#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-11
<dogmatic69> bought a nikon d3000 today, does not seem to be picked up by ubuntu
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> lsusb has Bus 001 Device 011: ID 04b0:0424 Nikon Corp.
<dogmatic69> nautilus has nothing
<directhex> dogmatic69, it's likely to be MTP, not MSC? so i don't think nautilus would see it
<dutchie> probably simplest to pull out the sd card and stick it in a reader then
<directhex> try shotwell/f-spot
<dogmatic69> directhex: what is MTP / MSC
<directhex> MSC, Mass Storage Controller, is where a device acts like a USB hard disk
<dogmatic69> ok
<dogmatic69> shotwell says "The camera is locked by another application.  Shotwell can only access the camera when it's unlocked.  Please close any other application using the camera and try again."
<directhex> MTP, Media Transfer Protocol, is where a device instead presents itself as a device of a given class, and can have data transferred to/from it - notably it doesn't present things like folders, although your OS can make some fake folders & play pretend
<dogmatic69> ah, thanks
<directhex> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1447104&page=2 ?
<dogmatic69> i read that now
<dogmatic69> dont wanna log out :(
<nucc1> that happens to me too :p
<dogmatic69> tx
<dogmatic69> seems to work like that :)
<dogmatic69> never mind... just died again
<nucc1> dogmatic69, just pull out the memory card. MTP cameras are a bit of a bother to use in Linux.
<dogmatic69> got no reader, will have to get one
<nucc1> dogmatic69, i'm not sure, but some cameras have a setting where you can switch between MTP and Mass Storage mode
<dogmatic69> nucc1: does not look like an option here
<dogmatic69> will get a reader i think
<nucc1> yea, good idea. they're not so expensive. can get some for 3 quid on amazon.
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> http://i.min.us/im93yy.png
<dogmatic69> takes pretty cool pics :)
<nucc1> it makes pngs ? :)
<dogmatic69> nope, NEF
<dogmatic69> gimp makes pngs
<nucc1> lol. why did you convert it?
<nucc1> you use the gimp for resizing?
<dogmatic69> chrome cant show nef files
<nucc1> hmmm. don't think i've heard of NEF files before...
<nucc1> i was going to recommend GThumb, but i don't know about it's support
<dogmatic69> DSLR raw stuff
<dogmatic69> http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/
<dogmatic69> nef -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_image_format
<nucc1> yea, i've heard about raw, just didn't know they also went by "NEF"
<nucc1> i wouldn't know anyway, my camera is my phone
<dogmatic69> mine was till today :)
<dogmatic69> nef is nikon specific
<dogmatic69> every camera has its own version of raw
<dogmatic69> s/camera/manufacturer
<nucc1> i used to think that a JPEG at 100% quality meant no compression.
<nucc1> seems i was wrong.
<nucc1> btw, is that a duck or a goose? :p
<nucc1> anyway, nice picture.
<dutchie> nucc1: definitely a duck
<dutchie> :P
<nucc1> lol. geese have longer necks
<nucc1> according to the pictures on wikipedia
<nucc1> "quacks do not echo". he he.
<dwatkins> Is that not an urban myth?
<dwatkins> myth busted, apparently
<KINGOFSWORDS> hello ppl
<KINGOFSWORDS> is swiftfox worth getting
<phonex01> when i login i have this error msg "could not update ICEauthority file" ????
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2011 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/11/community-leadership-summit-2011/
<shauno> morning
<awilkins> Bah, back to work for a week of fighting brushfires
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Hindsight Is Almost 20/20 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/11/hindsight-is-almost-2020/
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> hello
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey are you well?
<popey> yup
<MooDoo> good good
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell
<MooDoo> finally got my planet feed link off my to do list
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: morning :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh shiny. A day made of Glass... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ38
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: how quick would you break something though :)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: thats pretty
<AlanBell> in a world made of glass who needs windows?
<AlanBell> um
<MooDoo> perhaps when my son is older :D
<popey> disappointed the glass bowl the popcorn came in didnt do something amazing
<popey> MUST TRY HARDER CORNING!
<dwatkins> morning folks
<MooDoo> dwatkins: morning :D
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: I look forward to the day I can have windows like that, just like in Blade Runner :D
<MooDoo> dwatkins: you'd have to have vengelis playing in the background ;)
<dwatkins> MooDoo: I think I could handle that
<TheOpenSourcerer> Some neat ideas/concepts in there. I like the kitchen myself ;-)
<dwatkins> I think I'd prefer a gas hob, though.
<MooDoo> +1
<MartijnVdS> FAHYAR!
<dwatkins> I like the idea of a phone which lets you transfer the call to the worktop, also.
<ali1234> is ubuntuforums.org hosted by canonical?
<dwatkins> the domain name appears to belong to them, ali1234
<MooDoo> ali1234: it's nameservers are canonicals
 * dwatkins wonders if 'Circular Road' is a nod at Google's 'Infinite Loop' 
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Apple's infinite loop
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: and isn't Circular the only road on IoM? :P
<dwatkins> haha
<popey> ali1234: yes, canonical host the boxes behind ubuntuforums.org
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: whats IoM?
<dwatkins> nah, plenty of roads on the Isle of Man
<ali1234> oh
<popey> Isle Of Man
<MooDoo> don't you watch the bike TT :)
<ali1234> i'm aware of it
<ali1234> i just never saw it abbreviated like that before
<bigcalm> Good morning earthlings :)
<daubers> bigcalm: You alienist you
 * MooDoo upgraded to natty last night :D
 * kazade kazade did a couple of nights ago
<dwatkins> No deleted /boot directory then, MooDoo?
<kazade> wtf?
<MooDoo> dwatkins: huh?
<kazade> did I just write "kazade" lol
<dwatkins> MooDoo: I heared on the general offtopic channel of a few people whose /boot got deleted when they upated recently
<MooDoo> dwatkins: ooo didn't notice, thought all went swimmingly to be honest, some weird flash playback issue but nothing major
<MooDoo> and it works wonderful on my tv via hdmi :)
<dwatkins> yay
<dwatkins> I plan on connecting up my laptop via hdml soon so I can use my TV as a monitor - my other half just got a 24" Apple cinema display, so I decided it's time I used the TV to play games on ;)
<MooDoo> dwatkins: had to figure out how to change audio so it played through the tv :)
<dwatkins> MooDoo: sounds like it went well then
<MooDoo> dwatkins: yeah kinda, need to figure out how to make it so that it's the main monitor and not just an extension of the laptop
<MooDoo> dwatkins: it's so i can use the tv to show my son computers :)
<dwatkins> excellent, MooDoo
<MooDoo> dwatkins: i'm hoping these niggles are just because it's natty and not a release version
<dwatkins> Yeah, quite likely, MooDoo
<Snomi> Is there any way to view/edit my ubuntu partitions from windows?
<MooDoo> Snomi: would fdisk do it?
<Snomi> I meant just to view the files
<MooDoo> Snomi: explore2fs
<MooDoo> snomi http://www.supriyadisw.net/2006/09/how-to-read-ubuntu-partition-on-windows  try this, i've not used it though
<Snomi> right ok thanks, I'll see how it goes
<Snomi> works ok
<MooDoo> Snomi: fab
<Snomi> uh oh
<Snomi> just crashed
<MooDoo> bummer
<Snomi> yeah
<Snomi> cant get at the big files
<Snomi> weird
<MooDoo> Snomi: i'm sure there are other apps, i just did a quick search on google
<Snomi> yeah sure
<shauno> http://doctormo.org/2011/04/11/narwhal-classic-is-fixed/    this is some good news this morning :)
<AlanBell> so in classic mode can you run regular compiz?
<shauno> now that I haven't tried
<JamesTait> Greetings, all!
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Classic mode is compiz. Classic mode (no effects) is metacity
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> hello s-fox
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: how are you on this most fine day?
<HazRPG> \o
<s-fox> I am okay thank you, stomping around ubuntu forums dealing with reports.   How are you?
<MooDoo> s-fox: ok, upgraded to natty last night, seeing how that plays out, taking it to camera club on thursday night to show them FOSS
<s-fox> Good luck!
<MooDoo> s-fox: ta :D
<MooDoo> s-fox: carry on stomping ;)
<davmor2> morning all
<s-fox> Hello davmor2
<s-fox> How're you?
<davmor2> s-fox: Good thanks you?
<s-fox> I am doing magnificently well thank you,  I am delighted to hear you are good.
<s-fox> :)
<davmor2> s-fox: Man you polite you know this is Ubuntu-uk right :D
<s-fox> My english isn't brilliant, but I manage.
<s-fox> :)
<JGJones> It's very good. There's English folks with worse "English" around :-)
<davmor2> Oi czajkowski how's you back kidda any better or worse than before?
<s-fox> JGJones,  English is my first language,  I just do not rate it that well. Laugh out loud.
<MooDoo> i wish people would talk proper like wot i does.
<JGJones> s-fox, English is my second language, but I used it first from birth.
<s-fox> yeah, learn to speak proper
<davmor2> MooDoo: R yam awlrite r kid?
<s-fox> JGJones,  Oh yes?  May I enquire what is your first language?
<MooDoo> davmor2: aye lad crackin.
<JGJones> s-fox, BSL which I first used at 11 yrs old.
<MooDoo> davmor2: i ope r czajkowski lass is alreet, she ben in pain latly ;)
<s-fox> Oh yes, I remember you mentioned that before!
 * BigRedS buys MooDoo a new keyboard :)
<HazRPG> MooDoo: hmm, that seems very northern lol
<JGJones> MooDoo, the way you're talking is just reminding me of Feersum Enjinn (Iain M Banks book)
<davmor2> MooDoo: A lorra lorra pain and wim ai ad nutin to do wid it
<MooDoo> HazRPG:used to live in yorkshire now in midlands :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're missing init from the end of your sentences
<HazRPG> MooDoo: ah
<bigcalm> JGJones: ug, some of the chapters in that book were painful to read
<JGJones> bigcalm, yup...took me forever to read that book.
<davmor2> MooDoo: I ai from dow sowff init would be more appropriate though that or upstart :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: by jove i actually understand what your saying old bean ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: We had some french exchange students we were showing around and they would talk to each other in french laugh and then tell us something in English that wasn't funny,  So me and my mate started talking black country to each other and laughing and telling them something not funny in return they seemed to get the message
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol awesome
<davmor2> MooDoo: of course this was after the 3rd degree on what language we were speaking :)
<issyl0> Morning, just.
<AlanBell> I was working in a factory in France doing a load of presentations to the staff, they kept interrupting me with side conversations in french
<davmor2> MooDoo: They refused to believe it was English :D
<MartijnVdS> hah, speaking about French and issyl0 appears :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: lol
<issyl0> Mmmm, French.
<AlanBell> I waited each time for them to finish and then carried on
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: Strange, eh?
<issyl0> I must have a radar.
<Tommeh> 'French' on highlight
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: don't all women? :)
<issyl0> Tommeh: No, I'm not that bad.
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: Hahaha!
<issyl0> Careful what you say now!
<AlanBell> I just loved the expressions on their faces when we went to a restaurant in the evening and I translated the menu for the other english people and ordered in French
<issyl0> AlanBell: \o/
<davmor2> issyl0: no just, there a good 24hours before morning ends it's the Interweb where it's always morning
<s-fox> Hey issyl0 .  it has been a while. Keeping well? :)
<issyl0> davmor2: Hmmm, with time zones etc, yeah, I suppose so.
<issyl0> s-fox: Very well thanks - you?
<s-fox> AlanBell,  Wonderful :D
<Tommeh> AlanBell: every dog has his day :0
<Tommeh> * :)
<MooDoo> any one from whitby aread here?
<MooDoo> s/area
<HazRPG> Man, I can't wait for DL2011 :D
<s-fox> issyl0,  Yes,  I am doing a lot better these days thank you :)
<issyl0> s-fox: Good.
<davmor2> MooDoo: You've been watching too much heartbeat haven't you ;)
<s-fox> whitby... whitby bay?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no i'm going on holiday up north in July, just wondered if anyone in the Whiby area fancied a beer if the misses lets me ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Still you've watched too much heartbeat :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: not in about 10 years ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: you mean it's stuck with you that long old chap?
<MooDoo> davmor2: 39 on friday :S
<davmor2> MooDoo: You and popey are both older than me it must just be that I feel older :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: and look it ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Hard life :D
<MooDoo> davmor2:  ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i just feel old ;) kids two and a half and already running rings around me ;)
<s-fox> MooDoo,  http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3519786/Boy-13-expelled-for-moustache.html
<s-fox>  /facepalm
<MooDoo> s-fox: well that's a joke isn't it
<davmor2> MooDoo: But that's because you are old :P  At least till the 9th of August then of course 39 will become a suitably apt age for a person to be.
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah not that long for you then :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: No
 * MooDoo points and laughs
<davmor2> MooDoo: Yeah but I get to point and laugh First and for longer Muhahahahahahahahahahahaha
<MooDoo> davmor2: dagnamit :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: you owe me a beer for being older sooner ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: That's fine but I can guarantee my pint of coke will be more expensive than your beer :P
<issyl0> davmor2: Mmm.  Non-alcoholic drinks are expensive in pubs/places where you're "supposed" to consume alcohol.  :-(
<davmor2> issyl0: This is the truth,  1.80 for a pint of larger 2.40 for a pint of pepsi
<issyl0> davmor2: Horrible.
<MartijnVdS> Who drinks an entire pint of pepsi?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: i do!
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: a pint isn't that much pepsi.
<MartijnVdS> it's more than half a litre!
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: they sell it by the pint in shops in the US
<issyl0> Well why doesn't a pint of beer seem as obseen?
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: everything is bigger in the US
<issyl0> Er.
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: More beer = more intoxicated :)
<issyl0> s/obseen/obscene/
<HazRPG> more coke/pepsi = more caffinated :D
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: caffeine--
<issyl0> Don't know what came over me then with that atrocious spelling!
<HazRPG> I've had better nights out full of sugar and caffeine, then I have wasted
<HazRPG> Question, what do I do when I have two byobu windows embedded into each other >_<
 * kazade just booted Ubuntu 5.04 in a VM :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: use the escape combination twice
<MooDoo> HazRPG: do the dance of seperation :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Ctrl+A in normal screen -> Ctrl+A A = screen-in-screen
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Ctrl+A A A = screen in screen in screen, etc
<bigcalm> Oh mu
<bigcalm> my
<MartijnVdS> Same with ssh
<MartijnVdS> <enter> ~ . = kill ssh,
<MartijnVdS> <enter> ~~ . = kill ssh in ssh
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<davmor2> kazade: you should of started with 4.10
<kazade> Heh, well 5.04 was the first one I used ;)
<kazade> reminiscing :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I tried that last year.. we've come a long way
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: thats not working :(
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: what's the "escape sequence" in byobu? did they change it from Ctrl+A?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: no, it should be Ctrl+A
<shauno> a bit late, but not everything's bigger in the US ;)  their pint is 16oz
<HazRPG> checked the help
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Ctrl+A A D
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that detaches the "inner" screen
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: in byobu I think it's something like F5
<HazRPG> F5 = reload
<davmor2> just hit the menu button it'll tell you
<shauno> ctrl+r is reload.  I wish things would stop using F5 :(
<davmor2> HazRPG: F6 I was close
<HazRPG> well hitting that just closes the byobu of my machine
<davmor2> shauno: you can change the defaults in byobu
<HazRPG> but I can't see to control the byobu of my ssh inside that :S
<HazRPG> hmm this is odd
<shauno> watch inception whilst high.  nested screens will start to make sense :)
<HazRPG> fixed i think
<HazRPG> yup yup, fixed :D
<HazRPG> i set my byobu to have "no keybinds"
<HazRPG> then closed the remote byobu with F6, then manually changed the byobu config back to f-keys
 * HazRPG notes to self: byobu in byobu is not good!
<kvarley> I'm running a virtual box install of ubuntu. How can I make a system tarball?
<BigRedS> HazRPG: I thought screen had a (reasonably) elegant way of deling with that, though I don't remember what it is; does byobu somehow do away with it?
<HazRPG> BigRedS: I'm not sure, i think it's more because i ssh'ed to my tower from my laptop, loaded up byobu to see usual stats at the bottom, then ssh'd to my vps to load up irssi... then closed with F6, came back to my machine to find that the terminal i had the ssh to my vps open had now got two byobu's!
<HazRPG> so i think i confused it >_< lol
<shauno> more likely it confused you.  it all makes perfect sense to the software :)
<HazRPG> well yeah :P
<HazRPG> right, shall I make a video on how to do irssi window splits, or shall I just write about it...
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Login Screen Mockups - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/login-screen-mockups/
<shauno> what a miserable day.  got a snarky email asking if there was a good reason I have several hundred open tickets and everyone else has 1 or 2 :/
<balor> czajkowski: Is irc.linux.ie down?
<ali1234> "because u suck"
<shauno> because I don't look at them.  they're evil.
<MooDoo> shauno: work harder ;)
<shauno> MooDoo: oh I work.  apparently I'm meant to clean up after myself too
<ali1234> open more tickets
<HazRPG> shauno: ticket: Everyone else has less tickets than me, get it fixed batman!
<shauno> actually.  I wonder if they'd do that.  if I asked them to just set all my records to closed/cancelled/customer cancelled
<HazRPG> shauno: you could just to an rm -rf shauno-tickets
<shauno> heh.  if only it was that easy
<shauno> oracle/siebel is hideous
<HazRPG> shauno: i know :( i used it at uni :/
<shauno> and knowing us, we're probably standardised on something 5 years old
<shauno> I mean, we're still on Notes 6.5 (circa 2004)
<HazRPG> wow, i've seeded wiki for a ratio of 1.72
<HazRPG> thats a lot of data!
<shauno> anyhow.  enough grumping.  moar spending the next 3 hours ticking boxes!
<HazRPG> shauno: guessing no "select all" boxes?
 * davmor2 happily bobbing away to absolute 80's in it's full ogg glory
<MooDoo> davmor2: put that axel f ogg down
<davmor2> MooDoo: no Axel f yet currently on Sanctify yourself by simple minds
<MooDoo> cool :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Dexy now with Gino
<HazRPG> everyone smile for the camera!
<HazRPG> Taking a quick screen-cap of irssi.
<dogmatic69> :)
<davmor2> :P
<Martiini> anyone use Twitter ??
<davmor2> Martiini: yes thanks
<Martiini> davmor2:  may I add you to my twitter account?
<HazRPG> guessing everyone else is shy for the camera then :P
<HazRPG> also, yeah I use twitter too
<ali1234> hmm every time i like a video on youtube it goes on my twitter twice
<HazRPG> heh, last.fm knows me too well :)
<ali1234> maybe its because i turned on "post everything i do" on every stupid social site i signed up for
<HazRPG> ali1234: erm, depends... if you favourite it and also "like" it too, it'll post it twice
<ali1234> i don't favourite on youtube, i don't even know how since they redesigned it
<HazRPG> i noticed that on facebook, so I set it to only send stuff that I "like" or "upload"
<ali1234> yeah it all goes to facebook too
<ali1234> i think it's facebook forwarding it on to twitter
<ali1234> or maybe it's buzz
<shauno> I don't link accounts like that.  it's evil :/
<ali1234> everything goes there as well
<HazRPG> shauno: why not?
<ali1234> i turned it all on cos i hate all those sites and i'm trying to fill them with crap
<ali1234> i never post anything on any of them
<hamitron> :)
<shauno> HazRPG: there's enough drivel on twitter already :)
<hamitron> hate is a strong word ;)
<ali1234> so my twitter is just a list of stupid funny videos and other nonsense like that
<HazRPG> ali1234: my facebook is kinda like that
<Martiini> its not possible to contact someone on twitter .. unless they follow you, correct?
<ali1234> i thin kyou just write @ followed by their name and they see it
<hamitron> I was given a note to tweet someone once, so I assume it is possible Martiini
<Martiini> ali1234: @ - means "reply" ???
<ali1234> it just means @
<ali1234> like "i'm tweeting @ u lol"
<ali1234> there's no guarantee anyone will see it
<ali1234> i don't think anyone actually *reads* twitter
<Martiini> so .. @"twitter-name" makes it visible or not ?? nobody will actually see my messages in any case .. or do they ?
<hamitron> I know a few who follow everything said on it :/
<Martiini> I read everything on Twitter yesterday
<Martiini> the whole thing
<ali1234> i don't understand how you are supposed to follow a conversation between two people
<ali1234> all i ever see is people saying "@jrandomguy yeah lol"
<Martiini> followers see retweets
<gord> ali1234, you use a client that allows you to see the conversation
<ali1234> such as what?
<hamitron> @ ali1234: I 'ave an itch
<gord> twidroid on my phone does it, as does the web version
<hamitron> gord, kinda like something that parses logs?
<Martiini> so .. is it possible to contact someone who is not following you on twitter
<ali1234> how do i use a twitter client when someone gives me a http url to a random tweet?
<Martiini> browser ?
<gord> how do you follow any conversation when someone only gives you one sentence spoken by one side of the conversation?
<ali1234> you can't
<ali1234> which is the whole problem
<Martiini> theyre hidden
<Martiini> its a community
<gord> the problem is that people are giving you random http urls
<Martiini> so .. how do I contact someone in a twitter cluster or community ??
<ali1234> stalk them until you find out their email address, then email them
<hamitron> people read their emails? ;)
<daubers> ali1234: Always with the stalking!
<Martiini> f*ck .. there is no way getting to them .. unless I have a phonenumber
<Martiini> neither email, twitter ..
<ali1234> hamitron: i do
<hamitron> ali1234: I fel soooo ashamed ;)
<hamitron> feel*
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> is gnome 3 easy to use?
<hamitron> looks totally alien to me
<dutchie> it is supposedly Made Of Easy
<davmor2> Martiini: Feel free davmor2 shockingly :)
<Martiini> what
<Martiini> what do you mean davmor2 shockingly
<Martiini> blehh
<Martiini> no idea what you people talk about
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I agree that we have come a long way, although I still think that the desktop background ground to a halt at hardy heron
<davmor2> Martiini: I was at lunch before that you asked if you could add your twitter account.
<hamitron> davmor2's twit account is "davmor2"!!!! :s
<davmor2> I'm letting you know what my twitter account details were
<Martiini> so that was a tweet there ?
<Martiini> davmor2 , is it ok to add you to my twitter account .. temporarily ?
<Martiini> DAve Morley ?
<davmor2> Martiini: That's me
<Martiini> Im following You on twitter now
<Martiini> davmor2: so .. how would I ask you on twitter ..  if Jimmy Page or Robert Plant live in Wolverhampton
<HazRPG> ali1234: clearly you don't know how to use twitter, if your on the webpage, click on the /tweet/ that says for example "yeah lol" and it'll show you what the previous guy said, and what was said after and you can follow it through
<davmor2> Martiini: all request that are directed start @<username> so it would be @davmor2 hello world test as an example
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/twitter.png
<Martiini> davmor2: I must answer a tweet though?
<ali1234> HazRPG: i see
<shauno> you don't get that interface if you follow a direct link
<HazRPG> shauno: how do you even send a direct link :S
<hamitron> does tweetering actually do anything useful? :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: can be good for getting info an responses fast
<Martiini> willy1977: bacame younger by a year ?
<shauno> HazRPG: the least intuitive UI either.  click on timestamps :)
<shauno> eg, to pick on poppy again, http://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/57379851102990336
<shauno> if you click the '3 hours ago' on the top message, you'll get take to that one.  if it's a rambling convo, you can follow it all the way back like that.  but only backwards.
<ali1234> shauno: when i click that i get the context oddly enough
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, but for a direct link like that, it does show previous convos... or it does here
<ali1234> i guess they must be working on it
<davmor2> Martiini: you should see a tweet from me now that mentions you so it should flag you to say you have been mentioned
<Martiini> davmor2: this getting complicated ..
<shauno> you do, but you only see 'the previous message'.  you can't get a full convo like that :/
<hamitron> is there not software to grab all previous messages?
<davmor2> Martiini: you can now choose to reply and send something back
<shauno> hamitron: seems most clients do it.  and most people who are barely interested (if at all) in twitter don't use clients :)
<Martiini> davmor2: so .. Im unable to tweet You unless you follow me .. but .. I can reply to your "tweets"
<Martiini> davmor2: .. and .. replied tweets become visible to everyone ??
<Martiini> correct ?
<davmor2> Martiini: no!  I can't see your tweets unless I follow you.  You can put @whoever in any tweet.  If you reply to my tweet it is visible however private messages aren't
<shauno> can't resize it from my phone, but this is how convo appear in my client.  makes a bit more sense than the webpage :)  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Photo%20Apr%2011%2C%2014%2003%2021.jpg
<shauno> if the site could do that with a convo, it'd make a lot more sense
<dwatkins> like that autocorrect website?
<dwatkins> all tweets are visible to everyone apart from Direct Messages, Martiini - i.e. be careful what you say, and what information you give out on twitter.
<HazRPG> shauno: hmm, yeah I think my phone's twitter does similar!
<Martiini> dwatkins: so .. tweets mentioning strangers whom I follow .., will become public to ANYONE who reads that public twitter page ???
<AlanBell> no
<Martiini> and .. anything I post into twitter .. becomes public ?? .. lets say my banking details .. phonenumbers .. etc
<AlanBell> dwatkins: you can set your tweets to not be public
<shauno> suffice to say, you don't tweet your bank details :)
<AlanBell> I wouldn't advise tweeting your bank details
<HazRPG> Martiini: yeah, basically if you do @Someone, <some text here>... it will show up to ANYONE... but if you do a direct message (click messaging at the top, where it says "Home, Profile, Messages, Who To Follow" section... then it will send it to ONLY the person you put down
<hamitron> just typing bank details can be dodgy :/
<shauno> (doesn't turn out to be a huge problem, UK banks avoid twitter like the plague because it conflicts with some arcane laws)
<BigRedS> Well, you'd not tweet anything you wouldn't put on any other website, really
<davmor2> Martiini: You should never give out those details on twitter fullstop.  If you need to give your number to a friend then direct message them,  it's more like an sms text on a phone then ie point to point rather than general
<davmor2> but neve rbank details
<Martiini> ok .. Yea, Im aware .. not posting banking details ..e tc
<shauno> my best advice would be to follow a few people you know, and just follow along.  you'll pick up conventions by example pretty quickly
<Martiini> so .. can I contact random people I find on twitter ??
<HazRPG> Martiini: if you really wanted to yeah
<Martiini> none of my contacts are on twitter ..
<Martiini> all twitter accounts .. are either american .. companies, advertisers ..
<Martiini> Im just surfing twitter here
<davmor2> Martiini: Follow popey you'll soon pick up what to do :)
<hamitron> talk a load of rubbish? ;)
<AlanBell> Martiini: do you have a twitter account yet?
<Martiini> AlanBell:  Ido
<davmor2> AlanBell: he does
<Martiini> and Im following .. some random strangers .. I found on internet
<Martiini> there is actually a reason .. why ..
<Martiini> I figured .. I can learn some american social english .. by stalking people on twitter
<Martiini> since I live in northern europe .. and have no contact with americans
<Martiini> but its all bullshit .. twitter
<Martiini> davmor2: myrtti a finnish girl who work for Ubuntu, right ?
<davmor2> Martiini: that's cause you need to follow people rather than randoms.  Otherwise you'll just get spam effectively.
<davmor2> Martiini: Myrtti is on this channel you can ask her yourself :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Aha touchy
<Martiini> davmor2: so .. what do I text about on twitter now .. kinda .. have nothing to text about
<MooDoo> davmor2: ?
<Martiini> davmor2: I have been to Wolverhampton , btw
<AlanBell> having nothing to say never stopped anyone else using twitter
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's it my day just goes down hill from here the pinnacle has been reached unless the next 80's song is betterer still :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: paul hardcastle nnnnnnnnnnnn nineteen
<Martiini> davmor2: .. so .. my tweets so up only on YOUR wall .. since you are following me ??
<Martiini> *show up*
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm still enjoying AHA currently
<MooDoo> davmor2: take on me?
<davmor2> Martiini: Yeap but I don't get flagged about it as such unless you use mention
<davmor2> MooDoo: Touchy
<MooDoo> davmor2: ah i get you, you weren't called me touchy .... pmsl :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: take on me would just complete the repertoire
<davmor2> MooDoo: you muppet
<MooDoo> davmor2: pah!
<davmor2> MooDoo: Do keep up old chap :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm nearly 39 the brain cells are fading
<davmor2> MooDoo: no that the alcohol abuse it's received over the years
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh yeah.......
<MooDoo> quite fancy a snooze now to be honest :)
<daubers> 30%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Blimey Agencies are cheeky gets
<davmor2> MooDoo: afternoon nap time :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i wish lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: It got better specials Ghost Town
<MooDoo> oooooo
<ali1234> hmmmm
<dwatkins> daubers: what kind of agency?
<Azelphur> hmm, I bought a microsd card that went faulty off amazon within it's warranty period, the company said send it back, I sent it back, it's been over a month now, and 10 days since I sent them a message what's going on
<Azelphur> how can I escalate this?
<MartijnVdS> "the company" being Amazon or the manufacturer?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: a retailer, WS_Inspire
<MartijnVdS> but you bought it off amazon?
<Azelphur> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/seller/at-a-glance.html?ie=UTF8&seller=A388NQR4J28IX
<Azelphur> yes
<czajkowski> balor: cant get onto irc.linux.ie so I assume so
<czajkowski> davmor2: dont ask
<czajkowski> MooDoo: same goes for you
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I don't trust non-amazon sellers on Amazon for that reason
<davmor2> MooDoo: Better still Jam going underground ah happy days
<ali1234> ring them up
<MooDoo> davmor2: ooooo :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: the card has 1 year manufacturer warranty and I'm supposed to communicate with the reseller for that to be forfilled
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, that's my next step
<davmor2> czajkowski: ah come on you know I'm gonna ask now what's happen kiddo?
<daubers> dwatkins: recruitment agency
<ali1234> Azelphur: personally i never buy stuff from people who say things like "restocking charge of 5%"
<ali1234> or "We will not replace the item without the manufacturers support."
<ali1234> because that's BS
<czajkowski> I do not understand the UK health system
<Azelphur> :p
<dwatkins> daubers: ouch
<MooDoo> czajkowski: what's happened now?
<czajkowski> just spent 3 hours in A&E where they won't refer me to A) a specalist or B) have an xray done
<davmor2> czajkowski: What?
<czajkowski> no I need to go back to GP to get referred to A) specalist and B) x-ray at a hospital
<MooDoo> czajkowski: welcome to our sucky world :(
<daubers> czajkowski: Unless it's life threatening A&E won't. You need your GP to sign that off
<daubers> czajkowski: Unless you get private medical, then you pay and get what you want more or less
<czajkowski> mind boggling stupid
<davmor2> czajkowski: welcome to the nhs
<willy_1977> and that is supposed to save money?
<daubers> czajkowski: It makes a small kind of sense. A&E need those resources free for people who are in a life threatening situation
<davmor2> willy1977: it's saves the hospital huge amounts
<willy_1977> davmor2: quite.
<willy_1977> at least we have an NHS...yes it needs some work but...it  could be similar to other countries where you're just left out there if you have no insurance...
<czajkowski> but they are just going to have to refer me back to the hospital to have a scan
<daubers> czajkowski: Having said that, the wifes cousin was rushed into Hospital friday morning with a slipped disc, was x-rayed and what not within a couple of hours, had the disk removed and an artificial one put in within 24 hours and is probably going to be discharged tomorrow or wednesday
<czajkowski> so two trips
<czajkowski> danfish: ping
<Azelphur> so speaking of my impending phone call, has anyone got call recording working on android?
<ali1234> why are oyu so obsessed with recording phone calls?
<dwatkins> Recording phone calls should be easy, surely?
<Azelphur> ali1234: because I'm about to call a company that's been ignoring me for the past month via email?
<ali1234> if you want something legally binding write them a letter and send it registered
<Azelphur> so onces gotta assume hostility
<ali1234> recorded phone calls are not worth jack
<Martiini> ali1234: on e71 .. start recorder , make phonecall
<dwatkins> What kind of company is it, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: an amazon retailer
<dwatkins> Azelphur: can you complain to Amazon?
<Azelphur> dwatkins: that'd be my next port of call after phoning him and recording it :P
<dwatkins> Azelphur: I would just forward the e-mails to Amazon, a phonecall may not be the best way.
<Azelphur> I guess
<Azelphur> dwatkins: a call doesn't hurt, though
<dwatkins> Azelphur: it's worth a try, perhaps their e-mail address is broken some how, just be aware that they may try to get you to agree to things in the call which may result in you wishing later on that you had had more time to decide
<dwatkins> i.e. "so this is resolved then?" kinda questions
<Azelphur> :p
<Azelphur> all I want is a partial refund or replacement
<Azelphur> anything less than that is a quick and easy no
<dwatkins> what about credit with their store?
<Azelphur> no
<dwatkins> what about they send you something else similar?
<Azelphur> if it's of the same size and class that's fine
<dwatkins> what about if they insist you send in the item for examination by their testing department?
<Azelphur> I already did send them the item, they stole it
<davmor2> Azelphur: you can contact amazon and say your having issues contacting their retailer
<Azelphur> I mailed them saying it was broken, they said send it in, I sent it in, nothing.
<dwatkins> ah I see, did you send it recorded delivery, Azelphur?
<Azelphur> no :(
<Azelphur> probably should have.
<dwatkins> I wouldn't necessarily have done so, especially for a small item
<dwatkins> what are we talking about here, something small or large and expensive?
<Azelphur> a microsd card, a Â£60 one
<dwatkins> ok, worth persuing, clearly
<Azelphur> bought a big fast one for my phone
<willy_1977> hummmm proof of posting?
<dwatkins> so you sent it in, they havn't replied to your "now what?" e-mails
<Azelphur> dwatkins: pretty much yea
<Azelphur> and it's been well over a month since I sent it in, and 10 days since now what
<hamitron> :/
<dwatkins> give them a call to check it's not just an administrative error, but be prepared for them to fob you off and then have to take it to Amazon
<willy_1977> :/ just thinking that sometimes the post office give you that receipt thing that may help the case...
<Azelphur> dwatkins: indeed
<dwatkins> clearly it might just be they have had e-mail problems, but you never know, I give them the benefit of the doubt at first, but there are some gits in this world sadly
<Azelphur> of course
<hamitron> Azelphur: story with a happy ending... I got my PS1 controller to USB adapter today :)
<Azelphur> :D
<hamitron> wish i had got the one with 2 ports now
<hamitron> my single port device is showing up as 2 controllers
<hamitron> :/
<seeker> czajkowski: WRT scans, there are probably only a certain number of slots per day, and every emergency one they put through delays the people who have made appointments, so they would be under pressure from other departments to not give people scans on the spot of it isn't an emergency. There is probably also an issue of whose budget the cost of the scan comes out of ( at a guess )
 * seeker notices the cps have declined to bring a case against BT wrt Pho
<seeker> * form
<seeker> *phorm
<MooDoo> seeker: yup was in the papers last week
<seeker> Just saw it on the BBC
<andylockran> anyone got experience with javaxcomm on windows?
<andylockran> need to replace it with rxtx
<andylockran> and it's not looking like a 5 minute job
<popey> afternoon all
<MooDoo> hiya popey
<directhex> pfft, java
<seeker> Lo popey
<ali1234> andylockran: sounds pretty easy to me, according to the faq they both use the same api even
<daubers> popey: All signed up?
<popey> daubers: signed up?
<bigcalm> Selling your soul to the Debil
<daubers> popey: Oggcampy-ness :) you said you'd announce it once contracts where signed, and then tweeted about announcements today/tomorrow :)
 * bigcalm waits for something to be announced (or not) on uupc. It's the only way to be sure
<daubers> see 2, assume 1 :)
<popey> listen to linux outlaws live tonight
<popey> (or us tomorrow)
<daubers> heh, was going to save this weeks UUPC for the 3 hour drive to norfolk on Friday
<bigcalm> "FYI Iain will be taking technical lead" - words I rarely like to see in an email :|
<daubers> It'll be all over the internet tomorrow morning I suppose, so shall wait till then
<daubers> _bored_ of compiling stuff now
<Azelphur> willy_1977: they had a database fart and lost my address, apparently they are sending my replacement out today! :)
<davmor2> Azelphur: that's the story they were really hoping you forgot :D
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> Azelphur: what temp does your chipset run at?
<Azelphur> which one?
<hamitron> the beasty one
<hamitron> LGA1166
<Azelphur> 1366 :P
<hamitron> 1 char!
<hamitron> nearly ;)
<Azelphur> with all cores at 100% on the stock cooler, I stopped it at 94C
<hamitron> the chipset?
<Azelphur> oh, I dunno about the chipset
<Azelphur> the processor goes to 94
<seeker> Have you thought of actually attaching the cooler?
<hamitron> I get upset when my cpu hits 35
<hamitron> :D
<seeker> Azelphur: Which processor? And what overclock?
<Azelphur> seeker i7 950, no overclock \o/
<seeker> O.o
<seeker> Seriously, connect the fan and heatsink
<hamitron> hehe
<seeker> Or clear out the dust
<Azelphur> I probably put a bit too much thermal paste on since it was my first time, so it might be a bit inefficient at dissipating heat
<hamitron> re-seat it then :/
<Azelphur> I'm just going easy on it for 5 minutes, I've got a huge water cooling kit next to me :P
<Azelphur> Then I get to play overclock :)
<seeker> I spent Â£60 on a heatsink/fan and have an i7 920 @ 4Ghz
<hamitron> but my original question is, what is a good temp for a chipset?
<seeker> Running at ~40c normally
<seeker> And up to 60 under heavy load
<hamitron> so 46 C is high?
<seeker> No idea hamitron
<seeker> Those numbers are my CPU figures.
<hamitron> my cpu hits 35 C under max load
<seeker> Why are you worried about chipset temps?
<hamitron> seeker: don't wanna fry it
<hamitron> :)
<andatche> these hp microservers really are ftw
<hamitron> not got any case fans atm
<hamitron> just the cpu fan and psu fan
<andatche> stuffed with 4 x 1TB disks and 8GB ram they are perfect low-power vm hosts :)
<seeker> Why not?
<hamitron> it was making too much noise
<hamitron> gonna get another sometime
<seeker> Buy a low noise 12cm for about Â£5
<hamitron> but it just seems a little weird, the chipset getting hotter than the chipset....
<hamitron> chipset hotter than the cpu, I mean
<seeker> Quick google suggests under 60c
<dwatkins> depends on the component, it's probably best to keep most components under 60 degrees though
<hamitron> I will get a fan sure :) just the weather has got hotter faster than i had hoped
<hamitron> these figures are scarry, I used to set my comp to shutdown if the cpu hit 40 C
<Azelphur> Anyone know any good tricks for fixing loads of background noise on a headset? :p
<seeker> I7s can get up to close to 100c without dying instantly
<MooDoo> Azelphur: get a new headset [before any one else says it] ;)
<Azelphur> When using mumble voice activation, my voice is only slightly louder than the background noise, if I move at all, mumble voice activation goes off
<Azelphur> haha :D
<Azelphur> I only just bought this one, reviews said it was supposed to be good :(
<hamitron> it is all your fans.....
<hamitron> helicopter in the background
<Azelphur> hamitron: they arn't running atm xD
<hamitron> ah :)
<hamitron> do you plug them in in the front of your comp?
<davmor2> Azelphur: use push to talk
<Azelphur> NEVER.
<hamitron> *effort of pushing a button*
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> talk louder
<dwatkins> don't talk?
<Azelphur> hamitron: the entire point of mumble is that your meant to have an alternate method of communication leaving your hands free to play :p
<Azelphur> it's near pointless if you have to press more buttons
<shauno> that just sounds wrong
<Azelphur> (although granted it's less buttons than typing)
 * hamitron was thinking "play with what"
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> lol
<dwatkins> I used to use mumble when playing CS and l4d2, it was much easier to have a push-to-talk button than force everyone to hear me cursing zombies and other players as they shot me ;)
<hamitron> haha dwatkins
<Azelphur> dwatkins: I don't talk to myself :P
<shauno> I always use ptt.  I talk to myself.  a lot.  and make my own sound effects for everything.  it's almost embarrassing to describe, let alone hear.
<hamitron> you never shout at someone in a game, through your monitor?
<BigRedS> hah, yeah. I once had someone play back to me the sounds of me gaming. It was a bit embarrasing
<hamitron> :D
<Azelphur> hamitron: not unless they are on mumble and I want to shout at them :p
<hamitron> I once got knocked off on lap 44 or 45 by a wrecker.... I was sooooooo mad
<hamitron> of 45*
<shauno> one of TS or vent, I don't remember which, let me use Fn for push to talk.  that was perfect.
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> VOX is dangerous
<seeker> andatche: Those look very interesting
<dwatkins> shauno: Fn as in the modifier on some keyboards?
<shauno> exactly
<hamitron> I have a "push to talk" button on my skype keyboard ;)
<andatche> seeker: they're excellent
<shauno> as long as I'm not using the cursor keys, I can use that for ptt without breaking anything
<andatche> especially for Â£140!!
<KIDEL> sorry guys im new to this is there anyway i can find a chat room where people are from my area???
<shauno> (or the function keys :)
<MooDoo> KIDEL: ubuntu chat room?
<Azelphur> KIDEL: yea, it's called facebook
<hamitron> Azelphur: :-o not facebook!
<KIDEL> fb aint a chatroom
<KIDEL> asshole
<hamitron> well said o//
<SuperMatt> careful now
<KIDEL> no need man is there only askin as I say just new to this
<shauno> KIDEL: most of irc only breaks down as far as per-country, if at all.  for linux specifically, you'd do worse than to look up your local LUG and see if they have a channel somewhere
<Azelphur> KIDEL: IRC is usually reserved for subjects rather than locations, you're lucky to find country specific channels, let alone region :)
<KIDEL> but there is always one who has to make hissellf feel good
<KIDEL> ok thanks for ur help guys
<shauno> most likely he was just trying to be funny :)
<KIDEL> yeah I know
<seeker> andatche: Very very tempted to try one as a mythtv backend
<seeker> Only question is whether the processor has enough grunt for it
<andatche> perhaps not, not sure
<ali1234> depends what tuner you use
<andatche> the cpu is a little bit faster than the dual core atom a330 I have in another box
<seeker> Atoms aren't really powerful enough
<andatche> build quality is excellent though, very surprised at the price
<shauno> I got handed a freebie via c3 800 today :/  not sure what it's gonna be good for yet
<andatche> doorstop? ;)
<seeker> Apparently they cause playback to stutter when the scheduler runs
<hamitron> shauno: I have 3
<ali1234> you can run mythbackend on a 700mhz cpu if you using dvb tuners
<hamitron> very good for jukebox systems
<ali1234> because it takes almost no cpu at all
<seeker> ali1234: It's the commflag and scheduling that takes CPU
<ali1234> commflag doesn't work anyway
<andatche> seeker: they're not too woeful, can do some benchmarks if you're interested?
<ali1234> by "doesn't work" i mean it never actually runs
<shauno> hamitron: thinking I may be able to find something nerdy for it to do, as it has dual nics
<hamitron> shauno: nice :D
<shauno> it's a pull from an old rack monitoring unit.  embedded board, ide, 256Mb ram (soldered), two nics, two serial ports, two usb ports - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/Photo%20Apr%2011%2C%2015%2030%2038.jpg
<hamitron> shauno: main problem I have had is, mine are the earlier ones that are only i586
<shauno> apparently needs a bios flash to get past the vendor's firmware, and a ps2 keyboard.  no idea where on earth you'd find those anymore :/
<hamitron> that is actually really cool
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> hmm :/
<hamitron> all my keyboards are ps2 ;/
<seeker> ali1234: Runs fine for me
<shauno> (the flash is the easy bit.  no local museums to borrow a ps2 keyboard from tho)
<seeker> andatche: I'll just search for benchmarks for the processor
<andatche> fair 'nuff
<hamitron> shauno: get one of them multi-coloured keyboards off ebay for 10 quid :)
<shauno> nooo
<hamitron> or a converter for your usb keyboard
<shauno> I'm not gonna buy a keyboard, use it for an afternoon and then bin it :/
<hamitron> (if it is ps2 compatible)
<hamitron> Â£1.50
<shauno> not sure mine would be.  I've one usb, one bluetooth, both apple
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> using old junk is so much easier, when everything else you have is old junk :D
<hamitron> not sure that 200MHz SIS cpu comp was a good idea though
<shauno> I'm half tempted to cart it off down to the local hackerspace next time they have a 'social night'.  they're bound to have something
<shauno> only need it long enough to flash the bios, then I can go back to usb
<hamitron> I'm sure a ps2 keyboard would be a good investment ;)
<hamitron> "just in case"....
<shauno> that's the worst reason to buy something :(
<andatche> shauno: could do it using a serial console?
<shauno> andatche: not until I get the vendor's bios off it :/
<hamitron> maybe try a neighbour?
<shauno> (I know how far they've got it tied up.  the vendor's my employer)
<hamitron> "hey Mac, can i borrow the old rubbish keyboard off your old rubbish comp?"
<shauno> they've just got two laptops.  students :)
<hamitron> next house along....
<hamitron> haha
<shauno> I don't know the people 2 hours along :/
<hamitron> disappointed in you shauno, I expected you to hoard junk like me.... *sigh*
<shauno> I used to.  until I left the UK with all my worldly goods packed within what the airline would call one suitcase
<hamitron> I'm only just considering throwing 2 AT keyboards out :/
<andatche> heh, $gf keeps making me throw old computing stuff away
<hamitron> ah, yeh
<BigRedS> I don't think I could cope with that...
<andatche> have to fight for anything i want to keep!
<shauno> it's actually fantastically liberating.  did the same when I moved to ireland too
<shauno> except I wised up and got a laptop this time :)
<hamitron> tbh, it would do me good, having to move and dump the stuff I don't really need
<shauno> the first time I took a tower pc, padded the inside of the tower with books, and the outside with enough clothes to stop it moving
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> I got 19 towers :/
<shauno> then took my harddrives in my carry-on, because I don't trust ramp monkeys.
<hamitron> :\
<BigRedS> yeah, I can see it being great *after* doing it
<hamitron> but how do you decide what to take?
<shauno> actually throwing 20 years of trash away isn't a whole lot of fun
<hamitron> and wtf you do with stuff you don't take?
<shauno> being able to move around without carting 20 years of trash behind you is awesome
<shauno> hamitron: CDs/LPs are in a box at my father's house.  my brother stole my clothes.  I sold the books I couldn't fit.
<hamitron> any spare comps?
<shauno> nothing worth losing sleep over.  one of those ruddy aweful cerleron 300's, and a 486
<hamitron> geez, it is scarey, I got 2 motorbikes and 2 drum kits too :(
<hamitron> I guess I could throw away all my comps without much of a thought
<hamitron> I'd prob buy 2 external hdd and store data on them
<directhex> how many of them do you turn on on a monthly basis?
<hamitron> comps?
<directhex> yes
<hamitron> 16 or 17
<directhex> ._.
<directhex> yet i'm the environment hater with my i7?
<hamitron> got a few spares
<hamitron> yes
<hamitron> as I don't turn them all on at once
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> most of these machines are recycled also
<hamitron> they'd of gone to landfill otherwise
<shauno> tbh it sounds like they've just gone to a well-curated landfill :p
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> cheek ;/
<shauno> like an old folk's home for computers
<shauno> :)
<hamitron> there is no point in buying atom comps, to go in the garage
<HazRPG> does this site work for anyone else:
<HazRPG> http://www.screenjelly.com/
<czajkowski> balor: it's back now
<shauno> HazRPG: doesn't work here.  loads, but says missing plugin
<HazRPG> shauno: java is the missing plugin
<serial_> rtfFF
<ali1234> so what's new in banshee 2.0? is it possible to listen to an mp3 without maxing two cores yet?
<shauno> ooh, no java seems to work.  I clicked demo, and don't have flash
<directhex> filing bugs is hard! moaning on irc is easy!
<hamitron> ali1234: that is a feature
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> directhex: i filed the "banshee uses too much CPU" bug on launchpad
<hamitron> "heats up the room using the power of banshee"
<ali1234> directhex: but continue to use procedure to avoid doing any actual work
<directhex> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/banshee-suckth-the-big-one-or-how-to-correctly-file-a-bug-and-stop-worrying/
<directhex> ali1234, if it were a general bug, I might have noticed it when, y'know, playing MP3s
<ali1234> bug 396268
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 396268 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Banshee uses too much CPU" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396268
<hamitron> bbl, work calls
<directhex> ali1234, you have BPM detection enabled?
<ali1234> no
<HazRPG> hmm, why does "java -version" report that its "1.6.0_20" when the one in the repo should be "1.6.0_24"
<BigRedS> 'cause you're not up to date?
<brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
<BigRedS> or you've a few javas installed. Java's nice and annoying like that
<HazRPG> hmm
<BigRedS> as in, OpenJDK vs Sun
<serial_> -sun +oracle
<BigRedS> I just thought of that, when the package will change names
<BigRedS> I think I'm going to start a repo that just has Sun products with the Oracle branding removed...
<HazRPG> hmm, well I need OpenJDK for LibreOffice
<BigRedS> does libreoffice dislike Sun?
<serial_> sun got bought out before libre came out...
<HazRPG> but I'm sure I've configured Sun/Oracle java as default
<BigRedS> what does 'which java' say?
<HazRPG> /usr/bin/java
<BigRedS> serial_: yeah, but IO'd still expect libre to be written for Sun Java rather than OpenJDK, if it cared at all?
<BigRedS> oh yeah, you need 'ls -l `which java`' 'cause /usr/bin/java's a symlink
<BigRedS> and that might point at another symlink, I think.
<BigRedS> it's been a while since I entertained anything other than Sun/Oracle Java, so this might be different now...
<HazRPG> BigRedS: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 2011-03-19 05:02 /usr/bin/java -> /etc/alternatives/java
<BigRedS> ah yeah, follow the symlink trail to see where it goes
<davmor2> MooDoo: the music just gets better Fade to Grey Visage
<BigRedS> or do update-java-alternatives to see which javas your system thinks you have
<BigRedS> (with -l)
<BigRedS> so 'update-java-alternatives -l'
<BigRedS> oooh, and I have openjdk on here!
<davmor2> or install gnome-alternatives iirc and do it in a nice gui :D
<HazRPG> well it thinks I have openjdk and java-6-sun 63
<BigRedS> at a guess, whichever java's your current 'alternative' isn't the one for which you were checking the package version
<serial_> sorry about that peeps, xchat crashed
<BigRedS> oooh, hometime apparently
<HazRPG> that's what I find weird though
<HazRPG> I've disabled the plugin inside chrome for IceT
<HazRPG> IceTea*
<HazRPG> so it *should* be using sun-jre
<MartijnVdS> sun-jre *shudder*
<serial_> sun-java6-plugin :)
<HazRPG> sorry yeah :P
<BigRedS> what's wrong with sun-jre? as jre's go...
<serial_> nothing, plugin mainly for applets and jnlp
<serial_> etc
<BigRedS> that was more at MartijnVdS's shudder :)
<directhex> BigRedS, proprietary evil
<serial_> :p
<BigRedS> directhex: like mono? :)
<BigRedS> java, in general, I view as an evil of sorts. But sun's seems to cause me less work than OpenJDK
<directhex> BigRedS, mono has source. sun java doesn't. openjdk is mostly sun java, but not entirely
<ali1234> as far as i'm concerned, jana, .net and flash are all in the same category
<ali1234> they're all used to make inefficient bloated software, and they all have "mostly but not entirely" free software versions
<ali1234> ok i have a trivial testcase demonstrating banshee cpu usage, in fact i made it so bad that it's completely frozen the UI as well
<ali1234> looks like a found a memory leak too
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Ubuntu App Developers Week - http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4406
<ali1234> bug 757740
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 757740 in banshee (Ubuntu) "Banshee crashes on very short mp3s" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757740
<HazRPG> you'd think with YouTube's massive server farm, it'd be able to transcode a video pretty quick :P
<ali1234> it can
<ali1234> you know they get 35 hours of video every minute right?
<HazRPG> yup
<HazRPG> ali1234: there's a point, what do you use to create videos with and what do you save them as?
<nperry> Anyone know if the UGR team have an irc channel?
<ali1234> HazRPG: i use all kinds of things...
<HazRPG> I just tried RecordItNow -- but its KDE based, and well it took forever to do anything with
<ali1234> i use gtkrecordmydesktop
<ali1234> i use ffmpeg to make h264
<ali1234> and i use pitivi sometimes if i need to edit
<ali1234> again, to h264
<ali1234> nothing else seems to work on youtube
<ali1234> sometimes ogg will work but it's hit and miss
<HazRPG> I use pitivi for editing too
<HazRPG> ali1234: hmm, so my ogv might just be scrambled then :(?
<ali1234> yeah probably
<ali1234> do you get sound and green picture?>
<HazRPG> not sure, still processing
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP_qgPpUFJA
<ali1234> did you see a preview while uploading?
<ali1234> it will probably say that forever
<HazRPG> why?
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> that's just what happens
<HazRPG> yeah, it looks like someone had change the picture to ///// aspect for some reason
<HazRPG> on the preview during upload
<ali1234> /////
<ali1234> ?
<HazRPG> yeah, as if someone had put a filter on it to change the image from   |  (or fixed, normal view), to a  /  (everything titled to the right and stretched out)
<HazRPG> ali1234: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/youtube-upload.png
<mgdm> it's attempting to make thumbnails from the videos as you upload, but bungling it
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> oh well
<HazRPG> transcoding to mp4 in pitivi
<HazRPG> urgh, ok so this time its not evening showin a preview :/
<HazRPG> this time i used FFmpeg H.264 MP4, with faac audio (AAC?) etc
<KINGOFSWORDS> hi
<KINGOFSWORDS> problem with googleearth in 64bit
<ali1234> HazRPG: i use [mp4mux], [ffenc_alac], and [ffenc_mpeg4] in pitivi
<HazRPG> hmm, the settings I picked must have worked:
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcWPeXpa9ys
<ali1234> [ffenc_aac] belongs to [ffmux_mp4], and like it says, it's not recommended
<HazRPG> or maybe not...
<ali1234> that's really messed up lol
<HazRPG> indeed :/
<HazRPG> *sigh*
<MartijnVdS> uhm
<MartijnVdS> MPEG4 is "special"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234's way seems the sanest
<ali1234> looks like you only got i frames :)
<MartijnVdS> as long as it plays on ps3 :P
<HazRPG> I don't seem to have mp4mux
<MartijnVdS> get it :)
<ali1234> ah yeah you need to install the codec pack that makes everything work
<HazRPG> nope
 * MartijnVdS uses mp4box to mux mp4s
<HazRPG> just being a spaz, it is in there :/
<ali1234> (you probably already installed it since you need it for just about everything)
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> ali1234: thanks for the help, hopefully this should work
<HazRPG> also, is there a way to default these settings? (having trouble finding a way to do so :/)
<ali1234> i don't think so
<ali1234> but it gets saved with the project file
<ali1234> so you can make a blank project, and load it up before you start
<ali1234> actually there's probably a default project file somewhere you can save over
<ali1234> the new pitivi has a much improved codec settings page where you can make presets: http://jeff.ecchi.ca/blog/2010/12/10/new-project-settings-and-rendering-ui/
<ali1234> which is cool
<HazRPG> hmm, PiTiVi v0.13.5 is the one I have and according to the site thats the latest one :S
<ali1234> the new thing isn't released yet
<HazRPG> ah
<HazRPG> hmm, think this should do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWYNMS5LuM
<HazRPG> mainly made it because one of my friends was having trouble trying to add music :/
<ali1234> "but i use inity"
<ali1234> "how i open two windows"
<ali1234> hmm so basically you do cd ~/.ultrastar && unzip ~/Downloads/ultrastar*.zip
<Myrtti> classy
<Myrtti> martiini confesses to internet stalk people
<Myrtti> hes one of the people why my twitter profile is private :-/
<exobuzz> wonder if ubuntu natty will be released with this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-appmenu/+bug/669712 - annoying
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 669712 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "virtualbox menu entries disabled in global menu (dup-of: 641209)" [Low,Triaged]
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 641209 in indicator-appmenu (Ubuntu) "With appmenu-gtk some menus are blacked out in VirtualBox" [Low,Triaged]
 * hamitron makes a note on his timetable Myrtti is active at this time
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> has anyone tried running their distro from a usb 3.0 drive?
<hamitron> specifically, one of these high performance SSD ones
<balor> off topic question but, what do Windows users use for personal backup, like we'd use deja-dup on Linux
<willy1977> balor: get on your knees...
<willy1977> hands together... look skyward and pray.. :)
<balor> willy1977: Don't blame me.  I came home for a week and was handed a Vista machine...I've not been a Windows user since the last century
<hamitron> what is a backup? ;/
<willy1977> balor: nah, got nothing against it - just thinking that's what most users I've dealt with would be doing...
<hamitron> tbh, these online backup services tend to offer better support for windows.....
<willy1977> that's true... isn't there like the windows cloud or something?
<balor> I've got a NAS, I just need something to copy files
<hamitron> could use rsync just the same too
<hamitron> what is deja-dup?
<hamitron> :s
<Jibadeeha> i have started using deja-dup
<brobostigon> !info deja-dup
<lubotu3> deja-dup (source: deja-dup): Backup utility. In component universe, is optional. Version 16.1.1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 418 kB, installed size 2976 kB
<Jibadeeha> it is great for encrypted backups
<hamitron> bleh, I don't need encrypted
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I have nothing to hide \o/
<Jibadeeha> do any of you guys use autofs
<Jibadeeha> hamitron, neither have i
<hamitron> encryption where it is not needed, just makes me uneasy
<willy1977> I've used the a-click backup client (a lot of online providers seem to use this) it's not so bad...
<hamitron> I'd rather keep it plain, in case something goes wrong.... then there is a better chance of recovering
<Jibadeeha> hamitron, i have been burgled before .. so this time i have everything encrypted
<willy1977> balor: a click stuff was for you :)
<hamitron> Jibadeeha: I guess if you store stuff that is personal, a good idea
<willy1977> yeah hamitron how the fluff do you keep prying eyes off your porn?
<Jibadeeha> hamitron, identify theft worries me
<hamitron> willy1977: typing encryption keys mid action must be a pain? ;)
<willy1977> you get used to it
<willy1977> :o
<willy1977> so I'm told :/
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> no need to store content readily available on the internet anyway
<Jibadeeha> lol true
<hamitron> I do like to keep old drivers and software
<hamitron> and if my old comps get stolen, the thief will need them
<ali1234> the thing about computer thieves is... if they are smart, the first thing they'll do is utterly wipe the machine
<hamitron> so only polite to leave them
<ali1234> if they're dumb, they won't know how to use linux anyway
<ali1234> so i don't use encryption
<Jibadeeha> it is who they sell them on to
<hamitron> they'd call back at mine and charge me for disposing of waste :/
<hamitron> do you think windows 95 stickers will put them off?
<Jibadeeha> Windows 98 stickers would be better
<brobostigon> window me ones, :)
<hamitron> haha
<Jibadeeha> trumped
<hamitron> I like Windows ME :/
<willy1977> brobostigon: hahah that's gonna put most people off :D
<brobostigon> willy1977: yeah, :)
<Jibadeeha> Designed for MS-DOS 4.0
<hamitron> my new comp is in a 18 year old case
<hamitron> turned yellow, so i hope it is safe
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but I can't see why they'd target a desktop PC these days
<hamitron> they are so cheap
<hamitron> also a huge risk of getting ssomething worthless
<HazRPG> teh awesomes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwUC9oRB4VE \o/
<Mez> hmmles... I seem to have lost wobbly windows with unity.
<HazRPG> I wonder if hackers see a win95-me machine n just assume there's no point...
<Mez> and gnome-do :(
<hamitron> easy target more like
<hamitron> can gain access to too many machines
<hamitron> can never gain*
<Jibadeeha> hackers probably see win95-me machine and think to themselves .."nah ... i am not a vulture"
<shauno> I think as long as it can send outbound mail, they probably don't care (or even look) what it is.
<hamitron> are they not moving away from the mass mailing?
<hamitron> I'd have thought they'll have stuff sat waiting idle more these days
<HazRPG> I don't get why some hackers waste their time making spam bots :?
<HazRPG> surely it would be more productive figuring out flaws and trying to fix them (more rewarding too)
<shauno> easy.  money.
<shauno> all the people sending you emails about performance enhancing pills, aren't doing it because they have an odd sense of humour
<hamitron> they've never replied to my requests :/
<HazRPG> hamitron: xD
<HazRPG> shauno: also, you mean just general money phishing (I will give you this nothingness if you give me money)
<hamitron> not even joking ;)
<HazRPG> hamitron: they use fake e-mail addys ya know ;P
<shauno> HazRPG: in various forms, sure
<hamitron> HazRPG: I visit the meds sites they advertise
<HazRPG> hamitron: next time just spam them back xD
<HazRPG> sendmail *@domain.com x100 times
<hamitron> I spam they online forms on the sites they sell stuff
<hamitron> their*
<HazRPG> I think it would be funnier if a counter hacker just took the d**n site down
<shauno> I still get multiple emails per day trying to lure me to fake battle.net login pages.  given that my account has a dollar value of something like $22, they're really shooting at economies of scale  (where sending thousands of emails is *cheap*)
<HazRPG> or even a "haha you just got pwned!"
<hamitron> if they are gonna make it harder work for me reading my mail, they will find it harder reading requests from potential customers
<HazRPG> lol
<shauno> HazRPG: if they don't run their own mailservers, what makes you think that's their webserver :)  just as much chance you're just ruining some hapless third party's day
<HazRPG> hamitron: good plan ;)
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah, but it surely could be traced back though ;)
<shauno> traced back which way?  if you target someone's server, the owners are going to be looking in your direction, not russia's :p
<hamitron> unless you use a vps that is not yours or something, but still pointless
<hamitron> need to hit the source
<hamitron> man, I'm in a fighting mood atm
<shauno> just the mood for finding something useful to do with that SiS box :p
<HazRPG> no I mean like if you get access into the server that was taken down for their own entertainment, then you find and see if there's any logs that point you back to them... and then delete your trace if you can, and get them!
<hamitron> I need to install grub on the thing, so it will boot from usb
<dutchie> \o/ oggcamp
<daubers> \o/
<hamitron> \o/
<shauno> HazRPG: half the time, if you just contact the isp you'll discover it's someone on a shared hosting account that has no idea what they're doing, and got taken over
<popey> \o/
<hamitron> shauno: you are right
<hamitron> I'm gonna do something productive
<HazRPG> erm \o/
<directhex> SiS /o\
<hamitron> still can't decide if to get an external USB 3.0 SSD
<directhex> hamitron, you have USB3 kit?
<hamitron> or just get an external drive to store more junk
<hamitron> yes
<directhex> ... really?
<hamitron> yeh, on my new comp
<hamitron> GA-H55N-USB3 motherboard
<hamitron> my graphics card dwarfs my motherboard
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> hamitron, normal. these days 3-slot cooled cards exist
<hamitron> mine is only 2 slot
<hamitron> but in the long run I will use the graphics on the cpu
<hamitron> but installing my OS on an external USB drive just seems appealing
<daubers> hamitron: I got a USB3 caddy the other day, but that was just because I needed a caddy that could take a 12mm HDD :)
<hamitron> my hdd are the slowest thing I have
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> tbh, I am impressed with everything I have now for performance, apart fromt hem
<hamitron> them*
<hamitron> daubers: thinking maybe this one http://www.ebuyer.com/product/251739
<daubers> hamitron: I'm not very up with SSD's. Been waiting for reasonably priced drives before I splurged on loads at work :)
<daubers> got 8 coming in when I get back from holiday now \o/
<hamitron> but I would prefer some external device that lets me install RAM into it, with battery backup and circuits to make it act as a drive
<hamitron> 32Gb maybe
<hamitron> 8 x 4Gb sticks :)
<hamitron> another option is just a USB 3.0 flash drive for Â£12
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> http://www.anandtech.com/show/1742  ?  5 years old now, can't be that expensive :)
<hamitron> it only supports SATA 150 speeds
<hamitron> I did actually consider one, instead of a comp upgrade
<hamitron> but decided to change comp and get 8Gb of real RAM, then i can always make a ram drive
<shauno> I wonder if there's a newer version of that yet
<hamitron> there is
<hamitron> it fits in the 5.25" bay
<hamitron> uses its own power connector from the PSU
<hamitron> but the circuit on it only supports SATA 1500
<hamitron> 150*
<hamitron> :(
<directhex> hamitron, there is a HUGE scale of performance between SSD models
<directhex> right now, the ocz vertex 3 is the fastest. but only via sata3
<hamitron> directhex: the only bad thing about my motherboard.... sata2 :/
<daubers> chap at work had one of tho ocz drives delivered today with his new mobo and assorted parts
<hamitron> well, I can find other things to moan about, but I shouldn't complain :)
<hamitron> the intel stock cooler is even working well
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> cpu idles at 16 C
<hamitron> :)
<matti> hamitron: Too hot! :p
<shauno> mine has sata3, 'kinda'  :/
<directhex> shauno, ?
<hamitron> matti: ;)
<shauno> for some reason, it'll do sata3 on the hdd connector, but sata2 on the dvdrw one
<directhex> considering buying some of the parts for wife's new pc while we're in the US. much cheaper...
<directhex> e.g. Â£70 less for the graphics card
<hamitron> maybe worth it
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> get a vertex3 for under Â£200...
<shauno> which is a bummer because previously, the most popular upgrade was to replace the dvd with a sdd, so you've got both disks.  one for speed, one for bulk
<shauno> can still do that, but makes it a much messier process
<directhex> ocz are happy to honour warranties worldwide, so are intel
<hamitron> directhex: it has to be external
<ali1234> my motherboard has 8 data connectors........
<ali1234> *sata
<daubers> hamitron: Put it in an enclosue
<shauno> ali1234: this is a laptop :)
<directhex> ali1234, 10 isn't out of the ordinary, had a 10-port mobo years ago
 * daubers would just wang a raid card in it and go sas -> sata
<directhex> useless, of course
<ali1234> so it's sata 2... but is the 3gbit shared over them, or per connector?
<directhex> per connector
<ali1234> so would you say i'd probably be better off with a raid, than one ssd?
<ali1234> raid of cheap hdds that is
<directhex> no chance
<hamitron> you can get ssd drives with twin connectors
<ali1234> hmm interesting
<directhex> raid0 with 15000 rpm drives won't touch a midrange ssd
<daubers> ali1234: Run your base OS off an SSD and keep your data on a HDD RAID :)
<ali1234> directhex: even if i had like 6 drives and striped them with no mirroring?
<ali1234> vs a single ssd?
<directhex> ali1234, yup.
<ali1234> interesting
<daubers> ali1234: Yup, you'd probab;y get a similar (or better) streaming speed, but less IOPs with SSDs
<daubers> with HDDS
<daubers> even
<directhex> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4256/the-ocz-vertex-3-review-120gb/6
<hamitron> less heat too?
<ali1234> less noise as well
<daubers> and less power requirement
<hamitron> I want a hdd-less comp
<directhex> yes, sequential is king for hdd
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> ssd does random just as fast as sequential, hdd dies on random
<hamitron> so when you are previewing all those thumbnails of folders of "pics".....
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> by "is king" i mean "a velociraptor can compete at the low end". whereas for random, you're looking hundreds of times faster
<daubers> It's also a capacity/performance trade
 * daubers wants a NAS with 8 3TB HDDs in RAID5 and an SSD in his laptop
<daubers> unfortunatley, as mum always said, "I want doesn't get"
<ali1234> yeah those charts say it all really
<hamitron> problem with a usb caddy, it is gonna be the bottleneck
<hamitron> unless there are more optimised ones out since I looked
<ali1234> so... i see that ram-in-a-box hard drive... but wouldn't it be easier to get a pci-x card with a bunch of ram slots on it?
<ali1234> i mean pci-e of course
<hamitron> I have no pci-e slot
<ali1234> pci then
<directhex> ali1234, they're not very good.
<hamitron> or pci
<directhex> ali1234, they happened years ago... problem with RAM is it is somewhat volatile, so power down PC and...
<ali1234> well yeah
<hamitron> it is either esata or usb3.0
<ali1234> but disregarding power issues
<hamitron> I like the idea of losing everything
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> ali1234, still not very impressive performance
<ali1234> i never turn off my computer
 * hamitron cuts ali1234's power line
<ali1234> pci-e must be faster than sata though right?
<shauno> that'd be a bit annoying.  2 second power cut and it's time for a reinstall
<hamitron> the i_RAM has a battery
<hamitron> i-RAM
<hamitron> but sata150 sucks
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> and the newer ones are not made by huge companies and cost too much
<shauno> I'd imagine most implementations would end up sticking a sata controller on the pci(-e) card, so that it's familiar to the OS
<ali1234> pci should be memory mapped
<ali1234> so it should appear as normal ram on any "good" OS
<hamitron> is it viable to load a partition in RAM on boot?
<shauno> so you're not going to boot from it
<ali1234> no, of course not
<ali1234> i only boot up about once every 2 months
<shauno> I was under the impression the OS disk is where most people see sdd gains
<hamitron> imo, /tmp would benefit me most
<ali1234> for me, more memory
<ali1234> i always run out of memory
<ali1234> too many buggy programs
<hamitron> ali1234: this isn't either or
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> and yeah, several livecds copy themselves to ramdisk
<hamitron> unless I have to use my real memory for the drive :/
<shauno> more memory doesn't stop bugs filling it.  just takes longer :)
<hamitron> you can either kill the bug, or run away from it
<shauno> but if you don't need it mapped to a disk controller, wouldn't you just get a mobo that lets you stick a stupid amount of system ram in it and shortcut the peripherals?
<hamitron> ;)
 * ali1234 used valgrind!
<ali1234> it's super-effective!
<hamitron> so how you fill more ram?
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I've managed to use 6Gb once
<shauno> you'll always fill ram.  the kernel tries to :)
<ali1234> shauno: well my motherboard only has 4 slots, maximum of 16gb
<ali1234> that might just about be enough, until i start some VMs
<hamitron> you could upgrade motherboard
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> I'm sure you can find one sillier than that :)
<ali1234> to what?
<shauno> or denser.  mine has 2 slots, for a maximum of 16Gb
<hamitron> I saw one that takes 32Gb in 4 slots
<hamitron> but the 6 series chipset bugs scared me away
<hamitron> and the memory limitation of windows 7
<hamitron> ;)
<shauno> unfortunately the difference between 2x4Gb sticks and 2x8Gb sticks for this is close to $1400 US :/
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> mine only takes 2x4gb anyway
<ali1234> 8gb are the brand new thing
<ali1234> 4gb are getting affordable now, i think 4x4 is about Â£140 now
<hamitron> Â£130
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> i'll get it when it hits Â£100
<hamitron> 2x4gb for under 65 quid seemed nice I thought
<ali1234> or when i get annoyed enough
<shauno> I'm waiting until I can budget a ssd, so I only have to open the thing once.  since it's rather invasive now
<hamitron> :D
<hamitron> I'm thinking, 6Gb ram for /tmp
<ali1234> bug 757727
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 757727 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu) "Zeitgeist-daemon memory usage skyrockets after dash search" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/757727
<ali1234> looks like i might be getting it sooner than later
<hamitron> ali1234: any excuse ;)
<ali1234> in other news, i heard ubuntu classic was patched to have the classic 3 way menu and no global menus by default
<shauno> yeah, spotted that on planet this morning.  best news I've heard regarding this release for a while
<ali1234> it's a victory for "what it says on the tin"
<hamitron> brb, need more coffee
<zleap> hello
<zleap> how do i find out who owns a domain or when a domain registration runs out ?
<zleap> tried whois and nslookup and am stuck
<Azelphur> zleap: it will be on whois
<Azelphur> if it's not on whois, whois it harder. :P
<zleap> ok
<zleap> how
<Azelphur> whats the domain?
<Azelphur> I use http://dnsstuff.com for whois lookups
<zleap> http://www.friendsofpaigntonrfc.com/
<Azelphur> spooky, no information
<Azelphur> I think it's actually illegal to have no information there o.O
<popey> http://dnstools.com/?count=1&lookup=on&wwwhois=on&portNum=80&target=friendsofpaigntonrfc.com&submit=Go!
<popey> there is info
<Azelphur> popey: dnsstuff shows nothing, interesting :)
<zleap> ok thanks
<zleap> the problem is we need to update the website, don't have a uid / password
<zleap> and the owner won't respond to e-mails etc
<zleap> she or she was part of the same organisation that set up the domain and i think she did the website
<zleap> ok it looks like ti runs out on 16th may 2011
<hamitron> so a month after then?
<zleap> ok
<zleap> what does this mean
<zleap>  Domain status: clientTransferProhibited
<zleap>                 clientUpdateProhibited
<TheOpenSourcerer> hey - just noticed where OggCamp 11 is going to be this year :-)
<zleap> hamitron, does that mean we have to wait till 17th june before we gain access to the site
<zleap> or can re-register it in our name
<hamitron> I think the domain expires on the date on the record, but there is some cool down period
<zleap> ok
<hamitron> I'm not 100% of the length, I think it is maybe a month
<zleap> what happens if it gets renewed automatically
<hamitron> but it would be a lot better if you can contact her
<zleap> we are trying
<hamitron> snail mail?
<zleap> she just stopped doing anyting
<zleap> well they tried phone, and e-mail
<zleap> i will ask
<hamitron> there is the risk it could be renewed automatically... also the risk someone else could snatch it
<hamitron> I'm not sure about the best way to go about what you want, as i don't deal with domains
<hamitron> :/
<zleap> well its a pretty specialist name really, i think we want to snatch it, so we can do something with it
<hamitron> iirc, there are sites that let you "pre-register" a domain
<zleap> OK
<hamitron> so once it becomes available, you get it
<Azelphur> cooldown period is like 70 days
<Azelphur> iirc
<zleap> ok thannks
<hamitron> thanks Azelphur
<hamitron> knew it was something
<hamitron> :)
<zleap> if someone could help me find that site it would be good
<zleap> i assume once we have grabbed it, we can host it elsewhere right
<zleap> as i am not even sure who the hosting company isd
<zleap> hang on what is to stop people pre-registering any site to take control of it
<hamitron> there is nothing
<zleap> so in theory i could register www.microsoft.com,  ok that is an example,
<ali1234> i'm sure one time microsoft forgot to renew it and some guy bought it
<hamitron> you could, and would get it if MS let it expire and didn't renew in the grace period, technically
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> but of course then microsoft would just sue you and get it back
<hamitron> but even if you get it....
<hamitron> exactly
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> microsoft lost hotmail for a while
<ali1234> yeah that was it
<Azelphur> some guy bought it and pointed it at the hotmail servers until MS woke up
<zleap> ah so the gradeperiod has to run out first then it automatically moves to the new owner
<zleap> kinda like squatting i guess
<hamitron> it is available to register, not 100% about the best way to get it
<hamitron> :)
<zleap> what the friends site
<hamitron> simplest way is to contact the owner
<zleap> well i am in touch with other mambers of the organisation so they are dealing with that
<hamitron> I don't know if someone would register it before you, to try charge you for the name
<hamitron> that is the biggest risk I guess
<hamitron> :)
<zleap> just wondered what use http://www.friendsofpaigntonrfc.com/ would be to anyone else really
<zleap> if need be i thought if we simply registered another domain like .co.uk we could simply set up another site somewhere
<zleap> but that would kinda not work as google would then come up with both
<hamitron> zleap:
<zleap> sorry accidently exitied the client
<hamitron> http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/two-brothers-fishing
<hamitron> maybe a change of address too
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> thanks i will let graham now
<brobostigon> good night all, sleep well.
<zleap> know
<zleap> nite brobostigon
<hamitron> nn brob
<zleap> :)
<brobostigon> good night zleap and hamitron
<brobostigon> :)
<zleap> i am, off too,  thanks for your help, willl need to work on this when i am less tired
<zleap> m
<zleap> nite
<KINGOFSWORDS> hi
<dwatkins> lo
<hamitron> evening
<KINGOFSWORDS> i only have 3 urls in software sourves>other  sofware tab and only (main) is ticked does this mean universe and multiverse arent on my pc?
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: it means those repositories arent enabled
<popey> which is unusual
<KINGOFSWORDS> ok
<KINGOFSWORDS> yeh i thought thats y ive been having problems
<hamitron> don't they get enabled when you first install something from them?
<popey> they should be enabled really
<hamitron> from the newbie apps installer
<popey> all of them, main, restricted, universe, multiverse
<KINGOFSWORDS> but in /etc/apt/sources.list they are vlisted
<KINGOFSWORDS> without the # in front of them
<KINGOFSWORDS> do i just edit sources.list then sudo apt-get update?
<popey> i would use the gui
<popey> less chance for error then
<KINGOFSWORDS> newbie apps installer?
<popey> software sources
<popey> where you were
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-12
<KINGOFSWORDS> add and copy paste them?
<popey> copy and paste what?
<popey> they're tickboxes
<KINGOFSWORDS> the urls
<popey> you just tick "main, restricted, universe, multiverse"
<KINGOFSWORDS> they arent there?
<popey> what aren't where?
<dutchie> !screenshot
<lubotu3> Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<directhex> http://cybernetnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ubuntu-software-sources-proprietary-drivers.jpg
<dutchie> ^^ one of those might be handy
<dutchie> ooh, brown
<dutchie> i remember that
<dutchie> and the buttons are on the wrong side :)
<directhex> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TLHkB_oNhPI/AAAAAAAACH4/MQ8IYpyZio0/software-sources.png ?
<popey> http://imagebin.org/147694
<popey> ^^ mine
<KINGOFSWORDS> theres 2 canonical ones thats arent ticked and ppa launchpad 7 machines (main) which is
<popey> KINGOFSWORDS: in which tab?
<directhex> KINGOFSWORDS, you're not on the "ubuntu software" tab.
<popey> you're in the "Other software" tab?
<craiganicol> Does ekiga work through empathy? I'm getting network errors when I try to connect :-(
<directhex> craiganicol, isn't ekiga a SIP client?
<craiganicol> Yeah.
<craiganicol> Got an ekiga.net account
<directhex> and you're trying to add a SIP account to empathy?
<craiganicol> directhex, that's right
<popey> didnt know empathy did SIP
<directhex> is telepathy-sofiasip installed?
<directhex> popey, 2 different plugins!
<popey> golly
<craiganicol> I've got a SIP account option
<craiganicol> So I'm using that
<craiganicol> Dunno if it's sofia or not
<directhex> craiganicol, try installing telepathy-sofiasip - i think the other option is provided by telepathy-haze (pidgin compatibility)
<craiganicol> Well, apt-get is installing sofia, so I guess I wasn't using that...
<craiganicol> OK, let's try restarting empathy...
<craiganicol> Hmm... still just the one SIP option, and still network errors :-(
<directhex> officially it works :/
<directhex> oh. it doesn't work with NAT, apparently.
<directhex> try setting stun.ekiga.net as a STUN server in advanced settings
<craiganicol> Ah, might be an ekiga problem. I've installed the official client and I'm getting a registration failed error with the same credentials.
<craiganicol> Sounds like it isn't an empathy problem.
<craiganicol> Although I'm slightly concerned that a password change on the Ekiga website sends out the password in plain text.
<craiganicol> Any other SIP providers out there?
<directhex> ... i use the company server, so no idea
<popey> i use sipgate.co.uk
<hamitron> nn all, eyes hurting with fake light so gonna read a real book o/
<craiganicol> cheers popey, I'll check them out
<craiganicol> Thanks for your help all. Night night
<craiganicol> Just as a test, I tried with sip2sip and that logged in instantly
<HazRPG> \o
<knightwise> morning everyone
<shauno> mornin
<knightwise> how are you doing today
<shauno> not even 8am and I'm reaching my crazy quota all ready :(
<shauno> "you russia, no? er, no, just english sorry.  *click*".  4 times already.
<knightwise> lol :)
<knightwise> on irc or what ,
<popey> morning slackers
<knightwise> hey popey !
<knightwise> good of you to join us
<TheOpenSourcerer> Afternoon popey what kept you ;-)
<knightwise> we've been waiting for you for about an hour
<TheOpenSourcerer> All set for Friday evening then?
<knightwise> having "the  mornign off on irc" are we ?
<popey> oh yus!
<popey> although given my volvo gave up the ghost and is costing me 450 quid to fix I may not be drinking/eating as much as I might!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - we are all in car pain then?
<popey> oh you too?
<knightwise> popey "gave up the ghost" is kind of a dutch expression i thought
<TheOpenSourcerer> My V70 needs a service shortly (I suspect that it might cost more than the car is worth)
<popey> heh
<popey> how old is your v70?
<popey> mine's a 51
<popey> knightwise: it is?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's "V" reg. 2.4Turbo
<popey> oooo
<popey> retro
<popey> i love mine
<shauno> 'gave up the ghost' is biblical, so will show up in a lot of western languages
<popey> bit beaten up now though :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Quick but drinks petrol and my wife uses to take out her frustrations.
<popey> the intercooler went, which is ~450 quid to fix
<popey> haha
<popey> I have the diesel
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bumpers knackered, wings scratched, and we are recently missing one gatepost
<popey> :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was looking at lease deals last night. One can get a reasonable car for less than Â£200/m. If this service is much over Â£1500 I will dump the car.
<ging> who would have thought removing 1 little package could do so much harm to ubuntu
<TheOpenSourcerer> The dashboard reminds me somewhat of Blackpool at Christmas :-D
<MooDoo> hello all
<ging> i uninstalled dbus because it was not working and it uninstalled half of the ubuntu packages with it
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i am considering pcp
<TheOpenSourcerer> Isn't that "Angel Dust" popey?
<popey> and renewing every 2 years or so, so never paying the balloon
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: on advice of council, i decline to answer
<popey> ging: surely it told you it was going to remove everything?
<popey> ging: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> to get it back to how it should be
<popey> the caret is important
<MooDoo> huh?
<MooDoo> :D
<popey> huh?
<MooDoo> popey: just seen a few lines appear wondered if it was you answering questions now or they have just been resent!
<popey> 07:57:22 < ging> i uninstalled dbus because it was not working and it uninstalled half of the ubuntu packages with it
<popey> answering that
<MooDoo> ah
 * MooDoo poddles off for coffee
 * popey makes poached eggs for brekkie
<MooDoo> popey: shush [seeing as i'm at work already]
<popey> :)
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> morning daubers
 * daubers heads off to work with a mission to chat up some suppliers to borrow some kit...
 * knightwise is fighting with multiboot
 * MartijnVdS multiboots knightwise ;)
<knightwise> multisystem
<popey> blimey, 60 tickets for oggcamp reserved already
<MooDoo> oggcamp?
<MooDoo> didn't know that was announced.....doh!
<MooDoo> ooooo there is the webpage
<popey> http://oggcamp.org/
<MooDoo> yeah just found it
<popey> http://ThisURLIsUsefulIfYouWantToKnowWhereAndWhenOggCampWillBeThisYear.com
<popey> might be a preferable URL :D
<BigRedS> Gah. Why wont thunderbird reply sensibly?
<BigRedS> is there a way to make Thunderbird do reply-to-list by default (i.e. on ctrl-r)? I can't find one if there is
<MooDoo> popey: looks awesome :D
<popey> isnt it ctrl+l?
<BigRedS> ctrl+l is reply to list, yeah, but I want ctrl+r to Do The Right Thing :)
<popey> heh
<shauno> ctrl+r doesn't use the reply-to header?
<Laney> some people don't set that
<Laney> and then complain when you don't respect the setting they never asked for
 * TheOpenSourcerer can walk to OggCamp this year :-)
<popey> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> And will be checking out the venue this Friday evening funnily enough.
 * popey tickles aquarius with http://ComeToOggCamp11On13thAnd14thOfAugust2011AtFarnhamMaltingsSurrey.com
<MartijnVdS> popey: long domain names-r-us?
<popey> longest domain names :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: put an URL lengthener on there (like hugeurl)
<popey> haha
<popey> funny you should mention that...
<popey> http://ShorteningURLsIsSoLastYearClickMeToFindOutWhereAndWhenOggCampIs.com
<BigRedS> I approve of this :)
<popey> :)
 * MooDoo 's wife might be too pregnant for me to attend
<AlanBell> bring her along
<AlanBell> and name it "Ogg"
<MooDoo> AlanBell: lol 8.5months, i don't think so :D
 * MooDoo ponders Ogg Mellors.....
<popey> That sounds great!
<AlanBell> I have a cousin Owen who is known as Ogg
<popey> there is an Og in the FLOSS community
<popey> works on Foresight Linux iirc
<MooDoo> og Marciel ;)
<popey> thassim
<ging> popey: yeah it told me it was going to remove everything, i just thought it was exagerating
<knightwise> i have an interesting quest
<knightwise> i love the whole full circle magazine and would love to download their latest issue and email it to my tablet automatically
<knightwise> should not be that hard to do .. should it ?
<dwatkins> It should indeed not be hard to do, knightwise. I imagine it's quite easy, but I suggest reading the wget manpage funny and being certain you won't download a truckload of other data first.
<knightwise> true dwatkins
<dwatkins> Also, you may want to let them know you're going to do this, as if there's a really big amount of data it will cost them for hosting, knightwise.
<dwatkins> Perhaps there's a tar of each edition available from them already.
<dwatkins> are you referring to the PDFs?
<knightwise> yep
<Myrtti> oh my
<Myrtti> oggcamp is on my birthday
<popey> \o/
<AlanBell> there will be cake
<popey> speaking of cake
<popey> http://imgur.com/oLJeu
<popey> Sophie made some cake :)
<dwatkins> woot, popey
<popey> http://imgur.com/bAoSH
<popey> Sam with a bucket of milk in bed :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm must be school holidays - Wife is screaming at the kids already :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I must go and take my chillies to the Greenhouse.
<Myrtti> wow
<Myrtti> reading the interview of a Nokia marketing division person who's leaving the company
<Myrtti> Nokia has had a 30% claim on the toilet paper market of UK at one point
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<bigcalm> I like the Eventbrite tickets, but it does seem a bit of a waste of paper
<bigcalm> Myrtti: why the enhanced breathing action?
<Myrtti> I can't decide between having a nap or trying to do something marginally useful
<shauno> you mean naps aren't useful?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: nap, you'll get more done afterwards :)
<shauno> http://shop.canonical.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=natty&op=Search   \o/
<bigcalm> Looks ok
<bigcalm> Bet it gets hot in the sun though
<s-fox> Hello.
<davmor2> morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning me ole mucker
<davmor2> czajkowski: up and about I see does that mean you made a miraculous recovery?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Me owld china
<Myrtti> I wish I knew if I can spend my birthday in UK or not
<davmor2> Myrtti: why would you not be able too?
<Myrtti> davmor2: mum
<bigcalm> davmor2: Myrtti's birthday is an intangable random number
 * davmor2 reaches over and flicks on absolute 80's let get this partee started
<bigcalm> \o/
<Myrtti> oh well, plenty of time left before August to figure out
<czajkowski> davmor2: no signed off for another week bulging disc
<davmor2> Myrtti: so have you birthday there and then celebrate over here
<czajkowski> sciatica  as well
<Myrtti> davmor2: oggcamp 11 :-/
<Myrtti> "can you please reschedule oggcamp, it's on me birthday and I want to spend it with Mum"
<Myrtti> no?
<andylockran> hey guys
<Myrtti> I knew you would spoil the fun
<andylockran> anyone got experience with the rxtx driver?
<davmor2> czajkowski: you know what you need don't you,  one of those bed things that holds you upside down and release all the tension on your spine :)
 * popey changes oggcamp date just for Myrtti 
<andylockran> or java in general? http://dpaste.com/531176/
<Myrtti> popey: who knows, perhaps it's not an... issue in August anymore...
<davmor2> Myrtti: :(
<popey> :S
<Myrtti> I'll get me coat
 * czajkowski hugs Myrtti 
<smittix> Morning
<davmor2> Myrtti: what you need is some of ntfsclone,  that's it you need a Myrtticlone  then you can be at both
<MooDoo> clone Myrtti = fail     sudo clone Myrtti = success :)
<czajkowski> so who's going to oggcamp :D
<czajkowski> tons of notice!
<issyl0> czajkowski: o\
<issyl0> czajkowski: o/ even
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm not i'm afraid
<czajkowski> MooDoo: we are destined never to meet
<davmor2> czajkowski: I have no idea at this early point.
<MooDoo> czajkowski: oh we will, but the other will be 8.5 months pregnant, and i don't want to leave her for two days.
<kaushal> hi
<czajkowski> MooDoo: true
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'll get you that pint soon enough
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: o\ == facepalm? or "Y U NO"-guy?
<kaushal> i have searched /proc/acpi/battery/
<davmor2> czajkowski: he doesn't want to meet you you might provide him with all those beat downs you promised him ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: one can hope :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: hey he owes me beer for all the rugby slagging!
<kaushal> is there a way to know if its a 9 cell or a 6 Cell or a 4 Cell battery
 * MooDoo hangs his head in shame
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: A typo.
<kaushal> without visiting the Manufacturers website
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: Nah, it was on purpose. People don't admit typos :)
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: Am I not a person?  ;-)
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: OK.. _most_ people
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: :)
<davmor2> kaushal: you can try the battery properties no promises as it depends on the manufacturer as to exactly what info you get
<davmor2> kaushal: click on the battery icon and click on properties
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: Thaaaat's better.
 * MartijnVdS writes some HTML
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<diplo> morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<davmor2> morning diplo
<kaushal> davmor2: thanks
<kaushal> but doesnot give that info
<davmor2> kaushal: website or google then but at least you have the model info now :)
<smittix> Does anyone have a natty machine near them?
<davmor2> smittix: yes thanks
<smittix> davmor2: Could you check something for me?
<davmor2> smittix: go on
<smittix> In system settings does the bluetooth icon show properly?
<davmor2> nope
<smittix> Ok, thanks for that
<davmor2> it's showing the no icon symbol
<smittix> Thought so.
<davmor2> smittix: I'm taking it your system is set up on en_GB correct?
<smittix> Yeah
<davmor2> thanks
<smittix> Same problem with the Universal Access Preference Icon on the logon screen
<shauno> popey: re screencasting, I just use quicktime & vbox.  easy way to maintain a pristine environment & easy switch distos
<shauno> not an ideal solution, but short-term cheaper than buying capture hardware
<smittix> What's the best way to submit a bug for missing icons?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: o/
<davmor2> smittix: it looks like it might be that the icon string is translatable so report against the application for now
<smittix> davmor2: Ok
<smittix> How long does it normally take for a bug report to be updated?
<davmor2> smittix: depends how slow LP is that day
<smittix> Ahh ok I submitted this on the 7th
<smittix> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/753405
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 753405 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Changing Cursor theme doesn't update changes" [Undecided,New]
<safiyyah> hi guys need help with an installation, anyone free?
<dogmatic69> safiyyah: just ask your question :)
<safiyyah> trying to install libre office. I added the PPA but when I clicked on it, it had unresolved dependancies, so I uninstalled openoffice, refreshed and despite the ppa being there apt-get does not recognise libreoffice, checked on synaptic and well, it doesn't find anthing either
<dogmatic69> has that even had any changes from oo?
<safiyyah> yep
<safiyyah> it will be the default for natty as well
<safiyyah> but anyway, can anyone help me understand what has happened?
<dogmatic69> did you do apt-get update
<safiyyah> yep
<dogmatic69> out of ideas then :)
<dogmatic69> wait for one of the pro's
<safiyyah> damn! LOL
<safiyyah> okay i will try a reboot
<safiyyah> popey, help me!!!!!!!
<safiyyah> AlanBell   ??
<AlanBell> hmm?
<AlanBell> I have not tried the libre office ppa
<AlanBell> I have tried libre office in Natty though, works fine
<safiyyah> you are already running natty?
<AlanBell> in a VM
<AlanBell> not got round to putting it on hardware yet
<AlanBell> might upgrade the kids computer soon though
<safiyyah> any ideas on the broken ppa? I googled and all solutions posted do not work
<safiyyah> so which one are you running?
<danfish> afternoon :)
<safiyyah> lol
<AlanBell> got any error messages?
<safiyyah> yes
<danfish> safiyyah: which ppa you using exactly?
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593074/
<safiyyah> i reran the commands so you guys can see the output there
<safiyyah> the exact ppa on synaptic is http://ppa.launchpad.net/libreoffice/ppa/ubuntu I am on Lucid
<danfish> what's the output of apt-cache search libreoffice ?
<safiyyah> safiyyah@safiyyah-desktop:~$ sudo apt-cache search libreoffice
<safiyyah> ttf-opensymbol - OpenSymbol TrueType font
<safiyyah> safiyyah@safiyyah-desktop:~$
<safiyyah> just the ttf
<kvarley> Is there a list of Ubuntu compatible TV Cards anywhere?
<kvarley> Or any recommended brands?
<BigRedS> I suspect MythTV related things would be a good place to check
<danfish> safiyyah: hmm. That's odd. There should be more than that
<bigcalm> kvarley: check the mythtv project
<BigRedS> it wont be ubuntu specific support, just stuff the kernel supports
<kvarley> bigcalm: Thanks
<kvarley> BigRedS Thanks also
<bigcalm> For once, not a miss-tabbing ;)
<danfish> kvarley: or http://www.linuxtv.org/
<safiyyah> danfish,  thats why I can't understand what's happened
<danfish> safiyyah: when you did sudo apt-get update, any errors?
<safiyyah> nope
<safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593074/
<davmor2> kvarley: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsMultimedia try this
<kvarley> davmor2: Thanks, just what I'm looking for I think
<danfish> safiyyah: oh yeah..my bad
<safiyyah> danfish would a reboot resolve this? I am in the middle of a windows installation on VB OSE so I will wait for it to complete first
<danfish> safiyyah: maybe...worth a try I suppose. I've got a lucid machine - I'll see if it's reproducible
<safiyyah> okay
<safiyyah> will call you when I reboot
<danfish> ok
<safiyyah> windows taking forever
<safiyyah> is anyone running microsoft office on playonlinux?
<kvarley> safiyyah: LibreOffice is a perfect substitute. However, you need to use winetricks for office to work I think
<danfish> safiyyah: on this lucid install, doing sudo apt-get dist-upgrade after apt-get update, the sudo apt-get install libreoffice worked OK.
<safiyyah> okay trying that now
<safiyyah> danfisherm same issue for me
<safiyyah> danfish erm same issue for me
<danfish> safiyyah: sorry - out of ideas :(
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593074/
<popey> should be sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gnome
<popey> not sudo apt-get install libreoffice
<popey> maybe
<shauno> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2011/04/one-click-bash-installation-script-for.html   xmessage?  really?
<safiyyah> popey still got the same output
<popey> davmor2: that bug about bluetooth icon
<popey> i filed it weeks ago iirc
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 14th April 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | oggcamp.org \o/
<popey> bug 742398
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 742398 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Missing icon for bluetooth applet" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/742398
<davmor2> popey: possibly let seb128 know I just pointed smittix in the general direction on filing a bug after speaking with seb128
<popey> i have commented on that bug again
<popey> shauno: what the hell is wrong with that guy, can't resist dragging the mouse around the screen highlighting nothing at all whilst talking
<popey> in the first 30 seconds
<ali1234> why is the video for how to use the "1 click installer" 7 minutes long?
<popey> :)
<ali1234> that's longer than it takes to install minecraft by hand
<ali1234> too long; didn't watch
<JGJones> ali1234, it's 8 minutes long actually
<JGJones> I've always thought the point of a video tutorial was to just show the steps, without talking (making it universally accessible regardless of the language)
<popey> i hate videos with no narration
<popey> it makes me think "What are you showing me? Why are you showing me this?"
<popey> if you sat next to someone showing you something, they wouldn't be mute, they'd explain it
<JGJones> Yeah I know....I'm looking at it differently, because a nonsense voice booming in the background is annoying for me. So probably the best thing is to include subtitles that can be translated I guess, but no-one does this :)
<popey> i did :)
<popey> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2369893842637434537#
<JGJones> popey - that's awesome :) But I'm more amazed...thought Google Video was all merged into YouTube actually!
<popey> I uploaded those years ago, before the merger
<JGJones> yeah...quite some time...Ubuntu 6.06 :)
<smittix> bah I have totally forgot the name of the TS Client I use.
<smittix> And I use it on a daily basis
<smittix> :/
<diplo> Remmina ?
<smittix> Bingo!
<smittix> Ta
<smittix> heh
<smittix> I went blank there for a minute.
<gr33npeace> morning all!
<MooDoo> morning
<dogmatic69> o/
<gr33npeace> anyone else use empathy to connect to a Google Apps chat account?  Anyone else notice the small age it takes to login?  Anyone found a way to deal with this?
<gr33npeace> aside from throwing the laptop at a wall.  I'm keeping that as Plan B.
<dogmatic69> http://mail.google.com/mail :)
<gr33npeace> aaargh, don't start with that!!  :)   I don't get notifications of chats and my work colleagues think I'm rude/report my non-working to my boss
<dogmatic69> Empathy 2.32.1 starts instantly for me
<dogmatic69> lol, reported for not working when you are not on chat :D
<gr33npeace> really?  I have a "normal" gmail account, and that logs in immediately... but my work Google Apps account takes F.O.R.E.V.E.R.
<gr33npeace> dogmatic69: yeah... international company... many timezones... tight management
<ali1234> use pidgin instead
<gr33npeace> ali1234: tried, that doesn't even login!!  :)
<hamitron> pidgin ftw \o/
<hamitron> oh :/
<gr33npeace> hamitron: yeah... that's pretty much what I thought... in that order
<ali1234> so amazon made a kindle with adverts
<ali1234> it's a whole Â£15 cheaper
<hamitron> under 100 quid?
<dwatkins> I'd pay 15 GBP just to never have adverts on a kindle.
<ali1234> seems like a bad deal to me
<dogmatic69> just added my work gmail thing and it was instant too
<smittix> Can pidgin do video chat?
<ali1234> yes
<MooDoo> ali1234: not sure if they are releasing it over here yet
<MooDoo> it's adverts on the home screen when in standby mode
<gr33npeace> dogmatic69: that's strange... did you add it to empathy?
<dogmatic69> yes
<dogmatic69> Empathy 2.32.1
<hamitron> will it only be the 3G version?
<hamitron> so it can download the adverts
<dwatkins> "adverts that will hang around at the bottom of the main menu"
<gr33npeace> dogmatic69: same version as me...
<ali1234> i thought the whole point of e-ink was that it's always in standby mode
<ali1234> except when you turn the page
<dwatkins> I think this means 'screensaver mode' ali1234
<ali1234> why would it have a screen saver
<hamitron> "when you turn the page".... the few moments you aren't even reading the thing :/
<dwatkins> having said that, you can hack the screensaver to display whatever you want
<ali1234> that would use more power and wear it out faster than not having one
<hamitron> "screen strainer"
<dwatkins> heh good point
<ali1234> sounds to me like if you take longer the 5 minutes to read a page it's going to shove an advert in your face
<ali1234> i can't see any other way how the "screensaver" would ever get activated
<dwatkins> even adverts just on the menu would be annoying
<MooDoo> adverts = annoying .
<dwatkins> the screensaver thing comes on when you sleep the device, I gather
<ali1234> yeah well that's just plain bad design then because it should be sleeping all the time except when you turn the page
<dwatkins> or if you do nothing for ages (20 minutes)
<dwatkins> it does, this is a different kind of sleep
<dwatkins> it's idling when not turning the page, but displaying an image from a library of authors when you don't use it for a while or you put it into "I'm not using you right now" mode
<smittix> Does anyone use FGLRX and Wobbly windows in Natty? Is it jerky?
<dwatkins> I used fglrx on SGI machines years ago, they were hideously slow, so unfortunately that's no surprise, smittix
<smittix> Last couple of years everything has been fine on this lappy dwatkins
<smittix> Everything nice and smooth.
<dwatkins> smittix: excellent
<smittix> Just not as smooth on nattty
<directhex> i use fglrx on maverick.
<selinuxium> hi all   o/
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<selinuxium> Hey BigRedS :0
<selinuxium> :)
<BigRedS> herro :)
<selinuxium> I have actually got the company to buy 24/7 support for our Ubuntu server! (yay!)
<BigRedS> whooo!
<MooDoo> woohoo
<selinuxium> where my gold star? ;)
<MooDoo> *
<MooDoo> there you go
<BigRedS> That's silver on my monitor
 * BigRedS adjusts the colours
<MooDoo> :p
<selinuxium> lol
<MooDoo> selinuxium: http://www.schoolmeritstickers.com/productimages/display/SA145.jpg i'll fill this in for you
<selinuxium> MooDoo, Very funny! :)
<MooDoo> :D
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> installed cyanogenmod on my hero
<directhex> android 2.3.3
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> directhex: working ok?
<selinuxium> I still have my hero.. my upgrade is ready but I am going ot hang out for a dual core me'thinks...
<directhex> hamitron, haven't tested blootoofs yet. rest seems okay
<BigRedS> I got bored of waiting for cyanogenmod for my galaxy, and stuck Darky's on it. It seems that anything that's not made by a company is generally good :)
<directhex> clockworkrecovery didn't work until i flashed it a second time, so installing was painful
<BigRedS> I thought that was the current way of 'installing' clockworkmod?
<BigRedS> use the stock bootloader to install update.zip, which is clockworkmod. but you have to do it twice for no reason. then use clockwork mod to 'recover from' whatever zip you're installing
<hamitron> I dunno why they can't just make it easier to choose the version of android you want :/
<hamitron> provide a cable with instructions for flashing
<BigRedS> yeah, I did wonder what Samsung gained from encrappening my galaxy
<BigRedS> i suppose the crapware probably pays for itself but the breaking of the UI probably doesn't
<hamitron> I'm getting too old to be jumping through hoops
<AlanBell> they call the crapware "incremental revenue opportunities"
<hamitron> ;/
<BigRedS> I did get quite angry at samsung for making it difficult. I think the trick is to completely re-rom it as soon as it arrives, while there's enough novelty value for hoop jumping to be fun
<AlanBell> we were talking to a retailer about Ubuntu and they wanted to fill it with trial stuff, we explained that we had full unrestricted versions of everything, they were not impressed
<hamitron> BigRedS: break it before the end of the month? ;)
<AlanBell> "where are our incremental revenue opportunities?"
<hamitron> hehe
<AlanBell> "it is better for the customer"
<AlanBell> "don't care, where is my revenue"
<hamitron> tbh, I can see their point
<hamitron> if you provide everything needed for free, no opertunity to make money
<directhex> of all people, sony ericsson have announced they're going to have a fully unencrypted bootloader on non-network-locked devices from now on
<AlanBell> so retailers really really want a trial virus scanner, a trial office suite, a trial firewall, a trial DVD player etc. etc.
<hamitron> directhex: on their new PSPhone?
<directhex> hamitron, if the user can install gingerbread on a 2-year-old phone, they won't buy a new phone. hence lockdown. simple!
<directhex> hamitron, yes, for example
<hamitron> if only sony hadn't upset me so much these last few years :/
<directhex> http://blogs.sonyericsson.com/developerworld/2011/03/29/unlocking-the-boot-loader-in-the-new-xperia%E2%84%A2-smartphones/
<hamitron> directhex: they may change their mind and remove it
<hamitron> ;)
<BigRedS> hamitron: I rooted it within about an hour of unboxing it :)
<directhex> hamitron, and sue you if you don't like it? :p
<hamitron> hehe
<bigcalm> Before I fudge up a client's server, is my bash foo safe? find /var/www/VirtualDomains/ptp/web/uploads/tmp -type f -mtime +1 -exec rm {} \;
<BigRedS> bigcalm: depends what you want to do ;)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: world domination, but I'm not sure that bash will help me with that
<BigRedS> but, yeah, any files over a day old in the ..../tmp dir will be deleted
<bigcalm> BigRedS: delete files in a dir older than 1 day
<bigcalm> Sweet
<bigcalm> Ta
<BigRedS> could do rm -v to check, if you're concerned
<bigcalm> It's going to go in a cronjob, so I might for the 1st few days
<bigcalm> There are similar folders that need to have content deleted after 28 days as well
<hamitron> directhex: so they are saying you can on some new sony phones, but if you do A you may be charged and doing B can also be charged for.... oh, and you void all warrenty
<directhex> hamitron, at least it's a clear policy
<hamitron> sounds more like a way of charging for repairs to more users, and not having to provide any warrenty to me
<directhex> hamitron, it's a way for them to say "you brick it we're not sympathetic"
<hamitron> yeh, that is fair
<hamitron> but not if the keypad goes faulty....
<directhex> keypad goes faulty, restore your nandroid backup of their rom before sending it back
<hamitron> or other parts of hardware
<BigRedS> directhex: without a keypad? ;)
<directhex> also note in the EU they can't refuse to cover hardware defects due to software
<hamitron> they maybe technically can't, but can be sure they will try ;)
<hamitron> I'm still not inspired to get an android phone :/
<hamitron> so will just sit on the fence and see what happens ;)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: the line I pasted, how will it cope with filenames with spaces in them?
<BigRedS> bigcalm: ooh, badly
<BigRedS> didn't think of that. I forget people put spaces in filenames
<BigRedS> I need to write a script that detects filenames with spaces in and slaps the offender
<directhex> hamitron, i'm not inspired to get another android phone
<directhex> hamitron, my actions now depend on HP.
<hamitron> oh?
<hamitron> I'm still not sure if to go android, meego or wp7
<hamitron> or even just some other device
<hamitron> :)
<bigcalm> BigRedS: easy way to make it cope with spaces?
<BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah, quoting. I'm not sure off the top of my head, but i think just -exec rm "{}" \; might do it
<BigRedS> I'd google, though
<bigcalm> Humm, ok
 * bigcalm continues his googlings
<BigRedS> it's amazing how many times I can forget to change the IP address in a vhost, and still spend ten minutes dumfounded as to why it's not working :/
<bigcalm> Have your vhosts listen on any ip address?
<hamitron> time for tea and cakes, brb
<BigRedS> bigcalm: that'd take some of the fun out of it
<BigRedS> quick sanity check - copying the second field of /etc/shadow for a user from one machine to another will give them the same password on each machine?
<BigRedS> or is there salting funny business going on?
<scoundrel50> Hi, when is Natty being made available to install? I know its in beta at the moment. How close is it to being ok to use?
<AlanBell> scoundrel50: it is available right now to install
<MooDoo> scoundrel50: i'm using it now
<MooDoo> quite like it to be honest :)
<AlanBell> it will be released on the 28th of this month
<scoundrel50> how do I install it?
<AlanBell> !natty
<lubotu3> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011. Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1. Natty is beta and is not currently intended for production systems.
<AlanBell> !download
<lubotu3> Ubuntu installation CDs can be downloaded from http://releases.ubuntu.com - Mirrors can be found at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mirrors - PLEASE use the !torrents to download !Maverick, and help keeping the servers' load low!
<AlanBell> nope, not that
<MooDoo> update-manager i used
<AlanBell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
<scoundrel50> if its this close to release, most of the errors would be fixed, yes?
<scoundrel50> I would be using update manager, as I dont know to isntall upgrade using liove cd
<MooDoo> scoundrel50: possibly :)
<AlanBell> it has been worse than it is now
<MooDoo> scoundrel50: i went from maverick to natty on my laptop using update-manager
<AlanBell> update-manager -d or something
<AlanBell> or I think in update manager you can ask it to show development releases
<scoundrel50> I was just looking at the Unity, isnt that the netbook desktop? I tried using that on my netbook, and got imnsto all sorts of confusions, has it been changed much from that?
<bigcalm> BigRedS: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/593134/
<directhex> hamitron, meego doesn't have any future, IMHO. not in handsets, at least
<BigRedS> bigcalm: oh, cool
<gordonjcp> scoundrel50: it seems to be quite like the netbook interface
<directhex> hamitron, it's a choice between android or iphone or blackberry in the big leagues, wp7 and webos for the smaller competitors
<bigcalm> BigRedS: I just hope it's universal across version of find
<scoundrel50> I think I am going to try give it a go. Cross your fingers for me......
<BigRedS> bigcalm: I'd expect so, tbh. It's the sensible way to do it
<AlanBell> is a random firewire card like this likely to have any issues with Ubuntu? http://www.dabs.com/products/startech-com-4-port-ieee-1394-pci-firewire-card-2QFG.html?q=firewire%20card
<bigcalm> http://i.imgur.com/kXWg6.jpg # hehe
<hamitron> directhex: not unless some hardware vendor backs it, no. but still a nice toy ;)
<directhex> hamitron, well, there's a meego image for n900
<directhex> AlanBell, firewire is all done with one universal driver
<directhex> like usb2/3
<hamitron> yep, that is what I have considered
<hamitron> but is symbian dead?
<JGJones> hamitron, from what I've read...pretty much - it's "open" only to business partners, of which there are a very small numbers that still use Symbian just in Japan
<hamitron> such a shame
<hamitron> :/
<JGJones> Yeah since it appears that Symbian works really well on very low end hardware (very cheap and long battery life) - in fact perfect for countries that don't have the income to play with latest smartphones - Symbian is very popular in Africa/India etc for a reason.
<hamitron> tbh, most people even here don't need something as complex as android
<AlanBell> all I want is ssh and a browser
<JGJones> Dammit I NEED Angry Birds!
<JGJones> err
<JGJones> wait I use it for work.
<hamitron> haha
<JGJones> Really
<JGJones> like..um...check emails?
<MooDoo> shush i'm playing angry birds rio :)
<hamitron> symbian is advanced though, with QT and all
<JGJones> hamitron, yeah, it CAN do it, but it's usually not paired with a phone that make it really fly.
<hamitron> but nokia have probably closed it to reduce competition
<JGJones> It's usually on hardware that's a tad slow...so when I compare it to Android on N1...Symbian feel so slow and inefficient
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but per cycle, it rocks!
<JGJones> and I still think Nokia's daft to go WP7 only.
<hamitron> just give it some cycles :/
<hamitron> they aren't are they?
<JGJones> wonder what'll happen to the software division in Nokia now that they're not going to do much.
<hamitron> I read they will probably be continuing on other stuff
<hamitron> WP7 only would isolate them from the budget market.... big mistake
<HazRPG> \o
<bigcalm> hamitron: read that as WordPress 7. I was confused :S
<bigcalm> Hi HazRPG
<JGJones> Nokia make a huge range of phones, each doing different things...I wonder how that would work with WP7 since MS have a defined certain limitation on what hardware you can use with it
<HazRPG> bigcalm: hey dude
<JGJones> ie minimum speed of CPU, screen resolution, even buttons etc.
<hamitron> JGJones: Nokia have not said they will ship _only_ wp7 phones
<hamitron> so I'd guess it will only be the high end phones they make that will be pushed with wp7
<JGJones> Yeah, Nokia did say that they'll ship a version of Meego - that's one, but they are phasing out Symbian phones and they're not doing much work on Meego now...so...what are they doing?
<JGJones> so basically it leave...um...WP7?
<dogmatic69> anyone know how to open OOo draw?
<hamitron> have they actually said they will stop all symbian?
<dogmatic69> cant see it in the menu, although i have writer etc
<AlanBell> hamitron: no, they just said it isn't open source
<AlanBell> so we can continue to pay no attention to it
<hamitron> AlanBell: is there a source I can download the originally open sourced code?
<JGJones> hamitron, they haven't said they're planning NEW symbian phones either :-) But they have said that they will continue to support existing phones and make them (150 million over the next year or so)
<AlanBell> I heard that was on sourceforge somewhere
<AlanBell> can't be bothered to look tbh
<hamitron> AlanBell: hehe
<JGJones> hamitron, http://www.i-programmer.info/news/83-mobliephone/2175-nokia-sends-open-letter-to-developers-about-the-future.html
<JGJones> bye bye symbian phones
<AlanBell> "open as in letter"
<AlanBell> I went to a presentation with a symbian person telling us how they had the most open source devices in the world, bigger than Linux etc
<JGJones> Was there much laughter to be had? :)
<AlanBell> there were some confused looks
<AlanBell> I figured this might be interesting, best get round to looking at it at some point
<JGJones> Talking about closed source...time for me to reboot into Windows...urgh...(I gave up on trying to get Ekiga to support H.263/H.264 video codecs so there's no SIP video calling in Linux for me)
<AlanBell> and it has gone, before I wasted any time looking at it
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: hmm, sure its even installed? (can't remember if its in there by default or not)
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: oh, its under "Graphics" in the menu btw, not "Office"
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: found it under graphics
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: :)
<gord> http://castrojo.tumblr.com/post/4536294249/more-quicklists - genius
 * bigcalm bookmarks that for when Unity is forced upon him
<scoundrel50a> Hi, what hanel did you say was there for problems with installing Natty?
<scoundrel50a> Major problem in installing
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: what's the issue?
<scoundrel50a> well, installation seemed to go ok, got to reboot, and get past grub,and screen goes black and nothing happens
<scoundrel50a> cant even get into recovery mode
<scoundrel50a> have to use power button to turn it off,
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: sounds like a gfx issue rather than an installer issue then.  What iso did you use?
<scoundrel50a> I id it via the update manager
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: In that case it's nothing to do with the installer team at all then.  It could be that a whole bunch of things that have trigger this you're best bet is to start on #ubuntu the official help channel and work from there
<scoundrel50a> ok
<scoundrel50a> ok, have tried #ubuntu....got told to go to 'ubuntu+1, tried there, no answer.
<scoundrel50a> Discovered something, in the new grub, it gives an option to go into older version of Ubuntu, so I click on that, and the desktop appears, and its the new desktop. With the icons down the side, so somehow the install has gone wrong somewhere
<scoundrel50a> is there anyway, now I am in this new desktop to update or something to see if it will worK
<scoundrel50a> hello?
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: You might find it is the new version of your gfx driver if that is the case, the older kernel would use the older driver,  let me guess at an nvidia gfx card?
<scoundrel50a> how can I find out?
<davmor2> No idea I'm afraid, also don't forget that people on irc might not answer straight away as they are doing things like work and stuff :)
<scoundrel50a> so why should it go to a black screen when I click on the first option in grub, but will open to the new desktop if I click on the older version option
<scoundrel50a> I am sorry, I wasnt trying to be funny, I do understand about people doing things, wass just asking
<brobostigon> good evening everyone.
<pr0ph3t> evening
<Psychobudgie> evening
<Psychobudgie> Anyone here use kde regularly?
<HazRPG> Psychobudgie: I'd say most use Gnome mainly in here, why whats up?
<brobostigon> good evening pr0ph3t and Psychobudgie
<scoundrel50a> is there anyway to fix this upgrade so that I can boot into Ubuntu properly, instead of via previous verion
<Psychobudgie> been using unity for the last week or so and lets just leave it at that. I'm looking for an alternative desktop
<Psychobudgie> just interested to know what issues to expect when I install kde
<Psychobudgie> I'm making a pre-emptive move before natty goes final
<brobostigon> gnome3, :)
<pr0ph3t> I noticed a discrepancy between HD video playback between my Ubuntu box and my Windows installation on the same hardware. When I play a movie which claims to be at 1080p on windows all is fine, but on Linux it lags during certain scenes. Now arguably, the hardware I am using is not the fastest, I have an asus ul30a laptop with ulv cpus intel core 2 duo 3gb of ram and a horrid integrated intel graphics card. Is there an
<pr0ph3t> y way I could improve the playback performance on Ubuntu just enough to be able to watch those movies without having to log onto windows?
<Psychobudgie> I'd prolly try gnome 3 at some point, but as ubu seems to be pumping everything into unity and compiz it will probably be on a different distro
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good evening :) \o
<pr0ph3t> or is it just a problem which lies purely on the porting of the graphics drivers
<Psychobudgie> pr0ph3t, it will be the graphics drivers
<brobostigon> HazRPG: yay, good evening.:)
 * brobostigon jumps on HazRPG and hugs,
<Psychobudgie> either that or the codec you are using
<Psychobudgie> but probably the first
<HazRPG> pr0ph3t: evening dude
<pr0ph3t> evening HazRPG
<MartijnVdS> HD video about the space shuttle (narrated by William Shatner) - http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/hd/index.html
<HazRPG> pr0ph3t: hmm, that's an interesting question... what sort of tools are you working with so far?
<Psychobudgie> pr0ph3t, if it's streaming, try downloading it first then playing it locally
<HazRPG> Psychobudgie: gnome as a desktop environment, according to shuttleworth, isn't going to be in ubuntu at all after natty... so the next release will just be purely unity
<pr0ph3t> HazRPG, well I am working on high resolution as well, 1920 x 1080, playing locally with VLC, totem lags a lot more
 * MartijnVdS has va-api installed
<HazRPG> pr0ph3t: really? I find VLC to be slower than totem :/
<MartijnVdS> only vlc uses it, but it removed all lag issues
<Psychobudgie> HazRPG, if that is the case all the progress ubuntu has made over the last 8 years will be for absolutely nothing
<Psychobudgie> it will be the next mandrake
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's going to be in ubuntu, it just won't be the default install or on the CD
<pr0ph3t> HazRPG, version 1.1.8
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can make a Gubuntu (just like kubuntu now) if you like
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, some are already making moves to do just that
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: See, no problem then :)
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, think they are calling it mint ;)
<pr0ph3t> sory MartijnVdS what did you mean onyl vlc uses it?
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: isn't mint full of other kinds of poo as well? (patent-stuff, codec-stuff)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, you mean va-api?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: VLC has an option for it to use VA-API, gstreamer doesn't seem capable (yet). Totem uses gstreamer
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: yes
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, as far as I was aware mint is essentially ubuntu with a green skin
<MartijnVdS> Psychobudgie: and non-free codecs?
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, they aren't exactly difficult to get hold of
<Psychobudgie> MartijnVdS, or to install
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I doubt I have the time to keep something like a distro current and up-to-date xD
<Psychobudgie> don't like the direction ubuntu is heading at the moment
<AlanBell> which way is that then?
<HazRPG> Psychobudgie: you are arguably right, and there has been MANY flames and discussions over the fact that gnome is planned to be lost... however if they have any sense, they will try to please everyone in the end. Gnome is still going to exist in the repos though, it just won't be a standard install of it.
<Psychobudgie> the zero config way
<HazRPG> Psychobudgie: mint is only similar to ubuntu in the sense that ubuntu is similar to debian
<HazRPG> the whole interface, design choices, and application sets are very different
<Psychobudgie> mark s has commented that the current config for unity may be removed entirely before release as they want it to essentially force zero config
<Psychobudgie> which I would understand for a commercial os, it's far easier to support
<Psychobudgie> but this isn't a commercial os
<X3N> Psychobudgie: maybe it is now
<Psychobudgie> not a criticism, just not for me
<Psychobudgie> X3N, I don't think it is, I think shuttleworth wants it to be one though
<Psychobudgie> which is why I mentioned mandrake earlier
<X3N> I've been using ubuntu since it was formed and this is the first time i've seriously considered switching to fedora
<Psychobudgie> they tried similar in 2003ish and went bankrupt as a result as almost their entire userbase jumped to, ironically, ubuntu
<X3N> I'm involved in gnome 3 upstream, so if ubuntu stops supporting gnome properly then it doesn't make sense for me to use ubuntu what ever the other benifits
<Psychobudgie> it would be ironic if ubuntu made the exact same mistake
<Psychobudgie> X3N, that's my opinion also
<Psychobudgie> If I'm going to move to gnome 3 it will likely be on a distro that fully supports it
<X3N> yeah
<Psychobudgie> still, I'll give kde a go
<X3N> and I don't think I'll recommend it to any friends anymore either with the current direction
<Psychobudgie> was a faithful kde user at one point in the distant past
<Psychobudgie> I wouldn't put it on anyones machine with unity as the front end
<Psychobudgie> not unless I wanted them to hate linux
 * brobostigon is using natty with gnome3-team ppa,
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, any good?
<Psychobudgie> brobostigon, too early to comment?
<X3N> I tried the gnome3 ppa yesterday but it was failing all over the shop
<rml_home> Can anyone give me a hint on why my update manager doesn't want to run?
<brobostigon> Psychobudgie: a few package oddities, other wise, spot on.
<MartijnVdS> I trie dthe gnome3 ppa but I couldn't log in
<MartijnVdS> gdm just hung
<X3N> I've since built gnome3 from source
<Psychobudgie> rml_home, you on the beta?
<rml_home> nope, vanilla 10.10
<Psychobudgie> rml_home, getting any errors?
<rml_home> Psychobudgie: not that I can see.
<Psychobudgie> run it from a terminal
<Psychobudgie> should spit out any errors
<rml_home> Psychobudgie: It flashed on screen the first time I tried, then disappeared
<Psychobudgie> run it from a terminal
<rml_home> Psychobudgie: cheers, I'll give it a whirl
<Psychobudgie> just type 'sudo update-manager'
<Psychobudgie> should tell you why it's not running
<rml_home> Psychobudgie: just tried that.  Got some gruesome error messages :(
<rml_home> is there a pastebot here?
<brobostigon> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<rml_home> I don't want to get kicked for pasting ~8 lines ;)
<rml_home> lubotu3: thanks
<lubotu3> You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-)
<rml_home> D'oh! :)
<brobostigon> rml_home: he is a bot,
<Daniel0108> hi
<brobostigon> :)
<Daniel0108> does somebody know phillw in REAL LIFE?
<Psychobudgie> heh
<brobostigon> noswaith dda Daniel0108
<rml_home> the "bot" in the name should have been the giveaway...
<brobostigon> yes.
<Daniel0108> brobostigon: you know phillw in real life?
<brobostigon> Daniel0108: sorry, no.
<Daniel0108> oh okay
<Daniel0108> does somebody know what happened to phillw?
<Daniel0108> why is he offline?
<Psychobudgie> gone on holiday?
<Psychobudgie> fell asleep on the keyboard?
<rml_home> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593240/
<rml_home> I'm guessing the segmentation fault is the biggie
<Daniel0108> Psychobudgie: the problem is, there's no email.
<Daniel0108> from him
<Psychobudgie> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1600870.html
<Psychobudgie> that covers that exact issue
<Psychobudgie> looks like your last update messed up
<X3N> rml_home: you could try reinstalling sudo apt-get install update-manager --reinstall
<X3N> otherwise you'd need to get a backtrace and file a bug
<rml_home> Psychobudgie: Cheers.  I'll try reinstalling upgrade-manager and if it's still toes-up will try manually upgrading other stuff from package manager
<Psychobudgie> I'd go with the latter first
<Psychobudgie> as it seems to be that actual cause
<Psychobudgie> brb
<Psychobudgie> switching to kubu
<Daniel0108> does anyone know what happened to phillw??? He just disappeared and there's a team where he is Head of Admin and we need him!
<Daniel0108> and we need his server
<X3N> have you tried contacting him via his details on launchpad?
<smittix> hmm trying to add a wine application to the launcher in natty doesnt work :(
<Psychobudgie> well that didn't work
<Psychobudgie> got a black desktop in kde though plasma does actually seem to be running minus the desktop
<pr0ph3t> sorry I am a bit confused as to what this means:  libva-dev : Depends: libva1 (< 1.0.8+1~) but 1.0.31.1-1+sds4~odk2+maverick is to be installed
<gr33npea1e> whois whois gr33npea1e
<pr0ph3t> it is still connected to my HD video playback issues, I am trying to install libval-dev but that's what I get
<gr33npea1e> oops
<smittix> anybody use dropbox in natty?
<pr0ph3t> I am on natty though, so I don't understand the maverick at the end
<pr0ph3t> but could that be a problem making the playback slow? Also do you find Gnash to be more reliable than Adobe Flash for 64bit systems?
<Jibadeeha> grrr autofs is doing my head in
<Psychobudgie> adobe flash works fine, just use flash-aid to keep it up to date
<Psychobudgie> ok here goes nothing
<Psychobudgie> brb
<rml_home> eek!  650+ items upgading
<rml_home> Psychobudgie/X3N: Many thanks.  I now have a fully upgraded system.
<rml_home> (and my update manager works)
<Psychobudgie> marvellous
<Psychobudgie> np, enjoy
<Psychobudgie> well got kde working here, so I'm also getting somewhere
<scoundrel50a> ok, I just thought I would mention something about the upgrade to natty, I tried to upgrade via Update Manager, and got a black screen after grub, but cold boot up when I entered use older version, so I tried to do fresh install, and as soon as the cd rom begins, it immediately goes to a black screen, even though the cd rom is trying to load. There is a conflict I think with Natty and Aspire Intell GMA 4500M laptops
<smittix> No Dropbox indicator in natty :(
<davmor2> smittix: there might be a ppa that covers that
<davmor2> Psychobudgie: you might be better off with Xubuntu you can keep the gnome apps you're familiar with in a desktop that resemble tradition gnome
<Psychobudgie> kde looks so much like windows it's scary
<Psychobudgie> nope. back to gnome 2 for the moment
<Psychobudgie> heh
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: Right so when you direct Grub to use your old kernel it uses the old driver that worked, when using the newer kernel it will use the newer driver for you gfx that obviously doesn't.
<scoundrel50a> so how do I fix that?
<scoundrel50a> Using the old kernal option loads the Natty, I see the new desktop version, that looks like the old Notebook desktop
<scoundrel50a> with the icons on the left of the desktop
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: As I said previously the people on ubuntu+1 will possibly be your best bet, what you can do in the interim is boot into the old kernel open a terminal and type "ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg" and a then add the details to the bug report to help the developers and ubuntu+1 as you can direct them to your bug.
<scoundrel50a> nope, tried that, no answer
<scoundrel50a> ok, I'll try that, and add a bug report
<scoundrel50a> How do I add a bug report?
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: the other thing you can try is "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -f" incase something didn't download or there was an error
<scoundrel50a> tried that, whilst in the old kernal, and it didnt do anything
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: the "ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg" will take care of the bulk of it for you
<scoundrel50a> ok, will give that a go
<aaronr> is there a way to generate the autodetected X config that ubuntu is using? I need to customise it to add touchscreen support. Tried "X -configure" as root, but that just errors out with "number of screens created doesn't match number detected" or something
<popey> We're live in 3 mins!
<popey> in #ubuntu-uk-podcast
<hamitron> aaronr: there used to be a way with dpkg-reconfigure or something, but I think it has been un-maintained or removed
<hamitron> if you find a good way of doing what you need, please let me know about it :)
<shauno> X -configure is meant to work.  worth trying X :1 -configure if it gets confused by already having X running
<aaronr> ah, i shut down X first
<aaronr> will def post here with results if i get it going
<hamitron> I found that to return a weird config
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> but I suppose it may work with a normal comp
<hamitron> :)
<aaronr> it didn't work at all for me.
<aaronr> using that xorg.conf stopped X working
<aaronr> its a normal enough machine, it can run the display fine
<aaronr> it's just that i want to add the config lines for the touchscreen driver, but ubuntu doesn't do xorg.conf by default.
<aaronr> is there a way I can just feed X the relevant part?
<shauno> you should be able to get away with just putting that in xorg.conf
<shauno> that's all mine has
<aaronr> hmm.
<aaronr> that made X tell me there was no screens configured in my xorg.conf
<aaronr> (because it only had the input driver config)
<aaronr> guessing the presence of xorg.conf totally switches off all autodetection
<scoundrel50a> hi, I added a bug report, lp 759194 does anything show up that might shed a light on the problem?
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 759194 could not be found
<scoundrel50a> lp 759104 sorry
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 759104 in xorg (Ubuntu) "Upgrade to Natty wont load" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759104
<shauno> ah; do you have a /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/  ?  (a folder rather than a file)
<shauno> I think to have just the bit you need, it needs to be an inputclass rather than an inputdevice
<shauno> (an inputdevice says "this is what I have" and has to be called from a screen declaration that includes it, and all that nonsense.  an inputclass just says "for devices matching this description, use this config")
<shauno> not sure why X isn't generating a sane file tho, you'd think if it's autodetection wasn't doing the job it wouldn't work in the first place
<aaronr> no, no xorg.conf.d unfortunately
<aaronr> ah, i'll try inputclass, thanks shauno
<aaronr> yeah agree that it's strange
<aaronr> seems X is autodetecting via another means
<shauno> no idea if it helps, but my xorg.conf is http://paste.ubuntu.com/593278/
<shauno> that's the whole file.  it probably won't drop-in for yours, but an idea of what format will work without having to declare the whole config
<hamitron> oh noes
<shauno> nose
<shauno> +?
<hamitron> updated my comp to 64 bit windows 7
<hamitron> and only just realised doing that for 2 games has rendered a few hundred of my old ones problematic
<hamitron> :/
<shauno> ouch
<directhex> that many?
<directhex> you must have a lot of mid-late 90s games
<hamitron> I do
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> win95-2000 was my time \o/
<shauno> what's the point of an MS os that won't run xcom :p
<directhex> dos is fine via dosbox
<hamitron> dos games are easier to get working
<hamitron> but now I remember why I had a win98 box at this desk, till 2 weeks ago
<hamitron> ;)
<directhex> problem is installshield
<hamitron> I think I can get more working in wine, than win7
<hamitron> haha
 * hamitron changes the "haha" to a cry
<aaronr> shauno: using an inputclass definitely stopped x crashing, now to find the right config for this screen. thank you. :)
<hamitron> !modeline
<lubotu3> A Modeline is a config line in the X server configuration file that gives info about a connected display and how to drive it at a specified display resolution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFree86_Modeline for more details. Here are 2 links to generate modelines which fit your monitor: http://bohne-lang.de/spec/linux/modeline/ and http://xtiming.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/xtiming.pl
<directhex> problem is, when there was still a chance of a game being fed to a win3.1 machine, installshield shipped a 16-bit component which was enoguh to throw a "this app need win9x" error
<shauno> my example may work if you replace the driver & option lines to match the config you were trying to use
<directhex> but amd64 chips have two operating modes - 16-32, and 64-32 bit. you can't execute a 16 bit op on the chip when it's in 64-bit os. the 16-bit instructions don't exist at that point
<hamitron> directhex: I hadn't thought of that
<hamitron> :/
 * hamitron curses himself
<shauno> sounds like you're going to end up dualbooting windows & windows to maintain backwards compatibility :/
<hamitron> shauno: old windows has no drivers for new hardware :/
<hamitron> so it means I'm gonna be back to what it was like before.... loads of machines sat here for different tasks \o/
<shauno> nose!
<shauno> would having win7 32 & 64 side by side not do it?  so you've got a modern OS that's not running in a 64bit context?
<hamitron> tbh, a few of my games don't work in XP :/
<shauno> (and yes, this is why my idea of backwards compatibility is keeping my amiga)
<directhex> i have a non-xp game
<directhex> Fur Fighters
<directhex> bad enough that windows itself has a "no chance, give up" popup when you install it
<hamitron> so i now have a new gaming rig that won't play most of my games, it seems
<directhex> a bit like unpatched... system shock 2? one of those dark engine games
<hamitron> but at least the few games I have run fast and pretty \o/
<ali1234> any game that doesn't work in XP probably doesn't even use accelerated graphics... so just run it in virtualbox
<hamitron> ali1234: they are some picky ones that need win98
<ali1234> old gaems
<ali1234> are old
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> and windows 7 keeps locking my removeable drives
<hamitron> !!!!!!!!! *hits computer*
<hamitron> brb, reboot
<ali1234> hmm
<dwatkins> virtualbox is too slow for many games
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<dwatkins> There's a company called Gog who have been modifying games to run on XP and re-selling them, which (assuming they are paying the proper people) is a neat idea
<dwatkins> nn brobostigon, you too
<brobostigon> good night dwatkins
<hamitron> yeh dwatkins
<hamitron> but I don't intend to repurchase them all
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but the general idea is good
<ali1234> why? http://imagebin.org/147850
<hamitron> I don't get it :/
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> you see the lines, right?
<ali1234> red green and blue
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> red and green fit closely to the blue line
<ali1234> except in the marked area
<ali1234> where it's massively wrong
<ali1234> WHY?????
<ali1234> it always goes wrong in that exact place
<ali1234> pretty much regardless of the blue input signal
<hamitron> oh, ok ;)
<ali1234> yeah, but, WHY???
<hamitron> you are the clever one!
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I am just a kid sulking over a few games not playing :)
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmLSk3EUiXw&feature=player_detailpage#t=90s
<dwatkins> ali1234: hat is that a graph of?
<ali1234> dwatkins: a degraded signal
<dwatkins> signal from what, ali1234?
<ali1234> blue line is the degraded signal, green line is the fast quantized version, red line is an iterative reconstruction algorithm
<ali1234> oh the signal is teletext data scraped from a VHS tape
<dwatkins> neat
<dwatkins> and do you know what the algorithm does?
<ali1234> yeah... i wrote it
<ali1234> it starts with the quantized output then iterates over each bit x the 8 possible values of the next 3 bits, scales them up to the size of the input, blurs it, then picks the one with the least absolute differences from the input
<dwatkins> so can you take the datain that range and manually calculate the values to demonstrate how it should look according to the algorithm?
<ali1234> not really
<ali1234> i could draw the graph of how i expect it to look... over that area is would be the green line
<ali1234> like the rest of the image, the red and green lines should be the same on this section
<dwatkins> hmmm, I see what you mean although I don't understand the individual processes
<ali1234> i just don't understand why same input gives different output at a certain point in the process
<dwatkins> could the small peak afterwards be affecting the red line?
<ali1234> it must be a weird bug, like fence post error or something
<ali1234> it shouldn't do
<ali1234> i mean the algorithm just tries to minimize the area of the area between the red and blue lines
<ali1234> if the red line was a small point like the others that area would clearly be smaller
<ali1234> (see turquiose shaded area)
<dwatkins> could it be there are large values which don't show up there but affect the calculation? have you seen the actual values it uses?
<ali1234> could be
<ali1234> good idea, i'll check
<ali1234> could be integer overflow or something
<dwatkins> or just a tiny spike that doesn't shop up on the graph
 * dwatkins used to work with gas chromatographs
<ali1234> no it can't be that, the graph is not averaged or anything
<ali1234> ever available datapoint is displayed
<dwatkins> ah ok, I wasn't sure there was more resolution than was shown
<ali1234> it has to be a code bug but i don't see how
<dwatkins> how about printing the values as it goes along to a logfile so you can see its 'working'?
<ali1234> oh
<ali1234> derp
<dwatkins> oh?
<ali1234> the algorithm terminated before processing all data
<dwatkins> hmm
<ali1234> so the big peak is 3 bytes long, cos it checks 0b111 last
<ali1234> and never proceeds after that
<dwatkins> aha
<ali1234> 3 bits long sorry
<dwatkins> sounds like the culprit
<ali1234> then the final peak after the big one is just the original quantized data
<dwatkins> Linux saves an otherwise disastrous day.
<dwatkins> You are using Linux, right? ;)
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> how does it save the day?
<dwatkins> hooray
<dwatkins> well, you were able to find the problem, it appears
<dwatkins> I imagine it might have been more difficult using some black box of an application on an OS which was mainly graphical
<ali1234> probably, if such an application even exists
<dwatkins> I assume you wrote this
<dwatkins> I didn't realise teletext was written to videotape
<ali1234> it isn't supposed to be
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: yeah
<ali1234> it's more of an accident
<gordonjcp> video recorders don't do anything special with blanking periods
<gordonjcp> although VHS hasn't got the bandwidth to reproduce teletext
<ali1234> well i disagree
<dwatkins> aha I see
<ali1234> it has enough bandwidth to recover at least 95% of the data
<ali1234> but it's horribly blurred
<gordonjcp> ali1234: depends on the machine
<ali1234> but that doesn't matter much because it's originally a binary signal
<gordonjcp> ali1234: I guess something with a good clean signal path and no "video enhancement" would give you substantially readable teletext
<hamitron> even I don't use VHS tape btw ;)
<ali1234> well, no
<ali1234> video enhancement doesn't make much difference actually
<gordonjcp> something like a Ferguson 3V23/3V24 with nice new sharp heads
<dwatkins> I have a box of VHS tapes marked 'for Oxfam'
<hamitron> oh, I'd never give my VHS away!!!!
<hamitron> if they will even take them
<dwatkins> hamitron: these are mostly tapes I have DVDs of or don't want to keep because they're naff, I have other tapes I'm keeping
<gordonjcp> ali1234: on all the VHS machines with enhancement I've seen the delay through the enhancer is about the same as a teletext dot period
<ali1234> well yes
<hamitron> dwatkins: ah :)
<ali1234> all the filters just blur up the signal
<gordonjcp> ali1234: so you end up with the enhancer actually making a worse mess of the teletext dots, although they superficially sharpen up edges
<ali1234> the trick is that if you see "high" you have 11 if you see "low" you have 00 and if you see "medium" you have 10 or 01
<gordonjcp> incidentally a Betamax recorder *does* have the horizontal resolution to reproduce teletext, but tends to stuff up the blanking periods ;-)
<gordonjcp> there was one recorder I saw that actually decoded teletext subtitles, recoded them at a lower data rate, and then reproduced them internally
<AlanBell> ali1234: so this means that you can watch teletext from a dusty old recording of match of the day?
<gordonjcp> probably Philips, they were fond of stuff like that
<ali1234> AlanBell: sure that's the idea
<hamitron> at least you will know the lottery numbers from back then ;/
<ali1234> the real key to the algorithm is to take a guess at the signal then blur it like the VCR does then compare to what you have, iteratively, until you find something that passes all teletext parity checks
<gordonjcp> you know what I want to have a crack at with modern digital techniques
<ali1234> what?
<gordonjcp> is the content scrambling system that they used to use on a couple of channels in the 80s
<gordonjcp> where each line was pseudorandomly shifted by 0, 1 or 2 ms
<gordonjcp> and they used frequency inversion on the audio
<ali1234> heh, that should be trivial
<gordonjcp> I'm sure I've got some of that on tape somewhere
<hamitron> gordonjcp wants that old pr0n? ;/
<gordonjcp> well the frequency inversion I can do by creative misuse of software-defined radio
<ali1234> i have to deal with a similar problem... the VCR shifts each line by about 2 teletext dots randomly
<gordonjcp> ali1234: sounds like a fault
<gordonjcp> it may not be regenerating line sync pulses correctly
<ali1234> well i tried two VCRs they are the same
<gordonjcp> well
<gordonjcp> handy hint
<gordonjcp> the whole field is written in a single swipe
<gordonjcp> so if you can find the header of each teletext line, go by that instead of the sync pulse
<KINGOFSWORDS> hi
<ali1234> yeah that is what i do
<ali1234> well actually i scan with the fast quantizer and take the position of maximum patiryness
<KINGOFSWORDS> how can i check if open GL is enabled on my ubuntu lucid plz?
<ali1234> *parityness
<ali1234> but i do not need to use oscilloscope or anything like that, i just use a wintv to grab the signal
<ali1234> so i already get "lines" but with a random shift
<ali1234> i think it's more likely to be down to the machine that recorded the tape not the player
<gordonjcp> unlikely
<gordonjcp> unless the head speed is jiggling about, which it wouldn't be
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-13
<MooDoo> hello all
<dwatkins> mornin all
<MooDoo> morning
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<smittix> Good Morning all
<MooDoo> smittix: morning
<BigRedS> g'morning smittix
<willy1977> smittix: morning
<willy1977> morning all ;)
<MooDoo> how is everyone today
<willy1977> yeah I'm pretty good, at work but...can't have everything can we ;) and you?
<MooDoo> willy1977: i'm the same at work at the moment, but thinking of taking on a big project [swaps his ubuntu hat for his fedora hat briefly] :)
<willy1977> MooDoo: a big project... sounds interesting you at liberty to discuss?
<MooDoo> willy1977: Fedora related, so it's not the right channel ;) lol i'll get flamed :p
<smittix> MooDoo: Not too bad, how are you?
<MooDoo> smittix: very well thanks
<smittix> Coolio
<Myrtti> well that's funny
<Myrtti> Rovio is going to publish a cook book
<Myrtti> with lots of EGG recipies
<willy1977> good for when you have the runs then...?
<bigcalm> Good morning peoples :)
<willy1977> morning bigcalm & Myrtti
<Myrtti> cook book with distruction and mayhem, lol
<bigcalm> Eggs are funny?
<issyl0> Morning all.
<issyl0> matti: Ping.
<Myrtti> "the idea is to show how the pigs are learning to cook"
<bigcalm> Hi willy1977 & issyl0
<bigcalm> Myrtti: o.O
<issyl0> :-)
<Myrtti> a friend commented on Facebook "to be announced for  Christmas: green christmas gammon"
<issyl0> Myrtti: Errr...
<Myrtti> ANGRY BIRDS COOKBOOK, you silly people :-D
<issyl0> Ohhh.
 * issyl0 doesn't play Angry Birds.
<bigcalm> Oh
<Myrtti> http://www.digitoday.fi/viihde/2011/04/13/angry-birdsilta-tulee-keittokirja/20115238/66 :-D
<willy1977> isn't Angry Birds that program off itv at lunchtime with that woman from the cruises on?
<bigcalm> I haven't played it for so long I had forgotten the connection with the name
<Myrtti> sorry, it's in foreign
<bigcalm> willy1977: boosh!
<MooDoo> willy1977: badum tish :)
<willy1977> I thank you... I'm here all week
<Myrtti> "try the fish"
<MooDoo> smoke me a kipper i'll be back for breakfast :D
 * willy1977 loves red dwarf :)
<bigcalm> Do you love it enough to care that Dave have commisioned a 10th series? :(
<willy1977> no
<willy1977> unfortunately not... it had lost it's sheen by 8... I think they should've stopped around 5/6
<bigcalm> Completely agree
<BigRedS> They're making another one?
<MooDoo> yup
<bigcalm> I want to say 'sadly so', but I really hope this one works out well. Bobby Llew seems somewhat excited
<MooDoo> http://www.denofgeek.com/television/738816/its_official_red_dwarf_to_get_full_new_series_in_2012.html
<willy1977> you never know... it might work... I hope so.
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<popey> hello JamesTait
<popey> (and everyone else)
<willy1977> morning popey
<JamesTait> Hey popey. So what's this OggCamp thing then? :-P
<willy1977> I'm hoping for camping to become available as I'm skint...
<willy1977> but I'll give up the ticket if that falls through :(
<JamesTait> I think I need to talk to Mrs Tait fairly quickly and get cheaper train tickets. :)
<willy1977> yeah do it, I have no idea what it's about but I thought it'd be cool to rock up anyway and bimble around all lost sheep like :)
<willy1977> well I've read what's on the site obviously :) http://oggcamp.org/
<JamesTait> Sounds like a chaotic mess of geeks. Count me in! :-P
<MooDoo> morning popey
<MooDoo> JamesTait: organised chaos :)
<willy1977> JamesTait: I've not heard that collective noun for geeks in a long time ;)
<JamesTait> (Disclaimer: I've been to both of them so far, and thoroughly enjoyed myself)
<willy1977> ;)
<popey> :)
<Myrtti> I was at the first one
<Myrtti> the second was in a silly place in a silly time
<JamesTait> Myrtti: I think I saw you knitting at the first one? Or was that at LRL the year before?
<Myrtti> LRL
<Myrtti> crocheting
<Myrtti> I still haven't finished the piece I was making IIRC
<gord> hrm, someone posted on a keyboard review for a keyboard i want. "does not need to be line of sight for the IR receiver which is a plus" - i don't even understand how someone could come to the conclusion that it uses IR....
<JamesTait> Ah, right. I recognised that it was something with yarn and needle(s), but I'm not that familiar with the crafts.
<popey> gord: is there some way to reset the unity launcher so it presents the stuff a default user gets?
<gord> popey, unity --reset and erm, there is a gsettings key, hold on let me find it
<popey> \o/ new toy is on the delivery van!
<gord> popey, gsettings reset com.canonical.Unity.Launcher favorites
<popey> whilst logged in?
<willy1977> I've read that does something completely different now?
<willy1977> the gsettings bit... but then again... I know nothing :p
<popey> that did it, thanks
<popey> need to do them the other way round though
<popey> gsettings then unity
<gord> unity --reset will launch a new instance so it'll pick up the new settings then
<willy1977> no sorry need to keep my nose out it was gsettings reset com.canonical...etc. favorite-migration that changed sorry again lesson learned.
<gord> but it also resets the compiz config back to default
<popey> i just did a reset and now Super+E and Super+W don't work
<willy1977> where can I find out what compiz is/does/fits in the whole picture type thing?
<willy1977> found the docs ta.
<gord> popey, expo is super+s i think
<popey> thats changed
<popey> ah yes, there's an s on the workspace switcher
<danfish> morning, morning
<danfish> popey: what's the new toy?
<popey> danfish: http://www.epiphan.com/products/frame-grabbers/vga2usb-lr/
<danfish> popey: nice...but yikes, a tad pricy!
<Myrtti> I need a cave
<popey> yeah :S
<popey> luckily I'm not paying for it
<oimon> hi guys. anything exciting happened in the last 5 days ..been away :P
<danfish> phew :)
<oimon> my 11 and 13 years old nephews are into minecraft :S
<popey> oimon: http://oggcamp.org/ :)
<oimon> i was in farnham yesterday :P
<popey> :)
<oimon> what's the max capacity for oggcamp?
<popey> hard to say
<popey> we have some flexibility
<popey> they have a lot of rooms, some suitable some not, and we could potentially adjust the rooms we use to make room
<danfish> so long as there is room for beer - need moar beer :D
<popey> :)
<popey> plenty of pubs nearby
<Myrtti> I wish I knew if I can attend or not
<danfish> Jono down on the farm ;)
<danfish> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jag7oTemldY&feature=player_embedded
<Myrtti> I don't even know if I can attend a happening on Friday, yet alone August
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> I am going to Farnham Maltings on friday for the beerex :D
<brobostigon> :)
<willy1977> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning popey and willy1977
 * TheOpenSourcerer is also going to beerex on Friday with popey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnham_Beer_Exhibition
<czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
<brobostigon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/gwibber/+bug/755311 ideas?
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 755311 in Gwibber "cant add twitter account - sticks on verifying" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> brobostigon: usually that happens when twitter is being a bit iffy
<czajkowski> but can take a few attempts and then is fine unless something has changed recently
<brobostigon> czajkowski: i have tried repeatedly every day for a few weeks, it hs been there.
<oimon> gwibber3 is out?
<brobostigon> oimon: my gwibber verson number is 3.0.0.1
<brobostigon> version*
 * oimon goes to update natty box
<Myrtti> gwibber still exists? ;-)
<popey> :)
<oimon> yes, although i pronounce it "hotot"
<davmor2> morning all
<brobostigon> good morning davmor2
<davmor2> czajkowski: ow am ya kidda
<czajkowski> going back to sleep
<czajkowski> nn
<davmor2> nn czajkowski
<MooDoo> nn czajkowski sweet dreams
<davmor2> MooDoo: you saying that is enough to her nightmares thats just evil man ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i care :)
<popey> bug 756426
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 756426 in json-glib (Ubuntu) "unable to set double (fixed upstream)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/756426
<czajkowski> bug 756426
<czajkowski> popey: dynf
<popey> hmm?
<czajkowski> damn your nibble fingers
<popey> ah
<davmor2> czajkowski: are popey 's fingers like nimble only tastier then?
 * popey cuddles bigcalm_ 
<bigcalm_> Â¬.Â¬
 * bigcalm_ spanks Freenode
<bigcalm_> Thank you popey, disconnects unnerve me
<jpds> Hey, nice tail.
<bigcalm> What tail? ;)
<smittix> \o/
 * popey cuddles aquarius 
<aquarius> dare I ask why? :)
<popey> doing anything on 13th/14th August?
<aquarius> might be. Have already been bollocked by laura
<czajkowski> not me
<czajkowski> the other one I assume
<Myrtti> I shall be drinking Pimms
<aquarius> no, Laura Cowen :)
 * MartijnVdS would go, but YAPC::EU starts on the 15th.. in Latvia.
<aquarius> Niamh and I go away on holiday just after that weekend, and she's with me that weekend.
<Myrtti> mmm pimms
<aquarius> I am going to see if I can shuffle things around.
<czajkowski> aquarius: bring her!
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Just clone yourself.
<AlanBell> Myrtti: we had pimms at the last one
<aquarius> czajkowski, no :)
<Myrtti> AlanBell: I bet you did
<MartijnVdS> jpds: I would, but the side-effects...
 * oimon wonders if he can get 13th or 14th off as a conference for work purposes...
<Myrtti> aquarius: are you afraid we'd spoil her rotten?
<czajkowski> aquarius: :( I want to meet the cool kid who has to put up with you :p
<AlanBell> Myrtti: http://www.flickr.com/photos/webmink/4574060621/
<aquarius> no. I'm afraid she'd be bored into the next galaxy, and that I couldn't stay up late and hang out with people.
<czajkowski> ahh tis the beer :p
<Myrtti> oh well, no tar schapps for you then...
<Myrtti> (and yes, I know)
<aquarius> hence why I'm trying to shuffle things around. But it does not look promising :(
<popey> :(
<dutchie> AlanBell: i like popey in the background of that pic
<dutchie> looking evil in some undefinablee way
<willy1977> Hi Tony,
<willy1977> I.ve had a message from Joy regarding licensing. We will be able to free up 1 license when we you move live on the new mobile apps, as we won.t need 2 application servers, but unfortunately there will not be any further licenses beyond this freed up.
<willy1977> I have attached an up to date NAV license FYI. This has the middle tier granule included as well (needed for the new version).
<willy1977> Regards,
<willy1977> Matthew Woodhouse
<willy1977> Microsoft Dynamics Team Director | Technology Management
<willy1977> damn multitasking...
<AlanBell> fail
<Myrtti> last year that time I was first eating at Nando's in Cambridge and then driving to Cornwall
<Myrtti> I wish I was in that cottage in Cornwall now...
<oimon> mmm cornwall
<Myrtti> ho-hum.
<oimon> spent my honeymoon in cornwall..it's that good :)
 * willy1977 note to self don't right mouse click links...
<dogmatic69> willy1977: still waiting for the NAV license
<dogmatic69> :D
<willy1977> lol you can have 'em all for me.
<oimon> is that norton?
<dogmatic69> sure sounds like it
<willy1977> is what norton? nav?
<dogmatic69> norton anti virus
<willy1977> ah... nope
<oimon> norton a. virus more like it
<willy1977> lol
<dogmatic69> lol
<willy1977> at my place of work  we provide (amongst loads of other stuff) Microsoft Dynamics NAV consultancy, it's an ERP.
<willy1977> formerly Navision
<willy1977> formerly Financials
<oimon> sounds stimulating
<dogmatic69> oimon: sounds sarcastic
<oimon> 8-)
<smittix> How do you get a ubuntu.com forwarder?
<jpds> !member | smittix
<lubotu3> smittix: Ubuntu Membership means recognition of a significant and sustained contribution to Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community.  For more info see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
 * smittix pats lubotu3 
<oimon> don't you hate it when a printer just refuses to work?
<smittix> cheers jpds
<TheOpenSourcerer> willy1977: Dynamics is bloody expensive - at our place of work we provide (amongst loads of other stuff) OpenERP consultancy, it's a Free Software ERP ;-)
<jpds> oimon: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/printers
<oimon> jpds: they are missing the one where the cups server receives it, it says processing, and the printer fails to kick into action
<willy1977> shhhh don't say that...even if you may be right...
<willy1977> TheOpenSourcerer: ^^^
<willy1977> I'm not even sure why I got involved in that little exchange...I'm a .net developer by day ;)
<dwatkins> I try to avoid anything relating to licensing.
<jpds> oimon: Have plenty with that, yep.
<dwatkins> willy1977: does your IRC client not pop-up a warning when you try to paste more than about 5 lines?
<jpds> plenty of experience*
<directhex> openerp is sorely lacking in some areas, sadly
<dwatkins> irssi won't let me paste a lot by accident
<AlanBell> in what way directhex?
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: And yet, it doesn't cost ~Â£1k per seat
<willy1977> dwatkins: I just went  \o/... I know nothing... I'm using irssi
<smittix> I just tried logging into the ubuntu forums with my launchpad id and it doesn't work?
<willy1977> but ssh to home and I keep forgetting that when I right mouse click a link it fires whatever is in the clipboard and presses enter :(
<dwatkins> willy1977: which version of irssi?
<AlanBell> putty right click is a bad idea
<dwatkins> willy1977: yeah, I used to have the same problem, I think the 'ask if you really want to paste' feature is new.
<dwatkins> AlanBell: that too
<AlanBell> stick to Linux on the desktop and you will have no problems!
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, indeed. at least it sucks for free :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> (12:09:53) AlanBell: in what way directhex?
<directhex> there was a big long list
<directhex> ISTR many problems were regarding history
<oimon> jpds: reboot the printer..of course!
<directhex> e.g. changing someone's hourly wage
<TheOpenSourcerer> It is unlike you to be so succinct ;-)
<jpds> oimon: Three times.
<willy1977> dwatkins: I thought it was the latest... but I just grabbed it from apt-get so maybe not as new as I thought...
<directhex> if you need to bump someone's pay, then you need to create a new contract & change their assigned contract type, or you lose the history of them being paid at a lower rate. no easy way to analyse that historically
<dwatkins> willy1977: 12:17 -%- Irssi: Client: irssi 0.8.15 (20100403 1617)
<dwatkins> willy1977: I don't think it's set as default on mine, actually
 * dwatkins goes to check before accidentally pasting a customer e-mail
<willy1977> dwatkins: nope just found pate_detect_keycount... and a few other settings...
<dwatkins> paste_detect_time = 5msecs
<dwatkins> It still allows me to paste a lot, though.
<AlanBell> directhex: sounds like a need for a beefier HR module, from an ERP perspective you would still have the history of all payments
<willy1977> looking at paste_verify_line_count too
<AlanBell> that would be a fairly straightforward enhancement to make I think
<AlanBell> depending on what analysis you wanted, it could be as simple as writing a line to a journal field when the rate changes
<dwatkins> willy1977: yeah, that's set to 5 on my client, and I have a recent enough version that this all should be there and working, so I'm puzzled as to how it's not asking me for verification when I paste (I created a channel #ubuntu-uk-test to confirm it's definitely not asking me on a channel)
<AlanBell> or rewrite the pay rates thing so that rates are separate objects with valid from dates
<Romeo_> Hey guys need help with ubuntu, tried installing it on my laptop and it installed but when it boots it goes into a dos window asking for my login and then password, even if i enter my user and pass it stays on the dos window
<Romeo_> works fine using live but i have the problem when i install it tried 32 and 64bit
<willy1977> dwatkins: I've noticed that if you set paste line count to two and pate in a two liner it still pastes the first line...
<AlanBell> I think it would be best if I wasn't in the hosts.deny of the server I have been trying to get into
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wish me luck chaps. Just booked my semi-knackered car in for servcice & MOT...
<X3N> Romeo_: is this booting from the install disk or after having installed
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I wish you better luck than I had
<Romeo_> after install
<willy1977> TheOpenSourcerer: really really good luck, everything crossed for you.
<popey> hehe
<willy1977> dwatkins: so essentially I can paste a whole load of stuff with it set to 5...
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: ours is just fixed, wifey going to get it now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Booked it into the Garage in Pirbright
<bigcalm> popey: are you going to try and get 30mb cable?
<popey> no
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: fyi I used ACC in farnborough
<Romeo_> any ideas?
<bigcalm> Why not?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: oh, i bought mine there
<popey> bigcalm: because I doubt they will do it on mates rates
<popey> Romeo_: you may be better off asking in #ubuntu
<X3N> Romeo_: if you've just installed it might be quicker to try re-installing rather than trying to fix this
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I wanted it to go to a "proper" Volvo garage this time as a comparison.
<X3N> Romeo_: or in your terminal do "sudo service gdm restart"
<popey> ahhh
<bigcalm> popey: that's the thing, I think they will. But I don't want to call them incase they realise that our friend no longer works for VM
<popey> heh
<popey> ok, so you want me to call them to test that? :)
<popey> (My friend still works there)
<bigcalm> popey: you're a star :D
<popey> that was a question not an offer :D
<bigcalm> :P
<Romeo_> tried installing a few times :/
<popey> I'll email them
<bigcalm> popey: I'll bring you Metroid Prime 3 : Corruption for oggcamp
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Cheers mukka
<bigcalm> Exception caught: E_HUNGER
 * bigcalm lunches
<popey> bigcalm: mail sent, will let you know how it goes
<popey> bigcalm: got a reply already :)
<popey> bigcalm: you have to phone 150 and pay 30 quid one off fee for the hardware upgrade, then its the same price each month
<MartijnVdS> Minecrafters: http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/collectibles/e7fa/?cpg=fbl_e7fa
<popey> oooo
<popey> i now realise why Mark Shuttleworth is in Moscow
<popey> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/04/13/cosmonauts-day-in-mo.htm
<Laney> 404!!!!!
 * Laney spanks an 'l' on the end
<popey> bah
<gord> i forget mark has been in space sometimes...
<gord> no one believes that i work for a spaceman :(
<popey> heh
<matti> issyl0: Yes?
<issyl0> matti: Just saying hi.  :-)
<matti> issyl0: Oh, OK :) *hug*
 * Laney wiggles
<MartijnVdS> Laney: !family :P
 * Laney waggles?
<oimon> anyone know if it's possible to get o2 contracts for android phones at 10 or 15 Â£ per month?
<MartijnVdS> http://i.qkme.me/1r6b.jpg
<directhex> oimon, sim on its own, or with a device?
<oimon> my sis wants a htc desire on o2
<oimon> tmob do contract for Â£15pm, but she wants o2
<willy1977> oimon: you'd end up paying around 150 for the desire on that price contract on o2
<oimon> :( ripoff
<willy1977> 27.00 a month and it becomes free.
<willy1977> GBp ^^^
<directhex> oimon, yes, if you pay for the phone and have a 24 month contract.
<willy1977> oh and they're 24month contracts
<oimon> think i'm gonna suggest she changes the network..
<directhex> oimon, HTC Desire on O2 is Â£149.99 up front, plus Â£16.50 per month (500 meg of data for that)
<popey> oimon: get her to look at giffgaff?
<directhex> popey, giffgaff is sim-only, so she needs Â£400 for the phone up front
<popey> oh yeah
<oimon> directhex: which site? o2 or a reseller?
<directhex> oimon, o2.
<directhex> i don't look at resellers
<oimon> 50mins and 250texts...tmob is 300 mins, 300 txt for Â£15.32, and the phone is about Â£100 less
<oimon> o2 must think people are mugs
<popey> people are
<directhex> um... yes, they do
<directhex> o2 drew people in with the iphone exclusivity
<willy1977> it's the we're the only provider that do iPhone... what do you mean orange have it mindset...
<oimon> my mrs used to be on o2, when she cancelled the contract, they continued to charge us for 3 months until we noticed - they wouldn't pay us back either
<willy1977> o2 is the best network for me at home :(
<oimon> so o2 are banned in our house (along with british gas and virgin media)
<willy1977> gritsih bas don't talk to me about that shower...
<Laney> you should try writing angry tweets at them
<Laney> usually gets a response these days
<oimon> i received a computerised phone call from Ken's Daughter yesterday. it said i have a message for oimon, are you oimon: "yes" ..sorry i did not understand, goodbye
<oimon> turned out, after googling the number, that it was thames water..not ken's daughter
<MartijnVdS> oimon: aww
 * willy1977 off to tweet angrily at british gas
<directhex> oimon, my next mobile phone hinges on which network i can buy it on. if it's o2-only, and not available sim-free, then i just won't get the device i want. will need something else
<Laney> tweeted at my expensive headphone manufacturer, got in touch with their customer service manager and a speedy replacement :-)
<oimon> how can companies reply quickly to tweets but not emails?
<directhex> Laney, i got some free pizza from dominos via twitter :p
<oimon> food via http: hmmm
<Laney> because tweets are public
<directhex> oimon, twitter is public. when you say "o2 sucks because they ate my baby", lots of people see it
<Laney> even better is if your blog post gets picked up by some media
<directhex> whereas shouting down the phone, at best your neighbours hear it
<oimon> :(
<directhex> and email... /dev/null hears it
<oimon> yeah
<Laney> devnull is a very good listener
<directhex> so i tweet when annoyed. sometimes it helps
<Laney> never interrupts
<directhex> badum-tish!
<Romeo_> couple of questions, is the latest ubuntu 10.10? or 11.10? and what version is the netbook for? laptops?
<popey> !latest
<lubotu3> Packages in Ubuntu may not be the latest. Ubuntu aims for stability, so "latest" may not be a good idea. Post-release updates are only considered if they are fixes for security vulnerabilities, high impact bug fixes, or unintrusive bug fixes with substantial benefit. See also !backports, !sru, and !ppa.
<popey> oh, drat
<popey> Romeo_: latest release is 10.10
<popey> released in october last year
<popey> next release is due in april, so 11.04
<Romeo_> when i start ubuntu on the select screen it says generic 22 but after the updates it says 28, anyway of getting this from a latest download of ubuntu
<directhex> Romeo_, no. they don't re-burn the images with the latest packages, as mastering the discs takes time & needs testing
<Laney> with the exception of LTS releases, which do have point release updates
<directhex> yes, that
<Romeo_> cause im having problems installing ubuntu it wount load, but i load on recovery mode failsave with low graphics then update all packages its fine
<Laney> doesn't the installer have the ability to update during installation these days?
<directhex> Laney, won't help with drivers though
<willy1977> it does if you have a connection.
<Romeo_> might need to do that then
<directhex> Romeo_, it sounds like your best bet might be to use the latest beta for 11.04
<Laney> if the graphical installer works for you then do that, otherwise yeah â try the beta
<Laney> but haven't you already managed to get it updated and working?
<Romeo_> 1104 is the latest? thought it was 10.10? is 10.10 official and 11.04 beta?
<Laney> yeah
<Romeo_> ok thanx, is it possible to download 11.04 from somewhere and burn it to disk /usb?
<popey> Romeo_: 11.04 isnt the latest
<popey> I said 10.10 is the latest
<brobostigon> cdimages.ubuntu.com and use something like unetbootin or startup disk creator.
<popey> 11.04 isn't finished yet
<popey> !natty
<lubotu3> Natty Narwhal is the codename for Ubuntu 11.04, due April 28 2011. Help and support (only) in #ubuntu+1. Natty is beta and is not currently intended for production systems.
<popey> ^^^
<Romeo_> you guys using 10.10 or 11.04
<brobostigon> natty here.
<popey> I am using 11.04 and 10.04
<Romeo_> whats 11.04 like compare to 10.10?
<popey> different
<brobostigon> Romeo_: that is a complex question to ask.
<directhex> newer. which is important when you have driver woe
<hamitron> o/
<Romeo_> how is it?
<popey> http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/2011/04/21 "Skynet is destined to go online a few days earlier on April 19, 2011 at 20:11." Same release date as Portal 2...
<Romeo_> i want to try 11.04 if its a beta and crap then ill stay with 10.10 if its good and stable ill try it
<brobostigon> Romeo_: i am using gnome3/gnome-shell here, unity is stanard innatty, so dont listen to me.
<popey> lots of buzzwords there brobostigon
<popey> s/buzzwords/jargon :)
<brobostigon> Romeo_: make a live usb and or cd as i desicribed, andplay and see, no risk testing.
<brobostigon> popey: good point,
<Romeo_> im new to ubuntu so you saying you using gnome3/gnome-shell means nothing to me
<brobostigon> Romeo_: so for the language,
<brobostigon> sorry*
<popey> Romeo_: grab a copy of the beta of 11.04, put it on a usb stick with unetbootin and boot from it. if the GUI works, then maybe 11.04 is for you
<popey> but it's not released/finished yet
<Romeo_> no probs we all adults
<popey> so bugs about
<popey> !usb
<lubotu3> For information about installing Ubuntu from USB flash drives, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick - For a persistent live USB install, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent
<Romeo_> unebootin?
<brobostigon> !unetbootin
<brobostigon> !info unetbootin
<lubotu3> unetbootin (source: unetbootin): installer of Linux/BSD distributions to a partition or USB drive. In component universe, is optional. Version 471-1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 274 kB, installed size 808 kB
<popey> its detailed on that page
<popey> maybe
<Romeo_> i used universal usb thingy to put ubuntu on usb stick but it says boot error on my laptop, but its ok on pc
<popey> unetbootin is a free download
<popey> its quite simple
<popey> point it at an ISO image and a USB stick and you're done
<hamitron> easier than burning an ISO
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: you don't even have to point it at an ISO -- it'll download it for you
<popey> not natty it wont MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> hamitron: and it is reusable, :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: ah yes, good point
<smittix> Humble Bundle Is awesome
<popey> smittix: unless you have an intel video card
<directhex> popey, there's one little thing i should point out in defense of that
<popey> oh?
<directhex> popey, they don't support intel graphics on *any* os
<oimon> all the H.I.B. games i've tried have been fine on intel
<popey> heh
<directhex> Graphics: Radeon X800 or GeForce 6800 or better
<oimon> directhex: is that the new bundle, or the requirements for running unity :P
<directhex> oimon, trine.
<directhex> trine has more than 10 polygons on screen at once, so it should be obvious intel can't cope
<oimon> win 4.22, mac 6.08, linux 11.82 average prices so far..
<ali1234> i hate when they say "x or better" - because clearly any intel graphics card is "better" than anything ati have ever made
<directhex> i hear in 2015 intel might push the envelope to 15 polygons, with up to 3 of them lit and textured!
<oimon> the games look a bit like old school games ..in a good way. FPS a boring
 * oimon gets back to trying autotune out on audacity :P
<smittix> oiman is that a plugin?
<oimon> yes
<smittix> link?
<ali1234> so wait, the new humble bundle actually only has two games in it?
<directhex> ali1234, three.
<directhex> ali1234, plus a pre-order for a 4th. plus source and assets to build your own 54th.
<directhex> 5th
<ali1234> two games, an expansion pack for one of them, one that's not finished, and one that's been cancelled
<directhex> survivor is a sequel, not an expansion pack
<directhex> feel free to pay retail if you prefer: http://store.steampowered.com/sub/6957/
<oimon> smittix: haven't installed it yet (have a meeting to go to at 2pm), but rading up on it, here is some initial info, http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=50171 i had another link somewhere but can't find it atm
<smittix> oimon: Awesome thanks
<ali1234> directhex: that's not retail, steam is cheaper than the "$50 if bought separately" that they claim
<davmor2> czajkowski: you back from your nap yet?
<smittix> Jack Claw: Please note a xbox 360 controller is needed to play this game
<smittix> bah
<directhex> smittix, it's a prototype with source. add keyboard support!
<directhex> also, compile for non-windows
<directhex> ali1234, i find it weird that you're complaining about the poor value of "whatever you want to pay"
<smittix> HEH
<ali1234> i'm not complaining about poor value, i'm complaining about poor quality
<ali1234> tbh i wouldn't download either of these games even if they were free
<ali1234> also i want back the 5 minutes i spent watching the gameplay videos
<seeker> ali1234: You should probably just go back to sleep if you don't want to risk encountering things that are not 100% perfect
<hamitron> games?
<hamitron> :D
<gord> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13060548 - i for one am completely supportive of Japanese companies building our internet infrastructure. they dont' mess around
<ali1234> can't be worse than BT
<Daviey> gord, really?  The fact that they like to make their own standards?  Almost as bad as the US.
<gord> nothing is worse than bt
<gord> Daviey, i don't care, i have 2mbit, its 2011 and i have 2mbit
<hamitron> I would save the Â£500 million ;/
<Daviey> gord, heh... you need fibre 'almost to your door'.. giving at least 3.5mbit.
<hamitron> our country is falling on its knees, I don't consider higher speed internet a priority
<Azelphur> willy1977: yay, they mailed me a class 2 card.
<Azelphur> I bought a class 10.
<popey> a friend of mine made a game for pyweek
<popey> it looks like fun
<popey> I haven't played it yet
<gord> i miss pyweek :(
<popey> http://www.pyweek.org/e/TeamWasabi/
<popey> two player painting game
<directhex> i get 18mbit Â¬_Â¬
<directhex> i'd get almost double if i made bt my isp
<willy1977> Azelphur: ?
<Azelphur> you know the micro sd card saga with ws inspire :p
<Azelphur> I think it was you I saw talking to? :D
<willy1977> yeah - sorry slept since then :D
<willy1977> well that was "nice" of them!
<Azelphur> indeed!
<Azelphur> gonna call them again xD
<hamitron> directhex: who you with?
<directhex> hamitron, be
<ali1234> popey: now that looks like a good game...
<BigRedS> wq
<BigRedS> oop
<popey> ali1234: apparently the game dynamic is a bit broken in that it's more fun and easier to spoil the other persons work than do your own
<ali1234> i don't see why that is "broken"
<ali1234> anyway at least it's slightly original
<Azelphur> popey: the ubuntu-uk minecraft server runs on 512mb ram right?
<popey> no
<Azelphur> how much? o.O
<dogmatic69> 2gig min ?
<hamitron> popey: think the phrase you were looking for is "hell no!!!"
<dogmatic69> that is what the docs say
<Azelphur> oh :o
 * dogmatic69 has a 256mb slice with 10.10 x64 running it though :)
<directhex> java eats ram
 * hamitron blames java
<hamitron> directhex beat me to it :/
<smittix> Is minecraft any good?
<dogmatic69> and yet, google thought a java vm on a phone is good?
<popey>  4011 minecraf  20   0 2761m 977m 7820 S    8 32.4 119:52.60 java
<directhex> people call java bloated because it is. it consumes ram in vast quantities.
<dogmatic69> smittix: o.o
<Laney> 12510 laney     20   0 1580m 1.1g 1436 S    1 28.2 117:29.67 java
<directhex> dogmatic69, and palm decided on javascript!
<willy1977> smittix: minecrack...
<popey> Mem:   3088160k total,  2912668k used,   175492k free,   259352k buffers
<popey> Swap:  4805624k total,   258616k used,  4547008k free,  1275488k cached
<popey> ^^ Azelphur
<directhex> smittix, it's not so much a game as a lego box that sometimes explodes
<Azelphur> useful unit of measurement is useful
 * Laney has -Xm{x,s}1024M
<dogmatic69> directhex: android would have wiped the market out if it was some compiled version of c/c++
<popey> java -server -Xmn512M -Xms1024M -Xmx2500M -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC -XX:+DisableExplicitGC -XX:+UseAdaptiveGCBoundary -XX:MaxGCPauseMillis=500 -XX:-UseGCOverheadLimit -XX:SurvivorRatio=16 -Xnoclassgc -XX:UseSSE=3 -XX:ParallelGCThreads=3 -jar minecraft_server.jar nogui
<Azelphur> woa, that's a lot of options I don't use o.O
<dogmatic69> apt-get install <androidstuff> :D
<ali1234> dogmatic69: use android NDK then
<smittix> How much is it?
<dogmatic69> yes, that is root + hack to do something it should do out the box
<directhex> dogmatic69, seen the venchmarks of dalvik vs mono? ;)
<ali1234> whenever i use those -Xm options java just crashes
<dogmatic69> directhex: nope? any links?
<hamitron> more I think about it, it was good move by MS getting into bed with nokia
<directhex> dogmatic69, http://www.koushikdutta.com/2009/01/dalvik-vs-mono.html
<Azelphur> popey: java -Xincgc -Xmx2G -jar craftbukkit-0.0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar is all I use, haha
<dogmatic69> tx
<ali1234> hamitron: good for MS, bad for nokia
<directhex> dogmatic69, koush is the guy behind rom manager
<hamitron> ali1234: yeh
<hamitron> basically leaving a slow android and iOS to beat
<Azelphur> popey: what does all those options do? :)
<hamitron> or attempt to
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> dogmatic69, note: these tests predate the dalvik JITter
<hamitron> brb, phone :/
<ali1234> i want to see dalvik vs mono vs native machine code benchmark pls
<ali1234> using modern versions of each
<directhex> oh christ on a bike, off on "EVERYONE SHOULD WRITE BINARY MANUALLY" again
<andylockran> hey guys
<andylockran> I'm wondering if it makes sense /is possible, to do a 2way rsync.. keeping the newest files.
<BigRedS> andylockran: csync does that
<directhex> unison!
<BigRedS> but does break in all sorts of ways frequently
<dogmatic69> ali1234: i want to see my *nix running phone able to do ./configure && make && make install with no VM's running java crap
 * smittix goes to investigate minecraft
<andylockran> directhex: unison the best call?
<directhex> unison sucks. but we use it in the office
<dogmatic69> smittix: best 15 bucks you can spend
<andylockran> lol
<andylockran> at least yourre honest
<ali1234> yes, everyone should write machine code with hex editor
<directhex> really? you can get bioshock 1 and 2 and some beer for 15 bucks
<dogmatic69> pfsh
<directhex> hex editor? wuss. chaos butterflies are the true test of a developer
<dogmatic69> directhex: buy minecraft and you wont have time for beer...
<smittix> I don't like bioshock ;)
<hamitron> ali1234: \o/ nutter ;)
<hamitron> I agree with the principle though
<hamitron> google have shown how using the likes of java can be an advantage, having fast development. now they just need to start re-coding some of the things done in proper code, so it does all slow down to a crawl and get a bad name
<directhex> hamitron, some of their worst code is their non-java code, though.
<hamitron> directhex: probably, but I was just generalising
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> can write bad code in any language
<hamitron> need to get off the interpretated onto the compiled machine code
<directhex> their kernel is the home of their worst mistakes
<hamitron> especially if the world is suppose to be wanting to be more energy efficient
<hamitron> supposed*
<hamitron> putting aside the cost of energy worldwide, it makes sense to use less in portable devices
<oimon> showed my wife the gnome shell live cd the other day
<oimon> took her less than 10 seconds to decide she didn't like it
<popey> what did she try?
<brobostigon> oimon: how old or new was/is the cd?
<oimon> popey:  it wasn't immediately obvious how you launch apps, since the launcher doesn't display by default
<oimon> brobostigon: the new one, based off fedora
<brobostigon> oimon: what is the build date?
<oimon> date of download on my machine is 2011-04-07
<brobostigon> oimon: that isnt quite what i was loking for,
<oimon> brobostigon: it was the one on the gnome 3 site
<smittix> Heh Unity - http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/84008
<oimon> downlaoded a few days ago.
<brobostigon> oimon: let me look it up.
<oimon> the issue is that the launcher isn't visible by default, you have to click in the corner. as far as she's concerned, it's too many clicks and not worth the bother
<brobostigon> oimon: or just swipe up with your mouse,and or hit superkey, for example.
<oimon> i showed her unity, and she's going to try it when i upgrade a few months after natty gets released, but i reckon she will prefer gnome classic. average users don't want funky stuff and paradigm shifts
<brobostigon> oimon: build date is a week ago, it should be basicllycomplete then.
<popey> i dont think thats a valid argument oimon
<popey> end users want a working system
<popey> and to be able to get to their data/apps
<oimon> popey: yes, true of course. and if it is working now, then they don't want to change for change sake
<popey> aaaargh
<popey> i hate that phrase
<popey> nobody changes the desktop "for changes sake"
<popey> they do it for perfectly valid reasons
<bigcalm> popey: please apply that statement to the window buttons :P
<brobostigon> i changed, because i liked the improvements, and they improved my usability of the system.
<popey> look at unity and tell me the buttons on the right makes sense
<oimon> worked for UNE
<bigcalm> _ [] X is what I was refering to
<davmor2> popey: nope not with everything top left
<popey> bigcalm: yes, i know
<popey> davmor2: that was my point
<bigcalm> Ah, ok. I'll let you know when I use unity again :)
<davmor2> popey: it's most annoying when you have to use a windows box everything is in the wrong place
<popey> heh
<oimon> if a user uses apps menu, quicklaunch shortcuts and the regular windows list panel, it's quite a jump for them to move to a new way of thinking, when there isn't an obvious benefit to them
<popey> people manage by going from windows 3.1 to 95 to xp to 7
<popey> and from windows to osx
<hamitron> and it was all hassle and required re-training of the idiots! ;)
<popey> frequently I hear "oh, they changed that, that sucks" then carry on using it
<popey> my wife (or idiot as you put it) didn't need retraining much when she went xp -> debian -> ubuntu -> osx
 * hamitron uses what is there and doesn't care
<willy1977> try to embrace change... but I just cannot get on with unity yet... :/
<hamitron> my gf still asks me "is the return key the funny shaped one" when i am telling her what to type
<hamitron> :/
<oimon> how many people were upset about new twitter and wanted to keep old twitter?
<oimon> loads
<popey> and then carried on regardless
<popey> people hate change
<popey> but when you actually push them they're quite able to cope
<popey> they _say_ they can't, but they can
<oimon> if there isn't a perceived benefit, i'm not surprised
<popey> they whinge and moan, but then get on with it
<brobostigon> some change is for the better, and good.
<popey> then their perception needs adjustment :)
<Myrtti> dabr ftw
<willy1977> hummm I agree in the most part but I curse  office 2010 ribbon whenever I try and find anything...
<oimon> which side are your buttons on?
<willy1977> my point being that sometimes the change is flawed...
<davmor2> oimon: What phone do you have?  What phone did you have before?  was there a perceivable difference did you manage to cope with the change?
<dogmatic69> willy1977: i liked the ribbon thing. more space for stufff
<oimon> davmor2: the phone wasn't forced on me. i upgraded from a dumpphone to a smartphone to gain features
<popey> I'm thinking of moving my mum to unity when its out
<hamitron> popey: I get your point, but still hate having to change my habbits :)
<popey> so do I if they are good habbits
<popey> e.g. I hate that I can't use focus follows mouse on unity
<willy1977> dogmatic69: I just can't find anything that used to be on a the little tool bar... so I guess popey's point still remains I cope... it's negatively affected my view of office.
<X3N> agh why does natty have /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu this is causing such a headache
<oimon> why are users of gnome shell required to ditch the minimise button? minimise still "works", whether the purists will question what it does
<davmor2> oimon: this isn't forced on you,  you can stick to using maverick
<dogmatic69> dont like the new unity thing at all :/
<dogmatic69> used it for a few months on netbook
<davmor2> oimon: infact you could of stuck to using lucid for 3 years
 * hamitron is still using lucid ;)
<oimon> davmor2: and then what?
<brobostigon> oimon: you dont, you can still have it there, it ustisnt there as standard, and is a waste.
<oimon> brobostigon: minimise isn't a waste. the title bars on gnome shell are enormous
<oimon> you could have 50 buttons on there
<brobostigon> oimon: not here in natty with gnome-shell they arent, theyare alittle big as a direct from svn build, yes.
<davmor2> oimon: keep using it,  you don't have to upgrade you do it for benefits like updated application and ermmm desktops
<brobostigon> oimon: and why have minimise, if there isnt anything to actually minimise too. ?, good question isnt it.
<popey> i use minimise to get things out of my way
<oimon> let's wait till natty day and see what the reviews say
<popey> I'd wait till a while after that :)
<popey> day one reviews are often "WTF!"
<oimon> ok
<popey> but once people use it for a while, many come around
<oimon> point taken
<X3N> I thought natty would be more ready given the intended release date
<brobostigon> popey: i was refferring to a traditional desktop no longer being there, nd no longer having to minimise for such a function.
<popey> how do you get stuff out of the way then?
<brobostigon> popey: i switch to another window.
<czajkowski> davmor2: kinda
<oimon> i wonder if it's possible to get rid of global menu in unity (i know you can in gnome classic)
<czajkowski> playing with the roomba
<czajkowski> it's a lot of fun
<popey> no, i want to push that out of the way
<popey> it is oimon
<brobostigon> popey: i dont understand what you mean, sorry.
<Myrtti> the point of old twitter vs. new twitter and how people can cope with the change is not valid tho, the usebase for twitter is quite young and the flexibility of the mind to adopt new ways of doing stuff seems to go by the years
<popey> brobostigon: i want to minimise something for a specific reason, not because I want to "alt-tab" to something else, but I want to dismiss a window for some hours
<popey> and come back to it later
<oimon> popey: how would you feel if unity got rid of the minimise button?
<Myrtti> just last week I had to deal with a crying old person in the grocery shop who was in panic because they thought couldn't use the ATM anymore, because they had added an extra button for donating one euro to charity
<popey> i haven't tried gnome 3 so dunno how i feel about losing minimise
<popey> hence asking
<popey> i know i use it, dunno how much I use it
<davmor2> popey: on gnome-shell there argument if I understand it is that is what you're other desktop is for, and on unity you just minimise to the launcher,  or super-d
<oimon> Myrtti: a hug and a cup of tea should fix that bug :)
<hamitron> Myrtti: isn't Ubuntu young? or am i just getting old? ;)
<brobostigon> popey: i take the tactic, and shove it on a diferent workspace, untill i want it again, infact,
<hamitron> oimon: and cakes
<popey> hmmm
<BigRedS> brobostigon: doesn't that take longer than minimising?
<oimon> popey: there's a gconftool command you can run to hide your minimise.
<BigRedS> I suppose there's keyboard shortcuts...
<popey> on windows i minimise a _lot_
<popey> ALT+Space, M
<hamitron> and cry \o/
<popey> maybe thats a limitation of the XP UI, dunno
<popey> I haven't analysed it
<popey> which is why I'm asking how people deal with not having a minimise option
<oimon> XP, gnome2, i would use iminimise the same amount
<popey> yeah, same here
<brobostigon> BigRedS: not really, just alttab to it again, got it back, then go back again, and its gone, quick.
<Myrtti> hamitron: the UX paradigm most people use is a good 20 years old
<popey> i like minimising because it's "dismising" stuff
<oimon> popey: i dealt with it by finding the command to "fix it" and put it back
<popey> i like to dismiss windows
<popey> but know its still around somewhere if i need it
<popey> i find alt-tab behaviour on ubuntu/gnome/compiz to be odd
<popey> i prefer the windows xp way
<popey> if I minimise something it goes to the bottom of the stack
<popey> alt-tab will toggle between two most recently windows/apps
<popey> also alt-tab on xp is very fast, on ubuntu less so
<brobostigon> in gnome-shell alt-tab categorises to eachworkspace. and then the apps on theose workspaces.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone have a recent Natty working (with unity) in VBox
<Myrtti> I had to set Ubuntu to be as Windows 2000/XP/98 like as possible to minimize the need of re-educating my sister on how the UX works, and I'm afraid of the day I can't set the main bar on the bottom, Ubuntu button on left, and the min-max-close buttons on the right top corner
<popey> nop
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i have it on native hardware, not in vm
<hamitron> good job MS are forcing people to "change" onto 7 then popey ;)
<popey> I have resisted that so far
<davmor2> popey: I like the double tap on an icon in the launcher in unity to show only those application windows very nice
<popey> i dont like that at all
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I am bringing my best mate to the beerex. Was best man at my wedding 10 years ago, and has been my "wingman" for years
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I apologise in advance
<popey> (for me, not him)
<davmor2> popey: Why?  I like it due to the fact that I normally have a couple of terminal windows open at any one time and it makes it really clear which is the one with code running and which isn't :)
<popey> open more than two
<popey> see if it's so easy to spot
<popey> try 8
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is he of the non-geek variety then popey ?
<popey> yes
<oimon> i have 20 right now
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh dear
<popey> car fan
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh dear Oh dear
<popey> cars / football / beer / curry
<danfish> 'noon
<popey> very nice chap
<popey> recruitment guy
<popey> :S
<popey> dont hold that against him :)
<danfish> popey's takin clarkson :)
<davmor2> popey: yeap 8 is still easy
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2 out of 4 is OK then
<popey> heh
<hamitron> davmor2: try 30
<popey> davmor2: what resolution screen?
<hamitron> ;/
<danfish> time to install chillicam - like watching paint dry but hotter ;)
<danfish> chillicam = a joggler with a webcam attached
<popey> :)
<davmor2> popey: 1280x800 on a 15.6 screen
<oimon> it's a shame when the only way to find out about new hires and departures at your palce of work is to check linkedin
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: few more than that
<AlanBell> Alan,Alan,Alan,Gary,Jon,Lanky,Dave is the full lineup
<popey> AlanBell: i think he means two out of four attributes
<AlanBell> oh yeah
<popey> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> (15:49:54) popey: cars / football / beer / curry
<TheOpenSourcerer> (15:50:13) TheOpenSourcerer: 2 out of 4 is OK then
<davmor2> popey: 2 sets of 3 and 2 underneath all quite visible
<AlanBell> geek,geek,geek,notgeek,geek,geek,notgeek
<hamitron> cars, football and beer are ok ;/
<TheOpenSourcerer> I would really like to try Natty but as it doesn't work in VBox I can't be arsed.
<AlanBell> it does work in vbox
<TheOpenSourcerer> With unity?
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: don't come crying to us when you find bugs after release date ;)
<AlanBell> in the guest install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11
<AlanBell> yes, with unity and full compiz bling
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK. TY
<AlanBell> I might have that package name slightly wrong
 * TheOpenSourcerer boots the VM in recovery mode again.
<AlanBell> don't attempt to use the guest additions installer thing
<AlanBell> the right guest graphics driver is in the natty repos
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - too late.
<gord> it would sure be nice if vbox contributed code to x11 or something to get the guest additions stuff in by default, that would rock
<AlanBell> it *is* in by default
<davmor2> hamitron: at that point no visual indicator other than alt-tab highlighting the window would help
<AlanBell> ok, not in X perhaps
<BigRedS> AlanBell: is that not even doing 'apt-get install virtualbox-guest-additions' ?
<AlanBell> BigRedS: yeah, don't do that
<AlanBell> that is a package you install on the host anyway
<BigRedS> it is?
<BigRedS> I thought it's description suggested it was for guests
<AlanBell> it contains the fake CD it can inject into the guest
<AlanBell> !info virtualbox-guest-additions
<lubotu3> virtualbox-guest-additions (source: virtualbox-guest-additions): guest additions iso image for VirtualBox. In component multiverse, is extra. Version 3.2.8-1 (maverick), package size 26817 kB, installed size 32860 kB
<AlanBell> does nothing inside a guest
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<BigRedS> I just didn't read the second paragraph :)
<AlanBell> !info virtualbox-ose-guest-x11
<lubotu3> virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 (source: virtualbox-ose): x86 virtualization solution - X11 guest utilities. In component universe, is extra. Version 3.2.8-dfsg-2ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 1197 kB, installed size 3908 kB (Only available for amd64 i386 lpia all)
<BigRedS> It seems logical that it'd be installed on the guest, to me
<AlanBell> that is the one you want, and you want it installed on the guest
<BigRedS> as in, that's where I'd expect to install the guest additions, and I thought the package just automated that
<BigRedS> ahhhh
<AlanBell> confusing as hell, sorry
<BigRedS> haha, it's not your fault!
<BigRedS> (but I'm gonna blame you anyway) :)
<popey> #blamebell
<davmor2> popey: still pretty clear and there are 18 here http://ubuntuone.com/p/mRu/
<popey> that is _so_ not clear
<popey> you wouldn't be able to tell one from another
<popey> the fact that yours all just show a default prompt shows that
<BigRedS> that's effectively useless
<oimon> sweeeeet , got global menu disabled in unity ..now to find out how to show the buttons on the right in maximised mode - anyone?
<davmor2> popey: 8 is fairly clear though it's about half the normal window size
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ty AlanBell - I now seem to have a Unity desktop.
<davmor2> beside you can still use alt-tab
<AlanBell> full of win \o/
<popey> as i said davmor2, alt-tab is painfully slow on ubuntu
<popey> approx half a second between pressing alt+tab, and the window appearing
<oimon> popey: i think it's a compiz thing
<popey> on a box running _nothing_
<TheOpenSourcerer> So, how do I configure the workspace switcher? I want more then 4
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: install compizconfig-settings-manager
<oimon> popey: after disabling compiz completely, speed returns
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, alt+f2 - about:config
<davmor2> popey: not here this is all intel hardware though so that might be why
<TheOpenSourcerer> Obvoius
<popey> great
<AlanBell> huh! about:config
<popey> thats the same thing I get from every single damned canonical employee
<popey> thats what irritates me more than anything
<popey> "works fine here"
<popey> great, magic, thanks.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope. Nothing
<gord> popey, no - alt+tab is slow, we know about it, its not an easy fix
<popey> not that, the "use intel" dismissive tone
<TheOpenSourcerer> about:config doesn't return anything
<oimon> i'm on intel..it's slow since 2008 for me
<popey> canonical may or may not be aware, but other video cards are available.
<gord> i would never ever reccomend anyone "use intel" ;)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: you need compizconfig-settings-manager
<TheOpenSourcerer> ok
 * popey wanders off in a huff :)
<gord> i would maybe suggest people set fire to intel chips, or blend them or something
<AlanBell> so does about:config try to run ccsm?
<popey> it runs one of the applets in there yeah
<gord> goes to ccsm -> unity plugin config
<gord> you can back out to the rest of the config options
<TheOpenSourcerer> WTF is the terminal?
<AlanBell> ctrl+alt+T
<oimon> according to mark s. : "Very, very few people change it [buttons on left/right], despite the ease with which it can be changed and the outcry when the left side was initially adopted in Ubuntu."
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: you still need compizconfig-settings-manager installed for the about:config to work
<TheOpenSourcerer> So, hang on. So far my questions have been responded too wit keyboard commands.
<AlanBell> yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why do we need a GUI at all.
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i have not given you any commands
<popey> i said install a package
<popey> the icon for software centre is a shopping bag
<AlanBell> you can click on the aplications thingie and find the terminal in there somewhere
<popey> you dont need a terminal :)
<gord> you can use the gui if you want, i just find it easier to convey keyboard commands over a text medium such as irc
<TheOpenSourcerer> It wasn't in Accessories.
<hamitron> eiiiwwww, popey: that suggests having to get ones wallet out ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: I *LIKE* the terminal
<popey> so do i
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have *lots open all the time
<popey> i was just countering your assertion that "So far my questions have been responded too wit keyboard commands."
<AlanBell> I find with Unity it is easier to open a terminal and start apps from there than find them in the unity menu
<popey> in fact my answer pre-dates all these other losers
<popey> :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: that is not very encouraging.
<BigRedS> AlanBell: I found that happened long ago, though with alt+f2 rather than a terminal
<oimon> AlanBell: lol
<BigRedS> but, yeah, apparently the natty menu is genuinely atrocious, rather than just as long-winded as menus tend to be
<popey> isnt the idea you type what you're looking for
<popey> not go rummaging for it
<oimon> maybe someone can create a menu for the launcher that works in the old style
<TheOpenSourcerer> And why do the right click popup menus and top bar look like a really old version of gnome or fluxbox?
<AlanBell> I have been hoping that as the GUI improves I would end up using it more
<BigRedS> popey: win7 style? that'd be cool
<oimon> AlanBell: i had been hoping that as i use it more, i would like it more
<TheOpenSourcerer> ZOMG!
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Once you have CCSM installed it shows up in system settings under the power icon (for some reason) or under applications lens, or under dash, or alt-f2 about:config as a shortcut,  does that help at all?
<hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer: fluxbox? that is teh first reason i've heard to move to it :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> You have to hover over the top bar to get the menu?
<BigRedS> moreso if the win key opened the menu, but I can imagine that annoying people for no reason other than MS doing it first
<AlanBell> best bit for me is that you have to touch pixel 0,0 top left to get the sidebar to pop out and stay out
<hamitron> omg no AlanBell :(
<popey> AlanBell: thats changed
<popey> you just throw mouse to the left
<hamitron> I use synergy and will stand no chance
<popey> not top left
<popey> and its configurable
<hamitron> ah :)
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> top left pixel wasn't too bad in theory, but when running in virtualbox you can't just fling the mouse in that direction and have it land on the right pixel
<davmor2> AlanBell: not any more just move your cursor to the left of the screen
 * AlanBell updates
<popey> there's a new ccms thing called "Launcher & Menus"
<popey> ccsm
<popey> CCMS is a SAP thing
<popey> which is why I have a real hard time remembering CCSM
<TheOpenSourcerer> So I can't drag a window to the left (or right) workspace?
<popey> i think thats right
<popey> grid overrides that
<popey> well, you can in expose
 * directhex moos. moo!
<popey> press meta+s
<popey> to get the expose view, then you can drag stuff about
<TheOpenSourcerer> WTF is meta?
<popey> windows key
<AlanBell> super
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<popey> oh, sorry, super
<BigRedS> I thought meta was normally alt?
<directhex> the EVIL KEY OF EVIL MONOPOLY$OFT >8\/
<AlanBell> the mono key
<hamitron> so why call it super? :/
<popey> Mine has a pretty cloverleaf on it
<BigRedS> directhex: no, the *handy* key of monopolysoft :)
<oimon> it's the tux key innit?
<oimon> should have kept my stash of penguin keys
<jpds> oimon: /sbin/init.
<TheOpenSourcerer> So I need that keypress to drag to another workspace?
<hamitron> mine looks more like St George's flag
<hamitron> \o/
<popey> yes
<popey> or you may need to fiddle with some compiz plugins
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can't see why I would want a full-height half-width terminal
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
<popey> you might want two windows
<popey> side by side
<popey> "Aero Snap" as some platforms call it
<BigRedS> terminator!
<gord> i find dragging to the edge quite useful
<directhex> oimon, i have a keyboard with a real tux key
<popey> and even have adverts about it
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was being sarcastic popey
<directhex> i like aero snap :<
<oimon> directhex: i used to have some too..forgot to keep the tux's !
<hamitron> directhex: seen them and so want one :)
<popey> as was I
<oimon> cheery keyboards i seem to recall
<oimon> cherry
<TheOpenSourcerer> Why does the UI look so old fashioned?
<BigRedS> I'd like a cheery keyboard
<directhex> oimon, bingo
<popey> i dont like the odd zoomy thing that aero snap has
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: no you don't need to keypress,  you can drag the mouse to the left of the screen and then clcik on the workspace icon and then drag and drop your app where ever
<popey> er grid
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just launched LibreOffice calc and it looks like Win 3.1
<AlanBell> I think a theme has failed to start
<directhex> http://www.easylinux.de/Artikel/ausgabe/2004/11/010-news/tastatur_frei.png
<popey> nah, it really does look dated
<popey> very big buttons in libreoffice
<hamitron> directhex: looks nasty :/
<hamitron> I like using A and Z for racing games :D
<popey> heheh
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://imgur.com/0CMgs
<directhex> hamitron, that's a german layout
<directhex> hamitron, mine's a uk keyboard
<directhex> hamitron, note: it's my spare now, i use a different main keyboard
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: looks like gnome-settings-daemon has crapped out
<hamitron> directhex: it is the keys down the left hand side are in the way :/
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, why do you have two panels? o_O
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno gord - didn't know I did.
<bigcalm> directhex: I don't use SIP, so can't comment on that. But when I was usng the RCs for CM7, the wifi sleep policy wasn't set to 'never'. That caused horrible battery life.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, looks like a gtk2 app on a system with only gtk3 themes. or somesuch.
<popey> its because gsd has crashed surely?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: ALT+F2, type gnome-settings-daemon, press enter
<davmor2> gord: because it is in a VM
<gord> thats the gnome-panel, you shouldn't have a gnome panel
<directhex> bigcalm, sleep when screen is off is the default
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Same.
<bigcalm> Tell it to never sleep
<bigcalm> Will save a lot of battery. Doesn't make sense, but works :)
<gord> oooh okay its a screenshot of a vm with the vm's menu okay
<gord> that makes more sense
<bigcalm> I checked my fiance's and her brother's Wildfire/Desire, both have wifi set to never sleep by default.
<bigcalm> In CM6, the default was to never sleep
<davmor2> gord, TheOpenSourcerer:  You running running it in Virtual box and for some reason I think you a non default icon set
<oimon> bigcalm: huh?
<bigcalm> I have no idea why the policy was changed in CM7
<bigcalm> oimon: yes?
<oimon> is this also an option on sense or just CM builds?
<bigcalm> oimon: all android
<gord> TheOpenSourcerer, if gsd is still running, maybe the theme just isnt' set. alt+f2 - gnome-appearance-properties - set the theme
<davmor2> oimon: it's in settings, wireless
<bigcalm> oimon: settings -> wifi -> menu
<oimon> settings wireless and networks?
<bigcalm> oimon: settings -> wireless and networks -> wifi settings -> menu -> advanced
<oimon> ah found it, under the advanced menu
<oimon> mine never sleeps
<oimon> is that good then?
<TheOpenSourcerer> tried that gord - still looks the same. But never mind.
<bigcalm> Matter of opinion. If you want your battery to last, then yes :)
<bigcalm> Not sure why it's an option at all
<TheOpenSourcerer> How is the launcher thing supposed to pop in and out. Seems a bit erratic to me...
<oimon> wifi uses less battery than 3g i assume
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> It would appear
<popey> yeah, wifi uses way less than 3g
<TheOpenSourcerer> (gnome-appearance-properties:2349): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_tree_model_sort_real_unref_node: assertion `elt->ref_count > 0' failed
<TheOpenSourcerer> Tried to select ambience.
<Azelphur> does Ubuntu by default stop brute force attacks on SSH?
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/unity-keyboard-mouse-shortcuts  is a pretty good resource for mouse and keyboard usage in unity
<TheOpenSourcerer> TY davmor2
<popey> Azelphur: ubuntu doesn't have ssh server by default
<Azelphur> good point
<Azelphur> I'll change my question to does openssh-server  stop bruce force attacks by default :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: I don't think so.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: by the way do you get the app launcher down the left hand side if not you might be in gnome classic
<popey> Azelphur: no
<TheOpenSourcerer> I always install denyhost
<oimon> i use fail2ban
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: cool, is that zero config? :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: pertty much yes.
<Azelphur> nice
<AlanBell> Azelphur: it is, if you don't mind locking yourself out
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sometimes AlanBell has to unlock himself
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<Azelphur> haha
<popey> :)
<popey> \o/ ssh keys
<AlanBell> otherwise put yourself in hosts.allow before you end up in hosts.deny
<Azelphur> it locks you out if you get the password wrong a bunch of times?
 * davmor2 I'm with TheOpenSourcerer I use denyhost 3 attempt and you can block for a period or black list completely
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I never get my passwords wrong because I copy and paste from a password safe or use ssh keys, so I shouldn't ever get to 3 incorrect inputs
<popey> alan@bishop:~$ wc -l /etc/hosts.deny
<popey> 4606 /etc/hosts.deny
<AlanBell> Azelphur: I never make mistakes either
<popey> I saw you drop a chip once
<popey> that was a mistake
<oimon> he was feeding a pigeon
<popey> ah
<popey> thats okay
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Bought a Toyota...
<AlanBell> ouch
<TheOpenSourcerer> sorry.
<popey> zoiks
<popey> you got rid of the volvo?
<AlanBell> the toyota is now a small cube of metal somewhere I expect
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a volvo popey
<directhex> i am so happy i got my toyota back from the body shop
<popey> oh i see
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not sure if AlanBell has ever had one
<AlanBell> he was poking fun at my toyota purchase
<oimon> i didn't think i made mistakes until i got married...then you realise how many selfish things you can do in one day
<popey> yes, it wasnt clear
<popey> looked like he was saying he'd bought one
<directhex> the courtesy car was... ungood
<AlanBell> I have never had a volvo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Pidgin adding a ":"
<AlanBell> is there a package or something that changes the halt command so that it needs the hostname?
<popey> haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh dear.
<AlanBell> so instead of sudo halt you have to type "sudo halt myhost"
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders which machine he has just stopped
<AlanBell> "playroom"
<AlanBell> not a big deal
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh good.
<popey> i never type sudo halt
<popey> ever
<popey> i forget that the command even exists
<oimon> AlanBell never makes mistakes...ever :P
<AlanBell> why not?
<popey> what purpose does it have?
<AlanBell> same as shutdown -h now
<popey> ah
<popey> i usually do that
<AlanBell> turns off the machine
<popey> more typing
<hamitron> Azelphur: is it safe copying and pasting passwords?
<oimon> alias halt='echo "are you sure? you are on `hostname`" '   ...etc
<Azelphur> hamitron: why wouldn't it be?
<hamitron> Azelphur: they not stored in the clipboard?
<oimon> a browser hack can reveal clipboard contents
<davmor2> AlanBell: can you not set it as a terminal variable maybe
<Azelphur> oimon: chrome doesn't let sites access the clipboard
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Yes - follow oimon 's suggestion and brush up your bash skills.
 * oimon used to type sync;sync;halt because of solaris pedigree
<Azelphur> hamitron: keepass automatically stales the clipboard after 30 seconds if it has a password in it, and it mitigates keyloggers
<danfish> hamitron: why the problem - my default root password is 'root'. No-one will ever guess :p
<popey> pfft
 * TheOpenSourcerer uses keypass. It seems to be pretty good. And it's on Android, Linux and Winblows
<popey> is my password
<popey> :)
 * popey uses lastpass
<hamitron> popey: not "pffft"?
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> if i want to be secure, yes
 * danfish uses post-it notes
<oimon> anyone else remember typing sync twice before halt?
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, keepass or keepassx?
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: the wind blows I never knew that
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: keypass or keepass? XD
 * hamitron likes pen and paper
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right - I have to go and prepare supper. Pork chops in a sauce probably
<popey> yum
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: X
<popey> ttfn
<Azelphur> cya :)
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, that's the Qt clone, right?
<Azelphur> yea I use keepassx and keepassdroid :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Think so.
<danfish> yum install keypass?
<directhex> http://ftp-master.debian.org/new/keepass2_2.15+dfsg-1.html
<oimon> http://www.somebits.com/weblog/tech/syncsync.html
<Myrtti> woo
<Myrtti> minecraft â¥
<directhex> i'm actually excited about 1.5
<oimon> just bit into a pear that tastes like a potato :(
<hamitron> directhex: why?
<directhex> hamitron, newer lwjgl, mainly
<danfish> oimon: if it tastes like a potato, it probably is a potato!
<hamitron> directhex: makes me none the wiser :)
 * oimon takes another tentative bite..yep..same hardnes, texture and earthy flavour
<directhex> hamitron, no more "running off a cliff" bug, for example
<danfish> oimon: mind you, pears at this time of year have been in storage for ages and probably are a bit 'mealy'
<oimon> have a whole bagful , hopefully stewing them will fix it
<danfish> oimon: add sugar or honey
<willy1977> oimon just chip and fry them...
<oimon> :)
<oimon> why do people use wordpress? writing blog posts seems horrible
<willy1977> writig blogs in wordpress you mean?
<willy1977> not just writing blogs in general?
<oimon> writing a new post in the wordpress website
<davmor2> oimon: because it's about as bad as writing them in any other server base opensource tool
<directhex> oimon, wordpress is great!
<oimon> maybe i'm holding it wrong
<willy1977> I like wordpress - but I do use a client based editor and push posts to it ;)
<oimon> choosing preformatted text doesn't then let you continue the post in paragraph style format
<oimon> hmmm.. worked on the 5th attempt
<Myrtti> ahihi
<Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsBon3DTwIY
<Myrtti> :-D
<oimon> ihihihhi
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: aww
<davmor2> popey: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/want-to-see-minecraft-in-the-ubuntu-software-centre-let-mojang-know/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28Omg!+Ubuntu!%29
<Myrtti> omgubuntu :-<
<Myrtti> TLDR, is there a link to click that doesn't end up in omgubuntu?
<dutchie> http://getsatisfaction.com/mojang/topics/minecraft_in_the_default_ubuntu_and_other_linuxes_repository
<Myrtti> â¥ thank you
 * willy1977 will bbl housework dependent :/
<smittix> well Trine is a pretty decent game
<smittix> Except my mouse is a bit laggy under natty
<Guest44825> i have a system that won't start :(     - It says 'the disk at / is not ready, press 's' (to skip)or 'm' (for manaul fix). 'S' just does nothing. What would I need to correct manually?
<AlanBell> Guest44825: that sounds bad, what happened?
<AlanBell> and what system was it?
<Guest44825> I updaated and it got stuck, but said it needed rebooting - so i did, and now it sems dead..
<Guest44825> 10.04 maverick is it?
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> what happens when you press m?
<Guest44825> gives me root prompt but read only - although I can boot livecd if I new what to correct...
<AlanBell> probably need to do fsck
<Guest44825> i have, that says its clean
<AlanBell> I think it is a disk uuid problem
<X3N> wow even my compiler is crashing on natty
<AlanBell> Guest44825: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1541084&page=1
<Guest44825> i cant run apt-get upgrade when read only to finish the update - if thats what broke it.. uuid's match from what i can tell - I'll read that
<AlanBell> check that fstab and /dev/disk/by-uuid  die up
<AlanBell> tie up
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> 0 9,21 * * * /usr/local/bin/mirrorbuild.sh > /tmp/mirrorupdatelog 2>&1
<kaushal> I have a issue here about the process being stopped
<kaushal> i mean the process which gets invoked still runs till 21 hrs
<kaushal> How do i prevent it
<kaushal> invoked at 9
<Myrtti> hum
<Myrtti> "whoops" http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/13/hacker-gains-access-to-wordpress-com-servers/
<AlanBell> that is a bit of an issue
<AlanBell> PHP is rather spectacularly architecturally flawed sadly
<dutchie> this is why everyone should use dutchieblog
<dutchie> never been hacked! (probably)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I prefer to call it "building on a swamp"
<hamitron> "probably", haha
<stuphi> kaushal: http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/run-one
<smittix> has anyone else had problems dragging files to external storage in natty?
<smittix> I can copy and paste the same files but dragging and dropping just doesnt work :
<phonex01> hello guys
<MartijnVdS> wow.. my compiz was 6GB
<phonex01> today i saw a guy using his phone to control powerpoint slides i think he use some kind of software that linked using Bluetooth
<phonex01> anyone tried that before ?
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: sonunds possible
<JGJones> Yeah done it years ago
<MartijnVdS> there's a plugin for Libreoffice/openoffice
<MartijnVdS> and an app for some phone models
<JGJones> Although that was on Windows
<MartijnVdS> I've had it work on Uubntu
<phonex01> what is the name of that library ?
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu
<JGJones> with a Sony Ericsson Z61 phone
<phonex01> can i use on Nokia C3 ?
<Myrtti> even old Nokia phones had a remote for Ubuntu slides
<phonex01> how !
<phonex01> is that ?
<Myrtti> now if only I'd remember the name
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BluetoothRemoteControl
<Myrtti> ah yes, amora
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: simple wiki search
<phonex01> hahah im read that right now
<phonex01> i did that
<phonex01> but it says that it support Ericsson phones ?
<MartijnVdS> phonex01: https://market.android.com/details?id=ratisbonsoft.presenter.full
<zleap> 11.04 is looking pretty good,  (just fired up daily release from yesterday)
<Myrtti> "you're welcome"
<zleap> not sure if I will upgrade till i have a hard ware upgrade
<zleap> it may go on my netbook though,  but may have to download the netbook specific version
<zleap> hello
<davmor2> zleap: hello
<zleap> hi, hows you
<davmor2> zleap: there is no netbook version any more it's an all in one
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i just fired up evolution and the next button was off screen until i think i got it to maximise then it sorted it self out
<davmor2> zleap: it's been that way for a while there is an old bug for that
<zleap> ah
<davmor2> you can also alt-grab with the mouse and move it up to get the button too
<zleap> ok,  will take a look
<zleap> just checked out which version i need for a kids book on learning python, so may install python 3 at a local youth project ( I am helping to sort out computers for em)  and copy the snake wrangling for kids book 0.7.7 as that covers ver 3
<zleap> see if one of the kids wants to learn python
<ali1234> i just found this rant by a game "developer" after rading about the gmod thing today: http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663
<ali1234> there are some really hilariously dumb things in that
<ali1234> "he realized that he'd forgotten to re-install his BIOS update after he  wiped the machine.  He fixed that, all his crashes went away."
<ali1234> for example this ^
<ali1234> i didn't realise that reinstalling windows also resets your bios back to the factory version
<zleap> it does
<zleap> erk
<zleap> why is windows even touching the bios
<ali1234> it isn't, the guy is talking rubbish
<ali1234> then he goes on to talk about how users saying "it can't possibly be my fault"
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> you would think a game developer would make sense on the subject eh
<ali1234> tbh i wouldn't
<ali1234> so many developers think they are shit hot and can do no wrong
<zleap> that seems to apply to many topics
<zleap> look at web design,  you get good sites, and others that are full of flash, but look great, but take aeons to load
<ali1234> lol web designers
<ali1234> they are some of the worst
<ali1234> especially the ones who think they are developers when they only know html and css
<ali1234> and sometimes how to install a CMS
<ali1234> but not how to update it
<ali1234> and then they wonder why they get owned 6 months later
<zleap> lol
<zleap> does anyone know if a game called vultures is in 10.10 or 11.04 it a grapjical front end to nethack,  it looks like a contiuation of nethack-falcons eye which was in 9.04 i think and perhaps 9.10
<MartijnVdS> zleap: nothing matching "vulture" in natty
<MartijnVdS> zleap: but you should play "normal" nethack, it's better :P
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i tried it,  need to learn all the controls etc
<MartijnVdS> hjkl, same as vi(m)
<zleap> ah
<zleap> and ctrl=2 to turn on auto pickups iirc
<MartijnVdS> I can do it blind.. I've played it for ages :)
<MartijnVdS> I don't use autopickup, except in special situations
<zleap> the controls are the same for nethack anyway only you can use a mouse and you get a nice graphcial game
<zleap> hmm, is there any advantage to picking up bones, dead bodies etc
<MartijnVdS> no, dead bodies an be cursed
<matti> ;]
<MartijnVdS> stuff on them*
<MartijnVdS> I only turn on autopickup if stuff is on a trap door.. :)
<MartijnVdS> (or teleport trap, etc.)
<popey> bah, i hate nvidia
<popey> trying to get nvidia settings to let me set the second screen to be anything above 640x480 is futile
<MartijnVdS> popey: is the second screen "bad" (I2C/DDC-wise)?
<MartijnVdS> popey: or does it work on its own?
<zleap> ab
<zleap> ah
<popey> its not technically a display
<popey> its a framegrabber
<popey> which pretends to be a display
<MartijnVdS> zleap: really, I played it for too long :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: ah.. stuff like that can have bad DDC infoz
<zleap> lol
<zleap> ok still on games
<popey> so do i need to force it via modelines in xorg.conf?
<MartijnVdS> popey: but you used to be able to beat it into submission with some xorg.conf h4x0ring
<MartijnVdS> modelines.. yes!
<MartijnVdS> a lost art :)
<zleap> can glest be played over a network ( I am looking for some cool games to install at local youth project as I am installing a internet cafe)
<popey> bah
<MartijnVdS> This is going to feel very 199
<MartijnVdS> 1999
<MartijnVdS> popey: how is it connected? VGA? HDMI? DVI?
<popey> mbp displayport to vga
<popey> works in osx of course
<MartijnVdS> What happens if you connect it to a "normal" PC (if you have one of those)
<MartijnVdS> and/or a "normal" graphics card ;)
<popey> oh it works connected to the mac via displayport
<popey> it is a working device
<popey> its just that nvidia seems to think 640x480 is the mac
<popey> *max
<popey> gonna haxor the gibson
<MartijnVdS> good luck with the modelines
<popey> bah
<popey> killing x kills nm
<popey> killing ssh
<popey> fool
 * MartijnVdS orders some emergency tea and cheese for popey towers!
<zleap> ohh cheese = good
<Keniicchii> any of you good with computers
<MartijnVdS> Keniicchii: I've done some things with them
<zleap> me too
<willy1977> is it plugged in?
<MartijnVdS> have you tried turning it off and back on again?
<willy1977> Click Start/Run then type in CMD... oh no wait... :p
<Keniicchii> ahaa :L well the screen resolution on my computer is too small, its only 800x600 and i was wondering how to make it bigger
<willy1977> I know nothing and that's easily proven
<MartijnVdS> Keniicchii: you're having the same problem as popey :)
<MartijnVdS> !private | Keniicchii
<lubotu3> Keniicchii: Please ask your questions in the channel so that other people can help you, benefit from your questions and answers, and ensure that you're not getting bad advice. Please note that some people find it rude to be sent a PM without being asked for permission to do so first.
<Keniicchii> lubotu3: how do i do that.. sorry im like reli new at this
<lubotu3> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<Arash_> Any lady wanna chat, I am 34 years and a male.
<Seeker`> Arash_: not that sort of chatroom
<willy1977> what you want Arash_ baby?
<zleap> Arash_, this is not a dating forum
<willy1977> :p
<Arash_> Sorry
<Arash_> But I am not looking for any date
<Seeker`> still not that sort of chatroom
<willy1977> was going to say you'll not find it here ;)
<Arash_> I just want to have chat with my opposite sex?
<Arash_> Okay my mistake then
<willy1977> try /join #bigandbouncy then?
<zleap> lol
<Seeker`> feel free to go out and find a lady to chat to
<Seeker`> we aren't stopping you
<willy1977> or /join #meloveyoulongtime
<Arash_> Willy I was born in 1977 too, which month you born?
<Arash_> Me in December 16
<willy1977> :o
<Seeker`> you were born in the month of december 16?
<Seeker`> just how many decembers were there in 1977?
<Arash_> Why ?
<Arash_> Yes
<willy1977> or you could try /join #thejokehasbackfiredonwilly1977andhereallyneedstonottakethepissanymore
<popey> MartijnVdS: my natty with nvidia driver seems to ignore my modelines :(
 * popey boots lucid
<popey> er, maverick
<Daviey> popey, on your mbp?
<popey> yes
<Daviey> popey, how come you need custom modelines?
<HazRPG> \o/
<popey> external vga device
<HazRPG> howdy all
<Daviey> popey, ah!
<popey> http://www.epiphan.com/products/frame-grabbers/vga2usb-lr/
<popey> that
<Daviey> popey, you pre-empted me asking :)
<popey> which is supposed to say "hey, I'm a 1280x800 device"
<popey> and it does in osx
<popey> but the linux nvidia driver seems to need more of a shove
<Daviey> popey, is it the doggies danglies?
<popey> not yet
<Daviey> i want /something/ for external, just undecided waht
<popey> it will only do 640x480
<Daviey> pah, 1988 style.
<popey> might have to nag their support people
 * popey tries their live support thing
<Seeker`> Daviey o/
<HazRPG> epic clipboard! (even has videos!) http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/supplies/e769/?cpg=157H&head
<Daviey> Seeker`, o/
<Daviey> popey, I've been considering dualhead2go, which presents itself as a single screen HUGE X by Y, but splits out into two VGA's
<zleap> hi Daviey
<Daviey> hey zleap
<zleap> we finally got the lighthouse running a ubuntu internet cafe :D
<zleap> we have windows too, but only so we don't have big holes in the walls, lol
<issyl0> zleap: o/
<matti> issyl0: License is not that much ;]
<issyl0> matti: For what?
<zleap> actually they are gettting some macs,  but we are a music venue,  so they need them for a mash up project or something so it will be a mix of linux and macs
<zleap> issyl0, hows you
<issyl0> zleap: I'm fine - you?
<zleap> i am good
<zleap> just downloading parted magic to add to my utility collection
<matti> issyl0: TextMate
<matti> ;]
<issyl0> matti: Ah.  It's 40 quid!
<matti> issyl0: Unless you are a hard-core VIM nerd already ;p
<issyl0> matti: I'm not already, but then how will I learn?  But TextMate is sooo nice.  :P
<issyl0> (Why are we discussing Mac OS in here?  :P)
<matti> issyl0: I know, I use it at work ;]
<matti> issyl0: We are not, I am just talking to you ;p
<issyl0> matti: OK, OK.
<issyl0> matti: Oooh, TextMate at work, you lucky thing.
<matti> issyl0: :)
<matti> issyl0: I have Ruby Mine too, but I prefer TextMate.
<matti> issyl0: Can you get academic license?
<issyl0> Ooh.  There's a 15% educational discount apparently, but whether that's for individuals or, say, universities is unclear.
<issyl0> matti: Yeah, you have to be an actual educational institution.
<matti> Damn.
<issyl0> Indeed.  P
<issyl0> :P*
<ging> i'm an educational institution
<matti> issyl0: Give me your mail.
<issyl0> matti: PM?
<issyl0> matti: Mail as in?
<matti> issyl0: Snail Mail died 20 years ago when they invented Internet ;]
<issyl0> matti: Good good.  :-)
<AlanBell> "this week's guest publication" correct apostrophe?
 * popey wonders how unity is in nouveau these days
<phonex01> hi popey
<phonex01> good night
<willy1977> AlanBell: I think that's right yes.  You are indication the the publication listed afterwards belongs to this week... by doing it like that.
<willy1977> *indicating
<issyl0> AlanBell: Yes, that's correct.  It's "the week's", so thereby implying "week" singular.  :-)
<issyl0> s/the/this/
<AlanBell> great, two confirmations that I got it right, both of them including an error!
<zleap> nite all
<issyl0> AlanBell: Gah!
<issyl0> AlanBell: Trust me.  :-)
<AlanBell> I do!
<daubers> Evening
 * daubers has just got home :(
<willy1977> daubers not funny at all that!
<issyl0> daubers: From where?
<daubers> issyl0: work
<issyl0> daubers: :-(
<daubers> Silly custom software/hardware builds
<gord> popey, i think it depends on your card, nouveau has... changing.. support for card generations
<AlanBell> !info mumble
<lubotu3> mumble (source: mumble): Low latency VoIP client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.2-4ubuntu0.1 (maverick), package size 2161 kB, installed size 4064 kB
<popey> gord: sadly multi monitor is lacking
<HazRPG> woo mumble \o/
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/13/ive-started-so-ill-finish/ issyl0 how does that look?
<popey> i cant seem to get the nvidia driver to actually do what I want
<popey> which is very frustrating
<AlanBell> popey: how was your live support experience?
<popey> "our device is not at fault"
<popey> "sounds like a bug in the nvidia driver"
<popey> which is ever so slightly less than useful
<issyl0> AlanBell: PM?
<HazRPG> popey: your not alone in thinking the nvidia drivers are poor lol
<Nafallo> popey: check PM
<HazRPG> wait till you have 2 screens to contend with...
<popey> that is exactly the issue I am dealing with
<popey> I have another plan though..
 * popey ferrits about under the desk
<AlanBell> popey: I have a mad plan too
<popey> uhoh
<AlanBell> I have a projector with vga in and vga out
<Seeker`> popey: is that behaving like a small mammal made of iron?.
<AlanBell> do you have one of those?
<popey> i have no projector
<popey> but i have a desktop which has a much better behaved nvidia card than my laptop
<AlanBell> because if you do I think you could plug it all to gether and the computer would see the edid of the projector and not the framegrabber
<popey> ooo
<AlanBell> thus 1024x768 passthrough
<popey> i need 1280x720 :)
<popey> "need"
<AlanBell> even with the projector bulb off
<AlanBell> well it might do that too
<popey> hmmmmm
<popey> this might need testing
<popey> what an utter bag of spanners
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E04  Back in the Village - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/04/13/s04e04-back-in-the-village/
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> the only podcaster in the village
<popey> woooah
<popey> 30 people stopped following me on twitter
<Seeker`> :O
<Seeker`> what did you do popey!
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593766/
<popey> i need therapy!
<Seeker`> zomg
<Seeker`> popey: jimmy carr was following you O.o
<popey> _was_
 * gord wonders what popey said to get unfollowed
 * popey reboots into linux
<AlanBell> is that 30 lost followers over a long period?
<AlanBell> Quiz: 16th April 21:00 <--
<HazRPG> AlanBell: \o/
<HazRPG> add to gcalendar :D
<popey> AlanBell: a few weeks i guess
<AlanBell> well you do have rather a lot of stalkers
<AlanBell> probably people who followed you then realised after a few weeks worth of your tweets "oh, probably not actually Elvis"
<Nafallo> AlanBell: haha
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<directhex> popey, 30 spam accounts deleted, you mean?
<AlanBell> like fabsh
<AlanBell> although actually fabsh stopped following everyone on twitter
<gordonjcp> I stopped following fabsh when he wouldn't shut up about football
<popey> he quit twitter
<popey> completely
<popey> very quickly after he and I had a heated discussion about twitter vs identica ;)
<AlanBell> the world would be a better place if everyone used identi.ca
<AlanBell> but they don't
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I would use it if my jabber account *just* worked with identi.ca like they said it would :/
<Seeker`> Jabber \o/
<HazRPG> I planning on federating my own domain to have an XMPP server on it at some point so I won't need to have a jabber account after that :P
<Nafallo> HazRPG: ehrm. why do you want a jabber server if you're not gonna put a jabber account for yourself on it? that doesn't make sense to me...
<AlanBell> only 45 oggcamp tickets left
<HazRPG> Nafallo: oh, I mean I can scrap the jabber account I have, and just use my own XMPP server instead
<HazRPG> so that people can add me via me@domain.com instead of me@jabber.org
<popey> hmm, spotted an interesting natty bug
<popey> open nautilus, switch to list view
<popey> make the window a bit narrow so you get a horizontal scroll bar
<popey> (which is the new orange one)
<popey> put mouse over orange bar and scroll wheel
<popey> it lets you scroll past where it should
<Azelphur> Anyone here somewhat handy with drupal? I have a nasty case of the missing menus :(
<popey> bug 760307
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 760307 in unity (Ubuntu) "Artifacts left behind when horizontal scrolling" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/760307
<HazRPG> omg! http://adamatomic.com/canabalt/mega/
<HazRPG> too addictive! WHY!?
<HazRPG> actually take the "mega/" off if you want the normal sized version, just realised that the HD one might be too big for some screens
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Ive started so Ill finish - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/04/13/ive-started-so-ill-finish/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ive-started-so-ill-finish
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-14
<HazRPG> anyone getting updates for KDE stuff when they're not running KDE on their desktop?
<HazRPG> ubuntu 10.10
<daubers> Morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<diplo> morning all
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> I just had my first github patch merged into the tweepy trunk
<TheOpenSourcerer> wtf is tweepy?
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning vtw
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/vtw/btw
<AlanBell> a python twitter API
<AlanBell> I got cross with gwibber and the twitter web client so decided to take a more direct approach to tweeting
<TheOpenSourcerer> gwibber is pretty bad... It's a hog and seems to lock up frequently.
<AlanBell> loving DoctorMo's cartoon http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Groklaw-PJ-Tribute-204801749
<TheOpenSourcerer> hotot isn't bad
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<AlanBell> Velma was always my favourite
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was just reading about The Ceylon Project: http://blog.talawah.net/2011/04/gavin-king-unviels-red-hats-top-secret.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I had a quick peek and vmwares new Open Source could thingy
<AlanBell> s/and/at/ s/could/cloud/ ?
 * AlanBell passes TheOpenSourcerer another espresso
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes and gets some new fingers
<TheOpenSourcerer> ... less fat ones.
<AlanBell> looking at Ceylon I don't think it is very java++
<AlanBell> it is like one person customising java to the way they want it personally
<AlanBell> and it isn't as nice and cuddly as python
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://netpoetic.com/2011/04/unicode/
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<iulian> Morning.
<dwatkins> moin moin
<diplo> Anyone know of a way of listing users in a svn repo ?
<diplo> svn-manager-users seems to show create / delete etc but not list
<JamesTait> Tea and chocolate Hobnobs. What better way to bid you good morning?
<BigRedS> JamesTait: Well, you could give me the tea and biscuits? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, think I need some moar caffeine (and probly a rich tea or two - that's all we have in the tin).
<popey> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi popey et al
<oimon> regarding mobile phones - should i avoid a reseller that does a cashback as part of the deal?
<bigcalm> JamesTait: a sausage and egg bap would help me start my day. Brown sauce thanks
<popey> depends if you're gonna claim it or not
<popey> oooo
<popey> i had a choccy croissant
<popey> and coffee
<popey> and coffee
<popey> :)
<JamesTait> BigRedS: I just shared them with you, what more do you want? :-P
<oimon> my friend did one with cashback and the seller convenient "went bust" and he didn't get the cash
<JamesTait> bigcalm: I'll arrange that for you. I'll also go the extra mile and eat it for you, just to save you the effort.
<bigcalm> \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting comparison between EC2 and Rackspace cloud services: http://gasoftwareblog.com/home/2011/3/31/amazon-ec2-vs-rackspace-are-all-cloud-hosting-services-the-s.html
<BigRedS> oimon: I've known a few people do those with some success. No number porting, though. And it it really is the cheapest possible setup. Support etc. is terrible
<BigRedS> s/is/was/
<oimon> BigRedS: this one is with phones4u
<oimon> well, some other website they own , with better deals on :S
<oimon> "a trading division of phones4u"
<BigRedS> yeah, these were that sort of a thing. Just a child company spawned to do exactly that sort of thing. Still, if no-frills is fine and you're organised enough to send the right forms at the right time, it's all good
<BigRedS> the lack of number porting would irritate the crap out of me, though
<BigRedS> and I'm not organised....
<BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: that reads a bit like a Rackspace ad. Though I'm well aware that that might just be Rackspace just being way better than Amazon.
<oimon> the number porting can be done by the network provider
<BigRedS> oimon: ah yeah, as long as they say they'll do it you're fine
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was interested in that Rackspace will probably be running OpenStack (or something very close).
<BigRedS> I'd hope so! It'd be a bit of a coup for $otherCloudPlatform if they're not :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
 * dwatkins curses Samba's picky timekeeping and corrects the server clock
 * popey wonders if there's a new nvidia binary driver in the works
<popey> the one in ubuntu is beta isnt it?
<popey> !info nvidia-current natty
<lubotu3> nvidia-current (source: nvidia-graphics-drivers): NVIDIA binary Xorg driver, kernel module and VDPAU library. In component restricted, is optional. Version 270.30-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 27797 kB, installed size 81384 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 lpia)
<popey> hmm, natty has 270.26 beta, current stable is 260.1944
 * popey wonders if 260.1944 is packaged somewhere
<Daviey> popey, shhh... don't tell everyone.
<Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer, Rackspace expected to be using Openstack in production this quarter...
<Daviey> Rackspace UK on the other hand, always seem to be a little out of touch with reality... so perhaps by 2030 for them. :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol - thanks Daviey
<popey> i want to try the non-beta driver. see if it's better
<popey> but I dont want to install it from their site
<popey> guess I need to ppa it
<Daviey> popey, maverick has 260.19.06-0ubuntu1, so you could use that.... but don't expect X to work.
<popey> oh of course
<popey> damnit
<popey> how well does unity run on intel?
<Daviey> pass
<popey> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
<Daviey> intel is too much like free for my taste.
<popey> specifically one of them
<popey> heh
<popey> well, nvidia is causing me monster headaches right now
<popey> it seems incapable of reading EDID data correctly
<JGJones> I'll check my other laptop - it's a Sony Vaio SZ71E - so comes with dual graphics (nvidia and intel) - but Unity runs well on both
<Daviey> popey, i'd chat it over with Bryce.
<popey> he's probably very busy
<popey> i dont like bugging him
<popey> might try passing the nvidia driver a custom edid file
<Daviey> popey, 'meh'... i would be suprised if he minded.
<gord> 945's *should* work with unity fine, but i haven't booted up my 945 in a long time, the power adapter died - which i took as a strong hint that i should buy a new toy instead
<oimon> arggh i'm close close to switching to chrome ..stupid laggy firefox (
<oimon> )
<brobostigon> sudo apt-get install chromium-browser
<oimon> chrome=chromium
<oimon> there's something really ugly about the chromium UI though
<brobostigon> chromium is fully OSS, chrome has some closed google stuff.
<brobostigon> thry are both basiclly the same gui.
<oimon> any way to get a menu bar on it ?
<brobostigon> ithas a button next to the url bar to bring up the system menu's.
<oimon> maybe i'm an old man, but i like menu bars :(
<oimon> i have pixels going spare :)
<brobostigon> oimon: maybe there is a plugin then.
<davmor2> morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<davmor2> czajkowski: ow's the back today?
<popey> brobostigon: i thought chrome and chromium were built the same, just with google branding in chrome
<brobostigon> popey: i understand it also has some google usage tracking and bug tracking, and also chrome has a partly closed pdf reader inside it aswell.
<davmor2> popey: no chromium is the open source version of chrome which will mean it's either behind or ahead depending on who contributes :D
 * gord facepalms
<gord> why is there a "popup delay" in the alt-tab switcher plugin
<gord> its set to 0.2 seconds, thats why there is lag =\
<bigcalm> Incase you hit alt+tab by mistake?
<gord> if you hit alt+tab by mistake your still gonna switch windows
<bigcalm> Odd to have a delay then
<brobostigon> and howon earth would you hit it by mistake?
<oimon> oh dear, i just hit apps menu and expected to type ccsm...unity is getting to me!
 * oimon gnome do's it instead
<bigcalm> Can you set passwords on tarballs and how secure are they?
<oimon> gord, it's still sluggish though, don't you feel?
<gord> oimon, nope
<gord> turn off mipmapping, that'll slow you down
<gord> bigcalm, i doubt it, just encode the tarball with gpg
<oimon> no the initial popup but traversing the open windows
<bigcalm> Grumble
<gord> oimon, you use firefox right? turn off acceleration in firefox, firefox does insane things that make opengl slow when you have it open - took me a while to find that. turn it off and your entire system is way snappier
<oimon> gord, ah
<oimon> in about:config?
<bigcalm> This is for a client, I fear I might have to use a password protected zip file instead
<gord> yup
<gord> bigcalm, password protected zip files arent' very secure
<bigcalm> gord: nope. Maybe I'll ask the client if they have somewhere for me to send the file rather than putting it on HTTP
<gord> bigcalm, you can't email?
<bigcalm> 19mb tarbar?
<bigcalm> gord: rather not
<bigcalm> It's for a site migration. Lot of sensitive data in it
<davmor2> oimon: CCSM pulls up the config manager in dash and in apps lens
<oimon> davmor2: i'm on lucid right now...just sayin' that the unity behaviour seems to be growing on me
<davmor2> oimon: Oh yes it does very much so I'm hating this box right now it's on maverick I much prefer doing stuff on natty now it's just easier
<oimon> ..so long as you know the app name. i always find that as a very rare user of an apple mac, it's quite hard to find what apps are installed on the machine
<davmor2> oimon: that's where the app creators keywords come in, Ziestgiest searches on the name, description and keywords which is why CCSM works
<brobostigon> zeitgeist*
<JGJones> Hmm...a 7" android tablet for 90 quid?
<gord> actually app searches aren't done with Zeitgeist
<JGJones> http://www.kogan.co.uk/shop/7-inch-tablet-pc-android/ - I wonder how bad that touchscreen is...
<gord> unity-applications-place indexes your desktop files as best it can
<gord> JGJones, it'll be bad
<gord> really bad
<JGJones> gord, yeah, however I wonder if with the webcam it can function as a "telephone" for me in house
<oimon> better than a joggler though?
<oimon> looks better than my eee pc
<ali1234> if the specifications are true its quite a bit better than the usual cheap tablets
<popey> wonder how long that battery lasts
<popey> 3600mAh
<MartijnVdS> ~2 minutes
<oimon> i wonder if we'll have the same windows tax problems trying to buy tablets when MS produce win8 for ARM
<ali1234> probably about 8 hours
<bigcalm> If you use the same gmail account on more than one android device, do you get your apps for each device or only the one you originally bought it on?
<gord> how are microsoft handling the arm transition anyway? i mean, all the applications use x86
<ali1234> gord: they will just make sure that windows 8 only supports .net
<oimon> for 3rd party devs or themselves? they demonstrated "ie10"  on win8/ARM the other day
<gord> i'm sure they can port their own apps, thats obvious
 * bigcalm ponders blowing 90 quid for a giggle
<oimon> bigcalm: i would if i was a single man
<oimon> it actually looks OK on paper
<bigcalm> +7 quid p&p
<oimon> imagine how many cheap tablets there will be when windows comes along too
<ali1234> almost none
<ali1234> because the cost of windows will double the price
 * bigcalm tickles popey
<gord> cheep tablets might kill the market - apple will come out with their next hairbrained device and claim tablets useless by then though
<oimon> so long as android etc are around then hopefully MS won't get the strnagehold on the OEms and the compulsory win tax
<popey> bigcalm: did you see my reply from vm yesterday?
<bigcalm> No?
<dogmatic69> oimon: it will be a long time before there is any thing as slick as iPad and at a reasonable price
<popey> phone 150, pay one off fee of 30 quid
<popey> job done
<oimon> dogmatic69: long time? maybe 1 year
<bigcalm> So it is available to those on mates rates
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> Hazar
<popey> monthy fee is same
<bigcalm> So, are you going to? :)
<popey> maybe
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Thanks for checking for me
<dogmatic69> oimon: in one year iPad 3 is out
<popey> np
<gord> i wonder if apple are losing money on ipads, i mean the competition seems to be selling for a lot more
<AlanBell> they might be, they will get the money back through the appstore
<davmor2> gord: where is that alt-tab setting
<dogmatic69> gord: they sold 7mil in the last month (iirc) and get some serious bulk discounts i should think
<ali1234> i doubt they are losing money.... the margin might be 0 though
<gord> davmor2, in the plugin settings?
<oimon> maybe the profits are to be made in the apple tax on the app store
<ali1234> point of selling ipad with 0 margin would be to get apple users used to the idea of buying from the app store for more powerful software, not just 1 time joke apps
<gord> well losing money on ipads might be a valid business plan for apple, making money on app sales could be far more lucrative and getting the hardware in peoples hands makes sense
<gord> video game console manufacturers have been doing that for year
<gord> years*
<dogmatic69> ali1234: yes, apple is the 2nd biggest company in the world because they operate on a 0% margin
<ali1234> it isn't viable for them to make back the loss in their appstore
<ali1234> not yet anyway
<davmor2> gord: that is faster :)
<ali1234> because people aren't yet OK with the idea of buying something like photoshop for Â£300 from the appstore
<oimon> i've never bought an android app in 12 months...but am considering swiftkey after swype has taken a massive downturn in usability
<gord> you just live off free applications? bleeeeh at that
<popey> i have lost count of the number of iphone/ipad apps I've bought
<popey> on android I bought exactly one app
<ali1234> there is absolutely nothing of interest to me in any appstore i have ever looked in
<theduffknight> pft
<ali1234> i would certainly never pay money for software
<theduffknight> just steal?
<oimon> the best apps are google ones anyway
<gord> i'v lost count of the number of android apps i've bought
<AlanBell> I bought no apps on Android
<oimon> wow
<dogmatic69> ive not bought a app on android either
<theduffknight> what do you use it for then?
<dogmatic69> had it since 1.5
<AlanBell> I don't know of any apps that I would want that are not free
<brobostigon> i bought one, 8pen, and it was kinda a good decision,but also not.
<oimon> AlanBell: me too
<AlanBell> google maps is free, midpSSH is free
<brobostigon> connectbot is free and OSS.
<gord> most apps are like $0.99 - i find it hard not to buy them
<AlanBell> email and browser are free, can't think of anything else I would want
<brobostigon> k9-mail, :)
<theduffknight> app on iphone/ipad are worth paying for
<AlanBell> what do they do?
<AlanBell> I would be tempted by garageband if I had an iPad
<BigRedS> In general, the model is that apps on i* are pay-for and on android are ad-supported
 * popey looks at all his paid apps
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: i got an iPad and the quality of apps is *much* better
<bigcalm> Would people PLEASE stop dangling geeky treats infront of his nose
<BigRedS> you're very much expected to make *good* apps for iphone, but cool ones for android
<BigRedS> of course, you do get both, but android seems a lot more experimental
<dogmatic69> cool ones that crash?
<MartijnVdS> I rarely buy apps on android
<MartijnVdS> most apps look ugly
<ali1234> where are these cool experimental apps? all i see is shovelware
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah, nice ideas, if only they actually worked :)
<BigRedS> I don't think I've any app on android that actually does what I want, they all sort-of do
<AlanBell> I had a bit of a play with the android SDK and made a hello world app, but I couldn't think of anything I really wanted to write
<gord> android apps don't crash for me
<BigRedS> I use four calendaring apps...
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: agreed, cool for 2 min. after a few crashes... meh
<MartijnVdS> I just use the built-in calender
<gord> i prolly buy a new live wallpaper every week
<MartijnVdS> but I use google apps for everything anyway
 * brobostigon has had no real crashes to speak on, other than with basic apps he has made.
<dogmatic69> like i got a weather widget for android the other day. in 2 hours it got me band from 3G on O2
<bigcalm> popey: I guess I'll be able to test my work in a tablet kind of way now
<popey> most of my paid apps are games
<AlanBell> I don't want games, or the kids will nick my phone
<gord> mobile phone games are baaad :(
<brobostigon> my favorite is still k9, :)
<popey> i thought we were talking tablets ?
<popey> :)
<theduffknight> get them an ipod touch
<dogmatic69> gord: not on iPhone :D
<popey> Sam loves a few games on ipad, cut the rope especially, and some motor-x one where he can knock the guy off his bike
<AlanBell> they have a DS and a Wii and a playstation and a computer running Ubuntu
<gord> dogmatic69, yeah, they are
<gord> mobile phone games are basically, what you would call in any other game, an annoying minigame
<theduffknight> dont tell them about the games on your phone then :)
<popey> haha
<oimon> MartijnVdS: jorte is a great calendar app on android
<oimon> free too
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I don't care, I use the built-in one and it's fine :)
<MartijnVdS> built-in apps > most of the stuff on market
<oimon> jorte is my favourite app actually
<MartijnVdS> well the mobile banking app I have is useful
<oimon> anyone use prey?
<theduffknight> no? what is it?
<oimon> it's a app that helps you if your phone is stolen/lost etc
<theduffknight> ok
<oimon> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.prey
<dogmatic69> where is my ipad :)
<theduffknight> okk
<dogmatic69> http://preyproject.com/
<theduffknight> yeah like find my iphone
<theduffknight> ?
<oimon> prey works on linux too i think
<oimon> popey: when's tomboy 1.6.x package coming :P
<popey> thanks for the reminder
<popey> i use prey on all my devices
<bigcalm> popey: called 150. Tried to upgrade and they said I'd lose all of my existing discounts
<bigcalm> Sod that
<gord> kinda sucks that you have to register
<gord> you should just be able to install after you lost the device
<oimon> i wonder how many people keep the default GO PREY switchon txt
<gord> i just looked up the bank holidays for this year- they are awesome - two four day weekends in a row
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> it's the take-two-days-holiday-get-11-days-off thing
<seeker> gord: You only just noticed?!
<BigRedS> er, three days holiday I think
<seeker> Three days
<BigRedS> yeah, makes sense :) tue, wed, thu
<seeker> Tues-thurs inclusive
<gord> i'm away with work on one of the weekends though, so i'll have to push that to another day
<bigcalm> This is where working in a 2 man company falls down. Can't take those 3 days off because other bloke already is
<oimon> the problem with prey, is that most laptops will be reinstalled rather than cracking my password
<oimon> so unless i set no login password, i won't get much info
<oimon> ugh banshee 2.0 suffering terrible lag on my pc
<popey> 12:08:57 < gord> kinda sucks that you have to register
<popey> you dont
<popey> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9456798.stm
<popey> ooer
<oimon> can't use what word?
<oimon> looked like the guy was gonna cry
<AlanBell> "security" I think
<brobostigon> ouch,
<oimon> wasn't exactly getting grilled, i think they were just natural questions to ask
<revo_> hello, i am confused, i have wireless and ethernet i would like to use both, but neither are listed in the interfaces file
<revo_> i used the networkmanager applet 0.8 to set the ip of the eth0 but it just wont take
<popey> revo_: neither will be listed in interfaces
<popey> if they were listed there, then NM would ignore them
<revo_> oh
<revo_> found it
<revo_> dodgy ethernet cable, now filed under B for bin
<revo_> thanks for your time popey
<popey> np
<popey> :)
<revo_> ><
<revo_> byeseez
<MartijnVdS> http://twitter.com/#!/feral_pigeon
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any mod_proxy dudes 'in da 'ouse'?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: !ask :)
<popey> boyyyyyy
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wazzup with this then? Can't get webdav proxying to 8070: http://paste.ubuntu.com/593976/
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: trailing slash?
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it might add a trailing slash too many because your ProxyPass ends with one
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, dav is the devil
<TheOpenSourcerer> *Everything* on Google has a trailing slash
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: We found it to be a problem here -- we'd get double slashes
<TheOpenSourcerer> libertusvm2.lan:443 81.XX.XX.1 - - [14/Apr/2011:13:00:17 +0100] "OPTIONS /webdav/libertus_03/calendars/users/alan.lord/c/Meetings HTTP/1.1" 200 18653 "-" "gvfs/1.6.4"
<TheOpenSourcerer> From the apache log. Looks like it's right to me.
<MartijnVdS> It's a HTTP/200 as well
<MartijnVdS> so you got an OK answer..
<MartijnVdS> What's the problem then?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It doesn't work :-)
<MartijnVdS> Do you get a message?
<MartijnVdS> anything?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lighting doesn't do/show anything. Trying to connect to the webdav share with the "Connect to server... " thingy on Ubuntu just timesout after about 3 or 4 mins.
<AlanBell> use a browser
<TheOpenSourcerer> nada
<MartijnVdS> browser doesn't work either?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Loads of errors...
<MartijnVdS> which errors?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/593981/
<MartijnVdS> looks like your server is sending errors :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes. Thanks.
<MartijnVdS> It's complaining that "GET /web" isn't an integer.. which is quite correct :)
<MartijnVdS> I'd check openerp source for solutions here
<TheOpenSourcerer> But it works without a proxy.
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<AlanBell> funky stuff there, chopping it up into 8 character chuncks
<MartijnVdS> hmmmmmmm
<MartijnVdS> I'm out of ideas, sorry
<MartijnVdS> other than "read the docs again"
<TheOpenSourcerer> I wonder if it is to do with "chunks" AlanBell? http://www.atnan.com/2008/8/8/transfer-encoding-chunked-chunky-http
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that might be the issue.. but Python's built-in http server supports chunked encoding doesn't it?
<MartijnVdS> you can disable chunked encoding in the proxy settings
<AlanBell> what makes you think it is working on port 8070?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It did before.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It won't now as it only listens to 127.0.0.1
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am trying to stick everything over ssl
<AlanBell> yeah, I did wget http://localhost:8070/webdav
<AlanBell> got loads of the same kind of error
<directhex> wget isn't too useful for dav
<directhex> since you encode your requests in the http request
<directhex> e.g. not just GET or POST, but GETOPTIONS and stuff like that
<directhex> with auth payloads built in
<directhex> it's a mess :/
<AlanBell> true, but it should give something more sensible than a python error
<AlanBell> webdav should be browseable with a browser I think
<scoundrel50a> hi, can somebody help with my wireless, its stopped working, I can connect via ethernet, but the wireless just doesnt work.
<boffu> how to recover a file from the /tmp folder once i have switched off computer?
<directhex> boffu, oh, that's an interesting question... boot from a livecd i guess. /tmp is cleared on boot iirc
<directhex> or take out the disk, put in another pc, and mount the partition
<boffu> thanks directhex
<boffu> if that's the only way, i'm afraid re-creating the file is simpler ...
<scoundrel50a> anybody know how to get the wireless back up and running?
<directhex> boffu, /tmp really is very very temporary
<scoundrel50a> I dont have a button, so its automatic, somehow, the wireless has stopped working, it works in windows, but not ubuntu
<boffu> scoundrel50a, you'd need to give details about what operating system version you're using, and what changes occurred before it stopped working
<boffu> directhex, thanks ...
<scoundrel50a> I installed Ubuntu 10.10 on an Aspire computer, and just booten up, and the wireless wont work
<directhex> boffu, some distros don't clear /tmp - e.g. re hats
<directhex> scoundrel50a, can you plug it in temporarily?
<directhex> scoundrel50a, if you can get it online via a cable, look in system/administration/additional drivers
<scoundrel50a> I am using the ethernet cable now,
<virusuy> moring all, greetings form Uruguay !
<scoundrel50a> directhex: nothing in there
<virusuy> s/moring/morning/
<scoundrel50a> is there anyway via the terminal it can be checked?
<oimon> i have just discovered that alt-tab switcher allows choosing the window with the mouse from the alt-tab list. useful if you have > 50 windows open
<ging> doesnt for me, is this on the new unity thing?
<oimon> Ging, no, it's a (default) option in ccsm
<oimon> static application siwtcher -> behaviour -> allow mouse selection
<ging> i dont think i have compiz
<scoundrel50a> directhex: opened that, and it said no proprietary drivers are in use on this system
<ging> things like that confuse my tiny mind
<oimon> my computer doesn't feel right unless i have wobbly windows
<ging> windows should never wobble, it's just not right
<oimon> scoundrel50a: which version of ubuntu is it?
<oimon> 10.10 i just noticed...
<oimon> do you know which wireless card it is?
<oimon> running lspci in a terminal should give you a clue
<scoundrel50a> 10.10
<scoundrel50a> oimon, I will post to pastebin what it says, one sec
<oimon> additionally, the exact laptop model would help too, since there are howto's for many acer aspire machines
<scoundrel50a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593994/ and its an Aspire 5736Z
<scoundrel50a> oimon: would there be a way via the terminal to work out what is wrong?
<gord> nooo, engineer guy was doing something in the phone cable cabinet down the street on my way back from lunch, now my internet speeds are 50kb slower :(
<scoundrel50a> is there nobody here that can help?
<oimon> scoundrel50a: try..
<oimon> sudo apt-get install lshw; sudo lshw -C network
<oimon> this is a useful page for checking wifi: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessTroubleShootingGuide
<oimon> scoundrel50a: as a stab in the dark you could try installing the package linux-backports-modules-wireless-maverick-generic, since i've read that problems with your wireless device were solved in lucid during that
<scoundrel50a> I tried that, and got this, dont know what it means though, http://paste.ubuntu.com/594002/
<scoundrel50a> oimon, I'll try with the backports see if that does anything
<scoundrel50a> where do I get them from?
<gord> someone should sell little self powered monitors that you can just hook up to a vga port when your server is being stupid and you need to see whats going on
<scoundrel50a> found the backports
<Azelphur> gord you can get usb ones o.O
<Azelphur> although probably not PnP yet
<dwatkins> I'd like a VGA input on a netbook
<dwatkins> there's always serial, of course
<dwatkins> there are VGA to USB adapters, but they're rather expensive, it appears.
<dwatkins> I imagine it's cheaper to buy aserial multiplexer or a vga to ethernet concentrator
<gord> you could prolly just take apart a small old lcd monitor and put it in a new case
<dwatkins> battery-powered 15" monitor onna cart?
<BigRedS> loads of old LCD panels are 12V, so a homebuild should be doable
<dwatkins> Does anyone know what wayjump.com is for? I found a shortened URL that links to "track_index.php" with a reference which I assume means my IP address was logged in someone's account, but just wondering if it's worse than that.
<dwatkins> gord: or composite-in to a cheap portable display
<gord> dwatkins, i wasn't aware you can just plug vga into composite and it just work
<dwatkins> gord: you can't as far as I know, but adapters are cheaper than a VGA to USB adapter appears to be
<dogmatic69> anyone know of some worth while security on *nix courses to attend ?
<oimon> lol, my sister visited her doctor in denmark who didn't know the answer to a question so he tried googling it
<seeker> Well, why wouldn't he
<oimon> seeker: doctor i've stopped taking this drug and i'm getting side effects, what should I do? hang on let me google it, maybe yahoo answers has some anecdotal evidence
<seeker> There are some decent resources on the web
<dogmatic69> lol
<oimon> dogmatic69:  i like SANS but i've never done their courses,  http://www.sans.org/security-training/courses.php
<dogmatic69> ... hmmm, wikipedia says you will be fine
<seeker> The difference between your sister and the doctor googling it is that the doctor can filter out the stuff that hypochondriacs gravitate towards
<oimon> seeker, i would rather he have some trusted online medical journal resource
<Pendulum> I figured out what my largest health problem was about 3.5 years before I got a diagnosis thanks to the internet (but not by googling symptoms, by meeting people who had the condition and thinking 'that sounds like me')
<seeker> oimon: There are resources like http://bnf.org/bnf/bnf/current/
<popey> is she certain he used google?
<oimon> looks like i might be able to access that, with my athens login
<popey> and not a google-powered local intranet search?
<seeker> oimon: You do realise that there are actually professional / reliable resources on the Internet, not just yahoo answers and wikipedia?
<aquarius> Any of you lot in/near Birmingham, btw?
<oimon> seeker - yes although behind a paywall usually
<dogmatic69> oimon: that looks like a once a year conference type thing
<oimon> it's possible that it was a customised google intranet search
<seeker> http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/15074/SPC/
<seeker> oimon: That isn't behind a paywall, and probably contains the information he would have been looking
<seeker> For
<oimon> btw his advice was "i don't know, just take it easy". rather adds weight to the suggestion of an indiscriminate google search, rather than a directed search
<seeker> Not really
<seeker> Just means that the information wasn't "if you get this symptom then panic"
<oimon> can anyone using firefox or chromium see this page ok? http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/search.aspx?terms=
<oimon> my browsers show white boxes for home/about/news etc, unless you hover over
<Azelphur> the main menu links are broken
<Azelphur> in chrome.
<oimon> it makes the site pretty unusable
<Azelphur> indeed
<nucc1> oimon, http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/mzaliorm/ThreadingSearchMozillaFirefox_005.png
<nucc1> FF4
<oimon> nucc1: yep, same ..
<oimon> interested to see if it works on windows ff/chrome
<BigRedS> oimon: works for me in ff3.6
<oimon> windows?
<BigRedS> oh, not on windows, though
<oimon> oh
<BigRedS> oimon: apparently "All OK on Firefox 3.6."
<BigRedS> from a microsoftie
<oimon> thanks :)
<oimon> sent them an email
<oimon> it's hard enough getting a gas man as it is
<BigRedS> anyone know of an snmp-capable coffee machine?
<oimon> BigRedS: i was discussing that the other day
<BigRedS> I just want an easy way to know if there's coffee in the pot. A less manual version of the trojan camera :)
<oimon> you could plug a usb moisture probe into a linksys nslu2
<daubers> BigRedS: http://www.jabberdoc.org/ProgrammingJabber <- Author made a jabber enabled cofffee machine
 * kazade wants a Jabber enabled coffee machine :(
<oimon> hmm http://www.kogan.co.uk/shop/android-wireless-keyboard-and-trackpad/
<BigRedS> oimon: I'm trying to find the 'android' bit of that
<AnonymousGeezer> popey: you should have a transcript for the Chris Gutteridge interview in your inbox, fwiw
<popey> o_O
<BigRedS> ahhh, it's for an tv thingy that runs android
<oimon> BigRedS: i think it is an accesory to their android powered tv box
<oimon> yep
<oimon> i like the trackpad option though
 * popey wonders which inbox AnonymousGeezer :)
<AnonymousGeezer> popey . net account
<daubers> \o/ inbox zero achieved, will it stay that way before I go away for a week is the question
<popey> AnonymousGeezer: i dont have a .net account
<AnonymousGeezer> com, sorry
<popey> AnonymousGeezer: alan at popey.com
<AnonymousGeezer> that's the one :)
<popey> nothing yet...
<dogmatic69> daubers: just remove the port on your firewall ;)
<oimon> my definition of inbox zero is 0 unread mails
<oimon> that might not be the widely accepted interpreation though :P
<oimon> i've just noticed some new scrollbars in natty!
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I have around 100 hosts running sun java6 u20, is there a easy way to upgrade it to u24 ?
<kaushal> pssh ?
<hcfd> kaushal, seems a plausible solution.
<ubuntu_> hi there i have problem about ubuntu startup
<hcfd> ubuntu_: are you using Startup-Manager by any chance?
<ubuntu_> i deleted something (about user input screen) at synaptic
<ubuntu_> now what can i do for work it again
<ubuntu_> i didnt understand hcfd
<hcfd> Boot to runlevel 3 instead
<ubuntu_> how can i do it
<hcfd> Also, you may have deleted Upstart
<hcfd> Try finding and installing that again
<hcfd> Google is your friend
<ubuntu_> if i can join terminal i can do it
<ubuntu_> could you help about that how can i join terminal
<hcfd> ubuntu_, http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-201130.html
<hcfd> My machine boots to console. I edited grub's menu.lst, indirectly, via /etc/grub.d/40_custom
<hcfd> Google is your friend.
<ubuntu_> hcfd thanks for your support im looking if i have any problem i will make you disturb :)
<ubuntu_> hcfd i looked around about runlevel 3. in rc3.d directory nothing about gdm and in boot/grub/menu.lst empty
<ubuntu_> so i didnt do it could you help about that
<bigcalm> AlanBell: bit of cheak your last tweet :P
<bigcalm> cheek
<popey> optimistic
<bigcalm> Sod, I replied to the wrong person
<AlanBell> well only 30 tickets left, wouldn't want him to miss out
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: my tweet to AlanBell was ment for you
<AlanBell> it was a bit random
<bigcalm> I fair at the internets
<bigcalm> I fail
<bigcalm> Damn it
 * bigcalm goes for a cry
<MartijnVdS> We can see that.
<MartijnVdS> :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks bigcalm
<TheOpenSourcerer> Now go and have a lie down
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: seeing that we can?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: We can see that bigcalm fails ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah ha! I knew it!
<bigcalm> No need to rub it in
<TheOpenSourcerer> Funny if not so sad... http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110413/18085213885/new-zealand-politican-tweets-how-shes-violating-copyright-law-night-before-supporting-three-strikes-copyright-law.shtml
<HazRPG> bigcalm: *hugs*
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no problem, we all fail sometimes :)
<bigcalm> :P
<ubuntu_> how can i run my ubuntu in text mode_
<TheOpenSourcerer> ubuntu_: Just install the server
<HazRPG> ubuntu_: remove ubuntu-desktop ?
<ubuntu_> i removed gnome and i cant boot up my pc
<ubuntu_> its always stay at black screen when i select normal ubuntu or rescue mode
<ubuntu_> i thinked i need text mode and install gnome again.. maybe im wrong im newbie
<ubuntu_> i need your experiments about that
<HazRPG> how did you do that?
<ubuntu_> in synaptic manager i deleted gdm (complete remove)
<HazRPG> why?
<ubuntu_> i was upgrade 10.10 to 11.04
<ubuntu_> then it come with unity and i deleted it and tried to install gnome
<ubuntu_> at this point i did something wrong
<HazRPG> hmm, unity is built on gnome dude
<HazRPG> for now at least
<mrmcan> im at learning level
<mrmcan> so i failed. but i must get it work
<HazRPG> are you in a liveCD now?
<mrmcan> yes im in live cd now
<HazRPG> which one?
<mrmcan> ubuntu 10.04
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - Mrs TheOpenSourcerer will be a bit late home and she says I can nip out to the pub for a quick one :-) TTFN
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: laters dude
<mrmcan> HazRPG have you any suggestion
<HazRPG> mrmcan: probably best to boot into a liveCD of 11.04 and see if you can do another upgrade from there... if you can, try and reinstall it without formatting - but I'm not 100% sure of that
<HazRPG> maybe someone else can give you some better advice though
<mrmcan> ehmmm okey thanks for your support. if you know how can i join text mode im listening
<CaMason> hi guys. Trying to compile php 5.2.17 on 11.04b. I'm getting an error saying libjpeg.(a|so) not found. I've installed libjpeg-dev, and the lib exists under /usr/local/x86_64-linux-gnu/   - should there be a symlink in /usr/lib ?
<CaMason> oh libjpeg62-dev is installed instead of libjpeg8-dev
<CaMason> I do have a similar problem with libpng though
<DJones> Evening all
<zleap> HELLO
<zleap> opps srry, had caps on
<CaMason> is there a reason why natty is using '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpng.so' whereas maverick is '/usr/lib/libpng.so' ?
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: no idea
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: but gcc should automatically work?
<CaMason> I'm tripping up with ./configure for php 5.2.17. The configure script will never look in that x86_64-linux-gnu folder
<CaMason> my knowledge of this is limited, so I'm trying to figure whether 11.04 should be adding symlinks to /usr/lib, or whether php needs to update the configure script
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: 11.04 comes with PHP 5.3.5, why would you need 5.2?
<CaMason> custom requirement for maintenance of old product
<MartijnVdS> You could check the source for the package (apt-get source php5)
<MartijnVdS> See how it calls configure (in debian/rules)
<MartijnVdS> Maybe there is/are some some special command line args?
<MartijnVdS> Do you have all build dependencies? (apt-get build-dep php5)
<MartijnVdS> Isn't there an "old php versions" PPA? Maybe you could try that if it exists?
<CaMason> oh yes, there are. But the test for the dir is `test -f $_PHP_PNG_DIR/$PHP_LIBDIR/libpng.so`, so it can never look into the correct folder
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: did you check the source + patches from the Ubuntu repo? :)
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: it might contain useful bits
<CaMason> I must confess that I've never done such a thing
<CaMason> but I doubt natty has any 5.2 sources anyway
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: no, I mean check the 5.3 sources
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: see how the 5.3 package-source calls the configure script
<CaMason> makes sense.
<MartijnVdS> and see if the package patches it beforehand
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: it does lots of --with-png-dir=shared,/usr (etc.
<CaMason> just reading up how to do this
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: apt-get source php5
<CaMason> yup got it
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: cd php5-whatever-version-was-extracted
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: then check debian/rules for the "./configure" line
<CaMason> I see
<MartijnVdS> you might not need all sub-modules
<CaMason> no luck :/
<CaMason> others are just suggesting a symlink
<MartijnVdS> it expects an in-tree copy of libpng, I guess?
<CaMason> it wants $PNG_DIR/$LIB_DIR/libpng.so, where PNG_DIR is --with-png-dir and LIB_DIR is --with-lib-dir
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> at least.. it's smarter than that
<MartijnVdS> that's why the source package does:
<MartijnVdS> --with-png-dir=shared,/usr
<MartijnVdS> the "shared" bit is the magic
<CaMason> what does that do?
<MartijnVdS> it tells it to use the shared-library version instead of the in-tree version
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install libpng-dev first
<MartijnVdS> but then it should work
<CaMason> I did apt-get install libpng12-dev
<CaMason> http://packages.ubuntu.com/da/natty/amd64/libpng12-dev/filelist
<MartijnVdS> yeah I know
<MartijnVdS> and the location is good (will be found by gcc)
<CaMason> so how could this ever work? http://pastebin.com/9rnC8iaM
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: where do you see that?
<CaMason> in php 5.2.17 configure (and I also beleive in 5.3)
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: let me read the source
<MartijnVdS> [brb] :)
<CaMason> thanks for the help
<MartijnVdS> checking for the location of libpng... shared,/usr
<MartijnVdS> that works... configure doesn't fail for me
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: which error do you get?
<CaMason> this is natty and 5.2.17?
 * CaMason configures
<MartijnVdS> natty and 5.3, but I can get 5.2.17
<CaMason> configure: error: libpng.(a|so) not found.
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: have you tried just getting the debs from a previous version of Ubuntu and dpkg -i'ing them?
<MartijnVdS> that way easier than compiling them manually
<CaMason> no. This is maintenance for an old piece of software and we've been instructed to use a very specific set of configure options
<CaMason> I've not had a problem building in the past. Only now I've set a VM up for natty
<MartijnVdS> Why natty, and not an long-term stable release like Lucid (trying to find an easier way out here :))
<CaMason> I get the same png issue with 5.3 source (straight from php.net)
<CaMason> this isn't really an issue I absolutely have to resolve - I'm just setting up instructions for natty for the internal wiki. But it's been bugging me why I can't get it to configure :)
<MartijnVdS> It's because natty seems to be going multiarch (or something) and things are moving around
<MartijnVdS> The developers (#ubuntu-devel?) might know more about this
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Implementation
<MartijnVdS> that might have clues
<CaMason> ahhhhh
<CaMason> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5/+bug/739977
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 739977 in php5 (Ubuntu) "PHP5 FTBFS in Natty" [High,Fix released]
<CaMason> numerous patches including '$DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH' in the test lines in configure
<CaMason> "we can't use --with-libdir yet because that requires all the build-deps to have moved."
<CaMason> so basically, php 5.2.17 wont build properly yet on natty.
<MartijnVdS> CaMason: now you know why it's broken, and you have a path to a fix :)
<CaMason> I will cheat and symlink for now..
<CaMason> but - I now know *why* its failing
<CaMason> Thanks for pointing me in the right direction
<MartijnVdS> np
<CaMason> so that must be why libjpg is OK with one version from apt.. one must be multiarch, the other isn't
<CaMason> and now I see the patch that fixes it: ++      test -f $i/$PHP_LIBDIR/$DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH/libpng.$SHLIB_SUFFIX_NAME && GD_PNG_DIR=$i && break
<DJones> ping YaManicKill
<scoundrel50a> I use a mouse on my laptop, so I didnt notice with the install of 10.10 earlier that my touchpad isnt working, would anybody be able to help get it working?
<scoundrel50a> nobody have any ideas?
<DJones> scoundrel50a: Looks to be a bit quiet at the minute
<scoundrel50a> I just thought I would add what bI had done till now, until somebody might be able to help....
<davmor2> scoundrel50a: try having a look on the forum's or wiki I suggest google for both
<BigRedS> Nobody's said anything for an hour; is dr who on or something?
<DJones> Heh
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: next week :)
 * suprengr says "anything"... just to help BigRedS 
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> I just alt-tabbed and had a screenload of leaves and joins and wondered what I was missing
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: an hour of silence.
<popey> njpatel: a question for you...
<popey> njpatel: most people I know have dual monitors side by side
<popey> what if you have your monitors one above the other?
<popey> you'll have two global menus, one across the middle of the work area
<popey> that sounds less than ideal
<popey> is there any way to set it so you _only_ get a global menu on the 'top' monitors?
<popey> (I suspect not, but asking anyway)
 * AlanBell would be OK with a global menu on both in that setup
<AlanBell> because you would maximise stuff to use all of one monitor (or half)
<BigRedS> Is this unity? 'cause I'm pretty sure I've made Gnome be sensible in that situation
<popey> yes BigRedS
<popey> hence asking njpatel (the guy who does coding on unity)
 * suprengr wonders if alarm clocks for u-uk members are available on NHS
<suprengr>  #ubuntu-uk-meeting is: Next meeting Thursday April 14th at 21:00 BST
<Biglesp> Has the meeting been rescheduled in #ubuntu-uk-meeting?
<suprengr> ;)
<popey> oh blimey
<BigRedS> bah. Everything's unity these days. I should really install it...
<AlanBell> and the point of the duplicated global menu is so you don't have to leave the monitor that the app is on and go miles and miles away
<AlanBell> oops is that the time!
<gord> popey, no you can't do that
<popey> thanks gord
<popey> maybe a wishlist for OO?
 * suprengr hands AlanBell an alarm clock
<AlanBell> thanks suprengr
<AlanBell> well we have a meeting it seems
<gord> popey, can't hurt, once we have more time we can make multi-monitor stuff better
<scoundrel50a> ok, back after trying loads of things in trying to get my touchpad working. Its highly possiblle I have made thigns even worse, I dont know. Based on what I see, I cvouldnmt tell you what is the problem or not, I can tell you, its detected, but that is about it. If I can give some information out on What I have found, can somebody tell me if there is a problem?
 * AlanBell kicks off meeting in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<AlanBell> daubers ^^
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> hi
 * AlanBell hugs czajkowski 
 * czajkowski hugs AlanBell it's been a long day 
<Myrtti> MY BED â¥ â¥ â¥ â¥ â¥ I've missed you so â¥ â¥ â¥ â¥ â¥
 * DJones hasn't seen his bed in 6 days/nights
<Myrtti> I've not seen mine for ... erm.
<Myrtti> 12, and even then I had only one night
<DJones> That doesn't sound good, at least I had an excuse being away on holiday
<dwatkins> Can anyone suggest a place where I can register for a SIP account to try out some software clients?
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 5th May 21:00 BST #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | Quiz: 16th April 21:00 | oggcamp.org \o/
<bigcalm> Hi peeps
 * AlanBell thanks suprengr for the reminder :)
<popey> pip pip
<suprengr> AlanBell: np, pleased to be of service ;D
<suprengr> ...& very well done for excellant recovery
<g5236m> @search ian fleming
<popey> o_O
<popey> !list
<lubotu3> This is not a file sharing channel (or network); be sure to read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type Â« /msg ubottu !bot Â». If you're looking for a channel, see Â« /msg ubottu !alis Â».
<AlanBell> minutes available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting
<AlanBell> g5236m: he died in 1964, don't think you will find him here
<code_astronomer> :D
 * dwatkins logs on to SIP then realises he doesn't have anyone to call :'(
<matti> ;]
<AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/
<ali1234> i put up my teletext code: http://github.com/ali1234/vhs-teletext
<ali1234> you'll need a tv card with bt8x8 or maybe others will work
<ali1234> and some old VHS tapes of course
 * AlanBell tweets http://twitter.com/#!/alanbelltolc/status/58652378697695232
<scoundrel50a> well, after finding loads of things about restarting the wireless, it started working, and I have no idea what started it. Which really, is very frustrating, because one, I would have to go through the whole process again, and hope it works again. 2 if anybody else needs help, I couldnt tell them what fixedmine, which in a sense annoys the hell out of me. A waste really, the same it was a waste with the network, and my Network shares, whic
<scoundrel50a> h I still dont know what fized even though I went through loads of different things one ofter another. So in a sense, the blind being led by the blind, and as foe helping somebody else, I could c9ouls help of tht either.  Complete hit and miss and very frustrating.7
<willy1977> gah... how do I clear my gwibber db again? can't find popey's tweet...
<zleap> there was something about that in the latest podcast
<scoundrel50a> To tired now,,,,,
<willy1977> haven't had time to catch the latest one yet :( blimmin' work eh! but thanks for that it can wait till I get chance to do it.
<bigcalm> Anybody still awake have experience using the <canvas> in HTML5?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-15
<JGJones> Just wondering if by any chance anyone used something like Ribbit (www.ribbit.com) for phones?
<JGJones> I'm particularly interested in the voice message to text feature
<knightwise> morning everyone
<Ansikt>  Having some difficulty getting X to behave.  My backlight does not turn on at boot (I have to close my laptop lid and open it again), and my brightness is "stuck" at 100 percent, despite what the /sys/class/backlight files are telling me.  I'm running a Gateway NV79 laptop with lspci reporting a "00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 12)" as my graphics chipset and module i91
<Ansikt> 5 loaded.  Any suggestions or further tests to preform?  Oh!  And my kernel is 2.6.35-28-generic
<UbuntuN00b> anyovdy help with grub2 netbook remix dual boot
<MooDoo> hello all
<kazade> morning
<MooDoo> morning kazade
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
<TheOpenSourcerer> IT'S FFFRRRIIIDDDAAAYYY
<MooDoo> yay o/
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD2LRROpph0
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 2 Released: Test and Report! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/04/15/ubuntu-11-04-beta-2-released-test-and-report/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks for the appalling tune MartijnVdS ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Did we all see this? http://falkvinge.net/2011/04/14/european-court-of-justice-to-outlaw-internet-filtering-esp-for-copyright-enforcement/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Could be quite important.
<MartijnVdS> Especially when the Dutch government is trying to introduce a mandatory-filtering bill
<MartijnVdS> (of copyrighted stuff)
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<gord> ahoy hoy
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> s-fox: good morning
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo . How are you?
<MooDoo> s-fox: 39 today and at work :( lol
<s-fox> HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!
<s-fox> :)
<MooDoo> thank you  :)
<s-fox> At least it is friday MooDoo
<MooDoo> s-fox: yeah :)   might have a few beers this evening :D
<willy1977> exit
<willy1977> fail
<MooDoo> lol
<s-fox> win
<willy1977> Happy Birthday - just off for a bit :)
<danfish> MooDoo: happy birthday you young whippersnapper...oh, my bad, you're actually older than me :)
<MooDoo> danfish: pah! :p
<MooDoo> :)
<danfish> :D only by 11 months!
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> my wife is 39 today too, she's older than me by 50 mins :D
<s-fox> wow
<s-fox> that is crazy
<MooDoo> s-fox: yup, nice though :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: so you like older women eh? :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yup :D lol
<s-fox> biab
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone!
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Merry Friday to you too!
 * TheOpenSourcerer popey AlanBell (and others) will be here this evening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnham_Beer_Exhibition
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Only alans allowed?
<TheOpenSourcerer> We are Alan
<Daviey> We are Borg
 * Gary nom's on Daviey 
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<Gary> hi daddy!
<Daviey> Gary: o/
<danfish> remember everyone, shout very loudly in the morning cos the alans will have hangovers ;)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> danfish: "morning", that's optimistic
<danfish> heh
<danfish> we can be flexible in our 'morning' definition :)
<Daviey> danfish: nah, i'll turn up and whisper sweet nothings into popey's ears whilst he is in a hangover coma.
 * danfish applies mind bleach
<bigcalm> danfish: one way of waking up in the morning
<danfish> bah, the latest natty updates have broken my neatx install :(
<oimon> danfish: how many users do you use with neatx? i was looking at freenx but the free version supports only 2 logins
<danfish> oimon: are you sure that's not nomachine nx? FreeNX and neatx have unlimited logins IIRC
<danfish> and to answer your original Q - only 1 - me!
 * TheOpenSourcerer wonders where AlanBell is right now.
 * brobostigon points TheOpenSourcerer at google latitude.
<TheOpenSourcerer> brobostigon: Nice idea but AlanBell doesn't have a "proper" phone anymore...
<oimon> danfish: hmm maybe it was nomachine nx i was looking at. would you recommend neatx as stable? i'm looking to provide a remote access solution for a few months for up to 40 users
<brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, i see, ohwell.
<popey> heh, AlanBell is listed on my Latitude under "Stale Location"
<danfish> oimon: no problems with it here in my limited usings (until the recent natty update!)
<oimon> booted up natty on my eee for an update to beta2 and some serious bug reporting, discovered that moving a finger on the trackpad results in X restarting :)
<bigcalm> Your mouse has been moved. Windows must be restarted for the changes to take effect.
<danfish> oimon: that's feature, not a bug ;)
<popey> haha
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: how the back and rash
<oimon> ewww
<davmor2> oimon: you need to follow czajkowski twitter/facebook bad back, rash from the pain killers
<oimon> davmor2: i don't think those kind of updates would fit into my strict twitter lists :)
<oimon> how long would it take for an ubuntu update to get released to fix a rogue security update that causes gnome-panel to crash randomly and evolution to crash consistently? still waiting for redhat after > 10 days https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=693882
<lubotu3> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 693882 in glibc "latest glibc update breaks Evolution on RHEL 5.6" [High,New]
<oimon> i get the feeling a canonical fix would arrive within 1 day..
<popey> heh
<popey> optimistic
<oimon> considering it affects all desktops?
<oimon> i think redhat have given up on the desktop
<oimon> what i get when i click the ubuntu icon on my eee: http://i.imgur.com/3xeXj.png a bit "busy", methinks
<bigcalm> Eww
<oimon> even pressing super-key gives that result too
<oimon> unity2d
<bigcalm> It really does look like it's meant for a touch screen interface
<oimon> which is funny because on my android i can touch things that are 10% of the size
<gord> oimon, make sure to file a bug, looks like an obvious bug
<oimon> gord: which is the bug? launcher+dash appearing?
<oimon> the size problem already exists: bug 749632
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 749632 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dash default shortcuts too big for eeepc701 screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/749632
<oimon> i think it's all the same bug
<PalaPad_> Boo!
<bigcalm> Hiss?
<PalaPad_> I have 7 minutes to kill
<dwatkins> time to start scripting
 * popey pokes AlanBell with http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/ being a "Part" and not a "Party"
 * popey fixes
 * oimon enjoyed listening to ubuntu fortuens yesterday on uupc
<popey> :)
<popey> thanks oimon
<bigcalm> Aye, that was fun
<oimon> i work in east london so it's OK to laugh out loud when walking down the street. it's normal behaviour here
<Laney> weeeeeeeeell helloooooo
<gord> i like to listen to the adam and joe show on planes, but with my eyes closed - it looks like i'm sleeping but then i suddenly start laughing. great fun
<popey> :)
 * popey loves Adam & Joe
<bigcalm> gord: the little girl singing the podcast jingle was so sweet
<bigcalm> Shame she chose Trash instead of Rubbish
<Laney> i couldn't help but laugh out loud in the office at that girl's present demands
<gord> my lifes goal is to one day, yell stephen at those two. i am sure they will love it if i do that
<popey> gord: how is the drop shadow on the top bar implemented?
<gord> popey, its just a png image file of a drop shadow repeated iirc
<popey> oh
<popey> dear
<gord> problem?
<popey> it causes screencasting apps no end of trouble
<gord> ah no, thats nux/compiz insaneness
<popey> if I video the desktop it looks fine, but playback the video and the shadow is on top of the apps
<popey> so there's a shadow along the top line of the firefox window, on top of it
<popey> how to fix pls?
<MartijnVdS> gord: http://www.shrani.si/f/9/OT/4gwtNbnJ/troll-face-problem.jpg ? :)
<gord> basically all screencast stuff of unity looks damn awful, graphical glitches everywhere, really no idea how to fix
<popey> yes, i agree
<Pendulum> amber managed an okay one, but she barely did anything during it
<ali1234> popey: turn off graphics acceleration. oh wait...
<Pendulum> (well, not completely true, but she mostly was showing where to find something)
<popey> found http://www.iloveubuntu.net/easily-disable-unity-panels-drop-shadow-natty-narwhal
<popey> which I may try, but seems odd to replace the shadow png with a transparent png
<popey> would rather just remove it
<popey> (I dont really like any of the drop shadows)
<gord> would be nice to have a ccsm option for transparency of panel shadow
<gord> its too dark for my taste
 * bigcalm feels dirty
<bigcalm> I was listening to the Dubstep tag radio on last.fm. It decided I wanted to hear Britney Spears
<gord> maybe you do
<bigcalm> :S
<Laney> did you let it play to the end?
<bigcalm> Can't say that I did
<MartijnVdS> "Ban" button++
<bigcalm> Indeed
<bigcalm> Would be nice if Spotify offered a tag like radio play list
<bigcalm> The generes they offer in the Radio section is pitterful
<bigcalm> popey: do you use your kindle less since having an ipad?
<popey> yes
<oimon> how can i find a reputable boiler repairman, without a personal recommendation ?
<Daviey> oimon, If they come to your house on horseback, swinging a lasso - be concerned.
<scoundrel50> Hi, how can I delete a partition, I have three at the moment, one is the Netty partition I cant use, the other is Merrkat and the other windows,. How do I get rid of the Natty partition.
<bigcalm> I wonder if I'll use my kindle less once I have the 7" tablet. I doubt it mostly due to the battery life of the Kindle
<oimon> bigcalm: did you buy the kogan one?
<bigcalm> oimon: yes
<bigcalm> :(
<oimon> why :(?
<oimon> looks ok to me
<bigcalm> Hehe, I'm a sucker for geeky stuff
<popey> because deep down, he knows it will suck
<oimon> heheheh
<oimon> i'm sure it will be great for 12 months
<bigcalm> Well, I could have put that 96 quid towards the mortgage fun instead
 * bigcalm tickles popey with a blended ipad
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko
<bigcalm> http://hijinksensue.com/2011/03/11/2-pad-2-furious/
<knightwise> bigcalm:  i have an ipad but still keep my sony prs 505 for the summer : Outdoor reading impossible on the ipad
<scoundrel50> Well, can somebody point me in the right direction, for information I can understand to delete the partition?
<knightwise> Ipad = Cloud formation to facial optics reflection unit
<knightwise> scoundrel50: boot with live cd , start Gparted delete partition ?
<scoundrel50> ok, thanks
<scoundrel50> how do I know which partition it is, is there a number to look out for?
<popey> what are you trying to do?
<popey> and why
<scoundrel50> I installed Natty, backlight wont work, cant get it to work. Installed via Update manager, so had to install Meerkat again, and now have three partitions. As I cannot get Natty to work, need to delete it, but dont know how. knightwise just mentioned a way, but I was asking how do I know what the natty partition is.
<scoundrel50> I dont want to delete the windows partition
<scoundrel50> I have asked on ubuntu+1 quite a few times for help with Natty, nobody seems to be able to help.
<scoundrel50> which is why i want rid now
<willy1977> I'm not sure but: if you're windows partition is mounted in meerkat you could probably run Mount to see what partition number to avoid - anyway you can backup before hand?t
<knightwise> if you boot in meercat you can do a df
<scoundrel50> Windpows was first, then partitined for ubuntu
<scoundrel50> what is a df
<knightwise> df is the disk free command
<scoundrel50> I am using meerkat now
<scoundrel50> still dont know,
<knightwise> so do a df -ah
<knightwise> then check what partitions it says its using
<knightwise> normally the meercat has not mounted the natty partition (i think)
<knightwise> you did a standard isntall right ? you didnt make any special partitions for your home directory ?
<popey> pastebin the output of:-
<popey> sudo fdisk -l
<popey> mount
<popey> lsb_release -a
<popey> ^^ scoundrel50
<scoundrel50> hello? Jus
<scoundrel50> just looking at the termina, here is the pastebin for that other command http://paste.ubuntu.com/594445/
<nucc1> i dist-upgraded to natty last night, and my apps aren't showing up in the unity menu, is there something i need to do?
<gord> nucc1, how do you mean?
<nucc1> i had to run xchat from the terminal
<nucc1> i can't find it in the menu, even by searching.
<scoundrel50> I have to rebioot a sec, be right back.
<Adriannom> hi.  i have ubuntu studio 9.10 and two usb soundcards.  when i plug one in, it appears in pulseaudio.  when i plug the second one in, it does not.  it doesn't matter which order i plug them in.  here's /var/log/messages: http://pastebin.me/052dcc9003cca903c754e4039e098106 - any idea what's happening?
<gord> nucc1, hrm interesting. do you have two icons on the bottom of your launcher, one saying Applications and the other saying Files & Folders?
<nucc1> gord no.
<nucc1> gord yes
<gord> make your mind up ;)
<nucc1> but it shows an empty menu
<gord> what happens when you click one?
<nucc1> hmmm. hard to use the launcher if your primary monitor is on the right hand side.
<gord> it is yeah, but no good solution for that yet
<nucc1> gord searching from there works
 * DJones debates whether to upgrade to natty, I feel I should, but there seems to have been too many horror stories/reports about it
<nucc1> DJones, mine's not been a horror.
<scoundrel50a> popey: what was that command you wanted me to do?
<popey> 12:45:45 < popey> pastebin the output of:-
<popey> 12:45:49 < popey> sudo fdisk -l
<popey> 12:45:50 < popey> mount
<popey> 12:46:00 < popey> lsb_release -a
<nucc1> gord, hitting that menu seems to have fixed the problem.
<scoundrel50a> thank you,
<popey> nucc1: hit the windows button to bring up the launcher
<gord> nucc1, wwwwweird, sounds like something got screwed up on your upgrade =\
<popey> if its hard to hit
<popey> nucc1: sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^
<popey> does that pull in lots of stuff?
<popey> or, rather, does it _want_ to?
<popey> note the ^ is important
<nucc1> popey, ubuntu-desktop is installed
<popey> did you add the ^
<nucc1> popey, no. it looked like a typo :p . it want's to install just 4 new packages.
<nucc1> evolution-exchange firefox-globalmenu libjack-jackd2-0 and tcl
<scoundrel50a> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/594448/
<Adriannom> anyone?
<gord> decided to watch merry christmas mr bean on my lunch break, excellent idea :D
<nucc1> feeling like watching RED.
<popey> scoundrel50a: thats not the three commands I asked for
<popey> scoundrel50a: I asked for "mount" too
<scoundrel50a> popey: sorry, didnt see mount, will do that now
<popey> scoundrel50a: so probably sda7 is your natty install
<popey> at a guess
<willy1977> Adriannom: sorry I can't help directly but have you tried #ubuntustudio ?
<Adriannom> willy1977, thanks, yes :)
<scoundrel50a> popey: here is mount http://paste.ubuntu.com/594449/ sorry about that
<scoundrel50a> popey: does the mount information help any more?
<popey> did you install 10.10 after 11.04?
<scoundrel50a> yes, because I couldntr get 11.04 to work, and didnt know how to do repair 11.04, so I installed 10.10
<popey> ok, so /dev/sda5 is your 11.04, /dev/sda7 is your 10.10
<popey> so boot from a live cd, open gparted, delete /dev/sda5 and /dev/sda6 and then move sda7 down the disk and then resize up the disk
<oimon> scoundrel50a: does this mean your wireless problem is fixed in 10.10 ?
<scoundrel50a> um, ok, I understand the first two instructions, but not the last, can I ask about it when I get to it. I'll start my netbook up and open xchat from there.
<popey> what dont you understand about it?
<popey> you will have removed sda5 and sda6 which will open up a "hole" in your disk space
<popey> move 7 down to the start of that whole
<popey> *hole
<popey> then expand it up to fill the hole
<popey> (you cant expand partitions downwards, but you can move them downwards and expand upwards)
<popey> or just reinstall (it would be faster)
<scoundrel50a> oimon: yes, I managed it somehow, but I hjave no idea how, I went through all the things I found, but it didnt seem to work then I closed everything dowmn, came back to the laptop a couple of hours late, and it worked, but dont know what it was that got it working.
<popey> and reinstall with manual partitioning, deleting sda5, 6, 7, 8
<scoundrel50a> popey: ok, will give it a try
<popey> does all that make sense?
<oimon> scoundrel50a: it was probably a reboot after installing the linux wireless modules pacakge
<scoundrel50a> popey: some of it does, if I get stuck I'll come back.
<scoundrel50a> have to log off thiws machine, but can log back in on my netbook. brb
<oimon> popey: you think 11.06 is enough time to iron out unity bugs? maybe the 11.04 download should have a big notice on  the site. 11.10 is a better estimate for squashing the bugs flagged by beta testers. what about the bugs flagged by release users?
<popey> yeah, i reckon so
<popey> get the design wrikles sorted
<scoundrel50a> just waiting for cd to boot up
<willy1977> "wrinkles" ?
<popey> and the various bugs fixed
<oimon> 11.04 is canonical's KDE4.0, for sure
<popey> no new features, an extended testing period
<nucc1> i have to move my primary monitor to the right.
<nucc1> left, rather.
<nucc1> oimon, the guy that did the compiz version of unity did wonders getting it this far already.
<nucc1> or the guys
<willy1977> aye I get that, and people have worked hard etc. I think it's got potential but it's just slowed me down
<willy1977> so far...
<oimon> nucc1: agree, but doesn't mean it's ready. it feels more like we are getting a buggy release in order for real users to iron out bugs. otherwise unity wouldn't be default in natty
<willy1977> sounds a dangerous approach to things imo
<oimon> willy1977: it hurt KDE badly since many users left and haven't returned
<willy1977> yep, I turned on to linux around that time tried KDE and... well have just made a return :(
<nucc1> well, i figure people who are smarter than I am are thinking hard about it.
<scoundrel50a> ok, get a message when I try to delete /dev.sda5/ saying 'unable to delete /dev/sda5! Please unmont any logical partitions having a number higher than 5' what do I do?
<nucc1> mine is to decide what to use when it is shipped.
<willy1977> nucc1: absolutely - if they feel it is ready and ignore the beta feedback though... again imo that's not smart...
<scoundrel50a> /dev/sda6/ has a key next to it
<willy1977> hence why popey and oimon talking about a extended test period makes sense - my flippant comment is personally I don't think they're just niggles though.  Not slating anyone's work here I think what's been done so far is great and has potential (as I've said) but it does need tidying up...?
<scoundrel50a> sorry to have to askm but fr some reason, I cant delete the partition, would anybody know why?
<nucc1> willy1977, i've only used unity for about 2 hours so far, but it has been stable for me.
<nucc1> and this is beta 2.
<nucc1> if it progresses as far as it has come since beta 1,
<nucc1> it will likely be strong enough for end of april release.
<willy1977> all power to them I really hope it does
<nucc1> personally, i'm about to switch to gnome3 though. i prefer it.
<scoundrel50a> popey:ok, get a message when I try to delete /dev.sda5/ saying 'unable to delete /dev/sda5! Please unmont any logical partitions having a number higher than 5' what do I do?
<scoundrel50a> I just have no idea how to get around that, so I'm stuck now
<willy1977> scoundrel50a: you're definitely running on the LiveCD?
<scoundrel50a> yes
<scoundrel50a> I will take a screen shot to show you what I see
<willy1977> I think the key icon means it's using swap at the moment...
<scoundrel50a> what can I use to show you a picture
<DJones> !imagebin
<lubotu3> Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<scoundrel50a> ok, the image address is http://imagebin.org/148350
<scoundrel50a> So how can I delete the sda5 partition
<willy1977> right mouse click sda6 and swapoff
<willy1977> should get rid of the key and let you remove sda6
<willy1977> or rather then should let you get rid of sda5
<scoundrel50a> oh, that took the key away, but still cant delete, get that error again
<scoundrel50a> what does it mean when it says unmount any logical partitions having a number higher than 5
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: that you need to unmount sda6, sda7, etc.
<MartijnVdS> scoundrel50a: before you can change sda5
<scoundrel50a> um, ok,
<scoundrel50a> ok, done that, now I have unallocated space, how do I give that to sda5?
<willy1977> aren't you trying to keep sda7 ?
<scoundrel50a> just screwed it up ok
<willy1977> :/
<scoundrel50a> ok, how do I ive it to sda5, then I can install over sda5
<willy1977> am I right in thinking gparted will not have commited changes yet?
<popey> if he hasn't hit apply, yes
<scoundrel50a> dont know
<willy1977> so scoundrel50a depends if you've hit apply or not as to whether it is actually screwed up or not
<scoundrel50a> I havent hit apply, just found that button
<scoundrel50a> 2 operations pending it say
<scoundrel50a> undid it
<nucc1> hmmm, is there a weather applet type thingy for unity?
<gord> nucc1, install indicator-weather
<nucc1> excellent!
<willy1977> if you're happy reinstalling I'd be inclined to do the install (think popey mentioned this) and starting afresh with manual partitioning
<willy1977> scoundrel50a: ^^^
<popey> +1
<scoundrel50a> How do I install over both partitions, without installing over windows?
<scoundrel50a> If somebody could talk me through it, I can do that
<popey> run the installer
<popey> when you get to the partitioning stage, choose manual partitioning
<popey> in the partitioner, delete sda5 through 8
<popey> create a new / partition and a swap partition, install into them
<willy1977> you can also look at http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download step 4 - show me how, and in the steps that are then shown look at step 4, there select Specify partitions manually (advanced) then you'll get a gparted screen in which you can make the changes popey was on about.
<scoundrel50a> deleted,how to create new partition, and swap?
<willy1977> so you have a block of unallocated now, you should be able to right mouse click on it and create a new partition
<willy1977> you want to create one which is total free space - 4.5gb type ext4 mounted as /
<willy1977> then the remaining 4.5g you can right mouse click and createa a swap partition - select swap for type.
<scoundrel50a> created new partition, sda5, but when I go to install, it says 'no root file system defined, please correct this from the partioning menu' what does that mean?
<hamitron> you need a partition set as / (root) for everything to work from
<willy1977> when you create the partition you need to set its mountpoint to /
<willy1977> I think you can edit it by right mouse clicking the partition you've created... ?
<scoundrel50a> ok, I have set its mount point to /, but now its talking about not selecting anyt partitions for use as swap space, what is swap space?
<popey> i did say create two partitions
<popey> 13:50:53 < popey> create a new / partition and a swap partition, install into them
<hamitron> isn't there an option to select the "free space" and for the installer to automatically partition that space?
<scoundrel50a> but I did ask what that meant, I didnt understand it
<scoundrel50a> no
<hamitron> !info racing
<lubotu3> Package racing does not exist in maverick
<hamitron> !partitions
<lubotu3> For help with partitioning a new install see: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/switching/installing-partitioning.html - For partitioning programs see !GParted, !QtParted (!Kubuntu 8.10 and lower) or !PartitionManager (!Kubuntu 9.04 and up) - Other partitioning topics include !fstab !home and !swap
<scoundrel50a> ok, reverted back, then uninstalled agfain, leaving a swap spave
<scoundrel50a> then clicked install, and now its working
<scoundrel50a> I hope
<scoundrel50a> that has to be the most confusing and difficult thing I have ever done
<hamitron> it used to be a lot harder :)
<hamitron> I dare say when it was harder, it was made easier by the fact you had to read up on it more though
<scoundrel50a> Its installing....
<oimon> :D
<hamitron> :D
<oimon> swap space can also be used as a file rather than a partition, with no performance hit AFAIK
<scoundrel50a> bet the wifi and touchpad wont work again, you watch
<scoundrel50a> half way through
<hamitron> oimon: don't start this convo again ;/
<oimon> hamitron: wasn't here last time :(
<hamitron> ah :D
<oimon> did it get messy?
<willy1977> what conversation is this then...
<hamitron> about what and where swap should be
<willy1977> oh flippin' eck yeah that did get messy :D
<hamitron> I have since thought of another reason to have a seperate partition though
<oimon> i forgot to add swap space after my last disk swap
<oimon> no biggie
 * oimon has run out of crisps. if the world ends today, you can blame me
<hamitron> popey: !partitions is pointing to something very out of date
<scoundrel50a> ok, its rebooting
<scoundrel50a> ok, what difference would it make if swap came after the ubuntu partion?
<scoundrel50a> I coldnt find a way to move it
<AlanBell> not much difference
<scoundrel50a> ok
<AlanBell> only gets in the way if you want to expand a partition
<AlanBell> so you can delete it, grow the partition, create new swap
<AlanBell> no big deal
<AlanBell> just check in fstab for uuids not matching
<scoundrel50a> I doubt very much I will be fiddling with that again, so it should be ok the way it is,
<scoundrel50a> how do I do that?
<scoundrel50a> waiting for updates to install at the moment, asthe
<oimon> i used to moan about gwibber...hotot is using 271mb resident memory..more than my 20+ Openoffice windows
<scoundrel50a> as the wireless isnt working again
<scoundrel50a> what is uuids
<oimon> scoundrel50a: install the package i mentioned yesterday
<scoundrel50a> doing that now
<scoundrel50a> but at least the touchpad is working
<TheOpenSourcerer> ping popey and AlanBell
<AlanBell> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> What time are we meeting this evening?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm probably going to walk down there and get to the Cobbet for 6:30 ish or so.
<AlanBell> filace should be in the lamb from 6ish
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - who is filace? Do I know him/her
<AlanBell> big lad, hangs about with czajkowski :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh that one.
<TheOpenSourcerer> What's his name... The bloke who sounds just like lee mack
<AlanBell> @filace on twitter and irc
<AlanBell> Jon Fautley
<AlanBell> actually Filbert on IRC
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yep - just found him on twitter.
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ah, oops sorry I missed the meeting last night dude - was swamped with work
<AlanBell> never mind, we all kind of forgot
<HazRPG> as biglesp said, the group is sort of coming back to life, and I did email them straight after
 * AlanBell wonders if http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/ will fill up as fast as oggcamp
<HazRPG> I think there's a meet for Cumbria LUG soon in fact
 * AlanBell suspects not
<AlanBell> http://oggcamp11.eventbrite.com/ 10 remaining!
<DJones> \o/ Natty upgrade sucessfully completed
<Pendulum> AlanBell: how is it that Jan Fautley is attending, but czajkowski isn't?
<HazRPG> I would go to oggcamp... but surrey is just wayyyyyyyyy to far for me
<AlanBell> she is broken :(
<HazRPG> esp if I'm going on my own
<Pendulum> AlanBell: also, aren't you worried that he'll spy? ;-)
<AlanBell> s/Jan/Jon/
<Pendulum> yeah
<Pendulum> that was finger fail
<AlanBell> I think he will spy lots of beer
<HazRPG> ;p
<czajkowski> Aloha
<AlanBell> o/
<HazRPG> I'll read more on the meeting notes later
<czajkowski> Pendulum: what's jon going to that I'm not
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's the back and rash kiddo
<Pendulum> czajkowski: he's confirmed attending http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/
<popey> HazRPG: where are you based?
<czajkowski> wow and I didnt even mention it to him
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> oh that
<czajkowski> davmor2: rash gone
<czajkowski> back a good bit better thanks
<HazRPG> popey: Carlisle/Cumbria area
<Tommeh> You wait, he'll turn up with a bomb that says 'RPM FOREVER!!'
<AlanBell> Pendulum: I thought you were talking about the beerex
<popey> HazRPG: one guy is coming from france :)
<popey> AlanBell: TheOpenSourcerer I will be at the lamb for 6-6:30
<Pendulum> AlanBell: haha. no
<HazRPG> popey: no way
<HazRPG> popey: hmm
<popey> yws
<popey> er
<popey> way
<Pendulum> popey: No`?
<AlanBell> he is making a habit of going to events without czajkowski then!
<HazRPG> when I said too far, I meant too expensive for my pocket :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cool popey - I will see you there.
<HazRPG> if I could get a car load down, it would be worth my while :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: good I'm glad to hear it,  soon be fighting fit again then :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: I'll probably be walking past your door at about 17:45... Should I knock and the run away ;-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> /the/then
<Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: why warn him?
 * oimon ponders oggcamp
<AlanBell> good idea, we can both run down to the pub
<davmor2> czajkowski: fantastic, I can't tell you how hard it's been not picking on you :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, not sure about the "running" bit.
<AlanBell> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> Haven't done that in years
<TheOpenSourcerer> decades even
<TheOpenSourcerer> Apart from the odd dash for last orders you understand
<czajkowski> davmor2: :)
<oimon> are the oggcamp 2010 videos available yet ;)
<AlanBell> http://twitter.com/#!/talkoss nope
<oimon> ummm maybe he needs some croudsourcing
<marxjohnson> https://teambox.com/public/ogg-camp
<marxjohnson> That's the "to-do" list apparently ;-)
<AlanBell> yeah, I suggested they just give the presenters the raw video and let them get on with it
<AlanBell> they said . . .
<oimon> ...
<oimon> great idea?
<AlanBell> Our video editors have come back to us last week with the first cuts. We just need to give them slide timings and they will be done.
<AlanBell> on 8th March
<oimon> maybe i will just watch the 2010 oggcamps in august "as live" when you guys and girls go to farnham
<AlanBell> just stick it on youtube and be done. ARGGGHH
<oimon> if that was my wedding vid taking 9 months i'd be rather pee'd off
<marxjohnson> We're discussing better/faster ways of sourcing videos this year
<marxjohnson> like getting attendees to do them and bang them a service with appropriate tagging so we can pull them all together
<oimon> that way they actually get watched
<oimon> interest in viewing videos of a conference must have a half life of a couple of months or so
<marxjohnson> yeah
<HazRPG> anyone seen the effect the meerkat tee does on Cheese webcam tool?
<HazRPG> it looks rather cool: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/tmp/2011-04-15-141038.jpg
<oimon> HazRPG: are you inside the matrix?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: HazRPG = neo
<HazRPG> xD
<MartijnVdS> (someone! make his phone ring NOW)
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> don't ya know, I see it all unencrypted - via its source code!
<brobostigon> good afternoon HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: good afternoon
<popey> hahah
<popey> nice t-shirt
<MartijnVdS> looks a bit "Thundercats"ish
<brobostigon> interesting picture.
<HazRPG> popey: I wish it actually did look like that now :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - Libre Office put the wind up Oracle by the looks of it: http://blogs.oracle.com/trond/2011/04/openofficeorg_to_become_a_pure.html
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I think that was the idea with the Meerkat tee
<TheOpenSourcerer> Or they have realised there's no money in OOo.
<MartijnVdS> -> home
<oimon> hmm started munching on a bag of fruit flakes that appear to be best before aug 2010
<popey> "Oracle has a long history of investing in the development and support of open source products"
<popey> *snort*
<hamitron> only when it benefits themselves ;/
<AlanBell> "only when it benefits themselves" is a perfectly good time to do it
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<AlanBell> however I don't think they are very good at giving back
<dutchie> it is better than "never"
<danfish> if the alans are at the beer festival together, why are they talking to each other via IRC rather than face to face?
<czajkowski> I'd like a week with no trips to A&E or doctors please
<danfish> oh, beerex doesn't start til laters. My fault :)
<czajkowski> twice in one week to both is a bit much
<czajkowski> but hats off to St.Thomas in London for being excellent
 * danfish tickles czajkowski with the tickle stick of healing
<oimon> it takes 8 weeks to get a checkup for my little boy
<czajkowski> danfish: it's been a long week I'd like some good kamra please
<czajkowski> danfish: woke up yesterday with uvula so swollen it was sitting on my tongue and not letting me swollow or talk so kinda freaked me out
<AlanBell> !upstart
<lubotu3> Upstart is meant to replace the old Sys V Init system with an event-driven init model.  For more information please see: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
<Azelphur> Today just isn't my day haha, namehost server DDoS'd, TF2 Update breaks everything, all plugins require a fix, wake up in the morning after going to sleep at 7am to find my dads unplugged the modem and taken it to his office \o/
<Azelphur> Life as a sysadmin \o/
<nucc1> Azelphur, very funny, the dad part.
<hamitron> Azelphur: mine is worse....
<Azelphur> nucc1: indeed
<hamitron> installing Windows ME in a few hours
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> hamitron: lol why
<nucc1> Azelphur, hamitron has ceased to surprise me.
<Azelphur> xD
<hamitron> never got this laptop working with windows 98 well
<Azelphur> on the bright side, after 7 months of arguing we're finally on an unmetered connection
<Azelphur> rather than 60GB/mo between 5 people
<danfish> czajkowski: sounds unpleasant. Feeling better today?
<hamitron> Azelphur: with who?
<nucc1> Azelphur, he he he. last month, i topped 90GB.
<czajkowski> yeah they gave me steroid and antihestimeans(sp)
<Azelphur> hamitron: sky
<czajkowski> but then I broke out in a rash so they wouldnt let me go home for a while
<hamitron> it is properly unmetered?
<nucc1> most of them throttle though
<danfish> czajkowski: oops :(
<nucc1> but they advertise no caps
<hamitron> I read sky was 40Gb
<Azelphur> hamitron: yup, no limits I know about
<Azelphur> hamitron: no, specifically no FUP
<hamitron> gl
<hamitron> :)
<czajkowski> danfish: yeah oppps
<Azelphur> there's a video from a couple years ago with the sky CEO announcing they dropped the FUP and switch to us for truely unlimited broadband xD
<Azelphur> on the gadget show.
<oimon> a lot changing in 2 yrs
<nucc1> what's FUP?
<Azelphur> fair usage policy
<nucc1> lol
<Azelphur> their website still doesn't say Unlimited*
<Azelphur> It says Unlimited.
<nucc1> sky hugh
<nucc1> is it xDSL?
<Azelphur> yup
<nucc1> something about DSL being based on copper makes me wary. i don't know.
<hamitron> Azelphur: is your line with sky too?
<Azelphur> hamitron: yea, I had to get a second line for it
<hamitron> static ip?
<hamitron> i iz interested
<hamitron> :)
<Azelphur> nope no static
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> I don't trust that they are unlimited either
<Azelphur> but I'm about to find out. :-)
<nucc1> Azelphur, but it's a routable IP probably, just it changes every few months?
<Azelphur> nucc1: yup
<hamitron> I've played with changing to the business 2mbit service
<nucc1> Azelphur, that's good enough unless you're doing hosting :p
<hamitron> my 440kbit upload is slooooooooow
<czajkowski> danfish: how does one go about getting an alergy test in this country
<czajkowski> it seems rather difficult
<Azelphur> nucc1: yea, I like having a dns pointed at my IP but nothing dydns can't take care of
<czajkowski> back home you just get a rast test done at hospital when they do a blood test
<hamitron> czajkowski: your GP?
<Azelphur> hamitron: main downside is ToS says you can only use their router
<hamitron> my mother had a lot of tests
<Azelphur> hamitron: which is no problem, I'm using their router, it's plugged into my routers WAN Port :-)
<Azelphur> and my router is DMZ'd
<czajkowski> nope
<Azelphur> teehee.
<hamitron> Azelphur: that is ok if their router can handle your traffic
<Azelphur> hamitron: most routers can handle near their full throughput with one client, unencrypted, and wifi turned off.
<Azelphur> I've never seen one that couldn't.
<hamitron> the simultanious connections I've found to be a problem is the past
<oimon> czajkowski: my GP discouraged me from getting an allergy test...probably due to cost to the nhs
<nucc1> hmmm, is there a netspeed applet for unity?
<czajkowski> yes well... I need one to rule out me being alergic to antiflammatorys which is rather bad seeing as I need them for my back.
<bigcalm> Anybody seen this today? http://www.aperturescience.com/a/b/c/d/g/h/abcdgh/
<hamitron> czajkowski: if you are having problems that are very bad, I'm sure your GP will provide
<oimon> hopefully your GP is better than mine. mine seems to think i'm a hypochondriac even though i haven't been for 6 years
<danfish> czajkowski: not sure there is a RAST test for anti-inflammatories
<czajkowski> danfish: aye that's what I figured as much as well. bugger
 * TheOpenSourcerer says pah to RAST tests.
<TheOpenSourcerer> they completely failed to detect a *severe* peanut allergy in my son.
<hamitron> I get burning patches on my arms when I handle paper printed on most lasor printers.... no paperwork for me.... that is my story and I am sticking to it!
<TheOpenSourcerer> A skin-prick test we had to pay for at a private consultant did though.
<danfish> skin prick testing for peanut allergies - brave consultant!
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: We didn't know he had a peanut allergy. We were trying to find if anything was exacerbating his exzema
<TheOpenSourcerer> He'd had several RAST tests and nothing reproted out of the ordinary
<hamitron> I suppose some things are harder to test than others :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> When the peanut prick swelled the bloke looked at us and said "You do carry an epipen don't you?"
<Pendulum> I think RAST tests are food allergies only, but they aren't supposed to be that accurate
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/that//
<TheOpenSourcerer> One result the hsopital said he was allergic to "everything"
<popey> yay, hugo may be coming to the beerex too
<Pendulum> according to the RAST test I had done years ago, I should have a low-grade reaction to most foods and a definite reaction to anything involving mold in food (blue cheese, yogurt, tofu were the things mentioned)
<TheOpenSourcerer> The other test they said was normal.
<Pendulum> interestingly, I've never liked yogurt or been a huge fan of blue cheese (all other cheeses I've had I adore)
 * popey goes home to "spruce"
 * TheOpenSourcerer loves Manchengo. My all-time favourite cheese.
<ging> i dont understand how someone thought hmm this cheese has visible mold on it, that will make it nicer nom nom nom
<hamitron> gets stronger with age?
<oimon> cheese is just wrong
<davmor2> oimon: why?
<hamitron> tbh, I am more impressed someone thought of cheese at all ;)
<willy1977> oimon: :o how very dare you!
<hamitron> bacon > cheese
<hamitron> ;)
 * czajkowski stops her feet
<czajkowski> for 3 years I've heard about this beer festival
<hamitron> stops?
<czajkowski> I'm finally over here for it and can't go
<czajkowski> *STOMPS
<AlanBell> we will miss you
<hamitron> k :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Want me to send a wheelchair?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: popey TheOpenSourcerer have fun ye buggers
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: nope, cant drink
<AlanBell> especially when sampling the hundreds of ciders
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lol
<AlanBell> and the perry
<TheOpenSourcerer> That must be very hard czajkowski
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: ah that makes sense now!
<AlanBell> in fact that whole room full of cider
<czajkowski> AlanBell: dont choke!
<czajkowski> >:(
<czajkowski> meanies
<hamitron> 30Gb hdd, how to partition it? ;/
<TheOpenSourcerer> hamitron: Why?
<hamitron> gotta fit as many different OS as possible, but leave enough for Windows ME gaming
<jpds> hamitron: gparted.
<hamitron> I will be using fdisk ty ;/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Most Linux OSes will fit in 2-3GB if you are frugal.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Use a common swap.
<gordonjcp> 256k
<gordonjcp> you won't (easily) fit a modern desktop install into that
<jpds> hamitron: 640K partitions should be enough for everyone.
<hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer: a reason i thought of today, why it is a good idea to have swap on a partition :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> If you've enough RAM then you don't.
<hamitron> 512mb ram
<hamitron> ;/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd have some swap.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Otherwise your system might just DIE
<TheOpenSourcerer> through lack of memory
<hamitron> it normally does ;)
<hamitron> abuse ftw \o/
<hamitron> thinking 20Gb for windows ME, then rest for maybe 6 or 7 distro
<Tommeh> You're wasting rust on ME?
<hamitron> games baby!
<Tommeh> Did you miss the disk burning when XP came out?
<hamitron> this is my retro gaming rig
<Tommeh> 98 then ;)
<hamitron> I wish :/
<Tommeh> Or 2K, for that matter.
<hamitron> for some reason, 98 doesn't work well
<hamitron> and 2k is too new
<MooDoo> just use dos6.22 and play doom like the rest of us
<hamitron> I grew up in the 9x erra :/
<hamitron> most my games are from then
 * MooDoo suts up
<hamitron> on the plus side, I got a lower spec toy to break :)
<hamitron> should save this from so much abuse
<TheOpenSourcerer> ROTFLMAO: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/before-you-install-windows-home-server-2011-rtfm-seriously/3134
<TheOpenSourcerer> Really - read this ^^-^^
<phonex01> hi guys
<phonex01> im using wine and i need to use serial port !
<phonex01> my serial port on ubuntu called ttyUSB1 and i want to use it with wine
<phonex01> how can i do that !!!!
<oimon> phonex01: have you read the wine docs?
<oimon> e.g. http://www.winehq.org/docs/wineusr-guide/misc-things-to-configure
<phonex01> hi thank you  i did it
<phonex01> i used ln command and its work !
<phonex01> sudo ln -s /dev/ttyUSB4 com1
<Tommeh> Heh, useful
<oimon> anyone still using norton ghost for windows imaging?
<oimon> we have been using acronis but it uses a licence each machine you restore an image to! $$Â£Â£Â£
<phonex01> norton ghost is very bad for the health of your hard disk
<phonex01> use acronis on hiren boot cd it is free
<TheOpenSourcerer> See you all later then. AlanBell I'll bang on your door about 17:30-17:45
<AlanBell> ok, see you later
<hamitron> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<seeker> Is portal 2 out now?
<bigcalm> No :(
<bigcalm> http://www.aperturescience.com/glados@home/
<kirrus> Clever
<seeker> Can't see the link on my phone :(
<bigcalm> It's to get people to buy more games
<oimon> nothing to do with beefy miracle then?
<bigcalm> Portal 2 is the only thing on anybody's mind right now
<oimon> http://blog.ianweller.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/hotdog-tshirt-fudcon.png
<directhex> bigcalm, genius
<HazRPG> anyone have issues with skype?
<bigcalm> HazRPG: yes, it's not open source
<bigcalm> !
<HazRPG> I've had it die twice so far in mid conversation
<ali12341> it's funny that people will buy a whole bunch of sucky games just to get a potato so they can look at some concept art for portal 2
<HazRPG> bigcalm: well yeah, I know this :P
<davmor2> hahaha darwinia has a spoof spectrum loading screen as a raytracer :D
<bigcalm> directhex: have you bought the potato sack then?
 * bigcalm will not be doing so
<bigcalm> I can wait until Tuesday
<directhex> bigcalm, can't justify it when i already own half the games
<directhex> ali12341, um... aren't you the one who complains about modern gaming being rubbish?
<ali12341> directhex: yes
<ali12341> case in point, people will only buy that stuff if there's a tie in with a game that's actually good
<directhex> so you hate big-franchise shooters, but hate on indie games without playing them?
<ali12341> yes
<Azelphur> so, now I'm on dynamic IP, I own my own domain and want to have a subdomain that always points at my current home address, magnets how do they work?
<seeker> So you don't like "modern" games, you don't like indie games, so you don't really like games. So you are basically trolling.
<ali12341> oh, i like good games
<ali12341> unfortunately just because a game was made on a shoe string budget does not mean it is good
<directhex> um, i never said that. but it doesn't make it bad either
<ali12341> i never said it did
<ali12341> i just said that these particular games are sucky
<gord> jsut fyi, most of the games in that potato whatever are actually pretty good
<seeker> ali12341: Have you played them?
<gord> amnesia is critically acclaimed - killing floor is hugely popular, bit trip beat again critically acclaimed, same for super meat boy
<ali12341> well killing floor is an FPS game therefore identical to every other FPS game released in the last 10 years
<seeker> ali12341: If not, stop denouncing things you have never tried. It isn't big and it isn't clever.
<gord> ali12341, nope, its not
<gord> have you not played it? i have
<ali12341> gord it's not a FPS?
<gord> its fps, its not identical to every other fps
<ali12341> you don't shoot zombies with guns on it?
<directhex> i own that one too, although i've not played it. it demands playing in co-op fashion, i prefer singleplayer
<ali12341> lol, that statement is a contradiction in terms, all FPS are identical
<seeker> Ubuntu is a Linux distro and therefore identical to every other linux
<seeker> Distro
<ali12341> seeker that's true once you strip out the canonical branding...
<gord> potato is a vegetable and therefore is identical to a carrot
<bigcalm> http://imgur.com/TJVGn
<seeker> This is an irc conversation, and therefore identical to every other irc conversation. It starts out with someone making outrageous claims about something they have never
<ali12341> also true
<gord> someone modded minecraft to have guns once, guess that makes it the same as call of duty
<seeker> Tried/seen/experienced, and then...
<seeker> ali12341: So is portal the same as CoD?
<ali12341> seeker no
<ali12341> portal does not have any guns
<seeker> Yes it does
<ali12341> oh really?
<seeker> The whole game is about shooting stuff
<ali12341> where?
<seeker> With portals
<seeker> It's just a special type of ammo for a gun
<ali12341> um, no
<ali12341> portals can't even attach to moving objects, sorry
<seeker> But just like every other gun it makes holes in what you shoot it at
<ali12341> so i guess it's kind of like a FPS, where you only ever shoot none moving targets
<ali12341> which is original in itself
<seeker> A) it is a first person game
<seeker> B) you shoot at X
<hamitron> wow, booting off usb 1.1 is slow
<ali12341> plenty of games are first person
<seeker> In this case X is a wall
<gord> portal is the same game as doom
<gord> everyone knows this
<seeker> Therefore it is a FPS
<ali12341> it has nothing to do with games where you shoot zombies with shotguns
<directhex> gord, identical!
<seeker> And, by your reasoning is identical to every other FPS game in the last 10 tears
<seeker> *years
<seeker> Oh, wait, it isn't. Congratulations for arguing against your own statement
<ali12341> um, no
<ali12341> portal doesn't have shotguns or zombies
<gord> my life is basically the same thing as mario, as sometimes i go on a platform
<directhex> the whole discussion is asinine
<gord> sometimes i eat mushrooms
<ali12341> also i love how you can only argue your point by using the logical fallacies that you accuse me of
<seeker> ali12341: well killing floor is an FPS game therefore identical to every other FPS game released in the last 10 years
<hamitron> it is using the same engine to create something a little bit different ;/
<ali12341> seeker yes that is true. it has zombies, it has shotguns
<seeker> Your statement didnt mention shotguns or zombies
<ali12341> zombies and shotguns are taken as a given for any FPS
<seeker> You just generalised all FPS
<ali12341> um yes
<ali12341> exactly
<ali12341> all FPS can be summed up as "zombies and shotguns"
<directhex> okay, a less asinine comparison:
<seeker> But portal is an FPS
<directhex> are killiong floor and amnesia the same?
<ali12341> nope, amnesia is not a FPS either
<directhex> fallout 3 has shotguns and zombies. is it call of duty?
<seeker> The definition of a FPS isnt "shotguns and zombies"
<seeker> It is a game, in first person view, where you shoot things.
<ali12341> i forgot the crates
<ali12341> zombies, shotguns and crates
<ali12341> and make sure everything is brown as well
<seeker> You cant say that all FPS are identical, provided you restrict FPS games to those with zombies and shotguns
<hamitron> the ones with humans, shotguns and crates are a different genre ;)
<ali12341> i can, and i did :)
<hamitron> hehe
<hamitron> it is like racing games... same sorta thing but not the same
<directhex> mario kart is gran turismo?
<nucc1> erm, anyone using gnome3 here? some of my programs don't seem to be using the gnome3 theme
<ali12341> well except for the fact that 99% of racing games are indestiguishable
 * hamitron spanks ali12341
<hamitron> how dare you ;/
<nucc1> ali12341, most have different nuances
<ali12341> mario kart is not gran turismo, here is how you tell them apart: if you're having fun, you're playing mario kart
<seeker> ali12341: In that case, you aren't using thesame definition as the rest of the world, and are therefore just trolling.
<nucc1> different driving physics and stuff
<nucc1> i don't like Gran Tourismo cos it's too "real".
<ali12341> if you're not even sure what game you're playing, it might be gran turismo, or test drive, or one of those
<hamitron> GT is not real :/
<bigcalm> Best racing game I miss is Re-Volt
<hamitron> Re-Volt \o.
<hamitron> \o/
<nucc1> i prefer my racing games to have lots of fantasy moves in them
<hamitron> and rollcage
<nucc1> hence, Need for speed
<davmor2> bigcalm: no racing games peeked with mircomachines
<directhex> rc pro am
<bigcalm> Rollcage was a good one to make one feel one was going damn fast
<hamitron> bigcalm: yeh
<directhex> wipeout is fun in 3d
<directhex> it works well in 3d
<bigcalm> I wonder if Re-Volt is on GoG
<hamitron> I has Re-Volt
<hamitron> :)
<bigcalm> It's not on GoG :(
<hamitron> but I try buy every racing game
<hamitron> or used to
<hamitron> :/
<bigcalm> I used to have it, but it stopped working on OSes between then and now
<hamitron> well, I am installing Windows ME so will remind you how good it plays later ;)
<hamitron> just making space for windows, then sorted
<hamitron> although, think I've wrecked grub2 :/
<hamitron> I made a file at /etc/grub.d/60_ham
<hamitron> and now it just boots straight off my usb
<hamitron> oh noes
<hamitron> I missed off the { and }
<hamitron> *face meets palm*
<bigcalm> hamitron: http://rv12.zackattackgames.com/
<hamitron> nice :D
<hamitron> guess I can play without fixing my other machine
<popey> WHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEE!
<hamitron> popey: ?
<DJones> Somebody greased popey's slide
<MartijnVdS> ....
<MartijnVdS> I think it's popey-weekend
<hamitron> if you have messed up grub2 config, can you press some hot key to not load the config?
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: I don't think so.. insert rescue CD :)
<hamitron> no cd drive
<MartijnVdS> Rescue USB stick
<hamitron> and mobo too old to boot from usb
<hamitron> haha
<MartijnVdS> Rescue floppy?
<hamitron> not got a working comp with a floppy drive in this room ;)
<hamitron> guess I could go into the garage
 * hamitron grumbles
<MartijnVdS> Put the disk in another machine, fix config?
<MartijnVdS> put disk back?
<hamitron> can i modify the config from the grub command line?
<MartijnVdS> You can boot manually from the command line
<MartijnVdS> then fix it in the booted OS
<hamitron> !info grub2 cli
<lubotu3> 'cli' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<hamitron> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<Azelphur> popey: with rsnapshot do you take a snapshot of / usually
<Azelphur> or do you just do /home
<popey> Azelphur: yes, and some exclusions
<directhex> decided to buy the potato sack & portal 2. you only live once.
<bigcalm> :O
<directhex> there's a bundle
<bigcalm> I don't see the release date dropping
<Azelphur> popey: care to elaborate? I'd like to start doing it on my server
<Azelphur> I'm not sure how it'd work permissions wise without a root user
<hamitron> directhex: potato sack?
<directhex> hamitron: the collection of 13 indie games ali12341 complained were crap by definition
<ali12341> um no
<ali12341> i didn't say they were crap by definition
<ali12341> i said they were crap
<bigcalm> And you've played each one?
<ali12341> then you put words into my mouth saying that i hate *all* indie games
<ali12341> bigcalm: no, because i don't buy crap, sorry
<ali12341> i looked at the demo videos of each one on steam
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> tbh, they do look crap :/
<hamitron> or at least most of them
<directhex> woo, demo videos.
<hamitron> how I run "update-grub" from inside a chroot'ed environment?
<hamitron> or would modifying /boot/grub/grub.cfg be enough to boot?
<ali12341> it depends
<hamitron> ouuuu
<hamitron> I got my main OS booting \o/
<MartijnVdS> hamitron: woohoo
<hamitron> least I have another go to make or break it :)
<hamitron> damn, this is why I love linux
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> with everything so easy, I've been getting lazy and missed this sort of thing
<DJones> Is ubuntuforums.org down for people, it looks as though its down to me
<ali12341> DJones: they are testing a new spam filter
<ali12341> DJones: there's a post of the forums about it
<DJones> ali12341: ok, just come back up
<ali12341> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1729768
<ali12341> i don;t know how you're supposed to read that if you're accidentally banned
<ali12341> but there you go
<gordonjcp> ali12341: seems down for me...
<DJones> Its a bit flakey, working one minute, dead the next
<scoundrel50a> Just wanted to thank those that helped me this afternoon, in getting my Ubuntu back, and helping to delete a partition, My Ubuntu 10.10 seems to be working ok again. I'm just testing my windows partition now, its going through a scandisk, but everything looks ok. Thanks again.
<jonsaint> hi all. HELP! i cant get my update manager to update. i got a no entry sign at the top of my screen!
<jonsaint> anyone here?
<jonsaint> il come back later to see if anyone can help me.
<ali12341> heh, even microsoft knows native is better
<hamitron> ali12341: ?
<ali12341> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2011/04/12/native-html5-first-ie10-platform-preview-available-for-download.aspx
<ali12341> "Web sites and HTML5 run best when they run natively, on a browser optimized for the operating system on your device."
<hamitron> no shit
<hamitron> errr
<hamitron> no messing ;/
<ali12341> i wonder what browsers don't run natively
<hamitron> I get the feeling a lot of stuff doesn't :/
<ali12341> perhaps ones that run on a VM layer...
<hamitron> that or everything is getting slower
<hamitron> I guess each way of doing something, has its own advantages
<hamitron> and I am glad to see, some are taking performance seriously for once
<hamitron> Â¬Â¬
<ali12341> here is one http://lobobrowser.org/cobra.jsp
<ali12341> can't find any others
<directhex> sounds like it's an attempt to say "sandboxing your tabs is BAD and WRONG, we don't do it because we're AWESOME"
<hamitron> it is certainly cheating, when it comes to security
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but that doesn't have to be a bad thing
<ali12341> sandboxing the browser is pointless anyway
<ali12341> why should the browser get extra security?
<ali12341> every app should be sandboxed by default by the OS
<ali12341> especially now that the trend of making your application in HTML has completely reversed into making your webpage an app
<hamitron> ali12341: sandboxing as a whole can be good, but it is an extra layer that is going to take resources
<hamitron> overly complicates things
<hamitron> and in an ideal world, I wouldn;t want it
<ali12341> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/commit/?id=7460f26f9243e6b1745a448b8dc05b15d12aa86e
<ali12341> gvfsd bug got fixed :)
<hamitron> brb, restart
<nucc1> echo.
<suprengr> just logged in so pardon if it's been here before but this is worth a smile / grin / laugh / other emotion...
<suprengr> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/04/15/194235/OpenOfficeorg-To-Be-Given-Back-To-the-Community?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
<hamitron> suprengr: a *sigh* I think
<hamitron> and not of relief
<hamitron> ;)
<suprengr> Notice to all competitors of Oracle... call yourself Libre Office and see them run ;)
<ali12341> libre office is a better name than OOoOO.OoOo or whatever it was called
<brobostigon> openoffice.org*
<matti> ;]
<brobostigon> good evening matti :)
<matti> Hey brobostigon ;]
<hamitron> !pxe
<hamitron> !netboot
<lubotu3> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall - Don't want to use a CD? See http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
<zleap> does anyone know how nvidia ion 2 is supported in ubuntu
<zleap> i am looking at getting a Acer Aspire Revo R3700 Desktop
<daftykins> zleap: nvidia binary drivers, be fine
<zleap> ok
<daftykins> i run ion 1's myself
<zleap> ok
<daftykins> just setup another 4 for a client as HTPCs around his house ^_^
<zleap> well this thing is <200 quid
<daftykins> yeah, similar sort of gear
<zleap> so seems for what I am going to use it for, fine
<daftykins> atom+ion
<daftykins> as long as it won't be a primary desktop they're good yep :)
<zleap> whats wrong with it being a primary desktop
<zleap> all i generally use my computer for here, is web, e-mail, typing, irc
<zleap> and a few Linux games
<ali12341> as long as games = solitaire and minesweeper it will be fine
<daftykins> atom processors can be very painful for even web browsing, given the heavily laden flash and javascript nature of modern sites
<zleap> ah
<daftykins> but it's not impossible
<zleap> surely a dual atom processor + ion which is nmeant to give 10x performance of integrated graphics
<ali12341> not for browsing
<zleap> ah
<ali12341> nvidia driver + firefox = worse performance than integrated graphics
<daftykins> the only benefit you'll get is with video sites like youtube, from the Ion graphics
<zleap> well how would it compare to a duron 1600 + 1gb ram + geforce 4
<daftykins> as that'll let the little boxes play HD video
<daftykins> not that you can truthfully call youtube's video HD...
<zleap> hmm
<ali12341> rubbish
<ali12341> youtube's HD is a lot better than the BBC's HD
<daftykins> it'll have a slight edge graphically, but you won't feel too much of a processor kick
<zleap> hmm
<daftykins> how does making a comparison invalidate my statement?
<zleap> dunno,  i was just asking
<ali12341> ok then, let me put it this way, youtube's HD is HD by every possible definition of the term
<zleap> given my current pc is about 8 years old,  and this is pretty new I would expect better performance
<ali12341> (and the BBC's is not)
<zleap> ok,  so what should i look at for a low powered system then
<ali12341> pinetrail every time
<daftykins> yeah but Atoms aren't mainstream
<hamitron> i3 \o/
<zleap> ok
<daftykins> they're netbook gear put in the desktop form factor for obscure reasons :D
<zleap> yeah have atom in my dell 10v
<daftykins> you'd basically be buying one of those that can play back HD video
<zleap> plays glest far better than my desktop does,  which reminds me I need to see if i can install open arena to play at the lighthouse (local youth project I am setting up pc's for)
<zleap> extra client so I can get my butt kicked by the kids down there :D
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> i was too lazy to even set up a client for myself when i let the students play UT on the last day of term
<zleap> ah
<daftykins> though i did have my client run a dedicated server
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> but they all favour CS 1.6 =/ foolish youngsters
<zleap> well i think we are 100 percent Ubuntu
<zleap> not sure about a few of the laptops people use, that could run windows, but all the main computers run Ubuntu
<brobostigon> good night eveyone, sleep well.
<nucc1> my alt+tab isn't working (gnome3)...
<daftykins> alt+shift+tab too?
<nucc1> daftykins: got help from #gnome3. it turns out tobe keyboard shortcuts.
<daftykins> in what way, given of course alt+tab is a keyboard shortcut?
<nucc1> they were disabled by default.
<nucc1> no idea why.
<daftykins> ah, strange
<nucc1> i thought all apps would look "gnome3".
<nucc1> turns out most apps still have the gnome2 look.
<nucc1> a little disappointing that, but quite understandable.
<nucc1> wonder if i would have the time to take a stab at porting a small app myself.
<daftykins> gnome3 changing from gtk or something?
<nucc1> no
<nucc1> just that gtk2 apps use the clearlooks engine
<nucc1> and gtk3 apps use the newer theme
<daftykins> ah
<nucc1> woulda been so cool if they all looked "modern" :)
<nucc1> and the terminal seems to have some braindead defaults.
<nucc1> like it no longer shows your pwd.
<nucc1> and username.
<daftykins> =/
<nucc1> and i can't see to get tab completion working.
<daftykins> i struggled with that style at Uni :D so annoying not seeing the wd
<daftykins> a coursemate fiddled with his bash profile and broke his account, had to ask an admin to reset it :D
<nucc1> i'm wondering how to re-enable it.
<nucc1> at least i'm admin here :)
<nucc1> he he. my current locale is some ANSI thingy.
<daftykins> the style should be stored in the .bash_profile no?
<daftykins> i'm probably remembering wrong
<nucc1> wierd
<AlanBell> Evening all
<daftykins> hi Alan
<nucc1> bon soir
<nucc1> daftykins: i don't think my brain is in the frame to do any searching :/
<daftykins> same, i have shirked all responsibility today
<nucc1> empathy is a really shiny irc client though :p
<nucc1> can't stop oogling it
 * AlanBell is a titchiy bit drunk and waiting for an indian with popey and theopensourcerer
<nucc1> he he
<AlanBell> Chicken rogan josh is here
<Pendulum> AlanBell: good night then?
<Pendulum> now you have me tempted to order curry :(
 * nucc1 shuts his ears
<nucc1> good thing it's midnight :)
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-16
<AlanBell> Pendulum: yup I think so, how are you?
<Pendulum> tired
<AlanBell> Aww
<AlanBell> Wish you were here
<matti> ;]
 * AlanBell is perhaps a tiny bit pissed
<Azelphur> Hmm, I'm having a fun technical conundrum with my new sky connection
<Azelphur> I have a dynamic DNS which points to my external IP, all good
<daftykins> right
<Azelphur> And I use my router which just connects via their router with DHCP
<daftykins> is it an amusing one? :>
<Azelphur> so my real router's wan address is 192.168.0.2, but my external address is obviously not xD
<Azelphur> I need nat reflection for the external IP to work :x
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> are you double NAT'ing 0o
<Azelphur> wonder how I could get dd-wrt to nat reflect the dynamic IP that it knows nothing about lol
<Azelphur> daftykins: no, and my port forwarding setup works.
<Azelphur> (so I can access my stuff externally, but I can't access it internally because no NAT reflection :D)
<hamitron> tracert it every 2 mins?
<Azelphur> wat o.O
<hamitron> traceroute
<daftykins> you could just grep info from an IP whois service then code your own dyndns submitter? :D
<daftykins> s/whois/check/
<ali12341> you need to configure your router to use a ppp half bridge
 * hamitron uses half bridge
<ali12341> also don't access your local services through nat, go directly to the lan with avahi
<Pendulum> AlanBell: possibly more than a tiny bit
<Azelphur> ali12341: but I want there to be one address I can access the services internally or externally
<ali12341> no
<ali12341> just no
<Azelphur> ...why not?
<ali12341> use a hostname instead
<hamitron> I do that with iptables on my router
<Azelphur> ali12341: I do use a hostname
<Azelphur> home.azelphur.com points at my home address :p
<ali12341> also it sounds a lot like you have double nat
<Azelphur> and that's what I use to access stuff
<Azelphur> I don't have a double nat, the sky router is configured to DMZ the DD-WRT router
<Azelphur> and my port forwards work.
<ali12341> that's double nat
<Azelphur> ok then :P
<Azelphur> not sure how much I can do to fix that from a sky router
<ali12341> configure it for half bridge
<ali12341> it sucks but it's better than what you have
<hamitron> if it does half-bridge?
<ali12341> if it doesn't do half bridge then just hack it
<hamitron> you could use DNAT on the router too
<ali12341> so which router does your PC get DHCP from?
<Azelphur> ali12341: dd-wrt
<ali12341> and dd-wrt is default gateway?
<hamitron> overheating_comp<->dd-wrt<->sky_crap<->WWW?
<ali12341> you have a few options actually
<ali12341> you can dmz dd-wrt then put the servers behind it, then connect PCs to sky router
<ali12341> echo home.azelphur.com 192.168.0.2 >> /etc/hosts
<ali12341> then it should work
<hamitron> I'd make the dmz in front of the dd-wrt
<ali12341> you can also do that in the DNS settings on dd-wrt
<ali12341> if you keep the PCs behind it and it runs DNS
<ali12341> half bridge is going to be the simplest though
<ali12341> even better just get the router firmware and reverse the password algorithm
<hamitron> or you could set the dd-wrt to mangle tcp/ip packets \o/
<hamitron> I like iptables, and not messing with local dns :)
<hamitron> ali12341: what is wrong with half bridging?
<ali12341> it's a nasty hack
<daftykins> NAT's a hack too :>
<ali12341> yeah
<ali12341> half bridging isn't as bad as a double nat
<daftykins> lol i was right about double NAT then, nasty
<hamitron> I have half bridging... then double nat behind that :/
<daftykins> D:
<hamitron> just cuz I can
<daftykins> you guys are just masochistic
<hamitron> ;/
<daftykins> i remember being on Quakenet, some guy coming on asking about setting it up
<daftykins> me saying he'd have to use one subnet on the first device, and another on the second
<daftykins> e.g. 192.168.0.x and 192.168.1.x
<daftykins> and he steadfastly refused to accept that as truth, hurled 'verbal' abuse and then left
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> good times
<ali12341> i don't get it
<daftykins> more of a personal story thing really
<daftykins> no actual joke
<hamitron> what happens if you have 4 network cards, each on a seperate 192.168.1.0/24 network?
<daftykins> just amazed at the stubborness of some to accept fact at times
<daftykins> well the level below still needs to be on a different subnet so it knows where to route packets
<ali12341> maybe you just didn't understand the problem
<daftykins> if so i had others in agreeance with me, equally confused
<daftykins> :)
<ali12341> Azelphur: what router is it? d-link?
<daftykins> wow i actually countered your attitude politely \o/
<daftykins> self high-five
<Azelphur> ali12341: I can't etc/hosts an android phone and a bunch of PCs XD
<Azelphur> ali12341: it's the stock sky one, not sure what
<daftykins> black, curved front?
<Azelphur> yup
<hamitron> Azelphur: why you need to host loads of stuff?
<daftykins> netgear DG834G rebranded as a DG934G
<daftykins> if it's the one my house had from tenants getting sky :o
<Azelphur> hamitron: I have an XMPP server I use for all my chat, so what ever device I'm on, where ever I am, it needs to just work :D
<hamitron> why not put the XMPP server in front of the dd-wrt?
<Azelphur> uhh, because then I'd have my entire PC in front of the dd-wrt
<Azelphur> and then dd-wrt would be pointless
<hamitron> ah
<daftykins> why are you even running a second router D:
<Azelphur> daftykins: because sky T&C's :P
<Azelphur> and DD-WRT doesn't suck
<hamitron> install another network card in your PC?
<Azelphur> getting crazy now people xD
<Azelphur> I just need nat reflection to work
<Azelphur> then everything works fine
<hamitron> then you can be be in front and behind at same time ;)
<ali12341> nat reflection you seek is up to the sky router
<daftykins> ^
<Azelphur> I see
<daftykins> can you not use one of those sites to find the real user+pass on the router
<daftykins> and then transplant a normal ADSL router / mod that one to official netgear firmware?
<Azelphur> daftykins: I can, but I was kinda hoping to stick to the sky router just for the lulz
<ali12341> here is the instructions for the newest router they ship: http://pathogenrush.blogspot.com/search/label/DSL2640S
<daftykins> :>
<Azelphur> yea
<ali12341> if you want to keep the sky router, then obtain a root login and reconfigure it's firewall
<Azelphur> I guess I'll get a modem and do that *shrug*
<daftykins> i've still got one of the DG934G's at my house
<daftykins> i was going to pinch it and mod it into a normal DG834G for the lulz
<Azelphur> anyone recommend a nice stand alone modem
<ali12341> they don't ship those any more
<Azelphur> to go into the wan port on my router :D
<daftykins> yes, i bought a draytek one a bit ago
<daftykins> draytek vigor 220 USB or something
<daftykins> it was about Â£40 from dabs
<hamitron> safecom asr8000
<ali12341> why do you need a modem?
<hamitron> ;)
<ali12341> reflash the sky router to be a modem
<daftykins> i've got it on a client's smoothwall PC
<daftykins> <o/ \o>
<ali12341> if your're not going to use it
<daftykins> mod it to the stock netgear and you can make it a modem only using a hidden page
<ali12341> i bet it has half bridge anyway
<Azelphur> ali12341: because I want to keep the sky router so that when there's an issue with the connection sky can't say fuck you go away :D
 * hamitron would just use the sky router in default setup, then use magic on the dd-wrt
<Azelphur> ali12341: so I don't want to root/low level mess with the sky router so that I can just plug it in when there's a problem and say look the lines broken
<ali12341> your easiest way is to just change the DNS in dd-wrt
<ali12341> to point to dd-wrt instead of the sky router
<Azelphur> I need a modem so that my cable router can do ADSL :)
<Azelphur> and it needs to be ADSL2+
<hamitron> point to his comp you mean ali12341
<ali12341> no
<Azelphur> I'm starting to not like this sky router anyway
<hamitron> his comp is hosting the service....
<Azelphur> Every time I get a disconnect for rate adaption, it says all web pages are 404
<Azelphur> so the router is clearly doing something it shouldn't with my web traffic
<ali12341> Azelphur: yeah that is pretty typical these days in crap ISp routers
<Azelphur> what's the purpose?
<ali12341> to stop people ringing up tech support
<ali12341> same as with everything
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> so that makes me want to get rid of their router rather rapidly
<Azelphur> ADSL2+ Modem it is :D
<hamitron> you could go with a proper isp? ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: what's ISP have to do with my internal hardware setup?
<hamitron> would let you use a normal router
<ali12341> well you could get an ISP that tells you the password
<Azelphur> hamitron: I can use a normal router :D
<Azelphur> and I can get the password
<Azelphur> and that's what I plan to do
<Azelphur> I just need an ADSL2+ modem to connect to it, suggestions? :D
<ali12341> or you could listen to me and just add a DNS entry for your hostname
<Azelphur> ali12341: how/where?
<ali12341> in dd-wrt, /etc/hosts
<Azelphur> ohhh
<Azelphur> that works :)
<ali12341> then any requests for home.azelphur.com go to 192.168.0.2 and you can configure dd-wrt to handle them however you want
<ali12341> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/DNSMasq_-_DNS_for_your_local_network_-_HOWTO
<AlanBell> Pendulum: that is just about possible, yet
<AlanBell> yes
<ali12341> Azelphur: looks like you need to do a few things, first is to determine if dd-wrt already runs a dns server
<Azelphur> confusing \o/
<Azelphur> ali12341: I kinda wanna be rid of the router because of the weird HTTP Proxy thing.
<ali12341> you can probably kill that with firewall
<ali12341> it will be done by DNS mangling
<Azelphur> would be easier to just get an ADSL2+ modem and remove the sky router from the equation
<ali12341> so tell dd-wrt to skip over the DNS it gets from DHCP (which point to the sky router) and go direct to ISP DNS
<ali12341> sure if you like spending money
<Azelphur> I'm cool with spending money :D
<hamitron> hehe
<Azelphur> so recommendations on an ADSL2+ Modem?
<ali12341> i dunno i would never use a modem
<Azelphur> something without all the bells and whistles :p
<ali12341> modems are identical to routers but with only 1 ethernet port on them
<ali12341> they run almost identical firmware
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> my usual setup is to have a dumb modem and my router dials PPPoE
<Azelphur> is that sane?
<ali12341> no
<Azelphur> :(
<ali12341> why have two boxes when you can have one?
 * popey tickles AlanBell 
 * AlanBell tickles popey
<Azelphur> ali12341: the DD-WRT router with an ethernet port can't connect to ADSL?
<popey> zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
<AlanBell> and finds typing challenging
<hamitron> ali12341: why have 1 when you can have 2?
<hamitron> ;)
<popey> ditto
<ali12341> Azelphur: so get a new router then
<AlanBell> the keys are not quite where I left them
<popey> bed
<popey> nn
<AlanBell> nn popey
<hamitron> is there a dd-wrt with dsl?
<Azelphur> ali12341: I don't want to replace my Â£120 Linksys WRT610N running DD-WRT
<Azelphur> also ^
<AlanBell> never have I found tab complete on the word popey useful before
<ali12341> Azelphur: "router dials PPPoE" is same as half bridge btw
<Azelphur> cool :D
<ali12341> it's fairly rubbish
<Azelphur> whys it rubbish?
<ali12341> because you have two routers that can mess up instead of one
<hamitron> another way to look at it, each router has less "load" on it
<Azelphur> ali12341: if it's a Router with an ADSL modem built in, isn't it 2 devices in one case anyway?
<hamitron> ;/
<ali12341> Azelphur: no
<ali12341> routers are 1 chip
<Azelphur> the reason I bought a cable router was so that when I switch connection type, what ever connection I switch to it should work fine on the ethernet port
<Azelphur> so a connection switch = swap out the modem
<Azelphur> and at the same time I keep a high powered modem which is capable of handling the heavy load at my house
<Azelphur> high powered router*
<Azelphur> A shitty Â£20 netgear works fine if you've got 1-2 people on it
<ali12341> a DSL router can use ethernet as WAN too if it runs dd-wrt
<Azelphur> but when you stick 10 people on a Â£20 netgear you have a problem
<Azelphur> fun
<ali12341> router troubles from multiple users are caused by nat conntracking
<Azelphur> no, they are caused by load :p
<ali12341> which won't be a problem for half bridge, cos the modem won't see the nat
<ali12341> no, really
<ali12341> for a modem there is no difference between 1 http download saturating the pipe and lots of connections doing same
<ali12341> because everything is encapsulated in ppp packets before it hits the modem
<AlanBell> night night all
<Azelphur> ali12341: and now you understand why my setup is the way it is :D
<Azelphur> one high powered router to take the load
<Azelphur> and a modem.
<ali12341> a modem which does nothing...
<Azelphur> exactly
<Azelphur> apart from provide the ADSL bridge
<ali12341> and could just as easily be in the router
<AlanBell>   /43
<AlanBell> nah, didn't mean that
 * AlanBell is too drunk to operate IRC
<Azelphur> ali12341: yea, but there arn't many decent ADSL routers, and as I said I wanted the portability to cable/wimax when it comes available in my area
<ali12341> wrt610 isn't even that powerful, it's bcm4718
 * hamitron recommends a proper comp as a router
<ali12341> heh, you can over clock it
<Azelphur> hamitron: I did that for a while but opted for something lower power
<hamitron> atom?
<Azelphur> it's pretty good for my house, it stays stable all the time :D
<Azelphur> so yea now we've come to the conclusion my setup is somewhat sane xD
<Azelphur> decent ADSL2+ Modems for the job?
<ali12341> i disagree but w/e
<Azelphur> ali12341: how would you do it?
<ali12341> and i still think you should just fix it all with DNS
<ali12341> i would get the cheapest dsl router on ebay that can run openwrt
<ali12341> i wouldn't expect to pay more than Â£1
<ali12341> but my internet can't go faster than 10mbit
<ali12341> if i were you i would fix it in DNS with what i already had
<Azelphur> ali12341: I could fix it up yea but I just don't like the sky router any more, the fact that they are messing with my web traffic makes me wonder what else they are messing with so I'd prefer to be on legit equipment :P
<Azelphur> they violated my trust >:(
<ali12341> it's a simple DNS trick they use
<ali12341> if internet connection is down all hostnames resolve to the sky router
<Azelphur> I get that :)
<hamitron> so just a few DNS tweaks and something to set your dynamic dns service, jobs a good one?
<ali12341> pretty much
<ali12341> i would also firewall off their router incase there are backdoors or something
<hamitron> i'd guess the dd-wrt already is
<Azelphur> ali12341: or I could just get an ADSL2+ modem and not worry about it because it'd be gone :D
<hamitron> Azelphur: apart from teh cost, you'd have to wait
<ali12341> although if they want to mess with your traffic they will do it in their datacentre, not in the router
<hamitron> not worth it :)
<ali12341> if you don't trust their router how can you trust any part of their service?
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ali12341> i just think if you buy a modem you'll end up with a different but equally annoying set of problems
<ali12341> better the devil you know
<hamitron> about the dns pointing to the router ali12341.....
<hamitron> the internal ip of the router?
<ali12341> how about it?
<ali12341> yes
<hamitron> so how do you then move the traffic from the router to a comp on the internal network?
<ali12341> the nat does it
<ali12341> because you can turn on reflection
<ali12341> you don't point it to the internal ip
<ali12341> you point it to the external ip
<hamitron> ah, reflection is an option in linux?
<ali12341> which is also internal on the next level of nat
<hamitron> assume it is enabled similar to packet forwarding?
<ali12341> no
<ali12341> it's just about how you set up the firewall rules
<hamitron> oh, so an arguement to iptables?
<ali12341> no
<ali12341> it's not an option
<ali12341> it's a side effect of the whole way your firewall is configured
<daftykins> sleeps for me
<daftykins> later all o/
<hamitron> ok
<hamitron> mine doesn't
<hamitron> :/
<ali12341> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/rdr.html
<ali12341> also, split-horizon dns
<hamitron> I've used Split-Horizon and Seperate network
<ali12341> i am assuming that dd-wrt supports reflection by default and that it worked before with the old modem
<hamitron> so reflection is RDR-TO and NAT-TO Combination?
<ali12341> if you;re using pf
<hamitron> sounds hard to config
<ali12341> linux uses netfilter
<hamitron> so how would RDR-TO and NAT-TO Combination be done?
<hamitron> or anything with redirecting traffic
<ali12341> on iptables you would do something like this: http://www.zeroshell.net/eng/forum/viewtopic.php?p=655&sid=1aa52f098f1a0aeccd712827ee7739d9#655
<ali12341> prerouting vs postrouting
<hamitron> I'll have to give it another go sometime
<hamitron> I tried this about 7 years ago and never got it working
<hamitron> so just changed the dns
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> didn't have the time to play
<ali12341> changing the dns is prefered
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> but I wanted to learn iptables
<ali12341> stuffing all LAN packets through a cheap router won't end well
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> well
<hamitron> it will be a dell server
<hamitron> I don't even rate my wrt54GL tbh
<hamitron> I switched to it from a proper comp with 4 NIC, and the comp was loads better
<ali12341> in what way?
<hamitron> I find when i have friends round, can get lag spikes
<hamitron> unless i am careful with the simultanious connections
<hamitron> but suppose I maybe expect too much
<hamitron> :)
<ali12341> i've never had problems
<hamitron> but for sure the 2.53ghz celeron beat the 200mhz router
<hamitron> it handles 12 users ok if I stop the torrent server
<ali12341> torrents are heavy on the router
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> torrents + 12 gamers = death
<ali12341> 12 users will just be plain heavy on the bandwidth but the router should have no problems
<hamitron> unless I have a full blown comp on the job
<hamitron> ali12341: it gets upto 4000 connections
<hamitron> :/
<Azelphur> ali12341: I had a modem before
<Azelphur> and I was 100% fine with it
<Azelphur> but when I switched to sky my dad took the modem xD
<Azelphur> so buying a new modem restores me to my old 100% working setup
<hamitron> as it happens, the VIA C3 850mhz cpu comp was my router for a while too :)
<hamitron> it was better than the wrt54gl
<ali12341> with torrents, you need ram, not cpu
<ali12341> because it opens so many connections
<hamitron> well, suppose they had 256mb ram
<ali12341> it fills the conntrack tables up
<Azelphur> ali12341: yea, my router has shitloads of ram :D
<hamitron> better than the router
<ali12341> you can also tweak the kernel settings
<Azelphur> It's a high spec router, we have multiple P2P users in the house :D
<hamitron> wrt54gl has 32mb?
<ali12341> some routers are configured to remember connections for 2 days after they close
<ali12341> that's completely unnecessary
<Azelphur> indeed XD
<Azelphur> so back to my original idea does anyone know a nice ADSL2+ Modem? :D
<shauno> Azelphur: when's the last time you had a problem where the real answer wasn't just "get your own place"  :p
<Azelphur> I know it will work how I want because it worked how I want for the past 3 odd years with my old ISP XD
<Azelphur> shauno: a long time :-(
<hamitron> ali12341: is 3600 seconds too long for tcp?
<ali12341> if the tables are filling up then probably
<hamitron> they aren't now tbh, but they have in the past
<ali12341> wrt54gl has only 16mb?
<hamitron> says so
<hamitron> max connections is 4096 anyway
<hamitron> 23 days since the last long power cut
<hamitron> should be getting another sometime soon ;/
<hamitron> UPS is on its last legs too
<hamitron> nn all o/
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> what is unity in 11.04 ?
<kaushal> is it a desktop ?
<ball> Met a couple of Linux users at work today.
<ball> That made me happy.
 * ball wanders off in search of a cake.
<shauno> cake \o/
<MartijnVdS> cake = lie :(
<shauno> noooo
<shauno> heh, so I said that and my modem dropped.  spooky
<MartijnVdS> the internet is trying to tell you something
<shauno> glados is coming :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.aperturescience.com/glados@home/
<shauno> trying to figure out how to stuff input into a running screen session.  it's fighting back :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: screen -r ?
<shauno> trying to do so from another script, so attaching it doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> have the thing inside screen listen on a named pipe, write to that
<MartijnVdS> mknod \o
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<shauno> tried that (mkfifo :p).  java appears to fail entirely on it
<MartijnVdS> Well THERE's your problem :P
<shauno> I know :/
<shauno> minecrack strikes again
<MartijnVdS> maybe tmux can do it?
 * ball falls overf
<shauno> well, getting somewhere finally.  ugly, ugly bash script but should stop me doing the same things over 'n over
<shauno> you know you're making a mess when a script starts with: while getopts ":rsSpfbmaoOh" ...
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is gnome3 available in 11.04 ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: Try entering that exact question in google, then hit "I'm feeling lucky"
<kaushal> sure
<kaushal> thanks MartijnVdS
<shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/594753/  maybe the most productive thing I'll do at work all day
<shauno> I'm almost proud of how ugly that is :)
<kaushal> gammu --config usb1  --identify Error opening device, you don't have permissions.
<kaushal> Any clue ?
<Myrtti> what phone are you trying to connect kaushal?
<kaushal> Myrtti: please give me a moment
<AlanBell> ugh. Morning all
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: HI ALAN HOW WAS THE BEER?
<MartijnVdS> hm record store day
<AlanBell> my head hurts
 * MartijnVdS gives AlanBell some strong tea
<shauno> tea?  protip: you're doing it wrong
<MartijnVdS> shauno: nothing wrong with some good strong tea
<shauno> kinda less than useful for the head :)
<AlanBell> quiz night tonight
<MartijnVdS> why? it's water..
<shauno> you don't rehydrate your brain with polite little sips of tea.  you guzzle water while you (or preferably, someone else) fix up a decent fried breakky
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ah.. I forgot y'all are British and drink tea in little sips :P
<shauno> heh.  I actually perfected this in ireland.  it's basically an entire nation of functional alcoholics.  very educational :)
<czajkowski> lol
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> AlanBell: rookie mistake, grab a can of coke first thing in the morning sorts you out
<gordonjcp> shauno: Irn Bru, preferably a little warm and flat
<gordonjcp> goes down quicker that way
<shauno> I haven't seen irn bru here :/
<gordonjcp> aww
<gordonjcp> I guess coke would work, but it doesn't have enough caffeine
<shauno> I did find it in the states, but severely underestimated what shipping would be on 24 glass bottles.  only made that mistake once
<damian> and here is me with my 1st coffee of the day and its a decaf
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<damian> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning damian
<AlanBell> czajkowski: did the boy make it home?
 * brobostigon really needs to setup mumble again ready for tonight,
 * AlanBell connects to mumble
<MartijnVdS> I really need to go out and buy a proper headset
<MartijnVdS> You know what.. I'm going to do that NOW :)
<AlanBell> yeah, cheap one will do just fine
<MartijnVdS> atm I have none
 * danfish has to go to a "dinner party" tonight. Dreadful concept :(
<shauno> headset is pretty much mandatory here, thanks to someone's bright idea of sticking the microphone 1" away from the fans in what's a rather hot laptop :/
<danfish> morning all
<MartijnVdS> danfish: feign illness
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah I have the same problem.. also, even on the lowest volume setting the mic picks up sound from the speakears
<danfish> MartijnVdS: I won't need to tomorrow - the cook tonight is dreadful
<brobostigon> good morning danfish
<MartijnVdS> danfish: oh you're cooking?
<MartijnVdS> :P
<danfish> haha - no, my mother in law
<jonsaint> hi all. anyone about to help
<danfish> the only consolation is I'm taking round their laptop refurbished with ubuntu :)
<danfish> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
<jonsaint> ok. i got a no entry sign at the top of my screen and the update manager wont update. i dont know whats wrong with it.
<danfish> jonsaint: lots of people around in various states of hangover :)
<danfish> is there an error message?
<brobostigon> jonsaint: does updating manually with "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" still work?
<jonsaint> il try it
<jonsaint> e: encountered a section with no package: header
<jonsaint> then it says something about a problem with ergelist
<brobostigon> !info ergelist
<lubotu3> Package ergelist does not exist in maverick
<brobostigon> !info ergelist natty
<lubotu3> Package ergelist does not exist in natty
<jonsaint> so what does this mean??
<shauno> most likely mergelist, which is internal to dpkg
<jonsaint> everything was working fine then all of a sudden it happened
<shauno> would it be possible to paste the entire output of 'sudo apt-get update' onto pastebin?  the mergelist message isn't the fault, it's a symptom.
<shauno> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<jonsaint> how do i do this?? im a fairly new user to ubuntu
<shauno> if you open paste.ubuntu.com, it'll give you a big textbox to paste into it.  just copy & paste, and hit submit
<shauno> it'll just let us read the entire error message
<jonsaint> ok ive done it
<shauno> okay, now give us the address of the new page it sent you to so we can see it :)
<jonsaint> the http bit?
<shauno> ah, no worries, I found http://paste.ubuntu.com/594774/
<jonsaint> thats it
<shauno> hm, I thought there'd be more there :/
<jonsaint> thats all there was when i clicked on the no entry sign
<danfish> ah, knackered merge list
<shauno> yeah.  I was expecting to see it complain about junk / invalid characters at line such & such
<danfish> try sudo rm /var/lib/apt/lists/* -vf then sudo apt-get update
<jonsaint> 1 sec then
<jonsaint> woo hoo! superb!
<jonsaint> guys i dont know how to thank you enough! it worked.
<danfish> :)
<jonsaint> well im outta here. im in the middle of moving house lol
<danfish> \o
<shauno> heh, I didn't know these things were safe to nuke.  thanks for stepping in before I went digging to see why it didn't like it :)
<danfish> the nuclear option is sometimes the only option ;)
<danfish> (unless your in a earthquake zone) <--- ?too topical
<damian>  Ive got really slow uploads 300-400mins from 64bit Ubuntu 10.10 to youtube, yet the same video on Win7 flies up 80mins. Any ideas?
<DJones> Don't you just love it when your wife says can you install ubuntu on her new laptop, she hates Windows :)
<shauno> no idea mine has a macbook ;)
<shauno> (add commas to taste)
<DJones> Heh, mine got put off windows a couple of years ago and she used ubuntu on her old laptop for a couple of years, now she's got a new one, she's spent a week with win 7 and hates it
<shauno> surveying my train station to see what impact next minecraft patch will have.  I think I'm getting off almost scott-free
<Myrtti> well, that was productive
 * brobostigon blames gpulockup/hang on flash
<Pendulum> hiya
<brobostigon> good afternoon Pendulum
<brobostigon> hmm, russell howards good news,clashes with the quiz, :(
<kvarley> brobostigon: iPlayer
<brobostigon> kvarley: yes, only solution.
<MartijnVdS> What time is the quiz again?
<brobostigon> 21:00
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: your time or mine ;)
<brobostigon> i think.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: mine.
<brobostigon> anyone around to help me test mumble, and get it set right, please.
<HazRPG> \o
<brobostigon> good fternoon HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm?
<Pendulum> i can be in about 30 seconds
<HazRPG> brobostigon: whats up with mumble?
<Pendulum> brobostigon: ^^
<Pendulum> HazRPG: I think he's talking about his own set up
<HazRPG> brobostigon: also, good afternoon :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i just cant get the sound setup right.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: oh
<HazRPG> Pendulum: indeed
<HazRPG> brobostigon: does things just sound wrong, or not the right levels?
<HazRPG> brobostigon: or own server?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i am using the server we used for the globaljam, and i cant seem to get the voice detection settings right,
<HazRPG> brb a second, just going to move back to my office/computer room (only just woke up and hopped onto laptop to see whats up :))
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah ok, gimmie a moment to run downstairs :)
 * HazRPG presses F6
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, :)
<Pendulum> brobostigon: I'll also be on in a sec
<brobostigon> Pendulum: ok, :)
<HazRPG> man I love ssh/irssi/vps :D
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> how I lived without, I have NO IDEA!
<HazRPG> brobostigon: right, mumble...
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<MartijnVdS> \o HazRPG
<popey> $MORNING
<brobostigon> hangover central popey ?
<popey> not really, no
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> just nice lie in :)
<danfish> lucky sod :)
<Pendulum> has anyone seen AlanBell this morning? he'd be another on my candidates for hangover today
<Pendulum> s/this morning/today
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/html5
<HazRPG> brobostigon: new commodore: http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx
<HazRPG> woah no way! The new commodores come with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS!!!
<AlanBell> hi Pendulum
<Pendulum> AlanBell: how's your head?
<AlanBell> fineish
<AlanBell> now
<Romeo_> Hi guys have a quick question regarding linux/ubuntu, is it true that your isp cant be tracked? what im asking is can my isp see what im doing? i dont have nothing to hide but i dont like the idea of being tracked, i know they can track you with windows but someone told me that you cant get tracked on linux not sure if its true
<Romeo_> #ubuntu
<AlanBell> Romeo_: your ISP isn't interested
<Romeo_> thanx but that doesnt answer my question :)
<AlanBell> doesn't make much difference what operating system you are using, if you want things to be secure use encryption such as a VPN or tor
<HazRPG> brobostigon: straight from dropbox wiki about headless: http://wiki.dropbox.com/TipsAndTricks/TextBasedLinuxInstall
<Romeo_> how do i use vpn encrytion?
<AlanBell> !vpn
<lubotu3> For more information on vpn please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VPN
<AlanBell> it creates a secure tunnel between where you are and somewhere else
<AlanBell> you need to have the "somewhere else" bit arranged somehow
<AlanBell> to an extent that just moves the problem as you can be tracked from the other end
<AlanBell> but it does allow you to be in an insecure network such as a conference wireless, and VPN to home, and to all intents and purposes you will appear to be at home
<AlanBell> !tor
<lubotu3> Tor is a program to route connections through several servers for anonymity. It is not in Ubuntu's repositories. For setup info, see option (2) of https://www.torproject.org/docs/debian.html.en | To use Tor on freenode, see !tor-sasl
<AlanBell> tor is how to do anonymity properly
<AlanBell> personally I can't be bothered
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, everything sound like they're talking in alien :S
<HazRPG> hang on closing mumble
<HazRPG> brobostigon: back in now
<HazRPG> think its fixed :D
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon has garlic sausage sandwiches and ginger beer.
<HazRPG> \o/
<brobostigon> oh, and sausage rolls,
<brobostigon> :)
<HazRPG> nom
<HazRPG> aww, everyone's mute/deafened on mumble... did I scare everyone off?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: with your northernness, you mean? :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: apparently!
<MartijnVdS> (I'll always remember "Lots of planets have a North!" :))
<HazRPG> heh who said that :P?
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i just dont want everyone to hear my munching
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: some Doctor :)
<dutchie> ooh, that's tonight, isn't it
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: next week
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :P
<HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, that makes sense
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: Eurovision song contest is tonight
<dutchie> MartijnVdS: i meant the ubuntu-uk quiz, not dr who
<dutchie> :)
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: ah
<dutchie> the mumble chatter reminded me
 * MartijnVdS needs to set up mutter again on the laptop
<Myrtti> queue queue queue queue
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> meep meep
<MartijnVdS> go go gadget?
 * HazRPG wonders if the newest version of chrome tackles the flash problem...
 * HazRPG along with the "I don't think I'm default" issue from the previous update
<MartijnVdS> hmm... micro-sdhc 32GB is cheap
<MartijnVdS> and I'm running out of space on the 8G in my phone :|
<HazRPG> :o
<HazRPG> music + pics?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: music mostly, but some photos as well
<HazRPG> shock horror flash still doesn't understand how to do fullscreen
<HazRPG> although seems the "haha I'm dumb and don't know I'm default" issue has been fixed \o/
<MartijnVdS> Full screen works fine in chromium for me
<MartijnVdS> on intel
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: bah
<MartijnVdS> *\o/* intel
<HazRPG> nvidia for teh lose :(
<HazRPG> (again!)
 * MartijnVdS stopped buying nvidia ages ago
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: does intel release their code???
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: intel is all-open
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I technically did, this is just the same graphics card from like... erm... ancient times lol (8800GTS)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Wow.. weren't those carved from rocks? :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Then why does their audio drives suck :P? (Too many connections!) according to ubuntu
<HazRPG> drivers*
<MartijnVdS> Intel HDA? That's probably the codec chip that's badly supported
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: tis :(
<MartijnVdS> that was fixed on my laptop somewhere between maverick and natty
<HazRPG> every so often, sounds turn "alien" on this PC
<MartijnVdS> no no no, every so often, you turn human :P
<HazRPG> :P
<KrimZon> does anyone know how to set up an ubuntu server to route between two networks on different interfaces?
<hamitron> !forwarding
<hamitron> !routing
<hamitron> grrrr
<KrimZon> I feel I'm missing a checklist of things - it was working and I changed other stuff and it broke
<AlanBell> you need to flip a flag in /proc somewhere
<KrimZon> I did that
<AlanBell> the ipv4forward thing?
<KrimZon> I get Destination Net Unreachable from my ISP rather than the router
<KrimZon> yeah
<hamitron> got the routes setup?
<KrimZon> I think that's what I don't have set up, and don't know where to set them up so that they'll stick
<KrimZon> or where they were set up originally
<hamitron> oh, do you need NAT?
<KrimZon> ahh, the routes are present but don't have a gateway specified
<KrimZon> I tried setting the gateway lines in /etc/network/interfaces to the router's IP, but that doesn't seem to work
<hamitron> so you have a router performing NAT, then a linux router you are trying to setup behind that?
<KrimZon> no nat
<KrimZon> oh, yes, the router is performing nat but that's not the one I'm concerned with
<KrimZon> it's what you asked if it was
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> I was just confirming you have some form of NAT to get to the WW
<hamitron> WWW*
<hamitron> :)
<KrimZon> it's basically ISP - NAT - Network 1 - Ubuntu Server - Network 2
<Azelphur> Hmm, Apparently last night I kept on reconnecting due to excess flood :(
<hamitron> the computers on network 1 need 2 gateways
<KrimZon> network 2 is what I can't ping into or out from
<hamitron> to know where to send packets to get back to network 2
<KrimZon> how do I set that up?
<hamitron> erm, iirc, route
<damian> Anyone know why uploads to Youtube are so slow on Ubuntu compared to Windows 7?
<KrimZon> on the ubuntu server?
<Azelphur> on freenode I'm on too many channels when I connect I get excess flooded haha
<KrimZon> and does route last between reboots and networking restarts?
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> !route
<hamitron> there must be something on this
<hamitron> !router
<HazRPG> ooo crap... I has meeting in like half hr!
 * HazRPG rushes around like a loony to get the place sorted out
<hamitron> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-add-permanent-static-routes-in-ubuntu.html
<czajkowski> Aloha
<KrimZon> ahh, thanks :)
<czajkowski> popey: fun night ?
<hamitron> krimzon, 3 network cards are easier to config
<hamitron> imo
<KrimZon> yeah, they can just be bridged and it'd just be one big network
<hamitron> you can have a dedicated forward facing NIC
<hamitron> so the 2 networks behind just need the default gateway
<hamitron> then can NAT on outgoing for the forwarding facing
<hamitron> forward facing NIC I mean
<hamitron> krimzon, I think this is a better source to use for reference http://www.linuxhomenetworking.com/wiki/index.php/Quick_HOWTO_:_Ch03_:_Linux_Networking#How_to_Configure_Two_Gateways
<KrimZon> hmm, my router appears to have vanished following being given some routing information
<hamitron> it isn't the router or ubuntu server you will need to play with
<hamitron> you will feel like headbutting a wall for a while, but it is rewarding once done
<KrimZon> oh, I know
<KrimZon> I must've set everything's gateway to the router
<KrimZon> they never properly explain that sort of thing
<KrimZon> so I'm left wondering what's meant to point to what
<hamitron> that last page I gave is a wall of text and knowledge
<hamitron> sorta wish i had had that when i was trying this
<hamitron> my networking book doesn't explain as fully, to save space
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> 1 down....
<hamitron> ;)
<KrimZon> that was the server
<KrimZon> it just stopped responding
<hamitron> :/
<KrimZon> so, if I don't put this on the server, how do I get it to all the clients?
<KrimZon> I should just go out to B&Q and fit some ethernet sockets
<KrimZon> then my server can go downstairs next to the router
<hamitron> or could fit another network card
<hamitron> tbh, it can be done
<hamitron> without all that
<hamitron> just need to keep reading and build on that knowledge
<hamitron> I was lazy and fitted more network cards
<KrimZon> network cards won't help me, cause the server has to be away from the phone socket
<hamitron> what? you don't give up all cosmetic considerations for your computers? :-o ;)
<KrimZon> I don't want a wire trailing freely down the stairs, and can't be bothered oking it with the landlord to fit it properly
<KrimZon> anyway, it still seems like I'm missing some information, cause it froze again
<KrimZon> it's like "give *something* a network, a mask, a gateway and an interface
<KrimZon> except that routing always involves more than one of those, and more than one possible something
<KrimZon> hmm, looks like I need to reset another router
<dutchie> hmm
<dutchie> oh, actually
<dutchie> no point filing a bug on "legacy" gnome2 interface
<dutchie> :(
<hamitron> why?
<hamitron> gnome2 <3 ;)
<dutchie> well it's going away isn't it
<dutchie> unlikely to get fixed
<hamitron> :/
<dutchie> and it was only a minor thihg
<hamitron> I'll be using gnome2 for at least another 18 months
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> waiting for ubuntu 12.04 to be released and major bugs be fixed
<hamitron> :D
<KrimZon> I'm waiting for the cpu to idle near zero in kde
<hamitron> KrimZon: I think I may have to setup what you are doing for fun
<KrimZon> stupid O2 box!
<hamitron> :/
<KrimZon> I changed its IP address and now it's got lost
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> is there a way to use Outlook 2007 Calendar in lightning ?
<hamitron> afternoon
<kaushal> I am using Thunderbird
<KrimZon> hamitron: will you also swear at an o2 box?
<kaushal> on 10.10
<hamitron> KrimZon: you'd never see me swear.... ;)
<KrimZon> oh wait, it's the other router that's the gateway - that might have the routes in
<hamitron> but I am too lazy to move and change cabling, so gonna have to use vmware
<KrimZon> yay, that works
<exobuzz> oh dear :/ http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/
<hamitron> kaushal: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/faq.html#outlook
<KrimZon> I'm skeptical about unity
<hamitron> exobuzz: it would be 6 out of 12 if I tried
<hamitron> ;)
<exobuzz> the email it links to has a lot of other detail that to me doesn't read well for usability
<KrimZon> mostly because it's meant to be simpler but apps now minimize to a bunch of different places depending on their type
<exobuzz> im going to switch to unity now to test it since its been a week or so
<KrimZon> I ought to try it again just in case
<hamitron> i just refuse to accept change
<hamitron> so no point at this stage
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> I'm good till 2013
<hamitron> and I'm told the world will end before then
<hamitron> or something major is gonna happen
<exobuzz> ok. so here's one thing - what use are icons this size on a non touchscreen desktop http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity.png
<exobuzz> the search box, too is massive - i know i have bad eyesight but not that bad ;-)
<KrimZon> yeah, it's kind of annoying the amount of empty space there is
<exobuzz> i can see how the ubuntu software centre was mistaken for the recycle bin or something too
<KrimZon> it feels like there's no definite boundary between places
<exobuzz> (in the tests)
<DJones> They are a bit big, I've been wondering if there is a way of getting smaller icons myself
<exobuzz> you can make the unity icons on the dock smaller, but not these ones it seems
<DJones> Not so much for the shortcuts icons, but for the left menu bar
<exobuzz> i dont actually wanta  full screen of icons. on my joggler yes, on this desktop no
<exobuzz> i nkow i only ever b*tch about unity on this channel too. sorry but
<exobuzz> heh
<DJones> exobuzz: Have you gpt a link for how to change the icon size in the dock?
<exobuzz> DJones, install compiz settings manager and you can do it from the unity prefs there
<ali12341> krimzon it's supposed to feel like that, it's all supposed to be unified and integrated
<DJones> exobuzz: Thanks I'll give that a go
<exobuzz> if i click top left, and get the search/shortcuts up, then full screen it, then click the top left it goes. when opened its not full screen
<hamitron> krimzon, lookup "option static-routes" for the dhcpd server
<exobuzz> cant even remember my last setting ?
<exobuzz> if you click "more apps", that window is more useful than the shortcuts etc that first appears.
<AlanBell> !info blueproximity
<lubotu3> blueproximity (source: blueproximity): locks/unlocks your desktop tracking a bluetooth device. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.5-5 (maverick), package size 290 kB, installed size 968 kB
<KrimZon> hmm
<KrimZon> maybe it would be a good idea to use the ubuntu server for dhcp, to keep it all centralized
<hamitron> krimzon, yeh
<hamitron> at the very least you will need to serve dhcpd to the network not connected to the router
<hamitron> also, dhcpd on your router may be limited
<awilkins> /me is migrating South for the bunny festival
<exobuzz> could someone else here using unity on natty, tell me whether gnome assistive technologies "simulate second click" is working at all ?
<exobuzz> i mean please could ;-)
<exobuzz> doesn't work here, and I wanted to check if it is just me.
<ali12341> how do i test it?
<exobuzz> not even to do a second click on the desktop.
<awilkins> So - royal wedding, tedious pile of rubbish, or shameful waste of money?
<exobuzz> ali12341, load "assistive technologies" from unity, enable it and click "mouse accessibiliy" and enable simulate second click. should be that holding down left mouse "fills" the mouse pointer and then does a right mouse click
<gord> awilkins, extra day off
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes, and ##politics-uk is that way -->
<awilkins> Unity crashes too much for me, I'm forced to admit.
<gord> when did you last try unity?
<MartijnVdS> last week
<gord> there really aren't many crashers left
<exobuzz> if simulated second click isnt fgoing to work, then unity is going to be useless on the joggler or other single click touchscreens :(
<awilkins> Beta on a live thumb on wednesday
<ali12341> exobuzz: doesn't work for me
<MartijnVdS> gord: does crash-and-autorestart count as a crash? :)
<gord> and you filed your bugs?
<ali12341> exobuzz: my install is a bit out of date though
<gord> right now we are fixing crashers faster than they come in
<exobuzz> ali12341, looks like they overlooked accessibility or its a known thing. i reported it anyway..
<ali12341> bug number?
<ali12341> i will update and confirm it
<exobuzz> im sure anyone who relies on this for operating their pc aint going to be happy.
<awilkins> OTOH, it's nice on my daughter netbook
<exobuzz> ali12341, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/762806
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 762806 in unity "simulated second click with unity" [Undecided,New]
<gord> accessibility wasn't overlooked, its just that accessibility is *huge* - hard to get it all done in six months
<awilkins> This was weird display config - one dispaly on VGA, one on a VGA/displayport adaptor
<ali12341> setting yourself an impossible time limit for a project sounds a little bit like overlooking to me
<awilkins> Displayport adaptor on started working right and supporting all resolutions non-manually in last 2 months after kernel update
<Pendulum> gord: IMO what was overlooked is that by saying it's okay for a default to be inaccessible (I know there's another option, but Unity is the default) says that users who need accessibility are 2nd class citizens. Which is not Unity developer's fault
<exobuzz> gord, so, natty and unity just wont work then on single click touchscreens ?
<ali12341> unity is fail on touchscreens because of hiding menus
<awilkins> Before has to enable modes with xrandr
<hamitron> unity is just fail ;)
<ali12341> but that's by design so good luck getting it "fixed"
<Pendulum> exobuzz: I've got a bug report where Mark comments that it's not meant for touchscreens (or that they're not within the target market or something similar)
<awilkins> Bah, crapulous typing on phone keyboard
<gord> sigh *goes and does other things*
<exobuzz> Pendulum, interesting since the "look" is way off for a desktop machine imho. looks like touchscreen, but doesnt work on touchscreen. interesting one ;-)
<ali12341> interesting is a nice way of putting it
<awilkins> I definitely like the increase is screen estate on a netbook.
<exobuzz> gord, are you a unity dev ?
<Pendulum> exobuzz: that's my thought as well
<hamitron> tbh, nothing wrong with inventing new things.... they just don't always work as expected....
<exobuzz> Pendulum, got a link to the bug report where that is mentioned. id be interested in reading it
<Pendulum> bug 739812
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 739812 in unity (Ubuntu Natty) "Must use hardware keyboard to perform search for applications in Unity" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/739812
<exobuzz> i want unity to be good and i want to like it. I just think some things are not how they should be, but it also feels that when it comes to ubuntu user experience, the users are the last to get any say :)
<Pendulum> it's also where he mentions that Classic won't be around to fallback to in Oneiric
<Pendulum> (which pretty much knocks me out of using Ubuntu)
<andrew_> Anyone familiar with LDAP?
<exobuzz> removing classic is worrying, especially if it's another 6 month slow that won;t be enough
<Pendulum> (but that's because 2D Unity doesn't have a11y and I can't run 3D)
<exobuzz> (enough to fix up any issues)
<exobuzz> Mark Shuttleworth Why is this critical, Brian? - its pretty critical if you dont have a keyboard ;-)
<exobuzz> but ok. high importance anyway
<chambers> I need to reset my olcRootPw but it's not working and wondered if anyone had any experience with it?
<DJones> exobuzz: Thanks for that hint on resizing the icons, worked perfectly
<exobuzz> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility first paragraph went out the window for natty then
<exobuzz> DJones, did you make em smaller or bigger ? :)
<hamitron> !grub2
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<hamitron> I should bookmark this ;/
<KrimZon> oh, I remember why I haven't tried unity much - doesn't work in virtualbox
<exobuzz> KrimZon, i think it worked when i enabled 3d acceleration. unity 2d should work.
<exobuzz> (as much as unity does work) ;-)
 * TheOpenSourcerer gets excited by the prospect of building an OpenStack cloud architecture inside a VirtualBox VM. https://uksysadmin.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/running-openstack-under-virtualbox-a-complete-guide/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is that really sad?
<KrimZon> I just got a message and gnome 2 so I deleted it
<exobuzz> TheOpenSourcerer, useful for testing i guess? :)
<AlanBell> yo dawg, we heard you liked VMs
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hi AlanBell how are you today?
<AlanBell> great
<TheOpenSourcerer> gosh.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm OK now. Was a tad worse for wear this morning though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will hope to be around for the quiz later but we are all going to the Bat & Ball this evening for dinner...
<AlanBell> yeah, tbh this morning was a bit of a writeoff for me too
<AlanBell> KrimZon: it totally does work in virtualbox
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] OggCamp11  It sold out already! - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/16/oggcamp11-it-sold-out-already/
<kazade_> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o
<KrimZon> AlanBell: I enabled 3D acceleration and gave it 64MB
<AlanBell> install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 in the guest
<AlanBell> then it will work
<KrimZon> ahh
<AlanBell> do not mess about with any other guest additions stuff
<Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: sign of a good night, I hope :)
<Pendulum> AlanBell: you know that when we connect to the ubuntu uk mumble it moves us all into the Global Jam room, right?
<brobostigon> how does beef chilli sound for tea?
<Pendulum> brobostigon: yum
<Pendulum> ooh... maybe I'll get curry today!
<brobostigon> Pendulum: i am making my own, i am going to leave it for a while cooking, longer the better i think,
<Pendulum> brobostigon: that's even better :)
<Pendulum> chili is often better the next day :)
<brobostigon> i need to start making it then, otherwise it wont be redy before te quiz.
<AlanBell> Pendulum: yes
<AlanBell> I should rename that room really
 * brobostigon goes to cook, beer in hand,
<DJones> exobuzz: I made them a little bit smaller
<nperry> !mumble
<nperry> Hmm, whats the server?
<AlanBell> mumble.libertus.co.uk
<AlanBell> !info mumble
<lubotu3> mumble (source: mumble): Low latency VoIP client. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.2-4ubuntu0.1 (maverick), package size 2161 kB, installed size 4064 kB
<nperry> I can, haven't got my mic at the moment :)
<AlanBell> great
 * shauno needs to find somewhere appropriate to scream about XP :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: /dev/null
<shauno> I need to find a bigger sticks for apps that you've already tried to kill, but still won't go away.  sigh.
<dwatkins> Hooray for Ubuntu and getdeb, which allowed me to install Fuppes to stream media to my PS3 :D
<MartijnVdS> fuppes?
 * MartijnVdS uses the synology built-in media streaming bit
<dwatkins> not tried that, but I wanted to test out fuppes before I get a Drobo and run it on there.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ask popey about drobo :)
<nperry> AlanBell: Not sure what I've done [17:24] Connecting to server mumble.libertus.co.uk.
<dwatkins> oh?
<nperry> [17:24] Server connection failed: The remote host closed the connection.
<iceflatline> I use fuppes with freenas and my xbox - works great.
<dwatkins> I used to use Fuppes with my Xbox 360 before its hardware died :-/
<iceflatline> right. that hasn't been very reliable for me either.
<AlanBell> nperry: seems to be working and nothing changed on the server end
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: thanks, had a look through my log for mentions from him about it, looks like he has a similar plan to me, to make an Ubuntu server which operates like a Drobo.
<nperry> AlanBell: Could be that I registered then actually setup my SSL cert :s
<matti> ;]
<AlanBell> could be
<nperry> AlanBell: Sorry, could resit 'playing'
<AlanBell> I got confused with certs too, having two users
<nperry> Are you able to delete 'nperry'?
<nperry> And I'll start again.
<AlanBell> nperry: um, possibly
<brobostigon> advice, are chinese noodles okwith chilli, it is all i have, didnt plan properly, no rice,
<brobostigon> please.
<AlanBell> it all ends up in the same place
<Pendulum> brobostigon: anything is okay with chili
<brobostigon> Pendulum: yay, :) thank you,
<Pendulum> I've done it with spaghetti, various types of noodles, potoato
<Pendulum> heck, a lot of times in the US you don't get it with anything
<brobostigon> AlanBell: good point, however i had more concern if it works properly.
<brobostigon> Pendulum: wow, ok, interesting,
<shauno> hollowed loaf is my favourite.  a bowl of chili you can walk with  :D
<Pendulum> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MartijnVdS> sounds like my neighbors are fighting again
<AlanBell> top tip: don't buy a sliced loaf to make it with
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ah, the voice of experience
<shauno> sliced bread is no fun :)
<Pendulum> well, if you're a dog in the house, the sliced bread might lead to more fun
<shauno> I tend to just avoid it alltogether.  difficult to make a proper manwich with 4mm of bread.
<AlanBell> nperry: you have been terminated
<nperry> AlanBell: And I'm back, must of been me messing around
<brobostigon> shauno: i tried super-thick sliced before, makes an amazing ham and cheese toastie,
<AlanBell> I just deleted your registered user
<nperry> I can, as earlier still haven't gone upstairs to dig my mic out.
<MartijnVdS> nperry: time to do that then :)
<Pendulum> nperry: you have 2.5 hours in which to get your mic out :P
<nperry> I've enabled push-to-talk but still registered.
<MartijnVdS> nperry: push-to-talk means it'll send voice only when you press a button.. it won't mute you
<brobostigon> quiz is 9pm yes? so i have my plans properly to not be disturbed?
<Pendulum> brobostigon: yes
<Pendulum> we are just being silly on mumble at the moment
<brobostigon> lol :)
<brobostigon> hehe
<buzz_> a quiz ?
<buzz_> irc quiz ?
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> questions and answers will be in #ubuntu-trivia
<MartijnVdS> buzz_: https://twitter.com/#!/alanbelltolc/status/59298782826860545
<AlanBell> and you can install mumble and connect to mumble.libertus.co.uk just for fun
<brobostigon> it is quite distracting listening to chaps and gals mumble, and not laughing, while cooking,
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: join us!
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: once i have eaten, i might not be easy cooking with headset on.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you'd be surprised.. :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: nor eating for that matter.
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> Unless we start shouting directions "No no.. more pepper!" in your ear
<brobostigon> lol, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's like shouting numbers when someone is trying to count :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, definatly, :)
 * brobostigon giggles atsome of the noises coming from mumble.
<MartijnVdS> what kind of noises? :)
<brobostigon> hehe, hmmm, :)
<brobostigon> like that, :)
 * brobostigon noms in beef chiili, yummy,
<brobostigon> on*
<brobostigon> the best though, is apparently, chilli a'la popey.
<brobostigon> i need a google and wikipedia irssi lookup plugin :)
<brobostigon> cheating, oh, no, definatly not, no.
<MartijnVdS> get a reddit plugin as well ;)
<brobostigon> yeah, :)
<dutchie> heh
<dutchie> just wondered what that symbol on the power button thing was
<dutchie> then i realised it was a crumb on my screen
<brobostigon> lol
<Pendulum> curry \o/
<MartijnVdS> Pendulum: curry!
<Myrtti> whee, a new toy â¥
<Myrtti> although it sucks that I can't really use it :-(
<Myrtti> stupid swype doesn't have all the characters I've got on my passwords
<brobostigon> sothe new toy is swype?
<Myrtti> the new toy is a device with a rubbish version of swype
<brobostigon> ah, i see.
<brobostigon> not hot.
<Myrtti> kinda limits the use of the device if I can't really do anything that requires my password
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: add it to the dictionary
<Myrtti> how?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I don't know, I hate swype :)
<Myrtti> how can you add a character to a dictionary if I don't have the character anywhere on the device?
<Myrtti> indeed
<brobostigon> :(
<dutchie> Myrtti: can you not use another keyboard to enter the character?
<Myrtti> I'll just flash the device with a new version of MeeGo anyway
<Myrtti> perhaps it's changed since then
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: copy/paste from a webpage ;)
<AlanBell> Myrtti: joining in the quiz later?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: is it on this channel?
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: #ubuntu-trivia
<AlanBell> and with audio via mumble
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: (and mumble)
<AlanBell> there is a rather acceptable mumble client for android as I understand it
<brobostigon> doesnt work on my dream though,crashes soon as you hit the speak button.
<Myrtti> aw
 * brobostigon shakes his fist at dropbox
<brobostigon> 40% ram use, is alittle axcesive,
<hamitron> only got 64mb brobostigon?
<hamitron> ;)
<jacobw> evening
<brobostigon> hamitron: most thing works fine, mumble is alittle too heavy,
<hamitron> not used it myself
<brobostigon> hamitron: it seems very rougharound the adges.
<brobostigon> edges*
<issyl0> Hrm.
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: what's up?
<issyl0> After Natty telling me I can't run Unity due to hardware limitations, is it now normal that on the login screen I can't see a "change session" thing, to switch to GNOME Classic as it tells me I have to?  I somehow think not.  :D
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: you get that after typing/selecting your username
<issyl0> Ohhh.
<MartijnVdS> then it pops up the "Which session/keyboard layout/language" bar
<issyl0> That would explain it.
<issyl0> Ohhh.
<issyl0> Cheers.
<MartijnVdS> *bow*
<shauno> I still can't get this via to boot :(
<shauno> this is funky so far.  I can tell brobostigon & martin.  everyone else just sounds the same
<brobostigon> shauno: i have a distinctive voice, :)
<MartijnVdS> and I'm Dutch :)
<shauno> heh.  well, yes, there is that
<brobostigon> i am only english,
<exobuzz> i was wondering why i couldnt get on irc. i had like 2 xchats already running, but no systray or so on unity. i dunno im sure its me but back to classic again heh
<MartijnVdS> just use irssi ;)
<exobuzz> pfff
<shauno> mostly just surprised how much difference 10 years outside the UK makes.  you all(*) just sound like generic southerners :p
<exobuzz> MartijnVdS, are you also a mac user ? :)
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz: No.
<brobostigon> shauno: i spent ten years as a teenager in germany.
<exobuzz> MartijnVdS, it would suit you well. you can say things like "get a mac" and not understand the concept of choice ;-)
<MartijnVdS> exobuzz: Choice? Choice? :)
<issyl0> Heh.  You won't be able to tell I spent four years in France, if and when I voice chat - unless there's any French going on.  :P
<exobuzz> or the classic "how do i do this on mysql" "get postgresql" - always like that one on forums. real helpful :)
<shauno> I'm a mac user .. by choice :p
<exobuzz> and as for ruby devs. worst ever for this sort of thing ;-)
<exobuzz> shauno, i own 3 macs. but dont tell anyone
<shauno> ooh ooh ooh I have isolinux!
<MartijnVdS> issyl0: We'll be able to tell, don't worry :)
<issyl0> Hmmm, OK.
<shauno> *cough*ing jumper select.  long time since I used anything IDE :)
<exobuzz> I was thinking to mod my ppc mac mini http://www.bit-tech.net/news/modding/2005/06/10/itoilet_mod/1
<exobuzz> :-)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: ooh jumper select.. back in the day before cable select :)
<shauno> that's the one :p
<MartijnVdS> Those were the days 8-)
<issyl0> Everyone sounds a bit different through a mic though.
<shauno> still not booting, but it made a noble effort atleast
<shauno> now stuck at "Loading bootlogo".  not sure it'll get past that, since I only appear to have EGA
<matti> Hah.
<matti> My notebook smells like Peppermint Latte from Starbucks ;]
<shauno> top right on mac
<shauno> popey: ^
<MartijnVdS> shauno: #ubuntu-trivia ;)
<shauno> I will.  having enough fun multitasking with this zombie machine
<shauno> so I need to find a bootcd that doesn't try to load a logo :/
 * shauno eyes over a 6.06 CD
<shauno> popey: iirc you have a freedom hating phone?  the headset for that should work as mic+headphones (+remote!) in your mbp, if you'd rather avoid having the mic sat on the desk
<popey> ah, good point
<popey> i have a decent mic though
<shauno> okay, 6.06 really doesn't boot.  the beeper just goes nuts
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Stone-age Ubuntu? :)
<shauno> I got it on disk, so figured it'd be worth a shot
<MartijnVdS> on bare hardware, or in a vm?
<ali12341> does any idea what this means: stop: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.261" (uid=1000 pid=26882 comm="stop) interface="com.ubuntu.Upstart0_6.Job" member="Stop" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="com.ubuntu.Upstart" (uid=0 pid=1 comm="/sbin/init"))
<MartijnVdS> I think I might have some warty CDs somewhere in a box
<shauno> hardware.  a via 800  :/
<MartijnVdS> ali12341: it's a dbus permission error..
<shauno> if I can't figure this out, I'm gonna stick potato on it and upgrade in-band.
<shauno> everything will fall to potato :D
<MartijnVdS> shauno: bo.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: or hamm
<shauno> only used potato and woody :/
<shauno> then I stopped buying debian because 14 CDs was getting silly :)
<shauno> tempted to try installing to the CF with vmware, but it's on the underside of the motherboard :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: I just used netinstall
<shauno> hm.  with no bootable media at all?
<shauno> no pci slots so I can't feed it an etherpro.  just these lil realtek fakes :/
<MartijnVdS> no with a mini-cd
<MartijnVdS> or with 2-3 floppies
<shauno> that's it .. it's not booting from CDs.  they all hang when they try to give me a splash @ isolinux
<MartijnVdS> floppies \o/
<shauno> no headers for a drive :p  (it's a 3.5" pc-104 board)
<ali12341> why VMWARE?
<shauno> because I have it, it's installed, and it doesn't mind doing raw disk access
<ali12341> remove CF card, put in reader, dd grub image...
<ali12341> why do you need vmware for this?
<shauno> because if I'm going to go to all the effort of retrieving the card, I may as well just stick an OS on it
<shauno> having everything hanging out the machine is rather unwieldy
<ali12341> ok i see
<AlanBell> quiz starting in 20 minutes or so
<ali12341> well the only other way i can see is to jtag it, if it has mini pci or something
<shauno> it's an odd shaped box.  almost exactly the same depth as my dvdrom, 19" 1U.  so everything's hanging on the outside while I install because the drive won't actually fit inside
<shauno> it has a couple of hirose connectors, and the standard pc-104 thing on the side (not actually sure what that exposes)
<ali12341> did you reflash to oem bios?
<shauno> yup
<ali12341> odd that it doesn't support cdrom then
<ali12341> wait how did you plug in a cdrom drive anyway?
<shauno> it's trying the cdrom.  I get the isolinux version header, then "loading bootlogo".  then nothing
<shauno> pull the dvdrom from an old machine, the ide cable with it so I've got a second header on the same cable
<ali12341> why can't you plug an ide hard drive instead?
<shauno> there's 1 hdd and 1 cdrom atm
<shauno> trying to install from the cdrom to the hdd
<ali12341> remove cdrom, add second hdd
<shauno> there's not space for a second hdd to live
<ali12341> you remove it after installing
<shauno> still not sure how that helps me get an OS on it :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: put disk in other machine, put OS on disk, replace disk in original machine
<ali12341> you put a distro on any random harddrive, boot it, then use deboostrap to install on the internal hd
<shauno> my other machine's a laptop
<ali12341> you don't have a usb dock?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: wrong bumper sticker ;)
<shauno> yarrr.  found a model number on the underside.  google time
<MartijnVdS> willy1977: speak to us! :)
<shauno> http://www.avalue.com.tw/products/ECM-3610.cfm
<MartijnVdS> ooh cfm, old site :)
<willy1977> I heard suprengr
<AlanBell> ok, about to get quizical in #ubuntu-trivia
<shauno> this is pretty awesome with text-to-speach
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> I didn't quite remember that Cathedral City is this salty
<Myrtti> no wonder people drink buckets of tea
<peejay1977> Hey all, anyone know of a fix for the CD boot issue for Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 2? I get a boot error straight after the initial menu but cant seem to find much on Google
<Azelphur> haha, my new sky internet is down and I just called tech support, the guy asked me about my setup and was in awe XD
<Azelphur> "What OS do you run" "Linux" "Woaa..."
<Azelphur> "I can run any OS you need though I have virtual machines"
<exobuzz> hmm. had a dkms driver keep crashing on natty. switching to gcc-4.4 from 4.5 fixed it
<exobuzz> i reckon there are going to be a lot of gcc 4.5 issues if ive already found one
<exobuzz> driver was a vendor rt2870sta wireless driver.
<exobuzz> actually it could be just related to mixing compiler for kernel/modules which you're not supposed to do . hmm. i guess i should try and build the kernel on 4.5 and see
<shauno> so back to this silly machine.  can't find my cardreader :o)
<nperry> Azelphur: I spoke to some tech support a couple of weeks ago..
<Azelphur> nperry: yea? :P
<nperry> They asked me to install windows
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> tbh that's what I was expecting, that's why I have vm's.
<Azelphur> but the guy was very nice and didn't try any of the "You're using linux /shun" stuff
<nperry> I've had BT fobb me off with "your internet doesn't work because you are using linux"
<Azelphur> he just seemed genuinely interested in how one computer could run 2 operating systems at the same time :D
<Azelphur> haha
<nperry> Well, thats what I thought he said anyway...
<Azelphur> "That must take a lot of resources, what do you have like 4GB RAM?" "haha 4GB, I have 12" "12 OMG!!! HOW DOES YOUR MOTHERBOARD EVEN TAKE THAT MUCH" "The motherboard supports up to 24" "OMG THATS INSANE"
<Azelphur> xD
<nperry> Hmmm, was the person english?
<Azelphur> yea
<nperry> As i've worked in a couple of tech support places and they are all geeks...
<Azelphur> yea he sounded pretty cool, he was eager to ask about my setup :)
<nperry> Should of told him to come on irc
<Azelphur> I nearly did but didn't wanna be weird lol
<nperry> "hey come to this chat room"
<Azelphur> exactly xD
<nperry> Yeah, would sound pretty odd.
<hamitron> grrr
<hamitron> should the idea of an online golf game, to be to play golf against others?
<awilkins> PangYa!   ?
<hamitron> maybe I am missing something, with all the people wanting to play alone
<SMG> hello, can some one help me with this, when ever i try to build binutil I get this "http://paste.ubuntu.com/594986/", how would i solve it?
<ali12341> hamitron: online golf game?
<ali12341> online version of mario golf would be awesome
<hamitron> I play shot online sometimes
<ali12341> i'm sure aimbots would ruin it though
<hamitron> it uses nProtect :(
<ali12341> does it work on linux?
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> :/
<ali12341> i kind of wish that wii wasn't backwards compatible because the price of the good gamecube games has gone up
<hamitron> this is the most fun golf game I played
<hamitron> wish it ran on wine :/
#ubuntu-uk 2011-04-17
<popey> heh, i still have two gamecubes
<directhex> if there were wii games worth buying, eprhaps people wouldn't resort to gamecube games
<popey> one UK and one switchable US/JAP
<directhex> popey: i gave one to my sister
<directhex> (wife and i both had one when we were undergrads)
<Azelphur> http://www.ibood.com/uk/en/ looks like an interesting deal for a reasonable gaming laptop o.O
<directhex> Azelphur: well nvidia so it'll render more than a dozen polygoons. crap-end nvidia, so not render then WELL... but it'll run anything on low detail, which an intel won't
<Azelphur> :)
<HazRPG> Bought my first ever song on Ubuntu One! Woo
<dutchie> was it a good one?
<HazRPG> well I like it lol
<HazRPG> dutchie: apparently ubuntu one classes it as "Alternative" but I'd say it was more pop really :/
<HazRPG> I don't think I can post the title here, for the family-orientatedness ... but its basically the single from Cee Lo Green
<dutchie> the one tastefully renamed/redubbed "forget you" for radio play
<dutchie> i would not class that as a good one
<HazRPG> like I said... I like it, but its not for everyone
<HazRPG> dutchie: what would you class as a good one?
<Azelphur> Any ADSL smart people got thoughts on that? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Static/April%202011/Screenshot.png
<Azelphur> besides "it's broke" lol
<HazRPG> what's up exactly?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: "It's broke"
<Azelphur> amber light on the modem, no connection
<HazRPG> also, that looks similar to mine you using a netgear?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: it's a sky router, I believe it's a netgear at the core xD
<HazRPG> Azelphur: indeed!
<HazRPG> also... according to that screenshot, it should technically be fine based on your noise margins and line attenuation
<HazRPG> the top half basically just there to outline what's been sent back n forth
<Azelphur> I see :)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: did you hear my story when I phoned sky tech support? XD
<HazRPG> obviously that's where the problem appears apparently because apparently your WAN hasn't sent anything
<Azelphur> fun
<HazRPG> s/appears apparently/appears apparent/*
<HazRPG> Azelphur: no don't think I did
<HazRPG> if you've got a button on your router btw, I would try click "Connection Status"
<Azelphur> HazRPG: the guy asked me what OS I run, I said "Linux" he said "Woaaaa"
<dutchie> HazRPG: my first u1ms album was rammstein :)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: we spent like 30 minutes talking about Linux, virtualization, wine and hardware while he ran line tests haha
<HazRPG> dutchie: cool, didn't realise it was on there!
<HazRPG> Azelphur: awesome :D
<HazRPG> Azelphur: wish my experiences with them were that awesome too :P
<Azelphur> HazRPG: was funny, he was only somewhat familiar with virtualization :D
<Azelphur> he asked me how it works and does it use a lot of resources
<Azelphur> and I said yea, obviously it uses more or less double because it has to run 2 operating systems at the same time
<Azelphur> "How much ram do you have like 4GB?" "haha 4GB, I have 12" "OMG 12!?! How can your motherboard take that?" "My motherboard supports 24"
<Azelphur> "OMG THATS INSANE"
<Azelphur> HazRPG: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/April%202011/Screenshot-1.png being lazy and not bothering to crop ftw
<hamitron> \o/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: hmm interesting
<HazRPG> Azelphur: can't say i've ever seen "MER/PPPoA"
<Azelphur> xD
<Tav_> Hello
<HazRPG> Azelphur: here's a thought, does your landline sound funny when you pick it up?
<Azelphur> nope
<hamitron> Azelphur: what is the problem?
<Azelphur> http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/technical-discussion/42671-new-sagemcom-router-seems-hijack-web-browsing.html#post318010
<Azelphur> have a thread :P
<Tav_> Excuse me, do you guys know how I can do general IRC chat?
<Azelphur> hamitron: ninjas stealing my internets :(
<HazRPG> Azelphur: as in, does it sound crackly, or have weird noises on it (other than the obvious dial tone)
<Azelphur> Tav_: your doing it right now?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: not that I could hear
<HazRPG> Azelphur: guessing he's on a website :P
<HazRPG> Tav_: you mean a program for your computer for IRC?
<hamitron> Tav_: you need an IRC client such as Xchat
<Azelphur> yea, qwebirc
<Azelphur> and +1 for xchat :p
<hamitron> I use pidgin
<hamitron> ;)
<Tav_> Az and Haz I mean say I want to chat about astronomy
<Azelphur> hamitron: me too
<Tav_> Is there a room for that?
<HazRPG> Azelphur: worth a test, but try dialing say the first two digits of your house and see if you can hear some background noise
<Azelphur> Tav_: highly likely, IRC tends to have something for everything.
<HazRPG> don't stay on the line too long though, your only wanting to know if there's noise or not :P
<Tav_> Az how do I get a room list?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: I did 17070 zoe test :D
<HazRPG> ah :P
<Azelphur> Tav_: I never bother with lists, I just join #subjectname and it usually exists
<Tav_> Can I use Empathy for general chat?
<Azelphur> Tav_: I just joined #astronomy, it has 90 people
<Azelphur> Tav_: yes.
<Tav_> Az is that the command?
<HazRPG> Tav_: erm, /list (as a command by itself) will give you a list of all channels
<Azelphur> Tav_: no it's the name of the channel to join, go set up empathy
<Azelphur> or pidgin, or xchat, :P
<Azelphur> HazRPG: you do know /list on this network will take a LONG time
<Azelphur> the channel list isn't small
<HazRPG> Tav_: also, you could msg the alis bot and it'll let you do searches for channels, e.g. "/msg alis LIST *astronomy*
<HazRPG> Azelphur: he yeah, i know... i've downloaded it and stored it away for reference - but when lazy i ask alis :P
<Azelphur> HazRPG: that's fancy
<Tav_> Thanks, but where do you type "join #subject" or "\list"?
<Azelphur> Tav_: in the IRC client you have yet to get
<HazRPG> Tav_: what program are you using to connect to IRC?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: he's using qwebirc, a web applet
<Azelphur> I version'd him :P
<Tav_> I am using Empathy which comes with Ubuntu
<Tav_> Where do you type it?
<HazRPG> also you need to type: /join #channel
<Azelphur> (02:43:13) Tav_: (notice) Received CTCP 'VERSION qwebirc v0.90, copyright (C) 2008-2010 Chris Porter and the qwebirc project -- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.16) Gecko/20110323 Ubuntu/10.10 (maverick) Firefox/3.6.16' (to Azelphur) from Tav_
<Azelphur> LIES :o
<HazRPG> where #channel is where you want to go
<HazRPG> Tav_: you can type that command in here if you like :PP
<hamitron> Azelphur: he is maybe just getting instruction through that client ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: maybe :p
<HazRPG> Tav_: empathy will let you type it anywhere
<HazRPG> Tav_: best thing to do is ask the alis bot :)
<HazRPG> Tav_: type: /msg alis LIST *subject*
<HazRPG> adding the * means it will look for variations of whatever you type in subject
<Tav_> I can't see where to type it though
<Tav_> Empathy has a GUI with menus
<Tav_> I can't see any command-line like interface
<HazRPG> Tav_: yeah don't worry... type while in a channel :)
<HazRPG> Tav_: the commands are global, so you can use them everywhere :)
<Tav_> How do I go "in" a channel?
<HazRPG> the command is /join #channel
<Azelphur> HazRPG: he can't, empathy has no space to type in lol
<Tav_> In the Ubuntu terminal??
<HazRPG> and you can type while your here now, try it :)
<Azelphur> that's not the way empathy works
<Tav_> So should I get another client?
<HazRPG> Tav_: no no... do it in this channel, while your in here, where your currently typing to chat to use
<Tav_> What's a good one?
<HazRPG> us*
<Azelphur> HazRPG: lol your crazy overcomplicating this XD
<Azelphur> you don't wanna teach him how to use a web client
<Tav_> join #astronomy
<Azelphur> and he doesn't need to know about alis xD
<Tav_> doesn't work :(
<HazRPG> Tav_: you MUST have the / in the front dude
<Azelphur> Tav_: did you add the freenode network to empathy?
<hamitron> lets just hope his web client is not restricted ;/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: i was just about to ask that :P
<Tav_> No
<Tav_> How do I add the freenode network to empathy?
<Azelphur> Tav_: ok, in the empathy buddies list, edit, add account
<Azelphur> Tav_: or rather, edit accounts :P
<Azelphur> account type IRC, select freenode from the network list
<Tav_> I think I am on freenode
<Azelphur> Tav_: cool
<hamitron> time for some sleep for me, nn you lot
<HazRPG> hamitron \o/
<HazRPG> hamitron: nite dude :)
<hamitron> and good luck Tav_
<Tav_> Thanks
<Tav_> night
<Azelphur> Tav_: now go to room > Join
<HazRPG> Tav_: so your using empathy right now to chat to us? Just to confirm... since CTCP has me to believe otherwise :P
<Azelphur> Tav_: in the account box, select "# <yournick> on freenode"
<Azelphur> Tav_: in the room box, put #astronomy, leave the server box blank, your set :)
<Tav_> Haz no I am using the browser version cus Empathy doesn't work :s
<Tav_> Yes, I went to Room --> Join
<Azelphur> HazRPG: I told you he's using qwebirc, how can he be using empathy I havn't finished instructing him on how to set it up yet >.>
<Tav_> but when I go to room, there's nothing!
<Tav_> I mean "Room list"
<HazRPG> Azelphur: lol fair play, i'll leave ya to it :)
<Tav_> There is nothing under "Room list"
<Azelphur> Tav_: no need for room list, in the room box just type #astronomy
<Azelphur> and then click join
<Tav_> it seems to have worked but there is no one in astronomy
<Azelphur> did you put "astronomy" or "#astronomy"
<Azelphur> the # is important
<Tav_> So I tried "ubuntu-uk" and it did the same: the room appears but there is no one.
<Tav_> Yeah I put the #
<HazRPG> Tav_: hang on, i'll see if i can make you a video to show you :)
<Azelphur> that works xD
<Tav_> Haz no worries dude - you're already really nice to help me so much
<Tav_> I will try and figure it out
<Tav_> What client do you use?
<HazRPG> Tav_: its cool, won't take me long :)
<HazRPG> Tav_: I use pidgin and irssi - but thats because i use a complex setup
<Tav_> But how will you send me the vid?
<HazRPG> pidgin is awesome though for general irc + other stuff like msn, etc
<Tav_> Seriously it's ok
<HazRPG> Tav_: oh, via youtube link :)
<HazRPG> its fine, seriously, i can show the video to some of my friends that i want to get them into irc too :P
<Tav_> Are you sure?
<HazRPG> lol yeah
<Tav_> Ok in that case ok]
<Azelphur> yea will be handy, this question comes up a lot actually
<Azelphur> so it'll be useful to have a video
<HazRPG> Azelphur: indeed!
<Tav_> I am indebted to you for your resourcefullness. Thank you
<HazRPG> right ok, going to start recording now :)
<HazRPG> ah i can see why you had issues now
<HazRPG> interesting
<test_user_irc> ah no wait, i was just being daft... right lets start that again :P
<test_user_irc> (HazRPG here btw!)
<Tav_> Hey
<Tav_> I downloaded Pigon and it seems to work better
<Tav_> I can access yahoo chat rooms apparently
<Tav_> Interesting..
<Azelphur> Tav_: xchat works the best imo :D
<Azelphur> xchat is best for IRC
<irc_test_user> hi
<Azelphur> hi
<irc_test_user> testing empathy on irc :)
<Azelphur> nice
<Azelphur> irc_test_user: what ISP are you with? you have working ipv6 :o
<irc_test_user> Azelphur: its me dude! :P
<irc_test_user> Azelphur: just finished the video :)
<Azelphur> oh right :D
<irc_test_user> currently doing encoding, won't take long :)
<irc_test_user> I think I f-ed up a bit... but oh well :P
<Azelphur> do want working ipv6 though
<Azelphur> or are you tunneling?
<irc_test_user> not really much of a public speaker lol
<Tav_> Ok
<Tav_> What is the YouTube video ID?
<irc_test_user> Azelphur: ah, yeah its IPv6 tunneling :)
<irc_test_user> Azelphur: using HE
<Azelphur> cheater :P
<irc_test_user> got a tutorial on it on my  blog :)
<irc_test_user> http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/
<Azelphur> fun
<irc_test_user> Tav_: its still encoding the video, so i'll upload to YouTube once its done and i'll give you the link :)
<irc_test_user> currently 38% done
<Tav_> Cheers
<irc_test_user> Azelphur: wish more ISP's in the UK supported IPv6 native
<irc_test_user> Azelphur: how are you online if your having net issues?
<Azelphur> same
<Azelphur> mobile :D
<Tav_> Thanks guys much appreciated
<irc_test_user> Azelphur: ah :P
<irc_test_user> Azelphur: cheap :P
<irc_test_user> cheat*
<Azelphur> :D
<irc_test_user> right, going to log out of empathy now :P
<HazRPG> \o
<HazRPG> 70% encoded
<HazRPG> hopefully the video should come out right :)
<HazRPG> right, just uploading to youtube now :)
<ali12341> empathy developers finally cracked and added support for /join in irc windows
<HazRPG> ali12341: did they? I couldn't get it to work
<HazRPG> urgh... I have a feeling this video upload isn't going well
<HazRPG> i used MP4mux tho :/
<HazRPG> ah no wait... looks fine now :)
<HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_yvPl152L0
<HazRPG> ta da
<HazRPG> does that seem ok to everyone?
<HazRPG> it is done in one take
<HazRPG> and no script to read from lol
<Azelphur> he left xD
 * Azelphur watches anyway
<HazRPG> Azelphur: yeah i noitced :/
<HazRPG> tried to ta<tab> him lol
<Azelphur> looks like a good guide though :D
<HazRPG> Azelphur: woot!
<HazRPG> ta da... quick blog post with video embedded: http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/04/17/video-how-to-loginuse-irc-with-empathy/
<|System|> hello ?
<|System|> Anyone alive?
<Azelphur> just about
<HazRPG> |System|: as alive as 4am will grant, yeah :P
<|System|> haha
<Azelphur> real men...no sleep...
<Azelphur> xD
<HazRPG> Azelphur: man, I just noticed your always online just as late as I am!
<|System|> Im kinda drunk and playing with ubuntu
<Azelphur> good combination
<|System|> tis a carm evening
<HazRPG> |System|: great combination, hurray \o/ :P
<HazRPG> Azelphur: ha, same though I had :P
<|System|> lol. I do my best
<Azelphur> xD
<HazRPG> |System|: hmm, your not a guy I know are ya... sounds like something he'd do...
<HazRPG> you doing a networking course in preston?
<|System|> Nope
<|System|> I am a different System
<HazRPG> ah no, he doesn't generally call himself system... its just the whole "cram/drunk" combo... sounds like something a guy I know would do :P
<|System|> :P
<|System|> Ah, I see
<HazRPG> holy cow, if you google "ipv6 ubuntu 10.10" I'm on the first page!
<HazRPG> 8th to be exact!
<|System|> Welldone
<Azelphur> HazRPG: nice, get adsense on your site xD
<HazRPG> Azelphur: tempted xD
<|System|> I think i ordered the last shipit cd  :P
<stgraber> HazRPG: hehe, I've got the same rating for my blog but with "ipv6 ubuntu natty" :)
<HazRPG> stgraber: nice :)
<|System|> Who else ordered a free Ubuntu CD before they ran out ?
<|System|> No one ?
<HazRPG> nope
<HazRPG> I've ordered free ubuntu CDs since 6.06 or so though, but I've got a faster internet connection now - so I don't need to :)
<HazRPG> right I'm off for a bit to do a few tasks
<HazRPG> speak soon :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Hassan Williamson] Video: How to login/use IRC with empathy. - http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/04/17/video-how-to-loginuse-irc-with-empathy/
<|System|> 6:12am .. . Time to sleep
<|System|> Night people who are going to see this in the future
<popey> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<danfish> a hoy hoy!
<danfish> where's the sunshine the weatherman promised?
<danfish> chillicam will be going active this week. It'll be right up there for excitement with 'paintdryingcam'
<Myrtti> I had a guinea pig cam when I was at lrl 2008
<danfish> cool
<danfish> was it strapped to the guinea pig? ;)
<Myrtti> no, it was on a window ledge pointing towards where they were on my balcony
<xircon> Morning all - quick question - Anyone use the get_iplayer script?
<danfish> xircon: yup
<MartijnVdS> Lots of sunshine on this end of the pond
<MartijnVdS> F1 is exciting today
<MartijnVdS> </spoilers>
<kaushal> hi popey
<xircon> @danfish Trying to download Just a Minute, but it does not show in the radio listings!  Going to try the direct URL back in a tick.
<kaushal> Any good terminal application apart from gnome-terminal ?
<danfish> kaushal: terminator
<xircon> Gnome based or KDE
<kaushal> gnome based
<xircon> Guake
<xircon> It is a Quake style drop down terminal
<Myrtti> MOAR TEA
<xircon> Hmmmm - get_iplayer --type=radio --get http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01093pn/Just_a_Minute_14_04_2011/
<xircon> Works and is downloading as I type
<kaushal> popey: i saw your reply
<kaushal> so unity is a desktop ?
<kaushal> its confusing
<popey> its not
<kaushal> or is it a gnome shell
<popey> !unity
<lubotu3> Unity is a shell for GNOME, but it is not GNOME-shell. See http://unity.ubuntu.com and http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/10/31/unity-some-further-clarification-points/ for more information. Have a question, check http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/unity
<kaushal> Unity is a shell for GNOME, but it is not GNOME-shell ?
<kaushal> contradicting ?
<popey> no
<popey> GNOME Shell is a product of the GNOME project
<popey> Unity is a product of Canonical / the Ubuntu project
<popey> two products by two organisations
<kaushal> so what does shell mean in Unity is a shell for GNOME ?
<kaushal> please help me understand
<popey> the main UI you see
<kaushal> ah ok
<kaushal> so is there a pre requisite to have 3D support Video Card to enable Unity UI ?
<popey> for Unity 3D, yes
<popey> for Unity 2D, no
<kaushal> so if i install 11.04 it will default to Unity 2D ?
<MartijnVdS> But unity 2D does not exist yet
<popey> no kaushal
<popey> the default in 11.04 is Unity 3d
<popey> if your desktop cannot do 3d, the fallback is standard classic GNOME with two panels
<popey> (same as you get in 10.10
<popey> MartijnVdS: it exists, but its not finished
<popey> (like unity 3d) :D
<kaushal> popey: ok
<kaushal> so it depends entirely on Hardware ?
<kaushal> I mean the Video Card
<popey> the 3d capability does, yes
<kaushal> ok
<kaushal> popey: thanks
<popey> np
<kaushal> Also I am planning to procure Dell Vostro 3500
<popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201004-5574
<kaushal> so which laptop do you recommend to enable Unity 3D ?
<popey> no idea
<kaushal> so http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201004-5574 support Unity 3D ?
<popey> dunno
<MartijnVdS> Recent (i3/i5) intel graphics should be fine
<kaushal> is there a way to pre check ?
<popey> 11.04 isnt out yet.
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: ok
<kaushal> I need to wait until Apr 28 2011
<kaushal> Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: so this should support Unity 3D ?
<kaushal> as per http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201004-5574
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: I don't know about the certification page
<kaushal> Its one of the ideal laptop
<awilkins> If you have access to one in a shop, you could always take a live USB stick and test it
<awilkins> THey'll do anything if they think there's a sale in it
<kaushal> But is there a recommended page about Unity 3D which Video Card supports
<awilkins> Should it just be anything that supports Compiz / OpenGL ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: If it supports OpenGL 1.4 or better, it should work.
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes
 * MartijnVdS has a machine with an old (stone-age) intel graphics chip.. it's so bad it's _blacklisted_ (not just "not supported")
<MartijnVdS> but that's an i830 (long before the current generation)
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: great
<kaushal> Thanks
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: which chip is that/
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: what? the i830?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: is that actually blacklisted as not supported?
<livingdaylight> greetings
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I think there is a hardware bug of some kind that's tickled by it
<gordonjcp> weird
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: also, OpenGL 1.2 :(
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I don't know why we these days we can't just stick a RAMDAC and a horking great FPGA on a card
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: isn't that basically what a graphics card is? :)
<MartijnVdS> (this is an on-board thing from 2002, remember)
<gordonjcp> well yes
<livingdaylight> http://www.wimp.com/tickledpenguin/
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I love how the new integrated graphics (sandy bridge) is almost as fast as mid-end (is that a word?) ATI/Nvidia
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: OpenGL 1.4 ?
<kaushal> does that mean its available in 11.04 ?
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: no, it means version 1.4 of OpenGL
<kaushal> yes
<kaushal> so its Video Card specific ?
<kaushal> Explain me the significance
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: Every new version of OpenGL requires new things of a graphics chip
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: so if a graphics chip has enough features to support OpenGL 1.2 but not 1.4, we say it's an OpenGL 1.2 card
<MartijnVdS> if it support enough for 1.4, it's an OpenGL 1.4 compatible card
<livingdaylight> 11.04 release date coinciding with wedding?
<MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: yeah
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<brobostigon> HazRPG: hi, i think you made a spelling mistake in the first word, of the 4th paragraph of your last blog post.
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: most GPUs from the last few years support 1.4 easily (but back in '02 the version 1.4 of OpenGL didn't exist yet, so no chips from that time support it)
<kaushal> ok
<livingdaylight> gnome3 isn't so well received it seems
<shauno> I haven't heard anything really negative about either of them.  concerns, but heading in the right direction
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: if nothing else, sticking an FPGA on a card with some supporting hardware will be good for teaching people about video drivers
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: more specificallly, it'll teach the "ZOMG NVidia are teh evils because their drivers are closed-source" crowd that graphic card firmware is Really Really Hard
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: hard firmware doesn't stop intel and ati from releasing specs ;)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: yeah
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: otoh Intel and ATI cards don't really work very well
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: except they do
<gordonjcp> ATI doesn't
<gordonjcp> you get to choose between accelerated video and TV out
<MartijnVdS> TV out is becoming obsolete though, with HDMI and all
<gordonjcp> you can't feed HDMI into a modulator
<shauno> proof that if you ignore things for long enough, they *will* go away
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I won't use or recommend *any* ATI product, now or at any time in the future, because of this
<gordonjcp> I bought 20 ATI cards that were oldish but still current, about halfway up the technology curve, to use in a video display system
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I recommend intel graphics these days
<gordonjcp> "Yes, these cards are fully supported in Linux"
<gordonjcp> gret
<gordonjcp> *great, even
<gordonjcp> six months down the line and BANG
<gordonjcp> support for them was deleted in the driver
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I don't like the Intel chipsets
<gordonjcp> they're slow and crashy
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: so.. you're a matrox man?
<gordonjcp> especially now that they've forced KMS onto it
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: no, I only use NVidia
<MartijnVdS> *shudder*
<gordonjcp> my laptop has Intel, but it only supports text mode
<MartijnVdS> I've had more problems with nvidia than with ati
<gordonjcp> then you're Doing It Wrong
<Pendulum> morning
<MartijnVdS> especially "hey, kernel security upgrade.. now I have to spend a day to get my drivers to work again"
<gordonjcp> *all* NVidia cards right back to their earliest ones are well-supported in Linux
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: oh, they're broken in Debianish distributions, because of upstream Debian vandalism
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: also, no support for proper display configuration tools (xrandr)
<gordonjcp> I've never found a practical use for xrandr
<MartijnVdS> I have
<MartijnVdS> it works great on my laptop (intel) when connecting it to my TV or a projector
<MartijnVdS> coworkers with nvidia? problems all the time
<gordonjcp> I use NVidia; pluggin in projectors just plain works
<gordonjcp> *plugging
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: not on my coworkers' laptops.. they have to use the tool to write a xorg.conf and then restart X for it to work
<MartijnVdS> the nvidia-settings tool
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: they must be doing something wrong, then
<gordonjcp> I've never used nvidia-settings
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Yeah, they're not using intel.
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: how do you configure it then?
<gordonjcp> it all just works perfectly out of the box
<gordonjcp> put card in, install driver
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Sure.. attach projector on the fly... how do you tell it to be a second screen instead of a mirror, etc.?
<gordonjcp> no idea, it's not something I've ever needed to do
<MartijnVdS> nvidia is bad at that, intel good and ati acceptable (xrandr!)
<gordonjcp> right, but that's not a good enough reason to switch to otherwise poorly-supported Intel hardware
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Poorly-supported in what way?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: they're slow and buggy
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: no 3D support, at sensible speeds
<MartijnVdS> 3D works fine here, at a sensible (for me) speed
<MartijnVdS> also, no crashes yet
<gordonjcp> they never ever come back from suspend
<MartijnVdS> Maybe in 2008.. that's worked for ages on my laptop
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: <shrug>
<MartijnVdS> since the whole KMS thing
<gordonjcp> they don't work *at all* on my laptop
<gordonjcp> no graphics support since KMS came in
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: what kind of chip?
<gordonjcp> can't remember offhand, it's a Thinkpad R50e
<gordonjcp> intel GM855 rings a bell
<MartijnVdS> That's 2003ish?
<gordonjcp> no idea
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: what's that got to do with anything?
<gordonjcp> I thought Linux was supposed to work well on older hardware?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Older intel chips were poo (on a hardware level). :)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: right, but is that an excuse for removing support for the card?
<MartijnVdS> they fixed that.
<MartijnVdS> They didn't remove support. I have a machine with even older (830) graphics that works fine
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: let me just reiterate - the graphics worked about as well as could be expected, *right up until KMS was introduced*
<gordonjcp> now there is no graphics support
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: What's the bug number?
<brobostigon> is dropbox under linux, using excessive amounts of ram, for anyone else, around 500MB in total here.
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: bug number?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: you did file a bug to report that your graphics doesn't work, right?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: no, because it's not a bug
<MartijnVdS> it is.. if hardware isn't supported, file a bug.
<gordonjcp> Intel want to sell more graphics chipsets by disabling support for older ones, and that's fine
<MartijnVdS> especially if it used to be supported.
<gordonjcp> they're just not going to sell chips to me
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: except they don't, because it works fine on my even-older Intel chips.
<bigcalm> directhex: does Super Meat Boy audio work for you?
<bigcalm> The intro does for me, but then nothing in game
<brobostigon> does anyone here use dropbox on 11.04 or 10.10 and get massive ram usage?
<popey>  2051 alan      20   0  518m  66m  18m S    0  0.8   0:39.94 dropbox
<popey> is that massive brobostigon ?
<popey> above it I have xorg, compiz, java and firefox
<brobostigon> popey yes, half my ram is big usage.
<brobostigon> gpu hang, on my natty eeepc, so i am logged into it via ssh.
<czajkowski> pretty day in London
<gord> i like it when people try and explain what unity/gnome-shell is, it basically ends up turning into something resembling the fork handles sketch
<czajkowski> meh
 * brobostigon shakes fist at DRM.
<brobostigon> gpu hang, :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: my X recovers from GPU hangs (they don't happen often, but I've had entries in the log about it)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: shows up in dmesg here, and xorg isnt recovering, and it is happening sometimes a few times a day.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: did you enable/disable KMS?
<MartijnVdS> (i.e. change from the default)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: not a clue, sorry, it is default.
<matti> ;]
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: can you pastebin "lsmod" output somewhere?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (guessing i915 is loaded)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no problem, one minute.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/595114/
<brobostigon> lsmod | pastebinit   :)
<MartijnVdS> yeah, i915 is loaded.. try rebooting with "i915.modeset=0" on the kernel command line
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: umm, ok, i will try, how will that help?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it'll let X do all the GPU work, instead of the kernel
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it uses a different code path, which might be less buggy
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see. i will try when i next reboot,, thank you.
<MartijnVdS> or at least differently buggy :)
<brobostigon> hmm,
<MartijnVdS> hmm?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: can you elaborate on that comment please.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Well the KMS (kernel mode setting) code apparently has a bug that makes your GPU hang
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: If you disable KMS and let X do all GPU stuff, if it works better, it might still have bugs
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, the many bugs i have read, regarding it, point towards that, yes.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: other ones than GPU hangs :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see,
<MartijnVdS> but a messed-up mouse cursor isn't as bad as a hanging GPU :)
<brobostigon> greed, atleast with the former i canstill do something, and dont need to rely on ssh to get things working again,
<brobostigon> agreed*
<MartijnVdS> vnc ;)
<brobostigon> or that. yes, :)
<jacobw> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Aqo0mtC4HzfP7BGt_NV453Mf3IlQ;_ylv=3?qid=20110417052836AAucfYk
<jacobw> :|
<jacobw> i knew there was a reason i'd never porused yahoo answers before
<MartijnVdS> ...
<Pendulum> signs of American's weaknesses: one of my mates just tweeted that 20oz is a lot of beer
<AlanBell> not sure how much 20oz is, but I do know what a lot of beer is when I see it.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's a UK pint
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (US pints are 16oz afaik)
<Pendulum> MartijnVdS: correct
<AlanBell> a lot of beer -> http://twitter.com/#!/search/beerex
<Pendulum> because in the US 1 pint = 2 cups and 1 cup = 8 oz
<Pendulum> don't ask me who made these measurements up, I have no idea
<MartijnVdS> \o/ metric system
<Pendulum> and I think all pints should be 20oz
<Pendulum> at least when they involve beer or cider
<Pendulum> this is why when someone said earlier this week that 20oz of pepsi was a lot, I disagreed
<MartijnVdS> for Americans, it's not
<MartijnVdS> don't you get quarts at drive-throughs? :)
<Pendulum> I mostly think if you're used to drinking your beer by the pint, why should it be an issue to drink soft drinks by the pint
<Pendulum> haha
<Pendulum> I don't know
<Pendulum> you actually might be able to these days...
<brobostigon> how much is a quart ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: about a liter
 * Pendulum has not gone through a drive through since October (and then it was Starbucks and I was getting tea)
<Pendulum> 1.06 liters
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: wow, yes, that is quite abit,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: (2 US pints = 32fl.oz)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah,
<AlanBell> I found that in America all the measurements kind of made sense and everything fitted
<AlanBell> so you get a *huge* thing of milk, but it exactly fits the *huge* fridge
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that's because most things are dual-measurement :)
<Pendulum> haha
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Urinals and toilets were marked with their volume in both liters and weird American measures
 * AlanBell is astonished that a urinal has a rated volume
<Pendulum> when I was a kid we'd go though a *huge* thing of milk in about 3 days (if not less time than that)
 * AlanBell is bubbling over with unsuitable urinal related comments
 * brobostigon imagines bad tolilet humour.
<brobostigon> toilet*
 * AlanBell goes to put some stuff on the BBQ. Laters all o/
<brobostigon> bye, enjoy AlanBell :)
<Pendulum> AlanBell: have fun!
<popey> wheeeee!
 * popey files 3 more bugs in unity
<popey> bug 763569
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 763569 in unity (Ubuntu) "Ugly horizontal panel bar visible when switching workspaces" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/763569
<popey> bug 763576
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 763576 in unity (Ubuntu) "Ugly white boxes when switching windows or indicators" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/763576
<popey> bug 763579
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 763579 in unity (Ubuntu) "Panel drop shadow causes issues for screencasting apps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/763579
<popey> decided no to use "ugly" on the last one :)
<shauno> admit it, you just couldn't device between 'ugly drop shadow' and 'ugly issues'
<shauno> er, *decide
<ali12341> heh, the dropshadow moves but the panel doesn't
<popey> indeed
<popey> i want an option to disable that drop shadow
<popey> i also want a pony
<ali12341> "use classic desktop"
<popey> :)
<popey> when someone has asked me to make videos for a book, where the feature of the book is.. unity
<popey> that suggestion sadly wont wash :)
<popey> maybe the book should say "hey, unity is the new UI, but we wont show it cos it's broken like"
<ali12341> "this page intentionally left blank" x 500
<popey> haha
<popey> and just a copy of big buck bunny on the cd
<dutchie> AlanBell/Pendulum: there is a austrian pub in worcester where you can buy beer by the litre :)
<Pendulum> I've been to a pub in Germany where that was possible
<brobostigon> plenty of pubs in germany, etc do that.
<popey> i suspect the point being that this is the UK, where we don't take to metrification of our beer
<dutchie> indeed, but not many this side of the channel
<dutchie> and a litre is quite a lot
<shauno> remember finding a place in prague that served by the litre.  we vowed never to leave.
<shauno> in my defence, I don't remember leaving
<Pendulum> maybe you didn't. maybe this is all an illusion and you're still there
<shauno> that may explain a lot
<MartijnVdS> shauno: good thing beer is cheaper than water in Prague
<MartijnVdS> shauno: (we had a â¬11 bottle of water in our hotel room there)
<popey> yeah, that was outrageous
<popey> although we took a fon access point and used it to share the hotel wired network to our wifi devices
<popey> someone paid to use it :)
<shauno> I've taken to always taking a router with me :/
<shauno> with what they charge in roaming costs, it's worth the hassle just for my phone
<nucc1> anyone have any idea why my gnome3 desktop power management is not turning off my monitors?
<nucc1> i also can't find a shutdown button anywhere
<kazade> nucc1, hold ALT.. suspend turns to shutdown apparently
<nucc1> kazade, aye. thanks. hmmm.
<MartijnVdS> kazade: another great "feature"
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and or should i try the newest kernel from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.39-rc3-natty/ aswell ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: change one variable at a time -- if the kernel command line option works, say so on the bug
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: then try the ppa kernel, check if IT works (with and without the option)
<MartijnVdS> and report again
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, yes, you are right, thank you.
<HazRPG> lo \o
<HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm? I did?
<MartijnVdS> howdy
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: howdy doodle \o
<HazRPG> brobostigon: no, I spelled that right :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: alis is a bot /msg alis help :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i didnt know, so i thought it was a mistake, sorry.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: its ok :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: guessing you didn't see the video then :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i havent yet, i only got as far as reading it, atthe moment,
<HazRPG> brobostigon: alis is very useful, and she accepts wildcards :)
<brobostigon> HazRPG: i just watched your video, yes, i need tohve a pplaywith this, it looks interesting.
<HazRPG> brobostigon: its useful when one is being lazy :)
<HazRPG> even more useful since it'll tell you how many people are in there too
<brobostigon> HazRPG: which i dontthink irssi's list function doesnt do.
<HazRPG> I always use the wildcard in the front and the back just in case.
<MartijnVdS> /names gives a total
<HazRPG> mainly because I'm never sure if it has # or ## or not hash at all
<brobostigon> HazRPG: goodpoint, yes.
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: /names is a  userlist though, not channel listing,
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Ah, but that's if your already /in/ a channel :P
<brobostigon> oh, yes. sorry, minterpretation.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe, just found this album on u1ms: Various ArtistsÂ -Â The Workout Mix 2011
<HazRPG> seems to have 52 songs, each of roughly Â£0.99, or Â£8.99 for the album!
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: good deal
<HazRPG> seems to have a mix of old and new on there
<HazRPG> ooo, it even has: Owl City -Â Fireflies!
<HazRPG> I like that song :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: it's not in the international store
<MartijnVdS> but several "80s workout mixes" are 8-)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: seriously, it isn't!? :O
<HazRPG> that sucks :(
<MartijnVdS> no.. probably contains Sony/BMG artists
<MartijnVdS> Everything except Sony/BMG and some "independent" labels aren't on there
<HazRPG> Label: Universal Music Ireland Ltd.
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<HazRPG> search for "Renegade Master" that was what I looked for
<HazRPG> and how I found it
<brobostigon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cos7APz8ves&feature=player_embedded
<brobostigon> very funny,
<HazRPG> was trying to find the fatboy slim version, but found the original for some reason lol
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can get an u1ms link from the store
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: not sure if it'll show up, but here it is: http://www.7digital.com/artists/various-artists/the-workout-mix-2011/
<HazRPG> brobostigon: I think he meant me :P
<brobostigon> HazRPG: ah, maybe.
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> sorry
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: you can't get a u1ms link as far as I know... but all the music comes directly from 7digital anyways
<HazRPG> according to the bottom of the u1ms anyways :P
<HazRPG> "Service provided by 7digital Â©2004-2010 7digital"
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: did the 7digital link work?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: that does
<MartijnVdS> but 7digital has a Dutch sture
<MartijnVdS> store*
<MartijnVdS> while U1MS doesn't (afaik)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah I think 7digital have a deal with canonical
<HazRPG> either that, or they're hoping people will subscribe to their extra space package
<HazRPG> I'll see if I can urlsnarf the u1ms url :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you can't.. it's generated by Rhythmbox
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: can on my side ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh, rofl, its just a forward to this page: http://www.7digital.com/artists/various-artists/the-workout-mix-2011
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: exactly.. have Rhythmbox copy the URL for you :)
<HazRPG> actual link that rhythm makes is: http://stores.7digital.com/7_1/productDetail.aspx?pid=1057708&sid=29036561&tid=11623563
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: check out ma google fuuuuuu ;)
<HazRPG> http://www.7digital.com/stores/default.aspx?shop=496
<HazRPG> do I know my web stuff, or do I know my web stuff :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: when playing a song, right-click and select "Copy U1MS URL" or something
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I can't right-click in rhythm at all in the music store
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "Get link to Music Store" outside the store, when playing a song
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: "Unable to automatically detect which song is currently playing. Please try searching for the song in the Ubuntu One Music Store."
<kvarley> http://www.roozz.com/ - How can I make their 32-bit linux plugin work on a 64-bit install of ubuntu?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: doesn't matter what I do or search for same results
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: :|
<MartijnVdS> Time to listen to some "real music" (on vinyl :))
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> that is sooooo weird
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: says the person who bought a C64 to play SIDs
<HazRPG> the u1ms on the browser can't seem to find the "The Workout Mix 2011" but in Rhythmbox it can :S
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: lol, no vinyl is awesome :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I meant u1ms
<MartijnVdS> \o/ Kraftwerk
<MartijnVdS> "Produced in W. Germany"
<gordonjcp> yay, Kraftwerk
<gordonjcp> incidentally, regarding playing SID tunes
<gordonjcp> I have eight new-old-stock 6581s in a bag sitting here
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ^ you reading that? :)
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: :o!
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I am now, thanks for the buzz :P
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: /help hilight
<gordonjcp> HazRPG: I've had them for about 20 years
<gordonjcp> HazRPG: I grabbed them from the spares drawer of a computer shop I was working for when it went bust and was being cleared out
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: awesome :)
<directhex> bigcalm: yeah, it's very squishy soundig
<gordonjcp> HazRPG: *if* I'd thought that they would ever be worth anything I'd have desoldered the 6581s from the 70 or 80 semi-dead C64s that we threw in the skip
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: >_<
<HazRPG> wait desolder?
<HazRPG> they just pop out lol
<gordonjcp> HazRPG: in 1992, they were horrible old shite that didn't even work and no-one wanted them for anything
<gordonjcp> the 6581?
<gordonjcp> soldered in...
<gordonjcp> not hard to desolder
<gordonjcp> hot air paintstripper, heat the board, whack it off the bench
<HazRPG> oh, the actual clip is soldered on, but the chip itself isn't
<gordonjcp> HazRPG: hm, they are on most C64s
 * gordonjcp -> off out
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: I've got 2 here, and I took them out with a screw driver, cleaned off some muck off them and popped them back :P
<gordonjcp> HazRPG: for maximum geekyness I wanted to mount them on a QBus protoboard and fit them in my PDP11
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: do those chips still work?
<gordonjcp> HazRPG: probably, they've been packed in antistatic stuff for all that time
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: how many you got? And do you mind sparing one?
<HazRPG> gordonjcp: cos the one I've got seems to be defunct :(
<HazRPG> makes some unnatural sounds
<MartijnVdS> like.. a bit computery?
<MartijnVdS> like chiptunes?
<MartijnVdS> </sorry>
<HazRPG> loool
<HazRPG> nah, its got more of a crackle then it should :/
<HazRPG> n can't play some of the notes for some odd reason :(
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: u1ms has arabic music!
<MartijnVdS> it does?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: It does! And no wonder I couldn't find them... I was trying to type their names in arabic... when it's the english written the way it would sound in arabic
<HazRPG> which makes them harder to find :(
<HazRPG> search for Hakim :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I don't think I'd get much out of Arabic music
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: problem 1: the language ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: That's no excuse lol, I listen to german and other languages... and I don't understand them :P
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Seems his most popular album which made him famous in Egypt isn't on there for some stupid reason: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf8jsnwrk-0 <== this song
<gord> people listen to music for the lyrics? crazy people
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: omg the music channel called mazika (mazika = music), seems to be recommending IE9 for some reason! http://www.mazika.com/Default.aspx
<MartijnVdS> becuase MS sponsors!
<MartijnVdS> </conspiracy>
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> I seriously need to set up shop in Egypt and teach them some sense!
<gord> would be nice if u1 made an online music streaming service
<MartijnVdS> gord: like spotify?
<gord> no
<HazRPG> would be, but I don't think 7digital do streaming
<gord> like the music streaming it already has, but not limited to my phone
<HazRPG> seems its restart time
<HazRPG> avoided it for a while (updates required restart)
<HazRPG> but seems I can't avoid it any longer lol
<MartijnVdS> bye
<MartijnVdS> and good luck ;)
<HazRPG> lol
<HazRPG> indeed
<HazRPG> brb
<HazRPG> back
<HazRPG> heh, seems i didn't miss much
<Azelphur> Well, there goes my new internet, that only took 1 day :(
<HazRPG> Azelphur: Hmm?
<Azelphur> My dad phoned them up while I was asleep and started demanding the ADSL Login information told them he was going to hack it and that their company policy was stupid
<Azelphur> and I think I even overheard him making some sexist jokes at the expense of the tech support lady.
<Azelphur> something about it's in the female genes
<DJones> Azelphur: Why did he do that
<Azelphur> DJones: so he can get my internet cut off \o/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: ouch
<HazRPG> Azelphur: can your dad even hack :/?
<Azelphur> indeed, that only lasted a day haha
<Myrtti> do I even want to know...?
<DJones> Myrtti: Probably not
<Azelphur> HazRPG: he did reflash the old version of the sky router but I think he doesn't know how to do the newer ones
<HazRPG> Azelphur: was all this just because the internet was being funny?
<Azelphur> HazRPG: the internet went down, I was going to get called back by tier 2 support today or tomorrow to arrange a replacement router or BT engineer
<HazRPG> Azelphur: I knew it was a good move to go from UKonline to BeThere instead of sky
<Azelphur> haha, sky didn't really do anything wrong it's probably just that the router broke
<HazRPG> Azelphur: my point exactly :P
<Azelphur> now my dads being abusive to them I'll probably end up getting cut off or something \o/
<HazRPG> Azelphur: my old ISP UKonline said they'd merged with Sky, and that they're asking us to shift our details by Jan of this year over to Sky... I said "hell no..." and went elsewhere
<Myrtti> is it a good thing you're getting cut off?
<Myrtti> no, wait, nevermind
<Myrtti> I don't want to know.
<Azelphur> no, I've only had it one day haha
<Azelphur> my dads just trying to sabotage it so I get no internet, it's a power game :(
<MartijnVdS> .. move out?
<Azelphur> on my todo list :P
<HazRPG> Azelphur: mainly because sky had me on hold for like 2-3hrs when I was going to merge it over... instead I just asked for my MAC code because if that's the support I was going to get from them, then I wanted nothing to do with them. I preferred UKonline's 24/7 support service
<DJones> Azelphur: If the contract is in your name why is he ringing them up, if its in his name .... Its up to him :)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: when I called it seemed nice, they answered pretty quick and have 24/7 now and I didn't get mucked about with the whole "Right click my computer" "BUT THE ADSL SYNC LIGHT IS RED" thing
<Azelphur> DJones: my mum in her great wisdom and against my advice let him take it in his name
<Azelphur> and i knew something like this would happen and told her so :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: you probably got through to the UKonline support team, guessing they kept them on if its 24hrs now lol
<HazRPG> the UKonline support team was always great to me
<Azelphur> HazRPG: seemed cool as I say, I got through to tier 0 and I said the internet is down, and before they started asking me questions I just said "The ADSL Light on the router is Amber" "Solid amber?" "Yes" "Hold while I put you through to tier 1"
<HazRPG> I could ring them up any time, say the word linux... and they'll be like ahhhh, well in that case, I'm guessing you've tried x, y, z... hang on a moment *type type type*
<Azelphur> straight through to tier 1, tier 1 starts running line tests
<Azelphur> and meanwhile we talk about Linux and virtualization xD
<Azelphur> yea that's pretty much what happened to me
<HazRPG> hehe
<HazRPG> I loved the ukonline team :)
<HazRPG> BeThere have an irc server though :P
<Azelphur> HazRPG: they arn't unbundled in my area + they are Unlimited* :P
<HazRPG> Azelphur: hmm?
<Azelphur> Be have a FUP
<HazRPG> moment door
<HazRPG> Azelphur: UKonline did... it was 500GB FUP ;)
<Azelphur> yea sky is no fup that's why I chose :P
<nucc1> to move virtualbox VMs to another machine, is it enough to just copy the .Virtualbox folder across?
<Myrtti> zoink
<Myrtti> Comic Sans used in telly :-(
 * MartijnVdS gave up on that specific fight
<Myrtti> aw, this programme has the same background music early Who do you think you are-shows have
<jacobw> 'ambigous title'
<AlanBell> can anyone confirm the instructions here work? http://launchpad.net/circleoffriends
<dutchie> seems to
<dutchie> although i can't see any tweets
<dutchie> aha
<AlanBell> yeah, good point, people might expect it to load past tweets
<Myrtti> wohey, election night
<AlanBell> issyl0: dutchie: fun isn't it!
<dutchie> it is
<issyl0> AlanBell: Yes!
<gord> AlanBell, any aspirations to get that in to gwibber? :)
<AlanBell> screaming fast twitter updates in gwibber, hmm
 * dutchie is investigating patching streaming api into current twitter client
<AlanBell> gord: I have seen the insides of gwibber
<AlanBell> which is why I started from scratch
<gord> can you not just keep it as a library that you can hook in to, then you can keep your client for your own development and hook gwibber into the library for gwibber
<AlanBell> It would be good to get it in, but it would be a bit of a rearchitecture job that the core developers would need to be heavily involved in
<gord> the main reason i keep using gwibber rather than better other clients, is because gwibber does everything, so i wouldn't use something thats twitter only
<AlanBell> the library is available, tweepy. I contributed the upstream patch to get user streams working
<AlanBell> I just wanted a light framework I could experiment with, and gwibber isn't that
<AlanBell> I don't know if identi.ca has a streaming API
<gord> sure :) why i said asparations - i never start of coding a new project or idea in something big like gwibber, i always prototype and make sure i get it working in a nice light client
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: TDD? :)
<AlanBell> "
<MartijnVdS> "?
<AlanBell> Private streams are not implemented in StatusNet yet."
<AlanBell> yeah, this is a prototype
<AlanBell> but it might end up as a quite functional twitter client
 * MartijnVdS loves test suites :)
<Myrtti> Status.net has very little private anything anyway
<Myrtti> which is one of the reasons I stopped using it
<MartijnVdS> It's the internet, I don't assume privacy anyway
<AlanBell> it is a betamax vs VHS thing
<gord> not if you have a client that works on everything ;)
<Myrtti> I assume that in the Internet I don't have to hand my information on a silver platter to malicious people
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you don't have to, but they wouldn't mind of course :)
<Myrtti> but anyway, it's a discussion of apples and oranges, status.net obviously isn't for everyone
<Myrtti> which is why everyone aren't using it
<Myrtti> AHAHAHAAa election night alright, national broadcasting company is using the vote data well
<Myrtti> http://beta.yle.fi/eduskuntavaalit_2011/ - race for being PM
<ali12341> Myrtti: but who do i root for?
<AlanBell> !root
<lubotu3> Do not try to guess the root password, that is impossible. Instead, realise the truth... there is no root password. Then you will see that it is 'sudo' that grants you access and not the root password. Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
<DJones> AlanBell: Just about to try circleoffriends, would you expect it to want to download & install 328Mb of files for the sudo apt-get install bzr quickly ?
<AlanBell> not if you are starting from Ubuntu
<AlanBell> it can be done with fewer dependencies
<DJones> AlanBell: Fresh install of 10.10, updated to Natty wants to install 328Mb, give me a sec & I'll pastebin the list
<AlanBell> bzr (to get it) and python-gtk2 python-gobject python-launchpad-integration python-distutils-extra desktopcouch
<AlanBell> the rest are bloat that quickly wants then
<DJones> Sorry, download 83Mb, but install 328Mb
<AlanBell> oh, that sounds about right then
<AlanBell> quite a lot of that is quickly bloat
<AlanBell> and things like glade
<DJones> http://pastebin.com/RsiWJWZj
<AlanBell> try installing my smaller list instead, how big is that?
<AlanBell> sudo apt-get install bzr python-gtk2 python-gobject python-launchpad-integration python-distutils-extra desktopcouch
<DJones> Thats download 4Mb, with 31Mb of disk space require for that line
<AlanBell> ok, a worthy difference, I will update the instructions
<DJones> Just installing that, presumably it then needs the bzr branch line as step 2
<popey> AlanBell: I suspect help -> report a problem only works for apps that are known on launchpad
<popey> known by apport that is
<AlanBell> popey: yeah, I think it might be done when it gets packaged by quickly and build by launchpad
<popey> yeah
<AlanBell> DJones: yeah that bit is the same, but instead of "quickly run" it would be ./bin/circleoffriends
<DJones> AlanBell: Do I need to be logged into launchpad/BZR "You have not informed bzr of your Launchpad ID, and you must do this to
<DJones> write to Launchpad or access private data.  See "bzr help launchpad-login".
<AlanBell> no, you don't need to do that
<AlanBell> unless you want to commit code back
<DJones> Branched 8 revision(s).             ok
<DJones> Up & running with the updated instructions
<Azelphur> Is it possible to open a dispute on amazon around a year after you've purchased something?
<Azelphur> They are not honoring the warranty
<AlanBell> try it and see
<Azelphur> think I can
<Azelphur> AlanBell: they keep ignoring my calls and emails, after a month of trying they sent me a 16GB Class 2 card in replacement for my 16GB Class 10
<DJones> AlanBell: Its certainly fast & I can see it just showing new tweets.  It wasn't showing any tweets while I had gwibber running, possibly there's a conflict/gwibber was interfering with the feed
<DJones> Just going to restart gwibber & see whether the same thing happens
<DJones> Doesn't seem to be a problem now
<Myrtti> the party that is in the same group with UKIP in EU parliament is gaining over 15% of votes in comparison to the election four years ago... people are planning an exodus abroad... wohey.
<popey> Azelphur: who made the device?
<popey> Azelphur: and was it actually amazon that sold it to you or a 3rd party via the marketplace?
<ali12341> the music store uses the U-O login right?
<popey> yes
<ali12341> oops i broke it
<ali12341> bug report time
<ali12341> well i went into banshee and tried to buy something
<ali12341> and it brought up a confusing windows saying to create an account
<ali12341> but i already have an ubuntu one account
<ali12341> so i cancelled it
<ali12341> but then banshee just gets stuck - looks like i'll have to quit and restart
<DJones> After reading so many complaints and dislikes about Natty & Unity I was expecting something awful, but having used it for a couple of days, I'm impressed with it.  Workspace switcher works brilliantly for me & how I'm using my machine
<ali12341> ubuntu-bug won't let me report a bug because "this is not a genuine ubuntu package"
<ali12341> but i can't report bugs against banshee unless i use their daily ppa
<gord> ubuntu-bug is for reporting bugs against ubuntu not specific projects :)
<gord> apport-bug is what i think? can't quite remember
<ali12341> is the banshee plugin in a separate package?
<ali12341> the UO plugin for banshee i mean
<gord> no idea
<popey> banshee-extension-ubuntuonemusicstore - Media Management and Playback application - U1MS extension
<popey> yes
<ali12341> apparently that's not a genuine ubuntu package either
<MartijnVdS> ali12341: it is in natty
<ali12341> oh it exists
<MartijnVdS> have 2.0.0-1ubuntu2 here
<ali12341> but the version i have is from banshee ppa
<ali12341> 2.0.0+git20110414.r1.b394d0d-0ubuntu1+maverick
<ali12341> is what i have
<MartijnVdS> daily build?
<ali12341> yes
<ali12341> banshee developers won't accept bug reports unless you jump through these pointless hoops
<gord> requiring people to use the latest software really isn't pointless =\
<ali12341> it is when the bug has always existed and is trivial to reproduce
<gord> what if its already fixed in the latest version?
<gord> what if it doesn't happen the same way?
<ali12341> well guess what... it isn't
<ali12341> it happens the exact same way it always has
<gord> yes but what if? this is why these pointless hoops exist
<ali12341> i'm pretty sure these pointless hoops exist so that the developers can just ask "does it still happen with the newest version?" every 6 months until i get bored and they close the bug
<gord> if you ship software to millions of people, some bugs are gonna get fixed in a newer version and people on older version are gonna keep reporting them, with good intent but if its already solved there is no point, its just extra work
<ali12341> the thing is, bugs don;t often fix themselves
<ali12341> if you don't know if it's fixed in the newest version, you should assume it isn't
<gord> its not an assumption, its a priority, if someone confirms something exists in the latest version, as a developer, i'm gonna pay attention to that bug, i *know* its a bug *now* - otherwise i don't know its current status
<ali12341> sometimes it looks an awful lot like absolutely nobody ever looks at bug reports apart from the people who ask "is this still a bug?"
<ali12341> and i very often feel like replying by saying"did you fix it? if not it's still a bug"
<directhex> on launchpad, that's definitely true.
<directhex> most bugs fall into a black hole
<ali12341> sure, this criticism mainly about launchpad
<ali12341> the only bugs that i have on launchpad that have ever got fixed, got fixed because i reported them upstream myself
<ali12341> i notice there is a bug about how launchpad can't really handle bugs against ppas yet...
<jacobw> i'm looking at book swap websites, does anyone have any reccomendations?
<Azelphur> popey: transcend made it, and it was a 3rd party seller
<Azelphur> popey: I checked with transcend the retailer is supposed to be responsible for warranty replacements
<popey> so you're contacting the 3rd party?
<Azelphur> yes, I contacted them via email and phone
<popey> and you've complained to amazon?
<Azelphur> I want to
<Azelphur> they have live chat open tomorrow so I'll probably prod the live chat people and ask what I should do about it
<Azelphur> popey: I sent them a email explaining it was broken, they emailed me back saying to send it to them. I sent it back, a month went by with no communication, so I sent them a email asking where my card was, this went ignored for 10 days, so I called them, they said they was shipping the card out today, I got the card and it's a class 2 instead of class 6
<Azelphur> I called them back and they said the guy I need to talk to wasn't in and they'd call me back, they didn't. I called them again and left a message on their answering machine, still no callback
<Azelphur> so now I'm looking to escalate :p
<popey> who are the supplier?
<Azelphur> popey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/seller/at-a-glance.html?ie=UTF8&seller=A388NQR4J28IX
<Azelphur> In other news, since I now have no cabled internet, I wonder how long before giffgaff gets mad at me, I've done 800MB in 24 hours on my mobile haha
<jacobw> according to their tos they don't like tethering
<Azelphur> jacobw: exactly.
<daftykins> giffgaff?
<popey> mobile phone network here
<daftykins> really o0
<daftykins> little startup?
<popey> basically a spin off of O2
<popey> no
<nick_> hi
<AlanBell> hi nick_
<daftykins> interesting
<nick_> does anyone have that problem with ubuntu where it hangs on shutdown?
<czajkowski> dear unity please stop randomly crashing today for no reason what so ever
<czajkowski> :(
<daftykins> maybe its plumping its' pillow
<czajkowski> unity and I are going to have a falling out one of these days
<AlanBell> nick_: yeah
<popey> czajkowski: 13:56:32 < ali12341> "use classic desktop"
<nick_> Yu have that problem, cuz i do and i have to do a hard shutdown
<daftykins> czajkowski: it wants more TLC in your relationship by the sounds
<AlanBell> well actually my laptop doesn't shut down from the gui, but sudo halt does shut it down and turns it off
<czajkowski> popey: possibly tbh
<HazRPG> is there a tool or daemon that can clear up some RAM on the fly?
<nick_> do u have the ubuntu logo and them balls go across screen?
<czajkowski> daftykins: I'm not feeling it's love by now, beta 2 should be a lot more propper
<HazRPG> I really don't like how things that use either Java or Flash seem to just hog my PC's RAM as if its all theirs
<AlanBell> no, shutdown just doesn't do much
<nick_> is everyone here using ubuntu?
<daftykins> HazRPG: it's Adobe making their presence known
<HazRPG> daftykins: true, but what about java?
<jacobw> many of us do nick_
<ali12341> nick_: there's one guy who uses fedora
<daftykins> oh java too
<daftykins> nasty.
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/p/TGO/   SPOONS!
<Azelphur> SHUN THE NONBELIEVER
<jacobw> there's even one guy who uses beos :p
<Azelphur> shuuuuuuuuuun :p
<nick_> lmao
<ali12341> yeah but not exclusively
<ali12341> i hope
<ali12341> popey: what's the difference between one.ubuntu.com and ubuntuone.com?
<daftykins> windows here
<daftykins> \o/
 * daftykins hides
<nick_> i hate windows
<ali12341> (other than the first one works and the latter doesn't?)
<popey> ali12341: ubuntuone.com is the public fileshare url
<daftykins> and ubuntu servers + desktop
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i'm typing from ubuntu via ubuntu right now
<ali12341> popey: ah i see
<Azelphur> ali12341: same, ubuntuone.com didn't work for me
<daftykins> via synergy \o/
<popey> its not supposed to Azelphur
<ali12341> popey: your link didn't load up at first, it just timed out
<popey> heh
<popey> nice infrastructure
<ali12341> then it turned out just to be a picture of some spoons
<popey> indeed
<popey> hence the comment
<nick_> anyone use opensuse?
<ali12341> i tried it once
<ali12341> didn't like it
<nick_> lol why?
<ali12341> suse specific system admin tools suck
<nick_> they are great
<ali12341> slow and unpredictable
<nick_> what other distros have u used?
<ali12341> you never know if it's going to work or crash out half way through
<Azelphur> I mostly use Ubuntu an Android, I've used Debian but don't use it for anything currently
<nick_> Ubuntu is ok
<nick_> can be a pain in the ass at times
<nick_> i dual boot it with vista
<Azelphur> so can anything :p
<Azelphur> lolvista :D
<Azelphur> now there's a pain in the ass
<nick_> its ok tbh xD
<Azelphur> 7 or xp is one thing, but you can't say ubuntu is a pain in the ass and be using vista
<Azelphur> it just doesn't compute :D
<nick_> vista works ok for me
<Azelphur> lol
<ali12341> nick_: slackware, red hat, suse, knoppix, gentoo, kubuntu, ubuntu, openwrt, lfs, buildroot, fedora, opensuse... in that order
<nick_> ive tried a few of them. Never heard of openwrt...
<ali12341> oh i forgot debian... but i never really got past the first five minutes with it
<nick_> i like setting up servers with linux mostly
<ali12341> oh yeah i used centos on servers too
<ali12341> but now i use ubuntu
<nick_> ive tried it as a live cd. is it any good?
<ali12341> which one lol?
<nick_> centos
<ali12341> it's rhel with the logos filed off
<nick_> yh i no its a duplicate
<ali12341> good for servers sure
<ali12341> dunno if i would use it for desktop
<nick_> why?
<ali12341> i prefer to use up to date software
<nick_> i tried arch, but couldnt get the network to work lol
<ali12341> of course if they stop developing gnome classic i'll have no reason to keep upgrading
<ali12341> then i could switch to centos when it eventually gets the "last" version
<HazRPG> seems the programs I like using often are bad bad offenders of memory leaks :(
<nick_> where you from?
<ali12341> the UK, funnily enough
<nick_> haha same
<popey> http://ubuntuone.com/p/OlP/
<popey> put your sunglasses on
<popey> and earplugs
<ali12341> WHY
<popey> and dont click that if you're epeleptic
 * popey is surfing u1
<ali12341> how so?
<ali12341> just typing random urls?
<popey> kinda :)
<nick_> http://sourmath.com
<popey> semi-random
<nick_> www.sourmath.com
<popey> dude
<popey> inappropriate
<nick_> lmfao
<nick_> my bad
<nick_> opensuse is great
<nick_> anyone know how to clone a partition, like windows and put in a virtual machine?
<popey> p2v
<ali12341> hmm downloading random shared files
<ali12341> from ubuntu one
<ali12341> i just got some dude's CV
<popey> ali12341: fun, isnt it :)
<ali12341> skills: autocad, microsoft office, matlab
<Azelphur> lol office :D
<ali12341> (word, excel *and* powerpoint!)
<Azelphur> indeed xD
<nick> hi
<Guest71737> kkk
<Guest71737> #whois nick
<Guest71737> #whois /nick
<AlanBell> hi Guest71737
<AlanBell> try /nick yourname
<AlanBell> oh, I see, you need to pick something more unique than "nick"
 * popey chuckles at http://ubuntuone.com/p/HDf/
<ali12341> does not work
<popey> avi file plays in ff4 here
<ali12341> trying to downlaod with wget, it renamed it to "index.html"
<popey> linedance_nastop_20100918_00009_720x405.avi
<ali12341> why does everything have to mangle urls?
<popey> -o that
<Azelphur> I've always wondered why wget doesn't manage to get the right file name half of the time
<Azelphur> when web browsers do
<ali12341> it's a gzip
<popey> yeah, which the browser will unzip on the fly
<ali12341> gunzip index.html :/
<popey> heh
<ali12341> this is somewhat less amusing than i expected it would be
<popey> heh
<popey> sorry :)
<popey> must try harder
<ali12341> i'm using an ordered approach: http://ubuntuone.com/p/aah/
<popey> heh
<popey> I'm using pwgen -nc -0 3 1
<AlanBell> you could set up a script to post them to twitpic
<ali12341> adjacent codes often seem to belong to same person
<ali12341> guess they are handed out sequentially
<popey> they are
<popey> i have currently got ~66GB of it
<popey> 385 mp3's
<ali12341> but why
<popey> fun
<ali12341> i know a website where you can get lots of mp3s
<popey> heh, I dont necessarily want them
<popey> just interested to see what people are sharing
<ali12341> why pwgen?
<popey> easy way to generate a 3 digit random
<ali12341> ok
<ali12341> it seems like the "gaps" must be files that were shared then deleted
<popey> yeah
<ali12341> so i can just share a file then work backwards from the UUID i get :)
<popey> heh
<ali12341> i mean UID
<ali12341> damn this guy sure likes metal detectors
<popey> nFt
<popey> is the latest I got
<Azelphur> Hmm, I read some interesting stuff on xda-developers about microsd o.O
<ali12341> don't believe anything you read on xda-developers
<Azelphur> apparently lower classes are better for phones, the higher class microsds suck at random i/o and have high sequential
<Azelphur> yea it did sound a bit dodgy xD
<ali12341> looooooooooool
<ali12341> seek time on flash media
<ali12341> wat
<Azelphur> ali12341: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12849512&postcount=12 :P
<daftykins> i always get a client to upgrade his micro sd's to class 6 from the included 2's
<daftykins> i'd benchmark both mine but i can't be bothered
<hamitron> evening
<AlanBell> !info python-sexy
<lubotu3> Package python-sexy does not exist in maverick
<AlanBell> !info python-sexy hardy
<lubotu3> python-sexy (source: sexy-python): python language bindings for libsexy. In component main, is optional. Version 0.1.9-1ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 13 kB, installed size 132 kB
<AlanBell> where did that go?
<hamitron> ubuntu gone unsexy
<hamitron> ;/
<HazRPG> Do many of you here listen/download stuff from Jamendo?
<AlanBell> or how else do I get links to turn up in a pango string
<dutchie> HazRPG: if i hear good stuff on music podcasts from there i will download it
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Hmm, I'm not sure... but if its python related, I'm sure the boys & girls at  #python might be able to help
<AlanBell> more of a gtk thing really
<ali12341> i think i have a jamendo gift card somewhere
<dutchie> AlanBell: did it turn into a gir type thing?
<AlanBell> libsexy2 is still there in the repos, but the python bindings are gone
<HazRPG> ali12341: Really? Is that to donate some Â£Â£Â£ to the artists? Cos I'm pretty sure Jamendo is free otherwise
<HazRPG> dutchie: cool, I'd recommend these guys: http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/26853
<HazRPG> dutchie: Take One Down is my fav song from that album
<ali12341> ska is one of the few kinds of music i cannot stand
<ali12341> the others are ye olde folk music
<ali12341> actually that's about it
<hamitron> AlanBell: is sexy-python updated?
<HazRPG> dutchie: or even "Helldorados", they're pretty good too
<hamitron> AlanBell: in lucid
<ali12341> ah the gift card was from magnatune not jamendo
<AlanBell> well no, the python package name would be swapped round so it is python-sexy not sexy-python
<AlanBell> it used to be in by default as compiz needed it apparently
<AlanBell> there are amusing bugs about updates to it being blocked by filters
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> why oh why?!?!
<hamitron> damn filtering :/
<AlanBell> along with this one . . .
<AlanBell> !info liboobs-1-5
<lubotu3> liboobs-1-5 (source: liboobs): GObject based interface to system-tools-backends - shared library. In component main, is optional. Version 2.31.91-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 63 kB, installed size 220 kB
<hamitron> could ban all sorts :/
<AlanBell> yeah, it was great diagnosing someone who could not update because python-sexy.deb was a 404 error for them
<AlanBell> right, well I can make a link in a gtklabel, but not in a gtkcellrenderertext
<ali12341> please do the sane thing and use Qt
<hamitron> what does unity use?
<ali12341> it depends which version you use
 * hamitron headbutts his desk
<Azelphur> ali12341: isn't qt in a bit of murky waters atm?
<hamitron> why?
<Azelphur> because microsoft just embrace and destroyed nokia?
<brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
<hamitron> released under lgpl init?
<Azelphur> true, but without commercial backing it might go sideways
<Azelphur> it's at it's sink or swim point XD
<AlanBell> and it always has been
<ali12341> Azelphur: yeah but Qt is relatively insulated from that, even though nokia own it
 * AlanBell pushes the bits that work to launchpad
<Azelphur> I see
<AlanBell> if anyone wants to get the links linkified, or rewrite the thing in Qt then it is at http://launchpad.net/circleoffriends
<ali12341> what does it do?
<hamitron> I guess Qt is not like something like an OS for devices.... the OS for devices needs the devices, where as Qt needs comps....
<ali12341> ok you lost me at microblogging
<AlanBell> simple twitter client using the streaming api
<ali12341> "do not want"
<ali12341> is it python?
<AlanBell> yes
<ali12341> does it use all annoying stuff like indicators and dbus?
<AlanBell> not really unless quickly is doing some of that for me
<ali12341> wait is this the thing you did a video of where it updates faster than it can redraw the screen?
<AlanBell> it does store some preferences in desktop couch
<AlanBell> yes
<ali12341> eeeeewwwwwwwwwwww
<ali12341> hmm well i guess i will look at it
<ali12341> but i wouldn't go near desktop couch
<AlanBell> but now it tweets and follows your own user stream rather than the utterly insane sample stream
<AlanBell> it only stores 4 strings in desktopcouch
<AlanBell> and it probably shouldn't
<ali12341> how do i check it out?
<AlanBell> they should go in the gnome keyring or something
<AlanBell> bzr branch lp:circleoffriends
<ali12341> # Do not touch unless you know what you're doing.
<AlanBell> yeah, there is a lot of crufty jonocode in there
<AlanBell> that is part of quickly not me
<ali12341> is that some quickly nonsense?
<ali12341> i know what i'm doing and i still don't want to touch this
<AlanBell> yeah
<ali12341> i don't even understand what this code is supposed to be
<AlanBell> that is why I am not too horrified at the prospect of starting again in Qt
 * hamitron hates working on others code
<AlanBell> took me ages to work out how to store a preference the quickly way
<popey> did jono start quickly?
<AlanBell> yes
<ali12341> i mean it says it's a the configuration file, but it doesn't contain any configuration, it looks suspeciously like code to me...
<ali12341> so KEY/SECRET is the stuff in desktop couch...
<AlanBell> popey: I might be wrong
<popey> I thought rick did
<dutchie> bzr branch lp:quickly && bzr blame
<AlanBell> rick/didrocks
<dutchie> etc
<AlanBell> ali12341: yeah, key and secret bit of the oauth conversation end up in desktopcouch
<AlanBell> the preferences thing is either rubbish, or I didn't understand it properly
<AlanBell> the application key and secret are also a preference, so if Twitter feel like revoking them then users can just go register a new app and change the keys
<popey> display seems messed up
<popey> its showing the wrong tweets for the wrong person
<ali12341> AlanBell: did you mean to leave in default values for consumer key/secret?
<AlanBell> ali12341: um, no
<AlanBell> sorry, yes
<AlanBell> silly terminology
<AlanBell> the consumer key/secret belong to the app
<AlanBell> the access key/secret belong to the user
<ali12341> wow i just got the past 10 minutes of messages in a huge burst :/
<AlanBell> popey: is that from a recent update or from having it running for ages?
<popey> only just started running it
<popey> bug 765035
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 765035 could not be found
<popey> bug  764035
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 764035 in Circle of Friends "Tweets attributed to wrong person" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764035
<popey> ahh, markup error
<AlanBell> ah ok, can I have the error message and tweet content that tripped it up
<popey> done
<ali12341> who can;t spell initialization?
<popey> its in the bug report
<AlanBell> gah, apostrophe
<ali12341> # your inialization code in finish_intializing
<AlanBell> ali12341: someone who isn't me
<ali12341> Put your initilization code in here
<AlanBell> ubuntu-bug quickly
<ali12341> finish_initalizing should be called
<ali12341> why does it have a file menu?
<AlanBell> dunno, it is there by default
<ali12341> hmm
<ali12341> who can i follow on twitter who tweets a lot of urls?
<popey> @boycottnovell
<popey> :)
<ali12341> no
<popey> @PlanBstudio
<ali12341> i need someone who tweets a url every minute
<popey> he's tweeting a lot of instagrams at the moment
<popey> oh, a spammer
<ali12341> yeah basically
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/ubuntubugs
<ali12341> perfect
<ali12341> and completely useless.. who could possibly follow that?
<ali12341> actually that's somewhat less than i expected
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/scobleizer
<popey> he tweets fast enough I suspect
<ali12341> AlanBell: do you have a testing strategy?
<ali12341> other than "wait for someone to tweet something"
<AlanBell> point it at the sample stream
<ali12341> what do i need to change?
<AlanBell> or set up a testing user
<AlanBell> hang on, I will see if I can do it on mine
<ali12341> ok i think i got it
<popey> @bbcnews is quite active
<ali12341> is the user stream get or post?
<AlanBell> get I think
<AlanBell> ok, to point it at the sample stream comment out the userstream bits around line 290 and put
<AlanBell>         stream=UserStream(self.auth,listener,timeout=None, secure=True)
<AlanBell> stream.sample()
<AlanBell> sorry
<AlanBell>         stream=Stream(self.auth,listener,timeout=None)
<ali12341> yeah i got it... got connection refused though
<AlanBell> did you remove the secure=True bit?
<AlanBell> because the sample stream isn't https
<ali12341> ah no, that will be it
<ali12341> there is goes
<ali12341> does the list just keep growing forever?
<AlanBell> until it crashes, yes
<ali12341> natch
<ali12341> fwiw i would have used a html area instead of a listview, and done it with the DOM
<AlanBell> that would work too
<AlanBell> I thought it would be fun to get threaded stuff working with the treeview
<ali12341> perhaps
<Pendulum> hiya
<ali12341> but then how would you find relies in the hueg list?
<AlanBell> Pendulum \o/
<AlanBell> well I was thinking threaded on the replies tab
<ali12341> besides you can still insert anywhere you like in the DOM
<ali12341> and it's probably easier than gtk wrangling
<ali12341> oh it crashed
<ali12341> GError: GIF image was truncated or incomplete.
<ali12341> uncaught exception
<ali12341> another benefit of using html is you don't have to deal with fetching all this stuff manually
<AlanBell> you might want to comment out the notification stuff around line 226 if following the sample stream
<ali12341> i don't use notifications
<ali12341> so i presume it's all going to /dev/null
<AlanBell> yeah, I understand the benefits of using html, but gwibber does it so badly I wanted to try the clean gtk way
<ali12341> either way i'm not seeing it
<ali12341> heh, clean gtk...
<AlanBell> should be more accessible to orca as well as a gtk widget
<AlanBell> and I managed to beat the treeview into shape with the scrolling
<ali12341> yeah...
<AlanBell> so if you are at the top you see a moving stream of stuff, if you scroll down it stays where you are
<ali12341> i was just reading that bit
<ali12341> why does twitter scroll backwards btw?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-09
<hamitron> so sort of excited
 * BigRedS wonders if dogmatic69 has ever seen a mac ;)
<dogmatic69> I dont know if its my SSD, but its lightning quick
<BigRedS> I used one last weekend. It wasn't a lot like Unity :)
<dogmatic69> its close enough, closer than 10.10
<dogmatic69> anyone see the electron microscope images on reddit?
<dogmatic69> pretty cool http://egotvonline.com/2012/03/13/25-everyday-objects-under-an-electron-microscope/
<dogmatic69> the maggot is NSFL
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Yeh saw those - been a bit heavily coloured for my liking, but still neat - I like micrographs
<dogmatic69> ye, the colouring is a bit off. almost CG like
<dogmatic69> figured out with screen, you can actually ctrl+a [ then use the scroll wheel, no need for page up/donw
<dogmatic69> *down
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: oh!
<BigRedS> neat
<BigRedS> ta!
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> its just like scrolling in man etc
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<dogmatic69> git diff those type of scrolling
<dogmatic69> I would like to have scrolling by default and the ctrl+a [ to do the command scroll, that would be nice
<jacobw> good morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dwatkins> mornin
<mumper> Moin
 * dwatkins hands mumper a spetzi
<mumper> Oh boy - a spetzi - just what I wanted to repair my shed!
<SuperEngineer> o/
<daubers> morning
<SuperEngineer> Have just sent a report of the following to the mailing list - damn rumour mongers are at it already!
<SuperEngineer> http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2012-04-09-002-41-SC-UB
<daubers> A page that never connects?
<SuperEngineer> daubers, hmmm -trying it now
<SuperEngineer> yup - it does now seem to having trouble - here's the page the "headline" story links to http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/04/04/should-you-be-worried-about-ubuntu-desktops-privacy-settings/
<daubers> Is this the zeitgeist privacy settings thing?
<daubers> urgh, more FUD nothing to see here, move along
<SuperEngineer>  Doesn't mention it specifically - just the Privacy settings option but...."the part that needs to be explained. Is the collected âanonymous informationâ limited to those related to crashed programs or does the system send all recorded activity from the other tabs to Canonicalâs servers?"
<daubers> Sipl
<daubers> simple answer.... grab the source?
<daubers> SuperEngineer: It'll just be crash reports. The other tabs relate to zeitgeist
<SuperEngineer> daubers, it's the damn rumour mongering that's getting me irked ;)
<gord> anything that gets sent in a crash report to lp gets made private fwiw. only project maintainers and a few highly privileged users can see it. they check and make sure there is no private information before making the bug public
<daubers> SuperEngineer: Then don't help them by passing it around
 * SuperEngineer giggles & accepts... fair comment!
<daubers> SuperEngineer: You could just google around http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Ubuntu-12-04-to-ship-with-enhanced-privacy-controls-1468182.html
<daubers> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/privacy-controls-minor-ui-tweaks-land-in-ubuntu-12-04/
<daubers> SuperEngineer: Even the EFF liked it....
<SuperEngineer> yeh but they're Electronic - I'm super human
<mattt> any python experts here?  :P
<daubers> define: expert?
<mattt> need a hand w/ optparse (yes, i'm using an older version of python) :)
<daubers> pass
<SuperEngineer> daubers, expert: "x" is an unknown quantity, "spurt" is simply a drip under pressure
<mattt> daubers: ah well, thanks anyway :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<dwatkins> hiya bigcalm
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> ello brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Potton in 2012, a video drivearound - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/04/09/potton-in-2012-a-video-drivearound
<popey> bug 967056
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 967056 in activity-log-manager (Ubuntu) "The privacy section should be renamed, oneiric users think confidential data is sent because there is no option to inhibit this" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/967056
<mgdm> This Cinnamon desktop thing is quite nice
<mgdm> (I may have been banging on about it before)
<popey> heh
<BigRedS> I've a machine with an initrd that doesn't have ext in it somehow. Should I be able to boot up a LiveCD, mkinitrd, then copy that onto the disk and boot with that?
<BigRedS> I know initrds are way more fragile than they should be, but I'm hoping that if I get the kernel version right there's not a lot else to be wrong?
<jacobw> what about kernel options, like ext?
<jacobw> i think if its the same kernel, the initrd will be the same
<jacobw> how did the machine come to have an initrd without ext?!
<jacobw> afternoon hamitron
<hamitron> hi :)
<BigRedS> jacobw: I'm not entirely sure, I just got given it to fix :)
<BigRedS> ext kernel option?
<jacobw> option to build ext support
<BigRedS> as an argument on the command line?
<currymonster> Can anybody recomend a itunes replacement, that will work with ipods?
<Azelphur> currymonster: afaik rythmbox does
<currymonster> Azelphur: Thanks
<cocoa117> currymonster, nothing can replace it if you still want to buy music from iTunes, just do RemoteApp with it, so you keep everything
<cocoa117> even play the music out of it
<Myrtti> that's interesting, the latest RC vanilla kernel labeled on the website as 64-bit shows up as 32-bit in package management
<czajkowski> aloha
<currymonster> cocoa117: thanks, it's just the music sync feature im after
<currymonster> remote app?
<cocoa117> currymonster, if it's the sync you are after then that's fine. iTunes wasn't great on them
<currymonster> thanks again
<bigcalm> Can anybody think of a web interface for setting up email address forwarding? My father is part of a club that has a domain and wants to set up address that forward for council roles.
<bigcalm> I can set it up at a domain registrar level, but I'd rather I wasn't a dependency
<penguin42> what mail system are you running?
<bigcalm> None
<bigcalm> I may have to set up the MX, that's ok
<bigcalm> That's an idea. Become the MX and write an interface to manage forwarding
<penguin42> yeh, or some ISPs have their own domain setup like that
<bigcalm> If there's a simple system already out there, all the better
<AlanBell> evening all
<bigcalm> Hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> everyone get sufficient eggs?
<jacobw> are they cheap yet?
<jacobw> i don't understand this easter stuff :(
<avelldiroll> bigcalm: not sure about what you are searching for exactly ... but phamm might suit your needs
<OmNomDePlume> Emile "The Punisher" Heskey is on the pitch.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] Sign your life away - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/04/09/sign-your-life-away/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=sign-your-life-away
<majster-pl> Hi
<popey> hello
<dogmatic69> o/
<majster-pl> Could anyone tell me if I install Ubuntu 12.04 beta 2 and keep updating the system would it finely become Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on 26.04.2012 ?? or I will need to download new iso and install it again ?
<AlanBell> it will be the same
<mgdm> No, just keep doing the updates
<majster-pl> thank you :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments Localized Documentation Update - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/09/ubuntu-accomplishments-localized-documentation-update/
<ali1234> what you say "it will be the same"
<ali1234> *when you say
<ali1234> ... you actually mean "it is supposed to be the same"
<ali1234> but in reality there is every chance that an upgrade will break the system basically until 12.04.1 comes out
<ali1234> see this picture http://s3.amazonaws.com/instagram-static/images/home/screenshot1.png
<ali1234> it really looks like the guy in the middle is handing the other two cigarettes
<ali1234> and they are like "wow cigarettes"
<dwatkins> or amazing chalk
<ali1234> it just reminds me of terrible 80s anti smoking ads with the creepy guy giving kids cigarettes
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6tV4i5Wwn8&feature=player_detailpage#t=30s
<ali1234> like that ^
<kitsos> Hello guys i just installed warcraft via wine and it works well but i want to find a path "/maps/download" how can i find it?
<kitsos> no one?
<phezo> Hey
 * popey tickles CrimsonSoul 
<CrimsonSoul> Howdy Mr Popey
<dwatkins> ali1234: wow, I remember those - shame I couldn't understand them at the time
<phezo> I just moved to the UK
<dwatkins> welcome to the isles, phezo :) whereabouts are you?
<phezo> in london
<phezo> where are you?
 * dwatkins is in Edinburgh
<dwatkins> I hear it's nice down there this time of year, although the seasons seem to be in the process of swapping over between Scotland and England at the moment.
<dwatkins> We had snow here last year, and this year it's been colder down south than it has here in most of Scotland, I think.
<phezo> London seems quite interesting, still adjusting.
<Myrtti> meh, I don't understand launchpad sometimes
<Myrtti> or the bots
<popey> wassup Myrtti ?
<Myrtti> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/927284
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 927284 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG: Bad page map in process firefox pte:0f544065 pmd:216e2067" [High,Incomplete]
<Myrtti> I'm trying to be a good Precise tester and file bugs and test stuff but sometimes it all just goes over my understanding
<popey> yeah, looks like using the mainline one from the kernel ppa would be good to test
<Myrtti> yeah, I'm running it now I think
<Myrtti> but I don't know how I produced the previous kerneloops so I don't know how to test if this isn't affected
<ali1234> heh, kernel developers
<gordonjcp> what's the current favourite for running virtual machines in Ubuntu?
<ali1234> it depends you want to run as guest
<ali1234> +what
<gordonjcp> a variety of different things
<ali1234> virtuabox is best all rounder
<gordonjcp> hm, I had a look at that
<gordonjcp> I don't fancy waiting for all 2TB of the Qt libraries to download
<gordonjcp> and it looks too confusing and difficult
<popey> its probably the most straightforward, best documented, most well supported
<gordonjcp> popey: but it seems to require a GUI
<popey> "not having a GUI" wasn't in your original list of requirements
<gordonjcp> well, that was pretty much a given
<popey> http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch07.html
<gordonjcp> the less GUI-based crap I have to deal with the better
<popey> not really
<popey> heh, ok
<popey> you can run it headless
<popey> anyway, bed
<popey> nn
<gordonjcp> since, y'know, I can't actually see them
<ali1234> if you don't already have Qt installed you're an idiot
<ali1234> i mean what are you using instead for GUI development?
<ali1234> Tkinter? lol
<gordonjcp> I avoid GUIs because they don't make sense to me
<ali1234> gtk? LOOOOOOOOOOOL
<gordonjcp> ali1234: if you're not going to be helpful, shut up
<ali1234> oh, well you won't want virtualbox then
<ali1234> because all of the power of virtualbox is that it is really easy to set up using the GUI
<ali1234> if you want something totally command line driven, you should try kvm instead
<ali1234> it's much harder to use and it can't really do anything that virtualbox can't do, but hey, at least nobody else will be able to understand anything you make with it
<gordonjcp> ghod Qt is a mess
<ali1234> try qemu-kvm, it has no gui at all except for the guest display window
<ali1234> maybe you can do what you need the VBoxHeadless
<ali1234> i think that can only start and stop vms though, mainly
<ali1234> you could write the machine configuration by hand
<ali1234> but it uses XML and i'm guessing you hate that too
<hamitron> anyone know some good software that can automatically load playlists of music from the web browser. maybe integrated into a browser
<hamitron> with skip track and clear queue buttons
<hamitron> basically an mp3 player with FIFO style queue, with basic controls
<hamitron> ;)
<user_> hi there
<user_> I'm new to irc and new to ubuntu commands - can anyone help with an iphone?
<popey> user_: depends on the question
<agoodm> join #ubuntu+1
<hamitron> who?
<popey> user_: you can ask your question in here rather than im PM
<agoodm> I have a strange issue :-/ at boot something is causing a massive amount of swapping and eventually dieing
<agoodm> once my system boots and I log on its 4 minutes of solid hdd activity before I can move my mouse
 * agoodm ask this in the ubuntu full channel doh
<hamitron> agoodm, how much memory you have?
<agoodm> 4 gig
<agoodm> it was fine until yesterday
<hamitron> just checking ;)
<agoodm> I looked in top and typed capital M to sort by ram usage and whatever the culprit is has already died
<dogmatic69> agoodm: 10.10?
<agoodm> 12.04
<agoodm> fully updated
<hamitron> tried a fresh user?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-10
<agoodm> (I need 12.04 for track pad to work correctly and some other stuff)
<agoodm> not yet... I could really do with fixing this one if that makes any sense though
<dogmatic69> agoodm: even from power off, or is it from suspend / hibernate?
<hamitron> I'd create a 2nd home directory, then tweak /etc/passwd to test
<agoodm> I havent tried from suspend yet
<dogmatic69> no, I figure something funny was saved in your session after suspend.
<dogmatic69> see what is in startups. you can click the power button top right and 'startup applications'
<agoodm> startup applications has 6 apps ive added
<agoodm> the two most recent ive unchecked 'just in case'
<dogmatic69> maybe remove them one by one and see
<dogmatic69> or remove all and add them one by one
<agoodm> Just to update the kind folks that were helping me earlier;
<agoodm> I managed to track down the application that was screwing up my startup
<agoodm> the method I used may be useful for other people in the future...
<agoodm> I added gnome-terminal -x top to the startup applications
<agoodm> then rebooted
<agoodm> when my machine rebooted and I logged in obviously a terminal with top opened right up as it was grinding to a halt, the application that was frozen at the top of the list was skype, after 3 minutes of unresponsiveness I noticed skype was closed
<agoodm> I completely tested by unckecking skype from startup; and all was OK
<agoodm> the fix was to uninstall skype completely and reinstall it
<agoodm> very weird issue!!!
<mattt> morning
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Afternoon czajkowski
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning all
<dwatkins> hiya
<AlanBell> morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hi folks, we have snow in Edinburgh
<dwatkins> looks like it's just us, though.
<Gary> we have nice sun here in essex
<mumper> moin
<dwatkins> moin moin, mumper
<mumper> dwatkins: Hi
<MartijnVdS> All we get is rain :(
<brobostigon> we have bright sun here.
<brobostigon> scattered clouds.
<dwatkins> that's it for snow here, I reckon, just a bit wet outside now.
<gord> stop talking about snow, if we just ignore the cold weather it will go away and we can go back to getting to summer
<MartijnVdS> ooh.. I see blue outside!
<MartijnVdS> between the clouds!
<dwatkins> not in the next week or so according to http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Edinburgh/long.html
<MartijnVdS> http://buienradar.nl/weerbericht_Nederland_komende_5_tot_9_dagen.aspx?bron=3 \o/
<MartijnVdS> snow predicted for next Saturday
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> but also 10Â°C.. it's climate change gone wild
<dwatkins> If I zoom in on those characters I see boxes wioth 'Kannada' and '0C80 0CFF'
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/%E0%B2%A0%E0%B2%A0-look-of-disapproval
<dwatkins> The seasons are also shifting, scarily. It was bad enough that the south of England nicked our weather recently ;)
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<bigcalm> Clock work orange
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I suspected that was what you meant ;)
<gord> you guys are the worst, you are going to anger the weather gods, who are already constantly pretty angry at the uk anyway
<MartijnVdS> (â¯Â°â¡Â°)â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
 * dwatkins goes to find his metal armour so he can hike up Arthur's Seat and shout insults at the weather dieties
<dwatkins> deities, perhaps
<MartijnVdS> Deities schmeities
<shauno> You'd think someone living below sea level would have a little bit more respect for the rain gods
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS is spongebob squarepants? ;) (I know, he lives inside a reclaimed area fo the sea)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: We stole that land from the sea gods anyway.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ...
<dwatkins> ah, so you've already angered Poseidon...
<dwatkins> Today I copied and pasted a facebook status meme... http://hastebin.com/raw/coyusabohu
<dwatkins> I don't normally do this, but I thought it was quite an amusing response to the constant copying and pasting of such things.
<MartijnVdS> it's like "I'm a signature virus"
<dwatkins> yes, at least it's not as bad as the 'please manually delete your data' virus.
<MartijnVdS> honor system viruses 8-)
<bigcalm> Bacon o/
 * popey had bacon
<brobostigon> :)
 * dwatkins wants bacon now
 * brobostigon has bacon in the fridge,
 * dwatkins will be obtaining some on the way home
<bigcalm> Your parcel is on the vehicle for delivery, due between 10:55 - 11:55
<popey> hehe
 * bigcalm stares out of the window
<popey> "Out for delivery - 10 April 2012 7:58:33 "
 * popey stares out his window too
<bigcalm> What goodies have you ordered?
<bigcalm> Or is this your replacement ipad?
<popey> no, ipad arrived last week
<bigcalm> Was it a 1 or 3?
<popey> 1
<bigcalm> Ah well :)
<popey> like for like
<popey> good enough for me âº
<popey> today xbox + kinect is arriving
<bigcalm> Ooo
<bigcalm> Which is cheaper than having the old xbox repaired?
<dwatkins> popey: did you get the Star Wars one?
<popey> no
<dwatkins> I treated myself, it makes R2D2 sounds when you open the disc tray :D
<bigcalm> How sweet
<gord> that star wars kinect game should be burnt, we, as humanity should refuse its inclusion to our culture
<bigcalm> dwatkins: I bet it gets old quickly
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I could describe the number of R2D2 related things I have, that might give you an idea how unlikely that is ;)
<popey> i dont actually rate star wars
<popey> yay, just "found" another HP microserver in the garage âº
<dwatkins> popey has a magical garage which spawns computer hardware.
<popey> i do
<davmor2> morning all
 * oimon wonders if there is possibly an uglier gui than calibre
<gordonjcp> oimon: xastir
<oimon> gordonjcp, motif style apps are indeed ugly
<bigcalm> I can has microserver!
<bigcalm> It looks so cute
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yay! now to find out how you do setting it up Muhahahahahahahaha
 * popey has USB stick with 12.04 server alternate on it
<bigcalm> You make it sound like it's a bad thing
<bigcalm> I have a USB DVD drive if need be, but I also have 12.04 on a USB stick
<gord> should really start moving my various installs over to 12.04 soon, i was stupid and didn't install the previous lts, lots of downloading to do
<diplo> heh gord same here :)
 * diplo wants another 2 x 2 tb drives but really can't afford it yet
<gord> in my defence, it was mostly to get at better alsas so i could get proper hdmi audio support on my revos
<diplo> heh, my revo is still on 9.04/10, can't remember which
<diplo> Was waiting for 12 to update
<dogmatic69> I have some folders mounted over the network with sshfs and when clicking to open something it always pops up saying run in terminal / open etc.
<dogmatic69> even for images or txt files
<dogmatic69> how can I get it to just open?
<oimon> dogmatic69, i don't have that problem (browsing with nautilus)
<dogmatic69> I am using nautilus too
<oimon> (browsing remote ssh )
<bigcalm> Oh, that's handy
<bigcalm> Checked my account and I've been paid already
<bigcalm> Same day that my server arrived
<oimon> looks like i have the worlds slowest usb stick
<oimon> 1mb/s
<AlanBell> both new chickens are laying already \o/
<diplo> Quite happy already then AlanBell
<diplo> from my little knowledge
<diplo> Got to be settled in first normally ?
<AlanBell> they seem quite keen to provide me with yummy eggs
<diplo> :)
<bigcalm> AlanBell: ex-PoW chickens?
<diplo> Anyone got any idea if you can tell if a CentOS server is awaiting a reboot ? Or ubuntu, I'm guessing htey do it the same way
<bigcalm> Log in as an admin or root and it might tell you along with the motd?
<popey>  /var/run/reboot-required
<popey> on ubuntu
<diplo> Cheers popey
<diplo> nah nowt there
<diplo> Was for bigcalm the second one :)
<diplo> Still looking in /var/run, it's not the end of the world anyhoo :)
 * bigcalm puts on some REM
<AlanBell> bigcalm: no, I thought about ex-pow types, but they are a bit harder to introduce to others, you kind of need two pens or they get beaten up
<BigRedS> diplo: compare uname with menu.lst?
<diplo> Worth a try thanks
<bigcalm> AlanBell: :(
<bigcalm> Is it lunch time?
<Neoti> can anyone help with this zoneminder problem :  i have a Grandstream GXV3601_HD IP Cam, and trying to get it to work with Zoneminder, i have added it as a remote/monitor with the url as http://192.168.201.48/goform/stream?cmd=get&channel=0, which i got from Grandstream, if i put this in a webbrowser i see the stream as mjpeg, if i put the stream in zoneminder i get nothing, also if i run eithereal at the same time i dont s
<bigcalm> I've been paid, might sneak in a sub
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i've been paid, might sneak in a laptop for the misses :s  not that i know what type to get here lol
<bigcalm> Heh
<davmor2> bigcalm: no I was thinking more of the do you go 12.04 or 10.04, if you go 12.04 do you use some of the funky new tools to make it work or do you stick with manual config of config files etc
<bigcalm> I just bought myself a server, need to calm down on spending now ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owlde mucka 'ow am ya
<bigcalm> davmor2: are there known hardware issues?
<MooDoo> davmor2: cracking, deciding on a lappy to get the misses.
<bigcalm> I guess I could install 10.04 and then upgrade to 12.04 next month
<popey> thinkpad, no other laptop exists
<popey> bigcalm: i am putting 12.04 on my microserver right now
<bigcalm> But that seems like wasted effort to me
<popey> +1
<bigcalm> popey: oo, you rebel
<popey> i have nothing left <12.04 other than my vps
<MooDoo> popey: ooo quite cheap at the moment too
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it's just the decisions you have to make
<bigcalm> MooDoo: I just bought this: http://www.serversplus.com/servers/tower_servers/hp_tower_servers/658553-421
<bigcalm> MooDoo: 100 quid cashback. So will end up having paid about 150 quid
<MooDoo> bigcalm: cool, no screen and a bit big for my misses knee ;) lol
<bigcalm> Oh, you were referring to popey talking about laptops
<bigcalm> I shall go back to sleep
<MooDoo> bigcalm: :)  might have to get one myself though lol
<oimon> chromium doesn't work on my eee  pc :(
<bigcalm> I've got one to replace my Revo
<bigcalm> The Revo will then go to my parents to replace their Viglen MPC-L
<bigcalm> Anybody want 2 PoS Viglen MPC-L?
<oimon> now someone needs to mention joggler
<gord> no but i'll take the revo ;)
<bigcalm> oimon: I have one on my bedside table
<bigcalm> gord: go fish :P
<gord> i'm fully willing to accept any and all revos going!
<bigcalm> oimon: the joggler is waiting for a useable Android ISO
<gord> android on intel with pulsebo graphics, fun times
<bigcalm> Revo makes me think of Reavers from Firefly
<oimon> makes think of psion revo
<oimon> ahhh
<oimon> wow, seen this helicopter fail? http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp0poa_helicopter-shakes-itself-apart-on-landing-in-brazil_news?fb_action_ids=10151503105660187&fb_action_types=video.watches&fb_source=other_multiline&error_reason=user_denied&error=access_denied&error_description=The+user+denied+your+request.#_=_
<gord> i don't think you need like, 90% of that url
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> sorry
<oimon> too much effort
 * bigcalm finds lunch before he throws up :S
<bigcalm> Damn this stress
<davmor2> bigcalm: what stress :P
<bigcalm> 2 4 day weeks in a row
<davmor2> bigcalm: you could of done work on you're day off then it would of been 2 5 day weeks
<bigcalm> davmor2: I did work every day of the 4 day weekend
<bigcalm> I will sleep better once this project is live
<davmor2> bigcalm: so why are you complaining ;)
<davmor2> popey: for the next few days can you use update manager for updates please and let me know out of those times how often you see the window with the progress bar in it, trying to find out if it is just me or not
<gord> new ubuntu wallpapers are nice, i should really submit a bunch of pictures of my cat every time they do these things
<popey> davmor2: sure
<davmor2> popey: ta
<popey> which dialog though?
<popey> oooh, crash
<popey> if i click "check" I get a dialog
<bigcalm> I really need jockey to be fixed. My laptop can't cope with Minecraft on the generic ATI driver
<davmor2> popey: reported it
<popey> i am applying updates, i see a dialog with a progress bar
<popey> whats the problem?
<davmor2> popey: I don't always,  I'm guessing it is a race condition but it's hard to replicate and might just be my system,  I see the progress bar in the icon on the launcher just not the dialog window
<davmor2> popey: It's more just confirmation that it's my system or not
<davmor2> popey: also bug #977956 I'm guessing for your crash
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 977956 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with SIGSEGV in pkgCache::VerIterator::TranslatedDescription()" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/977956
<gordonjcp> HP microserver users, can you remember (or for that matter can you check) if it has a serial port or not?
 * popey looks at the one on his desk
<dwatkins> http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/13716_na/13716_na.HTML gordonjcp?
<popey> nope
<dwatkins> time for a USB serial adapter, I assume
<popey> or pcie card
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: I haven't got web access
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: ah ok
 * gordonjcp is at work which has the most astonishingly broken internet connection
<dwatkins> can you not even ssh -D to proxy to something, gordonjcp?
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: not really, since it's not actually passing any traffic
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: I imagine it'll come back at some point, but at the moment I have a whopping 1200bps to play with
<gordonjcp> I can't believe a communications company fails this hard at communications
<dogmatic69> random bug
<dogmatic69> all my nautalis windows have some how moved half off the top of the screen
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: I know the feeling, I work for a software company ;)
<mattt> love the timing of this hose pipe ban
<dwatkins> haa, a hose pipe ban? It's been tipping it down all day here.
<bigcalm> Sadly it doesn't work like that :)
<bigcalm> Rain on the day of the ban is only useful if you have a water butt
<MooDoo> dwatkins: wrong type of rain.
<dwatkins> I'll go for a hike to check we have plenty of water in the reservoirs.
<mattt> i know this rain isn't substantial :)
<mattt> but the timing was funny, felt like they just announced it then the weather turned
<dwatkins> I've heard many people visiting the UK say that they think it rains all the time here.
<mattt> it does up north, no?  :)
<dwatkins> heh, I thought it rained all the time in Wales - when I last drove west across the Severn Bridge, it started raining the second we finished crossing it :)
<MooDoo> mattt: sorry, can't hear you as the rain is hitting the window
<gordonjcp> London has less rainfall than Rome, apparently
<BigRedS> when I worked inthe bike shop we had all sorts of stats about london rainfall to help with the prostelytising
<BigRedS> I think it rains an awful lot more than the statistics suggest
<awilkins> I don't think "inches of" matter much compared to "total fraction of normal travelling time experiencing some manner of precipitation"
<dwatkins> I think statistics can be interpretted in many ways ;)
<BigRedS> awilkins: IIRC, something like 14 commutes a year are rained on
<BigRedS> the stats were all that sort of thing
<awilkins> Only 14, blimey
<BigRedS> yeah, and we did end up conceding that it was basically right
<awilkins> Mind, I live Oop North
<BigRedS> for a start, all of us only ever cycled anywhere, and one of us bothered to own a jacket
<dwatkins> awilkins: North of England, or North of Hadrian's Wall? ;)
<BigRedS> well, a waterproof one
<awilkins> dwatkins, Wigan, commuting to Leeds
<oimon> can someone explain instagram to me: do you have to have the app to browse someones photos?
<awilkins> Fortunately my waiting time at Stalybridge station is limited to once a day
<MooDoo> oimon: yes i think you do, unless they are using a wordpress or similar script to dislpay the images.
<dwatkins> awilkins: ah I see, I cycle to work in Edinburgh ;)
<awilkins> Stalybridge is at a high altitude and is frequently quite cold / snowy / windy
<dwatkins> oimon: I don't think so, it's just an easy way to put photos on facebook and add effects that make them look like they were taken in the 70s
<oimon> i think flickr are complete numpties for missing a trick on that. all they had to do was create an app with additional filters. the infrastructure for sharing photos already existed, and so did userbase
<MooDoo> flickr are getting rid of staff as well
<oimon> dwatkins, is that because iphone had crap filter effects?
<shauno> flickr's missed a *lot* of tricks since yahoo took them over.  it feels like it's been left to rot
<oimon> if flickr released an app like taht even now, i'd use it
<MooDoo> smugmug need one too
<oimon> i can only wonder what their staff are actually doing
<dwatkins> oimon: for 'crap' read 'none' ;)
<gord> i think flickr are more interested in the more professional side, not on the 8 million crappy phone pictures of someones party side
<oimon> gord, that seems to be worth $1billion to facebook somehow
<gordonjcp> right, sod this
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: you're an OpenERP-er, aren't you?
<gord> sure, but thats because the facebook demographic is people who want to look at 8  million crappy phone pictures of someones party. flickr's demographic is more about looking at good photographs, i doubt they want the flood of terrible phone pictures they would get with something like that
<gordonjcp> what would be a rough ballpark price for getting someone in to set up an OpenERP system for a smallish company, say a dozen employees or so?
<gordonjcp> setup and training, ideally
<AlanBell> hi gordonjcp
<AlanBell> depends a bit on what they do
<gordonjcp> let's assume it's a small company that sells radios and radio systems, with sales from about a tenner up to maybe 30 grand
<oimon> gord, you make it sound like flick have a plan/clue
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: so a bit of stock management and accountancy stuff, but not manufacturing
<gordonjcp> exactly
<gordonjcp> any "manufacturing" would be one-off knocking up of wee custom boxes for interfacing things, rather than large-scale production
<AlanBell> any international stuff (import/export/customs/shipping)
<gordonjcp> not really, no
<gordonjcp> or, "chance would be a fine thing..."
<popey> bigcalm: switched 160GB HDD for 120GB SSD in my HP Microserver :D
<popey> SSD CRAZY!
<MooDoo> SSD rocks.
<Seeker`> SSD \o/
<Seeker`> I need to put one in my mythfrontend
<popey> my xbmc frontend has one too
<Seeker`> my desktop and my backend have them
<Seeker`> just not upgraded my frontend in a while
<gord> is there much need for an ssd in an xbmc frontend?
<oimon> make backups :P SSD seem to die horribly and die young
<bigcalm> popey: haven't decided if my Microserver is to get an SSD or not
<AlanBell> I am tempted to get either an SSD or a hybrid for my laptop
<AlanBell> what do you think of this? http://www.ebuyer.com/321969-momentus-xt-750gb-sata-2-5in-7200rpm-hybrid-8gb-ssd-in-st750lx003
<bigcalm> I was going to get an SSD for the revo when 12.04 came out. But I've spent my money getting a Microserver :D
<Seeker`> gord: you can get away with a very small SSD, which is about the same price as a x00GB HDD
<bigcalm> And now I need 2 new front tyers!
<popey> bug 978032
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 978032 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "partitioning step doesn't have "discard" as a selectable mount option" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978032
<davmor2> popey: you are back in the era of the psion aren't you with your ssd fetish
<gord> Seeker`, sure, if you are building from scratch
<popey> psion?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I can point you to a cheap but good tyre place in wolvo if that helps
<popey> AlanBell: do you need 750GB in your laptop?
<popey> he says with only 11GB free in his
<davmor2> popey: http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/psion/psion5_big.jpg
<AlanBell> popey: I appear to have used 242GB
<bigcalm> davmor2: ta, but tyers are just expensive for my car
<davmor2> popey: it had software carts that were called ssd long before it was cool :)
<popey> AlanBell: http://www.ebuyer.com/260707-ocz-240gb-vertex-3-ssd-2-5-sata-iii-6gb-s-read-550mb-s-write-520mb-s-vtx3-25sat3-240g
<popey> thats what's in my laptop
<mgdm> Blimey
<mgdm> that's more than I paid for my laptop
<popey> yeah, its not cheap
<popey> stupid fast though âº
<gord> wanted to get an ssd for the laptop, but decided to fund a holiday later in the year instead :(
<gord> an x220 just isn't complete without an ssd
<bigcalm> popey: you bought that?
<bigcalm> Oh my
<popey> ya
<bigcalm> popey: rounds are on mr money bags come the 14th July
<bigcalm> :P
<popey> :p
<popey> technically my company bought it :p
<bigcalm> Yay no vat
<dwatkins> I looked at SSDs, then bought a hybrid disk that's bigger ;)
<popey> i cant recall where but I saw some horror stories about those hybrids which put me off
<AlanBell> I am a bit suspicious about the lack of loads of the things
 * daubers ponders going home and going to bed
<gord> who needs storage space when you have the cloud ;)
<MooDoo> o/ me
 * AlanBell likes lots of virtualbox machines
<dwatkins> Well, mine is made by Seagate, and it's in my laptop, but I see your points. popey - if you find the source, I'd be interested to hear more
<AlanBell> I could cope with fewer actually on the laptop
<dwatkins> gord: until you can run a virtual machine off the cloud, me ;)
<gord> what about that ubuntu demo we had
<gord> even then, you could completely have a central box that does all the virtual machine stuff with storage, then vnc/whatever into that
<gord> been tempted to do that before
<AlanBell> sometimes that works
<AlanBell> often I want a local VM running some kind of server, and I access it with a web browser running on the host
<AlanBell> which I could do in other ways
<dwatkins> I tend to leave my VMs on a server (vmware 2.0) and access them via the web interface
<BigRedS> dwatkins: isn't the cloud just a bunch of virtual machines?
<dwatkins> BigRedS: yeah, but if you could mount a remote filesystem (there are several attempts at making one from a gmail account, and I think Google are considering releasing a FS client) that would be handy
<dwatkins> when people say 'the cloud' they just mean 'online', it may be the data is on just one machine, they don't know either way.
<BigRedS> I thought Google closed down whatever gmailfs used?
<dwatkins> I gather Google store data in a very complex way, backed up on multiple systems etc.
<dwatkins> ah ok, that'll be why I havn't heard of it recently
<BigRedS> but, yeah, I was being a tad facetious :) Lots of our customers like the term 'cloud'
<dwatkins> indeed, as do ours (probably our own fault for releasing software which mentions it specifically)
<BigRedS> we're wondering whether we could get away with calling old-fashioned rent-a-homedir shared hosting 'the cloud'
<BigRedS> oh, we've avoided using the term, and are wondering if that's why we're not selling vms very quickly
<dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_File_System - Despite having published details on technologies like the Google File System, Google has not released the software as open source and shows little interest in selling it. The only way it is available to another enterprise is in embedded form..."
<BigRedS> Oh, yeah, I didn't realise anyone was expecting that
<dwatkins> expecting?
<BigRedS> A few years ago there was a fuse thing going round for mounting gmail mailboxes as filesystem
<BigRedS> s
<BigRedS> that's what I thought you meanty
<BigRedS> *meant
<dwatkins> yeah, I'd heard of it a while ago, doesn't surprise me they shut it down
<dwatkins> I thought there was talk more recently of a client to mount your google homedirectory, not sure if I dreamed it, though
<BigRedS> Oooh, chromeOS style
<BigRedS> That'd be nifty; have drop-box style access to whatever the homedir equivalent is on chromeos
<BigRedS> assuming that doesn't do a wave
<dwatkins> indeed, although I can see there being many potential pitfalls relating to the amount and type of content
<dwatkins> "Your home directory has been disabled because ti contains too much pink" ;)
<BigRedS> Actually, it doesn't make sense for chromeos to see it as a block device. It'd just be an object store like s3 or something
<BigRedS> haha
<Myrtti> pink mentioned
<dwatkins> Myrtti: it was a pterry misquote ;)
<dwatkins> the demon in the camera box said he'd run out of pink in the harem or something
<dwatkins> anyway *ahem* moving on
<dwatkins> I gather you can write APIs to access the Amazon store, but you can't mount it directly, I think there are some clients, not sure how mature/stable they are
<BigRedS> s3? there's a fuse driver for it
<dwatkins> nifty, I thought you couldn't use it from the UK but perhaps that's changed.
<BigRedS> Yeah, I've a few machines using it to backup I think
<BigRedS> i'm supposed to be using s3sync instead now, but I don't think everyone is
<dwatkins> ...which is apparently no longer being developed
<BigRedS> dwatkins: you mean it's stable? :)
<BigRedS> (which the fuse s3 driver isn't)
<dwatkins> haha, I wouldn't go that far
<BigRedS> well, it's unchanging :)
<dwatkins> I see what you did there, BigRedS
<BigRedS> I'm a debian user, I like things that aren't updated much
<dwatkins> The phrase "EU bucket support" suggests I could use it, I shall investigate further this evening.
<oimon> anyone tried using bumblebee video card swtiching?
<popey> i dont have a dual card system, so no
<oimon> i do , but finding documentation rather lacking
<czajkowski> AlanBell: seen the chicken that liked to stand on one leg http://pix.ie/czajkowski/2809009/in/album/437977
<oimon> there is something seriously odd with this vaio laptop. when booting into bios mode it chugs out serious heat and fan goes crazy
<diplo> Isn't that normal VAIO behaviour
<diplo> I had one that was like that all the time, and bosses new one is like it as well
<BigRedS> yeah, when it comes to space heating, Sony seems to be the new Apple
<diplo> Seem to run hot and fans go all the time
<bigcalm> On my current phone plan, I can pay 200 quid and have a HTC One X. Don't know if I want that now or wait for the SGS3 to come out :(
<bigcalm> Could have the SGS2 for 190 quid
<dwatkins> I've not had a phone plan that gives me a phone for years, I just buy them outright and get a SIM-only deal.
<diplo> Me to dwatkins
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod just cause I havent
<diplo> Except I'd like a more powerful phone, next thing on the savings list
<czajkowski> davmor2: herrrro
<dwatkins> I was very hesitant to get a smartphone, I prefer discrete devices in general.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: nice chicken
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I got some new ones, I have 4 now
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yay
<czajkowski> AlanBell: we wer up at Bunratty, then out to the cliffs of moher and down to lahinch for munchables
<AlanBell> I see you went to the cliffs  of moher
<AlanBell> Bunratty is interesting
<czajkowski> yup was a lot of fun
<AlanBell> so you are still out there?
<czajkowski> me yuip till the 22nd
<dogmatic69> in bash what is this $$? BACKUP=/tmp/backup.$$
<BigRedS> $$ is teh PID of the current process
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> so they using it like a random number there
<BigRedS> well, to get a uniqueish filename, yeah
<MooDoo> 40 on sunday :S eeeeeeeeeeeeek
<BigRedS> it's a pretty common way to do it, so you can be fairly sure that no other process is creating filenames ending with your PID
<BigRedS> 'cause using random numbers is more open to collision
<dogmatic69> ye
<AlanBell> MooDoo: 0x25
<dogmatic69> :( apt-get install -> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
<AlanBell> err, 0x28 even
<MooDoo> AlanBell: that's the one.
<bigcalm> How does one install a server only type setup?
<bigcalm> I don't want the GUI installed and running all the time
<BigRedS> bigcalm: with the alternative install CD
<BigRedS> I think there might even be a server one...
<bigcalm> Aha, thank you
<AlanBell> there is a server install cd
<AlanBell> I have lots of them
<GirlyGirl> bigcalm: Not the alternate install cd, either the server or minimal cd
<BigRedS> Doesn't teh alternate CD do it? I'm sure that's all I've ever used
<BigRedS> but I don't think I hav3e for a long time
<AlanBell> that has a text mode installer and can do the OEM install and some more complicated RAID setups, not sure if it can do no-gui though
<BigRedS> ah, fair enough. Maybve I've just mis-remembered
<bigcalm> Some overlapping text when viewing http://mirror01.th.ifl.net/releases//precise/ in chromium
<AlanBell> bigcalm: right until you launch the developer tools, then it fixes itself magically :(
<AlanBell> or refresh
<bigcalm> Refreshed and it fixed itself
<bigcalm> What an odd page
<bigcalm> Do you think that 12.04 is ready to use in anger on my home dev server and just upgrade as and when needed. Or wipe and reinstall come 26th?
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: I am using the desktop version and its ok. I am sure the server has less problems because there is no unity
<bigcalm> :)
<popey> yes bigcalm
<popey> just upgrade
<gord> i think that means you can #blamepopey if everything goes wrong ;)
<davmor2> gord: I thought that was compulsory
<popey> seems it
<AlanBell> anyone got a few minutes to fill in this consultation document? http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
<bigcalm> Server is up and running \o/
<bigcalm> It's noisier than the Revo :(
<StevenR> bigcalm: take the fans out. You probably don't need those.
<StevenR> bigcalm: either that, or get lots of revos and cluster them
 * bigcalm rolls his eyes
<AlanBell> imagine a beowulf clus . . . oh, that meme is out of date
<bigcalm> Just a little :D
<popey> bigcalm: how many disks in it?
<bigcalm> 1 atm
<bigcalm> I'm pondering raid
<popey> i have 5 disks in mine
<bigcalm> Do I want to go ott and get this? http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=B9C4F5D5A5CA7304
<davmor2> bigcalm: it is on the plus side a lot more flexible though
<bigcalm> Quite a bit cheaper here: http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/9050842/art/crucial/ram-memory-module-2-x-4-g.html?srcid=369
<bigcalm> Just want to make sure I order the right stuff
<shauno> what's the most sensible way to type foreign accents?  I'm struggling to find most of what I need
<davmor2> shauno: look up the key code in a charater map
<shauno> I can't reach Ã§ with the compose key?
<mgdm> compose + c + comma
<shauno> ah, so they're there, I just have to find them.  that's a start then :)
<mgdm> acute accents are compose + ' + letter, grave are compose + ` + letter, circumflex is compose + ^ + letter, umlaut (or whatever it's called is compose + " + letter, etc :)
<bigcalm> I was wrong, the pixmania link is for non-ecc ram
<bigcalm> Do I really need ECC?
<mgdm> bigcalm: probably not
<bigcalm> mgdm: home dev server, if it makes any difference
<mgdm> I'd guess if it was running a RAID with stuff you cared about on, then maybe
<dogmatic69> where would i submit a bug for evolution?
<davmor2> dogmatic69: open a terminal and type "ubuntu-bug evolution
<davmor2> "
<dogmatic69> k, just making sure that is the correct place
<dogmatic69> davmor2: should I search for existing bugs first? some projects dont like dups
<davmor2> dogmatic69: you can have a look by all means, it's always nice unless it is really old then you can do an up-to-date one
<dogmatic69> cool
<daubers> Evening
<shauno> I wonder how crazy I'd have to be to just write my own kxb map
<davmor2> daubers: hello dude
<davmor2> shauno: highly
<AlanBell> Daviey: how did you get on with packaging openERP?
<OmNomDePlume> Dammit, Liverpool scored.
<dogmatic69> what was that app that you can access any pc/OS from the same kb
<dogmatic69> can anyone guess a name?
<bigcalm> Synergy
<dwatkins> synergy? vnc?
<dwatkins> (with x2vnc, at least)
<dogmatic69> synergy is the one :)
<dogmatic69> thanks
<bigcalm> :)
<dwatkins> It's possible to secure synergy, worth doing on anything but a home network, imho, dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> its a home network, just too lazy to reach over to my laptop
<bigcalm> It's very useful
<dwatkins> what OS do the two machines run, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> maybe I should use a virtual desktop or something
<dogmatic69> then I dont even need to twist my neck
<dogmatic69> ubuntu + windows
<dwatkins> depends what you're using them for, I have about 5 displays on my desk
<dogmatic69> lol
<dogmatic69> I have 1 :(
<dogmatic69> used to have 2 buy my moms monitor died so gave her one
<dogmatic69> tbh, I only have the windows laptop to run some SEO apps
<dwatkins> this is a desk which needs synergy http://i.eho.st/pjnl3glv.jpg ;)
<dogmatic69> there are none for linux
<dogmatic69> how easy is it to remote desktop to windows from 12.04?
<dwatkins> if it's anything like 10.04, it's as easy as typing sudo apt-get install rdesktop && rdesktop <hostname>
<dwatkins> http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/rdesktop
<dogmatic69> nice thanks. I will try that
<dwatkins> looks like the package still exists, so should work fine, assuming you have remote access setup right
<dogmatic69> no rdesktop
<dogmatic69> oh there was, just auto complete was not working
<dwatkins> had me wondering there, dogmatic69 ;)
<OmNomDePlume> rofl Liverpool's keeper's got sent off.
<dwatkins> not for a hand-ball, I assume OmNomDePlume
<dogmatic69> OmNomDePlume: who they playing?
<OmNomDePlume> Blackburn away.
<OmNomDePlume> dwatkins no, he took out a Blackburn player.
<OmNomDePlume> Thing is, their #1 keeper is already suspended.
<OmNomDePlume> And now their #2 keeper just got red carded.
<dogmatic69> lol
<OmNomDePlume> So in the next match, they have to play some guy who hasn't played in the Premier League for three years.
<dogmatic69> :D
<dogmatic69> OmNomDePlume: who do you support?
<OmNomDePlume> FC Young Boys.
<OmNomDePlume> It is a real team in Switzerland.
<OmNomDePlume> Our greatest rivals: Grasshopper Club Zurich.
<dogmatic69> lol
<OmNomDePlume> "Kubuntu To Be Sponsored By Blue Systems, Rather Than Canonical"
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: Startup sound will be the song 'Blue' by Eiffel 65
<ali1234> hey remember when i was explaining why switching to a different distro over unity was a perfectly reasonable thing to do, because it was obvious canonical would not put as much resources into alternatives as those other distros do?
<ali1234> and you were all like "lol, xfce is in the repos, what more you want?"
<ali1234> well, i guess it turns out that merely packaging up a desktop and putting it in the repos isn't enough to get a working system
<alexcockell> Umm - I'm not really looking forward to being forced onto Unity...
<alexcockell> A lot of users are going to be pretty screwed - and they'll be people like me - who bought kit preinstalled...
<ali1234> it's the only decent open source desktop with serious resources behind it imo
<ali1234> alexcockell: wouldn't they know what they were buying?
<popey> i guess he means people who bought a machine with 10.04 and are upgrading to 12.04
<ali1234> i suppose. i heard opensuse is pretty easy to install tho...
<alexcockell> Or like me - bought a machine with 8.04, accepted upgrade to 10.04...
<ali1234> isn't it about time for a hardware upgrade then?
<alexcockell> Thinkpad R61i should be fine...
<alexcockell> I hope..
<alexcockell> Or my Lenovo Ideapad S12...
<dwatkins> ali1234: last time I used Debian, I was impressed with the integration between window managers - you could even switch between them, iirc.
<ali1234> hopefully someone will step up and provide real long term support (ie as long as anyone wants to pay for it) for 10.04
<alexcockell> Might it be a case of sending my machines back to Linux Emporium?
<ali1234> after 4 years?
<ali1234> actually i suspect that by the time 10.04 support really runs out gnome will have got their act together and made something actually usable
<ali1234> they've already done a huge u-turn on gnome-panel from what i can tell
<alexcockell> And will it be available via Upgrade Manager?
<ali1234> sure
<alexcockell> ... by the time 10.04 goes EOL?
<ali1234> it's available now if you can stand to use the buggy gnome-panel 3.0
<alexcockell> No.  Would want to just accept the upgrade in place like I did from Hardy to Lucid - and have the fucker work...
<alexcockell> ... like it did... i waited 3-4 months in when accepting the updates...
<alexcockell> .. sorry upGRADES...
<ali1234> i have no idea what will happen if you do that
<ali1234> i'd be suprised if it worked at all tbh
<ali1234> though they claim they just got it working the other day
<ali1234> major gtk upgrade was always going to cause problems
<ali1234> it caused enough from natty to oneiric
<alexcockell> Was meaning - that waiting for newLTS.1, meant all the real nasties were ironed out.
<ali1234> yeah that's generally a good idea
<ali1234> if you do that upgrade i would expect you'll end up with gnome panel still installed
<ali1234> then you just select it on the login screen
<alexcockell> Harks back to the behaviour in the commercial world, aka "always wait for SP1"
<ali1234> but gnome-panel on gtk3 is currently extremely buggy
<alexcockell> Yeah - except I'd be going from 10.04 Netbook on my S12, and 10.04 on my R61.
<ali1234> but you've got longer than until 12.04.1 to be released, before support ends on 10.04
<alexcockell> Yeah - I know - next March would be my final upgrade point...
<ali1234> so about a year
<ali1234> something will have to give before then i think
<alexcockell> And hopefully all those improvements would be backported to 12.04....
<ali1234> depends how you define improvements really
<ali1234> i expect gnome panel to get some love when LTS people start upgrading
<directhex> i used to upgrade about a month before release
<ali1234> i used to do that too
<directhex> now i wait until release at the earliest
<ali1234> now i upgrade to +1 as soon as it is available
<ali1234> since i got tired of unity being so buggy and bugs not getting fixed until the next cycle due to the development model
<Laney> someone forgot to tell my gnome-panel 3 to be awful
<ali1234> there's nothing wrong with it except it just crashes all the time when you try to configure it
<ali1234> once you get that done it seems ok
<Laney> missed that memo too
<ali1234> i expect it has something to do with porting all the plugins from gtk 2.0?
<Laney> a ton of them were removed
<ali1234> all the ones i used to use are still there
<Laney> many were ported too
<directhex> still need to plan a migration for 10.04 users in the office
<alexcockell> I hope the release mgt bods will have a load of transitional packages ready to ease people in...
<AlanBell> they have been doing a bunch of 10.04 to 12.04 upgrade tests
<alexcockell> And anything back about the results of those?
<directhex> it's an ongoing process.
<popey> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Upgrade%20Testing%20Dashboard/
<popey> https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20Upgrade%20Testing%20Dashboard/job/precise-upgrade-lucid-desktop/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Kubuntu to be Sponsored by Blue Systems - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4565
<directhex> mmmmmm cola
<Azelphur> anyone know how long home made caramel/toffee/fudge would last?
<directhex> Azelphur: stored how?
<Azelphur> however is sane I guess
 * Azelphur has his eyes on someone selling half pound blocks of them...home made...want
<directhex> a week or two at room temperature, in proper airtight packaging.
<directhex> longer in the fridge, even longer in the freezer
<directhex> in all cases, wax paper is key, as is airtightness
<Azelphur> directhex: so if I ordered like half a pound of it
<Azelphur> I should stash a bunch of it in the freezer
<Azelphur> and then it'd last
<popey> https://www.samba.org/samba/security/CVE-2012-1182
<directhex> Azelphur: yeah. waxproof paper to separate any layers of it you don't want to stick together, airtight tub.
<Azelphur> fun :D
<Azelphur> now the question is...which 2 do I get...caramel, fudge, toffee
<Azelphur> can't decide D:
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-11
<daftykins> ooh-err samba exploit
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Cloud Summit in Oakland, California in May 2012 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/11/ubuntu-cloud-summit-in-oakland-california-in-may-2012/
<daubers> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya
 * daubers is not having a good week
<czajkowski> aloha
<justso> good morning
<justso> could someone point me to the location of the default desktop images, I need to delete them to gain a bit more disk space
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> justso: sudo apt-get autoremove --purge ubuntu-wallpapers
<popey> for me that frees up only 3MB
<justso> thanks thats a help :-)
<justso> I only have a 4 gig drive so it all  helps
<popey> heh
<popey> have you done "sudo apt-get clean" and "sudo apt-get autoclean" ?
<popey> 4GB is a bit small for Ubuntu really
<justso> it is but it's the biggest usb memory stick I had available
<justso> I just dont update anything and clean it up once in a while
 * justso wonders how long a memory stick will take to fail when being used for the OS
<popey> ahhh
<justso> anyway thanks for the help popey ... another 3 meg to play with .... yipeee !!!
<popey> np
<justso> actually I have another question ... how hard would it be to move this install to a larger dive ?
<popey> easy, dd it from one stick to another
<popey> then use gparted to expand the partitions
<justso> could I just install a boot partition then copy over all these files ?
<popey> probably quicker to reinstall tbh
<czajkowski> aloha
<justso> hmm it too me a while to get it set up so I dont really want to start again
<popey> yeah, dd it over
<justso> dd?
<popey> actually easier/quicker to just use gparted
<popey> plug both sticks in, start gparted and copy/paste âº
<justso> I will take a look at that
<popey> i used it recently to migrate from a spinning disk to ssd
<justso> ahh but the os I am copying will be in use so will that screw it up ?
<popey> works nicely
<justso> ok thx
<popey> ah
<popey> do it from a live cd
<justso> yeah thats it
<justso> :-)
<JamesTait> Happy Tues^WWednesday, all!
<popey> hah
<popey> humpday!
 * justso waves
<czajkowski> how do people not get the contact this team feature in launchpad :/
<czajkowski> on a brighter note, updated blog theme :) http://www.lczajkowski.com/
<Gary> my eyes!!!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: looks good, although for me the background is removing the impact of the blog title??
<MooDoo> that and the fact my eyes are bleeding :D
<Gary> anyone got any bleach?
<czajkowski> Gary: oi
<Gary> <3
<czajkowski> MooDoo: the blog title or the tag line ?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: both i think, then again could just be my eyes
<popey> czajkowski: "One you add in you sign in via your launchpad account " que?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<gord> czajkowski, hey you work over there on launchpad right? go get them to add a "hey, just so you know this isn't how you talk on the mailing list" label to that button
<gord> i get new emails from unity launchpad groups all the time because of that button
<popey> heh, yeah, should only be possible to contact individuals, not groups
<bigcalm> Running the server with 12.04 seems to be working so far. Except when I tried to shut down last night. 'shutdown now' sent the server into single user mode. 'halt' really did stop everything, except it didn't turn the power off
<popey> odd, works for me
<popey> mind you mine isn't the n40l, mine's the n36l
<bigcalm> Usually I won't be shutting the box down. But as it's not doing everything yet, there was no need for it to be on while I was sleeping
<czajkowski> gord: thats a new feature curtis worked on unfortunately not many people seem to A) know how to use it B) know it exists
<bigcalm> popey: hummz
<bigcalm> Morning mrevell
<mrevell> Hello there bigcalm. How be it?
<czajkowski> popey: I dont get you
<bigcalm> Sunny, very very sunny
<bigcalm> mrevell: and with you?
<czajkowski> 09:24 < popey> czajkowski: "One you add in you sign in via your launchpad  account " que?
<jpds> czajkowski: "Como?" is what you're actually suppose to say in .es.
<czajkowski> jpds: lets not confuse my brain shall we this morning by adding another language
 * czajkowski is rather sleepy 
<jpds> czajkowski: Story of my life.
<czajkowski> jpds: the confusion :p
<oimon> anyone tried gnome panel in 12.04 with dual monitors?
<jpds> czajkowski: No.
<popey> czajkowski: read the sentence out loud, it makes no sense to me
<czajkowski> would also possibly help if I went to bed before 3am :/
<oimon> looking good on 1 atm
<popey> oimon: nope, not I
<czajkowski> popey: this new feature http://blog.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/contacting-teams-is-easier-and-more-reliable
<oimon> all that crying and shouting and people swapping distros and there it is sitting pretty in 12.04
<czajkowski> people dont seem to realise by contacting this team the mail goes to everyone on the team, which is great, but people on the team dont seem to know this feature exists so they forward the mail onto the team in some cases
<jpds> oimon: Too bad noone supports that code anymore.
<oimon> jpds, what do you mean? it's gtk3 based
<oimon> i've been using a dock for ages that is no longer developed, but works fine with all apps
<czajkowski> until the day it stops working
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> popey: saw this and reminded me of you! http://data.whicdn.com/images/11356949/dog-pringles-duck_large.jpg
<oimon> the weird thing is, i keep hitting super to get unity up :-\
 * popey wonders if czajkowski understand what he said now?
<oimon> i want to use unity but still cannot use it until some changes are made
<oimon> hey i just noticed that the crash reporter shows if the bug has been reported already :D
<popey> yeah, thats handy
<oimon> except that i can't see the bug , must be private :(
<oimon> bug #978491
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 978491 could not be found
<czajkowski> popey: think so
<popey> golly, that youtube video I made about testing unity has had about 2800 views
<popey> probably the most any video I have ever made has had :D
<popey> hah, just noticed you can scroll the launcher with the mouse wheel
<gord> i made a minecraft video once and now it has like 80,000 views or something stupid. make a unity testing video that has some minecraft in it,then you'll get the youtube bucks
<popey> hah
<oimon> mmm gnome classic + unity 2d launcher seems to be nice
<gordonjcp> ffs
<gordonjcp> $head_salesguy "so you don't see any problems with putting in this piece of equipment?"
<gordonjcp> what, this piece of equipment I haven't even seen, in an ATEX site (oil terminal), which is a half hour boat trip away from where I can drive to?
<gordonjcp> yeah, I'm going to answer *that*
<Myrtti> so, what are people going to do with their Viglen MPC-L's nowadays?
<directhex> aquarius, do you know anyone at MS with a vague interest in encouraging FOSS?
<aquarius> directhex, Steve Lamb
<bigcalm> Myrtti: mine has been in a draw for more than 2 years and my parents' will be replaced with my Revo :)
<aquarius> directhex, @actionlamb on twitter
<bigcalm> Other than that, not a clue
<mgdm> directhex: @fearthecowboy does
<directhex> thanks guys
<aquarius> directhex, I think he's actually head of the UK MS FOSS team ;)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: popey christel http://www.ribstock.co.uk/
<mgdm> directhex: also, @brian_swan - they're both US guys
<dvdrw> When is 12.04 officially released?
<czajkowski> directhex: many do,http://twitter.com/#!/MichaelaKraft
<bigcalm> dvdrw: 26th
<dvdrw> ok
<directhex> czajkowski, looks like @actionlamb and @fearthecowboy are perfect, they're active on twitter so should reply
<dvdrw> I'll put it on my calendar
<aquarius> directhex, linkedin says actionlamb's job title is "Open Source Strategist"... and he spoke at LRL a few times
<bigcalm> dvdrw: though you should be using 12.04 already and reporting bugs :D
<dvdrw> That's true
<mgdm> directhex: If it's useful, fearthecowboy hangs around in #coapp on here, once the Pacific coast wakes up :)
<popey> czajkowski: i fly out the next day to the sprint
<aquarius> directhex, whatcha asking them about?
<czajkowski> popey: ahh dont forget the tea bags :)
<directhex> aquarius, trying to work out what we need to buy to get windows vms running buildbot-slave. msdn subs are strictly per-user, which means it's not clear how many of anything are needed
<bigcalm> Somebody should mail a crate to the venue so that people have proper tea waiting for you
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning dude
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: czajkowski prod
<aquarius> directhex, heh, a good question :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: *poke*
<aquarius> bigcalm, proper tea is theft
<bigcalm> Badum-tish
<bigcalm> :)
<davmor2> aquarius: hey dude, you coming to the Ubuntu Happy hour a week thursday?
<bigcalm> ...
<bigcalm> There will be booze
<bigcalm> Pubs do booze I think
<davmor2> aquarius: good time to pimp U1 services :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: hi mr, wassup?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> The following packages have been kept back:
<bigcalm>   linux-headers-server linux-image-server linux-server
<bigcalm> How do I get them upgraded without using aptitude full-upgrade?
<davmor2> MooDoo: said morning all and didn't get a barrage of abuse so just checking people were alive ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm alive, just not concentrating on this channel.
<davmor2> MooDoo: you bad bad man anyone would think you were at work or something ;)
<aquarius> davmor2, um, I don't know waht it is
<bigcalm> :O
<MooDoo> davmor2: i am, just in another room not this one, well i wasn't when you said hi
<popey> speaking of U1. I just enabled backups with deja-dup to U1.
<popey> OMG excellent
<bigcalm> I have to say, the event details aren't easily accessable for the channel website
<oimon> how much space do u have in u1?
<popey> I've used 67%
<popey> !u
<lubotu3> U is the 21st letter of the modern latin alphabet. Neither 'U' nor 'Ur' are words in the English language. Neither are 'R', 'Y', 'l8', 'ryt',  'Ne1' nor 'Bcuz'. Mangled English is hard for non-native English speakers. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/abbreviations/ for more information.
<popey> âº
<davmor2> bigcalm: sudo apt-get install linux-server should tell you what the issue is
<davmor2> bigcalm: it could be that it's held back due to a dep
<davmor2> aquarius: it's like a social lug meeting but for Ubuntu Abuser :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: every kernel update on all of my servers has _always_ been held back
<davmor2> bigcalm: they like you to be sure as it requires a reboot and may need scheduling
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<bigcalm> libssl also requires a reboot but doesn't have this
<bigcalm> I like that apt-listchanges are mailed to root on upgrade
<davmor2> bigcalm: kernel may add hardware etc,  libssl will be a security update hence a requirement, you might not need the kernel update
<bigcalm> Ok
<davmor2> bigcalm: plus if your machine doesn't reboot due to the kernel update you'll need time to fix it, a reboot for libssl will have you tinkering if it fails but might not mean downtime as such
<aquarius> davmor2, on a thursday? this is in Wolves?
<davmor2> aquarius: thursday the 19th at the moon under water from 7pm
<oimon> popey, how dareth thee question mine english?
<aquarius> heh, the Moon Under Water. Last time I was there someone stole my phone.
<oimon> maybe a mermaid aquarius
<aquarius> definitely wasn't a mermaid.
<bigcalm> The bar maids are pretty
<bigcalm> Does this help?
<Killerjim> I'm linking my application with a debug static library, but the debug symbols for the static library are not present in the application - any reasons why this might be?
<davmor2> aquarius: go on be sociable you know you want to :)
<oimon> lightdm session choosing is incredibly slow in precise, and causes the fan to wake up - anyone else hase this?
<Myrtti> so do I read this right that not even Debian ships a supported kernel that Viglen MPC-L could use?
<popey> Myrtti: depens what you're reading
<davmor2> Killerjim: have you installed the debug symbols for the lib? you might need to add the ddeb repo for it
<Myrtti> popey: it's entirely possible I'm understanding it wrong, but https://help.ubuntu.com/11.04/installation-guide/i386/hardware-supported.html
<Ng> popey: can I get a +1/reshare of https://plus.google.com/108361606659676027857/posts ? :D
<popey> done
<Ng> (I have also tweeted if, if you fancy retweeting that with your epic community connection powers ;)
<Ng> \o/
<Ng> ta
<popey> also done
 * Ng +1s popey 
<popey> Ng: considered posting it on linuxjobs list?
<Ng> popey: I have indeed and will very likely do so, I've had some good responses from it recently
<popey> cool
<Ng> popey: good grief man, you have almost 2k followers on the twitter
<christel> they all think it is elvis
<popey> do I?
<popey> i never look
<mgdm> I found out I have something slightly north of 500
<mgdm> can't think why
<mgdm> I just talk nonsense
<popey> how do you register a new freenode nickname but associate it with another one?
<mgdm> popey: /msg nickserv help group
<popey> ahh group
<kvarley> How do I copy the output in my Putty window?
<Ng> christel: hehe
<kvarley> Nvm got it
<mgdm> kvarley: just highlight it, that copies it by default
<mgdm> kvarley: watch out, right-click in the window is paste :)
<kvarley> For some reason to paste you press the middle mouse button
<kvarley> My uEnv.txt is loaded but my resolution does not change. Can anybody help? The serial output and uEnv.txt is pasted here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/924673/
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: http://standards.freedesktop.org/clipboards-spec/clipboards-latest.txt
<kvarley> Sorry wrong channel -_-
<kvarley> Thanks MartijnVdS
<diplo-> Why can't Bristol have better connectivity :( would love a job like above but with my kids i can't move to london :(
<oimon> i know people who commute fro m bristol
<oimon> but i guess they don't get to tuck their kids in at night
<diplo-> Doesn't help when I need to get the kids from school though, being single now
<diplo-> Yeah and that
<aquarius> Ng, you tweeted about a job?
<oimon> which is why i moved to public sector
<diplo-> One of my fave parts
<popey> aquarius: https://twitter.com/#!/cmsj/status/189992137083981825
<oimon> worth the 15-20k pay cur
<aquarius> aha, we're looking for a data centre engineer, huh?
 * aquarius retweets it
<Ng> aquarius: yes and thanks!
<oimon> the power drains from my toshiba laptop when the power is turned off :(
<oimon> have to remove battery from machine :(
<MartijnVdS> Short somewhere?
<MartijnVdS> Does it drain as fast as during suspend?
<MartijnVdS> Does it also drain if you remove it a few minutes, then reconnect it?
<oimon> MartijnVdS, not sure about the 3rd one, if it's possible to tell
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Shut down machine, pull battery off, wait, put battery on
<MartijnVdS> oimon: wait a day, check if discharged?
<oimon> a day, deifinitely
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> or a few hours
<oimon> yep , a few hours
<MartijnVdS> or however long it takes for it to discharge noticeably
<dwatkins> it's definitely completely shut down, oimon?
<oimon> brand new machine
<oimon> yes, ciompletely
<oimon> other people have the laptop, but it's hard to get them to test anything cos they don't care or understand
<quetzel_quagga> Hail!
<MartijnVdS> hail!
<oimon> how to check exact charge?
<MartijnVdS> quetzel_quagga: that's an old-fashioned greeting, isn't it? :)
<oimon> or a weather report MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> oimon: or that, yes
<MartijnVdS> oimon: which explains why you used it as a greeting :P
<quetzel_quagga> Does it hail frequently on IRC?
<dwatkins> good day, quetzel_quagga
<MartijnVdS> quetzel_quagga: Sometimes
<czajkowski> anyone want to help a new 12.04 user https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/193299
<davmor2> czajkowski: no ;)
<oimon> MartijnVdS, i found something in bios called sleep and charge, will try to disable it
<oimon> my laptop will lose 1hr of charge overnight when completely off
<oimon> or someimes more
<popey> thats a bit rubbish
<oimon> s/bit/very/
<oimon> the money they spent on this, i could have bought the mighty thinkpad
<popey> should have
<popey> send it back!
<oimon> no choice, like it or lump it
<popey> toshiba are top of my do-not-buy list
<popey> along with sony
<oimon> me too
<oimon> and apple
<oimon> toshiba are OK for budget
<oimon> but this was more expensive, so why not buy a proper laptop
<oimon> their Â£500 models are good for parents, especially the 17 inch screen one
<oimon> when i suspend and resume, i can't change screen brightness either, so i'm stuck with whatever i had previously
<oimon> need to check that in 12.04
<oimon> there's been a v big earthquake in indonesia
<davmor2> czajkowski: not sure I can help with that one popey might have more idea
<popey> nope
<popey> use askubuntu :)(
<popey> -(
<davmor2> czajkowski: ^
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/96681/ubuntu-doesnt-seem-to-shut-down-unless-i-force-kill-it-suggestions
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/838792
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 838792 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) ""Restart" logs out, even when there are no other people logged in" [High,Confirmed]
<Mez> Anyone available next thursday (19th) and fancy doing a talk at Birmingham LUG ?
<czajkowski> http://www.internetnews.com/blog/skerner/instagrams-billion-sale-powered-by-ubuntu-linux.html
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: So.. the next sabdfl is born? :)
<bigcalm> Yay, big thunder and lightning storm over me :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: greased lightning?
 * bigcalm hugs his UPSes
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is it frightening?
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> It's windy
<bigcalm> I'm glad that both my electricity and communication cables are both under ground
<bigcalm> Hail now
<bigcalm> Less than 4 seconds from lightning to thunder
<bigcalm> Tis really rather close now
 * MartijnVdS waits for bigcalm to drop off the interwebs
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it doesn't take much with Virgin Media
<bigcalm> Less than 2 seconds now
<oimon> kindle touch? is that new?
<MartijnVdS> yes, and it's poo
<oimon> why?
<MartijnVdS> Touch screen on eink reduces contrast for some reason
<oimon> oh
<stuphi> MartijnVdS: Not on the Sony reader. It used IR round the edge so no overlay required.
<oimon> http://direct.asda.com/Kobo-Wireless-eReader---Onyx/000518285,default,pd.html?cm_mmc=afc-_-Direct-_-43305-_-text&campid%3Dawin_Money+Saving+Expert_43305_id=2786
<oimon> ^^ kobo for Â£49
<MartijnVdS> stuphi: My Sony used an overlay
<MartijnVdS> stuphi: and it was MUCH worse than my kindle is
<stuphi> MartijnVdS: How old was that?
<stuphi> MartijnVdS: Mine does not. :-)
<MartijnVdS> stuphi: ~2 years maybe
<MartijnVdS> prs600 I think it was
<oimon> how would you read amazon kindle books on a sony or kobo?
<oimon> strip the DRM first?
<stuphi> oimon: If you are going to buy amazon books, why not get a Kindle?
<oimon> stuphi, that wasn't the question i asked though.
<stuphi> MartijnVdS: Mine is PRS-350. That and the PRS-650 introduced the IR touch sensors.
<davmor2> oimon: they might strike up deals with amazon to get support for kindle
<MartijnVdS> stuphi: ah.. probably because they figured out less contrast = bad :)
<stuphi> oimon: But you already answered your question :-)
<stuphi> MartijnVdS: Guess so.
<MartijnVdS> Some e-book stores can link to Amazon to send books to Kindle (Harry Potter comes to mind)
<MartijnVdS> but the other way around..
<oimon> so if you have a kobo reader, where do you buy your books?
<awilkins> WHSmith?
<stuphi> Waterstones?
<MartijnVdS> pirate bay?
<oimon> book shops sell ebooks?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: some do
<stuphi> http://www.gutenberg.org/
<MartijnVdS> oimon: but only to the country they're in
<MartijnVdS> I've tried to buy ebooks from the US, but they wouldn't let me. Same with MP3s and videos
<MartijnVdS> Stupid "rights" poo
<oimon> ebooks is a nightmare
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I can buy books for my Kindle at Amazon.com at least
<oimon> not a very open market though
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<oimon> and if your wife has a book, she can't even lend it to you
<oimon> s/book/kindle ebook/
<oimon> without you registereing to her device, or decrypting the book
<MartijnVdS> it's all vendor lock in (even though most use epub + Adobe DRM), and the fact that copyrights are per-counry
<oimon> :(
<stuphi> Download old books from Gutenberg and manage with Calibre.
<popey> meh, I'd just decrypt them
<oimon> popey, yeah for now, until they block it
<popey> they who?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Then that kind of DRM will also be cracked
<oimon> amazon move to a new book format
<MartijnVdS> oimon: same as with movies
<oimon> i emailed amazon about the lending thing that works in the US
<oimon> they said meh, just register your device with your friend's credentials
<popey> i dont see how amazon can move to a new format
<popey> given there are a bazillion kindles out there
<popey> they'd have to force a firmware update on them all
<awilkins> They could only do it if they forced a firmware update on them all <damn
<oimon> phased approach
<popey> cant see them doing it
<popey> i dont think it hurts them that bad
<popey> because they make it so easy to buy books
<popey> movie studios are finding high piracy because it _is_ hard to buy movies
<oimon> t first, content creators will only be able to use KF8 for the Kindle Fire tablet, though Amazon says it'll gradually expand to its entire lineup of devices and apps "in the coming months."
<oimon> http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/24/amazons-new-e-book-format-brings-html5-support-to-your-kindle-l/
<awilkins> Amazon were the first major store to have DRM-free music (correct?)
<awilkins> I imagine the publishers have some nutty restrictions
<oimon> they will provide a compelling new format
<oimon> awilkins, yes but in response to apple. now that amazon are leading the market with a DRM by design, and don't even support epub, then they won't change
<awilkins> They do kind of have a point in some ways. People will go the easiest route to their content.
<awilkins> It's a shame it lets the publishers reinforce their stupid pricing practices (e.g. eBooks that cost more than the hardback)
<oimon> stallman won't be happy that this book isÂ£1.92 on amazon and free on gutenberg http://www.amazon.co.uk/Free-Freedom-Paperback-Stallmans-Software/dp/0596002874
<oimon> cathedral and bazaar is Â£7.20 :-\
<awilkins> Stallman would be fine with it - he has no opposition to people making money from selling content. He might throw a wobbly if the book doesn't clearly state that it's [whatever free license] he wrote it under though
<popey> latest wheeze at ex-work is to wait until your co-worker is giving a presentation and then drop files with amusing names in a shared dropbox folder
<popey> notifications pop up with the filename in
<brobostigon> hehe :)
<awilkins> touch "Whoooaaaaaa, your <expletive> is on fiiiiirre"
<popey> "Deans list of porn websites.txt" was one
<brobostigon> almost reminds me of that scene in wayne's world, where he is presenting his sponser, and writes stuff on the backs of those cards, facing the camera.
<popey> heh, yeah
<bigcalm> popey: your ex-work sounded fun
<MartijnVdS> popey: Your laptop is an X1 right?
<gord> X220
<MartijnVdS> gord: Thanks
<gord> you should get one, it makes you cool
<MartijnVdS> gord: not much difference, is there?
<gord> i have no idea
<MartijnVdS> gord: X1 comes with SSD, and is 13" instead of 12.5
<gord> says 2nd generation i5, not sure if they mean sandybridge by that or not
<popey> x220 as gord says
<MartijnVdS> the X1 also has 3G
 * popey has ssd
<MartijnVdS> like my current Sony
<MartijnVdS> I like 3G
<popey> i share my phones 3g
<popey> dont like having lots of 3g subs
<gord> you can get an ssd with the x220, its an option. but its not worth it
<MartijnVdS> popey: My employer pays for a separate SIM :)
<gord> way too expensive
<popey> yeah, i bought my ssd separately
<MartijnVdS> Also.. my current laptop still works fine
<MartijnVdS> so I don't know IF I even want a new one
<gord> i have a laptop refresh coming up, maybe i'll get another x220, because then i will have two
<bigcalm> My boss is offering me some new kit as an incentive that a project gets out the door on time. I don't need an incentive, but I'm thinking it might be time for a decent laptop. x220?
<MartijnVdS> gord: and then you'll be double cool?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: X220 or X1, I'd say
<gord> well, i'll be a step ahead of the popeys and jcastros in the world anyway!
<MartijnVdS> gord: and sabdfls?
<gord> no idea what he uses
<bigcalm> Windows
<MartijnVdS> didn't people start buying X220s because he had one?
<gord> tim schafer has an x220 though
<bigcalm> No, it'll be a Macbook air
<gord> people started buying x220s because *I* got one and they saw it at a platform sprint :P
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: this explains Unity
<bigcalm> o.O
<MartijnVdS> à² _à²  @ gord
<popey> i got one because gord told me to
<MartijnVdS> popey: "I won't fix unity bugs if you don't"?
<popey> i might make an ubuntu screencast tonight
<popey> unity one
<gord> a "don't panic" screencast for people upgrading from lts might be a good idea
<popey> yeah
<popey> thats what I'm thinking
<popey> not sure whether to make one big one or lots of little ones and make a playlist
<bigcalm> Playlist would be more useful I think
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UnityDontPanic
<popey> started making notes
<popey> gord: suggestions...
<popey> welcome
<stuphi> That's hard. Been using Unity long enough to forget what life was like before! :-)
<popey> heh
<gord> i think you'd learn more about what needs to be explained from watching someone try to use it
<diplo-> Blimey, cli server and want to install system-config-printer
<diplo-> So many gtk apps :(
<bigcalm> Is there an bash environment variable that says I am iain?
<diplo-> id ?
<bigcalm> USER
<diplo-> ah sorry read that wrong
<shauno> I don't think bash has an equivalent of getpwnam(); I'd just getent passwd username & parse it out
<bigcalm> It's ok, everything works as expected
<popey> Azelphur: https://www.facebook.com/epikprojectuk
<davmor2> czajkowski: you coming to Happy Hour?
<czajkowski> davmor2: I'm in .ie
<davmor2> czajkowski: and ryan air flight to bham and a train to wolves will only be like a Â£10 each way ;)
<czajkowski> :p
<gord> but you have to fly at 2am and have a layover in spain
<czajkowski> if I go to spain I'm not budging for a week!
<davmor2> czajkowski: what makes it worse is it would probably get you here faster than if you travelled by train from London :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: plus you know all about cheap flights from the song right?
<popey> handy http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8403291/1204-poster-3.pdf
<MartijnVdS> popey: are/will translations of that available?
<popey> pass
<popey> email the owner âº
<MartijnVdS> :|
<popey> OMG!
<popey> I am on a call with gord
<popey> how _exciting_
<bigcalm> "exciting"?
<MartijnVdS> popey: are you giggling?
<popey> I went "Woohoo!" at one point
<popey> which was the excitement high point
<bigcalm> You know how to let yourself go
<popey> Oh yes
<bigcalm> Damn it Rackspace, what is our new IP for VPN connections?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: 192.168.0.1
<davmor2> gord: blow rasberries at him you know you want to
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: popey likes raspberries.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I woulnd't mind if it was, but a 3rd party have stated that their vpn connection must be allocated a public ip address
<bigcalm> Which is a little weird
 * bigcalm shakes his fist at PayPoint
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: only blown ones
<czajkowski> bigcalm: did you get halyes bday pressie yet
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: or pis
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I have a couple of things that I think she will like. I'm still keeping my eye out for something really special
<bigcalm> czajkowski: maybe with an owl on it
<czajkowski> :o
<bigcalm> She likes owl...
<bigcalm> s
<davmor2> bigcalm: I bet she isn't a cat hater ;)
<davmor2> bigcalm: you're after a Hogwarts school badge with an owl on then right :D
<bigcalm> She's going to be 40. Can't make this silly
<bigcalm> No, she's not a cat hater, but she prefers dogs
<davmor2> bigcalm: I bet she like jedi cat vs angry dog though right :)
 * bigcalm rolls his eyes
<davmor2> chrisccoulson: you're busy, he's busier is that really a nick you want to poach ;)
<MartijnVdS> Whoa
<MartijnVdS> G+ changed
<bigcalm> Looks more like Facebook now
<MartijnVdS> gee I wonder why
<MartijnVdS> it even has the Unity bar ;)
<MartijnVdS> heh they even have the "Cover picture" like FB
<bigcalm> They do?
<popey> i dont have it yet
<MartijnVdS> on your profile page
<bigcalm> Looks the same as ever to me
<bigcalm> :)
 * AlanBell sees no great change
 * jussi just got it...
<gord> something changed on the internet? hold on, let me get my pitchfork
<bigcalm> Ooo
<jussi> it is kinda like unity... :P
<bigcalm> Just loaded a different gmail account and got it
<bigcalm> Looks ok to me :)
<AlanBell> I want an office with fewer screaming kids in it
<oracology> sorry guys i came in late on this one...what are we talking about..?
 * oracology feels sheepish.
<bigcalm> g+
<gord> how kids should not get time off school because it mildly bothers us that work from home
<bigcalm> AlanBell: send the kids out to work
<bigcalm> gord: yep :)
<oracology> bigcalm: thanks :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: how?
<StevenR> AlanBell: move to an office with a bear?
<MartijnVdS> popey: https://plus.google.com/u/0/100189567362844794281/about ?
<MartijnVdS> popey: if I mouseover I get a "change photo" thingy
<popey> yeah, i can get to my own profile
<popey> but what do you do then?
<MartijnVdS> you mouseover the area with your photo and the"bubbles"
<popey> bubbles?
<AlanBell> I think it isn't fully rolled out yet, I don't see anything interesting or bubbly
<MartijnVdS> popey: I'll shoot a screen :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: sent to you on G+ :)
<popey> mine is a google apps for domains account
<MartijnVdS> so is mine
<popey> nice
 * popey signs out
<bigcalm> Signing out/in made no difference to my account display
<bigcalm> *** /dev/sdb1 will be checked for errors at next reboot ***
<bigcalm> It lies
<bigcalm> Every reboot that message as been there on login
<ali1234>  get that too. should bug report it
<ali1234> bug 854772
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 692355 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #854772 fsck doesn't update system info on login" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692355
<Azelphur> what do most people use for twitter on Linux, gwibber?
<bigcalm> Oh bum, no telnet client on this windows2008 server
<bigcalm> Azelphur: I guess. Personally I just use my phone
<Azelphur> hehe
<bigcalm> Stops me from being distracted when I'm meant to be working
<popey> heh, refreshed and now I get it
<bigcalm> There's IRC for that
<AlanBell> me too popey
<Azelphur> I like the look of tweetdeck and how it can split feeds up into multiple rows
<awilkins> Azelphur, I tend to just use the website
<Azelphur> awilkins: hehe
<bigcalm> Azelphur: columns?
<Azelphur> yea, columns.
<bigcalm> Yup, I have it too now
<Azelphur> would be nice to put certain bot/high traffic feeds into a separate column
<bigcalm> "don't forget about the Wolverhampton Happy Hour tomorrow"
<bigcalm> Erm
<bigcalm> Next week, not tomorrow
<bigcalm> (this is me filing a bug report) :P
<Azelphur> wait what...my gwibber from the repo doesn't look anything like the gwibber screenshots on their site
<hamitron> blame canonical!
<Azelphur> BLAME HAS BEEN ASSIGNED.
<Myrtti> Azelphur: I just use Tweetdeck on Chromium
<Azelphur> fun
 * bigcalm hugs AlanBell 
<davmor2> bigcalm: put him down you don't know where he has been
<directhex> blarg
<directhex> blarg argh blaaarg
<davmor2> directhex: stop dying everywhere you big wuss ;)
<directhex> davmor2: i'm dying.
<davmor2> directhex: everyone is the speed is dependant upon the person though ;)  the blarg's were what I was commenting on though :D
<ed345678> hi somebody help me
<ed345678> iam running lubuntu
<AlanBell> hi ed345678
<ed345678> i am unable to create a new file in documents or desktop
<ed345678> it says error opening file, filesystem read only
<ed345678> hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> were there any problems apparent when booting up?
<ed345678> no no problems, everythings working
<AlanBell> and has it just started doing this?
<ed345678> yes
<ed345678> i tried starting leafpad with sudo and then saving txt file on desktop but still get that same error
<AlanBell> does a reboot cure it?
<ed345678> dont know, I will try rebooting now
<directhex> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1613260297/shadowrun-returns/posts/205887
<popey> directhex: golly
<popey> directhex: what should I do with this busted xbox? chuck it?
<directhex> popey: i guess :/
<popey> bummer
<directhex> :(
<shane_> spray it another colour and mount it on the wall
<jacobw> evening
<bigcalm> Evening mrevell, bit late for you?
<mrevell> bigcalm, Timezones and release deadlines :)
<bigcalm> Ah, fun times :D
<billybob1> Hello
<popey> yo
<billybob1> What is this channel for?
<MartijnVdS> Talking.
<MartijnVdS> About things.
<brobostigon> well, almost anything,
<MartijnVdS> Mostly Ubuntu-related though
<brobostigon> and food, and beer, and etc.
<popey> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/04/11/s05e04-cube-root-of-conquest/
<popey> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
 * bigcalm fires up gpodder
<bigcalm> This'll make 3 eps that I need to listen to, oops
<popey> heh
 * popey tickles bigcalm with mc
<bigcalm> Go on then :)
<MartijnVdS> mc \o/
<bigcalm> snowflake?
<brobostigon> google listen notifications. :)
<MartijnVdS> Google Listen isn't developed anymore, is it?
<MartijnVdS> It kept doing annoying things on my phone (like randomly pausing the music playe[Dr)
<brobostigon> no idea, but i have it installed, on my tablet.
<billybob1> Okay then well hi all :)
<MartijnVdS> hi billybob1
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: is there an alternative?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Not really. I use banshee atm
<billybob1> But as it is ubuntu based is everyone using the unity interface and any one like it?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: there might be a good app in the store, but haven't looked
<MartijnVdS> billybob1: no, and no :)
 * awilkins is OK with unity
<MartijnVdS> billybob1: but I like it
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see. well listen still works ok, so untill i find an alternative, it will do.
<billybob1> I miss the taskbar it is frustrating changing windows now even with the short keys
<MartijnVdS> billybob1: the thing on the left IS the taskbar
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i found they released google currents outside the us, i know it deals with stuff from google reader, could that work. i havent actually looked at it yet.
<billybob1> Yeah but it combines EVERYTHING /sigh
<billybob1> Also how do you just get back to the desktop?
<awilkins> ctrl-alt-D
<MartijnVdS> billybob1: hold the "flag" key for a while, a screen full of shortcut keys pops up
<billybob1> <3 awilkins : Cheers
<billybob1> Yeah but that only shows the bar shortcuts
<awilkins> The shortcuts are defined in keyboard settings application.
<billybob1> Does this now mean that I have to go and learn LOADS of shortkeys just to be able to do normal switching like in Gnome2?
<awilkins> For desktop I usually just keep one workspace clean and switch to it with alt-arrows
<awilkins> I do most of my app switching that way too
<awilkins> One workspace for comms, one for coding, one for source control, etc
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, i just tried to pickup ubuntu-uk podcast via rss, from my google reader list, and it picked it up fine, so it could be an alternative.
<brobostigon> google currents, i mean.
<brobostigon> fail. no sorry, didnt playback.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E04  Cube Root of Conquest - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/04/11/s05e04-cube-root-of-conquest/
<Azelphur> anyone know of a really active twitter account (a bot or something) that posts regularly?
 * Azelphur wants something to test with
<ali1234> the launchpad one
<AlanBell> there is the bigbenclock one
<ali1234> https://twitter.com/#!/ubuntubugs
<ali1234> wait that seems to have died on 23rd feb
<Azelphur> ali1234: that hasn't seen activity for months :p
<AlanBell> oh the clock has stopped
<Azelphur> lol
<AlanBell> https://twitter.com/#!/big_ben_clock
<Azelphur> hahahaha
<Azelphur> bong bong bong.
<Azelphur> was thinking more active than that though
<ali1234> you need to subscribe to a tab
<ali1234> *tag
<ali1234> like #lol should do it
<AlanBell> yeah, that one is regular, but not frequent
<Azelphur> that's a good idea
<Azelphur> holy crap, lol is a bit too busy xD
<Azelphur> wow, that was insane
<Azelphur> note to self: don't do that
<Azelphur> Ubuntu is a good one, keeps things going every few seconds
<AlanBell> what are you doing with it?
<AlanBell> I did some live streaming stuff from twitter, it can go really really fast
<Azelphur> AlanBell: piping tweets from a specific user into an IRC channel
<AlanBell> nice
<tiim> I have a friend who tweets too often
<tiim> https://twitter.com/#!/emmabung
<AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~alanbell/+junk/circleoffriends my streaming client
<Azelphur> tiim: lol
<Azelphur> AlanBell: cool, I'm using the tweetstream library
<Azelphur> in python
<AlanBell> I might have another hack at that some day and make it more of a twitter wall client, so just for presentation of tweets rather than as a twitter client you would use
<tiim> I don't get twitter. It's good for posting links if you blog, but... not as good as RSS. Otherwise it seems hard to say anything worth saying in n letters
<AlanBell> Azelphur: you could follow the stream of people who are surprised that Titanic was real
<Azelphur> haha
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Calligra Released - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4567
<Riddell> ooh it's me
<bigcalm> Fame at last!
<majster-pl> http://ubuntuone.com/0Yi8BrAKRrPYiuEMEvTsQt  anyone have this wallpaper problem ? gnome 3.4
<ali1234> never seen anything like that with unity
<ali1234> but the wallpaper is done by nautilus afaik so it should look the same
<majster-pl> hmm.. its looks ok after restart... but after some time of normal using desktop its going like on picture...
<ali1234> it looks like a scaling issue
<ali1234> like there's two copies of the wallpaper... can't really think of a reason why that would happen
<ali1234> are you running a program that changes the screen mode or using an external display or anything like that?
<majster-pl> no I can think of... its fresh ubuntu install
<majster-pl> all I installed is gnome-shell advance-settings compiz-config
<majster-pl> the wallpaper looks ok when I go to preview mode.
<majster-pl> ali1234, here is what happen when I change wallpaper
<majster-pl> http://ubuntuone.com/0u4bUHXv04IKKVikuR768b
<ali1234> ok so it looks like you have two copies of nautilus running in desktop mode and with different screen sizes
<ali1234> you should open a bug, and include a link to that video
<majster-pl> ok will do it now
<ali1234> did you run anything as root/sudo?
<majster-pl> only apt-get
<ali1234> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=614682
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 614682 in libgnome-desktop "Gnome 2.30 displays wallpaper twice" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
<ali1234> looks very similar
<ali1234> please link the bug report when you've done it
<majster-pl> should I reported under gnome-shell package ?
<ali1234> report it under nautilus
<majster-pl> ok
<ali1234> just run "ubuntu-bug nautilus" from shell
<majster-pl> ok
<ali1234> can you also please attach output of "xrandr"
<ali1234> if it isn't already
<majster-pl> here it is, sorry but its my first bug report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/979416
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 979416 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Two copies of the wallpaper running simultaneously [video]" [Undecided,New]
<ali1234> ok that's a good start :)
<majster-pl> ;-)
<ali1234> i'm going to attach a bug watch to that gnome bug
<majster-pl> ok I attached xrander output to it...
<ali1234> hmm... yes that shows only one defined monitor... so i am stumped really
<ali1234> hopefully the gnome experts can fix it
<majster-pl> we'll see... fingers crossed :D
<ali1234> you might want to subscribe to the gnome bug, and maybe confirm it...
<majster-pl> what is best way to subscribe it to gnome team ?
<ali1234> just subscribe yourself :)
<ali1234> i'm not sure it's the same bug now...
<ali1234> well, we'll see
<ali1234> there's this bug too https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/804435
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 804435 in GTK+ "Wallpaper is loaded twice with different alignment by gnome-session and nautilus (Oneiric)" [Medium,Fix released]
<ali1234> but that claims to be fixed
<majster-pl> true
<majster-pl> ali1234, thanks for your help and I will wait and see...
<majster-pl> now time for bed
<majster-pl> bye
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/bug/971130
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 966417 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #971130 Application launch time increased with type-to-search in unity 5.8" [High,Fix committed]
<ali1234> bug 971130
<ali1234> bug 966417
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 966417 in unity (Ubuntu) "Application launch time increased with type-to-search in unity 5.8" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/966417
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-12
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Further Ubuntu Accomplishments Progress - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/04/12/further-ubuntu-accomplishments-progress/
<diplo> morning all
<dwatkins> hiya
<dogmatic69> o/
<dwatkins> \o
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> morning
<daubers> Any woodworky types around? After recommendations on how to finish a laser cut thing I'm working on
<dogmatic69> daubers: I used to own a furniture manufacturing company if that counts
<daubers> dogmatic69: It does!
<dogmatic69> what you wanna know?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Gears! Lots and lots of gears.
<daubers> dogmatic69: I've been told that beeswax is ok, but have no idea if that would work on laser cut ply or how to apply it :)
<dogmatic69> depending on your needs, give it a good sanding. smooth all the edges etc
<dogmatic69> beeswax / oil is way more effort than varnish, but in the long run less
<daubers> More effort to apply, but less effort to look after?
<dogmatic69> ye, exactly
<dogmatic69> varnish, especially outside items will require sanding down and reapplying in time, using oil it is just a matter of rubbing more on now and again
<dogmatic69> what is the item?
<daubers> It's a laptop stand :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning
<daubers> o/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daubers> dogmatic69: Was looking at something like http://www.briwax.co.uk/products/beeswax.html
<dogmatic69> daubers: something that should be fine.
<dogmatic69> I have not specifically used beeswax, but that has linseed oil also. One of the things I have been told / done for oiling stuff is every day for a week, every week for a month and then every month for a year. If you follow that you would never have to do anything again
<daubers> Cool :)
<JamesTait> G'mornin' all! :D
<daubers> o/
 * daubers may need to pop out for more paracetamol
 * dogmatic69 has a small pharmacy going 
<meet> i have got a 10 yr old pc with winxp. was planning to install ubuntu 10.10 (as i experienced it to be less resource consuming.) but should i go with lubuntu ?
<dwatkins> What spec is the machine, in terms of CPU speed and RAM, meet? Also, how much disk space do you have available?
<meet> i got 40 gb hard drive which is half filled i guess. 512mb ram. pentium 4 processor
<dwatkins> What speed is the CPU?
<meet> 1.6 ghz i think
<dwatkins> I'm running 10.04 on an Atom-based machine, it's hyperthreaded, so probably runs a bit better than your P4, but the core is 1.6 GHz and it's got a 16 GB root partition. It's got a gig of RAM, though, that might be the best and simplest thing to upgrade.
<popey> meet: 10.10 went out of support this week
<bigcalm> Install 10.04 and you'll get a little bit of support
<dwatkins> I'm not aware of a huge difference between 10.04 and 11.04 in terms of requirements, might actually be better to have a newer version.
<gord> i've got atoms on 12.04 that work well
<popey> not with 512MB RAM you don't :)(
<popey> I have two 900MHz celerons running 12.04 âº
<dwatkins> meet: ultimately, you may end up spending more each year in electricity if you're running that P4 than if you bought an Atom-based system.
<dwatkins> My old 1 GHz AMD-based system cost me over 200 pounds a year in power alone to run constantly
<dwatkins> 160 Watts
<bigcalm> I miss how quiet the Revo is. Wondering if I shall move the ProLiant to another part of the house and use Ethernet over Power. Maybe even the garage...
<popey> its not _that_ loud!
<popey> well, maybe the N40L is?
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> I don't have a sound meter to test
<daubers> dogmatic69: Thanks for the advice :) Will take a trip to the diy shop this evening
<gord> yeah you want more than 512mb for 12.04
<gord> apart from that, it should work fine
<dwatkins> I'd show my phpsysinfo, meet, but it's largely unexciting, and the fact it says I have 20 MB RAM free is slightly misleading.
<dwatkins> That reminds me, I should put munin back online.
<bigcalm> popey: still haven't decided if I need to replace the 2gb with 8gb. What's your opinion
<bigcalm> ?
 * dwatkins ponders a Linksys router with the Tomato firmware
<meet> the thing is that pc is hardly used except by my mom. and she complains often of the sluggishness of the winxp. and i find no reason to upgrade the hardware. so for those lightweight, simplistic approach which is better?
<bigcalm> meet: a new and very cheap machine will save you a lot of grief and money in the long run
<popey> bigcalm: i have one with 8GB, one with 1GB
<popey> meet: lubuntu
<bigcalm> popey: how much of the 8gb is in use?
<dwatkins> Dell's outlet website is a good place to look for a cheap barebones machine.
<popey> bigcalm: dunno, its just been rebooted, so not much
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> As has mine
<meet> but the thought of cheapest cheap ugraded using linux is bringing out the miser in me :D
<bigcalm> Last thing that needs moving from the Revo are my parents' backups, then I can leave the ProLiant on 24/7
<dwatkins> meet: what kind of upgrade? imho, you probably ony need to upgrade the RAM.
<popey> it will still be slow
<popey> my mum has an Acer Aspire Revo 3600 as her only computer
<dwatkins> yeah, I'm just thinking what's required to run Ubuntu as opposed to an ideal replacement
<dwatkins> bare minimum would be 1 GB, I imagine.
<meet> dwatkins i think the motherboard wont support extra ram..
<dwatkins> aw shame
<bigcalm> I keep quick-reading that line as "my mother won't support extra ram"
<bigcalm> I think I need coffee
 * dwatkins downloads lubuntu out of curiosity
<dwatkins> "Minimum requirements for lubuntu are comparable to Pentium II or Celeron systems with a 128 Mb RAM configuration, which may yield a slow yet usable system with lubuntu."
<dwatkins> I'm interested to see how well it performs if I give the virtual machine only 128 MB RAM.
<gord> Myrtti, you might appreciate as much as me http://i.imgur.com/ObdfG.jpg
<Myrtti> oh wow
<Myrtti> instant wallpaper material
<dwatkins> Miyazaki++
<Myrtti> I don't recognise the biker lady in the camouflage overalls, but the rest looks familiar
<dwatkins> That's an awesome pic, gord :)
<bigcalm> \o/
<Myrtti> nor the ninjas
<bigcalm> I have a magnetic paw Jiji :)
<bigcalm> And a cuddly Totoro, sadly missing an eye :(
<dwatkins> I'm not aware of the cat bus, looks a little strange.
<gord> then you should make My Neighbour Totoro the next movie you watch :)
<bigcalm> Neko Bus?
<bigcalm> Really
<bigcalm> :D
<directhex> mine's on region 1
<Myrtti> NEKO BUS!
<directhex> so i can't just watch it
<directhex> i did rip it though...
<gord> i have the entire ghibli collection, complete! they are numbed by the publisher 1-16. until Arrietty which came out recently. which they gave the number "6". i already have a six, ruined everything
<gord> need to print out my own fixed cover or something
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> What are the 2 characters to the left of Sen?
<bigcalm> I'm struggling to place them
<bigcalm> One of them is pointing
<directhex> bigcalm, where's sen? i'm lost
<directhex> aha, found her
<directhex> no idea!
<gord> bigcalm, the mouse and the fly? they are the giant heads transmogrified
<meet> where can i find the .deb of softwares installed through software center
<MartijnVdS> meet: /var/cache/apt/archives
<MartijnVdS> meet: why do you need them?
<MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
<meet> i want to install them on another computer
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<MartijnVdS> meet: So use the software center!
<meet> i got a very slow internet connection. so it takes a lot of time to dowload
<meet> so i was planning to install the .deb using synaptic by which i guess only the dependencies will be needed to be downloaded
<popey> meet: install squid-deb-proxy on one, and squid-deb-proxy-client on all
<popey> it will then cache them
<bigcalm> gord: no, the 2 people all in grey and wearing masks
<meet> popey i did not get it
<popey> meet: did not get what?
<meet> "it will then cache them"
<gord> oh they drew her twice
<bigcalm> gord: Sen is riding Haku
<popey> squid-deb-proxy is a package you install on one of your machines, it acts as a proxy server which is autodiscovered by apt / software centre etc
<bigcalm> popey: work are going to pay for ram and hard drives :D
<popey> on every machine install squid-deb-proxy-client and they will then use the proxy. thats it
<popey> when you install apps on any machine it goes through the proxy which stores them and then hands them out to other machines when they ask for them
<popey> thus reducing your internet usage
<meet> oh. got the general idea. is squid easy to use?
<popey> there is no "use"
<popey> you just install those packages and forget
<popey> the is no additional stuff you need to do at all
<meet> because first of all i will have to setup a network between ubuntu and lubuntu(which i am planning to install)
<popey> yeah, they need to be on the same network
<sw> popey: nice tip!
 * sw looks
<dwatkins> heh, vmware fusion has an option called 'unity'
<boncey> Hello, I have a grub problem with my Ubuntu server (10.04.4 LTS) - each reboot since the last kernel update just goes to the grub prompt
<boncey> I've put more details here: http://askubuntu.com/questions/121008/server-boots-to-grub-prompt-after-reboot
<meet> popey i just created a bootable usb for ubuntu. i will test drive ubuntu on a old machine. what all aspects should i check?
<boncey> I'm guessing there might be something screwy in my grub.cfg that's telling it not to boot the first kernel list but I can't see what it might be
<popey> meet: the things you're likely to use I guess âº
<bigcalm> Hail again. Such happy weather
<meet>  popey: :) but any other technical aspects? which might not be visible instantly but may give problems afterwards
<popey> meet: pass, just play with it till you break it
 * bigcalm pulls his hoody up, despite being in his office
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> bigcalm: wanna swap? I'm sitting between two laptops, so I get hot air blasted into my face
<dwatkins> hiya brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<bigcalm> dwatkins: you're alright ta ;)
<dwatkins> hmmm, Kwik Fit have taken to calling me to offer me a service and MOT, but I doubt the car needs servicing.
<dwatkins> I'm more concerned with my bicycle and whether I can run Ubuntu on it ;)
<dwatkins> I'm also trying to run lubuntu, but it's either very slow, or simply isn't responding
<boncey> I've been over the config files used to build grub.cfg and they're unchanged from the installed defaults as far as I can tell
<dwatkins> boncey: I assume you're using grub2-update or something similar to install the changes. What are the actual symptoms, and can you manually boot the partition? Can you boot the second option?
<dwatkins> oh sorry, you said it just goes to the prompt
<boncey> dwatkins: I've run sudo update-grub after it boots (several times in fact)
<boncey> dwatkins:  I can manually boot using the usual grub commands
<dwatkins> boncey: do you have /grub on a separate partition?
<dwatkins> sorry, /boot
<boncey> dwatkins: Nope, all a single partition
<dwatkins> There's an update-grub and an update-grub2, I always wondered if they're different.
<boncey> update-grub indicates that it's writing grub.cfg and finds my kernel images so it certainly seems like the right thing
<dwatkins> I assume the relevant files then get a new timestamp, too.
<boncey> dwatkins: Will check now
<boncey> dwatkins: Yes, timestamp of grub.matches from my last attempt yesterday
<dwatkins> my machine appears to think it has an msdos partition: set root='(hd1,msdos1)'
<dwatkins> aha, my partition ID is 7, NTFS ;)
<dwatkins> boncey: how do you get to the console?
<davmor2> morning all
<boncey> dwatkins: I have a remote KVM hookup
<boncey> It's in a data centre 100  miles away
<dwatkins> boncey: ah ok, not a serial connection, you're essentially seeing what's on the VGA output, or are you using a BMC?
<dwatkins> (some BMCs do remote display in software, although it's pretty close to remote VGA forwarding)
<directhex> dwatkins, i think in context it means MS-DOS partition table (aka MBR) not the filetype in the partition
<boncey> Bah, power cut - did I miss anything?
<dwatkins> directhex: makes sense
<dwatkins> boncey: I was wondering what kind of BMC or console redirection you're using
<dwatkins> (just in case it's relevant to your grub problems)
<boncey> dwatkins: It's a remote KVM from a company called Raritan
<dwatkins> I *think* lubuntu is still booting, it's been reading from the ISO image for the last hour or so.
<boncey> dwatkins: I don't know much more than that
<dwatkins> boncey: does it take the physical VGA connector output and process it, or do something internally to the machine?
<dwatkins> ah ok, no worries.
<oimon> guys, if i click on an icon in the unity launcher, shouldn't it switch view to that window?
<dwatkins> boncey: I think it shouldn't make any difference, this is from their website: "any hardware that supports standard PC keyboard and mouse interfaces, and standard PC video (VGA) can be used with Dominion KX II-101."
<AlanBell> no, it switches to that "application" which raises all windows of that application whether or not you actually want it to.
<oimon> AlanBell, doesn't do either for me
<oimon> clicking on pidgin, does nothing
<AlanBell> is it minimised?
<popey> is it already on screen and visible?
<boncey> dwatkins: It's a Dominion KX G1, PDF here if you want to know more: http://kvmswitchdirect.co.uk/PDFs/DKX-0H-E.pdf
<oimon> no, AlanBell
<oimon> no popey
<oimon> on another workspace
<popey> do you have any pidgin windows on this workspace?
<dwatkins> boncey: yeah, looks like it takes the VGA signal and compresses it over IP
<mungojerry> hmm seems to be a serious bug
<mungojerry> i minimised my windows looking for pidgin other window
<dwatkins>  grub ubuntu
<dwatkins> oops
<mungojerry> then couldn't switch back to xchat
<popey> mungojerry: what version of ubuntu?
<mungojerry> unity launcher or alt-tab would not display my xchat chatting window
<mungojerry> 12.04
<popey> have you updated today?
<mungojerry> alt-tab would bot choose ubuntu either
<mungojerry> popey, woops, i installed from usb, but it seems not to have installed updates during installation
<mungojerry> back in a bit :P
<mungojerry> silly boy
<mungojerry> is there a tweak that enables dodge, or has that code been removed from unity?
<popey> the latter
<mungojerry> :(
<popey> meh
<popey> bug 930148 for lengthy bikeshedding
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 930148 in unity (Ubuntu) "Dodge windows is down but what about making the launcher autohide only on maximised apps ?" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930148
<ali1234> far too simple and obvious
<ali1234> dodge is actually really pointless
<ali1234> just hide it always
<mungojerry> many people including myself prefer dodge as their favourite
<mungojerry> or intellihide as docky calls it
<MooDoo> why are bloomin motorbikes so heavy.grrrr
<mungojerry> heavy motorbikes are heavy
<davmor2> MooDoo: it's called an engine
<MooDoo> mungojerry: especially when you have to push one for a mile and a bit
<MooDoo> davmor2: bloomin thing
<davmor2> MooDoo: you want a push bike much lighter :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah but that can't go 80 :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: you've not seen the ones with surf board sails then have you :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: maybe i'll look into that as they don't need petrol, apparently motorbikes do, who knew?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Have you thought about a tatoo on your hand that says check petrol?
<MooDoo> davmor2: thinking about it
<MooDoo> davmor2: more like one that says d*** head
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm pretty sure you missed and a then, "more like one of those days 'a'head" :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm a silly, un happy bunny....lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: on a plus side (well at least for us) if this is the start of the day and it tends to go down from there I can't wait to find out what happens for the rest of the day
<MooDoo> davmor2: you're a lovely man, what people say about you is so true :p
<czajkowski> *grin*
<MooDoo> shush czajkowski don't say a word ;)
<davmor2> haha
<oimon> popey, i think the updates fixed my issue, thanks
<popey> np
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski right that's it i'm sulking and not going to oggcamp and buying you a beer
<davmor2> MooDoo: that's fine I don't drink beer :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: oh always the last word.....:p
<MooDoo> davmor2: are you going to oggcamp by the way?
<bigcalm> Still waiting for accommodation details
<czajkowski> bigcalm: patience :)
<MooDoo> :D
<czajkowski> if you don't know nobody knows so you're safe :)
<bigcalm> Hayley and I have a 4 day weekend booked so we can enjoy some of Liverpool as well. Need to make sure we get somewhere nice to stay :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: just take you're own box for the doorway and you're set surely?
<MooDoo> it's in my diary so that i actually go, i think i owe people beer and it's about time i paid up
<czajkowski> I'll just need a translator for the weekend cannot understand that accent
<MooDoo> czajkowski: no one does, so you'll be ok
<davmor2> czajkowski: de Liiiiiiverpooooooooool axcent es grrrrrrrreat, I don't know what's wrong with you :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: eh? eh? eh?  you fytin?
<JohnRobert> anyone know if the cambridge lug is dead?
<JohnRobert> seems pretty dead to me
<oimon> woops i ran unity --reset and lost my settings - how to disable the launcher on the 2nd screen?
<oimon> ah, fixed it
<AlanBell> in the display settings now, it is quite nice
<AlanBell> except you can't have it on the right on the right screen which would be nicer
<dwatkins> lubuntu runs a lot better with 512 MB compared to 128 MB... who knew? ;)
<dwatkins> (I gave up waiting for X to start after 2 hours)
<AlanBell> all the code is there to have the launcher on the right, if you have a RTL language then it goes on the right
<oimon> OK one more unity question...can i get unity integration for pidgin so that it shows the number of new messages like the thunderbird icon on the launcher?
<zleap> hello
<sw> oimon: Preferences -> Interface -> System Tray Icon -> Show system tray icon -> 'Always'
<sw> oimon: you might need to do '$ gsettings set com.canonical.Unity.Panel systray-whitelist "['all']"' after
<oimon> sw, thanks but that's not what i meant
<oimon> i meant unity launcher integration
<oimon> so that it shows the number of received messages actually on top of the pidgin icon on the launcher
<davmor2> MooDoo: Nyo jus' sayin' eh?eh?eh?
<MooDoo> davmor2: :)
<sw> oimon: '$ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:jfi/pidgin && sudo apt-get install pidgin-libnotify'
<sw> oimon: first result on Google: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/how-to-display-unread-pidgin-count-on-unity-launcher/
<MooDoo> hi all, can you recommend a decent tablet to get the misses for her birthday not IPAD though
<daubers> MooDoo: http://ohsweb.ohiohistory.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=482&g2_serialNumber=6 <- quite nice
<MooDoo> smart ass
<boncey> dwatkins: I'm going to try adding a dummy entry to the grub menu (in /etc/grub.d/40_custom) just to see if it's updating the grub.cfg correctly
<daubers> MooDoo: These have cool monsters! http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/345626683/antique_stone_tablet.jpg
<MooDoo> oh for goodness sake :p
 * justso twiddles his thumbs
<dwatkins> boncey: good call
<boncey> dwatkins: Success! It boots
<dwatkins> hooray
<boncey> dwatkins: I followed the tip here http://serverfault.com/questions/243343/headless-ubuntu-server-machine-sometimes-stuck-at-grub-menu
<boncey> Which seems to be good advice for headless servers anyway
<dwatkins> aha, didn't realise it disabled its own timeout
<boncey> Yeah, pretty stupid
<dwatkins> yeah, I'd prefer my headless machine not to get stuck at grub
<boncey> Considering its a server install
<boncey> Going to reboot again to be sure
<boncey> Yup, problem solved
<boncey> Thanks for help and advice, got me thinking in the right areas
<AlanBell> MooDoo: I want the transformer prime, but I am waiting for the new version with the high resolution screen
<popey> interesting that the new one isn't tegra but omap
<dwatkins> boncey: excellent
<AlanBell> popey: S4 Krait
<AlanBell> is that going to be any good? dual core, but faster than the quad core tegra
<popey> oh â¹
<AlanBell> is that bad?
<popey> *shrug*
<popey> I'd be surprised if it was faster than tegra 3
<directhex> isn't tegra really backwards? like missing any useful NEON stuff or something?
<directhex> because you're meant to use the gpu, not floating point numbers
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_%28system_on_chip%29
<popey> http://eee.asus.com/eeepad/transformer-infinity/features/
<popey> says it does have tegra3
<AlanBell> comes in two variants, one with tegra3, one with Krait
<popey> ah
<popey> thats mental
<popey> uber fragmentation
<popey> choice i susppose is good â¨
<popey> never seen an ipad user ask what SoC is in the device âº
<AlanBell> well it isn't out yet
<AlanBell> and most users won't care what SoC is in the device, it will just run Android
<AlanBell> I want to put Ubuntu on it obviously
<directhex> popey, that's because apple advertise their SoC up front.
<directhex> big section on http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/features/
<AlanBell> http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/02/27/mwc-2012-asus-unveils-the-transformer-pad-infinity-tf700t-packs-tegra-3-or-snapdragon-s4-under-a-1920x1200-super-ips-display/
<AlanBell> do I care about LTE?
<gord> my 1ghz nexus one still seems to get the job done well enough, not convinced by this suping up of cpus in phones
<AlanBell> yeah, it is pointless, which is why ubuntu for android is a good idea
<AlanBell> the OEMs need a reason to explain why they are sticking quad core CPUs in phones so that you throw away the old and busted and buy the new hotness
<AlanBell> not sure I want cellular in a tablet at all really, maybe the tegra3 without LTE is the option to go for if they actually sell them as options (I suspect they will drop one variant)
<shauno> I'd love cellular in tablet, if roaming data in the EU wasn't such a *cough*
<AlanBell> I am quite happy with wireless tethering to my phone
<justso> I'm having difficulty sending files to my windows network ... anyone have ideas what could be wrong ?
<justso> I can send from this machine when booted in windows
<justso> (being a noob sucks)
<dwatkins> 'send' in what sense, justso?
<bigcalm> What make of harddrive do people here like and what do you avoid?
<justso> I cannot send a file from ubuntu into a windows shared folder which has permissions set to alter or modify contents
<davmor2> bigcalm: I like the one that comes in the machine I buy :P
<bigcalm> Next!
<davmor2> justso: do you see the folder from the Ubuntu box?
<bigcalm> This is for a RAID 1
<justso> yes I can pull files from the shared folder but not send any back ... I just get "permission denied"
<dwatkins> justso: are you logging on as guest or as a user?
<justso> as a user
<dwatkins> I assume that user has rights both to the share and the relevant directories, justso
<justso> ohhh forget it I just tried again and it worked perfectly lol
<justso> quirky
<justso> I figured it out dwatkins ... it was just a bad filename that windows presumably couldnt handle
<justso> thanks for the help
<ali1234> hmm
<dwatkins> aha I see, justso
<bigcalm> Is it possible to move an existing 1 hdd install over to a RAID 1 setup?
<popey> kinda
<bigcalm> Would I be better off reinstalling once I have the 2 drives?
<popey> chuck second disk in, make it a raid 1 with one missing disk, copy over, then add the first disk in as the second disk in the array
<popey> probably quicker to reinstall yeah
<popey> depends on whats on it
<popey> I have done this migration myself
 * popey looks for his notes
<bigcalm> Current drive is going to be sitting on a shelf as a last choice backup
<JohnRobert> has anyone actually got a raspberry pi yet?
<oimon> upgraded my work PC to 12.04 today
<popey> bigcalm: http://pastebin.com/z5AE8DyR
<JohnRobert> does flash video playing fullscreen still allow the screensaver to come on in ubuntu?
<popey> pastebinned from my old wiki
<JohnRobert> shudder
<JohnRobert> :p
<popey> JohnRobert: RS have sent out a couple of beta boards
<popey> mine isn't due to arrive till next week
<JohnRobert> heh
<JohnRobert> yeah my brother in law ordered one, then got vexed with the slowness
<JohnRobert> I was going to order one but saw there was a 56 day wait or something like that
<popey> tempted to order a pandaboard ES and use that to build an ubuntu image (slowly) for raspberry pi
<bigcalm> popey: you're right. Might be simpler/easier to do a fresh install :)
<bigcalm> Which is fine
<JohnRobert> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/120896
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 120896 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "inhibit the screensaver when playing a video" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
<JohnRobert> :
<JohnRobert> :/
<JohnRobert> ugh
<oimon> any pidgin users in 12.04 experience very slow scrolling?
<davmor2> oimon: nope sorry I use empathy and xchat
<popey> empathy and irssi here
<davmor2> I was tempted to look at empathy for irc as it's improved but during tests I found out that improved mean you didn't cry from pounding your skull against the table so much
<oimon> hmm, maybe it's just the general performance of the system after a couple of hours
<oimon> nippy when you boot, but gets sluggish later
<davmor2> oimon: run top or htop and check out what's using memory
<oimon> animations and switching no longer smooth
<oimon> cpu and mem are OK
<AlanBell> popey: why would the pandaboard ES be the thing to build on?
<popey> as opposed to?
<AlanBell> the raspberry pi itself, or cross compile from an intel box
<popey> pandaboard is easier to get hold of
<AlanBell> this may be a daft question
<popey> and faster
<popey> AIUI
<oracology> AlanBell: i don't know much about these things, but i would suspect it would be hella faster to cross-compile on something beefy?
<popey> which when compiling a lot of stuff would matter
<AlanBell> this is probably a sensible thing to do on amazon EC2
<directhex> ikonia, success!
<directhex> ikonia, you paid for special delivery on the 7th? it's only shown up today
<oimon> hmm global menu fails on dual monitors :-\
<popey> fails how?
<bigcalm> I should try my laptop with a 2nd monitor
<oimon> terminal maximised on screen1 , thunderbird maximised on screen 2, but title bar shows thunderbird on both monitors. so if you want to click to focus, you have to click somewhere in the window which is sometimes undesirable (rahter than the title bar)
<oimon> when it shows one window title across 2 screens, it's incorrect
<oimon> if you have a maximised app on each screen
<oimon> however, in other news, a unity 2d bug has just been fixed #940590 which alows me to revert to gnome classic + 2d launcher - hence no global menu or LH buttons
<oimon> bug 940590
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 940590 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "Unity 2-d launcher doesn't hide or display properly" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940590
<diplo> Anyone know the lp command to check to see if a queue exists or not within cups /
<diplo> ?
<oimon> lpstat -s ?
<diplo> just found lpstat -v
<diplo> Basically I want to add it to my bash script to check it exists before trying to delete it
<diplo> -s lits all it seems
 * bigcalm returns with tea and poptarts
<diplo> lists*
<diplo>  lpstat -v $queuename 2>&1
<diplo>   if [[ $? -eq 0 ]]; then
<diplo> That'll do :)
<bigcalm> then that'll do?
<bigcalm> Please stop me from looking at mobile phone reviews
<bigcalm> The handset I probably want isn't out yet
<diplo> S3?
<bigcalm> I will be strong and not just get the htc one x
<bigcalm> diplo: yes
<diplo> heh, I want it but cannot afford it
<diplo> So will stay with my woefully underpowered wildfire
<bigcalm> How do you know that? It isn't out yet
<diplo> Until I either have a large payout or find a rich girlfriend
<diplo> Because if it's > Â£50 I can't afford it!
<diplo> If I want my kids to eat etc
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> Eating is for chumps!
<diplo> I don't eat, kids eat more than me.. why I've lost 5/6 stone :)
<bigcalm> I've just spent 347 quid on 2 new tyres. I shouldn't even be looking at new things for a few months yet
<bigcalm> Wow
<bigcalm> One way to diet
<diplo> heh, I need 4 tyres for my car :(
<diplo> 2 desperatly, 2 close
<bigcalm> Front 2 were 1.6mm and 2mm. I had no choice
<diplo> Oooh home time
<diplo> Catch you laters
<bigcalm> Another hour to go yet, and I'm already at home
<bigcalm> There is no escaping work :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: that is ridiculous
<bigcalm> Isn't it just?
<davmor2> bigcalm: do you know the dimensions for them?
<bigcalm> For what?
<davmor2> bigcalm: the tyres
<bigcalm> I've already spent the money, so little point looking them up :)
<bigcalm> 215/55R17
<bigcalm> They are large and there's little choice
<AlanBell> I need some new tyres, thinking of getting a set of alloy wheels
 * popey mentions http://www.stemnorthofscotland.com/events/highland-innovation-event.html
<popey> for the scotts
<AlanBell> fed up of hub caps
<davmor2> bigcalm: there's a reason I'm asking the is a likelihood that the 308sw will have similar sized wheels is what I'm thinking
<bigcalm> AlanBell: fed up of losing them?
<bigcalm> davmor2: oh, I see :)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, I have nasty cheap halfords ones now, the mercedes hub caps were really expensive to replace
<bigcalm> Pirelli 306.71 + balancing 10 + disposal 3.29 + wheel alignment 27 + vat
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I've managed to scuff my alloys, doesn't show that much but will be expensive to fix
<bigcalm> Hub caps can be replaced
<popey> mine are properly scuffed up
<popey> i dont care
<bigcalm> But alloys are meant to be lighter and thus save you fuel
<AlanBell> I am not bothered about scuffs
<davmor2> bigcalm: ouch you got charged for balancing and disposal, that'll be the price hike dude, 91.95 each tyre + 18 alignment + vat here and that is at ATS, Martini Tyres would be cheaper still
<gordonjcp> I'm just glad I no longer need W-rated tyres
<gordonjcp> the price of those resulted in some very non-CoC-compliant language
<bigcalm> davmor2: you are looking at different tyres if they are 91.95 each. And this was at ATS as well
<davmor2> bigcalm: this is where I'm looking http://shop.atseuromaster.co.uk/eshop/en_GB/searchByTyreByUrl/section/215/aspectRatio/55/rimDiameter/17/xl/false/rf/false
<bigcalm> I see
<bigcalm> I wouldn't go for budgets myself
<davmor2> bigcalm: no but even the Continentals are only 130
<popey> hmm, i need to use 11.04 for some hardware
 * popey installs dualboot
<bigcalm> davmor2: http://shop.atseuromaster.co.uk/eshop/en_GB/products/pirelli/p7/215-55-17-94-W-1-4IB-1261/mode/beforebuyingsequence/currentPosition/16
<bigcalm> davmor2: I went with what was in stock when I went this lunch time
<davmor2> bigcalm: this is the advantage I have, I can walk over the road to ATS or Martini tyres
<bigcalm> Yay, Hayley home!
<davmor2> Hayley slap bigcalm
<bigcalm> This is one of those times when I'm glad that she isn't on IRC
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah cause tyres are always a fiver right ;)
<bigcalm> No, I was referring to you telling her to slap me
<directhex> bigcalm, i invested in michelin energy savers. they decrease your mpg on a hybrid... but they're good for 20-30k miles easy
<gordonjcp> directhex: they probably do improve your braking distance though
<gordonjcp> directhex: the ones that Priuses come with as stock *do* have very low rolling resistance, but are a bit like driving on teflon O-rings
<directhex> gordonjcp, they changed the default tyre from when i got it to now
<directhex> gordonjcp, fronts haven't been stock for a while though, had a blowout so had to get whatever i could at short notice. yokohama c.drive 2
<directhex> well regarded tyre in every area except durability where they get 1/10 ratings
<davmor2> bigcalm: you know you want it, you know you need it and it save czajkowski stretching to do it ;)
<ali1234> freecell - they need to disassemble the code and figure out why only one hand is unwinnable
<ali1234> i suspect that if the hands were totally random then most of them would be unwinnable and therefore the game would suck
<ali1234> so there must be an algorithm that builds up the hand with reversed legal moves only, at random
<ali1234> kind of like how they make sudoku puzzles
<ali1234> but that would give 100% winnable
<ali1234> so then as an easter egg, programmer put in one unwinnable hand, and then put in that seemingly throw away line in the help, as a joke
<popey> hmmm
<popey> laptop -> displayport -> hdmi cable -> black magic intensity pro capture card -> http://popey.com/~alan/laptop.tga  (8MB, sorry)
<popey> laptop -> Printscreen button -> http://popey.com/~alan/laptop.png
<ali1234> -> magical goblins?
<popey> note the horrid colour on the tga file
<popey> i have switched antialiasing from rgba to greyscale which improves it a bit
<popey> but it's all very over saturated
<ali1234> yeah that's subpixel antialiasing
<ali1234> it does not look over saturated to me
<popey> the tga looks brighter
<ali1234> the tga looks identical to my desktop
<ali1234> except for the fringes
<popey> what about the alternate lines of emails?
<popey> on the png it's white/grey alternate emails
<popey> tga it's all white
<ali1234> hmm
<popey> i have them both open in image viewer, alt-tabbing between
<popey> difference is noticable
<ali1234> the png is really blurry
 * popey tries again with anti-aliasing turned off competely
<popey> rather than greyscale
<ali1234> i dont think that is why
<ali1234> is that an nvidia machine?
<popey> intel
<popey> my x220
<ali1234> what comes out the HDMI port is not 1:1 what is in the framebuffer
<ali1234> nvidia has all kinds of gamma correction controls
<ali1234> i bet intel does too
<popey> hah, disabling anti-aliasing killed gnome-settings-daemon
<ali1234> does that box has linux drivers yet?
<popey> the intensity pro?
<popey> yes
<popey> I installed 11.04 to run their software
<ali1234> cool. i better get one then
<popey> ali1234: would this mean xorg.conf fiddles? or just xgamma ?
<ali1234> on nvidia it means loading up nvidia-settings *shrug*
<ali1234> and then everyone wonders why nvidia won't support xorg standards...
<dogmatic69> I am using remmina remote desktop to windows vista pc, anyone know how to make the scroll wheel work?
<dogmatic69> I think it is bound to scrolling the screen when it is too big or something, but the scree size is good and I would like to scroll the browser / document on the remote pc
<ali1234> what happened to the front page of the dash with the 4 big icons?
<popey> removed
<ali1234> ok. well, i never liked it anyway tbh
<ali1234> you know the "wait for search" thing
<popey> bug 885738
<ali1234> well, now it remembers your last search
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 885738 in Ayatana Design "Dash - Remove Dash Home shortcut icons" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885738
<ali1234> if you click the bfb and don't type anything you can't immediately press enter
<ali1234> and because there is no search to complete, you can't press enter at all
<ali1234> is this reported?
<popey> not that I'm aware
<ali1234> new bug report or tack it on the old one?
<ali1234> i'll do a new one
<ali1234> this is just with main unity, not the ppa
<popey> do you want to press enter because the first icon is what you want?
<ali1234> yes
<popey> ok
<popey> yeah, you have to press down down enter
<popey> or mouse
<ali1234> istr  "just type the first few letters and press enter, you don't have to wait, it's so easy and fast"
<ali1234> what happened to that one?
<popey> gimmie an example?
<popey> i think i know what you're saying
<ali1234> an example?
<popey> dash -> ima (image viewer) -> enter
<popey> dont wait for search to finish
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you do dash -> search for program -> wait -> enter (this works)
<ali1234> then you do dash -> (search is saved) -> press enter -> nothing happens
<bigcalm> If you don't wait, it doesn't load the 1st result :(
<ali1234> and in the second part, you can wait as long as you want
<ali1234> since it's already cached the search, it never "completes" so enter is blocked forever
<popey> oh, i see
<popey> yes, you're right
<popey> file it I'll confirm it
<bigcalm> There are chickens in the castle
<popey> uhoh
<popey> bigcalm: are you saying same as ali1234 or a different thing?
<bigcalm> popey: I came in on part of a convo without reading up :)
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> In my expereince so far (not on the machine atm though), typing sky[enter] does nothing. I have to wait a moment and then try again
<popey> thats fixed
<popey> i filed that
<popey> just tested and it works
<bigcalm> There are dead chickens in the coop, no eggs
<popey> i do appreciate these bug discussions!
<ali1234> bug 980184
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 980184 in unity (Ubuntu) "dash doesn't ever respond to <enter> when the previous search is recalled" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/980184
<ali1234> feel free to try to explain it better :)
<popey> confirmed
<popey> i am miles from the castle
<popey> need to walk back
<czajkowski> I take it this is minecraft and popey isn't lost in woods far away from some remote castle with just his iphone to get him home
<gord> i wouldn't put it past popey
<directhex> ikonia, ping
<joos> hello
<justso> I can't seem to adjust the mouse double click time in ubuntu 11.10 ... is this a bug ?
<MartijnVdS> justso: not even in the accessibility bits?
<MartijnVdS> justso: also.. in the mouse settings I have a "doubleclick" option (12.04)
<justso> in the mouse setting I have set it to be tap.......tap but it still needs to be t,tap in normal use
<MartijnVdS> tap? you mean touchpad double click?
<justso> yeah
<justso> it has to be almost impossibly quick to get it to work
<justso> I must be getting old
<MartijnVdS> touchpad is on its own tab
<justso> ok i will look
<justso> nothing for double click timeout in there
<sorin_> trebile's bune?
<sorin_> mere fain?
<justso> I assumed mouse settings would be effective for that
 * justso shrugs
<ali1234> plesk sucks :(
<directhex> computers suck
<directhex> i should have become a plumber
<justso> hmm double click problem seems to be with reposition or resize windows
<justso> I guess I can live with it
<daftykins> arsen: i'm in London this weekend
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> well, right now :> 'til Sunday afty probly
<daftykins> directhex: but you kinda are when you're networking ;)
<daftykins> it's just funny water
<directhex> snuh?
<daftykins> plumbing
<arsen> orly
<arsen> where at?
<arsen> im off to a funeral tomoz :/
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> Chelsea Harbour
<daftykins> on ze Thames
<directhex> daftykins: yeah, but a toilet backed up with shit versus freeswitch randomly dropping packets... easy choice
<daftykins> =]
<bigcalm> !ohmy | directhex
<lubotu3> directhex: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<directhex> oh yeah
<bigcalm> :)
<gordonjcp> "ohmy" sounds like a rude word in Gaelic
<directhex> sorry, flashback to the old days on #hexus.net
<gordonjcp> this is funnier than you can possibly imagine
<directhex> daftykins and arsen and me
<directhex> together in perfect harmony
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> directhex: wish i could say i've improved.. ;)
<daftykins> hmm right speaker channel on his home cinema setup r no workeh
<daftykins> no wonder, speaker is lacking a pole!
<directhex> would have been around the time i was writing guides to debian, so... 2004?
<arsen> hi what
<daftykins> you know, that really helped me for Uni
<arsen> what have i signed up for
<arsen> daftykins
<arsen> thats where i live
<arsen> nub
<arsen> :p
<daftykins> wut?
<daftykins> in the harbour?
<daftykins> arsen: i don't follow :P
<directhex> daftykins: omg rereading it now. OOo 1.1.1 screenshot ^_^
<directhex> daftykins: my writing style is still excellent, even if the content is obsolete :3
<daftykins> directhex: hahaha
<arsen> harbour or imperial wharf side?
<daftykins> arsen: the square looking building directly north of the harbour water
<daftykins> if you look at google maps sat view :>
<daftykins> that's his pad
<daftykins> though i'm lacking in the convenient magnetic card for the front doors atm
<daftykins> -in
<directhex> hah debian sarge
<directhex> a release candidate thereof
<daftykins> speaker fixed \o/
<arsen> i live at imperial wharf
<arsen> sorry, gaming so :P
<directhex> BLAST FROM THE PAST http://img.hexus.net/v2/features/foss/a2/images/installed12.png
 * justso wishes he could fix things
<justso> the lottery would be a good start
<daftykins> arsen: epic, wandering distance then ^_^
<arsen> yes
<arsen> errr
<arsen> shit
<arsen> PICK A BAD NIGHT
<daftykins> ah i'm pretty knackered today :> up to much fri/sat?
<arsen> at afternoon beers?
<arsen> sat*
<bigcalm> !ohmy | arsen
<lubotu3`> arsen: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<daftykins> arsen: fo sho
<daftykins> i vote a pub with ale and pool
<directhex> ;o replacing OSS with ALSA? this guide is OLD!
<arsen> sorreh, im doing 50 things at once and not paying attn to where im doin ze chattin :)
<arsen> yeah, theres ales at the fullers tbh, pool maybe more difficult here- theres MissQ's at earls ct
<bigcalm> :)
<daftykins> arsen: kewl
<daftykins> arsen: PM for mah #
<popey> hmm
<directhex> i should PLAY A GAME ZOMG
<hamitron> directhex, get back to work ;)
<directhex> no. i'm sick of work.
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> staying awake long enough to rip these blu-rays
<hamitron> why go to the expense of blu-ray, to just rip them?
<hamitron> :|
 * hamitron is a cheap ass dvd user
<directhex> hamitron: not transcoding. keeping video in original format
<hamitron> oh
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> hamitron: audio i'm tossing away the extra channels in 7.1 since i only have 5.1
<hamitron> if ONLY I had that much hdd space
<directhex> hamitron: new 3T disk arrived today
<hamitron> ah
<directhex> hamitron: old 2T disk failed
<hamitron> so "testing" the new one properly? ;)
<directhex> hamitron: restoring lost data.
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> takes about 45 mins to rip a movie
<hamitron> at least if it wasn't transcoded, less work
<directhex> Tron_t00.mkv
<hamitron> 1 less step, but you also wouldn't have fitted as much on the broken drive
<hamitron> :/
<directhex> hamitron: broken drive was mostly full. about 10% free
<directhex> lost about 20 music tracks, 2 games, and 2 blu-ray rips
<hamitron> that nearly filled 2TB?
<hamitron> or just the stuff not backed up?
<hamitron> well, have fun
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I gotta sort a mess here, so I can at least remember the colour of the carpet
<directhex> hamitron: 200G of doctor who?
<hamitron> meh
<hamitron> that is starting to annoy me
<hamitron> that or my brain is just getting old and tired
<directhex> 200G covering doctors 1->7
<ging> hamitron: you are talking too much
<ging> all i se is your name
<ging> oh wait it's mostly smilies
<hamitron> me? :|
<ging> no the other hamitron
<hamitron> well, I'm the real hamitron
 * hamitron spanks "the other" hamitron
<directhex> *I'M* spartacus
<hamitron> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-13
<AlanBell> morning all
<daubers> Morning
<czajkowski> morning
<czajkowski> I haz problem
<czajkowski> I haz no desktop again
<czajkowski> :/
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: blame gordonjcp
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> just gord
<MartijnVdS> sorry, gordonjcp
 * czajkowski peers at gord was it you mister
<ikonia> directhex: pong
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MooDoo> morning all
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<andylockran> howdy all you guys!
<andylockran> How are things?
<MartijnVdS> Things are phat
<andylockran> awesome
<popey> word
<MartijnVdS> popey: excel?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Bit of a boo boo last night :(
<popey> oh?
<czajkowski> bigcalm: oh all ok?
<bigcalm> Turned the power off to the microserver by mistake (I thought it was on the UPS, not the monitors block)
<dwatkins> morning folks
<bigcalm> Machine gets past POST but then just gives me a flashing cursor when GRUB should be running
<bigcalm> How might I fix this? :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: with a live cd/usb stick :)
<bigcalm> Then what?
<MartijnVdS> make sure you use one with the same "bitness" as the OS on the machine
<MartijnVdS> (32/64)
<popey> bigcalm: have you tried holding shift to get the grub menu?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I know you didn't install Windows, but this should also work in other cases: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<MartijnVdS> Also, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2\
<bigcalm> popey: I've not tried anything yet, will give it a go ta
<MartijnVdS> without hte \
<bigcalm> popey: no change
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: about to look at your links
<hank3three3> hi, I'm running Ubuntu 12.04, and just had an update 120 things were updated so it was a big one, and at the end |I had to reboot. Well, when I did, and went to log in, I looked in the dropped down box to  check, and the Ubuntu option has dissappeared, the Ubuntu 2 option is still there but the Ubuntu option has gone........how can I get that back, and is it a bug?
<MartijnVdS> hank3three3: "Ubuntu option", "Ubuntu 2 option"?
<MartijnVdS> hank3three3: Which menu are you talking about?
<hank3three3> on the log in page, on the left in the box, where you put your username, just in the top right corner there is an arrow, you can click on that to choose Ubuntu, or Ubuntu 2 or other options if you have them
<MartijnVdS> Unity, or Unity 2D, I guess?
<hank3three3> so now, I dont have full access to ubuntu, only ubuntu 2
<directhex> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1891739646.png
<hank3three3> that is basically what it is, but it says Ubuntu or Ubuntu 2
<hank3three3> MartijnVdS: Unity has gone
<hank3three3> or the option to log into it has
<MartijnVdS> hank3three3: I have no idea what causes that, except uninstalling one or the other
<hank3three3> it happened after the update I had
<hank3three3> I didnt install anything
<hank3three3> I was logged into Unity, updated rebooted unity gone
<hank3three3> that should have read 'uninstall' anything
<popey> i suspect I know what happened
<christel> 5
<christel> er
<popey> hank3three3: login to unity 2d, and then issue this:-
<popey> sudo apt-get update
<MartijnVdS> christel: ^5!
<popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ unity
<christel> ^5 ;)
<popey> directhex: nice!
<MartijnVdS> popey: ubuntu-desktop^ ? What does that do?
<directhex> popey, I HAVE ALL THE INTERETS!
<directhex> there aren't any spare. sorry. none of you can have any
<popey> MartijnVdS: installs the task
<popey> i only have a little bit directhex http://www.speedtest.net/result/1891749065.png
<hank3three3> popey: ok, thanks, just out of interest what could have happened?
<popey> hank3three3: I suspect you just got unity 5.10 and something removed unity
<directhex> lol 2.7 meg upstream. I MOCK YOU! MOCK MOCK!
<popey> âº
<bigcalm> Reinstalling GRUB didn't help :(
<hank3three3> popey: Ah.......thanks, need to log out, will let you know what happens
<popey> bigcalm: did the reinstall work though?
<popey> how did you install ubuntu on the machine in the first place exactly
<bigcalm> Horay, fixed it
<bigcalm> One differnce from the last reboot was that yesterday I plugged in another external harddrive via usb. That was stopping it from booting this time
<bigcalm> A bit silly really
<hank3three3> popey:I think I wrote the second command down wrong, can you repeat it again, thanks
<bigcalm> Unplugged it, rebooted. Working dev system
<popey> 09:49:21 < popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> 09:49:29 < popey> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ unity
<bigcalm> But I do need that drive, it's used for backing up my parents' home server
<hank3three3> popey:thanks you, now I can copy and paste, my writing is terrible
<popey> bigcalm: why is it external?
<bigcalm> popey: this was when my Revo was my server
<popey> bigcalm: is it a desktop drive or laptop one?
<bigcalm> popey: it's a...
<popey> i.e. if it's a desktop, just slap it inside the microserver
<bigcalm> Seagate Expansion Portable Drive 500GB
<popey> that means nothing to me
<bigcalm> It'll have a 2.5" drive inside
<bigcalm> Tiny thing
<popey> i have a 2.5" drive in my hp microserver âº
<popey> SSD
<bigcalm> http://www.seagate.com/www/en-gb/products/external/expansion/expansion_portable/
<hank3three3> ok, went through the process, got to reboot again, brb
<bigcalm> Don't really want to open it up to take the disc out
<popey> why?
<bigcalm> It's my parents'
<hank3three3> popey: yay, got Ubuntu back, so does that mean I now have Unity 5? or an earlier version, I did notice it was saying something during the install, something to do with python was being uninstalled, could that a problem? I too a copy of the terminal so I could find it if needed
<hank3three3> plus, as MartijnVdS said, he called it Unity and Unity 2D, why is it different on the log in box
<bigcalm> popey: so you think I can just take the drive out and put it into the microserver?
<popey> bigcalm: with a bracket, yes
<bigcalm> Indeed
 * bigcalm looks at maplin for one
<popey> hank3three3: the software is called Unity and Unity 2D, but the login screen may well say "Ubuntu" and "Ubuntu 2D", it's fine, don't worry about it
<popey> hank3three3: the following command will tell you what version of unity you have:-
<popey> dpkg -l unity
<awilkins> I love that I can upgrade my whole OS and just keep on truckin' with work while it does it.
<hank3three3> got an error unknown option -1, is that a one or a l
<awilkins> That's a one
<awilkins> (I presume you pasted that)
<hank3three3> yes and got the error unknown option 1
<awilkins> If you can't tell the difference, you should use a different font :-)
<popey> it is an l
<popey> lower case L
<gordonjcp> hank3three3: one of the nice things is that in the stock Ubuntu font, L, l and 1 are visibly very different
<gordonjcp> s/Ubuntu font/Ubuntu monospace font/
<oimon> i think this guy has the same problems as me. http://askubuntu.com/questions/78237/unity-3d-with-nvidia-driver-becomes-very-slow-and-laggy
<awilkins> Decent coding fonts were something I would really hassle over on Windows
<awilkins> I quite like "Dina"
<gord> mmmm ubuntu mono
<gord> also, makes a fantastic nethack font
<hank3three3> popey: now you pointed out the differences I can see that now, and I have Unity 5 installed.......
<awilkins> I was quite annoyed by some of the newer IDEs that couldn't cope with bitmap fonts
<awilkins> Windows makes "bold" in a bitmap font by smearing it 1 pixel to the right
<awilkins> Which totally ruined the layout on SharpDevelop by making all the letters wider
<awilkins> Had to find a truetype font instead
<popey> hank3three3: 5 point something
<hank3three3> sorry, 5.10.0,   is that the correct one?
<popey> yup
<popey> thats expected
<popey> thats the latest version we're going to ship with in 12.04
<hank3three3> I just looked through the update in the terminal, and came across something about python not being installed, it says dpkg:python3-uno: dependancy problemscould that be a problem
<hank3three3> brillint, thank you so much
<hank3three3> it says they were removed
<bigcalm> Looks like a trip to Maplin or PC World is going to be my lunch today
<bigcalm> Wonder if I can put both external drives in
<popey> i have a 2.5" drive in the top bay of mine
<bigcalm> There's a package called woopsie? Cool!
<bigcalm> Sorry, whoopsie
<awilkins> Also, whoopsie-daisy
<awilkins> Crash database and reporting daemon
<awilkins> I suppose it's more polite than `wtfd`
<bigcalm> :)
<awilkins> "Weporting Teh Failures. I, Bawwy Cwipkey am the authow of this softwawe"
<popey> yeah, whoopsie is great âº
<czajkowski> daisy
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you're missing from over there --->
<oimon> how do i alt-tab to show the windows on all desktops? (unity)
<dogmatic69> o/
<oimon> hmm. ctrl =lat-tab seems to do it, but very unwiedly if you then need shift too
<oimon> discovered that super-tab goes along the unity launcher
<dogmatic69> oimon: winkey+tab ?
<awilkins> super-s ?
<popey> no, its CTRL+ALT+TAB
<dogmatic69> oimon: ah, I see what you mean
<AlanBell> czajkowski: over where?
<czajkowski> surrey
<oimon> if i have a pdf on one desktop, clicking the launcher switches to that. the only way to switch to the other pdf is to super-s or ctrl-alt-tab
<awilkins> Over there ---> is Manchester here
<popey> oimon: alt+`
<popey> i do love it when people say "you can't" or "the only way" about unity
<popey> sorry, no, the other one
<popey> I guess alt+` doesn't traverse desktops though?
<dogmatic69> popey: alt+` just shows a preview
<popey> no, it switches
<AlanBell> switches between windows of the same type
<awilkins> Oh maggots
<AlanBell> the alt-tab raise all windows thing is apparently considered a bug
<awilkins> alt+` is not wise during a Oneiric-> Precise upgrade, it seems
<awilkins> Now I have no window manager
<popey> yes AlanBell and it has been for ages
<popey> keep up âº
 * awilkins never knew that
<ali1234> does anyone know what is a "diamond aperture"?
<awilkins> Well, aperture is a hole
<ali1234> " Can the back information be in a diamond aperture?"
<awilkins> So it's either i) A hole that's shaped like a diamond
<awilkins> ii) A hole that's edged with diamond to make it more durable (maybe some kind of high quality pasta extrusion die, for example)
<dogmatic69> I added some fonts in ~/.fonts and now inkscape takes 5min to open
<dogmatic69> would that be a bug?
<awilkins> or iii) A hole covered with a diamond window
<ali1234> well it;s clearly 1
<oimon> popey, alt + ` only shows the current desktop
<ali1234> but i don't understand how i can start with a square page, add a "diamond aperture" and then put some text inside it
<oimon> doesn't work over all desktops
<ali1234> i have no idea what they'retalking about :(
<dogmatic69> oimon: I just tried it too, does not show others for me
<awilkins> ali1234, Ah, wishy-washy design language
<awilkins> ali1234, sudo apt-get install wwdl-parser
<oimon> docky would let me choose :-\
<awilkins> Converts it to SVG (we wish...)
<oimon> it's as if the launcher doesn't know about 2 pdfs i have open
<awilkins> oimon, Doesn't a second click summon all the windows you have open?
<ali1234> i also have the world's worst and most low resolution clip art to insert smehow
<oimon> awilkins, no
<awilkins> oimon, Hmm. I can't test it right now. I'm in the middle of an upgrade and Unity has died
<oimon> i'm hammering the evince button on the launcher and only 1 shows
<awilkins> Cause I tried to get clever and use alt+`
<oimon> it doesn't switch to expo mode
<ali1234> are they on a different workspace?
<oimon> yes
<ali1234> well thats why then
<awilkins> ali1234, I bet they ask you to de-pixellate it too
<ali1234> they are ignored now
<oimon> that's a fail then
<ali1234> unless there are none on current wrkspaec
<ali1234> dont ask me how it picks, if there's none on current workspace but there are on more than one other
<awilkins> That is a departure from the current behaviour
<shauno> with 'Auto-hide the launcher' .. how do I get it back ?
<ali1234> mouse against left edge of screen
<oimon> or super key,
<awilkins> Suggest : how about a third click expo's windows from other workspaces
<ali1234> there's no point making suggestions. unless your suggestion is even more ridiculous and stupid than what we have now it will be ignored.
<ali1234> pretty much every sensible suggestion has already been made. several time.
<awilkins> Hmm. Can you confirm - have ctrl-alt-numpad4 and numpad 6 stopped working to put the window on the left / right half of the screen?
<shauno> hm; I wonder if vmware is interfering with the screen edge then
<ali1234> awilkins: look slike it
<awilkins> ali1234, I quite liked that
<ali1234> shauno: vmware perhaps. virtualbox doesn't
<awilkins> Noticed it had gone from my upgraded laptop yesterday
<ali1234> note you have to push really hard by default
<ali1234> like you basically have to scrub the desk with the mouse
<ali1234> because it is so unsensitive
<ali1234> if you set all the settings to zero it is just about workable
<ali1234> awilkins: just 4 and 6 are broken. search for a bug, if you don't find it, report it
<ali1234> but i bet it's reported
<awilkins> There's 878513 and 878820 (4 and 6 don't have multiple resize levels) but not one for " they don't work " AFAICT
<ali1234> bug 954797
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 878820 in compiz-plugins-main (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #954797 Window Management, Keyboard shortcut - The grid keybindings are behaving inconsistently" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878820
<shauno> well, I don't feel so silly now; just tried four different people, and none of them can resize gnome-terminal
<ali1234> resize gnome terminal?
<oimon> another solution might be to right-click on the icon on the launcher to select all possible windows
<ali1234> you resize it the same way as always
<oimon> atm multiple desktops doesn't work when you have multiple windows, and thats an absolute fail
<shauno> by hovering over the tiny 1px border and hoping that pushing down on the trackpad doesn't move you a single pixel out of alignment?
<ali1234> no, that bug is fixed
<ali1234> you now have about 10 pixel border again
<ali1234> it's invisible but it is there
<oimon> shauno, in 12.04, it's easier to resize
<ali1234> also wah wah wah
<oimon> the shadow area is a resize zone too, instead of 1px
<oimon> it's much better
<ali1234> there was a regression in 12.04 where it went away
<ali1234> but afaik 11.10 had the resize shadow border too
<shauno> hm, I don't have a shadow border
<oimon> ok, didn't use 11.10 for long, as it was so buggy for me
<ali1234> same here
<ali1234> i upgraded to 12.04 almost immediately, thinking about it
<ali1234> so maybe it never had that
<oimon> also the scrollbar detected is improved
<ali1234> btw don't forget to vote for bugs :)
<ali1234> by marking it as affecting you
 * awilkins_dang cannot see his other client window now because he clicked on a bug number and ended up in it's channel
<czajkowski> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/
<czajkowski> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
<popey> 11:10:01 < oimon> atm multiple desktops doesn't work when you have multiple windows, and thats an absolute fail
<popey> you have at _least_ 3 ways of switching
<popey> just because the one single way you _think_ should work, doesn't, doesn't IMO make it "absolute" fail.
<ali1234> it is still slightly faily
<davmor2> morning all you funky people
<oimon> launcher doesn't know about those windows, which is the way that most users would expect to work
<ali1234> it used to be total fail
<awilkins_dang> I've had people quizzing me about our usage of OSS on behalf of the Cabinet Office this month
<popey> yeah, maybe ctrl+alt+` should switch windows of apps on different desktops
<popey> to bring it in line with ctrl+alt+tab
<ali1234> forget keyboard shortcuts
<popey> but those are hard combos to press
<ali1234> unity already has too many
<ali1234> i have to turn most of them off
<popey> heh
<awilkins_dang> It definitely seems to be a `cause celebre` in UKGOV to like OSS now
<awilkins_dang> Or at least try to pretend they like it
<ali1234> make it work with the mouse
<oimon> mouse +1
<awilkins_dang> Either that or they are trying to gather stats as to how useless and ineffectual it is
<oimon> if the window is minimised then super-s doesn't know either
<directhex> awilkins_dang, didn't the govt recently replace "formats must comply with open standards" with "must have RAND access to formats", which essentially bans OSS from the process?
<ali1234> not according to my reading of the consultation
<ali1234> however i only skimmed it
<ali1234> but it seems they address that point
<awilkins_dang> directhex: Not sure. Possibly. I hate RAND. It's an oxymoron.
<directhex> awilkins_dang, nope, just misleading. "non discriminatory" means it's forbidden to give better access terms to foss devs than anyone else!
<ali1234> royalty free or promise of non-assertion
<ali1234> i dunno what the implications of that are
<awilkins_dang> Non discriminatory isn't reasonable (in the "can reason with it" sense) - if you are bargaining / reasoning with someone, you are being discriminated against based on what you bring to the table
<ali1234> "Licences, terms and conditions must be compatible with implementation of  the standard in both proprietary and open source software. These rights  should be irrevocable unless there is a breach of licence conditions."
<awilkins_dang> directhex: If UKGOV did replace "must comply with open stds" with "must have RAND access" it's probably a sop to MS Office
<awilkins_dang> Since MOO-XML doesn't comply with it's own standard
<awilkins_dang> Someone may have pointed out that they were mandating the use of OpenDocument
<awilkins_dang> :-S
<awilkins_dang> Actually, interesting question, does (Open|Libre)Office comply with ODF..
 * awilkins_dang braces for reboot
<awilkins> I have to say, how do you reconfigure the "ridge" in the middle of your monitors so the mouse doesn't get caught on it so easily?
<directhex> awilkins, no.
<awilkins> Gnarrgh, if super-shift-number summons an extra window of an app, why doesn't shift-mouseclick on the icon do the same thing
<awilkins> directhex, no, what?
<directhex> awilkins, OOo/LO are using an ODF version far newer than anything in the spec
<awilkins> Ah
<directhex> and i don't think some stuff was ever properly submitted to the committee, like equations and document passwords
<awilkins> Found answer to question about "mid monitor ridge"
<directhex> some of the spec is incredibly ropey too, like "yeah, this only makes sense if you have the OOo source code in front of you" type stuff
<awilkins> Install ccsm and lower edge stop velocity
<awilkins> directhex, To be fair, a lot of the non-strict MOO-XML spec is like that... only you can't download the source code
<directhex> awilkins, yeah, but saying "read the OOo source" is poison to anyone wanting to implement ODF who doesn't want to be GPL
<directhex> e.g. MS
<directhex> OASIS has ODF 1.2, OOo 3.2+ use "ODF 1.2 extended"
<directhex> embrace & extend!
<awilkins> Well, it's only really nasty embrace and extend if you hide your extensions from people
<directhex> it's hidden if it's only visible in GPL source
<directhex> e.g. a MIT/X11 licensed editor could not use ODF 1.2 extended.
<awilkins> LO is LGPL, so technically you could make an ODF library out of it's source and not have to distribute the source for your awesome editor application
<oimon> bug 924643 is what i was talking about earlier ali1234
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 924669 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #924643 checkbox-unity: test descriptions need an update" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924669
<oimon> woops
<directhex> awilkins, and as sono as you look at the source in order to do the separation, you open yourself up to accusations of copying
<oimon> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/924643 seems to have a wrongly assigned dupliacte status?
<oimon> or maybe a bad title :P
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> the behaviour now is by design
<oimon> ah :(
<oimon> sucks for a lot of people then
<ali1234> exposing windows from all workspaces makes having workspaces at all completely pointless
<ali1234> if you want to have the old behaviour, just open all windows on the same workspace
<oimon> then that makes workspaces completely pointless :)
<ali1234> yes exactly
<oimon> i should be able to hit super-1 and switch to the correct window, or get a choice
<ali1234> exposing all windows makes it impossible to keep track of which workspace you are on, which workspace the window you want is on, and which workspace you will end up on if you click a particular window
<ali1234> therefore the only sensible way to use unity in that state is only to use one workspace
<ali1234> which you can still do
<oimon> a launcher/dock should mean that you don't care which workspace you are on, you just want the right app
<ali1234> yes that is exactly my point
<oimon> not exposing all ws means you will "lose" apps
<ali1234> if you dont care which workspace you are on why do you need more than one?
<oimon> irc/pidgin workspace, terminals workspace etc
<ali1234> sorry but this is a design flaw in docks
<oimon> no, docky works properly
<ali1234> no it doesn't
<ali1234> docks, by design, are incompatible with workspaces
<ali1234> for the reasons i have described
<ali1234> it isn't a matter of just throwing everything at the user
<ali1234> the dock needs to update along with the workspace
<ali1234> but then it doesn't work like a dock any more, it works like a task bar
<ali1234> this is why docks are awful and taskbars are far better
<oimon> taskbars run out of space
<ali1234> docks run out of space too, so what?
<ali1234> in that respect they are identical to task bars
<oimon> most docks do not run out of space
<ali1234> but since task bar does not also contain launchers, and only shows items from the current workspace, it will usually taeke longer to run out of space than a dock, due to not also showing useless stuff
<oimon> you can resize the icons down to miniscule size, with larger zoom level
<ali1234> basically docks are crippled in every possible way
<ali1234> they hide information and simultaneously show useless stuff
<oimon> i find the opposite to be true, but hey ho
<ali1234> you can't tell if that icon is a launcher or a running program
<ali1234> and if you click on it yu have no idea what will happen
<ali1234> it might run a new app, it might unminimize something. it might take you to another workspace
<ali1234> there is simply no way to know
<oimon> a little dot (or multiple dots) tell you
<ali1234> yes, a tiny little dot that you can barely see
<oimon> wfm
<popey> i can see them
<popey> even with the launcher at 32px
<ali1234> the dot doesn't actually tell you what will happen when you click btw
<ali1234> it tells you if the app is running and if it is on the current workspace
<ali1234> it doesn't tel you what will actually happe when you click, with regards to workspace switching
<oimon> it will bring the app into focus wherever it is , unless it's already open and in focus
<ali1234> and the old expose behaviour did not tell you which windows were on the current workspace
<popey> if the app is on another workspace the triangle is not filled
<popey> if its on the current workspace it is filled
<ali1234> and what if you have a terminal on all workspaces?
<Nafallo> the dot says nothing about workspace.
<Nafallo> also, arrow.
<oimon> my main issue is that there is 1 design stragtegy and there aren't even options for the other behaviour
<Nafallo> hmm. oh.
<Nafallo> *tries*
<oimon> unity 5.2.0 had all ws, now it's gone and no ccsm option to enable it again
<ali1234> oimon: actually you can go back to the old behaviour with ccsm like most things
<oimon> can't see it ali1234
<ali1234> it was always a ccsm option, it's actually a compiz behaviour
<ali1234> can't remember where it is
<ali1234> it's in there somewhere
<ali1234> (not in the unity plugin options)
<ali1234> all they did was change a default
<ali1234> personally i am of the opinion that launcher should not show an icon at all unless the window is on current workspace or pinned
<ali1234> in the case it is pinned, clicking it should always open a new copy if it isn't on the current workspace
<oimon> i think docky has those options :D
<ali1234> basically it should be totally impossible to switch workspace any way other than keyboard shortcut or the desktop switcher
<ali1234> nothing annoys me more than apps stealing focus and switching workspace when i don't expect it
<ali1234> it's like someone yanking the computer out of your hands
<oimon> thereby shows the dificulty of a single design decision without alowing alternatives. others come at it from opposite direction completely and the options to change it are trivial
<ali1234> how come u1 for android syncs my photos but not my videos?
<ali1234> g+ does videos too :(
<popey> doesn't it?
<ali1234> no
<Nafallo> maybe with the popey-version it does :-P
 * popey tests on iphone
<popey> ahem, just walked around the house looking for phone
<popey> which was in my pocket
<Nafallo> meh. iphone... who cares about iphone?
<popey> I hear they're quite popular
<Nafallo> evil lies
 * MartijnVdS just upgraded his Galaxy Nexus to 4.0.4
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: hrm. I'd avoid 404s on my phone personally...
<popey> huh, fancy that
<Nafallo> I'd end up like popey :-P
<popey> never noticed that
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: that's why it includes the .s
<Nafallo> had it been triangles I would have seen them...
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<Nafallo> so what's better compared to 4.0.3 ?
<Nafallo> cause 4.0.3 seems to be all the hype these days ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Camera app opens faster
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: is that all?
<Nafallo> geez
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: Orientation change (turning phone) is picked up faster/animation is smoother
<Nafallo> ah
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: and a few other things
<Nafallo> I have that turned off in the general case. the auto-rotation ;-)
 * MartijnVdS likes it
<Nafallo> only turn it on for watching videos :-P
<Nafallo> I spend way too much time laying down playing with my phone ;-)
<Nafallo> s/phone/equipment/
<MartijnVdS> "equipment"
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Is that a custom rom or official release?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: official
<daubers> Hmmm... suspect vodafone haven't rolled that one out yet then
<MartijnVdS> daubers: do you have ICL53F?
<daubers> Yep
<MartijnVdS> daubers: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=24782171&postcount=447
<MartijnVdS> daubers: manual update if you don't want to wait for OTA
<MartijnVdS> (yes it involves a local root exploit..)
<MartijnVdS> (but that's only because you can't write to /cache without root)
<daubers> Ah, ok
 * daubers will happily wait for the OTA update
<MartijnVdS> I've waited for 2 weeks
<MartijnVdS> and I can't stand not getting an update ;)
<daubers> I can wait :) I'm still developing stuff for 2.x so I'm in no rush
<MartijnVdS> 2.x still exists? :P
<MartijnVdS> <-- spoiled with Xoom and GNex
<daubers> MartijnVdS: My GSII is still using it, so yes :p
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Those are being updated to ICS in .nl
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Apparently Vodafone is releasing the update to ICS for it today
<MartijnVdS> Why would Vodafone do that, not Samsung or Google?
<MartijnVdS> (unless it's a branded phone)
<MartijnVdS> (which I think should be prohibited by law)
<daubers> The carriers make sure it works with all the network features apparently
<MartijnVdS> Useless delay tactics imho ;)
<MartijnVdS> They all use standard protocols. If they don't they should.
<daubers> They don't use standard stuff :) Different frequencies and what not too
<daubers> (some is standard some not from what I'm told)
<MartijnVdS> It's all standard :)
<daubers> The voicemail stuff isn't
<MartijnVdS> Again.. then they should figure out a standard and stick to it
<MartijnVdS> but this is the old Internet People vs Telecom People debate
<daubers> Meh, unless there is a single backbone network that the carriers then use (like with BT) I doubt it would ever happen
<MartijnVdS> Things are moving toward IP-based services
<MartijnVdS> instead of the "old" stack
<MartijnVdS> slowly, but surely
<popey> i have suddenly started getting icons in my menus
<popey> in nautilus the view menu has icons for stop and reload
<MartijnVdS> popey: the "Bookmarks" menu has them as well
<popey> when did they come back?
<MartijnVdS> Were they ever gone?
 * MartijnVdS seldom uses menus
<popey> me either
<popey> the zoom ones stand out
<sagaci> i'm not seeing the menus :/
 * bigcalm returns from Maplin & PCWorld. Neither have a 2.5->3.5" bracket
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: meccano
<bigcalm> gord: I don't have any any more. And isn't new stuff made from plastic?
<ali1234> out of stock?
<bigcalm> ali1234: Maplin don't have such things. PCWorld have them on their website but none in my local shop
<bigcalm> I'll just order online from somewhere
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: car stereo shop, get some of the aluminium punched strip that you use for securing the rear of the stereo to the dashboard
<gordonjcp> that no-one ever fits
<gordonjcp> so the stereo rattles up and down making an annoying plasticky squeak over bumps
<gordonjcp> until eventually the CD player laser can't take any more and falls off its gimbals
<daubers> You have a cd player in your car?
<ali1234> http://www.maplin.co.uk/2.5-to-3.5-hdd-kit-37602
<gordonjcp> daubers: in my car, no
<gordonjcp> daubers: my van has a CD/MP3 player
<Dave2> A CD PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER PLAYER
<Dave2> ahem, sorry.
<bigcalm> ali1234: why couldn't I find that online before?
<bigcalm> Still doesn't mean the shop had one
<daubers> heh :) I've been considering taking mine out as I never use it
<bigcalm> And 10 quid is expensive
<ali1234> you can check the stock... online
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: because Maplin's website is made of fail, rabies and hantavirus
<ali1234> i agree it's expensive for a piece of aluminium
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> 3 in stock!
<bigcalm> Damn them
<ali1234> i built a 5.25-> 3.5 from L bar bought at B&Q
<bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-HDA-03-2-5-3-5-inch-Adapter/dp/B005ZWGFAC/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1334323180&sr=8-13
<bigcalm> There we go :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm in town tomorrow I can see if I can grab you one if you want
<bigcalm> davmor2: ta but I'll order online. Cheaper and should be here Monday or Tuesday
<davmor2> bigcalm: no probs
<bigcalm> So glad that it's pub night with Hayley tonight
<bigcalm> I need to relax
<AlanBell> Bug #938764 is hurting gord :(
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 806255 in Compiz Core "duplicate for #938764 Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806255
<bigcalm> Poor gord
 * bigcalm plays catchup with uupc
<awilkins> Hmm. My relatively painless upgrade to Precise on the laptop was misleading
<awilkins> So far, on the desktop we've had, random crashes, the Java perspective disappearing from Eclipse (which is a shame, because it's rather it's raison d'etre), the music player changing from Banshee to Rhythmbox but the music dash still telling Banshee what to do
<awilkins> And package breakage, git-svn no longer works because some vital Perl module has gone missing
<popey> awilkins: surely banshee is still installed?
<popey> so it wont be removed from the sound menu
<popey> and if you've never run rhythmbox then it wont appear in the menu
<awilkins> popey, Yes, but I was using Rhythmbox since it's the new default
<awilkins> Hmm, I dunno about that, Rhythmbox showed up anew in the sound menu on both the boxes I upgraded
<popey> if you remove banshee then it will go from the sound menu
<awilkins> I removed banshee, but now the music dash just does nothing instead of running Rhythmbox
<popey> eh? I dont understand that sentence
<awilkins> The dash shows up, has icons, you click them, nothing happens (dash still there, no music occurs from Rhythmbox)
<AlanBell> dash or sound indicator?
<AlanBell> music lens?
<awilkins> The music panel in the dash - the one with the notes
<awilkins> Lens, probably
<popey> have you searched?
<popey> i.e. typed sommat
<awilkins> Yes, or I wouldn't be seeing my music
<popey> ok, so the default has been left as banshee
<popey> as designed
<popey> ?
<awilkins> I've removed Banshee
<popey> and you removed banshee and click music and nothing opens?
<awilkins> Yes
<popey> right
<popey> so need to set the default
<awilkins> Rhythmbox was the default player in the sound menu when I upgraded, BTW
<gordonjcp> rhythmbox is terrible
<popey> being in the sound menu does not mean its default
<popey> being the default makes it default
<popey> Cog -> System Settings -> Details
<AlanBell> argh bug 806255 doesn't look like it will be fixed for the release :(
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 806255 in Compiz Core "Unity/compiz intercepts Super and Alt keypresses from grabbed windows like VMs." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806255
<awilkins> Default music app in settings says : Rhythmbox
<davmor2> gordonjcp: I prefer RB to banshee
 * awilkins changes it to movie player and then back again to make the setting refreshed
<awilkins> That fixed it
<gordonjcp> davmor2: I would, if it played any files and didn't just automatically delete everything it finds that it can't play
<gordonjcp> or if it supported my UPnP media server, or supported streaming audio
<davmor2> gordonjcp: it does and quite well here
<gordonjcp> I did wonder if being included in 12.04 means that it would have some of the crippling flaws ironed out
<gordonjcp> rhythmbox is an old, abandoned thing and tarting up its reanimated corpse for inclusion in Precise just isn't a great use of anyone's time right now
<awilkins> Any idea why they swapped it back from Banshee?
<awilkins> Was it the lack of U1MusicStore in Banshee?
<gordonjcp> awilkins: some perceived flaw in the Mono licensing
<awilkins> Ah, I did wonder
<awilkins> And yet Tomboy is still around
<davmor2> gordonjcp: it isn't abandoned
<davmor2> awilkins: banshee had a U1 music store in it
<siriusly> I quite like Clementine ;)
<awilkins> davmor2, You're right, sorry, I must have formed that impression from the release notes making a point of talking about it
<davmor2> gordonjcp: the lead developer said he'd had enough and when that happened a load of people went we can't let it die it's the default music player for gnome since then it's had a few developers working on it
<ali1234> yeah pretty much nothing anyone has said so far is actually true
<ali1234> tomboy is no longer in the defaults
<ali1234> banshee wasn't dropped because of mono
<ali1234> it was dropped because dash integration wasn't working well enough because it's database is slow an hard to use
<ali1234> at least that was the publicly stated reason
<awilkins> The mono thing is credible though. As is not wanting to actually admit it (giving your enemies succour!)
<ali1234> i don't think the licencing "issues" around mono are credible
<awilkins> Even if it's untrue, it would be a hard rumour to quosh
<ali1234> evidently
<ali1234> i won't miss it either way
<gordonjcp> ali1234: well, that's what I'd heard, in this channel, that everything Mono was getting dropped because someone got their knickers in a twist about c#
<ali1234> seems like only mono supports care any more
<awilkins> I quite like C# and .NET as technology
<davmor2> ali1234: actually there were a few reasons, because this is an LTS people will be upgrading from lucid as well as oneiric so there were as load of discussions around the default apps, one of the biggest was that there were many more crash reports from banshee than there were from RB was one argument etc etc etc
<ali1234> sure. but mono licencing was never one of the reasons
<davmor2> they'll probably have another big discussion about default apps this time too
<davmor2> ali1234: I think the only think that got mentioned about mono was with tomboys remove it was the only app pulling in mono and was that worth it iirc
<ali1234> yeah, that was about iso space though
<ali1234> though replacing it with Qt isn't much better
<ali1234> space wise
<ali1234> at least Qt is a good platform
<siriusly> hey...if you dont like the default software there are alternatives! ;)
<ali1234> yeah yeah
<popey> the whole "which app should we ship" discussion was a mess last time
<ali1234> should put up one of those "choose app" screens like they forced microsoft to
<davmor2> popey: I'm pretty sure it is everytime to be honest ;)
<popey> it was especially bad this time.
<ali1234> is the popcon stuff still tracked at all?
<ali1234> (or similar)
<ali1234> http://polishlinux.org/reviews/kde-4-1-rev-777000/a1405b89b3819b74546ddfa2f624b1b4.jpg
<ali1234> i just found a screenshot of kde that doesn't look awful
<davmor2> ali1234: nope but there is the all new recommender stuff instead
<ali1234> i used to make a point of uninstalling default apps that i don't use
<ali1234> after installing popcon
<meet> how to setup a network between two ubuntu computers?
<ali1234> meet: no setup required
<ali1234> services is another matter though
<meet> ali1234 i got a laptop and a desktop between which i want file sharing printer sharing etc
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/92024/how-to-set-up-a-basic-home-network-file-sharing
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/8534/share-files-and-printer-between-2-ubuntu-boxes
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/16104/share-between-ubuntu-machines
<ali1234> etc, you get the idea
<ali1234> never tried to do any of that stuff personally
<ali1234> i just enable sshd everywhere and use that for everything
<ali1234> i don't own a printer
<gordonjcp> sshfs ftw
<davmor2> I just use Ubuntu 1 :D
<diplo> I have a samba file server
<diplo> Everything shared from there
<meet> gordonjcp want a step by step tutorial like yesterday to share files between lubuntu wired desktop and ubuntu wirelss laptop
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: any reason for that?   Are you appreciating my charm since you've been in the Mothership Home Land?
<czajkowski> davmor2: no you just didnt poke so felt I should
<davmor2> czajkowski: you poked yourself, you're just weird ;)
<czajkowski> hello pot
<davmor2> czajkowski: hello kettle
<davmor2> czajkowski: how's your trip been?
<czajkowski> not bad now thanks
<czajkowski> another week to go
<czajkowski> been cool to be able to see my wee cousins
<davmor2> hey everyone else can we get the borders closed as czajkowski isn't here?  shhhhh though incase she is listening
<davmor2> czajkowski: That's little cousins right?
<czajkowski> davmor2: aye Caoimhe is now 2.5 years old, goddaughter 17.5 and playing basketball for our provence
<czajkowski> so it's been nice t see then every few days to hangout
<davmor2> nice
<czajkowski> aye tis, her speech caoimhe isn't so great but she understands every word we're saying
<popey> ali1234: checked, the reason we don't have video uploads is because we don't have resumable uploads at the moment
<popey> ali1234: should be added "soon" with any luck
<ali1234> i see
<directhex> who needs to resume, when they have 15mbit upstream? :D
<popey> haha
<directhex> that's enough to live stream the HD streams used by Sky HD :)
<gord> i have 2mbit downstream :(
<xplora1a> Has anyone else tried using the net analyser http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/index.html
<meet> i was able to play a game on ubuntu using wine .. but its not working on lubuntu..what could be the reason?
<gordonjcp> meet: hm?
<meet> i was able to play a game on ubuntu using wine .. but its not working on lubuntu..what could be the reason?
<gordonjcp> meet: hard to say without some idea of what sort of "not working" you're seeing
<meet> when i click the game after installing, it just appears for a fraction of a millisecond and disappears and does not start
<meet> how to install direct x in lubuntu
<meet> using wine?
<gordonjcp> meet: you probably want to check the winehq pages for that
<gordonjcp> meet: some games just don't work well in wine
<meet> they have given on the winehq it works well. and ubuntu suports it very well perfectly.
<popey> meet: probably better to run the game from the commandline and see what error you get
<meet> how to?
<popey> oh, lubuntu.. hmm
<popey> open a terminal, cd to the directory containing the game and run..
<popey> wine whateverthegameiscalled.exe
<gord> i love that game! i heard IGN gave whateverthegameiscalled 9/10
<popey> :D
<meet> but why does ubuntu support it and lubuntu does not
<gord> do you actually have it working fine on ubuntu yourself?
<brobostigon> any suggestions for good android email clients with imap support? and i have alreadytried google's client, and k9.
<davmor2> brobostigon: I was about to say k9 is about as good as it gets
<meet> popet command not find
<meet> yes gord perfect as in windows
<brobostigon> davmor2: ok, ohwell, i will have to find out then, why k9 is spontaniously dieing.
<davmor2> brobostigon: it hates you?
<gord> new plan, always refer to popey as poppet from now on
<brobostigon> davmor2: maybe :(
<gord> meet, sure you have wine installed?
<davmor2> gord: +1
<meet> ya
<meet> did the installation through cmd prompt
<meet> that is terminal
<popey> i think you may not have done the "cd to the directory"
 * brobostigon goes to get the most recent k9 apk, in hope, it was a bug, that has been fixed.
<davmor2> meet: cd  ~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/<appfolder>  and then run wine <appname>.exe   where <appname> is the name of the app
<brobostigon> i think that update has partly fixed it, the newest apk, build.
<czajkowski> anyone else like to see a more social side to the canonical blog posts https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/980971
<lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 980971 in ubuntu-website-content "sharing blog posts should be made easier" [Undecided,New]
<czajkowski> davmor2: trying to change the package on lp for bug and need to select firefox but says too many any idea what you put ?
<davmor2> czajkowski: I have no idea try looking up firefox in ubuntu and then copy that project name in?
<davmor2> czajkowski: just says package Firefox here so just put firefox and submit
<czajkowski> says too many
<czajkowski> toodles
<davmor2> czajkowski: ask chrisccoulson
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> did
<davmor2> czajkowski: coulda said something :P
<czajkowski> just did it and trying to get one last thing done before the mothership yells
<czajkowski> An introduction to our new sharing feature - http://blog.launchpad.net/coming-features/an-introduction-to-our-new-sharing-feature
<dwatkins> lubuntu works rather nicely.
<ed54678> hi, anyone what font is used on this page (the image with white letters on black background)?
<ed54678> http://art.tfl.gov.uk/projects/detail/4340/
<popey> ed54678: http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/
<directhex> no exact match
<ed54678> yeah i found it,  Phoenica Std Mono 400
<daftykins> anyone had any experience with how to improve really bad ADSL line stats when in a shared apartment building?
<daftykins> neither socket around the place looks like a conventional master
<bittin> http://www.acc.umu.se/~tjoppen/files/pictures/revision2012/Song,%20bittin%20dancing.JPG :D
 * AlanBell wonders what exactly handles alt-tab and window raising
<Azelphur> AlanBell: the WM
<Azelphur> so, compiz in most ubuntu cases
<AlanBell> compiz or unity?
<gord>  unity handles alt-tab, compiz handles window raising
<AlanBell> it is the unity switcher that is broken I guess it must be in that package
<Azelphur> AlanBell: unity is a compiz plugin isn't it?
<AlanBell> Azelphur: it is
<Azelphur> :)
<AlanBell> gord: so is it unity that tells compiz to raise all the windows?
<gord> tis
 * AlanBell pulls
<gord> and its intended behaviour as well
<AlanBell> sabdfl said it was a bug
<popey> nope gord
<popey> its top of Johns list
<ali1234> this is where that whole "one consistent design is simpler to implement" thing falls apart
<ali1234> (when you change it so often no one can keep up)
<popey> i filed this bug about 6 months ago, it's well known
<ali1234> raising all windows is something unity has done since the start
<AlanBell> this one appears to be caused by a designer seeing gimp and assuming all applications are like that
<ali1234> heh. of course gimp is almost impossible to use with unity anyway
<popey> bug 873082
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 873082 in unity (Ubuntu) "ALT+Tab doesn't switch between two most recent windows" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873082
<ali1234> i mean if the designers had only seen gimp, unity would have ended up a lot different
<AlanBell> on the contrary, gimp works great with unity
<ali1234> what??
<ali1234> no it doesn't. the multiple windows always end up getting lost
<ali1234> or spread across multiple workspaces
<AlanBell> all the gimp windows raise together as one application, they don't get hidden behind other stuff
<dogmatic69> gimps little side windows are always above the main one
<ali1234> i hope single window mode gets released soon
<AlanBell> oh, I haven't lost any on other workspaces yet, but I can see that being a bit of a bother
<ali1234> gimp doesn't have a main window...
<dogmatic69> where you draw ~= main one
<ali1234> also, all the windows don't raise if you have them even spread across two monitors/same workspace
<ali1234> dogmatic69: there can be multiple of those, if you open multiple files
<dogmatic69> sure, for me at least the little windows follow the active drawing window
<dogmatic69> only 1 monitor though
<ali1234> i tell you how i lose the toolbar as well... i always open images with right click icon -> open with gimp (and never the stupid launcher search thing)
<ali1234> that opens the image window on current monitor
<ali1234> er, workspace
<ali1234> but i left gimp running on another workspace
<AlanBell> popey: does "top of John's list" mean I shouldn't bother fixing it?
<ali1234> so then i have to switch to that workspace and transfer the menu window, the toolbox, layers window etc, to the new workspace one by one
<popey> bug 770283
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 770283 in Compiz Core "[fglrx]title bar does not update on non-maximized windows" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/770283
<popey> AlanBell: no, it means someone should, because nobody has
<popey> bug 953963
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 953963 in unity "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in ObjectPtr() from unity::launcher::Launcher::DesaturateIcons() from unity::launcher::Launcher::OnOverlayShown()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/953963
<popey> hmm
<zleap> AlanBell, large stamped jiffy bag is en route
<popey> found it
<popey> bug 959339
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 959339 in unity "Launcher, Alt-Tab - clicking on launcher item or selecting a app in Alt-Tab raises all app windows, not just most recently focused" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959339
<dogmatic69> ali1234: just tried what you said and it is 1/2 broken. if you open gimp with no image, switch workspace and open an image it goes back to the original space
<popey> says its fixed AlanBell
<dogmatic69> if there was an image open it opens the second image with no toolbar windows in sight
<ali1234> yeah, that will be it
<popey> _totally_ needs to go in before release day or it wont go in till 12.01
<popey> *12.10
<ali1234> i just wish for single window mode soon
<dogmatic69> i was never a fan of the floating windows thing, one of the things I dont like about mac
 * popey marks his as a dupe
<zleap> popey, if its not in 12.04 why would it not go in to 12.04.1
<AlanBell> popey: agreed, it is annoying in the extreme, I wrote the window quicklists thing specifically as a workaround for that
<popey> because it's a change in behaviour
<zleap> ah
<AlanBell> zleap: read Kate Stewart's comment
<zleap> and the .x releases are fixes etc
<popey> AlanBell: feel free to petition the release team!
<zleap> ok
<popey> zleap: "etc" doesn't mean "change the behaviour"
<popey> !sru
<lubotu3`> Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
<popey> read that âº
<zleap> k
<AlanBell> wonder if skaet is coming over for the release
<popey> in theory once the release goes out the door we don't change behaviour with patches/updates
<ali1234> is global menu off switch confirmed for 12.10?
<AlanBell> it is confirmed not to be in 12.04
<ali1234> i know that
<popey> bug 955193
<AlanBell> I think 12.10, yes, there is still lots of talk about LIM
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 955193 in Ayatana Design "Menu bar - add option for the global menu to make it always visible" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/955193
<ali1234> also, what did the design team say about making it go in the title bar only on maximized windows?
<popey> bug 839480 ?
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 839480 in Ayatana Design "[FFe, UIFe] Dash - When the Dash is open and there is a maximised app in the background, the top bar background should not disappear" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839480
<ali1234> what about it?
<popey> trying to find the bugs you're describing
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> i mean global menu
<popey> easier for you to look... they're probably listed here:-
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/design/
<ali1234> there was talk about a third option
<ali1234> where the menu is attached to the window
<ali1234> but on maximized windows, it's still the way it is now
<popey> searthat list or the "upstream" link on that page might be useful
<popey> you too AlanBell
<popey> if you hadn't seen it before
<popey> it's a useful reference
<AlanBell> nice
<ali1234> bug 701294
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 701294 in unity (Ubuntu) "Always show menu bar for non-maximised windows" [Wishlist,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/701294
<AlanBell> Bug #832004
<lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 832004 in unity (Ubuntu) "Alt Tab behavior is needlessly inconsistent and difficult" [Undecided,Opinion] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832004
<popey> âº
<AlanBell> great use of the Opinion status :)
<AlanBell> are the design team all using Unity these days?
<popey> i dont know all of the design team
<AlanBell> well that bug has a nice looking patch on it with a test and everything
<AlanBell> much better than what I would have done
<awilkins> Oh hoooooooofrackin' ray, I finally, finally, laid this EEEVIL bug to rest
<dwatkins> sounds good, which bug awilkins?
 * awilkins prints out the source code and vigorously stabs it with a santoku knife
<awilkins> Alas, only a bug in my work, work
<awilkins> In this monstrous clod of 725,000 lines of Java
<daftykins> :S
<MartijnVdS> ooh ritual killings?
<awilkins> Just bought it from Tesco, one of their knife-token knives
<dwatkins> still a win, awilkins :)
<awilkins> I deserve whiskey now
<awilkins> Or possibly whisky. I think it's whisky
<awilkins> (non irish)
<dwatkins> It depends where it's from, I think.
<dwatkins> Scotch is one way, Irish the other, iirc.
<awilkins> Irish carries the e methinks
<popey> hmmm
<popey> gord: if you hold down the hardware mute key on the x220 it sometimes gets out of sync
<popey> light goes on to say it's muted
<popey> but it's not
<popey> and vice versa
<gord> popey, give ronac a poke on monday, he's got an x220 too, do you know him?
<gord> ronoc*
<popey> will do
<AlanBell> anyone in Bristol?
<jpds> AlanBell: ikonia is nearby, I think.
<AlanBell> http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html
<AlanBell> it would really be good if some people could go to the remaining round table events
<AlanBell> and if more people could respond to this that would be great: http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
<Guest91745> grah
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-14
<justso> 'morning
<sagaci> evening
<justso> stupid round world
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> o/
<justso> does anyone know of a way to give the mouse pointer inertia when using a mouse pad (so it works more like a track ball)
<justso> hmm though that was a long shot. It is a very handy utility available with the windows drivers for this mouse pad
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Business Biscotti Slough West  10th April 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=149
<Myrtti> scramble on toast and tea... mmm.
<Myrtti> Finland has an egg shortage :-(
<gordonjcp> get some hens
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: will post you some
 * AlanBell has a poorly hen :(
<AlanBell> Myrtti: you can pop round to get some eggs any time you like
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: a) I live in an apartment block here b) they wouldn't survive the winter
<gordonjcp> of course they would
<Myrtti> AlanBell: if we end up attending the BBQ our glorious leader has planned, I might!
<gordonjcp> you'd just need to make sure their henhouse was reasonably insulated
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: which returns us to point a)
<AlanBell> which BBQ is that? the Debian one?
<Myrtti> the 21st birthday I assume you've been invited to
<Myrtti> and you are
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: ah, they don't need a lot of space
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: I think it might be against the housing rules and the rules laid out by my landlord
<Myrtti> anyway
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: not allowed pets?
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: I had guinea pigs, but they're quiet. Besides there aren't any chicken sold as pets here.
<AlanBell> start a trend
<AlanBell> business opportunity for a modified Finnish Eglu
<gordonjcp> genius
<AlanBell> it is the macbook pro of chicken houses
<Myrtti> awww, they have a picture of a guinea pig at omlets website...
<AlanBell> pretty, desireable, expensive and unmodifiable
<Myrtti> awwwwwwww.
 * brobostigon imagines, warm day, SPlAT, dead chicken.
<ali1234> guinea pig omlette?
<AlanBell> I want a beehaus
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: ?
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: eglu, ice.
<gordonjcp> ah
<AlanBell> brobostigon: eglu is plastic
<brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, ok, sorry.
<AlanBell> http://www.omlet.co.uk/shop/shop.php?cat=Eglu
<gordonjcp> brobostigon: it's why eskimos don't have housewarming parties though
<brobostigon> gordonjcp: haha :)
<AlanBell> 14 ladies Tshirts and 1 mens tshirt
<AlanBell> and it is small only
<brobostigon> i see, they do look, interesting.
<Myrtti> the hampster house looks nice too
<AlanBell> oh noes, I am going to miss the BBQ Myrtti, I will be at UDS
<Myrtti> aw.
<AlanBell> or hanging out in San Francisco
<Myrtti> D will be returning from SF few days before
<Myrtti> that's why we're "maybe" going, not "yes" going
<Myrtti> and yeah, http://www.bhwt.org.uk/cms/enriched-cages-and-colony-eggs/ this is the reason why we have egg shortage
<Myrtti> guinea pig egg cup ;___;
 * AlanBell is off to see Hunger Games later
<dogmatic69> nothing like starting the day with 40+ errors
<dogmatic69> this apport thing is so much like windows
<penguin42> dogmatic69: Oh don't blame apport - it's just the messenger
<dogmatic69> its like that windows 'please wait while we find a solution'
<dogmatic69> and then the error thing crashes
<ali1234> apport does crash a lot
<ali1234> for a crash reported
<ali1234> pretty much every time apport appears, i immediately get another one, because the first one crashed
<popey> I tend to rm -rf /var/crash/* periodically to do a clean start
<popey> apparently in Slovenia the word for Eggs is the same as the word for Testicles. Apparently easter time is fun there.
<popey> Especially when painting eggs is concerned
<penguin42> popey: that's in a few languages apparently
<popey> learn something new each day here
<penguin42> popey: I doubt it's actually the same word as Testicles, more that they use eggs as slang in the same way we use balls
<dogmatic69> my morning so far http://i.imgur.com/sNsda.png
<dogmatic69> its like pokemon... got to get them all
<ali1234> to catch them is your real test
<penguin42> yeh something when something like the window manager or something gets upset a load of other stuff falls over at the same time
<popey> âº
<Myrtti> I've got the vanilla kernel oopsing all the time, but I don't want to reboot in case the libnux bug trashes the whole system
<penguin42> Myrtti: pastebin the oops ?
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<Myrtti> I would if I knew how :-P
<Myrtti> I suppose it's in varlog somewhere
<penguin42> should be in dmesg
<dogmatic69> sup bigcalm o/
<Myrtti> http://paste.ubuntu.com/929320/ dmesg - http://paste.ubuntu.com/929328/ kern.log for yesterday
<penguin42> Myrtti: Well there aren't any actual oops's - in the first one ecryptfs seems to be rather upset, and in both tour wireless isn't happy - the scariest bit is probably the Bad rss-counter state - but I'm just looking that up
<Myrtti> penguin42: well I got apport screaming at me out of a sudden like five times last night, it usually has been kerneloops and apport telling me to report it to kernel.org
<penguin42> Myrtti: Hmm maybe they're in /var/log/kern.log
<Myrtti> after five times of that you kinda start losing interest since there isn't much you can do apart from reporting, and it doesn't seem to be affecting anything
<daubers> lo
<popey> daubers: !
<popey> daubers: managed to get my intensity pro working and then it broke again
<daubers> popey: How did you break it this time?
<daubers> Woooo! I can focus on text again
<daftykins> so many ports on the router here open via UPnP from my own laptop yet i have nfi why :S
<hamitron> infected ;)
<daftykins> i did wonder
<daftykins> but i don't think so
<daftykins> bbl
<Myrtti> ok, I have a weird question...
<Myrtti> does anyone know a font that has really round zeroes, or should I just replace the zeroes with an o as round as possible?
<Myrtti> or should I just make my own font with the three characters I need...
<Myrtti> hmmm...
<penguin42> I'd guess there is a really round thing somewhere in the font
 * AlanBell gives Myrtti an î©
<Myrtti> oooo
<Myrtti> that would work
<Myrtti> stupid utf doesn't do spacing right on my console :-/
<Myrtti> ah but it looks good in Gimp anyway
<Myrtti> brilliant
<Myrtti> <3
<Myrtti> and that reminds me
<Myrtti> â¥
<Myrtti> :-D
<Myrtti> sorry for the noise, /me slinks back to gimping
<penguin42> or one of these parhaps      â
<sagaci> â
<sagaci> damn
<penguin42> it's got weird alignment that one
<penguin42> â¯ is better
<AlanBell> the alignment issues are because it isn't in the font you are using  which is probably monospace, so it picks the glyph from a font that does have it, but keeps the spacing as it is from the monospace font
<penguin42> AlanBell: Incidentally, do you know how missing symbols in fonts in general should be reported - there was someone the other day who couldn't find some vietnamese symbols
<AlanBell> in the Ubuntu font?
<AlanBell> generally the font server picks the symbol from some other font that does have the glyph
<penguin42> AlanBell: We couldn't find any font that had it
 * penguin42 can't actually find the example now
<AlanBell> bug 629622 has some info on font substitutions
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 629622 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) "MIR+FFE: Inclusion of Ubuntu Font Family ~0.69 in Maverick (10.10)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/629622
<ali1234> why does rhythmbox get stuck?
<penguin42> ali1234: Blocking on a device?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> all running aplications are using pulse
<ali1234> seeking in the track or skipping to next track fixes it
<ali1234> it happens roughly every third track
<penguin42> AlanBell: Hmm, not sure that answers it
<AlanBell> fun bug though :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: Yes, a wonderful composition of font encoding, multiple languages and licensing
<penguin42> we really should have a language set that uses all unicode and geeky language just to find untranslated stuff - perhaps all fliptext?
<daftykins> i was transcoding a FLAC album the other day for my portable MP3-only player, the decoder got stuck on the file names containing UTF Â¬_Â¬ had to rename the artist in each file >_<
<daftykins> turns out my shifty ports opening up were just Windows 7's IPv6 over 4 tunneling service, Teredo
<SuperEngineer> o/
<Myrtti> AlanBell: which circle was that?
<SuperEngineer> g'afternoon folks
<Myrtti> I just realised I need a filled one
<Myrtti> as well
<Myrtti> SuperEngineer: hiya
<SuperEngineer> hiyaz Myrtti
<penguin42> Myrtti: The character map lets you search for things like that
<Myrtti> ok, lets see if this works
<directhex> huge curtain success
<SuperEngineer> darn! just spent 2 1/2 hours bug hunting on 12.04 -couldn't find one [new] bug - i must be slipping somewhere!
<daubers> Hmmm.. getting through to the xbox live support line is surprisingly easy
<directhex> daubers: "dear microsoft, that guy I played against online was a douche, can you do something to his mom for me?"
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: do you have an NVidia gfx card? I'm curious because I've heard issues playing youtube videos with flash on 12.04
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: I have an nVidia - installed a *while* back  - just checking which one....
<ali1234> dwatkins: what kind of issues? smurfs everywhere?
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: geForce 210 pci
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins:  are the probs you refere to the "blue taint" talked about on the mail list
<ali1234> it's getting bad when i don't even notice it any more
<SuperEngineer> ali1234: ifit's no longer noticed it surely can't be a bug!
 * SuperEngineer grins as not affected by it - yet
<daubers> directhex: More along the lines of "Dear microsoft, some bum broke into my account and spent lots of my money. Can I have it back please"
<daubers> Within 5 minutes, I have it back
<directhex> daubers: oh. :/ and :) in that order
<SuperEngineer> ...in fact if you'll excuse me, I'll go bbs and switch to 12.04 to see if I can encounter it.
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer is fortunate.
<ali1234> i found loads of bugs :(
<dwatkins> boo hiss for bugs
<Azelphur> does anyone know if bitfolk publishes their sales stats?
<Azelphur> <random question>
<ali1234> why do you want to know?
<Azelphur> ali1234: considering buying part of a vps company
<ali1234> so how would that information be relevant?
<ali1234> assuming said company is not bitfolk?
<Azelphur> indeed it's not, was just interested to see how other vps companies do
<ali1234> why buy a vps company when you can just set up your own?
<Azelphur> because setting up my own requires work
<Azelphur> and I have a buttload of bitcoins sitting around doing nothing
<ali1234> hire someone to do it for you
<ali1234> also, buttcoins lol
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> buttcoins all you want I'm getting 15%/mo
<Azelphur> although not on this vps company, it seems bad
<ali1234> wat
<Azelphur> ali1234: I've been playing the bitcoin stock market :P
<ali1234> the GLBSE?
<Azelphur> yea
<ali1234>  /facepalm
<Azelphur> why? :P
<ali1234> it doesn't exactly have a good reputation
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ali1234> make a TF2 hat exchange
<popey> evening
<ali1234> IPO's - IPO's what?
<Azelphur> ali1234: initial public offering
<Azelphur> think I'mma avoid the bitvps deal though, offering seems crap
<popey> Azelphur: they do publish some numbers yes
<Azelphur> yea, some numbers
<ali1234> get a dedi, put open stack on it, sell super micro VPS instances for bitcoins
<Azelphur> and from what I can see...the numbers are bad :D
<Azelphur> http://www.bitvps.com/investor-relations/bitvps-march-earnings/
<Azelphur> 62B/mo profits...works out at me getting about Â£9/mo for a Â£1000 investment, lol
<Azelphur> unless the company grows significantly, it's a crap deal xD
<ali1234> how much does their vps cost?
<Azelphur> quite good really, like 1B (~Â£3)/mo for the cheapest ones
<ali1234> thats not too bad
<ali1234> openvz though
<Azelphur> openvz and kvm
<ali1234> i still think you should expand your gaming offering :)
<Myrtti> penguin42, AlanBell: http://myrtti.fi/wbackground.png
<Azelphur> ali1234: hehe
<ali1234> is that some kind of code?
<penguin42> ?
<Myrtti> that's what I needed the circle for :-)
<Myrtti> eventually didn't need the white circle but anyway, thanks to your input I looked in the right direction
<Myrtti> ali1234: binary for â¥
<ali1234> 32 bit code?
<Myrtti> no, just 16, I doubled it for pretty, might still do another version where it's more obvious
<Myrtti> no hold on
<Myrtti> yeah, 16
<Myrtti> I should eat something, brain is getting slower
<ali1234> can't make sense of it :/
<Myrtti> 0010 0110 0110 0101?
<ali1234> yeah i got that much
<Myrtti> >>> u'â¥'
<Myrtti> u'\u2665'
<ali1234> so what's the rest of it?
<Myrtti> repetition?
<ali1234> but the second line is 0110011001010010 - http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/6652/index.htm
<ali1234> "dry in sun, expose to sun"
<Myrtti> now you're just being pedantic and ruining my fun :-(
<ali1234> sorry
<AlanBell> maybe that is the honeymoon
<ali1234> maybe it's some kind of weird recipe?
<Myrtti> meh, if I make it tile normally it looks too repetetive :-(
<ali1234> oh it's supposed to tile? ok
<Myrtti> perhaps I should've added the heart on it too
<ali1234> why not used â¥ instead of circle?
<AlanBell> gosh, dad is posting pictures to facebook from Shotwell
<ali1234> "brogrammers"
<Laney> filleting a fish is hard work
<Laney> when do I get to be grown up?
<AlanBell> I am going straight to Old
<AlanBell> and "brogrammers" is a dreadful word that should never have been uttered
<ali1234> i agree
<jacobw> 'blowgrammers'
<jacobw> that seems worse
<gordonjcp> people who program only in iambic pentameter
<gordonjcp> "flowgrammers"
 * jacobw thinks of lisp
<jacobw> o/ SuperEngineer
<arsen> beers with daftykins \o/
<jacobw> yum
<SuperEngineer> o/  jacobw
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: was it your good self asking re blue tint in youtube?
<SuperEngineer> because the answer is most definitely - yes
<dwatkins> SuperEngineer: yes, it was me. Do you mean you have experienced it?
<SuperEngineer> in 10.04 - no
<SuperEngineer> in 12.04... well have you have you wver heard a person of African decent state that they're proud to be BLUE!?
<SuperEngineer> - talk of "tint" - that is overpoweringly blue!
<SuperEngineer> ...and also found [for other reasons] Minitube in 12.04 to be a complete fail... & that's today's bug reported ;)
<dwatkins> I gather the tint issue is due to the graphics card. If you're running the same flash version in 10.04 and 12.04, that would seem to strengthen that supposition.
<ali1234> the smurf bug is caused by flash player sending swapped planes to the nvidia hardware video decoder
<ali1234> versions of flash prior to 11.2 didn't use hardware decoding
<dwatkins> oh ok, so it is a flash issue
<ali1234> so basically, their last ever version they'll make has a brand new, completely untested and broken feature
<dwatkins> I assume the workaround is to disable hardware acceleration, then, ali1234
<ali1234> that's one of them
<dwatkins> I suspect there will be bug fixes.
<ali1234> there's actually two stages to hardware decoding
<ali1234> the decoding, and the rendering
<dwatkins> makes sense, yeah
<ali1234> flash plugin can use both
<ali1234> but the rendering stage is really buggy and constantly crashes
<ali1234> so by default it decodes in hardware, then copies back to memory and software blits the result
<dwatkins> what's buggy, flash's implementation or the NVidia driver's?
<ali1234> that's where the bug happens
<ali1234> if you enable both stages in hardware, the bug goes away
<ali1234> bug then it crashes
<ali1234> likewise if you disable both stages the bug goes away, but then fullscreen video goes at about 2 fps
<ali1234> the reason this is all known is because a nvidia engineer reverse engineered the bug and made a patched version of libvdpau which manually swaps the planes given from flash player
<ali1234> so it's absolutely a bug in flash player
<dwatkins> the rendering stage of what is buggy, NVidia driver or flash player?
<ali1234> also the bug has been reported several times on adobe bug tracker and they are all closed as wont fix, unsupported
<dwatkins> yeah, that's not good
<dwatkins> suffice to say although I'm not involved, I may be able to find out more and pass information on to the relevant people, ali1234
<ali1234> relevant people?
<dwatkins> the department in question, or product manager
<ali1234> at which company?
<dwatkins> Adobe
<SuperEngineer> lol
<dwatkins> ali1234: di I have you on G+?
<ali1234> yes
<SuperEngineer> ..now rthat's trhew position to be in to fix this!
<SuperEngineer> ...and just appearing on slashdor - http://linux.slashdot.org/story/12/03/31/1417245/adobe-releases-last-linux-version-of-flash-player?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
<SuperEngineer> *slashdot
<dwatkins> thanks SuperEngineer
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<dwatkins> ah right, that's from a couple weeks ago
<SuperEngineer> ah well - just tryin to be helpful
<dwatkins> cheers :)
<ali1234> yeah that was from before we found out that the last ever version is unusable
<dwatkins> I gather there will probably be security fixes, so bug fixes are also likely to be provided, especially if there's a large impact (all users with NVidia cards, for example)
<ali1234> like the fullscreen bugs, i doubt it
<ali1234> it's really lame when we tell them exactly what is wrong down to the point of exactly which function they are using incorrectly and how to fix it, and they still can't manage it after several years
<ali1234> and instead, they write blog posts about how linux is too hard for them
<ali1234> if we can work around it without the source code, then their developers are seriously incompetent
<dwatkins> I am not aware of these issues, so cannot comment.
<ali1234> in fact i would say grossly neglegent to the point where they are lying by describing themselves as developers
<SuperEngineer> on the bright side - if all the wprld is blue.... discrimination could be a thing long gong ;)
<ali1234> it only turns white people blue
<dwatkins> ali1234: I'll see what I can do.
<SuperEngineer> nope - it turns other skins blu as well - /I recognised the face of the blue-african-american!
<dwatkins> Is it an issue with all NVidia cards/drivers? Just wondering if my Macbook Pro would be affected if I were to install Ubuntu locally.
<ali1234> it affects any nvidia card that supports vdpau?
<dwatkins> I'm not familiar with particular capabilities of cards, but I'll just work on the assumption it affects all recent cards, I guess.
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> thing is, you can just disable the hardware acceleration and go back to the sucky slow 10.x behaviour
<dwatkins> yeah, that's far from ideal, though
<ali1234> but it's such a trivial bug i can't see how it ever got beyond the developer's local build
<dwatkins> again, not being involved, I would only be speculating if I commented :)
<ali1234> it should have been caught long before QA
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: haha local build
<ali1234> the only way this could have happened is nobody at all tested the feature before it was released
<ali1234> the workaround is literally 3 lines of code which catches and swaps the arguments to a single function
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: sounds like Ubuntu
 * SuperEngineer thinks developet hated jazz... but lu=oved blues
<SuperEngineer> *developer
<ali1234> i've never seen such a trivial bug in ubuntu
<ali1234> it's trivial to reproduce and trivial to fix
<ali1234> and it's a huge advert for why proprietary software is so terrible
<dwatkins> ali1234: are you on a system that exhibits the colour swap issue right now and would you mind confirming it happens on a video of mine?
<ali1234> i'll try
<dwatkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foJ6EAk7_Wk
<ali1234> i can provide hundreds of youtube videos where it happens
<ali1234> it does not happen on all though
<dwatkins> yeah, I need one that I own ;)
<ali1234> depends on uploaded format i think
<ali1234> yeah that video doesn't do it
<dwatkins> ok, that was from my phone
<ali1234> that video plays in html5 player for me
<dwatkins> yeah I suspected it might
<ali1234> with html5 trial disabled -> blue hands
<dwatkins> aha ok, thanks
<daftykins> i hadn't heard Adobe were running away from Linux again
<daftykins> didn't seem all that long ago that flash 64-bit finally reared its' head properly
<ali1234> they are slowly killing off flash
<MartijnVdS> they should do it quickly
<daftykins> ah they've given in, good good
<ali1234> can you guess who sold it to them?
<ali1234> clue: he's currently running a respected mobile phone manufacturer into the ground
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: The guy who runs Nokia?
<AlanBell> anyone know what I could use to generate something a bit like this: http://doc.openerp.com/v5.0/_images/pom_3_0_3.png
<ali1234> right.
<daftykins> sold what?
<ali1234> macromedia. to adobe.
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: generate or make?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'd use graphviz
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: fairly dynamic
<daftykins> ali1234: oic
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you generate a graphviz source file, and it generates the picture for you
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it comes with several programs (for several kinds of graph)
<AlanBell> ah right, I had seen some, but not anything appropriate
<AlanBell> http://www.graphviz.org/content/datastruct that looks like it might do the job
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.graphviz.org/Documentation/dotguide.pdf
<penguin42> yeh, it takes a little practice to persuade graphviz/dot to produce what you want - but it's pretty much the defacto for wrangling graphs
<dwatkins> ali1234: okay to PM you?
<ali1234> sure
<ali1234> i've said pretty much everything there is to say though :)
<daubers> Evening
 * daubers is slightly amused that the wiring regs has a whole section on labels
<popey> bug  981891
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 981891 in unity (Ubuntu) "icons on the left and the top disappear, but actions still work if you move the mouse to where the icons used to me." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/981891
<ali1234> popey: i think that bug needs a screenshot
<ali1234> oh wait, you didn't report it
<ali1234> sounds like the whole UI disappeared including top panel? never seen anything like that here...
<popey> i saw it today
<popey> i also had an interesting multiscreen bug today
<popey> after plugging external screen in and playing about a bit, it thought the internal resolution was the 32px wide launcher
<popey> so all windows got pushed into that space
<popey> unplug external screen and it fixed itself
<popey> plug screen back in, and it went wonky again
<ali1234> i never change the monitors, and in fact i have to hardcode everything in xorg.conf to stop it from spazzing out whenever i reboot
 * jacobw is still scared from gnome-panel's problems with changing resolutions
<ali1234> yeah
<AlanBell> everyone in the design team and desktop team should be issued with two monitors of assorted sizes
<AlanBell> and then someone should move them about every couple of days
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> i don't think multimonitor is that bad
<AlanBell> it is getting better, but everything doesn't support it from day 1 and then it gets tacked on
<ali1234> what they should actually do is give them all a mouse set to minimum sensitivity, a mouse mat that's 10cm square, and a keyboard with no windows key
<popey> it was high priority from day one of the P cycle
<popey> haha ali1234
<gordonjcp> oh the windows key thing is annoying
<ali1234> i've seen a lot of the bugs getting fixed
<popey> my toshiba laptop has a windows key where you would find a printscreen key
<ali1234> closing windows from wrong monitor fix just went in today i think
<popey> yet another reason I'll never buy a toshiba again âº
<gordonjcp> what, I'm meant to ditch my IBM Model M because some twat decides that it should have a silly pointless button for an OS I don't use?
<AlanBell> there has been a lot of focus on multimonitor this cycle, this is true
<ali1234> gordonjcp: i thought you only used command line anyway?
<gordonjcp> ali1234: an X desktop is a handy way to run lots of terminals
<ali1234> i disabled the windows and alt keys in ccsm and i like it that way
<ali1234> that effectively disabled the hud and any kind of keyboard interaction with the launcher
<ali1234> also you can remap them like any other compiz key
<AlanBell> yeah, I set my HUD to super+alt
<AlanBell> lots safer
<dwatkins> I wonder if doing that will allow me to switch away from virtualbox
<ali1234> while attempting to remap the windows key to something else, i've somehow got the launcher stuck out
<ali1234> dwatkins: install guest utils :/
<AlanBell> dwatkins: virtualbox was the reason I changed it, the HUD was stealing the keyboard
<ali1234> then no need to press host key - you can remap that in vbox too
<dwatkins> ali1234: I think I did that, but will check - it might be that I had it fullscreened, also
<ali1234> yeah fullscreen is hit and miss
<ali1234> i prefer to just maximize the window
<AlanBell> and I turn off the shortcuts overlay because I use super+mousewheel for enhanced zoom
<AlanBell> I submitted a patch to turn that on by default actually, but I don't think it ever got reviewed
<ali1234> me too
<ali1234> i just disabled super entirely, that kills the shortcuts thing too
<AlanBell> Bug #975029
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 975029 in compiz-plugins-main (Ubuntu) "bindings to activate ezoom not set" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/975029
<ali1234> subbed
<ali1234> and voted
<ali1234> remember to vote for bugs!
<AlanBell> it was discussed on the unity-design mailing list, everyone liked the idea, I filed a bug, added a patch, emailed the list to say I had done it. Not sure what happens next.
<popey> possibly too late now
<AlanBell> the muzzling of compiz does make me sad, we turn off so much good stuff
<popey> but ask didrocks in #ubuntu-unity on mondau
<ali1234> why was it even turned off? it was working 2 months ago
<ali1234> oh wait, they pushed that package that reset everything to defaults....
<popey> I _think_ because like workspaces, people get "stuck" in it
<ali1234> i must have had an old config
<ali1234> ezoom used to be bugged and you could get stuck
<AlanBell> it does expose the badly implemented and annoying top bar shadow as being badly implemented and annoying
<ali1234> with dual monitor... the mouse would hop to the other screen
<ali1234> and yo couldn't zoom out of move it (cos it was grabbed)
<ali1234> but now it works *perfectly*
<AlanBell> the shadow is part of the real screen and zooms, the top panel is in nux and doesn't
<ali1234> yeah i like that a lot
<ali1234> the launcher also stays
<ali1234> the top bar shadow can just die for all  care :)
<popey> +1
<ali1234> i should acually close that ezoom bug i opened
<ali1234> since it's fixed
<ali1234> if i can even find it
<silner> AlanBell: Yeah I'm a bit disappointed about compiz. I never used it but, I respected the achievement. We should have been prouder
<dogmatic69> I have added my self to the group www-data and done chown -R www-data:www-data ./ && chmod -R g+rw ./
<dogmatic69> still cant do anything to the files :(
<ali1234> you might need X as well
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> thought so, just g+x ?
<ali1234> as in chmod -R g+X
<ali1234> NOT x
<ali1234> X
<ali1234> uper case
<dogmatic69> ow, what is the diff?
<ali1234> X sets recursively on directories only
<ali1234> x bit on directory = you can list contents
<ali1234> if you specified lower case it would make all files executable as well
<dogmatic69> ah, so x == * and X == folders
<ali1234> yeah
<dogmatic69> cool, thanks.
<ali1234> it's a special case for the x bit
<ali1234> see man chmod
<dogmatic69> ye, you cant really execute a folder
<AlanBell> it means you can cd into it
<AlanBell> (roughly)
<jacobw> s/folder/directory/g
<ali1234> well...
<dogmatic69> that will explain why git did not want to init
<dogmatic69> still though :/
<dogmatic69> drwxrwxr-x  8 www-data   www-data  4096
<dogmatic69> that is ls -al
<dogmatic69> they all like that (folders)
<dogmatic69> -rw-rw-r--  1 www-data   www-data <- files
<ali1234> seems reasonable
<dogmatic69> `groups dogmatic69` == dogmatic69 : users www-data
<dogmatic69> so i am in users and www-data
<dogmatic69> just tried editing a random file and no dice
<dogmatic69> :O
<dogmatic69> closed terminal and started over, works now
<ali1234> when you add yourself to a group, it doesn't happen immediately
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> that would be why then. so the chmod would have been fine, just the group stuff needed a new session
<ali1234> you can either start a new session or there's some command you can use that i can never remember
<dogmatic69> easy enough to exit and start over. would be handy to know with that screen thing though
<dogmatic69> I am up to 8 tabs open on my other server and would be a pain having to close them all :D
<ali1234> newgrp i think
<dogmatic69> found out something about my hibernate bug today
<ali1234> note you have to run it in every session anyway
<dogmatic69> ye
<ali1234> ssh localhost also works :)
<dogmatic69> figured as much, its like changing the .bashrc files
<dogmatic69> bug 976276
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 976276 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Suspend either logs out or reboots, not suspend" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/976276
<dogmatic69> apparently this is not a bug...
<ali1234> suspend to disk is disabled i think
<ali1234> didn't i say that last time?
<dogmatic69> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/policykit-desktop-privileges/+bug/812394
<dogmatic69> ye
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 812394 in Ayatana Design "Disable hibernate option by default" [High,Fix released]
<dogmatic69> that is *LAME*
<ali1234> meh
<ali1234> i've never used it
<ali1234> un-hibernate takes longer than rebooting
<silner> Wasn't it disabled because it wouldn't wake on some systems and lost data ali1234 ?
<AlanBell> dogmatic69: why doesn't your computer just suspend?
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: it just kicks to the login screen / restarts
<AlanBell> suspend should probably work, hibernate isn't a feature any more
<AlanBell> laptop or desktop?
<dogmatic69> desktop
<dogmatic69> it worked on this pc with 10.10 x64
<AlanBell> newish or oldish?
<AlanBell> did suspend work or hibernate?
<dogmatic69> oldis, asus P5N-D + Q6600 intel
<dogmatic69> suspend
<AlanBell> so you would see a pulsating power light or something when it is asleep, press it and it wakes up?
<popey> ooh, i have same mobo
<ali1234> i think i have a P5N around here somewhere
<dogmatic69> was pretty high tech back in the day :P
<hamitron> indeed, I still want one ;)
<dogmatic69> no SATA 3, was just before that
<dogmatic69> dual SLI, 8gigs ram
<popey> mine doesnt have a Q6600 in, which is the highest spec I think that mobo will take
<dogmatic69> not fantastic for OC'ing but ok
<dogmatic69> popey: i think so, there was only about two or three other CPU's better that the Q6600 at the time but were +- 3x the price
<dogmatic69> had this pc 5 years or so now. only just replaced the ram and got SSD. apart from that its all museum pieces
<dogmatic69> I will try the suspend when I got to bed again. Last time I am sure it just restarted
<AlanBell> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1537742
<AlanBell> Bug #362752
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 362752 in linux (Ubuntu) "[System manufacturer P5N-D] suspend/resume failure [non-free: nvidia]" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/362752
<dogmatic69> AlanBell: ha, thing you found everything related to this
<dogmatic69> the bug is a bit different, mine is not crashing (that I know of)
<AlanBell> yeah, might be different, but might point to some real problem with that mobo
<ali1234> it might be crashing right before it suspends, so that it just looks like a normal reboot
<ali1234> very hard to catch that
<AlanBell> anyhow, you might have a valid bug relating to suspend, however hibernate is the feature that got dropped so don't mention that in the bug report!
<dogmatic69> possibly. I think that forum is on to something, but its windows config. I did have a good fiddle with the bios when I replaced the SSD, obviously
<dogmatic69> this is nice http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nouveau_linux_stable&num=1
<ali1234> nouveau doesn't work at all on my card
<ali1234> crashes within 5 minutes every time
<dogmatic69> what you got?
<ali1234> gt240
<dogmatic69> dont say a GT9800
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> little newer than mine
<hamitron> is the driver that bad?
<dogmatic69> that article says its stable and being considered for linux kernel
<hamitron> if nouveau is bad, I will have to give up the idea of using a modern distro :/
<hamitron> like a fool, I bought all the same hardware ages ago, to make video setup "easier"
<hamitron> ;)
 * hamitron headbutts nvidia
<Myrtti> meh
<Myrtti> I'm not sure if this version is any improvement to the original
<Myrtti> oh well, apparently it is, so - http://myrtti.fi/wbackground_heart.png
<AlanBell> very nice Myrtti
<Myrtti> yeah, it's got the approval of the other half ;-)
<gordonjcp> looks good
<gordonjcp> very subtle
<mgdm> evening
<Myrtti> I'm not overly fond of the pink heart but it didn't look good in any other colour either
<Myrtti> I've got the xcf's saved in case I ever change the colours.
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: it might be better if it was very slightly darker so it matches the darker grey dots?
<mgdm> how's things?
<Myrtti> gordonjcp: might give it a whirl at some point
<Myrtti> thanks for the input everyone
<gordonjcp> Myrtti: looks good
<gordonjcp> although I've spent five minutes trying to see if it's got something encoded in it
<Myrtti> nothing but the â¥
<Myrtti> if you're wondering of the darkness, it's just to break the repetition a bit
<Myrtti> s/darkness/dark spots/
<Myrtti> and to highlight the fact that that particular one is different from the rest on the binary
#ubuntu-uk 2012-04-15
<dogmatic69> ls -al .fonts/ | wc -l
<dogmatic69> that would give a count of files right?
<dwatkins> including . and ..
<dwatkins> but the count would also be incorrect as you're doing a long listing, use -1 (number one) to show just filenames, dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> ye, also extra line at the top
<dogmatic69> ah, that is better
<dogmatic69> just has the extra line now, think its file size
<dogmatic69> ls -l .fonts/ | wc -l == ?
<dogmatic69> 4543 :D
<dogmatic69> can I complain about inkskape taking 5 minutes to open?
<dogmatic69> libre office opens within 5 seconds
<dwatkins> strace is your friend
<dwatkins> strace -fro /tmp/inkscape.trace path/to/inkscape/binary
<dogmatic69> ?
<dwatkins> start inkscape up like that, then examine the trace file to see what's hapenning before and after the delay
<dogmatic69> doing it now
<dogmatic69> (inkscape:10054): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in module_path: "pixmap",
<dogmatic69> done that 4x and stuck now
<dogmatic69> need a ajax loading thingy
<dogmatic69> 2.6MB file
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: its doing stat on virtually the entire hdd
<dwatkins> eh?
<dogmatic69> in that trace, there are masses of stat("/path/to/random/files")
<dwatkins> ok, that may or may not be the problem
<dogmatic69> all sorts, images, svgs, documents, configs in .evolution etc
<dogmatic69> also on my mapped network drive which could be the problem
<dwatkins> might be worth looking up bugs relating to delays starting inkscape, dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> 2300+ calls to stat
<dwatkins> bug 488247 might be worth a read, dogmatic69
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 488247 in Inkscape "Inkscape is slow starting" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488247
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: thanks, seems they just need to implement cache
<dogmatic69> should be an easy one
<dwatkins> ah good
<meet> is there any game related channel?
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> hiya
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<popey> mnt
<popey> er
<popey> mng
<czajkowski> morning
<brobostigon> dng
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<brobostigon> RAWR
 * dwatkins hands brobostigon a small plastic dinosaur holding a cupcake
 * brobostigon takes the dinosaur, and plays with it on his desk, and make dinosaur type noises.
<gordonjcp> and we shall call this land "our land"
<popey> hah
<SuperEngineer> a quick question re 12.04... I have no "system" [alert] sounds though all sound tests check out ok.
<SuperEngineer>  am I experiencing a bug or experiencing intended behaviour?
<StevenR> SuperEngineer: are system alert sounds enabled?
<StevenR> (I have them disabled, but I guess that's not the default)
<SuperEngineer> yes - and test out ok, the directory is there, the sounds are there, all programs using sound are ok.
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, in fact I have just gone back to sound settings & they *all* work from there, but not in 'real' use.
 * StevenR goes to grab an iso to spin up a test vm
<SuperEngineer> cheers StevenR
<StevenR> eta 15 mins probably
<StevenR> (iso in 5, VM in another 10 or so)
<SuperEngineer> btw... the System Ready sound is ok, the "Ubuntu wiggle" desktop sound I hear rumoured is disabled to keep the ISO to Cd size [even though still included!] so that is dubious - but *no* other alert sounds work at all in real use
<gordonjcp> man I'd love it if all the alert sounds would stay disabled
<SuperEngineer> gordonjcp, - then disable them?
<gordonjcp> SuperEngineer: they don't stay disabled
<gordonjcp> they need to be *gone*
<SuperEngineer> gordonjcp, it appearsa you the "reverse" of my fault ;)
<gordonjcp> it's bloody annoying
<SuperEngineer> gordonjcp, - then disable them by removing the folder holding them?
<gordonjcp> why would you want your computer to make silly noises all the time?
<gordonjcp> SuperEngineer: because when you update Ubuntu, they come back
<gordonjcp> and doing an update appears to reset them all back to enabled
<SuperEngineer> gordonjcp, oh - didn't think of that
<gordonjcp> what I ended up doing was setting all the sounds to zero-length files and setting them immutable
 * SuperEngineer puts on dunces hat
<SuperEngineer> ...but if personally like the occasional 'blob' sound or real alert when needed.
<SuperEngineer> *but I
<gordonjcp> I'm sure the resetting it back to defaults is a bug
<gordonjcp> SuperEngineer: I don't, because it comes through the speakers
<gordonjcp> and interrupts whatever else is playing
<gordonjcp> bloody irritating, you're playing some music, a window pops open for something with an earsplitting "WHOOONK!"
<SuperEngineer> then stop making errors causing alerts or closing programs or doing other normal things !
<gordonjcp> also, the pulseaudio thing is stupid
<gordonjcp> why would you want two programs to make noises at the same time, especially when the sound plays about ten seconds after the app actually fires the event
<SuperEngineer> ...as per several previous - it's not a problem for me... alert sounds are not working ;)
<SuperEngineer> gordonjcp, just a thought... are your "annoying" system sounds in 12.04 or older distro?
<gordonjcp> 11.10
<SuperEngineer> ah!
<gordonjcp> I tried 12.04 on my desktop but I only have 2G of RAM
<gordonjcp> so I can't even get a desktop up
 * StevenR watches the VM's installer progress bar *creep* across the window
 * SuperEngineer hands gordonjcp a plate full of sympathy
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, don't let it hear you call it a "creep" - it will fail in retaliation!
<gordonjcp> SuperEngineer: I really hope that the final version of 12.04 needs less memory
<gordonjcp> SuperEngineer: I've got it "running" on a core i5 at work with 4G, it's kind of usable
<gordonjcp> as long as you don't open any programs
<dwatkins> 12.04 needs more than a gig or RAM? wow
<gordonjcp> it appears to need more than 2G
 * StevenR allocated 4G for the vm
<StevenR> *sigh* it's still installing :S
<SuperEngineer> gordonjcp, just a thought - i've only got the same as you - it's fine - apart from the alert sounds
<SuperEngineer> [as in - fine & fast]
<StevenR> oh. wow. that booted up rather fast
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<SuperEngineer> gordonjcp, I'd be having a looksee inside the pooter itself if I were your good self
 * StevenR runs updates
<StevenR> SuperEngineer: alert volume turned up?
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, yup
<gordonjcp> SuperEngineer: for what?
<StevenR> SuperEngineer: ~/.xsession-errors show anything failing?
<SuperEngineer> [only to 100% - not tried higher - though that shouldn't be neccessay if it's not a bug]
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, hang on pretty please - I'll have a looksee
<dwatkins> 12.04 is using just under 1 GB of RAM on my virtual machine, which has 1 GB allocated to it.
<StevenR> dwatkins: is that the "free" or -buffers/cache value? (see free -mt)
<StevenR> the kernel will cache as much as it can
<dwatkins> StevenR: http://paste.ubuntu.com/930847/
<StevenR> dwatkins: so actually using 403MB
<StevenR> :D
<dwatkins> yeah, so 'using' in the sense there's a lot of cache, yeah
<dwatkins> I couldn't say how much swap was used during installation, of course
<StevenR> SuperEngineer: tried a different sound theme?
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, tried them all
<StevenR> :(
<StevenR> SuperEngineer: is this an upgrade or fresh install? HAve you tried a new user?
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, the only stuff showing in xseesion-error relate to video with Cairo dock - which is working fine actually - nothing that could be related to a sound or sound related call
<SuperEngineer> [in fact *everything* shown in xsession-errors & .old are *all* actually working 100%
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, thias is a fresh install from beta1 onwards
<SuperEngineer> fully uodated
<StevenR> maybe try a fresh "test user" ?
<SuperEngineer> yeh... that could worth a try [but I'm not expecting much difference] ;)
<SuperEngineer> [just tried the quick option running as guest - tna]
<SuperEngineer> bbs - gonna try as a new user user
<penguin42> does anyone know what a 'Locally Integrated Menu' is?
<popey> yes
<penguin42> now will you tell us?
<popey> sure
<popey> google it, omg had an article with a screenshot
<penguin42> so it turns the top level menu into a drop down on an icon?
<popey> ya
<penguin42> ah ok
<brobostigon> my phone has finally decided, to upgrade itself, from google marlet, to google play.
<brobostigon> market*
<MartijnVdS> yay?
<brobostigon> well, it does seem alittle more resource friendly, and alittle faster.
<MartijnVdS> I've upgraded my Galaxy Nexus to 4.0.4
<MartijnVdS> Camera is fast again now
<brobostigon> :)
 * brobostigon is back on 2.3.7
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, you still here?
<StevenR> o/
<arsen> why does zgrep have a max number of arguements :/
<SuperEngineer> StevenR, no difference under a new user... guess it's a bug - no need to track down hardware or software - thanks for the suggestions
<SuperEngineer> *now
 * StevenR nods
<bigcalm> Afternoon peeps :)
<sagaci> evening bigcalm
 * bigcalm checks his watch
 * SuperEngineer thinks hmmm - could get to like this Pangolin thing - darn!
<popey> pip pip bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hazar, a wild popey appears
<SuperEngineer> [yeh -must have finished playing Angry
<SuperEngineer> Birds
<popey> just finished washing up after making sunday roast actually âº
<bigcalm> Then it might be time to dig
<popey> heh
 * bigcalm desires lunch, but Hayley isn't ready for it
<popey> bigcalm: you should join snowflake irc âº
<bigcalm> popey: you should msg me the details :)
<bigcalm> Ah, found the info
<SuperEngineer> whoops - just tried the "How to create a Wikipedia Unity lens for Ubuntu" - big screen crash - my fault âº
<zleap> hello
<ali1234> can i get apt to automatically install build-dep whenever i install a package?
<tsimpson> I suspect the answer is "no", because that would be an odd thing for it to do
<ali1234> why would it be odd?
<tsimpson> what would be the purpose if that?
<ali1234> what i really want to do is recursively install build dependencies for everything
<tsimpson> but, why?
<ali1234> because i hate waiting for build-deps to download
<tsimpson> no, why do you need build dependencies  for *everything*?
<ali1234> so that i'll never have to get interrupted waiting for build-deps in the middle of trying to do something
<tsimpson> installing build-deps is fine, but build-deps of build-deps etc, seems insane to me
<tsimpson> but, if you really want to, you could create a script named apt-get in ~/bin/ that intercepts the apt-get command and also installs build-deps etc
<tsimpson> ie: I doubt anyone has published a tool to do that already, so you'd have to make it yourself
<AlanBell> could do it as a bash alias
<dwatkins> What am I missing not installing build-deps? I don't tend to compile from source.
<shauno> you could probably wrangle something with DPkg::Post-Invoke, but I'd be really quite cautious of sending dpkg into a loop
<penguin42> ali1234: IMHO it would be more useful to get dpkg-buildpackage to install the build-deps when it realises they're not there
<ali1234> unless i don't want to recompile with dpkg
<penguin42> ah well if you're building it and configuring it different then it might have different build-deps
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> which is why i want as many as possible already installed
<ali1234> because then i'll have to wait for less to install
 * AlanBell is being very English and doing a bbq in the rain
<penguin42> are the chicken watching?
<penguin42> or do they have an erm...more active part in the bbq ?
<gordonjcp> haha
<Myrtti> lol
<AlanBell> not this time, they are just spectators
<Azelphur> What's a good thing to use to send money instead of paypal?
<Azelphur> They just nuked a friends account :<
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: just "send cash to a friend" type of thing?
<Azelphur> yea
<MartijnVdS> bitcoins :P
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, we would use bitcoins but he needs to purchase stuff from retailers that only accept USD
<MartijnVdS> So.. direct bank transfer?
<Azelphur> although it is bitcoin related business
<MartijnVdS> (those are instant in .nl, don't know about the UK)
<Azelphur> could do, but I dunno how well banks do with the whole currency conversion thing?
<MartijnVdS> It's their job ;)
<MartijnVdS> But sending money to another country might take longer
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Is it all in one country, or are you in different ones?
<Azelphur> different countries
<Azelphur> he's canada, I'm UK
<MartijnVdS> Canada, that's better than the US ;)
<Azelphur> luckily paypal lets him refund recent transactions
<Azelphur> or they would have eaten $1000 of mine :/
<Azelphur> refunded it all back to me and I'll send it to him a different way haha
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: My bank has a page (one for each country) on how to wire money there
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: that's pretty handy
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: maybe yours does too?
<Azelphur> my bank is santander
<Azelphur> they don't do anything handy ever
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.santander.co.uk/csgs/Satellite?appID=abbey.internet.Abbeycom&c=Page&canal=CABBEYCOM&cid=1210607023591&empr=Abbeycom&leng=en_GB&pagename=Abbeycom%2FPage%2FWC_ACOM_TemplateA2#Sending a payment to someone overseas;
<Azelphur> ah fun :P
<Azelphur> besides that though, is there any replacement for paypal that doesn't suck balls.
<dwatkins> I think they pretty much have the market cornered, Azelphur.
<Azelphur> :<
<ali1234> santander sucks man
<MartijnVdS> Western Union?
<MartijnVdS> Canada needs to join the EU -- it would make this a lot easier/cheaper ;)
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
<penguin42> they should apply, I mean distance wise it's probably as close as some other places
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: policy-wise as well.. and it'd annoy the hell out of the US :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: Plus they already have your queen.. so it's a small step!
<penguin42> hey hey - lets be careful who is having our Majesty
<MartijnVdS> OK "they share a queen with you".. better?
<penguin42> sharing nowt - they can have a bit of Prince Phillip if they really want
<daubers> o/
<MartijnVdS> \o daubster
<MartijnVdS> hmm..
<MartijnVdS> daubers: if you start making music, we need to call it "daubstep"
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I'm still learning the banjo if that helps
<gordonjcp> yes daub | flite -f -
<MartijnVdS> flite?
<constrictor> has anyone had any luck installing the lenses from here? http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/10-unity-lenses-scopes/2
<constrictor> sorry http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/10-unity-lenses-scopes/
<constrictor> apt keeps telling me the ppa is not found http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/10-unity-lenses-scopes/
<MartijnVdS> constrictor: which version of Ubuntu are you running?
<MartijnVdS> this is an article from January, Unity has changed since then
<constrictor> precise
<MartijnVdS> constrictor: those PPAs are for 11.10 (oneiric)
<constrictor> ah i see
<constrictor> MartijnVdS: are there any for precise yet?
<MartijnVdS> lots of lenses for precise
<MartijnVdS> no idea where, but I've read people were making them
<constrictor> is there one ppa or are they all over he place
<constrictor> i found one if youre interested. The one I was looking for was for my google contacts and I think there's one for precise here
<constrictor> https://launchpad.net/~atareao/+archive/lenses
<MartijnVdS> First: think of what kind of lens you want
<MartijnVdS>  then: go look for it
<constrictor> ta
<ali1234> hmm
 * MartijnVdS considers http://www.voltaicsystems.com/fuse4w.shtml
<bittin> the trunk kernel is kinda stable in DebianPPC :o
<MartijnVdS> ?
<Azelphur> Is there a useful editor so I can see what my readme would look like on github?
<Azelphur> trying to write it in a text editor with no idea of the line length and stuff always results in bad
<MartijnVdS> Don't people call it "README.md" on github?
<Azelphur> yea
<AlanBell> markdown
<MartijnVdS> so.. look for a markdown viewer :)
<Azelphur> aha, I found a live preview site on it
<Azelphur> http://github.github.com/github-flavored-markdown/preview.html \o/
<daubers> ping AlanBell
<AlanBell> o/
<daubers> Can I ask for a set of CD's please? Am organising a stand at the NADAR rally for the reading hackspace so would have space for Ubuntu CD's :)
<AlanBell> sure, want to wait for the 12.04 ones?
<AlanBell> when is the event?
<daubers> Yes please :)
<daubers> 17th of June
<AlanBell> oh great, no problem then
<daubers> http://www.nadars.org.uk/rally.asp
<daubers> It's only Â£7.50 for a stand if the UUK folks wanted to look at getting one
<gordonjcp> ooo
<gordonjcp> a radio rally that happens shortly after I get paid!
<daubers> heh
<AlanBell> day after my birthday
<gordonjcp> I was going to go to Blackpool today but I get paid on Tuesday...
<Azelphur> anyone know how to check if a key is signed with gpg?
<bigcalm> Is there a way to view binary files in hex?
<ahayzen> bigcalm: GHex may do the trick
<ali1234> how do i get to the indicator icons with the keyboard?
<ali1234> mouse stopped working :/
<ahayzen> ali1234: Press F10 then use the arrow keys
<ali1234> didn;t work
<ahayzen> =-O
<ali1234> SDL mouse grab has messed up unity
<ali1234> alt tab doesn't work
<ali1234> alt ` doesn't work
<ali1234> i can't click on anything at all
<ali1234> i can press windows-tab to get to launcher icons
<ali1234> i can click on things inside the focused window but clicking n a different window does nothing
<ali1234> can only change by windows-tab through launcher icons
<ali1234> this is really weird
<ali1234> well that was odd
<daftykins> 0o
<jacobw> i've experienced that before when using a usb mouse in gtk environment
<ali1234> i use a usb mouse in gtk all day every day
<jacobw> i think the mouse button events are trapped by some window level
<ali1234> yeah, it;s saomething to do with this SDL program i was just using for sure
<ali1234> it grabs the mouse
<ali1234> can't seem to reproduce it though
<daftykins> i'm sure you will when you next really need to get something done D
<daftykins> * :D
<ali1234> it was something to do with window focus
<ali1234> cos i had to alt-f4 all windows until there were none, then i could click unity stuff... when it got focus by default
<jacobw> the only correlation i've noticed is with using gimp
<ali1234> then i could log out and log in again
<jacobw> so i find window focus plausible
<bigcalm> Western Digital or Seagate for 2 x 500gb SATA3 drives?
<daftykins> always been a WD fan myself but i don't think it really makes any difference
<bigcalm> Ta
<popey> bigcalm: buy one of each
<bigcalm> For a raid
<popey> less likely they'll both fail at the same time
<popey> exactly
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> You have a good point :)
<popey> i have had two drives from the same batch fail within a month or so of eachother
<bigcalm> Obviously you haven't been drinking 8.5% alc Belgium beer
<popey> âº
<popey> 12.5% red wine actually
<bigcalm> (best time to make online purchases)
<bigcalm> I think the CO2 in the beer attaches the alc to hemoglobin. Thus a half pint of shandy will induce the same state as a pint of beer in the short term
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> my friend got drunk enough the other night and woke up to confirmation order emails
<bigcalm> Damn, if I can pontificate about this, I haven't drunk enough
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> back to the fridge with you! responsibly i mean...
<bigcalm> I've ordered 8gb of ram, now for the hard drives
<popey> i ordered 3 ubuntu t-shirts whilst drunk once
<popey> they were withdrawn from sale the next day
<popey> so i have 3 of 72 that were sold âº
<daftykins> drunken popey dancing on the table with a laptop going CLOTH ME CANONICAL!
<daftykins> sounds amusing :>
<hamitron> I was gonna make a rude remark about running out of material, when making your size ;)
<directhex> i wish i could afford a new pc :<
<hamitron> but na, better not
<directhex> just bought a new data drive, due to old one failing
 * Laney wants one of those intrepid t-shirts
<daftykins> directhex: what kit are you running?
<bigcalm> http://www.ebuyer.com/272944-seagate-500gb-3-5-sata-iii-6gb-s-barracuda-hard-drive-7200rpm-16mb-cache-st500dm002 - and - http://www.ebuyer.com/241715-wd-500gb-3-5-sata-6gb-s-caviar-blue-hard-drive-7200rpm-16mb-wd5000aakx
<directhex> i7 920, 5850
<daftykins> pff that's plenty new
<directhex> bigcalm, i just bought a deathstar!
<daftykins> i've a Q6600 back home
<popey> i should put them on ebay
<bigcalm> directhex: bwuhaha :)
<daftykins> directhex: i always thought you'd be a bad guy
<directhex> bigcalm, first time i've paid for an ibm^Whitachi disk
<Laney> you could... give me one for free :-)
<popey> yeah
<popey> not gonna happen
<directhex> daftykins, problem is, wifey has an i5 2500, and 6970
<Laney> :(
<Laney> :( :( :( :( :( :(
<bigcalm> As popey says, this should see me right enough :) I'm not out to fleece the company I work for
<popey> its my kids inheritance!
<hamitron> isn't the 6970, basically a 5870?
<popey> and now
<popey> bed
<daftykins> directhex: send 'er down the mines i say, earn for your toys :D
<popey> and fingers crossed a raspberry pi arrives this week
<daftykins> heh
<Laney> what's an i? :(
<daftykins> i'm off too, up early for builders again
<bigcalm> Yay, haven't used ebuyer for so long that they have forgotten my account :D
<daftykins> nn all \o
 * Laney has e6600 (H)
<bigcalm> Ah, wrong email
<bigcalm> Night popey & daftykins
<daftykins> (my lappy has an i5, just transcoded some SD content at zomgfast)
<daftykins> bigcalm: gl with your purchasing :>
<bigcalm> ta
<bigcalm> To buy new ram and 2 hdd, I was given a budget of 250 quid exVAT. Total order has come to 190.57 incVAT
 * bigcalm feels good about this
<zleap> bigcalm, nice
<ali1234> how high is the unity top panel?
<ali1234> 24 pixels :)
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-08
<daftykins> Not sure if any of you own or intend to own a Samsung smart TV anytime soon...
<daftykins> (They're really quite brilliant.)
<daftykins> But spare a thought for us Channel Islanders who are denied services because of where we live :)
<daftykins> http://www.techblo.gg/?p=203
<daftykins> No 4oD or Demand 5 for us! Yet if I VPN out via England, BAM! They suddenly appear
<daftykins> have a good week all :>
<sebsebseb>  
<ikonia> hello sebsebseb, not seen you active for a while
<SuperMatt> nice to see the first phone app to land on the desktop
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: oh?
<SuperMatt> friends
<AlanBell> !info friends raring
<lubotu3> friends (source: friends): Social integration with the desktop. In component main, is extra. Version 0.1.3daily13.04.05-0ubuntu1 (raring), package size 15 kB, installed size 80 kB
<AlanBell> installed the package, how do I run it?
<SuperMatt> uhm, I just searched and ran gwibber, but it came up with friends instead
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> just runs gwibber for me
<SuperMatt> oh, weird
<SuperMatt> wonder how I got it :/
<AlanBell> popey probably knows what is going on
<Nafallo> !info friends-app raring
<lubotu3> friends-app (source: friends-app): Aggregator for all your social network accounts. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.90.0bzr13.04.05-0ubuntu1 (raring), package size 58 kB, installed size 271 kB (Only available for amd64; i386; armhf)
<SuperMatt> well, I've turned it off for now. I prefer my things in browser
 * AlanBell runs friends app
<ali1234> is it a proper contacts integration?
<AlanBell> and gets a notification for every tweet mentioning me evar
<AlanBell> with unparsed HTML around links
<AlanBell> it just has a blank window so far, maybe when it finishes doing all the notifications it will have some content
<AlanBell> tweets are going back in time, now at last years BBQ and heading towards oggcamp
<AlanBell> SuperMatt: did it give you a functional timeline in the end when it stopped doing notifications?
<SuperMatt> yeah, it did
<AlanBell> ah, just restarted and I have a timeline now
<SuperMatt> though it wouldn't give me a timeline of just replies
<AlanBell> the buttons at the bottom look grey and disabled, but they are active
<SuperMatt> theming is something that's being worked on at the moment, I think
<ali1234> firefox 20
<ali1234> does it fix the crashing in 19?
<SuperMatt> I haven't had any crashes thus far
<ali1234> does it fix the problem with hangouts where the video freezes, then the browser freezes?
<SuperMatt> no idea
<popey> friends re-notifies me about stuff.. just got a load of happy birthday notifications from last week
<popey> (which I have already seen)
<DJones> Morning all
<AlanBell> friends isn't refreshing at all for me, it has all the mentions and a few tweets from half an hour ago
<AlanBell> and having a refresh button means it doesn't use the streaming API
<DJones> popey: I had that issue with friends over the weekend, it was notifying me of all direct messages since the year dot
<DJones> But wasn't notifying me of current things
<AlanBell> I filed some bugs https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/friends-app
<DJones> Bug 1166052 certainly affects me
<lubotu3> bug 1166052 in friends-app (Ubuntu) "notifies on startup of every tweet ever directed at you" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1166052
 * DJones ticks affects me
<AlanBell> I have no idea if that is a useful place to file those bugs
<DJones> Most of the time I'm using polly, but I wanted to go back to friends because the window size is more configurable than polly & fits my screen better
<DJones> I had my mum panicing over the weekend, she uses Win7 and has MSN to keep in touch with people but uses Pidgin rather than WLM, she wanted to know how to change to SKype and how it would affect her, no matter how many times I pointed out that the only people she has on MSN are my wife & myself who also use GTalk (and we'd stopped using MSN anyway) she still couldn't understand that Pidgin would carry on working the same as before
<kvarley> RemasterSys hasn't copied my user account over, can I manually put /home/username into /etc/skel to achieve this?
 * Laney gets spammed by ancient notifications
<Laney> s/notifications/mentions/
<popey> I only have facebook attached to friends so i can test the mobile version of the facebook app
<Laney> now i'm only seeing the most recent two tweets
<AlanBell> friends appears to have no menus, no options, no nothing I have no idea how to do anything with it other than look at it
<popey> can you drag up from the bottom
<Laney> you add the accounts in "online accounts"
<AlanBell> no, it has a bottom bar, with top, refresh post in it
<AlanBell> ah, online accounts, right
<Laney> hmm
<Laney> i pressed refresh and a couple of new tweets came up, clicked "two new tweets" and they went away again /o\
<AlanBell> refresh does nothing for me, I can drag down and it says release to refresh, but it doesn't
<Laney> ah, they were there - it just was scrolled down
<AlanBell> I sent a tweet and it received a few recent ones
<Laney> not sure facebook is working
<Laney> it's giving me a characters remaining countdown for a facebook status :)
<DJones> Just having a flash of inspiration, does friends show newest tweets at the top or the bottom of the window? If its bottom, that could be why I wasn't seeing any new tweets
<Laney> i'm not sure it scrolls up for you
<Laney> but they come at the top
<DJones> Logically, I'd expect them at the top, but was just a thought
<popey> there was a bug where it was ordered incorrectly
<popey> but i believe that's fixed now
 * Laney hopes it gets list support
<DJones> I'll have to give it another try when I get home
<Azelphur> had another somewhat funny go at my landlord this morning about his part in getting my neighbours kids taken away
<Laney> yeah, just seems the "1 new update" thing doesn't scroll up when you click it, so you have to do that yourself
<jacobw> Somewhat funny go?
<Azelphur> Told him he was disgusting and that those repair issues most definitely played a part in having their kids taken away, he said he'd told them to tidy up and that he'd have done the repairs if it was tidy, asked me if I'd been in there and if I would like to have kids living in there, I asked how the place being untidy stopped him from clearing the drains outside causing 2" deep sewage water to build up outside their front door, he had nothing to say.
<JamesTait> Happy International Day of the Roma! :-D
 * Laney is lulled to sleep by HMRC's hold music
<mungbean> bah, tried installing rainy on my machine, 10.04 is too old :(
<Laney> 24 minutes on hold so far
<SuperMatt> ouch
<Laney> wee
<mungbean> poo
<davmor2> Morning all
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fcu26n9e9m21vz/Rec_2013-04-08-%2811-00-16%29.3gp you know you've got a slumlord when...
<popey> he just walked away?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Azelphur> popey: yup
<Azelphur> no oven since I moved in back in November
<davmor2> morning brobostigon
<popey> â¹
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<mungbean> why do you stay there Azelphur ?
<Azelphur> mungbean: locked in to 6 month AST, as soon as it's over I'm out.
<mungbean> (couldn't watch 3gp on my pc),
<mungbean> but he's in breach of contract from other things u said
<popey> totem barfed it, mplayer played it here
<Azelphur> mungbean: yea, I'm not sure if that allows me to just leave or not, lawyer hasn't been answering the phone :(
<davmor2> vlc for the win
<Azelphur> popey: did you hear what he did yesterday?
<popey> no
<mungbean> Azelphur: citizens advice bureau?
<mungbean> did he break in an eat your easter eggs?
<Azelphur> mungbean: they say it's not what they do and put me onto shelter, who put me onto legal aid, who don't answer the phone :D
<mungbean> \o/
<mungbean> easter hols
<Azelphur> popey: my neighbours are in a much worse repair state than me, sewage flooding due to blocked drains, bed bug infestation since they moved in, mould in the walls thanks to the flooding
<Azelphur> they filed a health and safety claim like me, so in retaliation the landlord called child protective services and reported them for having kids in an unsafe environment (you know, the one that he caused by negligence) they had their kids taken away
<Azelphur> came home one night to the parents outside crying
<mungbean> wow
<Azelphur> yea, did what I could for them, I already had the local paper come out to do an article on the LL, so I called them and told them to come back and speak to that family too
<Azelphur> I want to do everything in my power to either stop him from trading altogether, or to make people aware of his activity so they can avoid
<Azelphur> I love their website, they have a chart which boasts how they only bothered to collect 7% of rent owed xD
<Laney> ninja carded by royal mail :(
<SuperMatt> /o\
<Azelphur> haha, I like that one, ninja carded
<mungbean> hp touchpad replacement battery arrvied today. hope it fixes my tablet problem :S
<SuperMatt> I was once carded by city link. I'd stayed in all day, sat in the living room. head the tink of the mailbox and ran straight to the door. The city link guy hadn't even bothered to take the package out of his van, and had literally just walked up to the door with the card
<SuperMatt> when I caught up with him, he actually had to spend ages in the back of the van to find the parcel
<Azelphur> haha, naughty
<BigRedS> That's the one thing that most puts me off the idea of a job where I'd work from home
<SuperMatt> he also deliberately parked quite a way from our door so we wouldn't see the van
<BigRedS> I'd suddenly join this group of people who have trouble having packages delivered
<SuperMatt> You know what I found out the other day?
<SuperMatt> Coop accepts parcels from Amazon
<SuperMatt> and my nearest is a mere 50m away
<brobostigon> now that useful, the nhs sending out reminders of appointments via sms,
<SuperMatt> I don't think they all do it, yet :(
<SuperMatt> though it's a step up from all the times I've not recieved letters about appointments
<brobostigon> SuperMatt: maybe they only do it for people with certain problems, like autism.
<kvarley> I have a virtualbox install, if I convert the .vdi to a .img file, write it to a usb drive and run grub-install on the usb drive - will it boot the system?
<SuperMatt> uhm...
<SuperMatt> I...
<popey> BigRedS: i dont get that too much but then I can see the van coming down the road
<SuperMatt> maybe?
<BigRedS> popey: I've never had it even when getting stuff delivered to home. But I wonder if I've just not used the 'right' couriers there
<brobostigon> SuperMatt: i have aspergers, and they know i tend to be very forgetful sometimes. so maybe as they know that, thats why they do it.?
<BigRedS> Actually, yeah, I'd just use that Amazon locker thing
 * BigRedS looks for work-from-home jobs
<Darael> brobostigon: It's standard where it happens; I got texts from the uni health centre recently without a diagnosis for anything similar.
<SuperMatt> I hear there are a number of wfh jobs at canonical
<Darael> (Although I *later* got a preliminary diagnosis for aspergers...)
<brobostigon> Darael: ah, i see. that makes sense.
<Azelphur> Darael: welcome to the cool club ;)
<brobostigon> first time they have done it, so was a suprise.
<Laney> i can't think what i ordered
<SuperMatt> obviously not important then
<Laney> It was too large for the letter box apparently ... If I end up travelling all the way to the office for a catalogue :|
 * Laney tries online redelivery
<mungbean> SuperMatt: did you report the guy for the parcel in van trick?
<mungbean> i wonder how much he does that, and whats the point? must hate his job
<Laney> targets
<mungbean> i wonder enjoy giving parcels to happy geeks
<mungbean> ^wonder^would
<SuperMatt> mungbean: naw, it was aaaages ago
<SuperMatt> I'd do it today though
<SuperMatt> I was like 16
<popey> i would imagine he has sufficient non-deliveries to make it more time efficient to walk to the door, ring the bell and go back to the van ready to drive away
<mungbean> but what satisfaction is there? the next guy has to deliver the parcel
<mungbean> and creates loads of extra work for everyone
<SuperMatt> indeed
<mungbean> a carrer in public sector awaits
<SuperMatt> I don't understand not doing your job so others have to pick up the slack
<SuperMatt> all it does is gives the company a bad name and eventually gets you fired
<popey> i suspect it creates extra work on a nominal number of occasions
<mungbean> popey: sounds like the guy probably made a habit of it
<mungbean> if he's that blatant
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: surely you don't deliver the parcel, get it to the depot and then the recipient will go there to pick it up?
<SuperMatt> not always
<Laney> or they arrange it for a day when they will be in, so you get a fairly guaranteed delivery out of it
<SuperMatt> for a lot of people in central london, they just don't have the means of transport to get to most depots
<BigRedS> I've in the past ordered something for delivery to an address that I knew would be unoccupied so that I could get it from the depot the next day
<SuperMatt> Laney: except for the fact that you were already in the first time they didn't deliever ;)
<Laney> they didn't know that
<SuperMatt> no, but they shouldn't be assuming it in the first place
<Laney> from their POV redeliveries are more likely to be successful
<SuperMatt> that you wouldn't be in, that is
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: I'd have thought that most of the people who live in central london have a work address they could get stuff delivered to
<Laney> i'm trying to guess why it might be happening as it is
<mungbean> no its pure work-dodging laziness
<BigRedS> [citation needed]
<BigRedS> :)
<SuperMatt> what I tend to do these days is call up on the morning I'm getting something delievered and confirm that I'm in. That message gets related to the courier so they can't claim I'm not in
<SuperMatt> *relayed
<Laney> i would assume that it's driven by difficult targets
<mungbean> get a neighbour you can trust, then write "leave with neighbour" on all deliveries
<Laney> finish your round in X hours that can't be done if you wait around for each person not to be in
<SuperMatt> well now coop accepts amazon delieveries, all my stuff is going there
<mungbean> really?
<SuperMatt> yup
<mungbean> my wife is a mum-at-home so no need
<mungbean> but handy
<mungbean> also get stuff delivered to work if necessary
<mungbean> mostly the radioactive stuff
<SuperMatt> http://www.co-operativefood.co.uk/whats-hot/Amazon-Lockers/
<BigRedS> mungbean: if necessary? Why wouldn't that be the default?
<mungbean> because my wife is at home
<SuperMatt> I always thought my local pub, somewhere that I actually talk to the staff, would be a good place to get stuff delievered
<mungbean> and i got a heavy book and a tablet battery delivered today
<BigRedS> yeah, but if you miss any deliveries at all at home surely it's worthwhile just getting it sent to work?
<mungbean> can't use them until i'm home
<BigRedS> ah, unless you're commute isn't powered by engines
<mungbean> we don't miss any at home
<BigRedS> Oh
<SuperMatt> oh dang it
<SuperMatt> my local coop *doesn't* offer the locker service :(
<SuperMatt> although there is one *relatively* close
<mungbean> how much space does ubuntu server 12.04 need?
<mungbean> for a basic vm
<Darael> mungbean: Three unitless Sergeis.
<mungbean> talking of sergeis , i need to claim my meerkat
<Darael> More seriously, it depends on the meaning of "a basic VM".
<mungbean> standard ubuntu server install
<mungbean> minimin space requirements
<davmor2> mungbean: how long is a piece of string, the base install is pretty small but if you add any services and a db it will grow and grow
<mungbean> yeah, just gonna be my rainy server
<mungbean> but i have thick provisioned disk on a limited sapce
<mungbean> wondering if 10gb or 15gb
<davmor2> mungbean: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements
<Darael> mungbean: The page linked above recommends a minimum of 1GB for a server install.
<Darael> mungbean: 10GB should be plenty if it's not *doing* much.
<mungbean> i chose 15gb , i might end of using it more
<mungbean> ta
<davmor2> mungbean: you know there is this wonderful thing called google it has most of the answers if you type them in ;)
<Darael> davmor2: WITCHCRAFT!
<Myrtti> Tesco's Finest rye cobbler â¥ almost like San Francisco sourdough
 * Laney sees Touch now has a calculator app
 * Laney writes 58008
 * Laney sniggers
<popey> ERROR: powertemp.rrd: illegal attempt to update using time 1365420386 when last update time is 1365420592 (minimum one second step)
<popey> well thats odd
<popey> Laney: is yours still working?
<popey> wonder if it doesn't like the time change, but I'd have expected failure a week ago
<popey> perhaps ntp just fiddled the time
<Laney> when did it stop?
<Laney> http://home.orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/ seems alright to me
<popey> just a few minutes ago
<popey> very suspicious
<popey> i logged in, installed juju, lxc and a few other bits and suddenly got that
<Laney> your time has gone backwards, i guess that's the problem
<Laney> i suspect ntp corrected it
<popey> yeah
 * popey waited until 1365420592 passed
<popey> its fine now
<popey> never seen it do that before, although it could conceivably have done it when I'm not looking!
 * Laney was amazed that the panda running those graphs stayed up for his whole two week holiday
<Laney> (just you watch it go down now)
<Laney> also that his dodgy C program which drives rrdtool hasn't crashed
 * Laney sets up a subscribe & save for tea \o/
 * DJones watches the breaking news that Baroness Thatcher has passed away. 
<popey> http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/ confirmed
<Laney> very tasteful
<popey> I personally found that less useful than the single use site which reminded me to buy a snow shovel
<MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.unicodesnowmanforyou.com/
<popey> that also is a good one
<kvarley> Haha
<neuro> popey: having to hear her voice repeatedly in the obit package being played out on bbc's one o'clock news is pretty grating
<BigRedS> There's an alarmingly large number of facebook likes on that page
<SuperMatt> people can be cruel
<davmor2> SuperMatt: There is a lot of Hate for Mrs T, but equally there is as much Love.  Personally I'm in the hate group but am still sorry that she died :)
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> I am wondering why I can't see this on my mom's wishlist http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00071DOU0
<neuro> SuperMatt: she evoked tremendously strong feelings
<popey> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<popey> \o/
<brobostigon> :)
<neuro> when someone steals your school milk, i believe that transcends "politics".
<neuro> I want my milk back! :)
<neuro> i wonder if there's a ##milk
<davmor2> popey: Blame DJones he started it then blame yourself for continuing it :P then work down the rest of the list :)
<neuro> hehe
<DJones> davmor2: I'd don't accept any blame, I didn't mention politics
<neuro> if sabdfl ever stands for office somewhere, we're pooched! :)
<SuperMatt> I dunno, I think he'd be quite liberal, and all for not taxing disabled people for the gaul of having a spare room in a house that they were assigned
<SuperMatt> but then one day we'd wake up and we'll all be driving on the right
<neuro> yeah, but ... politics ;)
<neuro> the right side is the left side!
<neuro> (talking about roads, not politics)
<SuperMatt> actually, left is indeed the better side to drive on
<SuperMatt> more people are "right eyed" which means assessing oncoming traffic is "easier" when driving on the left
<neuro> as a right handed smoker, i have to agree
<SuperMatt> *most
<SuperMatt> also, many people mount bikes and horses from the left, which means you're facing the right way when you start riding
<SuperMatt> which is why we started driving on the left in the first place
<SuperMatt> everyone else is just silly
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> QUESTION: Five minutes have past, and I am  captious as to why my query has not been answered in the usu. way :: :|   http://yhoo.it/XnIWDy
<neuro> wat?
<popey> also
<popey> wat?
<Myrtti> durrr
<G|Linuxusrmyriad> My Mother's wishlist is not publishing correctly.
<Myrtti> oh it's redtape
<ali1234> hurrr
<popey> You asked a question and linked to a book, not the wishlist in question, then link to a random youtube Q&A..?
<popey> although your first thing was actually a statement, not a question
<popey> followed by another "not a question"
<redtape|renegade> leaves.
<neuro> ummm
<neuro> confused
<Myrtti> welcome to the club
<neuro> i wonder about that boy sometimes
<Myrtti> popey: http://www.lastucase.com/ time to get a case for the iphone? :-P
<popey> pretty!
<Myrtti> ah man I forgot pulseaudio crashed last night
<popey> i have a bumper on it at the moment
<Myrtti> no audio for the Witch is Dead video
<neuro> ooh
<neuro> definitely a decorative rather than protective case
<Myrtti> well, yes.
<neuro> i can't be bothered with cases usually, makes it annoying to dock
<Myrtti> unless you consider it protecting from some scratches
<popey> indeed, thats the problem i have
<popey> with the bumper on, none of my accessories work with it
<neuro> not sure if i dig the ipad or macbook sticky things
<Myrtti> but anyway, a) Finnish b) "Purchase a 'Lastu product, and support sustainability with us! We pledge 5 euros towards tree planting for each product we sell - greening Africa together, one tree at a time."
<neuro> ooh
<neuro> nice
<mungbean> evernote : what do you get for free, what do u pay for?
<neuro> mungbean: https://evernote.com/premium/
<mungbean> offline notebooks
<Myrtti> I should continue learning ruby so I'd have some chance of programming my own apps since nobody ever seems to to the ones I want
<neuro> what apps do you want?
<popey> i used evernote for a while
<popey> can't recall what annoyed me about it now
<mungbean> is the message format weird or anythin?
<popey> message?
<mungbean> note
<neuro> it's a document store
<neuro> notes are "rich text"
<popey> i dont think you "see" that
<mungbean> are the notes stored in readable text
<neuro> but yeah it's not exposed as a filesystem
<popey> readble with their client
<mungbean> ah, because its an online client
<mungbean> gonna spin up a rainy server for continuation of tomboy then
<neuro> web or native app
<popey> well no, the notes are local
<popey> and synced to the cloud
<popey> much like tomboy actually
<neuro> yup, that
<neuro> so wherever you can get a client, you can see and organise your stuff
<popey> hmm, load average 41 on my microserver
<popey> less than ideal
<neuro> depends what it's doing
<neuro> iowait or just raw load?
<popey> "Lots"
<popey> lots of IO wait actually
<neuro> i've seen load avg in the thousands before but the server still responds
<mungbean> must have been a reasonably compelling reason to stop using it though popey
<popey> yeah, its responsive enough, just "quite busy" :D
<popey> 12 btrfs scrub processes âº
<neuro> oof
<mungbean> there's a chrome & android app called scratchpad - anyone used? syncs with google drive
<neuro> it's a google product, i wouldn't trust it to last :)
<mungbean> i notice the winky ;) but its using google drive, not a google product
<mungbean> lasted longer than u1 sync :(
<neuro> um
<neuro> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/scratchpad/kjebfhglflhjjjiceimfkgicifkhjlnm?hl=en
<neuro> "By Google"
<mungbean> oh
<mungbean> Google Stopping Development of âScratchpadâ Note Taking App
<neuro> rofl!!
<mungbean> new version released feb 2013 though
<mungbean> maybe they resumed
<popey> mungbean has the kiss of death to all apps
 * mungbean cries
<mungbean> rainy it is
<mungbean> steering away from evernote
<mungbean> since i have my own public server to play with,
<mungbean> a little worried about security of rainy though
<popey> ssh sync isn't bad
<mungbean> i thought it had fundamental flaw the same as file sync
<popey> at least it's a known security method
<mungbean> since it uses sshfs
<mungbean> hence similar to just using ubuntuone/dropbox to do file sync
<popey> not really
<mungbean> happy to be corrected.
<popey> ssh sync doesn't try to be clever with conflicts like dropbox/u1 do
<popey> so is more of a known quantity
<mungbean> hence avoids the problem u had with file sync?
<popey> one of the issues
<mungbean> ssh sync needs passwordless ssh key setup?
<popey> it needs ssh key
<mungbean> don't think this will work with tomdroid app though
<popey> it wont
<popey> tomdroid doesn't support ssh sync
<mungbean> supports rainy now
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<SuperMatt> noon
<bigcalm> Somewhat after
<mungbean> sshfs sync seemed to go quite smoothly
<mungbean> goodbye tomdroid :(
<mungbean> maybe i can write a script to copy notes to sd card when i connect my phone
<popey> or port the ssh sync stuff to tomdroid ? :D
<mungbean> i don't have teh skillz anymore
<mungbean> they atrophied and withered
<SuperMatt> I've been flexing my pythong muscles recently
<mungbean> tomdroid is readonly so i could get my android to sync a dropbox folder regularly
<mungbean> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ttxapps.dropsync&hl=en
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: with email notifications?
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: oh yes!
<SuperMatt> one sec...
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: http://www.supermatt.net/?attachment_id=4856
<SuperMatt> ignore the fact that thunderbird is open, I was just ensuring I had some unread emails to report on
<popey> wow look at you with no folders
<SuperMatt> I just whack everything in to archives
<SuperMatt> I only have to press a
<SuperMatt> and then get thunderbird to cache it all
<ali1234> has anyone tried geary?
<popey> ya
<DJones> Yep
<ali1234> i was surprised that it actually handles gmail features
<ali1234> like it actually supports labels and archiving properly
<SuperMatt> I've tried it, and I've pledged, but it's not quite up to the level I'd like it to be
<SuperMatt> but I'm waiting, and hopinh
<SuperMatt> *hoping
<ali1234> yeah it doesn't really feel finished
<ali1234> it's already massively better than thunderbird though
<SuperMatt> it what way?
<ali1234> (14:29:13) ali1234: like it actually supports labels and archiving properly
<SuperMatt> well, it only supports archiving for gmail properly
<SuperMatt> I pressed the archieve button on my imap server, and the email just vanished
<ali1234> oh it does that on gmail too
<ali1234> (14:29:35) ali1234: yeah it doesn't really feel finished
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I know it'll be great
<ali1234> it has an archive button. it doesn't work properly yet, but at least it is there
<SuperMatt> it's just that thunderbird matches my work flow better, currently
<ali1234> i also got an email stuck
<ali1234> click archive, nothing happens
<ali1234> sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure yorba are going to make their target
<ali1234> it doesn't fully thread conversations either, but again, it does a much better job than thunderbird
<SuperMatt> maybe they should have set their goal a little lower
<ali1234> it doesn't use reply-to: header at all
<ali1234> it just threads based on subject
<ali1234> if the subject is blank it does not thread at all
<ali1234> (people send me emails with no subject all the time)
<ali1234> but again, still better than thnderbird which does not thread anything, ever
<SuperMatt> I do miss gmail's threads, but I don't get enough emails to care so much :P
<popey> thunderbird threads fine here
<neuro> has threaded fine for me for years
<mgdm> yeah, same here
<mgdm> I've been using it since before it was called Thunderbird
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: just seen the screenshot. What am I looking for here?
<SuperMatt> that I've got some rudimentary functionality going
<SuperMatt> check the top right
<SuperMatt> that's not been called by thunderbird, it's been done by my main.py
<bigcalm> Aha, OSD :)
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: super
<SuperMatt> Should have got with "Matt: Super"
 * bigcalm steps away from facebook for the rest of the day
<SuperMatt> I could send it over in its current state, and you can run it via a cron job
<SuperMatt> or I could start work on daemon mode, and parsing config from a json file
<bigcalm> What does it look at?
<SuperMatt> at the moment it just has my account details hard coded
<SuperMatt> though it's about 10 minutes work to accept from a json file or from command line arguments
<SuperMatt> or I could read up about using gnome keyring
<SuperMatt> take your pic ;)
<bigcalm> I mean is it gmail specific or will it work with other IMAP servers?
<SuperMatt> at the moment it's only imap with ssl
<SuperMatt> so gmail will work
<bigcalm> And MS Outlook
<bigcalm> Which is what my work email is
<SuperMatt> well, if your outlook points to an imap server, sure
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: outlook is the service name now, not just the client
<SuperMatt> oh funky
<SuperMatt> ah, you mean outlook.com
<bigcalm> Yus
<SuperMatt> well, it should work
<bigcalm> Well, in my case Office 365 and microsoftonline.com
<SuperMatt> I can test it for you
<SuperMatt> I should have an account
<bigcalm> IMAP should be IMAP and just work :)
<SuperMatt> yeah, but I haven't configure imap without ssl yet
<bigcalm> Did your system go *bing* when new mail arrived?
<SuperMatt> it's not too difficult, I just need to extend the class I already have
<SuperMatt> geez, how do I still get emails to my hotmail account from bloomin laplink!
<SuperMatt> aren't they dead yet?
<SuperMatt> I swear I only used them for communicating over com port
<bigcalm> Oop, there goes the hearing in my left ear
<bigcalm> Colds suck
<SuperMatt> well now, the outlook.com interface is pretty good
<bigcalm> Yes, it's a nice web mail interface
<bigcalm> A json config would be a fine start :)
<SuperMatt> hmmm... I can't find any imap settings for outlook.com
<bigcalm> Mail -> Options -> Settings for POP, IMAP and SMTP access...
<bigcalm> That's on my Office 365 account though
<SuperMatt> yeah, I don't have 365 :/
<bigcalm> It'll be something like pod51017.outlook.com
<SuperMatt> hmm
<SuperMatt> I don't think I can get a free account
<SuperMatt> well, how about this: would you like to test it for me?
<bigcalm> Happy to :)
<SuperMatt> can I email it to you?
<bigcalm> Oh bother. When did I take that lemsip? It's going to trouble me for the next 4 hours
<bigcalm> There ya go :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: if you take a screenshot of the entire desktop does it snapshot the screen you are on or all three?
<bigcalm> davmor2: all three. I had to crop the image I put on G+
<davmor2> bigcalm: nice I wasn't sure how it handled multimonitor screenshots hence the question :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: due to the central screen rotation, the extra space is black on the two other screens in the screenshot
<bigcalm> ACK!
<bigcalm> Sneezed and my glasses shot off my face
<davmor2> haha
<bigcalm> I'm really surprised I've managed to get so far into the year without a cold
<bigcalm> Now I understand why the elder generation put tethers on their glasses
<davmor2> bigcalm: oh I thought it was the fact they couldn't bend to pick them back up off the floor :)
<zleap> bigcalm, well i have usb sticks here with  lanyards,
<bigcalm> zleap: does that mean you are tethered to the machine? :)
<zleap> bigcalm, no
<zleap> i was just commenting that some have lanyards,  it is no different to having keys that clip to belts etc
<zleap> well the bit on trousers that the belt goes in to
<dwatkins> I have a cold, first of the year.
 * bigcalm blames dwatkins for his cold then
<dwatkins> I have cycling glasses that have a rubberised thing that goes around my head, so they don't come off.
<dwatkins> bigcalm: it's a southern cold, I think I got it visiting friends and relations down south. I've probably infected half of Edinburgh since I got back.
<dwatkins> transmission via IRC would be quite impressive for a cold virus...
<bigcalm> I could try and blame davmor2 as I saw him on Thursday
<dwatkins> That might be a little more plausible ;)
<bigcalm> But I'm thinking it was possibly something I picked up in the Jewellery Quarter on Saturday
<davmor2> bigcalm: I've not had a cold this year so you can chuff off :P
<bigcalm> :P
<Myrtti> I kinda want a tether thing for my glasses because when I put my glasses on my forehead, I inevitably tangle my hair on/in them
<Myrtti> I just don't seem to find good ones
<Myrtti> not that I've looked too much
<bigcalm> Myrtti: get magnetic glasses like Stephen Fry (as seen at Oggcamp)
<Myrtti> that would be good if I'd use reading glasses where I'd take them off often
<bigcalm> The only time I take my glasses of is when I need to leave my office for some reason. Haven't lost them yet *fingers crossed*
<mungbean> ssh sync with tomby is super quick now :D
<andysucksatubunt> Hey
<andysucksatubunt> Is there anyone available to help me with a Ubuntu Query
<Myrtti> difficult to know if you don't actually ask the question first
<andysucksatubunt> fair point.
<andysucksatubunt> I have dual boot windows and ubuntu i have stupidly some how managed to get malware on my windows boot. I want to install a rescue disc from AVG to USB but i am unable to run teh setup.sh file
<popey> probably not executable
<andysucksatubunt> Ive gone into the properties and allowed it to run as a application
<popey> did the setup.sh file come from the AVG website?
<andysucksatubunt> yes
<popey> so its in your "Downloads" folder?
<andysucksatubunt> currently extracted there yes
<popey> what happens when you try and run it?
<popey> like..
<popey> cd ~/Downloads
<andysucksatubunt> i gives me optiosn tpo open terman view cancel or run
<popey> ./setup.sh
<andysucksatubunt> but nothign happens
<popey> I'd do it in a terminal, press CTRL+ALT+T then... cd ~/Downloads
<popey> then ./setup.sh
<andysucksatubunt> and ive read that popey but what do u mean i i am very new t unbuntu and i wis i knew more so i could delete windows from my life
<andysucksatubunt> hmm seem a few keys are sticking to... awesome..
<andysucksatubunt> ok sec
 * popey squints
<andysucksatubunt> telling me theres no such file there
<popey> when you typed cd ~/Downloads, did the prompt change in the terminal?
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~/Downloads$
<andysucksatubunt> yes to dowloands
<popey> to look a bit like that
<popey> ok, good
<andysucksatubunt> downloads*
<andysucksatubunt> but when i type /setup.sh
<andysucksatubunt> it said no such file etc
<popey> you missed the full stop in front
<popey> ./setup.sh
<andysucksatubunt> ffs ok god im poop
<popey> :D
<popey> easily done
<popey> it's only 4 or so pixels
<andysucksatubunt> says the same
<andysucksatubunt> the downlaod rea dme said i needed to have dialog libraies installed
<andysucksatubunt> if that means anything
<andysucksatubunt> ive been google and forum read until i had the idea to find this place
<dwatkins> is the file there, andysucksatubunt? do an 'ls'
<andysucksatubunt> haha no
<Nafallo> hrm
<Nafallo> anyone got a BCM970015 and able to tell how well it runs on Quantal or Raring? :-)
<MartijnVdS> BCM970015?
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: what does that do?
<andysucksatubunt> s>it ok to chat here?
<Nafallo> 1080p on a netbook ;-)
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: ah, as long as there are drivers for it.. I guess
<Nafallo> looks like it's in the kernel.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: it appears to be a video accelerator: http://www.amazon.com/BCM970015-Broadcom-Hardware-Decoder-Accelerator/dp/B0050QJUP0
<Nafallo> and there is a firmware package.
<dwatkins> andysucksatubunt: we do ;)
<dwatkins> although we tend to stick to vaguely linux-related discussions mostly
<Nafallo> but then, the gstreamer plugin is at 0.10 and I can't figure out how the mplayer support is supposed to work :-)
<andysucksatubunt> ive checked it finds the folder the setup.sh is in
<andysucksatubunt> but when i type the ./setup.sh when its in the downloads it still tells me no such file excists
<Darael> andysucksatubunt, dwatkins:  *Very* vaguely, sometimes...
<dwatkins> andysucksatubunt: is the file in that directory, or a subdirectory? perhaps it was extracted from an archive.
<MartijnVdS> what do you need setup.sh for?
<andysucksatubunt> it iwas a zip folder ive extracted
<MartijnVdS> isn't it packaged?
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: of what?
<MartijnVdS> !packages
<lubotu3> You can browse and search for Ubuntu packages using !Synaptic, !KPackageKit, !Adept, "apt-cache search <keywords or regex>", or online at http://packages.ubuntu.com - Ubuntu has about 30000 packages available, so please *search* for an official package before installing things in awkward ways!
<dwatkins> so 'cd' into the directory it's in, as indicated by 'ls'
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: this is for AVG
<andysucksatubunt> a AVG virus boot to install a rescue disc to USB
<MartijnVdS> uh?
<andysucksatubunt> i need to run the setup.sh to install it to a USB stick
<Nafallo> right. no one knows about crystal hd? ;-)
<andysucksatubunt> i have windows and ubuntu dual boot and somehow im guessign was the GF i have malware that basically fucks my windows (wouldnt care but i have files there) and i need access so i need an rescue disc to run from boot to remove it
<andysucksatubunt> if that makes sense...
<dwatkins> please keep your language family-friendly, andysucksatubunt
<andysucksatubunt> my apologise
<andysucksatubunt> wont happen again
<andysucksatubunt> I can get the termial into the downloads but its just refuses to see the setup.sh
<andysucksatubunt> terminal*
<dwatkins> andysucksatubunt: you're probably not in the correct directory
<dwatkins> as I said, find out what the subdirectory is called that it extracted to, then move into it with 'cd nameofdirectory'
<andysucksatubunt> i thought that so i went into the properties of the folder with teh setup.sh and tried that and it confirms the directory
<andysucksatubunt> ok sec ill see if that works
<popey> it could be that it's not setup.sh which is reporting the error but something it later calls
<andysucksatubunt> really frustrates me because i wish i was so much better with linux and i just get frustrated and stop trying
<andysucksatubunt> when i try cd the directory in the downloads it says it doesnt excist
<andysucksatubunt> ~/Downloads$ cd ~/avg_arl_ffi_all_120_120823a5411
<popey> its case sensitive
<andysucksatubunt> then it says
<popey> no, wait
<popey> ~ means /home/andy
<popey> (assuming that's your name)
<popey> so ~/Downloads is /home/andy/Downloads
<andysucksatubunt> *face palm*
<popey> ~/avg_arl_ffi_all_120_120823a5411 means /home/andy/avg_arl_ffi_all_120_120823a5411
<popey> so you probably want to cd ~/Downloads
<popey> then cd avg_arl_ffi_all_120_120823a5411
<popey> or just cd avg   and then press the Tab key to autocomplete
<andysucksatubunt> i hope this isnt making u to annoyed at how stupid one human being can be
<Darael> Uninformed and unused to bash is not the same as stupid.
<andysucksatubunt> ok tells me to try and run as root
<Darael> All will come in time.
<andysucksatubunt> with an error of course
<andysucksatubunt> How would one Andy go about doing that?
<popey> ok
<popey> sudo ./setup.sh
<andysucksatubunt> *Copy pastes*
<andysucksatubunt> udo: unable to change to sudoers gid: Operation not permitted sudo: setresuid() [0, 0, 0] -> [114, -1, -1]: Operation not permitted
<popey> uhhhh
<popey> are you logged in as you or as a guest account?
<andysucksatubunt> nope but i can try and relog i had ubuntu then i installed gnome i can put it back to basic and come back if that makes any difference?
<popey> I'm kinda lost.
<andysucksatubunt> ok popey i will brb
<andysucksatubunt> and btw i really super appricate all this help
<popey> what version of ubuntu is this?
<popey> is it like mega old?
<popey> the following command will give you a version number:-
<popey> lsb_release -a
<andysucksatubunt> Distributor ID:	Ubuntu Description:	Ubuntu 12.04.1 LTS Release:	12.04 Codename:	precise
<popey> hmm
<andysucksatubunt> ive run uodate manager and doesnt say anything
<andysucksatubunt> update*
<popey> I don't understand why sudo fails
<dwatkins> do you have another login account, andysucksatubunt?
<dwatkins> that one doesn't have sudo priviliges.
<popey> need to go and put the kids to bed, sorry
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: can you paste the output of the 'id' command?
<MartijnVdS> (that should clear some things up :))
<dwatkins> good call, MartijnVdS
<andysucksatubunt> Andy-rSffvo@ubuntu:~/Downloads/avg_arl_ffi_all_120_120823a5411$ ./setup.sh ERROR: Try to run this as root. Andy-rSffvo@ubuntu:~/Downloads/avg_arl_ffi_all_120_120823a5411$ ./setup.sh ERROR: Try to run this as root. Andy-rSffvo@ubuntu:~/Downloads/avg_arl_ffi_all_120_120823a5411$ sudo ./setup.shsudo: unable to change to sudoers gid: Operation not permitted sudo: setresuid() [0, 0, 0] -> [114, -1, -1]: Operation not permitte
<andysucksatubunt> help at all?
<andysucksatubunt> sec
<andysucksatubunt> uid=114(Andy-rSffvo) gid=125(Andy-rSffvo) groups=125(Andy-rSffvo)
<andysucksatubunt> that what u ment right?
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: it is.. but why are you in that user/group?
<MartijnVdS> those are system-reserved..
<MartijnVdS> (not for normal users)
<SuperMatt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J4QPz52Sfo well worth watching
<andysucksatubunt> wish i knew
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: How did you log in?
<andysucksatubunt> should i double check this is the admin user? would that effect it
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: it's not, "id" just told us :)
<andysucksatubunt> blah
<andysucksatubunt> what numbers would i expect to see the admin then?
<andysucksatubunt> i have 3 users dont remember why so i can run teh id command and find teh correct one before i log here to bother u awesome people
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: this might be the "guest" login, I don't know.. how did you create it?
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: the admin user tends to have uid 1000, but that's not required (it can all be changed)
<MartijnVdS> but if you changed it.. you'd know
<andysucksatubunt> orginally i downlaoded teh ubuntu exe on my windows desktop and installed
<andysucksatubunt> but i setup users and i cant remember why
<andysucksatubunt> so ill do teh ID check and relog here once ive found it
<andysucksatubunt> Could be me under Andrew instead of andy.. sorry to be so usless
<andysucksatubunt> ive not used this netboot in ages that why
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: you could try this (don't paste the output here though)
<andysucksatubunt> was on a mac as my GF had a new one and wel the HD hd cable went so i came back to my old backup and then she botched this so im stcuk fixing it
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: tail /etc/passwd
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: it lists the last accounts in the password file.. usually the ones you created are in that :)
<MartijnVdS> andysucksatubunt: go for the ones with id 1000 or higher
<andysucksatubunt> ok i will brb if thats ok?
<MartijnVdS> sure
<andysucksatubunt> i will do that find one and relog
<andysucksatubunt> thanks and brb
<andysucks> right im back
<andysucks> not sure how but i have two Andy accounts
<andysucks> that was weird
<andysucks> ill need to re download the setup.sh etc
<andysucks> so ill eat while that happens if thats ok Popey and fellow helpers and eat
<andysucks> back
<dwatkins> 'ls' is your friend, andysucks
<andysucks> ye seems so
<andysucks> although the extracting of the file has frozen
<ali1234> what are you trying to do exactly?
<andysucks> run a setup.sh but it seems somehow i was in a guest user and commands wouldnt work
<ali1234> what's the url of setup.sh?
<andysucks> checked with id im in a 1000 now
<ali1234> https://share.avg.com/arl/
<ali1234> is it that?
<andysucks> just need to extract and see if the advice given a few minutes ago works
<andysucks> no matey its a REscue scan disc to scan my pc on boot to install it on a USB
<ali1234> that is what that is
<andysucks> ok well i have the zip file in my downloads
<andysucks> its just umm not un zipping
<MartijnVdS> maybe it is, but you should wait a bit longer?
<magpie> how are you trying to unzip it?
<andysucks> right clik extract here
<ali1234> 5411 is out of date. just fyi
<ali1234> https://share.avg.com/arl/release/avg_arl_ffi_all_120_120823a5688.zip is the latest release
<ali1234> there is also an iso version that you can just download and burn
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: that doesn't work if you have <1G RAM
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: tried that last month :|
<magpie> what do you want this for ?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: (ended up plugging 4G in that machine, and re-installing Windows)
<andysucks> Im on a netbook i have no cdrom
<andysucks> so needs be USB
<magpie> unetbootin is your friend
<andysucks> thanks for update link alil234
<andysucks> whats unetbootin?
<ali1234> ./setup.sh: line 113: /1024: syntax error: operand expected (error token is "/1024")
<ali1234> lol, even with all the right dependencies, it doesn't work
<ali1234> this probably won't work with unetbootin
<magpie> i use unetbootin whenever i need to get files off my netbook after some crisis
<andysucks> i will try the directory thing to see if it will run now once i have the most up to date etc
<andysucks> hmm i will look into it magpie <3
<magpie> it's great way to save files before a reinstall
<ali1234> hmm it does this awk '/^.* '$dev'$/{print $3}' /proc/partitions
<magpie> you can put some light distro on it
<ali1234> but that outputs nothing
<andysucks> well after finding this place i plan to after fixing my windows issue banish it and install pure ubuntu
<magpie> what's your windows issue?
<dwatkins> What do you need to do to the windows install, andysucks? copy data off it?
<andysucks> Malware take over GF use it last
<magpie> you can just grab ur files off with the usb boot
<davmor2> Man you don't appreciate how fast Raring is till you compare side by side with precise OMG it's fast
<magpie> put them onto a hard disk and then set install over windows
<dwatkins> andysucks: in that case shouldn't she be fixing it?
<andysucks> Some BS bla bla pay or police nonsense and takes over my pc cant even safemode boot it makes that blurry
<andysucks> she can barley turn this thing on matey
<andysucks> and worst is... its my netbook
<dwatkins> that's no excuse. when I started using computers, I could barely read ;) ... I was six.
<magpie> don't worry
<magpie> listen
<magpie> get a usb
<ali1234> but when you were 6 you did not have internet hackers trying to extort money from you
<magpie> format it to fat 32
<magpie> then download lubuntu or gnome if you want i'd say it's too bulky for a netbook tho
<andysucks> ye i need something light and user friendly to start
<magpie> run unetbootin with your disk image of the distro
<magpie> restart your computer and press f12 or whatever gets you into bios
<magpie> and set bios to boot into usb
<magpie> restarrt
<magpie> then option will be "try without installing"
<magpie> pick this
<dwatkins> isn't andysucks already running Ubuntu?
<magpie> "then plug spare hard drive into (hopefully you have another usb socket)
<magpie> take all files off
<magpie> reboot
<magpie> pick open to clean install
<magpie> nice new os
<magpie> saved files
<magpie> no bother
<dwatkins> make sure to virus and malware scan the USB disk, of course
<andysucks> I have ubuntu and windows on my netbook
<andysucks> im on ubuntu now
<magpie> meh dwatkins
<andysucks> because the window partiton is f'ed
<magpie> the virus can't hurt just on a usb
<magpie> ur better off saving the lot and going through it later
<dwatkins> it might be in a .doc or somehing
<magpie> chances are it's a windows virus anyway
<dwatkins> yeah, magpie that's what I mean, check it later
<magpie> aye
<magpie> don't worry andysucks
<andysucks> its only because i startted another language after moving country that i care or id format and put pure linux on
<andysucks> i have a document with my notes
<andysucks> id like to get
<andysucks> par that id happily wipe it now
<magpie> once you know how to use the try without installing on your usb you will not have problems saving files anymore
<magpie> i have one handy for whenever I want
<magpie> your netbook is going to be so much faster
<magpie> i reccomended 32bit lubuntu 12.04
<magpie> you can get your documents off before you wipe it though
<magpie> you won't lose them if you hit "try without installing"
<magpie> it will bring you into a temporary screen and from there yo will see your windows folder and you can drag and drop the lot into a spare HD
<magpie> I think maybe he was panicking
<andysucks> seems my netbook isnt powerful enough
<andysucks> it keeps freezing
<andysucks> Sorry magpie missed what you said
<andysucks> Can you recommend a decent light version on Linux for a netbook?
<magpie> lubuntu 12.04 32 bit
<andysucks> Any offical websites i can download from?
<magpie> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/12.04/release/
<magpie> it says desktop but don't worry it's very light
<magpie> you may need to configure the trackpad click a bit
<magpie> once you know how to use the try without installing on your usb you will not have problems saving files anymore
<magpie>  i have one handy for whenever I want
<magpie>  your netbook is going to be so much faster
<magpie>  i reccomended 32bit lubuntu 12.04
<magpie>  you can get your documents off before you wipe it though
<magpie>  you won't lose them if you hit "try without installing"
<magpie>  it will bring you into a temporary screen and from there yo will see your windows folder and you can drag and drop the lot into a spare HD
<magpie> jjust to repeat what i said befoe your computer cut out
<andysucks> if only this would stop locking up enough to even let me type
<magpie> can you not get onto another computer while you fix this one?
<magpie> it's a good idea not to keep it running if it has a virus
<magpie> especially connected to the net
<b1ackcr0w> andysucks: Zorin OS is based on Ubuntu but LXFE, I'm using it on a very old PC to run an XBMC center quite successfully
<b1ackcr0w> might be worth a look
<magpie> yeah that's a good shout
<magpie> lxfe is very light too
<magpie> lubuntu is using the same thing to this
<mungbean> +1 for lubuntu
<dwatkins> +1 lubuntu
<magpie> :-)
<andysucks> Downloading lunbuntu now
<b1ackcr0w> +1 for lubuntu. I only suggested Zorin because they've a version with all the pae extensions hacked out which can be helpful on low powered PCs
<andysucks> in hope i can boot and rescue like you said magpire
<andysucks> magpie*
<b1ackcr0w> and so do crunchbang BTW
<magpie> don't worry just remember the order
<andysucks> Only thing is it only seems to give me a 64 bit download option not a 32
<magpie> format the usb fat 32
<magpie> install unetbootin on it with the disk image ready to mount
<magpie> go into bios
<magpie> select boot from usb
<magpie> try before installing
<magpie> copy your files to a spare hard disk
<magpie> reboot
<magpie> then clean install
<magpie> make sure you try without installing and then copied your files and you have nothing to worry about.
<andysucks> just need to somehow not stress because this is so slow right now
<magpie> yeah just take this time to think through the steps in your head
<magpie> write them down on a pen and paper for when you have to go offline
<andysucks> the install for unetbootin is that an exe coz that wont load from linux right?
<magpie> do you know the name of the virus attacking you?
<andysucks> nope i wish i did
<magpie> hmm good question
<andysucks> ill ask my gf what sites she was visiting to see if i can google anything sec
<mungbean> malwarebytes is still good at detecting that stuff on windows
<magpie> is it just your browsing that is affected?
<magpie> or when your browser is not open does it affect the functionality of other programs?
<andysucks> its the whole OS
<magpie> second that @mungbean
<andysucks> as soon as i log on theres a overding screen that wont allow ne to do anything
<magpie> what kind of screen?
<andysucks> just a fake the police are watching u bla bla pay up
<magpie> that does sound like malware try mungbean's suggestion
<magpie> malwarebytes is free and it can be much better than antivirus at catching this sort of attack
<andysucks> ye but problem is it needs to be dos based as i cant log windows to scan
<andysucks> thats why i wanted the AVG external USB scan thing
<andysucks> but thats when we had issues running the setup.sh
<andysucks> because theres two andy users and one for some reason is a guest
<andysucks> and it wouldnt allow me to run the setup.sh
<magpie> is it pretending to be polic then
<magpie> police?
<andysucks> ye
<magpie> Specialist Crime Directorate
<magpie> ?
<andysucks> something like that i think
<magpie> ok
<andysucks> im just luck y i have a ubuntu parttion
<andysucks> or id have nothing
<magpie> if it's a common virus it's possible we can find the files and destroy them individually so that you can get enough functionality back to clean it completely
<magpie> can you boot into ubuntu?
<magpie> can you do that now?
<andysucks> i am in ubuntu now
<andysucks> its just a little slow
<magpie> oh good
<magpie> well in that case
<magpie> can you see yourr windows directories?
<andysucks> very new to ubuntu how would i do that?
<andysucks> terminal is open
<andysucks> assuming i need it :P
<magpie> it should be a folder with a windowsy name like C:/user/bla
<magpie> maybe someone who has a dual boot can help me out herE?
<magpie> it's been a long time since i ran windows alongside ubuntu
<andysucks> let me have a poke around my drive
<andysucks> think i can see something
<andysucks> im in the computer of ubuntu but fiddling
<andysucks> one moment
<andysucks> it seems i can see both drives (meaning windows always like a seprate parttion for recovery) but i can actually get any folders etc up
<magpie> the offending file is appently called ctfmon.lnk
<magpie> you can start windows into dos if that is easier
<magpie> instruction for that as howto'd Boot the system into Safe Mode. To do so:
<magpie>      First, restart the system (Click Start, then Shut Down, select Restart in the drop-down dialog box that appears, then click OK).
<magpie>     As the computer restarts but before Windows launches, press F8.
<magpie>     Use the arrow keys to highlight 'Safe Mode' and then press Enter.
<KevanV> I've got a dual boot... but I'll have to go and get it
<andysucks> if i boot safe mode
<andysucks> they have i think programmed something into it because
<andysucks> even thought it changes render i cant click or read anything
<magpie> n Safe Mode, find the file ctfmon.lnk in the Startup folder (C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Program\Startup\ctfmon.lnk) and delete it.
<andysucks> was teh first thig i thought of
<andysucks> boot safe mode scan and remove
<andysucks> i cant
<magpie> can you use your keyboard?
<magpie> if so you can navigate with the tab key
<magpie> shift tab goes back and tab takes you to the next button
<andysucks> its not that, its the fact that all the widnows are miss rendered i cant see antyhign within them
<andysucks> i can move my mouse use teh keyboard but i cant read or see antyhing
<KevanV> has your tried ultimate boot disk... it runs from CD and has several antivirus software on it.
<magpie> ok then stick with finding it from ubuntu
<andysucks> i would but i have an issue currently getting files to run from here ubuntu to set up on my USB
<andysucks> as im on a netbook with no cd rom
<magpie> you should be able to do this
<KevanV> andysucks: sorry I was late to this convo
<andysucks> its fine im sure im annoying everyone with my spam im just really happy that there are awesome people about liek you guys who dont just ignore me and help
<magpie> i'll have a look at the unetbootin and see what it says about running the ubuntu disk image from a windows version
<andysucks> im so happy for all the help i can get
<magpie> it's probably ok
<andysucks> well currently i have the zip files for lbuntu unetboting and the AVG USB run thing
<KevanV> if I'm correct... 1. windows has a virus/trogen that is demanding money to access the computer. ubuntu works.
<andysucks> yes
<KevanV> has is encrypted documents?
<KevanV> has it*
<andysucks> i cant do anything i have no idea
<andysucks> asap i log in i screen pops and i cant d anything its in the boot up i guess
<KevanV> from ubuntu have you got a file browsers?
<andysucks> i dont think so im not sure
<andysucks> how would i check that?
<andysucks> i can see computer etc
<andysucks> and all my drives including teh USB no plugged in
<andysucks> now*
<KevanV> on the screen can you see computer.... ah yes... clicking that
<KevanV> good
<andysucks> theres 2 drives teh main and the silly little rescue one that windows wants (tried that also it just errors even with a full recovery)
<andysucks> if i go into the main and get to the first window
<andysucks> all i see is
<magpie> yeah i think it's fine to boot ubuntu from the .exe
<andysucks> boot and system volume
<magpie> it's only once your clean install is on you wouldn't be able to use it again because ur bootloader would be grub
<andysucks> but neither of those let em do much
<magpie> but that's not a problem for what you need
<KevanV> navigate to something in the windows drive "my documents"  it can be in one of many places depending on the windows version and if you upgraded from one version to another
<magpie> system volume is the windows btw
<andysucks> one file in it thought
<andysucks> tracking.log
<andysucks> nothing else
<KevanV> okay... what version of windows is it?
<andysucks> stupid windows 7 starter
<magpie> look
<magpie> you vcan just put lubuntu on unetbootin
<magpie> as planned
<magpie> it's ok
<magpie> as long as you can format the usb to fat32 it will serve you properly
<KevanV> okay... I've got that on a computer... will boot that computer to find where your files will be.
<KevanV> magpie: yes usb will be needed :)
<magpie> @kevanV apparently it's in  C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Program\Startup\ctfmon.lnk)
<andysucks> yes but i cant get to that
<andysucks> as theres only one file viewable from ubuntu
<magpie> don't worry
<magpie> unetbootin will work
<magpie> have you got a spare HD?
<andysucks> I think so external just not sure if theres stuff on it
<andysucks> what you thinking magpie?
<magpie> check
<andysucks> ... GF!!!
<andysucks> ok cant use it
<andysucks> she has "things" she cant loose and are too big to temp put on her mac
<magpie> i'm thinking i double checked and we can go back to the initial plan where you boot into try lubuntu without installing , rescue your files and then clean install with unetbootin
<magpie> don't blame your gf it's not her fault
<andysucks> well ill extract the unetbooting to the USB
<magpie> it's just one of those things
<magpie> another reason not to use windows
<magpie> of the many that exist
<andysucks> and try and set the BIOS and prio USB/CD and try and use teh "try before install thing"
<magpie> yeah
<KevanV> magpie: agreed... (but I have to use it at work!)
<magpie> but first u need to download lubuntu
<andysucks> if i have one word documnet that i really need due to a whole years worth of language course notes
<magpie> have you been doing that?
<magpie> and unetbootin
<andysucks> id already be thinking clean wipe
<magpie> yea do rescue the files first though
<andysucks> i have Unetbootin but its taking for ever to unzip
<magpie> that malware won't be a problem once you're off windows
<andysucks> was on a MAC but that died too :P the HD cable keeps going
<magpie> how about the lubuntu download?
<andysucks> got that also
<andysucks> but i think its a 64 bit version
<andysucks> there was no 32 bit option
<andysucks> or i coudl see at least
<magpie> it's not too much of a problem but it's not going to be as good in the long run
<KevanV> andysucks: normally that's not a prolem
<magpie> right.
<andysucks> ok well my 4gb USB is fomratted fat style
<magpie> can anyone remember how to use the terminal to unzip?
<andysucks> i can right clik and unziop mate
<andysucks> ubuntu has almost a windows like UI
<magpie> it'll probably be better to use the terminal rather than gui if it's being oddly slow
<andysucks> its not basic linux so im not to screwed with commands
<andysucks> its the the gui its teh actual unzip
<andysucks> it just sticks
<directhex> "unzip /path/to/file.zip" extracts in the current folder
<andysucks> and then the whole OS locks
<andysucks> and i have to hole the powerbutton to get back control with reboot to ubunutu
<andysucks> god read this problem sounds so damn stupid im so embrassed haha
<magpie> go into task manager and cancel anything that is running which u don't need
<magpie> unless you aren't sure what it does
<magpie> the kill command does this
<magpie> ok open terminal
<magpie> can you type this:
<magpie> lsof
<andysucks> right its going
<magpie> and paste the contents
<andysucks> HAHA says inflating: home/andy... etc etc
<andysucks> ok sec
<magpie> paste
<andysucks> sec i cant get to terminal window... Grr
<andysucks> wow thats alot of text
<andysucks> you sure im ok to paste that?
<magpie> ok hold on
<magpie> i've a shorter one for you
<andysucks> pretty sure 1) youd all hate me for spam 2) admin would kick me :)
<magpie> sudo lsof -i -n -P
<mungbean> | pastebinit
<magpie> yeah n send link
<andysucks> huh?
<magpie> it's not that long with this command, will he get kicked for it?
<andysucks> its like 13 lines?
<magpie> http://pastebin.com/ just in case
<andysucks> COMMAND    PID   USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME avahi-dae  782  avahi   12u  IPv4   8613      0t0  UDP *:5353  avahi-dae  782  avahi   13u  IPv6   8614      0t0  UDP *:5353  avahi-dae  782  avahi   14u  IPv4   8615      0t0  UDP *:48331  avahi-dae  782  avahi   15u  IPv6   8616      0t0  UDP *:39966  cupsd      802   root    8u  IPv6   8671      0t0  TCP [::1]:631 (LISTEN) cupsd      802   root    9u  IPv4   8672   
<andysucks> it re ordered it but when i pastes went back
<magpie> also netstat -l | grep tcp this
<magpie> netstat -l | grep tcp
<magpie> on its own
<magpie> hmm this is hard to read
<andysucks>     COMMAND    PID   USER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME     avahi-dae  782  avahi   12u  IPv4   8613      0t0  UDP *:5353     avahi-dae  782  avahi   13u  IPv6   8614      0t0  UDP *:5353     avahi-dae  782  avahi   14u  IPv4   8615      0t0  UDP *:48331     avahi-dae  782  avahi   15u  IPv6   8616      0t0  UDP *:39966     cupsd      802   root    8u  IPv6   8671      0t0  TCP [::1]:631 (LISTEN)     cupsd      802   ro
<andysucks> any better?
<andysucks> it wont order properlu
<andysucks> sorry all for wall of text
<magpie> is that it?
<andysucks> yep
<andysucks> the last command anyways
<andysucks> i didnt paste teh super huge one
<andysucks> you want me to do that?
<magpie> did you run
<magpie>  also netstat -l | grep tcp this
<magpie> can you run thaT?
<magpie> also kill all the avahi processes you don't need them
<ali1234> wat
<andysucks> ok done
<magpie> they are local network discovery
<ali1234> why are you killing things
<andysucks> becuse my tiny netbook cant run very well right now
<magpie> so hes not struggling to run the programs he needs to run
<ali1234> unzip?
<magpie> yup
<andysucks> sad but true
<andysucks> it wont complete
<mungbean> suddenly a load of albums i wanted that areusually 10Â£+ are 2.99 on amazon...BUY!
<andysucks> and locks up ubuntu completley
<ali1234> you are using livecd?
<andysucks> nice mungbean!
<andysucks> no alil234 im using teh achive thing built in
<magpie> not uet but he will be
<magpie> try runnig the command from terminal
<magpie> unzip file.zip
<ali1234> waaaaaat
<magpie> but make sure you are in the right directory first
<andysucks> ~/downloads will get me into teh directoy right?
<andysucks> I wouldnt keep asking but i keep re booting due to the lock up and loosing the conversation
<andysucks> and magpie the exe errors when i drop it into the USB
<andysucks> for unetbootin
<popey> I fully don't understand what on earth is going on here.
<popey> so I am out.
<magpie> you don't drop it
<magpie> sorry popey
<andysucks> No im sorry
<andysucks> for spamming you all
<magpie> andysucks has a virus
<andysucks> and being so usless
<magpie> and we're talking him through a clean reinstall
<magpie> andysucks
<magpie> type
<magpie> ls
<magpie> into terminal
<mungbean> On Linux systems, Cloud Player only supports downloading songs one at a time. To download your music, deselect all tick boxes, select the tick box for the song you want to download, then click the "Download" button.
<mungbean> whaat?
<andysucks> sec magpie its in the Downloads cd itslisting teh files there
<andysucks> need get back to home sec
<magpie> this tells you all thejust typ
<magpie> cd Downloads
<magpie> or did you already unzip it?
<andysucks> i have the exe in downloads it came as one
<andysucks> was lookign at the AVG thing
<andysucks> would be easist
<andysucks> sec sorry im confusing even myself
<magpie> oh then you might need to download the unebootin for linux
<magpie> can you do this?
<andysucks> ye should be ok
<magpie> unless you can boot into safe mode windows the unetbootin will need to be the linux one if ur mounting the disk image of lubuntu from ubuntu
<magpie> it's a small file yeah
<KevanV> I just subscribed tonight!
<KevanV> sorry wrong window!
<magpie> kevanV to what?
<magpie> lol
<KevanV> linuxoutlaws :)
<andysucks> magpie you use skype?
<andysucks> wait nevermind its not install here...
<magpie> nope sorry
<magpie> i just clicked on something and it took me out for some reason where have you got to?
<andysucks> apart from pulling all my hair out you mean?
<magpie> relax
<magpie> have you got unetbootin downloaded?
<magpie> the linux version?
<andysucks> crashed before i could
<magpie> have you the spare HD?
<magpie> try again
<andysucks> nope just a small 4gb USB HD is GF and well isnt helpful to say the least
<magpie> lol
<andysucks> what did u say the name of the file was in teh start up of windows mate?
<magpie>  unzip
<magpie> sorry
<magpie> .ctfmon.lnk
<andysucks> hmm everything says safe mode but that doesnt help me bah annoying
<andysucks> one moment please
<magpie> hold on
<magpie> i'll give you the full directory
<magpie> you need to go to C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Program\Startup\ctfmon.lnk
<andysucks> question if i can get safemode with command prompt would i be able to do anything with that?
<magpie> yes!
<magpie> thats what you want
<andysucks> ok i think im able to get command prompt up but i have no idea what to write
<magpie> dir
<magpie> that lists the directories
<andysucks> is teh extension .lnk a file or  program?
<magpie> it wont be there we need to navigate to is
<Darael> andysucks: Windows Shortcut.
<magpie> what did the dir print back?
<magpie> we need to find out what directoriy u are in before we can find the directory of the virus
<andysucks> issue is idhave to log off here and boot the windows patrtion
<andysucks> which is annoying and confusin or everyone here
<magpie> why do u need to log off?
<magpie> now you are in you may as well find the file and destroy it
<andysucks> huh ok u want me to do that from ubuntu?
<andysucks> ok sec
<andysucks> im in the home directory of ubuntu im not in the command propt for windows without re logging
<andysucks> sorry if you thought i was i was just reading something on a website and i have been into safe mode with prompt but couldnt do anything as my dos knowledge is 0
<magpie> oh u confused me
<andysucks> yes im sorry
<magpie> just install run unetbootin when it downloads
<andysucks> is why  suggested skype as well easier to make sense of my rambling
<andysucks> i have no unetbootin the linux version downloaded
<magpie> i'm gunna have to head in a few
<magpie> please write the instruction down and check u understood
<magpie> you need the linux unetbootin
<andysucks> i wrote it down earlie mate :)
<andysucks> if u need to go its cool
<andysucks> and im so sorry all and anyone who ive bugged annoyed and cofused this evening
<magpie> ok any problems i suggest you handle rest when you can get on a laptop so you can stay online whilst your booting and things
<magpie> but try to stay calm and just go through step by step
<magpie> if you panic you can easily make a mistake but if ur methodical there'll be no trouble saving your stuff and fixing your net book
<magpie> take care and good luck with it.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-09
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<Laney> thatcher overload
<Laney> might have to turn radio 4 off
<jacobw> Morning
<jacobw> Bachman Thatcher Overdrive
<MooDoo> you should see the papers :S
<mungbean> newspapers? what's that?
<MooDoo> lol
<mungbean> is that when people print out news websites onto paper?
<MooDoo> yup apparently so
<mungbean> what a waste
<MooDoo> and on the TV news this morning, I watched a fight....sigh
<JamesTait> Good morning, and happy Equal Pay Day! :-D
<popey> here's your cut-out-and-keep JamesTait http://paste.ubuntu.com/5691777/
<JamesTait> :D
<JamesTait> popey, it's just missing the dates!
<MooDoo> seems like you're only here fridays and monday ;) today being the exception lol
<JamesTait> Also, I'm very suspicious of anything that suggests I'm awake before 9am, especially on a Friday. ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<JamesTait> MooDoo, maybe I'm just not as creative on Mondays and Fridays?
<JamesTait> MooDoo, or those are the days I forget about daysoftheyear.com ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> anyone here going for loco council?
<Laney> this morning is a morning for Marquee Moon
<MooDoo> It's oh so quiet.sshhhh shhhh
<SuperMatt> It's oh so still.sshhhh shhhh
<shauno> you're all alone
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: You too? One of the people at Starbucks was singing that as well (because there was no queue)
<MooDoo> pah, you mean people are actually working?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I think they were all late for work tbh
<MooDoo> lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: the train station was almost empty, at 8:45!
<MooDoo> half term still isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: not in this country
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: it is for nottingham, still half term, that explains why it's quiet up here
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: it explains why they had time to make this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUUN0W4_JY
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: are you bored? ;)
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<MooDoo> howdy
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<mungbean> ok, after following 30 steps to remove the battery from hp touchpad, the thing is glued in. not cool , hp
<mungbean> if the battery wasn't broken before, it is now
<bigcalm> Nice
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mukka 'ow am ya
<MooDoo> davmor2: alreet youf
<davmor2> MooDoo: r good ta
<MooDoo> long time no speak, in ere at lease
<MooDoo> least
 * bigcalm sneezes excessively
<MooDoo> bless you
<davmor2> MooDoo: you don't bless people for sneezing you curse them for making a row ;)
<MooDoo> well i was thinking of chainsaw across the forehead, but maybe that's a bit extreame
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: nah, waiting for the testsuite to finish :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: there is nothing extreme about waiting for a testcase to finish ;)
<popey> busy busy busy
<shauno> ...bumblee bee!
<davmor2> popey: you can't be that busy there aren't 72hours in a day :P
<MooDoo> davmor2: your facebook tests failed :p
<MooDoo> didn't see them
<davmor2> MooDoo: they did yesterday that's why I was testing them :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: :)
<mungbean> interesting for a touhcopad owner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/tenderloin
 * mungbean has a working tablet again. thanks ebay
<mungbean> and ifixit
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: do you have the ifxit repair kit?
 * MartijnVdS has the "Advanced" one.. so many tools in one!
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: er the what?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ^
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: wrong m<tab>, sorry
<MooDoo> s'ok :)
<mungbean> huh MartijnVdS ?
<bigcalm> Anybody using SparkleShare know how set-up a headless client?
<mungbean> i have the ifixit webpage and a metal spudger and a plastic spudger and a plectrum
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I have the complete "Advanced" kit they offer
<mungbean> nice
<mungbean> its a useful website
<mungbean> second time i have repaired my touchpad
<mungbean> replacing battery was serious work though
<directhex> bigcalm, huh, good question, i don't know if they support that
<bigcalm> directhex: ho-hum :)
<bigcalm> I've just moved my SparkleShare directory onto a samba share and added the <folder_path> option to the config.xml. Doesn't appear to be working yet though :(
<bigcalm> Server reboot time, yay
<Nafallo> bigcalm: should have opted in for Uptrack while it was available ;-)
<bigcalm> ?
<Nafallo> http://www.ksplice.com/
<bigcalm> o.O
<MooDoo> wow ksplice has been around for years
<bigcalm> Sounds like overkill for my home server
<Nafallo> get a girlfriend and you'll reconsider ;-)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: what you talking about, my home server has been up 12 days now ;)
<Nafallo> "what do you mean I can't watch sex and the city?!?"
<bigcalm> Nafallo: I have a fiancÃ©e who is happy with the VirginMedia V+ box
<mungbean> i have a wife who was less upset than me when the pvr wiped our whole library
<mungbean> if i have a GPU lockup bug that occurred when not using unity, should i mention it in the bug report, and will it still be considered?
<Nafallo> bigcalm: you're saying that Virgin box is not running Ubuntu yet? ;-)
<mungbean> or is a gpu lockup pretty much standard across all DEs
<ali1234> it depends what type of GPU it is
<ali1234> if it is nvidia or ATI there is no point reporting it at all
<mungbean> sandybridge intel
<ali1234> if it is intel you should report it to bugs.freedesktop.org
<ali1234> what DE you use is irrelevant
<mungbean> reported on launchpad as it submitted crash reports
<mungbean> launchpad should send upstream right?
<mungbean> ....right?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> if you don't upstream it yourself this is what will happen
<ali1234> in about 6 months someone will ask you if the bug still happens
<ali1234> if you don't answer they will close the bug
<ali1234> if you answer, then in another 6 months they will ask you again
<mungbean> :(
<Myrtti> of course the mail man came around with a parcel too big to fit in when I was mopping up a pint of water our kettle had decided it didn't want to boil from the kitchen floor.
<Myrtti> grrh
<bigcalm> class ControllerController extends Controller
 * bigcalm giggles
<mungbean> got the gpu lockup again :(
<popey> can you ssh in from another machine?
<popey> or switch to tty0
<popey> mungbean: also, what release of ubuntu is it?
<popey> http://www.tesco.com/direct/technika-barcelona-bluetooth-speaker/515-4294.prd tempting
<mungbean> popey: 12.04
<mungbean> ali1234: bryce harrington seems to forawrd launchpad bugs to freedesktop
<mungbean> #1166726
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have one of these that I don't use: http://www.ionaudio.com/products/details/roadrocker
<popey> blimey, thats huge â»
<bigcalm> popey: odd. It states "Battery only". But if you look at the rear of the device there is a usb socket with the label "DC 5V"
<MartijnVdS> popey: it makes a lot of sound too :)
<popey> bigcalm: for charging
<bigcalm> I see
<popey> Q. How much sound?
<popey> A. A lot.
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: that looks like it could produce a better quality sound than the think I bought: http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1041
<mungbean> bug #1166726
<lubotu3> bug 1166726 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "[sandybridge-m-gt2] GPU lockup render.IPEHR: 0x54300804" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1166726
<popey> blimey, you bought one?
<bigcalm> popey: on a whim, yes
<bigcalm> popey: works quite well for what it is. Using it to listen to podcasts in the kitchen and will be used in hotel rooms for spotify
<davmor2> popey: did you not see his whole twitter episode about it
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it has a nice bass :)
<popey> mungbean: probably a duplicate of bug 899159?
<lubotu3> bug 899159 in mesa (Ubuntu) "[snb-gt2] GPU lockup render.IPEHR: 0x7b009004 (Needs 8.0.2)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/899159
<popey> I quite like the look of the tesco one, because a) cheap.
<popey> and it has an aux in too, so can plug in random non-bluetooth devices, like kids ipods
<popey> also, friend of mine got the creative D80
<bigcalm> popey: get one and then lets compare the audio quality with the Boombero :)
<mungbean> popey: i don't know if the 0x54301920913 makes a difference?
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Wireless-Bluetooth-Speaker-Android/dp/B0056XMVZS
 * TheOpenSourcerer needs some air. Going to pop out to lunch somewhere...
<popey> wise!
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: burger at the maltings :D
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: apparently 700 quid to fix my volvo
<popey> (dashboard)
<popey> bah
<Nafallo> volvo!
<bigcalm> popey: the tank is still running then?
<Nafallo> iz Svensk!
<popey> mungbean: ask bryce in #ubuntu-x
<popey> bigcalm: yup
<popey> but the dashboard no longer works, which is a problem for detecting fuel
<mungbean> yeah its a different bug, mine required a reboot
<bigcalm> And speed?
<Nafallo> also, I've got the Creative D100, and it's full of awesome.
<popey> nah
<popey> oh, the d80 has no battery
<popey> i want battery
<Nafallo> yeah, the D100 takes four batteries, and last for literately ages.
<popey> too spendy
<Nafallo> huh?
<Nafallo> too spendy?
<mungbean> geary funding at 23%..16 days left, hmmm
<Nafallo> as in, the upfront cost or the battery usage?
<Nafallo> I tried geary... it doesn't work well for my use-case.
<Nafallo> might keep it around on the netbook
<mungbean> thats why they are raising money to improve it
<mungbean> e.g. no search atm
<Nafallo> that was the small issue, yes.
<Nafallo> the bigger one was moving mail and it disappearing...
<KungFuPanda> hi guys, what is the easest solution:
<KungFuPanda> I need upload few files by using ftp user, then want to www-data user to be able to read it.
<KungFuPanda> I knew I could chmod permisson after uploaded, but I do not want to  do it everytime.
<KungFuPanda> any1 ? all on lunch ?
<MartijnVdS> KungFuPanda: You need to re-think the problem, I think
<MartijnVdS> Because this is a classic:
<MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<KungFuPanda> thanks, I will try to explain X:
<KungFuPanda> I got an webapp which using as webuser, the app need to load some data file, which I need to upload it to the server everyday.
<MartijnVdS> KungFuPanda: you can make apache run the site as a different user/group
<MartijnVdS> KungFuPanda: and upload as a user in that group (to a directory owned by  the group)
<Darael> KungFuPanda: One way to do it would be to sgid www-data on the folder to which the file is uploaded.  That assumes having the necessary positions to set the folder that way in the first place.
<KungFuPanda> I like sgid solution.:-D
<KungFuPanda> if I create an folder which own by www-data under /var/www, then I create symbolic link under my ftp user home. then when I use ftp user upload file into that folder. is that will work?
<KungFuPanda> www-data own that folder, but do not own these files. is that will work ?
<MartijnVdS> sure, as long as it can read them (read up on unix permissions :))
<KungFuPanda> Great! thanks a lot
<davmor2> KungFuPanda: does the file name change? if not sync it instead.  the other possibility might be to simply link it.  so you upload the file to directory x and then link it to directory y where y has the correct access for the webapp
<MartijnVdS> also, ftp tends to not be the best solution
<KungFuPanda> yeh, the files name random, my code just look for that folder, if there are files, will load it. but I will try that, thanks a lot
<MartijnVdS> it being insecure etc.
<Myrtti> I'm wondering should I order more of those socks.
<Myrtti> still when there's a -25% offer on them
<jacobw> You can always use more socks
<mungbean> really? i only have 2 feet
<MooDoo> mungbean: you mean you don't make sock puppets with your access socks?
<kvarley> Is there a way to resize raw qemu-img files to their physical size on disk. At present the virtual size is 32GB but there is only 1 partition on there which constitutes about 7GB
<mungbean> MooDoo: my wife does in fact
<mungbean> she makes sock monkeys
<Laney> i'm accidently listening to the spice girls
<Laney> this is GREAT
<MooDoo> awesome :) I bought one of them at a local church fair the other day :) a pink one.
<mungbean> but all my socks are black so missing socks are just reducing the pool size
<MooDoo> mungbean: she wasn't selling them in calverton notts the other day was she ;)
<mungbean> no :P
<MooDoo> wasn't her then :)
<mungbean> what comeback do you have when buying online and they mis-descibe it?
<mungbean> who pays postage for return of item?
<mungbean> if they claim it is $BRAND item and it's chinese knock0ff?
<Lil-|^Red> Can you get the seller on Amazon to pay the return postal costs ?
<kvarley> mungbean: don't amazon give you freepost labels?
<mungbean> even if a amazon market place?
<kvarley> mungbean: Not sure but I think so
<Laney> file an a-z guarantee claim
<Lil-|^Red> I thnk they do , come to mention it.
<mungbean> i haven't bought it yet, but its diffcult to buy items that are imported because no official shop sells them
<mungbean> looks like i'm blowing my fun budget this mont
<MooDoo> my fun budget was for the new bioshock game lol
<mungbean> i'm buying an airbrush and lots of accesories
<bigcalm> MooDoo: the new BS game - does one need to have played the previous games to enjoy this one?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: I hope not as I've not played the others.
<bigcalm> MooDoo: oh, you haven't played it yet then
<Darael> kvarley: if there's free space enough, cp --sparse=always and delete the original.
<MooDoo> bigcalm: I got it through steam it's 14GB
<bigcalm> :O
<MooDoo> yeah ouch
<Darael> kvarley: There is no way I know of to make files sparse in-place, unfortunately.  But if there isn't space enough, try moving it to an external disk and bringing it back with cp --sparse.
<bigcalm> MooDoo: That sounds like a lot of cut scenes
<Darael> kvarley: (I realise I'm twenty minutes late...)
<kvarley> Darael: I went with "qemu-img convert -p -O qcow2 x.img y.img" in the end :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yes what I've seen so far, it's a lot of cust and video
<kvarley> Darael: Thanks anyway :)
<MooDoo> cut scenes
<Darael> kvarley: Ah, a less-generically-applicable but probably more-contextually-relevant solution.  Good going.
<kvarley> Darael: Have no idea if it's worked yet, just flashing to my SD card now :P
<Lil-|^Red> kvarley: As far as Amazon marketplace sellers paying postage on returning Items : They don't . The buyer has to pay all of the returns postage. http://bit.ly/10QiBvB [Note there is no Pre-paid Consignment Mark]
<mungbean> even if its fraud?
<kvarley> Lil-|^Red: Ah
<mungbean> i.e Gucci wallet, turns out to be asda
<kvarley> Get in touch with amazon support and they'll sort it out for you if it's a non-genuine product
<kvarley> I imagine they don't want fake products being sold on their site after all :)
<Lil-|^Red> mungbean: The only god thing that comes outta Asda is a GeorgeVest IMHO.
<kvarley> So much for class 10 SDHC cards, currently writing at 2.6 MB/s to one :(
<Darael> Lil-|^Red: Their vests are *holy objects*?!
<Lil-|^Red> kvarley: Aren't class six bettr at this ?
<Lil-|^Red> Darael: You've lost me there .. perhaps slightly past R.O.C.D.
<Darael> Lil-|^Red: Playing on thy typo: "The only god thing"
<kvarley> Lil-|^Red: They aren't supposed to be, but in reality yeah
<Lil-|^Red> what typo | god never existed !
<Darael> Lil-|^Red: 15:41:34 < Lil-|^Red> mungbean: The only god thing that comes outta Asda is a GeorgeVest IMHO.
<Darael> ^That typo.
<Lil-|^Red> it means little red .
<Lil-|^Red> like Lil Jon.
<Darael> Lil-|^Red: My apologies.  I meant in the line quoted, not thy nick.
<Darael> Lil-|^Red: I should have aligned the caret.
<DJones> Can somebody on 13.04 check whether Friends has a twitter account? Friends is working fine for facebook, but there's no way to add a twitter account, wasn't sure if its a bug or whether there's another package that needs installing for twitter
<bigcalm> The TV show?
<DJones> You wish :)
<AlanBell> DJones: yes, it twitters, but the feed doesn't update for me
<AlanBell> it just tells you every time since the stone age that anyone mentioned you
<AlanBell> then picks up a few tweets each time you tweet I think
<DJones> AlanBell: Strange, if I go to online accounts, I don't have an option to add a twitter account to friends
<DJones> Pulling down the timeline is updating it when there are new facebook posts
<kvarley> DJones: I don't have the option in online accounts either, running from beta2 livecd
<DJones> kvarley: Thanks, must be a bug/wip, there's no twitter option at all in Online Accounts now
<Lil-|^Red> Darael: Ahh , I see your typo -case-in-point from just under an hour ago. I see that /I/ made the typo and grievous error. 0oops !
<Lil-|^Red> OT | Great ! Super ! Just got back from buying 400grams of Saints and Scholars Â© / 'Pork & Spring Onion' Sausages from the S.market  for ... a Grand.Total of Â£0.30 .. Aaah, plus mixing-in Irish Stew.. that's one hell of a haul , today.
<AlanBell> DJones: with the online accounts thing for facebook did that identify to facebook as safari?
<AlanBell> "We detected a login into your account from a new device named "Safari on Linux" on Tuesday 9 April 2013 at 17:10. This device has been added to your account."
<DJones> Doesn't appear to, I've got Gwibber and Ubuntu showing as authorised apps
<DJones> Gwibber hasn't connected in months, so must just be the Ubuntu account connected today
<j0sh^> hey guys, having to use my own ubuntu laptop rather than work macbook at the moment as macbook died
<j0sh^> on osx I have this set as my ssh_config:
<j0sh^> https://gist.github.com/joshmyers/81c68da2b373382840f5
<j0sh^> not working on my ubuntu box ..
<j0sh^> but to get to our infrastructure I need to proxy my ssh connections through spring.mydomain.net
<popey> I'd put that in .ssh/config
<j0sh^> any ideas how I can do this in ubuntu?
<j0sh^> be it global or user specific ssh conf ...
<j0sh^> for a start I don't have ~/bin/ssh-proxy on this box
<popey> ssh-proxy looks like corkscrew
<popey> !info corkscrew
<lubotu3> corkscrew (source: corkscrew): tunnel TCP connections through HTTP proxies. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.0-9 (quantal), package size 11 kB, installed size 53 kB
<j0sh^> I am trying ssh josh@spring.mydomain.net nc %h %p
<j0sh^> to no avail
<j0sh^> hmm
<popey> j0sh^: ^^
<j0sh^> ahh
<j0sh^> thanks popey ...
<j0sh^> will give it a look
<j0sh^> i cant see ssh-proxy in repo
<popey> which is why i said... ssh-proxy looks like corkscrew
<j0sh^> aye
<j0sh^> hmm
<j0sh^> but im not going through an http proxy popey
<AlanBell> j0sh^: what is it you are trying to do?
<AlanBell> what is being proxied? http stuff over ssh?
<j0sh^> no
<j0sh^> I have  < me > ------ < a > --------<b>
<j0sh^> i need to connect to b, but can only do so through ssh'ing into A
<popey> shhh
<popey> er, ahhhh
<j0sh^> https://gist.github.com/joshmyers/81c68da2b373382840f5 < my ssh config that allowed me to do it on OSX
<popey> ProxyCommand ssh spring.mydomain.net nc -q0 %h %p
<popey> try that
<AlanBell> ok, so you could ssh to a, then ssh to b, but want a kind of automatic relay at a
<j0sh^> (not that I'm a mac fanboy, we just use for work)
<popey> thats what we use internally
<AlanBell> https://github.com/ShuminHuang/ssh-proxy this thing?
<dwatkins> why not just use port forwarding?
<popey> dwatkins: cant if you dont control the middle box
<popey> the proxycommand above should work fine on ubuntu j0sh^
<dwatkins> popey: ah ok, I thought you could do it on a high-numbered port
<j0sh^> will try popey :)
<j0sh^> popey, like this? https://gist.github.com/joshmyers/dd91d133b8b958e39d40
<j0sh^> i want any ssh connections I make to go through spring.mydomain.net
<popey> no
<popey> 18:49:17 < popey> ProxyCommand ssh spring.mydomain.net nc -q0 %h %p
<j0sh^> ok
<j0sh^> fs still not working :/
<popey> use -vvvv with your ssh command, may help debug
<j0sh^> debug1: permanently_drop_suid: 1000
<j0sh^> debug3: Incorrect RSA1 identifier
<popey> j0sh^: is your ssh key on the remote host?
<j0sh^> yes
<j0sh^> I can log into hashing out my ssh config
<Azelphur> walked into bank today and got accepted for a business account for bitcoin trading, lol
<AlanBell> :)
<AlanBell> did you have to explain it to them?
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> I have a pretty quick way of explaining it though now
<j0sh^> def using correct key and its loaded into my agent
<Azelphur> I just say bitcoin is a virtual currency, and that I'm providing currency exchange.
<j0sh^> popey, https://gist.github.com/joshmyers/4806cb35833740721794
<j0sh^> no dice :/
<kvarley> Do I need any special flags for cp other than -vr when I'm copying one Linux FS to another location?
<popey> j0sh^: is your key correct? doesn't look like it
<popey> and is that the entire log?
<j0sh^> yup
<j0sh^> key is correct :/
<popey> have you ssh'ed before with that key from that machine?
<j0sh^> no first time from his machine
<j0sh^> i have run ssh-add mykeyfile
<popey> have you put the key on the other end though?
<j0sh^> yes
<AlanBell> permissions on /home/josh/.ssh/id_rsa ?
<j0sh^> yes
<j0sh^> my user has read only
<j0sh^> it wouldnt allow me to add the key if they werent
<popey> eh
<popey> -rw-r--r-- 1 alan alan    399 Feb  3  2012 id_rsa.pub
<popey> -rw------- 1 alan alan   1766 Feb  3  2012 id_rsa
<popey> not read only
<j0sh^> read and write only for my user
<j0sh^> so same as yours
<AlanBell> can it do the first hop?
<AlanBell> ssh spring.mydomain.net
<j0sh^> yes
<j0sh^> I can ssh onto that box
<j0sh^> and I can norm do it from my work machine :/
<neuro> ooh, ssh tomfoolery, this should be fun
<neuro> *grabs popcorn*
<j0sh^> lols
<j0sh^> not fun :/
<j0sh^> sily
<j0sh^> s/sily/silly/
<j0sh^> all commented out
<j0sh^> I can ssh -i keyfile josh@domain
<j0sh^> and works fine
<j0sh^> https://gist.github.com/joshmyers/dcb41d0234c3e80c521b
<j0sh^> but when I try to connect to box b directly from my machine it doesnt work
<j0sh^> the keys are the same
<AlanBell> so where is the nc -q0 bit
<j0sh^> 0 isn't allowed
<j0sh^> typo I guessed?
<j0sh^> ooooo
<j0sh^> forgot nc
<j0sh^> !!!
<AlanBell> popey doesn't do typos
<AlanBell> nc is netcat
<j0sh^> i know
<AlanBell> that is kinda important
<j0sh^> fkin dumbass
<j0sh^> yup
<popey> jeez
<j0sh^> sorry dude
<popey> copy/paste is your friend â»
<popey> np â»
<j0sh^> smoking a doobie here :/
<j0sh^> lol
<popey> hahah
<Laney> O_O
<j0sh^> errrr
<j0sh^> but its still not working :/
<j0sh^> https://gist.github.com/joshmyers/d1260aedcfe6f3694c54
<j0sh^> $%$Â£%
<j0sh^> I can ssh -i keyfile josh@spring.mydomain.net ok
<AlanBell> ok, but you can't just ssh spring.mydomain.net
<AlanBell> your keyfile is somewhere else then?
<j0sh^> nope I cant
<AlanBell> ProxyCommand ssh -i keyfile josh@spring.mydomain.net nc -q0 %h %p
<AlanBell> try that then
<AlanBell> /home/josh/.ssh/id_rsa is presumably not the keyfile you use then?
<j0sh^> it is
<AlanBell> and are you logging in as josh?
<j0sh^> sorry I can ssh spring.mydomain.net (when hashing out the config file)
<j0sh^> yes
<j0sh^> so I can ssh mydomain ok without the config file
<j0sh^> but using the gist'd config file I cant
<j0sh^> let me compare verbose outputs
<j0sh^> https://gist.github.com/joshmyers/1bcbd63cb14b0804fb73
<j0sh^> this is a good login
<AlanBell> no, it isn't :)
<j0sh^> the step its not getting to is Remote protocol version
<AlanBell> oh, then again, maybe it is OK
<j0sh^> it logs me in afer
<j0sh^> after
<j0sh^> strange
<Laney> celeriac is a great vegetable
<Laney> yum yum
<j0sh^> lol
<j0sh^> it is indeed
<j0sh^> AlanBell / popey ? :P
<AlanBell> dunno, but it would be handy for me for one host so I am going to tinker with it
<mungbean> asda have got a good price on bute atm
<j0sh^> I have found something!
<j0sh^> if I use a particular host rather than wilcard * , it works for that host ....
<j0sh^> wtf?!
<AlanBell> ah, it is going in circles
<ali1234> sounds like wildcard is not really wildcard
<ali1234> or wildcards are disabled by some other config
<AlanBell> I think the wildcard is applying itself to the host you want to get to
<AlanBell> I mean the intermediate host
<ali1234> you know ssh --debug right?
<ali1234> or -vvvv right
<j0sh^> doing tht ali1234
<ali1234> wait do you have two sections with wildcard *?
<j0sh^> yes but its commented out
<ali1234> hmm
<j0sh^> im still lost ...
<AlanBell> j0sh^: try changing the host line to . . .
<AlanBell> Host * !spring.mydomain.com
<AlanBell> .net rather
<AlanBell> or whatever it is, just exclude the intermediate host from the wildcard
<j0sh^> DUDE
<j0sh^> YOU DA MAN
 * AlanBell does little victory dance
<popey> \o/
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting TBA | ubuntuî¿ | AlanBell is "Da man"
 * j0sh^ slaps AlanBell with a wet fish. no dancing!
<j0sh^> :)
<j0sh^> haha
<j0sh^> thanks guys, never seen that before
<j0sh^> wnder why it was doing that
<Myrtti> what's that character after ubuntu and before the pipe and AlanBell's nickname on the topic?
<Myrtti> the logo?
<AlanBell> I am totally going to use that config thingie, there are several places that I have an intermediate hop to
<AlanBell> Myrtti: yes, the logo
<AlanBell> it is in a private use area of unicode
<AlanBell> sladen put it there I think
<Myrtti> right, I don't have it in my fonts then
<AlanBell> http://font.ubuntu.com
<ali1234> when i fork ubuntu i'm going to replace that glyph with trollface guy
<ali1234> this will be the only change
<Myrtti> lol
<ali1234> oh i see so it was trying to connect to the proxy, then matching the *, and then trying to proxy through the proxy... forever
<mungbean> wife in bed, front door bolted, about to stick a bottle in screaming babys mouth, and a person ignores the cold caller sign to knock on the door to ask for sponsorship for a run they are doing. i dont even know this person. grrr
<popey> blimey, that's rude
<popey> does your wife know them?>
<popey> go wake her up to find out
<popey> I'll wait
<ali1234> take baby to door and after the person says something, pretend to listen to what the baby is whispering and then reply
<ali1234> like a baby interpreter
<popey> "babby says no"
 * popey stabs intel graphics
<mungbean> popey: no, random lady, although repeat offender
<mungbean> i was carrying bscreaming sprog so no time to tell them why they are so selfish
<ali1234> "hi, please sponsor me to go door to door asking for sponsorship"
<mungbean> i can only imagine the person is a bit "special"
<mungbean> to imagine that strangers would sponsor rather than giving thru trustworthy channels.
<ali1234> either that, or it's an actual scam
 * Seeker` tries to make bread rise by putting it on top of his CPU exhaust and running prime95
<mungbean> have you see the why is my son crying tumblr?
<mungbean> wow, mum of 37 has 16 kids
<diddledan> and the other 21?
<diddledan> oh wait.. she's 37 years old
<diddledan> ignore me
<dwatkins> The SGI website used to use images of crying babies for its 404 pages.
<mungbean> channel4 atm
<diddledan> is that better or worse than a failwhale?
<mungbean> seem like nice family, not what u expect
<popey> my ex boss has 9
<mungbean> catholic?
<popey> yes
<mungbean> nuffsaid
<popey> lovely chap though ã
<popey> yay, wifey is recording the thing about the family with lots of kids
<mungbean> watch 5 mins and uve seen it all
<mungbean> im watching it cos i couldnt reach the remote
<diddledan> that's mostly my reasoning for sitting in silence with the tv and radio both turned off
<mungbean> got my new book today 'boys book of airfix' :)
<AlanBell> popey: 19 kids and counting?
<popey> cant fathom these people
<popey> how can any of them get quality time with their parents
<mungbean> they were both adopted
<popey> yikes, 37 years old and she's got 16 kids
<mungbean> once u have 6 the others must start helping
<mungbean> i think the eldest is already spawning too
<popey> helping isnt the issue
<popey> having time with parents is
<popey> older kids can certainly help with getting younger ones dressed, making food, chores etc
<popey> "they want to do it"
<popey> or is it that they just don't know any different
<mungbean> i know rich people who send kids off to boarding school. not that i agree with it but the 16 kids must see more than the upper class
<mungbean> not sure how many kids is excessive. more than 6 i guess
<popey> my ex boss has 2 girls in boarding school
<mungbean> i am one of 5 but spread out 2,3,4 yrs apart each time
<mungbean> i would be happy stopping at 2 atm
<mungbean> does anyone else have local buying and selling pages on facebook? proving really good for picking up random 2nd hand stuff for kids
<popey> hah, the 20 year old is getting married after 4 weeks because the guy is paying her attention
<popey> says a lot
<mungbean> hmm
<mungbean> 4 weeks?
<mungbean> of dating?
<popey> yeah
<mungbean> wanrts to leave crazy home of kids
<diddledan> or mayhaps she wants her own crazy home of kids?
<mungbean> could have gone to uni if wanna move out
<popey> she did go to uni and came back
<Lil-|^Red> popey: How much did ya pay for yur Ostrich Head Pillow ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Awsome-Cute-Ostrich-Pillow-Comfortable-Power-Naps-Anytime-Anywhere-Office-Travel-/370703320600
<popey> i didnt pay for an ostrich pillow
<Lil-|^Red> Oh sorry.
<popey> I donated to a kickstarter campaign which rewarded me with an ostrich pillow
<Lil-|^Red> Oh yes, it was socks .. forgot.
<popey> I've backed a few kickstarter campaigns, including nabee socks
<mungbean> 3d pen?
<popey> yeah :D
<MartijnVdS> I kickstartered some music
<popey> Sophie is looking forward to that
<MartijnVdS> and I've already received most of that
<mungbean> would love the pen
<MartijnVdS> and some games
<Lil-|^Red> I already have a 3d pen .. it cost 45p from ubuntu store ;)
 * AlanBell is waiting for a couple of parallela boards
<Lil-|^Red> .. so are Hurd, but that's another calamity.
<mungbean> have to change batteries on a ups while running important infratrsucture..never enjoy doing that
<mungbean> shouldnt go down, but...
<popey> next thing to arrive is goldiblox and ouya
<mungbean> wonders about popeys fun budget
<mungbean> more substantial than my own.
<popey> spread over a year
<Lil-|^Red> ouya . there's a missed oppoutunity .. I saw that 'Game Stick' are massively delaying production ..
<mungbean> austerity demands reduction to Â£20pm on no-questionsasked purchases
<mungbean> used to be Â£35
<Laney> have people donated to geary?
<popey> nope
<popey> i only back ones i think will succeed
<mungbean> thunderbird works for me
<popey> and I'm certain geary wont
<popey> and I dont think the future is desktop email clients
<Lil-|^Red> I always think a good indicator as top whether the dev/team is good is asking a question like : "Do you know Assembly language ?? " .. and see if they run away.
<Lil-|^Red> ^OUYA team that is.
<mungbean> i would fund a better shotwell
<popey> yeah, me too
<mungbean> still on picasa here
<ali1234> 100,000 is a lot of money for an email client
<ali1234> how many developers do they have?
<Lil-|^Red> I dont think that team is so 'all-about-libre-software' TBH.
<popey> cant fathom how this guy affords to take his family of 20 to teneriefe
<MartijnVdS> openshot is over their target, right?
<mungbean> maybe if they fail they can divvy up into bite size bounty tasks
<popey> yes MartijnVdS
<directhex> ali1234, is it? 100,000 is, what, one competent developer for a year, factoring in costs as well as sallary?
<directhex> (assuming usd)
<directhex> it's a bit more than 1 developer in gbp, but not by much
<mungbean> popey: your g+ about the 10.10 bug got a bit uncivil..
<popey> yeah
<popey> didnt expect that
<mungbean> i felt bad reading it
<directhex> may your birthday not be filled with vomiting and shitting. Â¬_Â¬
<ali1234> directhex: i think they'd be better off with 10 incompetent developers for 2 months each
<Lil-|^Red> mungbean: can you link that , here ?
<mungbean> tenerife and it aint even sunny
<directhex> wait, ECHAN
<popey> if i could have 14 more of my two, I would, but having that many kids, no way I could spend enough time with each to get them to the same level as my current two
<directhex> ali1234, AKA thunderbird?
<ali1234> directhex: that is more like 100 incompetent developers for 2 days each
<mungbean> i like being there when my boy talks about procrastinating and prevaricating..he just turned 3
<directhex> my point is 100k is pocket change for a major software development project. evolution easily absorbed over a million dollars in paid developer time over the years
<ali1234> evolution is a huge bloated beast though
<mungbean> and one bug makes it unusable usually, wgich isnt fixed
<ali1234> geary has less than 10% the functionality of evolution, plus it is already half finished
<mungbean> geary is nice but no search, and tb really is fine oon my desktop for work email
<mungbean> nothing on telly
<Lil-|^Red> mungbean: Meanwhile over in An Daingean | http://bit.ly/YbliYp
<popey> haha, news article about women worried about kids having measles
<popey> wifey shouts at the telly 'because they're all fsckwits for not having the mmr'
<mungbean> that was the jerks fault who published in the science journal
<mungbean> "biggest medical fraud for decades"
<popey> well, partly, but people are still holding off many years later
<mungbean> seeds of doubt. thats the FUD wagon
<mungbean> when i was yhoung, no mums would give their kid the whopping cough jab
<mungbean> and, the govt told us all the swine flu vaccine was safe , and they prioritised pregnant women
<mungbean> but 1) my sample of all women at ante natal class who'd had the jab all got a flu-like illness, and none of the abstainers did
<ali1234> but they didn't die of swine flu tho right?
<mungbean> and 2) early research into whether children of swine flu jab mums have any issues
<ali1234> wait which is the one that actually kills you? that was bird flu wasn't it?
<mungbean> how many people did?
<AlanBell> H5N1
<mungbean> swine flu was the big national scare a couple of years ago
<popey> hmm, wifi network drop-out in raring
<popey> somewhat annoying
<mungbean> remember CJD? whatever happened to that?
<popey> cant file a bug while on wifi
<mungbean> there was a fear that 50% of britain would have it by 2020
<Lil-|^Red> mungbean: Some this 'bout china ? http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/plenty-things-worry-china-bird-flu-not-one-174030450.html
<mungbean> In The Lancet (June 2006), a University College London team suggested that it may take more than 50 years for vCJD to develop, from their studies of kuru, a similar disease in Papua New Guinea.[55] The reasoning behind the claim is that kuru was possibly transmitted through cannibalism in Papua New Guinea when family members would eat the body of a dead relative as a sign of mourning. In the 1950s, cannibalism was banned in PNG
<mungbean> dads dead, chow down kids
<mungbean> illness at work rose exponentially while in open plan office
<mungbean> 2 shared doors for whole office, and one bloke who never washes hands
<mungbean> maybe more
<ali1234> be the guy who never washes hands, develop immunity
<ali1234> if you don't do it, someone else will
<ali1234> "game theory"
<popey> bug 1167019
<lubotu3> bug 1167019 in linux (Ubuntu) "wifi packet loss on intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167019
<mungbean> immunity only lasts 2 weeks for stomach bugs i think
<mungbean> right. gonna try for quick kip on sofa before the next feed at 11.30
<ali1234> !info bitcoind precise
<lubotu3> bitcoind (source: bitcoin): peer-to-peer network based anonymous digital currency - daemon. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.24~dfsg-1 (precise), package size 477 kB, installed size 1188 kB
<Seeker`> fresh bread is soooooooooooo good
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-10
<Lil-|^Red> Alo'  Red Morning Light | http://spoti.fi/10ReCAJ
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: getting in? :)
<kvarley> Having a bit of pain getting grub installed on an external USB drive. I have a Ubuntu FS which is unpacked onto an EXT4 partition on the USB drive, I've changed the fstab to match the UUID. Installed grub via grub-install but it won't boot when I plug it into my laptop. any ideas on stuff I might have missed?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe the laptop can't boot off USB?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I know it can :)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: did you grub-install to /dev/sdx or /dev/sdx1?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: # grub-install --boot-directory=/mnt /dev/sda
<kvarley> The laptop shipped with Windows 8 but I have disabled secure boot, could it still be causing issues?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: I'd bind-mount /dev, /sys and /proc in to (where you've mounted /) and chroot into it :)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: --boot-directory never worked for me
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: ah.. it still UEFI-boots? Do you have the UEFI boot partition stuff?
<kvarley> Oh yeah sorry, once chrooted to /mnt I did mount sys mount proc mount dev
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: No, that'd be why then :P
<ali1234> MartijnVdS: getting in what?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: btc
<ali1234> i've been in it for two years...
<ali1234> i was just checking the version in precise... because that version is going to stop working soon
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/bitcoin/+bug/1159832
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1159832 in bitcoin (Ubuntu Quantal) "[FFE] bitcoin: Mandatory upgrade on May 15" [Medium,Triaged]
<diplo> AlanBell or TheOpenSourcerer, either of you about ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: \o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> 'sup?
<diplo> Hiya, just got a question ref vTiger if you could help
<TheOpenSourcerer> sure
<diplo> A friend of mine runs a charity and wants some CRM software, I suggested vTiger and SugarCRM, but have used neither and know you guys use vTiger, just wondering benefits over either to recommend
<TheOpenSourcerer> vtiger is opensource. Sugar is opencore (loads of the good bits are proprietary/expensive).
<diplo> Also mentioning your company for support details as well and maybe installation but not sure where they are going to go with it
<diplo> Ah, I thought i read something like that this morning
<diplo> vtiger was forked from Sugar from what i read earlier a few years ago ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, ~2005 IIRC
<TheOpenSourcerer> now they are very different.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do shedloads of vtiger work. We are getting several new enquiries every week currently
<TheOpenSourcerer> We can host it if they want. We can customise it.
<diplo> Not sure what money they have yet, was just a question on facebook this morning, just linked her to your website
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks.
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Thanks for your input :) didnt want to spout off rubbish
<diplo> Any new applications for the job yet ?
<diplo> Morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> I've been sharing the job application :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: We have interviewed one and will be seeing another candidate on Friday.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks for reminding me - better get spamming the ether again today. Just in case anyone missed it.
<diplo> heh, I'd love to do it but one i don't i can afford to and secondly I'm not really close enough :)
<diplo> "i don't think i can afford to*"
<jacobw> Morning
<MooDoo> and i'm not clever enough lol
<diplo> pfft
 * TheOpenSourcerer keeps quiet
<MooDoo> lol
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes back to hacking vtiger CRM
<MooDoo> :p
<jacobw> I'm not if my own python scripts count as a 'contribution to open source projects'
<jacobw> I guess they're on Launchpad :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just in case anyone missed it and is wondering what the discussion is about: http://www.libertus.co.uk/about-us/jobs/7-free-software-engineer ;-)
<diplo> heh
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ooo new job?  what's that all about ;) lol
<MooDoo> </sarcasm>
<mungbean> know any company thats looking to use high performance clusters, but doesn't want to own their own one?
<mungbean> our company has beefy clusters and looking to engage with other business to let others use spare capacity
<mungbean> (not sure if Azelphur bitcoin enterprises counts)
 * Lil-|^Red buys an Silver Ubuntu sticker.
<JamesTait> Happy sibling day, folks! :-D
<jacobw> JamesTait: Sibling Day? Really?
<JamesTait> jacobw, if daysoftheyear.com is to be believed. Which I'll let you decide. ;)
<jacobw> Haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> What if one's sibling is dead?
<JamesTait> jacobw, it's on the internet, it must be true, right?
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, then I suggest today is a good day to remember their memory. ;)
<JamesTait> Honour their memory.
<JamesTait> Something.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - never really liked him that much.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But yes - a good idea. I will ponder on my bro's memory for a while.
<mungbean> :-|
<mungbean> sibling day is usually called their birthday
<JamesTait> TheOpenSourcerer, reminds me of a plaque I saw above a bar once: "All of our customers bring us pleasure - some by arriving, others by leaving."
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MooDoo> it's my birthday next week....booooo
<mungbean> why boo
<MooDoo> mungbean: another year older lol
<mungbean> MooDoo: nah, its another day older
<mungbean> you grew a year older in the 364 days in between
<JamesTait> mungbean, +1
<JamesTait> Er, no pun intended.
<mungbean> :P
<MooDoo> i'm 21 again :) lol
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: 0x21
<MooDoo> :)
<mungbean> amazon cloud player is awful for linux users
<MartijnVdS> s/for linux users//
<popey> i found aquarius's blog post about google play on linux to be interesting
<MooDoo> +1 sounds like all you need is HAL and you're good to go
<mungbean> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Magnet-Expert-Ltd-Magnetic-Education/dp/B006FTCL02/
<popey> yes, tested it, works well
<mungbean> there must be a cool use for this
<MooDoo> I do like google play
<mungbean> linky please popey?
<popey> http://kryogenix.org/days/2013/04/09/watching-films-on-ubuntu-in-england
<mungbean> once your album is in cloud player you have to use a UA switcher to get the amz file and use in clamz
<popey> or you could upload to google music
<popey> which works fine on ubuntu
<MooDoo> yup I use google music
<mungbean> popey: i bought the albums in amazon though
<mungbean> so it's getting them out thats the pain
<mungbean> netflix etc have done a good job of conning non-customers into thinking they are a massive library of all films ever
<popey> i dont actually use google or amazon music, I only use spotify
<popey> but I am tempted to switch away
<mungbean> i like to own music
<popey> i dont use netflix for films, but tv series
<mungbean> as i only buy around 10 albums a year max
<mungbean> and the last 2 were suddenly reduced from Â£15 to Â£3
<Lil-|^Red> popey, If it's for the spotify client : You need to put your suggestions here.. http://bit.ly/ZgMQvE
<Lil-|^Red> leaves
<popey> what?
<SuperMatt> mungbean: you want to get really angry at netflix, try somethink like mediahint that proxies your connection
<SuperMatt> the american netflix actually has more episodes of Doctor Who than the UK version
<SuperMatt> AND they actually have torchwood episodes
<popey> so does the uk one
<SuperMatt> I didn't spot torchwood, so I retract that one
<mungbean> i like films, but only good ones. hence i don't end up watching many that were made west of land's end
<popey> all four seasons
<SuperMatt> but essentially, I think they're using the same  advertising here as in the states, which means we are lead to believe there's a lot, when there really isn't
<popey> 5 seasons of doctor who too
<SuperMatt> there's 6 seasons on US netflix
<mungbean> iplayer should do a paid service - why on earth don't they?
<mungbean> where you can access all old content
<Myrtti> Lil-|^Red: wouldn't it be easier if you'd stick to the same nickname?
<mungbean> i heard a rumour that some bbc employees have access to such an archive
<SuperMatt> I would prefer a single, broadcaster ambivolent service
<jacobw> Hmm, the BBC would have difficultly operating a subscription service
<popey> not just bbc employees
<popey> i have a non-bbc friend who got access
<jacobw> SuperMatt: See Porject Canvas
<mungbean> so it's real?
<popey> it allows you to download any programme for the main networks, not just bbc
<popey> it captures each programme, and you can download the raw mpeg2 stream
<mungbean> i want
<popey> i tried to get access but they stopped signups
<mungbean> missed last 2 minutes of a documentary t'other day, and 4od didn't have it
<mungbean> youtube did, but i was in the wrong country (!?!UK!!!)
<mungbean> official 4od youtube channel
<mungbean> craziness
<popey> that happens sometimes
<popey> I have had it too, I moaned at a friend whose company provide some of the backend
<popey> he said it is a problem with one of the (multiple) CDNs they use
<popey> the GEOIP fails sometimes
<mungbean> i'll try again from work then  :P
<popey> heh
<mungbean> is there a 4od downloader?
<BigRedS> I've long maintained that if you're using geoip to do something important you've made a mistake somewhere
<popey> no
<popey> I do love variety - http://launchpad.net/variety
<mungbean> google play gives you 30 days to choose a 2 day window to watch the film. not bad i suppose
<popey> it gave me this as my desktop background today which is lovely http://www.flickr.com/photos/52821721@N00/3193043847
<SuperMatt> I wouldn't mind a google play subscription service
<bigcalm> Hi peeps :)
<SuperMatt> hullo
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<BigRedS> ls
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> BigRedS: you're not going to get a very good listing in irc honest
<BigRedS> I've had some good ones in the past, but some have been, er, the sort of file listings I don't want made public
<BigRedS> once it had exactly the file I was looking for, too!
<mungbean> Desktop Downloads Videos Donkeys Dropbox
<BigRedS> haha, yeah, that sort of thing
<BigRedS> Anyone used webissues before? I need a really simple bugtracker with a UI that people will bother to use. Bugzilla's failed at this :(
<mungbean> redmine
<mungbean> lovely web ui and also handles email submissions/updates too
<BigRedS> yeah, but it's in ruby and I really really really hate that
<mungbean> doens't matter once its installed
<BigRedS> for about a year 90% of my time seemed to be occupied by arguing with gem to make redmine work
<mungbean> got mine running in no time and has been rock stable for 3 years
<SuperMatt> yeah, took me a while to convince gem I had the right version of mysql installed blah blah blah
<SuperMatt> ruby is remarkably picky
<SuperMatt> or at least gems is
<mgdm> yeah, I don't get on well with gems
<BigRedS> mungbean: have you updated it in those three years? :)
<mungbean> yes , although not for 1 year
<mungbean> somebody else might have updated it this year tho
<mungbean> i now have 3 desks in 3 different offices
<BigRedS> well, at least that's not one desk in three different offices
<mungbean> currently sitting at the warmest, quietest, sunniest one
<BigRedS> I'm working from home today and, fortunately, the cat's in a huff with me
<BigRedS> so I should get some work done
<dwatkins> no need for PawSense, BigRedS?
<MooDoo> chuffing parking ticket....raaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<BigRedS> dwatkins: she's actually completely uninterested in the keyboard
<BigRedS> tends to wedge herself on my lap between me and the desk, and slowly expand, pushing me away from the desk and leaving me with nothing better to do than give her attention
<BigRedS> cunning
<mungbean> hmm. thought i had added my id_rsa key to ssh-add but still asking for password - i have multiple keys
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: I don't have much sympathy for people that complain about parking tickets, though I am aware there can be some circumstances where they're given out in error. care to share?
<SuperMatt> actually, that's not true
<mungbean> SuperMatt: igot one for knocking on my friends door
<mungbean> although waiting 3 mins is allowed
<SuperMatt> I do have sympathy for the poor sods that try to get to their car in time, but are held up for some reason and turn up a minute late with a sticker waiting for them
<SuperMatt> surely waiting implies that you should be in the car?
<mungbean> no
<mungbean> you can be ona yellow line 3 mins and be away from car
<mungbean> i was knocking on the door
<SuperMatt> ok, I see
<mungbean> came back and he gave me one "i've started it now"
<mungbean> didn't realise you could drive off
<SuperMatt> doh
<mungbean> without acepting
<mungbean> i was young, and only owned my car for 30 minutes
<SuperMatt> I've been ticketed twice in my life
<SuperMatt> once for parking on the street outside my house because I was too scared to reverse park in the drive way (I'd passed a couple of days before)
<SuperMatt> and once when I outstayed my welcome by a minute
<MooDoo> I was parked at work and got it as i hadn't displayed a parking permit
<SuperMatt> both of which were might fault
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: you'll be able to contest that one faily easily then
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: motorbike, no place for permits
<SuperMatt> ah of course
<SuperMatt> you should almost certainly be able to contest it
<MooDoo> not parked in a bay.
<BigRedS> Yeah, I've contested those in the past
<BigRedS> but they sometimes ask for a copy of the permit
<BigRedS> so you can't say "I had it and did attach it but it fell off"
<MooDoo> sigh anotherÂ£60 i could without spending
<popey> we got a photo ticket through the post a while back, while I was out at work
<popey> wifey phoned to apologise and ask me not to be cross and that she'd pay it and sorry sorry sorry
<popey> I said it was fine..
<popey> then got home and looked at the picture..
<popey> it was me
<mungbean> lolz
<mungbean> makes you sound like an ogre
<MooDoo> lol
<popey> does doesn't it
<mungbean> don't beat me again
<mungbean> i'll do the dishes for a year
<mungbean> btw i'm being a bit lame with my ssh keys
<popey> thats the only time I've ever been photographed
<popey> i was going the wrong way in a one way bus lane
<popey> \o/
<mungbean> lol
<MartijnVdS> popey: I can disprove that you haven't been photographed on other occasions
<Laney> what in the
<mungbean> i've aded the key to ssh-add but still asks for password
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: pass_word_ or pass_phrase_?
<davmor2> I've only had a couple of ticket, when I've dropped the Mother-in-law off and been in a disabled bay and forgotten to put her badge out
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: also, did you add your public key to remote:~/.ssh/authorized_keys?
<mungbean> passphrase
<MooDoo> what with my blender failing, the microwave failing, the hard drive in my laptop failing and now a parking ticket, i'm not having a good week lol
<SuperMatt> :(
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: i didn't have my pub key on the client
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the server, you mean?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: your pubkey AND privkey are in ~/.ssh/id_*{,.pub} after generating
<mungbean> i'd generated on another machine
<Laney> yay 1kg bag of tea
<Laney> turns out that's quite a lot
<mungbean> and only copied priv key to client
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: never copy privkeys to other machines if you can help it
<mungbean> huh?
<mungbean> they are both my machines
<mungbean> laptop and desktop
<mungbean> u saying i should generate new ones for each pc?
<popey> i would
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can put lots of keys in authorized_keys on the server(s)
<MartijnVdS> That means that if one privkey gets compromised/stolen, you can just remove that one and don't have to go around replacing keys everywhere
<mungbean> as its a laptop i probably should, but its a pain to modify auth keys on the servers
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: vi .ssh/authorized_keys
<popey> ssh-copy-id
<mungbean> i wish there was an irc for scale modellers. cannot findone anywhere. i have so many questions that forums don't really handle well
<popey> surprised there isnt a stackexchange for it
<popey> http://stackexchange.com/sites
<mungbean> i'll try to start one and drum up support
<mungbean> unfortunately the main place to drump up support are on forums...
<mungbean> the airbrush thread on airfixtributeforum is over 60 pages
<mungbean> impossible to glean useful info
<mungbean> it's like trawling xdadevelopers
<diplo> Guys thoughts on this issue before I delve deeper
<diplo> We have around 80 customers, a lot of them run 2-3 servers
<diplo> We want to monitor certain services with Nagios, so we use check_by_ssh
<diplo> Issue we've experienced is that we use different ports to connect directly to different boxes
<popey> mungbean: this is why all forums suck
<diplo> But... know hosts stores this via IPAddress it seems and so connecting to 2 different hosts comes up with a known hosts warning
<mungbean> yes. i like stackexchange as i can use my launchpad openid :D
<jacobw> What's the differnce between a StackExchange and a forum?
<MooDoo> with a forum, it's just questions and answers with stack exchange the more a question is viewed then it puts popular posts at the top
<MooDoo> http://askubuntu.com/
<MooDoo> this is a stack exchange site.
<mungbean> SE is more definitive
<mungbean> forums are rambling and comments add noise
<mungbean> everything has equal weight in a forum (bad)
<popey> for some reason I can't fathom, the ubuntu forums are planning to re-activate having tutorials on the forums rather then having them collaboratively off-site
<popey> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2132649
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<Myrtti> forums.
<MooDoo> and we all know how you feel about forums popey ;)
<ali1234> the reason is quite clearly stated in the thread
<ali1234> since the tutorials were converted to wikis, nobody uses them
<ali1234> this doesn't really surprise me, i mean the ubuntu wiki is probably the only ubuntu site less useful than launchpad answers
<ali1234> most pages in it seem to get moved more often than they get edited. i have no idea why
<ali1234> it's not like there is an index or any kind of organizational hierarchy to it, so the constant moving of pages seem to only break external search engine links
<Myrtti> I like the wikipages more than forums or answers or askubuntu combined
<ali1234> let's suppose i am having a problem with my graphics card and i go to wiki.ubuntu.com
<popey> you wouldnt
<popey> you would go to google.com
<ali1234> i know i wouldn't, because i know the wiki is useless
<popey> exactly
<ali1234> but lets suppose i didn't already know that
<popey> you still wouldn't go to wiki.ubuntu.com
<ali1234> there is nothing at all that even references help or support on the front page
<popey> nobody does
<popey> because thats not what its for
<ali1234> ok, so i go to google and i put in "ubuntu graphics"
<ali1234> the top hit is a link to the wiki... which is completely irrelevant
<popey> do people search for that phrase?
<MartijnVdS> ubuntu nvidia, maybe
<ali1234> what would you suggest that i try to search for?
<popey> ubuntu driver problem maybe
<popey> dunno
<popey> ubuntu video driver
<ali1234> wiki doesn't even appear on the first page for "ubuntu nvidia"
<popey> why should it?
<ali1234> same
<ali1234> because all the helpful content from the forums got moved there
<ali1234> and now nobody can find it
<popey> I'm not keen on it being on the wiki
<popey> I'd rather it was on AU
<popey> pretty sure I said so back when this was debated
<ali1234> AU isn't a forum
<popey> i didnt say it was
<ali1234> neither is the wiki
<ali1234> AU is a place to ask questions, not write tutorials
<popey> "how do i fix my broken video driver on 12.10"
<popey> is a question
<davmor2> ali1234: plus au is way easier to find stuff on
<MartijnVdS> When I google for problems I get the Arch wiki
<MartijnVdS> usually
<popey> the big problem I have with the forum is that tutorials whither and die, and the OP wanders off and they never get corrected
<popey> same can happen with the wiki of course
<MartijnVdS> before the crash, you'd get the Gentoo wiki
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: add Ubuntu rather than linux :)
<popey> but at least other people can edit the wiki or delete the page
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I can translate :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: do Ubuntu fix x rather than Linux fix x and you get more specific Ubuntu info :)
<ali1234> i agree that AU would be better for most of this stuff (except the stuff that would definitely get closed as being too specific) but i also think that even the forums would be better than the wiki
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: yes but the problems I have tend to be too hard for most tutorials anyway :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: "what was the 'ip' command for setting the default route again?"
<MartijnVdS> try googling anything for the 'ip' command, actually
<ali1234> "man ip" top hit
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Ubuntu setting a default route?
<ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/1245/add-default-route-on-boot too localized!
<ali1234> apparently setting a route is "an extraordinarily narrow situation that is not generally applicable to the worldwide audience of the internet"
<popey> ali1234: I agree
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: nah, I want to avoid the 'route' and 'ifconfig' tools because they're supposed to be deprecated :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: also, I don't always use Ubuntu, sometimes I use Debian or OpenWRT :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: shame on you ;)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: openwrt = the bobm
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I have an OpenWRT router on the fibre connection at home :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: openwrt did work fully on my router, however dd-wrt did so that is what I am using
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I bought mine specifically because OpenWRT works on it :)
<MartijnVdS> â¥TP-Link
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I have TP-link
<MooDoo> ow do davmor2
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: it does rock
 * popey hugs his WNDR3700
<davmor2> MooDoo: ay up mucka
 * MartijnVdS has a TP-Link WDR-4300
<MartijnVdS> popey: that's netgear, right?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS:  TP-Link TL-WR841ND v7  it was the cheapest router I could get :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I think open wrt works on it now but may or may not display a gui iirc
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: ah, its gui is a bit big.. I didn't bother with it :)
<popey> yes
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: ah you see I could learn all the tinkering but I just needed a better version of software that was on it basically rebooting once a week was getting tedious :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: I can imagine :)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: you could guarantee it would happen during a meeting too :)
<MartijnVdS> heh, of course!
 * bigcalm grumbles at Halfords - ordered DAB unit on Thursday afternoon with the suggestion that it could be fitted on Monday or Tuesday. I had to phone to find out that it hadn't been delivered to them yet. Next fitting appointment I can attend isn't until Monday next week. </grumble>
<SuperMatt> -tt-
<davmor2> the dd-wrt has only locked up on me once and that was after virgin's network had been down for an age and their hub had issues so I had to reboot that
<bigcalm> open-wrt > dd-wrt :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's opener, or it FEELS opener at least :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it allows me to share my phone's 3g connection via the router's USB port. dd-wrt can't (or couldn't) do that
 * MartijnVdS recompiles OpenWRT manually
<MartijnVdS> I've played with some meshing software on TP-Link 703n boxes as well
<MartijnVdS> (tiny 5x5cm APs with an USB port, an ethernet port, and wifi)
<bigcalm> zigbee?
<MartijnVdS> no, 802.11s
<josh__> hey guys, moving from a mac to an ubuntu machine. all my config that was in bash_profile
<josh__> can that stay there
<josh__> ?
<josh__> it doesnt seem to be loaded by default every time I start a new shell
<josh__> I have to . ~/.bash_profile
<MartijnVdS> josh__: ~/.bash_profile you mean?
<josh__> aye
<MartijnVdS> ls -l ~/.bash_profile ?
<MartijnVdS> what are its permissions?
<MartijnVdS> is there a .profile? maybe that goes first (read 'man bash' about which config files go first)
<josh__> -rw-rw-r--
<MartijnVdS> .bash_profile is read once on login, .bashrc is read for every terminal opened
<MartijnVdS> my .bash_profile is one line: . ~/.bashrc
<MartijnVdS> and everything of note is in ~/.bashrc
<josh__> my ~/.profile points to .bashrc not bash_profile
<josh__> guess thats why...?
<MartijnVdS> .profile is also only read on login
<MartijnVdS> so you put all the settings in .bashrc instead
<MartijnVdS> and stay away from the .profile ones :)
<mungbean> meh, still not received my little cable in the post i need to ddwrt my wifi AP
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: what kind of cable is that?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: USB/Serial?
<mungbean> 	
<mungbean> USB 2.0 to UART TTL 6PIN Connector Module Serial Converter
<MartijnVdS> so.. yes :)
<mungbean> yep
<mungbean> :D
<MartijnVdS> I had one of those from my Arduino hacking days
<mungbean> have an old dlink AP that dserves dddwrting
<mgdm> I have a D-Link DSL router that forgot how to firmware
<mgdm> I keep meaning to fix it, not got around to it yet
<MartijnVdS> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/RoundTuit.jpg
<mgdm> hehe
<Laney> if I go to the bank, can they print me a cheque from my account?
<Laney> I have no cheque book atm
<Darael> Not actually sure they can.  They can order a new chequebook, though.
<Laney> yeah I already have
<popey> yes, they can
<popey> i have had the bank issue cheques for me before
<mungbean> dont they charge though?
<Myrtti> cheques... *shakes head*
<Laney> they want one to open a new isa
<Darael> If it's the same bank, they shouldn't even need to print a cheque.  Set it up in-branch and they should be able to just do any necessary transfer.  Of course, if the ISA is with a different bank that's another story.
<Laney> yeah that would be too easy
<Laney> (and an utterly shit rate)
<Laney> anyway, ta, biking to town now
<Laney> strangely late lunch
<ali1234> i opened a new isa at barclays entirely through the website
<ali1234> didn't even have to wait for approval
<ali1234> also did the same at aldermore
<Laney> no cheque :(
<MooDoo> booo how come?
<Laney> they just don't do it any more
<Laney> never mind, coventry allowed me to open the isa with a Â£0 balance
<mungbean> got 3 ubuntu stickers - suggestions on where to randomly stick them around the office?
<mungbean> toilet seat
<popey> on the underside of someone's mug
<popey> so they dont see it but you do when they drink
<popey> someone did that to me with a windows sticker
<popey> i didnt notice for a month or so
<mungbean> you don't wash up your mug?
<ali1234> men do not wash the bottom of things
<popey> [FACT]
<ali1234> *real men
<popey> i wash the bit the liquid goes in, and my mouth touches
<mungbean> these are the ones with the old logo and "linux for human beings" slogan on
<popey> generally, at work
<mungbean> long,thin
<kvarley> "ia32-libs-multiarch:i386 : Depends: libsane:i386 but it is not going to be installed" any ideas? apt is completely useless
<kvarley> I just want apt to shut up and work, need to install lamp for work
<kvarley> I can't remove ia32 libs
<popey> what are you trying to do?
<kvarley> Ah, it was a broken package
<kvarley> Synaptic to the rescue
<kvarley> Used synaptic to remove the broken package and all is well, thanks anyway popey :)
<mungbean> what kernel does 12.04.2 come with please?
<mungbean> a https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack suggests it comes with a newer kernel than a 12.04.1 upgraded to .2
<neuro> 15:44 <popey> i wash the bit the liquid goes in, and my mouth touches
<neuro> why does this make me think of "it puts the lotion on its skin"
<popey> hah
 * neuro started a new job today
<popey> \o/
<MooDoo> neuro: yay
<diplo> And he's already on IRC :D
<neuro> and one of the things i get to do is boost a load of win and centos aws ec2 instances and replace them with ubuntu
<neuro> diplo: working from home :D
<imexil> Hi, it's been a long time. I was wondering if any of you have tried cloning a SVN repo using `git svn clone URL` in 13.04. Looks it's bottom up :(
<diplo> :)
<MooDoo> congrats neuro :)
<neuro> cheers!
<neuro> i'm thinking some juju should get involved as well
<davmor2> bigcalm: you about
<diplo> neuro: What did you do before ?
<MooDoo> diplo: lug radio ;)
<neuro> same thing i've always done (at least for the last 9 years), linux sysadmin
<neuro> and a mixture of sysadmin and web-dev for the 8 yrs before that
<MartijnVdS> they had the web before that?!
<MooDoo> jono et all should do a 5 year anniversary episode of lug radio :D
<diplo> I want to get back to full time sysadmin, as soon as I'm better health wise it's my top priority, not sure people would employ me atm :)
<neuro> MartijnVdS: i was working for a webdev company in 1996 :)
<neuro> was making web pages for 3 years before that
<MartijnVdS> neuro: with "Work in progress" gifs?
<MartijnVdS> neuro: and <marquee>?
<neuro> i'm ashamed to admit, i occasionally used an "under construction" gif
<neuro> and very very occasionally, marquee
<mgdm> http://divshot.github.com/geo-bootstrap
<MartijnVdS> no <blink> though, right?
<mgdm> WARNING: sunglasses required
<MartijnVdS> "Works best in ANY browser" buttons?
<MartijnVdS> "Proudly created in vi"?
<neuro> yes, and yes once or twice
<SuperMatt> you can mimic blink quite easily
<neuro> http://neuro.me.uk/projects/subclub.co.uk/working/ <- a site I built in 1996, danger contains frames and may be a bit broken in modern browsers (even though i've twiddled the frameset stuff); click on the morphing gif to enter
<diplo> argh!! :)
<diplo> :P
<neuro> it was awesome at the time
<neuro> no way would i build a site looking like that now though
<diplo> I found a load of my old sites a few weeks ago, keep debating putting them up
<diplo> Not sure how well they'll work though
<neuro> and to be fair, the actual design was by one of the sub club guys, i basically just htmlised the thing from their (on-paper) designs
<diplo> worksite flashing around is umm nice heheh
<MooDoo> frames wow :)
<neuro> diplo: that's like 20 layers in photoshop exported out as a gif :)
<neuro> MooDoo: yeah, i know :P
<dwatkins> so does everyone use <div> tags now instead of frames?
<dwatkins> I should probably get with the program...
<neuro> those were the days when i'd just started using apache, and we had to seriously think about browsers that couldn't talk HTTP/1.1 and see the vhosts :P
<neuro> i stopped using frames when i figured out how to do SSIs
<dwatkins> simpler times...
<neuro> i know
<neuro> when you could host people's websites on a 486 running slackware and get away with it ...
<neuro> and it really was a dark art back then
<neuro> none of this "oh i'll just sign up with godaddy/dreamhost/whoever and have a website running in 5 minutes"
<neuro> or "oh, i'll just spin up an ec2 instance and have a server running in 60 seconds"
<diplo> heh, right guys.. home time. Catch you all later :)
 * dwatkins spits at the mention of godaddy
<MooDoo> not a fan ?
<SuperMatt> who is?
<Myrtti> +1
<MooDoo> i've used them in the past, never had problems with them.....
<SuperMatt> their advertising is so overtly sexist it is obscene
<Azelphur> MooDoo: besides the whole teaming up to make laws that would destroy the internet
<Azelphur> and that ^ :P
<Myrtti> I'd rather chew my arm off than give them business, they might thing their advertising in USA is something that I'd approve
<SuperMatt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Daddy#Controversies < this isn't a short list at all
<MooDoo> oh fair enough lol
<dwatkins> yeah, the fact the guy has an elephant's foot as an umbrella stand is enough to make me never want to use their services, let alone how utterly hideous the website is.
<MooDoo> noted
<dwatkins> I should probably find out about using sc2
<dwatkins> ec2 even
<dwatkins> is there a free offering you can just use for testing, neuro?
<ali1234> there is
<neuro> yeah, new customers can use the "t1.micro" sized instance to mess around with
<neuro> it's free for a year iirc
<ali1234> but it is horrifically limited
 * MartijnVdS is trying Bytemark's new "big v" stuff
<neuro> http://aws.amazon.com/free/
<SuperMatt> I'm using a small instance these days
<ali1234> also you have to give them your credit card and they will auto bill you after the year
<SuperMatt> it's good for running my own email server, running my own owncloud server, running my ttrss server, etc
<SuperMatt> a single mircoinstance isn't quite up to snuff for all that
<SuperMatt> http://uk.godaddy.com/ <- if you flick through the banner at the top, there isn't a single guy on there
<SuperMatt> ignore what's below the fold, we all know that's not important
<MooDoo> isnt that just marketing though?
<SuperMatt> yes, but I would expect some kind of representation for a company which is supposed to be for everyone
<MooDoo> you're more likely to sign up for something if there is a picture of a lady or if the email address is sue@ or becky@
<SuperMatt> their advertising as always been extremely sexist
<MartijnVdS> oops @ MusicBrainz
<MartijnVdS> Caught exception in MusicBrainz::Server::Controller::ReleaseEditor::Add->add "DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR:  could not access file "/usr/local/postgres-9.0.3/lib/pending.so": No such file or directory at lib/Sql.pm line 414,  line 15.
<MooDoo> I can't see how thats sexist really or I might be missing something
<dwatkins> thanks neuro
<neuro> np
<ali1234> it's true though, they are famous for their sexist advertising
<SuperMatt> I'm not saying that specifically is sexist, but other adverts of their own have been. put in to context, and those pictures can be pretty damning
<popey> http://isouyashipping.com/
<ali1234> http://isnamecoinworking.bit/
<ali1234> oops
<ali1234> http://isnamecoinworkingornot.bit/
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: apparently not
<SuperMatt> what's a namecoin?
 * ali1234 registers the shorter version too
<ali1234> a distributed DNS system
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I know, but if it doesn't hook into normal DNS at some point it's a bit pointless, isn't it?
<ali1234> it does
<MartijnVdS> doesn't resolve for me..
<ali1234> then you're using the wrong nameserver
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I'm using my isp's resolver
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> who does that in 2013?
<MartijnVdS> everyone?
<ali1234> my ISP's DNS server forces half my connections through their censorship proxy
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Not allowed in .nl :)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: also, I _work_ for my ISP, this makes me trust the admins more ;)
<MartijnVdS> I think they're trying to get it to do DNSSEC validation without breaking it too much for domains with broken sigs or something
<Darael> MartijnVdS: That's easy.  Complain loudly at domains with broken sigs until they fix it :-Ã¾
<sebsebseb> hi
<MartijnVdS> Darael: that's their general strategy, yes
<mungbean> whats the best way to run 3.5 kernel in precise?
<mungbean> most supported
<mungbean>  06MAR and 04APR (13 minutes, 80 texts, 121 MB UK mobile internet) we'd recommend that the best plan for April could be the Â£5 Hokey Cokey.
<mungbean> lol. not the biggest phone user
 * AlanBell just made a mysql query that used to take 5614 seconds a bit quicker. Now completes in 12 seconds.
 * Darael raises an eyebrow
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-11
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> moo!
<MooDoo> :)
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> hah AlanBell, just saw your myysql query comment, bad code or mounted the db's in memory now ?
<BigRedS> indexes!
<MooDoo> bless you ;)
<MartijnVdS> PostgreSQL ;)
<AlanBell> diplo: changing the query to not have subqueries in it
<AlanBell> so it can use the indexes as far as I can tell
<AlanBell> http://pastebin.com/GADK2DQk is what it looked like
<AlanBell> the problem was the two bits like this: (SELECT vtiger_account.* FROM vtiger_account INNER JOIN vtiger_crmentity ON vtiger_crmentity.crmid=vtiger_account.accountid AND vtiger_crmentity.deleted=0) AS vtiger_account
<AlanBell> which just replaces vtiger_account in the query with the content of vtiger_account without deleted items in it, I flattened this bit out so it isn't a subquery
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mungbean> guys, is anyone runnign 3.5 kernel on 12.04?
<MartijnVdS> Linux wolk 3.5.0-26-generic #42~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Mon Mar 11 22:17:58 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
<MartijnVdS> Apparently, I am 8-)
<BigRedS> I'm running 3.5 on 12.10 if that helps
<mungbean> how did you do it MartijnVdS ?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: I installed 12.04.2 :)
<mungbean> there's an askubuntu page but seems to be missing a certain detail
<mungbean> yeah, i upgraded to 12.04.2 so no new kernel
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: there's a way.. let me find it for you
<mungbean> merci
<MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
<mungbean> sudo apt-get install linux-generic-lts-quantal xserver-xorg-lts-quantal
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<mungbean> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
<mungbean> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
<mungbean> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
<mungbean> or been moved out of Incoming.
<bigcalm> My Bytemark VPS is running 12.04.2 but the kernel is stuck at 3.2 I think because they use KVM
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: nah, it's because you haven't upgraded to BigV yet :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://bigv.io/ = bytemark's new vps platform
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: you think I have money for BigV?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: (I switched last weekend)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: A single VM on BigV costs the same as on the regular platform :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: oh, I actually never looked at the prices :D
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you might need to enable the "updates" repository in sources.list
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: but I'm not sure
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: what was the move like?
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: do they do everything for you and you get to keep your current IP address?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no, and no
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I made a new VM, rsync'ed /home, installed apache (and copied the config over)
<bigcalm> Ug
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: then fixed DNS and asked them to disable the old VM
<MartijnVdS> took me about an hour
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: had a problem with lib-mesa-glx
<mungbean> have to install a quantal version
<mungbean> if you don't hear from my, it's cos my machine is shagged
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: that's not in the LTS stack is it?
<MooDoo> mungbean: shagged, is that a technical term ;)
<mungbean> udo apt-get install   libgl1-mesa-glx-lts-quantal
<mungbean> is required
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: thanks for the pointer, I'll consider it when I don't have a head full of bees
<mungbean> http://i.eho.st/pgnxf8lp.gif
<mungbean> relevant bigcalm
<bigcalm> mungbean: love that gif
<mungbean> recommended viewing 10x per month
<bigcalm> And Nicholas Cage version of Wicker Man
<mungbean> someone put a lot of work in, and it paid off
<jacobw> Morning
<mungbean> does df
<mungbean> df
<mungbean> woops sorry
<mungbean> ok now on 3.5
<mungbean> scary as i saw loads of important libraries removed ..then i noticed they were 9386 ones
<mungbean> i386
<mungbean> suspend now works again \o/
<JamesTait> Good morning, and happy Barbershop Quartet Day! http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9DE5C985C6ECE35B
<bigcalm> Silly: http://rrrrrrrroll.tumblr.com/
<j0sh_> hey guys, using my ssh config like Host * !spring.mydomain.net with ProxyCommand to as I want to proxy all my ssh connections through a gateway
<j0sh_> but i dont want to proxy any ssh connections to github
<j0sh_> how could I do this?
<j0sh_> Host * "!spring.mydomain.net,*.github.com"
<j0sh_> doesnt work
<directhex> JamesTait, have a barbershop quartet, whilst still remaining relevant to my interests as a gamer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4coaEB4tabU
<MartijnVdS> j0sh_: define *.github.com and "spring.mydomain.net" first
<MartijnVdS> then * won't match them
<j0sh_> I thought that...but it does
<j0sh_> I have put github above * in myconfig
<j0sh_> but * still seems to get applied
<SuperMatt> ok, silly question... is there a way I can make apt forget what's marked for upgrade?
<JamesTait> directhex, I happen to really like that song, too. :)
<popey> morning
 * popey has moved to mother in laws house today, vm connection has been down since 2am, projected fixed by 4pm
<SuperMatt> I'm not talking about holding, just meaning that I have to force an update first
<SuperMatt> I say force, I mean perform
<bigcalm> popey: it's always a 4pm projection, just the day varies. Hope they sort themselves out soon
<bigcalm> popey: same router as me, you could use your phone's 3g connection and share it across your LAN :)
<popey> No, i wouldn't do that
<popey> it would cost me very quickly
<mungbean> i hope you took flowers
<popey> oh, and fun last night while debugging stuff. my disk filled up - 55GB log file in /var/log
<popey> that was _fun_
<SuperMatt> /o\
<mungbean> anyone know why youtube-dl might refuse to download a video that is watchable on youtube?
<cliftonts> Hi everyone. I've got a bit of a challenge for you all.  I'm running 13.04 and unity has just crashed and I'm in the middle of running something I can't quit.
<jacobw> cliftonts: don't quit it ;)
<cliftonts> Does anyone know of any gui I could install and switch to without logging out?
<cliftonts> gnome shell won't let me, it comes up with some sort of authentication error
<popey> you can restart unity
<popey> alt-f2, unity, enter
<cliftonts> unity just seg faults
<popey> well thats a bit of a worry
<cliftonts> I can't alt-f2 without unity though
<popey> we should fix that
<popey> ctrl+alt+t should open a terminal
<popey> you're right, sorry
<AlanBell> ctrl+alt+f1 login, unity
<cliftonts> Bare in mind I have something running in a terminal window. I don't want to lose 15+ hours work
<popey> open another terminal
<popey> and leave that one running
<cliftonts> AlanBell, unity is not in a workable state
<popey> I'd like to see why its not working
<popey> I have a suspicion why
<popey> if you have pastebinit installed, can you pastebin your ~/.xsession-errors
<cliftonts> popey: I can use one window at a time, can't Alt-Tab. Yes I can load a second terminal and had to do so in order to load xchat
<popey> pastebinit .xsession-errors
<popey> like that
<popey> you can move windows about using alt+mouse
<mungbean> ah, fixed my own problem with youtube-dl -U
<cliftonts> popey, I have no window management capability at all, without quitting xchat you guys is all I've got
<popey> also, in a new terminal window, run "compiz --replace --debug ccp &"
<popey> cliftonts: ctrl+alt+t should bring a new window up on top of xchat
<cliftonts> popey: I could do that, but have no real way to get the output of it to you
<popey> yes, you do. pastebinit
<popey> compiz --replace --debug ccp | pastebinit
<cliftonts> what is pastebinit? It didn't seem to do anything. And now I have the terminal window that owns xchat stuck in my way
<popey> you should be able to move windows about by holding alt, clicking on them and moving them?
<cliftonts> nope
<bigcalm> I <3 alt moving. Wish all OSes did that
<popey> ok, you can do as AlanBell suggests...
<popey> ctrl+alt+F1, to move to the first tty, login..
<popey> then sudo apt-get install pastebinit
<popey> then you can compiz --replace --debug ccp | pastebinit
<cliftonts> I have installed it and this is the output
<cliftonts> You are trying to send an empty document, exiting.
<popey> so we can see what's causing compiz / unity to fail to load
<popey> hmm, okay
<popey> try without the | pastebinit
<popey> and see what errors you see
<popey> any errors about libraries or somesuch
<cliftonts> I'm looking at them now, they came up on screen anyway
<popey> excellent
<cliftonts> compiz (core) - Debug: dlopen failed: /home/gareth/.compiz-1/plugins/libunityshell.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<popey> thats cool
<popey> the next line?
<cliftonts> compiz (core) - Debug: Trying to load unityshell from: /usr/lib/compiz/libunityshell.so
<popey> ok, did that work or is the next line an error?
<cliftonts> compiz (core) - Debug: dlopen failed: /usr/lib/libunity-core-6.0.so.5: undefined symbol: unity_protocol_music_preview_pause_uri
<popey> excellent!
<popey> I know the fix for this
<cliftonts> that's a start lol
<popey> ok, in the terminal do this:-
<cliftonts> is it something I can do with window decorations tied behind my back?
<popey> sudo apt-get update
<popey> yes
<cliftonts> updating
<popey> sudo apt-get install libunity9/raring
<popey> see if that tries to downgrade or otherwise change the version of libunity9 you have installed
<cliftonts> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<popey> apt-cache policy libunity9
<popey> what version is next to "Installed" ?
<cliftonts> Selected version '6.90.2daily13.04.05-0ubuntu1' (Ubuntu:13.04/raring [amd64]) for 'libunity9'
<popey> thats not the output I would expect from apt-cache policy libunity9
<cliftonts> sorry, my mistake
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<cliftonts> Installed: 6.90.2daily13.04.05-0ubuntu1
<popey>   Installed: 6.90.2daily13.04.05-0ubuntu1
<popey> same here..
<popey> ok
<popey> sudo apt-get install --fix-policy
<cliftonts> I'm dying of man flu and it's starting to show
<popey> ^^ do that
<popey> sudo apt-get install lemsip
<cliftonts> cryptsetup ecryptfs-utils keyutils libatm1 libecryptfs0 python-serial
<cliftonts> being installed
<popey> thats not much
<popey> apt-cache policy unity
<cliftonts> no, all looks very unrelated
<popey> what version is installed?
<popey>   Installed: 7.0.0daily13.04.10-0ubuntu1
<cliftonts> Installed: 7.0.0daily13.04.10-0ubuntu1
<cliftonts> hmm
<popey> hmm
<popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<popey> anything change?
<cliftonts> already tried that
<popey> ok, so, lets try the next thing
<cliftonts> interestingly compiz --replace is no longer crashing, but it's stopped at loading unityshell
<popey> did you by any chance enable the experimental ppa?
<cliftonts> until I pushed a button
<cliftonts> yes but that ppa just broke my dash completely so I got bored with looking at an empty page and removed it. I figured it would either fix it, or break it totally
<cliftonts> I now know the answer
<popey> ah good
<popey> dpkg -l | grep experimental.certified
<cliftonts> I figured I could just hop to gnome shell if that happened, I was wrong
<popey> that will list packages which came from that ppa
<cliftonts> a ha!
<cliftonts> ii  libunity-protocol-private0:amd64                6.91.9daily13.04.09ubuntu.unity.experimental.certified-0ubuntu1 amd64
<bigcalm> Goodness compiz is greedy. Never dipping below 73% CPU
<popey> bingo
<cliftonts> ii  unity-scope-gdocs                               0.8daily13.04.09ubuntu.unity.experimental.certified-0ubuntu1    all
<popey> sudo apt-get install libunity-protocol-private0/raring
<cliftonts> y
<ali1234> bigcalm: rebooting usually fixes that for me
<popey> or sudo apt-get install libunity-protocol-private0=6.90.2daily13.04.05-0ubuntu1
<cliftonts> ali1234: rebooting wouldn't help the very important program I have been running for 15 hours
<cliftonts> And we have lift off!!
<ali1234> well another way to fix it is to revert to compiz 0.8
<bigcalm> ali1234: with an i7 I don't really notice it much. Just the fan noise can be annoying
<ali1234> if you need to reboot less often than twice a day that is
<popey> cliftonts: once you remove all the experimental stuff you should be able to run unity and get a desktop back
<cliftonts> Thanks popey. It would've been a major headache losing access to my laptop for days
<popey> np
<mungbean> bigcalm: i only get those issues with compiz. elementary/gala for example doesn't have that problem and stil has swishy effects
<cliftonts> I've even got the dash back now. I don't need to have 3 million things pinned to the launcher any more!
<ali1234> oh btw for future reference
<ali1234> sudo apt-get install metacity gnome-panel
<ali1234> killall -KILL unity && metacity &
<cliftonts> Right then. I'm off to get some actual work done.
<ali1234> oh and gnome-panel
<cliftonts> gnome panel? that would've been an idea. Thanks ali
<cliftonts> bye all
<ali1234> if the display is completely unresponsive then you can run DISPLAY=:0 metacity && gnome-panel & from vt
<bigcalm> 2nd time Spotify has frozen this morning. I don't think it likes compiz (or the other way around). Reboot time :(
<ali1234> spotify freezes because it doesn't like pulseaudio
<ali1234> compiz makes it shrink to a 10x10 window 1000 pixels past the right edge of the display
<bigcalm> Takes out all mouse input. Only using alt to get to the hud can I type in 'exit' and get things going again
<popey> not seen that with spotify
<ali1234> well thats a new one on me too
<bigcalm> I'm special :)
<bigcalm> 11am already? Ug
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> popey: so no virgin for you today then :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeap
<davmor2> bigcalm: I make a good time gauge I guess :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: ah, no. I just saw @big_ben_clock's tweet
<bigcalm> Yes, I'm still following the clock
<popey> davmor2: yeah, moved to inlaws house, they have vm too
<bigcalm> davmor2: but good morning to you in any case
<MooDoo> mornig davmor2
<bigcalm> gwibber wakes up and I suddenly get a slew of OSD spam
<Laney> one day I'll remember to use my tea strainer and not drink a cup full of bits
<bigcalm> Laney: tea infusers ftw
<Laney> yeah I have one of those somewhere
<Laney> it's fiddly though, especially to top the pot up
 * bigcalm skips off to make a cup of lapsang souchong
<bigcalm> Ah, not really meant for pots
<bigcalm> Hayley and me are a proper couple at last. We recently bought a tea cosy
<Laney> i have a big ball thingy that you can put in there
<Laney> fishing it out and adding more tea when it's wet though, nah thanks
<Laney> my dad got me a tea cosy for my birthday last year :3
<bigcalm> Never thought of adding more tea to an existing brew
<bigcalm> Aww, you've a good dad there :)
<Laney> yeah, extra spoon will get you another pot
 * bigcalm remembers to rinse out the sulphuric acid from the kettle this time
<Laney> O_O
<mungbean> tasty
<bigcalm> Main ingredient of descaler
<davmor2> popey: personal question, so feel free to sad the second word is off,  Why would move to the inlaws?
<popey> my internet connection is down
<popey> theirs isnt
<davmor2> popey: ah sorry I thought you meant you had moved there and their vm was down
<Myrtti> bigcalm: vinegar. I buy it in big containers (10l) from asian shop
<Myrtti> use as fabric conditioner for clothes that shouldnt be washed with normal one and kitchen/bathroom disinfectant/cleaner/delimescale
<mungbean> you wash clothes in vinegar?
<popey> davmor2: no because that would be silly, and you know I'm not silly â»
<Myrtti> of course I dont. nobody washes their clothes in fabric conditioner either
<MooDoo> popey: not silly?  did you want me to dig out the extreame ironing photo ;)
<davmor2> popey: I've seen you in a Hawaiian shirt and you have the nerve to say that :P
<popey> noted
<Myrtti> usually fabric conditioner is added to the water of the last rinse cycle of a wash
<mungbean> conditioner is the last thing that gets put on the clothes though innit?
<mungbean> so vinegar would be bit stinky
<Myrtti> it evaporates.
<popey> i dont think she puts a full litre in to the wash â»
<mungbean> i would be paranoid as vingar and BO have similar smell
<Myrtti> doesnt leave any scent in the clothes. and the amounts are small.
<Myrtti> not really
<Myrtti> aw I forgot I promised Id go to.get a parcel from the post office... wonder where the cycle tyre pump is
<Laney> you can borrow mine
<Myrtti> dsample ordered a BusPirate
<mardi> Thanks for the keyboard link popey - sadly a little pricey for an impulse purchase today - Rod
<popey> hey mardi
<popey> yeah, company bought mine
<mardi> zero chance mine would for me
<popey> (well, the company being the one I owned)
<mardi> although my 1995 one, was company supplied - guess times change
<mardi> I'm going to have a real problem,  the day you can no longer get laptop/keyboards with TrackPoint
<popey> ditto, hence buying 3 â»
<mungbean> what's trackpoint? nipple mouse?
<popey> yes
<popey> this does make it easier when i come to renew laptop
<mardi> I'm banking on me skipping over the whole trackpad fad and going straight to full touch/speech
<mungbean> :-|
<popey> oh there's another option for model m lovers
<popey> unicomp do a model-m like with a trackpoint
<popey> http://www.pckeyboard.com/
<popey> might get one when I'm out there at the end of the month
<mardi> Gave away my old M recently, now loving the DAS
<mardi> my spacesaver is for KVM/Servers - looking like your version is a little bigger than I would like
<mardi> My M4 spacesaver . http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/10943/subcatid/0/id/236283
<popey> thats nice
<popey> the one thing i hate about tp keyboards is the back/forward buttons above left/right cursors
<popey> quite insane
<BigRedS> I *love* that
<mardi> I'm really not liking the more recent Lenovo layout - http://techreport.com/r.x/2012_4_23_Future_ThinkPads_may_all_have_chiclet_keys/new-kbd.jpg
 * mardi hates change
<directhex> honestly, the key action is good on recent lenovo keyboards
<mungbean> why do people hate chiclet keys?
<popey> the fact it still has a middle mouse button is good
<directhex> mungbean, because they're often dreadful
<mungbean> they seem more hygeininc
<BigRedS> I distrust them, but I've also never used thrm
<popey> their new ones don't have middle button
<directhex> razer's chiclet keyboard is absolute bong
<directhex> it's a Â£125 piece of poo
<mungbean> i like the idea of backlit keyboards
<popey> i moaned at lenovo and they told me the touchpad had multiple buttons
<popey> lies
<BigRedS> but I dislike the idea of a lack of nipple or middle mouse button. I don't get along with trackpads
<directhex> backlit is a must for me.
<BigRedS> nah, thinklight!
<directhex> thinklight is also bong
<directhex> it's a moronic thing that only works at one exact screen tilt angle
<directhex> thank $deity recent lenovo keyboards are backlit
<directhex> i bought some new keyboards for the office yesterday from pc world
<ali1234> "bong"
<directhex> Â£60 a piece
<ali1234> wat
<mungbean> what do they do
<mungbean> builtin trackpad?
<popey> are they made of unobtanium?
<directhex> mechanical
<popey> steampubk?
<directhex> nothing but cherry mx black switches. no membrane stuff
<popey> s/b/n/
<directhex> mechanical keyboards are the "in" thing in gamer keyboards these days. curiously enough, coming from the model m legacy
<directhex> but without, y'know, being terrible keyboards
<ali1234> model m would be good if it wasn;t so LOUD
<ali1234> and also massive but i have a miniature one
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm completely over model ms with my Â£18 cherry
<BigRedS> it's perfectly nice to type on and I can afford to have one at each computer
<mungbean> keyboard pr0n is overatted
<BigRedS> I'm not sure if it's a good keyboard or I've just stopped caring
<directhex> model m gets very confused by things like "typing". the key action is something people still like, but the actual matrix controller on a model m is dreadful
<directhex> really dreadful
<ali1234> model m is too mainstream these days
<directhex> try the fox test on a model m
<mungbean> i only notice terrible keyboards and painful ones
<ali1234> yeah mine drops 's' 50% of the time and inserts 2 of them 25% of the time
<ali1234> however i think this is because the capacitors inside it are dying
<directhex> easy test for the quality of a keyboard's matrix scan and multiplexing: hold down both shift keys, and type the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
<directhex> it's not a speed test, you can type it slowly
<directhex> but on most keyboards, some keys will be missed
<mungbean> worst kb i ever used in the eee pc 701
<mungbean> often doesn't detect keypresses
<directhex> because the keyboard scan matrix isn't physically cpable of reading both shift keys, plus some number of other keys, at once. e.g. on this lenovo, it can't do X
<BigRedS> directhex: this does fairly badly at that, but has been fine everywhere else
<directhex> HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG
<mungbean> i remember my acorn electron had a max mutplie key press
<BigRedS> HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG
<mungbean> i thought things had moved on
<directhex> mungbean, yes and no.
<BigRedS> hah, identical
<bigcalm> HE QUIK BRON FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG
<BigRedS> oh, you bought some cherries, this is a cherry
<directhex> mungbean, there's two things - a maximum number of simultaneous keypresses possible when using usb (even usb3), which is around 10 keys iirc
<directhex> mungbean, and the keyboard scan matrix determines which specific combinations of keys are possible or not
<ali1234> i lol at all your terrible keyboards
<JamesTait> TEQUICKBRONOXUMSOVERTEAZYOG
<directhex> BigRedS, almost all mechanical keyboards use cherry switches. the ones i bought were steelseries 6Gv2
<directhex> which are mostly great, but gnome shell doesn't like them much
<ali1234> why not?
<BigRedS> gnome shell seems happy with mine
<directhex> they don't have a left windows key. gnome shell by default only shows the launcher overlay thing on the left windows key. you can change it to the right windows key, but then you can't launch it with your laptop's left windows key
<directhex> basically gnome shell only works with ONE launcher key, and dies if you have more than one
<directhex> even if you change your keyboard map so the right windows key emits a left key scancode
<BigRedS> oh! it doesn't like steelseries kbs. I'll get some coffee..
<directhex> well, it doesn't like *any* right windows key. it just so happens that steelseries keyboards only have right, not left
<ali1234> oh yeah that
<directhex> this is primarily a failing of gnome shell, not of the keyboard
<ali1234> heh, what isn't?
<ali1234> what's the fastest way to compare strings against a wordlist in python?
<popey> haha http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-microsoft-creative-director-adam-orth-no-longer-with-microsoft
<directhex> i find that whole incident very stupid
<popey> well indeed
<mungbean> politics
<ali1234> "#dealtwithit"
<bigcalm> Doesn't everybody have their TVs and games consoles on remote power switches to save energy?
<popey> i do now
<popey> not my pvr tho â»
<popey> less for saving energy for me, more convenience
<bigcalm> Only thing that is "always on" in the sitting room is the V+ box
<popey> same here
 * SuperMatt spies popey's new similie
<bigcalm> Actually have the V+ box on a UPS :D
<ali1234> wut
<SuperMatt> how are you remembering all the commands for these things?
<ali1234> they mean "always on the internet"
<ali1234> not "always powered on"
<popey> yes they do
<bigcalm> If it's switched off at the mains, it's not on the internet
<popey> he means during gaming
<ali1234> you also can't play on it
<popey> i.e. start game, it wants connection before starting
<popey> see Simcity
<bigcalm> Poo
<popey> and minecraft
<popey> the allegation being that the next xbox will enforce this
<bigcalm> Silly
<popey> works for much of steam tho
<MartijnVdS> some blu-rays won't play without internet already
<popey> wat
<mungbean> wow
<popey> and in 10 years when their auth servers are down?
<mungbean> its bad enough having to watch a piracy ad on a dvd you have BOUGHT
<popey> SuperMatt: i have macros that do it
<SuperMatt> sneaky
<mungbean> i'm still looking for a way to read zinio magazines outside the application
<mungbean> i hate that its the popular one with lots of magz and you won't be able to keep them
<SuperMatt> I don't mind requiring online auth for a game, as long as when the auth servers are taken down a patch is released to remove all auth
<mungbean> this is EA
<ali1234> typically that patch is released within a couple of days of the game being released
<SuperMatt> very true
<SuperMatt> worst company of the year
<popey> \o/ lunchtime
<ali1234> lol is anyone listening to radio 4?
<ali1234> "it was the size of a 30cm ruler"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: so.. about 30cm?
<mungbean> can blackberry playbooks run android
<davmor2> THE QUICK BROWN FO JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: THE LAZY DAWG?
<davmor2> I have a Microsft Keyboard
<SuperMatt> I will never give up on cherry
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: have you tried turning off USB auto-powersave?
<SuperMatt> their keyboards are the best
<davmor2> Nope
<SuperMatt> http://www.cherry.de/pictures/produkt/gal_2000_G86-22000_Expert_2_Aufs.jpg this is the one I have at home
<SuperMatt> https://www.betamedia.com.au/main/product_images/uploaded_images/cherry-infinity-keyboard.jpg and this one at work
<SuperMatt> the latter is nice and soft, which is great for work :)
<ali1234> so in reference to my previous question, "{}.has_key(x)" is about 1 million times faster than "x in []"
<ali1234> ah right i see. what i really want to do is put all the words in a set
<ali1234> "x in set()" is as fast as the dictionary
<mardi> Work Cherry looks very nice SuperMatt - does it work as good as it looks?
<mungbean> 13.04 is looking very uneventful - are there any exciting improvements?
<bigcalm> I'm guessing graphic driver support :)
<bigcalm> Well, hoping more than guessing
<SuperMatt> mardi: yes it does :)
<SuperMatt> mungbean: I think most of it is under the hood
<SuperMatt> it's considerably faster, and way more stable that previous releases
<BigRedS> Oooh, mine was ridiculously crash-happy in january
<SuperMatt> I've found it to be stable since about november
<BigRedS> hmm. Might give it another go
<bigcalm> Variety background changer has just put Emma Watson on my screen. It's rather distracting
<bigcalm> LUNCH!
<jacobw> Yes, lunch.
<MartijnVdS> Lunge!
<bigcalm> Huh. So using a client's VPN kicks me off real internet
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: don't let it set the default route
<mungbean> +1
<popey> bug 1167906
<lubotu3> bug 1167906 in friends-app (Ubuntu) "Friends triggers numerous past tweets as notifications in reverse order" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167906
<popey> is that what you got AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> bug #1166052
<lubotu3> bug 1166052 in friends-app (Ubuntu) "notifies on startup of every tweet ever directed at you" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1166052
<AlanBell> yes
<popey> did it go backwards?
<AlanBell> yes, to 2009
 * popey marks dupe
<popey> mine didnt go back that far
<popey> only a few months
<AlanBell> I think it was that far, it was very old some of it
<AlanBell> "OK, so I don't get the point of microblogging with Identi.ca, so I wonder if Twitter will make more sense to me 140 characters just seems so" < my first tweet
<shauno> it's probably a real number based on an api ceiling, and you're simply not as famous as popey :p
<Myrtti> as far as I remember it was meant to fit an sms, and possibly the remaining letters for sending a location.
<mungbean> AlanBell: used to have that error in gwibber years ago
<mungbean> gwibber is the primary app on ubuntu i can confidently say sucks
<AlanBell> friends-app appears to be making all the same errors as gwibber
<mungbean> because they just did mv gwibber friends?
<popey> no, its a rewrite
<mungbean> all twitter apps are doomed to fail if twitter don't allow api calls
<mungbean> ^lots of
<mungbean> i remember when gwibber would only publish 30% of stuff
<AlanBell> twitter do allow API calls, but you get maxed out on the number of users your app is allowed to have, if you have non-editable API keys
<mungbean> cos fb was throttling them
<mungbean> so basically if you use a twitter app, make sure its not successful
<AlanBell> however, if you write an app, and tell users to register their own app keys then there is no limit at all
<mungbean> ah ok
<mungbean> could be an opitonal extra
<ali1234> yes there is
<popey> "wondering if it was wise to sign up to twitter again" was my first tweet after I signed up then closed then re-signed up again
<mungbean> i check twitter once a day, and thats on my phone when the train is late or i'm early at the station
<AlanBell> and you can use the streaming API for fast twitterness, but friends-app apears to be a poll and store thing like gwibber
<ali1234> you can only pull about 5000 user profiles per hour
<AlanBell> how does that matter?
<ali1234> i dunno, how does anything on twitter matter ever?
<AlanBell> fair point
<marxjohnson> Best conversation ever.
<Myrtti> for me Twitter discussions are so inane I've not participated in anything there for a year.
<ali1234> actually pulling large numbers of user profiles is useful for finding out things such as "hulk hogan follows someone who follows john cleese who follows someone who follows popey"
<ali1234> (which is a true fact)
<mungbean> even direct messages on twitter are limited in characters
<mungbean> my technology phobic friend uses twitter for email
<AlanBell> they also fit in an SMS
<mungbean> makes it tricky
<ali1234> that's the point...
<AlanBell> it is for people who are not literate enough for blogging
<ali1234> it was originally supposed to be a SMS mailing list type service
<mungbean> people who then forget that if they publish all their thougts , then other people might read them
<Knightwise> hey everyone
<Knightwise> small question , anyone know anything about owncloud ?
<marxjohnson> I'm running it on my Microserver
<Knightwise> marxjohnson: I just set one up using turnkey linux , but the thing is , i would like to move the https port from 443 to 1443
<Knightwise> because my isp blocks all ports below 1024
<marxjohnson> You'll need to fiddle with the apache config
<Knightwise> ok , i got that open (the turnkey install comes with webmin too)
<Knightwise> so when I look at the virtual servers I see one for owncloud running on port 433
<Knightwise> i changed that to 4433
<Knightwise> (thats the port I would like to use)
<Knightwise> I restarded apache but it doesnt seem to work
<marxjohnson> Is the turnkey appliance ubuntu-based?
<Knightwise> even if I access it van http://ip.address.of.the.machine:4433
<Knightwise> debian based
<marxjohnson> ok, open /etc/apache2/apache.conf and search for "Listen"
<Knightwise> standby
<Knightwise> i got apache2.conf
<Knightwise> i guess thats the same
<marxjohnson> oops yeah that's what I meant :)
<BigRedS> shouldn't it be in ports.conf?
<MartijnVdS> probably
<BigRedS> or ports
<MartijnVdS> it works in apache.conf, but that includes port.conf
<MartijnVdS> ports.conf?
<Knightwise> yep , cuz there is no listen in apache2.conf
<BigRedS>  /et<tab>apa<tab>por<tab>
<MartijnVdS> so it's cleaner to do in ports.conf
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: yes, that one :)
<Knightwise> hold on i'll check ports.conf
<Knightwise> got it
<marxjohnson> yep it'll be ports.conf
<Knightwise> still plenty of references to 443 here
<marxjohnson> yeah change them to the port you want
<Knightwise> i see listen 443 , do i change that one ?
<marxjohnson> yep
<BigRedS> you can see what the server thinks it's doing by running   apache2 -S
<BigRedS> that parses the config, rather than asking the daemon, so wont tell you what to revert config to or anything
<Knightwise> bad user name
<BigRedS> export APACHE_RUN_USER=www-data; export APACHE_RUN_GROUP=www-data;
<Knightwise> i'll restart apache first
<BigRedS> stick that in /root/.bashrc or something
<bigcalm> o.O
<Knightwise> ok , i changed the ports
<Knightwise> (also rebooted the machine)
<Knightwise> ok the http link works
<Knightwise> https does not
<Knightwise> got it !
<Knightwise> I needed to add an extra line below the listen command
<ali1234> how can i override dns server for a single process?
<Knightwise> in ports.conf i just added 'Listen 4433'
<kvarley> Can anybody think of a way to do video chat over my LAN?
<AlanBell> kvarley: conversat.io
<BigRedS> kvarley: you'll also need to change the <VirtualHost> line if there is one
<kvarley> AlanBell: Is this site open source?
<AlanBell> yes
<kvarley> AlanBell: This channel's topic is right :)
<popey> http://conversat.io/ubuntu
<popey> \o/ join us :D
<popey> where us = me
<SuperMatt> ok, serious question: now that Wubi has been dropped, obviously we want users to have a simple way of testing Ubuntu. Would it be wise to start suggesting that people try it in Virtualbox, and how hard would be it for the installer to maybe detect if it's running in virtual box, and install/enable the guest additions? Could we maybe start providing an iso or vbox file specifically designed for people wanting to test it?
<popey> it already does that iirc
<popey> it used to anyway
<popey> i see an AlanBell on my screen
<kvarley> SuperMatt: What about a packaged version of vbox that would auto boot the right iso, etc?
 * AlanBell is on a conference call
<SuperMatt> one tick then, lemme load the latest raring iso and see if vboxvideo runs
<popey> ah hang on
<popey> on a live cd it wont, because the driver isnt on the cd
<SuperMatt> right
<popey> you wont get the driver till after install
<popey> no mention of virtualbox in the ubiquity source
<popey> xnox probably knows
<SuperMatt> I'm gonna test this out because I've constantly installed the vbox-guest-additions and put vboxvideo it /etc/modules
<popey> maybe jockey does it post install
<popey> you shouldn't need to do that
<SuperMatt> ok, testing now ;
<popey> AlanBell doesn't look comfortable
<SuperMatt> ;)
<davmor2> SuperMatt: there is a recommended way on the download page there is no reason why that won't work for windows 7 and earlier, a guide to dual booting
<davmor2> popey: I need to stop putting drawing pins on chair really
<davmor2> s/on/on his
<kvarley> AlanBell & popey : I'm coming, downloading firefox nightly on my tablet now
 * directhex moos
 * MartijnVdS doos
<bigcalm> ARGH, my ears
<zleap> hello
 * bigcalm forgets to turn down volume after video call
 * bigcalm blames popey
<zleap> ouch
<popey> hah
<SuperMatt> I don't think that the installer is installing the guest additions
<SuperMatt> for starters, there is no virtualbox-guest-additions package
<popey> virtualbox-guest-x11 is the package
<SuperMatt> ok, I can see in additional drivers that I can install virtualbox-guest-dkms
<popey> good stuff
<SuperMatt> the only issue that I have with it is that VMs are PAINFULLY slow until you can install the drivers
<popey> that pulls in virtualbox-guest-utils which pulls in virtualbox-guest-x11
<popey> yes, it is due to LLVM being used
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I just wonder if there's anything we can do to help out new users testing it out for the first time in a VM
<SuperMatt> it's not a pleasant exerpience
<zleap> you mean setting up virtual box isn't
<zleap> or just getting it up and running in virtual box ?
<SuperMatt> getting it running in vbox
<zleap> ok
<zleap> i am trying to install virtual box now
<SuperMatt> it's been installing virtualbox-guest-dkms for 10 minutes now (from the additional drivers dialogue)
<zleap> http://pastebin.com/ZJRmKS7J
<zleap> during install it comes up with a fail on
<zleap>  * Starting VirtualBox kernel modules                                            * No suitable module for running kernel found
<zleap>                                                                          [fail]
<zleap> invoke-rc.d: initscript virtualbox, action "restart" failed.
<zleap> Processing triggers for ureadahead ...
<zleap> Setting up virtualbox-dkms (4.1.18-dfsg-1ubuntu1.1) ...
<zleap> full install messages above via pastebin
<SuperMatt> yeesh, I think this is something that really needs fixing. Ideally an iso, or a vbox virtual disk, that ensures this stuff is installed by default :/
<zleap> like this http://ubermix.org/download.html
<zleap> they provide a virtual box imagfe or something to help users try it out
<AlanBell> is raring working in virtualbox with unity now?
<SuperMatt> it is... but it's taking its sweet time to install the drivers
<zleap> i am not really sure if googledocs are the best way to distribute image files
<SuperMatt> nope
<zleap> yeah this is how they (or seem to be) distributing the ova file
<zleap> i am sure just putting it on the server with info on how to wget it would be better
<SuperMatt> well, no, becauase wget is a linux tool ;)
<SuperMatt> I imagine they put it on google drive because it's cheap
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> maybe they should use bit-torrent then
<zleap> or similar
<SuperMatt> bit torrent is wonderful, until everyone stops seeding
<zleap> ok there IS a page with other download options on
<SuperMatt> for srs, google drive is probably the highest availability solution for the lowest price
<popey> AlanBell: works here
<popey> SuperMatt: we have iso images, people can put on usb sticks and test with
<popey> we've always had that
<zleap> there is always qemu
<zleap> which can book iso files
<SuperMatt> indeed
<zleap> boot
<zleap> so perhaps we need simple instructions for that
<SuperMatt> I guess I just feel there's a hole that has been left by wubi
<popey> it'll be way slower in qemu
<Darael> In fairness, though, wubi always was kinda broken.  I mean, it did the job, but by its very nature it involved a bit of kludging.
<SuperMatt> true true
<zleap> thing is new users get put off if things don't work fully
<zleap> i found a hardware info program the other week can't remember what it was called
<zleap> basically it could give details of all the hardware on the system, (gui app)
<Darael> lshw-gtk?
<zleap> will have a look
<zleap> Darael, that fits
<zleap> what is needed is perhaps a one stop shop site for beginner testers / bug reporters that lets users know what tools are available to provide info to developers
<mungbean> watching Threads. never seen it b4
<mungbean> was too young, my parents wouldn't let me
<zleap> too young for what ?
<mungbean> too watch to watch it when it was shown on telly
<popey> in fact a usb stick with Ubuntu pre-installed would be more ideal
<popey> rather than an installer
<popey> especially if it were usb3
<popey> maybe optimised a bit to do fewer writes
<AlanBell> that would be good, I am kinda hoping 14.04 will be distributed that way rather than DVD
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/SSK-Drive-Transfer-Stylish-Retractable/dp/B005KDX0B8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365693425&sr=8-1&keywords=usb3+memory+stick
<kvarley> The biggest stumbling block to users trying Ubuntu is using BIOS imo
<kvarley> Since every BIOS system is different, so explaining over the phone is a pain
<AlanBell> uefi now
<kvarley> AlanBell: Is that any better? My only experience of that was on a windows 8 laptop with secureboot
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Integral-32GB-Courier-Flash-Drive/dp/B007ZSLZ5E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1365693515&sr=8-2&keywords=usb3+memory+stick looks preferable
<AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Integral-Courier-Flash-Memory-Faster/dp/B007ZSN10G/ref=pd_sim_computers_3#productDetails would be sufficient
<popey> cheap
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-Generation-8GB-DataTraveller-Drive/dp/B0041Q38NK/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1365693731&sr=1-1&keywords=8gb+usb+memory+stick+usb+3
<popey> even cheaper
<popey> oh, not usb3
<zleap> http://zleap.net/computers/software-testing/
<AlanBell> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1043 neither is that
<zleap> i am trying to collate information to provide developers with hardware information
<popey> for what purpose?
<popey> also, if you mention pastebin you probably should mention pastebinit
<popey> !info pastebinit
<lubotu3> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component main, is optional. Version 1.3-2ubuntu3 (quantal), package size 15 kB, installed size 172 kB
<zleap> because people ask for help with stuff on lists and don't provide information on their hardware
<zleap> it would also help your developers if they know what hardware i am using when reporting issues
<popey> is this ubuntu specifically or in general?
<jacobw> smolt
<zleap> general
<zleap> if we can help users to help us then to me this is a good thing
<popey> i have seen some people have made scripts which gather all this info and slap it on pastebin
<jacobw> I have an internal script that dumps that information in /var/log each boot
<popey> producing output like this http://paste.ubuntu.com/5689629/
<popey> jees, pastebin is just full of those reports
<zleap> i just created a paste bin and posted to irc but set it to expire after a month
<zleap> popey, that sort of thing is really useful for diagnostics,  maybe the testing isos should have a way to enable these things
<zleap> or there could be a tool to enable them
<jacobw> See smolt
<jacobw> It's been retired now, there's a page in their wiki giving the reasons why it didn't work out
<jacobw> Apport does a similar thing
<Knightwise> hey guys
<brobostigon> afternoonings Knightwise
<mungbean> how to find out how far into a video you are with mplayer?
<Knightwise> hmm.. just installed Owncloud on my Turnkey linux  box and configured it for access
<Knightwise> now it seems i need to upgrade it to version 5 ..
<Knightwise> grrr
<Knightwise> Hope I don't break it
<SuperMatt> 5's been out for a few weeks now
<borderer> I use sendEmail to send error messages - can anyone recommend a similar package to receive commands
<SuperMatt> huh?
<SuperMatt> you're just trying to send emails?
<Knightwise> Crud,
<Darael> borderer: If thou meanest what I *think* thou meanest (having a machine do something when an email is received, possibly depending on the contents of the email) the traditional way would involve procmail
<Knightwise> borderer: sendemail is pretty simple , you can do it in a sngle line to compose an email and stuff  ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> borderer: You could also try AlanBell's idea perhaps? http://exceptionalemails.com/
<Darael> Knightwise: I got the impression that borderer was happy with sendemail, and looking for something allowing use of email as a trigger for things.
<Knightwise> Darael: i use sendemail to do auto posts on Google+ and stuff . Its pretty easy to cron
<Knightwise> but I don't use the receiving side
<Darael> Knightwise: Yeah, the receiving side is something fewer people have cause to explore.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I use sendEmail too. It's a very useful perl script that means you do not need a full SMTP server.
<AlanBell> borderer: the python smtp library is fairly easy to use, it is what mailman uses
<Knightwise> crap
<Knightwise> anyone running owncloud ?
<Knightwise> I think I fracked up the file permissions on my config dir
<borderer> Sorry all went for tea...
<Knightwise> hmm.. i'll see if i can find the default settings somewhere
<borderer> I am happy with sendEmail but I would like a way to work with a recieved emails on command line
<borderer> Knightwise - are  you from Netherlands and had a podcast
<Knightwise> borderer: Correct
<Knightwise> i'm not from the netherlands though. :) I'm belgian
<Knightwise> but I speak dutch
<Knightwise> i still have a podcast :)
<borderer> Due to an illness I was not able to keep up but will restart
<Knightwise> Wicked :) you followed the old seasons ?
<borderer> Knightwise - nice to meet you.
<borderer> I enjoyed your podcasts on Ubuntu Servers
<Knightwise> thanx bordered :) Nice to mee tyou too.  You might want to check out our latest episodes (Sliders academy) its also a video podcast on setting up a "sliders core" using a ubuntu server
<borderer> Knightwise will do.
<Knightwise> anyone know anything about TAR ?
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: !ask ;)
<SuperEngineer> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<SuperEngineer> !answer
<SuperEngineer> nah!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: there's:
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<Knightwise> Ok, I have an owncloud installation in /var/www/owncloud
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: :)
<Knightwise> i dowloaded the latest version (a tar file)
<Knightwise> now I need to merge the two versions so that all the file permissions will be preserved
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> check in the original in a VCS (git?), untar, commit only the content changes?
 * MartijnVdS has no idea if git can do that
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: also, next time, put any files that need special permissions outside the source dir ;)
<Knightwise> MartijnVdS: its the standard owncloud install
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: yes.. doesn't it have a separate config file/directory?
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: that you could just copy over to the newly extracted dir to test?
<Knightwise> When i copy over the files from the TAR file it gives me a n error that the file permissions are no longer correct
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: no the other way around :)
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: copy the config from the *current* working install to dir you just extracted to
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: also, doesn't it say which file has wrong permsisions?
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: any o+w files/dirs in your tree?
<Knightwise> let me check , holdon
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: have you tried asking the Owncloud devs? :)
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: did you untar as root or as a normal user?
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: see "--no-same-permissions" and "--same-permissions" in the tar manpage
<Knightwise> they have a wiki, and that just says "make sure the permissions are correct'
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: (no-same == normal user default, same = root-default)
<Knightwise> MartijnVdS: what do you mean by root-default
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: it's the default mode of tar when tar is run by root
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: check the manpage :) it explains
<Knightwise> ok , its as a root user that I'm running it
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: try to untar as a normal user instead
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: try to do as little as possible as root
<Knightwise> yeah, its a debian install
<MartijnVdS> Knightwise: apt-get install sudo :P
<MartijnVdS> also:
<MartijnVdS> owncloud - cloud storage for files, music, contacts, calendars and many more
<MartijnVdS> it's packaged
<MartijnVdS> Use the package!
<mungbean> theres a yutorial for owncloud
<mungbean> failsafe
<MartijnVdS> yutorial?
<mungbean> 1 finhger typing
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<mungbean> yutorial is a good name 4 a youtube tutprial
<MartijnVdS> tutprial is something else though
<Knightwise> MartijnVdS: its a debian box
<Knightwise> and the version I have on there is the 4
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: do this link work for you in holland? http://www.youtube.com/show/agreatbritishairdisaster
<exaem> hey guys
<zleap> hey
<exaem> it's been a long time since i was in here
<exaem> I think i used to use the nick jutnux
<exaem> how have you been?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: This channel is not available in your country.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: but I can proxy, I guess
<mungbean> doesn't work in UK either
<mungbean> i think its screwed
<mungbean> thanks for trying
<bigcalm> I wonder if the RAT will let me take my RAT mug from last year
<bigcalm> !bug 1168160
<lubotu3> bug 1168160 in popey "Hair cut required" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168160
<Darael> *Why* is popey a project on Launchpad?
<bigcalm> I think the question should be, why is he only now a project?
<Darael> That too.
<centurion> hi there, can someone help me with sound issues in Ubuntu 12.04? I have selected the proper hardware in Output tab, but nothing happens
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-12
<AlanBell> Azelphur: weathering the bitcoin storm ok?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: We have an interview in 20mins
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.marshmallowpeeps.com/ ?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: a contraction of peoples ;)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I know :)
<bigcalm> But I do sometimes think of the edible peeps
<MartijnVdS> Don't eat people!
<bigcalm> Soilent Green is marshmallow peeps
<popey> appropriate http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/damn-it-beth-brains-again/
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> popey: any movement on bug 1168160 ?
<lubotu3> bug 1168160 in popey "Hair cut required" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168160
<popey> pfft
<MartijnVdS> popey: you're a project now? :)
 * bigcalm giggles#
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hope he's neat and tidy for the Beerex ;-)
 * TheOpenSourcerer is wearing a suit & tie today - 1st time in EONS!
<TheOpenSourcerer> And it's not for work. It's for luncheon
<bigcalm> Something to be said for working from home or a tech company that doesn't do much face to face with clients :)
<bigcalm> Reminds me that I need new slippers
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can't think of any of our csutomers that wear suits. Was with a new one yesterday - T-Shirts & jeans all round
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lunch is at the Rugby Club :-D
<bigcalm> Nothing funnier than a beefy sports person squeezed into a suit
<bigcalm> Update from Citylink: Out for delivery - 12 April 2013 5:53:00. This is why packages don't get delivered
<bigcalm> Hayley is coming to the RAT and it is definitely no longer a stag event. Hope this doesn't put anybody off
<popey> outrage!
<bigcalm> popey: I invited her as I thought we could make a long weekend of it. Visit my now pregnant sister in Salisbury and then the Mary Rose in Portsmouth
<bigcalm> Sister is due around the date of the wedding. She apologised for the timing. Silly lass
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: They do allow women on the RAT - in fact their numbers have increased greatly over the years. BUt the newer models don't seem to have beards. I seem to recall daubers bringing his better half previously too.
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: if you recall, Hayley was with us last year :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> My recollection capacity is inversely proportional to the amount of beer I drink.
 * bigcalm goes hunting for photos
<TheOpenSourcerer> What goes on tour...
<popey> stays fuzzy
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: not sure if you can see this page or not https://plus.google.com/photos/113834766641843352499/albums/5766438397337827793
<bigcalm> popey: living the dream :)
<mungbean> why did i watch threads last night - man that was a grim film
<cliftonts> Morning all
<cliftonts> Buzzing in here as usual I see, hehe
<popey> would you rather 100+ people said "morning" every time someone arrived?
<cliftonts> Well, it's nice to feel noticed
<Myrtti> welcome to IRC ;-)
<Myrtti> we generally ignore each other
<bigcalm> It's a special kind of love :)
<popey> say something worth noticing â»
<bigcalm> Ouch
<cliftonts> I've come in here because I'm doing the most boring, long winded job in the world at the moment
<cliftonts> ouch indeed!
<Myrtti> mungbean: if I don't remember wrong, they might have shown Grave of the Fireflies some time ago.
<Myrtti> it's probably not as grim as threads, but it got me seeing nightmares for a week.
<bigcalm> Oh my, I couldn't watch the whole of Grave of the Fireflies
<bigcalm> So sad :'(
<Myrtti> ikr
<bigcalm> I'm getting old, just had to google ikr
<cliftonts> Hey, bigcalm. I used to try to contribute to bug reports and testing etc, bet you can't guess why I stopped
<Myrtti> I've told dsample I'm willing to watch it with him, in the summer, in the morning of a beautiful day with something nice like a trip to a museum or a country fair or something planned for the rest of the day
<bigcalm> Myrtti: why would you watch it a 2nd time?
<BigRedS> cliftonts: I guess it wasn't because they were filling your mailbox with bugmail
<mungbean> Myrtti: what's it about?
<mungbean> similar stuff?
<Myrtti> mungbean: two kids in Japan during WWII
<mungbean> i was watching threads at 1am while feeding baby, wishing i was in bed 3 hrs previously
<cliftonts> BigRedS: No, it's because I tend to find those 'in the know' are very abrupt and rude. I got fed up with having my head bitten off for trying to get involved and trying to be friendly.
<mungbean> no one bites heads in here
<popey> my spidey sense is tingling
<Myrtti> tsk
<popey> that looked like an incredibly uncloaked dig at me there cliftonts
<cliftonts> I dunno mungbean, even something meant well and taken the wrong way can still put people off
<Myrtti> guise, let's look at kittens
<mungbean> thats why we have winky symbols ;)
<Myrtti> http://imgur.com/r/aww/4xXKgVJ
<cliftonts> popey, not specifically but your comments don't exactly make me feel welcome. It's something I've seen a lot off in Ubuntu circles over the last 6 years
<mungbean> anywayyyyyy.
<mungbean> can i get the mtp stuff thats in 13.04 in 12.04 easily?
<popey> cliftonts: look at it from a point of view other than your own
<popey> cliftonts: you arrive and almost every time make some snide comment within minutes
<popey> we sit here all day and converse, and don't happen to throw out the red carpet and balloons the second you walk in
<popey> you're reading too much into that.
<cliftonts> Tell you what then, I won't bother having a sense of humor in future. Sorry for being an individual.
<popey> pfft
<mungbean> its not even monday.
<Laney> tell you what, I'm feeling anxious because JamesTait hasn't told me what "day" it is yet
<popey> eek!
<Myrtti> I did try to pull you all to watching kittens.
<Myrtti> oh well.
 * Laney calls his mother
<Myrtti> I get +10points for trying
<MartijnVdS> Laney: it's The first day of Cerealia
<MartijnVdS> Laney: also, Commemoration of first human in space (Yuri Gagarin)
<mungbean> his bot is broke
<Laney> you usurper!
<MartijnVdS> Laney: someone had to!
<MartijnVdS> Laney: people were feeling UNEASE
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday, and happy Walk On Your Wild Side Day! >:-)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I'm disappointed in you.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: But.. Cerealia is a very important part of ancient Roman culture!
<JamesTait> And Laney, how could you doubt me? Have I ever let you down?
<Laney> I was getting worried something had happened to you!
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I'm sure it is, but you could at least let me seat go cold before you try to sit in it. ;)
<JamesTait> Laney, aw shucks! :-P
<JamesTait> Laney, I never knew you cared!
<Laney> â¥
<popey> get a room
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: have you done a openwrt jobby using a usb->serial adapter?
<JamesTait> Are you not feeling the love, popey?
<popey> hah
<Laney> he's jealous and wants some of the love
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yes, one of the "FTDI" ones that  you tend to get when playing with Arduinos
 * JamesTait offers popey a koeksister peace offering.
<mungbean> ARRGH  Rev. A2 only: Some resistors (R264, R273, R275) are missing, so the serial port won't work. I've bridged them with solder (since I don't have access to SMT equipment), and it seems like it's working. This is not needed for rev. A3.
<mungbean> looks like i wasted my time
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you don't have a soldering iron?
<mungbean> not at work
<MartijnVdS> aha :)
<mungbean> and, tbh, its a rubbish AP
<mungbean> i just wanted to play
<MartijnVdS> get a WDR4300 ;)
<mungbean> this was free
<MartijnVdS> OK a 703n then (they're $15 on ebay)
<mungbean> i don't understand tho: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/d-link/dwl-2100ap#installing
<mungbean> what it means by "press ESC until you get a boot prompt" ..esc where?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: in the terminal app :)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can do "screen /dev/ttyUSBx" for the USB-serial port (or /dev/ttyACMx, or whatever it becomes)
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: then press ESC in that
<MartijnVdS> you could attach a VT-100 and press esc on that, of course
<mungbean> ah ok
<mungbean> it wasn't clear
<mungbean> you can do screen /dev/ttyUSB0?
<mungbean> i thought u had to do minicom stuff?
 * JamesTait just had to re-read that too, mungbean.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yeah but minicom is a bit heavyweight, screen can do the same just fine
<AlanBell> huh? screen can do that??
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: uhhuh :)
<AlanBell> screen the byobu thing?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200
<JamesTait> I was about to deduct 0.5 geek points from myself, but I see I'm not the only one.
<MartijnVdS> or 9600.. or 57600, or whatever port :)
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: I'll take those geek points ;)
<JamesTait> Bah!
<bigcalm> I was about to say the same thing. Thought the xbee device I've been using runs at 9600. Wireless mesh is sloooooooooooooooooooooooow
<MartijnVdS> http://www.vim-fu.com/using-screen-to-connect-to-a-serial-console/
<SuperMatt> wait wait wait... everyone try resizing a window in raring, while holding shift
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: I resize using alt..
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: I'm on 12.10 and that was fun
<SuperMatt> I KNOW RIGHT?
<mungbean> we all learned something cool today MartijnVdS thanks
<SuperMatt> that's clearly been there for longer than I was aware of, but dang it's good
<mungbean> i work in a university, finding people willing to do soldering for me should be easy right?
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, interesting!
<SuperMatt> just head to the engineering department!
<JamesTait> I can't think of a single reason I'd want to use that feature, but it's still interesting!
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, you can have my geek points, you're worthy of them.
<JamesTait> I had no idea screen could do this.
<Myrtti> wakka wakka
 * directhex moos
<bigcalm> Time to get these UPS batteries fitted
<Dave2> It's not working in Xfwm I am disappointed :(
<mungbean> heh bigcalm did that on weds
<mungbean> live while the vmware infrastructure chugged away
<bigcalm> mungbean: Ah, this is in an UPS that has to be unplugged and dismantled to replace things. It's not actually designed for the operation but people still do it.
<mungbean> oh which make? a big jobby, or a rack mount one?
<bigcalm> mungbean: I work from home. Some belkin thing
<mungbean> oh. i don't actually have any serial pins. http://wiki.openwrt.org/_media/inbox/d-link/dwl-2100ap/serial_a2.png
<bigcalm> I've been running without UPS for several months now. I couldn't take the stress any more and ordered new batteries
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: that's the JTAG header
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: the serial header should be next to it?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: ah yes, you solder headers onto those
<Myrtti> Belkin :-(
<mungbean> this is a fail
<mungbean> gonna waste my time on something else
<bigcalm> Myrtti: it's what the company bought me
<mungbean> lucky the cable only cost Â£1.69
<bigcalm> Myrtti: and I feel the same way
<mungbean> i want to snooze but there's someone else in the office atm
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> That never stopped my boss when we used to share an office
<mungbean> snooze after lunch is acceptable, but 10.30?
<SuperMatt> I could do with a snooze right now
<mungbean> poor missis sacrificed some sleep so i could get 6hrs
<mungbean> she had 4
<bigcalm> Quite often I fall asleep during my lunch break
<JamesTait> 4 hours? She doesn't know how good she's got it!
<JamesTait> When I were a lad....
<bigcalm> The above is one of many reasons that I'm glad we don't have children
<mungbean> early days, shoud get better when sprog is > 4 months
<JamesTait> http://youtu.be/Xe1a1wHxTyo
<mungbean> but i do find myself liek this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NjPGHZOm_b0/TevXfBmcruI/AAAAAAAACBg/ZYvPPRYN0d4/s1600/tumblr_lkxxp8abYX1qcalu5o1_500.jpg
<JamesTait> Heheh.
<JamesTait> It does look like I'm about to lose my weekend lie-ins.  My eldest son has been having golf lessons at 9am on Saturday mornings, and now my youngest wants to start tennis lessons at 8:30 on Sunday mornings.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: get them to play football instead ;)
<JamesTait> I suppose I'm finally going to have to admit defeat and start going to bed earlier.
<MartijnVdS> like a true old man
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I tried, I really did - but they're just not interested in football.
<mungbean> can't they learn on the playstation?
<awilkins> Wifelet takes the offspring to church on Sunday morning.. I object to church, but I don't object to Sunday morning being peaceful
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I can go off people, you know. ;)
<mungbean> my son loves church as the higlight of his week (me too in fact)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: wow, people still do that?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yeah, religion is still endemic. A mostly benign parasitic disease of the mind (hey, at least it keeps some other diseases out)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<mungbean> yo bro
<mungbean> trying to find an alternative AP that supports {dd,open}wrt in the cupboar
<brobostigon> morning mungbean
<mungbean> linksys WAP4400n ...nope. what a lame AP
<brobostigon> a rpi and a wifi apaptor that supports ap mode.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: is the control socket stuff working now?
<mungbean> yeah was hoping for zero cost solution
<mungbean> have to find sometihng else to learn today, like maybe backing up my stuff to amazon glacier
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, works fine, now need to work out that bridging,
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://r.ebay.com/yYK8tO
<JamesTait> Am I missing a link somewhere, or does ubuntuforums.org not accept OpenID auth from Ubuntu SSO?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://wiki.debian.org/BridgeNetworkConnections
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am reading that as we speak, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: good :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: what's the connection for the 3g?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it explains the basics well, you can find the rest in the manual, or here: http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Adv-Routing-HOWTO/
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: It's just an USB port
<mungbean> ah ok. stiull cute
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: there's no 3G modem in the device, you have to attach one yourself
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, hadnt though about ldp, :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's old but good :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<mungbean> just seen the lower pictures now
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: this is one of the most hackable devices at the moment -- the OpenWRT wiki has complete pinouts of EVERYTHING on that tiny board :)
<MartijnVdS> http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-wr703n
<hoover> hi folks
<mungbean> is the flashing of openwrt straightforward?
<hoover> just installed qemu-kvm on 12.10, now why can't I select virtio drivers in virt-manager for a guest?
<hoover> cannot find anything related with apt-cache either
<hoover> All I have available is ide, scsi and usb.
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: yes, but you have to compile a snapshot yourself, because newer devices won't boot with the current latest Release candidate
<hoover> hm, I think I'll check the qemu channel...
<popey> mungbean: fwiw I had very little trouble with my netgear wndr 3700
<bigcalm> wndr 3700 \o/
<bigcalm> I still haven't got around to attempting to unbrick my wndr 3800
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> Morning davmor2
<bigcalm> davmor2: had the discs replaced. Garage said that it was normal wear for 3 years of use
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yay
<davmor2> bigcalm: I got my broken wiper off, and am in the process of free up the spindle though that might take a few days.  I also did some research and found out what the issue is too.  The spindle is steel and the housing aluminium so it is corrosion over rust :(
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<mungbean> my dad used to have MOT wipers
<bigcalm> I'm thinking my boot window lock switch is a wiring fault rather than fuse. If it were the fuse, the key fob wouldn't be able to unlock it
<mungbean> brand new set he'd put on the day before MOT
<bigcalm> Oh speaking of wipers. What's a good make to go for? I'm fed up of the constant smearing seen on mine and my lady's car
<davmor2> bigcalm: no necessarily don't forget the switch needs power, where as the remote will just have a controller on the motor for release :)
<bigcalm> Humm
<davmor2> bigcalm: valeo
<bigcalm> davmor2: I wish there was a Haynes manual for our car
<davmor2> there is I have one
<bigcalm> Lies!
<bigcalm> :O
<bigcalm> There wasn't one the last time I looked (several months ago)
 * bigcalm orders
<davmor2> bigcalm: I had to go to halfords to get a new license plate for our trailer tent and saw it on offer so swiped it quick
<bigcalm> davmor2: I'm booked in to have the DAB radio fitted on Monday. Will have a mooch then
<bigcalm> Now to find one for Hayley's Huindai Matrix
<davmor2> bigcalm: it was 16.99 rather than 20 odd
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://www.haynes.com/mole
<bigcalm> davmor2: nice
<bigcalm> davmor2: they have the Toyota Matrix, not the Hyundai one
<mungbean> correlation between work on raring and bugs in 12.04?https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2012.04&period=day
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://ubuntuone.com/1oipmuRCKL1JJBFbPAk8Jv just to prove it covers ours :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I do believe you :) http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=53659&langId=-1
<davmor2> bigcalm: that looks just like the picture on the front of mine ;)
<bigcalm> Amazing eh?
<bigcalm> Being ill has helped me loose a few extra pounds. I should get sick more often
<SuperMatt> Being offered free pizza by papa johns has helped me put on a few extra pounds
<SuperMatt> I really need to avoid papa johns
<bigcalm> Hehe
 * SuperMatt grumbles because a script he wrote, and was working perfectly on another machine, has decided not to work
<Myrtti> haha Peugeot
<Myrtti> although I'd laugh even harder if it were Renault
<popey> that lsb_release crash is hilarious
<davmor2> Myrtti: nothing wrong with our cars and peugeot/citreon use Ubuntu in their plants :P
<Myrtti> davmor2: McDonalds uses bacon in some of their food. it doesn't make McDonalds any better.
 * bigcalm tickles Myrtti
<SuperMatt> are we arguing the merits of bacon?
<davmor2> SuperMatt: no jono loses everytime
<Myrtti> no. French cars.
<bigcalm> :(
<davmor2> Myrtti: it's not Mine was built in Britain :P
<SuperMatt> oh no, it must be bad-pun-o'clock
<davmor2> SuperMatt: Oh come on, an hour with jono or a bacon butty, you can't tell me jono is going to win
<Myrtti> davmor2: so it's not *quite* as bad as French cars.
<SuperMatt> mmm... bacon butty
<davmor2> told you
<SuperMatt> we shouldn't talk about bacon
<SuperMatt> because I'm trying to lose some poundage
<SuperMatt> gonna go cycling tomorrow, assuming I can find the key for my D lock
<SuperMatt> otherwise I'm walking all the way to the fabric shop
<davmor2> That's easy, buy it from a cafe you'll be a couple of pounds lighter than you went in with :)
<SuperMatt> BAD PUNS
<bigcalm> I'm already wondering what to have for lunch, not good
<davmor2> SuperMatt: indeed but I couldn't resist
<SuperMatt> I think I'm going to shimmy to the nearest boots and pick up one of their cheap/healthy lunch deals
<davmor2> bigcalm: Bacon and Bread and Brown Sauce
<SuperMatt> except now it's raining
 * SuperMatt shakes a fist at the gods
<bigcalm> davmor2: sausages in the freezer. Good idea, ta
<SuperMatt> SMITE ME DOWN FOR I CANNOT LIVE IN THIS WET WORLD ANY MORE!
<davmor2> SuperMatt: that's why god gave you waterproofs :P
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: http://www.just-eat.co.uk/
<SuperMatt> no gods supplied me with an anorak
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: hahahaha
<SuperMatt> my mum did once, but I never wore it
<Myrtti> then again I kinda want a Mini if I ever get a licence to drive
<Myrtti> or an old Saab
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: so.. you're NOT an anorak then?
<bigcalm> Just Eat is a joke. For my post code it returns 3 Indian restaurants and 1 Chinese take-away
<Myrtti> something that I can learn to fix myself
<davmor2> Myrtti: Saab 900 turbo it's the only one you can still get parts for :)
<SuperMatt> bigcalm: the restaurants need to sign up
<jacobw> Why a Saab?
<MartijnVdS> because Scandinavia?
<jacobw> Hmm
<Myrtti> davmor2: yes.
<davmor2> MartijnVdS, Myrtti: you could always get a volvo :)
<Myrtti> jacobw: because I'm inclined towards Volvos, VW's and Saabs.
<Myrtti> davmor2: yes, it would work with my problem with left and right, as it says on the steering wheel which is which
<bigcalm> Now variety has changed my background to doughnuts, cookies and muffins. ARGH
<Myrtti> (it's an old Finnish joke: *V*asen for left and *O*ikea for right)
<bigcalm> :D
<MartijnVdS> IKEA?
 * bigcalm got it
<davmor2> bigcalm: got what
<Myrtti> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Volvo_steering_wheel.jpg
<bigcalm> davmor2: the Finnish play on words
<bigcalm> My desktop image: http://wallpapers.net/many_cookies-wallpapers.html :(
<bigcalm> Humm, forgot to take my service record with me for the service yesterday. Looks like I'm going out at lunch today
<BigRedS> bigcalm: most of those aren't cookies! I am most disappointed
<bigcalm> BigRedS: the name is very misleading.
<davmor2> bigcalm: you could always deselect the food ones :P
<Myrtti> my wallpaper: https://plus.google.com/117058794763073546749/posts/6daZhLPHtk8
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: ooh, shiny
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: this is mine: http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6816260055/in/set-72157629167894627/lightbox/
<davmor2> this is my current one http://ubuntuone.com/65C2A5xIZswgrPn619Dc0i well on my main box any way on all the others it's the default :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Ubuntu 14.04 - Tasty Tiger?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://ubuntuone.com/28jkCVrUhgqIHmvenfI389 Terrifying Tiger
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Looks like a hot day. Toasty tiger?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: it was when ever I go to see them it seem to be the hottest day on earth
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I think it was 28c that day
<bootkigftrgds1> !textadept  <-- sorry just seeing if this package is listed  [ http://ppa.webupd8.org/post/47615409606/textadept-4-5-available-in-the-main-webupd8-ppa ]
<lubotu3> bootkigftrgds1: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<bootkigftrgds1> leaves
<popey> someone should tell bootkigftrgds1 about /query lubotu3
<popey> and !info
<directhex> and honey badgers
<davmor2> popey: someone should tell him about, apt-cache search, or usc, or apps.ubuntu.com/cat , or package.ubuntu.com ...........................
<davmor2> This just landed in my inbox with the title "What's new? Walnut, velvet and leather!" was about to hit the spam button till I realised it was Ikea :)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<popey> I should probably close a tab or two http://ubuntuone.com/1u99Qxy9CTsPjyT9yJRkxt
<MartijnVdS> popey: s/two/& hundred/
<popey> thats just one window
<JamesTait> popey, that's a very wide window. I have the same problem, but my tabs scroll.
<Myrtti> well this was in my inbox today: https://plus.google.com/100016383867666174158/posts/dAu8DWBPGdg
 * MartijnVdS rarely has >4 tabs open at once
<mungbean> !info nasty
<JamesTait> While useful for keeping the tab titles readable, it doesn't help in demonstrating to me just how many tabs I still have open.
<lubotu3> nasty (source: nasty): A tool which helps you to recover your GPG passphrase. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.6-2 (quantal), package size 8 kB, installed size 68 kB
<JamesTait> I usually realise how bad the situation has got when my machine starts swapping furiously and Firefox is using 3G RAM.
<davmor2> popey: at least you can see tabs :)
<BigRedS> Ooh. Github drinkup in London tomorrow
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: speaking of github - http://starlogs.net/
<davmor2> Myrtti: does that mean you are already hitting seals?  How do the double it do they provide you with a baseball bat :D  You'd think they would check if it could be misinterpreted really wouldn't you :)
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, I've been sticking all my repos through that this morning :)
<BigRedS> I think it'll start turning up in my "look how much work I did today" emails
<MartijnVdS> haha :)
<davmor2> BigRedS: you don't won't github getting drunk really do you, I mean can you image what it would do with your code.  Only buy pepsi's
<BigRedS> Ooh, actually, it's not obvious how I can link to a particular repo in there
<BigRedS> davmor2: it can't make it much worse... :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: hack on it - https://github.com/artemave/StarLogs
<BigRedS> ( https://github.com/blog/1471-london-drinkup for anyone interested in Free beer in London )
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: fork that!
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Shouldn't we be calling people who work at/on/for Github "hubsters"
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> "I cloned that project before it was cool"
<BigRedS> "
<MartijnVdS> "?
<BigRedS> Want to hack on it? No problem. But first, it is not just Javascript and CSS. It is pogoscript and sass. Oh, and they require node.js and ruby respectively."
<BigRedS> bah
<BigRedS> newline fail :(
<BigRedS> but, anyway, that's four things I don't know how to use and two things I don't like using
<BigRedS> I'll just make another page that uses WWW::Mech or something :)
<ali1234> s........ass
<BigRedS> I did misread/misinterpret that first as "Service As A Service"
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: 8-)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: that sounds like a "dot-com" era business model
<ali1234> pogoscript looks truly terrible
<ali1234> it's basically ruby that compiles to javascript
<BigRedS> ew
<AlanBell> code that writes code is not happy code
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: tell that to SkyNet
<Darael> AlanBell: Tell that to a Lispnik.
<BigRedS> most of my bash scripts are written by Perl scripts these days
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: eval "`what`"?
<MartijnVdS> hm
<MartijnVdS> eval `what`
<MartijnVdS> might work better
<BigRedS> I've been doing a bunch of migrationy stuff, so it's concocting lists of rsync and mysql(dump) invocations. I'm not confident enough to backtick it, so I write a shell script that I have a read over before running
<hoover> cheers all
<AlanBell> is there a way to allow a non-root user to dd stuff to an sd card?/
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I think so
<popey> speaking of which
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: securely, or not? :)
<popey> two USB 3.0 sticks just arrived
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: I just don't want to accidentally one day pick /dev/sda instead of /dev/sdb
<AlanBell> it is only me doing it, I just want to protect myself from myself
<popey> dont use dd then?
<popey> use tools which dont let you do that
<AlanBell> such as?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: setfacl -m u:alan:rw /dev/sdb :)
<MartijnVdS> \o/ POSIX ACLs
<popey> that depends what you're trying to do
<popey> /dev/sdc: Timing cached reads:   11666 MB in  2.00 seconds = 5835.19 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 194 MB in  3.02 seconds =  64.22 MB/sec
<popey> is that good?
<popey> USB stick
<MartijnVdS> it's not bad :)
<AlanBell> Timing buffered disk reads:  58 MB in  3.08 seconds =  18.86 MB/sec
<AlanBell> that is an SLC SD card
<MartijnVdS> SLC? is that a brand or a speed rating? :)
<AlanBell> it is the more reliable variety
<AlanBell> single cell per bit
<AlanBell> single bit per cell even
<AlanBell> the posic acl trick isn't persistent :(
<MartijnVdS> aha
<MartijnVdS> it is if you put it in udev rules :)
<AlanBell> works great once, but remove it and insert another and its /dev/sdb wen away
<MartijnVdS> http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html
<AlanBell> ok, that should work
<Myrtti> why can't there be an open source password manager that integrates with the browsers and isn't totally pants
<Myrtti> (first world problems yay)
<mungbean> Myrtti: there is, so long as emacs is your browser
<Myrtti> I haven't had emacs installed for few years now.
<mungbean> i've gone my whole sysadmin life without using it. vim ftw
<mungbean> i've known people who use it as a shell
<mungbean> sick, twisted people
<Myrtti> in other news
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: recovering addict? :)
<Myrtti> no not really, I had specific uses for emacs which are now nonexistent
<davmor2> Myrtti: it's called a pad and pen, it's also potable so you can use it on proprietary OS's too and mobiles........
<davmor2> s/potable/portable
<Myrtti> davmor2: keepass2 database I can synchronize to my mobile and other devices and it's portable...
<bigcalm> potable sounds cuter
<Myrtti> also crossplatform.
<mgdm> yay, you could drink it
<Myrtti> but it crashes a lot.
<bigcalm> KeepAss2 is what we use at work
<davmor2> bigcalm: shame on you
<bigcalm> mgdm: how's WW?
<bigcalm> davmor2: :D
<Myrtti> davmor2: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Personal-Internet-Address-Password-Organizer/ here's for you. Secure as ever.
<Myrtti> the reviews are golden
<davmor2> Myrtti:  	Looking for something? We're sorry. The Web address you entered is not a functioning page on our site. Go to Amazon.co.uk's Home Page   not so good here :)
<Myrtti> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Personal-Internet-Address-Password-Organizer/dp/1441303251
<mungbean> solution is to make all your passwords Myrtti
<mungbean> and make the username something like CorrectHorseBatteryStaple
<davmor2> Myrtti: I love the guy who obviously have no sense of humour and has gone on a security rant :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: I have seen those books available in shops :(
<Myrtti> davmor2: sadly, the sarcastic review might not get the point across
<davmor2> they just need to put a lock on the book then it's secure right :D
<Myrtti> well I suppose I should have expected totally inane banter when I just ranted and vented my own frustration myself.
<Myrtti> thanks for not letting me forget.
<Myrtti> (this moment brought to you by Keepass2 crashing and refusing to restart after said crash unless I relogin to my XFCE4 session)
<davmor2> Myrtti: what you need is one of these with MY PASSWORDS written on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wk-YaHmP6k
<bigcalm> `.`
<mungbean> running my first amazon glacier backup \o/
<MartijnVdS> is it slow?
<SuperMatt> are there any good glacier tools for linux yet?
<mungbean> SuperMatt: i run a script called mt-aws-glacier
<mungbean> e.g i have photos in folders 2000-2013
<mungbean> make tar file of each folder and copy them to a tars folder
<mungbean> run the mts-aws-glacier sync script and tell it which vault to put them in
<mungbean> MartijnVdS: dunno how slow yet
<mungbean> i suspect there may be a 100MB switch somewhere on my route out to the net , otherwise i'd be rocking 1GB
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: nah glaciers move slowly, was my point
<mungbean> hohoho cold storage, rather than slow moving land mass
<mungbean> you only really pay when you extract it
<MartijnVdS> aha
<bigcalm> Do you pay to list content?
<davmor2> bigcalm: if you do then you could always write a script that kept a local copy
<davmor2> local list even
<mungbean> bigcalm: who's that qu for?
<bigcalm> mungbean: whomever wants to answer it :)
<bigcalm> mungbean: you I guess
<mungbean> if its amazon glacier, you pay v small amount to upload, e.g. few $$ to upload 100GB
<mungbean> and similar amount to retain there
<mungbean> for the year
<mungbean> LISTVAULTS, GETJOBOUTPUT, DELETEâ  and all other Requests = free
<bigcalm> What's the caveat with the â ?
<mungbean> â  Glacier is designed with the expectation that retrievals are infrequent and unusual, and data will be stored for extended periods of time. You can retrieve up to 5% of your average monthly storage (pro-rated daily) for free each month. If you choose to retrieve more than this amount of data in a month, you are charged a retrieval fee starting at $0.011 per gigabyte. Learn more. In addition, there is a pro-rated charge of $0.033 per gigabyte
<mungbean> http://aws.amazon.com/glacier/pricing/
<bigcalm> I see, thanks
<mungbean> cheap as chips, especially if u don't expect to retrieve it
<MartijnVdS> encrypt before storing it though.. yay US laws
<mungbean> you can store in ireland
<MartijnVdS> yes, but Amazon is still a US company
<MartijnVdS> and forced to hand over data if the US gov't asks for it
<MartijnVdS> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57556674/patriot-act-can-obtain-data-in-europe-researchers-say/
<mungbean> has anyone used the google play magazines app?
<MartijnVdS> mungbean: currents? I found it lacking in content.
<mungbean> no
<mungbean> for reading purchased magazines
<mungbean> there's a dedicated "zinio type" app in the store
<mungbean> wondered what sort of format the magz were stored in for offline reading
<Myrtti> yes
<Myrtti> it's nice
<mungbean> better than zinio?
<Myrtti> don't know about zinio
<mungbean> i'm more interested how i could keep the magazine for posterity, DRM free
<mungbean> any idea Myrtti ?
<mungbean> are they stored as encrypted pdfs or some other nasty format?
<Myrtti> I have no idea, they're there and they've got both the look-a-like and the mobile version of the magazine
<mungbean> i'm worried that when the app goes away, we can't see the magazine anymore
<popey> have you tried those zinio decryption tools?
<mungbean> there are none
<mungbean> (that i've found)
<mungbean> there's also something called pocketmags, another contender
<mungbean> nitro is pretty app :D
<mungbean> what's not to like?
<mgdm> bigcalm: so far so good
<ali1234> what do you see on this webpage? http://isnamecoinworkingornot.bit.namecoin-suffix.dot-bit.org/
<ali1234> ah, the wrong site, i see
<shauno> I get 'just another wordpress site'
<ali1234> yeah that's my webpage
<ali1234> what's the difference between ServerName and ServerAlias (apache)?
<SuperMatt> server name is the definitive name, server alias is other aliases that the virtual host can listen for
<SuperMatt> basically, you can listen for www.server.tld, and server.tld, and whatever.server.tld
<ali1234> yeah i get that, but what difference does it actually make, in practice?
<ali1234> if i have 1 name and 1 alias, and i swap them over, what changes in practice?
<mungbean> probably security cert issues?
<mungbean> (guess)
<ali1234> ah, i see. anything else? cos i'm not using certs
<mungbean> whats the best way to get started on openstack?
<jacobw> Hang yourself
<BigRedS> ali1234: nothing at all
<mungbean> :-|
<BigRedS> servername can have only one argument
<BigRedS> serveraliases many
<BigRedS> other than that, there's no real distinction
<BigRedS> oh, and any vhost must have a servername, serveraliases are optional
 * SuperMatt nods
<BigRedS> but it doesn't affect anything with certs, either
<BigRedS> we generally have a servername of the form <user>.<fqdn> and then add aliases as real domains are made to resolve to the right place
<BigRedS> so within about a week nobody ever visits the vhost via the servername
<BigRedS> and there's never been a side-effect
<popey> mungbean: what do you want to do with openstack?
<SuperMatt> OMG
<SuperMatt> an update to evolution
<SuperMatt> I can finally see my calendar entries!
<directhex> SuperMatt, 3.6.4?
<Laney> that's the one
<Laney> thanks to YOU, JO SHIELDS!
<directhex> now to wait for delicious backports!
<SuperMatt> directhex: yuppers!
<SuperMatt> is there much changed in 3.8?
<directhex> i'm scared of evolution updates, since they break so much in their major versions
<directhex> 2.6 was unusable before 3.6.4
<Laney> huh, I don't see 3.6.4 in quantal-proposed unapproved
<Laney> thought he uploaded it
<directhex> i got the email
<directhex> it's been approved
<directhex> wait, that's raring
<Laney> indeed
<directhex> so no, i've seen nothing for quantal
<directhex> SCANDALOUS
<Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evolution/+bug/1158367
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1158367 in evolution (Ubuntu Quantal) " [SRU] [MRE] evolution 3.6.4" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Laney> five and subscribe
<MindCrash> i am installing latest version of minitube and i am halfway through getting the right .so files for it, is there anyway i can produce a list of the rest of the .so files it needs?
<popey> ldd <filename>
<popey> can you not just apt-get it?
<MindCrash> cool only 13 files left :-) now is there any way i can apt-get those and make sure they all go in usr/lib?
<popey> why not just "sudo apt-get install minitube" ?
<MindCrash> because you get a version that doesnt work but after a google of the prob it suggested manually installing a more recent version(which I have had working on another distro)
<popey> what version doesn't work?
<MindCrash> 1.6
<popey> you could try the 1.9 deb from quantal?
<popey> http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/amd64/minitube/download or http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/i386/minitube/download  depending on your architecture
<popey> much easier / safer than faffing manually with libraries
<MindCrash> will try that later, but is there anyway to download and control place of install of libraries?
<popey> well, no, because that's not "the right way" of doing it
<MindCrash> hmmmm :-)
<MindCrash> many thanks for your help i will try your suggestion :-)
<Myrtti> goddammit Keepass2
<Lil-|^Red> MMmm .. OT| It's been a long day today .. Just one more time, though.   | :: http://youtu.be/eYDvxo-M0OQ?t=3m45s
<Myrtti> mungbean: did you notice that there's free magazine trials on Google Play?
<Myrtti> including Linux Format
<mungbean> cgeeers Myrtti
<DJones> I wonder if the Â£6.99/month "handset insurance" offered by all the mobile phone shops would cover this for damage or theft? http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/50858/iphone-5-black-diamond-10-million-pounds
<brobostigon> new HIGNFY at 9pm, bbc1,
<popey> DJones: friend of mine used to work for vertu - the people who took nokia phone guts and put bling on them..
<popey> was insane the amount of money people would pay for them
<popey> there was one model which had a black/white/grey screen and another identical one that had a colour screen
<popey> they were actually the same phone with a software change
<popey> some premiership footballer went in to their store and said he didnt like having the grey one, could he swap for a colour one... they did a software update and charged him $$$ to do it
<DJones> That doesn't surprise me (the footballer paying to have something done, that is)
<brobostigon> lol
<popey> I had a play with one a while back, they're bonkers
<ali1234> to be fair vertu comes with 24 hour concierge service
<popey> and they are hand built
<ali1234> it's not just a gold plated phone
<DJones> For a Â£10M phone upgrade, I'd want 24/7 armed security guards included, not just a concierge
<ali1234> they don't cost Â£10M, they cost Â£10K
<popey> he's talking about the iphone
<mungbean> brobostigon: when you said HIGNY i thought meh
<mungbean> but i just turned on and BRIAN BLESSED is doing it!
<popey> indeed
<ali1234> oh right, well, iphone *shrug*
<brobostigon> mungbean: HIGNFY :)
 * popey is watching delayed
<brobostigon> mungbean: they always have good people to present it,
<mungbean> mostly meh, but BB rocks
<popey> i prefer the news quiz tbh
 * popey likes Jeremy Hardy
<mungbean> when is HIGNGFYN repeated?
<mungbean> remember angus deayton?
<popey> ya
<brobostigon> yep.
<mungbean> usually coke and loose women improve tv careerrs
<mungbean> ugh ken livingston..turning over
<mungbean> wondering if the isaac newton prog will be a character assassination
<popey> haha, love the changelog for bug 1163504 from xnox
<lubotu3> bug 1163504 in lubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu Raring) "Trademarked assets" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1163504
<popey> including the unicode â¢ symbol â»
<mungbean> man at the 2nd hand bookshop keeps finding books he knows i will buy, and puts them outside the shop so i will see them
<popey> </paranoia>
<mungbean> knowing i won't resist
<popey> similarly steam keep showing me games they know I cant resist
<mungbean> its not really paranoia because he's picking them out for me
<mungbean> then he says he's got more in the back i'm like noooo
<mungbean> i just know there will be another good one on monday for me
<mungbean> big coffee table sized
<popey> hah
<mungbean> missis keeps noticing i've bought 4 big coffee size books this week
<popey> cheap tho?
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> Â£2
<mungbean> stuff like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Britain-Richard-Townshend-Bickers/dp/0130838098
<popey> thats the kind of thing my father in law likes
<mungbean> it satisfies a lot of brain areas like trivia, history, strategy, equipment, stories, epic tales, aircraft.
<mungbean> popey: i bet he watches Yesterday channel a lot then?
<popey> dunno actually
<mungbean> anyone using their hp microserver for audio aswell?
<diplo> not me
<popey> not I
<diplo> storage/streaming
<popey> playing with juju on mine
<popey> also added daap to it for sharing music
<ali1234> who was askin about openstack earlier?
<popey> mungbean:
<ali1234> so, did you get anywhere?
<mungbean> ali1234: i spent the afternoon backing up my data to amazon glacier instead
<mungbean> but if work is quiet next week i wanna get started on openstack
<mungbean> thought there might be a tldr guide to getting started
<ali1234> i kind of want to put openstack onto our dedi
<ali1234> well, maas and juju
<mungbean> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Getting_Started
<ali1234> we are not really utilizing it at the moment because it's too hard installing many different things into a single system and fixing the conflicts
 * Laney meows
<ali1234> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuCloudInfrastructure is a better howto
<mungbean> i don't have dev infrastructure but i have a room full of spare PCs
<mungbean> by dev infratructure i mean blades+SAN
<Myrtti> apparently plusnet is a bit broken...
<Myrtti> https://portal.plus.net/supportpages.html?a=212
<AlanBell> Myrtti: mine is fine
<diplo> https://portal.plus.net/supportpages.html?a=2&support_action=messages&ispservice_id=adsldial
<diplo> BT wholesale network outage
<mungbean> ali1234: how would you propose installing ubuntu on all the nodes first?
<mungbean> i usually use kickstart for centos installs
<popey> that's what MAAS is for
<ali1234> i don't know, i only have one server, so...
<mungbean> ah, there's a section on the section about it
<mungbean> Install the MAAS server
<mungbean> Install Juju
<mungbean> Deploy Ubuntu Cloud Infrastructure with Juju
<popey> Daviey gave a great demo of exactly that at UDS in may last year
<mungbean> are they proposing shared storage or gluster?
 * Daviey hides
<mungbean> i may have big use case for this stuff soon
<AlanBell> best demo evar
<mungbean> linky pls?
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m3utPU99Wgg#t=35m00s
<Daviey> popey: 'thanks'
<ali1234> broken :(
<ali1234> working now, weird
<mungbean> thx
 * Azelphur dodged the recent BTC crash like a boss, lost around Â£20 tops.
<AlanBell> nice, time to buy in again?
<popey> Azelphur: did you see I gave your twitter nick to a journo â¨
<Azelphur> popey: I did just notice that, yea
<Azelphur> I wouldn't mind going and talking to him, but right now I don't have my business or anything declared yet so would prefer to cover my ass
<Azelphur> also I have like Â£200 in BTC at the moment, although I have Â£10,000 sitting with my broker in London
<lpapp> hi, is there an off-topic channel?
<Azelphur> !offtopic | lpapp
<lubotu3> lpapp: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
<AlanBell> there is #ubuntu-offtopic
<lpapp> Azelphur: I would like to have UK related offtopic questions. :)
 * Azelphur shrugs
<diplo> It's off topic 90% of the time in here :D
<lpapp> :-)
<lpapp> I was just wondering if it was possible in the UK to get an unlimited internet data package if I top up a prepay three sim card with 20 euros, i.e. just like here in Ireland?
<diplo> Giffgaff do a unlimited data package i think on it's own, defo do one with texts/calls etc
<mungbean> tethered or not?
<mungbean> untethered then Â£12pm
<mungbean> the tethered one is 10pm but limited to 1gb
<lpapp> I will go to the UK for two weeks, and it would be nice to get an unlimited data package with a prepay sim card that I will buy in there.
<lpapp> what does it mean "pm" in this context?
<mungbean> per month
<lpapp> pounds / month?
<lpapp> ok.
<lpapp> well, prepay is nothing like pm.
<lpapp> that is the advantage of it.
<mungbean> giffgaff is rolling monthly contract
<ali1234> bah i don't understand this at all
<mungbean> hence you just pay for 1 month
<diplo> Well not a contract
<diplo> well i suppose it is  :)
<lpapp> well, three does not have any contract over here.
<diplo> It's good anyhoo
<lpapp> it is truly prepay.
<mungbean> its just not slavery like tmob et al
<diplo> Don't think you can get that much over here now
<ali1234> why is it recommended that maas has at least 6 nodes?
<lpapp> I will ask the three customer support.
<lpapp> service*
<lpapp> 1 GB is not too much in this modern world.
<mungbean> is this for tethered?
<lpapp> tethered means?
<lpapp> like a hotspot?
<lpapp> yes, sure, I would use it on my laptop.
<mungbean> http://giffgaff.com/goodybags/3gb-mobile-broadband
<lpapp> or on my phone.
<mungbean> 3gb for Â£12.50
<lpapp> oh btw, and forgot to mention: 20 EUR, but the data package is for free.
<lpapp> you can still use the 20 EUR for voice calls.
<lpapp> I need truly unlimited. :)
<mungbean> if u want i can PM you a giffgaff affialite link then u also get Â£5 for PAYG calls too
<mungbean> added on
<lpapp> I do not wanna run out of the limitation in a few days by watching youtube continuously for instance.
<mungbean> i think three do "unlimited" in UK too but unsure of monthly or annual contract
<lpapp> it is all prepay in Ireland. No contracts involved.
<lpapp> you buy a top up, and then you invoke the vouchure code, and that is pretty much it.
<lpapp> you do not have to sign anything whatsoever.
<lpapp> if I need to download a 4-5 GB image, that 3 GB is gone very quickly. :-)
<mungbean> on 3g? lol
<lpapp> yes, an overnight.
<mungbean> would take me all week
<lpapp> I do not buy that.
<lpapp> been doing this for 1-2 years now.
<lpapp> and like I said, with three, the internet is free as you can still use your credits.
<mungbean> http://www.three.co.uk/Store/SIM/Pay_As_You_Go
<mungbean> Pay As You Go plans do not allow tethering. If you would like to tether, you will need to choose a Pay Monthly plan and / or an Add-On that does allow tethering.
<lpapp> All-in-One 15 Add-on. -> sounds like a plan.
<lpapp> whatever the 15 means.
<lpapp> I guess it refers to pounds.
<lpapp> I am not sure that cannot be hacked around. :)
<Myrtti> what I do is to have the three prepaid and then order the month Internet addon
<lpapp> Likely, they write the same in Ireland as well.
<Myrtti> it's 2GB or so
<mungbean> are there subsequent ubuntu cloud server releases since 12.04?
<lpapp> Myrtti: which add-on?
<Myrtti> the website is sooooooper confusing
<Myrtti> I can't even find the pricing or more information from the website now
<lpapp> so the operator can block the tethering (hotspot)?
<Darael> lpapp: No.  But they can look at the usage and conclude that it's highly unlikely it's all from the phone (in the case of Android phones, possibly ask for a screenshot of the data usage history screen?) and call it a breach of contract unless the person can demonstrate it was in fact all from the phone.
<lpapp> never had such issues, and been using it like that for 1-2 years.
<lpapp> also, youtube is quite popular on phones as well, so it is not all that unlikely.
<mungbean> it woukld prob take a few months for them to do this first
<Darael> They'd probably only bother with people who were going *way* over whatever their fair use policy cap was on a regular basis.
<lpapp> unlimited is unlimited.
<lpapp> fair usage is unlimited.
<ali1234> lol
<diplo> GiffGaff did that to abusers, people who would downloading 15GB + a month
<lpapp> yes, I just heard that from my friend.
<mungbean> good thing imo
<magpie> does anyone know how to limit the amount of cpu lxdm-binary rinses?
<mungbean> optimize it no, but you can use nice/renice to decrease priority
<mungbean> how much is it using magpie
<mungbean> is it bug 922363
<lubotu3> bug 892683 in lxdm (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #922363 lxdm-binary load 100% cpu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892683
<magpie> 24%
<magpie> bare in mind i have a 4 core
<magpie> mungbean i seen the bug
<mungbean> i mean bug 892683
<lubotu3> bug 892683 in lxdm (Ubuntu) "lxdm-binary load 100% cpu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892683
<magpie> i'm not sure how to fix it though
<mungbean> 24% of 4Core = 100 of 1 cpu
<magpie> yeah that's right
<magpie> it's using my second core
<magpie> weird that
<mungbean> are u using ecryotfs
<mungbean> are u using ecryptfs
<magpie> someone's put a patch mungbean how would i apply it?
<magpie> i think so yeah
<magpie> my home is encrypted
<magpie> i read somewhere that htis was a problem for it
<mungbean> yes
<mungbean> theres a patch for lxdm
<magpie> do you know how i can apply it?
<mungbean> if nobody has built it u need to recompile lxdm
<magpie> will this not work http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/appy-patch-file-using-patch-command/
<mungbean> sorry putting baby to sleep now, someone else in here should be ale to help with patch & compile
<magpie> ok i'm gunna try link first n see where that takes me
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-13
<MartijnVdS> good morning everyone!
<dwatkins> hiya MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Lil-|^Red> Meanwhile in South Korea http://www.youtube.com/user/officialpsy?feature=inp-lt-psy-us
<brobostigon> wow, on my eeepc, while doing apt-get update, the load have gone over 105.
<brobostigon> just went down to under 20, very weird behaviour.
<NET||abuse> hi folks, i have a really irritating with my ethernet connection
 * dwatkins assumes NET||abuse accidentally a word
<jacobw> :)
<NET||abuse> huh?
<NET||abuse> :P my nick is an old joke from #perl that stuck
<NET||abuse> anyway,
<NET||abuse> or do you mean i forgot a word in my question?
<dwatkins> Yes, NET||abuse.
<NET||abuse> well, doesn't matter, my connection detects that i plug in the wire.
<NET||abuse> but on any given boot up, the dhcp never succeeds.
<NET||abuse> i reboot andd it can work every second or third bootup
<dwatkins> Does the card show up in lspci and is the module loaded for the card as shown in lsmod?
<NET||abuse> ok, one sec
<NET||abuse> lspci output is    00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection (rev 04)
<NET||abuse> trying to find it in lsmod
<dwatkins> also, does the card show up in ifconfig?
<NET||abuse> yeh, it shows up in ifconfig
<NET||abuse> eth0      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr d4:be:d9:10:84:a1   ... etc.
<dwatkins> and if you disable and re-enable networking from the icon near the clock, does it work?
<NET||abuse> anyway, on the gui side, the cable goes in. it starts dhcp searching.
<NET||abuse> yeh, i've tried that.
<NET||abuse> i disconnect the cable and the icon on the top bar notices
<NET||abuse> i reconnect then it shows upthere too, and setarts to search but doesn't find it.
<NET||abuse> i've tried the disconnect menu option before, i'll try it now again.
<jacobw> What happens if you try to connect and disconnect to the wired network a few times?
<popey> brobostigon: not weird, just io intensive on a machine with a slow storage device
<NET||abuse> jacobw: tried it about 3 times already this boot.
<brobostigon> popey: good point, yes. very true.
<NET||abuse> the disconnect menu option and the reconnection eht0_auto option isn't working also
<NET||abuse> diconnecting over and over, nothing
<NET||abuse> damn, 6 times a charm
<NET||abuse> i'm back without rebooting. hah,, what a pain in the ass
<NET||abuse> thanks for the input.. wonder why it's so unreliable.
<jacobw> It sounds like a network-manager problem
<Myrtti> I swear to Gaia I'll buy that password notebook
 * Myrtti stabs Keepass2 a little bit
<ThomasM_> Hello everybody, i have strange problem by creating symlinks via udev rules on Ubuntu 12.10.
<ThomasM_> This rules is working fine to create a symlink from a ttyACM device
<ThomasM_> KERNEL=="ttyACM[0-9]*", SUBSYSTEM=="tty", ATTRS{idVendor}=="1ffb", ATTRS{idProduct}=="0089", MODE="0666", OWNER="thomas", SYMLINK+="ttyServo"
<ThomasM_> Now iw want to do the same for a ttyUSB device like an FTDI USB to TTL Converter
<ThomasM_> KERNEL=="ttyUSB[0-9]*", SUBSYSTEM=="tty", ATTRS{idVendor}=="0403", ATTRS{idProduct}=="6001", MODE="0666", OWNER="thomas", SYMLINK+="ttyRoboClaw"
<ThomasM_> but this rule doesn't work
<ThomasM_> Then I tried a simpler rule like this:
<ThomasM_> ATTRS{idVendor}=="0403", ATTRS{idProduct}=="6001", MODE="0666", OWNER="thomas", SYMLINK+="ttyRoboClaw"
<ThomasM_> but the created symlink links to  "ttyRoboClaw -> bus/usb/001/012" the bus instead of the original device path "ttyUSB0"
<ThomasM_> I tried several rules but sometimes the rule isn't created and sometimes it i created but points to the bus
<ThomasM_> for the ttyACM devices everyting works fine
<ThomasM_> also rules work for video devices linke this:
<ThomasM_> KERNEL=="video[0-9]*", SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", ATTRS{idVendor}=="5986", ATTRS{idProduct}=="0361", SYMLINK+="video-cam0"
<ThomasM_> but like i told you not for the ttyUSB device, its very stange for me at this point...#
<ThomasM_> maybe someone of you have a solution for me
<ThomasM_> Thank you
<ThomasM_> second client I am still here :)
<ali1234> how do i display the build dependencies of a package if they are already installed?
<directhex> ali1234, apt-cache build-dep packagename?
<ali1234> E: Invalid operation build-dep
<directhex> apt-cache not apt-get
<AlanBell> that isn't an apt-cache command
<ali1234> yes, that is what i typed. it does not work
<AlanBell> apt-get -s build-dep gedit
<AlanBell> perhaps
<AlanBell> but that probably doesn't help if you have them installed
<ali1234> yeah that only shows the ones that are not currently installed
<ali1234> what i did was apt-get source and then look at debian/control
<directhex> oh, hang on
<directhex> it's showsrc
<directhex> doesn't list version requirements though
<directhex> and the formatting is generally hard to machine-parse
<ali1234> that's ok, i don't want to parse it and i don't want really care about ersions as i know the ones in the repos work
<ali1234> i'm on a system with no -src repos configured and i want to build a package. so i can't apt-get build-dep... so i need to install dependencies manually
<dwatkins> hey peeps, has anyone installed 12.10 on a uefi motherboard recently? We're getting a grub prompt, so I assume we need to follow this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1599293
<dwatkins> any suggestions welcome, though
<dwatkins> !uefi
<jacobw> I have installed on UEFI motherboard, and there no difference to an non UEFI motherboard
<lubotu3> UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware, it is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
<dwatkins> hmm, i wonder why we're getting the grub prompt, then
<magpie> what's the problem dwatkins?
<dwatkins> we get a grub prompt booting from usb to install 12.10 amd64
<jpds> dwatkins: Hit tab.
<dwatkins> we get a list of commands, jpds
<dwatkins> 'boot' fails
<jpds> dwatkins: live?
<dwatkins> trying the procedure in my link above fails at the point of loading the loopback module, saying we should disable secure boot
<dwatkins> so i guess we should do that ;)
<magpie> when did it start happening?
<dwatkins> yes, trying to install from unetbootin-created usb device from the 12.10 64-bit iso
<dwatkins> just trying to find the secure boot settings
<magpie> did you format it to fat32 and set bios to boot from usb yeah?
<magpie> @ dwatkins
<directhex> unetbootin doesn't support uefi
<dwatkins> yay we have a kernel :D
<directhex> it has not created a uefi-capable install medium
<dwatkins> followed the instructions in my link, we now have a gui
<magpie> dwatkins did your format to fat32?
<magpie> you
<dwatkins> magpie: yes, the usb is vfat
<dwatkins> only problem now is that grub hasn't recognised that windows 7 is on the first hard disk, so we can boot windows 7 manually from the uefi, but when powering the machine on it goes straight into Ubuntu with no grub menu
<dwatkins> I suspect this may be because we didn't select the option to mount the partition on which windows 7 is installed during partitioning, not sure though.
<magpie> oh
<dwatkins> i.e. ubuntu installed ok, windows 7 still boots manually, but grub never shows the menu
<magpie> dwatkins i think you may have forgot to change ur bios setting back?
<dwatkins> aha which setting do we need to change back, magpie? the secure boot one?
<dwatkins> looks like there are three boot records to choose from, two of which identify themselves as 'ubuntu', so presumably one is grub, the other is the newly installed OS
<magpie> ii'm not 100% certain because I haven;t had dual boot for a long time but I believe you would need to change it from the usb back to your hard disk
<kvarley> Is there an editor that will let me print my code with syntax highlighting and indentation?
<magpie> then after that it should come up with the promt you need
<dwatkins> we removed the usb stick to avoid possible confusion
<dwatkins> kvarley: vi with syntax on?
<magpie> grub is the ubuntu boot
 * kvarley hates vi
<magpie> loadeer
<magpie> yeah remove the usb
<kvarley> dwatkins: Any GUI apps?
<magpie> reboot and press f12 (usually)
<dwatkins> magpie: aha, it's now showing grub's menu, although it didn't detect windows 7
<magpie> then it will have a list of drives u can boot from as your primary boot
<magpie> grub won't detect it
<magpie> grub is the ubuntu bootloader
<dwatkins> I mean when the menu.lst was created during install
<magpie> iit should be asking u whether u want to boot into grub or whatever windows bootloader is
<magpie> have u booted into the bios yet?
<magpie> u need to go to the bios to check ur primary boot disk
<magpie> there is a much easier way to do this though with this http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/windows-installer
<dwatkins> no, grub doesn't have windows in the boot manu
<dwatkins> *menu
<magpie> grub is not the same thing as the bios
<dwatkins> indeed
<magpie> assuming u partitioned ur hard drive and grub is on one partition with windows on the other yes?
<dwatkins> pretty much - two physical disks, windows 7 on the first
<magpie> oh
<magpie> well i think the problem is simpler then
<magpie> you have two seperate hard drives each with an install on them?
<dwatkins> yeah
<magpie> ur bios is booting into one because you have set it to primary (or that is the default)
<magpie> I am not sure how you can set neither as default but I imagine there is a way. What make is ur motherboard, do you know?
<dwatkins> I imagine we probably need to re-run grub-update and get it to detect Windows 7 so it can add it to the menu.lst
<dwatkins> or update-grub
<magpie> i would check the bios settings first
<magpie> it's probably ur primary hard disk set to the hard disk with the ubuntu install on it
<dwatkins> yeah, we had to change the order to get the grub menu
<dwatkins> I'm guessing we need to install grub to /dev/sda and hope it automatically detects Windows 7
 * directhex waits for melted computer
<magpie> was it not detecting windows when the windows bootloader was default you mean dwatkins?
<directhex> installing grub to a partition header is a BIOS/MBR thing.
<directhex> it explicitly does not do anyting, and may make your system unbootable, if you're on UEFI-only boot.
<directhex> and the model with UEFI is *not* to boot windows from grub. that's not how it works
<directhex> the model is to hit the "select boot device" button, typically F12, and pick "Windows Boot Manager" rather than "ubuntu" from the list
<magpie> echo directhex
<directhex> you can change which EFI application is the default with efibootmgr
<directhex> if the system is booting grub before giving you the chance to hit the "select boot device" menu, then you have UEFI Fast Boot enabled (which skips a lot of initialization and jumps straight to the default application)
 * directhex wonders if dwatkins has read any of the above, or if he's facing the charred remains of his computer
<dwatkins> directhex: heh, just been looking in to what's in /boot/efi/efi
<directhex> presumably a bootx64.efi (windows boot manager)
<debasheez> hello
<dwatkins> thanks directhex, this starts to make sense now
<dwatkins> there's no 'press F12' option that I'm aware of on this motherboard, but perhaps it's obfuscated
<debasheez> how can i make a usb bootable windows xp in ubuntu?
<debasheez> will unet botin do?
<directhex> dwatkins, maybe f2. there's definitely a key.
<jacobw> debasheez: I don't think so
<directhex> debasheez, i don't think so. i'm sure i've done it somehow, but it might have been with the MS utility in wine
<debasheez> so how do i do that
<directhex> but xp is, like, 12 years old. it's not designed for fancy things
<dwatkins> debasheez: no, unetbootin doesn't support XP, there are tools from Microsoft which will allow you to create a bootable USB device with XP, if I remember correctly.
<dwatkins> maybe just Windows 7/Vista, I've not used it
<debasheez> how can i create it then/
<debasheez> my xp is too banged yp
<debasheez> it does not even connect to internet....half the things dont work
<dwatkins> debasheez: google ' usb boot  boot windows '?
<dwatkins> oops, two 'boot' but you get the idea
<debasheez> yeah i got it
<dwatkins> ah ok, no idea how you'd do this without internet access, I don't think it can be done from within Ubuntu.
<dwatkins> you could just use Ubuntu...
<jacobw> You can do it from Powershell or cmd.exe, and there's Windows applications that can automate the process.
<debasheez> which one
<jacobw> I don't think you can do it without Windows utilities/helpers.
<debasheez> yeah
<jacobw> WinToFlash
<debasheez> will wine do the trick?
<jacobw> I don't know
<debasheez> hmm lemme try
<debasheez> the primary bootloader is grub
<debasheez> then i get an option to choose windows or ubuntu
<dwatkins> What's actually the problem with XP, debasheez? Virus? Malware? BSOD?
<debasheez> i guess its either a virus or a malware
<dwatkins> there are antivirus bootable images from the likes of AVG, I believe, possibly Symantex too
<dwatkins> Symantec, even.
<debasheez> i dont think the anti virus will help much
<debasheez> the right click does not work even
<dwatkins> What are they symptoms, debasheez?
<dwatkins> *the
<debasheez> well right click does not work
<debasheez> network properties does not open
<dwatkins> that could just be a hardware problem
<directhex> sounds like the install is just bonged
<directhex> it happens
<directhex> windows degrades
<debasheez> and i let my pc be used my noobs
<debasheez> plugged in their infected usb
<debasheez> and slowly the windows is unusable
<debasheez> let me reboot and try installing it via win 2 flash
<debasheez> wine does not seem to work here
<jacobw> n00bs, indeed.
<brobostigon> new Dr Who bbc1 6pm,
<Myrtti> sounds like a good time to go grocery shopping then
<brobostigon> ah.
<Myrtti> iPlayer ftw!
<brobostigon> :)
<jacobw> Whoop whoop
<magpie> can I make a suggestion?
<brobostigon> no spoilers?
<magpie> don't worry about windows you don't really need it :)
<dwatkins> looks like my friend is happy to just manually select the disk from the bios/efi
<directhex> the application, not the disk :D
<directhex> booting "a disk" or "a partition" is a MBR thing
<dwatkins> ah i see, thanks - i have a lot to learn/update
<dwatkins> bbl, catching the bus
 * popey fixes bug 1168160
<lubotu3> bug 1168160 in popey "Hair cut required" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1168160
<brobostigon> lol
<directhex> dwatkins, basically, with BIOS, when booting the computer, there's 448 bytes (iirc) of 16-bit 8086 code near the start of the disk drive, which is executed on your 16-bit 8086. this code may contain just enough code to load more code from somewhere else on disk, or a redirect to another 448 bytes of 16 bit 8086 machine code on the header of a partition (rather than the header of an entire drive)
<AlanBell> W: Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring-security/multiverse/binary-i386/Packages  Cannot initiate the connection to fe80::211:3bff:fe17:c2d5:8000 (fe80::211:3bff:fe17:c2d5). - connect (22: Invalid argument)
<AlanBell> why is it doing ipv6?
<AlanBell> apt-get update isn't working because it wants to do v6 connections it seems, I can ping stuff and it pings the normal IP address just fine
<shauno> I don't believe security.ubuntu.com has an ipv6 address.  and it's certainly not fe80::, that's link local (eg, it's you, or the other end of the wire, and nothing else)
<AlanBell> oh
<shauno> oh, they do hvae ipv6 now .. that's news to me.  but the link-local bit stands
<AlanBell> ah, might be squid-deb-proxy getting upset about something
<AlanBell> yup, it was
<AlanBell> how do I tell apport to just let things crash and not be annoying?
<AlanBell> ah, /etc/default/apport
 * dwatkins clicks 'restart current programme' on iplayer
<dwatkins> directhex: ah yes, the two stages of grub, I assume
<jacobw> AlanBell: Yep
<bigcalm_laptop> Good evening peeps
<bigcalm_laptop> popey: mcping
<mungbean> evening
<mungbean> how was doctor whop compared to last week?
<brobostigon> mungbean: miles better.
<mungbean> last week getting 2/10
<AlanBell> the singing one was dreadful
<mungbean> yeah shockingly bad
<mungbean> i didnt watch a whole series once when that tate cvame along
<AlanBell> I like Clara
<brobostigon> billie piper has my preference.
<mungbean> really?
<brobostigon> yes.
<mungbean> that was when the writing got stupid
<mJayk> Afternoon all
<mungbean> love/messiah/cap jack
<directhex> pfft
<directhex> the best companion was Jamie McCrimmon.
<mungbean> the bimbo boy
<AlanBell> River Song was also very good, much better than Amy
<mungbean> i just tried to open an easter egg and failed
<directhex> Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart?
<AlanBell> I remember him from the books, never watched those ones
<AlanBell> that was the doctor that had the intertial damping car
<AlanBell> bessie I think
<mungbean> i joined love film purely for dr who reasons
<mungbean> theres a cool cybermen one wher they lost 2 episodes and animated them
<mungbean> but really well
<directhex> they basically burned most of the second doctor
<directhex> to save storage space
<mungbean> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Invasion_(Doctor_Who)
<mJayk> mungbean: Can you get love film on Android ?
<mungbean> this was 7 yrs ago and exhausted their suiuply of dr who dvd in the post
<mungbean> then i cancelled after no more left to watch that i hadnt seen
<mJayk> ah okdokay
<lorna> Anyone around tonight?
<bigcalm_laptop> Not really
<bigcalm_laptop> Evening anyway :)
<lorna> Evening. How are you?
<bigcalm_laptop> Wishing for longer weekends. You?
<lorna> Looking forward to a fairly settled Sunday.
<lorna> Have you any plans for the rest of the weekend?
<lorna> Evening
<Lil-|^Red> OT | FYI Linode admin P/words need updating BTW. :::: || http://blog.linode.com/2013/04/12/security-notice-linode-manager-password-reset/ ||
<Lil-|^Red> leaves.
<mungbean> yes, this dr who is an improvement on last week
<mungbean> how was the lanuage transation working, tardis was not in vicinity?
<ali1234> same way it works on star trek even when they are not on the ship
<mungbean> usually they say, ooh tardis is nearby, the language matrix works
<brobostigon> ali1234: those are built after TOS into the communicators. in TOS they used to be seperate devices.
 * AlanBell thought it was the bable fish
 * brobostigon walks around moping like marvin.
<brobostigon> ali1234: i do believe it is babel fish.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i do believe it is babel fish.
<brobostigon> sorry ali1234
<mungbean> also why do daleks have a strong accent but the russians have english accent
<brobostigon> lol, same problem, why dont the daleks speal
<brobostigon> lol, same problem, why dont the daleks speak dals spoke?
<brobostigon> the same language,
<brobostigon> same reasoning, why doesnt davros neither.?
<brobostigon> although i think davros was a kaled.
<dwatkins> things weren't being translated last week
<dwatkins> well, some things - the barking
<mungbean> and allons-y
<mungbean> maybee dr whitelists some words
<mungbean> or maybe theres millions of holes in the plot every week
<mungbean> but they get cute assistants to dazzle the people who might notice
<dwatkins> I don't mind little translation issues, perhaps the barking was an exception somehow, or the Tardis had never encountered it before. Plot holes are annoying, though.
<mungbean> i cant help thinking that the best way to get measles is to stand in a queue with other unvaccinated kids
<dwatkins> Hence chicken pox parties.
<mungbean> needed a wee since 8pm, but sleeping baby might wake as shes on my lap..#dadproblems
<dwatkins> aww
<mungbean> all i can do is surf and watch tv
<dwatkins> I thought kids slept through anything.
<dwatkins> There's a massive continuity failure in the film The Punisher - he gets shot, but then later on his t-shirt is fine.
<mungbean> only when the bottle aint finished
<dwatkins> Perhaps he has a wardrobe full of them.
<mungbean> in a recent dr who episode, they drove out of the tardis on a motorbike/harley
<dwatkins> yeah, that was cool
<mungbean> then as they drove away the door was shut
<mungbean> but noboydy closed it
<dwatkins> I noticed that, he's closed the door by clicking his fingers in the past, though.
<dwatkins> He should have done that then.
<mungbean> they stayed on the doc the whole time
<dwatkins> indeed
<mungbean> yeah
<dwatkins> Just a bit of a continuity failure.
<mungbean> yeah spoils it for me
<mungbean> and for the missis cos then i;m moaning
<dwatkins> I tend to make up some reason it happened as above, and move on.
<mungbean> lol
<mungbean> the main reason is cos its a kids programme
<dwatkins> this is also true, yes
<mungbean> everyone knows the sonic screwdriver fixes it every week
<dwatkins> Yeah, and he can magically read all sorts of information off it and control it without it needing a keyboard.
<mungbean> they do have a habit of finding the most attractive girls on telly
<dwatkins> I have two sonic screwdrivers, I used one to put a wardrobe together, but they don't tell me how far above or below sea level I am, sa.
<dwatkins> *sadly
<mungbean> next it will be the countdown girly
<dwatkins> haha, Carol would be great as a companion.
<mungbean> my one is always out of charge when i need it most
<mungbean> no, rachel is the CG now
<dwatkins> oh righyt
<mungbean> that wouls be funny though CV as dr who girl
<dwatkins> :D
<bigcalm> Yay, irssi proxy via firewall. Hope it stays safe
<bigcalm> Anybody here use nut for UPS monitoring?
<Lil-|^Red> OT | Could S -Ubuntu be called "Socotra" Release ?   ::: |   http://www.thecircumference.org/socotra-island      ::  Note:  Ignore if misguided. |
<Lil-|^Red> leaves.
<Laney> O_O
<Myrtti> so random.
<dwatkins> Ubuntu Scotland
<mungbean> nahm they'll be wanting independence before long
<mungbean> so excited at my new airbrush delivery, have zero time to use it :(
<StevenR> bigcalm: I used apcupsd. Was dead simple. Even wrote a script to put it into nagios :)
<bigcalm> StevenR: I've used apcupsd with APC upses. My current UPS is by Belkin, hence needing another solution. Nut seems to support it but I'm having trouble
 * popey boggles
<StevenR> ah
 * bigcalm googles
 * Laney gobbles
<bigcalm> This is confusing
 * dwatkins goggles
 * mungbean wobbles
 * dwatkins dabbles
<bigcalm> So, any UPS monitor systems that work with Belkin UPSes?
<popey> what do you use a ups for?
<popey> desktop?
<bigcalm> Microserver, cable modem, router, desktop
<popey> you get a lot of power cuts?
<bigcalm> popey: no, but it only takes one to really tick you off
<bigcalm> Using the grill has the chance of throwing the power. So I have to shut everything down just in case
 * popey reboots into 12.04
<mungbean> i used belkin UPS as door stops before
<mungbean> they didn't work as UPS
<dwatkins> I'm overdue a power cut.
<dwatkins> I live in a block of flats that was built in the 1890s, I'm amazed I can get fast internets at-all, let alone consistent power.
<mungbean> i just watched a video of a walrus doing situps
<mungbean> time to finish my internet for the day
<bigcalm> Rebooting helped
<dwatkins> My home server has a built-in UPS - it's a netbook ;)
<popey> gnnnn
<popey> bug 1167019
<lubotu3> bug 1167019 in linux (Ubuntu) "wifi packet loss on intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 " [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167019
<popey> _so_ annoying
 * Lil-|^Red draws his pillow at : penguin42 ,& the angry mob . [OT] http://youtu.be/cOIXmhBh1rY?t=2s 
<Lil-|^Red> boom \o/
<popey> that's getting as annoying
<shauno> who broke him?
<mungbean> popey: had a similar bug on centrino 6230 with certain APs
<mungbean> ended up with a workaroud that disabling wifi power saving via powertop fixed it \o.
<popey> hmm
 * popey tries that
<mungbean> although it was only manifested on certain APs
<popey> this never used to be an issue
<mungbean> our work wifi is all aruba controllers. when they upgraded their firmware i \o/
<popey> got worse with 13.04 kernels
<mungbean> i'm suffering a gpu lockup issue that loads of people getting
<popey> wireless power saving is already off it seems
<mungbean> bug 1140716
<lubotu3> bug 1140716 in linux-lts-quantal (Ubuntu Precise) "[regression] 3.5.0-26-generic and 3.2.0-39-generic GPU hangs on Sandybridge" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1140716
<mungbean> gone from system lockup->hard reboot required, to 10 sec GPU hang, and then recover working
<mungbean> after installed 3.5 kernel
<penguin42> very few people seem to really understand that stuff
<mungbean> cute feature in chrome. start typing ebay.co.uk in the url bar, then press tab while doing it
<mungbean> e.g type eb-tab-kindle
<popey>    mungbean i think you're right
<popey> i might try 12.04 with the older kernel
<popey> looks like 12.04 shipped with 3.2..
 * popey looks for a 12.04 iso
<popey> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/release/ wins
<popey> maybe not
<popey> 12.04.2 there
<penguin42> popey: It's surprisingly hard to find iso's on ubuntu.com these days
<popey> even  http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/ has 12.04.1
<Laney> old-releases.ubuntu.com
<popey> oh, no it doesnt
<popey> it lies
<popey> it says .1 at the top
 * popey wgets http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/12.04/ubuntu-12.04-desktop-amd64.iso while network is working
<penguin42> I would appreciate it if you could get someone to fix it
<popey> well, anyone could do what I'm doing
<popey> trying to find out at what kernel version it broke
<penguin42> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/ might help
<penguin42> popey: Yeh, but finding the isos is way too hard these days
<popey> yeah, been doing that
<dwatkins> ooh, I can boot my Mac from USB, that wasn't possible with Ubuntu before afaik.
<dwatkins> It got very warm whilst I was typing in insmod commands to the grub prompt.
<popey> trying to just find an old iso which actually works before updating
 * popey dd's an iso to usb
<dwatkins> don't forget the bs
<popey> why?
<shauno> I'm pretty sure the bs option is only there to annoy bsd users :/
<penguin42> popey: Without bb you end up doing 512byte read/writes and it's slow as heck
<penguin42> popey: Use bs=1M and it speeds up nicely
<popey> 732213248 bytes (732 MB) copied, 267.068 s, 2.7 MB/s
 * popey reboots into retrobuntu
<shauno> annoying trivia .. gnu's dd takes bs=1M, and complains 1m isn't a number.  bsd's dd takes bs=1m, and complains 1M isn't a number.
<penguin42> oh that's annoying
<penguin42> shauno: Submit patches for both?
<shauno> thanks to some variation of murphy's law, I'm positive I get the wrong case more often than I don't
<penguin42> well yeh, if you have a pair of confusing things like that you're bound to
 * popey uses Linux ubuntu 3.2.0-23-generic for a bit
<Seeker`> penguin42: patches to both to swap them round?
<popey> hah
<penguin42> Seeker`: Haha no!
<penguin42> Seeker`: To let you use either m or M on either; of course they'll each object that the other is wrong
<Seeker`> just to really confuse the people that have currnetly managed to remember which way round it is :P
 * Seeker` ponders getting up / staying up to watch the F1 at 6am
<penguin42> 6am doesn't happen on Sundays
<Seeker`> heh
<Seeker`> it might do for F1
<Seeker`> followed by a looooooong nap
 * popey installs from one usb stick to another
 * popey installs using btrfs for the crack
<popey> ubiquity crashed
<penguin42> 12.04 you're using? (not .1 or .2 ?)
 * dwatkins credits popey 
<penguin42> I think you're supposed to be able to put the old harrdware layer on the newer 12.04
<popey> yes, 12.04
<mungbean> when everyone's on btrfs maybe ubuntu can have better snapshotting / system point in time restores
<penguin42> popey: Yeh ok, I doubt you'll get much excitement for anyone to fix it in plain 12.04
<popey> thats not the goal
<popey> the goal is to find when it broke
<penguin42> nod
<popey> i want to start from a working machine
<mungbean> which is the way to find the bug
<penguin42> popey: I'd just roll the kernel back (although they might also want the firmware rolling back?)
<mungbean> aren't there old kernels kicking around on your grub list?
<popey> penguin42: i know, thats not what i want to do
<popey> i want to start from a working point
<penguin42> ah, ok
<popey> hmm, ubiquity crashed formatting ext4 too
<popey> this is not good
<popey> ubi-usersetup crashed
<penguin42> popey: Try 12.04.1
<popey> its still formatting and copying files
<ali1234> if you want to find where it broke why are you not testing mainline kernels?
<mungbean> popey is the 1 man wrecking ball
<popey> "try again" worked
<popey> ali1234: i will
<popey> once I get a known good state
<popey> which 12.04 seems to be so far
<ali1234> bisecting across branches isn't fun
<ali1234> you'll need to go back to the 3.2.x that the ubuntu kernel is based on and test that
<popey> yup
<popey> although getting significant packet loss with 3.2, but not enough to drop my ssh connection it seems
<popey>  Host                                Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
<popey>  1. 192.168.1.1                      33.4%   887    7.6   8.4   4.0 131.1   9.7
<mungbean> humour me by checking the wifi power saving again?
<popey> i have an mtr running. and its showing packet loss going up, but this ssh session is surviving
<popey> mungbean: can i check that without powertop?
<mungbean> hmm
<popey> i dont want to apt-get anything while ubiquity is installing
<popey> (on a live cd)
<ali1234> you can poke around in /sys
<ali1234> if you can figure out what the numbers and letters mean
<popey> heh
<mungbean> maybe iwconfig
<mungbean> iw wlan0 set power_save on
<popey> i dont want to set, i want to query surely?
<popey>           Power Management:off
<popey> that?
<popey> (from iwconfig)
<mungbean> off for me, let me check powertop agrees
<popey> I'll reboot to 13.04 in a bit when this install finishes to see what the setting is there
<mungbean> powertop says "BAD" so seems to agree PS is off
<popey> thats what it said for me earlier
<popey> oh dear. ubiquity shows tweets with &amp; instead of &
<dwatkins> Thaat's just &lt;silly&gr;
<penguin42> why does ubiquity show tweets at all?
<popey> because its the last slide
<popey> nothing else to look at, lets promote ubuntu :D
<SavageWolf> Hmm... People, what is your "impulsive first impression" of my username handle thing?
<popey> Reminds me of an old sinclair spectrum game
<popey> but the name escapes me
<popey> guess my brain is mixing it up with SabreWulf
<SavageWolf> I keep thinking it's too "violent" or something... o_O
<popey> change it to SavagePony
<SavageWolf> Also, the input field seems to have bad kerning...
<mungbean> savagepond
<mungbean> by bug byte if i recall
<popey> also there was a gave made by Savage something.. might just have been Savage
<popey> which had giant sprites
<popey> very colourful
<popey> (for a speccy)
<popey> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0004353
<popey> bingo
<mungbean> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlORNVnhmko
<SavageWolf> I never grew up with any of those games consoles computer things, annoyingly.
<SavageWolf> Anyway, I worry that my username will give a bad "first impression" about me, and stuff like that. Especially to future potential employers and such like.
<SavageWolf> Since I use this name for everything.
<popey> is it your email address & IM too ?
<popey> i.e. is it on your CV?
<shauno> heh, nothing cracks me up like seeing xXepicbaby94Xx@hotmail.com on a CV
<popey> and do you care what a potential employer thinks? I mean, depends on what your job is really.
<popey> if you were a game dev then not so much
<SavageWolf> I have two email addresses, one of them is my real name which I use for "professional" things.
<popey> as many as two!
<popey> j/k
<SavageWolf> And I intend to make games and whatnot.
<SavageWolf> My personal website thing is essentially my username.
<popey> \o/ install finished, reboot time
<SavageWolf> Though I was thinking of making a portfolio site thing where I go "here is what I have made" which uses my real name.
<mungbean> like github?
<SavageWolf> I have a github, and my username there is "SavageWolf".
<popey> \o/ back in 13.04
<popey>           Power Management:off
<popey> mungbean: ^
<mungbean> was on by defaulr my centrino 6239
<mungbean> 6230
<popey> network droped a second after you said that
<popey> drops for ~1 min
<mungbean> oof
<mungbean> dmesg says?
<mungbean> turn off your microwave
<SavageWolf> It would be so awesome if in syslog there was a line saying "Microwave detected, please turn off microwave before retrying.".
<popey> got something in dmesg, not super useful
<mJayk> You dont have a new neighbour do you ? using the same wireless channel
<popey> it cant be that, i can boot to a different kernel and itsfine
<mJayk> do the different kernels use different drivers @ all ?
<popey> gah, this is pissing me off too much now. going to bed
<popey> completely unusable, will test more tomorrow nn all
<SavageWolf> I should stop being concerned with what others think of my username, I suppose.
<shauno> introspection and 1am tends to end up in a bottle of whisky
<SavageWolf> It's not introspection, it's paranoia.
<SavageWolf> Anyway, I should go sleep, yes.
<penguin42> Net Upgrade Size:       -155.98 MiB   hmm
<penguin42> oops, wrong channel
#ubuntu-uk 2013-04-14
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> moin moin
<kvarley> Does this ( http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_opensource_uvd&num=1 ) mean I can now game using open source AMD drivers?
<popey> Morning
<zleap> morning
<SuperMatt> ahoy
<kvarley-live> I'm currently on the 13.04 installer
<kvarley-live> Just clicked to continue on the 'Preparing to install Ubuntu' screen and it's not doing anything but apparently loading
<kvarley-live> For anybody else who bumps into this, it's this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1080701
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1080701 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "After 'Preparing to install Ubuntu' screen, raring installation hangs" [High,Confirmed]
<popey> bah
<popey> resorted to using windows today as the wifi is just unbearable
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: hows the face?
<popey> looked really bad
<SuperMatt> time to get my code on, yo!
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning  popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> It hurts. A lot
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will take another piccy in a mo. Bruising quite nicely now :-)
<popey> â¹
<popey> hah, glad you're in good spirits about it
<popey> tbh when I fell over at the maltings when buying this years beerex tickets I thought I'd be injured more than I was
<TheOpenSourcerer> It looks worse that it really is.  A few scratches and bruises but nothing broken.
<TheOpenSourcerer> You fell over before the beer ???
<popey> yeah, at ~6am
<popey> the set of steps near the bridge, on the maltings side
<popey> i was standing on the brickwork looking to see how long the queue was
<popey> missed footing fell (rolled) down the steps
<popey> john said it looked like i might stop at some point, but no, i kept on rolling
<popey> plenty of bruises under my clothes but nothing too bad, and no facial/head injuries
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<SuperMatt> how do I update my current bzr check out to the latest revision?
<TheOpenSourcerer> What I still can't work out about this is how I was so drunk without having drunk that much (for me) and I didn't have a hangover from hell yesterday...
<popey> bzr pull
<TheOpenSourcerer> I can't remember anything about the afternoon after listening to Gareth Edwards speak. But at the point I'd probably only had 2 pints of bitter and 3/4 of a bottle of wine.
<popey> crikey
<SuperMatt> ta
<TheOpenSourcerer> I do wonder if there was some spiking going on...
<Myrtti> I've Had the reverse
<apacheuk> quick question, I've been messing around with python/quickly and built a simple little app.... created a ppa and everything is hunky dory.... I've just installed 13.04 on my laptop, how do I get the ppa built for 13.04? Or do I have towait til its officially released?
<Myrtti> hangover from hell after one .33l can of 4.7% cider
<MartijnVdS> apacheuk: submit a package with "raring" in the debian/changelog (and probably another version number.. :)
<Myrtti> but not being drunk at all
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: looks much better
<popey> now you can open your eye!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yes!
<apacheuk> MartijnVdS, cheers.... guess I have some reading to do :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.jaren90muziek.nl/data/eslqkyxy/front.jpg
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: qu'est ce que c'est
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: The cover of a single from the 90s.. your pic reminded me of it :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh I see.
<MartijnVdS> (it's "happy hardcore".. *shudder*)
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: has anybody offered information on what happened?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Well, my mate Roger who brought me home said I had just fell over a few times - the last one using a car door mirror and my face to slow me down...
<bigcalm> Ouch
<MartijnVdS> argh!
<MartijnVdS> shotwell won't show its main window
<TheOpenSourcerer> But my mind's a blank really - which is odd. Because I have a reasonable capacity for alcohol and in reality I don't think I'd drunk that much
<MartijnVdS> well. it's trying to but no contents
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I had no hangover to speak of yesterday.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: the only time I've had memory loss was when I got a concussion from being hit from behind while bicycling
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: could it be that you hit your head *that* hard?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I guess so.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: seeing a doctor and getting a scan wouldn't be a silly option
<TheOpenSourcerer> My wife has been suggesting the same thing. But apart from an aching face I feel fine.
<bigcalm> So I managed to get nut working with my Belkin UPS. What's odd is that the current load is 0. How can this be?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: nothing's attached to it?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: power is still on, so the battery is not "loaded"?
<StevenR> bigcalm: either, nothing is connected to the UPS, there's a rounding issue, or the software is wrong
<MartijnVdS> (note: OR not XOR)
<bigcalm> I'm visiting my parents this weekend, so I can't poke things right now. But I'm fairly sure I plugged into the UPS the extension block connecting the cable modem, router, micro server and desktop
<bigcalm> http://discworld.cuth.eu/ups/
<StevenR> bigcalm: how big a UPS is it?
<bigcalm> StevenR: domestic device: http://www.belkin.com/us/support-product?rnId=672
<StevenR> bigcalm: ok, I'd expect to see a load of around 25-35% (for the kit you describe above - I'm estimating a little there), so it's probably not a rounding error... which suggests either there's nothing plugged in, or the driver/software can't read that value from the UPS (which is odd, because it's getting lots of other data from the UPS)
<bigcalm> Odd indeed. I guess I'll have to play more when I get home
<bigcalm> The UPS itself might be fudged
<bigcalm> I had to replace the batteries. Maybe I killed something in the process
<StevenR> bigcalm: you can't put fudge in a UPS. That'll definately affect the load reading ;)
<bigcalm> :)
<kvarley> Just got 13.04 installed ... Wow, Ubuntu never ceases to amaze me
<popey> that bad huh?
<kvarley> Had a bit of trouble installing (known bug), then needed proprietary drivers for Unity to become usable and there is a bug with the drivers at the moment but I've patched it up.
<kvarley> popey: No, it's good :)
<kvarley> Getting more and more usable all the time
<kvarley> Is turning off "Record Activity" and "Include online search results" all I need to do to maintain my privacy?
<popey> depends how you define privacy
<popey> use tor, don't use google, use an adblocker.. etc
<kvarley> popey: I mean, some people said the online search results raise privacy issues. I was just trying to disable those features. Admittedly I do use Steam and closed source drivers tho
<popey> read more about it than just what "some people say" imo
<kvarley> Ok, I mean as far as I can tell they're complaining because it's on by default. Couldn't a toggle be included in ubiquity to make them happy?
<popey> no, because it wouldn't make everyone happy
<popey> "them" implies there's one big group
<popey> there isn't
<MartijnVdS> especially the design team
<popey> there's a load of individuals who have differing opinions
<popey> (most of which don't use ubuntu and probably never have, and probably never will. e.g. RMS)
<kvarley> Oh, ok. Well I've been round the block of other distros to see what the alternatives are and none of them compare to Ubuntu or XUbuntu
<kvarley> The animations on 13.04 are absolutely gorgeous, it feels like a whole different OS
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: animations?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Minimizing windows, tiling windows, opening windows, etc :)
<MartijnVdS> I don't see a difference?
<kvarley> The tiling animation and minimize are different from 12.10
<ali1234> that stuff is animated?
<kvarley> ali1234: Transitions are animated right?
<ali1234> not on my computer
<kvarley> Oh
<ali1234> because i use nvidia and the frame rate is too low for them to be visible
<kvarley> Ah, I'm on AMD FGLRX
<ali1234> but openarena runs at 6 million FPS
<kvarley> heh
<kvarley> afk
<penguin42> kvarley: I thought there was now a big toggle that they had added specifically for the privacy switches
<ikonia> kvarley: you mentioned earlier that you had to use the propritary drivers as if it was a "bad thing", did you expect the open drivers to power your card sucessful
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: it works like that on intel :)
<ali1234> i constantly hear from AMD fanboys about how they are so much better than nvidia because "they open sourced all their drivers"
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: amd fanboys are not smart people, I guess?
<MartijnVdS> (this is implied in the word "fanboy", I guess)
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: he's not using intel though, so I was curious to his expectation on ati
<MartijnVdS> well there _are_ free ati drivers
<MartijnVdS> and AMD has just released some new video decoding stuff under a free license
<ikonia> ali1234: I doubt the people claiming ati are better because they are open are fanboys...just ill informed
<kvarley> ikonia: I use the proprietary drivers because I have to in order to get good performance. Ideally GPU vendors would open source everything
<ikonia> kvarley: I appreciate you "had" to use it, however you spoke of it as a negative thing
<kvarley> ali1234: I only like AMD because it's the best performance per Â£. I know Intel CPUs and Nvidia GPUs outperform AMD on just performance. I'm not a fanboy of AMD, I buy whatever brand is best for my needs
<ikonia> or like you expected to be able to use the open driver
<ikonia> intel out perform ATI ?
<kvarley> ikonia: I just mean that I'd have hoped the performance would have been better with the open source drivers but obviously that isn't down to the driver developers but AMD for keeping FGLRX closed source
<kvarley> ikonia: I said AMD. Intel CPUs generally out-perform AMD's
<ikonia> ahh cpu
<ikonia> ATI=AMD, I thought you where still referencing gpu
<kvarley> Well ATI are no more no, just AMD isn't it?
<ikonia> yes, re-directs to AMD
<kvarley> Is there an easy way I can limit Steam's download speed?
<magpie> steam?
<kvarley> magpie: Doesn't have an option as far as I can see
<magpie> there's a way to limit your download speed in general i don't know the method for a specific program
<magpie> what is steam?
<magpie> maybe if you linked the command to the PID
<magpie> you could do it that way
<kvarley> I have the realtek 8168 chipset but the current kernel module that is loaded is 8169 - why?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: because chip manufacturers sometimes have a bunch of chips with different numbers that are different in details only
<MartijnVdS> so one driver is written
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: What seems to be the issue he is it's loading one module because it supports a lot of chipsets but the chipset I'm on isn't fully supported by it so I'm getting poor performance. I'm trying to build the module manually, run into some errors (I'm on 13.04) so I'm asking in #ubuntu+1 thanks anyway :)
<MartijnVdS> uhhh
<MartijnVdS> manually building modules is almost never the answer :)
<Myrtti> achievement unlocked: went to Hobbycraft, didn't buy yarn.
<penguin42> what did you buy instead?
<Myrtti> watercolours, and a Tala jam canning kit
<Myrtti> latter was twice the price that it would have been in another stores but oh well.
<Myrtti> I made a special effort to not Amazon every product I saw there with my phone.
<penguin42> haha
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: next challenge: one day without a phone
<penguin42> wth are people offering OLD scsi drives for $100 on amazon
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: not ebay?
<penguin42> I've just pulled a 1G and 4GB SCSI drive out of an old case I've had sitting here for years, and looked up the drive numbers on line, and  found offering prices of over $100
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: I'm seeing Â£167 for "72Gb hot-plug serial SCSI HDD"
<MartijnVdS> but wow.. scsi :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think they're circa 97
 * MartijnVdS wonders if it'd be worth it to put the old 350D up for sale somewhere
<stgraber>  /win 41
<MartijnVdS> stgraber: /lose ;)
<stgraber> ;)
<penguin42> 350D?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_350D
<penguin42> ah
<MartijnVdS> ooh! there's a chdk version for it
<penguin42> a what?
<bigcalm> penguin42: open source camera firmware
<penguin42> ah neat
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I have a 350D, my neice really wants it - then I got a mywi card for it, which means I don't need to plug it in (it's technically unsupported, but seems to work)
<dwatkins> That reminds me, I must check it's still working.
<MartijnVdS> eye-fi you mean?
<dwatkins> oh yeah, sorry
<dwatkins> getting confused between wifi devices
<MartijnVdS> too many "-fi" names!
<shauno> I didn't know the eye-fi cards came in CF ?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: cf-to-sd adapters exist
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWaF1vePqUE
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Just reading the chdk stuff - neat
<shauno> interesting, I had no idea  (and ditto on chdk)
<MartijnVdS> magic lantern will blow your mind then ;)
<shauno> didn't expect that one because I believe SD cards are serial/usb, and CF is ATA/IDE
<MartijnVdS> shauno: SD cards use a very simple protocol. It's easy to build a tiny chip to translate reads/writes
<penguin42> shauno: But CF cards are huge compared to an SD, plenty of room to put a micro in a converter
<penguin42> shauno: http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/28850789/680800863/SD-Card-to-CompactFlash-Card-Adaptor/ListingDetails.html?_%24ja=tsid:13315|cat:28850789|prd:28850789&ef_id=Rv5QOWfVyg4AAAcR:20130414161909:s
<popey> seems disabling 802.11n has "solved" my wifi woes.
<dwatkins> shauno: indeed, I have a CF-SD adapter for my 350D, it's specifically stated as being unsupported on the eye-fi site, but mostly seems to work
<MartijnVdS> popey: that used to be the "Fix" on 2007-8 era Intel wifi as well
<dwatkins> hmmm, at least it did...
<dwatkins> flibbertyjibbet, it's not uploading new photos anymore
<dwatkins> strange, the card thinks it's tomorrow morning... aha, now it's trying to upload images
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: *whistles Doctor Who theme*
<dwatkins> hehe, spoooooky huh?
<dwatkins> I'm looking at my DHCP leases file, and the last one is at epoch time 1365999607, has the eye-fi's name and that's Mon Apr 15 05:20:07 BST 2013
 * dwatkins wonders if this is dnsmasq's fault
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "date" on the dnsmasq machine
<dwatkins> root@ubuntu-eee:~# date
<dwatkins> Sun Apr 14 17:29:21 BST 2013
<MartijnVdS> looks OK
<MartijnVdS> isn't it the lease _end_ time?
 * dwatkins moves the camera closer to the router
<MartijnVdS> now + 12 hours?
<dwatkins> oh is it?
<MartijnVdS> just wondering
<dwatkins> bingo - it wasn't getting a strong enough wifi signal
<dwatkins> probably something to do with my camera being made of metal ;)
<MartijnVdS> and your hands of mostly water, blocking 2.4GHz signals quite effectively ;)
 * dwatkins considers keeping the Linksys WRT54G he's currently installing so his brother can throttle his kids' youtube usage ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: WDR4300 + OpenWRT ;)
<dwatkins> haha, it was just sitting on the bed, but there are a couple walls between me and the router, and a sofa or two
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: get 600 mbit 802.11n, AND throttling
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I havn't done anything like this before, I was thinking of using the Tomato firmware, but if there's a Better Way, I'm all ears
<dwatkins> (as much as one can use one's ears on IRC)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I'm running OpenWRT on mine :)
<MartijnVdS> You can get it from their site, or compile it yourself for flexibility
<dwatkins> looks like a nice router
<dwatkins> I bought a WRT54G off e-bay to try this out with.
<MartijnVdS> (I disabled the web interface, ssh + vi ftw ;))
<dwatkins> yeah, I tend to administer the above-mentioned server mostly via ssh.
<MartijnVdS> this has twice the flash (8MB instead of 4) so you get a bit more space to install stuff
<dwatkins> nifty
<dwatkins> That can be my next project, I'll use my brother's router as a learning experience.
<MartijnVdS> make sure you read the openwrt wiki page for the router before flashing
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: does it lose all the settings when flashed? I configured the wifi of the linksys I'm about to setup for 192.168.3.0/24 since I already have another 192.168.1.0/24 network
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it loses settings if you flash a different "kind" of firmware
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: (openwrt -> tomato, or tomato -> dd-wrt, etc.)
<dwatkins> I assume this Linksys just has the default firware on it, looks like it from the web-interface.
<MartijnVdS> but openwrt can save settings over a reflash using the "sysupgrade" command-line tool (and/or the "Upgrade" functionality in the LuCI web interface)
<MartijnVdS> then first make sure which firmware to get from the wiki :)
<dwatkins> yeah, I bought a specific version of this router so it's well supported, v2.0 iirc
<dwatkins> Linksys Firmware Version: v2.02.7
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start#linksys :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: linksys firmware version doesn't really matter
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: if the wifi chip in it is new enough, it can even support multiple wifi networks at once
<dwatkins> thanks MartijnVdS, will have a look
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to use the Tomato firmware if its nice and easy to use - my brother doesn't want to have to learn all about the comand line just to change his daughter's bandwidth ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: OpenWRT comes with an easy to use web interface, "LuCI"
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it can do QoS/bandwidth management as well, if you install the right package(s) (also from the web interface!)
<dwatkins> haha the newest release is called "attitude adjustment"
<dwatkins> cool, thanks
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yeah they're all named after cocktails.. "Kamikaze", "White Russian"< "Attitude Adjustment", "Barrier Breaker"
<dwatkins> I'm a bit concerned at this: On modern OpenWRT, brcm47xx that supports a linux 2.6 kernel, the luci web interface is so slow that sometimes the watchdog timer restarts the router.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: hmm.. I haven't noticed that yet
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's not like that on the WDR4300 ;)
<dwatkins> yeah, i guess better specs help
<MartijnVdS> it has a way better CPU
<MartijnVdS> and more RAM
<ali1234> what tool can plot data with variable time step?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: rrdtool?
<ali1234> wrong answer
<ali1234> rrdtool requires that the data has a fixed time step
<MartijnVdS> you can backdate data points and skip data points
 * dwatkins suspects gnuplot might be able to plot all sorts of things
<ali1234> that isn't helpful at all
<MartijnVdS> yeah if gnuplot can't plot it, nothing can :)
<ali1234> the way rrdtool works is if you have a gap in the data it just plots nothing
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you can make it plot the last-known value
<ali1234> if i have readings taken at 1, 2, 3, 10 then i have two choices: i can have a graph with timestep 10 that shows only the readings at 1 and 10
<ali1234> or i can have a graph with timestep 1 and a large gap between 3 and 10
<ali1234> you can't make it plot the last known value because it won't even store it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I suspect graphite (http://graphite.wikidot.com) can do it
<ali1234> does it run on command line and is packaged in ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: you send it messages over some simple MQ thing
<MartijnVdS> graphite-carbon - backend data caching and persistence daemon for Graphite
<ali1234> MQ?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: message queue.. it can do rabbitmq
<ali1234> i have a text file with lines like: date,value
<penguin42> variable step seems actually quite hard
<ali1234> i want to plot them into a png file
<MartijnVdS> oh you can do a simple text protocol as well
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> libgd 8-)
<penguin42> anyone any good with gephi?
<ali1234> using a command line like "plot -o stats.png data.txt"
<penguin42> ali1234: It might be worth looking if there is a python graphing library?
<ali1234> there is pylab
<ali1234> it's kind of overkill though, and also it makes very ugly charts
 * penguin42 is currently having the problem with the other type of graphs
<dwatkins> I keep meaning to look into flotr2: http://humblesoftware.com/flotr2/
<ali1234> http://matplotlib.org/examples/api/date_index_formatter.html \o/
<dwatkins> nice
<ali1234> matplotlib need x11 and gtk installed
<mungbean> evening fans
<popey> BARK BARK BARK! mungbean BARK BARK!
 * mungbean gives popey a doggie treat
 * popey belches dog breath at mungbean 
<brobostigon> ewww
<mungbean> tomorrow i will embark on ubuntu openstack testing/learning. is 12.04 image still the latest for cloud servfer?
<popey> i believe all the important bits are backported or in PPA's yes.
<popey> Daviey knows more
<popey> also https://twitter.com/DailyLinuxSteam/status/323523248983797760 lots of games in steam
<popey> was 25 on release, now ~170 odd
<mungbean> grrr baby fell asleep 10ml into a 120ml bottle
<diplo_> heh seems normal mungbean
<mungbean> all that screaming over nothing
 * diplo_ thinks someone will be woken up later
<diplo_> :D
<mungbean> bieber lol
<mungbean> kids today eh
<czajkowski> aloha
<mungbean> watching the LAS owncloud 5 review
<mungbean> realised havent watched las for over a yea r
<mungbean> quiet here, is there something great on telly im missing?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-07
<daftykins> i guess Altair had to follow the creed on that one
<chtlolifs> Finally - it's happened . We *don't need* Ubuntu to get stuff - we just need a ' thingy ' . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFYs9zqYpdM
<chtlolifs> leaves
<daftykins> all that stuff on doorsteps, gonna get stolen
<shauno> I miss living somewhere that was never a concern
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> shauno: seems i've just had some youngster types just move in next door ;/
<daftykins> last night was music until 4am
<shauno> well, my first attempts at i2c haven't gone well at all.  I can't seem to get far enough to prove whether this thing even works
<daftykins> :(
<daftykins> not responding to stimuli?
<shauno> nada.  I couldn't figure out why it was behaving the way it does.  then I discovered it does the same if you don't connect data lines to it at all
<MooDoo> morning all
<jussi> o/ MooDoo
<MooDoo> how goes it jussi
<jussi> MooDoo: monday at work.... ;)
<MooDoo> snap!
<jussi> MooDoo: go and do my job for me, will you? :P
<jussi> I want to go back to bed
<MooDoo> jussi: I'll do yours if you do mine, ps it's 7am here ;)
<jussi> MooDoo: deal. what are the tasks? :P
<MooDoo> lol
<jussi> MooDoo: out of curiousity, what do you actually do? (PM if you dont want to spill the beans here)
<MooDoo> It's fine, I'm a Team Lead for a ISP here in nottingham
<MooDoo> http://www.heartinternet.co.uk/
<MooDoo> if you're interested - http://www.heartinternet.co.uk/careers ;)
<dwatkins> morning all
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I should buy a domain instead of using a free one for my blog (as I can't access it from work)
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> MooDoo: the prices for domains on your site aren't shown as %4.2f by the way, e.g. Â£29.9
<diplo> had a question for you the other day MooDoo, one of customers deals with you it seems.. can't remember now though :)
<MooDoo> diplo: if you remember ask away and If I can help I will
<dwatkins> I'm about to switch ISPs at home, but I assume you don't do FTTC broadband, MooDoo.
<MooDoo> no just hosting/domains etc
<dwatkins> I was hesitant about switching to PlusNet (as they're owned by BT), but they appear to be pretty good, and they're cheaper than my current provider, IDNet.
<diplo> Cheers MooDoo, sorry disconnected there dfor a mo
<MooDoo> no worries
<diplo> MooDoo: Seperate question, but does your company offer like a reseller email hosting ?
<bashrc> morning
<diddledan> allo
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> morning
<feisar_> morning
<MooDoo> morning bigcalm diddledan feisar_
<bigcalm> o/
<feisar_> so when are these Ubuntu phones out and is anyone here getting one?
<MooDoo> how longs a piece of string ;)
<feisar_> oh I thought they had a release data now
<jussi> no idea and no. I have a linux phone already :D
<jussi> actually 2 of them
<feisar_> Android?
<jussi> nope
<feisar_> I am intrigued by the idea because I'd like not to have to use all the Google stuff
<jussi> feisar_: if you want one today, go buy a Jolla
<feisar_> oh cool, I haven't seen them before
<feisar_> so you can put the ubuntu OS on their hardware?
<jussi> no idea - but sailfish is a very modern, linux based OS
<jussi> if you want ubuntu, just grab yourself a nexus line phone and install it
<jussi> (I did that a few weeks back)
<feisar_> I have a nexus 4
<jussi> feisar_: so install ubuntu phone on it
<jussi> its quite usable
<diddledan> feisar_: perfect, that's the reference model
<feisar_> would I regret it? My other idea was to use Cyanogen mod without the G stuff
<jussi> !phone
<lubotu3> Information about the Ubuntu Touch platform for Phone and Tablet is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch support and discussion in #ubuntu-touch
<feisar_> thanks
<jussi> feisar_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
<diddledan> I'm annoyed that Galaxy Nexi aren't getting updated anymore :-(
<jussi> diddledan: "aawwww!" :P
 * jussi has sailfish on his N4
<feisar_> jussi: what's it like?
<diddledan> I'm stuck on image 188
<jussi> feisar_: its excellent. still waiting on a few basic fixes, since it is alpha and restricted to early adopters group
<feisar_> did I see that it can use Andoird apps (I'd need ownCloud)
<diddledan> annoyingly I've got a financial investment in google play movies/tv so it's kinda difficult for me to consider running alternative systems
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy No Housework Day! :-D
<diddledan> JamesTait: you gonna do it for me
<diddledan> ?
<JamesTait> diddledan, if you do mine. ;)
<diddledan> lol
<JamesTait> I got off to a bad start when I was still ironing at midnight. :-P
<jussi> people still iron...?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> How are you brobostigon
<brobostigon> not bad, headache. and you?
<diddledan> jussi: from what I gather the americans don't understand irony
<diddledan> ironing*
<diddledan> I once tried to convince an american that the word subtle existed and had meaning
<jussi> diddledan: :D
<knightwise> hey everyone
 * diddledan throws a gauntlet at knightwise's feet
<diddledan> you think _you're_ a knight?!
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> ok, I didn't sleep much last night - emergency maintenance required on a server - so I'm a bit hyperactive today
<directhex> not a wise one though
 * knightwise moves diddledan to /dev/zero
<knightwise> * kids .. gauntlets ... Bah Humbug ! *
<diddledan> I like humbugs
<Dave2> I hope everyone who wanted to go on the beer train has bought their ticket
<MooDoo> yes sit
<MooDoo> yes sir
<Dave2> (As they've sold out)
<bigcalm> :O
<davmor2> Morning all
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 2nd August 2014 Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2745-real-ale-train-2014/
<bigcalm> I currently have 1 spare (assuming that my wife really isn't joining us)
<mapps> :D
<mapps> spurs spurs spurs :D
 * mapps off to spurs tonight
<mapps> missed a parcel at 10;35 grr
<mapps> set my alarm for 11
<bigcalm> o.O
<mapps> just surprisedi didnt wake up
<mapps> then again i had to take a nytol to sleep
<diddledan> wtf? it's 11:20 already?!
<diddledan> where did the morning go?!
<mapps> yea
<foobarry> 3rd day in a row of heavy parenting...exhausted
<foobarry> had to do the sainsburys shop with 2 little ones ..ugh
<popey> not done that for years
<foobarry> somehow spent over 100 quid
<popey> \o/ online shopping ftw
<foobarry> but Â£30 of it was nappies and Â£10 was the hobbit
<mapps> sainsburys is ok
<diddledan> heavy parenting? is that like a more X-rated version of heavy-petting?
<mapps> way better than tesco -- way less busy here
<mapps> D
<mapps> :D
<foobarry> it means not just looking after kids at home but taking them places :(
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> lol @ the hobbit - every-day essentials only
<directhex> if only i could get away with the hobbit
<directhex> the boy demands to watch sarah & duck. over and over and over
<directhex> the same 7 minutes
<mapps> cor what a ripoff
<mapps> y friends paid 240 quid for bayern munich tickets
<mapps> er a ticket even..2+ wouldnt be as bad :)
<popey> lolball
<mapps> lol
<popey> I've only ever been to two football matches.
<popey> both after the age of 30
<mapps> i applied for tickets from the directy but said i missed out in both ballots
<directhex> footlol
<popey> thats better
<directhex> yeah
<mapps> my ticket for spurs was 54 quid!!
<foobarry> ugh i hate disney dvds
<mapps> that seemed a ripoff
<mapps> foobarry why?
<foobarry> so much crap to wade through
<foobarry> and disney brainwashing
<popey> meh, stop, menu, main feature, play
<foobarry> nope, not this one
<directhex> foobarry, no, now they have a special "fast play" option, that avoids all those messy menus! note: fast play will forcibly play all trailers
<foobarry> yes directhex !
<Dave2> Rip to server, stream over protocol of choice
<directhex> like old vhs!
<MartijnVdS> use netflix
<MartijnVdS> no trailers
<foobarry> i just fell for the fastplay
 * popey â¥  Netflix
<popey> especially for chromecast
<popey> nexus 7 as remote
<foobarry> Dave2: rip to server takes ages
<Dave2> Since upgrading from a 2008 Core 2 Duo to a 2013 i7 I have yet to actually use the power to encode a DVD (or blu-ray). I feel like buying something just to have the excuse.
<Dave2> foobarry: good things come to those who wait.
<foobarry> except disney
<foobarry> the film is for my son
<foobarry> as a reward for filling up his reward jar
<Dave2> Thinking about it, I don't actually have a way to play an optical disc on my TV.
<foobarry> my new laptopdoesn't have a opticaldrive
<foobarry> http://ubuntuone.com/7B2B2EJIOOCn3X5tdl5kca
<foobarry> wario joins the 8 bit irl club
<popey> hehe, nice
<foobarry> apparently wario was showing me where all the food was in sainsburys
<bashrc> sainsburys has food?
<bigcalm> python peeps - how do I get around this error? :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/7216467/
<bigcalm> Oops, not python. It's ruby :)
<diddledan> bigcalm: use apt
<bigcalm> Sure, what package though?
<diddledan> bigcalm: ruby-libxml
<diddledan> or if you insist on building it yourself you'll want libxml2-dev and build-essential
<bigcalm> Wah, it was in my original apt-get line but didn't actually get installed
<bigcalm> I'm quite confused
<bigcalm> !info libxml-ruby
<lubotu3> libxml-ruby (source: ruby-libxml): Transitional package for ruby-libxml. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.3.2-1 (saucy), package size 1 kB, installed size 28 kB
<bigcalm> !info ruby-libxml
<lubotu3> ruby-libxml (source: ruby-libxml): Ruby Bindings for LibXML2. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.3.2-1 (saucy), package size 131 kB, installed size 450 kB
<bigcalm> That's why it didn't work
<bigcalm> diddledan: ta :)
<diddledan> just pasting two package infos doesn't tell us anything about "why it didn't work" :-)
<bigcalm> It didn't work because I had one installed rather than the other
<bigcalm> Two very similar names confused me
<diddledan> aha, so "it was in [your] original apt-get" was actually erroneous :-p
<bigcalm> Yes
 * diddledan needs a pedant warning on his forehead btw
<bigcalm> Oh god
<bigcalm> Installing libxml-ruby also installs ruby-libxml
<diddledan> bingo
 * bigcalm grrs at package maintainers
<diddledan> that's why it's labelled a "transitional package"
<bigcalm> By whom? I don't look at those things
<bigcalm> I'm just trying to get vagrant working :)
<diddledan> by the package maintainers
<diddledan> apt-cache info the package or !info in here as you just did - read the text and it tells you it's transitional
<diddledan> transitional packages should always tell you in their description what package they're superseded by, and apt-cache info will confirm by listing that superseding package as a depends
<bigcalm> Ah, yes. If I were to ready that it might have made sense
<bigcalm> (to me)
<bigcalm> The point I was trying to make is that there are 2 packages with very similar names that can trip up a non ruby user
<diddledan> <-- non-ruby user
<diddledan> :-p
<jussi> ruby...
<jussi> I tried that once...
<diddledan> didn't like it, jussi ?
<jussi> diddledan: I got so confused I gave up.
<bigcalm> ERROR:  Error installing veewee:
<bigcalm> 	nokogiri requires Ruby version >= 1.9.2.
<bigcalm> *ARGH*
<bigcalm> Wish 14.04 would hurry up and release so that I can move my dev server to it and have ruby 1.9 on there without having to faff about with building it myself or using a ppa
<diddledan> bigcalm: it's in final beta, might be ok
<bigcalm> diddledan: might be, but it's critical to my work
<diddledan> eep
<bigcalm> That's why I'm using 12.04 on my dev server - it's an LTS
<diddledan> bingo
<bigcalm> I'll move to 14.04 on my dev server in August maybe
<diddledan> the recommendation from canonical is to wait for 14.04.1 before upgrading a 12.04 IIRC
<diddledan> mostly so that they can iron the kinks out of the upgrade
<bigcalm> Which should be around August maybe?
<bigcalm> Indeed
<DJones> The .1 release for 12.04 was late august
<DJones> and the same for 10.04.1
<diddledan> 14.04 GM tends to be good for new installs, and the .1 for upgrades
<bigcalm> See, my memory isn't that shoddy :D
<bigcalm> Yep, I have 14.04 on my laptop as it was a fresh install. Seems to be working well
<diddledan> I mean the .04 vs .04.1 (ignoring the year delimiter)
<DJones> bigcalm: Have to agree with that, my 14.04 has been rock solid so far
 * knightwise seriously considering putting 14.04 on his laptop
<knightwise> and doing a wipe and install
<shauno> ooh, adafruit bring new toys surprisingly quick.  I'm too used to waiting 3 years for china
<MooDoo> knightwise: might as well wait to release now it's only a few weeks :D
<knightwise> true.
<knightwise> on my main systems i'm still runnign 12.04
<knightwise> I hope they bring out a new version of Elementary OS pretty soon
<knightwise> a very very good spin on Ubuntu
<shauno> knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzSPGkOyzW8
<knightwise> I know :) I saw it ! :)
<knightwise>  i have elementary OS running on my wifes imac
<shauno> it does look interesting  (and this is from someone who believes the "year of the linux desktop" has been & gone)
<knightwise> I hate that statement
<knightwise> Ive been using Linux as my daily driver for over a year now
<knightwise> there is never going to be " a big breakthrough " untill we stop focusing on "the big breakthrough"
<bashrc> likewise I think that the "year of the linux desktop" was 2006/7
<bashrc> it's a different era now
<diddledan> linux is ubiquitous in embedded and mobile
<diddledan> certainly in consumer
<shauno> heh, I wasn't trying to start a gripe.  just "interesting enough to pique a grouch"
<bigcalm> Any idea how to find out what version of a ruby gem is installed?
<MooDoo> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1621405/how-to-tell-which-version-of-a-gem-a-rails-app-is-using
<bigcalm> Heh, ta
<bigcalm> gem list
<foobarry> bigcalm: lok at rvm
<foobarry> rvm solves the ruby versioning issues
<bigcalm> ?
<bigcalm> Oh
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> Version issues will be resolved once 14.04 LTS is released :)
<foobarry> rvm is the best way forward tho
<bigcalm> Quite possibly :)
<shauno> curious, are you waiting for 14.04 to solve everything, or waiting for 14.04.1?
<knightwise> I think i'll wait for 14.4.1
<foobarry> does 14.04  need more resources to run than 12.04?
<shauno> happy toys :)  http://cl.ly/image/362r1C3v0e0H  (ignore the scratches, it still has the plastic film on it)
<diddledan> shauno: nice
<diddledan> shauno: issit fondleable?
<diddledan> aah, on the left - yes it is
<diddledan> "w/Touch Screen"
<shauno> ahh.  google translate wasn't sure what you meant.  haven't dabbled with the touchscreen yet, but yeah, it has a resistive doodad
<bigcalm> Nice, our road has turned into a river
<DJones> Send the water to sheffield, they may be able to do their half marathon
<diddledan> haha: http://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/how-a-five-year-old-hacked-his-dads-xbox-one-only-to-be-rewarded-by-microsoft-video-8316.html
<MooDoo> i read that the other day, unbelievable
<selinuxium> Hi all   o/
<brobostigon> hi selinuxium
<selinuxium> how is brobo cop?
<selinuxium> Hi nickp666
<nickp666> Hi selinuxium
<brobostigon> not bad , and you selinuxium ?
<selinuxium> Stress levels are near Postal... XP refresh deployment... Invitation to Tender for an our hosted Services and the usual day to day...
<selinuxium> But still quite smily... :)
<MartijnVdS> XP deployment? still?
<selinuxium> I.... Know...
<selinuxium> :)
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<selinuxium> M$ saying conflicting things in the media on whether they were going to backtrack again...
<MartijnVdS> they'll probably only backtrack for a lot of money
<MartijnVdS> otherwise governments around the world will become angry because they overpaid
<brobostigon> delaying the inevitable.
<selinuxium> When they finally dropped the hammer the business reacted slowly..
<MartijnVdS> they should have migrated the minute MS announced end-of-life, years ago
<MartijnVdS> or at least started planning it
<brobostigon> you would have thought.
<selinuxium> It is very difficult to describe this place..
<selinuxium> The franchise agreement is such that the franchisees look after their local IT... So it is difficult for us to make them upgrade until we have reason to ban them from our net.
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: "Hell, circle n" (1 <= n <= 9)
<selinuxium> :)
<selinuxium> Welcome to my world!
<selinuxium> (warm isn't it)
<shauno> we only migrated off XP last month :(
<MartijnVdS> shauno: our customers still use IE8, some on XP
<MartijnVdS> we write a web-based app... :(
<MartijnVdS> yay government!
<shauno> heh, we have IE8.  and 32bit win7.
<shauno> (the latter really annoys me, because my machine has 8GB in it)
<MartijnVdS> I love my XPS-12 with Ubuntu ;)
<selinuxium> MartijnVdS, I have the XPS12 flippy screen Laptop... I ran Trust on a USB on it... Lovely...
<selinuxium> Wish I could go back to using Ubuntu full time.. in fact.. I might just do that.
<selinuxium> Any more news on the release party?
<selinuxium> Looking at popey ^^^    :)
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: it is
<popey> selinuxium: will send out an update mail a bit later
<selinuxium> Thanks popey   :)
<dwatkins> How is it that I get so knackered when I spend all day sitting down?
<bigcalm> Lots of thinking?
<dwatkins> indeed, yes
<Laney> wow
<Laney> just started chucking it down
<jpds> Laney: Bit early, isn't it?
<diddledan> *yawn*
<diddledan> must be nearly time to sleep
<shauno> well proud of myself.  turned a mffr's terrible table of values into one line of dead-simple math
<bigcalm> +s
<shauno> :(
<shauno> I'm curious how my scales think they're weighing ml, since they don't seem to believe 1g=1ml
<shauno> (or more accurately, I'm curious how badly the difference will affect my cake)
<diddledan> apparently peaches geldof is dead
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> what is it with young celebs?!
<daftykins> i know, right
<daftykins> 25 :|
<daftykins> didn't have a clue about her, but still
<bashrc> I didn't know anything about the geldof offspring
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> hey bigcalm
<daftykins> morning O_O
<daftykins> oh wait yeah we've been over that
<daftykins> ;D
<bigcalm> UGT
<popey> pip pip
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-08
<MooDoo> morning a
<jussi> poor moodoo, got cut off mid sentence... :P
<knightwise> Morning everyone
<Myrtti> Amazon lightning deals with DIY stuff today
<Myrtti> for those tinkering ubuntuites with an itch for pottering around the house with a toolbelt
<MartijnVdS> had to order a new disk for my NAS :(
<MartijnVdS> SMART was starting to cry
<knightwise> Morning MartijnVdS Myrtti
<mapps> yo
<mapps> tottenham
<mapps> FU 5-1
<mapps> NEVER IN DOUBT
<mapps> :))
<mapps> we are tottenham
<mapps> i went to the spurs bar after the game in n17
<mapps> another cunting
<mapps> 200 quidnight
<mapps> i had 250 on me got Â£10 now
<mapps> ;/
<jussi> mapps: good win, but might want to remember there are children here, so lets try and keep the language a little clean :)
<mapps> hi jussi
<mapps> :)
<mapps> good win? i came back with Â£10 went with Â£250
<mapps> the spurs game cost me like
<jussi> mapps: liverpool got a decent win on the weekend, despite the referee trying his best to ruin the game
<mapps> 250 cash + 54 ticket + 96 train:(
<jussi> mapps: so? are you a spurs fan? :P
<mapps> you shouldve seen jussi
<mapps> in n17 2mins from white hart lane
<mapps> after the game theyu were loving it
<mapps> till like 2am
<jussi> hehe
<mapps> :D
<jussi> damn its cold here.
<mapps> sent my friend a picture..bellend said i wasnt there
<jussi> and we ran out of wood, so I am paying through the nose for electrical heat
<mapps> i was in N17 ..and i was in the pub after
<mapps> was good
<mapps> oh
<mapps> we pay for electric heat here jussi in the normal world;p
<mapps> but yea it was really really good
<jussi> mapps: :P
<mapps> :D
<mapps> wel
<mapps> i hear finlands like dark most the year
<mapps> my memories still really sketchy
<mapps> :(
<mapps> hate being asked for ancigarette
<jussi> yeah, its dark for a lot of the year - especially up north
<mapps> got asked loads again last night..i paid 9.10 for a pack!!
<mapps> so i dont have any 'spares'
<mapps> you watch the game last night?
<mapps> WHEN it went 0-1 i was kinda worried LOL
<jussi> mapps: I watched a few mins at the start - was a pretty poor goal to give away
<mapps> 5-1 ft was good though
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i was sat east row16
<jussi> right, so I need a flow chart app on Kubuntu - any one used something they liked?
<popey> isn't there a visio like on kde?
<popey> kivio or something?
 * jussi goes to search...
<jussi> oh, its part of calligra now :D
<jussi> !info calligra-flow
<jussi> thanks popey
<lubotu3> Package calligra-flow does not exist in saucy
<mapps> gah
<mapps> im such an addict
<mapps> looking at aussie horse racing
<jussi> !info calligraflow
<lubotu3> calligraflow (source: calligra): flowcharting program for the Calligra Suite. In component universe, is optional. Version 1:2.7.2-0ubuntu2 (saucy), package size 101 kB, installed size 471 kB
<mapps> i layed a horse in the last race to lose Â£250
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> !info openssl
<lubotu3> openssl (source: openssl): Secure Socket Layer (SSL) binary and related cryptographic tools. In component main, is standard. Version 1.0.1e-3ubuntu1.2 (saucy), package size 503 kB, installed size 895 kB
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yes, there was an update
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: to 1.0.1e has been patched for heartbleed?
<bashrc_> morning
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2165-1/
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> good morning, sir
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<knightwise> morning dwatkins
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey knightwise
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Be Kind To Lawyers Day! :-D
<kvarley> I'm getting started with compass and sass on ubuntu and I need to install bundler. Two packages are available - bundler and ruby-bundler ... which do I need ?
<kvarley> NVM got info from software centre rather than just using basic apt info
<diplo> Heartbeat strikes again :)
<MooDoo> hello all
<directhex> STOP STEALING MY SSL KEYS :<
<MooDoo> er sorry ;)
<diplo> heh directhex
<directhex> GIVE THEM BACK SRSLY
<popey> "lol" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=newNF1UsOcw
<popey> "MICHAEL!"
<awilkins> "Get some Febreeze or something!"  ... yeah, that really helps with lithium inhalation poisoning
 * bigcalm cracks up
 * Seeker` gets some polyfilla
<foobarry> whats the one line summary of the ssl situation?
<foobarry> updates, POC, etc
<andrewebdev> apparently there is already a fixed openssl version
<andrewebdev> http://heartbleed.com/
<jussi> foobarry: biggest screwup in a long time! :D
<MooDoo> fix released, I think you just need to install it. and restart any service that uses openssl etc
<andrewebdev> https://www.openssl.org/news/secadv_20140407.txt
<foobarry> thx
<foobarry> aka the NSA backdoor@?
<MooDoo> I don't think it's that bad lol
<foobarry> ". Without using any privileged information or credentials we were able steal from ourselves the secret keys used for our X.509 certificates, user names and passwords, instant messages, emails and business critical documents and communication."
<bigcalm> MooDoo: and generate new CSRs to get new certificates
<foobarry> "This allows attackers to eavesdrop communications, steal data directly from the services and users and to impersonate services and users."
<MooDoo> bigcalm: that as well.
 * bigcalm grumbles
<bigcalm> 188 packages can be updated.
<bigcalm> 116 updates are security updates.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> hey MooDoo how's life?
 * bigcalm hugs Myrtti 
 * MooDoo hugs bigcalm huggin Myrtti 
<Myrtti> I seem to be acting as a cat bed again
 * czajkowski pokes popey 
<czajkowski> ello :) is there a sign up to release party in london
<MooDoo> not on this page czajkowski http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/  has an event page been created yet?
<MooDoo> the only thing on their is the RAT for the uk
<popey> I'll make one later
<czajkowski> popey: excellent
<czajkowski> it all goes into the calendar so I know where to go
<czajkowski> popey++
<popey> \o/ parcel from ebay arrived
<popey> i love ebay parcels because I forget i bought them
<jussi> popey: :D
<jussi> popey: what was the surprise today, if we may know?
<popey> batteries for my quadcopter
<jussi> ahh, now you can have some fun! :D
<popey> ya, well, more than 10 mins of fun
<popey> got 5 of them, so maybe an hour of flying
<popey> well, an hour of crashing â»
<jussi> nice. now oyu can spy on the neighbours
<popey> no camera
<popey> (yet)
<jussi> shouldnt be too hard to fix... :P
<jussi> go buy a gopro :D
<popey> its way too small for that
<popey> its *tiny*
<MooDoo> jussi: i did the other day :D
<jussi> MooDoo: ! you came back! :D
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/HUBSAN-X4-H107-Quadcopter-LEDs/dp/B009M1PO7W
<popey> thats the one i have
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hubsan-Quadcopter-Camera-Radio-Controller/dp/B00EDNI8YK has a camera
<MooDoo> popey: I'm going with a dji phantom :)
<directhex> yawn
<directhex> i need more sleep
<jussi> "Permits super stable flight" - that popey hasnt mastered yet... :P
<popey> oh its stable
<popey> i'm just scared of it flying off into neighbours garden so not flown it too high yet
<popey> want to take it to the park at the weekend
<jussi> sigh... all the pringles are gone :/
<MooDoo> jussi: shop it that way ------>
<jussi> MooDoo: sssh
<MooDoo> :)
<Laney> super secure shell
<awilkins> Super Secure Shell is a product of the NSA! From the leading name in secure communications, for the ultimate in trust! (tm)
<dvrr> MooDoo: Hiiiiiiiiiiiii
<jussi> awilkins: nice..... :P
<MooDoo> yay openssh rocks
<foobarry> It has a fatal design flaw in the body, in that it has holes in the bottom. This means that if you land (or crash !) the H4 on anything remotely damp (like grass) it shorts out the camera PCB, the CPU being upside down and visible through one of the holes. This means that the wonderful video of you erratically careering about the sky is now lost.
<awilkins> So bored I'm contemplating living riskily and upgrading my working desktop to Trusty
<MooDoo> awilkins: it's realased in a couple of weeks, don't think it's that risky.
<awilkins> I upgraded my laptop
<Myrtti> oof
<Myrtti> well
<awilkins> But that's just a couch browser
<foobarry> Also flight times of 8 minutes plus are advertised but I have never been able to get more than 4 minutes and that is with the LED lights turned off.
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> shame these things neer quite live up to expectation
<foobarry> popey: can u take a photo of the QCopter in your hand to show scale pls?
<jussi> foobarry: have you met popey before?  he has very big hands... :D
<awilkins> You know what they say about men with big hands.
<awilkins> Big ....
<popey> hah
<awilkins> .... gloves.
<popey> sure
<popey> foobarry: those reviews don't match my experience
<popey> but i dont have the camera one
<foobarry> the non camera one has "105cm  x 105cm" , i think they mean 105mm
<popey> foobarry: http://imgur.com/JBP1sOL
<foobarry> thank you. as expected, like the revell mini quad, 105cm is a typo
<popey> np
<popey> its jolly good fun
<popey> pretty rapid too, from ground to "omg that's high!" in no time
<popey> then very soon to "shit shit shit, which way is it facing"
<popey> note grass stains on the white blades â»
<foobarry> so when they say in reviews "i lost my first one..."
<popey> quite possible
<popey> i read the docs carefully
<popey> if you push the throttle up to full tilt it will just go straight up
<popey> and if the wind takes it, it's off..
<popey> you have to be a bit gentle
<foobarry> can your kid fly it?
<popey> not let them try
<popey> its hard enough for me!
<knightwise> hmm..
<knightwise> I'm thinking : To 14.04 or not to 14.04
<MattJ> I 14.04'd a couple of weeks back
<MattJ> Has been just fine
<MooDoo> yeah seems fine for me as well
<popey> \o/ 14.04
<SuperMatt> looking forward to next thursday \o/
<SuperMatt> I just hope the new version of ssl will be in the final images
<SuperMatt> HINT HINT
<knightwise> I'm not sure if i'm gonna put it on my Lenovo twst
<SuperMatt> What are you running on there now?
<knightwise> Ill be using that laptop for my freelance gig
<knightwise> and it has to be rocksteady
<popey> foobarry: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hubsan-X4-H107-Crash-kit-USB-Charger-Body-Shell-Battery-4-Propellers-4-Motors-/261419622923
<popey> i love the idea of a little plastic box with a crash kit in it â»
<dwatkins> bring us the crash cart, nurse!
<MooDoo> dwatkins: popey stars in "extreame nursing" hehe
<knightwise> seems to run ok on the dell XPS 13
<jussi> "popey with a crash cart - on a trampoline!" :D
<bigcalm> That's a rather odd version of Cluedo
<jussi> hehe
<SuperMatt> is 12.04 affected by heartbleed?
<bigcalm> Yes
<popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2165-1/
<shauno> yay - for once I'm not in trouble for still being on 10.04
<bigcalm> o.O
<SuperMatt> huh, I've just run an update and upgrade and before I pressed anything I can't see libssl in the packages
<bigcalm> openssl
<SuperMatt> or openssl
<SuperMatt> ah, they were automatically upgraded
<bigcalm> Anybody got a good RFC template?
<SuperMatt> "Please do the needful"
<SuperMatt> that's all you'll ever need
<andy_turfer> Hello.
<popey> Turns out there's a lot of dust inside a 2009 iMac that lives in a kitchen and has never been taken apart
<directhex> and grease, i expect
<Seeker`> popey: there was a serious amount of dust inside my media backend that hasn't been opened in 2 years, which was sitting in the corner of the living room
<popey> not too much, i took the imac outside and blew it and it all flew away
<popey> so not too sticky inside
<SuperMatt> question: zsh instead of bash as default in future ubuntus?
 * bigcalm uses the leaf blower on computers that need dust removal
<SuperMatt> that's a good idea
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: I'm guessing that you have the day off or something?
<SuperMatt> nope
<SuperMatt> I was on lunch for a bit
<SuperMatt> not now though
<bigcalm> Just that you're here :P
<SuperMatt> I just left the window open
<bigcalm> Tsk!
<SuperMatt> I'm also not working the phones today, so I have a little more freedom
<MooDoo> yay
<MooDoo> are you having fun
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: have you put your flag up?
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: I haven't passed my probation yet
<SuperMatt> 21st is when it's likely to go up
<bigcalm> Flag of the flying spaghetti monster?
<SuperMatt> I'm hoping for a batman flag
<dwatkins> this is my flag: http://www.pross-it.de/brickosaic/images/space_logo.jpg
<SuperMatt> is that the one from lego?
<dwatkins> yeah SuperMatt
<dwatkins> I'll just leave this here, too... http://www.redbubble.com/people/samuriferret/works/11706330-1980-something-falcon-distressed
<SuperMatt> woo! 80s pop culture!
<SuperMatt> sneaky and geeky
<SuperMatt> nice
<SuperMatt> I kinda want that
<dwatkins> yeah, bought one for myself and one for my brother.
<dwatkins> he might be 43, but he still plays with Lego.
<popey> The only annoyance after taking the iMac all apart, replacing the HDD and putting it back together is the fans are at full tilt
<dwatkins> did you reset the PRAM, popey?
<popey> no
<dwatkins> might be worth a go.
<popey> ta
<dwatkins> also, try resetting the SMC: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964?viewlocale=en_US
<popey> ok, ta
<popey> dwatkins: how do you reset PRAM with a bluetooth keyboard?
<popey> dwatkins: not an apple one
<popey> nvm, I'll have a play later
<dwatkins> hmm, there's probably a way you can re-map the relevant keys
<dwatkins> I have a friend who has decided to switch to Windows 7 on their little office server because "installing Linux takes too long" *sigh*
 * bashrc facepalm
<DJones> \o/ New car ordered
<bigcalm> DJones: what did you go for?
<DJones> bigcalm: Vauxhall Insignia estate in the end
<bigcalm> Fair enough
<DJones> bigcalm: I didn't find the pedal position too comfortable on the 407, brake pedal was out of position for what I expected
<DJones> Plus the boot on the estate was a bit too small for putting a dog cage in
<bigcalm> Yeah, the boot is an odd shape
<DJones> Yeah, even the insignia has a bit of an odd shaped boot, but thats something we can get round with a sloped side cage
<popey> Hmm, these new quad-copter batteries charge like the original one, but the LED on the charging USB stick never goes out at the end, it just flickers like a bad connection â¨
<popey> the original one, the lights go out
<popey> new ones are 250mAh vis the original 240mAh.. both 3.7v
<popey> they are very cheap, so don't expect them to last forever
<daftykins> popey: they might be early cylons
<daftykins> </Battlestar Galactica>
<popey> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/08/google_kills_virus_app_after_decompilation_proves_its_a_fake/
<popey> time to make one for ubuntu touch and rake it in
<neuro> wow
<neuro> kinda defeats the point of a curated app store
<neuro> also, evenin all
<daftykins> i bet its' size gave it away :>
<popey> well, ours isn't curated
<popey> so I suspect you could do the same until someone reports it
<neuro> CROWDSOURCING!
<popey> although you wont actually be able to charge for it yet â»
<twager> My computer has started to freeze no input from mouse/kboard or vid,this happens after a few minutes yet a live cd will run all day,any ideas what I should be looking for memtest shows nothing amiss
<zleap> hello
<daftykins> hi
<zleap> how is it going
<daftykins> none too shabby and yourself?
<zleap> i am good
<zleap> i think i left my keyboard at the school i help at
<zleap> its a small one so ideal for the pi and I have a pi jam on Saturday
<daftykins> doh!
<zleap> yeah
<daftykins> what kind of help do you give? :)
<daftykins> twager: sorry btw, i see you there but i have no suggestions
<zleap> we are running an after school coding, hacking, hardware club
<daftykins> neat, secondary level?
<zleap> primary or based in primary but cater for ks2 and ks3
<zleap> we have pi,s brick pi and lego mindstorms
<daftykins> that's one lucky school
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> well we managed to get some mindstorms from other schools
<zleap> so have loads, as they were not using it
<zleap> so hopefully what we are doing will inspire them to use it
<zleap> so being on a monday we are back the week after easter monday,  then the week after is another bank holiday and then we are back to every week after that with any luck,
<zleap> i am sure the people doing the group would come and hack this stuff all day if they could
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> perhaps with so many spares it'd be tempting to arrange loan-kits
<daftykins> although also you probably can't trust youngsters with such a thing, be quite the headache
<zleap> i think we could,
<zleap> we have loads of netbooks too, which some have been upgraded to linux,  we also dual booted 2 computers to Ubuntu
<daftykins> :o
<zleap> we are moving to another computer room so may end up dual booting those too :) so lots of potential for softtware development,
<zleap> so by thje time we go back I aim to have a few 32 / 64 bit dvds made up
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> you could even be bold and go straight for 14.04
<zleap> that is what i mean
<zleap> by the time we go back after easter 14.04 will be out
<zleap> next thursday
<daftykins> \o/
<zleap> so we are back the moday after easter monday so a few weeks
<zleap> labels are ready
<zleap> well both ubuntu and xubuntu lables
<daftykins> yay some auto emailing fixed on some RAID controllers, silly ISP changing their mail server IP
<zleap> at the pi jam i am hoping to dual boot a netbook with xubuntu
<daftykins> what a fitting time given XP's dead as of today
<daftykins> well, technically 8th May
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> today
<zleap> 8th may
<daftykins> well yes but 8th May would be when the first patch tuesday it misses is
<zleap> ah
<daftykins> so exploits in other products will directly affect it as no patches will be there
<zleap> i am looking at setting up a coder dojo in torbay
<daftykins> that sounds like a south-west place i keep hearing mentioned on BBC Spotlight :>
<daftykins> (we get them after our local news)
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> where are you then
 * zleap is in Paignton
<daftykins> Guernsey
<zleap> ah
<zleap> so how are things over there Linux user wise
<daftykins> i'm sure there are some but i know of no LUG
<zleap> ok
<zleap> well for us the pi jam is the new lug meet
<daftykins> there's a little kind of nerd night thing i've heard about on the first Monday of each month, but the turnout looks to be about 8 people X|
<zleap> that is still good
<daftykins> ooh you're just along from that Dawlish railway that just got repaired
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> so we are no longer cut off
<daftykins> yay :D
<zleap> also means 3 more people can come to the pi jam who would normally miss it due to trans being out
<daftykins> used to go on holidays to Fowey as a kid
<zleap> i have heard of Fowey thats in cornwall right
<daftykins> yep
<zleap> i think the torbay members of the devon and cornwall lug are the most active
<zleap> and exeter
<zleap> i want to get more coders in Torbay,  so we can have a peer support group and introduce more kids to programming
<zleap> the minecraft group was a programming group origianally
<daftykins> minecraft? as in they all play together? :)
<zleap> yeah
<daftykins> brb gotta restart this VMs host
<zleap> ok
<zleap> wb
 * zleap is downloading 13.10 manual
<daftykins> ty ^_^
<zleap> i take it there will be one for 14.04 too
<daftykins> the VMs may be Linux, but the host is not, heh
<zleap> which as that is long term support would be good to get printed version from lulu.com
<daftykins> i'd imagine it gets updated and released around the time yeah
<zleap> yeah
<popey> usually shortly after release iirc
<zleap> yeah i guess its easier now they can just add new bits to the manual
<zleap> popey, i will keep an eye out for it
<daftykins> popey: drama on Sunday - https://www.dropbox.com/s/5c0r07jppoi5crn/IMG_20140406_195550.jpg
<zleap> daftykins, is there a right click share context entry for xubuntu to share dropbox content
<zleap> i can't find it
<daftykins> not sure i'm afraid, not used dropbox on ubuntu
<zleap> ok
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/h0foo0oj6w9iupy/IMG_20140406_200134.jpg
<daftykins> ^ shortly after
<popey> Oh noes!
<daftykins> i know - i was starting to think up a rescue plan :S
<daftykins> thankfully she slid herself down on her tummy :D
<zleap> how to remove a cat from a tree
<daftykins> certainly lived up to her name 'Mischief' that day
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> maybe calling a cat mischief is a bad omen
<daftykins> :D i kinda inherited her so thankfully don't hold the blame for that one
<zleap> ah
<mapps> ugh full up
<mapps> so how to fix my pesky apache
<daftykins> remove that thing you put on!
<daftykins> http://www.saveie6.com/
<daftykins> this is hilarious
<daftykins> zleap: good chatting, good luck with the plans :)
<daftykins> i'm heading for a restaurant meal \o/
<zleap> thanls
<zleap> sorry i was building a 555 timer circuit
<daftykins> np :>
<mapps> wow this ch4 show 26k in rent arrears sheesh
<mapps> imagine that high court officers turning up and giving uou 2 hours to leave
<mapps> gah daftykins dont know how tried with apt-get remove zentyal but still bits lurking around
<zleap> daftykins, this is what i was building earlier http://zleap.net/555-timer-revisited/
<zleap> just installed cheese to take that photoi and it installs brassero cd burner and a stack of other stuff along with it
<daftykins> zleap: neat :) also that's an odd dependancy 0o
<daftykins> mapps: "dpkg -l | grep zentyal" ?
<zleap> daftykins, i thought that
<directhex> i live!
<shauno> pics or it didn't happen?
<brobostigon> is it possible, to reset a package back to maintained version, when as default it doesnt change any user adaptions, and package upgrade cause execution failiure of said package?
<daftykins> i think APT pinning lets you stick with a specific older version?
<daftykins> if i'm following you right
<diddledan> ho boy: http://heartbleed.com/
<shauno> you can use confask if you want the maintainer's config files back.  eg, sudo apt-get -o Dpkg::Options::="--force-confask" install --reinstall yourpackage
<shauno> that gets you the "your conf file isn't the same as the maintainer's conf file, would you like to a) b) c)" prompt
<shauno> (not sure I've parsed the question correctly either  heh)
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah suddenly getting loads of question askers in #ubuntu
<diddledan> afaik ubuntu released a patch yesterday or earlier today
<diddledan> I recall seeing an announcement anywho
<diddledan> annoying that most of my work's servers are gentoo so I'm going to have to spend two days compiling
<shauno> curious, does "apt-get changelog libssl1.0.0"  give you anything useful? (404's on debian)
<diddledan> does openssh use openssl?
<diddledan> just wondering how vulnerable work is
<shauno> eh, update all the things anyway  :p
<diddledan> I still haven't updated all the things to "maintainable" yet
<diddledan> some of our servers are still in a state that I'm the only one who has the balls to update
<diddledan> read - 4 years of no patches leading to portage/emerge not working. at all.
<shauno> always a fine line between courage and stupidity :)
<diddledan> shauno: this is me
<shauno> gentoo in production is kinda scary though
<diddledan> shauno: I think it goes unsaid that I'm stupid
<diddledan> still. my stupidity has lead to our physical servers being upgraded to ubuntu. that's a win, right?
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> does it go something like this...
<daftykins> 1) diddledan upgrades 2) server is broken 3) diddledan to boss: "we need new servers"
<diddledan> bingo
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> oh how well everyone knows me :-p
<daftykins> 8)
<daftykins> it'd almost be worth it, the above strategy, if you knew how dire things were
<diddledan> it was actually more a case that to upgrade required a reboot, but crititcal services meant reboot was out of the question for the time being, so when the reboot is able to be scheduled it might as well be down slightly longer and fix a load of issues in one go
<diddledan> I got the tech team to coordinate a rolling wholesale upgrade with lots of shunting VMs about
<shauno> okay, as much sense as recursion makes.  not at midnight it doesn't.  my head is leaking.
<diddledan> it took two trips to the datacentre to actually install the ubuntu, (we don't have lights-out/ipmi or such) but now it's working nicely and we havne't had to worry since
<diddledan> shauno: recurse this!
<shauno> this is turning into more dirty hacks than I can keep track of.  it seems I simply can't count
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> diddledan: sounds like good progress \o/
<daftykins> alrighty g'night sirs o/
<diddledan> nn
<shauno> I should get a 0 tattooed on my left thumb :(
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/from-game-boy-to-skyscraper-playing-the-worlds-largest-game-of-tetris/
<shauno> trying to figure out how to even explain this to myself.  I have a .. fence.  16 panels. so 17 fenceposts.
<shauno> given an absolute position, I need to figure out which post is closest
<shauno> which seems stupidly easy, but I can't seem to get it right.  I figured totallength/16 to give the length of a panel, and then for a given position, divide it by that and round it
<shauno> either I'm completely missing something, or casting things to ints is a bad way to round them
<diddledan> casting to int will truncate, no?
<shauno> has any of this given you the impression I know the answer to that?  ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-09
<diddledan> http://store.steampowered.com/app/246900/
<shauno> I think I'm just gonna give up and go to sleep.  strings in C should be banned.
<ali1234> whaaaaat
<ali1234> depends on your definition of "round it" i guess
<diddledan> ali1234: I would guess by the context he meant massage to the _nearest_ integer
<diddledan> rather than floor or ceil
<mapps> whos still up then eh
 * diddledan hides
<mapps> :) been doing much?
<diddledan> this evening I been looking at posix implementations for windows
<diddledan> they all suck
<diddledan> (TM)
<mapps> heh
<diddledan> with only 8GB of RAM running a VM can get painful
<mapps> :D
<mapps> argh
<mapps> dpkg: error processing zentyal-core (--purge):
<mapps>  subprocess installed post-removal script returned error exit status 1
<mapps> Removing zentyal-common ...
<mapps> Purging configuration files for zentyal-common ...
<mapps> Errors were encountered while processing:
<mapps>  zentyal-core
<mapps> again
<MartijnVdS> mapps: check /var/lib/dpkg/info/zentyal-core.postrm
<MartijnVdS> mapps: find the line it's erroring on
<mapps> it hink its because ive half removed it
<mapps> what a mess
<MartijnVdS> it should be in the "dpkg" log a few lines above what you pasted
<MartijnVdS> mapps: ^
<mapps> oke:D lets see
<mapps> thanks
<diddledan> morning, MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> morning
<mapps> im not sure what im looking for :(
<mapps> ebox       648  0.0  0.2   9240  2568 ?        Ss   05:31   0:00 uwsgi --ignore-sigpipe --buffer-size 10240 --plugins 0:psgi --uid ebox --gid ebox --umask 000 -s /run/zentyal-webadmin/webadmin.sock --psgi /usr/share/zentyal/psgi/zentyal.psgi
<mapps> pesky things still running, which is why apache isnt working on non https
<mapps> =[
<diddledan> does anyone use microsoft's onedrive/office thingy?
<diddledan> I'm trying to get it to edit a newly created document and it's just failing outright
<diddledan> in chrome it says "a timeout occurred"
<diddledan> and in a windows vm running IE11 it says "this page cannot be displayed"
<MooDoo> moaning all
<diddledan> allo
<miseria> "los discursos politicos y su demagogia, para torturar un pueblo, son decorados con la frase: *derechos humanos*" bienvenidos: http://castroruben.com *temo_a_un_ser_sin_rival*
<diddledan> I was about to say the exact same thing
<MooDoo> what lol
<MooDoo> diddledan: ah it's about human rights
<diddledan> I couldn't be assed to gtranslate it
<MooDoo> i shouldn't have been really, but pah i'm a sucker
<diddledan> now then. why won't office365 work for me?
<MooDoo> you broke it?
<diddledan> I only wanted to see how it behaved with my file, but it won't even load on a blank document
<diddledan> https://office.live.com/start/excel.aspx fails, as does going via onedrive.live.com and clicking on an xlsx file
<MooDoo> I'm not at home or i'd try it myself
<diddledan> oh wait. it's suddenly working now
<diddledan> or not
<diddledan> the start/excel.aspx actually got further by displaying a splash but clicking through to a "new workbook" fails again
<diddledan> it's not limited to one system either
<diddledan> both a windows vm and my mac are failing
<jussi> morning all
<diddledan> ello jussi
<jussi> hi diddledan
<MooDoo> hello jussi
 * IoTDayCharredWin gives a shout out to www.mnubo.com as it be the IoTday - must be worth a tweet, huh .
<IoTDayCharredWin> leaves.
<MooDoo> wow another?
<jussi> oh hiya MooDoo :D
<MooDoo> yeah yeah jussi didn't see me ehÂ¬
<jussi> MooDoo: I was busy updating
<jussi> hrm, it is far too easy to accidentaly write busty instead of busy...
<MooDoo> oh done that a lot of times.
<diddledan> I'm often accused of being too busty
<MooDoo> especially to a female boss, I know your busty but can you.....
<jussi> heh
<jussi> thats an embarassing one...
<MooDoo> definately
<diddledan> https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1601365_10152364079174747_6567658946863416894_n.jpg
<diddledan> funny cat is funny
<smittix> Morning all
 * smittix yawns
<MooDoo> morning
<smittix> How goes MooDoo?
<bashrc> morning
<MooDoo> smittix: yeah fine thanks :D
<smittix> Good good. Morning bashrc
<smittix> You still using 14.04 MooDoo ?
<MooDoo> smittix: dual boot, win 8.1.1 and ubuntu
<smittix> Tried Elementary OS yesterday.
<smittix> Very pretty heh
<MooDoo> yeah I saw the video
<MooDoo> new version is based on 14.04 LTS
<smittix> Just doesn't feel as stable though
<smittix> Yeah ISIS looks hot.
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> smittix: what version of elementary ? the one based on 1204 ?
<knightwise> I have reinstalled my wifes imac with elementary
<MooDoo> knightwise: that's the only one that's available isn't it?  isis isn't released yet from what the video said
<knightwise> yep ,
<knightwise> but its a cool distro
<knightwise> nice mix between speed and looks
<knightwise> simple and done right.
 * knightwise thinks KDE should take a page from their book
<diplo> I want to send emails via a particular mail server so need to specify it, my company currently use a program called "email" on the cli which allows that
<diplo> Anyone recommend another ?
<diplo> mail doesn't offer that option as far as I can tell
<jussi> knightwise: elementary does some strange things that I would hat for KDE to do
<jussi> like binary configs for example...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> allo allo
<brobostigon> morning dwatkins
<BigRedS__> diplo: ssmtp? It basically replaces sendmail with something that punts everything at a smarthost
<diplo> BigRedS__: You read my mind, installed about 10 mins ago
<diplo> Just configuring nwo
<diplo> now*
<diplo> ta
<brobostigon> has anyone seen the following error, when tyring to install a new package. please.
<brobostigon> bin/sh: 1: /usr/sbin/apt-listbugs: not found
<brobostigon> E: Sub-process /usr/sbin/apt-listbugs apt returned an error code (127)
<brobostigon> E: Failure running script /usr/sbin/apt-listbugs apt
<brobostigon> Failed to perform requested operation on package.  Trying to recover:
<brobostigon> its blocking apt-get upgrade also.
<BigRedS__> at the risk of suggesting the obvious, can you apt-get install apt-listbugs?
<brobostigon> apt-listbugs is already the newest version.
<brobostigon> :)
<BigRedS__> oh
<brobostigon> and it is there. ls /usr/sbin/apt*
<brobostigon> /usr/sbin/apt-listbugs
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Cherish An Antique Day! :-D
 * DJones cherishes himself
 * brobostigon joins in.
 * jussi polishes DJones
<DJones> ooh shiny
<dogmatic69> \o
<DJones> I must be an iProduct :)
<dogmatic69> I got a new toy http://www.adafruit.com/products/609
<awilkins> Network question : Having problems with H2 (Java) databases because they set themselves up to listen on 127.0.1.1
<awilkins> e.g. adwi2@tachikoma:~/h2/bin$ java -cp h2-1.3.176.jar org.h2.tools.Server
<awilkins> TCP server running at tcp://127.0.1.1:9092 (only local connections)
<awilkins> PG server running at pg://127.0.1.1:5435 (only local connections)
<awilkins> Web Console server running at http://127.0.1.1:8082 (only local connections)
<bashrc> what is neTV?
<awilkins> But they don't listen to 127.0.1.1 but they will accept connections on 127.0.0.1
<awilkins> This sucks because apps that believe they are on 127.0.1.1 then fail to work
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ip addr show dev lo
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: it should have:
<MartijnVdS>     inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yup, do have that - inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
<awilkins> Ok, so the browser works if I fiddle with my proxy settings
<awilkins> (ie - turn off my PAC script)
 * awilkins adds an exception for his own hostname
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: check the hostname for 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts
<awilkins> Ok, that doesn't work
<awilkins> It's the right hostname
<awilkins> I've seen the Debian bug discussing this...
<awilkins> Main problem it's causing me is Jubula in Eclipse is refusing to connect to an embedded H2 database
<awilkins> Getting this in the stack dump : org.h2.jdbc.JdbcSQLException: Exception opening port H2 TCP Server (tcp://127.0.1.1:42457) (port may be in use), cause: timeout [90061-117]
<popey> Morning.
<awilkins> netstat sayeth : org.h2.jdbc.JdbcSQLException: Exception opening port H2 TCP Server (tcp://127.0.1.1:42457) (port may be in use), cause: timeout [90061-117]
<awilkins> Oops
<awilkins> tcp6       0      0 [::]:42457              [::]:*                  LISTEN
 * awilkins adds exception for 127.0.1.1 to Eclipse proxy settings
<awilkins> GRAARGH
 * awilkins turns off proxy in Eclipse
<awilkins> AT LAST
<awilkins> Ok, problem solved
<selinuxium> Morning ol
<selinuxium> o/
<awilkins> Well, changed
<awilkins> New problem is how to keep Eclipse connected to update sites and things through proxy...
<MartijnVdS> this kills the proxy
<jussi> today's music :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdiCJUysIT0
 * diddledan hunkers down for gentoo patch-hell
<awilkins> For Heartbleed bug?
<diddledan> yup
<andrewebdev> question.
<bigcalm> response
<awilkins> Ok, so turning off proxy totally in Eclipse makes it work, but configuring it properly doesn't. I hate proxies.
<awilkins> quip!
<andrewebdev> on Ubuntu server, can I just do a apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, to fix heartbleed?
<awilkins> andrewebdev, Yes
<diddledan> retort
<andrewebdev> once fix was applied?
<andrewebdev> cool thx
<andrewebdev> have the patch been pushed to the repos yet?
<awilkins> Heartbleed fix is already available in all current lsb-releases
<diddledan> andrewebdev: you should restart anything that uses ssl
<awilkins> Has been since yesterday
<andrewebdev> cool tyvm :)
<diddledan> I saw a nice one-liner to figure out which apps were using the old version but I've since lost it
<diddledan> something to do with /proc/*/map IIRC
<MartijnVdS> or just reboot
<diddledan> heh mission critical stuff can't be down for the length of a reboob
<jussi> this is pretty cool... http://www.ponomusic.com/
<bashrc> got the ubuntu one shutdown email.  I did use ubuntu one to some extent, but once I started running my own server then I no longer needed it.
<awilkins> Ubuntu One's major problem was the Windows client..
<awilkins> ..ironic
<awilkins> Well, and the Linux client
<jussi> nope. its major issue was no one cared...
<awilkins> Well, that too
<awilkins> No-one cared because the Windows client sucked hard though
<bashrc> I never even tried to use it on windows
<awilkins> When Dropbox generally works, why would you want to install something that doesn't work well, and has a name tied up with an OS that you are not using?
<jussi> Here is neil young talking about that Pono device: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa2rpJtUItE
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: the name Canonical One was taken
<awilkins> Now Dropbox has the name-recognition and you have the upstarts trying to get in on their turf by offering storage sizes an order of magnitude larger (and presumably, they also have clients that work well)
<awilkins> Dropbox could improve. The main thing that would make it better for me would be better proxy support
<awilkins> AFAICR the Ubuntu One client (at the time I tried it) didn't even support the system proxy settings on Ubuntu, and didn't have any proxy settings you could access on either platform.
<awilkins> Dropbox doesn't support PAC scripts, which is gripe one, and NTLMv2 auth, which is gripe 2, but at least you can manually configure it
<awilkins> Thanks for reminding me, actually, will have to migrate Mom to Dropbox.
<Myrtti> I use, when I need to use something to sync stuff with, either rsync to my own server, or Spideroak
<BigRedS__> Anyone know if dig is installed on OSX Mavericks by default?
<diddledan> BigRedS__: yes
<BigRedS__> whoop! ta
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS__> Good Morning!
<codecowboy> hi all. is there a one liner to list all users with ftp access?
<directhex> codecowboy, no, because it depends on your ftp server configuration
<codecowboy> directhex cool thanks. ps aux shows me sftp-server is running. i guess that means anyone with ssh can ftp in?
<directhex> SFTP isn't the same thing as FTP. but i suspect anyone with SSH access can SFTP in in your configuration
<nai> 123
<jussi> breaking the law, breaking the law.... you dont know what its like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<jussi> oh come on... you arent ALL  asleep ?
<MartijnVdS> ð´
<jussi> hi MartijnVdS :)
<BigRedS_> jussi: Have you been on the E-numbers?
<jussi> BigRedS_: maybe...
<jussi> :D
<diddledan> which law?
<jussi> BigRedS_: I dunno what is in this Ramen... its only got chinese writing...
<diddledan> lol
<jussi> diddledan: THE law
<MartijnVdS> of the land?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: I dunno. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L397TWLwrUU
<MartijnVdS> jussi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsS0cvTxU-8 ?
<jussi> :D
<BigRedS_> Well, I'm still hearing Limp Bizkit for the "you don't know what it's like" bit... :/
<BigRedS_> And I think that' the wrong lyric for the song anyway
<jussi> hehe
<popey> hey, any github experts.. ?
<popey> https://github.com/asyncjs/asyncjs.github.com/wiki/Adding-an-event
<popey> that first git clone line fails for me...
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7225855/
<diddledan> popey: use https://github.com/asyncjs/asyncjs.github.com.git instead of the git@github bit
<diddledan> git clone https://github.com/asyncjs/asyncjs.github.com.git
<diddledan> that
<popey> huh, ok
<diddledan> oh maybe I'm wrong, but that will work - USERNAME needs to be changed in the line they give
<diddledan> aah you want to edit?
<diddledan> if you want to edit your own copy then you'll need to give github an ssh key that you'll use
<popey> i want to edit
<popey> and they have my ssh key
<diddledan> have you clicked the "fork" button on the repo you want to fork?
<diddledan> I don't see the asyncjs.github.com repo in your personal list
<diddledan> go here: https://github.com/asyncjs/asyncjs.github.com and click the "fork" button top-right
<diddledan> that'll create a copy that you can then clone and edit
<popey> ta
<diddledan> once github has forked it you should be able to use the line you previously failed on
<popey> thanks
<diddledan> no probs :-)
<diddledan> grr @ heartbleed
<diddledan> I've spent all morning so far and only managed to update 6 machines
<diddledan> only another 28 to go
<diddledan> >.<
<MooDoo> ouch
<MooDoo> it's a pain a big pain
<MooDoo> luckily unless you have ssl's it's an easy fix.
<jussi> diddledan: my comiserations. Im glad I do not have your job :D
<diddledan> 4 more are compiling away now
<diddledan> effing gentoo
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: and then there's the certificate replacement
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: well, KEY replacement
<jussi> diddledan: own fault.. (if you were the one who chose gentoo)
<MooDoo> gentoo ouch
<diddledan> nope, gentoo was decided upon before I got here
<popey> \o/ pull request created
<popey> https://github.com/asyncjs/asyncjs.github.com/pull/42
<popey> 42 is the best pull request number
<jussi> naice....
<jussi> :S
<jussi> :DS
<jussi> far out
<jussi> how hard can it be to write: :D
<mapps> hm hm hm now what to do about zentyal
<shauno> nuke it from orbit
<MooDoo> it's the only way to be sure
<mapps> i tried
<mapps> :<
<mapps> cant get rid of it totally
<mapps> really becoming a pain
<shauno> how did you install it ?
<mapps> i cant remember tbh i thought i ust added their repo and used apt-get zentyal
<mapps> but ive remoed it that way and it fails..and theres stll something running..clogging up port 8080
<SirMarky> Hello - anyone here who can answer a quick Nvidia question for me and overclocking with 13.10?
<mapps> ask away
<SirMarky> I've installed the latest driver and set the nvidia tool to overclocking mode, but I'm uncertain which values will be stable.  I need a tool to show me output on graphics as I migrate up the stages.  With the ASUS Windows software I just move up the slider until it stops responding.  That doesn't seem to work as well here
<SirMarky> I want to push the card to the highest for x-plane.
<mapps> oh, no idea sorry hopefuly someone else does
 * mapps is a n00b
<mapps> :D
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: what timezone you in ;)
<bashrc> morning bigcalm
<popey> moin
<brobostigon> nos da
<brobostigon> noswaith dda, :)
<davmor2> brobostigon: you're not allowed to go the internet says so, so less of you good night :P
<brobostigon> i misremebered my welsh, not bed time yet.
<davmor2> popey: my adb permissions fix works but so far I've had no joy moving file via mtp/file path
<popey> fun
<davmor2> popey: bash insists that the path doesn't exist which doesn't help
<dogmatic69_> everyone seen this... http://heartbleed.com/
<ali1234> yes, about a million billion times :/
<dogmatic69_> hehe
<dogmatic69_> look at it again
<diddledan> nothing new
<daftykins> dogmatic69_: yeah what are you getting at?
<dogmatic69_> daftykins: ?
<daftykins> 'look at it again' ?
<daftykins> what were you pointing out
<dogmatic69_> nothing specific
<daftykins> *facepalm*
<dogmatic69_> just like billion times was not enough :P
<shauno> that's pretty evil
<diddledan> the inevitable heartbleed-related password reset requests are starting to arrive
<shauno> you know this is all your fault, right?
<shauno> if you hadn't gone upgrading those 4yo boxes, you wouldn't have been exposed :)
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> (file this one under "things not to mention when you're begging them to drop gentoo")
<shauno> lxde doesn't fit on this touchscreen very well :/
<diddledan> I'll leave this here and go to bed
<diddledan> https://www.facebook.com/officialstargatesg1/app_412503695533391
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> for the WHOLE series!?
<diddledan> they're up to ep15
<daftykins> ever hear of the series Twin Peaks?
<diddledan> I only know the name
<daftykins> ah well, amusingly fans are continuing it on twitter XD
<daftykins> www.avclub.com/article/laura-palmer-dead-twin-peaks-alive-again-twitter-202978
<daftykins> quite an amusing idea
<shauno> I still haven't watched any of the "star trek continues" stuff
<daftykins> really? so anything beyond the film?
<shauno> http://www.startrekcontinues.com
<daftykins> oh my bad i read stargate instead of star trek Â¬_Â¬
<shauno> oh, stargate I've only seen the film
<daftykins> !
<shauno> well, the odd episode when I'm suffering from 200 channels of tripe, but they never grabbed me
<daftykins> it's one of the classic style of series where there's lots of filler and only some over-arcing plot
<daftykins> watching with a guide that spells those out might be easier
<ali1234> sg1 is like x-files, in that the filler episodes are the best ones
<daftykins> not so sure about that, heh
<ali1234> and also they both started to suck after like 6 seasons
<daftykins> yeah X Files went funny when Mulder left
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-10
<mapps> morning
<mapps> sweet
<mapps> judge judy on:D
<diplo> Morning all
<diplo> mapps: Really.... judge judy! :/
<MooDoo> diplo: phew, glad you said that
<diplo> :P
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Safety Pin Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<bashrc_> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc_
<foobarry> spam txt from giffgaff :@
<brobostigon> oh dear.
 * davmor2 prods JamesTait with a safety pin to see if he pops like a balloon?  No but he does scream like a girl
<JamesTait> How rude!
<MooDoo> Everyones servers patched?
<brobostigon> yes.
<awilkins> I get spamtxt from Domino's Pizza
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm still trying to run the test on mine it doesn't like starttls it appears :(
<MooDoo> davmor2: :(
<bashrc> I patched my server yesterday
<foobarry> i run scientigic linux- self patching
<bashrc> you also have to regenerate any SSL certificates
<MooDoo> foobarry: is that any good?  I've been looking at it
<foobarry> WFM
<foobarry> i've run large desktop infrastructures too using it
<foobarry> and servers of course
<foobarry> i also like centos
<foobarry> but i dont think centos is configged for security updates via cron OOTB
<foobarry> i want to get the blue shell ! http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B8QDNW2/ref=s9_simh_gw_p63_d0_i3?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1J9THJXHCE26R14R2XM6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455344027&pf_rd_i=468294
<foobarry> oh, not at that price
<MooDoo> bloomin heart bleed
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> Do we really think we need to change passwords?
<awilkins> I have about 80 in my password manager
<popey> i changed a few
<popey> based on advice from the lastpass security audit tool
<awilkins> Yeah, I might change my gmail at least
<popey> which is fricking amazing
<popey> i have 2fa on gmail
<awilkins> Yeah, I suppose I should sort that out
<MooDoo> https://www.dropbox.com/s/n96uuv10ehjspng/BLOG-HEARTBEAT.jpg :D
<popey> hah
<popey> i used to love that show
<popey> uh, 20 years ago
<MooDoo> yeah just throught it was funny as i'm dealing with a lot of heartbleed issues :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: everyone is :|
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: lawls
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: you have *no idea* how many heart bleed issues I'm dealing with
<SuperMatt> let's just say that we're only a little snowed under, and you have to imagine that with immense levels of sarcasm
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: now imagine dealing with (local council) government
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: ouch
<SuperMatt> the one thing I keep hearing though is "no, don't restart httpd now" and I'm just like "lol you mean that your security is less important than 10 seconds downtime? OK!"
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: good thing we had DigiNotar here a few years ago, and there are procedures/protocols now
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: yup we're soo busy
<SuperMatt> just take the number of servers you're dealing with, then scale it up *many* times and you'll realise how busy we are!
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: pah i've more servers that you :p
<popey> I had zero to patch \o/
<popey> hurrah for no ssl
<MartijnVdS> popey: ...
<MartijnVdS> I even had to patch my Synology NAS
<popey> i have nothing that does https, nothing at all
<foobarry> i'm on holiday this week
<popey> \o/
<foobarry> not sure if \o/ or /o\
<popey> nice timing
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oh rats forgot about my NAS
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://ukdl.synology.com/download/criticalupdate/update_pack/4458-2/ if it's a synology
<MooDoo> no netgear, but it's old, so I'm not sure if it's even affected lol
<foobarry> most of my servers self updated but applications might need a closer look
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I rebooted my servers to be on the safe side
<foobarry> its amazing how quickly 4yr olds can get good as games like mario kart
<foobarry> :-|
<foobarry> although he's clicked on internet play sometimes. explains a lot. sometimes i've played on the internet and thought..is this guy drunk or just 4yrs old
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you could too.. if you only played it as intensely and often as they do
<foobarry> heh.. he plays prob 1hr a week on sat mornings
<foobarry> and talks about it for 7 days in between
<MooDoo> foobarry: my son is 5 and the same with minecraft, i've just let him use fraps so he can record his own videos lol
 * popey coughs up http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2014/04/10/s07e02-the-one-where-everybody-finds-out/
<brobostigon> :)
 * Laney just heard the f-bomb
<Laney> OUTRAGEOUS
<MooDoo> the what?
<brobostigon> is it a gasous anal axpulsion.?
<brobostigon> expulsion*
<Laney> similar
<popey> yeah â¨
<brobostigon> i see.
 * brobostigon gets a match
<andrewebdev> was listening to a linux podcast last night regarding mir, and just as it got to the point where I was too frustrated to continue listening, reason popped it's in the door in the form of popey
<popey> haha
<popey> Linux Unplugged?
<andrewebdev> yeah
<popey> thanks
<daftykins> hrmm, probably not wise for a web server to be going 20MB into swap?
<mapps> sweet
<mapps> hey daftykins
<mapps> prob not
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> hallo
<mapps> :)
<diddledan> lots of interesting announcements: https://cloud.google.com/events/google-cloud-platform-live/
<mapps> hm
<mapps> cloud sucks daftykins
<daftykins> tab complete fail!
<SuperMatt> cloud doesn't suck, it's just most people suck at using it!
<SuperMatt> for instance, if you want to use wordpress on a bunch of load balanced servers, you're going to have a bad time
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> it's morning already? but I don't want to go back to work yet
<SuperMatt> there are still too many heartbleed tickets!
<daftykins> lol
<shauno> ugh.  I had to deal with that today, which was unexpected
<shauno> mostly trying to find a reassuring way to say "don't worry, we're so hopelessly out of date that we weren't exposed"
<SuperMatt> I'm still unsure about resetting passwords and renewing certs
<SuperMatt> I figure that if attacks against heartbleed were going to affect me, I would have been got by now
<shauno> honestly, I think for most people it's largely hypothetical
<shauno> the more realistic worry (imho) is that people like yahoo were exposed.  targets big enough for someone to go fishing if they had some shiney new sploit before it was public
<SuperMatt> indeed
<shauno> I mean, it's nice that there's a dance to go through if you want the peace of mind.  but I'd be more worried about my accounts on others' systems, than my own
<shauno> one thing that did raise an eyebrow though, is people scanning 443 on their own ranges to see what needs to be updated
<diddledan> shauno: "we're aware of the issue and at this point we believe our systems are no-longer vulnerable"
<diddledan> where no-longer == hadn't been in the first place
<shauno> rather than just "update all the things", they're assuming https is the only place they're using ssl
<diddledan> at least ssh isn't an issue :-)
<diddledan> but smtps and pop3s and imaps are probably vulnerable
<diddledan> I donno what microsoft-world uses for ssl?
<diddledan> some in-house thing I guess
<diddledan> microsoft closed sauce
<SuperMatt> the command I've used most today: lsof -n | grep ssl | DEL
<SuperMatt> to see if any services had a preloaded version of openssl still in memory
<diddledan> | DEL?
<daftykins> what's the third portion?
<SuperMatt> oops, grep DEL
<shauno> I wouldn't be surprised to find openssl on windows.  it's bsd licensed, so it'll crop up everywhere
<diddledan> I used sudo grep libcrypto /proc/*/maps | grep '(deleted)' | cut -d/ -f3 | uniq | xargs ps
<diddledan> that way it tells me what processes I need to restart
<SuperMatt> mine's a little quicker :P
<SuperMatt> but it does the same
<shauno> I think mine's been "paste" :(  so much email.  so so much.
<daftykins> lol
<shauno> (my first day back since the start of the month, so ..)
<daftykins> shauno: you part timer!
<shauno> I try :D
<shauno> I even booked "bring your child to work day" off as vacation
<bigcalm> Potato batteries!
<diddledan> shauno: but you don't have a child
<bigcalm> Perfect reason not to be in work that day
<bigcalm> Children do not make for a productive work environment
<shauno> it's for their benefit, really.  they don't need a humbug :)
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> bag of humbugs!
<daftykins> that'd pacify them
<diddledan> shauno: but the lolz
<diddledan> shauno: of being humbuggery
<diddledan> I know being a grouch can take a lot of effort, but it's surely worth it when you ruin everyone's day, no?
<diddledan> http://blog.fastmail.fm/2014/04/10/when-two-factor-authentication-is-not-enough/
<denny> Heyla. I seem to have lost the ability to listen to 'net radio stations. I'm inclined to blame my new ISP, but just before I call them up and shout at them, what else should I check?  Rhythmbox on 12.04, happy to install something else to see if that works, less happy to upgrade distro version right this second.  Tried running Rhythmbox from command-line, didn't get any useful errors (just the usual Gtk mess).
<daftykins> denny: what are you testing?
<denny> actually, it just occurred to me to try from the laptop.  That works.  So um... Rhythmbox on my 12.04 desktop doesn't work (but did a week ago when I last used it), Rhythmbox on my 13.10 laptop on the same network does work.  You tell me what I should test.  :)
<denny> Trying to play http://radio.bassjunkees.com:8442/listen.pls (as an example, although no 'net radio station works.  Local files do still play.)
<diddledan> reactos is still going? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/reactos-community-edition
<daftykins> denny: try running rhythmbox from a terminal to see if it's erroring
<diddledan> daftykins: he already did that
<diddledan> last sentence :-p
<daftykins> oh yeah
<daftykins> sorry i went out and came back
<daftykins> XD
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> damn you all for not being ircrack-addicts like me!
<daftykins> i went to buy snacks so i could be, damn it man!
<diddledan> mm, tasty treats!
<denny> yeah, it just throws those errors Gtk applications always throw  :-p
 * daftykins extracts a tube from a 100% extra free jaffa cakes box
<diddledan> gtk really is verbose
<denny> I swear Gtk is made out of matchsticks
<denny> not glued together, just balanced end on end
<diddledan> I don't get why they moan when every app moans in the same way
<diddledan> daftykins: 100% extra free!?!!
<diddledan> now that's bargain!
<daftykins> >:D
<Alue> hi,I am Alue. I have some Ubuntu 12.04 boot error. Please help.
<daftykins> it's quite late here. you'd be better off with asking in #ubuntu
<Alue> ???
<daftykins> ask in #ubuntu
<Alue> well thanks.
<diddledan> denny: I've just tried that radio station on a 12.04.4 freshly installed - it worked fine for me
<diddledan> that's 64bittyness
<diddledan> I can try on a 32bit install if you like
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-11
<daftykins> diddledan: you know you wanna
<diddledan> I wanna zigga zig aah
<denny> diddledan: huh.  No, 64-bit here too.  Well, thanks for that bewildering feedback.  :)
<denny> I could try purging it and reinstalling it I guess
<diddledan> denny: you could also try adding a new user account to your system and seeing if a clean profile works or not
<diddledan> lol @ https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=askew
<daftykins> denny: maybe just reset rhythmbox?
<mapps> sheesh
<mapps> my sky adsl is down AGAIN
<mapps> having to tether to my phone;/
<diddledan> mapps: looks like you went down at about 01:10
<mapps> sky is rubbish
<mapps> basically imo the issue is contention?
<mapps> EVERYONE is on sky..walk around and scan for wireless and its all SKYZYX
<mapps> BECAUSE its so damn cheap
<daftykins> yeah very little room for quality of service i'd imagine
<mapps> yep
<mapps> honestly everywhere its like SKY SKY SKY..and i get it because people just get phone/tv/net for like 2quid
<mapps> so its rubbish
<denny> I just got sold from Be to Sky  :(  :(  :(
<denny> so far; slower, less stable, and no reverse DNS
<diddledan> diddledan has userhost ~Daniel@5751aa0a.skybroadband.com <-- this
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> I've not had any issue
<denny> as in, I can't specify my reverse DNS
<denny> on be it was home.denny.me
<denny> (denny.me being my domain, not just some random gibberish I made up)  :)
<mapps> heh
<diddledan> yes, I know what you mean. the be people are apparently encouraging sky to open up features like that
<mapps> hey denny same well i was with o2..which was powered by be
<mapps> sucks hey
 * denny nods
<mapps> im not a spurs supporter after monday i think;p
<mapps> wont be moving there anytime soon but will go to a few games when possible:)
<diddledan> why mudnay?
<mapps> went to spurs v sunderland ..0-1 down spurs come back and win 5-1!! and id had Â£250 at 1.63 for them to win and 30 quid at any unqouted score at 7/1 on bf:D
<diddledan> lol
<mapps> paid for the whole thing
<mapps> really enjoyed it and tottenham wasnt as bad as i thought itd be
<mapp> so its back
<mapp> glad i could tether dunno what id do if my net went down all day:D
<diddledan> http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-compute-module-new-product/
<daftykins> how many will be plugged into laptops and fried? :>
<diddledan> at least 50%
<daftykins> g'night guys :>
<diddledan> nn
<mapp> early for you daftykins
<mapp> nn
<diddledan> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/04/wild-heart-were-intelligence-agencies-using-heartbleed-november-2013
<mapp> wonder if i should geta rasperry pi
<neuro> 01:38 <mapps> sky is rubbish
<neuro> speak for yourself :)
<mapp> hey
<mapp> sup
<mapp> a week away from the casinos and
<mapp> 'oh hey mark you alright hows it going where you been'
<mapp> heh
<MooDoo> hello all
<mapp> hey MooDoo
<bashrc_> morning
<MartijnVdS> hello
<bashrc_> so when is the 14.04 launch day?
<mapps> morning bashrc
<ali1234> 17th
<MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
<MooDoo> final freeze was yesterday
<bashrc> ok.  I'll probably upgrade both home and work laptops when it's released
<MartijnVdS> according to launchpad, the "double screensaver" bug has FINALLY been fixed
<bashrc> I hope the Z580 boot bug has been fixed.  That has been an annoyance.
<MartijnVdS> Z580? Is that a "newer" Z80 (like the 80386 was a "better" 8086 ;)
<bashrc> no, Lenovo Z580 laptop.  Sometimes it doesn't boot.  Something related to the power management system.
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<SuperMatt> morning heartbleeders
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: storm in a teacup ;)
<SuperMatt> bloody multi-universe apocalypse in a teacup
<MooDoo> lol
<bashrc> it was a pretty bug bug though
<bashrc> *big
<SuperMatt> a pretty big bug which only required a one line fix >.<
<SuperMatt> but at least there will be people *pouring* over the openssl code to make sure this doesn't happen again
<bashrc> millions of certificates revoked.  Lots of embedded systems out there may not be upgradable
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: the coder submitted the code for the issue 1 hour before midnight on new years eve, even then reviewer missed it
<SuperMatt> >.<
<bashrc> I've probably made thousands of coding mistakes, and even in a good team things can still get past review
<bashrc> so I don't think heartbleed was necessarily a conspiracy unless more information comes to light
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<arsen> is there a way i can avoid MITM attacks on my ssh sessions?
<arsen> and SSL traffic.
<SuperMatt> in reality, no.
<SuperMatt> if the server you have been connected to has in any way been compromised and had their keys taken, you can't prevent MITM
<directhex> physical proximity to the target server! you'll see all men in the middle!
<arsen> :)
<arsen> ive learnt i may be about to be monitored by a palo alto device, and i understand it does SSL/SSH decryption - presumably via MITM, and i have a problem with my privacy being invaded :o
<SuperMatt> without the keys from the other side, I don't know how they would decrypt
<SuperMatt> they may do deep packet inspection to try to guess what's going on though
<arsen> https://www.paloaltonetworks.com/products/features/decryption.html
<diddledan> arsen: what makes you think someone will be monitoring you with such a device?
<diddledan> arsen: those devices are for corporates who have the ability to use GPOs to make your computer trust the certificate the device uses
<arsen> diddledan  - overheard / noticed it being installed for testing a while back :)
<diddledan> arsen: for a computer that isn't part of an Active Directory corporate domain there is nothing they can do without you being warned
<arsen> interesting. i think during testing i was made aware that someone saw me chatting in #ubuntu-uk , for example
<arsen> not that i'm doing anything wrong, but if they can do SSL decrypt, i'll suddenly be more concerned about banking / private sites / emails etc.
<diddledan> they can't without your consent. consent is implicit when you're using a business pc
<arsen> and i sit on a self built nix box, not part of the AD domain, though that's unique to a few people.
<arsen> yeah i suspect that'd be their arguement
<diddledan> if you don't have someone installing certificates behind your back and your pc isn't using GPOs then they have no way of decrypting your traffic
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Barbershop Quartet Day! :-D
<diddledan> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> diddledan, o/
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<jussi> the hearbleed explanation on xkcd is nice :D
<bigcalm> Yup
<bigcalm> Also explains how to exploit it
<bigcalm> Or at least gives me an idea how one does
<bigcalm> Anybody recognise names on this list? https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/lamp-and-beyond-ii-tickets-11069221339
<MooDoo> not me
<jussi> nor I.
<philwyett> I know Mr Spriggs by the emails he sends me. He is part of UK LUGs http://lugs.org.uk :-)
<jussi> anybody want to play "Caption this"?  http://is.gd/Wqng8J
<philwyett> Sorry lug.org.uk
<popey> philwyett: wassup?
<philwyett> jussi: Come on lads. Torres's scoring ability must be here somewhere!
<bigcalm> Yeah, I've heard of Jon Spriggs. Not sure I've met him though
<MartijnVdS> jussi: "Are you sure that's East?"
<philwyett> popey: Just someone asking if we recognised anyone from a list of attendees for a LAMP event.
<philwyett> Morning popey by the way.
<jussi> MartijnVdS: and philwyett - both are very good :D
<andrewebdev> What's the app called again that basically works as a chrome wrapper around a webapp in ubuntu?
<andrewebdev> There are a number of web-apps I'd like to open in their own windows
<andrewebdev> ah found it, need to prefix unity-webapps
<jussi> so who likes fast booting linux? :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXYpq_7nicM - just a little something the lads at work have been doing.
<selinuxium> Morning all o/
<jussi> morning selinuxium
<jussi> (afternoon here and only just still morning there) :P
<selinuxium> yup. :) Where are you jussi ?
<jussi> selinuxium: Finland
<selinuxium> Neat :)
<jussi> don't ask why I hang out in the UK channel... :P
<selinuxium> Wasn't going to... :)
<MooDoo> you're just a sucker for punishement and you know i'll be around at atupid o'clock in the morning for you to bug ;)
<diddledan> jussi: more to the point would be "why would you NOT want to hang out in the UK channel?!"
<diddledan> I mean, the UK channel is where all the cool kids hang out
<MooDoo> diddledan: I'm old, therefore not cool well that's what my kids say
<MooDoo> lo
<selinuxium> Yay! I am a cool kid again!
<jussi> :D
<jussi> ah dear. I just almost cracked up laughing on a business call... I shouldnt click unknown links while on calls... http://is.gd/EyVa7c
<bigcalm> http://catcatcatcatcatcatcatcatcatcats.tumblr.com/post/70714086421
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: bonsai kitten?
<directhex> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNhycX0XCJ0
<jussi> directhex: epic!
<popey> omg, is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAjM1pRIFP4 where "Hello, yes this is dog" comes from?
<nigelb> nah, that's from http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/yes-this-is-dog
<shauno> ugh, we have a manager at work who always interupts with "this is robert" on conf calls.  every single time, "this is dog" appears in my head
<diddledan> this is dan, shauno , he's from corporate stock
<shauno> oh it's worse than that.  he's german
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYu_bGbZiiQ
<diddledan> did everyone just up-and-die on me?
<shauno> yes
<MooDoo> yes
<MartijnVdS> yup
<diddledan> damn
<MartijnVdS> ðµ
<jussi> c..ca...call 112... :P
<diddledan> 112 is 999 in britain :-p
<diddledan> although 112 should still work but nobody in britain knows it exists apart from me :-)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 112 works in all of Europe, and mobile phone networks map it ;)
<diddledan> damned "tories" want to hold a referendum over whether britain should leave europe
<diddledan> they think by promising that they'll get elected next time around
<diddledan> they're trying to get the xenophobic/racist vote
<diddledan> it surprises me there isn't an effort underway to move britain to just-off the coast of New York by means of a large engine
<jussi> its sad that winning is so important that you need to cater to the racist/xenophobic vote
<dwatkins> I don't understand how they can give these viewpoints so much of their time, no-one I know thinks this way.
<dwatkins> Mind you, I live in Scotland, and we might well become part of Scandinavia sometime soon.
 * dwatkins wonders idly what the ISO 3166 2-letter code for Scotland will be
<SuperMatt> a journo friend of mine did some polls about leaving europe. The answers were either "yes!" in that pigheaded "Britain for the British" kind of way, or "I really don't have enough information"
<SuperMatt> and even then, the vast majority fell in to the latter camp
<SuperMatt> so having a referrendum is pointless
<dwatkins> yeah, because the former camp might win because the rest of us might not vote
<SuperMatt> I also feel that scotland should be part of the UK. I think we're all better off if we can work together
<dwatkins> I'm concerned the scottish referrendum might turn out like this.
<SuperMatt> it's the building of artificial barriers which prevents progress
<dwatkins> indeed, SuperMatt - my main question about Scottish independance is "Why?"
<SuperMatt> I just don't know
<dwatkins> I suspect it will result in a country with little income.
<SuperMatt> I imagine if you go to glasgow or edinburgh, most won't want to leave, my money's on most of the "yes" voters coming from the rural towns and villages who don't quite understand how economies work and just want their own piece of land to be exactly how they want it
<dwatkins> indeed
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: they can sell moss.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: highland moss.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: and some peat.
<MartijnVdS> and a few bottles of drink
<SuperMatt> I wonder how scotland will cope when it comes to paying its welfare bill
<dwatkins> we have it pretty good right now with free prescriptions, free eye tests and no student fees.
<dwatkins> I'd be very surprised if that could continue after independence.
<SuperMatt> sure sure, but how is that being paid for?
<dwatkins> I imagine it's a case of apportioning our taxes differently.
<shauno> for iso3166-2, since EC & SC are already taken, I'd propose 'JK'.  it's unused, and dot-jock would rock
<dwatkins> nice
<shauno> I'm kinda tied on the independence thing.  I think we should go more-EU and make borders less and less relevant.
<dwatkins> the trouble is that sentiment seems to be less prevelent south of the "border"
<dwatkins> I gather there's a clear difference in the way Scotland votes compared to England, too.
<shauno> well there's your irony, I'm english :)
<dwatkins> me too, I just happen to live in Edinburgh
<dwatkins> I grew up in Berkshire.
<shauno> I'm from oxord, but I grew up near glasgow
<shauno> er, *oxford
<SuperMatt> I think we should all just be a massive part of europe
<SuperMatt> but there we go
<dwatkins> well quite, SuperMatt
<shauno> we are a massive part of europe.  we're just in denial about it
<dwatkins> although I'm not sure "The United States of Europe" would be a popular idea ;)
<SuperMatt> we just call outselves europe!
<SuperMatt> Or, tbh, Outer London
<SuperMatt> because London is all that matters
<SuperMatt> or maybe "London wastes"
<SuperMatt> yes, that's what we shall call Europe
<dwatkins> not-London
<shauno> I found myself recently wondering if the EU is closer to the US's initial design than the US is
<dwatkins> that wouldn't surprise me
<shauno> as far as state law vs federal law goes, at least.  the fed was only supposed to be involved with interstate commerce, foreign policy, etc.  and eventually dug its fingers into everything else
<dwatkins> ...and then the rest of the world
<shauno> so we're moving towards the design they're moving away from
<dwatkins> well, Europe is...
<shauno> I'll stick with 'we' because I don't live in the UK anymore :)
<dwatkins> fair enough
<dwatkins> I've always considered myself a citizen of Europe, as the school I went to was a european one.
<shauno> and it saves me the embarrassment of admitting the UK's foreign policy is driven by the Daily Mail
<dwatkins> it appears they aren't aware of the .ac.uk domains, though: http://www.esculham.co.uk/
<SuperMatt> too many of the UK's policies are daily mail driven
 * dwatkins shudders
<dwatkins> I don't understand why that paper sells so well
 * brobostigon reads private eye.
<directhex> fear sells
<popey> http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA26
<popey> https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/454601744711168000
<shauno> that doesn't seem so wise.  could be interesting though
<dwatkins> "Poitras responded to a question of if she would hazard an entry into the United States and she responded that she planned to attend an April 11th event regardless of the legal or professional threats posed by the United States authorities."
<dwatkins> My cheap USB fan with LEDs on it that is a clock is now just a fan #FirstWorldProblems
<bashrc> I consider myself a citizen of planet Earth
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<dwatkins> well said, bashrc
<bashrc> I just consider countries to be zones of administerial convenience
<popey> Hippy.
<popey> â»
<bashrc> heh, I don't even have long hair
<directhex> i'm more of a visitor to planet earth than a citizen
<directhex> with a residency visa
<dwatkins> I feel like an alien sitting in the corner solving problems he sees as they float past
<dwatkins> either that, or I'm actually from another century, but I had my memory wiped.
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: wait, you're https://www.youtube.com/user/ZoggFromBetelgeuse ?!
<dogmatic69> nope
<MartijnVdS> uhrr I meant to say directhex:
<dogmatic69> ah
<foobarry> i do these very lowly paid surveys for ipsos etc.. lots of them seem to be about home broadband and/or beer
<foobarry> interesting to see what market research they are doing though
<jussi> foobarry: I do similar ones here. for the same reason.
<foobarry> get paid pittance
<foobarry> like Â£1 for 20  minutes
<jussi> these ones dont even pay. you get put into a draw for a gift card...
<popey> bug #1283979
<lubotu3> bug 1283979 in unity (Ubuntu) "moving windows causes the top bar and the launcher bar to flicker" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283979
<foobarry> jussi: one of the surveys just now says "did you share any unauthorised films online in the last 12 moinths?"
<bigcalm> How do you know if a film is unauthorised?
<foobarry> i.e did you share any copyrighted films onlien
<dwatkins> I imagine it's pretty easy to tell
<foobarry> i didn't , but if i did, would i say yes?
<bigcalm> Ignore me, I was being pedantic
<dwatkins> perhaps it's like the riddle of the two people, one of whom lies, the other tells the truth
<dwatkins> next question "have you ever lied on a survey?"
<foobarry> i got screened out of the survey after saying no
<foobarry> its a trap!
<bigcalm> Are t-mobile and orange offering 4g now? Or does one have to move their contract to ee?
<foobarry> even three are doing it
<foobarry> as i realised because my wireless mics stopped working
<awilkins> Och, shite
<awilkins> Oops
<awilkins> Sorry, channel unfriendly
<mapp> hey bigcalm i think you gotta go to ee
<bigcalm> Ho hum
<bigcalm> I'd lose my discount then
<mapp> whenever ive looked at 4g its too expensive anyway
<mapp> i have unlimited 3g atm and thats the best i can get
<mapp> i pai 50quid/month though..couldnt see any way to get it for any less
<mapp> and it includes tethering
<bigcalm> 3g is actually fine for my needs. Just that 8th May sees the end of my current contract and time for a new handset
<bigcalm> So getting one that can do 4g is nice, but I guess not going to get used
<awilkins> bigcalm, I've separated my handset and contract cycles
<bigcalm> We've recently had this discussion in here :P
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> Â£10 pcm for 1GB inc. tethering suits me just fine
<awilkins> Hardly ever tether anyway
<bigcalm> Oppo any good?
<awilkins> Oppo?
<bigcalm> Yeah, that's what I thought
<bigcalm> https://en.oppo.com/
<awilkins> Nice idea I suppose
<awilkins> Happy enough with my N4, but if you want the extra customizability they seem to have the right attitude
<awilkins> Who knows about the hardware though..
<bigcalm> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mY7Px6n4o
<mapp> awilkins sure but i do like 3-4gig a month 3g at times
<mapp> and tether on the train etc
<awilkins> mapp, Heh, don't travel on trains anymore, and when I did it was usually over the pennines... tethering almost pointless  :-)
<awilkins> Ouch $600 for the fancy end Oppo
<mapp> ah
<bigcalm> Looks like I'll "make do" with the Samsung Galaxy S5
<mapp> how much that gonna cost u
<mapp> for the phone and per month
<bigcalm> Hopefully 50 quid up front and no more than 30 quid a month for 2 years (which is what I'm currently on)
<bigcalm> That's if I can get the SGS5 on my Friends & Family discount
<bigcalm> T-Mobile originally said that I couldn't have the SGS3 on my discount contract. But when I tried to cancel my contract to go elsewhere, they said I could have it
<mapp> that seems ok
<mapp> but
<mapp> that seems cheap
<mapp> hard to judge as all i want is unlimited 3g though and that costs money dnt care about mins ir texts
<bigcalm> The S5 has the style of the S2
<mapp> not upgrading till the i6 is out
<mapp> :D
<mapp> il be putting a pre order in once the dates released
<mapp> cant wait
<bigcalm> Looking at these new phones makes my SGS3 feel small
<mapp> KIK
<mapp> LOL EVEN
<mapp> well
<mapp> my friend had that big samsung thats like a phablet
<mapp> he got sick of it and sold it
<mapp> like a big screen is nice except it dont fit in your pocket so its awkward
<bigcalm> The Note?
<mapp> na a phone tablet note is ust a tablet aint it?
<mapp> i mean for using the net or watching videos its sweet but it wouldnt fit in my pocket
<bigcalm> The S5 is only slightly larger in both dimensions than the S3 that I have. So it'll still fit in my pocket
<mapp> the i6 is coming in 2 varieties apparently
<bigcalm> Does one of them have a usable OS?
<bigcalm> Na, that'll never happen
<mapp> pffff
<mapp> :P
<bigcalm> </troll>
<mapp> have u used an iphone
<mapp> i love them
<bigcalm> I've used an iPad. Hated it
<mapp> i think even popey has an iphone?
<popey> i do
<mapp> yea see
<popey> and android, firefox, ubuntu..
<bigcalm> popey is an Apple fan boy
<popey> shut it
<mapp> lol
<bigcalm> :D
<popey> i have 5 phones on my desk, not rnough
<mapp> ive got an android tablet nexus7/ipad air 128gig/firefox zte open/firefox other phone and i5
<mapp> so not an apple fanboy..i just like ios:)
<mapp> i dont think androids half as good tbh
<mapp> firefox os phones arent a fraction of the cost of ios/android so dont have to be as good
<mapp> s5s how much off contract?
<popey> the new $25 ffos phone has 128MB RAM
<mapp> ZTE open?
<popey> no
<popey> the new one
<mapp> oh
<popey> made by foxconn i think
<mapp> i mean ive got a zte open..and its obviously not anywhere near an iphone 5
<mapp> but its also 1/10 of the price
<popey> indeed, i have one too, it was given to me
<mapp> people dont seem to get that
<popey> its a terrible phone.
<mapp> but its 1/10 of the price of an iphone or s5
<popey> so what?
<popey> that doesn't stop it being terrible
<mapp> well, then you cant expect miracles :)
<popey> I didnt expect miracles
<popey> You're suggesting things I never said.
<mapp> no i didnt mean that just saying i didnt expect much
<mapp> i mean imo it does twitter and the net and its cheap its what i expected
<popey> you cant even scroll properly
<popey> it flies past the target
<mapp> yea thats annoying
<mapp> i wonder if the other firefox phones are any better
<mapp> also wonder if any if the updates make it better
<popey> the geeks phone feels nice
<popey> a bit like a sony device
<bigcalm> Up in Manchester tomorrow. Where's nice to have dinner on one's own?
<mapp> nandos!
<mapp> i went there in the ardale
<bigcalm> Â¬.Â¬
<mapp> its nice lol
<bigcalm> I like Nandos, but I can get that here
<popey> curry mile dude!
<mapp> hard rock cafe
<bigcalm> Hayley be home!
 * bigcalm scurries off to be happy
<mapp> hayley?
<awilkins> Lots of nice place in Manchester
<mapp> yea
<mapp> gah
<mapp> in a queue
<mapp> on phone to passport office;/
<Azelphur> so, I met some guy locally who wants to set up a bitcoin meetup yesterday, he casually mentions he has something from Butterfly Labs and that he broke the PSU, I offered to go take a look. Turns out he had a BFL SC Single, sitting in a box, since November...*cry*
<Azelphur> for those not in the know...$3000 worth of hardware, $20,000+ in missed profits
<mapp> woah
<mapp> you in the US?
<Azelphur> mapp: nope, UK
<mapp> oh just u said in dollars
<mapp> going to United game on 3rd may
<mapp> then flying to Slovakia ..coming ack 6th may for another united game:P
<mapp> then flying to Budapset:D
<bigcalm> mapp: Hayley is my wife
<bigcalm> That sounds weird to say, but it's true
<mapp> ah
<mapp> i cant imagine being married or living ih soeone
<mapp> i love living alone
<popey> I can believe it, I witnessed the marriage!
<popey> er, wedding
<mapp> living alone is nice
<mapp> no questions of where im going etc
<popey> heh
<popey> yeah, i can see how that could be appealing
<mapp> especially with my odd hours lol
<popey> right now I have a kid watching telly, wifey asleep on the sofa, and daughter dancing in the kitchen
<popey> i could go and and nobody would notice â»
<mapp> i went to the casino at 4am for a beer yesterday
<popey> i have never been to a casino
<mapp> i hate being questionned on what im doing..
<mapp> im a member of both (stannley/genting/grrosvenor)
<mapp> only go for a drink..i dont gamble usually
<mapp> mugs game
<mapp> i work for 365 and i know how much we make
<mapp> so there's only one winner clearly
<mrjdy123> Hi guys
<mapp> urgh
<mapp> ticket resale 24th and 27th
<mapp> wonder why they split it up?;/
<mapp> still 2 more chances to get a ticket..failed on release day;/
<MartijnVdS> .. bigv dropped of the net for a bit there
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> that's no good
<MartijnVdS> it came back in 2 minutes or so
<Alue_> hi. it's Alue.
<MartijnVdS> hi Alue_
<Alue_> please help me to partition my disk.
<Alue_> I use Ubuntu 12.04
<Alue_> please guide me step-by-step.
<MartijnVdS> Alue_: do you have another OS on the same disk?
<Alue_> no.
<Alue_> but I would like to partition it.
<MartijnVdS> Alue_: in that case, go with the installer's default for "Whole disk":
<Alue_> ???
<Alue_> please guide me
<Alue_> my laptop is on.
<Alue_> what should I do next??
<Alue_> hello is anybody there???
<directhex> Alue_, why not use the installer defaults?
<Alue_> guide me at every step.
<Alue_> What's installer default???
<directhex> everything in one partition, except for a swap partition, i think?
<Alue_> yeah.
<daftykins> Alue_: you were asking the same last night, how far did you get?
<Alue_> hey I was speaking about a boot error. I have overcome that issue. thanks. Thank you all for the support.
<Alue_> what is linux-swap???
<daftykins> it is like a virtual memory partition
<Alue_> okay.
<Alue_> it is consuming my memory.
<Alue_> is it really required???
<daftykins> depends what RAM you have
<daftykins> or whether you want to suspend/hibernate
<daftykins> a max of 4GB really isn't that much
<daftykins> but to sleep or hibernate you'd need it the same size as what RAM you have
<Alue_> help me partitio!!!
<daftykins> you need to ask a more specific question
<daftykins> how much disk space do you have free? is this free space after Windows? are you dual-booting? are you installing ubuntu on its' own?
<daftykins> why aren't you just choosing automatic and getting on with it?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-12
<daftykins> well well
<daftykins> i've been calling my 6 x 1TB RAID5 an old dog for a while now
<daftykins> sure enough one disk tonight has just rellocated two sectors
<daftykins> most disks have a power-on hours statistic at 6 years :)
<foobarry> morning internet people
<foobarry> so...next wave of phishing will be heartbleed "reset your password" ohish attempts...
<mapp> morning
<mapp> hah yea most likely foobarry :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> what do people usually use as their 2nd factor when using lastpass?
<MartijnVdS> app on phone?
<foobarry> AKA google auth.
<foobarry> yubikey is premium only
<foobarry> https://helpdesk.lastpass.com/security-options/multifactor-authentication-options/
<popey> foobarry: yeah, yubikey
<popey> and i pay because I want to support lastpass
<isleofmandan> Hello. Quick Q - has anyone flashed Ubuntu on a Galaxy Nexus? How long should the swirly green man stage take?!  >10 mins?
<foobarry> i thought u sold your yubikeys?
<popey> its not supported anymore
<popey> foobarry: i sold some, i still have my own ones
<foobarry> i got put off lastpass some years ago after a hack and everyone had to change their passwds
<isleofmandan> popey  - Thanks, I didn't realise. It seems to have finished whatever it was doing. Rebooting now...
<foobarry> nose will not stop running last few days. think its hayfever season announcing itself
<foobarry> ooo nice aston martin outside my house
<isleofmandan> popey - and it seems to have worked. Yay!
<popey> foobarry: i got put _on_ to laspass when some other site was hacked and i had to reset 100+ passwords in a day
<foobarry> neighbours look like they are having an open day to flog their house
<foobarry> hence the steady stream of flashy cars and overbuilt men. wonder why it's attracting those types
<foobarry> we're not a flashy area
<bigcalm> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<popey> bug 1306970
<lubotu3> bug 1306970 in unity (Ubuntu) "Screensaver leaks password key-presses through to applications" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306970
<popey> can anyone else confirm that on 14.04?
<Azelphur> popey: did you tag that as security vuln?
<Azelphur> just out of curiosity
<popey> not till someone confirms it
<penguin42> popey: It's interesting, I've seen the problem at the login screen - I just had that where I couldn't get focus on the password
<penguin42> popey: Which apps have you had it leak to - or is it any?
<mapps> evening
<SuperEngineer> #1 cook brussels sprouts
<SuperEngineer> #11 forget cooking brussels sprouts
<SuperEngineer> #120 goto burn brussels spouts
<SuperEngineer> #200 goto print OH Bugger!
<penguin42> probably best thing you can do with a brussel
<mapps> heh
<mapps> i like sprouts
<DJones> Sprouts are outstanding, shame they're not eaten more often
<SuperEngineer> +1 to support for sprouts
<SuperEngineer> Sprouts - the Ubuntu of the veg world ... soooo underated ;)
<SuperEngineer> [but easily burnt if negleted...
<DJones> SuperEngineer: Steam them
<SuperEngineer> ...update your sprouts as soon as poss folks!
<SuperEngineer> darn... forgot about the possibilty of submitting them Steam !
<SuperEngineer> *to Steam
<DJones> Ah well, just enjoyed some pan fried kangaroo steak, was surprised at how soft the meat was
<SuperEngineer> DJones: please don't say it tasted like bouncy chicken... heard that one b4
<DJones> I won't
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<penguin42> popey: Only key I've managed to pass through here is Alt seems to do some stuff to System Settings menu if I have it open under the lock, but I've not managed to get any letter keys through
<directhex> my god, our bedroom is approaching the land of "tidy"
<brobostigon> organised chaos, directhex ?
<directhex> brobostigon, organised un-chaos!!!
<brobostigon> oh dear,
<directhex> clutter being disposed of!
<directhex> dusting in places we've never dusted since moving in!
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> heck, what's bought this on?
<directhex> penguin42, turning the bedroom into a sex dungeon! can't get dust on the leather!
<directhex> er, i mean, being tired of living in a hellhole
<brobostigon> lol.
<penguin42> directhex: tasteful fresian leather I assume
<directhex> hot pink, as found in all the classiest sex clubs
<popey> Ircing in the  curry house
<penguin42> Haskell with NaNs?
<popey> mmmm curry
#ubuntu-uk 2014-04-13
<shauno> huh, haven't seen that before.  ebay listing with scotland on the list of countries they don't ship to
<shauno> but they do ship to the uk & ireland
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> any word on channel islands? :D
<shauno> they're not listed :)
<shauno> odd list though
<shauno> Amman-JORDAN, Aruba, Bolivia, Barbados, Belize, Cameroon, Cayman Islands, China, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Grenada, Guatemala, Guadeloupe, Guyana, Honduras, Iraq, Jamaica, Liberia, Macedonia, Martinique, Monaco, Pakistan, Philippines, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, San Marino, Serbia,  Scotland, Sri Lanka, Trinidad and Tobago, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Uruguay, Panama, Virgin Islands (U.S.)
<shauno> san marino & monaco are kinda non-obvious too.  and they don't ship to china?  they're *in* china!
<shauno> but scotland boggles the mind.  especially since they specifically state their average shipping times to the UK
<daftykins> lol
<shauno> perhaps they see it as a disputed territory now
<shauno> oh well.  I shouldn't be on ebay at 3am anyway
<daftykins> ugh new neighbour youngsters are having a party again
<daftykins> this is not cool
<Azelphur> daftykins: there's a simple way to deal with that
<daftykins> yeah? :)
<Azelphur> daftykins: get some really loud speakers, put them right up against the wall, and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm368W0OsHo
<daftykins> i phoned ze police but i'm not sure if they bothered to attend
<daftykins> oh. my. word.
<Azelphur> I am brilliant, yes?
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> i fear this would do more damage to me than them, sir
<Azelphur> bonus points if you have the stuff to hijack their speakers
<Azelphur> lol
<daftykins> but that is definitely weaponised audio
<Azelphur> http://lifehacker.com/5852903/silence-noisy-neighbors-by-transmitting-signals-through-their-own-speakers
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> sadly it seems to be mostly chatter
<daftykins> ok i must sleep, ty for the amusement!
<daftykins> \o
<mapps> :D
<mapps> finally everyones back
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dwatkins> hihi
<dwatkins> I spent most of yesterday afternoon crafting careful instructions on creating a partition on an iSCSI target with the optimal IO size only to find they were completely ignored.
<dwatkins> I think that's strike 2 for this particular friend, next time will be the last time I help him if it goes the same way.
<popey> directhex:             done      811.0 MB Rate:   0.0 /   0.0 KB Uploaded: 75133.0 MB                 [   R: 92.64]
<popey> shall I stop it now?
<penguin42> wth are you uploading?
<popey> that's directhex's steam fork thing
<directhex> popey, yeah, sure, there's probably plenty of seeders
<directhex> i can't seed again until my new HDD arrives
<mapps> afternoon
<daftykins> weird, had emails from someone saying their domains have expired - registered directly with nominet 0o
<daftykins> quite how they managed to get them without a registrar i don't know
<mapps> emailed nominet?:D
<daftykins> ?
<mapps> maybe thats how they did it direct;y
<penguin42> daftykins: Was it a normal org.uk or the like?
<daftykins> one .co.uk and one .org.uk
<daftykins> neither are actually setup with any services, just purchased
<penguin42> something like a registrar that went bust - not sure what happens then?
<daftykins> oddly if i login on nominet, it just wants to charge for transfer to another person
<daftykins> so... to attach them to a registrar i presume i just go to the registrar site and say 'transfer domains' ? :)
<daftykins> stupid 123-reg wanted payment details entered when the total was Â£0.00 :>
<penguin42> was that as a verification?
<daftykins> nah it was just sort of 'add transfer to basket'
<daftykins> http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-028-CR
<daftykins> wow.
<daftykins> 240GB Crucial M500 - Â£79.99 in VAT land
<mapps> is that good
<penguin42> coming down nicely
<daftykins> yeah, they're clearing stock as the M550 is out, but that's a pretty solid drive
<daftykins> oh dear accidental puns galore :(
<mapps> heh
<daftykins> i've already got SSDs everywhere though so no need here really
<daftykins> more have to do something about my decrepit RAID array :<
<daftykins> http://anandtech.com/bench/product/807?vs=355
<daftykins> that's pretty shocking
<penguin42> you mean how they manage such a low read bandwidth?
<daftykins> well i'm comparing it there against the m4, which is both its' predecessor and a drive i own in my laptop
<daftykins> once you get down to the sequential read section the M500 seriously suffers in comparison
<daftykins> without even checking that must be down to larger and so fewer NAND dies
<daftykins> so less to operate in parallel
<dwatkins> I'm waiting until 1 TB SSDs are about that price.
<dwatkins> Most likely it'll be a long wait.
<daftykins> how come? :) most scenarios i imagine involve a smaller OS disk then a large mechanical for storage
<dwatkins> My laptop only has one drive bay.
<daftykins> ah
<dwatkins> I suppose I could fit a second drive in an adapter in the optical bay, though.
<daftykins> yeah i'd go that way :)
<penguin42> dwatkins: Does it have an mSATA slot?
<dwatkins> penguin42: I don't think so, it's a MacBook Pro, mid-2010
<penguin42> ah
<daftykins> ah-har same age as my clients one i upgraded
<daftykins> is it the 13" dwatkins ?
<dwatkins> yeah, 13"
<daftykins> i put a 256GB m4 in my clients, nice straight swap, so easy to work on MBPs of course :)
<daftykins> were it today i might go with a 256 or 512GB Samsung 840 Pro
<daftykins> the EVOs are newer but i don't trust TLC
<dwatkins> I assume the best thing to do with having two disks is to mount /home (i.e. /Users on OS X) as the spinning disk and have the SSD for the OS.
<penguin42> dwatkins: On my main desktop I have my /home on the ssd as well, but have a /discs/spinny - that way all my dot files and stuff are still fast
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> you can symlink your sorta 'media' directories into your /home so chunky data is off SSD but still accessible
<dwatkins> I'm using over 900 GB on this laptop, hence wanting a 1 TB SSD.
<daftykins> ouch
<dwatkins> aye
<daftykins> it your sole machine or something? :)
<dwatkins> it's my main machine
<daftykins> primary i should say
<dwatkins> everything but games
<daftykins> what takes up the space?
<foobarry> wife spilled tomato soup on the laptop :(
<dwatkins> music, apps, probably a bunch of downloaded ISOs I might be able to clear off
<dwatkins> also, some virtual machines
<dwatkins> I imagine those are the killer.
<daftykins> foobarry: D:
<dwatkins> :( foobarry
<shauno> I did the optical bay adaptor with mine.  love it.
<dwatkins> where do you mount the two disks, shauno?
<shauno> I have ssd in root, and the other just hanging around in /Volumes for storage
<shauno> with surprisingly little in the way of symlink mess .. just one for steam
<dwatkins> nifty
<shauno> oh, ~/Documents is a symlink too
<shauno> the only real issue I've run into is appstore apps that aren't allowed out of their 'container'.  you can't move/symlink their containers :/
<dwatkins> ah yes
<shauno> random question .. what's the term used for the poles used in kites?
<shauno> on ebay, "kite pole" found windsock poles, and "kite shaft" found chinese contraceptives :/  (and just a generic fibreglass pole is mostly tent parts)
<daftykins> kite rod ?
<shauno> hm, that's getting closer
<daftykins> or 'kite frame parts'
<foobarry> think the lsptop will be ok. some gunk removed from under keys
<foobarry> only corner of keyboard affected
<foobarry> aaa
<foobarry> no its ok
<daftykins> \o/
<mapps> lsptop?
<daftykins> machines for speech therapy
<daftykins> ;)
<mapps> hm youve got a macbook pro? nice
<mapps> i wouldnt mind one..but i want a bigger screen than they offer
<shauno> yaknow, that never really appealed to me.  I took a look at the 17", and it felt like it should have fold-out table legs
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> yeah the whole point of a laptop to me is mobility and battery life
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<shauno> happy standardized greeting, bigcalm
<bigcalm> UGT :)
<daftykins> morning sir
<daftykins> how do?
<mapps> heh
<shauno> Voyager just got weird.  it feels like they tried to swap out Kes for 7of9 in one episode and hoped no-one would notice
<mapps> yea
<mapps> but theyre so expensive i figure i want maximum screen real estate
<daftykins> shauno: lol
<daftykins> shauno: i'm on the final season of DS9 now at last
<daftykins> however apparently wars can be delayed so Sisko and his team can have a friendly baseball match in the holosuites
<shauno> I went for the high-res screen (not the retina) for 'real estate', rather than moar inches.
<penguin42> whats the current nice/easy thing for graphing bandwidth/temperatures/etc ?
 * penguin42 wants pretty graphs
<foobarry> rrdtool? cacti? graphite?
<shauno> mrtg isn't pretty?  ;)
<diddledan> just been reading this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-11/nsa-said-to-have-used-heartbleed-bug-exposing-consumers.html
<diddledan> why does it not shock me any more?
<diddledan> I'm like "yeah, of course they were/are" now
<diddledan> shauno: <3 mrtg :-p
<shauno> if it's true, it kinda plants them firmly in "against us"  :/
<directhex> loonicks :D
<bigcalm> Moonpigs
<diddledan> http://weebls-stuff.com/songs/8-Bit+Amazing+Horse/
<shauno> that's not a moonpig?
<diddledan> no, it's not
<shauno> not the first time you've disappointed me
<diddledan> I thought we'd agreed never to mention that again
<shauno> ugh, I have to hike to the post depot again :(
<shauno> it takes me about an hour to walk there and back.  I got a missed-delivery note through the door on thursday.  hiked out there on friday.  and when I got home, there was another missed-delivery note waiting!
<diddledan> >.<
<shauno> worst part is, it's dealextreme sending lots of little bits seperately.  so an hour there and back, to discover it's another little $2 gizmo that you forgot buying
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-06
<daftykins> ja
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5glmssiaojtbwgr/IMG_20150406_021348.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> *hic*
<mapps> hey
<mapps> ;D
<mapps> none of the night owls up?:D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> death from above...
<zmoylan-pi> technically it's _a_ greeting :-)
<zmoylan-pi> everytime i wear my dr and quich t-shirt 'eat plutonium death, you disgusting alien weirdos'... :-)
 * penguin42 giggles at Amazon uk offering an Azerty keyboard on discount starting at 9am tomorrow - like about a million bleary eyed people aren't going to notice the Azertyness
<diddledan> arty noon
<penguin42> hey
<m0nkey_> PC parts arrive today
 * m0nkey_ is excited
<diddledan> \o/
<m0nkey_> And Windows 8.1 is costing me $107 :/
<diddledan> fooey
<m0nkey_> Getting $12 off the original $120 price
<popey> pip pip
<m0nkey_> wow. it's 99GBP in the UK.. that's $184 CAD
<m0nkey_> I'm getting a bargain!
<penguin42> yeh we're always screwed
<zmoylan-pi> it's a bargin as it's shipped on floppies... :-)
<m0nkey_> License purchased
<popey> Heathen
<popey> (says the guy playing GTA IV on Windows 7
 * zmoylan-pi casts ward evil on the channel :-P
<m0nkey_> lol
<m0nkey_> Gonna need it for my gaming. Sorry.
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: careful,that might clear the channel out completely
<zmoylan-pi> nah the spell only effect chaotic evil so... ... bugger... :-)
<diddledan> I think I probably come under the chaotic banner
<m0nkey_> WHAT?! I need Windows to download Windows?! wtf
<diddledan> eh?
<zmoylan-pi> i'd have said neutral evil diddledan
<diddledan> m0nkey_: doesn't it come on a disc?
<m0nkey_> I opted for digital download
<diddledan> aah
<m0nkey_> So, I assume that it'll offer an ISO image
<diddledan> prolly, yeah
<zmoylan-pi> assume...
<m0nkey_> No, it offers an executable
<m0nkey_> To download/install Windows
<diddledan> there should be an iso available
<m0nkey_> Yeah, but no.
<m0nkey_> You have to go looking for it
<m0nkey_> Found a tool from microsoft to create a 8.1 iso image
<m0nkey_> Of course, it's an executable.
<zmoylan-pi> they like to advertise that installing windows is fun.  the first fun is finding the bits you need...
<m0nkey_> Heathens for not providing a proper ISO image
<m0nkey_> But, I have one now. Just need to find a blank DVD
<zmoylan-pi> ah, firefly alignment chart... :-D http://i.imgur.com/ut1mbBW.jpg
 * m0nkey_ quits (Reason: spell cast by zmoylan-pi [WE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF WINDOWS])
<m0nkey_> :)
 * zmoylan-pi puts up some garlic to flush the vampires out next...
<m0nkey_> And i'm going to have to upgrade my Netflix account.
<diddledan> o_O
<m0nkey_> Turns out 2 screen is not enough
<diddledan> I thought netflix only had one plan
<diddledan> i.e. all you can eat or nothing
<m0nkey_> Here, I got three options. 1 screen SD, 2 screens + HD and 4 screens + HD&UltraHD.
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> that's sucky
<diddledan> we just have "netflix"
<m0nkey_> You got Netflix, check out your account plan details.
<m0nkey_> I'm guessing you have additional options
<shauno> we only get one option.  I can haz moneys or I can no haz moneys.
<shauno> it does seem to vary though, eg the US still has dvd-by-mail plans, which never existed here
<m0nkey_> We dont have the dvd mailing option
<m0nkey_> Two streams isn't enough, as I found out yesterday. Both kids had something different on tablets. So we I went to watch, it told me "Too many sessions"
<shauno> oh huh, I do get three options.  I don't recall being offered options
<m0nkey_> Kids these days, don't know how easy they got it.
<zmoylan-pi> i think you disable the kids wifi and free yourself some bandwith :-)
<m0nkey_> I remember having to wait a whole 10 mins to download a 10 second mpeg from a por^H^H^H video site.
<zmoylan-pi> i remember having to wait 10 minutes to load a zx spectrum game thank you very much :-)
<m0nkey_> Heh, I miss my ZX81
<zmoylan-pi> but it was star glider so it was worth it
<m0nkey_> Manic Miner!
<zmoylan-pi> docking complete!
<m0nkey_> Or my personal favourite, Rik Mayall's - How to be a complete b*****d game
<m0nkey_> I miss that guy
<m0nkey_> He was so funny
<zmoylan-pi> i watched the young ones and blackadder since, total brilliance
<m0nkey_> You should also re-watch Bottom
<zmoylan-pi> and that too, slipped my mind
<zmoylan-pi> have them on dvd
<diddledan> bottom was mad
<diddledan> off-the-wall doens't quite cover it methinks
<m0nkey_> # Wait a minute Mr UPS guy. Wai-wai-wai-Mr UPS guy. Look in your truck for a package for me! #
<zmoylan-pi> i keep meaning to keep an eye out for the new statesman
<diddledan> my internet is really slow toady
<zmoylan-pi> should be a bit faster now that turkey has no youtube or twitter...
<diddledan> oh?
<zmoylan-pi> that's a lot less cat packets been shuffled around :-)
<diddledan> why turkey no do twitter?
<penguin42> diddledan: Something about them publishing some pictures from a terrorist seige
<zmoylan-pi> because they think it's the only way to protect the people from pics of terrorist acts from last week
<diddledan> *le sigh*
<zmoylan-pi> the guy who voiced gerry adams is hoping for more work... :-P
<diddledan> o_O
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Do you think he's versatile enough to do all potential terrorist voices?
<diddledan> I don't get the reference
<diddledan> "the guy who voiced gerry adams"?
<penguin42> diddledan: It's from when there was a ban on broadcasting Gerry Adams voice on TV
<penguin42> diddledan: So the news orgs just played someone else voicing what he'd said
<diddledan> I didn't know there was such a thing
<zmoylan-pi> we need mel blanc to voice *all* the terrorists
<diddledan> terrorists are usually all just "durka durka jihad" tho, aren't they?
<zmoylan-pi> every country has weird censorships that have come up over the years, the new method is to just block certain sites
<diddledan> "what's he saying?" "it looks like kiss me"
<diddledan> I wonder if netflix has that yet?
<diddledan> looks like not in the uk
<diddledan> a teeny bit risquÃ©, but for adults in the room, john oliver talks to edward snowden: https://youtu.be/ykfGWcmUbbk
<Azelphur> So, I'm going to USA this week and I have no idea of what things to buy and bring back, suggestions?
<diddledan> Azelphur: are you sure they'll let you leave?
<directhex> gin!
<Azelphur> diddledan: amusingly no, not really xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: Well, now that you can get Oreo's in Europe there's really no point is there....
<Azelphur> penguin42: dude, kispy kreme.
<penguin42> Azelphur: We can get those in Manchester
<penguin42> Azelphur: (at an exhaubitant price)
<diddledan> don't forget to tak your false identity passport and the fake beard
<Azelphur> penguin42: but do you actually have the proper krispy kreme shop that'll give you drive through made on the spot donuts?
<penguin42> Azelphur: We do have one
<diddledan> we get krispy kreme in tesco
<Azelphur> penguin42: madness
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea but that's just a shitty cabinet, it's not the same
<penguin42> Azelphur: There are at least a couple of actual Krispy Kreme shops including one that has the bakery and I've had a fresh kk off the line still hot and dripping - it's wonderful
<Azelphur> penguin42: exactly, it really is wonderful
<Azelphur> British people usually have no idea just how good Krispy Kreme is xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'm not sure if they do that all the time, it was just after they opened and they were giving away some of the fresh ones off the line as you waited to buy others
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> Nah, in US they'll send you an SMS when they have a batch ready
<Azelphur> and you just drive through and pick it up
<directhex> there's a krispy kreme outlet at oxford castle complex
<penguin42> Azelphur: https://goo.gl/maps/2fhSH
<directhex> and another in the MK shopping centre
<Azelphur> directhex: that's the stuff :P
<Azelphur> but yea, last time I went out there it was black friday and I stocked up on HDDs, SSDs and some other misc bits :P
<Azelphur> this time I'm gonna get a GTX 980 because my GTX 570 is about to break
<directhex> i'm delaying my new pc again.
<directhex> for money reasons, again
<directhex> stupid crummy car
<Azelphur> Kinda tempted to get a new board + CPU while I'm out there, but DDR4 is annoying me
<directhex> but given current delays, the 980ti should be out by the time i'm buying
<zmoylan-pi> maybe if they release a car that runs linux...
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: plenty of IVI systems are linux-based
<Azelphur> things I like about going to America: i7-4790K in USA: $279.99, in UK? Â£265.
<zmoylan-pi> yeah the $->Â£ price conversion is slightly annoying
<daftykins> Azelphur: heh gotta get a few to make it worth your while :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> it's baseball season once more \o/
<daftykins> now if only i can work out how to watch it without trashing my waking hours
<Myrtti> wheee hat works
<diddledan> \o/
<Myrtti> needed a bit of help with the code because I had stared it for days but atleast it's ready for the London trip this week
<m0nkey_> new PC is up and running
<daftykins> \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-07
<x85> hi
<diddledan> ello
<mapps> hi a
<mapps> :D
<mapps> hey diddledan
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning MooDoo
<bashrc_> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy World Health Day! :-D
 * zmoylan-pi *coughs*
 * JamesTait hands zmoylan-pi a pineapple.
 * zmoylan-pi puts pineapple were the sun doesn't shine...
<davmor2> JamesTait: how can they have that after all that chocolate
<zmoylan-pi> to make people feel guilty :-)
<JamesTait> Which came first, World Health Day or the Easter Egg? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> the easter egg, it predates christianity :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: the Egg
<MartijnVdS> The Egg!
<MartijnVdS> http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html
<MooDoo> egggggggggs
 * JamesTait is disappointed that nobody bought him an Easter egg.
<davmor2> JamesTait: I did but eat it on the way sorry
<zmoylan-pi> would you want an easter egg sent by random internet stranger? :-)
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's the thought that counts though right
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: maybe we did buy you one, you just didn't find it yet!
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, you mean I have an Easter egg hunt?
<JamesTait> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> list for the ticking easter egg...
<zmoylan-pi> *listen
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: eggsac-tly
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, what could possibly go wrong?
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: it's the bomb?
<davmor2> JamesTait: yes the clue is, it's in the shop down the road with a price tag on it
<davmor2> JamesTait: now go find it
<zmoylan-pi> the clue is to look for the sign 'clearance sale'
<JamesTait> davmor2, hopefully a much smaller price tag than last week, what with the main event being over and done with.
<JamesTait> Great minds, zmoylan-pi. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: indeed
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<zmoylan-pi> see also '3 for #5'
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<mapps> hm better call soul is so overrated
<davmor2> MooDoo: I think that is enough chocolate for you
<popey> mapps: i disagree :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: awwww spoil sport
<popey> i have 2 episodes to watch actually, thanks for the reminder!
<zmoylan-pi> now you'll find them better as they've been downplayed...
<davmor2> MooDoo: if you can add that many g's to eggs you have had too many ;)
<MooDoo> lol
<Myrtti> immediately my hat has proven its usefulness
<Myrtti> apparently the sun is blessing my part of UK with 8/red UV index
<davmor2> Myrtti: it electrocuted the thief that tried to steal it?
<mrwheels> nick x85
<Myrtti> well no, I just got an immediate reminder to apply my SPF50 on
<x85> hi
<davmor2> Myrtti: hahaha
<Myrtti> which is exactly why I needed the hat
<davmor2> Myrtti: nice
<Myrtti> and the red RGB led is dead useful too
<davmor2> Myrtti: this is the crocheted one with the adafruit board that you showed right, just checking we are on the same page
<x85> hows everybodeh
<davmor2> x85: relaxed
<Myrtti> davmor2: yes, finished the code yesterday
<davmor2> Myrtti: nice
<Myrtti> https://bitbucket.org/myrtti/adafruit-uv-hat
<x85> davmor2, cool
<Myrtti> readme needs more instructions but I'll get to that right after I've planted the tomatoes and beans
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what the error messges is in the event of an atomic disaster...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: very cloudy
 * x85 has been wondering is it possible to wipe OS X from the system and use ubuntu
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: high hot winds
<zmoylan-pi> ...with a chance of mutants...
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: eventual vapourization
 * popey has closed the blind
<popey> ETOOMUCHSUN
<x85> :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: that or go bright red and have the piezo speaker scream and a plug it in to the message Nuclear Factor 1000 block required
<Myrtti> I had that when we were in London for 9.04 release party
<Myrtti> davmor2: it already goes bright red in this sun
<Myrtti> so you'd have to think of something else
<x85> i know i can but it requires the refind boot loader
<Myrtti> https://bitbucket.org/myrtti/adafruit-uv-hat/src/b0fc89bc4944e6023f1035432717587bdd13c9a4/flora_uv_neopixel.ino?at=master#cl-207
<x85> i don't really want to mod the boot loader if i have to
<x85> ubuntu on the pi 2 works awesomely
<Azelphur> Hmm, anyone smart with train tickets? Going from Margate, Kent to Hounslow for a hotel right outside Heathrow, then when I return I wanna go straight back to Margate, do I have to get two separate tickets for that or can I do it on a return?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: margate eh? :) I'm staying there for a night next month :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: really? I live here. Maybe I'll say hello :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yeah, going to Dunkirk -> Dover (sleep in Margate), then driving around the south a bit
<Azelphur> cool
<davmor2> x85: you can just install it on most apple macs it will just overwrite what is there, unless you create free space.  I think refind is only needed if you want to daul boot
<Azelphur> yea, where ever you are you'll be within walking distance of me
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: what ya doing here, having a holiday?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yeah
<MartijnVdS> filling up my camera's SD card ;)
<Azelphur> cool :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: if you're into old British buildings and stuff, you'll want to hit up Sandwich
<MartijnVdS> *opens google maps*
<Azelphur> and Broadstairs is kinda cool too, it's where Charles Dickens used to live, so you can see bleak house and some other stuff
<Azelphur> it's all relatively close by, if you're after sight seeing / camera fodder
<MartijnVdS> I'll add it to my list of places to visit :)
<Azelphur> and if you need any assistance / have questions or whatever, feel free to hit me up :)
<MartijnVdS> ok! :)
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: amusingly my apartment is kinda camera fodder too, https://www.google.com/search?q=the+royal+seabathing+hospital+margate&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=7cp&channel=fs&gl=uk&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=FNMjVdz5Ho25aayugdAJ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1707&bih=900
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: my hotel for the night is 5 minutes away, on the eastern esplanade
<MartijnVdS> (also you live in a hospital?!)
<zmoylan-pi> no warning bells there whatsoever... :-P
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea most of the hotels are up there, I walk up there all the time
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, it's a former hospital, it was abandoned back in the 60s? I think and then converted into apartments about 10 years ago.
<davmor2> popey: how long before your desktop pc looks like this http://www.totalgeekdom.com/?p=1725
<zmoylan-pi> i would have thought by now that the mac mini size and shape would have been standardised on so that you could create a mini hifh shaped stack of external components to do what you want
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: looks like Intel's nuc form factor is more like that
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: oh Margate also has a free art gallery, if you're into art
<Azelphur> me and the gf found it really weird when we went though...it's all weird art :P
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: osm
<MartijnVdS> isn't most art? :P
<zmoylan-pi> but a lot of manufacturers assume you are going to dedicate a lot of deskspace to some weird oddly shaped device of theirs
<Azelphur> osm?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: typo
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: dunno, usually I figure art is like, paintings
<MartijnVdS> also missed backspace and hit enter instead 8-)
<Azelphur> not actors pretending to be dead on the floor
<Azelphur> or photos of dudes wearing t-shirts with nipple holes cut out
<davmor2> Azelphur: Traditionalist :P
<Azelphur> lol
<MartijnVdS> how do you know they were pretending
<popey> davmor2: hah, that's great
<davmor2> popey: gotta love looking at the news scope at lunch :)
<popey> hah
<davmor2> popey: it's in the tech section :)
<davmor2> popey: the best of it is as soon as I saw it I thought popey would like that :)
<x85> woo got ubuntu on my mac
<x85> without any janky bootloader
<x85> uh-oh firefox's browser text is micro
<x85> uber happy now
<mapps> yay
<mapps> ;D
<x85> now i only need to solve wifi issues
<x85> woo
<x85> :/
<x85> its 7.04 all over again
<x85> lollol
<zmoylan-pi> if it was easy to install were would we get the sense of achievement?? :-)
<x85> zmoylan-pi: lolol true
<diddledan> I like sensitive achievement
<diddledan> now can I get to the post office before 17:30 I wonder?
<x85> just the wifi is driving me nuts
<diddledan> methinks I'll have to leave it till tomorrow
<diddledan> x85: broadcom?
<x85> diddledan: yea
<diddledan> x85: you prolly need the b43 firmware then
<diddledan> there's a firmware cutter in the repo to extract it
<diddledan> I forget what you need tho
<x85> itd bcm 4360
<diddledan> x85: sudo apt-get install firmware-b43-installer
<x85> i installed the driver from the driver tool but it seems to drop out intermitantley
<diddledan> oh you must have the firmware then if you're getting connection
<diddledan> intermittance can be a pain to figure out
<x85> i'll run that anyway to check
<x85> it installed some stuffz
<diddledan> hmm, the b43 page says it's unsupported
<diddledan> http://www.linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43
<x85> brb gonna reboot
<x85> font scaling still sucks blah
<x85> in firefox
<diddledan> this looks funky: https://www.scaleway.com/
<diddledan> they have some serious density: https://www.scaleway.com/images/blade.png
<diddledan> that's 18 individual computers in one 1u/half-depth case
<diddledan> fun thread: http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/881219-24-subnets-a-security-risk?utm_campaign=digest&utm_medium=email&utm_source=digest&utme=groups+popular1
<diddledan> eww @ evi lurl
<diddledan> should I shorten that for you?
<shauno> bit late now :/
<x85> so i has mint on my macbook
<x85> woo
<x85> still buzzing about it
<webpigeon> diddledan: heh
<mappps> well thats odd
<diddledan> oops
<diddledan> dominos just raped me
<diddledan> mappps: what's odd?
<popey> diddledan: you can probably think of more appropriate verbs
<daftykins> i seem to recall dominos was obscenely priced when i was living in England years ago
<daftykins> never really went in for the pizza thing since at the time the idea of delivery pizza was alien
<diddledan> daftykins: they still are :-p
<shauno> but they let us order online, so :(
<popey> they're cheaper if you collect
<popey> much cheaper
<shauno> I only get their two-fer deals.  one for tonight, one for tomorrow
<daftykins> ah 'leftovers' or reheating things is also alien to me :>
<popey> reheated pizza ftw
<popey> also cold pizza
<directhex> if you pay full price for takeaway pizza you're doing it wrong
<shauno> I'd say so!  they're 20e each here.  that's like .. a pint for 2 slices
<daftykins> i've just thrown in a co-op 'meat feast' which is excellent value for money
<daftykins> lovely and spicy, huge diameter thin crust for Â£3 \o/
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bflpzuat2aakw5f/IMG_20150408_003419.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> mmm-mmm
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-08
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjeX5drV9ms
<daftykins> http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/04/07/may-cover-revealed-deus-ex-mankind-divided-568435.aspx
<daftykins> a new Deus Ex!
<daftykins> Renegades 0o doesn't look quite... legit
<directhex> well that's unexpected. https://instagram.com/p/1L95FDv9Ks/
<knightwise> morning peeps
<daftykins> g'morn
<knightwise> hey daftykins how are ya today
<daftykins> mmm none too shabby ta, just watching the cat getting into all kinds of morning mischief... which makes her name Mischief very apt :D
<daftykins> and yourself? what fun has today in store?
<knightwise> Working from home today. So i'm gonna take some time off to go to the store and pick up and SD for my RaspberryPi2
<daftykins> ^_^
<knightwise> and then do my quarterly taxes
<daftykins> ooh i keep forgetting about doing my tax return
 * knightwise has his own company so ...
<knightwise> we need to do this every quarter
<daftykins> :(
<knightwise> paperwork is done so we just need to send it to our accountant
<knightwise> hmmm.. copying over some old data from a desktop for a friend
<knightwise> I forgot how much hideous noise this things make
<daftykins> mechanical disks? :)
<knightwise> yep , and fans , and beige boxes
<knightwise> #horrible
<knightwise> and .. WINDOWS
<daftykins> works for me (:
<knightwise> I know , for me too but .. I had to reinstall windows for him
<knightwise> I HATE doing that kind of support, especially on those desktop clunkers
<daftykins> as in it was just a bit of an antique? :D
<daftykins> 'cause desktops are ace
<knightwise> its indeed an atique
<knightwise> core 2 duo
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> a friend wants me to help christen a new family desktop today i believe
<daftykins> involving carting some data over onto it off the old
<daftykins> i sense the new thing will be Windows 8 :(
<knightwise> hmm.. hate that
 * knightwise has no local data on ANY of his systems
<knightwise> its all on the nas or in the cloud
<daftykins> there was a time when i took my file server down for maintenance, PSU gave up the ghost - i was without access to all my content for days :D
<knightwise> ouch
<knightwise> A lot of the data of the company is stored offsite (cloud or has a remote copy)
<knightwise> Same goes for our pics and our music collection
<daftykins> hmm that reminds me i ought to leave a spare drive at my parents with my music on so there's at least that off-site
<knightwise> pretty important
<knightwise> i've been going through my old backup cd's this week and pulling off any data I still needed to save them from diskrot
<daftykins> i put one co's docs into their google drive account once, as they already had google apps... but interestingly it killed windows search within that path
<knightwise>  yep , i think onedrive IS searchable
<daftykins> hrmm not seen that working in person, i've linked some videos my xbox has created off it once or twice, though
<daftykins> someone i know with an iMac and a Windows laptop needs docs synced between both, i was thinking of just giving dropbox a bash
<daftykins> owncloud could've been fun, but with a dynamic home IP i think that'd be messy
<knightwise> Then why not go for bittorrent sync ?
<daftykins> i don't entirely trust the privacy on that one
<daftykins> haven't seen v2 though
<knightwise> I use it for the remote backups.
<diplo> daftykins: Syncthing!
<diplo> :)
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> mornin
<daftykins> hello sir
<daftykins> diddledan: new Deus Ex!
<daftykins> \o/
<davmor2> Morning all
<daftykins> heya
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hey daftykins
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Draw a Picture of a Bird Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> tragic story behind that one
<daftykins> not big-bird?
<daftykins> nooooooooo!
<JamesTait> It'll be all the more tragic if I decide to participate.
<daftykins> hahaha
<daftykins> same here
<JamesTait> msm__, are you responsible for this one? A cunning ploy to try to get me to showcase my "talent"? ;)
<msm__> JamesTait: Ha ha. DO you know, I've never drawn a bird!
<msm__> although there is always a first time :)
<msm__> There is a rather cute (and picture worthy) robin in my gardne
<zmoylan-pi> not even the wonky m in the skies of pics as a kid?
<msm__> zmoylan-pi: oh yes, there were those
<zmoylan-pi> so you have technically drawn a bird then :-)
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, I even managed to make those not look like birds. ;)
<msm__> JamesTait: Now I'm going to have to draw a bird!
<JamesTait> msm__, glad to be of inspiration. :-P
<msm__> Oh yes :P
 * JamesTait looks around, realises his camera is nowhere to be seen.
<msm__> JamesTait: Bad planning!
<msm__> :)
<JamesTait> I have images to transfer from the SD card, so I can't argue with that!
<JamesTait> ~v~ <-- bird
<zmoylan-pi> m <-bird
<zmoylan-pi> . <--bird that is very very far away :-)
<TwistedLucidity> (")>
<popey>  ^
<zmoylan-pi> steam wafting over a cup of coffee... good idea :-)
<zmoylan-pi> kettle approaching boiling, choccie biccies located...
<popey> Elevensies!
<zmoylan-pi> exactamundo!
<popey> i just had a toasted bagel and coffee
<popey> and a smoothie
<knightwise> popey: sound yum !
<Myrtti> I'm trying out some coffee I got from TK Maxx
<Myrtti> not too bad
<popey> I think my taste buds are shot. I can't tell the difference between one coffee and another.
<popey> or indeed instant
<Myrtti> I can't stand the Finnish drip machine stuff anymore
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Bagel. I have bagels. I also have an empty tum-tum. I wonder what the solution could possibly be.....?
<popey> need butter
<zmoylan-pi> think of the money you save drinking instant instead of silly expensive coffee
<diplo> Stop talking about food please!!!! I'm so hungry and no food here!
<popey> hah
 * zmoylan-pi has cheese trianges for bagels later
<popey> Last night I had a bagel for tea, toasted, buttered, added cheese then microwaved for 20 seconds to melt it
<popey> was yum
<popey> and nuclear hot
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Instant is "emergency coffee"
<Azelphur> popey: been trying out Ubuntu touch on my tablet recently, not much of a fan right now though, it's weird how they haven't brought over some easy to port stuff that'd make the platform so much better (eg VLC)
<zmoylan-pi> this is emergency coffee as no bugger will touch it till the dogs milk runs out... :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Coffee
<popey> "easy to port"
<popey> feel free to do that
<popey> what tablet out of interest?
<Azelphur> Nexus 7
<popey> k
<Azelphur> popey: I would assume it supports mir already, if not you could just use xmir, I bet it has a touch/tablet theme too
<popey> ahhh assumption
<popey> no, it doesn't support mir
<Azelphur> then xmir would work fine anyway :P
<popey> and xmir isn't on the phone yet, but is under development
<popey> not finished yet
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> that's one of the main things I was interested in having, xmir
<Azelphur> that'll be a killer feature when it lands imo
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, and congrats to Team Ubuntu for no longer being treated like a leper on the Dell site. Listed as an OS option and everything!
<knightwise> Still jonesing for the new xps13
<Azelphur> popey: that said I haven't looked super deeply into Ubuntu touch, are there any cool features I'm missing? :)
<TwistedLucidity> It looks like a semi-decent machine. Not sure why only 8GB for RAM for a "developer" edition. But that's small beans really.
<Azelphur> I'm dual booting my nexus 7 so I can happily swap between Android and Ubuntu touch, I just haven't found anything I'd actually use touch for yet lol
<knightwise> I ordered the ubuntu phone , expect it to arrive anytime soon now.
<knightwise> so if i'm correct dell now has complete driver support for the xps13
<Azelphur> knightwise: cool, feel free to field the above question too, I'm just looking for cool things to do with it / cool apps :)
<knightwise> Azelphur: i'll do a review for the knightwise.com and carry it around for a couple of weeks
<Azelphur> nice
<davmor2> incoming for JamesTait
<davmor2>            _ _.-''''''--._
<davmor2>          .` `.  ...------.\
<davmor2>         / |O :-`   _,.,---'
<davmor2>        '  \   ;--''
<davmor2>        | _.' (
<davmor2>        ,' _,' `-.
<davmor2>        : /       '.
<davmor2>        \ \         '
<davmor2>         `.|         `.
<davmor2>           `-._        \
<davmor2>               '.  ,-.  \
<davmor2>   .__          _`.\..`\ \
<davmor2>   ,  ''- . _,-'.,-'  ``: \
<davmor2>   '-...._ (( (('-.._    \ \
<davmor2>          `--..      `'-. \ \
<davmor2>               `..     '   \ \
<davmor2>                  `\ \fsr   `"
<davmor2>                    \/
<davmor2> I cheated and brorrowed someone elses :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, toucan play at that game!
<davmor2> bad dum tish
 * popey tuts
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> popey, JamesTait: http://www.chris.com/ascii/index.php?art=animals/birds%20%28land%29 there are some really nice one here :)
<bigcalm> Apr  8 12:12:11 INS01AMR01 postfix/smtp[24458]: connect to smtp.mailgun.org[50.56.21.178]:587: Connection timed out
<bigcalm> What might cause connections to an SMTP server to timeout?
<knightwise> google forgot to renew the cert
<knightwise> if you are using gmail that is
<awilkins> As someone said, they probably forget their Google Calendar reminder :-)
<knightwise> great quote ! :
<JamesTait> davmor2, smaller ones as well. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: yeah but I wanted to spam you with something you would cherish for the day :P
<JamesTait> You're all heart, davmor2. ;)
 * bashrc_ thought google had fixed that
<bigcalm> davmor2: that list is missing the BBC Micro logo
<JamesTait> bigcalm, is it trying to talk SSL on the STARTTLS port, perhaps? I've seen that either drop the connection immediately or time out.
<davmor2> bigcalm: possibly trademarked all of them are assigned sigs so I suppose they can't list trademarked stuff without permission maybe ?  just a guess though
<bigcalm> JamesTait: oh, how might I check?
<bigcalm> JamesTait: I'm doing this via postfix config
<bigcalm> Taken from https://rtcamp.com/tutorials/linux/ubuntu-postfix-gmail-smtp/
<davmor2> bigcalm: telnet the port
<JamesTait> I usually use tcpdump for stuff like that.
<davmor2> bigcalm: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/postfix.html testing it is listed lower down
<JamesTait> If there's nothing obvious in the logs - I can't remember if Postfix logs anything sensible when it happens.
<bigcalm> Looks like telnetting to 587 is going to timeout
<bigcalm> I fear I will have to get in touch with the hosting company
<JamesTait> bigcalm, you could try changing the port on the relayhost to 25
<davmor2> bigcalm: check if there was an update that change the config on you
<JamesTait> And I assume also in the sasl password config.
<bigcalm> Postfix couldn't connect to mail servers on port 25 (timeout) so I thought I'd try an authenticated SMTP server. But that's timing out as well
<davmor2> bigcalm: just thinking out loud on that one, ie if you are pointing at the port you expect to work and it is pointing at another, also check you ssl/starttls certs are valid
<bigcalm> Annoying when a hosting company restricts outgoing traffic from a server
<JamesTait> bigcalm, yeah, smtp.mailgun.org responds on both ports 25 and 587 from here.
<bigcalm> JamesTait: and from my own machine but not the server
<bigcalm> davmor2: just updated ca-certificates but it didn't change the outcome
 * bigcalm goes to find lunch
<bigcalm> Thanks for the debug tips guys
<JamesTait> No worries. :)
<TwistedLucidity> A little flock for you all: ð¦ ð¦ ð¦ ð¦ ð¦ ð¦ ð¦ ð¦ ð¦ ð¦
<davmor2> bigcalm: that will 10,000 credits please
<TwistedLucidity> (Unicode 1F426)
<popey> bah!
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_four
<popey> that's using flash isn't it?
<intrbiz> popey: yes it's flash
<popey> :(
<intrbiz> popey: why?
<popey> flash sucks :)
<Azelphur> I actually "made the jump" and uninstalled flash last week
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry some bank or government department will put up a page that requires it :-)
<Azelphur> I have chrome for that, but I use Firefox (without flash) as my daily driver
<moreati> looks like VLC can use these URLs for streaming BBC radio http://www.suppertime.co.uk/blogmywiki/2015/04/updated-list-of-bbc-network-radio-urls/
<popey> need to update my radio tray urls
<popey> thanks moreati
<popey> \o/ works a treat
<popey> http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/apr/08/ship-this-bed-tv-ad-asa-bedworld is fun
<awilkins> If they're smart they're buying shipthebed.com right now
<awilkins> And it's slightly ruder compatriot
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/11520819/Google-looking-at-buying-Twitter.html
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Why am I reminded of the warnings before Billy Connolly stand-up shows, and people would *STILL* write in to complain?
<zmoylan-pi> people like to complain
<popey> people are idiots
<popey> hmm, that radio 4 link doesn't work on firefox OS
<popey> i feel less annoyed now
<TwistedLucidity> Everyone except me!
<zmoylan-pi> simple people of the land, you know, morons :-)
<popey> wish it used html audio rather than relying on flash and some android app :(
<TwistedLucidity> popey: R4 links works perfectly.
<TwistedLucidity> But I do have the "HAL" stuff installed that Flash needs and is no longer provided.
<TwistedLucidity> Oh, Firefox **OS**. What was that about me not being an idiot?
<TwistedLucidity> Heh
<popey> i didnt say the links didnt work
<popey> but yeah, on ffos
<popey> (I don't have hal btw)
<TwistedLucidity> Now that DRM has been baked into HTML, can't see it being too long before the drop Flash.
<TwistedLucidity> But the BBC have been a bit less co-operative of late with non-standard platforms
<diddledan> thething with drm being baked into html is it still requires a plugin
<zmoylan-pi> there will be sites that require flash in years to come. just because
<TwistedLucidity> diddledan: Aye, but the API is there.
<diddledan> we're removing the proprietary flash plugin and replacing it with the proprietary widevine plugin
<apt-get-moo> isn't this just the flash story all over again?
<TwistedLucidity> And as it's just there to "OK" the content coming through, does it take anything to do with displaying the content?
<diddledan> it has to decrypt it
<diddledan> and drnm usually requires end-to-end encryption on the display chain using dvi or hdmi or displayport with hdcp
<TwistedLucidity> But it's just a stream, no? It doesn't care about filesystem access, user actions etc etc.
<diddledan> mozilla are planning on sandboxing the poo out of it, but it can still probably wiggle free
<bashrc_> frying pan meets fire
<bashrc_> flash is definitely on the way out
<diddledan> and we all have to thank steve bobs for that
<zmoylan-pi> we should get him a nobel peace prize or something...
<diddledan> too late, he died
<popey> tempting http://www.memorybits.co.uk/shop/microsd/sandisk-64gb-ultra-microsdxc-plus-sd-adapter-sdsdquan064gg4a/28252
<zmoylan-pi> oh, you have to be alive for a nobel...
<bashrc_> stevie started the trend, but really flash was hated long before that
<diddledan> popey: that's cheap
<popey> ya
<diddledan> get two at twice the price
<diddledan> that's the first rule of government spending iirc?
<bashrc_> would go well with something like a Rpi2 or cubieboard4
 * popey purchases
 * popey will be putting it in his ubuntu phone
<popey> and yay, just got a 10% off promo code, which is handy because I wanted a second card :)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> that's sneaky
<zmoylan-pi> they're reeling popey in... :-)
<popey> they always do that
<popey> I have bought from them many times
<popey> code is valid for 3 months too.
<popey> also http://www.memorybits.co.uk/shop/search/sandisk-ultra-128gb-microsdxc-uhsi-memory-card-with-sd-adapter/27444
<popey> :)
<popey> imagine one of those in a converged phone...
<zmoylan-pi> my first pc had 20mb drive...
<ali1234> yes, imagine the huge storage capacity of an ssd from 3 years ago, combined with the transfer speed of a hdd from 10 years ago
<diddledan> 360KB floppies FTW
<zmoylan-pi> then when i added a 32mb cf card to my psion i felt invincible!! :-)
<popey> anyone got any idea why this might happen? http://paste.ubuntu.com/10759863/ bug 1441053
<lubotu3`> bug 1441053 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Two network adapters on same LAN causes 30s drop-outs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441053
<ali1234> google dns has been acting up recently
<ali1234> by recently i mean the past 24 hours
<popey> i could use any other IP and the same happens
<ali1234> sure, just saying
<popey> but yeah, i saw that too
<ali1234> you have both adapters connected to the same network?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> why would that even work?
<diddledan> popey: what about pinging other devices on your lan?
<popey> its always worked
<popey> I've had this laptop 3 years and for most of those 3 years it's been sat both wired and wifi at the same time, no issue
<davmor2> popey: you on vivid?
<popey> i am now, yes
<ali1234> i'm going to blame systemd
<popey> heh
<popey> i could boot an old iso pre-systemd and test it I guess
<popey> if I could find one...
<diplo> I have the same, both enabled, never any issues. Sorry couldn't help more :)
<diplo> Anyone here use Ansible at all ?
<bigcalm> o/
<zmoylan-pi> the ftl communicator in sci fi...? :-)
<popey> morning bigcalm
<diplo> Do you use it for ssh keys at all bigcalm ?
<bigcalm> Ello popey
<intrbiz> diplo: to deploy ssh keys?
<bigcalm> diplo: um, I already have the ssh keys in place
<diplo> I've seen the authorized_keys module, but what I'm thinking of doing is having one authorized keys file that I add remove from and push it as a file rather than use a specific module
<diplo> Yeah so do I currently, wanting to automate removing / adding to lots of sites when someone leaves
 * bigcalm passes over to intrbiz
<popey> hmm, wonder if I can even uninstall systemd
<diplo> But our users come from windows machines/linux servers etc so authorized_keys module won't work totally as wanted
<ali1234> well you should be able to, i mean the first thing that happens when anyone mentions problems with systemd is someone comes along and shouts about how easy it is to uninstall it
<intrbiz> diplo: I use the following: http://pastebin.com/wPCLd1JB
 * bashrc_ likes systemd
<intrbiz> diplo: if you just push one file, you need to make sure permissions are correct, and you won't play nice with other things or people
<ali1234> i'm still using trusty
<intrbiz> diplo: why won't authorized_keys module work?
<diplo> Well if I do it like you've done, I'm guessing the public_keys is a directory with peoples pub keys ?
<intrbiz> diplo: yup
<diplo> Because some keys will come from puttygen etc, the way I was reading that module was that it looked at peoples home dirs etc
<diplo> Yeah that may work instead
<intrbiz> diplo: when someone leaves you simply move the pubkey to revoked dir
<diplo> I like that idea!
<diplo> I'm very very new to ansible, just like the simplicity!
<intrbiz> diplo: putty just has a different format, it's easy enough to reformat to the openssh format
<diplo> ssh keys is always an issue, don't ask what the staff at my place are like ( they still use telnet!!!!!! )
<bashrc_> never used ansible. What's it for?
<shauno> communication at greater-than-light-speed
<diplo> Think puppet/chef but without having to run client side agents bashrc_
<intrbiz> bashrc_: config management / deployment, it's like puppet, but less overhead
<diplo> All over ssh
<bashrc_> oh ok
<diplo> Spin up a VM to test now
<diplo> bah, tidied the machine up to reinstall and removed them all! :/
<awilkins> Does the "Let's Encrypt" CA actually get shipped into Firefox / Chrome etc?
<awilkins> Ah, they're not up and running yet
<diplo> I've been waiting on them too
<intrbiz> awilkins: IIRC their root was or is going to be cross signed
<awilkins> intrbiz, Guess I'll get one from StartSSL
<diplo> Q: How will your root be trusted? A: Initially, with IdenTrust cross-sig. Will apply to root programs ASAP.
<intrbiz> awilkins: yeh, if it is non-commerical
<diplo> intrbiz: Do you use ansible in a big way ?
<intrbiz> diplo: I use it to deploy stuff as much as I can, not got any large scale stuff.  Used to manage around 100 machines with Puppet before
<diplo> I'm having a truly hard time convincing my boss this is the way forward ( Automation not specifically ansible ) they still build everything manually
<diplo> So spending a bit of time with out them knowing setting up one of our sites locally, and when he visits in the next few weeks I want to show how quickly I can deploy an exact setup ( takes them hours atm )
<diplo> Did I mention they still use telnet!
<intrbiz> diplo: ah, argue that automated deployments leads to more standardisation, higher quality deployments, less errors and after initial period, quicker
<diplo> Done that, like pounding head against a brick wall, actions speak more here
<diplo> I've written more documentation in the last few years than the rest of the 17 staff have in the last 15!
<intrbiz> diplo: I like that with Ansible I can setup servers or work on servers which have been hand built, etc, running over SSH is a big win when you can't have an agent or master server
<diplo> yeah defo, that's what I liked about it the first time I heard about it, watched a few youtube vids and was sold
<intrbiz> diplo: hehe :) deployment scripts also end up being a form of documentation
<intrbiz> diplo: nothing stop just you using ansible to deploy stuff, people are likely to follow when things work better for you
<diplo> yeah, they don't write any comments in any of their code, so hopefully me writing this and documenting it and commenting it may start to sink in the usefulness of it
<diplo> yeah, exactly what I'm thinking, deploy my local test vm's etc
<intrbiz> diplo: what kind of stuff are you deploying?
<diplo> We sell our own ERP software, text based with a browser based one in the works too, so it's setting up clients servers and making changes etc
<diplo> We have about 80-100 customers, about 150 servers running CentOS 4 to 6
<diplo> Web servers for the E-commerce part as well
<diplo> Routers and mail servers for a lot of those customers too
<diplo> We are the security nightmare!
<intrbiz> diplo: note with centos 5 you need to install the python-json rpm
<diplo> ah okay, noted thanks, only a few sites on 5, most are either 4 ( yes i know its EOL! ) and the rest on 6
<diplo> We can't move to CentOS7 yet as the software wasn't written to support 64bit ( our own compiled software )
<awilkins> Doesn't CentOS 7 have multiarch?
<diplo> maybe, this software was written 15+years ago, fixes to make it work here and there
<diplo> I think it specifically looks for x86 in uname, it's fixable to run, just going to take time
<knightwise> ok , picking up a micro sd card later on for my raspberry pi
<knightwise> I was thinking of hooking it up to a monitor and running mate on it but i don't realy see the point
<zmoylan-pi> because you can... :-)
<intrbiz> diplo: not based on Progress per chance?
<awilkins> +
<awilkins> Oops
<diplo> Nope, Simple - simple by name and nature
<diplo> It was another companies software, we bought them out about 10 years ago and now own the license, albeit we are pretty much the only ones who use it now
<diplo> Another 5 years maybe and it'll be out of our hair :/
<intrbiz> diplo: ah ok
<diplo> Most of our staff are in their late 40's early 50's, been writing in it for 15-20 years
<diplo> Started off in proper machinee code :)
<intrbiz> sure
<awilkins> Heh
<diplo> GOTO 10 :P
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like you'll be hiring them past retirement to keep it running
<awilkins> I worked for a company that had to buy the Rich Text Format widget they were using because all their reporting depended on it and the company that sold it went to the wall
<diplo> That's why me and my friend were employed, we worked for a company that used the ERP, but we were so big that we coded stuff ourselves for it, we had the source code
<diplo> They basically can't employ anyone with our skills, I won't touch it though :)
<diplo> Sounds like us awilkins
<awilkins> We had escrow agreements with all our customers to be able to deliver the source if WE went bust
<diplo> But it is so huge it's taken years to move stuff away from it, we're basically abstracting it now to our own software in c++ and eventually will be able to use any front end to interact
<diplo> The company I used to work for had the same awilkins, we were too locked in with them to not be
<awilkins> This was all VB3 of course :-)
<diplo> :(
<awilkins> It won't even run on 64-bit windows because it has no 64-32-16 bit thunking layer
<diplo> Our web front end is currently php, but we've also written a c# client and android app
<awilkins> TBH you learn a lot from using cheesy languages like VB3
<awilkins> When you can write good code in VB, you've gained something in terms of discipline
<zmoylan-pi> vb is not a bad language. it's tainted by basic and all the bad variants of those
<zmoylan-pi> but the current versions are no longer basic
<awilkins> Indeed
<awilkins> I refuse to learn VB.NET on the grounds that it will erase my VB6 EEPROM
<ali1234> come on... vb makes basic look like the best language ever
<awilkins> And VB6 will be one of the COBOLs of the future
<zmoylan-pi> and they let you paint yourself into a corner unlike languages of the time like pascal that made you do things the 'right way'
<diplo> yeah I guess, same can be said for simple, we've written key generators and stuff like that in it now that was supposed to not be able to be done
<bashrc_> on error continue all the things!
<diplo> ooh vm is nearly done!
<awilkins> Ugh
<awilkins> I know of at least one "professional" coder who puts "On Error Resume Next" at the top of everything
<bashrc_> yes I think that was it
<awilkins> It's actually possible to do proper structured error handling in VB, I have some nice libs for it
<davmor2> awilkins: you really need to stop doing that
<awilkins> I have a VB6 dev kit on a VM in my archives
<bashrc_> back in the day people would routinely use that, and it resulted in debugging nightmares
<diplo> You never want to look at our code :D
<diplo> it is a nightmare! No comments, some of the programs are 5-6k lines long
<zmoylan-pi> never look at someone elses code :-)
 * awilkins has Java programs where some of the *classes* are 5-6klines long
<diplo> hah
<zmoylan-pi> i remember 'fixing' some ancient code where it was 10k lines in one text file, no functions or procedures. just gosub and goto...
<bashrc_> I think that's known as a hairball
<zmoylan-pi> and line numbers were in an interesting nonsequential order...
<intrbiz> I decompiled a Java app we brought in in a previous job, to debug some lockups
<zmoylan-pi> i saw it as more kerplunk :-)
<intrbiz> their util class was 26,000 lines long
 * awilkins finds the Java class with 6.125 klines of copde
<awilkins> Well, that's a nasty smell right there "Util class"
<intrbiz> hehe
<intrbiz> I have on in my code, it is mostly used for: static isEmpty(String s)
<intrbiz> this product was pretty special
<intrbiz> web forms software
<intrbiz> riddled with bugs
<awilkins> isEmpty(String s) because s may be null?
<awilkins> or "empty" includes whitespace?
<intrbiz> awilkins: s == null || s.length == 0
<awilkins> Would probably prefer to just use Preconditions.assertNotNull(s) on the first line
<awilkins> If null has a special meaning, deal with it explicitly, otherwise, treat it as an error
<intrbiz> not always an option when dealing with user input
<diddledan> thankyou LinuxFormat: they pointed me to https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/hollywood/trunk
<xboxOne> Uhh
<xboxOne> What is the difference between Ubuntu and Ubuntu-uk?
<daftykins> that one is primarily support
<daftykins> this one is regional and strays a little more off topic and chatty
<xboxOne> Ah
<daftykins> if you have a question, you can ask in both - but might get more responses over there
<xboxOne> But you also provide support, right?
<xboxOne> Is true people saying Ubuntu is dying?
<daftykins> that doesn't sound like a support question to me
<xboxOne> LOL!
<xboxOne> You said this place is chatty
<xboxOne> so I am chatting
<daftykins> good for you :)
<xboxOne> Hey guess which IRC client I am using? :)
<daftykins> i don't know how anyone gauges any given distros lifespan
<daftykins> er i'm not especially fussed
<xboxOne> Well, people say because it uses unity
<xboxOne> it sucks now
<xboxOne> and therefore off the wagon
<daftykins> plenty of other desktop spins to use, xubuntu, lubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu gnome, ubuntu MATE
<xboxOne> Man, there is just lots of flavors for Ubuntu
<daftykins> yip
<m0nkey_> Heh, not forgetting the rest of the other window manager, awesome, ratpoison, gnustep, e17...
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-09
<knightwise> morning everyone
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo
<awilkins>  German Basketball team relegated to lower league by Windows Updates : https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=15/04/07/2051229
<awilkins> I see a market for RasPi powered basketball scoreboards emerging in Germany
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Indeed. A salient lesson in why "Autocratic Updates" should be disabled on production systems, and that laptop was a production system.
<TwistedLucidity> We lost access to source control for 2 days becuase of an auto-update to ActiveDirectory.
 * TwistedLucidity was not a happy camper
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Cherish An Antique Day! :-D
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> oooh http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/09/holborn_fire_outage_could_have_covered_200m_jewelry_heist_says_excopper/
<Lemongrab-> hi. using nvidia-settings, i set the preferred res, save to xorg.conf, verify that the config file has been written, reboot, and the changes do not take effect. anyone know anything that might help?
<Lemongrab-> so to clarify, any customised settings revert on restart
<Lemongrab-> here's the xorg.conf: http://pastebin.com/iupYhprU - does it look ok to you? all i want is to set res to 1360x768
<directhex> these settings are unacceptable!
<directhex> sorry
<directhex> ehm... would need to see xorg.0.log to make any determination
<directhex> depending on the age of the TV, samsung may have only provided 1024x768 in the data stream about valid video modes (EDID) which is what the driver is trying to match against
<diplo> Anyone here self employed, just had a customer ask about using any other accountancy software apart from Sage? Asked me for recommendations, I have no idea... his accountant has recommended some 'cloud' based ones
<Lemongrab-> directhex, the res sets fine, it just doesn't save any settings changes
<Lemongrab-> directhex, http://pastebin.com/c1ng0hr5
<directhex> Lemongrab-: and you've manually set the res after about 4 minutes, because it was wrong?
<Lemongrab->  directhex, within a few mins yeah
<Lemongrab-> weird right?
<directhex> i can see that, on line 367
<directhex> i can see the res being set wrong on line 355
<Lemongrab-> yup
<directhex> but
<directhex> it should be set right on line 130
<Lemongrab-> what's NVIDIA(0) anyway?
<directhex> those lines are logged by the nvidia driver itself
<Lemongrab-> yeah NVIDIA(0) seems to change it again on 355 right?
<Lemongrab-> so some other process must be changing it
<directhex> you're connected via a VGA connector, or a DVI-VGA dongle?
<Lemongrab-> dvi -> hdmi
<Lemongrab-> if i could disable nvidia-auto-select it might help
<directhex> er wait, what?
<Lemongrab-> nvidia-auto-select is what appears to be overriding my settings at line 355
<directhex> that's the fallback
<Lemongrab-> even though it's not specified in the xorg.conf
<directhex> Option         "nvidiaXineramaInfoOrder" "CRT-0"
<directhex> CRT-0 is the VGA connector
<Lemongrab-> ok...
<directhex> delete that line, and change the metamode line to DPY-0:1360x768+0+0
<Lemongrab-> Option         "metamodes" "DPY-0:1360x768+0+0" <-- like that?
<directhex> yeah
<Lemongrab-> ok, rebooting, brb :)
<Lemongrab-> directhex, nope :(
<directhex> odd. can i see the new log?
<Lemongrab-> sure
<Lemongrab-> directhex, http://pastebin.com/5xcbvGut
<directhex> try DVI-I-0: instead of DPY-0: ?
<Lemongrab-> ok trying
<Lemongrab-> nope
<directhex> ._.
<Lemongrab-> http://pastebin.com/dWD6YTcJ
<Lemongrab-> i've tried reinstalling nvidia drivers, although this is a spanking new install
<Lemongrab-> had no problems with this before the reinstall though
<Lemongrab-> i guess i could try alternate nvidia drivers?
 * davmor2 wraps JamesTait in bubble wrap
<davmor2> JamesTait: Although I should probably wrap popey and MooDoo in bubble wrap as they are older even than me ;)
<directhex> Lemongrab-: i don't see anything in the logs that tells me what's going wrong. sorry
<Lemongrab-> :(
<Lemongrab-> thanks for trying
<popey> directhex: is there some way my son can play steam games that I've bought but not on my ID?
<directhex> popey: yes.
<popey> i.e. can I do some kind of "family" mode where his and my accounts are linked?
<popey> ooh!
<popey> how?
<directhex> ok NOW you['re asking.
<Lemongrab-> don't suppose anyone else has any idea? using nvidia-settings, i set the preferred res, save to xorg.conf, verify that the config file has been written, reboot, and the res is set to max available instead of my choice. xorg.conf: http://pastebin.com/QmzxRBT9 Xorg.0.log: http://pastebin.com/dWD6YTcJ
<directhex> popey: Steam, Settings, Family, Family Library Sharing
<popey> ahhh!
<popey> gets complicated when he has his own account on the pc
<directhex> popey: basically, YOU log in on HIS computer to say "i am fine sharing on this computer"
<directhex> by clicking "authorize this computer"
<popey> right
<popey> problem is it's one computer
<popey> dont want to download all the games twice
<directhex> that's fine too
<directhex> hm
<directhex> he has his own unix account?
<popey> yes
<popey> but I can put the games on a shared storage
<directhex> ok. create a new steam library, via Settings/Downloads/Steam Library Folders
<directhex> and give that folder a+rw
<popey> win.
<popey> thanks
<davmor2> directhex: you know way too much about steam :)  nice advice though
<Lemongrab-> directhex, it seems lightdm might be screwing with things
<directhex> Lemongrab-: aha. amazing.
<directhex> davmor2: http://apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/miscellaneous-junk/cedegahtml.png
<directhex> yes, i had anime wallpapers, when i was 20. cringe, etc
<zmoylan-pi> i downloaded 1-2 pics of star trek enterprise to use as wallpapers back in days of bbses but never used them
<directhex> i'm a much more mature man than i was aged 20. no more wallpapers of random anime girls.
<directhex> now it's Adventure Time!
<awilkins> Only very specific anime girls will do
<knightwise> directhex: good to see things are improving
<directhex> 2004 wallpaper: http://apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/desktop-screenshots/desktop-2004-11-23.png
<directhex> 2015 wallpaper: http://www.cartoonnetwork.co.uk/sites/www.cartoonnetwork.co.uk/files/Henchman.jpg
<directhex> i think it's better now.
<davmor2> directhex: :)  nice
<directhex> house currently has an adventure time naming scheme for computers, and CN have those nice episode title cards available at 1680x1050
<directhex> although my desktop is deliberately not adventure time. it's a legacy computer i want gone
<directhex> old desktop has http://gorillaz.com/images/xmas/xmas-22nd.gger4.jpg
<directhex> which is basically hip-hop, and not remotely weeaboo
<ali1234> did somebody say weeaboo?
<daftykins> wow, inadyn is a horrible client to configure - for afraid.org
<daftykins> (dynamic DNS)
<diplo> ddclient not work for you daftykins ?
<daftykins> not familiar with that one
<daftykins> < Auctus> lol GTA5 PC is 7 DVDs <-- lol
<diplo> That's the only one I knew of daftykins :)
<popey> people buy games on DVD?
 * popey clicks the "PRE-LOAD" button for GTA5 in steam
<popey> "Disk space required: 62064 MB"
<awilkins> Wowzer
<zmoylan-pi> of course i buy games on dvd.  will this movie dvd rip easy or is it going to take a few passes with different software?
<zmoylan-pi> 62gb? for a game? a downloadable (eventually) game
<daftykins> yep such is the way today, before DLC ;)
<zmoylan-pi> wait for the patches...
<daftykins> i've already 3/4 filled my xbox one's paltry 500GB HDD
<daftykins> nah the console generation have been used for patch exercise :D
<popey> http://www.tesco.com/direct/husky-stella-artois-beer-fridge/100-3809.prd?sc_cmp=tp4_aff_1018132
<popey> bargain
<daftykins> the guy i quoted is in New Zealand with really bad data caps btw, so Steam download isn't an option
<awilkins> "Beer sold separately"
<awilkins> Yet another case of an appliance costing less than it's liquid consumables
<popey> they're usually over 100 quid
 * awilkins pastes link to hackspace
<diddledan> morning
 * zmoylan-pi taps diddledan to see if his internal clock has stopped...
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> heya
 * awilkins checks timezone config on diddlebot
<daftykins> diddledan: you ought to convert to standard living hours, it's getting warm outside! :D
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> but. sunlight is bad for my complexion
<daftykins> you sir, have been misled
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/922345933/codebug looks like a fun thing
<diddledan> it looks like the bbc micro bit
<diplo> Looks like I'm up in Nottingham next week :/
<diddledan> I might back it tho
<diddledan> specifically because they're gonna make the desin creative-commons
<zmoylan-pi> that is more interesting to me than a smart watch.  small, cheap, and you could technically use the leds as a display
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: make it into a smart watch :-p
<zmoylan-pi> exactly.  bulky but probably a better battery life than an apple watch :-)
<davmor2> diplo: I think MooDoo is up that way
<awilkins> It is totally completely a rip-off of the BBC micro bit though
<awilkins> Same board layout, same 5x5 LED array
<zmoylan-pi> is the bbc micro bit going to be for sale to the public?
<awilkins> Different components
<awilkins> No, the BBCMB is only being issued to schoolchildren
<zmoylan-pi> then it's not really affecting the bbcmb
<awilkins> Which seems ludicrously silly, but there you go - why not benefit from the economies of scale  AND make a small profit from licensing the thing...
<zmoylan-pi> and the hacker community of adults will make a zillion great projects that might encourage kids
<awilkins> I'd lay small odds that the Kickstarter has been created by the guys they commissioned to make the BBC one
<zmoylan-pi> instead of a dull school led curriculum
<awilkins> Probably
<awilkins> I'm all for it - my license fee paid for it, the public should benefit!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<diddledan> tesco blinkbox are being awesome giving me at least one 25% or 50% discount every month since I signed up
<diddledan> and googley play-doh just emailed me letting me know that startwarts is available for preorder (the entire saga)
<diddledan> Â£59 for the lot
<diddledan> released tomorrow it seems
<awilkins> That's not Star Wars. That's just a bunch of movies that resemble Star Wars
<diddledan> awilkins: are you upset that they redid the effects?
<awilkins> diddledan, Don't mind the effects (except where the make mistakes like making Luke's lightsabre pink in some editions)
<awilkins> diddledan, I do mind things like the Han Shoots First scene
<diddledan> aah yes
<awilkins> And the scene where Han walks behind Jabba
<diddledan> han shoots first was a stinker
<awilkins> The notion that you could disrespect a local crime lord by walking on his tail and live is nutsen, to coin a phrase
<bigcalm> I have a hosted server running Ubuntu 12.04. For reasons, I have edited /etc/apache2/ports.conf to use 8080 and 1443 instead of 80 and 443. On the localhost, I am able to telnet to ports 8080 and 1433 and get the expected Aapche response. Connecting from a machine on the same subnet using the private IP address causes the connections to timeout. Connections also timeout when using the public ip address over the internet. Is there an
<bigcalm> ything other than the hosting company's firewall that might be causing this timout?
<awilkins> The Greedo scene really set the tone of Han's character for me - it's the scene I remember having the biggest emotional impact as a kid seeing it for the first time
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: but who shot first?
<bigcalm> Han did
<knightwi1e> so han is an A-hole ?
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, That was the original release, on a stuttery VHS cassette in a school assembly hall :-)
<bigcalm> He is an arse hole, that scene sets his character
<awilkins> Exactly - tells you exactly what you need to know, that he doesn't pull his punches and can't be trusted
<diddledan> it's that which lends to his character development into reluctant hero
<bigcalm> When Han is lowered into the carbonite freezing chamber and Leia says "I love you", his response is "I know". Another dick move
<awilkins> The recut scene just tells you that Jabba hires *really* incompetent bounty hunters with unfortunate nervous tics that lead them to shoot walls 5 feet away from their target.
<awilkins> Suspect the reason George changed it was because his grandkids had a negative reaction to it. You're *supposed* to have a negative reaction to it, George. You're *supposed* to go "whoa, that guys is kinda nasty"
<diplo> bigcalm: nmap'd the external IP address, see whats listening?
<knightwi1e> I only watch the VHS versions
<diplo> Sounds like firewall rules to me ?
<zmoylan-pi> i hope you remember to rewind afterwards... even the avi ripped version of the vhs copy...
<knightwi1e> LOL
<diddledan> awilkins: how many recuts does it take to make a great movie into a piece of trash and then finally into a great movie again? (see: blade runner, which is on it's 4th? 5th? recut and hasn't made it back to great yet)
<awilkins> diddledan, Not sure that continued recuts can ever get it back there... (the Blade Runner for me is the 1st Directors Edition without the voiceovers)
<diddledan> yeah the first directors was the version I enjoyed the most
<zmoylan-pi> aliens has 1-2 cuts, i like the version with the sentry guns
<diddledan> you can't beat the music to blade runner tho
<awilkins> Yup, sentryguns 4tw
<zmoylan-pi> well vangelis... any movie his music is in is special
<awilkins> And Vangelis is still a regular visitor to my playlist
<diddledan> I think the tone of the blade runner movie exteriours with the music shows a really interesting view of "the potential future"
<bigcalm> diplo: it's been passed back to the hosting company to look into
<diddledan> and the fact it's always raining
<knightwi1e> i think its one of the greatest soundtracks only
<knightwi1e> and i love the atmosphere in that movie
<awilkins> Wonder how horrible the sequel will be
<diddledan> bigcalm: did you tell it to stop listening on non-localhost?
<diddledan> bigcalm: you mentioned you tweaked the ports for localhost, so I assumed that meant you removed the ports for external
<bigcalm> diddledan: I didn't change what it was listening on. The system was previously serving correctly on ports 80 and 443. I just changed them to be 8080 and 1433
<diddledan> hmm
<bigcalm> No, only localhost was able to connect to 8080 and 1433.
<intrbiz> bigcalm: does the apache box have a local firewall, maybe try: ufw status ?
<MartijnVdS> maybe it's only listening on 127.0.0.1 and.or ::1
<intrbiz> netstat -nltp will show whats listening on what interfaces
<bigcalm> root@GRU01HES01TEST:~# ufw status
<bigcalm> Status: inactive
<intrbiz> IIRC apache by default binds to all interfaces
<bigcalm> That would explain why I couldn't find a setting binding it to an interface or ip address
<bigcalm> root@GRU01HES01TEST:~# netstat -nltp | grep apache2
<bigcalm> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:1443            0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN      2161/apache2
<bigcalm> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8080            0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN      2161/apache2
<intrbiz> bigcalm: that listening on all interfaces
<bigcalm> Indeed
<intrbiz> bigcalm: probably hosting ACLs, did you say your seeing the issues server to server on same subnet?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: iptables -L INPUT
<bigcalm> intrbiz: correct
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: no rules returned
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: telnet -b your.ip your.ip 1443
<MartijnVdS> (yes that's your IP twice)
<bigcalm> Which IP?
<Myrtti> I do hate Paypal quite a bit
<zmoylan-pi> has anyone ever expressed happiness towards paypal?
<bigcalm> Anybody know how to get Ruby to play nicely in Ubuntu?
<intrbiz> bigcalm: define play nicely?
<bigcalm> Or rather install Jekyll
<bigcalm> It's erroring on "execjs requires Ruby version >= 2.0.0."
<bigcalm> Humm, ruby2.0 is available as a package on Ubuntu 14.04
<intrbiz> bigcalm: are you installing jekyll via gem (or whatever it is)
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Ha, there is a jekyll package in Ubuntu 14.04
 * bigcalm goes with that
<bigcalm> Jekyll 0.11.2 now installed
<Lemongrab-> directhex, res working now, thanks again for the help
<directhex> jekyll <2.0 is basically garbage
<directhex> and installing newer in 14.04 is so painful
<directhex> so totes painful
<Lemongrab-> anyone know where i can see logs from openbox's autostart.sh? steam is loading fine but sixad --start isn't
<Lemongrab-> even though sixad --start runs fine from terminal
<Lemongrab-> oh wait, i just worked it out, sixad needs to be root, nevermind
<bigcalm> Are there good alternatives to jekyll? Requirement is to build a static site from markdown files
<Lemongrab-> anyone know if it's possible to switch desktop in openbox when certain fullscreen games wrest control of the screen until minimised?
<Lemongrab-> i'm actually guessing this is to do with the card wresting the screen and probably isn't possible, but thought i'd ask
<daftykins> between virtual desktops?
<Lemongrab-> daftykins, yup
<daftykins> doesn't seem likely, but i'm no desktop user
<mappps> ;D
<Lemongrab-> daftykins, you mean you don't even use a gui? :P
<daftykins> i do not use desktop Linux
<mappps> im a card collector! got like 12 bank/credit card accounts O_O
<mappps> cant remember the pin on all of course
<Lemongrab-> ah, for a second i thought you were some radical terminal purist :)
<mappps> i like xfce;]
<daftykins> nah i wouldn't make such silly statements!
<mappps> gonna have marinated shark tonight
<mappps> ;D
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> tasty
<zmoylan-pi> comes with a free laser? :-)
<mappps> ;D
<mappps> well i wonder what its like
<mappps> probably just like cod and a let down?:P
<daftykins> do all basic BT broadband connections really intercept the web browsings of newly wired-network connected PCs 0o
<daftykins> this friend just had to do some kind of hassle before browsing normally, very confusing
<elfy> I never had to - but I've been with them a while, maybe the do you or do you not want pr0n thing?
<daftykins> could well be
<elfy> I did get asked that a while ago
<daftykins> currently remoted into two PCs at a friends in England migrating their data to a new PC
<daftykins> omw their existing is terrible, probably partly to do with Norton 360 O_O
<elfy> heh
<daftykins> also - why do people believe their online banking when it says to install Rapport? it's terrible!
<daftykins> hmm a good 6Mb down, not bad for a rural place
<zmoylan-pi> how 'rural' is rural?
<daftykins> best i know about where she is is 'somewhere near Worcester'
<daftykins> so your guess is better than mine ;D
<elfy> not very I'd guess at 6Mb :)
<intrbiz> I get about 7Mb, in a rural area
<intrbiz> by rural, I mean 6 miles out of Wolverhampton centre
<zmoylan-pi> my brothers place is in the barren wastelands of wexford and most times i'm there i can't even see a 3g signal during the day
<intrbiz> I get no 3G on any network
<daftykins> i'm in a granite place in the town centre, i use 2G by choice :D
<zmoylan-pi> but at night the 3g appears as conditions improve
<daftykins> such are the ways of QAM
<intrbiz> well I get one bar on three, standing on one leg by one particular window
<daftykins> intrbiz: :D
<zmoylan-pi> so i told him to ring phone company once a month and ask for broadband.  took about 18 months till adsl was installed in his local exchange :-)
<elfy> when I lived in Fordingbridge - signal only when bouncing on a bed and then only half the time
<intrbiz> we were meant to have FTTC in december, then april, now june
<zmoylan-pi> and on dialup he used to only get 28kbs as his line was on a dax unit with neighbours
<intrbiz> I have seen BT vans with reels of cable, so something seems to be happening
<elfy> they did here, I get 38Mb down now
<daftykins> single pair split into two lines with some gadget, zmoylan-pi ?
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<daftykins> how horrid
<zmoylan-pi> the irish phone companies only say that your dial up line will do voice and fax.  fax works in 19,200 iirc
<diddledan> is there a tool like speedtest.net (or the cli prog that uses those servers) which will measure parallel downloads and uploads rather than single-connection?
<zmoylan-pi> bittorrent? :-P
<daftykins> why would you be doing that...
<daftykins> eww it's a BT Home Hub 4
<zmoylan-pi> is that the one that won't let you change dns server?
<diddledan> because I want to show off that my connection is about 230Mbps down and 30Mbps up
<zmoylan-pi> show off!
<daftykins> aww i can't even look because the 'settings' page is locked by a password that's printed on the physical device
<diddledan> (1*virgin 152Mbps/10Mbps + 1*sky 78Mbps/20Mbps :-p)
<diddledan> daftykins: you need to change that password to something more memorablethen :-p
<daftykins> it's a house in England! not mine :P
<zmoylan-pi> send in the drone to read the password! \o/
 * daftykins activates webcam
<daftykins> ;D
<zmoylan-pi> some sort of pi2 based skutter... :-)
<diddledan> daftykins: remember covering the camera with your hand doesn't turn off the microphone (as bruce & his willis found out)
<daftykins> i'm quite amused at a home shared PC being upgraded from a small form factor Acer i3 first gen to an HP with 8GB RAM and an i7 4790
<diddledan> 8GB is so passÃ©
<diddledan> I want 32
<zmoylan-pi> what you want is a sound proof jamjar with one of those christmas cards that plays 30 christmas carols feeding into the mic :-)
<daftykins> that's what my 7 year old core 2 quad has \o/ lovely DDR2
<awilkins> Work laptop has 16GB
<diddledan> this thing only has 4 :-(
<diddledan> but it's ultra-portable so it kinda makes up for that deficiency in other ways
<daftykins> sounds dangerously like a piece of fruit of the 'Air' variety?
<diddledan> close, surface pro3
<daftykins> oh that
<diddledan> I like it
<daftykins> shame you have to go in through the screen to upgrade :<
<diddledan> right. toilet break then settle down to watch the amazon aws global summit keynote
<diddledan> https://live.awsevents.com for anyone interested
<diddledan> oh, they'vepushed-it by 30 minutes, it's 1730 then
<diddledan> so this live stream of aws global summit is evil laggy
<diddledan> I donno whether it's me or them tho
<elfy> laggy
<diddledan> yeah, it seems the twitters are moaning about it
<diddledan> one twatted "BaaS (Buffering as a service) on the AWS Summit live stream"
<diddledan> it's completely dead now
<diddledan> don't you love how amazon are boasting their supremacy at super-big things on a stream that doesn't work. at all.
<zmoylan-pi> well the cloud... in this weather... :-)
 * zmoylan-pi sends out for ice cream...
<zmoylan-pi> â« just one cornetto... âª
<popey> â Unicode
<diddledan> the aws summits twitter says the stream is working. they're lying
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: give it to me!
<zmoylan-pi> on second thoughts they're 50p....
<zmoylan-pi> at least they used to be
<daftykins> be lucky to get change from a Â£5 note now :P
<zmoylan-pi> in ireland? you'd be right there :-)
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> a Guernsey Â£5 note no less
<zmoylan-pi> ah... funny money... :-)
<daftykins> aww yes
<davmor2> popey: I think I found my new most favourite place to eat in wolverhampton http://www.yelp.co.uk/biz_photos/greedy-pig-cafe-wolverhampton?select=thplx_sv7KQx6nhgbG3BKg#thplx_sv7KQx6nhgbG3BKg
<popey> wowzers
<davmor2> popey: you can feel your arteries harden looking at it right :D
<davmor2> popey: the things you find on the nearby scope hey
<popey> hah
<diddledan> that looks like a great fryup
<diddledan> I WANT IT!
<diddledan> heh:http://www.instructables.com/id/Apple-II-Watch
<m0nkey_> make it
<StevenR> hmmm. what happened to the alternate cd? (I need to help my dad assemble a raid, mount his LVM and find all of the kernels because grub is in rescue mode and /boot appears to be entirely empty
<StevenR> he's running 14.04 and updated today
<popey> can you not use a live cd?
<StevenR> I'd prefer to boot his working system
<StevenR> because it'll run a VPN up and I can ssh to a vm
<popey> why do you need the alternate cd?
<StevenR> popey: because that was the way to do it
<StevenR> can that be done from the normal server cd these days?
<popey> yeah. you can.
<popey> the server cd is a debian-installer based one
<StevenR> ok. I'll get him to grab that. Thanks
<popey> np
<diddledan> me ungy
 * diddledan wanders off to make a sammich
<diddledan> lol @ news widget: "labour takes lead in some polls as milliband announces tax avoidance"
<daftykins> RAID is so much saner when you keep boot out of it ;)
<diddledan> you could plop raid onto a mirror rather than a stripe (if we're talking linux's mdraid)
<diddledan> s/raid/boot/
<StevenR> right. So something happened to /boot. It now mounts, but it's completely empty apart from lost and found
<StevenR> How do I restore it?
<diddledan> StevenR: it's a three-step process - first you need to get a kernel by reinstalling the appropriate package from apt, then you need to run grub-install and update-grub
<StevenR> thanks. We need to fix apt first it seems (dad is sending me a photo)
<diddledan> eww
<StevenR> yeah. Something bad happened
<StevenR> yay. Apt segfaults
<StevenR> right. That's a problem for tomorrow
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-10
<knightwise> morning everyone
<diddledan> morning knightwise
<diddledan> I've been bashing my head against a brick wall for the past 12 hours trying to get freenas to join as a member-server to a samba4-powered active directory
<diddledan> finally found the problem
<diddledan> this comment had the answer: https://bugs.pcbsd.org/issues/6632#note-17
<diddledan> it seems samba's domain creation doesn't add a subnet to it's directory
<diddledan> (for windows admins subnets are defined in the "active directory sites and services" admin tool)
<diddledan> at least I think that fixes it
<diddledan> just re-checking and it seems broken still
<knightwise> diddledan: really ?  there is a link between AD and layer 3 of the OSI stack ?
<diddledan> lol: https://youtu.be/EOfy5LDpEHo
<popey> apot   Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> morning *
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: wow man you say morning to everything rather than everyone ;)
<zmoylan-pi> and 'all' excludes non sentients? :-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<awilkins> Groovy : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/boxzy/boxzy-rapid-change-fablab-mill-laser-engraver-3d-p?ref=NewsApr0915&utm_campaign=Apr+09&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Siblings Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> you've never met my siblings, have you...
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, if they're anything like you I'm sure they're not all that bad. :-P
<zmoylan-pi> i'm the nice one... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> well except for 1 sister and a fairly ok brother...
<zmoylan-pi> the rest are loonies
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> hmm experienced my first issue with owning an x86 tablet
<zmoylan-pi> battery life?
<foobarry> the picpac app doesn't create video or gifs
<foobarry> emailed the dev who replied straightaway to say it got broke in latest version and he would work on fixing it
<foobarry> i will forever be suspicious of apps that don't behave properly
<zmoylan-pi> i'm more suspicious of apps that change
<zmoylan-pi> broken apps i can often work around.
<foobarry> this is not poss to work around
<foobarry> i have an apk downloader installed on this laptop
<foobarry> am i gonna have to keep an archive of favourite apps:(
<zmoylan-pi> i think i have a directory around with all my old symbian apps somewhere... :-)
 * zmoylan-pi makes note to try python on current symbian phone...
<Laney> oh god
<Laney> open window â wafts of bacony goodness from the cafe behind
<Laney> http://drool.popey.com/
<popey> \o/
<awilkins> GF just reported that she will soon have a faceful of falafel
<awilkins> See ^ http://drool.popey.com
<Laney> mmm phalaphel
<diplo> Any VM users here ? trying to login a superhub
<diplo> 192.168.0.1 ?
<intrbiz> diplo: by VM you mean virgin media and not virtual machine?
<Laney> WTF rain
 * Laney screams and gets the bbq charcoal in
<zmoylan-pi> or course it's rain, the weekend is nearly upon us...
<popey> diplo: it's 192.168.100.1
<diplo>  Sorry yeah
<diplo> Browsing forums
<diplo> So Superhub page own't load, issues it seems with superhub, 18 pages of me as well
<diplo> They block PPTP by default and you need to enable passthrough
<diplo> And I can't do that on customers site
<davmor2> diplo, popey: I thought it was 192.168.0.1 unless you enabled modem only mode then it changed to 192.168.100.1 I could be wrong though
<diplo> Because I can't login :D
<diplo> davmor2: is correct
<diplo> Well according to a few posts I read
<diplo> Ah.. intrbiz, just wondering.. do you install your ansible via pip or apt-get ?
<popey> davmor2: you're wrong :)
<popey> davmor2: it's always 192.168.100.1 even if you use a different IP range
<diplo> The forums I've just been reading all agree with davmor2 - responses from VM staff as well
<diplo> 100.1 is status/stats in superhub mode it said ?
<popey> its been 192.168.100.1 for _years_ - since I was on ntl, years back
<diplo> yeah that was the status page of modem, not the login?
<popey> yes, the login too
<popey> it doesnt matter what your local network is, the modem always lets you get to it with 192.168.100.1
<diplo> heh, well I tried both anyway earlier and neither would load
<popey> you broke it :)
<diplo> Seems it's been an issue for a lot of users for over 2 years
<diplo> 18 pages of people complaining, only response they get is. Firmware coming soon, we'll send you a new one out, turn it to modem only mode fo rnow
<popey> hah
<popey> i had to reboot mine last night
<diplo> I keep debating going back to Virgin, but guess I should buy a router before I do
<diplo> :)
<intrbiz> I installed Ansible via zypper (I use openSUSE)
<intrbiz> diplo: best off asking bigcalm how he installed ansible
<bigcalm> diplo: ansible in apt is old. Use the github version
<intrbiz> is there a ppa?
<bigcalm> Oh, maybe I used the ppa, yes
<diplo> pip installs the newest I think
<diplo> But I'll look at a ppa too
<bigcalm> I've logged my install somewhere..
<diplo> I've setup a new host, waiting to speak to you two before I reinstalled to see preferred :D
<bigcalm> diplo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10792118/
<diplo> top man thank you
<bigcalm> The ppa is maintained by the Ansible peeps, so it's up to date
<diplo> Installing ta
<diplo> yeah same version as pip is being installed. prefer apt though
<foobarry> anyone know how to make a lawn grow from bare patch of ground?
<foobarry> turf or seed?
<zmoylan-pi> if you declare weeds to be a lawn it's easy :-)
<popey> seed will work at this time of year
<popey> bit of sun, bit of water
<foobarry> wifey is demanding a lawn for summer
<foobarry> and a patio :(
<popey> turf
<zmoylan-pi> dig for victory!
<foobarry> paying a man is Â£Â£
<popey> what else you gonna spend it on?
<foobarry> he wants 750Â£ for a lawn
<popey> models of spitfires?
<foobarry> a bed, a freezer, a holiday, clothes
<foobarry> university unds
<zmoylan-pi> original spitfires cost 5k new during wwii :-)
<foobarry> my lawn is ony 35m2 max
<foobarry> was gonna do it this week but been ill for 4 days :(
<zmoylan-pi> then rake, grass seed and shotgun to keep the birds and cats off it
<awilkins> LASERS
<foobarry> yes, i need a net
<awilkins> Grass lasers
<zmoylan-pi> lasers will only attract more cats
<awilkins> You attract the cats to the paths and side borders
<awilkins> They scare off the birds
<zmoylan-pi> cats see fresh tilled soil as predug toilet
<awilkins> Lasers are therefore the best lawn promoter. QED.
<foobarry> not sure if lasers are real
<zmoylan-pi> do not look at imaginary device with remaining eye
<popey> i got a tiny torch for my birthday
<popey> its very bright
<popey> Ti3
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/ThruNite%C2%AE-Mini-Ti3-Ti2-Flashlights/dp/B00NTVJD0U
<popey> but not pink
<foobarry> any recommendations for seed? miracle grow?
 * popey shrugs
<zmoylan-pi> seed is seed. depends on whether you want to look at or walk on or lie on the grass as to which you pick i think
<foobarry> some seed is special
<foobarry> magic beans
<shauno> just ordered one of these Aquaris wotsits :)
<knightwise> yoyo
<zmoylan-pi> hulu hoop
<knightwise> ok , mate runs ... pretty smooth on a raspberry pi2
<knightwise> 'pretty'
<awilkins> Does that mean "smooth as silk" or "cotton pillowcase"
<knightwise> well, if you arent spoiled with a pc purchased in the last 3 years ... its pretty smooth
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like a replacement for a 4-5yo netbook i use as mainsystem
<awilkins> I'm running a Pi2 as a webserver
<awilkins> Runs Ruby on Rails OK
<knightwise> awilkins: i think i'm gonna install raspbian on it , command line only
<awilkins> Yeah, that's what I've got on it. It's sat behind my TV being a quiet little server
<knightwise> its a great device
<knightwise> its running my command line apps , acts as an ssh server ....
<knightwise> Have it hooked up to my Synology
<diddledan> ebenink
<shauno> 'lo dan
<diddledan> edward snowden says to use the password "margretthatcheris110%SEXY"
<diddledan> ref: https://youtu.be/yzGzB-yYKcc
<brobostigon> new HIGNFY :)
<intrbiz> diddledan: (despite the reference to thatcher) its alot better than abc123
<MooDoo> evening all
<m0nkey_> Cities: Skylines is evil
<m0nkey_> I've played 3hrs stright
<m0nkey_> Since getting home
<shauno> and you're taking a break already?
<m0nkey_> just to grab food then right back i go
 * m0nkey_ loves his new PC
<m0nkey_> SO MANY GAMES!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-11
<m0nkey_> How Canadian is this.. Maple Syrup cola!
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> how is it?
<m0nkey_> Pretty good
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2kd7F3YFz8
<diddledan> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2vyhr6/apparently_terminator_runs_linux_version/
<diddledan> daftykins: that deus ex video is very cinematic in quality
<daftykins> sure is!
<daftykins> hmm just found Human Revolution (the last game) for Â£2.71 on amazon UK
<mappps> hmm
<mappps> marvel daredevil any good?
<knightwise> dont know
<knightwise> we are watching ARROW over here
<mappps> ah cool
<mappps> what ep you on?
<knightwise> a good chunk into season 3
<mappps> cool ive seen it all so far
<mappps> good series;D
<knightwise> they do a crossover with 'flash'
<knightwise> boy am i glad I dont watch that show
<mapps> ah had to reset router
<mapps> knightwise watch any other shows
<knightwise> currently watching Sherlock
<knightwise> i mean Elementary
<knightwise> thats not bad eiter
<knightwise> and thats about it , we dont watch a lot of tv
<knightwise> I love my webshows :) stuff yo can find on youtube like star trek fanmade stuff and that
<mapps> ahh ok cool...i watch elementary too:) but about 20 other shows too;)
<knightwise> i think we watch about 2 hours of tv a day an hardly any in the weekend
<knightwise> we ditched our cable connection a couple of months ago
<knightwise> i'm off :) going to powerwash the deck outside
<mapps> bit early isnt it??
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning *
<brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<zmoylan-pi> the tv show, i've seen a lot of folk rave about it
<zmoylan-pi> whoops, responding to commend from 0643 :-)
<shauno> I was gonna see, I've heard of this teevee stuff, seems kinda popular :p
<zmoylan-pi> it'll never catch on, it'll never have the great images that radio creates
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> blimey it's afternoon lol
 * zmoylan-pi waits for lift to ad&d...
<zmoylan-pi> gor the orc will smite the buggery out of the bad guys.  and probably be the brains of the outfit...
<StevenR> oh. wow. apt-get update doesn't work.
 * StevenR waits for the screenshot to appear in his mailbox
<StevenR> (Dad's PC has had something bad happen to it, so much so that /boot is empty and other stuff is badly wrong)
<moreati> StevenR: At that point I wouldn't bother to try and repair it. Just boot from usb or a cd, copy all your dad's data off and then reinstall.
<StevenR> moreati: it's several hundred miles away
<StevenR> finding all the data remotely is going to be challenging
<moreati> ah, i'll shutup then
<StevenR> fortunately the /home array isn't on the same disks as the OS
<MooDoo> phew
<MooDoo> hows everyone today?
<popey> great
<popey> new cat flap installed
<StevenR> YES! It lives. Sortof. It now kernel panics on something instead of barfing at the grub stage.
<popey> \o/
<popey> Progress!
<StevenR> yup
 * StevenR waits for the screenshot
<bigcalm> popey: using RFID chip in cats' necks?
<popey> nope
<bigcalm> Oh well, they are cool
<bigcalm> popey: how far did you get in GTA IV? I kind of stopped after a couple of jobs with Jacob
<StevenR> right. /etc/shadow appears to be hosed
<StevenR> hrrm. Cannot login as a normal user... login just fails. Can't run passwd user from rescue system, says permission denied.
<StevenR> hurrah. Reinstalled the pam packages and got a working system back
<StevenR> now we see what else is corrupt
<directhex> StevenR: protip: debsums
<Azelphur> Hey folks, what versions of the chromebook are nice and let you install Ubuntu on them?
<Azelphur> Or to bake the question down to its lowest common denominator: recommend me a laptop with insane battery life
<Azelphur> bonus points for USB charging too
<penguin42> I've seen it done on one of the earlier Samsung chromebooks (A15 ARMs)
<Azelphur> yea, I want intel anyway
<ali1234> http://www.scan.co.uk/products/101-asus-tf103c-1a031a-eeepad-intel-baytrail-t-z3745-quad-core-133ghz-1gb-1066mhz-16gb-android-44-bl
<Azelphur> ali1234, interesting, you can get ubuntu on that?
<ali1234> i dont see why not
<ali1234> most of the range runs windows
<Azelphur> ali1234, yea I wouldn't buy it unless someone had actually done it
<penguin42> Azelphur: I know there's one of the Fedora guys who does it to the Dell intel tablets
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> ali1234, in fact, google says no for Ubuntu on that, no BIOS only droidboot
<ali1234> buy one that has windows then
<ali1234> i kind of want to buy a pitop
<penguin42> Azelphur: https://www.happyassassin.net/fedlet-a-fedora-remix-for-bay-trail-tablets/
<Azelphur> penguin42, I'd prefer Xubuntu, I'd also prefer something that's a bit more laptop/PC like hardware wise so I have no issues
<ali1234> i also kind of want to buy a point and shoot camera that has wifi and runs android
<Azelphur> I want something more like a laptop where I can just install any OS and it should be fine, than say an Android tablet where that isn't going to happen
<popey> Azelphur: in general android intel tablets are not easy to install linux on
<popey> Azelphur: ironically the windows ones generally are
<Azelphur> popey, yea I can see why, ideally I'm trying to find something intel based with boatloads of battery life
<Azelphur> the goal being for it to be used on a plane
<Azelphur> USB charging is a mega plus
<popey> what would you be doing with it on the plane?
<Azelphur> watching movies, playing some ultra-light games (FTL?) and IRCing if they have WiFi
<Azelphur> maybe some old emulators too for retro games
<Azelphur> popey, any recommendations? :)
<popey> yeah, a tablet
<Azelphur> thanks captain vague :P
<popey> Well, last time I flew anywhere was 10 hours and I took my hudle2
<popey> -e
<popey> worked a treat for me
<popey> and it's still the primary tablet I use, and it's what, 6 months old now?
<Azelphur> yea, I took my nexus 7 and it was alright, plugged it into a hdd with usb otg and had a bunch of movies
<Azelphur> but really want a full OS + keyboard myself
<popey> oh, only 4 months
<popey> just for a flight?
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> because WiFi flights \o
<penguin42> Azelphur: I'm not sure it's any harder to get it onto the Intel tablets than it is on the chromebooks
<penguin42> Azelphur: Assuming you choose the right one
<Azelphur> penguin42, if you get a windows one it's probably ok, as long as it's intel
<popey> yeah, it is tricky on most
<popey> (most android ones)
<Azelphur> popey, I am so tempted by the hudl now though, they have them on sale refurb for like Â£76 and I have Â£25ish of clubcard credit
<Azelphur> works out I could get one for like <Â£20
<popey> bargain
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> crazy bargain, problem is I barely use my n7, so I feel like I'd just be buying it because its cheap
<penguin42> actually, to be fair the chromebooks might be easier; certainly the older ones Google made it very easy to do
#ubuntu-uk 2015-04-12
<mapps> hey all
<knightwise> yo mapps
<knightwise> howzyou ?
<mapps> not5 bad
<mapps> watching csi cber ep 5
<mapps> and you?:)
<mapps> hm csi cyber wasnt terrible in this latest ep
<directhex_> anything with CYBER in the name is awesome by definition
 * directhex_ looks at replacing his car
<zmoylan-pi> rollerblades are the future... :-)
<shauno> easy there Disco Stu
<directhex_> disco stu likes disco music
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> rocket powered rollerblades...
 * brobostigon is having a play with buntu touch on his nexus 4, simply for curiosity, but needs sw for his pebble, and something like irssinotifier.
<brobostigon> any suggestions?
<directhex_> quite liked the volt test drive
<zmoylan-pi> it sparked your interest? :-P
<diddledan> poor Jensen Button :-(
<diddledan> silly pastor maldonado
<diddledan> (I'm biased) :-p
<zmoylan-pi> how much does button earn per year again?
<diddledan> does he get extra for hitting the back of an opponent and making them retire?
<zmoylan-pi> didn't work for clarkson... :-P
<popey> ~12M per season or so
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> is that all, popey :-p
<zmoylan-pi> he's impoverished the poor man...
<zmoylan-pi> living rough out of his private jet at this stage...
<directhex_> zmoylan-pi: it was perfectly comfortable, and hit my #1 requirement when i buy cars
<zmoylan-pi> the cigarette lighter was really quick? :-P
<directhex_> better fuel economy than its predecessor
<zmoylan-pi> longer range?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<mapps> morning
<daftykins> went t check out the chapel my friends bought, tday
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u44l95btsuwd001/AABp3mPeOjeXm5RA3xpC8z4ca?dl=0
<daftykins> they're opening an art gallery in it \o/
<penguin42> nice
<MooDoo> evening all
<daftykins> heya
<popey> pip pip
<penguin42> pop
<bigcalm> Why couldn't GTA V have been released on Friday evening thus allowing the weekend be spent having fun?
<m0nkey_> Rockstar only deliver on Tuesdays
<m0nkey_> That's from prior experience playing on PS3 & PS4
<zmoylan-pi> lessens the load on their servers in case they're unprepared?
<penguin42> yeh probably
<zmoylan-pi> i never installed new software on a friday, it was tempting fate :-)
<m0nkey_> Releasing on Friday is a bad idea, nobody wants to work the weekend if stuff breaks
<bigcalm> I pre-installed GTA V on the 7th
<bigcalm> Should be able to decrypt it at 12am on the 14th
<daftykins> got enough beans in your PC to play it? :)
<directhex_> it's complicated
<directhex_> but it's a legacy retail issue
<directhex_> from the USA
<directhex_> http://uk.businessinsider.com/why-video-games-are-released-on-tuesdays-2014-11
<MooDoo> so you can install it but not play it....bummer, although how big was it, 60gb right?
<daftykins> around that i think
<zmoylan-pi> and by the time it omes out how many more gb of patches will it need? :-)
<MooDoo> lots and lots
<ali1234> 7 DVDs apparently
<Everyone> http://imgur.com/a/gYQYX?gallery#61
<Everyone> leaves.
<daftykins> well it's a game that i've played since November of 2013 when it released for the xbox360, so it's pretty well patched by this point ;)
<daftykins> but there'll likely be regular fixes going into the online portion yeah
<MooDoo> after watching all the gta iv video on youtube i might consider purchasing this
<popey> what the hell was that drive by link paste..
<popey> oh, our loon on isle of man.
<daftykins> MooDoo: IV or V? IV was pretty terrible in comparison :>
<ali1234> is there any difference between the GTA games?
<ali1234> i've only played up to san andreas
<daftykins> huge differences
<ali1234> they all seem pretty much identical
<popey> i should get an early night for the GTA V release tomorrow :)
<daftykins> it tends to be such that i can't handle going backwards because they change enough that you can't do things in the last that you can in the new
<shauno> 1969 has minis, the rest don't.  huge difference
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> do they have rows of them in the three colours?
<daftykins> and off in the distance you can hear the radio "...self-preservation society..."
<penguin42> nod :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-11
<mappps> hii
<knightwise> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<knightwise> anyone here ever owned a kindle paperwhite ?
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<brobostigon> knightwise: i do, yes.
<knightwise> brobostigon: are you pleased with it (which model do you have ? )
<brobostigon> knightwise: yes, it works very well, i have first gen paperwhite.
<knightwise> Is it very locked-in brobostigon  ?
<brobostigon> locked in?
<knightwise> I have a kobo at the moment and i'm pretty pleased with it , but i'm looking for something that just works when i turn it on
<knightwise> My kobo crapped out on my by resetting itself when i was in france this weekend
<knightwise> i needed to get online to get through the initial startup process (very annoying).
<knightwise> so it requires that i sign in and stuff like that , before i can use it.
<brobostigon> yes, it certainly 'just works'
<knightwise> so just power it on and shove some mobi's on it and you're good to go ?
<brobostigon> i have not tried mobi's on mine yet, pdf's work well, with a few formatting issues.
<ali1234> is it worth buying a new e-reader when i can get like a kindle 3 on ebay for Â£10?
<DJones> knightwise: I had a kobo for a few years, but eventually decided to just use my tablet as an ebook reader
<knightwise> DJones: tried doing the same thing but reading on my ipad for a longer period gives me massive migraines
<brobostigon> handy for my D&D DM handbook, :)
<diplo> I have the kindlewhite knightwise, love it, use Caliber to transfer everything, never have wifi on :)
<DJones> knightwise: I've not had that problem thankfully, mostly read white text on black background, the only issue can be reading in bright sunshine on a tablet
<knightwise> yeah , reflection is a bitch
<knightwise> (glare)
<foobarry> i have a kobo, but its a faff to strip drm from amazon books
<foobarry> should have paid the extra tenner to get a kindle
<DJones> Ended up giving my kobo to my dad after his had an accident after being left out in 45C+ temperatures in full sun, the eink was never the same again
<knightwise> foobarry: i hate teh fact my kobo is "sponsored" with software from the online reseller (bol.com-
<knightwise> + the screen quality is not THAT awesome (I have a kobo Aura)
<foobarry> i discovered the key to cheap console gaming
<knightwise> foobarry: which is .... ?
<knightwise> Hurmph : No chance in hell I can get the new kindle paperwhite in Belgium
<knightwise> looks like i'll have to drive out to Germany to get one
<foobarry> knightwise: i ignored the console scene for 10 yrs
<foobarry> then bought an xbox360 for Â£25
<foobarry> and games are Â£4 in cex :D
<foobarry> playing skyrim for the first time
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the new consoles had no resale of games?
<foobarry> whats "new"?
<foobarry> xbox360 is last gen
<zmoylan-pi> or is that only from xboxone onwards
<foobarry> skyrim is played offline
<foobarry> there's loads of bargain games for pennies since every kid owned it
<diplo> zmoylan-pi: Also you can play some 360 games on Xbox One, they've been backporting it or something
<diplo> foobarry: I do the same, buy lots of games for Â£4, some are still stupidly expensive though
<foobarry> GTA V is Â£9 i think
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the 1.99 and 2.99 games from the 80s which i could buy 1 per week on pocket money
<diplo> That's basically the equivalent of me taking the kids to Game and buying second hand games now :)
<foobarry> i'll be a while on skyrim but i need a footy game
<foobarry> and a fun car game (burnout paradise?)
<diplo> Burnout is great unless your kids play it!
<diplo> My youngest decided a "new game" would be better than "load game"
<diplo> lost everything :P
<foobarry> aww
<diplo> We all have seperate profiles since then
<foobarry> my son copied over all mario64ds save games . my wife nearly cried
<foobarry> serious xbox overheating issues though
<diplo> White one ?
<foobarry> 250gb slim black one
<foobarry> lain flat it overheats
<foobarry> on side (tall mode) it seems ok
<foobarry> althugh i reduced to 720p and turned off wifi in case that was causing issue
<diplo> Bit of compressed air works a treat too, mine was full of dust when i bought it
<zmoylan-pi> i always worry about removing dust from working systems as i have seen 1-2 systems die from the process... must have been load bearing dust... :-)
<foobarry> heh
<zmoylan-pi> and if you have the device on carpet raising it an inch or two with a book removes it's intake vents from sucking carpet
<zmoylan-pi> the number of times i have seen devices doing their best hoover imprssions till they die...
<knightwise> ah :) Found the amazon Kindle paperwhite in Maastricht.
<knightwise> 124 euros is about the same price as in .de
<knightwise> still .. if i count the price of a parking ticket ...
<foobarry> i don't have carpets :)
<foobarry> knightwise: new kindle voyager coming soon?
<knightwise> yeah , but its a tad more expensive isn't it ?
<knightwise> the only thing you get is adaptive light sensors and a push button
<knightwise> but does the voyage also have the paperwhite option ?
<knightwise> apparently it does
<diplo> So glad I bought the paperwhite, I was falling asleep with the light on a lot, the light would then wake me up 2-3am :/
<diddledan> received a leaflet from the government today about why they think we're better-off staying in the EU
<diddledan> I personally think there should be a three-way decision: 1) leave, 2) use DC's new deal and stay, 3) use the old deal and stay
 * brobostigon got that leaflet too.
<popey> Â£9M well spent don't you think?
<zmoylan-pi> better than spending it on military...
<foobarry> i didn't get the leaflet
<bashrc> I am undecided on the EU
<bashrc> I tend to think "a plague on all your giant institutions"
<zmoylan-pi> but the eu is annoying cameron so it's got that going for it...
<zmoylan-pi> and the daily mail hates it so it must be good...
<bashrc> yes, that's my thinking. Look what the nazis are wanting and then vote the opposite
<zmoylan-pi> and then there's the words of humphrey appleby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: lmao, that's an awesome clip
<zmoylan-pi> pretty much all of yes minister is excellent
<diddledan> yes, minister was a great show
<foobarry> the EU vote i predict will be quite high to stay
<foobarry> above 60%
<zmoylan-pi> what was the % who turned out to vote for last referendum in england/wales?
<diddledan> I don't think scotland should be able to vote because they're insisting they don't want to be british :-p
<diddledan> obviously that's a troll
<diddledan> I also think the scottish referendum was invalid because england and wales didn't get a choice
<diddledan> while scotland was voting "we want to go it alone" vs "greater together", england and wales should have been voting between "let them stay if they want" vs "kick the dissenters out!"
<diddledan> (still trolling!)
<popey> !politics
<lubotu3`> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<popey> :)
<diddledan> gah
<popey> (not trolling)
<popey> :)
<popey> j/k tho
<zmoylan-pi> next up... systemd... :-P
<diddledan> :-p
<popey> emacs!
<diddledan> oh god, that's the ultimate political discussion
<diddledan> vi!
 * zmoylan-pi starts selling pitchforks...
<diddledan> flaming ones?
<zmoylan-pi> only in winter
<zmoylan-pi> otherwise it cuts into my torches franchise
<diddledan> upsell those via a multibuy
<zmoylan-pi> buy 2 get 1 free
<diddledan> bog off
<diddledan> no, wait, that should be bogof
<ali1234> i think they should have a separate referendum in england, wales, scotland, ni. and if only one country picks leave, that country instead gets kicked out of the UK
<ali1234> (or rather also)
<zmoylan-pi> i prefer thunderdome... sturgeon v cameron in hand to hand... my money is on sturgeon...
<sebsebseb> anyone here
<sebsebseb> ?
<daftykins> yep
<sebsebseb> daftykins: ok :)
<sebsebseb> daftykins: well then uhmm
<sebsebseb> daftykins: What do you think of this? https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-win-intel-z8550-win-10-os-game-console#/  yes it could actsually run Linux as well.  I guess it's a bit like that old Open Pandora project a Linux based one.
<daftykins> terrible idea
<sebsebseb> terrible idea why?
<sebsebseb> daftykins: apparantly the Windows 10 version would be free since it's for a small enough device.  however this is also from China :d, but there's no web cam he h
<sebsebseb> to spy on
<daftykins> super niche, relies on external hardware running to be of any use
<sebsebseb> what do you mean it relys on external hardware to be of any use?
<daftykins> typical failtastic indiegogo fundraiser :D
<sebsebseb> daftykins: it's not going to fail based on fudning it's already funded
<sebsebseb> seems certain people aren't so keen on wehre buttons are though on the keyboard etc, going by the comments
<daftykins> ah i didn't even read that closely :D that's a shame then, more electronics into landfill / as door stops
<popey> that looks familiar
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah like the Open Pandora what I linked to?
<sebsebseb> I had seen something like that before, yep the Open Pandora
<popey> no, i know the open pandora
<sebsebseb> what I linked to looked familer ?
<popey> i thought I'd seen another portable windows device recently
<popey> maybe it was that one
<sebsebseb> popey: probably, they also got there thing for Android gaming, with more space going on there at the moment
<sebsebseb> seems like a nice idea, but it's pricey
<sebsebseb> the one I linked to the other one not as much
<popey> It's certainly a professionally made campaign
<popey> be interesting if they deliver
<sebsebseb> I think they will deliver
<sebsebseb> seems' its also a few guys behind that one or so, instead of just one or two as well
<popey> I'm interested in a portable device for playing old games
<sebsebseb> I thinik it's like a normal PC, but just small, and with game controlelrs in there to
<popey> tempted to make one out of a pi zero or pi 3
<sebsebseb> popey: I like small...
<sebsebseb> a small PC with a screen etc,  would be nice
<popey> I have a picade
<popey> want to replicate that in a small form factor
<popey> picade is a bit clumsy to cart around :)
<sebsebseb> popey: daftykins the also doing this one: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-xd-limited-edition-with-memory-of-128gb#/
<sebsebseb> I don't think that one will reach there goal, since they hve already sold those with smaller space before, but that's ok it's on flexible funding
<popey> the windows one could at least run steam and stream games from a proper computer
<popey> as it could if it ran linux of course
<sebsebseb> popey: for old gaming this looks like could be inteersing: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega-plus-console#/  campain over but could still buy the one that will  be sold retail
<popey> but being x86 cpu makes it more flexible than an arm SoC
<popey> yeah, resisted that
<popey> want something more generic
<sebsebseb> popey: oh you nearly funded the sinclaire ?
<popey> no
<popey> i looked but resisted
<sebsebseb> popey: the WIndows on probabably can run Linux to, going by the comments I read, seems's it's got a UEIF bios etc to so
<sebsebseb> a few people had mentioend about Linux in comments
<popey> did you see that gameboy mod?
<sebsebseb> nope?
<popey> http://imgur.com/a/shoci
<popey> thats not the best one
 * sebsebseb wants more money to buy a load more interesting t ech heh, but can sort of get by over time and get the kind of things wanted anyway
<sebsebseb> popey: they pay you good at Canonical, you seem to crowd fund a lot :d and you got a family
<popey> hah
<daftykins> lol
<popey> i don't crowdfund a lot
<popey> and mostly not expensive stuff
<sebsebseb> well I think daftykins and me saw a spread sheet the other week :d
<popey> yeah
<daftykins> hey leave me out of this one!
<popey> its public
<popey> intentionally so
<daftykins> i have no knowledge of this talk
<sebsebseb> daftykins: h eh
<sebsebseb> popey: yeah it's annoying isn't it,  the good tech the inersting tech is usaully these days well let's say about 200 pounds at least
<m0nkey_> This is pretty darn sweet.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEDrMriKsFM&feature=youtu.be
<popey> Got a mycroft on the way soon
<popey> upgraded to a devkit
<sebsebseb> what's mycroft?
<popey> https://mycroft.ai/
<sebsebseb> Adriono boys should be coming soon for me to yeah
<daftykins> arduino?
<popey> oooh, yeah, looking forward to Arduboy
<sebsebseb> then the pocket chip I should finally get and normal chip an that next month to
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yep Arduino
<sebsebseb> uh
<sebsebseb> uh
<sebsebseb> I emeant
<sebsebseb> Arduboy yeah
<popey> daftykins: https://www.arduboy.com/
<daftykins> hard to tell when something isn't yet another fork these days ;)
<sebsebseb> then I got those pre orderdd Tetris cards some time this Spring to I guess,  based on Arudboy
<popey> The mycroft is gonna be odd. It's using my voice :)
<sebsebseb> popey: is that your voice in the video?
<diddledan> popey: oh, can we all get a popey-croft?
<popey> sebsebseb: in one of the videos, yeah
<popey> diddledan: ya
<diddledan> \o/
<sebsebseb> popey: which I just seen
<sebsebseb> one
<sebsebseb> popey: just seen the see mycroft in ation video
<daftykins> maybe you should hold off the fundraisers and treat yourself to a nice new keyboard, sebsebseb ;)
<popey> hah
<popey> man alive, mame takes an age to build on arm
<popey> took ages on a pi, now taking ages in a chroot on i7 4 cores flat out
<popey> my poor laptop
<diddledan> dicky stallman has written on the zfs issue: https://www.fsf.org/licensing/zfs-and-linux
<sebsebseb> daftykins: what my multiple lines has nothing to do with my keyboard :) , if that's what you meant and I'll do that on pretty much any keyboard
<daftykins> mobile i7s mmm
<daftykins> speaking of! https://www.dropbox.com/s/5x28ianwc89ltbz/IMG_20160411_174611.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> \o/
<daftykins> sadly nothing else bar a damaged case which is being returned has shown up so far :P
<diddledan> see, what I don't understand is what's the difference between a kernel module which is distributed separate from the kernel which interacts with the kernel via defined apis (which dicky insists is a derivative of the kernel) and a program which likewise interacts with the kernel via defined apis (which dicky doesn't insist is a derivative)
<popey> I should probably play with zfs at some point
<diddledan> daftykins: \o/
<daftykins> with zeez FS you are really spoiling us
<sebsebseb> bye
<sebsebseb> bye
<m0nkey_> ZFS is awesome
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-12
<mappps> hi all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> mornin' sir
<ali1234> diddledan "a kernel module which is distributed separate from the kernel which interacts with the kernel via defined apis" - this does not exist, there is no defined API for kernel modules
<diddledan> then how do they talk to the kernel?
<ali1234> with an unstable (undefined) ABI
<ali1234> and the difference between your two examples is that the linux licence actually has a specific exception for the latter
<diddledan> oic
<ali1234> http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/gpl_modules.html
<ali1234> linus calls it a "clarification"
<ali1234> but whatever
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> morning all
<foobarry> my xbox still keeps locking up few times in the first hour
<foobarry> then i get an hour and half of uninterrupted gameplay until bedtime
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Equal Pay Day! ð
<popey> foobarry: overheating?
<foobarry> popey: i think so - https://goo.gl/photos/gYXaY62vjx3ivyEbA
<foobarry> often get this type of freeze
<foobarry> i have it positioned vertically
<popey> video corruption also looks like overheating or the gpu thermal paste going bad
<foobarry> i'm gonna open it up to inspect for dust, although the fans seem to spin
<foobarry> person i bought it off must have experienced this too but didn't tell me :S
<popey> seems like a reasonable conclusion
<foobarry> also my far cry 3 disk from cex is scratched and wont play or install :(
 * foobarry cry
<zmoylan-pi> except for the part were it becomes more reliable after a time.  over heating would be it works fine at first and then fails...
<zmoylan-pi> ...unless there is some part that is expanding/warming up with the heat and then works, a fan or a heat sink
<popey> I bought and second hand original xbox 360 some years ago. Wifey bought me a kinect. plugged it in and it fragged the xbox
<popey> completely irreversably broke the xbox
<popey> phoned microsoft, they said it was known and there was a repair/replace programme but that date had passed
<zmoylan-pi> that was... nice of them
<foobarry> heh
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgLzJm83bZ8 this is what I'm thinking cause everyone wins when everything is equal :)
<foobarry> however during the time i have moved it a few times
<foobarry> i am plugged direct into wall socket, and last night had it next to the open window
<foobarry> but 2 nights in a row the freezes are more common in first hour then not at all
<foobarry> the power supply brick is not getting hot
<zmoylan-pi> the really good thing about consoles is that there are so many of them that you could try searching for specific symptoms.  crashing for first hour etc.
<zmoylan-pi> have you recently turned off the heating as summer... approaches... room it's in colder than previously?
<foobarry> i only just acquired the console
<foobarry> but its in a cool room
<foobarry> the hard drive has been formatted and checked
<zmoylan-pi> i can see mapps's gaff from here... :-) https://twitter.com/Astro_Jeff/status/719565672267784192/photo/1
<mapps> haha
<mapps> my little palace;)
<diddledan> *yawn*
<diddledan> I need sleep
<diddledan> stayed up all last night coding on my website
<diddledan> tis looking nicely purdy now :-)
<diddledan> not mobile-optimised yet tho
<zmoylan-pi> especially now that you added the animated under construction gifs... :-P
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> you mean rows of these? http://www.11points.com/images/animatedgifs/underconstruction.gif
<zmoylan-pi> a web site wasn't a real site till it had a few of those... :-)
<Wobbo> Hi, I am wondering if anyone knows how the change app "BirdFont" default setting font. Now I can't read anything, see the url: http://oi67.tinypic.com/1621wxt.jpg
<Wobbo> Or, is there any other way to get 2 fonts in one font. The problem is that i want the Ubuntu font, it is great! But,... is has no Arabic. So, I have found a nice one. So, how do I get them in one so it can be used on my website.
<Wobbo> The reason by i want them together is that the Arabic text contains "normal" numbers, and the numbers from the Arabic fonts are terrible. And stuff like a person name in a Arabic sentence will look weird.
<Wobbo> I hope someone can help me. :'(  :D
<davmor2> Wobbo: you might be better off asking on #ubuntu if someone here is unable to help, that channel is the general help channel for ubuntu
<davmor2> But if it is just for a website I think you can set the font as you go in tags
<Wobbo> Well, I only have Ubuntu, and "BirdFont" is in the ubuntu software list.
<Wobbo> The problem is that the designer necessarily want those two fonts.
<sebsebseb> 1 2 3 4
<sebsebseb> 5 6 7 8 9 10
<diddledan> 7 minutes till facebook's f8 keynote: https://www.fbf8.com/
<bashrc> is zuck going to proclaim universal enslavement?
<bashrc> "you're all in my database now"
<zmoylan-pi> facebook henceforth will have a 100 character limit to beat twitter...
<sebsebseb> diddledan: oh what's that?
<bashrc> battle of the character limits
<diddledan> sebsebseb: facebook developer conference
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: I'll injest your data!
<sebsebseb> diddledan: hmm zuckerburg will be talking in a few minutes?
<bashrc> why not go up to 101 though?
<diddledan> bashrc: too
<bashrc> one longer
<diddledan> in soviet russia, data injests you
<zmoylan-pi> all facebook passwords will be reset to whatever your favourite cheese is. they have learned this from all the photos that have been uploaded...
<sebsebseb> diddledan: looks like I am watching that now then live stremae
 * diddledan refrains from mentioning the perverted response to that
<sebsebseb> diddledan: your fault
<sebsebseb> diddledan: I don't even ike Facebook
<diddledan> \o/
<sebsebseb> so they got enough money to have a like a proper host
<sebsebseb> h eh
<diddledan> interesting the way they're doing it like a news broadcast
<sebsebseb> diddledan: indeed
<sebsebseb> diddledan: but that's what money gets them aye?
<diddledan> are we going to leverage our shared synergies to capitalise on market penetration?
<diddledan> they killed his voice
<diddledan> oh that's my speaker system
<sebsebseb> diddledan: whos?
<sebsebseb> yeah it's fine for me
<diddledan> my speakers have a powersave mode and it decided to turn itself off
<zmoylan-pi> it's a google plot...
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: yeah they want him using Google +
<diddledan> interviews with randoms is always painful
<sebsebseb> diddledan: tehy aren't completly random?
<bashrc> pseudo random
<diddledan> still painful
<sebsebseb> a few Africans so far
<diddledan> PRNG
<sebsebseb> shame they aren't working on open source?
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> OSS FTW
 * diddledan shoves his open source in your face
<sebsebseb> indeed
<sebsebseb> indeed OSS FTW
 * sebsebseb smacks diddledan around with Ubuntu on WIndows 10
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu for bash that is
<davmor2> diddledan: you shouldn't do that with open soars they might be infected
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> sores*
<zmoylan-pi> only windows gets viruses...
<davmor2> diddledan: it was 33/33/33
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: STIs
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: ubuntu on windows you have to be more careful now ;)
<diddledan> you always need to wear a raincoat
<diddledan> it's teh zuck!
<sebsebseb> diddledan: yep your hero
<sebsebseb> after Steve Ballmer
<diddledan> no, satya nadella
<sebsebseb> diddledan: yeah, but you prefer the old one
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhh_GeBPOhs
<sebsebseb> whats that link?
<diddledan> ooh, politicals
<sebsebseb> yeah
<diddledan> he's got better at his presentations
<diddledan> he was really awkward when FaceBook first started
<sebsebseb> diddledan: I have never seen him speak bbefore
<sebsebseb> diddledan: public speaking is awesome, I do some of that :)
<sebsebseb> April 5th 1985 his brthday? or just steps
<sebsebseb> diddledan: stuff theya re open sourceing
<sebsebseb> diddledan: only stuff that dons't matter much
<diddledan> dammit, my speakers just turned off again
<sebsebseb> diddledan: oh that sucks
<sebsebseb> my sound just went down aearlier
<sebsebseb> when II reid to volume
<diddledan> I've turned the volume up a bit
<sebsebseb> I can't get up volume stuff at hte moment
<sebsebseb> Unity uh
<sebsebseb> diddledan: are you going to watch this for a few hours now :d
<diddledan> yup
<sebsebseb> really?
<sebsebseb> why?
<diddledan> because I'm a developer
<sebsebseb> for Facebook?
<diddledan> I'm a webdev, and Facebook is a large requirement for clients to interface with
<sebsebseb> oh
<diddledan> everyone's working on AI these days
<diddledan> everyone big I mean - facebook, microsoft, googlie, and apple
<diddledan> and amazon too
<sebsebseb> conecting sites to Facebook stuff?
<zmoylan-pi> have people not learned from a 100 years of sci fi...
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: you mean having a big evil corporation?
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: in control of too much
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: aye, I for one welcome our new robot overlords
<diddledan> Facebook built a plane
<sebsebseb> yeah seems so
<diddledan> they're doing statellites too
<sebsebseb> yep to spy on you
<sebsebseb> in particular
<sebsebseb> hmm so Facebook is more than just a s tupid soical netowrking si social networking site now
<zmoylan-pi> gotta expand or you die
<diddledan> I might die from expansion
<sebsebseb> Google sure  did
<sebsebseb> look at Google now
<zmoylan-pi> google should buy yahoo and shut it down six months later.  they really know how to shut down an acquisition... :-)
<sebsebseb> who did Google shut down already?
<diddledan> the latest one was a ompany that nest bought just before google bought nest
<sebsebseb> oh lucky them
<sebsebseb> gear v r and free samsung phone
<diddledan> no announcements there
<sebsebseb> what as in you knew about all that
<sebsebseb> already?
<diddledan> there wasn't really any products announced I mean
<diddledan> just telling us about the long-term plan rather than product announcements
<zmoylan-pi> does the future involve a volcano and a white cat?
<sebsebseb> account kit hmm
<sebsebseb> whatever that is
<sebsebseb> diddledan: are you stil watching?
<diddledan> yup
<sebsebseb> diddledan: you want some free basics :d
<diddledan> nope
<zmoylan-pi> you'd just have to sell your soul to zuck
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: they want to take over the owrld
<sebsebseb> are you watching?
<sebsebseb> world above
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: but then he'd be a soulless muppet like you ;)
<zmoylan-pi> i am not soulless...
<zmoylan-pi> i'm a hoopy frood who knows were my towel is...
<davmor2> if you sold your soul you must be :D
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: You're towel has been washed on a boil wash though, its now a flannel
<zmoylan-pi> i use proper steel wool towel... combat ready... :-)
 * zmoylan-pi watches darmok and jalad at tanagra...
<sebsebseb> whats on that now
<sebsebseb> is intesting
<sebsebseb> diddledan: you still watching?
<sebsebseb> diddledan: that's better all off now ;) as of a little while ago, oh and I would have to acstaully log into Facebook to continue watching it seems
<terran> hello?
<sebsebseb> terran: hi
<terran> stupid question, but can someone tell me how to get a desktop terminal command app to run multiple commands?
<terran> like, in series
<Myrtti> depends if you want it to stop if any of the chain fails
<terran> No, I don't mind
<terran> it is only 3 commands
<terran> to cd, build, and mono . A shortcut for a program I want
<terran> just dont know how to get the app to run more than one command
<Myrtti> youA; B    Run A and then B, regardless of success of A
<Myrtti> A && B  Run B if A succeeded
<Myrtti> A || B  Run B if A failed
<Myrtti> so pick between ;, && and ||
<Myrtti> I personally prefer &&
<terran> I get "there was an error launching the app"
<terran> does it work with 3?
<terran> wait, do I clude all commands after "Exex=" or make secondary "exec="'s with the &&'s?
<Myrtti> I'd use ; then
<Emersont1> Hi
<bittin> got a shirt from facebook today: http://imgur.com/a/6MZuP
<zmoylan-pi> your first suspicion was when it asked you to sign in... :-P
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: it didn't for key note
<sebsebseb> zmoylan-pi: but after when re loading etc it did
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> \o
 * sebsebseb feels a bit disapoinated as a techi with someone from his family
<daftykins> what did they do?
<sebsebseb> daftykins: lose their phone about three weeks ago, but here's the thing as far as I know they also haven't really gone looking around for it properly or at all really
<sebsebseb> unlike what we would do
<sebsebseb> so bought a new phone uisng some Tesco phones for cheap recently though instead.  in a way could do with a slight upgrade, but not really was only using it for calls and texsta a 2011 phone would stil be fine for that
<sebsebseb> daftykins: it's just a item like a microwave I guess, something goes wrong buy a new one
<sebsebseb> where as for people like us it would be more like, ah my phone is gone with my data and my uh ah
<sebsebseb> that phone might have been lost in a public place to I don't know
<sebsebseb> don't think any bad data on it
<daftykins> i'm often saddened by the lack of care for electronics in the first instance :)
<daftykins> my items tend to go obsolete, they don't get damaged :D
<sebsebseb> popey: apparnatly no convergence for the Mx 4 at all or oficaly via Canonical, just read something a lilttle while ago on omgubuntu
<sebsebseb> daftykins: the lack of care for eletronics in the first place uhmm yeah I seen that before from a much younger little brother too, taking apart his phone into bits, and then throwing it into the bin eventually
<sebsebseb> daftykins: since there were a few issues with the Android implemntation from that make or whatever it was
<sebsebseb> it was a cheap phone that one, but hmm
<sebsebseb> daftykins: I intend to keep the devices I have untill I di e or something like that
<sebsebseb> not reccyle a phone since it's three years old or something or bin it, like a lot of people
<sebsebseb> daftykins: only device I have properly damaged was the ipad, and some old lap top or two that weren't fully mine anyway
<sebsebseb> the computers when a kid or teenager actsaully
<sebsebseb> the ipad since a hard titled floor and distracting dogs
<sebsebseb> for the main damage
<sebsebseb> daftykins: its sad really the society we have,  consumerism
<daftykins> *nod*
<sebsebseb> daftykins: things get or new, get a new one
<sebsebseb> no I buy new devices but with good reason :)
<sebsebseb> techi reasons :)
<sebsebseb> and then as I said I intend to keep those devices for many many many eyars as well so
<sebsebseb> I want to look back at say 2015 2016 in say 10 years and be lilke ah yes I bought duh and duh then
<sebsebseb> daftykins: it's a bit rubbish the idea a phone only is meant to last tsay about two years anyway, then buy a new one on a contract or whatever
<daftykins> that's what is really sad about this smartphone time we live in, so many just getting abandoned for OS support and due to high-profile security woes, essentially becoming unsafe to use
<sebsebseb> security woes
<sebsebseb> the manufactuer not supporting it anymore you mean?
<daftykins> well for example android has had many issues where even a malformed MMS (not that i've met anyone that uses that :D ) can take over a device
<sebsebseb> daftykins: looks like I'll look at her new phone later but hm
<sebsebseb> what's the MMS?
<daftykins> picture messaging
<sebsebseb> and yes if there is a certain bug in Android or an implemntatoin,  the phone can end up in the bin, since something didn't quite work right, and the owener of the device is to non technical to know why etc
<sebsebseb> so the blame Android or the manufacture or both etc
<daftykins> bit of both really, the manufacturers eventually abandon devices since naturally times move on
<sebsebseb> but  really any  of todays smart phones should probably be fine as a working device for well five or more years really
<daftykins> you'd hope so, i tend to find folks have them grinding to a halt far sooner though
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yeah they want people buying the latest
<sebsebseb> and a lot of manufactures release a new phone at least once a year
<daftykins> one client of mine has ditched a relatively recent Samsung Galaxy S5 because it 'was slow to open contacts'
<sebsebseb> daftykins: uh that's a bit silly
<daftykins> didn't even ask about sorting it, he went out and bought a Microsoft phone :(
<sebsebseb> oh dear
<sebsebseb> yeah I am not sure what my Mum has bought yet
<sebsebseb> probably  some Samsung phone or something it was a big Tesco
<sebsebseb> some sort of cheap ANdroid phone for 60 pounds
<daftykins> ouch :)
<sebsebseb> well I assume it was Android!
<daftykins> sounds quite disposable
<daftykins> back shortly anywho, it's Patch Tuesday in Microsoft land
<sebsebseb> daftykins: well her last one was from a Tesco and it was a Huwaii and it lasted fine the last few years untill recently when it's lost hmm
<sebsebseb> daftykins: ha ha ha of course your a WIndows tech guy etc, you got to keep up to date with that then?
<m0nkey_> Evening
<daftykins> no different than any OS patching
<daftykins> i'm actually typing from ubuntu server though, so i have regular use and exposure to the 'big 3'
<Azelphur> ali1234: You know about USB and things, I had a pretty cool idea wonder what you'd think of it. Reckon I could get some pi-like board with USB3, use USB gadget to emulate a mass storage device, and have the storage backed by a NAS/SMB share?
<Azelphur> So for hardware that is only expandable by USB drives (eg xboxes, DVRs, ...) I could expand their storage using a NAS with a raid array
<daftykins> you'd be better off buying a WD enclosure that takes two disks (RAID-able) and has a USB connection
<daftykins> http://randomnerds.com/psn-download-speed-too-slow-get-a-static-ip-address/ <-- a friend found this, it's the most cringeworthy piece of tech writing i think i've ever seen
<Azelphur> daftykins: but I already have a NAS with 12 drive bays and a 4x5TB RAID5 array
<daftykins> ok, don't think that's going to be easy if even possible
<daftykins> too many issues i can see
<Azelphur> daftykins: ack, terrible
<daftykins> also, Pi IO is terrible :)
<Azelphur> daftykins: I dunno, I spotted this page, it actually makes it look really simple: http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/file_storage.html
<Azelphur> yea, hence pi-like board with USB3 rather than the pi itself
<daftykins> oh ok i sort of read it as an accessory to provide that USB 3.0
<daftykins> USB mass storage is already quite redundant for more modern devices, i've been buying enclosures with UASP support (USB Attached SCSI Protocol) which lets devices make use of e.g. SSDs or just simply make faster use of mechanical disks without the never-designed-for-this-type-of-use hangups of mass storage
<daftykins> not that UASP will help when it's not a real disk behind it you'd make use of - due to the abstraction plan
<daftykins> bbs
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, dunno it's interesting as I say, in theory one could set up a USB gadget like that, and just have the path be a mounted network share, then you have "unlimited" expandable storage for the price of a pi-like board
<daftykins> ignoring any device addressing limitations
<daftykins> just restarting brb
<velusunivers-sys> popey, you awake and about?
<popey> yup
<velusunivers-sys> any news on ogg camp?
<popey> no. various people are discussing it, but no decisions
<velusunivers-sys> im on the list but not hearing anything
<popey> you know what i know then
<velusunivers-sys> ok
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-13
<ali1234> Azelphur: that's pretty easy to do. you just need a kernel with gether and an nfs share for root
<mapps> hi all
<knightwise> mornin mapps
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> on the last ep of 11.22.63
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> someone just pointed out to me that youtube is now the second most popular website in the world according to alexa, pushing facebook down into third place
<brobostigon> google first presumably?
<ali1234> yeah
<brobostigon> not a surprise.
<ali1234> it,s been google, facebook, youtube since about 2009
<brobostigon> it might have been popey.com
<knightwise> Probably popey.com
 * brobostigon just said that.
<knightwise> brobostigon is always right :p
<brobostigon> my partner is always right, i am not.
 * knightwise is deepdiving into kindle knowledge
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Scrabble Day! ð
<knightwise> hey James
<knightwise> Scrabbleday is not a word :p
<JamesTait> Depends which dictionary you use, knightwise. ð
<daftykins> yay for new PC bits \o/
<daftykins> except case
<zmoylan-1i> nail it to the wall as an art installation...
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/99kp0ykwzdj48ez/AABs_DXJAJvNCwdp4OaTTAxMa?dl=0 :D
<zmoylan-pi> all new and shiny...
<daftykins> what's great is i got all the bits, then went to get the latest BIOS for the motherboard... oh nice Asus website is down for maintenance!
<zmoylan-pi> maintenance... or wonky hardware...
<daftykins> >:D
<sebsebseb> popey: morning, two questions for you the Ubuntu Phone expert :d  after reading two things on omgubuntu that is
<sebsebseb> or is it just one well anhyway
<sebsebseb> popey: were there even any plans to bring convergence to the MX4 no I guess not quite?
 * sebsebseb really likes his MX4 with Ubuntu on it,  slight ashame got sent the wrong colojur, but ok with silver now
<sebsebseb> altough it looks like a lot of other peoples phones in that colour, instead of the gold thing or whatever
<sebsebseb> popey: I guess one question, one comment.  nice snaps in 16.04 and deb packages
<popey> sebsebseb: i think they hoped to
<popey> \o/ put the dehydrator on with slices of apples covered in cinnamon
<popey> house is gonna smell yummy soon
<diddledan> I finally worked on my own site to make it less fugly :-p https://www.bowlhat.net
<diddledan> I'm liking my logo now
<diddledan> popey: you getting tasty snacks?
<popey> ya
<diddledan> oh previous line! silly me
<diddledan> apple + cinnamon = yummy
<daftykins> there's a man! in the corner!
<diddledan> daftykins: that's me
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i feel like you should've been wearing said hat
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> yeah I need to invest in a proper bowler hat and get a new photo
<daftykins> glad to help! 8D
<popey> I know a few brits who wear bowler hats.
<popey> Without exceptions, they look like tools.
<popey> FYI :)
<diddledan> lmao
<diddledan> popey: are you suggesting that I'm not tool-like already?
<diddledan> if so thank you :-p
<popey> yw
<daftykins> i still feel sad about losing shauno to the Apple teasing :(
<zmoylan-pi> sorry...
<daftykins> yeah that big mean zmoylan-pi
<daftykins> ;D
<popey> losing wat to the wat
<daftykins> shauno left the channel after we teased Apple products too much
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think we were teasing, more that he had a crappy day and rage quit
<popey> ah.
<daftykins> totally both!
<diddledan> he holds a grudge does that one - he did the same in another channel I used to frequent
<popey> #grudge-holders ?
<zmoylan-pi> #downwiththissortofthing
<diddledan> #carefulnow
<daftykins> diddledan had to leave after he no longer bore a grudge to man nor beast
<popey> #slashquit
<diddledan> #hashtag
<diddledan> wait, what?
<zmoylan-pi> shouldn't that be ##hashtag
<foobarry> maybe he's on holiday and winding you guys up
<diddledan> ## channels confuse me - I'm sat in both #wordpress and ##wordpress for example
<foobarry> eww
<diddledan> foobarry: bloomin long holiday
<foobarry> oh when was it?
<zmoylan-pi> but not ###wordpress... not a lot of wordpress in that...
<diddledan> must be near a year now?
<foobarry> wow
<foobarry> feel bad for not noticing
<zmoylan-pi> he was a night owl, wasn't he?
<diddledan> yup
<foobarry> #gingers
<foobarry> woops
<zmoylan-pi> were the calm moderate users hang out... :-P
<diddledan> and you!
<ali1234> and me
<zmoylan-pi> dems fighting words... :-)
<daftykins> me, him, ali1234 diddledan and zmoylan-pi could do a Macbeth parody of late night "when shall we 5 meet again?"
<daftykins> yay got the count right ;)
<zmoylan-pi> when apple release a cheap product? :-P
<foobarry> and mapps runs in after accidentally betting his house in the casino
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> some day mapps will bet his kidney...
<diddledan> irccloud is being laggy
<foobarry> the working one
<foobarry> this channel hasn't been remotely ubuntu in years
<zmoylan-pi> his liver of course isn't worth an apple eula...
<sebsebseb> popey: apparnatly the MX4 hardware isn't really good enough  or has issues for convergence
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: this is why we can't have nice users, y'meanie!
<ali1234> shauno is still on freenode, i was talking to him the other day
<daftykins> i PM'd once, to no avail
<daftykins> he could've easily missed it though
<zmoylan-pi> he did pop back in here a few months back didn't he?
<diddledan> yeah a short one-day thing, zmoylan-pi
<daftykins> :(
<foobarry> also that other fella who left canonical
<foobarry> i liked him
<diddledan> jono?
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> he left irc because he left his employer
<foobarry> keep going
<diddledan> oh well that's silly
<foobarry> my brain is failing me
<popey> gord
<foobarry> +1
<foobarry> the allot
<popey> ya
<popey> he now works for microsoft
<popey> thanks to the xamarin buy-out
<foobarry> heh
<popey> along with about 4 other ex-canonical people
<foobarry> hangs out in #linux-lovers
<popey> I miss gord
<popey> that's a thing?
<foobarry> looks at canonical jobs
<popey> oh
<foobarry> most canonical jobs are juju and openstack atm
<sebsebseb> popey: who now works for Microsoft?
<popey> sebsebseb: some ex-canonical people
<popey> foobarry: https://ldd.tbe.taleo.net/ldd03/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=1104
<sebsebseb> not jono though
<popey> don't want to move to china?
<popey> no, indeed. i wasn't talking about him
<sebsebseb> who were the exes?
<popey> gord allott, neil patel and david siegel all went to xamarin
<popey> They seem happy there :)
<sebsebseb> might have heard of one of those names before
<sebsebseb> siegel maybe
<sebsebseb> popey: Canonical has your soul now :D and family, so no OGG Camp organising for you this year :d,  I read the site update last night
<popey> Uh
<sebsebseb> ?
<popey> I never organised oggcamp
<zmoylan-pi> this is canonicals plan. to elop the commercial software industry with all these ex canonical employees around... ;-)
<sebsebseb> popey: uh I thought you did, or did you just help with it a bit?
<ali1234> i thought you did as well. wasn't the first one basically in your garden?
<popey> no
<popey> i helped organise the Farnham one
<foobarry> i was at that one
<sebsebseb> oh right ok so only one
<ali1234> oh, getting them mixed up then
<popey> but most have been in liverpool, and one in oxford and wolves
<foobarry> then it moved to the other side of the planet
<sebsebseb> foobarry: over side of planet? heh????
<sebsebseb> other
<popey> Dan/Mark/Tony/Les did most of the work
<foobarry> north of watford innit
<sebsebseb> Dan has been quite ill so makes sense why he doesn't want to organise one for this year
<popey> ali1234: after I saw your project I went looking for pi zero
<popey> you basically can't buy them
<ali1234> they announced a new board revision 12 hours after i ot my prototype boards
<popey> I guess because they were made out of surplus stock anyway
<popey> haha
<sebsebseb> someone quit the orgnaising at the event last time
<sebsebseb> looks like none this year, but maybe next year
<popey> Well, Dan did most of the organising but he's been ill
<popey> so can't do it this year
<sebsebseb> popey: yep as I just put
<ali1234> https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=144165&p=951891#p951891
<foobarry> maybe it will spawn southern and northern smaller versions
<sebsebseb> foobarry: oher events?
<zmoylan-pi> oooh news on pi zero... http://www.recantha.co.uk/blog/?p=14550
<sebsebseb> foobarry: yep we could do with at least on UK open source event, but there only really was ogg camp right?
<popey> new pizero?
<popey> hopefully armv7?
<ali1234> no
<zmoylan-pi> they're starting production up again and adding a feature
<sebsebseb> one above
<popey> bah
<popey> 8?
<ali1234> no!
<ali1234> it will still be 6
<ali1234> it has a new feature, but nobody knows what it is yet
<ali1234> it is probably audio, or (my guess) micro HDMI instead of mini
<zmoylan-pi> a ps/2 port \o/ :-)
<ali1234> cos everyone complained about mini
<ali1234> it won't be header pins, because that would not require a board revision
<popey> wifi?
<zmoylan-pi> a scsi port... :-)
<popey> that would need new chip
<zmoylan-pi> they definitely said not wifi i think
<ali1234> eben said it's not wifi
<popey> ah
<ali1234> that means it won't be bluetooth either cos they are the same chip
<zmoylan-pi> ir
<ali1234> unlikely, i dont think anyone asked for that
<zmoylan-pi> i know. i'm just thinking of ancient ports that i still like... :-)
<ali1234> "To  thank you for your patience, we've taken advantage of the hiatus to add  a (much requested) new feature. I'll leave you all to guess what it is  (it's not WiFi)."
<zmoylan-pi> beaming between palms/psions was so convenient...
<ali1234> actually whatever it needs requires a firmware update so it's not micro HDMI
<ali1234> that might rule out audio too since that's just device tree
<popey> more ram?
<zmoylan-pi> more ram would be good
<zmoylan-pi> but wouldn't need a firmware change i don't think
<ali1234> possibly. they've never done 1GB stacked before though
<diddledan> maybe they're gonna do a dedicated bluetooth chip rather than a shared one?
<ali1234> it would need a firmware update because of reasons
<diddledan> gotta love them reasons
<ali1234> diddledan unlikely because it would cost the same as using the combo
<sebsebseb> by
<diddledan> I do lots of stuff because reasons
<sebsebseb> e
<ali1234> also RF testing etc
<sebsebseb> bye
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan> good point
 * sebsebseb leaves IRC
<ali1234> RAM configuration is done in the firmware due to how the VC sets up the ARM address space
<ali1234> it's really complicated
<diddledan> ooh, maybe it is a ramboost then
<diddledan> can you get 1GB POPs?
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> dont see why not though
<ali1234> depends on the broadcom part
 * zmoylan-pi casts ward evil at mention of broadcom
<diddledan> they have the clout to get broadcom to do custom work these days tho so they might be able to get a new package which exposes a different POP interface allowing for larger piggy-backing RAM volumes?
<zmoylan-pi> they have sold a lot of pi...
<diddledan> that would also lead-way to the pi3 getting a piggy-back in addition to it's reverse-side chip allowing for doule
<diddledan> double
<ali1234> the videocore used int he raspberry pi cannot use more than 1GB so that won't happen
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> that's a shame :-(
<diddledan> I wonder why that is a limitation
<zmoylan-pi> i think the pi 1gb of ram is the pi's biggest bottle neck at the mo
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: yeah
<ali1234> because the videocore uses MIPS-style segmented memory
<zmoylan-pi> a 2gb or 4gb pi would be a full pc for me at this point... :-)
<ali1234> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7747265/why-in-mips-architecture-program-space-divided-into-4-areas
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: yeah that would work for me, too - as a webdev I don't need powerful gfx or cpu - as long as it boots fairly quick and there's enough ram to have multiple applications open I'm happy
<zmoylan-pi> and if i need games i can fire up c64 emulator on my dumbphone... :-)
<ali1234> as a webdev don't you need to run firefox and chrome? and flash and html5 video? raspberry pi sucks at all these things
<diddledan> video would be a requirement
<diddledan> flash less so
<diddledan> nobody does flash these days
<ali1234> fair enough. basically youtube doesn't work very well on the pi
<zmoylan-pi> malware writers... :-P
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: aye
<diddledan> several flash-installer-mimics have targeted the mac recently because they can't figure out how else to get into the OS
<daftykins> cor a motherboard doing the download of a BIOS update for you - what a brave new world
<diddledan> daftykins: :-o
<diddledan> daftykins: don't pull the plug!
<zmoylan-pi> next version will have pics of kittens in the bios to show while you wait... :-)
<diddledan> daftykins: it's erased the BIOS ROM and is flashing direct from the download :-p
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ah no it downloaded cats from imgur instead!
<diddledan> pull the ethernet and you'll get a corrupt flash :-p
<zmoylan-pi> biosKittens(tm)
<daftykins> *POST screen of cat in a PC case*
<diddledan> hopefully guernsytelecom aren't going to blip
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> amusingly it was indeed once called that
<diddledan> GT or GiT for binary types
<daftykins> Cable and Wireless bought it, then a while back a Bahraini guy bought it from them
<diddledan> yey?
<diddledan> all your internets are routed through the UAE
<daftykins> hmm not bad for an open air setup noise wise with the stock intel heatsink and fan setup
<zmoylan-pi> just so you have no idea who owns/fiddles with your wires...
<diddledan> the stock intel heatsink+fan is quite good these days
<diddledan> AMD still haven't got the memo though
<daftykins> i used the one on the core 2 quad back in 2007 as well, they do just dandy :>
<daftykins> just gotta sit and play with the rotating corners to be sure it's in 'stay down' mode
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> I quite like those for ease of install, but you have to be sure your pegs are through the board before you push the plunger
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> i didn't even bother cleaning it up and using my premium arctic silver
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> now i play the waiting game for when new graphics cards are announced, June or Julyish
<zmoylan-pi> and then released in november in time to heat your house... :-)
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> nah i think they'll be out late July, talk is they're only releasing the mid-range first, top end at the end of the year
<daftykins> this is the first time since 2010 that the manufacturing process is being reduced since the old 28nm standard in GPUs, so moving to 16nm or lower will be a huge change in efficiency
<diddledan> when do we get picometers?
<daftykins> doubt that'll happen in our lifetime
<zmoylan-pi> as soon as you give up feet and inches...?
<diddledan> my feet don't smell, so I don't need to get rid of them yet
<daftykins> me and diddledan sorely need our feet to insert into our mouths on regular occasion, eh dan?
<diddledan> heck yeah!
<diddledan> shouldn't that be "diddledan and I" though :-p
<zmoylan-pi> captain pedantic to the rescue...
<diddledan> \o/
<daftykins> talks proper like wot i does
<daftykins> that's one of the subtler nuances of the lingo i never quite understood the need for :(
<zmoylan-pi> dat's not proper
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uviwm78kqd30en/IMG_20160413_134814.jpg?dl=0
<diddledan> thee and me
<daftykins> poor old setup, parts pinched
 * diddledan pinches some parts unseen
<daftykins> i'm informed a new surface pro 4 has arrived at a clients ready for prodding
<diddledan> fondleslab!
<daftykins> can't say i hold much hope of it solving the last ones surprises
<daftykins> diddledan: i've changed my mind, your site pic needs to turn into an HTML5 video of you enacting a cheesy welcome
<daftykins> during which you don the hat!
<daftykins> this is gold.
<diddledan> full-HD
<diddledan> autoplay and autorepeat
<daftykins> yep, auto max volume
<diddledan> several different prompts for video-player installs, too
<diddledan> or. I should do it with JAVA
<diddledan> complete with a rippling water effect
<foobarry> anyone used berkeley DB?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<daftykins> \o howdy
 * diddledan checks what time it is in UGT. yep. good morning.
<diddledan> boiler man says my boiler is 96% efficient
<daftykins> diddledan: did he turn it back on again after? *ba-dum-tish*
 * diddledan sucks-in a sharp breath
<diddledan> ooh that's harsh!
<diddledan> how very dare thee
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what's your fuel type?
<daftykins> i have one o' them gas condensing boilers
<daftykins> the guernsey supply runs on LPG though which pales in comparison to the UK gas supply
<diddledan> gas
<diddledan> that's all I know
<daftykins> ah har
<diddledan> anyone seen this? http://perl11.org/ turns out perl isn't dead
<diddledan> I can't figure out where that leaves the unreleased perl6
<diddledan> I'm wondering if it's gonna go the same way as PHP6
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/hNjX_WX2y8A
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2Nl2D-i8c (NSFW)
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> lol: https://twitter.com/JoeRessington/status/720284913698783232
<diddledan> what's up with freenode right now?
<diddledan> splitters!
<daftykins> it's FOSS
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> foreign online shaky servers?
<diddledan> (I couldn't think of anything more witty)
<diddledan> offline might be better
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> probably a loose cat5 cable somewhere...
<daftykins> 5 yep, telephone spec
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> or someone tripped over a coax network cable somewhere...
<daftykins> some little scamp poked a staple in and ran off
 * daftykins glances at diddledan 
<diddledan> <.<
<diddledan> >.>
<diddledan> -.-
<zmoylan-pi> nailing network cables to wall.  such a beneficial work creation scheme
<diddledan> just reboobed into windas. iTunes really want to sell start warts
<daftykins> you mean it didn't need updating first?
<diddledan> nuppers
<zmoylan-pi> all of windows is trying to update probably...
<daftykins> what irks me a bit about you saying that is Loonix updates more frequently and less consistently :)
<diddledan> wait, do people even use looknocks these days?
<zmoylan-pi> at least i can keep using an updating linux system while it updates
<diddledan> this year will be the year of Windows on the desktop, finally
<daftykins> err, i've never found that you can't
<zmoylan-pi> on windows you start up or shut down and updates are been installed. and necessary updates stop the whole show till they are done
<zmoylan-pi> or is that just a vista thing
<daftykins> only if it's on auto and you're an end user that doesn't do them when you're supposed to i'd say
<daftykins> it's folks that fight it and then eventually click the wrong thing in frustration that then get delayed from what they were doing 'cause they didn't take the time out :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-14
<diddledan> whodathunkit: https://twitter.com/tinyrevolution/status/720312375107198978
<zmoylan-pi> i miss the shoot me i'm irish 80s...
<diddledan> at least the irish troubles had reason on both sides. republican: give us our land back. unionist: we keel j00 before yoo keel us.
<zmoylan-pi> ...simpler times...
<diddledan> the islamist war seems more "we hate everything. we go boomboom"
<diddledan> it's like the psygnosis game lemmings where you need to remove the remaining blocker lemmings so you make them blow themselves up
<zmoylan-pi> oh nooo...
<diddledan> I wonder if self-detonation counts as entry into the Darwin awards?
<zmoylan-pi> only if its unintentional i think
<diddledan> I hate premature detonation. you get all worked-up and blow your load early
<zmoylan-pi> or your mouse needed cleaning and made the levels that little more difficult in middle of level...
<diddledan> I miss mouses with balls
<diddledan> you're in the middle of a doom deathmatch and your mouse stops responding when your mate has finally got themselves a chainsaw
<diddledan> I hated that damned chainsaw
<zmoylan-pi> i _loved_ the chainsaw... only my bosses pc had a sound card at first so i could use the noise of chainsaw to find him...
<diddledan> now see that's the difference. you run towards the sound. I run away. fast.
<zmoylan-pi> i knew the levels well enough to run backwards with the machine gun on those instances... my own tail gunner... :-)
<diddledan> eff.org/action
<diddledan> specifically this one: https://act.eff.org/action/tell-congress-stop-the-burr-feinstein-backdoor-proposal
<diddledan> so. ubuntu on windows. it's a bit too much like running it as a vm for my liking - the only real interoperation between windows and ubuntu on windows is via the filesystem.
<diddledan> e.g. I can't link my gpg-agent running on windows with the bash shell or Vicky verky
<diddledan> that I can see, I mean
<diddledan> Cygwin at least has ssh-pageant to link to a putty-style ssh key agent (which I have provided via kleopatra from gpg4win with my gpg key)
<diddledan> I wonder if my yubikey would work in the bash shell for gpg signing, too
<daftykins> could change?
<diddledan> maybe
<daftykins> sometimes it just makes sense to segment hosts too
<diddledan> imagine I wanted to run a docker container, too. that would mean jumping out of bash into a normal windows powershell or cmd.exe to run the docker commands and then back into bash to do other stuff
<diddledan> I have a hard time imagining any dev that WSL is being targeted at NOT wanting to run docker
<diddledan> alternatively vagrant (or both)
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/C4IYLg8TgO8
<diddledan> cake
<diddledan> I need cake
<diddledan> I have cake
<mapito> hi
<mapito> cake?:Z
<davmor2> Morning all
<Myrtti> time of day
<popey> That
<bashrc> top of the morning
<davmor2> bashrc: I hate you, Now I got this stuck in my head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qc3_joy5A
<brobosti1on> morning boys and girls.
<popey> I bought a dehydrator, made some dried apple crisps, they're yummy. Now looking round the house for other things to put in it :)
<popey> parsnips may be next
<foobarry_> banana!!
<foobarry> and mango
<foobarry> anything found in graze boxes
<Myrtti> just need to calculate is it more economical to go to a Grapevine or whatever and get a bag from there. Rather keep it to something that you can't buy readymade.
<Myrtti> if it were Finland, I'd recommend drying forest mushrooms
<Myrtti> but it's not autumn and mushroom picking isn't that big in UK
<popey> I'm not doing it for economy
<popey> I don't like that we throw away some of the fruit / veg before it gets eaten
<popey> I'd like to preserve some to make snacks for the kids to take to school rather than buy ready made processed crap
<foobarry> banana turns rubbery and is goregous
<popey> we often have grapes left over, which eventually go bad, so probably gonna do some of them
<foobarry> will it cure meats?
<popey> i love dried banana, like the stuff you get in the "health food" shops
<popey> yes
<popey> It was a fb post from a co-worker who made loads of dried jerk beef in his that made me think of buying one
<Myrtti> yeah if you're not buying fruit specifically. Just pointing out that IIRC the dehydrator might take a surprising amount of leccy so if you're either using something that you might be throwing away or are doing something that you can't buy readymade, then you're better off
<popey> true
<popey> especially as it's on for many hours
<popey> took 6 hours to dehydrate 2 apples :)
<popey> deffo filling it up every time. no economy doing only half the trays
<foobarry> #1stworldproblems
<popey> :)
<davmor2> popey: how did you get on with your Mate?
<DJones> Morning all
<popey> davmor2: my what?
<davmor2> popey: Mate your birthday present of gord etc
<popey> wat?
<popey> oh, Mate!  ð
<popey> duh!
<popey> dunno, not used it yet
<popey> cured it and then haven't used it
<davmor2> popey: Man you suck today dude ;) You're going to have to be especially awesome for the rest of the day to make up for it :D
<popey> OKAY!
<popey> If Rich Hall is on tour near you, go and see him, he's entertaining :)
<davmor2> popey: not a big fan of rich hall, I'm more a bill bailey, milton jones kinda guy but I know that people who do like him have a proper good time at his gigs
<popey> Friend of the family donated a thinkpad to me. 2GHz / 1.5GB RAM / 40GB HDD. http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T43
<diplo> Why don't I get donations like that :)
<zmoylan-pi> i have people who keep trying to give me tvs when they hear i don't have one...
<davmor2> diplo: your dry sarcastic wit annoys your family and friends, whereas popey's makes him more appealing just a guess
<diplo> davmor2: meeeooooowwww! :P
<popey> Nah. I helped this woman move from her thinkpad to a mac
<popey> She bought a macbook air and wanted to move her email and files from Outlook Express (!) to Apple Mail.
<popey> Turns out, not as easy as you think, but do-able :)
<zmoylan-pi> was thinkpad running windows or lunix?
<popey> Windows 98
<davmor2> popey: ouch
<zmoylan-pi> win98... wow...
<popey> Which I am now imaging with clonezilla to my server in case she ever asks for some random file off it
<popey> no, xp, sorry
<zmoylan-pi> though i did like outlook express as 1) it worked 2) it was simple...
<davmor2> diplo: He says it's because he helps people but I bet it is the dry sarcastic wit really ;)
<popey> It had a 512MB stick (512MB on board too). I just rummaged and found a 1GB stick to put in it.
<diplo> heheh
<popey> It's i386 only though, not 64-bit.
<popey> Considering what to do with it.
<zmoylan-pi> it'll run a lot of distros nicely... :-)
<diplo> I'm still amazed by who is still running XP, my girlfriends school still runs it on their laptops!!!
<popey> considering making it command line only, no gui
<diplo> They RDP to a Win2008 server
<zmoylan-pi> 50million chinese botnets can't be wrong... :-)
<davmor2> popey: might make a nice test box for the low powered desktops like Lubuntu/Xubuntu etc
<popey> yeah, that's a good point
 * popey gets the latest lubuntu, xubuntu and mate i386 images :)
<diplo> It's down to that they have no cash to buy newer hardware and current hardware doesn't support Win7 and up
<davmor2> popey: also if it is all intel might make a nice unity8 play ground too :)
<zmoylan-pi> if 2016 would stop killing my childhood heros i'd be most grateful... http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-36041534
<popey> hahah
<popey> Heh, next month, this Thinkpad T43 will be 10 years old!
<popey> http://termbin.com/amxu - bios date is 05/18/2006
<popey> ooh, there's a bios update from 9/6/2006 :)
<zmoylan-pi> in a few years it can get a moped licence and become an autonomous vehicle... :-P
<popey> it's sturdy enough
<zmoylan-pi> the bike would use it for protection...
<popey> Today I learned, Clonezilla is based off Ubuntu Wily :)
<knightwise> mornin
<zmoylan-pi> merry christmas
<davmor2> popey: testing is off of xenial :)
<davmor2> popey: and stable is off of trusty iirc
<davmor2> popey: oh and there are debian versions too
<popey> the one I grabbed was wily interesting
<davmor2> popey: I think they have like proper stable, current and testing iirc stable is trusty, current is wily and testing is xenial iirc
<davmor2> popey: iirc current is what is dl'd by default
<Myrtti> scary
<Myrtti> myrtti@eeyore:~$ free                                                                       Exit Code: 1
<Myrtti> zsh: fork failed: cannot allocate memory
<davmor2> man this is weird https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onZMS1di6Mc
<davmor2> however I think I like it
<diddledan> davmor2: I like that!
<ujjain> James forgot ___ the lights before he left. a) to turn out b) turning out
<ujjain> It's no use ___ to him. He doesn't listen. a) to talk b) talking
<ujjain> both a and b seem fine to me?
<davmor2> ujjain: James a, it's no use b.
<ujjain> ah ok, thanks a lot
<davmor2> ujjain: technically both are correct but one sounds better so would be the one to use. James forgot turning out the lights doesn't sound right, whereas it's no use to talk to him doesn't, but the reverses both do sound right
<ujjain> Yeah I understand, one sounds better, thanks a lot.
<Myrtti> davmor2: I personally couldn't feel the difference between the options in the latter
<Myrtti> but I'm outsider anyway
<Seeker`> "it's no use to talk to him" doesn't flow as well
 * diddledan listening to the ubuntu podcast
<diddledan> it's the year of the Linux desktop?!
<diddledan> I'm addicted to cake
<Myrtti> lemon drizzle? red velvet? chocolate? strawberry?
<diddledan> coffee or chocolate or carrot
<diddledan> it's gotta have a good creme
<diddledan> crÃ¨me/icing
<Myrtti> we had some Tesco lemon drizzle last week and it was so much better after we kept it in a fridge for a while
<Myrtti> the filling inside got firmer
<zmoylan-pi> aged cake...
<diddledan> http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-sues-justice-dept-over-secret-demands-for-customer-data/
<zmoylan-pi> they want in on standing up for the little people thing that apple has going on...
<daftykins> pro: my new case is on the way.
<daftykins> con: it's coming from Germany o0
<zmoylan-pi> so not going to arrive before weekend then...
<daftykins> not sure how fast DHL can move, amazon's estimate is Wednesday
<diddledan> suckity suck suck
<Azelphur> I ordered a bunch of stuff from aliexpress, the one item I ordered with express shipping got lost in the post, the rest of it all arrived already
<Azelphur> fml :<
<daftykins> doing pretty well for a life when concerns are deliveries!
<Azelphur> I'm also proud of myself, my apartment complex charges Â£75 for a replacement key (rfid), I cloned the thing, I have 10 now.
<Azelphur> and the keyfobs themselves are Â£10 for a 100 on eBay.
<daftykins> you could have a guest per day of the month!
<Azelphur> Indeed!
<Azelphur> I still haven't figured out the radio transmitter for the car-entry though, https://www.reddit.com/r/RFID/comments/4etfwd/can_anyone_help_me_identify_this_find_an/ maybe someone has some insight on that :)
<ali1234> get an rtl-sdr and reverse engineer it
<ali1234> https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/mini-digital-tv-stick
<ali1234> http://doorentrydirect.com/bpt-gb-trk900-handheld-tag
<ali1234> http://www.advanced-access.co.uk/productdetail/636/gb-trk900
<ali1234> 433MHz transmitter, 125kHz tag
<ali1234> https://www.thecardnetwork.co.uk/access-control-cards/impro/trk900-uhf-handheld-4-button-impro-transmitter-xqt904.html
<ali1234> Azelphur: ^
<Azelphur> ali1234: nice find
<Azelphur> ali1234: I wonder how you'd program one of these, whether it has a separate "key" for the buttons / rfid, or whether programming the rfid also programs the buttons
<Azelphur> also, mine is very similar but not identical to that one, looks like that might be a newer model or something
<Azelphur> ali1234: this might be very useful? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Cloning-Electric-Gate-Garage-Door-Remote-Control-Key-Fob-433mhz-Cloner-/230746937342?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
<Azelphur> found one for Â£3.43 and from UK, well worth a punt I guess
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-15
<mapito> hi
<danyal> !log 100
<cleder> ust FYI: https://newark.lug.org.uk/ the Newark on trent Linux User group
<tavin> join
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> Hows it goin dude :)
<brobostigon> not bad overall, and you?
<knightwise> another busy day at the company :) catching up on some paperwor, , going to Brussels to do a pitch in about an hour
<brobostigon> :) good luck.
 * brobostigon dug his lg g watch out of the cupboard this morning, to see if the most recent android version has improved it.
<davmor2> brobostigon: hahahahahaha, did it?
<davmor2> popey: did you drink mate yet????
<zmoylan-pi> wearables are the future of unused hardware drawer fillers :-)
<brobostigon> davmor2: its on charge.
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: maybe, but i have had my pebble a good three years now, needed a new watch too, and its basiclly never left my watch, it does the job so well.
<brobostigon> left my wrist*
<zmoylan-pi> i am impressed by the pebble especially as it's a crowd funded effort. but aren't they laying off staff?
<davmor2> brobostigon: I have a Clockwork Automatic Watch it tells the time.  That's all I need a watch to do :) It never leaves my wrist either but that is because it unwinds if it does :)
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: they are, yes.
<brobostigon> davmor2: :)
<davmor2> someone really needs to invent an automatic to digital watch so you can have a smart watch without a battery
<davmor2> then it would be useful
<brobostigon> thats already been done, a lcd screen with assentially a solar panel embedded into it.
<zmoylan-pi> you want a digital sundial... :-) http://twistedsifter.com/2015/12/digital-sundial-you-can-3d-print-yourself/
<davmor2> brobostigon, zmoylan-pi: hey they did it already now they just need to make it smart and done :) http://watchismo.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/ventura-sparc-mgs-flash-sale-40-off-all.html
<zmoylan-pi> i think you'd need to have constant seizures to power even the most frugal smartwatches with kinetic power drive
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: no you don't you can still have the standard clockwork setup on set to cogs in such a way that the turns a dynamo fast enough to recharge the battery I can see it being easily doable
<davmor2> I mean it'll cost the earth but hey
<zmoylan-pi> sounds like a job for apple then...
<zmoylan-pi> or the swiss... those buggers make a clock that's powered by air pressure... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmos_clock
<davmor2> hang on atmos isn't that the thing that tries to kill us all?
<zmoylan-pi> only if it's dropped on you by the pics...
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Anybody here using Grive(2) to hook up to Google Drive?
<bigcalm> Today's is wonderfully morbidly fucked up :)
<bigcalm> WOOPS!
<bigcalm> !ohmy | bigcalm
<lubotu3`> bigcalm, please see my private message
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3`> The main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
<zmoylan-pi> just teaches the kids to use rude words from other languages like firefly or new slang...
<pavlushka> Hello every one!
 * davmor2 scrubs bigcalm mouth out with soap
<davmor2> pavlushka: hello
<pavlushka> davmor2: oh, here you are,!!!!
<pavlushka> Hello davmor2 !
<pavlushka> davmor2: your face looks fresher now!
<pavlushka> :p
<bigcalm> davmor2: thanks :P
<bigcalm> !rat
<lubotu3`> rat is The Real Ale Train. A yearly Ubuntu UK loco event to celebrate friends, trains and ale. Saturday 10th September 2016, Hampshire, UK: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3350-real-ale-train-2016/
<bigcalm> So, grive(2) anybody?
<ali1234> does it sync your google photos?
<ali1234> if it does i could probably be persuaded to give it a try
<davmor2> bigcalm: you're welcome :)
<Myrtti> Dysons pet hair vacuum attachment is great. 10/10, would recommend.
<bigcalm> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<bigcalm> :(
<bigcalm> !isitusableyet
<davmor2> bigcalm: no
<diddledan> I really must implement that site
<bigcalm> Ah well
<zmoylan-pi> !isitavailableonadellyet
<lubotu3`> zmoylan-pi: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<diddledan> !haspopeymovedontotheYreleaseyet
<lubotu3`> diddledan: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<popey> Oh, it's nearly time to guess the Y release name
<zmoylan-pi> yak
<zmoylan-pi> yawning yak
<zmoylan-pi> http://isitraining.in/Dublin i think they just put up a static page... :-)
<knightwise> Hey MartijnVdS  !
<knightwise> Long time no see !
<MartijnVdS> woo I revived my EeePC
<MartijnVdS> now upgrading saucy->trusty xD
<lopta> I secretly would like one of those.
<zmoylan-pi> oooh i had an eeepc the original 4gb ssd 7" jobbie and then a 10" one...
<MartijnVdS> I put in an Atheros a/b/g/n wifi card instead of the default ralink one
<MartijnVdS> this is the original run, 901 :)
<zmoylan-pi> thats the one
<zmoylan-pi> terrible battery life, distro and specs... but a real bargain... :-)
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: a 901 or higher ?
<knightwise> Anyone tried Cublinux let ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: https://www.asus.com/Notebooks/Eee_PC_901/
<lopta> What is a Cublinux?
<knightwise> lopta: a wonderfull stable clone between chrome-os and Ubuntu
 * lopta is confused
<lopta> I somehow fail to imagine what that would be like.
<lopta> I'll google for screenshots.
<knightwise> its very well done
<lopta> I'm almost tempted to try Xubuntu or Lubuntu on an old laptop that I have sitting around at the office.
<knightwise> lopta: give cub a try , its light and very good for these little machines
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: what are you running on it ?
<lopta> Hmm... ok.
<popey> 19:10 < MartijnVdS> this is the original run, 901 :)
<zmoylan-pi> ah... cloud centric... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cub_Linux
<popey> 701 was the original run
<popey> :)
 * knightwise still has one
<popey> 701 had the 7 inch screen and only 4GB SSD
<popey> i may still have one somewhere
<popey> one had a busted ssd and another just fails to boot
<popey> I had the nice black 701
<knightwise> popey: you classy man you
<popey> blimey, that's nearly 10 years ago!
<popey> I still have an Intel Classmate that I don't think ever went on sale
<knightwise> popey: we bought one of the first ones for my wifes gran$
<popey> was competition for the 701
<popey> heh
<lopta> Granubuntu?
<popey> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Intel_Classmate_PC.jpg
<knightwise> lopta: indeed ! the Ubuntu Granny
<popey> only pc i know of with a round touchpad
<knightwise> packard bell laptops have those too
<lopta> If I have a round touchpad I'd better have a round screen to go with it!
<popey> quality :)
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacewar_(video_game) like that? :)
<lopta> Something like that, aye.
<diddledan> just finished watching inside out
<diddledan> wow is that a movie
<knightwise> diddledan: erm .. yeah
<diddledan> I .. err .. lets say I lost my butch-male credibility
<lopta> diddledan: My daughter really liked it.
<popey> i liked that
 * lopta sings the Bing Bong Song
<lopta> ...much to the amusement of his cow-orkers.
<popey> Reminded me of The Numbskulls in the Beano. http://thecurseandthecure.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/312020241_4c4195e8a4_b.jpg
<diddledan> cow orkers? that sounds like a risquÃ© past-time
<lopta> What the heck CubLinux... The hope page says that torrents are available but the download page doesn't show them.
 * diddledan wanders off to ork a cow
<knightwise> lopta: https://github.com/CubLinux/one/releases/download/1.0RC/CubLinux-1.0RC-amd64.iso
<lopta> knightwise: That's not a .torrent
<knightwise> lopta: true.
<knightwise> its the .iso
<lopta> I suppose I'll just download that then.
<lopta> brb
<ali1234> diddledan: do you know of a simple search engine that i can install from the ubuntu repositories?
<ali1234> i just need to index some static html
<sebsebseb> hi
<lopta> hello sebsebseb
<lopta> Well, I've downloaded CubLinux
<lopta> I'll burn that to a CD this evening and try it over the weekend.
<lopta> Might try it in a VM first.
<mappps> hi all
<mappps> anyone watch the five?
<lopta> What's a five?
<mapps> the sky series
<lopta> Ah, never heard of it.
<daftykins> hmm funky behaviour with apache2 on 14.04, keeps reaching MaxRequestWorkers then stalling - sites become unavailable
<daftykins> found https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/why-apache-needs-so-much-children-when-almost-there-is-no-connections so i've adjusted the MaxConnectionsPerChild away from 0 as suggested
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-16
<ali1234> daftykins: is it running on a VM?
<ali1234> i saw that type of behaviour once when the VM had plenty of "normal" memory but very low kernel dedicated memory due to the virtualization memory sharing
<daftykins> ali1234: nah, a guys physical host that's a hex core AMD with 8GB RAM i think
<daftykins> heya
<daftykins> long time no see :>
<ball> Hello daftykins!
<daftykins> how goes it?
<ball> daftykins: It goes. I'm currently installing CubLinux in a VM to see what it does.
<ball> I'm trying to improve my tolerance for Linux ;-)
<daftykins> ah, funny name - is it yet another ubuntu derivative, or?
<ball> Possibly. I'm told it's somewhere between Ubuntu and ChromiumOS
<ball> What that means in practice I have yet to see ;-)
<daftykins> hmm yeah that's a puzzling label
<daftykins> i just looked up where my new PC case i ordered from amazon, is
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bfqpryih0sn94zh/dhl.png?dl=0
<daftykins> it would appear DHL Germany, at least in that town, has never heard of the Channel Islands
<ball> heh.
<ball> That's messed up.
<ball> daftykins: What case did you get?
<daftykins> i plumped for the Antec P280, quite the fan of the 180 i bought back in 2007 - just no USB 3 :)
<ball> the case I just bought has USB 3.0 but my mainboard doesn't.
<ball> brb, baby's crying
<daftykins> doh! you could get a cheap card perhaps
<ball> daftykins: Not for this mainboard ;-)
<ball> It has no PCIe slots.
<daftykins> oh not standard eh
<daftykins> i had to improvise - https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rwqr9u3b2ym1xv/image-20160414_183125.jpg?dl=0
<ball> It's standard ...it's just old.
<ball> mITX with one parallel 32-bit PCI slot.
<ball> Probably 32-bit 33 MHz
<daftykins> ah yeah
<daftykins> hmm that might exist :>
<ball> I'll be back, hopefully in an hour or two.
<mappps> hi
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> hrmm my change of maxconnectionsperchild caused MySQL to fall over instead, interesting
<ChunkzZ> anyone here with virgin media?
<penguin42> ChunkzZ: Yeh
<ChunkzZ> I just logged in to my vm, it says I can upgrade to 70mbps from 50mbps. is it free? their chat isn't open right now...
<ChunkzZ> penguin42, ^
<ChunkzZ> what I mean is, have you had this too?
<penguin42> ChunkzZ: Ah, I guess is the new Vivid thing
<penguin42> ChunkzZ: So they promised everyone they'd be doing an upgrade - when it happens depends on your area
<ChunkzZ> yeah, it says it's ready in my area.
<penguin42> ChunkzZ: Mine still says the upgrade is coming between July and September - although it originally said it was December last year, so who the heck knows
<penguin42> ChunkzZ: I'd go for it
<penguin42> ChunkzZ: Actually I don't really need the 50-70 upgrade; what I do want is the increase in upstream bandwidth they're giving at the same time
<diddledan> ChunkzZ: they might need to send you a new modem thingy which costs Â£5.99 for the delivery. otherwise itâs all free to upgrade and it doesnât affect your contract length (i.e. if you can leave now then youâll still be able to leave now even though youâve upgraded)
<ChunkzZ> diddledan, I already have the sh2.
<ChunkzZ> I paid Â£20 for it so time back
<ChunkzZ> I only asked because my xbox one is killing downloads speed lol done 100gb or some so far :/
<ChunkzZ> anyway, off for a while. thanks! XD
<daftykins> diddledan: ever seen a 'googlebot' hammering a site every second?
<daftykins> seems to be what's trashing my mates web server
<diddledan> hmm
<penguin42> daftykins: Hmm Google are normally pretty good at not doing that
<daftykins> seems suspect doesn't it, yeah
<daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15877703/
 * penguin42 bets it's not google
<daftykins> *nod* funny that i did ask if him or his friend who has a site on the same box had any enemies lately ;)
<daftykins> seems to be a dutch IP
<daftykins> what might be the best way to block that IP from causing trouble? this guy only runs his machine from home
<penguin42> you could add an iptables drop rule for that IP,b ut if it is someone doing something nasty on purpose it'll probably change IP
<daftykins> looks like apache has a .htaccess IP blocking param
 * penguin42 prefers to block at the IP level as a drop - potentially less traffic and they just see timeouts rather than immediate errors
<daftykins> makes sense, i just didn't want to jump to filtering too quick, just have a quick glance at what this'll do first
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> a lot of the things are scanning for particular php installations
<daftykins> hmm yeah requests spamming are still hitting apache, so time to learn the ufw trickery
<daftykins> i wonder if i can do anything on his home router though
<daftykins> probably pointless to look
<penguin42> there's a chance that the router might have a thing to block by IP
<daftykins> looks like Austrian ISPs are in on the whole secondary SSID to give out free wifi, too
<daftykins> bet he doesn't even know :>
<zmoylan-pi> what's yours is theirs...
<daftykins> are there any issues with just rm'ing a bunch of old gzipped rotated logs?
<daftykins> all this bot action has created 50 something .gz's in /var/log/apache2/
<daftykins> mm looking much better now, thanks for the replies penguin42 :)
<m0nkey_> Any thoughts on this monitor? http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236294
<m0nkey_> It's on sale and thinking of getting it
<zmoylan-pi> it'd take a determined cat to slepp on top of that... :-)
<daftykins> have you got the hardware to drive that resolution, m0nkey_ ?
<m0nkey_> daftykins, yes
<daftykins> what'll it be on?
<daftykins> looks like a PLS/IPS panel so that should be nice :)
<m0nkey_> It'll be on my Windows machine, GTX 960.  Did consider a 4K but I'd need a 980Ti to drive it.
<daftykins> ah plenty new enough card then :) my 560Ti can't handle it
<daftykins> does your 960 not have displayport out?
<m0nkey_> It has display port, hdmi and dvi.
<daftykins> pretty certain a 960 would do 4K out then
<m0nkey_> I find 4K a tad too high, it looks very nice, but find text looks tiny.
<m0nkey_> especially in things like consoles, irc. etc.. i know i can adjust the font :P
<daftykins> yeah, scaling controls are still a bit iffy too
<daftykins> i have the 1920x1080 panel model of this Dell XPS 13 9350 laptop and find it's ideal, all this QHD stuff is a waste
<m0nkey_> heh, just looked to see what outputs I have, 1 dvi, 1 hdmi and 3xdisplay port
<m0nkey_> Other option is to save $50 and get the 25" model.. http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236453
<m0nkey_> The 25" model actually appears to be better spec'd
 * daftykins glances
<daftykins> http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Productcompare.aspx?CompareItemList=-1|24-236-453^24-236-453%2C24-236-294^24-236-294
<daftykins> looks like it claims 2 x DVI on the 25" too
<daftykins> you would definitely want to use DP, of course - so might want to check what cables you get
<daftykins> i would imagine input lag checking would be worth it if you are a gamer too
<m0nkey_> both screens come with vga, dvi, hdmi and dp cables
<daftykins> neat
<daftykins> m0nkey_: did i show you my new build?
<m0nkey_> nope
<daftykins> currently the case is much delayed since my first one was damaged, so the floorputer had to be done... https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rwqr9u3b2ym1xv/image-20160414_183125.jpg?dl=0
<m0nkey_> lol
<daftykins> got myself an i7 6700 with 32GB RAM and the samsung 950 Pro M.2 NVMe SSD on the corner of the motherboard beside the PCH there
<daftykins> using my old nvidia GTX 560Ti until the new mid-range generation cards are announced in June/July
<ChunkzZ> daftykins, lmao
<zmoylan-pi> will 32gb of ram be enough? :-)
<ChunkzZ> I thought my 8gb ram 120gb ssd quad amd was good haha
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i virtualise a lot, so maybe!
<daftykins> ChunkzZ: :) only cost me Â£600 for the lot, the PSU + graphics being from my old build
 * zmoylan-pi slums it on 4gb laptop... AND 1gb rasp pi b
<ChunkzZ> nice! I paid Â£140 for mine.
<m0nkey_> So, would you go with the 25 or 27" display? Thee 27" is currently on sale
<ChunkzZ> I'm on my pi 2 right now, 16gb sandisk ultra sd card. overclocked and over volted it. runs fast as hell now.
<ChunkzZ> stable, too. I love it not costing much to run. XD
<daftykins> m0nkey_: hmm, well i had a 25" 2560x1440 Dell U2515H in the other day and i found it quite a nice size, guess it depends on your desk + seated distance really
<zmoylan-pi> overclocking a pi... :-)
<m0nkey_> My current display is 24" and I like it's size
<m0nkey_> So 25" wouldn't take much more space
<m0nkey_> Also, it seems the specs are slightly better on the 25" model
<daftykins> *nod* i quite like my 24s
<zmoylan-pi> whereas 27" will mean lifting the mouse at least once to get the pointer to other side of the screen... :-D
<daftykins> so funny i've had DisplayPort capable displays since 2008 and yet not owned anything to use them...
<ChunkzZ> lmao total xbox one usage, 59.28GB...dahell
<daftykins> traffic? welcome to modern title patching
<ChunkzZ> yeah, didn't think it was possible on 50mbps
<ChunkzZ> lol
<ChunkzZ> 65gb for gta v :/
<daftykins> i still tend to buy discs, but the patches post install are still chunky :D
<daftykins> no such thing as a "quick game" anymore i find, always some huge patch to throw on
<ChunkzZ> yeah :/
<daftykins> i don't let my lounge stuff run on the whole 'not really turned off' mode
<ChunkzZ> only thing of mine that is always on is my pi 2
<ChunkzZ> everything else is more or less off
<zmoylan-pi> i have 1 switch in bedroom that turns off everything and 1 in kitchen that turns off all but the pi and wifi ap it's connected to
<daftykins> mmm i do that with my TV area, although sometimes it makes a nasty POP when i click the one with more gear on it on, not too pleasant :)
<zmoylan-pi> and i also have 1-2 timer switches that turn things connected off at certain times.  like night time and times when i'll be out of the house.  so if i accidently leave something on it gets switched off if i don't over ride it
<daftykins> makes me laugh when playing on the xbox with some friends that haven't bothered to turn off the power save settings that auto power off after x hours
<daftykins> you hear this mad scramble for the remote :D
<daftykins> after 5 times you'd think they'd take the 20 seconds to turn it off...
<zmoylan-pi> it powers off even if you are still using it??
<daftykins> yeah, really odd idea
<zmoylan-pi> they'll release a super cool rentable bot that will not cut the power while you're using it for $5 a month... :-)
<penguin42> you'd think you could key off the activity and not turn it off if it was in use
<zmoylan-pi> shhhhh, my way makes a tonne of money... :-)
<daftykins> penguin42: yeah, i think it only happened with external input devices over HDMI - tough to gauge i would imagine
<daftykins> i just turn all that junk off and use mine as a glorified monitor :)
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: What does your bot do when it's not not doing that?
<zmoylan-pi> does the usual nsa snooping... :-)
<penguin42> oh ok, I just wondered if you need to keep it away from sharp implements
<zmoylan-pi> for your protection...
<zmoylan-pi> nah.... sharp never entered the console market i don't think... :-P
<penguin42> hmm I would be surprised if they never did
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Does https://www.msx.org/wiki/Sharp_HB-8000 count?
 * zmoylan-pi looks...
<zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Famicom
<penguin42> that is closer
<zmoylan-pi> i can put my hand on my heart and say i never heard of either of them...
<zmoylan-pi> a shame as sharp made some great hardware
<penguin42> I'd guessed they made an MSX but didn't know for sure
<rindolf> Hi all. Long time.
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> welcome back
<rindolf> daftykins: thanks! How are you?
<penguin42> rindolf: Hey
<daftykins> all good here ta, just playing with VMs on my new PC - yourself?
<rindolf> daftykins: today I worked on inkscape and previously on mageia.
<zmoylan-pi> is it a new pc if it doesn't have a case yet? :-)
<rindolf> and i tried to play Hashi but didn't have the nerve for it.
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: totally!
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Is it a new PC if you replace everything except the case?
<rindolf> penguin42: hi, whats' new?
<zmoylan-pi> no it's an upgraded pc... even if the only part from the original is the case
<MartijnVdS> according to Microsoft, as soon as you replace the motherboard/CPU it's a new PC, I think?
<daftykins> i kept the PSU and graphics card, plus drives
<zmoylan-pi> sometimes a new network card can make microsoft twitchy
<penguin42> rindolf: Not much, all good
<rindolf> penguin42: nice
<directhex_> i think the licensing thing is pretty much "upgrade motherboard"
<directhex_> but it's not my department
<daftykins> yeah it's x number of device changes, typically 3+ major components
<directhex_> that's WGA checks, which is orthogonal to the actual license permissions
<directhex_> you can change your GPU a hundred times, and you're licensed to do so
<daftykins> hmm i don't agree, plus that's only a single item
<daftykins> not really seen a lot of this in practice since XP days, mind you
<directhex> WGA is a coarse effort to implement the licensing requirements. it is not, in itself, the licensing requirements
<directhex> if you get told to bog off by WGA, you phone the phone activation number, and you get activated. you're not being sneaky, as long as you haven't upgraded your motherboard
<daftykins> sounds a lot like hair splitting, this convo
<zmoylan-pi> it did mark a new level of ms sneakiness when they installed the wga software as a performance improvement piece of software iirc
<directhex> (directly replacing one board with another under something you could consider a warranty replacement is fine)
<directhex> which of us is the MS employee? :p
<zmoylan-pi> i used to work just around the corner from ms in ireland... there were times when we had problems with their software were the joke in the office was to pop around with a baseball bat and ask them /directly/ :-P
<daftykins> i'm not aware of anyones employment status!
<ali1234> licencing is pretty much the art of hair splitting, what did you expect?
<zmoylan-pi> it more than anything else drove me to linux.  not having to worry about licence keys and activations and other such silly barriers
<daftykins> probably for the necessary granularity to not go undetected
<daftykins> yeah, i can see how it might
<zmoylan-pi> of course at the time i had to activate a lot of win xp over a touch tone phone on hands free typeing in 36 digit number on phone and then on keyboard to activate so that might have biased me somewhat... :-)
<ali1234> well the GPL has just as much scope for disagreement as any other licence
<zmoylan-pi> that's why we have so many variants of gpl
<diddledan> Just have to look at the zfs issue for that
<daftykins> :)
<popey> evening
<daftykins> \o
<directhex> is it?
<directhex> we should ban those
<zmoylan-pi> could be worse... could be the long dark tea time of the soul...
<popey> Die Hard 2 on C4+1 \o/
<daftykins> haha, checking that friends web server again i see another googlebot, but this time it's actually a google IP
<zmoylan-pi> great christmas movie... goes well with all the family squabbles...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> find it odd when you folk are excited by films on broadcast TV given modern tech though
<zmoylan-pi> well i have a dvd rip here of die hard 1-4 iirc
<popey> i like surprises
<daftykins> one step better than my dad hanging onto his VHS collection of recorded-from-TV including the 10 o'clock news
 * zmoylan-pi ties popey's shoelaces together... :-P
<ali1234> "After this operation, 1,462 MB disk space will be freed."
<zmoylan-pi> someone in another irc channel on hearing the news of blake 7 actors death is now rummaging for his vhs or dvd set of blakes 7... didn't have betamax for some reason...
<ali1234> i'm slightly worried by this
<daftykins> ali1234: haha
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: channel 4 from 9 this evening
<diddledan> Oh popey already said
<ali1234> well i couldn't figure out how to use solr
<zmoylan-pi> and been on c4 they won't edit out rude language... they'll edit in extra... :-)
<diddledan> Someone on the news on 4 at around 6:30 said the b word
<zmoylan-pi> brexit?
<popey> Bernie?
<zmoylan-pi> budget?
<penguin42> belgium?
<zmoylan-pi> oooooh belguim... how rude... to the americans...
<diddledan> Ruddy
<zmoylan-pi> http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Belgium
<penguin42> haha I hadn't realised that it was used only in American versions of the 3rd novel
<zmoylan-pi> i only heard about the american version when douglas adams died and it was discussed on slashdot and one group of geeks was looking at the others going what the hell are you talking about belgium for?
<zmoylan-pi> you just expect the book to be the same everywhere
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's when i first heard of last chance to see as well...
<popey> oops.. E: Unable to locate package kinkscape
<daftykins> Freud would be proud
<ali1234> blah this sucks
<daftykins> package hell?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> solr 3 is useless
<ali1234> newer versions need java 8
<ali1234> is juju still a thing?
<directhex> i ended up using make-jpkg to put oracle java 8 on my servers
<ali1234> there is supposedly a ppa but i ain't touching that
<daftykins> is that because gentoo, or you don't fancy using webupd8's PPA?
<daftykins> i think they essentially package oracle's installer
<ali1234> this is ridiculous. i just want a turnkey search appliance. i don't want to write schemas. i don't even know what a schema is.
<directhex> it's someone who sits & makes evil plots
<zmoylan-pi> minimum requirements, one volcano base
<daftykins> one Brains
<penguin42> popey: Oh, that'll be the vector plugin for gimp then?
<zmoylan-pi> baldrick came up with schemas
<penguin42> ali1234: https://xapian.org/docs/omega/overview.html ?
<daftykins> the most cunning schemas of all
<ali1234> penguin42: reading...
<penguin42> ali1234: xapian-omega package  - not tried it but someone I know I think was involved in the search stuff a while back
<zmoylan-pi> but it does cast a little doubt on the brains requirement...
<ali1234> https://xapian.org/docs/omega/quickstart.html that looks easy enough...
<sebsebseb> hi
<ali1234> hmm... this seems pretty speedy
<ali1234> seems to work
<ali1234> just got to get the cgi onto the webpage now
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/teletext/search.cgi - it works
<penguin42> oh I wondered if that's what you were using it for :-)
<penguin42> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/teletext/bbc1/1997-01-10-0047.2/623.html
<penguin42> ali1234: Could probably do with filtering out the teletext characters from the search results somehow
<ali1234> yeah, not sure how i'd do that
<ali1234> even better would be to display them properly
<ali1234> that might actually be easier
<ali1234> just add the right css
<penguin42> you've got the display stuff done in CSS ? Neat - even double height?
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it's pure html
<ali1234> no images at all
<penguin42> very nice
<penguin42> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/teletext/bbc1/1982-12-29-0027.2/702.html
<ali1234> yeah telesoftware
<penguin42> there are a few noticeable errors on most pages - like the CEEFA( in that one - I hate to think about the code
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/teletext/bbc1/1985-12-22-0056.1/720.html
<ali1234> page numbers are also links
<ali1234> but only if the page actually exists
<ali1234> (fastext as well)
<penguin42> hth did you manage to get double height decoded in CSS
<ali1234> it uses a different font which is half width and font-size:200%;
<ali1234> it isn't done with two rows of text like mode7
<ali1234> the html generator just turns it into one line
<penguin42> ah ok
<ali1234> i'm out of vhs tapes now
 * penguin42 may have a pile
<ali1234> i kind of want to ask people to send me more, but i don't want to get thousands of tapes
<ali1234> mainly because there's bound to be people who dont understand they have to be recorded off the tv
<penguin42> yeh
<zmoylan-pi> did bbc not keep archive of ceefax?
<ali1234> nope
<zmoylan-pi> did bbc website offer access to ceefax pages? rte irelands tv station did.
<ali1234> not that i know of
<ali1234> it's the same stuff. all the systems were linked
<zmoylan-pi> there was a crude version that could be reached via web.  might be on waybackmachine
<ali1234> i have pages back to 1982
<ali1234> other people have recovered pages from the 70s
#ubuntu-uk 2016-04-17
<zmoylan-pi> even now they still have the irish teletext page numbers... but its not on waybackmachine as robots.txt stopped it... http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/103-1.html
<ali1234> that's... not teletext
<ali1234> looks like red button
<zmoylan-pi> no but back when teletext was still in use. the pages looked identical to the teletext pages
<zmoylan-pi> now it's more... digital service
<ali1234> yeah
<zmoylan-pi> but still the same page numbers
<popey> About ready to lob my new laptop out the window thanks to bug 1522922
<lubotu3`> bug 1522922 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Screen flickering in Intel i915 driver" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1522922
<ali1234> digital launched without page numbers. everyone hated it
<ali1234> so they brought back the numbers, but it still sucks
<zmoylan-pi> drink enough coffee to make you phase at same speed as blink? :-P
<popey> tried patching out the bits that people say broke it, and kernel failed to build :(
<zmoylan-pi> if you drop the screen res/colour depth does the flicker go away?
<sebsebseb> woo popey pretty much  lives on IRC even now :d
<daftykins> popey: that sounds like that skylake driver issues in older kernels, which ver you dealing with?
<popey> its not an older kernel issue
<daftykins> oh ok
<popey> it affects these chips if you drive it less than the full capability
<popey> so if it's capable of doing 4k external (e.g.) but has a 1080p you will see it
<daftykins> i read about flickering happening on skylake without this preliminary support param being added
<popey> as 1080p panel is less than capacity
<daftykins> yay Linux
<popey> It is allegedly two patches, they have a new patch (two in fact) but those got rejected by Intel QA
<popey> some months ago
<popey> and it's just sat there unfixed since
<ali1234> i can't remember the last time i had a problem with nvidia :P
<popey> and we ship this kernel on thursday
<penguin42> popey: Then revert that pair?
<popey> as i said, i tried but kernel biuld failed
<popey> <- not a kernel hacker :)
<penguin42> popey: Oh, got the error? It's probably pretty easy to fix the build error
<ali1234> git revert?
<popey> i have the two patch files and -R reverted them
<popey> lemme try the build again, have rebooted since so lost scrollback
<ali1234> did you commit the changes after?
<popey> no, I'm not using git
<penguin42> oh
<ali1234> did it even reverse apply clean?
<ali1234> lol why not??
<popey> uh
<popey> because i was building from the source that built the kernel I'm running
<ali1234> building from the source deb?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> ew
<popey> so i could shove it in a ppa
<ali1234> i don't even know how to make that work
<popey> okay, I'll do this on my own, never mind.
<ali1234> without modifying the source
<penguin42> popey: Yeh throw us the errors you get, it looks like it should revert OK
<penguin42> popey: Remember to patch -R them in the opposite order to that they were applied
<popey> ok
<popey> ta
<penguin42> why are you running the internal LCD at not-it's normal-res ?
<popey> I'm not
<popey> I'm running it at 1080p, native res
<popey> the bug says if you run it less than the chipset capability
<popey> I mean, it's entirely possibly I'm seeing a different bug
<penguin42> oh less than chipset capacity, I thought it was less than panel capacity
<popey> which is why I want to test reverting these two patches to see
<popey> because others reported it worked
<popey> hm
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15884141/
<penguin42> oh, you've got a machine called gort too :-)
<popey> :)
<penguin42> popey: OK, without understanding anything about the actual hardware.....
<penguin42> popey: You see that line where it says train_set_valid = true;   ?   try making that false.
<penguin42> popey: and leave the rest as is
<popey> undo the patch revert?
<penguin42> popey: Yeh, back to clean source
<popey> ok
<popey> ta
<penguin42> popey: My theory goes that the whole thing is a cache and it only uses the cache if that flag is valid; so if it's never valid then perhaps it'll just do the old path
<penguin42> popey: Or apply the patch in comment 31
<ali1234> that's a really weird patch
<ali1234> it doesn't actually introduce any new behaviour, it just sometimes avoids doing the old behaviour
<penguin42> ali1234: What's so weird about that?
<penguin42> ali1234: It's an optimisation to try and avoid doing that thing sometimes
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> but
<ali1234> it seems very long winded
<penguin42> ali1234: I suspect there's a lot of ordering stuff about when you can avoid it and error recovery and stuff - which they've obviously not got right
<ali1234> yeah that big bit with DRM_DEBUG_KMS
<ali1234> it will always run if control reaches it
<ali1234> i suspect that is the problem
<ali1234> it tries to reuse the stuff, then always hits that bit of code and decides actually it can't reuse it
<ali1234> that's the only bit that actually does anything
<ali1234> but the logic of that is weird
<ali1234> if (thing is valid) { thing is not actually valid};
<daftykins> i'd heard from somewhere that intel engineers are finding their own hardware a bit of a challenge even under Windows these days
<ali1234> i would have explicitly set the flag to not valid, reversed the if, and then set the flag back if it was successfully made valid
<popey> The intel video driver has been awful on linux for a long time now
<daftykins> mmm
<penguin42> daftykins: The damn stuff is all getting very complicated - VGA was just nice and simple; this things having to do protocol negotiations with the LCD panel, and people care about really really low power and there's firmware blobs and who knows what
<daftykins> oh totally
<penguin42> (That probably means there's firmware on the panel as well? That's a scary thought)
<daftykins> well VGA seems to be a constant hassle with EDID woes these days, judging from my time in #ubuntu giving support
<daftykins> 9 times out of 10, switching to a digital interface would at least let you see what was going wrong more clearly, if not just solve it immediately
<daftykins> the fact it's still delving into xorg.conf after all these years though is such cringe
<penguin42> yeh fighting X seems to have got more common again
<daftykins> a really gifted guy that comes in #ubuntu sometimes has an amazing setup of 5+ displays from a business line Dell laptop which he has an external graphics card connected into via expresscard
<daftykins> amazing amount of fiddling to get his display setup going :D
<penguin42> oh heck, is that one display at each point of the pentacle to get that to work?
<ali1234> hmm i think i see the problem
<ali1234> here is the context: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/gpu/drm/i915/intel_dp.c?h=v4.4#n3735
<penguin42> ali1234: That return is unusual
<ali1234> immediately above that, intel_dp_reset_link_train was called
<ali1234> then if the flag is marked as valid it is called again in the loop
<ali1234> and then the return
<ali1234> but presumably that doesn't happen if it didn't happen the first time
<ali1234> then below it we have some "voltage_tries" stuff
<ali1234> so that loop is designed to run a few times, maybe, before it works
<ali1234> i suspect deleting lines 3724-3730 might actually be the correct fix
<ali1234> maybe someone forgot to delete it
<ali1234> or possibly only call it if (!intel_dp->train_set_valid)
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure - I don't understand how much it's trying; my reading is it's resetting that clock recovery stuff, if that comes up ok then it's done; only if that fails does it then go into the stuff where it tests the training set stuff?
<ali1234> i read it like this
<ali1234> before the patch: call intel_dp_reset_link_train, then make sure everything came up okay
<ali1234> if not, call intel_dp_reset_link_train and loop
<ali1234> up to 5 times
<ali1234> so what's the point of the new bit of code?
<ali1234> it only makes sense if they are trying to avoid the reset entirely
<ali1234> in which case... the reset before the loop shouldn't happen
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure if it's one reset or a few; is the link training the same thing as the clock recovery?
<ali1234> lines 3725, 3757, 3776
<ali1234> all the same call
<penguin42> hmm true
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh except the 2nd patch in the series changes the intel_dp_reset_link_train
<ali1234> i'm looking at the 4.4 flat code
<penguin42> ali1234: It avoids reseting the data if the flag is true
<ali1234> second patch?
<ali1234> you mean the memset?
<penguin42> yeh
<ali1234> i dont think that is relevant
<ali1234> also that's the first patch
<penguin42> ali1234: so in both cases it wiggles the training stuff, but after these patches it starts the training stuff from the previously cached settings
<ali1234> you can tell because it adds the bool, the second one just uses it
<penguin42> yeh, but I'm nots ure it's bad to call that dp_reset_link_train
<ali1234> does it actually look at the flag inside that function?
<penguin42> if it's just writing the same data back
<penguin42> yeh
<ali1234> oh is that the function where the memset happens?
<ali1234> i see
<penguin42> ali1234: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/stable/linux-stable.git/patch/?id=4e96c97742f4201edf1b0f8e1b1b6b2ac6ff33e7
<penguin42> ali1234: See the first change in there
<ali1234> yeah
<popey> Heh, i love just mentioning something in here and you guys having fun with understanding the code :)
<penguin42> popey: *trying* understanding the code
 * penguin42 knows very little about eDP, the intel training stuff or any of that
<penguin42> but I think most serial systems have training phases these days
<ali1234> so...
<ali1234> easiest way to revert this is to set the flag to false right before the line 3725
<ali1234> then it should behave exactly as before
<penguin42> hence my suggestion before of just removing the thing that ever set it to true
<popey> ..still building
<ali1234> yeah that should also work
<ali1234> although... where does it get initialized the first time?
<penguin42> popey: Still?
<penguin42> popey: you're using -j   right?
<ali1234> um
<ali1234> train_set_valid is never initialized?
<penguin42> hmmmm
<ali1234> (possibly)
<ali1234> so maybe it's just trying to use garbage?
<ali1234> that would certainly explain the flickering
<penguin42> that structure might be safely 0 initialised as a whole
<penguin42> ali1234: I think it might be part of the intel_dig_port that they use kzalloc to allocate
<popey> it's only doing j2 i think
<ali1234> comes from enc_to_intel_dp which is converting some other thing
<popey> oh, -j4
<penguin42> popey: My normal thing is 2x the number of cores I have
<penguin42> popey: The big problem with distro configs is they enable *everything*
<penguin42> popey: There are probably no users of USB lego mindstorm drivers on the same machine as fibre channel storage and 100Gbps infiniband connections
<penguin42> probably
<popey> yeah, I'm trying to change as little as possible
<popey> because in the past I have changed too much and knackered some other part of my daily workflow
 * penguin42 did about 15 kernel builds during the week trying to bisect down a screwup that was breaking something I was using; slowly got more annoyed removing random USB drivers and the like to speed it u
<penguin42> p
<ali1234> yeah, it's in intel_digital_port which is kzalloc'd
<popey> i wanted to try a really old kernel, turns out it didn't have the aes bit to decrypt my luks hdd
<penguin42> really? Hasn't that stuff been there for ever?
<popey> sure, but we switched to a new cypher
<popey> from ~4.x
<penguin42> oh
<popey> so my default install can only be unlocked with a 4.x kernel
<popey> which is a useful datapoint
<popey> heh, building modules for TV cards I will never own
<popey> I wonder how many of these drivers are in use by like one guy somewhere
<penguin42> popey: Often the case some of this stuff is now none
<ali1234> i know for a fact that some of those DVB drivers don't work any more
<popey> what, kernel changed and they weren't updated?
<penguin42> popey: I do have an unfortunate problem with one of my dads old laptops, the VGA/DRM driver for it was removed because someone noticed it was hopelessly insecure and no one wanted to spend the time to fix it; so the laptop is now using the generic drivers on 14.04 and is slow as hell
<ali1234> i don't know why they don't work... they just don't
<penguin42> popey: Welcome to bit rot
<popey> ew
<popey> vesa
<penguin42> yeh
<popey> ooh, it's building zfs
<popey> which is separate it seems
<popey> checking zfs license... CDDL
<popey> heh
<daftykins> whilst i'd be the first to say people should no longer be using them, those that insist on keeping using netbooks have basically got a non-workable system with a lot of modern stuff now because the intel driver seems to have regressed for GM965 since 12.04
<penguin42> there's not that much choice on the low power x86
<popey> The T43 I got given this week turned out to work quite well with Ubuntu MATE 16.04 :)
<popey> Not bad for a >10 year old computer
<daftykins> yeah anything but netbooks really
<daftykins> that sounds like a possible core 2 duo?
<popey> i _think_ so
<daftykins> sometimes i just think there are some folk who are enabling bad decisions too much in #ubuntu for claiming lubuntu will resurrect some of the museum pieces out there
<popey> Pentium M 2.0GHz
<popey> Was hilarious getting the factory XP install on it
<daftykins> ah the M
<daftykins> :D
<popey> watching all the IBM nonsense self-install was fun
<penguin42> popey: Did you have to pass the force PAE during the install?
<popey> no
<penguin42> interesting; we had to do that for someone with a mate install the other week
<popey> not all pentium M' are equal?
<daftykins> i seem to recall the lubuntu installs had to be picked at some point as they came with a forcepae config as default or some such
<daftykins> yeah i think later ones may've changed something
<popey> maybe it's default yeah, dunno
<penguin42> popey: Apparently not, and I don't really understand why - some of them have PAE, some of them don't; and apparently some of them have it but say they dont
<popey> it's a cracking little laptop
<popey> We are a 5 Thinkpad household now
<popey> the T43 was apparently the last one made under IBM name
<popey> and has no windows key
<penguin42> I tend to use my Model M keyboard that's similarly windows-key-less
<popey> there's a wiki page I found with a list of niche features people look for in thinkpads, with the list of models that fulfil the requirements
<daftykins> i use super too much to go without
<popey> I do find it odd that my T450 shipped with all the VT stuff switched off in the BIOS
<penguin42> yeh this day and age
<daftykins> that's pretty common across all manufacturers, i once read a claim that it's because 'malware could take over your host OS and turn it into a VM, inserting programs you couldn't see running'
<popey> ahh
<daftykins> actually the gifted guy i mentioned earlier helped me patch the BIOS on a Sony TZ i have which doesn't have the VT option in its' BIOS and was disabled
<popey> speaking of which, i should play with coreboot one day
<daftykins> quick edit after showing him a copy of the NVRAM i think for him to oonfirm the options position and hey presto - KVM got enabled :>
<popey> now i have machines that can use it
<penguin42> yeh I've heard that idea of rootkitting like that (I can't remember the name someone came up with); I find it unlikely but hmm
<penguin42> right, it's apparently now -0c out there; which is very annoying for mid April
<daftykins> :O
<popey> lots of LDing now
<popey> feels close to the end
<popey> maybe not :)
<daftykins> i was surprised to see VT-d and VT-x were off on my new skylake build as default, too
<popey> bah, gonna leave it running and sleep
<popey> thanks for the help chaps
<ball> I remember sleep.
<penguin42> yeh sleep sounds a good plan
<daftykins> and then they were gone
<ball> daftykins: Any sign of your package yet?
<daftykins> nah still stuck in Germany i think on the last update, lets see if anything else has changed
<daftykins> i'm not sure how it'd make it here from there, probably via London
<daftykins> amazon reckon Wednesday!
<daftykins> still, i think waiting is the best part of new things :)
<ball> That's why I still shoot on film. ;-)
<daftykins> hehehe
<ball> That and I can't afford a Pentax K3
<ball> ...and it's nice to have at least one hobby that's not computerised.
<daftykins> one of my clients is hugely into his cameras, constantly buying new models that once again rename the RAW file extension they use and needing yet another program to open them
<daftykins> often has these quite fancy super compact Leica models with huge displays on the back
<ball> Sounds dismal. How do his prints look though?
<daftykins> full size SLRs too, often goes on about all the ISO # stuff to me
<daftykins> well in the true modern style nothing ever gets printed :)
<ball> I use Ilford 400 film. 400 is my ISO. ;-)
<daftykins> just dumped to disk and maybe viewed on screen
<ball> I suppose if you're taking photographs for Web sites or something that might be ok.
<ball> ...or to email to distant relatives.
<daftykins> which way would be ok?
<daftykins> images should never be emailed :)
<ball> daftykins: Why's that?
<ball> Because they double in size when you attach them? ;-)
<daftykins> wasn't designed for it, just bad netiquette as well
<ball> daftykins: I understand but in practice very few people know or care.
<daftykins> oh yeah, they need some education :>
<ball> ...but you can email a link to a download.
<daftykins> it's quite funny seeing a client getting links to picasa from a guy that's managing his property refurbishment down in Spain right now
<daftykins> the links aren't working :D
<daftykins> "this one works for me" the guy says, he showed me it and i had to point out that well, of course it will if you're logged in as the owner... :D
<ball> I've never used Picasa
<daftykins> i thought i'd read Google were shuttering it
<daftykins> yeah... they are
<daftykins> oh it's become the main Google Photos instead, ok
<ball> Ah, I've used that one.
 * ball thinks about buying a new hard disk drive
<daftykins> out of space?
<ball> daftykins: No, I'm getting disk errors from the one I installed.
<ball> It /might/ be because the case wants it installed upside down or it might just be a crummy old disk drive.
<ball> If I buy a 2.5" SATA disk I can mount it the right way up.
<daftykins> checked the ol' SMART table with smartctl?
<ball> Yes. Let me check it again now.
<ball> I get green lights all the way down and 0 reallocated sectors.
<ball> Temp is +27C
<ball> Write error rate is 1805
<ball> ...which is odd.
<ball> power-on hours 12,798
<ball> ...that's less than two years.
<ball> Perhaps I just need new cables or it doesn't like being upside down.
<daftykins> nothing for current, pending or remapped sectors?
<ball> Current pending sector 539.
<ball> Offline uncorrectable 160
<daftykins> oh dear, she's toast
<ball> 0 remapped.
<daftykins> yip that one needs to go to the great electronic graveyard
<ball> daftykins: Oh good. I'll wipe it and throw it away then.
<ball> I have a 7200 RPM 2.5" 500G disk picked out.
<ball> I suppose I could order that tomorrow.
<ball> brb
<daftykins> so small!
<ball> daftykins: No real benefit to a 1.8" in this case ;-)
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> i actually have been given a Sony VAIO TT21 by a client for decommissioning, it contains a 1.2" SSD
<ball> If I go with 2.5" Vs. 3.5", I can at least put the disk the right way up.
<daftykins> i can't argue with that, i feel weird mounting drives in odd positions - a lot of Dells i've put in for folk have them sideways o0
<ball> It used to be that the manufacturers had approved orientations: upright or on one side but not upside down or on end.
<ball> ...I date back to MFM and RLL drives though so that may be old information.
<daftykins> makes sense to me
<ball> hello knightwise
<ball> Goodnight everyone.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3`> No, it's not out yet!
<popey> penguin42: that one line fix has stopped the flicker
<popey> thank you
<MartijnVdS> popey: which fix?
<penguin42> popey: Wahey!
<penguin42> popey: I'm an expert voodoo programmer
<zmoylan-pi> !isitcompiledyet
<popey> MartijnVdS: uh, train_set_valid = true; set to false
<popey> rebuilt kernel, installed no blanking flicker
<MartijnVdS> popey: ah :) For me the enable_fbc thing worked well enough (on last year's XPS 13 Developer edition)
<popey> what kind of flickering were you getting
<popey> I have two separate issues
<popey> random black screen blanking periodically, fixed by above
<popey> random flickering in chrome/chromium
<penguin42> popey: Is the flicker something just within the drawing area or the screen as a whole?
<zmoylan-pi> doesn't chrome have hidden options to change how it handles video display?
<MartijnVdS> I had random full screen flickers, sort of "out of sync" for a fraction of a second
<popey> penguin42: which one? :)
<penguin42> popey: The chrome one
<popey> MartijnVdS: yeah, same here
<popey> penguin42: blocks of the screen
<MartijnVdS> but since 4.4/4.5 it's fine for me with default settings
<popey> like a tile here/there
<popey> MartijnVdS: tried 4.6, still broken here
<MartijnVdS> (Debian testing)
<MartijnVdS> popey: which model do you have?
<popey> T450
<MartijnVdS> Ah not a Dell
<MartijnVdS> There are so many weird small issues with new Intel chips lately
<popey> yup
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: popey needs to have a nipple to keep him happy
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: xD
<MartijnVdS> I really love my XPS
<penguin42> the t450 also has 3 real pad buttons as well I think which is a big plus
<MartijnVdS> I just use 1/2/3 finger taps
<MartijnVdS> And I've disabled the touch screen too because .. dirty screen
<penguin42> the other day I saw someone using a touchscreen in a text editor surprisingly effectively
<awilkins> So : now snappy is a part of Wily : what should I use it for? Currently still using apt for most things.
<awilkins> Well, everything AFAIA
<popey> ali1234: did we find out what's new in the pi3?
<ali1234> the pi zero? no
<popey> er, new pi zero
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> two weeks
<ali1234> new information: connectors won't move
<zmoylan-pi> unless you have a hammer...
<daftykins> hrmm my favourite choice kornbluth seems to be having issues today
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/721786968795820033
<zmoylan-pi> still part of the path then they laugh at you, then you win... :-)
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/721790151026810880
<daftykins> that clip is so apt XD
<diddledan> you mean, git apply; ./configure; make; make install!
<daftykins> what was it that xubuntu was doing for me on a laptop, something that really goes against the basic use of a portable machine
<zmoylan-pi> it worked? :-P
<daftykins> nope!
<diddledan> it wasnât hibernating?
<zmoylan-pi> see i can't abide using suspend or hibernate.  for me a laptop is either on or off and nary another mode is tolerated... :-)
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: couldn't agree more, don't do all these silly power states
<diddledan> what movie is this clip from? https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/721791105474297857
<zmoylan-pi> if it's suspend and it's in my bag there's a small chance the fan will come on and suck some dust or crap in my bag into the laptop. and hibernate just took forever when i tried it on windows and the few times on linux...
<daftykins> you haven't owned an SSD yet have you? :)
<daftykins> either way it's not worth the disk writes
<daftykins> diddledan: got the replacement Surface Pro 4 back, turned it on to find it had the 10240 Win10 build on - ugh, fully reinstalled and still suffers from battery drain when in sleep
<daftykins> totally useless devices until they properly fix that
 * zmoylan-pi misses my psions... now they did power right...
<zmoylan-pi> press on, psion ready, press off psion goes asleep and waits
<zmoylan-pi> palm worked as well...
<daftykins> quite liked my 3c :) got it as a kid wanting a laptop but having no money, though
<zmoylan-pi> the reason i got the psion 3a was that i couldn't afford a laptop
<zmoylan-pi> and it fitted in my pocket
<zmoylan-pi> and had a decent battery life, keyboard, software, community...
<daftykins> solid state software!
<zmoylan-pi> os, apps, development in rom running multitasking in 512k used as ram AND storage
<daftykins> back later perhaps, if kornbluth sorts itself out :)
<diddledan> I don't know what kornbluth is
<zmoylan-pi> a webservice of some kind?
<diddledan> http://www.geek.com/microsoft/microsoft-was-serious-about-linux-apps-running-natively-on-windows-10-1652205/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-10
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> downloaded ubuntu gnome 17.04RC  for a play
<brobostigon> :)
<MooDoo> morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Golfer's Day! ð  ð â³
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure trump will tweet about it
<SuperMatt> don't care for golfing, just want to dance ð ð¯
<foobarry> wonder when screen will support unicode :(
<SuperMatt> Does it not?
<foobarry> not here
<foobarry> i got a golf putter, but also lots of ??
<SuperMatt> I'm using byobu, and that's fine, but I think byobu is based on tmux
<foobarry>  ï¿½
<foobarry> gnome shell doesn't seem to have evolved much in 3 yrs
<SuperMatt> uhhh, I think it has
<foobarry> how?
<foobarry> i've only had cursory look so far
<SuperMatt> The usability of it is considerable better now that it was a few years back. Moving the notifications to the top was a great step
<foobarry> are you using ubuntu gnome?
<foobarry> which extensions?
<SuperMatt> No, I'm using fedora 26 alpha
<SuperMatt> tbh, I don't think the ubuntu gnome implementation is that great
<SuperMatt> for instance, nautilus is gnome shell now has better spacing, but this hasn't made its way to Ubuntu
<SuperMatt> http://i.imgur.com/u0NqxQk.png
<foobarry> is that on a VM? the window looks massive
<foobarry> what spacing SuperMatt ?
<SuperMatt> Yes, it is a vm
<SuperMatt> the spacing between the folder icons there is much better in vanilla gnome
<SuperMatt> If you make the icons that size in Ubuntu Gnome, you'll realise how hideous it looks
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/yHmQw#
<zmoylan-pi> gnome has a non hideous setting?!
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/yHmQw
<foobarry> thats ubuntu gnome
<SuperMatt> oh! They finally caught up!
<foobarry> how can i reduce the title bar size?
<SuperMatt> You don't, I think
<zmoylan-pi> get a bigger monitor? :-P
<foobarry> elementary seem to be able to do it without the massive title bars
<foobarry> but include the title bar icons etc in similar way
<foobarry> gnome looks like its designed as a touch interface for fat fingers
<foobarry> firefox is ok but nautilus is ridiculous
<zmoylan-pi> gnome has looked that way since i first tried it in red hat 5.2... pretty but wrong
<popey> 10:17 < SuperMatt> http://i.imgur.com/u0NqxQk.png
<popey> that looks like a toytown os
 * popey grumbles more about the death of unity
<foobarry> all DEs > unity > gnome shell
<SuperMatt> I'm very happy with gnome because I can work it without a mouse
<SuperMatt> and it stays out of my way
<zmoylan-pi> which is what a de should do
<foobarry> except gnome doesn't
<foobarry> because of the weird overlay screen when you hit super. and the massive title bars
<foobarry> btw i am hiring programmers (permanent), so if anyone knows any, this is more interesting than most corporate programming jobs
<davmor2> popey: could be worse could be windows
<foobarry> popey: that screenshot i posted was on my laptop too. not even a low res VM
<SuperMatt> foobarry: but that overlay screen is ok, because I can still hit meta, type "fi", press enter, and load firefox
<davmor2> JamesTait: you didn't go for siblings days man you suck
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Where and what tech?
<ali1234> popey: who decides whether a flavour can be official or not?
<ali1234> like supposing i decide i can do a better job than xubuntu and i make my own xfce-based flavour
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPyJLRFk_UY
<ali1234> who picks which one is "official"?
<ali1234> can they both be official?
<davmor2> ali1234: Mark as far I know
<davmor2> ali1234: yeap they could both be official but you would need to maintain it reliably for x period of time as I understand it
<davmor2> ali1234: they would just need different names
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity: coding for researchers (mainly scientific research). optimise code and learn about HPC. get your name on research papers. save the world
<foobarry> C/C++/fortran/python/ linux desktops and servers all the way/ github enterprise/ CUDA programming
<foobarry> take your piuck and learn the others on the job :D
 * JamesTait takes notes.
<TwistedLucidity> C - Never used. C++ - I've looked at it. Fortran - Done that many moons again. Python - Nup. Github - used twice. CUDA - Nup.
 * TwistedLucidity is clearly qualified!
<MooDoo> foobarry: isn't that what you do with every job lol
<JamesTait> davmor2, I see what you did there.
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<foobarry> MooDoo: what, learn on the job?
<davmor2> JamesTait: you like that right
<MooDoo> foobarry: yeah ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: hey dude
<foobarry> anyway, job link is here https://webapps2.is.qmul.ac.uk/jobs/job.action?jobID=2191
<foobarry> officially closing date is today but if anyone was seriously intersted then buzz me since there are 2 roles going
<MooDoo> looks great
<TwistedLucidity> That seems like a low salary for London.
<popey> ali1234: techboard
<foobarry> TwistedLucidity yeah but very rewarding
<TwistedLucidity> I thought London was meant to be all node.js ninjas earning Â£60k+ as a fresh graduate?
<ali1234> foobarry: i can do cuda and python
<ali1234> numpy presumably
<foobarry> that would make a strong case for getting an interview
 * MooDoo can make tea !
<TwistedLucidity> 30 days leave is kinda nice
<ali1234> no fortran though
<popey> I doubt there would be room for two xfce based flavours
<popey> I would anticipate the techboard (not wishing to speak for them) would suggest working together
<ali1234> it was just an example popey
<popey> sure
<foobarry> we don't require any particular language, just good attitude and perhaps a penchant for helping people and making things work more optimially
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Well, that's me out. I prefer to point and laugh. :-P
<foobarry> but CUDA skills are a bonus atm as we are on a consortium which just spent Â£4M on a massive gpu cluster
<foobarry> there's so much awesome available
<TwistedLucidity> And you can compute just how much awesome IN PARRALLEL!
<foobarry> all the awesomes
<ali1234> thats a lot of GPUs
<foobarry> might have been a smaller tender for that clsuter. need to check
<TwistedLucidity> <Insert Crysis joke here>
<foobarry> the other clusters were 16000 cores
<foobarry> ah http://gow.epsrc.ac.uk/NGBOViewGrant.aspx?GrantRef=EP/P020275/1
<foobarry>  The architecture is based on ``fat'' GPU compute nodes, with 8 of NVIDIA's new Pascal GPUs
<foobarry> The motivation for selecting this architecture is the huge growth in research in machine learning and associated areas of data science within the UK
<foobarry> loads of fun stuff
<TwistedLucidity> "The machine has learnt that meatsacks are a problem. EXTERMINATE!"
<foobarry> we have our own cluster too
<foobarry> with a few K80s
<ali1234> who's in the consorteum?
<foobarry> the GPU consortium:  University of Oxford, with support from the Alan Turing Institute (ATI), Bristol, Edinburgh, KCL, QMUL, Sheffield, Southampton and UCL is for a national GPU system that will support multidisciplinary science
<foobarry> its gonna be pretty much cutting edge machine learning stuffs
<foobarry> caffe, tensorflow, all that jazz
<ali1234> can any organization use it?
<foobarry> its mainly assisting researchers create their code and optimising it, profiling it to see where inefficiences lie, and converting peoples code to run in parallel, all sorts of fun stuff
<foobarry> if you are a EPSRC funded researcher in one of those institutions yeah
<foobarry> they might sell slices to private sector too
<ali1234> i doubt the british library falls under that
<foobarry> however
<TwistedLucidity> I shudder to think how complicated parallel could get. There's times where more simple multi-threaded stuff is enough to give on a migraine.
<foobarry> if the BL collaborate with reearchers then yeah
<ali1234> books are physical tho right?
<foobarry> just like kew gardens
<foobarry> collaborate with uni and then get access to big compute for genome assembly etc
<ali1234> the BL have their own research dept
<ali1234> they have phd students so presumably its attached to some university
<ali1234> not sure which one though
<foobarry> actually a colleague was just running some word analysis stuff
<foobarry> linguistics research
<foobarry> https://www.bl.uk/news/2017/february/esrc-phd-studentship-continuity-and-change-in-spoken-british-english
<foobarry> thats collab with QMUL
<ali1234> so the BL has 9000 hours of VHS tapes
<ali1234> my CUDA code run at approximately real-time on a GTX780
<ali1234> Â£3M GPU cluster would sure help that
<foobarry> i just rammed 6 GPU in my test server
<ali1234> that description of the cluster doesn't say how many servers it has
<foobarry> i got some M2090 for free after the comp sci group bought 2 nvidia dgx-1
<foobarry> which runs ubuntu i think
<ali1234> aren't those really old?
<foobarry> yeah, thats why they were free
<foobarry> our proper cluster has K80s
<foobarry> yeah there's not much info on JADE yet since its only getting online now. emerald is the existing one http://www.ses.ac.uk/high-performance-computing/emerald/
<foobarry> there is also an ARM cluster
<foobarry> https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/eaps-shp032717.php yeah JADE was Â£3M
<TwistedLucidity> I built a small virtual cluster yesterday and learnt a valuable lesson.
<TwistedLucidity> DO NOT try to start a cluster on a Core 2 Duo with 4GB RAM. Whilst it will work, it'll take the poor thing about ~20 mins to handle the shutdown request.
<foobarry> what sort of cluster?
<TwistedLucidity> Cassandra
<foobarry> HA cluster?
<TwistedLucidity> Just a noddy wee thing to dick around on.
<TwistedLucidity> It would be HA if you had a professional do it. But I didn't pay much attention to how the seeds were structured or consider how a client would handle a node going down.
<TwistedLucidity> Will probably look at that this week. Important thing is; 1. it works, 2. I can connect, 3. I can create keyspaces etc.
<TwistedLucidity> Must admit the whole "The database will be consistent....eventually." thing kinda gives me the shivers.
<TwistedLucidity> And I had to go and look up the word "idempotent" :-)
<TwistedLucidity> "Your update timed out, want to run it again? Do you feel lucky, punk? Well, do yah?"
<TwistedLucidity> ARGH! I put "punk" in the wrong place.
 * TwistedLucidity moves to the naughty step for at time out
<zmoylan-pi> the 5th or 6th naughty step?
<TwistedLucidity> 3rd naughty step, 6th flight of stairs :-(
<zmoylan-pi> was stunned years later when i realised watching ds9 that garak was in dirty harry
<foobarry> i am actually shopping around for a new distro on my work laptop
<foobarry> due to various issues. hope they are fixed in real ubuntu
 * BigRedS plugs Bunsenlabs :)
<foobarry> not for work :P
<foobarry> looks like a #crunchbang
<ali1234> i've been testing gnome
<ali1234> its not that bad
<ali1234> a few fixes and it could be usable
<SuperMatt> What fixes would those be?
<ali1234> put a small delay on submenus
<ali1234> make all the classic mode extensions support multimonitor
<ali1234> add theming support to them as well
<foobarry> i heard that gnome doesn't support different resolution settings per monitor. sounds odd
<foobarry> surely untrue
<ali1234> it does support it, just not very well
<ali1234> eg menus are constrained to the top of the lowest monitor
<ali1234> that's a gdk bug
<ali1234> been around since... gtk+3
<ali1234> that's another thing that needs fixing
<ali1234> Qt works fine, so it isn't anything to do with gnome
<ali1234> xfce has a workaround for this bug
<ali1234> it was reported to gtk like two years ago
<ali1234> still not fixed
<foobarry> ali1234: btw where do u work atm?
<foobarry> or studying?
<ali1234> i am self employed
<foobarry> coder for sale? general make things work kinda contracts?
<ali1234> yeah
<foobarry> actually our current software engineer came from same background
<ali1234> making things work is my specialty... i don't like writing new code
<foobarry> did you study at manchester too?
<ali1234> yes
<penguin42> Manchester has always been good at making stuff work
<ali1234> https://imgur.com/a/Ep8kD
<ali1234> this is the "different sized monitors" bug
<ali1234> it's actually about where the top of the monitor is
<BigRedS> foobarry: Crunchbang died, Bunsen's one of the lets-carry-this-on projects
<ali1234> GNOME and gtk+3 is full of paper cuts like this
<penguin42> ali1234: It aligned the bottom rather than the top?
<ali1234> penguin42: it is aligned to the panel on the secondary monitor
<BigRedS> Oh, is that *still* a thing?
<ali1234> it is still a thing on GNOME
<ali1234> everyone else implemented workarounds for it years ago
<ali1234> the bug is actually in Gdk
<ali1234> gnome bug 764310
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 764310 in Backend: Wayland "Certain menus display at wrong position in configured multi-monitor setups under Wayland" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764310
<ali1234> it also happens under X11 of course
<diddledan> free range eggs: https://twitter.com/jesslynnrose/status/851401937048264704
<TwistedLucidity> ali1234: It's high time Canonical ditched that buggy GNOME and switched to Yunit
<foobarry> is ubuntu gnome using wayland yet?
<ali1234> probably, if you have one of the three video cards where it works
<diddledan> and you sacrifice an oily goat
<diddledan> "in the name of the father, the sun, and the oily goat"
<diddledan> yes I spelled sun correctly :-p
<foobarry> works in fredora though dunnit?
 * penguin42 hands diddledan some goat wash
<zmoylan-pi> i'm sure you could get some at the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_Fair
<foobarry> wow is that where pheasant pluckers go?
<penguin42> foobarry: Only for their Friday feast
<foobarry> fuzzy duck?
<diddledan> I think pheasant pluckers are pleasent
<foobarry> budgie seems ....weird
<foobarry> like when you install xfce on your unity session and the notifications and theme look all wrong
<foobarry> its a weird mix of nasty icons , ubuntu buttons, tiny elementary dock and massive gnome title bars
<SuperMatt> problem is you're using it outside its natural habitat. Go and take a look at Solus, see what themes, icons and fonts they use, then use those
<foobarry> well i tried the ubuntu budgie spin
<foobarry> should be reasonably sensible?
<foobarry> i steer clear of solus due to shifting sands constantly on that project.
<foobarry> until they decide on/finish something
<SuperMatt> I don't know how good the budgie remix is
<foobarry> looking at screenshots , doesn't loko a whole lot different
<foobarry> has the same weird incongruence
<SuperMatt> that's odd
<SuperMatt> Budgie is quite usable, except last time I used it, it had no alt+tab
<SuperMatt> I can't remember if it had an exposÃ© feature either
<SuperMatt> I always use the top left as a hotspot to show all windows
<SuperMatt> and cannot stand when I don't have that feature
<foobarry> does MATE have that?
<SuperMatt> No idea
<foobarry> mate is looking pure gnome2 old school
<ali1234> mate doesn't have hot corners
<ali1234> activities view gives me a headache
<foobarry> ..aaaaand i'm back to elementary
<foobarry> maybe i'll just reinstall and hope it fixes my laptop issues
<SuperMatt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zpgQpdy_fI
<foobarry> well i know what gives the best UI experience.
<foobarry> just experiencing some hardware type issues that may or may not affect other buntus
<popey> I was quite impressed with Ubuntu MATE and the way you can change the UI to look like unity or elementary
<SuperMatt> I'm quite happy with Fedora at the moment, but if Canonical manage to make Gnome Shell better, I may well switch (especially for better graphics driver support)
<penguin42> hmm not tried that, just kept it simple as old Gnome2
<ali1234> the arch cartoons in that video are pretty funny
<ali1234> how many unity forks are there now then?
<ali1234> i've seen about five different ones
<foobarry> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/make-gnome-shell-look-feel-like-unity heh
<foobarry> oh its copy paste of https://kryogenix.org/days/2017/04/05/making-gnome-shell-feel-like-unity/
<foobarry> SuperMatt: any gnome shell crashes?
<foobarry> i remember alt-f2 r <enter> being a big thing in early days
<foobarry> and enabling extensions one by one to see the crasher
<foobarry> http://imgur.com/a/Vvehr linux visitors read more pages
<ali1234> i saw it freeze twice today and i'm just kicking the tyres
<foobarry> thats my previous experience a few yrs ago
<foobarry> on usb live or disk install?
<ali1234> i right clicked on something and the whole thing froze, then about 20 seconds later it restarted
<ali1234> disk install
<foobarry> eww
<daftykins> what did that?
<ali1234> gnome-shell
<daftykins> ah right, is that the same as gnome3 o0
<SuperMatt> foobarry: very rarely use it today, except in cases where I install a theme and need to reload
<ali1234> yes
<foobarry> ali1234: which extensions in use?
<ali1234> applications menu, places indicator, window list
<foobarry> nothing too exotic
<ali1234> all of them are supposed to be officially supported as part of classic mode
<ali1234> but i get the feeling they make classic mode deliberately not work properly
<foobarry> what is classic mode?
<foobarry> new name for failback mode?
<ali1234> it is a set of extensions that make gnome-shell look like a default gnome 2 layout
<ali1234> you get a window list and workspace switcher at the bottom
<ali1234> and you get an application menu instead of activities
<ali1234> you can't move any of them though
<ali1234> and the activities menu can only be on the primary monitor, nowhere else
<ali1234> its what you see in the screenshot i posted earlier
<foobarry> https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/76542419/conspiracy-cat-what-if-cancelling-unity-was-a-plan-to-make-it-more-popular.jpg
<ali1234> lol at yunit folks realising just how much work they will have to do to make unity run on wayland
<ali1234> its going to be funny watching them collide with wayland project
 * penguin42 must try and see if there's any xfce work for wayland and see if I can help
 * penguin42 has to finish some other impossible projects first though
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> the best kind!
<foobarry> probably better to hack gnome shell to look more like unity
<foobarry> global menu sucks anyway
<davmor2> I can haz power
<davmor2> hello electricity oh how I've missed you
<penguin42> ah
<Hurthfoo> Hi. Are there any firewalls that prompt the user to allow/deny on outgoing connections?
 * penguin42 doesn't know of any
<Hurthfoo> Thanks. I've been directed to Douane
<diddledan> apparently downloads are running out: https://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/851519599627575296
<diddledan> get your downloads now in case we run out
<zmoylan-pi> proably limited by an integer counter... once they hit 32000... :-P
<diddledan> 32000 is a weird number to fail on
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> not so much :-) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10558540/vba-macro-crashes-after-32000-rows
<diddledan> I think you meant 32767
<zmoylan-pi> i'm rounding down out of politeness and to flush out the ocd folk... ::makes note of diddledan's id::
 * diddledan makes a point of mentioning that I even accounted for the number being one-less-than 32*1024 because the usual "friendly" binary numbers (e.g. 32768) are actually from the next cycle
 * zmoylan-pi underlines diddledan on list in red...
<diddledan> lol @ video encoding going at about 0.3x realtime
<diddledan> 12.5% done, 4.5 hours to go
<diddledan> maybe I chose too high a quality
<zmoylan-pi> i was amazed first time i ripped a dvd and it ripped quicker than the playtime of the dvd...
<zmoylan-pi> i was so used to overnight ripping on ancient mac mini
<diddledan> was that before libdvdcss existed?
<zmoylan-pi> no i'm pretty sure i still have that on a t-shirt somewhere which was older than the mac mini
<diddledan> oh Buck! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39560646
 * zmoylan-pi resets number of days for a school shooting to 0
<diddledan> you can't rollback your iThingy away from APFS (filesystem) https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/10/apple-stops-signing-ios-10-2-1-preventing-downgrades-apfs/
<zmoylan-pi> no backsies!!
 * zmoylan-pi puts on dab radio to see what npr mentions about united passender handling...
<daftykins> i nearly lost one of the girls today - http://i.imgur.com/Ox3C0x8.jpg
<daftykins> shot out the front door when i opened it :)
<zmoylan-pi> hopefully the moggies are chipped in case they get lost
<daftykins> probably :>
<daftykins> poor little guys are almost on their own for 2 weeks right now as my client, wife and kid are down in the Spain apartment for easter
<zmoylan-pi> cats are fairly resiliant compared to dogs... dogs need company, a cat is grand as long as theirs food, a litter box and a window to watch the world
<penguin42> or an Amazon account
<daftykins> yip, or a daftykins to troll
<daftykins> they have a dog too though :| hah
<diddledan> why doesn't IRC have a +1 button yet?!
 * diddledan just looked for it on daftykins' second to last comment
<diddledan> I been facebooking too much
<penguin42> it's actually an interesting hard problem - you need something to aggregate the +1's and distribute the totals
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> I say we all move to slack
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> there are bots for irc to do that....
<zmoylan-pi> i'v seen them in some channels
<penguin42> karma bots for people, not sure about for actual messages
<daftykins> wow just had this shared in another chan - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9FqD4bXcAAyzFo.jpg
<penguin42> daftykins: Nod, scary isn't it
<penguin42> daftykins: Now, tell me about your mother
<daftykins> Let me tell you about my mother...
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i wonder if they're going to ruin it with the upcoming sequel
<diddledan> they're bound to try adjusting the timeline
 * penguin42 did see it in a cinema for the first time about a year ago, it was great - nice to see it on the big screen
<daftykins> i'd almost toss the Vangelis soundtrack on, buuuut it's already 1am nearly
<penguin42> and it does need to be loud
<daftykins> hehe
 * daftykins pats the vinyl rip
<daftykins> oh i finally got my last quote today btw, Â£11,700 for the bathroom by the looks :| submit them to the insurance adjuster this afternoon
<penguin42> what happened?
<daftykins> water leak
<daftykins> rotten joist and damaged plasterboard amongst other things
<daftykins> discovered it in the new year, but it's taken until now to get through some of the rubbish
<penguin42> ouch, slow leak?
<daftykins> next i have to get quotes for accomodation for me and the cat... plus wait on what they're going to pay
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lq2pz43hvi4519z/IMG_20170121_162824.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> good snap there
<penguin42> seems an inconvenient place to leak - waste water?
<daftykins> both that and the thermostatic valve in the stud wall, yip
<daftykins> oh actually it wasn't really the waste in the end but the wall sealant inside the shower enclosure allowing a leak out behind the tiles and onto the joist
<daftykins> on the 19th i'll have been without a shower for 3 months
<penguin42> ouch
<daftykins> that's why i see the kittens so much, i go up there to shower XD
 * penguin42 doesn't understand that logic
<daftykins> hmm? client lets me use a spare bathroom :>
<penguin42> how much do they charge for the kitten access?
<daftykins> hahaha
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-11
<daftykins> i pay my way by checking their trays atm :>
<daftykins> alrighty time to scoot, things to do!
<penguin42> kittens to fix, pipes to feed
<daftykins> yipyipyip!
<daftykins> haha i got quoted Â£1200+ by the local telco for an analog phone system for 4 users, i can do that with FreePBX on a spare PC and buy some IP phones and PoE switch etc for Â£500
<daftykins> oh Vista is EOL today \o/ glorious
<diddledan> yey vista
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> howdoo moodoo
<foobarry> this channel was dying until the latest ubuntu announcement. funny how that works
<SuperMatt> You should see fedora-uk, no crazy news there, so no one says a word!
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I said morning ;) that's the most action in there lol
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: I could op and kick someone just for fun :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<TwistedLucidity> Can you imagine if tech news was reported like politics?
<davmor2> You mean it isn't
<davmor2> Morning all by the way
<TwistedLucidity> Well I haven't seen "SHUTTLEWORTH IN DESKTOP U-TURN - Destroys the dreams of millions" or something like that
<zmoylan-pi> and in todays news emacs still sucks, long live vim... :-)
<TwistedLucidity> Actually, no. It'd be "SHUTTLEWORTH IN YET ANOTHER FAILURE - Surely he must make way for a new leader?"
<zmoylan-pi> then he takes his football AND money home with him...
<TwistedLucidity> All I've seen is "Ubuntu to use GNOME. Well....blow me."
<TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Difficult to carry both, I volunteer to hold the money.
<TwistedLucidity> I'll just put it in this here bank account...for safekeeping...
<zmoylan-pi> just resting in your account...
<foobarry> YOU'LL NEVER BELIEVE WHAT CANONICAL DID NEXT..
<SuperMatt> Down with this sort of thing
<foobarry> IMPERIAL SHUTTLE CRASHES
<TwistedLucidity> LOL!
<foobarry> SHUTTLE COMES BACK DOWN TO EARTH
<knightwise> DEATH STAR PLANS LEAKED ! YOU NEVER GUESS WHAT HAPPENED NEXT
<zmoylan-pi> who let an r2 unit onto the death star without epoxy resining all it's usb port?!
<Nokaji> Hi, suddenly my printer fails. I have Ubuntu 16.04, and a canon mx925 printer. Error messages include "There was an error during the CUPS operation: 'failed to connect to server'." and "Failed to start cups-browsed.service: Unit cups.service is masked." I can only see 'generic' printer listed also a message saying 'printer rejecting jobs' or similar
<Nokaji> Okay, with fixing broken packages (synaptic) I now get:-  "E: cups-browsed: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1"
<Nokaji> minor emergency ... bbiab 10mins...
<TwistedLucidity> It's 2017 and we (by that I mean, IT in general) still can't make reliable printers.
<popey> Printers are devices for causing pain. They also sometimes print stuff.
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Too right
<BigRedS> It's 2017, we ought not *need* reliable printers
<TwistedLucidity> Uh...yeah, we do
<foobarry> getting "invalid partition table!" after a linux install :(
<foobarry> i hit return and then get the grub loader and continues correctly
<TwistedLucidity> For example, I am going to need a working printer to spew out a few CVs
<TwistedLucidity> And a working printer to pump our a few photos I want to frame.
<TwistedLucidity> Now, some of that I could send to be printed for me...but guess what they need, reliable printers!
<foobarry> oh thats a dell bios message :|
<TwistedLucidity> UEFI? FakeRaid?
<TwistedLucidity> Or actual Old Skool BIOS?
<foobarry> i disabled UEFI
<foobarry> but it seems to be a werid dell issue
<popey> why disable UEFI?
<popey> does the distro not support it?
<foobarry> i was trying to get this thing to work
<popey> oh
<foobarry> didn't realise it was the poxy bios
<Nokaji> pain indeed ...
<Nokaji> printer is one of the best I've had, not that the standard junk provides much competition to it
<TwistedLucidity> Nokaji: Currently your issue isn't with the printer, but some jiggered update (you know that, of course). Unfortunately that online message only says that a script failed, not *why* it failed.
<TwistedLucidity> Seems that somewhere along the way your CUPS install became hosed.
<TwistedLucidity> You might be quickest to purge it and do a fresh install (not sure what files you may wish to back up first though)
<Nokaji> frsh install of cups stuff only?
<TwistedLucidity> "cups-browsed" at the very least. I'm no expert, not had a failure like this myself.
<Nokaji> okay, well it's the only plan I have so I guess I'll try it - might get me past whatever the incompatability is
<TwistedLucidity> But yes, only CUPS should be affected. Don't reinstall your whole system!
<Nokaji> Fine, I don't see what could go wrong with trying it :)
<TwistedLucidity> Famous last words.....
<Nokaji> It's kinda a brute force resolution and I'm always curious as to the precise nature of the problem but right now I need a functioning printer and this offers the hope of a resolution
<Nokaji> 3...2...1... !
<Nokaji> just some slight feedback ... have a lot of 'interruptions' going on right now however I have, it would apear, connected my smartphone to the print so at least I have an option to d/l file to phone and then print ...
<foobarry> is there any way to update dell bios on linux?
<foobarry> on modern laptops?
<Laney> you can write the exe to a usb stick
<foobarry> oh? and then what? flash from setup?
<foobarry> thanks, i'll have a look at that
<acheronUK> F2 boot menu option IIRC
<acheronUK> or F12 even
<foobarry> requires a dos boot usb...
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Last time I looked at it, Dell's position was "Windows or GTFO"
<foobarry> i'll let you know shortly
<zmoylan-pi> last time i did it they supplied an iso to do the job... write the iso to usb or cd boot and go and fingers crossed
<foobarry> :o its working!
<foobarry> unetbootin->freedos cp bios.exe ->/media/blah
<foobarry> thanks Laney :D
<penguin42> firmware upgrade?
<Laney> woot
<davmor2> it's almost like Laney knows what he is on about
<davmor2> only almost though
<foobarry> didn't fix my weird dell problem though
<foobarry> its a terrible laptop. brings shame on the name on latitudes
<Laney> davmor2: fast internet connection -> google -> irc
<Laney> -> ??? -> profit
<Laney> not really in this case; having an XPS 13 taught me that nugget :)
 * davmor2 changes Laney to Jeeves
<davmor2> foobarry: why not try it with uefi enabled instead
<foobarry> i did originally
<foobarry> will try again
<davmor2> foobarry: you just need a 64bit os then with uefi enabled on it
<foobarry> need to install OS again tho
<foobarry> what do i need for UEFI? that bios-grub 1MB partition?
<foobarry> https://www.facebook.com/FowlLanguageComics/photos/a.493300127413692.1073741826.481912555219116/1316068315136865/?type=3&theater
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> UEFI mode, install "file system not found"
<foobarry> with ubuntu
<davmor2> foobarry: Dell has to see a file called bootx64.efi or it can't boot anything from memory you can manually add it though if you have installed it
<foobarry> works with legacy mode now after trashing the whole disk
<foobarry> ah gnome on wayland is an option on the ubuntu gnome login page
<foobarry> my flirtation with gnomebuntu ended when it cooked my laptop
<SuperEngineer> you should have had some vinegar to put on the chips!
<zmoylan-pi> if it had a nvidia chipset you could have cooked the fish too
<foobarry> oh elementary i'm sorry for doubting you
<SuperEngineer> yup - it's a well known fact that fish and chips tastes much better with Elementary OS
<SuperEngineer> but for a superlative taste you need to cook it with
<SuperEngineer> solus
<SuperEngineer> [sorry for swearing / using the "s" word]
<davmor2> soap
<SuperEngineer> hmmm.... wondered why that lingering smell stayed even after closing windows
<davmor2> MooDoo: this isn't funny dude I Can't find Nothing under your linkedin accounts Knows about section
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: nothing heat related about nvidia gear in laptops
<daftykins> very broad statement about UEFI on Dells there too, davmor2 - i doubt it's every single one :>
<davmor2> daftykins: it is all uefi systems are designed to look for that as it is Windows default install file, and most will just stop looking if that file isn't there you can actually touch the file into place and then it will search and find it
<davmor2> daftykins: most manufactures work around it
<daftykins> yeah it sounded like you were trying to say they're all defective, which isn't accurate
<davmor2> daftykins: Dells own ubuntu install contains the file
<daftykins> and yip, gave many years of boot help over in #ubuntu :>
<daftykins> still you made it out to be every single one :>
<daftykins> (being locked to the Windows boot image, that is - which isn't accurate)
<daftykins> preachin' to the choir
<diddledan> daftykins: you can sing?!
<diddledan> I thought that was a children's thing
<daftykins> cor, the days might be shorts weather but the evenings definitely aren't :>
<diddledan> I certainly haven't been able to sing ever since I got facefur
<daftykins> that's no excuse!
<diddledan> oh it is. I scare people if I try
 * penguin42 wonders what that was supposed to be replaced by - a webpage which has [#code snippet_241_queue-it-IGGB-Apply-now-link#]  visible
<diddledan> Immediately Giant Green Balls?
<diddledan> it's an application for something
<daftykins> In-case Giant Giraffes Bomb
<zmoylan-pi> it's the mutant llamas you have to watch out for...
 * penguin42 worries more about looming llamas and mutant monkeys
<penguin42> or perhaps we should worry about the future effect on the naming standards
<zmoylan-pi> they could always use the creatures from the beastiary of d&d... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Advanced_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_1st_edition_monsters
<daftykins> haha my mate that lives in Tokyo these days flew back to the UK for some physics award, they spelt 'physics' wrong on the certificate XD
<zmoylan-pi> oddly my landlord runs a travel agency and they had 4 clocks with times on the wall and tokyo was spelt toyko for 10+ years and no one noticed...
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> hmmm, i picked up a bt shower radio for a tenner... a waterproof radio with bt funtionality... so you can take calls while washing your giblets... not sure the 21st century is going that well...
<daftykins> is that all it does? no sending music to it too from said phone or some such?
<zmoylan-pi> oh you can send podcasts or music from any bt device to it... but i'd end up using it for fm radio mostly i suspect
<zmoylan-pi> ireland like the uk has a reasonably decent radio service even if we all complain about it all the time...
<diddledan> BT functionality? similar to VirginMedia functionality?
<diddledan> huh?
<diddledan> wtf is a BT Shower Radio?!
<diddledan> I didn't know they made such things. telephones they sell badged as BT but that's about it
<daftykins> there's a telco engineer in his shower!
<daftykins> still, he at least has a shower ;_;
<penguin42> some people I know might get higher bandwidth through the plumbing
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> something like this... https://www.amazon.com/Vtin-Portable-Bluetooth-Speaker-Waterproof/dp/B01JP8XRUM/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1491949641&sr=8-8&keywords=bluetooth+shower+radio
<popey> i have this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00T2BJ22U
<popey> good for the price
<popey> never taken a phone call with it, in the shower. don't plan to
<zmoylan-pi> again with a builtin microphone... is there a rash of people making calls from their showers?!
<daftykins> there's a challenge for you both, call into BBC Radio 2 from mid-day tomorrow to join in on a chat show segment with Jeremy Vine
<daftykins> start to make your point then just flick the shower on and go to town
<zmoylan-pi> sorry for the noise... i dropped the soap...
<zmoylan-pi> i'm just surprised they don't do a videophone version...
<daftykins> it's probably coming!
<zmoylan-pi> the marketing department is just so narcisitic that they keep nicking them for /testing/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-12
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS> Goood Morning!
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Grilled Cheese Sandwich Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> i don't have a hankering for grilled cheese but beans on toast sounds good for dinner today...
<foobarry> wow popey started a religious war on g+ by posting a screenshot of whatsapp. didn't realise there was so much strong feeling
<zmoylan-pi> when all the real geeks use aol messenger... :-P
<popey> yeah, weird
<SuperMatt> I'm happy with whatsapp, apparently it's one of the better implementations of signal
<foobarry> popey made the point a couple of times he was just demoing any android app
<foobarry> it really wasn't the point of the discussion
<foobarry> with these android things i get excited then realise there aren't any android apps i need on the desktop
<penguin42> there's a slight danger in using android apps in that people wont bother developing native apps
<popey> yeah, took me a while to find anything actually useful
<popey> scrolled through all the apps on my phone, and the ones I tried, are all x86, not x86_64 :(
<popey> e.g. Clash of Clans ;)
<popey> "apps"
<penguin42> why is x86 a problem?
<popey> still, neat bit of tech
<zmoylan-pi> desktop linux has needed a few fart apps... :-P
<popey> I don't think it runs the x86 apps
<popey> maybe it was some other issue
<popey> x86 ones I installed just refused to launch. might be a separate issue though
<foobarry> evernote?
<popey> foobarry: yup, evernote works!
<popey> and that's x86. neat
<popey> http://imgur.com/a/QUqJ2
<SuperMatt> I take it you're talking about anbox
<foobarry> yes,
<MooDoo> afternoon all
<BigRedS> Good Morniong!
<diddledan> moaning
<Laney> goat mornernoon
<davmor2> go moron
 * diddledan goes
<MooDoo> doogy rev
 * penguin42 has just registered on the mastodon chat system, as penguin42 on mastodon.org.uk
<diddledan> o_O
<Laney> errrrrrrrm
<penguin42> Laney: What?! Mastodon's go Toot!
<TwistedLucidity> penguin42: Yer going to have a follower in a second, pal
<TwistedLucidity> 2! Feel the power of the social world flow through your veins.
<TwistedLucidity> No, I have no idea what I'm doing either.
<foobarry> whats the point of mastodon? what if you are using a server that gets pwned?
<penguin42> foobarry: What's the point of irc?
<penguin42> foobarry: It's just a different distributed messaging system
<zmoylan-pi> it's an emergency backup for slack users...
<foobarry> so its not a twitter?
<zmoylan-pi> twitter wishes!!
<penguin42> foobarry: It's a twitter clone
<penguin42> foobarry: But on a distributed set of servers anyone can run
<foobarry> and set up badly?
<foobarry> oh, phoronix was right about silber
<foobarry> so mastodon is diaspora? :O
<penguin42> foobarry: I'm not sure - my understanding so far is it's the same server-server protocol, but a different client-server protocol, a cute mascot and there seem to be a few K people actually using it, which is a big improvement on diaspora
<foobarry> if i create a foobarry username, it's only valid on the server i make it on?
<foobarry> and every one is referenced by server+username? sounds really messy
<penguin42> foobarry: Yes I think that's the case
<penguin42> foobarry: Similar to Matrix in that respet
<zmoylan-pi> because name@server completely failed for email
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: The bigger problem is that they can't cluster
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Unlike mail where @server might be 50 boxes spread across 3 sites
<foobarry> and what if your instance goes offline?
<foobarry> its a dumb idea
<zmoylan-pi> the second rasp pi hot backup kicks in :-D
<foobarry> and remembering whether you are the penguin42 on mastodon.social or mastodon.org.uk etc is a joke unless basically everyone deides to use one server
<foobarry> unless...
<zmoylan-pi> you can follow stallman on mastodon... none of the other networks has stallman... :-)
<foobarry> on which server?
<foobarry> and how do i know thats the real stallman and he's not the stallman on mastod.on ?
<popey> well
<foobarry> so it will have a massive identitiy problem soon
<popey> i just searched and there is only one
<foobarry> so i'll make another now?
<popey> so I followed that one
<popey> ok
<foobarry> then what?
<foobarry> post pictuers of parrots
<popey> "Founder of the free software movement. President, Free Software Foundation. Most posts by a script operated by @mattl and @robmyers. Email rms@gnu.org if you want a reply."
<foobarry> the only benefit i see is if all the OSS geeks got onto one server and i could read the public timeline on that server alone. but it would soon get tainted anyway
<foobarry> also, its making my fans spin up
<foobarry> ctrl-w and down again
<penguin42> foobarry: The bigger problem is that it's not failure proof against one server failing, so if mastodon.social goes extinct I can't log into elephant.social
<foobarry> Due to exceptionally high traffic, registrations on this instance are closed until quality of service can be assured for existing users. Choose one of the various other public instances to sign up!
<foobarry> lolz
<foobarry> so everyone wants .social
<penguin42> foobarry: The thing is it might have enough people to sustain it which none of the others have managed
<zmoylan-pi> twitter is reaching critical bad management so it might have a chance
<foobarry> maybe if it focuses around 2 or 3 servers?
<zmoylan-pi> or they find a way to nickname servers so they're easy to remember locate
<penguin42> foobarry: I dunno - I don't think it's actually a problem having a lot of servers, I think it just needs a way of federating the userinformation between them in the way freenode does
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-13
<daftykins> kitten update - http://i.imgur.com/ehgUwWt.jpg
<penguin42> expensive tastes
<zmoylan-pi> cats only knock over the most expensive of objects...
<MooDoo> morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 ows it anging youth
<davmor2> MooDoo: Well I've been appier owld man
<MooDoo> davmor2: aye lad
 * zmoylan-pi plays hovis advert in background...
<MooDoo> ubuntu-uk, the channel with nowt teken owt!
<davmor2> MooDoo: trolls are teken out dude always the trolls
<zmoylan-pi> in olden days even the trolls were better....
<MooDoo> ah the trolls....ubuntu sucks ;)
<davmor2> yeah but then you calmed down didn't you zmoylan-pi
<davmor2> yeah the thing is it's nice playing with trolls cause you can be a sarcastic as you want and everyone is on your side :D
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Plant Appreciation Day! ð  â ð· ð¹
<MooDoo> morning JamesTait
 * SuperMatt hugs a cacti
<JamesTait> A cactus! ðµ
<zmoylan-pi> it's holy thursday... which is the worst day for anyone in ireland who works in a retail place that sells booze... every single bottle will be bought today when people realise no booze will be on sale tomorrow because it's good friday...
<JamesTait> No booze will be on sale tomorrow?
<JamesTait> Sounds like a terrible Friday to me.
<zmoylan-pi> tomorrow is when the game begins when irish people put aside their differences and find ways to get booze because they forgot to get some on thursday and exploit their friends/connections to find a place to get some illegaly
<zmoylan-pi> or just get the ferry to uk and have a booze cruise all day
<diddledan> davmor2: sarcasm is always good!
<zmoylan-pi> was that sarcasm? :-P
<davmor2> diddledan: it's Britian Nobody does it better
<luna_> Got an 5Â£ Amazon Voucher that can't be used in Sweden, only UK anyone wants some free money?
<diddledan> although I'm unsure what "a sarcastic" is. I'm wondering if it's like autistic..
<diddledan> FREE MONEY!
<diddledan> SHUDDUP AND GIVE ME MY MONEY
<luna_> diddledan: :P
<davmor2> diddledan: just a missing s
<diddledan> davmor2: like you're slurring it? ssarcastic? :-p
<luna_> diddledan: sure whats your email and i can send it over
<diddledan> ooh, I really getting free monies?!
<diddledan> sweetness
<luna_> yeah got a 5Â£ voucher thing from a Survey i took for an antivirus program, but can only be used in UK and not Sweden :p
<luna_> so i have no use for it
<MooDoo> diddledan: it's a trap, you'll owe luna_ something for ever more ;
<diddledan> diddledan@gmail.com - difficult to guess ;-)
<MooDoo> ;)
<luna_> diddledan: sent it over now have fun with your 5Â£ :P
<diddledan> and now I get spamm0red by all the harvesters trawling the intertubes for emails :-p
<diddledan> \o/ danke *hug*
<luna_> no problem
<diddledan> of course now I have to find something to buy :-p
<diddledan> oh, the agony!]
 * diddledan fires-up amazon.co.uk
<zmoylan-pi> that 50" tv shall be yours... oh yes...
<luna_> zmoylan-pi: heh i guess thats more then 5Â£
<luna_> :D
<zmoylan-pi> he has a coupon :-D
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/gvaireth/status/851687230716473344
<diddledan> it's out!
<diddledan> as of 40 minutes ago!
<diddledan> get your zesty now!
<davmor2> been on it for a while
<MooDoo> !isitoutyet
<lubotu3> Yes!
<SuperMatt> zomg!
<luna_> gonna update tonight :)
<SuperMatt> There's not as much tension in here these days, as they were around 14.04
<zmoylan-pi> we have a big pit outside were people can fight with giant cotton buds...
 * MooDoo just upgraded to windows 10 creators update :p
<luna_> MooDoo: i did that 2 days ago :p
<luna_> and updated to 16.04.1 instead of 14.04 in the Bash for Windows thing today
<MooDoo> luna_: just equials a few days ago as i'm on the preview program as well
<luna_> ah
<MooDoo> sucker for pain :)
<luna_> MooDoo: heh then you will get the Redstone III builds soon :P
<MooDoo> luna_: nah i'm only on the slow ring, not that brave :)
<luna_> MooDoo: heh okay
<MooDoo> luna_: s/brave/stupid/g ;)
<luna_> :P
<luna_> lets torrent some new Ubuntu :D
<SuperMatt> Torrenting's illegal! :o :o :o
<MooDoo>  SuperMatt no it isn't :p
<diddledan> this is a really good use of alexa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUewiOZTNzM
<SuperMatt> MooDoo: I know ;)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: i knew you knew :)
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: then again, you knew that i knew that you knew, who knew right?
<SuperMatt> I don't know any more
<MooDoo> hehe
<SuperMatt> just let me cry in the corner
<luna_>                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUewiOZTNzM
<luna_> whoops darn Putty :p
<diddledan> I said that already :-p
<diddledan> pastefail
<SuperMatt> PUTTY RULES, GNOME-TERMINAL DROOLS
<diddledan> PuTTY is the only real SSH client!
<diddledan> all the others are turds
 * MooDoo is using putty now onto my server so I can use irssi :)
<SuperMatt> I'm in *yuck* iTerm
<diddledan> :-o
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: get our, your like shakespear....bard ;)
<diddledan> SuperMatt: you are a sucker for punishment, using a mac *hides his apple logo*
<diddledan> ï£¿
<SuperMatt> I would love to dual boot this machine, because I get work done so much quicker under linux
<diddledan> is it a work-provided system?
<SuperMatt> yup
<diddledan> gotcha - business hate workers changing stuff :-p
<diddledan> businesses**
<SuperMatt> I just don't understand why someone would hire linux engineers, but not let them use linux as their daily driver
<diddledan> tis a bit nutty, aye
<luna_> is https://ubuntu-mate.org/ down or just my network being slow?
<diddledan> GNU Terry Pratchett all the things! http://www.gnuterrypratchett.com/
<diddledan> WFM, luna_
<SuperMatt> luna_: it's up
<luna_> yeah got it now, just my network being slow :)
<diddledan> Terry Pratchett anticipated the DRM standardisation process at the w3c: https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/852532946237923328
<Azelphur> just stumbled upon this website, https://explainshell.com/explain?cmd=rsync+-chavzP+--stats+user%40remote.host%3A%2Fpath%2Fto%2Fcopy+%2Fpath%2Fto%2Flocal%2Fstorage
<Azelphur> it's like manpages 2.0, for lazy people. I like it
<luna_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2017-April/001210.html
<Azelphur> abundant anonymous aardvarks... I like it :)
<Azelphur> also relevant, http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/AAAAAAAAA!
<luna_> Azelphur: hehe :D
 * ahayzen wonders if there are any Ubuntu UK release parties this year ... 
<diddledan> popey: how did you set-up gnome? just a simple apt install ubuntu-gnome?
 * diddledan listens to ubuntu voltage podcast
<diddledan> I've got two fwupd processes - one using 200% cpu and the other another 100% cpu
<diddledan> wtf? mr sandman!
<diddledan> is that an easter egg?!
<diddledan> WARNING: Microsoft has received a secret subpoena: http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-reveals-it-received-a-national-security-letter/
<technocf> I'm having a bit of an issue: https://pastebin.com/ZjGT5Jm3
<daftykins> and what is 'tlmgr' supplied by?
 * penguin42 tries to think of a polite way of expressing my dissatisfaction with pastebin's ads
<daftykins> https://askubuntu.com/questions/485514/how-to-properly-install-and-use-texlive-with-package-manager-in-14-04
<daftykins> slightly different but seems relevant advice
<daftykins> technocf: paste.ubuntu.com is good in future :)
<technocf> I've returned.  Taking a look at what has been suggested.
<technocf> Almost got it working now.
<technocf> All works now.  :D
<daftykins> was the above link's advice what did it?
<technocf> Partially that, and some more Googling.
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> a mate uses latex stuff a lot for his science research + work
<technocf> I've recently started using it since it looks very professional.
<daftykins> yeah, although i'm certain he spends more time faffing with it and the tools than he does doing his job
<daftykins> "but it looks nice!" ;)
<technocf> :D
<technocf> Just loads of "\blindtext"
<technocf> How would it be possible to sync a directory on my computer with a USB transferring the newest files either way?
<penguin42> pair of rsync's ?
<technocf> I'll take a look at that.
<technocf> Heard of it vaguely before but never used it.
<penguin42> technocf: The only thing to be careful of is the / on the first arg  - rsync -av foo bah  is different from  rsync -av   foo/ bah
<daftykins> would recommend using something a bit more robust than a flash drive if that's what you meant
<diddledan> there's an application called unison which will do two-directional rsync
<technocf> Now that I think of it, probably just best to work directly on the USB.
<daftykins> technocf: oh god no it's not
<technocf> Or I may try what diddledan just said.
<daftykins> asking for trouble
<technocf> daftykins: Why not?
<technocf> diddledan: unison looks like a good piece of software.  Will definitely be using that in the future.
<daftykins> just the way USB storage works, flash drive or otherwise... you should never work directly from it
<technocf> Okay.  I'll use unison.  :)
<diddledan> "WSL is used by over half a million people each month"
<diddledan> ref: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/wsl/2017/04/11/testing-the-windows-subsystem-for-linux/
<technocf> Using that on my Dell XPS 13 since I don't dare try to dual boot and break it.  The UEFI aspect of it makes it scary that I may never get it working again.
<daftykins> technocf: i own an XPS 13 9350 myself and many others in here run them with *buntu, as does my Physics research friend - it's easy.
<technocf> daftykins: I'm fine with this setup.
<daftykins> ok, just telling you it's wrong to think UEFI is a barrier
<MartijnVdS> uefi makes dual booting easier than before
<technocf> MartijnVdS: I found it made it more difficult dual booting my desktop with: Linux and Gaming OS (Windows... *washes hands*)
<diddledan> I tried googling earlier to see if anyone had made a UEFI thingy for a firmware-style BASIC interpreter (similar to the way that old micros came with a BASIC in ROM, only loaded early by the UEFI off disk instead of from ROM)
<daftykins> gaming on a laptop with intel only graphics L O L
<diddledan> I couldn't find anything :-(
<technocf> No, a desktop with Nvidia graphics.  :P
<daftykins> that's more like it
 * diddledan nvidiises
<diddledan> that sounds nasty
<technocf> :D
 * diddledan nvidiises daftykins . quite hard.
 * daftykins has the local police launch an investigation over historic nvidiising by diddledan 
<technocf> Never tried it since I don't own one.  But Ubuntu on Ryzen?
<daftykins> what of it?
<diddledan> it'll work. might not be well optimised for a while yet though
<technocf> Does it perform better than on Intel.
 * penguin42 has seen various reviews that seem to say 'it depends'
<daftykins> that question is already flawed given you'd have to have two identically matched chips to compare between, but they have different core counts
<technocf> Will we have a64 and i64 releases in the future?
<diddledan> no
<daftykins> no, because all CPUs run x86-64
<technocf> Okay
<daftykins> you know AMD already have 64-bit chips right?
<diddledan> ia64 is itanium, and dead.
<daftykins> in fact they launched first :)
<technocf> Don't really do much research into it.
<diddledan> amd64 is the 64bit we use everywhere on x86
<diddledan> even on intels
<penguin42> yes because Intel were still trying to convince people to buy Itaniums while AMD was walking away with selling 64bit x86s
<diddledan> intel tried to reinvent the architecture of the PC but AMD chose to retain backasswards compatibility. AMD won
<technocf> Will amd64 not get confusing to newcomers who would maybe also expect int64 since it would look like that was aimed at AMD?
<diddledan> no, because we use the term x86_64 these days
<daftykins> technocf: welcome to the support channels and new users for the last 15+ years
<daftykins> diddledan: nah users definitely come in asking where the intel 64-bit build is XD
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> true
<technocf> Ah, it already happens.
<diddledan> what about the 68k_64?
<diddledan> motorola is the futur
<daftykins> "The first AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was released in April 2003."
<technocf> diddledan: Never hurd of that.
<technocf> Anyone tried hurd?
<diddledan> ppc_64 also, but that's not as good as the 68k arch :-p
<daftykins> i was herding kittens again earlier
<diddledan> daftykins: \o/
 * diddledan cuddles teh kittehs
<daftykins> their cleaner was complaining to me about how much mess they make XD
<diddledan> kittykuddle ftw
<technocf> :D
<technocf> Greatest invention of mankind: https://github.com/nvbn/thefuck
<daftykins> i thought i was being all on the ball before, showered there, then closed the door - later i hear MIAOW, MIAOW
<daftykins> she'd gone and snuck in via teleportation again i swear!
<diddledan> :-D
<daftykins> hmm not very appropriate link for the channel, technocf
<technocf> I soz
<diddledan> grr @ planned-parenthood being attacked by Trumpet
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/TransEquality/status/852610620616605696
<technocf> I'm surprised git isn't installed by default in Ubuntu Gnome 16.04.2
<daftykins> i'm not
<technocf> Why's that?
<penguin42> dev tools aren't installed by default
<daftykins> I see Planet Earth II is out on 4K bluray now, that'd totally be worth trying out :O
<technocf> gcc was preinstalled though...
<daftykins> !info gcc xenial
<lubotu3> gcc (source: gcc-defaults (1.150ubuntu1)): GNU C compiler. In component main, is optional. Version 4:5.3.1-1ubuntu1 (xenial), package size 5 kB, installed size 44 kB
<daftykins> optional - usually isn't
<daftykins> typically you throw on build-essential for that kinda stuff
<technocf> Well, I tried it when I first installed from the DVD and it was there.
<daftykins> *shrug* i'm not gonna lose any sleep over it
<technocf> Not trying to argue :(, just thought it interesting that gcc was there but no git.
<daftykins> i'm not even a dev and that's obvious to me
<penguin42> technocf: Hmm I'm curious why gcc was - are you using zfs or something?
<penguin42> technocf: Anyway, it'll prrobably have been pulled in for something specific is my guess
<technocf> penguin42: No, ext4.
<technocf> Maybe I did install it as a dependency for something and didn't realise.
<daftykins> makes sense
<diddledan> any DKMS drivers will pull gcc
<technocf> It's a UEFI install.
<daftykins> that shouldn't change anything
<technocf> I dunno' then.  Nevermind.
<technocf> I was wondering if anyone else in here has used the editor "micro".
<daftykins> diddledan: my client that got an iMac a couple of years ago for home has pretty much decided to abandon it since i got him an XPS 13 laptop for other uses, earlier he'd been after replacing it with a Windows all in one - which i was dead against :>
<daftykins> gonna push for just springing for a Win 10 license now :>
<diddledan> "the NES classic is awesome. Everyone loves it. Let's EOL it." https://twitter.com/SirTapTap/status/852615574068891648
<diddledan> seriously, WTF, Nintendo?!
<daftykins> idiots enabling scalpers yet again
<diddledan> macos on a raspi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvAAzRbNj5s
<daftykins> horrific :P
<zmoylan-pi> that's the sort of thing that will release a steve jobs zombie loose upon the earth :-P
<zmoylan-pi> and nintendo released the classic to keep their name alive... but don't need it now that the switch hasn't bombed
<daftykins> mmm don't think so, folk still wanted access to the older gen stuff
<daftykins> though the Wii/Wii U and likely soon, Switch have emulator features they're typically inferior
<zmoylan-pi> and of course nintendo fans want access to older stuff... nintendo is the nostalgia king of the electronic gaming universe
<daftykins> there was a funny piece that explained how the ROM for a Mario title on the Wii's virtual console is actually a pirated download instead of sourced directly :D
<diddledan> oops
<zmoylan-pi> it was either that or find a backup tape with copy of original rom...
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyCYva9DhsI
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be interesting to see if they slow down the release of nintendo games on ios and android now that switch seems to be doing well
 * diddledan worries: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-may-launch-strike-if-north-korea-reaches-nuclear-n746366
<zmoylan-pi> just as long as 2 crazy leaders don't end up facing each other down waiting for the other to blink... oh...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-14
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Well it's a bit weird
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: If both sides weren't crazy it would be safe
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: If one side is crazy the worry is they might attack the other
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: But if both sides are crazy enough to attack the other and they know it, does that make them stop?
<zmoylan-pi> only if one of the generals says bugger this and assumes command to stop starting a war that could engulf the planet...
<diddledan> I believe this might be pertinent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T2uBeiNXAo
<zmoylan-pi> hurray, we can ignore the warning from the monolith about europa now...  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39592059
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Wasn't 2001's book written based on Saturn ?
<zmoylan-pi> original book was based on saturn, film went for jupiter, all sequels of the book went with jupiter
<penguin42> so maybe the original book was right....
<zmoylan-pi> well it's clarke so he's always right
<penguin42> true
<zmoylan-pi> from his ereader on the flight up in 2001 to the wearable with notifications in 2010 to massive illegaly copied movies been traded on external drives in 2061
<penguin42> oh I dont remember most of those details
<zmoylan-pi> he littered his books with 1-2 line references to technology that we now find familiar...
<penguin42> what was his hit rate - I mean were there lots of others that didn't happen?
<zmoylan-pi> i don't think anyone has kept track of such things... it would require someone to read all of asimovs work and that would take a few years just to track them all down never mind read them
<penguin42> s/asimov/clark/ ?
<diddledan> why asimov?
<diddledan> surely clark
<diddledan> is your brain being flatulant?
<zmoylan-pi> well if they start with clarke it will take years but you'd also have to start doing all the golden age writers then, no?
 * penguin42 was really just asking about 20xx
<zmoylan-pi> 2001 -  'he would plug his foolscap-sized Newspad into the ship's information circuit and scan the latest reports from Earth. One by one he would conjure up the world's major electronic papers; '
<penguin42> nice
<zmoylan-pi> 2010 - 'when a gentle tickling on Floyd's wrist announced an incoming call. He tapped the slim metal band to quench the silent alarm and forestall the audible one, then walked to the nearest of the comsets scattered around the room.'
<zmoylan-pi> 2061 - 'There was certainly no truth in the persistent rumour that he had made his first fortune throughthe famous shoe-box-sized pirate edition of the Library of Congress.'
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/7303/7303-h/7303-h.htm#36 from 1897
<diddledan> what is it about australians all being called dave? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynyO3O3zd3E
 * daftykins wonders if it's EEVBlog Dave
<diddledan> Dave Airlie
<diddledan> of RedHat
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> what's with you and your late night learning? :)
<diddledan> they needed HDMI, so he made:  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/KJHdAKnI/
<diddledan> that looks to be mini-dp to dp to dvi to hdmi
<daftykins> ja looks right
<diddledan> just put dinner (pizza, what else) in the oven
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what else is what i had tonight, kievs and rice \o/
<diddledan> nice
<penguin42> diddledan: Except that he's Irish
<diddledan> penguin42: shush. it's on linux.conf.au's youtube!
 * diddledan wonders whether shauno will ever return
 * zmoylan-pi looks guilty...
<diddledan> when the related image gets it so wrong: https://cl.ly/2D0S0034160f
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: yeah, feel bad! ;)
<daftykins> diddledan: have you both talked since?
<diddledan> nope
<diddledan> haven't seen him
<daftykins> :O
<penguin42> diddledan: I've noticed some very fun wrong picture captioning on g.news a few months back
<daftykins> does he not linger in #ubuntu-server anymore?
<diddledan> looks like he's online. only in #docker now
<daftykins> Mass Effect had me reading about this earlier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale
<diddledan> perhaps he's quit freenode almost completely
<daftykins> such was our teasing of fruity tech
<diddledan> aah the kardashev scale
<diddledan> I think my beard is class ii civilisation
<penguin42> diddledan: Mine just runs on crumbs
<daftykins> :>
<zmoylan-pi> he'll be back when apple don't do stupid things... he may be some time... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> saw my first in the wild apple watch last week.  wow i thought my nuband fitness wearable was ugly...
<daftykins> what's funny is standing behind someone that's wearing one on a bus (as i did from a plane flight) - it keeps thinking it's being tilted for a viewing so keeps turning on
<penguin42> I didn't think they looked that bad
<penguin42> I've started seeing people with the wireless earbuds - those look a little odd; I'm keeping an eye out for when I find the first lost one
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> it's ok they can buy little accessories that hang them around their ears if they fall!
<penguin42> hmm
<daftykins> i'm laughing about that of course, i'd rather a cable any day :>
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> i've only once gotten hooked on a plane seat when walking out and been helped by a fellow passenger...
<daftykins> ooh reminds me, at some point i need to try and select a more comfortable set of plugs for my Shures
<daftykins> maybe i should try one of these funny sets for moulding to my ears :D
<zmoylan-pi> i have gotten used to bt headphones for listening to podcasts but then i can't use the fm radio on my phone...
<technocf> Sigh. Why is it that I do my best work at such late hours.
<zmoylan-pi> no one taps you on shoulder every five minutes and asks what time is it
<technocf> zmoylan-pi: Could have something to do with it.
<technocf> zmoylan-pi: Doesn't help that my keyboard is so loud though.
<daftykins> mechanicals are for glorious typing comfort and occasional self defence
<technocf> daftykins: I do love my Daskeyboard.
<daftykins> mine started dropping keys but kinda warms up after a few mins in, very odd situation
<technocf> To indent or not to indent, that is the question. In LaTeX that is.
<zmoylan-pi> you can experiment with cherry keyboards they seem to have models that suit everyone
<technocf> I really would like a Happy Hacking keyboard.
<zmoylan-pi> but mechanical keyboards all the way... i don't want to have to update the firmware on a keyboard
<technocf> zmoylan-pi: "update the firmware on a keyboard" say what?
<daftykins> it's real
<zmoylan-pi> more and more modern keyboards are now little computers all by themselves https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/firmware-upgrade--truly-ergonomic-mechanical-keyboard
<zmoylan-pi> which is just wrong as far as i'm concerned
<technocf> Didn't know that was a thing that existed, or even needed to.
<daftykins> i remember a few years back that security researcher Moxie had his machine seized at an airport, he dumped it after that as he said 'although nothing appeared tampered with, they could've replaced the keyboard firmware or anything'
<technocf> Writing a document and I can't decide on something.  In the context of applying CSS in-line styles to a HTML element which looks the best?  https://paste.ubuntu.com/24378043/
<zmoylan-pi> you can use glitter nail polish on screws to see if devices was opened but you'd have to put some sort of tag on the usb cable to see it were connected to something
<daftykins> assuming security folk don't have them epoxy filled ;)
<technocf> Well then.
<daftykins> hmm new Gorillaz stuff seems absolutely pants
<technocf> daftykins: Haven't listened to it yet.
<technocf> Any ideas on what I posted?  https://paste.ubuntu.com/24378043/
<daftykins> i'd have responded the first time if so
<technocf> Okay. Sorry. :(
<daftykins> bed time methinks
<technocf> Goodnight.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<technocf> \o
<technocf> Whats the name of notation that is used in javascript for accessing an item at an index.  For example: array[42]
<knightwise> Morning :)
<foobarry> !ping
<lubotu3> pong!
<knightwise> hey foobarry , lubotu3
<foobarry> ciao
<foobarry> gonna be quiet in here today
<foobarry> i watched rogue one last night. then checked the news to find US had dropped a massive bomb. certain parallels with the film
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<brobostigon> shop is closed today, so no work untill monday. :)
<foobarry> doing my finances today. putting statements in folders and looking for a decent ISA etc. anyone done the needful on a good cash iSA?
<foobarry> also realised my missis is owed several hundred pounds from HMRC..wonder how many hoops need jumping through for that
 * brobostigon sells foobarry some hoops, lol.
<diddledan> brobostigon: you're all hoopy froods
 * zmoylan-pi pats my towel to make sure it's still there...
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> wasn't there supposed to be a new radio series done at some point soon?
<zmoylan-pi> i think we have to wait for the universe to provide us another douglas adams ::resumes waiting::
<penguin42> perhaps if you feed it a particularly strong cup of tea it'll do it
<diddledan> what could I buy for at least Â£5 off ebay?
<diddledan> just ordered a couple ethernet cables - you can never have too many of those
<foobarry> usb otg
<zmoylan-pi> i think we'd need strong tea AND a fairy cake
<zmoylan-pi> what's the weirdest thing you can get from amazon for Â£5 #missionImpulsePurchase
<zmoylan-pi> or ebay rather...
 * penguin42 suspects it's best not to ask about weird and ebay, I hate to think
<zmoylan-pi> how many gallons of mind bleach can Â£5 get...
 * diddledan watches GoT Season 2
<diddledan> I still love the intro sequence
<diddledan> "stick 'em with the pointy end!"
<knightwise> afternoon peepz
<diddledan> knightwise: peeping tom?
 * diddledan peeps in secret places
<daftykins> diddledan: of the pen? oof
<knightwise> :)
<diddledan> there's an awful lot of naughtiness in GoT
<daftykins> no doubt sensational cack to get the ratings
<foobarry> watches the new star wars trailer
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> link?
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/zB4I68XVPzQ for anyone who wants it
<daftykins> ooh i just got sent pics of the holiday apartments here that i can stay in whilst the insurance job is done on my place ; https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ldt1jczy0kucwjp/AADid0iECbA21SWEqXcZhv6la?dl=0
<daftykins> seems i'll have a spare bedroom, who wants a free holiday to Guernsey? ;D
 * diddledan packs some bags
<daftykins> d'aww i'm gonna have to live from a laptop on a shared connection, nasty
<diddledan> :-o
<daftykins> amusingly it's only about 100m along the road from kitten HQ, though
<diddledan> that's terrible! where are you going, backasswardsistan?!
<daftykins> heeeey it's still Guernsey :P
<daftykins> don't think it'd be wise to move any of my gear just for a month or so
<diddledan> best before dates are a pain: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39595966
<daftykins> wowzer.
<zmoylan-pi> ironically it was al capone that gave us best before dates... http://knowledgenuts.com/2015/05/18/how-al-capone-got-expiration-dates-on-milk-bottles/
<diddledan> *sigh* https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/14/ad_blockers_identify_you_to_advertisers/
<daftykins> well, it's been discussed for years that your own personal set of addons and plugins reveal your identity in a way too
<zmoylan-pi> well weren't some adblockers bought by ad networks?
<daftykins> it's all about ublock origin
<daftykins> don't think so, i think ABP whitelists some ads when paid by advertisers though
<diddledan> yeah, it's ABP that was a shill
<zmoylan-pi> but there is a fork of ublock and one is good and one is not so good...
<daftykins> ublock origin is the original dev one
<daftykins> nice and lightweight \o/
<daftykins> now to pick a holiday pad for my moggy
<zmoylan-pi> is there a rottweiler farm nearby? :-P
<daftykins> if she was a chubby cat that might be a good holiday
<zmoylan-pi> nah... to teach the dogs their place... https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/bb/e6/9f/bbe69f0481396c6689a1717d780bd0c3.jpg
<daftykins> that almost looks like her too :>
<diddledan> <3
<daftykins> heh i'll have to ask if they allow visitation for my little prisoner
<diddledan> love the sign-off on this article: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/13/ftc_discovers_risks_of_free_movies/
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> quite clearly a piece on conservation of water ways
<daftykins> i'm tucking into my first easter egg, om nom
<diddledan> already?! :-o
<daftykins> why not ;D
<diddledan> it's not Easter Sunday yet!!!
<daftykins> psssh
<daftykins> i'm warming up to it!
 * zmoylan-pi rings the easter bunny hotline and reports daftykins for reward
<diddledan> God hasn't risen from the dead until Sunday!
<zmoylan-pi> and the easter egg clearance sales start monday...
<diddledan> \o/
 * penguin42 generally waits for the clearance sales
<penguin42> no point in buying expensive chocolate just because it's got a weird shape
<diddledan> they're less holy in the sales though, so you don't get blessed as hard
<daftykins> brb Easter Bunny is calling
<penguin42> diddledan: So you mean you have to eat more of them to get as blessed?
<daftykins> ok i've been banned from all Sunday festivities, thanks zmoylan-pi! ;)
<diddledan> unfortunately not, it's an inverse logarithmic scale :-(
<penguin42> damn, does it ever wrap?
<diddledan> so you never quite get to 100% blessed
<zmoylan-pi> maybe if you mainline a melted chocolate egg...
<penguin42> diddledan: I feel that I should still be blessed from this haul in last years sale; https://goo.gl/photos/wyKDyFHnpb5pA2Dp6
<diddledan> oh my, you didn't say anything about the golden bunnies!!!!!!!!!1!
 * diddledan bows
<diddledan> my leige
<penguin42> diddledan: Alas, they are no more; https://goo.gl/photos/tgjoYxqKYRzizZmKA
<diddledan> MURDER!
<zmoylan-pi> i'll only believe that when i see a pic of penguin42 weight on scale before and after...
<penguin42> chocolatey murder
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I've got a very controlled diet, it's primary aim is to let me save enough calories elsewhere to eat more chocolate
<diddledan> I don't want to upset anyone, but I just asked my computer to do something and it did. Windows Cortana FTW
<diddledan> (I asked her to set an alarm for a few minutes time)
 * zmoylan-pi inserts advert for winzip into diddledan's file manager...
 * diddledan installs winzip
<zmoylan-pi> i did actually pay for a licence for winzip many moons ago...
<diddledan> really? I wasn't aware anyone had ever done that
<zmoylan-pi> i was using the command line tool version for a daily stacked backup... worked very well... i've never trusted tape backups
<daftykins> :) nah horrible technology, tape
<diddledan> https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/04/nsa-leaking-shadow-brokers-just-dumped-its-most-damaging-release-yet/
 * diddledan rewinds his DVD
<diddledan> yey for easter night yelling match outside
<diddledan> what is it about holidays that make people go outside to yell at each other?
<daftykins> oh dear, neighbourly argument or?
<diddledan> it seems to have gone quiet. should I pop outside to see if there's a dead body?
<daftykins> never heards to confirm ;)
<daftykins> er, hurts
<daftykins> wow mixed choices and confused fingers result in crazy talk
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-15
<ali1234> diddledan: beer
<daftykins> there was an amusing piece on Radio 2 that spoke of easter being a common time for all sorts of DIY injuries due to folks having a crack at something over the break
<ali1234> yeah. plus beer
<daftykins> cue my neighbour assembling some kind of wooden thing with a power tool earlier XD
<daftykins> i wasn't referring to that :)
<ali1234> i bet there's a lot of DIY + beer going on tho
<daftykins> oooh yes
<zmoylan-pi> diy AND beer... darwins favourite
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> hahahaha: https://youtu.be/6filPCtrt0c
<zmoylan-pi> sadly fake... http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthouse.asp i think i first heard of this back in the 70s or 80s. they used it in an advert in the 90s for something or the other... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePi4dieDS8Y
<m0nkey_> Is the Galaxy S7 worth getting? I know it's just over a year old already. I'm just looking for a good phone that's cheap. The S7 I can get for $150 down.
<zmoylan-pi> and you know after a year that it won't explode... but it will get a year less updates than the new shiny one
<m0nkey_> I may be able to get the LG G6 if I trade in an old device.
<zmoylan-pi> so if you hold phones for a long time the update thing might be applicable
<m0nkey_> Two years, tops.
<zmoylan-pi> so check if when the last update for the s5 was?
<m0nkey_> Aug 2016
<zmoylan-pi> not too bad...
<zmoylan-pi> unless a doozy of a bug is found that doesn't get patched...
<zmoylan-pi> so it might just cut short the last few months if a bug is found...
<m0nkey_> My work device, a Note 4, got an update Nov 16
<m0nkey_> I can get the LG's latest G6. There is a minimum $400 credit for trading in an old iPhone 4.
<m0nkey_> I just so happen to have an old iPhone 4.
<m0nkey_> That would make it $100 down for the phone.
<m0nkey_> So, anyone tried the G6? :)
 * zmoylan-pi still has an iphone 3g on a shelf charged for giving out the sms number to those annoying we need an sms number for
<charged> you called?
 * zmoylan-pi tries to insert usb cable to make sure you're fully charged
<charged> lel
<m0nkey_> I just found three ants dragging a spider corpse.
<diddledan> haha. that's impressive ambition
<m0nkey_> I looked over at the floor and saw this 'thing' moving. I could see it was a spider, but as it got closer, I noticed it wasn't actually moving itself.
<zmoylan-pi> not as interesting of the story this week of ants dragging back injured ants to the nest after raiding termite nest
<diddledan> noone left behind!
<zmoylan-pi> they leave the dead and the ones that can't be saved...
<foobarry> cash ISAs are a joke :(
<foobarry> nobody wants my money
<diddledan> you can give it to me
<diddledan> I'll take anyone's money
<diddledan> T&Cs apply
<diddledan> specifically the T&C that I get to keep it
<foobarry> maybe i need a peronal planner to sort all this out
<foobarry> i had a bunch of money earning 0.05% because th ebank didn't tell me
<foobarry> will you pay me interest diddledan
<diddledan> no
<foobarry> still on a par with most banks
<foobarry> do i get a toy or money box?
<diddledan> you get the warm fuzzy feeling that you've lost your money
<foobarry> looks like ISAs are dying
<foobarry> most banks are offering better rates on savngs accounts
<diddledan> yeah, we use PCI now
<foobarry> :P
<foobarry> pcie
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> gotta love that e
<diddledan> PCI just isn't great unless it's pcie
<diddledan> being serious for a moment about money, though: I think part of the problem is that interest rates set by the BoE are so low
<foobarry> and that banks are thieves
<foobarry> flipping you from 1% to 0.05% on an account you decide to withdraw at will is thieving
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> there is that
<penguin42> foobarry: I think they're offering approximately the same rate after tax on both - which is a rip off
<foobarry> there's no tax on interest now
<foobarry> not until you earn a lot
<penguin42> yeh well, there's the problem
<foobarry> oh great. paid a load of savings money from one bank to another. only it hasn't arrived at the other
<foobarry> and everyones off till tuesday now
<penguin42> the phone-banky people are still around
<foobarry> it arrived phew
<diddledan> let me guess. needed to be there for bills to be taken?
<penguin42> or just worried when a blob of money went
<ali1234> thanks for the plug popey
<ali1234> to who ever said "why cant the pi zero do this by default" - it can, you just have to use a normal USB cable
<foobarry> do what ali1234 ?
<directhex_> we added a pi 1/0 compatible repo! http://www.mono-project.com/download/alpha/#download-lin-raspbian
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> directhex_: That must have been a PITA - pi 1 is so uselessly different on the CPU
<ali1234> directhex_: does it have support for raspberry pi proprietary gpu drivers?
<ali1234> mono in general i mean
<ali1234> Qt does...
<directhex_> ali1234: "we have no product announcements to make at this time"
<ali1234> so not currently?
<ali1234> by "support" i mean "it might work" not "we guarantee it works"
<MartijnVdS> Isn't there a sane GPU driver for the Pi now?
<ali1234> no. there is an open source one but there is nothing sane about it
<MartijnVdS> why not?
<ali1234> the gpu architecture itself is insane
<MartijnVdS> ah yes
<ali1234> directhex_: suite=alpha-raspbianjessie sections=main?
<directhex_> ali1234: right
<ali1234> what should i nstall if i just want to run things not develop?
<directhex_> ali1234: mono, at this point, just sees a normal desktop linux target on pi. there might be pi-centric libs on nuget tho
<ali1234> i have no desktop
<ali1234> so i guess this will effectively be command line only
<directhex_> mono-runtime is enough to run hello world
<ali1234> k
<ali1234> going to throw it into this: https://github.com/ali1234/rpi-ramdisk
<directhex_> strictly speaking it's enough to run `gacutil`, the command for registering system-wide .net libs. so that's more than just hello world
<ali1234> is "hello world" packaged so i can test it?
<ali1234> or something else...
<ali1234> directhex_: your repo is compatible with apt-cacher-ng.... docker's isn't :)
<directhex_> try `gacutil -l`?
<ali1234> okay
<ali1234> the postinst ran without any errors...
<ali1234> image size only increased by 19M compressed... that's pretty good
<directhex_> it'd be less without enough to run gacutil
<ali1234> booting...
<ali1234> it works :)
<directhex_> directhex@bubblegum:/tmp/test$ du -hs .
<directhex_> 7.3M	.
<directhex_> directhex@bubblegum:/tmp/test$ MONO_PATH=. ./mono-sgen hello.exe
<directhex_> Hello, World!
<ali1234> i use multistrap so i get whatever is packaged, unless i start excluding things
<ali1234> image is built in qemu/fakechroot
<ali1234> foobarry: listen to the latest ubuntu podcast for context :)
<directhex_> actually, can do better on a per-embedded-app basis with `monolinker`
<directhex_> directhex@bubblegum:/tmp/test/output$ MONO_PATH=. ./mono-sgen hello.exe
<directhex_> Hello, World!
<directhex_> directhex@bubblegum:/tmp/test/output$ du -hs .
<directhex_> 5.8M	.
<directhex_> monolinker is from the ios/android product. it scans an app's symbol dependencies, and removes unused symbols from the libraries it depends on to make app-specific minimalist versions of the libs
<popey> np ali1234
#ubuntu-uk 2017-04-16
<daftykins> haha just saw this on a live stream i'm watching - https://www.dropbox.com/s/318s9h8s4o3b2dw/wiffys.png?dl=0
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diddledan> happy zombie jesus day
<diddledan> some 80s nostalgia: https://archive.org/details/the_computer_programme_ep01
 * penguin42 watched all those when I was young
<diddledan> 17.04 installed! *reboobs*
<diddledan> \o/
<penguin42> reboobing is probably a mechanism I hadn't realised diddledan was into
<diddledan> a fake breast made of tree would be silly.. wooden tit
<penguin42> ouch
<diddledan> I've decided my HTML editor of choice is gonna be Excel (or if not available, Libreoffice Calc)  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/3X8unyvf/
<penguin42> ewww
<TuX_> !list
<lubotu3> TuX_: No warez here! This is not a file sharing channel (or network); read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type Â« /msg lubotu3 !bot Â». If you're looking for a channel, see Â« /msg lubotu3 !alis Â».
<penguin42> can't we just make that return a list of ubuntu iso streams
<daftykins> would be a lot more sensible
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ur1dwvs45peo1nf/IMG_20170416_161450.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> cruise ship season!
<zmoylan-pi> is it ever not cruise ship season?
<daftykins> yeah winter goes quiet :>
<zmoylan-pi> i think we still get a few ships docking in dublin over winter...
<daftykins> oh they can't dock here, not deep enough harbour
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-09
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<SuperMatt> certbot wildcard certs ftw
<daftykins> showed my foreign ways today by asking an underground staffer how the contactless worked, heh :D
<daftykins> pretty neat for some rapid travel, just blooping the phone and on you go
<zmoylan-pi> put on a show and look confused at the automatic doors... :-)
<SuperMatt> I've decided never to use my phone. You run out of battery during your journey, and you can't get back out again
<SuperMatt> I'll keep using my contactless card
<daftykins> ah i don't trust those :)
<daftykins> glad i don't have one at the moment but sadly think i'll get one on the next expiry, in October
<SuperMatt> tbh, because you can't spend more than Â£30, and you have to type in your pin every once in a while, I trust that the banks have my back should my card ever be stolen
<SuperMatt> If more than ~Â£150 is ever fraudulently spent via contactless, my bank is fully at fault
<daftykins> it's more the details being readable by a passer by on the street i'm not fond of
<zmoylan-pi> i thought the current scam was to bump up against people carrying them and nick a few bob?
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> *boop boop* thanks, cya!
<zmoylan-pi> it's not reds under the bed anymore, it's readers under trenchcoats... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> beware of strangers that beep...
<daftykins> Satellite dude that came by yesterday was telling me that he does a lot of wired network cabling for business workers in the city that aren't allowed wireless in their homes, sounded amusing
<zmoylan-pi> so does he sneak in an ap on a timer switch with a russian ssid to turn on and off at random times? :-P
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> these things don't just happen, they require lots of preparation.... :-)
<daftykins> the finest of pranks
<zmoylan-pi> no no, the finest is a gizmo that beeps every 17 hours + random minutes 0-59 and does nothing else.... drop off with a nice new battery in a mates place.... :-)
<SuperMatt> who on earth isn't allowed wireless in their home?
<daftykins> SuperMatt: they might be allowed it, but not when working from home
<SuperMatt> oh, so some businesses don't understand basic cryptography?
<daftykins> maybe it's a catch-all for serious job roles in case someone is still rocking WEP encryption in order to use their Nintendo DS :)
<SuperMatt> using a DS to WFH is a bit silly
<daftykins> no no that's not the device used for work xD in my example it's just the cause of why someones home wifi might be on WEP which they then work from home with a laptop on - and assume all is ok
<daftykins> i can definitely see a 'range' issue with peoples wifi though, in apartment blocks etc... the one i've just put in here goes right out to the road - in fact i should ask him if he wants to make use of that, otherwise i'll turn down the power
<SuperMatt> thinking about it logically, all my packets to and from my VPN server use TLS, so they're going to be secure. Then you add WEP or WPA to the wireless for even more security... how exactly is an attacker going to get through all of that?
<daftykins> i'm not going to defend the practice, no idea of the circumstances :)
<SuperMatt> I just finish it amusing and bemusing when security policies don't match reality or logic
<daftykins> i thought that was what they were there for :D
<SuperMatt> My favourite thing was from my last job, where priorities were completely skewed. We'd have arguments about some services being rw across both data centres. To which I would say to them not to worry about that level of complexity. If either DC goes down, you have more things to worry about than writes to the second dc. Our customer base was doing about 99.99% read, so you just need to put up a "sorry
<SuperMatt> you can't write"
<ali1234> then you find out the customer's bespoke application writes to a security log when the user starts it up, and crashes if it can't do this, meaning the customer cannot access the database at all
<SuperMatt> That sounds like it might be quite sensible
<czajkowski> Aloha
<brobostigon> noswaith dda
<Laney> someone just drove down the street blasting out Sisqo's Thong Song
<Laney> \m/
<zmoylan-pi> play zx spectrum tape loader game at volume 11 in revenge... :-)
<Laney> no revenge needed, I'm rocking out
<zmoylan-pi> booooooo *boop* booooooooo booobledy boop
<Laney> to me this goes with Who Let The Dogs Out?
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-10
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> only a couple more weeks until 18.04 is released :)
<brobostigon> morning
<Nafallo> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<SuperMatt> Communitheme is now available as a snap and all my christmases have come together
<SuperMatt> ditch that old and ugly ambiance theme and join the rest of the in the future!
<SuperMatt> snap install communitheme #that's all it takes
 * daftykins thinks snaps are a mistake
<SuperMatt> For what reason?
<daftykins> dependance on the dev to update components within
<SuperMatt> That's true, but it provides an easier path for upgrade for the devs too
<daftykins> if they're not working on it natively they're probably not serious enough about the platform in a way
<SuperMatt> tbh, I'm not going to use a snap unless it's for something I know the devs are serious about
<SuperMatt> and of course, using snaps can have the opposite effect. You can have a more up to date version of the libraries
<SuperMatt> I can now keep a base on 18.04, but install an application with tls1.3 support
<daftykins> 18.04 won't have that on release?
<SuperMatt> not as far as I can tell. it's in freeze now, and I've just checked openssl s_client and it doesn't have 1.3
<SuperMatt> lemme doublecheck though, it may work
<SuperMatt> I cannot make a 1.3 connection from openssl
<SuperMatt> Hmmm... I think I get better battery life under X instead of wayland. This upsets my sensibilities
<daftykins> wayland still has a long way to go from what i've heard
<daftykins> running new and shiny sometimes just isn't worth it
<SuperMatt> Yeah, it can't do simply things like dragging a file out of fileroller into nautilus in order to extract
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> can it screenshot yet? i heard that was lacking
<SuperMatt> I believe so
<daftykins> aaah finally the day has come for my flight back to Guernsey, at 6pm tonight :D
<daftykins> done all i can here in the London pad
<SuperMatt> did you get drunk in the London pad?
<daftykins> my client took me out for a Thai curry with a few beers last night :D
<SuperMatt> That'll do
<daftykins> i'm told Thai Square is a UK chain?
<SuperMatt> lemme look it up. I don't know the name, but I may recognise the logo
<SuperMatt> nope, don't recognise it at all
<daftykins> hmm if i have a train ticket already that's for Victoria to Gatwick, can i go to Clapham Junction and head there instead... or do i need to stick to going to Victoria?
<daftykins> it's got the 'any routes permitted' on it
<daftykins> 'there' being Gatwick
<SuperMatt> yes
<SuperMatt> you're allowed to split journey
<daftykins> neat :D thanks
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-11
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> \o
<SuperMatt> what's new y'all?
<brobostigon> new or not so new, more paperwork.
<zmoylan-pi> so much for edisons dream of a paperless office... :-)
<diddledan> ello ello
<diddledan> https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/10/17218512/youtube-hack-despacito-vevo-music-videos
<zmoylan-pi> hacking the videos is just wrong... how will the trolls dispense their usual hate and bile when the video changes?
<czajkowski> anyone seeing FF become very slow recently on Ubuntu ?
<SuperMatt> nope
<czajkowski> doingf the same search on FF and chromeim and pages timing out on FF
<zmoylan-pi> i have seen firefox showing this page is slow messages more as of late...
<zmoylan-pi> but then i run the most ancient of hardware :-)
<daftykins> if you've been through a number of upgrades, it never hurts to have a good profile clear-out
<zmoylan-pi> i usually wipe laptops from scratch to avoid cruft
<czajkowski> true true
<czajkowski> it's becoming painful and unuseable this week
<czajkowski> Version 59.0.2 (64-bit)
<zmoylan-pi> 59.0.2 (32 bit) told ya :-)
<daftykins> czajkowski: mmm move your ~/.mozilla i think it is and try afresh, see if it miraculously behaves
 * zmoylan-pi currently downloads 64bit xubuntu for a new computer...
<daftykins> what's 'new' to zmoylan-pi? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> â¬209 when i got it... http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/6734514/Trail/searchtext%3EHP+WINDOWS.htm
<daftykins> ah yes... those
<zmoylan-pi> if i can get it running linux it'll be good enough for me... :-)
<daftykins> i wonder if it'll be one of those hellish 32-bit EFI implementations
<zmoylan-pi> has resisted booting of my trusty 32bit xubuntu so far... so grabbing a 64bit iso atm
<zmoylan-pi> lot of gobbledegook in bios relating to tpm i've never seen before...
<daftykins> mm TPMs are pretty moot for most use-cases
<zmoylan-pi> my gut instinct when i see something i've never seen before is to blame it... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> upto now, to install linux, enter bios, disable uefi, disable secure boot. instert usb key, turn on...
<daftykins> there's absolutely zero reason to avoid EFI
<zmoylan-pi> i like a good old fashioned bios... :-)
<daftykins> it's typically emulated now so often buggy, it's actually less likely to work
<zmoylan-pi> good enough when they came along a few years after i started using pcs... :-)
<daftykins> often fighting new standards gets you burnt in one way or another though
<zmoylan-pi> if it doesn't just work then the new standard is crap... :-)
<czajkowski> daftykins: ho would I do that?
<czajkowski> daftykins: ie move ot to there?
<czajkowski> where
<daftykins> czajkowski: in a terminal, mv ~/.mozilla ~/.mozilla-old
<zmoylan-pi> just rename it i suppose?
<daftykins> then reverse them to revert back
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: on those cheap machines they tried to screw over anyone dumping Windows by doing this whole 32-bit EFI thing a lot of the time, not sure if it *is* the case with that model - but we saw it a lot
<daftykins> standard 64-bit EFIs didn't give as much grief, though some were still hardcoded to look for the windows boot image etc of course
<daftykins> not had any trouble with kit i've used though, oddly
<zmoylan-pi> thanks for the heads up daftykins, i like a challenge... and a reason to hold a new grudge against ms... >:-)
<daftykins> if you buy cheap, you kinda deserve the hassle :D
<zmoylan-pi> it's kinda why i went with hp.  as often as they've annoyed me they're generic enough to work the way i want
<czajkowski> daftykins: ahhhh
<zmoylan-pi> speed difference?
<daftykins> i think that was just the initial eureka :)
<czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: nope diddly squat
<czajkowski> baffling
<czajkowski> and annoying as all my work stuff is done on FF
<zmoylan-pi> or now buried in adverts and popups... :-)
<daftykins> could still be a DNS element to it
<daftykins> are you at home on a domestic broadband service, or?
<zmoylan-pi> is system faster in chromium?
<zmoylan-pi> 64bit xubuntu boots live in a few seconds... \o/
<daftykins> but will it boot once installed to eMMC :D
<zmoylan-pi> that's to discover later... have to pop to shops for a wifi usb drive i have a coupon... :-)
<daftykins> wifi... wat
<zmoylan-pi> it's a sandisk usb drive with a batter and wifi. you can run an app on android and ios and copy/write/stream data to them. handy for when you want to send a few files to/from a mate with ios and can't otg them
<zmoylan-pi> because a usb drive with a lightning connector is more expensive
<daftykins> ah i saw lightning connector + USB A SanDisk flash drives in the airport
<daftykins> *nod*
<zmoylan-pi> so wifi it is :-)
<czajkowski> daftykins: at home on A&A but works fine on all other browsers
<czajkowski> jst odd it's behaving so badly on FF
<daftykins> oh right
<daftykins> czajkowski: might not hurt to try changing the proxy setting, in Firefox settings, from auto -> to no, although i don't see that having any bearing
<czajkowski> daftykins: ah may try that
<czajkowski> thanks
<daftykins> np :)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-12
 * diddledan looks in
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: how long can a nokia golden age phone last on this? https://blog.thrifter.com/iclever-20000mah-car-jump-starter-power-delivery
<diddledan> a new init system https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/wVLnMZnN/image.png
<zmoylan-pi> till hell freezes over, thaws out, freezes over again... :-)
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<daftykins> so apparently my client is at a lunch for that potato peel society movie that's out / coming out (based on a book) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1289403/
<diddledan> daftykins: that film looks intriguing
<daftykins> indeed
<diddledan> it's nice to see you guys in the spotlight, because I think the islands get largely overlooked in British history
<diddledan> especially your history during the War
<daftykins> so nice of you to say, it's so true ;_;
<daftykins> diddledan: my little haswell build has just kicked off today as the CPU arrived - yesterday i received the motherboard and had bent socket pins to resolve - https://dafty.rocks/nextcloud/index.php/s/5Mft7jJas43PXrf
<daftykins> got lucky on it having a BIOS new enough to support the CPU \o/
<diddledan> bah @ bendy pins
<daftykins> nothing a paper clip and a careful eye couldn't resolve
<daftykins> now i'm memtesting to ensure that wonky DIMM slot isn't a problem, though
<daftykins> cheap SSD btw folks - https://www.mymemory.co.uk/integral-120gb-p-series-5-sata-iii-2-5-ssd-drive-560mb-s.html
<daftykins> website is a bit suspicious, after all they're from Jersey... ;D
<diddledan> wat. that's nuts cheap
<diddledan> how's memtest going?
<daftykins> all clean with every slot populated, so i've got a haswell i5 with 12GB RAM now!
<daftykins> a mate just helped me modify the latest BIOS with the newest intel microcode too, as Asus have yet to offer it - so it's now good and current for spectre mitigations
<diddledan> how you do that?!
<daftykins> it's pretty darn involved, he had read into it because he has a haswell mobo too that got abandoned by asus entirely - and won't ever see the 'fix'
<daftykins> he's got some utilities he found on a forum for reading in the BIOS, identifying modules, then inserting the up to date microcode :)
<daftykins> to play it safe, i dumped a backup of mine, sent it to him, he applied the 0x24 fix, then i booted DOS and used the AMI BIOS firmware update tool to force the custom image on
<daftykins> worked a treat
<diddledan> I see AMD have released a load of microcodes back to bulldozer
<daftykins> o rly
<daftykins> did their fixes for that recent news need to also be a platform level BIOS? i think it did from what i read
<diddledan> no these are spectre variant 2 fixes
<daftykins> ah reet
<daftykins> pretty chuffed with that system so far, nice low TDP haswell i5, 2.5W consumption when idle - 35W peak
<daftykins> i might try it out as an HTPC to start :>
<diddledan> any myst fans? http://kck.st/2JxVaGr
<daftykins> diddledan: there any way to tell what version of drupal a site is using from the outside? see they had a pretty major security thing and wonder if my mate is keeping his up to date like a good lad
<diddledan> I think the version number might be in the html?
<diddledan> in the <head> section in the <meta name="generator"... tag
<diddledan> they maybe removed it in recent times though because it can be used to tell an attacker that you're not up to date
<diddledan> which is exactly the same reason you're wanting to check it :-)
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> looks like they might just put the major version now: <meta name="generator" content="Drupal 7 (http://drupal.org)" />
<daftykins> yep looks to be lacking a 'generator' in the page entirely
<daftykins> hrmm a client of mine wants to start a charity thing, seems our registrar offers .org.gg for free, but then you need to sort your own nameservers etc
<diddledan> use cloudflare :-)
<daftykins> ooh a mate had suggested they do such antics as it happens
<daftykins> hrmm kinda looks like a single site might stay in the free tier too?
<diddledan> you can have as many free tier sites as you want
<daftykins> mind you she's already locked herself into wix for the site itself come to think, dunno if that's workable - don't see why not
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-13
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> g'day
<daftykins> diddledan: ever set up any charities? seems to be a right egg and chicken situation, in that Google G Suite wants you to be registered against charity organisations first, but then the latter want you to have your proper email xD
<daftykins> i suppose i could do a forwarder, make it, then go back and switch
<ali1234> yeah, i would register the domain first, use the domain provider's forwarding service, then switch it all around
<daftykins> thanks ali1234 - yep got me an org.gg linked to wix (she'd already set up with them, frustratingly) now i'm struggling to find their support contact to enquire about their non-profit options
<daftykins> ok found it, they hide the contacts
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-14
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
 * zmoylan-pi pokes avis- 
<avis-> hello united kingdom
<avis-> i have a you cannot get root privelleges dirty cox linux fix i did.  its  clamav signature for that virus i also included not root kits and malware,  and other virsues in the clamav signature file
<avis-> theoretically repackaging isos might just be ok to happen
<avis-> that means that clamav and isos are covered for repackaign isos, and further -- protecting while on linux using clamav, they already have that update.  you can get them all in a kernel modules 8167k using Lourdes 8714987695 or product # 81596667609-1 ÂµâÂ½âÂ¼Â½ââ//.080817609...9.60.70.3007.80.909.41
<avis-> thank you
<avis-> from the greek sigma character to the end of 41 is the code, savant laws only, for module and h header.  also to create isos
<avis-> and release patch to kernel.org
<avis-> kernel updates should be regular with bug fixes.   like kernel updates, proven and true, and honest, regularly with correct modules and h headers.   no root is good for a virus signature that is TSR, or runs on algorithim detect.  this is one other kernel module and ready for h header security bug fix.  got to use the lourdes or its clone/update.  came from Atari.  works on PC's :)  81703852561378460371608047601278356802637460275607823560764078
<avis-> 4723615703274623784602735608763407823640786023756786502137657802364078263078563784063725607560827647302356037825637460127423065780264037846072364078620572365078264078364703826578236047607652370657823647236047367835620576304760374602765736407836047865062375672304636472356032767304783650735607826574602364762056375027562374603724623078560276147023460765023756307346078134676507367460231756027853806473267863478246827346327804670360726047364738560781
<avis-> 7862073408275603746037246071236570123567823648073467050735678046374607823657861782346307246708256172385607824678480321652780560782146701647836407214607647082360735602384623746027356702643046073256023746780123463756103756702346734603785623785627814360716324780236578165723601746170284613782560736147034623351648Ï/.07.08.80618.80.915.905/50.70.6  thank you.  have a nice day.  i love ubuntu.  those two, and linux should look great.
<diddledan> wtf was that?!
<SuperEngineer> no point in asking because it *was* that... and is no longer that [darn space/time continium etc.]
<SuperEngineer> continuum even
<penguin42> what? where?
<SuperEngineer> there
#ubuntu-uk 2018-04-15
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> plans for today. walk to local market and have a rummage... avoid rain if possible
<zmoylan-pi> it's ireland, it won't be :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykins> only just discovered that Channel 4 HD has disappeared from freesat, sheesh
<daftykins> apparently they don't want to pay the rates
<diddledan> yeah, sucky
<diddledan> the question is if you can still tune them directly by knowing the service id or if their bskyb variants are encrypted
<daftykins> hrmm
<diddledan> it'll require faffing about though if it is still tunable
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> my ~2014 model samsung upstairs can be set to 'satellite' instead of 'freesat' and get all the channels that are unencrypted on sky, like you say - made me laugh
<daftykins> there's no guide data though so they all get jumbled up in a nasty order
<diddledan> yeah. there's no hand-holding when you use a raw dvb-s mode
<ali1234> thats because of the way freesat is licensed
<diddledan> ages back I got a dbv-s2 card for my pc. still haven't managed/bothered to get it set up properly because it's confusing me
<daftykins> *nod* there are all kinds of ways of dumping the data to a flash drive then juggling it around but - i don't even use broadcast, i just tuned it in because i had the fun of laying and terminating fresh coax for the services in my place whilst i had access to the scaffolding
<daftykins> diddledan: i've been tempted to play with a card in a PC for a backend to share out over the network to Kodi instances... but again, broadcast TV :D
<daftykins> you can get those HDhomerun devices that pop freeview straight onto the network, too
<diddledan> :-) apart from the requirement for Flash for some of them, it's easier to use the catchup services for bbc, itv and channel4
<diddledan> although I suppose the islands are blocked from those
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silicondust-HDHR5-2DT-HDHomeRun-CONNECT-Tuner/dp/B07BFNRGN9/
<zmoylan-pi> send a drone to the mainland with a high def camera and watch someones tv there from home... :-P
<daftykins> nah they're open afaik, but there's that login rubbish now for the BBC yeah?
<diddledan> I've got an earlier model of those
<diddledan> yup. gotta login to allow them "to tailor the service to you"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it's a trap!
<daftykins> you don't get many channels down here on freeview as the channels don't want to pay to cater for the Channel Islands
<daftykins> i wonder if it's the same for the Scilly isles, been a while since i was in touch with some lads from down there
<diddledan> https://media.giphy.com/media/srTYyZ1BjBtGU/giphy.gif
<diddledan> I decided not to use Admiral thingy from Start Warts
<daftykins> cunning, i don't even recognise that one
<zmoylan-pi> mad max i think
<diddledan> mad max's furry road
<daftykins> ah still never seen
<zmoylan-pi> well look at the conditions... no way to shave that road...
<daftykins> hmm the HDHomerun would actually be a quite nice solution for my client, piping them TV down to Spain
<daftykins> not sure which client devices would be appropriate though
<daftykins> ideal if their TVs could tune in of course :>
<daftykins> actually given the VPN is already in place to his London pad, any of the TV based apps would likely do it direct
<daftykins> ooh there's a FireTV app allegedly?
<daftykins> oh Plex too, that might be on some smart TVs
<diddledan> plex'll record, too
<diddledan> in fact that's it's primary raison d'etre
<daftykins> almost wouldn't mind picking up one of the dual tuner models to have a play, just found the amazon app store app for the hdhomerun
<daftykins> clients don't have a FireTV down in Spain, mind
<daftykins> i think they're going to end up happy with just amazon prime and iplayer working over it
<zmoylan-pi> pffft, they'll get a betamax player and like it! :-P
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> will silence any hipsters who visit... :-D
<daftykins> imagine the fun of combing the south of Spain trying to find betamax tapes with the added complications of the language barrier
<daftykins> oh i dunno if i mentioned i used the google translate android app to translate their ISP's letter the other day, that was fun
<zmoylan-pi> you'd put a rasp pi inside the betamax altering the outputted signal to overlay subtitles in the language you choose :-P
<daftykins> with a clever script to detect the 9 o'clock news and pause the subs
<zmoylan-pi> or flip the channel when keywords are mentioned... +++brexit+++ ::flip::
<zmoylan-pi> drop and give him 20... :-( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Lee_Ermey
<daftykins> holy moly
