#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-03
<klepas> anyone home?>
<klepas> moin
<mpathy> Hi there..
<klepas> anyone home!?
<klepas> please.
<mpathy> yes
<mpathy> whazzup? :)
<klepas> Finally
<klepas> Alrighty
<klepas> Remember that list that was posted outlining what needs to be done?
<klepas> [btw, hi, nice to meet you :) ] 
<mpathy> hmm.. yes?
<mpathy> you too :)
<klepas> I'm right now going through it, whilst browisng GNOME-Look.org, ubuntuforums.org and art.ubuntu.com
<klepas> adding possible candidates which in my opinion we could draw any items that are missing after we add everything else
<mpathy> I found someone who have many pictures, especially those who fit this calendar "elements-themed" idea..
<klepas> good
<klepas> because i'm missing that the most
<klepas> i'm trying to fulfill the children, teenager, realism and such categories
<mpathy> he wrote on the mailing list, subject "newbie"
<klepas> yup
<klepas> i replied telling him we are like 24 hours away from deadline and to send as many pics our way as possible :)
<mpathy> I said that he can upload the fitting pics on art.ubuntu.com
<mpathy> i think he will answer soon
<klepas> good
<klepas> have you got admin rights to AUC as well?
<mpathy> klepas, could you mail the current status of what to do in a while?
<mpathy> no
<klepas> alrighty
<klepas> here's the deal
<klepas> i'll finish off the basic wallpapers
<klepas> well the URLs and names of candidates
<klepas> mail them to you
<klepas> and i'll check in on AUC right afterwards?
<mpathy> what do you mean with AUC right? sorry my brain doesnt work properly right now, had a hefty week ;)
<klepas> Well what I am doing right now is trying to find candidates to choose items to add to the art stuff
<klepas> by going through that list of stuff needed and browsing GNOME-Look, gallery@ Ubuntuforums.org and art.ubuntu.com
<klepas> once i've done/covered all items for the wallpapers, i'll mail you the list to continue
<klepas> and i'll check AUC for those new submissions.
<klepas> :)
<mpathy> "make it so" :)
<klepas> Can do
<klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/44
<klepas> there's our Children themed wallpaper
<klepas> and it's even an SVG
<klepas> :D
<mpathy> great. perfect. done! :)
<mpathy> next :)
<klepas> That guy has talent
<klepas> well i am doing several for each category, so we can choose more than one or have a larger variety
<klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/28
<klepas> another one for the kid category?
<mpathy> yes, he also does such a transparent png I mentioned.. thats a great advance because of the "i dont like this brown!!" problem ;)
<mpathy> why kids category? that is one I like too ;)
<klepas> they fall into the cute, non-techy criteria
<klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/1
<klepas> these for the 'teenager' category
<mpathy> we shouldnt think too straight in the categories which had been mailed.. if we have a couple of different, but high-quality wallpapers its okay.. my opinion..
<klepas> yea
<klepas> well i've added a lot
<klepas> so we can have a lot to pick from
<klepas> and we need to pick within the next 10 hours
<mpathy> okay.. whats with the calendar pics?
<klepas> not sure there
<klepas> i'm hoping our new guy can help us out :)
<mpathy> yes I hope too.. I think we stick to the elements idea.. its too late too think of new concepts.. lets look what we can find..
<klepas> yea
<klepas> http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/images/103.png
<klepas> Whoa!
<mpathy> at last resort we should additionally send all our suggestions to canonical because they have ressources to finalize them otherwise.. (stock photo)
<klepas> agreed
<klepas> did you check that last URL?
<mpathy> yes.. but whats the connection to ubuntu? i think we should save that pic for the "crazy cockchafer" release *LOL*
<klepas> lollers
<klepas> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=615&c=5
<klepas> ^ candidate for the photography stuff
<mpathy> hmm..
<mpathy> the idea is nice but the pic could be better.. perhaps the person who submitted it have other versions of this motive
<klepas> yep
<mpathy> i think the photography section has the greatest selection
<klepas> think so?
<mpathy> hi lllmanulll 
<lllmanulll> Hi !
<klepas> hard to come by so far
<mpathy> yes.. most of the pics are photos..
<lllmanulll> Good to see that ther's some discussion going on here :)
<lllmanulll> s/ther/there
<klepas> moin lllmanulll
<mpathy> not that much as it should be a day before deadline ;)
<klepas> mpathy, what's the max wallpapers we can ship?
<mpathy> okay, I dont know where the other persons live.. here it is 16:00 :)
<mpathy> klepas: dont know
<klepas> i hope it's a lot
<klepas> :)
<lllmanulll> Huh, anybody knows where Andy can be found ?
<lllmanulll> I ma de some icons for Firefox, OpenOffice, etc., and need some input from him
<klepas> mailing list most likely
<klepas> I don't know his other details, soz
<lllmanulll> Well, he doesn't seem to answer (I have already posted a mail with my icons)
<mpathy> hmm.. i think it shouldnt be too much.. but there should be an integration of the gnome-art frontend
<klepas> mpathy, think we could ask the guy over at www.linuxart.com for a few nice shots?
<mpathy> lllmanulll: on the mailing list? you could additionally add them to art.ubuntu.com?
<mpathy> why not? but fast :)
<lllmanulll> mpathy, I didn't find a way to post icons on art.ubuntu.com
<lllmanulll> Only full icon themes
<lllmanulll> Si there a simple way ?
<mpathy> oh okay.. hmm dont know.. there is an forum!
<klepas> alright - could you folks please give me the URLs of any nice GDM themes that we could add the list of candidates?
<mpathy> klepas: hehe, http://linuxart.com/photos/03jul12-zoo,_africa/1152/0712-104718.jpg thats nice and if I retouched it, perhaps someone believes its a "breezy badger" ;)
* klepas looks
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> go for it
<mpathy> okay i'll try.. retouching is a least one thing I'm good at ;)
<klepas> but stay close to the chatroom
<klepas> might need you very soon
<mpathy> klepas: But there would be 1000 mails of people who say: That is NO badger ;)
<klepas> almost done with my part of the list :)
<klepas> rof rof
<klepas> moin
<mpathy> hi newz2000 
<newz2000> good morning (GMT -6)
<newz2000> I'm gonna take a shower soon, but I wanted to say I'll have some time today (2 - 3 hours) to help with art deadline.
<newz2000> So if anyone has any need, let me know. When I get back I'll see what I can do.
<klepas> sure thing
<newz2000> I'm good at touching up, color correctiong, optimizing and converting. Not as great at creating.
<klepas> good :)
<klepas> stick around
<newz2000> I will. I'll be back soon, but I'll keep my irc client open and catch up when I get return.
<klepas> Alrighty
<klepas> mini announcement
<klepas> Is there/could someone please make/show me a finished version of this:
<klepas> http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/473/ubuntulogin019io.png
<klepas> that is just a mockup
<newz2000> Did you make that?
<klepas> No
<klepas> I can find out who's concept idea it was
<klepas> if you like
<klepas> but it would be grand if we could set that into life (mockup)
<newz2000> I think the green in Session is too low contrast with the background... people who are color blind probably won't be able to read it.
<newz2000> The red in session might have the same problem.
<klepas> Agreed
<klepas> blue might do it
<klepas> such as the blue used for the "Shutdown"
<klepas> and that green for the "restart" could be changed
<mpathy> klepas: I can try to do, i did a few gdm themes for myself a few months ago..
<klepas> that would be awesome
<klepas> :-)
<mpathy> klepas: if the one who made the mockup could send it to me in "parts" I would try!
<klepas> one moment
<mpathy> that mockup would fit perfectly to the new gnome theme who was suggested ("pilgrim")
<mpathy> mpathy: perhaps I could take some "parts" of that
<klepas> talking to yourself there...? :-P
<klepas> Alright
<klepas> the guy who posted the mockup for the GDM theme can be found here:
<klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com/users/14
<klepas> and he also posted an awesome full screen splash!
<klepas> would it be possible to turn this into reality: http://img344.imageshack.us/my.php?image=breezysplash018vz.png
<klepas> No takers?
<mpathy> klepas: I dont know if its technically possible to do a fullscreen splashscreen because of the different resolutions
<klepas> perhaps as an SVG?
<klepas> in this case it could be possible
<mpathy> klepas: but I would at least tell canonical about it tomorrow
<klepas> yea
<klepas> well it's a suggestion
<klepas> otherwise there are plenty i'm about to scourage for on GNOME-Look
<mpathy> klepas: dont know if svg works at splash and second, also the icons had to be scalable in that way
<klepas> ah, good point
<klepas> well we'll just leave it as a mockup then
<klepas> I'm guessing Canonical has an separate art team or some sorts.
<mpathy> klepas: I would keep the focus on the wallpapers and the humiltiy iconset, the splash and the gdm are not too bad already :)
<klepas> Yea. You're right
<klepas> :)
<mpathy> klepas: dont know if there is a art team but they have people who could do this, if they think it has to be done..
<klepas> Good.
<mpathy> lets look what we can get done, and not to try too many things in this short time ;) this is our first time as art team, next time we will reach another level, for sure ;)
<klepas> done
<klepas> i'll post the list
<klepas> mailing list
<klepas> sent
<klepas> :)
<klepas> Oh, and by the way: I just went sort of stressful because we need to do something, and no one else seemed to be taking a lead. I'm happy to retire now. :)
<newz2000> someone has to lead
<klepas> Lucky it's holidays here then.
<klepas> otherwise there is a bedtime curfew
<newz2000> klepass, where are you?
<klepas> [00:43 here] 
<klepas> Canberra, Australia.
<klepas> 16 years old. And staying up late. :-P
* klepas stretches
<klepas> So. What have you been up to recently? :)
<newz2000> good job on that list.
<newz2000> I'm coding this week. I work for a company that makes a comercial content management system. My job for the week is to add podcasting support.
<klepas> Kick ass.
<newz2000> hopefully
<klepas> What's the CMS called?
<newz2000> www.elitecms.com
<klepas> Thanks, btw.
<mpathy> What I can do is only to try on IRC as long as possible and additionally try to make this gdm, but I also have little time these weeks 
<klepas> That's alright mpathy
<klepas> Guys, check the mailing list
<klepas> the to-do list has just gotten through
<klepas> I sure hope it's enough
<mpathy> klepas: forgot the calendar images but volvoguy reminded also a few days ago about this.. I hope the new guy on the mailing list has most of the pics so we could also finish that
<klepas> yea
<klepas> it's v1
<klepas> so feel free to add and make a v2 of the list
<klepas> for those not on the mailing list or don't have access to it or whatever
<mpathy> klepas: But its a good overview. btw, i dont like working only with a mailing list and a unstructured wiki.. but thats things we can discuss after the deadline :) :o(
<klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/files/the-list-v1.txt
<newz2000> klepas, I thick something is blocking private messages
<klepas> :o(
<mpathy> hey guys, I gotta go, LUG meeting this evening.. I continue my work there and perhaps get some other ubuntu-users to help me ;)
<klepas> enjoy LUG. :o)
<mpathy> thx..
<mpathy> bye then
<klepas> :)
<klepas> alrighty guys
<klepas> I'm out
<klepas> nothing new has shown up on art.ubuntu.com
<klepas> and it's 02:05 AM here
<klepas> Good night everyone. I'll check what's been composed tomorrow
<mpathy> hi ther
<mpathy> I'm afraid I need at least one day to get the mockup into a working gdm 
<ares> hello :)
<ares> catching up on logged chats, don't mind me
<mpathy> anybody here? ;)
<newz2000> I am, but I'm pulling my hair out.
<ares> I am
<ares> I'm reading
<newz2000> mpathy, I'm not surprised about the gdm thing. It looks like you'll pretty much have to recreate that from scratch.
<newz2000> If you want to go through that effort of course.
<mpathy> newz2000: if I had the single parts I could be fast.. but I think tomorrow will be a hell of a day, so..
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-04
<klepas> moin
<klepas> Could we during the course of the day come together and become a sort of quorum to decide on the items from that list I compiled?
<klepas> Hullo....
<klepas> !gaim
<klepas> ack
<klepas> Anyone awake?
<kamstrup> yeay! I'm awake!
<klepas> Anyone awake now...
<klepas> finally.
<klepas> Moin
<kamstrup> You woke me up! :-D
<klepas> good
<klepas> :-P
<klepas> have you been following the mailing lists?
<kamstrup> Yes...
<klepas> had a look at that list?
<klepas> that was compiled
<kamstrup> yes
<klepas> we need to vote on it
<kamstrup> did you see the latest mail from Jeff Waugh?
<klepas> checking
<klepas> alrighty
<kamstrup> Wow! Have you seen: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/
<klepas> well my idea then would be to cut down that list
<klepas> yep
<kamstrup> yes... it'd be really nice to have volvoguy or Andrew around when doing this
<kamstrup> But are we focusing solely on calendar images now (considering jdubs mail)
<klepas> No
<klepas> I say we ought to cut down that list of possible candidates to 3
<klepas> for each category
<kamstrup> sounds sane
<klepas> we can do the calender stuff at the same time
<kamstrup> But how do we weed out?
<klepas> Well, for example
<kamstrup> Maybe we should just do it, and then direct complaints to /dev/null
<klepas> lol
<kamstrup> ... seriously
<kamstrup> :-)
<klepas> "Now we do the children's category, open the stuff listed in the list and choose three"
<klepas> then we come to mutually agree
<klepas> voila
<klepas> next bit
<kamstrup> Ok. I guess we should warn the ML. Give it 15 minutes and then just get to it...
<klepas> alrighty
<klepas> could you write the mail
<kamstrup> Yep. I'm on it
* kamstrup typing away
<klepas> I need to be away for 24-30 minutes
<klepas> pretty please with cherries ontop? ;-)
<klepas> Cheers.
* kamstrup has notified the mailing list.
* kamstrup notes that it was 10:00 local time (Denmark)
<volvoguy> hey all. i have a million things going on at once, so i'm only about a third here.... but i wanted to be around, especially considering jeff's last email. 
<kamstrup> ... and considering /my/ last mail (send ~5 min ago)...
<kamstrup> ;-P
<volvoguy> well yes... you're the one that got me in here. :o)
<kamstrup> Super
<kamstrup> !
<volvoguy> is Pascal in here too?
<volvoguy> i can never remember everyone's nicks. 
<kamstrup> He'll be back soon (that's what he said atleast)
<volvoguy> i got the impression from jeff's email that today is not necessarily the deadline for the wallpapers. 
<kamstrup> it struck me too
<kamstrup> But then what would "Artwork Deadline" mean?
<volvoguy> if that's the case, it might be nice to go through pascal's list and contact the artists, see if they'll post their stuff on art.ubuntu.com, and then figure out a good way to vote. 
<kamstrup> yea, but we really need to narrow the list down before any voting...
<volvoguy> kamstrup, originally the canonical administrative people had much more lofty goals for our team and the breezy release. unrealistic goals in my opinion.
<kamstrup> he, yeah, but Dapper will have so much art you will get paint on you fingers if you touch the screen!
<kamstrup> cheers mpathy 
<volvoguy> well, if we can pick six, i don't think it's unreasonable to have 12-18 wallpapers in the pool to vote on. top six entries with the most votes get the nominiations. 
<mpathy> hi kamstrup 
<mpathy> yes.. quality not quantity
<kamstrup> For the calendars yes, but I still think we might as well pick "ordinary" wallpapers as well
<volvoguy> kamstrup, perhaps ogra_ can comment on that. since there will be an artwork repository online, i don't know if a "we liked these wallpapers" package in universe is really necessary.
<volvoguy> that's just my opinion though.
<kamstrup> You know what'd be really cool volvoguy?
<volvoguy> if we find out we have another week or two, we also might want to allow for voting on a wallpaper theme - and see if an artist with lots of votes could make all six. 
<volvoguy> kamstrup, what's that? 
<kamstrup> If the art-manager-thing was integrated into gnome-app-install
<volvoguy> kamstrup, i'm confident that we'll have something like gnome-art by dapper duck. it's already being talked about on the wiki as a goal for that relase. 
<kamstrup> - might give problems with root/user priv's though (if it's integrated into gnome-app-install)
<volvoguy> i'd honestly like to see it separate from the application installation program. 
<kamstrup> thinking more about this... you're right
<volvoguy> kamstrup, have you tried gnome-art?
<kamstrup> not yet
<kamstrup> I've tried the kde sister though
<kamstrup> That was not a good experience :-S
<volvoguy> miketech is it's author and he's usually hanging around in here. he's already working on tying it in to art.ubuntu.com.
<volvoguy> it works really well. 
<volvoguy> if you're into theming in the windows world, it's much like the wincustomize browser. preview, download and install artwork right from the app. 
<kamstrup> oh, I've not really used windos since '98
<volvoguy> is anyone here really into the launchpad stuff yet? i think they might have voting/poll capabilities. 
<volvoguy> kamstrup, lucky you! i still can't quite get by with the gimp, so i'm stuck with windows mostly for the Adobe Creative Suite. 
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kamstrup] : Artwork deadline is TODAY! Don't panic... p-pa pa paniiic aaaaaargh!
<volvoguy> keep up with yer talking. i need to pop over to #ubuntu for a minute and then disappear from the computer for a few minutes. I will be back though. :o)
<klepas> back
<kamstrup> cheers, volvoguy and mpathy droppped by while you where away
<klepas> yea
<klepas> just read the stuff
<kamstrup> I think we should start when volvoguy gets back
<klepas> yea
<klepas> problem is mum wants me to usher at the street theatre tonight
* volvoguy will be a floater. you can probably start talking. 
<klepas> in 15 minutes
<volvoguy> i just medicated so i might be out in 15 minutes. 
<kamstrup> we need to quick then ;-P
<klepas> So, you guys can either go aead, or we can delay this till later
<klepas> Your call, I'm easy going. :)
<volvoguy> i can delay my non-computer stuff 15 minutes. fire away.
<klepas> alrgihty
<klepas> start with the children's category?
<kamstrup> Aya
<kamstrup> volvoguy: you've got klepas' list in front of you?
<kamstrup> mpathy: are you here?
<volvoguy> yes, yes i do. 
<klepas> goodie
<volvoguy> somewhere.
<klepas> open all the stuff from the children's section
<klepas> set?
<kamstrup> i'm ready
<klepas> alrgihty
<klepas> i think we can eliminate the 'ubuntu-tan' one
<klepas> although it's really cute and cool, it's a language dependant one
<mpathy> kamstrup: not the whole time, I am at work & in danger ;)
<volvoguy> ok. kids all loaded.
<kamstrup> mpathy: living life in the fast lane eh?
<klepas> anyone else agree about the 'Ubuntu-tan' one?
<kamstrup> on Ubuntu-tan: Quality work, but has text in it (I don't know what it says)
<volvoguy> ubuntu-tan is definitely not for children.
<mpathy> kamstrup: hehe.. there are higher goals than a job *ggg*
<kamstrup> -- it might also be offensive to somebody
<klepas> Agreed
<kamstrup> scratch Ubuntu-tan then?
<klepas> so that's out.
<klepas> Yes.
<volvoguy> wait. let's clarify something. are we discussing calendar art now or a potential universe package? 
<kamstrup> oh :-D
<kamstrup> I think it's non-calendar...?
<klepas> ye.
<klepas> Shall we do the calender stuff afterwards?
<volvoguy> if it's non-calendar, and we want a "grown ups" category, "ubuntu-tan" might fit there. 
<klepas> LOl.
<volvoguy> or maybe "anime land". 
<klepas> heh
<klepas> well what we take out now could still go elsewhere
<klepas> like into "others"
<klepas> but anyway
<kamstrup> certainly
<klepas> for the children's category
<volvoguy> does anyone know what the character is saying in the text bubble?
<klepas> that leaves 3 left
<klepas> leaves 4, sorry
<klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/44 - I think this is splendid
<volvoguy> i second that. "childs play" would be great for a kids section. 
<klepas> okay
<volvoguy> (who's taking notes?)
<klepas> I can
<klepas> well only until i go
<volvoguy> klepas, thanks. :)
<volvoguy> ok
<klepas> which is 10 minutes @ max more :(
* klepas is ushering at the street theatre
<klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/28
<klepas> keep that as well?
<klepas> i like it, reminds me of "The Lion King", the kids' movie
<kamstrup> Well... not really child-like
<volvoguy> i like that one, but i might ask the artist to modify the logo part of it. 
<klepas> it's GPL
<volvoguy> it currently breaks the trademark rules. 
<klepas> yep
<kamstrup> on child's play: I'm planning to add an official logo and optimize the vertex count...
<volvoguy> probably not enough to piss anyone off, but it breaks consistency. 
<klepas> agreed
<klepas> actually
<kamstrup> consistency is really important
<klepas> could one of you guys keep notes?
<kamstrup> ubuntulog is logging the conversation
<kamstrup> but I'm taking notes too...
<klepas> just edit 'the-list-v1.txt', and make a v2 out of it
<klepas> then post it later
<klepas> for the ML
<klepas> and i need to go
<klepas> :( :(
<volvoguy> we'll fill you in later klepas. 
<klepas> alrighty
<volvoguy> we'll just go through the list and make comments. 
<klepas> i'll stay in the channel
<volvoguy> ok.
<volvoguy> kamstrup, art.ubuntu.com doesn't show the artists name by default, does it?
<klepas> keep going!
<volvoguy> klepas, we will. :)
<klepas> click on their username
<volvoguy> klepas, oh, i see it. 
<klepas> it will show you their real name (if they added it) and their email
<volvoguy> i'm an admin there, so i'm sure i could find it eventually. i just missed it at first glance. 
<kamstrup> How about http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=23218
<volvoguy> i don't have a problem with that one. 
<kamstrup> Seems okay. It doesn't say "Ubuntu" but the circle of friends is there...
<kamstrup> I dislike out-of-focus stuff like the plants in the foreground... but that's just me
<volvoguy> yeah. acceptible for a non-calendar wallpaper.
<kamstrup> check
<kamstrup> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/50
<volvoguy> i think a lot of people do that on purpose so icons are easier to see on the desktop.
<kamstrup> Im sort of a low-contrast man instead of an out-of-focus man :-P
<volvoguy> gotcha. :)
<volvoguy> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/50
<volvoguy> *sigh*
<kamstrup> ?
<volvoguy> i think we should wait until he makes his SVG versions available. 
<kamstrup> It has really friendly eyes that badger
<klepas> it is @ 1600x1200
<volvoguy> the illustration is good, but the colors just make me cringe. 
<klepas> so it can be resized to smaller versions
<klepas> i like it personally
<klepas> :)
<klepas> more than http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=23218
<volvoguy> SVG not for resolution issues, but for a transparent background so users can change the color. 
<klepas> true
<klepas> mmh
<klepas> he said he'll release the SVG version
<kamstrup> I think we should "okay" on the condition that the artist provide a transparent version ( be it svg or png)
<klepas> i'll check if he submitted it to the wallpapers
<volvoguy> klepas, yes he did. that's why i'm not saying no outright. 
<klepas> not in the incoming wallpapers list
<klepas> and i need to really go now
<klepas> Cheers guys
<klepas> remember to post what you've edited and noted on the ML
<volvoguy> later klepas. have a good time. :)
<volvoguy> ok. is that it for the kids? 
<kamstrup> ok lets move on
<kamstrup> Teenage/cool.
<kamstrup> 'Ubuntu': http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=302&c=5
<volvoguy> actually, if we can find it, there was another on ubuntuforms that i really liked for kids. 
<volvoguy> it was another badger, some in front of a fan, some jumping out of a plane... very good illustrations. 
<kamstrup> If you go dig for it, I'll ready some links for you
<volvoguy> sound familiar? 
<kamstrup> Yes, but that wasn't wallpapers was it?
<volvoguy> i'll find it later on my own time. 
<kamstrup> k
<volvoguy> no, but i'm sure we could make it a wallpaper. :)
<kamstrup> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=302&c=5 : okay I guess. Not exceptionally cool though
<klepas|afk> i really like that one for the teenagers [http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=302&c=5] . It's simple, consistent with everything else. I like it.
<klepas|afk> and yes i should be gone... just putting on shoes... :-P
<volvoguy> gimme a sec while you're loading up the next batch. i started my own text file for notes but i think i'm going to mark up Pascal's text file instead. 
<klepas|afk> go for it
<kamstrup> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=22500
<klepas|afk> as long as you post all the extra notes on the ML
<volvoguy> i will. 
<klepas|afk> :o)
<volvoguy> i just have a million windows open and firefox's memory leaks are rearing their ugly head. 
<klepas|afk> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=22500 - is cool, but not in consistency with the logo and the logo text
<klepas|afk> and is not an SVG
<kamstrup> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=22500: The overlay logo hurts my eyes... This does not comply with official logo
<kamstrup> no go
<klepas|afk> but large enough anyway (1600x1200)
<klepas|afk> no go
<klepas|afk> agreed
<kamstrup> scratch that one then
<mpathy> someone read the mail from jeff? wouldnt it be better to talk about the calendar first? just asking :)
<klepas|afk> the glasses?
<klepas|afk> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/1
<kamstrup> ohhh... the glasses
<kamstrup> mpathy: we're finally getting something done, let's keep doing it :-)
<kamstrup> Are they fully CG?
<klepas|afk> mpathy: we said to do the calender afterwards
<klepas|afk> and I'm out
<klepas|afk> ciao!!
<kamstrup> cheers
<mpathy> okay ;)
<volvoguy> ok. i'm caught up to the end of the kids section. did i miss the whole teens section? 
<volvoguy> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=302&c=5
<volvoguy> absolutely beautiful.
<mpathy> btw, someone mentioned on the lug meeting yesterday: "wallpaper, teenager section? uhm.. does that means we get some naked babes again?" ;)
<kamstrup> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=302&c=5 got accepted
<volvoguy> lol. i'm sure canonical has lots of comps that didn't get used. 
<kamstrup> ... in the teenagers category
<volvoguy> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=22500
<kamstrup> I'm trying to dig out the "true" license on those sun glasses
<volvoguy> i don't like. 
<volvoguy> logo trademark issues. 
<mpathy> volvoguy: me too.. the wrong font and the logo is also modified.. a no-no
<volvoguy> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/1
<volvoguy> has anyone emailed the author to see where he got the glasses image?
<kamstrup> If the glasses are not CG, then they wont do. We can't have a picture of an iPod either can we?
<lukacu> http://sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=view&id=258771
<volvoguy> i dunno. are those a particular brand of sunglasses? 
<kamstrup> Nike
<kamstrup> the logo got digitally removed
<mpathy> personally I dont like the glasses also.. whats the connection between ubuntu and glasses?
<volvoguy> ah ha.
<kamstrup> it's cool
<kamstrup> all the cool kids are wearing em
<kamstrup> ;-P
<mpathy> kamstrup: okay it seems to be that finally it happened that I am not cool anymore :oP
<mpathy> ;)
<volvoguy> it's a nice image. i think the photograph and nike would need to give us license to use the image though.
<kamstrup> Even though they prolly are the coolest wallp we've got, I think we have to make it a no
<volvoguy> kamstrup, i agree.
<kamstrup> :-( okay, a no then
<kamstrup> Now to: http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=591&c=5
<kamstrup> wow
<volvoguy> kamstrup, if you want to send a no nonsense email to the wallpaper author, maybe he can straighten things out for us. 
<mpathy> btw, KUbuntu has some very good artwork! perhaps also look there and modfiy?
<kamstrup> that's seriously teenage-ish
<kamstrup> volvoguy: Maybe it's a bit late... For Dapper maybe?
<volvoguy> that's what the powerpuff girls use on their ubuntu machines. 
<kamstrup> volvoguy: LOL
<volvoguy> i don't see anything wrong with it, but i don't happen to like it personally.
* kamstrup is pondering
<volvoguy> we could suggest that one of the bubbles be the circle element
<kamstrup> really "power puff" power in that one, but I'm afraid the white background will hurt peoples eyes in the long run
<kamstrup> I'd like to something along those lines (or modification of) for the childrens category
<volvoguy> i don't think we need to make that call. i use all white backgrounds at times. 
<kamstrup> ok... I'm prolly just a whiner
<kamstrup> :-)
<volvoguy> ok. it's a keeper then. 
<volvoguy> on to abstract. 
<mpathy> I have some which I could think of for "teenager" section
<volvoguy> sure. fire away.
<mpathy> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/pre1/29045-1.jpg
<volvoguy> by the way, i haven't gotten around to putting any of my SVG wallpapers on art.ubuntu.com yet either, so feel free to nominate any of those too. hint, hint. :)
<mpathy> oh sorry thats the main link http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=29045
<mpathy> second one: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/files/29134-ubuntu_screen3_6.jpg
<volvoguy> can i assume that the actual download is a wallpaper and not a screenshot?
<mpathy> yes. there is a main link.. moment please
<mpathy> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=29134
<mpathy> and the third one:
<mpathy> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=28371
<kamstrup> volvoguy: I bleive that you "Swirls" are nominated in the abstract category?
<volvoguy> i'm not crazy about the first, but the second is awesome - for either teens or abstract. 
<kamstrup> volvoguy: ... but your "Squares" is excellent also
<volvoguy> kamstrup, oh yeah - the one our webmaster uploaded as a demo. hehe. :)
<volvoguy> mpathy, i'm not crazy about number 3 either personally. 
<volvoguy> kamstrup, what do you think about mpathy's three suggestions?
<kamstrup> All of them are great but I have some concers about 1 and 3, but 2 is good...
<kamstrup> except that I'd really like 2 to have been in a transparent format
<volvoguy> i agree. 
<volvoguy> kamstrup, i can put in the notes to email the author to see if he has SVG's available. 
<mpathy> i like the second, if it is not to abstract.. agree with the transparence!  whats about the first one? I think its really nice or is it to much GNU for Ubuntu? :oPP ;o)
<kamstrup> mpathy: I think it is dangerous to start pushing other trademarks/logos than Ubuntu (and to some extent gnome)
<volvoguy> mpathy, i get either a druggie or eastern religion vibe from number one (whether either is implied or not). 
<kamstrup> volvoguy: are you noting the stuff on 2?
<volvoguy> kamstrup, yeah... number two - teens or abstract though? 
<kamstrup> abs
<volvoguy> k
<kamstrup> Moving to the Abstract category
<kamstrup> ======================
<volvoguy> got it. 
<kamstrup> 'Ubuntu Breezy Badger-mouse' (one without the creature!): http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=28693
<kamstrup> I don't think the words "Breezy Badger" should appear in a wallpaper
<volvoguy> looks good to me.
<kamstrup> Furthermore the lozenged logo has been modified. I think there are some official Canonical guidelines for this (Id really like to discuss this matter at an other point in timwe).
<kamstrup> volvoguy: I suspect you of modifying the lozenge logo in Squares also..? :-)
<volvoguy> i think it's just been lengthened a bit. 
<volvoguy> kamstrup, there was no lozenge version when i did mine. 
<kamstrup> volvoguy: ok
<volvoguy> how about an "ok, but modify lozenge to conform to current specs"?
<kamstrup> On the wallp in question, I think the the lozenge has been shortened in height
<kamstrup> hmmmm.... what about transparency?
<kamstrup> Especially in the Abstract category, I rate transparency really high
<volvoguy> it's possible, but don't know if it's necessary on everything. 
<kamstrup> It would be up to the voters to decide also.
<volvoguy> it's GPL though so we can do what we want
<volvoguy> so..... "fix lozenge and potential transparency"?
<kamstrup> ok, I OK it then... (under the above conditions)
<volvoguy> got it. 
<kamstrup> 'Swirl': http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/3
<volvoguy> next is mine so i can't vote. 
<volvoguy> :)
<kamstrup> Hehe
<kamstrup> Definitely, go.
<volvoguy> aww... thanks. :)
<volvoguy> i won't tell you what inspired that. 
<volvoguy> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=29526
<kamstrup> The exact same things as for http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=28693 applies
<volvoguy> same author as the the orange one... again, i like it. 
<volvoguy> ok. same conditions then. 
<kamstrup> wait
<volvoguy> yes sir? 
<kamstrup> on http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=28693 I'd also like to remove the words "Breezy Badger"
<volvoguy> how about two versions? i think the "code names" make it more personable. 
<kamstrup> Yes, but "Breezy Badger" is just the name for the development version right?
<volvoguy> and gosh, we're only talking like 3Mb of graphics so far. 
<volvoguy> no, the release is called breezy badger. 
<kamstrup> officially
<volvoguy> and/or 5.10
<kamstrup> ?
<volvoguy> yep.
<volvoguy> want me to go ask in #ubuntu?
<kamstrup> I'd also like to add that 'Ubuntu Breezy Badger-mouse' and 'Basse' are remarkably alike
<kamstrup> volvoguy: No! Well be flooded!
<kamstrup> :-D
<volvoguy> they're similar to my swirls too - but it's all about personal preference. :) 
<volvoguy> and basse doesn't have the mouse/badger thingie on it. 
<kamstrup> It's just because we should narrow down to three choices
<volvoguy> when did we make that rule? lol. 
<kamstrup> klepas and I dictated it :D
<volvoguy> i think it'd be better to say - let's squeeze as much as we can in X megabytes. 
<volvoguy> i wanted to do the same with themes - stick to one theme but make as many color variations as we could get done before the release. 
<volvoguy> it all boils down to the motto - it's all about choice. 
<kamstrup> If we have a fixed MB barrier high-res PNGs are going to have a rough day
<volvoguy> we'll throw 'em at pngcrush and see what happens. 
<kamstrup> On my Ogmore pngcrush reduced it from 1.4MB to 1.2MB
<volvoguy> just for you, i added "possibly eliminate breezy badger text" for that first abstract. 
<kamstrup> :)
<volvoguy> shall we continue? my 15 minutes were up about a half hour ago. :)
<volvoguy> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/23
<kamstrup> hehe... If you're up to it
<volvoguy> i like it - again, maybe add transparency.
<kamstrup> exactly my words.
<kamstrup> I like how the circle of friends (cof) looks edged-in
<kamstrup> +1
<volvoguy> yeah. we can do that with an alpha transparent png or SVG, so it's all good. 
<volvoguy> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=29567
<volvoguy> just looking at the thumbnails, i really like 'em. again, maybe add transparency. 
<kamstrup> These are actually very much along the lines of how I imagined the Ubuntu Elements calendar :-D
<kamstrup> Yeah, but they're SVGs so that would be easy.
<volvoguy> well, there's already three, perhaps we can talk the author into making three more. :)
<kamstrup> volvoguy: that's an idea
<volvoguy> i'll note it. 
<volvoguy> http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=21125
<volvoguy> i like it. logo may need an outline to make it pop a bit more. 
<kamstrup> There's nothing really to complain about except the usual transparency.
<kamstrup> One thing we have forgotten...
<volvoguy> textured background might make that slightly more difficult on this one. 
<volvoguy> what's that?
<kamstrup> How and if we should enforce the Ubuntu palette
<kamstrup> That would make transparency a _requirement_ for most wallps
<volvoguy> for a universe artwork package? i'd say it doesn't matter. for calendar images, it should be enforced. 
<volvoguy> well, we can't ship transparent background images with a default background color. 
<kamstrup> What about long term? If we stand a chance for main inclusion in Dapper
<kamstrup> volvoguy: I'm not so sure about that.
<volvoguy> i don't know how you'd do that. if a background color is specified, it's not transparent. 
<kamstrup> The wallpaper dialog has a per-wp background set
<kamstrup> it has to store that info somewhere
<kamstrup> perhaps there is a global place for this
<volvoguy> but the SVG file can't tell the wallpaper dialog to use a particular color set. 
<kamstrup> No but a .deb could (maybe)
<volvoguy> trust me, i've researched it. the best i came up with is including a readme with the SVG file in a tgz file with some suggested background colors. 
<volvoguy> you're free to pick the brains of the devs in their channel at a later date though. :)
<kamstrup> I'll look into it, in the early phases for Dapper.
<kamstrup> Maybe we could patch gnome-background-properties
<volvoguy> back to color palette.... if a universe background gets promoted to main for a future release, we could then just require that they adjust the colors to conform to the palette. 
<kamstrup> Yeah.
<volvoguy> a small price to pay to have your artwork on thousands of desktops. 
<volvoguy> ok. are we ready to move into the "realistic" category? 
<kamstrup> I think we should postpone this discussion for Dapper. But we should reach a conclusion on put it on the wiki.
<volvoguy> i think it already says somewhere that artwork to be considered for inclusion in main must conform to the official palette. 
<kamstrup> About: http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=21125, there's no real complaints from me although it doesn't rock my world
<volvoguy> i could be wrong, but i think i wrote it. :)
<volvoguy> ok. 
<kamstrup> volvoguy: It is mentioned but I think it's in an icon-context
<volvoguy> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=615&c=5
<volvoguy> kamstrup, you're probably right.
<volvoguy> i like, but the logo is blurry. 
<kamstrup> I noticed that too
<kamstrup> good composition
<volvoguy> looks like jpg artifacts. might be fixed by a simple re-export if the author still has the layered gimp file. 
<kamstrup> I still think that we should narrow each category down to three or four choices.
<volvoguy> well, since it's just the two of us doing this right now, let's finish the list and feed it to the mailing list and see what input they give. 
<kamstrup> Give this +1 under the condition that the logo is fixed
<volvoguy> got it. 
<volvoguy> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=264&c=5
<volvoguy> also remember that this list is only Pascal's initial picks. we may add and delete a lot before we actually get to a final vote stage. 
<volvoguy> i think this last one is beauty-full. 
<kamstrup> Yes, nice composition again.
<kamstrup> The out-of-focus thing still hurts my eyes (literally) though
<kamstrup> The reason that I'm whining so much about the out of focus is that I feel actual pain in my eyes when I look at it.
<volvoguy> you can just use a different one then. :) i almost always  go for the out of focus ones so i can see my desktop icons better. 
<kamstrup> I just fear that I'm not the only one in the world with this problem.
<kamstrup> As I mentioned before; Im more into low-contrast
<kamstrup> gives the same sort of icon visibility
<volvoguy> and i'm not the only one without it. :) and acoustic guitar apparently hurts my brothers ears, but loud rap music doesn't. it's all personal preference. 
<kamstrup> yeah, anyways, +1 from me.
<volvoguy> :)
<volvoguy> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=871&c=5
<volvoguy> interesting. 
<kamstrup> wait...
<volvoguy> yes?
<kamstrup> It is not the real ubuntu font in the afforementined wp
<kamstrup> On http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=871&c=5 ; Really nice. Is the ubuntu logo blurred, or is it just because the main image is friggin sharp ;-P
<volvoguy> judging by the date of the first comment, probably not. that font has only been released recently (and only in breezy unless snatched from someone elses machine)
<kamstrup> volvoguy: Then I'd say +1 under the cond. that the font is fixed
<volvoguy> noted. 
<volvoguy> i'd say the logo on the last one is a bit to antialiased. 
<volvoguy> *and* the image is particularly sharp. 
<volvoguy> don't female mantis eat the males after they mate? is that really the message we want to send to the community? lol. 
<kamstrup> Think of the kids! SOmeone think of the children!
<volvoguy> it's a cool image, but i'm undecided about it's use as a wallpaper. 
<kamstrup> CSetting the mantis as my actual background tells me that the logo will have to be sharper. It looks a bit unprofessional to be atm.
<volvoguy> "mommy, where is daddy?"
<kamstrup> lol
<volvoguy> i think i have to vote no.
<kamstrup> why
<volvoguy> you answered your own question. :)
<volvoguy> why? 
<volvoguy> it's not really abstract. 
<kamstrup> the logo or the man-eater thing?
<kamstrup> Oh, but we are in the realism category
<volvoguy> it's not a neutral landscape image. 
<volvoguy> it's a big bug. 
<kamstrup> Thinking about it, a mantis is actually sending a message...
<kamstrup> a negative one.
<kamstrup> We can't have bugs in Breezy
<kamstrup> all in all -1 from me
<mpathy> back again!
<volvoguy> that's a good reason too. i'll note that. :)
<kamstrup> welcome back to the flip side mpathy 
<kamstrup> On to http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=372&c=5
<mpathy> my boss has his birthday so I am full with secco right now and in a funny mood ;)
<volvoguy> i'm going to be up all night. i can tell already. 
<volvoguy> don't like the tagline in that one. 
<mpathy> kamstrup: what with this? I dont see the sense of the subtitle
<kamstrup> the logo is un-antialised
<volvoguy> not particularly fond of the photograph either. 
<kamstrup> There's also a political message in it.
<kamstrup> We can't go with it
<kamstrup> -1
<volvoguy> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=527&c=5
<mpathy> perhaps I retouch this pic to a badger, but I fear I get spam from animal experts ;)
<mpathy> http://linuxart.com/photos/03jul12-zoo,_africa/1620/0712-104718.jpg
<volvoguy> my favorite flower. 
<volvoguy> i'm all over this one. it could possibly use the "linux for human beings" tagline, but not necessary. 
<volvoguy> mpathy, is that a badger? it looks like a meerkat. 
<kamstrup> volvoguy: The image is good, but has a lot of stuff catching your eye in it, +1
<mpathy> volvoguy: no its not, I said I want to retoch it but I fear I get in trouble with people ;)
<kamstrup> Setting the images as wallpapers really helps me...
<volvoguy> kamstrup, yeah - a little busy, but pretty. i'll note that. 
<kamstrup> Just right-click from Firef.
<mpathy> did you now that the german army has a tank who is also called badger? perhaps we can add a "I love the NRA" section ;)
* mpathy got to much pro-secco
<volvoguy> mpathy, gotcha. gotta make sure you use open source type images. :)
<volvoguy> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/16
<volvoguy> i like. 
<volvoguy> i think it's the first "subtle" image we've seen. 
<kamstrup> I like it too. The image itself is better than the sun flower if you ask me, but the transparent logo is not exactly my cup of tea
<kamstrup> Also the logo is a bit crammed into the right...
<volvoguy> the logo could be a bit darker, but i think it works. it keeps the flowers looking delicate. 
<kamstrup> right
<kamstrup> The out-of-focus works good in this image actually ;-)
<volvoguy> :-)
<kamstrup> I think it's because there are no visible shapes in it
<kamstrup> My eye does not try to focus the non-focusable
<kamstrup> :-D
<volvoguy> by the way, the yellow flower wasn't a sunflower. :)
<volvoguy> this is probably local slang for it, but around here it's called a "black-eyed susan". it's in the daisy family. 
<volvoguy> i had a HUGE sunflower crop this year. i have hundreds of images that i still need to go through to see if anything is wallpaper material. 
<volvoguy> anyway - http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=838&c=5
<volvoguy> haha
<volvoguy> "badgers? we don't need no stinking badgers."
<kamstrup> afk 2s
<volvoguy> i need a beverage break. brb. 
<mpathy> volvoguy: ..I surely would ask Mr. LeSage before (as mentioned in the to do list)
<volvoguy> mpathy, good, good. :)
<kamstrup> back
<kamstrup> damn it-s hard to hit ctrl-alt-left with one hand only!
<mpathy> use the ctrl and the alt on the right side *gg*
<kamstrup> About: http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showimage.php?i=838&c=5 then count me -1
<kamstrup> mpathy: I tried but I have Alt Gr on the right side
<kamstrup> doesn't work as alt
<mpathy> oh okay.. my joke doesnt work :)
<volvoguy> back. 
<kamstrup> get back...
<kamstrup> get back...
<volvoguy> i agree kamstrup. good in concept i think, but the image just didn't turn out. 
<kamstrup> get back to where you once belong'
<volvoguy> i belong in bed. or doing my bills. neither one is getting done tonight. :-P
<kamstrup> hehe
<kamstrup> My masters isn't exactly writing itself either
<volvoguy> i wish i could be writing a masters. 
<kamstrup> why can't you
<kamstrup> ?
<volvoguy> i'm on workers comp/disability from an injury at work. you're not allowed to make money or educate yourself while you're trying to get fixed. a stupid law if you ask me. 
<volvoguy> luckily for me and the open source world, there's no money involved. :) 
<volvoguy> and i got a free laptop for being on the laptop testing team. 
<volvoguy> ok. should we go through the "others" section or call it a night? 
<kamstrup> volvoguy: oh damn 
<kamstrup> I'd humbly like to suggest my Ogmore image for the realism cat.
<volvoguy> i vote no. 
<volvoguy> just kidding.
<volvoguy> what's the link. 
<kamstrup> http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Ubuntu-Ogmore_1024x768.jpg
<kamstrup> or just http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/52
<kamstrup> mainly because it's a transparent photography
<volvoguy> oh yeah. totally. my only suggestion might be a bigger logo, with perhaps some transparency to the logo. 
<volvoguy> if that makes sense. 
<volvoguy> my pain meds are wearing off so now it's the pain talking instead of the drugs. 
<kamstrup> I tried with a transparent logo, but it looked kinda strange with some bg colors
<volvoguy> understandable. 
<volvoguy> it's fine the way it is then. 
<volvoguy> it's on the list. 
<volvoguy> how about i show off mine and we call it a night for tonight? 
<kamstrup> k
<volvoguy> http://www.volvoguy.net/ubuntu/
<kamstrup> (it's mid-day here in Denmark)
<volvoguy> keep in mind - all SVG, all transparent backgrounds. 
<volvoguy> most are pretty minimalistic, 'cause that's just the way i am. 
<kamstrup> that's the way I like it (aha aha)
<volvoguy> near the bottom it's hard to tell, but most have either some sort of shadow or emboss effect. 
<volvoguy> my fav is probably the one with the larger earth near the bottom.
<volvoguy> and the snowflakes (man, was that a task), but that's seasonal, so it probably doesn't belong. 
<kamstrup> Yes it caught my eye too
<kamstrup> The ones where the COF is enclosing the earth can feel bit too "World domination"-like
<kamstrup> My favorites are definitely Swirl and then Squares
<volvoguy> i actually traced all those snowflakes by hand from some scientific research done in the 1920's. 
<kamstrup> The glossy loges at the bottom are great, but maybe a bit too minimalistic. Id like to see them with a bit more composition
<volvoguy> composition as in... on top of a photo? 
<volvoguy> or just placed differently on the screen? 
<volvoguy> keep in mind that some of these were created before the first release of Ubuntu. :o)
<kamstrup> I'm not thinking of anything particularly. My brain just needs some shapes in the image. Be it swirls, squares, triangles, photos...
<volvoguy> ok. gotcha. 
<volvoguy> so i'll add the squares to the list. 
<volvoguy> how about the earth with the smaller COF? 
<kamstrup> Perhaps the guy with the three svgs we reviewed can use your snowflakes for a winter image?
<volvoguy> ahh. yes. i'll note that. 
* kamstrup is trying it out
<kamstrup> ...
<kamstrup> I think I would have moved the COF off center
<kamstrup> Up to the right
<volvoguy> that's always a tough decision when dealing with a asymmetrical graphic like the earth. 
<kamstrup> So that it intersects the globes circumference
<kamstrup> not usre though, looks great anyway
<volvoguy> believe it or not, everything is centered absolutely right now. 
<volvoguy> well, since I kept the "no's" on the list, i'll put that earth image on the list as a maybe and see what happens. how's that? 
<kamstrup> yeah. ok
<volvoguy> category? abstract? 
<kamstrup> abs i guess
<volvoguy> what was that? 
<kamstrup> volvoguy: I'm trying to send you the blue-eart-logo-small changes I'm speaking of
<volvoguy> kamstrup, try again. it was pointing to a non-existant directory. 
<kamstrup> yeehaw
<volvoguy> ooooh. i see. 
<kamstrup> but ofcourse it's a matter of personal taste
<volvoguy> yeah. i'd have to stare at it a while. :)
<volvoguy> not bad though. 
<kamstrup> That's the great thing about svg.
<kamstrup> It's so easy to work with in this way
<volvoguy> i know. i love it. 
<volvoguy> whew. 
<volvoguy> ok. i need to do something that is not this for a while. 
<volvoguy> i'll email my notes to the mailing list.
<volvoguy> kamstrup, thanks for being so proactive with all this recently. we needed a kick in the butt. 
<kamstrup> NP. At some point in the not-so-distant future we need a clear cut development policy for Dapper. But that is better left for after 13th of Oct.
<kamstrup> Will you contact the guy with the three SVGs?
<volvoguy> yes. we'll probably be passing the torch of art team lead, even if it's only temporarily, because at some point during dapper drake i'll be having surgery and will disapper completely. 
<volvoguy> yeah. i can contact him. 
<volvoguy> just as a "maybe" for now until we get some feedback from everyone else though. 
<kamstrup> ofcourse
<volvoguy> and on that note, i bid you all a good evening/morning. :) at any rate i'll talk to you later. bye for now. 
<kamstrup> cheers!
<kamstrup> well, Ill get on with RL then ;-P Cheers
<mpathy> back again
<mpathy> current state?
<klepas|afk> same
<klepas> mpathy: check the mailings, Aaron has posted the edits we've done. :)
<mpathy> lost the link to the mockup of the GDM which I should try to bring to life..
<mpathy> somebody remember
<klepas> yea
<klepas> http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/473/ubuntulogin019io.png
<klepas> there you go :)
<klepas> i'll be out for a wee while longer
<klepas> but i definitely will be back
<klepas> cheers
<mpathy> klepas|afk: do you know the person who made that?
<lllmanulll> Hey there, what's the ubuntu font package again ?
<klepas|afk> sorry, can't remember
<mpathy> klepas|afk: you said it to me but I can't remember where or when (or if *g*)
<klepas> the font package?
<klepas> or the GDM mockup?
<lllmanulll> Nevermind, I found the font .ttf file on the wiki :)
<lllmanulll> Thanks
<mpathy> but it shouldnt be this difficult if I can get the single parts of it - if I get them today I make it till tomorrow *g*
<mpathy> klepas: the mockup
<klepas> http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/473/ubuntulogin019io.png
<mpathy> klepas: no I mean, the buttons etc. they should be a own transparent png
<klepas> i can get you the author of the GDM
<klepas> [mockup] 
<klepas> http://www.livejournal.com/users/bmgz/
<klepas> i don't personally know where to get the individual files for it
<mpathy> okay..
<mpathy> if I have the parts I could do it in one day.. otherwise I had to build it similar, not 100% the same
<klepas> yea, i know
<klepas> see if you can contact bmgz
<klepas> on it already
<klepas> :)
<mpathy> i didnt find a mail adress but I send a comment
<klepas> same
<klepas> Naja, shau mal da!
<klepas> I didn't know you're German too. :o)
<mpathy> bin ich ;)
<klepas> Ich lebe in Australien seit 8 jahre.
<klepas> Komm aus Mainz
<mpathy> I found a hint.. He said that he send his mockup to the ubuntu-artwork mailing list so it should be there..
<mpathy> Ich komme aus der Umgebung von Stuttgart.
<mpathy> I live exactly between the GUADEC 2005 and the aKademy 2004 ;)
<klepas> Geil.
<klepas> the email in particular is called:
<klepas> "[ubuntu-art]  Mock-up question"
<klepas> wait
<klepas> that's Henrik's comments on the mockup submission
<klepas> sorry
<mpathy> okay.. nice that you look because I am not so organized on my office mac..
<klepas> Search for "bmgz"
<klepas> he uses the same sender name
<klepas> nick name
<klepas> nup
<klepas> no files from him
<klepas> just 2 mockups
<klepas> fullscreen GNOME splash
<klepas> and the GDM theme mockup
<newz2000> Howdy folks.
<mpathy> klepas: wrote him a mail..
<klepas> :)
<klepas> Moin
<newz2000> howdy
<klepas> mpathy: thanks mate
<mpathy> klepas: the mockup with the fullscreen splash seems to be tricky, but we should definitely send canonical a like how they like it and if someone can write a patch (what I believe is needed for sth like that)
<klepas> good idea
<klepas> alright, _completely_ off topic: http://www.go-quiz.com/subculture/subculture-test.php
<klepas> what the hell...?
<klepas> worst web page i've seen all week
<mpathy> hope, at least for "drapper drake" I could offer more than just ideas *sigh* ;)
<klepas> yea
<klepas> I think the art community will have their big chance with Dapper
<klepas> I think we should stick something like this over all ubuntu artwork related webpages: http://wombat.nuxified.com/files/wip.jpg
<klepas> ;-P
<mpathy> back again
<klepas> I might go
<klepas> really sleepy
<klepas> good luck with the GDM mate
<klepas> night guys
<mpathy> thx
<nicholaspaul> good morning everyone. 
<newz2000> I'm about to upload Vijay's background pictures to Flickr... any tips for making this work smoothly?
<newz2000> Should I mark them as public?
<nicholaspaul> ive never used it , sorry. 
<newz2000> no prob. This is my first time too, but volvo guy suggested flickr as an upload area. We'll see how it works.
<nicholaspaul> let us know how it goes
<newz2000> It works smooth. The only trick is that "tags" are not text messages but potential search terms. THere's an optional description field you see after upload, which is a little confusing.
<newz2000> oh. Flickr resized the images to 1024px wide max. :-(
<newz2000> Anyone here use the art.ubuntu website yet?
<lllmanulll> Huh, yup
<newz2000> do the images, once approved or whatever get moved to the aup site for long-term storage, or do they have to permanantly resized somewhere else?
<lllmanulll> Hmm, seems they do get transferred
<newz2000> ok. That's good.
<lllmanulll> You can tell by trying to download a wallpaper and see where it comes from
<newz2000> Ah.
<lllmanulll> (Seems to come from art.ubuntu.com)
<newz2000> Here, check these out: http://www.bearfruit.org/images/VijayKishan/
<lllmanulll> Looks great
<newz2000> ok, gotta work. ttl.
<nicholaspaul>     anyone panicking yet?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-05
<lllmanulll> Hey there, I thought I'd post a small message : I thought of starting an "ubuntu|cities" series of wallpapers, and have made a try at making three of them :
<lllmanulll> ubuntu|paris
<lllmanulll> ubuntu|venezia
<lllmanulll> ubuntu|praha
<lllmanulll> They're all available here :
<lllmanulll> http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/wallpapers/
<lllmanulll> Hope other people can contribute with, for instance, their home city :)
<klepas> Anyone awake?
<klepas> ...
<klepas> Still here.
<nicholaspaul> I come with messages.
<nicholaspaul> Volvoguy is dead/dying/crying/staring at the wall 
<nicholaspaul> But do not fear, he'll be back in 24hrs
<nicholaspaul> klepas|Zzz can you grab the notes? 
<klepas|Zzz> waking me up..
<klepas|Zzz> what's up?
<klepas|Zzz> nicholaspaul: what's up?
<nicholaspaul> want a coffee? 
<nicholaspaul> Volvoguy just told me to ask you to grab the notes.... 
<klepas|Zzz> maybe later
<klepas|Zzz> yep, got them
<nicholaspaul> phew. My job is done
<nicholaspaul> well, kind of. Once i fix my hard drive.........
<klepas|Zzz> the notes he mailed as an attachment on the ML
<nicholaspaul> aaahhh yes i have those. 
<klepas|Zzz> same
<klepas|Zzz> so, what about them?
<nicholaspaul> i dunno. thats all V'guy wanted . He said you would know. :S
<klepas|Zzz> alrighty
<klepas|Zzz> i think i know
<nicholaspaul> hey do you know anything about mounting hard drives? 
<klepas|Zzz> yea?
<klepas|Zzz> mount
<klepas|Zzz> $ mount device_name
<nicholaspaul> i put an HFS+ disk in, did fdisk, mkfs and edited fstab. 
<nicholaspaul> but it looks like the disk is the same size as the other hard drive. 
<klepas|Zzz> is it supposed to?
<klepas|Zzz> [same size] 
<nicholaspaul> no, the master is 6Gb, the slave is 20Gb.
<klepas|Zzz> alrighty
<klepas|Zzz> $ less /etc/fstab
<klepas|Zzz> what have you got there?
<nicholaspaul> my CDROM's mount to /media/____ so i made the  slave hdd mount to /media/rothko 
<nicholaspaul> lemme see....
<nicholaspaul> # /etc/fstab: static file system information.
<nicholaspaul> #
<nicholaspaul> # <file system> <mount point>   <type>  <options>       <dump>  <pass>
<nicholaspaul> proc            /proc           proc    defaults        0       0
<nicholaspaul> /dev/hda1       /               ext3    defaults,errors=remount-ro 0       1
<nicholaspaul> /dev/hda5       none            swap    sw              0       0
<nicholaspaul> /dev/hdb        /media/cdrom0   udf,iso9660 ro,user,noauto  0       0
<nicholaspaul> /dev/hdc        /media/cdrom1   udf,iso9660 ro,user,noauto  0       0
<nicholaspaul> /dev/fd0        /media/floppy0  auto    rw,user,noauto  0       0
<nicholaspaul> /dev/hdd3       /media/rothko   ext3    defaults,errors=remount-ro 0       1
<klepas|Zzz> alright
<klepas|Zzz> now to mount that drive
<klepas|Zzz> # mount /media/rothko
<nicholaspaul> i used 'sudo mount'...  
<nicholaspaul> special device /dev/hdd3 does not exist
<klepas|Zzz> sure
<klepas|Zzz> mmh
<klepas|Zzz> my dad would know
<klepas|Zzz> but he's out
<klepas|Zzz> try #ubuntu
<klepas|Zzz> i'm going to go back to sleep for an hour or so longer
<klepas|Zzz> and then check new submissions @ art.ubuntu.com
<klepas|Zzz> see you around
<nicholaspaul> oh ok, i'll do that. thx klepas
<nicholaspaul> oh yes, i have a couple there... 
<klepas|Zzz> no worries
<nicholaspaul> you bet - see ya :)
<klepas|Zzz> :o)
* klepas|Zzz is sleeping again
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:kamstrup] : Wrap up for Breezy and get a coherent development framework ready early in the Dapper cycle
<klepas> Hi kamstrup
<kamstrup> hi klepas 
<klepas> just woke up from a nap :)
<kamstrup> I had an insane idea last night...
<klepas> you going to share?
<kamstrup> I emphasize that it might be _insane_ ;-P
<klepas> doesn't matter
<kamstrup> Would it be possible to add a new image "format", where images where actually small libs drawing gdk pixbufs using cairo?
<kamstrup> I'm just browsing around in the source of libgdk_pixbuf and it seems it would be possible in theory
<klepas> no idea
<kamstrup> It would allow for some seriously cool stuff.
<klepas> I actually use Suse and hacked KDE
<klepas> :-P
<klepas> Mostly
<klepas> my GNOME lib knowledge is, well, low
<kamstrup> But also open up for some serious security issues... Images being libraries actually executing code... :-S
<klepas> yep
<kamstrup> hehe... I'm also inquiring #gtk atm... :-D
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> any luck
<kamstrup> No replies yet. Trying bot #gtk and #gnome-love...
<kamstrup> There's some basic stuff I need to be clear on before I waste any time on this...
<kamstrup> I don't dare mention to them what my true intentions is, so I'm asking genric type of questions about gdk-pixpufs
<kamstrup> :-D
<klepas> rof rof!
<klepas> I love pngcrush
<klepas> just adding wallpapers from the submission list om AUC.
<klepas> resized the file size of a wallpaper from 323 Kb down to236
<klepas> :)
<klepas> still on?
<kamstrup> yea a little... :)
<klepas> seen KDE 3.5 screenshots yet?
<kamstrup> no
<klepas> http://www.kde-look.org/content/pre1/29658-1.jpg
* kamstrup looking ...
<kamstrup> wow
<kamstrup> is that the default layout?
<klepas> I'm not sure.
<klepas> Hi Andy!
<AndyFitz> g'day klepas
<klepas> Just like to say well done on the Etiquette icons :)
<AndyFitz> doing an emergency revision of ubuntu-title.ttf 
<klepas> revision?
* klepas used several icons for http://wombat.nuxified.com/files/wip.jpg
<AndyFitz> thanks mate.  
<klepas> You live in Brisbane I hear, no?
<kamstrup> Gotta go. Cheers!
<AndyFitz> yep I'm here in brisbane au
<klepas> Canberra.
<AndyFitz> http://lugvegas.org/sneakpeak.svgz  
<AndyFitz> for anyone interested in etiquette ;)
<klepas> ack
<klepas> binary
<AndyFitz> havent got gzip installed ?
<klepas> yea
<klepas> do
<klepas> just Konqueror is a bit wacky with binaries
<klepas> got it
<klepas> very trendy :)
<klepas> I might blog this
<klepas> :)
<AndyFitz> not yet 
<klepas> alright
<klepas> sneakpeak, eh? :-P
<AndyFitz> sneakpeak leak
<klepas> :)
<klepas> how is the icon set going, btw?
<klepas> art deadline being yesterday?
<klepas> (not that it matters, Dapper will be the big challenge)
<AndyFitz> good and bad.  I've determined a way to assist controlled rebranding of it.  the xml is very clean for each svg file.
<klepas> Cool
<AndyFitz> all using the same minimal style information per xml. :)   so hopefully palette shadow weight, line thickness and gradients can  all be changed with simple text-replace commands.
<klepas> useful
<klepas> hey, i've been wondering
<klepas> and since I think your Inkscaping skills are somewhat ahead of mine
<klepas> I did a wallpaper in inkscape
<klepas> and used a lot of gradients
<klepas> the gradients were pulled quite long
<klepas> they exceed the corresponding object's edges
<AndyFitz> so you got very visible colours ?
<klepas> yea
<klepas> but the problem is
<AndyFitz> in the gradient.  all the steps were massive yeah ?
<klepas> when i resize my wallpaper - like select all the objects, group them
<klepas> keep the resize ration the same
<klepas> and then make it bigger
<klepas> the gradients get borked
<AndyFitz> see the gradient icon in the top right toolbar ?
<klepas> because the gradient lengths/lines do not enlarge/expand with the rest of the image
<klepas> hold on, i'll open
<AndyFitz> is that selected ?  if not then thats your issue mate
<klepas> :)
<klepas> thankyou!!!!!
<AndyFitz> also to fix that buggered gradient step visibility you are going to have to dither  your image somehow after its been made raster ( download cinepaind and select your gradient areas and appy a gausian blur
* klepas is *extremely* happy
<klepas> i will
<klepas> thank you very, very much for that!
<AndyFitz> no worries mate.
<klepas> means i can make my wallpaper larger than 1024x768
<klepas> and even completely SVG
<klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/node/65
<klepas> That is where I had my problem
<klepas> Now i can update it and make it fit the rules to be an official Ubuntu wallpaper
<AndyFitz> sweet.  thanks
<klepas> almost done
<klepas> making it 100% svg
<klepas> svgz is an SVG compressed?
<AndyFitz> yep but don't rely on it unless your svg is quite large
<AndyFitz> not everyone has gzip ( windows  inkscape users )
<klepas> yep
<klepas> mmhh
<klepas> still having some problem with this bugger now
<klepas> would it be alright if i let you have a little look at her and see if you can fix her up?
<klepas> Andy?
<klepas> i've got dinner
<klepas> i'll send it to you afterwards
<klepas> if i can get your email or something
<AndyFitz> andy@lugvegas.org
<klepas> back and sent
<klepas> AndyFitz: you have mail
<klepas> :)
<klepas> Back for more I see, eh? :-)
<kamstrup> yeah. -can't get enough
<klepas> LOl.
<klepas> Andy helped me out.
<klepas> I got to fix that Basse wallpaper
<klepas> it's not at a 1600x1200
<klepas> :)
<AndyFitz> ?
<AndyFitz> export it to that res mate
<klepas> what now?
<AndyFitz> more importantly .  if you havent seen the serenity movie do so !
<klepas> I just received your email
<klepas> hold on - too much at once
<klepas> basse3 is a bit different
<klepas> black?
<AndyFitz> no open it in inkscape
<klepas> background.
<AndyFitz> rsvg bug.  never mind that svg file it was just for fun
<AndyFitz> the png is attached
<AndyFitz> at 1600x1200 for you
<klepas> *looks*
<klepas> strange
<klepas> my version of inkscape renders the bar black
<klepas> and the ubuntu lozenge black
<klepas> with the logo and text only white
<klepas> :(
<AndyFitz> ignore that file klepas :-)
<klepas> alright
<AndyFitz> the png is also attached to that email.  base2.svg
<klepas> yep
<klepas> that looks good
<klepas> my version of inkscape displays the SVG incorrectly, as does the wallpaper background manager for this version of KDE.
* klepas is running Inkscape 0.42 and KDE 3.4
<AndyFitz> yeah never mind that image
<klepas> okay
<klepas> Andy: how does the GNOME background wallpaper manager render that SVG?
<klepas> Correctly?
<ogra_> klepas, why do you have a wombat on the site :) ? 
<klepas> on which site?
<ogra_> on the Basse wallpaper site at gnome-look
<klepas> because http://wombat.nuxified.com
<klepas> is my site
<ogra_> ah :)
<klepas> my favourite animal is a wombat - and that is my universal avatar
<klepas> :)
<ogra_> i was just wondering
<ogra_> huge guinea pigs :)
<klepas> hehe
<klepas> orga_: http://wombat.nuxified.com/node/46 - there you go :)
<ogra_> yay
<ogra_> sweet :)
<klepas> I love the second shot
<klepas> these were made by one of my LUG friends whilst he was riding in rural ACT, Australia.
<klepas> ahoy
<miketech> hi
<klepas> what's been doing?
<miketech> leisure-time :)
<klepas> Aye, it's lovely. Holidays here for 2 weeksa
<miketech> for 2 weeks? wow
<klepas> yea
<klepas> school holidays
<miketech> ah ok
<klepas> Love them.
<klepas> seen the next big thing in the linux world?
<miketech> ?
<miketech> what do you mean?
<klepas> the next big technology
<klepas> :-)
<klepas> it's called 'klik'
<klepas> http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/2348/e170py.jpg
<klepas> http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=12841
<miketech> ah yeah
<miketech> heard about it
<miketech> but it's not a real new technology
<klepas> Yea, I suppose.
<klepas> Nevertheless, darn cool.
<miketech> looks simply like a protocol handler for konqueror, executing different packages
<miketech> yeah the idea is nice
<miketech> it's installing stuff with a browser
<klepas> yup
<miketech> but if they do anything wrong it could be abused
<miketech> installing software automatically on a website
<miketech> and so on
<klepas> you mean making you execute klik://app ?
<klepas> where app could be something malicious?
<derek[] > Hi
<miketech> yup exactly
<derek[] > I want to learn the reflections in irregular shapes. Any resource?
<derek[] > (online)
<klepas> what exactly do you mean derek?
<derek[] > you know how the gradients are used in a circle to give it a glossy 3D look?
<derek[] > now if I have an irregular shape.. where should the appropriate gradients be applied, is what I want to study
<klepas> oh
<klepas> well use logic
<klepas> for example
<klepas> for a bubble
<klepas> if the light comes from the top
<klepas> just copy the original layer, in say if you're using inkscape
<klepas> and make it a wee bit smaller
<klepas> and white
<klepas> and add a gradient
<derek[] > yes
<klepas> with the lightest part being closest to the top and fading out downwards
<klepas> if the light is from the top
<derek[] > (its not just one gradient used.. there will be several in an irregular shapes)
<klepas> yes
<klepas> now
<klepas> lets make our shape more complex
<klepas> two bubbles
<klepas> but they join
<klepas> forming the outline of an 8
<klepas> just use the gradient twice
<derek[] > *wish we had a white board*
<klepas> Yea. :)
<klepas> it also helps if you just take still-lifes of reflective objects
<derek[] > :)
<klepas> apply a light source and sketch
<klepas> basic stuff you learn in art classes is something i use today
<klepas> it is so helpful
<klepas> :)
* derek[]  never attended any art class
<klepas> i'm doing my first art classes now too
<klepas> just grab a bunch of marbles
<klepas> stick them together in something
<klepas> apply a light source
<klepas> and a dark background
<derek[] > :D
<klepas> and sketch
<klepas> or, if you don't like sketching
<klepas> take photographs
<derek[] > yes, marbles are spheres though
<klepas> and use this as a guide to all of your other work.
<klepas> well marbles are simple
<derek[] > yes
<klepas> it's usually a good idea to begin sketching easy things
<klepas> mmhh.
* klepas needs to get a glass-cast tux from somewhere...
<derek[] > :D
<klepas> just use a more complex, shinny object
<derek[] > I will if I would find soe
<derek[] > some
<klepas> just look around the house
<klepas> table lamps, decorated glassware, earphones.
<derek[] > earphones of glass?
<derek[] > :)
* derek[]  doesn't live in a country where such stuff is common
<derek[] > anyway, I'll figure out something. Thanks! :)
<derek[] > So what're you working on?
<klepas> Me.
<klepas> I am working on my Suse/Ubuntu box, right now blogging and learning about klik
<klepas> I've done my art for the day.
<klepas> Wait, it's 2 AM.
<klepas> well I guess I'll wait till sometime after I've had a sleep. ;-)
<klepas> Or do you mean my role in the art team?
<derek[] > sorry, I get off the computer in between
<derek[] > what is Klik?
<derek[] > some KDE app I suppose
<derek[] > related to digital photography?
<klepas> no
<derek[] > and yes, I meant what you were working on for Ubuntu
<klepas> klik is an environment in which you can install apps, packages or whatever. For example, you want to try the bleeding edge of Inkscape, on your system without actually installing it, ruining dependencies, without access to root, without overwriting the stable copy of Inkscape.
<klepas> That's klik
<klepas> with a simple click on a website you could "copy-install" and run such an application
<klepas> this simple "installation" did not affect in any way the stability of your base system
<derek[] > Interesting
<klepas> Or you can run the latest official release of Krita, while at the same timeCan you imagine that you could run the latest official Krita release side by side with Boudewijn's code from last night, without the two versions interfering with each other?
<klepas> ack.
<klepas> i meant to edit that
<derek[] > :)
<klepas> stupid keyboard. *ggg* :-)
<klepas> it runs under KDE
<derek[] > and what are you working on for Ubuntu-art?
<klepas> Kubuntu/Ubuntu might have shipped support for it in Dapper
<klepas> for Ubuntu-art.
<klepas> Well I usually make a wallpaper once every 2 weeks
<klepas> and other miscellany in between
<klepas> and I help admin over at art.ubuntu.com
<klepas> otherwise I just stick around the mailing list and IRC channel helping anyone out who wants help I guess. :-)
<klepas> How about yourself? :)
<derek[] > sorry, I was away again
<derek[] > hm
<derek[] > I'm new here
<klepas> Well then, welcome aboard. :)
<derek[] > :)
<derek[] > Thank you!
<derek[] > and I'm learning.. and have to learn a lot
<derek[] > Do you know of any good 2D animation app for linux , corresponding to Flash in windoze?
<klepas> Sadly not, sorry
<klepas> try the GAP package for The GIMP
<klepas> animation package for The GIMP
<klepas> have yet to try it
<mpathy> hi there.. 
<klepas> Moin mpathy
<mpathy> sorry hadnt the time yesterday, and today again not to realize this mockup. can do it this weekend..?
<klepas> Was ist die zeit in Deutschland momentan?
<mpathy> 18:12
<klepas> Kein problem :)
<mpathy> Ich bin IMMER noch in der Arbeit und muss nachher bei Bekannten vorbei :(
<derek[] > Guten Abend mpathy 
<klepas> Hey, dieses ist ein hobbie. Kein problem. :-)
<derek[] > klepas, ok. Yes, I've heard of GAP.
<klepas> here are some examples of GAP work -- http://jimmac.musichall.cz/banners.php?banner=Ximian
* derek[]  looks
<mpathy> klepas: But I WANTED IT :)
<derek[] > klepas, do you speak German?
<klepas> Ja, ich bin Deutscher. Lebe seit 8 jahre hir in 'down under' - Canberra (hauptstadt) von Australien.
<derek[] > "bin Deutscher" means you are German?
<derek[] > and what is "Lebe"?
<klepas> Oh, sorry!
<klepas> I am Germany, I reside in Canberra (the capital) of Australia since 8 years now.
<klepas> *German
<klepas> :-)
<ogra> klepas, warum canberra ? 
<ogra> err, why canberra ?
<klepas> Lived in Sydney for a fair while beforehand
<klepas> was alright
<klepas> but too crowded
<ogra> yes, thats what i would choose ;)
<klepas> moved to Canberra because there were no good schools that taught mandarin (chinese)
<derek[] > o.o
<klepas> and we liked Canberra
<derek[] > there were no such good schools in Canberra ?
<derek[] > "we" = ?
<klepas> in Sydney
<klepas> we being the family
<derek[] > ok
<ogra> derek[] , ich lebe == i live
<derek[] > so you're learning Chinese :)
<derek[] > ogra, thanks
<ogra> as german in australia *g*
<derek[] > ogra, Sie sind auch Deutcher?
<ogra> yup
<derek[] > :)
<derek[] > many Germans :)
<derek[] > Ich lerne Deutsch
<klepas> And here in Canberra I am 5 minutes away from a lake, 10 from a huge one and half a dozen boating clubs, 15 minutes away from the AIS (Australian Institute of Sport), 10 from the mall, 15 from the Australian National Uni, 10 from the Uni of Canberra...
<ogra> but i live in germany and dont learn chinese :)
<klepas> :)
<klepas> Oh, and there are street theatres and such very close by too. I like all that
<derek[] > klepas, great location :)
<klepas> It is.
<derek[] > ogra, :)
<derek[] > klepas, I would like to be as fortunate as you =)
<klepas> hehe.
<klepas> I am only living like this until I am 18
<derek[] > I like this ximian site
<klepas> then I will need to look after myself
<derek[] > its totally made with open source programs
<klepas> derek: it is the site of Jimmac
<derek[] > ah
<derek[] > Wer ist er?
<klepas> big legend in the Ximian, GNOME and Novell community
<klepas> has made over 5000 icons
<klepas> 80 splash screensa
<klepas> and has shipped artwork in Ximian, GNOME and a variety of Novell products
<derek[] > I see
<klepas> like I said - big legend :-P
<derek[] > :)
<miketech> ach hier gibts noch mehr deutsche :)
<klepas> Naja, shau mal da... :-)
<klepas> Moin
<miketech> servus :)
<klepas> Wie gehts?
<mpathy> hey humanity to others, speak english *ggg*
<klepas> Oh, sorry
<klepas> :)
<klepas> well very soon we'll have to speak Chinese or something
<mpathy> hehe also ich geh dann mal vll. bis spter / I go now, perhaps until later..?
<mpathy> hei!
<klepas> with the increasing number of Chinese...
* derek[]  is away: I'm busy
<klepas> I'm out guys
* klepas needs some sleep
<klepas> Have a pleasant day.
<klepas> And whoever sees volvoguy next, wish him the best of luck from me
<klepas> Oh, and before I forget, thanks AndyFitz!
<klepas> :)
<derek[] > goodbye!
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-06
<klepas> anyone home at this hour?
<klepas> moin
<klepas> ought to be about 1 in the afternoon on your end, eh?
<klepas> *just announcing my presence*
<klepas> Good night
<klepas> I need some sleep :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-07
<klepas> Ahoy
<lllmanulll> Hey there
<lllmanulll> Huh, who is Pascal ? :)
<klepas> that's be me
<lllmanulll> Ah, great :)
<lllmanulll> I'm the one complaining about the "nearly headless" humanity theme :-p
* klepas wishes people would stop upload high resolution photos in PGN format onto AUC... Use JPG for humanity's sake
<klepas> hehe.
<lllmanulll> Anyway, I made these icons a month ago now, and didn't find any way to either get them reviewed or enhanced for inclusion in Humanity
<lllmanulll> You can see a few of them here :
<lllmanulll> http://www.manucornet.net/ubuntu-soc/
<klepas> what is your name on the mailing list?
<lllmanulll> bottom of the page
<lllmanulll> "Manu Cornet"
<klepas> Oh!
<klepas> Woot
<klepas> check my reply
<lllmanulll> Huh, you wouldn't happen to be French, would you ? Or we might just as well speak French :-p
<lllmanulll> Yup, I got it :)
<lllmanulll> That's why I came here, since there is hardly any activity on this channel most of the time...
<klepas> Yes
<klepas> Ah well
<klepas> :)
<klepas> i like it quiet
<klepas> :-P
<lllmanulll> So, is there a "step by step" process I should follow for my icons, to get them submitted somewhere ?
<lllmanulll> I read the icon howto
<klepas> Sorry, I cannot speak French. English can do?
<lllmanulll> English is fine :)
<klepas> I'd say contact Andy
<klepas> also talk to ogra
<lllmanulll> Yeah, but how :)
<klepas> he has his Jabber ID, phone number and email address listed on his personal page in the wiki
<lllmanulll> Ah
<lllmanulll> Well, I have always hoped to catch him here
<lllmanulll> Or hoped that he would answer on the list, but..
<klepas> Sorry about that
<lllmanulll> No problem :)
<lllmanulll> All right, I added him to my contact list, and I think I'll just wait for him to appear :)
<klepas> He lives in Australia too
<lllmanulll> I had hoped he would appear here or on the mailing list, but...
<klepas> right now it is 10 past 2 AM here
<lllmanulll> Ah, right :)
<klepas> I have not seen much of him via the Mailing List
<klepas> I found that just emailing him was most effect
<lllmanulll> Yup, I haven't either
<klepas> *effective
<lllmanulll> Anyway, if I understand correctly, he's nearly the only guy working on Humility ?
<klepas> pretty much
<lllmanulll> All right, then I'll be glad to help
<klepas> the humility wiki page has a listing of anyone else who is working on it
<klepas> and there are only a small handful of other names
<klepas> and they only have one or two icons each
<lllmanulll> Yes, and I did update it with my Firefox stuff, but nothing happened
<klepas> http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/63
<klepas> mhh
<lllmanulll> Ah great, you added them :)
<klepas> second of three
<lllmanulll> Thanks a lot :)
<klepas> i shall add more tomorrow
<klepas> no worries
<klepas> :)
<klepas> well today I guess
<klepas> just after I've had my share of sleep
<lllmanulll> I'm not sure my pictures are good enough, but the idea is good I think
<klepas> I like it
<klepas> just one request
<lllmanulll> Yes ?
<klepas> could you upload future photos as JPEGs?
<lllmanulll> Sure
<lllmanulll> I thought PNG was the standard
<klepas> those two pictures took 8 minutes
<lllmanulll> Ok, no problem
<lllmanulll> But nothing to change for these first three ?
<klepas> and over sftp it is slow
<klepas> :)
<klepas> Yea, it's alright
<klepas> I would, but the CMS is crappy
<lllmanulll> Ok, thanks a lot for the help
<klepas> I wish art.ubuntu.com could be using something like the GNOME-look CMS
<lllmanulll> I'll let you get some sleep now :) And thanks for your patience
<klepas> No problems
<klepas> ;-)
<klepas> I'm sticking around a wee bit longer
<lllmanulll> k
<klepas> need to add our first GTK theme!
<klepas> two were submitted today
<lllmanulll> Well that's good news
<klepas> yep
<klepas> both are quite stylish
<klepas> one I think could even replace the default human...
<klepas> GTK theme
<lllmanulll> Hehe, can't wait to see this :)
<klepas> only problem...
<lllmanulll> ah ?
<klepas> i am unsure of what thumbnail and screenshot to use
<klepas> like how do the art.gnome.org folks get these thumbnails: http://art.gnome.org/themes/gtk2/
<lllmanulll> Ah, maybe I know that
<lllmanulll> Let me see
<klepas> :)
<klepas> Any luck?
<lllmanulll> Hmm, searching
<lllmanulll> I once installed something like themepreview
<lllmanulll> Forgot the exact name
<lllmanulll> Right, it is called themepreview, but I'm not sure it is what you want
<klepas> because I'm on my Suse
<klepas> running KDE
<klepas> would you be able to try it out?
<klepas> It'd mean I can add this now
<lllmanulll> Doesn't seem to be a package for this
<lllmanulll> I remember I compiled it, but I can't find the sources again
<lllmanulll> Searching :)
<klepas> I appreciate it. Thank you
<lllmanulll> http://www.users.monornet.hu/linux/stuffs.html
<lllmanulll> Bottom of the page
<lllmanulll> Is that it ?
<klepas> Should do it
<klepas> I'm going to drop a mail to the mailing list tomorrow
<klepas> I'll add that theme then
<klepas> if you want to see them beforehand [the 2 themes] , check GNOME-Look.org
<klepas> :)
<klepas> New Human
<klepas> and another one of some description
<lllmanulll> Got it, looks good
<lllmanulll> Maybe a little heavy on the borders ?
<klepas> Yes
<klepas> It's GPL, so anyone can change it :)
<lllmanulll> Yup, I like the Minimize/Maximize/Close buttons a lot, thought :)
<klepas> Yea
<klepas> I think they look... Ubunutu-ish :-P
<lllmanulll> Anyway, none of this is for breezy, right ?
<klepas> no, sadly not
<klepas> breezy art deadline was on the 29th of last month
<lllmanulll> Well let's make dapper look great :)
<klepas> Hence the title :)
<klepas> *topic
<klepas> xdesktopwaves.sf.net
<klepas> :)
<lllmanulll> Haha, just tried it here (there's an ubuntu package), it rocks ! :)
<lllmanulll> And not slow at all
<klepas> xdesktopwaves -quality 7 -nwm -nww -rn 5 -vs 3
<klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/node/73
<klepas> with screenshots
<klepas> :0
<klepas> *:)
<klepas> I'm going to sleep now
<klepas> Thanks and hope to see you again later today :-P
<klepas> Cheers
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-08
<klepas> hi Andy
<klepas> and everyone else
<klepas> AndyFitz: Manu [lllmanulll]  is quite interested in helping out with the Humility icons
<derek[] > hi kamstrup 
<kamstrup> cheers derek[]  
<derek[] > :)
<derek[] > How are you today?
<kamstrup> Fine... Just peeked at deskbar-applet ... really nice.
<derek[] > what's that?
<kamstrup> http://browserbookapp.sourceforge.net/deskbar-screencast.html
<kamstrup> deskbar+beagle+dapper = heaven
<derek[] > its taking forever to load
<derek[] > be back in a few min.
<derek[] > (breakfast)
<derek[] > back
<klepas> Ahoy
<derek[] > Hallo
<klepas> :)
<derek[] > :)
<klepas> What's up?
<derek[] > not much
<derek[] > you?
<klepas> inkscaping away
<klepas> :)
<klepas> like crazy
<derek[] > :)
<klepas> i have this tendency to just scribble away in Inkscape recently
<klepas> i just use A4 sized pages
<klepas> and just do random things on it :)
<klepas> :o?
<derek_> disconnected
<klepas> oh :)
<klepas> not doing any art?
<derek_> not at the moment
<derek_> but have some work
<derek_> just what the heck could this mean: http://junta.dainet.pl/kokusai/yunta/hpim8509.jpg
* klepas is loading the page
<klepas> someone taking shroeder's cat to a next level?
<derek_> LOL
<derek_> away - lunch
<klepas> no worries
<mpathy> Hi there
<klepas> got dinner
<klepas> be back in 20
<klepas> :)
<mpathy> good topic, let it there a few weeks ;)
<derek_> back
<derek_> Hallo mpathy 
<mpathy> hi derek_ 
<mpathy> do we get feedback from canonical? 
<klepas> and back
<klepas> :)
<klepas> and how are you folks all today
<derek_> wb
* derek_ relaxing
<klepas> :)
<klepas> brb, gotta get some food for our giant furballs
<klepas> nad back
<klepas> *and
<klepas> hi Andy
<derek_> furballs? cats?
<klepas> dogs
<derek_> k
<klepas> this sort of breed: http://www.a-zanimals.co.uk/dogs/images/peds/briad/briad.jpg
<klepas> now times that by two
<klepas> and add lots of uncombed fur
<derek_> =)
<derek_> http://www.sxc.hu/
<klepas> what about it?
<derek_> its a photo stock
<klepas> does it cost money?
<klepas> [to get royalty-free, free photos] 
<derek_> no
<derek_> but they're asking for a lot of info for the registration
<klepas> :(
<klepas> dear me
<klepas> they sure are interested in my life...
<derek_> heh
<derek_> hallo miketech 
<klepas> ahoy
<miketech> hi
<klepas> 4 hours of Inkscaping... might take a break... :-P
<lllmanulll> Hey there
<lllmanulll> I have discussed a little with Andy
<derek_> what?
<lllmanulll> (01:49:31) Manu: Anything that can be used, you think ?
<lllmanulll> (01:51:35) Andy (Humility): not really for humility because its just about to be finalised  but it would be great to see them on art.ubuntu.com, art.gnome.org or  gnome-look under your own theme
<lllmanulll> I didn't know that Humility was nearly finalised, I thought it was still missing stuff
<lllmanulll> (01:52:23) Manu: But if it's nearly finalised, that's great news
<lllmanulll> (01:52:47) Andy (Humility): yes, and something is happening with the toolchain so humility won't be used with the set planned in future
<derek_> Manu?
<derek_> where are you from?
<lllmanulll> France, why ?
<lllmanulll> Is my English that bad ? :)
<derek_> nno
<derek_> your name sounded Indian
<derek_> btw, qu'est-ce que "Humility"?
<lllmanulll> Actually my first name is Emmanuel :)
<lllmanulll> Humility is an icon theme for Ubuntu
<derek_> I see
<derek_> an
<derek_> ah*
<lllmanulll> It ought to be the default one, but...
<lllmanulll> Well, I don't really understand what's going on
<lllmanulll> First it should have been completed for Breezy and be the default icon theme,
<lllmanulll> But then I heard it was not finished, so it would be the default in dapper
<klepas> this confuses me also... :?
<lllmanulll> But Andy told me it was nearly finished, would be ready for breezy, but not as default
<lllmanulll> And it seems it won't be used for dapper either...
<lllmanulll> All right, let me put the whole discussion online somewhere
<klepas> :)
<derek_> :)
<lllmanulll> Here is the conversation :
<lllmanulll> http://www.manucornet.net/transfert/Chat_with_Andy_2005.10.03.txt
<derek_> thanks for posting 
<derek_> manu, are you a regular here?
<klepas> i sure hope so :)
<klepas> ;-)
<derek_> :D
<lllmanulll> Huh, kind of :)
<derek_> why does Andy have (Humility) after his nick?
<lllmanulll> I added it :-p
<lllmanulll> Just to remember who he was in my loong contact list
<lllmanulll> Sorry 'bout that :)
<lllmanulll> Anyway, what he said seems to come a little unexpected to me...
<klepas> Sad to see that Humility is sort of being abandoned
<klepas> :(
<lllmanulll> Well, one can always copy it and expand it, right ?
<lllmanulll> I guess it is GPL ?
<klepas> yea
<derek_> np )
<klepas> although as of yet not GPL and not an icon theme, anyone interested in seeing what i've been working this afternoon?
<lllmanulll> Sure !
<lllmanulll> But I'll be away for a few minutes, trying enemy territory :-p
<derek_> sure
<klepas> okies
<klepas> gimme a moment and i'll svgz it
<klepas> alrighty
<klepas> you'll need Inkscape
<klepas> and patience
<klepas> over 50 layers
<derek_> ohhh
<derek_> why 50 layers?
<klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/files/pinkandpurplepickles.svgz
<klepas> have a look ;-)
<derek_> :)
<klepas> got it?
<derek_> yes
<klepas> cool
<klepas> lots and lots of grouped layers...
<klepas> :-)
<derek_> :)
<derek_> this is for?
<lllmanulll> What should we open this with ?
<klepas> a joint project between me and a mate. we are going to enter a WordPress theme into the annual WP theme competition over at alex-king.org
<lllmanulll> gzip then inkscape ?
<klepas> Inkscape
<klepas> no
<klepas> Inkscape will handle it
<klepas> :)
<klepas> this is going to be the bottom banner
<klepas> on the theme
<derek_> klepas, i see
<klepas> got it lllmanulll?
<derek_> klepas, why is it too long vertically?
<klepas> i like a lot of space
<lllmanulll> Looks good :)
<klepas> so i can work up there and then drag it down
<klepas> also i am keeping room for a mockup of the entire theme
<klepas> :)
<derek_> :)
<derek_> *headache*
<derek_> I must take a break
<derek_> from the computer
<derek_> be back later
<klepas> cheers
<klepas> locoteam meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
<klepas> if anyone is interested
<bmgz> anyone know Pascal?
<bmgz> what timezone/country is he in?
#ubuntu-artwork 2005-10-09
* #ubuntu-artwork  [freenode-info]  if you need to send private messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
<moyogo> hi
<kamstrup> cheers
<moyogo> is it possible to contribute to the ubuntu-title font?
<klepas> brb
* klepas is back
<klepas> crap... oops.
<klepas> night all :)
<fimbultyr> hi
<derek[] > Hi
<derek[] > hi
<moyogo> hi
* derek[]  is away: I'm busy
* derek[]  is back (gone 01:36:03)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-02
<Madpilot> Why did the -artwork ML just get a whole bunch of old emails sent to it?
<Madpilot> stuff from June...
<Viper550> I don't know!
<troy_s> madpilot i suspect someone forwarded them
<Madpilot> troy_s, the odd emails? They didn't look like forwards
<troy_s> some of them are for certain -- you can see that in the header.  but i don't really understand it.
<troy_s> one minute i had 24 messages in my inbox
<ppd> troy_s: hi. have you received my email?
<lapo> hi
<effraie> hi all
<bersace> hi effraie
<effraie> ;)
<effraie> bersace, /me cry for ppc poor user who can't use xaralx open-source...
<bersace> lol
<bersace> xaralx is not so good
<effraie> ah?
<bersace> it has good svg functionnalities
<bersace> but the GUI is quite ugly imho
<effraie> ok
<bersace> far from HIG :)
<effraie> but i want to make my own opinion, you know
<bersace> (where inkscape goes)
<effraie> it seems to be powerful
<bersace> anyway, it has good svg feature, i'm sure that inkscape is going to implement such features
<bersace> they add svg features each releases
<effraie> that right
<bersace> about artwork
<bersace> is the pink a joke ?
<lapo> never used xara, which are the funky feature is has which inkscape doesn't?
<effraie> yes, a private joke
<lapo> s/is/it/
<effraie> lapo: i can't use it on my ubuntu/ppc
<bersace> do sabdfl want a black boot theme, then a pink login screen then orange gnome splash, and a brown desktop bg
<effraie> it will be the gloubiboulga caumunity them, bersace
<lapo> omg, my all those colors make my head spin :-)
<effraie> caumunity/community
<effraie> bersace: what pink are you speaking about? i just realised i did'nt post the pink panel-bg i've done
<bersace> lapo: dunno
<bersace> lapo: seems xaralx support gradient that fit a path
<bersace> s/fit/follow/
<bersace> or similar features
<lapo> would be cool
<lapo> I'd love a perspective distorsion matrix
<bersace> effraie:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Polish/Incoming/LastMinuteRush
<effraie> ok
<lapo> bersace: uhm... is the artwork changing once again?
<bersace> lapo: of course !
<effraie> hum, IMHO, that gdm is great, and is not really pink (but quite) where better just a little more dark
<bersace> don't you know that Ubuntu like last minute rush to produce artwork
<lapo> bersace: bah, there is a lot of talking but no clear guidelines or coordination about all this artwork process
<bersace> event if we spent hours organising it (like restructuring the wiki=
<bersace> )
<lapo> there was
<effraie> bersace : did you seen it full screen? doesnt not feel pink in full screen
<effraie> doesnt/does
<bersace> effraie: right
<bersace> but that's still pink
<bersace> when i see my skin, its pale yellow
<bersace> (with tches de rouceurs )
<bersace> :P
<effraie> lol
<effraie> skin ubuntu, au pied de la lettre
<bersace> lol
<effraie> human...
<bersace> if we want skin color, don't be cartoonish !
<bersace> just take a shot of you skin and pick the a color !!!
<effraie> summer skin or winter skin?
<bersace> hh
<bersace> south afrika skin !
<PingunZ> I supose that means summer -_-
<bersace> hh
<PingunZ> Soo .. what's up whit the pink ?
<PingunZ> Kubuntu growing purple .. ubuntu getting pink
<effraie> one of you know how to hack gtk-themes in order to assign a panel-pg?
<PingunZ> Gimme a sec .. you just want to change its color or the background image ?
<PingunZ> Check out /.themes
<PingunZ> there the gtkrc
<PingunZ> and then hold on a second :)
<effraie> no... i want that the gtk-theme automaticly associate a bg-panel.png , as it can be done with desktop-background
<effraie> PingunZ: if you can do that, youur fabulous
<PingunZ> effraie .. it can be done
<PingunZ> with the pixmap engine
<PingunZ> gimme a sec .. I'm trying to find out how :)
<effraie> great!
<effraie> so, i've got to make a bug-report on ubuntu-look engine, to implement the same
<PingunZ> I think I've got it ..
<PingunZ> I'll pastebin it
<effraie> PingunZ: do you know if pixmaps rotate the background image in case of vertical panels?
<PingunZ> No, they don't
<effraie> ok
<effraie> and can can associate different images for horizontal & vertical panels?
<PingunZ> effraie: Just take a look at the LiNsta theme .. it uses the pixmap engine .. with a different panel bg ..
<effraie> ok
<PingunZ> Dunno effraie .. I think it can be done but that's just a guess ..
<PingunZ> I'll link you to the linsta theme .. gimme a sec ;)
<effraie> ok, thanks a lot
<effraie> oh, i'll found it
<PingunZ> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=42697
<PingunZ> effraie: Take a look at the description on gnome-look there is a short explanation how to change its look .. ;)
<effraie> yes, i'm currently reading that description
<PingunZ> O_o My compiz theme is ranked #1 at gnome-look ^^
<effraie> which one is it?
<PingunZ> Xristal
<PingunZ> o_O I just checked out the new GDM .. te lastminuterush one ..
<PingunZ> Err .. I don't like it .. at all
<AnAnt> I removed the quiet option to get boot messages, the problem is that the boot messages are above the progress bar & corrupt it
<AnAnt> is there a way to change the position in which the boot messages appear ?
<AnAnt> and is there a way to use Dapper's splash in Edgy ?
<Viper550> Hello...
<Viper550> Anyone haven't seen my new wallpaper that I made? especially kwwii?
<matt8806suomi> show us!
<Viper550> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Polish/Incoming/Viper550
<matt8806suomi> how do i replace the startup splash screen
<Viper550> you use edgy?
<matt8806suomi> just about to upgrade to edgy
<nysosym> hi all happy people! :)))
<msikma> I wish I was one.
<nysosym> but? msikma?
<fschoep> Hello everyone
<kwwii> hi fschoep
<fschoep> Hey kwwii , how are you doing?
<kwwii> I wonder which wallpaper Viper550 meant
<fschoep> I don't get it - more info needed :)
<Zoohouse> Hello everyone
<fschoep> Hi Zoohouse
<nysosym> hi fschoep :)
<fschoep> Hi nysosym
<Zoohouse> You guys know who I am? lol
<fschoep> Sure
<nysosym> no?
<fschoep> Joel Montes de Oca
<fschoep> Welcome
<Zoohouse> I created this team long ago near the time when launchpad.net opened.
<nysosym> fschoep: a short question, is the actually uspalsh theme the final one?
<fschoep> nysosym: it shouldn't be
<Zoohouse> I had a icon set concept in the making and I created this team to receive help.
<fschoep> Zoohouse: :)
<Zoohouse> But launchpad was still a bit limited
<Zoohouse> wow, amazing that the team took off
<fschoep> Zoohouse: that's a great bit of history
<Zoohouse> brb phone
<fschoep> k
<nysosym> fschoep: jippi, any preview of the final one? :D
<fschoep> nysosym: wrong question, we're working on it :-)
<nysosym> i like the idea of kubuntu, with the black background and a glossy logo
<fschoep> I see
<fschoep> What do you like most about that one?
<Zoohouse> ok back
<kwwii> fschoep: good, how are you? sounds like a lot of stress at the moment
<fschoep> kwwii: it's going, well, fine but a bit stressed indeed
<fschoep> kwwii: managed to do some real actual work tonight regarding integration of the Theme Team work
<nysosym> fschoep: at most, it is simple useful and very beautiful. :)
<kwwii> fschoep: as long as you make it through this time, things will be fine :-)
<fschoep> it's good to be able to actually *do* something instead of sending mails and pushing people around :)
<kwwii> fschoep: this was kinda what I was afraid would happen in paris
<fschoep> kwwii: hehe, October when kingdoms rise and kingdoms falls
<fschoep> fall*
<kwwii> fschoep: exactly :-)
<fschoep> Anyway, don't worry - I'm doing fine and I full well know what went well and what went wrong :)
<nysosym> what went wrong? :)
<Zoohouse> Here is the original icon set I was putting together at the time: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=29443
<fschoep> I'm pretty sure things'll work out even though it's been looking bleak at times ;)
<kwwii> fschoep: yeah, I got that feeling from the results...I think things will work out in the end
<kwwii> no matter how bleak it looks there is always a solution
<fschoep> Yes :)
<nysosym> Zoohouse: very good work, but a little bit inconsistent (the "people" icon for example)
<kwwii> we are having a party in the house I live in...time to go get a beer...be back later :-)
<fschoep> kwwii: got news on California already?
<kwwii> fschoep: nope, you?
<fschoep> kwwii: go and get your beer, cheers!
<fschoep> kwwii: me neither
<fschoep> kwwii: see you later this week probably
<fschoep> kwwii: be good :0
<kwwii> hehe, from what I have heard, we are both still on the internal list, so we'll see what happens
<kwwii> see you later
<Zoohouse> nysosym: right, also the help icon and such were inconsistent. I had plans of changing them in the near future.
<fschoep> kwwii: cu
<nysosym> fschoep: on which section do you work at moment? :)
<Zoohouse> So how does the group function? Is all the communication done via the mailing list?
<fschoep> nysosym: integrating Theme Team themes to Edgy
<fschoep> Zoohouse: a lot is ML and a lot via the Wiki
<fschoep> nysosym: so you can enjoy Blubuntu, Peace and Tropic pretty soon I guess
<Zoohouse> What type of projects have you guys worked on?
<fschoep> Zoohouse: mainly core distro artwork
<fschoep> Zoohouse: but there's a lot more done during Edgy
<nysosym> fschoep: oohh very nice i like blubuntu :)
<fschoep> Zoohouse: Human theme, three side themes, new sounds, Firefox themes, Human iconset expansion, HighCon iconset work
<fschoep> nysosym: Blubuntu is an awesome theme, I've been using it for a large part of the evening since I just packaged it :)
<Zoohouse> How do you guys provide the art work? Do you provide it to the ubuntu team  or do you offer it to the end users as a DL?
<nysosym> fschoep: shure, but i think that would never be a default "ubuntu" color, because "kubuntu" is blue.. :-/
<fschoep> Zoohouse: we're doing distro work mainly
<fschoep> Zoohouse: I'm in close contact with Daniel Holbach for packaging and uploading our work
<fschoep> nysosym: indeed, but it's good to have Blubuntu added to the mix now
<nysosym> fschoep: yes :))) , back to usplash, any chance to get a "ubuntu" version of the "kubuntu" style? :)
<fschoep> Maybe, can you make one?
<fschoep> ;)
<nysosym> hmm, i dont know, but i will try it :)
<fschoep> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/radial-light_overlay.gif
<nysosym> 5.Oct is feature freaze :(((
<fschoep> That's what I'm trying to get in there
<fschoep> 7 september was feature freeze
<nysosym> fschoep: O.o a LOT nicer than the kubuntu one :))))
<fschoep> ;)
<fschoep> I need to see it working first though
<nysosym> i think this should be possible :)
<fschoep> Indeed, but someone's gotta step up and do it.
<fschoep> msikma did the graphics, I cropped them and Seveas should now implement it
<fschoep> Not sure where we stand though
<nysosym> wow, i could watch these "artwork" every hour a day :D
<fschoep> Hehe
<nysosym> hour=time
<msikma> That's not the one.
<Zoohouse> wow.. I'm a little confused though... See, when I created the team in 2005, I stepped away from the team (I was alone at the time) since launchpad was still in beta. Then I started school and what not and lost interest since no one seemed to join and help out, not to mention that the folks at #launchpad were not too friendly. How/why did people join a inactive team instead of building a new one?
<msikma> That's an old version.
<fschoep> msikma: I know, but it comes close right?
<msikma> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/usplash_rlsl_7.gif
<fschoep> OK, you win - I didn't have the link ready
<msikma> I also made a Kubuntu one, but I'm not sure if anyone ever looked at it. http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/kubuntu_rlsl_6.gif
<msikma> Probably doesn't fit in with their style, anyway.
<fschoep> msikma: I saw the Kubuntu one and it's almost as good as the Ubuntu one except for the logo :)
<msikma> Did I use a bad version of the logo?
<fschoep> msikma: did you ever hear something from Seveas? Should I try to get in touch with him again?
<msikma> I just pulled whichever one I could find.
<nysosym> msikma: although a very very good work, but i prefer the "light" effect of the old one, but the logo placement is much better in the new one :)
<fschoep> msikma: No, it's the Kubuntu logo, it was a joke.
<msikma> Actually, no. I've been pretty busy, so I haven't really paid attention.
<fschoep> msikma: No problem, I'll try to sort it out.
<msikma> Ah, hehe
<fschoep> msikma: You were going to California, right / wrong?
<msikma> I'm sorry that I'm a little, er, unwilling to handle that side of Ubuntu Art.
<msikma> Not me.
<msikma> I'm staying in Rotterdam.
<fschoep> Funny thing is we're all (you, Dennis and I) from NL and we're talking English almost all of the time.
<msikma> I feel so out of touch.
<msikma> I don't even know where we stand at Ubuntu Art.
<fschoep> Oh, no problem. Do you want an update?
<nysosym> yes :D
<msikma> Then I got a message from Troy about the fact some of the art won't be accepted (which, arguably, might also be a very good thing; I simply don't know since I haven't been around to check the integrity of all submitted art).
<msikma> I'm a little lost. But you don't need to update me right now; I'm working on something. I'll be sure to listen to an explanation later, though.
<fschoep> OK, great.
<fschoep> nysosym: sorry ;)
<msikma> (And this is supposed to be done yesterday.) :)
<fschoep> msikma: We're getting on the right track though, so we'll probably have acceptable artwork for release.
<msikma> I can tell... I wrote this ActionScript... a year ago? It's terrible.
<nysosym> fschoep: hmm okay, i like it to try ^^
<msikma> I was planning on just ignoring most of the process, coming up with my own theme, and somehow submitting it, whether for main artwork or as a separate package. Either way, I'd just like to show how I would do it.
<fschoep> msikma: I know, that's the easiest way to get something in :)
<fschoep> msikma: I'm packaging the Theme Team stuff right now
<msikma> I wish I knew how to GDM/Metacity.
<nysosym> *looks very happy* :D
<fschoep> You rip an existing one, modify some gfx and give it to me :)
<msikma> nysosym: hi there :)
<fschoep> That's what the others did
<nysosym> hi msikma :)
<msikma> fschoep: I perhaps could do that. I wonder how long it'll take. I usually end up too tired after work to do serious stuff except when it's business.
<msikma> My GDM is pretty complicated, though.
<msikma> I think.
<fschoep> msikma: I understand, and indeed GDM and GTK/Metacity is nuts
<Zoohouse> I see that Troy James Sobotka is now the team owner
<nysosym> where can i watch them msikma (the GDM theme) :)
<fschoep> Zoohouse: indeed
<fschoep> nysosym: wait two days, they'll be in main then
<fschoep> I think*
<msikma> nysosym: I'll upload my mockup
<nysosym> 2 day, a long time. ^^ :)
<nysosym> msikma: thx :)
<nysosym> its very good too see any "action" in this channel. :)))
<fschoep> Right :)
<fschoep> Zoohouse: you might enjoy reading this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan
<msikma> http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/michielgtk14.png <-- hmm, this is not the latest version, but it's only one I have online right now. Some things have already been changed since then.
<msikma> (sliders, scroll bars are way different now)
<msikma> (I've also modified the inactive tabs)
<msikma> Here's how the sliders work in the new version: http://gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/slider_test.png
<Zoohouse> fschoep: Im glad i wasn't kicked out of the group or I might have known the fate of the team. heh
<nysosym> msikma: ohh very lovely! :)
<fschoep> Zoohouse: :)
<fschoep> Zoohouse: are you looking to join the action again?
<msikma> nysosym: thank you :)
<msikma> Unfortunately, that's currently the extent of my abilities.
<msikma> As far as GDM goes, that is.
<fschoep> GTK you mean?
<nysosym> msikma: i like your abilities ;)
<Zoohouse> fschoep:  I will sure try. By they way have you seen Xara yet? Its a killer vector app.
<fschoep> Zoohouse: yes, Xara is very good.
<fschoep> Zoohouse: current Edgy artwork was made with Xara
<Zoohouse> oh?
<msikma> er, GTK
<msikma> :P
<fschoep> msikma: no problem, I was a bit confused by your message :)
<nysosym> fschoep: where can i get xara? :)
<fschoep> nysosym: xaraxtreme.org
<fschoep> nysosym: enjoy!
<nysosym> i use inkscape only at moment and miss many features..
<nysosym> ohh cool, big thx :)
<msikma> It's time for a good old... "what are you listening to?"
<msikma> But with a twist.
<msikma> This time, it's "What are you listening to and what are you drinking?"
<msikma> I'm listening to Tom Waits - Telephone Call from Istanbul while drinking English tea with milk.,
<fschoep> Oh dear, sounds like a standard forum thing, not :)?
<fschoep> Well I'm listening to Lyla by Oasis on iTunes, drinking nothing.
<nysosym> The Killers - Sam's Town and a lot of coffee :D
<msikma> Nah, it's more like an IRC/blog thing.
<msikma> I used to drink a lot of coffee. But not anymore. I think it's because I became more picky.
<fschoep> I ordered an Apple USB keyboard so I can use my Macbook in clamshell mode on my big screen
<fschoep> Wish me luck
<msikma> Good luck :)
<nysosym> *wish luck*
<Cadet> G'nite.
<fschoep> Thanks
<fschoep> He Cadet
<fschoep> You've only just joined us
<msikma> I'm getting tired of this Apple keyboard. I'm getting a different one.
<nysosym> *although use a macbook* :)))
<fschoep> Ever since I started working on Edgy I've used a Macbook with OS X. Feels a bit weird :)
<nysosym> sure, OSX is very nice edgy although i think
<Zoohouse> fschoep: When users create the art, how do they send it in for review? Do they just place it in the wiki?
<msikma> I used to always work on Windows due to the cost of an Apple. Now I'm running an Intel iMac 20" inch and happily dual booting with Ubuntu.
<fschoep> Zoohouse: yes, and post to the ML
<fschoep> msikma: Ubuntu boots natively on those machines?
<msikma> Cool, downloading a vital file for this project I'm working on at a _stunning_ 500 bytes/s.
<nysosym> fschoep: bash me but i preffer OSX a little bit *duck and run*
<fschoep> I can't get mine to boot graphically
<msikma> fschoep: sure, but you need to fix it up after you get it.
<msikma> I hope that Edgy will fix that.
<fschoep> msikma: I see
<msikma> It's terrible.
<msikma> I remember Warty making me do that. I didn't expect Dapper to.
<fschoep> msikma: Indeed
<fschoep> msikma: I could stand Ubuntu on my MB, but Windows is a no-go
<nysosym> hmm edgy works fine on mine macbook :)
<msikma> I still have Windows, but on an emulator.
<fschoep> msikma: like, Parallels?
<msikma> nysosym: glad to hear that :)
<fschoep> or VMware on Ubuntu?
<msikma> fschoep: I experimented with Parallels, and it's brilliant, but I felt bad about using it so I'm now using Q (with Qemu frontend).
<fschoep> Why feel bad using Parallels?
<msikma> Because I never paid for it.
<fschoep> Me neither, I've got zillions of trial codes though
<fschoep> I was considering purchasing it
<fschoep> Because it's a very useful tool for development
<msikma> Bah, even 500 bytes/s wasn't good enough. The download got interrupted.
<msikma> Qemu works excellently. It's a free and open source emulator. It's slower than Parallels, but it works.
<fschoep> msikma: right, maybe I'll try that one in the future
<fschoep> Right now, I only have and need OS X on my MB
<msikma> http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/
<msikma> Something to check out if you have the time. If you have Parallels, it's not necessary.
<fschoep> I know QEMU, been using it for ages on Linux before VMware player went free
<msikma> Unless you want to run it on Ubuntu.
<msikma> Ah :)
<fschoep> VMware player > Parallels
<msikma> I was kind of surprised that such a major emulator was around.
<fschoep> But they're making progress
<nysosym> why u didn use bootcamp fschoep?
<fschoep> Because I didn't get Ubuntu booting natively without hassles
<msikma> I feel your pain.
<fschoep> And I don't want to futz around too much, if it doesn't work I choose something else
<msikma> It's terrible to have to mess with that.
<fschoep> And on top of that, OS X is all I need for work
<fschoep> I can run Edgy on my workstation
<nysosym> hmm strange, edgy works well here
<fschoep> OS X is leaps ahead on many fronts
<fschoep> But that's another discussion
<nysosym> sure i love osx ^^
<fschoep> I use my Macbook live on stage for DSP processing
<fschoep> Somehow I don't see Ubuntu doing that anytime soon
<msikma> Not until the art team is given more freedom, anyway.
<nysosym> linux is very very good, no question. But OSX is better i think
<fschoep> Well, it depends
<fschoep> OS X has a good commercial software selection
<fschoep> Apple makes some nice software like iLife and iWork
<msikma> If the artwork team is granted freedom, we will be able to actually position Ubuntu on the market in a different way than "linux distro".
<fschoep> But the Linux kernel is probably better than Darwin
<msikma> That should bootstrap it in the consumer market.
<fschoep> msikma: I see, tell Mark that :)
<msikma> It's very easy to say that in two sentences on IRC.
<msikma> I've been meaning to write it down in detail. The sole reason why I haven't done that is because I think it will be dismissed.
<fschoep> Right, I feel your pain
<fschoep> "Fix Edgy kthxbye"
<msikma> I think you do.
<fschoep> No, that's just kidding
<msikma> Unfortunately, I don't have any marketing credentials, but I've at least had one year of a marketing education, and a general interest in it in general (I quit because I wanted to design.)
<msikma> general in genera
<msikma> hmm
<fschoep> Maybe you could try talking to Corey?
<msikma> Does he do marketing?
<fschoep> He's in the martketing team.
<fschoep> Yes, Burgundavia on IRC.
<msikma> Well then I should kick his ass.
<fschoep> Liked by some, despised by others :)
<msikma> He hasn't done a good job in convincing Mark that design is the absolute most important aspect of a product's marketing strategy by far.
<nysosym> hehe ^^
<fschoep> :)
<msikma> I'm not kidding or trying to help out my team.
<msikma> This is truth.
<fschoep> I see, you should talk to troy_s about him :)
<fschoep> I'm just trying to do what I think needs doing and sometimes it goes well and other times it goes a bit awry.
<fschoep> When I uploaded Troy's design (current) the Canonical Deathstar fired at me :)
<fschoep> Well, we're fixing it for now
<nysosym> Ohhh
<fschoep> nysosym: what's up my brother?
<msikma> We haven't hit the polish phase yet, have we?
<fschoep> msikma: we did
<msikma> For now, regarding artwork, that's really all I would like to know.
<msikma> shucks
<nysosym> fired at me << NEVER!!!! :)))
<fschoep> msikma: but ...
<fschoep> msikma: polish isn't actually polishing
<msikma> That means I'll actually need to start working soon.
<fschoep> msikma: we're creating new designs that fit in with Mark's directions
<msikma> Are we behind on schedule like schoolboys?
<msikma> :)
<fschoep> msikma: depends
<fschoep> msikma: safe answer: yes
<msikma> "This week's the week in which we're wrapping up our essay, so let's get started with writing it."
<fschoep> msikma: it isn't funny because it's true :)
<fschoep> I'm going to write to Daniel now, brb
<nysosym> :)
<msikma> That's okay. From here on, I'd rate a GDM, a usplash, a wallpaper and a suggestion to ditch the stupid Human icon theme at about 8 hours.
<nysosym> hmm i like the human icon theme *shame*
<msikma> For me personally anyway. I no longer have to research what I need to design and how it should be done.
<msikma> There are a number of reasons why I don't think it's viable. Some of them are simply design mistakes that should have been avoided very early on in the process, but haven't because whoever made it didn't plan it out well enough.
<msikma> Well, I'm all out of tea.
<nysosym> sure
<nysosym> i will agree with u
<nysosym> have fun, i will make me an another cup of coffee :D
<msikma> hehe
<msikma> I am going to get tea
<Zoohouse> hummm... I'm interested in this section: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Marketing
<AnAnt> is there a way to use Dapper's usplash in Edgy ?
<Viper550> As a request by someone, I have to port Dapper's Usplash theme to the new Edgy system
<AnAnt> that's me
<nysosym> wb fschoep :)
<fschoep> nysosym: Hi, my MB went to sleep and disconnected :)
<nysosym> no problem :)
<nysosym> fschoep: short question, how can i make backgrounds in xara transparent?
<fschoep> Oh dear
<fschoep> Use RGB+Alpha?
<fschoep> During export?
<fschoep> Or during design?
<nysosym> export :)
<nysosym> export to *svg doesn't really work
<fschoep> Right, I'm not sure if it supports that yet I think I read about it on the forums
<Viper550> So basically, he needs the text enabled
<fschoep> Hey Viper550 how are you doing?
<Zoohouse> fschoep: Who/How is items in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Marketing used? Is it for clubs or is it used by the company? I'm a tad interested in that section
<Viper550> Good, I'm doing a little "project" for AnAnt, porting Dapper's splash theme to Edgy
<fschoep> Viper550: right, you're always full of energy it seems :)
<fschoep> Zoohouse: I have no idea
<Viper550> yep, I'm just eager to get stuff done!
<fschoep> Zoohouse: if you want to do something marketing related, try Corey Burger
<fschoep> Zoohouse: Burgundavia on IRC
<fschoep> Zoohouse: 	corey.burger@gmail.com
<Zoohouse> thx
<Viper550> Okay, so first I have to make the backgrounds black and paste in the logo?
<Zoohouse> i have been making a little spoof on a poster put out by my college for MS. The experience has been good. http://usalug.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9678&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0
<fschoep> Need login, can you post raw material?
<nysosym> hmmm svg export does't work with xara...
<lapo> hi
<fschoep> Hi lapo
<nysosym> nothing can open these files...
<nysosym> hi lapo :)
<AnAnt> Viper550: is the result going to be a deb file or what ?
<Viper550> I'm not quite sure at the moment
<AnAnt> k
<Viper550> fschoep, is it easier just to replace the graphics, and recode it to use text or use the aptly titled testcard.c file instead?
<fschoep> I think reusing testcard is simpler, but I'm not really sure.
<Viper550> I still want the nice progress bar display, but he wanted text
<fschoep> I see
<fschoep> Then I'd definitely use testcard and try to copy the progress bar code
<fschoep> The text stuff is more complex I think
<Viper550> He wanted text, and he doesn't like the current default (but it's good he doesn't like it, I don't like it either!)
<fschoep> :)
<AnAnt> and I thought the usplash was just an image !
<fschoep> It's a bit more complex :)
<Viper550> Not anymore, Usplash has gotten alot more extendable in Edgy
<Viper550> Brand new features, 256 colors, high-resolution, custom progress bars, interchangable fonts, the works!
<nysosym> re, a little system crash ^^
<fschoep> nysosym: your MB?
<nysosym> no, my workstation :D
<fschoep> OK
<Viper550> Even better, it doesn't just use one resolution, it works at many different definable resolutions now!
<nysosym> hmm xara has much more performance, but inkscape works better with svgs :D
<fschoep> I'm going to quit IRC, hope to see you guys soon :)
<nysosym> yes, hope to see u soon ;)
<fschoep> :)
<nysosym> in mailing list :D
<Viper550> Wait, where is testcard?
<nysosym> who?
<Viper550> oh, nm
<nysosym> msikma: ?
<nysosym> msikma: is it possible to test you GTK+ theme? :)
<AnAnt> Viper550: what software is used to design usplash'es ?
<Viper550> Graphics Software (Gimp) and Text Editors
<AnAnt> and how to compile it ?
<Viper550> get APT ready and install usplash-dev
<AnAnt> ic
<msikma> nysosym: it's just a mock-up. Just a picture.
<nysosym> msikma: ohh okay, anyway nice! :D
<msikma> brb
<AnAnt> Viper550: should I wait ?
<nysosym> re
<Viper550> Still working on it, might take a few hours, or a few minutes, now I just gotta get it all arranged properly
<AnAnt> Viper550: well, I must sleep
<Viper550> Okay, tommorow then. If you leave, I'll get someone to jot down the link to where I will post it on the wiki
<AnAnt> Viper550: thanks ! you can send me the link via memoserv
<Viper550> okay
<Viper550> Anyone else experienced with the new usplash?
<Viper550> anyone still here?
<nysosym> yes
<nysosym> but no experience with usplash
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-03
<Viper550> Just gotta make the makefile for my splash theme and it will be all ready!
<Viper550> anyone still here?
<kwwii> me
<kwwii> but I do not count
<kwwii> :-p
<Viper550> Did I make this usplash theme right? http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645
<Viper550> As you may have heard, I was porting Dapper's Usplash theme to Edgy
<nysosy1> hi
<nysosy1> anybody out there? :D
<nysosy1> Viper550: ?
<Viper550> hello
<nysosy1> i have created a little preview of my emblems for the human theme
<nysosy1> will u see it? :D
<nysosy1> please tell me your mind
<nysosy1> http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emblemspreviewiw2.png
<Viper550> I will...if you also look at the Edgy Usplash theme I made for fun... http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645
<Viper550> Interesting...
<nysosy1> hey, very nice ussplash, i will try it soon :)
<Viper550> It's for Edgy
<nysosy1> i know ;)
<Viper550> I assume you use Edgy
<Viper550> So, try compiling it
<Viper550> (you know, for best experience, turn on text
<Viper550> still there nysosyl?
<nysosy1> hmm i will recreate my icons first
<nysosy1> (other colors ect.)
<Viper550> (but first, maybe you could just compile my splash to make sure it will work?)
<nysosy1> ok
<nysosy1> make: Circular throbber_back.png <- throbber_back.png.c dependency dropped.
<nysosy1> pngtousplash throbber_back.png > throbber_back.png.c
<nysosy1> /bin/sh: pngtousplash: not found
<nysosy1> make: *** [throbber_back.png.c]  Error 127
<nysosy1> rm throbber_back.png.c
<nysosy1> nysosym@hannelore:~/dapperport$
<nysosy1> i cant compile them
<Viper550> uh, sudo apt-get install usplash-dev
<nysosy1> usplash_1024_768.png.c:30861: warning: large integer implicitly truncated to unsigned type
<Viper550> what does that mean?
<nysosy1> the package works
<nysosy1> mom
<nysosy1> i will reboot
<nysosy1> wish luck ^^
<nysosym> re
<Viper550> hello
<nysosym> the package doesn`t work
<Viper550> what happened?
<nysosym> only the "old" bootsplash
<Viper550> only the "puke background" one?
<nysosym> the normal edgy bootlogo
<Viper550> yeah
<Viper550> just the brown background with the gloss logo
<nysosym> yes
<Viper550> So, it made the .so file?
<Viper550> I think there may be more steps other than compiling it
<nysosym> yes
<nysosym> the .so file is here
<Viper550> Okay, on Dapper, you make a new directory (/usr/local/lib/usplash/), copy the file there as root, and run some sort of sudo alternatives command
<Viper550> Okay, and all the packages for alternate themes on the repos copy it to usr/lib/usplash
<troy_s> ping
<nysosym> hi all
<AnAnt> how do I install a splash screen ?
<AnAnt> Viper550 made a splash screen & I compiled it using usplash-dev
<AnAnt> the result is an .so file
<AnAnt> what should I do with it ?
<lapo> hi
<effraie> ho
<nysosym> re
<nysosym> i have created some new emblems, please tell me your critic! http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshothumanemblemsfilebrowserpp5.png :)
<effraie> nysosym: ther are quite better!
<effraie> can you send them to the art-list?
<nysosym> effraie: well, but they aren`t complete at moment
<effraie> if you can complete them, that's cool, but in order to have directions, and maybe be included in default artwork, you have to submit them to the list
<nysosym> ok, i have sent it to the mailing list :D
<nysosym> hi andreasn :)
<andreasn> nysosym: hi there
<nysosym> how are u?
<andreasn> just fine, a bit tired...need to get something to eat and then get some work done
<andreasn> have a deadline creeping closer :)
<andreasn> what about you?
<nysosym> yes, i feel fine too :)
<nysosym> thx for question
<AnAnt> is there a way to install a compiled usplash.so ?
<ppd> 56
<AnAnt> 56 ?
<AnAnt> what's that ?
<fschoep> Hello everyone!
<AnAnt> hello
<AnAnt> how do I install a usplash.so ?
<AnAnt> Viper550 ported Dapper splash to Edgy
<AnAnt> I compiled it (after installing usplash-dev)
<AnAnt> and I got a usplash.so
<AnAnt> so how do I install it ?
<fschoep> Copy it to /usr/share/usplash
<fschoep> Or something like that
<fschoep> Does that exist?
<fschoep> Then use update-alternatives
<fschoep> See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/USplashCustomizationHowto
<nysosym> hi fschoep :)))))
<fschoep> At least. that's how we did it back in the old days :)
<fschoep> Hi nysosym I saw you did some emblems!
<nysosym> jop ^^
<AnAnt> fschoep: no /usr/share/usplash
<nysosym> i was a little bit bored yesterday evening.. ^^
<fschoep> AnAnt: /usr/local/lib/usplash then?
<fschoep> AnAnt it should be in the HowTo, sorry to be terse :0
<AnAnt> fschoep: yeah, right
<AnAnt> fschoep: without the local/ though
<fschoep> AnAnt: OK, no problem
<AnAnt> thanks
<fschoep> You need some magic after that though
<fschoep> Type in the following rune:
<AnAnt> huh ?
<fschoep> sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-$(uname -r)
<fschoep> I'm not really at home with those runes, but it should rebuild the initramfs
<nysosym> hmm, i will wait for the official usplash :D
<AnAnt> k, the howto is fine, thanks
<nysosym> fschoep: how do you think about my icons?
<fschoep> nysosym: need to take a closer look and try them in real life first, first impression is good though
<fschoep> nysosym: I'm not sure if I can shuffle them in right now, but it's something we can address for Edgy +1 definitely
<AnAnt> rebooting
<nysosym> fschoep: k, thx :)))
<fschoep> nysosym: k :)
<nysosym> fschoep: my first idea was, all emblems in orange (only white and orange), but in IRC nobody want them ^^
<fschoep> Hehe :)
<fschoep> I think you took the right choice in using color
<nysosym> sure, but i like me "one-color" version too :D
<fschoep> nysosym: well, try sending it the ML as well, maybe Mark will pick up on it
<fschoep> nysosym: the Human icon set uses orange badges throughout so it might not be a bad idea after all
<nysosym> http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emblemspreviewjl5.png << here is it :D
<nysosym> (a very first version) ^^
<fschoep> Not bad, not bad at all :)
<fschoep> One thing I noticed is the gloss
<fschoep> Could you try to take another look at the Human folder icon and try matching the gloss line with it? I'm not quite sure if it fits in right now
<nysosym> , sure i will try it :)
<fschoep> Great!
<nysosym> np ^^
<AnAnt> fschoep: it worked, thanks
<fschoep> AnAnt: you're welcome
<AnAnt> fschoep: the problem is that text messages don't appear, how do I make it appear ? I got the source code
<fschoep> AnAnt: maybe ask Viper? I have no idea what he has done to make it work :)
<AnAnt> k
<fschoep> AnAnt: I'm sorry but I have other matters to attend to :)
<AnAnt> np
<fschoep> AnAnt: once the heat is off I'll gladly help you out
<fschoep> Hi effraie, how are you?
<effraie> fine, thanks
<effraie> i just have a problem with my email server...
<fschoep> effraie: oh dear, anything small I can help with?
<effraie> did you receuved my email about your adress book?
<fschoep> No
<fschoep> You can PM it to me if you want
<effraie> no, franck, it's a mutualized mailserver, and we have been spammed..
<fschoep> effraie: BTW thanks so much again for the moderation sprint :)
<fschoep> effraie: I see, that's unfortunate
<effraie> the situation is now under control, but the spamm queue is big..
<effraie> so, i've a big lag...
<fschoep> effraie: I see, I'm very patient though
<nysosym> fschoep: better? http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newhumanglossai5.png
<fschoep> nysosym: the top one is the new one?
<nysosym> yes
<fschoep> nysosym: then yes, it's a LOT better :D
<nysosym> ok
<fschoep> nysosym: really, it fits in so much more
<nysosym> i will make the rest with the "new gloss" :)
<fschoep> Great, be sure to let the mailing list know, maybe Mark will pick it up
<nysosym> yes, mark although like the "old" one :D
<fschoep> I'm sure he'll love the new ones then
<effraie> fschoep: what does mean 'BTW'
<effraie> ?
<fschoep> effraie: it's an abbreviation for By The Way
<effraie> ok, thanks
<fschoep> you're welcome
<effraie> i've got to improve my english...
<fschoep> there's a lot of those around on the internet: you probably know most ones already
<fschoep> If you're ever in doubt use Google:
<fschoep> http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=define%3Abtw&btnG=Google+zoeken&meta=
<fschoep> just type define:BTW or something else and it'll list you the possibilities, then you can just choose the one that fits in most
<effraie> eh, that's a great trick
<fschoep> nysosym: those new ones are definitely good, watch out for the overlap though
<fschoep> nysosym: in the example you sent, the gloss doesn't run all the way through on the left side
<nysosym> fschoep: sure, i will fix this, only a short make preview :D
<fschoep> nysosym: I see, that's what I thought - just giving a tip for the final version :)
<nysosym> hey nooooo problem, critic make work better and i have no problem with critic :)
<fschoep> nysosym: OK, good to hear you won't flip out :)
<nysosym> give me 15min and all i new :D
<nysosym> *is
<fschoep> The timer is counting down, I'm watching you!
<fschoep> ;)
<nysosym> hehe :D
<nysosym> hmmmm
<nysosym> a big failure....
<nysosym> please give me 10min more ^^
<fschoep> Take your time, quality over quantity!
<nysosym> hehe, i know, it`s only funny ^^
<nysosym> btw. is it okay that i spam the mailing list with my releases? :-/
<fschoep> nysosym: well, not really
<fschoep> nysosym: maybe you'd better try sending it in tomorrow
<nysosym> ok, no problem :)
<fschoep> nysosym: also, try to mention my name in your mail
<nysosym> sure :)
<nysosym> my lovely little sunshine ^^
<fschoep> Can I PM you nysosym ?
<nysosym> sure :)
<cbx33> hey all
<fschoep> nysosym: can you read my PMs I sent already?
<cbx33> ping pign ping fschoep
<fschoep> Hi cbx33 right man right time
<cbx33> what have I done this time ;)
<fschoep> cbx33: how are you doing, brother?
<cbx33> I'm doing great fschoep
<nysosym> hi cbx33
<cbx33> can't wait till I get my new sound card
<cbx33> 10ins/10 outs
<cbx33> w00000t
<fschoep> cbx33: I can't wait either ;)
<nysosym> fschoep: yes i can
<cbx33> I know wsorry for the delay
<fschoep> cbx33: did you reply to Mark already about the request
<cbx33> All I can do now is to wait
<cbx33> I did
<fschoep> nysosym: OK, great
<fschoep> cbx33: thanks
<cbx33> fschoep, np
<cbx33> I didnt really expect them to anyway
<cbx33> just hoped
<fschoep> cbx33: as you probably saw I put in a good word for you
<cbx33> and in light of the techincal problems I was having it was in dire straights
<cbx33> heheh
<cbx33> tahnks Frank
<fschoep> cbx33: did you get my e-mail reply about dropping shutdown sound and shortening login?
<cbx33> yes :(
<fschoep> cbx33: what did you think of it?
<cbx33> if it must then it must
<cbx33> :p
<cbx33> can we not just have a really shot logout
<cbx33> :S
<fschoep> cbx33: problem is, my machine and Keybuk's and several others' all shut down in like one or two seconds
<fschoep> ALSA gets stopped almost right away
<cbx33> really
<cbx33> then drop it it is then
<fschoep> cbx33: there is no way we can guarantee any sound to play for any given time
<cbx33> I mean we did have soe problems
<cbx33> with it from a composition POV
<cbx33> so if you guys want to drop it
<cbx33> that's fine with me
<fschoep> cbx33: OK
<fschoep> cbx33: and shortening login?
<cbx33> I'll do my best
<fschoep> Great, as I suggested maybe doing only one drum loop would make sense
<fschoep> cbx33: I'm sorry we need to cut and drop sounds
<fschoep> cbx33: but I think it'll make the distro better
<cbx33> fschoep, it's fine
<cbx33> just sad from my POV
<cbx33> but that's just me being selfish ;)
<fschoep> cbx33: I can understand
<fschoep> cbx33: you know, I have a short story
<fschoep> cbx33: two months ago when recording my bands new CD
<fschoep> cbx33: our "producer" cut up songs, rearranged parts and shortened them
<fschoep> cbx33: I felt bad at that time, but when I listen to the takes now, it makes a lot of sense to make more compact versions of songs and sounds
<cbx33> yeh I knopw
<cbx33> hehe
<fschoep> cbx33: so I hope the shortened login sound will make this really nice impression as that's its purpose
<cbx33> fschoep, that'll be fine
<cbx33> edgy + 1 will enable a much broader range of sounds to be created
<fschoep> cbx33: Indeed, and we can focus on sound from the start as well
<effraie> eh, fschoep, your musician?
<fschoep> cbx33: r'you going to California?
<fschoep> effraie: yes indeed
<fschoep> effraie: well, I try to be anyway - I can play the guitar
<effraie> if it where not a working channel...
<cbx33> I'm hoping so fschoep
<cbx33> still waiting to hear
<cbx33> I thought it was supposed to be yesterday
<fschoep> effraie: if you know The Edge from U2 - that's about the style I play
<effraie> ok
<effraie> i see
<fschoep> Our new EP with four new tracks is out next week, I'll make sure you guys can listen to it then
<cbx33> brb
<effraie> cool! (even if i'm jazz addict)
<fschoep> effraie: Oh, we (mostly our singer) put in some detuned notes now and then and call it freeform jazz, so you'll like it :)
<effraie> ;)
<fschoep> effraie: http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=7716505373128409451
<fschoep> That's from our early days, we're a lot different nowadays
<effraie> eheheh.. i'll see in later.. on ubuntu/ppc, only free things
<fschoep> Right ;)
<fschoep> I'm going away for a moment now, see you later today!
<Viper550> Guess what, I ported Dapper's Usplash Artwork to Edgy!
<nysosym> hi all :))
<PingunZ> hey nysosym
<nysosym> hmm sooo silent ^^
<PingunZ> True :
<PingunZ> *:)
<nysosym> hi PingunZ  :)
<nysosym> !seen fschoep
<nysosym> anyone here?
<PingunZ> yes :)
<nysosym> i have here 300kb of date for the mailing list, is this allowed?
<PingunZ> date ?
<nysosym> actually
<nysosym> i will upload them
<nysosym> thats my package ^^
<PingunZ> ok
<nysosym> is this okay?
<PingunZ> Dunno .. I'm pretty new .. but I guess it is
<nysosym> okay thx :)
<PingunZ> nysosym: Are you the emblems guy ? :)
<nysosym> jep
<PingunZ> nysosym: They rock .. your emblems .. I suggest you put them on the wiki
<nysosym> hmm i don't know how :(
<nysosym> *shame*
<PingunZ> Hmm ..
<nysosym> and thx :D
<PingunZ> No, thank you ! :) I really hope they get included in edgy ;)
<nysosym> hmm i think they would be integrated in edgy+1 ;)
<PingunZ> ping troy_s
<PingunZ> Ask him to put it on the wiki :) He knows his way around ;)
<nysosym> good to know, thx a lot :)
<Viper550> Did I do this usplash theme for Edgy properly? http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645
<nysosym> i think so
<Viper550> (you got it to work?)
<nysosym>  no, but i haven`t try it again
<ppd> troy_s are you here?
<fschoep> Hello everyone
<ppd> hi
<fschoep> Hi ppd how are you doing?
<ppd> very well. you too?
<fschoep> Yes, thanks
<fschoep> ppd: Are you following the artwork team or interested in what we're doing?
<ppd> yes I'm interested in what you're doing and for the moment especially in troy_s's wallpapers for edgy ;)
<fschoep> ppd: right, we're creating some new designs based on Mark's directions
<fschoep> ppd: do you like the current wallpaper by Troy?
<ppd> is the default one by troy?
<fschoep> ppd: yes, it is
<ppd> yes. very much. much better than the old one
<fschoep> ppd: right, we're going to make some new designs which will please Mark a bit more than the current one
<fschoep> ppd: I might try to keep the current wallpaper by Troy in there though
<ppd> cool
<ppd> I like that style with glossiness and that plastic feel
<fschoep> ppd: we're going to make some new designs based on gloss, so you'll probably like them as well
<ppd> fschoep: some with brighter colors would be nice too
<ppd> but in general I think you're doing great work
<ppd> :)
<fschoep> ppd: watch Edgy the next few days, there will be three new community wallpapers to enjoy
<fschoep> ppd: if all goes well, you get three new fully customized themes ranging from GDM to GTK theme
<ppd> how many wallpapers will you ship with the final release?
<fschoep> ppd: I advise you to check out "Blubuntu" when it's in there
<ppd> I will
<fschoep> ppd: probably eight
<fschoep> ppd: Dawn of Ubuntu, Simple Ubuntu, Wave, Blubuntu, Peace, Tropic, Default and Default Widescreen
<cbx33> hey fschoep
<fschoep> Hi cbx33
<cbx33> guess what a rrived a little while ago
<fschoep> cbx33: you're not kidding, right :)
<cbx33> nope
<cbx33> :D
<cbx33> it's in and has been tested
<fschoep> cbx33: this chat is useless without pics ;)
<cbx33> we're talking like 0 noise
<cbx33> fschoep, I have pics
<cbx33> will be going on blog tinight or tomorrow
<fschoep> cbx33: great
<fschoep> cbx33: does it work with your software already?
<cbx33> http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010LT-main.html
<cbx33> fschoep, yup
<fschoep> cbx33: good to hear, great news man
<cbx33> yup I hope to start on the sounds tomorrow
<cbx33> got to goto the doctor first
<fschoep> cbx33: that would be awesome, I'm looking forward to it
<cbx33> :(
<fschoep> cbx33: nothing bad I hope?
<cbx33> well....the fact that I seem to be suffering from hypersomnia for the past 2 years
<cbx33> I've finally had enough
<cbx33> I can fall asleep anywhere....it's not as bas as narcolepsy
<cbx33> but I can fall asleep mid conversation with someone sometimes ;)
<fschoep> cbx33: I see, I'm sorry to hear that - I hope there is a proper cure
<cbx33> it worries me
<cbx33> it's ok
<cbx33> as long as I'm front of a PC
<cbx33> i never sleep whilst on a pc
<fschoep> cbx33: so you carry a laptop around ;) ?
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> :p
<fschoep> cbx33: ping me on IRC or mail tomorrow if you've got news
<cbx33> ok
<fschoep> cbx33: I'm going to log off now
<cbx33> seriously there is like 0 noise
<fschoep> That is awesome
<cbx33> just nothing
<cbx33> it's scary
<fschoep> I never had any equipment that good
<cbx33> my mixer makes much more noise than the card
<cbx33> I took some samples
<cbx33> and normalised them
<cbx33> they were at like 40% before
<cbx33> after no noise
<cbx33> I mean nothing
<fschoep> cbx33: amazing
<cbx33> heheheh
<cbx33> indeed
<cbx33> I'll let you get off
<cbx33> I'm off to bed too
<fschoep> cbx33: OK, thanks :) See you tomorrow I hope!
<cbx33> yup
<fschoep> Good night everyone
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-04
<nysosym> hi all :)
<nysosym> hi aboe :)
<aboe> hi nysosym
<aboe> how are you
<aboe> troy_s, are you busy??
<nysosym> aboe: ohh i feel fine, thx
<nysosym> hi andreasn :)
<nysosym> and troy_s :)
<aboe> hehe, if they are awake...looks like nap time for some people...
<andreasn> hi there
<nysosym> aboe: hehe no, i have played with some graphics :)
<aboe> nysosym, I wanted to ask if the murrine-gtk engine could be included in edgy universe or multiverse repo...I think it makes a good addition to ubuntu-looks engine
<aboe> what are you working on??
<nysosym> aboe: nothing special, only a little learning with inkcape
<aboe> inkscape is a cool program I could never get the hang of it...
<nysosym> hmm
<Madpilot> aboe, there's an excellent manual written for it
<nysosym> i don`t understand that question (?) Can anyone help me :D
<nysosym> How many of these emblems are replacements for existing emblems in the Human icon set, and how many are new (in the sense that there is not already an emblem in Human?)
<Madpilot> http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/
<aboe> I know but graphics isn't my thing...I don't have the patients for it or the skills...me just package stuff
<aboe> and build
<aboe> he's asking which emblems are being replaced with the human icon set. and which emblem icons are new or added by the human icon set...
<aboe> I think...hehehe :)
<aboe> Madpilot, that's a very good manual...like the style it's written in
<Madpilot> yeah, it's well done
<nysosym> aboe: hmm i have made these emblems, to match with the human icon theme. For replace all "old" gnome emblem when human in use.
<nysosym> thats would be my answer ^^
<aboe> hope that's what the question was about....
<aboe> :) hehe :)
<nysosym> sure? ^^
<aboe> nysosym, I also got a question...about icon-themes? it's about synaptic, Only the refresh icon is themed....?
<nysosym> aboe: no, the refresh icon, the properties icon and the apply icon works perfectly here
<nysosym> only "mark all" and "search" looks like "old"
<aboe> what about update and apply...I'm using the normal tango theme that can be installed with edgy
<aboe> did I do something wrong when I installed the theme...or maybe there isn't any tango icons for those yet and that's why it goes back to default gnome...
<AnAnt> how do I change the gnome splash screen ?
<aboe> nysosym, you're right if I use the human theme the icons in synaptic are changed, but with the tango theme they aren't...
<nysosym> :)
<aboe> he goodbye everybody got to go to work...bleuh :(
<AnAnt> found it : /usr/share/pixmaps/splash/
<nysosym> re
<fschoep> Hi all
<fschoep> Hi lapo
<lapo> yo fschoep
<fschoep> lapo: How are you doing?
<lapo> doing fine, thanks
<lapo> fschoep: how is the artwork refresh going?
<fschoep> lapo: well, we're working with Mark on creating a new GDM and wallpaper
<fschoep> lapo: so far, making good progress
<fschoep> lapo: other areas are going well, too - Theme Team work should go in shortly
<fschoep> lapo: Human iconset expanded, Firefox themes doing fine
<fschoep> lapo: now looking into adding emblems for the Human theme
<fschoep> lapo: and lots more :)
<fschoep> lapo: sounds, too!
<lapo> sounds cool
<lapo> apropos sound the logout sound is way too long :-/
* mneptok is trying to get permission to use a nifty script that retrieves photos from Flickr based on user-defined tags
<mneptok> hopefully we can have that in edgy+1
<fschoep> mneptok: have you made a specification already?
<mneptok> no, waiting until we have permission to use it, and then trying to convince the author to attend the dev summit to work on it
<fschoep> mneptok: I see, I hope all goes well
<mneptok> if i can get those 2 things done, i'll have someone else write the spec. i'm kinda buried with other stuff.
<fschoep> mneptok: the author doesn't necessarily have to attend the dev summit
<fschoep> mneptok: I also think the deadline for sponsorship has passed
<mneptok> fschoep: i know, but if he does, *he* can write improvements. two words. "diminished responsibility" ;)
<fschoep> mneptok: so he would have to pay for the trip and accomodation :)
<mneptok> fschoep: he lives in the SF area. works at Pixar.
<fschoep> mneptok: I see, that's relatively close, isn't it?
<mneptok> aye
<mneptok> ~25 miles or so
<nysosym> hi all :)
<nysosym> ohh very silent ^^
<nysosym> hi fschoep :)
<fschoep> Hi nysosym
<fschoep> nysosym: working on your emblems now, good things do happen you see :)
<nysosym> sure, by problems, i`m here :D
<fschoep> nysosym: I've got some comments
<fschoep> nysosym: The circle aren't entirely round it seems, they more wide than tall
<fschoep> circles*
<nysosym> really ? *confused*
<fschoep> nysosym: On top of that I noticed the top gloss gradient doesn't run to white (#FFFFFF) but to some light shade of grey, was that intentional?
<nysosym> one moment please :)
<fschoep> nysosym: sure, take your time
<nysosym> To the 1. point i have checked some icons and these have the same height and width (in inkscake checked, only the graphic)
<fschoep> nysosym: odd, let me check again :)
<nysosym> To the 2. point, yes this is intentional, because the folder icons although didn't have a white gloss, for the emblems i have uses one to match witch the folders. :)
<fschoep> nysosym: right
<nysosym> :D
<fschoep> nysosym: OK, no problem then - I'll work on getting them working first, then we'll discuss details if there are any left
<fschoep> nysosym: deal?
<nysosym> some of my icons works here very good as emblem (24x24)
<nysosym> deal :)
<nysosym> mom *make s screenshot*
<nysosym> http://www.250kb.de/u/061004/p/c78ec8f5.png
<nysosym> i have checked only a few icons and all works good here :)
<fschoep> nysosym: looking good, are you sure emblems should be 24x24 and not 32x32? I think the default ones are 32
<andreasn> is that a eagle?
<nysosym> eagle?
<fschoep> andreasn: it's a globe
<fschoep> andreasn: ;)
<andreasn> oh
<nysosym> ^^
<andreasn> sorry
<nysosym> no problem
<andreasn> took a rough guess
<fschoep> andreasn: no problem, it's a bit hard to see at 24x24 so that's why I'm proposing 32
<andreasn> you need to provide emblems in all sizes
<nysosym> fschoep: hmm thats a good point, personally i think 24x24 is a good size (on 1280x1024)
<fschoep> andreasn: tell me more
<andreasn> fschoep: well, if you use like 4000x3000 (or whatever)
<fschoep> andreasn: we have scalable SVGs as well, would that be good?
<andreasn> fschoep: the system should be able to use the scalable emblem and blow that up
<fschoep> andreasn: right, so we don't prerendered ones?
<andreasn> and if you have nautilus set to tiny folders (like 25%) you don't want blurry ones
<andreasn> prerender the small sizes, but supply svg as well
<andreasn> as prerender is faster
<fschoep> andreasn: I see, thanks for the advice - I'm going to try and get them working now, then
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/blurry-emblem.png
<andreasn> that emblem is 32x32
<nysosym> andreasn: sure, but the original gnome icon theme, has the main part of emblems only in 48x48. I agree with u, but this let me a little bit confused
<andreasn> yeah, but in gnome-icon-theme, all icons used to have only one size, and that made the whole system look blurry
<andreasn> or, well, not all, but most of them
<troy_s> fschoep
<fschoep> troy_s: troy_s
<andreasn> I'm not 100% sure if nautilus pick the right size all the time though, I've noticed a bunch of bugs here and there when using pixel perfect sets
<fschoep> troy_s: speak your mind
<fschoep> andreasn: nysosym: I'll try to get the basics working first, we can work on retouching smaller versions later on, right?
<nysosym> right :)
<andreasn> http://ramnet.se/~nisse/diverse/temp/not-blurred-emblem.png
<andreasn> ah, it seems nautilus picks a good size
<andreasn> when you have emblems in the right size
<fschoep> andreasn: good to hear, I'll make sure to test around with it once we've got everything set
<andreasn> sure
<fschoep> troy_s: ping ?
<troy_s> how you doing fschoep, sorry was checking mail
<fschoep> troy_s: fine, thanks. I hope you are well as well
<nysosym> wrong button...
<nysosym> hmm damn, i must go to work at 3 o`clock and it`s 2:18PM...
<nysosym> working on graphics use a lot of time....
<nysosym> fschoep: we should use 32x32 scalable
<fschoep> nysosym: OK
<nysosym> sry for many work :(
* mneptok tootles off for some sleep
<nysosym> fschoep: i have testet that nautilus scales svg's very well in every size
<fschoep> nysosym: OK, good
<fschoep> nysosym: should I just place your SVGs in /scalable then?
<nysosym> the only problem should be the performance, but i can`t reproduce any lags on my machine 2600+
<nysosym> yes, here all works very well
<nysosym> i must go to work now
<fschoep> OK, I'll go and try that
<nysosym> thx for all :-*
<nysosym> bye guys!!
<fschoep> nysosym: cu later
<fschoep> nysosym: be good :)
<nysosym> ever! :D
<fschoep> Hey PingunZ
<fschoep> PingunZ: don't know if Jonathan already told you, but your GDM should be in quite soon I think
<fschoep> I packaged it on Monday
<PingunZ> fschoep: What gdm .. do I have to make a gdm ?
<PingunZ> Or the one I already made ? :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: the Blubuntu one
<PingunZ> I already made ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: it's probably going into Edgy this week
<fschoep> PingunZ: yes
<PingunZ> Sooo .. do I need to do something ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: no, you already did your part of the work
<PingunZ> Exept kiss you cause your incuding it :):D
<fschoep> PingunZ: you're welcome ;)
<PingunZ> Btw.. sorry for being inactive .. but I don't want to fail on school again ;)
<fschoep> PingunZ: don't worry, there is more than Ubuntu
<PingunZ> I know :) .. Suse, debian, Gentoo .. :D
<fschoep> PingunZ: right
<PingunZ> Thanks for including it fschoep :) I really like that
<fschoep> PingunZ: no problem, I hope it gets uploaded soon
<PingunZ> Btw .. Thanks for making me a moderator too :)
<PingunZ> Rofl .. all I do is thanking tou ! :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: ;)
<PingunZ> How's your appla battery charger going ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: good, thanks
<fschoep> PingunZ: got a new one the day after calling Apple
<PingunZ> That's what they call service .. :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: I also ordered an Apple keyboard and mouse so I now use my Macbook as the main computer on my main display
<fschoep> I use Linux over X11 ;)
<PingunZ> Lemme guess 20" Lcd ? :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: that's also the reason why I'm on IRC way more often now :0
<PingunZ> Wich is great ;)
<fschoep> Yes, I got used to it I think
<PingunZ> Woah this rocks .. My work will be in the default install of ubuntu ? :O
<PingunZ> Can't wait to tell my parents .. rofl ! :
<PingunZ> *:)
<fschoep> PingunZ: tell everyone you know. It should be pretty certain it's going to be in there, but the decision is now out of my reach.
<PingunZ> Oh ;)
<fschoep> PingunZ: I packaged and modified it on Monday and asked Daniel to upload it. He's sitting on it now.
<PingunZ> Daniel -> Who ?
<fschoep> Daniel Holbach, the funny German guy?
<PingunZ> Never heard of .. :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: now you have, then
<PingunZ> What's his nick
<PingunZ> *?
<fschoep> dholbach on IRC and Launchpad probably
<PingunZ> Never heard of ..
<fschoep> https://launchpad.net/people/dholbach
<PingunZ> O_o He is like admin of 10 teams ? :D
<fschoep> Daniel does a lot of different things yes
<fschoep> He's a core-dev so he can work on Ubuntu as a job
<PingunZ> Btw .. Have you seen my compiz theme .. its rated #1 on gnome-look :)
<PingunZ> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=45690
<fschoep> Nice, looks a bit like Vista I think :)
<fschoep> You should make the close button a bit bigger ;)
<PingunZ> Yes .. I think vista *looks* nice
<fschoep> Right, and we've *so* had it with Mac OS X Aqua looks
<PingunZ> Yes .. I just used someone else's buttons :)
<PingunZ> I know ;)
<PingunZ> I'll try to make some .. but its not really my err .. speciality :D
<fschoep> I use Mac OS X aqua borders on my install... of Mac OS X
<PingunZ> But I'll do my best ;)
<PingunZ> fschoep: When can I propose a themeteam for edgy+1  ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: probably early next cycle
<fschoep> PingunZ: I'm not sure who'll be in my position for Edgy +1
<PingunZ> And .. can themeteams also cover Openoffice, gimp, xara splashes ?
<PingunZ> fschoep: You're the AiC, does it change every cycle ? :|
<fschoep> PingunZ: we're going to need to take a look at that. We considered that for Edgy, but it's already proven to be difficult to deliver four pieces of artwork for Human.
<PingunZ> Hmm .. :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: Yes, Mark suggested rotating the AiC for each release.
<PingunZ> Why is that ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: to have multiple people get experience doing so
<PingunZ> I think you're doing pretty great :)
<fschoep> thank you
<PingunZ> If we could vote once .. I'll vote for you ^^
<fschoep> hehe, that's nice to hear, but let's not get ahead of ourselves
<PingunZ> ;)
<fschoep> Mark will explain his plan soon I think
<PingunZ> Ok ;)
<fschoep> he's already started looking forward for Kubuntu, so Ubuntu'll be next I think
<fschoep> Hi Cadet, back again?
<fschoep> Hmm, I need to go and get some stuff I ordered for printing, does anyone have urgent matters to discuss right now?
<fschoep> Right. I'll let my Macbook fall to sleep and disconnect, then. See you guys in an hour or so.
<ppd> hello everyone
<PingunZ> hey ppd
<ppd> hi PingunZ
<PingunZ> troy_s: You there ? I'd like to discuss your GDM :)
<Faisal> hi
<bersace> troy_s: ping
<fschoep> OK, that was just a really long hour.
<PingunZ> fschoep: will my name still be in the GDM description ? :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: yes
<PingunZ> Wohoo :)
<PingunZ> Thanks !
<fschoep> PingunZ: both your real name and nickname
<PingunZ> When will I know if it'll be included in Edgy ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: as soon as I know
<PingunZ> Rofl :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: :)
<PingunZ> No ETA ? :D
<fschoep> PingunZ: no, sorry
<fschoep> brb
<PingunZ> ok ;)
<fschoep> Right, I really don't know yet what will happen, but of course I am trying my best to push for inclusion and to have them on the CD.
<PingunZ> fschoep: Thanks m8 ;) I really like appreceate that ;)
<PingunZ> Or however you write that :)
<ppd> hi
<fschoep> Hi ppd
<PingunZ> Hi ppd & fschoep :)
<fschoep> Hi PingunZ
<ppd> Hi fschoep & PingunZ
* PingunZ is currently taking a look at Xubuntu edgy :)
<PingunZ> With the new beryl compiz
<fschoep> PingunZ: can I give you a task :) ?
<PingunZ> Yes you can :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: OK it's an easy one probably
<PingunZ> Ok ;)
<fschoep> PingunZ: Did you see Eric's mail to the list on the new orange Human emblems?
<PingunZ> Yes
<fschoep> PingunZ: I need you to find out how to replace emblems in the Human icon set
<fschoep> PingunZ: sounds doable?
<fschoep> PingunZ: I'm a bit busy fixing some other bugs so if you can help that'd be awesome
<PingunZ> /usr/share/icons/human/emblems/
<PingunZ> I don't really get it ..
<fschoep> ;)
<fschoep> If you place icons in that folder, they don't seem to get updateed
<fschoep> updated*
<PingunZ> You just extract the emblems into the icons folder
<PingunZ> Well refresh your theme in theme manager ;)
<fschoep> Really? I had no luck doing so.
<PingunZ> That's how I would do it ;)
<fschoep> Show me a screenshot you managed to change 'em then :)
<PingunZ> Ok :)
* PingunZ sniffs for the mail
<fschoep> PingunZ: If you manage to do it, you'll get a cookie :0
<PingunZ> Yay ! :D
<nysosym> gooood evening :)
<PingunZ> fschoep: Cookies ready ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: yes, apple cake even
<PingunZ> Nice :)
<fschoep> Get it - "Apple" cake
<fschoep> ;)
<PingunZ> ^^
<fschoep> nysosym: PingunZ is proving me it's easy to add your emblems
<PingunZ> I just did
<PingunZ> I'm uploading the screenie :)
<PingunZ> http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/7674/screenshotgg6.png
<PingunZ> Say I'm 1337 :D
<nysosym> ahhh cool :)
<nysosym> nice work :)
<PingunZ> Ain't my work :)
<nysosym> we use the color ones now? :D
<PingunZ> I just extracted them into the emblems dir
<PingunZ> Dunno
<PingunZ> I prefer them :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: right?
<fschoep> PingunZ: it's that easy?
<PingunZ> Yes.
<fschoep> PingunZ: I've been trying like mad to get them working
<PingunZ> fschoep: I'll guide you trough it :)
<PingunZ> *:)
<PingunZ> You on gnome/kde/xfce ?
<fschoep> GNOME, Vanilla Ubuntu
<fschoep> vanilla means "clean"
<PingunZ> AltF2 -> gksudo nautilus
<PingunZ> I know ;)
<fschoep> OK, good :0
<fschoep> Can you give me the short story?
<PingunZ> There .. copy the emblems.tar.gz into your /usr/share/icons/tango/scalable/emblems/
<fschoep> Like put the SVGs in /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/emblems
<PingunZ> and right click -> Extract here :)
<fschoep> in Tango?
<PingunZ> Yup .
<PingunZ> I did it in tango .. I'm a tango-fan
<PingunZ> And then just remove the .tar.gz
<fschoep> Right.
<PingunZ> Worked here :)
<fschoep> Can you also get it working for Human :) ?
<fschoep> I'd rather not put Human emblems in Tango
<PingunZ> Yes ..
<PingunZ> Must be same :)
<fschoep> Is there a magic rune for updating the list of emblems
<PingunZ> fschoep: Are you trying to use the orange or colored ones ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: orange
<fschoep> PingunZ: I like orange(s) and Apple(s)
<PingunZ> Oh .. maybe the tar is corrupt ?
<fschoep> ;)
<PingunZ> rofl fschoep
<fschoep> No I do get the SVGs alright
<PingunZ> I'll try to put the oranges into the Human :D
<fschoep> OK, go ahead and let me know if it works.
<nysosym> hmm this action doesn`t work here
<PingunZ> brb need to check something
<PingunZ> fschoep: Something wierd is happening with those orange emblems
<fschoep> PingunZ: tell me more
<PingunZ> The colored ones work .. the orange ones don't
<fschoep> PingunZ: right so unpacking the colored ones into emblems works for Human as well, but orange doesn't?
<nysosym> i have found a good way, gimme some minutes please :)
<PingunZ> nysosym: A good way ?
<nysosym> yes, to work with the orange ones
<nysosym> gimme some time :)
<fschoep> nysosym: I'm looking forward to it
<nysosym> i will send frank an new tar.gz :D
<fschoep> nysosym: almost peeled out every hair on my head because I couldn't get them working
<fschoep> nysosym: j/k ;)
<PingunZ> add pingunz@gmail.com
<PingunZ> I told you .. the tar was corrupt :)
<PingunZ> Do I get a cookie now ?
<nysosym> fschoep: stop!!! :D
<fschoep> PingunZ: not yet, if it works afterwards, both you and nysosym'll get one
<nysosym> PingunZ: not corrubt, but a :D
<nysosym> a later
<nysosym> i will final my worm :D
<PingunZ> Can I set my icons back to tango now ? :)
<nysosym> jojo
<PingunZ> Hmmm .. tango :)
<PingunZ> Sweetest icons ever made !
<PingunZ> nysosym: You're the one who made the emblems right ?
<nysosym> yes
<PingunZ> Oh :)
<nysosym> why?
<PingunZ> Just wondering ..
<nysosym> because?
<PingunZ> I was interested ..
<PingunZ> In who made the emblems ..
<PingunZ> fschoep: If you have any blubuntu-gdm news or other jobs like that to be done .. just mail me .. I'm kinda tired so .. cya ! :)
<cbx33> ping fschoep
<fschoep> PingunZ: cu
<fschoep> cbx33: right man right time
<fschoep> PingunZ: will mail you
<cbx33> hey dude
<PingunZ> Oki fschoep , night all
<cbx33> just got in
<cbx33> gonna do some sound work today
<cbx33> and then if I don;t get it all done tomorrow too
<cbx33> fschoep, I was thinking
<cbx33> instead of ...
<fschoep> cbx33: take your time, it looks like you're out of breath now :)
<cbx33> dum da dum ba ba da-dum | dum da dum ba ba da-dum | dum da dum ba ba da-dum | dum dum dum dum
<fschoep> OK, weird as it sounds I understand what you are saying
<cbx33> dum da dum dum | dum da dum dum | dum da dum dum dum
<cbx33> mush shorter
<fschoep> That's an option indeed, I was thinking of trying just "dum da dum ba ba da-dum krsshh"
<cbx33> wow even shorter
<cbx33> our problem lies in where thr sound is initiated
<cbx33> but its too late to chagne now
<fschoep> what do you mean exactly?
<cbx33> for the startup
<cbx33> I'm talkign abotu startup
<cbx33> the sound needs to start before the gnome splash
<cbx33> but the way it currently is means it's played after
<cbx33> or starts half way through
<cbx33> so instead of....here's a song while your computer loads
<cbx33> it's more like here's the sound that your computer has finished loading
<fschoep> OK, I see - you're right yeah
<cbx33> get me?
<cbx33> but it's too late in release to change now
<nysosym> fschoep: all works very fine here
<nysosym> i have packaged my "Human Folder"
<fschoep> cbx33: get it
<nysosym> how can i send u these package?
<fschoep> nysosym: DCC send?
<fschoep> right click on me
<nysosym> i will try it
<fschoep> I hope
<nysosym> works?
<fschoep> I accepted it, but it's not really moving
<nysosym> hmm okay
<nysosym> rapidshare?
<fschoep> Fine with me
<cbx33> fschoep, where do yo ustand next release?
<nysosym> ok
<nysosym> mom
<fschoep> cbx33: where do I stand?
<cbx33> well, me and some other guys are hoping to have an online music sharing session next week
<cbx33> to try out some music ideas for edgy +1
<fschoep> cbx33: that sounds pretty cool
<cbx33> wanna come along?
<fschoep> cbx33: if I can make it, sure
<cbx33> I'll record the session so I can put it online afterwards
<fschoep> cbx33: record, as in "audio"?
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> gonna blog about it later
<fschoep> So we're going to use VoIP or something?
<cbx33> to see who else is interested
<cbx33> yup
<cbx33> i think wer're goign to try teamspeak
<cbx33> unless anyone else has better ideas from my blog post
<fschoep> OK, keep me posted on it
<fschoep> I'm going to fix some bugs now and try nysosym's emblems, be back in a few minutes
<nysosym> :)
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'm just gonna eat
<fschoep> cbx33: OK
<sharperguy> is the egdy usplash finished?
<fschoep> sharperguy: not yet
<sharperguy> ok
<sharperguy> will it have messages about whats happening like the previous ones?
<fschoep> sharperguy: probably not
<sharperguy> ok
<sharperguy> its jsut handy to know where things crash
<fschoep> sharperguy: use the diagnostic boot option
<sharperguy> though it could be totaly different with upstart anyway
<sharperguy> yea
<fschoep> You can also use ALT+F1 to switch to console
<fschoep> nysosym: you put the orange emblems in scalable/emblems and added .icon files, right?
<fschoep> nysosym: is there anything else to it?
<nysosym> fschoep: no, the icons in scalable are a little bit useless. I have putt, all emblems in 48x48 emblems and it works perfectly ^^
<fschoep> nysosym: prerendered ones?
<nysosym> i don't understand completely how, but it works ^^
<nysosym> fschoep: no, *svgs
<fschoep> nysosym: right, so SVGs in 48x48 and .icon files?
<nysosym> no .icon files :)
<fschoep> OK
<nysosym> have a look on it ;)
<fschoep> Yes, hold on
<nysosym> ahhh
<nysosym> remove all svgs in 48x48 and put them in scalable/emblems works although
<nysosym> fine :)
<nysosym> thats would be a better way
<fschoep> But there's also those .icon files which I don't have on vanilla Ubuntu
<nysosym> remove all ^^ :D
<nysosym> these only for different languages
<fschoep> Right
<fschoep> All SVGs are in scalable/emblems
<fschoep> Now what do I do?
<nysosym> delete everything in 48x48/emblems
<fschoep> Everything, even the existing desktop emblem?
<nysosym> the emblems should work although :D
<nysosym> yes
<nysosym> everything
<fschoep> They don't, do I need to logout?
<nysosym> they don`t nedded anymore
<fschoep> Still no luck.
<fschoep> I unpacked your tarball
<fschoep> Copied your scalable/emblems/*.svg to my scalable/emblems
<fschoep> Erased 48x48/emblems/*
<nysosym> replace alhtough the index.theme with mine, BUT i have found some bugs
<fschoep> Oh dear, tell me
<nysosym> in my package are some icons in System>Administration like the old gnome ones
<nysosym> i will try to delete these bugs
<fschoep> I found out how to get the emblems to work
<fschoep> But I'm missing a few it seems
<fschoep> In the index.theme I removed references to the smaller emblems
<nysosym> fschoep: can u send my the vanilla index.theme of human?
<nysosym> please :)
<fschoep> Sure
<fschoep> nysosym: one moment please
<nysosym> no problem :)
<fschoep> Trying DCC
<nysosym> ok :)
<fschoep> nysosym: see anything?
<nysosym> hmm no :-/
<fschoep> E-mailed it to you
<nysosym> ok
<nysosym> thx :)
<nysosym> fschoep: woot, 128x128 i doesn't have these folders :D
<fschoep> no
<fschoep> scalable does
<nysosym> hmm okay, the adminstration menu bug is away
<nysosym> a lot of emblems working although, but "stockmail-priority-high" "photos" and "unreadable" make some problems
<fschoep> Indeed, I didn't see photos and unreadable
<nysosym> strange
<nysosym> very strange
<nysosym> aaa
<nysosym> i have a possible answer for that problem
<nysosym> only a "name" failure, renome "emblem-photo.svg" to "emblem-photos.svg"
<fschoep> nysosym: right, and the others?
<nysosym> "embleam-unread.svg" to "emblem-unreadable.svg
<nysosym> but i don`t have an answer for stockmail-priority-high
<nysosym> because i don't know how i can make a underlined "m"
<fschoep> no problem, maybe we can borrow a symlink from another theme
<fschoep> nysosym: I would be very very happy if you could send me a tarball containing all properly named SVGs
<nysosym> hmm
<nysosym> sure, but i doesn`t have the "stockmail" one
<fschoep> what's the naming problem exactly?
<nysosym> the name must be "emblem-stock(underlined "m")ail-priority-high.svg"
<nysosym> hmm
<fschoep> can't you cut-n-paste it from nautilus?
<nysosym> no, thats the problem :(
<fschoep> ok
<fschoep> it should be stock_mail_priority-high.png
<fschoep> Just use underscores _
<nysosym> *svg ;)
<fschoep> right
<fschoep> SVG
<nysosym> i will try it
<nysosym> mom
<nysosym> hmm damn, this doesn't work :(((
<nysosym> why does the dialog expect these icon?
<nysosym> i don't understand this
<nysosym> he should only usw, the icons in scalable
<nysosym> *use
<fschoep> nysosym: can you send me a tarball with the best working version you can produce? I'll work from there.
<fschoep> I'm going to log out soon, going to bed.
<nysosym> ok
<nysosym> a little mom please
<nysosym> *fail*
<fschoep> nysosym: no problem, just drop me a mail with the stuff you can get working, I'll make sure we get that tested and in Edgy
<nysosym> ok
<nysosym> please go to sleep no
<nysosym> good night
<nysosym> cu later :)
<nysosym> sending e-mail :)
<nysosym> i will go to beed no although
<nysosym> good night my friend, and sry for all work that i made.. :-/
<fschoep> nysosym: thanks and don't worry - this is my job :)
<nysosym> no, i will thank u
<nysosym> :)))
<nysosym> bye bye
<fschoep> goodnight all
<fschoep> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-05
<nysosym> goood morning fschoep :)
<fschoep> Ni nysosym
<fschoep> Hi nysosym *
<nysosym> how are u?
<fschoep> nysosym: Got a cold, otherwise fine, you?
<nysosym> the same like u ;)
<nysosym> I'll make me some coffee now
<fschoep> nysosym: great, I'm the weekly dev meeting so I might reply a bit late everytime
<nysosym> absolute no problem :)))
<nysosym> what i ever wanna ask fschoep, is developing ubuntu your main job?
<fschoep> nysosym: kind of at the moment, yes
<nysosym> well paid? :D
<fschoep> nysosym: I can't comment on that one in public
<nysosym> ok i understand this :)
<fschoep> nysosym: OK
<fschoep> :)
<BHSPitLappy> well, the profits those shipit cd's bring in have to go somewhere
<fschoep> BHSPitLappy: right :)
<BHSPitLappy> ;)
<BHSPitLappy> so you're a Canonical dude or something?
<BHSPitLappy> I work for Wendy's... not quite as noble an endeavor
<fschoep> No I'm just a normal person working on Ubuntu but I'm being paid for it
<BHSPitLappy> ah.
<nysosym> wendys BHSPitLappy?
<BHSPitLappy> nysosym, it's a restaurant chain, like McDonald's, etc
<BHSPitLappy> but better food ;)
<fschoep> It's a bit of a coincidence I got this opportunity but I really like doing this
<BHSPitLappy> I've gotta get to bed, night night everyone
<nysosym> ahhh okay, i`m from german and never hear that name :D
<BHSPitLappy> yeah, lucky lucky fschoep
<nysosym> gn8 BHSPitLappy :)
<fschoep> BHSPitLappy: g'night
<BHSPitLappy> night
<nysosym> fschoep: a dev "only" for the art, or everything about ubuntu?
<fschoep> nysosym: my role is officially "Artist in Chief" so I'm on the artwork side mainly
<fschoep> But I don't mind fixing bugs in code or anything
<nysosym> ahh ok, i will go to do the same like u, in future :)
<nysosym> i love graphic design ^^
<fschoep> nysosym: great, I hope you will be on the team for next release :)
<nysosym> :D sure
<nysosym> i will try m best
<fschoep> Good
<fschoep> Have you had a chance to get that mail priority emblem to work?
<nysosym> but at moment i do everything to find these (sorry) stupid icon....
<nysosym> fschoep: nothing, sry :(
<fschoep> OK, no problem I'll look into it today
<nysosym> i have asked the gnome people, but they can't help me :(
<nysosym> fschoep: maybe a bug? :D
<fschoep> nysosym: could be, if I can't get it to work I'll seek out further advice
<nysosym> fine :)
<nysosym> thanks for all :)
<nysosym> for me it's a honesty that MY icons will be in the next ubuntu release :)))
<nysosym> brb :)
<nysosym> re :D
<nysosym> fschoep: how long is such a developer meeting? :)
<fschoep> nysosym: one to one-and-a-half hours
<fschoep> we're done now
<nysosym> any results? :)
<fschoep> nysosym: just the weekly status update and the fact that final artwork needs to go in this week
<nysosym> although many many many work... :-/
<akulah> I have a problem
<fschoep> akulah: shoot
<akulah> the usplash in edgy don't show
<fschoep> akulah: I think that's a known issue
<akulah> i created a new one
<akulah> but still didn't work
<fschoep> akulah: I see
<fschoep> akulah: did you follow the Wiki HowTo?
<akulah> partialy
<fschoep> OK, if you follow it completely step by step it might work?
<akulah> no
<akulah> it worked for dapper
<akulah> but not for edgy
<akulah> even the tools used are different
<fschoep> Right, I know of people who got it to work
<fschoep> I'm afraid I can't help you with it right now, maybe others can
<akulah> tnx very much
<akulah> I'll keep trying
<akulah> :)
<akulah> cheers!
<nixternal> akulah: i can help you get it fixed
<nixternal>  /etc/usplash.conf
<nixternal> set it to 1024 and 768 respectedly..and then 'sudo update-initramfs -u' and then reboot..you should have a Usplash ;)
<akulah> OK
<nixternal> if that don'e work...then the links between /etc/alternatives and /usr/lib/usplash are broken
<akulah> I'm on it
<nixternal> hehe..i have done triage on this bug all week long..not really an artwork issue all that much as it is a bad usplash.conf or broken symlinks
<nixternal> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 41 2006-10-04 16:53 /etc/alternatives/usplash-artwork.so -> /usr/lib/usplash/usplash-theme-kubuntu.so
<akulah> I've checked out the links
<akulah> and are ok
<nixternal> ok..so they are good?
<nixternal> good deal.how about the usplash.conf?
<nixternal> i love the /cmd script with konversation...no more doing it in konsole then copy and pasting
<akulah> thre usplash.conf has to be modified
<nixternal> here is mine
<nixternal> # Usplash configuration file
<nixternal> xres=1024
<nixternal> yres=768
<akulah> mine:
<akulah> # Usplash configuration file
<akulah> xres=640
<akulah> yres=480
<nixternal> the reason you may not have seen it, is because the monitor picked it up as "out of synch"
<nixternal> ya, set it like mine, then 'sudo update-initramfs -u' and reboot to see if that works
<akulah> k
<akulah> just done it
<akulah> tnx
<nixternal> no problem ;)
<akulah> I have to reboot
<akulah> :)
<nixternal> yay
<nixternal> haha
<akulah> o
<akulah> just one question
<nixternal> shoot
<akulah> do I have to set the vga in /boot/grub/menu.lst to 791?
<nixternal> no
<akulah> ok
<nixternal> i never messed with it, and from what i have seen, those who have, had worse problems
<akulah> ok
<akulah> bye
<nixternal> ya, i just double checked, mine is commented out, so it doesn't do it
<nixternal> later
<nixternal> enjoy
<akulah> and thanx again
<nixternal> np
<nysosym> hi Huwshimi :))
<Huwshimi> Hi nysosym
<nysosym> wb  fschoep :)
<fschoep> nysosym: what's up?
<fschoep> nysosym: I got dropped since I closed my Macbook's lid :)
<nysosym> any steps forward with the icon? :D
<fschoep> nysosym: working on those still, doing lots of work in between, but getting there
<nysosym> are u the only one who works on the artwork?
<fschoep> mostly, yes
<nysosym> wow O.o
<fschoep> Well, I'm not the only one *doing* the artwork
<fschoep> But I am the one working on getting it in there
<fschoep> And making sure it works and it's good and all
<nysosym> sure, but although a huge mission
<fschoep> Yes, I'm glad you see that :)
<nysosym> good speed! ;)
<nysosym> hi andreasn :)
<andreasn> hi
<nysosym> how are u?
<andreasn> just fine
<andreasn> about to go to the bank and get myself some dollars
<andreasn> before leaving for boston tomorrow
<andreasn> what about you?
<nysosym> i'm fine too
<fschoep> Seveas: how are you doing? I've trying to contact you regarding the spotlight usplash.
<fschoep> I've been*
<Seveas> fschoep, just replied
<fschoep> Seveas: right, I'll e-mail it again
<fschoep> Seveas: attached and sent
<nysosym> fschoep: i`ve been a new step forward with the emblems, the "unread" icon in the sidebar works perfectly now :)
<fschoep> nysosym: any special trick?
<nysosym> no, just made a copy of "emblem-readonly.svg" and rename the copy to "emblem-nowrite.svg" :)
<fschoep> nysosym: right
<nysosym> you know that? :D
<fschoep> nysosym: now I know ;0
<fschoep> nysosym: I'm cleaning up my Edgy to make sure the emblems work with a minimum of changes
<nysosym> :)
<nysosym> very strange, the "stock_mail-priority-high" icon is only available in "Human", "Tangerine", and "Tango"
<Seveas> fschoep, could you pint me to the background image for the spotlight theme
<fschoep> Seveas: sure
<fschoep> http://thingmajig.org/tmp/usplash_plus/final/png/usplash_rlsl_7_000.png
<fschoep> Can you use one of the static frame as a background?
<fschoep> frames*
<fschoep> I think you can fill up the rest of the screen with dark brown at the edges
<fschoep> Seveas: brb
<nysosym> fschoep: I HAVE THE ANSWER :DDD
<nysosym> "rename "emblem-stock_mail-priority-high.svg" to "stock_mail-priority-high.svg"
<nysosym> it works perfectly :)
<fschoep> nysosym: right, thanks - that solves all problems then?
<fschoep> Seveas: back
<nysosym> yes, all is solved :)
<fschoep> nysosym: one thing left
<nysosym> what?
<fschoep> nysosym: keeping the existing desktop emblem
<fschoep> nysosym: and having it in prerendered sizes
<nysosym> the emblems?
<fschoep> yes, the Human desktop emblem
<nysosym> hmm the ubuntu logo? *unsure*
<fschoep> nysosym: no, we have this teeny tiny desktop emblem
<fschoep> nysosym: it is normally on top of the desktop folder
<nysosym> yes
<nysosym> i have maked a new one *shame*
<fschoep> we need to find a way to keep that one while adding yours
<fschoep> nysosym: I know you made a new one, but I think we can't drop the existing one
<fschoep> nysosym: the current one needs to be in there because of the desktop-button in the lower left corner
<nysosym> but my new one is only in the Emblems, in menus are everything "old"
<nysosym>  hmm
<fschoep> nysosym: that's the problem
<fschoep> nysosym: we need to keep the current desktop icon in the emblems for consistency
<fschoep> nysosym: the others can all be yours
<nysosym> although u need, the original for the "Desktop" folder in home?
<fschoep> nysosym: yes
<nysosym> ok
<nysosym> but i haven't a backup of my original human folder :/
<fschoep> I think you could do a "sudo apt-get --reinstall install human-icon-theme"
<nysosym> ok mom :)
<fschoep> nysosym: make sure you have a backup though!
<nysosym> yes
<nysosym> personally i use my icon ^^
<nysosym> looks much better in the home folder :D
<fschoep> nysosym: I see, but could you try keeping the original one?
<nysosym> sure! no problem :)
<fschoep> nysosym: keep in mind that Human contains prerendered version of that emblem so you might need to futz around with index.theme a bit
<fschoep> versions*
<fschoep> nysosym: brb, lunchtime :)
<nysosym> k have fun :)
<fschoep> thanks
<Seveas> hmm, imagemagick +map does NOT do what it's supposed to...
<cbx33> Frank been around yeT?
<nysosym> no
<Seveas> yes
<Seveas> he left not too long before you joined
<nysosym> brb
<nysosym> returned :)
<nysosym> hi nenotnom :)
<nenotnom> nysosym: hey
<nysosym> how are u? :)
<nenotnom> I'm fine, you?
<nysosym> fine too :)
<nysosym> any problems? :)
<nenotnom> no art related problems
<nysosym> ok :)
<cbx33> dang it
<cbx33> well you guys are art....so http://www.progbox.co.uk/finals/RC/exportUB2.ogg
<cbx33> shorter startup sound
<nysosym> very very good :)
<cbx33> really?
<nysosym> is that your own creation?
<cbx33> I'm gonna do the shutdown tonight
<cbx33> yeh
<cbx33> I rerecorded it all last night with my nice new sound card
<nysosym> respect
<nysosym> which type of sound card one with asio support? :)
<nysosym> wb fschoep :)
<fschoep> nysosym: hi
<fschoep> nysosym: it wasn't a long lunch, I also did some other print work :)
<nysosym> you have 2 new mails, but please ignore the first one ^^
<fschoep> nysosym: I saw them, yes
<fschoep> nysosym: did you manage to keep the original Human desktop emblem?
<nysosym> yes
<nysosym> all works like a sharm
<fschoep> nysosym: even prerendered?
<cbx33> fschoep http://www.progbox.co.uk/finals/RC/exportUB2.ogg
<fschoep> Hey cbx33 didn't see you get on, hi!
<cbx33> nysosym: it's a delta 1010
<cbx33> hi
<cbx33> i gotta go teach my python class now
<fschoep> cbx33: MP3 please ;) ?
<fschoep> cbx33: on Mac
<nysosym> fschoep: yes even prerendered :d
<nysosym> :d
<nysosym> ^^
<cbx33> I'll have to do that in a min ;)
<cbx33> I'll get it for you in about an hour ;)
<fschoep> nysosym: OK, thanks - I'll be going through it and I'll pass it to Daniel if it's looking good.
<nysosym> fschoep: no problem, i will thank u! :(
<nysosym> :) *
<fschoep> nysosym: I'm here if you find an error, otherwise I'll get in touch with you
<Seveas> fschoep, I am getting increasingly frustrated with both the gimp and imagemagick
<fschoep> nysosym: thanks for doing the additional debugging work ;)
<Seveas> they seem to ignore me
<fschoep> Seveas: I can understand, so can I help?
<Seveas> I am trying to make all images use the same palette
<fschoep> Right
<Seveas> but whatever I do, one image fails to use that palette
<Seveas> only one(!)
<fschoep> Always one
<fschoep> Only one
<fschoep> What are you trying exactly?
<Seveas> once that is done, the theme is finished
<fschoep> Seveas: ooh, shiny
<fschoep> Can I help you by making sure they all use the same palette?
<Seveas> it's the progressbar image that is now failing
<fschoep> Hmm. Can't you create a new one based on the new palette?
<fschoep> Or use a simple flat one?
<Seveas> I refuse to let some piece of software win ;)
<fschoep> Seveas: right :)
<fschoep> Seveas: I'd say go for the flat progress bar route if all else fails
<fschoep> Seveas: if I can help you by doing something with GIMP let me know, I'm here to help you out
<nysosym> fschoep: the network panel icon, is very stretched, a known bug, is that an artwork problem or a other?
<nysosym> (i know that bug from dapper) ^^
<fschoep> nysosym: https://launchpad.net/bugs/57626
<fschoep> nysosym: I patched is yesterday evening, fix is uploaded just now
<fschoep> it*
<nysosym> ahh okay :)
<fschoep> nysosym: enjoy
<nysosym> nice, thx :)
<fschoep> cbx33: any luck with the MP3?
<nysosym> the main server is sooo slow (11kbs).. *fail*
<Seveas> ok, so it looks like the palette is correct after all
<Seveas> but something in usplash is fucking up the pallette very, very bad
<fschoep> Seveas: oh dear, can you work around it?
<Seveas> no idea
<fschoep> Otherwise, trying a flat progress bar?
<fschoep> I'm all for a simple progress bar :)
<nysosym> brb *system is restarting*
<Seveas> actually, kamion broke it
<Seveas> while trying to 'fix' it for framebuffers
<Seveas> %#*&&@#!$@
<fschoep> Seveas: he's probably in u-devel go ahead and take a trout ;)
<Seveas> great, we now have white progressbars and blue text *everywhere*
<fschoep> Seveas: sounds good for Kubuntu
<Seveas> no
<Seveas> the kubuntu theme also looks horrible
<fschoep> Seveas: sorry, I was just trying to make a joke
<Seveas> and it looks like mjg59 is the one who broke it
<fschoep> Seveas: right, can I help you fix it somehow?
<nysosym> re
<ppd> hi
<fschoep> ppd: welcome
<nysosym> hi ppd :)
<fschoep> nysosym: question
<fschoep> nysosym: why are all "large" directories missing from your index.theme?
<nysosym> hmmmmm sry, "code optimizing"
<fschoep> nysosym: OK
<fschoep> nysosym: are there any real differences between the old and new index.theme?
<fschoep> except for removing the large sizes?
<Seveas> fschoep, creating the theme properly is now blocked on usplash being broken, other than that it's finished
<nysosym> not really
<fschoep> Seveas: that's good and bad to hear
<fschoep> Seveas: must I contact Kamion or mjh59 to solve it?
<fschoep> Seveas: I'm not too sure about usplash internals so maybe you should contact them directly?
<Seveas> I poked mjg59 already
<Seveas> don't know who broke it
<fschoep> nysosym: OK, so it should work by just adding the SVGs now?
<nysosym> sure
<nysosym> i think so
<fschoep> Seveas: I'm not sure either but Kamion said something about usplash this morning in the dev meeting.
<Seveas> ok
<fschoep> Seveas: let me try to find it for you
<fschoep> "Kamion:   usplash: tasksel enhancements to fix resolution detection on fresh d-i installs still needed."
<fschoep> Seveas: not sure if it's related
<Seveas> no
<fschoep> nysosym: OK great, saves me the trouble of checking index.theme :0
<nysosym> :D
<fschoep> Seveas: OK, then I'm probably not going to be able to help you
<nysosym> fschoep: hmm when i reinstall the human package with "sudo apt-get --reinstall install human-icon-theme" the cursor theme isn't integrated in the Human folder
<fschoep> nysosym: maybe install human cursor theme?
<fschoep> just an idea?
<nysosym> sure mom
<troy_s> heyas fschoep
<fschoep> troy_s: howdy
<fschoep> troy_s: up early again eh?
<troy_s> indeed
<fschoep> troy_s: anything on your mind right now
<nysosym> fschoep: aahh okay, that works, but than you must remove the cursor folder, from my human package :D
<fschoep> nysosym: right, don't worry I'll make sure nothing bad happens!
<fschoep> nysosym: if something goes wrong I'll point all bug reporters to YOU :-)
<fschoep> j/k
<Seveas> fschoep, I may have found the bug
<fschoep> Seveas: can you explain it in understandable English?
<Seveas> no
<nysosym> fschoep: hehe okay :D
<nysosym> i will go to work now
<Seveas> I need to pinpoint it first ;)
<nysosym> good bye my friends :)
<fschoep> Seveas: OK I see
<nysosym> and happy designing ;)
<fschoep> nysosym: see you, thanks !
<Seveas> otherwise I may say understandable rubbis
<Seveas> h
<fschoep> Seveas: right, if you need to vent anything I'm here - I can understand most technical gibberish
<troy_s> nvidia aquired by intel possibly eh?
<fschoep> troy_s: should be interesting
<fschoep> troy_s: with ATI now under AMD?
<cbx33> fschoep: do you still need an mp3
<fschoep> cbx33: yes, please
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> hang on
<cbx33> I'll mail it to you ok?
<fschoep> cbx33: yes, thanks
<cbx33> done
<fschoep> cbx33: I got it - do you have time later on to chat?
<cbx33> i have 10 mins now
<cbx33> and then possibly some more time in about an hour twenty or so
<fschoep> Right let's do this now, then?
<cbx33> sure
<cbx33> pm?
<cbx33> or here
<fschoep> PM's better
<cbx33> ok
<fschoep> Seveas: any luck yet?
<Seveas> fschoep, I filed it as bug 64171
<fschoep> Seveas: OK, using Malone is probably the best way to go indeed
<fschoep> Seveas: did it change like one day ago?
<Seveas> no, but I didn't look at usplash for a few days
<fschoep> OK, but it shouldn't be changing radically this late in the cycle I think (got disconnect because the battery ran flat).
<Seveas> well, the change is a bugfix
<Seveas> but it caused this new bug
<fschoep> I see
<Seveas> and I have no experience whatsovere programming raw libsvga, so I'm at a loss
<fschoep> OK, maybe Keybuk can help if he's around and not too busy
<Seveas> no, only mjg59 is intimately familiar with that code
<cbx33> is frank around?
<cbx33> fschoep,
<cbx33> can you listen oggs now?
<fschoep> cbx33: no Max
<fschoep> Mac OS
<cbx33> grrr
<cbx33> hehe
<fschoep> cbx33: I was working on another machine, switched keyboard quickly :)
<cbx33> hehe
<fschoep> Most of the time (always) when I'm on IRC I'm on Mac OS
<cbx33> where is lame now
<fschoep> lame.sf.net?
<fschoep> You can send me OGGs, I'll upload them to my other machine and listen there
<fschoep> cbx33: Oggs will be fine, too
<cbx33> s'ok I'll getmp3s
<cbx33> lame seems to have vanished from the repos
<fschoep> cbx33: did you enable universe / multiverse?
<PingunZ> Hey all
<cbx33> yes
<cbx33> you on dapper?
<fschoep> Hi PingunZ
<fschoep> cbx33: Breezy :P
<fschoep> Kubuntu Breezy
<PingunZ> Edgy :)
<fschoep> I upgraded from Hoary early this year I think
<fschoep> Well, "upgrade" is a nice word for a complete reinstall
<cbx33> heheh
<PingunZ> fschoep: Why don't you upgrade then ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: it all works
<cbx33> fschoep, I think you're gonna like it
<fschoep> PingunZ: and I now use Mac OS X as my main OS on the Macbook
<fschoep> PingunZ: bought an Apple keyboard mouse and connected it to my TFT
<fschoep> PingunZ: works perfectly :)
<PingunZ> But breezy is ultra slow compared to edgy
<fschoep> cbx33: ooh shiny!
<fschoep> PingunZ: I've got a fast machine ;)
<PingunZ> fschoep: me too
<fschoep> PingunZ: and it's K ubuntu
<fschoep> PingunZ: I'm not sure, but Kubuntu Breezy feels good
<cbx33> shiny?
<fschoep> cbx33: yeah, it was an in-joke
<fschoep> cbx33: too difficult to explain right now
<fschoep> PingunZ: I run Dapper and Edgy under VMware, does that count?
<cbx33> heheheh
<PingunZ> I run Ubuntu edgy :)
<PingunZ> uname[Linux Edgy 2.6.17-10-386 #2 Mon Oct 2 13:44:45 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux] 
<fschoep> When I test Edgy, I tunnel VMware running on my Kubuntu Breezy via X11 to Mac OS X :0
<fschoep> the mind boggles
<PingunZ> fschoep: Backup && install edgy :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: I should do that once it's released
<fschoep> PingunZ: not sure if I get to it though - I'm kind of happy with my current setup and there's nothing I need on top of that
<fschoep> PingunZ: maybe I'm getting old
<PingunZ> So .. your like running MS95 :D
<fschoep> nah :)
<PingunZ> I'm on XP :D
<fschoep> I've got that too somewhere
<PingunZ> I haven't :)
<fschoep> I use it for Cubase (ring a bell cbx33)?
<PingunZ> Linux-only on this desky
<fschoep> PingunZ: Linux, Mac and Windows only on my desk!
<PingunZ> rofl
<fschoep> PingunZ: I used to noodle around with Solaris, but that's not one of my pastimes anymore
<cbx33> yup
<PingunZ> At least no bsd or solaris :)
<cbx33> ./me didn't like cubase
<fschoep> I can understand
<fschoep> It's just that Cubase came with my control surface so I used it
<fschoep> mixer / control surface I should say
<fschoep> It's a small Tascam US-428, maybe you know it
<fschoep> cbx33: compiling lame :) ?
<cbx33> heheeh
<cbx33> I give up
<cbx33> http://progbox.co.uk/finals/RC/export2.ogg
<fschoep> cbx33: OK hang on
<fschoep> cbx33: switching screens now
<cbx33> ok
<fschoep> cbx33: great
<cbx33> yeh?
<fschoep> cbx33: it's coming way closer now
<PingunZ> cbx33: Can I comment that sound ?
<cbx33> PingunZ, sure
<PingunZ> Ok .. here I go :)
<PingunZ> Well .. there are 2 main things .. 1) The end 2) The semi-climax
<PingunZ> 1) The end keeps on going .. like 5 seconds ..
<cbx33> wanna shorten it?
<PingunZ> Yes :)
<PingunZ> Just skip that end :)
<cbx33> the semi climax?
<PingunZ> The semi climax .. well this is hard to explain for me since I'm not english but I'll try :)
<cbx33> ok
<PingunZ> So .. you start with a little climax .. A tone .. A higher tone .. and then .. Instead of an even higher tone you repeat nearly the same tone
<PingunZ> Got it ? :)
<cbx33> i know what you mean
<cbx33> I'll work on it
<PingunZ> Ok ;)
<PingunZ> The last three tones are like the same ..
<PingunZ> I'd change one of them into a feller tone :)
<cbx33> hey fschoep
<cbx33> just gonna rework the sound now
<fschoep> cbx33: OK, great
<fschoep> cbx33: remember, less is more :-)
<cbx33> yup
<nysosym> goood evening :)
<nysosym> jippi, a new human icon package :D
<PingunZ> What's new in it // downloading it too ;)
<nysosym> my emblems :D
<PingunZ> Oh :)
<PingunZ> Nice .. they rock ! :)
<PingunZ> The orange or colored ones ?
<nysosym> the oranged, but a better consistent with human
<nysosym> and thx :)
<PingunZ> Orange ones I see :)
<PingunZ> Well .. I preferred the colored ones but .. the orange ones still look great
<nysosym> thx, a lot of bugfixing is in there ^^
<PingunZ> fschoep: Got another job for me ? :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: can you create wallpapers/
<PingunZ> O_o
<PingunZ> Well .. no :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: like make some wavy lines
<fschoep> OK
<fschoep> PingunZ: you're the GDM guy right?
<PingunZ> Honestly .. My skills are really bad :)
<PingunZ> Yup .
<fschoep> PingunZ: can you add PAM message support to all five GDM's we're shipping with Edgy?
<fschoep> That includes Blubuntu
<fschoep> I'll give you a pointer to what you need to do
<PingunZ> Oki
<PingunZ> When do I need to finish it ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: yesterday?
<nysosym> ^^
<nysosym> lol
<fschoep> PingunZ: no somewhere early next week is good
<PingunZ> Oki :)
<PingunZ> You mean pam-errors ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edgy-gdm-themes/+bug/57588
<PingunZ> Like caps lock or bad username ?
<fschoep> Yep
<fschoep> PingunZ: you know "apt-get source" right?
<PingunZ> yes I do fschoep :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: if you can create some patches against the right packages (edgy-gdm-themes) that'd be nice
<PingunZ> So I apt-get source it .. midifie it .. and then I do what ?
<PingunZ> *modifie
<PingunZ> *modify :)
<fschoep> first make a copy of the file you edit
<fschoep> then later use "diff -c3 oldfile newfile > patchfile.txt" and send that to me or attach it to the bugreport
<PingunZ> Oki :)
* PingunZ is apt-get sourceing it :)
<fschoep> you should also look in blubuntu-look tropic-look and peace-loog
<fschoep> peace-look
<PingunZ> the source packages ?
<fschoep> yes
<PingunZ> Hmm .. apt-cache search blubuntu-look -> None ..
<PingunZ> fschoep: Human theme is done
<fschoep> PingunZ: both GDMs?
<PingunZ> Nowp :)
<PingunZ> Just the first one .. needed to check if it worked .. :)
<fschoep> Right, well good job already
<fschoep> Can you add the patch to the bug report?
<PingunZ> fschoep: Humancircle is done too :)
<fschoep> PingunZ: right, thanks :0
<fschoep> PingunZ: attached to bug report?
<PingunZ> fschoep: I was busy making the patch file :)
<PingunZ> Gimme a sec ;)
<fschoep> OK
<PingunZ> fschoep: How do I attach it ? just *attach file * ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: at the bottom you can add comments and patchfiles
<fschoep> Must be logged in
<fschoep> Click "Add a comment/attachment"
<PingunZ> Yup :)
<fschoep> one file at a time
<PingunZ> Found it ;)
<PingunZ> Damn .. Should I put it in a tar ?
<fschoep> No one patch file per comment
<fschoep> just add multiple comments
<PingunZ> Added ;)
<PingunZ> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/edgy-gdm-themes/+bug/57588
<PingunZ> brb
<PingunZ> fschoep: Tried ?
<fschoep> PingunZ: in an audio meeting with cbx33 kinda busy now
<PingunZ> Ok ;)
<PingunZ> I'll watch some tv then. cya
<fschoep> PingunZ: thanks already!
<fschoep> PingunZ: thanks
<PingunZ> No problem fschoep ;)
<fschoep> PingunZ: can you do Blubuntu as well?
<fschoep> PingunZ: looking good so far
<cbx33> this audio meeting is very interesting ;)
<nysosym> cbx33: why? :D
<cbx33> hehehe
<cbx33> cos I'm playing live to fschoep
<cbx33> heheh
<PingunZ> fschoep: Put in all in a mail .. I'm going to bed :)
<PingunZ> night all
<fschoep> PingunZ: ok g\night
<fschoep> PingunZ: thanks
<nysosym> gn8 my friend :)
<PingunZ> ^^
<nysosym> hmm with inkscape it's impossible to make smooth gradient on higher resolutions *fail*
<nysosym> i will go to ed now
<nysosym> good night all
<nysosym> :)))
<nysosym> i'll hope to see u all later ;)
<BHSPitLappy> night
<fschoep> Goodnight all
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-06
<nysosym> goood morning :)
<nysosym> hi msikma :)
<nysosym> how are u?
<msikma> pretty okay, about to go to work
<nysosym> well, which job do u have? :)
* BHSPitLappy works at Wendy's
<nysosym> BHSPitLappy: i know :)
<nysosym> brb restart
* BHSPitLappy afraid
<nysosym> re
<nysosym> what du u think about these wallpaper?
<nysosym> http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orangegloss1280x1024qr6.png
<cbx33> hey fschoep
<fschoep> Hi
<nysosym> hi all :)
<fschoep> Hi cbx33
<nysosym> hi fschoep :)
<fschoep> Hi nysosym
<cbx33> that was a fun music session
<fschoep> cbx33: it was, indeed
<nysosym> http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orangegloss1280x1024qr6.png << fschoep what do u think? :D
<fschoep> nysosym: a wallpaper, right?
<nysosym> yes
<fschoep> nysosym: it's pretty bright
<cbx33> high contrast
<fschoep> nysosym: cbx33 is on the point
<fschoep> I like the orange color, maybe a bit bright to stare at all day long, but the contrast is a bit heavy
<nysosym> ok, i will remake them :D
<fschoep> nysosym: take your time, practive makes perfect :0
<nysosym> but personally i like high contrast, i know that aren't the specs
<fschoep> Damn this Apple keyboard has a stuck shift or something
<fschoep> I keep typing this smiley :0 instead of :)
<nysosym> fschoep: yesterday was string freeze right, are all artworks final now?
<fschoep> nysosym: no, sorry
<nysosym> hey, no problem, only a question, no reason for a sorry ;)
<fschoep> nysosym: last changes will be this week before the RC
<nysosym> nice :)
<fschoep> Logging off now to work on some wallpapers
<nysosym> ok :)
<nysosym> good speed! ;)
<nysosym> cu later
<fschoep> Right, cu later
<nysosym> wb PseudoPlacebo
<lapo> hi
<nysosym> hi
<nysosym> i will go to work now
<nysosym> cya my friends! :D
<troy_s> hail jimmac
<jimmac> \o
<fschoep> troy_s: ping
<fschoep> troy_s: please be there :)
<fschoep> Seveas: are you there? Did you manage to find someone to fix the palette bug?
<Seveas> fschoep, not yet
<fschoep> Seveas: OK, no problem - if you need someone to draw someone's attention I can help
<Seveas> you could try poking mjg59 ;)
<fschoep> Seveas: OK, you already created a bug report I think, right?
<Seveas> yes
<fschoep> Seveas: can you give me the bug number again :)
<Seveas> bug 64171
<Seveas> @config channel plugins.bugtracker.bugsnarfer True
<Seveas> bug 64171
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 64171 in usplash "Colors look bad " [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/64171
<fschoep> OK, thanks - looks good
<fschoep> mjg59 is the most likely lad to fix this?
<fschoep> Seveas: I'll assign it to mjg59 if he can fix it. It's an imporant issue to fix before release
<Seveas> quite
<Viper550> I have a pretty nice Usplash theme I think we should implement
<pradeep> will the current usplash for edgy be final?
<Viper550> I don't think so, it's so ugly!
<Viper550> But, this may be a good candinate for the final theme: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=46645
<pradeep> that's more like dapper :(
<Viper550> But, that's the point! It's a port!
<Viper550> who ctcp'd me?
<PingunZ> hey all
<fschoep> Hey cbx33 :)
<cbx33> hi fschoep
<cbx33> I can do some music with you tomorrow
<cbx33> sound cool?
<fschoep> cbx33: great, midday or evening?
<fschoep> or night?
<fschoep> or morning
<cbx33> hahaha
<fschoep> in order of preference :)
<cbx33> ae you around online all day tomorrow?
<fschoep> probably asleep in the morning :)
<fschoep> might go listen to some band in the evening
<fschoep> not sure yet
<cbx33> ok
<cbx33> I'll try and do it in afternoon then
<fschoep> I call that midday, right?
<cbx33> um...
<cbx33> if I said
<cbx33> 14 UTC?
<fschoep> That's 16.00 for me, sounds cool
<cbx33> ok cool
<fschoep> great
<fschoep> "Je reviendrai et je serai des milliards!"?
<fschoep> Ubugtu: translate that please
<fschoep> Not sure if my French is OK, but
<fschoep> I (will) come back and I am (going to be) millions?
<fschoep> No idea.
<fschoep> effraie I was wondering
<fschoep> What does it mean
<fschoep> "Je reviendrai et je serai des milliards!"
<effraie> i'll comee back, & i will be billions!
<fschoep> Right, I'll take a French course then, merci beaucoup.
<effraie> it's a sentence a a french activist theater piece, about spartacus
<fschoep> "fschoep: I (will) come back and I am (going to be) millions?"
<effraie> yes
<fschoep> Right, never heard of it - I just find French a funny language
<effraie> thanks ;)
<fschoep> So I always try my best to translate it
<fschoep> Helped me out in the UDS in Paris though, "Je voudrais quel'qe chose" or something
<fschoep> I speak and read it better than I write it ;)
<fschoep> Anyway, cbx33 see you tomorrow, goodnight everyone, enjoy your weekend!
<effraie> oh, i couldn't come at  the paris UDS,
<fschoep> effraie: too bad, you would've liked it
<cbx33> bye fschoep
<fschoep> cbx33: cu :)
<fschoep> effraie: good night to you as well
<fschoep> effraie: see you later :)
<effraie> i'm sure.. but i was at work all the time..
<effraie> @+
<fschoep> :)
<troy_s> ping
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-07
<fschoep> troy_s: I'm up late
<fschoep> troy_s: I'll wait till 0:30 then I'm off to bed
<fschoep> troy_s: you there?
<troy_s> fschoep
<fschoep> troy_s: right
<nysosym> gooood morning :D
<PingunZ> morning nysosym
<nysosym> hi PingunZ how are u? :)
<PingunZ> Fine, you ?
<nysosym> i'm fine too :)
<fschoep> cbx33: ping
<cbx33> fschoep, hey
<fschoep> cbx33: Sorry, I think I'm three minutes late
<cbx33> heheheh
<cbx33> that's np at all
<cbx33> ready to get the last sound sorted
<cbx33> I just need to switch computer
<cbx33> I'll brb
<fschoep> cbx33: OK
<cbx33> I'll start the teamspeak server
<fschoep> cbx33: right, I'll plug in my Hifi set
<cbx33> right hang on
<cbx33> need JACK now
<fschoep> cbx33: I hear you
<cbx33> nice
<troy_s> hey guys
<troy_s> how are things?
<troy_s> fschoep
<fschoep> Hi troy_s
<fschoep> troy_s: doing some new sound
<troy_s> how are you guys doing?
<troy_s> ahh.
<fschoep> fine, thanks, you?
<troy_s> the outro was probably the most impressive of the lot
<troy_s> very hans zimmer inspired
<fschoep> OK, it's gonna be half  a second now
<cbx33> troy_s, yeh....pity it's going
<fschoep> ;)
<cbx33> :(
<cbx33> hehe
<troy_s> blah move the outro to the intro
<fschoep> The soundscape was amazing
<troy_s> half a second isn't worth worrying about
<cbx33> heeh
<troy_s> form follows function
<troy_s> no one can decide on the function of the sound
<troy_s> personally, it isn't simply a thing that is there to cover up shutdown
<troy_s> it is rather like a back door
<troy_s> or even a front door when viewed from the inside.
<troy_s> hope it goes well.
<troy_s> what are you guys using to generate the work in?  ardour?
<fschoep> troy_s: cbx33 uses Ardour
<fschoep> we use TeamSpeak now to adjust sounds real time
<fschoep> works great
<troy_s> hrm...
<troy_s> how do you adjust the sounds realtime?
<fschoep> cbx33: just plays variations all the time
<troy_s> ah
<fschoep> and I feed back using IRC
<troy_s> nifty
<cbx33> yeh it's pretty cool
<fschoep> The sound quality isn't perfect, but once it gets close we share an MP3
<fschoep> proprietary tech everywhere
<troy_s> blah use ogg
<cbx33> heheh
<fschoep> I know, I know - blame Steve Jobs
<troy_s> blame your ass
<troy_s> not steve jobs
<fschoep> right, thanks ;)
<troy_s> if you want change, start with yourself.
<troy_s> did you get any relevant email lately fschoep?
<fschoep> troy_s: zilch, nada
<troy_s> okie.
<troy_s> back to bed for me
<fschoep> OK
<troy_s> i'll press the issue later.
<cbx33> heheh
<fschoep> sleep tight
<troy_s> and vert to ogg
<fschoep> right, will do
<troy_s> you can even get an ogg plugin for that junk itunes you run
<cbx33> nn troy_s
<cbx33> fschoep, I was just thinking...I shoudl really ship you wavs....
<cbx33> so we can keep fidelity
<fschoep> cbx33: indeed
<troy_s> flacs
<troy_s> :)
<troy_s> ok
<troy_s> out
<fschoep> troy_s: sleep well
<PingunZ_> hey fschoep
<fschoep> Hi PingunZ_
<PingunZ_> how are you ?
<fschoep> Fine, thanks - you?
<PingunZ_> Fine :)
<PingunZ_> Trying to get azureus to work .. trying to convert all my .m4a music to flac
<PingunZ_> blergh
<fschoep> :)
<PingunZ_> I even taught about reinstalling windows today
<fschoep> .m4a to flac is redundant, not?
<fschoep> m4a = lossy already?
<PingunZ_> No
<PingunZ_> m4a - lossless, flac too
<PingunZ_> but flac takes a lot less memory
<fschoep> I see
<fschoep> OK
<PingunZ_> And .. I just .. need it :)
<fschoep> ;)
<PingunZ_> Thats it .. I just feel like I have to install M$ again
* PingunZ_ thinks about the good times : Photoshop, azureus, iTunes, .. :)
<fschoep> You could use a Mac
<PingunZ_> Yes .. But I already have to many computers :)
<PingunZ_> I got this laptop as a gift from a company + my desktop ..
<PingunZ_> And I can only use one computer at a time :)
<fschoep> Indeed
<PingunZ_> Its just .. I'm sick of all the problems of linux :s
<PingunZ_> Linux is great .. but its not ready for the desktop .. argh I'm sounding like a noob now :p
<PingunZ_> *talking
<nysosym> hi my friends! :)
<PingunZ_> hey nysosym
* PingunZ_ opens cd drive, pops the M$ cd in ..
<nysosym> hi PingunZ_ :)))
<nysosym> Vista RC2? ^^
<PingunZ_> No, xp
<PingunZ_> I'm going back to ms
<PingunZ_> :'(
<nysosym> why?
<PingunZ_> Lots of things
<nysosym> i have a lot of time ^^
<PingunZ_> I'm just sick of all the problems, hours to make a program finally run ..
<nysosym> ok, and?
<PingunZ_> Well .. I kinda liked photoshop, iTunes, msn mess, azureus, ..
<PingunZ_> See .. Its just so easy .. no x crashes, ..
<nysosym> lol
<nysosym> :D
<nysosym> MSN Messenger, lol ^^
<PingunZ_> I know I'll hate it again when there is *not responding * but ..
<PingunZ_> nysosym: I know .. but all my friends use it .. ( I'm 15 ;) )
<cbx33> PingunZ_, I run photoshop on my linux machine |)
<PingunZ_> And the crystal clear skin :)
<PingunZ_> cbx33: Wine, crossover or cedega
<cbx33> wine
<cbx33> compiled from source
<cbx33> I can ever play counterstrike and hl2 now
<PingunZ_> That's nice .. but .. m$ can do that too :D
<cbx33> yeh but linux was never intented too
<cbx33> that's mroe impressive
<PingunZ_> Bah, I hate ms .. its just .. its so friggin easy :p
<cbx33> never....
* cbx33 is so happy now his home pc can be totally m$ free
<PingunZ_> Mine is too
<PingunZ_> And I love the apt-get thingie .. but .. bah
<cbx33> mine wasn't
<cbx33> i kept m$ for photo shop and cs/hl2
<PingunZ_> I stopped gaming for using ubuntu and stopped using photoshop
<PingunZ_> Today .. I needed azureus .. been trying the whole day but still not working
<PingunZ_> I got Ktorrent working .. but I need azureus ..
<PingunZ_> Maybe one of the probs is that I'm using a super unstable linux version ..
<PingunZ_> Ubuntu edgy + Beryl compiz, ..
#ubuntu-artwork 2006-10-08
<msikma> What the fuck
<msikma> Did I just mistype "ls" nine times in a row?
<PingunZ> sl ?
<msikma> "l", "sl", "sl", "sl", "sl", "l", "s", "l", "s", "ls"
<PingunZ> Hmm .. Stay away from the beer :)
<nysosym> Hi all shiny people! :)
<cbx33> hi everyone
<PingunZ> hey cbx33
<cbx33> hi PingunZ
<PingunZ> I'm still on linux .. just switched back to dapper
<cbx33> heheheh
<PingunZ> I now have azureus working :)
<cbx33> nice
<troy_s> pingunz -- keep the faith brother
<PingunZ> troy_s, What do you mean ?
<troy_s> you managed to get your azureus working
<troy_s> and stay on free software
<troy_s> which is important
<Burgundavia> troy_s: what is the timeframe for artwork freeze?
<troy_s> Burgundavia it was weeks ago
<troy_s> Burgundavia you would have to ask frank schoep
<troy_s> i haven't had the time to pay attention
<troy_s> professional life has been busy
<Burgundavia> I cannot take a screenshot with the "preview stuff" in it
<Burgundavia> that means the artwork is not frozne
<troy_s> what is the preview stuff?
<Burgundavia> the words on the default desktop
<troy_s> fundamentally, nothing is frozen until sab says it is.
<troy_s> and until he gets what he wants, assume nothing.
<Burgundavia> right
<Burgundavia> I have had this fight before
<troy_s> fight?
<troy_s> for getting things frozen?
<Burgundavia> for artwork not meeting timelines
<troy_s> well on the upside, his participation has increased
<troy_s> but unfortunately it has all come again far too late.
<troy_s> Burgundavia needless to say
<troy_s> with the newer process in place and such
<troy_s> it all should have and could have been frozen ages ago
<Burgundavia> yep
<troy_s> with all of the polishing tweeks
<troy_s> such as the window border palette matching etc
<troy_s> but of course
<troy_s> bikeshedding abounds
<troy_s> and we are effectively back where we started
<PingunZ> back :)
<nysosym> gooood evening
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-01
<lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: minor changes will probably be made.
<TiaGo|SouZa> lassegul: I heard about the change in the default wallpaper
<TiaGo|SouZa> but will something change in the icons default set?!
<lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: i dont think so
<lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: whats the problem?
<TiaGo|SouZa> hm
<TiaGo|SouZa> I really think the Human set too "cartoonish"
<TiaGo|SouZa> :p
<TiaGo|SouZa> I'd like to know if that will change
<TiaGo|SouZa> but aparently not
<TiaGo|SouZa> :)
<lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: ok. too late to do anything about that now. there probably will be a change for hardy
<TiaGo|SouZa> hm
<TiaGo|SouZa> listen, I'd like to participate of this team
<TiaGo|SouZa> but I really don't know how things are done here
<TiaGo|SouZa> how the contribuition process happens
<lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: hmm, lapo said something about this the other day. let me see if i cant pull out a log for you.
<TiaGo|SouZa> ok!
<_MMA_> TiaGo|SouZa: Are you an artist?
<TiaGo|SouZa> amateour
<TiaGo|SouZa> I do it in my free time
<TiaGo|SouZa> :)
<_MMA_> Well you could always post you ideas for replacement icons.
<lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: i couldnt find the log. i was probably connecting from another computer.
<TiaGo|SouZa> that's my question, where do I post it?!
<TiaGo|SouZa> I heard that u have a mailing list, a forum and a wiki
<TiaGo|SouZa> I'm not familiar with any of those stuff, but I can become familiar anyway
<TiaGo|SouZa> lassegul: :-/
<lassegul> nothlit: this is why we should have the gallery :D
<lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: im really not sure. i would have asked lapo, but he isnt here right now. do you know _MMA_ ?
<_MMA_> As to where to post?
<lassegul> _MMA_: yeo
<lassegul> *yep
<_MMA_> Well the Hardy WIKI looks to be in some flux as there are 3 places to put things. I here this will be paired down/consolidated.
<TiaGo|SouZa> do u have a mailing list?!
<_MMA_> Subscribing to the ML is good as well. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
<lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: if you want to participate in the upcoming release hardy, join our meeting on tuesday
<_MMA_> TiaGo|SouZa: But do realize getting a completely new and cohesive iconset done in 1 development cycle is a daunting task.
<lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: see channel topic.
<TiaGo|SouZa> how can I join that meeting?!
<TiaGo|SouZa> VoIP?!
<_MMA_> TiaGo|SouZa: In #ubuntu-meeting
<_MMA_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
<TiaGo|SouZa> hmmm
<TiaGo|SouZa> hey, about IRC I'm familiar..I'm here, ain't I?!
<TiaGo|SouZa> :p
<terlmann> not to me :-)
<_MMA_> What are you talking about?
* _MMA_ pets terlmann.
<lassegul> lol
* terlmann pets _MMA_ back , hard
<TiaGo|SouZa> hahaha
<terlmann> so what's this saxaphone chap doing here ?
<terlmann> how can I help you run him off ?
<_MMA_> TiaGo|SouZa: Ill assume you think that link is only for IRC n00bs. It contains a list of all the Ubuntu IRC channels.
<_MMA_> terlmann: Be careful. Of seen the same asked about you.;)
<terlmann> That it does , and I have never read it :D
<TiaGo|SouZa> It's in my bookmark now!
<TiaGo|SouZa> :D
<_MMA_> cool
<TiaGo|SouZa> how things work in the artwork end?!
<terlmann> _MMA_ : your comment on 17:54 made no sense at all due to improper english usage :-P
<TiaGo|SouZa> we submit some wallpapers, sounds, icons, etc, and someone choose what suit best?
<lassegul> im going to bed. good night guys.
<terlmann> SouZa : this is a channel where we hang out. at the moment we are waiting for a meeting on october second to determine the theme for the next release
<terlmann> we will hold the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting obviously
<lassegul> terlmann: you have read the meeting topics havent you?
<terlmann> after that , yea , we well all crack down and start at stuff
<lassegul> terlmann: sorry i misunderstood you
<_MMA_> terlmann: I actually have a list someone made with grammatical errors made by you lately. Im not your student. I dont care. ;)
<terlmann> :-P
<terlmann> someone made one ? ! ? !
<_MMA_> :D
<terlmann> I am impressed that you take me that seriously
<terlmann> LOL
<_MMA_> You have a rep your not above. ;)
<terlmann> my rep endears me to you chaps , I know it
<terlmann> I have one in many places
<_MMA_> Whatever lets ya sleep.
<lassegul> good night again.
<terlmann> SO : who wants to bet that Hoary will look like dapper (but more brownish ) ?
<terlmann> (I just asked a trick and introverted question)
<terlmann> kwwii : will our ol leader be at the meeting or will he be off somewhere plotting ?
* _MMA_ puts down newspaper in the channel for terlmann's "piddle" and goes to eat dinner.
* terlmann begins to cut the paper into origami figurines of Wily Coyote , Suuper Genious...
<TiaGo|SouZa> that pallete will never change?!?!
<TiaGo|SouZa> :p
<terlmann> Tiago : what are you refering to ?
<terlmann> the one for ubuntu ?
<terlmann> O it will change , but kwwii will say when and where
<terlmann> he is our resident correspondent with the leader of ubuntu
<terlmann> who is obviously in control
<terlmann> as for the palette, the grapevine says brown and black....
<terlmann> and some orange
<terlmann> personally I wanted white but i am a nobody :-D
<TiaGo|SouZa> kwwii is the correspondent with the leader of ubuntu?!
<terlmann> my telepathic powers arnt up to snuff yet
<terlmann> yea
<TiaGo|SouZa> mark shuftlwork (i really dunno how to write it!)
<terlmann> ol mark is the boss and personally wants a hand in this
<terlmann> kwwii is here to see it through
<_MMA_> Shuttleworth
<terlmann> Worthy of Shuttle = went into space
<terlmann> think of space :-P
<terlmann> I think we need a mascot
<terlmann> I want to adopt a wolf
<terlmann> or a fish
<terlmann> really though , we would do best with a bird
<terlmann> a duck even
<TiaGo|SouZa> ahiuahahuhauahuahuahuahuaha
<TiaGo|SouZa> veryyyy, veryyy goodd!!!
* terlmann ducks the duck in his head
<TiaGo|SouZa> do u need sounds too?
<TiaGo|SouZa> hmm great
<Misosaki> Hi luisbg
<luisbg> hey Misosaki
<Misosaki> Having a good day?
<Misosaki> wb
<coz_> morning all
<nothlit> morning
<coz_> nothlit, hello
<lassegul> hi
<coz_> lassegul, hello
<Auckla> [02:55]  <Auckla> Well here I go to install Ubuntu to another drive.
<Auckla> [02:55]  <Auckla> I shall see you all hpefully in a few.
<terlmann> Today is monday , October the first. Today I back all my documents up :D. Sun is bright , and the moon was ORANGE.
<terlmann> 23meg ?
<terlmann> what would that stand for...
<terlmann> hmm...
<`23meg> terlmann, hi
<terlmann> Meagan ?
<nothlit> `23meg: any updates on ambassador doings? a thread started towards the meeting?
<terlmann> hmm ? `23meg is a diplomat with the ToTos ?
<`23meg> nothlit, I don't think there's any need to start a new thread
<`23meg> I did post about the meeting in advance
<terlmann> you guys do this on the forums and on the irc ? so the meeting is two-stage ?
<`23meg> IRC only
<terlmann> meeting is tomorrow right ?
<terlmann> I'll be there :-)
<nothlit> `23meg: oh ok, so just in the megathread?
<`23meg> the wallpaper thread, yes
<`23meg> to be honest, I'm feeling less and less motivated to do anything about the forums everyday
<terlmann> Wild mountain thunder echoes my quest, My body aches but I'll not rest. Quartz light to guide me, Till sunrise leads. My passion screams, my heart it bleeds.
<nothlit> `23meg: whats happened/changed?
<terlmann> second stanza of the great Desert Plains Symphony by Judas Priest , if you have not heard it.
<`23meg> nothlit, nothing regarding the artwork, but I just read this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=562529
* _MMA_ gives terlmann a pig ear to chew on. Go lay down. :)
* terlmann throws it at _MMA_'s head
<_MMA_> Bad puppy.
<terlmann> bad piggy
<nothlit> `23meg: still reading the thread, but it seems like similar sentiments echoed in the wallpaper one
<`23meg> nothlit, I think this is worse
<nothlit> `23meg: even ambassadors can't reach people who don't want to listen, just focus on those who are willing to
<kwwii> lol, `23meg ...that forum entry is sooo taken out of context
<lapo> hi
<`23meg> kwwii, so much that I feel reluctant to post a rebuttal
<nothlit> lapo: heyas
<`23meg> and there lies the problem
<kwwii> `23meg: now you know why I do not read the forum ;-)
<`23meg> when this kind of thing becomes commonplace, the best solution becomes to just ignore the whole thing, which is a shame
<terlmann> well
<`23meg> kwwii, I already knew :)
<terlmann> with that I guess it will be fiesty forever with me
<terlmann> I gotta have my bleeding edge and medubuntu :-)
<terlmann> but I am not the naive user
<terlmann> so I might through with it
<terlmann> assuming I can hack this
<lapo> kwwii: ah congrats again for the wallpaper, I'm still using it and it's nice
<nothlit> `23meg: the problem with abandoning it entirely is that the people who just want to know whats going on will only hear the complaining side then
<kwwii> lapo: thanks ;-) post that comment on the forum :p
<nothlit> but its difficult to inform and not feed the trolls
<lapo> kwwii: no thanks, I waste enough time on irc already :-)
<terlmann> any troll not of my species deserves to be shot :-)
<kwwii> hehe
* kwwii runs to the store...brb
<terlmann> so who here is using ubuntu-fresh for the GDM theme :-)
<`23meg> nothlit, people who want to know what's going on should look outside the forums as well
<`23meg> that's a problem on its own: most forum users' whole contact with the world of Ubuntu is the forums
<nothlit> `23meg: yeah, but the difficulty is theres not always a page for each issue there
<nothlit> just like this whole thing with the artwork selection
<nothlit> scattered around wiki pages and in the minds of the participants passed by word of mouth
<`23meg> well, mailing lists aren't any less structured than forums
<`23meg> and things like UWN, The Fridge and Planet Ubuntu make it easy to follow up on things
<lapo> nothlit': there's a nice tool to keep complaints nicelly organized, it's called bugzilla :-)
<lapo> well launchpad for ubuntu
<`23meg> but so few people on forums follow those
<nothlit> or, providing a clear mind/opinion from the 'peer pressure' of the maligning posts
<nothlit> lapo: yeah, but we're not talking about technical issues, discontent is a serious issue in a community, especially an open source one
<lapo> nothlit: you'll always have discontent in a oss community
<lapo> nothlit: the way to fix up stuff is filling bugs
<lapo> nothlit: naturally a "the new wallpaper is ugly" is not a good bug
<lapo> if the guy in charge for art looks at the forums, the mailing list, the bugs, irc channel he will do public relation but no work
<nothlit> of course, but i'm speaking of active forum participants in general
<lapo> people will always complain whatever you do, since artistic stuff is by definition a matter of taste
<nothlit> or irc participants, if there was a misunderstanding, you would probably do your best to clear it up within reason
<lapo> and everybody has his own different taste
<`23meg> nothlit, regarding the forums the problem is, there's so much to be cleared up with reason that it becomes exhausting, frustrating and disheartening
<lapo> nothlit: yes if I have time to do it, and it's not always true, or better quite the contrary
<`23meg> I have limited time and energy I can dedicate to Ubuntu, and with the forums I've been feeling it's going to waste
<lapo> the problem of furums is the same of mailing list, too much noise
<lapo> I mean, 3 good posts against 1000 bad ones
<lapo> for good I mean informative, to the point, selft explicative
<`23meg> lapo, forums are more noisier than mailing lists by orders of magnitude
<lapo> `23meg: yeah probably
<lapo> so it's even wrost
<lapo> you cannot pretend for the people who have to do the work to follow forums
<nothlit> `23meg: thats why i don't read the forums, only reason i registered at all was for a team election thing
<`23meg> nothlit, I'm heading the same direction
<nothlit> `23meg: but do a small amount each day and forget the rest if you're committed to this, even a little helps
<lapo> it should be clear that the forums are not a good way to communicate with the "developers"
<lapo> mailing list can be if the traffic is low enough to be read w/o wasting too much time
<lapo> an high traffic miling list has the same problems of the forums
* _MMA_ has increasingly retreated from the forums but it is where all users go. Most people are lazy and want a one-stop-shop. Thats the forums unfortunately.
* terlmann never goes anywhere but the wiki and irc
<nothlit> i would shy away from advocating for them to use the mailing list
<lapo> indeed
<nothlit> an issue tracker is best, more official, can be discarded, and less opportunity to spout
<lapo> nothlit: an issue tracker has the exact same problem
<lapo> too much stuff in, too much time needed to find good infos
<terlmann> only 30% of users use it
<lapo> I really think the best way too communicate is irc for discussions and eventually and issuetracker
<terlmann> yea
<terlmann> IRC FTW
<lapo> discuss on irc then open a bug
<lapo> if you're too lazy to do it, that means that you don't care enough about the issue so it's just for the sake of whining :-)
<_MMA_> terlmann: Source for the 30% please?
<terlmann> _MMA_ : you know where.
<terlmann> my &$$
<lapo> a community is driven by the guys who do the work and if the guys who do the work do public relations all the time no work will be done
<lapo> that's the main problem :-)
<terlmann> no pr needed. Just link all works to some voting threads
<lapo> terlmann: I don't really believe voting will work
<terlmann> yes it does
<lapo> naah
<terlmann> it does , trust me
<terlmann> you havn't tried it :-)
<lapo> design by community cannot work
<lapo> you'll end up with something boring all the time
<lapo> since you have to try to please anyone
<terlmann> use the wiki to create all entries and link them to the forums for voting
<nothlit> voting works, just by developers rather than community
<terlmann> vote after the creation phase
<nothlit> unless you think debian is a failed project
<lapo> there's should be one in charge with a clear vision of what do to
<terlmann> me
<terlmann> ME
<terlmann> MEEE
<lapo> nothlit: don't take debian as an example please :-)
<terlmann> well , kwwii , but I be in charge of him...
<lapo> nothlit: sould I need to pronounce the word sarge? :-)
<lapo> and anyway artwork is something different then technical stuff
<terlmann> ME ME ME
<terlmann> I can lead art into the 22 century
<terlmann> Only I know what good art looks like :-)
<lapo> eheh
<terlmann> because I have never seen any :-P
<lapo> in gnome there's an art director (which is on the channel actually) which has the last word
<terlmann> That should be me
<lapo> since if you end up with an endless discussion the work will stop, and it should never happen
<terlmann> gimme gimme
<terlmann> actually the discussion is after art is finished lapo, then we will have motivation
<terlmann> who wants gold prize ?
<terlmann> we should do this like worth1000
<lapo> terlmann: do about half of the stuff andreasn did and I'll sponsor you next time :-)
* _MMA_ laughs as terlmann desperately begs for attention. Cute little puppy.
<andreasn> hm?
<terlmann> whoa
<terlmann> your alive !
<lapo> andreasn: I was speaking about how design by community cannot work :-)
<terlmann> anyway , we should do this  , like I said :-P , like worth1000 does photoshopping contests.
<nothlit> lapo: andreasn has veto power? :o
<lapo> yes
<andreasn> hm, yes, apparently
<terlmann> who here visits worth1000 weekly ?
<terlmann> and how many of you think that if it was up to a contest the artists would do their best ?
<terlmann> a paid contest even
<terlmann> with gold receiving a personal chat with sabdfl
<terlmann> perhaps
<lapo> terlmann: you can do it for the wallpaper probably
<nothlit> thats pretty much what impression people got this time around anyways, from what i've been told
<lapo> but you need more then one guy to do all the stuff, so it won't work imho
<terlmann> lapo : and gtk , and gdm
<terlmann> yes it will . there will be more than one winner , that is all.
<lapo> terlmann: the point is that the same guy should do the wallpaper, the icons, the gtk theme, gdm and so on
<terlmann> no
<terlmann> NO
<lapo> plus bug the devs to fix this and that thing to make the design working
<terlmann> I do not think one person has that talent
<_MMA_> lol
<lapo> terlmann: that's why it cannot work
<terlmann> just because one guy does a masterpiece does not mean he can make Icons or such
<lapo> that's the point
<terlmann> lapo : hold a wallpaper , gdm , and gtk contestr
<nothlit> wow, the two art sites are back up
<terlmann> seperate the components
<lapo> all the arty stuff has to be coherent so all the authors have to follow the same direction
<terlmann> unite the gold and silver entries for a finalls
<lapo> terlmann: you'll have a mishmash then
<terlmann> yea right. as if they won't be using the SAME palette.
<lapo> the palette is not enough
<lapo> you can't define a style with the palette alone
<terlmann> it really is. Icons are all one component , sound is another , gtk is a third , and wallpaper/gdm is a fourth.
<lapo> you'll need a lot guideliness which will be more expensive to write or maintain then doing the real work
<terlmann> I can write those , thank you.
<lapo> good luck then :-)
<terlmann> I prefer some variety instead of repitions of the same old boring theme
<terlmann> why cannot the icons be orange while the background is brown ?
<terlmann> it's called intelligent contrast
<lapo> terlmann: let's speack about guideliness, to write them you'll need a lot of experience and if you find that something needs to be changed you'll have to change all the work done already
<nothlit> lapo: well, diana has done a good job of the wallpaper/gdm/bootsplash/gnome/kde splash/cd
<terlmann> well ,
<lapo> better to work directly on the stuff
<nothlit> lapo: with some help on the technical stuff of course
<terlmann> hold on lapo
<terlmann> here is my pretheme
<lapo> nothlit: yeah, she doesn't work at rh anymore tho :-)
<terlmann> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HardyIdeas
<lapo> terlmann: uhm...there's nothing in it
<terlmann> I can polish that up after the meeting , but nowit is making another page at /hardy (no ideas in adress name ) that people are already posting to
<terlmann> what ?
<terlmann> lapo ?
<_MMA_> Problem is there's 3 pages for the Hardy art ATM. That will all need to be combined and distilled.
<nothlit> lapo: btw, i hope you know i didn't delete your original page, just moved it into the category https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Ideas?action=recall&rev=1
<lapo> nothlit: my original page?
<nothlit> _MMA_: for the one page loading mess like gutsy?
<nothlit> err
<nothlit> sorry s/lapo/terlmann
<terlmann> lapo : this is my page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HardyIdeas
<terlmann> and it still exists
<nothlit> _MMA_: consolidation will happen after the meeting
<lapo> terlmann: but there's nothing in, just generic technical giudelines
<terlmann> yea
<terlmann> that is my point
<terlmann> I can write guidlines
<lapo> terlmann: that's has no use :-)
<terlmann> I can write them better after the meeting
<terlmann> I need more info on the direction we are going
<lapo> terlmann: those are not artistic guideliness
<terlmann> lots more
<_MMA_> nothlit: No. One base page with link to sections from it. kwwii like what I did with Ubuntu Studios bit I think it still needs a little tweaking. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming
<terlmann> right , as I do not have any artistic guidelines yet
<lapo> ubuntustudio stuff is better already, but too vague
<lapo> there are examples at least
<terlmann> ok . lapo , I will make these guidelines you are referring to after kwwii expresses the boss's intrests
<lapo> but it's still not a guideline which will garanty an uniform style
<terlmann> I can't go jumping the gun
<lapo> terlmann: I'm not saying I believe guideliness will work tho :-)
<terlmann> I can make it uniform , believe it
<terlmann> but like I said , some variety is good.
<lapo> terlmann: so you know how to make icons, gtkrcs, metacity themes, wallpapers, gdm themes?
<terlmann> yea
<_MMA_> lapo: For you its vague. If you dont understand the concept then the art you would produce would suffer. People in the scene get it instantly.
<terlmann> not that , lapo, I am going to give you that much time of mine
<terlmann> especially for gtkrcs
<lapo> _MMA_: it's surellt for my, I speak for myself :-)
<terlmann> or .desktop  files
<terlmann> _MMA_ you express my feelings exactly.
<lapo> _MMA_: the examples there are a lot different, I cannot say I'll do something that style
<_MMA_> lapo: I was speaking generally also. :) Not aimed at you.
<terlmann> concept MUST be understood , or else the theme will suffer , whether one person does it or one million.
<terlmann> got that ???
<lapo> terlmann: sure, but the concept is the tip of the iceberg
<terlmann> actually it is the tool that will shape the theme
<terlmann> some people never get it
<lapo> terlmann: If I were you I'll try to use the time to actually produce something working, then talk about it
<terlmann> and we get GREEN for wallpapers
<terlmann> lol
<terlmann> lapo : I am a manager. I don't do the art myself , because I want to let others do the work for me. :_P
<terlmann> besides
<terlmann> WE CANNOT START until the MEETING
<lapo> terlmann: why?
<terlmann> ha
<terlmann> ehehe
<terlmann> your lost , clueless ,
<terlmann> and a whole lot more
<terlmann> we are going in a DIRECTION for hardy
<terlmann> a different one than feisty
<lapo> terlmann: if you do something which is nice that can be the direction
<_MMA_> terlmann: lol. "I am a manager." really? You're terrible at speaking to people and its a key factor to management.
<terlmann> no , lapo , I cannot
<lapo> terlmann: so your reasons will be less taken seriously for sure :-)
<terlmann> Mark Shuttleworth has some ideas on how hardy should go, and we must obey/
<nothlit> managers often need to be the most capable and experienced people
<terlmann> yea, I am experienced
<nothlit> terlmann: cool, what sort of art background do you have?
<_MMA_> Im sorry. It doesnt show.
<terlmann> terrible at speaking ? I have kept you occupied for 30 minutes :-)
<lapo> demostrate it then :-)
<terlmann> sorry lapo , not until after the meeting
<terlmann> the meeting comes first
<_MMA_> terlmann: One day you'll get it puppy. ;)
<terlmann> _MMA_ : shove it. I have surpassed you already.
<_MMA_> lol
* terlmann listens to Grinder by Judas Priest
<_MMA_> Keep baiting. ;)
<nothlit> btw, the first meeting is just infrastructure basically, not artistic direction
<terlmann> _MMA_ : not baiting. Shove off.
<_MMA_> hahaha
<terlmann> this meeting is going to be artistic direction.
<terlmann> I have it on word from kwwii
<terlmann> don't you think LTS releases are going to be something important, like more than normal ?
<_MMA_> terlmann: Which way is the wind blowing and whats the humidity where you're at?
<terlmann> blowing to the north and humidity is null
<nothlit> LTS is for redefining/rebranding ubuntu
<terlmann> right
<terlmann> this is a lts release
<terlmann> right ?
<nothlit> terlmann: you have lots of experience? do you have any designs/paintings i can see? always interested to see people's work
<nothlit> yeah hardy will be LTS
<terlmann> nothlit : I got mine removed when I pissed off some gentoo nerds
<lapo> terlmann: experience, which oss project has your contributions?
<terlmann> story telling time over.
<nothlit> terlmann: you don't have any of it stored yourself?
<terlmann> naa
<nothlit> you can dcc away :D
<terlmann> I always delete it
<_MMA_> LOL
<terlmann> IT doesn't have any appeal to me to keep bad work
<lapo> terlmann: I only reading words, I'm not seing actuall work done :-)
<terlmann> I can ddc you someone elses work
<terlmann> lapo : I only writing words, and I think that counts as work :-)
<nothlit> lol, i can look up other peoples work myself fine :)
<terlmann> someone has to speak out , or no one will learn
<lapo> terlmann: that's the point, it doesn't :-)
<nothlit> speaking out doesn't make people learn, doing does
<terlmann> actually
<lapo> terlmann: tango guideliness are written by people how worked on icons for ages
<lapo> terlmann: how can I trust your guidelines?
<terlmann> what did god tell abraham and noah ?
<_MMA_> "Shove off."?
<lapo> ahahah
<_MMA_> :)
<terlmann> lapo : no matter how old a person is and how long they have done something , they could have been doing it WRONG all along
<terlmann> ever think of that ?
<lapo> uhm
<lapo> I don't think so in that specific case
<lapo> I did some bg and stuff and I know how to do it more or less, but I'm not confident enough to write a guideline about it, how can you do it?
<lapo> and how do you think people will listen to you?
<lapo> remember it's oss, you don't have a stuff of payed guys whos job is to follow your direction
<lapo> you need to gather people interest
<terlmann> lapo : confidence is everything . If I try my best , and know what I am doing , I can beat anyone. :)
<lapo> and you need to gather the *RIGHT* people interest
<terlmann> Virtue is like a rich stone,best plain set.
<terlmann> right
<lapo> it's not usefull to have a thousand minions on the forums which hails you w/o doing nothing :-)
<lapo> you need to fing the right people working with you for their own pleasure
<lapo> and believe me it's not as easy as it seems
<_MMA_> lapo: +1
<lapo> the people have to respect deadlines and need to finish the work they said they would have done
<terlmann> well
<lapo> that's the big issue
<nothlit> confidence is not everything, its often dangerous--its more important to make sure people work together
<lapo> making a comunity is black magic
<lapo> and you surelly need influent (for filed merits) involved
<lapo> field
<terlmann> I say we do it on the wiki and send everything to the forums for voting afterward , organized into themes. person A's background with B's gtk - theme A and so forth.
<lapo> terlmann: good luck, imho the result (if any) wil not be nice
<terlmann> well let's do this two ways
<lapo> terlmann: fedora artwork was good cause diana was leading
<terlmann> lapo : lets do this in two parts for hardy : you control the actual artwork for this theme and I test the idea of voting for themes on the forums.
<terlmann> can we shake now ?
<lapo> I don't want to control anything
<_MMA_> lapo: I personally plan to have a single discussion thread about Ubuntu Studio's art. We'll just distill things from there but as far as voting on every little detail, it wont happen. Will slow work down too much.
<lapo> I just work on stuff I'm interested in
<terlmann> not every detail , that will be silly
<lapo> _MMA_: good
<terlmann> but having a few themes and several choices is a good idea
<lapo> _MMA_: ubuntu studio is going in a nice direction anyway
<nothlit> theres no point in discussing voting or control now, its not going to mean anything
<lapo> there's no point in discussing most of the time, work count :-)
<terlmann> nothlit : if I get a thousand votes , will it mean anything then ?
<lapo> "I have this work done, do you like it?" "how can I improve it?"
<lapo> those are the contructive discussion imho
<nothlit> probably not anymore than a 33 page forum thread or a petition
<lapo> terlmann: I don't think so, work cound as I said not words :-)
<terlmann> nothlit : I mean , I put up two or three unified themes of artwork that have been completed and offer a no-post voting thread with downloads and voting enabled
<terlmann> and screenshots
<nothlit> yeah
<nothlit> voting doesn't mean anything, its not up to the community
<lapo> something which is so and so which kinda please that crowd will win
<terlmann> why not?
<terlmann> we will be using it
<nothlit> sabdfl will choose what he thinks is right for the product, same as any president of any other corporation
<terlmann> Stephen Vincent Benet - Litany for Dictatorships, 1935
<terlmann> - We thought, because we had power, we had wisdom.
<terlmann> I wanna talk to el powerful sometime
<nothlit> !sabdfl
<ubotu> Mark "sabdfl" Shuttleworth is our favourite cosmonaut, the founder of Canonical and the primary driver behind Ubuntu. You can find pieces of his thinking at http://www.markshuttleworth.com
<nothlit> bah
<nothlit> anyways, the d stands for dictator
<_MMA_> terlmann: PM him on IRC. :)
<terlmann> that guy wanted nakkid chicks once apon a time right ?
<lapo> terlmann: he usually answers even
<nothlit> i don't know who was in charge of that, but it was naked people
<terlmann> well the guy is nice and rich and like rich people are , somewhat clueless about things that they do not spend time on :-)
<lapo> terlmann: tell him
<terlmann> gotta get familiar with your peons
<_MMA_> lol
<_MMA_> terlmann: Like lapo said tell him. :)
<terlmann> I will
<terlmann> and if he does not answer..
* terlmann smirks
* terlmann thinks of fake steve
* terlmann thinks of fake mark
<nothlit> things they do not spend time on?
<terlmann> yea
<terlmann> how much time does he spend in here?
<nothlit> there you are incorrect, he spends much time on ubuntu, you can see him during community council etc
<terlmann> how many posts does he have on the forums , and how many emails does he send to the mailing list ?
<nothlit> or some council
<terlmann> hmm
<terlmann> councils ehe
<terlmann> I gotta get me a council-catching gun
<nothlit> 'sabdfl' you can check yourself if hes identified
<lapo> terlmann: the few time I had to speak with him he always anwsered by irc
<_MMA_> terlmann: I bet. You'll most like do like every other person likes to do. Talk crap without ever having said a word to him. I guarantee you if you actually have a conversation with him you'll be a fan-boy. _HE'S_ management. ;)
<terlmann> talk crap ?
<nothlit> upper ups, usually don't post on the forums etc even if they read them often
<terlmann> actually I can get very serious
<terlmann> right now I am playing with you :-P
<nothlit> but you can google through the mailing lists yourself and see
<lapo> he is surelly a good leader btw
<_MMA_> nothlit: Ive got him to post to the forum a couple of times. He does it if he know about something.
<terlmann> hmm
<terlmann> well I will see
<terlmann> if he is a good leader I may just like him
* _MMA_ happily awaits the day when terlmann stops playing with us all. ;)
<lapo> _MMA_: you're an ubuntustudioer right?
<_MMA_> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/12/1449201&from=rss and http://www.bsdcan.org/2007/schedule/attachments/12-Poisonous_People_Ben_CollinsSussman_and_Brian_Fitzpatrick.pdf
<_MMA_> lapo: Im its oft tired leader yes.
<lapo> eheh
<lapo> _MMA_: I'm playing with it latelly, nice work
<_MMA_> The Feisty version?
<lapo> _MMA_: current
<_MMA_> Gutsy daily?
<_MMA_> Oh...
<lapo> well packages on gutsy
<_MMA_> I see.
<_MMA_> Our big differences come in the disk installer.
<lapo> I'll install the release I think
<lapo> if you need some icons (tango style) feel free to ping me
<_MMA_> Cool. :)
<lapo> _MMA_: since you're here can you suggest me a nice (and cheap) ieee1394 recording equipment
<lapo> which work nicelly with ubuntustudio
<lapo> _MMA_: I already have some tango style icons for the applications I use, I'll send them upstream, but if you need them ping me
<_MMA_> lapo: Well 1394 Im really insure of since Ive never tested the stuff. Some guys in #ubuntustudio might be able to help. I know firewire support is one of the things we're working on but support for those devices are a crap-shoot.
<lapo> cool
<_MMA_> lapo: As for the icons I have no clue whats gonna happen with them in Hardy so who knows. :)
<lapo> _MMA_: if you'll go tango style I'll surelly help out
<terlmann> tangotango
<lapo> _MMA_: tango style != tango icon theme eh
<terlmann> only really
<lapo> terlmann: it's oss you're free to use whatever you want if you don't like it use something else
<_MMA_> lapo: I know whatcha mean. :) Our current set uses some Tango.
<andreasn> ertz stuff?
<andreasn> he did a nice job on that
<terlmann> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/OranSun
<terlmann> that's the icons i want
<terlmann> :-)
<terlmann> DAPPER look FTW
<lapo> tangerine was a mistake
<lapo> anyway
<terlmann> actually I really liked it
<terlmann> really liked it
<terlmann> really really
<terlmann> light orange goes so good with my picture of oranges
<lapo> thanks, but it wvolved in an icon theme which was not its scope
<lapo> tango style is the only way to have coherent desktop btw
<lapo> troy_s: around
<lapo> I have a folder design based on a troy folder which probably I should use in an experimental icon theme
<nothlit> lapo: that u2 folder is slick :)
<lapo> nothlit: it's troy stuff not mine
<lapo> I just touched it up a lbit
<andreasn> lapo: screenshot?
<nothlit> lapo: your redesign is slick then :P
<kwwii> terlmann: just to get things right, please do not say that for hardy we want any brown in the artwork...once again: we want black and orange
<lapo> andreasn: uhm not sure I have them around
<terlmann> o yea
<terlmann> right
<terlmann> forgot
<lapo> kwwii: black and orange? sounds cool
<lapo> kwwii: darkness!
<_MMA_> Halloween. :D
<lapo> andreasn: http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/troy/troys-folders.png
<lapo> _MMA_: sue them tho! :-)
<_MMA_> ;)
<kwwii> lapo: yeah, wait till people start bitching about that
<lapo> ahahah
<andreasn> lapo: neat
<terlmann> I'm gnna SUE SUE SUE !
<lapo> kwwii: they would bitch whatever you do don't worry :-)
<andreasn> lapo: the shape looks a bit tricky to make out what it is, but I mean, one will get used to it pretty quick
<andreasn> lapo: and it actually looks like a folder :)
<kwwii> lapo: no doubt
<andreasn> my favorite is the striped folders though! :)
<andreasn> kwwii: did you ever see the striped folders?
<lapo> andreasn: it's a tad complex but It *could* work
<lapo> andreasn: I care about your eyes, delete them immediatelly! :-)
<nothlit> i loved the rainbow folders lol
<lapo> guys that was actually a joke don't use it, it's clearly stated in the readme
<andreasn> the internet seems to have forgotten all about them....
<lapo> nice
<lapo> :-)
<kwwii> andreasn: nope, which ones?
<kwwii> striped tango folders?
<andreasn> kwwii: well, it was mostly a weird joke from lapo
* lapo is not responsible of any damage to user eyes, use at your own risk
<kwwii> ;-)
<lapo> http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/stripy-icon-theme-0.2.tar.gz
<andreasn> nah, can't find any trace of them....
<andreasn> ah! yay!
<kwwii> not sure why we are discussing icons....doesn't everyone know that we are going to use crystal icons now that kde is done with them? :p
<terlmann> no
<terlmann> no
<terlmann> no
* terlmann begins to cy
<terlmann> cry*
<kwwii> terlmann: the more you say no the more I want to actually do it :D
<lapo> eheh
<terlmann> don't you dare start using that crappy overworked set of smut
<lapo> naah crystal is a nice piece of artwork
<terlmann> and everyone uses it
<andreasn> kwwii: heh
<lapo> tango as usability points on it, but it's cool
<kwwii> I was everaldos boss and made quite a few of those icons
<andreasn> kwwii: nice work on the small sized oxygen folders btw
<kwwii> andreasn: dude, we probably spent more time on the folders than all the other icons combined ;-)
<lapo> as usual
<terlmann> why use what everyone uses ? kwwii : work has to be original. you just can't go using the same thing over and over. as for icons, what about an orange version of the icon theme snowish ?
<lapo> kwwii: and are surelly the more bitched about :-)
<kwwii> lapo: yeah, every time we changed them someone complained
<andreasn> kwwii: :)
<lapo> eheh
<kwwii> terlmann: it was just a joke, settle down
<lapo> I think andreasn can feel your pain
<nothlit> recolouring a theme is reuse too
<terlmann> not if noone use the original them
<lapo> look at andreasn running away screaming
<terlmann> avio is what I based ubuntu-fresh on] 
<lapo> andreasn: WALLPAPER! :-)
<andreasn> well, regarding folder icons Jakub probably have more experience at people being stupid about them :)
<kwwii> terlmann: we will be looking into replacing human with something different but it'll have to be something that uses the tango guidelines as the new gnome icons use them
<terlmann> good
<terlmann> snowish then
<terlmann> snowish svn
<terlmann> I mean svg
<terlmann> have you seen it ?
<terlmann> I could dcc you a copy
<nothlit> terlmann: btw, svg only icon themes is good, pixel versions are needed for all the small sizes
<kwwii> btw, if we are going to make new icons we will probably have an open contract for someone to work on them if anyone is interested
<nothlit> is not good*
<nothlit> kwwii: a bounty or contract?
<kwwii> lol, dcc to the server my irssi is running on
<andreasn> lapo: I can of said the background was going to be a placeholder sort of, but I wonder if I keep silent, noone will bring it up again
<kwwii> nothlit: a contract once we convince you-know-who
<_MMA_> terlmann: Seriously I think yo uneed to take it down a notch. You're being way too forceful/demanding.
* lapo points his finger at a random swede here
<lapo> andreasn: eheh
<terlmann> _MMA_ jea
* terlmann settles down
<lapo> kwwii: andreasn is interested in doing the icons
<lapo> adreasn: RIGHT?! :-)
<lapo> need to run,ciao
<kwwii> lapo: I was already thinking of him ,-)
<kwwii> ciao
<andreasn> lapo: why do you always throw stuff at me?
<nothlit> how is the kde wallpaper contest going btw
<andreasn> :)
<terlmann> kwwii : give me one moment
<kwwii> nothlit: it is basically done, we are waiting for responses from all the winning entries so that I can announce the winner (and light the flame)
<terlmann> one moment ,pls , to find you an artist for the icons
<andreasn> kwwii: are you going to the ubuntu-meeting-thing in boston btw?
<kwwii> andreasn: yepp, i have to - part of the job
<terlmann> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=32599
<kwwii> actually, I have to be there for two full weeks
<terlmann> please take a look at this
<andreasn> kwwii: I'm thinking of coming there, as I won't be going to the gnome boston summit
<terlmann> lucky kwwii
<terlmann> I would love to travel the country :-)
<kwwii> terlmann: that is very osx-ish
<kwwii> don't really like the folders either
<andreasn> seems the smaller sizes needs some hinting
<terlmann> yea , but we could beat him into changing it a little :-D
<terlmann> or a lot
<kwwii> andreasn: let me know if you need any help getting there or such...I can talk to my boss
<nothlit> a redesign would be wiser
<andreasn> kwwii: well, that would probably be nice
<terlmann> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/HumanElephant+orange+-+blue?content=67081
<terlmann> seen this yet kwwii ?
<terlmann> this is brown
<terlmann> vey vey brown : too brown. you want orange
* terlmann kills the artist with a rubber ducky
<nothlit> its far better to create new artwork with a clear purpose and direction than modifying exisiting artwork and kludge it to fit
<kwwii> a bit too muddy looking
<terlmann> yea
* terlmann kills the artist with a rubber ducky again
<nothlit> terlmann: if you're cruising gnome-look, look for potential rather than their existing work as assets
<terlmann> that's right
* terlmann converts nothlit into a potentialicity finder and uses his body for a skateboard 
<terlmann> http://www.taimila.com/?q=node/3
<terlmann> here
<terlmann> this guy
* terlmann arrests taimila for making a good-looking orange for ubuntu
<terlmann> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=41750
<terlmann> here he is on gnome-look
<kwwii> terlmann: dude, there is not going to be a decision on this for a long time...and in any case we would need to make mockups from all of this to convince those in charge to even do it to begin with
<terlmann> well
<terlmann> I am just gathering dust for you to sniff
<nothlit> invite/email them if you want to make the process known to them
<terlmann> sneeze all you want , its not bothering me
<_MMA_> terlmann: I think it would be better on the WIKI.
<_MMA_> Things get lost here.
<_MMA_> Send all your ideas to a wiki that comes later.
<_MMA_> (after tomorrows meeting Im guessing)
<terlmann> lost already mma. I am just scoping out artists for kwwii to empress ( as in grab and throw them on his pirate ship to work to death )
<kwwii>  gotta take the kid to bed, bbl
<_MMA_> If you agree its lost here than make notes to put on the wiki later.
<terlmann> make notes for these guys ?
<terlmann> ok
* terlmann makes a manual log
* terlmann is done 
<nothlit> theres no winning or losing here
<nothlit> either the entire community wins or loses, its not an individual thing
<terlmann> I am not in this for me, just to let ya know :-)
<terlmann> I am in this for all of us
<terlmann> Ubuntu represents something to me
<terlmann> I love it
<terlmann> does anyone know if there is a multiplayer gnometris/tetris game ?
<_MMA_> nothlit: I took it as he agreed his ideas are lost just throwing them in IRC.
<_MMA_> nothlit: Not anyone specifically lost.
<terlmann> _MMA_ : I keep logs. I will bring this back up 10000 times.
<terlmann> as for the wiki , I want feedback.
<terlmann> not everyone wants to edit a wiki page
<_MMA_> terlmann: Why/what will you "bring back up 10000 times"?
<terlmann> I will keep a log and remember my topics , and I will mention all of them in any conversations i have on this , and at the meeting.
<nothlit> as long as you stick to the agenda :D
<_MMA_> terlmann: But you just agreed that mentioning them here gets them lost. So whats the point of "bringing this back up 10000 times" or "in any conversation"?
<terlmann> just joking
<terlmann> stating my commitment
<_MMA_> Thats fine but man Im telling you spamming the channel isnt gonna get you what you want. And that mostly looks to be attention.
<terlmann> _MMA_ : trolling is an essential part of politics. Bush does it all the time.
<terlmann> :-)
* terlmann elbows _MMA_ a little
<_MMA_> I realize now you're joking but trust me, this wouldnt fly in the development channels.
<terlmann> got it
<terlmann>  -artwork off-topic tolerance = 150% of tolerance in -*
<terlmann> I got to talk to sabdfl a little
<terlmann> he seems ok
<nothlit> terlmann: oh you started a dcc? resend
<terlmann> ok
<nothlit> you're using port 0
<nothlit> Warning: Port sent with DCC request is a lowport (0, unknown) - this isn't normal. It is possible the address/port is faked (or maybe someone is just trying to bypass firewall)
<terlmann> could be faked
<terlmann> I use port 8887
<terlmann> * Connecting to chat.freenode.net (204.11.244.21) port 8001...
<terlmann> 8001
<terlmann> 192.168.0.105 : 37040
<terlmann> is where it is going out
<terlmann> I think this is at your end "U"
<nothlit> its the same client that was used last time you sent
<nothlit> been open this whole time, no changes
<terlmann> hmm
<terlmann> I changed a setting
<nothlit> send to nothlit`alpha
<nothlit> yeah, neither of them can connect, and one isn't run by me
<terlmann> hmm
<terlmann> must be xchat
* terlmann kicks his xchat in the head
<thorwil> hi!
* _MMA_ waves.
<nothlit> heyas
<_MMA_> thorwil here is largely responsible for the look of Ardour2. ;)
<thorwil> heh
<thorwil> just icons and sliders. the colour theme ain't my job :)
<lassegul> Hi people.
<lassegul> Anyone got any clue on how many will show up for the meeting tomorrow?
<_MMA_> I will.
<lassegul> _MMA_: :) good, you have a clear overview then.
<_MMA_> I think. :)
<thorwil> ooh, 17:00 utc is 19:00 in gmt+2 (germany)?
<lassegul> yep.
<thorwil> maybe i'll come in late. i'd likely be more of a lurker, anyway :)
<dmccall> I will :)
<troy_s> lots of chatter
<troy_s> lapo did some nice work on that folder icon.
<lassegul> troy_s: that folder was beautiful
<troy_s> except that 48 and less size debacle
<lassegul> troy_s: kinda looked like a flower
<troy_s> we should probably work harder on getting the bloody smaller resolutions sizes out of block hell.
<troy_s> lassegul: Yeah lapo did a rework on some u2 bits I did.
<troy_s> lassegul: He did an impressive job on them.
<lassegul> kwwii: u2 bits?
<lassegul> ah sorry, i mean troy_s
<troy_s> lassegul: hit tr then tab you get me.
<troy_s> :)
<lassegul> troy_s: and i understood waht u2 was
<lassegul> troy_s: :-)
<troy_s> lassegul: Unfortunately since the deluge of requests, u2 has backseated.
<troy_s> lassegul: Unfortunate.
<lassegul> troy_s: i wanted to have a look at it again, but i couldnt find it. link?
<lassegul> troy_s: forget it. i found it :P
<troy_s> lassegul: There should be a full bzr repo on launchpad.
<troy_s> lassegul: If you have anything you think works, let me know.  I'll happily try to integrate it.
<nothlit> troy_s: do you actually use a tablet for inkscape work? i end up just using an optical mouse
<troy_s> nothlit: I can't really do much work without something to start with from my hand.  So yes, tablet.
<nysosym> work with vektors in much easier with a mouse i think
<lassegul> troy_s: yeah actually, i loaned a tablet, but i couldnt get used to it.
<troy_s> nothlit: Although in the case of clean splines, I actually find it easier to detail it on paper via traditional means and ink it in inkscape.
<troy_s> nothlit: Rather like oldschool comic artistry.
<troy_s> nysosym: I would probably disagree.
<troy_s> nothlit: The most useful feature of Inkscape is the one that I still haven't seen reported much -- the calligraphy tool -- which I use more or less as an all around painting tool.
<troy_s> nothlit: You can rapidly build up to thousands of sketch shapes -- easily modded into singulars via ctrl shft +
<nothlit> yeah, its pretty neat, some of it has been moved to the tweak tool though
<troy_s> nothlit: It simply feels so much like the evolution of digital artwork that it is difficult to go back to any raster tools.
<nothlit> lol
<troy_s> nothlit: Having those shapes as 'entities' and the strokes all individual is priceless.
* nothlit still likes the idea of "old school" style concept art in painter
<troy_s> nothlit: That's just it... if you change the blend modes you can get that oil based feel.
<nothlit> its slower that with enough layers, especially with complex images that its easier to just repaint the whole thing/area than edit nodes
<troy_s> nothlit: If you stay away from blurs while you do your basics, it is very responsive.
<troy_s> nothlit: The real trick is to utilize a workflow as you build upwards.
<nothlit> and i hate the inorganic aspect of it, as great as it is for design
<troy_s> nothlit: For example (I think I told lassegul this little trick) to export a layer once you are close and import it as a snapshot.
<nothlit> yeah he relayed it
<troy_s> nothlit: That is why the calligraphy tool with tremor / wiggle is amazing.
<lassegul> troy_s: you did. and its still a pain in the ass to get used to but its necessary
<nothlit> troy_s: have you updated your svn lately?
<nothlit> troy_s: all that functionality has been moved into the tweak tool, plus more
<troy_s> nothlit: You can finesse it right into your desired zone and you do away with all the starchy spliney feel.
<troy_s> nothlit: I just built it.  Lol.  I suppose I should sudo make install.  I generally do a build once every week or so.  More if instability happens and I need a revert.
* nothlit is too OCPD to introduce additional nodes until absolutely necessary/the last minute
<kwwii> anyone here speak french well?
<troy_s> kwwii: Someone does extremely well... can't remember.
<troy_s> kwwii: What's the need for french?
<nothlit> lol
<troy_s> iydmma
<nothlit> us two canadians can't speak enough french :P
<kwwii> I received an email from a french guy about artwork stuff and I have no idea what he is talking about
<troy_s> kwwii: Uh babelfish?
<lassegul> kwwii: i know a little french
<kwwii> first he asked if we could do the meeting in french :p
<troy_s> kwwii: Yet more of the frontier of global communication woes.
<kwwii> and now he sent me an email with a link to a french forum with some ideas
<lassegul> kwwii: you must learn french then translate on the fly.
<troy_s> kwwii: As is timezone hell.
<kwwii> no doubt
<troy_s> kwwii: One of the reasons that IRC simply sucks in the modern world -- those nasty time zone differences.
<nothlit> irc needs more sophisticated offline messaging
<troy_s> nothlit: Or just a mailing list.  lol.
<nothlit> either that or we all move to jabber
<nothlit> troy_s: yeah but thats less spontaneous/freeflow
<troy_s> nothlit: It's no wonder that some of foss ends up being a big clump of a given country sometimes.
<kwwii> we have a wiki and a mailing list....yet people want a forum and a gallery, and and and
<kwwii> I think that if we thin things out too much it will only get worse
<troy_s> kwwii: Too much.  I don't think I could stress that enough.
<lassegul> kwwii: i agree, but i think we should prioritize the gallery
<troy_s> kwwii: Especially, as I tried to be painfully clear earlier -- for people who work full time with careers in the industry etc.
<nothlit> the wiki is just horrible lol, GutsyIdeas is proof of the mess
<lassegul> nothlit: +1
* _MMA_ wont rest till he gets pumpkins on the default Ubuntu wallpaper.
<troy_s> nothlit: Is it the wiki or the people contributing?
<nothlit> troy_s: both, but the medium is not ideal for this sort of thing
<troy_s> nothlit: Seems logical to me to NOT submit 10000000 res images... apparently I am near alone on that.  Imagemagick does the trick well.
<nothlit> nah, i've thumbnailed a few images on the wiki, and mma as well
<troy_s> nothlit: Once again, I would probably suggest that it would take at least three cycles to get people into a workflow.  It will not happen overnight, and it takes patience.
<nothlit> _MMA_: as kwwii stated, hardy will come out during the opposite time of year of halloween :P
<lassegul> nothlit: we should find out how to reduce our arenas. or at least keep the important stuff on to just a couple of them.
<_MMA_> nothlit: Yeah, I know. Total shame. :(
<lassegul> troy_s: how can one use time to get used to putting artwork in to a gallery in stead of a wiki page?
<troy_s> lassegul: More or less done.  The biggest gap is the fact that _someone_ needs to check on the forums.  Of course, this is rather irrelevant if there really isn't anything to discuss.  lol.
<nothlit> well, the best thing is if we could move everything to some sort of project management system for artwork i suppose
<nothlit> but i doubt thats going to happen
<troy_s> lassegul: The point you are missing is that the wiki is tied to launchpad.  It has a great upside to that if someone ever cared to utilize it.
<troy_s> lassegul: Wiki pages attached to Launchpad specs automatically inform all team members of changes progress etc.
<troy_s> nothlit: No reason.
<lassegul> troy_s: but so few does. then what does it matter.
<_MMA_> nothlit: Great management of the Ubuntu art can happen with the tools we now have. Just needs someone to take things by the horns. ;)
<troy_s> lassegul: I think that's the point.  :)
<troy_s> _MMA_: There isn't anything to manage.  Hard to grab horns on a dog.
<lassegul> troy_s: i know about the saying "dont fix it if it isnt broken" but as you say yourself, per se its a dog, not a bull. we must make it a bull.
<_MMA_> troy_s: You just needed to comment on something didnt you? :)
<nothlit> troy_s: you guys want everything to be on <one> system
<troy_s> lassegul: I am all for expanding complexity when needed.  My question is -- is it needed?
<nothlit> imo, it reduces complexity
<troy_s> lassegul: When all of this fever started up it was over nothing that anyone in the community really had any control over.
<lassegul> troy_s: lets avoid complexity
<_MMA_> nothlit: I think between bzr, the ML, WIKI and some forum feedback things will work fine. :)
<nothlit> you can read the email if you want, don't want to rehash things
<troy_s> lassegul: And that, in the end, is exactly what I am getting at.  Hell... to a certain extent, it is purely a communication gap -- "Hey guys -- this is going to be the default wallpaper."
<_MMA_> Its just that that is a job in and of itself.
<lassegul> troy_s: the gallery is the communication!
<lassegul> troy_s: or at least part of it.
<lassegul> troy_s: so is the wiki.
<troy_s> lassegul: Wrong.  Not if people are looking in the forums.  Again it is all about audience.  The forums are the FIRST touchpoint of an average Ubuntu user.
<troy_s> lassegul: Further down the list might be a wiki, then mailing list, then last probably IRC.
<lassegul> troy_s: where would a gallery land?
<troy_s> lassegul: Web based stuffs provide the agency for an _average_ user.
<troy_s> lassegul: "Oh yeah guys, we also have a gallery."
<kwwii> the biggest problem until now have proven to be: 1) not enough information beforehand and 2) not enough information during the final stages ...none of that has anything to do with the media in which the information is given
<nothlit> lassegul: between forums and wiki, hopefully
<lassegul> troy_s: i would think it would land right after the forums.
<nothlit> troy_s: have you read my email?
<troy_s> +1 to kwwi.
<troy_s> kwwii even.
<troy_s> lassegul: Really?
<lassegul> troy_s: yeah.
<troy_s> lassegul: I would take some side betting on that.
<lassegul> :)
<troy_s> It is simply a point place.
<troy_s> Really, this could just as easily been solved in an Ubuntu weekly news posting by kwwii.
<lassegul> troy_s: but we probably wont do it, so i save my money :)
<troy_s> In fact, that might make it the most accessible place.  Further still... digg gets around to it when people care.  lol.
<troy_s> nothlit: WHERE DID MY TREMOR GO?!?!
<nothlit> troy_s:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-September/004112.html
<kwwii> I do agree that we need some help with keeping people up to date on things...using launchpad correctly, updating the wiki and sending more mails to the list as well as having meetings and having a few people to handle the forum side of things would help
<nothlit> tremor? huh?
<lassegul> troy_s: 10% reads those news postings. 5% visits the wiki. kwwii the information was out there, it wasnt broadcasted good enough.
<troy_s> nothlit: inkscape.
<troy_s> nothlit: That posting again begs the question "WHY"
<nothlit> troy_s: into the tweak tool, the one that looks like a wave
<troy_s> nothlit: grr.
<nothlit> shift+f2, roughen parts of paths
<troy_s> nothlit: NOOOO
<troy_s> nothlit: WTF.
<kwwii> lassegul: there is a lot of information that needs to be given in advance: what is our target audience, what is the palette, which stylistic direction do we want to go, etc.
<troy_s> nothlit: How the hell are you supposed to make strokes with tremor... oh lord.
<lassegul> kwwii: I agree...
<kwwii> some of that I was afraid to define for fear of making a mistake and some of it I purposely held back to increase peoples creativity (wrongly)
<troy_s> its still there.
<troy_s> phew.
<kwwii> anyway...time for bed. tomorrow will be a long day I thikn
<kwwii> s/thikn/think
<_MMA_> ;)
<lassegul> kwwii: i may be wrong on this one. My gut tells me that 99% of deviantart user wont be able to use launchpad.
<lassegul> 50% wont be able to use wiki pages.
<kwwii> someone is supposed to start a forum thread now in which they disagree with my decision that tomorrow will be long day
<troy_s> Last time I checked sabdfl has complained on more than one occasion that his view of colour is that anything greater than monochromatic "confuses the palette" -- his words.
<kwwii> lassegul: launchapd will be the work of myself and a few others who understand the process
<kwwii> the wiki will be usefull and need to be understood
<kwwii> but if I can learn to use a wiki anyone can
<lassegul> kwwii: ?
<troy_s> lassegul: Launchpad is deadly easy.  Produce your work.  bzr push.  wow.
<kwwii> heck, you can edit a page and then just cut and paste things on a wiki
<troy_s> that said, where is sabdfl in all of this?
<troy_s> lassegul: Do you really want anyone doing any work who can't edit a wiki page?
<nothlit> troy_s: a.u.c gets 30,000 visits per week now already--people visit the site already, its a good place for people to get to what they really want to see, images, and still allows for comments
<kwwii> I have talked to him a lot about this and he stands behind me to give support and direction which I will then broadcast
<lassegul> troy_s: Maybe not.
<nothlit> troy_s: it makes more sense and would be easier to use than the wiki for concept art and displaying progress
<kwwii> because we are going in a new direction I have much more chance to change things and therefor less fear of making a mistake by not "doing what he wants"
<troy_s> kwwii: Yes, but what about the tougher questions -- like implementing a palette etc.
<lassegul> THen we have to organize the wiki much better than it is organized today.
<troy_s> kwwii: He seems to nod his head early, and shake it later.
<kwwii> troy_s: I will take care of that (already started really)
<troy_s> (and by palette I don't mean bloody brown and black obviously.)
<kwwii> troy_s: luckily I went through creating an entire set of artwork for the mobile stuff which he liked (that took a long time) so I know where I stand on things this time around
<nothlit> troy_s: not just people who will take as active an interest, or community participants at all can take a look
<troy_s> nothlit: Arguably that isn't really healthy either.  Have a look at gnome-look's top rated 'look' -- its a knockoff.
<lassegul> nothlit: yeah, this will keep the angry mob back somewhat.
<lassegul> troy_s: we arent going for user voting anyways.
<nothlit> troy_s: but the forum users are going to demand a way to give feedback, comments on an image won't turn into a revolt like a thread, easy to maintain and scan as well
<troy_s> weird... I can't get my tablet up now.
<nothlit> gutsy on a whole, sounds broken, and is for me atm
<troy_s> nothlit: Make no mistake -- I am 100% for transparency and always have been as everything I have said is hopefully a testament to.
<troy_s> kwwii: Where is the set?
<nothlit> http://sinecera.de/apps_0.3.png
<troy_s> nothlit: That isn't the set.  I would be interested in seeing the set.
<kwwii> nothlit: that is one mockup, but that shows you the idea
<kwwii> troy_s: it is still be produced
<troy_s> ahh.
<kwwii> but the ideas behind the art are set
<kwwii> we have had lots of technical difficulties
<troy_s> weird... ok /dev/input/wacom is properly sym'd to /dev/input/event4 but nothing works.
<troy_s> i wonder if i should be pulling directly from event4 for a test... grr.
<lassegul> kwwii: last thing: are you serious or joking about crystal icons in ubuntu?
<nothlit> lassegul: joking looool
<lassegul> whooow.
<lassegul> :)
<lassegul> not that they arent nice and all :)
<lassegul> well im going to give cheerios another shot. I had a bad experience with them last night. The milk was old, so i was gonna throw it out, but to liquid for the trash can, to solid for the sink, i flushed it down the toilet. But those damn cheerios wont sink!
<lassegul> bye.
<troy_s> Whoa.  Don't eat any more green smarties.
<troy_s> well that blows.
<troy_s> does anyone here have a tablet working under gutsy?
<_MMA_> Mine does.
<troy_s> _MMA_: How?  Did you do anything?
<_MMA_> I have the normal stuff done. wacom-tools installed and a tweaked xorg.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Apparently Gutsy properly sets wacom.
<troy_s> _MMA_: But for the life of me, I can't get mine to do pressure sensitivity now.
<troy_s> _MMA_: It works, and after the standard cat / dev/input etc I know I have the right one.
<_MMA_> Ill pastebin my wacom bits of my xorg.
<troy_s> _MMA_: But both gimp and ink are giving me 'no extended input devices found'
<_MMA_> odd..
<troy_s> very
<_MMA_> troy_s: Here's all I have in my xorg for wacom: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/39307
<troy_s> hrm... did you make that?
<troy_s> and if so... when has 'usb ON' been in the xorg?
<troy_s> crossing fingers -- _MMA_ you rock.
<troy_s> grr... still nothing.
<troy_s> how ... weird.
<_MMA_> To answer your last question, its the one Ive been using since Dapper I think. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=25151
<troy_s> how bloody weird.
<troy_s> it's there... nothing different than the past four versions of ubuntu i have done.
<troy_s> but it refuses to come up under extended input devices.
<_MMA_> hmm.... Inkscape and GIMP both work here.
<troy_s> well WTF
<_MMA_> I dont think it matters that Im on the -rt kernel.
<troy_s> shouldn't no.
<_MMA_> Ill check -generic.
<troy_s> i wonder if the usb mouse is confusing it.
<_MMA_> troy_s: I run a USB mouse here. Can you test to make sure your pad is showing as an event?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yeah it is working -- I can control the cursor with it and get the output on the cat /dev/input/event4
<_MMA_> But no pressure?
<_MMA_> Oh I see. Its acting like a mouse.
<troy_s> _MMA_: It apparently works, but isn't coming up under extended input devices for either G or I.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Does "sudo wacdump /dev/input/wacom" output anything promising?
<troy_s> well lets see
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> works fine
<troy_s> pressure buttons everything
<_MMA_> Hmm...
<troy_s> how strange
<_MMA_> Looks like its recognized by the system just not the apps.
<_MMA_> /me digs a bit.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Exactly.  And it appears in normal working order.
<troy_s> (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Configured Mouse" (type: MOUSE)
<troy_s> (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Generic Keyboard" (type: KEYBOARD)
<troy_s> Doesn't seem to want to add anything else.
<_MMA_> This just started right? And what model is it?
<troy_s> _MMA_: This one is the shitty Graphire.
* _MMA_ loves his Graphire2. :)
<_MMA_> Which one though?
<troy_s> _MMA_: They work great for quick and dirty bits, but my intu is just a better unit.
<troy_s> Erm methinks this is a 2.
<_MMA_> Odd. Thats should be golden then.
<troy_s> Might be a 1.
<troy_s> Honestly can't remember.
<_MMA_> I hope to get a intuos. :)
<_MMA_> Well wacdump should tell you the model.
<_MMA_> Oh I can dream... http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Intuos3-12X19-Tablet-PTZ1231W/dp/B000E6IJ6C
<troy_s> Bugger that... go straight to Cintiq
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> AHhh... might have it... sendcoreevents were commented out.
<troy_s> let's see..
<troy_s> brb
<troy_s> woop.
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> Is that good?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Remind me that when we finally meet each other in real life to buy you a beer.
<_MMA_> ;)
<_MMA_> If I drank. :)
<troy_s> Yikes.  Another one.
<troy_s> Ditto.
<troy_s> :(
<troy_s> Ok lattee.
<troy_s> latte even.
<_MMA_> Just make me a pallet for Hardy and we're even. ;)
<_MMA_> *palette
<troy_s> _MMA_: Lol.  Defer to higher brains.  Use a Krause to avoid bikesheds.
* kwwii can't sleep
* _MMA_ brain is mush ATM. I hope to get it done this week.
<kwwii> does a cintiq work with linux?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Then when the inevitable 'XXX is YYY', you can simply reply "Well this is designed by the guy who has developed high level ad campaigns for MS, Apple, and a few other small companies.  Please forwards your comments to him."
<troy_s> kwwii: I would think so.
<troy_s> kwwii: Can neither confirm nor deny, but I would expect the same tech under the hood.
<kwwii> hrm, maybe I should buy one...tried one out for a week on windows - never tried it on linux
<troy_s> kwwii: I could ask my buddy at Technicolour.
<_MMA_> kwwii: http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/index.php/main
<kwwii> troy_s: if you think about, ask him - I would be interested to know
<troy_s> Only 2700 bucks.
<kwwii> w00t
<troy_s> not horribly useful unless you do inking
<_MMA_>  Graphire 1, 2, 3 & 4, Cintiq & CintiqPartner, Intuos 1, 2, & 3, Volito 1 & 2, PenPartner 1 & 2, PL & DTF, Bamboo
<troy_s> at which point it is a useful tool.
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, but I can take it off my taxes
<kwwii> I've been working on the design of my friends rally car and motorcycle - that would be really cool to have long term
<_MMA_> troy_s: Have any links re: creating palettes?
<troy_s> Here is your answer from http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/
<troy_s> Supported USB Devices
<kwwii> I have an intuos2 and 3 but it is so much nicer working directly on the monitor
<troy_s> Cintiq & CintiqPartner
<_MMA_> troy_s: Already posted. ^^^
<kwwii> yeah, just saw that
<troy_s> _MMA_: Fecker.
<troy_s> _MMA_: DIe.
<_MMA_> :P
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> napping
* kwwii tries to go back to sleep
<troy_s> _MMA_: Depends on how you want to start.  If you start out with basic colour theory, the defacto best tool online thus far is colorscheme2
<_MMA_> troy_s: Joe's gotta get the Trem server back up so I can chomp your head. ;)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Trem no work here cuz the nasty nvidia drivers suck for Gutsy.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Which blows.
<_MMA_> ? Odd. They rock here for my 7950GT and Dell 2405.
<_MMA_> Which card do yo uhave?
<_MMA_> *you have?
<troy_s> 7300 with 256 (its older)
<troy_s> they are completely flakey as in freezups and the rest of it.
<troy_s> or it is a gutsy thing (of which no one seems to care yet on launchpad)
<_MMA_> Oh that should be totally fine. nvidia-glx-new or nvidia-glx?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Well from what I have seen, it appears to be nvidia-glx-new -- I can't get nvidia-glx to take
<_MMA_> How odd.
* _MMA_ has to tinker more with Agave and colorscheme2.
<troy_s> _MMA_: As much as I would like to run with gl accel.
<troy_s> agave is weak compared to colorscheme
<troy_s> to quote the best adage I have ever heard regarding colour theory...
<_MMA_> Oh come on... You gotta be quicker than that.
<_MMA_> Taking forever to Google eh? ;)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Looking for the real quote you bugger.
<troy_s> _MMA_: It's very relevant.
<_MMA_> :D
<troy_s> _MMA_: Most people have zero clue regarding colour palettes.  They tend to start with a colour and give some sort of close hue variant and call it a 'palette'.
<troy_s> Like Orange/Yellow and black or white... _NOT_ a palette.
<troy_s> _MMA_: A palette is more or less sculpted out of the basics -- Analogous, Analogous with Variation, Split compliment, Triad, or Quad.
<troy_s> Monochrome I suppose is a 'palette', but certainly not ideal.
<troy_s> (although all colours are ultimately wound into that complicated mess of contemporary design meets theory etc.)
<_MMA_> Well Ill get something together with colorscheme2 and you give me a "looks good" or beat me about the head with some art snobbery. ;)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Naw.  It comes down to so many factors.
<troy_s> _MMA_: There was even a good push of dissonant not too long ago.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Value is probably the most important factor to watch for initially.  Then test them against each other.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Remember though, the human eye colour corrects which is why, again, it is important to have a non monochromatic schema.  If the eye sits in a spread of monochrome, it will tune it out.
<_MMA_> Oh jesus man. I feel like you're saying "The only guidelines are there are not guidelines". :)
<troy_s> _MMA_: That's what I am saying more or less.  That's the nature of art.  Color Scheme 2 will give you pure math though.
* _MMA_ packs up his toys and goes home.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Start with your base, plug it in, and work your way around to a set that feels good for you and what you are hoping to deliver.
<troy_s> :)
<troy_s> _MMA_: DIY look might be good to stay bold for example -- maybe compliments?
* _MMA_ fires up Firefox.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Make sense?  Analogous might not deliver that start contrasting feel... but it is tough to speculate.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Colour just doesn't live alone.  Context.
<nysosym> gn8
<_MMA_> troy_s: 009BF9 what about "Tetrad"?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yep.  Great contrast there.
<troy_s> _MMA_: You can also walk your way around if you are trying to deliver say, 12 or so colours... meaning grab onto an angle that you like, and choose one of the colours as your 'basic secondary' and flesh it out as your new 'primary'.  Make sense?
<_MMA_> I like the Green that comes from "max" "Angle/Distance"
<_MMA_> CEF900
<_MMA_> troy_s: Ill bbiab. (wifes home)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-02
<lapo> hi
<kwwii> hi lapo
<lapo> ciao kwwii
<lapo> the updated bg is nicer, bravo
<lapo> there's a bit more banding but it's less grainy
<kwwii> thanks...it is a lot lighter, seemed like a good trade off to me
<lassegul> kwwii: you have a link?
<lassegul> good morning btw.
<kwwii> lassegul: it should be in an update to the package if you are running gutsy
<lassegul> kwwii: im at work.
<kwwii> lassegul: hrm, check it when you get home :-)
<kwwii> lassegul: it is the one I showed a few days ago
<lassegul> ok.
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/warty-final-ubuntu.png
<lassegul> very good.
<lassegul> thx
<kwwii> np
<andreasn> kwwii: the meeting-thing was at 17:00 today, right?
<andreasn> was it in here or in #ubuntu-meeting(?)?
<nothlit> ubuntu-meeting
<nothlit> its not for another 6 hours
<kwwii> andreasn: yepp
<kwwii> a little more than 5.5 hours from now
<andreasn> 17:00 regular german/swedish time, or uk time?
<kwwii> 17:00 UTC
<kwwii> so 18:00 in the UK, 19:00 CET
<nothlit> andreasn: the wiki link has the time conversions by country for europe
<andreasn> nothlit: url?
<nothlit> -!- Topic for #Ubuntu-Artwork: Meeting Tuesday Oct 2nd in #ubuntu-meeting (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Meetings has a list of topics)
<andreasn> heh, sorry :)
<nothlit> lol, no i was just too lazy to extract the url specific part :P
<kwwii> the best way to hide information is to put it in a wiki :p
<lassegul> kwwii: when people go here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork they dont see the subpages?
<kwwii> lassegul: they are too lazy to scroll down to the bottom I guess
<kwwii> I want ot redo that page so that things are much clearer
<kwwii> with more direct links, etc
<lassegul> kwwii: when was site navigation placed at the bottom. People arent used to that.
<kwwii> lassegul: about two years ago
<nothlit> lassegul: i put a link to the hardy page on the artwork page
<nothlit> lassegul: and the hardy page has a bolded blurb about the meeting
<nothlit> lassegul: the site navigation thing is an automatic wiki feature for subpages
<lassegul> nothlit kwwii sorry, i understood this, i was just saying, its very seldom you come across sites that has site navigation at the bottom.
<kwwii> lassegul: perhaps we should move it to the top
<lassegul> kwwii: that sounds smart.
<kwwii> lassegul: one of the things i would like to do at UDS is to straighten out the entire /Artwork wiki format and fill it with usefull information
<lassegul> kwwii: absolutely
<trunx> heyho
<nothlit> hihi
<trunx> im the "new one" ... so im here for the first time :)
<terlmann> meeting in three hours :-)
<troy_s> <lassegul> kwwii: when people go here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork they dont see the subpages?
<troy_s> <kwwii> lassegul: they are too lazy to scroll down to the bottom I guess
<troy_s> You can move that autoscript subpage accumulator to the top or whatever.
<lassegul> troy_s: good. ill look into that.
<lassegul> ok ill leave now. see you guys later at the meeting.
<newz2000> when is the meeting, a little under 1 hour 45 min from now?
<terlmann> yea
<terlmann> UTC 1700
<newz2000> thanks
<bersace> Soo, meetings in 15 minutes ?
<nothlit> yeah
<bersace> :)
<kwwii> anyone who isn't there yet...the meeting is starting in 5min in #ubuntu-meeting
* nothlit would notice the channel, but is afraid of Se.veas' automated ban stick
* bersace was in #ubuntu-meetings
<bersace> :x
<Misosaki> lols
<lassegul> The only time I really need it, my internet goes down.
<bersace> hh :)
<lassegul> it never does. and im  a support guy employed by my ISP.
<lapo> ok, so what we ended up with? :-
<lapo> )
<troy_s> LOL
<_MMA_> damianvila: You need to identify your nick or we cant talk in PMs. :)
<Misosaki> When will the next meeting be?
<lassegul> UDS?
<damianvila> _MMA_ For some strange reason, it does not recognize my password :-P
<damianvila> I don't know how to recover it :-P
<lassegul> damianvila: http://freenode.net ?
<troy_s> damianvila: Reset it with Nickserv methinks.
<damianvila> I'll try... (I'm pretty lame with IRC, as you can see)
<nothlit> _MMA_: /quote NICKSERV SET UNFILTERED ON
<lassegul> brb
<terlmann> I stayed away during the meeting
<terlmann> wanted to see how it went
<terlmann> naturally I think you all did it wrong :=D
<terlmann> but I degress
<Misosaki> When will the gallery system be up?
<troy_s> Misosaki: It is funny, every time everyone starts talking about u-art, it turns to this other website -- art.ubuntu.com.
<nothlit> no wonder why the fedora wiki is clean, they all sign a contributor agreement with a gpg key
<troy_s> Misosaki: I said long ago that it is a PITA to maintain a site and a good number of people (including sabdfl) insisted it happen.
<troy_s> Misosaki: It sat there for god knows how long untouched.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Much like the site prior to it.
<nothlit> Write this all up in a page right here on the wiki, and add it to the "List of Submissions" section below. Please do not ask a friend to upload it for you - you must sign the Fedora CLA before we can accept your artwork for potential inclusion in Fedora.
<terlmann> ok
<Misosaki> troy_s: What other options are there?
<terlmann> I am here
<terlmann> time for the private after the meeting meeting
<terlmann> nothlit
<troy_s> Misosaki: One person use imagemagick to moderate the incoming submissions and organize them.
<terlmann> we need to work together on documentation
<newz2000> troy_s: one problem with art.ubuntu.com is that it has been horribly difficult to contribute
<troy_s> Misosaki: A singular vision for a wiki page goes a long way -- as is exemplified by that Fedora page.  That said, the moderating wouldn't probably stop there.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Personally, kwwii should probably be the one moderating -- as a good 98% of the submissions on the Gutsy hodge podge would probably not be there.
<troy_s> Misosaki: He is the one hired by Canonical and trusted with that capacity.
<troy_s> newz2000: Didn't see you here.  Good to see you old friend.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Yes. Only thing is, he's but one person, and he has other commitments too.
<newz2000> and you troy!
<terlmann> I will help him
<terlmann> :-D
<terlmann> troy_s : all he needs is me whispering in his ear
<troy_s> newz2000: The problem with any site is that to stay healthy it needs monitoring etc.  I really feel that the FOSS community has many other options without complicating matters.  But again, I was outside of the majority on that view two years ago.
<newz2000> ok, just hit send on my proposal the mailing list
<newz2000> nothlit: ^
<troy_s> Misosaki: Hrm... I suppose it depends on one's ability to generate work.
<Misosaki> troy_s: To a point, yeah.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Moderating isn't exactly a chore, and it can't be done by anyone outside of Canonical.  Plain and simple.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Well, that's a little problem. Maybe some people would like to help, except they don't know how.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Unless you speak of some externalized community -- at which point it would probably make sense to simply have someone who the interested people trust to moderate.  Pretty sure that there are a few newer faces that are interested in doing something like that.
<troy_s> Misosaki: I still am unsure how much room for change there is or 'help'.  Help is a relative term.
<_MMA_> troy_s: It will get moderated by 1 or 2 people for sure. Working with kwwii so as to let him concentrate on the art.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Possibly. Though not sure if the authorities are keen on that.
<troy_s> Misosaki: That's the bigger thing I was getting to.  ;)
<Misosaki> troy_s: nods :)
<nothlit> newz2000: ok i'll take a look
<newz2000> I may have sent it from the wrong address... trying again
* Misosaki shrugs
<Misosaki> I voted for the gallery system mainly because there seems to be interest in having some kind of powerful CMS to organise and display incoming work.
<Misosaki> A means to an end, really.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Still wondering what or where that end is.
<Misosaki> When it comes down to the basics, I'm not particularly concerned what system is being used, but that the system will be properly maintained.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Heh. There have been inklings of that the past 1-2 weeks. Nothing quite definite yet.
<newz2000> crap, it went twice. Sorry. :-(
<Misosaki> troy_s: Frankly was hoping today's meeting would settle part of that.
<troy_s> Misosaki: The two key questions -- Audience and Communication -- would probably be a high level canonical decision.
<troy_s> Misosaki: I think we would be seriously out of depth to pretend to be able to even come close to getting on point.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Yeah, unsurprisingly.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Even further, it might very well be that the Audience could be 'business desktops' -- at which point all of this is probably more well served by an extremely uber-conservative gradient style sterility.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Up side is, at least people are willing to talk. Down side is ... well.
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> Misosaki: It cracks me up when people say 'new users of the os' as though that is an audience.  It certainly is a broad sweeping generalization, but a 15 year old new user is far different than a 38 year old one.
<Misosaki> troy_s: There isn't anything wrong per se with uber-conservative gradient style sterility ... still counts as an aim, in a way lols.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Look no further than Apple to see well directed communication.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Absolutely!
<Misosaki> troy_s: nods
<troy_s> Misosaki: But I think what a lot of people are looking for in their desktops is more personality -- a more outspoken 20 something sentimentality?  I don't know if the high levels of Canoncial are necessarily in line with that.
<troy_s> By 'a lot of people' I mean the ones voicing the traditional vocals.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Personality?
<troy_s> Misosaki: A communication.  A personality.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Something that speaks something in relation to the person using it.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Yeah ... though the docs have yet to clearly indicate the line of the authorities.
<troy_s> Misosaki: I wouldn't be holding my breath.  At a high level Steve Jobs is well aware of the importance of those sorts of issues and is largely the reason Apple has seen a resurgence - it tackles a very specific audience and communicates extremely effectively to them.
<troy_s> Misosaki: The iPhone is an exercise in limitations, and extremely successful because of it.  There isn't a single menu in the entire default system.
<Misosaki> troy_s: (Assuming we already know the audience)
<troy_s> Misosaki: For what?
<troy_s> Misosaki: Ubuntu?
<Misosaki> troy_s: What are some of the things you think could be learned from Apple's approach?
<troy_s> Misosaki: God -- there is clearly a 'no official stance one way or the other' for Ubuntu ;)
<Misosaki> troy_s: Great ;)
<troy_s> Misosaki: If I worked at Apple I might have an insight.  J. Ive has stated on more than one occasion that of all the things he will remember about Apple it will be the process that he remembers most.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Xerox PARC had a wonderful set of minds working towards things as well.
<troy_s> Misosaki: I would say that Apple makes decisions on behalf of their audience -- and they do a pretty good job of hitting the mark 80% of the time.
<Misosaki> troy_s: nods
<troy_s> Misosaki: The most exemplary development in Free Software was probably Diana's work -- it carried a good weight of communication and a pretty good idea of an audience.
<terlmann> kwwii I need you to make the updated palette.
<troy_s> (F7's work)
<troy_s> Misosaki: It also has a pretty decent use of a palette with a good core set of hues etc.
<troy_s> Misosaki: That said, even Apple catches lots of flak for some of their decisions.  It is quite clear that no one knows where / how / etc. are the hard and fast rules as to how to drive an operating system into the future.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Well, change is a two-edged sword.
<troy_s> Misosaki: by the way, that orange set you posted on the wiki had some very contemporary feeling to it as a starting point.
<troy_s> One was very in line with the 8 track 60s revival that is sprouting up in a few areas... rather cool.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Thanks. That was part of the concept - to expand on different notions of "a modern OS". One of the problems was I didn't really have a very clear idea of what was wanted.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Or rather, the docs were sparse on the point, compared to what was being discussed here, for instance.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Obviously doing the drafting, one really appreciates some of the problems with not having a clear direction.
<Misosaki> *one begins to appreciate
<troy_s> Misosaki: But you know... that is the point.  FOSS software _could_ be on the bleeding edge of contemporary -- but we are still stuck in that nasty swoopy swirl curve garbage.
<troy_s> Misosaki: The 70s disco revival that is popping up in designer circles is quite cool -- its nice to see what people can do with a form if given latitude.
<Misosaki> troy_s: nods
<troy_s> Misosaki: Again though, that isn't going to be the role of the current distributions.  None of them are really aiming at that contemporary edge.
<troy_s> Misosaki: It _might_ be a very viable direction for a core team of people to work towards though.
<troy_s> Misosaki: To deliver a collaborative approach to contemporary design.  Until someone like Apple steps up and makes it 'hip', I seriously doubt whether any distro would have the balls.
<Misosaki> troy_s: At this rate it'll probably be more of a side project (i.e. package extras) than the default.
<Misosaki> If it happens.
<Misosaki> troy_s: Yeah ... then again, change is often about taking the risks.
<troy_s> Of course.
<troy_s> Misosaki: Change and newness should be one of the greatest strengths of FOSS.  Not duplication of imitation.
<troy_s> Misosaki: One would expect it to be a bastion of innovation (which it is in some circles I suppose).
<Misosaki> troy_s: Yeah
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-03
<kwwii> I get the feeling that no mattter what i said this "is *exactly* the target audience of ubuntu that troy_s would disagree
<kwwii> funny that he never steps up and says his opinion but seems to spend more time discussing others opinions and being sarcastic
<kwwii> sick of that
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Hey man... short term memory back to Edgy eh?
<Misosaki> With due respect, the meeting was a a sign we are getting somewhere, but there is still much to be rolled out before the designers can actually get to work.
<kwwii_away> troy_s: no, I am tired of you being negative and sarcastic without being helpful
<kwwii_away> you have so much to offer but you always try to be so negative when we finally have chance to change things
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Actually, if you look to what I say, and not what you _want_ me to say, you will probably see the logic.  I just find it ironic that in this day and age you want optimism when you were possibly the most bullish during Edgy when it came to establishing a process.
<troy_s> kwwii_away: It isn't a negativity.  I have a serious caution when it comes to where Ubuntu can go.  Ultimately, as we _both_ know, the big hurdle is sabdfl.
<kwwii_away> troy_s: and what does that have to do with the future?
<kwwii_away> try, and try again
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Well as far as I am concerned, the _current_ gets you to the future.
<kwwii_away> if you really care
<kwwii_away> I think that the more you work against the current efforts just shows how much you are not interested in working towards the futures as now we finally have a chance at changing things...I do not need people telling me what is wrong but people telling me how to do things right
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Whoa.  How am I working against the current effort?
<Misosaki> Will there be another meeting soon, and when will the things the designers need to get started (e.g. palette, etc.) be released?
<kwwii_away> just stop being negative please...I know that you could help, if you tried - you know what you are talking about just try to move the effort forward instead of putting down everything that we have done
<kwwii_away> Misosaki: I think that we will need another meeting sooner rather than later
<kwwii_away> probably within the next few weeks
<Misosaki> kwwii_away: Okay. Because some people look like they want to get started.
<Misosaki> kwwii_away: *Just asking because
<kwwii_away> Misosaki: yeah, that is why I think it would probably be good to have a meeting soon...I'll send an email to the list with more info soon
<troy_s> kwwii_away: The gap is between sabdfl and what happens in terms of dev.  That is a fundamental problem -- not being bloody negative!
<kwwii_away> troy_s: how has sabdfl been negative so far in this process?
<troy_s> kwwii_away: ?!?!?!?!
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Where the hell did I type that?
<kwwii_away> The gap is between sabdfl and what happens in terms of dev. That is a fundamental problem
<kwwii_away> that is what you said
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I cited the fundamental problem (which is the same one over and over again) -- I have yet to see any motion towards migrating that.
<Misosaki> kwwii_away: And this time, it would be nice if the audience and communication thing were addressed thoroughly once and for all.
<troy_s> kwwii_away:  I said that wasn't me being negative.  I merely pointed out a hurdle.  I don't know how to negotiate that as it is a tremendous one.
<kwwii_away> Misosaki: yepp, I agree
<kwwii_away> troy_s: then I will tell you that it is not a problem as it has been before
<kwwii_away> anyway
<kwwii_away> time for bed
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Wonderful.  And he intends to actually steer the boat?
<kwwii_away> to some extent yes but not like it was in the previous releases
<troy_s> (and by steer the boat I mean to actually give clear 'yes' or 'no' directionality -- not sit like a cheerleader.)
<kwwii_away> he already took a much lesser step in the design for gutsy
<kwwii_away> he told me what he liked, nothing more
<kwwii_away> and he trusts me much more now
<kwwii_away> the point, as I always said was about building trust
<kwwii_away> nobody ever wanted to get that before
<kwwii_away> everyone wanted to say "I like this" while that never formed a consensus
<kwwii_away> no wonder that he stepped in and took control
<kwwii_away> somebody had to
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I don't understand how the end was much different?
<kwwii_away> even if they did not know everything
<Misosaki> kwwii_away: Then you'll be sure to pass the word on as to what he wants?
<kwwii_away> lol, then you never worked in this branch
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I suppose it is two sides to the trust -- one of the sabdfl side and one of the people who might be able to do the work.
<kwwii_away> yes, that is part of my job
<troy_s> and perhaps two perspectives on a situation.
<kwwii_away> to work for the community and for the company
<kwwii_away> but first I had to earn trust with the company - they are paying for this after all
<kwwii_away> someone pays 10 million euros a year for something which he gives away for free and people get all freaky that he wants to get what he thinks is right and people get all freaky about it - i simply do not understand that
<kwwii_away> anyway...goodnight
<kwwii_away> things will change, that much I promise
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I have said all along, I have _zero_ problem with sabdfl wanting things his way.  Zero zippo zip -- hence my complete detachment from any process -- what he wants is very clearly something different than what some want.
<kwwii_away> just be positice
<kwwii_away> positive
<kwwii_away> troy_s: that will always be the case no matter who is in charge
<kwwii_away> you will never please all the people all of the time
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Well no kidding.  The thinking was more along the bigger pictures of actually attempting to challenge a given population of market.
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I believe I posted that Aesop a while ago.  It is all about percentages.  I suppose the question is what percentages does one trust.
<kwwii_away> then why don't you step up and say what you think so that we know which percertage you belong to
<kwwii_away> you seem to like to step between things so that you can always be negative
<kwwii_away> sorry to say that
<kwwii_away> but I think you could help so much yet you do not
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I have said my piece.  And I am sorry you view my stance as negative, in my eyes the elements I try to highlight are what my experience and guts are telling me might hinder say -- the arrival at a F7 presentation.
<troy_s> kwwii_away: If we were to localize a goal.
<kwwii_away> I think that if you put more effort in trying to help the process than being negative about it we would get much further
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I TRIED TO HELP A PROCESS AND I HAD SOMEONE SITTING RIGHT THERE BEING AT LEAST AS NEGATIVE.
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Which I have long since forgiven and moved on about.  Now I am quite interested to see alternates.
<kwwii_away> dude, the fact the frank failed is not due to him, he is kid with no experience
<troy_s> Did I once blame Frank?
<kwwii_away> I told you in advance that I did not think his approach would work at that ime
<kwwii_away> time
<kwwii_away> not that he did not have good ieas
<troy_s> And you strove like a bugger to make that vision happen.
<kwwii_away> ideads
<kwwii_away> no, I had nothing to do with it
<kwwii_away> I only worked on kubuntu at the time
<kwwii_away> which is easy
<troy_s> You sat on the sidelines and puddled.  C'mon... I was there.
<kwwii_away> you can do anything with kubuntu and nobody will care
<terlmann> heya kwwiii
<kwwii_away> I was only paid to work on that
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Granted that with Kubuntu, not many care.
<kwwii_away> there are so many eyes on ubuntu that is has to be perfect
<terlmann> given, troy_s. Only thing to do with opposition is shoot it.
<kwwii_away> and we need people like you to help us
<terlmann> SHOOT IIT
<kwwii_away> but we need you to be helpfull and not negative
<_MMA_> terlmann: You really need to stay out of this.
* terlmann gives the room a big hug
<kwwii_away> terlmann: take a piss for while, will you?
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I can't help.  I have no idea how to help the situation.  The biggest problem (again not being negative) is that the first pass of process failed SOLELY because sabdfl was a missing member of the panel.
<kwwii_away> troy_s: yes, I agree on why it failed in the past
<kwwii_away> that is not point
<kwwii_away> I tried to explain why it would not work at the time but you and frank did not want to listen to me
<troy_s> kwwii_away: If somewhere, from someone up high you can get who the heck Hardy is going to aim at we might win.  I still feel that on some level the uber-conservativism might be an attempt to pull in an business market.
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Are you kidding me?
<kwwii_away> there was no way it would work as you expected at the time
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Do you have any idea how hard Frank tried to get sabdfl to get involved and make an executive call on things?
<terlmann> I quote my self : <terlmann> Mark , I would like to say that the community and you are not unified. Your in control of this and we know it. But whether your controlling hand is a shaky one or a firm one , that detail is not known.
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I mean seriously kwwii_away, Frank is no idiot.
<joejaxx> terlmann: just be quiet
<kwwii_away> yes I do, and I felt sorry for him at the time, and I told him so way in advance
<kwwii_away> terlmann: shut up, please
<terlmann> ok
<troy_s> kwwii_away: It was less about frank and more about the very real disjointed nature of the client and the work that needs to be done.
<kwwii_away> troy_s: I told him exactly what the problems would be and they all came ture
<kwwii_away> ture
<kwwii_away> ahhh
<kwwii_away> true
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I don't think _anyone_ could negotiate that.
<kwwii_away> troy_s: I agree there was no way to deal with that
<troy_s> kwwii_away: And I still am wondering if _anything_ has changed in that department.  Remember -- at the head of it Mark was identical in _stance_ but the _dance_ was way off.
<kwwii_away> the only way to deal with it was to work things out over time
<kwwii_away> troy_s: I know it was bad, and I saw it coming, and I warned frank again and again that he would be the scape-goat
<troy_s> kwwii_away: It was most unfortunate because I personally told sabdfl at the very beginning that to gain the trust (the other side of trust) it would take patience and _time_.
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Unfortunately, that all got burned in the barn, as well as some very decent talent.
<kwwii_away> the thing is, that explainig to him the problems is too much...he does not need the problems, he needs the answers
<kwwii_away> and now he is ready to accept the answers
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I asked nearly day one for anything -- a sample of what he considers 'good design'
<troy_s> kwwii_away: And even still, it seems all we have is a page out of a magazine... lol.
<kwwii_away> at that time I do not think that anything would make him happy excecpt doing exactly what he wanted
<troy_s> kwwii_away:  Hey man -- he had a willing legion at one point.
<troy_s> kwwii_away: No one could find out.
<kwwii_away> agreed
<kwwii_away> that is why I warned frank
<troy_s> kwwii_away: It was like milking blood from a stone.  He probably falls into that category of the personality that really doesn't know what it likes or has never had to quantify it.  That's fine, but not so fine for the fools who have to try and replicate it.
<kwwii_away> ask him, I told him in advance
<kwwii_away> I warned him of what I thought he was walking into
<kwwii_away> and it all came true
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Anways, before you bed, see if Canonical is mature enough to have a stated audience and goal.  And by audience, let's try and boil it down into a standard demographic lol.
<kwwii_away> dude, I will make it come true or I will loose my job
<troy_s> kwwii_away: How so?
<kwwii_away> I wish that I has someone like frank to help me now
<kwwii_away> he would be a good partner in this now
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Frank will avoid free software like the plague.
<kwwii_away> at the time he was just screwed because of the situation
<kwwii_away> and I told him so
<kwwii_away> again and again
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Oh the other side of that bloody gongshow -- aside from pissing off community members and capable folks -- was that all the people who actually LEARNED from that experience went 'poof' in a puff of smoke.
<kwwii_away> ask him
<kwwii_away> yepp, what a waste of talent
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Well let's put it this way -- your 'warning' was viewed as being rather negative on the whole situation.  I don't think Frank minds about the result actually.  Most things like that are about the journey anyways.
<troy_s> kwwii_away: The talent can be regrown -- the learning experience can't.
<troy_s> (well without repeating, and I don't think many people are up for that.)
<kwwii_away> but what did you expect me to do? I said again and again to you and frank at UDS Paris that there where problems but you did not want to listen to me
<troy_s> kwwii_away: ?  If the goal was to establish a process isn't that what one should do -- do or die?
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Or you can start politicking.
<kwwii_away> it is not a matter of the community growing...it was a matter of other people seeing the reality of things
<troy_s> kwwii_away: And I guess we differ in views on that.
<kwwii_away> sabdfl had to see and trust those around him first
<kwwii_away> that means doing what he wants and showing him what he wants first
<kwwii_away> and then moving on
<troy_s> kwwii_away: And at that point, neither was possible.  He wasn't able to vocalize _anything_, nor did he seem interested to.
<kwwii_away> first you have to gain trust and then you can move on
<kwwii_away> it was all too much at one time
<kwwii_away> I told frank that, ask him
<kwwii_away> I warned him before he even took the job
<kwwii_away> the situation was fscked up, and i saw that in advance
<kwwii_away> luckily I was only responsible for kubuntu at the time -he did not care about that
<kwwii_away> and to be honest, the better I did at that the more I earned his trust, funny enough
<kwwii_away> I hated the feisty artwork
<kwwii_away> for ubuntu
<kwwii_away> but it made him happy to some extent
<kwwii_away> and it gained trust
<troy_s> kwwii_away:  Whatever one thinks they were 'right' about is irrelevant.  The simple fact was that any of the works would have been better than what ended up in E.  That's the great silly.
<kwwii_away> god, why do I have to go through this on an open irc channel?
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Transparency.
<kwwii_away> troy_s: I agree totally
<kwwii_away> edgy turned out to be total shit
<troy_s> kwwii_away: Well... arguably since Dapper they have been.
<kwwii_away> well, it was as bad as feisty wa
<kwwii_away> was
<kwwii_away> and I made that shit
<troy_s> kwwii_away: And again, that is more about how much Canonical is willing to move.  All the talent and execution in the world is worth nothing if people aren't going to be willing to roll with it.
<kwwii_away> but maybe we can slowly move forward
<troy_s> kwwii_away: I don't know.  I would love to see what sabdfl has to say on things.  I wonder how he feels about the long string of debacles.
<kwwii_away> so let#s not be negative but move forward
<kwwii_away> if you really were to ask him honestly you would only set things back I think
<troy_s> lol.
<kwwii> can you understand how there is a point between being honest and being honest?
<kwwii> I tried to tell frank that he was screwed from the start
<kwwii> nothing he did was bad
<kwwii> but he could never do what he was intended to do and make it
<kwwii> now maybe we have a chance
<troy_s> I have no complaints with anyone other than sabdfl choosing to avoid issues.  I have a major complaint with the way it was spun.  Utter tripe.
<kwwii> so let's make the most of it and move forward
<troy_s> I believe I have been.  I have stuck around and kept contributing -- albeit I have chosen to not really bother with the Ubuntu thing as it still feels all too familiar.
<kwwii> yes, I do admit that you have been more positive than ever before
<troy_s> ?
<troy_s> lol... sure.
<terlmann> kwwii : would you be willing to appoint more persons to draw up resolutions for sabdfl to approve ?
<kwwii> but you have to understand how hard it has been for me to talk to you in the past in an open irc channel although I might have agreed with you on many points
<troy_s> I just do what I do.  I can't suggest for a second that I can deliver content that will work.  That said, the fundamental flaws with Ubuntu are well known -- even the forum people (if you pour over some of the comments) hit on the possible paths to salvation.
<kwwii> terlmann: no, unless sabdfl tells me so
<terlmann> Knowing the answers to the problem is what you need ol benevolent to have , not the problems themselves. Perhaps if you set up some committees of your own you might get something done.
<troy_s> terlmann: You have to understand -- sabdfl is worth half a billion dollars -- he really could care less.
<kwwii> troy_s: i think that you have come
<troy_s> terlmann: He has the world by the beets.
<kwwii> erm
<terlmann> the richest man in the world could care about the smallest things of all. Just try it.
<terlmann> anyway I am talking about indirect resolution , not direct
<terlmann> we report to you
<kwwii> troy_s: I think that you have come *very* close to what *we* want and that shows that you do know what is *needed*
<troy_s> terlmann: confucius, you can't possibly be a bloody fortune cookie.
<terlmann> you give the ideas to him , not us
<troy_s> kwwii: I doubt that sincerely.
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> terlmann: I have been very lienent (sl
<kwwii> spelling)
<troy_s> terlmann: In the end, no one has the 'way out'.
<kwwii> terlmann: please stop
<_MMA_> Oh christ. terlmann cant you just stay out of the conversation? Let it die for tonight. Let kwwii sleep.
<terlmann> lenient = tolerance of stupidity. I see this is pointless. Good night.
<kwwii> terlmann: I will stop you if you do not know how to stop yourself
<troy_s> Ouch.  A little on the uh... hard.
<kwwii> what an idiot
* _MMA_ claps.
<kwwii> I am sick of him
<troy_s> We are all idiots.
<kwwii> I tried to be tolerant
<troy_s> I was having trouble figuring out what he was trying to say... let alone get angry with him.
<kwwii> but I am fed up with his stupidtiy
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> maybe I just had enough
<joejaxx> lol
<_MMA_> troy_s: He just continually get the subtle hints to chill.
<joejaxx> the anger is justified
<nothlit> wow, finally
<kwwii> thanks joejaxx
<_MMA_> *continually doesnt
<joejaxx> kwwii: you are most welcome
<kwwii> thanks nothlit
<_MMA_> Sleep!!
<kwwii> yeah, good idea
<joejaxx> _MMA_: lol
<kwwii> troy_s: please do not think that I am trying to be negative - I just want us to all work together as best is possible at the time
<kwwii> I wish that frank were still around to keep up on things
<kwwii> anyeay
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> time for sleep
<troy_s> kwwii: I am all for it assuming that the boy with the big stick is on the same page.  Remember -- sabdfl was positive about things -- but he can change his tune quickly.
<joejaxx> Goodnight kwwii :)
<troy_s> kwwii: night.
<Misosaki> Night kwwii
<kwwii> troy_s: and if so I will loose my job just as quickly, so it life
<kwwii> but I have to try
<troy_s> Hi terlmann
<terlmann> is he asleep ?
<Misosaki> No, Big Brother is watching you. ;)
<terlmann> better not be
<terlmann> Big Brother seems an insomniac
<joejaxx> that would be me
<Misosaki> lols What time at your end, joejaxx ?
<joejaxx> 20:21
<joejaxx> but i normally do not sleep
<joejaxx> it stinks
<terlmann> in the mountains joe ?
<Misosaki> Sleep has an odour?
<_MMA_> terlmann: You're just dont get it. You're rubbing alot of people the wrong way. You need to chill.
<terlmann> YEA
<joejaxx> Misosaki: :P
* terlmann goes to the freezer
<_MMA_> s/you're/you
<terlmann> say somthing contrary and you get flamed
<Misosaki> joejaxx: :)
* terlmann rubs some aloe over his ears
<_MMA_> terlmann: Please read over this and examine your actions. http://apachecon.com/2006/US/presentations/FR13/FR13-Poisonous-people.pdf
<troy_s> terlmann: I don't know if what you said was contrary.
<troy_s> terlmann: I was actually having trouble understanding what you said at all.
<terlmann> Well I am a strange bird , that is true. but go over my words again. I was simply asking some questions I don't think anyone has asked before. That said perhaps at the time it was the wrong time to say them.
<kwwii_away> terlmann: no, I am not asleep if that make you feel better
<terlmann> GO TO SLEEP
* terlmann runs
* terlmann runs away madly
<joejaxx> terlmann: you seriously need to stop this is not a Halo 3 chatroom
<_MMA_> terlmann: Strange or not you need to learn when NOT it inject yourself into things.
<_MMA_> s/it/to
<terlmann> Ok.
<troy_s> everyone go back to idling.
<terlmann> Um , send ken to bed
<nothlit> there has been no idling, we've all been watching
<terlmann> then I can argue with the rest of you
* terlmann wants an unofficial meeting that will stress No-one
<_MMA_> That happened in another, terlmann-free channel. ;)
<terlmann> I was THERE
<kwwii_away> yeah, then stay there
<terlmann> I was there and wisely kept my trap shut
<joejaxx> _MMA_: :P
<_MMA_> Naa. you didnt get the joke. ;)
<terlmann> your whole meeting lasted one hour and I said not one word in it :-D
<_MMA_> lol
<joejaxx> lol
<_MMA_> You assume I mean ubuntu-meeting.
<terlmann> YES
<terlmann> but no
<terlmann> your probably refering to something else
<_MMA_> "ass"ume
<terlmann> something mystical
<terlmann> from before time
<_MMA_> There's no way you're 19. Even someone of that age would get the hint.
<terlmann> I am 19
<terlmann> and I can prove it
<joejaxx> uh oh
<joejaxx> lol
<_MMA_> Thats sad if its true.
<terlmann> I may be mentally retarded in fact but I still want to act something older.
<_MMA_> And honestly, there's no way to prove it online. It can all be fake.
<kwwii_away> do your mystical, before time meeting on your own or you will get kicked from this channel, trust me
<troy_s> _MMA_: See, and you give toby a hard time.
<terlmann> kwwii
<kwwii_away> i do not care how old you are
<nothlit> _MMA_: chain of trust in person with gpg keys
<terlmann> I stayed out of the meeting
<terlmann> I did
<nothlit> but webcams can be faked easily
<kwwii_away> either be productive or leave
<terlmann> I promise I will stay out of anything important
<joejaxx> nothlit: lol with biometrics
<_MMA_> troy_s: Yeah. Im writing a apology email now.
<troy_s> _MMA_: LOL
<joejaxx> IanC26: nice ipv6 ;)
<Misosaki> Hi IanC26
<kwwii_away> terlmann: then there is no reason for you to be in this channel and expect to have a say in anything
<terlmann> I don't
<terlmann> I expect the unexpected
<terlmann> I guess I am wrong
<kwwii_away> yes, you are wrong
<terlmann> Your only human , after all :-)
<kwwii_away> if you only knew how many people have told me to kick you....
<dmccall> Sorry to jump in blindly (and to disappear after sending this huge wad of text), but I think one problem here is that lots of this great artwork people mention is just a single piece. There is nothing else in the desktop to go with it, and it quite often appears too close to the wire for much collaboration to happen. (Icons, gdm, usplash, miscellaneous application artwork, default settings / effects... documentation). The current 
<dmccall> In other words: Time for a single, unified mockup, posted early on, that people can look at and work on the actual components for immediately -- whether they are particularly happy about it or not. Working quickly at this is the only way to change Ubuntu's artwork, because the gradual, 'one chunk per release' approach simply can't work for a significant change in direction.
<IanC26> I was amazed that it worked (IPv6 that is)!
<joejaxx> IanC26: :D
<kwwii_away> dmccall: totally agreed
<kwwii_away> dmccall: the whole point of the new process is to facilitate that process
<kwwii_away> lol, I said process twice in one sentence
<kwwii_away> time for sleep
<kwwii_away> I give up
<kwwii_away> you can all deal with terlmann on your own
<troy_s> LOL
<Misosaki_> kwwii_away: lols Get some rest
<joejaxx> LOL
<joejaxx> Goodnight kwwii_away :)
<kwwii_away> night joejaxx, Misosaki_, all
<joejaxx> :)
<nothlit> cyas, get some rest, 2 hours isn't good for anybody
<terlmann> night bold hero
<troy_s> terlmann: You are otkadeto right?
<terlmann> no idea what that is , sorry
<_MMA_> Oh sh!t! :)
<_MMA_> lol
<_MMA_> troy_s: Please say you have the quotes.
<terlmann> Oh, a person like me.
<terlmann> well , I tried to msg kwwi before he got off
<terlmann> I said something that applies to all of you
<Misosaki_> terlmann: We're people?
<joejaxx> _MMA_: you know i log everything
<terlmann> Acting my age is not going to happen  quickly, I am sorry to say to you. I just don't have the know-how to get a grip on the situation. I am always in good spirits about anything, and I am willing to be bold with the greatest and humble with the least. Just I am sorry you do not know WHY I do it.  Because if you did , your tolerance would , in retrospect , be limitless.
<terlmann> There.
<terlmann> Something for you to chew on.
<Misosaki_> Well, maybe if you could tell us why you do what ... ?
<terlmann> please digest the whole post first.
<terlmann> chew thoughly
<_MMA_> Sorry man. "limitless" aint gonna hapen with anyone but your parents.
<terlmann> True , true.
<troy_s> terlmann: More importantly, can you illustrate or draw?
<terlmann> yes
<kwwii_away> lol
<kwwii_away> no you cannot
<terlmann> hmm ?
<_MMA_> God I wish I could kick Kenneth from the channel. :)
<kwwii_away> lol
<terlmann> I did this
<terlmann> http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/338/ubuntulionbrandedxl9.jpg
<terlmann> And I do some 3-d modelling for now
<kwwii_away> I wish I could kick myself from the channel
<_MMA_> terlmann: adding that logo takes nothing.
<terlmann> not just a logo
<terlmann> it was over 100 steps
<nothlit> kwwii_away: get to sleep before we all have to put you on ignore to
<terlmann> not just transparency
<troy_s> terlmann: Ok -- so what made you choose to center punch the logo?
<kwwii_away> wow, you added a logo to existing artwork
<terlmann> ok , hold on
<_MMA_> terlmann: than you're doing something wrong.
<kwwii_away> amazing
<kwwii_away> I am sick of this
<_MMA_> I could do it in 5 mins in Inkscape or GIMP.
<terlmann> I put some up on imageshack , but I need to find the links..
<_MMA_> troy_s or joejaxx: Do you have the hamburger quote? :)
<troy_s> ok find some links.
<troy_s> "With that, I make hamburger for the akademy!"
<_MMA_> :D
<_MMA_> If you even attempt to figure it out you go cross-eyed.
<joejaxx> LOL!
<troy_s> terlmann: Links to your works?
<terlmann> I said I am searching
<_MMA_> I really hope you do. You tend to talk alot but show little.
<_MMA_> terlmann: Ill read back to see what you post. If you dont. Ill ask tomorrow.
<terlmann> 7000 google entries man
<terlmann> I have to go through all of them
<terlmann> my originals died in a crash
<_MMA_> Im sorry man. Its just all too convenient.
<terlmann> But for you to expect me to have something is rediculious
<terlmann> how old am I ?
<_MMA_> If your 19? Yes. Its expected.
<terlmann> you take me seriously or as nonsense as YOU please.
<_MMA_> Its up to YOU to put up or shut up and trust me if you dont take it upon yourself to shut up you will be forced.
<terlmann> Just a word of wisdom for you : If you reject me now , as I act now, you will find it harder to accept me later , when I am actually acting the way you want . Ponder that for a while.
<terlmann> I am going to "shut up" now.
<nothlit> _|_: isn't this your stuff? http://terlmann.deviantart.com/
<_MMA_> You still didnt say if you're 19 os not.
<_MMA_> *or
<_|_> That is my page , yes . About two years old.
<_|_> I have not used it since I started going to college
<_MMA_> Shouldnt a 19 year-old who talks so much about his art accomplishments have examples?
<_MMA_> I have things going back to 10 years old.
<_|_> no.
<_|_> I have talked about my accomplishments >
<_|_> no.
<_|_> I bragged about how I could do better.
<_|_> at managing.
<_MMA_> You will find that your talking simply isnt enough.
<_MMA_> And whats the point of changing your nick if you stay in the channel?
<_|_>  In my Defense , you tend to like to talk to guys that impress you. Are as good or better than you at what you talk about. However, it becomes mute. The person you may be trying to talk to is too busy being impressive to talk to you.
<_|_> _MMA_ : I won't leave the channel till I give you that link.
<_MMA_> Then why change the nick?
<_|_> to say Dont talk to me , I'm busy.
<troy_s> the return of otkadeto.  I love it.
<troy_s> _|_: When you say 'However, it becomes mute", you probably mean 'moot'.  Oft confused terms.
<_MMA_> mmm..... hamburgers....
<_|_> Thank you for the clarification.
<joejaxx> do not forget the tinfoil
<joejaxx> _MMA_: ^
<_MMA_> ;)
<joejaxx> lol
<nothlit> http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
<_MMA_> :)
<_|_> http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntuzm8.jpg
<terlmann> good night
<_MMA_> ?
<_MMA_> Oh I call bullsh!t.
<woodwizzle> Hello
<woodwizzle> Are there any tools that make it easier to make custom icon themes?
<woodwizzle> and I don't mean art tools. But tols to properly organize the files etc.
<_MMA_> woodwizzle: Not that I have seen in a long time. Its a pretty manual process.
<troy_s> woodwizzle: Your best bet is to ls the directory of Tango.
<troy_s> woodwizzle: And fill in the non symlink'd icons with your plan.
<troy_s> woodwizzle: The boys of Tango have done terrific work to make it integrate in terms of layout -- of course there are still some kludges and such, but that isn't their fault.
<Misosaki> wb
<mtholdenss> hey
<lassegul> good morning!
<mtholdenss> hey
<mtholdenss> how did that meeting go yesterday?
<lassegul> very good.
<lassegul> you missed it?
<mtholdenss> yeah, i live in australia, it was at 3 am in the morning, i needed sleep haha
<lassegul> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.log.20071002_1759.html check the log
<mtholdenss> thanks
<mtholdenss> ive been trying to find that
<mtholdenss> is doing a partial upgrade on 7.10 beta good?
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-artwork.log
<nothlit`alpha> troy_s:  woodwizzle, http://csl-waltz.forja.rediris.es/ something i saw on the tango list a while ago, but it doesn't seem to have gone  much further in development -- working download here https://forja.rediris.es/websvn/wsvn/csl-waltz/tags/?rev=0&sc=0
<andreasn> oh, interesting
<andreasn> I forgot about that
<lassegul> nothlit`alpha: hi. did you get the chance to talk to kwwii about the wiki?
<nothlit> lassegul: i pmed him a link of what we worked on before he went to sleep, he said he would look at it in the morning
<kwwii_away> nothlit, lassegul: the wiki ideas look pretty good
<_MMA_> Hi Kenneth.
<_MMA_> kwwii_away: I think if you like their work/attitude nothlit & lassegul should be made the only people who maintain/organize the WIKI. (apart from you of course)
<kwwii> hi Cory
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, I was just thinking the same thing
<andreasn> kwwii: did the links I sent you work as a rough start?
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, they look good as well
<andreasn> I'll see if I can find some more
<lassegul> hi kwwii; good that you liked it. we could skip the "funny" part on the template if yould like :P
<kwwii> I am not sure how many people will actually read them but at least then they cannot say that the info was not available
<lassegul> though i find inspiration from a platypus pretty funny.
<kwwii> lassegul: seems to explain it well - leave it in :-)
<lassegul> Ive even made concept art.
<andreasn> kwwii: yeah
<lassegul> I was counting on nothlit to create the colour pallette.
<_MMA_> No Troy should. :)
<lassegul> we better be careful not to end up with a platypus 8.04 default theme :S
<kwwii> lassegul: on ething though - the guidelines part will only have one guideline (one palette, etc)
<lassegul> kwwii: I see.
<kwwii> ie. the default artwork will only have one palette, concepts, etc.
<lassegul> thats why the template is for /Alternate
<lassegul> we didnt want to do anything that you should do, thats why we kept from doing any of the important stuff.
<kwwii> right, but reading the ContributionSpec it seems to suggest creating such a page for each
<kwwii> let me find the quote...
<kwwii> == What to do ==
<kwwii> Start a new page for each idea. If it is in line with the Official Guidelines, place it under Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Guidelined. If its for alternate selection and/or the community theme, place it under Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate. Name your new page after the concept. So if the alternate concept's name is "Platypus", the new page will be Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Platypus.
<lassegul> kwwii: ok. we should edit it so it fits. but its a good material to work with, so we have it ready to implement into the wiki, just have to edit details.
<kwwii> yes, definitely
<kwwii> it is a great starting point, the part about the default artwork is all I see that needs tweaking
<lassegul> kwwii: but we need directions soon, because this is about all we can do without your guiding.
<kwwii> lassegul: right, i will start working on this stuff asap
<kwwii> (today is a holiday in Germany)
<_MMA_> So the /Alternate art will be a "community" theme/package or something?
<lassegul> oh, is it the "dont wear a tie, or we'll cut it" day?
<kwwii> _MMA_: yes, all of that should go in the community theme package
<kwwii> lassegul: lol, no but it is funny you know about that
<kwwii> it is German reunification day
<_MMA_> Wheres the link to what will be the Ubuntu-Hardy art page.
<lassegul> kwwii: i love germany and ive spent much time there.
<_MMA_> I cant find it.
<lassegul> kwwii: (not much time, but visited family.)
<kwwii> _MMA_: I do not think there is a link posted as it is not really finished yet
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<kwwii> _MMA_: I intend to rework the /Artwork front page very soon as well
<kwwii> as usual, as soon as I start on something important like this someone in the company gives me another project to work on
<kwwii> lassegul: cool, can you speak german?
<_MMA_> I just work about confusion over what will be the "official" and what will be the "community" art. It needs to be a clear separation.
<kwwii> _MMA_: right, that needs to be very clearly defined
<kwwii> by the way, I created this yesterday as well: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KennethWimer/Ideas
* _MMA_ looks.
<kwwii> that basically defines the scope of changes for Hardy
<_MMA_> The only thing I really sweat is the iconset. It can totally take longer than 6 months to do a set correctly.
<_MMA_> This is a worry for Ubuntu Studio.
<andreasn> _MAA_: isn't your base set tango-styled though?
<andreasn> the one that weddeburn did
<lassegul> kwwii: ich bin ein Eicornchen. Du bist ein Faulpelz. Wonderbra!
<lassegul> kwwii: thats it.
<kwwii> lassegul: nicht schlecht
<_MMA_> andreasn: Yes. Our current set is. Thing is, with our new concept, I dont know if they will fit.
<_MMA_> brb
<andreasn> :/
<nothlit> nice, graphical grub, we're gonna use the patched version?
<kwwii> I hope that we could make that work
<kwwii> but that is a technical issue
* kwwii leaves to collect leaves
<kwwii> my son has to collect leaves for biology - taking a walk
<kwwii_walk> _MMA_: the idea with the icon theme is to create as many of the more important icons as soon as possible, the theme will evolve over time so we have a longer time to get it all ready
<kwwii_walk> and with that, I head out for a walk
<_MMA_> kwwii_walk: Oh sure. :) Is the plan to do this over 1 dev cycle though?
<lassegul> doesnt sound like it.
<nothlit> is this something that will be refreshed over LTS or re-evolved slowly
<nothlit> or rather permanent, until there comes a need to start a new project
<nothlit> if at all
<_MMA_> I'm under the impression it will be as new as it can be for Hardy and continue to evolve from there.
<nothlit> i've started up a dedicated sobby server now btw, nothlit.zapto.org
<lassegul> nothlit: is this one hosted from the same server yesterdays session was hosted from?
<nothlit> nah that was hosted from the gobby app on my laptop
<nothlit> i compiled sobby now
<lassegul> because it lagged like you were downloading pr0n :P
<nothlit> eh...
<lassegul> gobby is cool though. they should rename it though: Gedit - multiplayer edition.
<nothlit> =/ just a cruddy connection and upstream bandwidth
<lassegul> s/though//
<nothlit> lassegul: the though works find there :)
<nothlit> fine*
<lassegul> ^^
<nothlit> wow, i didn't think foss was along this far, i thought it was still written gimp natural media specs http://www.levien.com/gimp/wetdream.html
<andreasn> krita is pretty good at natural media?
<andreasn> right?
<nothlit> the watercolour thing is test code, not realtime or usable in 1.6
<nothlit> this one is pretty great though http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~mrenold/mypaint/ wonderful brushes and key shortcuts + interface, but no layers
<andreasn> I totally need to try krita again
<nothlit> the ohter one is http://www.goghproject.com/
<nothlit> which is interesting but the the brushes are a little lacking same as gimp
<nothlit> that ones more of a streamlined gimp for painting
<nothlit> that wet dream application, looks like it was written in '01 :( seems like gimp is....
<andreasn> gogh looked nice
<andreasn> hm, I better test that, and perhaps draw them some new icons
<andreasn> "Gogh is developed nights and weekends by Aleksey Y. Nelipa" :)
<DanaG> Argh, will the brown icons in Tangerine likely be fixed (made orange again)?
<DanaG> I find the brown "desktop" icons and such clash quite violently with the orange folder icons.
<andreasn> hi DanG: isn't they just the same color as the default background?
<DanaG> Yeah, but I'd rather have the icons be orange even if the wallpaper is brown.
<andreasn> I think lapo added them for consistency's sake
<DanaG> Otherwise you get this in your Places menu: orange orange orange orange orange (folders) | BROWN computer, blue "cd/dvd", white drives.
<DanaG> Subjectively, I'd rather have the icons be consistent with the other icons, even if they don't match the wallpaper.
<andreasn> so you want it to be more monocrome?
<DanaG> Plus, since when are tangerines brown?
<DanaG> I'd just want the icons to be orange.
<DanaG> Like they used to be.
* nothlit feels sorry for kwwii and lapo
<_MMA_> Yep.
<DanaG> hmm, that was odd -- I tried to start Virtualbox, and Xorg closed (as if on logout), and then my system hard-locked to the point where even my "toggle LEDs" BIOS hotkey didn't work.
<DanaG> The last thing I said was the last thing I saw before now, so did I miss anything?
<andreasn> DanaG: it should be possible to grab a old version and put it in ./icons if I'm not mistaken
<DanaG> Unfortunately, the old versions also have the really really large Shortcut overlay.
<andreasn> well, you could just pick the monitors from the old version
<DanaG> Is there a nice list of all icons that were affected by the color change?  If so, I can modify the package myself.
<andreasn> possibly in lapo's head :)
<andreasn> but, hm, let's see
<andreasn> places/computer and places/video-display
<DanaG> Oh yeah, I have to go for a while right now.  I'll be back later.
<andreasn> status/network-error, status/network-idle, status/network-offline, status/network-receive
<andreasn> status/network-transmit-recieive, status/network-transmit
<andreasn> places/network-workgroup
<andreasn> that's all, I think
<troy_s> <DanaG> Otherwise you get this in your Places menu: orange orange orange orange orange (folders) | BROWN computer, blue "cd/dvd", white drives.
<troy_s> <DanaG> Subjectively, I'd rather have the icons be consistent with the other icons, even if they don't match the wallpaper.
<troy_s> I would hope these types of complaints could be resolved with a proper palette.  I strongly suspect that a palette would allow for the continual theme of a base tone without rolling into monochromatic hell.
<_MMA_> nothlit: I made some updates to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming if you wanna take a look.
<_MMA_> Mostly at the bottom.
<nothlit`alpha> _MMA_:the palette?
<_MMA_> Contact stuff.
<_MMA_> I will be trying to work on the palette today though.
* kwwii_walk cooks a duck...bbl
<_MMA_> kwwii_duck: Will you have a final date for submissions and then work from there? Then from that point just work with some of (3-4) the top ideas until one comes out ahead?
<kwwii_stuffed> _MMA_: yes, I think that we need to clearly say when the end of the contribution period is
<_MMA_> Should go to: "kwwii_stuffed is now known as kwwii_fat" :D
<kwwii> :p
<_MMA_> Yeah. I was just looking over my own dates and wondered how you were gonna handle it.
<_MMA_> All I have there are the freeze dates but even they might change because of the new process.
<kwwii> I had hoped to start working on this stuff tomorrow but another project has come up so I won't get to it until next week sometime
<kwwii> _MMA_: yes, I will add the end of the contribution period to the release schedule
<_MMA_> kwwii: Well you might be able to direct nothlit and lassegul till then. (next week)
<kwwii> _MMA_: right, depending on their schedule
<nothlit> kwwii_walk: so should we rephrase it so that each persons submissions goes in the Official section under their own name, or all under the official page once it's setup
<kwwii> nothlit: we should reword it so that people do not think that they need to define a palette or concepts to the official page
<kwwii> so for the community based stuff each conrtibution will be as you have described it
<lassegul> kwwii: do you have time to sketch out a quick map of how the wiki should look?
<kwwii> and the official page will be just like one of those, only with subpages for other contributions
<kwwii> lassegul: I was just sitting here with a pencil and paper trying to figure that out
<_MMA_> Not to toot my horn but I think a structure something like mine where there's a central page that's informational, then links to subpages for submissions, will work for Ubuntu as well.
<kwwii> _MMA_: toot away, I really liked the way that you did your page
* kwwii was going to steal ideas!
* _MMA_ tries to stay modest.
<_MMA_> steal away. ;)
<lassegul> kwwii: because it would be cool if nothlit and I got to be able to do things while you are busy.
<kwwii> lassegul: I will try and get something together this evening - we can talk about it once it is done, I am sure you will have some ideas that I didn't think of
<_MMA_> kwwii: Isnt it already like 9pm for you? :)
<lassegul> 20:19 in gmt+2
<_MMA_> ahh...
<kwwii> not that late yet
<_MMA_> kwwii: So lassegul and nothlit will be the "official" WIKI caretakers?
<_MMA_> (just want to make is clear for everyone and have it come from the boss) ;)
<coastGNU> Is there a chance that I may have images for cd's before gutsy release?
<coastGNU> I'm asking because I have the chance to use  cd burn-Robot at Systems IT fair in munich (23. - 26. Oct)
<coastGNU> So we will be able to give gutsy cd's to the people visiting the booth before shipit.
<kwwii> _MMA_: yes, I think that since they are doing such a good job so far I should crown them official wiki gods
<_MMA_> :)
<lassegul> Put me where i can be best used. I love working with nothlit. he is funny.
<nothlit> lol, i am?
<lassegul> yeah. but youre not aware of it ^^
<_MMA_> nothlit: Yes. Funny like a clown. You amuse us. ;)
* _MMA_ hopes nothlit gets the reference.
<nothlit> *blank stare*
<lassegul> like muse?
<_MMA_> gah...
<lassegul> we are disecting your joke
<_MMA_> yeah. Becomes unfunny.
<lassegul> yep
* _MMA_ just lest it die but will feel bad if even kwwii doesnt get it. ;)
* kwwii sings "send in the clowns"
<_MMA_> Ok. For the kids. Its a "Goodfellas" reference. Ill leave it at that.
<lassegul> i still dont get it
<lassegul> :D
<_MMA_> damn kids
<_MMA_> Well..
<_MMA_> Could be a cultural thing as well.
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099685
<lassegul> yeah ive seen it.
<lassegul> you got any sesame street material?
<_MMA_> Naa... Just Muppets. :)
* nothlit hasn't watched many mob movies
* _MMA_ goes back to try to make a sensible palette for Ubuntu Studio.
<nothlit> lassegul: help me work more on the fake concept template
<lassegul> nothlit: ive got a platypus
<lassegul> nothlit: sobby?
<nothlit> its up
<kwwii> sooo...here is what I have so far for the wiki Main Page
<kwwii> MAIN PAGE
<kwwii> -----------
<kwwii> A) General Team Info 1) Goals and Objectives 2) How to Join and Contribute
<kwwii> B) Projects 1) Official Artwork 2) Community Artwork (Better Name?)
<kwwii> C) General Guidelines 1) No porn or other BadThings(tm) 2) Licensing 3) Whatever else we think of...
<kwwii> D) Communication 1) Mailing list 2) IRC 3) art.ubuntu.com 4) Art on Forum???
<kwwii> E) Other Teams
<lassegul> its nothlit.zepto.org:6522 ?
<nothlit> zapto.org
<lassegul> there we go.
<kwwii> what do you guys think about that structure?
<_MMA_> There it looks like a good plan. Its all in how its formatted in the end.
<kwwii> yeah, I really wish the wiki looked nicer
<nothlit> kwwii: guidelines should be above the projects
<nothlit> or people will skip them
<kwwii> nothlit: might be a good point
<_MMA_> If yo uso subsections you can always have more specific guidelines there. I have them that way right at the top of the pages. Hard to miss.
<_MMA_> *If you use...
<kwwii> I wish I knew more about wiki formating
<kwwii> Basically, all I know is = =, == ==, === ===, and *
<_MMA_> :) I peek at other pages alot and have been giving tips to nothlit in PM.
<nothlit> '' '' italics, ''' ''' bold, ---- for a horizontal rule
<nothlit> kwwii: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide/Formatting , use the dropdown show raw text to check the code
<nothlit> and theres links to the rest in there
<_MMA_>  /!\ makes a warning triangle. :)
<lassegul> you got to love that.
<nothlit> oh, and ## makes wiki comments like code comments
<_MMA_> Best thing to do is look over other pages for good formatting ideas.
<_MMA_> kwwii: You're not identified so if you did reply I didnt get it.
<_MMA_> (PM)
<lassegul> what happened to the server nothlit?
<nothlit`alpha> lassegul: my connection happened to the server
<nothlit`alpha> lassegul: is yours any more stable lol?
<nothlit`alpha> what am i saying, you work for an isp... you want to host it?
<lassegul> probably
<_MMA_> bbl
<lassegul> give me two seconds
<lassegul> nothlit`alpha: do you have a session stored?
<nothlit`alpha> yeah, but its easier for you to recreate it
<nothlit`alpha> just reopen the files you have saved
<nothlit`alpha> or i can paste in what i have
<lassegul> lassegs.ath.cx default port no password.
<nothlit> kwwii: actually, this page has pretty much everything https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SyntaxReference
<kwwii> sorry, was taking my kid to bed
<_MMA_> nothlit: Nice reference page. Hadn't seen that one.
<_MMA_> /me goes back to folding laundry.
<kwwii> ooooh! laundry! what fun!
<_MMA_> ;)
<_MMA_> So goes the day of a stay-at-home Dad. ;)
<kwwii> that page really does have a lot of good info
<nothlit> oh and lol http://doc.ubuntu.com/styleguide/styleguide.html
<kwwii> styleguide? we don't need no stinking styleguides!
<kwwii> I have plenty of style as it is
<_MMA_> Says kwwii as he "pops his collar". ;)
<kwwii> :p
<nothlit> kwwii: ok, put up the submission guidelines https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionGuidelines#preview
<nothlit> we're working on the main page now from your outline
<kwwii> nothlit: looking good!
<nothlit> also, one space @ the beginning of a line is a tab, two is 2, etc
<kwwii> we might want to move that page to replace /Artwork/Incoming
<nothlit> oh, well we're also working on a contribution guideline, that ones for people who want to start a new page/concept
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> really nice to see things moving right along :-)
<lassegul> kwwii: what did you think about:
<lassegul> 20:51 < kwwii> D) Communication 1) Mailing list 2) IRC 3) art.ubuntu.com 4) Art  on Forum???
<lassegul> 4) Art on forum?? We should link to ubuntuforums artwork section?
<lassegul> Wouldnt that just make more mess?
<_MMA_> lassegul: I wouldnt link to the art section but to a specific thread that you should contain feedback to.
<lassegul> _MMA_: I see.
<_MMA_> Otherwise you'll have things spread all over. It will most likely happen anyway but it should be noted in the "official" thread that thats the only one that matters.
<_MMA_> Though the working could be better than that.
<lassegul> should we put in the art.ubuntu.com and the thread now, or keep the out until they are created?
<lassegul> *them
<kwwii> lassegul: yeah, that is why I had a question mark by it :-9
<_MMA_> lassegul: You could do the text for it now but comment it out until things are in place.
<kwwii> we can either leave out auc for now, or put it in with a "coming soon" next to it
<lassegul> thats cool :D
* _MMA_ just hides stuff so he doesn't get bugged.
<_MMA_> "When is soon?" 10 times a day in #ubuntustudio.
<kwwii> yeah, it will just cause more confusion and annoyance
<lassegul> ok hidden it is
<lassegul> how do you comment things out on the wiki?
<lassegul> :S
<_MMA_> ##
<lassegul> _MMA_: thanks
<_MMA_> I think the 2 are needed.
* kwwii exports pics from the walk today, uploads to flickr
<lassegul> but what is the point of the forum thread?
<kwwii> lassegul: just leave it out for now
<lassegul> ok.
<nothlit> am i allowed to use canadian/british spelling? i don't like writing color and customization
<lassegul> nothlit: how do you write customization?
<nothlit> customisation
<_MMA_> lassegul: For Ubuntu Studio I will use it to pool the users and get feedback. Ill start it off as simple chat then have a poll added later once final submissions are in place. Thats just me.
<_MMA_> s/pool/poll
<lassegul> ok
<kwwii> nothlit: feel free to spell as you wish :-)
<kwwii> we can always make fun of you later :p
<_MMA_> Yeah. I showed the U-S wiki to my guys and spelling was all they could comment on. Tremendous help. :)
<_MMA_> Its still kinds bad because Firefox checks spelling. :)
<_MMA_> *kinda
<nothlit> Woot! I reworked the technical resources page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation
<nothlit> this is what it looked like before https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation?action=recall&rev=25
<nothlit> the new links courtesy of andresn
<nothlit> andreasn*
<kwwii> erm, now I know what we forgot on the main page...a link to resources like logos, etc
<_MMA_> nothlit: The links in the themeing section could be cleaner formatted like: [http://library.gnome.org/admin/gdm/stable/thememanual.html.en Themed Greeter] 
<_MMA_> Just an idea. :)
<kwwii> erm, that is what you just did, probably best to link to that on the main page
<SloggerKhan> Missed the meeting but it looks like it went fine in the log.
<nothlit> wow... do we need emerald documentation in there or something? =/
<kwwii> emerald?
<_MMA_> Compiz-fusion now.
<_MMA_> (Im guessing)
<kwwii> ahhh, now I see
<_MMA_> I would say dont take submissions on that as it would be better to just let Compiz use its Metacity capability/plugin/whatever.
<kwwii> well, it might be helpfull for anyone wanting to create or tweak some effect although that is more technical
<nothlit> emerald or cgwd or whatever ubuntu is using for atlernate compositing window decoration
<_MMA_> I guess it all depends on the amount of "bling" you want to allow. I think Compiz itself allows for more effects than Metacity.
<_MMA_> Effects on the window decorations that is.
<_MMA_> kwwii: What do you feel about themeing the panels? http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/3427/screenshottd5.png I love doing it. We do it in Ubuntu Studio, though it does have its issues. http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3746/screenshot1hy0.png There's also an issue when looking at the "properties" on a panel launcher.
<nothlit> _MMA_: i fixed the page =p
<nothlit> darkmatter has discovered the secret to theming everything needed
<_MMA_> nothlit: Perrdy
<nothlit> _MMA_: ouch @ the ss
<kwwii> _MMA_: I like it, I think that we will use a bg pic for the panel in hard
<kwwii> y
<_MMA_> There will surely be bugs filed based off if what I said above. I wish I could give the GNOME guys a fix for this.
<_MMA_> nothlit: darkmatter is indeed a GTK genius if you can keep him around.
<nothlit> a bg pic? it has to be scalable or people will run into issues with large fonts or changing the size
<nothlit> tiling issues =/
<_MMA_> Yes. Over 24px for the panels starts to tile them and under chops off the image.
<_MMA_> 24px is just the standard size. 20px image and 20px panel works fine.
<_MMA_> But it looks Ohhh... so nice when done right even with the issues. :)
<nothlit> kwwii: do we replace https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/PageTemplate with the platypus example or keep it seperate
<kwwii> nothlit: I think that we could leave it and create a new template with the platypus example...call it ArtworkProjectTemplate or such
<kwwii> what do you think?
<nothlit> oh ok sure
<nothlit> i know that the two pages serve slightly different purposes
<nothlit> i was just wondering how often/needed it was for things other that artwork concepts
<nothlit> than*
<kwwii> if we find that we do not need the other we can remove it
<nothlit> kwwii: do we turn D) Communication 1) Mailing list 2) IRC 3) art.ubuntu.com 4) Art on Forum??? into a replacement of  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GetInvolved ?
<nothlit> there isn't much communication that goes on in launchpad, and not much most people actually do on it in terms of artwork
<kwwii> I think that that page is still kinda good to have around, perhaps we should keep it and link to it from the main page with something like (for more information) or such
<_MMA_> kwwii: Who's the "go-between" for what comes out of the WIKI and what gets packaged? dholbach?
<kwwii> _MMA_: unfortunately there is nobody anymore
<_MMA_> :(
<kwwii> _MMA_: they tried to get me to do it :p
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> but I will have a long talk with them in boston
<_MMA_> Maybe I can lend you one of my guys. :)
<kwwii> dholbach was the person
<kwwii> hehe, sell him to me :-)
<_MMA_> ;)
<_MMA_> Reason I asked was management of things on bzr and LP.
<kwwii> we really need to find someone to take care of the packaging side of things
<kwwii> at this time the answer is: ask someone on #ubuntu-desktop or #ubuntu-devel
<_MMA_> Most of the source packaging is pretty strait-forward. The iconset is the real pisser.
* nothlit looks at joejaxx ;p
<_MMA_> Hell no!! That kid needs sleep.
<nothlit> oh nm, hes driving atm
<_MMA_> kwwii: Im totally sure you could do the bzr and LP changes. You would just need someone to push the changes to the archive.
<kwwii> _MMA_: at the time, I am taking care of it...all the new packages for gutsy were made by me
<kwwii> and I give them to pitti or someone to include
<_MMA_> Oh killer.
<kwwii> but it gets really annoying having to handle launchpad, edit python scripts and such, build a source deb and then find someone to convince to include it
<kwwii> my job is to do the artwork, not to do the artwork packaging :p
<kwwii> I have no problem with doing bzr, that seems easy enough
<_MMA_> Believe me. I totally understand. ;)
<nothlit> kwwii: whats the Community Artwork mean, just random wallpapers etc uploaded to art.ubuntu.com, or do you mean anything that doesn't follow sabdfls wants for the cycle
<kwwii> nothlit: I mean anything that someone starts like blubuntu or my greengrass for example
* lassegul gets cookies.
<kwwii> an entire theme based on an idea which is different than the concept and palette for the default artwork
<nothlit> oh ok
<nothlit> kwwii: do you have a particular license? or do we allow CC, Artistic License, BSD, GPL, etc
<nothlit> also is CC-NC workable for ubuntu or not permitted
<kwwii> I think that we have to allow all of them but we should suggest CCbySA I think
<nothlit> lassegul: bah, now i want cookies. what type are you eating
<nothlit> ok sure
<_MMA_> Anything that conforms to DFSG most likely.
<kwwii> as we are not selling ubuntu I think that CC-NC is okay but should be frowned upon
<nothlit> kwwii: does it have to be a free license, or are we also permitted private/commercial works that give ubuntu license
<lassegul> nothlit: maryland choc chips and hazelnuts and a glass of fresh cold norwegian milk.
<kwwii> one thing that is very important is that people state which license they are going to use
<kwwii> nothlit: I think that to avoid problems it has to be a free license of some sort
<_MMA_> DFSG - http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
<nothlit> american, south african, or unported
<_MMA_> Yay! My GIMP issue is gonna get fixed. :) Bug 131564
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 131564 in gimp "crashes when using the small theme" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/131564
<nothlit> thats not a medium bug, thats critical.
<_MMA_> To us sure. :)
<_MMA_> I dont know if they're gonna fix the system sounds issue either. Which I feel is more important.
<nothlit> gimp is unusable without the small theme to all but seniors, i would say myopics, but i'm one and have no trouble
<kwwii> small theme?
<nothlit> makes the text and the icons smaller for more usable screen estate
<nothlit> its just a premade custom gtkrc
<kwwii> lol, I never saw that until now
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> and my laptop only has a 12" monitor
<nothlit> same :D
<darkmatter> nothlit : yes, but theming everything needed makes for one BIG theme :P
<nothlit> darkmatter: ubuntu needs completeness :D
<darkmatter> lol. yes. and less bugs ;)
<nothlit> darkmatter: and wonderful natural buttons like glory!
<darkmatter> :)
<kwwii> it is a feature, not a bug - http://sinecera.de/feature_not_bug.jpg
<nothlit> You don't have permission to access /feature_not_bug.jpg on this server.
<nothlit> oh... LOL
<lassegul> lol
* kwwii just uploaded pics from today to http://www.flickr.com/photos/kwwii/
<kwwii> made a tea, now it is time for bed (early for a change)
<_MMA_> Yay! Sleep!
<kwwii> I get the feeling that tomorrow is going to be another long day
<kwwii> night all
<_MMA_> Yeah. A "long day" of dog-walking and duck-eating. :)
<_MMA_> Night sir.
<lassegul> good night.
<nothlit> to the lurking not yet asleep k wii, this is what we have so far https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/text/MainPage.txt
<nothlit> and good night =p
<nothlit> _MMA_: i thought it was child walking for biology leaf collection
<_MMA_> Oh. :) I missed that.
<kwwii_sleep> nothlit: looks pretty good so far ;-)
<kwwii_sleep> child, dog - what is the difference?
<kwwii_sleep> :p
<_MMA_> lol
<kwwii_sleep> they are both loud, eat a lot, make a big mess, can make you happy at times, sad at times, annoyed at times
<nothlit> _MMA_: look, i made sure to include UbuntuStudio artwork :D =p
<kwwii_sleep> oh wait, the one can speak
<kwwii_sleep> with that, I bid you adue
<_MMA_> :D
<nothlit> _MMA_: Currently we are attempting to collect all art related people under the ubuntu-art team on Launchpad.  This has been quite successful thus far, and therefore one should consider the ubuntu-art team as a good starting point for work.
<nothlit> does that apply to uS?
<_MMA_> Sure.
<_MMA_> Its the reason Im in here now.
<SloggerKhan> eventually a child can help support you in your old age... at least if you raise them well.
<_MMA_> Id also like to see however handles Xubuntu's stuff in here.
<lassegul> im turning in. good night all.
<_MMA_> Night sir.
<nothlit> last wiki formatting resource https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnFormatting
<nothlit> _MMA_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio looks soo snazzy with all the tables
<_MMA_> ;)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-04
<kwwii_sleep> moin
<troy_s> <kwwii> one thing that is very important is that people state which license they are going to use
<troy_s> Rather important as the FSF has stated quite clearly that the CCbySA is incompatible with the GPL.
<troy_s> Might be worth considering licensing the artwork via the GPLv3 (as Debian is the Ubuntu heritage) so it keeps it open for Debian integration.
<lassegul> good morning.
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, might be a very good point
<troy_s> kwwii: I don't know how all of that is going to play out, but very clearly having a license that is directly conflicting with the GPL is a problem.
<troy_s> kwwii: Also, the only way around the matter was to apparently create TWO full 'packages' with different licenses for each.  Which is rather well... silly.
<kwwii> you are probably right...maybe we have a lawyer who could help me make a decision on this
<troy_s> kwwii: If you peruse the FSF (I think it was) you will probably see their clear statement that CCbySA is a no compatible thing (as I believe it stems from the 'all encompassing' nature of both licenses)
<kwwii> I'll check that out
<kwwii> as it is, we did not put in any suggestion for which license, just stating that it had to be a free license with a few examples
<kwwii> if CCbySA turns out to be a bad choice we can remove it from that list
<Madpilot> I've still never understood the FSF's objection to cc-by-sa - it's the GPL, made slightly less specific, far as I can tell
<troy_s> Madpilot: The explanation given was that (and this was from some analysis from outside of both the CC and GPL camps)
<troy_s> that each license tries to be 'all encompassing' and as a result they both end up colliding.
<troy_s> I think it is less about what the licenses 'mean' or 'are about' and more about the fact that they are effectively two different licenses trying to encompass the whole -- despite heading towards common goals.
<troy_s> It is more apparently about the licenses trying to 'be alpha' license.
<artnay> kwwii: would it be possible to release the official CD cover artwork when 7.10 is launched? we're shipping CDs to libraries here in .fi but we (LoCo) were denied to receive official CDs that would be distributed to local libraries. at least the official CD cover artwork would be needed with self-made CDs.
<kwwii> artnay: erm, who refused what?
<kwwii> if anyone refused something it is probably the Gutsy artwork which was refused because it is not finished yet, I would guess
<kwwii> I just approved some last minute changes recently, I doubt that anyone has it in a form with which to give it to you
<kwwii> if you wait until the release it would not be a problem
<artnay> ok then. actually shipit denied the official CDs, not the actual artwork
<artnay> but it's always been a pain to find the official CD cover artwork
<artnay> afaik it hasn't even been released
<artnay> in many cases... both https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing should have it
<nothlit> the diy marketing page has some horrid modifications =o
<kwwii> artnay: which version are we talking about here?
<kwwii> artnay: the feisty artwork is online
<nothlit> he wants gutsy cover art
<nothlit> artnay: i thought when you order in bulk from shipit you can/should pay for it?
<nothlit> artnay: why would that be denied
<kwwii> there are no Gutsy CDs yet
<kwwii> as Gutsy is not done yet
<artnay> yes, understood. just wanted to express that there's a need for official CD cover artwork.
<artnay> nothlit: heh, that's what we were talking about with jenda
<kwwii> artnay: as soon as it is released I will see that it finds a place in the wiki (probably the DIY I guess)
<artnay> kwwii: great.
<artnay> in the past the official CD cover artwork wasn't released, nice to see the situation has changed
<kwwii> artnay: it has been released for at least the last two releases
<kwwii> I know because I put it up :-)
<artnay> it's in examples at least, right?
<kwwii> nope, it is on the wiki somewhere
<kwwii> that work is done by an external company with Adobe software so there is little point releasing their originals, all I release is the pdf version
<nothlit> i've actually seen svgs in the forums before, translated svgs or something
<andreasn> kwwii: indesign format?
<kwwii> andreasn: usually just AI
<andreasn> ok
<andreasn> could be fairly simple to make into a svg
<kwwii> except the text never comes out the same
<kwwii> but yeah, to some extent it is possible
<andreasn> the text could be fixed afterwards with first tracing it, the retyping the text in the same font in inkscape
<andreasn> anyway, whatever :)
<_MMA_> kwwii: .AI!? For shame. :(
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> man, how dare they do print work without linux :D
<_MMA_> lol. They dont.
<_MMA_> Sad fact.
<kwwii> sure, with linux you kinda have to guess at the colors, but hey! it is free!
<_MMA_> err.. Dont do it well anyway.
<kwwii> maybe that will change in the future
<_MMA_> Yeah. If we can stop forking everything and agree on things/standards.
<_MMA_> Stop hiding "This is open-source. choice is everything".
<kwwii> lol, no doubt
<kwwii> but open source software is like a religion
<kwwii> each piece has their own "truth"
* _MMA_ is an agnostic. ;)
<_MMA_> I like alot of the choices we do have but it slows us down so much its terrible.
<nothlit> _MMA_: if there was no choice we'd all be using kde, and thered be no gnome, xfce, lxde, fluxbox, etc
<_MMA_> nothlit: No. Your example is too basic. Its the overwhelming choices we do have.
<_MMA_> A new user looking at Distrowatch is a good example.
<andreasn> I managed to do quite a lot of print stuff in scribus
<_MMA_> nothlit: KDE, Gnome, XFCE, Fluxbox are fine choices. Beyond that I think its pointless. IMO Enlightenment and XFCE could have part of Gnome. People let their own egos and personal feelings get in the way all too often.
<_MMA_> *have been part...
<kwwii> not to be evil, but look at the first email the was sent to start the Gnome project - it went something along the lines of "I want to create something like KDE but different" :p
<_MMA_> Im sure you know the other major reasons why Gnome started. Im also sure you know exactly what Im talking about. ;)
<_MMA_> Too many parallel or really similar projects are diluting/fragmenting our development resources.
<_MMA_> Im actually in talks now with the guys at 64Studio about a merge. Part of my way to address this problem.
<kwwii> yeah, well, gnome came out and if you look at the best software, most of it is gtk based
<kwwii> my quote of the day is "the world does not make man, man makes the world"
<andreasn> kwwii: I like the fact that the first response to that e-mail was "thanks for reinventing the wheel moron, kde rocks!" :)
<kwwii> andreasn: you gotta love sarcasm :D
<andreasn> ie. the first gnome vs. kde flamewar post :)
<_MMA_> :)
<kwwii> I started getting into this quote of the day thing sitting on the toilet reading one of my wife's stupid women magazines
<kwwii> seemed like the perfect place to find enlightenment
<andreasn> anyway, I mean, both project are good and healthy and have a potential to bring free software to the masses
<kwwii> "and then, with a grunt, everything became clear"
<kwwii> andreasn: right, but there is no way in hell that they will ever join together in one project
<andreasn> yeah
<nothlit> i can only like one of the projects at once and hate the other =p
<kwwii> the technical issues alone are reason enough for the religous to stop if from ever happening
<nothlit> i'm sure its the same for many
<andreasn> and there are several car manufacturers, not only ford
<_MMA_> Well the simple Gnome or KDE choice for users I think is fine. KDE4 is gonna make things damn interesting though. (MMA is a Gnome guy)
<kwwii> well, anyone with half a brain knows that FVWM is the *best* of all desktops
<kwwii> funny enough, when I started with linux, fvwm really was the best
<_MMA_> I started with KDE and RedHat.
<_MMA_> RH6 I think.
<kwwii> I remember when suse decided to go with KDE and about half the company went "wtf?"
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> kwwii: Do you know how to jut a purely KDE4 setup on Gutsy now? ie: Starting from a CLI install than grabbing the needed packages.
<kwwii> _MMA_: I always just install kubuntu
<kwwii> and gimp and inkscape are a must for me
<nothlit> _MMA_: you can install kde-core or kde-base or kde iirc
<nothlit> depending on how large you want your installation
<_MMA_> nothlit: Well Im trying to get *just* whats needed for KDE4.
<nothlit> kde-core
<_MMA_> Most of the how-tos start with Kubuntu and add on top.
<nothlit> its the complete minimal, kde-base is the default set of stuff that comes with it and kde is everything
<_MMA_> That package will pull kde3 though.
<nothlit> oh kde4
* _MMA_ likes this mockup: http://www.kde-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/67060-1.jpg
<nothlit> doh
<nothlit> hmm
<_MMA_> :)
<nothlit> from what joejaxx has told me kde4 in gutsy is broken in the repos
<nothlit> i would suggest suse, it has a dailies repo =p
<kwwii> lol
* _MMA_ doubts the kiddies have even seen a real version of the clock in the screenshot above.
<kwwii> from what I have heard it is installable although because it is still pre-beta is does not work perfectly
<kwwii> and the plasmoids for the new kicker replacement are not really ready
<_MMA_> Yeah. Im just looking to take it for a drive.
<_MMA_> Hmm... http://home.kde.org/~binner/kde-four-live
<kwwii> screw suse ;-)
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> Well to try things out I dont mind.
<_MMA_> Just anything .rpm-based drives me nuts. Though this is a old gripe.
<kwwii> you can install just kde4, but I am not sure how
<kwwii> 15:36 < stdin> same instructions for feisty except it in gutsy/universe not feisty-backports/universe
<kwwii> now if I only knew how to update from feisty :p
<_MMA_> Sure but those instructions still use Kubuntu as a base. If I remember right.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Where's that wallpaper you were tinkering with? :)
<kwwii> _MMA_: I'll tweak a few more things and send you something a bit later
* kwwii has to cook lunch for the kid
<kwwii> bbiab
<_MMA_> np
<joejaxx> yeah kd4 is broken
<joejaxx> kde4*
<kwwii> joejaxx: from what I have heard it works as well as it should for a pre-beta
* kwwii updates feitsy->gutsy
<kwwii> bbl
<nothlit> has kde4 been frozen in gutsy? kde.org says they're on their second beta
<_MMA_> I dont know.
<_MMA_> I will say that live disk was very broken.
<_MMA_> kwwii: Still running Feisty? Wow. Lucky you. ;)
<kwwii> ;-)
<nothlit> lassegul: what happened?
<lassegul> nothlit: oh, sorry, my mouse was heading towards the corners of the screen, just like old optical mouses(mice?) did. Couldnt figure out what was wrong.
<lassegul> nothlit: so i rebooted.
<nothlit> np
<lassegul> its up again now.
<lassegul> nothlit: have you done anything new and interesting since last time we spoke?
<nothlit> i tweaked the gallery and created an example layout in the test deployment
<nothlit> and got some more features working, like the text proposal now has an image thumbnail :)
<lapo> hi
<lassegul> lapo: hi
<nothlit> https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnails/fire2.png
<lapo> nothlit: fire? what for?
<nothlit> orange and black :P
<nothlit> organic primal theme
<lapo> uhm... ok, but I'm not sure that fire (destruction) is something nice to communicate
<nothlit> destruction? its life giving! anyways lol, only a thumbnail =p
<lassegul> fire is one of humanitys greatest conquests.
<lassegul> :)
<lapo> true :-)
<lapo> even penicillin, let's draw rotten fruits! :-)
<lassegul> haha
<andreasn> uh? fire so kick penicillins ass
<andreasn> :)
<lapo> eheh
<andreasn> I'm not saying penicillin is a bad thing though
<nothlit> the wheel wins imo
<lapo> at least 4
<lapo> let's use a ferrari then
<lapo> it's "rosso corsa" so not exatly orange tho
<nothlit> trademarked
<lapo> oh fsck
<lapo> what about naked people?
<lapo> women possibly
<lapo> _MMA_: is there an ubuntustudio beta downloadable somewhere?
<_MMA_> lapo: We have dailies but the latest builds tasksel options are broken.
<_MMA_> So I would wait till tomorrow as it _should_ be fixed then.
<lapo> _MMA_: cool
<lapo> _MMA_: are there isos downloadable or just torrents? (my fscking isp caps p2p)
<troy_s> Hopefully the powers that be will avoid monochromatic.  Orange and black and ...
<troy_s> at the very least.
<_MMA_> lapo: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/
<lapo> cool thanks
<lapo> tomorrow I'll download it
<troy_s> it would probably be a bit of a sin to jettison brown altogether though.  ideally it would be lovely to keep an homage to the brown within the fresher take... but that is just 2 pennies.
<lapo> I have no opinions yet
<lapo> black is a bit of a trend latelly tho
<kwwii> so, after talking to my friend who does *-look.org he suggest using something like www.ubuntu-art.org (which is also his site)
<kwwii> troy_s: no worries I am sure we can have black and orange and light orange :p
* kwwii ducks
<nothlit> oh lol
<troy_s> kwwii: Exactly.  Lol.
<nothlit> they got tired of all the ubuntu art filling up gnome-look huh?
<troy_s> kwwii: Monochrome with the added new colour of BLACK!  Woop.
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> actually, I was thinking about colors today...black, orange and yellow as primary with some lighter greens and blues for secondary colors
<kwwii> I think that when sabdfl says black and orange he means that when he looks at the desktop and squints his eyes that is the impression he wants to get
<nothlit> if theres a repository for 3rd part ubuntu art already, we don't really need to fill that gap i suppose
<kwwii> that does not mean that we cannot or should not use other colors
<troy_s> kwwii: If you keep with the homage -- the orange should probably deteriorate to a nice brown, then pull the compliment.  Analogous colours are all used in the logo -- which is one of the reasons it might be nice to avoid that orange (and the logo too, by matter of coincidence, is all analogous)
<kwwii> there are a lot of places to use color
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, that is why I never liked using the logo on the wallpaper
<kwwii> I have purposely tried to stay away from brown though...not sure how well that will work in the end
<troy_s> kwwii: It is a tricky goal as that blasted logo orange will almost always be assumed the orange.
<troy_s> kwwii: By brown -- the most convincing hues that I suspect sabdfl (and perhaps you) are referring to for those gradients that deliver the vista black to 'gemlike' glows are analogous crawls -- as opposed to what many would assume are monochromatic gradients.  I would need to find an example to demo the hue shifts.
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, when playing around I found that by desaturating it quite a bit and adding a good touch of green to the yellow things at least seemed different
<troy_s> kwwii: Also, I wonder how much outcry there would be if the brown went poof with no trail.
<kwwii> yeah, I can now see people screaming that they miss the brown twice as much as they screamed that the brown needs to go
<troy_s> absolutely
<troy_s> again -- the execution of brown has been beyond sub standard
<troy_s> and as such, the brown complaints are almost certainly from the ineffective use of colour -- that nasty trench of monochromatic tones without even a decent level of value contrast.
<troy_s> that said, I would say that brown has become the family, and it is something to consider with a less than fickle amount of attention.
<troy_s> kwwii: And I do believe that if you read the evolution of the press re the brown -- you will see that most people have developed a very mature response to it, many times citing that the execution is flawed rather than the colour itself.
<nothlit> the press has commented on the brown?
<kwwii> yeah, people have come to see the brown as a good part of the branding
* kwwii cooks dinner for the family
<troy_s> kwwii: http://imagebin.ca/view/MFFnbF.html
<troy_s> kwwii: Extremely hastily done sample.
<troy_s> kwwii: Going 'thru' brown can easily work -- and at the very least -- the non monochromatic gradients yield far superior results (even if my hasty quick attempt doesn't quite show it off as well as it should)
<troy_s> top there obviously is a monochromatic grad.
<troy_s> bottom goes through five hues
<troy_s> with brown occupying a good percentage.
<thorwil> troy_s: bottom looks more and brighter orange. top looks more brown to me overall
<troy_s> thorwil: Well you would be wrong.
<thorwil> troy_s: no i would not. it's my display and my perception ;)
<troy_s> thorwil: The bottom actually uses a more standard paint cheat and in fact, uses a solid hue of brown.  The net result is that it sells that 'gem' gradient.
<troy_s> thorwil: In this case, i would suggest not that your 'impression' of orange is wrong, but the simple fact that the top has no brown aside from what one might consider a value decreased orange (which doesn't look much like brown at all) whereas the bottom goes through a distinct hue of brown.
<troy_s> (and some rather kludgy quick work between one of the steps of the gradient that I didn't bother to patch -- lol)
<thorwil> troy_s: cool if you can keep a value decreased orange apart from brown. i surely can't
<troy_s> it ends up a dirty orange.  to get closer to a brown you would need to twiddle that saturation and shift the hue a little more to red.
<troy_s> and of course, the black isn't black in the lower one -- it is a completely valued and shifted deriv of the bronw.
<troy_s> brown even.
<thorwil> troy_s: you should sample some values with the colour picker. you will see there's not that much difference in the upper parts
<thorwil> troy_s: and if you put the lower image above the upper and set layer mode to difference, you will see the difference is on the bottom, and most is almost black (=subtle difference)
<thorwil> troy_s: so sorry, but i think you have been mislead by what you would like to see
<troy_s> lol
<kwwii> re
<kwwii> troy_s: man, that is really close to the colors that I used in the mobile stuff
<kwwii> and exactly where we want to go I think
<troy_s> kwwii: I would try to flip the highlight to the exact compliment
<troy_s> but it is damn tricky guessing with the wheel.
<kwwii> add a nice lighter green and blue series for some text, etc and it would be awesome
<kwwii> I was playing with agave but that seems pretty ahrd
<kwwii> hard
<troy_s> kwwii: Well yeah... there was some work a while ago that I was using as the basis for an Ubuntu "nox"
<troy_s> let me see if I can find it again...
<troy_s> it is pretty simple colour theory -- the gem orange and  a gem blue.
<troy_s> let me pull the pic from the designers site
<nothlit> `/win 35
<troy_s> kwwii: http://workforfood.nu -- the guy is quite brilliant.  Novo Marea
<troy_s> kwwii: Scroll down -- great use of compliments and some very good work with the hue shifts.
<nothlit> best site ever ^ everybody go see =p
<lassegul> wow.
<kwwii> I waas amazed when doing the mobile stuff how well a greenish yellow worked with the orange to red-brown
<troy_s> there is some interesting work in the deep of the "Chip Dance" campaign -- notably the use of clouds in the deep bg.
<kwwii> oh wow, that is amazing
<lassegul> what about the Kaiser one? I like that one.
<troy_s> lassegul: As I said, he has done some amazing work.  That said, when kwwii was suggesting the black depth to orange, the Nox idea came back quickly.
<troy_s> and the reference material for that -- of which this was one of the elements I could remember.
<troy_s> and there are some pretty radical hue shifts in the 'orange feel' on those
<kwwii> watching this distro upgrade tool run is simply too much stress for me
<kwwii> yeah, very nice and subtle work
<kwwii> that shows what you can really do with color
<troy_s> my worry is that sabdfl is thinking vista
<lassegul> that would be bad.
<troy_s> as in the vista gem tone on everything.
<kwwii> oh, I realized when doing the mobile stuff that he has little understanding of color
<kwwii> we kinda got into a fight about that and I showed him where he was wrong, so he stopped commenting and in the end he was happy with the result
<kwwii> heck, I realized that I still have a lot to learn about the subtle interactions of color
<nothlit> did you sample colours directly from that ad?
<troy_s> nothlit: ?
<troy_s> nothlit: For mobile?
<nothlit> yeah
<kwwii> I never saw that page before
<kwwii> but looking at it I realize that I want to use some of that as examples for Harddy
<kwwii> Hardy
<kwwii> the Hardy Hard-on
<kwwii> oops. did I say that out loud?
<kwwii> Hardy Har-Har
<_MMA_> :D
<troy_s> kwwii: I think he was referring to the page rip sabdfl shipped.
<kwwii> ahhh, now I get it
<kwwii> nothlit: I tried to sample a bit but found that that did not work and ended up playing with slight variations
<kwwii> the stuff I sampled sabdfl did not like
<kwwii> neither did I really
<kwwii> but it was really hard to discuss it with him
<kwwii> so I just did what I thought was best and pushed it through, in the end it worked well
<kwwii> I see Hardy as the first chance to really change things, if we can only learn to do it in the right way
<kwwii> I had hoped to do more for Gutsy but was proven wrong by extra work and simply not knowing how to go about it without pissing on you-know-who
<andreasn> voldemort? :)
<andreasn> ;)
<kwwii> lol, exactly
<kwwii> " old voldemort has been giving me hell again"
<kwwii> that will be the secret phrase for "don't blame me"
<nothlit> oh lol, you know who was intentional
<kwwii> and "running in place" is the secret phrase for intel
<joejaxx> lol
<kwwii> I have never seen a company that can put so many people on a project and get nothing done other than covering each other's asses
<nothlit> what about the government
<kwwii> nothlit: the government does not have enough money to put that many people on one project
<nothlit> ehem, iraq
<kwwii> worst of all, the boss of them all is a old friend of mine and when I told him that he basically told me that "this is standard working practice"
<kwwii> no wonder he officialy quit kde when he started at intel
<kwwii> god forbid any of that rubs off
<thorwil> butterflies as palette source? http://www.thurisblumenau.ch/images/content/Schmetterling-2_gelb-schwarz.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/b/bc/Admiral_(schmetterling).jpg/300px-Admiral_(schmetterling).jpg  http://www.steiniges.net/4images/data/media/42/Schmetterling%20-%20kleiner%20Fuchs.jpg
<kwwii> thorwil: nicht schlecht - gute anfang
<thorwil> :)
<thorwil> heh, i have fans: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=563909
<thorwil> and shortly after i read about the new orange/black direction ...
<kwwii> you gotta love that forum
<_MMA_> No I dont.
<_MMA_> ;)
<nothlit> thorwil: thats pretty snazzy
<thorwil> nothlit: thanks!
<kwwii> _MMA_: yes you do or they will roast you
<kwwii> maybe we should just have a wallpaper with #202020 and a big white text saying "click here to select a wallpaper"
<robin> prew
<thorwil> kwwii: cue complaints about the default back and text colour ... :)
<kwwii> thorwil: and the font and wallpaper selection tool, and, and, and
<kwwii> I wish we could somehow create a set of SVGs which one could change the palette of without breaking things and then have a selection box during install asking "which of these colors do you like the most?"
<nothlit> should be scriptable
<kwwii> I should make a spec for that
<kwwii> "what is your favorite color" selector at installation
<thorwil> doesn't sit well with keeping interaction on installing straight to the point. and with all the colours needed for icons and such, it's too hard to make the base colour selectable and still make everything look good in context. i think.
<kwwii> that is why you could only offer a selection of colors and not just any color
<kwwii> but if we had a good full palette and a whole system of scripts and SVGs to do it the right way it could possibly work
<kwwii> but it would be a butt-load of work
<kwwii> and updating it every release would be hell
<kwwii> and funny enough we would still get lots of complaints
<kwwii> even if we asked 10 very specific questions people would complain because most do not really know exactly what they wnat
<thorwil> but they'll know when they see it ;)
<vorticon> does anyone know how to play .ram files under ubuntu?
<nothlit> ubotu: tell vorticon about restricted
<vorticon> ah :)
<kwwii> download mplayer sources and ./configure, make, make install
<nothlit> nah you still need w32codecs
<kwwii> ubotu: hello?
<ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about hello? - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
<kwwii> ubotu: restricted codecs
<kwwii> lol
<nothlit> kwwii: tell uses a pm
<kwwii> yeah just saw that
<thorwil> good night!
<kwwii> night
<kwwii> ubotu: restricted
<ubotu> For multimedia issues, this page has useful information: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats - See also http://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/common-tasks-chap.html - But please use free formats if you can: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeFormats
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-05
<troy_s> well now that the wonderful fun of Gutsy's turmoil has subsided, our numbers return to normal.
<lassegul> Good morning everybody!
<kwwii> not so sure if it is good
<lassegul> why not?
<kwwii> my version upgrade did not go so well last night
<kwwii> still trying to figure things out
<lassegul> :S
<kwwii> so no email in the meantime
<lassegul> No e-mail?
<kwwii> nope
<kwwii> doesn't work anymore
<kwwii> going to go and try to figure something out...bbl
<artnay> openSUSE 10.3 - http://news.opensuse.org/?p=400 at least the artwork is decent x)
<lassegul> lol #ubuntu is chaos. <user1> How do i remove the ubuntu viruz?  <user2> Why doesnt the Office07 installer work?
<kwwii> good morning mr mma
<_MMA_> Yo. :)
<_MMA_> 4.5hrs sleep. Yay!
<lassegul> kwwii: im sorry I woke you last night btw.
<lassegul> hi _MMA_
<_MMA_> ello.
<_MMA_> lassegul: Ive made a couple of updates you might wanna steal. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming
<kwwii> lassegul: it is all your fault :p
<lassegul> _MMA_: we will steal this from you. Be prepared
<_MMA_> ;)
<lassegul> kwwii: i figured you would have set away if you was away
<lassegul> kwwii: nothlit was going on on how stealthy he was on google, and that noone knew his name etc.
<lassegul> kwwii: and I was planning to freak him out with asking you, since you know because of the uds application.
<kwwii> :p
<nothlit> lol, being ungoogleable is a good thing
<kwwii> his real name is Herman
<kwwii> just kidding
<nothlit> oh nos! you found me out
<nothlit> you'd prolly find out at uds anyways lasse, rofl
<lassegul> so, are we still sleeping on the hotel lawn, or have canonical found a solution?
<_MMA_> nothlit: Are you going?
<nothlit> _MMA_: if canonical figures out what do with not having enough hotel rooms
<_MMA_> Oh yeah. I did hear about that.
<lassegul> but there wont be a problem cause kwwii and nothlit will be sharing beds.
<lassegul> =P
<_MMA_> :)
<nothlit> *ahem*, as nice as kwwii is i would prefer not to have a bedfellow
<_MMA_> nothlit: Oh come on? You can bed with me. :) (as MMA circles his bellybutton with his finger.)
<lassegul> :-(
<nothlit> you two are weirdos =p
<LDS_Trooper> What direction/look or feel is under discussion for "Hardy Heron" ??
<andreasn> sexy chicks and hot cars! ;)
<LDS_Trooper> lol
* andreasn wonders what would happen if a distro actually took that direction
<nothlit> a lot of young males would end up using it and nobody else
* andreasn could clearly see a audience for it
<andreasn> isn't that already like 95% of our users?
<andreasn> :)
<LDS_Trooper> OK so any serious thought on a direction for the design?
<LDS_Trooper> =)
<lassegul> LDS_Trooper: Its not definite yet, but there is going to be something with black and orange.
<LDS_Trooper> sweet colors...
<LDS_Trooper> Easy to work with
<lassegul> LDS_Trooper: but it may also include other colours.
<LDS_Trooper> ok
<LDS_Trooper> off topic question.. anyone here use Ubuntu Linux?
<LDS_Trooper> lol
<lassegul> blubuntu lunix?
<nothlit> i honestly don't
<LDS_Trooper> seriously.. I am interested in purchasing a hand held but I am not sure which is most compatible with Ubuntu
<nothlit> hand held?
<lassegul> PDA thingy?
<LDS_Trooper> So far all of the Palm Pilot stuff says they need win or mac
<LDS_Trooper> yep PDA
<lassegul> I think palm has pretty good linux support.
<LDS_Trooper> I think I will call them and ask
<LDS_Trooper> brb
<lassegul> LDS_Trooper: i dont think youll get an asnwer that way
<lassegul> LDS_Trooper: they probably wouldnt know what you were talking about.
<LDS_Trooper> No?
<lassegul> LDS_Trooper: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=palm+ubuntu&spell=1
<lassegul> :)
<LDS_Trooper> Need to run for a meeting. Thanks for all the help! When will the color palette be decided on?
<LDS_Trooper> Ok sorry, need to run.
<nothlit> for anyone who doesn't know this is the latest in the art direction https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KennethWimer/Ideas
<troy_s> * andreasn wonders what would happen if a distro actually took that direction -- It would certainly be successful for an alternate theme assuming you could keep it in the realm of hot rod car magazines and not into smut.  Probably a reasonable sized audience too (albeit in that 16-21 male core).
<troy_s> lol.
<andreasn> hm, bundling it with hot rod magazines sounds like a great idea! Yay! I'm going to be rich! ;)
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> andreasn: There most certainly is a cool overarching look and feel to a 1960s hot rod schema.  You might snag a few extremely satisfied 30plus somethings in a nostalgia effort.
<andreasn> heh, yeah
* andreasn imagines his father would like that stuff
<andreasn> as long as he could play freecell, and check out bikes on the net
<nothlit> btw, anyone looking for inspiration, 1000 self portraits in 1000 days http://www.conceptart.org/artist/andrew-jones/images/1000_sp/1000_sp_1500px_web.jpg -- fullsizes http://www.conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9&page=13&pp=75&sort=dateline&order=desc&daysprune=-1
<troy_s> andreasn: Your father and a sizable percentage of other folks -- depending on how gender neutral you could pull it.
<_MMA_> Hmm... car idea is neat. Maybe I can draw something from this pic I took. http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2048/dscf3084xr1.jpg
<troy_s> That's where it is at.  Although two toned baby!
<troy_s> You can't do a nostalgic automobile theme without hitting on that two tone.
<_MMA_> I have more of that one. It was actually a orange primer.
<troy_s> _MMA_: That flat look is pretty cool too.  Duster's briefly reused it.  In "A Series of Unfortunate Events" Carrey's retro-modern car was a rather interesting flat tone.
<_MMA_> Its a common trend now. Its gone so far now as to actually make cars look rusted, Primer showing through faded paint look and such. But they still run like a champ. Ive seen some cool ones.
<troy_s> kwwii: " * The Usplash does not have resolutions for all monitor sizes" -- usplash is _still_ broken with regards to widescreen monitor detection.  Maybe you can give that one a kick in the a*s and see if anyone actually cares?
<_MMA_> Yes.+1 on that.
<troy_s> kwwii: As in the ever long standing (longer than the bug too) bug 64147
<ubotu> Launchpad bug 64147 in usplash "ubuntu splash logo stretched on non-4:3/16:9 displays" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/64147
<troy_s> Although it seems that some of the people just don't quite get it -- usplash is _broken_.  tonic-pushcart has much more information than I on it.
<kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I was talking to others at canonical about either getting someone to work on the usplash or replacing it
<_MMA_> Isnt Usplash Seveas's thing?
<Seveas> it is
<Seveas> partially
<_MMA_> Hi sir.
<kwwii> hi Seveas
<Seveas> usplash doesn't need to be replaced, it needs to be fixed
<Seveas> the resolution thing is only a minor issue
<Seveas> the more difficult problems are proper input, cancellable fsck and whatnot
<Seveas> I've been working on input and theming, will land early in hardy
<_MMA_> Seveas: And who can we bribe to give it some love for Hardy? :)
<_MMA_> :)
<Seveas> I'll be tackling better resolution support later, probably for hardy
<_MMA_> Nice
<troy_s> Seveas: Awsome to hear.
<troy_s> Seveas: Is the resolution issue fixable?
<Seveas> yes
<Seveas> you can help me by making background images for the resolutions you want for hardy
<Seveas> I'll be testing with 800x600 and 1280x800
<Seveas> I'll probably drop 1024x768
<Seveas> unless I find an efficient way to support many resolutions
<troy_s> Seveas: This is done. The theme has widescreen development versions, but they never are selected.
<troy_s> Seveas: It stems from some lower level usplash (or svga lib?) issue?
<_MMA_> Seveas: Well I design wallpapers up to 2560x1600. Thats covers 30" 16:10 LCDs. I would guess (but hope not) that too high for what you're thinking for Usplash.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Actually, I don't think there are limits.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Aside from bloating the resultant theme library that you plop onto the system.
<Seveas> troy_s, usplash issue probably
<troy_s> _MMA_: The idea being that usplash provides xx number of themes, and it chooses the closest.
<troy_s> Seveas: It is well known apparently -- our resident usplash expert tonic knew about it from ages ago.
<Seveas> troy_s, there are limits
<Seveas> usplash works with svga modes
<troy_s> Seveas: I _think_ the general accepted bug trail is 64147
<Seveas> by scaling images it emulates widescreen
<troy_s> Seveas: yeah, but when a widescreen is provided, it is _never_ selected.
<troy_s> Seveas: Which I believe is the underlying problem.
<troy_s> Seveas: In fact, tonic and myself as well as a about 10 testers were unable to _ever_ get a widescreen usplash selected by the lib.
<Seveas> troy_s, that's because pc widescreen is closer to 4:3 than 16:9
<Seveas> and it only looks at those currently
<troy_s> ???
<_MMA_> troy_s: Well being able to set the background color to something other than black would help. ie: you could create an image smaller than 2560x1600 but still have the scale look right.
<troy_s> _MMA_: You can.
<troy_s> _MMA_: We have white for example.
<troy_s> Seveas: Explain further?
<Seveas> anyway, gotta go now (birthday party)
<troy_s> Seveas: Ok...
<troy_s> Seveas: If you find time, could you explain it to me further later?
<_MMA_> troy_s: Really? I saw the shots but didnt know you set the background.
<troy_s> Seveas: As it is we provide a 16x9 but it never selects it -- perhaps it is a resolution thing?
<troy_s> _MMA_: of Usplash?
<_MMA_> 16:10 is more common.
<troy_s> _MMA_: The background is white.
<_MMA_> Yeah. :)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Bah -- 1680x1050 is a standard
<troy_s> Anyways, even close would be great.
<troy_s> Have it choose _any_ widescreen instead of never would be a win.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Have you seen it in action yet?
<_MMA_> 1680x1050=16:10
<_MMA_> troy_s: No. I havnt seen it run yet.
<_MMA_> Ive been waiting to test disks for Joe.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Point is that 16x9 should probably flip in.  And it doesn't.
<_MMA_> Sure.
<_MMA_> I just wonder if "Seveas: troy_s, that's because pc widescreen is closer to 4:3 than 16:9" rules out people with the more common 16:10 screens. Which I would guess what your testers have.
<_MMA_> Im just spit-ballin'.
<_MMA_> Dont know how hard-n-fast the Usplash rules are.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yeah, but I wouldn't understand that.  I would think that it would / SHOULD use an aspect ratio
<troy_s> as in over say, 1.5 it goes wide
<troy_s> and under it goes standard
<_MMA_> Sure.
<_MMA_> I guess we'll just have to talk more to Seveas.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yes.  Although the ratio should probably be 1/x to avoid ugly repeaters.
<troy_s> so probably anything under say, .65 would be widescreen.
<troy_s> I wonder what piece of code that is in...
<troy_s> I suppose we should look at it.
<nothlit> krita 2 devel looks exciting http://thedarkmaster.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/mixer_perfect.png
<lassegul> kwwii: do you mind checking something for us?
<lassegul> us being nothlit and me
<kwwii> re
<kwwii> sure, url?
<nothlit> kwwii: https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/text/MainPage.txt
<nothlit> we think its ready to upload, we want your a ok
<kwwii> wow, that looks pretty good to me
<lassegul> nothlit is responsible, he has wiki skills.
<lassegul> :P
<kwwii> troy_s: can you check that and give me your opinion?
<nothlit> lol, lassegul typed a good portion of it too
<nothlit> hes making the platypus artwork
<kwwii> nahhh, he is a faulpelz :p
<lassegul> :)
<nothlit> the guidelines are a bit long, we can put them into a seperate page, but its useful to force people to pass by them each time too
<troy_s> Woot... almot finished Platypus!
<troy_s> almost even.
<kwwii> yeah, I think it is a good idea to keep them on the main page
<lassegul> nothlit: you are really fast
<nothlit> lassegul: what did i do now
<lassegul> nothlit: in general
<nothlit> lassegul: lol, you said that already =p
<nothlit> i've just used the wiki before
<troy_s> Actually, I was playing around with heron colours and ended up revisiting solar with something more akin to where I would have liked to have taken it if we weren't trapped in monochromatic hell.
<kwwii> if nobody here has any improvements I think it is safe to go live with that
<troy_s> put it up and see what it ends up like
<troy_s> that's about all you can do.
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> lassegul, nothlit: go for it
<troy_s> bear in mind that the average seconds per page is about 8 seconds iirc.  I guess that means make it scannable in 8 seconds.
<troy_s> (more or less)
<lassegul> heres some artwork for the upcoming platypus concept. http://lassegs.ath.cx/stuff/platypusafraidthumb.png
<nothlit> its up
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> lassegul: I see spring up on imagebin.
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> funny...
<lassegul> troy_s: spring or platypus
<troy_s> Why is it funny?  http://imagebin.ca/view/Uu06i0N4.html
<kwwii> lol
<troy_s> Working with those black and brown -> orange hues.
<nothlit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork
<lassegul> troy_s: i was showing nothlit how i made this a month ago, and the only version I actually liked a little, before I got lost.
<kwwii> troy_s: wow, good start
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> very funny...
<lassegul> thats smooth.
<troy_s> it just cracked me up as I was perusing on over I went 'hey...'
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> kwwii: It isn't anything more than an attempt to get the tonal ranges somewhere in a ballpark without using generic bland square / circle gradients.
<troy_s> lassegul: Those spline curves are more polished than the last time I saw it.
<kwwii> troy_s: I like the colors you used, there is a bit of blue in the "planet" or?
<lassegul> troy_s: no, they just look better with black
<troy_s> kwwii: A good dose of blue really.
<nothlit> lol, you're far more restrained than i https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnails/sketch5.png https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnails/fire2.png
<troy_s> lassegul: Maybe I am misremembering things.
<troy_s> nothlit: I am just factoring in the uber-conservativeness with a personal belief that the 'looming' feel is better sparse.
* kwwii is off for the evening, probably check back in later
<troy_s> nacht
<lassegul> see you.
<nothlit> cyas
<nothlit> so noone thinks the new page is a bit too long?
<thorwil> i think the length is ok
<lassegul> nothlit: im afraid you might be right.
<troy_s> nothlit: I would always vote for too long.
<troy_s> nothlit: Remember - you have 8 seconds.
<troy_s> (or fit the whole thing on a page)
<lassegul> what should we cut out?
<lassegul> or outsource?
<nothlit> yeah, i'll squeeze it down later
<troy_s> lassegul: Pretty simple.  Use Einstein's rule -- make things as simple as they must be, but no simpler.
<troy_s> lassegul: Distill it down to only exactly what it needs to say.
<lassegul> troy_s: thats simple
<troy_s> nothing more.
<troy_s> And hopefully you can make it scannable -- ToC and headings would probably help that out.
<thorwil> toc on the right is a bit odd. one will have started reading before seeing that. but that's a wiki stylesheet thing, i guess?
<troy_s> Seems that several of those should be individual pages.
<troy_s> thorwil: ToC on the right is based on the generic pages from the wiki that are more well laid out.
<troy_s> thorwil: It is consistent with the more well used pages. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats for example.
<lassegul> i think also subpages should be more accesable but theres nothing we can do about that either.
<troy_s> lassegul: I would probably agree -- move those to the floater with the ToC.
<troy_s> The bottom is rather useless.
<lassegul> troy_s: but that doesnt fit in with other wiki pages.
<thorwil> troy_s: feels much better on that site. maybe just because the first paragraph follows directly without a 2nd level headline
<troy_s> lassegul: Yep.  I suppose it is a minor enough detail that it could be relocated somewhere more visible.
<lassegul> that would make it much more friendly
<troy_s> thorwil: Sure.
<thorwil> how about dropping the "Ubuntu Artwork" headline?
<troy_s> thorwil: It is redundant, but again, I think that is a first draft.  I would suggest there are several elements that need to be dropped or relocated to 2ndary pages.
<thorwil> troy_s: sure :)
<nothlit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork edit
<nothlit> i don't know what one page is on 1024x768
<thorwil> it's no business/ad site but a wiki. so i wouldn't get worked up about the fold ;)
<lassegul> now its getting somewhere.
<thorwil> links on a single line are harder to scan than as vertical lists, though
<thorwil> The first paragraph mentions the Artwork Team out of nothing, while the section heading claims it's General Information
<thorwil> ^ being picky there
<nothlit> thorwil: see if the links are acceptable to you now
<thorwil> nothlit: that helps :)
<troy_s> logo and pill etc seem out of place
<_MMA_> nothlit: "If your artwork has other peoples art in it" might sound better as: "If your submission contains another's work" or "If your submission contains work that is not your own".
<troy_s> nothlit: If you want a link to official, label it as such.
<lassegul> _MMA_: youre right. my bad.
<_MMA_> np. :)
<thorwil> nite!
<nothlit> the official heading was taking up space lol =/
<troy_s> nothlit: Yeah but if it needs to be on the first page, then so be it.  Official = all official related artwork located at [linktoofficial] 
<nothlit> i've just placed it on the bottom between two horizontal rules
<lapo> hi
* _MMA_ waves.
<lapo> ciao _MMA_
<lapo> _MMA_: is the beta in an usable state now?
<_MMA_> Well we had to do change how tasksel worked. So after testing the next build I can let you know.
<lapo> ok, thanks
<nothlit> wow, this has nice linework http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448773
<_MMA_> troy_s: I'm unsure of this but its what I have so far. http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/9690/palettetg6.png
<troy_s> _MMA_: How does it look panelling across the back of some photocopied band members etc?  I would still experiment with a desat and a darken on the base blue
<troy_s> _MMA_: Just to see if it gets more 'printlike'
<troy_s> _MMA_: That green could be pretty good with that blue too.
<_MMA_> Yeah. Agreed.
<_MMA_> Ill grab some photos and throw the color over them to see how it goes.
<_MMA_> Some "photocopied" photos.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Try something in the 3c8cbd zone for a desat
<troy_s> yep.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Try grabbing a high contrast photo of your choosing (a face or someone yelling or what have you)
<troy_s> _MMA_: And if it is of high contrast -- do a trace and strip out the bg -- a single tone trace.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Then lay panels of colours in form behind it...
<_MMA_> Sure. Like I did the lick of the Marshall cabinet.
<troy_s> _MMA_: It will give you a better feeling for the colours in a contextual environment -- it is way impossible to stare at colours outside of their context.
<troy_s> yep
<troy_s> _MMA_: Here... I have a high contrast shot off the video that might work... punkish looking.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Catch this... there are many layers there to fart with.
<_MMA_> ok.
<nothlit> layers? is it an adobe premier/aftereffects file or something?
<_MMA_> Or .svg. ;)
<troy_s> nothlit: Uh no.
<_MMA_> lol
<troy_s> Catch that.
<nothlit> oh, you potraced a still?
<troy_s> All grey and such... just try swatching some stuffs in there.
<_MMA_> Man. Its been so long since I was really active in all this. Makes me feel good. After UDS I hope to really crank out some work.
<troy_s> nothlit: Yes a couple.
<troy_s> from greenscreen (i hate shooting greenscreen)
<_MMA_> troy_s: Who is that?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Have you heard of an industrial band called Frontline Assembly?
<_MMA_> Oh hell yea!
<troy_s> _MMA_: That is the lead singer of a fork project from a couple of the members.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Two of the members of Frontline and one member of Black Halos
<andreasn> what about Delerium then?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Forked off to do some industrial / punk type stuff but with a more mainstream twist.  Rather close to Nine Inch Nails meets Korn (somewhere in that zone).
<troy_s> Delerium?
<andreasn> yeah, those were also connected to FLA in some way I think
<troy_s> Ahh yes.
<troy_s> Yes... something like that.
<troy_s> It is weird how many people know of Frontline Assembly... very strange.
<troy_s> I always thought they were so far underground that they might as well be dead... but apparently that isn't the case.
<troy_s> There are murmurs of a potential video project for them on the horizon... but we shall see what happens.
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> Man. This style of mine is gonna make the iconset damn hard to do. Im gonna lose wedderburn over this.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Anyways, it is just handy junk to play with your palette tests.  Try sticking strips in there.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Lol.
<_MMA_> Its gonna end up like Huw.
<troy_s> _MMA_: If you can keep to that very borderline kodalith image feeling with a nice splash of a couple compliments -- I think it will end up damn distinct.
<_MMA_> He didnt get it either.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Bah.  Anyone with half a lobe should have more than enough information to start experimenting with.
<andreasn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delerium
<troy_s> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Inkel is one of the band members.
<_MMA_> troy_s: I just fear "distinct" will equal "offputting" to most.
<andreasn> _MMA_ is the icon set worth styling then, perhaps better to focus on other stuff and threat the icons as just interfaces?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Everything new is offputting.  If you intend to attract creative folks, making a clearly creative decision shouldn't hurt.
<_MMA_> Sure.
<troy_s> _MMA_: In the end, you need to front money if you are going to try and gamble.
<troy_s> nothing ventured, nothing gained.
<troy_s> it depends too -- if it ends up a half-assing to try and make it one part DIY and one part 'acceptable to the guys who use Foresight linux' then it will probably be a gah.
<_MMA_> andreasn: In that case then, I'll need to find a set to use and I honestly dont know of one off-hand that fits.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Perhaps only worry about a core set -- like 10?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Hell... the visibility of the default folder is enough to translate.
<lapo> _MMA_: doing a basic icon set which inherits gnome icon theme should be easy anough
<_MMA_> troy_s: LOL. No. Thats not gonna happen. ;) Though I know its creator personally. He likes our new idea but is staying with the gloss. Even asked for the svg on our Feisty Gnome-splash.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Shocker.  Diversity is good.  It is like looking out on a road and everyone wanting to drive the same model and colour of car.  Silly foolishness from our darkages.
<lapo> _MMA_: just the folder (and derived) + some other bits, like navigation arrows and some hw devices
<troy_s> +1 to lapo on that one.
<_MMA_> Yeah. A "core" set isnt an issue. I think any set I could inherit would also stand out too much.
<troy_s> _MMA_: It would be quite an interesting exploration of icon land... lol.  I don't even know where one would start by throwing a dart...
<_MMA_> Totally.
<troy_s> _MMA_: I suppose something like a black and a grey form on top of a wedge of colour or something akin to that...
<troy_s> _MMA_: Iconfactory often has some great starting points.
<troy_s> WOW speaking of which...
<lapo> troy_s: fsck, I always need a dictionary near me to read you! :-)
<troy_s> Check out their current look.
<_MMA_> Yeah. I have a couple of place Im gonna look. Thats one.
* _MMA_ looks.
<troy_s> lapo: Language.  Lol.  I'm sorry -- I am one of those ignorant bloody 'guys who can only speak English'
<lapo> troy_s: A bloody difficult english even :-)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Something (minus the obvious 1990 gem crap) http://iconfactory.com/freeware/preview/iph3
<troy_s> would suffice for a shape / form?
<andreasn> heh, great halloween design
<troy_s> woot -- the litho set rocks... and now there is a halloween pack... http://iconfactory.com/freeware/preview/liha
<troy_s> in fact _MMA_ litho would be a great starting point too.
<lapo> ugh, unusable
<troy_s> http://iconfactory.com/freeware/preview/lith
<lapo> good luck building a full set based on that design tho
<troy_s> lapo: shup
<troy_s> lapo: Would seem more important to have something that matches the overall aesthetic of a design for a few core than to worry about a full set.
<_MMA_> God I wish I could hire Mattahan. http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/46201-1.jpg
<nothlit`alpha> wtheck, that iphonica was released this august
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yeah crud is amazing stuff.
<lapo> troy_s: worry about the full set naturally
<troy_s> _MMA_: I chatted with him... he is actually open to doing some work too.
<lapo> troy_s: since just a bunch of icons in way and all the rest as a mishmesh is just bad
<lapo> and not even graphically appealing
<_MMA_> Wow. Litho is nice.
<troy_s> lapo: If a full set is bad too... what is the point of the exercise?
<troy_s> :)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yeah and there are a few extras...
<lapo> you don't stare at the an emty desktop, but you tend to use stuff like....uhm applications
<troy_s> http://iconfactory.com/freeware/preview/lit1
<troy_s> http://iconfactory.com/freeware/preview/lit2
<troy_s> http://iconfactory.com/freeware/preview/lit3
<troy_s> etc
<troy_s> _MMA_: I chatted with that guy and he says he was absolutely blown away by how successful his lit set was.  I guess that's why he has created so many more.
<troy_s> _MMA_: I believe http://onebuttonmouse.com/ is his homepage.
<_MMA_> Se my pickle also is, creating a new set of icons every six months is a PITA. I gotta see if we can keep a look over 2 releases or so.
<_MMA_> *See
<troy_s> http://onebuttonmouse.com/icons/lithosystem/
<troy_s> _MMA_: Absolutely... and that's even with a good rut of folks to crank out work.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Im gonna email him.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Maybe get lith under a license and snag the svg exports.
<troy_s> ;)
<troy_s> lol
<_MMA_> Yep. Im hoping the concept we have will snag him.
<troy_s> _MMA_: He is a damn busy guy -- so you won't get any work out of him.  But you might be able to negotiate some sort of license.  Who knows... you wouldn't know unless you ask.
* _MMA_ goes to put on "The Great Muppet Caper" for the kids.
<troy_s> <lapo> you don't stare at the an emty desktop, but you tend to use stuff like....uhm applications
<troy_s> Still don't get it.
<_MMA_> And I certainly have no problems asking people. ;)
<lapo> troy_s: I mean that if you do something radicall with icons you'll get an half assed ui
<lapo> since every application as it's own icon styl
<lapo> e
<troy_s> So what... and you can't control how some devs develop applications either... so be it.
<lapo> troy_s: nope, but sice looks like there a lot adoption for tango style doing something else will not give you nice results
<troy_s> That kind of Gesamtkunstwerk can't really be hoped for anyways... you might as well carry on worrying about button layouts and such...
<lapo> yes you're creative and you have an half assed user experience
<lapo> I'm kinda bored of doing icon tango style as well, but it's just the predominant style
<troy_s> There are a whole lot of people who could give a rats ass about minor details as long as the bigger picture reflects some value to them.
<lapo> if everybody keeps playing in his sand box linux desktop will never be good
<troy_s> Well when you find out what 'good' is... let me know.
<lapo> troy_s: a polished product is good
<troy_s> lapo: More relative terms.  What is polished?  Consistent in the name of consistency's sake?
<lapo> having a mishmash of stuff will not gice you a polished product
<lapo> troy_s: osx is a polished product, you can criticize the style they used but they used it all over the place
<lapo> every applkication bahaves in the same way
<lapo> quicker learning curve, less confusion
<troy_s> lapo: With a wise starting point.
<lapo> at the moment the linux desktop is like frankenstein
<_MMA_> troy_s: Can imagemagik (sp?) export a .ico to .png?
<troy_s> lapo: Tango isn't going to change that.  The upside of Tango is that people are at least creating icons with care.  That is about all one can hope for.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yes.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Some conversions will require similar formats however -- for example -- trying to bump something directly into a 16 colour only format will sometimes bork out.
<_MMA_> Ok.
<lapo> troy_s: tango is a starting point and it's the only one successfull at the moment
<lapo> troy_s: and it aims to change that
<troy_s> lapo: Yikes.
<troy_s> lapo: I think it is great what Tango has done and is doing (especially when it comes to naming specs etc.).  That said, I would never ever discourage someone from doing something innovative.  You just never know...
<andreasn> well, we made stuff even more themeable in 2.20
<lapo> troy_s: there are a lot of places where somebody can be innovative, being innovative in that specific field at the moment is just bad for the linux desktop
<troy_s> andreasn: And that is a +693012 from me.
<troy_s> lapo: And I, among a plethora of other individuals, would fundamentally disagree.
<_MMA_> lol
<_MMA_> Iant there always? :)
<_MMA_> *Isnt
<lapo> troy_s: thamability is nothing if you don't have the "themes" what have you got now?
<lapo> if you have something how much of the "themability" it is covering, let's say 5%
<troy_s> lapo: Look at the flipside -- with all of the terrain Tango has covered, what is the 'theme'?  And even so, a theme defined solely by an Iconset scares me.  Hell... if everyone shared the rather limited vision of icons as interface etc., would Iconfactory be paid large sums of money to create themed icons smidges?
<lapo> troy_s: in the case of icons, the "theme" covers that alone, but we're not talking of the base set theme, but all the applications which are shipping custom icons tango style
<lapo> and if you count every different icons I think you'll end up with a very high number
<lapo> naturally in oss nobody will be able to do all this work in an realistic time
<troy_s> lapo:  Who cares?
<troy_s> lapo: And do you need ot?
<lapo> people who uses the softwae for example?
<troy_s> lapo: You can't stop a 'contaminated' application from landing in OSX or Vista... but you can't worry about it.
<troy_s> lapo: Well I'm a person last time I checked... so I probably fall into that 'people' category.  Maybe _MMA_?  Maybe god knows what percentage.  It just isn't terribly relevant to some.
<lapo> ok, let's fuck usability then
<lapo> do you think apple would ship an mishmash of ui elements?
<troy_s> WHAT IS USABILITY
<troy_s> its all about audience
<lapo> oh man
<troy_s> and in the end, the argument is fundamentally flawed... if people are surrounded by Russ Meyer pictures you don't go out and say "Make Russ Meyer pictures because most of the movies out there are Russ Meyer like."
<troy_s> Sorry, but it's aesthetics.
<troy_s> There is no universal 'usable' nor 'functional'
<troy_s> It's a myth.  There is an audience.  There is a goal.  Depending on those two factors you will get to different paths.
<lapo> but there's the opposite which is what you're proposing mostly
<lapo> very application that looks and behave in a different way
<lapo> that's interensting but it's not easy to learn
<troy_s> lapo: I can't control how people build their applications.  Certain new fresh takes on applications might change the way we think about them.
<lapo> luckily you can't I'd say :-)
<troy_s> Anyways, it's a healthy discussion.  But alas, I must mow a lawn.
<troy_s> lapo: And luckily Tango isn't in OSX I'd say. ;P
<nothlit`alpha> i like the tango usability in dark or light environments :)
<lapo> tango kinda is in osx, look at their small icons
<lapo> they use the same tricks we use
<troy_s> Wow.  Now I have read it all.
<lapo> I'd have the same opinion you have if we were talking about pictures, but a computer is something yuou have to use, not to stare at
<troy_s> lapo: Uh huh.  And a car is something you use too.  A computer arguably is attended to by more people for a longer period of time than _any_ tool previous it's appearance in the 20th century.
<troy_s> lapo: Computers are as much a part of living as anything else.  Why do people put pictures of their kids on their desktop?
<troy_s> etc.
<troy_s> It's a foolish argument down a foolish path.
<lapo> you always misinterpret what I say
<andreasn> crap, speaking of pages, I promised to draw new abi icons
<lapo> you can't compare a car to a desktop system
<troy_s> lapo: Exactly.  Nor can you define what a desktop system should be.
<lapo> the complexity of a car user interface is a lot less then a computer one
<troy_s> lapo: It is fundamentally the most important evolutionary work of our time.  It has evolved from lines and sticks to more.  It continues to evolve.  Hell... an evolutionary look is probably not far off.
<lapo> for use interface I mean what interacts with the user there
<troy_s> lapo: Then why do a high percentage of adept mainstream computer users experiment with different looking icons?  Why does Iconfactory for example, offer THOUSANDS of icon snippit themes?
<troy_s> etc
<troy_s> You don't wear the same clothes to anything but a funeral.
<lapo> troy_s: how many users use iconfactory stuff?
<troy_s> lapo: _boatloads_
<lapo> troy_s: do you think they got money for programmers to do something completelly different?
<troy_s> lapo: Hell... mainstream movie houses hire them to generate high end franchise icons.
<andreasn> I kind of keep being paid for drawing the same icon style all the time :)
<troy_s> andreasn: And of course, our entire 'cult' is but a blip on the public radar.
<lapo> when a software house which make a windows software hire iconfactory do you think they make them draw something completelly different from what it's in windows?
<troy_s> lapo: Look at the icons.  I need not say more.  Look at the diversity.  How much money does Iconfactory get from M. Bey - inc to build a Transformers movie icon set?
<troy_s> lapo: It's a losing argument.
<andreasn> jasper gets paid to draw osx icons in the same style all the time apparently
<troy_s> sorry... anyways.  MOW
<troy_s> MUST MOW
<troy_s> andreasn: And they didn't change in leopard?
<troy_s> please.
<lapo> nope they didn't the style is still the same
<andreasn> hm, didn't they keep the same style?
<andreasn> I've only seen a couple of screens though
<troy_s> Cave?  You have seen all the folder changes and such?
<troy_s> Lol.
<troy_s> Anyways... MOW.  Sorry.
<lapo> troy_s: the style is the same still
<lapo> they changed the design a bit
<andreasn> the control center icons and stuff are the same I think
* _MMA_ laughs as he watches the grass grow up around a car on blocks in Troy's yard.
<andreasn> troy_s: is the lawn big?
<andreasn> I'm so happy that I'm renting my apartment and don't have to do lawn moving
<andreasn> or snow showeling
<andreasn> I was always puzzled why my father sighed when it snowed when I was a kid
<andreasn> since it was so great from my point of view
<andreasn> later, when I grew older and wiser though...
<andreasn> :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-06
<troy_s> andreasn: Well... it is only one of the minor downsides to owning a house.  Normally during the summer we just hire someone to do it... alas... it didn't happen.  :(
<andreasn> where do you live?
<troy_s> andreasn: The worst part is that I get allergic to the bloody grass.
<troy_s> andreasn: Canada.
<andreasn> what part of canada?
<troy_s> andreasn: Western.  Vancouver.
<andreasn> doesn't sgarrity live there too?
<andreasn> or maybe that was eastern canada
<nothlit`alpha> i thought you live just outside van, unless i'm confusing you with someone else who lives in bc
<troy_s> nothlit`alpha: No that's me.  If I said the burb where I live it would be rather useless.  Most people can look and find Vancouver on a map.
<troy_s> nothlit`alpha: although in today's era of gmaps and such, I suppose it is a rather archaic view of the world.
<troy_s> andreasn: sgarrity?  Unfamiliar with that name.
<andreasn> Steven Garrity, he works at Silverorange and did a lot of mozilla work
<andreasn> and some gnome stuff every now and then
<troy_s> andreasn: Interesting.
<andreasn> nah, it was on the east coast, Prince Edward Island
<troy_s> andreasn: Ahh... beautiful place.  Haven't been there in person yet.
<troy_s> andreasn: Where are you located?
<andreasn> Gothenburg, Sweden
<_MMA_> Ahhh.... Home of "Melo-Death" and In Flames. \m/
<troy_s> andreasn / lapo and any other Tango wizards out there -- is there any work currently on the table re:  1) alternate icons within a theme or 2) animated icons?
<andreasn> alternate within a theme how you mean?
<andreasn> animated icons, ugh :)
<troy_s> andreasn: Alternate icons within an overarching theme?
<andreasn> like only change a couple of icons in a theme?
<andreasn> like Mist?
<troy_s> andreasn: And I know the general 'stance' of G on animations, but it just seems a little dated to not offer the option.
<andreasn> well, I guess someone needs to code it
<troy_s> andreasn: Just wondering if anything progressive like that was on the table... I know generally it gets its a*s poo pooed from the Gnome braintrust, but it would seem that _someone_ must have already done something for it.
<andreasn> but there are no specific plans in gnome of it that I know of
<troy_s> (being animations)
<andreasn> well, there are animated icons for stuff like the nautilus trobber
<troy_s> Hrm...
<troy_s> upper right corner yes?
<andreasn> yes
<troy_s> But that infrastructure isn't in place for all of the icons, is it?
<andreasn> no
<troy_s> Is it even treated in remotely the same fashion?
<andreasn> it's not in librsvg that I know of, can't remember if timeline on svg is part of the stable svg spec really
<andreasn> but that would be a way to do it
<troy_s> andreasn: So how is for example, Firefox handling the animations for things like the well known clock and the other rather interesting svg anims?
<andreasn> I think it handles it via it's own svg rendering thing
<troy_s> Hrm.
<andreasn> but I think it would be cool to have animated svg's in librsvg, know any coder that wants to code it?
<andreasn> or one that wants to hack on librsvg in general as well
<troy_s> andreasn: I know very few coders.  It would seem that some sort of foundation is already in Mozilla land no?
<nothlit`alpha> firefox i think still doesn't support  svg animation
<troy_s> andreasn: I know batches of art faggy types... not too many coders.  A few... just not many.
<nothlit`alpha> the clock is done by javascript editing the xml
<troy_s> nothlit`alpha: Really?  With an update?
<troy_s> how interesting.
<nothlit`alpha> last time i tried the jimmac style loader svg didn't play in ff
<nothlit`alpha> you still need opera, batik, or the adobe svg loader
<nothlit`alpha> (the animated svg is in the tango archives)
<troy_s> nothlit`alpha: I would think that it would be applicable to metacity as well -- to offer transitions on the button states etc.
<nothlit`alpha> i've uploaded a thumbnailer, uses zenity for the gui if you don't supply cli filenames, will automatically render a raster version of svgs as well as a mini https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnail
<nothlit`alpha> troy_s: are you talking about  artist types that code? or just coders
<andreasn> ugh, better get off to bed
<andreasn> night!
<nothlit`alpha> troy_s: well, i don't know if we should be thinking about svg animation in the ui, when we're already getting to the point of complexity where things need to be prerendered at all sizes
<nothlit`alpha> i would think people would continue to use more and more complex svg work
<nothlit`alpha> or more filters, etc
<troy_s> nothlit`alpha: I was thinking purely from a contemporary look on the desktop -- it is hard to have that feel without some form of animated icon / window decoration.
<troy_s> I don't really know... it just seems that it would make sense.
<troy_s> nothlit`alpha: And I would hope that prerendering SVG's would hit the bloody death bed sooner rather than later.
<_MMA_> Reading back at andreasn's comments, I swear. Attitudes like that gonna relegate Gnome to nothingness. KDE4 keeps looking better and better.
<nothlit`alpha> gnome isn't going anywhere soon
<_MMA_> And thats too bad.
<_MMA_> It seems like its gonna take someone to come in and shape it up.
<nothlit`alpha> lol, you want the death of everything not kde for one big unification huh? =p
<_MMA_> Not a want but hey, KDE is making efforts to keep up with the times. I just done see it from Gnome.
<_MMA_> *dont
<troy_s> _MMA_ / nothlit`alpha:  GOoooooooo E!
<nothlit`alpha> heh, E will be ready for desktop use with 17 is out of beta
<troy_s> nothlit`alpha: Yeah... it is unfortunate the speed of E dev... too damn slow to get ahead of the game.
<troy_s> nothlit`alpha: and some rather poor 'mainstream' user design decision such as the uber-small nature of it.
<coz_> hey guys has ubuntu finalized the gutsy wallpapers yet?
<troy_s> coz_: cozzy!
<troy_s> coz_: ltns.
<troy_s> coz_: What you see is what you will get in Guts.
<coz_> troy_s, hey guy :)
<coz_> troy_s, oh thats too bad  although I like the elephant skin thingy
<coz_> troy_s, I was just going through all the sent in items most of which are really not great but  some are nice
<troy_s> coz_: Been a arting?
<coz_> troy_s, well not much since I am one of the support for compiz fuson  it has been pretty active there most days
<troy_s> support?
<troy_s> coz_: In what capacity?
<coz_> troy_s, I am part of the support team on #compiz-fusion
<coz_> troy_s, I define my role as minor there but we are all really active during most of the day
<coz_> troy_s, I decided to take a break from that channel to come here and take alook also at the art work for gutsy
<coz_> troy_s, there are about 8 of us there
<coz_> troy_s, Jupiter1Tx is the head of the support team
<troy_s> just on getting it up and running style support coz_ ?
<troy_s> not the coding support correct?
<coz_> troy_s, well actually everyone does a little of everything but the main coding of course is done by the main developers   we deal with installation   broken systems et c  etc and other various user created conditions :)
<coz_> troy_s, in fact one of the gusy  crdlb wrote the fusion-icon package for compiz fusion and he is not part of the develper community
<coz_> he is part of the support team
<coz_> guys not gusy
<coz_> troy_s, so everyone contributes what they can I did the recent splash screen
<troy_s> coz_: linky?
<coz_> well the only splash screen at this point
<coz_> troy_s, for what the spalsh
<troy_s> coz_: I always like to see fresh work.
<troy_s> yeah
<troy_s> of course.
<coz_> troy_s, oh its nothing unless you see it because it is animated but sure hold on
<coz_> http://wiki.opencompositing.org/Plugins/Splash
<coz_> i defined three of the plugins on the wiki that is one because i do the spalsh screens but they are not that great and that is not the one I wanted but the one the deveolpers wanted
<coz_> troy_s, i take it you do not use compiz fusion?
<troy_s> coz_: proprietary driver gong show on this end... i need to compile a custom set with older drivers.
<coz_> troy_s, oh well that splash is two separate files the test is static and the background is animated
<coz_> text is static
<coz_> it has a moire effect
<troy_s> interesting.  what does the bg do?  moire cycle?
<coz_> the way compiz fusion deals with the splash plugin is strange and i actually tipped onver the solution to get the moire effect  and I am not up on the definitions so ..
<coz_> but it may be gone in future version anyway
<coz_> troy_s, the bg is moving in a wave fashion   watery
<coz_> see if I can make a short video
<coz_> bad video   http://www.speedyshare.com/640842646.html
<coz_> so troy_s any improvement with relatioins between art team and shuttleworth?
<troy_s> coz_: Naw.  Its all in kwwi i's hands (sleeping so i am avoiding a ping)
<troy_s> coz_: I don't think it really matters in the end.
<coz_> troy_s, ok
<coz_> you say you are sleeping ?  I will leave you alone
<troy_s> coz_: Just go about helping projects where one can... that's the best situation I think.
<troy_s> coz_: No I am not sleeping.  kwwi i is.
<coz_> troy_s, probably so
<troy_s> I believe.
<coz_> oh lol
<coz_> it is nearly midnight here so I am not entirely awake
<troy_s> coz_: slick splash.
<coz_> troy_s, bad video
<troy_s> coz_: nice stuffs.  you didn't enter the logo design thing did you?
<coz_>  troy_s no I thought that would be a bit of a conflict since I do the splash
<coz_> although I sent one in early on but it was not even though out
<coz_> troy_s, and I have had contact with the winning logo creaotr to creat different splash screens
<nothlit> will compiz fusion get a logo as nice as jimmac's revamp of the compiz one? (which is <really> nice svg work imo)
<coz_> nothlit, do you have link
<coz_> nothlit, have you seen the winning logo for compiz fusion yet?
<coz_> nothlit, here is the winning logo   http://www.speedyshare.com/966928468.html
<troy_s> nothlit: The logos are pretty tight in terms of variation.  They are quite good.  You have jimmac's handy?
<nothlit> original logo http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Compiz_logo.png , jimmac version  http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/compiz.svg
<troy_s> nothlit: The set is very nice.
<troy_s> nothlit: Yep... the new set is at least as good as jimmac's work.
<coz_> nothlit, well the winning logo has a set of icons for compiz fuson   emerald , fusion settings etc  and they were created by a fellow in brazil named   graphfreak
<coz_> well that is his online name anyway
<coz_> i know is is a young fella going to university there in brazil
<nothlit> oh yeah the set is quite nice
<nothlit> i think the fusion could take some tweaking though
<coz_> nothlit, the all balck set
<coz_> nothlit, well if you mean the application it is still new overall
<nothlit> coz_: as in the inset/lighting effect could be improved lol =p
<coz_> nothlit, ah well that is more than possible .. you can put in a request for that  for sure.
<coz_> nothlit,  you can go here for request   http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/
<coz_> nothlit, and here for   info  http://wiki.opencompositing.org/Welcome
<troy_s> The set is quite nice
<coz_> troy_s, the black set?
<troy_s> coz_: Where ist he black set?
<coz_>  troy_s the whole set??   mm I think I have them here
<troy_s> coz_: Link?
<coz_> troy_s, here   http://www.speedyshare.com/991597759.html
<nothlit> hmm, do illustrator artists do stuff like this inkscape style or that mesh color grid http://onebuttonmouse.com/icons/polarexpress/
<nothlit> i haven't touched illustrator in years
<coz_> troy_s, they are on my system from graphfreak for use in the splash screens
<troy_s> nothlit: Yes... assuming talent.
<troy_s> nothlit: My friend did the Polar Express the movie... he was the motion capture artist who set up Zemeckis's eMotion capture system -- performance capture.
<troy_s> nothlit: And those are lovely.  I love that artist's lith set.
<nothlit> troy_s: i was asking if they do it in layered shapes or that mesh gradient colour system
<troy_s> nothlit: One talented cookie.
<troy_s> nothlit: Oh... no clue.
<troy_s> nothlit: For something like that, I would probably just draw the shapes.
<troy_s> nothlit: The smalls look pretty as hell too eh?
<nothlit> yeah, really impressive that they retain most of their impact
<troy_s> coz_: The set is nice, although the black is maybe a little heavy on the over consistent land -- the mixed palette was nicer for my tastes... all the all -- great stuff though.
<troy_s> nothlit: Hell yes.
<coz_> troy_s, well this was his first attempt with inkscape and I think he did a fine job considering
<troy_s> coz_: It really is a 'pretty' set -- no gaudy heavy lines etc.
<troy_s> coz_: Nice and thin lined etc.
<coz_> troy_s, he also did a color set of the same design but these stood out
<nothlit> well, the lines their all come from the shading itself :)
<troy_s> nothlit: His impressive lith set is just wonderful the way he adapts the firefox logo to the 2d lith style... it really is great stuff.
<nothlit> who thought that icon art would ever get to that stage =p
<troy_s> coz_: The most impressive part (not that I am a huge shiny 1997 gloss guy) is the way the gloss is technically adept as opposed to that tacky s curve crap.
<troy_s> coz_: The way it flows ala oldschool chroming via airbrush.
<coz_> troy_s, I like it and voted for this set myself   ... there were others that were quite nice but this set seemed the most consistent
<troy_s> coz_: The first generation with the different coloured boxes I thought was more tasteful -- but very similar.
<coz_>  ah ok
<troy_s> coz_: But they are tight.
<coz_> yes I did a group of svg distribution theme for one of the screenlets and included his stuff as a desltop logo  just for fun of course
<coz_> well it is dissapoining to hear that shuttlworth has not made any progress with the team
<coz_> not unexpected but still...
<nothlit> who has more jurisdiction over compiz/+fusion, novell or canonical?
<coz_> nothlit, cononical has no jurisdiction
<coz_> nothlit, it is now licensed under novell if I am not mistaken
<nothlit> coz_: with such a vested interest the they have no claim over any of the code?
<coz_> since the merge with beryl/compiz most of the code has the novel license in it from that last time ai compiled it anyway
<coz_> nothlit, no claim at all
<coz_> nothlit, unless there is something going on behind the scenes
<coz_> nothlit, if that is the case then most of us would not be aware of it
<coz_> nothlit, and I have learned to stay away from questioning things like that only be cause i get pretty involved and opinionated
<coz_> I tend to make enemies :)
<troy_s> coz_: I don't know if I would say that... another debacle with Gutsy so who knows.
<troy_s> coz_: I have no idea how his head works, and I don't think anyone really can.  In the end, he is a brilliant guy and no idiot by any stretch of the imagination.
<troy_s> coz_: I can only think he keeps learning along the art / design line at a frenetic pace.  But again, the nature of his makeup probably means he focuses more on other details -- not that those other details aren't as important.  It is just a different mind.
<coz_> troy_s, true and if he can he will get involved however nothing has ever come up about cononical even in the support private channel nothing has ever been mentioned but much talk about novells involvment
<coz_> troy_s, oh you mean the shuttleworht art team issue
<troy_s> Well novell isn't doing anything re design either.  sweepy blue curves and crap.
<coz_> troy_s, eeww I know
<coz_> :)
<troy_s> coz_: Diana is gone from redhat which is a bit of a blow really -- the highbar got lower again.
<coz_> oh
<troy_s> coz_: Novell's is a bigger gongshow than Ubuntu -- at least ubuntu has SOMETHING going for it -- albeit in a strange sort of painful way.  lol.
<coz_> :)
<troy_s> coz_: You must remember -- we are still living in the dark ages -- rather like album art when the record was first invented.
<coz_> troy_s, I know and if any more developers tell me they what art is i think i shoot myself
<troy_s> coz_: It didn't exist.
<troy_s> coz_: Well nature of the beast.  The best we can hope for is a true artistic 'movement' ala the oldschool artists who have all come before.
<troy_s> coz_: Not some dweebs chasing after what the other kids on the block are doing.
<nothlit> hmm, i quite like these ones http://www.opencompositing.org/contest/main.php?g2_itemId=444
<coz_> troy_s, it would be nice  to see quality  involved in these  events for sure
<coz_> nothlit,  yeah many voted for them
<troy_s> coz_: Free Software is ripe for a true movement.  Just as the rebelling against say the mainstream 'polish' gave birth to DIY or the rebelling against the Swiss style with clutter.
<coz_> troy_s, you may be righit    we just need to find the crack to  slip into it
<troy_s> those have that nasty 'i'm a lazy ass' gloss curve on them.
<nothlit> coz_: what are the developers telling you?
<troy_s> this faux consistency in the name of consistency united under consistency sake.
<coz_> nothlit, about what?
<troy_s> coz_: I think it is there...
<nothlit> coz_: about art
<troy_s> coz_: Just find the group of people who are passionate about the movement and have the ability to deliver content using whatever tools we must.
<troy_s> coz_: It is quite intriguing in the 'bigger' scope when one looks at history and how all of this might play out in a possible future.
<coz_> nothlit, well they have their own concept of what they think should be included in  compiz fuson  as i said the splash they got from me was  not the one I originally wanted to use they asked that i change many things  which did but kept my grumpy opinons about it to myself this itme
<coz_> time
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> old cozzy
<troy_s> ok... brb... compiling a proprietary library... YAY
<troy_s> (sh*t)
<coz_> troy_s, i wanted my splash to introduce the application so...
<troy_s> so?
<coz_> I did what they wanted
<nothlit> well, one of the ways to go is what you're doing already then
<nothlit> Nox/u2
<troy_s> nothlit: But I think a real movement could happen -- take the mainstream and all that is broken with it -- the proprietary nature and all the ethical rubbish and truly move against it.
<nothlit> uS is heading down a nice road, they have the potential to get somewhere and be a flagship
<coz_> I would like to see more impressive  better skilled art on the scene  than what I have been subjected to
<troy_s> coz_: Yeah but that takes idiots like you to step up and flail with the tools and produce good work and build a body of work showing that you can do the gig.
<nothlit> troy_s: only way to break free is find a way out of reach of the corporate overlords
<troy_s> coz_: lol
<troy_s> coz_: Then maybe we can build a footing.
<troy_s> coz_: Who knows.
<coz_> troy_s, ah remember that ubuntu kicked me for my work because it was in their opinion too revealing
<nothlit> coz_: i wouldn't mind seeing your original splash :)
<coz_> nothlit, i will have to find on one of the externals let me see if I can hold on
<troy_s> coz_: It is a path I have chosen -- just get the work out there as best as you can while trying desperately to balance the scales between want and progression.
<troy_s> coz_: Well that is all in the past.
<troy_s> coz_: If you are weak, you walk away.  If you are strong, you keep struggling.
<coz_> troy_s, yeah i have been , again, think ing about this channel ,  you , and the topics we have discussed in the past    i want to make a real contribution in that area  I hope things can get moving and I certainly woulndt mind making waves doing that
<troy_s> coz_: Just keep doing the work.  That's all one can do.
<troy_s> coz_: Eventually perhaps we can get some momentum.
<coz_> troy_s, maybe so lettin people see what can be done
<troy_s> coz_: I will say I have met at least _two_ talented folks who have art degrees and are quite gifted... the landscape is changing.
<nothlit> part of it is the perception and divide of artists between traditional artists that use the computer and the kids that have grown up on digital art
<coz_> even if my work is not top notch  ti still is out there
<coz_> nothlit, much can be done with digital media for sure   it is the skills I am finding lacking with many people
<troy_s> coz_: Gradually... the first iterations will obviously be littered with all sorts of concessions and compromises... but it should get better assuming the work holds up.
<nothlit> coz_: because they think the tools make the artist
<coz_>  troy_s i agree
<troy_s> coz_: That's just it... not _all_ of the work will be top shelf nor should it be assuming people are trying new things.
<coz_> nothlit, I know there is the downfall  isnt it
<nothlit> we need the regular artists to use the digital tools
<troy_s> coz_: The worst case is that people deliver mediocrity while striving to deliver a trend that has passed and _not_ forging a potential future or something.
<coz_> nothlit, which is what I try to do  i like working digitally but I tend to be more of old school art than anything
<troy_s> nothlit: Have you seen any of coz_'s stuff?
<nothlit> troy_s: wait... isn't he the one that did the lion gimping? :D
<troy_s> nothlit: Probably one of the more accomplished painterly styles I have seen in the 'scene'.
<coz_> I have nothing online
<nothlit> now that i think of it
<troy_s> coz_: You should also set up a blog or something.
<troy_s> coz_: Get the work out there so that people can see.
<troy_s> coz_: Especially your gimp african man set etc.
<coz_> troy_s, well my nephe w is insisting on buying a web page for my stuff
<troy_s> Erm mask set.
<troy_s> coz_: Just go to blogger or something and set one up.  One click if you already have gmail.
<coz_> troy_s, yeah i love those masks they took a looong time to complete
<troy_s> coz_: You stubborn fool.
<nothlit> the svg mask set i saw on the wiki before as a mascot proposal? or something else
<coz_> lol  I am italian what do you expect
<troy_s> nothlit: He did a full series actually.
<troy_s> coz_: 50% of that in me too.
<coz_> nothlit, no no tthat one
<nothlit> coz_: did you do that gimp painting of the lion?
<troy_s> coz_: The other half is bloody eastern block starving Eisensteinism.
<troy_s> nothlit: Methinks that was his too.
<coz_> nothlit,  I have done several lions
<troy_s> nothlit: On a side note, who did that dawn of Ubuntu tree?  Does anyone know?
<coz_> i think my blog although empty with words has a few pieces let me check
<nothlit> um, i had his website before
<nothlit> lemme regoogle
<troy_s> aside from the obvious center punching hell composition, it is extremely well done.
<troy_s> brb... let me get glx going.
<coz_> nothlit,  no I removed the lion but there are some minor pieces here   http://coz1.blogspot.com/
<coz_> nothlit,  and troy already condemed me fro not allowing them to be linked to a larger image
<nothlit> interesting
<nothlit> i thought they were clickable before
<coz_> nothlit, no  I didnt know how lol
<nothlit> coz_: some great stuff there
<coz_> nothlit, thanks  not great pieces by any standard though
<nothlit> well, i might be able to judge better if i could see them =p
<nothlit> they look quite good as thumbnails, and thats one of the most important things
<troy_s> well that was painless.
<coz_> :)
<nothlit> troy_s http://lucumr.pocoo.org/art/ , blackbird is his gnome-look id, http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Night+Of+Ubuntu?content=52958 is a modified version someone made
<nothlit> next time let me finish typing so i don't have to save my line
<coz_> :)
<nothlit> =p
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> did i bum out on you before you typed lol
<nothlit> i was compiling the last url
<troy_s> not his though.
<troy_s> i wonder who actually painted dawn
<coz_> well guys i come here on occasion hoping to talk at least a bit about art ... with this technical support for compiz fusion it gets me a bit down at times so thanks  ahead of time
<troy_s> night is some nasty colorize in gimp
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> lol
<coz_> :)
<troy_s> coz_: You should probably just bloody idle in here you foolio.
<coz_> troy_s, i know i do so much time in support I forget then when Id o come here it is 2 or 3 am here and no one is one
<coz_> on
<troy_s> well sometimes the moons align.
<troy_s> although it was hideous for me the past while as i was on a show.
<nothlit> troy_s: on gnome-look blackbird says its his
<coz_> well I decided to quit early this evening just to come here
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> coz_: Spending time answering questions gets tiring.
<troy_s> nothlit: Interesting.
<coz_> oh boy does it
<nothlit> yeah, i've permanently pooped out on support in #ubuntu
<nothlit> i don't know how you would do it constantly for so long
<coz_> nothlit, I have to say that #compiz-fusion is a really even well tempered support channel  it s pretty easy to deal with
<coz_> and I will probably fo there shortly anyway :)
<coz_> go not fo
<coz_> damn fingers
<coz_> well troy_s   and nothlit  i think i am going to head over to compiz fusion now but will leave this channel in lurk mode :)
<coz_> thanks again guys ti was really  nice   ... I needed this :)
<troy_s> Okie... chat soon hopefully coz.
<troy_s> get cranking on the work.
<coz_> troy_s, will do and I will try to get here as often as possible also.... I need to talk art even if i disagree with everyone lol
<nothlit> what the... i downloaded the dapper drake artwork source package and dawn is not in it
<troy_s> coz_: Disagreements are nothing more than people who give a shit.
<troy_s> nothlit: Hrm... odd.
<nothlit> oh, extraction error
<nothlit> got it now
<nothlit>         Dawn of Ubuntu: Armin Ronacher <armin.ronacher@active-4.com>
<nothlit>                 CC Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
<troy_s> Hrm...
<nothlit> he has a second website http://active-4.com/creative.html
<troy_s> night
<nothlit> cyas
#ubuntu-artwork 2007-10-07
<nothlit> troy_s: i talked to the creator of the dawn wallpapers, says he doesn't have any time to contribute artwork and is at least working on the german portal for ubuntu
<troy_s> nothlit: Not a shocker.  Did he mention what he painted it in?
<nothlit`alpha> troy_s: no, i asked him now though
<lassegul_> troy_s: hi, are you there?
<troy_s> lassegul_: Go for me.
<nothlit> lassegul, lame nothlit update of the day: another orange and black sketch https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnails/
<lassegul_> troy_s: are there any way to make a box that blurs everything under it in inkscape?
<troy_s> lassegul_: Hrm... as in an effect layer...
<lassegul_> troy_s: yes
<troy_s> lassegul_: Technically, you should be able to accomplish something with clones for that.
<nothlit> clone group clip blur?
<troy_s> lassegul_: But the quickest trik I did was simply do a copy / mask / blur.
<troy_s> nothlit: Yes... something like that should work.
<lassegul_> hmm. thanks guys ill try.
<troy_s> lassegul_: Clones are a little tricky to wrap your head around -- as being 'clones' only certain aspects are editable and therefore they behave like stubborn mules to some people.
<nothlit> i would have just carved out the entire thing and blurred it, you can save the original in a hidden layer
<troy_s> lassegul_: That said, if you master clones, they will unlock a whole other area of power.
<lassegul_> nothlit: is it a waterfall?
<troy_s> nothlit: That is what I did.
<lassegul_> troy_s: hmm.
<troy_s> nothlit: I did it on the gdm for Alive
<nothlit> Alive?
<nothlit> lassegul_: yes it is =p
* nothlit is ashamed you had to ask
<lassegul_> nothlit: when you have orange water i think of unclean, sewer water.
<troy_s> the quickie pill is much like what you are going for lassegul_ correct?  http://bp1.blogger.com/_95-BHeta7y8/RrTLz-8cWeI/AAAAAAAAALo/qUgBzLfyklk/s1600-h/Screenshot-Xnest-1.png
<lassegul_> troy_s: yep.
<troy_s> lassegul_: I believe that clones can get you there.  I haven't experimented with an 'adjustment layer' approach with clones... perhaps I will spend 15 mins on it.
<nothlit> lassegul_: lol, will not be that sort of orange =p
<nothlit> but thanks for that image ;p
<lassegul_> nothlit: im sorry
<nothlit> i was joking lol
<troy_s> nothlit: You are a bit of a compiling guru yes?
<nothlit> i guess i should make it less yellow to avoid the golden stream connotation as well
<lassegul_> nothlit: i didnt mean to offend you, its just, water that isnt blue or clear often represents unclean water.
<lassegul_> haha
<troy_s> seriously... we can't really be in any channel labeled '*artwork*' and not be willing to offend.
<nothlit> troy_s: a little, but i may not be able to help at all with ubuntu funniness
<troy_s> all of this 'please be nice and courteous and kind and don't ruffle feathers' business rather detracts from about 1000 years of formal art patterns.  lol.
<lassegul_> troy_s: ok im sorry
<lassegul_> :D
<troy_s> lassegul_: LOOOOOL
<troy_s> nothlit: http://www.pastebin.ca/729164
<troy_s> nothlit: I can't seem to see where it is bagging out... only perhaps in the order of compilation?
<nothlit> checking packages now
<troy_s> nothlit: I wonder if it is starting with a lower version of automake...
<troy_s> nothlit: Grr...
<nothlit> troy_s: last time i had an error like that the source upstream application was actually not installing the file to begin with though
<nothlit> the cinelerra mailing list suggests trying ./configure --disable-mmx
<nothlit> or maybe try disabling the motion effect from motion tracking?
<troy_s> hrm... god you are a speedy little genius aren't you.
<troy_s> it looks like it _might_ be related to mmx (which I always thought was avail on X86_64
<nothlit> "If that doesn't work let us know where you your source code is from.
<nothlit> Current svn (1016) source compiles for me without any flags.  But around
<nothlit> 6 weeks ago installing from svn source was not amd64 friendly and
<nothlit> required hacks."
* _MMA_ cringes at the slightest mention of Cinelerra.
<nothlit> _MMA_: still working out tracking down license issues for each commit?
<_MMA_> Ive given up for now.
<_MMA_> Feels like a lost cause.
<nothlit> does the originating branch have that issue as well?
<_MMA_> Oh hell yeah.
<_MMA_> The mainline doesnt care whatsoever about these issues.
<nothlit> his code isn't GPLed?
<_MMA_> *HIS* code is.
<_MMA_> But its all the other code he uses.
<_MMA_> Without mentioning.
<nothlit> does the google code search help at all?
<_MMA_> LGPL stuff which you can find looking over header of some files.
<nothlit> i would just create a compiler tool specifically for cinelerra
<_MMA_> Ive never tried.
<troy_s> LGPL and MIT is fine
<troy_s> the biggest wham bam is a rather ignorant approach to fonts
<troy_s> not wanting to break backwardness.
<troy_s> needless to say, it cracks me up about 'linux not ready for mmedia'  go out and get nuke or smoke if you want.
<_MMA_> Any license that fits the DFSG is fine. Its the fact that he/they say _everything's_ GPL and its not.
<troy_s> considering that nuke was used to create pirates 3, spider 3, etc. linux is very much ready for it... and smoke is uh... well... high end to say the least.
* _MMA_ really doesnt want to rehash this whole issue for the 1000th time. :)
<troy_s> lol
<nothlit> ILM and DreamWorks use linux. not much more needs to be said.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Problem is though, people are in the dark.  Nuke and Smoke are proprietary high end apps.  It should have gone away about six years ago.
<nothlit> all the high end renderes run on linux, and things like maya and houdini do as well
<_MMA_> I was talking about the Cinelerra thing.
<nothlit> renderers*
<troy_s> oh
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> _MMA_: Has muzzol offered any news?
<troy_s> _MMA_: It seems they are working towards fixing hte gpl issues slowly
<_MMA_> No. And Ive asked several time.
<_MMA_> *times
<nothlit> pirates 3 drove me crazy while i was watching it thinking about how much budgeting they spent on effects
<nothlit> its such a tight movie though
<troy_s> nothlit: Say hello to nuke!
<troy_s> nothlit: P3 is Nuke's entry as the reigning champ of compositors.  It effectively killed Shake with that move.
* _MMA_ likes that the actor that plays "Hiro" in "Heroes" was a programmer for ILM. :)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Never knew that.
<nothlit> water scenes for LOTR :)
<nothlit> actually i think they used part of his code in pirates
<nothlit> still can't believe they still needed actual water composited with the 3d for LOTR though
<troy_s> nothlit: Nuke is one helluva tool.  NLEs best venture outside of FCPS is probably Smoke -- and that too has a x86 and x86_64 version for Linux.
<_MMA_> troy_s: On the DVDs there's couple min thing about how he and the director can talk on a technical level the director wasnt used to.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Do you know which distros are use under Nuke and Smoke?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Nuke 32 works on Ubuntu out of box.
<troy_s> _MMA_: I haven't got my hands on the 64 bit but I assume it works fine.
<nothlit> i'm finding a lot of those sorts of apps give you debs or src packages that needs old versions of gcc
<troy_s> _MMA_: The Foundry recently bought Nuke -- it is easily the best compositor out there.  Shake was great until Apple purchased them and started driving it  into the ground.
<_MMA_> I meant specifically the production studios.
<troy_s> _MMA_: They will turn Shake into a prosumer gongshow.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Oh most studios are _probably_ running F
<troy_s> _MMA_: I know Technicolour runs F (Well RHEL)
<_MMA_> Ahh.. Figured that or Debian.
<nothlit> no gentoo deployments with a binary package server?
<troy_s> _MMA_: All about reputation for them and the paid support.  Ubuntu might get there if they can show a little more care about security.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Unfortunately, all the admins I know in those studio situations heard about the 'root password' sitting in a plaintext file and pretty much wrote Ubuntu off.  As they should have.
<troy_s> _MMA_: That was a blunder that can only happen from a company that doesn't give a rats ass about security.
<_MMA_> Couldnt that be done as a gpg (pgp I always forget) key?
<troy_s> _MMA_: I think it is more symptomatic.  That was just a blunder.  A complete blunder.
<nothlit> root password?
<nothlit> its disabled and empty now, but should still have been salted before
<troy_s> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/13/0525254
<nothlit> they're still not that concerned tbh, i saw a ticket filed by a <loco head> asking for ssl on logins for their drupal and moin
<nothlit> this is after the dugg breakins of course
<troy_s> nothlit: Agree 100%
<kristjan_> can we get new crystal icons for kubuntu gutsy? http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Crystal+Project?content=60475
<troy_s> nothlit: It is a cavalier march to becoming the Windows of Linux.
<troy_s> Everaldo's new set kill all the other icons out there really.
<troy_s> In that style.
<troy_s> (hell in any style)
<nothlit> kristjan_: if kwwii wants to get it in, we're only a few days to the RC though
<nothlit> troy_s: they can't, linspire has that, and with their basing on ubuntu, they'll always be ahead
<troy_s> nothlit: ?
<troy_s> nothlit: Security wise?
<nothlit> troy_s: they just added nonroot as default, and only to freespire
<nothlit> troy_s: they can't do it to their paying customers who "expect it"
<troy_s> nothlit: What are you talking about specifically?
<nothlit> their sudo is passwordless still in linspire too iirc
<troy_s> nothlit: Sorry I am completely in the dark on the last few lines.
<nothlit> linspire, (ie the paid version) is still administrator as default
<nothlit> thats all you need to know =p
<troy_s> nothlit: Not so much just that -- look at the whole.  Hell... ssh should be enabled by default and other little details... like simplifying ssh for sharing etc.  Otherwise people start using garbage apps like FTP / Telnet / etc.
<kristjan_> nothlit: and this is related to crystal icons exactly how?
<nothlit> well ssh and avahi together i suppose
<troy_s> nothlit: And that is just a stupid bloody move.  Idiots.  98% of the security problems that amassed through windows started strictly because of admin rights.
<nothlit> kristjan_: its called a continuation of a different conversation
<troy_s> kristjan_: Not all that happens here is about KDE icons.  :)
<troy_s> kristjan_: It isn't in our hands.  You are also probably about 4 months late.
<nothlit> i don't like the idea of every ubuntu machine out there available for ssh bruteforcing
<troy_s> nothlit: True enough, but a basic IPtables clause would shatter that quite quickly.
<nothlit> iptables can only block ips rather than domains, theres a variety of ssh bruteforcers that respond or use the hosts files
<troy_s> nothlit: Needless to say, security should be high up the map.
<nothlit> but it still opens up a whole bunch more machines for 0day
<nothlit> maybe we should write a spec for this including security lol
<_MMA_> troy_s: So apparently I can use "difference" or "exclusion" through multiple objects in inkscape?
<_MMA_> gah
<_MMA_> s/can/cant
<_MMA_> Makes all the difference. ;)
<troy_s> Wholly CRAP
<troy_s> _MMA_: I got Cinelerra up!
<troy_s> _MMA_: Unbelieveable.
<_MMA_> w00t
<thorwil> _MMA_: try grouping?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Only BASE objects
<_MMA_> thorwil: They are. Doesnt work.
<troy_s> _MMA_: If the object is for example, a font, you will need to spline it.
<troy_s> _MMA_: All boolean math works only on root objects.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Yeah. thats the error I get.
<nothlit> path booleans only work on paths :P
<troy_s> _MMA_: (well that is an oversimplification -- it works on Rects etc.)
<troy_s> nothlit: Well yeah.  :)
<troy_s> lol
<troy_s> _MMA_: Anyways, the bottom line i that the paths all need to be paths :)
<nothlit> cinelerra works fine straight from the pkgbuild in arch lol, and i don't even use it
<nothlit> =p
<troy_s> nothlit: ?
<troy_s> nothlit: Good luck on amd64
<troy_s> nothlit: This is the FIRST time I have had it up on my 64 bit boxen.
<thorwil> _MMA_: ah right. i remember i worked around that once by copying my objects and applying the op on pairs ...
<_MMA_> troy_s: So how to I make grouped objects a root object?
<troy_s> _MMA_: You will need to make sure that your objects are all simple paths.  This might be done by looking to the obvious 'oopsies' like text.
<nothlit> troy_s: has 64bit specific stuff built in =p
<troy_s> _MMA_: And converting to a path.  That is generally the breaker.
<troy_s> nothlit: Well 64 bit is always a bit more effort.
<nothlit> thats why pkgbuilds have maintainers lol
<_MMA_> troy_s: You can guess Im working with that set I showed you last night. I "strokes" objects all over the place.
<troy_s> _MMA_: I'm impressed!
<troy_s> _MMA_: Erk... sorry set?
<troy_s> _MMA_: All should be good -- if you have a stroke set though it will inherently change when you do a boolean on a path.
<_MMA_> So Im just trying to "cut" through the grouped objects that make the icon.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Can you show me the exact case?
<troy_s> _MMA_: And I can resolve it for you quite quickly.
<_MMA_> http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/1281
<troy_s> I need more info _MMA_ which one?
<nothlit> troy_s: http://cvs.archlinux.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/multimedia/cinelerra-cv/PKGBUILD?rev=1.3&cvsroot=AUR&only_with_tag=CURRENT&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup  http://aur.archlinux.org/packages/cinelerra-svn/cinelerra-svn/PKGBUILD :)
<_MMA_> troy_s: Well thats the set and the specific one really doesnt matter. Im just playing with the "computer" image.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Ok... dcc me the actual svg you are trying to boolean?
<troy_s> _MMA_: I might be able to diagnose the exact starting problem and then you will be better off down the road.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Did you get my message about an art director?
<_MMA_> Yes.
<troy_s> _MMA_: He is a friend of mine currently doing DIY work for a few bands.
<_MMA_> Do yo uhave a link to his work?
<troy_s> _MMA_: He has about 15 years as art director with Electronic Arts and a few other companies.
<troy_s> _MMA_: He doesn't have anything online I believe.  Further, most of his 'reel' is found in game.
<_MMA_> troy_s: I cant DCC you. Never works for me.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Porto problems.  Email?
<_MMA_> Just DL that set.
<_MMA_> Take yo uless time than for me to do a email.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Hold then.
<nothlit> _MMA_: uhh, that set has 47mb worth of flat svgs?!?
<nothlit> 27*
<_MMA_> 15
<_MMA_> 15.4 actually.
<_MMA_> 1500 icons.
<nothlit> thats the compressed tar size lol
<_MMA_> troy_s: re: Art friend. Sure. See if he's interested and he and I can chat.
<troy_s> power outages suck
<troy_s> ass.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Sorry... little downtime here :)
<_MMA_> np
<_MMA_> re: Art friend. Sure. See if he's interested and he and I can chat.
<nothlit> what? brownout?
<troy_s> _MMA_: He said he might be.  I guess it would ultimately depend on how you guys mesh.
<troy_s> nothlit: And outout.
<troy_s> lol
<_MMA_> troy_s: Sure.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Ok what one?
<_MMA_> gnome-fs-client
<troy_s> YIKES NO SYMLINKS!
<_MMA_> Looks like a monitor.
<troy_s> no wonder that bloody thing is so huge.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Path?
<_MMA_> troy_s: I have Andrew converting it to Tango naming speck and cleaning it up now. ;)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Many of those shapes need to be booleaned down to a simple look ala lith -- which I assume is what you are doing.
<_MMA_> troy_s: its in filesystems but really doesnt matter which one you use.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Ok got it... and you are boolean what?
<troy_s> _MMA_: So every basic shape in there works fine for a boolean.  So the boolean problem is with your end regarding the object you are trying to subtract etc...
<_MMA_> http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/decay_textures.svg
<_MMA_> So I grouped all the objects in the .svg.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Hey those look familiar :)
<_MMA_> Then tried to use the .svg I just linked to to "cut through" the icon.
<_MMA_> ;)
<troy_s> _MMA_: Ahh... so take whatever elements you want to bool
<_MMA_> And remember this is all testing. Im just trying to get a method down for doing this.
<troy_s> _MMA_: And duplicate them
<troy_s> _MMA_: Then arrange the new copies as you like
<troy_s> _MMA_: And do a ctrl shift + on them
<troy_s> _MMA_: That will be a pure union and work fine for subtractions.
<troy_s> _MMA_: At some point the complexity level will prohibit bools.
<troy_s> _MMA_: You will need to subdivide and conquer...
<_MMA_> See. Same error. What option from the "Path" menu should I choose.
<troy_s> _MMA_: I would like to be able to tell you the internal logic of Inkscape re that, but I don't know what it is exactly -- and it changes pretty much weekly on the complexity of the bools.
<troy_s> when i first started in on the http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/troy.sobotka/ImageDump/photo#5068722476331584498 portrait, it was far more limited in bools.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Hrm... so you ungrouped?
<troy_s> _MMA_: Pick two of the ungrouped decays, and union them.
<troy_s> ala ctrl shift +
<troy_s> that should give you the bounding box indication that it is now a union
<_MMA_> I keep getting this "ONE of the objects in not a path." error.
<troy_s> _MMA_: From that decay svg?!
<troy_s> _MMA_: There are only three paths on the original icon.
<troy_s> _MMA_: And about 8 different paths worth in the decay
<troy_s> _MMA_: If you do a single, it should work.  Perhaps one of them is a subgrouping?
<_MMA_> On either decay or the icon.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Decay
<troy_s> _MMA_: Icon is all good.
<troy_s> _MMA_: I booleaned every element.
<_MMA_> done
<troy_s> _MMA_: Did you find the problem entity?
<troy_s> thorwil appears to be having connection problems.
<_MMA_> I dont think I can do what Im thinking.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Save the svg as you have it now
<troy_s> _MMA_: And email it to me.
<troy_s> _MMA_: You most certainly can do what you want.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Give me the snapshot, and then talk me through what you are attempting.
<_MMA_> Im unsure because I want to also cut through a "stroke".
<_MMA_> http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/gnome-fs-client.svg
<troy_s> _MMA_: Hold please.
<_MMA_> np
<troy_s> _MMA_: Ok now specifically, talk me through it.
<troy_s> _MMA_: First, if you want the stroke to be cut cleanly -- as in use the actual shape of the stroke, you will need to convert the stroke to a path as well.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Out of the gate, your basic monitor is grouped -- so that is a starting problem.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Ungroup the monitor into its discreet elements.
<_MMA_> See. Thats what I was trying to do.
<_MMA_> done
<troy_s> _MMA_: Then you will need to convert the stroke to path via the "Edit nodes" tool (2nd down on left) and click the 2nd to last toolbar icon from the top.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Obviously when you convert strokes to paths, you lose the two tone colours as now each is a path.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Net result == rethink how the object sits on the page - as it is now a 'shape' that is the border and a 'shape' that will be the background.
<_MMA_> Crap. I needed a simple way to do thi. I cant go through this with 1500 icons.
<_MMA_> *this
<troy_s> _MMA_: Well it is quite simple -- you don't want strokes.
<troy_s> _MMA_: You want a generic shape ala lith
<troy_s> _MMA_: and distress that.
<_MMA_> No. Im keeping the strokes.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Uggh.  Anyways, then path them and use a basic shape as the bg to keep opaque.
<nothlit> lol, nonsimple is to duplicate everything on a seperate layer
<_MMA_> What you propose is more work than I want to put into it.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Then distress accordingly.
<nothlit> unstroke everything on the first
<troy_s> _MMA_: Actually no, I would be unioning the piss out of those images -- the strokes are clunky as hell.
<nothlit> and stroke to path everything on the second
<_MMA_> Still, too much work.
<troy_s> _MMA_: You can't get a good product and do no work.
<_MMA_> Just think about going through 1500 icons. Thats a shitload of work.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Remember the holy trinity of "Time" "Money" and "Quality" -- pick your two.
<nothlit> _MMA_: or get someone to script it as a python effect for you
<troy_s> _MMA_: If you you want "Quality" without "Money" it will be time.
<nothlit> or batch render and then batch process the different versions with gimp
<_MMA_> I could also just export them to hires .png and do it that way.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Honestly, with someone knowing what they are doing, its relatively quick.
<troy_s> _MMA_: We managed to convert all the tango SVGs to the Flux palette in about (well me) 2 hours.
<troy_s> _MMA_: It isn't that huge a deal.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Well Ill look into it. As Im not seeing a simple way to do this Im just uneasy about asking someone to do the work.
<_MMA_> 1500 icons is ALOT if icons.
<troy_s> _MMA_: It will require work. Someone.
<troy_s> _MMA_: And there is no way in hell that there is 1500 icons.
<_MMA_> Though with simlinks I think it can be widdled down.
<troy_s> _MMA_: MOST of those in that package are silly duplicates.
<troy_s> _MMA_: There simply isn't that many.  That said, the person doing the work will need to know Inkscape or get to know it rapidly.
<_MMA_> Well I get 1183 objects. So in any case there's over 1000. And I have andrew cleaning it up like I said. Once that is done Ill go from there.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Yeah... look at Tango's install and you get a better idea.  It is a far more top shelf layout with exactly the proper quantities.
<troy_s> _MMA_: There aren't that many.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Without stroke and a quicky subtraction job.
<_MMA_> http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/rect628test.png
<_MMA_> With stroke. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/rect628test2.png
<_MMA_> Im gonna have to do this .svg.
<_MMA_> gah. gotta run.
<_MMA_> bbl
<nothlit> this is what i got if you don't mind only rendering it out--the clean svg way will take longer https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/gnome-fs-directory.png
<nothlit> i did it that way too if you want to try though
<_MMA_> Yeah.
<_MMA_> .svg is the bitch.
<_MMA_> Oh well. Ill keep tinkering.
<nothlit> _MMA_: did you do that in gimp without feathering/aliasing or something?
<_MMA_> Yeah. Damn quick.
<Viper550> I noticed that they added some new styles for Clearlooks in recent versions
<nothlit> _MMA_: if you want i'll give you the inkscape raster only method
<_MMA_> Naa... Its ok.
<Viper550> anyone? remember me?
<nothlit> its about 3 steps minus the dirt import and ungrouping =p
<nothlit> wait, 4, but it depends on what colour the import was to begin with
<nothlit> Viper550: dunno anything about that sorry
<Viper550> from what I hear, the ClearLooks engine has a dedicated Gloss style now
<troy_s> Viper550: Yes, some remember you.  No, not many people care.
<Viper550> Well, anyway, I have noticed since the last time I've played with Gnome, that ClearLooks has gloss now, we could theoretically use it as the power for the default theme instead of ubuntulookks
<_MMA_> gloss FTW!!!
<troy_s> Viper550: Sure.  Gloss is about oh circa 1997.
<Viper550> well, Clearlooks has a gloss STYLE now you can use
<troy_s> Viper550: Great idea.  Maybe we could even make everything square too and possibly 4 colour for a really 1980s contemporary feel.
<troy_s> Viper550: GREAT.
<_MMA_> troy_s: Oh you SOB. You hurt my feelings. :(
<troy_s> Viper550: You might also want to consider packing in some "Warrant" or "Def Leppard" as the default sound splash for it too.
<_MMA_> \m/
* _MMA_  cant help but feel like the color palette he's been playing with looks like a 80/90's "L.A. Gear" shoe commercial.
<troy_s> lol
<_MMA_> Or like Im friggin' watchin' Max Headroom. :)
<troy_s> lol
<_MMA_> ;)
<KidProQuo> Unrelated to the current gloss/ colour discussion... does anyone know why the icons in my splash screen (the one between login and desktop) look faded?
<KidProQuo> almost like they're behind a semi-transparent white layer?
<_MMA_> KidProQuo: In Feisty?
<KidProQuo> yup
<_MMA_> Hmm... Never noticed. Then again I havnt used the Ubuntu image in a while.
<troy_s> KidProQuo: Ignore that
<troy_s> KidProQuo: It's gone in Gutsy
<troy_s> KidProQuo: Had you had a faster box or less of a gag between video, you would have seen a fade on the icons.
<KidProQuo> ok, I was just working on some concepts for hardy and noticed it
<troy_s> KidProQuo: The logon splash is done like dinner.
<troy_s> KidProQuo: Any snaps of what you are thinking?
<KidProQuo> I'll chuck them online now. Give me 2 min
<_MMA_> ***Viper550 takes his glossy toys and goes home.
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> KidProQuo: Thanks a million
<troy_s> _MMA_: Viper has a long history with buntu.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Long.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Long.
<_MMA_> :)
<_MMA_> Any of it good?
<_MMA_> I do know his name.
<KidProQuo> http://kpqhardyheron.googlepages.com/hardyheronideas
<_MMA_> Cool.
<KidProQuo> No gloss in sight you'll be happy to know
<_MMA_> The brown might have to go.
<_MMA_> As well as the Gnome-Splash in general.
<KidProQuo> why might the brown have to go? for any specific part?
<_MMA_> Not in the palette for Hardy.
<KidProQuo> really? what is the palette for hardy based on?
<_MMA_> Its not quite final but Black/Orange will be prominent sounds like.
<Skiessi> I don't like the window borders :P
<Skiessi> in that "desktop idea 1"
<KidProQuo> skiessi: the squareness?
<Skiessi> yeah
<troy_s> Ok... before we go into too much more 'Ugly' 'Isn'tUsable' and all the other wonderful random bot comments...
<troy_s> Skiessi: What about the work don't you like.
<troy_s> (the reason I have stuck on it is largely that we as a community REALLY need to amp up our analysis of work and the comments that come out.  I don't mind the fact that someone doesn't like something -- moreso _why_ they don't like something is probably more relevant.)
<KidProQuo> Skiessi: I just got sick of everything being round and glossy, thought I'd do something a bit different to get some discussion going
<troy_s> KidProQuo: If you manage to develop a full theme, you will probably find a place for it in the Community package (or at least the hope-to-manifest community package)
<Skiessi> o_o ok, I prefer the round ones
<Skiessi> cya
<nothlit> theres an Automatic Artwork builder with full instructions on the wiki if you want to have it in your own package as well
<nothlit> i should put links to that in the resources page actually
<_MMA_> Yeah. Can you post that here? I forgot it myself.
<nothlit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomaticArtworkBuilderInstructions
<troy_s> LOL
<troy_s> oh man
<_MMA_> Wow. That hasnt been touched since June. :)
<KidProQuo> Anyway, I should probably explain some of the underlying concepts of that theme idea...
<troy_s> KidProQuo: People working on anything are valuable.
<KidProQuo> I wanted to use mainly flat colours with transparency to give the texture of the popular lion wallpaper a bit of space to show its richness
<KidProQuo> The choice of a well defined border is for usability; so your eye has a definite border between different sets of info on the screen
<KidProQuo> And the squareness of the borders was just to take it to the other extreme of what a lot of other people seemed to be doing for themes. I'd probably blunt them a bit in the final one
<troy_s> KidProQuo: is that gion?
<KidProQuo> gion?
<troy_s> KidProQuo: Icons
<KidProQuo> nope, nouveXT 1.6
<troy_s> Hrm... is that in the repos KidProQuo ?
<troy_s> It looks tastier than tango for certain
<KidProQuo> It's on gnome-look.org; GPL but not SVG version available.
<nothlit> !find nuov
<ubotu> Found: gnome-icon-theme-nuovo, kde-icons-nuovext
<KidProQuo> oh, and in that mockup the menubar is still just a concept. I'm writing up a detailed spec at the mo, but a brief overview is available on: http://sam.bristow.googlepages.com/
<troy_s> KidProQuo: So you are going to code it?
<troy_s> KidProQuo: Most of the general feel should be obtainable using the pixbuf engine.
<KidProQuo> I'm going to write up the full spec and put up a bounty.
<KidProQuo> Everything I've done, I'
<KidProQuo> ^'ve included a fallback to metacity
<nothlit> a bounty? :o
<KidProQuo> I put up some $$$ up for whoever is able to code it.
<troy_s> KidProQuo: Don't expect much.  Perhaps hammering away with pixbuf would get it done sooner?
<nothlit> lol, i know what it is, i'm just suprised a nondistro/large project would put up one
<KidProQuo> It's not just a cosmetic change though, there's actually a few different *functionality* changes.
<troy_s> nothlit: Is there a centralized bounty site out there anywhere?
<KidProQuo> nonhlit: I'd do the bounty through Canonical
<troy_s> nothlit: I would love to see a 'bountyhunter.org' or whatever.
<_MMA_> nothlit: Trust me. $ talks. I offered $100 dollars to get a kernel issue worked out the other day.
<troy_s> _MMA_: 100$?  I can't imagine anyone bit.
<troy_s> _MMA_: Am I wrong?
<_MMA_> No it got fixed. ;)
<_MMA_> Didnt take the money though.
<_MMA_> It almost sunk the -rt kernel but I scrambled and got it done.
<nothlit> troy_s: not a foss, prolly just those freelance coding sites
<nothlit> ubuntu has its own bounty page
<nothlit> as do many other projects
<troy_s> it really needs to get into launchpad or some centralized repo
<_MMA_> grr...
<KidProQuo> I agree, and they need to add the ability to do collective bounties.
* _MMA_ really hates when people take others art, mod it and doesnt give credit.
<nothlit> oh, guess there is :) https://www.bountysource.com/project/list
<nothlit> troy_s: ^
<KidProQuo> I should probably head to work. Thanks for the feedback
<nothlit> ubuntu is in there too
<nothlit> nice.. its filled with 0 dollar bounties
<_MMA_> troy_s: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming/Icons Ill get more info up soon.
<_MMA_> troy_s: And as I look at Litho more, there's 2 things going on there. There is a subtle white overlay then the subtraction or holes/whatever.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-29
<kwwii> Cimi: ok, will do tomorrow
<kwwii> Cimi: I might bug you about it tomorrow, will you be online?
<kwwii> I've been waiting for the final update :-)
<_MMA_> kwwii: Gonna be a late night again?
<Cimi> kwwii, no I won't
<Cimi> maybe tuesday
<Cimi> *maybe*
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, some asshole is making me work on a fscking folder icon...like the other guy who wants a mockup of a style in the last stages of an ubuntu release :p
<kwwii> Cimi: ok, I'll call you cell phone
<kwwii>  :p
<kwwii> you would shit
<kwwii> "hey, this is ken, how's the coding going?"
<Cimi> =)
<_MMA_> kwwii: I'll send the check after I get the folder.
<kwwii> _MMA_: I love you too
<_MMA_> ;)
<kwwii> Cimi: btw, there were bug reports about the transparency in apps
<Cimi> you should disable the transdparency
<Cimi> rgba = FALSE
<kwwii> I will still biuld the engine with the rgba stuff but out themes will not have it
<Cimi> and animations (why you added them?)
<kwwii> I think that eventually it might be usefull
<kwwii> and some people might want it
<kwwii> and it does work unless you do funky stuff
 * _MMA_ has never had issue with animations.
<kwwii> well, it works where it works
<kwwii> Cimi: that is something that psyke always adds, I take it out again and again
<kwwii> it is a mistake
<Cimi> kwwii, disable at compile
<kwwii> mdz and sabdfl hate the animation
<_MMA_> No
<Cimi> me too
<kwwii> Cimi: why?
<kwwii> Cimi: if the theme is not using rgba who cares?
<Cimi> those animations are quite useless
<Cimi> kwwii, I mean the animations
<kwwii> definitely
<_MMA_> Don't cripple the engine. Change it in themes.
<kwwii> yes, the animations I agree with
<kwwii> :-)
<Cimi> or I will remove them in the code
<Cimi> ;)
<_MMA_> Great. Keep us in the 90's.
<kwwii> I let Conn try what he things is right, it is his right to prove his point (even if I revert it) if he does the work
<kwwii> he turns on the animations every time
<kwwii> :-)
<kwwii> I think he likes them
<kwwii> Cimi: I think you expect the same treatment :-) I cannot just ell you what I want and expect to get it, artisticaly
<kwwii> s/ell/tell
<Cimi> I'm rewriting the glaze function: I hope to achieve the same look while reducing a LOT the code
<Cimi> it will land in rev 80
<DanaG> Oh yeah, will you at some point end up changing the "focus" style?
<Cimi> of course
<Cimi> but I REALLY need a mockup that works with any colorscheme
<Cimi> wohooo
 * Cimi is happy of his new code
<Cimi> proud, not happy ;)
<Cimi> finally less code to maintain Â°_Â°
<Cimi> :')
<DannyKing> I've no idea what code you're working on, but sounds like a great improvement :)
<Cimi> DannyKing, basically for every widget I got repetitive code to draw the glaze effects
<Cimi> something like 30 lines for every widget
<Cimi> now there's only one line ;)
<Cimi> the main advantage is that if there's a bug you have to change in one place for the whole look
<Cimi> but for the look... If I didn't make mistakes it is the same, bugged otherwise =)
<DannyKing> sounds like good work :)
<DannyKing> What widgets are those?
<Cimi> every widget is subject to glazestyle
<Cimi> buttons
<Cimi> sliders
<Cimi> progress
<Cimi> scroll
<Cimi> toolbars
<Cimi> menubars
<DannyKing> Desktop widgets?
<Cimi> listview
<Cimi> DannyKing, gtk+ widgets
<DannyKing> ahh understood :)
<Cimi> DannyKing, I'm the author of murrine engine
<Cimi> I'm optimizing ity
<DannyKing> Cool, I'm afraid I've never done any theming so I'm ignorant to much of this stuff... but I do appreciate it!
<Cimi> - 500 lines!
<Cimi> WOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 * DannyKing does a victory dance
<DannyKing> The website I've been working on for far too long is fiiiiinally finished
<agosto> hello
<rsc-> hey there MMA.
 * _MMA_ , in his sleep-deprived state, waves.
<PRGUY85> hehe hello MMA
<_MMA_> Well, I actually took a long nap. That's why Im still up. :)
<rsc-> lovely
<rsc-> what timezone are you guys in anyway?
<PRGUY85> its 11:41PM here
<_MMA_> same
<PRGUY85> im on eastern time with no daylight saving
<PRGUY85> hey when is the intrepid beta going to release/
<rsc-> look at the schedule
<_MMA_> !schedule
<ubottu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
<rsc-> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
<_MMA_> Hmm... U thought the bot knew as well.
<_MMA_> s/U/I
<PRGUY85> I know
<PRGUY85> I know where to look hehe
<PRGUY85> just wondering if they will keep to the date
<rsc-> PRGUY85, got new dust scrollbars btw
<rsc-> it sucks too, im sure
<PRGUY85> hey don't get all depressive on me haha
<PRGUY85> I never said they sucked
<rsc-> :p
<PRGUY85> I'm liking the new toolbars
<PRGUY85> why not use black like the original mockup?
<rsc-> too strong.
<PRGUY85> what is the color of the selected scrollbar?
<PRGUY85> is that the default? light sand? or does it turn darker?
<rsc-> slightly lighter
<PRGUY85> slightly lighter when selected?
<_MMA_> rsc-: I'm liking the new Dust stuff. We gotta tinker with a Studio version in a couple of weeks.
<rsc-> Sand is just a extra variant (not part of Dust)
<PRGUY85> okok
<PRGUY85> well show me the latest Dust perse scrollbars
<rsc-> for the people bitching about dust being too dark. :b
<PRGUY85> hahaha
<PRGUY85> hey you don't have to cater to anyone
<PRGUY85> lots of people love Dust as it is.
<rsc-> yeah, but I thought "i wonder how it'd look?"
<rsc-> not sure about releasing it
<rsc-> needs a lot more polish at this point.
<PRGUY85> I'm right now using Shiki Brave with the default Fedora 10 wallpaper because I'm going through a Fedora phase haha
<rsc-> it's more of a "proof of concept" for now
<PRGUY85> but I'll return to New Wave/Dust soon.
<PRGUY85> by the way, did you guys see the Echo icon theme for Fedora 10?
<PRGUY85> it's interesting, quite different to what I would expect in Ubuntu
<_MMA_> People who use their birth year in their nick make me feel old.
<PRGUY85> haha sorry MMA
<PRGUY85> I feel kinda old too at times nowadays
<PRGUY85> when I started using it I was like the young nerd fellow
<PRGUY85> hehe
<MMA76> :P
<PRGUY85> hahahahahah
<PRGUY85> offtopic, I have this issue, Dilomo left me in charge of New Wave....yet I know nothing about fixing theme errors.
<_MMA_> Sounds like time to read up or ask a specific question.
<_MMA_> Most likely both.
 * _MMA_ goes to make a snack, then try to sleep.
<PRGUY85> hehe probably, although I don't know what else to do to the theme.  Right now I think it's pretty functional and fits Ubuntu.
<PRGUY85> rsc-, you've got any previews of Dust for me? hehe
<rsc-> PRGUY85, the mailing list.
<rsc-> i just posted some screenshots
<PRGUY85> I know, but I want to test haha not see
<rsc-> ahh.
<rsc-> lets see how dcc works
<PRGUY85> dcc?
<rsc-> argh. it probably won't work over a router.
<rsc-> no worries.
<rsc-> er
<rsc-> okay
<rsc-> it worked *shrug*
<PRGUY85> both failed
<PRGUY85> send again
<rsc-> i knew it.
<rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/Dust-0.2.tar.gz
<rsc-> and
<rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/Dust-extras-0.2.tar.gz
<PRGUY85> ok can I drag/drop or do I have to extracT?
<rsc-> drag/drop should hopefully work. else, untar to ~/.themes
<PRGUY85> worked drag/drop
<rsc-> gasp!
<rsc-> *snicker*
<PRGUY85> what's dust burnt
<rsc-> ah, haven't mentioned that
<rsc-> "dust burnt" is just a placeholder name for the old Dust where all toolbars are dark
<PRGUY85> oh let me see
<rsc-> in the main "dust" now, only a few apps have dark toolbars
<rsc-> i.e., firefox (w/ theme), nautilus, gedit, evince, eog...
<rsc-> basically browser- and viewer-type programs.
<rsc-> i explained the rationale in the ML
<PRGUY85> ok give me one example of one that has dark toolbars
<PRGUY85> and one that hasnt
<rsc-> with dark toolbars: the ones above
<PRGUY85> ok
<rsc-> without: almost everything else. aisleriot, bluefish...
<PRGUY85> ok Im seeing that
<PRGUY85> I think it's a step in the right direction
<PRGUY85> like the scrollbars a whole lot more
<rsc-> haha, great to hear.
<PRGUY85> and the mix of dark/light is good
<PRGUY85> and programs still feel part of a cohesive theme
<PRGUY85> great work
<PRGUY85> one thing, where can I get all those good wallpapers you use on the theme previews
<PRGUY85> I was really trying to get the one from the original mockup and I really like what I saw on the others
<rsc-> on my hd :P
<rsc-> hmm.
<rsc-> I thought i lost the original dust wallpaper
<rsc-> I remember I found it on a now-defunct texture site.
<rsc-> oh wait.
<rsc-> nah.
<rsc-> its on sxc.
<rsc-> http://sxc.hu/photo/556576
<PRGUY85> I'm sending you how intrepid would look with Dust at the moment hehe
<rsc-> i recolored it though
<rsc-> can you use imageshack.us or similar?
<rsc-> i cant receive over irc, i think
<PRGUY85> ok ure
<PRGUY85> I've got to sign in to get the wallpaper, darn
<rsc-> www.bugmenot.com/view/sxc.hu
<PRGUY85> rsc-,   http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshottv0.png
<rsc-> must. make. iconset!
<PRGUY85> saw the image/
<PRGUY85> ?
<rsc-> yes
<PRGUY85> what do you think of that new wallpaper on intrepid
<rsc-> not bad at all.
<rsc-> a little stale, but what can you expect
<PRGUY85> well not bad but yea it is stale
<PRGUY85> any progress on icons?
<rsc-> no sorry
<rsc-> i'm personally waiting on breathe
<PRGUY85> didn't you say must.make.iconset?
<rsc-> yes
<rsc-> I was hoping to leverage on breathe's work though
<PRGUY85> http://mso-chronicles.blogspot.com/2008/09/echo-new-package-releases-first-echo.html
<PRGUY85> look at the latest echo theme
<PRGUY85> doesn't fit ubuntu in any way but it's quite nice
<rsc-> ss?
<PRGUY85> ?
<PRGUY85> what rsc-?
<PRGUY85> rsc-?
 * DanaG turns off auto-join, until PulseAudio stops dying... and dying... and dying... and dying... and dying... and dying... (and so on).
<Ziroday> kwwii: any news?
<Borzo> gidday
<carciofo> hi
<carciofo> what do you doing artwork?
<carciofo> ok
<carciofo> i making some artwork
<carciofo> but i need help
<carciofo> try to convert ogg theodora to avo
<carciofo> i
<Ziroday> carciofo: an easy way to do that is using avidemux
<carciofo> tat nich funzen
<Ziroday> sorry I don't speak german
<carciofo> k
<carciofo> i need to know the settings
<Ziroday> carciofo: you might have more luck asking in #ubuntu or your loco's channel for that type of query. Unfortunatly I am not too sure :)
<carciofo> i make some art, i said
<carciofo> and thats a full time job
<carciofo> i always have to looking for
<carciofo> what i need, is someone to ask
<DannyKing> _MMA_: Good news, I finished that web project I was working on early and I am meeting the client today. If she has no objections with the final result I will have a few days that I can use to work on Breathe before uni - so you should see some work out of me :)
<carciofo> hey
<DannyKing> hello
<carciofo> what a web project is it?
<DannyKing> Oh just a small website for a local magazine :) It's not online yet but should be once the client says OK!
<thorwil> hi!
 * _MMA_ waves
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Sounds god.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i wrote a mail to Sebastian Porta with feedback on his submissions. very positive reaction from him and he will follow my invitation to join us here
<_MMA_> thorwil: Good. Link to his work?
<thorwil> _MMA_: Breathe submissions page, duh :)
<thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions
<thorwil> the 2nd bin is new
<thorwil> _MMA_: he told me he started using inkscape only a few months ago and lacks experience. in this concept, i think the 2nd user-trash is very promising
<thorwil> s/concept/context/
<_MMA_> Agreed.
 * _MMA_ *totally* forgot to subscribe to that page. Does so now.
<thorwil> how do we handle feedback to submissions appearing on the wiki without accompanying mail in future?
<_MMA_> thorwil: I think we should mandate participation on the ML. Otherwise, we just monitor the wiki diligently.
<thorwil> _MMA_: ok. else we would need to add comments right there
<_MMA_> I think if we like it, we add it to the /Icons page. Discuss on the ML.
<_MMA_> Hell. Ill add the 2nd trash one now if you want.
<thorwil> _MMA_: with only few changes, the new trash would be an improvment over Oxygen's already
<thorwil> heh
<_MMA_> :P
<thorwil> _MMA_: i'll post to the list with feedback on that one, combined with pointing out that we would like to see posts to the list on submissions
<thorwil> _MMA_: if you are ok with that
<_MMA_> Sure. Sounds good.
<_MMA_> Hmm...
<_MMA_> You guys think I should ask for submissions on both trash states?
<_MMA_> s/I/we
<thorwil> sure, we need them, or not?
<_MMA_> Not sure. :)
<thorwil> _MMA_: we needs them! :)
<carciofo> does anyone of you idetifying with artist?
<thorwil> carciofo: i think you have to explain that question
<_MMA_> Ill be back in a bit. Gotta do some house stuff and see my daughter off to school.
<kwwii> see you
 * _MMA_ expects a folder from kwwii upon return.
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> thorwil: I'm gonna add the 2nd trash to BZR with notes about needing smaller sizes for now.
<_MMA_> You fine with that?
<thorwil> _MMA_: needing smaller sizes?
<thorwil> _MMA_: btw, saw my note about 22 in 24 px yesterday?
<_MMA_> Yeah. The ones that are there all looked like scaled versions of the larger one.
<_MMA_> thorwil: Yes. I saw. It's supposed to be like that.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i jsut hope that doesn't lead people to make 24px icons
<_MMA_> 24px is the same as 22px with padding.
<_MMA_> Ill fix is someone does.
<thorwil> _MMA_: i actually just send my mail with criticism on that bin and said that i'm not fine with moving it over yet
<_MMA_> I could drop the need for creating 24px and just note 22px.
<kwwii> one things you should not do (with breathe) is make everything orange :-)
<kwwii> _MMA_: some things still need 24x24
<thorwil> kwwii: yes. i'm worried about that, but is no surprise that a newcomer starts out like that
<darkmatter> yeah... make it crap-brown to match Mark's idea of asthetics ;P
<_MMA_> kwwii: Agreed. I was wondering what other colors would fit. Maybe a brown can with green arrows.
<_MMA_> darkmatter: No. Not that dark. :)
<thorwil> crap-brown can vary a lot ^^
<darkmatter> thorwil is correct, it all depends on what you digest the night before ;o
<_MMA_> kwwii: 24px would be created, but the artist actually only makes 22px. So we just don't mention 24px to avoid confusion.
<kwwii> ahhh, ok
<thorwil> darkmatter: eat enough carrots and you can shit toolbars!!
<_MMA_> hahahah
<darkmatter> haha
<thorwil> arg, titlebars of course
<thorwil> well, my post about that bin came back and offers a good place for additional notes. like about the color
 * thorwil -> coffee
 * darkmatter -> nicotine
<_MMA_> thorwil: Not that I don't consider the trash final at all. I just think it's fine to replace the Oxygen stuff with something else.
<_MMA_> *Note
 * _MMA_ notes that these submissions were most likely orange because the current Human one is.
 * darkmatter files bug to have the Human icons theme renamed to "Cheap Plastic"
<_MMA_> Don't be a crabby fart. ;) Start drawing. :)
<darkmatter> :P
<darkmatter> I am drawing... a shitload of UI mockups ;)
 * _MMA_ sends a unblockable three-stooges eye poke darkmatter's way.
<darkmatter> on paper of course, less hassle to make revisions. then I can start on the inkscape renditions
<darkmatter> bah... *send an unblockable gay convict to help _MMA_ relax*
<_MMA_> "Man Troy. You sure got here fast." :)
<darkmatter> ROFL
<_MMA_> :P
<aantn> blah
<aantn> getting paper mockups onto the computer is the most difficult part
<kwwii> _MMA_: http://sinecera.de/new.png
<Ziroday> kwwii: any news for me?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Isn't that still kinda saying Tango to you? It kinda lost that sharp feel it had.
<_MMA_> kwwii: The outline on the front-flap on the folder has become more pronounced. I gotta say. I'm still feeling KenV's folder but maybe with an added row of dots.
<kwwii> Ziroday: nothing yet, it will take some time, we have some new members of the team so they'll have to get up to speed before anything can be decided
<Ziroday> kwwii: sweet, thanks :)
 * Ziroday has plenty of time
 * aantn tries to decide whether he should fix some UA bugs or play with clutter
<_MMA_> kwwii: I updates the folder. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons You don't think this will fly? I'm inclined to go with it for now. Maybe let us all sit on it until something striking comes along?
<_MMA_> *updated
<_MMA_> I just added the other row of dots.
<thorwil> that additional row of dots kinda runs into the edge of the front
<thorwil> to me, the only good thing on the new one is that the magic white light on the bottom is gone
<_MMA_> A big detail which I was told Mark liked.
 * DannyKing just got back
<DannyKing> I miss anything?
<thorwil> _MMA_: i don't mean the glow, but the white line between shadow and folder
<DannyKing> I like the new bin too, although I don't like the colour
<_MMA_> thorwil: Oh! Gotcha.
<thorwil> DannyKing: seems no one here is fond of the orange there. best thing you can do is to speak up on the mailing list, right in the new thread
<thorwil> DannyKing: ideally with a specific suggestion
<DannyKing> You think I'll offend anyone if I submit an alternate design?
<thorwil> no
<_MMA_> Not at all.
<thorwil> DannyKing: anyone who would be offended by that wouldn't be in the right place here
<DannyKing> I'll give it a shot after that final meeting with the client (it's in an hour) assuming she doesn't want me to modify anything
<DannyKing> great :)
<DannyKing> I like the perspective of the bin
<_MMA_> Exactly. There should be (or we try not to) no egos here. Everything is up for revision/change at this point.
 * DannyKing wants to spend some time studying other main icon sets before starting work (human, tango, crystal, oxygen, OS X & Vista) - any other themes I should look in to?
<_MMA_> thorwil: Refresh in a min. Removed the white line. I'm not sure the dots being near the edge is such an issue. Moving them around to miss that edge doesn't look to work either. Just feels odd.
<_MMA_> Ok. Change has hit wiki.
<DannyKing> thorwil: can I ask what your feedback was to sebastian?
<thorwil> _MMA_: better. the dots are only good for making the transparency more obvious. and that obviously only above 48px ... :/
<_MMA_> thorwil: Agreed. It will need some chat.
<thorwil> DannyKing: Painting the Oxygen trash bin orange is a bit too simple. I don't think it's a good base, as the reflections on it are not convincing.
<thorwil> DannyKing: The trash icon should not carry the Ubuntu logo, as it may not be associated with trash ;)
<DannyKing> heh good point
<thorwil> DannyKing: The angle/perspective of the dictionary is interesting. The shading is rather good. Writing "Dictionary" on it doesn't help in all sizes up to 48 px, but it will rarely appear larger than that.
<_MMA_> I do feel this current one is better than kwwii's revision. Sorry Ken. It just smacks of Tango hard. :(
 * DannyKing agrees with all of that
<thorwil> i'm with _MMA_ there
<thorwil> bbl
<DannyKing> what did Ken revise?
<_MMA_> http://sinecera.de/new.png vs. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
<DannyKing> thanks
<DannyKing> Was it decided to do away with the curl on page icons?
 * DannyKing would like to work on a page icon first perhaps
<_MMA_> DannyKing: That's up to whoever submits ideas. It's wide open.
<DannyKing> Back in a while, meeting time
 * _MMA_ putters around the house for a bit.
 * _MMA_ goes to cut the lawn. bbs
<Cimi>  those icons look totally blurred
<Cimi> at 48px and less
 * DannyKing does the 'I got paid' dance
<rsc-> time now to treat the boys out to a drink and some pizza, yeah?
<rsc-> ;)
<DannyKing> hehe
<DannyKing> Does anyone know where I can find that web app that lets you compare icons together in a theme? (I think jimmac made it?)
<DannyKing> I can't find it anywhere
<_MMA_> http://users.freedesktop.org/~jimmac/icons/
<DannyKing> thanks :)
 * DannyKing downloads breathe from lp
<_MMA_> \m/
<DannyKing> bzr checkout https://launchpad.net/breathe-icon-set    right?
<_MMA_> Depends on the branch you want. https://code.launchpad.net/breathe-icon-set
<_MMA_> For trunk: "Get this branch: bzr branch lp:breathe-icon-set"
<kwwii> bzr checkout lp:breathe-icon-set
<kwwii> or branch, and then push
<DannyKing> thanks
<DannyKing> Is it OK to use patterns in Inkscape for breathe icons? Can pattern images be embedded in Inkscape SVGs?
<_MMA_> They can but I'd rather not.
<DannyKing> I think it'll be hard to create hyper-realistic icons without using texture
<DannyKing> Paper, for example, needs to be grainy
<_MMA_> Trace the texture.
<DannyKing> hmm, okay I'll play around with that
<_MMA_> k
<_MMA_> Messin' around. http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3586/screenshotgr2.png
 * _MMA_ notes that he has his fonts/icons set pretty small.
<thorwil> looks like default sizes to me
<thorwil> _MMA_: seems like the folders and Dust are a pretty good much for not being made for each other
<_MMA_> Oh well. Just what I had on. :P
<DannyKing> hi thorwil
<thorwil> hi DannyKing
 * DannyKing is working on the generic page icon
 * thorwil has been wasting his time on https://code.launchpad.net/~mudlet-makers/mudlet/artwork
<_MMA_> thorwil: Think I need to send a email about my upcoming lack of availability?
<thorwil> _MMA_: yes. the inmates have to know they are running the asylum now :)
<DannyKing> _MMA_: how long is that 1for?
<DannyKing> *for
<_MMA_> :P
<_MMA_> 4-5 weeks. I *should* be able to attend to things. Just not sit here all day and be able to chat.
<thorwil> _MMA_: well, if we will only notice on irc, no need to announce on the list
<_MMA_> Ok
<DannyKing> kwwii: you around? Am I right in understanding that stroke/lines should be avoided at all costs for an icon?
<kwwii> DannyKing: not necessarily but as a general rule it is not a bad idea
<kwwii> if you use lines correctly it can work though
<DannyKing> I want to have a dotted line with ~100 dots. As a line I could just set the stroke style, but as individual dots it'd increase the svg complexity a lot - which is a better scenario?
<DannyKing> (it's the perforated part of some paper)
<kwwii> you could use it there, but be aware that the number of dots will change with the size rendered
<DannyKing> mmm, that's a good point
<DannyKing> I'm assuming it's a bad thing to have very complex svgs as icons?
<thorwil> DannyKing: don't worry too much about svg complexity. they get rendered to png anyway
<DannyKing> but scalable is used too sometimes isn't it thorwil ?
<_MMA_> Only above 48px.
<kwwii> try to keep the svg as simple as possible
<DannyKing> Well at anything lower than 48px I wouldn't have the line dotted, it'd just be a blurred line
<kwwii> learning to draw in svg means learning to use complex gradients instead of just layering objects
<_MMA_> kwwii: At what size? Sometimes size dictates detail level.
<_MMA_> Ahh... Got ya.
<kwwii> _MMA_: definitely
<kwwii> the small sizes are very simple icons
<kwwii> making a 16x16 pixel icon is like trying to trick to the eye to see more than is really there
<_MMA_> Well I mostly had 256px in mind.
<_MMA_> I didn't want to shy away from detail at 256px.
<DannyKing> _MMA_: I'm working at 256 with ultra detail and I'll reduce detail exponentially at smaller sizes
<_MMA_> Exactly.
<kwwii> making the 256 version is really hard...I am not sure if it is a good idea
<DannyKing> kwwii: because of the detail?
<_MMA_> kwwii: Im gonna kick you. We already talked at length about this. We're doing it. :)
<kwwii> DannyKing: yes
 * DannyKing is hoping breathe /will/ be hard to make... hopefully it'll show in the final result
<kwwii> _MMA_: and I was against it to begin with
<PRGUY85> hello all
<thorwil> DannyKing: consider starting with 48px
<DannyKing> thorwil: and then adding detail rather than subtracting?#
<_MMA_> No!
<thorwil> DannyKing: yes. easier that way
<_MMA_> kwwii: What?! No way! We talked about having even bigger. 512px. Like Oxygen.
<kwwii> oxygen is 128x128
<_MMA_> thorwil: I don't agree. Start at 256. Work down.
 * _MMA_ looks at his source.
<kwwii> _MMA_: you cannot just work down, it won't work that way
<kwwii> unless some of the small icons look totally different
<_MMA_> Sure. Why not?
 * DannyKing will continue working at 256 on this icon and will try starting at 48 on the next icon and compare which feels easist
<thorwil> _MMA_: i'm just done with working downwards once. after this experience, i have to encourage the other direction
<kwwii> there is going to have to be a bit of leniency in the angle anyway
<kwwii> you will waste a lot of time making a nice big icon which can never be small
<kwwii> and then you will make a small version and from that a bigger version (usually)
<_MMA_> So? It will be used above 48px.
<kwwii> if you know exactly what you are going to do for the small version, ok, that is somoething different
<thorwil> good night :)
<PRGUY85> same thorwil
<DannyKing> night thorwil :)
<PRGUY85> como estas DannyKing
<_MMA_> I worry about the detail level of the sizes matching. Also the 256 size is creating for the future.
<_MMA_> Um... That didnt come out right.
<DannyKing> bien, cansado - termino un projecto por un cliento este madrugada, y tu?
<PRGUY85> cansado tambien estudiando para examenes de medicina.
<PRGUY85> Me canse de Fedora jaja.
<_MMA_> The 256 size shouldn't look like a 48px image scaled up.
<DannyKing> jo, que duro!
<DannyKing> kwwii: are you happy with the goal of 'hyper-realism'?
<PRGUY85> I like the hyper-realism
<_MMA_> kwwii: In the end, what I have in the folder icons SVG now at 48px isn't right. Its the 256 scaled down. It needs someone to revise that size and maybe the smaller ones. If we create 5 separate icons, so be it. But not creating hires sizes is a deal-breaker for me.
<kwwii> DannyKing: definitely
<DannyKing> cool :)
<kwwii> _MMA_: yes, for folder icons and the mimetype template and important apps and all actions you will need different smaller sizes, not just scaled down big versions
<_MMA_> Exactly. We got past that ideas days ago. So now you're confusing things.
<darkmatter> hyper-realism for what? Icons? If so it's a bad idea for anything at 48 or under, because you end up with an unregognizable blob of crap, kinda like tango but blurry
<_MMA_> We even talked about changing perspective for smaller sizes where needed.
<PRGUY85> I guess you already spoke about this but the new breathe trash icon submission is 10x better
<_MMA_> PRGUY85: Late to the party.
<DannyKing> PRGUY85: Yeah I really like the perspective
<kwwii> darkmatter: well, look at how oxygen deals with it
<PRGUY85> _MMA_ I imagined
<kwwii> things naturally get simpler in the small versions
<DannyKing> Although I don't like the colour and I'd like to add much, much more detail to it
<PRGUY> _MMA_ , dropped the 85 so you don't get depressed
<darkmatter> kwwii: but alas, that removes the 'hyper-realism' definition :)
<DannyKing> darkmatter: I agree. I think the idea is to have hyper realistic icons at sizes above 48px (not inclusive) and to have much more simplistic icons below
<andreasn> the most commonly used icon size in GNOME is 24x24, 256x256 is used in Gnome Do, but not many places apart from that
<kwwii> darkmatter: not when you are talking about having 256x256 icons as well as 128x128
<kwwii> erm, 64x64
<kwwii> andreasn: thank you
<darkmatter> 64x64 is very sensitive waters foe realism. not arguing, just sayin if you mess it up, I KILL U! :P
<DannyKing> lol
 * _MMA_ is thinking about the future with 256px sizes.
<_MMA_> Im gonna kill the next gmail user that top-posts.
<kwwii> _MMA_: maybe you could add it in bold at the top of the wiki :-)
<PRGUY> _MMA_ I think people don't even need to put the body of the post they are replying to
<PRGUY> just the RE: title
<PRGUY> or at least italics or something, its quite confusing
<kwwii> PRGUY: actually, that is important...but only the parts you are replying to
<kwwii> the rest of it can be <snip>'d out
<_MMA_> PRGUY: For technical chats, it's important to have the body there.
<kwwii> the point is to relay information in a clear way
<kwwii> the needless parts can be cut out without loss of information
 * DannyKing replies on the list
<_MMA_> DannyKing: It's pointless to do anymore.
<_MMA_> We need to add it to new users subscription notice.
<DannyKing> hmm? You mean no ones reading it?
<_MMA_> I could rant weekly about the amount of top-posting.
<_MMA_> Meaning, you get a notice when you subscribe right? We need to add notes about etiquette there.
<DannyKing> Oh, no I mean I was replying about the use of colour in the trash icon
<_MMA_> Ahh...
<DannyKing> Howdee rsc-
<rsc-> heyhey
<_MMA_> Hola
<rsc-> hows it going?
<_MMA_> Sitting round. Actin' like we know what we're talkin' about. :P
<DannyKing> hehe
<DannyKing> There's been some talk over what sizes should be used
<_MMA_> (on the Breathe icon set)
<PRGUY> hi rsc-
<_MMA_> kwwii: You wanna take a stab at the sizes under the 256 size for the folder? I think 32 and down for the most part but needs tweaks for sure.
<_MMA_> And nobody has replied to the question of dropping shadows under certain sizes.
<DannyKing> What question sorry _MMA_ ?
<DannyKing> Was that on the list?
<PRGUY> _MMA_, what do you mean, like not including shadows for smaller icons?
<rsc-> hey prguy
<DannyKing> Actually I think it should be the other way round, PRGUY
<rsc-> re: breathe, you gotta squeeze it in the guidelines: "easy on the orange!"
<PRGUY> rsc-, been using the new Dust. Like it.
<rsc-> all of the new icons are orange :))
<rsc-> PRGUY, thanks. :)
<DannyKing> rsc-: heh yes
<rsc-> PRGUY, just the original vanilla Dust?
<_MMA_> PRGUY: Exactly. At smaller sizes, wouldn't a shadow be a detail easily lost?
<rsc-> i haven't seen the q on dropping shadows, but i agree
<rsc-> also, dropping perspective
<_MMA_> Its on the wiki.
<DannyKing> well, yes - but you also need to have shadow to make it stand out more because it's so small
<PRGUY> _MMA_ I believe so, I don't notice shadows on smaller icons from a user perspective.
 * DannyKing goes and looks at oxygen smaller icons
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I think the color of the theme would be a bigger impact.
<PRGUY> rsc- , I believe vanilla Dust with the new scrollbars, the default.
<DannyKing> _MMA_: re the list message?
<rsc-> okay
<PRGUY> I am with rsc-, there should be brown/orange hints but it shouldn't overwork the theme.
<_MMA_> PRGUY: Agreed, but Im leaving that up to artists for now.
<rsc-> that's one flaw that the original Human icon set has.
<DannyKing> That means using objects that are brown/orange in real life, then
<rsc-> "oh, we need a color for the close button." .. "how about orange?"
<rsc-> and for the back button.
<_MMA_> Im sure we'll get to a point where we have enough icons with the use of orange that says "Ubuntu".
<rsc-> and for the trash, the folders, the kitchen sink..
<_MMA_> Then we can try to dictate some color use.
<PRGUY> well I think folders at the very least should have orange in them.
<_MMA_> Yes
<PRGUY> one thing that should be updated and differentiated are the media icons, like hard drive.  They really just look like a white block of nothing.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: The dropping shadow thing isn't on the ML. I would hope people interested would also keep an eye on the wiki.
<rsc-> actually i don't want orange on the folders myself, but unfortunately it's necessary
<DannyKing> rsc-: why is it?
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I'm sure Mark will want it.
<_MMA_> If we at least want a chance at default.
<DannyKing> Can we use orange cardboard...?
<DannyKing> as in... not shiny?
<PRGUY> not bad DannyKing hehe.
<PRGUY> like more of a matte look
<DannyKing> If my folders on my desk started shining that that I'd run away screaming
<DannyKing> *shining like that
<PRGUY> I think it would be more elegant, dropping the shiny factor.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I don't know. For now, I'm keeping whats there. I'm sure we will all feel different 6 months from now.
<PRGUY> I thought rsc- icon mockup was great at least in terms of color.
<DannyKing> Yeah. I guess we should wait until we have more icons, then we'll have a larger variety of styles to chose from
<DannyKing> *choose
<_MMA_> DannyKing: And the current folder isnt shiny. Just has a glow.
<rsc-> PRGUY, we can't use it for Breathe
<PRGUY> rsc-, reason being?
<DannyKing> _MMA_: yes true, shiny is the wrong word... but my point stands
<_MMA_> DannyKing: That glow was something I was told Mark likes.
<rsc-> PRGUY, thorwil wants a chance at being default.
<rsc-> PRGUY, the Human icon set was commissioned by Mark to a few designers. so the human folder, at least, will tell us what Mark wants [at one point in time]
<rsc-> so orange it is.
<rsc-> also, presonally I think the breathe folder should be tweaked at lower sizes to remove the gradient. The extravagant gradient is okay at large sizes, but obscures the image at lower sizes
<_MMA_> rsc-: Wanna have a crack at it?
<_MMA_> I'm satisfied with the 256 size for now. But the smaller sizes need work.
<rsc-> i've personally never used Inkscape for makign icons before :P
<DannyKing> rsc-: you'll love it ;)
<rsc-> how do i do this pixel-perfectly?
<_MMA_> Agreed.
<PRGUY> it's funny how we all cater to Mark, specially in a first name basis
<rsc-> and zomg wow inkscape has FOLDERS?
<DannyKing> rsc-: how do you mean?
<_MMA_> *cater*?
<DannyKing> PRGUY: notice that I don't ;p
<rsc-> how on earth do you do that?
<rsc-> (sorry noob!)
<DannyKing> kwwii: I managed to get the dotty effect using a very thin rectangle and a reflecting gradient :) Thanks for the tip
<rsc-> hmm, the outlines aren't strokes?
<DannyKing> strokes are evil I'm told :)
<_MMA_> rsc-: *Sometimes* it's good if it's not. Depends on how you manage things.
<rsc-> *gives up*
<rsc-> :P
<PRGUY> excuse me when you say you want a chance at being default, you mean this release (Intrepid)? or Jaunty?
<_MMA_> No way.
<rsc-> PRGUY, it won't be ready for this release
<DannyKing> PRGUY: no particular date, just... a chance some time
<_MMA_> For either.
<PRGUY> oh ok
<rsc-> and as far as I know, there's no target release to aim for
<PRGUY> good, that's what I thought
<DannyKing> Although I read several hundred times on the list archives that default was not a goal, just a happy event if it did happen?
<_MMA_> Exactly.
<PRGUY> yea default is a word I think has been exiled from the team in a way
<_MMA_> Im open to taking some cues to make it happen, just not having everything dictated by Canonical/Mark.
<DannyKing> Shouldn't we be aiming to please Mr. Shuttleworth's target audience of "web savy, professional youths" rather than Mr. Shuttleworth himself?
<_MMA_> It's a bit of both. ;) Mostly the former.
<rsc-> _MMA_, non-orange folders *grin8
 * DannyKing wonders if his walls are all orange ;)
<_MMA_> Brown. ;)
<DannyKing> hehe
<rsc-> DannyKing, when he made the decision to make the folders orange, I assume this was his way of persuing his vision of aiming for the target audience.
<rsc-> at least I'd assume so!
<_MMA_> Not *everything* needs to have target users in mind. We *can* do things because we think its cool ya know. :)
<DannyKing> I just don't see the connection between any colour at all and web savy professionals
<DannyKing> _MMA_: yes that's pretty important too, now you mention it :)
<DannyKing> If something is built with passion it'll be used with passion
<rsc-> IMHO, there's gotta be at least some higher-level vision in mind.
<_MMA_> Man. This should be kinda fun. :)
<rsc-> I think it's cool to make a trash can that's shaped like a robot, but obviously that won't fit Breathe's vision.
<_MMA_> rsc-: Trust me. There's more of it than ever before going on with this.
<DannyKing> lol
<DannyKing> Except it's still not well defined
<_MMA_> As far as the trash goes kwwii and I liked the squared one in human. So its good we have the current submission.
<_MMA_> I don't wanna get too bogged down in endless discussion though. We, even now, have way more thought in this than most other ubuntu-art projects.
<_MMA_> And we will still refine. If you have info to add to the wiki, please do. I can't be the only one.
<DannyKing> I agree. We should get some icons first so we have something to refer to, then discuss properly
<DannyKing> Hmm, is it bad that I'm adding layers to the template _MMA_ ? (e.g. I like to have one layer for basic shapes, one for shadows, one for fine detail, etc)
<_MMA_> DannyKing: As long as it's above the plate layer, I *think* you will be fine.
<_MMA_> BBut even that will get damn complex doing it that way with all the different sizes.
<DannyKing> I was a little confused as to which layer was meant to be drawn on. Is it the path/template layer? I just added one above it
<_MMA_> I guess we'll look at it when you are further along.
<DannyKing> I'm happy to combine it all into one layer at the end
<_MMA_> path/template yes.
<DannyKing> And is that meant to be renamed to the name of the icon?
<_MMA_> Yes. Should say that somewhere.
<_MMA_> If you grab the mime file that already there, it should be set up for you already.
<_MMA_> That's what should have been done.
<_MMA_> If I have a base icon already on the wiki, grab that SVG from now on. As I will already have set up all the proper names and metadata.
<DannyKing> in the Breathe/scalable/mimetypes folder? Doing bzr checkout lp:breathe-icon-set gave me lots of empty folders... :\
<DannyKing> K, will do
<rsc-> how do you get layer folders in inkscape?
<_MMA_> It should be empty. Thats setup for something else.
<DannyKing> rsc-: layer folders?
<DannyKing> _MMA_: ahh okay.
<DannyKing> _MMA_: so it was the source_svg folder you were talking about?
<_MMA_> rsc-: No folders but you can have sublayers.
<_MMA_> Same thing eventually.
<rsc-> how do you do that?
<rsc-> http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3562/screenshot1qj1.png
<DannyKing> Oh. Yeah it's not very obvious - make a new layer and choose "as sublayer of current"
<DannyKing> So, click a layer, then click the add layer button
<DannyKing> then it should ask where you want the layer placed
<rsc-> can you move layers to be a sublayer of another?
<rsc-> i mean if i made a toplevel layer
<rsc-> is there a way to make it a sublayer?
<DannyKing> No, you have to make a new layer and copy paste :(
<rsc-> haha.
<DannyKing> rsc-: how's it going?
<DannyKing> I put in a blueprint at launchpad to have better layer controls
<DannyKing> I wish I could drag and drop them around
<_MMA_> +1
<DannyKing> Actually you might be able to make a layer into a sublayer via the XML editor
<_MMA_> That heightens the probability it could be added to the GUI.
 * kwwii goes to bed
<DannyKing> night
<_MMA_> Night KEn.
<DannyKing> Hmm, Icon is starting to take shape now
<_MMA_> :D
<DannyKing> Just looking for a texture to make the paper look a little better. I'll play around with tracing it
<_MMA_> bbl. Dinner time. (going out)
<DannyKing> k, enjoy
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-09-30
 * DannyKing goes to edit the wiki
<DannyKing> _MMA_:  I've added my icon to the Discussions page. I'm not sure what I think of it. I like the detail (you'll notice the edges are slightly bent in places) but it may be too grungy / dark.
<DannyKing> I'm off to bed. night all
<Cimi> kwwii, ping
<mrooney> kwwii: around by any chance?
<rsc-> :D
<_MMA_> :(
<rsc-> :(?
<_MMA_> Just throwing up the opposite of yours.
<_MMA_> :)
<rsc-> haha.
<rsc-> dust 0.2 is out btw if anyone is following the developments.
<rsc-> it finally (I think!) maintains a good compatibility with the core applications i defined, so i guess its finally time to make it "stable"
 * _MMA_ is slightly bored. Should watch a movie.
<_MMA_> rsc-: Awesome. :)
<_MMA_> brb. updates
<PRGUY85> rsc-, I was thinking, do you need any help with gdm? At least, idea-wise?
<rsc-> PRGUY85, 0.2 is out btw
<PRGUY85> rsc-, is that the one I'm using?
<rsc-> yeah
<rsc-> i cant remember if i changed anything else
<rsc-> but anyway, for the GDM, I was hoping to do it myself.
<rsc-> gotta get time to do it though
<rsc-> the thing is, I dont want the GDM to just be a recycling of the old Dust elements (dark toolbars etc).
<rsc-> it needs something new.
<rsc-> for instance
<rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/dust-0929-alt-styles.png
<rsc-> that textured paper-y thing, that's something not found in the current theme.
<rsc-> but, nonetheless, fits it well (IMHO)
<rsc-> i think the GDM will need something like that, gotta think of what it is for now :)
<rsc-> i can do mockups but as for packaging a functioning GDM theme, taht im not sure about :/
<PRGUY85> well a good gdm should have the same default wallpaper for the theme
<rsc-> not necessarily IMHO
<rsc-> I guess thats just me and how I dont like the "lets use this everywhere" ideology.
<rsc-> perhaps a derivative of it, but not exactly the same.
<PRGUY85> hmm, well I think so.  To me it feels like you are just there and need password.
<PRGUY85> but with a different wallpaper, it feels detached.
<rsc-> the Win XP manages to do that well -- the GDM (its equivalent at least) looks different from the rest of the interface but somehow still connects.
<rsc-> it felt like a "doorway"
<PRGUY85> true, well do you think you should issue a default wallpaper, or just try to mesh with whatever Intrepid throws?
<rsc-> forget intrepid.
<rsc-> dust is outside intrepid
<rsc-> i would want a default wallpaper but honestly i dont know what that is yet :/
<PRGUY85> well I really liked the bark
<PRGUY85> didn't you use Rocks once?
<PRGUY85> also, I mentioned Intrepid since Dust is for Ubuntu and well Intrepid is the next release.
<rsc-> yeah
<rsc-> I liked the rocks
<rsc-> i just wonder if there's something else out there.
<PRGUY85> where can I find that wallpaper?  I used the Mac one with Dust one time.
<rsc-> check this out
<PRGUY85> the Mac Rocks hhee
<rsc-> http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/743/gaiarw4.jpg
<rsc-> whoa.
<rsc-> that wallpaper fits the theme so damn well.
<rsc-> i just wonder if there's something like that for dust
<rsc-> it feels like it was that very wallpaper that spawned the idea of that theme
<rsc-> i need something like that for Dust, but I have *no* idea what that is right now :)
<PRGUY85> yea
<rsc-> (if i dont find it, i'm settling with rocks)
<PRGUY85> send the rocks
<rsc-> i gotta redo the wallpaper version
<rsc-> with my color corrections and such
<rsc-> but lemme find the stock photo
<PRGUY85> ok
<PRGUY85> Im currently using Intrepid on my laptop to test it.  It works, theme works too although well its the same old.
<rsc-> same old?
<PRGUY85> well same old Human theme.
<rsc-> sxc.hu/photo/556576
<PRGUY85> with a bland yet functional wallpaper at the moment.
<rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/Rocks-2048x1536-rsc-edit.jpg <-- my edit, source unknown
<PRGUY85> hmm...
<PRGUY85> its nice yet I think it's too busy.
<PRGUY85> yet I don't think those were the rocks
<PRGUY85> more like those
<PRGUY85> http://markinhusp.deviantart.com/art/Rocks-72040885
<rsc-> how do i make gdm themes?
<PRGUY85> well I just know how to change backgrounds on existing themes.  However you could always do it by analizing a current gdm theme code.
<PRGUY85> and working backwards.
<rsc-> i dont know
<PRGUY85> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GdmThemes
<rsc-> i dont remember ever using rocks
<rsc-> but if i did
<rsc-> i probably used the ones from Leopard
<PRGUY85> the ones I sent?
<rsc-> yeah
<PRGUY85> hey GDM doesn't look that hard.  Hardest thing is just creating icons for it
<PRGUY85> I'm analizing new wave's current gdm
<PRGUY85> its quite easy, it's just creating the artwork for icons. box and just linking the file to them
<PRGUY85> so gdm displays those graphics
<PRGUY85> rsc-, current human volume icon on taskbar does not properly work with Dust
<rsc-> UGH, pixmap insensitive toolbar buttons are ugly
<darkmatter> rsc-: that would depend solely on the design of the button
<rsc-> lemme show
<rsc-> http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5576/insensitivesuckswd0.jpg
<rsc-> ARGH
<darkmatter> oh, you mean the icons on the insensitive... yeah
<darkmatter> there's a patch for that... just a sec
<darkmatter> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/gtk2-engine-pixbuf+(Patched)?content=77783
<rsc-> GTK needs a better pixbuf engine.
<rsc-> nice patch but i dont want any special dependencies for it :/
<darkmatter> ahhh
<darkmatter> yeah.. pixbuf is actually a very good engine, but the problem is that even though its maintained, it hasn't actually been updated in ages
<darkmatter> in other words... it's old
<rsc-> also.. it didnt change anything
<rsc-> maybe i gotta log out first
 * DannyKing arrives on the scene
 * DannyKing goes to get coffee
<DannyKing> Je;;p
<DannyKing> er
<DannyKing> *hello
<DannyKing> hi _MMA_
<_MMA_> Yo
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Your torn sheet of paper icon is a SVG?
<DannyKing> yep
<_MMA_> Looks good.
<DannyKing> Thanks :) The ripped side took ages
<_MMA_> Ya think we should add lines?
<DannyKing> doesn't look fantastic on dark backgrounds though
<DannyKing> _MMA_: I considered it, yeah. I thought it might look good (perhaps only for the larger sizes)
<_MMA_> Sure.
<DannyKing> Oh I edited the front page of the wiki a little
<_MMA_> I saw.
<DannyKing> Agree / disagree?
<_MMA_> Anyone subscribed to the page get notified.
<_MMA_> Loos fine. No problem here.
<DannyKing> ah ok. I subscribed too
<_MMA_> *Looks
<DannyKing> cool
 * DannyKing is trying to get a new printer working in Ubuntu
<_MMA_> Brand?
<DannyKing> Samsung
<DannyKing> It's supported apparently
<_MMA_> k
<_MMA_> I've had *awesome* luck with HP.
<DannyKing> Yeah?
<DannyKing> I've heard some just work in Ubuntu now, easier than the Windows install, heh
<andreasn> _MMA_: I tried to call HP to check if their printer would work in Ubuntu before I bought my printer. The dude answered "uhhh...I don't know man, did you try google?"
<andreasn> _MMA_: so I bought it, plugged it in and started scanning and printing right away
 * DannyKing loves Ubuntu :)
<_MMA_> andreasn: I just check the CUPS site most of the time. Last time I bought one it was pretty close to their latest model and everything works. USB/Network use. Access to all options.
<_MMA_> I gotta set it up to serve the printer driver though to windows machines.
<andreasn> oh, network printers works well too? cool
<_MMA_> I tested it, though I use it USB.
<DannyKing> Network printing works great here
<DannyKing> Although it took me two years to work out I need to enable some arcane setting on XP buried deep in the control panel to allow unix clients to print through it :\
<_MMA_> DannyKing: So for a standard mime icon you think you're gonna do something like the paper one minus the torn edge?
<DannyKing> I was going to use the torn version - you think it's too complex for the standard mime icon?
<_MMA_> DannyKing: And I think the torn icon looks fine on dark backgrounds. I seems light ones are the issue. Guess the shadow that needs to go here could set the tone for the set.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I do. But we can see what others think.
<DannyKing> Sure thing
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Am I wrong in this is missing the "fiber" feel in the paper?
<_MMA_> s/feel/texture
<DannyKing> Well, the left column actually has a very transparent (2%) sand texture over it which I was using just to test it out, although it's probably /too/ faint, I can't find a way to comfortably add a grainy effect without using a bitmap pattern
<joshuablount> hello everyone! I wanted to ask about the maximize / minimize button in the "dusk" theme... anyone feel like fielding that question?
<_MMA_> joshuablount: The guy to best answer isnt around atm.
<joshuablount> Np, may I have his IRC nick? I'd love to hear a bit about his decisions.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Oh! I got a great idea for image filetypes. Ill put in the response to you submission. I'm also gonna split the topic off.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Duck is Rico correct?
<DannyKing> sure, what's the idea?
<_MMA_> gah
<_MMA_> Dusk
<DannyKing> Not sure, sorry
<DannyKing> joshuablount: you can take a look at the ubuntu-artwork mailing list archives
<DannyKing> plenty of discussion about dust there
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Read the email in a min. :)
<DannyKing> k
<_MMA_> joshuablount: I believe it's rsc-.
<joshuablount> _MMA_: DannyKing: Thanks, and I'll sort through the mailing list and see if I can find my answer.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Check email.
<DannyKing> Could you elaborate on the image idea? Do you mean like a page torn from a scrapbook with an image stuck to it, or just a blank torn page?
<_MMA_> Im just thinking about the base image. A piece torn from a sketchbook. The non-spiral kind.
<DannyKing> It's a nice idea - I personally connect that with sketching/planning/drawing rather than all images. I don't see the immediate link between a sketchbook and a photograph, for example
<_MMA_> Yes. One of the reasons I mentioned having multiple mime backgrounds we could use.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Don't laugh. I drew this in 5 seconds. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Untitled.png But something like that? Little torn edge into the page?
<DannyKing> Oh I think I understand, so for mime icons there will be a background that is paper, but different paper depending on the type of icon? e.g. a .doc would have a sheet of writing paper with an emblem suitable for word processing on top, and a .jpg would have a sheet of sketchbook paper with an emblem on top?
 * DannyKing looks
<DannyKing> Yeah I see what you mean, I like the concept. Just trying to make sure I understand ^
<_MMA_> Something like that yeah. Would need some chat. As a .jpg *could* be a drawing or a photo.
<DannyKing> true
<liw> hi! would anyone be able to help me with getting an icon for system-cleaner(-gtk)? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CleanupCruft is the spec for the app
<_MMA_> liw: kwwii is the guy to talk to.
 * liw waves to kwwii
<DannyKing> _MMA_: I'll do a brainstorm and some sketches for idea for mime types and types of paper
<_MMA_> cool
 * DannyKing just got a new scanner (I've been  shopping, can you tell? ;) ) so that might help with my design process and texture issues
 * _MMA_ bought a 8 year-old flatbed scanner to make sure it worked.
<DannyKing>  So when do you leave for the south, _MMA_ ?
<kwwii> _MMA_: why am I the guy to talkt o?
<liw> kwwii, you are the source of all pretty bits?
<_MMA_> DannyKing:  6 days.
<kwwii> hehe, right
<DannyKing> That lines up with me moving to uni
<_MMA_> kwwii: Since you put things into Human icon set you are the best to talk to.
 * liw is suddenly struck by the thought that _no_ icon is the cleanest possible icon, which would suit system-cleaner fine
<kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, ok
<kwwii> liw: I might find time to get something done, but it will take a day or two
<DannyKing> liw: heh
<liw> kwwii, no worries -- it's fine if system-cleaner ships without one, but I thought I'd ask in case there's someone looking for an icon they could make
<liw> kwwii, if you get something done, very much thank you
<kwwii> liw: I'll let you know :-)
 * kwwii woke up with a nasty head cold this morning :-(
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I have things set up to where I should be able to handle any email and BZR uploads.
<DannyKing> Cool. I expect to take a step back for a few weeks, but I remain interested
<_MMA_> kwwii: Aww.... Wanna get some hot soup then spoon in bed?
<kwwii> _MMA_: oh baby, don#t you know it
<_MMA_> :P
<DannyKing> _MMA_: Assuming all different mime types have a paper base
<DannyKing> what kind of paper could be applied to documents that only exist in the digital world, e.g. SVG
<DannyKing> .htm
<DannyKing> etc
<_MMA_> Something generic like what is on the wiki now I suppose. Though kwwii wants to get away from the curled page.
 * DannyKing does too
<_MMA_> Agreed
<DannyKing> an idea I had a while ago for emblems for different types of images files was this:
<DannyKing> http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=130208kp8.png
<DannyKing> (don't think it applies to breathe but it's a conversation point, at least)
<DannyKing> you can see there that the images display the properties of that image type, so gif has limited colours, png has transparency, jpg has more colours than png, etc
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Hmm... Interesting. If you want to work on it, revise to fit what we're trying to do here, go ahead. Make up a proposal and submit to the list.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I do really like some of the details you have there.
<DannyKing> Thanks
<DannyKing> turns out it's a bad idea to have text that's meant to be read in icons
<DannyKing> anything smaller than that and the whole idea breaks down
<DannyKing> I'll take a stab at doing .png .gif, .jpg and .svg
<_MMA_> DannyKing: "turns out it's a bad idea to have text that's meant to be read in icons" What do you mean?
<_MMA_> A simple label like "FLAC" on the icon in the text like in the .php icons?
<DannyKing> Those icons I just pasted have the extension text (.htm, .css, etc) in the actual icon which was silly.
<_MMA_> The "code" detsil?
<_MMA_> *detail
<DannyKing> the code is fine, but the black part at the bottom breaks down at anything smaller than that size
<DannyKing> should have just been without that grey part
<_MMA_> I actually like that. Especially for audio icons. A simple waveform graphic doesn't tell me its a FLAC file at a glance.
<DannyKing> true
<_MMA_> I did this: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/audio-x-flac.svg
<_MMA_> For a large handful of audio types.
<_MMA_> But the label is pretty large.
<DannyKing> Thats nice, I like the detail - we could musical notation for audio file types?
<_MMA_> Sure. Though, my arrangement sux there. I just never fixed it.
 * DannyKing starts to tidy up his page icon
<DannyKing> _MMA_: so how do you think I should adjust it to make it more suitable for the base mime icon?
<DannyKing> Just remove the tearing and have a flat sheet of white paper?
<_MMA_> Sure. See what you come up with. I hope kwwii and other respected members chime in.
 * DannyKing isn't sure what the torn page could be used for
<_MMA_> .txt, .conf
<_MMA_> I'm sure others.
<DannyKing> _MMA_: is it okay to use imageshack to host images for use on the wiki discussion page?
<DannyKing> I don't think they expire
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Sure. I do that myself because if you need to upload an image to the wiki with the same name you can't. I don't know the rational for that.
<DannyKing> Cool. take a look at the discussions page, updated the torn page to include smaller sizes
<DannyKing> I don't think I like the 48x48 one though
<_MMA_> Yeah. I think we can scale down a bigger chunk of the large one.
<_MMA_> Which is what it looked like what you kinda did.
<_MMA_> Or grabbed a section.
<DannyKing> Yeah I scaled up actually, then cut a section out
<DannyKing> The idea was to make it an A5 page rather than an A4
 * DannyKing didn't spend much time on it though
<DannyKing> I'm going to take a break, bbl
<thorwil> rsc-: hi! would you please put your replies on mail below the quoted part and also edit the messages to only contain what you directly refer to?
<rsc-> oh sorry
<rsc-> is that more acceptable?
<rsc-> (i personally hate it when people do that but okay :])
<DannyKing> hi thorwil
<thorwil> rsc-: it makes reading and discussion much easier. do-not-top-post is even official rule for the list, as it is for most free software lists
<DannyKing> hi rsc-
<rsc-> whats top-posting?
<rsc-> posting at the top?
<thorwil> rsc-: admittedly there are several people who do not follow these rules again and again, but after having endless threads about it on the list, it's getting tiresome. so i'm picking you juts because i care about your contribution
<thorwil> rsc-: yes, new material at the top, often a full quotation at the bottom
<rsc-> alright
<rsc-> sorry, most of my email experience is with Outlook in a corporate setting
<rsc-> forgive me :)
<thorwil> rsc-: no problem. i know switching between office and list style isn't easy
<thorwil> it's all microsofts fault!!!
<thorwil> oh, hello DannyKing
<DannyKing> How's it going?
<thorwil> raining all day and i get completely we 2 times :)
<thorwil> arg, got wet, i mean
<DannyKing> Ah that sucks
<DannyKing> Rained on me here too, but that's expected in England :)
<thorwil> would have fog otherwise, right? ;)
<DannyKing> hehe you can count on it
<DannyKing> lol... I googled "booting without swap" because I wanted to know how to disable swap on my linux box (don't ask) and one of the google results was "hotboots.com: a list for men who enjoy swapping boots with others"
<thorwil> heh
 * _MMA_ hasn't used swap in years. (just have alot of RAM)
<_MMA_> Well, on a production box anyway. My daily use laptop has a GB.
<_MMA_> GB of RAM. (desktop has 3)
 * thorwil learned that working on a large image in GIMP (with it being allowed to take almost all RAM) and at the same time trying to bzr push such an image is a bad idea
<Borzo> i am making a version of trash icon, for the breathe iconset. when i thought that the trash icon is overrated. maybe it could be changed to a toilet icon ;) a new challenge
<thorwil> Borzo: you mean the trash bin metaphor is overrated?
<Borzo> well a bit, but it is hard to come up with something better
<Borzo> and then everyone is used to the concept, soo....
<Borzo> if you change it to a toilet, it might not be intuitive anymore ;)
<Borzo> it would be amusing though
<thorwil> i think there have been toilet icons as replacement. at least for windows
 * DannyKing likes the current bin icon
<Borzo> really? but probably not part of the official iconset
<Borzo> which Os had the shredder, I think it was OS/2
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> DannyKing: current Ubuntu/Human or Breathe?
<DannyKing> breathe
<DannyKing> I have some reservations about it, but as I said on the list I think it's a nice icon
<Borzo> it is nice, but very similar to the human one, no?
<DannyKing> _MMA_: think I'll get away without having swap on a home ssh / bit torrent server?
<thorwil> Borzo: well, a nod to the Human icons now and then is a good thing. but it should be judged all by itself
<Borzo> thorwil: so breathe is not intendet to cut itself from the human iconset completely?
<DannyKing> Borzo: it's meant to combine elements of human, oxygen and hyper-realism
<thorwil> Borzo: it should became a better Human. post-human ;)
 * Borzo wonders if his trashcan falls into hyper realism
<Borzo> ah uber homosapiens!
<Borzo> ;)
<DannyKing> Borzo: are you Sebastian on the list?
<Borzo> DannyKing: no
<thorwil> DannyKing: he will likely use spg76
<DannyKing> ah yeah true I remember now
<_MMA_> DannyKing: My server has a GB of RAM and no swap. Its a file/print/game/torrent server. Works great.
<DannyKing> _MMA_: thanks
<DannyKing> What happens if it runs out of memory? Crash?
<Borzo> brb
<_MMA_> Usually some sorta lock up but it's never happened.
<_MMA_> Nothing uses enough RAM here. Never has anything leak either.
<_MMA_> *leaked
<DannyKing> gotta run, afk
 * _MMA_ thinks our community needs a feed on Planet. Something that says we don't do official art to the world and puts notes about what's up from time to time.
<thorwil> not a bad idea
 * _MMA_ ponders doing it after Intrepid is released.
<ethana2> Project KyÅ«dÅ?
<_MMA_> Click and read the link.
 * ethana2 is on the third page
<ethana2> ok, read it
<ethana2> sounds pretty abstract, but I like it
<ethana2> Anyone up for some general theme paradigm discussion or is this strictly theme production here?
<ethana2> I'm using ubuntu desktop+netbook here...
<ethana2> human-murrine with ubuntustudio colors
<_MMA_> ethana2: Many people are busy. Ask away. Note that any "this should be default" chat should be entered into lightly.
<ethana2> ah
<ethana2> I'll try not to make any absolute statements about ubuntu specifically
<ethana2> btw, _MMA_, do you have the dust theme working?
<_MMA_> As we don't any control over default art.
<ethana2> ah.
<_MMA_> ethana2: For the most part.
<_MMA_> I think Im not bleeding-edge.
<ethana2> ok, 'cause it won't work on my machine and it's driving me nuts
<_MMA_> rsc-: ^^^
<ethana2> i end up with dust title bars and the rest looks like windows 98..
<ethana2> hmm
<ethana2> Well, Dust 0.2 is out, and I'm trying to use that...
<_MMA_> You're most likely missing the engine, or, an update.
<ethana2> i installed the engine from a .deb...
<ethana2> Should I log out and back in to load the engine properly or something?
<_MMA_> Couldn't hurt. But I can't tell you for sure.
<ethana2> I don't want to bother if i'm not sure it'll work
<ethana2> i'll log out one of these days, you know, when there's a kernel update (suspend FTW)
<ethana2> Well, I'm using window-picker-applet right now instead of title bars
<ethana2> it's not completely mature yet, so it has some missing functionality..
<ethana2> I'm also using maximus, to get rid of title bars
<ethana2> ...what I'd really like is this:  window title in the window-picker-applet, applications, places, system to the left, clock and such to the right
<RyanPrior> Who's driving this flying umbrella?
<ethana2> window menu, toolbar, and controls all in one
<ethana2> RyanPrior: your name strikes me as familiar
<ethana2> but what you said makes little sense to me
<dashua> ethana2: Are you using murrine engine from trunk?
<ethana2> ......and the window menu, toolbar, and controls
<ethana2> no, 0.2
<RyanPrior> ethana2: I'm a contributor, so you've probably seen me around. I haven't been a member of the art community, but I'm thinking I'll have to get involved.
<ethana2> from the .deb posted today
<dashua> Well, I'm sure it's  the style to profile change.
<ethana2> hmm
<_MMA_> RyanPrior: The major effort right now is around the Breathe icon set and the KyÅ«dÅ guidelines.
<ethana2> gyarr, yeah, I'd really like to get Dust working, that would make me feel a lot better right now
<RyanPrior> _MMA_ thanks. I've been looking at KyÅ«dÅ on the wiki, but it doesn't seem to be an implementable specification in the least. Is there a more concrete plan somewhere?
<_MMA_> That *is* the plan for community focused efforts. It's in development.
<ethana2> should i remove the one i got from the ubuntu incoming art wiki today?
<dashua> ethana2: See if that works.
 * ethana2 drops it into appearances dialog
<ethana2> nope, same
<RyanPrior> Is there a central place for the Breathe icons or is that being orchestrated through the email list?
<_MMA_> Yes. The mailing list. Here for real-time chat.
<dashua> ethana2: I dunno then.  Working from the one I pulled from bzr.
<RyanPrior> I see there's a branch in Launchpad.
<_MMA_> RyanPrior: For? (there's 2 chats going on here)
<thorwil> _MMA_: why do you propose to ignore as reply to my attempt at a thread killer (i knew it wouldn't work)? ;)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Hmm... I don't understand. You think I want people to ignore you? If so, no. I want people to ignore the thread altogether.
<thorwil> _MMA_: no, it was clear that you proposed to ignore the thread. the thread i attempted to close with my mail ;)
<_MMA_> Ahh... Sorry. :)
<thorwil> RyanPrior: kyudo is at a stage before actual specifications. if you would just jump right in to write specs, ho would you know why your are doing it and what you want to achieve
<ethana2> i'm glad we have some sense of direction
<ethana2> actually thinking about things is double plus good
<RyanPrior> thorwil: Sure. However, since I was greeted with "our major effort is the KyÅ«dÅ guidelines," I thought perhaps they were further along.
<thorwil> would be nice to get some feedback/input on that level, but so far very few people seemed willing or able to work there
<thorwil> RyanPrior: i did have some help, but i'm still th sole author of everything on the wiki regarding kyudo. if i work on an icon or buy me new shows, it doesn't progress ;)
<RyanPrior> Oh, I'm not talking about icons or marketing junk. What I don't see from KyÅ«dÅ (and maybe I missed it) is an end-goal. What I did see is that we want to have good communication between teams so our arrows don't miss their mark - but that's hardly a new goal, and I don't yet understand how KyÅ«dÅ is supposed to fit.
<_MMA_> RyanPrior: It will be.... I'll let thorwil explain. :P
<thorwil> "Within in the long-term goal of achieving an optimal presentation for the Ubuntu GNU/Linux Distribution:
<thorwil> Create and deliver an optimal theme for each release, starting with Jaunty Jackalope. Where optimal means: made to the project participants best ability within a release cycle, with the aim to further the goals of Ubuntu."
<thorwil> RyanPrior: that's from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Foundation
<RyanPrior> Sure, but that's either vague or insulting.
<RyanPrior> It would be insulting if it was insinuating that the teams haven't been giving to the best of their ability.
<RyanPrior> If not that, it's vague as to how that goal is anything different from the expected norm - that people do the best they can to make releases look good given the time and resource available.
<_MMA_> Some haven't. That's for sure. (but besides the point)
<thorwil> RyanPrior: if that expected norm was so clear, i don't get why people don't just do it ...
<thorwil> RyanPrior: so the "obvious has to be spelled out"
<_MMA_> RyanPrior: It should also be noted that this isn't for the default art/processes. It will be guidelines to help community efforts.
<RyanPrior> So is this something Jono Bacon has weighed in on?
<_MMA_> No
<thorwil> RyanPrior: but the briefing is further enfolded with the imperative characteristics of the optimal presentation. not going to copy-paste that from the wiki now
<RyanPrior> thorwil: I've read the wiki, no worries.
<thorwil> RyanPrior: next steps should be to define what the selection of an audience actually means and to further describe the message we want to communicate
<thorwil> RyanPrior: afterwards, specs for wallpaper, windows and each widget could follow
<RyanPrior> "Linux for Human Beings" seems like a starting point. So, if I want to weigh in on those things is there a special KyÅ«dÅ mailing list?
<thorwil> no, it all happens (or doesn't) on the art list
<RyanPrior> That's surprising.
<thorwil> how so?
 * thorwil has to log out real soon now
<RyanPrior> If it's a community-wide project, I wouldn't have guessed that the primary venue would be the art mailing list
<RyanPrior> Thanks for chatting, I'm sure we'll have more to talk about later. :-)
<_MMA_> RyanPrior: It is only for art direction.
<_MMA_> And the art list is for community art. It in no way dictates the look and feel of Ubuntu.
<thorwil> RyanPrior: i hope so :)
<thorwil> good night!
<RyanPrior> _MMA_: where are the discussions which dictate look and feel of Ubuntu?
<_MMA_> RyanPrior: They are governed completely by Canonical. Some if it is here as it's art guy is part of our community. But ultimately, it's their show.
<RyanPrior> Ah. I've been watching the art process and I've been very disappointed, which is why I made up my mind to get involved.
<_MMA_> There's nothing that says community art wont find its way to default. We just have no say. It's best to forget about it and just create.
<_MMA_> So we will focus our own efforts to create great art. With packages freely downloadable.
<RyanPrior> Well, I'm not disappointed with what I see coming out of the art community. The mailing list and wikis are full of good work and ideas. The problem is, it isn't being distributed with Ubuntu!
<_MMA_> Sure. Just not anything we can do about it.
<RyanPrior> No wonder there are so many derivatives of Ubuntu which basically just have different art. I always assumed that the community drove the decision-making process for art. :-(
<_MMA_> No. The art has never been a reason for a derivative. Just so happens people like rebranding things.
<RyanPrior> Well, I can't imagine that at least some of the derivatives haven't been born out of frustration with the art community's work being ignored.
<_MMA_> As someone who has lead a derivative for years and been involved in the community, I haven't seen 1. Though, I'm sure one day it will happen.
<ethana2> Say, what's the default gnome window decorator?
<ethana2> I can't figure out how to get compiz' to do what I want and I wanted to swap it out
<_MMA_> ethana2: metacity
<ethana2> erm
<darkmatter> _MMA_: typo much? it's meta*shitty* :P
<ethana2> !ohmy
<ubottu> Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
<ethana2> blast
<ethana2> it dumped me back into metacity
<_MMA_> ethana2: You'll find that as long as it's not directed at anyone or excessive, swearing is fine.
<ethana2> heh
<ethana2> gosh dangit, and now it's not using my settings
 * ethana2 shakes fist
<RyanPrior> For the record, metacity is my favorite.
<RyanPrior> A window manager for people who hate window managers.
 * ethana2 is using it now
<ethana2> but I still despise the application/window decorator distinction
<ethana2> the reason osx looks so great is that it doesn't have it
<CimiDS> hi guys
<_MMA_> yo
<compacho> Hello
<kwwii> man, i am sick
<kwwii> i bet I slept 16 hours today
<CimiDS> bbl
<PRGUY85> sup fellas
<PRGUY85> rsc-, any changes in dust?
<compacho> hey guys. I'm relatively new to ubuntu and linux. (1 year exp) I'm wondering, why ubuntu doesn't use any real life photography for wallpaper rather than abstract images.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-01
<compacho> real things would seem more human than these current wallpapers
<ethana2> the next gnome ships some nice backgrounds
<ethana2> hopefully they're not removed
<ethana2> ...but there's no logical reason to remove them, so it'll probably actually have backgrounds this go around
<compacho> I'm not a photographer BUT I am quite good at photoshop. So maybe I can stitch some images together tastefully
<compacho> idk, how canonical would feel about the legalities of someone heavily editing photos together
<Cimi> compacho, photos are usually not suitable as a wallpaper
<Cimi> photos must have a focus, and when you have some focus you have too many details that makes the icons and the text not readable and distractive
<ethana2> yeah
<ethana2> visually noisy
<Cimi> that's why usually abstract wallpapers are chosen over photos
<ethana2> the best ones are translucent white or black abstract .pngs
<ethana2> that you can put gradients behind
<savvas> does this look.. ok (at least)? :P http://savvas.radevic.com/previews/ubuntu-cy-intrepid/ubuntucymeeting.png
 * DannyKing gets back
 * kwwii sleeps
 * _MMA_ pokes his head in.
<compacho> cimi and ethana2 I get what you're saying. I've used many photo wallpapers in the past that totally distracted me but If u look at some of apple's wallpapers, such as the grass blades one, they make sense
<compacho> I guess using real life photos without points of focus is the key
<ethana2> there are a few photos in the new gnome wallpaper
<ethana2> wallpapers**
<PRGUY85> hola
<compacho> ok, i seen the new gnome wallpapers. Pretty cool, but nothing thats "wow."
<compacho> and they're pretty similar too
<PRGUY85> yea compacho its pretty standard OS stuff
<compacho> If I had a nice camera and lens, I could reproduce some of those images.
<compacho> hmm...i might hafta put my money where my mouth is and create something
<PRGUY85> probably compacho
<PRGUY85> you trying ibex?
<compacho> is this channel the right place to submit artwork?
<compacho> no, not yet
<compacho> waiting for beta
<PRGUY85> well this channle is to discuss artwork
<PRGUY85> I suggest you submit stuff on the mailing list
<compacho> ok, its my 1st time here
<PRGUY85> well the latest updated alpha is pretty good
<PRGUY85> I know don't worry, I'm no vet either.
<compacho> cool
<compacho> I got into ubuntu on the Gutsy release and have been slowly learning everything about linux since then
<PRGUY85> have you used the Day of Ubuntu wallpaper?
<compacho> ....the one with the tree on a hill?
<PRGUY85> no no
<PRGUY85> it's got a tree though
<PRGUY85> I think it was in gutsy
 * compacho googles it
<PRGUY85> http://xs223.xs.to/xs223/08052/ubuntu-dawnofubuntu_1600x1200812.png.xs.jpg
<compacho> yepp, i meant that one
<compacho> see, that's similar to a wallpaper I wanna make. Its real and not real
<PRGUY85> the one I use is Day of Ubuntu which is a slideshow
<PRGUY85> changes according to time of day
<PRGUY85> use it with Dust or New Wave
<PRGUY85> look at this
<PRGUY85> http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2008/01/29/an-ubuntu-retrospective-in-wallpaper/
<compacho> most of them I don't like except dawn of ubuntu and the elephant skin
<PRGUY85> yea
<PRGUY85> although the brown ones were not that bad
<compacho> this is the frustrating thing about ubuntu. it has so much potential to look great
<PRGUY85> I think most were better than the current intrepid default
<PRGUY85> well most important thing is it works great
<PRGUY85> I used fedora for a day and missed ubuntu
<compacho> i don't like when people say "Is ubuntu still using the shit color?" I for one think brown can be made to look elegant
<compacho> walk into any classy coffe shop and u get an idea of how brown can be used
<PRGUY85> haha true
<PRGUY85> well
<PRGUY85> try to emulate that on ubuntu
<PRGUY85> maybe start incorporating green or something
<PRGUY85> yet Hardy was more orange than anything
<compacho> idk why its limited to just brown. it should use all warm colors
<compacho> orange should be used VERY sparingly imo
<PRGUY85> why so
<compacho> cause I think its too strong of a color
<PRGUY85> well there are different shades of it
<PRGUY85> same as brown
<PRGUY85> I think they should go for the soft tones
<PRGUY85> and maybe add some green into it or something
<compacho> yeah, but the idealistic orange is strong in itself. Like I would use orange as a highlight on the close button of a window
<compacho> so if I photoshop some images I just find on google, I have to heavily edit them to avoid legal problems right?
<PRGUY85> don't really know, depends on copyright
<PRGUY85> beta launches on thursday, maybe they make some changes then
<ethana2> hope so
<ethana2> Dust makes brown look good
<ethana2> ..i'm rooting for it
<compacho> Dust? thats a theme right?
<ethana2> yep
<compacho> hmmm....i might have it on ym system. lemme check
<compacho> Ahhh yes. i do have it. Very classy theme. One of the very few dark themes that work
<ethana2> heyyyyy now
<ethana2> ubuntustudio
<ethana2> best usplash theme EVAR
<ethana2> ..and the desktop theme is cool too
<compacho> ubuntu studio is alright, but dust is better
<ethana2> borderless FTW
<ethana2> Shiki-Human is also awesome
<compacho> i wish making themes was easy. I would love to take a stab at it
<ethana2> heh
<ethana2> the things i want are too radical for mere themes
<compacho> right now, I'm using a KDE 4 theme for gnome
<ethana2> haha
<compacho> its so slick
<ethana2> which theme?
<PRGUY85> I was using openSuse for my KDE 4.1 fix
<compacho> umm....the default KDE 4 one
<compacho> white one
<PRGUY85> it was alright but I want it to mature a bit more.  Ubuntu works better for me
<PRGUY85> yea Oxygen
<compacho> ah ok
<compacho> I think OpenSuse does the best job when it comes to looks
<PRGUY85> Dust is great yea.  I like New Wave because it strikes a balance between dark/light
<PRGUY85> and Shiki is awesome
<compacho> just looked up shiki. pretty cool
<PRGUY85> yea it is a well thought out package
<compacho> Dust still is better to me and would make a great default ubuntu theme
<PRGUY85> true.
<PRGUY85> Although I've seen not everyone likes dark themes
<PRGUY85> Dust is awesome, I find it too dark for my default taste
<compacho> gtg, I'll be around :)
<thorwil> "A Textured 2007" http://news.deviantart.com/article/45394/
 * DannyKing-ZZzz wakes up
<DannyKing> Some nice stuff there thorwil
<thorwil> jepp
 * thorwil -> coffee
<DannyKing> good idea! brb
 * DannyKing just had to turn down another web design contract due to going to University :(
<_MMA_> :(
<DannyKing> _MMA_: do you think maybe my icon style is /too/ real for breathe? Looking at Sebastian's bin, it looks much better at smaller sizes than my paper icon.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: No. I think it's fine. We should drop the torn edge detail below 48px though.
<DannyKing> Okay
<_MMA_> Maybe just go to a plain rectangle.
<DanaG> Interesting: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/10/01/bit-tech-september-potm-winner-announced/1
<DanaG> Bit-tech Picture of the Month often has interesting images.
<DanaG> The winning one reminds me of Ubuntu Studio.
<thorwil> _MMA_: you would also do well to not quote full messages ;)
<_MMA_> Hush. :P I'm doing 100 things at once atm. Forgot the <snip>.
<kwwii> I feel like someone is pumping jello into my cranium
<thorwil> yuck
<thorwil> once imagined can't be unimagined
<thorwil> in context of a trash bin or random product, should i talk about a "base" or a "socket" for the part things stand on?
<Nece228> Hey
<Nece228> Dust theme is based on Aurora engine?
<_MMA_> thorwil: I'll have a Breathe BZR update in a min. You should re-download the template if you're using it.
<thorwil> _MMA_: ok. what's the change about?
<Nece228> Oh, it is
<kwwii> thorwil: a base
<thorwil> ok
<Nece228> I think that it's impossible to fix ugly widgets in openoffice, ff3 bug in aurora
<_MMA_> thorwil: I had to name a plate layer for a feature in the script.
<_MMA_> s/layer/object
<thorwil> _MMA_: i want to tweak Sebastian's bin. guess I should transplant it then :)
<_MMA_> If you want, send it to me and I'll drop it in place.
<_MMA_> Either way.
<Nece228> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Slickness+Black?content=73210
<_MMA_> Lemmie push these changes 1st.
<thorwil> damn. inkscape draws the bg layers e9e3d8 and fbce87 in front of parts of the drawing
<_MMA_> thorwil: Grab latest revision to trunk and run the script. :) It works! (still needs a couple of tweaks).
 * thorwil laughs at "smartboy"
<_MMA_> Oh well. :)
<_MMA_> thorwil: Note that the trash SVG misses the "arrows" detail for some reason. Im looking into it but might not matter since we're replacing it.
<_MMA_> Killer. New GIMP out.
<thorwil> grrr. how can i safely kill and restart compiz.real?
<psyke83> compiz --replace
<thorwil> ty
 * thorwil -> dinner
<kwwii> _MMA_: check out that screenshots on the website;-)
<kwwii> I like the theme they are using
<_MMA_> kwwii: The GIMP site?
<_MMA_> Yeah. Ive seen something like it before. :)
<_MMA_> I swear that's a jimmac screenshot.
<rsc-> hiya guise
<Cimi> the orange is too much saturated
<rsc-> where?
<DannyKing> Hi
<DannyKing> oops, I've not been aligning thing sto the grid
<DannyKing> *things to
<DannyKing> The lighter grey bin looks nice
<_MMA_> yep.
<DannyKing> slight jagged edge though. And the shadow is too dark for me
 * DannyKing wonders how sebastian drew his paper
<_MMA_> I'm sure shadows will be constantly tinkered with.
<DannyKing> yep
 * _MMA_ sets out to build GIMP 2.6 from source.
<DannyKing> What colour should I draw the computer icon?
<DannyKing> dark or light?
<_MMA_> Surprise us. :)
<DannyKing> orange it is, then ;)
<_MMA_> :P
<DannyKing> I think I'll work on that tonight. I want a break from paper
<thorwil> DannyKing: i have been wondering about the computer icon. me being an industrial designer, it's kinda my field :)
<thorwil> DannyKing: how to not say either desktop or laptop there?
<DannyKing> Oh would you rather do it? :)
<DannyKing> hmm#
<thorwil> DannyKing: no, go ahead
<DannyKing> I don't think laptop users mind if the computer icon is a desktop
<eitreach> Is there any chance for this to get into the final release? The icon set, that is.
<DannyKing> Whereas a laptop icon for computer might confuse people, I think?
<DannyKing> eitreach: not for intrepid
<DannyKing> (breathe, that is)
<eitreach> Pah. Sadness.
<thorwil> DannyKing: to include a display next to a case bothers me a bit, as the display being the computer is a common naive user misconception
<DannyKing> Release is in less than a month (I think?) and we've only just started building icons. We only have one!
<DannyKing> hehe
<DannyKing> thorwil: yeah I  see what you're saying. I'll think it over on a brainstorm
<DannyKing> *mindmap, whatever.
<eitreach> I was just wondering.. I've been following the mailig list for a bit, but wasn't sure how much had been left out from there.
<DannyKing> eitreach: I think it's got everything reported on there so far actually :)
<DannyKing> I think there's only been about a weeks work on the set
<thorwil> eitreach: only the intrigues and backstabbing. everything else goes through the list ^^
 * DannyKing just noticed SemirG_Borzo's new bin
<DannyKing> That complicate things, I like both :\
<_MMA_> :)
 * _MMA_ looks.
<DannyKing> Although it looks kinda like a thimble
<DannyKing> perhaps if the base was wider
<DannyKing> I really like that light streak to the right of it
<DannyKing> Hmm, looks like it's floating a little bit at the base there
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> already commented on that issue
<DannyKing> Oh sorry was that on the list?
<thorwil> np. yes
<DannyKing> Thought I was up to date on that, I'll check again
<DannyKing> I think that the inside of the bin slopes at the wrong angle
<DannyKing> it looks like really thick metal
<DannyKing> I like your touch of blue idea, thorwil
<DanaG> Same Breathe icon set topic?
<thorwil> no, bizzaro world Breathe icon set
<DanaG> "same", not "sane".  =Ã¾
 * DanaG goes off elsewhere for a while.
<thorwil> now if only blur wasn't so cpu intensive on editing
<DannyKing> thorwil: Yeah I hate it when Inkscape dies when you use a few blurred shapes
<DannyKing> What about a bin that's made from criss-crossed metal? (like, a paper bin)
<DannyKing> I think that might look good
<_MMA_> Like a Mac?
 * DannyKing goes and looks
 * _MMA_ feels thorwil's blurry pain.
<DannyKing> I don't like the Mac icon
<DannyKing> But that idea (although now I'm weary it'll look like a copy)
<_MMA_> Agreed.
<_MMA_> http://images.google.com/images?q=trashbin&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi
 * _MMA_ sits back while GIMP 2.6 compiles.
<thorwil> image search is dodgy. found http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/images/post-sexy4.jpg with "trash icon"
<DannyKing> http://dwell.co.uk/ProductImages/400-101115.jpg
<_MMA_> thorwil: Don't turn off "safe-search" ya perve. :P
<DannyKing> lol
<thorwil> heh
<DannyKing> How about that style of bin but made from black metal?
<thorwil> http://www.vegrafik.de/trashtease.jpg
<_MMA_> That wouldnt work on dark themes.
<DannyKing> hmm good poing
<aantn> thorwil: yeah, that's nice
<_MMA_> 'tis
 * DannyKing will stop thinking about bins for now, we have too many as it is 
<DannyKing> Oh shit
<DannyKing> sorry I top posted
 * DannyKing begs for mercy
<DannyKing> accident!
<thorwil> ha!
<_MMA_> DEATH!
<thorwil> DannyKing: 3 icons and we'll forgive you ;)
<DannyKing> hehe
 * thorwil heads to the shower
 * DannyKing just posted to the list about sebastians bin
<aantn> DannyKing, thorwil, _MMA_: how about a toilet?
<aantn> we could have an empty and full icon :-D
<_MMA_> If I thought you were serious, I'd call you names.
<aantn> _MMA_: heh :)
<DannyKing> I think it's too jokey to be in a theme that aims to make Ubuntu look fantastic
<DannyKing> To me it's quite a ... "serious" theme
<DannyKing> for want of a better word
<DannyKing> I considered a shredder but the analogy is wrong (although I'll do that for a secure deletion program perhaps)
<_MMA_> I'm sure using a toilet would pretty much kill any shot at default.
<DannyKing> thorwil: I can't seem to think of any other way to draw a computer than drawing a desktop machine
<aantn> DannyKing: but...
<DannyKing> aantn:  hmm?
 * aantn grins
<_MMA_> Note: Ant screens/monitors should be widescreen. ;)
<_MMA_> *Any
<aantn> DannyKing: you could have a flushing noise when they empties the trash :-D
<DannyKing> fine with me _MMA_
<DannyKing> You really like that idea huh? :p
<aantn> er, empty not empties
<DannyKing> _MMA_:  for hardware should be aim to draw top-spec stuff? Like $200 keyboard/mice sets rather than generic stuff
<DannyKing> i.e. make it look expensive or normal?
<aantn> DannyKing: nah, don't take everything I say seriously ;)
 * aantn fully understands that a toilet icon can't go in any serious icon theme
<DannyKing> Any other non usual ideas for icons are welcomed though. It's good to think out of the box
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I would think design over price. If it looks good, we use it.
<aantn> DannyKing: I know
<_MMA_> Via Mr. Conn. http://www.getdeb.net/release/3233
<DannyKing> thorwil: I'm going to go ahead and draw a desktop.
<thorwil> DannyKing: well, i think it might be possible to draw something that could be taken to be either a closed laptop, or a flat desktop
<thorwil> DannyKing: btw, i agree with your additional points about Sebastian's bin
<DannyKing> Great thanks :)
<_MMA_> Or GIMP 2.6 PPA. https://launchpad.net/~c-korn/+archive Yay Conn the super-sleuth.
<DannyKing> thorwil: but the monitor confuses things. 99% of laptop users don't use an external monitor
<thorwil> DannyKing: i wouldn't include a display
<DannyKing> I just think a closed laptop wouldn't be easily recognisable as either a laptop or a desktop. I agree with your desire to have an icon that represents both but I don't think that's that icon
<DannyKing> We could include both a laptop and a desktop (at larger sizes?)
<DannyKing> Or provide two icons?
<thorwil> 2 icons are not that useful, as we can't switch automatically
<DannyKing> Or possibly just an image of the desktop
<DannyKing> No hardware at all, but almost like a screenshot?
<thorwil> DannyKing: too easy to be mistaken as show-desktop or display
<DannyKing> hmm
<_MMA_> Confusing for laptop users or not, it's still a universal image for the computer. This is a minor issue to me.
<_MMA_> I say we draw a widescreen monitor and be done with it.
<DannyKing> That's the monitor configuration icon, it'll need another hardware device with it
<DannyKing> Personally I don't mind the tried & tested desktop icon
<_MMA_> I dont think it actually *needs* a box beside it. Human doesnt. Just has monitor and keyboard.
<DannyKing> I think I'll work on the cd drive icon instead to give us a chance to think it over
<_MMA_> That GIMP PPA works BTW.
<DannyKing> cool
<DannyKing> brb, food
<DannyKing> Back
<DannyKing> you guys played with filter effects in Inkscape yet? Look at what they can do: (first post)  http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1607&sid=4c81dbf7fc9ac2e437a08042a237382e
<DannyKing> firefox can view that svg
<thorwil> nice!
<DannyKing> Yeah, I had no idea they were as powerful as that
<DannyKing> if you move the nodes around the pattern updates
<thorwil> firefox can display it and crawl! ^^
<DannyKing> thorwil: true :p
<DannyKing> _MMA_: I don't like the perspective of the oxygen drive-optical icon
<_MMA_> There's also a pretty cool InkBleed effect.
<DannyKing> Can I change it to match sebastian's bin perspective?
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Go for it.
<_MMA_> Everything's open.
<thorwil> DannyKing: we havn't decided on perspective, yet, after all
<DannyKing> something similar to this? http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/normal/hardware/h669.jpg
<DannyKing> thorwil: yeah, just mindful of being influenced by oxygen
<thorwil> DannyKing: nobody will care about an oxygen influence if our icons will have a human touch and otherwuse just rock ;)
<_MMA_> However I'm not at all against using the Oxygen icons where they fit.
 * _MMA_ goes to take a break for a bit.
<thorwil> so i made the lip of the bin thicker and added a shadow beneath. and now in the middle of the work it's time to log out again :}
<thorwil> good night!
<savvas> what's the current default background in intrepid?
<savvas> must be this one: /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename "/usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png"
<rsc-> ugh
<rsc-> i cant believe the buzz on clear intrepid
<rsc-> lol
<rsc-> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Clear_Intrepid?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ClearFinale.png
<Sevish> Yeah it looks pretty awful.
<savvas> well it's.. different :p
<rsc-> it's also impossible.
<rsc-> given gtk constraints
<rsc-> :(
<rsc-> I think the ubuntu community needs more people with taste!
<savvas> speaking of awful.. can someone tell me if this looks at least good for an invitation: http://savvas.radevic.com/previews/ubuntu-cy-intrepid/
<rsc-> ugh gotta run
<rsc-> i'd consider anoher font
<savvas> suggestion?
<rsc-> something simple.
<rsc-> myriad or a look-alike
<savvas> bitsteam vera sans ?
<rsc-> even something like liberation sans
<rsc-> no not bitstream vera
<rsc-> anyway igotta run! sorry guys, girlfriend waiting at airport
<savvas> oki doki thanks
<rsc-> :)
<Borzo> gidday
<DannyKing> Hi Borzo, you submitted the second bin, right?
<Borzo> Hi DannyKing, yes I did
<Borzo> I just finished correcting the perspective
<Borzo> and made the top thinner
<DannyKing> Nice work :)
<Borzo> thanks...
<Borzo> I will submit the new version tomorrow, i still need to write this serious work e-mail now
<DannyKing> I hope you don't mind the critiques?
<Borzo> not at all
<DannyKing> cool :)
<Borzo> it makes it better don't they :)
<rsc-> sup guys :)
<DannyKing> hellew
<PRGUY85> sup people
<PRGUY85> hola Dannyking
<DannyKing> hola como va?
<PRGUY85> todo bien y tu
<DannyKing> bien gracias
<PRGUY85> alguna noticia nueva?
<DannyKing> estoy instalando Ubuntu server por el tercero vex hoy :\ Tengo problemas con encryption y siempre lo roto
<PRGUY85> por ahora a mi me va muy bien con Ibex, lo unico es que a veces el driver nvidia hace cosas raras en los "window borders"
<DannyKing> como que?
<PRGUY85> que se desaparecen los colores, se queda palido y solo reaparecen cuando subo y bajo la ventana
<PRGUY85> the community packages look awesome in ibex, specially on my laptop.
<PRGUY85> tomorrow is beta release right?
 * DannyKing shrugs
<PRGUY85> yea I think it is oct 2
<DannyKing> cool
<PRGUY85> any new ideas on breathe?
<DannyKing> Borzo submitted a new bin which looks pretty cool
<DannyKing> Although I can't choose which one I prefer
<PRGUY85> the gray one?
<DannyKing> thornill wants the computer icon to represent both laptops and desktops, and I have no idea how to do that
<DannyKing> and I'm going to work on a cd drive icon tonight if I finish installing ubuntu /ever/
<DannyKing> PRGUY85: There are two grey ones, The original and now a new one by a different person
<PRGUY85> DannyKing: Yes, I'm seeing it.  The new one kinda looks more like a Fedora icon, others look more Ubuntu-ish and more hyper-realistic.  Yet, they look very much alike current icon theme.
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-02
<PRGUY85> also last one looks like a gray cup
<PRGUY85> although, do we think of Trash as Trash or Recycle Bin ?  Sebastian's icons are Recycle bins
<_MMA_> DannyKing: We cant rep both IMO. So I'll be decisive and say we do the traditional monitor and keyboard thing.
 * DannyKing thinks of it as a recycle bin, i.e. paper
<DannyKing> _MMA_: that suits me
<PRGUY85> I think the gray recycle bin by Seb is too dark
<DannyKing> even the less dark one?
<_MMA_> ATM the lighter gray one from Seb is the front-runner.
<PRGUY85> yea yet the Full one looks lighter than the empty one
<PRGUY85> that's the one I most like
<DannyKing> _MMA_: any objection to me drawing just the CD tray  (with CD in) for the optical drive icon? (I figure it's implied it's attached to a drive)
<_MMA_> Note that everything we hold so tightly to now can and in many instances will feel like crap later. Everything is going to go through revision and better versions will come along. For now, I'm happy we're crafting our own set.
<PRGUY85> i just hope I could do some art
<PRGUY85> I know shit
<DannyKing> and drives are ugly
<PRGUY85> hmm cd tray?
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I'm down for entertaining that. We'll see what others think.
<DannyKing> PRGUY85: just play with Inkscape, you get good faster than you expect. :)
<PRGUY85> DannyKing, is that in repos?
<DannyKing> I guess I can always add the drive later if it looks bad
<DannyKing> sure
<DannyKing> sudo apt-get install inkscape
<PRGUY85> what do you mean by cd tray?
<_MMA_> DannyKing: But yeah. Run with any ideas you want.
<DannyKing> PRGUY85: just the part that holds the CD
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I would ask that we try to sort the mime thing ASAP. It will allow me to get a crapload of those done quickly.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: But I understand getting burnt looking at the same thing for hours. ;)
<DannyKing> the base icon or the actual emblems?
<DannyKing> nah I can face it, I've not started the drive yet. I'll attempt a simpler sheet of paper
<_MMA_> base icon. Plan was to just use the details from Oxygen for now.
<DannyKing> You think there should be imperfections on the page?
<DannyKing> I think it's more realistic, but it's also more grungy
<PRGUY85> yea I would go with perfect
<_MMA_> Ok. Maybe we 1st need to decide if we use multiple mime bases or just go with 1. Lets do 1 base mine and use your ripped paper one for actual text files and the like.
<PRGUY85> if you want to make it more real, give it perfect details instead of detailing imperfection
<DannyKing> PRGUY85: example of perfect details?
<DannyKing> _MMA_: sure
<PRGUY85> example, istead of having a picture icon with just a photograph, add something inside the photograph
<PRGUY85> like a miniature landscape, instead of plain film
<DannyKing> PRGUY85: I'm talking about a plank sheet of paper though
<DannyKing> nothing on it
<PRGUY85> oh no
<PRGUY85> I was just talking in general terms
<PRGUY85> sorry
<_MMA_> DannyKing: How about this Grab the Oxygen set right from SVN. svn co svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/KDE/kdebase/runtime/pics/oxygen
<DannyKing> Yeah good idea, I will
<_MMA_> That way you know a little better what I'm talking about.
<_MMA_> brb (food)
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Its about a 58mb DL.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Notice that the computer icon from SVN is different than what is on the wiki.
<DannyKing> Okay, I'll take a peek
<DannyKing> Although I'm going to leave that one for a while
<_MMA_> K. I might just do one myself.
<_MMA_> There are *many* icons here we should just use.
 * DannyKing sighs
<DannyKing> Inkscape crashed
<_MMA_> w00t!
<_MMA_> DannyKing: SVN?
<DannyKing> I think that was stable actually
 * DannyKing checks
<DannyKing> Yeah, stable. I was playing with node effects and asked it to do too much
<_MMA_> k
<DannyKing> jitter nodes it great for making ripped paper
<rsc-> hey guys
<DannyKing> OMH
<DannyKing> *OMG
 * _MMA_ waves.
<DannyKing> arrrghhhh!!!!
<DannyKing> I think I'll use the svn, it's probably /more/ stable :\
<_MMA_> Â¿QuÃ©?
<_MMA_> Oh.
<DannyKing> It crashed again
<_MMA_> Ouch
<DannyKing> Ah it made a backup
<rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/spirit-test.jpg
<rsc-> whatcha all think?
<rsc-> its not much
<rsc-> just one of those "I wonder if..." type of mockups.
<rsc-> (yes, I think it's possible to do with gtk/metacity flawlessly)
<_MMA_> I like it.
<DannyKing> me too
<rsc-> cool :)
<_MMA_> With some color changes we could use it for Studio. :P
<rsc-> are you serious :b
<rsc-> isn't that a bit too... against the studio aesthetic?
<DannyKing> What's the most common background colour for icons?
<rsc-> not to be captain obvious, but i'd say white.
<rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/spirit-test-2.jpg
<rsc-> (i like it a lot myself!)
 * DannyKing is finding it hard to make paper look good on white
<DannyKing> all my detail gets lost :(
<rsc-> heh :)
<_MMA_> Hmm....
 * _MMA_ wonders if we should try a subtle tan?
<DannyKing> For the paper
<DannyKing> I've gone with a very light grey
<_MMA_> k
<rsc-> not bad
<rsc-> tan/peach
 * rsc- wonders why PS takes 30 seconds to save a jpeg
<DannyKing> Okay take a look at:
<rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/spirit-test-3.jpg
<rsc-> :D
<rsc-> *drool*
<_MMA_> Fun. :)
<DannyKing> http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2115/paper2wp0.png
<_MMA_> I think the shadow needs work but I like it. :)
<rsc-> oh no no no DannyKing
<rsc-> thats not right :/
<rsc-> i like it.
<rsc-> but its gotta be tweaked to work on white-on-white
<_MMA_> Made updates: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
<rsc-> consider some shadows in the paper itself
<rsc-> (the nonuniform shadows are nice btw)
<DannyKing> rsc-: good idea. _MMA_ what should I do to the shadow?
<_MMA_> rsc-: No. Remember this will be a base icon. SO there will be details about the file on it.
<DannyKing> rsc-: thanks. The paper icon in every single icon set is so boring
<rsc-> _MMA_, I still say shade the inside somehow. the details can go on top of it
<_MMA_> DannyKing: If you look at the Oxygen set, at the keyboard icon, it really doesn't fit with the others. Where other devices are table view. I wish it was so I coulda used it with the monitor I threw up there.
<rsc-> :D
<rsc-> example:
<rsc-> http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6159/paper2wpcopybm5.jpg
<rsc-> (try opening both images in two separate firefox tabs, then alternate between the two)
<rsc-> the kinda-curl effect wasn't quite executed right, though
<rsc-> but im sure you get hte idea
<DannyKing> _MMA_: yeah I see what you mean
<rsc-> that's just my take
<DannyKing> rsc-: I like it :) I'll have a go
<DannyKing> I was thinking of making creases near the edge
<DannyKing> like it has been held
<rsc-> _MMA_, what did you think of that one?
<rsc-> not too much
<rsc-> dont want it to look trashy
<_MMA_> rsc-: Both have promise. :)
<rsc-> a dog ear is another cliche to consider
<DannyKing> rsc-: no :p
<DannyKing> rsc-: every paper icon in the /world/ has a curl
<rsc-> haha
 * _MMA_ sits back and watches the feud. :)
<DannyKing> I'll do that as a last resort, and if that happens you'll know I've lost my soul... so you better had send me some ben & jerries to restore it.
<DannyKing> :D
<_MMA_> New wiki update by seb.
<DannyKing> I like it
<DannyKing> some of my criticism from the list still stands
<_MMA_> brb
<_MMA_> I think those are good enough to update BZR with though. yes/no?
<DannyKing> yeah definitely
<_MMA_> Ok. I'll update before I go to bed.
 * DannyKing should go too
<DannyKing> aw, just as I did his shading for him :p
<DannyKing> http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6702/paper2xv1.png
<DannyKing> I don't know which is better
 * _MMA_ clicks
<DannyKing> I'm going to make that inner shadow more subtle
<_MMA_> Cool.
<DannyKing> http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4975/paper2mg2.png
<DannyKing> Looks okay on all backgrounds (least good on black)
<_MMA_> k
<DannyKing> _MMA_: stick around for a few mins before you go to bed, been playing with emblems
<_MMA_> k
<_MMA_> I updated the Trash icons but BZR is being a pain. I might have to wait 'till my AM.
<DannyKing> Ok
<DannyKing> Right here we go:
<DannyKing> http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imagesyw9.png
<DannyKing> Just playing around so don't worry if you don't like it
<DannyKing> It's a variation on that idea I showed you yesterday. At smaller sizes the 'pixels' would become very simple and the text would dissapear
<DannyKing> Perhaps it'd look better using different colours for the different image types
<_MMA_> Sure. I think it has promise. We gotta make the paper pop of of white backgrounds though. The shadow there won't do.
<DannyKing> okay
<DannyKing> I'll put them on the discussions page
<_MMA_> killer
<DannyKing> Submitted to list and wiki
<DannyKing> I'm off to bed, night _MMA_
<_MMA_> Night sir
<_MMA_> Added trash icons. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
<_MMA_> night
<Starks> why canonical trolling us with their silence?
<BHSPitMonkey> _MMA_, nice!
<BHSPitMonkey> but come on, Breathe Icon Set guys
<BHSPitMonkey> pick a perspective and stick to it please
<rsc-> !bot
<ubottu> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-artwork's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://tinyurl.com/5zfb6t - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots
<rsc-> !notworking
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about notworking
<kwwii> good morning, sweethearts
<_MMA_> yo
<caio> this is the new theme of ubuntu 8.10? http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=0x2008&image=ubuntu_intrepid_theme1_lrg
<Cimi> caio, I really hope it will be changed
<caio> I too
<thorwil> _MMA_: hi! where does the new computer icon come from?
<_MMA_> thorwil: The Oxygen set. Though I made it widescreen and changed the color from blue to orange. Needs a keyboard still.
<aantn> Cimi: yeah
<aantn> Cimi: the background is... ugh
<thorwil> ugh?
<aantn> thorwil: the dots all over the screen?
<thorwil> oh, that
<aantn> to be fair, I haven't actually set it as my own desktop background to try it
<aantn> it just looks like something that would have gone in five years ago
<thorwil> i think it looks like something that was created on the last minute, working late at night ^^
<Cimi> aantn, the mistake is the gtk theme, the background usually is changed after 10 seconds ;)
<aantn> Cimi: that too :)
<DannyKing> Hi all
<thorwil> hi DannyKing
<DannyKing> How's it going?
<DannyKing> The new computer icon theme came from oxygen, _MMA_ just put it there to replace the old one for the time being
<thorwil> long weekend in front of me :)
<DannyKing> ah that's good news :)
<DannyKing> public holiday
<DannyKing> ?
<thorwil> yes
 * DannyKing has to pack all his things today for university
<thorwil> german reunion day (or however it's translated officially) tomorrow
<DannyKing> I don't want to pack my office up, I love it!
<DannyKing> ah cool
<DannyKing> Did you see my empty page icon?
<thorwil> DannyKing: yes, just replied on list
<DannyKing> DIN A format is the german term for A4 format perhaps?
<thorwil> "The international paper size standard, ISO 216, is based on the German DIN 476 standard for paper sizes" ;)
<DannyKing> ah heh okay
<DannyKing> Go to apple.com and look at the paint on the nano advert
<DannyKing> it looks amazing!
<DannyKing> I think something like that realistic (splashed paint) might be good for the generic-image icon? Or perhaps .xcf or other artistic filetypes
<thorwil> *shrug*
<_MMA_> DannyKing: I'm wondering. After looking over Oxygen more and considering what kwwii has said, you think you would still be able to work at 128px?
<_MMA_> 1 reason would be that it would make less resizing work using things from Oxygen.
<DannyKing> Yeah sure
<DannyKing> You still want 256px being worked on?
<_MMA_> We would stop 256 and work at 128.
<_MMA_> I wanted to get thoughts 1st.
<_MMA_> From thinking about it, everyone seems to get plenty of detail at that size.
<DannyKing> If you think that's best I'm fine with it - what brought on the change in thinking? 'Cause you were pretty passionately for 256px before?
<DannyKing> Also you'll need to change the template
<_MMA_> I noticed that I was doing alot of up-sizing from Oxygen.
<_MMA_> Which makes it larger sure, but no more detail than if we worked at 128.
<_MMA_> DannyKing: So I believe we can get the detail level we want (everyone else seems to) while reducing the amount of resizing work to be done.
<_MMA_> I know I'll have to adjust what's there already. It's not too much work. I just have to do it now.
<DannyKing> Sure
<DannyKing> I'll update the paper svg I made last night to 128px and also include the smaller sizes
<DannyKing> Then if I have time I'll attempt a generic-image icon
<_MMA_> Cool.
<DannyKing> just saw your post, I guess it'll be more helpful if I work on something else rather than the generic-image icon (I don't mind), so I'll work on the cd tray
<DannyKing> er drive*
<_MMA_> No. We still need the base file. :) The background to be used.
<DannyKing> the blank paper?
<_MMA_> Si
<DannyKing> Yeah it'll be done pretty soon I think.
<DannyKing> _MMA_: is there any chance that jimmac's workflow could be modified to support multiple layers for the artwork? It's a lot easier to edit when you can lock or hide aspects of an icon you don't want to touch (shadows, highlights, colour)
<DannyKing> Also I find it useful to have a 'scraps' layer, in which I keep shapes that I may need to use in the future
<_MMA_> DannyKing: Anything above the "plate" layer will be rendered. Its one reason the plate has to be hidden before saving.
<DannyKing> Ah okay, great
<_MMA_> DannyKing: But no to the scraps layer. As it will be bloat for the source files.
<DannyKing> k
<_MMA_> I'm gonna be away for a bit. I have some things to take care of here and it will take some concentration to revise these SVGs quickly.
<DannyKing> okay
<DannyKing> one quick question:
<_MMA_> k
<DannyKing> do you prefer a slightly ripped top & bottom for the blank page or just the usual?
<_MMA_> The usual for now.
<_MMA_> bbl. PM if needed.
 * thorwil wants mirroring/symmetrical editing in inkscape
<rsc-> are you making a face?
<thorwil> no, working on the lid of the bin
<thorwil> we all need to pay more attention. the shape of the lid doesn't follow the rounded edges of the body
<rsc-> okay
<rsc-> are we going with the plastic submission of sebastian porta?
<DannyKing> Looks like that's the favourite
<thorwil> yes, except that i'm trying to improve it right now
<rsc-> yeah, needsimprovement imho
 * DannyKing agrees
 * thorwil cuts shapes in halves to then mirror one half, align the 2 parts to touch at the center and do a union
<rsc-> how can you union with inkscape?
<thorwil> rsc-: Path > Union, with more than one path object selected
<rsc-> cool
<thorwil> the boolean ops are a great help
<rsc-> thats nice.
<rsc-> i thought there was no pathfinder equivalent in inkscape
<thorwil> i'm very happy with inkscape, never miss freehand or illustrator. except maybe for gradient meshes, but i never got to work with them
<thorwil> blur performance is an issue, but i don't know how it compares to illustrator there
<thorwil> bbl
<rsc-> i misss it for meshes and blend shape
<thorwil> rsc-: blend shape?
<thorwil> aha! http://shapeshed.com/journal/illustrator_101_the_blend_tool/
<rsc-> yes
<rsc-> and art brushes
<kwwii> wow, someone should have shown me a boot chart from ubuntu earlier
<PRGUY85> hello people
<Cimi> kwwii, I think firefox was patched
<Cimi> with latest revisions of murrine you'll have rounded gtkentry inside firefox
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-03
<PRGUY85> hey anyone here?
<dashua> http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_4.1222999461.png
<dashua> Breathe looking very nice :)
<dashua> I just need to get this damn flash working on 64 Ibex.
<dashua> Nice work.
<PRGUY85> seeing as how thorwill created those countdown to launch day banners
<PRGUY85> would it be safe to assume that the latest wallpaper is final?
<kwwii> Cimi: right, new engine and theme packages coming in the next days (I've been sick)
<xivulon> Hi all, I need to replace the artwork in http://www.wubi-installer.org/
<xivulon> in particular the beautiful heron has to go and be replaced by an ibex.
<xivulon> is there some official "ibex" to use for the purpose
<xivulon> circle of friends and such will do too. Suggestions welcome
<thorwil> hi xivulon
<xivulon> hi :)
<thorwil> hmm
<thorwil> some people remain critical of using the codename animal
<xivulon> I am open to suggestions
<andreasn> didn't Rico Sta. Cruz do a cool Ibex?
<thorwil> yes. i will hunt for the link
<xivulon> If you have some more abstract idea for the website feel free
<thorwil> xivulon: i could offer an SVG for the ibex shape found at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=tw_intrepid_countdown_06_spiral.png
<xivulon> Someone also suggested me to change the website colorscheme, as the red might turn people off
<xivulon> Being associated to "warnings"
<xivulon> There too if you have proposals I'll be happy to switch
<thorwil> xivulon: http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/8062/bareos1.png
<thorwil> meant to have a non-white background, though
<xivulon> that's a beautiful one, but the white background might be an issue (in theory it just need css changes, but I am not good in generating dark color schemes)
<xivulon> Someone also commented that the Heron was not appropriate since it was associated to the desktop of Gnome, while Wubi also provides Xubuntu and Kubuntu
<thorwil> xivulon: as i already have lots of stuff on my list, i can offer to take this to our mailing list
<xivulon> sure
<thorwil> xivulon: so in short you are looking for a replacement for the heron and you're open for everything there.
<xivulon> if someone wants to play with the overall design, the css is http://www.wubi-installer.org/wubi.css and the images are in http://www.wubi-installer.org/images/
<xivulon> thorwil: correct, I do need to change the heron and if one once to take one or two steps further and revamp the website design with some cool ideas, why not?
<thorwil> xivulon: the only really notable occurence of red i see is in the logo
<xivulon> Horizontal lines and checkmarks also are in red
<xivulon> I must say I really like the spiral
<xivulon> the one made of circles
<xivulon> 1) for mathematical reasons, 2) because it reminds of debian
<thorwil> thanks! the association with debian is not intentional, though
<xivulon> And on the other side horns have a peculiar meaning in Italy...
<thorwil> xivulon: seems it's already up: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown
<xivulon> So I'am probably more inclined to use the abstract graphics :)
<thorwil> xivulon: you mean having been cheated on?
<thorwil> as in girl slept with another man?
<xivulon> heh yeah that is the meaning
<thorwil> xivulon: it exists in german to :)
<thorwil> s/to/too/
<xivulon> the (short) spiral of course might be interpreted as a horn
<xivulon> but 1 horn is cool...
<xivulon> 2 horns not cool...
<thorwil> well, i would hope the ibex will be seen as ibex ^^
<thorwil> xivulon: i'd like to have your real name for the mail and an address for CC (excpet if you want to subscribe to the list). PM me if you so prefer
<xivulon> agostino russo
<xivulon> I am on gmail
<xivulon> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ago
<thorwil> xivulon: "Email:  No public address provided.", but what you have for Jabber appears to be an email adress at gmail?!
<xivulon> agostino dot russo at gmail dot com
<thorwil> ok, but it should be fixed on the LP site ;)
<xivulon> done
<thorwil> mail send with CC
<thorwil> oh boy. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-wallpapers/+bug/276594
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276594 in ubuntu-wallpapers "New default Intrepid wallpaper is green" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<xivulon> thorwil: thanks a lot
<thorwil> xivulon: np
<xivulon> I for one like that wallpaper...
<thorwil> xivulon: kwwii made it
<thorwil> to me, it's sad that it is being criticized for daring to introduce even the most subtle hint of colors other than brown-red-orange
<tuxice> hello
<thorwil> hello tuxice
<tuxice> hello
<tuxice> whats with the theme for intrepid alpha & beta
<tuxice> many users are complaining with usability
<tuxice> there is a planned change for the final release correct?
<thorwil> not that i know
<tuxice> that could be a problem
<tuxice> have any wallpapers been selected?
<tuxice> hello njpatel_
<njpatel> tuxice: hey
<njpatel> njpatel_: is my alterego using my laptop :-)
<tuxice> oh
<tuxice> weird.....
<thorwil> tuxice: what has been selected is what you see in the beta. while the wallpaper could be replaced for the final release, i doubt it will
<tuxice> ok, i shall take a look (havent seen the beta yet), is the theme the same as the alpha
<tuxice> ?
<thorwil> tuxice: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Njc1NA
<tuxice> ok, so basically its 8.04's theme with a new wallpaper?!?!?!? what happened to the readical new design?!?!?!?!?!?
<thorwil> oh please, be careful with those ! and ?, because if you continue like that, we will soon have none of them left!
<tuxice> i believe we should aim for this more
<tuxice> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Clear_Intrepid
<thorwil> tuxice: nothing. who said "radical", btw?
<tuxice> forum members, and i believe i read it somewhere on a wiki page
<thorwil> people on the forums often get stuff wrong or even make it up
<tuxice> ok
<tuxice> so basically it is what it is
<thorwil> it is true that there were plans to have a new theme for hardy already, then it was decided that the LTS release as last of a serious should not introduce such changes
<tuxice> and then i thought that was supposed to be postponed till intrepid
<thorwil> i'm not even sure there was an outright promise to have the new theme in intrepid, but mybe there was
<thorwil> but then only what either Mark Shutlleworth or the art director Kenneth Wimer said counts
<tuxice> will these be the folders? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Intrepid_Ibex_Icons_-_Art_Team?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=pn_folder_overview.png
<thorwil> no
<thorwil> tuxice: you can forget about everything on the wiki there, excpet for the themes that are in kwwii's PPA
<thorwil> tuxice: https://launchpad.net/~kwwii/+archive
<tuxice> ok
<tuxice> ill look
<thorwil> tuxice: there are 2 projects within the ubuntu artwork community that should make us more productive. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines
<thorwil> tuxice: perhaps you could spread the word, if you want to help
<tuxice> ok will do..
<tuxice> everything on the wiki under GPL?
<thorwil> nope
<tuxice> how about this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Intrepid_Ibex_Icons_-_Art_Team?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=pn_folder_overview.png
<tuxice> any licence anywhere
<tuxice> i dont see one
<thorwil> tuxice: for all i know, the wiki doesn't imply a license. some pages do have license notes
<tuxice> ok
<thorwil> if you see none, you may assume broad fair use rights
<tuxice> ok
<tuxice> thanks
<tuxice> gonna make a theme
<thorwil> np
<thorwil> tuxice: what do you expect how long it takes to create a good theme?
<tuxice> months, years
<tuxice> but im also in the process of creating an os
<thorwil> ok, i was worried you might underestimate the effort :)
<tuxice> nope
<tuxice> hey, can i help with the breathe icons?
<thorwil> tuxice: you should consider to join one of the already running theme projects
<tuxice> such as? NewHuman, Oxygen
<thorwil> tuxice: sure, we need more people. but of course this depends on your skills.
<thorwil> tuxice: Dust and the others you find in the PPA i linked
<thorwil> tuxice: did you work on themes or icons before? do you have a portfolio / any work online you could show?
<tuxice> thorwil: i do not have a portfollio, but i do do lots of graphic design
<thorwil> tuxice: say hello to _MMA_, the man behind Breathe
<tuxice> _MMA_ Hello, I like the concept of breathe
<tuxice> So, i have to go now, i will be back though
<_MMA_> Ouch. Bug 276594
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 276594 in ubuntu-wallpapers "New default Intrepid wallpaper is green" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276594
<thorwil> yeah, already had my fun with that report and a forum thread of eleven pages
<_MMA_> 'Tis why I don't go to the forums anymore.
<Nece228> no new theme :(
<Nece228> i think at least they should make gradient, panel background and to change color pallete
<thorwil> grrr. wordpress doesn't allow me to insert a <script> into a post. no live countdown banner for me. http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown
<Nece228> thorwil: what do you mean by "The theme teams are doing a good job now on a few community themes"
<_MMA_> thorwil: I'm not gonna be around much today. Well, I might be on but not sitting here. I'll get back to anything I can when I see it.
<thorwil> Nece228: https://launchpad.net/~kwwii/+archive
<Nece228> thorwil: what engine i need for kin theme?
<thorwil> Nece228: no idea, but if you use the PPA, the dependency should be taken care of already
<Nece228> thorwil: ive installed community-themes_1.0_all.deb
<thorwil> Nece228: if something with it doesn't work, you should report to kwwii
<Nece228> thorwil: because i see only new borders, but gtk looks like raleigh
<Nece228> thorwil: all these themes will be included in intrepid?
<thorwil> Nece228: i'm not sure if the package will be installed by default, or just be offered in addition
<Nece228> thorwil: ok, thanks for link :P
<Nece228> omg ubuntuforums.org has new ubuntu logo on top
<_MMA_> PM if needed.
<rsc-> hai guise!
<Mirv> thorwil: hi. our people are a bit too fast, and created already a version from the bitmap directly... it was now (a minute ago) put at http://www.ubuntu-fi.org/ - does that seem ok to you?
<Mirv> thorwil: anyway, a big thanks for the work with counter
 * thorwil looks
<Mirv> there's now a link similar to ubuntu.com below the image
<thorwil> Mirv: it's ok, although it lacks the care i invested in scaling the number and text for the best layout
<thorwil> gotta run. good night!
<Mirv> thorwil: right, ok. I'll ask if the person who did the hacking would like to take a look at the exact scaling/font used in the original
<tuxice> Hello, again!
<tuxice> Wallpaper: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/BrownOrange_Wallpaper
<PRGUY85> rsc- how are you?
<tuxice> hello
<tuxice> anybody like this wallpaper  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/BrownOrange_Wallpaper
<PRGUY85> hmmm tuxice, I think it shouldn't have the logo
<tuxice> ok
<tuxice> anything else
<PRGUY85> or the release name for that matter
<tuxice> ok
<PRGUY85> I would try to do bigger circles
<PRGUY85> and a softer orange
<tuxice> ok
<tuxice> ok take another look
<tuxice> anybody like these wallpapers  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/BrownOrange_Wallpaper
<tuxice> anybody?
<tuxice> qwertyuiop
<rhkfin> Hi! Anyone know where to find ubuntu logo images with real people as a circle of friends?
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-04
<tuxice> anybody here?
<caleb_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/DustTheme
<caleb_> anyone know what font they use in the screenshots?
<PRGUY85> kwwii will the community theme package get update soon?
<thorwil> morning!
<rsc-> hey
<Cimi_> kwwii, I've rewritten the drawing section for the second time ;) now it allows easily global modifications for the glazestyles
<Cimi_> so if you have ideas, I can implement for the overall look in less than 20 lines
<rsc-> ey if anyone's got any feedback on this http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/263/studiomd0.jpg that'd be awesome.
<Cimi_> rsc-, really nice
<Cimi_> rsc-, buttons and other widgets?
<rsc-> undecided
<rsc-> hehe
<rsc-> just plotting out the basic idea for the window borders
<rsc-> ...that'd have a "pro" amp-like feel for Ubuntu Studio.
<tuxice> Hello, what is the news?
<rsc-> not much.
<rsc-> you can check the ML for some updates if you want
<rsc-> but theres not much happening aside from breathe
<tuxice> OK.
<rsc-> i just made a new thread if you wanna check it :b
<tuxice> where is it?
<tuxice> ::LINK::
<rsc-> http://www.nabble.com/Inspiration-mockups.-td19810609.html
<tuxice> looking now
<tuxice> hmmm ok,
<tuxice> nothing really pops yet
<tuxice> although i believe we should incorporate more transparency into ubuntu
<tuxice> transparent menus?
<rsc-> what do you mean "nothing really pops yet"?
<tuxice> no inspiration yet, for me at least ;)
<rsc-> okay
<rsc-> i'd personally hate to see more transparency but that's just me
<tuxice> hmmm ok
<rsc-> for the record, a lot of people didn't like that OSX Leopard came with transparent menus
<tuxice> i see ok
<rsc-> (of course the OSX crowd is different from Ubuntu's target market)
<tuxice> i retract my comment
<tuxice> yes yes, very
<tuxice> Well i've been working on these https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/BrownOrange_Wallpaper
<rsc-> why stick to the ubuntu logo?
<rsc-> do something different
<rsc-> :)
<tuxice> such as?
<rsc-> i can't tell you what that is.
<rsc-> you'd have to figure that out yourself as a designer :)
<rsc-> the wallpaper: it's okay, it's safe.
<rsc-> which is exactly as everyone's reservations against the current default ibex wallpaper.
<tuxice> actually i should rephrase the question of, what else really fits ubuntu? But i guess i could mess with a few things
<tuxice> What do you mean?
<rsc-> everyone doesn't like the default ibex wallpaper because it's just a mere brown gradient with some circles
<rsc-> nothing really particularly special about it
<tuxice> hmmm
<rsc-> what would set your work apart from that?
<tuxice> good point.
<tuxice> ill begin some modifications
<tuxice> you did see both right?
<rsc-> yes
<tuxice> ok, im starting from scratch
<ziroday> rsc-: ooh that window is nice. What font is that?
<rsc-> I think that's humanst777 and avenir
<rsc-> proprietary fonts sorry :(
<ziroday> oh, they looked really really good
<tuxice> ok check out the one at the bottom of the page
<thorwil> tuxice: the background must allow icons and windows to stand in front. they would have to scream if the background is already that loud with a strong orange
<tuxice> ok
<thorwil> tuxice: i don't want to sound mean, but i'm very sure that you do not stand a chance to create a replacement for the intrepid bg that will be accepted. there have been more sophisticated wallpapers that have not been chosen
<thorwil> tuxice: if you want to have an impact, you should set sight on the next release afterwards, jaunty jackalope
<tuxice> i know
<thorwil> tuxice: that will give you plenty of time to practice, learn and improve
<tuxice> Is it really called jaunty jackalope
<thorwil> yes. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-September/000481.html
<rsc-> thorwil ;)
<rsc-> got something to show you!
<rsc-> :p
<rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/EarthenIbex1280.png
<thorwil> rsc-: a bit on the loud side. ibex appears too detached from the bg for my taste
<rsc-> okay
<rsc-> hehe
<rsc-> just playing around
<thorwil> rsc-: on the forum, people seem to like your ibex on my trivet :}
<rsc-> yeah
<tuxice> i like it
<thorwil> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/ubuntu-artwork/thorwils_backgrounds/download/33/rsc_ibex_trivet.jpg-20080927154856-l2xo5c38l0j5uun8-4/rsc_ibex_trivet.jpg?file_id=rsc_ibex_trivet.jpg-20080927154856-l2xo5c38l0j5uun8-4
<rsc-> i posted it  there too
<rsc-> that thread is annoying though
<rsc-> too much bitching
<thorwil> yes
<thorwil> the whole forum is annoying, imho :)
<rsc-> good point
<thorwil> maybe i will release a set of backgrounds in proximity of the release date
<thorwil> rsc-: with your stuff in there, i just can't call it thorwils backgrounds like initially considered :)
<rsc-> haha.
<rsc-> "Ibex on wood" :P
<thorwil> heh, there's a bit more
<rsc-> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Earthen+Ibex?content=90689
<thorwil> oh boy, SorinN is exhausting to read
<rsc-> i gave up reading it.
<rsc-> i simply cant
 * thorwil writes mail asking for whole sentences or silence
<tuxice> would you happen to have an svg or xcf?
<nox-Hand> The real version is 7016x9921 pixels, i.e an A1 printout
<nox-Hand> I have it in .psd, and can export it to whichever format
<ziroday> nox-Hand: thats nice. You may want to ask in #ubuntu-marketing
<nox-Hand> PSD version handy for editing later
<nox-Hand> Oho, so I should go there? =]
<tuxice> nox-Hand, the only problem i see is you is ou "The system has everything ou need"
<nox-Hand> HAHA =P
<nox-Hand> I just translated it from Danish, forgot to proofread
<nox-Hand> Fixed psd now :)
<tuxice> thank you,
<tuxice> and yes ask in ubuntu-marketing
<nox-Hand> Thanks for pointing out :)
<tuxice> np
<manolo> rsc-
<PRGUY85> rsc-, I think I found one of the best wallpapers that go with Dust.
<rsc-> PRGUY85, what is it?
<rsc-> also, http://www.behance.net/Gallery/Intrepid-Ibex/132891 :P
<PRGUY85> rsc-, http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=desktopjk4.png
<PRGUY85> rsc-, its one of the Mac Rocks wallpapers but this one fits better.
<rsc-> leopard?
<PRGUY85> yea
<rsc-> is that from the leopard default wallpaper pack?
<PRGUY85> yes
<rsc-> nah, it's gotta be free.
<rsc-> nice find though
<PRGUY85> i know, but I'm just saying.  Fits perfectly
<PRGUY85> since its brown rocks too
<rsc-> i got that wallpaper pack from my mac too
<rsc-> its the one that fit nicely from the entire pack
<PRGUY85> yea
<PRGUY85> I just installed latest Dust on laptop with Intrepid Beta
<rsc-> okay.
<PRGUY85> Dust looks awesome on laptops don't know why
<PRGUY85> only thing missing is a fitting GDM
<PRGUY85> rsc-, latest ibex wallpaper you did is awesome too.  Fits Dust perfectly.
<rsc-> hehe thanks
<PRGUY85> hey the community theme package hasn't got the latest dust
<Cimi_> http://www.cimitan.com/blog/2008/10/04/more-murrine-mockupsglazestyles/
<thorwil> Cimi_: i have to run for dinner, but just one question: would it be ok to use gaussian blur in mockups? is there a clean way to reach similar effects in implementation?
<thorwil> bbl
<Cimi_> cairo doesn't support gaussian blur, but you can do gradients
<thorwil> too bad. blur can make it a lot easier to signify smoothly bend surfaces
<Cimi_> thorwil, you can do a lot of algorithms anyway
<thorwil> well, at some point within project kyudo, we should create lots of mockups for all common widgets
<thorwil> is there anything a theme could get wrong, that would hinder i18n?
<Cimi_> ?
<Cimi_> what do you mean?
<thorwil> i'm currently working of the consequences the goals of ubuntu should have for an optimal theme
<thorwil> one point is about language support. the only thing i can think of that you could do wrong is to include text in icons or wallpapers
<carciofo> what means that  wartwork anyway?
<carciofo> -w
#ubuntu-artwork 2008-10-05
<ziroday> Cimi_: Hi, I can't seem to access your site www.cimitan.com
<thorwil> plop!
<aantn> woo hoo!
<aantn> plane time :)
<thorwil> aantn: for the that gnome hack fest already?
<aantn> thorwil: yup
<aantn> It's a 12 hour flight, and I'm already out of battery
 * aantn sighs
<thorwil> heh
<aantn> thorwil: later :)
<thorwil> aantn: have a good time!
<aantn> thorwil: thanks :)
 * thorwil waves to rsc-- 
<tuxice> Hey!
<thorwil> hi tuxice. i really think that adding further comments to the intrepid wallpaper bug does more harm than good
<tuxice> OK, can we request a bug closure?
<thorwil> tuxice: no. just let it sit there
<tuxice> Ok
<tuxice> I do hope that wallpaper gets changed....
<thorwil> the uproar was pretty loud and clear, now it's up to the people at canonical
<tuxice> Perfect.....
 * tuxice smiles evily
<tuxice> hey ldp
<thorwil> great. i tell tuxice to leave that wallpaper bug alone and he changes the status to "In Progress"
<kwwii> so....good evening everyone :-)
<thorwil> good evening kwwii
<kwwii> I wonder if I should test out another wallpaper :-)
<kwwii> either your version or the one from rico look pretty good, I think
<thorwil> kwwii: i read a sig that said that you should be fired becasue of the wallpaper 8-)
<kwwii> lol
<thorwil> kwwii: you mean Rico's ibex on my trivet vs his Earth edition?
<kwwii> thorwil: right
<thorwil> i can't give advice in this case, for obvious reasons
<thorwil> kwwii: however, pointer to XCF in my bzr: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/ubuntu-artwork/thorwils_backgrounds/annotate/33?file_id=rsc_ibex_trivet.xcf-20080927154856-l2xo5c38l0j5uun8-5
<kwwii> thorwil: right, I noted the bzr repo already
<thorwil> a backup that doesn't cost a thing. and maybe it will show to be actually useful :)
<thorwil> kwwii: however, what I can say is that Rico wasn't happy with my editions. especially not with the emboss effect. but he also said that he advices against the inclusion of his own last edition :/
<thorwil> in any case, i think adding a little green would be good ;)
<kwwii> I think it is kinda telling when people complain about all the brown an then also complain when I use another color
<thorwil> yes. but it could be that people have a hard time at making out what is wrong, if they just feel something isn't right
<kwwii> true
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-28
<mac_v> ckontros: sent the mail :)
<ckontros> (sending reply now)
<troy_s> Who is working on the panel monochrome icons at the moment?
<troy_s> kwwii: ^^^ ?
<jonian_g>  troy_s: mac_v
<tgpraveen> mac_v: kwwii your opinion on this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/humanity-icon-theme/+bug/437606 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437606 in humanity-icon-theme "usb hdds can't be spotted in nautilus side pane" [Undecided,New]
<mac_v> tgpraveen: hei .. you asked yesterday and left ;p
<mac_v> tgpraveen: it sure  , we can fix it ;)
<mac_v> s/it/...
<tgpraveen> mac_v: hey, yeah just making sure that u didnt miss it.
<tgpraveen> it is a regression and usabiity wise not good
<tgpraveen> thx
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> kwwii: how does this look? > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/start-here.svg ,  fix for Bug 437379
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437379 in humanity "Ubuntu icon doesnt look good in humanity" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437379
<mat_t> morning all!
<kwwii> mac_v: much better
<mac_v> kwwii: also , for the dark panels is this color OK > 969696ff ?
<kwwii> mac_v: where is that color going to be used?
<mac_v> on the panel
<mac_v> for the monochrome icons
<mac_v> present shade is >  878787ff
<kwwii> mac_v: hrm, that seems a bit light to me, but I guess I'd need to see it in action
<mac_v> kwwii: that is only for the dust theme , UNR , remember you wanted it light ;)
<kwwii> mac_v: ahhhh, so that color is for UNR?
<mac_v> yeah
<kwwii> lol, then yes...it is light enough :p
<mac_v> ;)
<kwwii> I am heading out to the hospital with my son. Be back later this afternoon
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<MadsRH> knome -> Ping! :-D
<mac_v> kwwii: Humanity is done ;)  ...  also Humanity-Dark done ;)
<knome> MadsRH, good day ;) i got your link
<psyke83> hi
<mat_t> mac_v: can I see the new Ubuntu icon somewhere?
<mat_t> mac_v: I don't think we should rush changes like that - I'm not sure if the proposed icon is actually better
<mac_v> mat_t: $bzr branch lp:humanity
<mac_v> check it out ;)
<mac_v> its not a huge change , just made it consistent
<mac_v> i made the icon consistent with the larger sizes
<mac_v> kwwii: humanity dark > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Humanity-Dark.tar.gz
<mac_v> mat_t: ^
<mat_t> mac_v: please always try to consult changes like that - it is not a trivial decision
<mac_v> mat_t: thats why i asked kwwii first ;)
<mat_t> ok :)
<psyke83> kwwii: got an update for the metacity that you may like, will send along in a few minutes
<mat_t> mac_v: $bzr branch lp:humanity doesn't seem to work
<mac_v> mat_t: did you also enter "$" ?
<mat_t> yes
<mac_v> mat_t: not supposed to ;) >   bzr branch lp:humanity
<psyke83> mat_t: when somebody prefixes a line with "$", that's just telling you that you need to type the line at a command prompt on a terminal
<knome> psyke83, unless the line is "$ = power"
<mat_t> ah, I see - as you can tell I'm not a natural born geek :)
<psyke83> :P
<mac_v> knome:  ;p
<mat_t> mac_v: works now, thanks
<knome> ;)
<mac_v> mat_t: i'v edited only the 24px icon , you can find the old version > http://launchpad.net/humanity/0.3/0.3/+download/humanity_0.3.1.tar.gz
<mat_t> mac_v: ok, I can't get the new one to work somehow
<mat_t> mac_v: can we hold with this change please
<mac_v> mat_t: it not working as in?
<mac_v> its*
<mac_v> i only edited the icon , there should be no problem of not working... :(  works fine here
<mat_t> mac_v: I like the new indicator icons
<mat_t> mac_v: the contrast is much better
<mac_v> mat_t: :) thanks
<mat_t> mac_v: the bluetooth icon should lose the lozenge though
<mat_t> mac_v: let's try just the "B" with no lozenge
<mac_v> mat_t: i have the icon ready thats a bug in the app > Bug #437162
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437162 in humanity-icon-theme "Missing monochrome icon for bluetooth applet" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437162
<mac_v> the notification area uses the icon of the app :/
<mac_v> thats the only app which is misbehaving , hence i used the icon with the lozenge
<mac_v> no other app[volume,nm,power] does that :/
<andreasn> rhythmbox behaves correctly?
<mac_v> andreasn: hehe , for now no app specific icons ;)
<mat_t> mac_v: so is the bug in the bluetooth applet or in the humanity theme?
<mac_v> mat_t: bug in bluetooth
<mat_t> mac_v: bluetooth should not be defining the icon
<mac_v> the bug report has the patch too , and it has been sent upstream
<mat_t> ok
<mat_t> mac_v: the little key for secure networks doesn't seem to work
<mac_v> mat_t: is it blurry? or.. did not like a key?
<mat_t> mac_v: it overlaps with some icons
<mat_t> mac_v: and it's not stylistically coherent
<mac_v> mat_t: oh , could you show me a screenshot , i tested it with wireless alone
<mac_v> mat_t: i had first used a lock , but someone said the vpn also uses the same lock , hence i did the key
<mat_t> mac_v: who suggested using key instead of a lock?
<mat_t> mac_v: lock is the universally agreed metaphor for secure connections
<mac_v> mat_t: not kwwii , i forgot who... i think the lock is better too
<mat_t> mac_v: ok, can we revert to lock then pls?
<mat_t> mac_v: what does the monitor with blue waves mean?
<mac_v> sure ... so there is no probs if the vpn and the secure use similar lock?
<mac_v> mat_t: that is for ad-hoc connection
<thorwil> mat_t: hi! do you happen to know what the state of matters regarding the countdown banner is? i'd ask newz, but he isn't around
<mat_t> thorwil: no idea, check with kwwii when he's back
<thorwil> ok
<mat_t> mac_v: what's the vpn icon look like?
<mac_v> mat_t: could you check in the apps/24/ folder
<mac_v> or just a sec
<mat_t> mac_v: the monitor icon is very confusing, that is the "ad-hoc" connection?
<mac_v> mat_t: previously, i had a wireless icon similar to the greyscale icon but in color kwwii thought that it might be confusing
<mac_v> so suggested to use a different icon
<mac_v> mat_t: ad-hoc is a mobile connection which can be configured or something like that
<mat_t> mac_v: 99% of users would not understand what this monitor means
<mac_v> mat_t: the hicolor icon for adhoc , uses just a monitor
<mac_v> mat_t: blame the nm for showing the icon ;)
<mac_v> i agree it is confusing too , another user showed the icon
<mat_t> *sigh*
<andreasn> lots of icons in nm :)
<mac_v> mat_t: only when i was shown a screenshot ,  i realized that was for ad-hoc and googled ad-hoc ;)
<mat_t> mac_v: ok, so let's use a monochrome lock for secure connection and I'll file a bug about this icon
<mac_v> mat_t: nah no need bug , i'll just fix it ;)
<mac_v> now
<mat_t> mac_v: I mean for the monitor icon
<andreasn> if you guys want to file bugs on the metaphors used in hicolor, I could take a look at those later on
<mac_v> mat_t: oh! yeah , that icon is not necessary
<mat_t> yes
<mat_t> mac_v: is it a n-m applet bug?
<mac_v> mat_t: yes
<tgpraveen> http://bayimg.com/GAEjlaACC this is jaunty with humanity icon theme
<tgpraveen> so its showing colours doesn't this look better than what's in karmic with monochrome theme?
<tgpraveen> shown for eg in http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=130046&d=1254129228
<tgpraveen> look especially in the volume icon
<mac_v> tgpraveen: the theme has been done for Karmic
<mac_v> and there are no problems with the default settings
<tgpraveen> mac_v: you mean you like the karmic image icon tray more than the jaunty ones?
<mac_v> tgpraveen: yup ;) though i did both the color and the greyscale versions ;p
<mac_v> tgpraveen: the main reason is , the notification is a constant presence , so having colors in the area [though fun] is not needed unless it has to grab your attention
<mac_v> tgpraveen: therefore only the error icons being in red will make them pop out more and be quickly picked up
<tgpraveen> hmm..ok I see ur point.
<tgpraveen> and btw now that I do have your attention. in totem
<mac_v> tgpraveen: hehe it was not my idea... but i just like the idea the UX had
<tgpraveen> in fullscreen the volume icon is very small in the bar at the bottom
<mac_v> tgpraveen: totem uses only that size
<tgpraveen> mac_v: oh yeah I just checked with human
<mac_v> ;p
<tgpraveen> it seems so. maybe a bug against totem as it seems there is space available to use a bigger size?
<mac_v> tgpraveen: sure file it against totem ;) , humanity has the icons in all sizes
<tgpraveen> also after all the complaints I must add that it seems humanity is really really cool and will give a must needed facelift to ubuntu. eg in totem now that play icon is of different colour than the fwd/bkd and other icons it gives prominence to it and improves the overall look
<tgpraveen> good job. thanks :)
<mac_v>  :)
<mac_v> mat_t: btw did you file the nm-applet bug for ad-hoc? if so link pls :) , i'd like to keep track of it
<mat_t> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-applet/+bug/438111
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438111 in network-manager-applet ""Ad hoc connection" icon in the network menu is very confusing" [Undecided,New]
<mac_v> thanks :)
<tgpraveen> mac_v: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596601
<ubottu> Gnome bug 596601 in general "Increase size of volume icon in fullscreen mode" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<tgpraveen> in case you want to add
<psyke83> kwwii: sent the metacity update to your e-mail, let me know if you like or hate ;)
<psyke83> the screenshot is also in my thread here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1168984
<kwwii> re
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, I'll check it out in a bit, just returned from the hospital
<knome> kwwii, hospital?!
<kwwii> my son had an operation today
<knome> ah
<kwwii> psyke83: as long as the trough border is making a bug on maximised windows I think we have to turn it off :(
<psyke83> kwwii: hey, is your son ok?
<kwwii> psyke83: yes, it was a planned op (on his foot). As a father everything is important though ;)
<psyke83> heh
<psyke83> well, glad he's ok
<kwwii> yeah, me too :)
<psyke83> as for the trough, that's unfortunate... however, I do have a feeling the bug can be fixed. I think that Cimi got confused between this issue in Firefox vs all other apps
<psyke83> if it can't, it's not the end of the world if we set the trough back to 0
<psyke83> ;)
<kwwii> psyke83: actually, I think it looks *much* better with a trough
<psyke83> kwwii: true
<psyke83> did you see the last comment on the bug report?
<psyke83> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-theme/+bug/422511
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 422511 in human-theme "problem with new scrollbar in Human theme - GtkRange::trough-border set to 2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<tgpraveen> with humanity if I have a folder open in nautilius then in the boottom panel in the window list nautilius  entry has folder icon with a mouse arrowi
<tgpraveen> is thiss intentional?
<psyke83> kwwii: this can be fixed with a little effort... according to that comment, Cimi could possibly fix it in Murrine, otherwise it belongs in gtk itself. It should be fixed anyway
<psyke83> if you know any gtk (code, not theme) experts, they may be able to lend a hand
<psyke83> I imagine it would be a trivial patch
<thorwil> kwwii: hi! do you know of a decision regarding the countdown banner?
<kwwii> one min, phone
<krabador> (please, think seriously about some madsrosendahl stuff...) :)
<kwwii> thorwil: I talked to newz about and will have a call in a moment concerning it as well :)
<thorwil> kwwii: ok
<kwwii> thorwil: essentially, we are letting the community drive it, so don't expect us to be too picky ;)
<kwwii> thorwil: so far, AndrewH and one of your versions are at the top of the list...the design team is going to hash things out with matt and get in touch
<thorwil> kwwii: note that my set lacks the option of centered numbers like in the last column combined with the A/B style
<thorwil> kwwii: but the main reason i'm asking is the slideshow. i don't want to mess with javascript before i hear you even want that one and there's short time left
 * thorwil still has half a kitchen to disassemble
<psyke83> kwwii: I just noticed that the title text is not centred properly. I'll send the update in a few mins
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: when copying files in the notification area the icon which appears to represt file transfer is same as the folder icon with a mouse shouldn't this be something different
<tgpraveen1> ? which tells about file transfer?
<mac_v> tgpraveen1:  isnt a mouse over a folder an action? example of something to replace it with?
<tgpraveen1> um.. maybe something like one folder behind another folder
<tgpraveen1> or a file behind a file and
<tgpraveen1> also
<tgpraveen1> same icon is being used for
<tgpraveen1>  if I have a folder open in nautilius then in the bottom panel in the window list nautilius  entry has folder icon with a mouse arrowi
<d6g> mac_v: just did some hack on gnome-bluetooth's source code, it seems not hard to use a "bluetooth-enalbed" status icon
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: folder over folder > already used for folder copy , file over file > copy
<mac_v> d6g: awesome :) , does the icon now work in the panel for you ?
<d6g> yes, i created a bluetooth-enabled icon manually and now system tray and menu will use different icons
<mac_v> d6g: coudl you ask in #ubuntu-desktop who the maintainer for gnome-bluetooth is and see if we can push your patch :)
<mac_v> could*
<d6g> sure
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: well folder copy or file copy does better represent file transfer so yeah it would be a better sutied icon in the notification area , no?
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: and also same icon for that(file operations) and for folder in panel  seems odd?
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: AFAIK that icon is used for , *all* file operations , delete and other things too
<mac_v> so is your idea applied to that too?
<mac_v> in the notification area an also on top of the window , the same icon is used
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: there is already a bug , to rename the notification area icon
<darkmatter> is there a bug to change the 'resistor' for a wired network to something that at least remotely resembles and ethernet cable ? :P
<mac_v> darkmatter: pls no :(   hehe ;p
<darkmatter> :P
<mac_v> darkmatter: that similar icon is used in firefox , thunderbird , and evolution to denote connection state... hence it might not be tood bad ;)
<tgpraveen1> I think there is some confusion here. so let me state everything clearly. there are 2 issues . 1. the currently used icon does not at all depict file operations and as you said the folder behind folder or file behind file would ideally dpeict file operations and hence it should be used in the notification area
<tgpraveen1> 2. the currently used icon in the notification area for file operation
<tgpraveen1> is same as the icon used in the panel with the window list when nautilius is minimized while viewing a folder and hence too some thing must be changed
<tgpraveen1> 3. the icon used in the panel with the window list when nautilius is minimized while viewing a folder and hence too some thing must be changed is using a folder with mouse arrow. I really don't understand why the arrow is present in this case a simple folder icon would be more suited for this purpose. don't you think?
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: there is a bug on lp asking for the naming change , cold you comment this on the bug?
<mac_v> could*
<darkmatter> mac_v: well. if maybe they swung it 45 degrees or so.. it looks... odd... as is on the panel and doesn't really seem to fit (partially because of the angle. since the image goes corner to corner, it actually seems larger than the rest)
<knome> http://emonk.fi/open/xubuntu/9.10/Usplash/logo_comparison.png
<knome> anybody have an idea how to make the xubuntu logo (right) look better?
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: give me the bug # . but I don't understand what the name change has to do with this. I feel problem with the icon maybe the bug will telll me more
<mac_v> darkmatter: yeah , i'v fixed the size in the recent revs
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: search in humanity and nautilus
<darkmatter> mac_v: ahh... kk.. I'll have to check the latest
<knome> (see the mouse tail overlapping the ubuntu logo)
<mac_v> darkmatter: also if i do it horizontally , then the vertical space was not used , making it smaller than the rest :(
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: about issues 2 and 3?
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: anyway , i didnt do that icon ;)   so you are better of convincing Daniel about this :)
<darkmatter> mac_v: well, since it's a 'wired' network you could always make a phone jack with stoner eyes :P
<mac_v> darkmatter: lol , kwwii just changed that icon ;)
<darkmatter> hehe
<tgpraveen1> mac_v: humanity-icon-theme this is the right package for the bugs
<tgpraveen1> right?
<tgpraveen1> am gonna file em then lets see how it goes
 * darkmatter returns to his karmic vm
<kwwii> psyke83: you probably missed my nasty hack to human metacity
<psyke83> kwwii: what hack?
<kwwii> I moved it over a few pixels from center
<psyke83> kwwii: I can get access to it via "$ bzr lp:human-theme" ?
<psyke83> *bzr branch
<krabador> please change the splash, i know you can do better... ;)
<psyke83> I'll add any hacks into the version I modified (if the hacks are still required - as I fixed a lot of "invisible" rendering errors)
<kwwii> psyke83: yes, that is where it is
<kwwii> krabador: ???
<kwwii> psyke83: killer
<psyke83> kwwii: I have the changes at hand now... I'll incorporate your fixes after dinner, and will send along :)
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, thanks
<kwwii> I promise I will wrap this stuff up tonight ;)
<psyke83> kwwii: having dinner now, but I'd like to tweak the gtk theme ever so slightly to bring back the "new" progressbar, will send that with the metacity if I can get a good look from it
<psyke83> be back later
<mac_v> kwwii: did you check out the humanity icons?
<kwwii> mac_v: currently trying to get the icons for gdm
<kwwii> mac_v: I'm updating later this evening, finishing the human theme, etc
<mac_v> kwwii: UNR folks are asking for a solution soon , :( ,
<mac_v> i have done the icons for the dust panel too
<kwwii> mac_v: erm, what is that waiting on me?
<kwwii> s/what/why
<SiDi> kwwii: who wrote the HumanLogin theme ,
<SiDi> ?*
<kwwii> SiDi: I made it out of other existing themes, why?
<kwwii> I tweaked quite a bit
<SiDi> Do you know of ways to theme GDM from another gtkrc ?
<SiDi> ive been having a bad time trying to figure how to theme combobox entries in gdm...
<mac_v> we made the icons dark for human theme and for Ubunutu , right? so now the panel icons are more not clear in Dust... so we had yesterday decided to split the panel icons and make them lighter for Dust and UNR , and name the panel icon theme Humanit_dark with inherits Humanity
<mac_v> kwwii: ^
<mac_v> kwwii: and the icons for dark panel > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Humanity-Dark.tar.gz
<kwwii> wow
<mac_v> that ^ works without any problems for me
<kwwii> SiDi: it is just a gconf setting
<SiDi> a gconf setting to point to a new theme, you mean ?
<kwwii> mac_v: ok, I am making my son dinner atm, I will be back in an hour or two and we can wrap things up then, ok?
<kwwii> SiDi: yes
<SiDi> basically, the combobox entries remain white, even if i put EVERYTHING in my theme to dark...
<mac_v> kwwii: sure , no probs
<SiDi> im beginning to wonder if the white isnt hardcoded x_x
<mat_t> mac_v: I need to create new icons for gdm (power + accessibility), do you know what size they need to be at?
<mac_v> mat_t:  i think they are 24px
<SiDi> mat_t: the "panel" looks like its about 28px, so the icons should be between 22 and 26 :P
<SiDi> most likely 24 :P
<mat_t> ok, I'll make them at 24
<mac_v> mat_t: could you check the latest rev of humanity and check how the ad-hoc looks?
<mac_v> anything scarier than that would need a skull and bones ;p
<kwwii> mat_t: I would make them at 22
<kwwii> if they need to be 24 we can add padding
<mat_t> mac_v: I can't see it, can you upload a screenshot?
<mat_t> kwwii: ok, no probs
<kwwii> SiDi: the colors in the login theme are often hard-coded
<mac_v> mat_t: i dont have an ad-hoc nearby... you could just do a bzr pull from the humanity folder
<SiDi> (i meant hardcoded in GDM's source, kwwii )
<mac_v> the one you just downloaded
<SiDi> we use Albatross as our GDM theme and i can only change the panel itself's color ...
<mat_t> mac_v: I did, but the icon does not display anymore...
<kwwii> SiDi: does the gtkrc define colors at the top?
<SiDi> yes
<kwwii> ouch, freaky
<mac_v> mat_t: oh , so that network , might have been , out of range :/
<SiDi> yeah...
<kwwii> it has to work or the humanlogin wouldn't work
<kwwii> it would be using black text
<SiDi> ive tried every class name with some sexy * everywhere, and only that panel gets themed
<SiDi> i'll read gdm's source
<kwwii> SiDi: what are you trying to change?
<SiDi> but im disappointed by the lack of documentation...
<kwwii> exactly
<SiDi> kwwii: the combobox entries' background + foreground
<mac_v> mat_t: could you check the icon in the folder , Humanity/status/24/nm-adhoc
<kwwii> oh, that is typical of gnome these days ;)
<SiDi> its black on white atm, but our panel is dark
<kwwii> SiDi: it works fine with the humanlogin theme, I cannot understand why it wouldn't work for you
<SiDi> me neither, kwwii :(
<kwwii> the gtkrc might use hard-coded colors
<kwwii> even though they define them at the top
<SiDi> i'll boot later in gdm and try to sort this out :P
<kwwii> SiDi: combobox bg is the base(bg)
<SiDi> s/in gdm/in karmic/
<SiDi> what a **** great idea they had to use custom names for all their gtk widgets...
<mat_t> mac_v: hm, didn't seem to make any change... can you email it to me?
<mac_v> mat_t: email takes too long ;p ... here > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/nm-adhoc.svg
<zniavre> SiDi,  http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3742/capturewk.png
<mat_t> mac_v: I don't think this solves the confusion... In essence, it's a security issue... How about a lock with the warning triangle?
<mat_t> It needs to be *very* subtle
<mac_v> mat_t:  its a 24 px icon , adding more items would make the icon less useful :(
<mac_v> sorry not less useful , less recognizble
<psyke83> folks, who's asking about the combobox theming?
<psyke83> you need to set up special matches for these cases - look at the bottom of the Human theme for reference
<mat_t> mac_v: I meant *just* lock and triangle
<mac_v> mat_t: hmm... but then , it wouldnt indicate a wireless connection
<mac_v> is that ok?
<mat_t> mac_v: well, it *is* a wireless connection, because it's in the menu called "Wireless Networks" ;)
<mac_v> ;p
<mat_t> and we already have the wireless strength icon
<mac_v> yeah ,then
<mac_v> mat_t: how about using the gtk-warning icon?
<psyke83> SiDi: see "murrine-combobox-text-color-workaround", "murrine-menuitem-text-is-fg-color-workaround" and possibly some other special cases
<mat_t> mac_v: what icon is it?
<mac_v> mat_t: a red circle , with an exclamation mark
<SiDi> psyke83: zniavre ty
<SiDi> will look at this
<mat_t> mac_v: that will be too shouty
<mac_v> mat_t: how about a blue circle with an exclamation mark ?
<mac_v> since the signal strength and the encryption state will already be shown to the right of the icon
<mac_v> the lock is not needed and just a exclamation mark might be enough
<mat_t> how would you know that there's a security issue?
<mac_v> hmm...
<mat_t> excl mark only tells you "there's an issue"
<mac_v> mat_t: how about adding a zorro mask ;p ? with the exclamation mark?
<mac_v> prowler alert!
<mac_v> mat_t: or something like this > http://www.iconfinder.net/icondetails/15216/128/?q=thief with an exclamation mark
<psyke83> kwwii: you've darkened the gradient on the titlebar, that's one of the changes?
<kwwii> psyke83: that was an old change which will be reverted when I put your suggested changed in
<psyke83> kwwii: ok, so you only want to preserve the changes to the buttons and icons?
<psyke83> let me show you the diff that I'm looking at
<psyke83> kwwii: http://pastebin.com/m3854683a
<psyke83> kwwii, so, the changes marked from line 154 are necessary?
<psyke83> I'm pretty sure that all the other changes are to lighten the border, etc
<mat_t> mac_v: hmmmmm, no
<mat_t> :P
<mac_v> mat_t: just realized , ! that icon will be used elsewhere alone too :(
<mac_v> so the indication that its a wireless and and a network must also be present..
<mac_v> grrr.....! nm applet does the craziest stuff!
<mac_v> d6g|away: nice keyboard icon :)
<kwwii> psyke83: right, exactly
<kwwii> we do not want the little app icons back in the window deco
<psyke83> kwwii: I already fixed that, but the prelight for the round icon was missing. I added that back, will send to you in a few mins
<mac_v> kwwii: ping me when you are available :)
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah, I think I need to make an extra icon for that as well
<kwwii> mac_v: re
<kwwii> I feel like I have been running around all afternoon and evening
<kwwii> wait, I have been running around all afternoon and evening :p
 * kwwii boots into karmic
<mac_v> ;)
 * kwwii pops open a well deserved beer
<mac_v> kwwii: hey hows your son?
<mac_v> how's
<kwwii> mac_v: good, hopefully the next pill he takes will put him to sleep :p
<mac_v> lol
<kwwii> mac_v: so are the icon changes already in karmic?
<mac_v> kwwii: no, they are waiting for you :)
<kwwii> psyke83: let me know which stuff is the latest...I can't keep track anymore :p
<kwwii> mac_v: ok, so where can I get the latest?
<psyke83> kwwii: sending to your e-mail in 2 mins :). If there's a better place to send, let me know
<kwwii> psyke83: that would be perfect
<kwwii> I have to copy everything to my test machine, which often ends up being a good excuse to put it off for a while :p
<mac_v> kwwii:  $bzr branch lp:humanity
<kwwii> mac_v: ok, it'S downloading updates, this will take a few minutes
<kwwii> mac_v: is that the packaged version?
<mac_v> no, the lates revs , with better contrast
<psyke83> kwwii: sent, it's the final reply with the metacity and gtkrc together ;)
<kwwii> ok, cool
<kwwii> psyke83: excellent, thanks (and sorry for having to be my secretary)
<psyke83> kwwii: I increased the gloss effect *slightly*. I know you're not a big fan, but it's kinda subtle, and it does use the glowstyle 4 which you like to diffuse the centre part
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, I'll test it out and get back to you asap
<psyke83> also, it's an advantage to have higher gloss with the coloured widgets (progressbars, scrollbars), because of the darker brown
<kwwii> have to install bzr, etc. to check the icons out :(
<kwwii> psyke83: got it
<kwwii> psyke83: the metacity now has a larger brown outline, is that on purpose?
<kwwii> there seems to be a line in the middle of the outside border as well...a difference in the browns
<psyke83> kwwii: yes, I wanted your feedback on the gradient (it's easier to see with a large outline). If you like the gradient, you can reduce the outline size
<psyke83> kwwii: yep, that is deliberate
<kwwii> I like the gradient in the top, not so much on the sides
<kwwii> on my small monitor it is very prominent
<psyke83> kwwii: there's two gradients there, would you prefer just one?
<psyke83> the first gradient is the first third of the sides, the second is the remaining two thirds
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah, the whole outside border would be better with just one gradient
<kwwii> although I am not sure if we should make such a large change after beta
<kwwii> psyke83: one decision that came down the line to me was that we should not use a colored scrollbar
<psyke83> ok, so will we bring back the original grey scrollbar and set the trough to 0?
<kwwii> also, I have been playing with making the bg color something around e5d8cb
<kwwii> well, that might be too dark but something around there
<psyke83> I like that bg color on my laptop, but let me check the desktop
<psyke83> (much different colour reproduction between the two :P)
<psyke83> yes, I like that
<psyke83> I would have gone for something similar, but figured that such a shift wouldn't be approved
<psyke83> kwwii: re: the scrollbar, it's possible to keep it in the current style, but shade it to something else, such as 80% of the @bg_color, for example
<psyke83> the biggest problem with the murrine engine, imho, is that the standard uncoloured scrollbar is not distinct from its background, and the background can't be themed
<kwwii> psyke83: right, that was the idea...to make it a darker version of bg[NORMAL]
<kwwii> psyke83: right, just making it grey makes it unnoticeable
<psyke83> kwwii: do you want to hammer out these changes, or will I do it and send back to you?
<kwwii> psyke83: I can work on it for a while, see where I get
<kwwii> I'll send you anything that I get done
<psyke83> excellent, thanks
<psyke83> you're using the newest stuff as your base though, right?
<kwwii> glad to help you help me :D
<kwwii> yes
<psyke83> actually, do you want me to fix up the metacity? I know exactly what part to change for the gradient
<kwwii> psyke83: sure, feel free...I'll stick to gtk for now
<kwwii> mac_v: ok, I got the icons
<kwwii> mac_v: how are you installing this? just copying over the old ones?
<mac_v> kwwii: yeah
<kwwii> ouch, not my favorite way, but ok
<mac_v> kwwii: also > http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1325768/Humanity-Dark.tar.gz
<mac_v> extract that folder for testing the Dark theme with Dust
<mac_v> that to folder*
<SiDi`Laptop> kwwii, any idea how to remove / theme the shadow color of the header text in the update-manager ? :D
<kwwii> mac_v: ok, so the ones in bzr are the normal ones for the desktop, right?
<mac_v> yup , bzr = Ubuntu
<kwwii> SiDi`Laptop: I have no idea which header text you mean
<SiDi`Laptop> "software updates available..."
<psyke83> kwwii: I have another idea re: the metacity. I'll show you a screenshot in a sec
<SiDi`Laptop> http://emonk.fi/temp/updatemanager_gtk.png
<kwwii> SiDi`Laptop: ohhh, wow...that cannot be right
<kwwii> SiDi`Laptop: my guess is that something like that is a hard-coded hack
<SiDi`Laptop> kwwii, thats my guess too /D
<kwwii> mac_v: how are you updating the icon cache and such when you copy icons in?
<mac_v> hm , never did that :(
<kwwii> ok, gotta restart my desktop...brb
<mac_v> but without that also works fine here
<SiDi`Laptop> kwwii, thanks ! i found it
<SiDi`Laptop> its an unexpectable side effect of some hardcoded value for xfwm's borders x_x
<kwwii> mac_v: hrm, something in karmic just killed the volume and network applets
<SiDi`Laptop> apparently the shadow of insensitive text is taken from metacity-frame's insensitive color :p
<kwwii> SiDi`Laptop: freaky
<mac_v> kwwii: yeah , the volume and nm are crazy :/
<kwwii> me restarts the whole machine, brb
<SiDi`Laptop> kwwii, its probably because they put that text in the gtk window itself directly
<mac_v> SiDi`Laptop: you are talking to his bot ;p
<mac_v> he is rebooting
<SiDi`Laptop> i like talking to bots
<SiDi`Laptop> they're so rarely mean
<SiDi`Laptop> :D
<psyke83> folks, opinions on which is better please: two gradients to choose from: gradient 1 (top dark to light bottom): http://img527.imageshack.us/i/gradient1.png/ - OR - gradient 2 (top dark to light centre, light centre to dark bottom): http://img121.yfrog.com/img121/6965/gradient2.png
<mac_v> psyke83: hmm, why the thick border?
<mac_v> too think on the sides, IMO
<psyke83> mac_v, the border will be reduced, it's thick to help choose the better gradient
<mac_v> thick*
<mac_v> oh ok :)
<SiDi`Laptop> Wheres the gradient to look at ?
<kwwii> mac_v: much better
<SiDi`Laptop> oh, metacity
<psyke83> SiDi`Laptop, the metacity window decoration, the vertical strip on the left and right sides
<SiDi`Laptop> psyke83, i prefer the 1st, i think
<SiDi`Laptop> but its because the bottom of the second is quite dark
<kwwii> psyke83: I like gradient2.png better
<SiDi`Laptop> maybe make the bottom of the second slightly lighter ?
<mac_v> psyke83: maybe a crazy idea , how about reversing gradient of 1  , ie: top light and botom dark ;)
<psyke83> SiDi`Laptop: we can lighten the bottom
<kwwii> psyke83: but I agree that the border is a bit too thick
<psyke83> kwwii: definitely will reduce the border, but it helps us see things better for now
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, and true
<mac_v> psyke83: not the same shade a the present lower edge but a bit darker
<mac_v>  shade of the*
<psyke83> mac_v: it's not really possible to do it light to dark from the top, because it won't match the titlebar
<psyke83> it needs to start the same colour as the titlebar on top
<mac_v> psyke83: oh , i meant lightening th title bar too
<mac_v> the*
<psyke83> mac_v: any lighter and it'll be identical to Human in Jaunty
<mac_v> ;)
<psyke83> AFAIK we want it much darker for Karmic
<mac_v> oh , ok
<psyke83> right Ken?
<ia>  hello. could you tell me, please, where (in system) i can find grub boot picture (which can be seen after boot menu, but before gdm appears) - white lightning ubuntu logo on black background.
<knome> ia, that's either usplash or xsplash
<mac_v> ia: /usr/share/images/xsplash
<psyke83> kwwii: so we'll use gradient 2, but do you want the gradient darker or lighter in any place?
<kwwii> mac_v: looks good to me
<kwwii> seems to be enough contrast
<kwwii> both light and dark
<kwwii> well done :)
<mac_v> kwwii: thanks :)
<mac_v> my whole weekend was spent on this :(
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> but is was *fun*
<kwwii> :p
<mac_v> figuring out where to use the color and where not
<mac_v> ;p
<mac_v> kwwii: so now we need to push this.. so how do we set it up? a separate branch in lp
<mac_v> for the dark icons
<kwwii> mac_v: a different project
<kwwii> or sub-project if that is possible
<mac_v> sub
<mac_v> woulb be better i think
<mac_v> DanRabbit: ^
<DanRabbit> Okay, how do you do that?
<DanRabbit> new project?
<kwwii> I don't think it is possible to make a sub
<kwwii> so it would have to be a new project
<kwwii> you could do it in a branch, but that would get nasty
<kwwii> and since you cannot merge them anyway
<mac_v> i think is we just have these panel icons in the separate theme , it would save space
<kwwii> just make a new project
<mac_v> s/is/if
<kwwii> sure, just put those in
<mac_v> ah!
<kwwii> if they were all packaged there would be a dependency on the other theme package
<mac_v> DanRabbit: like how you did the Humanity-UNR
<mac_v> danielgc: just label it Humanity-Dark
<kwwii> right
<psyke83> kwwii and folks, how's this? Gradient 2 with smaller borders: http://yfrog.com/3zgradient2smallborderp
<DanRabbit> kwwii: i'm just worried that it's going to be hard to maintain both sets
<mac_v> DanRabbit: once done , i'll add these icons and the icon at my end and remove the ones not needed
<DanRabbit> okay
<kwwii> DanRabbit: yes, that is the biggest problem
<kwwii> if it was just the dark versions, you could simply include a script to copy them over the ones from the "real" theme
<kwwii> but really, you want to keep all of this packaged in bzr, if you ask me
<DanRabbit> okay mac_v, kwwii: icons are now located in lp:humanitydark
<DanRabbit> or they will in a second ;)
<DanRabbit> slow internet.
<kwwii> cool
<mac_v> DanRabbit: so thats now just a duplicate of the present humanity right?
<DanRabbit> right
<kwwii> mac_v: can you take of getting this included in the distro or would you like me to do it?
<mac_v> kwwii: i'm not sure how to do it
<kwwii> ie asking the right people the right questions :)
<mac_v> kwwii: lool and other will say ,what did kwwiii say , s i the end you'd be needed either way ;)
<mac_v> others*
<kwwii> mac_v: ok, it is late now, most are probably gone...tomorrow morning we'll ask in seb and pitti and lool in ubuntu-desktop
<kwwii> lol, probably
<mac_v> kwwii: seb has come
<mac_v> DanRabbit: would it be better having a hyphen? humanity-dark?
<kwwii> mac_v: not sure if they will respond tonight, but you saw #ubuntu-desktop, they should be aware
<kwwii> and will probably need a reminder :p
<DanRabbit> yea, I'll add it in after the first push
<mac_v> kwwii: thats enough ;)
<kwwii> whatever changes you make, make them before they are included in the distro
<kwwii> we can only ask for uploads once or twice
<psyke83> kwwii: update sent for you to play with (smaller borders, gradient 2) :P
<kwwii> psyke83: cool, thanks
<psyke83> no problem
<kwwii> getting these colors right is *really* hard
<kwwii> I hate orange and brown
<psyke83> kwwii: imho, e5d8cb is close... I like it
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah, it is close, but not perfect
<kwwii> getting it perfect is really hard
<psyke83> kwwii: spending too much time makes you "colourblind", too :P. You'll find a colour that looks great, then take a break from the PC and return to a horrible colour on the screen
<kwwii> no doubt
<kwwii> at suse I did green for 7 years...I hated it
<kwwii> and now I hate orange
<kwwii> I am slowly running out of colors :p
<psyke83> you'll soon grow to despise brown :)
<psyke83> well you have two primary colours left - red (red hat) and blue (fedora). Do you want to work for the community or a company in your next job? :P
<SiDi`Laptop> kwwii, join xubuntu and do some blue
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> redhat offered me a job about a year ago
<kwwii> SiDi`Laptop: kubuntu keeps saying the same thing :)
<SiDi`Laptop> our blue palette is sweeter !
<kwwii> :)
<SiDi`Laptop> knome is torturing me
<SiDi`Laptop> i have a math course at 8AM tomorrow, a very very important one
<SiDi`Laptop> and he's making me change colors in our gtkrc
<SiDi`Laptop> exactly the opposite of what he made me do before :(
<knome> NOT!
<kwwii> if you don't go back and forth at least 3 times the colors won't look as good
<kwwii> that is a well known fact
<knome> kwwii is SO right! :)
<kwwii> andreasn: hey, being the icon master you are...check out the latest humanity icon set on lp (bzr branch lp:humanity) with the new, improved darker panel notification icons. Enough contrast on a light-colored panel?
<andreasn> kwwii, sure, I'll check it out first thing tomorrow
<kwwii> andreasn: cool, thnx
<andreasn> kwwii, I've only tried it out on karmic trunk(?) so far, but it looks nice in general
<andreasn> we also need to figure out these notification icons, got a mail from mpt about a idea he had
<dashua> mac_v, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/25928/screenshot_zStyQa.png
<dashua> Humanity-Dark <3
<andreasn> kwwii, about the use of *-symbolic
<andreasn> kwwii, should I forward the e-mail?
<DanRabbit> dashua: that's hot
<mac_v> dashua: glad you like it :)   thanks to kwwii ,we are able to use it...
<mac_v> David *almost* sent the mail to have those icons removed :(
<dashua> DanRabbit, Thx :)
<dashua> AndrewSB on this channel?
<SiDi`Laptop> DanRabbit, elementaryXubuntu is a name you're ok with, for our icon theme in xub ?
<DanRabbit> sounds good
<kwwii> andreasn: yes, please do
<kwwii> it got lost amongst all my other stuff
<kwwii> andreasn: thanks for reminding me
<dashua> Monochrome bluetooth icon is hot
<andreasn> kwwii, kwwii at canonical dot com?
<DanRabbit> SiDi`Laptop:SiDi`Laptop: sorry I haven't gotten to your list yet :/
<SiDi`Laptop> DanRabbit, its ok ;)
<SiDi`Laptop> there's no emergency for now
<SiDi`Laptop> and if there is i will torture knome so he goes through that list :p
<DanRabbit> haha
<knome> ;Ã
<kwwii> andreasn: yeah, or ubuntu dot com
<mrmcq2u_> hmmm.... the stones wallpaper seems to flow better when the brown xsplash like gdm background is used. Less contast than the brown to orange
<kwwii> true
<andreasn> sent!
<mac_v> mrmcq2u_: but i find the present default wallpaper giving out a very cheerful vibe :)
<mac_v> lets change the gdm ;p
<mac_v> mat will kill me
<mrmcq2u_> Well the gdm uses the orange atm but I like the one with the xsplash minus ubuntu logo+throbber bg with the new gdm gtk theme.
<mrmcq2u_> and with the stones bg it transitions really really smoothly
<DanRabbit> the orange GDM is really ugly :(
<kwwii> ture
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> true
<kwwii> and lol
<DanRabbit> The black/brown one is very sexy :)
<kwwii> time for sleep
<DanRabbit> night kwwii
<psyke83> kwwii: maybe I'm crazy, but the brown scrollbar seems a lot more comfortable to me with the combination of the new background colour and the new metacity. Maybe they will decide to keep it if they see the latest version of the themes?
<kwwii> no more major changes after beta, ok?
<kwwii> psyke83: I doubt it
<psyke83> kwwii: ok :)
<kwwii> they really want it to be darker grey
<psyke83> kwwii: that's fine, so that's your job :)
<psyke83> nite nite
<kwwii> :)
<kwwii> see you soon
<psyke83> if you need help, throw me an e-mail anytime
<mrmcq2u_> night
<kwwii> willdo
<kwwii> will do
<DanRabbit> psyke83, where can I get the latest rev for the new GTK theme?
<psyke83> DanRabbit: from my thread on the Ubuntu forums. Ken's going to finish the rest, but this is what we have so far: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8021558&postcount=114
<DanRabbit> awesome, thanks ;)
<psyke83> np ;)
<mac_v> DanRabbit: sue psyke83 for copyright infringement ;p
<DanRabbit> HAHA, I think he was actually first?
<psyke83> first with what?
<DanRabbit> Also, isn't it like fate that the new GTK and icons are both called Humanity?
<psyke83> ah right, haha
<psyke83> I wasn't aware of the Humanity icons when I named the gtk theme, sorry ;)
<mac_v> psyke83: so then ...sue DanRabbit  for copyright infringement
<mac_v> ;p
<DanRabbit> ;)
<psyke83> it was just a temporary name to signify it was unofficial, but Ken ended up using the theme as official
<mac_v> oh.! so human -> humanity?
<psyke83> I'll confer with my lawyers first, I need to know your assets and debts first :P
<DanRabbit> hmm
<DanRabbit> it's a little pink ;)
<psyke83> mac_v: well, look at the first post of the thread - the theme with the orange scrollbars etc was in karmic officially. Only in the past few days did Ken tell me that the Canonical folks wanted dark brown, so I adjusted the theme, and he took that
<mac_v> psyke83: DanRabbit just sold one kidney... you can still have the other one ;)
<DanRabbit> lol
<DanRabbit> what?
<psyke83> DanRabbit: Ken's picking the background colour, that's just his current favourite at the moment
<DanRabbit> I see
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-29
<bodhi_zazen> Is there a guide somewhere for 9.10 ?
<bodhi_zazen> I have been able to make a custom grub2 boot splash and a custom xsplash theme
<bodhi_zazen> how does one set a theme for GDM ?
<knome> 'sudo gdmsetup'
<bodhi_zazen> in 9.10 gdmsetup no longer allows one to select a theme
<knome> no idea then
<bodhi_zazen> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=553250
<ubottu> Gnome bug 553250 in general "Where did gdmsetup go?" [Minor,Resolved: duplicate]
<bodhi_zazen> It is a gnome thing really =)
<bodhi_zazen> I see these nice GMD themes on the incoming art work pages and wanted to try them, give some feedback, do some customizations =)
<knome> it's quite late already for the feedback
<bodhi_zazen> Better late then never =)
<krabador> it's closed the job for karmic artwork?
<mac_v> kwwii: there seems to be a bug in the Human theme > http://imagebin.ca/view/p1eyOA.html , notice the text "Empty trash"
<mat_t> Morning all!
<jonian_g> good morning mat
<darkmatter> rawr
<kwwii> hi mat_t
<mat_t> hey kwwii
<kwwii> mac_v: hrm, in my latest version that is fixed
<mac_v> kwwii: hey , caught you in time ;)
<mac_v> lool wants to talk to you
<mac_v> kwwii: ^
<mac_v> kwwii: seems ivanka does not know you have tested the humanity branch and the latest updates
<kwwii> mac_v: cool, thanks
<mac_v> btw , humanity dark is here > https://code.launchpad.net/humanitydark
<mac_v> be back in a few...
<kwwii> killer :)
<darkmatter> it would be nice if someone fixed theme specs and the panel so you could just have it switch between light/dark icons automagically without having to do stupid things like replicate work... or even better, just recolor them on the fly
<jonian_g> kwwii: hi, I have created the missing sizes of the icons for login screen. How do they get in the login theme?
<kwwii> jonian_g: they need to go in the humanity theme
<kwwii> so talk to mac_v or DanRabbit
<jonian_g> kwwii: they have gone already, I uploaded them 2 days ago in bzr
<kwwii> ?
<kwwii> ahh, they are already in bzr? which icons are you talking about, exact
<kwwii> ly?
<jonian_g> computer 64px, session 16px, keyboard 16px
<kwwii> jonian_g: erm, mat_t just put in new icons for those, iirc
<kwwii> last night
<mat_t> jonian_g, kwwii: computer icon should be removed
<jonian_g> kwwii: in case you don't know, I'm a developer of humanity icons from day 1
<mat_t> users probably realise they're loggin in to the computer ;)
<kwwii> jonian_g: cool, hi...nice to meet you
<kwwii> mat_t: tell cody that
<jonian_g> nice too meet you too
<darkmatter> ya should create a custom add-on to the them. add a 'gdm-' prefix to some custom monochrome icons 'for the panel applets etc in gdm) anf have the gdm hackers change the name of the icons uses in the sources to match ) would look more like the initial mockups that way ;)
<mat_t> jonian_g: good to meet you. Great work!
<jonian_g> thanks mat_t. nice to meet you
<kwwii> btw, I just saw an email about OOo icons...does humanity have OOo icons? karmic is still using the human theme versions
<jonian_g> kwwii: it has, I made the similar to the human ones
<darkmatter> mat_t: you mean above the user list? I actually have a suggestion there. create gdm-logo.png (white ubuntu logo like in xsplash) and change the name call in the login window .glade from computer to gdm-logo
<darkmatter> would look quite sharp
<jonian_g> kwwii: if you are talking about a OOo theme, it doesn't
<mac_v> re
<mac_v> mat_t: hi.. what about the power status icons?
<mac_v> for gdm
<kwwii> jonian_g: right, hrm...what to do now
 * kwwii takes a break
<mat_t> mac_v: it should not be present in gdm
<mat_t> mac_v: discussing that on ubuntu-desktop atm
<mac_v> mat_t: but they would be different from the icons you'v made
<mac_v> oh ok
<mat_t> kwwii: are we ready to deploy the new theme?
<mat_t> kwwii: on your side it's done, isn't it?
<mat_t> kwwii: ?
<kwwii> mat_t: the gdm theme?
<kwwii> mat_t: if you mean gdm, yes...it has been done for over a week
<mat_t> kwwii: so is Cody blocking it?
<kwwii> mat_t: dbarth told me he would take care of it last week...if it is still not done you should talk to him
<kwwii> yesterday he said he would talk to cody about it
<mat_t> ok
<mat_t> thx kwwii
<mat_t> are you guys getting correct icons for notification bubbles?
<mat_t> mac_v: ^
<mat_t> power-related especially
<mac_v> mat_t: no.. the notify-osd icons are not being placed in /usr/share/notify-osd/
<mac_v> mat_t: they need to be saved there , i think this only works for fresh intasls , pitti might know more about thi
<mac_v> installs*
<mat_t> can you please file bugs accordingly?
<mat_t> ok
<mat_t> thx
<mac_v> mat_t: he is the one who fixed it... you might wanna check with him , this might be a known issue
<mat_t> mac_v: pitti doesn't know about it
<mac_v> oh..
<darkmatter> so I assume you worked around gdm using the distro default gtk/background settings from the vendor keys by giving it it's own set of keys? (I haven't had a chance to dig through the changelogs yet ;o)
<psyke83> hi
<mac_v> kwwii: hmm... the notify-osd icons hwave 2 different icons > the battery empty and the battery low... these two icons are horizontal while the rest are vertical
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, just saw your other comment...needs to be fixed then
<mac_v> kwwii: do you want me to send another two icons? or do you have them?
<kwwii> mac_v: do you know which ones you want to use there?
<mac_v> hm , the battery low could just be a symlink
<kwwii> yes
<mac_v> kwwii: empty can also be a symlink to the notification-battery-000
<mac_v> low to *-020
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, I think we should use 000 and 020
<kwwii> simple links
<kwwii> mac_v: in the end, pitti will have to hear about this, because iirc he has a bzr repo in ubuntu-desktop which I cannot change
<mac_v> kwwii: you can mention it right? or do you want me to talk to him?
<kwwii> psyke83: hey, after much discussion with the team, the metacity theme is now too light (ie the window decoration is lighter than the selection color)
<kwwii> mac_v: I can take care of it, or you can do it...however you want :)
<psyke83> kwwii: ok, so do you want me to darken it?
<kwwii> psyke83: also, that made the -clearlooks version look amazingly freaky
<kwwii> psyke83: I think I have a version ready...getting so late now that we really need to be finished
<psyke83> kwwii: let me know how I can help... if you send me the updated metacity, I'll fix the clearlooks theme
<psyke83> the human and -clearlooks themes used very light selection colours, and it was insisted that the metacity stay the dark brown. Now that we have a dark selection colour for human, clearlooks's light selection messes things up. It's not too hard to fix in the theme, I just didn't do it since the metacity wasn't finished/confirmed
<psyke83> we could also do something lazy - use the new colours in human-clearlooks
<psyke83> kwwii: imho, the "lazy" option is better, the clearlooks version also looks nice with the new colour scheme (well, I'm using an outdated bg colour, I assume you've chosen better)
<kwwii> psyke83: you might be right...let me think about it a second
<kwwii> psyke83: for now, I think I will just use the older metacity theme, the darker one, which doesn't mess it up...it is after beta freeze so I don't think we can get that many changes in
<kwwii> I will make the button highlights a bit darker and then submit the package for upload
<kwwii> I have to work on the website before beta as well
<psyke83> kwwii: that's disappointing :(. The older metacity seems far too dark, imho. That version was designed for a very light orange selection colour
<psyke83> imho, Clearlooks looks better: http://img121.imageshack.us/i/humanclearlooksnewcolou.png/
<psyke83> all that's changed is the colour
<psyke83> oops, wrong screen
<psyke83> one sec
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah, I know...I am running around in circles
<kwwii> like a chicken with it's head cut off
<psyke83> kwwii: just take a look: http://img121.imageshack.us/i/humanclearlooksnewcolouq.png/
<psyke83> keeping human and -clearlooks consistent helps with branding, too :P. There's your excuse ;)
<mac_v> psyke83: window bg is too much of a shade of pink ;p
<psyke83> mac_v: blame the headless chicken ;)
<mac_v> lol!
<mac_v> psyke83: meh ... the chicken gave me human login theme , so thats what i'll me modifying and using ;p
<mac_v> s/me/be
<psyke83> mac_v: cool. Now all you need to do is enable the compiz negative plugin, and you'll be using a proper theme ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<kwwii> I have a new nickname, it seems
<mac_v> ;)
<psyke83> kwwii: just say the word and I can modify the metacity to darken the gradients. We can re-implant that head if we work fast... :P
<kwwii> psyke83: now that I have to do the beta banner for the website, I think I am going to pretty much leave things as they are
<psyke83> alright
<mac_v> kwwii: what happened regarding the humanity and humanity-dark?
<kwwii> mac_v: nothing so far, have to remind them again
<mat_t> kwwii: did you have any luck with the scrollbar colors?
<kwwii> mat_t: yepp, they are now a bit darker grey than the ui bg color
<kwwii> just trying to upload them to lp but something seems strange
<kwwii> ahhhh, shit
<kwwii> deiverged branches
<kwwii> diverged
<kwwii> like I need this crap
<kwwii> zniavre: dude, remind me again of your full name
<zniavre> bonjour
<kwwii> bonjour
<zniavre> real name ?
<kwwii> and email as well
<kwwii> for the AUTHORS file, etc
<zniavre> zniavre     at zniavre2048@gmail.com
<kwwii> cool, thanks...I almost forgot to add it again ;)
<zniavre> (without Maj cause someone on launchpad take it , im a bit annoyed by the way )
<mat_t> kwwii: ok, cool!
<kwwii> mac_v: can you get the notification icons and make those links?
<kwwii> mac_v: also, we need to make sure that humanity does get updated by asking again and again until they listen
<mac_v> kwwii: i didnt understand bout notify-osd...make the links where?
<mac_v> kwwii: if you insist with lool we can push humanity updates today itself
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, he was in a meeting last time I told him
<kwwii> mac_v: essentially, we just need to add a .links file in the debian dir
<kwwii> human icon theme has one, for reference
 * mac_v checks
<mac_v> kwwii: not sure , whats needs to be done :( ... i'll ping pitti again..
<kwwii> mac_v: don't worry about it, I can take care of it...once I find the repo with the icons
<kwwii> mac_v: oops, wrong channel...the notify-osd-icons-ubuntu package now has links
<mac_v> kwwii: where can i check that? link pls :)
<mac_v> argh! lp... is killing me today
<kwwii> bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/notify-osd/notify-osd-icons-ubuntu
<mac_v> thanks
<mac_v> kwwii: the icons will now be installed  in /usr/share/notify-osd/ folder or /usr/share/notify-osd-icons-ubuntu folder?
<kwwii> mac_v: shit, good point
<kwwii> good thing I asked you to check it
<mac_v> also the location is > /usr/share/notify-osd/icons/gnome/scalable/status
<mac_v> kwwii: ^
<kwwii> yeah, just saw that when I built it locally
<mac_v> :)
<kwwii> mac_v: ok, updated it...testing it now
<kwwii> mac_v: do you know if there is an open bug about this?
<kwwii> the latest bzr fixes it, btw
<mac_v> kwwii: i dont think there is a bug... unless mat_t filed one ;)
<mac_v> i just noticed the icons were different when i was checking the folder
<mat_t> kwwii: I haven't filed a bug
<mat_t> kwwii: will it help if I do?
<kwwii> mat_t: let me see if pitti will push it through without one first
<mat_t> ok
<kwwii> mac_v: humanitydark is the name corret?
<mac_v> kwwii:  Humanity-Dark
<mac_v> you asked for the theme name right? of the lp name
<kwwii> mac_v: and that has all the humanity icons in it, or just the lighter versions for dark themes
<kwwii> mac_v: yes, that is what I wanted to know
<kwwii> trying to sort things out now
<mac_v> kwwii: only the lighter verions + the scalable icons of the monochrome icons for use in the apps
<mac_v> scalable color icons*
<kwwii> mac_v: so Humanity-Dark needs to go on top of Humanity, right?
<mac_v> kwwii: i didnt understand 'on top'? did you mean inherits? if so yes
<kwwii> I mean that it needs to be the icon theme which is set, and it should have humanity in it's inhereits
<kwwii> or else it will not use those icons first
<mac_v> yes
<mac_v> kwwii: for UNR its the theme ot be set
<mac_v> to*
<kwwii> right
<kwwii> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/humanity-icon-theme/+bug/430277
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430277 in unr-meta "random icons are colorful while some other notification-area icons are dark" [High,Invalid]
<kwwii> check the last comment
<mac_v> correct :)
 * kwwii heads out for dinner, be back later
<jessai> hi!
<thorwil> hello jessai
<jessai> im studying digital art and i wanna make some app using web services but i dont now what exactly, any suggestion?
<thorwil> jessai: what do you mean with web services?
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<jessai> for example a mashup of jamendo and flickr copy left ;), you are viewing pictures and listening music from jamendo
<mrmcq2u_> Thought you guys might be interested in this article as its about getting the gnome clock to match the humanity notification area icons -> http://d0od.blogspot.com/2009/09/karmic-tray-icons-match.html
<MadsRH> mrmcq2u_ -> Wow, that looks fantastic! It would be awesome if the developers added this tweak by default
<thorwil> jessai: we recently used flickr for collecting and selecting wallpapers for the next ubuntu version. there are some issues on might be able to address with a service that interfaces with flickr
<knome> thorwil, compfight.com
<knome> thorwil, if you mean the hardness of searching cc-licensed images
<thorwil> jessai: i have to concentrate on something now, maybe we can talk another day. or ask kwwii about it
<thorwil> knome: that's part of the isue
<knome> thorwil, that site fixes it completely :)
<thorwil> knome: can it search by CC criteria within a group pool?
<knome> no, i don't think so, unless you search for tags or something. might work with trying to search with the group name
<MarkDude> Does anyone know of a good graphic for karmic Koala - poster worthy?
<kwwii> MarkDude: the meditating koala
<MarkDude> thank you - I will now be able to make a decent poster for us in California for the karmic release
<kwwii> cool, show it to the list or this channel when you're done
<kwwii> and don't forget to put it on the wiki so that others can use it as well ;)
<mrmcq2u_> kwwii - did u contact diegostocco yet? :D
<jessai> thorwil: thk!! and good luck in what you are doing =)
<mrmcq2u_> Tell him I will send him some cookies :D
<kwwii> mrmcq2u_: shoot, nope...I have been quite busy these last days ;)
<kwwii> I am now working evenings to get all the work done
<mrmcq2u_> understandable
<mrmcq2u_> why is the fade to desktop disabled for login?
<mrmcq2u_> or fading wallpaper i should say
<kwwii> I was not aware that it was disabled
<kwwii> is it something you can turn on/off via some switch?
<mrmcq2u_> It was enabled in jaunty in the earlier alpha builds and then I remember seeing in a changelog someplace that it was being temporarily disabled for login, you will probably notice it is still enabled for logging out and back in.
<jonian_g> hi kwwii
<kwwii> hi jonian_g
<jonian_g> kwwii: I want to ask you if I can fix the emblems for ubuntu one. They have a gap in the middle!
<kwwii> jonian_g: are they already in the Humanity theme package?
<jonian_g> I don think so, they were uploaded some hours ago in bzr
<jonian_g> edit: 1 hour ago
<jonian_g> they were given to us by U1 team
<kwwii> jonian_g: then feel free to update them
<jonian_g> thanks
<kwwii> they need to go in the theme, if necessary asap
<kwwii> we'll be uploading the final changes to the theme on Thursday
<kwwii> it is already too late to get things in the Beta though
<jonian_g> I already fixed hem, I just need to upload them
<jonian_g> but first I needed confirmation
<kwwii> cool, feel free to go ahead
<kwwii> in any case, no matter whether you will make the cut or not, you should upload them so they don't get lost
<kwwii> the next time things get uploaded they will be taken care of
<kwwii> in this case, there is still time
<jonian_g> ok
<kwwii> http://sinecera.de/9.10-rc-banner2b.png   <- ideas?
<kwwii> ok, the outer white line is too light
<SiDi> kwwii: are you brainstorming with yourself on irc ? :D
<SiDi> yeah, its too bright, though
<SiDi> is that the default wallpaper for 9.10 behind ?
<SiDi> i find the orange on the top right corner quite aggressive
<kwwii> SiDi: hehe, it is the only intelligent conversation I get :p
<kwwii> (my mom always said that)
<kwwii> anyway
<kwwii> nope, that is a different bg
<kwwii> it will end up on the top of ubuntu.com
<kwwii> so it needs to stand out a bit
<SiDi> kwwii: what about desaturating the "coming soon" a little ?
<kwwii> ahh, in the screenshot, that is the final walllpaper, yes
<kwwii> SiDi: yeah, that is a good suggestion
<knome> kwwii, what about using the "old style" numerals for the version number?
<kwwii> I expected that to be a problem, perhaps
<knome> hmm?
<kwwii> VIIII X ?
<knome> nooo
<kwwii> lol
<kwwii> IX X
<kwwii> sorry
<psyke83> kwwii: the scrollbar bug has a patch on the bug report
<kwwii> my roman is a bit rusty
<knome> no, not those either :P
<knome> kwwii, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/Numerals
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah, I noticed that today...unfortunately I think it is too late for that
<DanRabbit> kwwii: it's kind of hard to read the text towards the right side. It's just a little too bright
<kwwii> knome: hrm, if I don't use the font for the other part, not sure if it is a good idea to mix them
<psyke83> kwwii: yes, I understand, but will there be no window to introduce a change to the theme after the beta?
<psyke83> the grey scrollbars would look nicer with the trough as well
<kwwii> yeah, without the trough it doesn't look nearly as nice
<kwwii> DanRabbit: thanks...I was afraid of that too
<DanRabbit> ;)
<psyke83> kwwii: what concerns me is that if the theme update is pushed with the trough set back to 0, there'll be no pressure to fix the bug in gtk/firefox
<kwwii> psyke83: well, we have to apply pressure then
<kwwii> :)
<kwwii> I'll talk to pitti and seb tomorrow about it
<kwwii> maybe I should just assign that bug to seb
<psyke83> I'm going to try the patch that was submitted
<kwwii> yeah, I wonder if it even works :p
<kwwii> proving I don't use my mac anymore...I forgot where to insert a DVD :p
<psyke83> it looks fairly innocuous, anyway
<kwwii> I tried to use photoshop today and was baffled
<psyke83> kwwii: would there be any point in making a bug upstream, or would seb handle it faster on launchpad? He's active on the upstream tracker as well
<kwwii> psyke83: upstream would be good as well, but slower
<kwwii> psyke83: do you have a link to the bug handy?
<psyke83> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/422511
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 422511 in human-theme "problem with new scrollbar in Human theme - GtkRange::trough-border set to 2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<psyke83> kwwii: bug #327863 is the firefox issue, and it's just been assigned
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 327863 in xulrunner-1.9.1 "non-zero GtkRange::trough-border value produces strange boxes in Firefox" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/327863
<kwwii> ouch, I just asked seb ;)
<kwwii> I bet he hates me by now :p
<psyke83> hehe
<kwwii> I feel so dirty asking for changes in karmic now
<psyke83> kwwii: these are changes that matter :P
<kwwii> lol, and he agrees!
<psyke83> the thing that people complain about is the theme ;)
<psyke83> I don't believe it :P
<kwwii> we need to assign it to ubuntu-main-sponsors
<psyke83> we just don't understand his sarcastic tone on irc
<kwwii> he's french, it's part of the culture
<kwwii> :D
<kwwii> he still calls me Mr. KDE-Guy
<psyke83> kwwii: I'll post on the bug with an attachment showing the difference without and with trough, and explain that's why we need the bug fixed in time for final, ok?
<kwwii> perfect
<kwwii> psyke83: so I can/should assign the LibGTK part of this to ubuntu-main-sponsors
<psyke83> ok
<kwwii> as the patch is against gtk, or?
<psyke83> yes
<kwwii> cool
<psyke83> kwwii: on the phone to my dad, just a min
<psyke83> it's definitely against gtk (maybe libgtk2.0-0)
<kwwii> cool
<kwwii> mrmcq2u_: here is what was accomplished before it fell apart:  http://www.diegostocco.com/Ubuntu/DS_UBU_LIN_LOT112108.zip
<psyke83> kwwii: the firefox issue is marked fix released
<kwwii> ???
<kwwii> really?
<psyke83> yep
<kwwii> that might be because I changed the trough border to 0 though
<psyke83> kwwii: I don't think so
<kwwii> that would be great, if true
<psyke83> kwwii: that bug relates to the text boxes having a trough, not the fact that you can't click at the edge of the screen for the scrollbar
<kwwii> ahhhh
<psyke83> I'll see if I can find another bug dealing with it
<kwwii> excellent, thanks
<psyke83> I'm compiling the gtk with the patch as well, just to make sure it works as advertised :P
<psyke83> kwwii: asac un-assigned the ubuntu-main-sponsors, but changed to medium priority... not sure if that's a problem
<kwwii> did he say why?
<kwwii> psyke83: good idea to test it first though :)
<psyke83> kwwii: he's asking for confirmation from Cody
<kwwii> wtf? he works on network manager
<kwwii> I've asked him directly, no worries
<kwwii> I have the rights to change anything in lp...no worries
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> "Cody, could you check the patch attached and let me know?"
<kwwii> I guess that means he is looking into it, so it isn't that bad
<kwwii> and in any case he only lives about 2 hours away...I'll drive to his house and make him include it
<kwwii> :p
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-09-30
<psyke83> :P
<psyke83> kwwii: I'm chatting to asac, asking him if he needs a new bug filed in the event that firefox still has problems, or if it's ok to attach the issue to the same bug report and assign to firefox
<kwwii> cool
<psyke83> kwwii: chatting to micahg now, he's already prepared testing packages for the text box fix
<kwwii> killer :)
<kwwii> I am heading off to bed soon
<psyke83> kwwii: ok, I'll stay up a while and see what I can find out ;)
<kwwii> cool, catch you tomorrow
<dashua> kwwii, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26069/screenshot_1_KlUCm6.png
<dashua> Needs some work but a start for metacity
<dashua> bzr branch lp:~dashua/human-theme/humantheme
<dashua> I'll work on it more tomorrow
<YokoZar> I can't seem to find a 32x32 size folder icon for the Human theme -- is this simply missing?
<YokoZar> That sounds like a big oversight since 32x32 is what's actually shown in the Places menu
<YokoZar> (needed for the winefolder icon at http://www.airwebreathe.org.uk/wine-icon/ )
<darkmatter> actually the gnome menus use 24x24 pixel icons by default. :)
<YokoZar> darkmatter: ahh well that at least makes some sense.  Where is 32x32 seen?
<darkmatter> mostly in the control center iirc (the 32x32 sizes in the spec started in suse, as the main-menu, app browser, and control center use them, and 48 renders horribly at that size). initially we had 16,22,24, and scalable. now we're 'evolving' to 16,22,24,32,48, and 256 withing icon-themes
<darkmatter> basically scalable was a bunch of overrated hype :P
<YokoZar> darkmatter: I guess in theory scalable was meant for things that grow in size dynamically (eg UNR hovering) but it turned out to be way too slow
<darkmatter> aye
<YokoZar> interesting casualty of this was Gnometris (it was up until now using a .svg render for every brick, making the game unplayably slow after the screen got about 1/4 filled)
<darkmatter> brb... haven't caffeinated myself today. and it's now 8:47 pm (or 20:47 for the 'whats pm?' crowd).. I REAAALLLY need a fix
<kwwii> good morning
<knome> morning kwwii :)
<kwwii> hi knome
<knome> how are things coming up?
<kwwii> busy, busy...but coming along well
<knome> hehe, great :)
<knome> we did some work on the "pulse"/animated countdown banner yesterday
<kwwii> cool
<knome> http://markus.alshain.fi/markus/deve/slider/slider03.html -> current state
<mat_t> Morning all!
<mat_t> mac_v: Question re "ad-hoc" icon
<knome> morning mat_t
<mat_t> mac_v: morning knome :)
<mat_t> mac_v: if the fix is released, what is the fix?
<mac_v> evening mat_t ;)
<mat_t> :)
<mac_v> mat_t: that is the icon for a device , if we change it further , it would not be usable in the apps
<mat_t> ok, but it's still a bug
<mat_t> the icon in the menu is misleading
<mat_t> I'm reopening it
<mac_v> yes , bug in nm , not in humanity , because there is not label yet to create
<mac_v> mat_t: ^
<mac_v> there is no label*
<mat_t> ok
<mat_t> in that case it's invalid in Humanity
<mac_v> even better :)
<bersace_nerim> Hi everyone !
<bersace_nerim> kwwii, big thumb up for Ubuntu artwork
<bersace_nerim> Amazing job !
<kwwii> bersace_nerim: thnx, I didn't do it alone though ;) The teamwork has been gret
<kwwii> great
<bersace_nerim> good to see the work done by the team :)
<bersace_nerim> i'm so glad that finally, Ubuntu get icons theme that blend well with Tango !
<bersace_nerim> :)
<kwwii> lol, that is the worst part about them, if you ask me
<darkmatter> especially when you consider the tango style wasn't a 'by choice' adoption. it was 'pester you until you cave in'
<andreasn> I have said I think it's better, but I'm sorry if I made someone felt me (and perhaps lapo too) have been pestering anyone
<SiDi> Are you speaking about the email in ayatana about gnome hig & tango ?
<andreasn> but I can't recall mentioning anything about for quite a while now, I shut up and draw
<bersace_nerim> kwwii, they blend far better with Tango than Human !
<mat_t> mac_v: the lock icon is a lot better!
<mat_t> mac_v: it still overlaps with some icons though (when you have full connection)
<mac_v> mat_t: could you show me a screenshot? so that i could adjust it accordingly?
<mat_t> sure
<mat_t> I'll file a bug
<mat_t> mac_v: #439261
<mac_v> Bug #439261
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439261 in humanity-icon-theme "Wireless connection icon in the network menu overlaps with the lock icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439261
<mac_v> mat_t: how does a broken shield work? for the third icon of a security risk with adhoc
<mat_t> mac_v: that could work, too. I don't think it's worth introducing yet another metaphor for security
<mat_t> mac_v: we don't really use shields anywhere, do we?
<mac_v> mat_t: we used to , use it but now we dont
<mat_t> mac_v: I think shield would work for Windows users, but that would have to be a system-wide decision
<mat_t> mac_v: that's why I think we should try the lock first
<mac_v> mat_t: nm applet also had a shield , displayed for secure connections , until the recent update... only now it is used as an overlay icon
<mac_v> the lock icon is now for secure , it has now become an overlay icon
<mac_v> previously , it was simply a shield next to the wireless signal
<mat_t> mac_v: I see. We can definitely try both and see which works better visually.
<mac_v> mat_t: the overlay problem has been fixed a few days ago , i believe, could you download the theme again and test it?
<mac_v> lol! not few days ago , i think yesterday
<rolo-svk> hello everyone
<rolo-svk> im here for a little help
<rolo-svk> a i made an ubuntu-tux logo and would like to sned it to community if anyone is interested
<rolo-svk> but so far i couldnt find to whom i can send it
<knome> rolo-svk, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Karmic/
<mat_t> mac_v: ok :)
<rolo-svk> thnx knome, but a cannot find an adrres to send to :(
<rolo-svk> address
<knome> rolo-svk, you have to register, then create a new subpage
<knome> and you can then add attachments
<rolo-svk> knome: ah... thnx, i didnt know
<rolo-svk> so im going to... ;)
<rolo-svk> thnx again
<knome> no problem
<psyke83> kwwii: I think we should set the trough back to 2. There's three related bugs. One: clicking doesn't grab the scrollbar - proposed fix is available. Two: Firefox's text boxes on websites render the trough incorrectly - fix released. Three: You can't edge-click on the scrollbar (to jump page or grab the scrollbar) - bug filed upstream and on Launchpad
<psyke83> the third bug is being looked at
<psyke83> *Third bug, I meant to say, only applies to Firefox
<kwwii> psyke83: yes, I am goign to look into making it larger again....
<kwwii> psyke83: also, I have a bug about the selection of buttons
<kwwii> it seems that people are mistaking the selected button for already clicked
<psyke83> kwwii: got a bug reference? You mean a toggled button such as togglebutton1 in the widget factory?
<kwwii> yepp
<kwwii> it looks like that, but is a normal button
<kwwii> seb mentioned it yesterday, let me check if he made a bug
<psyke83> that's this line, in the default style property:
<psyke83> 	bg[ACTIVE]        = shade (0.88, @bg_color)
<kwwii> psyke83: yeah...I wanted to ask you for ideas to change it before doing anything
<kwwii> god forbid, I am showing respect - must be ill :p
<psyke83> :P
<psyke83> was it a problem when the theme was lighter?
<kwwii> nope
<kwwii> at least, I never noticed it and nobody ever menitoned it
<kwwii> it is noticeable on confirmation dialogs...the button looks like it is already clicked although it is not
<psyke83> kwwii: http://img8.imageshack.us/i/humanityv08.png/
<psyke83> that looks ok?
<psyke83> kwwii: hmm, that's a  different issue entirely
<psyke83> I think you're thinking of the pre-chosen buttons, not pressed buttons
<kwwii> yes, the pre-chosen buttons look like they are pressed ;)
<psyke83> e.g., Terminal Server Client
<psyke83> ah ok, that's a different fix
<psyke83> it looks dark because they used to prelight to a nice light orange, but since we have the dark selection colour, it's darker
<psyke83> what effect would you like for these pre-chosen buttons?
<kwwii> yeah
<kwwii> I think tha ta simple slight orange line around it would be nice
<kwwii> ;)
<mat_t> mac_v: there's something horribly wrong with the wireless icons now...
<kwwii> or it could be lighter than the bgNormal
<kwwii> visually, it just has to slightly give you the impression that you should click it
<mac_v> mat_t: asac wanted wwan to be different from the wireless icon
<mac_v> it would look different... it is too bad ?
<mat_t> ok, asac is not making decisions like that
<mat_t> it just looks bad, we have 2 different icons + one of them still overlaps with the lock...
<kwwii> I am really glad I finished up all my work on the human network manager icons before we threw them away
<mat_t> kwwii: ;)
<kwwii> mat_t: btw, how hard would it be to make an svg version of the xsplash in your opinion?
<mac_v> mat_t: the lock definately wont overlap
<mac_v> screenshot pls
<mac_v> no need another bug ;p
<mat_t> kwwii: I guess quite hard, you probably have more experience with svgs
<kwwii> mat_t: it would save a) space on the CD and b) be scalable without banding
<mat_t> mac_v: ok, one sec
<mat_t> kwwii: yes, ted suggested that
<kwwii> mat_t: I started to make one based on the pixmaps, but wanted to understand how it is put together
<mat_t> kwwii: you're welcome to have a go, I don't really have time
<kwwii> mat_t: I currently have gradient from warm-dark-red to black in the bg and a light from above kinda lighting a stage
<mat_t> kwwii: I'll send you the psd
<kwwii> mat_t: hehe, I only wanted your input on it
<mat_t> :)
<kwwii> mat_t: that would be *perfect*
<psyke83> kwwii: sending gtkrc, want me to set trough to 2?
<kwwii> psyke83: sure, it'll save me a ms
<kwwii> thanks!
<mat_t> kwwii: it may not be trivial, looking at the psd ;)
<kwwii> mat_t: yeah, that is what I thought...I'm going to see what I can come up with. If it takes too long I'll give up ;)
<kwwii> I have learned to appreciate the complexity of your psd files :D
<psyke83> kwwii: sent, it's now the same as the focus colour (a light orangey shade :P)
<kwwii> psyke83: excellent, thanks
<psyke83> no prob
<psyke83> now all I have left to do is to convince you to use the new metacity ;)
<kwwii> :D
<kwwii> psyke83: how about this, we'll make screenshots and I will suggest it to the rest of the design team, see what they say
<psyke83> kwwii: I can do that. I'll darken the colours, since that was their argument against it. If you can suggest anything else, let me know
<psyke83> let me play with it, though, don't worry too much, since you've lots of other things to do
<kwwii> psyke83: cool...my wife is on a business trip to I'm home alone with my son...going to be offline from about 17:00 CET until he goes to bed at 21:00
<kwwii> s/to/so
<psyke83> kwwii: sure. I'll modify the metacity and make a few proposals, take screenshots of each one, and then e-mail the whole thing to you
<kwwii> killer, thanks
<mat_t> kwwii: file is massive
<mat_t> over 100  MB
<kwwii> mat_t: LOL
<kwwii> maybe in ubuntuone? :D
<mat_t> heh
<mat_t> maybe
<mat_t> if that works, I'll be more than impressed
<mat_t> I'll try that later - busy with other stuff atm
<andreasn> hm, thunderbird trunk looks broken using the new default ubuntu theme
<kwwii> andreasn: screen?
<kwwii> seems to work ok, here on my updated jaunty system
<kwwii> let me check it on karmic
<andreasn> not-super-broken I have to add
<andreasn> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/184285/tb-ubuntu.png
<andreasn> it's just that the tab looks a bit odd
<andreasn> and I guess that's partly my fault, I think I expected the tab color and main window color to always be pretty much the same tint
<andreasn> not much any of us can do about it either :/
<psyke83> andreasn: yes... in the past the Murrine engine drew an orange strip on the active tab, but that's gone now... so we need to do other things to differentiate active tabs from inactive
<andreasn> I see, yeah, I don't have any good solution to this problem
<andreasn> I can't really use the tab of the color to the rest of the window either
<andreasn> so things will look odd to a majority of the Linux TB users, but they are a tough bunch that are used to things looking a bit odd in general, so it might be ok anyway
<kwwii> luckily, TB is not installed by default ;)
<andreasn> yeah, and because of that I don't really expect you guys to "visually support it", so to say
<kwwii> in this case, there is little we could do to fix it...otherwise tabs in nautilus, etc. get lost
<kwwii> FF, TB and OOo
<kwwii> my artwork enemies ;)
<andreasn> yeah :(
<andreasn> I've done a couple of trick to try to pick up as much as the desktop configuration can give TB though
<andreasn> so apart from the tab-issue, it blends in pretty well
<andreasn> I mean, before, they looked like winxp tabs
<kwwii> omg
<kwwii> we did that on purpose :D
<andreasn> no, I mean, it didn't pick up the native tab appearance before
<andreasn> but used a pixmap
<kwwii> yeah, I was just kidding ;)
 * kwwii heads out to the store and butcher...bbl
<andreasn> mac_v, do you still want/need my opinion on https://bugs.launchpad.net/humanity/+bug/438148 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 438148 in humanity ""Network disconnected" indicator in the panel is hard to recognize" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<andreasn> or did you resolve it?
<mac_v> andreasn: IMO , i dont want to add the 'x'...  this is the same behavior in cellphones... so I dont think it is confusing... ;) ... havent changed it yet ... while the network errors will have the red colors... but if you feel otherwise do comment :)
<andreasn> if I recall correctly, I think we use the [x] symbol for error-in-bluetooth, disabled-sound and probably some other places as well
<mac_v> andreasn: not anywhere in humanity
<andreasn> ah, yes
<mac_v> x is only used for errors , in humanity
<mac_v> so this is consistent in humanity
<andreasn> right, so if you have a symbol-language where x is always error, it might be good to stick with that
<andreasn> and while no-network severely reduces the usage of a ubuntu installation, I guess it's not a error
 * mac_v nods
<psyke83> kwwii: sent the proposal to your mail, can you forward it to who needs to see it?
<kwwii> psyke83: yes, I will do that
<kwwii> psyke83: although they are quite busy trying to make a new default wallpaper
<kwwii> apparently today was a fun day to be in the office :D
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<kwwii> hi FLOZz
<FLOZz> hi kwwii
<knome> kwwii, o.O
<psyke83> back
<psyke83> kwwii: thanks ;). I'm doing my best to keep you all busy and stressed ;)
<kwwii> hehe
<psyke83> kwwii: I darkened the colours a bit, do you reckon they're still too bright?
<kwwii> psyke83: sorry, haven't had time to look at it yet...busy trying to get an svg of the xsplash ready (and finished the banner which goes on the website tomorrow)
<kwwii> psyke83: I promise I will check it out as soon as I have a chance
<psyke83> sure thing... looking forward to seeing the new xsplash :)
<zniavre> good evening / bonsoir
<zniavre> i know it's not for karmic but this guy made a beautifull artwork software to thumbnails image/music folder
<zniavre> http://software.flogisoft.com/cover-thumbnailer/fr/
<SiDi> i like the concept but i'm not a big fan of the look of the image folders and CD cases
<knome> me neither really
<knome> it's a bit obtrusive also, i think
<knome> d6g, hello. please consider not using awaynicks. thank you.
<zniavre> ho but he's here also it's FLOZz  who made this software
<SiDi> i wonder if it would be possible to do this in thunar with tumbler though
<knome> SiDi, well why not.
<SiDi> it would actually be fairly easy, i imagine... as long as you can tell thunar how to determine if a file is a cover
<zniavre> you should ask him maybe ?
<knome> well, one could ask jannis to implement that
<SiDi> FLOZz: how do you know if an image is a cover at the moment ?
<SiDi> does the user have to tell a regexp for the name of the cover ?
<mac_v> zniavre: am i having a deja vous? or didnt you already show that link earlier ;)
<zniavre> mac_v,  maybe but i tought it was forgotten i do not want this soft forgotten i think it's really nice
<mac_v> ;)
<FLOZz> SiDi: it depend of the folder
<FLOZz> SiDi: for a music folder, cover thumbnailer search if there is a picture like cover.png, folder.png .cover.png,... in the folder...
<SiDi> i see
<FLOZz> if there are not, it take the first picture it found
<kwwii> FLOZz: nice! I like ;)
<FLOZz> kwwii: thanks =)
<FLOZz> SiDi: "i'm not a big fan of the look of the image folders and CD cases" â I'm not so good... i know... but you can change the picture if you want ^^
<SiDi> okey, FLOZz :P
<SiDi> actually it can go very well with glossy themes, but i dont like glossy ;)
<FLOZz> ^^
<knome> i agree with SiDi
<SiDi> you better do, cause i just received that kitten outfit i ordered
<knome> xubuntu is definitely one of the glossiest distros either ;)
<knome> SiDi, haha
<knome> SiDi, are you sure it fits me?
<SiDi> hm, xubuntu isn't glossy :(
<SiDi> knome: i took the Pasi model !
<knome> hehe!
<SiDi> i'm not sure i wanna find out why they have a model named after you
<knome> == X(10^2)L
<SiDi> ugh
<SiDi> i recall my sister bought me a lovely t-shirt in XXL
<SiDi> she was thinking i was fat so she said she took the largest one to make sure it suits me
<SiDi> the problem is that i wear M...
<knome> hehe
<knome> i usually have to wear XL ;(
<knome> what's the default text editor in ubuntu?
<zniavre> nano ?
<mac_v> gedit
<FLOZz> vim \o/
<SiDi> its gedit
<knome> right
<SiDi> its one of the many apps for which i have plugins to write x_x
<knome> hmm?
<SiDi> but i forgot which...
<knome> no, it was mousepad :P
<knome> write a patch to change colors
<SiDi> file a bug in mousepad on lp or xfce bugzilla and assign it to me ? :P
<SiDi> (does mousepad have a maintainer ?)
<knome> i don't know.
<knome> SiDi, http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3228
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 3228 in General "Syntax highlighting" [Enhancement,Assigned]
<knome> you can implement that as well :P
<SiDi> knome: i have the knowledge to do it, but certainly not the motivation
<SiDi> syntax highlighting is so fastidious
<SiDi> when i consider the media player and the DE dont need work anymore i might have a look at that though.. probably not before 10.10 or 11.04
<knome> http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5803
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 5803 in General "User-selectable FG/BG color" [Enhancement,New]
<MadsRH> FLOZz -> cover-thumbnailer looks very nice. Reminds me of the OOo2 thumbnailer project, have you heard about that?
<FLOZz> MadsRH: no
<FLOZz> MadsRH: but create a OOo thumbnailer is very easy =)
<MadsRH> FLOZz -> Oh, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=76566
<MadsRH> FLOZz -> I would know nothing about that, but to me it just seems they are doing the same thing.
<FLOZz> Â¿
<FLOZz> they create a thumbnailer for open office files
<FLOZz> me it's for folders
<FLOZz> ^^
<MadsRH> I get your point - I'm just fixed on the work "thumbnail" ;-)
<MadsRH> work = word
<SiDi> MadsRH: the thunar dev wrote a thumbnail generation daemon :P
<SiDi> so you can use it if you write a nautilus plugin imo :P or write plugins to it for ooo thumbnails
<FLOZz> cover thumbnailer doesn't work with thunar :(
<SiDi> i think it'll be fairly easy to do that in thunar 4.8, don't worry :]
<FLOZz> SiDi: hum ?
<SiDi> makeing a cover thumbnailer service in thunar 4.8 should be easy
<FLOZz> nautilus have a mime type for folders (inode/directory)
<FLOZz> but thunar...
<FLOZz> and if a thumbnail is already generated in the .thumbnails folder, thunar don't care :/
<SiDi> that'll change in 4.8, now it'll request thumbnails from a thumbnailer daemon independent from thunar
<SiDi> and i think you should write a feature request for the mime type
<SiDi> on bugzilla.xfce.org
<SiDi> i'm 86,24% sure the dev will be interested into the feature
<FLOZz> SiDi: ^^
<FLOZz> I have just one problem... i'm not so good in english
<FLOZz> but i will try to explain it
<SiDi> if you want you send me the thing in french and i write the report ;p
<FLOZz> SiDi: you are french Â¿
<SiDi> Actually i'm bretton ;P
<SiDi> -t
<FLOZz> xD
<FLOZz> SiDi: http://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3508  i've found this
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 3508 in general "Folder thumbnails" [Enhancement,New]
<FLOZz> thx ubottu
<FLOZz> good bot \o/
<SiDi> i think folder thumbnails are only interesting in some edge cases with the user's consent (album cover being a perfect exemple). So the dev will probably want you to come with a proposal of implementation that is robust and flexible ;P
<FLOZz> ^^
<FLOZz> Bye
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-01
<mat_t> mac_v: hey
<mat_t> mac_v: the wireless icon still overlaps with the lock...
<mac_v> mat_t: did you pull after i edited? i corrected it, it should work correctly now +*
<mac_v> :)
<mat_t> mac_v: is it in the distro now, or only in your branch?
<mac_v> mat_t: not yet in distro , only in bzr
<mat_t> ok
<mat_t> thanks
<mac_v> mat_t: the update hasnt been done since we are in beta freeze , it will among the first updates for beta :)
<mat_t> mac_v: hm, so now it seems like you reverted to the lighter gray
<mac_v> huh? no.
<mac_v> the distor one is still light grey
<mac_v> distro*
<mac_v> hasnt been updated
<mat_t> yes but your latest rev is lighter gray
<mac_v> mat_t: no way , it hasnt been touched
<mac_v> its the same shade since you last tested it
<mat_t> hm
<mat_t> what's the location of your branch again?
<mac_v> lp:humanity
<mat_t> rev 362?
<mac_v> mat_t: yup.. check if the icon you have use the color> 606060ff
<mat_t> ok, so atm battery and wireless are visibly lighter than volume, bt and messaging
<mac_v> all use same color mat_t how can they be less , and as i said it the same shade , i havent touched those icons ;)
<mat_t> weird then. OK, let's hope it's my local version getting mixed up.
<kwwii> mac_v: see why I always keep things in packaged form? that way, you just point to a .deb package or better yet, have it in your ppa and it gets updated automatically
<mac_v> :)
<kwwii> mat_t: btw, I worked with ted and cody a bit last night on the xsplash stuff...one thing you could to improve things is to make versions of the jpgs without the color profile embedded
<mac_v> kwwii: i think what must have happened , is ... mat_t would have installed the updates which installed Humanity in usr/share/ so they must have overwritten certain files ...or... mat_t must be using the Humanity theme from ~/.icons/ while the distro version from usr/share/ is overriding the icons
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, that would be my assumption as well
<kwwii> mat_t: if I open the jpgs and then save them without the profile they will be re-compressed which only makes them lower quality
<mat_t> kwwii: why would color profile be an issue?
<kwwii> mat_t: it just adds to the file size
<mat_t> ah :)
<mat_t> ok, np, I'll re-export it without the profile
<kwwii> I doubt it gets used, but if it does, I doubt everyone has an lcd monitor
<kwwii> :p
<kwwii> cool, thanks
<kwwii> mat_t: if you want, just export png files and I can do the jpg conversion
<mat_t> kwwii: well, exactly - that's what the profile is for... to tell the device "this was done on the lcd and the colors should be like mat_t saw them"
<mat_t> kwwii: but most apps will ignore the profile anyway
<kwwii> mat_t: yeah, but I do not think that on linux that works...even gimp doesn't do it right
<mat_t> sure
<mat_t> I'll do it now
<kwwii> mat_t: killer, thanks
<mat_t> np :)
<mat_t> kwwii: what's the resolution we're using?
<mat_t> is it still 2560 x 1600?
<kwwii> mat_t: yes, but if possible we should include more than one pic..that would make things work faster and, perhaps, solve some of the banding problems
<kwwii> mat_t: perhaps 3 different sizes
<kwwii> I freed up more than 2mb of disk space (which, hopefully, nobody has noticed yet)
<kwwii> mat_t: unless, of course, you think I am smoking crack :D
<mat_t> kwwii: ok, what are the resolutions we're currenly including then?
<kwwii> mat_t: currentnly only the one pic
<mat_t> kwwii: I know you are :)
<kwwii> all day, every day
<mat_t> can you check what res is that pic?
<kwwii> 2560x1600, I worked with them on it last night for a while
<mat_t> Ok
<kwwii> we have an svg which can render almost as fast as scaling that pic
<mat_t> ?
<mat_t> What do you mean by "we have an svg"?
<mat_t> Did someone recreate the graphic?
<kwwii> I mean, I made an svg based on the pixmap
<kwwii> but it is not 100% the same, and not quicker anyway
<mat_t> ah
<mat_t> :)
<kwwii> it was worth a try though
<mat_t> ok
<kwwii> I think that if we had 3 pics, and pick the best one for a range of sizes and scale that it might be much faster
<Cimi> kwwii, you were right: in these days, I haven't touched murrine :)
<mat_t> kwwii: the difference between with/without the profile is 3 kB :)
<mat_t> kwwii: but I managed to get the file size down to 87 KB
<kwwii> Cimi: hehe, good for you! A break helps sometimes as well ;)
<kwwii> mat_t: killer, every little bit helps
<mat_t> kwwii: sent
<psyke83> hey
<mat_t> kwwii: do you know anything about a new Ubuntu One icon?
<kwwii> mat_t: nope, I know nothing about ubuntuone, sorry
<mac_v> mat_t: do you mean the ubuntu-one emblems and panel icons?
<mac_v> i was sent a few of those to be added to humanity  , and they have been included
<mat_t> mac_v: panel icon primarily
<mat_t> mac_v: ok
<mat_t> thx :)
<kwwii> again, none of these changes will be included until after the beta
<kwwii> mac_v: did you put those gdm icons from mat in Humanity?
<mac_v> kwwii: am i supposed to? i didnt know
<kwwii> mac_v: didn't he send them to you?
<mac_v> yup , i have them
<mac_v> kwwii: ^
<kwwii> ;)
<mac_v> kwwii: but which folder do i put them?
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<kwwii> mac_v: no idea, I am afraid that they are app icons
<kwwii> they are the icons shown at the bottom of gdm
<kwwii> after you click on your user name
<mac_v> mat_t: the gdm icons you sent? which folder do they need to be added in humanity?
<kwwii> also, I am not sure if he made all of the necessary icons
<kwwii> mac_v: I doubt he'll have an answer for that other than "the right one"
<mac_v> hehe ;p
<mat_t> kwwii: what other ones do we need?
<kwwii> let me boot back into karmic, one minute
<kwwii> language, keyboard, sessions, accesability, shutdown
<kwwii> mac_v: looking at humanity, do you know which icons are being used?
<kwwii> mac_v: I think that those icons are all gnome icons, so it shouldn't be too hard to add the right names
<mat_t> kwwii: keyb, lang and sessions should never have been using icons in the first place :)
<mac_v> mat_t: but they are being used... the desktop team doesnt want to remove those either... so its better we not use those icons
<mac_v> kwwii: ^
<mac_v> not use your icons*
<kwwii> mat_t: all of those changes require code changes, which dbarth said he had no time for
<mat_t> right
<mat_t> ok, so we'll have a nice theme with ugly icons then ;)
<kwwii> mac_v: we honestly want to use these icons
<kwwii> mac_v: the desktop has nothing to say about this
<kwwii> desktop team
<kwwii> we decide on the design, that is why we are called the design team :p
<mac_v> mat_t: kwwii: seb does not want to remove those entires , so either all the icons need so to be done in mat_t's style ... or they will look awkward... also... if we use the standard labels , then thos icons will be used during user session
<mac_v> in the apps
<kwwii> mac_v: right, I agree with that statement
<kwwii> mac_v: but they are not used anywhere else that I know of (at least I cannot find the icons in the humanity theme)
<mac_v> so there need to be changes in the code  ,either new labels for those icons ... or ...
<mac_v> kwwii: they are used , if you show me the screenshot i'll point out
<mac_v> all the icons used there have humanity icons...
<kwwii> language, keyboard, sessions, accesability, shutdown
<mac_v> kwwii: all those are icons used in the menu either system > preferences or system > administration
<kwwii> mac_v: yeah, you are right
<mac_v> kwwii: its better to not use mat_t's icons or get new labels for them and edit the gdm accordingly ... for which mat_t has to make the complete set of icons
<kwwii> mac_v: or set another theme as default for gdm with just those icons in it
<kwwii> ;)
<kwwii> nasty, but it would work
<mac_v> yeah , nice
<mac_v> kwwii: either way more work for mat_t ;p
<mat_t> mac_v: kwwii: if it's implementable, I'm more than happy to knock out few more icons :)
<mac_v> mat_t: that is how we are doing for the gdm theme...
<mac_v> different theme
<kwwii> mat_t: language, keyboard, sessions, accesability, shutdown
<kwwii> make those and we can make a new theme with just those icons in it
<mat_t> kwwii: sounds good
<mat_t> kwwii: if I get them to you by lunchtime tomorrow, will that do?
<kwwii> yepp
<mat_t> ok :)
<mat_t> kwwii: what about removing the computer icon/name?
<mat_t> kwwii: ah, we'll also need a large version of accessibility icon - one displayed in the window
<mat_t> kwwii: I'll also change the icon to the human silhouette, it's better than the wheelchair
<kwwii> one min phone
<mat_t> np
<mac_v> mat_t: yeah  , the wheelchair , is not nice :/
<kwwii> mat_t: indeed, it is a bigger sized version
<kwwii> mat_t: either give me all svg files for png's for different sizes
<kwwii> I hadn't clicked on that one yet :p
<kwwii> maybe we could put an animated icon of a person shaking wildly and holding a cane?
<kwwii> mat_t: looking into the gdm code, I have no idea where that icon is defined
<mat_t> kwwii: you should quit smoking crack, really :)
<mat_t> kwwii: which one?
<mat_t> large one?
<kwwii> mat_t: the computer icon
<mat_t> ah
<kwwii> I know which icon it is, but not where it is defined in the code
<mat_t> how about we replace it with Ubuntu logo?
<kwwii> mat_t: yeah, we could do that
<mat_t> nice
<kwwii> as long as it has the right name, it will appear
<mat_t> great
<kwwii> I am heading out to get my son dinner, take him to my wife'S sister and then go to band practice...bbl
<mat_t> I'll get you all the icons tomorrow then
<mat_t> kwwii: thanks for all the details - enjoy! ;)
<kwwii> mac_v: do you think you could find where the computer icon is defined in the gdm code and remove it?
<kwwii> mat_t: hehe, cool, see you then
<mac_v> kwwii: remove it how? seb or pitti need to approve it
<mac_v> kwwii: anyways , since finally they have to approved the patch , it would be easier to ask seb/pitti to remove the icon from the code
<SiDi> kwwii: i think knome can confirm noone will object if that damn icon disappears
<kwwii> mac_v: the problem is not getting the code change in (for me) but actually changing the code ;)
<kwwii> at this point, we have to do whatever we can to make gdm look as close to the mockups as possible
<mac_v> kwwii: why i said , asking seb/pitti is better is ... i'd have to wade through the git for one hr to find it  , but they'd already know where exactly it is and it would be just a minute's work for them :)
<kwwii> mac_v: ok, I'll do it
<Neii> Hi is anyone good with gradients?
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-02
<kwwii> mac_v: I thought it matched the colors in the icons well
<kwwii> but anyway, I have work to do :)
<mac_v> kwwii: yeah.. ok.. when can you help with the humanity changelog?
<tgpraveen> http://d0od.blogspot.com/2009/09/karmic-tray-icons-match.html
<tgpraveen> ignore last msg
<Cimi> kwwii, IMVIO (in my very important opinion) the icons in the notification area should follow the same colors used by the test. Your grey icons won't work on grey panels for example
<Cimi> by the text
<kwwii> Cimi: yeah, I agree
<kwwii> but for now, this is what we have
<Cimi> ok ;)
<kwwii> for lucid we'll work on that more
<Cimi> you can use convert to change batch of icons in a second
<artnay> my 50-year-old test subject didn't see those monochrome icons, he said they were "almost invisible"
<artnay> and yes, he is using glasses
<kwwii> artnay: do you have the latest version? they were made darker
<kwwii> mac_v: so I guess we should discuss the humanity package at some point today, or?
<mac_v> kwwii: yup , its all ready... the problem is the bzr doesnt have the debian format.. so building the .deb is not possible yet...
<mac_v> bzr humanity
 * mac_v now trying to correct it
<kwwii> mac_v: last night you said there was a packaged version in bzr?
<mac_v> kwwii: i thought so too , but that was a tar.gz!
<kwwii> just take the source from the current package, change the name to not have a version number in it, add your changes
<kwwii> apt-get source humanity (or such)
<kwwii> change the name of the dir to just humanity (or whatever, without the version number)
<kwwii> add your changes
<kwwii> update the changelog
<kwwii> see if it builds ;
<kwwii> )
<mac_v> ;)
<kwwii> I can help you, if you'd like...I have offered that from the beginning
<mac_v> kwwii: sure , help is welcome :)
<mac_v> i'm now doing what you have just mentioned above
<kwwii> mac_v: you have the tar.gz and the .dsc file?
<mac_v> kwwii: that tar.gz , doesnt have humanity-dark , lool wants them both in the same package
<kwwii> mac_v: where did you get the tar.bz from?
<kwwii> gz
<kwwii> anyway...jsut do what I said above and we won't get into dpkg today ;)
<mac_v> kwwii: hehe , DanRabbit did a "bzr export ../humanit_0.4" and packaged it up ;)
<kwwii> mac_v: so that is just icons, or does it have a /debian dir and builds as a package?
<mac_v> just the icons , thats the prob... we dont have a /debian dir yet :(
<kwwii> let me move to another computer, brb
<kwwii> ok
<mac_v> argh! the source also doesnt have the /debian dir :(
<mac_v> source only has the icons...
<mac_v> oh!
<mac_v> oops! ... i was blind ;p
<mac_v> kwwii: this needs a lot more editing. since the package will have to install 2 themes
<mac_v> kwwii: if we change this "for d in $$(find $(CURDIR)/debian/humanity-icon-theme/usr/share/icons/Humanity"
<mac_v> to this > "for d in $$(find $(CURDIR)/debian/humanity-icon-theme/usr/share/icons"
<mac_v> would that do the trick?
<kwwii> sorry, my wife just called...let me read back
<kwwii> mac_v: after looking at it for a 30s, I would say, edit the install file, adding a line for the dark theme...(copy the other, change the dir names as necessary)
<mac_v> ;)
 * mac_v tries
<mac_v> kwwii: no need to edit the rules file?
<kwwii> mac_v: then copy the entire "for" part all the way down to "done" and paste it just before "touch", again editing the dir and paths as necessary
<kwwii> that is in rules
<mac_v> yeah .
<mac_v> ok
<kwwii> then edit the control file
<kwwii> although that should probably not be necessary
<kwwii> but I haven't looked in it yet ;)
<kwwii> nope, on need to change anything there, although it might be nice to edit the description
<kwwii> but that is up to you guys
<mac_v> kwwii: just a sec... why doing it twice?  previous the file structure was differnt
<mac_v> now lool made us change it... so now all icons are in humanity/Humanity and humanity/Humanity-Dark
<mac_v> argh! let me try... i'm not able to explain ;p
<kwwii> what?
<kwwii> relax
<kwwii> I do not think you can put both in one directory
<kwwii> there can only be one index.theme file per theme dir
<kwwii> so you will have to have /usr/share/icons/Humanity and /usr/share/icons/Humanity-Dark
<kwwii> both of the for clauses will need to be edited to reflect this path
<kwwii> in the rules file
<kwwii> mac_v: hello?
<mac_v> kwwii: hehe! just a sec... could you download $bzr branch lp:humanity
<mac_v> there are 2 index.theme
<mac_v> each in humanity and humanity-dark
<kwwii> yes, of course
<kwwii> but that is just the package
<kwwii> in the end they will be installed in different dirs
<mac_v> hrmm... :(
<kwwii> what is the problem?
<kwwii> or what do you want?
<mac_v> i get error in changelog. ... :(
<mac_v> Could not parse changelog: Unexpected line while looking for more change data or trailer
<kwwii> I suggest you push what you have so far to a bzr repo so that we can work on it together
<kwwii> make sure you do a "sudo apt-get build-dep Humanity-icons-theme
<kwwii> erm, no H, rather h
<kwwii> how did you edit the changelog?
<mac_v> kwwii: its all in the bzr , nothing more to push , only packaging has not been done
<mac_v> kwwii: using gedit
<kwwii> mac_v: erm, I am talking about the packaging you are doing now
<mac_v> kwwii: let me do one thing... i'll give you the complete changelog , could you pls package it?
<kwwii> mac_v: hrm, it would be better to use a tool like "dch -i"...you might have missed something or added something worng
<kwwii> mac_v: I packaged it almost 4 months ago :D
<kwwii> I can take care of it, yes
<mac_v> just a sec
<kwwii> I will do it based on lool's package
<kwwii> now that I have told you everthing to do, it is pretty clear to me ;)
<kwwii> but first, time to get a coffee and have a smoke
 * kwwii heads out to pick up his kid from school, bbiab
<psyke83> hi
<SiDi> hi
<mac_v> hi
<kwwii> hrm, all the links in this theme make it amazingly hard to understand
<kwwii> mac_v: the theme is 95% symlinks
<kwwii> this is *not* the right way to do this
<kwwii> but anyway
<mac_v> kwwii: yeah , the symlinks are weird :/
<mac_v> kwwii: there are way too many links ... not sure why DanRabbit has so many of those
<kwwii> mac_v: it should all be in a .links file in the debian dir, that would make things easier to manager
<kwwii> especially because they all point to the same svgs
<kwwii> silliness really
<mac_v> kwwii: ;) sometimes a symlink points to another symlink ... 0.o
<mac_v> which points elsewhere
<mac_v> it was really tough when changing the symlinks => file
<mac_v> kwwii: i think since DanRabbit started elementary a while ago... those links just kept piling up... next step will be cleaning the theme
<mac_v> some of the old labels were dropped
<mac_v> SiDi: how does the naming in Xubuntu work? does the gnome+hicolor theme have all the sufficient icons? or does Xubunutu need any extra labels?
<mac_v> knome: ^ too ;)
<SiDi> mac_v: i actually dont know how things will be done yet :p
<mac_v> hehe ;)
<SiDi> so far we're doing & requesting the icons we lack, then we'll probably put all that in xubuntu-artwork
<kwwii> mac_v: http://sinecera.de/humanity-icon-theme_0.3.2.deb
<kwwii> mac_v: look at that and tell me if everything is included
<mac_v> kwwii: hehe , nice 404 ;p
<kwwii> mac_v: http://sinecera.de/humanity-icon-theme_0.3.2_all.deb
<mac_v> kwwii: "if everything is included" in the sense?  are all the human icons replaced?
<kwwii> mac_v: no, whether this really installs all the icons and symlinks ;)
<kwwii> I think it does, but you would know better than I ;)
<mac_v> oh. ;p
<mac_v> kwwii: doesnt install ... says > dpkg: unable to read filedescriptor flags for <package status and progress file descriptor> : Bad file descriptor
<kwwii> hrm, yeah...that is a problem :p
<kwwii> ok, I'll look into that and get it going after I get back from the train station
<DanRabbit> kwwii, mac_v: the symlinks are there as to provide compatibility will all the apps out there. Third party developers don't always name things correctly ;)
<DanRabbit> Also, there are links that point to other links because some icons are due to be replaced
<DanRabbit> for example, there could be a mimetype for text-x-ruby and it's a link that point to text-x-script
<DanRabbit> and eventually text-x-ruby should have it's own icon
<DanRabbit> so links like application-x-ruby will point to text-x-ruby instead of text-x-script
<DanRabbit> This is foresight, not a mistake ;)
<kwwii> DanRabbit: right but they should not be in the dir itself but in a file and created at bui
<kwwii> build
<DanRabbit> I agree
<DanRabbit> I've not knowledge of how to do that, however ;)
<tgpraveen> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/humanity-icon-theme/+bug/437606 should i file this bug in humanity or is it good enough to be filed here itself?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 437606 in humanity-icon-theme "usb hdds can't be spotted in nautilus side pane" [Undecided,New]
<SiDi> kwwii: you could have waited for lucid to begin using humanity. Now because of that DanRabbit is not available for elementary :p
<jonian_g_> ubottu: I can work on that if it is necessary
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<tgpraveen> jonian_g that would be great
<tgpraveen> assign the bug to urself
<jonian_g_> ok, it will be ready in about an hour and I'll upload it in bzr
<kwwii> SiDi: lol
<kwwii> DanRabbit: no worries, once we get this set up, it won't be a problem
<DanRabbit> SiDi: I am setting aside some time for elementary ;)
<DanRabbit> new release either today or tomorrow
<kwwii> btw, if anyone is interested...here is the first of our icon testing:
<kwwii> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=8hXmjrmFS7TmQCjh7jJB_2bQ_3d_3d
 * DanRabbit --> shower
<mac_v> yeah , once again kwwii to the rescue \o/
<kwwii> I suggest everyone go through that, whether you use launchpad or not
<SiDi> my answers will be 200% verbose
<SiDi> but i'm gonna do it :)
<jonian_g_> Bug # 437606 fixed. Now I wonder why I said I need an hour to do it!
<tgpraveen1> jonian_g wooo hoo ! thx
<tgpraveen1> btw could u upload a screenshot of how it looks now. am at my windows laptop now and cant wait to see it
<tgpraveen1> :)
<jonian_g_> ok
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<tgpraveen1> jonian_g: btw hows the progress on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/humanity-icon-theme/+bug/436462?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 436462 in humanity-icon-theme "Have different icons for usb hardisks and pendrives" [Undecided,In progress]
<jonian_g> tgpraveen1: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1541424/Screenshot.png
<jonian_g> the other bug is on its way
<jonian_g> I just need some help an which are the icons for pendrives
<jonian_g> *on
<tgpraveen1> k. great work on that previous bug
<jonian_g> thanks
<jonian_g> btw, can't we use 24px icons on nautilus side panel?
<tgpraveen1> dont knw much. maybe mac_v ^^ knows
<mac_v> jonian_g: the side pane uses only 16px
 * DanRabbit --> be back later
<jonian_g> mac_v: I know mate. I'm just thinking that it would be better if it used 24px... visibility reasons (some people don't have sharp eyes)
<mac_v> hehe , we can hack it ;)
<mac_v> jonian_g: argh! another upload ;p ... you are a machine ;)
<jonian_g> nah, I'm a bit lay lately :P
<jonian_g> *lazy
<mac_v> jonian_g: just a few hrs ago i put up the 0.4.1 ,
<mac_v> on lp
<jonian_g> mac_v: will the new icons (after beta) be included?
<mac_v> jonian_g: will you be doing any more icons? i *think* kwwii has already packaged the icons for ubuntu upload...
<jonian_g> I'm doing the ones for pendrives
<jay-tmt-2> Hi everyone -- I have two quick questions that probably have very simple answers:  Why is it that the Human theme has such a heavy black shadow in the titlebar text?  And why does the text seem not to be vertically centered?
<mac_v> hmm , ah well... users can download it from lp bzr ;)
<mac_v> jonian_g: ^
<jonian_g> mac_v: can you, please, tell me which icons are for pendrives?
 * mac_v checks
<mac_v> jonian_g: devices/drive-removable-media-usb-pendrive.png
<jonian_g> thanks mc_v
<jonian_g> *mac_v
<mac_v> jonian_g: np :)
<tgpraveen1> (11:31:36 PM) mac_v: hmm , ah well... users can download it from lp bzr <---- u mean it wont be karmic final?
<mac_v> tgpraveen1: not sure!...
<tgpraveen1> k
<tgpraveen1> gn everyone
<jonian_g> tgpraveen1: any suggestion for the pendrive color? a light purple maybe?
<psyke83> hi
<psyke83> kwwii: any news re: the metacity?
<kwwii> psyke83: none at all, actually
<kwwii> psyke83: I think they are really busy with other work
<psyke83> sure
<psyke83> did you take a look at the proposals? Any you personally like?
<psyke83> I'm not sure if it's dark enough for them
<kwwii> I like a couple of the full gradients but I am guessing it is kinda late in the cycle for these changes
<kwwii> heading out to bed now
<kwwii> I'll be online all weekend
<psyke83> yes, it's a shame I didn't try it earlier
<psyke83> anyway, nite nite :)
<zniavre> http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2264/screenshotul.png > im looking for something close to this mockup > google search zone , inside the panel. some of you know if it exists on Linux please ?
<mac_v> zniavre: i think deskbar , or something of the sort does that,  you can add the search *icon* to the panel , but i dont think you can add a search bar... i'v been looking for one too , if you find it pls ping me too ;)
<zniavre> mac_v, that s true deskbar is not what i really want and i never find this feature  at this moment
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-03
<dashua> kwwii, bzr branch lp:~dashua/human-theme/humantheme
<dashua> When you're up, minor tweaks.
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26378/screenshot_005_r6Q8sa.png
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<SiDi> DanRabbit: actually here is a better place :P
<SiDi> let me know when you're around please
<kwwii_> evening
 * ckontros waves @ Ken then goes outside to wash the car.
<SiDi> hi
<DanRabbit> SiDi: ping
<SiDi> DanRabbit: pong
<DanRabbit> what's up?
<SiDi> fine, you ?
<SiDi> DanRabbit: what i wanted to talk to you about is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementaryicons/+bug/441499 i just wrote the report
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 441499 in elementaryicons "Please don't make links pointing to notification-* icons" [Undecided,New]
<DanRabbit> I'm good
<DanRabbit> SiDi: that sounds like a reasonable request :D
<DanRabbit> I'll fix it after I get breakfast and respond to my morning emails
<SiDi> thanks then :)
<DanRabbit> SiDi: are there any others besides the nm icons?
<SiDi> hm nope
<SiDi> other icons didnt seem to link to notification ones
<DanRabbit> okay then I'm pushing to BZR right now :)
<SiDi> only nm-signal-* and nm-device-wireless
<SiDi> thanks :]
<SiDi> btw there's no author file in elementary ?
<SiDi> all icons are 100% from you ?
<DanRabbit> ah, I miss the nm-device-wireless ;)
<DanRabbit> there should be an author file.
<DanRabbit> There's a few icons from Humanity in there now, but yes it's all me :D
<SiDi> okies
<DanRabbit> Yea, there is an AUTHORS file in there ;)
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26437/screenshot_8sNYWu.png
<dashua> How's that look for a new DarkRoom type theme?
<dashua> Started as a login screen hack and transformed into a theme.
<zniavre> it's beautiful really
<DanRabbit1> Looking good
<dashua> Ok cool.  I have some things to tweak, but this really was an accident.
<dashua> Thx
<zniavre> it reminds me the wilwil hardy theme
<dashua> Yeah, that is where some of the inspirations came from
<dashua> Always have that theme in the back of my mind
<zniavre> can you make menu bg yellow ?
<zniavre> :o)
<dashua> Let me try
<dashua> See what it looks like
<DanRabbit1> dashua: I made some comments. I forgot you just linked us here :p
<DanRabbit1> wait
<DanRabbit1> nvm
<DanRabbit1> different theme
<zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Wall-light
<DanRabbit1> haha, I am scatterbrained ;)
<dashua> zniavre, Looks pretty good man.  i have to mess with the text colors.
<zniavre> how 's menubar behaviour ?
<dashua> http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26438/screenshot_5mQQIl.png
<dashua> Need to tweak the text now
<dashua> menubar = dark
<dashua> zniavre, You want to hack on it if you have some time? I have to go to a wedding.
<dashua> I'll upload to bzr
<zniavre> why not
<dashua> Cool, one sec
<zniavre> i remember i tried to made a willwill murrine theme but menu menu-item menu bar were tricky
<dashua> bzr branch lp:~dashua/human-theme/humantheme
<dashua> bbl thx :)
<zniavre> http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1030/capturecz.png  funny to play with someone gtkrc
<LaserJock> kwwii: around?
<LaserJock> I'm looking at this bug about highlight_ratio being deprecated in gtkrc
<LaserJock> however the Edubuntu gtkrc uses hilight_ratio
<LaserJock> I'm wondering if we had a typo
#ubuntu-artwork 2009-10-04
<kwwii> LaserJock: hey
<kwwii> which bug?
<LaserJock> kwwii: hola
<LaserJock> one sec
<LaserJock> kwwii: bug #345417
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 345417 in human-theme ""highlight_ratio" will be deprecated" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/345417
<kwwii> highlight ratio is gone, afaik
<kwwii> deprecated, as said
<kwwii> Edubuntu gtkrc needs to be updated, it seems
<LaserJock> kwwii: well, but we have hilight_ratio
<LaserJock> not highlight_ratio
<kwwii> LaserJock: the current Human doesn't have it
<LaserJock> I'm wondering if that's a typo on our part ...
<kwwii> I am guess you are either behind on the human-theme or that and the murrine engien
<kwwii> erm
<kwwii> if you look at the human gtkrc there is no highlight_ratio defined anymore
<LaserJock> right
<kwwii> I think we changed that before jaunty
<LaserJock> I guess I can just hilight_ration -> highlight_shade and see what it does
<kwwii> or perhaps earlier
<kwwii> ?
<LaserJock> kwwii: we have higlight, not highlight
<LaserJock> I'm assuming we meant highlight
<kwwii> LaserJock: if you look in the murrine source you will find an xml file with the definitions for all possible variables
<LaserJock> i see
<kwwii> highlight_shade is all I know of
<kwwii> it does quite a lot ;)
<kwwii> but in combination with other variables
<kwwii> time for sleep, here, catch me tomorrow afternoon (my time!) and I'll help more
<Cimi> kwwii, /usr/share/gtk-engines
<kwwii> LaserJock: ^---------^
<kwwii> night all
<maco> hola. i'm trying to make an icon for SPIM, a MIPS assembly emulator. I cannot come up with a "functional" icon for "emulator" though.  A mask was suggested. Something that says "MIPS" or has some assembly in it was suggested as well (though thatd be kinda tiny...) ...So, I figure someone in here may have a better idea
<dashua> zniavre, Any luck?
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<BHSPitLappy> maco, maybe an icon of a processor die with "MIPS" (or SPIM) written on it
<mac_v> SiDi: for the mail-mark-junk , do you want it similar to the gnome icon? or...?
<zniavre> dashua,  sorry not really good stuff ijust played with your gtkrc and my metacity #GtkWidget      :: link-color           	= shade (0.9, @bg_color)
<zniavre> 	#GtkWidget      :: visited-link-color   	= shade (0.2, @fg_color)
<zniavre> http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7646/captureuz.png > sorry wrong paste
<mac_v> kwwii: the human login theme for the gdm , seems too black :/ maybe a little browner like in the mockups would be better
<mac_v> oh! , somewhat closer to what zniavre has done above ^
<zniavre> mac_v,  it's dashua project
<mac_v> zniavre: yeah , with your mod ;)
<SiDi> mac_v: i'd love something like the tango one
<mac_v> SiDi: hehe , that similar to the gnome one ;)  yeah , thats what i had in mind
<zniavre> that is sad the new gdm does not support murrine+rgba
<BHSPitLappy> transparency party!
<zniavre> how to change progressbar color and statusbar font color please?
<rolo-svk_> radio rivendell is playing right now -> the beacons of minas tirith... the beacons are lit... gondor calls for aid... ;)
<rolo-svk_> sorra wrong channel ;)
<dashua> zniavre, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/26477/screenshot_006_q2n7NI.png
<dashua> Still needs work.  Issues with Firefox text
<zniavre> dashua,  did you use pixmap picture for the menu gradient ?
<psyke83> hi
<dashua> zniavre, Yes
<dashua> I don't know of a way to do it with the engine itself.
<dashua> I can get firefox fixed, but not with light menu_bg
<FLOZz> Hello all  _o/
<MadsRH> Hey. Could you guy provide some feedback on my UI suggestion for Software Center?
<MadsRH> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175241/SoftwareCenter-Games.jpg
<MadsRH> Of course this mockup doesn't include all the "departments"
<kwwii> MadsRH: I think that if you make it more than a simple UI people won't get it
<SiDi_> if you put them all you may lose quite a while of screen real estate :/
<kwwii> anyway, time for bed
<MadsRH> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175241/SoftwareCenter-Departments.jpg
<MadsRH> kwwii -> Of course with Clutter I think it will be more understandable
<kwwii> I would go for a much more simplistic, realistic version then
<kwwii> almost like a 3D music view with sarch
<kwwii> search
<kwwii> but anywa
<kwwii> y
<kwwii> ahhh
<kwwii> I have up
<kwwii> time for bed
<SiDi_> lol
<SiDi_> night kwwii
<SiDi_> MadsRH: what about a grid, and when you click a category, it opens, and other icons go on the right ?
<MadsRH> SiDi_ -> I don't get it - you're talking nonsens
<SiDi_> MadsRH: :D my speciality
<SiDi_> ok, imagine you have several rows and columns of category icons
<SiDi_> games, internet, etc
<SiDi_> all with an icon and label below the icon
<SiDi_> when you click on one of them, the whole category appears
<SiDi_> and the other category icons move to the right of the screen
<MadsRH> like the departments screen atm
<SiDi_> i dont know how it is atm
<SiDi_> we dont have softwarecentre :x
<MadsRH> (sorry a little late) :-)
<MadsRH> SiDi_ -> Okay, I get it. Makes sense. There's is a "Clutter"fication planed so somekind of animation is coming in 10.04 anyway
<SiDi_> ah of course, it has to depend on GNOME + WEBKIT
<SiDi_> the average ubuntu product...
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-04
<thorwil> chaotic: hi! your boss like #2 of http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/spreadubuntu_set_02.png but said "May need some final perfectionist tweaking on spacing / tracking"
<thorwil> chaotic: how do you see that? the SVG can be found at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/%2Bjunk/spreadubuntu_art/files/4
<chaotic>  thorwil just discussing with marcushaslam
<thorwil> chaotic: so, is there an outcome of that discussion? ;)
<chaotic> thorwil: hi, Marcus is looking at the new Ubuntu One logo too at the moment - I've made him aware of this but we don't have a final decision just yet
<chaotic> thorwil: go ahead with number two (think that's definitely the nicest) and if we can we'll revisit it once the other things are in place
<thorwil> chaotic: ok, thanks
<doctormo> thorwil: I wanted to say: *high five*
<thorwil> \o
<thorwil> doctormo: there's a hole in my vocabulary, no proper response, so you get the above instead ^^
<thorwil> at least i guess "to punch in" or "to knock in" doesn't work
<chaotic> thorwil: :)
<doctormo> thorwil: I liked your designs.
<thorwil> doctormo: thanks, i got that :)  high five just got me wondering about a possible translation of a german idiom
<thorwil> kwwii: is there an english equivalent to the german "einschlagen" in the sense of answering a give-me-five?
<kwwii> thorwil: hit me or such, but it sounds kinda funky
<thorwil> kwwii: i see. thanks!
<kwwii> np
<doctormo> thorwil: are you still here?
<thorwil> doctormo: yes. wrestling with flight schedules to orlando ;)
 * thorwil decides to get high in amsterdam
<thorwil> doctormo: what's the matter?
<doctormo> thorwil: There has been some conversation on the UCC about the free culture showcase, which parts are you involved with that (if any)
<thorwil> doctormo: none (i once took part with a piece of music)
<doctormo> thorwil: OK do you know who the principle people are now?
<thorwil> doctormo: no. i would ask ivanka
<vish> come on thorwil ! spill it!
<doctormo> thorwil: I meant community people that were involved before the design team. Just trying to see who we have.
<doctormo> If you're not sure, that's ok, I'll scout some more.
<vish> doctormo: iirc jcastro was incharge of it..
<doctormo> By the way, would you want to be involved at all in the competition?
<thorwil> doctormo: well, i vaguely recall being on a session in dallas about the showcase.
<thorwil> vish: huh?
<vish> thorwil: you know all the secrets! ;p
<thorwil> vish: you see, some of them are true secrets, because i must have forgotten about them!!
<thorwil> there must be a gobby document
<thorwil> doctormo: i'd be reluctant to be on the jury, just in case i ever want to submit some work myself (though currently, that is not likely, either)
<vish> doctormo: michael forrest did the recent music free culture thing..
<doctormo> thorwil: I don't think anyone in the organisation of the project _should_ be judging. We'll leave that to the CC ;-)
<thorwil> well, *yawn* ... good night! :)
<doctormo> thorwil: I was wondering if it was wise to bring in the community theme package and the sound theme into the same competition.
<thorwil> doctormo: the community theme package needs special attention and i don't think it fits in. the sound theme is a tricky business, where competition on the level of complete themes would likely do more harm than good
<doctormo> Hmm perhaps strict enterance into those parts of it.
<vish> doctormo: you are mixing a few things in here..
<doctormo> vish: Deliberately so.
<vish> doctormo: conor from design team wanted to look into the sound theme
<vish> doctormo: they planned it for 11.04 and not sooner..
 * doctormo says to himself that if he can't mix ideas in his own head because of lack of knowlege, then he'll just keep putting about absurdity until the mix happens and things fall out.
<doctormo> vish: Lucky for conor that the next showcase will be for 11.04
<vish> doctormo: i guess you missed the announcement for the sound theme on design blog?
<doctormo> vish: I probably read it.
<coz_> build error on maverick    http://pastebin.com/V2HizeuB
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-05
<krabador> it's possible that users will have some surprise in artworks (splash, wallpapers, etc) putting the stable in the pc, the 10th?
<thorwil> chaotic: on http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop, to the top left of "Type to search", there's a gap in the 1px shadow beneath the orange bar
<thorwil> well, i see it's on purpose and consistent. problem comes from my perception of that being a shadow of the orange bar
<vish> interesting! http://vimeo.com/15425583 via chaotic  ;)
<vish> doctormo: thorwil: what do you think about doing design bounty  like how fedora does?
<thorwil> wicked
<thorwil> vish: a lot of work
<vish> thorwil: is that you just gaining more hip lingo! ;p
<vish> thorwil: yes it is.. but we need to do something :(
<thorwil> what? my lingo isn't hip? outrageous
<thorwil> vish: aside of our own preference to be part of a thriving artwork/design community, i'm not so sure about the need
<vish> thorwil: thriving!!! ?
<vish> thorwil: well, its more of a dying!
<thorwil> vish: read that sentence again ;)
<thorwil> preference -> what we would like
<vish> thorwil: well, i just want to see something useful come out of this team..  if nothing works out, just closing up shop also works neat ;)
<thorwil> and even dying is wrong. it's dead jim. or maybe a scufling zombie
<thorwil> vish: that's why i suggested to declare the team/list a place for those who work with and/or for *buntu. where you go if you are involved, not a place where things start
<vish> thorwil: oh well.. what can old farts do â¦ :(
<thorwil> vish: we can improve the wiki, try to get http://art.ubuntu-owl.org/ going, point people to spreadubuntu ...
<thorwil> vish: but seeing the lack of response, the lack of people who would show initiative, we might want to concentrate on what we can get done, personally
<vish> thorwil: i think the lack of response, it the lack of advertisement/fame..  i hate to say this but why are people more eager to do mockups for OMG?
<vish> it -> is
<thorwil> vish: if that's the case, it could be tackled by showcasing selected work. on the design blog?
<vish> yea kinda! hence the need for an art.ubuntu.com site which has a blog too
<vish> thorwil: also another issue seems to be that a few LoCos have their resident designers, but some dont.. we need to gather those folk and make it a common team that helps all LoCo..
 * vish bbl
<Cimi> kwwii: could you approve my membership of Ubuntu Artkwork Packagers?
<thorwil> this should be it, then: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/spreadubuntu-logo-3/
<vish> â
<thorwil> vish: what glyph is that, even?
<vish> thorwilâ£ i dont know.. i was just playing with the character map :p
<thorwil> the "What's in it for you" section baffles me: http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/10/04/fedora-design-bounty-fedora-students-contributing-t-shirt/
<vish> thorwilâ£ yea, saw that and i'm pretty sure if we tried that for Ubuntu we can not do a fwe of those ;)
<vish> few*
<thorwil> btw, i took the scissors from Humanity for http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/header.png ... and just now though of editing the post to pint that out
<vish> yup, noticed :)
<thorwil> also, if fedora has design ninjas ... pirates? nah
<vish> thorwilâ£ we should have design sensai!
<thorwil> heh
<kwwii> Cimi_: done :-)
<vish> kwwiiâ£ hey! :)
 * thorwil wonders if kwwii will become a kind of obi-wan
<kwwii> hey kids
<kwwii> thorwil: I am working on it
<kwwii> I'Ve just had a lot to do lately (and my wife is sick)
<kwwii> anyway, time to head out for a bit, bbl
 * thorwil needs a better "translate" icon
<doctormo> thorwil: Nice work on that header :-)
<thorwil> doctormo: thanks!
<doctormo> We just need some improvements to the spread ubuntu design and code to make it comparable to a ccHost and have some sort of whole and non-whole resource only sections.
<thorwil> doctormo: have been wondering about spreadubuntu vs art.ubuntu-owl.org
<thorwil> doctormo: so you're in favor of forgetting about the later?
<thorwil> does spreadubuntu do SVG previews?
<thorwil> hrmpf, so late again. good night! :)
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-06
<AlanBell> kwwii: hi, will you be going to UDS?
<AlanBell> kwwii: the #gally project is looking for a photographer for a photoshoot at UDS of images for a sign language tutorial application
<kwwii> AlanBell: no, I will not be at UDS this time
<AlanBell> ok, neither will I :(
<AlanBell> I will be sat at home playing http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk :)
<markben> I'm a web developer running Ubuntu that wants to start using Inkscape/GIMP to do my website mockups.  Anyone have advise on getting started and what a good workflow is?
<thorwil> markben: hi! hmmm ...
<thorwil> markben: working in inkscape allows you much better control over shapes and gradients. things can remain flexible
<thorwil> markben: this is about ui mockups, but might contain something useful to you: http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/08/02/creating-ui-mockups-in-inkscape-video-tutorial/
<markben> thorwil: Thanks!  That's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for! :)
<thorwil> markben: set the grid to 1px spacing. # key toggles grid visibility. also make use of coordinates and width/height in the toolbar to keep things on the pixel grid for sharp results
<markben> thorwil: Good tip.  I'd read that some of the exported images can be a bit fuzzy sometimes.  That sounds like a good solution.
<thorwil> markben: the Export dialog has a batch feature. say you want to slice your page into parts: use a layer where you place rectangles in the right places and sizes. then when you want to export, lock other layers, select all in that layer and use the batch export option. best to do a dry-run to get it
<thorwil> markben: do you code PHP and/or Python, Ruby ... ?
<markben> thorwil: Ruby with a little Python on the side.  I run our local Ruby usergroup and need to give our site a facelift. :)
<markben> thorwill: http://yegrb.com
<thorwil> i see :)
<markben> Is there a simple quick
<markben> way to share screenshots on Ubuntu?
<markben> I've seen an app which takes an image on your computer and returns a short-url to it with one click on Mac but I can't remember what it was called.
<markben> I'm looking for an Ubuntu alternative but google is failing me without a name for the app.
<thorwil> perhaps http://shutter-project.org ?
<thorwil> though it looks like it does a lot more and has no such one-click feature
<markben> thorwil: Thanks.  That looks like it will do what I need.  I'm just looking a for an easy way to share screenshots with some other members.
<thorwil> markben: well, try ubuntu-one?
<markben> thorwil: I tried ubuntu-one last year and didn't find it synced very well for me.  I also need something with clients for Mac and Windows.  I'm willing to try it again though and see if it's improved as I'd rather use UbuntuOne than Dropbox.
<markben> Anything I can do to support Ubuntu development is a priority in my books. :)
<markben> thorwill: Do you have an example of using the Export dialog as you described.  I'm just trying that now.
<thorwil> i admit that i was disappointed by ubuntu one and use dropbox
<thorwil> but the support/availability would be an argument in favor of it, if all involved use ubuntu
<markben> thorwil: Unfortunately at this point I'm the vangaurd of Ubuntu at the meetup, though I've been getting a lot of questions about it.
<markben> thorwil: Most of my members have begun using Ubuntu server in a VM for Ruby development.
<thorwil> markben: regarding support, i guess spreadubuntu or the ubuntu manual project could use a helping hand ;)  though not ruby in either case
<markben> thorwil: I've been contributing translations to the Canadian english local.  I'm looking at contributing to Shotwell or Kazam.
<markben> thorwil: I like the idea of working on things that share the progress Ubuntu has made in the look-and-feel department.
<markben> thorwil: FYI, I think I just got the batch export option working in Inkscape with the selected rectangles you described.
<markben> thorwil: That tip will save a tonne of time! Thx!
<thorwil> markben: np :)
<markben> thorwil: My lunch break is over now though.  Got to get back to some *real* work.  TTYL!
<popey> I'm guessing most of you are on the list already, but if not https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2010-October/012357.html
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-07
<thorwil> popey: i guess a youtube skin consists of: square logo (in 2 sizes), one bg color or image, 2 box colors, text and link colors?
<popey> no idea thorwil :)
<thorwil> popey: should be very straightforward to apply a ubuntu.com alike style, but i'm busy with a mockup and would like to see if someone else picks this up
<popey> ok
<doctormo> popey: It's a shame youtube doesn't allow channels to redirect, we'd have a better website showing youtube videos and default them all to html5 for the look of the thing. Although me is biased since I fight the youtube UI all the time for control over what I want to watch.
<popey> doctormo: build it and we can point people to it
<doctormo> popey: What does it need to do again?
<popey> doctormo: show videos?
<doctormo> popey: That's a vague set of requirements for a whole website. I could knock up a website which shows two fixed videos and fulfil it technically.
<doctormo> What I mean to ask
<doctormo> Is where do you want users uploading videos to, how automatic would you like listing of videos and what kind of community participation would be good?
<popey> I think there's a danger of overthinking it
<popey> most of the videos we put out there are to attract people, and most of those (mass generalisation) inhabit youtube
<popey> they also generally have flash etc, so dont care for html5
<doctormo> popey: There's a paracticalist for you, always pushing away the marketing in favour of the bland.
<doctormo> We could link in to what ever community, build a community in that area.
<doctormo> http://xkcd.com/802/ <- use this as a map if you like
<doctormo> But there is a difference which I'm trying to assess between servicing the X community that are interested in Ubuntu and serving the Ubuntu community with service X.
<doctormo> Which is what I think I'm trying to ask you.
 * popey shurgs
<popey> its not my baby
<doctormo> So you don't know what it's for?
<popey> "it" being the youtube developer channel?
<popey> or "it" being "a system of getting video content to people"?
<popey> I can only speculate what I think the channel is for
<doctormo> popey: The youtube channel requiring a theme.
<popey> the request came from jorge
<doctormo> And "a system of getting video" to which people?
<doctormo> Youtube people or Planet Ubuntu people.
<doctormo> Maybe I should ask jcastro, *sigh* few seem to ever think about marketing seriously.
<popey> :(
<popey> all I did was ask for a theme to make the youtube developer channel look 'nicer'
<doctormo> Sorry, just a bedbug that all this theming is burning away people's time without concise direction so logos and styles don't match their target audience. It's not your fault.
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-08
<zniavre_> good afternoon
<zniavre_> there is no icons for gps devices?
<zniavre_> and second stupid question of the day : why libgtk changed the way it's not possible to use rounded menus with murrine engine?
<zniavre> was stupid it's murrine-engine related look at those screenshot > rounded menu    http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9216/capture1lc.png with murrine-engine from lucid  (im using maverick 10.10)
<zniavre> squared menus > http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/3153/capture2f.png  with 0.98.1 murrine engine
<zniavre> why it's impossible to use rounded menu now ?
<zniavre> even the transparence is different
<vish> zniavreÂ¦ Cimi made some changes for menus, i think he mentioned something being a problem with the rounded menus now
<vish> zniavreÂ¦ the menu is now not one color, it has a bit of shadow when it reaches the edges
<zniavre> ok
<Cimi> zniavre: it might be a change in the murrine engine
<Cimi> not sure
<Cimi> w8
<Cimi> yeah looks like something is wrong in murrine
<Cimi> from what I read, it should be rounded with menustyle = 0 and 1
<Cimi> no just with 0
<zniavre> Cimi,  =1 is stripped a just one corner rounded
<Cimi> ok
<zniavre> a>and*
<zniavre> =0 is rounded as i wanted > sorry for disturbs
<thorwil> "License" and "Original Author" will have to be discussed on spreadubuntu list, but otherwise: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/8d77de38c5e72f202516ff463156a8f5
#ubuntu-artwork 2010-10-10
<eboyjr> Why was the new font so secretive?
<eboyjr> Well.. is ;)
<eboyjr> I got the ubuntu-r-webfont.ttf but that's it
<eboyjr> Why was the new font so secretive?
<thorwil> _.-/^\-._
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-10-03
<karloskar> hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2011-10-07
<bluebomber> Where can someone find & download the ubuntu cd packaging artwork (e.g. dotted circle of friends)?
<bluebomber> Whoops. Nevermind (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing#A11.10_artwork)
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-10-02
<emeka88> Hello
#ubuntu-artwork 2012-10-03
<uros1> hello people, greetings from Serbia LoCo
<uros1> we are making some material for nexte release and we need official logo for 12.10
<uros1> in svg
<uros1> can anybody point me where to find it?
#ubuntu-artwork 2016-10-05
<nhaines> o hai Flannel and pleia2
<pleia2> o/ nhaines
#ubuntu-artwork 2017-10-05
<Lowas> #ubuntu-desktop
