reflect very badly on Arch.
<lifeless> oh, if you populate job.tagging_rules, its per import.
<lifeless> and I think that ~ is probably a good candidate for per-import tuning.
<ddaa> I understand it's per import. But that effectively going make the import unusable out of the box for tagging.
<lifeless> ddaa: I understand your point. I'm not disagreeing. But we have a much more serious problem - import volume.
<ddaa> Okay. Can we agree to postpone the imports that contain file~ then?
<lifeless> no.
<ddaa> Better to focus on what will work right.
<lifeless> but we can change the tagging file in them after the import.
<lifeless> in the import-branch.
<ddaa> You mean creating a revision in the import branch which is not a match for a cvs revision?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> we'd be doing that if we dynamically add and remove .arch-inventory files anyway.
<ddaa> Well... that's only half brain-damaged.
<ddaa> With .arch-inventory, we can (and should) fold those changes with the related cvs change.
<lifeless> file a bug, we can discuss the detail later.
<lifeless> this should not be process blocker.
<ddaa> But okay. Fixing the tree later is reasonably useful.
<ddaa> But I fear it's going to bite our arse some day.
<lifeless> depends on the use case for the branch.
<ddaa> Exactly.
<ddaa> For tag-on-latest it's not a problem.
<ddaa> The issue is when someone will come up with a unexpected use case.
<lifeless> the expected use cases are:
<lifeless> a) project tags, and runs their official branch from this
<lifeless> b) sourcerer tags, and runs its branches from this.
<ddaa> None are really critical on the history.
<ddaa> Actually, none really depend on history at all.
<lifeless> well they do - projects usually have at least one member with a strong focus on the history.
<lifeless> and our onoing syncs depend on the history processing being effective, because todays sync becomes tomorrows history.
<ddaa> yup. This my reluctance for putting uneditable trees in the history.
<ddaa> *Thus my...
<lifeless> Now you have lost me completely.
<lifeless> Let me short circuit this.
<lifeless> what project are we talking about 
<lifeless> ?
<ddaa> E.g. w3c-wwwlib
<lifeless> what date was the last commit in CVS ?
<ddaa> Or any project that contains a file~ in the CVS. That's more of a general design problem.
<limi> lunchtime
<lifeless> (cscvs log -P MAIN..
<lifeless> ddaa: do not generalise on me here.
<lifeless> we've got a sample size of >> 50 projects that I've personally inspected during the various tests, and only this one has this file.
<lifeless> its not a general problem if /one/ repo has it.
<lifeless> yes - we might be able to do better -in general-. But - will it be good enough *for this project*.
<lifeless> When we have 2, or 3, we can seriously consider writing a general solution.
<lifeless> But a general solution for an outlier is /how we got the tla ui/
<ddaa> Ok. I assumed that was actually happening in other projects and the moving *~ out of the backup and into the source regex.
<lifeless> no, I don't allow ~ in all projects.
<ddaa> ... was the solution you used routinely.
<lifeless> depends on the file.
<lifeless> I make a per project call.
<SteveA> hi elmo
<ddaa> So, since the problem only occurs with ONE project, we can postpone making a decision. If the issue pops up in other projects, a more general solution will be devised. So at this point we do not want to have broken imports out.
<ddaa> *at this point we will not want
<elmo> SteveA: ?
<SteveA> hi elmo
<SteveA> shortly, I'll be running a script that copies wiki pages from wiki.ubuntu.com to ubuntulinux.org/newwiki
<ddaa> I think I have made my point through to you.
<ddaa> Then it's your call.
<SteveA> when that is done, and newwiki doesn't look too bad, i'll be merging ubuntulinux.org/wiki and newwiki
<SteveA> after I've done this, I'd like the old wiki site to be made read-only
<elmo> eh, is this a good idea, considereding we don't have the caching problems fixed?
<SteveA> except perhaps for a few people like me and mark and lu
<SteveA> and also...
<SteveA> I'd like /wiki excluded from the "ignore cacheing directives" rule
<SteveA> on ubuntulinux.org
<SteveA> is that possible?
<SteveA> <SteveA> and also...
<SteveA> <SteveA> I'd like /wiki excluded from the "ignore cacheing directives" rule
<SteveA> <SteveA> on ubuntulinux.org
<SteveA> <SteveA> is that possible?
<ddaa> elmo: can you create tla signing rules and a non-sparse revlib for archzoom? Pleas.
<thom> SteveA: cache-control headers are respected
<thom> SteveA: if you mean, you don't want it cached at all, that's doable too
<lifeless> ddaa: I've made my call. 
<SteveA> thom: I thought on www.ubuntulinux.com, for all pages, cache-related headers are not respected
<elmo> ddaa: no, not if that's all you've got to say.  if you give me working, step by step instructions, then sure
<SteveA> and on site-edit.ubuntlinux.org (read .org above too please), nothing is cached
<thom> SteveA: #       CacheIgnoreCacheControl On # Disabled - Thom - 20/10/2004; no longer necessary
<ddaa> elmo: okay, I'll gather more information on what is needed when I have some spare cycles...
<SteveA> why was it no longer necessary?
<thom> however, plone still doesn't send Last-Mod (but prolly will by end of play today)
<thom> SteveA: cos they fixed the totally broken cache-control headers they (upfront) had set up
<SteveA> why will plone do that by end of play today?
<thom> because i'm planning to fix it
<SteveA> you do know that someone is being contracted at the moment to sort out cacheing on our plone site properly?
<thom> ...
<SteveA> back to the wiki stuff.  I'm running a script that takes wiki pages from wiki.ubuntu.com, and copies them to ubuntulinux.org/newwiki
<SteveA> then I'll be merging newwiki with wiki on ubuntulinux.org
<SteveA> when that's done, I'd like the wiki site on wiki.ubuntu.com made read-only, except for certain people such as me and mark and lu
<SteveA> I was concerned that the cacheing on ubuntulinux.org/wiki would be too broken to start using that
<SteveA> but, if that's fixed now, that's all good.
<SteveA> thom: viktorija zaksiene is working on makeing our plone sites work well with cacheing.  she has a copy of the ubuntulinux.org plone site, and the apache configs.  she is on irc as "ryzaja" if you want to chat about what she is doing.
<carlos> SteveA: Tags have been removed:
<carlos> c7271ec2-c8e7-4bd0-a78c-6337e9111989 database/sampledata/rosetta-alpha.sql
<carlos> You should re-generate the allowed-tags file.
<carlos> where should I fix it?
<thom> SteveA: k, thanks
<SteveA> does my wiki-moving plan sound okay?
<SteveA> carlos: python checkarchtag.py create
<carlos> SteveA: thanks
<Kinnison> Okay; how do I get the database harness working in this newly unified config thing?
<stub> So anyone know how the launchpad instance on mawson is supposed to be upgraded without doing a complete reinstallation? I can't find a relevant config file in rocketfuel@canonical.com/dists--devel--0, or any suitable launchpad branches in rocketfuel, so I suspect there is no actual process setup?
<lifeless> stub: the devel config should be suitable for dogfooding
<ddaa> lifeless: btw, I see now way to clobber the backup regexp per-project in order to make it more restrictive.
<ddaa> And backup is matched before source.
<ddaa> Therefore, the issue is blocker for w3c-wwwlib
<lifeless> ddaa: good point. you'll need to do an enhancement for that - but as its in the same pattern as the current facility, that should be easy.
<stub> lifeless: It aint going to be until we rename the database then :-(
<ddaa> lifeless: filing an extensive bug right now.
<lifeless> please add a new bug for 'cannot tune backup tagging method'
<lifeless> and make w3m-... depend on it
<lifeless> assign to you, qa contact me.
<ddaa> I'm writing "cscvs should be smart at versioning backup~ files" with a thorough design for .arch-inventory handling. I will file that additional bug you request, but I would like to make the w3c-wwwlib sync bug depend on that bug I'm writing too.
<lifeless> depend on both
<lifeless> .arch-inventory handling is already written in hct.
<ddaa> Ok.
<lifeless> we'd be better off leveraging that rather than designing something new.
<ddaa> Oh, I hope it matches the design I just came up with :-)
<lifeless> but that will require the ok to move that code into pyarch.
<ddaa> The remove condition needs to be different from the add condition.
<lifeless> ddaa: try hct add & hct delete someday.
<ddaa> I intend to.
<ddaa> inventory-classification and .arch-inventory parsing and mutation are on the todo list.
<ddaa> The specific ways to leverage those are application-specific imo.
<lifeless> for now though, please focus on the low hanging fruit approach. identify and move along.
<ddaa> yessir, that's my intention when suggesting to postpone w3c-wwwlibs
<lifeless> yep, I'm agreeing to that as the ~ cannot be per-project tuned
* ddaa thanks his good star
<stub> lifeless: So in your experience, should I do a checkout and build-config in my home directory, copy the checkout to /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/whatever, chown and swap it with the previous installation? Or can the launchpad user do the checkout directly, possibly though a mirror of the rocketfuel archive stored locally?
<lifeless> stub: on galapagos & macquarie, the user just accesses the rocketfuel archive directly, by sshing in with a separate ssh key on my user
<lifeless> on chinstrap
<stub> So the account on chinstrap is accessible to anyone with access to the account on galapagos/macquarie? Hmm...
<lifeless> my account on chinstrap is very limited in access
<lifeless> anyhoo, its what elmo said to do in oxford.
<lifeless> so...
<cprov> lifeless: please, "arch_commit: unable to acquire revision lock (could not rename file.)" how is wrong in this case ?
<cprov> s\how\what
<stub> I might be able to use ssh-agent to do it sanely, but the launchpad user doesn't have a home directory so ~/.ssh can't be created :-(
<lifeless> cprov: tla lock-revision -b <revision that its trying to commit to>
<lifeless> stub: ssh-agent is a real whole...
<lifeless> hole I mean. bwah
<lifeless> much worse than a throwaway ssh key 
<lifeless> with a throwaway key, a compromise gets at chinstrap, and only there.
<lifeless> with ssh-agent, a compromise gets to use /your/ key as it wishes.
<lifeless> now, a throwaway key can easily have a passphrase on it, to mitigate the window-of-opportunity
* ddaa finished filing stuff
<ddaa> lifeless: any request before I go out to get proposals for a thinkpad?
<lifeless> feedback on spivs taxi changes
<stub> lifeless: I suspect we need a local copy of the rocketfuel archive then to do this sanely. The code update needs to be push-a-button or done via cron since the dogfood instance needs to be updated so often.
<ddaa> lifeless: that's a big chunk... (ponders)
<lifeless> my throwaway keys are passphraseless..
<lifeless> talk to daf, hes got a auto updating server
<lifeless> ddaa: at least start such a run before you go ///
<cprov> lifeless: thank you very much, TLA seems to lost itself when the commit was broken by poweroff . was it expected ?
<lifeless> you had a poweroff during a commit ?ouch
<ddaa> cprov: yes, that is expected :-)
* SteveA -> lunch
<lifeless> yes, this is expected behaviour in that case - the transaction isn't rolled back so you can analyse the failure.
<ddaa> cprov: the Law according to lifeless, is "do not release the lock in case of undiagnosable failure". Power-off falls nicely in the "undiagnosable failure" :-)
<cprov> ddaa: lifeless: the nicest thing about it is, simple command and it is working pretty fine again :)
* ddaa starts wiggling around buildbot to test taxi.py
<lifeless> ddaa: it will auto-kick in at the end of the importd
<lifeless> run
<ddaa> I need to import new infos to test that... so I first need to fix the importer to run on the update launchpad and so on...
<lifeless> whats brokern with launchpad ?
<lifeless> (don't you have a running config at all times?)
<ddaa> type object 'SQLBase' has no attribute 'initZopeless'
<ddaa> Trivial fix.
<ddaa> ../lib/canonical/database/sqlbase.py:82: UserWarning: Something tried to set a _connection.  Ignored.
<ddaa> Then nothing gets modified in the db... hints?
* lifeless hooks ddaa & spiv up
<lifeless> in fact 0 you go, and chat with spiv when you return :)
<lifeless> I'm sure spiv will have some thoughts
<ddaa> Okay.
<Kinnison> Can anyone tell me how to get harness.py working again?
<Kinnison> I need to override it to use launchpad_dsilvers instead of launchpad_ftest
<carlos> stub, SteveA: The test check that is run with make check at launchpad (and with every commit) is missing some unittest
<carlos> make check pass
<carlos> but python test.py -u canonical fails
<spiv> ddaa: Ignore it, it's a new warning for an old problem ;)
<spiv> ddaa: It's unlikely to be a real problem.
* spiv -> lunch
<lifeless> spiv: sop why aren't things being modified ? 
* ddaa must be screwing up something else, then
<lifeless> ddaa: is this in your updater ?
<lifeless> if so, you need to commit the transaction.
<ddaa> nah, it's a problem in infoImporter.
<ddaa> Ha... that must be the missing bit.
<lifeless> you are re-importing ?
<ddaa> I'm importing jobs on-demand.
<ddaa> And removing old jobs which are no longer needed.
<lifeless> ohkay
<lifeless> night all
<Kinnison> dbname = "launchpad_ftest"
<Kinnison> in lib/canonical/lp/__init__.py
<Kinnison> meh?
<Kinnison> kiko: please don't CC me on list mails if you can avoid it :-)
<kiko> I forget. 
* kiko sighs
<sabdfl> SteveA: i'm getting mixed messages on the plone cacheing front
<sabdfl> one half are saying that plone is dumb and we need a new product installed which is what Viktoria is working on
<kiko> Kinnison, I'm confused
<sabdfl> another are saying that zope and plone are fine if setup correctly and that upfront made some mistakes in the setup
<Kinnison> kiko: ?
<kiko> Kinnison, we know the current packages because we just need to look at publishing and package tables, right?
<Kinnison> yes
<sabdfl> thom, SteveA, please comment ^^
<kiko> what's the issue with proposed, then? can't it just be a special status in publishing?
<Kinnison> because "proposed" is nothing to do with publishing
<Kinnison> mark and I spent quite a while making sure we weren't combining concepts into the same tables where the concepts were wildly different
<Kinnison> package proposals are clearly a policy thing. the publishing tables belong entirely to the publishing side of lucille really
<kiko> fair enough, but this being up in the air blocks us (in the relevant places)
<kiko> can you have multiple releases proposed for a single distro release?
<Kinnison> then get onto mark about starting to design the derived distro policies
<Kinnison> I'm currently blocked on fixing gina's build stuff because she can't import into the current database design
<cprov> Kinnison: btw, haven't you decided about porposed yet ? another doubt: is there only one proposed version for one architecture ?  
<kiko> yeah, cprov's question is mine as well
<Kinnison> package proposals are the domain of the *DERIVED DISTRO POLICY* and thus have not been given any space in the db (dunno about thought on sabdfl's part, but I got the impression at the launch party that sabdfl and I and several others are probably going to have to have a meeting to design this)
<cprov> Kinnison: I mean, if the build fails on it (for all archs) it should be replaced by the new uploaded packages with the correction ?
<kiko> hmmmm
<Kinnison> cprov: build fails for what when where how?
<cprov> Kinnison: I understand this as Policy question only, too 
<Kinnison> cprov: there is too much undefined currently for me to give answers right now
<kiko> I still haven't grasped why a certain package being proposed for a certain release can't be simply indicated in publishing as a "not ready" state. Maybe I'm thick <wink> 
<kiko> then the policy can hide behind that interface; as a decision is made the status is updated as a consequence.
<Kinnison> publishing == package(and files) are somewhere going into or coming out of the archive which goes onto disk
<kiko> I'm aware of my naivet but please enlighten us because nobody here knows.
<Kinnison> For a record to be in the publishing tables implies that the distrorelease's ftpmasters have already accepted the upload in some way; which could only be done automatically via a policy which says "accept <some spec>" or something
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> and so you feel an "incomplete", "pending" or whatnot status there would be "bad"? why?
<Kinnison> the publishing tables used to confuse the issues of policy-based-proposal, the upload queue and also the publishing statemachine. I've managed to clean it out to just the publishing state machine. I feel adding proposals back in will just confuse the hell out of the entire system
<kiko> it does seem to simplify things significantly on our side, however. :)
<Kinnison> So we should fuck the database normalisation over because it makes things easier for the UI?
* kiko chuckles
<kiko> Kinnison, I just want to understand the issue clearly here. If we had pending in the publishing table, does that mean we would be duplicating data that will live elsewhere (and that is trivially obtainable)?
<kiko> Kinnison, I'm not saying fuck database normalization, 
<Kinnison> kiko: I don't know how easily available the proposals will be; because noone has written any tables for it
<Kinnison> kiko: However putting proposals into the publishing state machine is plainly wrong to me
* kiko shrugs
<kiko> fair enough.
<Kinnison> kiko: What we really need is for sabdfl to have time to look into how to do proposals properly :-)
<kiko> the astroman's spread too thin as it is
<Kinnison> I know; but derivative distributions and the policy governing them really is his baby
<cprov> sabdfl: hi, what do you mean w/ " represent the state of an archive" ?
<BradB> morning
<Kinnison> hey brad
<BradB> hi
* BradB starts reading zee email
<sabdfl> don't worry abut how to get the packages in, or get them out
<sabdfl> just present, on the web, the state of those tables
<BradB> SteveA: sure
<sabdfl> we ARE NOT YET TRYING TO SOLVE THE WORKFLOW
-dmwaters(dmwaters@dmwaters-gentoo.staff.freenode)- {global notice} Hi all! It appears that one of our hubs is having some major routing problems. I'm working on working around this problem, and any further messages will be given in wallops
<sabdfl> k?
<cprov> sabdfl: I see
<kiko> sabdfl, sure. otoh we would like to present releases pending for a certain source package and we are unable to. 
<kiko> this is driven stricly by a soyuz completeness review
<SteveA> BradB: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~stevea/zwiki-2004-10-26.tar.gz
<cprov> sabdfl: where should came this new releases from ? fake ones ?
<kiko> cprov, huh?
<SteveA> sabdfl: any objection to giving simon micheal management rights in the wiki folder on ubuntulinux.org?  He's keen to help get things working nicely.
<cprov> kiko: if we want to show unpublished data, we should have some unpublished data ...
<SteveA> s/micheal/michael/
<kiko> cprov, yes. I suspect sabdfl wants us to just ignore this for now, though.
<kiko> (the uppercasing is a big hint)
<cprov> kiko: then I don't understand the issue on this ... is something like "keep it as it is" ? since we just have "published" packages now ...
<kiko> cprov, yes, I guess we'll just have published packages displayed for sourcepackages, and pending will live as a bugzilla issue.
!dmwaters:*! Hi all! Looks like sprint is to blame for our routing problems this morning. I've worked around the problem for now, but hopefully, it'll clear up soon
<cprov> kiko: ok, what I see is that is impossible to have PROPOSED packages for Warty anyway, since it is frozen, It'll come just with hoary imports using gina in update mode .
<kiko> yeah
<Kinnison> sqlobject select stuff...
<SteveA> BradB: please tell me when you've updated ZWiki and restarted plone
<Kinnison> How do I select in the form: foo=1 and bar like '%thing' ?
<spiv_> Table.select("foo=1 and bar like '%thing'")
<Kinnison> eww; okay
<cprov> kiko: ok, now more than "New Features" approach we should concentrate ourself in get Soyuz working on mawson soon, do we have any news about postgres issue on mawson ?
<Kinnison> there's no 'EQUAL()' like there is 'LIKE()' ?
<spiv_> Oh, you're using the Table.q.foo hack?
<kiko> cprov, elmo solved it.
<Kinnison> spiv_: well, I'll use whatever is recommended
<spiv_> Table.q.foo=1, etc.
<cprov> kiko: I'm verifying ...
<spiv_> I'm ambivalent.  There are nice aspects to using Table.q.foo, but it still feels a bit dirty to me.
<spiv_> (But not having to worry about properly quoting values is a pretty big plus)
<Kinnison> What I want is effectively: AND(PublishedSourcePackageFile.q.distribution=1, LIKE(PublishedSourcePackageFile.q.libraryfilealiasfilename,'%dsc')) which gives: SyntaxError: keyword can't be an expression
<stub> ==, not =
<sabdfl> SteveA: none, go ahead with simon micheal
<SteveA> k
<sabdfl> kiko: the "pending" mechanism in soyuz is (a) unspecified and (b) completely different to the Katie equivalent
<spiv_> What stub said
<spiv_> (Bizarre syntax error text, though)
<Kinnison> AssertionError: Database None unknown
<sabdfl> so we can't easily represent meaningful data there until we spec and implement the workflow, because we can't easily pull that data from a katie db
<sabdfl> what i'm focused on tis week is getting soyuz, malone and doap all running on mawson, with a db that represents useful info
<BradB> SteveA: it's updated and restarted
<SteveA> thanks brad
<elmo> stub: oh i thought you were like, asleep
<BradB> no prob
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: scripts updates and sourcepackage buildlog (patch-692)
<sabdfl> in the case of soyuz, that means that the db would reflect the state of the warty, warty-updates, warty-security, and hoary repositories
<stub> elmo: Will be in a tick
<elmo> stub: sabdfl wants read only access to lp-df - can you arrange for a group of your choosing to be granted read?  
<sabdfl> this we obtain by (a) rsync and katie dump, (b) gina & nicole magic
<sabdfl> run daily
<sabdfl> cprov, kiko, bradb we need to get this dogfood server bedded down today
<sabdfl> elmo: do we have the archive rsync in place to mawson for gina and nicole?
<elmo> yeah
<sabdfl> elmo: also, can we get a dumpt of the katie db along with that archive rsync?
<stub> elmo: I don't understand
<sabdfl> stub: i have a mark@mawson account, and want to be able to psql launchpad_dogfood
<sabdfl> i want to be able to debug the dogfood server
<sabdfl> but don't want superuser rights in that db
<elmo> sabdfl: yeah, doing that now
<stub> ok
<sabdfl> great
<sabdfl> cprov, Kinnison, today, please let;s get gina and nicole running against the mawson archive so that we start to populate the dogfood server with real data
<sabdfl> or real-looking data
<sabdfl> stub will give us a daily code update and schema update
<sabdfl> so from tomorrow we will be able to point our good friends the hoary team at mawson and say "see what we are building for you"
<elmo> dump's in /srv/archive.ubuntu.com/projectb.dump
<sabdfl> over the next few weeks we'll add to it the buildd management, and the workflow, so that we can hopefully switch to using soyuz to manage our archive during es-conf
<sabdfl> from then on, the ubuntu archive will be totally in your hands
<BradB> sabdfl: The dogfood server already is bedded down. It's running; it can be used.
<stub> sabdfl: daily code update has work to be done - I've sketched out a strategy on launchpad@.
<BradB> If you mean it needs an update though, well, that too can be done quickly enough.
<cprov> sabdfl: ok, I just depends on Kinninson help for run Librarian
<Kinnison> sabdfl: gina will have to be running with a librarian also since for now lucille doesn't have the cache logic in her
<stub> BradB: The existing setup can't be updated that I can see, and it is talking to the launchpad_test database which from what people are saying is incorrect (I've heard people here say launchpad_dogfood, and other saying launchpad_dev).
<sabdfl> BradB: yes, it does need an update, please go ahead and exercise stub's strategy :-)
<stub> (Well.. updated apart from a manual process)
<sabdfl> ok, well let's get a librarian up and running
<sabdfl> i prefer launchpad_dogfood
<BradB> stub: Why can't it be updated? I /think/ we can pretty much blow away whatever's there, because I don't think we yet have data worth keeping.
<sabdfl> because it identifies a single specific db instance
<BradB> stub: If you're meaning that you don't have a smooth, stylin, adminish way of doing it, I'm not sure how much I'm involved in making that happen.
<Kinnison> Could someone tell me how to log into mawson then?
<sabdfl> there's nothing there right now that I want to keep, i don't think rosetta has anything in there either
<stub> BradB: Ok. I meant some sort of automated update (ie. without running diffs to see what local mods have been made and reapplying)
<sabdfl> elmo: Kinnison needs to be able to work on mawson too
<sabdfl> guys this is our mission for the day
<sabdfl> i want to be able to walk mdz through malone this evening
<sabdfl> and it has to be early because i've a freaking early start tomorrow to a keynote in frankfurt
<elmo> created an account
<stub> BradB: I'm happy to look into the automated update stuff tomorrow - I suspect the arch team might have some input to my thoughts, so a manual update should be fine for today.
<BradB> sabdfl: Warning: Malone will be broken.
<sabdfl> bradb where, why?
<BradB> sabdfl: The UI changes have made certain things not be there anymore, namely editing product/package assignments.
<sabdfl> ok i can fix that i'm sure
<Kinnison> elmo: ta
<BradB> I can work on fixing those, of course, but I'm not sure how much work's involved.
<sabdfl> let me look at it
<BradB> sabdfl: Do I need to care about any of the automated update stuff? If not, I can start checking in fixes right now instead.
<sabdfl> Kinnison: please verify that you have what you need to get your side into production
<BradB> sabdfl: ok
<Kinnison> sabdfl: I'm not entirely convinced I know what my "side" is apart from the librarian
<sabdfl> bradb; no, stub can take care of the backup / update process tomorrow
<sabdfl> Kinnison: gina, nicole, i thought those transferred to you too
<sabdfl> i'd like to be able to show soyuz with real data
<BradB> Okay, I'll get back to finishing the edit notifications + fixing whatever else I see broken along the way.
<sabdfl> and file bugs on real pacakges
<Kinnison> sabdfl: I was under the impression that I was helping with gina; but not with nicole and that I didn't actually own either
<sabdfl> BradB: let's plan for a code drop to mawson in two hours
<sabdfl> cprov: is nicole still your baby?
* Kinnison hasn't touched nicole ever ever
<cprov> sabdfl: I think so ..
<sabdfl> if so, elmo, cprov needs mawson too
<elmo> cprov has mawson
<cprov> sabdfl: I'm there
<stub> elmo: I suspect the launchpad@mawson user will need a home directory at some point. I will also need to know if the code should be pulled or pushed from chinstrap.
<sabdfl> cprov: we need gina and nicole running on Kinnison's db and librarian today on mawson
<elmo> stub: no, it doesn't, use /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com or some other appopriate dir under /srv
<carlos> SteveA: did you saw my comment about the test checks on commit?
<sabdfl> stub: pull
<cprov> sabdfl: ok
<sabdfl> and manually, daily
<SteveA> carlos: no
<carlos> SteveA: it's not running all checks
<sabdfl> stub: backup, pull, schema update, fire!
<carlos> yesterday I broke one test and it did not detected it
<SteveA> carlos: a pagetest?
<BradB> sabdfl: ok
<sabdfl> SteveA: why have we disabled page tests?
<Kinnison> spiv_: Can I ask you to update server.tac in the librarian to use the new database choosing logic etc please?
<carlos> no, doctests
<spiv_> Kinnison: I'll take a look.
<carlos> SteveA: make check from launchpad does not detect the error 
<stub> elmo: I'm mainly concerned about ~/.ssh/authorized_keys and known_hosts
<SteveA> sabdfl: are pagetests disabled?
<Kinnison> spiv_: also a command-line way to change the ports/fatsam dir would make life way easier
<carlos> there are still some tests failing since long ago that are only detected with "python test.py -u canonical"
<elmo> stub: meh
<spiv_> Kinnison: That's trickier :/
<elmo> if anyone puts anything else in /home/launchpad, I'll hurt them
<Kinnison> spiv_: or env vars or something so I don't have to maintain a patch against server.tac for mawson
<spiv_> Env vars would work.
<spiv_> The point of that tac is that it's a configuration file, it's supposed to vary for different deployments ;)
<SteveA> carlos: "make check" is what pqm runs before merging.  It should run all pagetests.  If it runs anything else, that's a bonus.
<carlos> only pagetests?
<Kinnison> spiv_: It'd be really convenient if we could override it easily though (for now)
<spiv_> (It's got a little too much non-config stuff in it atm)
<carlos> I thought it was running unittests and doctest
<SteveA> that's how I left it.  I recall that someone (I'd need to look up exactly who) said they were going to make it run other tests too.
<SteveA> I haven't checked that this was done.
<spiv_> Oh, I understand.  Just explaining why it is how it is :)
<Kinnison> spiv_: aye
<stub> as a quick hack, can we just have lib/config.py as a poor mans config file?
<carlos> SteveA: it's not done, or it's not working correctly
<sabdfl> SteveA: please can you also set the tags-check to display the numberof tags in the system, so we can notice if anyone adds any
<spiv_> Kinnison: So, server.tac already calls canonical.lp.initZopeless...
<SteveA> sabdfl: the tags check will forbid a checkin if anyone adds any.  unless they cheat by making a new allowed-tags.txt file.
<Kinnison> spiv_: it does?
<sabdfl> SteveA: precisely
<Kinnison> spiv_: then the checkout on mawson is out of date :-(
<sabdfl> that's why i want it to print the number of tags, in case someone cheats, not realising why that's there
<Kinnison> spiv_: or I'm looking at the wrong place
* spiv_ makes sure he's up to date
<sabdfl> stevea:
<sabdfl> # Run all tests. test_on_merge.py takes care of setting up the
<sabdfl> # database.
<sabdfl> ./test_on_merge.py canonical
<sabdfl> Tags have been removed:
<sabdfl> c7271ec2-c8e7-4bd0-a78c-6337e9111989 database/sampledata/rosetta-alpha.sql
<sabdfl> You should re-generate the allowed-tags file.
<sabdfl> Running tests.
<sabdfl> Traceback (most recent call last):
<sabdfl> # Run the pagetests.  Ensure that launchpad is not running using
<sabdfl> # the launchpad_test database, and that nothing else is using that
<sabdfl> # database, or the tests will hang until these processes exit.
<sabdfl> #./test_on_merge.py -f canonical.launchpad.ftest
<sabdfl> note the last line
<spiv_> Kinnison: Yeah, it does.  Line 16.
<SteveA> sabdfl: who did that!
<sabdfl> i didn't
<sabdfl> arch blame, anyone?
<Kinnison> dsilvers@rosetta:/srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/launchpad-dogfood $ cat -n lib/canonical/librarian/server.tac | grep 16
<Kinnison>     16  application = service.Application('Librarian')
* SteveA yells "fuck" and beats his head on the keyboard (metaphorically speaking)
<kiko> ehe
<Kinnison> spiv_: methinks mawson is out of date then
<SteveA> what's the point of having tests if someone goes and disables them...
<kiko> sabdfl, arch blame doesn't exist.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fixed some tests I broke yesterday (patch-693)
<stub> The Makefile appears fine here...
* BradB eagerly awaits the new canonical arch
<spiv_> sabdfl: stub did it in patch-675, apparently.
<stub> SteveA: Check the makefile. That commented out (the #). The tests are run a few lines above
<cprov> elmo: how to transfer files from zhongshan to mawson ?
<elmo> cprov: err, scp?
<SteveA> my arch is still churning on star-merge
<BradB> SteveA: yeah, i'm not sure what the problem is, based on what sabdfl pasted above, that looks like it runs all the tests
<cprov> elmo: asks for pass ?
<kiko> heh
<elmo> cprov: echo "Please change my Debian password" | gpg --clearsign | mail chpasswd@db.warthogs.hbd.com
<SteveA> my tla has finally given me the latest source
<SteveA> so, yes, tests are all being run.
<SteveA> there is a confusing comment left in the makefile
<stub> That would be my decoy :-)
<elmo> cprov: (assuming you've forgotten your password)
<carlos> sabdfl: I fixed the  allowed-tags already
<SteveA> carlos: have you made it print the number of tags? 
<carlos> nope
<carlos> SteveA: the rosetta-alpha.sql removal
<cprov> elmo: if I should use the pass I wouldn't like to use something like this 'x@(&*%^*' <wink>
<carlos> I mean, I did not disable anything, I just removed a file with an arch tag (yesterday) and today I asked you about how to fix that warning, it should be fixed in rocketfuel as soon as pqm accepts my last merge request
<elmo> cprov: once you get a pass, you can change it via the web interface https://db.warthogs.hbd.com/ when you've logged into mawson or chinstrap
<carlos> hmm, it's now at rocketfuel.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Some general kiko changes (patch-694)
<cprov> elmo: no lynx on mawson, so no access to https://db.warthogs.hbd.com/
<elmo> blah, there is on chinstrap
<SteveA> elmo, can I get a log in to gentoo for a while to check some plone configs?
<elmo> SteveA: enabled your account there
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA> where's the ldap thinggie to change passwords etc.?
<elmo> see scroll back
<elmo> tho, you should really use ssh pub keys
<elmo> i.e. 'cat .ssh/id_rsa.pub | gpg --clearsign | mail change@db.warthogs.hbd.com'
<SteveA> I do.  at least, I do on chinstrap
<SteveA> ta
<SteveA> is that on a wiki page anywhere?
<sabdfl> stevea, bradb: update on the cacheing situation
<SteveA> cacheing?
<sabdfl> yes
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Now with arch-tags count (patch-695)
<sabdfl> i know viktroia is working on this but expect we are going to be pissing in the wind
<sabdfl> if we try to wait for a perfect solution to the integration of plone and apache
<sabdfl> clearly, SOMEONE out there would have solved this cleanly, and documented it, if it was easy
<BradB> sabdfl: That's who I recommended to do the job. :)
<SteveA> right now, I'm trying to work out why moin mode in our plone does not like non-ascii characters
<sabdfl> i see no reason why we should not just use https://www for authenticated connections
<sabdfl> BradB: SOMEONE? they declined
<sabdfl> and leave that entirely uncached
<BradB> sabdfl: Nope, they were much more expensive.
<SteveA> they also documented it, and i expect vika is following those documents
<sabdfl> the main site on http://www. can remain cached
<sabdfl> we just need to set things up so that the "log in" button switches you to https and keeps you there
<sabdfl> and the "log out" button takes you back to http
<sabdfl> thom has already set it up so that https is uncached
<sabdfl> and http is cached
<sabdfl> we just need to sort out the login, logout interaction
<sabdfl> which should be trivial
<SteveA> I expect the way to do that is for the plone standard template to redirect to https if there is a user logged in
<SteveA> and it is on http
<sabdfl> stevea: simpler even: just redirect to https for the login, and don't redirect back
<sabdfl> and send the cookie to https://www. rather than http://www
<SteveA> I don't think that would work effectively
<sabdfl> the browser will then only send te cookie to https://www.
<sabdfl> why not?
<SteveA> cookies don't care if they are on http or https, do they?
<BradB> sabdfl: Why not see what happens first from Vika working on this though?
<BradB> I'm trying to fix some things in Malone atm before the code drop, and would have thought my time is better spent doing that atm.
<sabdfl> bradb: i need a sensible answer yesterday, which is when i agreed to open up the web site
<sabdfl> we have been faffing around for more than a month on auth and it is still not working
<sabdfl> i'm trying to find the simplest solution that will work today
<sabdfl> this is bs
<SteveA> as soon as someone follows a link to the site, they'll be getting a confused cached page saying perhaps that they are logged in, perhaps that they are not.
<BradB> yeah, i know it's bad. i guess vika hasn't had time to start on it yet.
<lulu> BradB: vika is onto it - deadline is tomorrow.
<sabdfl> steve: no, because the only cached pages will be not logged in
<sabdfl> and the only logged in pages are on https and won't be cached
<sabdfl> only question is whether or not the cookie will be sent to the http site
<Kinnison> spiv_: have you made those changes for the librarian?
<Kinnison> sabdfl: How do we update the codebase for launchpad-dogfood?
<sabdfl> in which case we should get the proxy to auto-redirect to https for connections with the cookie
<sabdfl> Kinnison: you commit to you rocketfuel before 18:00 UK time
<Kinnison> sabdfl: So I have to wait until 18:00 before I start the librarian?
<SteveA> elmo: I've mailed change@db.  but I'm still prompted for a password to get into gentoo
* Kinnison is a little concerned about timings because he prior arrangements for tonight so can't stick around past 19:15
<sabdfl> in future, stub will do a daily update of the codebase to dogfood, probably during his morning, our night
<elmo> one sec
<sabdfl> Kinnison: is the code you need already in rf?
<Kinnison> sabdfl: apparently; yes
<Kinnison> sabdfl: I'm just waiting for spiv to confirm
<sabdfl> was it in rf over the w/e?
<Kinnison> well; it's not in /src/launchpad.ubuntu.com/
<sabdfl> bradb: can we do an earlier pull of the code and schema so that Kinnison can start bringing the librarian up?
<elmo> SteveA: just propagation time, I've forced it through
<sabdfl> bradb: i've "fixed" assignment editing (links work but the process and semantics need work)
<BradB> sabdfl: the earlier you pull the code, the more bugs will be in it. i'm working on fixing what's broken, but there's still more to do.
<SteveA> sabdfl: just checked the cookie spec.  so, we could mark the cookie as "secure"
<SteveA> then it would be sent only over ssl
<sabdfl> SteveA: perfect
<SteveA> elmo: still asks me for a password
<elmo> try logging in with the right user name?
<elmo> i.e. 'stevea' not 'steve'
<sabdfl> :-)
<kiko> heh
<SteveA> ah -- I misunderstook .ssh/config
<SteveA> thanks elmo
<SteveA> I have no idea if zope / average browser implements that part of the cookie spec, though.  I'll see if I can find out. 
<stub> Standalone cookie crumber sets the secure flag automatically if the URL is https:, but Plone distributes the old CMFCore release. The relevant function is defaultSetAuthCookie if you want to backport it to Plone. I have the relevant code in my repository.
<Kinnison> elmo: how do I become launchpad on mawson?
<Kinnison> sabdfl: is the database we're working against called launchpad_dogfood then?
<lulu> SteveA: how soon can the short term cacheing solution be implemented? and who will be  doing it?
<elmo> Kinnison: 'sudo su - launchpad'
<Kinnison> elmo: eww :-)
<Kinnison> elmo: what ever happend to 'sudo -u launchpad -s' ? :-)
<sabdfl> Kinnison: yes, i believe so
<Kinnison> sabdfl: cool
<elmo> you can probably do that to, 'sudo -l' and see if you care
* Kinnison prepares /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/librarian to be the file-root for the librarian
<sabdfl> stub: you are a machine
<stub> A machine who is going to bed now...
<spiv_> Kinnison: Sorry, was busy emailing my travel agent...
<Kinnison> spiv_: fair enough :-)
<spiv_> Kinnison: The initZopeless change is already in rocketfuel.
<spiv_> Or was there something else you wanted?
<Kinnison> spiv_: If you can get those fixes in within the next 1h15m then I will be clear to go :-) (the envvar stuff for overriding db name, disk root, ports etc)
<spiv_> Oh, the environment variables.  Ok, I can do that now, that's fast.
<Kinnison> thanks
<stub> urp... canonical.lp.dbname == launchpad_ftest. Will fix tomorrow :-(
<sabdfl> BradB: how do i use the OwnerWidget?
<Kinnison> stub: yeah; that's buggering up running the db harness which I use for testing my lucille code :-(
<sabdfl> does it basically allow me to get an owner added to an edit or add page without offering a listbox?
<stub> sabdfl: Check IBug and the .zcml for its add form. It is an invisible widget that always sets the ownerid to the currently authed user
<sabdfl> stub: before you crash
<sabdfl> what's the status on the bugwatches?
<sabdfl> are you happy it's ready?
<sabdfl> for prime time?
<sabdfl> do we have the "link any project to any bug tracker" stuff in place?
<SteveA> stub, BradB: can you talk to each other about getting a cookie crumbler that sends secure-flagged cookies onto the ubuntulinux.org plone? 
<stub> Working fine last I looked a few days ago. No support for authentication though, so might be a problem if we want to watch the canonical bugzilla.
<stub> The code is hooked into the unittests so should have survived any recent changes.
<sabdfl> ok, next week in that department could you add support for authentication, and the sourceforge bugtracker?
<sabdfl> stub: thanks and g'night
<BradB> sabdfl: The quickest person to ask would be the person who wrote it, but it looks like a widget you use like any other, but it's custom-tailored to suit a field you want to modify whose value is an ownerID.
<BradB> SteveA: Added to tomorrow's todo list.
<sabdfl> BradB: i'm trying to set it up so "add a subscription" basically only lets you add yourself
<stub> sabdfl: I'm not sure of the best way of proceeding on the auth - it will make the bugtracker stuff much more complex if we want to support anything more complex than our own bugzilla. We either need to add columns to the table to store the credentials, or encode it in the URL which might be naughty.
<sabdfl> stub: columns in the db is sensible
<BradB> sabdfl: we don't want any kind of edit form for that
<sabdfl> bradb: or do we want to work on the basis that you CAN subscribe someone else?
<sabdfl> SteveA: wiki people are wanting to know what the status is
<sabdfl> they are continuing to edit the old wiki but worried their content will be lost
<stub> sabdfl: Would it be acceptible to turn off requiring basicauth from our IP addresses? or will elmo punch me for suggesting that?
<BradB> sabdfl: if that's how it is currently (which i think it is) then i'd say yes. fish, bigger to, fry, etc. I think there's more valuable changes that can be done to Malone presently.
<spiv_> Kinnison: Merge request sent.
<Kinnison> spiv_: fantastic
<Kinnison> sabdfl: filelist files for apt-ftparchive successfully built
<SteveA> sabdfl: I'm working with simon m. on why pages with non-ascii characters are not working.
<Kinnison> sabdfl: I'm writing a test apt.conf which assuming it works will generate the packages files etc for us
<BradB> SteveA: are reST pages still not working with utf-8?
<SteveA> once that's working, I can run my import script, and it will import without errors.
<SteveA> BradB: this is a different problem, specific to moin formatting
<BradB> ok
<sabdfl> bradb: its potentially a trivial change, it's more a question of how we want malone to behave than how hard it is to get it there
<SteveA> BradB: one more ZWiki bugfix coming up
<sabdfl> Kinnison: super, thanks, what's next?
<BradB> woo
<sabdfl> SteveA: ok, so no conversion has been done?
<SteveA> I have a script that pulls things across.  I've been running it in a test folder, noting problems, and getting them fixed.
<BradB> sabdfl: then i'd say it's best for the user to decide if they want to be subscribed. if anything, subscribing anyone else can be a func for priv'd users later on
<SteveA> when all important problems are fixed, I'll run the script one final time
<Kinnison> sabdfl: once I'm happy that I can do an apt.conf to generate the packages files etc; I need to write something to pull config out of the lucilleconfig columns we added to the distrorelease and distribution tables and generate the bits to tack on the side. then I should be in a position to have a script which when invoked can publish an archive to disk
<sabdfl> stevea: can we announce to the wiki team that their changes will not be lost?
<Kinnison> sabdfl: then I need to sit back; take stock; and decide which direction to push at next
<sabdfl> this means that before you run the script canonically, we LOCK the old wiki, for good
<sabdfl> and the wiki system is down while we bring up the new one
<SteveA> sabdfl: their changes will not be lost
<SteveA> they can keep working on the old site
<SteveA> until it is closed to forbid more work
<sabdfl> ok, so you will lock it before the final run?
<SteveA> shortly after it is closed, I'll go through the RecentChanges page, and make sure we've got everything
<sabdfl> how long do you think it will take?
<SteveA> from now -- depends if we've fixed all the important bugs in zwiki moin mode
<sabdfl> i'd rather we locked it, then ran the script, so there's no arsing about with recent changes
<sabdfl> :-)
<SteveA> that means I'll have to do two "final" runs, but that's okay
<SteveA> I still need to check recent changes before the final final, to make sure I have any newly added pages
<SteveA> but anyway -- no changes are going to be lost
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Allow librarian settings to be overriden by environment variables (patch-696)
* Kinnison merges in spiv's change to check it does the trick
<SteveA> BradB: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~stevea/zwiki-2004-10-26b.tar.gz
<Kinnison> spiv_: looks good; thanks
<Kinnison> so the clear initZopeless() call uses canonical.lp.dbname?
<SteveA> BradB: please ping me when ZWiki is updated
<spiv_> Yes.
<Kinnison> spiv_: which means launchpad_ftest unless I override it in server.tac ?
<BradB> SteveA: updated, restarted.
<spiv_> Yes.
<Kinnison> spiv_: So much for avoiding editing server.tac :-(
<Kinnison> spiv_: Thanks for those env changes though; they'll be way useful :-)
* Kinnison ponders; surely we'll have to edit canonical/lp/__init__.py anyway since the webapp will use it?
<spiv_> Yeah, that was my thinking.
<Kinnison> Right
* Kinnison wonders whose job that is
* Kinnison supposes he'll do it :-)
<spiv_> 15:46 < stub> urp... canonical.lp.dbname == launchpad_ftest. Will fix tomorrow :-(
<Kinnison> I thought sabdfl wanted something running by tonight though :-(
* Kinnison shrugs and will wait for 18:00 anyway
<dilys> Bug 2136 resolved: Translation of new pofiles is broken since the table split
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2136
<SteveA> thanks BradB
<BradB> Kinnison: we can do an update on mawson, but two things will not happen: 1. a shiny way of updating the code, 2. keeping any of the existing data. sabdfl can probably confirm that this doesn't matter yet.
<BradB> the db will still be launchpad_test as well, because it's too error prone to think of changing yet, imho.
<Kinnison> but after the update, canonical/lp/__init__.py will likely say launchpad_ftest
<BradB> why not change it?
<SteveA> BradB: did you restart the plone site?
<BradB> right before i said i did, yep
<SteveA> can you do so again, please?
<BradB> done
<SteveA> thanks
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Added a missing constraint from to a POMsgSet query that caused the bug #2136 (patch-697)
<sabdfl> bradb, Kinnison we can blow away the db today
<carlos> spiv_: I'm executing one of the rosetta scripts and I get:
<carlos> psycopg.OperationalError: FATAL:  database "launchpad_ftest" does not exist
<carlos> ; used connection string 'dbname=launchpad_ftest'
<carlos> It's using canonical.lp.initZopeless()
<carlos> to connect to the database
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: added package infestation edit notification (patch-698)
<elmo> SteveA: btw, irregular reminder about the upload stuff ...
<SteveA> thanks
<SteveA> BradB: got a minute to chat?
<BradB> SteveA: sure
<SteveA> BradB: was going to ask your opinion on a horrid hack.  But it turns out there's no need for that.  There will be a new new ZWiki shortly that should fix the remaining i18n bugs
<BradB> ok
<Kinnison> Is everyone happy for me to update the launchpad checkout in /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com on mawson?
<daf> carlos: meeting time?
<cprov> Kinnison: fine
<debonzi> If one SourcePackage has no product/project, can I assume also that there is no translations for it?
<carlos> daf: phone
<BradB> SteveA: did you say there was going to be a meeting tomorrow morning, btw?
<debonzi> s/there is/there are
<BradB> i'm sure you did after the last one
<SteveA> yeah.  there should be a meeting tomorrow.
* SteveA checks sent mail
<BradB> there was no mail about it
<SteveA> darn.  I didn't send the mail.
<SteveA> debonzi, cprov: can you guys make a meeting tomorrow?
<debonzi> SteveA, wich time is good for you?
<SteveA> 13:00 UTC ?
<Kinnison> If I hear no "please don't do that"s before 18:20 my time (5 minutes from now) I'll update the launchpad checkout
<debonzi> SteveA, it is better to me after 16:00 UTC, but if its not ok for you Im ok with 13:00 UTC
<SteveA> BradB: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~stevea/zwiki-2004-10-26c.tar.gz
<carlos> daf: I'm ready
<cprov> SteveA: of course, 13:00 UTC
<SteveA> debonzi: any later is bad for stub
<SteveA> daf, carlos: 1300 UTC meeting tomorrow?
<debonzi> SteveA, ok its fine 13:00 UTC
<SteveA> daf: how did the bug triage go?
<SteveA> thanks debonzi
<debonzi> SteveA, you are welcome
<carlos> SteveA: it's ok for me
<carlos> SteveA: I think we have about 5-7 bugs left to finish the review
<SteveA> can you finish it before the meeting?  then you can give a report on the remaining rosetta bugs.
<daf> you're proposing two meetings?
<BradB> Kinnison: on mawson?
<daf> one for bug triaging and one general one?
<SteveA> daf: I'm asking you and carlos to finish the bug triaging
<SteveA> and then to report from that to the all-launchpad meeting
<daf> oh ok
<daf> I was proposing a daily meeting for today
<SteveA> great
<daf> a Rosetta meeting
<daf> carlos: #canonical-meeting?
<carlos> daf: sure, let me make a call of 5 minutes
<Kinnison> BradB: yes
<Kinnison> BradB: doing it now 
<Kinnison> BradB: unless you complain in the time it takes me to grab a drink; I'm suddenly very thirsty
<BradB> nah, go for it
<daf> carlos: ok
* Kinnison sighs
<Kinnison> I go for it; I get 'archive not registered'
* Kinnison kicks it
<SteveA> BradB: zwiki update?
<BradB> yeah, just did it :) updated and restarted.
<BradB> Kinnison: you'll have to build-config on your machine dude
<Kinnison> brad: sux2beme
<SteveA> thanks
* Kinnison does so
<BradB> Kinnison: unless you feel like putting your private keys and such on mawson :)
<Kinnison> BradB: y'know; naah
<BradB> heh
<SteveA> looks like the moin non-ascii issue is fixed
<BradB> woo
<SteveA> next, to try a full upload of pages again
<BradB> SteveA: any more updates expected in the next little while? i have some hunting and gathering to do (i.e. lunch)
<SteveA> to check there's no breakago
<SteveA> BradB: hopefully not.
<Kinnison> elmo: can we have bzip2 installed on mawson please?
<elmo> done
<dilys> New bug 2147 for Launchpad/Rosetta: We are not setting the iscomplete flag when a translation has all needed strings
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2147
<Kinnison> elmo: ta
<debonzi> SteveA, If I want to use a rosetta view class in one soyuz page but the context is diferent is it right to use another view class (SourcePackageView) to give to it the right context?
<SteveA> I don't quite understand
<sabdfl> SteveA: so are we ready for the wikiwikibangbang?
<debonzi> SteveA, ok by steps :)
<debonzi> I want to have an instance of ViewProduct inside one soyuz page
<SteveA> sabdfl: I'm doing a dry run now
<sabdfl> ok, with rocketfuel later?
<Kinnison> Okay, /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/ updated
<debonzi> but IFAIK I cant set it in a zcml as I view class for my page because de context is diferent from the one that ViewProduct expect
<debonzi> is it right to use another view class, that returns ViewProduct with the right context as an argument?
<debonzi> SteveA, is it totally no sense?
<SteveA> yep, fully fueled later
<SteveA> I just added a few recently-created pages to the list
<SteveA> debonzi: by "inside one soyuz page" do you mean like a URL: onepage/insidepage, or do you mean like a portlet -- an area inside that page ?
<debonzi> SteveA, like a portlet
<debonzi> SteveA, to have on the template something like "view/product" that is an ViewProduct instance
<SteveA> well, view/product/+someview should work.  so, maybe try  <div tal:contents="structure view/product/@@+someview"> view portlet </div>
<debonzi> SteveA, ok.. Ill check it. thanks
<ddaa> spiv_: (or anybody awake) is it required to use .begin() before .commit() in ZopelessTransationManager, or does creating the the connection implicitly opens a transaction?
<spiv_> The latter.
* ddaa boggles at the working hours of the .au staff...
<ddaa> thanks
<spiv_> ddaa: I'm in Prague atm.
<spiv_> bob2 keeps strange hours, though.
<ddaa> (scratch eye and raise eyebrow) you are on vacation or something? As to bob2, he brags about living on a 30 hours cycle. Even if we keep telling him that is not healthy...
<Kinnison> Would someone do the database initialisation for mawson please and then let me know when it's done
* Kinnison runs off to prod the kitchen
<spiv_> I'm not on holiday, but my gf is, and I'm travelling with her.  If that makes sense.
<ddaa> Definitely.
<spiv_> So I haven't been home since I left for Oxford.
<daf> debonzi: you assigned https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2139 to Rosetta -- do you need some help from us on this?
<spiv_> And I probably won't be until after the Barcelona conf.
<ddaa> Prague is a beautiful city. Have a beer at "Klub jezd" and think of me. I love this place.
<ddaa> It's at the jezd tram station.
<spiv_> Gar, something about screen and/or irssi ate the first char of that name.
<daf> encoding problem, I think
<ddaa> Sorry... my system is on latin1 still...
<ddaa> It's \'Ujezd
<spiv_> So it's looks like "<square>jzed" ;)
<spiv_> Ah, ok.
<ddaa> They have fantastic beer there, I'm no expert but I believe it's a kind of ale. When they serve it, it looks like _milk_ until the gas bubbles up.
<spiv_> Ooh :)
<spiv_> That doesn't look to hard to get to.  Just the other side of the river.
<daf> zjed?
<daf> er, jezd
<ddaa> Prague is probably the city in the world where you have the greatest variety of beer by square kilometer.
<ddaa> The natives are a bit weird, though...
<ddaa> I believe that has something to do with some slavic depressive temper...
* Kinnison -> Town. Back later
<spiv_> That's ok, they seem to be outnumbered by the tourists ;)
* daf had some very nice Belgian beer last weekend
* ddaa sighs with a deep nostalgy and goes back to info importing.
<debonzi> daf, maybe Ill need, but for while am ok.. thanks :)
<daf> debonzi: ok, can I reassign it from Rosetta to Soyuz then?
<debonzi> daf, yes.. no problem
<daf> debonzi: great -- let me know if you have any questions
<debonzi> thanks daf
<daf> de nada
* ddaa is out
<BradB> Kinnison: ping
<sabdfl> hi guys
<sabdfl> BradB: can i ask you to do another pull of code to dogfood?
<sabdfl> in a minute once i've committed to rf?
<BradB> sure...i was about to checkin fixes a couple more things too (both in about 10-15 mins, hopefully), but...
<limi> sabdfl: I assume you saw my mail - I will be working on some simple Javascript code to enhance the Rosetta editing experience tonight - unless you have special tasks you want to get done by tomorrow.
<dilys> New bug 2148 for Launchpad/Rosetta: We should add fuzzy strings as suggestions
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2148
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: fixed product infestation edit link (patch-699)
<sabdfl> limi: sounds good
<sabdfl> BradB: hope our respective patches don't conflict :-)
<SteveA> BradB: how do you admin plone?  su to user zope ?
<BradB> SteveA: yes
<BradB> well, sudo -u zope -s
<BradB> sabdfl: we'll find out nowish. ;)
<SteveA> elmo: can I have rights to su to user zope on gentoo?
<sabdfl> SteveA: thanks for the tags count on testing :-)
<SteveA> going down?
<sabdfl> no, just having the number now is nice
<sabdfl> can hopefully watch it tend to zero
<sabdfl> BradB: i think it will merge fine, i just refueld and got no patches so i must have got your when i refueled just before launching
<SteveA> phew -- the latest test run of wiki conversion seems to have worked. simon and one of the docs guys are looking at it to check for problems.
<sabdfl> when dilys says it's in, please could you update mawson?
<sabdfl> i'd like to walk mdz through malone
<BradB> sure
<sabdfl> think it will be ready in about 30 mnutes?
<BradB> sabdfl: can i get my last patch in there too? it's done, but i'm just waiting for tla changes
<sabdfl> BradB: as you wish, but i have a deadline of having it up in 30
<BradB> ok. i'm not sure if i can create and scp a tarball that quickly, but i'll try.
* SteveA goes for a teaworkrave break
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: commit cleanups for dogfood (patch-700)
<BradB> sabdfl: I'd plan for it to be ready in an hour from now, if possible.
<BradB> If you want to speed up the process, you doing a build-config and scp'ing up the tarball into your homedir may speed up the process by 15-20mins
<BradB> (homedir on mawson, that is)
<SteveA> BradB: got a few minutes?
<BradB> sabdfl: n/m, i think it'll be okay now. i had to grab my dists folder from my old machine, but my build config has started.
* debonzi goes with cprov to buy more laptop memory (cprov is runnig crasy without memory :)
<BradB> SteveA: not at the moment, sorry
<SteveA> k
<BradB> SteveA: i'm bottlenecked by tla, so i do now. :)
<limi> BradB: how is tla on the new 'book?
<BradB> limi: still quite a bit slower than ext3 i'm sure, but certainly a major, major improvement over the other lappy with jaguar.
<limi> yup
<limi> but it's bearable now?
<BradB> oh yeah, i'd say so.
<BradB> in general, it's excellent. tla/arch is the one and only app where i go "oh. my. god."
<limi> hehe
* limi is very happy with the performance in general too
<limi> even Plone is snappy ;)
<limi> in debug mode
<BradB> cool
<BradB> sabdfl: i'm still waiting on the build-config. then gotta tar it up, then scp it up to mawson, then reset the db, then replace the source code, then restart. should be another half hour or so.
<SteveA> BradB: cacheing.  stub said he had some patch for cookiecrumbler to make it send secure cookies
<SteveA> can you apply this to the code for ubuntulinux.org's plone?
<sabdfl> ok, i'm out of time
<BradB> SteveA: sure, when i have the patch, i can apply it.
<BradB> sabdfl: sorry, but i'll continue to work on getting it up on mawson as fast the software lets me.
<SteveA> did you get stu's archive for the last cookie-crumbler stuff?
<BradB> oh yeah, i was thinking that'd he'd be sending me an email with a patch in there, but yeah, i can check that archive.
<SteveA> sabdfl: here's an update on the wiki conversions.
<SteveA> one of the docs guys looked at it and seems reasonably happy.  there is some fixing up to do, but not too much.
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> simon michael has helped out a great deal.
<sabdfl> is it ready for the big red button?
<SteveA> he's just been changing the wiki folder for a different one that is more scalable (accepts more pages, without slowing down)
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> there have been no edits on wiki.ubuntu.com in a while
<SteveA> unfortunately, thom and elmo aren't around to make it read-only
<sabdfl> that's unusual
<sabdfl> where are they?
<SteveA> dunno.  I pinged them on irc.  both are away on jabber
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> kamion offered to sms thom
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> is the ubuntu wiki on rince?
<SteveA> but, I said maybe later -- let's see what the plam is first
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> I don't know where it is
<sabdfl> ok
<SteveA> I'm somewhat confused as to the situation with cacheing.  Did thom set things up so that ssl works for any page on ubuntulinux.org ?
<sabdfl> if it has to roll to tomorrow, that's ok just get them to work with you on it first thing in the morning
<sabdfl> i believe so
<sabdfl> and that is uncached
<elmo> I was eating dinner
<SteveA> ok, so if brad can locate the patched cookiecrumbler from stu, we can have secure cookies
<sabdfl> we need the "login" page not to redirect to http
<sabdfl> we need the logout page to go to http
<SteveA> I might be able to do that.  I'm a bit nervous of playing with plone, because I don't particularly know what I'm doing.
<sabdfl> then with the cookiecrumbler we are ok
<sabdfl> then let's not rush
<SteveA> brad could do it reliably, I'm sure
<sabdfl> i will be offline most of tomorrow, at frankfurt linuxworld, keynot
<sabdfl> e
<sabdfl> then i am off to sa to help the govt go open source and hopefully launch ubuntu to the sa media
<sabdfl> also, dad's 60th
<sabdfl> back monday 8th
<SteveA> ok.  Interestingly, Jim Fulton was asking me a few questions about our experience with a distributed company.  I think zope corp are having trouble hiring good people who want to live in fredericksburg.
<SteveA> got time for a quick call now?
<sabdfl> that is interesting
<sabdfl> stevea no i have a 5am start and a 45 minute speech to write :-)
<SteveA> ok.  anything from you for the lp meeting tomorrow?
<sabdfl> DOGFOOD!
<SteveA> k
<sabdfl> as soon as malone is up i'd like to say that new bugs should be filed there only
<SteveA> I'll get the rosetta team started with i18n in launchpad
<SteveA> elmo: Can I get "su to zope" privs on gentoo?
<elmo> done
<SteveA> elmo: also, I'd like to make the wiki.ubuntu.com moinmoin thing read-only tomorrow morning.  any idea what time you expect to be around?  or thom's usual getting up time?
<SteveA> cheers
<elmo> dunno, depends when I go to bed - if I'm not up and you need me, just ring me
<elmo> err, do you know how to make moinmoin read only btw?
<elmo> short of chattr +I :)
<SteveA> I have no idea
<elmo> I'm not sure wiki's have a 'read-only' switch, but I'll check the docs
<SteveA> or, can we forbid logging in?
<SteveA> did you get a new phone number?  or did you get the old one back?
<elmo> old one back
<BradB> SteveA: hm, i have no idea where stub's patch is.
<BradB> i've looked through his archive, but nothing that i've seen appears to be a fix that secures cookies
<SteveA> ok.  I'll send an email
<BradB> elmo: did you have a chance to do what celso's requested for soyuz dogfooding?
<elmo> BradB: err, no, where did he mail?
<BradB> lp@
<elmo> meh
<sabdfl> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/doap/projects/canonical
<sabdfl> bradb, stevea, i've created sample products for malone, soyuz and rosetta for the dogfooding
<sabdfl> so we can assign bugs to them
<sabdfl> so bradb, no more blowing away that db
<BradB> sabdfl: then we probably won't get a new version going today.
<sabdfl> bugger
<BradB> because i have no idea what the diff in the schema is between then and now + any needed data migration.
<sabdfl> bradb ok blow it away
<sabdfl> could you print out the project / product pages there and recapture those three?
<sabdfl> shouldn't take 2 minutes
<elmo> okay, locking down Moin is easy enough
<BradB> sabdfl: sure
<SteveA> elmo: ok, we'll do that tomorrow morning.
* BradB starts tarballing up the build-config
<SteveA> BradB: what do you do to restart plone/zope ?
<BradB> cd ~zope/instances/ubuntu; bin/zopectl restart
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: added product infestation notification, normalized subject lines, and made sure that edit notifications only go out when something actually changed. (patch-701)
<elmo> 'crontab -l' if you forget ;-)
<BradB> heh heh...gragh, that sucks
<SteveA> must get zeo going on there
<SteveA> then, no need to restart the storage server so often
<SteveA> and fast restarts of the client
<BradB> ok, here we go, time to do some blowing away of data
<SteveA> argh -- same dinner almost 6 nights running -- except going out for food one night
<SteveA> I'm trying to use archism -- for example double-dashes -- in everyday sentences
<BradB> sabdfl, SteveA: any objection if i make the dogfood db launchpad_dev for the moment? that appears to be the new default.
<BradB> any other name takes longer and is more error prone
* BradB JFDI's
<SteveA> that's the other name?
<BradB> launchpad_test
<BradB> which is arse too
<SteveA> launchpad_dog?
<BradB> does it matter yet though?
<sabdfl> bradb: i'd rather the name was something distinct
<BradB> hm
<sabdfl> otherwise, a script ight just accidentally nail the wrong one.
<BradB> ok, i'll name it launchpad_dogfood then, if there's no objections
<sabdfl> perfect
* BradB has to find girlfriends named gina and nicole
<BradB> shit
<BradB> there's already a db with that name
<BradB> daf: is that you?
<BradB> sabdfl: is this the only dogfooding app on this machine, or are there other lp instances that i should care about not blowing up?
<daf> BradB: yes
<BradB> you're running off launchpad_dogfood, you mean?
<daf> no
<daf> sorry
<daf> not me
<sabdfl> bradb: yes, there is only one dogfood
<sabdfl> the rosetta alpha will migrate to that in due course
* BradB goes ahead and blows away launchpad_dogfood
<sabdfl> night - thanks for the setup bradb. email all happy?
<daf> sabdfl: the rosetta alpha code will not work with the current DB schema
<sabdfl> in due course
<sabdfl> migrate the po files
<sabdfl> and the users
<sabdfl> when you are ready
<BradB> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com
<ddaa> I'd like a launchpad Quake theme...
<ddaa> With dreadful monsters.
<ddaa> Made of gleaming metal.
<ddaa> With flashing leds all over.
<ddaa> Sparking electric blue.
<ddaa> Which tend to duplicate.
<ddaa> But have a probability to just freeze and stand still, helpless.
<ddaa> BUILDBOTS!!!
<ddaa> Rocket launcher might come in handy...
<BradB> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/doap/projects/canonical # purina puppy chow
<ddaa> BradB: 403
<BradB> ddaa: you need to install the client cert
<BradB> as seen on lp@
<ddaa> keyword?
<BradB> launchpad.p12
#launchpad 2004-11-07
<ddaa> Thanks
<BradB> or mawson
<BradB> it's amazing how far having tabs along the top of the page and portlets can make it look like you rewrote plone
* ddaa gets the page
<limi> ;)
<limi> BradB: do you use vim on OS X?
<ddaa> Where's the "Plone Powered" link? ;-P
<BradB> limi: I can, but I'm mainly an emacs guy.
<BradB> ddaa: heh heh
<SteveA> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/doap/projects/canonical/malone
<SteveA> two tabs
<SteveA> selected
<SteveA> I guess because both "projects" and "malone" are inthe url
* SteveA --> bed
<BradB> SteveA: weird. i wondered what the logic behind that was.
<daf> spiv_: woo, transactional zopeless!
<ddaa> courtesy of taxi.py
<ddaa> Now... if only I could get this import to go that far before hanging...
<lifeless> ddaa: happy taxi's ?
<ddaa> Not there yet :-(
<ddaa> I ran an import not long ago and it just hung...
<ddaa> And I have been carried away trying to debug the hang.
<lifeless> strace -p pid - bet you a beer its waiting on a futex
<ddaa> That's vague...
<lifeless> if its waiting on a futex, its the Queue
<ddaa> I'm tracing the damn thing with twisted spewage.
<carlos> night!
<ddaa> lifeless: regarding the hangs, I often have them after "launched local CVS server"
<ddaa> Just not when I want them to happen of course.
<ddaa> Is there any pyarch around there?
<lifeless> after the local CVS server launches, there is an rlog call, which can take non-trivial time.
<lifeless> there isn't any pyarch at that point.
<ddaa> That's hang situation. Not impatience. No network traffic, no cpu usage, no i/o frenzy.
<lifeless> ok, thats a concern then.
<lifeless> what does strace show you ?
<ddaa> Not stracing...
<lifeless> (when I see that, its often very low cpu, but present)
<ddaa> spewing, but it's working okay atm.
<lifeless> ok, next time it happens, attach a strace to the slave before you kill it
<ddaa> Well... I do have some background activity... so maybe I'm missing it... but that would suprise me very very much.
<ddaa> Okay.
<ddaa> If it's hung, I s'pose strace will show nothing, right?
<lifeless> strace will show the call that hung
<ddaa> Mh. Okay.
<lifeless> if you see multiple processes as the slave (old style threads), attach to them all, one will be the slave event loop, and not helpful.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: translationsPortlet implemented and inserted into SourcePackage page. Closes bug #2139 (patch-702)
<ddaa> lifeless: yeah... I have many such threads most of the time...
<dilys> Bug 2139 resolved: Rosetta link (portlet?) for Soyuz Source Package index
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2139
* ddaa is irresistibly draws to a ridiculously expensive and overpowered thinkpad t42
<lifeless> buy a hoverbook
<lifeless> goes well with the massage-keyboard
<limi> maybe tla will finally not be dog-slow if he gets a Powerbook ;)
<lifeless> he has a powerbook at the moment
<ddaa> a iBook actually... and so does bob2
<limi> ...running Linux ;)
<ddaa> we just happen to be using a real operating system :-P
<lifeless> limi: of course.
<limi> a real operating system that doesn't support the wifi card in the Powerbook :P
<ddaa> btw, you guys cannot recognize great technology. Touch keyboards are the future.
<ddaa> Well... maybe... they are maybe a bit awkyard with legacy layouts...
<ddaa> limi: my ibook does not have wifi. That's the main problem.
<ddaa> I was cheap when i bought it.
<ddaa> And get your fruit company to be a bit more tight assed when it comes to hardware specs.
<ddaa> *a bit less
<kiko> heh
<kiko> yeah
<limi> kiko: you're a vim user, right?
<kiko> limi, indeed I am.
<limi> trying to make the switch ;)
<limi> is there an autocomplete HTML mode/plugin available?
<limi> found this: http://vim.sourceforge.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=301
<limi> and put it in my .vim/ftplugins
<limi> but nothing happens :] 
<limi> <-super-newbie
<limi> kiko: and you are the kind of person that requires nick highlight too, right? ;)
<kiko> yeah, because 1000 people want to talk to me all the time in 50 differnet channels :)
<limi> hehe
<limi> I can sympathize ;)
<limi> kiko: anyway, what do you use for HTML editing in vim?
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> nothing much, to be honest. 
<limi> kiko: autocomplete and tag matching is what I need - if it supports folding, that's a bonus :)
<limi> ok
<kiko> that script looks pretty cool
<limi> kiko: but is there a special magic to activate an ftplugin?
<kiko> placing it in your /ftplugin dir should work, I suspect
<limi> kiko: it's in ~/.vim/ftplugin/ now, but I see no love - I suspect you need to put it into XML mode or something?
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> there seems to be something in html.vim there
<kiko> I can take a look a bit later and test it myself, will let you know of the results
<limi> hm, seems to be a file extension thing
<limi> works if I have an .html file
<limi> thanks :)
<kiko> yes
<kiko> you can :set filetype=html if you want to force that
<kiko> and you can set hooks in your .vimrc that do that for you
<limi> ok
<limi> kiko: and the extension -> filetype mapping is done where? need to define .pt as XML :)
<kiko> you can just set it manually in your .vimrc
<kiko> au! BufRead,BufNewFile *.ptl set filetype=python
<kiko> au! BufRead,BufNewFile *.pt set filetype=html
<limi> aha
<limi> thanks :)
<limi> there we go :)
<kiko> cool
* limi feels like a vim pro already ;)
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--1.3: now we have the name, propogate it throughout (patch-1)
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--1.3: s/baz/bazaar in file names (patch-2)
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/dists--bazaar--0: propogate name change (patch-1)
<kiko> thelove?
<lifeless> thelove beby
<lifeless> thelove
<lifeless> https://www.warthogs.hbd.com/Bazaar
* kiko raises eyebrows
<kiko> nice!
<kiko> lifeless, I can't say how much I think you rock for starting this.
<lifeless> thank you. Mark gave me the chance and the prod.
<kiko> can we get an inventory of the patches applied to it so far?
<lifeless> there aren't any yet.,
<kiko> I mean, a list with a summary of descriptions 
<lifeless> still bootstrapping the name change.
<kiko> I see. I imagine we'll keep one, or would we be using tla inventories to browse them?
<lifeless> I'm not sure what you are looking for specifically.
<lifeless> if you mean a changelog - what features are added, the changelog for it should be sufficient.
<lifeless> we will be maintaining a separate list of UI forward-compatible-breaking changes.
<kiko> that's that I'm thinking, yes.
<lifeless> have a look at the draft web page, its linked from the bazaar page.
<kiko> I saw it, yeah.
<lifeless> theres a section on it just for that.
<carlos> morning
<Kinnison> Hi carlos
<Kinnison> Right; which database should we be using on mawson?
<SteveA> elmo: ping?
<Kinnison> What's a futex and why would gzip be waiting on one?
<SteveA> a future mutex?
<ddaa> fast mutex, that's a linux kernel thing.
<SteveA> "fut alors"
<Kinnison> Right; 'cos apt-ftparchive gets stuck
<Kinnison> and this is irritating because it's why my test-run didn't finish
<ddaa> http://ds9a.nl/futex-manpages/futex2.html
<ddaa> 	The sys_futex system call provides a method for 	a program to wait for a value at a given address to change, and a 	method to wake up anyone waiting on a particular address. While the 	addresses for the same memory in separate processes may not be 	identical, the kernel maps them interally so the same memory mapped in 	different locations will correspond for 	sys_futex calls.  Futexes are typically used to 	implement the contended case of a lock in shared 
<Kinnison> So can I stop it using them since it's clearly broken?
<ddaa> I'd rather suspect a userspace bug.
<Kinnison> LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.4 .....
<Kinnison> seems to let it get on with things and run
<ddaa> evil... but good to know you can do that...
<Kinnison> aye
* Kinnison will have to try and debug whatever is causing gzip to hang
<Kinnison> but for now at least; my test run might complete
<Kinnison> apt-ftparchive is doing its job :-)
<elmo> Kinnison: upgrade your gzip
<elmo> it's #1854
<Kinnison> elmo: zhongshan
<elmo> meh
<Kinnison> :-)
<Kinnison> Done. 8000MB in 13533 archives. Took 15m48s
<Kinnison> w00 w00 w00
<elmo> fixed
<Kinnison> spankyou
* Kinnison blows the caches away and tries again
<Kinnison> elmo: zhongshan still has that odd "apt-extracttemplates /var/cache/apt/archives/libc6-dev_2.3.2.ds1-13ubuntu2_i386.deb" running
<Kinnison> well; s/running/in the process table/
<elmo> yeah, it doesn't matter
<ddaa> do you know if rsync --link-dest also detects renames?
* Kinnison takes this workrave break and goes to get dressed
<Kinnison> elmo: Could you look at zhongshan:~dsilvers/apt.conf and tell me if it looks sane to you? It built zhongshan:~dsilvers/dists/... :-)
<stub> Kinnison: launchpad_dogfood
<Kinnison> stub: gotcha
<SteveA> elmo: did you lock the wiki yet?
<elmo> yes, just managed to.  moin was being.. uncooperative
<SteveA> ok.  I've just been chatting to enrico
<SteveA> he's going to announce a plan to the docs mailing list
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: File list publishing for lucille (patch-703)
<SteveA> elmo: I need to get a little food.  After that, I'm going to set up cacheing in plone, following vika's instructions.
<SteveA> elmo: There are some changes need to the apache config.  I'll mail those to you in a bit.
<elmo> ok, cool
<SteveA> but, I suggest not to do them until I've done the plone set-up
<SteveA> the cool thing is, I don't think I even have to restart plone
<lifeless> here
<ddaa> I got the result of the taxi test.
<lifeless> good/bad/indifferent ?
<ddaa> psycopg.OperationalError, FATAL:  database "launchpad_ftest" does not exist
<lifeless> spiv_: around?
<spiv_> Yeah.
<lifeless> ^^^^^^^6
<spiv_> It's using the default value from canonical.lp.dbname.
<ddaa> I need to doublecheck some stuff, but at first I find that suprising since job loading is done from the database.
<lifeless> ddaa: taxi runs in the other process
<spiv_> ddaa: Ah... but job loading happens in the master.
<lifeless> completely decoupled
<spiv_> Including decoupled configuration of things like databases :)
<ddaa> spiv_: other threads do not use the same value of canonical.lp.dbname?
<lifeless> ddaa: threads have nothing to do with this ?
<spiv_> ddaa: What else accesses the db from the slave?  I thought the slave got its directions from the master?
<ddaa> lifeless: I do not know what has to do with what, but if the only db name used is read from the canonical.lp module, and that module is loaded only once, I cannot see how that can happen.
<lifeless> spiv_: nothing else in the slave talks to the db
<lifeless> ddaa: is the slave running from the same checkout as the master ?
<ddaa> lifeless: I do not see how it could be differently, and anyway I do not see how that would be relevant. The database name is set in master.cfg immediately after first importing launchpad.db.
<lifeless> ddaa: *thats in the master*
<ddaa> Ha...
<lifeless> *taxi is in the slave*
<ddaa> Okay.
<lifeless> get much sleep last night ? :)
<ddaa> Then how should I configure that in the slave?
<ddaa> Not much... I stayed up waaay to late looking for a french place to buy the specific lappy I'd like.
<ddaa> I'm not sure I'd get the full benefit of the garantee if I buy it from some other country...
<ddaa> Soooooo... spiv_? What's the place to set the dbname for the slave?
<spiv_> ddaa: canonical.lp.dname ;)
<ddaa> I'd very much prefer something that does not involve hardcoding settings...
<ddaa> maybe that data could be passed down the wire... e.g. in the Job?
<spiv_> Yeah, it probably could be.
<ddaa> So, if I just put an additional attribute in the job loaded from the master, it's going to be accessible by the slave? The job is pickled or something then passed on the wire?
<spiv_> Or make a sitecustomize.py that overrides it ;)
<lifeless> ddaa: no, don't pass it to the Job
<lifeless> in production that would be a PITA.
<lifeless> a sitecustomize.py is more appropriate.
<ddaa> spiv_: Please explain. I want all configuration to stay in the botmaster directory. You suggest putting an optional module there and have buildbot try to load it?
<ddaa> Mh... actually, it should be in the slave's directory...
<spiv_> echo "import canonical.lp; canonical.lp.dbname='blah'" > sitecustomize.py; PYTHONPATH=. twistd etcetc...
<ddaa> I see. I'd load that information from Job.py?
<ddaa> In runJob, maybe?
<spiv_> (When starting up, i.e. before running a program, python will try to import sitecustomize, so if you have it somewhere on your PYTHONPATH...)
<ddaa> Ha. Thanks, I was not aware of that.
<spiv_> It's a bit of hack to do it that way.
<spiv_> I think perhaps mixing configuration and code like we currently are with canonical.lp.dbname is not ideal.
<ddaa> It will be time to change it later if there is a need for other sitecustomize...
<ddaa> A spiv_: sure, canonical.lp could be modified to try to load e.g. lp_config and get hostname and dbname from there if it's available in the pythonpath.
<spiv_> Right.
<ddaa> spiv_: should not be very difficult to do...
<spiv_> But the details should be debated on the launchpad list, I think.
<spiv_> I suspect SteveA and others will have useful insights here.
<ddaa> Okay. I'll write a message to launchpad@ right now.
<spiv_> Another option would be to read them from environment variables.
<ddaa> And I'll do the sitecustomize.py thing  in the meantime.
<ddaa> [env]  yeah, I'll suggest that too.
<ddaa> But I think loading a file is simpler.
<lifeless> file please
<ddaa> Harder to get wrong.
* spiv_ nods
<SteveA> can we use ZConfigure for everything, and have one standard launchpad.conf file ?
<SteveA> and not lots of files for different purposes
* ddaa fears the Z ;-)
<spiv_> SteveA: That'd be great if every upstream package we used (e.g. Twisted, Buildbot) already used ZConfigure :)
<spiv_> But unfortunately that's not the case.  Buildbot's config stuff is a bit of a mess, too.
<SteveA> why can't *we* use ZConfigure?
<SteveA> we're not using any of these tools in the raw.  Can't we write our own script to start buildbot using our own config?
<spiv_> Buildbot's a nasty case, config-wise.  It really is a bit of mess that I wouldn't want to touch without a couple of days to properly fix it.
<spiv_> (Maybe it's been fixed in upstream SVN, though..?)
<spiv_> Are there any good docs on ZConfigure, btw?
<SteveA> yes
<SteveA> wonderful docs
<lifeless> I'm perfectly happy with customised lp.__init__
* SteveA -> food
<lifeless> and if we spend more than 10 minutes fixing it, we've already blown the cost of customising two installs 5 times over
<spiv_> lifeless: Which is my point stated much more directly :)
* lifeless looks at the scrollback.
<lifeless> 2149-2220
<lifeless> thats 30 minutes
* lifeless declares this discussion over. don't fix it.
<spiv_> :)
<spiv_> SteveA: Sorry, I was fishing for a hint as to their location, rather than their existence :)
<Kinnison> SteveA: are we having a meeting; or can I go to the post office; bank; etc. ?
<stub> ddaa: The launchpad_ftest database won't exist atm. unless you use a test harness that sets it up and tears it down, such as canonical.launchpad.ftests.harness
<ddaa> stub: you are referring to my post on launchpad@?
<stub> I'm working on a branch making this saner atm
* stub is referring to irc a few minutes ago
<Kinnison> On mawson are we changing lib/canonical/lp/__init__.py to say launchpad_dogfood instead?
<ddaa> I do not want to use launchpad_ftest
<ddaa> I want to use a persistent database for development purpose. aka launchpad_dev.
<stub> oh... sorry. I have test suites on my mind :-)
<stub> Yes - canonical.lp.__init__.py should not have launchpad_ftests in there.
<ddaa> It's a sane default to have.
<ddaa> esp. if the db does not exist!
* Kinnison updates that file then
<stub> Hmm... maybe. The branch I'm working on currently sets it to whatever is specified in the LP_DBNAME environment variable, or launchpad_dev if it isn't set. I'm currently bogged down in repairing unit tests though
<ddaa> Actually, a sane default would probably be something that cause a failure if not overriden... but that's still another issue.
<BradB> I would have changed that if it were referencing launchpad_dev, like the Makefile and ZCML were. :)
* ddaa tries hard to keep only one copy of every tree to minimize maintenance.
<elmo> BradB: if we're making $anotherdomain.$tld, can we use one of the existing plones, or do we need a third instance?
<ddaa> I love "aba change-version", it's really a basic building block for my methods.
<lifeless> ddaa: raw switch
<ddaa> Will switch ;-) as soon as I have cleared up the "asap" stuff.
<stub> ddaa: I think I'll try that (dbname=None unless overridden in lp/__init__.py) and see what happens
<ddaa> stub: => launchpad@
* SteveA returns
<SteveA> Kinnison: we'll be having a meeting.  If you want to go to the I guess you can report first
<Kinnison> SteveA: Okay; cool
* Kinnison is on the phone to the insurance broker right now; so I'll say the moment I can type lots
<BradB> elmo: I'd make another instance.
<stub> ddaa: Hehe... you chose exactly the same env variable I did (or did that patch get to rocketfuel?) :-)
<ddaa> stub: maybe that's just because it's the obvious name?
<elmo> BradB: meh.  how would I make another instance?  I guess I can just copy most of it, but what about Data.fs ?
<BradB> bin/mkzopeinstance.py
<carlos> spiv_: is normal that the default database for zopeless is dbname = "launchpad_ftest" ?
<BradB> elmo: Is this intended to be the same site just with a different name?
<elmo> BradB: no, different site
<SteveA> hello.  welcome to this week's launchpad meeting.
<BradB> Yeah, so bin/mkzopeinstance.py
<SteveA> all present, please say "aye!"
<BradB> aye!
<debonzi> aye
<stub> eye
<lifeless> eieieio
<SteveA> (old macdonald had a sheep, e i e i o) ?
<lifeless> and on that sheep there was a farm, eieio
<SteveA> carlos: ?
<SteveA> daf sends apologies
<ddaa> yodeleitooooo
<SteveA> spiv_: ?
<Kinnison> aye
<SteveA> to start with, a couple of announcements.
<SteveA> I'm off on vacation from tomorrow, back on 8th
<SteveA> Mark is away at a conference in Germany, and then in South Africa, back on 8th
<lifeless> #1 & #2 gone... 
<SteveA> Stuart has agreed to be the head launchpad dude until then.
<SteveA> Let's agree on the time and date of next week's launchpad meeting now,
<carlos> SteveA: yes
<carlos> I'm here
<SteveA> hi carlos
<SteveA> How about Wednesday, 1230 UTC? 
<Kinnison> sounds good
<BradB> sure
<carlos> ok
<SteveA> launchpad-brazil ?
<debonzi> no problem for me
<SteveA> stub: ?
<ddaa> lifeless: infoImporter and infoUpdater changes sent to pqm.
<stub> I can do that, although earlier is good if it doesn't put brazil out.
<debonzi> cprov is comming in some minutes but I think is not a problem to him to
<lifeless> ddaa: great
<SteveA> debonzi: 1200 ?
<SteveA> would 1200 be okay instead of 1230?
<debonzi> SteveA, ok too..
<ddaa> lifeless: the infoUpdater worksforme, but I have not actually tested that it did not change jobs that are not in the "unassigned" product. But that's what the code should do.
<SteveA> ok, let's so 1200
<lifeless> ok, warning heard
<lifeless> lets not confuse the lunchbox guys by interrupting too much.
<ddaa> tell me if you want additional "interactive python" support.
<SteveA> next, summary of the last meeting
<carlos> SteveA: perhaps it's too early for daf
<SteveA> it's on my todo list -- and I still haven't to-done :-/
<ddaa> <interrupt>What's the right place to talk then?</interrupt>
<SteveA> carlos: daf isn't here.  so, he doesn't get a say :-p
<carlos> ok ;-)
<SteveA> hi Ki
<SteveA> hi kiko
<kiko> hello SteveA
<lifeless> ddaa: private chat to me I guess
<Kinnison> SteveA: 1200 is okay by me
<SteveA> Kinnison: are you okay to talk yet?
<Kinnison> yep
<SteveA> ok.  before we start, the theme of this meeting is "dogfood"
<Kinnison> Right
<lifeless> mmmm
<Kinnison> To that end; my primary concern is getting the librarian going on mawson
<kiko> can it also be "soyuz is protected in an SEP field"? :)
<Kinnison> I'm about 20 minutes off completing that :-)
<SteveA> go for it, Kinnison
<Kinnison> Okay; so things I know about for dogfooding on mawson...
<Kinnison> librarian is needed -- I'm working on that now
<Kinnison> gina -- I've got a patch floating for the build stuff; as soon as I'm told she can import against the current schema I'll polish it and commit it
<Kinnison> Getting lucille to publish the contents of the dogfood db will take a little more work
<Kinnison> I now have a completely published archive successfully on zhongshan
<Kinnison> so I need to script the publishing process and then I'll be in a position to start the publishing on mawson
<Kinnison> But that kinda wanders back into my expected lucille plan really
<Kinnison> If anyone wants me to do anything else for mawson in the short-term; can you say *NOW* please?
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: transactional infoImporter, tweak infoUpdater for production use (patch-704)
<Kinnison> dilys: thanks babe.
<Kinnison> SteveA: right; that's about it wrt. dogfood then
<Kinnison> SteveA: in more general terms; my plans for lucille for the coming week are...
<Kinnison> 1. Get the lucilleconfig columns populated and get the canonical.lucille.Publisher class generating apt.conf files for apt-ftparchive
<Kinnison> 2. Design the version domination algorithm (mostly stealing from katie if elmo will let me)
<BradB> Kinnison: stub probably wants to automate the code upgrade/db upgrade/data migration stuff on mawson.
<Kinnison> 3. Get domination stuff.
<Kinnison> BradB: for the most part; that shouldn't affect me much
<Kinnison> oh and somewhere in there I need to split launchpad/{database,interfaces}/publishing.py into more manageable chunks and get my pending patch cleaned up to be integrated
<Kinnison> But that shoudl be it.
<Kinnison> phew.
<kiko> splitting up publishing would be appreciated, cool
<SteveA> domination is what was called overrides?
<Kinnison> SteveA: No
* Kinnison will add 'domination' to the glossary
<Kinnison> Domination is the process by which the new version of a package ousts the older version from the archive
<Kinnison> This is related to it having been built cleanly on all architectures etc.
* Kinnison needs to chat with elmo about this
<kiko> really?
<kiko> I never heard that term. and what do you mean by ousts? becomes the new "current"?
<Kinnison> kiko: Yes; that's what I mean
<kiko> I see. 
<Kinnison> kiko: I haven't used the term before; so you won't have heard it yet :-)
<kiko> well, one thing that does happen is different versions of current for different architectures. does that fit in with your reasoning?
<Kinnison> Yes
<Kinnison> It's all to do with the Pending,Published,Superceded,PendingRemoval state machine in the publishing tables
<kiko> I was just lead off by your phrase "on all architectures". 
<kiko> yeah.
<Kinnison> But I fear we're getting off-topic here :-)
<SteveA> BradB: you've been forging ahead with the set-up on mawson.  Can you talk a bit about that, what people need to do, and what is still to be done?
<BradB> hm
<BradB> I put a new code drop on mawson late yesterday
<BradB> elmo needed to do something things for some people, and I think that's mostly (if not all) done.
<BradB> stub (and whoever else) need to come up with the policy for how we're going to update the code and update the db schema and do data migration
<BradB> some discussion was started on lp@ about this, but last i checked, no firm decision reached
<cprov> sorry, I'm late
<BradB> not sure if mark wants a hand in that
<SteveA> hi cprov
<BradB> so, here's the problem:
<stub> data migration and db schema upgrades should be no problem - we went through the issues at oxford. I just need to write some fairly minor code.
<SteveA> we need to decide and get stuff working before mark gets back
<BradB> oh, ok
<BradB> indeed
<BradB> so yeah, for us, the data on the dogfood server is "production" data (...goes to get link...)
<cprov> hi, steve... did I miss something important ? (debonzi is doing a report ...)
<BradB> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/doap/projects/canonical
<SteveA> cprov: not really.  main thing is "dogfood", and making sure we can get there soon
<BradB> If you get a 403, you need to install the client cert.
<Kinnison> Where do we get the cert from?
<BradB> It was mailed to lp@
<BradB> from elmo, with love
<cprov> SteveA: ok
* Kinnison looks for it
<BradB> launchpad.p12
<BradB> and um, what else
<BradB> oh, all bugs are to be filed in malone now
<BradB> SteveA: ^ for packages too?
<SteveA> is malone running and ready to go?
<BradB> it's on there, yes.
<stub> We appear to have the sample data loaded. Is that a good thing?
<BradB> is it "stable" yet? no. but we still want to start asap.
<BradB> stub: I don't think it's a bad thing.
<Kinnison> BradB: I've imported the cert; but I still 403
<BradB> stub: If it needs to be init'd in some other way (and it does), I don't know how to do it.
<carlos> Kinnison: restart your browser
<carlos> Kinnison: I had that problem and the restart worked
<Kinnison> carlos: oh
<Kinnison> carlos: you tock
<Kinnison> carlos: you rock too
<carlos> :-P
<BradB> and i guess the one other thing is that it'd be nice if we could run Launchpad with bin/launchpadctl {start,stop,restart}, for which I've filed a bug.
<stub> I suspect we want the sample data, if for no other reason all our accounts are in there.
<BradB> I'm not in that sample data, last I checked.
<BradB> Maybe I should add me. :)
<carlos> stub: perhaps it's better don't use sample data and create the accounts with the script we have for that...
<kiko> neither am I IIRC
<BradB> anything else people need to know about the mawson deployment/
<kiko> and I would rather not use sample data, I think
<BradB> stub: Oh, I haven't tested your mail thing on there yet...not sure how that works "out of the box."
<stub> ok. I'll rebuild launchpad_dogfood (?) with an empty schema, in which case we need to create accounts for everyone.
<BradB> SteveA: Are we reporting all package bugs in Malone now too then?
<BradB> stub: yes, launchpad_dogfood
<SteveA> what do you mean by "package bugs" ?
<BradB> Oh, and launchpad.u.c is the *only* dogfood app running on mawson. Rosetta alpha is intended to migrate to that instance as well.
<BradB> SteveA: bugs in ubuntu source packages
<BradB> afterall, we can use malone to report malone bugs, but it's not really meant for that.
<stub> BradB: I think the email delivery is solid and dogfoodable if the nofications now have valid to and cc's being set (it was still hardcoded to you when I last played with it)
<SteveA> I think that's mdz's call
<carlos> BradB: will that dogfood database preserved until the final release?
<BradB> carlos: yes, it's definitely not intended to be blown away from today. :)
<stub> BradB: Might be worth leaving it off though if we arn't sure - don't want to have forgotten a hardcoded 'owned=1' and spam poor Mark :-)
<carlos> BradB: then it will be Rosetta beta :-)
<carlos> I mean, we will move with the beta release
<BradB> stub: yeah, that's a bug I'll have to fix soonish (and it's a bug that I don't think is only limited to Malone.)
<Kinnison> SteveA: if I head off to the post office etc now; can you send a meeting summary to me by email?
<SteveA> Kinnison: sure -- well, I can at least manage the verbatim log.
<SteveA> maybe even a summary
<Kinnison> heh
<Kinnison> cool
* SteveA pings elmo
* Kinnison -> post office and bank before they close
* lifeless pings stevea
<SteveA> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> ->bazaar ?
<SteveA> carlos: what's been happening with rosetta.  you did a bug triage of all the open bugs.
<carlos> SteveA: yes
<carlos> we added times when it was possible
<SteveA> what important things are left?
<carlos> added missing tasks
<SteveA> do you have an idea now of when you'll be able to start a rosetta beta?
<carlos> at this moment I think we have three main bugs to move to a beta (so it works, but there will not be all features yet)
<carlos> I mean, if it's needed
<carlos> but following the plan we have 19 bugs left
<SteveA> and how much time for the three main bugs, in total?
<carlos> but as I said "critical", about 3 bugs
<cprov> carlos: are you using the Gina/Nicole dump ? Any remarks ?
<carlos> I hope I will be able to fix two bugs today
<carlos> the later is the bigger and implies the use of cprov's data
<carlos> cprov: not yet
<carlos> SteveA: I forgot one, there are  4 critical bugs/tasks
<kiko> carlos, debonzi wrote a pretty neat little portlet for rosetta
<carlos> the one to export the user data and import it into the new dogfood database
<carlos> SteveA: but I think we should try to fix all bugs marked as blocking the beta release
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=1965
<carlos> kiko: URL?
<kiko> debonzi?
<carlos> or is not yet ready?
<debonzi> kiko, 
<kiko> IIRC it's nor PQM-merged, is it debonzi?>
<debonzi> kiko, yes.. the portlet is in rocketfuel
<kiko> neat
<kiko> carlos, look at any source package in soyuz (with translations and product/project association, which means with a full DB I believe)
<SteveA> carlos: I'll get you information on how to do i18n on launchpad later today
<SteveA> then you can start using rosetta to translate rosetta
<carlos> SteveA: perfect
<carlos> thanks
<BradB> SteveA: i have one other thing to mention about df malone and mdz, when you're ready
<carlos> kiko: ok, I will take a look later today
<kiko> neat
<SteveA> BradB: yep
<BradB> SteveA: yesterday mark wanted to walk mdz through malone, but unfortunately the server wasn't up and running quite in time.
<BradB> SteveA: it will be really valuable for mdz to see it, because we want it to be used for source package bugs asap.
<BradB> SteveA: so if it can be arranged to have someone else walk him through it, that would be good.
<SteveA> can you walk him through it?
<BradB> sure
<SteveA> ok, please arrange this with mdz
<SteveA> then, mdz can make the call as to if they can start using it
<carlos> BradB, SteveA: When will we start using malone for launchpad's bugs?
<stub> Our first audience is ourselves. Warthogs and ubuntu stuff follows.
<SteveA> you'll need to make sure mdz understands what data we're keeping and what we're not
<BradB> SteveA: sounds good
<kiko> I was going to say what stub said, we should move to malone before mdz does
<BradB> carlos: now, i think
<carlos> ol
<carlos> ok
<carlos> :-)
<BradB> carlos: and if anything doesn't work correctly, we'll just have to fix it quickly so that it can be. :)
<carlos> :-P
<BradB> stub, kiko, SteveA: I have to admit, we may want to "harden" Malone a bit more before we go too crazy demoing it elsewhere, but Mark was ready to jump in last night. :P
<stub> regarding that.... we want to avoid having to rollback a dogfood update unless there is a really fatal problem.
<carlos> how are we going to handle the logins? we (rosetta) are having problems with the current authentication schema:
<carlos> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2076
<SteveA> let's hear from launchpad-brazil about soyuz dogfooding
<kiko> that's us
<kiko> we're currently approaching the status where everything we touch is surrounded by an SEP field
<SteveA> in non-douglass-adams-english ?
<kiko> Someone Else's Problem 
<kiko> from now on it's going to be a lot harder to move forward with soyuz without some guidance
<kiko> we have one last thing to improve which is significant, which is the per-developer package listing
<kiko> we want to include as much of packages.qa's features there without making blood come out of users' eyes
<kiko> but then there's mainly polish to be done because we are halted on main bits that are not in our hands currently
<kiko> buildbot and katie's successor are probably the main blockers (and the db schema changes that come with them)
<kiko> we've started picking up the malone/rosetta integration bits because they were bothering us
<kiko> but buildbot and katie2 (what's her name?) are a lot more involved and require some Decisions From Above
<kiko> I believe lucille, buildbot and katie2 integration block dogfooding, to be honest, because if you can't track package uploads, approvals and builds, then, well..
<kiko> have I said enough already? I can go on for a bit more if people like (but you know that already <wink>)
<SteveA> BradB, stub: sabdfl suggests to start with a clean-ish database
<kiko> ta
<stub> So these decisions from above - is this blocked until Mark can look at the issue, or do you just need feedback or work from the buildbot and katie2 people?
<stub> cleanish... technical term?
<kiko> there's some design work and "interfaces" that need to be done. I think it requires mark-love
<SteveA> I'll be calling Mark in 30 minutes.
<SteveA> Are there any issues that need mark's input that I can ask him about?
<kiko> be sure to communicate our quandary with him
<kiko> or perhaps tell him I'd like to talk to him today as well
<BradB> SteveA: when he wants to have warthogs using malone
<SteveA> whats' the quandry (I was talking with mark on the phone)
<kiko> SteveA, do you have scrollback?
<BradB> SteveA: it'd be nice if we could just have a few warthogs using it at first.
<SteveA> kiko: yep.  can you give me the 10 word summary?
<kiko> soyuz is stuck?
<SteveA> aren't you going to get feedback from warthogs when they start using it?
<kiko> I don't believe this has to do with end-users -- see my comments.
<kiko> we're blocked by platform integration issues
<SteveA> BradB: mark will walk mdz though it tonight, 8UCT.  can you be there?
<BradB> SteveA: yep
<SteveA> and be sure malone is shiny and working first
<BradB> ok
<SteveA> kiko: mark will give you a call
<kiko> SteveA, thanks, I'll be here the whole day just waiting
<BradB> stub: Are you going to add me (and whomever else) to the users in launchpad_dogfood, or should I just add myself?
<stub> I'm not actually sure of the current way of creating users - last time it was a script in lib/rosetta/scripts
<BradB> daf, carlos: how do i add myself as a user?
<SteveA> kiko: I expect he
<SteveA> kiko: I expect mark will call you nowish
<carlos> BradB: we have a script at lib/canonical/rosetta/scripts/createuser.py
<carlos> BradB: not sure if it will work after all database changes, please tell me if you have any problem
* BradB wonders how that ended up there :)
<carlos> it has a --help argument
<carlos> BradB: because we were the firsts :-P
<SteveA> can we move it somewhere better?
<carlos> sure
<SteveA> stub:  how's the authenticated bugzilla thing going?
<carlos> BradB: if you don't give it a password it will generate one for you
<carlos> SteveA: any suggestion about where should we move this kind of tools?
<stub> SteveA: Havn't looked at that. Got bogged down in crud today.
<kiko> nick kiko-fud
<SteveA> BradB, stub: when I can start filing new bugs for launchpad in malone?
<BradB> SteveA: I need to take a look through it now (which I'm in the middle of doing) to see what needs fixing.
<stub> I suspect it is ready to go as soon as I clear out the database
<BradB> stub: As I mentioned on the ML, I think there's no way in heck we'll be able to do daily updates of the dogfood server though. :)
<BradB> (just a random thought about qa on mawson)
<SteveA> when it is ready, send an email to the launchpad list saying that all new launchpad bugs are to be filed in malone, and give some URLs to use.
<BradB> sure, i'll do that
* BradB notes shiny tla bash completion
* carlos needs to install it...
<stub> Hmm... If I pull a copy of the production database onto dogfood it should be fairly nicely initialized
<BradB> SteveA: the thing to be noted is that using Malone to handle Launchpad bugs is a pretty ugly hack
<BradB> stub: Same schema?
<stub> After I've run the patches it will be
<BradB> stub: as long as no data migration is needed, it should be straightforward, I guess
<BradB> SteveA: e.g. are rosetta, malone, and soyuz "source packages"? :)
<stub> BradB: Not a problem - its exactly the same as upgrading the production system
<SteveA> BradB: yep -- unreleased source packages
<kiko> thanks SteveA
<kiko> so BradB
<kiko> mark suggested we get some help on your side testing and polishing malone
<kiko> would you be interested in an extra pair or two of hands?
<BradB> kiko: sure
<kiko> in the afternoon, let's talk a bit then about what you feel could be valuable
<kiko> apart from random using and code reviewing
<BradB> ok
<kiko> Kinnison?
<ddaa> spiv_: duh, the strports patch breaks...
<BradB> dogfood going down momentarily...
<kiko> neat.
<stub> I've got a database to drop in place of launchpad_dogfood - can I bounce it, or do you need to Brad?
<spiv_> ddaa: Hmm :/
<ddaa> for some reason the slave does not seem to be able to shake hands with the botmaster when I use a strport to create the slavePort service too. I'm testing that.
<BradB> elmo: IOError: [Errno 13]  Permission denied: '/var/tmp/launchpad_mailqueue/tmp/1098888772.20818.rosetta' when trying to send mail from dogfood
<stub> BradB: That queue is configured in package-includes/mail-configure-normal.zcml if the default won't work on mawson
<ddaa> oops
<ddaa> spiv_: nm, thanks for listening.
<BradB> stub: the only data we have to keep is https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/doap/projects/canonical and the three projects listed therein
<ddaa> programmers editors should _not_ have a copy-paste feature!
<BradB> if you blow it away, it'd be nice if you could readd it (which I've already done once) so that i can continue to make sure that Malone doesn't suck by the time Mark demos it
* BradB changes queue config
<BradB> what's with screen not understanding my backspace key, sheesh
<spiv_> ddaa: No problem :)
<stub> BradB: Don't suppose you have the SQL lying around :-)
<BradB> nah, I just save as'd and copied and pasted
<BradB> 4 pages
* BradB restarts df one more time
<BradB> shit, how do i make a mail dir folder again?
<BradB> i thought there was a makemaildir command or something
<BradB> mkdir -p q/cur q/old q/new?
<carlos> BradB: if it's a maildir controlled by postfix, just send an email and it will create it as it should be
<BradB> i have no idea how to do that. zope won't start because foo isn't a maildir folder
<BradB> i don't know how to send a mail from the cmd line and say "use foo as the queue"
<SteveA> mgedmin is on #zope3-dev
<BradB> there's a command called makemaildir, but mawson doesn't have it
<SteveA> maybe ask on there
<SteveA> so is alga
<carlos> BradB: then create cur, new, tmp inside the directory, it should be enough...
<BradB> ah, tmp, not old
* SteveA -> lunch
<carlos> SteveA: is the meeting over then?
<stub> BradB: Why does zope want a maildir folder? It just just wants somewhere it can create a queue directory
<SteveA> carlos: yes I guess so :-)
<SteveA> sorry, it was over a while ago
<carlos> ok, thanks :-)
<SteveA> I forgot to say
<BradB> carlos: thanks, that worked
* BradB avoids bugging the maildir experts at PoV
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar-debian--debian--1.0: adjust for the name change tla -> baz. dont merge this changeset to a tla branch (patch-1)
<kiko> go lifeless go
<BradB> stub: dunno dude, but that's what the error message said queuePath needs to be
<stub> Wierd - If I saw that when I was putting it together, I've totally forgotten about it :-/
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar--devo--1.0: adjust for the name change tla -> baz by making the libfoo includes dir name agnostic. dont merge this changeset to a tla branch without removing the name change aspect (patch-1)
<carlos> dudes, I thought "thelove" was just a joke X-)
* ddaa gives a penalty card to lifeless for totally abusing the Summary.
* lifeless holds up the literate programming mirror
<stub> :-)
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/buildbot--devel--0: use strports for more flexible configuration (patch-65)
<ddaa> ha... at last.
<ddaa> spiv_: you are free to merge into rf again.
<BradB> kiko: It's 11:18 where you are right now, right? Perhaps we could do the Malone discussion at 13:30.
<kiko> I need about 2h, and it's now 12:18 here 
<kiko> sounds okay
<BradB> ok, cool
<stub> BradB: Can I try swapping the database now? I need to shutdown the df server to do it and don't know if I can or the preferred way
<Kinnison> I've now got a shell script for starting the librarian
<BradB> stub: As long as you're confident that the data is enough to bootstrap df (and you'll be able to readd the canonical project), then yes, go for it.
<cprov> Kinnison: fantastic ! can u send me 
<Kinnison> cprov: can what where who?
<stub> And how do I do it?
<kiko> Kinnison, the shell script?
<cprov> Kinnison: script to run/start librarian :P
<BradB> load the db? no idea, you'd know more than me about how to do that, i would have thought.
<BradB> i can shutdown the server though right now, if you're ready
<Kinnison> /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/librarian/run-librarian.sh on mawson :-)
<stub> No - stop and start the server :-)
<BradB> stub: ready for me to stop it then?
* cprov cprov -> lunch
<stub> Yup
<BradB> stub: stopped. go nuts.
<stub> BradB: Ok - that should be fine.
* BradB restarts
<stub> I've still got the old db btw if it isn't suitable for demo with the prod data loaded
<Kinnison> Whoever prods about with the db should make damned sure that the librarian and the db are kept in sync
<BradB> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1 hah hah hah
<BradB> stub: where the /heck/ did that bug come from? :)
<stub> An old joke of Marks from before I was on board... I'd forgotten about it. That will keep Mark happy :-)
<BradB> heheh
* BradB does more Malone sanity checking
* stub sets up launchpad_dogfood backups
<carlos> BradB: What should we do to get our account in launchad?
<carlos> O:-)
<BradB> carlos: It should already be in there.
<carlos> BradB: the website one?
<BradB> yes
<carlos> because my account from the sample data fails
<carlos> ok
<BradB> This is Real Data.
<stub> Kinnison: You will need to email the admins about getting the Librarian data baked up
* carlos searchs for the mail about my we account...
<Kinnison> stub: I assume you're going to be doing dumps of the db to be backed up?
<stub> Yup - just doing the cron jobs now
<Kinnison> stub: along with that dump; put a tar of the librarian root?
<Kinnison> (although that's 16 gigs a pop)
<BradB> stub: when do we get all the source packages and products imported?
<BradB> stub: I would think that would be really, really nice for when mark demoes it to mdz
<carlos> BradB: you forgot to import languages.sql
<stub> When someone runs the magic script? That is Katie isn't it?
<BradB> carlos: I didn't forget anything, that's stub's job. :)
<stub> carlos: that would be me - I mirrored the production database.
<carlos> :-P
<carlos> stub: could you do it, please?
<stub> Which obviously doesn't have the languages installed...
<carlos> Rosetta is useless without it
<BradB> elmo, Kinnison: are you guys the ones to ask for getting packages and products imported into dogfood?
<Kinnison> it needs gina IIRC
<stub> carlos: done
<Kinnison> Which needs someone to tell me that gina can do the new schema; whereupon I'll commit my build merges
<carlos> stub: thanks
<BradB> cprov: ^?
* BradB hopes to have this stuff in within the next 30 mins or so
<BradB> I'll manually add source packages for malone, rosetta and soyuz right now, so that we can report bugs against those systems.
<Kinnison> Do we need to ask you to create users for us?
<BradB> Kinnison: yes, where you == stub.
<Kinnison> BradB: cunning
<BradB> :P
<Kinnison> stub: Can I have a user in dogfood please?
<stub> Anyone with access to the launchpad user should be able to run rosetta/scripts/createuser.py
<BradB> Kinnison: you should already have one
<Kinnison> oh right
* Kinnison looks
<Kinnison> So I do
<Kinnison> I wonder what my password is
<stub> It is a mirror of the production database  - there are accounts there, but I don't know if the passwords are sane
<BradB> Kinnison: yep, you're already in there, i can see
<Kinnison> yay; the forgotten password page doesn't work though
<BradB> Kinnison: use the real one for now then
<BradB> (real fp page, that is)
<BradB> er, no, that won't work
<Kinnison> eh?
<BradB> because fp resets your pw
<BradB> Kinnison: off the ul.org site, i meant
<BradB> but anyway, it won't work :)
* Kinnison discovers how to create an encrypted pass
* Kinnison will update via SQL :-)
<BradB> heh
<stub> Our first bit of successful dogfooding - well done :-)
<BradB> stub: What's the correct way to add a source package called "malone" to LP? I'm not sure what namespaces (e.g. distro) to create, etc. to make that appear in the system in a sane way.
<Kinnison> w00p w00p; logged in :-)
<BradB> A distro called Launchpad maybe?
<stub> You need a soyuz person me thinks
<BradB> cprov: ping
<BradB> kiko-fud: ping
<Kinnison> the CSS is so fucked
<Kinnison> I have bits of text changing colour as I move my mouse around
<BradB> cool
<dilys> Merge to thelove@canonical.com/bazaar--devo--1.0: s/tla/NAME in the obvious parts of the help, defining NAME as baz (patch-2)
<stub> whip it good
<BradB> darn, I really need at least a couple source packages and a couple products/product releases in LP before I can do anything useful. 
* BradB waits for kiko-fud or cprov to show up
<stub> BradB: distro is nullable, so I suspect you can just create a row in the Sourcepackage table for it with a corresponding entry in the SourcepackageName table.
* BradB gives it a try
<BradB> spiv_: ping
<spiv_> Pong.
<BradB> er, wait, maybe not...
<BradB> here's the problem:
<stub> Kinnison: I'm just emailing admins@ about bakups - have you done librarian, or can you give me a directory name and I'll add it to the same email?
<BradB> i need products and product releases in malone, so that mark can usefully demo features to mdz that require those
<Kinnison> stub: /srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/librarian/ is where it'll be
<BradB> spiv_: i was going to ask you to add products and product releases for "malone", "soyuz", and "rosetta", but that probably doesn't make sense.
<Kinnison> If we're done fiddling the db then I'll start the librarian running
<stub> Kinnison: We should backup the whole thing? Or is there a data directory?
<BradB> since having them as sp's should be enough...but in any case, we need some products/product releases in there asap, because the demo's in 2h 45m, and I've still got to test with some realish data.
<spiv_> Hmm.
<stub> I'm done fiddling - unless Brad has a need to dump the database?
<Kinnison> stub: the whole thing *is* the data dir :-)
<stub> oic
<stub> :-)
<Kinnison> stub: the metadata is stored in the db :-)
<stub> I assumed the source code was in there, but of course that is in lib/canonical/librarian :-)
* Kinnison grins
<BradB> spiv_: where do product/product releases come from?
<BradB> i.e. from where would that data be imported, or using which scripts?
<spiv_> The arch guys have set up some of that for their production importd.
<spiv_> I'll see if there's any useful production data we can snarf for this...
<BradB> spiv_: can you arrange to have that imported into launchpad_dogfood on mawson asap, if possible?
<spiv_> The production db has some products, but no product releases.
<Kinnison> So I can start the librarian then?
<stub> Kinnison: Yup
<BradB> spiv_: can i leave it to you to somehow get sane products and product releases in there in the next 30 mins or so?
<spiv_> Ok.
<BradB> thanks
<BradB> Kinnison: what does the librarian do? i know it has something to do with serving up packages, but i'm not totally clear (does it have anything to do with getting sp's and spr's into lp_df by any chance?)
<Kinnison> it's running now :-)
* Kinnison workraves; brb
<stub> BradB: It stores all our binaries basically
<BradB> stub: not spr's?
<stub> BradB: Malone will want to store email attachments in there.
<stub> spr?
<BradB> source package release
<stub> tarballs, iso images, whatever. All binaries and documents that don't need to live in the database.
<Kinnison> basically anything where you would say "Hmm, I can't store that much data in a column" you'd use the librarian
<stub> You just say 'store this file and give me an id' or 'give me the url for this file' (well.. that second is a todo...). 
<BradB> ah, that's what i thought
<Kinnison> We're fairly close to being able to do the url thing
<BradB> so it makes it easy to go from sqlobjects to the files related to them, presumably.
<Kinnison> So gina stores the debs, tarballs etc in the librarian and lucille pulls them out again for example
<BradB> woo
<Kinnison> Well, we can go from sqlobjects to an ID; I'll try and finish the bits that will allow us to go from a LibraryFileAlias instance to a URL to a file or to the file itself
<BradB> sounds cool
<Kinnison> But that is not even on my "next week's work" radar currently
<Kinnison> although if I get bored with lucille in the short-term I might take a knuthian and do it
<stub> ok - bed time for me. Am I needed for anything else?
<Kinnison> not afaict
<ddaa> lifeless: job names _cannot_ contain spaces.
<Kinnison> stub: what timezone are you in?
<carlos> spiv_: can we use "... AND EXISTS (nested query)" inside the select method of a sqlobject?
<BradB> stub: looks good, thanks
<BradB> carlos: it's just a WHERE clause...
<ddaa> lifeless: your popen-based spawns will just blow up when given a name with spaces.
<carlos> BradB: I suppose that's a yes :-P
<carlos> thanks
<BradB> no prob
<ddaa> exceptions.RuntimeError: cvs -d /home/david/canonical/launchpad/botmaster/slave/buildbot-jobs/vte HEAD import.job/vte@arch.ubuntu.com/vte--MAIN--0/cvs_temp_repo init failed (256)
<ddaa> 	Unknown command: `HEAD'
<BradB> anyone have kiko's phone number?
* ddaa finds several uses of popen and system in launchpad/lib...
<ddaa> These commands are so totally unsafe...
<BradB> ddaa: The commands are safe, as long as the programmers wrote safe code.
<lifeless> ddaa: hah. oops.
<ddaa> You can be pretty sure that 95% of the time, people using these commands will not do the quoting correctly.
<ddaa> And 5% of safe code is generous imho.
<ddaa> lifeless: I'll fix it.
<ddaa> Not sure how, but I'll do it.
<BradB> this is why Python really needs a taint mode. :)
<lifeless> the web page ui is freaking you out that much ?
<ddaa> That's why people using these functions needs to be beaten on the public place!
<BradB> spiv_: how's things coming with the product imports?
<ddaa> lifeless: yes, it's freaking me out. With wrapping I can fit at least 12 jobs in a screen width. Without I can fit something like 4 jobs.
* BradB really wants the demo to kick some ass
<ddaa> It's _really_ annoying.
<lifeless> why do you need jobs on the screen at once ?
<ddaa> to monitor progress.
<spiv_> BradB: There's now a release each for Soyuz, Rosetta and Malone in there.
<lifeless> 4 jobs at once will thrash your poor little laptop anyway.
<ddaa> I'm on a desktop.
<lifeless> buildbot won't run more than 10 at once
<ddaa> And the jobs i am running are not always contiguous in the table.
<lifeless> just use the pick-list.
<BradB> spiv_: right on, thanks dude
<lifeless> ctrl-click and select the ones you want
<ddaa> ?
<lifeless> also, the stats page is what I use, which is more compact still
* BradB fixes a bug in adding bug watches
<lifeless> ddaa: go to /
<lifeless> there is a link to 'select jobs'
<lifeless> should help you
<lifeless> I'm not completly tracking though, so I'm going crash.
<ddaa> Anyway, thatNo, there is not.
<ddaa> Bah.
<lifeless> right now though, the UI should be ____bottom______ of your list.
<ddaa> Anyway, that bug needs fixing, doesn't it?
<lifeless> add it to bugzilla.
* ddaa grinds teeth
<lifeless> short term, trap them in the job loading code in canonical.arch.
<lifeless> because that would be bad to be bitten by.
<lifeless> and yes, we'll want to fix it eventually. But we have to triage: not all bugs are equal.
<lifeless> the hangs, for instance, are /much more/ severe because we can't work around them, cannot filter them, cannot deal with them.
<ddaa> Okay. So you want to s/ /\ / in job names or something?
<ddaa> s/ /-/
<ddaa> ?
<lifeless> that would be fine
<ddaa> first or second?
<ddaa> second...
<ddaa> less hacky
<ddaa> less evil
<lifeless> or s/[ ;/\\${}()] /_/
<ddaa> add in [] *?
<lifeless> yeah, you see where I'm going
<ddaa> and '"
<ddaa> okay
<lifeless> night. my brain is toast
<ddaa> mhhhhhh
<BradB> elmo: the VH'ing is screwed up on mawson:
<BradB> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/1
<BradB> hover over "bugs" in the breadcrumbs
<BradB> notice the ++vh++ in the link
<SteveA> that's normal
<SteveA> the breadcrumbs are broken, and shouldn't be in launchpad at the moment
<SteveA> the virtual hosting is working fine, no need to bother elmo
<SteveA> the breadcrumbs are implemented in a way that doesn't use the proper zope3 api to be aware of virtual hosting
<SteveA> the underlying problem is zope3's attachment to "location" in the object graph, and linking this to URLs
<SteveA> this part of zope3 is rather bogus
<SteveA> I'm campaigning for it to be changed in zope3, but supporting canonical stuff is nearer the top of my todo list
<BradB> Kinnison: if i restart DF does that affect you in any way?
<BradB> SteveA: maybe it's the "and linking this to URL's part" that smells.
<BradB> i would have thought that anything that knows how to make a URL from a location should know if I'm a VH.
<SteveA> the point is we're not using locations
<SteveA> locations are supposed to be optional in zope3
<SteveA> normal python code doesn't use locations
<BradB> ah
<SteveA> just the zope3 pseudo-content-management system
<SteveA> that is __name__ and __parent__
<Kinnison> BradB: If you restart the launchpad instance the librarian is fine
<Kinnison> BradB: if you want to fuck with the db then you may have to kill/restart the librarian
<SteveA> I want to have a proper think about this, and implement the right solution for dealing with virtual hosting.  I can't do this until I get back from vacation.
<SteveA> meanwhile, either turn breadcrumbs off, or hack it into working somehow
<SteveA> but, don't embark on major architecture (like making all our stuff "locations" in the zope3 sense)
<BradB> SteveA: so I make myself placeful by implementing IContained?
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> please don't do that
<BradB> no, I wouldn't, but I'm curious
<SteveA> that's biting off the zope3 locations crack
<SteveA> and I don't want us to go there
<BradB> I just meant in "normal" Zope 3 development, would that be how I'd do it?
<SteveA> kind of
<SteveA> that's part of it
<SteveA> using zope3 containers for everything would sort it out for you
<BradB> but we won't be doing that :P
<BradB> ok, so maybe this won't suck when you get back from sicily
<SteveA> yeah.  I will be bringing my laptop and archives on vacation
<SteveA> I don't promise to do anything with them, though
<SteveA> the virtual hosting / urls / etc. stuff touches more than just breadcrumbs
<SteveA> so I do want to get it right.
<SteveA> but, I think I might end up checking out my thoughts with Jim, and possibly tweaking parts of zope3
<SteveA> there's already one relevent tweak in the pipeline, to make our use of suburls and traversal cleaner.
<SteveA> but, i need to talk to jim further about it
<SteveA> (we discussed it at length in vienna)
<BradB> oh shit
<BradB> i hope this:
<BradB> gpg: no default secret key: bad passphrase
<BradB> gpg: [stdin] : clearsign failed: bad passphrase
<BradB> Null message body; hope that's ok
<SteveA> when we've got dogfood well and truely going, I'll see if mark will give me a few days to get some zope3 stuff done that will make our future easily
<BradB> doesn't start a pqm loop
<BradB> SteveA: cool
<SteveA> I guess if gpg failed, pqm won't do anything at all
<spiv_> BradB: No, pqm will just reject it.
<BradB> good
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: Fixed the statistics update script. It's not finished, See bug #1975 for more info (patch-705)
<BradB> PQMException! w00t.
* BradB retries
<SteveA> spiv_: ping ping
<spiv_> pong pong.
<SteveA> hi
<SteveA> what are you up to at the moment?
<SteveA> you missed the meeting today
* Kinnison goes to have his dinner
<Kinnison> c'ya
<SteveA> spiv_: look in launchpad/sourcecode/zope/src/ZConfig/doc for ZConfig docs
<SteveA> there's a comprehensive manual on using and extending it
<spiv_> I'm about to sink my teeth into some DOAP work, now that the arch guys don't have anything else they need from me.
<SteveA> I'd like you to make it so we can specify the database to use in launchpad.conf 
<spiv_> Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.
<spiv_> I'll take a look, thanks.
<SteveA> ok, please do it soon
<SteveA> I don't want random configuration settings to appear in zcml or random python files.
<SteveA> pragmatically, we need to do this now for buildbot
<SteveA> but it should not stay that way.
<SteveA> I'd also like you to make launchpad look for launchpad.conf.in before launchpad.conf
<SteveA> so, we can provide a default launchpad.conf.in, but it can be overridden with launchpad.conf
<spiv_> Right.  Buildbot is probably the worst-case here; the configuration stuff it already has is ugly and requires a fair bit of surgery to the code to fix.
<dilys> Merge to rocketfuel@canonical.com/launchpad--devel--0: fixed adding bugtrackers (patch-706)
<BradB> SteveA: by the way, i want to announce launchpad-dogfood today. could you clarify who are the intended users right now, who should be using the dogfood app, and what for?
<SteveA> spiv_: file bugs please!  (perhaps even in malone...)
<SteveA> the launchpad team should be using it for bug tracking.
<SteveA> other users are to be decided, after you and mark and mdz get together tonight
<spiv_> Ok, I'll start poking bugs into the dogfood malone :)
<BradB> SteveA: he'll be on IRC, presumably?
<SteveA> yep
<BradB> speaking of which, i'm supposed to be discussing Malone with kiko 10 minutes ago :)
<SteveA> at whatever time I mentioned earlier
<dilys> Bug 2087 resolved: initZopeless patch
<dilys> https://bugzilla.warthogs.hbd.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2087
<SteveA> BradB: will spiv_ be able to file the "use zconfig for launchpad database conf" bug in malone? 
<BradB> SteveA: not yet, there's no launchpad source package
<BradB> he could go in and add one manually in the absense of the soyuz guys, like i did earlier
* BradB thinks Malone looks pretty sane on mawson now
<BradB> SteveA: i can patch plone (CC) now...i was just taking a few minutes now to figure out what i'm doing by applying that patch
<SteveA> BradB: hold off on that please
<BradB> SteveA: is this an attempt to try and force ssl all the time?
<BradB> ok
<SteveA> I'm sorting out cacheing properly at the moment
<BradB> oh, ok
<SteveA> elmo thinks it is crackful to run ssl for all authenticated users
<SteveA> we'll burn gentoo up ;-)
<kiko-fud> BradB, yes?
<BradB> kiko-fud: two things:
<BradB> threeish, actually
<BradB> 1. we need packaged imported into launchpad-dogfood asap (demo in 45 mins)
<BradB> s,packaged,packages,
<BradB> 2. I added a package for "malone" without a distro right now. Not sure if you guys have a more sane way to do this, but we need packages in the right places called "malone", "rosetta", and "soyuz"
<kiko-fud> source packages? or products?
<BradB> 3. I thought we were going to meet 45 minutes ago to discuss Malone. :P
<BradB> kiko-fud: source packages...if you can do products too, sure, but i thought that was spiv_ 
<kiko-fud> I took too long, we're buying some SCSI hard drives but it's challenging to get right.
<kiko-fud> BradB, well, hmmmm. you've got a minor problem there
<kiko-fud> our "mass package imports" are done today via Gina
<BradB> does gina work with the new schema?
<kiko-fud> that's with Kinnison, he said that *was* happenning
<BradB> kiko-fud: he was blocked by you guys
<BradB> wanting to know if gina worked with the new schema
<cprov> BradB: pong
<kiko-fud> Kinnison was blocked by *us*?
* Kinnison nods
* Kinnison isn't familiar with all of gina; so I figured someone who wrote it would be a better person to get it up-to-speed with the new schema
<BradB> [11:43]  	<Kinnison>	Which needs someone to tell me that gina can do the new schema; whereupon I'll commit my build merges
* Kinnison has only been patching bits to make it work better with the new lucille-related tables
<BradB> we've got 37 minutes :)
<BradB> er, maybe 1h 37m
<kiko-fud> oh, I see
* BradB runs date -u again
<kiko-fud> well, we were until now blocked on gina 
<kiko-fud> however cprov now has access to is
<kiko-fud> can someone fill me in on what "new schema" means?
<Kinnison> I think there are some sourcepackage changes
<Kinnison> gina barfs about not filling out a column which is NOT NULL
<Kinnison> or something
<kiko-fud> is that all? getting gina to run?
<kiko-fud> stub?
<kiko-fud> stub, are names with underscores forbidden?
* BradB tries to found out the revision of lp running on df; no idea how to do that with tla
<kiko-fud> tla status -v ? :-P
<kiko-fud> (it's a joke if you don't read me)
<BradB> heh
<kiko-fud> does anyone know why valid_name craps out on underscores?
<BradB> kiko-fud: IF name IS NULL OR name SIMILAR TO \'^[a-z0-9] [a-z0-9\\+\\.\\-] +$\' THEN
* BradB gets on all fours to try and get tla to tell me the tree revision
<kiko-fud> BradB, oh, I can read the regexp, I just want to know *why* it craps out on underscores.
<BradB> if you're going to have tla tree-version, then tla tree-revision better Just Work
<kiko-fud> I would assume underscores were valid names.
<kiko-fud> cprov, how about we modify all underscores to hyphens?
<BradB> kiko-fud: oh, you mean why the programmer disallowed them..
<cprov> kiko-fud: ok
<kiko-fud> BradB, no promises on that hard deadline, because honestly, gina takes a long time to run.
<kiko-fud> oh ffs
<kiko-fud> some dork took kiko
<Kinnison> BradB: what *is* the tree revision though?
<Kinnison> Oh yeah; gina is going to need multiple-architecture loving at some point
<kiko-fud> yes, I know that part
<BradB> Kinnison: good point, heh
<kiko-fud> BradB, if you just want 3 packages, then you'll need to poison the sampledata
<kiko-fud> what's it going to be?
<BradB> kiko-fud: we don't use sample data
<kiko-fud> well, "sample data", does that help?
<kiko-fud> given that malone, soyuz and rosetta don't have debian packages and therefore don't live in katie
* cprov -> increasing memory
<BradB> kiko-fud: there's no poisoning, i meant that i needed someone who knows soyuz do go in there by hand and add them in a sane way (e.g. possibly creating a distro for them, etc.)
<kiko-fud> Oh.
<BradB> "by hand" i.e. via the UI
<kiko-fud> you can't create packages using the soyuz interface.
<kiko-fud> it's not meant to be used that way
<BradB> oh, hm
<kiko-fud> packages go into the system via a complicated upload process that only Kinnison understands <wink>
<BradB> then i guess "by hand" means via SQL
<kiko-fud> that can be done
<kiko-fud> the fact that cprov left must mean that debonzi is our only hope :)
<kiko-fud> debonzi?
<BradB> heh
<kiko-fud> so you want help there so we can report bugs on these packages, is that is?
<kiko-fud> there's some information we need to guess
<kiko-fud> such as the source package release version
<kiko-fud> and the related binary packages
<kiko-fud> maintainer
<kiko-fud> etc :)
<BradB> wow, tla logs seems badly broken
<BradB> tla logs -h says:
<BradB> usage: tla logs [options]  [[archive] /version ...] 
<BradB> but somehow:
<BradB> bradb@oxygen:~/launchpad/lp$ tla logs -A rocketfuel@canonical.com launchpad--devel--0 | tail -1
<BradB> patch-704
<BradB> madness. pure madness.
<kiko-fud> it just lists the patch #?
<BradB> yeah, that's what i wanted though
<BradB> can't find that out on mawson though
<kiko-fud> who did the checkout?
<BradB> kiko-fud: i'm asking there "what's the last patch i've applied from the rocketfuel version blah--blah--0?"
<BradB> kiko-fud: me, locally. you can't do checkouts on mawson.
<BradB> i'm not interested in putting my private keys on mawson, anyway :)
<BradB> but, i think i might have since star-merged, hmph
<kiko-fud> so you rsynced your mirror and then checkout?
<BradB> i did a build-config, tarballed and scp'd it up to mawson
<kiko-fud> heh
* BradB checks something
<BradB> kiko-fud: the last db patch is patch-3-12-0.sql
<BradB> er, wait
<BradB> yeah, that's the last one
<kiko-fud> BradB, debonzi can probably do the DB hack for you
<debonzi> hi BradB, can I help with something?
<kiko-fud> BradB, explain what you need more or less in details
<BradB> btw, the demo's at 20:00 UTC
<BradB> debonzi: we need to be able to file bugs in malone for launchpad
<BradB> debonzi: malone is written to cater to open source linux software i.e. packages, products, etc.
<BradB> debonzi: so, for dogfooding purposes, we're going to shoehorn the ability to file lp bugs in malone by reported them against "unreleased packages" called "launchpad", "malone", "rosetta", and "soyuz" (unless there are better names)
<BradB> i've already added malone, but I need you to:
<BradB> 1. review that the way i added malone in the db is sane.
<BradB> 2. add the other three
<BradB> please
<BradB> by "added malone" i mean "added malone as a sourcepackage"
<kiko_bz> debonzi, do you have access to mawson?
<debonzi> kiko_bz, I need to check
<debonzi> BradB, right.. so what you need is add in sample data malone, soyuz, rosetta?
<kiko_bz> right
<debonzi> as sourcepackages
<BradB> and launchpad
<BradB> malone's already added, but i need you to verify that i did it in a sane way
<debonzi> BradB, right.. I do that right now
<BradB> thanks
<debonzi> BradB, no problem
<debonzi> kiko_bz, mawson ask me for password
<BradB> elmo: ^
<debonzi> kiko_bz, do I need it now?
<BradB> yes please
<elmo> he didn't have an account, fixed
<BradB> thanks
<kiko_bz> wondy
<debonzi> yes, I am there
<BradB> sudo -u launchpad -s
<BradB> psql launchpad_dogfood
<kiko_bz> or bash to make it easier
<BradB> hm?
<BradB> those are the commands debonzi needs :)
<kiko_bz> I mean
<kiko_bz> sudo -u launchpad bash
<kiko_bz> gives him a launchpad shell
<kiko_bz> from which he can pg_dump or psql as much as he likes
<BradB> so does -s :)
<kiko_bz> oh that's the -s
<BradB> well, it gives him a $SHELL
<kiko_bz> I was thinking it's one of those useless options
<elmo> always either use -s or do 'sudo su - launchpad' instead
<BradB> kiko_bz: heh heh
<debonzi> BradB, did you add launchpad as a distribution?
<BradB> elmo: by the way, can you make it so that i can sudo -u zope -s on gentoo without typing my p/w every time?
<BradB> debonzi: nope
<BradB> debonzi: i'm leaving that to you guys to best decide how it fits into soyuz.
<kiko_bz> debonzi, but is launchpad a distro?
<debonzi> BradB, no it isn't
<debonzi> BradB, but it is there
<BradB> somebody else added it then. the data in there is a dump of the prod db.
<BradB> er, wait
<debonzi> BradB, ok.. Ill leave like it for now
<BradB> gargh, yeah that was me starting to do it through the UI before stub suggested i could mod the tables directly
<BradB> the lp distro can be removed
<debonzi> BradB, ok
<elmo> BradB: meh
<BradB> ok, maybe not
<SteveA> elmo: please add "meh" to the ProjectGlossary
* ddaa adds this to Quote-
<BradB> SteveA: heh heh
<BradB> kiko_bz: when you're ready to talk about malone, i've got in mind something that would be really useful for you guys to work on
* Kinnison -> London
<debonzi> BradB, this db is going to be used only for malone or this that should be also available for the other aplications?
<debonzi> s/that/data
<BradB> debonzi: it's a real, live launchpad instance, so for all apps
<BradB> we're the only ones using it though
<BradB> we == lp devs
* cprov announces gina just finnish on mawson 
<debonzi> BradB, am asking because a sourcepackage lives in a distrorelease, so if this data should be used for soyuz for example the db should have a distro and distrorelease at least
<cprov> Kinnison: ping
<BradB> debonzi: the intent is that you guys (or cprov and kiko_bz...whoever's involved in that) will import all the "real" data we need to make soyuz look sane.
<debonzi> BradB, at least for malone sourcepackages launchpad, soyuz, rosetta and malone should be available... do you have a way to check?
<BradB> i'll check
<debonzi> BradB, right..
<Kinnison> cprov: I'm about to go to London
<BradB> debonzi: yep, they're there. thanks dude.
<debonzi> BradB, so I beliave I need to wait the "real" data to be there and than publish this packages "by hand"
<Kinnison> kiko_bz: sabdfl and I have agreed that I'll take on gina. I'll chat with you tomorrow about it
* Kinnison has to go now
* Kinnison has a dead server to revive
* Kinnison -> London
<cprov> Kinnison: can you send me instruction to run librarian ?
<BradB> Kinnison: how low-tech is that!
<debonzi> BradB, you are welcome.. if something is missing or you want to change, just ask for
<BradB> debonzi: depends...what does "publishing" a package mean? adds it to a certain distro?
<debonzi> BradB, yes.. we can say that
<BradB> debonzi: so you plan to have a distro for m/s/l/r?
<BradB> we probably shouldn't
<BradB> unless we should
<debonzi> BradB, if they should be available in soyuz (and I think they do) yes.. but it will probably be done later
<BradB> i dunno, maybe that'll make some things easier to look at in the UI if they belong to a distro
<kiko_bz> Kinnison, that's cool, I'm on it
<BradB> spiv_: do you do nicole?
<BradB> (pun intended)
!alindeman:*! Hi all! Interested users from Poland: #linux.pl is a channel for Polish Linux users created for support and general Linux discussion.  Stop by if you'd like.
<cprov> BradB: what is up w/ nicole ?
<BradB> cprov: i just wanted to know what to tell mark if he wants to know when gina and nicole will have been run on launchpad_dogfood
<cprov> BradB: ok, in few words:  gina will agregatte new sources on a given distro, nicole will add project/product{series/release} for them
<BradB> yeah, i know what they do (i think), but i just wanted to know when all the "real" projects, products and source packages will be brought in.
<kiko_bz> BradB, this is ugly. I imagine a launchpad distribution could solve problems temporarily -- that is, if it's okay to move bugs to a new package in another distro when we make up our minds :)
<kiko_bz> BradB, however, this is crack -- doesn't malone track bugs in non-packages?
<BradB> kiko_bz: that's why i added the launchpad distro earlier.
<kiko_bz> yes, I realize but see my question.
<BradB> kiko_bz: a bug is just a bug
<kiko_bz> when.. what's the big deal about with soyuz packages? :)
<BradB> bugs can be assigned to products and packages
<kiko_bz> s/wh/th
<BradB> kiko_bz: so that it looks a little more real (well, a lot more real) when sabdfl demoes it to mdz
<BradB> which happens 6 minutes ago
<BradB> or not, i guess
<kiko_bz> BradB, but come on, soyuz *isn't* a package, mdz wouldn't be impressed. he would if you displayed gcc-3.3 :)
<kiko_bz> don't we have a bugzilla importer going?
<kiko_bz> we could import some upstream bugs related to a package we *do* have in ubuntu
<BradB> kiko_bz: and, well, dude, it's hard for rosetta to dogfood without packages to translate.
<BradB> because the rosetta alpha is, of course, moving into the DF
<cprov> a bugzilla importer will rock !!! real bugs for real packages <wink>
<kiko_bz> justdave, what's the story on the bugzilla importer?
<kiko_bz> BradB, what's wrong with translating xchat? :)
<kiko_bz> we could pull xchat bugs and use xchat packages and translate it too.
<justdave> kiko_bz: it's not actually an importer, it's a watcher.
<kiko_bz> ah, I see.
<justdave> you file a bug in Malone, then tell it it's an upstream bug and give it which bug system and the bug number
<justdave> then it queries the upstream bug for the status periodically and will tell you in malone what the upstream status is
<kiko_bz> just status. not comments?
<justdave> correct
<debonzi> BradB, so, I already created one distro, distrorelease and now the are in ubuntu/warty... so probably you can see then in soyuz too
<BradB> woo
<SteveA> spiv_: ping?
<SteveA> spiv_: never mind
<sabdfl> hi all
<SteveA> sabdfl: simon has come up with a way that should work to get decent names in RecentChanges
<sabdfl> excellent
<sabdfl> what was the trick?
<SteveA> it isn't fixed yet.  a wiki page stores the text of who edited it.  we just need to get the name rather than the id and store that.
<SteveA> the name will be available, we're just not sure where. 
<SteveA> plone is now serving up correct-looking cacheing headers
<sabdfl> cool, please thank vika
<sabdfl> did i meet vika in vilnius?
<SteveA> but for as yet unknown reasons, our apache isn't cacheing it
<sabdfl> ah
<sabdfl> bad injun
<SteveA> no, because vika lives in israel at present
<SteveA> vika's apache is cacheing it on her machine
<kiko_bz> hey sabdfl
<SteveA> it is unclear what is different
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> hiya kiko_bz
<sabdfl> you feeling a little pressured?
<kiko_bz> somebody took over kiko today, I don't feel like nickserving them to death though
<sabdfl> that's your story, is it?
<sabdfl> chatted with kinnison after he landed
<sabdfl> i landed
<kiko_bz> sort of. sabdfl, we were discussing the immediate issue of the demo of malone with soyuz combo
<sabdfl> he figures to have mawson up to speed with gina data this week, in collaboration with cprov
<kiko_bz> we finally are getting gina to run again
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> ok
<BradB> sabdfl: hi. malone dogfood should be ready to rock
<sabdfl> BradB: !
<kiko_bz> there's an interesting question which is: do soyuz, rosetta and malone belong to a distribution?
<sabdfl> let drums roll...
<sabdfl> mdz round?
<BradB> heh
<mdz> sabdfl: yep
* mdz tries to contain his excitement
<sabdfl> bradb has something to show you
<sabdfl> should we do the walkthrough from irc in this channel, or somewhere else?
<SteveA> it would be good for the soyuz team to watch,perhaps
<BradB> oh, ok
<mdz> makes no difference to me
<cprov> sabdfl: gina runs on mawson, nicole probabily too ... I'm waiting to work with Kinnisson to have lucile and librarian support
<BradB> i was going to do it in #malone-dogfood, but we can probably just do it here
<sabdfl> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com
<BradB> mdz: you'll need the client cert installed, if you don't have it installed already
<mdz> BradB: I have it
<sabdfl> so let's go straight into malone
<BradB> ok, so shall we start?
<mdz> "the" client cert?  you mean I didn't get my very own? *pout*
<cprov> SteveA: how to get the client cert ?
<kiko_bz> cprov, it went via email from elmo
<kiko_bz> cprov, see your launchpad archive
<BradB> cprov: launchpad.p12 to lp@
<kiko_bz> save it into a file and then import it into a browser
<mdz> BradB: where do I start?
<kiko_bz> Edit/Preferences/Advanced/Security/Certificates on the browser
<BradB> mdz: malone
<kiko_bz> FF at least
<BradB> mdz: we can pretty much go top to bottom through what's listed there
<mdz> ok, I'm there
<BradB> ok, so i'll let you do the actual adding and stuff
<BradB> mdz: so first off, click "Create a new bug report."
<mdz> ok
<mdz> authentication dialog
<BradB> mdz: enter your user/pass
<mdz> which one would that be?
<sabdfl> bradb: did we pull the data from the production db?
<BradB> mdz: it's the dump from prod
<sabdfl> for auth?
<BradB> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> works for me!
<sabdfl> mdz: the same as your website access
<BradB> mdz: by the way, you already know the basic ideas behind malone, right?
<mdz> ok, worked
<sabdfl> in fture we'll use a cookie auth system
<sabdfl> so the authentication will look neater
<BradB> indeed
<mdz> BradB: I hope so, assuming the spec reflected my input :-)
<BradB> oh good, wasn't there. :)
<sabdfl> mdz: baby steps, but keep going
<BradB> mdz: okay, so you can go ahead and enter a bug
<mdz> shall I fill this out and submit a bug?
<mdz> ok
<sabdfl> file that as a bug on malone
<sabdfl> the cookie auth thing
<BradB> you need to choose a source package too, I think, which will be malone, of course
<mdz> aw, no source package for ubuntu? :-)
<mdz> ok, bug #5 created
<cprov> BradB: sourcepackage link  crashes :(
<BradB> cprov: not sure what you're referring to
<BradB> mdz: okay, so next up, you can go back to the main malone screen, just for kicks
<BradB> i.e. the malone tab
<mdz> ok
<BradB> the "See the complete bug list"
<BradB> then your bug
<cprov> BradB: simple, access https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/soyuz/distros/ubuntu/src/warty/soyuz
<mdz> yep
<sabdfl> we have some suprt project/product/package selection widgets under development
<mdz> the 'show bugs you created' defaults to showing all bugs created by everyone
<BradB> cprov: oh, dude, that's soyuz...no idea there. :)
<mdz> BradB: yep, works
<BradB> mdz: ok, any questions first about what you're seeing?
<BradB> about what bits mean what, or what they might be used for?
<BradB> if not, we'll start using them
<mdz> BradB: the comment bit has two text input widgets
<mdz> but they aren't labeled
<mdz> subject and body?
<BradB> mdz: yeah, that sucks, we'll file the bug when we're done
<BradB> anything else?
<kiko_bz> yes, I had seen that
<cprov> BradB: ok, we'll  find
<mdz> BradB: I'm fiddling
<sabdfl> comments are still undecided
<kiko_bz> didn't I file that bug already? hmmm
<sabdfl> w.r.t. threading etc
<mdz> BradB: what level of feedback are you looking for?
<mdz> BradB: e.g., we need a couple of additional statuses
<BradB> mdz: i just wanted to know if you had any questions about the UI you're seeing before i should you the rest of it
<BradB> s/should/show/
<mdz> BradB: will there be an enhanced selection mechanism for the assignee?
<BradB> mdz: i sure hope so :)
<mdz> currently it seems to be a combobox with every person in it
<BradB> i think limi's onit
<mdz> ok
<BradB> sabdfl: is he?
<mdz> BradB: bug watch = link to an external bug?
<BradB> mdz: watch the bug as reported on a bugzilla somewhere
<BradB> see its status over there
<mdz> right
<sabdfl> yes, we'l have better selection widgets for person, product, package, project
<BradB> mdz: bugzilla is the only supported thing to watch right now. i can show you later the interface to where you register those.
<mdz> BradB: what's the difference between the "add an infested" widgets on the left, and the "add package" and "add product" in the middle?  do they do the same thing?
<BradB> mdz: no, here's the diff:
<sabdfl> assignment vs infestation
<BradB> mdz: "packages" and "products" and a general idea, not referring to any specific release, but rather as a way of saying to the maintainer of the package "hey, there's a bug, do something about it"
<sabdfl> work-to-do vs versions-affected
<BradB> yes
<mdz> hmm
<BradB> that's the most amazingly succint way to put it :)
<sabdfl> hmm?
<mdz> shouldn't an affected-version imply work-to-do?
<sabdfl> we could put that into the process
<sabdfl> if you said it affects that version, we can automatically add the assignment too
<BradB> mdz: work-to-do ends up in infested versions, usually
<mdz> what is the intended workflow?
<sabdfl> whatever works
<mdz> so I've submitted a bug and tied it to malone
<BradB> malone's a bad example :)
<sabdfl> except your bug has nothing to do with malone dude, it's YOUR bug, not mine :-)
<mdz> let's pretend malone is packaged in Ubuntu :-)
<sabdfl> all wrong
<BradB> mdz: it's still early on: but basically:
<sabdfl> hoary is a release of ubuntu, a product in the ubuntu project
<BradB> 1. you assign the bug to sourcepackage gcc-3.3
<BradB> 2. gcc-3.3 guy sees it
<BradB> sabdfl: now 3. does gcc-3.3 guy add the infestations? the UI's going through puberty right now, so i'm not totally clear.
<BradB> mdz: (because infestations will be automated eventually)
<mdz> I should sit down and flowchart this out, really
<mdz> based on what we've done so far in bugzilla
<BradB> mdz: needless to say, we've had no real use of malone, so we haven't found out if our workflow sucks or not
<sabdfl> guys, have a guest, back in an hour or two
<mdz> BradB: right, we'll want to fold the real-world experience we've had into the workflow model
<BradB> mdz: i think other people should be allowed to come in and add the infestations actually. anyone who sees that that bug exists in a certain release
<BradB> mdz: in fact, a lot of people may have to add infestations
<mdz> BradB: ah, so the difference is that the infestations are versioned?
<BradB> mdz: infestations describe how a bug affects a particular release
<BradB> mdz: e.g. "affected" is obvious. "dormant" means, "in this release, but we're not using the bit of the code that shows it"
<BradB> mdz: "victimized" means "not our fault, but we're getting blamed for this bug in your package anyway!"
<mdz> right
<mdz> "it's your bug, but it breaks my package"
<BradB> yes
<BradB> whereas the product/source package (i.e. non-version) "assignments" are simply a way of getting this bug in the face of the people that need to know about it
<BradB> and, as you'll not in the UI, each of those individuals or teams then decide the severity and priority of the bug on their own
<mdz> yeah, I remember this from the data model
<SteveA> sabdfl: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrontPage/recentchanges
<BradB> mdz: anything stand out at you straight away that prevents warthogs from reporting bugs with this?
<mdz> BradB: what is your name for the items which are listed  in the middle table (upstream/package, state, sev, pri, assignedto)?
<mdz> what is each row in that table called?
<BradB> either a product assignment or a source package assignment; they've been aggregated into one table now
<mdz> so an 'assignment'
<BradB> er, one *listing* in the UI that is
<BradB> two tables in the DB, of course
<mdz> so we can think of that as "this is what needs to be done in order to close this bug"
<mdz> and the infestations as "this is where the bug has been observed"
<BradB> mdz: or "the maintainers of these packages and products" have to do something about fixing this bug (for assignments)
<BradB> mdz: and yes, that's correct for infestations
<mdz> BradB: thinking about it, it would be nice to be able to attach a little note to each of those
<BradB> for a liberal definition of "observed" (e.g. in the case of victimization)
<mdz> each assignment
<mdz> to be used as a todo list
<BradB> hm, i guess it would
<mdz> package X needs this change, package Y needs a different change
<BradB> good point
<mdz> the table would provide a very nice overview that way
<BradB> noted
<mdz> phone call, just a moment
<BradB> ok
<mdz> hmm, they hung up. never mind\
<BradB> mdz: notifications are working on almost all the adds and edits currently, but i've left it in test mode until we fix an ownership bug. until then i'm the only one receiving the notificaiton emails.
<mdz> BradB: are you familiar with how our bugzilla is set up?
<BradB> mdz: nope
<mdz> that might help to understand our existing workflow
<mdz> ok, we have a bugzilla instance, with an Ubuntu product, and a component for every package in the distributio
<mdz> n
<mdz> when bugs are filed, they get assigned to a dummy user (because we don't know who will be fixing them yet)
<mdz> copies of all bug traffic is sent to a central mailing list
<mdz> I read that mailing list in order to triage bug reports as they come in, and to keep up with the conversations going on in individual bugs
<mdz> when a bug comes in, it either gets a request for more information (if incomplete), or assigned to someone to fix
<mdz> or sometimes it won't be assigned right away, because we're not yet sure what to do about it
<mdz> the assignee will generally either debug the problem interactively with the submitter, fix it with an upload, or forward it upstream
<mdz> bugs which are waiting for information from the submitter, or forwarded upstream, are sorted later in their todo list
<mdz> they will check back from time to time, but for the moment, the bug is someone else's problem
<mdz> we don't use bugzilla's NEW/ASSIGNED distinction, at least not consistently, but that's mostly because it's annoying to use
<mdz> if the process of fixing the bug involves more than one step, all hell breaks loose, and we can't really represent that in bugzilla, so we scribble notes
<mdz> e.g., if multiple packages need changes
<BradB> ah
<mdz> sometimes, a bug will be fixed for us by an upstream (mostly Debian)
<mdz> in that case, we queue an import of the fixed version of the package, and make a notation on the bug
<mdz> likewise if we upload a fix of our own
<mdz> we put the bug in a PENDINGUPLOAD state
<mdz> which indicates that we've dealt with it (lower on the todo list), but that it's still actually present in the distribution (not closed yet)
<mdz> much of the awkwardness in the workflow, which we hope can be addressed with malone, results from the fact that bug tracking systems have different types of users with different needs
<mdz> most obviously the user and the developer
<BradB> malone is meant for developers
<BradB> we leave user-handling to issue trackers
<elmo> uh
<elmo> say what?
<mdz> BradB: a key interface point where users do need to interact with the bug tracking system is finding a bug
<mdz> and interacting with the developer in collecting information, debugging, etc.
<mdz> I could see building an issue tracker to handle the latter case
<BradB> er, in this situation though, "users" are really "developers"...malone is meant to deal with "developers" (or people who are otherwise involved in open source, and have a really good idea of what they're doing) and "maintainers" (people who fix and improve things, based on what the former group is reporting.)
<elmo> malone is going to need to deal with users - period
<BradB> elmo: with suzy secretary, nope it doesn't.
<elmo> what the hell is suzy secretary?
<mdz> AKA "Jeff's Mum"
<elmo> bradb: hell yes it does
<BradB> elmo: dude, trust me, it doesn't.
<elmo> if you want it to be of any use to a distro team
<kiko_bz> BradB, what version of the code are you running?
<mdz> BradB: it is a fact of life that in many cases, the person on the other end of a bug report isn't a developer-type
<BradB> i'm just relaying sabdfl's objectives, but if you think it should also be an issue tracker, you can ask him about that
<elmo> BradB: dude, don't go all Arch developer on us
<mdz> he and I have discussed it, and I support the idea of a separate issue tracker
<BradB> elmo: ^ :)
<mdz> but that's a separate issue from users interfacing with malone
<elmo> BradB: you have the distro team leader telling you he needs something: "no, you don't" is a good Tom Lord answer, not so good for Launchpad
<mdz> BradB: here's a real-world scenario that happens all the time.  A user has a hardware-related bug, which is only reproducible on their system or a similar one
<BradB> mdz: ok, what are you seeing malone needs to have to be able to be used by the warthogs?
<mdz> BradB: we need to connect that user with the kernel maintainer and do some back-and-forth to isolate the bug
<BradB> elmo: or, to put it more accurately, i'm just relaying the stated goals of launchpad, as per mark's specification
<BradB> mdz: yeah, malone is meant for those people, i think
<mdz> BradB: then another user comes along and has the same problem
<mdz> BradB: they need to get into the mix, see if their bug really is the same, and participate in testing fixes, etc.
<BradB> mdz: sure
<mdz> an issue tracker provides a nice mapping from user problems to bugs
<kiko_bz> BradB, elmo and mdz are right, though. a bugtracker should be usable by end-users, because that's a large part of the fun of participating in OSS (people pay attention to you)
<mdz> but once they follow that link, they will be part of the bug life cycle
<kiko_bz> it also provides a structured way of storing this information, which is essential to making heads or tails of it later.
<mdz> anyway, this is getting a bit handwavy
<BradB> kiko_bz: i think the main point here is the confusion about what the term "end-user" really means in this context.
<mdz> let's focus on the system itself and how we will use it
<mdz> BradB: so I have a bug which is assigned to malone, but that's wrong, and it needs to be assigned to Ubuntu instead. how do I change that?
<BradB> in the edit screen
<mdz> but it isn't there yet?
<BradB> yeah, just click on the assignment
<mdz> that lets me change status, priority, severity, binarypackage and assignee
<mdz> but not the source package
<BradB> oh, i might have been thinking of infestations allowing that to be changed then. that's a bug (it was on our todo, but not to-done yet, apparently)
<mdz> ok
<mdz> one thing I find confusing is that when I click on most of the fields in the assignment list, I get an interface which lets me change the value I clicked on
<mdz> but if I click the source package, I instead get a report of bugs on it
<BradB> it's a bit of UI weirdness
<BradB> or goodness, depending on your point of view
<BradB> mdz: can i clarify one thing about "users" of malone?
<mdz> sure
<BradB> just to give some context to further discussion:
<BradB> so to be clear, there are three kinds of users that might use an ubuntu system (or any linux distro):
<BradB> 1. the kind that say "where's the any key?"
<BradB> 2. the kind that say "hey brad, we love plone and we're really keen to start using it!" or perhaps "i hack on core python in my spare time"...e.g. the people who are really part of the OS movement and making the software better.
<BradB> 3. the people fixing the bugs reported by 1 and 2 (who might also be in group 2)
<BradB> malone is for 2 and 3, issue trackers are for 1
<BradB> that's the impression i got from discussing with mark.
<mdz> my point earlier was that we cannot expect to completely isolate class-1 users from malone
<mdz> because of the issues inherent in difficult-to-reproduce bugs
<BradB> mdz: ok, you might want to have a word with mark to clarify that, because my understanding is that they're in no way catered to in malone.
<mdz> BradB: I think he and I were on the same page the last time we spoke about it, but I'll raise it again to be sure
<BradB> mdz: ok, what other things do you see in the UI that would prevent warthogs from using it?
<mdz> BradB: tell me about the notifications
<BradB> you'll get a notification for adding:
<BradB> infestations
<mdz> based on how I described our Bugzilla approach earlier, how would that map to malone notifications?
<BradB> hm, /me thinks
<BradB> let's put it this way (so you can subtract malone from bugzilla and see where the different is workflow-wise)
<BradB> people can be Cc'd on a bug. anybody that's a user can be.
<BradB> people who are Cc'd on a bug get notifications when any of the following things are added to that bug:
<BradB> infestations
<BradB> assignments
<BradB> ext refs
<BradB> watches
<BradB> comments
<mdz> how do I get notified of new bugs?
<BradB> mdz: they're no support for that yet
<mdz> ok, that should be on the critical list
<BradB> indeed
<BradB> there's a problem at the UI level with that though
<mdz> oh?
<BradB> malone needs someway of saying "this person should get notified when any bugs of this kind are submitted", but there's no UI whatsoever for that, i don't think
<BradB> and, perhaps a distro-global notification
<mdz> at the level of bug traffic we have now, a global notification is fine
<mdz> all new bugs -> here
<BradB> ah, yeah, ok, i think i remember talking with mark about a quick way to hack that in
<BradB> it's easy enough to do
<mdz> it's a hack in bugzilla, too
<mdz> but it's what makes the whole thing livable for us at this point
<mdz> every new bug and every comment go to the mailing list
<mdz> this is core to working on bugs as a team, rather than as an individual
<kiko_bz> agreed on that.
<BradB> that was what i was going to mention next too...current notifications are a bit too simplistic in malone. they don't email assignees, for example.
<BradB> global notifications are noted, i can do that in the next day or two
<mdz> when warty-bugs starts to get close to the amount of traffic on debian-bugs-dist, we'll need fancy filters to say which bugs should go to which teams
<mdz> but for now, we're essentially working as one team
<mdz> BradB: if we get that, all other shortcomings of notifications can be forgiven at this stage
<BradB> ok
<mdz> BradB: I assume that adding new bug states is fairly trivial
<mdz> we need several of those
<BradB> yes
<mdz> with an associated sort order
<BradB> er, actually i don't think bugs have a state at the moment
<mdz> well, there's an attribute labeled 'state' in the UI
<mdz> whatever that is, we need more of them :-)
<BradB> mdz: there's "Bug Status" in the assignments.
<BradB> i see no state on a bug
<mdz> Upstream / Package  	State  	Sev  	Pri  	Assigned to
<BradB> yeah, that's assignments
<mdz> ah, hmm
<BradB> those are easy enough to change, but i guess we also have to think about a state for a bug...or maybe not
<mdz> well, the common case is one assignment per bug, so that's workable
<mdz> but e.g., the NEEDINFO state is generally global
<mdz> for a bug
<mdz> this is minor stuff, though
<mdz> if anything, it's somewhat more flexibility than we need
<BradB> mdz: need info is only relevant to the person who doesn't think they have enough info to go on :)
<BradB> but in any case, something for down the road...i can add those easily to the assignments
<mdz> BradB: in theory, yes, but in almost all real cases, the bug report as a whole is either complete or not
<BradB> ok
<mdz> the only missing Bugzilla feature that we actually use is the target milestone
<mdz> which is actually a bad hack for what we really need
<mdz> which is proper version tracking for workflow
<mdz> "this needs to be fixed in Hoary" versus "this needs to be fixed in Hoary AND backported to Warty"
<BradB> mdz: how would you expect that to be represented in the UI?
<mdz> BradB: good question
<mdz> it's a bit of a hybrid of an infestation and an assignment
<BradB> Maybe target version: and backport to: or something
<BradB> the latter being a list
<mdz> one approach would be to allow an assignment to refer to a source package release
<mdz> as well as a source package or a product
<mdz> er
<mdz> a dist release, I suppose
<mdz> no, that's really awful, isn't it
<mdz> ideally, the state of the bug in each distrelease would be implicit based on the presence of fixed/affected versions
<mdz> but then there's a bit of policy which says "needs to be fixed with a new version to supersede this version", as distinct from "exists in this version"
<mdz> so let's say a bug is reported against foo version 1.1-1 in Hoary
<mdz> then we come along and confirm that the bug is also present back in 1.0-2 in Warty
<BradB> two infestations
<mdz> right
<mdz> which could be used to build a simple little table of releases
<mdz> which says hoary: affected, warty: affected
<BradB> ah yes, of course, that makes sense
<mdz> given that, a checkbox next to each one could be used to communicate that it needs a fix there
<mdz> I did a mockup which sort of expressed this
<mdz> I think I've lost it, though
<BradB> mdz: a checkbox? hm.
<mdz> so if a bug is marked as needing-to-be-fixed in Warty, and then a new infestation is added which shows that the bug is fixed in version X, and version X is now the current version for Warty, then it no longer needs-to-be-fixed in Warty
<mdz> and the release status table would show it fixed
<mdz> this relies on all kinds of soyuz data, etc. though
<BradB> mdz: the intent is that malone does this all automatically...i hope.
<mdz> BradB: I think we can get by OK for now with just infestations
<mdz> for the common case, it should be clear from the display, I think
<BradB> ok
<mdz> so given the notifications we discussed, and if we can manage to fake the milestone feature using infestations, I think we should be in reasonable shape
<BradB> cool
<mdz> BradB: can we expect to have live data on source packages and releases?
<mdz> imported from the package archive?
<BradB> kiko_bz: ?
<BradB> mdz: i've been hoping for it all day. :)
<BradB> cprov and Kinnison might have a response for that too (but Kinnison's not around atm)
<kiko_bz> yes?
<BradB> kiko_bz: when can we expect to have live data imported on source packages and releases?
<kiko_bz> mdz, that's done by Gina, and that's being done as we speak. We'll likely have a database up tomorrow that you can browse
<BradB> sweet
<mdz> kiko_bz: great!
<kiko_bz> the database is actually quite massive but it looks very interesting
<kiko_bz> we are getting it to run in incremental mode, so we track the history
<mdz> the issue will be that we can't create an infestation until the version is known
<BradB> mdz: what are your plans for when you realistically want warthogs to start using this, and how do you plan to have them start (e.g. a few at a time, or all at once?)
<mdz> I expect that a very common operation will be to upload a package, and then go to Malone and mark it fixed in that version
<mdz> but that version won't exist immediately
<mdz> BradB: how feasible is it to import the existing Bugzilla data?
<BradB> mdz: there's no way of doing that that i'm aware of. kiko_bz?
<mdz> it isn't really feasible for us to use both systems at once
<BradB> mdz: here's the problem with testing:
<kiko_bz> there is no *current* way, but we could get an importer going
<BradB> 1. malone isn't a very good test for it
<BradB> 2. we need a few people giving this a *good* *test* (stability and real-world usability-wise) without having everyone at once using it.
<BradB> so, ideally, we'd get a couple of maintainers using it for a couple weeks
<BradB> a couple, a few, several, whatever :)
<mdz> tthe problem with a couple of people using it is that they need actual bug data in it to test
<mdz> and if that doesn't come from bugzilla, that means pointing users to malone
<BradB> hm, rolling it out all in one shot is a big risk
<BradB> i can see why it's difficult to have just a few people testing it though. hmmm.
#launchpad 2005-11-07
<carlos> sabdfl, kiko should we target all Rosetta specs we talked about by phone to ubz like the other ubuntu specs?
<kiko> carlos, yes, please propose them
<carlos> ok
<sabdfl> thanks carlos
<carlos> np
<Kinnison> sabdfl: bug 3732 I think
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3732: from launchpad.codestandards import XXX Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3732
<lifeless> stevea ping
<lifeless> SteveA: ^^
<lifeless> nm
<lifeless> erm
<lifeless> do mind
<sivang> kiko dude, can you make me drafter for  https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/whats-new/+people, I see it's in need of one
<sivang> (I couldn't assign myself there)
<sivang> hmm, I see now we need a way to link between specs not based on dependency but more of a relation
<kiko> sivang, done
<lifeless> siving is it in wiki mode ? can you just type the spec name ?
<sivang> kiko: thank you
<SteveA> lifeless: pong
<lifeless> nm
<lifeless> was before
<lifeless> when I found you
<lifeless> just FYI, pqm is down
<lifeless> its not slow, its got a bug with the current merge
<lifeless> I am investigating
<Kinnison> cprov: 20:30, dinner, meeting in the lobby. Okay?
<cprov> Kinnison: just got dinner, but will be there for sure 
<Kinnison> cprov: d'oh
<cprov> Kinnison: no prob
<lifeless> Kinnison: hows the scheduling going?
<Kinnison> lifeless: Not a clue, I'm in the lightning talks
<lifeless> (you are still in there yes ?)
<lifeless> ah
<lifeless> kiko: ping
<kiko> lifeless, it's going. negotiating.
<lifeless> if you want me in there, let me know
<cprov> Kinnison: are we going out for dinner or just having it in the hotel rest.
<Kinnison> cprov: going out to dinner
<cprov> Kinnison: ok, I'll be there. if you want you an pick the stuff I bring to you from Brazil, room 538
<Kinnison> cprov: I'll collect it another time.
<cprov> Kinnison: okidoki, see you in 35 min
<Alinux> hello, I'm interested to translate,ubuntu text installer...what's templates exact name ?
<salgado__> is pqm stuck again?
<lifeless> 11:47 < lifeless> just FYI, pqm is down
<lifeless> 11:47 < lifeless> its not slow, its got a bug with the current merge
<lifeless> 11:47 < lifeless> I am investigating
<salgado> lifeless, ta
<Kinnison> lifeless: whose merge?
<lifeless> idunno
<kiko> lifeless, mpool and I found a bug in merging today too
<kiko> so perhaps catch up to ensure it's not the same one
<lifeless> what is the bug ?
<kiko> it seems to conflict when merging branches with different ancestries
<kiko> mpool may understand or describe the problem better
<Kinnison> ciao all
<Alinux> I've uploated a .po file , then I refresh pakages % of done translation, and nothing... still shows old resultats
<Alinux> hello, I'm interested to translate,ubuntu text installer...what's templates exact name ?
<lifeless> Kinnison: please prod mpool at #bzr
<lifeless> what the units of a datetime - datetime result ?
<lifeless> nm
<Alinux> hello, I'm interested to translate,ubuntu text installer...what's templates or packages exact name ?
<lifeless> hi Alinux , you may have more luck on #ubuntu-devel, where the developers of the installer hang out
<Alinux> lifeless, :) thanks bro
<Alinux> Administrator help needed. debian-installer has not yet been setup for translation through Rosetta.
<lifeless> carlos: ^^^
<Alinux> I can't translate it... (I'm logged in in lauchpad and I'm administrator of Georgian Translators Team)
<sivang> anybody awake ?
<cprov> sivang: yes, but I hope just for the next 5 min ;)
* cprov game is over for today ....
* zyga says morning
<lifeless> conasdasdasd
<LarstiQ> moin lifeless 
<kiko-zzz> ran ran
<koke> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/helpful-help
<koke> the link in the review box makes the right column too wide
<lifeless> jblack: the branch listing file will look like this:
<lifeless> http://whynot.launchpad.server.com/ kamion +junk feature2
<lifeless> http://not.launchpad.server.com/ kamion +junk feature
<lifeless> url, user, productname, branchname
<lifeless> ascii, space delimited
<lifeless> stub: ping
<mdz> approximately when will production be available again?
<lifeless> let me see
<lifeless> not too long, just sorting a small rollout issue
<jblack>  lifless: Thanks
<spiv_> lifeless: I have the SFTP SupermirrorFilesystemHierarchy stuff working for at least simple stuff on my laptop.
<jblack> spiv: Are you here? Physicaly?
<spiv> jblack: I said hello to you at breakfast.
<jblack> I mean are you in this room. :) 
<sivang> remorning all
<jblack> Oh,k I see you
<spiv> Oh, right :)
<sivang> launchpad's down?
<ddaa> lifeless: mpool: merging my branch with rocketfuel takes approximately ages
<ddaa> I'm going to get rid of all my history relative to rocketfuel, and save the current branches for you to diagnose the problem later.
<lifeless> ddaa: whoa there 
<ddaa> sorry it's just uselessly slow
<ddaa> cannot put that in the review system, it's going to DoS
<ddaa> Already wasted too many hours waiting for that stuff. Cannot afford any more unless you are willing to negociate a few days delay with the boss.
<lifeless> ddaa: please, calma  little
<lifeless> ddaa: whats the current status, what is merged with what, what are the urls ?
<lifeless> I have a branch with more stuff, should I merge your code into it ?
<ddaa> got my branch merged with both your bling and rocketfuel in /home/warthogs/archives/david/launchpad/branches
<lifeless> ddaa: and where are you? there is a lp meeting in Muguete
<ddaa> coming
<mick_home> is there rss and ical support in launchpad somewhere?
<mick_home> I'd like to add my dev blog under my "homepage"
<mick_home> and i'd like others to be able to subscribe to my calendar
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> mick_home, not yet, though it's a pretty cool idea
<mick_home> kiko: you the same kiko that I know from moznet?
<kiko> there can be only one
<kiko> yeah, I'm there 
<mick_home> ah cool
<mick_home> I'm a bugzilla qa guy ;-)
<kiko> so jamesh wrote the initial calendar feature
<kiko> heh, rock on
<mick_home> where can i get the src to launchpad? I'll add ical support (I have experience with it)
<kiko> mick_home, there's no source code publically available yet
<mick_home> ah ok
<kiko> which makes it harder to contribute
<mick_home> :-/
<mick_home> i see
<mick_home> i'm trying to find a good way to collaborate ClamWin translations
<kiko> if you're really interested we can get some hoops to jump through
<mick_home> and well, it has been a disaster so far
<kiko> clamwin -- for clamav?
<mick_home> ya
<kiko> aha
<kiko> tell me about your issue?
<mick_home> I'm project admin - and I'm responsible for over 30 guys translating
<kiko> okay
<kiko> so what trouble do you have coordinating?
<mick_home> it has been hell between the CMS (Joomla), and the other project admin wanting to keep everything at sf.net - currently everyone just emails me the files that they have translated
<mick_home> and everyone does "reply-all" to say "I want to work on XYZ"
<kiko> I see
<kiko> why don't you use rosetta to coordinate?
<kiko> it's quite easy to set up
<kiko> I can get you some time with jordi to describe how translation teams work
<mick_home> there are like 20 files being translated, along w/ the website... which we need to wait for Alex to finish joom!fish (mabelfish for joomla)
<kiko> 20 different templates, then?
<mick_home> its just a mess ;-)
<kiko> heh
<mick_home> plus, people are emailing html files back and forth
<kiko> oh
<kiko> it doesn't use gettext?
<mick_home> since there is no i18n support for joomla yet
<mick_home> no
<kiko> oh :-(
<mick_home> clamwin isn't fully internationalized yet (my fault again)
<kiko> mmmm
<mick_home> kiko: as i said, we need to wait for the next version of Joomla
<mick_home> so the new version of the clamwin site will be just english
<mick_home> which sucks but what the hell
<kiko> yeah
<mick_home> so, currently people are just translating strings
<mick_home> since the gettext thing isn't done yet
<mick_home> i have other build problems because of a change in python's wxWidgets binding
<mick_home> but thats another story
<mick_home> ;-)
<mick_home> kiko: the biggest thing that people want from me is a dev blog and a way to collaborate translations easily w/ launchpad
<mick_home> since noone except me knows how to use cvs
<mick_home> kiko: so rss support would be nice 
<mick_home> ;-)
<mick_home> if you have any suggestions, comments etc. come on in to #clamwin and also let me know if I can actually help with launchpad development 
<mick_home> but it looks like launchpad has problems of it's own :-)
<mick_home> see ya
<highvoltage> did launchpad just change to a new version?
<SteveA> yes
<Mithrandir> is there any reason why the "needs discussion" flag seem to have been reset?
<kiko> Mithrandir, for your spec?
<Mithrandir> kiko: yes, examples are media-integrity-check (I just reset it)
<kiko> Mithrandir, uhm, hmmm. stub, what did mark's landing change in terms of the database?
<carlos> lifeless, hi, around?
<carlos> mpool, or you?
<highvoltage> new launchpad is nice
<kiko> Mithrandir, was it simply reset, or is setting/unsetting it broken?
<highvoltage> hehe. if i toggle the order of "category" in launchpad it moves 'Total' with it
<Mithrandir> kiko: it was reset.
<Mithrandir> kiko: changing it again seems to work
<kiko> Mithrandir, argh.
<LarstiQ> launchpad feels faster, but that could just be my connection
<stub> kiko: Karma and spec stuff
<salgado> stub, we're getting timeouts sometimes, with https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filemgVhCp.html
<salgado> can we optimize it?
<stub> salgado: I'll have a look in  a tick
<lifeless> carlos: yes
<lifeless> kiko: ping
<carlos> lifeless, well, It's just that I'm trying to get a full checkout with bzr and seems like takes ages without any kind of feedback
<carlos> lifeless, scott told me that's normal and that it should take one hour and a half or so
<lifeless> carlos: are you using the recipe on MoveToBazNG wiki page ?
<carlos> lifeless, no https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RocketFuelSetup
<carlos> lifeless, as it's a fresh checkout
<lifeless> carlos: have a look otn MoveToBazNG
<carlos> ok
<carlos> lifeless, thanks
<carlos> lifeless, hmm, the commands are the same
<carlos> lifeless, my problem is with cm.py build lp-configs/configs/canonical.com/launchpad/development
<lifeless> yes, but there is an rsync recipe on movetobazng
<kiko> lifeless, pong
<lifeless> which is much faster
<carlos> lifeless, I only have a 'launchpad' directory with a .bzr subdirectory inside that seems like didn't get any new information since 10 minutes ago
<lifeless> kiko: you have conflicts issues? want to look at them with me ?
<carlos> lifeless, ok
<kiko> yes, shortly.
<kiko> lifeless, hang on
<kiko> finishing my current session
<lifeless> carlos: the new info goes into .bzr/weaves and .bzr/revision-store
<carlos> lifeless, those are empty (ls -la says they are empty)
<lifeless> carlos: probably still downloading inventory weave then, its 30Mb
<carlos> that's why I wonder if the checkout is not working
<lifeless> carlos, patience!
<carlos> lifeless, yeah, I only have 14MB
<carlos> lifeless, ok...
<carlos> ;-)
<erchache> hi
<erchache> any admin of launchpad here?
<kiko> yes
<kiko> what's up?
<erchache> kiko: do you speak spanish?
<erchache> carlos perello esta aqui?
<spiv> carlos is around somewhere...
<carlos> erchache, I'm Carlos Perell
<erchache> en privadito
<carlos> ok
<\sh> guys...short question...do u have any possibility to export the LP user auth db somehow to LDAP?
<spiv> \sh: Mmm.
<spiv> We don't have that at the moment.
<spiv> Potentially we could hack something up.
<\sh> spiv: it was just an idea that i had yesterday when I read jdubs default content spec
<spiv> \sh: got a link to that?
<\sh> spiv: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/example-content
<spiv> Ta.
<\sh> spiv: the important stuff was the "do some random accounts on a jabber server" ,) which could be solved, if we provide an ubuntu jabber service, combine it with a ldap auth server
<spiv> Jabber doesn't inherently require ldap though.
<spiv> I suspect it would be easier to make the jabber server talk xml-rpc to our existing authserver than try to make our auth database fit sanely into ldap.
<\sh> spiv: well...depends on the implementation...
<spiv> I think it would be possible to do LDAP (e.g. using the ldaptor library for Twisted), but it would be a fair bit of work.
<\sh> spiv: jabberd2 can do some xmlrpc magic auth, for sure, but it's not what we would use...
<\sh> spiv: have to check if ejabberd (erlang stuff) is able to do some xmlrpc magic
<salgado> Kinnison, does gina stores information about the Uploaders field somewhere?
<fabbione> mpool: ???
<fabbione> kiko: ping?
<kiko> fabbione, pong?
<kiko> salgado, we don't store it separately, but we do store it with the DSC text.
<fabbione> kiko: we can't find mpool for the LP bof.
<kiko> is there something important to consider there?
<fabbione> kiko: do you know where he is?
<kiko> fabbione, I'll find him for you.
<fabbione> kiko: thanks
<kiko> I've pushed him your way, he was just outside the door
<salgado> kiko, how hard do you think it is to store this information?
<highvoltage> Launchpad is going down for maintenance NOW!
<kiko> salgado, not hard, but we need to change the schema for it
<highvoltage> :)
<bradb> SteveA: do you have a patch for that login bug which causes the "The requested page is protected. You will need to login." message?
<SteveA> yes and no
<SteveA> i have a patch for the error page being unhelpful
<SteveA> we need to work on a spec for exactly how to solve it, next week
<SteveA> oh
<SteveA> hang on
<SteveA> i'm talking about a different error
<SteveA> that's a stub error
<SteveA> stub stub stub stub stu
<SteveA> b
<bradb> CAN WE FIX THAT TODAY OOPSS CAPSLCKAa@*
<stub> Bug # ?
<bradb> i don't know that there's a bug open for it
<SteveA> no bug, no cookie
* bradb opens one
<bradb> stub: oh, no, it's already open. #3588.
<stub> Bug 3588
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3588: I'm told I have to log in, right after I've been logged in Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3588
<carlos> sabdfl, I suppose is ok to use chinstrap to convert our old bazaar branches if pqm's queue is empty, right?
<SteveA> carlos: better to do it at night
<SteveA> there are new requests coming in every so often
<SteveA> if you need a specific branch, the convert that branch
<carlos> ok
<carlos> salgado, ping
<carlos> lifeless: I got an error migrating a branch: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileUHxqFM.html
<kiko> salgado, did the converstion stop running?
<smurfix> Am I doing something wrong, or do I just not have the rights to change specs' status in launchpad yet (I'm a reviewer)?
<jamesh> lifeless: ping?
<salgado> kiko, yes
<salgado> lifeless, salgado@chinstrap [salgado] $ /home/warthogs/source/bzr.integration/bzr baz-import-branch guilherme.salgado@canonical.com/launchpad/13/smallfixes guilherme.salgado@canonical.com/launchpad--smallfixes--13 ../rocketfuel
<salgado> bzr: ERROR: Parent of "/home/warthogs/archives/salgado/guilherme.salgado@canonical.com/launchpad/13/smallfixes" does not exist.
<jamesh> koke: why don't you like blue?
<kiko> lifeless, fun for the world
<lifeless> salgado: mkdir .../13
<lifeless> kiko: ?
<lifeless> jamesh: pong
<jamesh> lifeless: I got a UnicodeEncodeError when trying to commit after merging from rocketfuel.  Any ideas about how to debug that?
<jamesh> https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/3823 <- the exception details
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3823: UnicodeEncodeError from "bzr commit" Fix req. for: bzr (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3823
<lifeless> jamesh: can you chat with mpool ?
<lifeless> or abentley
<jamesh> sure.
<Mithrandir> could we have something else than yellow on white for "Needs review"?  It's a bit hard to read.
<koke> jamesh: actually I like blue, it's just to be consistent with the distro
<stu1> SteveA: Where are the page tests for the login machinery, in particular the 'you don't have permission so here is the login form' bit
<Kinnison>         return sorted(bpklist, key=lambda a: a.binarypackagename.name)
<Kinnison> oh dear god
<SteveA> remember that sortKey() stuff that was specced a while back?
<Kinnison> yes
<Kinnison> Can we have it please?
<elmo> where's this moin patch?
<spiv> elmo: I have it.
<spiv> elmo: mirroring it to chinstrap atm.
<elmo> ok
<spiv> elmo: It's andrew.bennetts@canonical.com/moin--MoinLaunchpadAuthentication--0--patch-45.  There's a patch-46 improves the comments slightly.
<spiv> elmo: mirrored.
#launchpad 2005-11-08
<spiv> elmo: Have you had chance to try that Moin patch?
<elmo> spiv: no, I've been reviewing
<elmo> baz, schmaz
<koke> where should I announce https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/fair-exposure to get involved people subscribing?
<Kinnison> #ubz would be a good start
<koke> maybe I'll need the responsible person for https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/TotalExposure
<koke> it appears as created by sabdfl but I'm not sure if he wrote it, changes only show hostnames :(
<nhaines> Hello, all.  Well, you guessed it.  I have a stupid question.  :)
<nhaines> Launchpad (or something like it) would be perfect for some private work some friends and I are doing.  Does anyone know if Launchpad is available publically?
<kiko> nhaines, the code or..?
<kiko> do you mean you'd like to run a private project on a launchpad instance?
<nhaines> Yes, on a private launchpad implementation.
<nhaines> Binaries are easiest, but code would be just as good.
<nhaines> It sure looks like it's separated into different packages, but Canonical's site has no info on it.
<koke> kiko: I think he's shouting "give me the code"
<nhaines> Shouting is such a harsh word.  :)  But I'm really surprised it's not more visible.  If it's private that's fine, but I thought I'd see if anyone here knew for sure.
<nhaines> I really like Launchpad.  Of course, I understand why everyone going off and running their own instance of it would be a Bad Thing.
<koke> nhaines: sorry, that was one of my poor literal spanish->english translations
<SteveA> nhaines: there's an faq entry on this on the rosetta faq.  i'll find the link...
<nhaines> Oh, no worries, then, koke.  :)
<nhaines> Okay, I see that some parts of Launchpad are released and some are still private.  At least, that's what RosettaFAQ on the Ubuntu wiki is telling me.
<SteveA>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ#head-19c96d73454bfa4dc8a7b7e3fa487b4c9e34de19
<SteveA> yeah
<mpool> ah 
<mpool> good old question 19c96d 
<koke> SteveA: anyway I think a plain "no" would have been faster ;)
<nhaines> Ah, what a shame, *sigh*.  Well, at least bazaar and bzr are Free.  Plus, I didn't know there was a space probe named Rosetta.  I must've missed that one.  :)
<kiko> actually, the space probe was soyuz
<kiko> nhaines, however, there is intent to write a feature for "private" products
<SteveA> no way man, there was a rosetta space probe
<kiko> nhaines, would you be a potential user of this feature, or do you /require/ it to be hosted elsewhere?
<nhaines> It wouldn't be fair in the least to ask Canonical to manage the silly little side projects my friends work with.  But I also always feel more comfortable screwing around with a private install before I start using some public tool.
<LarstiQ> nhaines: does private imply closed?
<SteveA> you can use launchpad, try stuff out
<nhaines> Yes, I only wanted to track a couple of Web sites, hacked together tools, and private modifications my friends and I all help each other out with.
<nhaines> I'd like to get back into programming, and need to learn to use versioning tools and it seemed like it might be nice to get an entire suite that was integrated.
<nhaines> I'm frankly very impressed by launchpad and by Rosetta.  I'm glad the latter was more tightly integrated into Breezy.  :)
<SteveA> nhaines: you can register your stuff in launchpad as products
<nhaines> I don't feel comfortable with that, though.  These are personal websites with no relation to Ubuntu, Linux, or Open Source software or anything like that.  If there was any tiny relevance to the real world that'd be one thing.
<SteveA> okay.   lots of open source software that people use every day started off as personal hacks ;-)
<nhaines> Hehe, that's true!  ;)  Well, my ulterior motive is to find something I can use to track my freelance consulting products at some point in the future, although I am looking for a way to get involved with helping out Ubuntu.
<nhaines> Hoary (and breezy even moreso) is finally a distro I can hand to totally clueless computer users and say "try this, you'll like it."  Such an achievement deserves support.  :)
<elmo> someone pretty pls, with a cherry on top remind me of the baz incantation to get the diff between patch-44 and patch-45?
<SteveA> elmo: you can use baz get-changeset archive/c--b--v--patch-45
<SteveA> and then look at that
<elmo> there isn't a 'cvs diff -u -r 4r -r 45' analogue?
<spiv> elmo: That's crazy talk!
<elmo> RAHR
<spiv> elmo: I can mail you a diff.
<elmo> one day, I will have my REVENGE ON ALL YOU BAZ DEVELOPERS
<nhaines> By coding a 'cvs diff -u -r 4r -r 45' analogue?  :)
<nhaines> Whoops, the baby's awake--time to entertain a 7 month old.  Thanks for the answers, everyone!
<spiv> elmo: Actually, you can baz get patch-45, then do "baz diff patch-44", iirc.
<lifeless> kiko: ping
<kiko> lifeless, pong duderino
<lifeless> scheduling status ? we're in mugubu
<lifeless> kiko: ping
<lifeless> SteveA: ping
<kiko> lifeless, we're going there
<SteveA> lifeless: 
<lifeless> SteveA: ?<-
<lifeless> q
<kiko> mpool, ping?
<lifeless> hes in his room I think
<lifeless> wassup ?
<kiko> lifeless, a commit I'm doing is hung
<lifeless> kio erk
<lifeless> where are you ?
<mantiena> gi all
<mantiena> Seveas, labas
<matsubara> good morning!
<sabdfl> cprov: ping
<cprov> sabdfl: pon
* kiko waves
<ajmitch> morning kiko 
<\sh> guys...the sorting on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specstable is done via javascript? it's annoying when u hit the browsers back button and your sort order is just gone
<spiv_> \sh: Yeah, it is.
<koke> can I put simple wiki markup on bug comments in malone?
<spiv_> koke: Yes, but it won't work ;)
<\sh> spiv_: possible to carry the sort order somehow in the QUERY_STRING around? 
<spiv_> Less literally, no.  It just treats comments as plain unformatted text.
<koke> spiv_: any plans to have it?
<koke> just bold, italics and links
<koke> actually I just need named links right now
<spiv_> \sh: It'd be possible, but I'm not sure what a good UI would be.  Perhaps a google maps-like "Link to this page" link?
<spiv_> \sh: Worth filing a bug for, though, it would be nice to have, if we can think of a good way to do it.
<\sh> spiv_: ok...will do
<\sh> spiv_: or something like "Personalized options" for the LP UI makes much more sense now to me
<spiv_> (certainly the implementation wouldn't be hard, once we figure out a good UI)
<koke> spiv_: it's only client javascript or some ajax?
<spiv_> koke: purely client javascript.
<spiv_> The client has the complete table, so there's no need to talk to the server just to change the sort order.
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<salgado> bradb, are you working on https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/3308?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3308: Bugs on Maintained Software times out Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3308
<jamesh> Kinnison: would you happen to know the recommended way to go from a distro/sourcepackagename pair to a product?
<jamesh> (in the launchpad data model)
<Kinnison> packaging table
<Kinnison> Or there's SourcePackage.productseries
<Kinnison> Which kinda gives you what you want
<salgado> bradb_, are you working on https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/3308?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3308: Bugs on Maintained Software times out Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3308
* bradb_ reassigns the bug to salgado 
<lifeless> jblack: ping
<elmo> sabdfl: FYI, spiv's patch is on the moin now, and subscriptions are back on
<bradb> heads up: i'm working on improving inline attachment display
<koke> is there any way to have https://launchpad.net/people/motu/+assignedbugs not crashing every single time?
<jblack> lifeless: coming
<jblack> where areyou?
<bradb> koke: I'll look at it now.
<koke> thanks
<carlos> kiko, ping
<kiko> carlos, pong dude
<kiko> thanks elmo 
<bradb> Hm, this timeout may be happening because it appears that we're doing a seq scan on Person.merged
* bradb seeks the stubinator's assistance in understanding the EXPLAIN output
<bradb> Hm, according to SteveA_ the error message prints out the wrong SQL statement :/
<carlos> kiko, should we update specs status on the wiki or could we just remove them now that we are using launchpad to track the status?
<bradb> SteveA_: it *looks* to me though as though this SQL statement is possibly the correct one (it's part of the launchpad.View checker code for IBugTask), and that it is doing a scan on the Person table, and thus may be responsible for this timeout
<bradb> i.e. https://launchpad.net/errors/showEntry.html?id=1131054096.210.728296554262
<kiko> carlos, remove them.
<kiko> bradb, can you get me a pastebin?
<carlos> kiko, ok
<bradb> kiko: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileJcnlF4.html
<bradb> Having just spoken to jamesh, I'm taken to understand that this exception means the request itself took too long, rather than any one specific db query.
<bradb> IIUC though, doing a scan on Person could heavily contribute to the request taking too long. (All those perm checks!)
<salgado> bradb, that's not the query that timed out
<bradb> salgado: I know. No query timed out. :)
<bradb> The HTTP request itself timed out.
<bradb> i.e.
<bradb> class RequestExpired(RuntimeError): """Request has timed out.""" implements(IRequestExpired)
<bradb> vs.
<bradb> class RequestQueryTimedOut(RequestExpired): """A query that was part of a request timed out."""
<bradb> This one was the former
<bradb> The EXPLAIN for that query is interesting though:
<bradb>                            QUERY PLAN
<bradb> ----------------------------------------------------------------
<bradb>  Sort  (cost=4.71..4.71 rows=1 width=347)
<bradb>    Sort Key: displayname, familyname, givenname, name
<bradb>    ->  Seq Scan on person  (cost=0.00..4.70 rows=1 width=347)
<bradb>          Filter: ((name = 'admins'::text) AND (merged IS NULL))
<bradb> "Seq Scan on person" :)
<bradb> I have a hunch that this might be contributing heavily to making the HTTP request expire, but I won't know for certain until I confirm with stub.
<salgado> hmmm. maybe I got this wrong, but I thought that you get this when a query times out and then the exception handler tries to check if you should get a traceback or not. but to do that the exception handler issues some db queries using a transaction manager that's already gone
<salgado> bradb, isn't this related to https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3584?
<Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
<bradb> salgado: I'm not so sure. The place where the HTTP request times out (during the launchpad.View security checker for IBugTask) runs that *exact* same SQL :)
<bradb> kiko: does what I'm saying make any sense to you? could the seq scanning be a problem in the way i think it might be?
<spiv> bradb: did you do that explain on the production db?
<bradb> spiv: nope. I don't have access.
<bradb> But I don't see an index on Person.merged
<spiv> bradb: Then you can't really trust explain's output -- postgres can do interesting things.
<jamesh> bradb: I've got readonly access.  what do you want explained?
<spiv> e.g. if there aren't many rows in the table, it can decide that a seq scan is faster than using an index.
<bradb> jamesh: one sec, I'll give you a URL
<bradb> jamesh: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file8Rx2De.html
<jamesh>  Sort  (cost=4.02..4.03 rows=1 width=761)
<jamesh>    Sort Key: displayname, familyname, givenname, name
<jamesh>    ->  Index Scan using person_name_key on person  (cost=0.00..4.01 rows=1 width=761)
<jamesh>          Index Cond: (name = 'admins'::text)
<jamesh>          Filter: (merged IS NULL)
* bradb just got a RequestExpired changing the approver on a spec :/
<bradb> and again!
<bradb> and again!
<jordi> I'm getting RequestExpired too here and there.
<bradb> jamesh: right
<bradb> the fact that I'm getting that exception even when re-assigning a spec to another approver to me suggests our request timeout configuration is borked
<bradb> Anyone know where I can find useful debug output when I get an internal server error from the librarian trying to upload an attachment on localhost?
<spiv> bradb: there's a log file somewhere...
<spiv> from make run?
<bradb> ls /tmp/
<bradb> rm -rf /
<spiv> bradb: is this happening from "make run" or a test suite?
<bradb> from make run'ing LP and then trying to do an upload through the web ui
<spiv> bradb: Unless you've overridden it, it'll be on your stdout then.
<bradb> i saw this:
<bradb>   File "/home/bradb/canonical/malone-ubz-fixes/lib/canonical/librarian/client.py", line 123, in addFile
<spiv> (as defined by the "logfile -" line in the librarian_server section of configs/default/launchpad.conf)
<bradb>     raise UploadFailed, 'Server said: ' + response
<bradb> UploadFailed: Server said: 500 Internal server error
<spiv> It'll be prefixed with something like "2005/11/03 17:43 EST [-] "
<spiv> E.g. this is librarian server log output: 2005/11/03 17:43 EST [-]  canonical.librarian.libraryprotocol.FileUploadFactory starting on 58090
<bradb> ah
<bradb>           File "/home/bradb/canonical/malone-ubz-fixes/lib/canonical/librarian/storage.py", line 129, in _move
<bradb>             raise DuplicateFileIDError(fileID)
<bradb>         canonical.librarian.storage.DuplicateFileIDError: 37
<bradb> spiv: ever seen that one before on localhost?
<spiv> Not off the top of my head.
* spiv watches people perform wiki smash on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/KeySigning
<jblack> mpool:
<jblack> pub   1024D/06357400 2000-09-16
<jblack>       Key fingerprint = AAE4 8C76 58DA 5902 761D  247A 8A55 DA73 0635 7400
<jblack> Whoever did it, thank you
<spiv> bradb: that's a strange error... it shouldn't happen unless the client sends the same ID as a pre-existing file.
<spiv> bradb: Hmm, maybe you reset your database without cleaning out the librarian directory?
<jamesh> spiv: maybe "make schema" should clear the librarian directory then? :)
<spiv> jamesh: Quite likely :)
#launchpad 2005-11-09
<bradb> spiv: are you up for bug 3875?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3875: The Librarian encourages me to tell myself "I suck" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3875
<spiv> bradb: Sure.  Thanks!
<bradb> np, thanks for the debugging help
<spiv> bradb: Just to check, clearing out the librarian directory (/var/tmp/fatsam) fixed the issue?
<bradb> spiv: yep
<spiv> Ok, that's good :)
<jordi> let's go back to my dear rosetta-users.
<mdz> Kinnison: where is maya on your list of katie tools to port?
<bradb> Is there anyone else here that would like to see diff output appended to all LP merges?
<lifeless> Kinnison: ping
<lifeless> Kinnison: keyscripting problem, please find me
<spiv> bradb: It'd make false [trivial] s more obvious.
<bradb> spiv: That too. My main goal is to make it easier to keep up with changes in Malone.
<spiv> bradb: I'm happy to get diffs.
<spiv> I've asked lifeless for that back in the baz days, and he said "sure, give me a patch for pqm" ;)
<spiv> Hmm, actually I think I asked for a diffstat...
<spiv> But I think it's a good idea.  It makes it easier to see what's changed, and for people to comment on changes.
<bradb> lifeless: Would this be a one-line hack that you could easily add, or is it more involved than that?
<lifeless> bradb: not sure offhand
<Burgundavia> bradb, did that email change just hit production?
<bradb> no
<bradb> I fixed the headers a few weeks back
<bradb> FVDO of "Fixed"
<bradb> s/of //
<einheit_2> cprov: ping
<elmo> oh dear lord; please someone remind me how I get baz to tell me where I got a baz archive  from?
<SteveA> hahaha
<bob2> elmo: baz archives
<ondrej> mm all
<ondrej> how can one subscribe to bug in launchpad?
<ondrej> ok, I'll get later when there is normal time for western europe :-)
<fourdots> hi, just registered on launchpad.. sup
<fourdots> where can i get more info on devving on launchpad? what languages, etc.
<highvoltage> did ubuntite change to ubuntero?
<highvoltage> jordi: how is it that your karma dropped? you had more than 40000, now it's 36657, did the scoring change?
<arhat> ahem
<sabdfl> lifeless: ping
<sabdfl> bzr: ERROR: Parent directory of chinstrap:/home/warthogs/archives/mark/mark.shuttleworth@canonical.com/launchpad/pre-ubz-specs does not exist.
<sabdfl> it existed last time i pushed
<sabdfl> just did a system update, so got a new bzr
<sabdfl> it seemed to forget my push location for the branch during the update
<sabdfl> and now it seems to have an issue with rsync
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> does that dir exist if you ssh in ?
<sabdfl> yes
<lifeless> if so, I'm betting its not doing rsync, which will be because my native push has landed, but the native push support in bzrtools has not
<Kinnison> Argh, I have crap names for branches
<Kinnison> launchpad-pu* and launchpad-up* are both valid prefixes to my branch names
<lifeless> ddaa: is your branch still in home/david/launchpad/branches ?
<ddaa> lifeless: /home/warthogs/archives/david/launchpad/branches
<lifeless> jamesh: can you do a pending reviews run please
<SteveA> bug 3898
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3898: Introduce Pornlets in Launchpad Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3898
<sivang> SteveA: *porn*lets ? :) aren't those supposed to be Portlets? 
<Kinnison> kiko: ETA on Gina finishing?
<kiko> Kinnison, tomorrow morning?
<Kinnison> urgh
* Kinnison will want to run tests of the publisher against staging
<Kinnison> I can hold off on them until then though
<kiko> Kinnison, publish warty in 1h
<kiko> how about that?
<Kinnison> kiko: Sharelock Deadlocks on the publishing table
<kiko> sheesh
<kiko> Kinnison, want us to interrupt the run once warty is done?
<Kinnison> It's the way of the world when you put to big fuckoff behemoths in place
<Kinnison> publishing run will take a few hours
<Kinnison> let it continue
<Kinnison> I can do stuff locally for now
<Kinnison> so long as I get precedence tomorrow I'm happy
#launchpad 2005-11-10
<bradb_> Keybuk, jbailey: dudes?
<Keybuk> we're in the chairs, come! :p
<bradb_> oh, ok
* bradb_ is currently assigned to watching jdub's laptop. We'll come over shortly.
<bradb_> salgado: we fixed that problem with "bugs I reported" showing fixed bugs, right?
<uws> bradb_: Thanks for fixing the  +bugs -> +bugs-all  instead of  +bugs -> +bugs-open  issue
<salgado> bradb_, yes, it's fixed on this branch I'm working on right now
<alessio> alessio Launchpad does not currently support validation of sign-only GPG keys. If you add an encryption subkey (using gpg --edit-key) and upload your key again, you should be able to import the key.
<alessio> alessio bu i have done a subkey
<alessio> alessio and i have resend he key
<alessio> alessio a subkey of this type  (6) RSA (encrypt only)
<alessio> can anyone help me?
<bradb_> stub: I want to try optimizing the privacy query. Where can I get a dump of staging or prod to try some stuff out?
* bradb_ adds batching meanwhile
<bradb_> Hey, that's what an empty bug search should do, perhaps.
<kiko> ahoy
<bradb_> i.e. suggest that maybe you want to _File a Bug_
<kiko> well
<bradb_> a cheap guided bug form
<kiko> hmm
<jordi> so, kiko
<jordi> where were you at 6:30 man
<kiko> buying cocaine
<jamesh> jordi: he probably went without you when you didn't turn up at 4:15
<jordi> kiko: got any left?
<stub> kiko: Run gina just against breezy?
<stub> bradb_: If you can give me any suspect SQL queries, I'll have a look at it. In many cases I have been able to fix the issue by creating specific indexes or reordering the query slightly.
* Kinnison pouts
<Kinnison> I made a luvley generic system we could use for that if only we had a gajillion CPUs
* stub runs gina on staging against breezy
<Kinnison> kiko, dude, gina tests fail on my laptop
<Kinnison> can you come and help me debug them
* Kinnison wants to have a clean branch to merge
<kiko> Kinnison, yeah. what did you change in her?
<Kinnison> kiko: not touched her
<Kinnison> kiko: I've been fiddling with distrorelease though
<kiko> weird.
<kiko> ok
<kiko> what's the error?
<Kinnison> aha, I think you're calling distroreleaseset.new
<kiko> yeah, look at the first error
<Kinnison> s'hard when they fly by fast
<kiko> Kinnison, | less
* Kinnison teeeed 'em
<kiko> tttttted
<bradb_> stub: mailed. this speed issue is fairly critical.
<Kinnison> stub: can I get a db patch reviewed please?
<stub> bradb_: That query runs in 0.2ms. I already recall having optimized it. Either there are other dud queries on that page, or (as I suspect) way too many queries are being executed causing cumulative time. Last time I looked at it, there were hundreds of DB queries being executed.
<stub> Kinnison: paste please
<Kinnison> ALTER TABLE DistroRelease DROP COLUMN Components;
<Kinnison> ALTER TABLE DistroRelease DROP COLUMN Sections;
<Kinnison> -- END
<bradb_> stub: did you change BugTask.assignee = ... to MOTU's id?
<stub> bradb_: Batching will be the big win
<stub> bradb_: I'll try that
<stub> bradb_: That takes 73ms.
<stub> bradb_: Not a problem
<Kinnison> stub: ^^
<stub> Kinnison: If we drop those columns, do we need the tables they reference?
<kiko> bradb_, look at your postgresql logs
<Kinnison> they reference SCHEMA
<kiko> for a reload
<stub> Kinnison: Ok. Approved. patch-25-54-0.sql
<bradb_> stub: What kind of profiling data get you can get back from a request to a given URL logged in as a given user?
<bradb_> I'd like to be shown something that gives an idea of exactly where time is being spent
<Kinnison> stub: thanks dude
<stub> bradb_: Don't know I'm afraid. We can extract logs of queries and their durations, but that is only the DB side (and a pita to do on production, but we throught of a way to make it easier that will be implemented soon)
* bradb_ wonders if it's the security checking code
<stub> bradb_: I think that if you are displaying 100 bugs, it is issuing 100 seperate db queries to display the assignees name.
<kiko> stub, bradb_: if that is the case, we should probably create a view for it.
<stub> bradb_: Which could be done in a single query, but I don't know how easy to refactor the python to do it.
<stub> Or just issue 'SELECT displayname, surname, givenname from person where id in ( [comma seperated list of assignee ids]  )'
<kiko> bradb_, a simple view with a single extra column can work wonders for you. it's a bit of database class overhead though.
<kiko> it did solve serious problems in soyuz though.
<kiko> (one year ago)
<zyga> carlos: ping
<zyga> carlos: in #u-desktop if you could
<spiv> sub   4096g/8CF9CA35 2005-11-05 [expires: 2007-11-05] 
* spiv wonders how that got pasted.
<sivang> lifeless: do you think you will have time to do the twisted framework BOF today? (just trying to find out if not, and use that time for something else ;-) )
<lifeless> sivang: probly not, 
<Kinnison> kiko: publishing run on drescher finished
<Kinnison> kiko: I'm almost ready to try another run, do you mind?
<kiko> Kinnison, not at all -- do you need to run it again though?
<kiko> and why, if you do?
<SteveA> kiko: ping
<kiko> what?
<kiko> SteveA, tell me everyting
<kiko> and everything
<Kinnison> kiko: because I'm fixing bugs as I go
<kiko> oh
<kiko> sure
* Kinnison is re-running it to add Origin/Bugs headers and the Task headers
<kiko> ok
<Kinnison> mdz: Once this run is done it'd be nice if you can have a look at the archive
<Kinnison> mdz: do you have a login on drescher?
<mdz> Kinnison: I will find out if I do
<mdz> Kinnison: no, I don't
<Kinnison> and irritatingly we don't seem to export the archive over http
<Kinnison> Do you want to poke elmo or shall I?
<SteveA> hi kiko. i 'm up on reception with jane, with phone reception in case claire calls.
<fabbione> hey guys
<SteveA> i'm doing ddaa's code review up here
<kiko> SteveA, oh, ok.
<fabbione> sorry if i don't remember, but who is in charge of teams and people?
<kiko> fabbione, it's salgado
<Kinnison> kiko: almost time to run apt-ftparchive :-)
<fabbione> kiko: ok
<fabbione> salgado: ping?
<Kinnison> kiko: assuming it runs :-)
<salgado> fabbione, pong
<fabbione> salgado: yo. are you busy?
<salgado> fabbione, I'm finishing some changes I started yesterday. have something for me?
<fabbione> salgado: i need to unroll a loop
<fabbione> and understand how to assign pkgs to a team
<salgado> fabbione, where are you now?
<kiko> fabbione, because you want bugs to be filed on them?
<kiko> if so, it's not so trivial because the maintainer is inferred from the package maintainer field
<fabbione> sabdfl: i am one of the small rooms hidden behind the bar
<fabbione> ops
<fabbione> ^^ salgado
<fabbione> kiko: well there are several minor changes i would like to see there to manually associate pkgs to maintainers
<kiko> yeah
<fabbione> kiko: but there is still a loop that needs to be unrolled
<kiko> that needs fixing definitely
<fabbione> for ex:
<fabbione> group foo can upload to main
<fabbione> group bar manages only a strict subset of pkgs in main
<fabbione> some people in group bar do not have full main upload privileges
<fabbione> now
<Kinnison> fabbione: Not currently supported
<fabbione> in order for group bar to upload to main
<fabbione> group bar needs to be part of foo
<fabbione> (read foo as ubuntu-core-devel)
<fabbione> so how can we make this to work?
<Kinnison> Currently we can't
<Kinnison> we've spoken about having more granular upload privs
<fabbione> Kinnison: ok
<Kinnison> we don't currently have them
<fabbione> is there a spec or plan to do it?
<fabbione> or is it all handwaving
<fabbione> ?
<Kinnison> check out https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/UploadPrivileges
<fabbione> Kinnison: thanks
<fabbione> Kinnison: make sense :)
<Kinnison> fabbione: cool
<fabbione> what about the manual link between pkgs and maintainers (people/team)?
<Kinnison> Anyone on the review team want a small review?
<kiko> not done either
<fabbione> kiko: same question.. is there a spec/plan or is it still handwaving?
<fabbione> Kinnison: go ahead and send it here
<kiko> fabbione, that is missing a spec, I believe.
<Kinnison> fabbione: erm, I meant the launchpad code-reviews team :-)
<fabbione> kiko: i assume you are going to work on it :P
<fabbione> Kinnison: ehehe ok :)
<Kinnison> fabbione: feel free to do the review if you want
<fabbione> kiko: (specially if you want to wake up tomorrow ;))
<kiko> Kinnison, I can review
<kiko> fabbione, I could, but probably npw
<kiko> not
<Kinnison> kiko: Cool, you want to come over and do it here, or do you want a diff
<fabbione> Kinnison: nah.. i don't have enough background to do it..
<Kinnison> kiko: it'll take a while before jamesh's scripts catch up to it
<kiko> Kinnison, I'll walk over
<Kinnison> kiko: coolio
* Kinnison preps a diff
<Kinnison> kiko: I'll yell when I have the diff ready
<jamesh> Kinnison: it runs once an hour right now
<Kinnison> jamesh: oooh
<Kinnison> jamesh: cool
<Kinnison> jamesh: it's that quick?
<Kinnison> jamesh: on the hour?
<stub> SteveA: ping
<stub> SteveA: Guy looking for a laptop
<jamesh> Kinnison: there isn't that many branches on the page, which contributes to the speed ...
<Kinnison> jamesh: so when does it run?
<jamesh> Kinnison: the run date is at the top of the page
<jamesh> it is part way through a run right now
<Kinnison> oh well
<Kinnison> so I lose
<sivang> 17:34 < zyga> I've updated my /usr/share/applications
<sivang> 17:34 < zyga> I'll restart to check if the startup is notacibly slower
<sivang> 17:34 < zyga> brb
<sivang> oops
<sivang> sorry
<zyga> sivang: ?
<zyga> np
<sivang> my touchpad seem to get crazy
<SteveA> SteveA: right now?
<SteveA> stub: right now?
<SteveA> stub: i'm in muguet if anyone wants to talk with me
<stub> SteveA: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileTaEgiU.html
<stub> Doit bitch
* stub goes to lunch
<elmo> mdz/kiko: done
<kiko> thanks elmo rocking as usual
<mdz> elmo: zsh on drescher would be lovely
<janimo> can external SVN projects be imported in launchpad only if the yhave coressponding packages in ubuntu?
<kiko> darn. the answer was no.
<kiko> janimo, the answer is no. you just need to register the product.
<kiko> and talk to jblack or lifeless 
<janimo> kiko,  thanks.
<janimo> so I talk to them before/after/instead of filling out the import forms for the product?(xfce alreday regsitered just not tracked)
<kiko> janimo, you can do it aftrwards
* ..[topic/#launchpad:kiko] : kiko_328
<janimo> any ETA on the switch to bzr?
<kiko> Kinnison, ping?
<kiko> janimo, it is done
<kiko> can somebody get me Kinnison?
<Kinnison> no
<kiko> now I need stub
<kiko> janimo, but not for imports, sorry -- so you'll get baz for now, and bzr afterwards
<janimo> kiko,  any idea when bzr will be here for imports too?
<bradb_> kiko: dude, i just thought of something.
<bradb_> why do we even need the "Request fix:" links?
<kiko> bradb_, hmmm. why wouldn't we?
<bradb_> the fact that I've added release targeting and null bugtask fu seems to allow their disappearance entirely. i have serious doubts that *anyone* would notice their disappearance :)
<bradb_> the only feedback i've gotten about them thus far is "what are these for?"
<kiko> bradb_, do you understand how much pain you are inviting by changing that part of the page?
<bradb_> kiko: basically you're saying you don't think the sab will buy into it?
<bradb_> kiko: can you give an example of a non-contrived use case for those links?
<SteveA> bradb_: fix other things first
<kiko> bradb_, I'm saying that area is an area which is controversial. I'd stay away from there
<bradb_> kiko: right
<kiko> stub!
<stub> kiko: still here
<kiko> how are you doing?
<kiko> stub, I'll need a gina run soon
<stub> kiko: ok
<kiko> stub, we missed the backports pockets.
<Mez> ...?
<stub> kiko: You have new code, or should I just run the existing code on staging?
<kiko> stub, I will have new code -- I need to add it to a dbschema.
<kiko> it does mean waiting for PQM
<stub> kiko: Can you update the staging config too in your commit?
<kiko> stub, hmmm. yes, I think I can
<Mez> is this the new soyuz stuff being put into place then?
<kiko> Mez, in testing, but yes
<kiko> oh, that's right Mez -- you're the backports dude
<kiko> so I forgot your pocket
<kiko> adding it :)
<elmo> mdz: done
* Mez has no idea what you mean about my poket 
<Mez> but *shrusg*
<Mez> https://staging.ubuntu.com/+builds/+build/134165
<kiko> Mez, is that a system error?
<Mez> yes
<Mez> hmm
<Mez> the packages are a lil borked
<Mez> https://staging.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+package/k3b-mp3
<Mez> k3b-mp3
<Mez> click on i386
<Mez> https://staging.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/breezy/i386/k3b-mp3/0.12.2-0ubuntu2
<Mez> and it says it's  k3blibs-dev
<mdz> elmo: you are my hero
<Mez> in fact - they all show as k3blibs-dev
<Mez> and I guess in other packages they show as the last package there
<Kinnison> is launchpad's extra slowness a known-issue right now?
<Kinnison> Or is it my laptop being shit?
<Kinnison> bug 3256, has it been updated?
<Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
<Kinnison> apparently not
<Kinnison> bug 3256, has it been updated now?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug #3256: distrorelease needs component/section cleaning up Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Daniel Silverstone, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3256
<Kinnison> huzzah
<Kinnison> took long enough
* Kinnison spanks launchpad
<stub> SteveA: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filed0pgBI.html
<bradb_> stub: Can we do a new rollout if/when my patch lands? (currently #1 in pqm's queue) It will hopefully fix the +assignedbugs problem.
<stub> bradb_: ok, although I'd like to wait until I can land mine too. Are people here waiting to see it?
<stub> Of course, that involves someone poking SteveA until he looks at that paste
<carlos> jordi, ping!
<kiko> ddaa, can you put off running baz-import until tomorrow night? PQM is really really slow atm
<kiko> and I have some critical fixes to land for the archive side of things
<kiko> ddaa, are you running for all your branches, and is it close to ending?
<ddaa> yes, yes, no idea
<ddaa> I think I should just nice it
<kiko> if you could
<SteveA> nice won't help
<SteveA> it is IO bound
<spiv> ddaa: nice sadly doesn't help with io contention.
<SteveA> not cpu bound
<kiko> ionice?
<ddaa> bah... I just suspended it
<ddaa> when can I start it again?
<kiko> ddaa, tomorrow evening?
<kiko> pleeeeze
<Keybuk> meh @ topic ?
<kiko> hmmm
<salgado> bradb_, did that branch of yours that was on pqm a few minutes ago got merged?
* ..[topic/#launchpad:kiko] : it's saturday
<bradb_> salgado: NOPE
<kiko> failure
* bradb_ dies
<bradb_> salgado: It's resubmitted
<salgado> bradb_, I don't understand why you wrote this fix. you saw that I already have it on my branch. kiko is reviewing it
<bradb_> salgado: ? I told you in the room a few hours ago that I was working on it. If I would have saw that you added batching to +assignedbugs, rest assured I wouldn't have added it. :)
<salgado> bradb_, I changed the whole +assignedbugs to use the same base view class and macros that are used in the bug listings of products/distro/distroreleases
<salgado> so, yes, they have batching
<uws>  "batching"  == cutting a list in pieces/subpages ?
<salgado> I thouhgt you were changing those macros and not the +assignedbugs
<salgado> uws, yes
<bradb_> salgado: this was the reason i couldn't continue working with you to land the targetnamecache stuff. sorry for the confusion.
<salgado> bradb_, no worries. I've seen your diff already, and it looks like it won't be too much trouble to solve the conflicts
<bradb_> ok, that's good to hear :)
#launchpad 2005-11-11
<kiko> stub, chinstrap.ubuntu.com:/home/warthogs/archives/kiko/launchpad/gina-production/
<stub> k
<salgado> stub, are you planning a rollout soon?
<stub> salgado: This evening
<stub> salgado: or whenever all that junk in the pqm gets through
<kiko> fuck pqm today dude
<kiko> stub, can you store the current gina logs so I can use them as reference?
<salgado> stub, would you wait for this branch that I just added to pqm's queue before doing the rollout?
<kiko> jamesh, any clue why the current pending-reviews run is so slow?
<kiko> mdz, ping?
<mdz> kiko: in-a-BOF-pong
<kiko> mdz, could you run a gobby session?
<kiko> your box is potpal, right?
<mdz> yes
* kiko waits for the mdz gobby
<mdz> I'm in a discussion right now; is it urgent?
<Kinnison> kiko: have you got that patch landed yet?
<kiko> Kinnison, it's in kiko/launchpad/gina-production
<Kinnison> </impatient></indolent></irritible>
<kiko> mdz, not entirely, but you don't need to be in it -- just run it and add a file
<kiko> mdz, you're the only box salgado and I can reach simulaneously (wtf why)
<Kinnison> kiko: can you ping stupor?
* Kinnison is happy to stuff a gobby session down <- there
<kiko> no, and I have no idea why
<Kinnison> bizarre
<kiko> indeed it is
<kiko> PQM gobbles one more up
<Kinnison> aye
<mdz> kiko: done
<kiko> thanks mdz
<stub> kiko: Gina is running again
<kiko> thanks stub 
<kiko> stub, did you nuke the publishing records?
<kiko> stub, aargh
<stub> kiko: no
<kiko> <kiko> stub, can you store the current gina logs so I can use them as reference?
<kiko> stub, then...
<kiko> stub, also, I updated the staging config to include a hoary-backports pocket
<Kinnison> I did
<kiko> it needs to be configured in the front-end
<Kinnison> daft buggers
<Kinnison> hour+ ago
<jamesh> kiko: no.
<stub> kiko: Lost the warty log but the rest are backed up 
<jamesh> kiko: it looks like ddaa's branch is the one taking ages to check
<kiko> thanks stub 
<stub> Erm... I'm going to need to restart and nuke the librarian contents
<stub> Or we won't have enough disk space, since all the records were deleted
<kiko> stub, let me talk to you
<sivang> anybody has an idea when the wrap out talks are taking place?
<kiko> in hell
<kiko> the devil is wrapping gina up in lettuce leaves
* Kinnison raises an eyebrow
<kiko> stub, what's the good news?
<stub> kiko: Waiting on database records to delete.
<kiko> cool
<jordi> kiko: are you getting drunk today
<jordi> 1h to go man
<kiko> rock rock
<kiko> stub, also, don't forget to add the hoary-backports option (if it's necessary -- I don't remember if it is)
<kiko> I added the section to the staging config (I think)
<stub> kiko: Already done, and also added the extra architectures
<kiko> okay, rock on solid
<stub> kiko: ok - she is running
<stub> argh... killed
<stub> Try that again
<stub> kiko: ok. Take 3 (or whatever)
<lifeless> ddaa: ?
<lifeless> ddaa: ping
<lifeless> you pung me
<lifeless> you said 'irc'
<lifeless> ddaa: what ping ?
<ddaa> >> === modified file 'lib/canonical/launchpad/interfaces/branch.py'
<ddaa> >> +    # Stats and status attributes
<ddaa> >> +    starred = Attribute("How many stars this branch has.")
<ddaa> I think you should explain what a 'star' is.
<ddaa> Here wil be okay
<lifeless> I dont know, I did not write that
<ddaa> I wrote it. But from the spec you wrote.
<ddaa> I have no idea what this branch starring stuff is.
<lifeless> stars was a mark thing
<lifeless> like 'important branches'
<robaqqq> hi all
<robaqqq> i'm playing with rosetta right now and have a problem: i remeber translating some command, but dont remeber exact translation. since i need to keep consistency i want to find it. is it possible to search for all occurences of term in1 program and 1 language?
<robaqqq> hmm... is it channel for ghosts and bots only?
<Arclite> It's sunday.
* ..[topic/#launchpad:Nafallo] : it's sunday
<Nafallo> indeed
<cprov> ehe and my lappy still burning ... what conference !!!
* cprov gives up ... time to sleep 
<Lathiat> any rosetta people about?
#launchpad 2005-11-12
<poningru> is launchpad down?
<poningru> getting a 503
<poningru> nm
<cprov> guys, could you unhide product soyuz in production ASAP, it has important specs target to ubz
<Kinnison> stub: ^^
<stub> Bu 3830
<stub> Bug 3830
<Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse Data returned by Malone: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'group'
<stub> Heh. Yay for 'HEAD' rollouts
<Kinnison> heh
<Kinnison> What does ubugtu parse?
<cprov> certainly production logs ... great idea
<BjornT> i think Ubugtu parses the web pages
<Kinnison> 2005-11-07T11:29:32 INFO root Startup time: 54.382 sec real, 8.950 sec CPU
<Kinnison> ouch, launchpad takes a while to start on my laptop
<kiko> gina rocks my baby
<sabdfl> stub: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+spec/require-main-series
<kiko> stub, almost ready for a re-roll
<sabdfl> the combination of status and wiki page is... interesting ;-)
<kiko> stub, so tell me, should I try to pqm-merge?
<sabdfl> kiko: there's a queue of 3/4 merges, and it's not going quickly
<stub> sabdfl: So do I have to supply a list of binary packages to the debbugs importer?
<stub> $ env LPCONFIG=staging python create-debwatches.py --debbugs=/srv/bugs-mirror.debian.org -v
<stub> 18:04:44 INFO    Setting up utilities...
<stub> 18:04:46 INFO    Connecting to database...
<stub> 18:04:46 INFO    Calculating target package set...
<stub> 18:04:46 INFO    0 binary packages targeted.
<stub> 18:04:46 INFO    80 debian bugs previously imported.
<stub> 18:04:46 INFO    Selecting new debian bugs...
<stub> 18:04:48 INFO    0 debian bugs ready to import.
<stub> 18:04:48 INFO    Sorting bugs...
<stub> 18:04:48 INFO    Importing bugs...
<stub> 18:04:48 INFO    Done!
<kiko> sabdfl, thanks for the heads-up :)
<Kinnison> bradb: earlier, I didn't mean to sound quite as militant as I clearly did. Sorry if I came across as being unpleasant
* Kinnison is just worried that other parts of launchpad are gonna make it harder and harder for him to do derivatives when the time comes
<bradb> Kinnison: no worries
<imnes> I'm having trouble registering with launchpad.net.  It's not sending me the new account confirmation email.
<Kinnison> imnes: it can take a little while IME
<bradb> Kinnison: "militant" means "supporter" in French :P
<imnes> It's been maybe 2 hours since first try.
<Kinnison> bradb: support-hose!
<imnes> I'll check my email again later and see if it's gone,  just wanted to be sure there wasn't some problem with it.
<Kinnison> bradb: package-subscription. I'm marked as drafter and you as assignee
<Kinnison> bradb: any clue what we're due to do for that?
<bradb> Kinnison: basically just make sure that I'm on the right track (because I've already started working on it)
<Kinnison> joy
<Kinnison> do we get a bof on it today?
<bradb> i believe so
<Kinnison> aah yes, 6pm
<Kinnison> hurrah, I'm not on reviewers today
<kiko> stub, so chinstrap.ubuntu.com:/home/warthogs/archives/kiko/launchpad/gina-production/ is mirrored up for your enjoyment
<kiko> stub, do the full nuke, etc, before running
<kiko> apologies in advance
<saltuis> helloa all, at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu is 6.04 as stable relase.. bug?
<MagicFab> #ubuntu
<MagicFab> is lagging badly - anyone ?
* ..[topic/#launchpad:ddaa] : It's monday. Launchpad crew is at UBZ, Montreal, Canada.
#launchpad 2005-11-13
<hid> hi all
<hid> i've a question... i just created a new project in the https://launchpad.net/ ... exist a way to delete it?
<kiko> hey hey
<kiko> what's going on?
<kiko> hid, why would you want to delete it?
<kiko-zzz> hey mdz 
<kiko-zzz> no gina errors so far
<kiko-zzz> 50% of hoary
<kiko-zzz> whee
<mdz> kiko-zzz: woo
<mdz> kiko-zzz: care to do an archive compare?
<kiko-zzz> mdz, can't really do it without an archive run, and for that I need Kinnison 
<mdz> kiko-zzz: ...
<kiko-zzz> tomorrow morning we trigger it
<kiko-zzz> before breakfast
<kiko-zzz> after breakfast 
<kiko-zzz> we compare
<kiko-zzz> did you get confirmation on the source package priority crap/
<kiko-zzz> hmm 7m past bedtime
<kiko-zzz> so mdz, do you like franz ferdinand?
<mdz> I did not get confirmation
<kiko-zzz> kiko@asuka:/srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/gina-logs$ grep ERR *
<kiko-zzz> kiko@asuka:/srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/gina-logs$ 
<mdz> I am not familiar with the music of franz ferdinand
<kiko-zzz> you should be. it is good.
<kiko-zzz> can you reach my IP?
<mdz> yes
<kiko-zzz> and I can reach yours, joy.
<kiko-zzz> hmmm
<kiko-zzz> how do I music share this stuff?
<mdz> tar cvf - * | nc -q0 66.103.220.156 1234
<kiko-zzz> very funny
<mdz> I am not making a joke
<kiko-zzz> okay, lozenge:8000
<kiko-zzz> I am running SimpleHTTPServer.py
<kiko-zzz> it works dot com
<kiko-zzz> http://localhost:8000/salgado1/Franz%20Ferdinand/
<kiko-zzz> mdz, that's the first album
<kiko-zzz> I have the second album somewhere
<kiko-zzz> if you like it I'll get you the second
* kiko-zzz goes to be now, really
<kiko-zzz> oh, they are both together
<kiko-zzz> the first album is homonimous
<kiko-zzz> homonymous
<kiko-zzz> never mind
* kiko-zzz zzz
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<janimo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable
<janimo> it says it is sorted by priority by default but seems unsorted :)
<matsubara> good morning!
<Nafallo> morning matsubara :-)
<sivang> Morning launchpadders!
<kiko-zzz> morning
<sivang> yo kiko-zzz dude
<sivang> sleeping?
<kiko-zzz> sivang, he just left to bike around 
<kiko-zzz> (i am fabbione(
<sivang> oh, hehe
<sivang> fabbione-kiko: you should go visit mount royal, it's amazing
<kiko-zzz> sivang, we have been there already
<jordi> kiko-biking: SO
<jordi> kiko-biking: what's the fucking story man
<jordi> you left me here, alone, sleeping...
<jordi> in my warm and comfy bed 
<fabbione> jordi: he just come back
<fabbione> i think he is in the shower now
<jordi> nod
<jordi> I'll kick his ass man
<jordi> have you guys had breakfast
<salgado> matsubara, ping
<matsubara> salgado: pong
<salgado> matsubara, how's it going with the subscribed bugs?
<matsubara> salgado: almost finished. I'm writing the tests right now.
<salgado> matsubara, great. send me the patch once you've finished
<matsubara> salgado: ok
<jordi> kiko: seen this?
<jordi> 10:05 < janimo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable
<jordi> 10:05 < janimo> it says it is sorted by priority by default but seems unsorted :)
<Burgundavia> kiko, that is a regression since about 8 hours ago
<Nafallo> jordi: hi! could you erase forcefully sv_SE from gnomebaker in rosetta please :-)
<Nafallo> (leave sv though)
<jordi> Nafallo: it's not easy. I'll see who aI can poke.
<Nafallo> jordi: oki, thanx :-)
<elmo> is there some way to get the number of translations done per template by a person on a person's translation tab/page?
<sabdfl> elmo: it DOS's the database
<sabdfl> we used to have that
<sabdfl> hmm...
<sabdfl> actually
<sabdfl> maybe we still have it
<elmo> ah - it'd be useful for CC purposes
<sabdfl> elmo: file a bug on me
<sabdfl> err
<sabdfl> on rosetta, on launchpad, assigned to me
<elmo> I could file bugs on you all day... ;-P
<elmo> sabdfl: kiko would like me to point out to you that he's the only one in the group photo who's working on his laptop during the photos
<elmo> he'd appreciate the brownie points for being so keen, kthx
* kiko kicks elmo 
<sabdfl> if he's looking for brownie points he should RIDE THE WILD ELMO
* Kinnison notes that his laptop is in his hand and is working for him
<Kinnison> thusly I get more points because I fulfilled the unix laziness maxim
<Kinnison> kiko: source run finished
<Kinnison> kiko: you suck
<kiko> Kinnison, thanks
<kiko> mdz, can you check the Sources files?
<Kinnison> Gosh, I just got four-way forked by sladen
<sladen> cluster-fork
* Kinnison sniggers
<Kinnison> bradb_: ping
<Kinnison> sabdfl: bof time
<Kinnison> SteveA: bof time
<Kinnison> stub: bof time
<mdz> kiko: better, but still weird
<mdz> kiko: many duplicate entries
<kiko> mdz, that's bad.
<mdz>  - |  114 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++----- 1 file changed, 106 insertions(+), 8 deletions(-)
<mdz> that's hoary/main/Sources
<mdz> kiko: ~mdz/output on drescher
<niemeyer> mdz: You've got mail!
<niemeyer> :)
<kiko> man I suck
<niemeyer> kiko: We respect you anyway..
<jordi> kiko: oh man I need you so much man
* uws forces the mental picture out of his mind after combining kiko's last line and jordi's last line
<jordi> uws: come on
<uws> (my irssi window was only 8 lines high, sorry about that)
<jordi> kiko: so we never discused oral sex last night
* uws gone: autoaway after.. ehm, some seconds :-p
<jordi> heh
<kiko> jordi, hmm, oral sex
<jordi> kiko: let's do oral communication dude
<stub> kiko: conficts
<kiko> stub, the wonders of bzr
<kiko> I bet it conflicted against the same changes
<stub> I'll just pull --overwrite your branch
<kiko> yeah.
<kiko> stub, aaron tells me that merge --reprocess would have minimized the conflicts (because it ignores the base in the conflict handling)
<carlos> stub, please, ping me when you are back to your computer. Thanks
<stub> carlos: Lunch!
<carlos> stub, :-P
<carlos> it's a quick question!
<carlos> really!
<stub> Hurry!
<Fist_of_Heaven> so i tried to register on launchpad, and it appeared that my e-mailadress ending in @bredband.net didn't receive any confirmation mails. I tried with my hotmail-adress and it was instant
<Fist_of_Heaven> comments? possible bug?
<SteveA> Fist_of_Heaven: can you msg me your bredband.net email address?
<SteveA> i'll try sending you mail from that server
* ..[topic/#launchpad:SteveA] : It's tuesday. Launchpad crew is at UBZ, Montreal, Canada.
<SteveA> BjornT: specs to review?  it doesn't have to be the final review.
* SteveA reviews https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/DefaultAffectsTarget
<lips> hi all i have some question regarding rosetta is there anyone familiar with it?
<SteveA> lips: ask your questions here, and probably someone will answer.
<SteveA> also see the rosetta FAQ
<SteveA> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ
<lips> i'm in the middle of translating of a large program, and i have run into some term i was translating few weeks ago
<lips> there are several ways of translating this term, but i want to be consistent
<lips> how to find this particular term in rosetta database (no, i dont remeber its number, and exact frase)
<jordi> lips: Rosetta doesn't have a way of searching for specific strings, but carlos is actively working on the feature right now
<lips> jordi thanks 
#launchpad 2006-11-06
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70511 in malone "Use packaging links on +distrotask" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70511
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70518 in launchpad "Notify team members when their membership is going to expire" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70518
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70519 in launchpad "Need to allow team members to renew their own membership once it gets close to the membership's expiration date" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70519
<malcc> We should make Ubugtu also report on bugs fixed
<malcc> Otherwise some days this channel is just depressing
<jamesh> we could just disable filing of new bugs
<jamesh> say that launchpad doesn't use malone for bug tracking anymore
<malcc> We could use bugzilla
<stub> We could go home
<malcc> Hmm, and I set out to make the channel less depressing. Didn't really get what I was gaming for there...
<danilos> malcc: you need to use smileys :) you know, be cheerful :D
<carlos> stub: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/filecXfcFI.html
<carlos> stub: could you review it?
<carlos> hmm, I guess it would be [trivial] ... but anyway...
<lifeless> jamesh: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/70524
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70524 in launchpad "product release finder not finding releases for bzrtools 0.12" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<jamesh> lifeless: could you add what the tarball pattern is in the bug, so I can test things?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70524 in launchpad "product release finder not finding releases for bzrtools 0.12" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70524
<stub> carlos: r=stub
<carlos> stub: hmm I sent it already as [trivial]  :-P
<stub> Fine. It is
<carlos> but thanks
<carlos> btw
<carlos> stub: at https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/2594 there is a warning that says:
<carlos> DeprecationWarning: Passing dbuser parameter to initZopeless will soon be
<carlos> mandatory
<carlos> stub: that was more than one year ago...
<carlos> what's "soon" in that context? :-P
<lifeless> jamesh: can't you see it ?
<jamesh> lifeless: nope.  IIRC it is only displayed on the source edit page
<jamesh> which I don't have access to
<lifeless> jamesh: oh grah.
<lifeless> http://panoramicfeedback.com/opensource/bzrtools-0.12*.tar.gz
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/70526
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70526 in launchpad "noone can see release series tarball data except for product maintainer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/70527
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70527 in launchpad "noone can set release series tarball data except for product maintainer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<lifeless> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/70528
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70528 in launchpad "launchpad admins cannot administer specs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<jamesh> lifeless: okay.  The reason it isn't finding any releases is that http://panoramicfeedback.com/opensource/ doesn't link to the tarballs
<jamesh> when walking HTTP sites, it is expecting to find HTML index pages for the directories so it knows what is there
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70526 in launchpad "noone can see release series tarball data except for product maintainer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70526
<lifeless> jamesh: my main point is the lack of user-debuggability;
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70527 in launchpad "noone can set release series tarball data except for product maintainer" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70527
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70528 in launchpad "launchpad admins cannot administer specs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70528
<jdong> is there any way around the launchpad unique contact e-mail limit?
<jdong> I'm trying to register a backports testing team that uses the backports mailing list, which the main backports team also uses
<jamesh> jdong: nope.  There is a uniqueness constraint on email addresses
<jamesh> jdong: if you think this case should be handled, file a bug
<jamesh> stub: if we need a machine to test the release-management stuff on, why not use demo.lp.net?
<stub> jamesh: Makes sense
<Fujitsu> I'm looking at bug #41457, and it has a corresponding bug in the upstream BTS (on berlios.de). The berliOS BTS hasn't been registered in LP yet, so I can't link the upstream task. Can I request that the BTS be registered in LP, or add a link to the bug there somehow? Or should I just add a comment giving the link?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 41457 in soundconverter "soundconverter silently fails without appropriate plugin" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/41457
<jamesh> Fujitsu: we don't have support for that type of bug tracker
<jamesh> the SF tracker support doesn't look like it'd handle the older software berlios is using
<Fujitsu> I thought it looked like an old SF-like thing, yes...
<Fujitsu> It would be somewhat better if you could specify a URL to link the upstream task to, and it would stick the link there if it didn't already know about the tracker. Otherwise, people looking at the bug have to look for the comment mentioning the bug URL if they want to check the upstream status.
<SteveA> morning
<PecisDarbs> hi crowd, question to Ubuntu packagers - how frequently happens translations updates packages release and how to initialise one, if there is need to fix faulty translations
<spiv> PecisDarbs: #ubuntu-devel is probably the best place to ask.
<PecisDarbs> spiv: already asked, thanks :)
<spiv> PecisDarbs: this channel is for discussion of developing and using the https://launchpad.net/ site, rather than how Ubuntu packaging is done.
<PecisDarbs> yep
<PecisDarbs> I see
<spiv> PecisDarbs: it's possible carlos or jordi on this channel know the answer, when they're around.
<spiv> Otherwise, I think pitti may be the person to ask.
<jordi> hello
<jordi> PecisDarbs: the oficial policy is that langpacks are updated first monday of the month
<jordi> ie, today
<PecisDarbs> cool
<spiv> SteveA, jamesh, salgado, flacoste: review team meeting time.
<jordi> but, I think the people who need to make it happen are in MountainView for the Ubuntu conference
<jamesh> okay
<jordi> I hope they'll be able to ship it today, but it's a special day I guess
<spiv> lifeless and BjornT have registered apologies, because they're at UDS.
<PecisDarbs> I see
<spiv> == Review team meeting agenda ==
<spiv>  * Roll call
<spiv>  * Queue status.
<spiv>  * Whitespace cleanup (is this old?)
<PecisDarbs> guys, one more question - I and my translation team have some issues with Rosetta about merging of translations, is there any efforts underway to fix that?
<spiv> SteveA: ping?
<spiv> salgado doesn't seem to be here.
<jamesh> the whitespace cleanup item is old.
<spiv> flacoste isn't either... I'm not sure that anyone's told him about the meeting though!
<spiv> jamesh: Looks like just you and me then, and a short agenda...
<spiv> * Queue status
<jamesh> queue is huge
<spiv> I haven't done the arithmetic, but "massive" would seem to describe it.
<jamesh> although a number of the branches are incremental (david/cscvs/pyrex-part-*, bjorn/launchpad/malone-release-management-*, etc)
<spiv> jamesh: at glance, you're doing better than most reviewers :)
<spiv> Yeah, that's true.
<spiv> Lots of small branches is actually a good thing compared to the alternative.
<jamesh> by the way, what do you think of the formatting changes on the pending-reviews page?
<spiv> Regarding how the conflict status is shown?
<jamesh> yeah, and putting the conflicts list at the top of the diff
<spiv> (are there other changes I haven't noticed?)
<jamesh> and sorting by state age, rather than absolute age
<spiv> They're all good, I think.
<spiv> Bjorn resolved the conflict in his branch before I started reviewing it, so I didn't notice that conflicts are reported at the top of diffs :)
<jamesh> I wonder if people will be more likely to fix the conflicts early now that they're highlighted?
<spiv> Yeah, it'll be interesting to see.
<jamesh> okay.  Anything else?
<spiv> As far as queue status goes, one of the old ones is in my queue (Bjorn's malone-guided-filebug), and I'm doing that atm, so it should be done soon.
<spiv> jamesh: you have a could from ddaa that a little bit older than they ought to be, but they're short so probably you won't take long to catch up.
<spiv> And no-one else is here to account for their sins...
<spiv> So I guess that's it.
<spiv> Any last minute business?
<jamesh> yeah.  I'm doing the svn-revision-cleanup one at the moment
<spiv> Excellent.
<spiv> Oh, one other thing:
<spiv> Presumably there's no meeting next week, because of allhands :)
<spiv> Ok, I think that's it.
<spiv> 2, 1, 0, DONE.
<jamesh> that's a lot quicker than using multiple lines :)
<spiv> jamesh: thanks for stopping me from having to talk to myself :)
<jamesh> oh.  One thing we should probably be checking for is help text for new templates
<spiv> Ah, good point.
<jamesh> given we want help text for all templates, we don't want to make the problem worse when adding templates
* ddaa randomly throws candy at the reviewers
<spiv> Would you mind mailing the review list about that?
<jamesh> sure.
<spiv> (+1 from me, fwiw)
<SteveA> spiv: hi
<SteveA> spiv: so, I think we need to reconsider the time of the meetings, seeing as (when people aren't at a conference) we have more folks in western timezones
<SteveA> thanks for sending the note about help text in new page templates, jamesh.  I sent it on to the launchpad list.
<malcc> How do I unsubscribe somebody from a spec?
<cprov> malcc: ouch, I don't think it's possible, like bugs ...
<cprov> malcc: let me try, anyway
<malcc> cprov: I got a request this morning from Daniel, who we're spamming now we're working on some old specs
<cprov> malcc: uhm ,I see, looks like we need a DBA request
<cprov> malcc: well, in the spec-land I think we can re-assign stuff
<cprov> malcc: it would help, I'm not sure about subscriptions
<malcc> cprov: Thanks. If a DBA request is needed, I can make it in person later on :)
<cprov> malcc: yup, very convinient for you ;)
<cprov> convenient, too
<cprov> malcc: I've added a comment in DirtyPockets spec, if you have time, tell me what you think ?
<cprov> malcc: it's about the domain name conflict, pocket is used to describe (dr.name, pocket) tuple, which is better described by "suite"
<cprov> malcc: just out of curiosity, is kiko already with you or is he still in BR (I know, I should know it)  
<malcc> cprov: I didn't see kiko yet, is he coming?
<cprov> malcc: dunno
<malcc> Ok, time for a swim before breakfast. See you later launchpadders!
<cprov> malcc: see you
<ddaa> what are the guidelines for what to put in the help text of a page in launchpad?
<sabdfl> SteveA: greetings
<sabdfl> am unable to see brilliant.lp.n?
<SteveA> sabdfl: hi
<SteveA> me neither.  I'll take a look.
<newz2000> I got an oops in staging
<Znarl> newz2000 : Yep, I am looking into that.
<newz2000> ok, thanks. Just getting ready to update the mirrors list.
<SteveA> sabdfl: the brilliant company website isn't working either
<SteveA> sabdfl: so, I expect a problem between their office and the internet
<kiko> morning morning
<kiko> hey SteveA?
<kiko> hello hello
<SteveA> kiko: hi
<ddaa> where is the launchpad-dependencies package for edgy?
<lifeless> morning
<lifeless> matsubara: ping
<matsubara> hi lifeless 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70613 in launchpad "While creating a new project, you should set up bug tracker" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70613
<lifeless> jamesh: on todays schedule, check out 'new developers' and 'code review' - total collision :(.
<lifeless> matsubara: did you get my email about OOPS mails ?
<matsubara> lifeless: yes, I'll sort that out today. 
<lifeless> matsubara: thanks!
<kiko> hey there
<kiko> salgado, stub: ping?
<salgado> kiko, pong
<kiko> salgado, hey there, how's it going?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70615 in malone "bug report doesn't show the milestone" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70615
<kiko> salgado, when is a good time for us to have a morning meeting with people at UDS?
<malcc> If you need all of us at once, 8:30am - 9:00am local would be about the only time
<malcc> The rest of the day, some or all of us will be in BOFs
<kiko> malcc, I was looking for some 15-20 minutes just to catch up and see how the last day went about
<kiko> malcc, but I don't want to have you to start even earlier
<malcc> Today's schedule is here if you want to hunt for another time everyone you need is around: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/uds-mtv/2006-11-06/
<kiko> malcc, is the 9-10am block taken up in full?
<malcc> kiko: Yes, it's usually pretty packed, micro-presentations one after another about what's going on
<lifeless> and they are about whats on, not a good time to lose focus
* kiko shrugs
<lifeless> :)
<kiko> malcc, can you see if you can block a morning slot for a meeting?
<carlos> morning
<kiko> hey carlos 
<malcc> kiko: I don't see a slot today, morning or otherwise, where all the launchpadders at MTV are free
<kiko> boring
<malcc> The scheduler works pretty hard to ensure everyone is busy, so blame jamesh and his leet skillz
<kiko> yeah yeah.
<kiko> maybe I can delegate the meeting to somebody there.
<carlos> kiko: at 4AM?
<kiko> ah ah ah
<SteveA_> does it need to be an "all lauchpad hands at once" meeting?
<SteveA_> I'm sure there's a time when the rosetta folks + stuart are free
<SteveA_> and another time when maybe malc + salgado + bjorn are free
<kiko> SteveA_, I'd rather not have to be blocked on two sets of people, but perhaps somebody at UDS can hold the meeting and relay to us.
<LarstiQ> kiko: this is being blocked qua knowing what is going on, not on a lack for something to do, right?
<kiko> LarstiQ, uhhh right
<LarstiQ> darn :)
<LarstiQ> otherwise I'd see an opening to ask how that svn/rosetta copyright assignment thing ended
<kiko> malcc, if you see stub can you ask him to pingme?
<carlos> spiv: hi, around?
<carlos> kiko: his battery is dead right now
<carlos> well, his *laptop* battery is dead
<kiko> carlos, mmmm. can he call me?
<carlos> I think he was looking for a power plug
<carlos> yeah, he found one, I guess he will be online soon
<kiko> thanks
<carlos> np
<kiko> BjornT, hey!
<kiko> BjornT, any clue why bug 69942 has no comments?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 69942 in launchpad "spam" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/69942
<kiko> ah.
<kiko> :)
<kiko> somebody big-hammered it.
<BjornT> yeah, seems like it.
<SteveA> we should have a big-hammer process that involves checking that the object's page still works
<SteveA> after the hammer has been hammered
<kiko> I'll ask stuart to insert a bogus bugmessage there
<kiko> via email
<kiko> BjornT, do you know if it was stub or lifeless that did the delete there?
<BjornT> kiko: no, i don't know who did the delete
<kiko> BjornT, okay, emailed anyway.
<stub> kiko: pong
<kiko> stub!
<kiko> good to hear from you
<kiko> thanks for the POFileTranslator fixes, I merged the branch yesterday
<kiko> stub, also thanks for fixing up those indices and vacuum
<kiko> I have some branches to land to use those now
<kiko> stub, ping?
<stub> kiko: pong
<stub> That db patch just went out to staging if you want to see if it works
<kiko> cool
<lifeless> matsubara: I was marking bugs with code in the as security for content-privacy. is there a better way to ddo it ?
<matsubara> lifeless: if you report using the email interface you can use the command "private" and it'll report is as a private bug but not security related. Using the web ui you don't have that option.
<lifeless> matsubara: I'm using the web ui for those
<lifeless> I can swtich for them to the email interface
<lifeless> I'm also jus texplaining why I marked them as I did
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70628 in malone "Allow searching for a bug contact's bugs" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70628
<mdke_> does anyone have a procmail expression for filtering LP bugmail? Mine doesn't seem to work
<LarstiQ> mdke_: yes
<mdke_> LarstiQ: cool. mine is "* ^Reply-To:*bugs.launchpad.net
<mdke_> any idea what's wrong with it?
<LarstiQ> mdke_: * ^X-Launchpad-Bug: product=\/[^;] +
<LarstiQ> is what I have (thanks to uws)
<mdke_> LarstiQ: does that work for distro bugs too?
<LarstiQ> mdke_: it works for bzr bugs, I haven't dealt with distros I'm afraid
<LarstiQ> mdke_: I'd be interested to hear about that though
<kiko> mdke_, just change product to distro=
<mdke_> I'd be happy with something which filters everything with X-Launchpad-Bug
<matsubara> lifeless: I don't mind marking them as not security related. I seldom need to do that.
<mdke_> kiko: alright, I'll try doing two... is there something which will filter everything with that header?
<lifeless> matsubara: ok, cool. they stay private though ?
<LarstiQ> mdke_: the rest of the procmail rule then puts it into .bugs.$MATCH.$YEAR.$MONTH/ and .bugs/
<kiko> mdke_, I don't know what you mean.
<LarstiQ> kiko: is there one header to rule them all?
<mdke_> kiko: I mean, any email with the X-Launchpad-Bug header would go into the same folder
<kiko> * ^X-Launchpad-Bug.* 
<kiko> that catches all of them
<mdke_> I'll use that, thanks
<mdke_> for the record, any idea what was wrong with mine?
<LarstiQ> there is also the X-Generated-By: Launchpad
<kiko> mdke_, yes.
<kiko> mdke_, it should have been .* not *. it's a regexp.
<LarstiQ> mdke_: missing dot?
<matsubara> lifeless: yes, I umark the security flag but I leave the private flag set.
<mdke_> kiko: doh. Thanks
<matsubara> can someone send me the log from the last LP meeting?
<SteveA> matsubara: they are in the channel logs
<SteveA> URL as a tinyurl in the title of this channel
<matsubara> SteveA: I tried that already. Apparently the bot wasn't logged in at the time.
<newz2000> the other day I checked a person in launchpad to make sure they had a gpg key and an e-mail address registered (they did). Today I look and their e-mail address and gpg key don't show...
<newz2000> I see that he had two identities that were merged, is it possible to find out what the other identity is so I can find his contact info?
<salgado> newz2000, that's sort of weird
<newz2000> yeah, thats kind of what I thought
<newz2000> https://launchpad.net/people/jamesbunnell
<kiko> IIRC I merged him
<salgado> you shouldn't be able to see the one that was merged from, and the remaining one should have everything that was in the merged one
<kiko> newz2000, that guy has 4 deactivated gpg keys.
<kiko> newz2000, and his email is kept private.
<salgado> newz2000, looks like he opted not to show his email address
<newz2000> ok, at least I'm not going insane then
<newz2000> I was starting to think I was seeing things.
<jordi> wow, this is new
<jordi> "Integrity error"
<salgado> jordi, is that when creating new accounts?
<SteveA> matsubara: I have logs
<matsubara> SteveA: can you mail them to me?
<SteveA> matsubara: http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevea/lpmeeting-2006-11-02.log
<matsubara> SteveA: thanks!
<kiko> carlos, jordi: https://staging.launchpad.net/people/carlos/+translations
<jordi> salgado: creating a potemplatename
<jordi> hey carlos
<kiko> https://staging.launchpad.net/people/jordi/+translations
<jordi> kiko: these people aren't going to reply to the email even
<jordi> :/
<kiko> jordi, such is life.
<jordi> hmm, pretty cool
<joejaxx> kiko: hello
<kiko> hey joejaxx 
<carlos> kiko: cool
<carlos> kiko: may I suggest to link to the pomsgset directly instead of the pofile? O:-)
<carlos> kiko: btw, GNU Translators is twice in my list of translation teams
<carlos> same as Ubuntu Translators
<kiko> jamesh, you know about the formatter based on bug 929? wanna do it for a dvd of choice? :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 929 in launchpad "Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/929
<joejaxx> kiko: i was wondering should i wait to create a team/product
<kiko> joejaxx, I'll probably do that for you today, getting over the hump of immediate tasks
<joejaxx> kiko: oh ok
<joejaxx> kiko: are you at uds?
<kiko> joejaxx, no, not this time.
<joejaxx> oh ok
<kiko> lifeless, are you at UDS?
<SteveA> BjornT: pin
<SteveA> BjornT: ping
<kiko> ...bong...
<carlos> kiko: yes, he is
<kiko> cool.
<mhb> carlos: hi... are you here?
<mhb> carlos: just to let you know: I'm trying to download a .po file from Rosetta to my email and it doesn't work for a few days now ... it's blocking my work, so I wondered if you could do something with it
<carlos> mhb: hi
<carlos> mhb: we fixed that yesterday
<carlos> didn't you get the confirmation email?
<mhb> carlos: for the downloads I did few days ago: no
<carlos> mhb: could you try it again
<mhb> carlos: I tried to do one 10 minutes ago or so and it hasn't arrived yet
<mdke_> carlos: any ideas about https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/edgy/+source/ubuntu-docs/+translations
<lifeless> kiko: yes
<kiko> thanks
<kiko> just wanted to know.
<mhb> carlos: good, it seems it arrived
<mhb> carlos: thanks
<lifeless> kiko: is there anything you need me to dod for you ?
<mdke_> carlos: ah, seen your comment on the bug report. No worries
<kiko> lifeless, no, but you'll get some UDS email shortly
<lifeless> kiko: okies
<kiko> lifeless, it's good news, no worries.
<mhb> carlos: you should know that ... do suggestions get in the downloaded .po file (as fuzzy, perhaps) ?
<jordi> carlos: there's a request to upload a file to rosetta
<jordi> carlos: how do we do this nowdays?
<SteveA> lifeless: ping
<SteveA> BjornT: ping
<jordi> good night folks
#launchpad 2006-11-07
<kiko> where's stub?
<salgado> kiko, want me to ping him?
<kiko> salgado, in the next break, if you can.
<jordi> kiko: are you available for a tiny admin task?
<SteveA> salgado: is BjornT around?
<BjornT> hi SteveA 
<kiko> jordi, always.
<SteveA> hi BjornT 
<SteveA> I have a question about a test I'm debugging on the ui branch
<SteveA> the test hasn't changed, but the page it is testing has
<SteveA> do you have a couple of minutes to explain one part of the test to me?
<BjornT> sure
<SteveA> thanks
<jordi> kiko: in short, translation team owner is MIA, the only active translator's membership expired a few months ago, bringing Bulgarian translations to a complete halt
<SteveA> the test is pagetests/bug-also-affects/xx-bug-requestdistrofix.txt
<kiko> jordi, I can fix it. /msg me what and who
<SteveA> there is a part:
<SteveA> The ubuntu task is in the task list.
<SteveA> >>> print browser.contents <... ...>Ubuntu</a>... ...
<jordi> I sent an email to the current owner asking to reenable his membership, and warning that no actuion would get the other dude promoted to admin
<SteveA> over several lines
<jordi> I assume you're ok with this hpapening after a week with no action
<jordi> kiko: will do
<SteveA> as far as I can see, this should have started failing when there was a UI change to duplicate bugs so that the table of targets was no longer shown
<SteveA> but it co-incidentally continues to work on the devel branch because <... ...>Ubuntu</a>... ... appears in the breadcrumbs
<SteveA> even though it doesn't appear in the task list
<SteveA> so, my question is, can I just delete that part of the test, or is there something better I can replace it with?
<lifeless> SteveA: pong
<BjornT> SteveA: right, it's an old test, and it doesn't test things well.
<BjornT> SteveA: i think it's ok to simply delete it, it's not important to know whether the task is visible or not
<SteveA> ok thanks, I'll do that
<kiko> salgado, are ou participating in dynamic mirror updates?
<salgado> kiko, I was. the session finished half an hour ago
<kiko> salgado, cool. I saw a discussion about screen-scraping which shouldn't be necessary right?
<salgado> right
<kiko> ok
<kiko> hey stub 
<WebMaven> SteveA: still awake?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70665 in malone "Allow searching in comments" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70665
<ehazlett> greetings all...  i was wondering if there is a way to remove a product series in launchpad?
<lifeless> jamesh: can you please assign reviews for me this week ? 
<carlos> spiv: ping
<carlos> ehazlett: I think you cannot
<carlos> ehazlett: but you can rename it
<SteveA> lifeless: ping
<lifeless> pong
<SteveA> I'm having a bit of bzr / pqm trouble
<SteveA> I'm trying to merge the latest ui work into rf/lp/ui-one-zero
<SteveA> and it fails, in pqm, with 13 conflicts
<SteveA> I just resolved the conflicts locally, merged and pushed
<spiv> carlos: pong
<carlos> spiv: hi, would be possible to get an urgent review for carlos/launchpad/bug-68014-step2 ?
<carlos> it's a three steps fix for a bug that is producing data lose in Rosetta
<kiko> SteveA, and then?
<SteveA> well
<SteveA> I just merged from ui-one-zero again
<SteveA> and I got the conflicts again
<carlos> as you can see in the name, that's step #2
<carlos> spiv: https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/carlos/launchpad/bug-68014-step2/full-diff
<SteveA> the same ones
<spiv> carlos: ok, I'll get straight on that.
<SteveA> the same ones I spent a while resolving just before
<carlos> spiv: thank you
<spiv> carlos: (although perhaps I'll need lunch first... I'll see how much stomach goes)
<lifeless> SteveA: this is midday for pooloe, and I'm in bofs. Can you please chat with him about diagnosing this. If you need me to look at what PQM thinks is going on I can do that, but at this point it sounds like pure bzr.
<SteveA> ok
<carlos> spiv: don't worry, if you can get it done before you leave today, that's enough
<spiv> carlos: ok
<carlos> we will leave soon to the hotel so I don't think I will be able to handle the review until tomorrow morning
<ehazlett> carlos: thanks 
<carlos> np
<kiko> SteveA, sure this isn't a pilot error?
<carlos> stu1: would you approve and give me a patch number for the DB patch at https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/carlos/launchpad/bug-68014-step2/full-diff ? 
<stu1> carlos: You appear to be adding rows to poselection and we just discussed dropping that table
<carlos> yeah, that patch is not new from today
<carlos> stub: anyway, we would need to collapse it inside posubmission
<carlos> as the active and published fields
<SteveA> kiko: if it is, I want a parachute
<carlos> stub: btw, where are you ? I need to talk with you about the DB optimisation
<stub> carlos: same room. I'll come out - people having a meeting in here
<carlos> ok
<salgado> kiko, BjornT, have you guys seen bug 68290 (https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/68290)
<Ubugtu> Bug 68290 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/68290 is private
<kiko> I don't look at people's private parts
<salgado> not even when they ask you to?
<kiko> ok
<kiko> so I think the first part is an actual bug
<kiko> but I thought it was fixed
<kiko> maybe not rolled out yet
<kiko> the second is a real bug
<kiko> you are the assignee
<kiko> how the HELL can you not be in the portlet?
<kiko> BjooooooornT
<salgado> he's right beside me and seems to be looking at the bug now
<salgado> :)
* kiko whines about bugs and the so-called Malone Force Field
<BjornT> kiko, salgado: i'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that assignees don't actually get notified on private bugs
<kiko> yeah, good point
<kiko> it may actually be intentional
<kiko> BjornT, if it is intentional, I think it's worth putting text in the subscription box saying that "This bug is in private mode, and that's why the bug assignee and contacts are not also notified"
<kiko> in <small>
<salgado> I don't get notified but I can see the bug
<BjornT> salgado: you can see the bug because you are in Launchpad Developers
<salgado> I don't quite like that, I think... what's the point of having an assignee of a private bug?
<stub> carlos: Need to add comments to comments.sql
<BjornT> salgado: to indicate that someone will fix the bug?
<BjornT> salgado: there's a bug open on that it should be possible to subscribe the assignee at the same time you assign him.
<carlos> stub: oh, right, I forgot it....
<BjornT> usually you want the assignee to get notified about the bug.
<kiko> BjornT, at any rate, the bug is/was that the implicit subscribers should become real subscribers when the bug is made private.
<kiko> BjornT, salgado: I believe that bug is now fixed. can somebody confirm?
<kiko> salgado, ah I see, if you are marked as assignee after the bug is reported, right?
<kiko> after the bug is marked private, I meant
<kiko> doh
<salgado> my concern is that if we don't notify the assignee he may never get to know about the bug
<salgado> and whoever assigned that bug may not know about that
<salgado> this is the case here, since matsubara thought I'd get notified about that bug, but I didn't
<lifeless> surely the assignee should always be notified
<stub> carlos: patch-67-30-0.sql
<kiko> yeah
<lifeless> and  if the reason for privacy should not let the assignee see the bug, *change the assignee*
<BjornT> kiko: implicit subscribers become explicit when a bug is marked private
<carlos> stub: ok, thanks
<kiko> BjornT, right, so that's fixed.
<lifeless> if you assign someone, d they become a subscriber ?
<BjornT> kiko: yeah. and there's a bug open on that the  assignee should become subscribed to the bug
<lifeless> put another way, is it possible for someone to be the assignee on a bug that is private,and not be able to see it, or not be notified ?
<kiko> yes
<BjornT> bug 757
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 757 in malone "Assignee should be CC'd when assigneed to a private bug" [Medium,Needs info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/757
<lifeless> but why cc? surely that is conflating 'notify me on changes' with 'let me see this bug I am assigned to work on'
<BjornT> lifeless: why special case private bugs? on public bugs the assignee will get notified, he can't choose not to get notified
<lifeless> BjornT: I see, no problem.
* Mez -> bed
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70709 in malone "Can't search for bugs without a milestone set" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70709
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70712 in malone "Adding a "change comment" without change should equal adding a comment" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70712
<PecisDarbs> hi there, anyone knows what is happening to this translations issue - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/rosetta-users/2006-October/001897.html
<PecisDarbs> anyone?
<spiv> PecisDarbs: carlos has written a fix, I'm doing a code review of it atm.
<spiv> PecisDarbs: when it's reviewed, I expect it will be cherry-picked onto production ASAP
<PecisDarbs> ohh
<spiv> Given that it's a Critical bug
<PecisDarbs> great
<PecisDarbs> thanks :)
<spiv> And that carlos has been pestering me to review it urgently :)
<spiv> You're welcome.
<kiko> hello hello hackers
<lifeless> hey kiko
<kiko> how's it going 
<lifeless> good good
<lifeless> yourself ?
<kiko> great
<kiko> just back in
<SteveA> stub: you up for an irc chat sometime?
<kiko> stub!
<stub> Yo
<kiko> how's it going
<kiko> stub, have time for a short voice call?
<stub> Now is fine. Nothing happening at the moment.
<kiko> stub, what number can I reach you at?
<stub> I don't know if I can do voice here - SIP or Skype might work
<kiko> hmmm
<stub> No mobile as wee haven't had an opportunity to pick up sim cards
<kiko> skype might work for me
<SteveA> you need to pay to receive calls in the US anyway I think
<kiko> you do not
<kiko> stub, what's your skype id?
<SteveA> stub: I'm going to take a break, but please ping me when you've finished talking with kiko
<SteveA> I have news about beta, edge and domain names, among other things
<stub> SteveA: ok
<stub> kiko: stuartbishop
<kiko> dialing in
<malcc> Looking at a random US cell provider, it looks like receiving calls for free is still an extra not all deals have
<kiko> oh, on cell phones
<malcc> Hmm, and even the one here with "unlimited call-me minutes" only lets you receive calls for free if you're sufficiently near your "home area"
<kiko> I hadn't picked that part up
<kiko> in that case apologies SteveA 
<kiko> I thought you meant for fixed lines
<stub> kiko: What is your skype id?
<kiko> stub, kiko-async
<kiko> stub, can't seem to connect
<kiko> stub, "Reason unknown"
<kiko> if you can fathom
<kiko> stub, let's do IRC then
<stub> kiko: I get that when I try to connect to you too
<stub> ok. The others can join in too hen
<stub> erm... then.... I'm not actually calling you poultry
<kiko> you just hurt my feelings
<stub> eggscruciating
<kiko> stub, so I wanted to check on two things
<kiko> a) that people checked out the list of topics, if they have any questions or comments on them, and whether they want to suggest things for the allhands instead
<kiko> b) how the work yesterday went, if the write-ups went well, if people are blocked on input, and what the main good/bad ideas that came up were
<stub> a) check out which list of topics in particular? UDS topics do you mean?
<salgado> I guess it's the topics kiko sent by email
<stub> b) Fine. Not much for us to do here. Malcolm has a couple of specs to draft which he is doing. I got a rosetta one up to pending-approval.
<kiko> stub, a) salgado's right.
<salgado> in my case, the https discussion seem to have been postponed to allhands
<kiko> stub, b) whoa, the list I sent had plenty of items that needed plenty of discussion... hopefully there should be enough to do. did you read the message?
<stub> bugworkflow is being specced
<salgado> I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumKarma, listing some other reasons why I think it doesn't look like a good idea
<kiko> salgado, yeah, SteveA has suggestions for that
<stub> cve tracking has not been discussed, and I don't think it is on the agenda
<kiko> salgado, aha. 
<stub> bug reporting tool has not been scheduled yet (I hope, or I missed a session)
<kiko> stub, bugworkflow was an old spec.. what needed to be done was a catch-up on it
<kiko> lol
<stub> (bjorn says bug reporting tool is scheduled today)
<stub> kiko: sflaw is drafting the spec last I heard
<kiko> stub, so some of the statuses suggested were good ideas (I think the wontfix/invalid) split
<kiko> and some of them were weird 
<salgado> I had some discussions with mako about some membership issues and filed bug 70519
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70519 in launchpad "Need to allow team members to renew their own membership once it gets close to the membership's expiration date" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70519
<kiko> or perhaps too-distro-centric
<BjornT> kiko, stub: i'll try do discuss cve tracking today
<kiko> BjornT, or at least try scheduling a chat with pitti
<salgado> I'm waiting on input from mako but I think on the bug report there's enough information to implement the fix
<kiko> if you don't manage to start discussion 2day
<kiko> salgado, so the idea is that a person can re-apply?
<salgado> no, that's another bug
<salgado> the person can renew his own membership
<kiko> salgado, if it's an open membership team?
<salgado> kiko, no, even if it's restricted
<BjornT> kiko: yeah. i'll also going to discuss BugWorkflow with mark tomorrow
<kiko> BjornT, ah, cool. be careful. :)
<stub> carlos had translation team scheduled yesterday
<kiko> how did that go? mdke_ wrote today saying that he thinks that for at least some teams just more care is necessary.
<kiko> I think that having privileges inside the teams or two teams is probably the way to go
<carlos> stub: that spec is superseded
<carlos> it was handled by othre 
<carlos> by other Ubuntu specs
<kiko> carlos, how did it go
<carlos> and Mat said that we will see what's needed in Launchpad once they collect the information
<carlos> so we didn't get any conclusion for Launchpad modifications
<kiko> carlos, what information? and which Matt?
<carlos> kiko: that's unrelated with current thread about QA issues
<carlos> https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/language-teams
<carlos> I'm talking about that spec
<carlos> kiko: mdz
<malcc> Soyuz specs are going well; two are mostly drafted, need to resolve a couple final issues, which I'll do when I've got the guys this afternoon for the other two
<malcc> The other two specs we've got so far are up for discussion this afternoon, and we'll also discuss then what else we want to discuss
<kiko> malcc, ah, what issues? which ones are drafted?
<malcc> kiko: The ones we discussed yesterday, soyuz-buildd-improvements and soyuz-privilege-separation
<malcc> kiko: No big issues, just some things where I didn't get every detail needed down in my notes, so I need a reminder of some things to complete the specs
<kiko> right
<kiko> any really novel ideas in those, or just underlining of things we knew were important?
<malcc> In other news, footlong subs with pastrami and extra chillis are just as nice as I remembered, and there's DDR within walking distance of the hotel
<kiko> malcc, heh
<stub> DDR?
<malcc> A couple useful ideas; some really simple things like changing some sorting on some UI pages which it sounds like will make a fair bit of difference to the usability
<kiko> DANCE DANCE REVOLUTION
* stub shudders
<kiko> malcc, ah, awesome -- for the smaller things be sure to file bugs and we can get them in piecemeal
<malcc> kiko: Yup, will do
<kiko> awesome
<kiko> malcc, BjornT, salgado, carlos: anything from the list of topics I sent that was a surprise?
<kiko> or anything you'd like to ask about or discuss with me
<stub> LanguagePackUI handling was also scheduled yesterday. carlos?
<carlos> kiko: just that DB schema changes fro Rosetta are quite trivial and that we are not going to change anything there to reduce the amount of rows to copy with a new distrorelease opening (it would require another table with more or less the same amount of information.... so no wins)
<kiko> I see
<carlos> It was quite fast
<carlos> Martin and we had more or less the same idea about whether it should be implemented
<kiko> do you think it'll improve things significantly?
<stub> re: karma for forums, it wouldn't be difficult to provide an API. The main work required would actually be at the forums end, and the mailing list end as it would be rather rude to award karma to the forums and not the mailing lists.
<carlos> I'm drafting it
<carlos> kiko: what? language pack UI ? or db schema?
<BjornT> kiko: no, not really. although i don't think i'll discuss email interface improvments, since we already discussed that in paris.
<kiko> BjornT, and there are things to do there that are still pending?
<carlos> oh, mixed conversations... how confusing....
<kiko> carlos, db schema.
<cprov> malcc: hi, have you already got some feedback about Xen-based buildd + ppa-buildd ?
<carlos> kiko: yeah, we are removing a table with 40Million of rows
<malcc> cprov: Just re-iteration that ppa's will only be built on Xen, and that this needs to be done at some point.
<carlos> so we will save to join with such a huge beast
<kiko> carlos, that's awesome
<kiko> malcc, is that a soyuz team task?
<stub> re: karma scaling, I think logarithmic scaling would be good. We can play with scaliing algorithms as much as we want, as we are only messing with cached values and any changes will be easily cherry pickable because they would be isolated to the karma-cache building script.
<BjornT> kiko: yeah
<malcc> kiko: I think what it is is another good thing to discuss this week, to ensure we know who has to do what. My impression is that it's mostly not us, but this could do with being confirmed
<kiko> stub, that's my idea
<kiko> malcc, please put that on your todo list and let's sort it out -- it's an infinity/james question
<cprov> malcc: well, and the specific ppa parameters ?  did you confirm that "ppa=http://l.n/people/cprov" or so will be enough for building ppas ?
<kiko> stub, great, let's see if you and I sit down at allhands and code up a rogue patch
<kiko> just to see how it does
<malcc> cprov: I'll raise that too
<stub> I think we have covered everything
<kiko> stub, cool.
<kiko> guys, thanks a lot for the time
<kiko> be sure to update your spec statuses and have your write-ups in good shape for review time
<cprov> malcc: very good ! flacoste also suggested *vserver* kernel-level-isolation technology instead of Xen, can you mention that in BOF and see what infinity & elmo thinks about it.
<kiko> I can give input as necessary, just ping or email me
<salgado> kiko, stub, I just updated https://launchpad.canonical.com/KarmaCalculation
<malcc> cprov: Any idea what vserver might solve? Is it faster, or available for more platforms?
<cprov> malcc: basically, faster
<flacoste> malcc: it is faster and requires less resource
<malcc> cprov: flacoste: The fact that Xen is only some supported platforms is a pain, as it blocks us using PPA directly for lots of distro team requirements, unless we have some kind of trusted PPA flag which uses the regular builders
<malcc> Ok, I'll mention it and see what the guys say
<flacoste> malcc: if by platform you mean architecture, it supports quite a few
<malcc> flacoste: Yes, I meant arch
* flacoste used it on ppc and intel
<kiko> cool
<flacoste> in theory it could be easily ported to any arch, since it doesn't need any special hardware support
* flacoste always configure his servers using vserver to separate all services in different virtual hosts
<flacoste> it's kind of a high powered chroot (or BSD jail), really worth a look
<malcc> Sounds good
<stub> Bleh. I'm still jetlagged :-P
<stub> 10:20 am and I need a nap...
<salgado> kiko, have you seen my updates to the KarmaCalculationSpec? if you think it's okay I'll go ahead and schedule some time to discuss it with stub
<kiko> yeah, I did
<kiko> they look good!
<stub> I couldn't see what changed apart from the inline comment
<salgado> the last comment at the bottom
<salgado> in the "Future discussion" section
<stub> salgado: I think we will need the normalization forever, but we have the choice of using hard coded values and tweaking them occasionally or the automatic algorithm (or similar) that is currently implemented.
<stub> salgado: If the 'wobble' is the issue, there are alternatives such as rounding the scaling factor to the nearest 50 or somesuch, so it doesn't change every day.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70765 in launchpad "Following my person link from a features page doesn't work" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70765
<stub> With normalization, we only have to make sure that the karma values make sense within their category. Without scaling, we have to make sure they make sense globally which is a lot more difficult since you have to take into account changing variables such as how busy that particular bit of launchpad is
<salgado> yeah, that's true
<stub> SteveA: scheduled ping
<SteveA> stub: hallo
<ddaa> lifeless: your opensync import is ready
<lifeless> danke
<kiko_> is danilo at UDS?
<kiko_> that I did not know
<salgado> yes, he's here, kiko 
<salgado> I'm talking with Znarl right now, kiko, and looks like DirectPersonCreation will be useful for mirror owners
<salgado> since the mirror admins are not registering their mirrors in launchpad, we can create "placeholder" profiles for them and make them the owners of their mirrors
<kiko> salgado, hmmm, interesting indeed
<kiko> we can't email them though
<salgado> that just means they won't get notified when their mirrors have problems
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> which is the case already anyway.
<SteveA> stub: ping
<salgado> Znarl, can you see any problem with that approach?
<salgado> kiko, this would also be a good testbed for DirectPersonCreation
<Znarl> salgado : Sounds fine to me.
<SteveA> kiko: do me a review?
<flacoste> kiko, salgado: got a few minutes for a simple "Extract Class" refactoring review?
<flacoste> SteveA: ^^^
<flacoste> it's almost trivial
<SteveA> flacoste: ok
<flacoste> SteveA: thanks! The diff is available at https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/flacoste/launchpad/refactoring-2/full-diff
<SteveA> what's it about?
<flacoste> (been unassigned for three days and I'm about to upload a branch that depends on it)
<flacoste> SteveA: It  extracts identical ITicketTarget implementation in SourcePackage and DistributionSourcePackage into SourcePackageTicketTargetMixin.
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> > +        if person not in self.support_contacts:
<SteveA> > +            return False
<SteveA> is that safe?
<flacoste> support_contacts is a list so it should be
<SteveA> only when we have spiv's sqlobject __eq__ stuff landed
<SteveA> https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/file7rVYcm.html
<SteveA> rest of my review
<SteveA> r=me, if you check out the sqlobject comparison stuff, and consider the other things I mentioned
<flacoste> ok, you mean if person comes from another cache, it might fail
<flacoste> SteveA: that conditional is tested so it kind of works
<flacoste> but I'll do an explicit query there to be on the safe side
<SteveA> it's tested somewhat... sqlobject can be unpredictable in practice when you have many threads, and long-running stuff with caches etc.etc.
<Hogi> hello! can i seach for a specific term in my LP translations?
<matsubara> Hogi: not yet, that's bug 44
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44 in rosetta "Translations should be searchable" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44
<flacoste> SteveA: thanks for the review!
<Hogi> matsubara: ok, thx
<ddaa> BjornT: ping
<ddaa> SteveA: https://launchpad.net/people/vcs-imports/+branch/silva/trunk
<j-a-meinel> Is there a specific 'New User Guide to Using Launchpad' document out there?
<j-a-meinel> Or is that part of a 1.0 rollout?
<ddaa> Some snippets on https://help.launchpad.net/
<ddaa> Generally, we do not have a dedicated documentation guy, so I do not think we'll ever have an extensive separate documentation. It would be too hard to keep up-to-date.
<ddaa> also, users don't read doc... so we'd better spend our resources making useful integrated documentation (that's planned for 1.0) and fixing the confusing stuff.
<SteveA> ddaa: hey, excellent!
<SteveA> I'll tell the silva guys
<ddaa> note that there's no rename support yet
<BjornT> ddaa: pong
<ddaa> BjornT: can you update the status of the cscvs/partial-copy branches in review?
<ddaa> they are all needs-reply, and I'm not clear which are approved, and which are just waiting for you to reply to my reply.
<BjornT> ddaa: sorry, i've been really busy lately. i'll take a look at them now.
<kiko> salgado, "finish your launchpad registration"?
<BjornT> ddaa: i've replied to the email. i used the same status for all branches, so all are basically approved
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70807 in launchpad "Properly redirect people when creating new accounts" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70807
<kiko> oh Ubugtu stop complaining
<kiko> Seveas, all this bot does is whine about bugs in launchpad!
<ddaa> Seveas: it would be nice if it also said something when a bug is closed
<mpt> "Bug 12345678 changed status from In Progress to Committed. Hooray!"
<ddaa> BjornT: okay, I'll do the various renaming and documentation adjustments tomorrow
* ddaa -> bed
<Seveas> kiko, for #launchpad that actually may be a good thing
<kiko> heh
<Seveas> maybe after the conference or in a dead hour (of which there have been none so far)
<kiko> dead hours are my favorites
<kiko> BjornT, ping?
<kiko> BjornT, ping me when you have a sec
#launchpad 2006-11-08
<BjornT> kiko: ping
<kiko> BjornT!
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70828 in blueprint "Need a way to export a list of people that say they are attending a sprint." [High,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70828
<carlos> kiko-afk: you suck!
<carlos> kiko-afk: if you are around, I would like to schedule a brief meeting about 'suggestions from another language' selector GET vs. POST
<lifeless> carlos: non-mutation should be get :)
<carlos> lifeless: but not adding useless vars to the URL....
<carlos> field.alternative_language=cy&field.alternative_language-empty-marker=1&select_alternate_language=Change
<carlos> vs
<carlos> field.alternative_language=cy
<carlos> lifeless: anyway, mpt gave me a good reason to have that as a POST
<carlos> if you are translating something and decide to see suggestions for another language
<carlos> if it's a GET, you lose your unsaved translations
<carlos> if it's a POST, you don't
* carlos -> out
<carlos> more about this tomorrow....
<kiko-afk> I don't care if it's a get or a post
<kiko-afk> but a get is a lot simpler to implement
<kiko-afk> and the post was implemented in an overly complicated way
<LaserLine>  I'm trying to create a key for launchpad using gpg --send-key key-id (key-id = xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx <-my key) but when I do that it says gpg: "xxxx" not a key ID: skipping
<jamesh> LaserLine: don't include spaces
<kiko> LaserLine, the key-id can also be the shorter form
<kiko> hey jamesh 
<kiko> how's it going
<jamesh> good.
<kiko> looking forward to the jet lag?
<jamesh> are you at UDS?
<jamesh> not particularly
<kiko> not yet.
<jamesh> at least I don't have to transfer inside the US ...
<kiko> I'm in minnesota
<kiko> but will be in SFO on sunday
<kiko> looking forward to seeing you there too!
<jamesh> so, there is a possibility that the timezone data in Launchpad will be out of date for Western Australia on December 3rd
<jamesh> we may or may not be switching to daylight saving time then.
<kiko> what do you mean?
<kiko> haven't you decided?
<jamesh> the government hasn't decided yet
<jamesh> but they will decide before December 3rd
<kiko> just like brazil in a way
<jamesh> actually, it looks like they have decided
<jamesh> the last time we had daylight saving was 1992
<kiko> wow
<kiko> I did not know that!
<kiko> jamesh, so pytz, does it use the system timezone information?
<kiko> jamesh, if so, we need tz-brasil!
<kiko> and a port of tz-brasil to tz-au or whatever
<jamesh> kiko: nope.  But it is built from the same data (the Olsen timezone database)
<kiko> that's not good
<kiko> because tz-brasil doesn't know about it
<jamesh> kiko: when a new tzdata version is released, pytz can be updated mechanically
<kiko> and that means it's already wrong for brazil.
<jamesh> tz-brazil?
<kiko> tz-brasil
<kiko> we change the dates every year
<kiko> the scientists decide what day it will be
<jamesh> kiko: looking at pytz, Brazil/East has DST transition dates up to 2037
<kiko> all wrong
<jamesh> really?
<kiko> of course! we don't know the dates for 2007.. let alone 2037.
<jamesh> they are different for almost every year
<kiko> they are different every year. 
<jamesh> how do the scientists decide?
<kiko> they study their books of runes in ivory towers
<jamesh> haha
<kiko> seriously, I have some text in portuguese
<jamesh> kiko: look at lib/pytz/zoneinfo/Brazil/East.py for example
<kiko> so it's wrong for 2006, of course
<kiko> since the date of change was 2006-11-03
<LaserLine> I downloaded the code of conduct did steps 1-4 to add the signature, then copy/paste the asc file, but it says No Public Key
<kiko> I have no idea how that file was generated
<kiko> but it wasn't by the scientists, I assure you
<kiko> jamesh: http://www.mme.gov.br/site/news/detail.do;jsessionid=D3CD601767867DC7507196DEC89E75F4?newsId=10740
<jamesh> kiko: in previous referendums on daylight saving, the usual complaints were brought up: It'll fade the curtains.  The cows will get confused if we start milking them one hour earlier, etc.
<kiko> LaserLine, what's yoour key id?
<kiko> jamesh, you know my dad said he saw an interview with an old lady in the 1960s and she said it faded the curtains
<kiko> I find that a fascinating answer
<kiko> because you can't really argue it fades the curtains significantly more
<jamesh> kiko: what do you expect, if the government adds an extra hour of daylight?
<kiko> the cows may get upset but only once
<LaserLine> kiko: C8489D24E11EC63D10FC08492675B89931F93478
<kiko> eric pritchett
<kiko> pleased to meet you
<LaserLine> you too
<kiko> LaserLine, can I see the file you are trying to upload?
<jamesh> LaserLine: so what was the exact message gpg gave you when you tried to decrypt the file?
<kiko> decrypt?
<jamesh> oh.  You
<jamesh> 've already done that part
<kiko> jamesh, about the curtains, you could argue that because days are longer people will put the curtains up for a longer period of time
<jamesh> kiko: I'd prefer not to have daylight saving, actually
<kiko> it's less confusing
<kiko> for everybody
<jamesh> I'm all for illogical arguments if they get DST voted down
<kiko> blame the germans
<jamesh> but this time it is a 3 year trial
<kiko> well there are some environmental benefits
<kiko> but probably negligible if compared to how much we'd save if women didn't use blow dryers.
<kiko> I wonder when the blow dryer was invented in fact
<kiko> 1920s
<kiko> jamesh, there is an interesting tie-in between DST and christmas in countries in the southern hemisphere
<kiko> because industry ramps up production close to christmas
<kiko> and electricity consumption is peak
<jamesh> kiko: so, it looks like there are a number of Brazil updates to tzdata that we're probably missing in LP's pytz
<jamesh> maybe we should switch all time display over to Swatch(tm) Internet Time
<kiko> jamesh, yeah. could pytz not be made to use the system tzdata?
<jamesh> kiko: probably.
<kiko> good answer.
<jamesh> well, the Python source files for each of the time zones are generated from the same data as the binary zoneinfo files libc uses
<jamesh> so it should be possible to get equivalent functionality by parsing the binary zoneinfo files
<kiko> I guess yes
<kiko-zzz> it's not a big deal but would be nice to fix.
<kiko-zzz> nicer still would be a formatter based on the bug 929 work :-)
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 929 in launchpad "Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/929
<kiko-zzz> night
<LaserLine> Why is it that when I cut/paste my signed Code of Conduct page it says No Public Key
<jamesh> LaserLine: are you pasting everything including the "-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----" and "-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----" lines?
<LaserLine> jamesh: yes
<jamesh> if you run "gpg --verify filename" locally, can it verify the file?
<LaserLine> jamesh: it says it's good
<jamesh> LaserLine: could you paste the entire signed message at http://rafb.net/paste/ and give me the URL?
<LaserLine> jamesh: http://rafb.net/paste/results/NujfuC91.html
<jamesh> gpg: Signature made Wed 08 Nov 2006 14:30:04 WST using DSA key ID A5DA148E
<jamesh> you haven't registered that key with Launchpad according to https://launchpad.net/people/eric-eboxstudios
<jamesh> so, either upload that key too, or make the signature with your 31F93478 key
<jamesh> you can use "gpg -u 31F93478 --clearsign codeofconduct.txt", which should select the right key
<jamesh> LaserLine: does that help?
<LaserLine> jamesh: thanks everything worked
<jamesh> LaserLine: if you accidentally generated a second key, you can delete it with "gpg --delete-secret-key"
<jamesh> (don't do that if you are actually using the second key though)
<Jozo-> Bug activity page says that I've touched bug, but I didn't. Is something weird going on? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/25786/+activity
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 25786 in kdebase "Konqueror crashes everytime when started, gives signal 11 (SIGSEGV)" [Medium,Needs info]  
<jamesh> Jozo-: so you didn't set the bug to needs info?
<Jozo-> jamesh: No, I haven't touch that bug at all or At least I can't remember that I've done something like that. See actual bug and those comments. There written by someone else.
<jamesh> Jozo-: the only thing the activity log records you doing is changing the status of the bug to needs info
<jamesh> Jozo-: the "status explanation" records the comment left the last time the task was updated (status, importance, milestone, assignee)
<jamesh> Jozo-: the other activity log entry attributed to you clears the status explanation, which is consistent with updating the task without leaving a comment
<jamesh> note the "old value" and "new value" column headings
<Jozo> jamesh: Ah, I see. My mail archives misses that somehow. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugs/2006-October/304659.html says that I've done this change. 
<Jozo> Bug activity page should give more information and be more clear. 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70855 in launchpad "Ubuntu mirror 'Details page' reports 'one week behind' when mirror is up to date" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70855
<ddaa> BjornT: ping
<SteveA> ddaa: a bit early for BjornT I would think
<SteveA> seeing as he's at the conference
<ddaa> ah
<ddaa> Bah, I'll just cowboy cscvs/partial-copy in, then.
<ddaa> The last review fix is a sweeping renaming, and it would be better as a separate branch, after cscvs/svn-copy-modify
<jamesh> ddaa: it is possible that putting pqm_branch in locations.conf didn't work for you due to section shadowing.
<jamesh> ddaa: the section shadowing problem is fixed in 0.12 though
<ddaa> ohhh
<ddaa> I'll try to remember to give it a try for the next merge :)
* jamesh got round to submitting the fix for it
<jamesh> anyway, hopefully we can get the config policies stuff in for 0.13
<jonh_wendell> is lp site out?
<matsubara> jonh_wendell: yes. the admins are checking what's going on
<jonh_wendell> matsubara: thanks
<SteveA> spiv: ping
<cprov> SteveA: do you have a minute to check a help text I wrote ? https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileT9rYCd.html.
<cprov> I think it's too long. 
<SteveA> it may be a bit too long, but I think that's fine
<SteveA> leave it in, and we can trim it later once we see it in the new ui
<cprov> SteveA: ok, thanks
<BjornT> ddaa: pong
<ddaa> BjornT: nevermind
<ddaa> I just merged partial-copy, and put up a new branch with the renamings
<BjornT> ddaa: ok
<lifeless> moin
<ddaa> lifeless: morning
<lifeless> heya
* lifeless -> food
<newz2000> I'm having a problem with staging.launchpad.net
<kiko> hey!
<kiko> stub the bane of cherrypicks!
<kiko> hey matsubara 
<matsubara> hi kiko
<kiko> how's it going old boy
<matsubara> freezing up there, kiko?
<kiko> what was that support tracker bug you pointed to me today?
<kiko> matsubara, no... lovely today, like 12C
<matsubara> kiko: I didn't point it you to any support tracker bug today. they were malone and blueprint bugs.
<kiko> matsubara, oh, it was a blueprint bug? can you remember the bug#?
<matsubara> kiko: bugs 39420 3797
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 39420 in blueprint "Spec emails should include a footer giving the reason for the mail" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/39420
<matsubara> ubugtu bug 3797
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3797 in malone "Bug mails should explain why the person is getting emailed." [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3797
<SteveA> hi stub.  let me know when you have 10 mins to talk about beta.lp
<cprov> kiko: I almost forgot, could you, please, take a look at https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/cprov/launchpad/trivialities/full-diff ?  it was the patch done by elmo in sync-source some time ago.
<kiko> sure.
<malcc> Goooooooood morning launchpadders!
<cprov> malcc: hi, any plan to sort out the conflicts in archive-rework and its children in a short-term ?
* SteveA wonders if mpt has ever seen the Robin Williams film "Good Morning Vietnam"
<malcc> cprov: Sure
<stub> bzr version-info --format=python
<SteveA> stub: I shall add this to launchpad in general today.
<stub> SteveA: You adding that to the main Makefile, and flagging the generated file as junk?
<SteveA> something like that
<cprov> malcc: then, what ? do you think you'll have time to fix them during the UDS ?
<stub> Cool.
<SteveA> then including it somewhere
<malcc> cprov: Yes, I've been sorting them out regularly but maybe I forgot to sync my repo, it shouldn't take any time to fix
<SteveA> maybe in the page footer to start with
<stub> Just make sure it fails gracefully if bzr dies or is not installed
<SteveA> willdo
<cprov> malcc: good, thank you, let me know when you are done, I will do the "merge dance" in devpad
<stub> SteveA: ping re beta
<SteveA> ta
<malcc> cprov: Conflicts sorted
<cprov> malcc: thanks
<stub> lifeless: I'll add a new prebuilt tree on devpad for beta.launchpad.net
<lifeless> stub: ok
<sivang> hi
<sivang> can I remove a branch from my b.l.n branches home?
<sivang> I am now pusing a new one, but a new dir
<sivang> and I want to remove a previous one I had
<sivang> this is the one I want to remove:
<kiko> not sure you can, no
<sivang> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sivan/hubackup/devel-main/
<sivang> hey kiko dude
<sivang> I see
<sivang> and does ti still take a day as noted in the respective ddaa blog post for it to show on LP?
<sivang> or can I work and continue pushing to it right away ? 
<thiagocmartinsc> I want to rebuild Ubuntu Edgy - Server with my own packages, just like OEM provides.. but without X...
<thiagocmartinsc> I know two solutions for creating a custom install CD, the project reconstructor and package oem-config... what is the best way to do this?
<kiko> thiagocmartinsc, this is probably a question better asked in #ubuntu-devel
<sivang> WOW
<sivang> that was QUICK
<kiko> sivang?
<sivang> kiko: all details of brnach, including scanned revision are now there!
<sivang> cool
<kiko> sivang, ddaa's the man to thank he has put good hours into improving the branch scanner
<kiko> and cscvs
<lifeless> ~
<lifeless> and jamesh :)
<thiagocmartinsc> thanks kiko
<kiko> welcome thiagocmartinsc 
<lifeless> and the branch puller too 
* sivang hugs ddaa , lifeless  , jamesh 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70928 in launchpad "Unable to remove package -> upstream linkage" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70928
<sivang> kiko: when are we going to be able to do bzr branch http://lp.net/products/hubackup and it shall just work? (although this can get ambigious if more then one branch are registered)
<kiko> sivang, it already works.
<kiko> lp.net doesn't work though
<kiko> it has to be launchpad.net
<ddaa> sivang: it already works for a branth page
<ddaa> for a series pages it picks the associated bzr branch
<ddaa> for a produtt page it picks the branch of the development-focus series
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70934 in launchpad "Persistent sort of table columns" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70934
<kiko> dupe
<sivang> ddaa: how do I set a branch to be the development focus?
<sivang> kiko: I wrote lp.net as a shortcut to launchpad.net ;)
<kiko> heh
<thiagocmartinsc> kiko,  my plan is to create a custom install CD, with my packages on it... and  on ubuntu-devel I can't get help...  how to put my own *.deb file into the "MY-ubuntu-6.10-server-i386.iso"
<kiko> thiagocmartinsc, that's the right place to ask, though.
<kiko> thiagocmartinsc, you can try #ubuntu-motu.
<LaserJock> who do I need to poke for @ubuntu.com email redirect updates?
<kiko> LaserJock, #canonical-sysadmin
<jbailey> Heya!  Two questions.
<lifeless> nononono
<jbailey> For attaching bugs to upstream, I no longer see the option to pick an upstream bug tracker.
<lifeless> that can be set in the upstream product in launchpad
<jbailey> Can I generally expect that a random bugzilla URL will work?  I wanted to go register the oss.oracle.com bugzilla in there to make sure it worked.
<jbailey> lifeless: It's a module in the kernel, does it support a one to many relationship?
<lifeless> I dunno about where the old option has gone, but if the product is configured as 'uses other bugtracker', it all hooks together magically.
<lifeless> BjornT: ^ ?
<BjornT> jbailey: if you simply provide a bugzilla URL it should work, if the bugtracker is registered in launchpad
<jbailey> BjornT: Right, it's that registration that I'm trying to do now.
<BjornT> jbailey: if it isn't registered, you will be prompted to register it
<jbailey> I guess I'm in the wrong place?
<jbailey> I thought it was done at the time that I created the link.
<BjornT> no, launchpad isn't that smart yet. you have to register it explicitly for now.
<jbailey> Ah, okay.  I don't see it under https://launchpad.net/malone - Can you point me in the right direction?
<kiko> jbailey, malone/bugtrackers
<kiko> there's a RHS portlet
<jbailey> kiko: Nice, thanks.
<kiko> on /malone
<jbailey> kiko: Oh, hmm.  My CSS sheet I think hides portlets occasionally.  I keep forgetting about it.
<kiko> ...
<jbailey> kiko: I find several of the portlets annoying and real-estate consuming, so I hide them.
<jbailey> But I forget on the odd occasion where I'm doing something other than day-to-day use to unhide them.  My bad.
<jbailey> kiko, BjornT: Thanks.
<kiko> enjoy
<jbailey> The second question is that linux-source-2.6.19 doesn't show up in the package list search for ubuntu.
<jbailey> I'm wondering if something hasn't been turned on for feisty searches in the list?
<kiko> jbailey, those searches aren't very reliable
<ddaa> sivang: development focus of a product is a series
<jbailey> kiko: Ah, okay.  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.19 does work.  Thanks.
<ddaa> so you select the trunk series (it should already be the trunk series, by default)
<kiko> jbailey, I need to fix them
<ddaa> then you select the bzr branch you want in the series/+source page
<jbailey> kiko: =)  I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a simple switch for "display feisty in launchpad" didn't need to be flipped.
<mini> Hi, bug 3140 tells me I cannot remove an upstream tracker. 
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 3140 in malone "Bug watches can't be removed" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/3140
<mini> but can I even edit it?
<mini> I chose the wrong product...
<mini> see bug 63418
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 63418 in bugzilla "CPU soft lockup during bootup" [Unknown,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/63418
<kiko> you can edit it sure
<mini> I can't see that 
<mini> I want to edit the "Product" of the bug watch, but it's not editable
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70950 in rosetta "Error when a line starts with _: and have format specification" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70950
<mini> I'm really trying to change the bug watch product. Maybe this is really a bug in malone?
<kiko> mini, mark it as "none" first.
<kiko> then change it
<kiko> it is a bug, yes
<kiko> if you could file it..
<kiko> the product should not be read-only
<mini> kiko: changing it to  "none" does not help
<carlos> kiko: do you have 5 minutes for me? (perhaps it will be 15...)
<kiko> sure
<carlos> kiko: about your change to use GET with alternative language selection
<carlos> kiko: let me comment that the URL it produces suck a lot
<carlos> the arguments are longer than the location URL... and it's already huge....
<kiko> mini, hmm, that's indeed a real bug.
<carlos> but anyway
<kiko> mini, can you reject that task and open a new one?
<carlos> kiko: I talked with mpt about it and he gave me an argument about why it should be a POST instead of a GET
<kiko> carlos, I know. file a bug and we'll get to it eventually
<carlos> and I think lifeless agrees on it
<kiko> the existing code was a disaster
<kiko> we should do it properly
<kiko> forwarding the form elements there is something that needs to be done anyway
<kiko> because there are multiple forms there
<kiko> but doing it right is non-trivial
<kiko> and not a priority
<carlos> kiko: it should be a POST, because otherwise we would make the users lose translations if they choose the alternative language while they are preparing a translation.
<kiko> to preserve translations we'd need to have the whole page be one single form
<carlos> right
<kiko> carlos, yes, there's an XXX I left in the code for that.
<kiko> as I said, file a bug, we don't /need/ to fix this now, as it's really not a priority
<carlos> ok, so we agree we should move back to a POST there (and preserve translations, we weren't doing it before your change, I know)
<carlos> ok
<kiko> carlos, we can move it back to post, yes, it would be nice to preserve changes there
<carlos> it's just that I saw the scary URL yesterday, while playing with my local version and I got completely scared...
<kiko> but not a high pri bug by any means
<carlos> kiko: sure
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> the URLs suck there
<kiko> they actually suck more now that I did that change
<kiko> because they are field.foo and field.bar
<kiko> but...
<kiko> carlos, there's something to consider btw
<carlos> kiko: is there a way to rename it?
<kiko> and that's that clicking on the zoom-in zoom-out links also loses that information
<kiko> carlos, not sure, BjornT might know.
<carlos> so we can use our custom name instead of the autogenerated one?
<carlos> ok
<carlos> I will check it with him when we look into fix it
<kiko> the zoom-in and out thing is also a wart
<kiko> we could have the images be post buttons
<kiko> and then submit the translations too
<kiko> but it'd not be a fun thing to implement :-(
<carlos> I have such feature already implemented
<carlos> to copy translations
<carlos> for TranslationReview
<carlos> so I think the adaptation of that code to do what you suggest for zoom buttons should be quite trivial
<kiko> maybe
<kiko> maybe
<kiko> salgado, ping?
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+ticket/1576
<kiko> salgado, how can that user have been emailed if he isn't active in launchpad?
<kiko> salgado, via a mailing list?
<salgado> crap
<salgado> kiko, I cleaned my screen and lost your messages
<kiko> sure
<kiko> <kiko> salgado, ping?
<kiko> <kiko> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+ticket/1576
<kiko> <kiko> salgado, how can that user have been emailed if he isn't active in launchpad?
<kiko> <kiko> salgado, via a mailing list?
* salgado checks
<kiko> salgado, also
<kiko> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-audio-art
<kiko> geoff newman is a member of this team
<kiko> but his account is inactive
<kiko> wtf?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70952 in malone "LookupError when a product adopt malone as its bugtracker and that product already have bugwatches." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70952
<salgado> kiko, what can you see at https://launchpad.net/people/geoff-newman/+editemails ?
<mini> kiko: ok, see bug 70953
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70953 in malone "Cannot edit "Product" of remote bug watch" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70953
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70953 in malone "Cannot edit "Product" of remote bug watch" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70953
<stub> kiko: I set his email address to OLD
<kiko> stub, oh. why?
<stub> Because he is using some challenge response system that spams launchpad
<kiko> stub, yeah, that's true. 
<kiko> did you contact him first?
<lamont> kiko: his spam solution doesn't scale...  specifically, it only works if no one you communicate with uses it.
<kiko> heh
<stub> Nope. That would involve using extremely irritating challenge response systems that my mail client deletes as spam
<kiko> I don't disagree
<lamont> rather, it doesn't work if the other side of a conversation uses it
<kiko> I'm just saying that I'd have contacted him
<lamont> kiko: how - stub's email deletes his challenge as spam, so no communication is possible.
<kiko> lamont, stub's email doesn't necessarily need to delete it. and he could have asked me to contact him, if that was indeed the case.
<lamont> stub: this is where you say "I sent him an email informing him of the issue" :-)
<lamont> kiko: he clearly doesn't want email
<kiko> ...
<stub> I stopped being nice to users after my 5th year of having to support users. I changed careers after my 6th year.
<lamont> :)
<stub> Eventually we will have a bounce processor that will catch these bounces and disable email addresses automatically, so we can consider my current workflow a prototype.
* kiko frowns at stub and contacts the user.
<lamont> kiko: make sure he understands that his spam solution is incompatible with launchpad usage....
<kiko> he may well be unaware of that, which is exactly why I'm contacting him
<lamont> right
<kiko> stub, is the staging db all right?
<lamont> also incompatible with anyone else silly enough to use that system
<stub> kiko: It is updating. Taking time today due to a rollout failure last night.
<stub> patch-67-30-0 is taking quite some time (first run against production data, so I don't know exactly how long)
<kiko> ah, right
<kiko> cool!
<kiko> the timezone here makes it happen at an odd hour
<kiko> for me
<stub> Updates now require 3 hours less downtime
<stub> But the downtime window will still be noticeable in cases like this one where the db patch takes non-trivial time to run
<kiko> stub, I'm surprised it is non-trivial, but then again we /are/ adding a column to a VERY BIG TABLE
<stub> Adding the column is near instantaneous. Adding values to the new column is what takes the time, as it writes 30 odd million new rows (and bloats the table accordingly...)
<stub> I think there is a trigger on the table too, so that needs to be executed for each row even though it is just going to say 'I'm not interested - keep going'
<kiko> stub, I found that we update rosettastatistics too often
<kiko> not sure why we do it
<carlos> kiko: you mean while we translate?
<stub> rosettastatistics?
<kiko> carlos, yes.
<carlos> kiko: because it's the only way to know what's missing to be translated
<carlos> we cannot run it as a cron task
<kiko> carlos, mmmm,
<kiko> really?
<carlos> it's better that than raise more complex queries to see what's missing
<carlos> to give feedback to the user
<kiko> I don't understand
<carlos> kiko: it would be quite confusing that we say '5 strings left to translate' but when you filter the messages to see the ones untranslated
<carlos> you get none
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> I see.
<kiko> there might be better ways of doing that
<carlos> that will produce a bunch of bug reports about not finding missing translations....
<carlos> kiko: I don't think it's a bottle neck atm
<kiko> no, /better/ ways :)
<carlos> at least not with our current system
<carlos> perhaps once we fix suggestions, it would became it...
<kiko> carlos, I'm not sure myself. I think I looked into it and it had high overhead because it was locked by everybody submitting +translate
<carlos> but anyway, we do it once per form submission
<kiko> yes
<carlos> why should it be a problem?
<kiko> and it's a shared lock
<kiko> because multiple users lock themselves out
<kiko> as do double-posts
<carlos> hmm
<kiko> I need to look into that though
<kiko> thanks for your comments, you have good points
<carlos> well, the same would apply to the translation action...
<kiko> not really.. that's done on the message level
<kiko> not on the whole file level
<carlos> we already moved it from a per message update to a per single submit 
<carlos> to reduce the overhead
<carlos> but yes, it would became a problem
<carlos> but I 'm more concerned about suggestions ;-)
<kiko> carlos, do you have that asynchronous suggestions code?
<carlos> the one I wrote with AJAX?
<carlos> yes, it should be on devpad
<kiko> technolog!
<kiko> errr
<kiko> that sounded stupid
<kiko> technology
<kiko> BjornT, did you see mini's problem above?
<somerville32> Hi
<kiko> hi
<somerville32> How can I register a product as a team instead of myself?
<kiko> somerville32, you can 'change registrant'
<somerville32> Ah, k.
<somerville32> Can I delete a product after I create it?
<kiko> somerville32, no!
<kiko> somerville32, if you want to test, please use staging.launchpad.net
<somerville32> Can I do anything I wnaqt on staging?
<kiko> yes
<kiko> you can
<somerville32> I get 502
<kiko> however
<kiko> it's currently rebuilding :-(
<kiko> can you wait a few hours?
<somerville32> haha
<somerville32> Sure.
<somerville32> Another question
<somerville32> Would it be wise to register a product for Xubuntu?
<kiko> somerville32, a distro, yes, probably. who runs it?
<kiko> distros are registered by admins
<somerville32> Well, Xubuntu is a sister project like Kubuntu
<kiko> yeah..
<kiko> actually xubuntu is just different seeds right?
<kiko> in that case it probably wouldn't make too much sense to register it separately..
<kiko> hmmm
<somerville32> I just thought it might serve organizationaly
<somerville32> You can associate packages with a product, right?
<kiko> yeah, you have a point
<somerville32> and bugs
<kiko> kinda
<somerville32> and specifications
<somerville32> and support requests
<kiko> packages kinda
<kiko> bugs and specs and requests yes
* somerville32 nods.
<lifeless> somerville32: a package has a *single* product.
<kiko> lifeless, not really
<kiko> but its meant to be a 1ish-1ish relationship, you're right there.
<somerville32> It just seems to me that Xubuntu is just all jumbled in with Ubuntu
<kiko> (there are different packaging types.. it's non-trivial)
<lifeless> kiko: its meant to be 'one product, one codebase'
<somerville32> And it can be confusing to work through at times.
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> somerville32, who runs it?
<lifeless> kiko: packages can represent 'one package N codebases' in theory, but not in practice.
<kiko> yeh
<somerville32> Kiko: Jani, I would say.
<kiko> ah
<lifeless> somerville32: when you write code, you should have a 'product' for each codebase.
<kiko> somerville32, if he wants to talk about registering it let me know
<lifeless> somerville32: xubuntu would be a bad catchall because you would end up putting unrelated code together.
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Just being able to group specifications, bugs, etc. I could see as a benefit.
<somerville32> What do you think would be the best option?
<kiko> somerville32, a distro. but there's an odd handle on that on the packaging and bug side of things.
<kiko> and translations of course
<somerville32> Since Xubuntu shares so much with Ubuntu, it would just create a lot of work for us.
<somerville32> Maybe a good new feature for launchpad could address this issue? I'm not sure what but I'm sure there is something that could be done to make things easier.
<kiko> yes
<kiko> there are things we need to do to correctly support that sort of derivative
* somerville32 nods.
<kiko> for instance
<kiko> bugs filed in xubuntu are really ubuntu bugs
<kiko> except for bugs in the seed selections
* somerville32 nods.
<mcdonaldswes> I'm slightly confused about the scope of launchpad... is it a sourceforge replacement? I know I can track bugs with it, but I can't seem to find any mention of setting mailing lists for my project, or hosting a bzr repo
<kiko> so carlos 
<kiko> mcdonaldswes, we host bzr repos.
<dsas> mcdonaldswes: It doesn't do mailing lists but it does do bzr...I'll see if I can dig out the docs
<kiko> mcdonaldswes, we don't do mailing lists yet though
<dsas> kiko: Does that mean it's somewhere planned in the future? :)
<kiko> dsas, yeah, it is, but shhhhh
* dsas zips his mouth up
<dsas> mcdonaldswes: http://ddaa.net/blog/launchpad/bzr-hosting
<kiko> and also http://blogs.gnome.org/view/jamesh/2006/08/17/1
<kiko> ddaa, ping?
<kiko> carlos, ping?
<mcdonaldswes> I'm working on a distro based on dapper, so it would make most sense to host this project with launchpad, right? If I understand correctly, that means I can automatically include dapper bugs for whatever packages we use in our launchpad project bug tracker
<kiko> mcdonaldswes, you can indeed
<kiko> that's exactly how it works.
<carlos> kiko: I'm having lunch right now...
* somerville32 pokes kiko.
<kiko> carlos, ping me when you're back.
<kiko> somerville32, what did I do now?
<somerville32> Couldn't we do that then?
<somerville32> For Xubuntu?
<carlos> ok
<kiko> somerville32, register xubuntu? lifeless is going to chat with jani and mdz to see what they think.
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> Is it worth it?
<somerville32> Why hasn't Kubuntu done anything like that?
<SteveA> mcdonaldswes: we plan to host mailing lists in the future.
<SteveA> ah, I see kiko already said that
<mcdonaldswes> ok, cool
<kiko> SteveA, then I said "shhhh"
<kiko> somerville32, I'm not sure it's worth it, perhaps mdz will have a good definitive answer for us
<mcdonaldswes> heh, that's what he thinks of mailing lists
<kiko> mcdonaldswes, yes, places where people should be quiet. :)
<ausimage> Hello I am responsible for posting the Meeting Logs on wiki.u.c. I have been talking with Jono about improving the process. I am looking for feedback on a spec being drafted MeetingSummarySpec on wiki.u.c. It is about using Launchpad in similar manner to Roseta, but for Team Meeting Logs.
<ausimage> Does anyone have comments? I feel this would fit into Launchpad. It helps build and inform the community by sharing decisions and discussions made during IRC meetings.
<jordi> ausimage: hmm, I can't input too much
<jordi> I think there could be some space for that in lp too
<ausimage> I know I am trying to gage my saneness factor
<jordi> you might want to stay around until someone who can actually make it happen answers
<ausimage> I am also trying to feel out the process to possible push the idea forward
<ausimage> jordi: An end goal would be to make the logs available to team to create official summaries of them
<kiko> ausimage, so you want to translate logs?
<kiko> using launchpad to translate them?
<jordi> no
<ausimage> That could be part of it. But mostly to provide 'minutes of them'.
<kiko> or is there no translation angle (that's what similar to Rosetta means to me)
<kiko> ah
<kiko> just summarize logs.
<jordi> the main idea is to be able to post them I think?
<kiko> well
<kiko> what could Launchpad help you with?
<ausimage> Yeah so anyone can visit a team page and see the the irc meeting logs for that team
<kiko> well
<kiko> ausimage, you can just add the logs to the team's homepage text
<kiko> that's cheap
<ausimage> Kiko read wiki.uc./MeetingLog Summary
<ausimage> MeetingSummarySpec
<ausimage> that was
<ausimage> I am looking at allowing teams setting meetings that a script could grab the log and make it available
<kiko> SteveA, THANK YOU. I have asked for that 100000 times!
<ausimage> kiko did you check out wiki,u.c/MeetingSummarySpec ?
<kiko> ausimage, yes.
<SteveA> kiko: wassat?
<kiko> ausimage, it's kinda hand-wavy to me tbh; I fear adding structured data and then different people wanting to use it differently
<kiko>   [trivial]  add build revno to main templates
<SteveA> ah, right.  ta!
<kiko> I <3 SteveA 
<kiko> no seriously
<kiko> of course this is the revno of the production branch right?
<SteveA> it's the revno of whatever branch you are running
<kiko> right.
<kiko> so for production..anyway, good job!
<SteveA> we could do a special make runproduction that gets some different info to present
<kiko> yeah
<SteveA> and use that in production or something
<SteveA> anyway, see how useful this is in practice
<kiko> will do.
<ausimage> kiko The logs would always be read only as well as the official summary and be made available on the teams page and in a calendar. I guess I don't see many other uses...
<kiko> ausimage, why don't you start by adding the logs to the homepage content? (you know, edit homepage)?
<ausimage> I guess handling the meeting logs so far I have realized some limitations...
<ausimage> Meetings are scattered across several channels....
<kiko> really?!
<ausimage> Yeah... at least that is my impression...
<carlos> kiko: pong
<kiko> carlos, hey there.
<ausimage> I am thinking of an automated process that can at least get the logs for meeting teams have
<kiko> carlos, were there any bugs that deserved filing from that rosetta thread I commented on yesterday?
<carlos> kiko: there is only one that we are not yet working on
<carlos> and it's already filed
<carlos> did you see my email?
<kiko> carlos, yeah. okay, just checking
<carlos> at least I don't think there is anything missing in malone or our spec tracking (and being implemented)
<carlos> we would need a second run with Tim and the others
<carlos> to check whether we addressed all their main concerns
<carlos> once everything is on production
<ausimage> kiko so my thinking was to allow teams set meetings that can then be grabbed. Launchpad has the teams already so why not have it grab and manage the meeting logs.
<kiko> ausimage, it will be a lot of work, most likely
<kiko> and you'd need to have a workflow well-established before justifying that
<ausimage> kiko I understand that part, but launchpad already contains part of the infrastructure required 
<kiko> ausimage, what's that?
<kiko> the teams?
<ausimage> Yeah the teams...
<kiko> use the team homepage to record this for now
<kiko> it's some work but not significant work
<ausimage> K um not any one can just edit the home page though....
<ausimage> I am just the person handling the logs for everyone... I have inquired about assistance in the past, but never received responses except from Jono.
<ausimage> It seems the IRC meeting log thing is a low priority thing for most.
<ausimage> kiko thanks for the feedback I will take it under consideration as I work to improve the meeting logs.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70974 in rosetta "mo download without --use-fuzzy option" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70974
<mpt> SteveA, around?
<SteveA> mpt: hi
<Ubugtu> New bug: #70982 in blueprint "no notification about subscription modification" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70982
#launchpad 2006-11-09
<kiko> stub, still restoring, eh?
<kiko> wow
<kiko> that's a long time.
<agent> does anyone know what the function of "karma" is in launchpad? does it do anything?
<SteveA> lifeless: ping
<SteveA> lifeless: forwarded you email from pqm -- gpg signing problem on ui branch
<carlos> agent: helps to anyone to evaluate your Ubuntu contribution based on the information tracked by launchpad
<somerville32> I have 131257 karma - is that a decent ammount?
<agent> carlos, thank you.... but aside from being a statistic, it does not do anything else, correct? karma cannot be used, given or made to do things (ala slashdot)
<carlos> no, we don't have such feature right now
<kiko> agent, it doesn't currently, but there are plans to use it for credit later.
<somerville32> How so?
<agent> carlos, okay... thanks... would be nice to have a page about karma somewhere :D
<carlos> agent: you mean 'documentation' explaining this kind of things?
<agent> err... i meant kiko :)
<kiko> agent, there's a page here:
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> it's not online anymore
<agent> :)
<carlos> kiko: X-)
<kiko> okay, you're right
<kiko> we need karma docs
<agent> i searched before i asked
* kiko bags head
<agent> and the doc should be somehow visible in launchpad... maybe add it to the faq
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> help.launchpad.net
<agent> also, maybe this is an oversight by myself, but that help.launchpad.net is not linked in lauchpad.net anywhere that i could find
<agent> there is a nice faq link at the bottom
<SteveA> stub: ping
<SteveA> stub: ping again, as it's late here
<carlos> STUB ERE
<carlos> SteveA: pong
<carlos> my laptop is upgrading
<SteveA> carlos: hi
<SteveA> so, kiko is reviewing my refactoring of our vhosting
<SteveA> I've updated all the launchpad.confs on mainline
<SteveA> anything else I need to do?
<lifeless> kiko: still here ?
<carlos> nah should just work
<kiko> YES
<kiko> but I am about to go out to dinner
<SteveA> https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileO16s3F.html
<lifeless> got 2 minutes ?
<SteveA> if you're interested
<kiko> sure.
<SteveA> all the virtual hosting things are collected together into a single section
<SteveA> and the whole section may be safely omitted
<SteveA> although if it is present, it must be complete
<SteveA> I noticed when updating the launchpad.conf files that the production ones aren't up to date
<SteveA> no mention of features.launchpad.net nor xmlrpc
<lifeless> somerville32: are you at UDS-MTV ?
<SteveA> are the production configs managed outside of mainline?
<somerville32> lifeless: I wish.
<somerville32> lifeless: Wanna fly me down?
<SteveA> lifeless: please look at the gpg error I mailed you about merging via pqm into ui-one-zero
<kiko> somerville32, there's NOTHING GOOD going on there
<kiko> trust me
<somerville32> Oh really? :(
<somerville32> Whys that?
<somerville32> Fighting?
<somerville32> Flaming?
<somerville32> Crying?
<kiko> well, for starters, I'm not there
<SteveA> poker, I believe
<kiko> so how can it be good
<somerville32> haha
<carlos> vhosting stuff will not be uptodate in the gina and librarian configs, gina because it is obsolete and librarian because the webapp is never run with that config <8just the libraryan<9
<kiko> in my book if I'm not at the place it's not worth going there
<carlos> so no worries
<carlos> i hate spanish keyboards
<SteveA> it wasn't in production[1..4]  either I think
<kiko> SteveA, I think stub <3 you
* somerville32 predicts that the democrats will take the senate.
<SteveA> in brasil?
<somerville32> USA
<kiko> there are no democrats in brazil
<SteveA> well, if democrats have better immigration policy, so they'll let brasilians visit the US for conferences without the hassle of months of waiting for a visa...
<kiko> that's a point
* carlos is again carlos
<SteveA> carlos: please tell stub that the new vhosting stuff ought to land tomorrow morning, europe time
<somerville32> lifeless: Why do you ask?
<carlos> ok
<carlos> SteveA: done
<SteveA> thanks carlos 
<lifeless> tchau tchau food time
<lifeless> somerville32: if you were here I could talk with you face to face.
<somerville32> Oh, haha. Freaky
<somerville32> Is Jani there? Have you talked with him?
<carlos> np
<somerville32> How often do they sponsor people to go to these events?
<kiko> sometimes
* somerville32 sighs.
<somerville32> I don't like how wishlist items are handled in launchpad.
<somerville32> Wishlist should be a status, not an importance.
<somerville32> Infact... maybe it's a bug?
<lifeless> no, its quite deliberate
<somerville32> Could you elaborate?
<lifeless> wishlist says that the importance of the thing to the product/distro is that of items on a wishlist
* somerville32 boggles.
<lifeless> - they will not put effort into making it happen, but if someone else provides it, it will be accepted
<somerville32> Ok, thats good
<somerville32> But people use it for feature requests
<kiko> somerville32, are you talking about bug statuses?
<kiko> I don't agree with lifeless, ftr
* somerville32 nods.
<somerville32> I reject feature requests
<kiko-fud> well
<kiko-fud> I wouldn't go that far
<kiko-fud> but the line between bug and feature is not straight
<kiko-fud> and on that line
<somerville32> but someone told me to confirm them so that they can keep track of feature requests that are too small to require a specification
<kiko-fud> I am going to have some thai
<kiko-fud> that someone was wise
<lifeless> mmm, thai
<lifeless> ... me kangeroo down sport
<somerville32> Maybe there should be a feature request section and a seperate specification section?
<somerville32> Or modify malone to facilitate feature requests?
<kiko-fud> I don't think malone's bad for feature requests
<kiko-fud> I can't for one think of a large change I could make to it to better acomodate features
<somerville32> It is all just mixed together though
<kiko-fud> perhaps allowing wiki markup in descriptions
<kiko-fud> somerville32, use the "feature" tag.
<kiko-fud> tags are the future
<somerville32> Hmm...
<somerville32> Maybe have a type field?
<somerville32> And then get rid of support requests
<somerville32> and just use malone
<somerville32> or make a feature request section since support requests get their own section, haha
<kiko-fud> support requests and bugs are separate indeed
<kiko-fud> and tags are the future
<kiko-fud> use tags
<somerville32> rfe != bugs :P
<somerville32> Ok ok
<kiko-fud> that's the meme of the week
<somerville32> How about implementing ajax to auto-complete tags?
<somerville32> kiko-fud: Do you think ubuntu-qa would accept me?
<Fujitsu> somerville32: Ask ubuntu-qa, they're going to be best equipped to tell you :)
<somerville32> What if they say no?
<somerville32> : O
<lifeless> jamesh: ping
<lifeless> jamesh: can you get the scheduler to show specs which cannot be scheduled due to missing requirements ?
<lifeless> i.e. 'cannot schedule foo' because attendee 'bar' is required and not present
<lifeless> jamesh: or does it take that into consideration already ?
<jamesh> lifeless: those specs are currently filtered out of the input of the scheduler, actually.
<jamesh> lifeless: actually, no.  Those attendees are removed from the input
<jamesh> except in the case where they were an assignee, etc
<lifeless> jamesh: ok. instead let me not that we're finding it hard to debug why some important specs are not scheduling
<lifeless> jamesh: for instance, the 09 schedule often only schedules 2 specs in a session - low parallellisation
<lifeless> tchau for now
<jamesh> lifeless: this is the list I produced for a few days ago: https://devpad.canonical.com/~andrew/paste/fileMR5GxJ.html
<jamesh> but I think some of those have since been fixed.
<somerville32> It goes YYYY-MM-DD, right?
<mpt> kiko-fud, see the IssueTracker spec :-)
<kiko-fud> what?!
<mpt> <kiko-fud> I can't for one think of a large change I could make to it to better acomodate features  <kiko-fud> perhaps allowing wiki markup in descriptions
<kiko-fud> I do not want to THINK about that at this ungodly hour!
<mpt> heh, fair enough
<somerville32> :] 
<somerville32> mpt: Your nickname seems so familiar. Have I chatted with you before? (Or should I know you? haha)
<kiko-fud> somerville32, I think ubuntu-qa might consider accepting you if you offer them some money
<somerville32> kiko-fud: haha, I'll keep that in mind <g>
<mpt> somerville32, not that I remember
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71020 in launchpad "Tell people where they are on the karma scale" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71020
<somerville32> I still can't access https://staging.launchpad.net/ :(
<kiko-zzz> somerville32, I think stub has sandbagged us all
<kiko-zzz> or maybe it was carlos
<kiko-zzz> it's hard to tell at this point
<somerville32> :] 
<kiko-zzz> SOMEBODY did this crazy patch
<kiko-zzz> to fix rosetta
<kiko-zzz> and it is taking geological time to get applied
<somerville32> Whose around?
<somerville32> er.. mischan
<stub> bah. We appear to have two staging upgrades running simultaneously.
<stub> Although the first is *still* running...
* somerville32 pokes stub with stick rather hard.
<stub> It wasn't me!
<somerville32> hehe
<somerville32> The real question is: Can you fix it, Jim?
<stub> I can make the patch go faster the next run at least. But it won't be available for at least 3.5 hours.
<stub> (Part of what staging does is hit problems like these before they go into production)
<stub> Bah. Can't make it go faster :-(
<somerville32> :(
* Mez -> bed
<jamesh> mpt: new FormLayout has landed in rocketfuel
<lifeless> jamesh: so is approver=team ok ?
<jamesh> lifeless: not in general.  I put a small hack in to recognise certain teams and ignore them for scheduling purposes (mdz should have that code)
<lifeless> jamesh: are the teams you listed in that hack ? :)
<jamesh> lifeless: yeah: techboard, communitycouncil, rosetta-admins and ubuntu-art
<jamesh> it should be trivial to add more if needed
<lifeless> ok. so thats one thing to watch for.
<lifeless> so in that list, why are there problems ? :)
<lifeless> erm, rephrase. Can you do anything for the scheduling on friday (in about 18 hours from now), to make it easier to figure out why it fails to schedule somethings ?
<lifeless> i.e. if its strictly priority first, and theres a high priority one being non-scheduled, saying 'skipping X because Y' to console might help.
<jamesh> lifeless: looking now.  This is the list of specs that couldn't be scheduled: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/uds-mtv/2006-11-09/cantschedule.txt
<jamesh> it gets added to that list if the score for every slot is 0 (i.e. it can't fit anywhere)
<jamesh> it isn't tracking common reasons for not being able to fit the meeting in slots
<jamesh> the ordering of that list matches the order that it tried to schedule them.
<lifeless> anything you can do to increase the diagnostic ability of mdz woud be great
<lifeless> gnight, its nearly 1am
<somerville32> Anyone around?
<jamesh> yes
<somerville32> Hi :] 
<somerville32> Do you think it would be useful to register Xubuntu as a project?
<jamesh> don't know.  What feature are you after?
<somerville32> I'm just looking for an easier way to organize, triage, and manage xubuntu bugs, specifications, etc.
<somerville32> Currently, since Xubuntu is derived from Ubuntu, it is all mangled together with Ubuntu.
<jamesh> hmm
<jamesh> would bug tags help on the bugs front?
<somerville32> I would think so :] 
<somerville32> Oh, it looks like there is already a project for xfce
<somerville32> Whats a driver?
<jamesh> in the case of distros/products, it is meant to be the person/team that decides where the distro/product will go
<somerville32> Whats the difference between the maintainer and the driver?
<jamesh> in a small project, not much
<jamesh> in a larger project, you might have more maintainers/developers than drivers
* somerville32 huggles launchpad.
<somerville32> Launchpad is such a beautiful creation.
<somerville32> How do I answer support requests?
<somerville32> haha, nvm <g>
<mpt> Good morning matsubara 
<matsubara> morning mpt 
<mpt> Meeting today?
<matsubara> that's what the topic says
<ddaa> guess so...
<jamesh> mpt: the new FormLayout stuff is in rocketfuel now
<mpt> great
<flacoste> meeting time?
<matsubara> SteveA: ?
<mpt> SteveA is away (away)
<mpt> Any volunteers? :-)
<matsubara> well, let's get this going then. Welcome to the LP weekly meeting!
<matsubara> so who's here today?
<ddaa> me
<mpt> me
<matsubara> me
<flacoste> me
<cprov> me
<jamesh> me
<matsubara> spiv? 
<somerville32> me
<ddaa> somerville32: new hire?
* somerville32 isn't important.
<mpt> Non-developers are welcome
<matsubara> jordi: ?
<spiv> me
<matsubara> == Agenda ==
<matsubara>  * Roll call
<matsubara>  * Agenda
<matsubara>  * Next meeting
<matsubara>  * Activity reports
<matsubara>  * Actions from last meeting
<matsubara>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
<matsubara>  * Bug report report (mpt)
<mpt> ddaa, would you like to call SteveA?
<matsubara>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
<SteveA> is that the time already!
<matsubara>  * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<matsubara>  * Sysadmin requests
<matsubara> ----
<jordi> hello
<matsubara>  * Poll to check use of smartserver on devpad, any issues etc. (spiv)
<mpt> oh, never mind
<matsubara>  * Help text in templates
<matsubara>  * (other items)
<jordi> sorry, just sat down
<matsubara> ----
<matsubara>  * Keep, Bag, Change
<matsubara>  * Three sentences
<matsubara> SteveA: should I continue or you assume from now on?
<spiv> matsubara: the smartserver item is from last week, you can drop it.
<SteveA> matsubara: please go on
<matsubara> spiv: ok
<matsubara> so next meeting? shall we make it at the allhands with everyone in person?
<SteveA> yes
<jamesh> probably not same time next week though :)
<SteveA> next meeting in 2 weeks
* ..[topic/#launchpad:matsubara] : Developer meeting: Thu 23 Nov, 1200UTC (wiki:MeetingAgenda) | launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com (wiki:MailingLists) | Channel logs: http://tinyurl.com/72w39
<mpt> How about 1700 UTC?
<mpt> aka 9am
<jordi> I won't be at allhands, very unfortunately :(
<SteveA> we'll just wing it at all hands
<SteveA> see what the schedule looks like
<mpt> ok
<SteveA> there will be various meetings to do with launchpad there
<jordi> so will it just be "live", or online even if you're on the same room?
<SteveA> jordi: no meeting next week
<jordi> ok.
<ddaa> a standard meeting would be pretty moot
<matsubara> * Activity reports
* ddaa votes for a drinking game meeting
<SteveA> or a moot
<matsubara> +1 ddaa 
<mpt> not up to date
<ddaa> up to date
<SteveA> not up to date
<cprov> up to date
<matsubara> I'm up to date
<flacoste> up to date
<jordi> not up to date
<jordi> but getting close
<jamesh> not up to date
<spiv> not up to date
<somerville32> not up to date?
<matsubara> congrats to those up to date. I'm guilty of batching the reports.
<matsubara> I see that lots of people are not up to date.
<SteveA> somerville32: hello.  in these meetings, there's a mixture of stuff that is about keeping the launchpad development team at canonical running as a distributed team
<SteveA> somerville32: and also stuff about the day-to-day and week by week running of the launchpad application
<SteveA> somerville32: and developing new features
<somerville32> :] 
<matsubara> is that because of the conferences? if yes, make a big batch of you latest activities
<matsubara> it's better than nothing 
<matsubara> * Actions from last meeting
<SteveA> somerville32: you're welcome to be here in the meeting, but don't worry about the sections that aren't to do specifically with launchpad features or quality or issues
<matsubara> I think those are not up to date as well:
<matsubara> * spiv to finish the damn __eq__ for database objects action item
<matsubara>  * jamesh to mail the launchpad@ list with instructions on making bzr+ssh:// and PQM coexist
<mpt> Those are up to date, matsubara 
<jamesh> done
<matsubara> oh, I thougth it was from the last meeting.
<mpt> For spiv's, last meeting he said "there's something in the review queue"
<matsubara> thanks jamesh 
<spiv> mpt: right
<mpt> Did it get landed?
<matsubara> so it can be considered done, right?
<spiv> Not landed.  I'm midway through some small changes to it (ETA: done by end of this meeting ;) ), and so far it's unreviewed.
<spiv> I'll mail kiko (the reviewer) about it tonight, and if he is too busy I'll get it reassigned.
<SteveA> done means passed review and in mainline
<SteveA> otherwise, it's not really integrated and available to everyone
* matsubara nods to SteveA 
<SteveA> apparently, I have a whole *DVD* of stuff that is in that state
<matsubara> Moving on; * Oops report (Matsubara)
<matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 70952, 52576
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70952 in malone "LookupError when a product adopt malone as its bugtracker and that product already have bugwatches." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70952
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52576 in malone "+backport needs better input validation " [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52576
<SteveA> just ask kiko.  but it takes work to make it really "done"
<matsubara> Bug 70952 is not assigned. This is not a common situation but I left the importace as high because it's very bad press release. The jokosher product just adopted malone as its official bugtracker and some bug pages crashed for them. Who can take this one?
<SteveA> whenever I see the word "backport", I think of that cheesy cronenburg film "existenz"
<matsubara> Bug 52576 was assigned to Brad. He left a comment saying that the +backport page in question is gone in his release management branch, but it needs some tweaking in the +nominate page. Should I just re-assing this to BjornT, since he's the one working on the release management branch?
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 52576 in malone "+backport needs better input validation " [Medium,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/52576
<mpt> matsubara, BjornT is probably asleep. Does it need fixing before next week?
<ddaa> SteveA: its not cheezy
<mpt> (70952, I mean)
<SteveA> ddaa: sorry I dissed your favourite film ;-)
<matsubara> mpt: not really. it's probably taken care of in the release mgmt branch
<ddaa> SteveA: sorry I dissed your favourite VCS last meeting :)
<matsubara> anyway, I'll talk to him later
<matsubara> * Bug report report (mpt)
<mpt> There are 12 known Critical bugs in Launchpad without released fixes. They are:
<mpt>  * Bug #929 (Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns), Critical, Fix Committed, jamesh
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 929 in launchpad "Long words (such as URLs) overflow columns" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/929
<mpt> SteveA, should it be a policy that Critical means "important enough to be cherrypicked as soon as it's fixed"?
<SteveA> no
<matsubara> mpt, bug 929 is blocked
<mpt> blocked?
<matsubara> it's fixed and the cherrypicked was requested
<jamesh> 929 couldn't be cherrypicked, since the rev depended on some previous ones
<jamesh> (test fixes)
<matsubara> but it's blocked on landing a big support tracker patch before
<SteveA> it should be policy that Critical means "important enough to dsicuss cherrypicking of it with stuart and/or me+kiko"
<ddaa> critical means "drop whatever you're doing and fix it godamnit"
<mpt> ok.
<mpt>  * Bug #2497 (/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators), Critical, Fix Committed, kiko
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 2497 in rosetta "/people/*/+translations times out for prolific translators" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/2497
<mpt>  * Bug #30602 (Timeout errors in +translate), Critical, In Progress, kiko
<mpt> kiko-zzz isn't here
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 30602 in rosetta "Timeout errors in +translate" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/30602
<jamesh> it'll be in the next rollout though
<mpt>  * Bug #44214 (We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path), Critical, In Progress, carlos
<mpt>  * Bug #46982 (Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
<mpt>  * Bug #68014 (Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values), Critical, In Progress, carlos
<mpt>  * Bug #70141 (ubuntu-docs templates are gone), Critical, Confirmed, carlos
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44214 in rosetta "We need to add code to prevent POFiles being in the same path" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44214
<mpt> carlos isn't here
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 46982 in rosetta "Rosetta does not accept correct KDE plural forms when there are more than 2" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/46982
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 68014 in rosetta "Rosetta reverts translation fixes to old faulty values" [Critical,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/68014
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70141 in rosetta "ubuntu-docs templates are gone" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70141
<mpt>  * Bug #48948 (dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be), Critical, Confirmed, malcc, who's not here
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 48948 in soyuz "dapper indices files still being regenerated but shouldn't be" [Critical,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/48948
<mpt>  * Bug #56618 (Milestone restrictions are too restrictive for Ubuntu), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
<mpt>  * Bug #64017 (Setting a bug confidential after its creation creates a ghost bug), Fix Committed, bradb
<mpt>  * Bug #66562 (BugSubscriberPortletView.getSubscribersFromDupes seems to cause timeouts), Critical, Fix Committed, bradb
<mpt> BjornT isn't here to decide which of those need cherrypicks
<SteveA> matsubara: I want to say a few things about critical bugs after mpt is done.
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 56618 in malone "Milestone restrictions are too restrictive for Ubuntu" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/56618
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64017 in launchpad "Setting a bug confidential after its creation creates a ghost bug" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64017
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66562 in malone "BugSubscriberPortletView.getSubscribersFromDupes seems to cause timeouts" [Critical,Fix committed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66562
<mpt> and finally
<mpt>  * Bug #66383 (private), Critical, In Progress, ddaa
<Ubugtu> Bug 66383 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/66383 is private
<mpt> yes, Ubugtu, we know
<mpt> ddaa, tell us about progress on 66383 :-)
<ddaa> mpt: mh... that one needs discussion... there's a quick fix in review, but it does not affect the UI
<mpt> ddaa, so make a note to discuss it next week?
<ddaa> and I'm not entirely clear yet on how the UI should be extended to handle the problem
<mpt> all right
<ddaa> well... discussion here mostly means "I mean to sit down and figure it out"
<mpt> ok
<mpt> That's all from me, thanks matsubara, over to SteveA 
<ddaa> I'd rather avoid bikesheddinh unless I really need input.
<matsubara> thanks mpt
<SteveA> The process for getting a bugfix cherrypicked looks like this:
<SteveA>  - If the bug is critical, fix the bug, then ask Stuart if it can be
<SteveA>    cherrypicked.  Write as a comment in the bug report why it deserves
<SteveA>    to be cherrypicked.
<SteveA>  - If the bug is not critical, don't even discuss getting it cherrypicked.
<SteveA>    If you think it needs to be cherrypicked, then you need to make the
<SteveA>    bug "critical", the same as you would get the importance set on any other
<SteveA>    bug.
<SteveA> So, there are two possible conversations:
<SteveA>  - the conversation to make a non-critical bug into a critical bug.
<SteveA>  - the conversation to make a critical bug be cherrypicked.
<SteveA> 
<SteveA> The point of this is to make the process clear to everyone, and also so that Stuart is consulted only about bugs we've agreed are critical.
<SteveA> Any questions or comments?
<ddaa> seems heavyweight
<SteveA> ddaa: please explain
<flacoste> "the conversation to make a non-critical bug into a critical bug": how does that happen?
<ddaa> sometimes, small fixes deserve to be cherrypicked even if they are not critical by any reasonable definition
<flacoste> apart from selecting the value in the bug page :-)
<SteveA> ddaa: I disagree.  Cherrypicking is a risky operation, and uses valuable stub time.
<ddaa> not very often for me at the moment, but I see how that can become an issue
<SteveA> If it needs cherrypicking then it must be critical.
<SteveA> If it's not critical, then it can wait.
<ddaa> *shrug* then let's agree to disagree
<SteveA> let's not disagree
<mpt> but if it's Critical it doesn't *necessarily* need cherrypicking
<SteveA> mpt: correct
<mpt> ok
<SteveA> ddaa: you may hold a different opinion of what is best
<SteveA> but I want you to agree to follow the process
<SteveA> flacoste: how do we decide on the importance of bugs now?
<ddaa> I think subsystems maintainer are in the best situation to assess the risk/benefit of a cherrypick
<jamesh> ddaa: the existing importance value is probably wrong if the fix deserves cherrypicking
<jamesh> (and it is of a lower importance)
<flacoste> SteveA: yeah, what is the process for that?
<ddaa> stub cost is another problem
<ddaa> I agree to follow the workflow, if that's what matters to you.
<SteveA> thank you ddaa.
<SteveA> flacoste: I don't think we have a formal process for that.
<SteveA> flacoste: the informal process is that matsubara sets importance sometimes, depending if the bug is causing an oops or whatever
<SteveA> or lots of support request or queries
<SteveA> and if the bug gets in the way of launchpad doing what it's meant to do -- stops some significant workflows for a lot of people
<SteveA> then it is very important
<flacoste> so, if I think that a bug importance should be raised, I ask mastubara?
<SteveA> if you think a bug's importance should be raised, just raise it, and leave a comment in the bug explaining why
<flacoste> fine
<matsubara> that's much better. specially because subsystem maintainer can make that call much better than I
<SteveA> anything else?
<flacoste> i'm fine
<matsubara> ok, moving on.
<SteveA> I expect any launchpad developer to set importance on any launchpad bugs they feel strongly about, provided they explain why in the bug
<matsubara>  * Production and staging (Stuart)
<mpt> He's probably asleep
<matsubara> well, stub not here, let's move the next topic
<jamesh> he's not here
<SteveA> so, we had a botched cherrypick.  read stu's report to the list for details.
<SteveA> it resulted in a 40 minute outage that had been expected to be only 10 minutes
<matsubara> * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<SteveA> and
<mpt> Evidence that cherrypicks are not to be requested lightly, then.
<SteveA> due to a problem with how the authserver handles a locked Person table, the wikis kinda hung during that time
<SteveA> so, we should improve the authserver to use our standard query timeout systems.
<SteveA> mpt: I agree.  Particularly cherrypicks involving database updates.
<SteveA> Other than that, things are fine in production.
<SteveA> done.
<matsubara> thanks SteveA, next item * Launchpad 1.0 status reports
<flacoste> * Support Tracker 1.0
<flacoste> SupportTrackerWorkflow: Completed.
<ddaa> supermirror-smart-server: no progress last week, spiv busy with reviews and getting the infrastructure merged in bzr
<flacoste> SupportTrackerViews: Landed. Missing 'Needs attention' report.
<flacoste> LocalizedSupportRequest: preferred-languages branch landed. Mostly in review (tt-add-localized-requests, tt-localized-requests-notifications), needs to finish tt-search-localized-requests.
<flacoste> SupportTrackerHelp: 75% completed. Missing Highlights, help on native language support and polish.
<flacoste> * Other 1.0 Features
<flacoste> DirectPersonCreation: 2nd round of review
<cprov> = Soyuz-1.0 Report =
<cprov>  * PPA: ppa-build-support & ppa-poppy (cprov, w-i-p)
<cprov>  * Archive Rework: pending review (malcc)
<cprov>  * NoMoreAptFtparchive: 2nd round review (cprov)
<cprov>  * Code quality:
<cprov>    * NascentUpload first refactoring (kiko, under development)
<cprov>  * General Fixing:
<cprov>    * Some help texts in progress.
<cprov>  * Last commits:
<cprov>    * DiskPoll refatoring (malcc)
<cprov>    * Single suite publication support (cprov)
<cprov>    * Cleanup on buildd content-classes (cprov)
<matsubara> no rosetta or malone reports since the danilo, carlos and bjorn aren't here, anything else missing?
<matsubara> * Sysadmin requests
<matsubara> 5
<matsubara> 4
<matsubara> 3
<matsubara> 2
<matsubara> 1
<matsubara> good! 3rd week in a row.
<matsubara> * Help text in templates (SteveA)
<SteveA> I saw some landing!
<SteveA> keep it coming.
<matsubara> * Keep, Bag, Change
<SteveA> quick poll, say "helped" if you added some help text to at least one template so far, "not helped" if you haven't yet, and "not my problem guvnor" if you have none to add
<ddaa> CHANGE: new moin with shiny wysiwyg editor on launchpad wikis
<SteveA> matsubara, ddaa: one moment please
<mpt> helped
<matsubara> sorry, SteveA 
<cprov> helped
<spiv> not my problem guvnor
<flacoste> helped
<SteveA> not my problem guvnor
<ddaa> helped
<matsubara> not my problem guvnor
<jamesh> helped
<SteveA> that everyone?
<SteveA> thanks james, ddaa, flacoste, cprov, mpt
<SteveA> done
<mpt> BAG: 4am meetings
<ddaa> CHANGE: new moin with shiny wysiwyg editor on launchpad wikis
<SteveA> mpt: I didn't expect UDS folks to be here, but I'm glad you decided to come.
<jamesh> so, everyone knows that new page templates must have help text to pass review?
<SteveA> ddaa: you want to remove the new moin, or you want us to adopt the new moin?
<mpt> heh
<ddaa> adopt the new moin
<SteveA> ddaa: mention it at allhands when we're (almost) all there
<mpt> jamesh, I didn't know that, but that's a good idea
<ddaa> If I wanted remove, I would have said "shitty" instead of "shiny"
<SteveA> mpt: I mailed the list, and jamesh mailed the reviews list
<mpt> My fault for not reading e-mail then :-)
<SteveA> time passes
<SteveA> you have been eaten by a grue
<matsubara> * Three sentences
<ddaa> DONE: vcs-imports bugfixes, reviews, upgrades, deployment, herding
<ddaa> TODO: vcs-imports review fixes, landing, herding, launchpad help texts
<ddaa> BLOCKED: no
<mpt> DONE: attending UDS
<mpt> TODO: finish UDS, finish 1.0 work
<mpt> BLOCKED: no
<cprov> DONE: ppa buildd support, code reviews, help texts
<cprov> TODO: ppa binary uploads support, UDS specifications, help texts
<cprov> BLOCKED: no
<flacoste> DONE: implemented notifications for localized support requests, refactoring of support contacts related methods in ITicketTarget, reviews
<flacoste> TODO: finish search related aspects of localized support requests, AllHands
<flacoste> BLOCKED: not really, but many branches stalled in review
<matsubara> DONE: holidays, triage, oops report analysis.
<matsubara> TODO: more of the same
<matsubara> BLOCKED: no
<jamesh> DONE: code reviews, sprint scheduler changes, spec-branches, bug import
<jamesh> TODO: code reviews, allhands
<jamesh> BLOCKED: no
<spiv> DONE: reviews, bzr smart server hacking
<spiv> TODO: reviews, bzr smart server hacking
<spiv> BLOCKED: no
<SteveA> DONE: landed build number for main templates on mainline
<SteveA> TODO: finish refactoring vhost support, and add new vhosts for bugs, blueprints, translations etc.
<SteveA> BLOCKED: no
<matsubara> flacoste: stalled why? no reviewers to take care of them?
<flacoste> matsubara: well, the review queue is getting longer and longer these days, many reviewers are busy
<SteveA> flacoste: that's a conversation we'll have next week
<flacoste> if you at the the Pending Branch Summary, you'll see that the average time in the needs-review state is near one week
<SteveA> I've been talking with lifeless about this
<SteveA> and we have some ideas and principles to discuss at all hands
<flacoste> SteveA: ok
<cprov> ah, forgot to mention
<cprov> TODO: stay home (not going to US-allhands, couldn't get visa at time)
<SteveA> we'll miss you, cprov !
<jamesh> cprov: that's a shame
<jordi> DONE: lots of imports, email
<flacoste> cprov: that's sad
<jamesh> cprov: I guess that means you'll be skipping the cavity searches :)
* ddaa will be so lonely at the smokers end
<cprov> SteveA: thanks, I'm sorry too
<jordi> TODO: final bits of email + queue
<jordi> BLOCKED: allhands :(
<SteveA> we'll miss you, jordi, too
<jordi> yeah, I'll miss the team
<spiv> cprov, jordi: you'll be missed :(
<jordi> more when it might have been a "goodbye" allhands for me.
<jordi> oh well, we'll see
<cprov> do you think we can get VOIP sessions for allhands as well ?
<matsubara> well, I guess that's it. Anything else?
<matsubara> MEETING ENDS, thanks everyone.
<ddaa> mpt: ping
<SteveA> thanks for running the meeting matsubara.  I like how you kept it very smooth.
<mpt> Thanks matsubara 
<mpt> ddaa, pong
<ddaa> mpt: the link to the detailed branch listing on the person/+branches page was removed, was what you?
<matsubara> SteveA, mpt: you're welcome
<ddaa> mpt: I'm trying to figure if this was just a mistake, or if it was intentional, and why.
<mpt> ddaa, not that I remember
<ddaa> btw
<mpt> I can't think of a good reason for that either
<ddaa> BAG: bzr going to swap hell when doing "bzr log FILE" on launchpad
<ddaa> mpt: I can imagine that making sense in a "let's make the UI simpler" approach
<LarstiQ> it's performance could be improved a bit, yes :)
<ddaa> in particular because this page does not expose the relation between the person and the branch
<ddaa> mpt: any opinion on whether it should be restored, or left as is?
<matsubara> cprov: better ask elmo about it
<mpt> ddaa, to express an opinion that was worth anything, I'd need to see a page how it was before
<mpt> Does production still have the link?
<ddaa> mpt: no
<ddaa> the page is https://launchpad.net/people/larstiq/+branchlisting
<ddaa> compare to https://launchpad.net/people/larstiq/+branches
<mpt> eww
<ddaa> ?
<cprov> matsubara: ok, I will check if it would be possible, thx
* ddaa looks at mpt with his best puzzled face
* somerville32 has a question.
<mpt> ddaa, those pages shouldn't both exist
<mpt> They should be combined *somehow*
<ddaa> mpt: why
<ddaa> there's the same duplication for products
<ddaa> one is short, good for browsing
<ddaa> one has details, good for exploring
<ddaa> consider https://launchpad.net/people/jameinel/+branches
<mpt> I don't think they're mutually exclusive
<ddaa> you mean one page with more state?
<spiv> Is the long one actually good for exploring?  I've always found it's good for making my eyes glaze over...
<mpt> I could draw up some designs for satisfying both goals
<ddaa> "show details" / "show brief listing"
<mpt> once 1.0 is done
<spiv> Also, looking at jameinel's branches it seems to me that we probably want to hide merged branches by default.
<ddaa> spiv: absolutely, there's a high prio. bug on this
<ddaa> it's the single most important bugfix we need to do to the branch ui
<mpt> bug 58889
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 58889 in launchpad-bazaar "Merged and abandoned branch should not appear in main branch listings" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/58889
<spiv> Assuming that the purpose of the page is to aid collaboration on active work, rather than dig through history (we have a VCS if people want a tool for looking at history of code...)
* spiv nods
<somerville32> When will staging be back up?
<spiv> mpt's suggestion on that bug is exactly what I would expect, too.
<ddaa> It's all defined. It just need to be done.
<ddaa> spiv: thanks for volunteering :)
* spiv tosses ddaa a round tuit.
<ddaa> wow! you've got surplus round tuits!
* ddaa decides to leave the person branches link as they are
<ddaa> mpt: generally, I think launchpad really abuses tabular listings
<ddaa> more often than not, they are really ugly and hard to read
<mpt> yes
<mpt> Often they are too wide, too
<mpt> In this case, I think perhaps a table that has two rows per branch
<ddaa> and lead to endless arguments about how columns should be ordered
<mpt> That's just an idea that comes to mind
<ddaa> Tim Berners Lee gave us UL.
* ddaa -> lunch
<mpt> What are your thoughts on bug listings? :-)
* mpt passes out
<ddaa> mpt: I like bug listings as they are
<ddaa> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad-bazaar/+bugs
<ddaa> looks fine to me
<ddaa> except maybe for the left hand column of portlets
<ddaa> well
<ddaa> no actually, it sucks
<ddaa> it displays nothing about tags
<ddaa> and assigned status
* ddaa -> lunch, really
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71074 in launchpad-bazaar "Merge the two variants of a person's branch listing" [Medium,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71074
<SteveA> kiko-zzz: not around yet?
<kiko-zzz> I'm half-around
<somerville32> :] 
<kiko-zzz> SteveA, want it to be now or in an hour?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71088 in launchpad-support-tracker "Notify ticket subscribers when the status of a linked bug change" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71088
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71090 in launchpad-support-tracker "Use guided bug workflow in +makebug" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71090
<SteveA> kiko-zzz: the time is nigh
<kiko-zzz> SteveA, oh, email?
<SteveA> rereview
<kiko-zzz> la la la
<kiko-zzz> ah tests!
<kiko-zzz> steve
<kiko-zzz> much better
<kiko-zzz> r=kiko
<SteveA> thanks kiko
* somerville32 waves at Keybuk.
<carlos> morning
<Keybuk> somerville32: hello
<somerville32> Keybuk: How are you?
<Keybuk> good
<somerville32> Scott, right?
<somerville32> I think I talked to you about your blog the other week <g>
<Keybuk> somerville32: yes, I believe you did
<Keybuk> Typo sucks
<somerville32> :] 
<lifeless> morning
<somerville32> Hi :] 
<newz2000> staging.launchpad.net is down, and I need its mirror prober
<lifeless> stub: ^
<stub> It is still updating (and has been for the last 14 hours or so, so I guess we need to revisit that data migration patch...)
<newz2000> wow, that's one heck of an update
<Znarl> newz2000 : Couldn't the mirror pages be build off production data?
<newz2000> Znarl: according to salgato, no.
<newz2000> There's a bug that allows some mirrors that dont' have the newest release to show up in the list
<kiko> stub, can we abort the update?
<kiko> might be the wisest thing at this point
<stub> kiko: There is no working staging database. Aborting won't change the situation.
<kiko> stub, hmmm, you're right
<kiko> stub, the rosetta optimizations may need to be done ahead of time :-)
<stub> I'm sorting it now - looks like we can defer the expensive bit until post rollout and do it on a live system.
<kiko> jamesh!!!
<mantiena-baltix> Hi all
<mantiena-baltix> kiko, could you help me to register new milestone in Baltix distribution (https://launchpad.net/distros/baltix )
<mantiena-baltix> previously there was a link in main menu, but few months ago this link disappers:(
<mantiena-baltix> SteveA, are you near the computer ?
<mantiena-baltix> anyone, please help me...
<LarstiQ> mantiena-baltix: relax, this is irc
<LarstiQ> interactions are on their own glacier like timescale :)
<mantiena-baltix> LarstiQ, :)
<LarstiQ> mantiena-baltix: I don't know how milestones work with distributions, I only have experience with using a product
<LarstiQ> mantiena-baltix: if no one here answers though, email the launchpad-users list
<mantiena-baltix> LarstiQ, could you tell me URL example ?
<LarstiQ> mantiena-baltix: url of the launchpad-users list?
<kiko> mantiena-baltix, I don't think it's possible to add milestones do a distro without releases.
<mantiena-baltix> kiko, previously this was possible, look at https://launchpad.net/distros/baltix/+milestone/dapper or https://launchpad.net/distros/baltix/+milestone/breezy
<kiko> yeah, it was a constraint added later.
<kiko> I need to check again with mark.
<mantiena-baltix> kiko, so, what should I do - I can't register nor Baltix releases nor milestones :(
<kiko> mantiena-baltix, it's a bug. I'll sort it out for you, let me cook up an email.
<mantiena-baltix> kiko, it's very important to register new milestone for Baltix, because I should assing new bugreports for new milestone
<kiko> yeah
<mantiena-baltix> kiko, maybe now there is some hidden URL for registering new milestone ?
<kiko> it's a db constraint issue
<kiko> I'm writing 
<mantiena-baltix> kiko, sorry, I don't understand what means "let me *cook up* an email" :(
<kiko> it means I'll start the discussion on how to fix this
<mantiena-baltix> :)
<mantiena-baltix> kiko, please CC me when you will send an email. my email is mantas@akl.lt
<mantiena-baltix> thanks for helping, I should quit now.
<stub> kiko, newz2000: staging is back up
<stub> I'll run the mirror prober now
<salgado> stub, staging is running HEAD, I guess?
<stub> yes
<kiko> stub, many thanks.
<newz2000> stub, salgado: thanks, how will I know when the mirror list is safe to use?
<kiko> thanks cprov 
<kiko> good answer
<cprov> kiko: good, thank you
<SteveA> yo ho ho
<malcc> Arr
<newz2000> salgado: do you know if the mirror list on staging is accurate? I see it's up, but I don't know if I can trust it yet
<newz2000> Anyone willing to go on the record and tell me if its safe to use the mirror list on staging yet?
<kiko> newz2000, I think it is safe, yes -- stub should have run the prober by now. 
<kiko> newz2000, does it look safe by its contents?
<salgado> newz2000, was in a meeting, sorry
<newz2000> it looks safe, but maybe fewer locations than I expected
<salgado> the contents should be the same as production
<salgado> and with the last fixes I merged, we should get more mirrors
<kiko> salgado, didn't stub do a run of the prober?
<SteveA> that so sounds like what they have at US airports nowadays
<malcc> Ah, but do they have a wand cleaning facility?
<newz2000> SteveA: don't tell me you were first in line?
<kiko> SteveA?
<kiko> hey flacoste?
<salgado> newz2000, how many mirrors did you get on staging's rss feed?
<salgado> kiko, yeah, he just did one
<kiko> cool.
<newz2000> salgado: let me check
<kiko> hey fabbione 
<fabbione> hey kiko
<kiko> wassup padrino
<salgado> newz2000, staging's feed should be the same as productions'
<newz2000> ok, there are more than I expected... aparently the rss view in ff truncates the list
<kiko> I think it does indeed
<newz2000> salgado: 43
<kiko> newz2000, it's a problem in particular for bug queries
<newz2000> which is a prime number
<kiko> because if we offer them via rss 
<kiko> it might be that some bugs get omitted
<newz2000> kiko: we need to create an xsl stylesheet to attach to the rss
<kiko> rss readers are geared more towards news and blogs...
<kiko> newz2000, so we can browse it directly?
<newz2000> yeah
<newz2000> it's already on my todo list
<newz2000> but won't happen until after the allhands meeting
<kiko> cool idea
<newz2000> yeah, I wish I'd thought of it before writing this python script I'm using now
<kiko> python ewwww
<newz2000> salgado: how often is the mirror prober running now?
<newz2000> :D
<newz2000> I like python, but the xsl would have been more broadly useful and probably taken the same amount of time to write
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71132 in launchpad "Stop probing a given mirror after we get a certain number of time outs on that mirror" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71132
<kiko> newz2000: should we really, you think? 
<kiko> I feel we should continue probing
<kiko> until somebody turns it off
<newz2000> hmmm... 
<newz2000> I don't know, I'm under the impression the mirror maintainers really want to be active, 
<newz2000> so I'd say, if it doesn't cost us anything, keep probing
<newz2000> when we do frequent updates on the download list they'll disappear and re-appear as they get overwhelmed and later recover
<kiko> same here.
<Znarl> There shouldn't be any mirrors being overwhelmed at this point in Edgy's life.
<kiko> man staging is slow.
<Znarl> The problem we're seeing now is that mirrors with good national bandwidth but poor international bandwidth fail when probed so will never get listed.  
<Znarl> ...it's a complex problem to solve.
<kiko> interesting
<kiko> stub, staging seems hosed...
<kiko> everything times out
<newz2000> good thing I got my mirror list already
<salgado> newz2000, we should have some new mirrors on staging's RSS feed
<salgado> last probe enabled 8 mirrors that were previously disabled
<newz2000> ok, I'll update the site. Thanks.
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71144 in rosetta "PO template +edit form needs unique validation for translation domain field." [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71144
<kiko> stub, ping me when you have a moment ok?
<stub> kiko: pong
<kiko> stub, want to go over yesterday's work?
<stub> Not really :-)
<kiko> what if I DEMANDED it :-)
<stub> I would grudgingly make an effort
<stub> Despite the nice comforting glow of a lunch well eaten that makes me want to take a nap
* LarstiQ giggles
<SteveA> mpt: ping
<ddaa> ping of death
<stub> So malcc is probably the busiest bee, being the drafter of a number of soyuz sprints. 
<kiko> stub, and have the sprints gone well, I wonder?
<stub> There was a PostgreSQL meetup with some community people yesterday which was good
<kiko> does he have outstanding questions?
<kiko> stub, ah, cool! did tom lane show up? 
<stub> One of them attended the rosetta db optimization sprint, pretty much confirming my ideas re: distributed db stuff but offering some useful ideas with rosetta searching
<stub> No Tom. Jeff Berkus.
<kiko> ah.
<kiko> tlane is the master
<kiko> stub, confirming your ideas: i.e. bad news? 
<stub> No - just approaches we can go with when it is worth while
<stub> Jeff Berkus is sort of the coordinator of the whole effort. Tom is primarily the implementer and maintainer of the planner.
<kiko> okay, cool. is mark's plan feasible, stub?
<stub> Its feasible, but pointless at this stage.
<kiko> okay
<stub> We might have to start worrying when we get to around 100 mill rows, so we have a year or two.
<kiko> mmkay.
<stub> (currently 10-15 mill per release, but that might increase. But then again, we might want to toss old information from unsupported releases too)
<kiko> stub, we could also.. well.. collapse this sideways somehow
<kiko> so that only stuff that changed was actually added to the DB
<kiko> that was my idea anyway.
<ddaa> kiko: why do I get this impression you'd like to reimplement zodb?
<stub> If we don't need the information for anything, sure. But I thought we needed that sort of thing in the db for suggestions etc.
<kiko> ddaa, I already wrote an indexer for it..
<kiko> stub, well, suggestions for older releases are still valid in this release (really)
<kiko> stub, so what you want to capture is the accepted submission for this release, and for older ones
<kiko> however for the majority of strings the accepted submission is the same if the string hasn't changed
<kiko> so...
<stub> I'm told the linkages need to remain because when we offer suggestions, we also state the context that the suggestion came from
<stub> If we are prepared to throw away that context, then sure.
<stub> We just need translations with a link to a message id
<kiko> we can tell the context the suggestion first came in from
<kiko> which will be captured.
<SteveA> stub: please tell mpt that I want to talk with him soon
<stub> We can discuss this further next week anyway. Yesterday we ran with Mark's suggestion and dropped another 40M row table
<kiko> good job.
<kiko> stub, how did BjornT do?
<stub> SteveA: Just did a circuit - he isn't back from Lunch yet
<stub> BjornT: ping
<stub> dunno :)
<stub> brief discussions about debian bug imports...
<kiko> ah?
<stub> Talking with martin today about cve tracking
<kiko> stub, did you guys get some time writing up, btw? how did carlos/danilo progress on the language teams thing?
<stub> language teams got superceeded I believe by another spec
<stub> People have been writing up their stuff
<kiko> good job
<BjornT> kiko: basically simon doesn't want any debian bug imports; it's more important to get people to link to the external bugs instead.
<stub> And keeping Launchpad up todate in general
<kiko> BjornT, ai ai
<kiko> BjornT, any chat on how to display foreign bug comments?
<stub> I thought we were only making the support tracker handle foreign enquiries?
<stub> (at least on the current roadmap)
<BjornT> kiko: no, not yet. i'll see if mpt has some time today to discuss it.
<kiko> BjornT, it would be ideal
<kiko> stub, foreign as in "from other bugtrackers", sorry
<ddaa> up to date...
<kiko> BjornT, cool. how did you think your chats went? I liked to see "closing bugs from changelogs there!"
<ddaa> I'm having some fun gardening some very old svn import requests...
<ddaa> like one requested an import from svn.progeny.com...
<somerville32> Hi
<stub> closing bugs from changelogs was discussed in Singapore
<BjornT> kiko: ah, right, we did discuss "closing bugs from changelogs" yesterday!
<somerville32> I have more questions :D
<kiko> I saw the writeup today
<stub> So anyone looking at that should catch up with tims Launchpad bazaar integration stuff (hopefully specced)
<somerville32> How does specification roles work when you assign a group to them?
<BjornT> kiko: it will be quite simple to do, the hard thing is to find a place in soyus to plug in to
<kiko> BjornT, that part of soyuz is a quagmire.
<kiko> BjornT, the CVE handling using the email interface is genius
<ddaa> stub: there was no significant progress that I'm aware of
<ddaa> on bug-branches integration
<ddaa> there was some good discussion some time ago with jamesh about closing bugs from bzr revision properties
<LarstiQ> bzr revision properties?
<ddaa> "closing bugs from changelog" is risky because we do not know that the changelog is talking of Launchpad...
<ddaa> LarstiQ: like the branch nick
<LarstiQ> would this tie into 'bzr commit --lp-closes 12345'?
<ddaa> something like this
<LarstiQ> ddaa: right
<ddaa> I'm not sure about the specific UI poolie is championing right now
<ddaa> https://launchpad.canonical.com/AutomaticBugBranchLinks
* LarstiQ fails authorization
<BjornT> kiko: we discussed the bug reporting tool as well. no changes were required to the existing lp spec, though.
<kiko> BjornT, did stub and you find an agreement on the blob storage thing?
<ddaa> LarstiQ: sorry about that, It's a url for BjornT, stub and kiko
<LarstiQ> aww
<kiko> LarstiQ, blame SteveA for that
* kiko runs
<LarstiQ> I'm afraid I'm rather used to this happening by now.
<stub> kiko: blob storage is under control. mdz seemed happy to let me do it my way. I just have to labotimize mark's patch.
<kiko> okay, nifty
<stub> c/timize/tomize/
<kiko> as long as it gets done; I think mark's aggravation there is that you said "that's crap" and then didn't do the actual lobotomy :-)
<stub> Mark might not be happy though, so I must remember to use a misleading commit message ;)
<ddaa> one important property of this design is that the branch-scanner remains idempotent, there are no dependency on the branch scanner seeing the data appear in a specific sequence.
<kiko> he was okay with it as long as it got done.. when it didn't I got the sharp end of the stick
<stub> Nobody has given me a timeframe yet, so it keeps getting bumped for more urgent tasks
<kiko> I know you were busy etc etc
<kiko> yeah, well, it's "very high", not "critical"
<kiko> but it should show up for early feisty
<stub> it is also useless until there is a client that actually uses it
<kiko> so that people can get the client into feisty soon
<kiko> agreed
<kiko> early feisty is optimal for that
<SteveA> well... 
<stub> ok.
<SteveA> the writers of a client would say
<SteveA> "this is useless until there's a server that actually uses it"
<kiko> greed
<stub> Sure. But I don't know a) who is working on the client and b) when they plan to do it
<kiko> stub, I'm surprised you haven't talked about /that/ with mdz, tbh
<kiko> he definitely can tell you and help you sort that out
<stub> I will - just thinking about it now
<kiko> cool
<stub> ie. who to talk to after landing marks patch to confirm it actually does what they need.
<kiko> just funny you'd have chatted with him on the topic and not cover the client side. maybe mdz is out in mars. :)
<stub> Well... implementing a service is always much easier if there are no users of the system.
<kiko> heh
<stub> (If software crashes the server and there is no client, does the sysadmin make a sound?)
<kiko> esse stub
<kiko> BjornT, I'm approving InitialUbuntuCVETracking ok?
<kiko> it's got what I think is a good summary for the initial step
<BjornT> kiko: well, let's wait a bit. i haven't gotten pitti to take a final look at it yet
<stub> Still no mdz - might be in a private meeting
<kiko> k
<SteveA> elmo: ping
<SteveA> stub: you might need to ask for a more advanced bzr on the app servers
<SteveA> stub: seems that bzr version-info is recent
<SteveA> it's not on the bzr on brilliant, for example, so I've had to arse around with the makefile there
<guerby> hi, I'm unable to find a link with a list of bugs I reported on launchpad, any idea?
<kiko> guerby, yes. visited /people/guerby/+reportedbugs
<guerby> https://launchpad.net/people/guerby/+reportedbugs => 404 not found
<kiko> grumble grumble
<kiko> what's your launchpad username?
<guerby> kiko, https://launchpad.net/people/laurent-guerby/+reportedbugs
<guerby> got it
<kiko> there you go
<guerby> You have to click on assigned then you have a link to reported
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> it is bong
<guerby> I think it would be better to have reported (or both) on the default user page => more users than dev :)
<kiko> but soon it will be bugs.launchpad.net/people/laurent-guerby
<stub> asuka seems fine, and is running 0.11
<kiko> and it will make more sense
<SteveA> stub: brilliant is on 0.10
<stub> gangotri is out of date
<stub> (0.8!)
<guerby> kiko, as long as it is linked :) is there a place in malone to record suggestion? how to improve suggests IRC or email (but that seems low-tech :)
<kiko> guerby, sure -- /products/malone/+filebug 
<guerby> kiko, ok thanks, will do!
<kiko> enjoy 
<guerby> kiko, thanks for the help
<stub> SteveA: We should be able to use the bzr in the launchpad tree, shouldn't we?
<kiko> stub, so the patch applied to staging successfully?
<kiko> the rosetta patch I mean
<stub> The updated one that might not have landed yet, yes.
<SteveA> stub: yes, but I wouldn't depend on it
<kiko> stub, oh. :)
* ddaa -> bed
<kiko> carlos, ping?
<SteveA> stub: any sign of mpt yet?
<stub> no
<malcc> I passed mpt on my way up, he was chatting with someone in the lobby
<kiko> hey cprov-afk 
<kiko> or malcc 
<malcc> Mind you that was 45 minutes ago
<malcc> Hey kiko
<kiko> malcc, can you update the summary/rationale for NMAF so that it's clear that we are doing this now for PPAs, and have the existing content there modified slightly to say that these are benefits of using this implementation instead of AF for Ubuntu?
<kiko> https://launchpad.canonical.com/NoMoreAptFtparchive
<kiko> malcc, then I can approve it
<malcc> Sure
<kiko> thanks! ping me when done
<carlos> kiko: pong
<kiko> carlos, hey there
<kiko> carlos, are you having another TranslationLicensing meeting?
<carlos> kiko: hi
<carlos> no, it's a Draft session
<kiko> carlos, there's stuff there that still needs Mako?
<carlos> kiko: yes, he needs to answer one question
<kiko> okay
<carlos> and he's still thinking on it
<carlos> it's already noted on the wiki
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71155 in malone "User page should have a link to reportedbugs" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71155
<kiko> carlos, I saw, cool. ping me when you have text so I can look over it
<carlos> at least he was thinking on it yesterday...
<carlos> kiko: the wiki already has text
<kiko> carlos, okay, stay on it, as you only have him tomorrow
<carlos> kiko: also, danilo was handling it
<kiko> carlos, I expect you will edit it further, yes?
<kiko> carlos, yeah, but danilo's offline
<carlos> he's in the bathroom ;-)
<kiko> he should use loobuntu
<carlos> :-P
<kiko> the official distro of the toilet-empowered users
<carlos> no, we prefer google's ones, they clean your ass with water! :-P
<kiko> carlos, ok, tell him to ping me when he has text there
<carlos> kiko: ok
<kiko> TMI
<kiko> malcc, please also add the Launchpad Entry for it when you do :-)
<kiko> malcc, another thing. https://launchpad.canonical.com/SoyuzBuilddImprovements says "Fix PAS bug". What PAS bug?
<kiko> cool idea for the build whiteboard, malcc 
<malcc> kiko: Yes, that could do with some context. And what about the whiteboarD?
<kiko> the whiteboard is an awesome idea.
<kiko> the diagnostics thing.
<malcc> Ah that, that's infinity's idea that is
<kiko> malcc, I already suggested filing bugs for the easy bits, right? (can't remember so just checking)
<malcc> kiko: Yes you did. That's the plan, once the specs are finalised
<kiko> malcc, okay, cool, I'm an old man
<malcc> kiko: It'll give me something routine to do tomorrow afternoon when my brain is dead
<kiko> malcc, the PAS thing.. is it for real?
<malcc> kiko: It's a known bug, we talked about it before, let me find it
<kiko> oh?
<kiko> the bugs reported by kamion were actually not real bugs in PAS
<kiko> but instead issues related to old builds being present and retried
<kiko> maybe it's something else tho
<kiko> BjornT, did you manage to get any statuses out of Mark for BugWorkFlow?
<malcc> https://features.launchpad.net/products/soyuz/+bug/65712
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 65712 in soyuz "Queuebuilder does the wrong thing when PAS changes" [High,In progress]  
<kiko> BjornT, or sfllaw 
<kiko> malcc, I think cprov-afk is already doing half of the "kill getBuildByArch" part, did you know?
<kiko> malcc, but cool, this isn't actually a PAS issue, but more of a when-PAS-changes issue.
<BjornT> kiko: no, didn't talk to mark about it. i and mpt specced out some new statuses that sfllaw approved of, though.
<malcc> kiko: I didn't mean to cast aspertions on your PAS implementation, just describe the bug briefly ;)
<kiko> BjornT, grab mark to get him to give you his notes, please!
<sfllaw> BjornT: We're specing it out now.
<sfllaw> But obby has died.
<kiko> malcc, no seriously, PAS may have bugs, but if so I can fix them because the code is easy to me
<kiko> malcc, the tests are easy to add
<kiko> however, I'm just talking about the mechanical PAS decisions
<kiko> one-shot
<kiko> sfllaw, then use gobby. the lack of the g causes random flakiness
<kiko> malcc, cprov: did you guys check out flacoste's suggestion? to use the virtualization thingy option 2?
<cprov> malcc: thanks for the comments in NoMoreAptFtparchive.
<malcc> kiko: Yup, I raised it, but it's not sufficiently secure
<kiko> bogus
<malcc> kiko: This is a pretty extreme case security-wise, we're giving code which may be a deliberate attack root-level access
<malcc> kiko: It looks like the only answer is full virtualisation
<kiko> IC
<kiko> I thought root on the buildds was not a big deal
<cprov> kiko: it's really up to the distro guys, I've read Vserver stuff, found it hard to setup, but it's just my oppinion
<kiko> I see
#launchpad 2006-11-10
<malcc> kiko: The attack vector is, my build compromises the environment used for the next build, so the next build (for somebody else's PPA) is compromised and contains my evil code
<kiko> malcc, you mean the chroot? isn't that transfered to the box? or something else?
<kiko> or do you mean breaking out of the chroot is possible?
<malcc> Yes, with root access you can break the chroot
<kiko> mmm
<kiko> IC
<malcc> Possibly even without root access. I didn't stop to get all the details, I'm not a security expert, I just know enough to listen when they tell me what they need
<SteveA> breaking out of a chroot when you're not root involves getting to be root first
<SteveA> but, seeing as local root exploits are patched less quickly than for example remote ones
<SteveA> it's still something to keep in mind
<kiko> SteveA, this is a buildd..
<kiko> so local root is something malicious code doesn't have to do rocket science to get
<kiko> BjornT, stub, what's the LP spec for the bug reporting tool, LP side?
<kiko> carlos, can you tell me what you think of this latest round of discussions on language teams?
<SteveA> stub: ping
<BjornT> kiko: pitti has had a look at initial-cve-tracking now, so you can approve it
<SteveA> it's 12.30am here.  I want to talk with mpt before I go to sleep.
<SteveA> anyone at UDS able to help me with this?
<kiko> BjornT, rock on.
<BjornT> kiko: SupportingBugReportingTool
<SteveA> also, stub, I'd like to check how beta.lp.net is going
<carlos> kiko: I only was at https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/unifying-loco-resources-with-launchpad
<carlos> kiko: the others were Drafting sessions
<kiko> carlos, hmmm. wasn't there a specific language teams discussion?
<carlos> stuart already told you that it was deprecated
<jordi> carlos: I can't find the sql statement neneded to change the owner of a translation group
<srf21c> Howdy.  Was wondering if it's possible to edit your own comments on the ubuntu launchpad site?
<jordi> carlos: can you tell me or mail stub directly with the necessary to make silva translators owned by "thisfred"?
<carlos> and I think I said here also that mdz said that they will handle it outside launchpad, and once they have the set of data that they need they will see what could be implemented in launchpad....
<srf21c> would like to clarify a post of mine.
<carlos> jordi: sure
<carlos> jordi: please, send me an email so I don't forget it...
<kiko> carlos, I am confused. we have a real issue with language teams today, which is raging on rosetta-users and launchpad-users, and you tell me "the spec is deprecated"?
<stub> SteveA: I think Znarl was doing the mirroring I needed earlier today, but the rt job has not yet been closed.
<carlos> kiko: first
<jordi> carlos: sure
<BjornT> SteveA: i can't find mpt anywhere
<malcc> SteveA: I just gave mpt a physical ping
<malcc> Hmm, that didn't quite come out how it sounded in my head
<carlos> we don't have such spec but an informal meeting with one of the Esperanto guys
<SteveA> malcc: thanks
<carlos> second
<SteveA> stub: ok.  I'm going to add a beta testers team to production now
<malcc> At least I think that was mpt, all the nametag swapping is getting out of hand
<SteveA> and also, I'll shortly be landing all the new vhosts
<carlos> kiko: as far as I know, the people that are participating on the mailing list about this issue aren't here
<carlos> so
<stub> Sure
<carlos> unless you want that I have a meeting with myself....
<SteveA> so please check that we're fine with starting to use these
<carlos> is a bit difficult to reach something
<carlos> kiko: we have already a set of improvements to finish/implement
<carlos> from what we talked with the Tim by email
<carlos> and also, I still have some pending email from that thread, which I cannot handle due other tasks at UDS...
<kiko> carlos, mmkay. I'm sure we could discuss these things better, though. I guess I'll just call a redux for the allhands.
<mpt> SteveA, pong
<carlos> kiko: sure, but I don't think we should define a bunch of changes for it now and the take a lot of time to implement them and see how they went
<carlos> kiko: I think we should finish the mechanisms that we already defined or agreed on implement
<kiko> carlos, the "take a lot of time to implement" think is something we need to address regardless.
<SteveA> hi mpt 
<carlos> and get feedback on those and keep defining new ones if we see are needed
<carlos> kiko: sure
<kiko> anyway
<kiko> ok.
<carlos> kiko: but handling more than three, four things at the same time doesn't help a lot there
<carlos> or saying it more clear... we have limited resources...
<carlos> said that, with danilo on board, we are now handling more things and it's starting to go faster...
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71159 in launchpad "No way to not schedule a spec that's in Drafting state" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71159
<kiko> malcc, I'm interested in Xen for a moment. does this mean no powerpc PPAs?
<malcc> kiko: Yes
<kiko> hmmm.
<kiko> k
<kiko> BjornT, stub, what's the LP spec for the bug reporting tool, LP side?
<kiko> BjornT, found it: https://features.launchpad.net/products/malone/+spec/support-bug-reporting-tool
<kiko> BjornT, I'm going to reassign to stub
<kiko> BjornT, he can bounce it back to you
<stub> ta
<kiko> just so we know what it's about
<BjornT> ok
<kiko> flacoste, ping again
<kiko> salgado, ping?
<kiko> salgado, https://launchpad.canonical.com/SupportingBugReportingTool has some stuff on token redirects. can you check that it is feasible?
<kiko> basically preserving GET parameters.
<SteveA> preserving query strings in tokens?
<BjornT> kiko: bug 70807
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 70807 in launchpad "Properly redirect people when creating new accounts" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/70807
<kiko> BjornT, mmmm.
<SteveA> kiko: I'm not keen on preserving arbitrary query parameters
<SteveA> I'd suggest an alternative:
<SteveA>  ...gedit/+filebug?info=1234 changes to ...gedit/+filebug/info=1234 or just ...gedit/+filebug/1234
<kiko> SteveA, really? hidden issue?
<SteveA> what are you asking?
<kiko> why you are not keen on it, SteveA 
<SteveA> a few reasons
<SteveA>  - I've seen complexity in preserving GET query params in our login forms already
<SteveA>  - it makes forms more complicated, because they need to deal with GET vs POST data in the same namespace
<SteveA>  - it may open XSS vectors we haven't consider
<SteveA> if all we need to do is preserve that one piece of information, I'd say do it as part of the URL
<kiko> SteveA, hmmm. if we allowed traversal on +filebug we could avoid this completely
<kiko> I guess
<kiko> +filebug/blob/12331
<SteveA> it's easy enough to make a page deal with stuff that goes after it
<SteveA> well, I know the right magic anyway
<kiko> I just want salgado not be blocked on this when he comes to it
<kiko> mmm
<kiko> I don't know how to comment on specs
<lifeless> kiko-fud: you cant comment on specs in lp, need to do it in the wiki
<SteveA> stub: I updated LaunchpadProductionStatus with some details about the vhosting changes.  There's an RT request needed to avoid breaking links when this gets rolled out.
<carlos> kiko-fud: around?
<lifeless> SteveA: is your pqm stuff working ?
<lifeless> stub: the oops count doubled yesterday, did we do a rollout or change anything ?
<stub> That would be the rollout stuffup I emailed launchpad mailing list about
<stub> Prob lots of timeouts
<lifeless> okies
<BHSPitMonkey> hi all
<BHSPitMonkey> is there any resource for getting a GPG key set up? I really am not sure of the specifics, here.
<mdke> BHSPitMonkey: yeah, hang on a tic
<mdke> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto
<kiko> hey SteveA 
<jamesh> kiko: btw, there is a fmt:break-long-words formatter in rocketfuel now
<kiko> jamesh, you think I didn't notice? many many thanks
<flacoste> kiko: pong
<flacoste> latency sucks
<kiko> flacoste, mmm, not sure I remember anymore what I wanted to talk to you about.
<kiko> maybe I emailed you
<flacoste> ok, ping back if you remember
<kiko> ok
<kiko> hey malcc!
<malcc> Morning
<kiko> how's it hanging there
<malcc> I'm pretty pleased it's friday.
<malcc> Six 9am - 6:30pm days in a row is a lot
<malcc> zzz
<kiko> mpt, what do you think of https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/71233
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71233 in launchpad "Merge various distribution and product role edit pages into a +roles page." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<kiko> malcc, or you, what dya think?
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71233 in launchpad "Merge various distribution and product role edit pages into a +roles page." [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71233
<malcc> kiko: Looks sane from here, but I've managed so far not to learn much about permissions and roles in launchpad
<lifeless> morning
<kiko> yawning
<mpt> kiko, that's what I meant when I said last week that Launchpad has far too many pages :-)
<mpt> I agree with that bug
<mpt> Actually I reported one earlier about having one page for all your Malone customizations
<mpt> one for your Rosetta customizations
<mpt> ... one for your Rosetta customizations
<mpt> etc
<kiko> mpt, I don't think a single +roles page is bad.. people have a hard time finding action items that are tied to facets that are not the overview facet
<kiko> and I don't think it's just a function of having bad navigation
<kiko> SteveA, ping
<SteveA> kiko: hi
<kiko> hi there
<kiko> how is the weather
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> so, the 1.0 ui
<kiko> yes
<kiko> the fabled 1.0 UI
<SteveA> mark is displeased with the 1.0 beta ui
<SteveA> as it stands currently implemented
<kiko> or so we hear
<SteveA> but this is really between mark, usman and mpt
<SteveA> in my opinion
<SteveA> we're about to roll out the app domains
<SteveA> mpt is blocking me on the menus because he reverted what I had
<SteveA> and mark used a lot of mpt's implementation time in doing mockups for more pages
<kiko> immmm
<kiko> -?
<kiko> ->
<SteveA> so, I think we need more mpt time to get this done
<kiko> *** -?
<SteveA> as I'm not really competent to actually do ui implementation
<SteveA> but, mpt has limited time, and there's still a lot of actual text to be updated in template
<SteveA> although, getting more help text will help too... and that's been landing recently
<kiko> hey salgado 
<kiko> 38 is pretty low in the CIDR scheme
<salgado> hi kiko
<kiko> I don't think I've ever been below the 70s
<kiko> BjornT, ping
<kiko> BjornT, ping
<BjornT> kiko: pong
<kiko> BjornT, please make sure you talk to mark to get his status notes today, okay? don't let that drop or I am toast 
<BjornT> kiko: yeah, i'll make sure to do that today.
<flacoste> kiko: ping
* ddaa -> dinner
<flacoste> salgado: ping
<salgado> hi flacoste 
<flacoste> hi salgado, how's UDS?
<salgado> flacoste, it's fine... how are things on your side?
<flacoste> fine, ready to leave for SF tomorrow, and I hope to put the last bits of localized-requests up for review today
<flacoste> salgado: and I wanted to discuss the search feature with you
<flacoste> I find that the 'English/Preferred Languages/Any Language" radio choices takes too much screen estate
<salgado> yeah, that is true
<flacoste> i thought about an alternative: by default always display requests in English and in the user's preferred language
<flacoste> and put a small checkbox called 'All Languages'
<flacoste> Also, put a notice stating which languages are displayed with link to the 'Preferred Languages' page to choose other
<flacoste> I was also thinking of displaying that notice if not all languages were displayed
<flacoste> for example, if there are only tickets in English, don't display the notice
<flacoste> another possibility: when there are tickets in many languages: display one checkbox for each available (horizontally like for status) with default selection to 'English' + preferred languages
<flacoste> what do you think of these salgado?
<flacoste> (kiko: do you have an opinion on the above?)
<salgado> flacoste, so, with the first suggestion the notice would be displayed by default and would be removed if the 'All Languages' checkbox was checked?
<flacoste> salgado: the notice would be remove if the 'All Languages' checkbox is checked or if we effectively display all languages (because there are only tickets in English or the user's preferred languages)
<kiko> im on the phone help
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71244 in blueprint "scheduling of sessions should be independent of it's state" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71244
<flacoste> the problem with the alternative (one checkbox by language present in the TicketTarget) is that it's not scalable as the number of languages grow
<flacoste> but it's perfect when the number is small
<flacoste> maybe we could scale automatically from 'no widget' when only English is used, checkbox for every available languages on the target when that number is small (<=5) and then only an 'All Languages' widget when they're many and display only 'English' + preferred languages
<salgado> I'm afraid that the second alternative wouldn't scale even for 3 languages
<flacoste> we have 6 statuses and they display fine
<salgado> because that mean's we'd have "English + preferred languages", "Language with long name", "Another language", "Even other language"
<flacoste> Languages: [X]  English [ ]  French [X]  Portuguese (Brazil) [ ]  Spanish
<salgado> yeah, but we have control on the length of the statuses
<flacoste> ok, then only nothing (only English used) or 'All Languages' then
<salgado> we don't have that many languages with long names
<salgado> but I prefer the first alternative
<flacoste> what I like with the second alternative, is that the user gets instant feedback on what he can select, no need for notice, etc.
<salgado> yeah, that's indeed a good thing, but if there are two or three other languages he'd have to mark three checkboxes, and I think the most common case will be somebody wanting to see tickets in all languages
<flacoste> right
<salgado> other than that I think people will only want to see the tickets in one of their preferred languages
<flacoste> that makes sense
<flacoste> i'll go with an 'All Languages' checkbox then
<salgado> flacoste, I think that is fine... and thanks for taking the time to sort this out, which is something I noticed too, but didn't have time to discuss/fix
<flacoste> no problem :-)
<flacoste> salgado: did you have some support tracker related discussion at UDS?
<flacoste> salgado: what do you think of a notice like 'Only support requests in English, Portuguese Brazil are displayed. To see requests in other languages either click the "All Languages" checkbox or _change_ your preferred languages.'?
<flacoste> Of course, that notice would only be displayed when there are requests in another language.
<salgado> yeah, I think it's fine
<salgado> maybe too long?
<salgado> mpt may be able to get something simpler for us, but since this is not going to be displayed always, I don't think it's a big deal
<flacoste> salgado: thanks for the discussion
* flacoste will implement that after lunch
<kiko> flacoste-lunch, for the record, I think salgado's okay with the all languages thing -- we can wait for users to complain first before trying to address anything else
<kiko> hey carlos 
<kiko> carlos, I added more comments to the langpack ui spec. 
<kiko> carlos, your changes wrt the UI look okay
<kiko> I have more questions though.
<kiko> salgado, can you /MAKE SURE/ mpt pings me in 2h?
<kiko> salgado, I have something that is super urgent
<kiko> and he needs to talk to me about it
<carlos> kiko: hi
<carlos> I pinged you yesterday to answer your questions
<carlos> but anyway, I will leave teh answers in the document
<carlos> in the new section you added
<carlos> kiko: thanks for your input
<salgado> kiko, I'll do that
<carlos> matsubara: hi, sorry, I had to restart the computer and lose what you messaged to me
<mhb> hello
<kiko> carlos, you're welcome
<kiko> let me eat and bbiab.
<mhb> is a launchpad logo in 128x128 somewhere on the net ?
<jordi> lifeless: wow that Finnish guy is impatient
<jordi> carlos: any progress with Silva translators?
<mpt> kiko-fud, pong
<stub> SteveA: Where does the publication machinery live now? I need to hook in and maintain counters of requests served, number of exceptions raised etc.
<SteveA> it's all in webapp
<SteveA> webapp.publication webapp.publisher
<SteveA> we know the number of exceptions raised from the oops reports
<SteveA> and we know the number of requests served from the weblogs
<SteveA> so why do you need this?
<stub> Monitoring
<stub> So hook into rootobject.publishTraverse or something?
<SteveA> endrequest event?
<stub> I was thinking of hooking into the stuff that calls the traversal code, but it looks like we nolonger customize that
<stub> Hmm... 
<stub> That won't tell us if an exception has been raised etc.
<SteveA> so, you want to know
<SteveA> - request start
<SteveA>  - request ended
<SteveA>  - reason request ended:
<SteveA>     timeout, exception (what kind), soft timeout
<stub> No - I need to maintain a counter incremented when a request is served, a request served via http, a request served via xmlrpc and counters when various exceptions are raised.
<stub> (although we might want timing information later...)
<SteveA> ok
<SteveA> for request being served via whatever, I'd say hook into the
<SteveA> VirtualHostRequestPublication.__call__
<SteveA> that gives you a place that is used for every request and clear information as to which kind of vhost is used
<stub> That is our replacement for ZopePublication?
<SteveA> no
<SteveA> that's a factory for an appopriate publication and request type for a particular request
<SteveA> it is called for every incoming request
<SteveA> so you can keep your count separate from what particular publications are used
<stub> That doesn't seem to exist
<SteveA> when did you last merge from RF?
<stub> Yesterday
<SteveA> you got r4253?
<stub> Nope
<SteveA> you could also hook into webapp/publication.py's LaunchpadBrowserPublication
<SteveA> you have beforeTraversal(self, request)
<salgado> no vai caber tudo
<SteveA> which is where we write out the thread-xxxx.request files
<salgado> oops
<SteveA> and handleException and endRequest
<SteveA> I think xmlrpc uses that publication too
<glatzor> hi carlos
<carlos> glatzor: hi
<glatzor> carlos: I would like to use Rosetta to translate the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter.
<carlos> ok
<carlos> glatzor: do you have already a .pot file for it'
<carlos> ?
<glatzor> carlos: So I created a product. Is there a way to automatically upload the po files using a script?
<carlos> or do you need help on it?
<glatzor> carlos: I use txt2po :)
<glatzor> carlos: Can I push updated po files using a script? Or can they be extracted from a bzr repo?
<carlos> glatzor: you can use a script
<carlos> glatzor: using curl
<carlos> glatzor: talk with mvo
<glatzor> thanks
<carlos> he developed some scripts to do it
<glatzor> carlos: by the way have you already looked at the ubuntu-docs in edgy?
<glatzor> they cannot be translated
<carlos> glatzor: no, sorry. I will do it right now before I get busy at UDS...
<glatzor> carlos: Thanks. I would like to complete it before the next language pack role out
<glatzor> carlos: The po file import/export works again?
<carlos> glatzor: hmmm, well, that's not going to work...
<carlos> ubuntu-docs are not handled as part of language packs....
<carlos> glatzor: only exports, imports are still closed
<glatzor> carlos: you could do this manually? I would like to reuse the translations of the edgy manuals for dapper
<glatzor> carlos: so there is no other upstream than us
<carlos> doing what?
<carlos> upload .po files into Rosetta?
<kiko-fud> mpt, ping
* ddaa is back
<kiko> mpt, ping
<mpt> kiko, pong
<kiko> look at that, mpt
<kiko> mpt, can you ring me?
<kiko> or do you have a US number I can reach?
<mpt> I'm roaming, my mobile number on /Offices works
<kiko> yeah but that's uncallable for me
<carlos> voip?
<kiko> pffft 
<kiko> please. something reliable.
<carlos> I use it every day here to call home....
<carlos> it's quite reliable
<flacoste> kiko: is it possible to do a SELECT DISTINCT using SQLObject?
<flacoste> or should I use a subselect for that?
<flacoste> like .select("id IN (SELECT DISTINCT...)")
<kiko> flacoste, yes. both distinct and distinct on. but you need to think about it a bit.
<kiko> so if it's just select distinct, just pass distinct=True to your select
<kiko> if you want DISTINCT ON then you need to subselect yes.
<flacoste> what is DISTINCT ON?
<flacoste> i want to retrieve the languages used in a given tickettarget
<kiko> so Language.select("ticketarget.language=Language.id", distinct=True) ?
<kiko> distinct on means you distinct on certain attributes, not the entire result set.
<flacoste> hmm, since this joins tickettarget, it won't work?
<salgado> flacoste, in this case you actually need a "select distinct language from tickettarget where ...", no?
<kiko> flacoste, why won't it work?
<kiko> salgado, what are you talking about?
<kiko> of course it will work.
<kiko> Language.select("ticketarget.language=Language.id", distinct=True, clauseTables="TicketTarget") ?
<kiko> that is how you do it
<flacoste> ok, Language will only select the language's field?
<kiko> o/` you play the guitar on the mtv o/`
<kiko> fantastique
<matsubara-afk> dire straits, kiko?
<matsubara-afk> anyway, bbiab
<kiko> I am indeed in dire straits
<flacoste> kiko: you were right, it works fine :-)
<kiko> good.
<mpt> kiko, no mail from you yet
<kiko> mpt, hold on, your turn now
<mpt> ok :-)
<mhb> hi ... is there a large launchpad logo image on the web?
<mpt> mhb, not at the moment
<kiko> mhb, humm, mpt might know, and if not, maybe hmm matt nuzum
<mpt> Why do you ask?
<mhb> I wanted to point at a launchpad page with an icon
<carlos> kiko: We have an svg image in our development tree
<kiko> ah, true!
<kiko> mhb, you can look at the svg image
<kiko> one sec for a url
<kiko> oh bummer
<kiko> no public svg
* kiko attempts to dcc to mhb 
<mhb> please try again
<kiko> sending again
<mhb> (0%) - 0.00kB/s - ETA (stalled) - launchpad.svg
<kiko> bummer man
<kiko> mhb, email?
<mhb> can you send it to my email? necteno@gmail.com
<mhb> oh, cool
<kiko> mhb, sent.
<mhb> thanks
<mhb> kiko: 16:06 < kiko> I never forget. laters! << remember when you forgot about my suggestion to make a Rosetta plugin for a LoCo dictionary? :o)
<kiko> I have no idea what you are talking about :-P
<mhb> kiko: seems your claim that you never forget was overrated at least :o) 12th of August was a while ago, I know
<kiko> I never forget, really
<kiko> I honestly believe that
<mhb> kiko: well you forgot to send me an email after that discussion, and you probably forgot the whole dicussion by now :o)
<kiko> oh
<kiko> I actually remember now
<BenC> hello launchpaders!
<kiko> I was going to send you some stuff on ajax, mhb 
<kiko> I still mean to.. it's on my todo notepad
<kiko> hey BenC 
<BenC> I have a problem where I've created a poll, but I set the start date to 12am this morning, now I can't add options :)
<kiko> BenC, hmm, that's no good. what's the URL?
<BenC> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-kernel-team/+poll/feisty-kernel-version
<BenC> can't edit it or anything
<kiko> lemme look.
<matsubara> BenC: bug 28670
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28670 in launchpad "Shouldn't be able to create a poll with zero options" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28670
<kiko> BenC, you need to get salgado and stub to fix that for you.
<kiko> matsubara, related but perhaps different issue here 
<salgado> yeah, the only way to fix it is with manual DB intervention
<salgado> IOW, we need stub
<mhb> carlos: how come some of you Rosetta devs always claims "the search will be implemented very soon" and the translators believe that? .o) You said that to me at the start of Edgy, IIRC :o)
<matsubara> kiko:  read the bug description. :)
<kiko> get stub the stud
<kiko> matsubara, no, fix the summary <wink>
<BenC> basically you shouldn't be allowed to create a poll with a start in the past
<BenC> and if a poll has no options, it should not start
<kiko> right
<kiko> both right
<kiko> two bugs
<mhb> carlos: now it's danilo mentioning it on the translators mailing list that it's going to take some time
<kiko> mhb, well, that's because it's actually HARD :-)
<mhb> kiko: and you are working on it for um ... how many years? :o)
<kiko> mhb, we never managed to start on it -- the priority list is hard to beat
<kiko> right now we're just firefighting..
<mhb> hm, time to dig out the logs again
<mhb> 14:37 < kiko> mhb, it's one of the earliest planned features, so yes, it will happen. << remember saying that in August?
<kiko> if it's just to say we're late then it's not really necessary...
<kiko> it will happen, but not today. have patience.
<mhb> it's not just me who says that
<kiko> <kiko> if it's just to say we're late then it's not really necessary...
<kiko> we know we're late. thanks.
<mhb> so you're saying you don't care? nice.
<kiko> salgado, can you help BenC get a hold of stub? I'd love to see the polls used more...
<matsubara> kiko, BenC: bugs 71274, 28670
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71274 in launchpad "If a poll has no options, it should not start" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71274
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 28670 in launchpad "Shouldn't be able to create a poll with a date in the past" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28670
<kiko> yeah.
<BenC> matsurba: thanks
<kiko> that reads perfect matsubara -- good job
<salgado> kiko, he's having lunch right now and his laptop is right beside me
<matsubara> and I think we could use a poll tag in the future
<kiko> salgado, fun!
<LarstiQ> mhb: I don't think kiko is saying that, rather everyone is swamped.
<kiko> matsubara, approved
<mhb> I'll describe it in a different way: what should we (the translators) do to make Canonical actually work on that?
<salgado> kiko, it's locked, unfortunately. :-(
<kiko> salgado, that's no good. have a livecd handy?
<salgado> we have plenty
<mhb> we're doing quite a lot of work in Ubuntu. I know you do a lot of work too, but I think when there is something almost every single LoCo team member wants, how come it's not one of the #1 problems?
<kiko> mhb, right now.. keep on requesting the feature and reminding us of it. the main issue with it is sorting out the rosetta performance problems which atm are the #1 problem.
<kiko> once that's improved, and once the language teams debacle is sorted out, and once rosetta and firefox work well, and once translation reviewing is landed, we're going to start on it.
<kiko> I'm not out of touch with the requirements
<kiko> but a lot of different users have different #1 problems and balancing them out is not easy.
<mhb> language teams debacle?
<kiko> salgado, great answer to mark, btw
<kiko> mhb, yeah, the threads going on in rosetta-users
<kiko> BjornT, don't forget to chat to mark about the statuses.
<mhb> kiko: you don't have no deadlines for features?
<kiko> heh
<kiko> mhb, we do, but they slip :)
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71274 in launchpad "If a poll has no options, it should not start" [Low,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71274
<mhb> kiko: hm, the translators simply cannot slip, the packages get made and that's it, but you can slip all the way you want :o)
<kiko> hey carlos 
<mhb> well I hope you will at least set the deadline for this feature soon ... otherwise I'll be really disappointed ... well, see you soon
<steveire> Hey. Can rosetta be searched?
<carlos> steveire: hi
<carlos> not yet
<carlos> danilos will start soon on that feature
<steveire> Ok. Does google cache it? Maybe I can use that.
<kiko> hmmm, good question
<kiko> it should
<carlos> don't think so, you need to be logged in to reach the translation form
<carlos> and last time I checked, google didn't have an account 
<kiko> hmmm
<kiko> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<kiko> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<kiko> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<kiko> carlos, I have an idea.
* carlos is scared of kiko's ideas....
<kiko> what if we changed the +translate page to not require login
<ddaa> kiko: you're into Buddhic meditation now?
<kiko> and just display the messages
<kiko> no textareas or inputs
<kiko> and then text saying "LOG IN TO TRANSLATE GOD DAMN IT"
<steveire> I tried import site:launchpad.net inurl:de for german 'import'. One result, and not what I wanted.
<carlos> kiko: it would be possible once TranslationReview lands
<kiko> steveire, yeah
<kiko> carlos, let's do that! yes!
<kiko> that will rock!
<carlos> because we only use textareas for new translations
<ddaa> "You can see me, but you cannot touch me!"
<kiko> google can do the searching for us for now!
<kiko> that would be sweet
<kiko> steveire, you are a genius!!!
<carlos> kiko: well... I hope searching is finished quite soon
<kiko> carlos, can you file a bug on that?
<carlos> but anyway it's something good to have anyway
<carlos> sure
<kiko> "Allow non-autenticated rendering of +translate pages"
<kiko> be sure to say that the form controls should be omitted
<kiko> because that's the fundamental part of it
<steveire> kiko: That's true, but it still doesn't work...
<kiko> steveire, it will once that bug is fixed, and fixing that bug is not too far off now that I know how easy it is
<carlos> kiko: ok
<kiko> cool
<kiko> steveire, I am just amazed nobody thought of that before. you are a true wizard
<kiko> carlos, let me know the bug # so I can bump it up
<steveire> hehe. You'd want to do a full rethink of what you look for in the url you'll want inurl:translate in the search string as well.
<carlos> ok, let me finish my lunch and I will file it
<salgado> okay, the queue should be shorter by now; /me goes for lunch
<kiko> steveire, hmmm?
<steveire> Are you going to put a google search form for rosetta somewhere on launchpad?
<kiko> steveire, well, that's a possible second step. I would rather we offered a search ourselves but this cheap approach may end up working very well. let's get the indexing going first.
<steveire> Very Good. I've no idea about that kind of stuff so I'll leave you to it.
<kiko> mpt, gotmail!
<mpt> kiko, thanks, already reading it
<kiko> cool
<kiko> mpt, are you freaking out, or can I reply to mark positively?
<mpt> kiko, I was partway through a reply to the list
<mpt> or would you prefer it just to you?
<kiko> reply to: me cc: list
<kiko> matsubara, can you file a critical bug for me please? "Bugs in the unknown status are not returned in bug listings for a context" and use my rationale in launchpad-users:Finding bugs with Unknown status?
<matsubara> kiko: yes, sure.
<kiko> matsubara, assign to me is fine
<kiko> matsubara, bonus points for replying to bjorn's launchpad-users message with it.
<kiko> hey stub 
<kiko> have a sec?
<mpt> kiko, replied
<kiko> thanks mpt
<kiko> mpt:
<kiko> Brilliant have not supplied the large-size application images yet. I'm
<kiko> mailing them now.
<matsubara> kiko: bug 44238
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 44238 in malone "Bugs with Unknown status are not included in the bug listings" [Medium,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/44238
<kiko> mpt, just use the same images with a different tint for now.
<kiko> mpt, when the new images come in, just replace those.
<kiko> ok?
<mpt> yes
<kiko> good man
<kiko> mpt:
<kiko> On what page do you see this problem?
<stub> kiko: eh?
<kiko> on any facet page
<kiko> for instance, the bugs page for firefox, mpt 
<kiko> stub, just wanted to check with you on this beta.launchpad thing as I need to give mark some assurance in email
<LarstiQ> ok, why do I keep seeing some sort of OSX striped interface popup on launchpad before it gets overriden with the current flat blue look?
<kiko> mpt, that list of exceptions is fine, very good job
<kiko> LarstiQ, it's because the CSS caching is busted, but look at staging.launchpad.net to see how it will be shortly
<stub> kiko: We are just finalizing the setup right now. If I had a cert password, I could even be testing it :)
<mpt> kiko, "build 3755 | bugs" appears to be debugging code added by SteveA
<kiko> stub, you are a rock star
<kiko> mpt, gotcha.
<kiko> thanks.
<mpt> Well, I added the "bugs" part at the top of the page, and he's moved it to a less obtrusive place
<kiko> cool
<kiko> cool
<mpt> Ok, hacking time, bbl
<kiko> mpt, godspeed
<mpt> :-)
* LarstiQ can't but complete that with Black Emperor in his head
<salgado> SteveA, around?
<SteveA> salgado: I am around
<SteveA> although a bit distracted by packing
<salgado> SteveA, we have the rss feed for mirrors, and kiko asked why we don't provide it as an "alternate" link on the page, to publicize it
<salgado> since that list is not really useful for users --it's there mostly for other programs to get that info out of launchpad
<salgado> SteveA, mpt doesn't think we should do that, but kiko told me to ask you
<SteveA> what does the RSS feed tell you?
<ddaa> free advice: if it's not useful with a normal user rss reader, then there should not be an alternate link. Instead it should be documented in the help text.
<salgado> gives you a list of the mirrors, with the country, speed, URL, etc of each mirror
<salgado> ddaa, agreed
* ddaa walks out
<SteveA> doesn't sound like something to put in an RSS reader
<SteveA> I agree with ddaa
<SteveA> put it in the help text
<Znarl> I think it might be good to have, as it would allow other sites to list Ubuntu mirrors.
<salgado> Znarl, the help text is something new in LP 1.0, and it'll be shown on that page, so they can easily find out
<carlos> kiko-fud: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/71283
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 71283 in rosetta "Allow non-autenticated rendering of +translate pages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71283 in rosetta "Allow non-autenticated rendering of +translate pages" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71283
<carlos> Ubugtu: I win!
<BjornT> ddaa: ping?
#launchpad 2006-11-11
<ddaa> BjornT: pong
<BjornT> ddaa: i'm reviewing svn-peg-revision now. could you explained briefly what peg_revision does?
<ddaa> I'm writing test cases for this just now.
<ddaa> briefly, it works around brain-damaged defaults in pysvn
<ddaa> so the code actually does what it was intended to do all along
<ddaa> the test cases are quite massively larger that the code, though
<ddaa> IOW, please don't review this right now :)
<BjornT> ddaa: ok, cool, i'll wait for the tests then :)
<ddaa> It so happens that I need test cases anyway to make sure that the pyrex work will no regress this. This bug has a pretty nasty silent failure mode :(
<lifeless> ddaa: can you shepard https://launchpad.net/products/libsyncml/trunk ?
<ddaa> lifeless: I'm not going to have the time tonight
<ddaa> oh well, nevermind
<ddaa> lifeless: I'll finish it tomorrow
<lifeless> ddaa: thanks
<ddaa> spiv: oh, btw, you've got twisted
<lifeless> test failed ?
<ddaa> mh
<ddaa> weird one
<ddaa> https://macquarie.warthogs.hbd.com/roomba/status/libsyncml-trunk/events/6/log
<ddaa> lifeless: looks like you've got the url a bit wrong
<ddaa> you're sure it's not http://svn.opensync.org/trunk/libsyncml instead?
<ddaa> also, it smells of svn:externals all over the place
<lifeless> ddaa: http://libsyncml.opensync.org/wiki/download
<lifeless> svn co http://svn.opensync.org/libsyncml/trunk libsyncml
<ddaa> if it works, then I bet it's full of svn:externals
<lifeless> it checks out ok
<ddaa> in this case, then you're toast, at least in the short term
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> svn.opensync.org/libsyncml is the root of a repository
<ddaa> the import spews lots of warnings like
<ddaa> WARNING:root:ignored change outside branch: action=M path=u'/trunk/configure.ac' copyfrom_revision=None copyfrom_path=None
<ddaa> WARNING:root:ignored change outside branch: action=M path=u'/trunk/libsyncml/parser/sml_xml_parse.c' copyfrom_revision=None copyfrom_path=None
<lifeless> yes, I see
<ddaa> mh
<ddaa> I do not have to diagnose this tonight anyway.
<ddaa> Might be a simple fix.
<ddaa> Can this wait until Monday?
<lifeless> ok, no problem.
<lifeless> I think I know
<lifeless> the root detection logic is probably finding http://svn.opensync.org/ as the root of the repository, which is wrong :(
<ddaa> might be
<lifeless> svn seems able to tell us.
<lifeless> so we should start doing that.
<ddaa> there's a fixed root detection logic in the pyrex branch
<lifeless> cool
<ddaa> just need somebody to just fucking review it :)
<ddaa> before I've finished porting the whole code to pyrex, preferrably...
<lifeless> well four reviewers are at sprint, its a little hard :)
<ddaa> well, the assigned reviewer for this is SteveA...
<ddaa> this is scary
<ddaa> I spent four hours writing tests that somehow manage _not_ to exercice the bug I wanted to test...
<kiko-fud> heh
<kiko-fud> man it is FREEZING here today
<kiko-fud> my hands are toast
<ddaa> the scary thing is that I know that the code fixed the bug, because it made actual failing imports pass
<ddaa> but I must just not be bending svn in quite the right way
* ddaa calls it a day
<salgado> kiko-fud, it's freezing here too. must be around 15C outside
<salgado> kiko-fud, btw, do you have any other concerns with my mirror-reassignment branch or can I merge it?
<carlos> kiko-fud: did you see danilo's comment on using google to index Rosetta??
<carlos> kiko-fud: nevermind
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71303 in launchpad "https://launchpad.net/people/<team>/+branches could do with status filtering" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71303
<kiko-fud> carlos, hmmm, not yet
<kiko-fud> salgado, it is -5C here
<kiko-fud> I just came back from a 2h bike ride
<kiko-fud> my fingers HURT
<kiko> carlos, I don't really care much about timeouts myself.. if rosetta isn't fast enough to render the suggestions, it's a bug anyway
<carlos> kiko: well, if google gets most of the pages as timeouts
<carlos> kiko: then it's useless ;-)
<kiko> carlos, but it won't, surely. we don't really time out that much
<carlos> and yes, it's a bug, but it's still useless :-P
<kiko> heh
<carlos> kiko: well, google will have a bunch of pages to index and our timeout reports will go out of scale
<kiko> carlos, I somehow doubt it...
<carlos> it's also a good way to catch the timeouts ;-)
<carlos> kiko: if we don't merge a fix for the suggestions problem, I think so
<kiko> well
<carlos> btw, how's that going?
<kiko> depends on how we want to fix suggestions
<kiko> it's not going at all right now
<kiko> carlos, how hard is it to do the DB refactoring you guys are planning on doing?
<carlos> kiko: I don't think it should be too complex
<carlos> but the rollout will take a while....
<kiko> carlos, a lot of database code will need to change right?
<kiko> heh
<carlos> sure, but most of the time will be change the table name
<carlos> or removal unneeded queries
<kiko> mmm 
<kiko> ok
<carlos> to use a class property
<kiko> yeah
<kiko> ok!
<kiko> I'm outta here for a bit
<stub> Can we please finish the spec before changing the rosetta database schema?
<kiko-zzz> stub?
<kiko-zzz> what are you talking about?
<stub> The rosetta db performance spec so sort suggestions.
<stub> And other things
<kiko-zzz> heh
<kiko-zzz> stub, you're funny
* kiko-zzz waves
<carlos> kiko-zzz: night
* Mez anyone want to play some UT2004? ping me
<BHSPitMonkey> mdke, thanks
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71382 in launchpad-bazaar "Add the ability to push branches in SVN trunk" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71382
<kiko-zzz> wow, people will file bugs on anything
#launchpad 2006-11-12
<frafu> Hello
<frafu> Could anyone please tell me what the acronym BOF means exactly? 
<frafu> I am reading about the lifecycle of a spec and there is the term BOF; moreover when searching the wiki I often encouter the term BOF. 
<frafu> I hope that I am not in the wrong channel to ask that question. 
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71516 in malone "Correct product not selectable in add upstream task/bug" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71516
<Ubugtu> New bug: #71545 in launchpad "packaging details shows wrong on the product side but correct on the distro side" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/71545
#launchpad 2007-11-05
<aa_> hi, I can't find complete docs on the XMLRPC, it seems that it can't be used to retrieve bug data, is that correct?
<Odd_Bloke> !weekend
<ubotu> It's a weekend.  Often on weekends, the paid developers, and a lot of the community, may not be around to answer your question.  Please be patient, wait longer than you normally would, or try again during the working week.
<Odd_Bloke> aa_: ^
<Odd_Bloke> I'm afraid I don't know.
<aa_> Odd_Bloke: thanks, it's ok though I just wanted an example for a blog post
<aa_> Odd_Bloke: http://unpythonic.blogspot.com/2007/11/desktop-widgets-with-pygtk-launchpad.html if you care
<Hobbes`> Is it normal/acceptable for someone to be Drafter , Assignee and Mentor for a blueprint on launchpad ? 
<mdke> Hobbes`: I think it depends on the project rather than on Launchpad policy
<Hobbes`> it doesn't sound logical that someone can be their own "mentor" 
<mdke> I agree
 * Hobbsee wishes launchpad did redirects
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Redirects to/from what?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: lp.net/~ubuntu-qa, to whatever it is now
<Fujitsu> Ah.
<philiKON> does anybody know how i would change the "current development focus" from one series to another?
<Fujitsu> philiKON: It's a filed near the bottom of the /yourproject/+edit
<Fujitsu> *field
<philiKON> i see
<philiKON> man, the launchpad UI needs some streamlining
<philiKON> it's very counter-intuitive
<mdke> philiKON: filing bugs is the best way to help with that
<philiKON> cool
<philiKON> i will
<jimcooncat> Read the help and still don't get it -- is there a step-by-step guide to starting and managing my own project?
<jimcooncat> I just want to make a simple conversion tool -- generate a UUID and convert it's value to a more useful format.
<Odd_Bloke> jimcooncat: Assuming this isn't an existing project, you create a project at https://launchpad.net/projects/+new
<jimcooncat> Odd_Bloke: Once I do that, will it be obvious how to get started? I need revision control and a repository for my little app
<Odd_Bloke> jimcooncat: Reasonably so.  You'll need to install bzr if you don't already have it.
<jimcooncat> Odd_Bloke: Where I'm starting from scratch, would it make sense to start with hello world package and change that?
<Odd_Bloke> jimcooncat: I don't quite follow what you mean.
<jimcooncat> Odd_Bloke: I can probably make a bash script do what I want to. But I need to make a package out of it, and don't know how. Maybe I should start with a generic package?
<Odd_Bloke> jimcooncat: What do you mean by 'package'?
<jimcooncat> Odd_Bloke: deb file with dependencies. For example, I need to generate a UUID, so I need ext2 tools.
<Odd_Bloke> jimcooncat: OK, a Debian/Ubuntu package?
<jimcooncat> Odd_Bloke: Yes, sorry if I wasn't clear. I've read all the docs, and the process seems muddy -- I don't want to become a dd or MOTU.
<Odd_Bloke> jimcooncat: OK, this isn't really the channel to ask this in.
<Hobbsee> you're doing packaging, or you're making an app?
<Odd_Bloke> Simply because people won't know. :p
<jimcooncat> Hobbsee, I want to make a simple package from a bash script with dependencies, I want revision control on it, I want community feedback. 
<Hobbsee> right
<jimcooncat> I'm just confused by the documentation. I really need a step-by-step on packaging, bzr, and launchpad.
<Odd_Bloke> LP can do the latter two.  It can also build and host the first.  You still need to know how to package your thing independant of LP though.
<Hobbsee> so, to create the project and use the revision control, you want the launchpad stuff.  if you want users to compile it, then they can just report bugs with launchapd, and you can ignroe the packaging
<Hobbsee> if you want to make it into a nice deb for them, you need the packaging guide
<jimcooncat> OK, so should I concentrate on packaging up a deb first, or get bzr set up first, or set up a Launchpad branch first?
<Hobbsee> the latter
<Hobbsee> you need the code done, before trying to package it
<jimcooncat> OK, so for the first version I can just make a very simple batch script, that just calls uuidgen and spits out the value. I'll do my conversion portion later.
<jimcooncat> I guess I should just get started and try to learn, but I was really hoping for more of a guide.
<Hobbsee> wiki.ubuntu.com/Bzr is the bzr one
<Hobbsee> i thought it was linked from bzr docs - or something similar
<jimcooncat> Sorry Hobbsee, that is what I need. Captain Obvious strikes again! 
<Hobbsee> :)
<Hobbsee> that' sthe ubuntu one, but the generic one shoudlnt be that different
<jimcooncat> Thanks for your time, guys.
<ubotu> New bug: #160191 in launchpad "Redirection to edge logs out" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160191
<markybob> i'm trying to download language files from launchpad, but i havent been getting the emails that it claims i should be receiving with the download link.  it's a gmail account, i've checked the spam, and it's been over a day.  i've tried resubmitting it, but i still havent gotten anything.  is this known?  anyone else seeing it?
<salty-horse> hi. has anyone else noticed email notification subject replacing spaces with tabs in the bug title?
<pardus> Hi, anybody here who can help me getting translations enabled for my project? Translation file is pending for review for about a week or so.
<mdke> pardus: maybe email the launchpad-users mailing list. There is a conference this week so it's possible you'll need to be patient
<pardus> mdke: Ok, don't want to sound impatient but the administration seems kind of not responsive. Starting to wonder why tranlations need aproval when I can upload code without anyone checking it.
<ubotu> New bug: #160280 in launchpad "How I cancel join invitation to a team" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160280
<mdke> pardus: yeah, I think you have a valid point. Possibly there is a reason but it would make sense at least to ask :)
<ubotu> New bug: #160300 in launchpad "PPA activate page has text with bad grammar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160300
<ubotu> New bug: #160308 in rosetta "Timeouts on large export requests" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160308
<Ubulette> is codebrowse broken ? i get a proxy error after a looooong timeout
<Fujitsu> Ubulette: It does seem to be broken - I've poked somebody about it.
<Ubulette> Fujitsu, ok, thanks
<ubotu> New bug: #160331 in soyuz "Builds screen says no packages building whilst some are building" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160331
<LaserJock> Fujitsu: you know when translation people are usually around?
<Fujitsu> LaserJock: Remember that everyone is probably at AllHands.
<LaserJock> bah
<LaserJock> that shouldn't excuse them from work ;-)
#launchpad 2007-11-06
<somerville32> What happens when we run out of numbers for launchpad bugs?
<LaserJock> I would assume that that would be a long time from now
<LaserJock> although they coulds sooner become very annoying
<LaserJock> have you seen bug #129501389809403872298904042?
<somerville32> Not yet. Is it a toughie?
<mae^> is anyone else having a problem with codebrowse.launchpad.net?
<somerville32> Someone reported problems earlier
<mwhudson> mae^: specifics?
<mae^> I'
<mae^> I'm not getting any response back
<mwhudson> hm
<mwhudson> i can't ssh into the server either
<mwhudson> oh, i can
<mae^> port 80 still is open
<mwhudson> but loadavg is 18...
<mae^> that'd be it
<Odd_Bloke> Heh.
<somerville32> Start killing stuff :P
<mwhudson> mae^: should be working now
<mae^> excellent! thx
 * mwhudson goes to bed, grumbling about unreliable software as he goe
<mwhudson> s
 * Hobbsee wonders why launchpad is even doing ppa stuff at all
 * Hobbsee notes that this is contradictory
<Hobbsee>  * PPA packages are now overridden to the main component and can be
<Hobbsee>    built against all Ubuntu components.
<Hobbsee> and it's in the release notes.  yay.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: U m?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: how's it overridden to main, when it builds against all components?
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Components no longer exist in PPAs.
<Hobbsee> or does it get sent to main, so that the binary and source appear, yet you cant actually rebuild it on a local system, with main only.
<Fujitsu> Well, they do, but everything is mainl;
<Fujitsu> Does your local system have ogre-model? I doubt it.
<Hobbsee> sure it does.  main only pbuilder.  useful for some stuff.
<Hobbsee> if i rebuild it in that, ti's likely to fail due to build-deps being not found.  which is kinda misleadng :)
 * Hobbsee was expecting them to all get overriden to universe.
<Fujitsu> Hobbsee: You mean multiverse?
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: if we're building against multiverse now, yes.
<Hobbsee> Fujitsu: or a fancy use/mutation of the 404main script, which will check which the build deps are satisfied in :)
<Fujitsu> main is generally the standard component across all Debianish archives.
<Fujitsu> Making it the one and only component for PPA makes sense.
<Hobbsee> true
<Hobbsee> in some sense
<Hobbsee> i guess you either completely follow the ogre model, or completely ignore it
<Hobbsee> so it either breaks for the uploaders, or those who recieve it, and want to rebuild it, or something
<Hobbsee> although, granted, the wish to rebuild is probably less used than to upload, and follow the documentation
<ajmitch> people probably assume that that can modify & upload a package without having to munge debian/control
<Hobbsee> yeah
<Hobbsee> similarly, people seem to also think that the packages from ppa also seem to get imported into the ubuntu repository.
<LaserJock> really?
<Hobbsee> yup
<somerville32> Lucky for us, they aren't
<Hobbsee> exactly
<claud1> could someone take a look to bug #107971
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 107971 in gcompris "Incomplete French translation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107971
<claud1> and at least raise the importance
<LaserJock> claud1: I don't think the relevent people are around yet
<LaserJock> but I'm interested in that bug as well
<claud1> LaserJock: thanks
<claud1> i don't see danilo around :-/
<LaserJock> I'm just not sure what the problem is, not being a translator myself
<claud1> the problem is that the pot file in Launchpad is not the good one
<claud1> but i don't know why
<Fujitsu> claud1: carlos and danilos are the two you want to attack, but they're probably at Canonical AllHands.
<claud1> Fujitsu: yes, probably
<LaserJock> claud1: the uploaded .pot is incorrect?
<claud1> the .pot is not uploaded IMHO it is automatically generated
<claud1> with intltool
<LaserJock> right
<LaserJock> I'm just wonder if it's a Launchpad problem or a packaging problem
<claud1> i just downloaded the source package
<claud1> i'll see if i can see a problem with it
<claud1> intltool-update -p
<claud1> 0 translated messages, 1186 untranslated messages.
<claud1> so the pot generation is OK
<claud1> i cannot check further
<claud1> LaserJock: please double-check the packaging of gcompris
<claud1> in the case the pot file depends on some build time script
<claud1> see that with danilo/carlos
<ubotu> New bug: #160412 in soyuz "Please create a morgue/cruft pocket" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160412
<ubotu> New bug: #160430 in launchpad "no way to specify meta-project bug tracker" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160430
<ubotu> New bug: #160432 in launchpad "no way to turn off translations for a meta-project" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160432
<ubotu> New bug: #160439 in soyuz "Some builds fail when they should depwait" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160439
<ubotu> New bug: #160472 in launchpad "404 errors logging into old bug" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160472
<BUGabundo> hya
<BUGabundo> just got  error ID         OOPS-675C668
<ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/675C668
<BUGabundo> searching for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+search?text=SoftwarePropertiesGtk
<BUGabundo> bad ubotu!! that link requires login!
<cyberix> Can I somehow see closed bugs I've reported.
<somerville32> cyberix, You can
<somerville32> If you subscribed yourself
<ubotu> New bug: #160551 in rosetta "downloads of single po files or the whole bundle broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160551
<danilos> carlos: hey
<danilos> stub: around?
<ubotu> New bug: #155052 in ubuntu "minor language bug in norwegian version of Gutsy kubuntu (dup-of: 133315)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/155052
<ubotu> New bug: #160603 in launchpad "[edge] List of my bugs have links that return 404" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160603
<somerville32> Do we get karma for uploads yet?
<salgado> somerville32, not yet
<LaserJock> danilos: still around?
<somerville32> How can I get involved with launchpad development?
<LaserJock> somerville32: you get hired on by Canonical to work on it? :-)
<somerville32> No
<somerville32> I was told I could sign an NDA
<LaserJock> yes, but I'm not sure what the odds of that actually happening are
<somerville32> The last time I asked, all I had to say was yes but I opted for the other option - no.
<LaserJock> so answer yes this time ;-)
<somerville32> lol
<carlos> somerville32: you need to talk with kiko, SteveA or Rinchen about it, they are the ones that could provide you with more information
<somerville32> Yea. It was Kiko I was talking to last time.
<SteveA> somerville32: hello
<somerville32> Hiya SteveA :)
<SteveA> somerville32: I encourage you to get involved in our documentation efforts and perhaps in our QA work
<somerville32> SteveA, I'd like to assist with development.
<SteveA> I don't have any process for people to work on Launchpad who aren't at Canonical
<SteveA> if you're a really good python programmer with web app and database experience
<SteveA> you can talk to me about getting a job here
<somerville32> SteveA, Thats something I might be interested in in a about half a year or so. I'll be sure to ping you at that time.
<LaserJock> SteveA: you have a specific recommendations for people wanting to help with docs?
<SteveA> cool.  if you want advice from some crack python programmers about learning stuff, let me know and I'll put you in touch with people.  (then again, maybe you're a crack python programmer already!)
<SteveA> LaserJock: mrevell is starting up a launchpad documentation project
<SteveA> LaserJock: so talk with mrevell
<LaserJock> SteveA: ah, nice
#launchpad 2007-11-07
<karlox> hi 
<karlox> we Oscar Coca and carlos ramirez of Manizales University developed a Gervoice
<karlox> http://gnomefiles.org/app.php/GERvoice
<karlox> but this project was Abandoned
<karlox> by we don't have money
<karlox> I want to raise funds for further develop any ideas ?
<karlox> thanks  for   your help
<mdke> carlos_: if I rename a translation team, will it still retain the permissions required to commit to rosetta/Ubuntu
<mdke> or anyone
<somerville32> mdke, rename the unix name or the display name?
<somerville32> mdke, either way, I'm pretty sure it will.
<somerville32> Can someone delete this?
<somerville32> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/45944/comments/16
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 45944 in ubuntu-docs "Ubuntu Server Guide Not Installed On Servers" [Medium,Triaged]  - Assigned to Ubuntu Documentation Project Team (ubuntu-doc)
<carlos_> mdke: yes, permissions will remain
<MenZa> Where does one register a team on Launchpad?
<Hobbsee> lp.net/people ?
<MenZa> That did it, cheers
<frafu> Hello, I have a problem with launchpad: I don't get the email with the link to download the translation files of a project. I am using launchpad unstable, but somebody else that I know to use launchpad stable has the same problem. There is even a bug filed for the problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/160551 Anybody knows how to work around the issue? 
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 160551 in rosetta "downloads of single po files or the whole bundle broken" [Undecided,New] 
<kiko> frafu, talk to carlos and danilos
<kiko> they should know!
<danilos> frafu: translations are currently delayed a bit, we are working on it
<frafu> danilos: ok, thanks. Do you already have an idea when they will again be available? 
<danilos> frafu: they are available, but they are pretty slow: we estimate a few days of wait (we've got a big backlog right now)
<frafu> danilos: i have changed a few strings and requested a download, but did not get the email yet ; in the meantime I changed a few other strings and requested a new download. My question: when the email with the link arrives, will it include the files with all the changes or only the first changes? Will the latter changes will arrive in a email? 
<danilos> frafu: you should get all changes
<frafu> danilos: Sorry, i wanted to ask whether the latter changes would arrive in a second email. But it seems you understood nevertheless.  thanks for the replies.
<leonel> my launchpad  account is suscribed to  some lists 
<leonel> and is suscribed for my teams  in launchpad 
<leonel> can I unsuscribe  from the mailling list and suscribe another   and there won't be problems with launchpad ?
<ubotu> New bug: #160818 in launchpad-bazaar "record branch format" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160818
<Ubulette> strange.. for the last few days, each of my pushes to my ppa took more than 1h to appear as "Pending(0)", even with all ppa builders idle
#launchpad 2007-11-08
<ubotu> New bug: #160872 in launchpad "Launchpad is losing my bugs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160872
<Andre_Gondim> what is the problem with launchpad?
<ubotu> New bug: #160874 in launchpad ""Add a comment/attachment" at end of page is broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160874
#launchpad 2008-11-03
<radix> hey all, is there a way to dput to my PPA without uploading the same orig.tar.gz?
<radix> which I've already uploaded in a previous dput, that is
<wgrant> radix: Just don't build with -sa...
<radix> wgrant: I didn't pass -sa
<wgrant> radix: What is the version string?
<radix> oh, never mind :)
<wgrant> Hm?
<radix> it didn't upload the same .orig.tar.gz
<wgrant> That could do it.
<radix> I don't know why I thought it would
<radix> er, crap
<radix> I guess I needed to upload it again after all
<wgrant> Why?
<radix> my first upload failed because I typoed the distroseries. now with my latest upload it can't find the orig.tar.gz
<radix> I guess it rejected the baby with the bathwater
<wgrant> A rejection is everything, yes.
<wgrant> If it rejects due to a bad sig, I don't really want the files to pollute my PPA.
<radix> understandable
<radix> so now I have the opposite problem, I guess :)
<radix> I guess I should debuild with -sa?
<wgrant> Correct.
<wgrant> Wait...
<wgrant> Why?
<wgrant> Why isn't it uploading it this time?
<radix> wgrant: so, my second upload did not upload the .orig.tar.gz, and I built ~ppa2 just the same as ~ppa1
<radix> (debuild -S)
<wgrant> radix: Since it was rejected, you don't have to increment the version.
<radix> oh, okay. I thought I remember something about PPA blacklisting versions or whatever
<radix> I guess that's only for FTBFS instead of rejections
<Hobbsee> radix: that's if it actually only made it to your ppa in the first place.
<wgrant> It only blacklists accepted versions.
<radix> ok, so
<Hobbsee> radix: this got rejected before it reached your ppa.
<radix> I uploaded ~ppa2 and it didn't upload the source. I'd now like to upload ~ppa2 and include the source.
 * wgrant uploads 9999:1 with a bad signature to Hobbsee's PPA, and cackles evilly.
<radix> wgrant: I see :)
<wgrant> radix: You could build with -sa, or decrement thee version.
 * Hobbsee uploads ultamatix to wgrant's ppa, and uploads a new version of libc6 with ultamatix as a dependancy.
<Hobbsee> (with a similar epoch)
 * Hobbsee cackles more evilly
<radix> Ok, I'll build with -sa since I know some people hate it even when you change a version that only ever saw your hard disk.
<wgrant> Damn.
<wgrant> Sounds good.
<wgrant> Hobbsee: I don't think Ultamatix can survive this.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: muhahahahaha :)
<radix> wgrant: you are, as always, most helpful. thank you.
<radix> Hobbsee: and thank you as well.
<Hobbsee> radix: you're welcome
<wgrant> radix: np
<NCommander> Hobbsee, o_o;
<stgraber> Hobbsee: ultimatix by default, should we propose that for jaunty ? :)
<Hobbsee> stgraber: only if you want to be impaled.
<wgrant> stgraber: Sure, once TheeMahn fixes mjg59's non-construcive criticism.
<Hobbsee> by multiple people :)
<stgraber> Hobbsee: I don't have upload rights, do you want to sponsor it ? :)
 * wgrant is reminded of how Hobbsee fell for jdong's April 1st joke this year.
<stgraber> wgrant: bah, it's just a matter of using expect on apt instead of using --force-yes -y no ? :)
<Hobbsee> wgrant: that's true.  but it was more fun to just have a go at him anyway.
<ajmitch> stgraber: agreed, someone needs to upload it with Essential
<poolie_> hi
<poolie_> do PPAs build for Jaunty yet?
<poolie_> i'm guessing Jaunty is probably super unstable atm and the answer is no
<jamesh> poolie_: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas lists Jaunty as frozen, so I guess not
<jamesh> poolie_: if you submit jaunty builds now, they'll probably get processed once things get opened
<jamesh> (that's what happened for an intrepid build I submitted early last cycle
<poolie_> thanks
<poolie_> i wonder why my uploads aren't showing up there?
<jamesh> dunno
<Hobbsee> poolie_: that probably means that the distro "jaunty" exists, but no buildd tarballs exist for it yet
<Hobbsee> (although I note they do for regular builds, where they're still doing a toolchain)
<Hobbsee> I presume they will start existing when the archive is open for general uploads
<poolie_> mm
<poolie_> my upload will presumably either succeed or fail, so it was just general curiousity
<Hobbsee> i'd expect it'll just sit in needsbuild or something
<poolie_> and they're showing on that page now, which is nice
<Hobbsee> indeed!
<Hobbsee> so it doesn't look to be broken or anything
<jamesh> it'd be nice if feedback for builds was as responsive as for bazaar.launchpad.net ...
<spiv> jamesh: yeah
<poolie_> spiv, 2/3 of them are done, i'm going to do the third review
<poolie_> but you don't need to land them right away or anything
<lathiat> Howdy all.. question.. how do I can my @ubuntu.com forward?
<spm> lathiat: mail requests to rt@ubuntu.com and/or ask in #canonical-sysadmin. But as they're all asleep atm, rt@ is your best best.
<lathiat> thanks spm
<wgrant> jamesh: A distroseries' status doesn't affect PPAs.
<wgrant> THe reason uploads aren't working is that none of Jaunty's archs are enabled for PPAs
<jamesh> wgrant: ah.  I assumed the "frozen" bit on the PPA page was related to no architectures being listed
 * jamesh never played much with the PPA UI
<wgrant> jamesh: No, it's just that primary is frozen for toolchain changes.
<wgrant> So that bit of UI is misleading.
<dholbach> could it be that there are some problems with the Launchpad API login?
<dholbach> after the authorization page thingie I get a 401 Unauthorized
<NCommander> dholbach, ?
<wgrant> dholbach: Works fine for me (on edge)
<dholbach> ah ok... edge works for me too
<Peng_> If you use the "disable redirection to edge for 2 hours" button, can you turn the redirection back on, or do you have to wait for 2 hours no matter what?
<wgrant> Peng_: You should have a button on launchpad.net to reenable it.
<Peng_> OK, cool. :)
<Yoe> hi -- I note that launchpad.net/nbd points to SF.net's CVS repository
<Yoe> nbd hasn't been using that repository for years, we've switched to svn ages ago
<njpatel> Hey, to get a super-project, do I need to set up a regular project first, or do I request the super-project and then edit the details?
<njpatel> (set up a regualr project and then ask for it to be made a super-project, I mean)
* gary_poster changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: gary_poster
<MisterN> hi. it's true: join #keyword on freenode and you're in the right place.
<beuno> MisterN, you're spamming?
<MisterN> no.
<MisterN> i've got a question, but wanted to wait a few minutes before asking. anyways, here is the question:
<MisterN> is it possible to somehow integrate a git repository with launchpad?
<MisterN> i found https://launchpad.net/bzr-git but don't know if this actually works for launchpad
<beuno> MisterN, not currently, no
<MisterN> :(
<MisterN> beuno: what would you suggest? just wait until it is supported?
<beuno> MisterN, yeah, there's really nothing else to do for now. I Know there is some work being done to be able to import git branches
<beuno> maybe jelmer knows more about this
<MisterN> i think it's important, as git starts to dominate pretty much
<gary_poster> Stedevil: you asked about a code import problem for https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/freedroid/trunk on Saturday.  We are aware of this problem.  Please subscribe to bug 156744 if you'd like to keep up with progress.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 156744 in launchpad-cscvs "bogus repository root detection" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156744
<gary_poster> fta: you asked about a code import problem for https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/googlechrome/trunk on Saturday.  We are also aware of this problem.  I do not have a bug number for you, unfortunately, but if you would like me to dig further for it, I will try.  I am told that fixing this is in progress, but it will not land this cycle.
<MisterN> gary_poster: are you a bot? :)
<gary_poster> MisterN: :-) no
<gmb> MisterN: No, he's a cyborg assembled from the spare body parts of dead Zope devs.
<gary_poster> lol
<thekorn> hi all, is requesting a login token with launchpadlib for staging.lp.net known to be broken?
<thekorn> I try to use get_token_and_login() as usual, but always get a 401 error
<thekorn> and I'm wondering if it is launchpadlib beeing incompatible with recent changes on staging
<thekorn> of if it is an issue with the login (or whatever) system on staging
<gary_poster> thekorn: I'll check into it right now and get back to you.
<thekorn> gary_poster, thank you
<bac> thekorn: i just tried using staging with a script that is know to work.  i also got a 401 today.
<bac> gary_poster: ^^
<bac> s/know/known
<gary_poster> bac: good to know, thanks.  I have pending question to mars and flacoste.
<thekorn> I managed to get an OOPS id, don't know if it helps: X-Lazr-Oopsid: OOPS-1038S23
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1038S23
<gary_poster> thekorn: thanks.  Not available yet, but I'll pass it along when it is.
<Stedevil> gary_poster: Thanks, Ill subscribe to that bug :)
<Stedevil> but gosh, it was reported >1 year ago...
<gary_poster> cool :-)
<gary_poster> Stedevil: I'm told it's in progress :-)  I don't have it in front of me, but hopefully that status change (to "in progress") is relatively recent?
<Stedevil> gary_poster: yeah, seems confirmed, assigned and work started all in the last 10 days
<gary_poster> Stedevil: cool, good news then. :-)
<gary_poster> thekorn: no reply.  I'll put a bug in so you can subscribe to it.
<thekorn> gary_poster, great, thanks
<gary_poster> thekorn: bug 293164
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293164 in launchpadlib "requesting login token for staging.lp.net generates a 401 error" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293164
<fta> gary_poster, thanks (vcs-imports/googlechrome). an ETA would be nice, yet, it's not urgent. i'm just monitoring this branch (as there's not much for linux until now)
<kiko> fta, is it on code.google.com?
<gary_poster> fta: I'm told it won't be in the next release (i.e., within three weeks or so) but it *is* actively being worked on.  My unofficial guess would be the release after that one (so, seven weeks-ish?)
<fta> kiko, yep sure, but i'm used to lp sending me patches
<kiko> fta, oh, I know -- I'm just asking because googlecode's svn server is notoriously flaky
<kiko> we almost never get an import of a large project from there
<fta> gary_poster, i'm also aware of that. i just wish we'll have something before uds
<psusi> when I look at my bugs on launchpad the list shows bugs multiple times if they are targeted to both debian and Ubuntu, or if Debian still has the bug open because they haven't applied the fix for two years... can I get rid of the entries for debian?
<gary_poster> psusi: I'll ask for you and be back within 10 minutes with either an answer or a suggestion that you file a question in Launchpad.
<gary_poster> psusi: from a bugs dev: "no - the best you can do is mark the debian task as invalid (if it is indeed invalid)"
<psusi> damn... it isn't invalid, it's just that it's been two years now since I sent the patch to the debian bts and it has yet to be applied, and I'm getting tired of seeing it on my bug list
<gary_poster> :-( understood
<psusi> that, and the bugs that are still in progress on both show up twice on my bug list, which is just unneccesary
<psusi> just makes it longer than it need be
<gary_poster> If you see a reasonable, general-purpose Launchpad feature lurking here among the annoyances you are facing, maybe open a bug to suggest it.  That's all I can suggest, I'm afraid.
<homy> Hello. I have a problem concerning ppa: A while ago, I dput ed a package to my new teams ppa, but hasn't arrived in the ppa yet; it is still empty.
<gary_poster> homy: how long ago is a while?
<homy> gary_poster: about an hour
<gary_poster> homy: ok.  that's still conceivable that it hasn't processed yet, but I'll try to get some verification for you from a code dev.
<homy> If I try to dput the package again, dput tells me the package is already uploaded.
<Nafallo> -f for force
<Nafallo> or remove the .upload
<homy> ok, I'll try to re dput the package now.
<homy> nope. Pacakge is still not in the ppa.
<gary_poster> homy: I'm told that it is likely that this will fail again, because it is likely that you signed it with a key that is not in Launchpad
<gary_poster> So, verify that the key you are using is in Launchpad first
<bigjools> or not signed it at all
<homy> gary_poster: I didn't see that in the channel...
<homy> But ok, yeah, I didn't sign it. Thanks.
<gary_poster> I homy: cool, np (thanks to bigjools actually ;-) )
<homy> launchpad didn't ask for that prerequisite when enabling the ppa. Is all at https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA#Overview mandatory?
<gary_poster> homy: looking
<bigjools> homy: unless your package is signed, it doesn't know who uploaded it
<bigjools> and yes the instructions are mandatory
<gary_poster> homy, you were asking about the Ubuntero requirement, right?  That appears to be the last thing.
<gary_poster> that is, the only thing you haven't done, once you import your PGP key
<psusi> now why on earth does this bug still show under my  bug list?  I am no longer subscribed or assigned, and neither is my team... I think it was targeted at dmraid in Janary and I retarted it to lvm since it had nothing to do with dmraid, yet it still shows me associated with the bug
<homy1> Hey, thanks a lot for the help! Currently, my package I uploaded to ppa is building! Thanks!
<homy1> I have another question about ppas: now, there is only an apt sources.list entry displayed for intrepid. Can it also be used with hardy or do I create a source package for hardy and upload that too?
<psusi> you should create a package for hardy and upload that too I think
<homy1> psusi: is that just the way it is meant, or does it also work without problems to just use the intrepid repos for hardy?
<psusi> you can try the intrepid package in hardy by pointing your sources.list to the intrepid target, but problems might arise from it being build with a different libc and such
<gary_poster> homy1: probably depends on what you are building against.  I suspect psusi is right.
<psusi> so better to retarget the source to hardy and upload it to be built on and for hardy
<homy1> sorry, what do you mean with "what you are building against", gary_poster? Sorry, I'm kinda new.
<homy1> psusi: ok.
<homy1> ah, ok, I understood now. Thanks.
<gary_poster> homy1: maybe "what you are compiling against"?  If you build against a library in intrepid, the library is probably a different version in hardy, and your software will be looking in the wrong place for things, and you may get mysterious, very unpleasant errors.
<homy1> thanks.
<fta> ppa/i386      997 builds waiting in queue ! ?? 997 ???
<fta> the return of the evil lang packs ??
<homy1> fta: all i386 distribution build machines idle...
<fta> ppa
<homy1> fta: yes, but I mean: couldn't, only when all distribution machines are idle, one of them be used for ppa?
<fta> homy1, er? i thought ppa machines were dedicated, up to a few days ago, there were far more machines dedicated to ppa, now, it's back to just 3 per arch :(
<gary_poster> fta: I'm afraid I have no idea about the problem.  Does it look like something is wrong, or just behind?
<gary_poster> (where "too much behind" is a reasonable sort of "wrong," I suppose)
<fta> gary_poster, well, i've never seen a queue of 1000 packages in PPAs, and i use them a lot... except the lang packs that come in band of ~300
<fta> is it possible to see the queue of ppas ?
<fta> i mean global queue, not per user
<gary_poster> fta: I doubt it is exposed publicly.  I'm going to ask about the queue; will be back.
<fta> gary_poster, i'm referring to https://edge.launchpad.net/+builds
<homy1> fta: what good is the copy from ppa to another ppa function?
<homy1> (oh, sorry, that was a general question, not just for fta)
<fta> homy1, ?
<fta> homy1, i'm not using it
<homy1> when refreshing package lists after having added my ppa, I am told that there was a bad signature. But: it isn't created by my key, but by some generic "Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key". Is there a way I can use a ppa without getting this warning and without trusting that generic key?
<rockstar> homy1, why don't you want to trust the key?
<gary_poster> homy1: AIUI, no.  That's how Launchpad signs the packages it built.
<homy1> rockstar: because it's a generic key used for every ppa.
<homy1> Can the copying packages function together with a different destination series and rebuilding the copied source be used to, eg, rebuild a hardy package for intrepid?
<homy1> well, thanks anyway for all the help I got in this channel :).
<homy1> bye.
<kblin> hi folks
<gary_poster> hi
<kblin> and bye again, the answers link in the topic helped :)
* gary_poster changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: none
<nhandler> I'm having an issue adding a bug watch to a debian bts bug. When I go to add the watch, it says "u'Package vzctl not published in Debian' (notice the u?) I know for a fact that vzctl is in Debian. Any ideas why I can't add the watch?
<matsubara> nhandler, what's the bug number?
<nhandler> matsubara: The Debian bug or LP bug?
<matsubara> nhandler, LP bug
<nhandler> matsubara: 293338
#launchpad 2008-11-04
<matsubara> nhandler, and you followed the "also affects distribution link"?
<nhandler> matsubara: Yeah. It gave the error I posted above when I tried to link to the upstream bug (for vzctl in Debian)
<matsubara> nhandler, try without the package
<matsubara> it seems to be the right thing to do (by looking at other ubuntu bugs with debian bugwatches) when it comes to upstream debian packages
<nhandler> Yep, that did it matsubara. I just don't remember having to delete the source package when adding a bug watch in the past.
<wgrant> matsubara: It's a bug triggered by the import of Debian into LP.
<mohbana> hi, how do i delete my account
<wgrant> mohbana: https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+edit, down the bottom.
<mohbana> wgrant: if i change my email add do i get a confirmation emai;?
<mohbana> mmm
<mohbana> i found a bug
<mohbana> all my previous bugs link to my old page
<mohbana> x wrote 11 minutes ago ... clicking on x goes to my old page
<mohbana> it seems like it's static
<wgrant> mohbana: https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+edit, down the bottom.
<mohbana> yes, done that
<wgrant> Gah.
<wgrant> Sorry, there was lots of lag.
<mohbana> ok
<mohbana> explains it
<wgrant> You do get an email.
<wgrant> What do you mean by the links go to your old page?
<mohbana> no it doesn't sorry my mistake
<stefanlsd> Is it possible to remove a bugwatch from LP yet?
<persia> stefanlsd, You can render it meaningless, and stop it from watching, but you can't remove it.
<stefanlsd> persia: mm. thanks. last i spoke to jcastro they said they were working on it.
<persia> stefanlsd, Search for the bug for that.  subscribe.  That's the best way to find out when it's done.
<wgrant> stefanlsd: Why do you want to remove it?
<stefanlsd> wgrant: the added watch is actually different from the lp bug
<wgrant> stefanlsd: Just detach it from the task.
* leonardr changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: leonardr
<bac> leonardr: thanks for swapping with me
<leonardr> bac: just doing my bit
<beuno> Hobbsee, kirkland, ping
<beuno> which one of you guys would like to take a quick peak at a screenshot?
 * persia wants to look
<beuno> heh
<beuno> persia, it's about bug #288147
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 288147 in malone "provide a non-linked bug number at the top of bug pages" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/288147
<beuno> still interested?
<persia> Yep.  I made a lot of noise about that bug, which is why I wanted to see the proposed solution.
<persia> (and I'm glad I guessed correctly : I'm still catching up on backscroll after 36 hours offline)
<persia> Is this a temporary solution, or the malone-is-smart-enough-to-correct-context-on-the-fly solution?
<beuno> persia, you mean redirect the user?
<beuno> persia, http://beuno.com.ar/uploads/bug288147.png
<persia> That, or just render the right context and rewrite the URL.  redirection is expensive for those with high latency.
<beuno> added the bug # on the right-side again
<beuno> no redirects for now, as some people use URL hacking to link stuff to stuff, and we sometimes have multiple contexts, so it needs a little more consideration
<persia> As a workaround, that definitely solves the common usecase, and should get us back to seeing bug numbers pasted more instead of URLs (which is especially nice for those of us who don't log into edge).
<beuno> cool
<beuno> in that same branch
<beuno> I'm also fixing bug #78565
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 78565 in malone "no direct link from bug comment page to corresponding bug" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78565
<beuno> which was one of the bug wins we would have from the original change
<persia> Yeah, guessing the context isn't easy at all.  I use the url hacking workaround myself, but as previously expressed, due to various other issues pending time to address, it probably makes sense to limit that, and limit URL hacking to functions that can't change things.
<beuno> alright,  I'll keep working a bit on the branch and see if I can get it landed today
<beuno> it has some other changes
<beuno> like the text when a bug is marked as a duplicate
<persia> Right.  It's a simple URL hack to work around 78565, but users shouldn't have to do that.  The screenshot seems to address both use cases, at a cost of a little suplicate information.
<persia> Users will have to learn to go to the top right rather than top left for the double-click copy though.  What do you think about having the new text be the link?
<beuno> I thought of that
<beuno> and sounded like a good idea
<beuno> but, then we wouldn't have a fix for bug 78565
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 78565 in malone "no direct link from bug comment page to corresponding bug" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78565
<persia> Oh, because that doesn't appear on the bug comment page?
<beuno> because we don't show the right-hand part on the permalink for a comment
<beuno> yeah
 * persia looks at a bug
<beuno> so it wouldn't be consistent
<beuno> and I'm a big fan of consistency
<persia> Hrm.  The bug comment page needs a lot of other work, but I agree that putting the bare text on the right is probably the best solution for now.
<persia> By the way, how do you determine the correct context from a URL like https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/78565/comments/1 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 78565 in malone "no direct link from bug comment page to corresponding bug" [Undecided,In progress]
<beuno> yeah, we have a sprint for bugs UI in 3 weeks or so
<beuno> persia, that's a fantastic question, for which I don't have an answer  :)
<persia> Well, see, this new link thing must have some logic : I guess I'm asking "How are you fixing 78565?"
<persia> Or does it just redirect to bugs/nnnnnn and then bounce from there?
<beuno> exactly
<persia> Ah.  That's broken in known ways then (and one's I personally find convenient), so no complaints :)
<beuno> ha
<persia> s/'//
<beuno> ok
<beuno> so +1?
<persia> Yeah.  It's annoying because it's a change, but it no longer removes functionality, and it does reduce requirements for URL hacking for some use case.
<beuno> super
<persia> Since it's impossible to fix bugs without change, it's probably the best until Malone can get smarter about realtime redirects.
<beuno> and we'll look into deeper solutions when we re-work the bug UI as a whole
<persia> Do you think it would be possible to present the target screenshots developed at the UI sprint for general review, just in case anyone spots similar uncatalogued use cases that might be affected by the changes?
<beuno> persia, yes, I would love to get feedback before doing big changes
<beuno> and, I'll be at UDS
<beuno> so I'll probably be trying to steal time from everyone to get feedback
<persia> That sounds like excellent timing : the sprint concludes near UDS start, right?
<beuno> yeap, 1 week in between
<kirkland> beuno: howdy
<beuno> hey hey kirkland
<beuno> got a minutes to give me some input on the above ^  ?
<kirkland> beuno: sure, let me read the scrollback
<kirkland> beuno: screen shot looks excellent to me
<beuno> fantastic
<kirkland> beuno: thanks for taking care of it
<kirkland> beuno: i look forward to it on edge ;-)
<beuno> kirkland, my pleasure. Hopefully, I can get it through review today, so it lands tomorrow-ish
<cyberix> Can I advertise project IRC channel in Launchpad?
<mohbana> hello
<mohbana> i'am slightly annoyed by launchpad, bugs are forwarded using a person's email add isntead of of say @bugs.launchpad.net
<mohbana> see, i can't use gmail's filter now
<stgraber> mohbana: just look at the XS- field in the mail
<mohbana> stgraber: huh?
<mohbana> have u tried using gmail's filters?
<stgraber> nope but I guess a lot of other Launchpad users do
<oubiwann> hey launchpadders, are you guys now using (or getting ready to use) windmill?
<beuno> oubiwann, trying to
<beuno> flacoste and mars, has been doing some work around it
<oubiwann> beuno: how is it going?
<beuno> oubiwann, I don't know the details, I do know "it has it's quirks"
<oubiwann> beuno: Jamu mentioned it from the 2 week JS training he attended in the UK
<mohbana> does anyone use gmail?
<oubiwann> beuno: and today I noticed that there is a pycon proposal for it, so I was wondering how you guys felt about it so far
<oubiwann> beuno: thanks for the notes :-)
<beuno> oubiwann, yeap, we've been looking into different test frameworks for javascript
<beuno> oubiwann, I'm sure flacoste or mars can give you some details when they're around
<beuno> oubiwann, notes?
<oubiwann> beuno: well, your comment
<oubiwann> comment(s)
<beuno> ah, :)
<mohbana> well?
<mohbana> hello
<mars> oubiwann, hello.  yes, we are getting windmill ready to use for Launchpad JavaScript testing
<oubiwann> mars: how has your experience with windmill compared to any similar experience with selenium?
<mars> oubiwann, well, we ran a smoke test with the team recently - there was a lot of smoke, mostly resulting from the Intrepid upgrade, and people figuring out how the to run their tests.
<rockstar> oubiwann, windmill > selenium.
<mars> windmill also has some quirks we are looking into
<oubiwann> rockstar: can you expand a little on that? any reasons in particular?
<oubiwann> rockstar: API usage?
<mars> for instance, re-running tests rapidly in succession blocks on "socket in use" errors, but that's because the UUID daemon steals the port after the Windmill server shuts down
<oubiwann> mars: interesting
<rockstar> oubiwann, less dependencies, less likely to fall over.  I integrated it into a Django project on my way back from London.  It was so simple.
<mars> rockstar, our patched version with the Ubuntu Mozrunner fix? or the vanilla version?
<oubiwann> mars: how public is the launchpad team about their use of windmill? is this something that can be shared? e.g., "Canonical's Launchpad team is currently using Windmill"
<rockstar> mars, vanilla.  I had to write some custom stuff, but it was relatively easy.
<oubiwann> mars: or a more couched statement like "Canonical's Launchpad team is currently considering using Windmill"
<rockstar> oubiwann, yes, the windmill guys have been talking about it.  One of them is following my dents.
<mars> rockstar, I'd love to see the custom stuff you wrote
<rockstar> mars, okay.  I'm actually not working today (I'm exhausted)
<mars> oubiwann, we're only in the early setup stages right now, integrating windmill into our own testrunners and code repositories.  But the plan is to use windmill for Launchpad JavaScript and site testing.
<oubiwann> mars: awesome
<jkakar> I'm having issues pushing a branch to Launchpad... any ideas?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/67421/
<jkakar> leonardr: ^^ Any ideas?
<leonardr> jkakar, looking
<jkakar> leonardr: Ta.
<leonardr> jkakar, the first two warning might herald the cause of the error. the server side uses a newer format than you're using. try bzr upgrade and see if that fixes it
<jkakar> leonardr: I've tried Bazaar upgrade already, but maybe not in the way you mean?
<jkakar> leonardr: I think the issue is that I'm using a rich-root repository locally and LP doesn't know how to talk to it.
<leonardr> jkakar, that's possible. let me find someone on the code team
<jkakar> leonardr: I'm trying to merge a branch from someone that uses rich-root format.  I might just generate a bundle and merge that if this is too hard. :)
<leonardr> jkakar: try doing that for now, i'll ping you if i can get someone from the code team on the line
<jkakar> leonardr: Thanks!
<abentley> jkakar: Heya.
<jkakar> abentley: Hey!
<jkakar> abentley: I'm having fun with incompatible repository formats, it seems. :)
<abentley> jkakar: I see, and I'm looking into it.
<jkakar> abentley: Thanks.
<abentley> jkakar: So it looks like your local branch uses rich-root and the launchpad copy does not.
<jkakar> abentley: The issue is that I'm merging a branch from someone that uses rich-root.
<jkakar> abentley: I've freshly branched trunk (non-rich-root), merged the branch in, and am now trying to push the changed trunk back to LP.
<jkakar> abentley: I just tried to create a bundle and merge that but get the same kind of warning: http://paste.ubuntu.com/67428/
<abentley> jkakar: In order to merge the branch in, you would have had to upgrade to rich-root.
<jkakar> abentley: Will that create any problems or should I just do it?
<jkakar> abentley: Once I upgrade to rich-root locally how will I push branches to LP?
<abentley> jkakar: I'm not making a suggestion.  I'm trying to understand what happened.
<jkakar> abentley: Ah, hehe. :)
<abentley> You say you merged this person's rich root.
<abentley> Did you upgrade in order to do that?
<jkakar> I think so.  One sec, I'll see if I can get a full transcript of what I did so I'm not making things up.
<abentley> I can't understand why pushing to lp would give that error otherwise.
<jkakar> abentley: It's a bit noisy, but here's my full session thus far: http://paste.ubuntu.com/67430/
<abentley> jkakar: bzr info -v will show your repository format.
<abentley> jkakar: It looks like you did upgrade.
<jkakar> abentley: Hmm, ~/tmp/visual is "Packs containing knits with rich root support" and ~/tmp/autoppa is "Knit repository format 4" (which is odd because I did upgrade).
<abentley> So if you want to push to lp, you need to upgrade or delete the existing lp branch.
<abentley> Knit repository format 4 is the repository format produced by "upgrade --rich-root"
<abentley> jkakar: I prefer to avoid rich-root formats wherever possible.  They're only needed for bzr-svn.
<jkakar> abentley: Ah, thanks.  I think I'll leave well enough alone for now and use a patch.  I don't really want to muck about with non-default formats.
<jkakar> abentley: Yeah, the branches I'm merging are from jelmer. :)
<abentley> jkakar: That would explain it :-)
<jkakar> abentley: Thanks for your help.
<abentley> jkakar: No problem.
<jkakar> leonardr: Also, thanks.
<leonardr> np
<MTecknology> Hey, I'm trying to have my site use launchpad to log in. I only want users in the group to log in. afaik, that just means I need to create a single user account in my site and associate all their openid's to it. I have my login form at http://pastebin.com/m74176107. It seems to work excep that openid login always fails. I took that form from fridge.ubuntu.com...
<fdr> please excuse me for the silly questions -- but where in launchpad can I see the list of bugs I've ever reported to ubuntu? I cant seem to find it. Thanks!
<popey> fdr: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ and then login there is a link on the right - "reported by me"
<fdr> under filters?
<fdr> strange, i logged in, but i don't have that
<fdr> (under  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu  )
<fdr> The only filters i have are : Open, Assigned to me, Critical, New, Unassigned, All bugs ever reported
<MTecknology> I'm guessing I'm REALLY close - I'm just missing a few things
<cody-somerville> OOPS - 1039EC107
<cody-somerville> OOPS 1039EC107
 * cody-somerville pokes bot.
<NCommander> cody-somerville, you post an oops and you get information about it?
 * NCommander has never seen that feature before
<cody-somerville> ugh
<cody-somerville> i386 PPA buildds are backed up horribly :(
<wgrant> cody-somerville: Your builds should be in front of the langpacks, I think.
<wgrant> fdr: https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/+me/+reportedbugs
<MTecknology> Anybody here know about using openid to log into a site w/o using their openid link?
<fdr> wgrant, thanks very much, it works!
<MTecknology> I know I want to pass things to https://login.launchpad.net/+decide - and I have most of the information there - idk what else to do though
<fdr> wgrant, but is there a way to reach that page from the homepage by just following links? :)
<wgrant> fdr: Click on your name in the top right, click on the bugs tab, click on "Reported bugs" or similar in the menu on the right.
<fdr> wgrant, very kind, thank you!
<wgrant> np
<cody-somerville> wgrant, https://edge.launchpad.net/~cody-somerville/+archive/+build/756209 (estimated build start is two hours)
<wgrant> cody-somerville: Ah, great.
<MTecknology> AH :'(
<MTecknology> Why does this no workie!? :'(
<kiko> MTecknology, what doesn't work? IRC is working fine for me!
<MTecknology> um?
<MTecknology> h on
<MTecknology> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/50189
<sawit> Identify sawit girlgeekdinners
<MTecknology> kiko: any ideas?
<lifeless> sawit: I think you want to tell that to 'nickserv' not a public channle
<jbalint> hello!
<lifeless> hmm, ubottu should learn about questions
<MTecknology> lol
<jbalint> i just pushed a branch, it hasnt been scanned yet after 15 minutes. normally takes 2. something slow today?
<kiko> lifeless, leave the guy alone, he has enough problemas as it is
#launchpad 2008-11-05
<poolie> i got a "sorry, there was a problem connecting"...
<spm> poolie: any page in particular?
<poolie> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/293868
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 293868 in bzr "1.9rc1 win32 standalone: file missing: libsvn_client-1.dll" [High,Fix released]
<poolie> it didn't recur
<Ursinha> poolie, a timeout oops?
<poolie> no oops
<poolie> not necessarily a big deal
<poolie> anyhow no oops visible to me
<spm> poolie: given the time? I'd suggest you nicely hit a log rotation, before the balancer noticed that the server in question was temp afk as it were.
<NCommander> When will jaunty PPAs be available?
<wgrant> When somebody clicks the magic checkbox.
<wgrant> For each arch.
<wgrant> It took a couple of weeks last time.
<wgrant> No idea why.
<NCommander> oh good :-P
 * NCommander is preparing his set of uploads for Jaunty
<synic> anything up with bzr today?
<synic> I've made some commits that aren't showing up, and haven't for a few hours
<synic> not just not showing up, but I can't access them via 'bzr pull' on another machine
<spiv> spm: ^
<synic> I push on one machine, and it says "pushed up to revision 1699", but trying to pull results in "already up-to-date", even though it's still at 1678 or so
<spm> synic: what branch?
<synic> lp:exaile
<spm> spiv: ta for the heads up :-)
<synic> let me get the exact url
<spm> synic: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/exaile is a good starting point fwiw...
<synic> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~exaile-devel/exaile/exaile-0.3.0
<spm> snap :-)
<spm> synic: interesting.... on the file system I'm seeing revision 1689
<synic> yeah, that's what I just pushed to (those numbers I gave you were made up)
<synic> great.  Now it's working.
<synic> sigh
<spm> ah - right - cool - had me a bit worried there - so the problem is more in the interface only showing 1685?
<synic> well, even a pull wasn't working, for probably 3 hours or so
<synic> I've seen the interface take a while, but the local repo wasn't updating
<spm> hmmm. unsure - spiv this might be back in your area of expertise?
<spiv> spm: is the updatebranches job (or whatever it is called?) working?
<spm> spiv: Possibly not actually - haven't had a chance to chase those down yet - ta for the reminder... looking....
<spiv> It sounds like the script that's meant to copy updates from the hosted (bzr+ssh) area to mirror (http) area.
<spiv> (It sounds like it isn't working, that is.  It helps if I write complete sentences...)
<spm> :-) I got it
<spm> spiv: yeah - 'twas busted. lost in it's own world and making a mess of ... everything.
<Hobbsee> beuno: pong.  Yes please.
<Hobbsee> beuno: looks promising, thanks.
<ianm_> is the bzr repo working?
<ianm_> someone sees "Tree is up to date at revision 745.", I see "Tree is up to date at revision 794.", website says it's at 788 hehe
<spm> ianm_: yes - *but* :-) am working on it.... keeps getting itself stuck.
<ianm_> spm: I'll try to slow down :(
<spiv> ianm_: accessing branches via sftp:// or bzr+ssh:// will be up to date, even if http:// is running behind.
<ianm_> hm ok
<ianm_> does the website use http to get the info?
<spiv> No, but the process that updates the website is the same copies the data to the http area.
<ianm_> ah
<spm> synic: ianm_: we appear to be unstuck at long last - so the changes should appear RSN.
<ianm_> spm: great!
<spm> I wasn't using a big enough hammer to smash things properly - selected the appropriate sledgie and all works again. ;-)
<ianm_> spm the plumber
<spm> heh. feels like it at times. crawling around the server sewers...
<wgrant> spiv: Doesn't one only get to see the original (read: not mirror) copy of the branch through bzr+ssh if one has launchpad.Edit on it?
<mrevell> Howdy Launchpadderoos
<Hobbsee> evening mrevell
<mrevell> hey there Hobbsee
 * wgrant wafts in.
<ahasenack> hmm, some bug listings in launchpad can't be sorted, while others can. Known bug? For example, I can't click on the columns here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client
<beuno> ahasenack, when in doubt, file a bug. Worst case scenario, it will be marked as a dupe, and more attention will be payed towards the original bug  ;)
<ahasenack> beuno: ok, thanks
<Hobbsee> ahasenack: that happens on multiple pages across launchpad.  i'm assuming it's something beuno will look into, as he looks at fixing some of the UI problems in LP
<Hobbsee> but yes, bug.
<ahasenack> Hobbsee: ok
<beuno> Hobbsee, yeah, all listings will be changed before the end of 3.0
<beuno> all will behave the same
<Hobbsee> beuno: nice :).  When's 3.0 scheduled?
<beuno> "in the best possible way"
<beuno> I think july next year
<beuno> but, many many many things will happen in between
<Hobbsee> that's true
<Hobbsee> like open sourcing launchpad, presumably.
<beuno> I think that's scheduled around the same date
<beuno> although other intermediate steps will happen in between as well
<Hobbsee> right
* bac changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: bac
<mlischke> hi there
<mlischke> just trying to get my feets wet with Launchpad first time
<mlischke> and I got a little question
<mlischke> how can I create a project group?
<mlischke> I found the project creation page and created already two projects, but I want to nest them
<soren> mlischke: You can make a project part of another project.
<soren> mlischke: See the project's details page.
<soren> http://launchpad.net/<project name>/+edit
<soren> I've never used it, though.
<mlischke> soren: I know, but this "super-project" must be a project group it seems
<mlischke> Part of:
<mlischke> (Optional) 	
<mlischke> (Chooseâ¦)
<mlischke> Super-project. In Launchpad, we can setup a special "project group" that is an overarching initiative that includes several related projects
<soren> Ok, so you probably need to ask to have one of those created.
<mlischke> I cannot specify one of my projects in the other, though.
<mlischke> seems so, unless there is a (not so obvious) way to create a project group
<mlischke> bac: ping
<bac> mlischke: hi
<mlischke> hey bac
<mlischke> can you help me with my little beginners question?
<bac> sure
<mlischke> I need to create a project group in LP which is part of anouther project group
<mlischke> But I don't find a link or setting to do that.
<bac> mlischke: You want nested project groups?
<mlischke> indeed
<bac> Unfortunately we do not support nested project groups.
<mlischke> mysql -> mysql gui tools -> several gui projects
<mlischke> hmm
<bac> For a project the size of MySQL it would certainly be nice but we just don't have the facilities right now.
<mlischke> I understand
<mlischke> any plans to add this feature in the future?
<bac> mlischke: If you'd like to file a bug against launchpad it might help that feature get implemented, though I can't make any promises.
<mlischke> Would you recommend to create a GUI tools project and add all the sub projects as separate branches or rather create individual projects?
 * LarstiQ leans towards individual projects
<bac> I would create separate projects.  Managing unrelated code as different branches or series is not the model we recommend.
<soren> bac: Eh?
<soren> bac: What do you call what MySQL already has?
<mlischke> hmm, good point, though some code is shared among the other projects
<soren> bac: and d-i? and mozilla?
<bac> soren: Those are separate projects within a single project group.
<soren> Isn't that what mlischke is askign?
<bac> No
<bac> He was asking for nested project groups.
<soren> Oh, right.
<mlischke> soren: basically yes, but I cannot create a project group gui-tools within the project group mysql
<mlischke> hence I'm looking for a workaround
<soren> Sorry, my mistake.
<mlischke> there will be 3 projects (apps) and one shared (library) project
<bac> mlischke: I think the only solution at the moment is to have lots of indidual projects under the MySQL project group.  I see there are already very many so it will just add to the existing one.
<mlischke> oh yes, it already gets crowded
<mlischke> bac, how would I drop a project I no longer need?
<bac> File a request in the Answer section of Launchpad and a LP admin will take care of it.
<mlischke> excellent, thank you
<bac> np
<verwilst> hellow!
<verwilst> i just uploaded a new package to my ppa
<verwilst> a few minutes ago
<verwilst> but nothing seems to happen ;)
<bigjools> be patient and it will
<verwilst> ah, it's there!
<verwilst> bigjools: hehe idd :D
<verwilst> i uploaded the package for intrepid
<verwilst> now i want the same package for hardy
<verwilst> so i changed intrepid to hardy in the changelog
<verwilst> and ran another debuild on it
<verwilst> but now dput doesnt want to upload it because it already exists?
<verwilst> what's the best way to upload a package for 2 distro versions?
<bigjools> verwilst: use the copy packages feature
<verwilst> bigjools: aah :) they told me in #ubuntu-motu to do it with the changelog :)
<verwilst> can i copy while it's still building?
<bigjools> no, you need to wait
<bigjools> well - try it and you'll see
<verwilst> hm, guess not :)
 * verwilst loves his ppa
<verwilst> the official packages that debian has suck really hard.. i guess i can make a bugreport asking them to import mine instead?
<verwilst> ( talking about zabbix )
<verwilst> or can i start a bugreport asking ubuntu to sync my ppa package to the universe repo?
<bigjools> you could try to get someone to sponsor an upload for you
<bigjools> or submit patches upstream
<verwilst> hm
<verwilst> how do i find a sponsor? :)
<verwilst> hm Status is published, but when i try to copy a package it says i have to wait until it's published? :)
<verwilst> or am i too anxious again? :D
<verwilst> "same version has unpublished binaries in the destination archive for Intrepid, please wait for them to be published before copying" to be exact
<pro-rsoft> Hi, if you request feedback from someone, why doesnt that someone get an email?
<beuno> pro-rsoft, how ddid you request feedback?
<pro-rsoft> just in the blueprint the button "Request Feedback"
<beuno> sinzui, ^
<sinzui> blueprints need smaking
<sinzui> pro-rsoft: I don't have an immediate answer. I don't know if it even tries to send an email
<pro-rsoft> sinzui, ok
 * sinzui think blueprints needs dismantaling to be fixed
<glade88> barry: ping
<barry> glade88: pong (but in a meeting)  what's up?
<glade88> barry: oh okay. I'll catch you later then :)
<barry> np
<verwilst> are you sure i can copy for example " zabbix - 1:1.6.1~ppa1", built for intrepid, to hardy in my ppa?
<verwilst> it keeps nagging about "The following source cannot be copied: zabbix 1:1.6.1~ppa1 in intrepid (same version already has published binaries in the destination archive)"
<kiko> verwilst, you can copy source + binaries, though the binaries are often uninstallable when going backwards
<verwilst> aaah some people don't do ~ppa1 but ~hardy1 and ~intrepid1
<verwilst> kiko: yeah i know, i just want my package to be available for intrepid and hardy
<verwilst> should i change ~ppa to ~hardy and ~intrepid?
<glade88> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-registry/+bug/286342
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286342 in launchpad-registry "Team mailing lists should have a "Contact this team" link" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<bac> glade88: i think you're right that barry partially misunderstood this bug.  thanks for pointing it out.
<barry> bac, glade88 yep, i saw the bug comment, so i'll respond there
<glade88> bac: np
<MTecknology> leonardr: you awake?
<MTecknology> Hobbsee: hi
<joshuablount> Can someone remind me how to get to a project's ppa ? /do and /gwibber are the two I need right now.
<beuno> joshuablount, you need to go to the team
<beuno> projects don't have PPAs
<beuno> "for now"
<beuno> I intend to change that ASAP
<joshuablount> beuno: I guess after clicking around previous times I just eneded up at /~team-name
<joshuablount> beuno: Thanks for the clarification :)
<beuno> joshuablount, I feel your pain  :)
<ahasenack> hi, how do I move a ticket from series N to series N+1?
<bac_afk> ahasenack: hi.  could you explain more about what you want to do
<ahasenack> bac: a ticket is being tracked in series 1.2, but it wasn't fixed in time
<ahasenack> bac: I want to move it to the 1.3 series
<ahasenack> bac: i.e., it won't be part of the 1.2 release anymore
<bac> ahasenack: Are you referring the the 1.2 milestone?
<ahasenack> bac: no, I have a series called 1.2 and another one, recently created, called 1.3
<ahasenack> bac: the LP page says "Status tracked in 1.2 " for the ticket in question,
<ahasenack> bac: and lists another line with "1.2     new" ("new" is the status)
<bac> By ticket you mean bug or answer?
<ahasenack> bac: bug
<bac> Can you paste a URL?
<ahasenack> bac: we used the bug to track a feature
<ahasenack> bac: but that feature didn't make it in time
<ahasenack> bac: it's a private bug, not sure if you can read it
<bac> ahasenack: ok, i understand your question now
<bac> ahasenack: You should be able to select 'target to release' and target it to 1.3.  It'll then be targeted to both 1.2 and 1.3.  You can then set the bugtask status for 1.2 to "Won't Fix".  You may want to try that on staging.launchpad.net to ensure you understand the workflow.
<ahasenack> bac: hmm, bugtask? Should I see that now or only when it's targeted to 1.3?
<bac> ahasenack: when you view the bug there can be multiple rows showing the bug targeted to different releases or products.  Each of those rows is a bugtask.
<ahasenack> bac: right, I'm trying it now
<ahasenack> bac: ok, I think that's it
<ahasenack> bac: thanks again
<bac> ahasenack: no problem.  glad we worked it out.
<bigon> hi
<bigon> how could I change the address where email that goes to my @ubuntu.com are forwarded?
<stdin> it goes to whatever your default LP contact email address is
<stdin> set it from https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editemails
<bigon> statik: I have selected the @ubuntu.com address as the default one
<bigon> stdin: ^
<stdin> hmm, I'm not sure how LP deals with that
<bac> hi bigon -- i don't know the answer but i'm looking for you
<andrea-bs> bigon: please read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail (Launchpad primary address)
<bigon> andrea-bs: well actually it does not cause a loop
<bac> thanks andrea-bs
<bigon> but does not use the address I want
<andrea-bs> bigon: when did you change the primary address?
<bigon> when I got it 1,5 year ago
<andrea-bs> bigon: yes, but when did you set @ubuntu.com as default address?
<bigon> andrea-bs: about a year ago i think
<ahasenack> bac: hmm, so that task for series 1.2 is marked as "won't fix", and the new one for series 1.3 is "new".
<ahasenack> bac: the 1.2 one (won't fix) is attached to a milestone, thames+1
<ahasenack> bac: the 1.3 one is attached to the milestone thames+2
<andrea-bs> bigon: oh, strange... I can't help you, so if nobody can answer you here, try on #canonical-sysadmin ;)
<andrea-bs> bigon: sorry
<ahasenack> bac: oh, forget it, I got it
<bigon> andrea-bs: no problem I will ask on the other channel
<ahasenack> bac: nothing like explaining the problem and seeing the solution right away :)
<bac> bigon:  i've asked the sysadmins what happens in that case.  i'll let you know if i get an answer.
<bac> ahasenack: great
<bigon> bac: thx
<bac> bigon: i know they have a test for an @ubuntu.com address, so i suspect they may just grab the next one.
<bac> bigon:  however i see you do not have bigon@ubuntu.com as your preferred address in LP.
<bigon> I've just changed it to test
<kiko> I don't think using an ubuntu.com address as your preferred address actually works
<kiko> salgado can confirm
<bac> kiko:  this indicates it does:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2007-September/002081.html
<salgado> kiko, I never remember how that works.  I know for sure that elmo does, though
<bac> i see that mario does have his preferred email as his ubuntu.com address.
<bac> but it seems like a strange thing to be concerned about.  just set the preferred email address in LP to the one you really want mail to go to and it should work for the ubuntu.com address.
<superm1> Hi, can someone double check a hold up on an initial translation import?  Launchpad claims that it's been imported (https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/dell-recovery/trunk/+imports), but there is an OOPS when trying to go to the link (https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/dell-recovery/trunk/+pots/dell-recovery)
<Odd_Bloke> So I'd like to get rid of the ridiculous number of 404s when bzr attempts to find .bzr/smart (or whatever it is) whenever LP mirrors branches on my server.  Will changing, for example, "http://bzr.daniel-watkins.co.uk/pqm/tag" to "http+nosmart://bzr.daniel-watkins.co.uk/pqm/tag" work?
<bac> superm1: All of the translation guys are gone right now.  Would you mind opening a bug for this issue?
<superm1> bac, sure just point me where to open it against and i'll do so
<bac> Just against the launchpad project.  It's get reassigned to the right place.
<bac> http://launchpad.net/launchpad
<superm1> alright thx
<bac> thanks
<MTecknology> Is there any way to get this access? https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/50189
<kiko> MTecknology, how much do you know about openid?
<MTecknology> kiko: some... not a whole lot
<kiko> MTecknology, okay. so I suggest you first read into it and implement a simple openid client before trying to work out the groups extension
<kiko> MTecknology, what are you trying to integrate? moin?
<MTecknology> drupal
<MTecknology> it has openid built in
<MTecknology> the fridge uses drupal and I don't see any signs that they modified it much
<kiko> MTecknology, the fridge runs a custom branch.
<kiko> hang on.
 * MTecknology sits wondering what trick or treat is coming
<kiko> MTecknology, I don't know whether that code is released or not
<MTecknology> dang, it's a trick
<MTecknology> :P
<MTecknology> kiko: I meantioned this to somebody else
<MTecknology> I wonder if I can modify the openid login page to request the users openid url and use that...
<MTecknology> I thought I posted something like that in here, but i don't see it
<kiko> MTecknology, that question doesn't make a lot of sense.
<MTecknology> which part?
<kiko> MTecknology, I think you need to a) understand a bit more about the openid protocol and implementation b) explain in laymans terms what it is you're trying to do
<MTecknology> Sorry for sounding like an idiot
<kiko> MTecknology, it's just that what you are saying doesn't make a lot of sense and I think it's because you are rushing into solutions instead of talking about your problem
<MTecknology> I want people to be able to log into my site without using the the openid url or user/pass. I would like to pass them to LP, have them login there and get passed back to my site with whatever they need to authenticate as themselves.
<kiko> MTecknology, well short answer is that there's no way of doing that -- openid requires they provide a URL to the openid provider
<MTecknology> how does the fridge do it... maybe that
<kiko> MTecknology, they need to provide an openid URL, though if you have openid 2 implemented they can just say "id.launchpad.net"
<MTecknology> 's what i'm getting confused on
<kiko> the fridge does it using openid
<kiko> or actually does it?
<MTecknology> heh....
<MTecknology> that form I have is pretty much ripped off from the fridge
<kiko> okay so the fridge does use openid, it just hardcodes authenticating against launchpad.net
<kiko> so yeah, this should be possible
<MTecknology> except that what they do required special privs
<kiko> no, I don't think so
<MTecknology> that's what i got as a response on my question
<MTecknology> that last link i posted
<MTecknology> I'll be back in a few minutes
<bac> hi bigon
<bigon> bac: hi
<bac> bigon: i have the answer about how ubuntu.com addresses are handled
<MTecknology> kiko: class was over - I really need a proxy
<bac> it is originally your preferred email address in LP.  but it takes up to 48 hours to get set up.
<bac> if you later change your preferred address to be your ubuntu.com address, then the cycle is recognized and the update is ignored, so the forwarding address remains the old preferred address
<bac> there is an outstanding bug to not allow people to set the ubuntu.com address as their preferred address in LP b/c it really makes no sense
<bigon> bac: ok thx
<kiko> MTecknology, looking into your request.
<MTecknology> kiko: check the update on that question...
<kiko> MTecknology, so.. I have good news and I have bad news.
<kiko> MTecknology, the good news is that the stuff necessary to making the plugin work for you will be finished by december
<MTecknology> It exists but isn't public?
<kiko> MTecknology, the bad news is that it's december!
<MTecknology> end of next month?
<kiko> yeah
<MTecknology> YES!!!
<MTecknology> Have a link for updates?
<MTecknology> I can handle waiting - 1 to 2 months is absolutely great. It'll give me a chance to focus on the activity of my loco rather that the technology available with it
<MTecknology> kiko: Do you have any way for me to see when that plugin becomes available?
<kiko> MTecknology, we'll probably do a public release of it, and it should go on launchpad.net/drupal itself
<MTecknology> oh - umm - I always grabbed drupal from their site - 6.6 atm
<MTecknology> so the fridge is running 5.2 atm?
<MTecknology> kiko: If that plugin is released will it probably be a 5.x only or also 6.x?
<MTecknology> I can handle switching to 5.x if that's the case but I'd prefer start working on the changes right away
<kiko> <Rinchen> kiko, it's tested against 5.x only
<MTecknology> kiko: Looks like I answered my question. 8.10 has drupal 5 so that's the version I'll need to move to for my site. Thanks for helping me out on that :)
<kiko> heh, I wish I had helped more!
<MTecknology> kiko: actually - that was an immense help
<MTecknology> kiko: You think the announcement will be on lp.net/drupal/+announcements
<kiko> MTecknology, flacoste_lunch tells me he will make a note to let you know when it's out there.
<MTecknology> kiko: awesome - thanks again. I'm really thankful for what you've done for me :)
<Lantash> I'm one of the developers of the LottaNZB project hosted on Launchpad and Bazaar 1.6.1 (u 8.10) asked me to 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance. Running 'bzr upgrade' locally resulted in "format 1 is already at the most recent format". And bzr got stuck while executing 'bzr upgrade lp:lottanzb'.  I finally upgraded Bazaar to 1.9dev. A local branch upgrade is still not possible and upgrading the one on lp.net produces the following mes
<Odd_Bloke> Lantash: You were cut off at "following mes".
<Lantash> [...] message: "[...] File exists: '/srv/bazaar.launchpad.net/push-branches/00/00/1a/c2/backup.bzr'". Does anyone know how to fix this? Thanks alot.
<kiko> MTecknology, not much, but okay :)
<Lantash> @Odd_Bloke: The branch I'm talking about: https://code.launchpad.net/~lottanzb/lottanzb/main
<Odd_Bloke> Lantash: I can't really help, was just letting you know. :)
<MTecknology> kiko: I'm just happy to know what's going on as far as that's concerned. I have more questions about its dev - but I'll wait for the release... I'll also convert my site to use that code instead
<Lantash> Never mind. There's hope that at least one out of 130 users knows the answer ;-)
<kiko> Lantash, ah, hmm, you can sftp in and delete or rename that dir, I believe. have you tried lftp?
<MTecknology> kiko: It's some good news to go against me having to write a vb program now... :P
<kiko> heh
<Lantash> @kiko: Would you mind telling me how to do this? sftp [what]? Deleting the file shouldn't be hard once I'm in the right directory :-)
<kiko> lftp into sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~<lp-id>
<Lantash> "lftp sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lottanzb
<Lantash> cd: Zugriff nicht mÃ¶glich: No such file: '/~lottanzb'" (lantash doesn't work either) Sorry for bothering you...
* bac changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: (no one on call)
<Odd_Bloke> Lantash: Have you set up an SSH key?
<kiko> Lantash, hmm, maybe sftp://<your-lp-id>@bazaar.launchpad.net/~lottanzb?
<logari81> hi, I am trying to upload a package to my ppa for the first time, but only dsc and sources files are being uploaded, no deb-package
<logari81> this is my archive
<logari81> https://launchpad.net/~logari81/+archive/
<logari81> could anyone help me?
<cprov> logari81: you only need to upload the source package to launchpad PPA, it will *build* the binaries for you.
<logari81> cprov: I get the message, that they have been built, but I see no deb packages? takes it longer to see them in the ppa?
<logari81> o yes
<logari81> I see now, it was just a matter of time, thnx anyway
<zooko> Hey, it looks like launchpad pushed some data into one of the tickets on my trac:
<cprov> logari81: np, binaries take up to 20 min to get published in the repository
<zooko> http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe/ticket/402#comment:23
<logari81> cprov: they are already there thnx
<zooko> But what is that number that launchpad pushed into my trac?
<zooko> https://launchpad.net/+search?field.text=236190
<zooko> None of the hits when I search for "236190" are related to tahoe ticket #402.
<cprov> logari81: cool, thanks for using the launchpad PPAs.
<zooko> Whereas here is a bug that *does* link to my tahoe trac: https://bugs.launchpad.net/allmydata.org/+bug/238658
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 238658 in pyopenssl "please provide binaries" [Undecided,Incomplete]
<spiv> zooko: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/pyopenssl/+bug/236190 shows a bunch of comments from your Trac
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236190 in pyopenssl "funny permission bits in pyOpenSSL-0.6.tar.gz confuse tarfile.py" [Medium,Fix released]
<spiv> zooko: the same comments as shown on the other bug, oddly
<zooko> Hm.
<zooko> Well, it does make sense that Tahoe #402 is related to launchpad #236190.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236190 in pyopenssl "funny permission bits in pyOpenSSL-0.6.tar.gz confuse tarfile.py" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236190
<zooko> Could launchpad be changed to post a hyperlink to itself instead of just a bug #?
<spiv> Well, I guess it's not so odd, in that it's a remote bug watch on that one.
<spiv> zooko: that would make sense, file a bug requesting it.
<zooko> File a bug against which package or project?
#launchpad 2008-11-06
<anka-ar> hi
<anka-ar> anyone?
<beuno> anka-ar, always
<anka-ar> beuno!
<anka-ar> justo
<anka-ar> te lo digo rapido pero lo tengo que reportar a lauchpad o no se a quien
<anka-ar> tal vez me puedas guiar
<anka-ar> ayer se me dio por googlearme
<anka-ar> despues de probar varias conbinaciones se me ocurrio lauchpad+ mi nombre
<anka-ar> andres paul
<anka-ar> y oh sorpresa!, mi nombre y mis datos aparecian en una pagina de casino!
<anka-ar> los datos son los que aparecen en launchpad
<anka-ar> hoy probe con mstreetlinux
<anka-ar> lo mismo
<anka-ar> con meisok, lo mismo
<anka-ar> y hay mas
<anka-ar> no se si tengo que reportar que estan levantando info de lauchpad, si tengo que mandar algo a algun responsable del manejo de la info o que
<beuno> anka-ar, URL?
<anka-ar> casinocom.com
<anka-ar> mira
<anka-ar> http://www.google.com.ar/search?hl=es&q=mstreet+casinocom&btnG=Buscar&meta=
<anka-ar> http://www.google.com.ar/search?hl=es&q=andres+paul+casinocom&btnG=Buscar&meta=
<anka-ar> y sigue
<anka-ar> es la info de lauchpad
<anka-ar> lauchpad*
<anka-ar> casso!
<anka-ar> launchpad
<beuno> anka-ar, lo reporto yo, no te preocupes, gracias
<anka-ar> de nada
<anka-ar> :)
<jspiro> hi all.  I would like to file a test bug that says "this is only a test".  In which project can I file it?
<Odd_Bloke> jspiro: Use staging.launchpad.net.
<Odd_Bloke> It resets every so often.
<jspiro> Odd_Bloke:  how often?
<Odd_Bloke> jspiro: I'm not sure, but it's not live data so it probably doesn't matter?
<stdin> jspiro: every 24 hours
<anka-ar> bye
<alecwh> Is there a plan for Launchpad becoming Free Software anytime soon?
<MTecknology> kiko-zzz: Wanna ping me when you wake up?
<MTecknology> thanks
<Hobbsee> alecwh: it's planned for before oscon next year, iirc.  I believe that's usually july
<alecwh> great!
<rockstar> alecwh, we are actively working on it.
<rockstar> Hobbsee is right.  It'll probably be July (definitely not later).
<alecwh> rockstar: thanks a bunch, that's fantastic to hear
* al-maisan changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: al-maisan
<persia> Against what project should I file a bug about https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA ?
<bigjools> mrevell, is that launchpad-doc? ^
<mrevell> persia: Yeah launchpad-doc, or feel free to file it against launchpad and we can change it. Alternatively, if it's a small change you can make the change yourself on the wiki
<mrevell> persia: Or we could talk about what needs changing, if that helps
<persia> Simple text change: "myapp_1.0.1" needs to be "myapp_1.0-1" and "myapp_1.0.2" needs to be "myapp_1.0-2".
<persia> As it stands now, some users are confused, and uploading packages with native versioning when it's not needed.
<Hobbsee> persia: you can edit that, i believe.
<persia> me?
 * persia tries
<Hobbsee> you have to log in first, at the top right, iirc.
<persia> Oh, cool.  I don't need to file a bug after all :)
<Hobbsee> :)
<mrevell> Thanks persia
 * mrevell ponders if we should make it clearer that the help wiki is (mostly) editable
<Hobbsee> mrevell: that depends how many people you want editing it
<persia> Having people here note "You could just fix it" is probably sufficient.  Widely advertising it may lead to confusion as much as anything.
<Hobbsee> mrevell: and whether you think they're mostly clueful.
<mrevell> Yeah, that's the dilemma
 * Hobbsee has made a few "revert crack" commits on the ubuntu wiki before
<persia> I'm somewhat amused that I could edit it though : last time I tried to edit something on help.launchpad.net, I didn't have permission (although this was some time ago).  Has it been made more publically accessible sometime in the last year or so?
<Hobbsee> persia: that was a bug.  that happened for a while, when people should have been able to edit, but couldn't.
<persia> Oh.  I thought I just wasn't cool enough :)
<arnarl> hi, who do I contact to get a neta
<arnarl> meta project?
<al-maisan> arnarl: what's a meta project?
<al-maisan> do you mean a project group?
<arnarl> sorry, I was thinking of a project that is a collection of projects
<arnarl> yeah, probably
<al-maisan> arnarl: please see https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/210
<arnarl> hmm, ok
<arnarl> I have several packages http://ztmproject.org/code/ and I sortof wanted a way to group them
<arnarl> currently I only have registered ztm.topicmaps and ztm.navigator
<arnarl> are there any better ways of doing this?
<arnarl> http://launchpad.net/ztm.topicmaps and http://launchpad.net/ztm.navigator etc...
<al-maisan> arnarl: could these be different packages of a single project?
<arnarl> yeah, they are
<al-maisan> in that case there's probably no need for a project group ..
<RinTinTigger> hey guys
<RinTinTigger> can anyone help me with my problem : (EE) intel(0): [dri] I830CheckDRIAvailable failed because of a version mismatch.
<RinTinTigger> [dri] libDRI version is 5.0.0 but version 5.4.x is needed.
<RinTinTigger> [dri] Disabling DRI.
<arnarl> but I sortof wanted the ability to do bzr lp:ztm.topicmaps and bzr lp:ztm.navigator etc...
<arnarl> Is that stil possible?
<al-maisan> RinTinTigger: please elaborate .. where do these error messages come from?
<RinTinTigger> al-maisan i tried to activate desktop effects
<RinTinTigger> which was not working
<RinTinTigger> i tried to figure out why
<RinTinTigger> and found that error
<Hobbsee> RinTinTigger: you probably want #ubuntu
<RinTinTigger> i asked there Hobbsee
<RinTinTigger> but they cant help
<Hobbsee> RinTinTigger: well, this channel *really* can't help.  It's about a web application.
<al-maisan> arnarl: let me check that.
<RinTinTigger> someone at the ubuntu-forum told me to go to the lauchpad
<arnarl> I've sortof imagined the same setup as Zope has
<Hobbsee> RinTinTigger: so, launchpad.net - that's not this channel.
<arnarl> (the project is based on Zope)
<RinTinTigger> uhm ok.... Hobbsee im sorry
<RinTinTigger> dont the have an IRC channel?
<RinTinTigger> *they
<Hobbsee> they do, and this is it, but it's for support about how to use launchpad itself, not problems with #ubuntu.  #ubuntu is for that, as is #ubuntuforums.
<RinTinTigger> ok, my bad. Thank u Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> RinTinTigger: you're welcome
<RinTinTigger> :)
<al-maisan> arnarl: a user may have multiple bazaar branches hosted on launchpad .. is that what you mean?
<arnarl> not really no
<al-maisan> each package would correspond to a bzr branch
<arnarl> at least in my head a branch is the same code, but with some functionality changed
<arnarl> these branches implement different kinds of functionality
<arnarl> like zope.component and zope.interface implement different functionality but are part of the larger Zope project
<arnarl> still they don't need to be projects of their own
<al-maisan> arnarl: I guess it's a matter of nomenclature ..
<arnarl> but I would like individual bug trackers and similar things for each package
<arnarl> yeah, probably
<al-maisan> arnarl: yeah, that's fine .. you can associate bugs with packages
<arnarl> ok, I'll try and figure out what a package is
<arnarl> thnx :-)
<arnarl> s/is/is in launchpad/
<al-maisan> arnarl: you are welcome
<persia> al-maisan, You can associate bugs with packages for arbitrary projects, or just for distros?
<Mez> NOOOOO
<Mez> you've changed the openid thing
<Mez> I cant login as me anymore :(
<al-maisan> persia: I don't know off the top of my head
<al-maisan> would need to ask
<persia> al-maisan, I could be wrong, but I thought that there were two distinct classes of entity in Malone: those which had bugs directly, and those which had bugs against packages.  Further, I thought there was some links between the set of packages known to Soyuz and the set of packages against which bugs could be tracked.
<al-maisan> persia: I'll get back to you once I know more.
<persia> Mind you, I mostly only use Malone for distro stuff, so that should be treated at best as hearsay, and quite possibly as a waste of bytes.
<persia> al-maisan, arnarl needs the info more than I :)
<al-maisan> OK
<wgrant> al-maisan, persia: There is no subdivison of a product in Launchpad.
<wgrant> Distros are all that have subdivisions.
<wgrant> And sort of projects, but not really.
<al-maisan> persia, arnarl : apparently launchpad does not support the filing of bugs against packages in PPAs yet.
<persia> wgrant, Well, the Japanese Kaizen project has bug reports on a per-package basis, but it seems related to packages known to Soyuz.
<wgrant> persia: Huh? Link?
<persia> al-maisan, What's the relation between a project and a PPA?  I don't understand the context of your comment, although I agree with the statement.
<al-maisan> persia: PPAs are tied to teams/persons
<bigjools> there is no link between projects and PPAs (yet)
<persia> al-maisan, Right, but projects aren't.
<thekorn> i,
<persia> Well, they are, but by an entirely different means.
<thekorn> hi, even :)
<persia> wgrant, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-jp-improvement
<al-maisan> arnarl was looking for the capability to file bugs against packages in a PPA ..
<thekorn> is it possible to find out who and when a tag was added to a bugreport?
<al-maisan> .. or at least that's what I understood
<wgrant> thekorn: Check bugmail archives.
<thekorn> and if not, does anyone know of a open bugreport about it
<persia> No, arnarl was looking for a means to have bugs per component of a project, and thought a meta-project was the appropriate solution.
<persia> wgrant, Note that it is considered a feature that bugs in that project are against packages known to be in Ubuntu by Soyuz.
<wgrant> persia: I don't see a package relationship there.
<al-maisan> persia: fair enough .. I pointed him to project groups
<thekorn> wgrant: ok, that does not sound like a very productive way to get this information ;)
<persia> wgrant, Hrm.  They used to be there.  Interesting,
<al-maisan> I understood from the project groups FAQ, however, that these are more applicable to *established* projects
<wgrant> thekorn: Indeed. I think everyone agrees that the activity log is pretty useless... but it seems LP devs have other priorities.
<wgrant> persia: I'm fairly sure they never could have been.
<persia> wgrant, Hrm.  Dunno.
<thekorn> wgrant: I really like the way additional information is added to a subscriber, having a tooltip for tags saying "added xx-yy-zzzz by abc" would perfectly fit my needs
<wgrant> thekorn: File a bug and pray.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: actulaly, i find it useful.
<persia> Maybe it gets an Ubuntu task once a patch is available (which is when I see most of those bugs), and I'm just confused.
<wgrant> persia: That's not unlikely.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: to go down and hunt whatever nutcase has decided to assign / subscribe ~ubuntu-core-dev to a bug, before going and yelling at them.
<thekorn> wgrant: will do
<wgrant> Hobbsee: Right. Subscribers can now also be hovered over to see who added them.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: or to find out who has done (insert whatever other E, B & W thing they've done)
<Hobbsee> wow...really?
<Hobbsee> since when?
<wgrant> Several months ago.
<wgrant> Another thing that the changelogs could mention.
<wgrant> The changelogs from late '05 and early '06 were excellent.
<Hobbsee> oh, right.  doesn't include the 'also notified' either, i note.
<Hobbsee> indeed.
<Hobbsee> that's...kinda cool
<jml> leonardr: hi, you around?
<leonardr> jml, yes
<jml> leonardr: I'm just mucking around with launchpadlib and having some problems authenticating my "just testing" example.
<leonardr> jml, are you using staging? because we know that doesn't work
<jml> leonardr: I am indeed using staging :)
<jml> leonardr: what should I use instead?
<leonardr> jml, try edge
<leonardr> i guess i should look into fixing staging
<wgrant> leonardr: Given that it makes launchpadlib fairly useless, that would be nice.
<jml> wgrant: that's a) not true and b) flat-out rude.
<wgrant> jml: I knew that was going to happen.
<wgrant> jml: How am I meant to use launchpadlib if I can't test my app on something where people won't murder me for altering live data?
<jml> wgrant: well, I'm managing for the moment :)
<wgrant> jml: How?
<wgrant> Ah, you have a launchpad.dev!
<jml> wgrant: experimenting with r/o operations -- the write ops are obvious extensions of those. any app I write isn't going to talk to staging for tests anyway, it'll work off the wadl or some sort of mock
<wgrant> jml: I don't mean formal tests.
<wgrant> I mean I want to check that my script to close off bugs meeting criteria X, Y and Z isn't going to misfire.
<jml> wgrant: sure, it's nice to have a service for end-to-end testing.
<jml> wgrant: but this is well beyond "useless"
<wgrant> jml: It means that only existing applications using launchpadlib can be safely used.
<jml> wgrant: no it doesn't.
<Hobbsee> wgrant: not necessarily.  You can still guess, and then presumably request that the admins revert a whole lot of data (or you do it yourself) if it doesn't work.  Suboptimal, though.
<Hobbsee> oh, safely used.  Right.
<wgrant> jml: It does.
<jml> wgrant: safety in software is a matter of degrees.
<wgrant> Misclosing several hundred bugs gets users angry. It needs to be safe.
<jml> wgrant: I'd rather use something with a whole lot of good unittests that hasn't been run against staging than something that's only been run against staging a couple of times.
 * persia suggests that rather than arguing about safety, developers might benefit by developing, and that leonardr is likely to render the entire debate useless soon enough.
<jml> wgrant: for a thing like that, I would want to run against staging.
<jml> wgrant: however, I stand by my first proposition.
<wgrant> launchpadlib appears to be largely useful for bug manipulations at this time.
<jml> wgrant: launchpadlib is useful without staging and you were being rude without cause.
<wgrant> We have lots of bugs.
<wgrant> Therefore a misfiring of a launchpadlib script is likely to adversely affect hundreds of bugs.
<wgrant> I don't see an awful lot of rudeness in my original statement.
<Hobbsee> jml: I don't think anyone's saying that launchpadlib is *completely* useless without staging.  What wgrant's saying is that it's rather useless to anyone who wants to test their scripts on temporary data, who doesn't have a launchpad source, or another instance to test it on.
<Hobbsee> jml: and he's also saying that people aren't wanting to guess and hope for the best, when dealing with possibly large amounts of live data.
<jml> Hobbsee: sure. A nicer way to say this would be "launchpadlib isn't that useful for me without a service to test on, so please do look into that leonardr"
<Hobbsee> jml: or a whole lot of other people too, who are also using launchpadlib, or looking into it.
 * Hobbsee suspects slight terseness would be due to the length of time staging has been out of action, too....
<jml> leonardr: is there a backwards compatibility / deprecation policy for the APIs?
<leonardr> jml: yes, backwards incompatible changes will mean we rev the version number
<leonardr> and old versions will stick around for a while before redirecting to new versions
<leonardr> but, that policy only goes into effect after the beta period ends
<jml> leonardr: *nod*
<jml> leonardr: so old versions will be available at different URLs or in response to some sort of version header or something?
<leonardr> version 1.0 will be available at /1.0/ even after 1.1 is released
<leonardr> different urls
<jml> leonardr: cool.
<jml> leonardr: last question: is HTTP 1.1 strictly necessary?
<leonardr> jml: i don't think so, assuming the server doesn't require a Host header
<persia> leonardr, Once there are stable versions tracked that way, would you expect it to be possible to continue to support whichever version of launchpad lib happens to be in any supported Ubuntu releases?
<leonardr> persia: i think that's what we decided, but i don't know for sure
<wgrant> <!-- at least 98 queries issued in 16.50 seconds -->
<wgrant> Hmmm.
<wgrant> I thought it was a bit slow.
<persia> leonardr, That's excellent to hear.  Even just support for current stable is probably a win, although a full 60 months is of course ideal.
<jml> wgrant: which page is that?
<wgrant> jml: /ubuntu
<wgrant> Er, bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<thekorn> I have a question about bug nominations: for which group of users does the nomination get auto-accepted?
<wgrant> thekorn: I believe it's the driver of the project, distro or series, or the uploaders for the distro component.
<thekorn> wgrant: ok, thanks this makes sense, I always thought it's for bug supervisours/contacts
<thekorn> which is not true
<thekorn> but driver sounds right
<wgrant> Actually, it might be uploaders for the package, but that set is identical to the package's component's set except for a couple of packages.
<jml> wgrant: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/294672 if you haven't already seen it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294672 in malone "bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu page is too slow" [Undecided,New]
<wgrant> jml: I hadn't; thanks!
<kiko> hey jml!
<kiko> jml, have a second for me? a quick question, honest :)
<Odd_Bloke> kiko: Don't ask to ask... ;)
<mwhudson> kiko: i'm here, for my sins, but battery is about to run out
<kiko> Odd_Bloke, problem is jml's shy
<kiko> mwhudson, ah, exactly the person I wanted! wanted to ask you about some pending questions and whether I can do something about them
<Odd_Bloke> kiko: Try putting a lump of sugar on your hand and holding it out with a flat palm. :D
<mwhudson> kiko: link me up, i guess
<kiko> mwhudson, vvv
<kiko> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-cscvs/+question/48685
<kiko> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+question/48252
<kiko> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+question/45488
<mwhudson> the gstreamer branch is odd, there doesn't seem to be an associated CodeImport
<mwhudson> but iirc, it was killed by the 'file-created-by-merge' problem
<mwhudson> blender, nfi
<kiko> mwhudson, can I just nuke that branch and start it off anew, or is that not going to work
<mwhudson> kiko: if it's still cvs it won't work, i'm fairly sure
<mwhudson> and dunno about the salsaga import
<kiko> the salsaga one is pending on you doing some tarball magic
<kiko> which reminds me
<mwhudson> for salsaga, i was going to do this https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/OSA/LPHowTo/CodeImportFromLocalRepo
<kiko> wow
<mwhudson> you could try to trick a losa into doing it
<kiko> mwhudson, can anybody do that?
<mwhudson> it's not the sort of thing i'm going to do when officially on leave :)
<mwhudson> kiko: you need to be able to log in to the slaves
<kiko> mwhudson, okay, gotcha.
<jml> kiko: what
<kiko> jml, mwhudson's helped me out. when are you visiting brazil?
<jml> kiko: when is Canonical sending me there? :P
<kiko> jml, RSN I hear
<jml> kiko: cool :)
<jml> kiko: then I'll be visiting Brazil real soon.
<kiko> jml, you not making it out to UDS right?
<jml> kiko: not unless it's *really* necessary. I'm speaking at OSDC in Sydney which is almost the same time.
<kiko> jml, nah, just that it would be fun to have you there
<kiko> next year maybe
<jml> kiko: it would be fun to be there :)
 * Mez cries
<jml> but I can't deprive the people of Sydney of my wisdom
<Mez> kiko: who removed the delegation on lp,net/~foo
<kiko> Mez, how about you repeat that differently for the non-phd crowd out here
<Mez> kiko: Before the last release of launchpad, when you went to a user's Launchpad page, it had headers that would say "this is an openid page, for this identity" - now it's been removed... breaking my logins :( I thought, seeing as you have access to the changelog, you might be able to tell me who I can blame :d
<kiko> flacoste, bac: did that actually change in 2.1.10?
 * Odd_Bloke used his user page for OpenID just the other day.
<Odd_Bloke> Or am I missing the point?
<Mez> Odd_Bloke: it's now changed, it actually just forwards you to the id.launchpad.net instead of allowing the ~user as an id
<juliux> hi
 * kiko pokes flacoste and bac agen
<juliux> why isn't it possible to add a junk branch for a team?
<bac> kiko:  you'll need to ask sinzui1
<kiko> sinzui1 then?
<kiko> juliux, history, I swear, it's all history
<bac> i'm looking though
<juliux> kiko: if i want to add a branch for a team it is optional to choose a project;)
<juliux> kiko: but if you try to add it a project is required
<papasmile> \p launchpad
<kiko> juliux, yeah, it's one of these oddities in our model. might be worth asking a question on a.l.n to kick off a discussion
<sinzui> Mez: Yes, we removed the ~name because it is mutable. You can change your name, and someone else can take your. That is not permanent, and could lead to scary/confusing situations when logging. So we removed it
<Mez> sinzui: ah, well - I dont like it ... I've now lost my login to around 10 sites
<Mez> sinzui: I didnt know you could actually change your name - I remember I never used to be able to (and had to get mark to do it for me!)
<kiko> Mez, yeah, but you can, and that's a bit of a nasty exploit too
<kiko> Mez, it was beta for a reason!! :)
<Mez> kiko: indeed... but... *cries*
<kiko> Mez, we hadn't considered the exploit originally, so my apologies for the short-sightedness
<kiko> we try hard but sometimes reality is hard to change
<Mez> kiko: I can see the point for changing it... but I don't like it - it'd be nice to have an option to switch it on... "I know there are security risks, but do it anyway"
<Mez> kiko: a month and  a halfs work down the drain :(
<Odd_Bloke> Could it not just be disabled when an account _is_ renamed?
<flacoste> Mez: there is another reason why we removed ~username as an openID identifier, we plan on running id.launchpad.net on a separate server for high availability reason, using launchpad.net as the identifty domain prevents that
<Mez> flacoste: how?
<flacoste> Mez: and this has always been an undocumented feature because we did intend to remove it
<Mez> flacoste: if it's just delegating to id.lp.net
<sinzui> Mez: your profile page (~/mez) does work for OpenID 2.0 I believe. Launchpad return the URL to id.launchpad.net when an auth request it made to the profile page. OpenID 1.0 must use the new URL
<flacoste> Mez: because the domain would be unavailable (during upgrade, which wouldn't happen with id.launchpad.net)
<Mez> sinzui: it doesnt get accepted as the ID though - so It comes back as the new URL, rather than allowing the old one. Which means the URL I was using is no longer valid
<sinzui> Mez: understood. I am mistaken
<Mez> twas a nasty surprise...
<soren> Mez: I'm surprised the sites you're having trouble with don't provide alternative means for logging in.
<Mez> soren: openid only
<flacoste> Mez: i am very sorry for the inconvenience, but where did you get the idea of using ~Mez as your openid identifier, it's not documented anywhere
<kiko> flacoste, it's kinda the natural thing and most beautiful fwiw
<flacoste> well
<flacoste> we have pages explaining how to use the beta OpenID service, and none of them mention that one
<kiko> kinda not my point :)
<Mez> flacoste: I assumed... generally, an openid is "a web page that identifies a user"
<flacoste> and we had a bug open saying that this was to be removed
<Mez> which would be my LP page....
<Mez> not some randomly generated URL
<kiko> flacoste, still, you gotta understand that people don't always walk on the sidewalk..
<flacoste> hey, i'm all for that, Montreal is the capital of jay-walkers
<flacoste> but still, we kind of look before crossing the streets
<Mez> infact https://id.launchpad.net/793/mez - doesnt even identify me.
<Mez> It is not a web identity
<flacoste> that's not how OpenID work btw
<kiko> flacoste, well, it does take a URL..
<Mez> flacoste: technically, no - but on a social aspect... yes.
<Mez> an openid *should* be something that is an identity for a user, say their blog, their facebook page, something like that. A random URL is Not an identiy
<Mez> "OpenID takes advantage of already existing internet technology (URI, HTTP, SSL, Diffie-Hellman) and realizes that people are already creating identities for themselves whether it be at their blog, photostream, profile page, etc. With OpenID you can easily transform one of these existing URIs into an account which can be used at sites which support OpenID logins."
<Mez> I dont see the URL given as an identity for me :(
<flacoste> we can easily fix that by redirecting to your launchpad profile, i'll file a bug about this
<kiko-afk> cool
<Mez> it's still not an identity IMO - just a random URL
 * Mez starts sending begging emails
<juliux> kiko-afk: now i have a very good solution :)
<juliux> kiko-afk: so how it is possible to use lp branches without having a project? or is it in your interest that we register for everything a project?
<gmb> juliux: If you push the branch to ~$you/+junk it won't be associated with any project.
<gmb> e.g. bzr push lp:~juliux/+junk/some-branch
<kiko-afk> juliux, well.. that's what junk branches are for!
<juliux> gmb: we want to use it for a team
<gmb> juliux: bzr push lp:~team-name/+junk should work, IIRC.
<juliux> gmb: thanks
<gmb> np
<thekorn_> gmb, hmm I get  """ bzr: ERROR: Generic bzr smart protocol error: Permission denied: "Cannot create team-owned junk branches." """
<gmb> thekorn_, juliux, so I guess IDNRC. Hmm.
<gmb> That's a pain. I wonder why we do that.
<gmb> In that case I'm not sure there's a nice way to do what you want to do.
<thekorn_> juliux, create a project called "junk" ;)
<gmb> Hang on, I'll ask someone who'll  know more than me..
<gmb> (Not hard)
<thekorn_> hehe, ok
<juliux> thekorn_: but then i have to ask everybody who created some stuff for our locoteam about the license this stuff is;)
<juliux> thekorn_: and doing this for stuff from three years need a lot of time
<gmb> thekorn_, juliux: Okay, the person I was going to ask doesn't seem to be available atm. Best to file a question at http://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar; someone from the Code team will help you.
<thekorn_> gmb, thanks gmb
<juliux> thekorn_: you or i?
<thekorn_> juliux, mach du mal
<thekorn_> ups wrong window
<juliux> thekorn_: hehe
* al-maisan changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Need help? Community help contact: nobody
<dilinger> hi, how do i get myself off a bug notification list?
<dilinger> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-177/+bug/294527
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 294527 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-177 "Conflict between nvidia-glx and openafs-modules kernel module" [Undecided,New]
<dilinger> i was automatically added to that bug because i one did openafs stuff, but i don't work it it anymore.. and i see no way to unsubscribe myself
<kiko-fud> fucking impatient users
<persia> Well, if they don't want help, they don't get any.  Seems simple, although I would like a plugin for my IRC client to remove comments by anyone who joins a channel, says something ,and departs without anyone else commenting.  It's usually spam or impatience.
<kiko> man needs lunch you know :)
<MTecknology> sabdfl: Hi
<MTecknology> sabdfl: Just wanted to say something to you at some point in my life. ;)
<persia> I'm trying to link bug #249815 to Debian bug #504200.  Malone is telling me "u'Package recite not published in Debian'"  Any suggestions?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 249815 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Qtractor is an Audio/MIDI multi-track sequencer" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249815
<ubottu> Debian bug 504200 in recite "segmentation violation when running recite" [Grave,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/504200
<persia> Err, bug #294815
<ubottu> Bug 294815 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/294815 is private
<yarko> I'm getting an error on launchpad I don't understand - medium has reached its concurrent request limit.  .... anyone know what this is? anything _I_ can do about it?
<newz2000> Hi, in case anyone else has fought with filtering launchpad bug email in gmail: www.bearfruit.org/blog/2008/11/06/gmail-filters-for-launchpad-bug-email
<RainCT> Hi
<RainCT> LP is rejecting my uploads with   "Could not find person '<launchpad-id>'".  Any idea what the problem could be?
<lifeless> package uploads?
<RainCT> lifeless: yep
<lifeless> RainCT: signed the changes files?
<RainCT> lifeless: if it may have anything to do with it: my GPG key expired recently, but I changed the expiration date and send it to keyserver.ubuntu.com again
<RainCT> lifeless: of course :)
<lifeless> check your key in the lp ui
<lifeless> how recently did it expire?
<RainCT> lifeless: just a few days ago
<lifeless> right
<lifeless> thats probably it
<lifeless> each appserver builds a little cache of keys (because it uses gpg, and thats what gpg does)
<lifeless> I'm fairly sure it doesn't poll the key server on every operation
<lifeless> uhm
<lifeless> file a question on this
<RainCT> lifeless: Okay, thanks
<lifeless> we need a losa to login to the app servers and refresh your key (and clearly there is an associated bug that an expired key should trigger a check on the keyserver or something)
<RainCT> lifeless: against which project should I file it, launchpad or soyuz?
<lifeless> launchpad
<RainCT> Done. Thx.
<lifeless> spm: ^
<spm> lifeless: ta, adding to todo list. :-)
<fta> no eta for PPA /w jaunty ?
<persia> fta, None yet declared.
<fta> persia, ok, thanks
#launchpad 2008-11-07
<NCommander> Does LP accept orig.tar.bz2's yet?
<thumper> NCommander: for what?
<NCommander> thumper, uploads of orig.tar.bz2
<thumper> NCommander: ah, sorry not sure
<wgrant> NCommander: I don't think so.
<thekorn> hi,
<thekorn> is it possible to create a new user on staging.lp.net?
<thekorn> or won't this work because the registration email will not be sent
<wgrant> thekorn: It won't work, for that reason.
<thekorn> wgrant, hmm that's what I suspected, how unfortunate
<wgrant> Indeed.
<wgrant> thekorn: Why do you need it?\
<thekorn> wgrant, I'm about to add a function to py-lp-bugs to add/accept/decline bug nominations,
<thekorn> and I need to test the case of accepting a nomination,
<thekorn> as on all projects where I'm allowed to accept a nomination, my nomination is auto-accepted
<thekorn> so my idea was to create another user on staging
<wgrant> thekorn: Want me to nominate some stuff on staging for you, in that case?
<thekorn> wgrant, sounds like a good plan, but I'm not there yet,
 * wgrant wasn't aware that nominations were exposed through the API yet.
<thekorn> thanks, will come back to you (or others) when I have some usable code,
<thekorn> no not the api, good old python-launchpad-bugs ;)
<wgrant> Ah, the lovely screenscraping backend?
<wgrant> I had hoped that could be killed soon.
 * thekorn too
<wgrant> thekorn: Is the API still much slower?
<thekorn> wgrant, no the API is great, and fast
<thekorn> but lacking some (important) functionallity
<wgrant> Hmm, I remember originally it was substantially slower.
<thekorn> especially regarding bugs
<thekorn> yes, but this is fixed in many cases
<wgrant> Ah, excellent.
<intellectronica> thekorn: what functionality is on top of your priority list?
<intellectronica> today i'm landing CVE management APIs, b.t.w
<wgrant> intellectronica: Yay, finally! You rock.
<thekorn> intellectronica, hi, managing bug nominations and searching users buglists
<thekorn> this are two things I know of why people are still using py-lp-bugs
<intellectronica> thekorn: cool. i think nominations should be ready this cycle. hopefully user task lists searches too
<thekorn> great, super
<thekorn> leonardr, hi, I've got one question about authorize-token, what does the access level "read non-private data" mean?
<thekorn> and especially,
<thekorn> let's say I'm hiding the time_zone/map in the web UI,
<thekorn> will this also mean that I cannot access me.time_zone with launchpadlib
<leonardr> thekorn: in general you will only be able to see information you can see when logged in
<leonardr> er, when _not_ logged in
<leonardr> so if it's hidden, me.time_zone will probably show up as redacted
<leonardr> there's a tag: value for redacted which you can check
<thekorn> ok, that's what I expected,
<thekorn> but me.time_zone shows "europe/Berlin" when using "read non-private data"
<thekorn> and it's hidden on my profile
<leonardr> in that case the code to hide that data is probably in the view and not in the data model
<leonardr> would you file a bug for that? (in launchpad-foundations)
<thekorn> leonardr, yes will do
<MagicFab> flacoste, hey
<MagicFab> I am wondering, how could this bug be filed in 2002: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/265736
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 265736 in mailman "QRUNNER is fucking the machine perform.." [Low,New]
<flacoste> MagicFab: bug import
<flacoste> altough the bug number seems kind of high for a bug import
<flacoste> barry: any ideas ^^^
<MagicFab> and yes I was curious what bug reports would "offensive" :)
<barry> that was likely imported from SF
<flacoste> barry: with such a high bug number?
<flacoste> barry: you ran the import a while ago, no?
<flacoste> o
<flacoste> 265 isn't that high
<barry> gmb did the import before epic
<flacoste> ah ok
<flacoste> it's recent then
<barry> yep, and see the sf608524 tag.  that points to the original SF bug number
<jcastro> barry: ~30 minutes until your session!
<barry> jcastro: oh!  i almost forgot
<jcastro> barry: no worries, that's what I'm here for.
 * barry wishes he was actually prepared ;)
<kattollikisd> Hello
<kattollikisd> someone here? :S
<kattollikisd> I have a problems with requesting cd of ubuntu on my account :S
<kattollikisd> can someone help me?
<kiko> kattollikisd, what's the problem?
<kattollikisd> I resqueting cd for ubuntu ... and now I see this
<kattollikisd> ups sorry
<kattollikisd> I gonna poste it in a paste bin
<kiko> kattollikisd, on shipit.ubuntu.com?
<kattollikisd> http://paste.ubuntu.com/68973/
<kattollikisd> kiko, yes
<kattollikisd> do you know how to erase all that list so then I start in 0 to resquest cd over agiang
<kattollikisd> ?
<kiko-afk> kattollikisd, I don't understand the problem.
<kiko-afk> kattollikisd, is the problem that your requests are being denied?
<kattollikisd> yes kiko-afk, that the problem, sorry for my english... I don' t know to much about the lenguage :S
<kattollikisd> kiko-afk, that' s the problem :S
<kattollikisd> kiko-afk ?
<Laney> Is there a way to list all {supported,current,development} distroseries using the LP API?
<kiko-afk> kattollikisd, what's your launchpad ID?
<kattollikisd> kiko-afk, Kattollikisd
<kiko-afk> kattollikisd, I'll check with somebody why your CDs are being rejected. how many are you requesting?
<kattollikisd> I haven' t request CD for the 8.10, but I request like 5 o 6 cd of the 8.04 ( of then... I had just 2 )
<kattollikisd> I requested 5 or 6 cd but not as a special request.
<kiko-afk> kattollikisd, I wonder why your request was declined then. odd.
<kattollikisd> the last special request that I did was at the time of the 7.10
<kattollikisd> :(
<kiko-afk> let's figure this out
<kattollikisd> ok :S
<kiko-afk> kattollikisd, make a new request.
<kiko-afk> on shipit.ubuntu.com
<kiko-afk> hmm
<bac> Laney: it doesn't look like you can.  :(
<kiko-afk> actually, I found it
<gmb> quit
<gmb> Urr.
<Laney> bac: That was my conclusion too
<kiko-afk> kattollikisd, I'll look into this on monday when there's somebody back in the office ok?
<Laney> anyone: What project do I file bugs against for the LP API?
<kiko-afk> Laney, launchpad
<Laney> got it
<bac> Laney: yes, please open a bug.  that'll get the ball rolling.
<LaserJock> can Launchpad host shared repos?
<Laney> bac: Bug #295338
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295338 in launchpad "Export API functions to get current distroseries for a distribution" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295338
<kattollikisd> kiko-afk, ok... so monday I have to be here right?
<kiko-afk> kattollikisd, I'll sort it out, you don't have to be around
<kattollikisd> ohhh... thanks kiko-afk, a lot of thanks you
<kiko-afk> no worries
<kattollikisd> ok byebye
<kattollikisd> ohh wait :P
<kattollikisd> sorry I.. I just have another question
<kattollikisd> If I create anocher account for Kubuntu.. If I put the same address that I have in the ID kattollikisd
<kattollikisd> Their cd will arrive ?
<kattollikisd> at the same address?
<persia> LaserJock, set up a branch to which multiple people can write.  Instruct users to use it as a bound branch (or is that not what you meant?)
<LaserJock> persia: no, I meant, I have a shared repo, can I push that to LP or not?
<persia> Oh.  That's not a question for wihch I know a workaround :)
<LaserJock> I've built some branches for packaging
<LaserJock> and they're in a shared repo so I'm trying to figure out what I want to end up pushing
<kattollikisd> If I create anocher account for Kubuntu.. If I put the same address that I have in another Id of the Launchpad, those Cd that I request will arrive? ( The other ID launchpad is mine, is for Ubuntu )
<persia> kattollikisd, Best practice is to have only one launchpad account per person.
<kattollikisd> persia, oh thanks
<Hobbsee> Error ID: OOPS-1042EB133
<Hobbsee> Error ID: OOPS-1042EC97
 * Hobbsee sighs.
<Hobbsee> This was working.  You haven't rolled out since the ubuntu release.  Why is it broken again now?
<Hobbsee> OOPS-1042G3321 is the corresponding production oops.
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1042G3321
<Hobbsee> Error ID: OOPS-1042H3298
<ubottu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/1042H3298
<geser> Hobbsee: it's weekend, isn't that enough for LP to break?
<Hobbsee> geser: I can't answer that one, without getting yelled at by kiko-afk and such, i'm afraid.
<wgrant> LaserJock: You don't push repos. You push branches.
<LaserJock> wgrant: right, but is there a way to create repo structure on LP?
<wgrant> LaserJock: If pushing each branch completely is too slow, you might want to upgrade to bzr 1.6 and use stacking.
<wgrant> No, that doesn't make sense.
<LaserJock> hmm
<LaserJock> so I've got some branches for a project
<LaserJock> but I didn't feel like pushing everything
<wgrant> Then don't push all of them.
<LaserJock> heh
<LaserJock> I meant, I'm sort of trying to figure out if I can/should push the whole lot or not
<wgrant> Hmm, what do shared repositories have to do with that?
<LaserJock> I assumed it would be easier to push if it were to a shared repo
<wgrant> Actually, I think there is a plugin that will let you push all branches in a repo.
<wgrant> But you can't push the repo itself.
<LaserJock> plus it organizes everything nicely
<wgrant> And it'll be slow unless you're next to the DC or use stacked branches.
<wgrant> How does it organise things nicely? ~mantha/someproject/* isn't nice enough?
<LaserJock> no
<LaserJock> because I want to split them further
<wgrant> Oh.
<LaserJock> and have debian and ubuntu repos
<wgrant> Shouldn't you just have debian and ubuntu branches?
<LaserJock> no, I also have upstream branches for each
<persia> Why do you need separate upstream branches?
<LaserJock> so I have debian, debian-upstream, ubuntu, ubuntu-upstream
<persia> Wouldn't just upstream, debian, ubuntu work?
<LaserJock> because it's not the same
<LaserJock> debian and Ubuntu don't always share upstreams
<persia> Not the same upstream, or not the same revision?
<LaserJock> umm, it's the same upstream, but different "revisions"
<LaserJock> where revision is a basically a tarball import
<persia> Right, so just have the debian and ubuntu branches branch from different revisions.
<wgrant> In mplayer we have upstream, ubuntu and ubuntu-upstream.
<persia> wgrant, Why?
<wgrant> There's no right way to do this, because the way it's done now is wrong.
 * persia thought that was what vcs-imports was supposed to do.
<wgrant> ie. the whole idea is wrong.
<wgrant> persia: vcs-imports manages the upstream branch.
<wgrant> IIRC
<LaserJock> I'm not doing anything with a vcs-import
<wgrant> But we're not derived from the upstream branch; we're derived from the tarball.
<wgrant> Which is why bzr packaging currently sucks.
<persia> RIght, and then one merges the upstream into the packaging branch every once in a while, right?
<persia> Isn't that just a matter of making sure the tarball matches a given revision?
<wgrant> The "process" (It has only been done a couple of times) is grab a new tarball, strip the code out of ubuntu-upstream, put the new code in, and merge the change into ubuntu.
<wgrant> It would be lovely to be able to do that from the upstream branch itself, but I think mplayer might do Bad Things.
<persia> Ugh.  That's the worst mix of VCS packaging and traditional packaging I've ever heard described.
<wgrant> Yep.
<wgrant> I wasn't entirely pleased when I discovered it... but it was apparently one of the earlier bzr packaging attempts.
<LaserJock> so if I were to do a vcs import I'd then have 5 branches :/
<wgrant> Having *-upstream or upstream-* branches is probably a bug.
<LaserJock> perhaps it's better to just ditch it all and create an ubuntu branch that's debian/ only
<wgrant> I think it's better to wait until james_w fixes the world.
<LaserJock> well, I don't exactly have that time very well
<LaserJock> I'm trying to get some collaborative packaging going
<LaserJock> and I'm not waiting for another release to get that going
<persia> LaserJock, The only VCS packaging system I've seen I liked was to have a vcs-imports branch for upstream, from which were derived distro branches based on a given revision.
<LaserJock> persia: umm, what if there is not upstream VCS?
<wgrant> persia: That's how it should be.
<LaserJock> *no
<wgrant> LaserJock: Then upstream needs to be shot!
<persia> Doing debian/ only in VCS is a somewhat limiting compromise, but also works.
<persia> Anything else is painful.
<wgrant> Who broke the team pages?
<LaserJock> the problem is that I want to work with Debian
<LaserJock> and if I can upstream
<LaserJock> but there's really no good way to do it via vcs
<persia> If there *really* isn't an upstream VCS, you can fake one by unrolling tarballs, but do it sequentially, and pretend it's a pristine upstream VCS.
<LaserJock> for one of the projects there is no VCS at all
<wgrant> persia: Does https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers have a black menu of death?
<wgrant> LaserJock: Uhm, wow... that's not good.
<LaserJock> wgrant: heh, and it's a Main package but I won't go there too much since I put it in
<persia> "black menu of death"?  No, it has a menu on the left.
<wgrant> persia: OK, how odd.
<wgrant> I thought team pages had a black menu last release.
<wgrant> But it seems that only the PPA does.
<wgrant> How very confusing.
<wgrant> LaserJock: Eww.
<LaserJock> persia: you have a menu on the left? I have one on the right
<persia> The UI seems to be undergoing a transition that exposes how much of the modularity is encapsulated on a per-display basis.
 * persia has apparently enabled the "mirror" function in the text above
<wgrant> persia: But this has been going on since before 2.0 was released :(
<wgrant> And I hear it's all going for another revamp for 3.0. Yay.
<wgrant> Completely redesign LP's UI every year for three years. Good policy.
<persia> wgrant, Yes.  There are a lot of display views.  I'd like a consistent UI, but I'm not sure that having one is related to version numbers.  I'm looking forward to the mockups beuno is likely to bring to UDS.
<persia> From what I understand, consistency and sensible modularity are key items of the plan.
<wgrant> That would be good.
<LaserJock> persia: do you have any good ideas if I were to have a vcs-import and then want to import the Debian packages?
<wgrant> But it's getting a bit silly, having each UI transition only partially completed before remaining bits are rejected because of the next UI redesign.
<wgrant> LaserJock: You might want to discuss this with james_w, I think.
<LaserJock> wgrant: that's how I got where I am ;-)
<wgrant> Oh dear.
<LaserJock> he gave me code to import everything and now I don't know how to do anything with the branches I got
<LaserJock> I've got a few hundred MBs of bzr branches here that I don't know what to do with
<persia> LaserJock, Well, what I did last time I did that was to collect a set of debdiffs for the last several versions in Debian, and construct a derived branch with a bit of history.  If Debian already has stuff in a VCS, you could create a vcs-importer for Debian as well.
<LaserJock> none of the projects have vcs in Debian
<LaserJock> so that's the hard part
<persia> Then create a stub branch of the last few uploads, and do the right thing in the future.
<LaserJock> I don't have any clue of where Debian is derived from
<persia> If you want this to be not so labour-intensive, wait for james_w to VCS the world.
<wgrant> That would be my suggestion too.
<wgrant> It's not going to be an easy transition, but it will be so much better when it's all done.
<wgrant> Especially if Debian adopts bzr, but that's never going to happen.
<LaserJock> well, I guess until then I can just put ubuntu into VCS
<persia> wgrant, Why won't it be an easy transition?  The last several years of upload revision diffs are available to construct stub branches, and with automation, it ought be mostly invisible.
<LaserJock> so we do a vcs-import where possible and branch off ubuntu branches
<wgrant> persia: I guess I'm just a bit pessimistic because of my previous experiences with bzr packaging.
<persia> LaserJock, For Ubuntu-local, that would be the right model.
<LaserJock> I can then just manually update the ubuntu branch when Debian uploads something new
<persia> For upstream->Debian->Ubuntu, we'd want a Debian branch, which might be vcs-import, and might be constructed, depending on the Debian maintenance.  Ideally, this can be determined from debian/control.
<persia> When Debian updates, apply the Debian changes to the Debian branch, and then merge those changes into the Ubuntu branch.
<LaserJock> sure, if only things worked that way ;-)
<LaserJock> I'd guess maybe 5 of the ~20 packages I'm trying to do use vcs's in Debian
<persia> wgrant, I was incredibly pessimistic until I saw what cjwatson was doing with the d-i stuff.  Now I'm of a mixed mind : I still don't like bzr much, but with well organised branches and some automation, it's not that bad (although I avoid bzr bd : I've never had it do the right thing).
<persia> LaserJock, So?  MoM generates debdiffs for each Debian upload.  Just apply the debdiiff in the branch, and commit.
<persia> If Debian pulls a new upstream, merge against the new upstream first, and only apply the diff of the packaging changes.
<persia> (and commit inbetween).
<wgrant> persia: Why don't you like bzr?
<persia> Mind you, I think your life would be easier if you just did it the traditional way until there is better infrastructure.
<LaserJock> persia: how would I know what upstream to merge against. In fact I'm not sure I can do that
<persia> wgrant, From what I understand, mostly because I'm not running a new enough version to include the latest speed improvements, and because I don't understand how to use shelve very well.
<LaserJock> some upstreams don't have a revision that corresponds exactly to the tarball
<wgrant> shelve is awesome
<wgrant> LaserJock: Exactly the problem that I've found.
<wgrant> The constant upgrades are somewhat troublesome, too.
<LaserJock> like a lot of upstreams I know run autogen.sh between the VCS and tarball
<persia> Indeed.  The concept behind shelve is why I still work by flipping around patches, and patchutils is my core set of tools.
<wgrant> It's particularly surprising giving that they are coming from the same company that enforces Ubuntu release structures.
<persia> wgrant, Hrm?  bzr releases on a schedule doesn't it?  while things get deprecated, little seems to break.  It adds to the list of reasons I don't like bzr, but I'm not sure how it's dissimilar to how Ubuntu is released.
<wgrant> It's not too dissimilar from how Ubuntu is released.
<wgrant> It's just completely incompatible with it.
<wgrant> You're told you should always be running $LATEST_BZR_VERSION to fix $CRIPPLING_SPEED_ISSUE.
<persia> Well, unless you're in London.
<LaserJock> well, I'm pretty sure I'd use for packaging svn if LP supported it :-)
<wgrant> svn now has merge tracking, so it's not such an awful choice.
<LaserJock> svn is just so much simpler
<wgrant> Except you probably can't do cross-repo merging.
<persia> LaserJock, is svn better than bzr?  Previously, I'd claim that bzr merge made it superior.  Now, I'll claim that bzr shelve makes it superior (even though I still don't understand shelve as well as I'd like)
<wgrant> I fail to see how svn is simpler.
<LaserJock> you don't have to think about formats, repos, merges, blah blah
<persia> Yes you do, they just change less frequently.
<LaserJock> I couldn't care less about merges, etc.
<LaserJock> I just want revision control that's simple
<LaserJock> bzr is nothing but trouble for me, for what I do
<LaserJock> I can see how it's awesome for some things
<persia> You want to do VCS packaging, and you couldn't care less about merges?  That's the *reason* to do VCS packaging.  Otherwise, just VCS debian/ and ignore the rest.
<LaserJock> exactly
<LaserJock> I just want debian/ versioned
<persia> Then you only need one branch.  The "ubuntu" branch.
<LaserJock> yep
<persia> it contains debian/
<persia> Throw away the rest of it.
<LaserJock> like I said, if LP supported svn I'd do just that
<LaserJock> but since it doesn't I end up getting peer-pressured into all the merge stuff, etc. ;-)
<wgrant> I don't see how svn is simpler than bzr for svn-like workflows.
<persia> Mind you, this gives you almost none of the advantages of VCS packaging, and nearly all the disadvantages.  Only worth it if you expect to have many people touching the package, and have some reason to delay between uploads.
<LaserJock> wgrant: because people laugh at you when you do svn-like workflows
<persia> Given that there's no unstable->testing delay in Ubuntu, seems fairly pointless to me.
<persia> Anyway, shouldn't we be having this conversation in -motu ?
<wgrant> Lots of people use bzr just like svn.
<wgrant> Probably.
<wgrant> Or even -devel.
<persia> -devel probably makes more sense.
<LaserJock> well, my original questions were about LP
<LaserJock> but yeah, we've floated more into packaging
<persia> Indeed :)
<Rafik> Hello people. Why "Registry Administrators" (~registry) is member of the "Ubuntu Tunisian Team" (ubuntu-tn-user) ? That's making sabdfl member of the tunisian team and it's making some noise ^^
<Rafik> ~ubuntu-tn-users, sorry
<Rafik> be back tomorrow, gn
#launchpad 2008-11-08
<aboSamoor> I was using google code,for my personal code. Some homeworks and shared work. but it seems that my account in google code is having a bug. I am asking if it is legal to use launchpad for such thing ?
<mthaddon> aboSamoor, does your code use one of the approved open source licenses?
<aboSamoor> mthaddon, it was under GPLv3 in code.google
<mthaddon> aboSamoor, in that case, absolutely
<aboSamoor> mthaddon, I want to be sure that I am not violating any policy. Because collabnet hosting has a policy to support only large and not personal code
<mthaddon> aboSamoor, I don't believe there's any such distinction in Launchpad - that said, it's designed for project based setup, so if you have lots of different bits that you want to have in different source trees, it might not work quite as nicely as it could
<lifeless> aboSamoor: we like users
<aboSamoor> mthaddon, any idea about how to start ?
<mthaddon> aboSamoor, https://launchpad.net/+tour
<aboSamoor> Is there a possibility to transfer my code from svn to bzr ?
<mthaddon> aboSamoor, absolutely - there's a bzr-svn plugin that will help
<mthaddon> http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrForeignBranches/Subversion
<persia> aboSamoor, Unless you have a special reason to do otherwise, I'd recommend putting that sort of thing in a personal +junk project on an launchpad account, rather than creating a project.
<persia> Once something grows large enough to need bug tracking, collaboration, etc. then it might make sense to have a project.
<lifeless> aboSamoor: the same conditions for hosting apply, but it doesn't show as a formal project
<aboSamoor> persia, Yes this is better for me. I don't want a project just code hosting is enough. However, what do you mean by personal + junk ?
<aboSamoor> persia, I already have launchpad account
<persia> You can push bzr branches to the special +junk project, which shows them in your personal branch list, but doesn't associate them with any project.  There's surely some docs at help.launchpad.net about it.
<lifeless> aboSamoor: e.g. lp:~aboSammor/+junk/study
<aboSamoor> persia, lifeless, I found this https://help.launchpad.net/Code/PersonalBranches
<persia> That's precisely it.
<aboSamoor> while I am trying to add svn folders to bzr using 'bzr add', I got this message "bzr: ERROR: Permission denied: ".": PROPFIND request failed on '/svn/trunk'"
<aboSamoor> should I have to delete .svn folders or use a different command to make my first commit to bzr branch ?
<persia> You probably don't want .svn to be .bzr managed.
<lifeless> persia: you're confused :P
<persia> #bzr might be a better resource to understand how to migrate (although a number of those people are here)
<lifeless> aboSamoor: bzr is trying to talk to your svn server
<persia> lifeless, Always.
<lifeless> aboSamoor: because bzr supports svn
<lifeless> aboSamoor: but google code's svn servers are not full svn servers
<lifeless> aboSamoor: two suggestions:
<lifeless> 1) use bzr branch svn://code.google.com/<whatever> my-bzr-branch
<lifeless> 2) use svn export to export your tree, then add it to bzr
<lifeless> choose one of these:)
<wgrant> There's no easy way to use cscvs oneself, is there?
<lifeless> fsvo easy
<aboSamoor> is there anyway to replace my accounts in ubuntu forums, brainstorm.ubuntu by launchpad openID ?
<persia> Not currently.  brainstorm will probably happen before the forums.
<aboSamoor> lifeless, I got this description in my new branch  	Repository format: Packs containing knits without subtree support
<aboSamoor> is there any problem ?
<maco> using https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+filebug i can't file a bug.  the "continue" button doesn't do anything.  anyone else noticed that?
<aboSamoor> I think I made it correctly. lifeless, persia, mthaddon I appreciate your help. Thank you very much
<wgrant> maco: Works for me. Does it not even reload the page?
<lifeless> abentley: thats fine
<lifeless> abentley: sorry, wrong nick
<Aron_> I wonder how to use ppa on lanchpad,could someone help me?
<Aron_> ziroday: here I am
<Hobbsee> Aron_: would help if you asked a question, though
<Aron_> I want to know how to use launchpad ppa
<Aron_> I have created a ppa in my account on the web page
<Hobbsee> !ppa
<ubottu> With Launchpad's Personal Package Archives (PPA), you can build and publish binary Ubuntu packages for multiple architectures simply by uploading an Ubuntu source package to Launchpad. See https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart.
<Hobbsee> Aron_: did you see ^
<Aron_> sorry,leaved just now and back here
<Aron_> Hobbsee: I have read it before
<Aron_> but still something fuzzy
<Aron_> Hobbsee: should I put the files in a particular directory?
<Hobbsee> Aron_: which files?
<Aron_> .changes,.dsc,.diff.gz and orig.tar.gz
<Hobbsee> all except the last will get generated for you, from your directory with the source in it
<Hobbsee> the .orig.tar.gz should be in the directory above the unpacked source
<Hobbsee> apart from that, it doesn't matter.
<Hobbsee> (the others will appear in the directory above the unpacked source)
<Aron_> Hobbsee: got it ,big thanks to you
<Hobbsee> Aron_: you're welcome!
<joumetal> Would it be nice to remove obsolete tags from launchpad. For example edgyeft tag is not very useful anymore.
<cody-somerville> If I was to add support to dput to have a special URI for PPAs, would folks prefer lp:<ppa-id> or ppa:<ppa-id>?
<andrea-bs> Can non-team members post to mailing lists?
<BoomShaka> Hi, can someone explain where i upload my SSH key in launchpad?
<BoomShaka> nvm, found it :)
<BoomShaka> arrgh. it keeps telling me i am using an invalid public key...
<BoomShaka> anyone know what could be wrong?
<LarstiQ> BoomShaka: formatting?
<BoomShaka> LarstiQ, no worries, I figured it out. thanks
<jfcgauss_> how do i add packages to my PPA? how do i set my PPA (for instance i want to target hardy but i see
<jfcgauss_> apt sources.list entries:
<jfcgauss_> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jfcgauss/ubuntu jaunty main
<jfcgauss_> under my PPA.
<Peng_> No 300,000 bug sweepstakes? :(
<LarstiQ> Peng_: you already claimed it? :)
<Andre_Gondim> how can i send e-mail in launchpad, always i don't have permision
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, what do you mean?
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, mandar mail para uma pessoa que tem o mail como escondido no launchpad
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, deixa ver se Ã© um bug
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, tÃ¡
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, quer exemplo?
<Ursinha> manda
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, preciso entrar em contato com https://edge.launchpad.net/~smoking-dog/+contactuser
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, achei
<Ursinha> bug 286410
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 286410 in launchpad-registry "Forbidden error trying to contact a user who has a hidden email address." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286410
 * Ursinha hugs ubottu 
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, estÃ¡ sendo corrigido
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, tÃ¡, Ã© que eu preciso muito disso, pois tem muita gente que tÃ¡ com maiil escondido e eu preciso contactar para melhorar as traduÃ§Ãµes ;)
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, valeu
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, beleza, faz um comentÃ¡rio no bug lÃ¡
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, blz
<javaJake> Is there any way to add someone to my personal repository without requesting a group?
<intellectronica> javaJake: no, you'll have to use a team if you want to collaborate on repositories
<javaJake> intellectronica: OK. :(
<intellectronica> javaJake: why is that a problem?
<javaJake> Well, I have to wait for two days to get it set up.
<intellectronica> javaJake: oh, you mean a ppa?
<javaJake> No, a repository with a team
<intellectronica> javaJake: a bzr repository?
<javaJake> https://code.launchpad.net/~fun2program8/+junk/gentoo-arm-pandora <-- I'm using it to collaborate with others on this project.
<javaJake> intellectronica: yes
<javaJake> But I don't know if it'll be permanent
<javaJake> And so I'd rather not make a "mess" on Launchpad.
<intellectronica> javaJake: so why do you have to wait two days? you can go ahead and create a team
<javaJake> How!? o0
<javaJake> I thought an administrator had to do it?
<javaJake> I'd rather not bother them for such a trifle.
<intellectronica> javaJake: https://edge.launchpad.net/people/+newteam
<javaJake> intellectronica: nice! That's unbelievably conveniant
<intellectronica> javaJake: i think that you're yet another victim of bug #102361 :-/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 102361 in launchpad-registry "It's not obvious how to register a team" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/102361
<javaJake> intellectronica: hehehe
<intellectronica> javaJake: why don't you go and mark yourself as affected by this bug ;)
<javaJake> Good idea :D
#launchpad 2008-11-09
<jmarsden> What does it really mean when a PPA upload fails and the email says "Rejected: Cannot build any of the architectures requested: any" ?
<Hobbsee> jmarsden: it probably means you uploaded it to jaunty, which probably doesn't have ppas yet?
<jmarsden> Aha!  OK.  So should I just stick intrepid in there in the changelog for now??
<Hobbsee> depends what you want it built for, but yes
<jmarsden> Well, it is to fix a bug LP #236140 but it's unlikely it will be a SRU... for now I just want to test that the automated builders will build it OK :-)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 236140 in koverartist "New .desktop file for KoverArtist" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/236140
<Aron_> matsubara-afk: I need some help on my launchpad project
<Aron_> ...
<Aron_> bac: are you online?
<Aron_> ...
<Aron_> who's launchpad admin ?I need some help
<Aron_> ...
<Aron_> still nobody reply me
<Aron_> I have created a project yesterday,but I have created a wrong Series,I don't know how to delete it now
<Aron_> rockstar: are you online now?
<Aron_> ...still no reply...
<wgrant> Aron_: I would advise patience, given that it is a weekend.
<Outlander> hi
<wgrant> Aron_: However, you should file a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad to get an admin to remove it.
<Aron_> wgrant: oh
<Outlander> I have a (very minor) suggestion for launchpad, who do I tell?
<wgrant> Outlander: You could mention it here, and somebody may be able to point you to the right place.
<Outlander> ok cool. I'm just looking at subscribing to something here https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/citrix-client-multiverse/+subscribe and it says "you'll be required to participate in sprints and meetings" so I don't know what that would entail. Maybe a link that goes to a page explaining what they are and what the participation might involve on my part
<Outlander> I think I misread it, "check this if you want to be included in all discussions WHEN attending sprints or meetings" eitherway, what's a sprint? :)
<wgrant> Outlander: I would advise filing a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/blueprint/+filebug. I agree it's unclear.
<Outlander> cool thanks :)
<wgrant> A sprint is basically where the developers get together for a few days or a couple of weeks and do lots of development.
<Outlander> awesome
<Outlander> and meetings could be on irc I guess?
<wgrant> Yep.
<Aron_> wgrant: I have add a question on that page ,who can help me next?
<Aron_> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/50749
<wgrant> Aron_: An admin should get to that within a day or two, in general.
<Aron_> wgrant: oh
<wgrant> Outlander: They don't actually serve any function in Launchpad, but it's useful for meeting organisers to know who is just interesting in watching and who wants to be involved in the development.
<ziroday> Are their any plans for PPA mirrors in the asia region? If there are anywhere where I can follow its progress?
<Pizarro> Hi ti everyone
<Pizarro> I am stuck with the network managaer bug in order to set a VPN connection
<Pizarro> Can anyone help me with this please?
<Hobbsee> Pizarro: you want #ubuntu, i'd say.  That's the support channel
<Pizarro> I was there and so far no suppport on this issue
<Pizarro> I have been over this issue since tyesterday
<Hobbsee> well, this is a support channel for launchpad.net
<Hobbsee> So...this one *really* won't help you
<Pizarro> ah ok I see
<Pizarro> sorry I thought it was a channel ABOUT launchpad
<Hobbsee> it is.
<Pizarro> In launchpad this issue it si opened so that'w why
<Pizarro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/network-manager-pptp/+bug/259168
<Pizarro> that's why I came here
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259168 in pptp-linux "Network Manager unable to connect to PPTP VPN" [Undecided,Invalid]
<Pizarro> exactly
<Pizarro> that's it
<wgrant> Launchpad is simply the website hosting that bug.
<Hobbsee> Pizarro: well, this channel is about how you use launchpad.net.
<Pizarro> ah ok
<Hobbsee> it's not for all the projects that do, as a de-facto support channel on it
<Pizarro> sorry guys
<Pizarro> I got confussed comming here but I am really sick and tired trying to sort out this since yesterday (I didn't sleep yet)
<Hobbsee> Pizarro: you might find https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/network-manager-pptp/+bug/259168/comments/34 helpful.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259168 in pptp-linux "Network Manager unable to connect to PPTP VPN" [Undecided,Invalid]
<Hobbsee> it's a testing package, but you could test it out.
<Pizarro> ok, thank you very much
<Hobbsee> read the bug report, and the comments, for how much success others have had.
<wgrant> If you're getting the "No VPN secrets" error or similar, the PPA package fixed it for me.
<Pizarro> wgrant, I overcame that
<Pizarro> wgrant, now my problem is "VPN connection Failed"
<wgrant> Pizarro: You'd best say so on the bug, then.
<wgrant> Anyway, this is appropriate for #ubuntu-bugs or #ubuntu, not here.
<Pizarro> and it is because the refuse-pap option is not kept saved into the %gconf.xml file
<Pizarro> ok , thanks
<Pizarro> it seems the applet doesn't work properly
<Pizarro> ok thanks, see you
<knitt1> hi. is there a list of subscribed bugs?
<knitt1> ok :-/ found it -.-
<knitt1> butâ¦ the list's empty?
<wgrant> knitt1: That will only show *open* bugs to which you are subscribed.
<knitt1> i just ticked "fix committed" in advanced search and still no bugs
<wgrant> knitt1: Fix Committed is still an open status. perhaps you're looking for Fix Released?
<knitt1> on the bugs page it only says fix committed
<knitt1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/linux/+bug/285323 if you want to have a look
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285323 in linux "Losing keyboard and mouse control when changing screen brightness with fn + arrow under intrepid" [Medium,Fix committed]
<Aron> bac: are you here
<Aron> bac: I need your help
<Hobbsee> Aron: dude, these guys have weekends, you know...
<Aron> Hobbsee: ..yeah
<Aleece> lol
<Ursinha> ZehRique, :)
<ZehRique> Ursinha: prontinho!
<Ursinha> anybody here familiar with rosetta translations?
<Ursinha> ZehRique, o pessoal que trabalha no rosetta tem o fuso um pouco diferente do nosso, entÃ£o eles nÃ£o tÃ£o online ainda
<Ursinha> ZehRique, mas se vc tem o problema, pode abrir um bug q eu falo com eles amanhÃ£
<Ursinha> vc sabe como reproduzir?
<ZehRique> Ursinha: sei sim, Ã© simples.
<Ursinha> ZehRique, masssa
<ZehRique> Ursinha: veja isso, que falei com o Andre_Gondim. O oitavo caso. http://wiki.ubuntu-br.org/TimeDeTraducao/BoasPraticas
<Ursinha> ZehRique, ele me passou o link
<Ursinha> eu dei uma olhada
<Ursinha> o problema Ã© que ele mostra a barra invertida, nÃ©?
<ZehRique> Ah, maravilha, Ursinha
<ZehRique> mostra
<Ursinha> entendi
<Ursinha> ZehRique, vc poderia abrir um bug descrevendo como reproduzir o bug, por favor?
<Ursinha> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+filebug
<ZehRique> Abro sim, Ursinha!
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, mas serÃ¡ um bug ou simplesmente o correto seria usar '%s' ?
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, entÃ£o, eu nÃ£o sei
<Ursinha> se nÃ£o for bug, o pessoal marca invalido
<Ursinha> vcs tem contato com algum gnome translator?
<Ursinha> vcs disseram que eles quem recomendam essa prÃ¡tica, certo?
<ZehRique> neste caso parece que nÃ£o, Andre_Gondim. O LP aceitou minha revisÃ£o. :/
<ZehRique> eu sou GNOME translator. :P
<Ursinha> auahuah :)
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, tÃ¡ vendo hehe
<Ursinha> ZehRique, tipo, mas de onde vc tirou aquilo q era recomendado?
<Ursinha> foi vc quem adicionou aquilo no wiki?
<ZehRique> Ursinha: lembra-se de uma madrugada que trocamos umas palavras junto com o leleobhz?
<Ursinha> ZehRique, eh verdade
<ZehRique> Ursinha: recomendaÃ§Ã£o do FÃ¡bio Nogueira, para nos adaptarmos ao modus operandi do GNOME, KDE e XFCE.
<Ursinha> ZehRique, eu nÃ£o sei atÃ© que ponto o rosetta Ã© responsÃ¡vel por aparecer a barra invertida ali
<Ursinha> ZehRique, seria o caso de falar com alguem que adota essa prÃ¡tica e que usa o rosetta pra traduzir
<Ursinha> pra saber qual Ã© o resultado
<ZehRique> Ursinha: tem algum script que roda apÃ³s comitarmos a traduÃ§Ã£o?
<Ursinha> ZehRique, cara, vc me apertou sem me abraÃ§ar
<Ursinha> :)
<Ursinha> eu preciso perguntar pros devs do rosetta como funciona direitinho
<Ursinha> mas eu nÃ£o acho que algo seja rodado que interfira na traduÃ§Ã£o
<ZehRique> Inclusive, Andre_Gondim, orientei o Valmar Neves a adotar essa prÃ¡tica. :(
<Andre_Gondim> ZehRique, rezar para empacotarem as traduÃ§Ãµes e receber em um update ehehee ou entÃ£o comitar depois pegar o arquivo .mo e testar
<Ursinha> por isso seria legal conversar com alguem que ja usa essa pratica e o rosetta
<Ursinha> pra ver como Ã© que eles fazem
<Andre_Gondim> ZehRique, acho que pegar o arquivo .mo depois de comitar Ã© a melhor soluÃ§Ã£o por hora
<ZehRique> Ã© o que vou fazer, reenviar as traduÃ§Ãµes do GNOME novamente, Andre_Gondim
<Andre_Gondim> ZehRique, =/ se for o jeito, eu ainda estou no KDE fazendo upstream
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, ZehRique, mas seria bom descobrir pra poder alterar alguma das duas coisas, ou a politica, ou a outra coisa que deixa a barra invertida passar, certo?
<ZehRique> OK
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, seria bom falar com o steve hehhehe
<Ursinha> stevea?
<ZehRique> Ah! SÃ³ pra constar, Andre_Gondim: O Vladimir Melo corrigiu essas strings com barra invertida.
<ZehRique> Andre_Gondim: o Langasek?
<Andre_Gondim> Ã© um contato que Og conhece que mexe com o Rosetta, mas nÃ£o lembro agora o nome correto da pessoa ZehRique e Ursinha
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, vou perguntar pra quem eu conheÃ§o do Rosetta amanha
<Ursinha> inclusive um dos caras era tradutor do rosetta
<Ursinha> errr
<Ursinha> do GNOME
<Andre_Gondim> aaaaaaah Danillo Seagan Ursinha e ZehRique
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, ele mesmo :)
<Ursinha> era pra ele q eu ia perguntar :)
<ZehRique> Andre_Gondim: Falei com o Steve Langasek e ele me recomendou falar com Pitti. Eu queria saber no dia, se dava pra corrigir uma string de Ãºltima hora.
<Ursinha> eh o danilos :)
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, ele nunca respondeu meu mail =/
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, encaminha esse email pra mim, por favor? ursinha@canonical.com
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, vou conversar com ele amanha
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, mas faz tempo era outro bug, hehehe, Ã© que eu queria que quem fosse do time de traduÃ§Ã£o tivesse acesso ao batch total do rosetta para facilitar a connstruÃ§Ã£o do wiki de traduÃ§Ã£o, mas fecharam o bug dizendo que era para aliviar a conexÃ£o do rosetta =/
<ZehRique> aiai
<Andre_Gondim> ZehRique, por isso que eu tenho feito na mÃ£o o wiki do intrepid antes eu atualizava mais fÃ¡cil hehe
<ZehRique> Andre_Gondim: Puxa vida. EntÃ£o temos pacotes e mais pacotes pra adicionar no wiki. :(
<Ursinha> I wish I could understand all the process :/
<Andre_Gondim> ZehRique, humrum, mas essa semana vou tentar por em dia, hoje mesmo jÃ¡ tirei uns que foram sugeridos e revisei
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, o que tu fazes exatamente em relaÃ§Ã£o a canonical
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, eu trabalho no launchpad
<Ursinha> fazendo QA
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, legal :D
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, :)
<Ursinha> o launchpad Ã© bem robusto, entÃ£o fica meio dificil saber a fundo os detalhes de cada uma das partes
<Ursinha> por isso se vc tiver algum problema, me fala q eu vou tentar descobrir :)
<Ursinha> sÃ³ vou precisar eventualmente de algum background pra entender o contexto do problema
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, humrum, ano passado eu dei uma palestra sobre o LP no tchelinux, mas falei sobre o pouco que sei, reportar bug, traduÃ§Ã£o, e hostear projetos
<Ursinha> qualquer coisa tem o tour dele, vc ja viu?
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, https://edge.launchpad.net/+tour/index
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, sim, ano passado usei como base hehe
<Andre_Gondim> vou jantar, Ursinha quando tiveres a resposta manda por favor para andregondim at ubuntu dot com :D
<ZehRique> Andre_Gondim: estou compondo o bug report e depois passo para a Ursinha revisar meu english e te encaminho.
<Andre_Gondim> ZehRique, jÃ³ia :D
<ZehRique> Ursinha: ping
<ZehRique> Ursinha: ping
<Ursinha> ZehRique, pong
<ZehRique> pode conferir meu bug report antes que eu o envie?
<ZehRique> Ursinha: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69750/
<Ursinha> ZehRique, claro, nÃ£o q eu possa ajudar muito :)
<ZehRique> Ursinha: :D
<Ursinha> ZehRique, tive uma idÃ©ia
<Ursinha> jÃ¡ q isso Ã© uma duvida, melhor perguntar no answers
<ZehRique> Ursinha: diga!
<Ursinha> acho que Ã© melhor
<Ursinha> perai
<ZehRique> posto lÃ¡ entÃ£o?
<ZehRique> Ursinha
<Ursinha> ZehRique, eh, perai, deixa te passar os links
<ZehRique> Ursinha: OK
<Ursinha> ZehRique, http://paste.ubuntu.com/69759/
<Ursinha> ZehRique, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+addquestion
<ZehRique> Pra jÃ¡, Ursinha
<ZehRique> Ursinha e Andre_Gondim sabe o que pensei agora? Eu poderia anexar a imagem do meu NetworkManager Applet no bug report. Pelo que vi, no answers nÃ£o dÃ¡ pra anexar nada.
<Andre_Gondim> ZehRique, Ã© uma Ã³tima
<Ursinha> ZehRique, faz assim, se for um bug ai vc abre um e anexa nele
<Ursinha> mas por enquanto Ã© uma duvida sobre qual tipo de aspas usar
<Ursinha> nÃ£o Ã©?
<ZehRique> Sim, Ursinha.
<intellectronica> ×©×××¢××
<Ursinha> intellectronica, hi
<ZehRique> Ursinha: question asked. :P
<Ursinha> ZehRique, awesome :)
 * intellectronica waves
<spm> intellectronica: *cool*! At first I thought my reader had gone weird on me - then realised you're using right-to-left. That looks so impressive. :-)
<intellectronica> yeah, it's amazing how it just works. i remember many years when it wasn't trivial at all
<intellectronica> if you search good around the web you'll still find RTL sites that type the text backwards and pad it with lots of spaces
#launchpad 2009-11-02
<RenatoSilva> spiv: sorry
<RenatoSilva> http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4526/nobrown.png
 * popey likes brown too
<popey> just, y'know, sayin' :)
 * RenatoSilva wonders if it's related to Europe
 * wgrant is in .au.
<wgrant> So no!
<RenatoSilva> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkShuttleworth#Why%20is%20the%20default%20desktop%20in%20Ubuntu%20BROWN?
 * RenatoSilva wonders whether crashing applications bleed
<CarlFK> a while go someone said multi release PPA uploads were coming soon - has soon happened yet?
<wgrant> CarlFK: No.
<CarlFK> until then, is there a convention for how to do it?
<CarlFK> seems like i have to bump the version number
<wgrant> Append ~hardy1, ~intrepid1, etc.
<lifeless> wgrant: you can copy binaries between PPA's right?
<wgrant> lifeless: Sure.
<lifeless> thanks
<lifeless> do you know if the arch list is checked?
<wgrant> It's not.
<wgrant> It will blindly copy all binaries.
<wgrant> If the target archive supports additional archs (ie. is non-virtual), new builds should be created for the extra archs.
<lifeless> cool
<wgrant> (note that all archs are published in a virtual PPA; the non-virt archs just normally don't have arch-specific binaries in them)
<lifeless> thanks
<mwhudson> are there any working key servers currently?
<mwhudson> pool.sks-keyservers.net isn't talking to me
<wgrant> mwhudson: It's a pool. It can't not talk to you! Make sure you're using the right port.
<mwhudson> gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv $fingerprint
<mwhudson> it's not on a special port is it?
<wgrant> It's on 11371, but that should be the default.
<mdke> mwhudson: not sure if it's related but people have been complaining a lot about keyservers not synching on bug 435193
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435193 in ubuntu-website "keyserver.ubuntu.com down all time - (110) Connection timed out" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435193
<mdke> (just fyi)
<mwhudson> gpg: requesting key 09827771 from hkp server pool.sks-keyservers.net
<mwhudson> gpgkeys: HTTP fetch error 7: Failed to connect to 2001:470:1f05:429:420:420:420:420: Network is unreachable
<mwhudson> mdke: hmm
<falktx> can anyone tell me why do I upload packages but they don't appear on my ppa?
<noodles775> falktx: are you getting any response email (success, failure) after 5 mins.
<bigjools> falktx: did you get any email about your upload?
<falktx> no mail
<falktx> but upload is sucessful
<falktx> i've tried many settings now
 * bigjools thinks about creating a FAQ for this
<bigjools> falktx: no email means you either didn't sign the upload or signed with a key not known to Launchpad
<noodles775> (it's mentioned in the first para at https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors)
<falktx> i have 3 keys registered for my ppa
<falktx> do i need to sign using the original one, or any of the 3 is fine?
<noodles775> any of the 3 should be fine... hrm.
<bigjools> you mean registered for a user?
<falktx> see my page - ~falk-t-j
<falktx> i think my 3rd fingerprint is not registered yet
<falktx> maybe that's the problem
<falktx> will upload again now
<falktx> yay
<falktx> works now
<falktx> thanks bigjools for pointing that out
<apw> does anyone know why Lucid is appearing at the bottom of the versions table (oldest) instead of the top (newest) ?? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux
<wgrant> apw: Bug 464014
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 464014 in launchpad-registry "DistributionSourcePackageView.active_series sorts versions as strings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/464014
<apw> oh 10.10 ... heh
<wgrant> 10.04, but yes.
<apw> doh ... yeah
<rdb> Hum, what if someone is using a username on launchpad that I'd like to have, and that person has not used launchpad ever?
<rdb> do usernames expire, or should I contact the user and ask if he'd like to change his uername
<beuno> rdb, I would start by contacting the user
<rdb> k, thanks
<kirkland> how do i unsubscribe a team i administer from a given package's bugs
<rdb> Lol? http://pro-rsoft.com/screens/launchpad-question.png
<rdb> (that happens when I click my email address verify link, btw
<rdb> seems like a bug
<bac> rdb: that is a bug.  could you go to http://launchpad.net/launchpad and file it?  it would be great if you could add the screenshot as an attachment
<james_w`> kirkland: go to the package page and click "Subscribe to bug mail"
<kirkland> james_w`: got it, thanks!
<rdb> bac, sure thing
<rdb> bac, https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/471171
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 471171 in launchpad "email confirmation page is empty" [Undecided,New]
<bac> rdb:  thanks!
<bac> rockstar: you aren't really CHR today are you?
<rockstar> bac, no sir.  I think gmb is.
<bac> rockstar: ok, i just was looking at the topi
<bac> topic
<bac> mrjazzcat: ping
* bac changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<mrjazzcat> bac: hi Brad.
<apw> intellectronica, yo ... remember we were talking about nominations for per package uploaders ... that seems to still be broken
<rockstar> apw, intellectronica is unavailable currently.
<apw> rockstar, ok ta
<c_korn> hello, I have a question about the gpg key. I use a gpg key to sign my packages so I can upload them to my PPA. I recently added a new email address to my gpg key and synced with the keyserver (the getdeb address http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x0F16B5FC859F3940230248D2DD6DF71C412D1685&op=index ) but when I sign a package with this new address and upload I just do not get an email and the package does not appear in the ppa. I wait
<c_korn> ed for a few days now.
<bigjools> c_korn: did you tell LP about your new email address?
<c_korn> bigjools: oh, didn't know I also have to do this. thanks.
<bigjools> c_korn: yes, it won't email people it doesn't know about, to avoid spam
<c_korn> bigjools: makes sense :) and I just got my mail that the package has been accepted. thanks
<bigjools> great
<micahg1> are the Ubuntu IRC channels offline?
<micahg1> nevermind...
<MenZa> I'm trying to subscribe to the ~ubuntuone-users mailing list, but it's throwing me an Oops!. I suspect it's my merged account, which also keeps me from changing my e-mails.
<mwhudson> MenZa: suck
<mwhudson> MenZa: what's the oops id?
<MenZa> mwhudson: OOPS-1402ED689
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1402ED689
 * MenZa didn't know ubottu parsed oops IDs like bugs.
<mwhudson> ConstraintNotSatisfied: <security proxied canonical.launchpad.database.emailaddress.EmailAddress instance at 0x1021fdd0>
<mwhudson> well _that's_ helpful
<MenZa> well, I can give you some background information
<MenZa> I had an account with the e-mail lasse@havelund.org. this was merged into my current, ~lhavelund, with e-mail lasse.havelund@gmail.com
<MenZa> so I'm thinking it's screaming because of a bad database correction and freaks out because it doesn't know which to use, or something to that effect
<mwhudson> well maybe
<MenZa> I get OOPS (oopses?) when I try to +editemails as well.
<mwhudson> that definitely shouldn't break anything though
<mwhudson> sinzui: do you know anything about MenZa's problem?
<MenZa> Someone reported issues with merged accounts and U1 as well in an ubuntuone-client bug, iirc.
<MenZa> so something tells me merging isn't too good
<MenZa> (not an *error*, just inaccessible files in that case)
 * sinzui looks
 * sinzui has not seen anything like this since Account were separated from Person and there were users without a primary email address
<MenZa> hmm
<MenZa> bug report time?
 * MenZa bites lip.
<sinzui> MenZa: but looking the death in the MailingList code, I wonder if you are a member of a dead team.
<mwhudson> MenZa: hm, i only see one email addy on your profile, i would expect to see two
<sinzui> barry: what do you think about https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1402ED689
<MenZa> sinzui: hmm
<sinzui> oh login
<sinzui> MenZa: did you just register?
<MenZa> sinzui: no, my ~menza account is from 2005, and ~lhavelund which it was merged into, was created 2--3 weeks ago
<sinzui> I think the merge broke something...
<MenZa> seems like it, heh
<sinzui> ~lhavelund should not be accessible if you merged
<MenZa> ~lhavelund is the new account - ~menza is the old account
<mwhudson> sinzui: i bet ~menza was subscribed to a mailing list with an EmailAddress that somehow isn't validated for ~lhavelund
<sinzui> mwhudson: I am not sure since validation does not work with users, it is a state on the address, once transfered, it is still the same object
<sinzui> barry: ping
<MenZa> mwhudson: That is correct - my old e-mail address is not validated, as I cannot +editemails. I get an oops there as well. Want an ID?
<MenZa> OOPS-1402EB708
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1402EB708
<MenZa> That's the one ^
<mwhudson> MenZa: i think that's more or less the same problem
 * MenZa nods
<MenZa> I figured it would be
<MenZa> I've just been too lazy to report a bug (sorry D:)
<sinzui> I think the issue is that a list was deactivated, or someone performed DB surgery to give its email address to some other user, and that broken the DB
<mwhudson> yeah, it's a data issue not a code issue
<mwhudson> it seems
<MenZa> well that's good
<sinzui> We really need barry to answer this since he has the experience of what he had to do to fix the damage
<MenZa> I suppose
<MenZa> It's nothing urgent - I can wait.
<MenZa> Thanks muchly for your help thus far.
<MenZa> !helpersnack | sinzui, mwhudson
<ubottu> sinzui, mwhudson: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<sinzui> Wow, that query to fine mailing lists for your teams should be optimised
<thrope> hi - i accidently subscribed to a bug when I did an automatic bug report on a new 9.10 install and now im inundated with updates/duplicates... i've been trying to unsubscribe for about 4 days but I cant log in to launchpad without errors
<thrope> on most of the tickets there isnt even an indication of the ticket i subscribed to
<thrope> has launchpad been down for several days?
<wgrant> thrope: No. It has been very much up. What goes wrong when you try to log in?
<thrope> timeout error
<thrope> oh actually i am logged in - it is just the links in the emails that time out
<wgrant> Ah. What is the link?
<thrope> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/417842
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 417842 in linux "WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.31/kernel/power/suspend_test.c:52 suspend_test_finish+0x7c/0x80()" [Low,In progress]
<thrope> in my profile i can see list of subscribed bugs
<thrope> how can i unsubscribe from that one
<MenZa> actually, it does so here on bugs.edge
<thrope> (Error ID: OOPS-1402D3725)
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1402D3725
<wgrant> Must be a big bug.
<wgrant> I wonder if it's typing out due to the absolutely ridiculous number of duplicates.
<wgrant> Er. timing out.
<thrope> so is there any way i can stop the emails?
<thrope> i'm getting 20 or so an hour
<wgrant> thrope: To unsubscribe, add '/+subscribe' to the end of the URL.
<mwhudson> the time out is somewhere in the subscription stuff
<thrope> wgrant: brilliant - i think that worked!
<wgrant> Probably calculating subscribers from the duplicates.
<thrope> althoguht looks like its timing out again
<wgrant> Yeah, that bug has 337 duplicates.
<wgrant> It's probably timing out calculating the subscribers for all of those.
<wgrant> Hm.
<wgrant> No, that can't be right.
<wgrant> The subscribers list is loaded asynchronously.
<mwhudson> wgrant: nevertheless, i think you might be right
<mwhudson>    - /srv/launchpad.net/production/launchpad-rev-8539/lib/lp/bugs/browser/../templates/bug-portlet-subscribers.pt
<mwhudson>    - Line 11, Column 4
<wgrant> mwhudson: Ah, probably hunting through all the subscriptions of all of the bugs anyway, just to discover whether it needs to render a Subscribe or an Unsubscribe link...
<wgrant> Sad.
<mwhudson> wgrant: oh could be
<mwhudson> something is odd though, the reported sql time is only 2 seconds
<wgrant> And I suppose there's no breakdown of Python time.
<mwhudson> well i think the report is probably lying
<mwhudson> thrope: did you manage to unsubscribe
<mwhudson> ?
<thrope> no - it timed out
<mwhudson> hm
<mwhudson> the +subscribe page loaded for me
<mwhudson> thrope: what was the oops the second time?
<mwhudson> thrope: might be worth trying again
<wgrant> It will redirect after the POST to the page that times out, but it should have actually unsubscribed you.
<thrope> the first page came up very quick with the button to unsubscribe
<wgrant> If you return to the page, does it instead ask you to subscribe?
<mwhudson> oh right
<thrope> but after clicking it timed out
<mwhudson> thrope: you're probably unsubscribed then
<thrope> and in my profile its still listed as a subscription
<mwhudson> oh really?
<mwhudson> hm
<wgrant> Oh.
<wgrant> That will execute another big query.
<wgrant> Very similar to the other one, to attempt to unsubscribe you from all dupes.
<thrope> I'll try again
<thrope> ah it worked this time!
<wgrant> Excellent.
<wgrant> Normal bugs work fine. But this bug is in no way normal :(
<thrope> thanks alot... sorry for the trouble
<thrope> yes i think its overzealous automatic reporting
<thrope> i got the error coming back from resume and thought id try the automatic reporter
<wgrant> It doesn't help that the automatic reporting was automatically turned back on the Jaunty->Karmic upgrade.
<wgrant> But that has now been fixed.
<ebroder> Is there a better place to talk about launchpadlib, or is this it?
#launchpad 2009-11-03
<paultag> Hey guys, I am the Ohio LoCo Contact, and I was wondering if there was any way to get a member report -- just something simple joined on data, and a username. I would love to chart out how the team has grown ( or not )
<wgrant> paultag: You could extract that data using launchpadlib (https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib)
<paultag> wgrant: that's dead on what I need, thanks a ton :)
<wgrant> paultag: In particular, you want to get the team and look at the 'members_details' attribute.
<paultag> wgrant: outstanding. I had no idea, I was almost ready to resort to screen scraping ;)
 * wgrant hasn't had to write any LP screenscraping code for more than a year now.
<paultag> wgrant: a big achievement :)
<doctormo> wgrant: My screen scaping code is still active. I should move it over.
<wgrant> doctormo: What are you scraping?
<doctormo> wgrant: Oh, pictures, names, emails that sort of thing.
<doctormo> But it's site-to-site using launchpad as the auth.
<rowinggolfer> the build queue is a bit of a traffic jam :(
<rowinggolfer> a hangover from the karmic party?
 * rowinggolfer watches his estimated build time increase :(
<james_w> are the edge appservers having some trouble?
<apw> intellectronica, about?
<deryck> apw, intellectronica will be unavailable all week.
<apw> oh
<apw> ok
<Soyo> In my launchpad account, when I try to sign the code of conduct it asks me for my OpenPGP key fingerprint. When I try to enter it, I get an error message saying it is already registered. Yet it does not show up in my account and I cannot sign the agreement.
<Soyo> Does anyone have any experience with this?
<Soyo> Will upgrading to 9.10 get me a new key?
<Soyo> I am trying to sign the code of conduct which says I need to register my OpenPGP key. When I attempt to register it says that key is already registered but it is not showing up in my account. I am not sure what to do about this...
<beuno> Soyo, could you have registered in another account?
<mpt> Hm, this is a catch-22
<mpt> I want to unsubscribe from a bug report because it's receiving so many comments and duplicates
<mpt> but the number of comments and duplicates is causing the bug report to time out, so I can't unsubscribe
<mpt> ah, it loads!
<Soyo> beuno, possibly I guess...
<Soyo> I doubt it though, none of my old e-mail accounts seem to work
<DanielC> Question: What is a "project"? How does it differ from a branch?
<DanielC> Is a project just a place where you put many branches?
<beuno> DanielC, correct
<DanielC> beuno: Thanks.
<DanielC> beuno: It is alright if the branches in the project are entirely unrelated?
<beuno> DanielC, sure, although you loose some benefits
<DanielC> The project I want to make is sort of a meta-project that covers many small programs.
<DanielC> Should I make a separate project for each program?
<DanielC> I notice that MySQL seems to have some sort of meta-project (https://launchpad.net/mysql). How did they do that?
<beuno> yeah, if you're going to have a set of projects that are grouped, you can ask for a project group to be created
<beuno> and create a new project for each under it
<DanielC> Ok. So a project group is what I want. How do I make one?
<beuno> you will need to file a question in Launchpad asking for the project group, but the regular projects you can create yourself
<DanielC> ok
<DanielC> Thanks, I'll do that.
<DanielC> Uhmm... I'm stupid today. I can't figure out how to ask a question in Launchpad. The only "Answers" options I see are on project pages, like MySQL.
<beuno> DanielC, https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<beuno> launchpad in launchpad!
<beuno> :)
<DanielC> :-)
<DanielC> thanks
<Peng> "You have been subscribed to a public bug"? Yes, Launchpad, I was the one who subscribed me, and I already was indirectly subscribed anyway. :|
<DanielC> beuno: Hmm... the website says that they only create project groups fro projects that "are established and can demonstrate that a project group would help them make the most of Launchpad.". In other words, we don't qualify yet.
<DanielC> s/fro/for/
<DanielC> Well, at least I know how it works.
<beuno> DanielC, well, I don't know if we're that strict anymore
<beuno> flacoste, sinzui, are we still that strict?  :)
<DanielC> This is a brand new project. We don't have any code yet.
<sinzui> We are still that strict. DanielC We want to make sure that the subprojects are separate code bases or produce a separate piece of work
<DanielC> sinzui: Ok. So I should start by making separate projects and then I'd ask for a project group?
<sinzui> DanielC: Yes, that helps a lot.
<DanielC> Each sub project would be quite small. That's why I was initially thinking about branches.
<sinzui> DanielC: Do they share milestones?
<DanielC> Not really.
<DanielC> If we are lucky, we might get students to contribute short term coding projects as part of a qualification in open source and programming.
<DanielC> It's all a bit tentative.
<sinzui> DanielC: Users will see the milestones for all the subprojects on the project group
<DanielC> Ok.
<DanielC> I don't think it matters much one way or the other.
<sinzui> This is more because project groups do not work well. It should not force you to change your plans
<DanielC> I'm fairly new to launchpad (and totally new to Bazaar) so I don't fully understand the pros and cons of having different projects or just different branches. To make things worse, I don't fully know the project requirements either :-)
<DanielC> I was just asked yesterday to explore ways that we could have different projects out in the open, in the open source style (we are trying to teach kids about open source).
<DanielC> So the whole idea is still a bit vague.
<sinzui> DanielC: The principle value of a project group is that the owner can target bugs to milestones in subprojects. User cans search for bugs, blueprints, and answers that span a single project.
<DanielC> Ok. I thought it was just an index of other projects.
<DanielC> Is there a way to just get an index?
<sinzui> No there is not. tagging/categorisation/browsing is not a feature we have built yet
<DanielC> Ok.
<DanielC> I guess I can keep a separate page elsewhere.
<DanielC> mywebsite.com/our-projects.html
<DanielC> Thanks for answering all my newbie questions :-)
<sinzui> DanielC: to users/developer need to use more than one project? Does the code from these project iteroperate?
<DanielC> sinzui: Not likely.
<DanielC> I doubt it.
<sinzui> By making the same team the owner of the projects, the projects will be listed together on the team's pages
<DanielC> I like that idea.
<DanielC> Thanks!
<DanielC> Ah, but it means that anybody in the team can edit any project, right? That's ok for in-company work but if we ever actually get any students writing projects that could be a problem.
<beuno> DanielC, you can make a team own the project(s)
<beuno> and just add people to the team
<DanielC> beuno: Thanks. The team would work great for now (initially it'll be just the company employees writing code). In the future, can we add a developer to one project without adding him to the team? (e.g. a student).
<Peng> You could create an overall team with access to all projects, and project-specific teams. AIUI, you can make the overall team a sub-team of each project-specific team to give it access.
<Peng> How many times can Peng use "team" in a sentence?
<DanielC> That sounds perfect.
<DanielC> So I can have the "management team", and every time a student makes a project we create a team that includes that student and the management team.
<Peng> I think. I've seen something to that effect done; I just don't know how, so I'm guessing.
<Peng> (With lp:~bzr and lp:~bzr-core.)
<DanielC> Maybe beuno or sinzui can confirm.
<nigel_nb> launchpad seems to have a problem
<nigel_nb> I get the error message "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server. "
<DanielC> nigel_nb: Works for me. Try hitting refresh on  your browser.
<DanielC> nigel_nb: It's probably just Internet gremlins.
<nigel_nb> DanielC: I could access launchpad, bazar gave me trouble
<nigel_nb> DanielC: now its started working again
<DanielC> Magic.
<nigel_nb> DanielC: hehe
<beuno> DanielC, correct
<beuno> also, anyone can push branches to any project
<DanielC> Yay.
<beuno> the team permissions are to be able to commit to a shared branch
<beuno> but the workflow you can use is, anyone pushes up branches, files a merge proposal, and someone with permissions reviews and approves
<DanielC> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by pushing branches to a project.
<beuno> well, you can push any number of branches to a project
<beuno> someone gets trunk, works on it, and pushed it up with a different name
<DanielC> But only to projects you own.
<beuno> nope, anyone can push to any project
<beuno> see: http://code.launchpad.net/bzr
<DanielC> Why would launchpad work like that?
<beuno> because this is open source   :)
<DanielC> Yeah, but open source doesn't mean "wiki".
<LarstiQ> DanielC: they're still in your own namespace
<LarstiQ> DanielC: ~danielc/project/branch
<DanielC> ok
<LarstiQ> DanielC: or in my case, ~larstiq/bzr/bug-15069
<LarstiQ> etc
<Peng> It's a wiki where anyone can add a User:Them/Foo page, not edit your pages.
<Peng> There's nothing dangerous about it.
<LeeJunFan> I've been getting timeout errors trying to file an ubuntu bug for a couple days now.
<LarstiQ> DanielC: but they're easy to find by looking at the branch listing for the project
<DanielC> Ok, so other people can put their branches in my project. Does that allow me to edit their branches?
<Peng> DanielC: No.
<LarstiQ> DanielC: no
<DanielC> Ok.
<LarstiQ> DanielC: you can merge them into your branch if you so wish, and thereby benefit from their work
<DanielC> So all it does is make their branch show up on my project page.
<DanielC> LarstiQ: ok
<LarstiQ> DanielC: that, and give defaults for where to send merge requests to, where to stack on, easier linking to bugs, etc
<Peng> It's about convenient organization, not some hippy edit-my-code free-for-all. :P
<LarstiQ> DanielC: it is an aid to manage all the information
<DanielC> Oh, I see how it works. The idea is that I might have a bug fix for (say) launchpad. So I make a branch with my bugfix and put it on the launchpad project, and if you like it you merge it.
<LarstiQ> indeed
<LarstiQ> DanielC: exactly
<DanielC> thanks
<LarstiQ> and if I don't like it, but other people do, they can use it, maybe change it to something I do approve, and then I merge it
<DanielC> This could be useful to me actually. If we get a student doing a small project, they could just make a branch and put it on my project page.
<LarstiQ> DanielC: yup
<DanielC> So there's no need to make a bunch of projects and a bunch of complicated teams.
<DanielC> Thanks!
<LarstiQ> DanielC: np :)
<DanielC> One more question. Tell me if I'm right: A branch is never owned by a project. It is owned by a person or a team. That team has to push that branch to the project so it appears on the project page.
<beuno> DanielC, correct
<DanielC> Ok, thanks.
<DanielC> Launchpad looks really neat.
<Peng> DanielC: You can make a branch the project's default, so that it will e.g. be accessible from "lp:project" instead of just "lp:~user/project/branch" and will be the default target for merge proposals.
<DanielC> Peng: Thanks. That's very useful.
<Peng> (It doesn't have to be a team-owned branch, either, FYI.)
<DanielC> ok
<barry> sinzui: i am back
<sinzui> rock
<Peng> roll? :D
<Meths> Is launchpad stuck or just very slow at the moment in handling branch updates?
<mac_v> !test
<ubottu> yes, I'm alive.
<mac_v> hi , could someone shed some light on this  Bug #414401 ?  the checkbox to subscribe is also missing after the recent lp update ... so more users are not subscribing  , since they are not aware they need to
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414401 in malone "Automatically subscribe users to bug mail when they post a comment" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414401
<mac_v> any reason the user is not subscribed automatically?
<kiko_work> deryck, intellectronica: do either of you know about this?
 * deryck looks back
<deryck> kiko_work, are you asking do we know about the bug?  Or why haven't we subscribed user automatically when they comment?
<deryck> oh, I follow now that I look closer, sorry.
<deryck> hmmm, but mac_v has left.
<deryck> I can follow up when he reappears.
<kiko_work> ah, this is because of the ajax change of course
<deryck> right.  And I think we just haven't gotten the fix in to auto subscribe at this point.
 * micahg thought the bug was clear...
<fta> *sigh* more than 24h of ppa queue, it's unusable for dailies as they have no chance of getting published :(
<Meths> branch updating is over an hour and a half and counting atm
<noodles775> fta: people are trying to find out when we'll get the normal ppa servers back.
<noodles775> Meths: that issue is being looked into currently too - rockstar might be able to give you an update.
 * noodles775 really goes.
<rockstar> Meths, yeah, there's something wrong.
<fta> are the PPAs ready for lucid?
<fta> (not that i want to start pushing my zillions stuff to lucid just yet)
<fta> but i'm already getting requests..
<fta> that would probably explode my quotas too
<lfaraone> In launchpad, how do we mark a bug as affecting say... 1.0 of a project that has 2.0 and 3.0 out? (other than abusing tags)
<bjsnider> ppa builds are being put off for quite awhile right now
<pmjdebruijn> bjsnider: I noticed queue times are very long
<bjsnider> it's odd because you wuoldn't think much of anything is being built at this point, nothing for the next distro, hardly anything for hardy and karmic
<pmjdebruijn> yeah, it's pretty ennoying, I'm going to have to sleep on my builds :(
<mac_v> deryck: Hi , I didnt understand your latest tag in Bug #414401 ?  is it for just reference or does it also prioritize the bug in anyway? [i realize that is not the bug importance]  :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 414401 in malone "Automatically subscribe users to bug mail when they post a comment" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/414401
<deryck> mac_v, the bugs team is keeping track via "bug-page" for things to work on this week actually.  So some chance it can be picked up and landed next week.
<deryck> mac_v, otherwise, "bug-page" just means bug page related work we need to do that is otherwise not scheduled.
<mac_v> deryck: awesome... thanks... :)
<deryck> it's more for me than anyone else.
<kiko_work> lfaraone, there's no way to do that right now unless 1.0 and 2.0 are separate series
<kiko_work> lfaraone, i.e. meaning you'd be willing to fix it in the two branches if necessary
<kiko_work> bjsnider, fta, pmjdebruijn: I believe the builders were borrowed for the ubuntu release but should be back
<lfaraone> kiko_work: okay.
<lfaraone> kiko_work / kiko , would you have a chance to chat with our sysadmin for a minute about branding?
<lfaraone> kiko_work: bernie currently manages bugs.sl.o, and he wanted some clarification on a few points.
<kiko_work> lfaraone, I can't, but flacoste or jml or kfogel will be able to
<lfaraone> kiko_work: okay.
<lfaraone> flacoste, jml, kfogel, ping.
<joh> Hi, how do I remove a "linked package" from my project?
<joh> https://launchpad.net/alarm-clock/trunk <-- links to package 'alarm-clock' which is another project.
<lfaraone> joh: I think that requires manual intervention. File a question against launchpad itself, I think.
<joh> lfaraone: uhm, ok
<joh> Ah, I can delete it from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alarm-clock
<bernie> hello everyone
<kfogel> lfaraone: hi
<lfaraone> kfogel: hi.
<lfaraone> bernie: ^^^
<lfaraone> bernie: if I understand correctly, essentially we're wondering when/if Launchpad will allow us to have "branded domains", so that rather than pointing people at https://launchpad.net/sugarlabs, we can show them https://bugs.sugarlabs.org
<kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: I'm in a conversation with both of you, right? :-)
<lfaraone> kfogel: theoretically :P
<bernie> kfogel: yep, I'm listening
<bernie> kfogel: I've reviewd the test instance of LP running on EC2 with the Sugar Labs bug database imported, and it looks great. Thanks to whoever did the work.
<lfaraone> bernie: that would be deryck.
<kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: heh, okay.  So, we have been considering the branded domain thing for a while, but it's not on our near-term roadmap.  I can't make you any promises.  I can, however, mention internally that Sugar Labs was interested in this question.
<kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: glad the bug db import looked good!  Yes, deryck is to be thanked, iiuc.
<bernie> kfogel: yes, it would be very important to us to have all our infrastructure consistently under *.sugarlabs.org, possibly with "side links" to the various services.
<kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: is the domain branding thing a nice-to-have, very-nice-to-have, must-have, ... for you?
<kfogel> bernie: I completely understand the feeling.  It's just an implementation question for us (how much work vs how much will it help make some potential users more comfortable w/ Launchpad).
<bernie> kfogel: I'd say the domain name is a must-have, while the customized link-bar would be a very -nice-to-have
<bernie> kfogel: others within SL are already nervous because we're oursouring hosting of very critical component of our development infrastructure to partners like Canonical and Nokia
<kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: *nod*.  Okay.  I'll point this out internally, but again can't make any promises.  I hope Launchpad will remain in consideration even without it, though it sounds like it may be a tough sell.
<LarstiQ> federation yay *sniff*
<bernie> kfogel: I think we'd rather try to run our own instance in this case, although I know it would be extremely painful
<lfaraone> bernie: that's really highly discouraged, btw, and we'd have to replace all the images, CSS, etc which aren't GPL'd.
<bernie> kfogel: is LP's codebase going to be installable on karmic anytime soon, btw?
<kfogel> bernie: mrmrmph.  Not sure what to say, except: I'm very sorry you don't have our production & IS team! :-)
<kfogel> bernie: it should work on karmic now (I'm building as we speak)
<kiko_work> bernie, kfogel, lfaraone: as I said, you could easily set up a redirect to launchpad.net/foo without any DNS or hosting magic required
<bernie> kfogel: that's encouraging news!
<kfogel> bernie:, lfaraone: what kiko_work said.  THe URLs you advertise can be whatever you want, and then redirect as needed.
<bernie> kfogel: but still, we shall not underestimate the amount of work to keep something as huge as LP running. We don't want our bug database to become a bigger time-sink than Trac was.
<kiko_work> bernie, lfaraone: ultimately you must realize that even though you are outsourcing, you're outsourcing to somebody (us) who depends on this infrastructure 24x7 to run operations, and the codebase is free software.. hard to beat LP as a platform
<lfaraone> kiko_work: I understand, and I don't have a problem personally with being at lp.net.
<kiko_work> so the outsourcing argument is really moot -- we work really hard to keep things running and as I said your data is yours if you want to export it away
<kiko_work> the branding.. you could get around it with frame/iframing, but the question is, do you really want to? if you look at the branding today, it is pretty much project-centric with the exception of the URL itself
<bernie> kiko_work: yes, I trust Canonical to be able to keep LP running more than anyone else on the planet :-)
<kiko_work> LP only appears in the footer
<kiko_work> and think of what you get in return!
<kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: I've got an idea: take those resources you'd spend running your own instance, and instead start a conversation on the launchpad-dev list about implementing domain branding :-).
<lfaraone> kiko_work: we understand, and we're greatly appreciate what canonical is offering.
<kiko_work> heh
<kiko_work> kfogel, oh, good point -- if you're really interested in the branding work, then maybe you could offer to lead it?
<kiko_work> kfogel, i.e. s/you're/sugarlabs are/ :)
<bernie> kiko_work: well, we have to make all our web infrastructure look consistent somehow. it' would make us look disorganized if we hosted each piece of infrastructure on a different domain name, with a wildly different look and feel, and with no cross-links between the services
<bernie> kfogel: that could probably be done... how much work do you think that would take?
<kfogel> bernie: Well, I don't know, but people on the launchpad-dev@ list do know.
<kfogel> s/people/other people/
<lfaraone> I know a few good Zope hackers, and I've been meaning to get my hands dirty for a while now.
<kiko_work> bernie, largely depends on far you want the branding to go -- I mean, at some point you need to say "this is where sugarlabs.org ends" -- i.e. user pages, etc
<kfogel> It would be a welcome conversation, actually, with a concrete need by a specific organization driving it.
<bernie> kfogel: LP seems to be using relative URLs most of the time, where is it that "launchpad.net" is being hard-coded?
<kfogel> bernie: I'm actually not sure what the technical blockers have been; probably certs are part of it.
<bernie> kfogel: oh, yes... damn ssl
<lfaraone> bernie: yeah, we'd need to get a SSL cert.
<kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: but let's not guess.  Let's have this conversation on the dev ml.
<lfaraone> kfogel: can't the sabdfl get us a free Thawte cert? ;)
<CarlFK> I used to be able to log in to sf using my lp openid - now I can't figure out how - anyone know wut happen?
<kfogel> Getting a cert is not that hard.  It's having the right place to put it that might be hard :-).
<kfogel> hah
<kfogel> CarlFK: can you describe exact symptom?
<kfogel> lfaraone: heh.  No, I think he sold that off :-).
<bernie> lfaraone: even if we gave them a certificate for bugs.sugarlabs.org, ssl has trouble with virtual hosts not sharing the same base domain.
<CarlFK> kfogel: I can't find a place to type my lp open ID
<bernie> lfaraone: you'd have to use a different IP for each vhost
<bernie> kfogel: LP uses apache as a frontend, right?
<kfogel> CarlFK: that sounds like a question for the sf admins (?).  Did their interface change?
<RenatoSilva> Is it possible to turn certain project into a project group?
<CarlFK> kfogel: yes, and I guess so.  #sf didn't have an answer
<RenatoSilva> Is it possible someone do that for me?
<lfaraone> RenatoSilva: yes, file a request on launchpad itself asking so.
<lfaraone> *answer request
<kfogel> bernie: yup
<RenatoSilva> lfaraone: where exactly? a bug?
<RenatoSilva> lfaraone: ah ok
<RenatoSilva> lfaraone: under launchpad project ?
<kfogel> RenatoSilva: I think that's right.
<RenatoSilva> ok thanks
<lfaraone> RenatoSilva: yes.
<RenatoSilva> ok
<lfaraone> CarlFK: might want to email their sysadmin team, we can't really help you with that afaic.t
<CarlFK> lfaraone: yeah - was hoping someone had a definitive 'they removed it' or 'the moved it over here'
<bernie> kfogel: with clever mod_rewrite rules in the bugs.sugarlabs.org vhost, we could really make LP think the URLs are still all launchpad.net
<lfaraone> bernie: what happens when you go to a URL that's no longer part of "
<bernie> kfogel: the ssl issue could be resolved if we could assign an extra IP to the machine(s) hosting LP
<lfaraone> bernie: what happens when you go to a URL that's no longer part of "sugarlabs", but rather than LP?
<lfaraone> bernie: ie http://launchpad.sugarlabs.org/~jrhacker, should that be LP or SL-LP?
<bernie> lfaraone: oh, I see. Users would still be global.
<kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: not sure what to do in that case.  It could redirect to regular lp; that might be best.  What you basically want is for all sugarlabs-owned projects to be accessible under *.sugarlabs.org, not necessarily anything else.
<RenatoSilva> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/210
<lfaraone> kfogel: agreed.
<RenatoSilva> *** Existing projects can /not/ be converted into project groups ***
<RenatoSilva> We only create project groups for projects that are established and can demonstrate that a project group would help them make the most of Launchpad.
<lfaraone> RenatoSilva: okay, so just have your current project renamed.
<RenatoSilva> Well, I just want to group the projects
<bernie> lfaraone: well, I guess that's less of a problem, as kfogel says.
<RenatoSilva> lfaraone: ok I'll ask the onwer to rename it, or either create a new name for the group
<kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: another interesting idea: what if you used Launchpad's infrastructure (as hosted by us right now), and wrote custom front-ends (perhaps using our existing UI  ajax code) to talk to it via the APIs.  ?
<lfaraone> Assuming all bugs are public, is there any sensitive data in the XML dump from trac-lp-migrator?
<kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: while a lot of work, it's still probably less work in the long run than maintaining your own Launchpad.
<lfaraone> kfogel: hm...
<bernie> kfogel: interesting idea, but LP's sleek UI is our #1reason for switching... we could not beat it easily.
<kfogel> bernie: steal as much of it as you want (though rebrand the images, of course)
<zsquareplusc> known downtime or is it just me getting a timeout when reporting a bug?
<lfaraone> zsquareplusc: probably the latter.
<bernie> kfogel: are the presentation and the engine already separated by means of the public API? That would be terrific
<bernie> kfogel: truly 3-tier architecture
<kfogel> bernie: mostly, yup.  See help.launchpad.net/API
<bernie> wow
<bernie> kudos
<lfaraone> kfogel: does the UI code already use the public API?
<kfogel> bernie: our UI makes REST calls just the way anyone else does.  (I'm not saying the separation is 100% clean, but in theory that's the way it work, and I believe it's largely true in practice too).
<lfaraone> kfogel: I'm still wondering if it'd be easier just to do the modifications to trunk launchpad. It might be more expensive for you folks, however, if you have to maintain separate certs and another IP
<zsquareplusc> lfaraone: a no it's the problem when the description is too long. that bit be two days ago. just to bad that the description was filled in automatically by apport
<kfogel> lfaraone: well, I doubt Canonical is going to pay for Sugarlabs's cert :-), and anyway that shouldn't be a major expense here.
<kfogel> lfaraone: but raise it on launchpad-dev, and be clear how important this is to you.  Let's at least find out how hard custom-domain-branding would be.
<lfaraone> kfogel: (I was refering to the cost of the IP, and the added engineering cost of maintaining the configuration)
<lfaraone> kfogel: okay.
<lfaraone> bernie: shall you or should I?
<bernie> lfaraone, kfogel: I guess a CA-Cert signed certificate would be enough for us at this time... the bug db is not meant to be used by end users (yet).
<bernie> lfaraone: you've been in touch with everyone much longer than me, I guess it's your call
<bernie> lfaraone: please, cc me
<lfaraone> bernie: okay.
<Soyo> So I am trying to sign the code of conduct but it does not show that any of my OpenPGP keys. When try to use my public key it says it has already been imported... Does someone else have my key (or did I use it already in another account somehow that I forgot about?) If so what do I do now?
<Soyo> Can I get a new public key like making a private key?
<bernie> kfogel, kiko_work: I'd like to add that we're very grateful for your support
 * lfaraone seconds bernie.
<bernie> kiko_work, kfogel: btw, Sugar Labs is also looking for rack space in Boston to host a 2U machine that would load-balance this high-traffic service: http://activities.sugarlabs.org
<kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: hey, thanks.
<bernie> kiko_work, kfogel: it's high traffic, but not high bandwidth as we have a good content distribution network
<kfogel> bernie: related to the launchpad stuff, or just an independent thing?
<lfaraone> kfogel: activities.sl.o is a "mozilla addons" clone for sugarlabs.
<lfaraone> kfogel: so this is a separate deal, iiuc
<bernie> kfogel: independent, but if we'd settle on installing a custom LP frontend, that would be certainly the machine of choice.
<bernie> kfogel: if the LP admins could do the setup work and help us co-maintain it, I guess we could even run an entire LP instance there.  We don't lack the hardware, just the expertise.
<Soyo> If my OpenPGP key has "already been imported" but doesn't show up in my launchpad account profile how do I sign the code of conduct?
<kiko_work> that's quite odd though
<kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: I think we're not offering that (support for other LP installations), though can ask.  I'd be surprised, though.
<kiko_work> where is it saying "already been imported"?
<Soyo> https://launchpad.net/~p1l0t/+editpgpkeys
<kiko_work> bernie, lfaraone: we really don't have the resource for doing that today
<Soyo> When I press import key it says its already imported but my account shows nothing.
<Soyo> I tried creating an additional key and sending it but that did not work either. I don't know which one it looks for... Is it possible to change the orginal pub key?
<lfaraone> kiko_work: understood, makes sense.
<kiko_work> Soyo, that's really odd. it says the key is already imported? what text are you putting in the field?
<bernie> kfogel: yeah, I realize that would not be a "standard" service. We're (bluntly) asking for some special treatment here.
<Soyo> You know I think I used the wrong key, that key shows the uid for openoffice. I made a new key but that one I can't get to work.
<kiko_work> Soyo, so what does the text you're pasting into the field look like?
<bernie> kiko_work: ok, no problem. I'm sure we'll find some rack space within boston greater area :)
<Soyo> 33E4 9*** **** ****...
<kiko_work> Soyo, normally the error message gives you a link to keyserver.ubuntu.com -- did it this time?
<Soyo> yes
<Soyo> maybe I used the keyserver command wrong..
<Soyo> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys
<Soyo> did I miss a parameter there?
<kfogel> bernie: *nod*  I can ask; not sure whether Canonical will want to do that, though.  It's a big step, b/c the LP admins work exclusively on Launchpad.net right now.
<kiko_work> Soyo, no, that looks right -- what's your keyid? (you can share it, the public key is exactly that -- public)
<Soyo> The pub is 33E4 9EFD 7816 9ABF 8E94  0EBB E6C9 71CC A28C 3733
<bernie> kfogel: thanks... I realize we're creating a big deal of inconvenience to you (and all our partners, actually)
<Soyo> Error handling request
<Soyo> Error handling request: No keys found
<kiko_work> Soyo, try doing a
<Soyo> (from keyserver.ubuntu.com)
<bernie> kfogel: it's hard to be a fast-growing project with very low budget
<kiko_work> gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-key A28C3733
<kiko_work> Soyo, and see if that works?
<Soyo> ok
<kfogel> bernie: oh, it's no inconvenience, don't worry.  So, after some discussion here (we were able to do it in real-time), it looks like support from our LP admins for external Launchpad instances is not on the table.  It's not just a matter of resources (though that's part of it); it's also that it's just not aligned with our direction really.
<kfogel> Sorry we can't offer that.
<Soyo> took longer thats a good sign..
<Soyo> nice thats what it was thanks so much for the help!
<kiko_work> Soyo, cool, enjoy :)
<kiko_work> Soyo, just so you know, the key-id is the last 8 characters of your fingerpring
<kiko_work> fingerprint
<kiko_work> that's what I used to send-key
<Soyo> Yeah I guess the plural --send-keys must not work for me
<Soyo> or still requires the key-ids anyway
<Soyo> Thanks again
 * kiko_work waves
<kiko_work> outta here!
<kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: from Edwin Grubbs, one of our devs: "It might be possible for sugarlabs to use mod_proxy plus
<kfogel> mod_proxy_html to rewrite not just the requesting urls but also the
<kfogel> urls in links appearing in the response. I've never used it before, so
<kfogel> I don't know if there are any gotchas.
<kfogel> http://apache.webthing.com/mod_proxy_html/
<kfogel> "
<kfogel> bernie, lfaraone: getting *that* technique working is something we'd be very interested in, btw.  As in, if you do it, I think we'd want to write it up so other people can do it too.  If it involves some changes in our Apache configuration or even in Launchpad, that might not be a showstopper, depending on what's needed.
<lfaraone> kfogel: interesting... although I always heard that mod_proxy was painfully slow.
<lfaraone> I'll see if I can take a look at it.
<kfogel> lfaraone: ok
<bernie> lfaraone: yes, you do one extra http connection for each request. actually 2: one client-side, one server-side
<bernie> kfogel, lfaraone: why wouldn't mod_rewrite also work for us? there's a special type of rewrite that works like a proxy
 * bernie reads the description of mod_proxy_html
<bernie> oh, I see...
<bernie> understood
<kfogel> lfaraone, bernie: got some more feedback internally.  privmsg me a good email addr to send it to.
<ripps> Has the Karmic iso downloading slowed down enough yet that someone can throw an i386 ppa builder for a few hours?
<lfaraone> kfogel: sent
<lfaraone> kfogel: oh, didn't realize you had already sent the email
<popey> what ever happened to the button that showed where someones karmic came from
<popey> https://edge.launchpad.net/~frandieguez/+karma
<popey> i see no link that shows the entire history, I'm sure there used to be one
<beuno> popey, I don't remember there every being one
<popey> pretty sure I'm not on crack, we used to use it for the membership meetings, so i can see how far back and how sporadic someones contributions were
<popey> very handy
<soren> popey: You mean which project?
<popey> no soren I'm sure it listed out the karma, maybe I'm on crack,
<soren> popey: You mean you want to see how much of each type of karma (translations, uploads, bug work, questions, etc.) someone has?
<soren> popey: Oh.
<soren> popey: Oh, I think I know what you mean now.
<popey> it was a big fat list with dates
 * soren does not remember ever seeing such a list.
 * soren remembers wanting to see such a list, though.
<mwhudson> noodles775: still here?
<lfaraone> kfogel: hm. upon futher meditation, I think that we might need something more complex than what Deliverance or mod_proxy provides. (I'll have to look at Deliverance closely, though). I'm not sure how we'd have Deliverance check "if project link is NOT in superproject foo, redirect!", for example)
<kfogel> lfaraone: mrmrm.  I'm not an expert by any means -- was really just passing on the others' thoughts.  I wouldn't be surprised if you have to do more, yeah.
<wgrant> I'm confused.
<lfaraone> kfogel: mk. So, should we still post to the ML about it, to ask how difficult it'd be to do server-side?
<wgrant> Why are we discussing phishing?
<kfogel> wgrant: ? we are?
<kfogel> lfaraone: sure.  what you're discussing is, in essence, a launchpad feature that we either do have, or don't have, need some more work to have :-).
<wgrant> I haven't read the whole conversation, but it looks to me like there is a discussion going on about proxying LP under a domain used by somebody else, which sounds very dangerous and rather like phishing.
<kfogel> wgrant: it is dangerous, but the intent is custom domain branding, not phishing.
<lfaraone> wgrant: well, we'd need some SSO magic and we'd redirect logins to launchpad, but essentially, yes.
<lfaraone> wgrant: what kfogel said.
<wgrant> But it sounds like you'd have lots of LP cookies, which is completely unsafe.
<lfaraone> wgrant: ideally, we'd CNAME to something.launchpad.net and you'd have all the cookies.
<lfaraone> wgrant: we'd be happy to have all the people with access to our DNS sign a agreement with canonical to not be evil.
<kfogel> wgrant, lfaraone: I'm afk in a moment, but this is a technical discussion that needs to happen obviously.  Don't let my absence stop you!  I'm not much of a security expert anyway.
<lfaraone> wgrant: do you think this could be done in a way that would be acceptable, security-wise, to you?
<lfaraone> *do you
<wgrant> I have nothing to do with anything.
<wgrant> I'm just a rather scared user at the moment.
 * jpds hugs wgrant.
<lfaraone> wgrant: okay. essentially, we'd like dev.sugarlabs.org to be where subprojects of Sugarlabs reside.
<lifeless> kfogel: what do you mean by 'custom domain branding'
<wgrant> The way I could see it done is have branded domains with privileges limited by project.
<wgrant> That would be useful for launchpadlib users too.
<kfogel> lifeless: some people want to use launchpad.net, but want their URLs to say "mydomainhere.com"
<lifeless> lfaraone: do you want custom look, or custom url?
<lfaraone> lifeless: URL, primarily.
<kfogel> lifeless: I sent a mail on internal canonical-launchpad list about this, actually.
<lifeless> lfaraone: and do you need partitioning (only sugarlabs things show up)
<lifeless> lfaraone: and finally, is it for entry-to - that is you want to be able to hand out stable urls, or is it the title bar has to say dev.s.o ?
<lfaraone> lifeless: partitioning would be useful.
<lfaraone> lifeless: The latter.
<lifeless> wgrant: if d.s.o has the cookies, can foo.s.o or s.o use them ?
<lfaraone> lifeless: so a redirect wouldn't suffice, if that's what you were indicating.
<lifeless> wgrant: I though cookies descended down, not up.
<wgrant> lifeless: Not if they're restricted to d.s.o, no.
<lifeless> lfaraone: just grokking the space
<lifeless> kfogel: yes, I recall that mail
<wgrant> lifeless: But it's still going to involve the owners of sugarlabs.org having privileges over far more than Sugar Labs projects.
<lfaraone> lifeless: if we were to restrict the cookies to SSL only, and were to purchase a SSL certificate and transfer the generated certificate to you in a way where we would not have a copy of it, then even if we changed the DNS we'd not be able to access LP cookies IIRC
<lfaraone> *you were to restrict
<wgrant> lfaraone: You'd just need to get a new certificate.
<wgrant> lfaraone: Cookies are bound to the domain name (and potentially protocol), not the certificate.
<lfaraone> wgrant: Sugarlabs.org is owned by the Software Freedom Law Centre. Hardly a security risk.
<wgrant> (sadly)
<lifeless> lfaraone: you'd be able to switch the DNS to a new server with a new certificate, if you were to go evil.
<wgrant> lfaraone: Given what Launchpad controls access to...
<lfaraone> wgrant: well, then the cookies can be keyed per domain, so that the SL LP cookies don't work on LP.net
<wgrant> lfaraone: Exactly what I suggested should be done. Allow a cookie to be restricted to some group of projects.
<wgrant> So SL can break SL projects, but nothing else.
<lfaraone> wgrant: ah.
<wgrant> That sounds like it would be useful in general, anyway.
<lifeless> lfaraone: lp's code base needs to be extended to do that, but yes.
<lfaraone> lifeless: okay. now, on the other part, partitioning, is that going to be difficult?
<lifeless> lfaraone: I refuse to estimate difficulty for stuff I won't be doing :)
<lifeless> lfaraone: because I *will* get it wrong, and hilarity ensues.
<lfaraone> lifeless: I bet.
<lfaraone> lifeless: I'll see if I can con a fellow student into doing it / teaching me how to do it.
<lifeless> however, it might be possible to do a 'hack' where d.s.o gets 'rooted' at a project group and adds that to various searches
<lifeless> I strongly imagine that this would be a bug-prone approach
<lfaraone> lifeless: riiight. if someone could change the superprojects of SL on the SL LP site, they could add any projject?
<lifeless> lfaraone: thats one aspect, another is that things like searches and views and related $foo don't go through a single choke-point at the moment
<lifeless> so there isn't a single place we can change to say 'only show if related to $group-x'
<lfaraone> lifeless: it's not the end of the world if searches include non LP projects.
<lfaraone> *non-SL LP
<lfaraone> lifeless: the important thing is that if you click onto a non-SLLP project, you be redirected to lp.net
<lifeless> lfaraone: I suspect that will be tricky too, but I could be surprised.
<lifeless> this isn't something LP is engineered to do :(
<lfaraone> lifeless: I see. if anything, it'd be expensive.
<lfaraone> in terms of computing power.
<wgrant> That redirection bit wouldn't be too difficult, I don't think.
<wgrant> canonical_url is already set up to do similar things.
<kirkland> could someone get this git import working again for me: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/qemu-kvm/git
<lfaraone> wgrant: well, we'd have to do something like "if projecname not in sugarlabs.subprojects: return 'REDIRECT http://foo.bar"
<lfaraone> wgrant: that's a lot of lookups.
<wgrant> lfaraone: Not compared to the number of queries executed already, and it could easily be cached.
<wgrant> But anyway, that's only a tiny subset of the issue.
<lfaraone> wgrant: Okay. In your mind, what is the most difficult part?
<lfaraone> I'm not too familiar with Zope in general, nor Launchpad specifically.
<wgrant> I cannot say.
#launchpad 2009-11-04
<Laney> hm
<Laney> Should I get reject emails if someone signs+uploads a package to their PPA but leaves me in Changed-By?
<wgrant> I don't think so.
<wgrant> Unless you have upload privileges to that PPA, I think.
<Laney> http://dpaste.com/116006/
<Laney> I think that's what happened here?
 * wgrant checks the code.
<wgrant> Hm.
<wgrant> It should only email changed-by or maintainer if the upload was not to a PPA.
<wgrant> Any idea to where it was uploaded?
<Laney> all I have is this email
<Laney> You are receiving this email because you are the uploader, maintainer or
<Laney> signer of the above package.
<lfaraone> .ckear
<wgrant> I wonder if it was in fact uploaded to the primary archive.
<Laney> those mails come from "Ubuntu Installer"
<jpds> Might of been aiming for http://tinyurl.com/yjphghl .
<Laney> I reckon so
<wgrant> Laney: They should, yes. But if the uploader uploaded to ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu, it will be from Launchpad PPA
<wgrant> I would file a bug, since there are no Soyuz people around at the moment.
<wgrant> Give the full email there, ideally including the headers and rationale.
<wgrant> There's a bug somewhere, but it's unclear exactly where without logs.
<blackh> Can someone help? Why can I not upload binary packages to a PPA???
<wgrant> blackh: Why would you want to, when Launchpad will build them itself?
<wgrant> There is a good reason to disallow it: if Launchpad builds all the binaries itself, I can be sure that the binaries are built from the sources that I see.
<wgrant> If you upload binaries that you build yourself, I cannot trust them.
<blackh> wgrant: OK - I see.  But not very helpful for me.  I've already built my packages and there was some trickery due to a package with the same name in the standard builds.  I would need to go through all the same suffering over again (only on an unfamiliar environment) to get launchpad to build them.
<wgrant> blackh: Do you not have a source package that you can easily build the binaries from?
<blackh> I have the source packages... but if you build them "straight", builddep gets the wrong version of ghc.  I could fix it by hacking them all to refer to more specific versions... so basically I need to figure out whether I should do this, or whether I should give up and host them myself.
<wgrant> You should really fix the source packages, or they're not useful for anytbody else.
<wgrant> The point of a source package is to directly build the binaries easily.
<blackh> One of the packages builds ghc-6.10.4-1, and the standard packages for karmic have ghc-6.10.4-ubuntu2 (iirc)
<blackh> These are just grabbed from Debian.
<wgrant> "One of the packages" being a new version of ghc?
<wgrant> So you need a newer version of ghc?
<blackh> Yes....  78 packages in all
<wgrant> If you upload the new version of ghc first and wait for it to build, all the subsequent builds will use that version of ghc.
<blackh> Ah - that could be my solution, then.
<wgrant> Builds are pretty slow at the moment, because most of the build machines are currently serving Ubuntu downloads because of the release of 9.10.
<wgrant> But they should speed up soon.
<blackh> wgrant: Your help is very much appreciated - thanks.
<wgrant> np
<RenatoSilva> what happens if I delete a translation branch which is target for the automatic exports?
<RenatoSilva> I want to delete it because I don't let the translations get into trunk automatically, I have an extra branch to analyse the work first, then commit it to the main line
<RenatoSilva> well, never mind. I think I don't need export branches
<doctormo> If there any experts here this evening, I have a question related to ssh keys for a launchpad intergration project.
<wgrant> !ask | doctormo
<ubottu> doctormo: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<doctormo> Is it possible to have more than one ssh key? how are they aranged? what is the difference between a key in id_rsa and id_dsa?
<ajmitch> certainly possible to have more than one
<doctormo> The reason is that if I want to automated the creation of ssh keys for launchpad use, I don't want to squash existing keys and I want it to play nice.
<ajmitch> the difference between them is the algorithm used to generate it
<doctormo> ajmitch: No practical reasons? no different uses for each one?
<wgrant> In Launchpad (as with a normal authorized_keys file), you just add new keys separated by line breaks.
<wgrant> You should probably use RSA keys now.
<ajmitch> you can read up on the differences if you want, I can't remember which one is recommended (RSA i think)
<wgrant> DSA is losing favour.
<ajmitch> you can also tell your ssh client to use specific keys to connect to various hosts
<doctormo> wgrant: Right, on the persons machine can I do that in id_rsa too? just add a new line to indicate a new private key?
<wgrant> I don't think so.
<ajmitch> id_rsa is just the default name
<ajmitch> you can have them named something else
<ajmitch> id_rsa_key_for_silly_launchpad_stuff
<ajmitch> & then use the IdentityFile option in the ~/.ssh/config to use that for launchpad hosts
<doctormo> ajmitch: Sounds like the perfect plan to make sure there are no conflicts, offer the use the choice to use an existing key, or make a special one that won't conflict later.
<doctormo> thanks guys
<ajmitch> I hope it works out
<ajmitch> whatever you're trying to do there :)
<RenatoSilva> does the loggerhead support for tags include tag urls?
<mwhudson> RenatoSilva: no
<RenatoSilva> ok, bug 473691
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 473691 in loggerhead "Tag urls" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/473691
<RenatoSilva> is there any work for supporting download urls in Loggerhead?
<RenatoSilva> The web ui for hg has this, so you can download a .zip for the branch easily, including tags, for example http://server/project/tip/download
<spiv> Not off the top of my head, but it might not be hard to add, depending on what exactly you want.
<RenatoSilva> download a tree
<spiv> (I'm not an expert in hacking on loggerhead, though, so I might be wildly underestimating the difficulty)
<RenatoSilva> currently, we need to bzr branch it
<mwhudson> someone worked on that a bit i think
<spiv> What do you mean by "a tree"?  The obvious meaning I can think of doesn't make sense with your "including tags" request.
<RenatoSilva> I think bug 246764 is what I want. Unfortunately the work is abandoned :(
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 246764 in loggerhead "Recreate "Download a Directory" feature" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/246764
<RenatoSilva> spiv: forget about the tags, it's a separate bug
<spiv> Ok
<RenatoSilva> spiv: I want something like this: http://www.sheep.art.pl/devel/mandarin/archive/tip.zip
<spiv> So basically you want a way for loggerhead to generate a "bzr export" for you.
 * spiv nods
<spiv> That would be the bug/feature mwhudson just mentioned
<RenatoSilva> spiv: it's not a static tip.zip, it's a tag tip (or default tag meaning the last rev), and an instruction to get the branch as zip
<spiv> Yes, understood.
<spiv> Until someone implements it natively in loggerhead, the simplest workaround I can think of would be a cronjob that runs "bzr export" and puts the zip file somewhere HTTP accessible.  Not sure how you'd then make that file easily discoverable from loggerhead, I don't know much about customising it.
<RenatoSilva> you mean the bug /I/ mentioned?
<spiv> Oh, sorry, yes.
<RenatoSilva> ok, I'll just subscribe and `affects me too`then
<lifeless> spiv: it was implemented in loggerhead
<lifeless> spiv: its disabled on lp
<lifeless> for reasons of fear
<RenatoSilva> so the bug info is outdated
<RenatoSilva> fear of badwidth overhead?
<lifeless> oh, the per-directory export bug? Not sure if that feature got completed; I did the work in bzrlib to permit loggerhead to do it
<RenatoSilva> is it available in bzr? bzr export does not support specific directories right?
<lifeless> yes it does
<RenatoSilva> can't find in the help, let me see
<RenatoSilva> ok, so the sub-dir thing is what you has implemented right? So it just needs to have a link in the loggerhead ui, right
<RenatoSilva> it would not be that hard as bzr already has the feature
<MTecknology> 503 Service Unavailable
<MTecknology> No server is available to handle this request.
<MTecknology> hurray!
<MTecknology> Is https://login.launchpad.net/+openid down?
<wgrant> WFM
<MTecknology> wgrant: musta just hated me for a couple minutes
<rowinggolfer> ok, so the estimated build time for a package in my ppa is now 31 hours.
<rowinggolfer> :(
<wgrant> It would be nice if one of the lpia builders could be reassigned to i386 :(
<noodles775> losa: can we do wgrant's suggestion above - given the backlog of i386 builds?
<mthaddon> noodles775: we'd need to confirm with the soyuz devs and/or ubuntu osa (lamont)
<wgrant> noodles775: It's difficult -- it would need a change in the image :(
<noodles775> Yeah, we need to hassle IS to get back all the normal ppa builders. bigjools is trying to do so.
<wgrant> Even just one or two extra on i386 would make things muuuch better.
<fwest> can i run my own launchpad server internally?
<maxb> fwest: Annoyingly, no, not without an awful lot of effort.
<fwest> oh shame
<maxb> The Launchpad licence for the *code* is opensource. The images&icons, however, are not
<maxb> So basically, the first thing you would have to do is replace all of the visual branding with your own unencumbered version
<rowinggolfer> would be an opportunity to improve the css though ;)
<\sh> moins
<Meths> Is launchpad a tm too?
<\sh> guys, why is Lucid Lynx not shown on the overview page of a package in ubuntu?
<maxb> exact link please
<\sh> maxb, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zend-framework (see #u-m)
<Laney> \sh: scroll down
<\sh> Laney, yeah saw it...will this be fixed somehow?
<wgrant> Bug 464014
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 464014 in launchpad-registry "DistributionSourcePackageView.active_series sorts versions as strings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/464014
<wgrant> (targetted to LP 3.1.11, 2009-12-05)
<Laney> are the i386 virtual builders backed up?
<Laney> (delayed I mean)
<wgrant> https://launchpad.net/builders
<wgrant> They've been stolen as release mirrors.
<Laney> bah
<siretart> wgrant: just curious, will your source v3 format branch go live with tomorrow's launchpad upgrade?
<wgrant> siretart: No. Depending on how rapidly Debian adopts the new formats, it may be cherrypicked before 3.1.11, but it may not.
<siretart> wgrant: the new formats are being accepted since a few days for unstable. I see a lot of package with this format being uploaded the last few days
<siretart> and I expect more and more DDs to switch
<wgrant> siretart: There were only ~15 yesterday, but that number is rapidly ascending. I am watching closely, and I'm sure the distro team will poke if it becomes too critical.
<siretart> ok
<wgrant> The LP code is done, but there are buildd changes required which I intend to discuss tomorrow morning.
<siretart> I was considering switching myself, but I'm not even sure how merge debian changes if I did
<siretart> ok, thanks a lot for your work on this!
<wgrant> np
<siretart> wgrant: other question: how difficult would it be to setup an launchpad instance that accepts and autobuilds packages packages for debian? - in essence, a private debian PPA?
<siretart> compared to setting up e.g. a dak/wanna-build/buildd instance
<Meths> I've seen no feedback what-so-ever on bug 435857
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 435857 in launchpad "CSS bug with Firefox on Windows XP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435857
<Meths> Are CSS bugs low priority or are devs unable to reproduce or want more info?
<wgrant> siretart: While I've tried a few times, I've never succeeded in setting up dak/wanna-build/buildd. LP took me just few hours to work out and document. So it's pretty easy.
<wgrant> siretart: Although using an external non-Soyuzish archive like Debian is rather hackish, it works.
<wgrant> http://williamgrant.id.au/f/1/2009/running-soyuz.html, if you are sufficiently brave/stupid.
<james_w> wgrant: what will happen if we try and autosync packages in the new format?
<wgrant> james_w: BOOM!
<james_w> oh
<james_w> yay
<wgrant> james_w: In other words, the autosyncer will crash, and you'll need to blacklist the package to get it working again.
<james_w> that will be fun on Monday
<wgrant> I wonder if I can get the trivial fix to make it just reject them into the reroll.
<wgrant> bigjools: ^^ one-liner in dak_utils.py fixes autosyncer crash. Would be nice to have.
<bigjools> wgrant: sure, send in an MP and I'll make sure it gets in
<wgrant> bigjools: Will do. Not sure exactly how the reroll works.
<bigjools> no different from normal really, except we don't take anything down
<bigjools> (unless necessary)
<wgrant> bigjools: So it's a full rollout across everything?
<bigjools> wgrant: AFAIK it's just to stuff that needs it
<wgrant> bigjools: Ah.
<bigjools> but the losas can tell you more
<wgrant> I doubt there are any tests for this (it is semicoloned Python imported from dak, used only by sync-source.py). :(
<bigjools> if there are tests for it I'll be surprised
<wgrant> Also, tabs. Ew.
<siretart> wgrant: looks interesting. thanks for the link!
<wgrant> siretart: It's much easier now than when I started, since the dev keyserver is more helpful and rocketfuel-setup does a lot more of the Soyuz configuration. But lp-buildd still needs a few manual changes.
<james_w> wgrant: thanks
<siretart> wgrant: ok, I guess it might indeed be worth to have a closer look
<wgrant> Is the code in lp_archive@cocoplum:~/syncs/flush-syncs available somewhere? Would be nice to just see how it will handle rejections.
<bigjools> an archive admin should be able to help you
<wgrant> james_w: ^^?
<james_w> it runs ~/sync-queue/process-incoming.sh
<james_w> and dies if that fails
<james_w> there's also find ~lp_archive/syncs/ -name '*.gz' -o -name '*.dsc' -o -name '*.changes' > ~lp_archive/syncs/flush-syncs-list
<james_w> I don't think that needs adjusting for any new extensions?
<wgrant> Argh. That'll need fixing too.
<wgrant> It needs *.bz2.
<james_w> and process-incoming.sh runs process-upload.py -d ubuntu -C sync
<james_w> stop me if you have these scripts
<wgrant> I don't.
<wgrant> Well, I have process-upload.py
<james_w> cool
<james_w> if a shell script isn't -e
<james_w> is it's exit code always 0, or the exit code of the last thing that it runs?
<wgrant> I don't think process-upload.py will return a failure code just because it rejects an upload.
<james_w> the latter
<james_w> so yeah, all this depends on how process-upload.py handles the rejections
<james_w> and we have possibly similar issues with backports
<james_w> I guess we can't backport newer source formats?
<wgrant> Technically you could take them back to Karmic, but you'd have to convince somebody to enable the new format there. I don't think dpkg in <= Jaunty will like the new formats much.
<wgrant> I'm not sure how backport-source.py works, as it's not in the tree, but I think I saw it in some ubuntu-archive branch somewhere.
<james_w> ubuntu-archive-tools
<Laney> Is it possible to have a PPA build rescored? I'd appreciate gtk2hs/i386 on ~laney/ppa being bumped up some if so... trying to fix a build failure that seems to not happen locally.
<james_w> but I don't know if the meat is there or on cocoplum
<james_w> Laney: it is, those with usual buildd powers can do it for PPAs as well
<Laney> oh sexy
<wgrant> james_w: flush-backports is similar to flush-syncs?
<james_w> wgrant: pretty much identical
<wgrant> james_w: OK. process-upload.py returns 0 even if an upload was rejected, so it should be fine.
<james_w> just uses a different directory to pull the source packages from
<james_w> that's fine
<james_w> I was more worried that it would stop at the first rejection
<wgrant> Oh, no, it's not that crazy.
<james_w> ace
<james_w> thanks for checking
<wgrant> So, your tools should be fine once Soyuz gets v3 support, as long as bz2 is added as an extension to match.
<james_w> I can make the same modification to flush-backports as the archive will reject any new formats?
<wgrant> Right.
<james_w> yeah, I just added it to flush-syncs
<james_w> I'll add it to flush-backports
<james_w> thanks
<wgrant> Now I just have to work out how the heck the buildds are going to work.
<bigjools> Laney: give me the build URL and I'll rescore it
<bigjools> james_w: did you request some sessions for us at UDS to talk about Build From Branch?
<Laney> thanks bigjools, it's https://launchpad.net/~laney/+archive/ppa/+build/1319012
<james_w> bigjools: haven't yet
<bigjools> Laney: done
<Laney> thanks
<Laney> hopefull I won't have to hassle again ;)
<bigjools> good :)
<Laney> stupid non reproducible problems
<bigjools> james_w: ok, or I can do it, but I don't know where to go :)
<james_w> bigjools: nope, I'll speak to robbie
<bigjools> cool thanks
<cr3> hey folks, I'm trying to propose a branch for merging against karmic-proposed and I entered "ubuntu/karmic-proposed/checkbox" in the target branch, but I get the error "invalid value"
<james_w> jml: does +branch work over bzr+ssh?
<jml> james_w, no. there's an open bug for making it do so, though
<jml> james_w, simple matter of programming
<james_w> ok, thanks
<ScottL_> the iridium ppa builder seems stuck (it has been building openclipart for over 2 days) can someone look into this? https://launchpad.net/builders/iridium
<ScottL_> colin watson is building it but cant' look at it right now and asked me to mention it here
<Meths> ScottL_: I think the builders are currently reassigned as release mirrors
<ScottL_> Meths: but it's been building for over 2 days on the same build - it looks like an error in the build log
<Meths> ScottL_: Agreed, looks broke in the logs.
<Meths> Looks like they're back building too.
<glen> i'm setting up translation for a project, i see some templates in import queue (https://translations.launchpad.net/eventum/+imports), what (who) should approve these? project manager? launchpad manager?
<glen> from dropdown i can only choose between "deleted" and "needs review"
<henninge_> glen: approval of translations happens automatically if the files can be associated with a template and a language
<ScottL_> Meths: Is there someone I should mention this to directly? to try to get it fixed?
<glen> henninge_: how do i associate the translation with template(pot?)+language?
<henninge_> glen: template: same directory as the template
<henninge_> glen: language: file name is a valid language code
<henninge_> glen: your files look good on both counts
<henninge_> glen: so just be patient, it may take a few hours as the approval script is often very busy
<henninge_> same goes for the import script ... ;)
<glen> ah. that could explain things
<Meths> ScottL_: Sorry, don't know.  You could try sending an email to the buildd admins.
<ScottL_> Meths: ah, I did that already :(    well, I tried, it will get fixed at some point
<kb9vqf> Any chance more i386 PPA builders could be brought online?
 * kb9vqf notes the queue is at 44 HOURS!
<kb9vqf> ;)
<ScottL_> kb9vqf: one of the builders (iridium) appears to be stuck, which is backing up the queue
<kb9vqf> OK, just wanted to let someone know
<ScottL_> kb9vqf: that's why I'm here too ;)
<kb9vqf> :)
<kb9vqf> A user wanted knetstats-kde3...hopefully he'll have it before the weekend
<jcastro> hi everyone, marjo needs the right permissions to be able to approve blueprints for the uds-l sprint
<jcastro> currently the qa folks are submitting blueprints but marjo can't approve them
<avar> Hi I'm consistently getting an internal error when I submit something on this page: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
<avar> Weâve recorded what happened, and weâll fix it as soon as possible. Apologies for the inconvenience.
<avar> Trying again in a couple of minutes might work.
<avar> (Error ID: OOPS-1404B2436)
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1404B2436
<XiXaQ> have I understood correctly, that Ubuntu on launchpad no longer wants usability bug reports?
<avar> it also says I'm a member of the ubuntu beta testers team and that the edge server sucks, but the "disable redirection" button doesn't seem to work
 * Meths is having probs reaching bazaar. too.
<XiXaQ> for instance. It hit me that the first time a user launches Transmission without a torrent file argument (that is, launches it from the menu), it should popup a welcome dialog explaning that Firefox already is configured to use Transmission for downloading torrents. That's not a Transmission bug, I think. It's a distro bug. and it's not a "problem" to be reported, it's just a usability issue. How am I supposed to report that now?
<avar> XiXaQ: file something at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect ?
<XiXaQ> avar, ok, I got the impression that the point was to discourage people from filing non-crash bugs?
<avar> XiXaQ: Dunno, just try
<XiXaQ> ok, thanks.
<jcastro> can someone help me sort out marjo's blueprint permission thing? It's blocking the QA team from adding sessions for UDS
<jcastro> jml, could you point me in the right direction perhaps?
<rockstar> jcastro, what's up?
<jcastro> rockstar, ~marjo-mercado needs to be able to approve/decline blueprints for the uds-l sprint
<jcastro> I don't know if he's supposed to be in a certain group or ... ?
<rockstar> sinzui, ^^
<sinzui> jcastro: I suspect that marjo-mercado must be a driver for something
 * sinzui needs to read code to know what something is
<jcastro> sinzui, aha! maybe "UDS Organizers"
 * jcastro goes off to try
<sinzui> jcastro: I think you are right
<james_w> the Debian import seems to be quite out of date
<james_w> is it generally unreliable?
<james_w> it doesn't seem to be as reliable as I would like
<bigjools> james_w: can you ping a losa about it
<james_w> mbarnett: hi, would you be able to check that the Debian import is running for us?
<mbarnett> james_w: sure, give me a few minutes.. have to wrap up some deploy tasks then i can take a look.. (i might have to hit you up for more info at that point as well) ..
<james_w> I'm trying to find some indication of what the "Debian import" actually is in anticipation of that ;-)
<bigjools> mbarnett, james_w: it's "gina"
<bigjools> runs on iron.c.c
<james_w> aha!
<james_w> I tried to think of a package that would have been imported in the last few days, and went for a v3.0 one as that's only been in the last week
<james_w> that package certainly won't be up to date
<james_w> is it possible that gina stops as soon as it hits one?
<james_w> ok, it's not as bad as I thought
<james_w> it looks to be up to date as of about 20 hours ago, except for new source format packages
<james_w> bigjools: is it run from cron?
<bigjools> yes, twice a day IIRC
<bigjools> wgrant found the problem with v3 packages, I think he has a fix ready
<james_w> cool
<james_w> any chance we could crank that to four times a day?
<bigjools> not sure if it blocks the whole run or just that package
<james_w> since Debian has 4xdinstall a day now
<bigjools> oh yes in that  case we should do that
<james_w> let me get you the times
<james_w> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/12/msg00955.html
<bigjools> cheers
<james_w> bigjools: would you like a bug for this or similar?
<wgrant> james_w: I verified last night that gina will just skip v3 packages, and I know how to fix it.
<wgrant> However I can't fix it until most of the rest of LP supports v3.
<james_w> wgrant: thanks for looking at it
<bigjools> james_w: I just need to file an RT about it, will sort it tomorrow
<james_w> thanks
<james_w> mbarnett: thanks, but it seems to be running fine, so we don't need the check now.
<mbarnett> james_w: yay!
<bigjools> gina is bug-free (according to kiko) :)
<fta> in a ppa/+packages page, when i try to unfold a release to see the details, most of the time, it jumps to a +listing-archive-extra page with no css :(
<james_w> OOPS-1404D3213
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1404D3213
<james_w> am I reading it wrong, or is that reporting lots of repeated SQL statements? ^
<jml> james_w, you are reading it correctly
<james_w> any idea why that might be happening?
<jml> james_w, badly written code
<jml> james_w, it's not infinite repetition
<jml> james_w, if you look carefully, you'll see the '%s' -- that's probably substituted with a different value each time
<jml> james_w, ORMs make it really, really easy to write code like 'for x in xs: x.doExpensiveQuery()'
<james_w> I'm calling this over the API
<james_w> is it my code that's wrong?
<james_w> I guess not as it wouldn't be one GET then
<jml> james_w, right, that's my impression
<james_w> I'm not sure what would have changed here
<jml> james_w, what are you GETting?
<wgrant> What's the request?
<jml> james_w, distro_series=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.launchpad.net%2Fbeta%2Fubuntu%2Flucid&status=Published&ws.op=getPublishedSources&ws.start=1950&ws.size=75
<jml> on /beta/ubuntu/+archive/primary
 * jml looks up the implementation for getPublishedSources
<james_w> ah, request variables, neat
<jml> james_w, some problems we nailed years ago :)
<jml> james_w, this is not a post-pint function
<jml> at least, not for reading.
<james_w> heh
<james_w> well, it's not explicitly adding that %s
<mwhudson> 42 select person.* from person where id = %s should really not take 8 seconds
<james_w> yeah
<james_w> and why are they repeated through the query log as well
<james_w> ?
<jml> james_w, the %s is something the OOPS log does
<jml> james_w, I think
<jml> or something
<james_w> it's almost like I'm pipelining multiple queries in to one GET
<jml> james_w, are you looping calls to  getPublishedSources?
<james_w> yes
<james_w> partitioning on distro_series so that it doesn't timeout ironically
<jml> intriguing
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/309984/
<mwhudson> sounds like the implementation of getPublishedSources isn't very good
<wgrant> It looks fine.
<jml> james_w, icommon.lp_call?
<james_w> heh
<mwhudson> or maybe something lazr.restful is made of crack
<jml> james_w, what is that?
<james_w> http://paste.ubuntu.com/309987/
<jml> james_w, :(
<mwhudson> oh the repeated query isn't the one from getPublishedSources
<mwhudson> i think it's from getFilesForSources
<mwhudson> nope
<wgrant> It's not from some permission-checking stuff?
<mwhudson> getChangesFilesForSources
<mwhudson> maybe indirectly
<mwhudson> ok; theory: it's because changes_file_url is a @property on SourcePackagePublishingHistory
<mwhudson> so when lazr.restful is serializing the spph it accesses this property, which runs that query
<wgrant> Isn't it more likely to be on the signer property?
<wgrant> Or is the person query not the big one?
<mwhudson> that's a bit just plain odd
<mwhudson> there are repeated person queries, but not that many
<mwhudson> and they really should be fast (1-2ms each)
<james_w> that sounds plausible
<mwhudson> heh most of them are
<mwhudson> but one took 7.9 seconds
<mwhudson> probably some kind of locking thing in the db
<wgrant> Ah.
<mwhudson> james_w: is this reproducable?
<jml> do you know what ws.size=75 implies?
<james_w> possibly
<james_w> just running locally
<mwhudson> jml: it's the batch size i think
<jml> because there are 74 reps of that query
<mwhudson> jml: i bet there would be 75 if it hadn't timed out
<jml> mwhudson, :)
<james_w> makes sense
<mwhudson> moral of the story?  don
<mwhudson> don
<mwhudson> don't make exported attributes expensive to compute
<lifeless> win 38
<jml> mwhudson, worth writing that one down, I reckon
<james_w> so, bug on soyuz to make that cheaper or a method?
<mwhudson> jml: definitely
<james_w> and then a workaround to avoid hitting the issue?
<mwhudson> jml: oh, i thought you said that in #launchpad-dev :)
<mwhudson> james_w: yes a bug on soyuz
<jml> mwhudson, heh
<mwhudson> james_w: not sure what a workaround would be, you might be able to get the client to move across the collection in smaller chunks
<mwhudson> i.e. it seems to be fetching 75 at a time, doing 20 at a time would be correspondingly less likely to time out
<mwhudson> james_w: maybe you can say
 * jml is off to bed
<mwhudson> collection = getPublishedSources(...)
<mwhudson> for i in range(0, len(collection), 10):
<mwhudson>   for source in collection[i:i+10]:
<mwhudson>    ....
<james_w> if it implements len() :-)
<james_w> bug 474876
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 474876 in soyuz "getPublishedSources can timeout due to getChangesFilesForSources" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/474876
<james_w> if you want to turn it in to LP speak at all
<james_w> yeah, no len() love
<mwhudson> james_w: well just do for i in xrange(0, sys.maxint, 10) and tell when you've fallen off the end somehow i guess
<james_w> and doesn't restfulclient request a page at a time anyway?
<james_w> it's requesting 75, but I'm using __iter__ so I only want 1
<mwhudson> james_w: it looks like __iter__ requests pages as an "optimization"
<james_w> ah, but slicing will cause it to request less
<mwhudson> james_w: but i don't think the slice fetching does
<mwhudson> well, the 75 appears to be under the server's control actually
<mwhudson> james_w: yeah, i think this will work
<james_w> slicing sets ws.size if it thinks it won't need a full page
<mwhudson> yeah
<Laney> Alright fellas, this --- https://launchpad.net/debian/+source/gnome-do-docklets/+publishinghistory --- seems not to be correct. Can someone manually kick it, and where should I file the bug (if there is one)?
<Laney> (it's pending, and the package is in testing)
<james_w> Laney: not sure why that's not being shown in testing
<james_w> other packages since then have imported
<james_w> from sid at least
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> requestsync uses this data now
<james_w> so does the bzr importer, so I also want to see it up to date
<Laney> let's bug it
<Laney> do you know which product to file against?
<james_w> just go with launchpad
<wgrant> There's more recent stuff imported from testing as well.
#launchpad 2009-11-05
<Laney> monobristol has the same thing and was uploaded at about the same time, so I'm wondering if something just broke then
<PATX> does this mean i have uploaded a new version of a current ppa: http://patx.me/paste/79038.html
<Laney> PATX: wait for the email from launchpad
<PATX> oh ok!
<PATX> Laney - how long do i have to wait?
<Laney> PATX: few minutes
<poolie> hi
<poolie> when i look at http://code.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/current it says "log in/register"
<poolie> and there are no modification controls
<poolie> however when i click log in, it says "you're already logged in as martin pool"
<poolie> :-(
<poolie> i guess i can try logging in and out but do you want any data first?
<poolie> mwhudson / thumper^^ ?
<mwhudson> poolie: *http*
<mwhudson> poolie: there seems to be some redirection problem
<poolie> yes!
<poolie> how strange
<mwhudson> poolie: https://launchpad.net/bugs/474593
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 474593 in launchpad "Certain URLs don't redirect to SSL" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<poolie> firefox really thinks it's being served over http
<spm> bizzarly - I just saw the same thing on staging...
<poolie> that's kinda cool actually
<spm> argh. can't login to staging at all.
<spm> given the up downs all morning; trying for a full stop/start on asuka. brb.
<spm> oki, so staging is vaguely working again; poolie, I can duplicate (easily) what you're seeing. go to that URL, log-in/register; have checked that I am logged in on both edge and prod. wheee.
<poolie> fixing the url to https by hand fixes it
<poolie> for me
<spm> ahh I missed that and mwh's point out of same.
<poolie> obviously it's still a bug though
<poolie> pretty potentially confusing
<poolie> i might tweet about it
<poolie> http://identi.ca/notice/13796934
<james_w> OOPS-1405D138
<ubottu> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1405D138
 * james_w pats ubottu 
<wgrant> (it's nice and snappy over HTTP!)
<james_w> seems the collection slicing workaround isn't too effective
<james_w> or rather doesn't force the size in enough situations
<poolie> hello james_w
<poolie> wgrant: i know, it's kind of a feature
<wgrant> poolie: Note that all the links are still HTTPS, so clicking on the login link will work.
<poolie> wgrant: if you logout and then login again i guess
<wgrant> poolie: The obvious behaviour, and the one that I was seeing this morning, is that simply clicking on the login link (or any other link) will bring you back to HTTPS, so you are logged in again.
<poolie> clicking the login link takes me to https://code.launchpad.net/libindicator/+activereviews/+login
<poolie> but that's pretty much a dead end
<poolie> if it had a "click to continue" taking you back to the https version of the page you came from it would all be good
<wgrant> Oh. So it does.
<poolie> my response was to press back then reload, and then you're still on http
<WaSeidel> hi all, i have a problem with launchpad and wiki.ubuntu.com i have an account in wiki.ubuntu.com, but as too long time ago i didn't get in to it, i lost mi password now i tried to log in, but i've surprised when i see the integration with launchpad but it ask me for a password or to use other name, i use my old password and i acces it says wrong password try again
<WaSeidel> what time can i found people here? not just bots?
<lifeless> never
<lifeless> sorry, that was childish of me
<wgrant> WaSeidel: What if you try to reset your password through LP?
<WaSeidel> but it reset's me the password on LP not in wiki.ubuntu.com
<wgrant> WaSeidel: Your wiki.ubuntu.com has always been the same as your Launchpad account. It's just that you used to log in directly through the wiki.
<WaSeidel> and the problem it with wiki.ubuntu.com
<wgrant> wiki.ubuntu.com does not have its own authentication system; it uses Launchpad accounts.
<lifeless> wgrant: far enough back it was separate
<WaSeidel> yes and that is the password for the integration with my old account on wiki.ubuntu.com
<wgrant> lifeless: "far enough" being somewhat before mid-2005?
<WaSeidel> no
<WaSeidel> the last year
<WaSeidel> the last time i edited my wiki was in october or september
<WaSeidel> then i travel and i was no acces to internet
<WaSeidel> now i come back and find this
<wgrant> WaSeidel: What happens if you try to reset your password on Launchpad?
<wgrant> wiki.ubuntu.com uses the same accounts, and has for years.
<lifeless> WaSeidel: are you logged into launchpad?
<WaSeidel> it ask me for the password on launchpad i already try it
<WaSeidel> yes
<lifeless> what page are you trying to access on wiki.ubuntu.com?
<WaSeidel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Waseidel
<wgrant> Do you have a "Log in/Register" link at the right of the header of that page?
<WaSeidel> yes
<wgrant> If you click that, you should eventually get taken to a page with a green bar along the top asking you to sign in.
<wgrant> Do you?
<WaSeidel> when i do click there show me a page with this title "Sign in as Walther Seidel?" (on launchpad)
<WaSeidel> i go to try logged out of LP
<wgrant> What happens if you just click Sign In?
<WaSeidel> send me to this page "Launchpad Login Service"
<WaSeidel> askme for my mail and password on launchpad
<wgrant> Weren't you logged into Launchpad before?
<WaSeidel> yes
<wgrant> Did you log out, or did it log you out itself?
<WaSeidel> sorry my english but if you see my wiki im from colombia
<WaSeidel> not i logged out
<WaSeidel> by my self
<wgrant> You did log out yourself, or you didn't?
<WaSeidel> i did logged out by my self
<wgrant> Why?
<WaSeidel> try other things
<wgrant> What if you log in, go back to the 'Launchpad Login Service' page, and click the 'Sign In' button?
<spiv> WaSeidel: ok.  But you need to log in.  The Launchpad login page you see when you follow the "Log in/Register" link from the wiki is how you login to the wiki now.
<WaSeidel> this "The username you have chosen is already taken. If it is your username, enter your password below to associate the username with your OpenID. Otherwise, please choose a different username and leave the password field blank."
<WaSeidel> and this is my old username
<wgrant> Ahh.
<WaSeidel> ask me for the password that i used a long time ago
<wgrant> Just try your current Launchpad password. I think I did that same thing ages ago, but I don't quite remember.
<WaSeidel> i already do that
<WaSeidel> i'll be back i'm going home im at the univercity
<wgrant> I'm not sure who best to ask about this, but it's not a Launchpad problem.
<WaSeidel> then where ?
<lifeless> wgrant: spiv wrote the code I think :)
<WaSeidel> thanks i'll be back
<spiv> lifeless: not the OpenID integration
<wgrant> How does it make sense to ask for the old password?
<wgrant> Doesn't that depend on the authserver, which has ceased to exist?
<spiv> wgrant: it doesn't make much sense to me either
<spiv> wgrant: as the wiki now just uses the name and launchpad URL for identifying users in edit logs etc AFAICT
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> However, it probably attempts to merge the old account.
<wgrant> I remember something of the sort when OpenID was introduced.
<spiv> And it has always used the immutable numeric launchpad user ID in its storage, I thought.
<wgrant> Really? Yuck.
<spiv> Certainly the user's wiki preferences were keyed off that rather than the "wiki name" or anything like that.
<spiv> And I think it used that too in the page histories, so that user renames etc would not break history.
<wgrant> Makes sense.
<lifeless> spiv: no, but the lp<->wiki username stuff...
<lifeless> so, I think he can log in ok if he *doesn't* visit his old user page
<spiv> lifeless: I would have thought that was simply dropped on the floor now that it uses OpenID.
<lifeless> which is why I was asking what page specifically he was visit
<lifeless> in
<wgrant> I think it attempts to link it.
<lifeless> g
<wgrant> Let's see...
<spiv> lifeless: but either way, I know nothing about the current state, except for what I can speculate based on how it used to work :)
<wgrant> My new OpenID account is certainly linked to my pre-OpenID one.
<spiv> Oh, and I dimly recall a certain grim satisfaction when having a "wiki name" was ditched in favour of the regular launchpad nick/fullnames, which is how I always thought it should be... but it sounds like there are still vestiges of that left over.
<ajmitch> maybe it's just those old account that have those wiki names
<ajmitch> since that's what shows for me when I visit the wiki now
<wgrant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilliamGrant?action=info
 * ajmitch could be wrong, haven't edited it for awhile
<wgrant> My old account has been merged into my new one.
<wgrant> Has yours not, ajmitch?
<ajmitch> it has
<wgrant> Hmm.
<spiv> wgrant: right, that's what I mean.  I don't see any sign of the old wiki names on the wiki anymore, *except* for the existence of user pages with those names, but the pages themselves don't seem to be special (e.g. no access control)
<tgm4883> Is it known that the PPA is backed up?
<spm> tgm4883: PPA's are backed up; yes.
<tgm4883> ok, i'm assuming that some build servers were changed over for release?
<alkisg> Hi, I'm thinking of creating/uploading a really big package (200-300 Mb) into my ppa. It will contain a blob of a virtual hard disk (an nbd image) and it will be used for easy LTSP setups. Any reasons against this?
* spm changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad will be down from 0900 UTC until 1030 UTC for a code update | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<ripps> oh come'on, somebody throw us an i386 builder. amd64/lpia = ~4-5 hours, i386 = 36 hours. Clearly i386 isn't keeping up with the other arches
<noodles775> Well, there are a number of factors, but after the Launchpad update in a few hours at least the i386 builders should not be monopolised by single PPAs.
<wgrant> noodles775: Unfortunately all it need then is three daily PPAs :(
<noodles775> yep, running at the same time :/
<noodles775> Hopefully we'll be loaned the other builders again soon.
<kb9vqf> is Lauchpad even accepting new package uploads?  For some reason my upload is silently failing; I.E. the dput succeeds but I don't get a confirmation or rejection Email, and the package doesn't show up in the PPA.
 * kb9vqf notes that this has been occurring all day
<noodles775> kb9vqf: the most common reason is if you've either not signed the pkg, or signed it with a key that launchpad doesn't know about.
<kb9vqf> I signed this package with the same key I've been using for all the hundreds of other packages...odd.
 * kb9vqf goes to recheck the config files
<noodles775> But not, Launchpad will be going down for an upgrade in 1hr40mins anyway.
<noodles775> kb9vqf: gee, that is odd
 * noodles775 tries.
<wgrant> Uploads are being processed fine.
<kb9vqf> Found the problem--apparently if you typo your Email address in the maintainer field it causes this behaviour :)
 * noodles775 updates https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/UploadErrors
<wgrant> noodles775: I don't think there's any reason for that to be a failure rather than a rejection.
<wgrant> The key is known, so we have an email address.
<noodles775> wgrant: Yeah, I'm not sure whether this has been introduced recently, but it's the second time in a few weeks that I've seen it come up as an issue.
<wgrant> noodles775: No -- this has been around for years.
<noodles775> wgrant: ok, so it's possibly just never been fixed, great - another opportunity for improvement :)
<pbryan> If I want to upgrade a package in PPA for karmic, do I need to increment my package version?
<ripps> pbryan: yes, or add extra version tag, suchas foobar_2.0.0-0ubuntu1+extra_tag1
<noodles775> yep... xxxubuntu1~ppa1 -> xxxubuntu1~ppa2
<pbryan> Okay. Thanks, thought so.
<pbryan> And in the changelog, something like "increment version for new packaging"?
<ripps> pbryan: instead of commenting that you've incremented the version, as it's implied with a new vesion, try to explain what exactly has changed from the previous version.
<pbryan> And if nothing has changed?
<pbryan> Other than me incrementing version to coerce it living under karmic instead of hardy?
<ripps> pbryan: than say that, but it should matter what version you have, just as long as the target disrtubution in the changelog is karmic
<pbryan> Well, I can't re-upload 0.10 if it's already in my PPA.
<pbryan> Right?
<pbryan> I'd need to change it to 0.10-1 or the like.
<ripps> pbryan: oh, you should add ~karmic1 to the end of your version string
<pbryan> Oh?
<pbryan> ripps: This is significant?
<pbryan> Or just a convention.
<ripps> pbryan: not really, but it's what most ppa uploaders do
<pbryan> Okay, so change version from 0.10 to 0.10~karmic1.
<pbryan> And is there a common convention for comment in the changelog?
<soren> 0.10 to 0.10~karmic1 will not work.
<soren> 0.10~karmic1 is considered a lower version than 0.10.
<soren> That's the whole point of ~
<ripps> soren: it doesn't matter, because 0.10 in hardy
<soren> It does matter.
<pbryan> Well, this is my own package. I'm not trying to modify an existing Ubuntu package.
<soren> It will reject  your upload saying that there's already a newer version in the archive.
<ripps> technically, it should have had ~hardy1 in his hardy packages.
<pbryan> Ah.
<pbryan> So, 0.11~karmic1?
<soren> pbryan: Or 0.10-karmic1
<soren> Or 0.10-1. If this is entirely your own package, it's very much up to you, really.
<pbryan> Okay.
<pbryan> So, let's say 0.10-1 then
<pbryan> :)
<soren> The point of the ~ppa1 notation is this:
<soren> If you have 0.1.2.3-5ubuntu12 in the archive, and you want to patch it and put it in your PPA..
<pbryan> Right, that makes complete sense.
<soren> ..you give your new package a version of 0.1.2.3-5ubuntu13~ppa1..
<pbryan> But since my package ain't in Ubuntu, the ~ convention isn't particularly useful.
<soren> That way, it's newer than 0.1.2.3-5ubuntu12, but if an official 0.1.2.3-5ubuntu13 turns up, the official one will take precedence.
<pbryan> Right.
<ripps> soren: you could also keep the ubuntu12 and just add +ppa1, and ubuntu13 with still take precedence when released
<pbryan> Thanks ripps, soren, noodles775 for your help.
<soren> ripps: True.
<ripps> i like this way, so users know my package is based of ubuntu12 and it just has a few additions by me
<noodles775> wgrant (and kb9vqf if interested): the original upload with the incorrect name caused this: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35140507/mWrWmk0XCcF5NXAUQL3ouAhHpTl.txt
<noodles775> which looks like it might be a recent issue (well, I know that ensurePerson has been updated not too long ago...)
<noodles775> s/name/email
<wgrant> noodles775: Oh, indeed, that's very recent (probably since the master split a couple of weeks ago). Maybe it was fixed for a while.
<noodles775> wgrant: you haven't created a bug for it have you? I'll do so now otherwise.
<wgrant> noodles775: I haven't.
<pbryan> Hmm, the changes file doesn't seem to contain a reference to the .orig.tar.gz file when I use -1 suffix.
<pbryan> Do I need to specify something with debuild to include it in the changes file?
<noodles775> wgrant: bug 475172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475172 in soyuz "EnsurePerson fails for new maintainers during upload processing" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475172
 * noodles775 sets it to medium.
<wgrant> Let's hope that Curtis is asleep.
<bigjools> sigh, again
<wgrant> Yep.
<wgrant> ensurePerson seems to be cursed.
<wgrant> Almost as much as gina.
<wgrant> (some packages are failing to import -- no idea why)
<bigjools> but Gina is Bug Free (tm)
<wgrant> Â®
<pbryan> :)
<wgrant> It seems a pretty strange failure, though. The SPRs already exist in sid (and in LP), and they migrated to squeeze, but LP does not see them in squeeze.
<soren> â¢
 * apw notes that the launch offline link points you to a page which redirects you to another page which does not contain the current outage
<apw> https://dev.launchpad.net/Maintenance has no mention of today
<noodles775> Thanks apw - updated.
<thekorn> hasn't there been some nicer 503 error pages on launchpad in the past?
<thekorn> by nicer I also mean some more text describing what's going on
<noodles775> yes - that's not normal afaik.
<yos> How long will launchpad be down for ?
<noodles775> 90mins
<yos> cool , thanks
<noodles775> yos: currently upgrading to the latest release, and unfortunately we weren't able to provide read-only access this time.
<glen> 503 Service Unavailable
<glen> laynchpad down?
<sitsofe> Ah the subject says it all
<Phurl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/468320 503 Service Unavailable No server is available to handle this request.
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Ubuntu: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable (https://launchpad.net/bugs/468320)
<wgrant> Phurl: Launchpad is currently offline for an upgrade.
<Phurl> ok
<wgrant> But the error page seems to not be the usual informative one.
<Phurl> what about a cached version?
<Phurl> i would like to know why my system has no sound after an upgrade
<wgrant> Phurl: That's not possible for this particular release. There is a day-old copy of the data at staging.launchpad.net, however.
<Phurl> ok
<sitsofe> Phurl: re sound. There could be a number of reasons
<Phurl> sitsofe, yes? can you show me some help
<sitsofe> Phurl: I'd check alsamixer volumes and whether speaker-test worked
<Phurl> hi all, my sound is not working since upgrade. I have recompiled the alsa according to the comprehensive faq. Stil have no sound cards. http://fmtyewtk.blogspot.com/2009/11/reload-alsa-modules.html
<sitsofe> Phurl: ah. This is probably the wrong channel in that case
<sitsofe> Phurl: I'd try #ubuntu or the ALSA IRC channel (dunno where that one is though). Good luck!
<Phurl> thanks
<Phurl> i have tried in ubunut
<Phurl> they said reinstall
<Phurl> omg
<sitsofe> Phurl: If you are hand compiling going to the ALSA one may be better
<Phurl> i have compiled
<Phurl> thanks anyway
<sitsofe> Phurl: Assuming the module is loading and you are using testing your sound using ALSA direct then that suggests you have a card ALSA doesn't quite know how to drive. My experience is that most ALSA problems are down to mixer settings though (so it's important that you just test that by itself without going through layers above first)
<Phurl> it was fine before i upgraded
<Phurl> now i cannot even see the card in the ist
<Phurl> list
<Phurl> aplay -l
<AlanBell> Phurl: #ubuntu is very noisy, the loco channels tend to be better
<AlanBell> so the 503 error is known and under control I assume?
<sitsofe> AlanBell: Check the IRC topic
<spm> AlanBell: "Launchpad will be down from 0900 UTC until 1030 UTC for a code update"
<spm> AlanBell: we're just having troubles getting the normal "pretty" we're down for maintenance message rto show :-/
<AlanBell> ah great thanks. I will let you all get on with it then :-)
<spm> :-)
<alkisg_work> Hi, I'm thinking of creating/uploading a really big (200-300 MB) package in my PPA. It will contain a blob of a virtual disk image, and it will be used for easy LTSP installations. Any reasons against this? Thanks!
<bigjools> alkisg_work: good question, perhaps mrevell knows if this is within the PPA usage terms?
* mrevell changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad will be down from 0900 UTC until 1030 UTC for a code update | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: mrevell | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<wgrant> Anything that makes LTSP setup easier seems like a win.
<mrevell> That's an interesting one alkisg_work
<alkisg_work> (the image will only contain floss software and will be the same one that is produced with ltsp-build-client)
<mrevell> alkisg_work, I can't see any problems with that
<alkisg_work> Thank you all!
<mrevell> alkisg_work, let me take a look at the terms of use just to double check
<alkisg_work> Sure
<alkisg_work> I was mostly worried if launchpad will be able to cope with such big uploads
<mrevell> alkisg_work, So long as you're meeting the licence requirements of the software you're providing in the binary, and that software is all FLOSS, then I don't see a terms of use problem here. bigjools, is the size of the blob a technical issue?
<maxb> It's smaller that OOo
<maxb> :-)
<alkisg_work> Heh, true :
<maxb> *than
<alkisg_work> :)
<alkisg_work> Thank you guys
<mrevell> alkisg_work, Yeah, I don't see a problem with the size of the upload, really. bigjools should be able to confirm.
<mrevell> np alkisg_work
<SteveA> hi
<SteveA> the launchpad offline page is really really annoying
<SteveA> instead of serving a page up at the URL I want, but serving the offline page with a 5xx error
<SteveA> it redirects me to an "offline" page
<SteveA> the problem with this is, I lose any URLs I have in my browser when I refresh the URLs
<SteveA> such as when I restart my firefox session
<SteveA> this is a significant loss of state.
<SteveA> the offline page is even a 200 OK
<SteveA> it should be a 5xx
<mwhudson> SteveA: i believe that the unsatisfactoriness of the page is known
<mwhudson> SteveA: something about the new proxy wasn't set up right
<SteveA> thanks mwhudson
<wgrant> There was just an ugly plain uninformative 503 page initially; I imagine that this was an emergency measure.
<moradan> hello, have anybody worked with po4a for making .po files from their own xmls or maybe somebody can point me with a more suitable tool? (I need to upload to the launchpad two xmls for translation - actually only items inside tags <para></para>)
<paddy2706> hey, is the update complete? i just tried to checkout files from bzr but it will only throw me errors
<moradan> sorry - needed to change the irc-client (empathy sucks)
* mthaddon changed the topic of #launchpad to: Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: mrevell | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<wgrant> Is everything back up? I proposed a merge a couple of minutes before the downtime, and still haven't received an email about it.
<wgrant> It looks like codehosting cronjobs are not runnning?
<noodles775> wgrant: nope :/... still issues getting codebrowse up... tim and aaron currently investigating.
<wgrant> Ah. Fun.
<bigjools> mrevell: that blob size is fine (can't reply to the dude, he's gone)
<mrevell> thanks bigjools
<eagles0513875> hey guys im on firefox and on launchpad.net. im logged in but for some reason there is no button to report bugs?
<idnar> is bazaar.launchpad.net known to be not working?
<philip_stoev1> hi guys, bzr pull using an HTTP URL does not work -- http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~randgen/randgen/rqg2/ hangs indefinitely
<philip_stoev1> mrevell: ^^^
<mrevell> Hi idnar, philip_stoev1 We're having some issues with code hosting following this morning's code roll-out. Sorry about that. I'll update the channel topic.
<eagles0513875> mrevell: what bout filing bugs on launchpad. i am not seeing report bug link on the bug page
<eagles0513875> on here https://bugs.launchpad.net/
<mrevell> Hi eagles0513875. Which project do you want to report a bug about?
<eagles0513875> a bug in kopete
<eagles0513875> seems like when i click on a website url it opens abi word
* mrevell changed the topic of #launchpad to: http access to code hosted on Launchpad is offline -- we're working to fix this | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: mrevell | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<wgrant> eagles0513875: ubuntu-bug kopete
<eagles0513875> wgrant: ?
<wgrant> eagles0513875: Run that command.
<wgrant> eagles0513875: It is the way that one is meant to file Ubuntu bugs now.
<eagles0513875> not via lp
<wgrant> Not directly, no.
<eagles0513875> ok
<eagles0513875> wgrant: so all future bugs get reported via ubuntu-bug
<mrevell> eagles0513875, If they're bugs in Ubuntu. There's more about it here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
<eagles0513875> im on kubuntu mrevell or does it really matter
<mrevell> eagles0513875, Yeah, for reporting bugs it doesn't make a difference.
<eagles0513875> ok ty mrevell
<rodrigo_> hi
<rodrigo_> seems branches proposed for merging get stuck in the 'Updating branch details' step
<rodrigo_> we've seen 2 of them -> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/evolution-couchdb/birth-date-format and https://launchpad.net/~teknico.net/ubuntuone-servers/dont-panic-on-partial-contacts/+merge/14466
<noodles775> rodrigo_: sorry, we're still eliminating a few remaining issues after the Launchpad upgrade earlier today.
<rodrigo_> noodles775: ah, ok, so should we just wait, or push them again?
<mrevell> I'll be away for a while, for an eye test. Back later
<Meths> What's the version number for today's launchpad release?
<maxb> 3.1.10
<Meths> Thanks
<idnar> 3.1.10.ohnoes.codehosting.is.broken? ;)
* noodles775 changed the topic of #launchpad to: bzr access to LP code only by bzr+ssh -- we're working to fix this | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: mrevell | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<noodles775> rodrigo_: there shouldn't be a need to push them again - the code is there, it just hasn't been scanned yet.
<lodder> I having an issue with translations for time-drive fr.po, the accents are differend characters then they should be. what could be the issue?
<esr> Hello, I'm looking for a launchpad site admin.  I tried to register a project there and it didn't happen; I want to know if the attempt failed for some technical reason or was rejected, and if it was rejected why that was.
<beuno> esr, what project?
<noodles775> Hi esr, mrevell should be able tot help you - what's the project name (and how long ago ...
<esr> mrevell? Ah, I need to speak with him about something else related.  The project was called "forgepluckertest" and I tried to create it last week.  For explanation, see http://home.gna.org/forgeplucker/  - I need dummy projects for regression testing on all target forges, and intend to support launchpad.
<mrevell> Hey esr, let me see what happened to that project.
<esr> And I want to talk to mrevell about importing from forgeplucker state dumps, since I know he's already interested in that problem.
<mrevell> esr, I see a forgepluckertest project at https://launchpad.net/forgepluckertest and it tells me that the project has been approved by a member of the Launchpad team.
<esr> Odd, it's not showing on my personal page.
<esr> That's why I thought it hadn't gone through.
<esr> I see it.  Good.
<esr> Now, mrevell.  Since you're here, I saw the work you did on importing Trac bugs via an XML dump.  You are that guy, right?
<mrevell> esr, Yeah, I think we should list the projects that you own on your profile page. I'll file a bug if there isn't want.
<mrevell> esr, I'm afraid that's not me. Let me find the right person, I think it was gmb
<esr> OK.
<gmb> esr: Hi, how can I help?
<Whoopie> Hi, are there any problems with the PPAs? One of my builds was scheduled for today (in ~ 4 hours), but now it's scheduled in 2 days, see https://launchpad.net/~whoopie79/+archive/ppa/+build/1320166
<esr> gmb: Please read this: http://home.gna.org/forgeplucker/
 * gmb looks
<esr> I'm looking for someone at Launchpad who'se interested enough in supporting project export/import to do our Launchpad handler class.
<esr> We do Berlios and Savannah/Gna already and I'm talking with the SourceForge guys.
<gmb> esr: I'm definitely interested, though I've got a very full plate at the moment. Are you looking to get all data out of LP or just bugs?
<esr> Bugs for now,  Eventually all data.
<gmb> esr: Right. Then yes, I might well be able to help you :).
<esr> OK.  Please join here, there's a dev mailing list. https://gna.org/projects/forgeplucker/
<esr> I'm hoping to get responsible [people from all the major forges.
<esr> If we all work together this won't be a hard problem.
<esr> And I think the walls between forges create brittleness in our infrastructure that could bite us in the ass very badly.
<gmb> esr: Agreed.
<gmb> esr: I'll join the list. I'll also speak to other people within the Launchpad team who may be able to help, though for the most part I think this could be quite straightforward to do.
<gmb> Thanks for bringing this to my attention; it's a very interesting project.
<esr> Excellent!  Thank you.
<gmb> You're welcome.
<lodder> I having an issue with translations for time-drive fr.po, the accents are differend characters then they should be. what could be the issue?
<mrevell> Hi lodder
<esr> gmb: I got turned on to this problem about a month ago when berlios.de had an outage that I feared might be permanent.  One of my projects lives there.
<esr> After I recovered (painfully) I decided "Never again!".
<lodder> hi mrevell
<mrevell> lodder, Can you point me to an example?
<jcastro> mrevell, you're in luck sir. We have an open slot last minute on openweek  at 2200UTC. Got anyone who wants to talk about something awesome?
<lodder> mrevell: yea sure can I paste it here?
<mrevell> hey jcastro, I think I can probably rustle someone up :) Gimme a couple of hours and I'll let you know
<mrevell> lodder, If it's not too big, please do :)
<lodder> mrevell: msgstr "SupprimÃ© "
<mrevell> lodder, And what would expect to see?
 * frozty_sa joins too
<lodder> mrevell: I can't type it here :( I ge the same funny chars
<jcastro> mrevell, that would be awesome, but if it's going to force someone to rush and do a shoddy last minute job then I don't mind ending the day an hour early.
<mrevell> lodder, I don't see any unusual chars in what you pasted. I see an acute accent over the letter e
<jcastro> mrevell, however I know the caliber of your people. :p
<jcastro> I recommend volunteering gmb.
<lodder> I see a different sign could it be that my terminal is causing it?
<mrevell> jcastro, heh :) I was thinking of asking someone in the Americas, as 22.00 UTC may not be pub-time for them :)
<gmb> jcastro: If I had time in a bucket, I would. Sadly, not so.
<lodder> I see a copyright and capital A with tilde
<lodder> mrevell: ^ ^
<mrevell> lodder, I'm guessing you're not seeing this problem with accented characters elsewhere, right?
<jcastro> gmb, out of curiosity, didn't you guys make the API specifically for people to be able to suck out their data and do things like back it up?
<lodder> I don't know, I'm using a shell session I'm not @home
<mrevell> lodder, that may well be the cause of the problem. From what I can see, it's not an issue with the translation string or with Launchpad.
<gmb> jcastro: Among other things, yes. The API should make the forgeplucker handler quite simple.
<lodder> mrevell: any idea what it then could be I'm using ubuntu karmic
<gmb> esr: I can sympathise. One of our main aims for the next six to twelve months is to make it much easier to get your data into and out of Launchpad, so ForgePlucker dovetails nicely with our own goals.
<mrevell> lodder, I'm afraid I don't know. You may get a good answer in #ubuntu-fr or #ubuntu, though
<esr> gmb: I think I vcan be direct help with that.  One of the thing s I've already done is invent an XML dump fprmat for bugtracker state that spans three forge types.  One of my goals is to generalize that to handle all project state.
<lodder> mrevell: asking it in #ubuntu hopefully get quick anwser, thx for the help
<esr> Since I've invented that, you guys don't have to :-)
<esr> A standard exchange format would be a *huge* win, and I'm interested in building and caretaking the schemas and documentation around that.
<gmb> esr: That's definitely something that we'd be interested in working with, both for imports and exports. We have our own bug interchange format, but it's far more important to standardise on the same thing as other forges and bug trackers than it is to use something that exactly matches our internal data model.
<esr> Launchpad is interesting because unlike the three forges I support now, it's not an Alexandria descendant.
<esr> So if I can get my ontology to match theirs *and* yours, it will be a good indication that the design as sound for all our purposes.
<gmb> Definitely.
<esr> One of the interesting parts of the job will be impedance-matching the different data models. I intend to do this really systematically, to the point that I'm bringing in a n expert on formal deduction from ontologies.
<esr> Your importer won't necessarily be able to do everything, but at least we can write the schema and code so it does the best possible job and leaves clear warning of what parts of a state capture it can't handle.
<esr> Fun stuff, eh?
<MTecknology> How do I pull a branch over http?
<mrevell> MTecknology, Right now we have a problem with http branch access. We're working to fix it.
<MTecknology> mrevell: ok, thanks
<mrevell> MTecknology, keep an eye on http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus for updates
<MTecknology> ok, thank
<MTecknology> s
<cody-somerville> Is there a problem with branch mirroring? I'm seeing a delay of over half an hour.
<mrevell> noodles775, is branch mirroring affected by the code hosting problems we've had?
<cody-somerville> and by branch mirroring, I'm not referring to remote branch imports
<danderson> Hi.
<danderson> Does LP serve links to the head revision of a file in raw form?
<danderson> something like http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~eopadoan/%2Bjunk/django-html-mode/annotate/head:/django-html-mode.el , but that serves the raw file content, not annotations
<danderson> I tried a simple s/annotate/download/, and got an HTTP 500 back :(
<apw> i am suspicious that some of the packagesets have dissapeared from the database since this AMs upgrade... specifically the karmic-kernel packageset seems to have gone
<fagan> Is something wrong with pushing code to a bzr branch on launchpad?
<fagan> At least the ppas are building faster now
<Meths> fagan: /topic
<fagan> bloody empathy
<fagan> "unsupported command"
<fagan> Ah
<lodder> Hi my trunk keeps saying updating trunk .... after the update what could be the issue?
<fagan> lodder: Im having the same problem its a temporary problem with bzr
<lodder> fagan: ah ok any idea when it's going to be fixed?
<fagan> Nope but I wouldnt say it would be too long
<lodder> ok
<cody-somerville> Its not a problem with bzr
<cody-somerville> its a problem with the launchpad codehosting service
* mrevell changed the topic of #launchpad to: bzr access to LP code only by bzr+ssh -- we're working to fix this | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<mtaylor> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~drizzle-developers/drizzle/staging/".
<mtaylor> except it really is
<beuno> mtaylor, topic
<mtaylor> beuno: thanks. sorry
<beuno> mtaylor, we're sorry  :)
<smoser> is this expected at the moment:
<smoser> $ bzr pull
<smoser> Using saved parent location: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-on-ec2/ubuntu-on-ec2/ec2-publishing-scripts/
<smoser> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-on-ec2/ubuntu-on-ec2/ec2-publishing-scripts/".
<beuno> smoser, yes, topic
<beuno> we're figured out the problem
<beuno> and we're deploying a fix
<smoser> thanks. sorry i can't read.
<beuno> it should be fixed shortly
<beuno> smoser, no worries, I get the feeling that the topic is *not* the best place to announce these things
<smoser> i dont knwo where it should be... i didn't even really know if this was the right place to ask. i actually did skim the topic. thanks though.
<Laney> launchpad has been "Updating branch" of ubuntu-dev-tools for some hours now. Has something hung?
<Laney> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/ubuntu-dev-tools/trunk
<james_w> Laney: yup
<james_w> fix is in progress
<Laney> alright
<Laney> didn't know if it was the same as topic
<Laney> or what was just being discussed
<Laney> guess these things are quite coupled
<SolidSilver> Good day.  I'm suddenly getting a bunch of bug notifications in email.  All are duplicate notifications, and none are for crash reports I've sent. Do you have a misconfigured mail handler?
* flacoste changed the topic of #launchpad to: codehosting is back -- branch updates are cataching up | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<SolidSilver> The sender is "Apport retracing service <der.pitti@gmail.com>"
<menesis> wow, 17 ppa builders instead of 3? queue looks much better now, thanks :)
<MTecknology> hu?
<PATX> does this mean i have uploaded a new version of a current ppa: http://patx.me/paste/79038.html - yesterday i was told to wait for an email but i never got it...
<micahg> no, you should get an e-mail
<micahg> PATX: did you check your spam folder?
<PATX> yep
<PATX> i have gmail... annd i know i can get emails cos i have been receiving them all day.
<micahg> is that the address associated with LP?
<PATX> yep
<wgrant> PATX: Did you sign the package with a key that Launchpad knows about?
<PATX> yes the one on my page... 76C4695F
<PATX> wgrant - i used dpkg-buildpackage -S -k76C4695F to make .deb src
<PATX> so i signed right?
<PATX> cos i entered my pass
<wgrant> I suspect so.
<PATX> yea... so...
<wgrant> Are the email addresses that you referenced in the changelog (Changed-By and Maintainer) registered properly in LP?
<PATX> O.o lemme see
<wgrant> It shouldn't matter, but due to a configuration change a couple of weeks ago it seems that it now does (a bug).
<PATX> no... but the one ther fwds to my gmail...
<PATX> ok, ill change n try again
<PATX> ok changed email n then re-built it, then dput my-ppa... so now wait like 5-10 min for email?
<wgrant> PATX: The email should arrive within 5 minutes.
<tsimpson> is there a time scale for bug #385517 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 385517 in launchpad-foundations "launchpadlib users made to authenticate unnecessarily" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/385517
<maxb> tsimpson: Perhaps #launchpad-dev would be a better audience for that question
<tsimpson> maybe, I just noticed that it has passed between milestones for a few months
<PATX> wgrant - still no email...
<bibinou> hi
<bibinou> I want to mark a bug as duplicate but I have very few karma
<bibinou> is this a problem ?
<bibinou> (and am I is the right channel for asking this ?)
<wgrant> bibinou: That's no problem.
<tormod> james_w, I just filed bug 475983 - is it filed in the right place?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 475983 in launchpad "the ~ubuntu-branches import makes wrong timestamps (time zone mess)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/475983
<bibinou> wgrant: thanks !
<bibinou> wgrant: I think I should mark the newest bug as the duplicate of the newest, or it depends ?
<tormod> bibinou, unless the newest one has more information and is worked on
<james_w> tormod: re-assigned, thanks for the bug
<wgrant> bibinou: Generally use the one with the most information as the master, and mark the others as duplicates of that.
<james_w> tormod: I don't know how that is so messed up
<bibinou> wgrant: thanks !
<bibinou> thanks
<tormod> bibinou, about bug triaging in Ubuntu, you can also ask in #ubuntu-bugs
<bibinou> ok thanks
<djbclark> how do you manually remove a package from a ppa? Doc mentions its possible but haven't found doc that says exactly how you do it yet.
<djbclark> nevermind found it in the web ui, about 10 seconds after above of course :)
#launchpad 2009-11-06
<ub3rst4r> so... does the featured project change daily?
<wgrant> ub3rst4r: Yes.
<ub3rst4r> cool... but how come little registry cleaner isnt listed underneath anymore?
<wgrant> It is selected automatically from the list below it.
<wgrant> While it's the big featured project, it won't be shown again in the list.
<ub3rst4r> oic
<DBO> just curious but how are the projects listed under the featured project selected?
<ub3rst4r> does launchpad have a job board?
<wgrant> DBO: The mystical admins choose them.
<wgrant> ub3rst4r: for projects to advertise for tasks that need doing?
<DBO> awww you guys... loving up on GNOME Do :P
<ub3rst4r> dbo u need to be king like me
<ub3rst4r> wgrant ya
<wgrant> ub3rst4r: No, sadly.
<ub3rst4r> poop :(
<DBO> ub3rst4r, you write Little Registry Cleaner?
<ub3rst4r> dbo yep
<DBO> ah, GNOME Do has been in that featured spot several times, we have had our days as king :P
<wgrant> The selection algorithm is, um, basic.
<DBO> hmmmm
 * DBO goes to check activity on Little Registry Cleaner for the best week
<wgrant> Not quite.
<DBO> well its not commits per hour or something like that
<DBO> gotta be something like page visits
<wgrant> You're thinking far too complicated.
<DBO> random?
<DBO> wait wait wait
<wgrant>         top_project = self._get_day_of_year() % len(self.featured_projects)
<DBO> haha
<DBO> thats awesome
<DBO> wgrant, you just made my day
<glen> i need some kind of help/guide with translations. i uploaded fi.po, nl.po yesterday, they are still in needs review, and with day before yesterday timestamp:  JOINS PARTS QUITS MODES NICKS
<glen> https://translations.launchpad.net/eventum/+imports
<glen> and why some other like pt_BR.po have failed status. i just told it to use source from bzr, ie import from branch
* mrevell changed the topic of #launchpad to: codehosting is back -- branch updates are cataching up | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: mrevell | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<rodrigo_> hi
<rodrigo_> seems some breakage still persists with branches -> http://imagebin.org/70708 <- this is when approving a branch
<apw> is it possible to get a personal ppa renamed or deleted?  i named one with a specific name before i realised it wasn't easy to change the names
<apw> i am happy to lose the thing if delete is the only way
<bigjools> do you want to rename the PPA itself or the account?
<apw> bigjools, the ppa itself, as in the shortname that appears in the urls
<apw> i now just use colors for the names so i can reuse them, but i have one which has a silly name with jaunty in ot
<bigjools> okay, can you file a question on Soyuz please and someone can take a look
<apw> bigjools, thanks
<bigjools> welcome
<dreamcat4> hi
<dreamcat4> when will this be available? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/456525
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 456525 in launchpad-registry "the product release finder does not strip the flavor info after the ~" [High,Fix released]
<Ursinha> dreamcat4, it is already, if it's fix released then it's on production
<dreamcat4> Ursinha: so launchpad 3.1.10 is running on launchpad.net ? Cool
<Ursinha> dreamcat4, but afaik it regards a script
<Ursinha> dreamcat4, yes, since yesterday ~10h30 utc
<dreamcat4> Ursinha: allright, thanks !
<dreamcat4> (bye)
<Ursinha> dreamcat4, no problem :)
<kamusin> aloha
<kamusin> is there any problem with launchpad servers? I try to fill a new report and show me a oops error (timeout)
<Goundy> hi
<julio> hi there
<Goundy> Is there any plans for projects being able to host a basic wiki on launchpad ?
<julio> can anyone tell me if is possible to change my launchpad mail account?
<julio> just found it... nevermind
<Meths> julio: Where is the option?
<julio> Meths: clic on your user name on the upper right corner
<Meths> Oh, nevermind, right there next to the email address :)
<gmb> Goundy: It's something we'd really like to do but we have no plans at the moment for when to do it. It's very high on the list of requested features, though.
<esr> gmb: There is a #forgeplucker channel now.  We've got a dev with a task to populate the Launchpad tracker with sample bugs.  Join us any ttime, we've about got the decks cleared for you to write the Launchpad handler class.
<gmb> esr: Excellent, I'll drop in in the next few days (about to hit EoD now). Thanks for letting me know.
<esr> gmb: Have fun.
<Goundy> gmb thank you for the hint :)
<falktx> hi there
<falktx> I have a question
<falktx> some people have built powerpc packages in their's PPA
<falktx> how can I build for powerpc too?
<falktx> it that only for "launchpad trusted" people?
<bigjools> falktx: correct
<falktx> how can i be trusted?
<falktx> i already signed code of conduct
<falktx> i am an ubuntero
<falktx> or do i need to be MOTU?
* mrevell changed the topic of #launchpad to: codehosting is back -- branch updates are cataching up | Read https://help.launchpad.net for help | Help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: see channel #launchpad-dev
<falktx> ?
<bigjools> falktx: they are reserved for internal jobs, I'm afraid you can't have access
<falktx> that's not fare
<falktx> i know dnjl has access
<falktx> some motus ppas too
<falktx> i have to create my own repo because lauchpad don't build powerpc for me, you know?
<falktx> that's a lot of work...
<beuno> falktx, we don't support ppc anymore
<beuno> so the remaining servers are there for testing purposes really, and not maintained, not virtualized, etc
<falktx> there's no way of enabling ppc, i guess
<beuno> not through Launchpad, no
<falktx> will it be enabled some day?
<falktx> or "not so soon"?
<beuno> falktx, no, ppc is no longer supported, hasn't been for years
<falktx> so it won't come back
<falktx> never
<falktx> ?
<beuno> I can't reaelly see the future
<beuno> there are no plans to do so
<falktx> i understand
<beuno> my guess is that if suddenly 50% of the shipped laptops ship with ppc, it will probably come back on the table
<falktx> i already submitted my software to revu
<falktx> maybe it will be accepted
<bigjools> falktx: the PPAs are built on virtual machines for security reasons, and we can only host what Xen supports
<bigjools> which does not include ppc
<falktx> what about qemu?
<bigjools> we use Xen
<falktx> ok
<FFEMTcJ> Sorry for the noob question.. When setting up an OpenPGP key.. Do I need one for each computer or how does that work?
<FFEMTcJ> And i guess the same question for the ssh key
<exarkun> I keep my keys on a USB device that I keep with me.
<exarkun> That's not the only option, but it's a pretty good one.
<lfaraone> Is it possible to check the current state of a distro release (frozen, open, released, etc) via the LP API?
<FFEMTcJ> exarkun: is there a tutorial or something that would show me how to do that?
<exarkun> not that I know of, sorry
<FFEMTcJ> ok
<FFEMTcJ> thanks
<FFEMTcJ> so that means you only use one key between all your computers right?
<exarkun> yes
<FFEMTcJ> sounds good.. thanks
<wgrant> lfaraone: distro_series.status looks like it should do it.
<lfaraone> wgrant: cool, I'll try it.
<RenatoSilva> Feature suggestion: if the bug reporter can't confirm his now bug, then does not allow him to do it
<RenatoSilva> s/now/own
<exarkun> What does "confirm" mean?
<RenatoSilva> it means that more than one person have reproduced the bug and thus it's unlikely to be invalid
<wgrant> It's not at all clear that that's what it means any more.
<wgrant> Because we have the me-too button for that.
<exarkun> RenatoSilva: I'm confused, sorry.  How can a bug reporter confirm his own bug if confirming a bug involves more than one person?
<RenatoSilva> wgrant: then LP has a problem
<RenatoSilva> exarkun: exactly, that's why I suggest: LP should not allow that
<exarkun> Oh, I see.  Thanks.
<hggdh> getting continuous timeouts on edge. Known?
<maxb> Is there any way to reconfigure the stacking branch of a launchpad branch without deleting and repushing?
<wgrant> maxb: You can do it through the bzr API.
<wgrant> I forget how.
<wgrant> Branch.set_stacked_on_url
#launchpad 2009-11-07
<virtuald> someone have to make unsubscribing from bugs by email possible, it's annoying to different other people trying all the time
<virtuald> to see different people trying to unsubscribe by email*
<virtuald> or maybe gmail just showed me a bunch of old emails i thought i had deleted
<PATX> why are the blue print "white boards" called that? i see no resemblance...
<wgrant> PATX: It's a thing you scribble notes on.
<PATX> ah
<PATX> now i sees
<exarkun> Service Temporarily Unavailable
<exarkun> The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
<lifeless> is that on bazaar.launchpad.net ?
<lifeless> if so, hit f5
<lifeless> or ctrl-r or your fav thing for that
<exarkun> It is apparently on help.ubuntu.com
<exarkun> Not that I have any interest at all in being on help.ubuntu.com
<lifeless> indeed
<lifeless> let me see
<exarkun> But that's one of the places I have to go if I want to report a bug against Ubuntu these days, isn't it
<exarkun> Man I get grumpy so easily.
<lifeless> if you're not using 'ubuntu-bug', and didn't bookmark the workaround for non bug-control folk, yes.
<lifeless> ok, something is naffed
<wgrant> It's slow, but working, for me.
<exarkun> Another 503 here.
<lifeless> wgrant: 503 for ajmitch here; very slow for me
<exarkun> I'll run report-bug, maybe.
<lifeless> I've asked in our is channel, will phone if noone answers shortly
<lifeless> launchpad itself i s ok
<exarkun> Wow, it's not even installed.
<wgrant> exarkun: ubuntu-bug.
<exarkun> Ah
<lifeless> report-bug goes to debian, and for added hilarity we didn't reuse the command line name
 * exarkun boggles at the initial choice presented.
<wgrant> reportbug is still useful for reporting bugs to Debian.
<wgrant> exarkun: You probably want 'ubuntu-bug somepackage'
<exarkun> Yea, got it now.  Thanks.
<exarkun> Oh no.
<exarkun> It stole focus right when I tried to hit return to send that message.
<exarkun> So I told it to do something, but I don't know what.
<exarkun> Hooray for focus stealing applications, they're the most best.
<wgrant> File that focus-stealing bug with 'ubuntu-bug apport' :P
<lifeless> wgrant: no its not, it mails ubuntu-bugs
<lifeless> wgrant: bts is useful
<wgrant> lifeless: Not if you tell it to send to Debian instead.
<lifeless> wgrant: we could still divert, honour the option and pass through
<wgrant> lifeless: Perhaps. But it seems impolite to steal a name for a different tool.
<wgrant> It has very few similarities.
<lifeless> wgrant: the tool name is generic, for a generic platform local purpose
<lifeless> wgrant: it would be like stealing the name 'cc' for the default compiler.
<lifeless> that is, totally normal.
<wgrant> lifeless: C compilers take vaguely similar arguments and behave very similarly.
<wgrant> ubuntu-bug and reportbug do not.
<lifeless> very few options are similar, and the behaviour varies wildly; the overall goal is the same.
<lifeless> now, which case am I describing?
<exarkun> "ubuntu-bug apport" doesn't seem to be viable
<wgrant> exarkun: What do you mean?
<exarkun> It offers to send several crash reports to the developers.  My options are to let it or to exit.
<exarkun> But the crash reports have nothing to do with the apport bug I want to file.
<lifeless> exarkun: really?
<lifeless> the wiki seems happy again now
<exarkun> Very really.
<lifeless> sounds like you have two bugs to file
<exarkun> I guess I could let it send the crash reports and then say "psych, the bug is really..."
<wgrant> 'ubuntu-bug apport' works fine for me.
<exarkun> wgrant: Maybe it behaves differently in the absence of crash logs?
 * exarkun starts writing down the bug report stack so he doesn't miss anything
<mzz> heh, I went to a similar drill a little while ago, including launchpad oopsing on one of my crash reports
<mzz> it was fun! I think I was up to 4 reports by the time I was done
<exarkun> Ah, I think "ubuntu-bug apport" doesn't really do anything special
<exarkun> The send crash report dialog that confused me must be the one that I unintentionally instantly dismissed when I ran "ubuntu-bug firefox"
<pwolanin> fyi, https://help.launchpad.net/ seems to be down or borked
<pwolanin> I get 502 or 503 responses
<rdb> what's the correct way to have a package be built for multiple distributions (hardy, jaunty, karmic etc)
<maxb> rdb: It requires separate sourceful uploads with different version numbers targetted at each
<rdb> maxb, hrm, that sounds terribly clumsy
<maxb> rdb: Well, fundamentally, you're doing multiple builds, which requires the allocation of multiple different version numbers.
<rdb> so, e.g. version 2.3-1 in hardy, 2.3-2 in intrepid, etc
<rdb> like that?
<maxb> rdb: It's clearer IMO if you, e.g. upload 2.3-1 to karmic, and then model the earlier series as backports: 2.3-1~jaunty1, 2.3-1~hardy1
<rdb> copying a package with "rebuild" option doesn't seem to work
<rdb> maxb, ah, k - thanks for the info
<maxb> yes, because you're effectively asking it to rebuild the same version, and it won't let you overwrite the previous binaries
<rdb> ah
<rdb> so they are stored as the same .deb in the pool?
<maxb> rdb: another advantage of that style of version numbering is that if the build breaks on an older series, you can fix it up with e.g. a ~hardy2 upload
<rdb> ah
<rdb> excellent, thanks
<rdb> so I'll just dput the karmic version, change the changelog entry, debuild and dput it again, change it again, etc
<rdb> ?
<maxb> the pool filenames are determined by ("ubuntu", "main", package, version, architecture) - there's no series involved
<maxb> rdb: right, and if you want to save some upload time, you don't need to upload the .orig tarball more than once
<rdb> ah, k. thanks for your help!
<maxb> So you might like to debuild the subsequent builds with -sd
<rdb> debuild automatically exludes the orig.tar.gz if it already has been uploaded, afaik
<rdb> then it just makes a diff
<wgrant> There are good reasons apart from disk location conflicts to force a new version -- what if I install your Jaunty package, then upgrade to Karmic? If they have the same version string, I won't get the Karmic version of your package.
<rdb> is -0 the first version, or -1 ?
<cl_2> hi guys! is there a way i can reach translators in launchpad? i want  to release in a few days and it would be nice if translations are completed before then.
<Hobbestigrou> hi
<Hobbestigrou> you know if i can find a ml or a irc channel about lanchpad in a french
<Hobbestigrou> because my english is very bad
<quentusrex> Does anyone know what the heck is up with the apport seahorse mailing list problem????
<quentusrex> Please tell me someone is around...
<quentusrex> Anyone who reported a bug about seahorse(empathy) is now getting 50+ emails
<bibinou> hi
<bibinou> how can I search for "Windows 7" in the launchpad bugs ?
<bibinou> it seems to output the bugs with Windows and 7 and not the whole "Windows 7" phrase
#launchpad 2009-11-08
<waseidel> hi all
<waseidel> i'm here with a trouble, about the integration of wiki.ubuntu.com with open ID of launchpad
<DexterLB> hi
<DexterLB> I've got a project on launchpad ( https://launchpad.net/qtimelapse ) and it has bzr branches. But I also build deb packages in my PPA. How do I connect my ppa to the project?
<wgrant> DexterLB: The best you can do is link to it in the project's description, at the moment.
<DexterLB> like this? https://launchpad.net/~dexterabc/+archive/ppa
<DexterLB> (see it here: https://launchpad.net/qtimelapse )
<wgrant> DexterLB: Something like that, yes.
<lifeless> wgrant: care to fix?
<lifeless> ploxploxploxplox
<wgrant> lifeless: Registry had it planned for a few months ago.
<wgrant> Of course it didn't get done...
<lifeless> wgrant: I've a bug like that for lists
<wgrant> lifeless: I think there's a bug like that for most objects.
<wgrant> But the Registry people<->project linkage stuff seems to have faded and been forgotten.
<wgrant> Although I thought it was meant to be a big thing in 3.0.
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> the biggest thing about 3.0 was that it was a big thing ;)
<wgrant> Heh.
<lifeless> lots of code == lots of inertia
<wgrant> Yep.
<lifeless> lp is too big for what it does, IMNSHO
<wgrant> How do you mean?
<DexterLB> the bigger the better
<lifeless> lines of code (and tests) for gained functionality
<wgrant> Probably.
<DexterLB> ok, I have an obsoleted package in my ppa. how do I remove it
<lifeless> delete packages on the right
<wgrant> lifeless: Do the scanner graphs confirm my suspicion that the first statement in the topic is no longer true?
<micahg> are the LP revisions going backwards?
<lifeless> wgrant: I don't know; I'm at an airport and rushing timewise
<lifeless> jml: ^
<wgrant> lifeless: Ah, sorry.
<wgrant> micahg: What do you mean?
<micahg> I thought the revisions was in the 9k already
<micahg> it says r8648 now
 * micahg could have been imagining things
<wgrant> micahg: That's devel vs db-devel.
<wgrant> micahg: Do you know the difference between those two branches?
<wgrant> There's a wiki page on it... /me hunts.
<micahg> nope, I probably should read the docs
<micahg> I thought I saw a higher revision on edge before though
<wgrant> https://dev.launchpad.net/Trunk
<wgrant> You did.
<jml> graphs stop on the 5th, I'm afraid.
<wgrant> jml: Um, that doesn't sound good.
<wgrant> micahg: So, edge normally tracks 'stable', which tracks 'devel'.
<lifeless> man, batteries are so a consumable item
<wgrant> micahg: However, in the rollout 'db-stable' is pushed out to production and edge.
<wgrant> micahg: Since most development happens on devel, and later gets merged into db-devel, db-devels revnos are lower.
<wgrant> So until devel starts rolling out to edge again, edge will actually be running on an old copy of db-devel, so its revno will appear to have gone backwards.
<lifeless> jml: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/testtools/details/+merge/14613
 * lifeless heads planeward
<micahg> ah
<micahg> thanks wgrant
<wgrant> micahg: You'll notice that staging always has an 8xxx revno, as would production (if it was shown there).
<lifeless> ah, delayed
<lifeless> but not much
 * lifeless hangs around more
<wgrant> lifeless: kiwipycon->(BFB sprint?)?
<lifeless> wgrant: pyconnz -> bzr sprint near BNE
<lifeless> wgrant: BFB may be discussed, its certainly relevant
<wgrant> lifeless: Hm, I thought I heard there was going to be a BFB sprint now. Maybe that was just a suggestion.
<lifeless> I imagine that that will be mwhudons focus
<lifeless> gotta go
<wgrant> Bye!
<jml> wgrant, BFB sprint will be around the time of linux.conf.au
<wgrant> jml: Ah.
<lantash1> QUESTION: Does anyone know why the download counters @edge haven't been updated for three weeks? See https://edge.launchpad.net/lottanzb/+download for example.
<lantash1> The problem is not limited to edge as it seems.
<andres_> hi I want to contribute with translations from english to spanish(Argentina) [es-AR] but I can find only neutral (latino) spanish [es], is there any list to browse all the language options?
<hallo> hi!
<hallo> is launchpad broken, as there is no "new bug" button any more?
<andres_> idk im new to this and nobody on the channel seems to be reading
<cody-somerville> Is it possible to edit imports now or does that require a losa?
<dreamcat4> hi!
<dreamcat4> can anyone help with the Release URL Pattern file glob ?
<dreamcat4> https://launchpad.net/php-fpm/+download
<fta> with the new builder algorithm, it take ages to build stuff, even with tons of idle builders :(
<ibboT> I'm trying to pull some code from my launchpad repository, it's been over an hour and it still hasn't completed yet, is there a problem?
<robert_ancell> For the last few days when I try and access bug 429322 I get a timeout.  Other bugs work fine.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/429322
<ibboT> ok it appears to be my internet connection, it just completed as it passed 11pm which is the threshold for my peak - off-peak connection
#launchpad 2010-11-08
<ovnicraft> hi guys how i get lp support this http://bit.ly/9CQdDc
<ovnicraft> or i want to know if is posible manage something like 'multibranchs'
<ovnicraft> 1 myrepo
<ovnicraft> inside have many folder what are too branchs
<spiv> ovnicraft: it might be good for launchpad to support bzr-scmproj directly, file a bug asking for it
<spiv> ovnicraft: in the meantime you should be able to push the individual branches to lp separately
<spiv> ovnicraft: there's some work in bzr towards having something like bzr-scmproj or bzr-colo builtin, when that's part of bzr I'm sure Launchpad will support it too
<ovnicraft> spiv, i really hope
<George_e> Is there a known issue with daily builds? One of mine hasn't been built for the last 8 days or so.
<micahg> queue is empty ATM
<George_e> Hmmm...
<George_e> So is there something else that could be the problem?
<micahg> idk, do you have a link to the build?
<George_e> Sure... one sec.
<George_e> micahg: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~stackapplet-dev/+recipe/stackapplet-daily-builds
<George_e> I requested a build yesterday, but it failed.
<George_e> (The reason it failed had nothing to do with the actual build itself.)
 * micahg doesn't know about recipies, spiv can you help?
 * George_e hopes so...
<wgrant> thumper: ^^ recipe builds stuck uploading -- what do we do about them?
<George_e> The builds were working for about two weeks and then just stopped.
<thumper> ah...
<thumper> hmm...
<thumper> there was a bug that jelmer was working on
<wgrant> I think we may want to hit cancel and then retry.
<thumper> where they got stuck
<wgrant> I know what the bug is, but I'm not sure how to handle these existing cases.
<thumper> it actually failed to upload, but didn't change state
<thumper> I'm not entirely sure either
<wgrant> There's a separate bug with recipe builds.
<George_e> So I found a bug? :P
<wgrant> Bug 666741, I think.
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 666741 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "recipe fails to upload (affected: 1, heat: 11)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/666741
<thumper> kk
<George_e> Whew... I was worried I had done something wrong somewhere along the line.
<thumper> the branch hasn't had a commit since the 29th
<thumper> that was the last successful build
<George_e> Right.
<thumper> the subsequent ones fail to upload as the version already exists
<thumper> there is a known bug about this sticking
<thumper> If there were new commits to this branch I'm fairly sure that they would work
<George_e> Wait, wait - are we talking about 'stackapplet'? The last commit of mine was 41.
<thumper> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/stackapplet/trunk has two commits from the translations service
<George_e> Oh, right.
<George_e> Is there some way of resetting the version?
<George_e> *manually
<thumper> edit the version string?
<thumper> on the recipe that is
<George_e> Okay...
<George_e> thumper: Here is what is currently there: http://pastebin.com/9iEUZ6Yh
<George_e> What do I change? (I'm not the one that created the recipe :)
<thumper> my question first is why you want to change it?
<thumper> if the branch hasn't changed, it'll build the same thing
<George_e> The branch _has_changed.
<George_e> *since the last build, anyway.
<wgrant> The last revision is 43.
<wgrant> The last successful build is of 43.
<wgrant> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~stackapplet-dev/+recipe/stackapplet-daily-builds/+build/5952
<George_e> Something's messed up here...
<George_e> I committed to the branch yesterday.
<wgrant> Apparently not.
<wgrant> Did you remember to push?
<StevenK> Perhaps you commited locally, and didn't push
<George_e> I'll check.
<George_e> You're right!
<George_e> ...I think...
<George_e> I'm confused. Give me a minute to figure this out.
<George_e> Okay, NOW all of the changes are pushed for sure.
<George_e> I've requested new builds now.
<thumper> ok
<George_e> thumper: According to this page, the status is 'build uploading': https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~stackapplet-dev/+recipe/stackapplet-daily-builds/
<George_e> What does that mean?
<George_e> Will it show up in the PPA?
<thumper> George_e: it means that the source package that was assembled from the recipe is being uploaded (as if a user did it)
<thumper> George_e: only the results of building the uploaded package appear in the ppa
<thumper> I'm in the process of fixing the recipe page to show the binary builds too
<George_e> Oh, okay.
<George_e> Are you one of the Launchpad developers then?
<thumper> George_e: yep
<jderose> quick question: what's the guidance for the "Fix Committed" vs "Fix Released" status for software not yet in Ubuntu (but available in a PPA)?
<jderose> I just finished this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dmedia/+bug/672273
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 672273 in DMedia "Use plain unittest instead of nose, use desktopcouch test idioms, make `setup.py test` work (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Critical,Fix committed]
<George_e> thumper: Thanks for making Launchpad awesome! I use it for all of my many open source projects.
<George_e> (and there's a lot :)
<thumper> George_e: great to hear
<thumper> jderose: it often depends on the project
<jderose> thumper: is "Fix Committed" equally "fixed" as "Fix Released"? if that makes sense. :)
<George_e> Uh-oh - I just got a rejection email... :(
<jderose> thumper: like once dmedia is in Ubuntu, will I want to change these bugs to "Fix Released"?
<thumper> jderose: the way we use it as a project is that once the fix is committed in trunk, it is "Fix committed", when end users get it it is "Fix released"
<George_e> It seems like the last build was for revision 43 back in October... but I just committed revision 43 20 minutes ago :P
<George_e> Guess I have to make a dummy commit or something.
<thumper> ?
<thumper> George_e: ah... did you push --overwrite?
<George_e> No... what will that do?
 * thumper is confused
 * George_e is trying 'push --overwrite'
<George_e> Nothing.
<jderose> thumper: so at this stage, when I don't really have *users*, should I change it to "Fix Released" once it hits the daily PPA build?
<thumper> George_e: wait
<thumper> jderose: sounds fine
<thumper> George_e: which branch are you saying you did a commit on 20 minutes ago?
<George_e> trunk
<thumper> which trunk?
<George_e> ...which trunk...?
<jderose> thumper: okay, thanks. so there is no *technical* difference between "Fix Committed" and "Fix Released", just cultural?
<thumper> George_e: not this then? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/stackapplet/trunk/revision/43
<thumper> jderose: fix committed will still show in bug listings by default, fix released won't
<George_e> jderose: Fix committed means that a revision has been committed that fixes the bug, Fix released means that that revision has made its way into a release.
<George_e> ...of course it can mean whatever you want... but that's the way I use it.
<jderose> George_e: gotcha, thanks.
<George_e> thumper: Is 'lp:stackapplet' different from 'lp:~george-edison55/stackapplet/trunk'?
<George_e> I thought they were supposed to be the same.
<jderose> thumper, George_e: okay, one more question. are there conventions for these statuses when a bug is targeted to a particular milestone?
<jderose> like changed to "Fix Released" one the milestone has been reached or something?
<jderose> s/one/once/
<thumper> George_e: no, that is the same branch
<thumper> George_e: lp:~george-edison55/stackapplet/trunk is what we call the unique_name
<thumper> well... to be precise "~george-edison55/stackapplet/trunk" is what we call the unique_name
<George_e> I made a sort-of dummy commit (I removed two extra newlines).
<George_e> Now we're at revision 44.
<George_e> NOW I will request another build :P
<George_e> I think I finally figured out what's going on...
<George_e> When the translation service commits to the branch, I have to merge it with my copy...
<George_e> ...and this probably messes with the revision numbers.
<George_e> (This happened to me on another project.)
<George_e> Could that be it?
<thumper> yep
<thumper> George_e: I think the best thing to do there is to not have translations commit to trunk
<George_e> I see that now.
<George_e> I've been meaning to ask someone...
<George_e> how do branches work...?
<thumper> jtv knows about translations stuff
<George_e> What I mean to say is... is there any reason to create separate branches besides trunk?
<thumper> what do you mean "how do branches work"
<George_e> Or am I misunderstanding something?
<thumper> I tend to work using feature branches
<thumper> so I have trunk always good
<George_e> Okay.
<thumper> experimental work in progress goes in a different branch
<thumper> when that is ready to release, merge it with trunk
<George_e> How does that work when it comes to releases?
<thumper> you release trunk
<George_e> Do the releases all use trunk?
<thumper> no
<George_e> What do they use?
<thumper> some longer running projects will use release branches
<thumper> they may branch those from trunk at specific points in time, like beta
<thumper> then they apply fixes to the release branches as needed
<thumper> but leave trunk open for fresh work
<jderose> George_e: branches are also great so you don't break trunk... don't merge a feature till tests pass, everything is working
<George_e> Ah.
<George_e> So when I release 1.4 of StackApplet soon, I just leave it set to trunk?
<psusi> thumper, say, you had a chance to figure out what the deal is with the broken stacked branches?
<George_e> What is the recommended thing?
<thumper> psusi: hi
<psusi> howdy
<thumper> psusi: sorry, I've been flat stick with other things today
<thumper> we have in progress bzr 2.2.1 landing
<jderose> George_e: tag that revision with `bzr tag 1.4`
<thumper> which I think fixes it
<poolie> hi thumper
<thumper> it has landed on trunk, but we need to arrange codehosting downtime to release it
<George_e> jderose: What does that do?
<thumper> hi poolie
<jderose> George_e: if you think you will do ongoing maintaining on 1.4, branch from trunk and call the branch foo-1.4 or whatever... then you can also create a series in launchpad and have it point to foo-1.4 (the "trunk" for the 1.4 branch).
<jderose> rockstar was just explaining this all to me yesterday, so i'm pretty sure i got it right :)
<George_e> jderose: ...and if you're not planning any maintenance?
<thumper> George_e: then you can just tag the trunk branch and keep going
<thumper> tags are nice
<jderose> jderose: then just tag it... that way you at least know the revision the release was associated with
<thumper> jderose: snap
 * thumper needs to take a break and stop kids killing each other
<jderose> George_e: you can also branch and create the series later on. but creating the series from the get-go i think can be good because it communicates your intentions to other who may want to contribute
<jderose> George_e: so someone see, oh, this series is open for maintenance, so my merge proposal might actually get looked at, even accepted.
<George_e> jderose: Okay... so how do translations  fit into that?
<jderose> George_e: someone else might have to answer that, but i'm sure there's a good answer so translators aren't just chasing trunk... i'd like to know the answer to that myself :)
<George_e> Let me see if I've got it right... when StackApplet 1.4 comes out, I should create a new branch called stackapplet-1.5 and merge trunk with it every now and again?
<jderose> (cool, stackapplet sounds awesome, btw)
<jderose> George_e: basically, but i wouldn't create 1.5 branch till 1.5 is released
<jderose> active development is merged onto trunk
<George_e> Oh... so how do I take the contents of trunk and put it in stackapplet-1.5?
<jderose> bugfixes and perhaps backports are merge onto 1.4
<George_e> (I haven't done a lot of merging before...)
<jderose> George_e: I love merging, so I can explain. :)
<George_e> Oh good!
<jderose> George_e: so 1.4 is your stable release, you're working up to 1.5?
<George_e> No.
<George_e> 1.3 is stable... I'm working to 1.4
<George_e> :)
<jderose> George_e: ah, okay... well, there is a lot of flexibility, but i would do something like this (and I'm trying to channel rockstar for correctness)...
<jderose> so say you're in trunk or whatever the tip branch is for 1.4 development
<George_e> Right.
<jderose> you just make the final change: bzr commit -m "StackApplet 1.4 is now totally awesome"
<jderose> then tag the release: bzr tag 1.4
<George_e> What does the tag do?
<jderose> George_e: it's just metadata associated with a particular revision
<jderose> it's used most for release numbers
<jderose> George_e: like if you checkout bzr and then run: bzr tags
<George_e> I see.
<jderose> you'll see stuff like this:
<jderose> bzr-2.1.0b1          4734.3.1
<jderose> bzr-2.1.0b2          4668.1.4
<jderose> bzr-2.1.0b3          4797.1.3
<jderose> bzr-2.1.0b4          4896.1.6
<jderose> bzr-2.1.0rc1         4981.1.6
<jderose> bzr-2.1.0rc2         4797.6.1
<jderose> bzr-2.1.1            4797.41.1
<jderose> bzr-2.1.2            4797.55.1
<George_e> Okay.
<jderose> George_e: does lp:stackapplet point to your development tip?
<jderose> (guess it does, you just commited 7 minutes ago)  ;)
<jderose> Okay, branching...
<jderose> George_e: so you tagged your release...
<jderose> now branch like this: bzr branch lp:stackapplet lp:~george-edison55/stackapplet/1.4
<George_e> jderose: Okay... And that creates a separate branch for the 1.4 release?
<jderose> George_e: yes, you will see all branches that haven't been merged here: https://code.launchpad.net/stackapplet
<jderose> actually, maybe create a test one right now and i'll walk you trough a real live merge
<George_e> Ah.. that makes sense.
<George_e> Okay.
<George_e> Can I delete it after?
<jderose> you'll just merge into a throwaway branch... yep
<George_e> Okay.
<jderose> Run this: bzr branch lp:stackapplet lp:~george-edison55/stackapplet/dummy-1.4
<George_e> Okay.
<jderose> Okay, see how it show's up here now: https://code.launchpad.net/stackapplet
<George_e> Oh yeah.
<jderose> Okay, now I just branched from your 1.4 branch: bzr branch lp:~george-edison55/stackapplet/dummy-1.4 lp:~jderose/stackapplet/dummy-1.4-bugfix
<jderose> Which you now also see here: https://code.launchpad.net/stackapplet
<jderose> George_e: have you used bzr "shared repositories" before?
<George_e> I don't know.
<jderose> George_e: Okay, more learning, but this is cool stuff... opinions very here, but here's how I like to work....
<jderose> George_e: Okay, maybe cd into /tmp for this as we're just playing
<jderose> cd tmp
<George_e> Okay sure.
<George_e> Now what?
<jderose> bzr init-repo stackapplet
 * George_e thinks you meant 'cd /tmp'
<jderose> ah, yeah
<George_e> Okay.
<jderose> cd stackapplet/
<jderose> bzr checkout lp:~george-edison55/stackapplet/dummy-1.4
<George_e> Okay.
<jderose> Okay, and this one should be faster: bzr checkout lp:~jderose/stackapplet/dummy-1.4-bugfix
<George_e> Okay.
<jderose> if you do an ls now (assuming your in /tmp/stackapplet still), you should see dummy-1.4  dummy-1.4-bugfix directories
<George_e> Right.
<jderose> those are two branches, but the revisions (stuff stuff that takes up the space), are store just once in /tmp/stackapplet
<George_e> Ah, neat!
<jderose> i'll show you around more...
<jderose> cd dummy-1.4-bugfix
<jderose> bzr info
<George_e> "checkout of branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jderose/stackapplet/dummy-1.4-bugfix/"
<George_e> ^--- part of output
<jderose> George_e: yeah, and notice it shows you where the shared repository is
<jderose> shared repository: /tmp/stackapplet
<George_e> Okay.
<jderose> okay, now i'm going to make some changes, hang on a sec....
<jderose> okay, so assuming you're still in /tmp/stackapplet/dummy-1.4-bugfix
<jderose> bzr update
<jderose> bzr log --forward
<jderose> you should see the revno 46 commit that i made "Said hello to George"
<jderose> George_e: that work?
<George_e> Yup.
<jderose> George_e: so by peoriodically running bzr update you can track my progress and have a convient local copy
<George_e> I see... how does 'bzr update' differ from 'bzr pull'?
<jderose> George_e: Good question. :) there are two approaches that basically do the same things...
<jderose> so you can 1) do a checkout, in which case commits are automatically "pushed" do the parent branch when you do a commit, and you do update to pull remote changes into your local branch
<jderose> George_e: or you can 2) branch, make commits, then push to put those commits on launchpad, pull to bring commits from launchpad
<George_e> I have been doing the second option.
<George_e> So when you first create the branch (when starting a project), what choices do you have?
<jderose> the disadvantage of checkouts is you can't commit when offline without some monkey business; the advantage of checkouts is you don't need an extra step to let the word know about the change you just made
<George_e> Ah.
<jderose> George_e: well, it doesn't matter that much, you can switch between the to modes easily
<George_e> How?
<jderose> George_e: so if you're in /tmp/stackapplet/dummy-1.4-bugfix still
<George_e> Yup.
<jderose> just run: bzr unbind
<jderose> now you can work with your familiar push/pull mode
<George_e> I'm guessing 'bzr bind' does the opposite?
<jderose> yeah, although i guess will will have to specify the push location once at first
<George_e> I see.
<jderose> George_e: although you can't push (or commit it) my branch because I own it.  put you can pull from it.
<George_e> Can I try a commit?
<George_e> Oh.
<jderose> I'll have you do the merge in just a sec... :)
<jderose> Okay bind it again: bzr bind
<George_e> Yup.
<jderose> bzr update
<jderose> just have 2 more commits, up to rev 48
<jderose> now:
<jderose> cd ../dummy-1.4
<jderose> bzr merge ../dummy-1.4-bugfix/
<jderose> bzr status -v
<George_e> Yup, it lists 3 pending merges.
<jderose> A cool thing about bzr is that merge doesn't automatically merge, the merge itself is a point on the history that must be committed
<jderose> bzr commit -m "Merged fix from Jason"
<George_e> And it will get pushed automatically, right?
<jderose> yep, that's how a checkout works (bound branch)
<George_e> Right.
<jderose> bzr log --forward --include-merges
<jderose> George_e: scroll up till you see revno: 46 [merge]
<George_e> Yeah, I see it.
<George_e> I see extra version numbers have sneaked in too.
<George_e> (45.1.1, etc.)
<jderose> When you use the --include-merges options you see the sub-history... the 3 commits on my branch
<jderose> yeah, this is the bzr hierarchical history and it's awesome
<jderose> for example, try it without the flag: bzr log --forward
<jderose> it collapses the child history, so you can have a quick overview of say trunk
<George_e> Okay... now it just displays the merge revision.
<jderose> but you can also drill down into the child-history and get all the nice meta-data there, see my thought process
<George_e> Right.
<George_e> When you have a lot of people contributing that would be very valuable.
<jderose> George_e: yes, and a time saver... i can explain what i'm doing though commit messages, something i'm doing anyway
<jderose> George_e: so that's how you would merge a fix into your maintenance branch. same process if you were merge into trunk.
<George_e> Ah, I get it.
<jderose> George_e: opinions and circumstances difference on whether you should use checkout+update or push+pull, but the branch/merge semantics are the same either way
<George_e> Yeah, it's a matter of preference, I guess.
<George_e> Thanks so much for the tutorial!
<jderose> George_e: and situation. i work mostly from a workstation with pretty reliable Internet, so checkout+update fits well for me
<jderose> George_e: no prob, lauchpad and bzr are great tools, happy to pass on what i know about them.  :)
<George_e> Me too - I'm always at home when committing. (Well _almost_...)
<George_e> jderose: Should we get rid of the branches?
<jderose> ah, yeah. you can delete it through the web ui: https://code.launchpad.net/~george-edison55/stackapplet/dummy-1.4
<jderose> i'll delete mine.
<George_e> Thanks again!
<jderose> George_e: no prob, i'll have to checkout StackApplet :)
<George_e> Great! You can find a breif overview of version 1.3 here: http://stackapps.com/questions/83/stackapplet-stackoverflow-meets-the-gnome-desktop-v1-4-beta-1-available-for-te
<jderose> Hmmm, are source package recipes currently horked? I'm getting an Oops when I request a build.
<lifeless> !oops
<ubot5> An OOPS is a system error in launchpad, please see https://help.launchpad.net/Oops
<lifeless> bah, need to tweak that
<lifeless> jderose: we need to see the OOPS to comment.
<jderose> lifeless: so just the link will work then?
<jderose> lifeless: Error ID: OOPS-1773B467
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1773B467
<lifeless> jderose: just waiting for that to sync
<jderose> lifeless: cool, thanks :)
<lifeless> jderose: ok, got it up
<lifeless> jderose: you need to use 'edge' for now
<lifeless> jderose: we no longer redirect to edge automatically.
<lifeless> because we're in the process of removing 'edge'.
<lifeless> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/%7Enovacut/+recipe/dmedia-daily/+request-builds
<lifeless> should work
<jderose> lifeless: ah, okay... rockstar told me edge went away, i thought it didn't do anything anymore
<lifeless> the servers are still there
<jderose> but i misunderstood a bit ;)
<lifeless> we're transitioning edge only things onto the main cluster
<jderose> lifeless: okay, cool. is there anyway to know when source package recipes are running on the main cluster?
<lifeless> when the revno at the bottom right of pages shows 11866 or higher
<jderose> lifeless: awesome, thanks!
<geser> bigjools: can you check why https://launchpad.net/~pali/+archive/kopete/+build/1973460 is still uploading (for over 2 weeks now)? (see also https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/662419/comments/2)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 662419 in Soyuz "Cannot upload build (dup-of: 653720)" [Undecided,New]
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 653720 in Soyuz "UploadProcessor doesn't set FAILEDTOUPLOAD on exceptions (affected: 2, heat: 18)" [Critical,Fix released]
<bigjools> jelmer: ^
<jelmer> bigjools: Looking into it.
<bigjools> jelmer: there's still some builds stuck on "uploading" it seems
<bigjools> I don't know if there's any new ones since your fix though
<popey> If there's any admins about it looks like https://launchpad.net/~mess110 has spammed bug 11334
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 11334 in X.Org X server "MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste (affected: 257, heat: 1314)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11334
<mrevell> allenap, pingaling
<mrevell> Thanks popey, I'll take a look
<popey> np
<allenap> mrevell: Cheers.
<bdrung> where do i report spam in bug reports (last comment in bug #11334)?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 11334 in X.Org X server "MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste (affected: 257, heat: 1314)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11334
<jpds> bdrung: Already being looked into (see above).
<bdrung> oh, thanks
<AlexC_> morning
<AlexC_> I have to ask, what is going on with the Launchpad interface? It looks so unfinished and, well ... crappy. There are just things everywhere, inconsistent margins. bold text that draws your eye to things that simply don't need attention given to them, random colors.
<AlexC_> compare the current with how it looked like 1, 1 1/2 years ago, it's quite shocking
<napster> Can I use this ppa https://launchpad.net/~nvidia-vdpau/+archive/cutting-edge-multimedia with Meerkat?
<ubuntu4shane> ok, I was trying to setup a PPA and successfully setup one, however I logged in on my laptop, and it isn't there, I'm thinking I have two launchpad accounts, and didn't realize it, is there a way to merge them?
<ubuntu4shane> is that possible?
<bigjools> hey sinzui, are you CHR today? ^
<ubuntu4shane> ok, I did confirm that I have two accounts, this comes as news to me, I never realized it!  is there a way to merge these two accounts?
<bigjools> there is but I can't remember how you do it
<sinzui> bigjools, I was just getting my coffee and start it
<bigjools> but there's a man who does
<bigjools> morning sinzui :)
<sinzui> ubuntu4shane, you are a victim of Ubuntu's Single Signon and the deep Lp authentication code
<ubuntu4shane> sinzui, yes, I don't know how that happened, I mean I do have 2 email addresses (who doesn't) the funny thing is I never realized it.
<ubuntu4shane> which I now have to ask, which one am I using for UbuntuOne?  :)
<sinzui> ubuntu4shane, I think you want to start by merging one into the other. Use the "Request a merge" link on https://launchpad.net/people to start the merge. You must be logged in as the profile you want to keep, and enter the id of the profile that must go away
<sinzui> ubuntu4shane, you will be sent an email to confirm you control the other email address.
* sinzui changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: sinzui | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<ubuntu4shane> sinzui, thanks!  glad it can be done
<ubuntu4shane> sinzui, that was simple enough, I assume that all my bugs will then be linked to both accounts
<sinzui> ubuntu4shane, yes, they will. You karma will look odd for a few days. It is fixed by a secondary process
<sinzui> ubuntu4shane, if you get a timeout error, reload the browser. merge is slow but it will complete when whipped with successive ctrl+r presses
<ubuntu4shane> sinzui, ok, thanks a bundle for the info!
<mtaylor> in launchpadlib, is there a way to get a particular team if you know the exact name? it seems like what I have is launchpad.people.findTeam(text="blah")
<james_w> mtaylor, lp.people["blah"] I think
<cody-somerville> mtaylor, launchpad.people['blah']
<mtaylor> awesome
<jpds> What a cool team name.
<mtaylor> heh
<piken> Hi all, is there a way to display a file in a raw format in the web browser the way you can with github?
<sinzui> piken, I do not know what you mean by raw. Do you mean the see the unannotated contents of a file
<piken> yes
<piken> here is an example github link
<piken> https://github.com/piken/unified-install/raw/master/src/manifest.global
<piken> That actually displays the raw text of the file as if accessing the file directly.
<sinzui> piken, loggerhead does not support this. It will make you download the file.
<Linuxsapien> how to change account Email address please?
<lifeless> Linuxsapien: login, register a new email address in your account, disable the old email address (in that order)
<Linuxsapien> thank for that lifeless but I managed to get it
<Linuxsapien> once ya find help, its easy to read :D
<piken> sinzui: ty, looks like I will b staying with github for now
<paddy_> I created a key for launchpad with gpg --gen-key but i cannot find the file i give to launchpad, the key appears in seahorse though
<sinzui> paddy_, did you publish your key to an Ubuntu keyserver over 30 minutes ago?
<lifeless> sinzui: paddy_ had not found the +editgpgkeys page
<lifeless> sinzui: I helped them in #ubuntu-devel
<sinzui> paddy_, using seahorse you can publish the key to keyserver.ubuntu.com. It can take about 30 minutes before launchpad will see it
<sinzui> thanks lifeless
<sinzui> lifeless, why do we send an email to confirm gpg keys. I ask because quickly wants to assist the new user to setup gpg keys?
<sinzui> I think Lp could let me upload an encrypted test document to verify my public key
<lifeless> sinzui: IIRC the logic was
<lifeless> gpg ids are email addresses
<lifeless> we shouldn't let someone use a gpg id for an email address they don't control.
<lifeless> doing an email round trip both shows they control the gpg key and the email address.
<sinzui> That is still a good reason
<lifeless> I think it would be plausible to skip the round trip where we already believe they have the email address
<lifeless> we'd still want to see that they can sign /encrypt with the key
<sinzui> lifeless, we do not control the email address anymore. SSO does. We take it for granted in the case of the average user
<sinzui> only user with more than on address will be confirmed by Lp
<lifeless> so
<lifeless> in the generic open id consumer story
<lifeless> we wouldn't want to let someone setup a provider
<lifeless> claim to have mark at canonical dot com, and sign in
<lifeless> nor grab that as a gpg key
<sinzui> lifeless, okay. So I think we really want to keep this requirement. Quickly needs to set user expectations and clearly to keep the user engaged
<lifeless> we could iterate towards some known conditions where we can loosen it, but it seems nontrivial to me
<paddy_> I tried to tell bzr about my launchpad account but it says I have no ssh keys, it's right but I have an openPGP key instead, can I not use this?
<spiv> paddy_: bzr uses ssh to connect to Launchpad, not gpg
<paddy_> spiv, thanks
* sinzui changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
#launchpad 2010-11-09
<micahg> is it a soyuz bug if the build score is based on all the entries in teh changelog and not just the top entry?
<wgrant> micahg: No. It's based on the Urgency field in the changes file.
<wgrant> micahg: That should be the maximum urgency from all included changelog entries, I believe.
<wgrant> But regardless it is not a Soyuz bug.
<micahg> wgrant: ah, ok, so it's not a bug
 * micahg will just skip the -v on the PPA next time then
<spiv> Hmm.  I just did 'resubmit proposal' on a merge proposal without realising that it would have been better (in terms of the email produced at least) to update the description *first*.
<spiv> I was expecting it to prompt me to update it, maybe show me a form along the lines of the original form used to file the MP.
<StevenK> spiv: Yes, that would be nice.
<StevenK> spiv: I've been tripped up with that myself
<paddy_> With the ssh key it says paddy@paddy-desktop should it be <launchpad username>@launchpad.net. bzr is not working for me
<spiv> paddy_: the name in the key doesn't matter at all
<spiv> paddy_: what does 'ssh -v -l <launchpad username> bazaar.launchpad.net' output?  (pastebin it)
<paddy_> http://pastebin.com/8K7xrsQn spiv
<spiv> paddy_: "#
<spiv> Agent admitted failure to sign using the key."
<spiv> That's your problem.
<spiv> You probably need to run 'ssh-add' or something like that.
<paddy_> spiv that worked, thanks
<neeraj> Hi, while uploading my package in ppa, I am getting this error msg again and again or two/six packages which I am packaging. Rejected Unable to find sugar-presence-service-0.90_0.90.1.orig.tar.bz2 in upload or distribution. Files specified in DSC are broken or missing, skipping package unpack verification.
<neeraj> anyhelp?
<bigjools> neeraj: it means you're not uploading the .orig file and it can't find the one you're referencing in the dsc file in the distro or your ppa
<neeraj> but the orig file is present in the folder alongside dsc file named sugar-presence-service-0.90_0.90.1.orig.tar.bz2
<neeraj>  debuild -S command asked me for it. So I am sure while building the package this orig file was used.
<wgrant> neeraj: debuild uses it, but it won't upload it unless you give it the '-sa' option.
<neeraj> I can't believe how on earth I didn't tried -sa and keep using -s flag. Wasted hours trying to solve this error. :(
<neeraj> wgrant: bigjools thanks :)
<neeraj> with -sa flag , I got this msg Source/binary (i.e. mixed) uploads are not allowed.
<neeraj> Rejected ^
<wgrant> neeraj: You need both -S and -sa
<neeraj> Ohh.. wgrant thanks gain. So whenever I will use .orig file while building I have to use both -S and -sa and If I don't then only -S will work.?
<glen> hi. can i somehow search for translations for my language across any projects?
<glen> i mean i want to know how "somesentence" is translated in rosetta, as i know launchpad has hundreds or project translations
<glen> yet i don't have myself a project so it would suggest me
<henninge> glen: I am sorry, we don't have that option.
<henninge> Also, even if you had a project, you would not see them atm because global suggestions have been deactivated to avoid page timeouts.
<glen> yet it does sometimes suggest me translations from other projects, that is disabled now? or it just limits the result by some range?
<neeraj> is there a anyway so that we can reduce build time on launchpad. I don't get much time for packaging and can't move ahead without verifying initial packages.
<neeraj> *?
<wgrant> neeraj: Have you tried using pbuilder locally?
<wgrant> You should be testing on your own machine before you upload to Launchpad.
<neeraj> I have tested on my own machine but build was failing on launchpad due to some error.
<wgrant> Tested with pbuilder, or something else?
<wgrant> pbuilder and sbuild ensure a clean build environment, so you can be sure you've got all the right build dependencies set.
<neeraj> cbds version unmet denpendency. I build the package using debuild and installed the deb file.
<neeraj> Ok reading about pbuilder
<berco> Hi
<cake_> i cant create a test project, i get an error which says i should reload the page after some time. now after the reload it tells me that url is taken BUT im 100% sure its not, ive picked serveral loong random ones
<ogra_ac> hey, any LOSA around ?
<berco> Can anyone help me enable "natty" on our PPA?
<ogra_ac> berco (TI) has a prob with the TI ppa
 * ogra_ac would expect natty to happen automatically there, but apparently it doesnt
<berco> TI PPA @ https://launchpad.net/~tiomap-dev
<bigjools> berco: just upload to natty
<zyga> are natty chroots for package buildin expect to fail?
<berco> bigjools: nothing needed? I remember my package got rejected last week
<bigjools> berco: I was not around last week, what was the rejection?
<bigjools> AFAIK it should work
<berco> bigjools: I need to try again as I deleted the email...
<bigjools> ok let me know
<berco> bigjools: one other question I had last week was if I can list the distributions that I support in my changelog or if only one is allowed.
<berco> for instance, is this allowed in the debian/changelog: titiler-memmgr (0.24.11-0ubuntu1) maverick natty; urgency=low
<bigjools> berco: no, LP only supports a single target series
<bigjools> but once it's built you can copy it between series if you don't need to rebuild
<bigjools> otherwise you need to upload different versions to different series
<berco> ok, thanks
<bigjools> let me know if this FAQ explains it adequately: https://answers.launchpad.net/soyuz/+faq/1371
<berco> bigjools: I think the FAQ is clear enough, maybe just need to add "distro series" in the title as when I was looking at the debian policy they call this field "distribution".
<bigjools> berco: ok thanks for the feedback
<berco> bigjools: np
<bigjools> fixed :)
<berco> bigjools: looks like I have an issue uploading to the PPA. Might be related to our internal network, I'm checking
<bigjools> berco: what happens?
<berco> bigjools: when I do the dput, I have "write failed: Broken pipe" message
<bigjools> berco: ftp or sftp?
<berco> bigjools: sftp
<bigjools> berco: are you using maverick?
<berco> bigjools: I'm still on Lucid on my PC machine
<berco> can it explain?
<bigjools> ok that should be ok - there's a known problem with the maverick dput over sftp
<bigjools> have you used sftp before?
<bigjools> and is your public key on your account and your account referenced in the "login" dput conf?
<berco> bigjools: yes, all the time when uploading to our PPA on Launchpad
<berco> bigjools: however, this is first time I try on this particular PPA (ti-omap-private)
<bigjools> not sure what's up then
<berco> bigjools: I just verified my dput.cf file and it has my login
<berco> what about the public key, I forgot what I need to check here
<berco> ?
<bigjools> the service is up and I can ssh it (although it correctly says I can't get a shell)
<bigjools> your ssh key needs to be associated with the account you're sftp-ing to
<berco> bigjools: can you help me verify this latter item please?
<berco> I'mnot confident I have it right
<bigjools> berco: you can do it yourself, just visit the account page in Launchpad
<berco> bigjools: on my account I can see the PPA subscription
<berco> bigjools: so is that mean it's all good?
<bigjools> there's a section mid-right of the page "SSH keys"
<berco> yep, I see this section
<bigjools> https://edge.launchpad.net/people/+me/+sshkeys
<bigjools> should show the keys
<bigjools> make sure the account is the same as the one in the "login =" section of the dput.cf you're using
<berco> bigjools: the information shown at https://edge.launchpad.net/people/+me/+sshkeys is exactly what I have in my ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub
<bigjools> berco: ok, what happens if you ssh <login-name-from-dput>@ppa.launchpad.net ?
<maxb> Incidentally I think I've figured out the dput hang over sftp on maverick - I'll have a go at fixing bzrlib tonight
<berco> bigjools: ssh berco@ppa.launchpad.net
<berco> No shells on this server.
<berco> Connection to ppa.launchpad.net closed.
<berco> bigjools: sorry for the delay but I just tried on my colleague's machine and it worked. So I will try to restart my PC.
 * berco going for a reboot
<berco> bigjools: I've been able to upload. Package has been accepted on launchpad but my dput command never returns on my PC. I wonder if there's an issue with corscrew as I'm behind a firewall and killing it will allow the dput command to return
<bigjools> berco: there's a known regression with sftp from maverick where it hangs at the end
<bigjools> other than that I don't know of any issues
<bigjools> (sorry was OTP)
<berco> bigjools: ok, thanks for the update. So looks like everything looks as good as it can be :)
<berco> bigjools: thanks for your precious help
<bigjools> berco: no worries, glad to help
<lifeless> fta: hi
<fta> lifeless, hi
<lifeless> when the dashboard script crashes
<lifeless> what does it look like
<lifeless> I mean, how can I tell if I've made it fall down go boom
<fta> i get a py stack with an html page containing an oops
<fta> let me see if i still have some logs
<lifeless> on the console or in a log file or in one of the html outputs ?
<lifeless> fta: I'm running it here to qa this patch
<lifeless> fta: I'm up to batch size 50 without error
<fta> good
<fta> (if it lasts)
<lifeless> well, its a code change to be more sensible
<fta> lifeless, here is one: http://paste.ubuntu.com/528850/
<lifeless> fta: so thats shown on the console that your shell script is running in ?
<fta> yes, the py script is called by a shell script (several times as mentioned in the bug) itself run by cron
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> thats what I was asking - where to look for errors :)
<fta> i get errors in my mailbox
<lifeless> (I know what the errors look like :P)
<fta> i said in the bug nothing is expected on stdout
<fta> except py or lp errors
<paddy_> how do i unassign my self to a bug?
<lifeless> paddy_: click the yellow icon to the right of your name in the table at the time - in the 'assignee' column. Then click 'unassign me'.
<lifeless> fta: 100 works.
<fta> lifeless, \o/
<fta> try the xorg-edgers ppa too, it's quite big: http://sarvatt.com/xorg-edgers/
<lifeless> 200 works
<lifeless> so how does that look ? '$BIN $OPTS xorg-edgers' ?
<fta> view source shows: <!-- args line: -g -r xorg-edgers/ppa ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates -->
<lifeless> trying
<fta> i don't know if anyone else is use it
<fta> also, you should disable the cache, otherwise, there's not much to poll and you'll never hit your limit
<lifeless> ahh
<lifeless> 200 on xorg broke
<lifeless> oh
<fta> maybe for mine too (if you drop the cache)
<lifeless> deploy
<lifeless> HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable
<lifeless> new code landing on qastaging
<fta> o
<fta> h
<lifeless> where does the cache get stored ?
<lifeless> found it
<lifeless> running a full run, all the ppas including xorg-edgers, empty cache
<lifeless> ok the xorg-edgers one died with the 200 size query
<lifeless> fta: however I think it will be tolerable for you for a while, and we can come back later and make it faster still.
<lifeless> fta: its in rev 11888
<lifeless> fta: so when launchpad.net shows that in the bottom right of the page, you should get a performance boost
<fta> lifeless, ok, excellent. thanks!
<fta> lifeless, which chunk size do you recommend?
<lifeless> fta: the largest that works reliably :)
<lifeless> I don't know what that figure will be
<lifeless> fta: we're deploying the fix now
<lifeless> fta: if you're around in a bit it should be usable
<paultag> LP is ooping on me a whole lot, is this already been reported?
<paultag> If not, I've been able to have it OOPS on me lots. Here's the error codes ( so far ) -- http://pastebin.com/JvmF6fwP
<cody-somerville> paultag, Reported. I'm told the're working to fix it now.
<paultag> cody-somerville, awesome. Thanks so much :)
<lifeless> fixed
<lifeless> fta: please be trying the slow api again now
<fta> lifeless, ok. excellent. moved to batches of 50. i'll let you know.
<lifeless> fta: how did it go ?
<fta> lifeless, seems ok.
<lifeless> \o/
<barry> lifeless: https://launchpad.net/~pythoneers/+archive/py27stack4/+packages
<lifeless> barry: large ppa ?
<barry> it does have a lot of packages.  i was actually trying to cull them, but kept getting the oops
<lifeless> barry: when did you start getting the oops
<barry> an hour or so ago
<lifeless> and it was working before that ?
<lifeless> when did you last see it work ?
<barry> lifeless: yesterday
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> so its probably a regression in 11888
<lifeless> hmm
<lifeless> grumble.
<barry> dang
<lifeless> though https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/672371
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 672371 in Soyuz "Archive:+packages timeouts (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [High,Triaged]
<lifeless> when the oops comes through I'll have a peek
<lifeless> till then, lunch
<barry> lifeless: thanks.  i'' be breaking for dinner soon, and i'll subscribe to that bug
#launchpad 2010-11-10
<yofel> I only get an OOPS since today (Error ID: OOPS-1775K8) when trying to open https://launchpad.net/~neon/+archive/ppa/+packages (same as barry maybe?)
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1775K8
<barry> yofel: almost certainly
<yofel> heh
<lifeless> barry: yofel: am getting the timeout raised.
<lifeless> barry: death-by-queries is applying here.
<lifeless> its doing 200 400ms queries.
<barry> lifeless: yay.  /me -> dinner
<yofel> thanks
<micahg> wow, time for a stored procedure?
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> much of launchpad has very OOP code
<lifeless> but OOP code doesn't work with DB's
<micahg> ah
<lifeless> yofel: barry: try now ?
<yofel> Error ID: OOPS-1775C44
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1775C44
<lifeless> ok
<lifeless> uhm, we may need to revert back my change; I'll let the dev list know just in case.
<lifeless> I'll also put more elbow grease into fixing directly
<barry> lifeless: cool, thanks
<maxb> Hmm, is Launchpad melting?
<maxb> I'm getting timeouts merely trying to view a PPA's +packages
<lifeless> its that one page
<lifeless> I fixed an API performance, but it had a regression
<poolie> no more edge redirects? how excellent!
<lifeless> :)
<chrisccoulson_> hmmmm, i'm getting an OOPS trying to view https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+packages this morning
<chrisccoulson_> OOPS-1775EA523
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1775EA523
<tseliot> hi, any ideas as to why I get a timeout when I try to access this page? https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa/+packages
<tseliot> ErrorÂ ID:Â OOPS-1775M731
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1775M731
<lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/672371
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 672371 in Soyuz "Archive:+packages timeouts (affected: 3, heat: 20)" [High,Triaged]
<hyperair> hi. is there a way to disable merge requests on code.launchpad.net and put a notice to direct patches elsewhere, say to an upstream bug report instead?
<rlpb> Anyone else getting timeout errors on launchpad?
<spiv> hyperair: there used to be a flag that could be set, but I can't find it atm
<hyperair> spiv: i see.
<hyperair> hmm
<hyperair> spiv: who could i poke about this flag?
<spiv> hyperair: file a bug or support request on launchpad itself I guess.
<czajkowski> mrevell: aloha there
<mrevell> Hey there fellow Brit :)
<czajkowski> I've invaded
<mrevell> Heh
<czajkowski> mrevell: so far so good, finally got an interview for NI number rather than a 2 month wait now it's 2.5 weeks, still house hunting though.
<mrevell> czajkowski, Are you staying with relatives atm?
<czajkowski> nope friends in Farnham
<czajkowski> enjoying the train rides
<mrevell> Oh cool
<czajkowski> aye so far so good
<rlpb> Any launchpad sysadmins around? I'm getting timeout errors.
<bilalakhtar> rlpb: Are you using edge or production?
<rlpb> production
<rlpb> only this page: https://launchpad.net/~freenx-team/+archive/ppa/+packages
<rlpb> others seem to work fine
<bilalakhtar> probably the number of packages on that PPA is large
<bilalakhtar> hmm, it appears that the page takes a lot of time to generate, hence hitting the timeout limit
<bilalakhtar> Someone, please inversigate (Error ID: OOPS-1775B1108)
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1775B1108
<yofel_> rlpb, bilalakhtar: I had that yesterday, lifeless was taking a look at it (bug 672371)
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 672371 in Soyuz "Archive:+packages timeouts (affected: 3, heat: 20)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/672371
<rlpb> thanks yofel
<bigjools> a fix is landing for that today
<Cimi_> I need a help, my messages sent to dx-team@lists.launchpad.net are not received, something like that
<macagua> hi guys
<macagua> https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project have support for i18n ?
<Cimi_> ^^ help launchpad admins
<beuno> macagua, no, Launchpad is not translatable
<beuno> Cimi_, have you asked an admin to see if they are being held for moderation?
<Cimi_> no moderation
<Cimi_> not shown at all
<Cimi_> tip: I've been added to dx-team on monday, so they might have forgotten a step
<dbarth> hi, anyone here can help with a mailing list issue? apparently Cimi_ is in "read only" mode(?!) on one of our lists
<beuno> Cimi_, and you are ending it to one of the email addresses in launchpad?
<beuno> no something else?  an alias?
<Cimi_> beuno: right, maybe I'm using cimi@canonical.com in launchpad, which is an alias
<beuno> Cimi_, that'll be a reason why it doesn't go through
<dbarth> beuno: ahah, thanks for the tip
<Cimi_> not sure eh
<Cimi_> I have sent the new mail
<Cimi_> let's see if it arrives dbarth :)
<macagua> beuno: but is possible translate? using ZPT?
<dpm> macagua, if you are interested in contributing to make it translatable, here are some pointers :) -> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-launchpad-n-internationalized-answers
<macagua> dpm: Yes I would like to help Thanks xD
<Cimi_> dbarth: didn't arrive
<dbarth> Cimi_: it did now
<Cimi_> ok thx
<bilalakhtar> Does bug #5292 affect users now as well?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 5292 in Launchpad Foundations "People setting preferred contact address to @ubuntu.com (affected: 7, heat: 41)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/5292
<pmatulis> is there a LP sandbox where i can conduct some test bugs?
<jml> staging.launchpad.net
<jml> pmatulis: ^
<pmatulis> jml: nice, thanks
<pmatulis> jml: darn --> (Error ID: OOPS-1775S157)
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1775S157
<jml> pmatulis: there's a bit of lag between OOPS generation and me being able to see them
<jml> pmatulis: but if it's a timeout, I suggest trying again.
<pmatulis> jml: hopeless, keeps timing out
<saedelaere> hi
<saedelaere> i just tried to reupload my packages to launchpad because of some minor changes. the package was rejected
<saedelaere> Unhandled exception processing upload: christian@christian-desktop is not a valid email address.
<saedelaere> Sure this is not my e-mail address, but why is this address used?
<saedelaere> I don't understand this, it worked without any problems before and now this.
<saedelaere> ok forget about it. my fault. problem solved :)
<saedelaere> but there is the next problem :/
<saedelaere> now I get a message "Package has already been uploaded to ppa on ppa.launchpad.net
<saedelaere> "
<saedelaere> although it was rejected
<saedelaere> ok [dput -f] and this problem is also solved
<bjf> i'm trying to set the status of a bug_task via the api, i'm testing on the staging server, I don't see my status change though i'm not seeing any error either
<wgrant> bjf: Did you call lp_save() on the object?
<bjf> nope, will do
<bjf> wgrant, ^ thanks
<odony> just reported bug 673776
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 673776 in Launchpad itself "Converting a bug to a question almost always fails with Timeout Error (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/673776
<odony> anyone know if there is chance to get the timeout error fixed soon?
<mtaylor> meh. I really wish pushing to packaging branches would stack on the dev focus rather than on the UDD packaging branch ... or that I didn't have to request UDD branch alias assignment via a bug
<mtaylor> bzr push lp:~drizzle-developers/ubuntu/natty/drizzle/nightly is, well... taking a WHILE
<beuno> mtaylor, I believe you can tell it what to stack on
<beuno> --stacked-on
<mwhudson> mtaylor: bzr push --stacked-on lp:drizzle actually works now
<mtaylor> mwhudson: oh good
<mtaylor> beuno: I was about to say "yeah, but stacked-on doesn't grok lp: prefixes"
<mwhudson> hm, you might have to expand the lp: part actually
<mtaylor> yeah. I did last time I tried it
<mwhudson> but the branch that gets created actually works now at least :-)
<mtaylor> and it created a repo remotely before erroring -so there was no way to recover
<beuno> mtaylor, note how I tried very hard to avoid being more specific  :)
<mtaylor> hehe
<odony> mtaylor: remote bad branch is created as soon as you fail the --stacked-on creation, but you can always delete it via the web interface and try again after fixing the parameters
 * saedelaere zzz
#launchpad 2010-11-11
<bilalakhtar> Is the PPA upload processing daemon down?
<bilalakhtar> I uploaded a package 20 minutes ago, still no mail , nothing
<bilalakhtar> and the signature and other stuff was good
<bilalakhtar> Now its going to be 25 minutes, still no mail, still no upload on the page
<bilalakhtar> Anyone here with the same problem?
<maxb> urgh
<maxb> ubuntu-mozilla-daily needs its own build farm
<sladen> Since  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-font-family/+expirable-bugs   is a non-empty list, what does one have to do, in order to get expiry to work
<sladen> if the automatic one still doesn't work, is there still a Python/API script that I can use to do it?
<kiko> sladen, there's a switch on the project to turn expiry on; is it on for that project?
<romaia> hello all. I am trying to create a new branch, but this is shown:
<romaia> $ bzr branch lp:stoq
<romaia> ssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused
<romaia> any idea what is happening?
<jderose> romaia: i think i might be having a similar problem: TooManyConcurrentRequests: The medium 'SmartSSHClientMedium(bzr+ssh://jderose@bazaar.launchpad.net/)' has reached its concurrent request limit. Be sure to finish_writing and finish_reading on the currently open request.
<jderose> lp:674033
<kiko> thumper, mrevell: bzr/ssh bustage?
<mrevell> abentley, Do we know of anything, wrt kiko's question above?
<romaia> looks like its back
<abentley> mrevell: No.
<romaia> yeap. its working again
<romaia> thx
<mrevell> romaia, Good to hear. Let me know if you have any further issues.
<mrevell> Thanks kiko
<mrevell> cheers abentley
<kiko> abentley, mrevell, why are we having these issues intermittently?
<kiko> is this something we're keeping track of?
<abentley> kiko: I guess because if we were having them all the time, they'd have obvious causes?
<kiko> abentley, is that your best answer??
<kiko> flacoste, yo!
<abentley> kiko: I haven't been aware of this as more than an occasional issue.
<al-maisan> hello there! When I try to create a merge proposal using the ls-submit plugin as follows: "bzr ls-submit -v --staging" I get an error that's sticky i.e. does not go away:
<al-maisan> bzr: ERROR: File exists: '/srv/bazaar.la
<al-maisan> unchpad.net/mirrors/00/06/2e/ea'
<al-maisan> Could somebody from the code hosting team please look into this?
<berco> Hi
<berco> We (TI) created to PPA on our Launchpad https://launchpad.net/~tiomap-dev i.e. "TI OMAP Private trunk PPA" and "TI OMAP trunk PPA"
<berco> Can a LOSA make them ARMEL and have the "OMAP Private trunk PPA" made PRIVATE please?
<berco> bigjools: is that something you can do ^
<ogra_ac> any LOSA should be able to
<zaytsev> hi folks
<zaytsev> yesterday lp was dying when I was trying to open detailed ppa package view page
<zaytsev> today my pushes to the ppaare completely ignored
<zaytsev> there's an outage going on or it's just me?
<bigjools> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+faq/227
<bigjools> if the reason is not there, then the package has a fault which is crashing the upload processor (a bug I need to fix)
<zaytsev> bigjools, I've been using it for ages. I know about these pitfalls
<zaytsev> I've been pushing libgadu if you can check whether this is the case
<bigjools> it's falling over when processing your upload
<bigjools> might be an outage on the librarian, one sec
<bigjools> oh wait, that was at 0730 UTC, have you tried since?
<berco> Can a LOSA look at my request please?
<berco> ^^
<Chex> berco: looking now, sorry
<Chex> berco: all set on both of those requests.
<berco> Chex: thanks a lot
<serfus> some help is needed here
<serfus> i can't mange to recover my password
<serfus> conf email just dosn't arrive
<spiv> Huh, resubmitting a merge proposal keeps the old description, but not the old commit message?
#launchpad 2010-11-12
<sladen> kiko: yes, expiry is on
<sladen> kiko: but I haven't seen any of the bugs actually expired.  Is it possible that LP is actually going to wait 60 days /from/ when it was enabled before the first bugs are expired (even if they are already >= 60 days without update?)
<wgrant> sladen: The expiry script isn't running yet.
<wgrant> We are in the middle of the roadmap to turn it back on.
<sladen> wgrant: ah right, when does it start (I've been seeing emails about it for the last couple of months, so assumed that it had happened by now)
<sladen> wgrant: is there some Python/API script I can use in the meantime?
<wgrant> sladen: Not sure, sorry.
<bilalakhtar> Help! Branches aren't pushing! I expect an LP error! http://paste.ubuntu.com/530504/
<bilalakhtar> The push isn't coming up on LP
<bilalakhtar> okay, it came
<bilalakhtar> I think bzr was unable to poke LP to scan immediately
<bilalakhtar> but it DID push the branch
<spiv> bilalakhtar: it's https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/674305
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 674305 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "bzr push occasionally reports AssertionError on terminal (affected: 2, heat: 10)" [High,Triaged]
<spiv> bilalakhtar: as you saw, the push succeeds, and it appears LP still scans the branch just fine, so I'm not sure if it has any impact other than looking scary.
<spiv> bilalakhtar: please link that pastebin to the bug, though
<bilalakhtar> spiv: yes, doing that already
<spiv> bilalakhtar: and specifically highlight that that pastebin shows it can happen even in the "No new revisions to push" case.
<bilalakhtar> spiv: oops, missed that in my first comment, doing it now
 * micahg wonders why PPAs are still building for Jaunty
<danilo_> henninge, hey, what's up?
<henninge> danilo_: Hi!
<maxb> Are there any networking issues in the canonical datacentre right now?
<maxb> I can't reach security.ubuntu.com or archive.canonical.com, and traceroute dies with gi1-0-1.oxygen.canonical.com being the last successful hop
<maxb> losa ping?
<gmb> maxb, losa: I'm seeing errors when pushing branches, too.
<maxb> huh, bazaar.launchpad.net:22 appears up to me
<jml> wow
<jml> never got bzr: ERROR: Server sent an unexpected error: ('error', "<Fault -1: 'Unexpected Zope exception: RequestExpired: request expired.'>")
<jml>  before
<gmb> maxb: Yeah, they're (I think) internal XML-RPC server errors.
<jml> there are issues with the data center
<jml> I just checked
<gmb> maxb: Apparently there are DC issues
<gmb> Hah
<gmb> Great minds.
<gmb> (Actually, I just tend to follow jml around in the hope that I'll do something that looks smart)
<jml> gmb: I'm just easily distracted
<wgrant> [3
<nessita> good morning! quick question, how can I set the default visibility of bugs and branches for a given project?
<maxb> nessita: I think that might require admin intervention. Also privacy usually requires a commercial subscription
<jml> so, what's going on here? http://paste.ubuntu.com/530670/
<jml> xmlrpclib.Fault: <Fault -1: 'Unexpected Zope exception: AssertionError: '>
<spiv> jml: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/674305
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 674305 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "bzr push occasionally reports AssertionError on terminal (affected: 4, heat: 20)" [High,Triaged]
 * spiv -> zzz
<spiv> jml: there was a little discussion on #launchpad-dev 12-ish hours ago
<jml> spiv: ta
<fta> doh! http://paste.ubuntu.com/530702/
<shadeslayer> is there a way i can monitor a build through my shell?
<shadeslayer> like.. all the output from that builder redirected to my konsole
<bigjools> shadeslayer: no, that's not possible
<shadeslayer> bigjools: ok
<bigjools> shadeslayer: with a small bit of work the logtail could be exposed through the API though
<shadeslayer> that would be cool
<shadeslayer> i just want that i login via lp-shell and can monitor the build when i put in the build number
<bigjools> shadeslayer: please file a bug and perhaps someone will pick it up
<shadeslayer> i probably will
<mpt> "Toto, I have a feeling we're not on edge.launchpad.net any more."
<jml> mpt: indeed not
<bdrung> launchpad failed to import an svn branch ( https://code.launchpad.net/~bdrung/+junk/opal-compiler ). where should i file this bug?
<jml> bdrung: bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-code
<shtylman> any news on when the launchpad builder will support making orig.tar files for source format 3?
<ari-tczew> I thought that it's fixed.
<shtylman> nope, had the problem when building from a receipie in edge today
<aaron01> I'm getting "xmlrpclib.Fault: <Fault -1: 'Unexpected Zope exception: AssertionError: '>" when trying to push up changes. (full traceback: http://www.pastie.org/private/kbgfabcx0bgv6rl2bksjtg)
<lifeless> we're having some load issues on an internal system
<lifeless> we hope to have it fixed early next week :(. Until then please retry.
<lifeless> flacoste: ^ its a shame we can't get something done sooner
<aaron01> lifeless: thanks.
<flacoste> aaron01: from my understanding, it succeeds?
<aaron01> flacoste: seems to, yes.
<sense> I've created a project on Launchpad for my LoCo and would like to make sure my subteam leaders can add the already existing Launchpad projects as subprojects of the new ubuntu-nl project. However, I heard that due to a recent change it it necessary to have a special kind of project if you want to use subprojects. Is it possible to use an already existing Launchpad project for this, and how do I do this?
<sense> It used to be very easy to do this with regular projects, but apparently something was changed.
* flacoste changed the topic of #launchpad to: Transient warnings when pushing to Launchpad: ETA for fix is next week | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
* flacoste changed the topic of #launchpad to: Due to increase load, you may encounter spurious stack traces when pushing to Launchpad | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<ovnicraft> hi folks, there is anyway to support plugins in lp?
<ovnicraft> i will use bzr-colo and need push in lp
* flacoste changed the topic of #launchpad to: Code imports disabled for the week-end due to increased load. This should eliminate the traceback people were seeing on bzr push | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
#launchpad 2010-11-13
<jhl> I just tried to push my code to lp and ended up with this error: http://dpaste.com/274631/
<jhl> Any ideas what's wrong?
<lifeless> yes
<lifeless> we have a degraded service on a backend server
<lifeless> push again
<jhl> OK, thanks.
<jhl> lifeless: "No new revisions to push."
<lifeless> that should be fine now
<jhl> Yep, looks like all is well.
<jhl> Thanks.
<mtaylor> lifeless: fun for you
<lifeless> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/674305
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 674305 in Launchpad Bazaar Integration "bzr push reporting AssertionError on terminal (affected: 10, heat: 52)" [High,Triaged]
<jhl> Achla.
* lifeless changed the topic of #launchpad to: http://pad.lv/674305 Code imports disabled for the week-end to mitigate bzr push errors | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<lifeless> #/topic Assertion Error when pushing? see http://pad.lv/674305 | Code imports disabled for the week-end to mitigate this |
* lifeless changed the topic of #launchpad to: Assertion Error when pushing? see http://pad.lv/674305 | Code imports disabled for the week-end to mitigate this | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ | Read https://help.launchpad.net/ for help | On-call help contact: - | Join https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-users | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | Launchpad is open source: https://dev.launchpad.net/
<geser> is there a way to figure out with LP API which architectures are supported in each release?
<wgrant> geser: For which meaning of "supported"?
<wgrant> On archive.ubuntu.com, or in the release at all?
<geser> wgrant: I'm working on the FBTFS script (I'm working on adding support for package sets) and asked myself while working on the script if I can fetch the architecture list for a release from LP instead of hard-coding the list in the script itself
<wgrant> geser: It doesn't look like that's possible at the moment. Could you file a bug on Soyuz?
<geser> sure
<wgrant> I might fix it tomorrow.
<geser> wgrant: bug 674854
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 674854 in Soyuz "[API] Add a way to get the list of "supported" architectures for each release (affected: 1, heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674854
<geser> wgrant: do you know if distro_arch_series.official can be used to check if the arch is on archive.u.c or ports.u.c?
<wgrant> geser: That isn't what controls the split, but I think that it should always match.
<wgrant> So I'd use that.
<fishor> hi all, do any one know best play to talk about new unity-compiz?
<kklimonda> I've found a funny bug in Launchpad's code browser: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kklimonda/kangaroo/master/annotate/head%3A/tests/gtk-cell-renderers.c - line 87th is reversed.. sort of ;)
<kklimonda> or maybe it's a bug in firefox..
<tsimpson> kklimonda: looks the same in FF, opera and chrome, so it's not browser-specific
<tsimpson> kklimonda: though, the odd thing is that when you look at the page source it's seems correct, so maybe it's that all the browsers are broken :)
<ujjain> how can launchpad help me with having a multi-lingual site?
<tsimpson> ujjain: what exactly are you asking?
<ujjain> tsimpson: I dont know. I was recommended Launchpad, but donÂ´t know why, if and how it could help me.
<ujjain> I read the wiki page :p
<tsimpson> Launchpad does do translations, but it's mostly for programs
<lifeless> ujjain: if you want to have your site translated, launchpad can help.
<tsimpson> unless you used some programming language for your site (PHP/Python/Perl/Ruby/etc)..
<lifeless> if you use its translations facility.
<lifeless> ujjain: there are several sites (like, for instance login.ubuntu.com) that use Launchpad translations to have their page templates translated.
<ujjain> I use PHP/MySQL, considering using CakePHP.
<ujjain> Does Launchpad offer a list of translations? or is it used for your site users to help translate?
<ujjain> and as a way to manage and implement translations by users.
<lifeless> the latter
<lifeless> (amongst other things)
<lifeless> http://help.launchpad.net/
<ujjain> Hmm,, how can I obtain translation data? via cvs?
<lifeless> bzr
<lifeless> or downloads
<ujjain> ah
<ujjain> what format I wonder
<lifeless> .po - gettect
<lifeless> gettext
<lifeless> you could start a thread on launchpad-users if you want to discuss this in detail
<lifeless> I have to run
<ujjain> Yes
<ujjain> thanks lots!!
<ujjain> I will do some googling and reading babout launchpad
<ujjain> thanks again for your time
#launchpad 2010-11-14
<Kangarooo> hello. in https://help.launchpad.net/BlueprintDocumentation theres link https://help.launchpad.net/GreatSpecifications Examples of good specifications and it doesnt opens.
<Kangarooo> ups.. in that 2nd liink theres 4th link https://launchpad.canonical.com/TranslationUploads and its not allowed to be seen..
<Kangarooo> Carlos Perello Marin's Rosetta Import Process spec thats not posible to view
<Kangarooo> and why i cant make blueprint about ubuntu package exo ?
<rigved> hi everyone
<rigved> has anyone checked the bug - UnknownTimeZoneError-Asia/Kolkata?
<ari-tczew> 503 Service Unavailable         No server is available to handle this request.
<ari-tczew> :(
<bulldog98> is an launchpad admin in here?
<bulldog98> because I wanted to ask how I can speed up PPA delation (I need to create an new PPA named that way)
<ikus060> Hello, I need some help of how to use launchpad to make a nightly build of a project that have it's source code in SVN
<ikus060> by nightly build, I mean debian package nightly build
<ikus060> Hello ?
<rigved> hi everyone
<rigved> will launchpad upgrade to the new moin version any time soon?
<Kerrick> How the do I hide my email address?
<wgrant> Kerrick: Down the bottom of https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+edit.
<Kerrick> OK, thank you. The interface is very counterintuitive; I'd expect the option to be on the same page where you add and remove e-mail addresses.
<wgrant> Kerrick: Bug #109500
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 109500 in Launchpad Registry ""Hide my e-mail addresses" should be on E-mail addresses page (affected: 0, heat: 0)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109500
<sinzui> Maybe I can fix that as a part of the bugjam...and move mailing list subscriptions to a separate form
<wgrant> The email address form is a bit special, IIRC.
<KombuchaKip> I'm having trouble checking out my bzr repo on Launchpad. I think I might be using the wrong checkout URL. This is the branch: https://code.launchpad.net/~kip/avaneya/trunk
<blueglasses> how do i configure the project branch in lauchpad? it says the word for my project is too small
<KombuchaKip> I am trying bzr checkout lp:avaneya to no avail.
<KombuchaKip> Keep getting bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/avaneya/"
<wgrant> KombuchaKip: There's nothing there to check out -- you need to push to the branch first.
<KombuchaKip> wgrant: So there is no empty repository even?
<wgrant> blueglasses: What exactly are you trying to do, and what's the error message that you're getting?
<wgrant> KombuchaKip: No.
<KombuchaKip> wgrant: I thought push was just for the decentralized model? Do you mean commit in my case for centralized model?
<blueglasses> let me think a bit
<blueglasses> ...
<wgrant> KombuchaKip: You need to push the first time, to get the branch onto the server.
<wgrant> So.
<wgrant> 'bzr init' in your code directory, to create the branch.
<wgrant> Then 'bzr push --use-existing-dir lp:avaneya' to push the branch up to LP.
<KombuchaKip> wgrant: Ok. I don't want to commit the stuff in there yet though. Can I push nothing?
<wgrant> Then 'bzr bind lp:avaneya' to automatically push future commits.
<wgrant> KombuchaKip: I think so.
<KombuchaKip> wgrant: Ok
<KombuchaKip> wgrant: Thanks! It worked.
<wgrant> KombuchaKip: Normally you wouldn't create the branch on LP first. You'd just push up to a new name.
<KombuchaKip> wgrant: Ah makes sense.
<KombuchaKip> wgrant: I'm finding the nautilus plugin pretty helpful.
<blueglasses> I'm trying to configure project branch
<wgrant> blueglasses: Which project? Do you want to host a new branch on Launchpad?
<blueglasses> the project name is already defined: story
<blueglasses> I also have files already there, just to test
<wgrant> In the 'testingbzr' branch?
<blueglasses> probably
<blueglasses> i'm still a noob on bzr
#launchpad 2011-11-07
<jrgifford> PPA downloads seem to be taking a long time - anyone else?
<lifeless> noone else has reported anything
 * timrc scans up
<lifeless> timrc: no need, someone else with the issue duplicated was around
<timrc> lifeless, aye, read the bug and scrollback anyway :)
<jrgifford> ok, must have been just me. :)
<EvilResistance> is it possible to make a bzr branch for myself to hold my packaging templates?
<EvilResistance> i.e. to hold the contents of a debian/ template folder which I *always* use (and update semi often)
<EvilResistance> if so, how can i create said branch?
<poolie> not sure what you mean
<EvilResistance> basically
<EvilResistance> can i create a bzr branch that only I have access to that isnt linked to any projects
<EvilResistance> if so, how?
<poolie> push it to lp:~/+junk/my-packaging-template
<poolie> StevenK, i like your +personal idea :)
<EvilResistance> can i have sub branches, say...
<EvilResistance> lp:~/+junk/packaging-templates/t#
<EvilResistance> (where # is 1 - 3)
<EvilResistance> oh wait nevermind
<EvilResistance> those would be subdirs, no?
<poolie> no, but you can call it template-3
<EvilResistance> ok
<poolie> or you could put it in lp:~evil/ubuntu/gnucash/packaging-template
<poolie> if it does apply to one particular package
<poolie> but it's just personally yours
<BertVoegele> how can I delete (or de-registrer) a branch?
<lifeless> click on the delete icon in the top right of its page
 * BertVoegele feels stupid for not seeing this
<BertVoegele> lifeless : thanks
<lifeless> no probs
<BertVoegele> On importing code from code.google.com into lp I get :"bzrlib.errors.NoSuchRevision: CHKInventoryRepository" - is this a general issue (like #878085) or just me using a wrong URL as source?
<poolie> BertVoegele, i imagine that is bug 878085
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 878085 in Launchpad itself "NoSuchRevision error during git import" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878085
<poolie> not a bad url
<BertVoegele> can the code be pushed manually and then linked with the original repo later?
<poolie> BertVoegele... kind of
<poolie> an automatic import can't be rebased on to your manual import or snapshot import
<poolie> but you could do the latter just for now
<poolie> i answered your bug comment
<BertVoegele> poolie: thanks for giving a time frame.
* bigjools changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: bigjools | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<mok0> I'm afraid I screwed up on the lp:/ubuntu/gizmod repo
<mok0> I need a bit of help
<bigjools> mok0: wassup?
<mok0> bigjools: I commited to the branch, and I am not sure it should be done like that
<mok0> bigjools: link https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/precise/gizmod/precise
<mok0> bigjools: I wanted to fix the package and upload to my ppa
<bigjools> mok0: if you are concerned it's the wrong thing then you can just commit a new revision that reverses your change
<mok0> bigjools: ok... but can you explain how it works? It seems the repo is filled automatically from the source package
<bigjools> yes, there's an importer daemon
<bigjools> it grabs new uploads and creates branch revisions
<mok0> bigjools: that's what I thought... can you tell me why there isn't any series file in debian/patch?
<bigjools> that's beyond my foo
<mok0> bigjools: heh
<mok0> bigjools: I'll revert it to r7 then
<bigjools> panic over!
<mok0> bigjools: I suppose I can just branch -r7 and push it
<bigjools> I would do a reverse merge
<mok0> bigjools: so bzr merge -r7 ?
<bigjools> removing revisions could be dangerous
<bigjools> bzr merge -r8..7
<mok0> bigjools: hm, never tried that before :-)
<bigjools> bzr is clever
<bigjools> someone actually wanted their LP project deleted as they preferred svn somewhere else....
<geser> mok0: some people use the packaging branches also as a staging area for fixes which should be uploaded but don't warrant an upload on itself
<mok0> geser: Ah, I see
<geser> so don't worry too much if the packaging branch doesn't match the package source
<mok0> geser: ... and once the package is uploaded, the daemon commits the final version?
<mok0> geser: I guess I was worried for no big reason
<geser> you can also mark (tag) the revision you uploaded (see the UDD documentation) and ideally the importer should notice that the branch and the uploaded package are identical (else it creates a MP for that branch)
<geser> mok0: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-uploading.html
 * mok0 looks
<aboudreault__> Hi
<aboudreault__> a new guy in my PPA team did a small mistake.. he uploaded a package in lucid.. but the package was for oneiric. If I delete the package (versionned 1.3.0).. will I be able to upload the old package to get things working again, which is version 1.2.5?
<bigjools> aboudreault__: IIRC that works
<aboudreault__> bigjools, ok, will rework the package and try to reupload.
<rotw> hi... excuse the stupid question, but can anyone else not get on launchpad?
<rotw> every "is it down or is it just me" service tells me it's just me, but i have no idea what would cause it...
<MTecknology> rotw: up from here
<rotw> shit
<rotw> *.ubuntu.com seems to be blocked
<rotw> i can get past it with a proxy...
<rotw> damn student halls internet >.>
<agent00tai> hi everyone, I got a problem with setting up tarmac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/731290/
<EvilResistance> is there a way to configure a branch for a project to mirror one-time another bzr branch?
<lifeless> EvilResistance: no, but you can do that yourself very easily. bzr push -d <otherbranch> lp:...
<EvilResistance> thanks.
<EvilResistance> another question.
<lifeless> (untested - if it doesn't work, branch it locally then push it up)
<EvilResistance> if the code for a project (i.e. the project itself's code) is on github...
<EvilResistance> can bzr/launchpad daily-mirror the code into the bzr branch?
<lifeless> yes, thats a code import
<lifeless> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Imports
#launchpad 2011-11-08
<fenix-migusta> hello
<fenix-migusta> olÃ¡
<fenix-migusta> hi??
<colon_D> how long does it usually take to delete a PPA from your account? i wanted to recreate mine from scratch and its been showing up grayed out for the last 5 hours :(
<EvilResistance> colon_D:  it seems it'll be greyed out forever :/
 * EvilResistance has 3 PPAs he flagged for deletion a year ago and they're still not poof'd
<colon_D> ahh...good to know, lol
<colon_D> I guess I'll try to recreate one with the same name..see what happens
<colon_D> Doh... "You already have a PPA named 'foobar'."
<wgrant> PPA deletion is mostly to allow people to rename their accounts. It doesn't currently let you create a new one with the same name.
<colon_D> any admins frequent this chan that could potentially re-enable, or purge?
<wgrant> Reenabling is not supported, but can sort of be done.
<wgrant> Add /+edit to the URL, check the Enabled and Publish flags.
<colon_D> ah, cool.  It's back.
<colon_D> I just hope that didn't mess anything up..kind of need this repo working and not poofing at random :/
<wgrant> Why did you delete it?
<colon_D> well I'm new to the whole PPA thing.  I published my initial commit with the wrong gpg key, and instead of trying to wipe that out, or recommit with the right key I figured I'd just wipe the whole project and start it up again properly so I had a clean slate.  Page said it would take an hour on average, wasn't in a time crunch so went ahead with it
<colon_D> Interesting thing is after doing your trick it seems my previously build package is now gone...so looks like a fresh ppa
<wgrant> The package is still recorded, just marked deleted.
<wgrant> Same as if you'd used the 'Delete packages' link.
<colon_D> yup, you're right. it's in there, can see it if I filter for 'Any status'
<EvilResistance> wgrant:  alive?
<wgrant> EvilResistance: No.
<EvilResistance> :P
<EvilResistance> or any other person with expert level launchpad-fu
<EvilResistance> in any case, my question is this
<EvilResistance> if i am trying to backport something within a ppa that i have called ppa:lpid/backports/...
<EvilResistance> and the required backported build-dep exists in the aforementioned backports ppa
<EvilResistance> will the builders recognize the build-dep version is *in* that ppa?
<EvilResistance> or do i have to specify it somehow?
<EvilResistance> (the ubuntu-motu people *think* it'll work without any other specifications, but i want to confirm)
<wgrant> If they're in the same PPA, or a PPA that is set as a dependency for that PPA, yes, they will be found automatically.
<EvilResistance> ah good
<EvilResistance> so less worrying for me :P
<EvilResistance> is there a way for me to copy the source package of swig2.0 for oneiric into my PPA?
* bigjools changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: jtv | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<mrevell> ello
<jtv> oi
<nigelb> Hello mrevell! Back in London?
<mrevell> Hey nigelb, back in the UK, yep :)
<nigelb> :)
<mrevell> Launchpad's Google+ page: https://plus.google.com/b/109129028036222996031/
<bigjools> the logo is wonky!
<mrevell> Hang on, I'll fix it
<lifeless> mrevell: well, thats *your* LP g+ page, right? [current implementation is they are single-owner :P]
<bigjools> heh
<mrevell> It's the one we've got right now, working within the confines of what they offer. We could go all Ayn Rand, I guess, and set up a bunch of competing Google+ pages for Launchpad.
<lifeless> mrevell: yeah baby!
<lifeless> mrevell: I don't know whether to admire, or shake head, at googles release process for G+
<mrevell> Heh :)
<mrevell> bigjools, Logo should be less wonky now.
<bigjools> \o/
<mrevell> With any luck they'll make it easy to promote pages to multiple ownership.
<mrevell> I'm not going to make a big deal about it just yet as I'm still kind of sceptical about how useful it'll be.
<lifeless> mrevell: do we have a g+ mirror of @launchpadstatus? That might be useful
<lifeless> mrevell: the facebook page is pretty uhm, static
<mrevell> lifeless, Now that's a good idea. identi.ca seems slower to respond every time I visit.
<lifeless> mrevell: its probably getting more popular :>
<mrevell> As for the Facebook page ... I'm handing all of this to Dan. I didn't want it to ape the status feed, as it felt like it should be something other than that ... Facebook being more fluffy, than anything.
<lifeless> yeah
<lifeless> I'm with you
<lifeless> I wonder if it mirroring the blog would be good
<lifeless> I think it does already ;)
<mrevell> Yeah, or the straight launchpad identi.ca/launchpad_net Twitter feed.
<lifeless> G+ status stream mirroring identi.ca, G+ vanity page mirroring blog, perhaps ?
<lifeless> I dunno, its all too fluffy for me :)
<mrevell> Heh :) Dan's back at work tomorrow, so I'll let him set out a social media strategy (every one of which I've read previously being, "Post to Twitter .... Profit!")
<mrevell> I have to admit, the term "social media" makes me shudder a little.
<lifeless> mrevell: its like social disease?
<mrevell> I think my objection to it comes from my impression that it is often used in place of any actual meaning. It's the current equivalent of "portal"; a word that does have a use and meaning but that was hijacked by bandwagon-jumpers in lieu of having any actual ideas. Also, so called social media experts seem to take themselves very seriously.
<lifeless> naturally; they are experts!
<mrevell> haha
<nigelb> mrevell: They are indeed experts at calling themselves experts :)
<mrevell> I don't deny that there is a skill-set that is useful in sparking, then maintaining, enthusiasm around a bunch of Twitter/Facebook stuff but there does seem to be a bit of a bubble in the esteem in which the holders of such skills are held. Anyway, I'm rapidly going off-topic here.
<nigelb> heh
* jtv changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: allenap | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
 * senden9 
<mardy> hi :-)
<allenap> mardy: Hello :)
<mardy> there are some error with importing my project from git:
<mardy> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/84700393/mardy-webcredentials-libaccounts-glib-trunk.log
<allenap> mardy: I've asked someone who's very familiar with this stuff to come and help.
<mardy> allenap: thanks
<allenap> mardy: jelmer isn't responding right now, but he'll probably be back later.
<mardy> allenap: np
<jelmer> hi allenap, mardy
<mardy> jelmer: hi!
<mardy> jelmer: I've some trouble importing my git project into lp:
<mardy> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/84700393/mardy-webcredentials-libaccounts-glib-trunk.log
<jelmer> what's the code import?
<mardy> jelmer: https://code.google.com/p/accounts-sso.libaccounts-glib/
<jelmer> mardy: one sec
<jelmer> mardy: hi
<jelmer> mardy: I've managed to reproduce it locally, but I can't see immediately what's going wrong
<mardy> jelmer: hi. Cool!
<allenap> bigjools: Fwiw, wrt https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/177795, there's a HOWTO at https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/BugImportHowto.
<mardy> jelmer: any success?
<jelmer> mardy: Still looking, but I think I'll have to give up for now and file a bug about this.
<jussi> hrm. I think I just found a tiny bug, but Im not certain of what the propper solution is.
<jussi> Anyway. I am a member of a team which has someone in it that was a member a while back, ceased to be a member, then came back as a member. LP notes they have been a member since way back when - I *think* it should note they have been a member since only when they rejoined.
<jhobbs> should be a setting per group!
<beuno> I would expect the opposite (the current behavior)
<beuno> especially for accidental expires
<Renegade15> the curious question is: Why does it save the previous affiliation in the first place?
<Renegade15> Is there a "past memberships" or "previous members" page somewhere?
<beuno> I don't think there is on a per-person level
<jussi> Renegade15: yes, there is
<Renegade15> ah, that explains it
<jussi> beuno: hrm, I guess its different use case things here. for say, ubuntu members - that kinda makes sense. for say, the community council, it makes none.
<jussi> I thin k the correct behaviour should be to both list them as past and present members
<beuno> I think the answer here is that it needs to be a historic thing
<jussi> beuno: what do you mean by that?
<beuno> jussi, "Member for 1 year 2 months, first joined on X date"
<beuno> maybe
<jussi> hrm. I still prefer listing in both sections - which is the same thing, but presented in a different way, no?
<Renegade15> is that listing different from the current semantics?
<jussi> Renegade15: hrm?
<Renegade15> i.e. would that be 1 year 2 months since X, or since the most recent join?
<jussi> Renegade15: for beuno's idea? neither. total time they were actually a member
<beuno> yes, I'd cheat  :)
<Renegade15> I'll bet money you'd get bug reports for that
<jussi> hehe
<Renegade15> because people would calculate from X to now, see it wouldn't match up with the sum, and complain
<Renegade15> how about a listing "Member from 01.07.2007 - 04.03.2009, 11.10.10-now"?
<jussi> You understood my proposal? listed in the previous members for the time they were a member previously, and the reason they were removed (deactivated, expired - same as is listed now). then they would also be in the current member section.
<jussi> that tells the whole story in a clear way imho
<Renegade15> jussi: That would make sense, but might also lead to bug reports re: double listing
<Renegade15> end users can be difficult like that >_>
<Renegade15> "CommanderFoo has rejoined the team, why is he still listed as historic?! He's current!"
<jussi> hehe. but still, in any change you are going to have some sort of confusion
<Renegade15> not trying to be difficult, just playing the devil's advocate
<jussi> what we want is clear, but accurate.
<Renegade15> how is the data saved at the moment?
<Renegade15> join date + active member boolean?
<jussi> Renegade15: no idea.
 * jussi hasnt looked that deep into it
<Renegade15> well, the convertibility of historic data would be an issue, too
<jussi> yeah, this is true.
<Renegade15> if the leave dates are missing (which could cause the current behavior), you can't magically add those afterwards
<jussi> yes. I would be suprised if they were deleted though - they have been used before elsewhere.
<jussi> so they probably dont get magically deleted from the db
<jussi> ie. the person has been in the previous members list before.
<Renegade15> maybe the most productive thing to do would be logging a change request in the tracker ^^
<Renegade15> to get more points of view
<jussi> Renegade15: likely. I will think on it a little more first. But yes, i do plan to report a bug.
<Renegade15> or just do a ninja-edit on the code and blame someone else <_<
<jussi> thankfully I have no coding ability and even less access to LP code :)
<Renegade15> do you have a general grasp of LaunchPad's functionality?
<jussi> Renegade15: I use it on a daily basis, so Id hope so.
<Renegade15> okay, question: Is there a way to delete blueprints, and I'm just too blind to find it, or are they immortal objects?
<jussi> Renegade15: not that I know of
<Renegade15> hmm...I was afraid of that. Oh well, at least I didn't miss the obvious. ^^
<jussi> can mark it a superseded though
<Renegade15> any general gotchas you would want to warn people about?
<jussi> dont join too many projects at once? :D
<Renegade15> heh
<Renegade15> any in terms of technical usage?
<jussi> nothing. its pretty self explanatory
<marw> hello. i already have an ssh key i use on gitorious. is is better to create a new one, or use this one on launchpad?
#launchpad 2011-11-09
<mardy> jelmer: hi, about that git import, should I file a bug?
<mrevell> Morning
<jelmer> is there anything I can do about some of these broken build requests scheduled to run on 26 October? They're still pending, and preventing any other builds of the recipes in question.
<geser> I guess only ping a LP admin to kill them
<bigjools> jelmer: I can cancel them, give me URLs
<jelmer> bigjools: that'd be great - I've listed the URLs in pastebin here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/733035/
* allenap changed the topic of #launchpad to:  https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<allenap> jelmer: Can I borrow you to discuss a stacking problem?
<allenap> jelmer: It doesn't seem possible to bzr push --stacked-on lp:project/series unless you manually expand it to bzr push --stacked-on bzr+ssh://.../~owner/project/series
<jelmer> allenap: bug 296592 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 296592 in Bazaar "--stacked-on option doesn't resolve lp: urls" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/296592
<allenap> jelmer: That'll be the one. Thank you :)
<bigjools> jelmer: all done
<jelmer> bigjools: thanks!
<allenap> jelmer: Actually, what happens is that the branch pushes fine, but then the page in Launchpad says "Invalid stacked on location: lp:project/series"
<allenap> jelmer: https://code.launchpad.net/~dle-credativ/openobject-addons/test-6.0 for example.
<jelmer> allenap: can you clone the branch ok afterwards?
<allenap> jelmer: I was able to branch it fine, but I did it into a repo that already had revisions from the stacked on branch. I can try outside now.
<allenap> s/repo/shared repo/
<jelmer> allenap: translating lp: URLs requires an extra step in bzr, so it might just be that bzr is doing that when it's interpreting the stacked-on location but the scanner is not
<allenap> jelmer: Ah, okay. It seems to be branching fine (it's a ~500MB branch so there's rather a long wait to see if it completes...), so that sounds reasonable. Shall I file a bug or would you prefer to?
<jelmer> allenap: it looks like we're doing a lookup in BranchSet of the location, so it seems like that's not interpreting lp:openobject-addons/6.0
<jelmer> yeah, we're relying on getByUniqueName() to work. Perhaps we should also be checking getByUrl
<jelmer> allenap: either works for me
<jelmer> mardy: hi
<jelmer> mardy: I'm going to file a bug about the issue you ran into
<allenap> jelmer: Can you file it? You have a better context, and can probably judge its importance better than I can. And my wife is nagging me to go and have lunch.
<mardy> jelmer: thanks! please ping me with the bug number once it's done, so I'll subscribe to it
<jelmer> allenap: sure
<allenap> Thanks.
<jelmer> allenap: actually, I wonder if this is a dupe of bug 660358
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 660358 in Launchpad itself "Bad interaction between bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/+branch/... URLs and branch stacking" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660358
<allenap> jelmer: Yes, sounds like it. Thanks for doing that.
 * czajkowski hugs sinzui 
<sinzui> :)
<czajkowski> thank you
<askhl> I have a PPA with a package for Maverick, Natty and Oneiric.  I fixed a bug in the maverick package and dputted it successfully.  How do I release the same package to natty and oneiric?
<geser> does it need a rebuild?
<askhl> I tried changing 'maverick' to 'natty' and re-running debuild.  And the changes-file says it's natty now.  But dput says 'Package has already been uploaded to askhl on ppa.launchpad.net'
<maxb> Tweak the changelog to specify a different verion and upload target, then reupload
<askhl> geser, not really, but I wanted a changes-file which had the correct series info (natty)
<maxb> (Note that you need to change the version too)
<askhl> Thanks, I hadn't changed the version
<geser> askhl: how you did do it the first time? just repeat what you did for the first version
<maxb> You should ensure that the version increases from older to newer distroseries
<maxb> This will ensure that upgrades work sensibly
<askhl> geser, the first time I uploaded for maverick, then used 'copy package' (rebuilding binaries in case there were any dependency changes I needed to fix).  This seemed to work.  But for the update, I tried to copy packages and it gave an error.  Hmm, which one was it...
<askhl> It said there were already existing binaries for that package.
<askhl> (even though the package version number had been ramped up)
<maxb> uhm
<maxb> You cannot "Copy packages" between series in a single PPA, and rebuild the binaries
<askhl> Evidently not...
<askhl> Is there a good reason for this?
<maxb> Yes - without changing the version, there's nothing to identify the separate builds
<askhl> At that time I had name_version~ppa2 for maverick and  ...~ppa1 for natty/oneiric.  And I tried to copy the ppa2 to the two newer series
<geser> having different packages with different dependencies for different release doesn't make apt really happy and it doesn't help you while debugging a bug
<maxb> You can do that if you do not rebuild the binaries
<geser> askhl: what is your PPA url?
<maxb> You cannot rebuild the binaries because then you would have multiple .deb files with the exact same filename
<askhl> https://launchpad.net/~askhl/+archive/ppa
<askhl> The debfilename includes ~ppa2, however.  So I don't understand that there should be a naming conflict
<geser> askhl: make sure you copy the binaries too (not only the source)
<askhl> geser, regarding the dependencies: Between two ubuntu versions a number of MPI/BLAS dependencies changed radically (packages were added/removed/renamed), and I *had* to change the dependencies
<askhl> So now I'm explicitly asking it to rebuild for each new series
<askhl> Not sure which two versions it was.  But it broke the gpaw package at least
<maxb> The conflict is between ~ppa2 (maverick-built), ~ppa2 (natty-built) and ~ppa2 (oneiric-built)
<geser> then you need to upload different version (e.g. ~ppa2~maverick, ~ppa2~natty, ~ppa2~oneiric) to get then rebuild for each release
<askhl> Ah, okay
<askhl> How do "normal people" deal with the possibility of dependencies changing?
<askhl> I mean the whole package repository is subject to this, and presumably it isn't a big problem
<askhl> If I simply copied, *keeping* the binaries, would that be considered perfectly all right?
<askhl> Sorry for all these questions, but perhaps I can avoid coming back asking more if I figure these things out :)
<maxb> For packages that do not contain any binary code, it is often sufficient
<maxb> Binary code tends to have awkward things like ABIs and such, that may differ from release to release
<askhl> okay, so for the ASE package it is sufficient.  But GPAW is quite complicated so that one I will explicitly rebuild
<maxb> Of course, binary code isn't the only issue - paths on disk might change from release to release
<maxb> e.g. a package which just existed to do something with a CUPS printer driver might need to refer to the driver with a different ID string in different releases
<geser> other PPA user have the same problem, the main archive is not really affected as the devs only upload to the current development version
<maxb> Or, in the case of SRUs, backports, etc., the package is individually prepared for a specific release anyway
<askhl> But do I really need to ramp up to ~ppa3 or write ~ppa2~natty?  I can see that other complicated packages (python-numpy) do apparently not need something like that.  Although they come from debian, not ppa
<maxb> In the case of the ~bzr PPA, for example, we have a separate packaging branch for each Ubuntu release, for packages for which differences are required in various releases
<maxb> ~ppa2~natty is fine, but make sure you understand what the ~ means
<maxb> For example, if you currently have ~ppa2 in maverick, ~ppa2~natty would be wrong
<maxb> I find people overuse ~ a lot in PPAs for some reason
<askhl> Embarrassingly, a lot of this information is actually on https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Uploading .  But I think some of it has been changed after I read it the first time.
<askhl> I think I can figure it out from here.  Thank you very much for the help, maxb and geser
<maxb> IRC is here for a reason, and Debian versioning is tricky until you're familiar with it :-)
<askhl> So if I ramp up to ~ppa3~maverick and ~ppa3~natty etc., then it should work.  Right?
<zyga> hi
<zyga> https://code.launchpad.net/lava-deplyoment-tool
<zyga> could someone rename this project
<zyga> I just made a typo there :P
<zyga> deployment
<deryck> rick_h, hi! :)
<rick_h> deryck: party!
<Wardje> I know karma decays over time, but is there a log somewhere of all things you've done on Launchpad over time?
<bigjools> Wardje: https://launchpad.net/~/+karma is the closest thing
<Wardje> I feared as much, thanks anyway
<Kre10s> hello.
<Renegade15> hello
<Kre10s> I have made a package, and uploaded it to my ppa repository... however when the package is installed, the executable is not copied into /usr/local/bin/...
<Renegade15> well, I've never dealt with LP's PPA system, but if the package is installed, that sounds like the PPA is working just fine
<jelmer> Kre10s: that's really more of a packaging question, #ubuntu-packaging is probably a better place to ask
<Kre10s> I have a install target in my makefile. what else do i have to do to get the compiled binary installed?
<Renegade15> iow, your package is the issue
<gustonegro> hey, how can I send a message or request to a group in launchpad?
<EvilResistance> gustonegro:  define "Request" or "message"
<EvilResistance> gustonegro:  if the group has an email address email it.
<gustonegro> specifically, I want to ask the maintainers of the libpeas package for ubuntu why they don't include a JS loader (seed or gjs)
<gustonegro> EvilResistance: oh, okay
<EvilResistance> one sec
<EvilResistance> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpeas
<EvilResistance> that's the source package, you could try there
<EvilResistance> or here https://launchpad.net/libpeas
<gustonegro> I'd like to make  a feature request, I guess.  Or maybe its abug in their  build
<gustonegro> oh, how did you find that?
 * EvilResistance searched launchpad for 'libpeas' :po
<EvilResistance> :P *
<EvilResistance> youi'd have to file a question to the source  package
<EvilResistance> or send it to the Gnome Project
<EvilResistance> since the package's project is a part of the Gnome Project
<gustonegro> I searched lp for libpeas too...but wasn't given anything where I could send a message - "ask a question"
<EvilResistance> https://launchpad.net/gnome  <-- "Ask a Question"
<EvilResistance> since libpeas' project is part of the gnome project :p
<gustonegro> when I go here, however, there is not "ask a question" https://launchpad.net/libpeas
<gustonegro> it's all blanked out
<EvilResistance> you dont read do you
<EvilResistance> <EvilResistance> youi'd have to file a question to the source  package
<EvilResistance> <EvilResistance> or send it to the Gnome Project
<EvilResistance> <EvilResistance> since the package's project is a part of the Gnome Project
<EvilResistance> and
<EvilResistance> <EvilResistance> https://launchpad.net/gnome  <-- "Ask a Question"
<EvilResistance> <EvilResistance> since libpeas' project is part of the gnome project :p
<EvilResistance> oop, i'm hungry...
<EvilResistance> mustbe dinner time
<gustonegro> yes, I read that.  thank you for your patience too.  I'm only aksing how am I suppse to know that ahead of time as a user of the website
 * EvilResistance walks off to get dinner
<EvilResistance> gustonegro:  you sometimes need to be able to do some digging
<EvilResistance> here's an idea.
<EvilResistance> "If a project has nothing configured for asking questions, btu the project page shows "Part of <other project>", then post to that other project.
<EvilResistance> Otherwise, contact the maintainer if they accept emails
<EvilResistance> Otherwise, file a bug against the source package itself.
<EvilResistance> at least that's my advice to ya
 * EvilResistance really must eat now
<gustonegro> Thanks for you help EvilResistance.  Sorry if I am testing your patience.  I only find the lp way confusing.  Not sure why though, its all there.  I just can't ever seem to find what I am looking for.
#launchpad 2011-11-10
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad will be offline from 08.30-08.45 UTC | https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<mrevell> Morning
<rvba> Morning adeuring.
<rvba> Hi Monsieur mrevell.
<adeuring> hi rvba
<artnay> could someone help me with OOPS-dbc16cbf53e41be4e2ce08ed4efecbb6
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=dbc16cbf53e41be4e2ce08ed4efecbb6
<wgrant> artnay: It appears that one of the Ubuntu translations admins has disabled that template.
<wgrant> artnay: So it's no longer accessible except to the admins.
<artnay> wgrant: yes, figured that out with dpm. thanks anyway. the package has been moved into its own project (separate from ubuntu)
<dpm> artnay, it hasn't been moved, the project was always there, it's just that upstream translations have been enabled and downstream translations (the Ubuntu package) disabled. We should enable the downstream translations again and use message sharing. Let me sort this out later on
<wgrant> Sharing does seem to be already enabled.
* rvba changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: rvba | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<caribou> Hello, I Have  a question regarding PPA upload & build
<caribou> I need to make a backport of ghostscript from Oneiric to Lucid available & would like to use PPA for that
<caribou> unfortunately, the Oneric version depends on a library that is not on lucid so the build fails
<caribou> I tried to create a second PPA with the library and make the first PPA depend on the second,but I cannot choose the second PPA when trying to build the dependancy
<wgrant> caribou: Why create a second PPA, rather than uploading the library to the first one?
<caribou> wgrant: because this is something I read in help.launchpad.net :)
<wgrant> caribou: Do you have a link?
<caribou> wgrant: hold on, let me fetch it for  you...
<wgrant> You *can* create dependencies between PPAs, but PPAs implicitly depend on themselves so it's usually not necessary.
<caribou> wgrant: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage under "Depending on other PPAs"
<wgrant> That saDependencies
<wgrant> Launchpad satisfies your package's Build-Depends using:
<wgrant> the most recent versions of the packages in the PPA you're uploading to
<caribou> wgrant: I tried that too,but I just realized that I did not change the series keyword in the library.
<caribou> wgrant: so I'll try it again with the proper setup & let you know if I get it working
<wgrant> caribou: Is either PPA private? That can influence the permitted interdependencies.
<wgrant> But the self-dependency is always present.
<caribou> no they were both publid
<caribou> oups public
 * caribou thinks that the library's series keyword might be the reason
<jussi> jml: ping - please PM me when youve a min.
<jrib> hi, I created a new branch at https://code.launchpad.net/~jrib/+junk/pianobar-tls How do I change its type to mirrored?  I'd like to mirror some code on github
<caribou> wgrant: I can't test any further as I'm tripping on other Natty's dependencies
<caribou> wgrant: is there a way to satisfy newer dependencies when backporting code to older revisions ?
<geser> backport the dependencies too
<geser> (or lower the versioned build-depencies if possible)
<jrib> are the steps at https://help.launchpad.net/Code/MirroredBranches, for mirroring branches, no longer accurate?
<caribou> geser: too many of them
<jrib> does launchpad still support mirroring code hosted outside of launchpad?
<rvba> jrib: launchpad supports mirroring.
<rvba> jrib: do you have a problem with a branch/project?
<jrib> rvba: I created a new branch at https://code.launchpad.net/~jrib/+junk/pianobar-tls How do I change its type to mirrored?  I'd like to mirror some code on github but I see no where to change the "type" of my branch
<rvba> jrib: Let me have a look.
<jrib> rvba: thanks
<jrib> rvba: I've clicked every pixel on my screen now :)
<rvba> jrib: yeah, I can't find how it's done.  I'll ask around, hang on.
<rvba> jrib: okay, so you're right, the documentation is outdated. I'm trying to get to the bottom of this but clearly, your best bet is to create a project on lp (you probably want to name it the same way it's named on github).  Then you'll have an "import a branch" button on the project home page.
<jrib> rvba: ah ok, thank you
<rvba> jrib: then you can branch from there and have a copy in /~me/+junk if you want to.
<rvba> jrib: welcome.
<Quintasan> jelmer: Can LP import git branches with git submodules?
<jelmer> Quintasan: not yet - see bug 402814
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 402814 in Launchpad itself "Importing revisions with submodules is not supported" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/402814
<jelmer> Quintasan: that bug actually just requires bzr changes
<Quintasan> jelmer: I see, any ETA on that? telepathy-kde dailies kinda died due to lack of this
<jelmer> Quintasan: it's on our mid-term todo list
<nigelb> Can someone mark this as hidden please? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/417978/comments/7
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 417978 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Unable to select output device when multiple audio cards are installed" [Low,Invalid]
<nigelb> (Spam in comment)
<Quintasan> jelmer: I see, thanks.
<jelmer> nigelb: done
<nigelb> jelmer: Thanks!
<czajkowski> sinzui: mrevell so I'm trying to following the thread but only seeing sinzui comments, I did suscribe to the lp dev ml
<czajkowski> sinzui: are you cc'ing me or is mail really dealyed?
<sinzui> czajkowski, I am only sending to the list, though my nemesis thunderbird does not think I like to send to lists
<czajkowski> ok, but am missing who ever is replying to you and only seeing your comments
<czajkowski> wondering if there is an issue me joining that dev ml
<sinzui> czajkowski, :( poolie and mrevell both sent replies to my first message. I replied to the parts where they had questions or concern. The parts I omitted were agreement with what I typed.
<czajkowski> ahh ok
<czajkowski> maybe the mails were sent before I joined yesterday so
<mrevell> czajkowski, Let me dig out an archive URL for you
<czajkowski> I'll reply tonight linking to the bug
<mrevell> czajkowski, https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg08288.html
<czajkowski> mrevell: you rock thanks
<mrevell> np :)
<czajkowski> need to write one more story before I head
<czajkowski> so will read tonight
<czajkowski> thanks
* rvba changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Help contact: - | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<icedwater> Hello! Looking for advice on starting a translation team for Singapore English.
<J___> automatic imports from Mercurial to a Bazaar branch seem to be failing
<J___> with a RevisionNotPresent error
<J___> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/84865025/j49137-zb-fetcher-main.log
<J___> it happens when I make a change to makefile
<J___> then it's fine if I delete the branch and re-import from scrath
<J___> *scratch
<jelmer> J___: that's a bug in the importer I fear
<jelmer> J___: The hg imports are still beta, and we have a change in progress to actually mark them as such.
<J___> what would be the best option, then, to get it to migrate to Bazaar once then just use Bazaar for future commits?
<J___> no way to keep using Mercurial without waiting for the importer to become stable?
<J___> and would it help to report this bug?
<J___> mm, okay, I'll work something out
<J___> thanks
#launchpad 2011-11-11
<psusi> Can someone fix the auto importer for btrfs-tools?  it shut down when kernel.org got hacked... it's back, but now it is just btrfs-progs.git, not btrfs-progs-unstable.git
<wgrant> psusi: It's the same repo, just renamed?
<psusi> wgrant, I'm not really sure... I just know that it is the only btrfs-progs repo Chris Mason has put back up on kernel.org and he announced it was back online on the mailing list a few days ago.. I'm guessing before there were separate stable/unstable repos but there don't seem to be now... that one is the one having active development
<wgrant> Let's see what happens...
<maxb> looks to be a continuation, and someone's already updated LP
<wgrant> I just did.
<mrevell> B'jour
<rvba> G'day mrevell.
<mrevell> I suppose "S'lut" wouldn't be appropriate.
<rvba> humâ¦ I guess it would be okâ¦ you can add that to your arsenal.
<danhg> lol
<danhg> Morning all
<rvba> mrevell: another one: bi'jour. That one will make you sound like a pied noir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied-Noir)
<mrevell> rvba, Ah, cool :) I learnt a bit of Picard when I visited Amiens a couple of times, but all forgotten now.
<rvba> hehe
<mrevell> The only Picard in my heart, nowadays, in Jean-Luc.
<mrevell> morning danhg
<danhg> Make it so
<rvba> In Jean-Luc we trust.
<danhg> I prefer Janeway to be honest
<mrevell> ugh
<mrevell> Of all the captains to pick.
<danhg> Apart from young/youngish Kirk of course
<jamespage> hello - I keep getting an OPPS for the following bug tag search - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=java7-ftbfs
<jamespage> OOPS-e4377eeb5cd43fc83e63512079494745
<ubot5> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=e4377eeb5cd43fc83e63512079494745
<jamespage> it does return occasionally - any help appreciated as it tracks build failures related to Java 7
<jamespage> cheer
<jamespage> s
<Sweetshark> any hints why https://bugs.launchpad.net/df-libreoffice/+bug/868229 does not remote update?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 868229 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "CheckBookmarks fails with NoSuchElementException on names __UnoMark__1910_1361181355" [Medium,Confirmed]
<mardy> jelmer: about that import issue, did you create a bug? If you didn't and are busy, I could do it
<jelmer> mardy: bug 878085
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 878085 in Launchpad itself "NoSuchRevision error during git import" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878085
<mardy> jelmer: thanks!
<jelmer> mardy: I didn't file a new bug, but that seems to be the same issue
<ikt> Is there any way to get a list of recent bugs that have been touched by you via the api?
<ikt> for a specific time frame*
<hlamer> hi. I want to add dependency for my ppa. What should I enter to "Add PPA dependency" field?
<maxb> username/ppaname
<mrevell> hey allenap, how does danhg mimic right-click in Ubuntu on his mac? ANy ideas?
<allenap> gmb: ^
<deryck> mrevell, is he in a vm?  does two finger click not work?
<mrevell> deryck, no, bare metal
<deryck> sorry, if I'm nosing in here :)
<mrevell> please do, danhg needs help :)
<deryck> danhg, does two finger click not work?
<gmb> I have no idea, sorry.
<danhg> matsubara
<dobey> how long does it take for the mailing list subscription prefs to change on LP? i changed which address one of them goes to, but just got mail to the address it was formerly set to
<allenap> dobey: There are mailing list issues at the moment. I guess we can add that to the symptoms.
<allenap> mrevell: ^
<mrevell> thanks allenap!
<mrevell> and sorry fort he delay dobey
<dobey> ah ok
<gustonegro> hi, I'm trying to submit a source package (with dput) to launchpad for both natty and oneiric
<gustonegro> I can submit the first natty package...
<gustonegro> but when I try to submit the oneiric one, it tells me that orig.tar.gz is different and can't accept it
<gustonegro> so, I then use the previous orig.tar.gz file (with a few patches) and try to submit that
<gustonegro> this time lp tells me that the source code wasn't submitted.
<gustonegro> do I need to tell dput to explicitly upload teh source?
<gustonegro> oh, nevermind.  it was a build error.  sorry for the noise.
<gustonegro> what does it mean to "register a branch" on a project?
<Renegade15> you tell it a location of code
<Renegade15> and/or the metadata of said code
<Renegade15> i.e. in which state said code is (experimental, testing, stable)
<gustonegro> I'm just trying to make the initial import onto a launchpad project that I registerd.
<gustonegro> bzr push says:  you have a valid .bzr control directory, but not a branch or repository. This is an unsupported configuration.
<jelmer> gustonegro: "register a branch" is probably not what you're looking for
<jelmer> gustonegro: we're actually going to remove that link
<gustonegro> yeah, I'm tryin to figger out what I'm looking for
<jelmer> gustonegro: you probably just want to use "bzr push lp:~yourname/yourproject/branchname"
<jelmer> where branchname can be anything you've made up
<jelmer> e.g. "trunk"
<gustonegro> jelmer: that works...but I wanted to put it in the project, not under my name
<jelmer> gustonegro: every branch has an owner - that can either be a person or a team (such as yourproject-dev)
<gustonegro> oh ...so that means I need to first make a bzr repo under my name and use that in the project repo somehow?
<jelmer> gustonegro: if you create a team you can use lp:~teamname/yourproject/branchname
<gustonegro> so I cannot ever use "bzr push lp:myproject"  I always have to use "bzr push lp:~teamOrMyname/yourproject/branchname"  ?
<gustonegro> are there docs on how to use the lp service?  I can't seem to wrap my head around all the variations
<jelmer> gustonegro: lp:myproject is a shorthand for whatever branch you have designated as your main development branch
<gustonegro> oh.
<gustonegro> so if I push to lp:~yourname/yourproject/branchname, I can tell others to branch off of lp:yourproject  ?
<jelmer> gustonegro: yes - you just need to specify in the launchpad web UI that lp:~yourname/yourproject/branchname is your main branch
<gustonegro> oh
<gustonegro> how do I do that?
<gustonegro> "Link to a Bazaar branch already on Launchpad" ?
<jelmer> gustonegro: once you've pushed the branch, use "Set development focus"
 * jelmer EODs
<gustonegro> hmm. where is that? under my page or my project page? under the project page "Development focus:" I see a pull down list with only one option "myproject trunk"
<gustonegro> what is the "branches tab" in this doc? https://help.launchpad.net/Code/QuickStart
<gustonegro> is that the "code" link at the top of a project page?
<jml> gustonegro: yes. it's an out-of-date document
<gustonegro> jml: ah thanks.  I'm getting confused with branches, series  and trunk, mainline
<jml> np
<colon_D> how can I delete old packages in my PPA?
<Resistance> colon_D:  you click "Delete packages" in the PPA, then select the packages.
<Resistance> colon_D:  but if you uploaded a newer version of the package, it supercedes the older version
<Resistance> colon_D:  so  then there's no need to erase older version
<colon_D> Resistance: sorry, got comcasted there...  i'm not seeing a Delete packages button anywhere though.  but I guess if it's auto purging my superseded releases then that's ok
<Resistance> colon_D:  for instance
<Resistance> if you release pkg1.0
<Resistance> and then later release pkg1.1
<Resistance> the 1.1 package, if its a higher version, supercedes pkg1.0 and pkg1.0 goes into old information
<Resistance> but its files still exist
<Resistance> but you have no need to erase the older version because the newer one has the higher version.
<colon_D> makes sense... so i can't actually purge pkg1.0?
<Resistance> colon_D:  not without deleting pkg1.1.
<Resistance> because only the latest versions for each distro (i.e. natty, oneiric, etc.) are the initially visible ones
<Resistance> you dont need to remove the older versions, due to the supercedence caused by the newer versions
#launchpad 2011-11-12
<cjohnston> greetings.. on https://translations.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/trunk the page says: Translation files that are waiting to be imported are shown in the import queue.  if you click the import queue, you get https://translations.launchpad.net/loco-team-portal/trunk/+imports .. this page says the template is imported.. im a little confused.. is it in the queue or is it imported?
<wgrant> cjohnston: The statements are not contradictory. If a translation file is waiting to be imported, it is shown in the import queue. There are none waiting to be imported now.
<cjohnston> isnt that second page the import queue?
<cjohnston> so since the second page says imported, its good to go correct?
<wgrant> Right.
<wgrant> The second page is the import queue.
<wgrant> But it also shows history. It is the case that everything waiting to be imported is shown in the queue, but not the case that everything in the queue is waiting to be imported.
<cjohnston> gotcha
<cjohnston> ty
<vibhav> Will my karma increase if I translate using poedit?
<andy753421> how long does it typically take a "Dependency wait" to sort itself out?
<andy753421> (after all the dependencies have been build, that is)
<wgrant> andy753421: It should automatically retry within an hour, or you can click the "Retry build" button to do it now.
<andy753421> ah, i wasn't logged in and didn't see the retry button :) thanks
<hlamer> Hi. I am having problems with dput -ting to PPA...
<hlamer> dsc and .debian.tar.gz uploaded. But on changes I have
<hlamer>   Uploading mksv3_0.1.1-ppa0_source.changes: 1k/2k
<hlamer> And freeze after it
<hlamer> Same problem for few atempts
<Yoshimo> i wanted to comment on a bugreport, after i hit send, i get this weird error: http://pastie.org/private/asauhxsydltq8bxef5s2ca
<wgrant> Yoshimo: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/1024
<wgrant> hlamer: You've signed the package with a key that's not associated with your Launchpad account.
<hlamer> hmm, yes, thanks
<wgrant> hlamer: It uploaded OK despite the hang, but was rejected due to the bad key. Not sure why you're seeing a hang, though.
<hlamer> Maybe lauchpad should provide more sensible notification
<wgrant> It normally does... seems to be hanging in your case instead, though :/
<hlamer> just hunging
<hlamer> xubuntu 11.10
<hlamer> thanks, wgrant
<ikt> heya, does anyone know how best to get access to the recently touched bugs via the launchpad api?
<ikt> for a specific time
<tumbleweed> ikt: searchTasks has a modified_since field
<ikt> tumbleweed: ah nice
#launchpad 2011-11-13
<asac> hello .... lots of i386 ppa builders disabled :/ anyone can take a look? https://launchpad.net/builders
<Kiall> lifeless: remember that PPA upload GPG error? Its back
#launchpad 2012-11-05
<yofel> let's hope someone will look at it when they get to work tomorrow (before the disk space runs out... ^^)
<StevenK> Yes, process-death-row on the PPA machine is disabled due to an issue.
<jonrafkind> any eta?
<jonrafkind> my nightly builds have been failing for 2 days now due to this
<yofel> StevenK: ah ok, thanks for the confirmation
 * andol notes that https://launchpad.net/~username still causes "Timeout error" if you are logged in....
<StevenK> andol: The bug is marked in progress
<andol> StevenK: Mostly out of curiosity, bug number?
<StevenK> andol: bug 1074239
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1074239 in Launchpad itself "Timeout error when trying to view any user profile page." [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1074239
<andol> StevenK: thanks
<ANub> Hello...........guys i need info about how to upload crash-report on launchpad bugs...?
<ANub> Ive followed "apport-collect" method, but not sure if thats what I want
<ANub> Crash report is of ~35 MB and relates to Skype
<ANub> bum
<staticfloat> Hey guys, I'm having trouble with my PPA.  I'm trying to upload a new version of libarpack2, but I keep on getting a rejected email saying that my arpack-3.1.2.orig.tar.gz already exists....... but if I build the _source.changes file without the original .tar.gz, it rejects me for not having the .orig.tar.gz file included!
<staticfloat> I've tried lots of things, like bumping my deb version number (e.g. arpack-3.1.2ubuntu1, all the way up to ubuntu3, etc....) but it doesn't help
<bkerensa> ERROR: Revision {package-import@ubuntu.com-20120711113620-v800iu2gzawm21xx} not present in "Graph(StackedParentsProvider(bzrlib.repository._LazyListJoin(([CachingParentsProvider(None)], [])))
<bkerensa> means?
<chrisccoulson> hi, i had 3 PPA's all run out of space last week (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/ , https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/thunderbird-aurora , https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/firefox-aurora)
<chrisccoulson> that's pretty odd, as there should be plenty of space in them all
<chrisccoulson> are the old builds not being cleaned up fast enough? http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mozilla-daily/thunderbird-aurora/ubuntu/pool/main/t/thunderbird/
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: aye
<czajkowski> we have a bug on that atm
<chrisccoulson> czajkowski, do you have an ETA for when that will be fixed? :)
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1071562
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1071562 in Launchpad itself "UEFI signing failures cause binaries to be republished continuously" [Critical,Triaged]
<chrisccoulson> czajkowski, thanks
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: np
<chrisccoulson> thanks
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Known Issues: PPAs currently running out of space: Bug 1071562. Help contact:czajkowski| Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Known Issues: PPAs currently running out of space: Bug 1071562. Help contact:-| Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<gmarkall> I'd like to build a package that will go into a PPA. I notice there's already a package in Ubuntu that's copied from Debian, but it's too old and requires some patches. From what I can tell, the right thing to do would be to register the project in Launchpad, set it up so it imports the code into a bzr branch, and then I can add a recipe to build the package for a PPA. Would someone be able to advise me if this is the right way to go about it ple
<gmarkall> I'm a little hesitant because I feel like registering a project that I don't really work on (outside of building a package for it on Launchpad) seems wrong/aggressive
<geser> gmarkall: you can upload a ready source package to your PPA and don't need to have a bzr + recipe to generate one (it's mostly for those interested which also use LP for code hosting and want and automatic build from it)
<gmarkall> geser: that sounds perfect for my situation, thankyou!
<gmarkall> i'm annoyed with myself for missing that option now
#launchpad 2012-11-06
<george_e> Code hosting seems to be broken.
<george_e> "bzr: ERROR: Unable to connect to SSH host bazaar.launchpad.net; Error reading SSH protocol banner"
<StevenK> No shells on this server.
<StevenK> Works for me?
<tsimpson> I keep getting "ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host" both from bzr and ssh
<StevenK> Now I do too
<tsimpson> http works fine, just ssh that's falling over
<StevenK> It's being investigated
<george_e> Ah, okay.
<sakhm2> hi, I'm uploading a source package to a ppa and get no e-mail response â I signed the code of conduct, signed the package, and launchpad has my key
<bigjools> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/227
<StevenK> tsimpson: It should be back and looking good now.
<tsimpson> StevenK: yep, looks good now
<persia> Could someone recommend a better way to get LP source than `bzr branch lp:launchpad`?  This keeps timing out for me.
<wgrant> persia: How much RAM do you have, and which version of bzr are you using?
<lifeless> persia: the export tarball thing in loggerhead.
<lifeless> persia: I wouldn't call it 'better' though
<persia> wgrant: bzr 2.5.1 and 1.5G in the environment I've been trying
<wgrant> You could likely use a little more RAM, but I'd normally expect that to work
<persia> lifeless: Why wouldn't you use "better" for that?  Should I expect the same issues with download speed, or is it that I lose all the revisions and submitting patches becomes hard?
<lifeless> the latter, and downloading shouldn't be any faster
<george_e_> Ah, SSH is working now.
<lifeless> persia: it might be faster in clock time (vs faster in bps)
<persia> lifeless: How do I get to that in loggerhead?  I don't see such a link exposed in the UI view.
<persia> lifeless: Faster in clock time is what I seek, although I admit that sometimes the bzr pull drops to 5kB/s, which I assume to be congestion at the DC
<persia> s/pull/branch/
 * persia finds the tarball button
<sakhm2> in case someone is free and could help, I submitted a question about a missing response to PPA upload - https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/213412
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Known Issues: PPAs currently running out of space: Bug 1071562. Help contact: czajkowski| Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<MCR1> cate
<MCR1> ups - wrong window focused :)
* czajkowski changed the topic of #launchpad to: Known Issues: PPAs currently running out of space: Bug 1071562. Help contact:-| Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<jtaylor> hi, you can't login to launchpad with opera 12.10
<jtaylor> when you press login you get a page is stale page
<czajkowski> jtaylor: our brower support is chrome and FF https://dev.launchpad.net/GradedBrowserSupport
<czajkowski> *chromium
<jtaylor> I know you don't support opera
<jtaylor> but at least login should work ...
<jtaylor> I can live with all the other issues
<dobey> jtaylor: file a bug please. irc isn't a bug reporting mechanism. use chrome or ff to log in and file a bug please.
<jtaylor> how should I report a bug if I can't login?
<jtaylor> ok I could use firefox ._.
<dobey> use a browser that you can log in with
<dobey> or use your phone
<dobey> or something
<dobey> login works fine on my phone at least
<dobey> it is webkit though
<jtaylor> yey restored my cookies from a backup and I'm back in
<jtaylor> I'll file a bug
<jtaylor> figured it out
<jtaylor> I need to enable referrer information sending
<jtaylor> isn't that something that can be caught on the server to give a better error message?
<tsimpson> if it's not in the HTTP standard, it can't really be done portably (if at all)
<andol> Is HTTP referers really something which should matter alt. be trusted in a login context?
<tsimpson> redirects allow the login process to work securely, so yes
<wgrant> andol, jtaylor: Referer checking is a standard anti-CSRF mechanism for HTTPS sites nowadays, so blocking Referer entirely is going to become more and more problematic as sites get more secure.
<wgrant> The error message could certainly be more useful, however
<wgrant> I think the wording is inherited from Django
<andol> wgrant: Ahh, thanks for the pointer.
#launchpad 2012-11-07
<maxb> czajkowski: I wonder if you're around, but probably not at this time of day?
<maxb> czajkowski: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/213391 was what I was going to raise. I've put my thoughts in a comment.
<Aaron> Hello how do you set up the email account that was forward to my account so i can write with my ubuntu email? using like evolution or any other client
<ricotz> hello, is there a problem with the automatic deletion of old binaries in ppas?
<TheLordOfTime> not sure that's ever been an "Issue"
<TheLordOfTime> define automatic deletion of old binaries
<TheLordOfTime> of course i'm not an LP admin nor an LP helper
<TheLordOfTime> but i dont htink old binaries get purged
<wgrant> ricotz: Yes, it's currently disabled due to a bug. If you need more PPA space because of this, ask at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion and someone will sort it out for you.
<ricotz> it seems they are currently not deleted anymore, so the repository size rises
 * TheLordOfTime points at wgrant's response
<wgrant> (see /topic)
<ricotz> hmm, i see, this leads not being able to upload anything :\
<wgrant> Sure, ask for your quota to be increased and that will be fixed.
<ricotz> wgrant, i know, this will only fix it for like on upload, e.g. https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ppa/+packages
<ricotz> i already requested several deletions while the packages are copied to the official ppa already
<wgrant> It should be turned back on early next week.
<wgrant> Until then you'll need to request a quote increase.
<wgrant> quota
<ricotz> ok
<ricotz> thanks
<ricotz> wgrant, do you mind taking a look at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/213539
<czajkowski> maxb: ok thanks
<maxb> czajkowski: thanks - and gosh, I have another bug comment from Christopher to argue with this morning :-/
<Lo-lan-do> Hi all. I come in peace (from #bzr) with a question about loggerhead.
<czajkowski> maxb: maybe not argue with him :)
<Lo-lan-do> I'm about to adopt the package, and it needs to be ported from the old YUI 3.0.0pre2 to the current YUI 3.5.
<Lo-lan-do> I'm told this channel might be of help (since I don't do Javascript much).
<czajkowski> maxb: each person does thing differently, I do things differently and talk to the users also.
<didrocks> hey
<didrocks> I was wondering when the code update on staging is supposed to end?
<czajkowski> didrocks: morning
<didrocks> hey czajkowski ;)
<czajkowski> didrocks: can you use https://qastaging.launchpad.net/  instead
<didrocks> czajkowski: should I just use "qastaging" instead of "staging" in the launchpadlib API?
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> StevenK: any idea...
<didrocks> seems so, but I'm getting then No such distribution series: 'quantal'.
<didrocks> so it's a really old instance? and doesn't have ubuntu series?
<didrocks> czajkowski: if the staging server is supposed to come back in the next couple of hours, I'm fine with that :)
<czajkowski> staging has been downa  whole alright.
<czajkowski> *while
<czajkowski> didrocks: there are no maintenance folks around for a bit waiting on USA folks to arrive, will poke when they do and get back to you.
<didrocks> czajkowski: excellent! I'm idling there meanwhile :) thanks a lot!
<czajkowski> np
<czajkowski> jcsackett: when you're alive read back up a bit please :D
<didrocks> (yeah, qastaging is an older snapshot, so I can just use that meanwhile)
<thopiekar> Hello :-) yesterday I noticed a running build which seems to run all the time.. https://launchpad.net/~thopiekar/+archive/quantal-dev/+build/3886376
<danilos> czajkowski, anyone: hi, are the private blueprints available for use on production systems?
<czajkowski> danilos: not sure just on lunch so asking someone for advice
<rick_h> danilos: they're in beta, the plan is to bring them out of beta with private projects
<rick_h> danilos: are you in the launchpad-beta-users group?
<rick_h> sorry, beta-testers
<rick_h> https://launchpad.net/~launchpad-beta-testers
<Lo-lan-do> rick_h: I'm told you're working on porting launchpad stuff to current YUI3. Does that include loggerhead?
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: so launchpad has been YUI3 for a long while, but we just got moved to YUI 3.5.1 recently
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: but no, I think loggerhead is a seperate project
<Lo-lan-do> Yeah, that's what I meant by "current", sorry :-)
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: doh sorry, too early to read straight
<Lo-lan-do> Ah, damn. I'll have to find another Javascript guru then.
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: happy to help if you need a hand with something, I've not really looked at loggerhead much. It's old turbogears stuff right?
<Lo-lan-do> No, the python part is paste. But I'm only worried about the Javascript for now.
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: hmm, looks like just 3 JS files
<rick_h> no real YUI objects
<rick_h> heh, and no tests :(
<Lo-lan-do> I tried porting to 3.5, but apparently I failed.
<Lo-lan-do> http://anonscm.debian.org/loggerhead/pkg-bazaar/loggerhead/unstable/annotate/head:/debian/patches/port-to-yui3.5.patch has my current efforts.
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: in theory, without going line by line, it doesn't look like anything major would break
<Lo-lan-do> There are a few renamed methods, but the main thing I have is the async loading and the lack of a global Y object.
<rick_h> yea, that'll break
<danilos> rick_h, hi, I used to be, let me double check
<rick_h> events don't propogate between Y instances
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: in launchpad we generate a var LP = YUI() to use as a global YUI instance to help with that for now since we have a ton of different JS blocks that need event propogation
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: I'd start small. First just update that yui/build dir with the yui3/build from github.
<danilos> rick_h, so, it won't be possible to have private blueprints on public projects? we'd want to use that in Linaro
<Lo-lan-do> I tried something like that, but apparently there are calls to the global object before everything is loaded, so IÂ get missing methods or so.
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: and then only include the yui-min.js base js file and remove the rest of the hard coded links
<rick_h> danilos: yes, it will be possible to do that. Actually that should work now if you're in the beta group
<Lo-lan-do> I use the packaged libjs-yui3-min
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: not familiar with that
<Lo-lan-do> It's just more convenient than getting an external copy, but the contents should be the same.
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: sec, looking
<danilos> rick_h, ok, I've rejoined it: what settings does a project need to have to be able to set a blueprint as a private one?
<TheLordOfTime> think your project needs to be private, but don't quote me on that
<TheLordOfTime> (private projects and stuff cost MONEY)(
<rick_h> danilos: looking/thinking
<czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: not for canonical projects it doesn't
<danilos> rick_h, thanks
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski, ah.  i just connected, no scrollbacks on this channel so, i dont have full context.
<czajkowski> ahh
<czajkowski> :)
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski, for other non-canonical projects, i assume it has to be private-registered?
<czajkowski> context is a wonderful thing alright :)
<TheLordOfTime> (znc's futzed :P)
<czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: http://blog.launchpad.net/general/privacy-for-blueprints-enabled-for-beta-testers  explains it all
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski, i meant in general
<rick_h> danilos:  ^^ heh was going to paste that
<rick_h> danilos: you need to have a commercial subscription and then set it up via the sharing UI
<TheLordOfTime> for others (that's a question for a potential business wanting to use LP)
<rick_h> danilos: honestly, pita at the moment
<czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: a commercial subscription is needed.
 * czajkowski really needs to get better at not looking at irc while on lunch 
<TheLordOfTime> that's what i suspected :P
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski, NOW I'M HUNGRY THANKS TO YOU
 * TheLordOfTime glares at czajkowski
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: what's the magic to run loggerhead locally ?
 * rick_h grumbles around setup.py without install_requires and lack of make run
<danilos> rick_h, right, thanks
<Lo-lan-do> rick_h: Something like ./serve-branches I think. I switched to using WSGI myself.
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: yea, tring to fire up gunicorn on the .wsgi file
<rick_h> oh come on...ugh bzrlib
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: so I'm tring to get it running, pointing the serve-branches at my loggerhead checkout dir and just get a 'Not Found' 404 at /
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: is there some url that's nothing to do with bzr branches I can test with or does it need something special for bzr repos to point at?
<vila> cElementTree.ParseError: unclosed token: line 16496, column 12 while using lp API, does that rings a bell, I'm pretty sure there is an lp bug for that but can't find it
<czajkowski> vila: matsubara finds all odd bugs easily
<vila> nm, bug #1014621
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1014621 in launchpadlib "cache corruption on api.launchpad.net,1.0,-application,vnd.sun.wadl+xml,fc06437932a618a4b30d0d0417f9234c" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014621
<vila> Alzheimer...
<Lo-lan-do> rick_h: It needs a location with branches in the http_root_dir option in your ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
<rick_h> danilos: czajkowski so I completely messed up since you can get a 30day commercial sub by adding a prop. license to the project
<rick_h> much easier that way
<czajkowski> ah yes
<czajkowski> the trial
<czajkowski> people forget they are on a trial a lot though
<rick_h> yea, but would have helped get their testing going on qastaging and such to enable private blueprints
<rick_h> without the commerical admin getting involved first, they can get involved after to extend it
<czajkowski> nods
<mmoya> hello support, I changed my username and now I always get 'Your page was stale' whenever I try to login. Cookies deleted, browser restarted, page reloaded, etc...
<czajkowski> mmoya: when did this happen?
<czajkowski> should be able to edit your username without any issue
<czajkowski> did you change anything else?
<czajkowski> didrocks: not forgootten you, we've just had the server kicked so hopefully there will be life soon thanks to gnuoy
<didrocks> czajkowski: good news! Thanks a lot :) keep me posted please
<mmoya> czajkowski: I changed it about one week ago
<mmoya> since 2-3 days I'm getting the 'stale' message
<mmoya> the first day I did think is was some transient error
<czajkowski> mmoya: did you have any issue after your changed it?
<mmoya> no
<mmoya> it was from maykelmoya -> mmoyar
<mmoya> now ~maykelmoya is gone and ~mmoyar is ok
<czajkowski> mmoya: well if you had no issue after you changed it, and now are having issues, we've not done anything
<mmoya> the issue I'm reporting is not related to changing the username but related to login after changing it
<czajkowski> mmoya: if you file a question I'll get someone to have a look https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<mmoya> ok, thanks
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: ping, https://code.launchpad.net/~rharding/loggerhead/yui3.7.1 is a start. It's running 3.7.1
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: the next error I hit was it couldn't find the class Collapsable, but not sure where that came from. An old YUI thing maybe, not sure
<rick_h> so it's not 100% tested, Y.get needs to be /get/one and such
<rick_h> but the basics load, in an nice uneffecient one file at a time way and all that jazz
<Lo-lan-do> rick_h: It's defined in custom.js
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: ah ok, so might need to stick it on window. or LH. so you can see it in the other file
<rick_h> must have typo'd in my bzr grep for it
<Lo-lan-do> Hey, I didn't know you could define functions within functions. Good to know :-)
<Lo-lan-do> Thanks anyway, I'll try to start again from there.
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: ok, forgot to add a bunch of files and fixed the collapsable and /query/one for finding nodes
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: so make sure to pull the updated branch
<czajkowski> didrocks: staging is back up now
<didrocks> czajkowski: rocking! thanks a lot :)
<Quintasan> czajkowski: mind if I query?
<czajkowski> Quintasan: can talk freely in here
<dobey> qemu-arm-static: /build/buildd/qemu-linaro-1.0.50-2012.03/user-exec.c:100: handle_cpu_signal: Assertion `({ unsigned long __guest = (unsigned long)(address) - guest_base; (__guest < (1ul << 32)) && (!reserved_va || (__guest < reserved_va)); })' failed.
<dobey> anyone know how to get around that? qemu seems to be having fits on oneiric for armel PPA builds
<Quintasan> czajkowski: sure, was wondering how jaintor works, when you increased ppa size for neon it just kept expanding until it reached 20GB
<Quintasan> I have no idea how to force it to delete old stuff
<czajkowski> Quintasan: we currently have a bug on the PPA side of things
<czajkowski> see the topic
<czajkowski> bug 1071562
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1071562 in Launchpad itself "UEFI signing failures cause binaries to be republished continuously" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071562
<czajkowski> which means ppas are running out of space
<Lo-lan-do> rick_h: Thanks a lot!
<Lo-lan-do> With a little more work, I trimmed my quilt patch to http://anonscm.debian.org/loggerhead/pkg-bazaar/loggerhead/unstable/annotate/head:/debian/patches/port-to-yui3.5.patch and it works :-)
<rick_h> Lo-lan-do: cool, let me know if you hit anything. Watch out for all those Y.get and Y.query which are no longer there but are Y.one/all
<rick_h> I didn't go through htings with a fine tooth comb and all that
<Quintasan> czajkowski: Oh, I see, thanks. Also I have been wondering if it would be possible to get arm builds in one ppa. Since I realise arm builders are not very fast and common a proper reason would be needed, right?
<czajkowski> Quintasan: are you Canonical ?
<czajkowski> or Linaro ?
<Quintasan> czajkowski: Unforutunately no.
<czajkowski> unfortunately arm are only reserved for those two groups.
<dobey> there are too many things named 'neon' in the foss world. http lib, kde builds project thing, and some ARM video thing
<dobey> nobody knows anything about that qemu error?
<czajkowski> dobey: didnt see what you were refering to
<dobey> qemu-arm-static: /build/buildd/qemu-linaro-1.0.50-2012.03/user-exec.c:100: handle_cpu_signal: Assertion `({ unsigned long __guest = (unsigned long)(address) - guest_base; (__guest < (1ul << 32)) && (!reserved_va || (__guest < reserved_va)); })' failed.
<dobey> getting that in an armel build on oneiric
<dobey> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/122220400/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.ubuntuone-client_4.0.0-0ubuntu1~oneiric2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dobey> and in another ppa, qemu on oneiric just segfaults at the same point where that error occurs in that build
<czajkowski> gnuoy: ^^^^^ any idea re arm ?
<gnuoy> czajkowski, I'm heading out the door, but a fellow webop might be able to help or point you in the right direction
<czajkowski> gnuoy: thanks
<czajkowski> gnuoy: ping them in here or the other place?
<gnuoy> czajkowski, here should be fine
<czajkowski> gnuoy: thanks
<czajkowski> webops can you please help with dobeys issue
<thedac> reading backscroll
<czajkowski> thedac: thanks
<thedac> dobey: are you thinking this is a buildd problem or a paackage problem?
<dobey> thedac: i think it's a qemu on oneiric problem; it bulit fine on precise and quantal
<thedac> so I have no immediate answers and that is way out of my skill set. I guess the question I am asking is this an IS issue we need to track down or is it a dev issue?
<dobey> thedac: i'm really not sure. i suppose someone from IS/webops will have to debug the problem at least. i guess it's not a launchpad dev issue anyway, seeing as it is specific to armel buildd on oneiric
<thedac> ok, let me talk to lamont and see if he has any insight
<slank> dobey: is it on one specific builder, or have there been multiple?
<dobey> thedac: i wouldn't say it's a super-urgent issue though, as we don't likely have many (if any) armel on oneiric users using our PPAs; but the red X icons for failed builds it causes on the lp page are annoying. :)
<thedac> dobey: ok
<dobey> slank: i haven't checked that, but i'd say multiple. i've seen the crash at least happen for several different builds in our nightlies PPA.
<dobey> slank: it may be the exact same problem as well; and i don't know that 'retry this build' will throw it on a different builder
<dobey> slank: if it will, i can hit retry a few times to verify that it does happen on multiple builders
<dobey> ok, appears it can end up on a different builder with retry; so will wait and see what happens this time
<thedac> dobey: based on quick google I suggest you file a bug against qemu
<dobey> thedac: is it possible to disable armel for a specific series in the PPAs?
<thedac> I'll check. What is the url for this ppa
<dobey> thedac: or install the newer qemu from precise on oneiric perhaps?
<dobey> thedac: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/beta is one of the PPAs
<thedac> dobey: so no way in the UI to specify by series the architechtures
<dobey> ok
<dobey> thedac: what about the possibility of a backport of qemu-kvm?
<thedac> dobey: Create an RT with that suggestion.
<dobey> no idea how to test this exactly; but at least there is no evidence so far of this bug existing in qemu-kvm 1.0 in precise
<dobey> so filing a bug against qemu will probably result in a "this is fixed already" response
<dobey> ok; i'll poke a bit more and possibly file that RT then.
<dobey> thedac: thanks much. :)
<dobey> slank: tried again, and it just segfaulted instead of the error, on a different builder
<slank> dobey: huh. log?
<dobey> slank: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/122287564/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.ubuntuone-client_4.0.0-0ubuntu1~oneiric2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<dobey> slank: so seems like an issue with the older version of qemu that's on oneiric; which appears to not be present in the newer versions. so i'll just file an RT to request using a backport of the newer version from precise, on oneiric builders. i think that should be fine to do. not sure there are binary compat issues for things built under qemu for running natively. i'd hope not
#launchpad 2012-11-08
<sakhm2> does anyone know if canonical provides a commercial option for launchpad to increase the build score for PPAs?
<czajkowski> sakhm2: commercial subscriptions do get a slighty higher build score yes
<TheLordOfTime> do the PPAs support Raring yet?
<yofel__> TheLordOfTime: they do
<apachelogger> ahoy, if someone could process https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/213663 I'd be a very happy user :)
<czajkowski> apachelogger: it does come into my queue
<czajkowski> but will look now
<czajkowski> apachelogger: done
<apachelogger> czajkowski: thank you :)
<czajkowski> np
<hrw> hi
<hrw> is it possible to make ARM only PPA? I have some packages for Chromebook and want to build/publish/test them before pushing them to Debian/Ubuntu archives.
<czajkowski> hrw: you're linaro/canonical?
<hrw> czajkowski: both
<czajkowski> hrw: what ppa specifically ?
<hrw> https://launchpad.net/~hrw/+archive/my-own-packages
<czajkowski> webops can you please look after hrw request
<hrw> so basically arm builders are company only so far?
<czajkowski> yes
<hrw> thx
<geser> hrw: AFAIK it's because of missing virtualization on ARM so only trusted people get access to them
<geser> hrw: does LP support building arch:all packages without an i386 builder?
<czajkowski> gnuoy: you about?
<hrw> geser: right. I used wrong wording
<gnuoy> czajkowski, I am
<czajkowski> gnuoy: could you look after hrw request re arm please
<gnuoy> czajkowski, hrw, I don't know of a way of excluding non-arm builds but I can enable arm on that ppa
<hrw> gnuoy: x86+arm is ok  ;)
<czajkowski> gnuoy: lovely thanks
<gnuoy> hrw, done
<hrw> cool, thanks
<dobey> geser: not yet; arch:all still only gets built on i386, as do source package builds for recipes iirc
<dholbach> hiya
<dholbach> can somebody help me renaming https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-adt to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-adk - I was in a hurry when I created it :)
<dholbach> or shall I file a ticket?
<dholbach> czajkowski, ^ :)
<czajkowski> sure
<czajkowski> done
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> dholbach: ^
<dholbach> holy cow
<dholbach> that was quick
 * dholbach hugs czajkowski
<dholbach> â happy
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski > time.normalspeed :P
<czajkowski> yeah we dont leave people waiting you know :)
<TheLordOfTime> just saying :P
<czajkowski> on the ball :)
<TheLordOfTime> yep.
<czajkowski> dholbach: lets be honest you're always happy! :)
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski, out of curiosity, any idea why i386 builders for PPAs have a smaller queue / less-time-to-build compared to AMD64?
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> see you had to ask a question I couldnt just answer
 * TheLordOfTime is evil/epic that way
<TheLordOfTime> but seriously, its a question i want answered :P
<dholbach> czajkowski, I'll leave you in that belief :)
<dobey> TheLordOfTime: random chance :)
<TheLordOfTime> dobey, https://launchpad.net/~format-junkie-team/+archive/release/+build/3965896  <-- 5 minutes, vs.  https://launchpad.net/~format-junkie-team/+archive/release/+build/3965896  <-- 4 hours ?
<TheLordOfTime> seems oddly consistently disparate
<dobey> oh, some build broke the privace of /builders again
<dobey> TheLordOfTime: those are the same link
<TheLordOfTime> oops
<TheLordOfTime> copy-past eissue
<TheLordOfTime> one moment
<TheLordOfTime> https://launchpad.net/~format-junkie-team/+archive/release/+build/3965895  <-- that's the 4 hours one
<TheLordOfTime> same package upload though :p
<czajkowski> dobey: you cant see it ?
<dobey> also, how'd you get '5 minutes' on i386 just now?
<TheLordOfTime> dobey, this was uploaded several hours ago
<dobey> czajkowski: nope, it showss the Forbidden page
<czajkowski> ahh
<TheLordOfTime> dobey, note the "created X hours ago" at the top of said pagesw
<czajkowski> I need a banner that says you have magical LP powers and can see stuff when others cant
<dobey> TheLordOfTime: oh; because i just submitted a couple of builds that said 4 or 5 hours, on i386
<TheLordOfTime> dobey, about 7 hours ago i uploaded the package.  the i386 says "5 minutes"
<TheLordOfTime> dobey, consistently with 25 other PPA uploads in the past, oh, many months, i386 has had far faster time-to-build-start times than amd64
<TheLordOfTime> sometimes with amd64 taking >8 hours longer to get to start building
<TheLordOfTime> so its a valid question: is that by-design, or is it something buggy
<czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: I suspect only webops folks would be able to answer that
<czajkowski> not lpadders
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski, any idea where i can poke them>?
<TheLordOfTime> either that, or i'll just file a question about it :P
<czajkowski> I've just done that
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski, awesome.
<TheLordOfTime> thanks.
<dobey> TheLordOfTime: it's not by design; it is more likely simply random chance; note also they are estimates, and there could be something building that is taking overly long to build or such
 * TheLordOfTime initiates lurkmode while he runs to grab some coffee
<TheLordOfTime> dobey, the estimates've been consistently disparate even when they get moved around.
<dobey> there have been things in the past which have taken >24 hours building; which can screw with build times
<TheLordOfTime> i386 time-to-build-start is always less than amd64 time-to-build-start.
<TheLordOfTime> dobey, i expect that on the builders for release, not PPAs :/
<dobey> TheLordOfTime: right, but usually they start at the same time for me
<TheLordOfTime> s/I expect/I'd expect/
<dobey> TheLordOfTime: also, some amd64 packages may have to wait for certain i386 builds to finish first, when arch:all deps are involved i guess
<czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: it really does just vary tbh
<czajkowski> and dont forget other things that have a higher score do pop in from time to time also
<TheLordOfTime> <TheLordOfTime> dobey, the estimates've been consistently disparate even when they get moved around.  <-- that included that chance.
<TheLordOfTime> anyways, coffee run.
<smoser> it seems that pad.lv is bustd?
<smoser> example: http://pad.lv/978127
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 978127 in cloud-init (Ubuntu Precise) "incorrect time on node causes failed oauth" [High,Triaged]
<czajkowski> never heard of pad.lv
<czajkowski> smoser: trying to find out now
 * smoser loves pad.lv (http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/pad-lv)
<czajkowski> smoser: funky 9 months in and learn something new
<jonrafkind> what is the status of 1071562?
<dobey> bug #1071562 ?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1071562 in Launchpad itself "UEFI signing failures cause binaries to be republished continuously" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071562
<jonrafkind> yes
<jonrafkind> i meant is anyone working on it?
<sinzui> jonrafkind, We expect it to be fixed next week
<jonrafkind> ok
<dobey> ugh. /builders is still 'Forbidden'
<yofel_> make that 'again', it was accessible again a while ago :/
<xnox> https://launchpad.net/builders is having that thing again
<xnox> where it's "Not allowed here"
<xnox> instead of showing status / summary
<xnox> I remember it did that once before sometime in precise cycle.
<xnox> czajkowski, remember that one time?
<czajkowski> dobey: xnox stuff on there being built that is private it doesnt know how to only show stuff that is able to be displayed so it shows it all hidden
<dobey> czajkowski: there was a bug previously that was fixed; but it appears it's been reintroduced
<xnox> dobey: exatcly.
<dobey> czajkowski: for a while, it was showing 'Private build' on builders that were doing such; but now it seems it's broken again
<czajkowski> dobey: this is what sinzui tells me
<xnox> since it's only suppose to show "building private built"
<sinzui> This is was never fixed and engineers ague over how to handle builds that involve private teams or P3As The page becomes unavailable while the edge cases are building
<sinzui> The odd think about this build is that I can see it. This is the first time since I don't have special build privs. I think this means I am in the team or subscribed to the p3a that is building
<dobey> sinzui: i'm pretty sure i remember wgrant or someone talking about a fix getting deployed for this the last time there was a bunch of noise about it in here. and i quite definitely know i have seen "Private build" listed for some builders on that page when private builds were happening, after that point in time, and before now.
<wgrant> It's the old case of the copy from a public PPA into a private PPA owned by a private team that you're not authorised to see.
<sinzui> We need inline redacting for this case I think
<wgrant> Certainly
<wgrant> It should say "Private build" like other private builds
<wgrant> It just doesn't, yet :)
<dobey> wgrant: are those copies what's been killing build queue times today as well?
<wgrant> dobey: No
<wgrant> That's just lots of people uploading stuff :/
<mwhudson> always a problem when people use your system for its intended purpose :)
<dobey> wgrant: lots of Canonical/Linaro people uploading long build packages or something? even my uploads with the tweaked build scores have had extremely long wait times today :-/
<czajkowski> this is the problem then when people come looking for build bumps
<czajkowski> pushes other peoples down on the queue :/
<wgrant> Yeah
<wgrant> Everyone says their packages are important, so everyone ends up waiting anyway :)
<dobey> well, i'm only hitting this issue really because LP defaults to 'rebuild the binaries' for copying packages across PPAs; and i didn't notice until after i'd already copied that it did that. :-/
<dobey> and i can't delete the packages and just copy the binaries over
<dobey> that really should default to 'copy existing binaries'
<dobey> anyway, i have to go now. later :)
<czajkowski> lifeless: pugtastic!
<lifeless> czajkowski: its pretty cool :)
<czajkowski> it is
<czajkowski> I do love pugs!
#launchpad 2012-11-09
<superm1> is there a workaround for this PPA's out of space issue?  i've got a couple of daily build ppas for ~mythbuntu that have been sending emails for days now about being full even though there are almost no packages there
<wgrant> superm1: Sure, ask at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion for a quota increase
<superm1> wgrant: oh that's the only workaround?  with how much the builds churn from day to day, that would probably only help for another day or two
<persia> superm1: Rumours indicate that a fix should land early next week, so that might be enough
<tsdgeos> https://launchpad.net/~aacid/+archive/qt5hacks/+build/3962969 "failed to build" and no other explanation at all?
<geser> tsdgeos: try a "retry" if you can
<tsdgeos> geser: well, it's going to take 24 hours again, i'd like to know what failed to be honest
<geser> my guess is LP lost track of the build
<StevenK> If it seriously did take 24 hours, and if the build spent 5 hours on one step with no output, it gets killed.
<tsdgeos> StevenK: it took 24 hours in the queue, it's not my fault stuff the servers are overloaded
<tsdgeos> i'll retry
<StevenK> I can bump it up if you wish to watch
<tsdgeos> nah it's ok, i have other things to do
<tsdgeos> it's just 4 hours this time
<StevenK> Not any more ...
<tsdgeos> StevenK: thanks
<jochensp> Hi, what happens to a binary package in a PPA if the source package doesn't provide it anymore, will it be delete from the PPA?
<TheLordOfTime> jochensp:  i dont think it'll be purged from a PPA unless you hit the delete button...
<TheLordOfTime> but i'm not sure.
 * TheLordOfTime pokes czajkowski who might know
<jochensp> TheLordOfTime: thanks for the answer, but I need a definite statement because I would need to redesign my packages otherwise
<TheLordOfTime> jochensp:  you realize i poked someone who'd know?
<TheLordOfTime> also, patience.
<jochensp> TheLordOfTime: yes, just wanted to thank you :)
 * TheLordOfTime assumes people automatically don't thank him, thereby it eradicates the issue of impoliteness :P
<TheLordOfTime> but...
<TheLordOfTime> thanks for thanking me.
<czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: one moment
<czajkowski> am in the middle of one thing :)
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<czajkowski> also patience :)
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski:  i'm not the one asking the question :P
 * TheLordOfTime realizes he broke nginx and goes to fix it
<czajkowski> jochensp: normally they are deleted every 6 hours, but we currently have a bug open about that which is being worked on
<jochensp> czajkowski: thanks
<czajkowski> np
<mdeslaur> Can someone confirm that there's no API to delete a nomination? I see getNominations() and addNomination(), but nothing to delete...
<mdeslaur> oh, actually...an approved nomination is then called a task, right?
<mdeslaur> Is there an api to delete a task?
<mdeslaur> ah, found it, nm
<SpamapS> How come https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~work-items-tracker-hackers/launchpad-work-items-tracker/trunk is "not a branch" to bzr, but without the https, it works fine?
<czajkowski> mgz: ^^
<SpamapS> Or, perhsp to the bigger issue, is there any way to fetch branches over https or bzr+ssh anonymously
<tedg> sinzui, Hey, so it seems that I can't make a series private, is that correct or am I missing something?
<sinzui> Lp doesn't have private series
<sinzui> Beta testers can create Proprietary projects which are private
<tedg> Okay, I see.
<tedg> Thanks sinzui
<sinzui> tedg, In general the who project can be Proprietary or Embargoed to make it confidential. Bugs, Branches, and Blueprints can be made confidential on Public projects
<sinzui> s/who/whole/
<tedg> sinzui, Yeah, I was hoping to use a private series for private milestones in my blueprints.
<tedg> sinzui, Not worth making another project to be private.
<mgz> SpamapS: no, but you can register a bot and give it a dedicated ssh key
<mgz> or fetch over http and check signatures on the branch, if they're used
<SpamapS> mgz: is there any technical reason https doesn't work though?
<mgz> SpamapS: just not plumbed in I think
<mgz> though there may be twisty launchpady reasons why that's not easy to do
<SpamapS> its weird because hitting it in the browser gives the same result
<SpamapS> 301 -> changes
<mgz> right, the https one is actually a different box, hence the redirect
<chrisccoulson> hmmm, can i get more space for https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/firefox-next/ and https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/thunderbird-next/ please, whilst bug 1071562 still exists?
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1071562 in Launchpad itself "UEFI signing failures cause binaries to be republished continuously" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1071562
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: sure
<czajkowski> should be fixed shortly though
<chrisccoulson> thanks
<czajkowski> chrisccoulson: done
<chrisccoulson> cool, thanks :)
<twoxyo> hi ! Is there somebody available 5 min ? I try to update the trunk branch of a launchpad project from a Bazaar branch to a github project : https://launchpad.net/glances/trunk/ ;
<twoxyo> When I try, I have the following message : This foreign branch URL is already specified for the imported branch ~2xyo/glances/master.
<mdeslaur> so, are we generally supposed to be using "1.0" or "devel"?
<mgz> twoxyo: seems someone else already has that git branch imported?
<mgz> mdeslaur: that's a small mystery to me too, though I've seen a couple of places where devel was deliberately used because 1.0 lacked a particular api
<mdeslaur> mgz: right, that's what I'm hitting now
<mgz> in which case, using devel is what people seem to do :)
<mgz> twoxyo: so, it seems the current state on launchpad is what you want? and irc doesn't like nicks that start with numbers.
<SpamapS> hrm, is there a way to get launchpadlib to keep an HTTPS connection open for a while? Watching the work items tracker scrape all the blueprints, each one requiring a new SSL handshake, is a little painful
<alesage> is it possible to just upload something to launchpadlibrarian?  I need to be able to "attach" a file to a Launchpad merge proposal
<maxb> no, it isn't. I'd suggest attaching it to a bug, creating one if necessary
<alesage> thx maxb
<Sweetshark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1017125/+nominate <- no nomination for quantal possible? is that intentional?
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1017125 in boost1.49 (Ubuntu Quantal) "boost::unordered_multimap<>::erase(iterator, iterator) broken on quantal" [High,New]
<maxb> Sweetshark: Looks to already be done to me
<maxb> Or, if you're asking about permissions, I think series nomination is quite locked down, to prevent overly-excited users nominating bugs for series without regard to an understanding of Ubuntu's processes
<Sweetshark> maxb: hmm, but I can nominate every series except quantal -- that just seems wrong.
<Sweetshark> launchpad is teasing me.
<Sweetshark> ;)
<maxb> Sweetshark: as I said, quantal is already nominated there
<Sweetshark> maxb: gah!
 * Sweetshark needs to take his drugs ;)
<Sweetshark> <- facepalm
<simplew> can anyonetell if is possible to get a diff from the last changes made in launchpat for a certain project ?
#launchpad 2012-11-10
<ScottK> Sweetshark: If a bug has been nominated for a release and the task is later removed, you can't add it again.
<vivekimsit> Hi guys! I am having some problem using launchpad on ssh. Any other ways of pushing, pulling or checking out the branches?
<vivekimsit> any idea guys?
<cardpuncher> Hi, https://staging.launchpad.net/ says there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server and that the staging server is getting a code update. The problem is that the message is there since yesterday so the situation persists. Is this normal or a known problem?
<StevenK> cardpuncher: staging restores its database over the weekend, which can take up to a day
<cardpuncher> Thanks StevenK.
<TheLordOfTime> anyone here familiar with system-level changes in the bug trackers for Launchpad?  kinda curious whether there's a force-redirect in place for a specific "Report a Bug" link pattern.
<TheLordOfTime> and if so, when it was put in place
<TheLordOfTime> specifically:
<TheLordOfTime> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug forces a redirect to a wiki page for non-bugcontrol people.  that's confirmed.  did that redirect get put in place for all the report bug buttons for ubuntu (including package specific ones)?
<wgrant> TheLordOfTime: That redirect has been in place for many years, at the request of Ubuntu.
#launchpad 2012-11-11
<njin> Hallo I have problems receiving mails from @ubuntu.com redirected on hotmail
<S0M30N3> Hi, how does launchpad update the version in debian controll when building a ppa?
<S0M30N3> does it use a given updateversion.sh script?
<S0M30N3> can anyone please help on this? The dependencies in our ppa is broken because of this.
<lifeless> S0M30N3: It doesn't change it. It buids the package the same as e.g. pbuilder.
<S0M30N3> but it add '~quantal' to the version which causes our problems
<lifeless> You may be building via a recipe, which is a preprocessor to the actual build.
<lifeless> any alteration there is entirely under your control
<S0M30N3> with recipe do you mean something in makefile?
<lifeless> !recipe
<S0M30N3> so I would have to catch the version string in makefile and run our updateversion.sh with this
<lifeless> no
<lifeless> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/SourceBuilds/GettingStarted
<S0M30N3> ah, okay.
<S0M30N3> Thx I'll read this and try out.
<lifeless> If you are not using recipes, Launchpad won't be changing the version number. So you probably are using recipes, in which case you deliberately setup the version editing that is happening.
<S0M30N3> hmm. Looks like the recipes are not inside our trunk.
<S0M30N3> and I can't find them on launchpad neither
<S0M30N3> So I'll have to wait for the mate who manage the ppa
<bigjools> the build tells you which recipe it used, just click on it
<S0M30N3> can you please point me where?
<S0M30N3> this is the ppa https://launchpad.net/~bit-team/+archive/stable
<S0M30N3> looks like I'm blind ;)
<bigjools> which package?
<S0M30N3> backintime-gnome-1.0.14~quantal for example
<bigjools> well there's no recipes being used by the looks of it, so whoever made the package set the version directly
<bigjools> https://launchpad.net/~bit-team/+archive/stable/+packages
<S0M30N3> Okay. So I'll talk back to him.
<bigjools> fwiw it looks fine to me
<bigjools> you need to have different versions in different release series
<bigjools> unless you copy the same binaries into each
<S0M30N3> thats right. but dependencies are broken because 1.0.14 != 1.0.14~quantal
<bigjools> dependencies are wrong then I guess
<S0M30N3> yes. but only in the ppa
<bigjools> fair enough
<S0M30N3> if I update version manually and build the package everything works fine
<maxb> The uploader must be failing to correctly construct the source package, then
<lifeless> S0M30N3: exact version dependencies are usually wrong
<S0M30N3> I tried to use '>= 1.0.14' but that didn't match '1.0.14~quantal' neither
<maxb> Well, indeed
<maxb> ~ has the meaning of 'less than nothing' in version comparisons
<maxb> You probably shouldn't be using it here, but people have grown to use it without understanding its true meaning
<S0M30N3> good to know
<S0M30N3> so if we use '1.0.14-quantal' (minus instead of tilde) it would work with '>=1.0.14' ?
<maxb> Well
<wgrant> hyphens are special
<wgrant> You probably want a hyphen, but not like that :)
<maxb> minus/hyphen has the special meaning of separating the upstream and packaging version parts
<wgrant> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version
<maxb> The smallest change you could make to get the existing packaging working would be to express the dependency as (>= 1.0.14~)
<lifeless> which is a bit of a mind bending relation
<lifeless> :)
<wgrant> Yet rather common
<maxb> The majority of >= dependencies probably ought to have a ~ on the end of them
<bigjools> the packaging version stuff ties itself in so many knots
<S0M30N3> maxb: hehe. I tried this. But than my normal dependnecies with '1.0.14' doesn't work anymore
<maxb> S0M30N3: I don't understand?
<lifeless> bigjools: indeed
<lifeless> bigjools: its indicative of some underlying failures
<bigjools> completely
<S0M30N3> if I add a tilde to the version in dependency this would work for the ppa
<S0M30N3> but not if I build the package myself
<wgrant> And it would work for a version of '1.0.14' as well
<wgrant> '~' is less than nothing
<wgrant> Which means '' is greater than it
<wgrant> So 1.0.14 > 1.0.14~
<lifeless> bigjools: single timeline of versions for dealing with multiple independent timelines
<bigjools> lifeless: yeah I was thinking the same thing - not sure how I'd solve it though :)
<bigjools> I suspect whatever else anyone would come up with would suffer an equal amount of different problems :)
<maxb> S0M30N3: I don't see why a tiled-appended version wouldn't work for your own builds too
<S0M30N3> just a sec. I'll double-check. May be I'm wrong
<maxb> Because 1.0.14 satisfies >= 1.0.14~
<S0M30N3> maxb: yes that works. Don't know what I've done when I checked this earlier.
<lifeless> bigjools: options - decouple the timeline so you have N timelines, or stop doing things that create N timelines
<lifeless> bigjools: e.g. we could say 'only ever build on one version of ubuntu' and do the copy forward autoamtically.
<lifeless> so you pick the oldest version you want to support and then build there exclusively.
#launchpad 2013-11-04
<drstikko> StevenK: yes this all succeeded and packages are build, but no binaries. Where does the build system gets his info from for placing the binaries? From the install step in the Makefile?
<StevenK> drstikko: Can you link me to the recipe page, and I'll have a look?
<drstikko> yes of course
<drstikko> StevenK: https://code.launchpad.net/~d-r-stikkolorum/+recipe/dporg-daily
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: yes, a build on launchpad does both. You might be missing stuff in your debian/control file (so no binaries get built)
<drstikko> JonnyJD_: I think they even get build, but not added to the deb. I think the builder gets info from the Makefile
<drstikko> .... for placing the binairies e.g. in /usr/bin
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: the builder does not "get info from makefile"
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: the builder uses the makefile
<JonnyJD_> possibly the makefile is not prepared to do standard things like DESTDIR (not autotools build?)
<drstikko> JonnyJD: I understand,
<JonnyJD_> check your debian/rules, or link them here, somebody might find the problem
<drstikko> JonnyJD, wel I discovered there was no make install step in the Makefile
<drstikko> .... so I added that
<drstikko> .... but I have no quota anymore for today ;)
<JonnyJD_> how does your debian/rules work? using debhelper?
<drstikko> JonnyJD: I used debhelper
<drstikko> ... did not changed the rule file
<drstikko> and use a Makefile
<maxb> No 'make install' implementation would certainly account for not getting anything installed :-)
<maxb> It's generally wrong for a package to be installing into /usr/local/ though
<JonnyJD_> hm, then fixing the install target in the makefile to use the DESTDIR and/or PREFIX environment variables might help (don't know which exactly, but DESTDIR would be my first)
<drstikko> maxb: yes, ;) I also thought that, but could not try it, too many builds today
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: you can also build locally first
<maxb> LP isn't really meant as a service for practising building things, you should just do that on your local computer
<drstikko> JonnyJD_ : added it to the Makefile, can try it tomorrow
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: try bzr builddeb and "pbuilder" for local builds
<drstikko> max: yes you are probably right
<drstikko> ... but local was not working
<drstikko> ok JonnyJD, thnx
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: I do "bzr builddeb -S" to create the dsc and "cd ../build-area && pbuilder build <dsc file>"
<JonnyJD_> but explaining how that works exactly is a bit much for now on IRC (you'll find something on google)
<maxb> pbuilder is a helpful tool for replicating builds in a clean environment, but there's no need to go to that extent just to develop things like Makefiles
<maxb> It should be perfectly fine to just run 'dpkg-buildpackage -b' in a local bzr tree
<drstikko> ok I'll give it a try locally
<JonnyJD_> maxb, drstikko: well, yes. If you have a nice debian environment for building you can also go without. I use pbuilder to make sure I have a clean build environment/system
<maxb> A clean-chroot approach is a valuable tool, but can make development more cumbersome when you're rapidly changing things and rebuilding
<drstikko> wel dpkg-source: error: aborting due to unexpected upstream changes, see /tmp/dporg_0.3-15-1.diff.qKJfrd
<drstikko> ... is what I get from bzr builddeb -S
<drstikko> and dpkg-buildpackage -b calls the wrong qmake
<maxb> I don't know much (anything) about qmake, but perhaps your package should be specifying the correct one somehow
<maxb> As for the other - it means you have changes in your bzr tree that don't match the upstream tarball, and aren't properly represented as patches
<maxb> You have a very strange version string too - it's generally considered unusual to have more than one hyphen
<drstikko> maxb: ok I will give it a look tomorrow
<drstikko> heading for bed now, all new to me this environment
<drstikko> thn guys
<maxb> The hyphen serves as the separator between the upstream version and the packaging version - whilst there's a systematic definition of how to interpret versions with multiple hyphens, it's generally considered too confusing to be wise to rely on
<drstikko> Anyone can help me out with dpkg-buildpackage to force to qmake-qt4 in stead of qmake
<AndChat|358400> Can anyone help me out with forcing dpkg-buildpackage use qmake-qt4 in stead of qmake ?
<Pomyk_> hello, I have a problem with a branch, it's stuck in "updating branch...": https://code.launchpad.net/~pomyks/maria/10.0-per-query-variables
<drstikko> who knows how to force dpkg-buildpackage to use qmake-qt4
<drstikko> ?
<wgrant> drstikko: Have you tried the --buildsystem=qmake_qt4 option to dh?
<drstikko> wgrant not yet :) going to try
<wgrant> Pomyk_: I've fixed that branch up.
<drstikko> wgrant how to add that? just in the rules file? (I see  I cannot add it to the dpkg-buildpackage command))
<wgrant> drstikko: That would go as an argument to the dh invocation in your debian/rules file.
<drstikko> I tried but does not accept it
<Pomyk_> wgrant: thanks!
<wgrant> drstikko: What do you mean?
<drstikko> wgrant rules file is very empty: %: dh $@  , the rest is in the Makefile
<wgrant> drstikko: dh --buildsystem=qmake_qt4 $@
<drstikko> yes I tried that
<wgrant> What didn't work?
<drstikko> wgrant dh: Unknown sequence --buildsystem=qmake_qt4 (options should not come before the sequence)
<wgrant> Ah, other way around, then
<drstikko> wgrant like this : --buildsystem=qmake_qt4 dh $@   ?
<wgrant> dh $@ --buildsystem=qmake_qt4
<drstikko> wgrant: that worked better!! only error at the end: dh_usrlocal: debian/dporg/usr/local/bin/dporg is not a directory
<drstikko> rmdir: failed to remove `debian/dporg/usr/local/bin': Directory not empty
<drstikko> dh_usrlocal: rmdir debian/dporg/usr/local/bin returned exit code 1
<drstikko> dporg is my executable
<wgrant> Your Makefile shouldn't be installing things into /usr/local.
<wgrant> Packages aren't to contain anything in that subtree.
<drstikko> wgrant: ok what location then?
<wgrant> One would usually use /usr/bin etc. rather than /usr/local/bin. /usr/local is for non-packaged files.
<drstikko> wgrant, that worked, I had to use sudo also I noticed.
<cjwatson> You should never need to use sudo in packaging.
<wgrant> drstikko: You must not use sudo in debian/rules
<cjwatson> Sounds like you were trying to install into /usr/bin rather than debian/dporg/usr/bin ...
<drstikko> wgrant, cjwatson, but dpkg-buildpackage -b gave me: rm: cannot remove `debian/dporg/DEBIAN/md5sums': Permission denied
<drstikko>  and I whole bunch of those
<wgrant> drstikko: That's what will happen if you run bits of it with sudo.
<wgrant> Because root will have created things.
<wgrant> Perhaps 'sudo debian/rules clean' once to get rid of the root-owned files.
<drstikko> wgrant, clwatson ;) yes noticed that!! Fixed now, thanks works great!
<cjwatson> In future use fakeroot rather than sudo.
<sreedevi> Hello, I am trying to fix one minor bug in launchpad. I pushed my committed branch, Could you please verify my fix, This is my first bug, Please help me
<sreedevi> My bug link is:https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/secure-delete/+bug/1245415
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1245415 in secure-delete (Ubuntu) "Spelling mistake in smem's page" [Undecided,In progress]
<czajkowski> sreedevi: the folks on LP are in AU timezones
<czajkowski> you may not get a reply here
<czajkowski> have you thought of posting it to the mailing list for feedback/.review?
<cjwatson> That isn't a fix in Launchpad - you should look in Ubuntu channels for review, not here
<sreedevi> czajkowski: Whom should I subscribe in launchpad to get my fix verified, Can you please help me with this
<czajkowski> cjwatson: morning
<cjwatson> You'd only look for reviewers here (or indeed #launchpad-dev) if it were a fix to Launchpad itself, rather than to a project hosted on Launchapd
<cjwatson> sreedevi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
<czajkowski> ah I didnt check to see if it wasn't lp realted given the user was posting in here
<cjwatson> czajkowski: morning, or something
<czajkowski> cjwatson: so messed up on times :/ going to be a long week
<sreedevi> Thank you
<adam345> maria mercedes
<cgregan1> Hello Launchpad team. I moved an internal Canonical Project (checkbox-ihv-ng) over to private license so the bugs can be made private. But now it seems I need to "buy" a commercial license. Who do I need to send some lp karma bucks over to for that? TA
<czajkowski> cgregan1: just mail commercial@lp.net and they can apply the commerical voodoo needed :)
<cgregan1> awesome..thanks czajkowski
<czajkowski> np
<drstikko> Hi my recipe contains :  # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debupstream}-0~{revno} and results in dporg - 0.3-15-0~21~ubuntu12.04.1 I was told this is not a neat version number. What would be the right line in the recipe or do I have to change the control file?
<drstikko> Hi my recipe contains :  # bzr-builder format 0.3 deb-version {debupstream}-0~{revno} and results in dporg - 0.3-15-0~21~ubuntu12.04.1 I was told this is not a neat version number. What would be the right line in the recipe or do I have to change the control file?
<dobey> drstikko: #ubuntu-packaging is the right place to ask, but {debupstream}+r{revno}-{revno:packaging} (with packaging in a different branch), is what i usually use. you need to not have multiple '-' characters in your version string. it's a bit weird that one is included in the {debupstream} portion there.
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: you can replace the first - with ~ in debian/changelog
<drstikko> JonnyJD_:  for me the format is not clear, I think fiirst I need to see some examples
<JonnyJD_> the format in the recipe is fine, but your upstream version doesn't seem to be
<drstikko> I think that's the part I don't get
<drstikko> how do I change upstream info?
<drstikko> I like to have it like dporg_0.3-24 where 24 is the revision number
<drstikko> or is that crappy?
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: upstream shouldn't have a revision number
<JonnyJD_> if that is the upstream build revison, then remove it
<JonnyJD_> if this is part of the actual (source) version, change it so no - is used anymore
<dobey> that's not really how the revision number should be, unless the only revissions in the branch, are packaging (but even so, may cause problems to use it that way)
<drstikko> first of all, I just wrote a tool and like to share it with launchpad, is that what you call upstream? (sorry new to this). I think it is not mature enough to give it a 1.x number. So that's why I decided to choose 0.3 at the moment. I thought minor changes maybe could be after 0.3- so for example 0.3-24. How would one do this normally?
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: have a look at http://semver.org
<JonnyJD_> in short: you should use 0.3.24 as a version number
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: and since you are also respsonsible for upstream: keep that separated
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: other people should be able to package your stuff easily, too
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: the workflow is like that: with your "upstream hat" you release 0.3.54. Then with your "packager hat" you create packaging starting with -0drstikko1
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: if you change something in the packaging you release with 0drstikko2 (source didn't change, but packaging did)
<drstikko> okay the 0.3.24 I could follow ;)
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: that -0 is because there is no official Debian package you are changing and drstikko because this is your packaging (-0ubuntu1 is used for official ubuntu packaging afaik)
<drstikko> and the I start a new branch wit 0.4 right?
<JonnyJD_> if that is a new branch or the same branch is up to you
<drstikko> ok
<JonnyJD_> but if you add things to the "API", as in "change how the tool can be used" than go to 0.4
<JonnyJD_> if everything gets "stable" then you should relese 1.0 and then 1.0.x for small changes and 1.1 for backwards compatible features
<JonnyJD_> 2.0 is then for backwards incompatible changes
<drstikko> yes ok, so complete name would be dporg_0.3-25-0drstikko1 ?
<JonnyJD_> drstikko:  dporg-0.3.25-0drstikko1
<JonnyJD_> but you only put 0.3.25-0drstikko1 in debian/changelog
<JonnyJD_> you don't have to do the -0drstikko1 stuff, (you can also just do -1), but this helps if ubuntu or debian build packages later on
<JonnyJD_> (official non-ppa packages)
<drstikko> ok. so you just manually add the stuff to the changelog? I thought it has to be automated
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: what you might be referring to is building from revisions, not from version tags?
<drstikko> I think, but don't know for shure
<JonnyJD_> when you build from revisions, then you just leave your last stable release in debian/changelog and note in the recipe that you do git packages or similar
<drstikko> what do you mean by that?
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: an example for stable builds: https://code.launchpad.net/~musicbrainz-developers/+recipe/python-discid
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: and for daily git builds: https://code.launchpad.net/~musicbrainz-developers/+recipe/python-discid-daily
<JonnyJD_> basically you add +git<revno> after {debupstream} and then -0drstikko{revno:packaging}
<JonnyJD_> this makes sure that different git/bzr revisions get a new "source version" and whenever packaging changes, the build revision also changes
<drstikko> I think I was trying to link revision numbers with version numbers. But I think version numbers you 'just' decide and revisons of course increment automatically
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: if your "debian" folder is actually part of the source, then you don't need {revno:packaging} since package changes are also code changes
<JonnyJD_> I want to note that having "debian" part of the "upstream" source isn't the best thing to do, but it works
<JonnyJD_> basically because you should separte you with the "upstream hat" and "packaging hat", other packagers might not want to use your "debian" folder
<drstikko> ok. will try to change that later. First want to tackle this version stuff ;)
<JonnyJD_> and yes, you decide version numbers with your "upstream hat" and packaging revisions with your "packager hat".
<JonnyJD_> you would now just have in your debian/changelog 0.3.24-0drstikko1 now and {debupstream}+bzr{revno}-0drstikko1 in your recipe
<drstikko> ok, thnx JonnyJD_ I will first try to make a nice versionned build.
<drstikko> and the fix this debian folder issue, but where do I put it? Or is that a long story?
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: you can have a different bzr repo just with "debian" and "nest" it in the recipe
<drstikko> ah ok
<JonnyJD_> you can also remove it from "upstream" repo, but include both in a launchpad repo (you still need to use nesting for bzr/git builds though)
<JonnyJD_> and every time you make a stable releas, you merge upstream source in a launchpad repo where you also have a "debian" folder
<JonnyJD_> there are multiple options, but your "real" upstream repository shouldn't include it
<drstikko> ok, thnx. I think I first need to clean the ppa and remove the old build if possible
<drstikko> JonnyJD: how to remove the builds?
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: you can only request deleting them, but your new builds will supercede the old ones anyways, I think
<TheLordOfTime> they should if they have higher version numbers
<dobey> you can't upload things with lower version numbers
<TheLordOfTime> at least, as I understand the system
<TheLordOfTime> mhm
<JonnyJD_> there is some link on the upper right on your PPA for deletion, if you want to do it anyways
<dobey> regardless of if you delete them
<dobey> deleting them won't let you upload older versions
<JonnyJD_> I remember the problem is that that is only a deletion request
<JonnyJD_> so they are still there. And I am not sure if they are deleted at all if they were built successfully and published once
<dobey> it's a request because it's a cron job that does the deletion
<dobey> but it only deletes the files on disk. it doesn't delete the version information from the database
<JonnyJD_> ah okay
<drstikko> I just want to keep the build page clean from the moment my versionning is allright
<TheLordOfTime> i think the "Builds" list/page will still remain filled with the old data?
<TheLordOfTime> dobey: ^
<JonnyJD_> drstikko: only the latest build shows anyways (except you explicitely show the others)
<JonnyJD_> and the build page for a recipe only lists the last 5 builds anyways
<drstikko> ok, thnx
<dobey> TheLordOfTime: yes, though the +packages listing won't be
<TheLordOfTime> right
<drstikko> can anyone advise me what to do with this above 12.04 ubuntu has libpoppler-qt4-4, but 10.04-12.04 have libpoppler-qt4-3. Is there a way to add this in the control file?
<drstikko> because my tool depends on it
<dobey> you don't. you just build-depends on libpoppler-qt4-dev and use ${shlibs:Depends} for the binary packages
<dobey> and like i said earlier, #ubuntu-packaging is a better place to ask about packaging questions
<dobey> this isn't the right place for it
<drstikko> dobey: well I thought maybe the launchpad build system had something to do with it
<dobey> no, it doesn't. :)
<paultag> Any Soyuz-ers here?
<paultag> If so, I'm wondering how Soyuz handles arch:all package creation - do all arches build arch:all debs and push up where the archive ignores second pushes or does it do an indep build first then do archful builds
<tsimpson> afaik, i386 buildds build them
<paultag> oh I see.
<paultag> how does it handle stuff like some wireless firmware that needs to build on arm (even though one can install it anywhere)
<tsimpson> I have no clue about that
<paultag> ack
<paultag> tsimpson: thanks for your help :)
<tsimpson> sure
<maxb> paultag: afaik, the answer is that it doesn't handle that
<paultag> maxb: hunh.
<wgrant> paultag: There's only a couple of arch-indep packages that need to be built on a particular arch.
<wgrant> paultag: Launchpad doesn't handle them today. There's been discussion for years in Ubuntu and Debian about a field to define which architecture they should build on, but nothing's ever enventuated.
<paultag> wgrant: yeah, I recall those, I was pondering how to do this in dak (as well as some QA tooling I have)
<wgrant> paultag: Probably worth reviving such discussions now that Debian has a good reason for it too :)
<paultag> wgrant: totes :)
<wgrant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/217427
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 217427 in Launchpad itself "Please support arbitrary arch/buildd affinity for arch:all builds" [High,Triaged]
<paultag> wgrant: +subscribed, thanks
<wgrant> paultag: It's absolutely trivial to implement for us, we really just need to agree on a syntax.
<paultag> totally
<czajkowski> aloha
<paultag> czajkowski: yo!
<czajkowski> paultag: hey
<paultag> yo!
#launchpad 2013-11-05
<dhanu> I am contributing to Ubuntu . After adding a patch to my bug report , I saw comment
<dhanu> I am contributing to Ubuntu . After adding a patch to my bug report , I saw comment  that only  says ," tags: 	added: patch " . What does it mean ????
<cjwatson> That just means an automatic process noticed that you'd added a patch and tagged the bug accordingly.  You can ignore it
<dhanu> So does it mean my bug fix is over ?
<dhanu> I mean the review part of my bug fix ?
<cjwatson> dhanu: No
<cjwatson> dhanu: I suggest asking in #ubuntu-bugs if you want more specific help; this channel is just for the operation of the launchpad.net hosting software itself
<dhanu> cjwatson: Thank you for the help .
<sreedevi> Hello, I am trying to propose a merge in to another branch in launchpad from the terminal, They are asking for the keyring password, Could you please tell me what is a keyring password?
<dobey> sreedevi: the password for the keyring on your computer, where secret keys/passwords are stored
<sreedevi> dobey: Could you please explain?
<dobey> sreedevi: see the "Passwords & Keys" application
<sreedevi> dobey:Thank you
<leszek> hi
<leszek> When I would upload and let launchpad build vlc for an ppa and I would upload after this phonon-vlc backend and let it build on the same ppa would this be build against the vlc in my ppa or the one in ubuntu ?
<cjwatson> leszek: the one in your PPA
<leszek> cjwatson: ok thank you
<cjwatson> leszek: at least assuming that vlc has been built and published in your PPA at the point when the phonon-vlc build starts
<leszek> yeah I assumed that ;)
<leszek> bye and thanks
<zorael> Is it very common for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas to fail with a timeout error? I hardly ever get it to load. (or should this be directed to #ubuntu?)
<Azendale> If I've proposed a branch to fix a bug, is that fix commited or in progress?
<beuno> Azendale, usually, in progress
<beuno> fix committed is when it landed in trunk
<Azendale> beuno: ok, thanks! Just what I was looking to find out.
<dobey> Azendale: generally you should ask whoever maintains whatever it is you're proposing a change to, about how they use bug statuses, not here; as different projects may use some statuses differently
<Azendale> dobey: ok, thanks for the advice. I'll do that
#launchpad 2013-11-06
<sreedevi> Hello, I am trying to fix one minor bug in launchpad, I am trying to merge my branch in to another branch, but not able to propose a merge, option for proposing a merge is not seen , Can anyone please help me
<wgrant> sreedevi: Which branch are you trying to merge?
<sreedevi> The branch which I committed changes
<wgrant> What is the URL of that branch?
<sreedevi> https://code.launchpad.net/~nssreedevipillai/+junk/secure-delete.dev
<wgrant> sreedevi: +junk means it's not associated with a project or package, so you can't propose a merge.
<wgrant> sreedevi: Did you branch that from lp:ubuntu/secure-delete?
<wgrant> You'd normally push it to something like lp:~nssreedevipillai/ubuntu/trusty/secure-delete/bug-1245415 in that case
<sreedevi> wgrant:yes
<sreedevi> wgrant:Should I make new branch and push it
<wgrant> sreedevi: No need to make a new branch locally. Just push it to the new location, and delete the old one from Launchpad.
<sreedevi> wgrant:Ok, Thank you so much
<wgrant> np
<sreedevi> wgrant:I have committed changes in a branch named secure-delete.dev, so I should push that branch right?
<wgrant> sreedevi: You should push the branch to which you made changes, yes.
<sreedevi> wgrant: :)
<sreedevi> wgrant: I pushed my branch and linked it with my bug report, still option for proposing a merge is not seen :(
<sreedevi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/secure-delete/+bug/1245415
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1245415 in secure-delete (Ubuntu) "Spelling mistake in smem's page" [Undecided,In progress]
<wgrant> sreedevi: Oh, you've pushed it to a package named 'secure-delete.dev', which doesn't exist.
<sreedevi> Sorry, secure-delete is the branch I created locally other than the trunk
<sreedevi> I mean secure-delete.dev
<sreedevi> Sorry
<sreedevi> I created a branch secure-delete.dev locally and made changes int and committed.
<sreedevi> *in it
<wgrant> The branch URL is of the format lp:~USERNAME/DISTRO/SERIES/PACKAGE/BRANCHNAME.
<wgrant> DISTRO/SERIES/PACKAGE need to match; you can't make them up.
<wgrant> so, 'bzr push lp:~nssreedevipillai/ubuntu/trusty/secure-delete/bug-1245415'
<sreedevi> Ok
<sreedevi> I did it
<sreedevi> https://code.launchpad.net/~nssreedevipillai/ubuntu/trusty/secure-delete/bug-124541
<saiarcot895> I'm starting to see builds that just fail within 2-4 minutes, with no log or reason (https://launchpad.net/~saiarcot895/+archive/flightgear-edge/+build/5204935)
<wgrant> saiarcot895: Hm, maybe we have an upset builder, let me see.
<saiarcot895> Doing a rebuild causes the package to compile successfully
<sreedevi> wgrant:I got the "propose branch for merging" option, in that  they ask for reviewer, it's optional, Should I specify someone,Could you please help me with this
<saiarcot895> wgrant: Links to 3 other builds that had the same error http://paste.ubuntu.com/6370330/
<wgrant> sreedevi: http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-sponsorship.html should guide you through proposing a fix.
<sreedevi> wgrant:Thank you  :)
<TheLordOfTime> do the PPAs still bulid for Natty / Oneiric?
<TheLordOfTime> i know Maverick died out a while ago, but a while ago I saw natty and oneiric still "building"
<TheLordOfTime> even though they EOL'd
<dobey> TheLordOfTime: afaik they don't, no.
<TheLordOfTime> dobey: okay, that's what i suspected
<barry> hi folks, quick question.  is there any way for a project to *not* have a development focus branch?  lp/ubuntu-system-image did not have one until i set up an import of a git branch.  lp made that branch the dev focus, which i definitely did not want.  however now when i go back to the +edit page, i cannot remove dev focus, i can only switch it to a different branch
<dobey> barry: i don't think so, other than to not have any branches at all. or at least, once you set it, i don't think it can be unset, and setting up an import on a project that doesn't have a branch already probably defaults to the "this is the dev focuse" to being toggled on
<dobey> anyway, time to get lunch :)
<barry> dobey: yeah, seems that way.  i'm sure there's some db cell that could be cowboyed in if it was worth it ;)
#launchpad 2013-11-07
<jose> wgrant: ping
<sreedevi> Hello, I am working on a minor bug in launchpad, I submitted a proposal to merge my branch to the main branch. This is pending for review, Could anyone please help me with this?
<cjwatson> You're working on a project hosted on Launchpad, not on Launchpad itself
<cjwatson> So we can't help you here
<cjwatson> Try #ubuntu-motu
<cjwatson> Alternatively, you could just wait - it's already listed in the sponsorship queue at http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
<cjwatson> So it should be dealt with in not all that long
<sreedevi> cjwatson: Ok, Thank you
<sreedevi> cjwatson:I hope review will take time, right?
<cjwatson> It probably won't be immediate
<sreedevi> cjwatson:Ok
<sreedevi> cjwatson :)
<ibere_SP> hi, I'm a Lubuntu team member: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ibere-Fernandes . Our Team Leader of Communications left the team and he was supposed to hand the ownership of https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-comms to me. He gave no somebody else that's not even active at Launchpad. Can you help us solve this mistake, pls?
<ibere_SP> you can confirm the mistake by reading this thread: https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-comms/
<czajkowski> ibere_SP: you'll need to file a question on launchpad
<czajkowski> ibere_SP:  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion
<ibere_SP> czajkowski, ok. Thank you. How long do they take to reply? Our Communications launchpad account has been handled to a complete stranger.
<czajkowski> ibere_SP: it will be tomorrow as they are based in AU
<czajkowski> or possibly 4 hrs time if you're based in the UK
<czajkowski> timezones are messing with me this week
<ibere_SP> czajkowski, ouch... Thank you for you reply. I'm based in Brazil. Isn't there any other fast track?
<czajkowski> ibere_SP: has something been done to warrant the urgency?
<ibere_SP> czajkowski, we've tried to contact the mistaken owner  but we had no reply yet. The other members of Lubuntu-comms are trying to contact him/her too. There's a discussion about it in the public list: https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-comms/
<czajkowski> ibere_SP: ok well the 4 hr wait then is the best thing tbh. wgrant and StevenK will be on in a few hours
<ibere_SP> czajkowski, I've also contacted the previous lubuntu-comms Team Leader, but no reply either.
<czajkowski> file the question and it'll be taken care of
<czajkowski> ibere_SP: people dont always reply straight away.
<ibere_SP> czajkowski, ok. thank you.
<dobey> that doesn't sound urgent
<ibere_SP> czajkowski, true. thank you.
<dobey> annoying, but not a huge problem. it's not a private team or anything.
<czajkowski> dobey: ello
<dobey> hi czajkowski
<Legendario> hi, is it possible to use launchpad to make debian packages for debian?
<cjwatson> Not directly.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/188564
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 188564 in Launchpad itself "Build also packages for Debian in PPA's" [Low,Triaged]
<cjwatson> Of course you can host code in bzr branches on Launchpad that will be built for Debian
<lfaraone> that's hilarious, I was just grepping my channel archives for that exact bug :)
<cjwatson> lfaraone: firefox url bar -> "ppa debian" -> down arrow -> enter
<lfaraone> cjwatson: so, https://code.google.com/p/debppa/ ? :P
<cjwatson> shocking hosting of Debian facility on a non-free hosting service
 * cjwatson trolls gently
<lfaraone> "I thought SourceForge is open source?"
 * lfaraone was once told by a Googler that Google Code was basically a forked SF codebase
<cjwatson> quite an extensive fork I think ...
<cjwatson> it just amuses me how when LP's code was unavailable everyone was "oh I have PRINCIPLES I'm not hosting things there" and now it's all "rah rah github rah rah google code"
<lfaraone> cjwatson: but yeah, Debian-software-built-in-Launchpad is something my company would pay money for.
<lfaraone> or rather, debs-built-for-Debian-via-Launchpad
<cjwatson> if your company hasn't already told some kind of account managery person in Canonical then it probably should
<lfaraone> cjwatson: feel free to PM me an email.
<cjwatson> I'm not sure I have a suitable one
<cjwatson> was hoping you already had a support contract or something
<lfaraone> Hah. No, we're using Debian, but have customers who want to use Ubuntu. Hence the inquiry :)
<cjwatson> for the most part I am happy for the money-dealing-with parts of the company to remain a mystery to me ;-)
<cjwatson> I should see if I can track down the last internal thread I found about this, but it was years ago ... perhaps a longer-standing Launchpadder can remember better
<dobey> lfaraone: the e-mail on the commercial launchpad page is probably the best place to contact for that
<czajkowski> wgrant: ello
<wgrant> czajkowski: Hi
<czajkowski> all quiet on the southern front :)
<RAOF> Hm. Is there a way I can access the Launchpad API from client-side javascript? The naive approach runs into cross-site scripting limitations.
<wgrant> RAOF: No, that would be a bit of a CSRF hole; a browser won't permit it.
<RAOF> Is there any particular reason that the unauthenticated API couldn't have the "go to town" flag set?
<wgrant> We could potentially enable some kind of CORS on the OAuth domain.
<RAOF> Which is the basically the reverse of what I want, I think :)
<RAOF> My goal is to embed a âlatest version!â button that pulls the latest version data from my launchpad project page.
<wgrant> RAOF: How's that the reverse?
<RAOF> I wouldn't expect the clients to be OAuth'd?
<RAOF> Oh, I guess I could embed the credentials in the website source.
<wgrant> Ah, not quite.
 * RAOF is, as you might have guessed, not a domain expert here :)
<wgrant> api.launchpad.net requires OAuth, potentially anonymous OAuth
<wgrant> launchpad.net/api uses your Launchpad HTTP cookie.
<wgrant> It'd be safe to allow cross-origin requests to api.launchpad.net, because the presence of the user's cookie doesn't affect anything.
#launchpad 2013-11-08
<chilicuil> hello, I'd like to create a map (which country they're from) of the current members of a group in launchpad, where I could start?
#launchpad 2013-11-09
<shadeslayer> Launchpad seems down?
<shadeslayer> http://isup.me/launchpad.net
<eagles0513875> anyreason why LP is down and any other site such as the wiki etc
<Pici> eagles0513875: they're working on it
<eagles0513875> Pici: did the server explode lol
<eagles0513875> its not only launchpad even the wiki is down
<Pici> All I know is that Canonical is aware of the problem
<eagles0513875> ok :)
<eagles0513875> that would potentially mean uk main archive is down as well
<vadi> Is Launchpad unavailable for anyone else?
<DarkPlayer> vadi: yes
<vadi> okay
<vidplace7> yeah vadi, RIP launchpad
<vidplace7> it must be stored on the same server as the ubuntu community wiki
* xnox changed the topic of #launchpad to: LP is down, investigation pending
<vidplace7> https://dev.launchpad.net/ https://help.ubuntu.com/community/
* xnox changed the topic of #launchpad to: LP is down, investigation pending, other sites too. no other info yet.
<vadi> Given how add-apt-repository crashes if the connection times out, I can see a lot of error reports flooding in from this incident
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: LP IS DOWN due to a datacentre issue; being fixed | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<vidplace7> good luck xnox ;)
<vadi> Sounds like it is the hosting providers problem
<wgrant> We've had a power failure in one of our datacentres. Not entirely sure of the details yet.
<vidplace7> good to know it's not some massive DDoS :) hope it's resolved soon
<cr3> ah, topic answered my question. bbl :)
<xnox> "the incoming electrical supply is considered to be one of the most resilient available to any infrastructure within the UK"
<xnox> well, i guess everyone should just have a cup of tea and wait =)
<vadi> where'd you read that?
<xnox> http://www.globalswitch.com/locations/london-data-center/
<Fahrertuer> got an ETAon LP being back up and running?
<stgraber> no ETA, the DC lost power, someone is heading there now will be back as soon as possible
<Fahrertuer> THX. good luck with bringing it back online.
<cprofitt> stgraber: brings back memories for two weeks ago for me when my storage system had multiple disk failures...
<cprofitt> took me 8 hours to restore service, but no data was lost
<Fahrertuer> sounds like that recurring nightmare I have
<Fahrertuer> (although that refers to that messed up PBX system at work)
<pirret> hi..launchpad seems to be down
<pirret> unless it's just me
<pirret> ah sorry, topic..
<cprofitt> pirret: its ok... many people have been asking...
<czajkowski> please see the topic :)and subscribe to https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus
<julian____> Hi all. Is there a mirror
<pirret> argh
<pirret> still down :S
<pirret> bad datacenter
<pirret> just when i started to install new ubuntu box launchpad goes down, my luck
<pirret> oh but it is up now!
<pirret> no one updated twitter
<chilicuil> lol
<wgrant> It's sort of up :)
<wgrant> Some bits and pieces are still not quit working.
<wgrant> s/quit/quite/
<FLeiXiuS> PPA noooo
<pirret> mmh isee
<FLeiXiuS> i need ppa's!!!!
<FLeiXiuS> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<TheLordOfTime> wgrant: I take it from FLeiXiuS's statements that PPAs are still down?
<wgrant> TheLordOfTime: Yes, they're not quite back yet.
<czajkowski> if you keep poking it, it won't come back to life properly :p FACT :)
<TheLordOfTime> czajkowski: purely curious is all
<TheLordOfTime> because luckily i got what i needed from my PPAs *BEFORE* the datacenter broke xD
<czajkowski> sure sure
<TheLordOfTime> (people are emailing me asking why the nginx team's PPAs are not working though :/)
<TheLordOfTime> i assume still no ETA on fully operational?
<wgrant> Very Soonâ¢
 * TheLordOfTime didn't see anything on @launchpadstatus
<TheLordOfTime> wgrant: so basically, "No, not really"
<TheLordOfTime> :P
<czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: point them at lp status on twitter and to book mark it
<czajkowski> honestly when it's up it's up and everyone does tend to work that out pretty fast
<TheLordOfTime> heh
<vidplace7> so it's like 1/2 up
<vidplace7> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/138742143/winusb_1.0.11%2Braring1_amd64.deb for instance, wont download
<techplex> Is launchpad not working for more than me?
<McMah0n> see topic
<heraclitus> anyone else unable to connect to https://launchpad.net ?
<chilicuil> heraclitus: launchpad is down due to a datacenter issue
<heraclitus> ahh okay, thanks :)
<PJAMA> Ah, that's why I haven't been able to update elementary OS lately? Thanks!
<heraclitus> hope it gets fixed soon, who ever is working on it :)
<ioldanach> no eta, I presume?
<chilicuil> yep, no eta so far
<heraclitus> sorry to hear about the issues, never fun.
<ioldanach> ok.  friday night, and all, I'm sure everyone's doing their best
<PJAMA> We'll just have to wait until tomorrow to update. Goodnight Everyone.
<heraclitus> good night PJAMA
<phyphor> AH, guess the topic explains why I can't add certain PPAs!
 * phyphor slips out quietly
<coderpete> code.launchpad.net appears to be down. http://screencapture.objects.dreamhost.com/201311/08195134_7095.png
<esde> !topic
<ubot5> Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
 * coderpete was trying to download the latest stable duplicity tarball
<coderpete> anyone here that can help?
<wgrant> coderpete: See the topic. There's a power failure in one of our datacentres, and we're working to get things back up.
<Noskcaj> coderpete, all of launchpad is down, please read the topic
<esde> !topic | esde
<ubot5> esde, please see my private message
<coderpete> right.  thanks Noskcaj I'll check back in a bit.
<excalibr> launchpad is being ddosed?
<esde> !topic | excalibr
<ubot5> excalibr: Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
<wgrant> No, unless DDoSers managed to take out some of our power feeds :)
<esde> power issues
<excalibr> uhm
<Logan_> It looks like we're back in business.
<stgraber> not really
<stgraber> launchpad.net works but quite a bit of backend infrastructure doesn't
<stgraber> including a good chunk of the PPA infrastructure and Ubuntu's ftpmaster
<Logan_> Please disregard that, then. :P
<rickhull1> i can reach https://launchpad.net now  :)
<rickhull1> might wanna update https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus  ?
<esde> ppa still down
<dragon36> looks like ppa is still down
<wgrant> Codehosting, PPAs, the librarian and various other services are still down.
<TheLordOfTime> wgrant: i was just about to tweet to @launchpadstatus (not post, but send a tweet myself with the @ target) saying that some things seem partially up, perhaps someone should update @launchpadstatus about the partial-restoration of services?
<pdffs> there's really no point updating the status until all the backend services return
<pirret> what is taking so long :S
<rickhull1> imho, worth a status update to say that http is back, auth services are back, etc.
<rickhull1> personally, i care because openstack.org uses launchpad for auth
<rickhull1> so i would have liked to know, from statusupdate, that auth is back
<rickhull1> without polling stuff myself
<pirret> did zunami hit the datacenter or why ppa still down after 3 hours?
<TheLordOfTime> pirret: because it probably takes a while to bring a lot of backend services back up, you need to have patience
<wgrant> Electricity also helps :)
<wgrant> There's a misconfiguration in the power feeds to some of our cabinets, which means that our dual-feed supplies to some hosts aren't working with one of the feeds failed.
<wgrant> A few hosts are still down.
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: PPAs and codehosting still down due to a power failure; being fixed | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<PJAMA> PPA servers still down?
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: PPAs AND CODEHOSTING STILL DOWN due to a power failure; being fixed | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<stgraber> the buildd-manager needs a restart at least and it's not yet clear how many of the builders are reachable, so yeah, more urgent things to fix first
<jeffrey_f> Trying to add my private key to Launchpad.  Although I can find my PubKey on the hkp ubuntu server by email, I can't find it by fingerprint.  Any ideas?
<wgrant> jeffrey_f: Which fingerprint are you trying?
<jeffrey_f> 4C69 9D45 A24B 3BD0 2AF4  8BA0 6097 40B9 12A4 5CAB
<wgrant> And what's the email address?
<jeffrey_f> jflaker@gmail.com
<wgrant> jeffrey_f: I see that key when I search for 0x4C699D45A24B3BD02AF48BA0609740B912A45CAB
<wgrant> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x4C699D45A24B3BD02AF48BA0609740B912A45CAB&fingerprint=on
<jeffrey_f> Yes, but launchpad is saying it can't import the key
<jeffrey_f> any news?
<stgraber> the server in the critical path for GPG is booting up now
<jeffrey_f> OK
<wgrant> And PPAs and codehosting are mostly back.
<jeffrey_f> how long does that usually take, just curious
<wgrant> jeffrey_f: There's no "usually", unfortunately; we're routing power between cabinets to get the remaining servers re-powered.
<jeffrey_f> ah.  So I should try in the morning then?
<rickhull1> my guess is booting servers that have had power restored takes a few minutes.  verification, undoing previous triage things, re-establishing clusters, shared storage, discovering faults in less-than-critical-paths â these things can take hours
<jeffrey_f> Yep, I'll try in the AM.  Thanks!
<wgrant> There's only a couple of bits left still broken, but it's not clear how long those will take.
<jeffrey_f> ok.  Thanks for the help!
<arun> hi guys , I wanted to host my codes in launchpad , how can I do that ??
<arun_> hello guys , anyone there ., please help me for adding my codes in Launchpad !!!
<arun_> ajmitch: hello !!!
<StevenK> arun_: I suggest you read the topic, we can't help you right now, due to it.
<arun_> StevenK: oh sorry bro
<rickhull1> arun_: https://code.launchpad.net/     but there was a recent outage and not all services may be up
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<arun_> wgrant: good to hear
<arun_> rickhull1: so, how do a do ???
<arun_> rickhull1: please help me
<rickhull1> 1. now is a particularly bad time, because things may not be working normally
<rickhull1> 2. check the docs
<rickhull1> personally, i've never been involved in code hosting with launchpad
<rickhull1> arun_: are you familiar with github?
<arun_> rickhull1: yes , I have github repo , and I am wanting to translate my software into other languages !!!, so. please help me
<rickhull1> according to https://twitter.com/launchpadstatus  things should be working normally now
<rickhull1> arun_: ok, well the choice of hosting on launchpad or github has nothing to do with the software language
<arun_> rickhull1: I mean, I wanted to localize my software
<rickhull1> gotcha
<rickhull1> that seems like a completely separate problem from where to host your software
<arun_> rickhull1: yaa., the main thing is to localize or translate my software !!!
<rickhull1> it's a tough problem, for sure
<rickhull1> i don't see how hosting your code on launchpad versus anywhere else accomplishes that goal
<arun_> rickhull1: lol, so any ways for the localization
<rickhull1> i might be misunderstanding the power of launchpad code hosting, but i think it's something that needs to be worked out in the code, not the hosting
<wgrant> arun_: Have you read through https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject?
<wgrant> You don't have to use Launchpad Codehosting to use Launchpad Translations.
<wgrant> You can upload translation templates directly.
<wgrant> But you first need to have translation support in your code.
<arun_> wgrant: yaa, I have the pot file
<arun_> wgrant: so , whats the next ??
<wgrant> arun_: https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/ImportingTemplates
<arun_> wgrant: bro, I can't figure out there is no for pot , there is only git, bazaar, ...,etc
<wgrant> arun_: Where are you looking
<wgrant> ?
<arun_> wgrant: where u told
<wgrant> "or manually upload .pot files using the web interface. "
<wgrant> click the Translations tab on your project, then select a series. You'll see an option in the bottom right to upload a file directly.
<arun_> wgrant: bro manual synchronize?]
<wgrant> arun_: That's the one
<arun_> wgrant: ok , I am downloading that file from my git repo
<arun_> wgrant: I just uploaded but there is no data in the translations page inside my branch
<wgrant> arun_: Which project is this?
<arun_> launchpad.net/chitwanix/sagarmatha
<wgrant> arun_: I've approved the template import, so it should happen in a few minutes. You can see the status of your imports at https://translations.launchpad.net/chitwanix/sagarmatha/+imports
<arun_> wgrant: thank u very much, but the language I am going to translate into is Tharu not Nepali
<wgrant> arun_: Chitwania Tharu aka. 'the'?
<arun_> wgrant: I can't understand what u are saying
<wgrant> arun_: Tharu is a family of languages with several dialects, each with a distinct language code.
<wgrant> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/23 describes the process for adding a new language to Launchpad
<arun_> wgrant: og
<arun_> wgrant: brother, the lanuage is related to Nepali with the writing letters same as Nepali but the Name must be Tharu
<arun_> wgrant: so, we need to get verified for an ISO
<wgrant> arun_: There are already ISO 639-3 codes for several Tharu languages
<wgrant> See the bottom right of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharu_language
<arun_> wgrant: oh yaa, so, how can I get that , its Chitwania
<wgrant> So http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=the?
<arun_> wgrant: bro, then how do I add the language in launchpad??
<arun_> wgrant: should I ask in the answer page or what? please give me some idea
<wgrant> arun_: You'll need to ask a question on Launchpad Answers, including the language code and plural form information as described at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/23
<arun_> wgrant: ok
<excalibr> is it not possible to make your ppa only available to you?
<wgrant> excalibr: Private PPAs are a commercial feature.
<excalibr> oh i see. then what is that "publish" option in ppa
<excalibr> ppa page*
<wgrant> It's not useful to you unless you already know why you need to use it. It prevents the packages from being published to ppa.launchpad.net where apt can see them.
<wgrant> The PPA remains public on the launchpad.net web UI.
<arun_> wgrant: will be verified soon ?
<wgrant> arun_: You need to provide plural form information before we can set up the language. Have you read through https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/PluralForms?
<arun_> wgrant: I really didn't understand that , sorry, please help me !!!
<wgrant> arun_: What didn't you understand about that page?
<arun_> wgrant: the plural thing, 2 for English ?? what that means??
<wgrant> arun_: In English I say "0 apples, 1 apple, 2 apples, 3 apples, [...]". That means there's two plural forms: one for a single object, and one for every other number of objects.
<wgrant> We need to know the plural forms for a language so we know what to ask for when translating a plural string.
<arun_> wgrant: oh thanks bro
<arun_> wgrant: oh there are 2
<arun_> wgrant: bro, submitted
<eLBati> any known issue with MPs? https://code.launchpad.net/~agilebg/account-payment/adding_account_due_list_7/+merge/182330
<wgrant> eLBati: Sorry about that, it's a bit of remaining fallout from the datacentre power failure we suffered a few hours ago. Fixing.
<wgrant> Hopefully just a few minutes.
<eLBati> thanks wgrant
<wgrant> eLBati: Should work now.
<eLBati> wgrant, it does
<eLBati> tnx
<arrun> wgrant: hello again
<wgrant> arrun: Hi. I noticed that you provided the number of plural forms, but we also need to know the rules which determine the form to use.
<wgrant> For English the plural expression is 'n != 1', because one form is used for the case of 1 object, and the other form is used for every other case.
<arrun> wgrant: bro , its same as of the English
<arrun> wgrant: I c that, the thing is not been observed by the guys what I posted
<wgrant> arrun: I don't understand what you mean by that last bit.
<arrun> wgrant: I mean , the post is not been replied by the guys !!!
<wgrant> arrun: Things normally get replied to within a day or so, except on weekends. But I'm creating the language for you now.
<arrun> wgrant: oh Thank you very much !!!
<wgrant> arrun: Is it spoken in India, Nepal, or both?
<arrun> wgrant: in Nepal
<wgrant> And it's written left-to-right? From what I can see it uses Devanagari.
<arrun> wgrant: yup left to right
<wgrant> arrun: https://translations.launchpad.net/chitwanix/sagarmatha/+pots/sagarmatha/the/+translate
<wgrant> https://translations.launchpad.net/+languages/the
<arrun> wgrant: oh yaa, Thank You bro very very much
<wgrant> arrun: No worries. If you have any issues, ask here or on Launchpad Answers and we'll sort it out.
<arrun> wgrant: bro, but I am unable to add the strings  !!!
<wgrant> arrun: What happens when you try?
<arrun> there is writthen no translation yet
<wgrant> arrun: Ah, you have your translation permissions set to Restricted, which means that only members of the translation group for your language can make changes to the translation.
<arrun> wgrant: yaa , but I am the4 owner of it , isn't it
<wgrant> arrun: I'd suggest changing your policy to Open or Structured at https://translations.launchpad.net/chitwanix/+configure-translations
<wgrant> Open means that anybody can change any translation
<arrun> ok
<arrun> wgrant: but some freaks may change it to jpt also
<wgrant> Structured means that anyone can make suggestions, and any member of the relevant translation group can change the translation. If there's no translation group set up for that language, anyone can make changes.
<wgrant> I'd recommend Structured for now; you can change it later if you run into trouble.
<arrun> wgrant: bro, and can we be the translation group :)
<arrun> wallyworld_:  yes structured worked
<wgrant> arrun: If you want to use Restricted, you'll need to create an lp-l10n-the team and get it set up in the Launchpad Translators group, but I'd suggest continuing with Structured unless you see a problem.
<wgrant> It keeps the overhead low for new languages with few contributors.
<arrun> wgrant: ok bro
<arrun> wgrant: hello bro, I had a thing to do, how can I add a person for translation stuffs
<arrun> wgrant: are u there?
<nik90> hey can you guys help me merge a branch into a project.
<nik90> I just created a new project
<nik90> and I did a bzr init on a folder and commited files
<nik90> https://code.launchpad.net/~nik90/cliffhanger/trunk/+merge/194622
<nik90> now I am not sure how to merge this branch into the lp:cliffhanger branch
<nik90> I did bzr merge lp:~nik90/cliffhanger/trunk
<nik90> but I get a message "nothing to do"
<cjwatson> If you initialise a branch from scratch then you can't merge it into other branches
<cjwatson> If you wanted to merge it into lp:cliffhanger, then you should have started by "bzr branch lp:cliffhanger name-of-your-branch"
<cjwatson> Also, "bzr merge lp:~nik90/cliffhanger/trunk" operates on your current working tree, so if you're in lp:~nik90/cliffhanger/trunk already then it's a no-op
<nik90> my new project does not have a trunk branch yet
<nik90> how do I initiate it?
<cjwatson> lp:~nik90/cliffhanger/trunk-1 appears to exist, so push to it
<nik90> it does but it is incorrect since I dont want my username attached to it
<nik90> I like it to be just lp:cliffhanger
<nik90> or am I being completely wrong here
<cjwatson> It can't be *just* lp:cliffhanger, although that alias can certainly exist; there always has to be a canonical name of the form lp:~OWNER/PROJECT/BRANCH-NAME
<cjwatson> So you can either have OWNER there be nik90, or a team
<nik90> ah okay
<cjwatson> Have you read through https://help.launchpad.net/Code and the various pages following it?
<cjwatson> e.g. https://help.launchpad.net/Code/TeamBranches
<nik90> cjwatson: I am familiar with pushing/editing branches..just wasn't sure where to find documentation on initiating a new project
<cjwatson> Basically you just push a branch with your preferred ownership (yourself or a team) and some name like "trunk", and then set the development focus of the project to that branch.
<cjwatson> You don't want to merge.
<nik90> I understand better now. I created a team and push it to lp:~cliffhanger-dev/cliffhanger/trunk and set that as my developement trunk
<nik90> now I can merge to that branch if required
<cjwatson> But for the initial push you should just push to it, not merge.
<nik90> yeah
<nik90> so lets say I branch a new one by bzr branch lp:cliffhanger branch-name-here
<nik90> and I push it to lp:~nik90/cliffhanger/branch-name
<nik90> how do I merge this into trunk?
<nik90> after a review process/
<cjwatson> https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review
<cjwatson> which links to http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/bzr.dev/en/user-guide/merging_changes.html
<nik90> thnx
<cjwatson> It's easiest if you're working in a checkout (i.e. "bzr checkout lp:cliffhanger"), in which case it's just "bzr merge lp:~nik90/cliffhanger/branch-name", resolve any conflicts, commit with some appropriate message
<cjwatson> If you're in an unbound branch ("bzr branch lp:cliffhanger"), then you also have to "bzr push" back to lp:cliffhanger at the end
<nik90> this is a single person team now. So mergeing into trunk directly would be okay
<nik90> but I still want to create a review and then push to trunk where possible for best practices
<cjwatson> And the commands I just gave you are what you'd use for the post-merge review
<cjwatson> Er, the post-review merge
<nik90> ah okay.. so I checkout the trunk branch, merge the branch under review and then commit it
<nik90> I am used to jenkins bot doing the merge for me in the clock app :P
<nik90> that you forget the basics
<cjwatson> Right.
<ryanakca> Is there a way to stop receiving PPA related messages for teams you belong to?
<skellat> Is anybody around who can assist with [Launchpad Feedback #40137] perhaps?
<theleft> any reason why i should still be getting three signature failures on my ppas?
<theleft> three ppas that is
<theleft> the problem started when launchpad went down, they were all fine before that
<ozzy_> hello i need help, i can't create a package withing a PPA, the error is bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.BzrCommandError: Failed to apply quilt patches, anybody knows how to solve it?
#launchpad 2013-11-10
<tsimpson> (I know it's a weekend, but...) I've been waiting for a PPA build to be published for an hour now, is there something wrong with it?
<tsimpson> https://launchpad.net/~tsimpson/+archive/llvm+clang+cling/+build/5217146 is the build
<wgrant> tsimpson: There's a weekly cleanup cronjob that runs around this time and inhibits PPA publishing for the duration. It's taking longer than usual today due to an IO capacity issue.
<tsimpson> ok, as long as it'll publish eventually
<wgrant> It will :)
<tsimpson> thanks for looking
<arrun> wgrant: hello bro !!!
#launchpad 2014-11-04
<Actionparsnip> Hey guys
<Actionparsnip> The spam idiot is back on http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<Actionparsnip> Can you please give him a talking to / block him
<Actionparsnip> Or her
<dobey> why the heck are questions even enabled on ubuntu
<dobey> should just have answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu be a redirect to https://askubuntu.com/ instead
<mitya57> Hi, we have a spammer on Launchpad. Check bug 1389335, bug 1389345.
<ubot5> bug 1389335 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "sdad" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389335
<ubot5> bug 1389345 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "Juventus Olympiacos Diretta Streaming" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1389345
<teward> admins: please snipe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1389289 as spam
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1389289 in Ubuntu "ÙÙÙØ¹ ÙÙÙ ÙØ¨Ø§Ø±Ø§Ø© Ø±ÙØ§Ù ÙØ¯Ø±ÙØ¯ ÙÙÙÙØ±Ø¨ÙÙ 4-5-2014 Ø¨Ø« Ø­Ù ÙØ¨Ø§Ø´Ø±" [Undecided,New]
<brainwash> please delete bug 1389289 (spam
<teward> brainwash: i already reported it
<brainwash> teward: thanks :)
#launchpad 2014-11-05
<ActionParsnip> Can someone please clear the spam again :-(
<ActionParsnip> Thanks
<dpm> morning cjwatson, as per the conversation on RT #74952, would you have some time to review https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/lp-get-ul10nstats/distro-support/+merge/234349 ?
<aps> Hi. I am new to launchpad and trying to import a branch from github. It says "This branch has not been imported yet." Could someone please tell me how it would take? or do I need to manually import it?
<aps> how *long it would take
<aps> The Import Status says "Reviewed"
<wgrant> aps: It'll usually start in less than half an hour, depending on the current queue. It can take from seconds to a couple of days to import depending on how big the repository is.
<aps> wgrant: okay. Thank you.
<cjwatson> dpm: I'm on vacation / conference leave this week, remind me on Monday
<dpm> cjwatson, ok, sorry for the ping, enjoy, and talk to you next week!
<ehoover> wgrant: ping
<marcoceppi> how do you add a new distribution to lp?
<nickoe> marcoceppi: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/250943
<wgrant> ehoover: Hi
<ehoover> wgrant: howdy! we're considering renewing our commercial subscription for our OSS project and we were wondering if there's been any traction on fixing the problem where builds fail sporadically with 503 errors
<wgrant> ehoover: Hm, are those still happening? Do you have a link to a recent build?
<ehoover> wgrant: well, we reduced our daily builds to two versions to keep it from happening
<ehoover> i could spawn a build on all the available versions, that should do it ;)
<ehoover> ( spawned, we'll see how it goes ;) )
<ehoover> wgrant: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/189349515/buildlog.txt.gz
<ehoover> ( more generally: https://code.launchpad.net/~pipelight/+recipe/wine-compholio-daily )
<wgrant> ehoover: 502s used to be reasonably common, but I haven't ever seen 503s happen on any of the recipes I care about. There's no known issue there, so something is broken. Thanks for letting us know; I'll investigate.
<ehoover> wgrant: thanks, i thought i subscribed to a bug about this - let me see if i can find it...
<wgrant> ehoover: Hum, I'm pretty sure there's not one about 503s in recipes.
<wgrant> The .bzr bits of bazaar.launchpad.net are not known to return 503s ever.
<ehoover> i'm probably just mis-remembering then
<ehoover> yeah, i don't see any relevant bugs in my subscription list - let me poke slackner and see if he remembers better
<ehoover> wgrant: slackner thinks i'm possibly remembering https://bugs.launchpad.net/udd/+bug/718483
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 718483 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "should delay and retry on http 503 from librarian" [Medium,Triaged]
<wgrant> ehoover: That only affects package-import.ubuntu.com, though.
<ehoover> hmm
<ehoover> wgrant: should i open a new issue for this then?
<wgrant> ehoover: Please do.
<wgrant> I'm poking through logs to try to work out what's gone wrong.
<ehoover> kk, what component should i file against?
#launchpad 2014-11-06
<wgrant> launchpad
<ehoover> done: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1389909
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1389909 in Launchpad itself "Simultaneous recipe builds fail with 503 error" [Undecided,New]
<wgrant> ehoover: Thanks.
<ehoover> wgrant: np, thanks for looking into it!
<pmatulis> how do i remove a project series if there are translations associated?  i want to remove old releases from the serverguide project and i get the error
<pmatulis> "This Series cannot be deleted because it has translations"
<karni> Hi folks. I'm trying to subscribe myself to a mailing list that I myself created for a project team. LP is timing out on https://launchpad.net/~karni/+editemails with (Error ID: OOPS-8e19466fe4aab913c3b52b8f8107ed08) and honestly it's been like that for months now probably. This time, I need it work fork, is there anyone who could look into that?
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-8e19466fe4aab913c3b52b8f8107ed08
<karni> I'm a member of multitude of teams, but I bet there are people who are on 2-3 times more teams than I am, so I doubt that would be the problem.
<karni> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
#launchpad 2014-11-07
<jhobbs> Hi, I'd like for a branch to be made private, please: lp:~hashimoto-team/+junk/docs
<wgrant> jhobbs: Observe the top of the screen.
<wgrant> It is already private.
<jhobbs> yes
<jhobbs> ok
<jhobbs> i'm confused about when branches on private teams are private by default and when they aren't
<wgrant> A junk branch for a private team is private.
<wgrant> However, we discourage junk branches due to the confusion that can arise.
<wgrant> You can always determine the privacy of a branch by looking at the top right of the branch page.
<jhobbs> cool, thanks for your help
<MegaManSec> Hey guys.. Just wondering if it is possible to subscribe to the whole of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ ?
<MegaManSec> From what I've read it's possible, but I can't find the page.
<maxb> Hmm, I wonder if that's what's supposed to appear in the mysterious empty box 2nd in the right hand column on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<maxb> Though, I can't really see how subscribing to all bug changes in Ubuntu could be actually useful to anyone :-)
<maxb> Guesswork led me to find https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+subscriptions
<MegaManSec> https://i.imgur.com/sDfuTWl.png
<maxb> Yeah, I think that box is either failing to load or is being deliberately suppressed as a special case to Ubuntu
<MegaManSec> I don't know. I'm on Ubuntu though
<MegaManSec> "megamansec does not have permission to subscribe megamansec", when using
<MegaManSec> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+subscriptions
<wgrant> maxb: It is indeed deliberately suppressed for Ubuntu, because the chance that somebody actually wants to do it is roughly 0.
<wgrant> I doubt MegaManSec knew what they were asking.
#launchpad 2014-11-08
<Fudge> anyone tell me why this has not published yet? been a few hours already https://launchpad.net/~vinux/+archive/ubuntu/trusty-updates/+packages
<wgrant> Fudge: Should be happy again in 10-15 minutes.
<Fudge> thanks wgrant
<ActionParsnip> More spam on http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
<ActionParsnip> Please attend
<nik90> I realise today is a saturday and not many people will be available, but I hope someone is there to answer my question.
<nik90> I am uploading a command line script to my ppa and I got an email that it succeded
<nik90> however later I got an email that the build failed. The build log can be seen at https://launchpadlibrarian.net/189578515/buildlog_ubuntu-trusty-i386.ucs_0.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
<nik90> can anyone help me debug the issue?
<mapreri> nik90: you're build system is broken. you are installing things into /usr/local, and that place is not policy compliant (never known it caused ftbfs, though)
<nik90> mapreri: is it okay to put the script into /usr/bin instead?
<mapreri> nik90: yes. it should live there.
<nik90> mapreri: thnx. I am trying that now
#launchpad 2014-11-09
<cable023> how do I remove ppas from /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ ?
<cable023> I am getting the 404 Not Found error when I update my sources.list
<cable023> hello?
#launchpad 2015-11-02
<SusieQ> I would like to know if the speed issues accessing ppa.launchpad.net are affecting everyone?
<Laney> how long are packages supposed to remain in Packages for after they are deleted?
<Laney> I just got python-pexpect 4.0.1-0~ppa1 from ~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/ppa but didrocks apparently deleted it on 2015-10-19
<Laney> if https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages?field.name_filter=pexpect&field.status_filter=&field.series_filter= is right
<glen> hi. i have some automatic bzr->translations setup for a project
<glen> but i can not find place where it is configured
<glen> launchpad interface has always struck me as really complex and least documented
<glen> anyway, i've migrated to git, and i would like the automatic translatsions commits apepar in git repo from now on
<glen> the project i'm speaking of : https://code.launchpad.net/eventum
<glen> and the branch that is used for translations auto commit https://code.launchpad.net/~glen666/eventum/po
<cjwatson> we don't yet support automatic translation commits to git, unfortunately; it's one of the things on the backlog for full parity with bzr
<glen> can i do that somehow differently, like setup git->bzr pull and then do the translations thing?
<glen> ps: where is that translations commit configured, i can not find it anywhere logical i tried to look
<cjwatson> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/Exports#Committing_translations_to_a_Bazaar_branch
<cjwatson> I don't think you can sensibly do it by way of imports; you'd need bzr->git imports and LP doesn't do those automatically (that would be rather more work to implement than automatic translation commits!)
<cjwatson> a git->bzr import won't work because you can't commit directly to one of those
<glen> so, perhaps i just create emopty bzr repo containing only .pot
<glen> and manually (outside launchpad infra) commit that .pot once it changes
 * cjwatson updates the Exports page a bit
<cjwatson> I'm not sure what that would gain you
<cjwatson> you could cron something externally that does a translation export from LP and updates the relevant git branch with that
<cjwatson> and if you want to have LP auto-import translations as well, then for now, you could have LP maintain an automatic git->bzr import and import translations from that
<cjwatson> I don't see any benefit to having a pot-only bzr branch though
<glen> i see the benefit that don't have to merge the changes, .pot is changed rarely, whole whole repo more often
<glen> also i did have bzr2git script, but it broke at some point.
<glen> can i change old bzr repo to use git sync instead? how?
<glen> (that is different topic)
<cjwatson> but if you're doing commits externally anyway, no merging needs to be involved - just commit the translations directly
<cjwatson> I hope we'll have git-to-git imports relatively soon, but we haven't started on the necessary infrastructure yet
<glen> so, can i commit .pot update directly to https://code.launchpad.net/~glen666/eventum/po ?
<cjwatson> you can, I'm still not sure what you gain from that if you aren't actually using the bzr branch for code development, you might as well just upload it directly to LP
<glen> i can do scripting to bzr automatically, uploading directly to lp is manual work
<teward> i have a question.  how does automated duplicate detection work for bugs in the Ubuntu project on Launchpad?  Is there some signature that is used to detect some duplicates?
<cjwatson> teward: not implemented by Launchpad itself, apport or apport-duplicates or something like that does it
<teward> cjwatson: OK, so should I poke -devel ?
<cjwatson> sure
<Jack_> Hi
<Jack_> I'm trying to install a package called Zeal but getting the following error:
<Jack_> E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
<Jack_> I have tried:
<Jack_> $ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:zeal-developers/ppa $ sudo apt-get update
<cjwatson> Jack_: what Ubuntu release are you running?
<Jack_> 12.04
<Jack_> cjwatson:
<cjwatson> Jack_: That PPA only publishes packages for 14.04, 14.10, and 15.04.  We only maintain the hosting infrastructure, and it's up to PPA owners to decide what releases they want to support
<cjwatson> Jack_: https://launchpad.net/~zeal-developers has contact details
<Jack_> Oh I see, so I would probably need to build myself?
<cjwatson> Jack_: that or ask them to help, yes
<Jack_> OK, thank you cjwatson :)
<teward> the armhf ppa builders are still virtualized right?  Or are they physical yet?
<cjwatson> teward: you have that one backwards, sort of
<cjwatson> teward: current state: armhf builds for the Ubuntu primary archive and for certain privileged PPAs run on unsandboxed physical hardware; armhf builds for PPAs run on x86 systems using qemu-user-static
<cjwatson> teward: we're part-way through setting up a new system in which all arm64 and armhf builds will be virtualised on arm64 hardware
<__marco> Hello. Times ago I built a package. Now I would like to update that package but I don't know how
<__marco> I downloaded the source (apt-get source blabla), made the modifications, updated the changelog and uploaded the .changes file again (debuild -S -sd)
<__marco> but the package is not showed and the builds not launched
<dobey> source packages must be signed with a valid gpg key that matches the one configured for your launchpad account
<dobey> otherwise you will not get an e-mail about the upload being accepted or not, and it will not appear in the PPA
<__marco> dobey: can I update a key in the keyserver?
<__marco> just to extend the expire time
<__marco> in the keyserver or in launchpad (it says that the key is already imported)
<tumbleweed> yes you can
<dobey> you have to update the keyserver, yes
<__marco> I updated the key in the keyserver but I don't know how to import the key again in launchpad
<__marco> or maybe I don't need it
<dobey> you don't i don't think. launchpad just has the fingerprint
<__marco> I try
<__marco> Successfully uploaded packages... but I cannot see them in the ppa
<__marco> sorry... I did not complete the activation procedure
<__marco> dobey: tumbleweed thanks a lot. It worked
<__marco> dinner time
<__marco> bye
<teward> remind me how I make a branch of my own that's based off another group's branch so that I can propose a merge request?
 * teward forgot :/
<teward> or rather, how to push my 'modified' branch to LP
<dobey> bzr push lp:~teward/project/branch
<teward> thank you
#launchpad 2015-11-03
<Laney> do devirt PPAs get a score bump? or the ~ci-train-ppa-service ones?
<cjwatson> In [1]: set(archive.relative_build_score for archive in lp.people['ci-train-ppa-service'].ppas if not archive.name.startswith('staging-'))
<cjwatson> Out[1]: {1500}
<cjwatson> Laney: ^-
<cjwatson> Laney: for others, it depends
<Laney> cjwatson: Ah, thanks, I didn't know about the relative_build_score
<Laney> In [1]: lp.distributions['ubuntu'].main_archive.relative_build_score
<Laney> Out[1]: 0
<Laney> I suppose it's relative to this archive. :)
<cjwatson> relative to the base score described by https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/BuildScores
<JoBbZ> hey... I forgot my launchpad password.  When I have it send me the email to change the password, I go through all the steps (enter the code, put in my new password, submit), it then comes back with an error
<JoBbZ> if I have a new email sent, and follow the link... same problem
<JoBbZ> i.e., it's currently impossible to change passwords..
<cjwatson> JoBbZ: that's actually a separate system that the Launchpad developers don't maintain, for all that it's in the launchpad.net domain.  #canonical-sysadmin may be able to help you out
<JoBbZ> thanks!
#launchpad 2015-11-04
<Laney> Is bos01 having a sad or something?
<cjwatson> Laney: apparently nova-compute had segfaulted on several ppc64el compute nodes - IS has recovered it
<Laney> cjwatson: Indeed, seems that the instances are picking up builds again, thanks
<__marco> Good afternoon (UTC+1). I recreated a qemu package but the ppa page says always that a new version is available
<__marco> 2.0.0+dfsg-2ubuntu1.19 vs 2.0.0+dfsg-2ubuntu1.20
<__marco> the *ubuntu1.19 is the latest relased
<cjwatson> __marco: Yes, it's currently not pocket-aware so it doesn't distinguish 2.0.0+dfsg-2ubuntu1.19 in -updates from 2.0.0+dfsg-2ubuntu1.20 in -proposed
<cjwatson> I think it's still worth knowing that there's a newer version on its way though
<cjwatson> Depends what you're doing
<dobey> you should also use nextver~myppa1 instead of just nextver, for ppa builds, generally
<__marco> dobey: https://launchpad.net/~marco-giusti/+archive/ubuntu/qemu I think I already do
<__marco> 2.0.0+dfsg-2ubuntu1.19vde1
<dobey> __marco: no, that's current version plus appended string. should use 1.20~vde1 there instead (but that is still older than 1.20)
<__marco> cjwatson: Yes, I am definitely interested in new versions. Is there a notify mechanism?
<cjwatson> __marco: Not directly in Launchpad; the best you can do that I can think of is subscribe to trusty-changes@lists.ubuntu.com and filter.
<__marco> dobey: I am following https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/BuildingASourcePackage#versioning but I did not yet explored the Ubuntu packaging guide
<cjwatson> dobey: That depends on semantics.  Neither is objectively better in all cases.
<__marco> cjwatson: no problems. I did not aware of it
<cjwatson> backport of 1.20 => 1.20~<something>, 1.19 plus extra patches => 1.19<something> or 1.19+<something>
<__marco> anyway, thanks both
<dobey> well, 1.19vde1 conflicts with the possibility of an update in ubuntu being 1.19.1 for example
<__marco> it is ubuntu1.19
<__marco> I don't think will be a ubuntu1.19.1 even
<__marco> ever*
<dobey> in this specific case perhaps not, but i'm talking about the general case
<cjwatson> dobey: no, it doesn't
<cjwatson> $ dpkg --compare-versions 1.19vde1 lt 1.19.1; echo $?
<cjwatson> 0
<cjwatson> if that were a problem then Ubuntu's "append ubuntu1 etc." versioning scheme would be broken relative to Debian in a way that it is not
<dobey> oh
<ricotz> hello, is it intended that one can enable support for ppc64el?
<ricotz> ... for personal PPAs
<Laney> ricotz: http://blog.launchpad.net/ppa/ppas-for-ppc64el <- yes
<ricotz> Laney, ah, ok
<ki7mt> Hello, does Launchpad support PPC packages?
<ki7mt> for PPA's
<wgrant> ki7mt: ppc64el, but not 32-bit powerpc yet.
<wgrant> Hopefully soon.
<cjwatson> ki7mt: I went into some detail on http://blog.launchpad.net/ppa/ppas-for-ppc64el about what the blockers are
<ki7mt> Hi guys, ok, thanks. I had someone ask me about ppc64 package support, and to be honest, ppc is a bit out of my Wheelhouse.
<wgrant> ki7mt: ppc64el is easy, just hit "Change details" on your PPA. Ubuntu doesn't support plain ppc64, and LP doesn't support 32-bit powerpc PPAs yet.
<ki7mt> wgrant, Would ppc64el  work with: [ uname -r = 4.2.0-16-powerpc64-smp ] boxe, it's G5 iMac running Ubuntu-Mate I believe.
<wgrant> ki7mt: That's 32-bit powerpc (just with a 64-bit kernel), which we don't have PPA support for yet.
<ki7mt> wgrant, Ok, thanks for the help.
<ki7mt> wgrant, If I enable the ppc64el under "Change Details", do I need to bump the PPA version to generate the package?
<wgrant> ki7mt: Builds won't automatically be created. You can either upload a new version or copy the package over itself to create the new builds.
<ki7mt> wgrant, ok, thanks.
#launchpad 2015-11-05
<ricotz> hi, is it possible to import/export translations from/to git?
<ricotz> while the git repo(s) is located on launchpad
<dobey> not yet i think
<ricotz> I see
<dobey> someone else was asking about that the other day. i think cjwatson said it's being worked on, or is on the list of to be worked on, though
<cjwatson> it's somewhere on the backlog but not currently scheduled
<ricotz> alright, looking forward to it then
<commandoline> I'm interested in that too, so I opened a bug report on it some time ago. Might want to click 'this affects me too': https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1473712
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1473712 in Launchpad itself "Import translations from & export them to git repos" [High,Triaged]
#launchpad 2015-11-06
<george_e> Is there a problem with the amd64/i386 builders?
<george_e> They seem to have become stuck.
<george_e> Oh... things seem to be moving again.
#launchpad 2015-11-07
<adam8157> hello, which room is to contact canonical IS team?
<adam8157> also I just sent a mail to feedback@launchpad.net, could anyone take a look?
<samson_uo> Hi. I'm trying to upload my first PPA. Unfortunately, I had a bad setting in ~/.dput.cf. I fixed that, but now dput is saying the package has already been uploaded. How do I fix this?
<samson_uo> looks like 'dput -f' is working, if ineffiecient.
<samson-uo> Hi, how do I debug/resolve errors with the builldd's fail to upload the resulting debs?
<wgrant> samson-uo: What does the upload log say?
<samson-uo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/13164562/ being the email that launchpad sent me.
<samson-uo> "Uploading build 20151107-223202-PACKAGEBUILD-8275074 failed."
<samson-uo> and thats it
<samson-uo> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/65900 doesn't have anything helpful to add
<wgrant> There's more detail in the upload log linked from https://launchpad.net/~samson-uo/+archive/ubuntu/trim-disable-kernel/+build/8275074
<wgrant> INFO Unable to find source publication linux/4.2.0-16.19 in wily
<wgrant> Did you delete the package or upload a new one before that build finished?
<wgrant> Ah, no.
<wgrant> Your version is bad.
<samson-uo> which bit?
<wgrant> The kernel build system is a bit special; you can't just append things to the version and hope it works.
<wgrant> It produced binaries with version 4.2.0-16.19.
<samson-uo> hrm
<wgrant> Are you aware of the debian/ vs debian.master/ weirdness that the kernel packaging uses?
<samson-uo> the kernel wiki specifically mentioned not to hack the makefile and append to LOCAL_VERSION
<wgrant> Which page were you looking at?
<samson-uo> saw it, but am not aware of the ramifications
<samson-uo> is appending to LOCAL_VERSION actually the right method?
<samson-uo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel: NOTE: do not attempt to use CONFIG_LOCALVERSION as this _will_ break the build.
<samson-uo> oh, but now I see it says to edit debian.master/changelog and not debian/changelog, which dch changes by default.
<wgrant> Right.
<samson-uo> what's required to set a custom version for the kernel? is editing the top of debian.master/changelog sufficient?
<wgrant> The things to watch out for with the linux packaging are debian.master and the ABI check.
<wgrant> On the rare occasion that I need a custom kernel, I hack around the latter by replacing the latest changelog entry, rather than adding a new one.
<wgrant> I don't know if there's a better method.
<samson-uo> isn't that the mistake I made here, which caused the resulting deb to not actually have a new version number?
<wgrant> Your mistake here was ignoring debian.master
<wgrant> The build regenerates debian/changelog from debian.master/changelog, so it produced binaries based on the old version.
<samson-uo> ah, so my upload failed because the changelog was no different from the released version
<wgrant> Right. The binaries said they were for the official version, which didn't exist in your PPA.
<samson-uo> wgrant: got distracted with other stuff, but manged to get an updated version building. I'll know in 3ish hours if that worked. Thanks! :)
#launchpad 2015-11-08
<samson-uo> If I have several versions I'd like people to try, is it better to put them in one PPA or have multiple PPAs?
<wgrant> samson-uo: Each PPA can only publish a single version of a particular package in each series.
<samson-uo> ah
#launchpad 2016-11-07
<cpaelzer> hi, anybody seeing the magic behing bug 1628275 and why I can neither assign nor even nominate a Xenial bug task on it?
<ubot5`> bug 1628275 in clamav (Ubuntu) "ClamAV-clamd av-scanner FAILED: CODE(0x36ab6c8) unexpected , output="/var/lib/amavis/tmp/amavis-20160923T095247-01779-3L04SPou/parts: lstat() failed: Permission denied." [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1628275
<rbasak> cpaelzer: do you have the wrong task highlighted? What does your URL bar say? You need https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/+bug/1628275
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1628275 in clamav (Ubuntu) "ClamAV-clamd av-scanner FAILED: CODE(0x36ab6c8) unexpected , output="/var/lib/amavis/tmp/amavis-20160923T095247-01779-3L04SPou/parts: lstat() failed: Permission denied." [Medium,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> rbasak: thats it
<cpaelzer> rbasak: the last think I did before was adding the debbug which auto highlighted it
<cpaelzer> thanks for clarifying
<rbasak> You're welcome! AFAIK, it's a longstanding Launchpad UX bug.
<rbasak> But affects only developers who work around, so I guess it isn't that important in the grand scheme of things except that every new developer has to hit it once :)
<cpaelzer> the bad part is I remember hitting it once about half a year ago
<cpaelzer> so lets change "has to hit once" to "has to hit often enough to remember the workaround" :-)
<rbasak> :-)
<clivejo> cjwatson: may I PM you?
<cjwatson> clivejo: No need to ask.
#launchpad 2016-11-08
<mwhudson> is it my imagination or is the ppa publisher running much faster than it used to?
<cjwatson> mwhudson: Probably not your imagination; William did a big data optimisation pass recently.
<mwhudson> well hooray for that
<mwhudson> cjwatson: also go to sleep!
<cjwatson> That would be lovely.
<cjwatson> Sadly physiology.
<wgrant> mwhudson: Publish latency is usually below 10 minutes now, whereas before October it was frequently >40 minutes. Various bits of optimisation gave fairly impressive results.
<mwhudson> wgrant: is it better for the archive too, or just ppas?
<mwhudson> but still >10 min publisher latency for ppas is awesome
<mwhudson> er *<10 min, obviously
<wgrant> mwhudson: The Ubuntu primary archive is still slow, because a-f on an Ubuntu-sizedÂ suite takes >20min
<mwhudson> wgrant: ack
<mwhudson> wgrant: assuming it doesn't OOM the machine :)
<wgrant> mwhudson: That wasn't a-f!
<wgrant> a-f was a victim.
<wgrant> Possibly the only time ever that a-f has been innocent of anything, but, well.
<mwhudson> well yes, i guess so :)
<mwhudson> wgrant: is there much that could be done to speed a-f up? i presume it's a pile of perl
<mwhudson> huh no, apparently not
<acheronuk> wgrant: I noticed that better publishing time, and very much appreciate the work that went in to to that by people :)
<acheronuk> wgrant: Can the size our CI ppa be bumped a bit please? https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/unstable/+packages
<acheronuk> We now do 3 releases on that, and additional Qt etc required for that has just tipped it over the limit by the looks of things
<wgrant> acheronuk: Doubled.
<acheronuk> wgrant: Thank you :)
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Builds delayed for hardware upgrades | Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
* wgrant changed the topic of #launchpad to: Launchpad is an open source project: https://dev.launchpad.net/ | This channel is logged: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ | User Guide: https://help.launchpad.net/ | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<marcoceppi> wgrant: hey, we also need a PPA size increase for ppa:juju/stable, we've run out of space :(
<cjwatson> marcoceppi: Doubled, but do you actually need to keep e.g. packages for quantal?
<marcoceppi> cjwatson: probably not, I was planning to go through and clean up everything not trusty, xenial, yakkety, z
<marcoceppi> cjwatson: thanks though
<cjwatson> Maybe precise too ...
<cjwatson> (I mean, maybe keep precise.  It's not EOL yet)
<marcoceppi> ah, yes
#launchpad 2016-11-09
<caribou> Hi, is this channel a good place to ask questions about LP's API ?
<cjwatson> caribou: sure
<caribou> cjwatson: hey good morning
<cjwatson> I'm not so sure about that
<cjwatson> but go ahead
<caribou> I'm trying to build a query to get all bugs that have a specific tag
<caribou> if I use searchTasks, it doesn't seem to get some specific tags; is there a method on the bugs collection that would let me do that ?
<caribou> looks like the tag I'm querying is attached to the bug,and not a specific task
<cjwatson> Tags are always on bugs, not tasks, but you always search for tasks.
<cjwatson> Do you have an example?
<caribou> sure
<caribou> cjwatson: ubuntu being distributions['ubuntu'], tasks = ubuntu.searchTasks(tags='sts', order_by=['id'], created_since='2016-01-01')
<caribou> will return many bugs
<cjwatson> when you said "it doesn't seem to get some specific tags", is it possible that you meant "it doesn't seem to get some specific tasks"?
<caribou> if you look at launchpad.bugs[1640382].tags, sts is there but this bug is not returned by the searchTasks
<caribou> and yes, that's what I meant, but if I search on 'sts-sru', it returns nothing even if I know that there are 41 bugs with that tag
<caribou> I'm sure that the LP API can make my life much simpler in many cases, I just want to get my head around it correctly
<longsleep> Hey folks, does launchpad have trouble with taking updates? I uploaded a package successfully but no email about the status and no entry on the web page of the ppa
<cjwatson> caribou: It's related to the fact that the non-series-linked task there is Invalid; will need to wake up further and see if there's a reasonable way to avoid that
<longsleep> ah, never mind no it reacted - seems it took just a bit longer than normal
<cjwatson> caribou: though one easy workaround if you only care about specific series is to start from lp.load('/ubuntu/trusty') instead
<cjwatson> longsleep: We're in the middle of a database update at the moment, which entails stopping some things for a bit
<caribou> cjwatson: well, I wanted to break them down by series to that might do the trick
<caribou> cjwatson: thanks!
<longsleep> cjwatson: ah ok - thanks - seems to work fine again now
<cjwatson> caribou: Right, maybe that's sufficient then.
<caribou> cjwatson: btw, I haven't been able to get my query working. It fails even with bugs which are not Invalid
 * smoser is happy launchpad is now linking bugs based on LP: # in git commit messages!
<smoser> thanks! ie https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/310432 magically linked
<cjwatson> caribou: Huh, I did test that it returned that qemu bug.
<cjwatson> smoser: yw
<caribou> cjwatson: maybe I didn't use the proper syntax; would you mind pasting your syntax somewhere?
<cpaelzer> smoser: yeah while I like the reverse link from the bug more I totally appreciate the feature like on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dovecot/+bug/1524526
<ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1524526 in dovecot (Ubuntu Xenial) "Crashes with undefined symbol" [High,Fix released]
<cpaelzer> lp-team ++
<cjwatson> caribou: lp.load('/ubuntu/trusty').searchTasks(tags='sts', order_by=['id'], created_since='2016-01-01')
<caribou> cjwatson: thanks!
<cjwatson> you can use lp.distributions['ubuntu'].getSeries(name_or_version='trusty') instead if you prefer to step through rather than hardcoding the URL and using lp.load
<cjwatson> but I was being lazy
<smoser> cpaelzer, yeah, i agree its more useful for the bug to get a reference to the mp, but i kind of assumed that was a given.  i just assumed 'link' was two way.
<cjwatson> It is indeed.
<caribou> cjwatson: Epilogue - my query will work only if I append version='devel' to the login statement
<cjwatson> caribou: Ah, of course.
<cjwatson> caribou: You basically always want to use devel anyway.
<caribou> cjwatson: yeah, just found out by reading the launchpad help example :-/
<caribou> cjwatson: anyway, thanks again for your help
<jderose> Hello! There's a ~system76 user on Launchpad that has zero activity. This account was created by someone outside the company in 2009. Would it be possible to have this account transfered to System76 ownership?
<cjwatson> jderose: If we did it it would more be a matter of renaming that account in order that you could claim the name, and we'd want some kind of traceability.  Could you please open a ticket at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion ?
<jderose> cjwatson: can do, thank you!
<jderose> cjwatson: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/403931 Thanks again!
#launchpad 2016-11-10
<posi>  I can't seem to create a project in launchpad it bugs me over and over again about duplicate project warning but there's no duplicate project
<cjwatson> posi: What project name are you trying to use?
<posi> brave
<posi> http://www.launchpad.com/brave
<cjwatson> Err, launchpad.com isn't us
<posi> err
<posi> woops
<posi> .net right?
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/
<posi> i mean .net
<posi> sorry
<posi> https://launchpad.net/brave
<cjwatson> When I try to register "brave" from https://launchpad.net/projects/+new, I do get the "Check for duplicate project" page, but there's a "No, this is a new project" button which works
<posi> cjwatson: when i click that it takes me back through
<posi> aahh
<posi> when i go to register the team
<posi> brave is already in use by another person or team.
<cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/~brave is in use, yes, but https://launchpad.net/brave isn't
<cjwatson> So you can register the project but you'll need to pick a different name for the team; lots of people just suffix "-team" for instance
#launchpad 2017-11-06
<oSoMoN> hi all
<oSoMoN> I had a libreoffice build going in a PPA of mine, which I saw failing towards the end of the build due to a unit test failure, and when IÂ went back to it to get the full log IÂ saw that the build had just been restarted under my feet
<oSoMoN> how is that possible?
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: Can happen if your build crashes the builder.
<oSoMoN> cjwatson, IÂ guess in that case there's no way to recover the build log until the builder crashed, right?
<cjwatson> Correct.
<oSoMoN> right, so IÂ guess it makes sense to trigger a new build
<oSoMoN> it's kind of a pain for libreoffice and similar packages that take forever to build though
<cjwatson> Such is life, I'm afraid.
<oSoMoN> fair enough
<oSoMoN> thanks for the explanation!
<cjwatson> (For completeness, it can also happen if LP loses connectivity to the builder for long enough, or some other similar issue.)
<rbasak> I'm expecting lp.git_repositories.getByPath to be callable, but instead I get a KeyError: http://paste.ubuntu.com/25904265/
<rbasak> What am I missing?
<rbasak> Using python3-launchpadlib    1.10.3-3ubuntu0.1
<rbasak> On Xenial.
<rbasak> len(lp.git_repositories) is 0, and next(iter()) on it gives me an immediate StopIteration.
<rbasak> len(lp.distributions) says 37, so presumably something works.
<rbasak> My paste is wrong. It was "import launchpadlib.launchpad" not just "import launchpadlib".
<rbasak> (but I still have the problem)
<rbasak> I think I figured it out.
<rbasak> version='devel'. Not just 'devel'.
<rbasak> nacc: ^
<rbasak> (FYI)
<nacc> rbasak: ah sure
<cjwatson> Yep.  (Also, the reason len(lp.git_repositories) is 0 is that iterating over all Git repositories in LP isn't a thing we consider sensible to do on the webservice, but the collection has to exist as a place for all-Git-repositories-related methods to live.)
<nacc> cjwatson: is there a sensible way for me to go from a user or team to all git repositories for that user/team? Or do I need to do an iteration over all the git repositories? In essence, I want to iterate the list of current usd-import-team git repositories so I can see what source packages are already imported and determine what their default git repo s
<cjwatson> We could export something for that if needed, although we might want to come up with something more targeted; iterating over 20k+ or whatever entries isn't going to be particularly quick.
<nacc> rbasak: --^ maybe we're thinking about it wrong, though; given that we have the phasing constants, whitelist and blacklist available, I can figure out the list of source packages we 'expect' to ahve imported currently (in theory, this is a one-time operation anyways) and we can iterate any of those with usd-import-team repositories?
<Saviq> is it possible with launchpadlib to find if a person is an indirect member of a team? I can only see https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#team_membership mentions a ParticipationTable, but can't find it anywhere else
<Saviq> also found mention of "IPerson.inTeam", but bug #377579 :/
<ubot5> bug 377579 in Launchpad itself "Expose IPerson.inTeam via launchpad REST API" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/377579
<Saviq> or do we have a better way to check if someone's signed the CLA, or is employed by Canonical, to check if their contributions can be appropriated correctly? maybe a webservice of some kind?
<cjwatson> The best way I can think of OTTOMH (inefficient but I believe it works) is to get the target team and iterate over its .participants
<cjwatson> I'm not totally sure why the answer to that bug isn't to just put the method on the team rather than the participant, though
<cjwatson> I guess that wouldn't help with private subteams
#launchpad 2017-11-07
<rbasak> nacc: yeah, I think cjwatson has a point, and the way you suggest makes sense. Perhaps it should be part of the phasing script - operate in either import mode or change alias mode? Though perhaps that'll be painful because in import mode you're focused on new publications and are already filtering on that?
<cybrNaut> i'm familiar with github, where if I want to make a small change to someones project I fork it, do a "git clone", make the change, git commit, git push, then make a pull request.  This is my first encounter with launchpad, and I don't see a fork button.  Is "import a branch" what I need?  Is it the same process as github?
<cybrNaut> i don't know what Bazaar is, but judging from https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Git i have a choice between Bazaar and git, correct?
<rbasak> The process is roughly the same.
<rbasak> You clone, push, and then make a pull request.
<rbasak> However there is no explicit "fork" action. You just push to your own space and Launchpad knows that it's a fork.
<rbasak> "pull request" -> "merge proposal"
<cybrNaut> sounds reasonable
<cybrNaut> fatal: repository 'https://code.launchpad.net/~duplicity-team/duplicity/+git/' not found
<cybrNaut> fatal: repository 'https://code.launchpad.net/duplicity/' not found
<cybrNaut> the help page says a default repository will be used, but it's not finding one
<cybrNaut> those errors are from a "git clone.." cmd
<rbasak> Looks like they use bzr, not git.
<cybrNaut> oh shit, i didn't know they weren't interoperable.  So if I want to contribute to duplicity, i have to install and study some Bazaar tool?
<rbasak> If duplicity uses bzr, then that's the primary answer, yes. There are some tools (like git-remote-bzr?) that try to bridge the gap. Which VCS to use is a per-repository choice on Launchpad.
<bdrung_work> Hi, is there a way to convert https://launchpad.net/~linux-rdma into a Lanuchpad group?
<cjwatson> bdrung_work: since it's just an autocreated person, we could rename it out of the way if you need to create a team?
<cjwatson> bdrung_work: please file a ticket on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion if so
<bdrung_work> cjwatson, thanks. i created https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/660443
<nacc> cjwatson: when you get a moment, if you could read my comments in LP: #1730734, I believe it shows a potential problem with the importer changes we recently did. Maybe not serious, but just want to get your opinion
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1730734 in usd-importer "importer: having only one import record for every publish means the commit date is no longer identical to the publishing date" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1730734
#launchpad 2017-11-08
<rbasak> If we want to store the launchpadlib self_link in a git commit log message as metadata in the usual git RFC822-style header style (eg. "Signed-off-by: ..."), what would be an appropriate name to use for the key?
<rbasak> Eg. Launchpad-API-URL? Launchpad-URL? Launchpadlib-URL?
<wgrant> rbasak: The self link for what sort of object?
<wgrant> A commit doesn't have a launchpadlib URL -- let alone a commit that doesn't exist yet.
<rbasak> This is where we want to link our "imported" git commit to the Launchpad object it came from
<rbasak> So Launchpad -> our importer -> git commit
<rbasak> Where we'd like to track what Launchpad object our git commit came from.
<rbasak> Also...I didn't expect a reply for a few hours at least! :)
<wgrant> rbasak: It's not quite EOD for me :)
<wgrant> rbasak: But presumably it's some type of object
<wgrant> eg. Launchpad-Source-Package-Release
<nacc> wgrant: source pacakge publishing history record
<nacc> wgrant: rbasak: I think (per the web reference) we should store str(spph_object)
<nacc> https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib "Persistent referencnes to Launchpad objects"
<nacc> so I think we could do Launchpad-Source-Package-Publishing-Record:
<nacc> i'm not fussed on URL, as it's really just storing a persistent identifier of an object, which happens to be a URL right nnow
<nacc> wgrant: for context, LP: #1730734, if you want to read
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1730734 in usd-importer "importer: having only one import record for every publish means the commit date is no longer identical to the publishing date" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1730734
 * nacc is past EOD, just checking in
 * rbasak is at BOD :)
<wgrant> nacc: That seems weird, since what happens when the package gets copied?
<wgrant> That probably won't create a new commit.
<rbasak> Yeah that's what I was pondering
<rbasak> I had intended to discuss that with nacc later :)
<rbasak> I'm still pondering the general problem.
<wgrant> It is complicated.
<wgrant> The SPPH in theory has no impact on the commits
<wgrant> Just the refs
<wgrant> Which is messy since refs don't really have history
<rbasak> OTOH, we watch the SPPH to drive the imports
<wgrant> Sure, it clearly triggers the imports
<wgrant> But the commit can't be the only place you record that, since it can change without the commit changing.
<rbasak> Currently we don't record the SPPH, but that's where the problem is AIUI.
<rbasak> The first time we see a particular version, we add it into our commit graph.
<rbasak> And the SPPH entries drive our refs moving around.
<rbasak> But we don't know where to pick up from next time, and we'd prefer to not store any additional state.
<rbasak> I think nacc was suggesting that the commit store the _first_ SPPH that originally drove the first import adding the version to our commit graph.
<rbasak> Recurrences of the same version in SPPH would lead to some fairly small inefficiency as we walk over the same records again.
<rbasak> So the algorithm would be:
<rbasak> 1) Walk the SPPH in reverse chronological order
<rbasak> 2) Look for a matching commit (we can do this as we look for a tag import/<version> which will take us immediately to the commit if it exists)
<rbasak> 3) If the matching commit has metadata pointing to the same SPPH record, then stop
<wgrant> What will happen when the commit lists an SPPH in warty, and you have to walk back 27 series?
<rbasak> 4) Work backwards from where over what we have already gone over, backwards, and import those, which will now be in chronological order.
<wgrant> An alternative would be to use a ref for each SPPH
<wgrant> I think
<wgrant> Hmmm
<rbasak> I'm not sure I understand your question.
<wgrant> If you store no other state, you're going to end up walking the entire publication for packages that don't change very often
<wgrant> s/entire publication/entire publication history/
<rbasak> Ah. Because of all the copy forwards and no other uploads?
<rbasak> Yeah I see. That would require us to walk all the way back to warty.
<wgrant> Exactly.
<rbasak> One iteration per series max I think?
<wgrant> Most likely.
 * rbasak wonders what would happen if we used a git note for each SPPH record against the commit
<rbasak> That could be optional. A present git note would optimise your pathological case.
<rbasak> A missing git note and the previous algorithm applies.
<rbasak> So it'd be fairly robust to missing notes.
<rbasak> And if we see an SPPH record without a corresponding note, we could add it later.
<wgrant> That sounds like a possible alternative to ref per SPPH, yeah
<wgrant> Effective caching, but in the repo and mutably.
<rbasak> If we used ref per SPPH, what would you call the refs?
<rbasak> Caching is the right way to think about it I think, thanks.
<wgrant> refs/go-away/no-really/this-is-pretty-internal/nothing-to-see-here/spph-1234
<rbasak> I'm less averse to storing state if it is just a cache
<rbasak> And the cache is semantically a (SPPH identifier -> commit id) mapping I think.
<wgrant> I guess if you already identify the commit first by (name, version) ref, the fact that notes aren't indexed by content isn't a problem.
<wgrant> Right, which was I was going for a ref rather than a note -- notes are structured the other way, so you can't efficiently look up by SPPH ID
<rbasak> You'd have to look up the SPPH record package version string, then look for the tag.
<rbasak> Which is still O(1) for our purposes I think.
<rbasak> I'm pondering just using an out-of-repo cache.
<wgrant> Out-of-repo cache is certainly the approach I'd start with.
<rbasak> Though that won't be shared, so a third party person wanting to manually catch up on a package will have to regenerate the cache.
<rbasak> Let's see what nacc thinks.
<rbasak> wgrant: thank you for the discussion
 * cjwatson comments on the bug before reading the above discussion, although it sounds like I reached a similar conclusion independently
<rbasak> Thanks
<VG12> Hello everyone, I have a pressing question if someone would be so kind as to help me.
<rbasak> VG12: just ask your question. Otherwise nobody knows if they can help you, so can't answer.
<VG12> A work colleague of mine is targeted by a hainous website, the WHOIS is privacy protected but the registrar is launchpad. I have never used launchpad, I don't get how thats possible : is launchpad a webhosting service ?
<VG12> Registrar WHOIS Server: www.launchpad.com Registrar URL: www.launchpad.com
<rbasak> This channel is about launchpad.net.
<cjwatson> VG12: That's not us.
<cjwatson> Similar name, but no relation.
<cjwatson> (From time to time we get misdirected queries from people who've registered domains with launchpad.com, and the best we can do is point them in the right direction.)
<VG12> Oh yes indeed. Thank you folks, sorry the answer was before my eyes.
<VG12> Have a great day
<cjwatson> Good luck tracking down the problem.
<rbasak> I need a list of all source packages (that we might need to import). nacc is parsing http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/devel/main/source/Sources.xz. Any opinion?
<cjwatson> rbasak: I believe I suggested that.
<rbasak> Ah, OK :)
<cjwatson> Except obviously more components etc.
<rbasak> Trouble is that also excludes older series. If we care.
<cjwatson> Well, I didn't specifically suggest only devel.
<cjwatson> I'd check all series and all pockets.
<cjwatson> The thing I suggested was using published Sources files rather than (probably very slow) API queries.
<rbasak> Getting the series from the API presumably
<cjwatson> Yep
 * rbasak wonders if a list of pockets is similarly available
<cjwatson> Afraid not, but it hasn't changed in over a decade
<rbasak> Looks like the API defines the set
<cjwatson> It's in lp.registry.interfaces.pocket
<rbasak> While you're here (I'm review nacc's MP), any opinion on the actual parsing, as implemented in Python? nacc is doing some Python-based parsing of the Sources file. Which feels ugly, but shelling out to grep-dctrl would also be ugly.
<rbasak> What would you do?
<cjwatson> rbasak: I'd use python-debian
<cjwatson> The stuff in debian.deb822 is generally fine for this
<rbasak> Thanks!
<cjwatson> rbasak: (python-apt is also fine; python-debian sometimes makes use of that for speed.  Use whichever interface is more comfortable.)
<cjwatson> rbasak: germinate uses python-apt, so possibly I preferred that at one point.  I think when I wrote that python-debian was significantly less good.
<kama> hi!
<kama> is it possible/am I allowed to use a launchpad PPA to make packages for Debian?
<nacc> cjwatson: i just had a lightbulb moment thanks to your responses in the bug, thank you very much!
<nacc> cjwatson: and you are right about the algorithm rework, and i think we have more to do in that space
<cjwatson> cool, glad to help
<nacc> cjwatson: sorry for my density :)
#launchpad 2017-11-09
<tsimonq2> Any reason why 2/3 of the builders for amd64/i386 are disabled?
<tsimonq2> (maybe due to the firewall maintenance?)
<wgrant> tsimonq2: Indeed, fixing. Thanks for the poke.
<tsimonq2> wgrant: yw :)
<nickoe> Hello
<nickoe> why is it that the ubuntu one login on staging launchpad.net requires two factor auth?   I don't think I have that setup. So I can't login to the staging instance.
<cjwatson> nickoe: I think you must be in some relevant team.  What's your username?
<nickoe> cjwatson: nickoe
<nickoe> I just wanted to test if it was possible to use milestones for a git project.
<cjwatson> staging doesn't have git anyway
<cjwatson> you could use qastaging.launchpad.net, which has git and uses production SSO
<cjwatson> (although is running off a somewhat old DB dump)
<nickoe> why does it not have git?
<nickoe> according to the help page about the staging server it says that it is only about a week after
<cjwatson> basically just we haven't set it up.  we did all the development on qastaging
<cjwatson> right, but that doesn't necessarily mean all services exist there
<cjwatson> I'd like to do it but haven't had time
<cjwatson> I can possibly answer your question anyway; milestones basically don't interact with code hosting (either bzr or git) in any way
<cjwatson> so you can use them, they just don't have any connection to git
<dobey> and presumably you can link a series to a branch in git
<nickoe> cjwatson: basically it was because of
<nickoe> https://lists.launchpad.net/kicad-developers/msg31469.html
<cjwatson> dobey: no
<dobey> so that only works with bzr?
<cjwatson> yes.  git branches are much more lightweight
<cjwatson> nickoe: that email stems from the false premise that you could do that with bzr
<cjwatson> nickoe: perhaps somebody is confusing milestones and series
<dobey> yes i think that means series
<nickoe> yes, indeed. So I wanted to see if I could do it. I am.not admin.for the kicad project.
<cjwatson> nickoe: while you can't link a series to a git branch in a strong way, you can easily just advertise a branch as being the main development branch for a particular series.  linking it to the series in a strong LP project management kind of way doesn't buy all that much.
<cjwatson> nickoe: we don't implement it because git branches are more lightweight and don't have the same kind of database presence - for example it would be pretty cumbersome to prevent deletion of a branch that was linked to a series.
<nickoe> I don't need that either.  I just need to be able to indicate bugs for some milestone clearly, hopefully better than using tags.
<cjwatson> nickoe: and you can do that without needing to have a branch linked to the milestone
<cjwatson> or series for that matter
<cjwatson> I think git is really a red herring when it comes to wanting to track bugs in a milestone or series
<nickoe> ehh, why?  what do you mean?
<cjwatson> what difference would it make to bug tracking to have a git branch linked to the series?  or even a bzr branch?
<nickoe> I don't need that
<cjwatson> then you do not have a problem here
<nickoe> I just wanted to use the milestone property for a bug
<cjwatson> right, and that has nothing to do with bzr or git
<cjwatson> you can just do it (if you have sufficient privileges on the project, at least)
<dobey> well, it's useful outside of launchpad proper (ie, tarmac can update bug status when a branch lands in a bzr target branch that's linked to a series)
<cjwatson> this Wayne person is confused
<nickoe> I understand.
<nickoe> y
<cjwatson> dobey: bug status, but not bug task status
<cjwatson> err
<dobey> but for git, that link could be mad outside launchpad i suppose
<cjwatson> sorry, yes, in the tarmac case I suppose so
<nickoe> i don't have the priv. for that on the project, since I can not see any link to create a milestpne
<cjwatson> nickoe: right, so just need to go back to the kicad maintainers and point out that they can perfectly well use milestones regardless of whether git is in use
<dobey> ie, one could make a policy where branch name and series name must match, and write a tool based on that
<cjwatson> right
<cjwatson> nickoe: feel free to point them our way if they still have problems
<nickoe> cjwatson: thank you.  I must go now. :)
<cjwatson> I've got a colleague fixing the two-factor stuff
<cjwatson> thanks for pointing that out
#launchpad 2017-11-10
<tsimonq2> Hmph, so I can't log into staging.launchpad.net because it says my account isn't found, but I can't create new accounts... how's that work? :)
 * tsimonq2 wants to play with a script without messing up real data
<tsimonq2> Also, getting lots of timeouts... OOPS-91dd0399db1b3996f701b6b7cd3c2e93 is one of them :)
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-91dd0399db1b3996f701b6b7cd3c2e93
<cjwatson> I wonder if the slave is still unhappy after my somewhat ill-judged reindexing
<cjwatson> We may just have to wait it out I'm afraid; I screwed up ordering
<pjdc> tsimonq2: iirc staging LP uses staging Ubuntu One, so you'll need to create an account with the correct matching e-mail on https://login.staging.ubuntu.com/ to log into staging LP
<tsimonq2> cjwatson: ack
<tsimonq2> pjdc: Except it won't let me
<pjdc> tsimonq2: does it say why?
<tsimonq2> pjdc: No, it just oopses when I try to log in
<pjdc> is that the same as the oops above, or was that for a different case?
<tsimonq2> OOPS-cc5d0290f795b4cbac1b39010a568fb8
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-cc5d0290f795b4cbac1b39010a568fb8
<wgrant> tsimonq2: Try now?
<tsimonq2> wgrant:  OOPS-840a66f9e859506f58fb80bc4e5beefa
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-840a66f9e859506f58fb80bc4e5beefa
<wgrant> tsimonq2: One more time?
<tsimonq2> wgrant: Works, thanks!
<wgrant> tsimonq2: Excellent
<wgrant> Thanks pjdc
<pjdc> no worries
<tsimonq2> wgrant: Another problem, if you don't mind...
<tsimonq2> Pushing to Bazaar branches doesn't seem to be working
<tsimonq2> ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host
<tsimonq2> ConnectionReset reading response for 'BzrDir.open_2.1', retrying
<wgrant> tsimonq2: Ah, that's probably something upset about the staging DB disk space issues.
<wgrant> pjdc: Can you manually start tellurium's staging bzr-sftp?
<pjdc> can do
<pjdc> Currently in maintenance mode. Ignoring...
<pjdc> also, just 1 or 1 & 2?
<pjdc> removed /srv/bazaar.staging.launchpad.net/maintenance.txt
<pjdc> trying again
<pjdc> started
<wgrant> pjdc: Hm, and the forking server too?
<pjdc> is that 2?
<wgrant> Nah, it's called something different
<wgrant> with "fork" in the name of the initscript
<pjdc> ah, there they are
<pjdc> both or just 1?
<pjdc> i alreadt started sftp2
<wgrant> Both of both, ideally
<wgrant> There we go, thanks.
<wgrant> tsimonq2: Working now
<pjdc> started bzr-lp-forking-service-staging{1,2}
<tsimonq2> wgrant: Can confirm, thanks!
<faekjarz> hi, is there a known issue with lauchpad login? (I can't log in.)
<cjwatson> faekjarz: What exactly is happening?
<cjwatson> It's working fine for me, but there may be something wrong with your account.  We can probably work it out given details.
<faekjarz> internal server errors w/o admin email address, no input fields in login form, redirect to login.ubuntu.com but it just does nothing after clicking "Log in"
<cjwatson> faekjarz: Err, that's extremely weird.  Screenshot?
<cjwatson> faekjarz: Exactly what URL(s) is/are returning internal server errors?
<cjwatson> faekjarz: And are there any OOPS IDs visible?
<faekjarz> nope, i didn't record the fail. I'll delete my coockies and try registering a new account. I'm sure it'll be fine, or tell me that it already exists. (I'm not even sure that is actually have an account.)
<cjwatson> Shouldn't be necessary, but OK ...
<faekjarz> my password manager lists a launchpad.net account though â¦huh, ok, just to double-check, i tried logging in the my usual way: my pw manager points to https://login.launchpad.net/, which i opened, entered my credentials, WORKS FOR ME, ticket closed. ;)
<cjwatson> good :)
<JanC> we're getting time-out issues when we try to mark a bug as a duplicate ("Timeout error, please try again in a few minutes.")
<JanC> seems like this has been going on for some time...
<JanC> bug #1726545 should be marked as a duplicate of bug #1713313
<ubot5> bug 1726545 in gparted (Ubuntu) "Gparted not working in Wayland Ubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1726545
<ubot5> bug 1713313 in xdiagnose (Ubuntu) "Unable to launch pkexec'ed applications on Wayland session" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1713313
<JanC> we tried it on October 23, November 9, and I just tried it again--still the same error...
<JanC> that time-out error comes quite fast, which is somewhat surprising also...
<JanC> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1731268
<ubot5> Launchpad bug 1731268 in Launchpad itself "Unable to mark a bug as a duplicate" [Undecided,Incomplete]
#launchpad 2017-11-11
<JanC> and when I try to report an OOPS there, that timeouts too now  :P
<JanC> for reference, it's OOPS-3a24e5fafbbca7c7eda19766c2a02b97
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-3a24e5fafbbca7c7eda19766c2a02b97
<JanC> the OOPS for failing to let me add a response with an OOPS is OOPS-bd0b106e4e53291b1b9a78fdac4c2244
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-bd0b106e4e53291b1b9a78fdac4c2244
<JanC> cjwatson: as you asked for an OOPS...  ^^^
<JanC> ah, now I could finally add it
<JanC> (the OOPS, not the duplicate)
<cjwatson> Well, it's just the usual inability for the bugtaskflat triggers to create a temporary table; the only unusual thing is that it seems to be persisting for longer than ten minutes at a time?
<cjwatson> Hm, though not quite that, no temp tables involved here
<cjwatson> No sysadmins on non-emergency duty at the moment so I can't find out if there are any long transactions in place
<cjwatson> Could just be contention with the enormous BranchRevision autovacuum in progress I suppose?
#launchpad 2017-11-12
<princepathria> https://staging.launchpad.net/ not working
<tsimonq2> Hmmm, Launchpad seems to be eating my PPA uploads
<tsimonq2> What's up with that
<tsimonq2> ?
<tsimonq2> Oh, now that i say something it decides to work... :P
<tsimonq2> s/ i / I /
#launchpad 2018-11-05
<teward> wgrant: cjwatson: can one of you squish a comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nginx/+bug/1513065 please?  comment by user 'emma' serves nothing more than 'spam' since it's advertising themselves and their comment has nothing to do with the question at hand.
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1513065 in nginx (Ubuntu) "package nginx-core (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [Undecided,Invalid]
<cjwatson> teward: done
<teward> cjwatson: thank you kindly
<ricotz> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/uftrace/0.9.0-1/+build/15588311 looks stuck
#launchpad 2018-11-06
<seb128> hey there, I just noticed on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spice-vdagent/+bug/1792360 that the debian remote watch is not updated
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1792360 in spice-vdagent (Ubuntu) "Update to 0.18.0" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<seb128> "The information about this bug in Launchpad is automatically pulled daily from the remote bug. This information was last pulled on 2018-09-19. "
<seb128> is that a bug/normal/known? how can I figure out what's going on?
#launchpad 2018-11-07
<cousin_luigi> Greetings.
<cousin_luigi> Is there a way to be notified of new tags in a launchpad.net project? e.g. via rss/atom ?
<cjwatson> cousin_luigi: Do you mean a bzr branch or a git repository?
<cjwatson> cousin_luigi: In either case, I don't think there's a way to do that at the moment.  You can subscribe to a Bazaar branch and be notified of new revisions in the branch, but I don't think there's anything to notify you of new tags.  In the Git case, even new-commit subscriptions aren't implemented yet.
<cousin_luigi> cjwatson: I'm not sure, https://launchpad.net/rapid/pyqt this is the one I'd like.
<cousin_luigi> cjwatson: Milestones and releases, I suppose.
<cjwatson> cousin_luigi: I don't understand what you mean by "tag" then.
<cjwatson> Oh right.
<cousin_luigi> If it's not possible, is there a suggestion box somewhere?
<cjwatson> I don't believe we have any kind of feed for that.
<cjwatson> We have a bug tracking system for that kind of thing.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad
<cjwatson> Though there is already a bug about this.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/424189
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 424189 in Launchpad itself "Subscribe to milestones and series" [Low,Triaged]
<cousin_luigi> cjwatson: Thanks, will file a feature request to that effect then.
<cousin_luigi> Oh.
<cousin_luigi> 2009. I won't hold my breath.
<cjwatson> No work on that is currently planned, indeed.
<cousin_luigi> I guess I'm out of luck.
<cousin_luigi> bbl!
<oSoMoN> cjwatson, IÂ just discovered that a snap on LP can be configured to use snapcraft as a snap from a specific channel when an automated build is triggered by changes in the branch, but I don't seem to be able to do that when manually requesting a build from the /+request-builds page, is there a way to do that?
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1791265
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1791265 in Launchpad itself "Manual snap builds don't allow for snapcraft/snapd channel selection" [Undecided,New]
<oSoMoN> cjwatson, thanks, any chance of getting this scheduled?
<cjwatson> I'll see if I can fit it in somewhere, but not promising
<cjwatson> You can work around it using the API
<oSoMoN> cjwatson, if there's a workaround that's good enough for me, is there documentation for the API?
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: https://dogfood.paddev.net/+apidoc/devel.html#snap-requestBuilds
<cjwatson> err
<cjwatson> oSoMoN: https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/devel.html#snap-requestBuilds, sorry, over-clever firefox location bar
<cjwatson> you can probably ignore the async stuff there unless you're building an app on top of LP that needs to check
<oSoMoN> thanks, I'll check and play with it after dinner
<jeremy31> More cleanup needed on https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu 675995, and 676001, 676003-676007
<ubot5> Error: Ubuntu bug 675995 could not be found
<jeremy31> last one is 676006 not 007
<cjwatson> jeremy31: done
<cjwatson> jeremy31: (https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion is better though)
<jeremy31> cjwatson I do post there sometimes about spam, but I was on IRC anyhow
<cjwatson> fortunately I happened to be as well, but that won't always be the case and sometimes I miss scrollback
<jeremy31> If I see it still there the next day I post on answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
<cjwatson> OK
#launchpad 2018-11-08
<blaze> can I have a 1 gig more for my ppa?
<cjwatson> blaze: Generally this is OK, but please ask it as a question on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion so that we know who you are and what your PPA is
<blaze> cjwatson: done
<ricotz> cjwatson, hi, this still looks stuck https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/uftrace/0.9.0-1/+build/15588311
<cjwatson> ricotz: cancelled.  Dunno what's up with that package
<ricotz> cjwatson, some funny changelog https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/uftrace/0.9.0-1
<ricotz> -> UNRELEASED
<cjwatson> ricotz: wasn't my package
<cjwatson> please don't talk to me about it :)
<ricotz> cjwatson, haha :)
<ahasenack> OOPS-e3ca81011716d5855df925f1824d2ba8
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-e3ca81011716d5855df925f1824d2ba8
<ahasenack> aha
<ahasenack> what was the script/api call again to trigger the regeneration of the diff in an mp?
<ahasenack> I used that trick once
<cjwatson> ahasenack: lp.load('/~ahasenack/ubuntu/+source/samba/+git/samba/+merge/358520').scheduleDiffUpdates()
<teward> i'm not 100% familiar with LP Git yet, how do I make a branch of an exisitng repo to make a merge request with it?
<teward> it seems atypical to other git platforms I'm used to, so forgive the question :P
<wgrant> teward: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Git#Pushing_code
<ahasenack> cjwatson: thanks, I wrote it down this time :)
#launchpad 2018-11-10
<wxl> why did the bug import not work here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/lxqt/+bug/1795539
<ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1795539 in lxqt-config (Ubuntu) "only falkon and firefox can be set as default browser" [Medium,Triaged]
<cjwatson> wxl: 2018-11-08 13:07:55 INFO    Failure updating bug u'1560' on https://api.github.com/repos/lxqt/lxqt (local bugs: 1795539). (OOPS-11ce1308dafd2bdf4b9fd002feb173e5)
<ubot5> bug 1795539 in lxqt-config (Ubuntu) "only falkon and firefox can be set as default browser" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1795539
<ubot5> https://oops.canonical.com/?oopsid=OOPS-11ce1308dafd2bdf4b9fd002feb173e5
<cjwatson> wxl: can you file a bug and quote that log entry?
<cjwatson> we'll need to do some digging as the OOPS is basically just a KeyError so not super-obvious
<acheronuk> why is LP git so painfully slow?
<acheronuk> quit literally just a few KiB/s at best
<cjwatson> we need to do some scaling work on it relatively urgently
<acheronuk> cjwatson: thanks. as long as its known and in hand :)
<acheronuk> just a tad frustrating right now
<tomreyn> hi, these CVE pages keep timing out for me - could someone look into this? https://launchpad.net/bugs/cve/CVE-2017-5753
<ubot5> Systems with microprocessors utilizing speculative execution and branch prediction may allow unauthorized disclosure of information to an attacker with local user access via a side-channel analysis. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2017-5753)
<tomreyn> OOPS ID is 9e1e4bb92361e2179d2ce5245549b74d
<tomreyn> that's both when not logged in and when logged in. it's interesting that it works for ubot.
#launchpad 2018-11-11
<cjwatson> tomreyn: more than we can handle with a casual IRC request - please file a bug and quote the OOPS ID (which also causes the OOPS log to stick around rather than be garbage-collected).  I think the problem is that that CVE is attached to a bazillion bug tasks and/or source packages
<tomreyn> I filed bug 1802728
<ubot5> bug 1802728 in Launchpad itself "Some CVE pages time out constantly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1802728
<tomreyn> let me post this url here again just to see whether ubot gets it this time https://launchpad.net/bugs/cve/CVE-2017-5753?test2
<ubot5> Systems with microprocessors utilizing speculative execution and branch prediction may allow unauthorized disclosure of information to an attacker with local user access via a side-channel analysis. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2017-5753)
<tomreyn> weird.
<cjwatson> Thanks.  The bot might well use the API to look up the description in a way that involves less work than rendering the page.
<tomreyn> oh, right, good point, hadn't considered the api.
<tomreyn> thanks, too
<wgrant> It also needn't necessarily get the CVE information from LP at all.
<cjwatson> That too.
