#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-14
<KE1HA> charlie-tca:  you around at the moment ?
<charlie-tca> yeah
<KE1HA> charlie-tca:  is there a fixed number of ISO point releases for LTS versions ?
<charlie-tca> 4
<KE1HA> cool, and for the non-LTS they dont do point releases correct?
<charlie-tca> Although that could change
<charlie-tca> correct, no point releases for non-LTS
<KE1HA> and for syncing LTS ISO's, if you use the basename say, 10.04, is is ln -s to the latest point release? 
<KE1HA> is it*
<charlie-tca> don't know
<KE1HA> Hmm, need to test that. was just wondering if you sync the base ISO, if it will link to the latest point release.
<charlie-tca> I just sync from current, so for me, it doesn't use the point
<KE1HA> as looking in the release directory for 10.04, they list both 10.04 and 10.04.1 at least for Ubuntu & Kubuntu
<charlie-tca> point only counts if you sync from "release", not from daily
<KE1HA> roger that, current it dev, and I've got my scripts workign for dev, was just working on migration from dev to release.
<charlie-tca> Why? If you have the latest daily, it is what the release will be
<charlie-tca> lucid point releases are tested from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/lucid/
<KE1HA> some folks like to keep a repository for previous release ISO's, so was woking on somethign to zsync them.
<charlie-tca> I see
<KE1HA> that's a good point though, point release testing is diffrent than release, and current / dev
<charlie-tca> None of the images ever have the .1, .2, etc
<charlie-tca> the name doesn't change, only a file on the image changes to show it is a .1 image
<KE1HA> but if your only syncing current, that's dev, and not release .. I forgot about point release syncs
<charlie-tca> You have to download from a different directory, instead of a different file name. Once they hit the mirrors, the mirrors will not all maintain the different versions, some will only keep the latest
<charlie-tca> for any release, the last development image before the release is still the released image
<KE1HA> yeah, it's a bit complicated when for scripting.
<KE1HA> so to test a point release where should your base sync be from, releases?
<charlie-tca> I don't know that there is any advantage of zsync vs downloading for final images of anything. If you have an image, there is no need to zsync it, and if you don't have it, zsync won't work anyway.
<charlie-tca> lucid point releases are tested from http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/lucid/
<KE1HA> well, yes and no, if you dont ahve it, and it's there, it will download it.
<charlie-tca> If you are maintaining all the images, and it zsyncs, it will replace the current image you have, won't it?
<KE1HA> if it's in the same dir, yes, but if you create dir's for the point it wont.
<charlie-tca> okay
<KE1HA> it also depends on the ISO name.
<charlie-tca> they maintain the same names
<KE1HA> like, you could zsync 10.04.iso then, merely move it to 10.04.1 and zsync for a lot less bandwidth usage, but with mv, you'd loose 10.04 base ISO
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> not much point in moving it if you are going to replace it anyway
<KE1HA> so to keep both, 10.04.0 merely cp ./10.04.0 to ./10.04.1 and zsync that image.
<charlie-tca> yup
<KE1HA> I suppose it all depends on how many ISO's one wants to keep on hand :-)
<charlie-tca> but you don't start with .0
<KE1HA> rr on no .0 it's merely 10.04
<charlie-tca> the first release is 10.04, then we start adding points
<charlie-tca> Yes, and each one takes a lot of space
<charlie-tca> I maintain all the active server, ubuntu, and xubuntu images
<charlie-tca> and sometimes, I also add in mythbuntu and studio for testing
<KE1HA> this is al a mute point for non-point releases, which was what I was after, figuring out how dev operates, v.s. LTS point release.
<KE1HA> charlie-tca:  your gonna  like what Im working on :-)
<charlie-tca> I rsync, since my machines are old and slow
<KE1HA> it's not ready for prime-time, but can send you a pre-alfa to ahve a look see.
<charlie-tca> okay
<KE1HA> can I send a file through here, or is it better to e-mail ?
<charlie-tca> email
<KE1HA> ok
<KE1HA> ok, sent it too you. Several of the funcitons areant ready yet, and of cource the docs are finished.
<KE1HA> opps docs are not finished.
<charlie-tca> I will look at it
<KE1HA> its' optimised for a terminal windos size of 130x25 or so.
<KE1HA> I just finished the Selection Function: Main >> Configure >> View List .. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu config screens are working, haven't codded EDubuntu yet. Zync is what Im working on still so it's not codded yet.
<KE1HA> charlie-tca:  also on the Config Menu >> Configure Options is borked still, that's why I was asking about point releases.
<charlie-tca> Okay
<KE1HA> when it's done, all ya gotta do is select what ISO's ya want, and away it goes, or that's the theory any way :-)  You may want to comment on how easy it is to see the menu's, I tried to use High-Contrast coloring.
<charlie-tca> um, it will be a few minutes before I run it
<KE1HA> no worries.
<KE1HA> charlie-tca:  sent you an updated version with some functions disabled and error handling, that way you dont get the trapped error [1] status / shutdowns.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, umm, gnumeric in its present is unusable in Maverick
<charlie-tca> You can not enter relative cell addresses, every time you need to enter data in a new cell, you must point and click that cell with the mouse, pointing a t a cell with data in it erases the entry
<charlie-tca> and, it zips the file when saving, instead of saving in gnumeric file format
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: Is this going to be fixable? 
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I don't understand/can't reproduce the first issue
<mr_pouit> and afaik, gnumeric file format is gzipped
<charlie-tca> but the saved format won't open unless I change name from ???.zip to ???.gnumeric
<charlie-tca> great... When I am entering data, I can not use the keyboard at all to move from the cell when the data is entered. I also can not use keyboard to copy/paste data
<mr_pouit> mmh, it saves as .gnumeric here :/
<mr_pouit> and for the other bug, could you give me a simple test case?
<charlie-tca> Maverick? maybe it is something to do with updates aren't quite the same as the new installation?
<charlie-tca> If I enter =sum(A1,B1) and copy it, the cell references do not change
<mr_pouit> mmh, works here too, if I copy it, it'll set the new one to e.g. sum(B1;C1)
<charlie-tca> nice
<charlie-tca> Well, when the bug reports come in after release, they will be valid, anyway.
<mr_pouit> you should try with a new profile, to see if it's reproducible
<charlie-tca> okay
<charlie-tca> As soon as I can get this spreadsheet finished. I had to install OO.o to get a usable app
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-15
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: clean user worked for the issues I have with gnumeric. How do I fix my own user? Will it require a new install?
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: you probably need to remove your gnumeric config dir (I don't know where it is thoughâ¦)
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will look for that and try it. Thanks
<charlie-tca> I thought I used a new /home for this installation, but maybe I carried something forward that should not have been?
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-16
<Neko> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/640701 does this happen on x86?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 640701 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Xfce "Applications" menu is truncated in panel on Maverick" [Undecided,New]
<charlie-tca> That was just filed what, less than an hour ago?
<mr_pouit> this does not happen on x86 afaik
<charlie-tca> I haven't seen that here on either arch
<charlie-tca> pleia2: I see you are doing the support section in the community pages?
<charlie-tca> Idea - Satifaction in helping someone else resolve their problem so they can enjoy the new distribution, too.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: yeah, but it's actually been months since I've even looked at the page
<pleia2> good idea :)
<charlie-tca> should I add it?
<pleia2> go for it
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-17
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: desktop image testing ubiquity - installs good today
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-18
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: bug 613054 appears to be fixed. The mixer has not been muted in two boots now
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 613054 in xfce4-mixer (Ubuntu) "xfce4-mixer muted on login" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/613054
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: yeah, that was fixed by https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/maverick-changes/2010-September/007735.html afaik
<charlie-tca> Thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2010-09-19
<mskitty> What does everyone think about adding pino as a default social client in xubuntu?
<charlie-tca> It should be discussed through the mailing list. Is it a stable version yet, or still in alpha/beta
<mskitty> not sure but have been testing for months...works great...an idea perhaps for 11.04? ;)
<charlie-tca> We discuss most of the changes on xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
<mskitty> ok
<charlie-tca> We do have pidgen as the default now. Pros and cons of pino vs pidgen would be a good start
<mskitty> both : ) ubuntu has empathy/gwibber...we could have pidgin and add FB plugin + pino :)
<mskitty> pino is fedoras default social...lightweight :)
<charlie-tca> part of being lightweight is that we try not to have default duplicates
<charlie-tca> We have pidgin and xchat now. 
<charlie-tca> What does pino do that they won't ?
<mskitty> yes i am happy bout that...xubuntu has all my fave apps that ubuntu does not :)
<mskitty> pino identica/twitter client...and perhaps FB in future
<mskitty> i wish we'd move from firefox/thunderbird to chromium/midori and sylpheed/claws though
<mskitty> also gpicnew instead of ristretto
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultMailClient
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultImageViewer
<charlie-tca> Feel free to create a new comparison page for Natty, if things have changed from these
<charlie-tca> You can also prepare one for default web-browser and chat client or social client if you want to
<mskitty> cool....yeah it is a discussion worth having thunderbird has a large memory print 30% more than claws or sylpheed i believe
<charlie-tca> Those pages will give you an idea of what we look at
<mskitty> have a good night... :) thanks 
<charlie-tca> memory print is not everything. The fact the thunderbird interface is polished and easy to use counts, also
<mskitty> true..
<mskitty> ;)
<mskitty> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<mskitty> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-12
<knome> probably true, but the core stuff is still the same
<knome> like configuring audio, even if the GUI is different
<Unit193> I'll try to do testing this week (Just read up the past few days :P)
<knome> huh?
<astraljava> Weird.
<knome> ;)
<charlie-tca> Good morning!
<astraljava> Morning charlie-tca!
<madnick> morning :)
<astraljava> Afternoon madnick. :)
<madnick> technically ;)
<charlie-tca> Good afternoon, madnick 
<madnick> :)
<charlie-tca> micahg: do I count if I ack the bug for the release team?
<charlie-tca> bug 847514
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 847514 in python-debian (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Convert Xubuntu CD to dh_python2" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/847514
<micahg> charlie-tca: I think you're a reporter for the release team, not an actually member
<micahg> so, that's a "no", but thank you for trying :)
<charlie-tca> Okay, I will go try and find someone to, then
<micahg> they're just a formality, someone needs to review the build records/debc output
<micahg> no need to go hunting unless it gets closer to thursday with no ACK (would like this fixed for beta 2)
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> I will wait until thursday then
<micahg> well, wed, I'd like time to upload :)
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> wednesday, then
<charlie-tca> Do I hear Tues? Tues anyone?
<charlie-tca> wee
<charlie-tca> freenode upgrades
<Unit193> No kidding...
<Unit193> That was huge! See the +w?
<charlie-tca> Huh?
<charlie-tca> what's a +w?
<Unit193> Global Notice or wallop
<charlie-tca> oh, yeah, I saw it
<Unit193> "* madnick to look into building a lightdm greeter - Postponed until LTS" and" Lightdm greeter theme might make it into Oneiric"   don't seem to match up :P
<charlie-tca> Well, if we have a lightdm greeter theme in oneiric, it will be basically wallpaper, but madnick is writing a complete xubuntu-greeter for LTS
<charlie-tca> right now, we are using gtk-greeter and would simply replace the wallpaper
<Unit193> Ah, my bad.
<charlie-tca> I can it being confusing, the way I worded it, though
<charlie-tca> I can see it being confusing, the way I worded it, though
<Unit193> Eh, it's just me I'm sure.  Would be nice if I (personally) could add it from an artwork ppa (or something like that) later on though. I bet he would do a great job
<charlie-tca> Maybe we can convince him to do that, then.
<charlie-tca> He might just need help figuring out how to do the ppa?
<Unit193> I need to learn how to do that as well, but for other reasons
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-13
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Good afternoon, madnick 
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca how's xubuntu going?
<madnick> morning charlie-tca :)
<charlie-tca> davmor2: Good morning! Things are looking very good right now
<mr_pouit> hey
<charlie-tca> Good morning, mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> micahg: have you started to work on xfce4-dev-tools? (I'm thinking of forgetting about multiarch for now, with the beta and final freeze coming soon, and with the ftbfs & bugfix releases to sync...)
<mr_pouit> (also, the latest garcon release [0.1.9] contains many internal changes, I'm not sure it's very wise to update it at this point)
<mr_pouit> and would remain: exo (fix ftbfs, and sync in o+1); gigolo, libxfce4util, libxfcegui4, xfce4-clipman-plugin, xfce4-dict, xfce4-fsguard-plugin and xfce4-utils (sync from unstable)
<charlie-tca> I trust your judgement in this stuff
<charlie-tca> Let's not break what we can't fix :)
<mr_pouit> let's wait for micahg's opinion (if he has started to work on them, let's continue ;-)
<charlie-tca> okay
<cyphermox> hi, can I bring your attention to bug 844027; I'm concerned that dropping gnome-bluetooth to suggests as proposed would have it drop from the xubuntu image; there may be a need to change the seed file
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 844027 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Consider dropping gnome-bluetooth to suggests" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844027
<cyphermox> AFAICT gnome-bluetooth isn't seeded explicitly, and instead is getting pulled by network-manager-gnome; I can fix this by sending a merge request, but I just want to make sure outside of any doubt that this is what we want :)
<charlie-tca> cyphermox: we are looking at using blueman to configure bluetooth, since bluetooth now requires gnome-control-center to configure it. 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do we need gnome-bluetooth?
<cyphermox> good thing I asked then ;)
<charlie-tca> We would prefer not to have to pull half of gnome3 to use bluetooth
<cyphermox> fwiw, the upload I'll do to fix this will also include a fix for bug 606825
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 606825 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Showing many Dont Show This Messege again" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/606825
<charlie-tca> We need mr_pouit or micahg to give us a reading here. They are much more knowledgeable than myself on these things
<cyphermox> sure sure, no rush
<micahg> mr_pouit: I test built exo last night, we at least need the -m fixes, I'd almost rather pull the whole thing in unless it's going to break in bad ways
<micahg> cyphermox: we can seed it if we need it, that's not an issue, thanks
<cyphermox> alright
<cyphermox> micahg: thanks!
<scott-work> charlie-tca: i wanted to say that i think xubuntu natty is a beautiful release, especially the themeing and panel layout
<scott-work> i enjoy the simplistic window dressings as they are simplistically beautiful yet extremely functional
<scott-work> i am setting up a six core machine to do video on and i am using xubuntu 11.04 as the base for it
<scott-work> i have used xubuntu before (even natty) but i am especially enjoying setting up this machine with xubuntu this time
<scott-work> i am keeping a log of the things that i have been changing and will submit it to the xubuntu-devel mailing list as suggestions within the coming week or so
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> ochosi did the theme for natty and oneiric
<scott-work> ochosi: good job on the natty theme!
<scott-work> charlie-tca:  i was looking at bug 844027, are you considering change network applications?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 844027 in network-manager-applet (Ubuntu) "Consider dropping gnome-bluetooth to suggests" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/844027
<charlie-tca> no, we are thinking bluetooth right now requires pulling in gnome3 for user configuration purposes
<charlie-tca> so, we won't use gnome-control-center
<charlie-tca> we will seed gnome-bluetooth if we decide to use it, but see no reason it has to be there at the present time
<scott-work> ah, we don't want any bluetooth included by default since we really aren't a "desktop" distribution
<charlie-tca> but don't people use bluetooth headsets for music?
<charlie-tca> or am I confused again?
<scott-work> hmmmm, perhaps
<scott-work> but i don't think they are routinely used in studio settings
<scott-work> i could be wrong however
<charlie-tca> I don't know. I don't do much of anything with music, including listening to it anymore
<Unit193> This also isn't Ubuntu Studio ;)
<scott-work> i would posit that bluetooth headphones would be used more for pedestrian listening
<scott-work> true Unit193  :)
<Unit193> We are thinking about blueman IIRC
<micahg> mr_pouit: BTW, I'm with you on no new upstreams, but I think the Debian packaging changes we should probably take unless you think multiarch will break stuff badly (in which case I guess we cherry pick the linker flag fixes)
<mr_pouit> micahg: no, I think it's ok to sync (I tested the helpers - open an url/a mailto from xfce4-terminal, and they still work)
<micahg> ok, I'll try to get it all in for beta 2 then
<mr_pouit> micahg: and the xfce4-dev-tools sync won't cause any new rebuild iirc
<mr_pouit> (because only exo is ready for multiarch)
<mr_pouit> micahg: do you know if https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+localpackagediffs can be used for syncs?
<mr_pouit> (and is it buggy and will cause a massive autosync by accident? ;-)
<mr_pouit> s/and/or/
<micahg> mr_pouit: yes, it can, but syncpackage will now use that interface as well
<mr_pouit> oh, nice
<micahg> the multiarch changes need an FFe
<Unit193> charlie-tca: Around?
<mr_pouit> I'm doing some syncs (libxfce4util, libxfcegui4 and xfce4-utils), and if I'm not too sleepy I'll prepare the bug report for exo (otherwise I'll do it tomorrow morning)
<charlie-tca> Unit193: I am back now
<Unit193> ~4.* enough for an install? The resize screen didn't tell me how large it was giving me
<charlie-tca> yes, we can install Xubuntu in 2. GB if the installer will run
<charlie-tca> I have done installs in 1.9 using the alternate image
<Unit193> You said something about it acting funny at ~3 I think?
<charlie-tca> If you are using the desktop image, and trying to install, ubiquity gives you issues when the drive size is less than 4.4GB, but you can actually install in 1.9 with a separate swap file of 192MB
<charlie-tca> without the swap file, it gets really cranky
<charlie-tca> oh, and it is slower, too
<Unit193> I only had issues with it not telling me how much space each was
<Unit193> I think it's supposed to be a "feature" though
<charlie-tca> wierd
<charlie-tca> weird
<charlie-tca> it should tell you, but maybe it is changed now
<charlie-tca> Is the alternate image working for you?
<charlie-tca> It gave me a missing kernel message today
<Unit193> Haven't testing that yet, going down the line of tests (Entire yesterday, resize today, etc) I could test 32bit though
<charlie-tca> That's great!
<charlie-tca> I will run alternate images tomorrow, just to verify what is working in them
<Unit193> So you would like me to run one? I just don't really have much more to mark down than "Pass" :/
<charlie-tca> No, I will try both alternate images tomorrow
<charlie-tca> PASS is good! Most of the bugs that were real obvious got fixed
<Olbi> I have been updated xubuntu daily iso testing site to 13 october :P some1 could add there anything :]
<charlie-tca> There should be a form for each month
<charlie-tca> I show July, August, September there now
<Olbi> my bad
<charlie-tca> No problem. I will make it easier to find the right one
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-14
<GridCube> good late night people
<GridCube> im zsyncking now
<madnick> :)
<GridCube> :) sup madnick ?
<GridCube> i've read that your plymouth and lightdm will get into oneiric?
<madnick> Not much, coding :) you? 
<madnick> Well
<Unit193> Not greeter
<GridCube> :(
<GridCube> no greeter
<madnick> The greeter unfortunetly could not be done, atleast in time 
<madnick> So it goes in Oneric +1
<GridCube> madnick, been working hard on the bookshelfs, pretty boring stuff if you are not into librarianship :P
<madnick> ah :)
<GridCube> oh well, at least you already did a lot of the job
<GridCube> but wait...
<Unit193> madnick: Will it get into a PPA for those of us that want to install it though? :)
<madnick> Yeah the greeter was close to done, just some API stuff
<GridCube> we will have  P I N K greeter?
<madnick> Unit193: I stopped working on it temorarily since it did not make it in, but I will resume my work after this PyWeek competition
<GridCube> PyWee
<madnick> GridCube: hopefully we get the greeter theme in :)
<GridCube> :D awesome
<madnick> Its a wallpaper, and a font, pretty much :)
<Unit193> madnick: Don't bother on my account though..
<GridCube> i think that having it on a ppa would actually be awesome
<GridCube> something to have on a "how to hack your xubuntu" blog :P
<madnick> :)
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> :D on an offtopic topic, i finally found a bookstore that sells Terry Pratchett books :D and that my friends IS AWESOME
<GridCube> ouch installation failed, HARD
<GridCube> i took screenshots
<GridCube> is there a way to take the logs from it? on a vbox?
<GridCube> apparently there is no kernel D:
<Unit193> What install did you do? Alt?
<GridCube> http://gridcube.netii.net/screencaps/Captura%20de%20pantalla-6.png
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> alternate
<GridCube> http://gridcube.netii.net/screencaps/Captura%20de%20pantalla-7.png
<GridCube> ok now i have to go to sleep
<GridCube> see you when i see you
<Unit193> I think we had a wee bit of a netsplit there ;)
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<davmor2> morning charlie-tca 
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : Alternate images are failing to build again, abiword and xubuntu-desktop
<davmor2> charlie-tca: you at USD P?
<charlie-tca> yeah, I will be there
<charlie-tca> you?
<micahg> :(
<charlie-tca> davmor2: Will we have a chance to meet up, finally?
<davmor2> charlie-tca: Indeedly doodley 
<charlie-tca> micahg: maybe it is the server again? Abiword seemed to only build every other time during beta1 testing
<micahg> charlie-tca: no idea, let me see if abiword installs on my other oneiric machine
<micahg> charlie-tca: wfm, I'd say go for the retry
<charlie-tca> I will do that.
<mr_pouit> yeah, this error has been occurring lately
<mr_pouit> (and I couldn't reproduce)
<mr_pouit> at some point, it looked like a mirror/archive issue (e.g. gb.archive.ubuntu.com and others didn't contain oneiric abiword packages :)
<charlie-tca> Today it came from the main mirror
<charlie-tca> or, rather, server
<charlie-tca> Kind of frustating that it keeps popping up
<charlie-tca> and, again, the respin worked
<charlie-tca> syncing now, will see if it installs
<charlie-tca> Things are looking up for getting the greeter in, too
<charlie-tca> got robert_ancell and pitti on it
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: the server is dropping bits, maybe the parallel builds are giving problems. the respin zsync shows alternate images were at 98%
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: still got a failure trying to install the alternate image:
<charlie-tca> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
<charlie-tca> Sep 14 15:42:18 in-target:  libabiword-2.8 : Depends: libwv-1.2-3 (>= 1.2.4) but it is not installable
<charlie-tca> Sep 14 15:42:18 in-target:  xubuntu-desktop : Depends: tango-icon-theme-common but it is not installable
<charlie-tca> Sep 14 15:42:18 in-target:                    Recommends: screensaver-default-images but it is not installable
<mr_pouit> it's the same failure than the build failure above
<charlie-tca> with the addition of the screensaver thing
 * jarnos noticed that pulseaudio is started even if it is unselected in Application Autostart. Rather odd...
 * jarnos noticed that is was probably started by alsaplayer (gtk).
 * jarnos or any other player I tried.
<micahg> jarnos: pulseaudio is started when an app needs audio output
<jarnos> micahg, I see, I had to remove the package.
<micahg> why?   we don't support xubuntu w/out pulseaudio
<charlie-tca> micahg, mr_pouit : any chance we can find what is wrong and have good images tomorrow?
<micahg> charlie-tca: I think it's a mirror issue
<charlie-tca> So, go push another respin ?
<micahg> hold on, let me update again and try one more time
 * micahg wants to be sure he's not missing anything
<jarnos> micahg, I don't need it and my computer feels lighter without it.
<micahg> jarnos: well, that's up to you, but we test with and support the audio stack with pulseaudio as the application layer interface
<micahg> charlie-tca: abiword seems fine
<charlie-tca> okay... I will push another spin then
<jarno> micahg, there is a lot of work in supporting Xubuntu with pulseaudio: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pulseaudio
<micahg> jarno: we inherit the audio stack from Ubuntu, pulseaudio is what was chosen, that's what we use
<micahg> charlie-tca: trying to install xubuntu-desktop in a chroot now to see if there are any issues
<charlie-tca> It's alternate images failing
<jarno> micahg, luckily, it can be removed, if you prefer. I have not noticed any problem with plain ALSA, but I suppose it is hardware dependent.
<charlie-tca> The desktop images do work, which should mean xubuntu-desktop is not the problem
<micahg> well, the two images are set up differently
 * micahg doesn't understand the nuances yet
<micahg> \o/ colord install failure
<charlie-tca> bug 850172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850172 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Oneiric Alternate images fail to find abiword dependencies when building images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850172
<charlie-tca> includes the logs from the failed install
<charlie-tca> qa meeting
<micahg> charlie-tca: ok, I have no idea what's causing that, I only got a colord failure when I installed
<charlie-tca> Okay, that's why I filed the bug. If we can't figure out what is wrong, maybe ev or cjwatson can
<charlie-tca> I will attempt an install on my other hardware, just to make sure that is not the problem
<charlie-tca> The new behaviour of xfburn sucks!
<charlie-tca> I have 60 images, and to pick the right one from "recently used" doesn't work
<charlie-tca> Why can't it default to the last directory any more?
<micahg> charlie-tca: k3b?
<charlie-tca> xfburn, which is the xubuntu default
<micahg> I know, I was making a suggestion
<charlie-tca> micahg: same failure on my other hardware machine
<micahg> right, I think the issue is with creating the image
<charlie-tca> I do too, considering that every respin had to be done twice for beta1, with the same errors
<raevol> just saw the xubuntu meeting notes, is xubuntu sticking with gdm for 11.10? or just won't have an xubuntu theme for lightdm in 11.10?
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu will have lightdm. It is only the theme we are unsure of at this time
<raevol> ok thanks
<raevol> i'm not sure if this is the right place to discuss this, but i feel we should keep an eye on beatbox from elementaryos to use as a media player, it's pretty nice
<charlie-tca> Good place to mention stuff, yes
<charlie-tca> elementary os is supposed to be based on Ubuntu 12.04 
<charlie-tca> The more it is based on Gnome / Unity, the harder it becomes for us to use 
<raevol> right, and beatbox is way to feature incomplete to consider at the moment, but it seems like a good start
<raevol> i'm just suggesting the media player, i have it installed in xubuntu through the ppa, it's just a gtk program
<charlie-tca> I would suggest keeping an eye on it then. 
<raevol> cool
<charlie-tca> We do try and review such things each cycle
<charlie-tca> It just becomes too much for one person to try and keep track of things
<raevol> no worries, there's a lot of different programs out there, especially when it comes to media players
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> but we are pretty much open at looking around
 * Unit193 will always use VLC though :P
<raevol> you could consider having one xubuntu person specialize in each program? like one person for browsers, one for media players, one for chat clients?
<charlie-tca> in comparing them, yes
<raevol> i know i go through media players like kleenex, so i'm pretty versed on what's available
<raevol> of course i have my own bias as to which is the "best" though
<charlie-tca> here is the last big comparison we had on them:
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/DefaultMusicPlayer
<raevol> karmic
<charlie-tca> yes, but you can see the layout and how we compared them.
<pleia2> charlie-tca: I was thinking, since we have a few new contributors this cycle doing it that you essentially taught by hand, a blog post about "how to test daily xubuntu isos" would be nice
<charlie-tca> yes, I could agree with that
 * charlie-tca supposes pleia2 was thinking he should write that, too?
<charlie-tca> Well, that makes the nick list shorter :)
<raevol> :P
<Unit193> Yep, handy ;)
<pleia2> please :) but I can proof it and find people who don't know about testing to review it too
<charlie-tca> Olbi: I tried to make it easier to pick the right month for testing. Let me know if it works for you?
<charlie-tca> pleia2: okay, I will 
<pleia2> hehe
<Unit193> He's helped me *tons*
<Olbi> ok
<Olbi> charlie-tca: nice works, thx :)
<charlie-tca> You are welcome. Thanks for trying so hard! 
<Olbi> there isnt work link to iso: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20110914/oneiric-desktop-amd64.iso
<charlie-tca> you are right
<charlie-tca> try http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ instead
<raevol> :( i wish the Elementary Xubuntu Dark icon theme didn't override pidgin's icon, the overriden icon doesn't indicate when new messages arrive
<charlie-tca> I did not know it was based on icon theme
<charlie-tca> raevol: That should be a bug report needed, that theme is specific to Xubuntu
<raevol> ok, let me see if i can report a bug
<raevol> doesn't seem to already be reported
<charlie-tca> Here is the latest comparison of music players, but it is not as comprehesive the karmic one:
<charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Natty/DefaultMediaPlayer
<charlie-tca> report it using      ubuntu-bug xubuntu-artwork         in a terminal
<raevol> ok
<Olbi> LOL, these both are really same :P
<Olbi> I think ppl need support for players, like iPod, MP3, MP4, iRivers etc
<Olbi> maybe Banshee?
<Olbi> and I think we need change in next Xubuntu default notepadd from leafpad to gedit with gedit-plugins
<raevol> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/850376
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 850376 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Pidgin Notification Area icon does not indicate arrival of new messages" [Undecided,New]
<raevol> banshee is pretty dependency heavy, of course it's also very nice, it's what i was using before i found beatbox
<Olbi> Mousepad and Leafpad are like children instead of gEdit which is mature :)
<charlie-tca> gedit has a lot of dependencies from gnome. Also, leafpad is a simple editor, which doesn't require the whole desktop.
<Olbi> shame :(
<charlie-tca> We also have abiword if you prefer more capability
<Olbi> but is powerfull :)
<Olbi> in abiword i cant programming simple scripts :P
<charlie-tca> banshee is too resource intensive for us
<Unit193> !info scite
<ubottu> scite (source: scite): Lightweight GTK-based Programming Editor. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.03-1 (natty), package size 950 kB, installed size 2376 kB
<charlie-tca> If you look at the comparisons, you will see we chose the lightest resource use with the best all around ability
<charlie-tca> Recommendation:  geany for editing
<charlie-tca> dependent on GTK, instead of GNOME, works well, has lots of options
<Unit193> Leafpad is the best for default thoughg
<charlie-tca> I will try scite if you think it is at least comparable to gedit/geany
<charlie-tca> Olbi: why can you not do simple scripts in abiword? you can "save as" text with it.
<Olbi> i like highlighting :)
<charlie-tca> although I do use leafpad for that instead
<Olbi> and gedit plugins rocks :D
<Olbi> like embedded terminal :)
<raevol> i think the default text editor should be very simple to use, it's not intended for development, it's intended for joe shmoe user to look in text files
<raevol> if you're a developer you know how to install your own editor :P
<Olbi> :)
<charlie-tca> but gedit it tied pretty heavy to lots of gnome stuff
<charlie-tca> Olbi: geany has a terminal too
<Olbi> ok, so all done, gedit is too heavy  :D
<charlie-tca> right
<Olbi> but what now with musicplayer?
<Olbi> gmusicbrowser is good but not best :)
<raevol> gmusicplayer is probably the best of players that are light enough for xubuntu
<Olbi> hasnt good support for players and pods, and streaming
<charlie-tca> We are open to comparisons of musicplayers.
<charlie-tca> If you find one that works well, and is still lightweight, we will look at it
<charlie-tca> scite and geany seem to have about the same depends
<Olbi> but is as I read on site comparison is easier for gui creation :]
<Olbi> and more backends support
<Unit193> I don't know what to say about scite as it isn't as good as Notepad++ but it's as close as you can get :/
<Olbi> I think, gmusicborwser should have tabs in music window
<Olbi> it is very usefull
<charlie-tca> the gmusicbrowser developers are pretty open to suggestions and helping get the application to work for users.
<raevol> i just want winamp on linux :(
<raevol> winamp was perfect
<Olbi> AIMP3 is much more better :D
<raevol> i like winamp because of the interface, specifically the media library interface
<raevol> what does the aimp3 library look like?
<Olbi> Gmusicbrowser is written in Perl, isnt it too complicated?:P
<charlie-tca> We don't modify, we just use
<Olbi> strange irc channel #gmusicbrowser isnt on freenode
<Olbi> cant join
<Olbi> why there isn't alternate ISOs?
<charlie-tca> There are today
<Olbi> bad adress :P
<Olbi> my fault
<charlie-tca> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/
<charlie-tca> but, they are broken, too
<charlie-tca> They won't really install today
<Olbi> i will check it :)
<Olbi> that's why is 20110914.1
<charlie-tca> yup
<raevol> so, i am seeing this "sound menu" integration on a few things now
<raevol> but when i installed that on xubuntu, it removed my menus from my windows
<raevol> anyone know how to use the sound menu without it removing your menus?
<charlie-tca> usually install xfce4-indicator instead of unity
<mr_pouit> remove appmenu-gtk
<raevol> i see, yea i think i was having that issue on my desktop, seems to work fine on my netbook, i'll check what i did to my desktop to mess it up when i get home
<raevol> the indicator plugin seems to be a different color from my panel though
<raevol> on might be because my panel has transparency
<raevol> hmm yea xfce4-indicator doesn't theme based on the panel, it themes based on the system scheme
<raevol> that's probably asking too much though haha
<raevol> oh hey the indicator applet shows pidgin messages... i guess i can take the pidgin notification area icon away
<raevol> this is what i get for customizing my desktop too much
<raevol> now i just need my power icon to fit the theme...
<Olbi> I try to talk with polish transaltors for Xubuntu nad send mail to one of them, but didnt recaive any answer yet :(
<Olbi> and media player should be mplayer with some gui like smplayer or VLC cause of VDPAU and VA-API support
<Olbi> today most ppl like high resolution video and it helps on olders computers :)
<raevol> raevol
<raevol> wrong window -_-
<raevol> hmm, what's necessary to get my battery to show up in the indicator menu in xfce?
<charlie-tca> add battery indicator to the panel?
<charlie-tca> or at least add xfce4-battery-plugin to your system
<raevol> yea, but i want the indicator-menu appearance to the icon
<raevol> trying to make everything look nice
<raevol> hmm, if i make my notification area 23 pixels it shows nicely
<raevol> but any bigger and it changes the icon
<raevol> that seems a little silly
<charlie-tca> Yes, but smaller icons have less detail
<charlie-tca> so it does make sense
<raevol> well the smaller one is monochrome and the same style as the indicator menu
<raevol> the larger one is colored and a completely different style
<raevol> i know this is super nitpicky...
<raevol> i probably need to contact the people who make xfce-power-manager and see what it would take to make an appindicator for it
<raevol> which they will probably be less than thrilled out
<charlie-tca> heh, yeah
<charlie-tca> but worth asking, I suppose
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-15
<GridCube> good late night people
<GridCube> i guess alternate images are broken?
<GridCube> i can't really test today :(
<micahg> \o/ we're free of python-support on the CD
<Unit193> Sweet, that should make us smaller!
<micahg> mr_pouit: what's better is we're free of it before anyone else :)
<Unit193> So we get to shout "first"? ;)
<micahg> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-August/033965.html was either wrong or some changes have leaked back in
<olbi> hello
<olbi> Are here ppl from translating?
<mr_pouit> micahg: nice! (also, thanks for the x-d-t/exo syncs :)
<mr_pouit> olbi: all xfce translations are handled upstream
<olbi> i`was found some incorrect translations on Xubuntu 11.04,  i.e. during copy files :)
<olbi> xubuntu has mono install at default?
<mr_pouit> no
<astraljava> Hey guys, I finally took the plunge and started using oneiric as my primary workstation for my job.
<astraljava> So, I can more easily test and possibly fix stuff, if needed.
<astraljava> But, I was wondering, did any one of you set the box up with pulseaudio previously, and manage to get several sound sources working at the same time?
<astraljava> If so, then can you set it up the same way on oneiric?
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> Beta2 freeze today at 21:00 UTC
<charlie-tca> micahg: what about blueman? do we need it ?
<charlie-tca> Alternate images still broken
<charlie-tca> going cut grass
<micahg> charlie-tca: haven't had time to look yet :(
<charlie-tca> Okay, thanks, micahg 
<mr_pouit> micahg: thanks for the syncs! (please don't sync fsguard-plugin though, the patch doesn't work here, it causes a segfault; I've committed a new version to svn, but it's not uploaded yet)
<micahg> mr_pouit: there was another problem with that one as well
<micahg> mr_pouit: override_dh_auto_test: seems to have been added with nothing in it, was that intentional?
<micahg> mr_pouit: also, I wanted xfce4-dict, but -01 was added which means we won't get certain hardening in the build
<mr_pouit> micahg: the override is intentional, to avoid the build failure due to the patch and intltool
<micahg> ok, good to know
<mr_pouit> (intltool will ask to add the .pc/patch-name/patch-c-files to po/POTFILES.skip
<mr_pouit> )
<mr_pouit> (we usually regenerate that file, but Corsac found that it's easier to override the auto_test when package don't have useful tests)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-16
<GridCube> good evening
<GridCube> charlie-tca, :D wanna see what i've been working at?
<charlie-tca> Sure
<GridCube> http://gridcube.netii.net/test/XubuntuTestingsCenter.html
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> Good evening, sir
<GridCube> I've found that i can make a php api that sends stuff to a google spreadsheet
<charlie-tca> That's pretty
<GridCube> but is bloddy hard to do
<charlie-tca> Where does it get the tests for today?
<charlie-tca> I guess they stay the same each week, too, huh?
<GridCube> i think i can make this work whit a MySQL database on the webhost service
<GridCube> :D no! 
<charlie-tca> They are supposed to stay the same each week
<GridCube> thats the fun part, i figured out how to make conditional php that fetchs different htm for each day
<GridCube> so if its monday it says what test are meant for monday and so on
<charlie-tca> will there be a way to look and see what has been for the month, then?
<GridCube> i believe so
<GridCube> i think it wont be hard to see what has been done in total, in last month, last week, and last day
<GridCube> i think i can even make it show what test WEREN'T done
<GridCube> but i don't think it will be ready until next cycle
<charlie-tca> It is always good to be able to see what was done, in the positive side of things :)
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> that would be pretty easy for what i gather from php fetching sql
<GridCube> but then again is the very first time i do it :P
<GridCube> the "test meant for today" part changes every day, as i was saying, but i made it for weekdays, not for particular dates
<GridCube> it can be done tho
<charlie-tca> That works, as long as we can track by date
<GridCube> so you can have messages like "in two days is beta2!"
<charlie-tca> Neat!
<GridCube> and in that particular day you can have "TODAY IS BETA2!" and stuff like that
<charlie-tca> That is great!
<GridCube> also i forgot to add links,
<GridCube> to irc and how to test and stuff like that
<GridCube> and im not really good whit css so it wont look pretty once it falls over the background image :P
<charlie-tca> It is looking really nice.
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> i guess that if i can get a mySQL server on another dedicated place i could send stuff there, so it won't depend on the free hosting im using
<charlie-tca> Can't just feed the results back to google docs?
<charlie-tca> Hm, I should have someone help me set my domains up so we can use it, maybe
<charlie-tca> I do pay every month. Getting enough use is good
<GridCube> charlie-tca, it can be done, using a special API that google gives for free that haves its own rules
<GridCube> if you want me i can try to learn to use that
<GridCube> but i think that using a MySQL database its more eficient, from coding stuff
<GridCube> that being said i have to learn anyone in anycase
<charlie-tca> Okay, maybe someone can me figure it out at UDS
<charlie-tca> All it should take is another sub-domain for me
 * GridCube doesnt know
<GridCube> im just learning :)
<charlie-tca> me too
<charlie-tca> if pleia2 has some time, maybe she could teach me how to set the site up with limited access
<GridCube> I have to add something saying "xubuntu is from canonical and stuff" right?
<charlie-tca> or at least tell me if I need to upgrade to a standalone server type thing
<GridCube> i have no idea :(
<charlie-tca> steal the footer from the website... http://xubuntu.org
<GridCube> ok :)
<charlie-tca> That's the easiest way to do that
<charlie-tca> heh, I now have at least three people concur that the alternate image is broken at the server. They also agree it should be working.
<GridCube> trying to install
<pleia2> what am I doing?
<charlie-tca> desktop image should work. alternate image is broken bad
<charlie-tca> nothing yet
<charlie-tca> I have a website with several domains hosted on hostgator.com
<charlie-tca> is there a way to set up mysql and give limited access to it?
<pleia2> the server we used for the xubuntu testing is available if you need space, it's running debian (hope that's ok)
<pleia2> not sure how hostgator works, but mysql in general allows very fine-tuned controls, locking a specific user to a specific database is pretty easy
<GridCube> pleia2, im doing this: http://gridcube.netii.net/test/XubuntuTestingsCenter.html
<pleia2> GridCube: oh I see :)
<GridCube> it should store stuff on a MySQL database
<charlie-tca> I know just enough about setting things up to do what it tells me I have to.
<GridCube> so i need, well i have, a MySQL server, but on my freehosting site, 
<GridCube> abiword fails
<charlie-tca> yeah, but it isn't abiword's fault. It is all there, the server just refuses to accept it
<charlie-tca> so, it builds the image without the library, I think is what happens, thus abiword fails to install.
<GridCube> http://gridcube.netii.net/screencaps/Captura%20de%20pantalla-8.png
<charlie-tca> yeah, that comes from the server building the images and not accepting the libs
<GridCube> ok
<charlie-tca> Got people working on it, but they said it shouldn't be happening
<charlie-tca> GridCube: bug 850172
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 850172 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Oneiric Alternate images fail to find abiword dependencies when building images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850172
<GridCube> show them the screenshot :P
<charlie-tca> They know already
<charlie-tca> They just don't know why it is doing it
<GridCube> i blame it on gremlins
<charlie-tca> It has been happening for two or three weeks, but now it won't go away
<GridCube> i can keep installing whit lots of questions
<charlie-tca> it won't work in the end
<charlie-tca> The install will be bad
<GridCube> ah, no it can't
<GridCube> :P
<charlie-tca> Started two days ago to fail hard. 
<charlie-tca> Hopefully, they will have time to work it and get it fixed tomorrow
<charlie-tca> And now, I will go rest for a few hours. 
<GridCube> hopefully
<GridCube> :) good night mister
<olbi> hello
<ochosi> hi
<olbi> translators are handled upstream, so how I can report them problem with local translations?
<mr_pouit> you can contact the coordination mailing list: https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce-i18n
<olbi> mr_pouit: ok thx
<charlie-tca> Alternate images appear to be working today. 
<micahg> charlie-tca: dh_python2 is done BTW, we did the conversion ahead of everyone else
<micahg> w/barry's help
<charlie-tca> really?
<micahg> yep, only needed 3 packages converted
<charlie-tca> I will so inform skaet then
<micahg> apt-cache show python-support
<micahg> Task: cloud-image, ubuntu-desktop, openstack, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-desktop-kde, mythbuntu-backend-master, mythbuntu-backend-master, mythbuntu-backend-slave, mythbuntu-backend-slave, mythbuntu-desktop, mythbuntu-frontend, mythbuntu-frontend, lubuntu-desktop, ubuntustudio-generation, ubuntustudio-graphics, ubuntustudio-recording, ubuntustudio-video
<micahg> we're not listed :)
<charlie-tca> Thank you very much!
<charlie-tca> we are gaining... :)
<micahg> that was easier than I thought it would be (just 3 packages and I only did 2 of them )
<micahg> I'm also trying to get the exo helper fixed in the apparmor abstractions
<micahg> the firefox apparmor profile is off by default, but if people enable it, they'll get a failure when trying to open downloads from the browser
<micahg> bug 851977
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 851977 in apparmor (Ubuntu) "apparmor denies access to /usr/bin/exo-open" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851977
<charlie-tca> Oh, goody
<micahg> well, it's been broken for a while, so I don't feel so baf
<micahg> *bad
<knome> charlie-tca, pleia2: see your email - good news - we got reviewed and approved
<charlie-tca> Great!
<pleia2> woohoo!
<Unit193> Heyhey! New webpage??
<knome> soon
<pleia2> cool, I'm logged in :)
<knome> me too
<knome> :D
<Unit193> Awesome! But I can't login ;)
<knome> of course not ;P
<madnick> The new webpage is live?
<madnick> Im getting the old one O_ol
<knome> pleia2, i can work on copying the new website specific stuff later today
<knome> madnick, soon
<madnick> ah :>
<knome> but we're ready to launch
<knome> just need to copy the content and stuff
<ochosi> hey everyone
<knome> how do i find out what is my ssh-key id?
<knome> nvm
<knome> today was the security day :/
<knome> password sent to email plaintext (yay)
<pleia2> yeah, wordpress is awesome like that
<micahg> a replacement password I hope
<knome> micahg, no. that was something that was used somewhere else too. they sent it to me when i registered (yeah i know!)
<knome> after that this day became the security day
<micahg> yeah, I hate that, but that's not as bad as sites that e-mail your own password to you for "recovery" after the fact
<knome> heh
<GridCube> good evening
<madnick> evening :)
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-17
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> We need as many tests as possible today and tomorrow on the images
<madnick> morning :)
<madnick> ill download some images
<GridCube> charlie-tca, :D
<charlie-tca> Hello, GridCube 
<GridCube> http://gridcube.netii.net/test/XubuntuTestingsCenter.html
<charlie-tca> testing today?
<GridCube> It works!
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> okay will do
<charlie-tca> That looks nice
<charlie-tca> Have you gotten with pleia2 about the MySQL server?
<GridCube> no i just used the one i had
<charlie-tca> Okay
<charlie-tca> Images seem to be working again today
<charlie-tca> Whoa! lightdm is still pink in 386 installs
<GridCube> yes it is
<GridCube> also there is no entry for bluetooth now
<GridCube> oooh but the shutdown thing its there
<GridCube> the plymouth greeter i think its called
<charlie-tca> No, it is lightdm, at the login screen
<charlie-tca> Oh!
<charlie-tca> yeah, plymouth if it shutting down
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> bluetooth is gone completely?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> from the menu
<GridCube> is not there
<charlie-tca> well, that is one way to fix it
<GridCube> although the bluetooth service is runing
<GridCube> yes, that is
<charlie-tca> Don't forget to update the testing tracker for any tests you run today
<GridCube> the testing tracker... ubuntu'?Â¿
<GridCube> or our google spreadsheet?
<charlie-tca> ours
<GridCube> oks
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> i've updated my project so now it shows a different message every day, whit warningns and news :D
<GridCube> I hope to figure out someday how to paint PASS and FAIL in colors, i don't seem to figure out how to yet
<charlie-tca> hm, This September is doing that, but I don't know how, either
<GridCube> bug 852835
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 852835 could not be found
<GridCube> bug #852835
<charlie-tca> for what?
<GridCube> for encrypted disk
<GridCube> ubuntu software center
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> bug #852835
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 852835 could not be found
<GridCube> why its not posting it
<charlie-tca> software center don't work, does it?
<GridCube> no
<GridCube> anyway i couldn't really test it was painfully slow
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/852835
<GridCube> there it exists
<ubottu> Error: ubuntu bug 852835 not found
<GridCube> well mister ubottu bot, it exist wheter you want it or not
<charlie-tca> If it is a private bug, the bot can't see it
<charlie-tca> I think software center is broken for gcc or something
<GridCube> :/ i don't understand how a bug can be private
<GridCube> why was it private?
<GridCube> bug #852835
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852835 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with TypeError in _parse_menu_tag(): 'NoneType' object is not iterable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852835
<GridCube> there
<GridCube> no one was reported 
<GridCube> :/
<charlie-tca> because apport marks it private until it gets checked for private information
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> i unchecked it
<charlie-tca> As I recall, they are working that and it should be fixed tomorrow or Monday
<GridCube> okay, just to tell :)
<charlie-tca> It's good to have it reported.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-09-18
<GridCube> good morning
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<charlie-tca> I will be running destkop tests today
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> will do alternate test
<GridCube> any particular test you want me to do charlie-tca ?
<charlie-tca> all or as many as you can.
<GridCube> doing free software whit encrypted /home then :D two for the price of one!
<charlie-tca> I would like to get all the tests covered between yesterday and today
<GridCube> oh! and i will also do autoresize in the same test! 3 for the price of 1! :D
<GridCube> ooookay
<GridCube> i figured out why yesterday shotdown happened, somehow power shutdown for just half a second 
<GridCube> in my whole house, and my nephew's
<GridCube> so yeah
<charlie-tca> Yeah, that's usually enough here to throw my computers off
<GridCube> yep
<GridCube> restarting tests
<charlie-tca> You running VirtualBox, right?
<charlie-tca> WOW! new plymouth screens are amazing!
<charlie-tca> They are working on my hardware too
<GridCube> im getting an error while partitioning
<charlie-tca> which image?
<GridCube> alternate
<charlie-tca> is that the convoluted test you are trying to make work?
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/172970
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> :P
<GridCube> i should restart whit standard install?
<charlie-tca> yeah, going to have to try each one and see if one thing causes it. might be the encrypted /home
<charlie-tca> which requires /swap to encrypt too
<GridCube> but anyway so far i just did, only free software, and auto rezise, the virtual disk already has 2 partitions of oneiric and swap
<charlie-tca> doing an auto-resize leaves an unencrypted swap
<GridCube> i never said to encrypt the disk to it
<GridCube> :/
<charlie-tca> hm, I wonder if free software and encrypted home are compatible?
<charlie-tca> the encrypted home may require non-free software
<charlie-tca> How big is the virtual disk?
<GridCube> 25gb
<GridCube> it did it, it just took time 
<GridCube> :D
<charlie-tca> so it is working now?
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> i overreacted
<charlie-tca> :)
<charlie-tca> Yeah, I do that sometimes... get tired of waiting :)
<charlie-tca> Software Center crashes when you open it in Xubuntu
<charlie-tca> and, we still don't have any header text when choosing "Install Xubuntu"  from the desktop cd menu
<charlie-tca> astraljava: bug 841365 appears to be fixed. The slider is between the shown partitions now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 841365 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "No divider for space allocation in Xubuntu oneiric "alongside" installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/841365
<charlie-tca> (at least on 64bit hardware installs)
<charlie-tca> It is very difficult to get the arrow to show up, but it can be done
<GridCube> what arrow?
<charlie-tca> When you hover the mouse between the existing and proposed partitions, it should change to an arrow, to allow resizing the partitions
<charlie-tca> It has to be right on the divider, though
<GridCube> oh, that sort of things happen a lot whit linux
<charlie-tca> seems to be about a single pixel to hit
<GridCube> yes
<charlie-tca> Yeah, OS of the young and steady hand
<GridCube> that is, i get very frustrated all the time i want to resize a windows, my mouse aint very presize at that, :/
<charlie-tca> Which is why I keep going back to clearlooks themes, the scroll bar is wide enough for me to see and hit
<GridCube> :P
<charlie-tca> even the window edges are easier in clearlooks
<charlie-tca> It must use two or three pixels for the target
<GridCube> that sounds razonable
<charlie-tca> So much easier than the 1 pixel target!
<GridCube> indeed 
<GridCube> :D my lasagna is already in oven :D
<astraljava> charlie-tca: Excellent, I'll check myself later tonight.
<charlie-tca> I just ate lunch here
<GridCube> mmm detecto solo un sistema operati... lol xD 
<GridCube> it detected just one of the OS
<GridCube> it should have 2 other installs of oneiric, lets see how it shows when it reboots
<charlie-tca> yup
<charlie-tca> They are all oneiric, it detects oneiric, but sees all installs of it
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> 2 other installs on grub
<GridCube> PINK
<charlie-tca> must be 386
<GridCube> how to check free software?
<GridCube> i don't seem to be missing anything, it looks like any other install
<GridCube> same background, same theme (greybird), same programs
<charlie-tca> GridCube: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Install/AlternateFree start at step 25
<charlie-tca> That's the "how to " reference in the top of the spreadsheet ?
<GridCube> well food time, will do later
<charlie-tca> Okeydokey
<micahg> umm...meeting tomorrow, right?
<charlie-tca> right
<charlie-tca> monday at 19:00
* ChanServ changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Oneiric Ocelot Feature Freeze in effect | #xubuntu for support | Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Xubuntu Community meeting 2011-09-19 at 19:00 UTC | Oneiric Ocelot images at http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/
<charlie-tca> micahg: bluetooth no longer shows in the menu in Oneiric
<micahg> charlie-tca: :(
<charlie-tca> Is that because it doesn't detect any devices, or because we have to add blueman?
<micahg> possibly because no devices are detected, let me upgrade my machine with bluetooth
<charlie-tca> okay
<GridCube|test> okay, so freesoftware failed
<GridCube|test> www.pastebin.com/DSwwxwp4
<charlie-tca> no, they are still commented
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> so it worked?
<charlie-tca> dpkg -l linux-restricted-* | grep -vE "^[a-z]n|D|\||+++|===" 
<charlie-tca> returned an empty prompt, so it worked
<GridCube> yes
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<GridCube> 3 tests done then :D
<GridCube> free software, encrypted /home, autoresize
<charlie-tca> if it uncomments multiverse or returns anything, it would be fail
<GridCube> :) ok
<charlie-tca> That's one of the hardest tests to check if it passes
<Olbi> what tests you need help now?
<charlie-tca> Olbi: can you do 64bit?
<charlie-tca> Want to get the alternate 64 tests done if possible
<Olbi> ok, so download now alternate CD
<GridCube> oh there is no plymouth at boot
<charlie-tca> not in VBox
<GridCube> :(
<charlie-tca> but there is on hardware :)
<micahg> GridCube: charlie-tca: latest software center seems to have fixed bug 852835
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 852835 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center crashed with TypeError in _parse_menu_tag(): 'NoneType' object is not iterable" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852835
<charlie-tca> Has not fixed it on any install today
<charlie-tca> even after updates, it still crashes
<micahg> I just tried with software-center before and after 4.1.23.3, before I got a crash, after not
<charlie-tca> What ever the one in updates is today, it crashed every install I did. I installed, ran updates, restarted, tried to run software center.
<charlie-tca> all hardware installs
<charlie-tca> Did they release a new version in the last two hours?
<micahg> ah ,just got a crash when I tried a different piece of software
<charlie-tca> It's been crashing here just trying to start it
<micahg> this is a different one though (dbus)
<micahg> oh, hmm, well, I have some gnome libs on this one, maybe it's missing a dependency
<GridCube> mmhm
<GridCube> its trying to run in gtk3 mode
<micahg> shouldn't be a problem, we ship GTK3
<GridCube> oh well
 * GridCube just helped on #xubuntu-es to an ipod user on xubuntu, install ifuse, mount whit gigolo, manage whit rythmbox
<charlie-tca> good job
<charlie-tca> !cookie | GridCube 
<ubottu> GridCube: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
<GridCube> hehehe :D
<Unit193> !msg the bot | :P
<ubottu> :P: Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubottu Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubottu !search factoid".
<micahg> charlie-tca: I still see the bluetooth menu under settings on machines w/and w/out bluetooth
<GridCube> weird, i do not.
<charlie-tca> I don't have it here on any installs done today, live session, and the the install I been using since alpha1
<charlie-tca> bluetooth is still installed/available, but it is not in the menus
<GridCube> updating to 4.1.23.3 does not solve the software-center problem
 * charlie-tca thinks this is micahg's day to be perturbed
<Olbi> :D
 * micahg doesn't want to be perturbed today...will  be a long week as it is
<charlie-tca> Sorry, sir
<charlie-tca> wishing I could fix these things, though. 
 * charlie-tca knows sometimes wishing makes it happen, but it is so seldom!
<micahg> these are also systems that have been upgraded a few releases, so there might be left overs on them
<charlie-tca> That is true
<charlie-tca> I copy the existing system and upgrade each release, so I get a pretty new system every year
<charlie-tca> I said that wrong
<charlie-tca> When Oneiric releases, I will do a fresh install on a new partition, copy /home, then upgrade at alpha1 to P
<Olbi> super, plymount work only when I shutdown system :P
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> it does that!
<GridCube> madnick work is excelent :)
<Pjotr> Recently, a couple of important packages have been released again. This has already much improved the quality of the Dutch translations of Xubuntu 11.10 Oneiric, which is great! Thank you, developers!
<Pjotr> However, the job isn't entirely done yet. Some important packages still have the bad old translation.
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: Do you know which Xfce packages are still waiting to be released?
<Pjotr> Another problem, not Xfce-related this time: lightdm. This is still 100 % English in Xubuntu 11.10. Upstream the translation has been finished by the Dutch Ubuntu translators: https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm/
<Pjotr> It's an important package for localization, because it's very conspicuous. Is there any chance that the Dutch translation will be issued to Xubuntu 11.10?
<micahg> Pjotr: you have to talk to the desktop team about that
<Pjotr> micahg: concerning lightdm you mean?
<micahg> Pjotr: yes
<Pjotr> OK... Where can I reach them on IRC?
<micahg> Pjotr: #ubuntu-desktop, robert_ancell should be coming online in a few hours
<Pjotr> Thanks, I'll do that.  :-)
<Pjotr> Meanwhile, I hope that someone here can tell me the answer to my first question, concerning the Xfce packages... :P
<Olbi> Polish translations is done for lightdm ....
<micahg> Pjotr: I just pull in whatever Debian packages (assuming it's not going to break stuff)
<mr_pouit> hey there
<mr_pouit> Pjotr: I think xfce4-panel, thunar and xfwm4 are still waiting to be released (need more testing afaik)
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: OK.... will they be in time for Xubuntu 11.10 final, you think?
<micahg> final freeze is a week and a half (sep 29)
<Pjotr> still some time left, then.... we'll see. :-)
<Pjotr> I asked Nick about some Goodies as well, notably xfce4-power-manager
<Pjotr> Do you know anything about that, or should I contact Nick?
<GridCube> well im bored im gonna go do something
<GridCube> good evening, and good night, and i will see you again, hopefully tomorrow for the meeting
<GridCube> if not then in a few days XD
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: bug 845549 Will not be fixed. robert_ancell has no idea how to make lightdm work without out, and the suggestion is we have to replace it instead of the way we are doing it now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 845549 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Do not ship /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/845549
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: and when replacing it, do not lose any pre-set defaults or it will fail
<charlie-tca> basically, it will be up to us to figure out how to actually make lightdm work our way.
<charlie-tca> robert is open to suggestions and patches to make it actually work
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-10
<Unit193> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ Derpy.
<SkippersBoss> ow
<Unit193> zsync buggled up earlier today, tried again now and it was still buggled.
<SkippersBoss> euh empty
<SkippersBoss> i can't see a current folder
<bluesabre> pnarciso, knome, mr_pouit: indicator-messages looks pretty hopeless to be honest.  I'm going to hack on it this week, but I don't expect to get anywhere.
<micahg> bluesabre: the expectation is that we won't ship with it, anything else is a bonus :)
<bluesabre> Good.  I'm meeting expectations then!  ;)
<knome> micahg, looks like dropping gimp dropped the image size to 735 on amd, and 709 on i386
<knome> micahg, dropping gnumeric would be over 10MB (gnumeric 2.5MB + gnumeric-common 4MB + gnumeric-doc 5MB)
<micahg> knome: that's it :(
<micahg> well, the korean fonts are about 5MB also
<knome> if we dropped those and gnumeric, that would be 15MB+ more.
<knome> that would mean i386 fits on a CD already
<knome> let's do that.
<knome> or do you think we shouldn't?
<knome> would you rather drop one more language than gnumeric?
<knome> korean fonts, xhosa, one western language and try to drop rest from smaller things?
<knome> (like a few games)
<micahg> do we think a spreadsheet is no longer needed in a default install?
<knome> i don't think it is; does windows have onw?
<knome> one too
<micahg> idk
<knome> or is it always a test version
<knome> what do you think of the last idea?
<knome> 16:08  knome: korean fonts, xhosa, one western language and try to drop rest from smaller things?
<knome> at least we wouldn't drop any functionality
<elfy> from an outside user point of view - I'd say it would be better to lose some languages and games than 'useful' things 
<ablomen> knome, sort of, windows 8 offers you to install a version of microsoft works with adds if you try to open one
<knome> if you are korean, korean fonts are useful :]
<ablomen> *ads
<knome> ablomen, aha, ok.. :P
<bluesabre> Does ubiquity install your language pack if not installed when you select it?
<elfy> knome: well yea ... 
<micahg> western language I'm ok dropping
<knome> micahg, xhosa isn't a "big" language either
<knome> if we think it's better to drop western languages, i'm ok with dropping two of them too, but that would leave us with english and one, and that's a bit awkward imo
 * micahg wishes xubuntu had a lighter help browser
<knome> heh
<knome> is there lighter ones for docbook :P
<Sysi> how useful is gnumeric?
<knome> very, if you need spreadsheet editing
<knome> otoh, i think many that need, will want LO anyway
<micahg> also, keep in mind we can install stuff not in the live env, so the question is, what needs to be in the live env
<knome> micahg, well, gnumeric isn't needed in the live environment, if that gives us more space
<elfy> I was not aware of that - learn something new everyday 
<micahg> the catch is we have to remove whatever isn't in the live env from xubuntu-desktop
<knome> aha
<knome> so people need to install those apps manually, if they want to use them?
<micahg> oh, hrm, maybe I'm imagining things
<knome> hehe
 * knome pats micahg on the head
<knome> micahg, btw, will you be at UDS?
<micahg> yes
<knome> awesome! :)
 * micahg thinks xchat should go
<knome> how much?
<knome> is the fish..
<micahg> ~2.5MB
<knome> have we agreed on some stuff already
<knome> one western language goes?
<knome> which one is the least spoken?
<ochosi> hm, isn't xchat useful for ppl who want support from the live-system?
<knome> ochosi, no, they can use webirc
<ochosi> iirc the link in ubiquity opens xchat with the #xubuntu chan
<knome> ochosi, no, it's webirc
<micahg> pidgin has irc support
<smartboyhw> ochosi: We use webchat.freenode.net then
<ochosi> ok ok, then do away with it already :)
<elfy> I tend to fire up pidgin in the live env
<knome> ochosi, ;]
<knome> i can live without xchat.
 * elfy makes notes of what he needs to install post install :p
<bluesabre> I used xchat, then I found that pidgin does IRC better
 * smartboyhw can't live without xchat: No cloak on webchat
<Sysi> statistically twitter client should be more used than irc one.. and there's pidgin anyway
<micahg> hrm, do we need usb-creator-gtk?, it's pulling in udisks
<Sysi> thunar or some part of xfce isn't using udisks?
<micahg> udsisk2
<micahg> *udisks2
<knome> how many people are creating an usb disk from the live cd?
 * micahg would think not many
<knome> me too
 * elfy wouldn't either
<knome> how much?
 * smartboyhw uses Unetbootin to load the ISO into the USB
<elfy> from a livecd?
<smartboyhw> No, from an ISO, but then if I do that I will just copy the contents lol
<micahg> knome: I think at least 1MB
<knome> micahg, well...:)
<bluesabre> I've done it once, but only because usb-creator-gtk is currently broken in Q
<ochosi> maybe i missed an important point, but why are we so very much oversized anyway?
<micahg> python2/3, gtk2/3
<ochosi> why do we need python2?
<ochosi> pidgin?
<ochosi> or something else?
<micahg> most of the archive still needs it :)
<bluesabre> I can upgrade catfish whenever needed
<micahg> blueman, gdb
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> so what needs python3 then?
<knome> lol
<micahg> apport and some other core infrastructure
<bluesabre> probably usc
<ochosi> oh man
<ochosi> we're lucky this isn't the LTS
<micahg> knome: ok, how about dropping usb-creator-gtk, gnumeric, and making the 2 western languages and the korean fonts i386 only?
<knome> micahg, are you sure we'll fit, or is that an estimate?
<micahg> that's an estimate
<knome> gnumeric will definitely get us below 700 in i386
<micahg> you want usb creator i386 only as well?
<knome> i suppose we can drop it completely
<knome> let's have some playing space
<knome> but i'd still make 1 western lanugage and xhosa i386 only
<micahg> ok
<knome> and for that, you'll have my ack :)
<micahg> which one, fr, es, pt?
 * knome refers to wikipedia
<knome> pt 208 million native
<knome> fr 115 million
<knome> sp 400 million
<knome> fr it is then
<smartboyhw> Bye france:)
<micahg> hrm, fonts-nanum would be funny as it's in -desktop, so amd64 would install a different set of pacakges than i386
<knome> heh
<knome> is that the korean fonts package, or just one of them?
<micahg> that's the korean fonts package
<knome> what if we just drop them altogether then?
<micahg> we could, idk what impact that would have on those users though
<knome> they would need to simply install that package?
<knome> :)
<micahg> well, maybe let's see where we're at tomorrow with these changes?
<micahg> before dropping the korean fonts
<knome> can you list one more time what the current proposal is?
<micahg> 2 languages i386 only, drop gnumeric (until space appears), drop usb-creator-gtk (permanent)
<knome> and languages are xh and fr
<micahg> yes
<knome> ok, let's do that
<micahg> ok, uploading new meta
<knome> thanks again
<knome> should we ask for a respin+
<knome> +=?
<micahg> oh, let me add back the indicator stuff that's already in th archive
<knome> sure
<elfy> quick put everything back 
<smartboyhw> !?
<bluesabre> lol elfy
<elfy> :)
<smartboyhw> lol
<ochosi> maybe we should consider pragha as music player for xubuntu since it already uses greybird for the screenshots :p
<ochosi> http://pragha.wikispaces.com/Screenshots
<Sysi> (that player is *awful* in my opinion)
<ochosi> heh
<knome> hah, where's greybird? :P
<ochosi> i assume you didn't like exaile much either, hm?
<knome> right, gtk3
<ochosi> knome: http://pragha.wikispaces.com/file/view/pragha-greybird.png/359212265/800x483/pragha-greybird.png
<Sysi> I hardly remember exaile
<micahg> knome: did we want to drop xchat also?
<knome> i lost my backlog
<knome> but let's see what we get with the other changes first
<pnarciso> I see that i386 iso is much smaller now
<pnarciso> 709mb
<pnarciso> x64 is 735mb
<knome> yes
<bluesabre> mr_pouit, micahg: For the debian control file, if there are no Recommenends, do you remove that line, or leave it blank after the ":"?
<bluesabre> *Recommends
<micahg> bluesabre: remove
<bluesabre> thanks micahg
<micahg> sure
<micahg> knome: don't forget that the documentation needs to be updated for all the default changes we've made
<knome> micahg, i won't
<pleia2> yay, someone replied on -doc!
<pleia2> rocket2dmn is great, we used to both be in the pennsylvania loco, I didn't know he was still around doing doc stuff
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-11
<SkippersBoss> oh
<SkippersBoss> ok
<SkippersBoss> oops wrong window
<knome> pleia2, great
<ochosi> knome: why are there still open issues for xfce410 here? http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-flavor-xubuntu.html
<knome> ochosi, those aren't in xubuntu
<knome> they are bugs filed against qimo-session and mythbuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> oh right
<knome> but i believe mr_pouit wants to keep them linked to our blueprint to track the status, or something
<knome> micahg, if not, please unlink :P
<knome> eh
<knome> wrong tabfill
<smartboyhw> :)
<knome> anybody around with a Q installation handy?
<smartboyhw> knome: Does Ubuntu Studio Q count?
<knome> no
<smartboyhw> alright then:)
<Unit193> Well, kinda.
<knome> kinda?
<smartboyhw> ?
<knome> booting my desktop up
<knome> aha, my Q vbox is not bootable
<Unit193> It isn't handy, but if it is needed badly...
<knome> well, i'm installing new one :)
<knome> no problem..
<knome> heh
<knome> installer died with unexpected error
<knome> ochosi!!!
<Unit193> So, what's up?
<knome> http://typewith.me/p/x-qa-desktoptest
<knome> making that work
<knome> need to check some default settings and how we expect things to be
<knome> if you see things that should be fixed, just go ahead
<Unit193> Ah, more involved than I hoped for 06:17. :P
<knome> haha
<knome> well, you don't *need* to ;)
<knome> yeah, irc.ubuntu.com is the default on pidgin
<knome> audio cd
<knome> do i have one handy
<knome> do i have 500 handy
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Pidgin doesn't count...
<knome> why doesn't it count?
<Unit193> Barely handles IRC, wasn't designed for it. :P  (Sister uses it. :(  )
<knome> does irc well enough for support questions
<knome> or "hi"
<knome> *run*
<knome> how can i make an audio disc an .iso, or can i?
<knome> do we have audio cd automount on by default?
<knome> yeah, parole should play
<Unit193> Great, I boot the vm and start hitting things, etherpad is broken...
<knome> yeah
<knome> :|
<davmor2> Unit193: Pidgin handles irc fairly well empathy is better now but still not as good, xchat for a real gui irc client though
<knome> hai davmor2 
<Unit193> It is Help > Contents
<knome> and not?
<Unit193> Not sure if it was "Help contents", that's why I was looking.
<knome> ok
<knome> seeing if i can hit that installer error again...
<knome> yeah, i can
<knome> ochosi!!!
<Unit193> Memory is faulty at 06:26 (or all the time, but more now)
<Unit193> davmor2: Meh, well in some areas, lacking in many others (I remember notices failing, autojoin/reconnecting flooding you off network, and several other fun issues)
<davmor2> Unit193: but for general chat it is fine the same as empathy.  as I say xchat is the better irc only client
<knome> well yeah, pidgin is obviously not good for serious ircing
<knome> but it's fine enough if you irc now and then
<davmor2> knome: agree there are a lot of people in the commercial team use pidgin for irc all day everyday cause it does what they need it to do
<Unit193> Quassel has that handy core feature if you must GUI it, hexchat is good on windows and seems to have builds for linux now that xchat is getting outdated, but I like my irssi. :)
<knome> mm.
<davmor2> Unit193: but quassel pull in more libs than anyone should ever need
<davmor2> Unit193: yeah but irssi is really unintuitive for a new user
<Unit193> libdbusmenu-qt2 libindicate-qt1 libphonon4 phonon phonon-backend-gstreamer quassel-client-qt4 quassel-data  if you already have VLC on Xubuntu. (testing/tested quassel to see what the fuss was about, and to see the core feature)
<Unit193> davmor2: Yep, that it is.
<davmor2> Unit193: yeah but there is all the QT libs to install on top of that plus if you start pulling in some of the plugins it needs some kde specific things so pulls in all the KDE core libs too
<knome> yup, irssi is definitely baffling for a new user.
<Unit193> I'm not saying it is small, but if you get the right package it isn't as bad.
<knome> no way i could get most of my friends ever use it
<Unit193> knome: Why I can't clicky?
<knome> clicky what?
<knome> oh right
<knome> meh
<ochosi> knome: ???
<Unit193> ochosi!
<knome> ochosi, nothing, it wasn't you.
<ochosi> a-ha, you know you pinged me twice, right? :)
<knome> ochosi, i know.
<Unit193> Easiest to blame you.
<knome> ochosi, yeah, ubiquity was broken and i obviously thought it was you, but it was a known
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, i'm maintaining ubiquity now :)
<knome> SHINY
<knome> 705MB for amd64
<knome> ochosi, yeah, we run parole for audio cd's by default
<ochosi> knome: i cannot have broken ubiquity even a little, the branch is still waiting: https://code.launchpad.net/ubiquity/+activereviews
<knome> ochosi, and yeah, irc.ubuntu.com is the defult irc server
<knome> ochosi, haha, ok ;)
<knome> ochosi, maybe poke people...
<ochosi> so please give cjwatson or whoever a push
<knome> Unit193, etherpad works now
<ochosi> knome: did you propose a branch already for the new wallpaper?
<knome> ochosi, no
<knome> ochosi, if you have time to do that, please do
<knome> Unit193, and fixed what you said was wrong previously
<ochosi> and btw, i agree that we should put a generic symlink like "xubuntu-wallpaper" pointing the most recent one there
<Unit193> Seems I did remember rith, seewrt.
<knome> works for me
<ochosi> then we don't have to modify ubiquity every single release
<knome> true
<ochosi> mr_pouit: can we add a generic symlink "xubuntu-wallpaper" so that we don't have to update ubiquity for each release? and: can we still add it for 12.10? (just to know what kind of modification we propose to ubiquity)
<knome> ochosi, can you handle it with mr_pouit? i can handle the UIFes and stuff
<ochosi> knome: i guess, at least if he gets back to me :)
<knome> ochosi, ok, thanks. i can also poke him if he doesn't
<knome> ochosi, i also told cjwatson your stuff is ready (again)
<ochosi> yup, you're the poker-face
<knome> haha, i was looking for my ring
<knome> too close...
<Unit193> knome: Shouldn't #ubuntu-packaging: Packaging for Ubuntu, including new packages, PPA packages, etc.  For working on Ubuntu, see  #ubuntu-devel, for writing applications, see #ubuntu-app-devel
<Unit193> Ignore that....
<Unit193> http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy shouldn't that be linked to for "Ubuntu philosophy"?
<mips1911> do you guys think xfce 4.12 will make it into xubuntu 13.04 in time?
<ochosi> nope
<mips1911> ochosi, so 13.04 will still feature 4.10 then? Apparantly 4.12 release is scheduled for March which leaves very little time.
<ochosi> mips1911: apparently you don't know that much about xfce's release schedules :}
<ochosi> it usually takes considerably longer than planned
<knome> Unit193, huh? :)
<mips1911> yeah, usually late
<ochosi> and in fact not much has happened since 4.10
<Unit193> knome: Where it says "Ubuntu philosophy", it points to "The Ubuntu Story"
<Unit193> Menu > Help
<knome> hmm
<knome> right
<knome> that's fixed in the new docs
<knome> *will be
<Unit193> Bleh...
<knome> :)
<knome> Unit193, bzr branch lp:~knome/+junk/xubuntu-docs
<knome> Unit193, and build :P
<knome> should be already fixed in that branch
<knome> Unit193, you will probabyly need: gnome-doc-utils, docbook and docbook-utils to be able to 'make'
<ochosi> knome: i just took a brief look at plymouth
<ochosi> i think i might be able to fix the background-scaling
<ochosi> furthermore i'm proposing to replace the wallpaper there with a symlink
<knome> ochosi, ok
<knome> ochosi, ++
<ochosi> it's stupid that we ship the same wallpaper in several places
<knome> heh
<knome> agreed.
<ochosi> but i need mr_pouit for that again :)
<knome> yeah
<knome> do you think you'd have *any* time to look at the xorg bug and probably get it reverted (for the 1px borders)
<knome> i mean, not fix it, but find somebody who can or find somebody who could revert that "fix"
<ochosi> that's too much for me to debug
<knome> i'm not talking about debugging
<ochosi> i think someone more able should do that
<ochosi> well i have to debug it if we want to able to get it reverted
<knome> yes, but i was asking whether you could take time to find somebody?
<ochosi> we have to know _what_ to revert
<ochosi> i wouldn't know who to ask
<ochosi> i already talked to olivier and a few others
<knome> me neither really, so...
<knome> :)
<ochosi> and for just asking around no, i'm already busy enough with lightdm and plymouth
<knome> i'd talk to somebody who knows xorg or is familiar with ubuntu packaging
<knome> ok, fine
<knome> no problems
<knome> just asking :)
<ochosi> np :)
<knome> i will need to see if i have time for that myself
<knome> if not, i assume you are ready to push the 2px border fix?
<ochosi> or you find someone else who can then in turn find someone else...
<knome> i'd say deadline is 18 or 19 this month
<knome> lol
<ochosi> ready as in "i'm prepared to do it"
<knome> heh, good ;)
<ochosi> i haven't prepared the patch yet
<knome> yeah, i'll try to see what i can do
<knome> yeah, but that's trivial
<knome> maybe we should test it ASAP anyway :P
<knome> while i know it works, still...
<knome> i don't want to miss the beta2 freeze with this
<ochosi> btw, from what i read on the web, i might be able to animate those 12.10 buttons in plymouth :)
<knome> aha
<knome> what do you mean with "animate"?
<knome> draw them manually?
<ochosi> fade-in fade-out
<knome> aha
<knome> ok
<knome> worksforme
<ochosi> well in fact the whole scaling problem is no problem at all
<knome> but let's just get the scaling issue fixed first ;)
<ochosi> for the simple bg scaling doesn't matter
<ochosi> we could get dots in as separate pixmaps
<ochosi> so they wouldn't be scaled (same as with logotype)
<knome> yes, worksforme, and i can export them for you today
<ochosi> and then animating them is just a few more lines
<knome> but does that mean we would have to have a circleless wall image?
<ochosi> not sure when i have time for it
<ochosi> yes
<knome> yeah...
<ochosi> we need that anyway, lightdm scaling isn't fixed yet :)
<knome> can you promise 17 at latest?
<knome> (that's monday)
<ochosi> no, no promises :}
<knome> beta2 freeze is thursday, and as said, i don't want to miss that
<ochosi> i'd say throw in the circleless wallpapers anyway
<knome> aha
<ochosi> as i said, we need it for lightdm and all anyway
<knome> i'd need to have a bug
<knome> to get a UIFe
<ochosi> report one ;)
<knome> ...
<knome> i can handle the UIFe, if you can handle the bug
<knome> or find somebody that does
<knome> :P
<ochosi> nah, you don't get me so easily! :)
<knome> i need to go soon anyway
<mips1911> Any news on Bug #1039375 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1039375 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Duplicate partitions shown" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1039375
<knome> not that i know of
<ochosi> knome: i'll do a plymouth animation for 13.04, i don't need the extra stress now. so let's just get that circleless wallpaper in
<knome> ochosi, well, the bug is simple: just say we need the wallpaper for lightdm and plymouth ;]
<knome> ochosi, and add patches ;]
<ochosi> knome: yeah, so go report it ;)
<knome> haha
<knome> yeah
<knome> i need to go
<ochosi> cya
<knome> i'll put that on my "get somebody to do" list
<ochosi> seriously, that sounds like more effort than just reporting that bug yourself
<ochosi> but go ahead, it's your life :]
<knome> lol, the patches don't
<knome> i also want to make the community feel as if they belong here
<knome> so they'd better do something >:)
<knome> i mean, it's a small thing yeah, but it's something anybody can do.
<ochosi> "as if" -> as in: they _in fact_ don't belong :D
<knome> haha
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> k, hf!
<knome> you just gave up my "little" secret...
<knome> oh noes!
<knome> well i'm not in a too much hurry
<knome> just didn't want to file the bug now
<knome> but yeah, see you later
<knome> ->
<micahg> knome: 705/691 :)
<ochosi> yes, ubiquity finally looks alright again
<ochosi> knome: the abiword screenshot is still old in ubiquity
<pnarciso> hello all
<ochosi> hi pnarciso 
<pnarciso> I've noticed that iso are finally at 705mb
<pnarciso> what was removed?
<Unit193> gimp
<pnarciso> only gimp
<Unit193> That was the main thing, they've been trimming everything they could hunt down.
<micahg> gimp, gnumeric, mahjongg, and some languages and fonts on amd64
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<micahg> hi ochosi
<Unit193> Ah, gnumeric is another bigger application.
<ochosi> i guess since we've removed gnumeric we have to update the installer-slideshow
<pnarciso> We have the option to install them later, so no bug deal
<pnarciso> We have the option to install them later, so no big deal
<ochosi> yes, but we're still informing ppl about the default setup
<ochosi> in the installer-slideshow
<ochosi> otherwise we could also inform them about rhythmbox or libreoffice
<pnarciso> yes
<pnarciso> USC was fixed today
<pnarciso> it's functional again
<pnarciso> window border are still broken though, xserver 1.13 official still have the bug
<ochosi> yes, i'm considering to push the workaround soon
<pnarciso> partitions still appear duplicated on thunar and desktop
<bluesabre_> ochosi: Your workaround being the 2px window borders, or have you found another fix?
<ochosi> bluesabre_: yeah, that.
<ochosi> bluesabre_: i'll first try more elaborate versions/combinations of using the transparent outer-pixel
<ochosi> maybe i can find a way to get it working
<ochosi> but i'm rather pessimistic tbh
<bluesabre_> That might be an interesting approach
<bluesabre_> :D
<ochosi> well, the weird thing is that for the bottom it works
<ochosi> i already use the transparent px there
<ochosi> but for right and left it creates those corruptions
<bluesabre_> ah, gotcha
<ochosi> i think i might've to increase the border around the whole thing to make it look ok
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09112012-065413pm.php
<pnarciso> top and bottom must be increased
<bluesabre_> Wow, it would be nice if they fixed the xserver bug :)
<knome> ochosi, yeah
<knome> ochosi, true dat (the screenshot)
<knome> and documentation too, but that i already mentally knew
<knome> http://typewith.me/p/x-q-beta2-prep
<elfy> knome - are there any other changes to see than removing gnumeric? 
<elfy> s/seed
<knome> we removed gimp and gnumeric
<knome> those are the big changes
<knome> in addition, we dropped mahjongg, two languages (fr+xh) and korean fonts
<knome> that brought us under 700 on i386
<knome> still a few megs oversized on amd64
<elfy> ok - just going to go through the new docs for gnumeric/gimp then 
<knome> ok, thanks
<knome> i should get started with the docs conversion to docbook
<knome> if anybody wants to help...
<knome> (it's just xml, and the syntax is really easy to grasp, maybe could work on it together on a pad or so)
 * elfy has never ever looked at it - nor xml 
<knome> well, it's easy to to grasp, if you're familiar even with (x)html only
<elfy> sorry - you'd spend more time showing me I suspect 
<knome> i don't think so :D
<knome> converting takes a human age.. ;)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> if I could pick it up then I'll look
<knome> let's say copy-pasting stuff to the pad would help a bunch :D
<knome> let's see if i'm up to it sometime when you are online
<elfy> oh right - I expect I can manage that 
<knome> the good thing is that the docs won't build if there are errors ;)
<knome> so we *will* get it right
<elfy> okey doke - I'm busy tomorrow - but other than that I'm mostly about 
<knome> okay, good to know
<knome> don't want to pour too much on your glass, but don't want to burn out myself either :D
<elfy> ping me - if I'm about I'll answer 
<elfy> #ubuntuforums is a good place to look for me if I am not here 
<knome> mm-hmm
<elfy> yep - I understand 
<knome> i'll find you by your nick when the night falls >:)
<elfy> :)
<elfy> you want to remove references to either completely - or just word it "you can install" instead of "installed by default" 
<elfy> knome: ^^
<knome> maybe "you can install" for gnumeric, but remove completely for gimp
<elfy> ok
<elfy> knome: did gimp - gnumeric was just done it seems
<knome> elfy, heh, ok :)
<knome> thanks
<SkippersBoss> i do have some uses
<elfy> I saw that :)
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-12
<Unit193> knome: Sorry to be a bother (who'd guess?), but what was the standpoint of having a xubuntu without additional packages?
<pleia2> knome: oh hey, you owe me a "powered by Xubuntu" sticker
<pleia2> (design)
<knome> Unit193, can you elaborate; what do you mean?
<Unit193> knome: Package that just had default settings, artwork, etc rather than abiword and the rest of the default programs.
<knome> so why didn't we drop the default stuff you mean?
<Unit193> No, a different metapackage.
<knome> shimmer-themes?
<Sysi> at some point somebody suggested that there would be minimal-xubuntu metapackage created
<knome> right
<knome> yeah, we can still do that
<knome> but was that the question? :)
<Unit193> Wasn't that becauase of alternate, and it'd lessen the pull on lower connections?  Yes.
<knome> ah yeah, now i remember the whole discussion
<Unit193> ...I don't yet. :P
<knome> the idea was to provice a minimal package for those, who use the minimal installer, and don't want to install xubuntu-dekstop
<knome> that does effectively mean you have less to pull
<knome> but there was no discussion about including it anywhere by default; because we still think that a few applications do add to the "xubuntu experience" so much that we don't want to drop them from the default ISO/installation
<Sysi> we could just add guide for installing xfce4+xubuntu-default-settings
<knome> yes, i think that would produce pretty much the same results, though we should definitely check that it does
<Sysi> some panel plugins might be missing
<ochosi> it's not entirely useless to have a few apps by default in the live install
<ochosi> i know people who use livesticks to work sometimes
<knome> ochosi, can you suggest something for the abiword slide?
<ochosi> knome: a new equivalent screenshot?
<knome> ochosi, that, and the text needs to be changed
<ochosi> yup
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/branding_exports/slideshow_office.png ?
<ochosi> yeah, sounds good to me
<knome> do you want the shot to be updated?
<knome> i'm going to file an UIFe today
<ochosi> well it would be nice
<ochosi> since it's the only inconsistent one atm
<ochosi> knome: i'll do the screener for you if you want
<knome> yeah, that would be nice
<knome> 450x330
<ochosi> knome: http://imagebin.org/228117
<knome> mmh, good, thanks
<knome> hmm wait
<knome> old shade button?
<ochosi> meh
<knome> haha
<ochosi> no, it's the menu button
<knome> i can fix that
<ochosi> in our default layout there is no shade button in that place
<knome> aha
<knome> d'oh
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> so it's in fact _your_ bad, not mine (this time)
<knome> i'll leave it
<knome> :P
<ochosi> anyway, i don't think anyone will notice or complain
<knome> meh
<knome> i'll fix it
<ochosi> knome: btw, i have the workaround for the xfwm4 theme ready in my vbox
<knome> aha :)
<knome> that's 2px?
<ochosi> so in case we decide to go forward with it, i can push it pretty much anytime
<ochosi> like this: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09122012-011059pm.php
<knome> ack
<ochosi> i think it looks bearable
<ochosi> not as nice as should be
<knome> definitely
<ochosi> but what can you do
<knome> terminal is the only killjoy
<knome> well, you can fi Xorg... ;)
<knome> fix too
<ochosi> yeah, terminal doesn't look extremely nice with it
<ochosi> i could add the 1px inner border at the bottom too
<knome> dunno
<ochosi> but for most other windows apart from term i think it's better this way
<knome> yeah
<knome> your call, i'm fine with either
<ochosi> well, with 16:9 resolutions being so popular, let's not waste vertical pixels ;)
<knome> k
<mr_pouit> knome: hey, any news about indicator-sound (it hasn't been reviewed yet)
<mr_pouit> +?
<knome> mr_pouit, bug # ?
<mr_pouit> knome: Bug #1048217 (ido-gtk2 has been accepted, indicator-sound-gtk2 is still stuck in NEW)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1048217 in Ubuntu "[FFe] Re-introduce indicator-sound-gtk2/ido-gtk2" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048217
<ochosi> hey mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> hey
<ochosi> we still have to fix ubiquity and lightdm wrt wallpaper
<ochosi> and i was wondering whether we should just have a symlink pointing to the current wallpaper always
<ochosi> so that we don't have to submit patches to ubiquity for each release
<mr_pouit> yeah, or we can replace the wp each time
<mr_pouit> but a symlink works for Ã¹e
<mr_pouit> *me
<ochosi> (although, to be fair, with this one it's a bit problematic because we will have to use 2 different wallpapers for xfdesktop and lightdm/plymouth)
<ochosi> so: the "normal" wp with the 4 dots in the right bottom corner is for xfdesktop and ubiquity
<knome> mr_pouit, fw'd
<ochosi> a dotless wp will have to be used for plymouth and lightdm, because they don't scale the wp correctly yet
<knome> mr_pouit, will be processed today
<mr_pouit> okay, great, thanks
<knome> np
<knome> mr_pouit, see http://typewith.me/p/x-q-beta2-prep
<ochosi> knome: can you pls put the dotless wp somewhere with a bugreport?
<ochosi> so that mr_pouit can pull it
<knome> meh
<knome> i'll attach it to the old bugreport
<knome> i'll export it now
<ochosi> in return, i'll do the merge-request for ubiquity
<mr_pouit> "Loading..."
<mr_pouit> am i supposed to see something :P
<ochosi> mr_pouit: so how shall we handle the wp issue with the symlinks and all?
<knome> mr_pouit, lol, it's just etherpad failing again
<mr_pouit> I'll add a symlink, xubuntu-wallpaper.png, or whatever name you prefer (omg-ponies.png, knome-is-not-gnome.png)
<knome> haha
<ochosi> omg-ponies plz
<knome> i prefer the latter
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, then i'll point ubiquity to xubuntu-wallpaper as soon as that's fixed/uploaded
<Unit193> Don't get that confused with the xfcenotifyd theme.
<ochosi> ok, then omg-bronies instead
<knome> that's another +0.5MB :P
<ochosi> drop old wps :)
<ochosi> then you'll actually save space
<knome> worksfor me
<knome> +" " or -" "
<knome> do we have a package that reintroduces them on install?
<knome> shimmer-wallpapers exists?
<ochosi> alternatively xubuntu-wallpapers-old
<knome> whatever
<mr_pouit> I'm not introducing yet another package at this point, enough of that :3
<knome> yeah, not this cycle
<knome> i was just wondering if such exists
<knome> but i'm still ok with dropping the old wallpapers, because we need the space really much
<knome> mr_pouit, bug 1043170 has new attachment
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1043170 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Update Xubuntu wallpaper for Quantal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1043170
<knome> we will probably need an UIFe for the Plymouth change, since that still has the old wall?
<ochosi> so yeah, we need this ^ for lightdm as well now
<ochosi> oh, i mean
<mr_pouit> then I'll replace the old filename with a symlink to the new wp
<knome> lightdm is bugfix obviously
<mr_pouit> No need to fix ubiquity then
<knome> but plymouth not, since that actually has the P wall...
<ochosi> yeah, i'm taking care of ubiquity
<ochosi> that
<ochosi> 's fine
<ochosi> just plymouth and lightdm for you, mr_pouit 
<mr_pouit> ochosi: no need to fix ubiquity if I add the symlink
<knome> i've asked for an ACK for UIFe for that
<ochosi> mr_pouit: yeah, but if you create a symlink now that points to xubuntu-greybird or whatever the old name was, then we'll have to fix it again next cycle
<mr_pouit> next cycle we'll change where the symlink points to
<ochosi> "xubuntu-precise-right.png" is not a very cool general name in ubiquity
<mr_pouit> and ubiquity will still be happy
<knome> hehe
<knome> agreed with ochosi...
<knome> but doesn't ubiquity have the new wallpaper already?
<knome> or not?
<knome> and does plymouth have it then?
<knome> am i mistaken
<mr_pouit> I don't care whether it sounds cool or not (:
<mr_pouit> knome: only-ubiquity doesn't
<knome> aha, but plymouth does?
<mr_pouit> (live session and plymouth and lightdm are ok -- except they use the wp with dots)
<knome> ok
<knome> i'm still waiting for a release team member to ack the UIFe
<knome> and yeah, i'd like the wallpaper names to be more generic too
<mr_pouit> knome: that'd be great if you could ask the release team to clarify the remote login feature of lightdm (acked by FFe). It seems to be on by default, it seems to require some code in the greeter, so I'd say it has been introduced without any thought for greeters other than unity-greeter :)
<knome> ack'ed the UIFe, so feel free to go ahead with the wallpapers
<knome> mr_pouit, what's your worry?
<mr_pouit> I may be mistaken, but all this stuff is starting to annoy me
<knome> maybe you could ask yourself? (:
<mr_pouit> yeah, right :P
<knome> :P
<knome> what's your worry then?
<mr_pouit> mmh, no, it'll be fine I guess
<mr_pouit> lightdm will have remote login enabled, but users won't be able to use it with lightdm-gtk-greeter
<mr_pouit> that's all
<mr_pouit> so nothing to annoy the release team with
<knome> heh, ok
<knome> i don't even want to count the amount of UIFe's this time
<knome> ochosi, now that mr_pouit is around, should we tell him to push the fix to grey/blackbird? (:
<knome> ochosi, or do you want to wait if xorg is magically fixed?
<knome> mr_pouit, can we ulink the non-xubuntu-specific bugs from https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-xfce-410
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey knome
<bluesabre> that was fast
<knome> hehe
<knome> sometimes i am, sometimes i'm not...
<bluesabre> What's up?
<knome> filing UIFe's :D
<knome> and looking at http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/ and seeing xubuntu has the best percentage, and definitely not the least work items either
<ochosi> knome: so you wanna go ahead with the workaround for xfwm4 themes anyway?
<smartboyhw> OMG Xubuntu has 85% while others are below 55% Good job really I took off my hat to knome and others:)
<knome> ochosi, well no, but looking at next week, i don't think there's big possibilities i'm going to have time to investigate it
<knome> ochosi, and it's really late in the cycle anyway, we can just revert for R if the xorg bug is fixed
<ochosi> ok, so i guess i'll have to attach patches to the bugreports
<ochosi> shall we fix the default xfwm4 theme from upstream as well?
<bluesabre> wowza
<knome> yeah, but i don't think you need an UIFe
<bluesabre> 50.42 workitems must be completed per day
<knome> it's a bugfix...
<bluesabre> That's crazy
<knome> ochosi, upstream being?
<ochosi> the xfce xfwm4 default theme
<knome> right
<knome> hmph
<mr_pouit> knome: done, and set as completed
<knome> if you wish to
<knome> mr_pouit, thanks :)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: so, about those xfwm4 problems...
<knome> bluesabre, not for xubuntu ;)
<bluesabre> Yeah, I know
<ochosi> mr_pouit: shall i just link to the respective commits in git or what would you prefer?
<bluesabre> Still, its a pretty impressive number
<knome> ok, so only 4 blueprints not finished
<ochosi> yeah, and how many postponed? ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> a few only
<ochosi> well, "a few" :)
<knome> 22 work items
<knome> not too bad
<knome> that's 87 done if we finish the rest
<knome> we only *filed* 75 last cycle
<knome> and postponed 12, so 63
<knome> 24 work items done more
<knome> though you can't really compare, 1 != 1
<knome> but we have those monster items this cycle, like "rewrite offline docs"
<knome> and i think we were able to improve this time too
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> the big silence because everyone is secretly watching apple's event...
<elfy> apple ducking? 
<Sysi> I won't have money to get iphone for at least a year
<bluesabre> nah, I'm watching One Piece
<bluesabre> ... secretly
<pleia2> the apple event is a block away from me, shall I go downstairs and report live?
<Sysi> I think it ended already
<pleia2> oh ok
<elfy> only if there's reall aple dunking involved pleia2 
<pleia2> it messes up local traffic in my neighborhood, very annoying
<Sysi> (I followed trough IRC)
<pleia2> I am actually working today so I haven't paid attention
<ochosi> i think they have new everything, they re-invented everything and no-one "in the industry" has ever made anything alike before
<ochosi> (except samsung, but apple only agree to that in court)
<pleia2> turns out I'm happy with the cheap knockoffs 5 years later
<Sysi> zombie pride (N9)
<pleia2> (plus I like open source, so...)
<ochosi> pleia2: really, you like opensource? isn't that kinda weird..? =)
<pleia2> buncha hippies
<ochosi> hehe, exactly
<Sysi> android UI isn't bad even if none of them is really good either.. but I don't want to hear "try flashing this custom rom" ever
<Sysi> unless it's under five click operation
<Sysi> I've used desktop linux long enough to know how trying to tweak things usually ends :P
<ochosi> in a perfect user-experience? (:
<Sysi> yeaah, that
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-13
<ochosi> call for testing: please â those of you who have a VM or some way of testing 12.10 â please test our gtk themes from git
<ochosi> there'll be an upload tomorrow and it would be nice to have everything in order for beta2
<smartboyhw> Where is it?
<ochosi> github.com/shimmerproject/
<smartboyhw> Ah the shimmer project
<ochosi> there you can download all the themes
<smartboyhw> Er which one is it?
<ochosi> albatross, greybird, bluebird and blackbird
<smartboyhw> I mean which one you want me to test? I can't test all:)
<ochosi> why not? :)
<ochosi> actually testing all would be what is needed
<smartboyhw> Piff ok
<ochosi> well if you can't, you can't
<ochosi> but that's what i'm looking for
<ochosi> also, be sure to change the window-manager theme accordingly
<ochosi> just to be sure, that those work as well
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> How to install?!!?!/
<smartboyhw> ochosi: I'm no good in themes:)
<ochosi> download the tarball, unpack to /home/$user/.themes
<ochosi> create the folder if it doesn't exist
<smartboyhw> OK
<smartboyhw> Er!? I git cloned it
<ochosi> that's also fine
<ochosi> you can git clone the dirs into .themes directly or create a symlink
<smartboyhw> So just copy the dir into .themes? OK
<ochosi> g2g now, bb
<ochosi> l
<olbi> hello
<olbi> where I could change language text in Xubuntu slide show?
<smartboyhw> Hi mrpouit
<knome> smartboyhw, do you have something you should discuss with mr pouit?
<smartboyhw> No...
<olbi> Why in Session File there isn't Reboot?
<GridCube> knome, maybe i've lost a meeting or two or some mails, but its the desicion about droping alternate isos taken?
<GridCube> should i add a question about that to the faq?
<ochosi> knome: i think we should at least consider shipping geary (mailclient) in 13.04
<GridCube> ochosi, its there any topic you think i should adress on the faq?
<ochosi> GridCube: you mean to http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq/ ?
<GridCube> yes
<ochosi> well specifically in 12.10 we might have to address the regressions
<ochosi> messaging-menu will be gone
<GridCube> ochosi, ok ill add an entry for it on the draft im making at the xubuntu.org wordpress
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> i'll think whether there's more
<GridCube> :) 
<GridCube> ochosi, if you can drop some knowledge there it will be really helpful
<ochosi> about the messaging-menu or anything else as well?
<elfy> is messaging menu going to make a triumphant return at any point? 
<GridCube> anything you think is important
<ochosi> elfy: i think as soon as we have a gtk3 panel, so...
<elfy> okey doke - ty ochosi 
<GridCube> or a tip you might have to make people happy :P
<ochosi> heh, o
<ochosi> k
<GridCube> :)
<ochosi> do you have a draft for the 12.10 version yet?
<elfy> is the doubling of partition icons going to be fixed? - if not that might be a thing to tell people 
<GridCube> ochosi, i've just drafted it
<ochosi> elfy: no clue, haven't really followed that bug
<ochosi> GridCube: i guess the themes should all work now pretty perfectly, so #9 from the 12.04 faq won't have to be repeated for 12.10
<elfy> it's very annoying - almost enough to make think about coding lol 
<elfy> but I don't complain as I can't code - so I report bugs and wait :)
<GridCube> i dont think we have repeated a question in neither of the awesome 2 faqs we have :P
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> actually i think they're really useful
<ochosi> was reading them for the first time now
<GridCube> :)
<elfy> ooh - I found something out - the thunar slow deal - if you run gksudo thunar - it's even slower, if you run gksu-properties and change screen grabbing mode to disable - it's normal speed
<elfy> now whether than does anything else I've not noticed
<bluesabre> btw, ochosi, checking out Geary, and I agree that we should consider it for R.  It looks good and feels pretty darn snappy :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: there are still a few issues with it, but i hope they'll get sorted till the next release (0.2=
<bluesabre> Yeah.  I'm working on the display dialog atm :D
<ochosi> oh, cool
<ochosi> where are you at?
<ochosi> btw, i can ask nick for git access so we can push a branch there
<bluesabre> Right now I'm just updated the glade files to add what we want.
<ochosi> sounds good
<ochosi> do you wanna create a todo-list so we can split tasks or shall we just hack away?
<ochosi> (i guess for my contributions i'll have to wait till we have git access anyway since you started already :) )
<bluesabre> Wireless died
<bluesabre> ochosi: Do you have those fancy minimal view images on hand?
<ochosi> bluesabre: minimal view?
<bluesabre> ochosi: the 128s from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/MultipleMonitors?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=minimal.png
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> i'll dig them u
<ochosi> p
<ochosi> do you want them with the border and bg, or just the icons on transparent bg?
<ochosi> (i still have the svg, so however you prefer)
<bluesabre> transparent bg, or I can use the ones that I just stole from your screenshot
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> just a sec, i'll send them
<bluesabre> ok
<Sysi> there aren't usable icons in icon themes? (hardcoding icons doesn't seem like best solution)
<ochosi> Sysi: no, not for this
<ochosi> this is a bit too specific
<ochosi> but feel free to check the freedesktop.org icon spce
<ochosi> soec
<ochosi> gah
<ochosi> specification
<Sysi> spec doesn't really matter if there's exactly one icon theme with those icons
<ochosi> but if it's not in the spec, then it _does_ matter
<bluesabre> ochosi: Well, I can at least make it look right in glade :)
<bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/228317
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> that's exactly how i pictured it
<ochosi> maybe add a cancel button
<ochosi> just in case someone doesn't want to use the secondary display
<ochosi> bluesabre: i think i'll redraw those icons just to be sure
<ochosi> i'm not happy with how they're scaling here
<bluesabre> Sure thing
<ochosi> also: we need a desaturated version of it when a display is switched off
<ochosi> (if we do the fancy version of the display dialog)
<GridCube> what program are you using bluesabre ? dia?
<bluesabre> GridCube glade?
<GridCube> oh
<GridCube> D: will look at it
<bluesabre> Glade is pretty handy
<bluesabre> although it's probably 1000x less crashy with gtk3
<ochosi> heh
<bluesabre> ochosi: In your mockup, what does "Presentation Mode" do?
<ochosi> bluesabre: supposedly it switches off the screensaver etc
<bluesabre> oh god
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> we'll see
<ochosi> i think the power-manager first needs an update for that
<ochosi> (i mean it does have a presentation mode, but no dbus interface to change modes afaik)
<Morroque> Wow. Xubuntu is going to have multiscreen support?
<knome> Morroque, what do you mean? xubuntu has supported multiple screens since the first world war at least
<Morroque> Huh. I never came across it.
<Morroque> Oh well. Something new learned every day, ar.
 * knome is using 2 screens with xubuntu right now
<knome> don't tell me we don't support it! :)
<Morroque> I probably would be doing the same myself, provided I can figure out where my one HDMI cable got to.
<knome> mmh, good luck in the searchings
<Sysi> may the odds be ever in your favor
<ochosi> bluesabre: almost done with completely redrawing it
<Unit193> SkippersBoss: Hah.
<Unit193> Bleh, not SkippersBoss, Sysi...
<SkippersBoss> xcuse ??
 * SkippersBoss here
<Unit193> Wrong tab-complete, sorry mate.
<SkippersBoss> aha
<SkippersBoss> I ve used that excuse b4
<SkippersBoss> ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: File-roller having two levels of menus isn't a theme glitch, I'd guess.
<ochosi> Unit193: screenshot?
<Unit193> http://unit193.ninth.su/file-roller.png
<Unit193> (I mean, happens in BB and AB)
<ochosi> Unit193: is that in 12.10?
<Unit193> Yes sir.
<ochosi> oh lord
<ochosi> gtk3 is kicking our asses
<ochosi> i fear this might be the gmenu of gnome3
<Unit193> Ewwww... BlueB looks bad with that...
<Unit193> You (really( want people to see the default button in Grey.
<bluesabre> ochosi: Last I checked, file-roller was the only gtk3 app doing that.  maybe it's in transition to just be app menu?
<ochosi> that would be even worse i guess
<bluesabre> lol
<ochosi> then we really need to push sarts and cavalier to finish squeeze
<bluesabre> btw, display-setting builds with the new glade files at least, gotta add and tweak the functionality now
<ochosi> coolio
<ochosi> and btw, we already have push access to xfce git
<ochosi> so feel free to push :)
<ochosi> then i can also update the icons myself
<Unit193> Now it{s just the two annoying errors.
<ochosi> Unit193: did you notice any other theme problems in 12.10?
<Unit193> Theme'wise_  Not that I saw.  Just did evince, abiword, and file'roller though.
<ochosi> ok, thanks for lookig
<ochosi> looking
<bluesabre> ochosi: If I made a new git branch locally, switched to it, changed and committed, when I push, will it push my new branch?
<ochosi> yeah, it should
<ochosi> although the syntax should be git push origin $branch
<ochosi> (iirc)
<ochosi> bluesabre: do you think i should add numbers to the screens?
<ochosi> or is it self-explanatory enough as is
<bluesabre> numbers might help
<bluesabre> ochosi: that didn't work for me
<bluesabre> Could you create a branch that I can checkout and push to?
<Unit193> http://paste.ukikie.tk/?a4dbc5a1e8ec7d77#TUxlwf6XFAYlFLaTvLoJZ/i8CVWAV3xsfd694MjONts=  Two errors, one pasted twice.
<ochosi> bluesabre: okies, one sec
<bluesabre> I'm probably doing something wrong
<pnarciso> hey ppl
<bluesabre> hiya pnarciso
<ochosi> hi
<ochosi> bluesabre: did you clone the repo via ssh:// or git:// ?
<bluesabre> git clone ssh://git@git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> that should be fine then
<bluesabre> git branch bluesabre/display-settings
<bluesabre> tweaks
<bluesabre> ^ not tweaks
<bluesabre> git checkout bluesabre/display-settings
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> was just about to say...
<bluesabre> git commit -m "..."
<bluesabre> tweaks before that commit actually
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> I suck at documenting my history
<ochosi> yeah, i get it ;:)
<bluesabre> git push
<pnarciso> so, what are you guys discussing
<bluesabre> Everything up-to-date
<ochosi> bluesabre: git push origin bluesabre/display-settings
<ochosi> pnarciso: improving xfce's display dialog
<ochosi> pnarciso: starting to implement this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/MultipleMonitors
<bluesabre> yay!
<bluesabre> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/log/?h=bluesabre/display-settings
<ochosi> bluesabre: congrats ;)
<pnarciso> I had a triple monitor system a few months back, but I've switched to single 27 " monitor
<pnarciso> The support in linux back then was very bad
<pnarciso> Dunno if it's improved
<ochosi> bluesabre: have you already replaced the mirror icon?
<ochosi> pnarciso: well you're referring to the drivers i assume, we're talking about configuration dialogs
<pnarciso> ok
<bluesabre> ochosi: not yet
<ochosi> bluesabre: k, then i'll do it
<knome> hey micahg :)
<micahg> hi knome
<knome> image sizes looking definitely better :)
<Unit193> cheese has some nasy depends, I don{t think we can include as is, though it isn{t quite as bad with no'install'recommends.  camorama isn{t as bad with only needing 6719K installed.
<knome> Unit193, ONLY 6.7MB? you crazy...
<micahg> no new apps this cycle please :)
<knome> Unit193, and your apostrophes fail
<Unit193> knome: vs 52.9 with cheese no recommends. I know, that{s not all.
<Unit193> micahg: Juuust looking at he specs.
<knome> micahg, we're still going to drop a few wallpapers with another update to the current wallpapers, so let's see how close we are then...
<knome> micahg, probably good with dropping another game or two
<knome> micahg, or something similar...
<SkippersBoss> who is doing that dual hea thing
<knome> SkippersBoss, what do you mean with "doing" ?
<knome> using dual monitors, or working on the monitor dialog?
<SkippersBoss> the roadmap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/MultipleMonitors
<SkippersBoss> Saw it come by earlier
<ochosi> SkippersBoss: i wrote it and bluesabre and me are starting to implement parts of it now
<knome> astraljava was at least working on it, but he's been quite inactive lately...
<SkippersBoss> Ah ok
<knome> right
<knome> ochosi, for R i imagine? ;)
<ochosi> knome: no, for xfce ;)
<knome> aha
<knome> so, R...
<SkippersBoss> very interested in how this is getting along as i currently have some difficulties with my dual head setup
<SkippersBoss> :-)
<ochosi> knome: nah, not really interested in the release-pressure this time
<knome> :P
<SkippersBoss> gotcha
<knome> well, i'm sure it'll be ready for R if you already started :P
<pleia2> knome: shall we do a meeting on wednesday?
<pleia2> just for fun
<knome> pleia2, "just for laughs" ?
<pleia2> that too
<knome> well yeah, i suppose that'd work.
<pleia2> ok, I'll put it on the calendar
<knome> thanks
<knome> also want to announce it on mailing list?
<knome> i can update twitter
<pleia2> sure
<knome> thanks
<knome> i believe 15UTC is still our time
<knome> :)
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> micahg, if you could attend the meeting next wednesday at 15UTC, we could do last minute changes to the seed if needed
<micahg> yeah, should be fine
<knome> we got to do good testing for b2
<knome> ok, great
 * micahg will be off Mon and Tue though
<knome> i will make sure i can attend too
<knome> np, we can always bugger mrpouit meanwhile (:
<pleia2> I'll be MIA on Monday too (and the following Wednesday, 26th)
<bluesabre> heading out, bbl
<pleia2> knome: btw: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2012-September/016827.html
<pleia2> note the "it rarely works to push merges or other changes through at the last minute" :)
<knome> heh
<knome> yeah
<knome> i know
<knome> that's why i usually push them overtime, so much less crowd then
 * knome hides
<pleia2> hahaha
<pleia2> no cookie
<knome> well yeah, i should lose weight anyway
<knome> pleia2, so, is that guy from the -doc mailing list @ irc?
<pleia2> Jun 29 22:05:30 2012 (10 weeks, 5 days, 22:59:18 ago)
<pleia2> not so much
<pleia2> he's Rocket2DMn when he does log on though
<knome> meh :(
<pleia2> jbicha is pretty much the de facto leader these days, he's on irc
<knome> you could point him to our current progress
<pleia2> I think mdke is the proper leader, but he's super busy
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/+junk/xubuntu-docs
<pleia2> sweet
<knome> you could also pull that yourself
<knome> i can help building, if you have time
<pleia2> I have 24 minutes
<pleia2> let's go
<knome> (it's really easy...)
<knome> ok
<knome> bzr branch lp:~knome/+junk/xubuntu-docs 
<pleia2> got that part :)
<knome> sudo apt-get install gnome-doc-utils docbook docbook-utils
<knome> then go to the branch and run 'make'
<knome> after that, look at build/
<knome> tbe, build/index.html in a browser
<knome> so at least it builds, and i think i'm quite good with docbook syntax already...
<pleia2> file:///home/elizabeth/xubuntu/xubuntu-docs/build/index.html :)
<knome> the only thing i'm completely baffled is how the translations are supposed to work
<pleia2> yeah, I haven't a clue when it comes to translations
<knome> so that's something i need help with
<knome> and also
<knome> "how will this work on a real installation"
<knome> pleia2, see desktop-guide/guide-keeping-safe/C/guide-keeping-safe.xml
<pleia2> someone makes xubuntu-docs into a package and xubuntu-docs gets updated
<knome> (in a text editor
<knome> )
<pleia2> ok
<knome> if you are at all at home with x(ht)ml, you'll be quite home with docbook too
<knome> the syntax is the same, just different tags
<knome> which you can pick up relatively fast
<pleia2> there was a reason I never told you that my first foss contribution was writing documentation in docbook for bitlbee
<knome> haha...
<knome> well, we might need your help >:)
<pleia2> allllright
<knome> not because i'm not *able* to do it, but we might be a bit short on time
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> no hurry yet, but maybe we can do an etherpad-based hacking session
<pleia2> ok
<knome> so you kind of lied to us all
<knome> awwh! :D
<knome> :)
<pleia2> nah :)
<pleia2> it's XML so I look at what is there and duplicate it in other sections
<knome> yep
<knome> so, when should we have the first session?
<knome> tomorrow works pretty much all day for me, if you're up to it...
<pleia2> I suppose I can wake up at 15:00 UTC and spend an hour
<knome> is that 5am for you? :D
<pleia2> 8
<knome> oh, ok
<knome> then i suppose i can let you do that
 * pleia2 sets alarm for 7:55
<knome> i'll try to be around too
<knome> that's one of the times i'm not 110% sure if i'm at home
<pleia2> ok
<knome> we should actually look first through the new reviews and need-reviews
<knome> i could try to do it before going to sleep
<knome> or tomorrow daytime
<knome> http://typewith.me/p/x-q-docs-checkout is my checklist
<pleia2> ok, I'll try to summon the energy to look too
<knome> i could probably just go ahead now...
<pleia2> what's "Sub:"?
<knome> it's explained in the top :P
<pleia2> oh
<knome> "submitted for review by"
<pleia2> neato
<knome> so, that person can't review it
<knome> obviously..
<pleia2> gotcha
<knome> ok, it should be up to date now
<knome> pleia2, i suppose section 3 is at least relatively fine for docbook conversion
<Unit193> Are the docs for GUI only, at least generally?
<knome> yeah
<Unit193> Alright, thought was new dist release, do-release-upgrade, buuut.
<knome> GridCube, re: alternate images: the decision was made because not enough arguments for were raised, and nobody wasn't too worried about losing them
<Unit193> Man, I hate wikis...
<GridCube> ok. care to write a formal explanation or do you want me to do it and then review it, so i can add something consistent to the FAQ?
<knome> the official explanation:
<knome> not able to maintain them with this manpower, and most of their features are already available in desktop for 12.10 (only RAID missing)
<knome> and;
<GridCube> ok
<knome> if ubiquity doesn't work for you, please file a bug and we can get started with sorting out the problems with that and your hardware
<knome> and for alternative solutions:
<knome> there's also the minimal iso and netboot
<GridCube> i just dont want to write something that can bring us problems later :)
<knome> heh
<knome> i can/will naturally review what you wrote
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-August/008393.html
<knome> you probably know that, but that's the thread to follow
<Unit193> "Connecting to servers" should maybe s/servers/shares/  and pretty sure I'm not supposed to make comments on the page, like I just did... http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Upgrading%20from%20an%20older%20version%20of%20Xubuntu#preview
<knome> Unit193, just edit the page to read correctly
<knome> Unit193, it's a collaborative effort anyway
<ochosi> hm, so meeting on wednesday
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> well finally there's one thing we don't have to carry on (compositor off in ubiquity)
<knome> hehe
<pleia2> :)
<ochosi> so the doc-stuff is also coming to an end?
<knome> ochosi, we're going to destroy the doc-land.
<knome> so, yeah
<knome> we should be in a relatively good shape before the meeting
<knome> if we're not, some liquid material might end up in my pants
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> so docs for beta2?
<knome> or non-liquid too
<knome> yeah, the doc freeze is sep 20
<ochosi> btw, i think the themes are ready to be uploaded
<ochosi> Unit193 was kind enough to test them a bit
<ochosi> and me and satya also did our homework
<knome> tell that to our lovely mr. pouit
<ochosi> so hopefully that's it for this release
<ochosi> mrpouit: green light on uploading the themes, they've all gotten new (bugfix-)tags
<ochosi> knome, pleia2: could you quickly compare two icons for me?
<knome> ochosi, if it doesn't mean installing 100 packages and pushing 50 repositories and building Xorg and friends, yeah
<knome> s/pushing/pulling/
<ochosi> no, just a simple opinion
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> http://imagebin.org/228360
<ochosi> which one is better, left or right
<knome> what's it supposed to be depicting?
<ochosi> (this is with context: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09142012-125216am.php )
<knome> without numbers
<ochosi> and why?
<knome> cleaner, and the numbers aren't exactly making it more understandable
<knome> (not less understandable either)
<ochosi> well they should indicate what is the primary and what is the secondary monitor
<ochosi> i think that makes at least some sense
<knome> then make the non-primary monitor a bit less saturated
<knome> if you want to specifically point that out
<ochosi> hm, yeah, not sure, it's already larger
<ochosi> (mainly because i assume that usually the external display you connect will be physically larger
<ochosi> )
<knome> yeah, i don't mind it being the same
<knome> but if you want to make a difference between the monitors
<knome> or add a "star"/"blink" to the right-top corner
<knome> for the "new" monitor
<ochosi> humm
<ochosi> sry, don't see that working out :)
<knome> ok
<knome> i told my opinion already then ;)
<ochosi> heh, yep, thanks
<ochosi> knome: what do you generally think about getting a real dock for the next release? (instead of the launcher-panel)
<knome> ochosi, i don't like docks
<ochosi> why do we have something alike a dock, just less powerful, in xubuntu then?
<knome> ochosi, now, after that honest comment, do you want an opinion that you wanted to hear?
<knome> :)
<knome> i don't know.
<knome> i've been playing with non-100%-wide panels lately, and i think i like these
<ochosi> phu, now that's something _i_ never liked :)
<ochosi> it always made me feel like losing screen-estate
<ochosi> in the empty areas
<knome> well
<ochosi> if only the xfce panel had intelli-hide
<knome> if you have 90% panel
<knome> you can move the mouse to the extreme corner and right-click
<knome> ta-dah, there's your app menu
<knome> (i know, lousy)
<knome> but i use it like that
<knome> and you'll always have some space where to use the scrollmouse to change workspaces
<ochosi> yeah, sounds ok, but not as a default setting
<knome> yeah, i'm fine with full-width panels too
<ochosi> some ppl might consider the workspace-switching a bug :}
<knome> i know
<ochosi> anyway, i don't see the advantage
<ochosi> but hey, whatever works for you
<knome> hehe
<knome> well, it looks visually nice
<knome> i don't know why
<knome> maybe i just always need to see some blue on my monitor?
<ochosi> i proposed something different recently
<knome> i probably saw that, but dismissed for a reason or another
<ochosi> something like the wingpanel design elementary-folks proposed
<knome> xnox, hey
<knome> xnox, would you kindly set your nickserv pass as the server pass? ;)
<xnox> knome: why?
<knome> xnox, you're joining with three lines
<pnarciso> adding a real dock would be nice, if there were a real dock that won't rely on composite
<knome> 02:13 Â» xnox [~dmitrij@cpc4-slam5-2-0-cust14.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #xubuntu-devel
<knome> xnox, that ^
<knome> 02:13 Â» xnox [~dmitrij@cpc4-slam5-2-0-cust14.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host]
<knome> 02:13 Â» xnox [~dmitrij@ubuntu/member/xnox] has joined #xubuntu-devel
 * xnox meh
<knome> xnox, if you set the nickserv pass as the server pass, you'll be identified before joining channels, and that wouldn't happen
<ochosi> pnarciso: good point. i sometimes forget about that...
<knome> xnox, and you wouldn't need scripts to register
<ochosi> now you scared him off
<knome> hah
<knome> i'm sure...
<ochosi> i'd really love channel tab-autocomplete after /join in irssi
<ochosi> oho! fancy one-line join!
<ochosi> welcome back xnox
 * xnox pretends to be cool and all that jazz =)
<xnox> knome: thanks.
<knome> xnox, thank you, and no problem :)
<xnox> I have all those joins & parts, aways and nick changes removed from the output. too much noise =)
<Unit193> ochosi: How do you mean?  I can autocomplete after I've joined them.
<xnox> knome: but I can see how annoying it can be =)
<ochosi> xnox: btw, are you interested in xubuntu or just hanging our here for fun?
<xnox> not interested in xubuntu at all.
<knome> xnox, yeah, sometimes it actually means 5 or even 6 lines (if you are in a terminal with 80 width)
<xnox> it's purely social for me
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, autocomplete on join after having joined is kinda redundant
<knome> ochosi, add the channels to the channel list, and you'll have autocomplete
<Unit193> ochosi: Not as much as you'd think, it's an easy way to switch to the window and say the channel.
<xnox> I like chatting with pleia2 and other cool folks =)
<ochosi> xnox: yeah, ppl here tend to be nicer than in other channels 0:)
<knome> xnox, we have #xubuntu-offtopic for chatting, btw ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: i just use alt+$n for switching
<Unit193> ochosi: Can't do that as well with 70 windows, though there is a handy bunch of aliases.
<knome> Unit193, you probably should cut down on the stalking. and move to -ot :)
<ochosi> Unit193: good point, lucky i only have ~15
<pleia2> xnox fixes ubiquity, that's cool
<ochosi> yeah, i know :)
<ochosi> but only since a short while, when i started sniffing around ubiquity myself
<ochosi> that's why i secretly hoped he _would_ be in fact interested in xubuntu... we need more of the cool kids! :}
<knome> secretly, yeah right
<knome> we all saw through you
<knome> but we still should move to -ot
<ochosi> i only whispered it into my protecting unicorn's ear, i swear...
 * ochosi packs his stuff
<ochosi> it's too late to work for real anyway
<knome> heh, you still at work? :P
<knome> or were you referring to -devel only
<ochosi> i
<ochosi> 'm at the home-office ;)
<knome> (this isn't work, this is slavery)
<knome> don't forget that
<ochosi> brb
<xnox> Home Office that's posh it's all of the UK government =)
<knome> i have a home office too, and i even have a london tube map hanging on the wall ;)
 * knome brb too
<knome> smartboyhw, you too: set your nickserv pass as the server pass
<knome> smartboyhw, you'll avoid three-line joins
<knome> 02:28 Â» smartboyhw [~smartboyh@n112118156212.netvigator.com] has joined #xubuntu-devel
<knome> 02:28 Â» smartboyhw [~smartboyh@n112118156212.netvigator.com] has quit [Changing host]
<knome> 02:28 Â» smartboyhw [~smartboyh@sii/smartboyhw] has joined #xubuntu-devel
<smartboyhw> Now everybody is shooting at me about passwd and I have been killling myself on how to set up sasl
<knome> knome == everybody ??
<smartboyhw> not only you magte
<pleia2> knome: you really need to go on that diet
<smartboyhw> Also in #ubuntuforums
<knome> pleia2, haha... well said
<smartboyhw> diet?
<knome> smartboyhw, as in lose weight
<smartboyhw> Oh alright....I need to go on a diet too, I'm overweighted
<pleia2> it's only a problem when you start being mistaken for everybody
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-14
<koegs> mrpouit: any chance that this will be fixed at any point? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/+bug/992579
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 992579 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "XFCE4: Hotkey for "Maximize Window" ignored, Application Hotkeys delayed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> does all dvd's really need the libdvd* -packages?
<davmor2> knome: all movie dvds will require uncrypting with libdvdcss and libdvdread to correctly display the format
<knome> ok
<ochosi> knome: i'll be gone for most of the weekend. please remind mrpouit to upload the themes if needed :)
<ochosi> have a nice weekend everyone!
<knome> ow
<knome> hf
<knome> see you next week
<mips1911> Howz the bug fixes coming along, thinking of the xorg related one and gvfs duplicate icon issue
<bluesabre> mrpouit, catfish 0.4.0.2 now available :)  Fixes the live cd issue as well as others
<knome> pleia2, good morning sunshine!
<pleia2> making coffee
<knome> :)
<smartboyhw> :)
<smartboyhw> Looked at the quantal team meeting and found that the weekly status is missing for Xubuntu:)
<bluesabre> ochosi: If I remember correctly (it's been a little while now), I think I can hack manual subtitle selection into parole, by restarting the video.  Not the friendliest method, but do you think that it's necessarily bad?
<knome> smartboyhw, correct.
<knome> bluesabre, ochosi said he's out for the weekend
<bluesabre> missed that
<bluesabre> knome: thoughts?
<knome> bluesabre, http://temp.knome.fi/shimmer/parole/ntsc-fuzzy-text-4.png
<smartboyhw> Grrrr
<knome> bluesabre, if it works, and doesn't break stuff, i'm ok with it
<bluesabre> oh, that's not bad.  People will stop thinking its a bug then
<knome> bluesabre, exactly our motivation to create that
<knome> pleia2, you're late :P
<pleia2> yeah yeah :)
<knome> so, i converted sections 3 and 7 to docbook
<knome> i would actually rather want to look at other things than converting now, because:
<knome> i think section 4 needs to be rethinked
<knome> i mean, the structure
<knome> others are probably fine structure-wise, but it would be great if we could confirm that the pages are ok to convert so people could get to towkr
<knome> *work
<knome> the footnotes are unfortunately completely up-to-date
<knome> you will need to check our pad
<pleia2> I dunno, I think it's fine
<knome> the problem:
<pleia2> I think at this stage in the game we need to strive for accuracy rather than perfection
<knome> in the main page, we have subtitles
<knome> those will be shown as subsections
<knome> i'm proposing:
<knome> 1) move the "main" page under "a quick overview of the applications"
<knome> 2) move the media-related things under "media applications" (or sth)
<knome> that's a simple move
<knome> and yeah, i want accuracy too, but docbook has some limitations i don't know how to overcome, and we need to adapt to that
<pleia2> which "main" page?
<knome> open "quick guide to default applications"
<pleia2> right
<knome> if you looked at the built documentation, you'd notice that we are actually showing all subsections when you click a section or page
<pleia2> oh, I see
<knome> we are just linking to anchors inside those pages
<knome> we can revert to "show only one subsection", but we have some really short pages
<knome> and that's less optimal than having *long* pages imo :)
<knome> that's just one 1/0, so not a biggie
<knome> especially section 8 works much better this way imo
<pleia2> ok yeah, so we should create a "Media" top level like we have "Internet and Networks"
<knome> do you think so?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> works for me too
<pleia2> I think "Quick guide to default applications" can be its own thing without sub-pages
<pleia2> like "Keeping your computer safe" is
<knome> i think we actually had "media" previously
<knome> but yeah, that's fine too
<knome> we probably want to remove the "burning" page though
<knome> that only tells where you'll find xfburn :P
<knome> or: either remove, or extend
<pleia2> bah, I think it's ok
<pleia2> we can extend for 13.04
<knome> i think it's just redundant and more work for docbook conversion ;)
<knome> at least 5 lines...
<knome> if i'm the one converting that section, i will leave it out :P
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> ok, I'll find a way to put more words in it
<knome> hehe, good, thanks
<knome> apart from that, i think what we need is reviews now
<knome> section 2, if somebody could review that
<knome> (that one subpage)
<knome> section 5 too, but please look at the pad at http://typewith.me/p/x-q-docs-checkout
<knome> and i think section 6 is pretty much ready to go too
<knome> as well as 10 and 11
<pleia2> (i've been on the pad all morning, I'm the pink person!)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> 4 needs that structuring work
<knome> heh
<knome> did you know you can name yourself?
<pleia2> 4 is what we just talked about :)
<pleia2> I am named too
<knome> oh, you have
<knome> hehe
<knome> lol
<knome> no pink comments on the pad though ;)
<pleia2> that's because I'm slackin'
<knome> yeah
<knome> you should start workin'
<pleia2> alright, I'll work on the burning page now and then do some reviews
<knome> ok, thanks
<knome> i'll do the restructuring
<bluesabre> knome: For ubuntu package bugs (parole in ubuntu), do we mark as Fix Released when the package is available or when the version of ubuntu that package is shipping in (quantal) is released?
<micahg> bluesabre: when it lands in Ubuntu
<knome> restructuring done
<bluesabre> micahg: thanks
<knome> yeah, when a new ISO has that bug fixed
<knome> i'm off soonish
<bluesabre> Could somebody check if parole's system tray icon works in quantal?  It doesn't seem to work in the ppa version
<pleia2> how's 4 lines? :) http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Burning%20CDs%20and%20DVDs#preview
<knome> pleia2, still a bit bleh, but ok
<pleia2> well, it's more accurate now too
<knome> yeah
<knome> good good :)
<knome> ok, i'm almost flying already
<knome> got to go
<knome> thanks for the session, i think this clears much up
<knome> now others; start reviewing the final bits so we can convert them!
<knome> ->
<pleia2> k
<GridCube> :( i wont be able to attend the next meeting, i will be having an IRL one for my job
<SkippersBoss> hi all
<bluesabre> hey SkippersBoss
<SkippersBoss> have i missed anything today ??
<SkippersBoss> all packages still there ?
<bluesabre> As far as I know
<SkippersBoss> good
<jjfrv8> Looks like the behavior of the NetworkManager icon has changed back to left-click to edit/view connections. Anyone know if that's the way it's going to stay now?
<Sysi> is it in notification area or indicator?
<jjfrv8> I'm not sure of the difference. It's the up and down arrows to the left of the date on a default install.
<Sysi> nm-applet can be on notification area or indicator-network, click behaviour depends about which it's on
<jjfrv8> Sorry, I not a dev. I'm just working on the Help document. I just experimented and removed the notification area from the panel and that did not remove the icon...
<jjfrv8> Removing the Indicator plugin did.
<jjfrv8> If I add the Notification area back, I get another network icon with the arrows, but it behaves the opposite of the Indicator plugin.
<jjfrv8> The Indicator plugin icon seems to have changed behavior in the latest quantal build from last week. Which actually puts it back the way it was originally.
<micahg> indicators should be back on an up to date quantal
<micahg> save for the messaging indicator
<micahg> oh, and sound is still in NEW
<jjfrv8> micahg, if I get your drift, what I was seeing last week the result of a missing Indicator plugin and today after running latest updates, the Indicator came back...
<jjfrv8> and that's why it appears that the icon behavior has changed?
<micahg> yep
<jjfrv8> Ah.
<micahg> we had to drop the indicator plugin for beta 1
<micahg> and then we added it back once it was installable again
<jjfrv8> Okay, I'll go back and change my doc sections with those references again. :(
<pleia2> jjfrv8: isn't writing documentation for a development release fun? :)
<pleia2> (thanks for your patience)
<jjfrv8> No worries.
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-15
<knome> jjfrv8, hey :)
<jjfrv8> knome, Sorry, back now. Hi.
<knome> jjfrv8, no problem :)
<jjfrv8> knome, I think one of the only remaining sections I can do anything with is Scanning. I can't actually scan something but it looks like I can verify most things in the document.
<knome> jjfrv8, ok, that's cool
<jjfrv8> knome, I gotta go. Good luck!
<knome> jjfrv8, cheers, see you
#xubuntu-devel 2012-09-16
<knome> hey elfy 
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> elfy, want to review a few more doc pages? :]
<smartboyhw> lol
<elfy> knome: I can - which ones 
<knome> elfy, let me see
<knome> these are not submitted by you, so these are the only ones you can still review:
<knome> 5/Photos and Cameras
<knome> 6/Network connections
<knome> 6/Troubleshooting
<knome> 7/Printing
<knome> 7/Scanning
<knome> and that's it
<elfy> ok
<knome> thanks
<knome> i'll try to get more converted to docbook today again
<smartboyhw> Identify yourselves guys chanserv is back
 * knome is still identified
 * elfy is too
<smartboyhw> Well sure I didn't since I just joined and I can't identify when it is down mate
 * Unit193 is as always
<smartboyhw> lol
<knome> i suppose i should just start working with the docs...
<elfy> knome - just checking for englisg/grammar etc - I can't check scanning or prinitng for it working 
<knome> elfy, yeah, that's fine, and if you can check that the app paths are correct as much as you can...
<knome> (and menus)
<elfy> yep :)
<elfy> ok - back in a bit then :p
<knome> thanks!
 * knome goes converting another subsection to docbook
<elfy> knome: you want to know in here which I have checked or on the pad? if the pad - what's the link again :p
<knome> here is fine at this stahge :
<knome> stage and :P too
<elfy> scanning is done
<smartboyhw> elfy: You mean http://typewith.me/p/x-q-docs-checkout ?
<elfy> knome: printing done, troubleshooting done - but if network connections is "network connections" then troubleshooting should be "network troubleshooting" logically
<knome> ok, thanks
<knome> i'll fix that for the docs
<elfy> k
<elfy> knome: network connections done
<knome> ta
<elfy> knome: I've removed the image viewer bits that jackFromm temp struck out and that is all checked now too 
<knome> in what? :)
<knome> photos/cams?
<elfy> yea sorry - thought it would make sense as it was last one you asked me to check :)
<knome> hehe, yeah
<knome> ta
<elfy> should be just quick guide and upgrading left in Table of Contents not bold I think
<knome> yep
<knome> and not much that isn't underlined ;)
<elfy> underlined is ? converting to docbooks? 
<knome> underlined is converted
<knome> isap
<knome> heh
<elfy> cool
<knome> there goes my test-vbox pass :P
<elfy> lol
<elfy> so anything you want me to look at today knome ? 
<knome> umm.. not really after you done those reviews, unless you want to go adventurous and build the docs :D
<elfy> ... 
<elfy> not sure :p
<knome> yeah, you really don't need to
<elfy> ok lol 
<elfy> I'll go hae lunch instead then :)
<knome> ok, bon appetit :)
<knome> hey jjfrv8 :)
<jjfrv8> G'day.
<jjfrv8> knome, Looks like you're almost there :)
<knome> yeah, almost
<knome> hey bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hiya knome!
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> how is everyone today?
<knome> good
<elfy> ok now thanks 
<knome> working on the docbook conversions again
<bluesabre> making good progress?
<knome> quite
<knome> check the wiki
<elfy> knome: you not want upgrading and quick guide checked - or have they been done already
<knome> elfy, you've submitted them for review, so you can't review them ;)
<knome> bluesabre could...
<bluesabre> wowza
<Unit193> I took a look at upgrading one.
<elfy> aah - /me forgets stuff fairly quickly 
<Unit193> +the
<bluesabre> looks like we're almost there
<knome> bluesabre, exactly
<knome> Unit193, do you think it's ready to be published, or do you want somebody to still review it?
<bluesabre> I can have a look at quick guide
<knome> bluesabre, we should move the stuff in quick guide around
<knome> see how the internet -section is organized
<knome> i mean, inside the guide
<Unit193> knome: I think it was pretty much set, just made a couple changes.
<knome> Unit193, ok, i'll mark it as checked-out hten
<knome> then
<Unit193> Wouldn't hurt I'm sure, having another look. :P
<knome> well, all the pages are not going to be perfect anyway
<knome> so we'll probably get bugs, and we can fix them for Q or R
<elfy> that'll be a whole lot easier 
<knome> definitely
<bluesabre> knome, as far as moving things around, what are you shooting for with the other sections in the quick guide?
<knome> i mean, the first word should be the application bolded
<knome> and the link should be at the end
<knome> feel free to disagree :)
<bluesabre> ok, I thought that was what you meant.  Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything
<knome> heh, sure
<Unit193> elfy: If you wanted to look at the diff, and see if I changed something in error? :P
<elfy> there are 2 links in that page that go to empty pages - media applications adnd libreoffice
<elfy> Unit193: if it's needed 
<knome> elfy, yeah, you can dismiss that
<elfy> dismiss or remove ?
<knome> LO is because the wiki markup (CamelCase creates links)
<knome> and media apps is fixed in docs
<knome> so just dismiss, it will be okay
<elfy> I thought bluesabre was looking anyway - so I was just saying :)
<knome> np
<knome> good to make sure
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> so that means you're not currently editing, right elfy?
<elfy> yep
<bluesabre> Cool, thanks
<elfy> not editing anything at all 
<knome> so update manager is "software updater" in Q?
<knome> i need to fix that
<knome> done
<knome> ok, all but 4 subsections converted
 * bluesabre wonders if we really need to link to the core xfce/gnome apps websites
<knome> maybe not
<bluesabre> Done.  http://dagobah.princessleia.com/Xubuntu/12.10/Quick guide to default applications
<bluesabre> But yeah, who is honestly going to click the link for
<bluesabre> PulseAudio, Dictionary, Evince, Orage, Gigolo, Task Manager
<bluesabre> PulseAudio, maybe
<knome> bluesabre, feel free to drop links you don't think are necessary
<knome> and i don't even know if we should specifically list task manager :P
<knome> (unless we tell what it does, for starters)
<elfy> does not the name give it away 
<knome> kind of
<knome> but doesn't every OS have one?
<elfy> I'd have to assume so 
<bluesabre> I'd imagine that if a user doesn't know what it is, it's probably better for them to not know about the Task Manager
 * smartboyhw will click Orage and PulseAudio if I'm a beginner...
<bluesabre> Yeah, I opted to not remove links
<bluesabre> knome, elfy, others?  Wanna review the changes?
 * elfy can look
<elfy> looks ok to me 
<knome> looks fine to me
<elfy> though I wonder at the inclusion of Ibus - it's not to my knowledge mentioned anywhere else 
<knome> so isn't task manager ;]
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> yeah, not sure about that one, but people might be curious as to what it is (now that I read that section, I finally know what its for)
<elfy> and actually don't you have to install pavu? 
<elfy> now I come to think about it
<bluesabre> I have no idea
<elfy> not in xubuntu-desktop so I assume not
<elfy> but anyway - as it stands - it looks ok :)
<knome> take that, docbook
<knome> only one section left to convert
<bluesabre> booyah
 * smartboyhw adds oil on knome
<smartboyhw> add oil = give support:)
<olbi> hello
<olbi> who is responsible for translating slides during installation of Xubuntu 12.10? :)
<knome> olbi, the community
<SkippersBoss> knome, i send something through the e-mail list
<SkippersBoss> I was told i was blocked. Did you see it ??
<knome> SkippersBoss, i believe it's simply in the queue
<knome> SkippersBoss, have you subscribed to the list?
<SkippersBoss> thought i did
<SkippersBoss> its was my reactions towards the wish to scrap all outside references in the quick guide
<SkippersBoss> :-)
<SkippersBoss> sorry smiley went ino wrong window
<knome> oh well
<knome> it's converted to docbook now :)
<SkippersBoss> never mind then
<SkippersBoss> Your the boss
<SkippersBoss> I follow your lead here
<knome> i think it's good to point to external stuff, especially if they offer more user support than our docs
<SkippersBoss> That was my rationelle. Don't do double work
<pleia2> knome: yay!
<SkippersBoss> a ms ghana
<SkippersBoss> when are you leaving
<pleia2> october 10th
<olbi> when will be updated Daily Builds LiveCD whith newest transaltions?
<knome> pleia2, :)
<knome> pleia2, now can you ask rocket2dmn to help us get the rest of the stuff done..
<micahg> olbi: only if there are new upstream versions
<pleia2> knome: if you put in a MP and send a mail to the -doc list, I can follow up on the thread I was talking to him on
<knome> MP?
<knome> oh, merge proposal
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> before doing that, i'd actually want somebody to look at our branch
<pleia2> ok
<pleia2> actually, I think you really should just put in the MP
<knome> lol
<knome> i'll look at that when i'm on my desktop
<pleia2> it should auto-ping the people who may want to look at it, so they can just sit down, review, approve
<pleia2> instead of sit down, review, email you back to do the MP, forget where they left off, review 2 days later...
<knome> lol
<elfy> :)
<olbi> :]
<olbi> what is the adress of document where I could test daily builds and types results?
<elfy> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
<elfy> that one olbi ?
<pleia2> disabled creation of new accounts on the wiki, now to do some cleanup
<olbi> I mean same document in google docs which was with Xubuntu 11.10 :)
<knome> have i done it wrong, or why don't i have a merge proposal button in my branch overview
<pleia2> hmm
<pleia2> the link should say "Propose for merging"
<knome> yeah, no such link
<pleia2> how did you check it out initially, bzr branch?
<knome> i believe so yeah
<pleia2> ok, I'll just send an email now and ask for some guidance
<knome> ta
<pleia2> you're on the list right, no need to Cc:?
<knome> ubuntu-doc?
<knome> i'm not
<pleia2> ok, I shall cc
<knome> i hate docs >:)
<pleia2> ok, sent
<pleia2> haha
<knome> oh oh!
<knome> i think i solved it
<pleia2> oh good
<knome> hmm, no
<knome> meh
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> head hurts
<pleia2> aw
<Unit193> Less whiskey.
<knome> ok, i think i fixed it
<knome> no?
<knome> "not mergeable"
<pleia2> hrm
<pleia2> maybe it has something to do with /quantal not existing as an active branch
<pleia2> I guess we'll just wait for help
<knome> oh my!
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubuntu/quantal/xubuntu-docs/new-docs/+merge/124580
<pleia2> huh
<knome> meh. :)
<knome> so at least it's done now
<knome> pleia2, do you want to update them? that branch you linked to doesn't exist anymore
<pleia2> ok
<knome> thanks
<pleia2> oh good connor replied
<knome> mmhmm
<knome> i shall look...
<knome> aha
<knome> pleia2, you still there?
<knome> hey Book_em_Dano 
<Book_em_Dano> hey
<knome> so, what do you know about documentation building? :P
<Rocket2DMn> knome, this is Connor
<knome> hey Rocket2DMn! :)
<knome> so, i've pushed the changes to the branch
<knome> all the validation errors looks like gone now
<Rocket2DMn> alright, give me a minute
<knome> sure
<Rocket2DMn> did you update pot files?
<knome> mm, i'm not completely sure - possibly
<knome> i can do that if that's the only missing thing
<Rocket2DMn> no, you're not really supposed to touch them
<knome> doing 'make' still gives some warnings as i wrote in the mail
<knome> aha
<knome> ok, so why does make create them? :P
<knome> (there isn't even a make target that doesn't create them, but rebuilds the html and css)
<Rocket2DMn> i dont know very much about translations, not sure how they are supposed to get updated in our source, if at all.  translations are done through lp
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> yeah, i was wondering how they work too
<knome> but i can remove the .pots from the final version before MP
<Rocket2DMn> hmm im not really the person to answer questions about the pot files, i never touch them
<knome> ok... :)
<knome> do you know who is?
<Rocket2DMn> ive never actually worked with the xubuntu docs, mostly just the main ubuntu-docs and the serverguide
<Rocket2DMn> mdke (Matthew East) is in charge of the docs team, he would probably know how they are handled.
<Rocket2DMn> He's the guy we need to update the branches too
<knome> ubuntu-docs at least used to use the same stuff than xubuntu
<Rocket2DMn> yeah it used to be in docbook, now its in mallard.  the proiject setup looks very similar to the older ubuntu-docs setup
<Rocket2DMn> the serverguide still uses docbook
<knome> yeah, it was really similar, but i've cleaned up a bit
<Rocket2DMn> we still have the problem of merging it back into our development branch
<knome> well, i noticed there were some problems earlier
<Rocket2DMn> you branched from lp:ubuntu/xubuntu docs rather than lp:xubuntu-docs right?
<knome> i didn't even get a "merge proposal" link
<Rocket2DMn> from what i gather, the latter just updates from the former whenever we do a release
<knome> but i simply pushed to different location, and now it allowed me to propose the merge
<knome> i can't remember which one i originall branched tbh, it's quite a lot of time
<pleia2> Rocket2DMn: hey, thank you!
<Rocket2DMn> pleia2, long time no see.  you're welcome
<Rocket2DMn> knome, i assume you deleted files as part of this process?
<knome> Rocket2DMn, yeah, quite a lot actually
<knome> Rocket2DMn, i was wondering if i deleted something we needed, but i don't think so
<Rocket2DMn> im just trying to figure out the best way to get your changes merged, give me a few minutes to play around
<knome> sure, and please tell me if i can help in any way
<Rocket2DMn> knome, how familiar are you with bzr?
<knome> mediocre
<Rocket2DMn> hmm
<Rocket2DMn> i'm trying to decide if i should do this in one commit or two.  since we're gonna blow everything away that's currently there, it might be safer to delete everything first, commit, then merge
<Rocket2DMn> since these branches don't have a common ancestor, i get conflicts everywhere when i merge, which is expected, i'm just not entirely sure i am resolving them properly
<knome> deleting first sounds okay to me
<knome> we don't want to migrate anything from the old branch anyway
<knome> (and we'll always have the history)
<Rocket2DMn> it might be better to have mdke just create a new lp:xubuntu-docs branch from scratch
<Rocket2DMn> then we can dump everything there with a clean history
<knome> everything goes for me, as long as we can do this before docfreeze and beta2freeze
<Rocket2DMn> i can commit what i have, but i'm going to email Matthew to see how he wants to do it.  i'd suggest a branch new branch since we're basically starting over
<knome> sure
<knome> and again, if you need anything from me...
<Rocket2DMn> knome, i sent an email to Matthew.  You can find him in #ubuntu-doc but he is away most of the time
<knome> thanks, i'll join
<Rocket2DMn> if you idle on IRC, you can probably send him a message and wait.  He lives in Europe I think, so it may be difficult to get ahold of him in the late afternoon/evening
<knome> huh, idle 60 days
<knome> i live in EU too. :)
<Rocket2DMn> 60 days, nice
<Rocket2DMn> ah ok, then you may have better luck getting ahold of him than i usually do
<knome> mmh, maybe, if he isn't planning to be idle the next 60 days too ;)
<Rocket2DMn> ok, well i'll idle on IRC for awhile, but i am stepping afk, i'll check back periodically
<knome> ok, have fun and thanks!
<knome> Rocket2DMn, just updated the branch; removed the .pots and did some more cleanup
<ochosi> hi everyone
<Book_em_Dano> knome, I have a question about the images that are supposed to appear inline on the docs, this may not be a high priority topic given what you are trying to accomplish as of yet
<knome> Book_em_Dano, yes?
<Book_em_Dano> the images are not appearing, what are you using to render the xml files
<knome> gedit :P
<knome> i wonder if the latest "fixes" broke them then
<knome> Book_em_Dano, i can see them.
<knome> Book_em_Dano, are you building the docs in a different way or sth?
<Book_em_Dano> I've been using yelp to render the source code
<knome> aha, i don't know about yelp. i've been building the docs with the Makefile
<knome> (just run make in the root, and look at "build")
<Book_em_Dano> once the package is built, you are using the html files
<knome> yes
<knome> those html files do show me the images
<ochosi> knome: what viewer are we using for our docs atm? (haven't bothered to use them in a looong time)
<knome> ochosi, for the offline docs? $default_browser
<ochosi> so ff in our default case
<knome> yes
<ochosi> mmhm
 * ochosi wonders whether there'd be a better solution for that
<knome> what do you mean?
<ochosi> dunno, a slimmer browser
<knome> a better browser, or a better way to work with the docs?
<ochosi> i mean yelp is dedicated to docs
<knome> mm-hmm
<ochosi> but otoh it's not very slim
<knome> midori :P
<knome> i don't really know if we need yet another browser
<knome> ff works fine
<ochosi> either that, or a tiny gtk-html implementation
<knome> ok, it's slow, but so what?
<knome> you're not going to need to refer to the docs all the time
<knome> they aren't even so extensive you could
<ochosi> yeah, but still, imo it's always nice to have an efficient solution for one usecase
<knome> kind of, but in a way it again feels a bit unnecessary, since we already have FF for browsing and viewing html files
<knome> if we want to be lighter, let's switch firefox
<knome> why does amazon "recommend" me something that is on my wishlist?
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeah, tbh switching ff would work for me
<ochosi> at least if we also switch to a different mailclient
<knome> heh
<knome> i'm still fine with that if people do thorough comparison reports
<micahg> FWIW, dropping yelp would be great as it would drop some more unneeded GNOME stuff
<micahg> (including gnome-user-docs)
<ochosi> +1 as our docs don't use yelp that'd be great
<knome> yeah, but something does use yelp, right?
<ochosi> gnome apps use yelp for their docs
<knome> yeah
<knome> would it suck if gnome apps didn't have help?
<knome> well, kind of, if they aren't pulling yelp in at all..
<ochosi> haven't looked, but it'd be at least evince, simplescan...
<ochosi> an alternative would be to also use yelp for our docs
<knome> :F
 * ochosi sees potential up and downsides there
<ochosi> it'd prolly be worth to talk to folks like j1mc bout that
<knome> yeah, and i think it might have been worth thinking if we want to step away from docbook too
<knome> (the answer is now: you are free to do it, but i'm not helping :P)
<knome> but might've been different 6 months ago
<ochosi> yeah i can see why now is a bad time to talk about that
<knome> now, or even for S
<knome> i don't see any reason why we'd migrate away, since docbook, once converted, does not need a specialized application to browse
<knome> and our situation now is quite good, the docs should be pretty up-to-date and all
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> updating my quantal testbox now to see what awaits us in b2
<knome> :)
<ochosi> strange, somehow greybird's xfwm4 didn't get installed...
<knome> hmm? :)
<ochosi> reinstalling the pkgs now
<knome> heh, monday's first mail
<knome> not to us, but neighbours
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-09
<ochosi> Unit193: indeed, now ubuntu carries it and is also responsible for keeping things working (sounds like extra fun)
<ochosi> brainwash: the icons should be fixed in the latest package-update
<brainwash> ochosi: yes, they are, thanks :)
<ochosi> good to hear
<ochosi> so your icon-sizes are fine again?
<brainwash> yea, original size again
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> if you see any other icon issues please let me know
<ochosi> can anyone confirm a (really noticeable!) lag when logging out on Saucy?
<ochosi> noticed that since i'm working towards a patch for the greeter
<elfy> I can try to ochosi 
<elfy> anything I need to do to confirm it or do you just mean - is it noticeable slow now?
<brainwash> ochosi: did you already check the usual log files for suspicious warnings/errors?
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, for me it's noticeable
<ochosi> brainwash: well if people can't confirm it i'll dig around the logs
<ochosi> if not, i won't waste too much time and rather try to fix the logout-bug
<elfy> it doesn't 'seem' any longer than it normally does here - but it does appear to take a longish time 'normally' 
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> here it takes ~7secs
<elfy> I'll check 
<ochosi> so almost as long as booting :)
<elfy> I'd say 2 secs - but it's longer than that :p
<elfy> ochosi: 8 seconds
<elfy> about as long for me as it has been for a long time
<knome> that's acceptable though if locking works properly ;)
<knome> but sure, please fix it if you know how to
<elfy> hi knome 
<knome> hey elfy 
<brainwash> ouch, I was pretty sure that my dedicated gpu (or kms) won't cause a kernel panic anymore when graphically logging.. what a bummer, need to re-add my lightdm script hock
<brainwash> brb
<elfy> that's longer than 8 seconds ... 
<ochosi> elfy: hmpf, okay, then i need to take a look at that
<ochosi> maybe it's something related to systemd again that mr_pouit didn't fix in xfce4-session
<ochosi> ali1234: i fixed theming for the indicators in greybird-git-master now, could you please test that?
<ali1234> sure
<ochosi> in case it works, i'll add similar stuff for the themes that need it
<ochosi> thanks!
<ochosi> Orion is really fine
<ochosi> Numix too
<ochosi> although i need to drop the sizing patch from there
<ali1234> hmm it's not working
<ali1234> i restarted the panel but the background is still thw wrong colour
<ochosi> are you sure?
<ali1234> oh wait, wrong theme
<ochosi> (sorry, i know that's a silly question, but it's hard to believe)
<ochosi> ok :)
<ali1234> it looks ok
<ali1234> the border looks a little bit different
<ochosi> yeah, a little
<ochosi> but not too much i think
<ali1234> it's close enough
<ali1234> considering gtk2/gtk3 stuff
<ochosi> yeah, box-shadows aren't 100% working as they should in this context
<ochosi> otherwise they'd be identical
<ochosi> but menus are fine too?
<ali1234> they look ok to me... what am i looking for?
<ochosi> not sure, anything really
<ochosi> i had some issues with hovering
<ochosi> e.g. in soundmenu
<ochosi> but i think i fixed that now
<ali1234> it looks fine
<ali1234> i just spotted a bug though
<ali1234> the volume notification bubble shouldn't show when you change the volume from the sound menu
<OvenWerks> ochosi: Sorry to butt in, but I had noticed that the menu from a right click on the desktop would not resize icons. I don't know if that is theming though
<ochosi> ali1234: that's somewhat true, but it was always like that (blame the unmaintained xfce4-volumed)
<OvenWerks> The problem has gone away for me because I am using an icon theme with right sized icons now
<ali1234> sure. i only just noticed it though
<ali1234> OvenWerks: what do you mean exactly?
<ochosi> OvenWerks: what do you mean exactly? can you show me a screenshot of that?
<ochosi> haha
<ochosi> nice one
<OvenWerks> hang on...
<ali1234> when you right click in a file manager you get "zoom in/out" in the menu
<ali1234> this isn't available for desktop icons... is that what you mean?
<ochosi> i think he refers to the app-menu you get when you right-click the desktop
<ochosi> same as the one in the panel
<ali1234> but you can't resize the icons int he panel, can you?
<ochosi> not in the menu, at least not easily
<ali1234> oh well, let's just wait and see :)
<ochosi> agreed :)
<ali1234> speaking of icons and menus... one thing that bugs me is you can turn off icons in *all* menus, and you can turn off icons in just the start menu, but you can't have icons in the start menu and nowhere else
<ochosi> yeah, general gtk overrides xfce-menu
<ochosi> it kinda makes sense
<ali1234> KDE does the exact same thing
<OvenWerks> http://imagebin.org/270352
<ali1234> but in gnome classic it's possible
<ochosi> ali1234: might work with whiskermenu
<OvenWerks> This is from 13.04
<ochosi> ali1234: (because it's not really a menu-widget)
<OvenWerks> but like I say in 13.10 the icons are the right size to begin with
<ali1234> i don't recognise that menu at all
<ochosi> that's ubuntu-studio
<OvenWerks> it is custom
<OvenWerks> ya
<ali1234> ah, ok
<ali1234> so you mean those top icons are too big?
<ochosi> OvenWerks: ok, first of all: the icons that aren't the right size aren't in our icon theme
<brainwash> ochosi: after some trouble with KMS I was able to logout, yes, there is some unusual delay
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, we'll have to fix that too then...
<OvenWerks> no, I am thinking that a new application with only one icon.
<ali1234> if you install the game "super meat boy" it has a HUGE icon that breaks many menu applications
<ali1234> it's like 128x128
<OvenWerks> however, if it is a fix the icon theme thing I will consider it fixed :)
<OvenWerks> these are all 48X
<ochosi> OvenWerks: so you say in 13.10 it works (with the same icon.theme)?
<OvenWerks> no we fixed the icons
<GridCube> ali1234, i remember back in the day there was a problem with xpm files for icons
<ochosi> OvenWerks: you added 16px versions?
<OvenWerks> Ya
<brainwash> GridCube: already fixed?
<GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdk-pixbuf/+bug/1061037
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1061037 in gdk-pixbuf (Ubuntu) "Using .xpm icons on desktop may draw huge icon" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> OvenWerks: if you're using elementary-xfce and want icons like these added to the icon theme let me know (or send me a pull-request)
<OvenWerks> I was using the old ones to point out that the main menu does resize but the right click does not.
<GridCube> actually this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1066591
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1061037 in gdk-pixbuf (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1066591 Using .xpm icons on desktop may draw huge icon" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brainwash> same issue, isn't it?
<GridCube> yes apparentry
<ochosi> yup i guess
<ali1234> GridCube: SMB is png files, but they put the same 128x128 icon in all the directories, without resizing it
<GridCube> XD 
<ochosi> ali1234: bastards! :)
<OvenWerks> ochosi: we have actually made the icons part of the menu overlay so they are in hicolor
<GridCube> ali1234, oh, i dont know about that
<ochosi> OvenWerks: ah fine too
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/1010326
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1010326 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "Super Meat Boy has a HUGE icon" [Undecided,Fix committed]
<ochosi> ali1234: if you want me to fix that in our icon-theme lemme know
<ochosi> ah, fix committed sounds ok
<ali1234> not sure if it was ever fixed - it's not a huge (lol) problem anyway
<ali1234> *released
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> meh, it seems that logout wasn't part of the patch: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/139758200/xfce4-session-4.10.1-and-logind-suspend.patch
<ali1234> i wonder if gedit is ever going to get it's icon back
<ochosi> what do you mean?
<ali1234> it has no icon on the taskbar or top left corner of the window in themes that support it
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gedit/+bug/1219120
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1219120 in gedit (Ubuntu) "gedit has no application icon" [Low,Confirmed]
<ochosi> ah, it doesn't set its appicon
<ochosi> true, i never noticed
<ochosi> i guess nothing we can do about it
<ali1234> for me, the icon on taskbar is the main way i identify windows
<ochosi> i hadn't noticed because i've been using plank for a while
<ali1234> i don't like when KDE greys all but the selected window
<ochosi> that's a feature in gtk3 as well
<smartboyhw> knome, you guys should be proud of making it into a Mercedes Benz promo video:)
<neyder_> hi there
<neyder_> I'm trying to createa custom desktop session, to be loaded besides xubuntu-session and xfce-session, it should hace one botom panel and different set off wallpapers. 
<ali1234> i tried to do something like that once
<neyder_> I'm starting my work with sources of xubuntu-desktop-defaults xubuntu-artwork
<neyder_> ali1234, how did you do that?
<ali1234> i did it with gnome-session
<neyder_> but with XFCE?
<ali1234> xfce4-session is the equivalent
<neyder_> that's because we will ship 4K laptops with customized xubuntu, give install CD to other computers, all this based in xubuntu
<neyder_> in xfce4-panel configuration, how does I set it to be as a vertical panel 
<neyder_>       <property name="position" type="string" value="p=8;x=683;y=755"/> this is was set in my desktop, and in xubuntu-default-settings is  value="p=6;x=0;y=0"
<ali1234> p= is probably a set of flags
<ali1234> a bitmask that is
<ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/tree/panel/panel-window.c#n184
<ali1234> that's an enum so the first one = 0
<ali1234> then it counts up
<ali1234> that's what the p value is
<neyder_> yep, it a position, starting in 1 right border and count up anti clock wise
<pleia2> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/09/ubuntu-appears-in-mercedes-benz-self-driving-car-promo for what smartboyhw was talking about
<pleia2> 59 seconds in is a pretty good shot of xubuntu
<ali1234> how do you know it isn't debian?
<neyder_> mouse of xubuntu-logo-menu
<pleia2> yep
<GridCube> yep
<ali1234> openstreetmap is in there too
<neyder_> help, i want my present customized desktop session, to be a xdg-session to be loaded for new users and choosed session
<ali1234> if you look really closely at the screen you can see they are using http://www.kogmo-rtdb.de/
<ali1234> but an old version from when it was still LGPL
<ochosi> Gridcube's deviantart initiative seems to have paid off in one way already, xubuntu screenshots on deviantart have spiked since he started
<knome> yeah, and we should get that thing going on in our website too
<knome> licensing probles though, the moderation stuff isn't working as expected yet
<Unit193> That can be hard with back(drops|grounds).
<knome> sure, but the guidelines are clearly laid out
<ochosi> mm
<ochosi> i agree, it would be nice to get that going before the next release
<brainwash> ochosi: any progress regarding the logout delay?
<ochosi> brainwash: not really yet tbh
<ochosi> tried to pin the work on someone else because i think it'd take me ages to figure it out
<ochosi> but we'll see
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> looks like everyone is affected, or?
<ochosi> guess, but haven't had a chance to check
<ochosi> maybe elfy can check? :)
<ochosi> (amazing timing)
<Unit193> elfy broke it, why would checking help?
 * elfy broke what?
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> elfy: we were just talking about the logout bug and whether everyone is affected or not
<elfy> and yea - bad timing - given the extenuating circumstances
<ochosi> i said that i assume so, but you'd probably know better
<elfy> ochosi: well ... 
<elfy> if there was a bug I could tell you if others were affected - but it's all a bit wishy washy - I appear to be - but then again logout is as fast now for me as it was with 12.04 so I assume it is as designed :)
<elfy> said the QA bloke 
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> hm
<brainwash> kernel: [  115.649607] traps: xfce4-indicator[1350] general protection ip:7fddc958626c sp:7fffb2151910 error:0 in libgobject-2.0.so.0.370     6.0[7fddc9553000+51000]
<ochosi> still, the fact that the greeter is going crazy about the logged-in state of users also points to a bug there
<brainwash> ^anyone else seeing this?
<brainwash> (syslog)
<elfy> ochosi: I wonder if the logout bug we have is connected 
<ochosi> elfy: why not?
<elfy> too late in the evening for me to find it 
<ochosi> well as long as i don't find anything useful in the logs, it's hard to find out
<elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1204486
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1204486 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Unable to select alternate languages at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> is one of them - you don't actually logout - can't change languages 
<ochosi> yeah, that's likely related
<ochosi> at least that's what i've been trying to fix when i discovered the delay
<elfy> but saying that - I've never had xubuntu logout me out any quicker
<ochosi> really? 7 seconds?
<elfy> yep
<brainwash> about 7 seconds here too
<ochosi> lordy
<brainwash> feels like an eternity
<elfy> rarely use it tbh 
<ochosi> brainwash: btw, as you're always hanging out in the dev-channel, do you feel like contributing?
<brainwash> ochosi: in which way? fixing nasty bugs? :D
<elfy> I don't contribute like that ;)
<ochosi> brainwash: hehe, no actually low-hanging fruit (but something we don't have enough time for)
<Unit193> elfy: Nor do I, maybe it's just to troll. :*(
<brainwash> I really should improve my programming/debugging skills
 * elfy shudders 
<ochosi> brainwash: well you can do something technical too if you want, but it was a more mundane task i had in mind
<knome> Unit193, every project needs a troll, you're from the better side
<Unit193> :D
<brainwash> ochosi: can't tell without knowing any details
<ochosi> brainwash: well basically we've wanted to add more wallpapers since deciding to go for a 1gb image
<ochosi> and knome and me even set up a selection
<ochosi> what would need to be done is getting in touch with the authors of the images, and checking the licenses etc
<ochosi> then we could get that into our xubuntu-wallpapers package (or a new one)
<knome> i'm personally thinking a realistic schedule is that the new stuff lands in 14.04.
<brainwash> asking the guy who prefers having a simple solid black background :D
<elfy> nice - so new menu editor/wallpaper - just need something to replace Ubuntu Slow Centre :)
<knome> elfy, you mean menulibre?
<elfy> yea
<knome> heh
<elfy> :)
<knome> yeah, sounds like a solid plan for 14.05.
<Unit193> elfy: Synaptic|apt-get, done. :D
<knome> oh right, USC
<brainwash> what about lubuntu's software center?
<knome> haha
<knome> yeah...
<elfy> knew I should just have said goodnight ... 
<Unit193> What about muon? :---D
<brainwash> or ubuntu's web app center? https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/
<brainwash> (not really an option though)
<elfy> off up the wooden hill then - cya 
<ochosi> brainwash: righty, well if ya change your mind you can always take a look at these: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Raring/Wallpapers
<knome> ok, i'm off for today
<knome> catch you all later
<ochosi> seeya
<brainwash> ochosi: the pictures upload to ubuntu lack any details about the author and the pictures hosted on flickr already offer legal information
<ochosi> brainwash: some of them have the license info and author in the tooltip
<brainwash> are these only user submissions (done by the author)?
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> these are picks by me and knome (mostly from flickr), pics 2, 3 and 5 are done by us
<ochosi> (2,3 by me, 5 by knome)
<ochosi> so for the remaining 8 we'd need the infos
<ochosi> brainwash: btw, if you prefer debugging the logout bug, that'd be a great help too ;)
<brainwash> ochosi: what about the license details provided in the info box (flickr)?
<ochosi> brainwash: those should be fine
<ochosi> but we need cc-by-sa
<ochosi> so we'd have to ask some of the authors to change the license in order to be able to use them
<Unit193> cc-sa wouldn't do?
<ochosi> Unit193: i don't know that one, only cc-by-sa, or cc-by-nc-sa
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> cc-sa has been retired
<ochosi> i guess that could work too, but why not use the up-to-date cc-by-sa?
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-10
<jjfrv8> ochosi, re the logout time - 12 seconds here, on a pretty fast machine :(
<ochosi> jjfrv8: ok, thanks for the confirmation
<ochosi> now we have to debug it somehow
<ochosi> (find pointers in the logs)
<ochosi> but i really assume it's a logind related issue
<knome> ochosi, Unit193: cc always has by (attribution)
<ochosi> knome: there was an old generic cc-sa, but it's retired now (googled it)
<knome> ochosi, yeah sure, but it would've been kind of stupid to have sa without by (that's why cc dropped it)
<ochosi> yup, basically what i said yesterday
<ali1234> ochosi: "Windows Network" in thunar has no icon - bug?
<ochosi> ali1234: screenshot?
<knome> was there some obvious reason why some thunar custom actions do not work?
<knome> the script i'm trying to run doesn't even launch
<ochosi> ali1234: ah i see
<ochosi> knome: you have to use absolute paths i think for executing the script if it's e.g. in your ~/.bin
<knome> i am, no luck
<knome> uff
<knome> ok, fixed
<ochosi> ali1234: ok, will see whether i can fix that, thanks for the hint
<ochosi> ali1234: can't seem to find an icon-theme where that gets a real icon (that's with gnome: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09102013-073954pm.php )
<ali1234> yeah, same
<ochosi> so as long as we don't find a theme that works, fixing is hard
<ochosi> unless you wanna read the GIO/GVFS source code
<ali1234> it gets an icon in nautilus...
<ali1234> well, it did in raring anyway
<ali1234> btw do i need to register to use zimagez?
<ali1234> also i tracked down the gedit icon bug... it's because it used to use smclient to read the icon from the .desktop file, but smclient was removed. i sent it to gnome bugzilla
<ochosi> i think you might have to
<ochosi> i think gedit would simply have to use the gtk function to set the window-icon
<ali1234> yes, basically that call got deleted when smclient was removed
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> well they don't need it anymore in gnome-shell, but it blows for all other DEs
<ali1234> yeah. ironically, windows and mac still gets the icon, because they never used smclient
<ochosi> well it's a one-liner
<OvenWerks> Just an extra bit of info on the long logout/shutdown time bug. It is not only xfce, kde (kubuntu) is the same. It is definitely longer than raring. I have been thinking it was broken and doing an sudo reboot... impatience on my part... and always having a terminal sitting open too.
<ochosi> OvenWerks: very weird
<OvenWerks> ochosi: It seems to me the big change has has been the change to upstart for starting sessions.
<ochosi> OvenWerks: well that sounds annoying, i thought it was "only" the switch to logind?
<jjfrv8> knome, I'm back
<ochosi> ali1234: can you show me a screenshot of what icon nautilus uses for browse windows network?
<ali1234> ochosi: sure, i'll have to boot up another machine though
<ochosi> ok, that would be helpful
<ochosi> then at least i can narrow down the options
<ochosi> checking the gvfs source didn't shed too much light...
<ali1234> ochosi: http://imagebin.org/270509
<ochosi> ali1234: any chance you can try to use elementary-xfce there?
<ali1234> the machine freezes when i try to open the dash, and there's no other way to open a terminal
<ali1234> it might unfreeze in a minute or two
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> on the first look i can't see any icons that look like that in Humanity that could be used
<ochosi> so it might be a bug in thunar
<ochosi> not sure
<ali1234> well i'm using ubuntu-mono-light and thunar still shows no icon
<ochosi> ok, that at least points into a direction (where it's not my fault anymore)
<ali1234> what's the xfce-elementary icon package called?
<ochosi> xubuntu-icon-theme
<ochosi> but you can also use the daily of it
<ochosi> makes more sense
<ochosi> https://code.launchpad.net/~landronimirc/+archive/elementary-xfce
<ali1234> i can't install it on a livecd
<ochosi> ah 
<ochosi> hm :/
<ochosi> well those symlinks shouldn't be missing either way
<ali1234> adding the ppa
<ali1234> er... how do i change the icon theme in unity?
<ochosi> ali1234: ask me something i know... :)
<ali1234> ok it's a folder with a wifi icon on it
<ali1234> gtk-network.png, but there are several that look like that
<ali1234> also it's the same icon thunar uses on the places bar at the side for "browse network" and network shortcuts and also it is correctly displayed when you go into a computer and see the shares - each one has this icon
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, i know it's that icon (or it should be), so it's working with nautilus?
<ochosi> if yes i'd presume it's thunar's fault
<knome> jjfrv8, if you're interested in a bit different docs stuff, parole could do with documentation upstream; ochosi and bluesabre have been working on it lately, and they will soon need interested people to build up the parole docs from scratch :)
<ali1234> ochosi: yes, it works in nautilus
<ali1234> with xfce-elementary
<ochosi> ali1234: ok, i guess reporting a bug against thunar would be good
<ochosi> (on bugs.xfce.org)
<knome> bbl, nighty ->
<jjfrv8> ochosi, bluesabre, if you want to fill me in on the parole documentation thing knome mentioned, I'd be glad to look into it.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-11
<micahg> OvenWerks: is there an LP bug for that session issue?
<elfy> knome: if you're happy with the gmb testcase on the pad I'll get it into the system
<knome> elfy, not yet :)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: sure thing! generally speaking parole docs haven't really started yet, i only set up a dummy page here (which is where docs will end up eventually): http://docs.xfce.org/apps/parole/start
<ochosi> jjfrv8: currently we're porting parole to Gtk3, and the UI has changed a little, so we decided to wait with starting the docs until that transition is made
<knome> ochosi, would you have some time soonish to finish off the gmb testcase? i know it's nearly ready, but we should see if there are any kinks
<ochosi> jjfrv8: you should be able to install the latest version of parole from here: https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/xfce-4.12-daily
<ochosi> knome: yeah, internet is a bit sloooow here atm, but i can take a look
<ochosi> knome: got the link at hand?
<knome> just a sec
<knome> need to do one other thing first (5mins)
<ochosi> jjfrv8: so you'll need to get access to the docs wiki, but we can probably set up a staging page somewhere else
<elfy> ochosi: http://pad.ubuntu.com/SdNxa2psDG
<ochosi> thanks elfy 
<ochosi> elfy: how do we treat alternative methods for a test?
<elfy> alternative methods for what?
<ochosi> in gmusicbrowser: for updating your collection
<ochosi> you can either add a new folder to your existing "Music" folder
<elfy> oic
<ochosi> (or library folder, whereever that might be)
<ochosi> or you add a folder that resides somewhere else to your collection
<elfy> would that not be a new test - eg - Add New Music to library 
<ochosi> well both add variants add new music
<ochosi> kinda
<ochosi> but yeah, i'll make it a separate test then
<elfy> update wouldn't if it didn't know the new source I assume
<elfy> this is why I'm not doing the testcase - I really don't like using gmb :)
<elfy> it just confuses me :)
<ochosi> we need docs for it i think
<elfy> probably - it doesn't seem very logical to me - but that's possibly just me 
<knome> ok, i'm back
<elfy> hi
<knome> hey
<knome> ochosi, can you double-check the plugins part?
<knome> i can't remember where those infos are loaded
<knome> so just make sure they are appropriate and not "(name?)"
<knome> i suppose other than that, i'm ok to include that in our tests
<ochosi> well, make sure that the infos are loading at all
<knome> :P
<ochosi> for some reason the artistinfo plugin fails for me here atm
<knome> heh
<ochosi> hmpf, same for albuminfo
<knome> well if you made sure the testcase was correct, people could notice that and send bugs ;)
<elfy> :D
<ochosi> well if it doesn't even work for me here on saucy, there's no point in letting people run into these bugs over and over again
<knome> :P
<ochosi> i'm already getting in touch with squentin to see whether he can fix it
<ochosi> otherwise we'd have to disable those plugins by default
<ochosi> doesn't make sense to activate them when they don't work
<knome> sure
<knome> still time to fix them though
<elfy> lol - so next time I've got a bug I'll get ochosi to write a testcase for it :D
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> ok, all plugins that download webcontent have seized to work here
<ochosi> not exactly sure why
<ochosi> who of you is on saucy?
<knome> .o.
 * elfy is
<knome> i can run a vbox desktop if you need more testing
<ochosi> elfy: could you please start gmb from the terminal and select a song from a popular band where you're sure you get results and then check one of these tabs/plugins: lyrics, artistinfo, albuminfo?
<ochosi> to the worst hit the refresh button there and check what the terminal says (if it doesn't work)
<elfy> a song in my library?
<ochosi> yup
<elfy> lyrics workd
<elfy> artist works
<elfy> album info I assume is just called album - that's failing
<ochosi> term output?
<knome> what does the fox say?
<knome> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE
<ochosi> or what happens when you hit the search-button?
<elfy> http://pastebin.com/71S70ici
<elfy> search button?
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-09112013-121523pm.php
<ochosi> that one next to "refresh"
<elfy> don't see any of those buttons 
<elfy> what layout you using?
<ochosi> ok, wait a sec then :)
<ochosi> (the default layout, just have to check what modications i have in my local setup)
<elfy> the album plugin is just completely empty
<elfy> I'll do a screenie - but I'll have to play later - got top be at work in 10
<ochosi> ah, then please go to the settings menu > settings > plugins
<ochosi> and activate it therer
<ochosi> that should do the trick
<ochosi> (maybe we have to update our gmbrc file)
<ochosi> if you still have time
<elfy> mmm
<knome> elfy always has time for QA, he's the QA lead
<elfy> so enabling the thing has made gmb completely unresponsive now 
 * knome hides
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> hmpf
<elfy> well that didn't want to stop then ... 
<elfy> I'll be back in a few hours - gtg
<ochosi> sure, seeya
<ochosi> nice, indicator-power works now in xubuntu with the gtk3 panel patches
<ochosi> if it had support for calling xfce4-power-manager (which should be easy to add) it'd be nice to use
<ochosi> more consistency in the panel
<ochosi> knome: do we track saucy bugs somewhere in a blueprint or something?
<ochosi> just to keep an overview
<knome> ochosi, if it's a release-critical, link it to the -devel blueprint
<ochosi> is the logout bug there?
<knome> yes
<knome> at least if you mean the logout/lock bug
<ochosi> in this case it's not release-critical, it's this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1223808
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1223808 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmbrc misses line to activate albuminfo-plugin" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> i'd still like to keep it somewhere so that i'm not the only one reminding micahg :)
<knome> let me rephrase...
<knome> if it's release-critical or something you are inclined to fix within this cycle, link it
<ochosi> hmpf, why is there no list of blueprints here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop
<knome> because that's for the product
<knome> for the xubuntu-desktop product, i mean
<knome> and all of our blueprints need to be filed under ubuntu, if we want them showing up in status.u.c
<knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-s-flavor-xubuntu
<knome> s/-s-/-t-/ for 14.04 blueprint(s)
<ochosi> can't see the logout bug in the devel blueprint
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> there it is
<knome> yep
<knome> feel free to change the title
<knome> (as i've said before)
<ochosi> so far i haven't successfully investigated
<knome> well it's pretty clear to me that the missing languages are a symptom of the real bug
<knome> so in that sense, the bug description is misleading
<knome> because that's a non-issue
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> the languages *shouldn't* be there when you've locked out
<knome> maybe another wishlist/low priority bug for hiding those menus when you're "only" locked out
<ochosi> yeah, but that's useless until we use light-locker
<knome> i'm not saying what's useless or not ;)
<knome> i'm just saying those are two different bugs
<knome> and exactly that the lock-state bug is more critical than the languages
<ochosi> yeah, it just might be a different, greeter-unrelated bug though
<knome> sure
<ochosi> ali1234: you said that sound-indicator doesn't accept scrolling in unity either iirc â is there already a bugreport for that?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it's on the mail
<ochosi> ah, i overlooked
<ochosi> sry
<ochosi> btw, it kinda makes sense to show the notification bubble when the volume is changed through scrolling
<ochosi> on the indicator i mean
<ochosi> (and i'm not sure that xfce4-volumed could distinguish the signals between menuitem and panel-item anyway)
<ali1234> i don't think anything new happened since my mail. i'm waiting on those bugs to be fixed pretty much
<ali1234> and none of them has anything to do with xfce
<ochosi> mhm
<ochosi> would be nice to see xfce4-powerman support in indicator-power
<ochosi> any idea why brightness stuff wouldn't be shown there?
<ali1234> no idea
<ali1234> i don't think i have ever seen that
<ochosi> ok, well it should theoretically show a scale
<ochosi> btw, if you want/can, it'd be great if you could patch indicator-power to open xfce4-powerman's settings on the "power settings..." menuitem
<ochosi> there should be an analogous patch for indicator-sound somewhere to open pavucontrol
<ochosi> anyhoo, lunchtime, bbl
<jjfrv8> ochosi, thanks for the info on parole. I'll get that new version and check it out.
<knome> bbl
<ochosi> jjfrv8: great!
<ochosi> jjfrv8: feel free to check the docs of other xfce apps as reference (terminal is quite good) http://docs.xfce.org/apps/start
<brainwash> consolekit is deprecate and not required anymore, right?
<brainwash> not sure yet, if I can simply remove the package
<ochosi> not sure if logind has taken over everything
<ochosi> tbh the transition isn't much fun
<brainwash> on my current installation no package actually depends on consolekit
<brainwash> well, same for system-shim :)
<brainwash> ochosi: when right clicking the password input field presented by the lightdm greeter, a strangely broken context menu appears
<brainwash> maybe because I'm actually using the latest git version of Greybird
<ochosi> brainwash: thanks, will check
<elfy> ochosi: confirmed your gmb bug and added a comment
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> btw, we're investigating the UI freezing of the plugin
<elfy> ok - thanks 
<ochosi> but the rest of the plugins seem to work fine
<ochosi> so the testcase should be ok there
<elfy> personally I'd add it to the testcase - we know the bug is there 
<ochosi> please go ahead
<elfy> I would but I don't know what it normally says :)
<ochosi> you mean the plugin?
<elfy> yea
<ochosi> it looks pretty much like the artistinfo plugin
<ochosi> just with albums ;)
<ochosi> and albumreviews
<elfy> ok - so just some generic thing will do :)
<ochosi> exactly
<elfy> ochosi: so was this gmb test just waiting for you to look?
<elfy> if it was I'll merge it 
<ochosi> i was prolly gonna add another small one
<elfy> ok
<ochosi> but other than that, i think it's quite finished
<elfy> well when you know it's ready let me know - unless someone else merges it 
<ochosi> elfy: done
<elfy> ok - I'll pull the trigger on it then
<ochosi> thanks
<elfy> all done now
<elfy> knome: gmb not added to the package tracker yet - not sure if it should go in xfce or xubuntu apps
<elfy> hello jono_ 
<elfy> I'd assume xubuntu apps - http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/admin/config/services/qatracker/testsuites/350/
<elfy> knome: should we even be worrying about the test for onboard - I'd assume that Ubuntu uses it - they've got more resources I'd say - was one that just got the xubuntu tag added, that just leaves the printer one - I'll mail the list to ask if someone can do it - I can't - no printer 
<Unit193> Task: ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-usb, xubuntu-desktop   Yep, Ubuntu uses it (in raring at least.)
<elfy> what is this task thing
<Unit193> apt-cache show $packagename
<Unit193> I can also tell you ubuntukylin uses it.
<elfy> thanks - never used show before
<Unit193> ubuntu-dev-tools: /usr/bin/seeded-in-ubuntu  can also be handy.
<elfy> I'm pleased we've got down to 2 left from almost too many  :p
<GridCube> if you need i can try to test login to my touchscreen netbook using that thingy :D
<elfy> I can't even start the thing to write the testcase - so I was intending to push it to someone else to worry about :)
<elfy> we've written 47 manual testcases 
<elfy> and as I've no printer I can't do that one either :)
<lderan> :P
<brainwash> ochosi: can you like the bugreport/blueprint for the delayed logout issue please?
<brainwash> ochosi: link
<brainwash> I can't find it anywhere
<Unit193> win new split
<Unit193> Erp...
<OvenWerks> micahg: I went back and tested my KDE logouts and they are fine now. The only way I can get any delay is to have an app like libreoffice open while trying to logout. I am doing a fresh install with xfce to see the difference.
<OvenWerks> I am realizing I don't logout (or shutdown) very often.
<brainwash> the greeter doesn't offer the option to restart, only shutdown is available
<brainwash> that's weird too
<knome> elfy, yup, xubuntu apps
<knome> elfy, if no one else is up for it, i can do that later when i'm visiting my mum or take a remote session.
<elfy> you talking about the printer one?
<elfy> knome: mandatory, run once or optional do you think - I'd probably go for run once
<knome> elfy, yep, latter comments were about printer
<knome> elfy, for gmb, i think run once is fine
<elfy> thought so 
<elfy> for both - I did the package test setup :)
<elfy> what's your thoughts on onboard testcase 
<knome> not sure
<knome> i haven't heard of many people using it
<elfy> me neither - I'm just thinking of removing the xubuntu tag that chilcuil added 
<elfy> if ever any of the other flavours get round to doing testcases we can just use theirs if we want to
<knome> yes
<knome> what i actually think is...
<elfy> ok 
<knome> it's kind of hypocritical to "just" have an onboard testcase
<knome> if we were really interested if that worked or not, we should be able to put a lot more work to accessibility
<knome> at the moment that's not possible, even if we wanted
<elfy> makes sense to me 
<knome> so yeah, i'm fine with dropping that for now
<elfy> I'll deal with that then
<knome> ta
<elfy> knome: if you find you've not got time to do the printer one let me know and I'll ask on the list citing having no money to get a printer :)
<knome> lol
<knome> the problem is - i don't have a printer either
<knome> but i can get ahold of one, if needed..
<elfy> I can do a mail easy enough 
<knome> yep, feel free to
<knome> i was just saying i can do it if nobody else does...
<elfy> ok 
<ochosi> brainwash: it's linked to here: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-s-development
<ochosi> brainwash: the direct link being that: https://bugs.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1204486
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1204486 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "Unable to select alternate languages at login screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> brainwash: but for real, those two bugs should be split into two bugreports
<knome> if somebody missed: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-September/009329.html
<knome> congrats jack :)
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> (already done via ml)
<knome> hmm
<knome> are you on my ignore list?
<knome> or is mailman playing games again
<knome> probably that
<knome> hmm, no, even mailman doesn't see your message
<knome> wrong email?
<ochosi> who knows
<knome> nah, not that
<knome> not in the mod queue
<knome> and not in the archives
<ochosi> ah, stuck in my queue
<knome> :)
<ochosi> weird connection here...
<ochosi> (knew that already)
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks for the links, is the broken context menu, which popups when richt clicking the password input field, related too
<brainwash> wait, were you able to reproduce this broken menu issue?
<ochosi> brainwash: have to test it yet, haven't had time to yet
<knome> interesting: http://open-advice.org/
<ochosi> nice, greybird with csd: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JWaas0u9El8/UjDWYflGFmI/AAAAAAAAIsA/43rB5FnaWlw/w1278-h719-no/Screenshot+from+2013-09-12+01%253A57%253A17.png
<ochosi> (client side decorations, in case anyone is wondering)
 * ochosi really likes how future-proof our themes are at this point
<knome> :)
<Unit193> Then, broken in gtk 3.9
<brainwash> I like that icon theme
<ali1234> client side decorations = no decorations?
<ochosi> ali1234: basically yes
<ochosi> integrated in the app in whatever way the app-dev sees suitable
<ali1234> what a terrible idea
<brainwash> so the bar will be visible when using basic window mangers (tiling wms,..)?
<ali1234> the is no "the bar"
<ali1234> it's just whatever the app decides to draw
<brainwash> resulting in every app looking different?
<ali1234> yes
<brainwash> what a mess
<ali1234> it will be like when you load up office 2010 on xp: it looks like windows 7
<ali1234> but everything else still looks like xp
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> that's the huge problem that wayland brought about
<ali1234> not that you'll be able to use a "basic" window manager with wayland - the window manager is built it
<brainwash> csd requires wayland?
<ochosi> brainwash: no, but wayland requires csd
<ochosi> wayland doesn't decorate windows in the traditional sense
<ochosi> toolkits should do that
<ochosi> and to some extent, that makes sense
<ochosi> (more consistent theming etc)
<ochosi> but the problem is inconsistency between apps
<ochosi> if devs don't follow the HIG who knows where/how to close an app (theoretically)
<ochosi> it's the whole QT/GTK problem of OK/CANCEL in LEFT/RIGHT all over again...
<ali1234> best case we'll need a qt and a gtk3 version of every window decoration theme like we already do with the widget themes
<ali1234> worst case every app will draw it's own windows like chrome does
<brainwash> Unity 8 to the rescue!
<brainwash> :D
<Unit193> jjfrv8: Late congrats.
<jjfrv8> thanks, ochosi, lderan, Unit193.
<lderan> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-12
<htmlgifted> Hello Looking for a Answer to A bluetooth problem with xubuntu 12.04.... SylvaniaBT device... connected and paired and can control Audicious ... For the next track and previous track fine but doesn't send audio to device.... ? Any ideas?
<ElderDryas> Try #xubuntu - the support  channel for Xubuntu.
<ElderDryas> You're bound to get an answer quicker there
<htmlgifted> see i was told here would be good.
<htmlgifted> will try ther and see thanks..
<skellat> jjfrv8: Congratulations on becoming documentation lead, boss.
<skellat> knome: I'm going to have to miss the meeting as I'm being called away to do tech support for family a village or two east from here
<knome> skellat, no problem. have fun
<lderan> safe journey skellat 
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 12 15:02:31 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<knome> so who's here for the meeting?
<lderan> me
<jjfrv8> o/
<micahg-work> o/
<knome> #topic Items carried on
<knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
<knome> #action     knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week 
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
<knome> #action     mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later 
<meetingology> ACTION: mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
<knome> #nick mr_pouit 
<knome> #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so 
<meetingology> ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
<knome> #nick skellat
<knome> #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing 
<pleia2> o/
<knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-August/009312.html
<knome> jack sent me some grammar and clarity fixes
<micahg-work> hrm, sorry, I forgot to review that
<knome> but the content itself hasn't changed since last meeting
<pleia2> I still need to review as well
<knome> okay, let's postpone until next meeting.
<knome> #subtopic Ideas for using the project money 
<micahg-work> more swag
<ochosi> #idea live-usb sticks with xubuntu on it (either as a give-away, or even for some very cheap price that's about what the usb stick would cost)
<knome> this is somewhat irrelevant, but there was an idea that unixstickers.com could "hold" our free material, and contributors who have talks in events could "order" those when needed with special code or sth
<ochosi> also sounds nice
<lderan> usb sticks would be cool
<lderan> aye
<micahg-work> ooh, ochosi's idea is good, no profit...
<knome> what micahg-work and ochosi are proposing sound like new marketing projects we should undertake, not exactly "using the money"
<micahg-work> well, the money is seed money for the marketing project :)
<micahg-work> but it's self-renewing
<knome> basically we would like to just set up the swag for our users to order them
<ochosi> knome: well the money would be needed for starting it up
<pleia2> #idea order some trial tshirts from international vendors
<ochosi> micahg-work: +1
<knome> not really, if vendors are doing that, like unixstickers.com
<knome> pleia2, +1 for that
<knome> the situation with t-shirts is that we still haven't found a good vendor
<knome> ubuntu studio used spreadshirt.net
<knome> or uses
<micahg-work> can we use the one that Studio is using?
<knome> pleia2, did you get to order something from them yet?
<ochosi> who would the tshirts be for?
<knome> micahg-work, practically we can use anything, we aren't just sure if price/quality is par with our expectations
<knome> ochosi, contributors
<knome> ochosi, but the main idea would be to check the quality
<ochosi> as in: ourselves? :)
<knome> pleia2 has been ordering shirts with her own money for now
<knome> yep, us
<knome> xubuntu-team
<micahg-work> knome, we could do t-shirts for -team members at cost to again keep the money from depleting...
<knome> another requirement in addition to quality is reasonable shipping prices
<knome> micahg-work, not sure i follow.
<micahg-work> or reuse it for multiple ventures
<knome> i'm not saying we should just dump it all to something
<micahg-work> AIUI, we're only prohibited from profiting, that doesn't mean that we can't use it as seed money over and over again
<ochosi> knome: remind me, how much is it again?
<knome> usb sticks are nice, and sure, we need to do a trial order even if we use a vendor
<knome> we have about 250 euros
<ochosi> hm, nice
<pleia2> I've only used zazzle so far
<pleia2> also, if we do find a marketing thing we like, there is still the flavors pool of money we can make requests against: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/06/20/ubuntu-donations-and-community-funding/
<smartboyhw> Speaking of T-shirts: You can only purchase it from USA, Canada, Europe or Japan if you use Spreadshirt
<smartboyhw> Which is why I have to via xequenc to get one
<smartboyhw> So, not a good idea for you guys.
<pleia2> smartboyhw: thanks, good to know
<smartboyhw> (to use Spreadshirt)
<knome> yes, that was one of the problems with spreadshirt
<knome> micahg-work, sure, but "seed money" for me sounds like "new marketing projects"
<micahg-work> and?
<knome> because ultimately, we don't want to run the merch business ourself
<knome> we just want to set up xubuntu-branded merch on other vendors
<GridCube> \o
<micahg-work> it becomes more of an endowment rather than a gift to spend
<knome> micahg-work, i don't think we should user 250 euros to usb sticks to sell them away
<knome> micahg-work, i think we should rather work with a vendor to get it right (tm) and allow people to order from the vendor directly
<micahg-work> knome, sure, that works too
<lderan> aye that makes sense to me
<knome> so if we want usb sticks... sure, but we don't need to use a lot of money to create them
<micahg-work> but doesn't that usually require some initial investment to "get it right"
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> unless the vendor is willing to work with us on it
<knome> but sure
<pleia2> order from a couple places to check on quality
<knome> but there's no way getting the initial investment back
<knome> if we spend it, we spend it
<knome> if something is not right and even if we used 15 euros for it, i don't want to sell that to our users
<knome> because it isn't right
<pleia2> yeah, we'll just keep them ourselves
<knome> that's why i'm +1'ing ordering t-shirts
<knome> we've run that project already, and we need some more of that initial investment
<ochosi> we can always give stuff that isn't right for free
 * lderan will accept reject xubuntu usb sticks / t-shirts 
<knome> ochosi, sure, but money-wise, that's the same as keeping it
<pleia2> we have to start somewhere
<ochosi> pleia2: +1
<knome> i would be +1 for the t-shirts
<knome> that's possible the best merch
<pleia2> let's start there then
<knome> people need clothes, they want to promote xubuntu
<GridCube> i wonder if there would ever be a new USD thats not virtual, if thats the case i would vote to keep the money to help whoever goes to one of those
<knome> -> they order a t-shirt
<knome> GridCube, 250 euros isn't too much to spend on that
<GridCube> no, sure, but it would help
<knome> GridCube, say it's in the states, and i needed to travel there
<ochosi> how much money would be needed for t-shirts that go from a vendor anyway?
<knome> GridCube, the flights would be something multiple times that money already
<pleia2> ochosi: custom shirt + shipping is around $30
<GridCube> sure, but it will help
<pleia2> (less once you get to bulk)
<ochosi> right, but how much would it cost for us to set it up?
<GridCube> in any case i dont think theres any usd thats in real person soon, or ever
<knome> GridCube, i think it's more sensible to use that money to various different things, if that helps us getting the t-shirts to a shippable state etc.
<GridCube> i understand
<ochosi> how many t-shirts would we order in order to test that the merch is "good" ?
<knome> ochosi, one, if the quality is good
<knome> ochosi, so far, there have been clear defects 
<knome> so we won't order again from the same vendor because there is a risk one of our users get a defect shirt as well
<knome> so the answer is: we don't know
<ochosi> sounds like an investment into t-shirt market-research
<pleia2> so we should decide upon a style of shirt to order, then pick a few vendors to order some from
<knome> until somebody does it right.
<micahg-work> can we find the vendor Canonical uses for their shirts?
<pleia2> logo on black is really hard to do right, so I'm inclined to go with a white or blue shirt as the base
<knome> don't know how black/blue would be much different
<pleia2> light blue ;)
<knome> it's easy to get it right if you want to get it right
<knome> the problem with online vendors is that they are doing it cheap
<knome> that's why it can be wrong time to time
<lderan> aye that they can be
<ochosi> i agree with micahg-work, let's just use canonical's vendor
<pleia2> yeah, not much color balancing for a dark background, so the logo ends up looking even darker
<micahg-work> ochosi, Canonical probably orders several thousand, so it might not be possible, but at least worth looking into
<pleia2> ochosi: afaik you need to have a bulk agreement with them
<knome> this discussion leads me thinking we should just do a white t-shirt first
<knome> most vendors are supposed to get that right
<knome> so basically:
<knome> find a vendor with reasonable (shipping) prices and good coverage on shipping destinations
<knome> then order one t-shirt
<knome> and if it's good, make it official
<knome> then look into other colors.
<knome> maybe.
<pleia2> yep
<knome> that way we'll use about $30
<knome> investigting and googling is free of charge
<knome> (for now)
<GridCube> i've never bought any, but i've heard that topatoco products are rather nice
<knome> #action knome to see designing a white-bg t-shirt
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to see designing a white-bg t-shirt
<ochosi> sorry folks, i gotta run
<pleia2> and anyone with vendor ideas, please add to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects#T-shirts
<GridCube> :) bye
<lderan> by ochosi 
<ochosi> i'll be back a bit after the meeting, i'll read the backlog and reply later
<lderan> bye*
<knome> anything else on the topic?
<knome> i'd encourage people to discuss this on the mailing list
<smartboyhw> You guys have a contract with canonical right?
<knome> feels a waste of time to meet every 2 weeks on a meeting and babble 30 mins about merch ;)
<knome> smartboyhw, what contract would you be referring to?
<smartboyhw> knome, I remembered that ttoine (our person who made the shop happen) spent 2 months working out a deal between Canonical and Spreadsheet or something
<smartboyhw> Best to ask him, but the legalese must be sorted out
<knome> we've asked canonical if it's okay to do this on the legal sense.
<pleia2> we're not making profit on this, it's all promotional material so within our trademark rights (we asked)
<knome> anyway,
<knome> #topic Team updates
<knome> anything? (please #info and #action, and do it quickly :P)
<micahg-work> #info Xubuntu restricted extras to not carry chromium codecs (Ubuntu just added it to theirs)
<knome> cool
<knome> (or that's how you perceive it, but i think it's cool)
<jjfrv8> #info review of saucy docs is about 80% complete.
<GridCube> #info the desktop of the week team has been in touch with some desktop screenshotters for the licenses that where missing, we are starting to get some responses but not so fast as we would wish
<micahg-work> #action micahg to review ochosi's gmb patch
<meetingology> ACTION: micahg to review ochosi's gmb patch
<knome> micahg-work, when's the last date you can upload new stuff before going away?
<knome> we need an upload for the artwork package when the new wallpaper is ready
<knome> (trivial, but needs to be done)
<knome> would wednesday 18 work for you?
<micahg-work> having it by this weekend would be nice, I think the beta freeze might be moving, so next weekend might be viable as well
<micahg-work> no, if it's quick I can do it night of the 17th
<knome> i'll see if i can get it done by weekend
<knome> #topic Announcements
<micahg-work> #info micahg unavailable Sep 19-21 and 26-28
<knome> #info Jack Fromm (jjrfv8) is the new Xubuntu Documentation lead. Congratulations!
<lderan> \o/
<pleia2> \o/
<micahg-work> congrats!
 * jjfrv8 blushes
<smartboyhw> \o/
<GridCube> \o/
<GridCube> :D 
<knome> #topic New and emerging items
<knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
<knome> do we want a meeting next week? (UIF, B2F, DocF)
<jjfrv8> i might have a problem making next thursday
<micahg-work> might be good to nail down issues that need to be fixed before beta 2
 * micahg-work won't be around either though
<knome> micahg-work, yeah, though that's the b2 freeze day.
 * pleia2 out of town too
<knome> would wednesday or tuesday be more suitable?
<jjfrv8> either for me
<knome> that'd leave us some actual time to fix the issues before the freeze
<knome> and not a meeting with lots of "we're too late"
<micahg-work> tuesday would be better as I won't be able to do much Wed
<knome> everybody else fineish with tue?
<pleia2> I'm gone all week, but you don't need me for b2 stuff :)
<knome> nope, only the release announcement stuff you'll prepare this week
 * knome hides
<pleia2> lol
<knome> no, we're fin
<knome> e
<lderan> i'll be able to do tuesday :P
<knome> #info Next Xubuntu community meeting: Tuesday, September 17 at 15UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 12 15:43:00 2013 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-09-12-15.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-09-12-15.02.html
<knome> thanks!
<knome> i'll put up the meeting minutes up later today
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> np
<knome> somebody else could chair the meeting next time ;)
<knome> anyway, bbl
<lderan> i would not do a good job, since im at work and dont have much to contribute
<elfy> re meeting next week - I'll miss that again
<knome> elfy, d'oh :)
<elfy> I keep having to do stuff like work :(
<knome> i know, that kind of stuff sucks
<elfy> I'll try and get #info together for it 
<knome> okay
<knome> or just send to email list
<knome> currently, we're not using the team reports the way we should, so it doesn't matter
<knome> it's just for internal communication to know what's going on
<elfy> yep
<elfy> I'll do that probably 
<elfy> generally it's all looking fairly good/same as - packages is good - iso's are the same as normal - get done if I call for testing 
<knome> yep
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-13
<knome> i moved all Xubuntu/Artwork subpages under Xubuntu/Roadmap in the wiki
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-14
<elfy> sound indicator seems to be working again
<Unit193> Really?  Recent updates, scroll wheel?
<elfy> just updated
<elfy> yep - scoll wheel
<Unit193> Yes! \o/
<elfy> also I noticed yesterday that tbird new mails get indicated
<elfy> I'd forgotten all about those 
<elfy> and a reboot stops the sound thing working 
<ali1234> elfy: i just upgraded, it doesn't work in gtk3 indicators
<ali1234> tbird mail indications working/not working is probably the same bug as with pidgin, which i think is bug 1203888
<ubottu> bug 1203888 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "appindicator doesn't work in Saucy" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1203888
<elfy> using the default indicators here
<ali1234> appindicator is same whether you use gtk2/3
<ali1234> because it's on dbus
<ali1234> i suppose the problem could be in gtk
<elfy> maybe so - no idea :)
<elfy> not usre why the thing was working this morning 
<ali1234> if you run killall blueman-applet and then blueman-applet in terminal, do you see that gtk error?
<ali1234> "signal 'child-added' is invalid for instance '0x193d0b0' of type 'GtkMenu'"
<elfy> I disable blueman
<elfy> I Can check though
<ali1234> anything that uses appindicator really
<ali1234> indicator-cpufreq, glipper
<ali1234> or even the example code i put on the bug (the second one)
<ali1234> what it seems like is because the signal is invalid, the indicator doesn't update when the client changes it's menus
<ali1234> eg because there's a new message from tbird or whatever
<brainwash_> appindicator is not an requirement, it's just an enhancement, right?
<ali1234> (child-added refers to adding/updating a menu item)
<ali1234> appindicator is how many apps make indicators
<elfy> I know that if I edit the service to Exec=/usr/lib/indicator-sound-gtk2/indicator-sound-service
<elfy> it works 
<brainwash_> like nm-applet?
<ali1234> yeah, nm-applet uses it
<ali1234> though i haven't see any problems with it
<ali1234> but it might be the case if a new wireless access point comes online it might not get added to the menu
<brainwash_> but nm-applet would still show up, if appindicator is missing, right?
<elfy> ali1234: also - I think the reason I started noticing tbird notifications is this is a new install and I'd not set notifications to 1 second from 10
<ali1234> brainwash_: if appindicator is missing it won't show up, but that isn't the bug
<ali1234> the bug is that the menus can't be changed once the indicator is created
<brainwash_> I know, just wanted to understand what appindicator actually does
<ali1234> and some indicators create a empty menu and then try to add items after
<ali1234> others just update them when some event happens and that is also broken
<ali1234> well, to see what appindicator does, just check the minimal test case on the bug ^
<ali1234> it's also the simplest way to create an indicator in python
<elfy> is that what's causing the sound indicator to fail? 
<ali1234> if you run that code it makes an indicator with "One" menu item and then adds a second menu item "Two" - in saucy you never see "Two"
<ali1234> elfy: no sound indicator is a different bug afaik
<ali1234> sound indicator works ok with gtk3 except for the scroll wheel on the icon bug
<elfy> ok - well I'd not notice a blueman one - even if I had it enabled as I don't have any bluetooth things to notice it with :p
<elfy> ali1234: well that kind of makes that as bad as not working at all lol 
<ali1234> why?
<elfy> because that's what people use it for :)
<ali1234> you can still change the volume by clcking on it, it still shows the current sound status and all the menu items work
<ali1234> and you can see eg rhythmbox current song and skip tracks
<ali1234> mouse wheel over the menu even works, only over the icon doesn't work
<ali1234> and it is broken exactly the same in unity anyway
<elfy> it might well be - I'm not pointing fingers 
<ali1234> every bug remaining with gtk3 indicators also affects unity
<ali1234> so there's nothing we can do with our side
<elfy> are we going to actually definitely going to gtk3 by release of 13.10?
<elfy> indicators
<ali1234> i think the plan is to put it in backports
<ali1234> and then include it in 14.04
<ali1234> but it's not up to me
<elfy> so we need to have gtk2 working as well then I assume
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> there's only like two gtk2 indicators left, sound is one of them
<ali1234> the other is appindicator
<elfy> I know 
<ali1234> if appindicator is broken on gtk2 i suggest to start with the example test code
<elfy> the fix is easy enough to get sound one working
<elfy> ali1234: anyway thanks for the info
<Unit193> ali1234: Oooh!  Using grml-rescueboot now too? :D
#xubuntu-devel 2013-09-15
<ali1234> hah. i know why indicator-sound worked briefly for elfy
<ali1234> it's a race condition
<ali1234> between the indicator and anything else that uses the service
<ali1234> because the gtk3 indicators use d-bus service activation, the gtk3 dbus-backends can get loaded before the indicator plugins
<ali1234> since they have the same service names, then the gtk2 version won't load
<ali1234> so it breaks
<ali1234> this is only a problem if you have the gtk2 and gtk3 versions installed at the same time
<ali1234> but for some weird reason indicator-sound-gtk2 depends on indicator-sound
<micahg> ali1234: hrm, that's bad, it makes sense though as the gtk3 version is progressing without concern for the gtk2 version, I guess our only hope might be to try for the gtk3 indicators, but I'm very reluctant still
<micahg> maybe we can rename the gtk2 dbus services to not share the same names
<ali1234> that will break all apps that use sound menu won't it?
<ali1234> like rhythmbox won't be able to put it's controls in there
<micahg> hrm
<ali1234> i already thought of this :)
<micahg> how did this all work before?
<ali1234> before d-bus service activation was not used at all
<ali1234> this is caused by indicator-ng
<ali1234> not gtk3 directly
<micahg> I don't see indicator-ng in saucy
<ali1234> indicator-ng is new in saucy
<ali1234> it's not a package
<micahg> oh
<ali1234> it's just "the new way"
<micahg> aside from uploading the old gtk3 indicator stack, I'm not sure what to d
<ali1234> i have a feeling that having indicator-sound-gtk2 depend on indcaitor-sound is unneccessary
<ali1234> and that removing indicator-sound and rebooting would make indicator-sound-gtk2 work correctly in xfce
<ali1234> (force removing without removing dependants that is)
<micahg> well, it used to have files needed for the gtk2 versions to work
<ali1234> which files?
<micahg> ali1234: can you try that with equivs (or I can build you test packages)
<micahg> idr, but that's why it was there originally
<ali1234> i can't test, because all my stuff is patched for gtk3/indicator-ng
<micahg> I wish I would've know this 3 weeks ago :(
<ali1234> i'm not sure if that stuff i just said about d-bus activation is actually true
<ali1234> i need to look at the raring packages really
<micahg> it would be nice to know for sure, we've got 4 weeks left (2 for beta 2) and I'd hate to drop the rest of the indicators
<ali1234> the rest?
<micahg> well, if they're broke, I'm not sure we have any other choice but to drop or jump to patched gtk3
<ali1234> there is only sound and appindcator that still have gtk2 versions
<ali1234> and appindicator is currently broken in gtk3
<ali1234> i need to make several vms...
<micahg> ok, please let me know when you find something
<ali1234> ok. it won't be tonight, it's 3am here
<micahg> understood, whenever you get to it will be appreciated
<Unit193> micahg: Just dropping the dep on on the gtk3 one might be something elfy can try, if it's a quick package install.
<micahg> Unit193: sure, I can generate something, can you tell me which packages?  (appindicator and indicator-sound)?
<Unit193> That'd be my guess, I was going to quickly try something in VM, but just broke that...
<ali1234> ok i've got the vms going
<ali1234> hmm interesting
<ali1234> in raring, the service running is the gtk3 indicator service
<ali1234> but it works
<ali1234> so i guess the d-bus backends must have previously shared the same api, but now the gtk3 one has changed
<ali1234> moving aside the d-bus service does not cause the gtk2 one to get loaded instead
<ali1234> so the only way to really fix this is going to be to update the indicator to the new d-bus api
<micahg> ali1234: let me know if that's fairly straightforward
<Noskcaj> micahg, any progress on the pkg-xubuntu team?
<micahg> Noskcaj: no, not yet
<Noskcaj> :(
<micahg> let me see if I can poke someone this weekend
<Noskcaj> We'll probably need to package simple-scan and alacarte with the team too.
<micahg> ok, sure
<ali1234> micahg: the whole dbus service has been rewritten from scratch
<ali1234> somewhere in this lot is what needs to be backported to -gtk2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6110453/
<ali1234> even the build system has been changed from make to cmake
<brainwash_> I disabled the language indicator by setting "show-language-selector=false" in lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf, but one small white pixel still remains.
<brainwash_> Anybody else noticed that?
<jjfrv8> brainwash_, I can reproduce that
<brainwash_> worth creating a bug report? I assume that (almost) nobody is affected by this little tiny glitch, it's just a white pixel after all :D
<micahg> gah
<Noskcaj> Did we do anything to xfce4-session this cycle? I get a heap of error messages when i turn on my PC from apps that it decided where open.
<Noskcaj> Also, usb-modeset-data won't upgrade
<ochosi> brainwash_: yeah, unfortunately it's known, we'll fix it eventually
<micahg> hrm, ok, I'd like to know when that breaking change to the indicators landed if it was part of http://launchpadlibrarian.net/150184786/indicator-sound_12.10.2%2B13.10.20130829-0ubuntu1_12.10.2%2B13.10.20130913-0ubuntu1.diff.gz or something previous
<micahg> if it was after feature freeze, we can push back
<ochosi> i think at least the bugreport was earlier than FF
<ochosi> micahg: any chance you can take a quick look at the gmusicbrowser patch?
<micahg> yeah, in a bit
<ochosi> nice, thanks
<knome> jjfrv8, your merge proposal has been merged
<ali1234> micahg: i looked at the sound-indicator thing and i can't see any reasonable way to make it work
<ali1234> the whole dbus service looks like it has been rewritten and even the build system was changed from make to cmake
<micahg> ali1234: can you tell which upload broke it?
<ali1234> how do i see a list of uploads?
<micahg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+changelog
<ali1234> the breakage is in the gtk3 indicator anyway - the gtk2 indicator has not changed at all since raring
<micahg> right, I'm wondering if it was after feature freeze (Aug 29)
<micahg> if so, I can most likely get it reverted and/or get help to make it work for us
<micahg> otherwise, we might have to try to push our gtk3 stack in
<ali1234> at a guess this one: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/12.10.2+13.10.20130716-0ubuntu1
<ali1234> "sorry for the big changeset"
<ali1234> can i download those debs and try them?
<micahg> sure
<micahg> just click on the arch you want
<ali1234> ok i'll do a bisect and see what hapens
<micahg> if it was back in July, it becomes our fault for not testing enough
<ali1234> well, not really
<micahg> if it's after Aug 29, they'd need a freeze exception and I'd have some leverage
<micahg> I mean, some communication would've been nice, but if it's before feature freeze, there's not much we can do
<ali1234> Reported by       Elfy       on 2013-07-22
<micahg> :(
<ali1234> that is the date the package after that one was uploaded
<ali1234> still think it's that one though
<ali1234> the fix would always have been "update the gtk2 indicator for the new api" anyway
<ali1234> but from looking at the diff, that would be almost as complex as pushing the gtk3 stack instead
<micahg> right
<micahg> I'm thinking to do the latter with a release note
<micahg> unfortunately, I don't see myself having this ready before next sunday
<micahg> Canonical seems to love breaking APIs...
<micahg> LTS+1 is the time to do that, not LTS-1
<knome> are we cranky today?
<micahg> maybe :)
 * knome gives micahg a cookie
<micahg> ali1234: do we know if the gtk3 stack will work with the new APIs
 * micahg has sugar overload
<ali1234> new APIs?
 * knome takes the cookie away from micahg and gives him a glass of water
<ali1234> which ones?
<micahg> ali1234: indicator stack
<ali1234> (it works with all of them actually)
<ali1234> i ported the indicator-ng changes - the indicator-sound change is between the indicator itself and it's dbus backend and they both live in the same package if you're on gtk3
<micahg> knome: I wasn't very happy to found a decision I made to preserve stability left us with a totally broken indicator stack due to existing changes this cycle
<knome> mhm
<micahg> ali1234: ok, thanks for your help with this, we'll have to do the best we can I geuss
<knome> grumpyness doesn't fix the issue though, does it? :)
<ali1234> the sound thing does boil down to dbus activation - you can only have one activation script and it activates the gtk3 dbus backend which *used* to work wit the gtk2 indicator but now they are out of sync
<ali1234> there is a workaround on the bug actually
<ali1234> someone put a test into the activation script so it runs the gtk2 backend if XUBUNTU_DESKTOP is set
<micahg> which bug is this?
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1208204/comments/27
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1208204 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "indicator-sound no longer functions with xfce4-indicator-plugin" [High,Triaged]
<ali1234> (and the original report on 22 july is marked a duplicate of that)
<ali1234> i'm just going to post a comment there summing up the situation
<ochosi> at least i can say i've tested the gtk3 variant for quite a while now and it seems as stable as the gtk2 variant used to be
<Unit193> But, need to roll something from git head.
<micahg> I wonder what's working, hacking up the dbus service file or pushing gtk3 stack...
<micahg> s/working/worse/
<micahg> I have to run out for a bit, I'll be back
<ochosi> well tbh the gtk3 stack seems a bit more sustainable
<ochosi> hacking on the dbus stuff to keep gtk2 running for one more cycle...
<ochosi> that sounds a bit like a waste of time
<micahg> that's assuming it's just the service file
<micahg> otherwise, agreed
<knome> just for the sake it's not LTS, but LTS-1, +1 for the gtk3 stack...
<ali1234> just patching the service file to always run the gtk2 backend does work (tested by others) but it also breaks other desktops since you can only have one service file
<ali1234> adding a complex /bin/sh test to it might have weird side effects and is not tested
<ochosi> can't you add a session-query like the sound-indicator does?
<ali1234> add it to what though?
<ochosi> some wrapper script
<ali1234> that's what the workaround in comment 27 does
<ochosi> ah right, hadn't looked at it so closely
<ali1234> Exec=/bin/sh -c 'if [ -n "$(pidof xfce4-session)" ]; then /usr/lib/indicator-sound-gtk2/indicator-sound-service;else /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-sound/indicator-sound-service;fi'
<ali1234> instead of just of Exec=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-sound/indicator-sound-service
<Unit193> Wouldn't it be better ot -f the file?
<ali1234> well i don't know about that - it's just a proof of concept and i don't think anyone even really tested it
<ali1234> i agree that gtk3 would be less hassle long term
<ali1234> nobody is maintaining this gtk2 stuff any more
<ali1234> that's the whole reason for the problem
<ali1234> it's out of sync with gtk3 (again)
<ali1234> and it will only keep happening
<ochosi> very true
<ochosi> it has happened before
<ochosi> we lost the messaging-menu that way as well
<ali1234> yeah, i know all about it :(
<ali1234> as i said, it's why i didn't use xubuntu before
<ochosi> well nice to have you "on board" now
<ochosi> i prepared a tiny patch for the power-indicator to work with xfce4-powerman
<ali1234> i only found out about the gtk3 progress because someone posted the irc log of the xmir meeting on reddit
<ochosi> nice :)
<ali1234> i don't care about xmir but the indicator stuff got me interested again
<ali1234> i have not tested the power indicator cos i am on a desktop... don't even know how to make it show
<ochosi> ah righ
<ochosi> t
<ochosi> well it's very basic tbh
<ochosi> it shows a power-icon and a very short menu
<ochosi> if the drivers support it, it shows brightness controls
<ochosi> or maybe it needs more gnome-powerman for that
<ali1234> i've seen it in unity on my laptop
<ochosi> and then it shows the de/charging time/percent
<ochosi> and it has a "preferences" menuitem
<ali1234> but i rarely use that
<ochosi> which i patched to open xfce4-powerman if it's run in a xubuntu session
<ali1234> ah yes... all the indicators have checks to run different prefs panels in different desktops
<ochosi> (agreeable it does create a problem in case someone uses gnome-powerman in xubuntu)
<ali1234> there are lots in sound-indicator
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> we could also fork the session menu if we wanted
<ochosi> shouldn't be all-too-hard
<ali1234> why?
<ali1234> just to get the xfce session-save dialog?
<ochosi> nah, i actually prefer xfce's action.menu
<knome> be back later.
<bluesabre> ali1234: hi, I'm trying to get the gtk3-indicators working, I've followed ochosi's instructions here: http://dpaste.com/1381815/
<ali1234> ok
<bluesabre> currently, everything seems to be working except for the sound indicator, see: http://imagebin.org/271044
<ali1234> ther was one missing line iirc
<ali1234> oh?
<ali1234> that looks like it is working to me?
<bluesabre> the sound indicator's volume slider and playback buttons are missing
<ali1234> yes... theme perhaps?
<bluesabre> using greybird from git, ochosi added support
<ali1234> can you check the log...
<ali1234> ~/.cache/xfce4-indicator-plugin.log
<ali1234> look for missing icon warnings and so on
<ali1234> no sure if they would show up there or not
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> WARNING    Gtk                       gtk_menu_new_from_model: cannot find type 'com.canonical.unity.slider'
<bluesabre> WARNING    Gtk                       gtk_menu_new_from_model: cannot find type 'com.canonical.unity.media-player'
<bluesabre> WARNING    Gtk                       gtk_menu_new_from_model: cannot find type 'com.canonical.unity.playback-item'
<ali1234> yeah that's it
<ochosi> ali1234: i vaguely remember having seen bluesabre's problem before here myself, but i'm not sure why...
<ali1234> ido provides several new menu models
<ali1234> you might have the wrong version
<ali1234> there is a gtk2 and a gtk3 version
<bluesabre> ah, ok
<ali1234> or maybe you don't have it at all
<ali1234> i think andrzejr added possibility to compile without it
<ali1234> then it won't get loaded
<ali1234> so... make sure libido is installed and then rerun autogen.sh and rebuild the indicator-plugin (last thing you built)
<bluesabre> ok, I'll try that now
<ali1234> there are a couple of those warnings i still get even with ido installed properly
<ali1234> WARNING    Gtk                       gtk_menu_new_from_model: cannot find type 'com.canonical.indicator.switch'
<ali1234> but i can't find what library is supposed to supply that one and there is literally zero documentation from any of this com.canonical.indicator stuff
<ochosi> yup, lack of docs really blows
<ochosi> good luck bluesabre and night everyone!
<bluesabre> woohoo, that did it, thanks a lot ali1234!
<ochosi> hm, guess that should be included in the instructions...
<bluesabre> :)
<ali1234> ido is indicator-ng stuff, so it's newer than those instructions :)
<ochosi> ali1234: i just received an update here on the sound-indicator that supposedly fixes scrolling
<ochosi> will try to install that update and then report back whether it works (again)
<ali1234> "just"?
<ali1234> i updated earlier and no change
<ali1234> earlier today i mean
<ochosi> well i "just" ran update-manager now
<ali1234> ok i see the fix
<ali1234> but 1204036
<ali1234> bug 1204036
<ubottu> bug 1204036 in The Sound Menu "[Regression]Mouse wheel to change volume stopped working on Saucy" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204036
<ali1234> i have that version: it's still broken in xfce
<ali1234> andrzejr said this was the case
<ochosi> hm, then it's still broken with the xfce-plugin
<ali1234> ok, at least i can try to fix it now
<ochosi> yeah, but it sounded like he wasn't sure why
<ali1234> maybe related to why child-added events aren't passed
<ali1234> wait no, that is also broken on unity too
<ali1234> can't be that
<ochosi> m, i can confirm that it's broken
<ochosi> in xfce
<ochosi> ok, bedtime (this time for real)
<ochosi> ttyl ali1234 
<ali1234> night
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-08
<bluesabre> brainwash: still in progress, first fixes for lp 1320560 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1320560 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu) "Removal of gdmflexiserver breaks user switching" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1320560
<bluesabre> first batch of fixes (utopic) uploaded here: https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/ubuntu/lp1320560
<bluesabre> the xscreensaver one might be minimized a bit more
<bluesabre> bbl
<writing_novel> Hello all
<writing_novel> I am trying out Xubuntu and am unhappy with the mangling of the XFCE interface. The entire idea behind XFCE (originally) was to retain the GNOME2 look and feel, which stands absent in Xubuntu. Is there any way I can engage to normalize the XFCE back to the GNOME2 look it was created to represent?
<skellat> Are you sure you haven't confused us with MATE?
<writing_novel> NO. I was told that Ubuntu had an XFCE type interface and it was called Xubuntu
<writing_novel> Mate is NOT ubuntu
<writing_novel> I know that is a fact unless you are confused about it.
<writing_novel> Mate is NOT an ubuntu product at all
<writing_novel> if you read MATE's website you can learn that
<Unit193> Nor is Xfce, Ubuntu uses it.
<Unit193> https://ubuntu-mate.org/
<writing_novel> you have entirely confused me
<writing_novel> I am looking to run an actual Ubuntu system with a normal XFCE interface
<writing_novel> thats all I want
<writing_novel> is that possible?
<skellat> Yes
<skellat> To do that you would have to install from the minimal installer disc...
<skellat> ...and then select the xfce4 metapackage
<writing_novel> OK, I willing to do that!
<Unit193> Quite, or you caan remove the Xubuntu packages and reset your config, normally by deleteing ~/.config/
<writing_novel> I do not know what packages to remove
<skellat> Unit193: That's usually a lot more catastrophic.  A clean install from mini.iso would probably be safest.
<writing_novel> ok
<writing_novel> I am willing to reinstall it
<writing_novel> I am using a Virtual Machine to do it anyway, its no big deal
<Unit193> skellat: Basically just xubuntu-default-settings, xubuntu-artwork, and xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin too for extra credit.
<skellat> Unit193: That won't catch any Suggests that were installed, though, if memory serves.
<writing_novel> I am trying to find this mini.iso thing on the website
<writing_novel> no luck yet
<Unit193> skellat: Suggests aren't installed, perhaps you mean recommends?  That'll still give you more of a stock Xfce.
<Unit193> !mini | writing_novel 
<ubottu> writing_novel: The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want.  The installer is text based (rather than graphical as used on the Desktop DVD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
<writing_novel> Is there a CD I can download so I could do an install like that on a machine that were not internet connected?
<writing_novel> that I could aggregate everything I needed to do an offline install?
<writing_novel> brb - need to run to the washing machine
<writing_novel> back
<writing_novel> By the way the menu at the bottom is missing too!
<writing_novel> (the "Mac like" menu I mean)
 * Unit193 scratches head at gtk-theme-config.
<knome> writing_novel, the "mac like" menu you are asking for is not in the default xfce installation, nor in the default xubuntu installation.
<knome> writing_novel, fwiw, the idea behind xfce never was to retain the GNOME2 look
<brainwash> bluesabre: does the xubuntu/xfce session export GDMSESSION?
<brainwash> or lightdm
<slickymasterWork> elfy: re: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/09/06/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t14:39 no you don't, that font isn't installed by default
<slickymasterWork> you have to do it yourself. You can get it here: http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/Bitstream-Vera-Sans-Mono
<slickymasterWork> Unit193: what exactly does http://paste.openstack.org/show/cZed8nUINAyyEi0HxMKP/ do?
<Unit193> Changes how and when the validation is run?
<slickymasterWork> lol, are you asking me?
<slickymasterWork> but I'm assuming that in relates to the translations, right?
<slickymasterWork> s/in/it
<Unit193> Mainly, but also validates the English ones now too.
<slickymasterWork> ah, ok
<slickymasterWork> thanks for the clarification U
<slickymasterWork> Unit193: 
<elfy> mmm - so why use that font
<slickymasterWork> because that's what was considered the default template for all the xfce documentation elfy 
<slickymasterWork> elfy: FWIW I've marked bug 1365815 as a duplicate of bug 1366206
<ubottu> bug 1366206 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1365815 Graphical desktop not starting from livesession" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1366206
<ubottu> bug 1366206 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "Graphical desktop not starting from livesession" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1366206
<elfy> slickymasterWork: I wish you hadn't - they are different bugs :)
<slickymasterWork> hmmm, different in what way?
<slickymasterWork> I think I'm able to revert it anyway
<elfy> they are completely different things - 1365815 is just about there being no wallpaper at the try/install screen
<elfy> I undid the dupe
<elfy> and THAT bug is a dupe of one we had during trusty/saucy at times 
<elfy> just can't find it :)
 * slickymasterWork admits he's puzzled 
<elfy> 1366206 is after you've worked around 1365815
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I see that now
 * slickymasterWork now sees the difference between the two
<slickymasterWork> btw elfy, thanks for opening the xfpm bug
<slickymasterWork> lunch time ->
<elfy> slickymasterWork: seems that is a bug in vm only - unless you can say differently
<Unit193> ochosi: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce/+packages?field.name_filter=xfdashboard boop.
<slickymasterWork> nopes elfy, I wouldn't. I'm also inclined to VM bug only
<brainwash> speaking of bugs.. where are the people who test dev releases and report bugs? or is xubuntu 14.10 almost bug-free? :)
<Unit193> I just test 'em, I don't report 'em.
<Unit193> ...Nah, I just nag Sean about them. ;)
<brainwash> so, even when apport appears, you simply click on the close button?
<Unit193> Heh, kidding, I just don't like reporting, still do it.  Generally when it's apport, for some reason or another it's unreportable, so can't file one.
<elfy> brainwash: I think there are about 5 people who test dev 
<elfy> probably not a good idea to go there just now ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: thanks, copied
<slickymasterWork> knome ping
<knome> slickymasterWork pong
<slickymasterWork> just a quick doubt
<slickymasterWork> I've merged yesterday jjfrv8 proposal -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/revision/240
<slickymasterWork> but it isn't showing in the brach, do you have any idea why
<slickymasterWork> ?
<slickymasterWork> s/brach/brach
<slickymasterWork> sihg
<elfy> :)
<slickymasterWork> bah
<slickymasterWork> branch
<knome> what isn't showing?
<slickymasterWork> jjfrv8's new string
<knome> did you update the pot?
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, revision 241
<knome> revision 241 isn't available in the main branch
<knome> only your own branch..
<slickymasterWork> yes, correct, that's because the branches diverged, so I had to fix it
<knome> i also see revision 242 on your branch, but not the main branch
<slickymasterWork> I believe it was fixed with revision 242
<slickymasterWork> so that's the problem
<knome> main branch has revision 240 though...
<slickymasterWork> how do I go about fixing that?
<knome> main branch being lp:xubuntu-docs
<knome> well get the main branch
<knome> run the command
<knome> and run: bzr push lp:xubuntu-docs
<slickymasterWork> which command the commit one?
<knome> *sighs* ;)
<knome> first, get the latest main branch:
<knome> bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs
<knome> then, run the translation pot update script:
<knome> ./scripts/get-pot.sh
<knome> then do a commit
<slickymasterWork> so far that's what I've done
<knome> bzr commit -m "Update translation template"
<slickymasterWork> and the push
<slickymasterWork> then
<knome> then push it to the MAIN branch:
<knome> bzr push lp:xubuntu-docs
<slickymasterWork> that's what I did knome 
<knome> nope, you have pushed your changes twice to your own branch
<knome> that is, lp:~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs
<knome> as we see at https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs
 * slickymasterWork could almost swear that he pushed it to the main branch
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll go through the motions once again, when I get home
<knome> but as we can see at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/utopic (alias lp:xubuntu-docs), there's no revision 241
<knome> i can do that too
<slickymasterWork> let me try to do it once again knome, just to see if I'm doing things correctly, or not
<knome> done.
<knome> sorry...
<knome> you can do that the next time
<knome> you did everything else correctly except the last bit
<knome> note that if you have pulled from your own branch
 * slickymasterWork is sad
<knome> then the default :parent is that branch
<knome> so if you want to force pushing to the main branch, you'll have to type lp:xubuntu-docs
<slickymasterWork> yeah and the strange thing is that I don't have any doubts about the all process 
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> can't imagine what might have gone wrong
 * knome shrugs
<knome> everything else seemed to have gone with no problems
<knome> since the commits were in your branch
 * slickymasterWork scratches his head 
<slickymasterWork> knome, this was the command I issued -> bzr commit -m "bla bla" && bzr push lp:xubuntu-docs
<knome> yeah,
<knome> something still went wrong...
<slickymasterWork> I'm getting the idea that Unit193 is right about bzr
<slickymasterWork> it's evil
<knome> well it's probably true in some way with all version control systems
<slickymasterWork> :)
<slickymasterWork> knome, as you're at it, can you please also push to the main branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/revision/241
<slickymasterWork> beacuse that's the one which have the updated changelog
<knome> hrhrr :)
<knome> done
<slickymasterWork> you're a gentleman
<slickymasterWork> (me bows
 * slickymasterWork bows
<knome> yw
<pleia2> knome: all good for publishing donate page?
<knome> i would probably consider the page title
<knome> it's ok to put it in the navigation as "Donate"
<knome> but as title, it's a bit meh
 * pleia2 shrugs
<pleia2> other suggestions?
<knome> i would try to link it with "helping xubuntu"
<slickymasterWork> knome, pleia2, sorry for stepping in, but why not "Donate now - Support Xubuntu" as a title?
<pleia2> so the point of this page is that we don't actually accept donations but people really want a donate button
<pleia2> as long as that's communicated, I don't care about the title :)
<pleia2> I also don't know how to have a different link for title and link text
<slickymasterWork> well, knome knows how to do that, for sure
<knome> yep
<knome> "Help us build Xubuntu?" ?
<knome> err -?
<knome> or create
<knome> or sth
<pleia2> how useful are any of these things really?
<knome> it *looks* better than "Donate"
<pleia2> money is kind of meh, we want contributors
<knome> right
<knome> well
<slickymasterWork> that's almost our motto for contributors
<knome> we do list contributing as an option
<pleia2> but if all you have is money...
<knome> so, in a way "donate" is not even appropriate
<knome> "Help Xubuntu and friends" ?
<pleia2> my problem with "help xubuntu.." is that it doesn't help a whole lot ;)
<knome> i understand
<pleia2> I don't want to steer them away from contributing
<slickymasterWork> that does sound kinda of needy .
<knome> "Don't help Xubuntu, but buy a better conscience"
<pleia2> that's how you actually help xubuntu
<knome> that's better then...
<pleia2> lol
<knome> "Give your money away"
<slickymasterWork> most people do that this days
<knome> "How to spend money but not help Xubuntu at all"
<pleia2> "don't pour a bucket of ice water on your head"
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> somebody is riding on the elevator ALL THE TIME
<knome> stupid person
<knome> stupid sound
<pleia2> same person?
<knome> who knows
<knome> but i'd imagine so
<pleia2> haha
<knome> "Donation options"
<slickymasterWork> hey, why not "Pitch in"
<knome> slickymasterWork, they are not pitching in in xubuntu
<knome> *in the pleia2 voice*
<knome> they aren't all really even donations.
<pleia2> :P
<knome> if you buy stickers, it's commercial activity.
<slickymasterWork> well, they'd be endowing xubuntu with something
<knome> unixstickers.com makes money out of it.
<knome> then we might get some too
<knome> for giving away
<pleia2> it eventually results in something being donated to us :)
<knome> so it doesn't really help us..
<knome> i guess
<slickymasterWork> that was my impression
<knome> "yay, i got free stickers for all of my hard work since 2008"
<knome> </sarcasm>
<slickymasterWork> lol, I'm going to redecorate now, finally 
<knome> could make a shirt out of that
<knome> "i contributed to foss for 6 years and all i got was the sticker sticked to this shirt (disclaimer: t-shirt self-paid)
<knome> "
<knome> i don't know
<knome> what do we want to tell them?
<knome> if "help xubuntu" isn't communicating the right thing, then "donate" isn't either
<pleia2> the stickers help our marketing team, not our contributors
<knome> maybe we should switch the content the other way
<knome> talk about contributing first
<knome> then "if you can't contribute..."
<pleia2> sure
<knome> then maybe we could call the page "help xubuntu..."
<knome> does that sound any better to you?
<pleia2> ok
 * slickymasterWork still thinks that it sounds kinda of needy
<pleia2> we are needy :D
<slickymasterWork> :)
<slickymasterWork> why not "Support Xubuntu..." knome ?
<knome> because they are not supporting xubuntu...
<knome> *in the pleia2 voice*
<pleia2> my concern is that they'll click that instead of contribute
<pleia2> but if we add contributing to the first line, it's ok then
<elfy> if no-one can decide what this is actually about - then perhaps the decision should be whether to actually do it 
<pleia2> plus I kind of wanted an obvious donate button, but I got out voted :)
<pleia2> elfy: people on social media are always asking how to donate money, I don't want to advertise the bounty program without somewhere to point them
<elfy> donate money to Xubuntu - they can do that at ubuntu.com - kind of
<pleia2> elfy: yes, did you see the draft donate page?
<pleia2> have to log in: xubuntu.org/?page_id=2712
<elfy> yea I did 
<elfy> don't particularly agree with the order
<slickymasterWork> thing is that first paragraph clashes with what we intend to mean
<slickymasterWork> in the title that is
<elfy> title -> perhaps a question rather than statement 
<elfy> Can I donate?
<elfy> no - not exactly - but you could do this
<pleia2> wfm
<elfy> bountysource should be at the bottom though - that one 'might' help xubuntu - but on the other hand it might not as well 
<slickymasterWork> yeah, that might be a good idea to go around the all issue
<pleia2> elfy: could argue that for any of them
<elfy> yea - but the Canonical one - we can get some - we just have never asked
<elfy> stickers - if someone buys one we get a % of them
<elfy> bounty - if someone gets money and we don't actually make any use of that - it goes to xfce not us
<pleia2> for certain values of "us" (two of our members participate in it)
<elfy> yea 
<elfy> anyway - not really interested enough to argue anymore 
<knome> heh
<brainwash> Noskcaj: maybe we should wait until xfdesktop 4.11.8 is ready and mre it to trusty
<Noskcaj> ok
<brainwash> so we don't run into any regressions like https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11078
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11078 in General "broken icon support in xfdesktop 4.11.7" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> which has a patch
<Unit193> bluesabre: xfpm now supports 0.7.0, so changed the dep for the daily build to reflect this.
<writing_novel> I am experimenting with "Ubuntu GNOME" to see how well it works in classic mode, the initial load of it (absent the installation of the fallback debs) still did not really give a basic GNOME2 style menu, but I will see what the fallback does, perhaps it will give me the full GNOME2 style menuization and that.
<writing_novel> I have to say, it is nice to have a virtualized environment to test all this stuff!?!
<writing_novel> Seems like Metacity wins the prize!
<knome> writing_novel, unless you have a discussion that is related to xubuntu development, can you take it to an offtopic channel, like #xubuntu-offtopic? thanks.
<writing_novel> Well I was testing it with standard Ubuntu, but yes, I had been working with Xubuntu earlier to see how XFCE would look. I was quite surprised to see that Xubuntu did not have a standard XFCE interface but something very bastardized.
<writing_novel> Being interested to have a GNOME2 style interface, and seeing how close XFCE is on Debian, I presumed Xubuntu would instantiate similar functionality, however, it was shocking in the absence of such equitable function and I was met with that silly whisker junk. Thus, yesterday, I was asking here how to get a more standardized GNOME2 look from XFCE which most XFCE installs seem to yield.
<writing_novel> shocking=shockingly
<knome> i noticed the discussion, and even replied, but it isn't in the scope of this channel.
<writing_novel> Well what the scope of the discussion was, was how to get a GNOME2 like interface, that is and was what I was asking from the start (yesterday), although initially, Xubuntu was my intended vehicle to arrive at that configuration.
<writing_novel> But, again, I do appreciate everyone's input and I now know what I need to get the configuration I desire with Ubuntu
<knome> if you need help in configuring xubuntu, you can ask the support channel #xubuntu
<writing_novel> (woops, the initial discussion I referenced was in #Xubuntu not the devel group!)
<writing_novel> I apologize I didn't even realize I had clicked in here
<writing_novel> I much have been watching it yesterday
<writing_novel> sorry
<knome> that's okay :)
<knome> and following/lurking in here is fine as well
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks, I need to upload lxpanel to the ppa, we have dependency wait on trusty
<Unit193> Ahhh, right.
<Unit193> Fun times.
<knome> lxpanel? X|
<bluesabre> xfpm build deps
<knome> since when did we start maintaining lxde packages
<bluesabre> because we are nice folks
<Unit193> knome: xfpm lxpanel plugin, we/I had to fix lxpanel's package to include headers.
<knome> bluesabre, DEP?
<bluesabre> build-dep
<knome> right...
<knome> hr hr
 * bluesabre goes to maintain gnome-something
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-09
<bluesabre> Unit193: noticed xfpm builds are failing https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+recipe/xfpm-daily
<bluesabre> in case you're bored with shimmer stuff ;)
<Unit193> I see, usr/share/xfce4/panel-plugins => usr/share/xfce4/panel/plugins
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> eric probably tweaked something recently
<bluesabre> indeed indeed http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/commit/?id=488fc9570f15f45dc43a48e5ad0a23deadffc259
<Unit193> Pushed up to revision 10.                                                                                                    
<bluesabre> woot
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193
<Unit193> Sure thing.
<bluesabre> new builds activated
<Unit193> Should fail, revno and all.  Should be good tomorrow.
<Unit193> bluesabre: 0.6.2-0ubuntu2~14.04.1 != >= 0.6.2-0ubuntu2
<bluesabre> looks bigger
<Unit193> Not with the tilde.
<bluesabre> silly deb
<Unit193> Silly bluesabre. ;)
<Unit193> Any other packages I'm supposed to look at?
<bluesabre> anything else I messed up?
<bluesabre> 0.6.2-0ubuntu3~14.04.1 is definitely bigger
<Unit193> Pah! :D
<Unit193> bluesabre: I normally just directly go for 0.6.2-0ubuntu2 in this case, since utopic has it you won't (ever) need to upload that version again, but that's me.  You'd just have to change the changelog distribution.
 * bluesabre takes Unit193's suggestion
<Unit193> Eh, since we're on that, can you get with satyajit to actually release gtk-theme-config?
<bluesabre> he tagged the release
<Unit193> Oh?  Looked today and didn't see it. >_>
<bluesabre> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gtk-theme-config-maintainers/gtk-theme-config/trunk/changes
<bluesabre> its what we've been doing for "releases" in that project it seems
<bluesabre> when I get approved into that team, I'll handle releases a bit better
<bluesabre> or maybe I can poke ochosi to do it
<bluesabre> I do have some fixes for satya to do though
<Unit193> Oh, I see.
<Unit193> Heh, no clue how to do downloads. :P
<bluesabre> on utopic? apt-get source gtk-theme-config ;)
<bluesabre> I told him to tag the release, then pulled and uploaded at that point
<bluesabre> cleaned it up, no git/bzr files in the tarball
<Unit193> Stilly bluesabre, I meant upload.  I'm actually part of the maintainers, but for the Debian side of things not upstream.
<Unit193> I see https://launchpad.net/gtk-theme-config/trunk/+addrelease now, but as I don't want to break it I'm ducking and running.
<bluesabre> you'll want my patches too maybe http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/utopic/gtk-theme-config/utopic/files/head:/debian/patches/
 * bluesabre shuts up
<bluesabre> :D
 * Unit193 isn't upstream either. :P
<Unit193> OK, so gmusicbrowser updated(ish), xfpm fixed, and looks like everything else is done.
<bluesabre> productive day
<elfy> will be missing from meeting - can someone #info the Beta results please
<elfy> 32 bit 7 testers (3 from team)/64 bit 5 testers (4 from team)
<elfy> 32 bit 19 tests run/64 bit 17 tests run
<elfy> thanks
<Luyin> hi guys! today at 10 utc is community meeting, right?
<slickymasterWork> yes Luyin
<slickymasterWork> but it's not a community meeting, it's the Xubuntu Team meeting
<Luyin> hey slickymasterWork, thanks. so I'd really like to attend, but I've got the household to do. But I'll linger around, so I can read later what's been going on.
<slickymasterWork> np Luyin, you can always get a hold of the meeting minutes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive or a meeting summary at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<slickymasterWork> done brainwash
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: thanks :)
<slickymasterWork> np
<knome> slickymasterWork, it *is* calle the "xubuntu community meeting"
<knome> *called
<knome> because we do welcome all community, and only votes are restricted to teams
<knome> ...*team
 * slickymasterWork stands corrected
<slickymasterWork> morning knome 
<knome> hey slickymasterWork 
<bluesabre> morning folks
<ochosi> hey everyone!
<ochosi> sorry, i only have about 20mins now, so let's make it quick
<ochosi> !team | hey everyone, meeting-time!
<ubottu> hey everyone, meeting-time!: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Sep  9 10:00:59 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> o/
<ochosi> (sorry for being a bit rushy, unexpected time pressure and meetings... :/ )
<ochosi> #topic Agenda
<bluesabre> happens
<ochosi> #subtopic Review artwork for UIF
<ochosi> i guess from my pov, we're pretty clear on this
<bluesabre> yeah, just waiting on knome for the wp... haven't had any issues with the gtk or icon theme
<ochosi> so the question is more, are you missing anything in utopic? (apart from the HUGE elephant in the room, right knome? :D)
<bluesabre> I'll poke satya to see if he has anything in the pipe
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> i might do another release for the icons
<ochosi> there's not really much that changed there
<bluesabre> go ahead, I'll upload tonight
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> hmm, i might need until tomorrow if that's still ok
<ochosi> but i can also try tonight
<bluesabre> that's ok too
<ochosi> the themes haven't had any changes since we last uploaded them
<ochosi> so i think that's good
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> plymouth and greeter need the wall
<ochosi> alrighty
<ochosi> if anything comes up wrt missing or buggy artwork, lemme know!
<bluesabre> sure thing
<ochosi> hah, just noticed i screwed up the topics/subtopics structure a bit with adding agenda there :)
<ochosi> sorry about that
<ochosi> #topic Open action items
<ochosi> slickymasterWork, knome: either of you about? what's the status of pkexec and docs?
<slickymasterWork> pkexec policy files are included in the documentation in favor of gksu
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: feel free to mark as "DONE" then ;)
 * slickymasterWork was waiting for team updates to #info on it
<ochosi> right, can also do that, but since it's there as an action item, go ahead
<slickymasterWork> it's already marked as DONE in both the blueprint and trello
<ochosi> #done slickymaster and knome will work on docs for pkexec
<slickymasterWork> #info pkexec policy files are included in the documentation in favor of gksu
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<ochosi> one is enough ;)
<bluesabre> #done call for package translations sent to mailing lists https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-September/010404.html
<slickymasterWork> yeah, you beat me to it
<ochosi> pleia2, knome: that one's still in progress, right? marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
<slickymasterWork> #info the "Network printing" section of the documentation is updated
<slickymasterWork> #info the "Scanning" section of the documentation is updated
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: let's put that in team updates pls
<slickymasterWork> #undo
<ochosi> i'm only going over the open action items from the last meeting
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<slickymasterWork> thanks ochosi 
<ochosi> but anyway, i'm pretty sure that the marketing stuff is still WIP so i'll keep it
<ochosi> #action marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
<meetingology> ACTION: marketing team to support xfce's bug bounty programme by informing people on website and social media
<bluesabre> #info elfy set up a discussion page for QA incentives http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive
<ochosi> bluesabre: let's also put that in team updates ;)
<ochosi> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<ochosi> #topic Team updates
<ochosi> ok, shoot :)
<bluesabre> that was an action item ;)
<bluesabre> #info elfy set up a discussion page for QA incentives http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, but you didn't #done it
<knome> ochosi, yep, but getting there (re: marketing team)
<bluesabre> #info Beta Test results: 32 bit 7 testers (3 from team)/64 bit 5 testers (4 from team), 32 bit 19 tests run/64 bit 17 tests run
<slickymasterWork> #info the "Network printing" section of the documentation is updated
<slickymasterWork> #info the "Scanning" section of the documentation is updated
<bluesabre> #info xubuntu-default-settings discussed with team, agreed upon (and not changing any further)
<ochosi> #chair bluesabre 
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre ochosi
<ochosi> #chair knome 
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi
<ochosi> i'm really sorry that i have to run, but it's about catching a train...
<lderan> hello all
<bluesabre> #info UI Freeze is Thursday, afterwards exception paperwork will need to be filed for any other UI changes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze
<ochosi> bluesabre: mind to chair for me?
<bluesabre> suppose that I can
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> ttyl
<slickymasterWork> have fun ochosi 
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<bluesabre> anybody else with team updates to announce?
<bluesabre> also, hey lderan :)
<lderan> nope
<slickymasterWork> hey lderan 
<bluesabre> ah, announcements is next
<bluesabre> #undo
<meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
<bluesabre> #topic Announcements
<bluesabre> #info UI Freeze is Thursday, afterwards exception paperwork will need to be filed for any other UI changes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze
<bluesabre> (these two are so similar)
<bluesabre> #info We are still seeking translators for the documentation and packages
<bluesabre> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-September/010396.html
<bluesabre> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-September/010404.html
<bluesabre> ... anything else?
<bluesabre> knome?
<knome> no
<bluesabre> !topic Discussion
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> having issues this morning :)
<bluesabre> #subtopic Default configuration
<bluesabre> Are we good here, any other changes need tweaked or reverted?
<bluesabre> or added
<bluesabre> probably not enough people here this morning to discuss
<bluesabre> #subtopic QA Incentives
<bluesabre> http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive 
<bluesabre> This looks really good to me
<bluesabre> knome: any actionable items from this, or should it be discussed later?
<bluesabre> #nick team
<bluesabre> #action team to further discuss the QA Incentive program
<meetingology> ACTION: team to further discuss the QA Incentive program
<bluesabre> anything else for discussion?
<bluesabre> I'll leave it open for a few minutes in case somebody pops in
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule Next Meeting
<bluesabre> Looks like Unit193 is up next
<bluesabre> #action Unit193 to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> that's all folks
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Sep  9 10:38:36 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-09-09-10.00.moin.txt
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll let you handle the minutes when you're around
<knome> boo!
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> now you talk
<bluesabre> :P
<lderan> :P
 * bluesabre goes back to bed
<knome> sleep tight
<elfy> can someone see if they get the same behaviour at the iso tracker as me - filtering products makes no difference and going to a test you can't minimise the testcase 
<elfy> thanks - seems rather broken to me 
<Unit193> elfy: Confirmed on both.
<Unit193> As an additional treat, I can't login. >_<
<Unit193> Tried a few more times, it's finally in.
<Unit193> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+team+meeting&iso=20140923T15&p1=415&am=30 That look good for anyone else?  ochosi, bluesabre?
<ochosi> hey folks
<ochosi> sorry again about before
<Unit193> Howdy.
<ochosi> Unit193: meeting date-time looks good to me
<slickymasterWork> Unit193: sort of, it will depend on whether I have my son with me that day. If yes I'll be in and out since it will be his dinner time
<slickymasterWork> but we will see
<Unit193> slickymasterWork: Later better?
<Unit193> elfy: Same, time work better for you too?  Later?
<slickymasterWork> yeah, one hour later would be good
<ochosi> minutes are up, you can add your meeting time anytime now Unit193 ;)
<Unit193> ochosi: Just working out what time is best for people, pointless having a meeting nobody can attned (well.. Does make it shorter.  On second thought! ;) )
<ochosi> haha, well that wasn't my intention
<ochosi> even if today turned out a bit like that
<Unit193> I could be real nice and put it at 01:00:00 UTC. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: => lxpanel 0.7.1 won't need the menucache dep, that's a mistake in the .pc file.
<elfy> Unit193: looks good to me time wise
<ochosi> Unit193: wait, is lxpanel 0.7 coming to 14.10 after all?
<Unit193> ochosi: Not likely.
<Unit193> elfy: Great, sounds good then.
<elfy> no meeting next week then
<elfy> though a meeting just as we start the final beta sounds usefulish
<Unit193> Did to me.
<ochosi> elfy: the QA incentive page looks really nice! added a few small comments to it
<elfy> ochosi: thanks
<Unit193> http://goo.gl/9jfC9D set.
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-September/010414.html too.
<ochosi> nice, thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> Yep, though I don't see the items on the current agenda being carried forward, did I miss it?
<ochosi> hmm, maybe i haven't added them yet
<Unit193> xfce-4.12 was for xfce components only, right?
<ochosi> guess you better ask bluesabre about that, he drafted a pad about how our PPAs are supposed to be used
<Unit193> Alrighty.
<ochosi> brrr, gotta run again
<ochosi> if you have time to add the carried-forward items, that'd be great
<ochosi> otherwise i'll try to get to it later tonight
<pleia2> tsk, I was all excited about a meeting time I could attend, but I'll be at PuppetConf that day :)
<Unit193> Heh, oh well.  Figured it'd even be better for you.
<elfy> wait pleia2 - I'll make sure to ask you when you're about :p
<pleia2> I can probably find a corner to hide in to go to the meeting, I'm not boothing and my talk isn't until later in the day
<Unit193> Or, do it when nobody is around, shortest meeting ever. :P
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> As long as there's items on the agenda, I don't mind.
<pleia2> hopefully by then I'll have stopped arguing with knome about the title for the Donate page so we can promote the bounty program :)
<elfy> Unit193: there will be 
<Unit193> Oh dear.
<elfy> the qa thing for one
<elfy> beta that week
<elfy> making sure we get a better response to testing
<pleia2> fortunately puppetconf is local, so I won't be on the road and can pitch in with b2 testing, I promise :)
<elfy> my mail to team wasn't aimed at anyone specifically :)
<pleia2> I know, but you are right
<pleia2> so I shall participate
<Unit193> I see my name in the "To:" field, thus it's aimed at me and I should also do better, I shall as well.
<pleia2> has lightdm stopped exploding yet?
<elfy> xubuntu-team doesn't have a way for me to mail it pleia2 :)
<Unit193> Seems to be a little specific, hasn't hit me yet.
<elfy> kind of
<pleia2> tsk
<Unit193> But seems to keep hitting elfy one way or another, I was only affected when they broke ubuntu-drivers-common.
<elfy> Unit193: well if you've killed the gmail address you won't get it - though I've only had one bounce notification
<elfy> lightdm 
<elfy> the position is this
<elfy> hardware - shouldn't be an issue
<elfy> vmware - shouldn't be an issue
<Unit193> elfy: Sorry, I meant the lightdm problem.
<elfy> vbox - vboxvideo doesn't get loaded - that is an issue :p
<elfy> so anyone trying at the moment to use vbox - <host>F1 - startx and you can do install tests
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> thanks
<elfy> I'm not going to be taking any notice of livesession fails if they're from a vbox report
<elfy> I think that sums the situation up :)
<Unit193> elfy: Hrm, new installs/ubiquity related only?  As in, my fully updated VM shouldn't be hitting it right?
<elfy> Unit193:nope - installs work - it's just live stuff afaik
<Unit193> That'd explain why I never saw it.
<elfy> :)
<elfy> should mail the list I guess
<Unit193> Upgrade+mini installs.
<elfy> framebuffer devices lacking in live session in fact https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1365336/comments/56
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1365336 in fglrx-installer-updates (Ubuntu) "Lightdm update=No desktop" [Critical,In progress]
<pleia2> elfy: thank you :)
<elfy> not sure what for, but you're welcome :)
<pleia2> mail to list
<elfy> aah right 
<Unit193> Noskcaj: In case you didn't see, I updated gmusicbrowser in Debian's vcs.
<Noskcaj> ty
<Noskcaj> I was going to, but the script broke for me, then i had school
<Unit193> Script?
<Noskcaj> repack script
<Unit193> Worked like a charm.
<Unit193> It was a pretty simple update once you get past the patch refreshing anyway, just need ochosi to apply one upstream.
<ochosi> Unit193: hmm, but i'm not really upstream for gmb
<Unit193> But, but, but... It says so. :(
<ochosi> where?
<Unit193> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-multimedia/gmusicbrowser.git/tree/debian/copyright
<ochosi> that is both weird and wrong :)
<ochosi> i was only a contributor, i never had push-rights upstream
<Unit193> Bleh...  Well I'm not a maintainer/uploader, I don't have to fix it. :--D
<brainwash> interesting report -> bug 1367381
<ubottu> bug 1367381 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar fails to show previews for media (jpg, png, pdf, etc) file icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1367381
<brainwash> "Please check, confirm and fix this problem at the earliest as this is rendering the system practically useless."
<ochosi> wow, someone is heavily relying on thumbnails there :)
<brainwash> and I have no idea how to help him :/
<brainwash> tumbler is a mysterious tool
<bluesabre> Unit193: will try to make it
<Unit193> bluesabre: Great.  Generally better time for you too?
<bluesabre> pretty much no, but since that is pre-milestone, I'll work something out :)
<bluesabre> xfce-4.12 ppa seems like it should be xfce stuff only
<Unit193> Bummer.
<Unit193> OK, that's fine then.
<writing_novel> I'd still like to get a standard XFCE + Ubuntu interface, as I'd prefer that to GNOME "classic mode"
<pleia2> writing_novel: we'd still like for you to ask support questions in #xubuntu and not the devel channel :)
<writing_novel> It is NOT a support question I found out. They told me that since nothing was "broken" per se, that the XFCE interface having this whisker thing and looking unlike what everyone knows regular XFCE looks like, that its a design issue and belongs here.
<pleia2> then you should probably say so
<pleia2> we don't change things just because someone comes in here and tells us what they like
<writing_novel> What I was expecting when installed Xubuntu was Ubuntu plus XFCE (looking like what XFCE does) and it is not it some transmogrified variation.
<pleia2> that's because you installed Xubuntu
<pleia2> if you want Ubuntu + Xfce, then install Ubuntu and add the Xfce package
<writing_novel> But Xubuntu says it is Ubuntu + XFCE
<writing_novel> it is not
<writing_novel> wait a second
<pleia2> where does it say that?
<writing_novel> hang on a second
<writing_novel> I read on the Ubuntu website (I think) that Xubuntu is Ubuntu with XFCE
<writing_novel> let me find the page, hang on
<pleia2> where?
<writing_novel> hang on, I'll get the link for you.
<pleia2> Xubuntu comes with Xfce, but I'm not aware of anything that says that it's Ubuntu with pure Xfce
<pleia2> just like all the flavors, it's customized with backgrounds, themes, icon sets, default applications, etc as its own distribution that uses Xfce
<writing_novel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFlavors
<writing_novel> Xubuntu
<writing_novel> Xubuntu provides a light, stable and configurable desktop environment with conservative workflows. Xubuntu uses Xfce as the desktop environment. 
<writing_novel> that is where it says it comes with XFCE
<pleia2> yes, it uses Xfce
<writing_novel> and it's nothing like XFCE
<writing_novel> XFCE looks entirely different
<Unit193> Still, that's configuration preferences, you can change it how you like.  You can also just install the xfce4 package on a mini install, as has been pointed out repeatedly.
<pleia2> I don't understand
<pleia2> I give up :)
<writing_novel> My point is that nowhere does it say its a different transmogrified variation
<writing_novel> it says its XFCE
<writing_novel> its not XFCE
<Unit193> writing_novel: Xubuntu uses Xfce, that's exactly what it says on the tin and it's quite accurate.
<pleia2> Unit193: yeah, I've told them this twice already, they don't seem to understand
<writing_novel> XFCE does not look that way
<Unit193> Yes, yes it does.
<writing_novel> XFCE has a bottom row with a task bar like a MacOS
<writing_novel> and has a drop down menue like GNOME 2
<writing_novel> That is the XFCE I am interested in
<Unit193> Xfce can be configured, if you want something that can't maybe you're looking for Gnome?
<Unit193> writing_novel: So configure it!
<writing_novel> I don't understand, I install Debian with XFCE and it needs no configuration it looks like any other Linux w/XFCE (Fedora with XFCE looks just like debian), why is your different?
<writing_novel> your=yours
<writing_novel> it is misconfigured out of the box you mean?
<writing_novel> It does not look like XFCE
<writing_novel> its different
<brainwash> talking to you is like talking to a wall
<Unit193> brainwash: A wall doesn't talk back.
<writing_novel> Because EVERY other XFCE distro looks the same but yours
<writing_novel> and you say yours is XFCE!
<writing_novel> its crazy talk
<writing_novel> by configure you mean install something else
<brainwash> can no one kick/ban him?
<writing_novel> thats a misrepresentation!
<Unit193> writing_novel: That's also not correct.
<pleia2> writing_novel: please stop
<writing_novel> kick me? for what? for pointing out the distro is not what it says it is?
<writing_novel> how mean of you!
<writing_novel> I am pointing out a technical problem!
<brainwash> there is none
<writing_novel> sure there is
<writing_novel> it is not configured right as Unit193 is pointout
<brainwash> but well, feel free to file a bug report on launchpad
<pleia2> thanks
<Unit193> Sure.
<brainwash> he really tried to write a novel in this channel
<pleia2> lol
<bluesabre> so, how are things everybody :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: can we point people to https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/ubuntu/lp1320560 so they can test it?
<bluesabre> brainwash: sure thing
<bluesabre> I'll get trusty pkgs in there (hopefully) tonight
<brainwash> ok
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-10
<Noskcaj-school> Just a quick "survey", is xubuntu still ok for upower 0.99 this cycle? ubuntu's stuff finally supports it, so darkxst and i have a giant FFe to make
<Noskcaj-school> bluesabre, ochosi ^
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: Yeah, if everything can support it with minor changes or just a rebuild, we can probably proceed with it.
<bluesabre> ochosi: do you agree?
<Unit193> I believe Debian had only partial support in one of the packages, at least saw a bug about it.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Pretty much all is sorted in debian already
<Noskcaj> it should be just rebuilds
<elfy> I really should write stuff down or remember it - but as I didn't and don't - how do I apply this patch to test it xfce 11134
<ubottu> xfce bug 11134 in General "Desktop Settings Infobar gives move option when unavailable" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11134
<elfy> hi Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> hey elfy 
<Noskcaj> download the source, copy patch in, build it, install, test
<Noskcaj> 5 minutes work
<elfy> right 
<elfy> you'd make an awesome teacher
<Noskcaj> ha
<Noskcaj> bzr branch lp:ubuntu/xfdesktop4
<Noskcaj> copy the patch to xfdesktop4/debian/patches/thingy.patch
<elfy> so why can't you just patch the installed version
<Noskcaj> Add thingy.patch to xfdesktop4/debian/patches/series
<Noskcaj> elfy, because compilers
<elfy> nvm then Noskcaj - I'm not going to doing all that 
<Noskcaj> then run "quilt push" "bzr add" "bzr-buildpackage"
<Noskcaj> then install your new binary
<Noskcaj> easy
<Noskcaj> I can make it if you need, then you just add ppa:noskcaj/staging
<Unit193> Erm, why all that?  Just apt-get source it and drop the patch in.
<Noskcaj> Unit193, In case he was on !utopic
<Noskcaj> and it's not that much of a difference in workload, really
<Unit193> Sure, no quilt or bzr* commands.  Anywho, it's moot either way.
<elfy> very moot 
 * Unit193 moos at elfy.
<elfy> why can't I patch < foo.patch
<Noskcaj> *moots
<Unit193> elfy: You could do that too, yep.
<Unit193> sudo apt-get build-dep xfdesktop4 && apt-get source xfdesktop4   to get all the build deps and source.
<Unit193> elfy: Either of us could pop it into a package, or if you wait until tomorrow I can do the entire test.
<elfy> \o/ lightdm .9 ->"Don't check the logind CanGraphical seat property ..."
<Unit193> \o/
<elfy> Unit193: it's morning so I'm a bit meh - and that was much too much writing for me to find the requisite amount of care :p
<elfy> hopefully todays image will in fact boot :)
<elfy> properly
<ochosi> bluesabre, Noskcaj: well frankly it doesn't make me very happy. upower0.99 is fairly different (even if there are more features partly) and is largely untested within xfce, so it's quite risky â especially because I have no idea whether we can get any resulting bugs fixed in time for the release
<Noskcaj> ochosi, The downside is it means ubuntu-gnome is stuck with a release from the start of last year
<Noskcaj> and some stuff from earlier
<Noskcaj> but if you are worried about it, say so and the FFe won't go through
<ochosi> well yeah, i am slightly worried, i haven't given any of the xfce components in question any testing with upower0.99
<ochosi> and i do expect some oddities
<ochosi> those that tested that combination were mostly on other distros
<ochosi> have you tested any of it?
<ochosi> if we get enough testing before the FFe goes through, i'd probably be fine with it though
<ochosi> (but i'm not so optimistic about that going down)
<ochosi> bbabl
<Noskcaj> ochosi, i'm setting up a complete testing PPA, so (elfy) would we be able to get some testing on that?
<elfy> ha
<elfy> you can set it up - I can ask people to test it - but don't count on any getting done
<Noskcaj> ok
<elfy> Noskcaj: hah - I knew it - tried all that ^^ bzr: ERROR: The build failed.
<elfy> bbl
<Noskcaj> pastebin the log?
<bluesabre> ochosi: sure would be cool if some super minor issue (typo, spacing, etc) was found and fixed to make the git revision +1 so this builds https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+recipe/xfpm-daily
<bluesabre> >.>
<ochosi> bluesabre: i can look into that
<ochosi> basically need to scan the buildlogs?
<bluesabre> it will build on next git change
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> now i get what you mean
<bluesabre> so if something changes in xfpm, we're good to go ;)
<ochosi> can't you just manually schedule a rebuild?
<bluesabre> (unless you break xfpm)
<bluesabre> the version numbers fail
<ochosi> we're not planning to, no :)
<ochosi> oh, hmpf
<ochosi> i see
<ochosi> will see whether i find something minor
<bluesabre> translation maybe?
<ochosi> today in the afternoon i might have an hour or two for FOSS
<ochosi> that'd be ideal
<ochosi> i've been planning to send a call for translations out today anyway
<bluesabre> I usually cheat and add/remove/edit TODO
<ochosi> but i can ask some italians to complete the translation directly
<bluesabre> there you go
<bluesabre> they're a friendly group (the g+ folks)
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> ok, asked and already got a confirmation that it'll be done today :)
<bluesabre> awesome
<bluesabre> so is xfpm done then?
<ochosi> pretty much
<ochosi> note: there'll always be bugs :)
<ochosi> but we wanna do a release at some point
<ochosi> and now that we also support lxpanel 0.7 i think it's time
<bluesabre> sweet
<bluesabre> probably a good time for then for a translations call
<bluesabre> though the xfce projects are really good about getting translated without poking people
<bluesabre> its that because of something with transifex that notifies the translators?
<ochosi> i guess
<ochosi> but xfce has had a strong community of translators for a long time
<bluesabre> I see
<ochosi> so even before the move to transifex.com translations were flowing in pretty constantly
<ochosi> (at least from what i remember)
<ochosi> meeting-time, bbiab
<ochosi> bluesabre: btw, one note: i've tested the desktop icon sizes a bit more over the last two weeks (since we first had that discussion), and i'd like us to go for 48px/64px (icon/tooltip)
<ochosi> mostly 48px isn't so much bigger, it crops the strings less and it's consistent with thunar
<brainwash> back to 48px, hooray
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> well, a bit of back and forth is okay to test things out imo
<ochosi> it also means that the tooltip isn't so huge
<ochosi> i mean in comparison to the icon
<bluesabre> ok, poke the others and get their thoughts
<ochosi> you mean everyone in !team? :)
<bluesabre> I'm also in favor
<brainwash> still wondering, why we've changed it from 48 to 32 in the first place
<bluesabre> we're flexible
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: reminder: icon-theme
<bluesabre> knome: reminder: wallpaper
<bluesabre> As usual, I'll take care of these uploads this evening :)
<ochosi> brainwash, bluesabre: the switch to 32px was made because there was a MR by Unit193 :)
<ochosi> and i felt we could try it out
<ochosi> bluesabre: translations have already been added in transifex for xfpm, so i guess they'll land in the next hours
<brainwash> still strange, we've just changed them to 48px in trusty, even upstream :D
<brainwash> sneaky MR
<elfy> woohoo images boot in vm now 
<elfy> pleia2: ^^ 
<bluesabre> yay1
<elfy> more than 1 :p
<bluesabre> yay1+
<elfy> not looking for anymore booting issues till 15.04 
 * bluesabre notes this
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> good good
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll do another update of the icon-theme this afternoon
<ochosi> so tonight you'll have it ready
<bluesabre> ochosi: great
<ochosi> don't think there'll be anything to do for themes
<bluesabre> elfy: have an opinion on desktop icon size 32 -> 48?
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, the commit in xfpm has already landed from transifex, so that build should work now
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<elfy> bluesabre: well - my opinion is that *anything* bigger than 22px is wrong :)
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, I'll poke the builders
<elfy> so not the best person to ask :)
<bluesabre> elfy: 22px for desktop icons it is
<bluesabre> :P
<elfy> works for me :)
<ochosi> hehe
<bluesabre> [fileman icon]
<bluesabre> Fi...
<ochosi> elfy doesn't seem to have a hidpi screen :>
<knome> bluesabre, yeah yeah...
<elfy> ochosi: lol
<ochosi> bluesabre: what's your take on upower0.99 btw?
<bluesabre> well, xfce4.12 is supposed to freeze right about now
<ochosi> freeze?
<bluesabre> so, finding upower issues now would be very beneficial for upstream
<bluesabre> "freeze"ish
<ochosi> right
<bluesabre> the others were talking about it a few weeks back
<ochosi> yeah, but the question is what do we do if things break
<ochosi> we're quite late in the cycle
<elfy> so - would it not be better to be finding them at the beginning of the next cycle so there's months rather than weeks to deal with it?
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, that's the point i'm implicitely making (also said that to Noskcaj)
<bluesabre> right
<elfy> I'm blunter :)
<bluesabre> but I think there are not very many packages affected by it, but I'm not going to make the call on my own
<ochosi> i mean there was all cycle for the transition to be done and while i understand that it might be nice for ubuntu-gnome to get 3.12, i'm not 100% willing to take the risk
<bluesabre> we can almost guarantee that package testing will be less than desirable
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i was wanting to ask you for the same reason ;)
<elfy> should be perhaps a release team decision
<ochosi> yup, here we are :)
<elfy> oh - I'd not noticed :D
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> so yeah, *theoretically* everything should work in xfce
<ochosi> the affected components are (at least) xfpm, xfce4-settings and xfce4-session
<bluesabre> I'm willing to work towards any fixes, wife is working weekends through the next release
<elfy> I'm certainly not at all enamoured with the idea of chucking something that could break things - given that we are getting very little in the way of testing
<ochosi> the session-support is still very fresh btw
<ochosi> but it's in git master
<bluesabre> we could start with tossing it into -staging or using Noskcaj's ppa
<bluesabre> get a larger amount of -team to just install it and see what breakages we may find
<ochosi> yup, that'd be fine with me
 * bluesabre also thinks that all of -team should be on utopic now if they are not already
<elfy> I've not got an issue with doing that - if we can get people to test it, but then that's necessarily going to drop it even further into the future 
<ochosi> one thing though, those would have to be hardware installs
<ochosi> VM doesn't help with upower at all
<ochosi> (i mean it helps a bit, but not that much)
<elfy> agreed
<bluesabre> s/install/install on their normal machines
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, that means putting it on hold
<elfy> I've got to go again now - bbl 
<ochosi> sure, ttyl elfy 
<elfy> ochosi: yea
<bluesabre> heading out too... I'll follow up on backlog when I get back.
<elfy> anyway - if we decide todayish - I'm -1 to that this late unless we get cast iron guarantees on fixes being able to land
<ochosi> haha, well i won't continue the discussion alone :D
<elfy> lol
<ochosi> and anyway, it's about lunchtime, so i don't mind if we continue this later
<elfy> I can be about later tonight - later elfy time I mean - rather than wandering off early evening
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: who all would be affected? is upower only used by gtk desktops?
<ochosi> elfy: well fixes being able to land is one thing, we can't get guarantees on fixes being written though i guess
<ochosi> i think there's a big bugreport that lists all components
<ochosi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upower/+bug/1330037
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1330037 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "upower 0.99 transition" [Undecided,In progress]
<bluesabre> also, has it landed in debian yet? I know that they were working towards that
<ochosi> yeah, it should land in the next debian
<ochosi> (afaik)
<bluesabre> nice
<ochosi> so all desktops are affected, incl unity, kde, gnome-variants and xfce
<bluesabre> that affects almost everybody
<ochosi> heck, even razorqt
<bluesabre> this does not seem like a good idea...
<bluesabre> and not one that we can make on our own
<ochosi> since it affects xfpm, it also affects lxde
<bluesabre> (and that we better not be left out of either)
<ochosi> yeah, we can only chip in our 2cents
<ochosi> imo we should sit down tonight and write up a common release-team statement, explaining why we're -1 on this
<ochosi> (if we are, but as we're all rather on the sceptical side...)
<bluesabre> it only affects a few xfce components, so its not quite as dangerous for us
<bluesabre> but it looks like the gnome packages aren't even completely patched yet
<ochosi> ehem...
 * ochosi clears throught
<ochosi> session and powerman and settings are quite central components
<bluesabre> and other affected desktops have not touched
<ochosi> so while they aren't many...
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> they are a big deal
<ochosi> tbh i haven't worked on upower0.99 personally
<ochosi> eric has handled all of that
<ochosi> and he has done so in all the aforementioned components
<ochosi> so maybe we should interview him on this issue
<bluesabre> this affects too many desktop this late in the cycle, and the fixes aren't around for several desktops, I doubt the request would be granted
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> yeah, i think ubuntu-gnome is mostly pushing this forward (otherwise no 3.12)
<bluesabre> anyhoo, dragging behind here, gotta run
<ochosi> yup, me too
<ochosi> hf and ttyl
<pleia2> elfy: yay re: booting in vm
<bluesabre> but yeah, confirm with eric what testing may have been done, and let's do a spot check at least on hw, if we're remotely interested
<slickymasterWork> !team | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2243667
<slickymasterWork> sutpid bot
<knome> slickymasterWork, lol
<slickymasterWork> knome: :)
 * knome just finished the evening work session
<slickymasterWork> knome do you think you'll have some time this weekend so we can start on the docs networking section for the new NetworkManager?
<knome> probably.. or you could file a bug about it and jack might fix it before we get to it
<slickymasterWork> lol, that's an idea
<slickymasterWork> did you get to see the forum thread, knome?
<knome> yep, looked at it
<slickymasterWork> it's nice
<knome> yep
<brainwash> ochosi: can lls 1.4 be used in trusty? 
<brainwash> someone is asking for a fully translated lls http://forum.ubuntuusers.de/topic/light-locker-einstellungen-auf-deutsch/
<slickymasterWork> knome, what exactly isn't up to date in the docs, wrt new NetworkManager?
<knome> somebody said it's going to change
<knome> can't remember who, but i can try to dig it up tomorrow
<slickymasterWork> aren't we going to ship the same nm-applet?
<ochosi> knome: i think that was Unit193 
<knome> iirc, there was going to be a new version or sth
<knome> who knows!
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> and who, thne, added that item to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-docs?
<slickymasterWork> s/thne/then
<ochosi> brainwash: theoretically it should work even with xfpm <1.3, so also in trusty (but i haven' tested)
<slickymasterWork> I just have been through today's daily, and as far as I can tell, nothing there is different from what is present in the networking section of the documentation
<slickymasterWork> I mean the nm-applet
<slickymasterWork> Unit193, care to enlighten me on this, pretty please ^^^ 
<slickymasterWork> ochosi, the reason there hasn't been no progress on http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=xfpm-docs:start is because I'm in a fight with myself about installing xfce4-power-manager 1.3.2-0ubuntu2 in my main computer :P
<slickymasterWork> I don't feel like wrecking it, but it's the only choice I have to do it on real hardware
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: if you need screenshots for the tabs, i can do them for you
<ochosi> i guess you only need 1.3.2 for that
<ochosi> anyway, i don't think you'd have any regressions with it (and you can easily go back to 1.2.0 with apt)
<ochosi> it's not like 1.4 will be a rewrite or something, we mostly fixed bugs and introduced a few features
<ochosi> so: "installing 1.3.2 != wrecking it" :)
<elfy> ochosi: so cur5rent plan with upower is to check with Eric and then decide? 
<ochosi> elfy: i talked to him a few minutes ago
<ochosi> he said that the list in the bugreport isn't complete (weather-plugin was missing)
<slickymasterWork> that would help ochosi. you can put them under the xfpm-docs namesapce
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: ok, i'll try to get to it tomorrow
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: in case i forget, please remind me
<elfy> ochosi: yea - saw that one get added to the bug minutes ago
<ochosi> elfy: so opensuse seems to be using upower0.99 and logind and things work (that's a good sign), but frankly...
<slickymasterWork> well, if you guarantee me that ochosi, then I'll go ahead and install 1.3.2
<ochosi> elfy: i'm still -1 on the whole transition. it's just very late and we still have to be "lucky" not to get any regressions from it
<slickymasterWork> so, nevermind those screenshots
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: is 90% good enough for you? :)
<elfy> ochosi: nothing's changed my mind 
<slickymasterWork> I'll take your 90% ochosi  ;)
<ochosi> elfy: yeah, i guess we're on the same page. let's wait and see what bluesabre has to say about it
<elfy> ochosi:  okey doke
<brainwash> it's 14.10, so just get the new stuff in :)
<elfy> there's a patch for xfce 11134 - I've no idea what to do with it - if someone else can look that'd be good
<ubottu> xfce bug 11134 in General "Desktop Settings Infobar gives move option when unavailable" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11134
<slickymasterWork> gotta run guys ->
<brainwash> elfy: https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-git
<brainwash> oh wait, he didn't commit it yet
<Pwnna> can anyone confirm https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/blueman/+bug/1304599 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/libxfce4ui/+bug/1303404
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1304599 in blueman (Ubuntu) "bluetooth indicator is always white regardless if bluetooth is on or off" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1303404 in libxfce4ui "Hotkeys with <Super> modifier overriding each other" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Pwnna> and that lightlocker bug.. it is still present.. sometimes
<Pwnna> i don't know how to reproduce it yet, but i'm getting a locked screen sometimes... again
<Pwnna> is it possible to replace the xfce stuff like libxfce4ui with my own built version easily?
<Pwnna> like a symlink away?
<skellat> brainwash: As to LP Bug 1367381, this really does not amuse me: http://askubuntu.com/questions/522274/thunar-does-not-show-preview-icons-for-media-files 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1367381 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Thunar fails to show previews for media (jpg, png, pdf, etc) file icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1367381
<skellat> brainwash: I've reported the bugger to get that mess closed over on AskUbuntu
<brainwash> skellat: which mess?
<skellat> brainwash: The user tried to file the same bugreport as an open question on AskUbuntu
<skellat> And then posted there that he rebooted and the problem went away
<brainwash> yeah, some people just cross post stuff on the interwebs
<Unit193> slickymaster: That was "if NM .10 lands, nm-tool disappears and there's another tool for that now"
<slickymaster> Unit193, and most probably we don't have a way to know for sure when will NM .10 land, right?
<slickymaster> so I'm inclined to remove that item from the -docs blueprint
<slickymaster> and from trello
<Unit193> Considering it hasn't yet, yeah I think it won't land this cycle.
<slickymaster> thanks for the heads up Unit193 
<Unit193> Eh, maybe it'll be useful next cycle.
<slickymaster> I'll postponed the item in both, LP and Trello
<Unit193> Validating sv fails.
<knome> swedish?
<knome> slovakian?
<Unit193> Swedish
<knome> aha
<knome> i will refrain from telling stupid jokes about swedish people
<knome> will you fix it? :P
<Noskcaj> ppa:noskcaj/upower now has all the xfce stuff, if someone wants to test it
<Noskcaj> (Except weather-plugin, since we don't have upower enabled for it)
<brainwash> doesn't only the power manager use upower to do stuff?
<brainwash> weather-plugin?!
<Noskcaj> settings and systemload too
<Noskcaj> yeah, that's a thing
<brainwash> oh, this machine here does not even have upower installed :)
<brainwash> what's the big deal anyway?
<Noskcaj> pretty much upower changed a bunch of API stuff end of last year (Dropped suspend stuff, plus other things), gnome now needs it, and debian has upower 0.99.1 currently
<Noskcaj> And ubuntu-gnome would rather not have stuff from early 2013
<Unit193> What's the point anywho?  They can't have the latest Gnome without a newer systemd, IIRC.
<Noskcaj> because a heap of core stuff is stuck on <<3.10
<brainwash> debian already has it, so there shouldn't be any problem to get it working in ubuntu, or?
<brainwash> or is it just too late for changes like this?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, ubuntu-only packages, plus unity forcing us to have a huge diff in gnome
<Noskcaj> we had to wait for some ubuntu-touch guys to patch things there, so it's really late
<Unit193> Ah cool, only bugs related are Debian 755234 and Debian 752438, neither of which we'd have to worry about.
<ubottu> Debian bug 755234 in xfce4-power-manager "incomplete support for upower0.99" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/755234
<ubottu> Debian bug 752438 in lightdm "lightdm: upower-1.0 transition" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/752438
<brainwash> makes me wonder, why can't they just delay the release of 14.10 a bit, to get xorg 1.16, upower and so on up and running
<brainwash> a release with only 9 months of support
<ochosi> bluesabre: i don't suppose you're around?
<Noskcaj-school> Since i forgot to mention it, upower is used by all desktops, lubuntu is fine with the transition, kubuntu is uneffected (Everything is run-time compatable with all versions), mate is fine (rebuild only), gnome needs work, but will work, and touch has been patched, but needs a refresh.
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-11
<bluesabre> ochosi: poke
<bluesabre> ask the fedora guys, just delay a single release...
<bluesabre> :)
<james0r> i'm noticing an issue with the new power manager plugin. It seems to just grab the app icon for power manager settings now, so doesn't seem to change to reflect my current battery level.
<james0r> of course clicking on the plugin will show my devices battery levels, but i imagine most users would like that visible on the notification panel.
<holstein> james0r: you dont get battery level in the tray?
<james0r> holstein, since yesterdays update with the staging repo no. here's a screenshot, i'm using numix-bevel iconset but it seems to affect all icons which seems right. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16833274/xfce4-power-manager-plugin.png
<holstein> james0r: "the staging repo" ?
<holstein> james0r: not with stock, though, correct?
<james0r> xubuntu-dev-xubuntu-staging-trusty.list
<james0r> right not with stock
<james0r> should issues regarding upgrades from this repo be brought up here or somewhere else?
<james0r> i wasn't sure.
<holstein> james0r: here is probably fine, actually.. 
<holstein> james0r: i was just making sure its not with stock..
<james0r> okay, gotcha.
<james0r> yeah i imagine that this behavior isn't desirable so i thought i'd mention it.
<Unit193> xfpm from there?  That's latest git, so yeah here is good to know.
<Unit193> ochosi, bluesabre ^
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<bluesabre> (he's one of the two main devs for that project)
<bluesabre> brainwash: trusty packages uploaded to https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/ubuntu/lp1320560
<bluesabre> as usual, they are not tested, but should work fine
<bluesabre> (still building too)
<RobertJDohnert> Whats up guys
<bluesabre> getting ready for bed :)
<Quantibility> Ok.. hopping to help u while helping me.. xubuntu wont start and for those that know me I wont do a reinstall. Im in recovery mode with net support. . Using my phone to talk to u guys... perhaps we can figure out why the last update do this.. I cant cut and past but i can photo the output
<Quantibility> After I figure out how to resize screen
<Unit193> bluesabre: http://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=gdmflexiserver only about 3 pages, if you're interested.
<bluesabre> Unit193: not particularly :)
<Quantibility> So yea after updating xubuntu wont start
<Unit193> As in, that'll help identify more in Ubuntu, but anywho.
<bluesabre> Quantibility: not around for much longer, but if you're having issues like that, #xubuntu is going to be the best
<bluesabre> this channel is mainly for developmenu, #xubuntu is support
<Quantibility> But u guys develop it. Updating isnt u guys? 
<bluesabre> we have a lot more people that are able to help with troubleshooting in #xubuntu ... updating may actually be from a component that isn't developed by our team, but by ubuntu
<Quantibility> Figured id give u a heads up on that then ill try the channel
<Quantibility> Thanks. Sorry for my ignorance
<Unit193> You also should say what version you're running.
<bluesabre> np, now you know :)
<Unit193> Quantibility: There is /var/log/apt/history.log to see what's been updated.
<bluesabre> Unit193: it does look like we have all xfce/xubuntu compenents included in our list for the gdmflexiserver thing, and I now have that link to help in the future, so thanks :)
<Unit193> Yey!
<bluesabre> ok, heading to bed now
<bluesabre> back in the morning
<bluesabre> hold down the fort ;)
<Unit193> Hopefully I'll be sleeping before morning. :P
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> update mangler \o/ http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-110914-071527.php
<Unit193> Haha, what's it doing, using the first desktop file it sees? :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> mangling I guess :D
<Unit193> Ubuntu nagger, it nags too much.  I disabled it.
<elfy> I don't - I don't actually use it often, but I do test the silly thing
<elfy> ochosi: so did we come to any real decision re upower - or are we still -2/+1 ish
<ochosi> elfy: not sure, bluesabre hasn't really taken a stance in the backlog and i wasn't up long enough to see him around
<ochosi> guess we can wait another two hours for him to wake up and then take a decision
<ochosi> james0r2: that would possibly be an issue with your icon-theme supplying the wrong icon
<ochosi> james0r2: you can check whether these icons are there: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/tree/data/icons/24x24
<Unit193> < bluesabre> this affects too many desktop this late in the cycle, and the fixes aren't around for several desktops, I doubt the request would be granted  and  < bluesabre> but yeah, confirm with eric what testing may have been done, and let's do a spot check at least on hw, if we're remotely interested  seem to be an indication however.
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, i remember that, but that was before i talked to eric
<ochosi> i've already given him an update on that front, and just wasn't sure 100% what his final stance was
<Unit193> Coolio.
<james0r2> ochosi, i verified my icon set does have those icons. it's possible that the recent update of my icon set (numix-bevel) broke it somehow, but i'm noticing the same with my other iconsets as well
<james0r2> ochosi, i believe they're in the right location as well, you can see them in this screenshot here --> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16833274/xfpm_icons.png
<ochosi> james0r2: ok, thanks, i'll take a look
<james0r> just noticed that suspend on lid close doesn't seem to be working anymore
<james0r> i checked the power management settings to see if something was changed but it's as i had it before, suspend is selected under "what to do when lid closed" and under "on battery.
<james0r> version 1.3.2+git-0~1591~ubuntu14.04.1
<bluesabre> ochosi/elfy: poke
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> and good morning to you
<bluesabre> good morning
<james0r> usually i see activity on my notebook's LEDs but i notice nothing on lid close now
<james0r> the screen is being blanked though
<bluesabre> as for my stance, I'm still kind of on the fence.  We have only a few directly affected packages, and it mainly seems to an API change. If we can't fix that (if even needed), I'd be shocked
<bluesabre> but if you guys are uneasy about it, I'll side with you.
<ochosi> bluesabre: the question is, is it really worth any potential hassle for us towards the end of a cycle
<ochosi> we have practicaly zero gain from this transition
<bluesabre> http://anzwix.com/a/UPower/ReleasedUPower0990
<knome> i guesss the gain is that we don't have to do the transition later
<ochosi> but yeah, as far as i can see it's api changes and the transition to logind handling suspend and hibernate (which we already had to deal with)
<knome> doing it in the first release after LTS is a good spot
<elfy> it might be - but almost at the end of the cycle is not
<ochosi> knome: i agree that it's a good spot, but for me a transition 6 weeks before october is a bit sucky
<bluesabre> it seems pretty low-risk though
<ochosi> right, so i guess that means we should give the PPA some testing
<bluesabre> the only reason it is a big deal is that the API did change, and thus every package had to be updated for the new call
<ochosi> (btw, xfpm should support it out-of-the-box in utopic)
<elfy> good luck with that 
<ochosi> elfy: i'm thinking we, the release team, should probably test it
<ochosi> to have a more empirical base for our decision
<ochosi> if we don't have time for any testing, i'm still kinda -1 on the whole thing
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/upower
<bluesabre> I'll install now regardless of the direction we decide
<ochosi> cool
<bluesabre> if I see anything that is strongly against, I'll let you know
<ochosi> i'm @work so i can take a look the earliest in the evening
<ochosi> over the weekend (from tomorrow morning) i'm travelling outside .at, so offline
<bluesabre> my weekends are open, wife got a new part-time through october
<elfy> I'm sure that the cause of bug 1208204 was low risk at the time - didn't turn out too well 
<ubottu> bug 1208204 in Ubuntu Studio "[SRU]Update indicator-sound-gtk2 with patch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208204
<ochosi> hm, i don't remember the exact consequences of that one right now
<bluesabre> completely broken sound indicator
<bluesabre> it wasn't pretty
<ochosi> ah right
<elfy> I can add that ppa here and now
<bluesabre> indicator-sound used the new gtk api, with stuff not available in gtk2
<bluesabre> so we were stuck
<elfy> I'm not going to be +1'ing anything that's going to make us look like that again ;)
<bluesabre> agreed
<ochosi> yeah, i guess that once there is a decision on the transition, it'll move ahead, no matter what breakage it brings
<bluesabre> we didn't agree to that one though, it was dropped on us
<bluesabre> a few short weeks before release
<elfy> I know - not blaming us - was just saying :)
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> right 
<elfy> installed that ppa now and the screen is now black
<elfy> so black I can see what I'm typing :p
<bluesabre> also note package versions, some of the -staging ppa packages might be "newer"
<ochosi> the screen is black?
<elfy> ochosi: I'm joking :)
<bluesabre> and obviously won't work with the newer api
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i'm really really hoping that it won't create confusion with patches that were floating around and that debian included and the stuff that is in git master
<ochosi> elfy: oh, good :) no jokes with black screens!! :D
<elfy> he he he 
<bluesabre> all the patches for upower are in debian
<bluesabre> or, hopefully upstreamed
<bluesabre> so yeah, probably ppa-purge ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging
<elfy> not actually got any ppa's on this 
<bluesabre> ok, cool
<elfy> got completely confused with which ones were which 
 * bluesabre needs to update the descriptions on those ppas today
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> gotta run for lunch now
<ochosi> i presume you guys won't be around anymore when i return
<bluesabre> pretty likely
<ochosi> bluesabre: i might ping you on g+ since i'll miss you tonight as well (train leaves very early tomorrow)
<bluesabre> alrighty
<ochosi> okeydokey
<elfy> ochosi: I'm about till Sunday night now 
<ochosi> elfy: ah good to know
<ochosi> so yeah, hf and ttyl!
<elfy> cya later
<bluesabre> alrighty, time to reboot
<bluesabre> Setting up xfce4-power-manager-data (1.3.2-0ubuntu2upower1) ...
<bluesabre> Setting up xfce4-settings (4.11.3-0ubuntu1upower1) ...
<bluesabre> almost missed there
<bluesabre> Setting up xfce4-power-manager (1.3.2-0ubuntu2upower1) ...
<bluesabre> Setting up xfce4-power-manager-plugins (1.3.2-0ubuntu2upower1) ...
<elfy> I really need a newer machine ... 
<elfy> or stop forgetting to run more than 1 vm 
<elfy> still updating the laptop - not used very often by me :p
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> posted to wrong channel
<bluesabre> tested suspend from menu, suspend on lid close, xfpm functionality (keyboard, brightness, attached devices), shutdown, restart - all good
<bluesabre> tried hibernate, which never works for me, still doesn't
<bluesabre> checking system logs now
<elfy> yep - read it - thought I would comment in here and drag you back :p
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> just testing suspendy stuff prior to the ppa
<bluesabre> good idea
<elfy> I don't actually use the thing for anything other than testing 
<bluesabre> everything seems to check out from my quick spot-check
<bluesabre> I'll leave my computer on today and see if any mayhem ensues
<bluesabre> :)
<elfy> lol
<elfy> ok those basic checks work ok 
<bluesabre> so yeah, ftr, for now I am +1
<bluesabre> gotta run, be back tonight
<elfy> my position isn't actually going to change - too late imho
<bluesabre0> Connected on my mobile.
<knome> congrats
<bluesabre0> So yeah, I'm +1 because the changes that come with the new upower seem to be limited to bug fixes and API changes.  Should we go this route, it should be very low-risk for us.
<bluesabre0> We lose nothing, and potentially fix a corner case somewhere.
<knome> +1 for taking the new version? 
<elfy> conversely a corner case somewhere could go horribly wrong
<knome> what's our choices of taking the new version or not if it lands in the repositories?
<elfy> not sure why everyone else should be jumping if it's gnome affected and they've left the need this late
<knome> i guess
<knome> but the process unfortunately doesn't always go like that
<bluesabre0> Right. They are well beyond feature freeze for this, and might have to suit this one out.
<elfy> maybe not - but in my position I'm not going to change my mind 
<bluesabre0> *sit
<knome> is the status quo that GNOME breaks if it's not in, but others do not necessarily need it?
<elfy> from what I gather - gnome would like something - which needs new upower
<bluesabre0> Completely different gnome version... 3.10 vs 3.12
<bluesabre0> 3.12 depends on the new upowet
<Unit193> So, will be pulling in perhaps other things we use that might break?
<knome> ugh, changing the whole gnome stack at this point?
<bluesabre0> We'd have to confirm. Individual packages have mostly been included already. I think it's mainly shell and dependencies
<knome> that alone is a no-no, especially when it affects parts that might very well break things for others
<knome> bluesabre0, would you land xfce 4.12 at this point of the cycle?
<knome> that's really the main question, not if we are ok if upower version changes or not
<bluesabre0> We ship development packages for LTS...
<knome> i mean, for us, it's only the upower change that should matter, but from release team POV...
<bluesabre0> Right
<knome> bluesabre0, sure, but we didn't land them after the feature freeze, and we did test them
<bluesabre0> They should hold off.
<knome> bluesabre0, and they don't require packages that might break stuff for others
<bluesabre0> Noskcaj, can you confirm what new versions of packages will land if this goes through?
<Unit193> Debian has the new gmb.
<knome> the question would be completely different if they explicitly wanted to land new upower (not because of some other package) that would actually fix a bug
<brainwash> what could possible break? we already are have gtk 3.12
<bluesabre0> Right. I'm just on the side that should this land, we should be in the clear... So not really +1 as much as it is +0
<knome> bluesabre0, if it lands, and upower breaks something for us, by the new policy, the gnome team should fix our bugs.
<knome> or at least help fixing them, or then the new version upload should be reverted
<knome> brainwash, a lot can break always.
<knome> brainwash, besides, it's not just a technical issue, it's a social issue; there are feature freeze dates set for a reason
<brainwash> to break them
<brainwash> FFe
<bluesabre0> Yes, agreed with knome
<brainwash> :)
<knome> and just because the other kid wants a lollipop, that's no reason to break our toy.
<knome> brainwash, stop the stupid remarks. i mean it.
<bluesabre0> From my viewpoint, new upower should not break anything for our packages. If it means other new things for us, that's the real risk
<brainwash> we don't know how, but we just assume that it will break our software
<bluesabre0> We've been hurt by these things before, so we're naturally cautious
<knome> the decision should not be made only by judging the things that *will* break, but also the things that the new upload *risks* breaking
<elfy> which is why I am where I am 
<bluesabre0> Right. New gnome could mean additional risks
<knome> allowing big uploads after FFe has been too easy in the history, and in the last real UDS there was (again) a decision made that it should be much harder
<brainwash> but I agree, there has to be some sort of blueprint
<brainwash> so we know what is going to change
<knome> the problem with even creating the blueprint is that it happens at this point of the cycle
<knome> if the blueprint for landing new GNOME was ready, say 3 months ago, it would be a completely different situation
<knome> because then we could have, for example, tested new (preliminary) package versions with our stuff
<bluesabre0> I also want to know where this discussion is happening. I've only heard this info from Nosckaj
<brainwash> bug 1330037 has been created on 2014-06-14
<knome> it's plain *wrong* to *start* *planning* a *new version* upload *after* the *FF*
<ubottu> bug 1330037 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "upower 0.99 transition" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1330037
<knome> looks like *we* created that bug
<brainwash> indeed
<knome> anyway, if the ubuntu GNOME team wants to land that change, they should have worked hard to get all of those packages "fix released"
<knome> if most of them aren't that at feature freeze, then it's a sign that others aren't ready for the new version upload, so they shouldn't proceed with uploading gnome 3.12
<elfy> bluesabre0: agreed - I've not seen anything on their mailing list 
<bluesabre0> Then we agree to block this change and are ready to act if our voices are not heard.
<knome> bluesabre0, ready to act in which way?
<knome> where's the FFe bug?
<bluesabre0> Patch our packages, test, and hope for the best :-(
<knome> that's stupid
<knome> that's exactly what the FFe process is trying to avoid
<bluesabre0> Yeah, agreed. At the very least, we have patches in case we need them.
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Isn't much, but http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/09/08/%23ubuntu-gnome.html up to today.
<knome> bluesabre0, have *already* ?
<bluesabre0> We have upower patches... Not necessarily other things.
<knome> bluesabre0, well, that's soothing to know at least.
<knome> hmm
<knome> slickymasterWork, installer slideshow
<bluesabre0> I'm not defending the change at this point. But I'm ready to add support as needed.
<knome> bluesabre0, we should be :)
 * knome enters panic mode
<knome> bluesabre0, how are you available today?
 * bluesabre0 enters work and panic mode
<bluesabre0> 0
<knome> >__<
 * elfy doesn't do the panic thing
<elfy> gnome-channel on the 10th > Noskcaj	kubuntu says they are fine with new upower, as they don't need rebuilds, xubuntu needs to test first, so they *might* be a blocker if stuff is broken
<elfy> seems to be just this hope from darkxst that everyone is just going to roll over and let gnome have what they want
<elfy> and the talk is still only got as far as "we'd best do the FFe's then"
<elfy> not sure that Noskcaj has got the right end of the stick here
<knome> have they talked with the release them?
<elfy> not got that far yet
 * knome partly leaves the panic mode
<knome> the only "trusty" thing we have in the slideshow is the tahr artwork at the end of the slideshow
<knome> everything else ~right, and the version number is correct
<bluesabre0> Catfish is reliable
<bluesabre0> ;-)
<elfy> nothing in -release from darkxst about that between 4th and today 
<knome> mhm
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/~darkxst/+archive/ubuntu/upower - https://launchpad.net/~noskcaj/+archive/ubuntu/upower  seems to be them.
<knome> "them"
<knome> still can't see a FFe bug :P
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> So, looks like everyone is in favor of waiting until Vicious Velociraptor.
<elfy> silly name for Vapid Vampire
<knome> i would call it "valid vorry" :P
<elfy> :)
<knome> (i know it's spelled with a w...?)
<knome> -?
<knome> stupid keyboard
<elfy> walid worry?
<knome> no error can exist in user..
 * skellat notes with alarm the possibility of a nasty huge FFe and is prepared to raise objections wearing Docs hat
<slickymasterWork> exactly knome, just the artwork, and being the first release after LTS I don't see any urgent need in going into making changes in the other slides, or do you differ?
<ochosi> oh wow, so much backlog
<bluesabre0> Chatty folks
<knome> slickymasterWork, as i said, the slides are appropriate
<slickymasterWork> lol, ochosi, that was my exact thoughts 5 minutes ago
<knome> slickymasterWork, it's not a question whether we want to refresh the content, but is it simply outdated (like saying 14.04...)
<ochosi> elfy, bluesabre0: i've read the chatter in the meantime now and while i'm happy that we don't have to expect total mayhem if this transition goes down, i think we should -1 it. simply because otherwise it makes us accessories and more responsible for potential breakage
<slickymasterWork> well, I wasn't sure, I noticed you were/are on panic mode :P
<bluesabre0> ochosi, I concur
<slickymasterWork> it isn't. like you said yourself, just the Tahr artwork, and I'm counting on your fabulous aesthetic sense and gifted talent to produce a new one ;9
<slickymasterWork> knome: ^^ (pretty please, with sugar on top)
<knome> lol
<knome> well, the tahr was made by ochosi, so maybe he should change it to be an unicorn :P
<ochosi> knome: could do that :)
<knome> it could be pretty fun to add a corn to the tahr art, then make it look like it shines :P
<bluesabre0> +1
<knome> i need to fix some work things for a client, i can potentially look into $things after that, like the wallpaper..
<slickymasterWork> something tell me that you're the one to come up with a unicorn. You have that all background of psychedelic music listener ;) 
<slickymasterWork> elfy would be a good choice also, with that thought in mind (something related to Tangerine Dream)
<bluesabre0> $things=wallpaper;$things
<knome> hah
<bluesabre0> (Close enough)
<ochosi> knome: so you're doing the unicorn? :)
<ochosi> if you do, please add a rainbow and let's make the slideshow pinkish (pleia2!!)
<knome> huhu
<knome> i'll consider doing it
<knome> i need to do some more work still
<elfy> ochosi: thanks, so we're as one - figuratively speaking
<Unit193> knome: Looked into why sv failed, turns out it has 0 translators and is 0% translated.
<knome> :D
<knome> great fail!
<Unit193> bzr rm would make it validate. :P
<Unit193> debian-changelog-line-too-long line 4, 5, 10.
<Unit193> knome: You have the same thing listed twice in the changelog.
<knome> aha.
<RobertJDohnert> Hey Unit193
<RobertJDohnert> How are things in mint world
<Unit193> Howdy.
<Unit193> Mint?
<knome> random question of the day, maybe
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-12
<elfy> morning
<Noskcaj> elfy, DId you get the chance to test ppa:noskcaj/upower?
<elfy> Noskcaj: have you read the backlog at all?
<Noskcaj> Not really, i lose 6 hours of it when i disconnect, so it's hard to
<elfy> heh
<elfy> hang on 
<elfy> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/09/11/%23xubuntu-devel.html
<elfy> we discussed this a fair bit yesterday - the most important bit is at 14:25
<elfy> are there any FFe's for this yet?
<Noskcaj> no, not the ppa is near done, ill make the FFe on sunday (busy with stuff like a soccer grand final till then)
<Noskcaj> *now
<elfy> so the FFe is going to be even later
<Noskcaj> yeah :(
<Noskcaj> We were waiting for some phone guys to be ready (i.e. this month)
<elfy> mmm
<Noskcaj> And xfce is the only DE that isn't completely ready upstream
<elfy> and?
<elfy> to quote knome "	it's plain *wrong* to *start* *planning* a *new version* upload *after* the *FF*"
<Noskcaj> the plan was started as soon as 3.12 released
<Noskcaj> It's just phone guys were busy
<Noskcaj> and debian hadn't done it till the start of august
<elfy> Noskcaj: where are the discussions about this - we tried to find some yesterday, but apart from a couple of random comments in -gnome we couldn't find anything
<Noskcaj> Which consisted of "fix it if it breaks" from the utopia team to most of the smaller packaging teams
<Noskcaj> There's not a huge lot, mostly just darkxst and i looking at stuff months back
<Noskcaj> then hoping the ubuntu-core and -phone guys would have time sooner
<knome> Noskcaj, the whole issue is really badly planned and executed
<Noskcaj> yep
<knome> so then stop driving the FFe train
<Noskcaj> unity makes this stuff *really* hard
<Noskcaj> I'm only going to keep driving if it's ok will xubuntu, ad as it doesn't look like it, i think gnome will be at 3.8/3.6 a while longer
<knome> at this point of the cycle, it really isn't okay
<Luyin> elfy: are you here?
<Luyin> btw, hi room
<Luyin> morning, slickymasterWork 
<knome> Luyin, if you have a QA-related question, just shoot
<Luyin> knome: already solved it, thanks ;)
<qwebirc769355> hey Luyin, what's up?
<Luyin> qwebirc769355: I was going to ask a question about translating, but I resolved it. just looked around the launchpad pages and got used to how everything works
<qwebirc769355> great. Don't forget, we're always around, so don't hesitate to poke us whenever you're having doubts
<qwebirc769355> and thanks for steping in and helpi
<Luyin> isn't there a german localisation mailing list? https://lists.ubuntu.com/#Development+Lists
<slickymasterWork> Luyin: would this be what you're looking for -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGermanTranslators/Mithelfen#Weitere_Anforderungen
<Luyin> slickymaster: looks good
<Luyin> thanks
<slickymasterWork> damn connectivity
<knome> ;)
<elfy> Luyin: what's up?
<knome> elfy, #ubuntu-gnome
<Luyin> elfy: I've started translating the xubu documentation, but my questions were resolved by looking at the launchpad page :)
<elfy> Luyin: okey doke
<elfy> knome: what about it?
<knome> discussion about the FFe stuff
<elfy> oh - I'll check logs later
<elfy> ta
<elfy> knome: read - thnanks
<brainwash> bluesabre: xfce4-settings includes a custom patch which changes the gtk and icon theme, but the dependencies are missing (non xubuntu)
<brainwash> bluesabre: did you agree that this should be fixed?
<brainwash> bug 1322305
<ubottu> bug 1322305 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "xfce4-settings needs shimmer-themes as a dependency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1322305
<brainwash> would also fix bug 1050012
<ubottu> bug 1050012 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "Stock Xfce does not have a default GTK 3 theme" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1050012
<brainwash> and maybe bug 1157706
<ubottu> bug 1157706 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "missing xfce icons" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1157706
<Luyin> ok, enough translations for today. I'm off, cul8er
<bluesabre> brainwash: yes, if we patch it for a different theme, but don't expect that theme to exist, its an issue
<bluesabre> I'll check it out this weekedn
<bluesabre> time for work, bbl
<Noskcaj> knome, Can you make a comment on the upower transition bug, so the release team see your views?
<Unit193> ochosi: I believe that's more for you, XTL ^
<Noskcaj> true, just knome's the one who has been talking to darkxst
<Unit193> Indeed, XPL has been a little busy as of late.
<elfy> shame we can't wait months to do that - like gnome did
<Unit193> On the one hand, yeah that's pretty crappy to wait until after FF to land upower and the entire DE, but on the other hand I do get them being stalled by unity, we've had that problem and we're attached less than they are.  Still not sure why the upower part couldn't be pushed sooner though...
<Noskcaj> elfy, All our months were taken by debian xfce
<Noskcaj> Unit193, Because it broke ubuntu-touch until the start of this month
<elfy> our months?
<Noskcaj> of delaying it
<elfy> what our is this Noskcaj ? Xubuntu?
<Noskcaj> Xfce distros, i guess
<elfy> so why can't gnome wait until 15.04 then
<elfy> what's the hurry
<Noskcaj> darkxst (understandably) doesn't want to ship 3.6 and 3.8 components for yet another release
<elfy> or rather why should we have to deal with any possible fallout for someone else?
<Noskcaj> and the regression chance for stuff other than gnome is pretty low
<Unit193> Is 3.12 latest stable, or .13?
<Noskcaj> 3.12
<Noskcaj> 3.13 is devel
<elfy> pretty low is not not going to happen is it
<Noskcaj> no, but what changes are
<elfy> and at cycle start it's not so much of an issue is it
<elfy> are gnome going to fix things for us if they break?
<elfy> that's all beside the point though - the point is FF is for a reason
<Noskcaj> I would assume darkxst would help with our stuff if asked
<Noskcaj> I agree with you on the FF point, but it's still up to the release team
<elfy> it stinks
<skellat> Grumbles: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upower/+bug/1330037/comments/29
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1330037 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] upower 0.99.1 transition" [Undecided,In progress]
<elfy> skellat: that has been the topic of conversation in here for about 2 days ;)
<skellat> elfy: Yes, but I put an objection on record as noted at that specific link
<skellat> They're *my* grumbles
<elfy> thanks - we'll get ochosi to officially do it too I should hope
<elfy> skellat: thought it was just a link to the bug :)
<skellat> elfy: Nope, I spent some time while walking around the grocery store thinking of how to politely put that
<elfy> :)
<elfy> makes it easier for me - I was wondering ... 
<Unit193> No, elfy wasn't wondering how to nicely put it, bluntly maybe. ;)
<elfy> no I was wondering how to put it politely - I has other hat too ...
<Unit193> :D
<skellat> Yes, I owe elfy testing
<elfy> lol - everyone owes me that ... 
<elfy> I meant the cchat :)
<Unit193> "...whatever we name..." Awwwh, he still thinks the community names it, how quaint. :)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> I was calling unicorn unicorn before sabdfl did \o/
<elfy> he saw it somewhere - must have :)
<skellat> Just start calling it Victorious Velociraptor
<skellat> It'll eat somebody's lunch
<elfy> it's Vapid Vampire skellat :p
<skellat> :-)
 * skellat heads back to the kitchen to deal with dinner
 * elfy posts - leaves it to XPL 
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-13
<bluesabre> knome: oh yeah?
<knome> yep
<knome> but we can do that next week
<bluesabre> ok
<bluesabre> working on menulibre this weekend, will start implementing all your feature bug reports
<knome> hmmh
<knome> wondering what LP project i should use for filing a bug in xubuntu generally
<Unit193> So docs, some are pretty close: de.po   44.2822%, es.po   66.91%, fr.po   71.7762%, ru.po   65.2068%, fi.po   99.5134%
<knome> :)
<knome> bug 1369100
<ubottu> bug 1369100 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Update Xubuntu infrastructure to be able to gather statistics about IRC support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1369100
<knome> pleia2, slickymaster, ^ you might be interested :)
<elfy> I would be 
<knome> you too :)
<elfy> I'd be interested to know if people come via my sig on the forum too :)
<knome> do you point directly to the freenode webchat?
<elfy> yea
<knome> mhm
<knome> then just change that url
<elfy> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu 
<knome> ah
<knome> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu&nick=xubuntu..f&prompt=1
<knome> use that
<elfy> changing
<knome> of course, you can't force the users not to change their nicks with prompt=1
<elfy> no - but general dropins from a link would probably not bother
<knome> yep
<elfy> changed it now
<knome> then just don't use prompt :)
<elfy> I see you did the website one 
<knome> yep, and working on the docs one
<elfy> cool
<knome> pushed
<knome> working on the slideshow one
<elfy> :)
<knome> there's no "elfys-forum-signature" package/project
<knome> boo!
<elfy> lol
<knome> ok, pushed slideshow
<knome> bluesabre, we need to get ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu into the xubuntu packageset
<bluesabre> ok, I'll poke Laney about that later today.  He was on vacation last week and seems to be the only person who does packageset maintenance
<knome> aha
<knome> :)
<elfy> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> (re: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2014-September/000717.html)
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<GridCube> the spanish translation should be already about 80%
<GridCube> i will have to poke the translation team again
#xubuntu-devel 2014-09-14
<knome> morning elfy
<elfy> morning knome 
<knome> there's something that might interest to you i did
<knome> but since it's still way WIP, let me PM you
<elfy> okey doke
<elfy> bluesabre_: thanks - just need ochosi to do the same as XPL 
<bluesabre_> spoke to ochosi yesterday, said he wouldn't be able to get a good connection until Tuesday
<bluesabre_> I'll ping him about it though
<elfy> yea - I know he's not about till then
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-07
<Unit193> knome: Pong ish.
<knome> what?
<Unit193> You pinged.
<knome> i wonder why...
<knome> let me see the backlog for context
<knome> nope.
<knome> i'll ping you again if i remember...
<Unit193> Good, because I'm gone again. :D
<knome> aha
<knome> have fun
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> the parole crash is pretty annoying... it dies at g_signal_handler_disconnect... even though we make sure the signal is connected beforehand
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> technically, we can not disconnect the signals at when it's shut down, they *should* get disconnected when everything closes and is finalized
<bluesabre> i think
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> guess I'll need to valgrind a vivid vs wily vm
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, taking a pic of my mug seems to work better now. Before it got stuck on "initializing camera".
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: great, that's very goood news
<bluesabre> bbiab
<knome> waiting very impatiently for new uploads :)
<knome> jjfrv8, did you need help with the thunar documentation?
<micahg> knome: I'll be either looking at stuff tonight or tomorrow
<knome> micahg, happy to hear; here's hoping you will find the time and energy
<jjfrv8> knome, don't think so. I've been in a holding pattern pending ochosi's review.
<knome> jjfrv8, okay :)
<knome> ok, i'm off
<knome> see you all later
<bluesabre> back
<bluesabre> hey micahg
<knome> bluesabre, i guess you will still need to upload stuff to shimmer-themes?
<xnox> knome: depedns if that's for upload rights or for inclusions in the various -meta packages
<knome> xnox, we had shimmer-themes, now it's slipped in the kubuntu packageset
<knome> and we want it back; we're basically the upstream for that, and the package includes gtk/xfwm themes and is of no use to kubuntu
<knome> so i don't know what the answer to your question should have been...
<knome> slickymasterWork, any updates on the translations for the ubiquity slidehow
<knome> +s...
<knome> slickymasterWork, seeing as thing are now, it's likely that this will be postponed for w+1 though..
<slickymasterWork> up to now, nothing from no one knome :(
<knome> mhm
<knome> well i guess that means people don't mind, so it's ok to proceed with it
<slickymasterWork> isn't that rationale an assumption stretch
<slickymasterWork> ?
<bluesabre> knome: yeah, I'll probably need to, but micahg uploaded the most recent shimmer-themes package already
<bluesabre> so no immediate rush
<bluesabre> xnox: orion-gtk-theme was added as a recommends to the breeze package (for some reason) which yanked shimmer-themes out of xubuntu and into the kubuntu packageset
<bluesabre> somewhat unfortunate for them since nobody maintains that theme ;)
<knome> :)
<knome> krytarik, so... should we tackle the pdf stuff placement today?
<krytarik> knome: Well, I'm not particularly sure what you and slickymaster are getting at currently. :P
<knome> i do
<knome> i can do a mockup for you soonish and i can help with it as well
<knome> i even have some work for it done in a branch...
<knome> he-heeyyyy
<knome> i hacked this successfully!
<knome> well, almost at least
<knome> but i solved a problem
<knome> huzzah
<knome> another problem solved
<knome> not digging for a solution for a third one
<knome> krytarik, is there any way to check if another target is called within a Makefile?
<knome> krytarik, eg. if i do "make all", is there any way to check which targets are being built for the "html" target?
<knome> krytarik, or do we have to introduce another target that touches some file or sth?
<krytarik> knome: What specifically do you want to achieve then?
<knome> krytarik, currently, we are doing the html stuff first
<knome> is there any way to check whether the PDF's will build, eg. if we should mention them in the docs?
<knome> the "obvious" choices are to
<knome> 1) simply make pdf before html, but that's meh
<knome> 2) create a new target (added to all and pdf) that touches a file
<knome> then all would be
<knome> all: clean pdf-check html html-translations pdf pdf-translations
<knome> or sth
<knome> and pdf
<knome> pdf: | pdf-check
<knome> (in case somebody ran "make pdf html")
<knome> krytarik, does that make sense at all?
<krytarik> Yeah, thinking.
<knome> the actual logic would be to copy the file to the dir so it's found and will be included if we are building pdf's
<knome> if not, it will not be found and docbook will fall back to no content
<knome> i did the same for the translators
<knome> (basically, C never has that section and thus no weird sentences about each language)
<knome> but for languages, i'm creating translators.xml based on a translated translator-credits.xml
<knome> ..which basically has one string
 * knome whistles
<krytarik> knome: You can't really assume a certain build order though.
<knome> no
<knome> but otoh, that's the beauty
<knome> if you don't want mentions of the pdf's, just build them after html
<knome> i'm fine with them being fine with just "all" though
<knome> because if people do weirdo things themself (like Unit193 does), they can't expect everything to work
<krytarik> I'm thinking we might just go with your suggestion to assume they're always build. :P
<knome> well, mostly they are
<knome> but... i guess i'd like to not do the mention if they aren't there
<krytarik> Yeah, I'm going to continue thinking about it.
<knome> ok, i'll wait for some more time and do a commit for the translator stuff meanwhile
<knome> krytarik, so what do you say
<knome> krytarik, should i do "just something" to get it to work for wily?
<knome> krytarik, or how long do you think your thinking will take
<krytarik> Yeah, I'd go with I just said. :P
<krytarik> + what
<knome> so... assumptions?
<krytarik> Always in there, that is.
<knome> yeah, right...
<knome> that's one option
<knome> i'll consider about it
<knome> doing a "fake" check target isn't too hard
<knome> and we can simply document that
<knome> if people start whining about it
<knome> right?
<knome> or just ignore them.
<krytarik> I think hardly any people aside from us build them anyway.
<knome> yeah
<knome> krytarik, can you think of a reason why we wouldn't just translate all xml files that are in C/?
<knome> we use shipped-docs now, but it wouldn't be a big hit even if we didn't use some translations
<knome> it's so quick to do them anyway
<knome> just an idea..
<krytarik> Honestly, I was thinking we're doing that.
<knome> nope.
<knome> i'll look at disabling that at least
<knome> hmm..
<knome> yep.
<knome> there we go
<knome> ok, i think that is done now...
 * knome test-builds once more
<knome> oh heh,
<knome> yeah...
<knome> that
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I think intltool got a bit dumber in wily
<bluesabre> it generates its own makefiles, and guesses at what should be in there
<bluesabre> only now it guesses incorrectly :\
 * bluesabre avoids building parole for a while
<knome> :D
<knome> krytarik, i found a reason why we don't want to translate all files
<knome> krytarik, cc-by-sa.xml
<krytarik> Ah, right.
<knome> ok, pushing
<knome> eh, diverged
<knome> pushing again...
<knome> revision 424 up
<knome> huhu
<knome> krytarik, please test
<knome> slickymasterWork, ping, please test lp:xubuntu-docs
<akxwi-dave> Hi Knome, just to let you know been testing the new xfdesktop and so far so good, nothing has hit me with any problems..
<knome> akxwi-dave, good to hear
<knome> flocculant, bluesabre ^
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave: that's good news, considering I just uploaded it a few minutes ago to wily
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> thanks for taking a look!
<akxwi-dave> :-) will keep pushing it harder..  just done the basics so far.. but will start throwing some extra wobblies at it.
<pleia2> knome: I'm a day behind, but finally home insight on what? (lost in backscroll, would have to open logs...)
<knome> i'll open the log...
<knome> right
<pleia2> haha, I can, just didn't know if you knew offhand
<knome> pleia2, flocculant was asking about why ubuntu mate can take donations
<knome> pleia2, and stuff around it
<pleia2> either they made some kind of arrangement with Canonical or are ignoring potential conflicts/legal/whatever stuff
<pleia2> it's easy to ignore them, most young projects do
<knome> would be nice to know
<pleia2> someone could ask them :)
<knome> maybe
<knome> anyway, the point is that the donations they get aren't very small, they are giving away like 350-400$ a month in total
<knome> ok, they aren't very large either
<knome> but they are basically giving their own developers and maintainers money
 * pleia2 nods
<pleia2> I have no interest in handling finances and taxes for these things, I do it for a non-profit that's only US-based and that's hard enough
<knome> yep
<pleia2> so even if Canonical is ok with it, the administrative overhead for non-trivial amounts of money is painful
<knome> yeah, i'm not exactly looking to start taking donations
<knome> i just asked #ubuntu-mate, let's see what they say
<davmor2> pleia2, knome: also you can just ask people to give when they download the image, Pretty sure you can select xubuntu, then canonical have the over head
<pleia2> davmor2: there's no xubuntu or flavors slider anymore, just community - a fund we can draw from
<pleia2> davmor2: so we mention that on our donations page :) http://xubuntu.org/donations/
<davmor2> ah fair enough
<davmor2> I haven't seen that page in a while
<knome> davmor2, if you have problems with eyesight, i would consult a doctor ;)
<davmor2> knome: :P
<flocculant> not on a monday in the uk ... 
<knome> hah
<bluesabre> not without insurance in the us ...
<bluesabre> new blueman uploaded, expect to see that a bit later today
<knome> bluesabre, assigned the bug to you...
<knome> nice to see the burndown looking better day by day
<krytarik> knome: You changed the indention style of all scripts, thus also making the diff a little hard to read. >_<
<knome> krytarik, yeah but the indentation sucked
<knome> it was a mix of tabs and spaces...
<bluesabre> knome: thanks
<bluesabre> krytarik: diff -w ?
<krytarik> Yep, done already - had to download the files from a previous revision for that, of course.
<bluesabre> might be able to do bzr diff --diff-options=-w or something similar
<bluesabre> haven't tried it
<krytarik> Ah, right.
<knome> :)
<krytarik> knome: Slight streamlining and adjustments: http://paste.openstack.org/show/f4g6iLQNuq0PtGoZKBjr/
<krytarik> knome: Also, while slickymaster seemed to agree with your idea to only link to the PDFs from each doc version's main page, he's also said he agrees with my idea of linking to them from each page - hence my confusion reg. him.
<knome> krytarik, MP please or i'll forget...
<knome> (and mess it up)
<krytarik> bluesabre: Didn't even think of doing it within bzr, that is :P - that works though.
<knome> krytarik, if you have a better idea on how to remove the xml tag from the files than tail...
<bluesabre> krytarik: at work I have my editor set up to convert tabs to spaces and strip trailing whitespace... and I'm the only one so I depend on the -w option to see what I am breaking
<bluesabre> otherwise its just alllllll whitespace changes
<krytarik> Hehe.
<Unit193> What?  I don't do that weird of things, and sure I can expect things to work.
<knome> nnoooo.
<knome> bbl
<krytarik> knome: 'tail' is fine there, I guess - only the '-q' flag is unnecessary.
<bluesabre> flocculant: poke
<bluesabre> ochosi: poke
<bluesabre> anybody around running wily want to take mugshot 0.3.0 for a spin before I upload today? https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
<bluesabre> if you haven't installed today's xubuntu-default-settings and restarted your session, do that first ;)
<bluesabre> today/yesterday's
<krytarik> knome: So it's currently at: http://paste.openstack.org/show/Gfqdqx4eP8c61pyZhtpQ/
<flocculant> bluesabre: that'll be a \o/ 
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, 0.3.0 still looking good here too.
<bluesabre> good good
<flocculant> oh ... 
<bluesabre> uh oh
<flocculant> yep - still \o/ 
<flocculant> :D
<bluesabre> phew
<flocculant> freshly brewed dad joke
<bluesabre> seems the tea leaves were bad, better toss it out
<flocculant> seem good to me 
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> still appear to have parole issues here - but assume that's because old install
<bluesabre> flocculant: which issues?
<knome> bluesabre, don't ask him what "issues" he has
<flocculant> crashing
<flocculant> knome: it's ok - we're talking specific issues currently :D
<knome> ;)
<knome> better be very specific then..
<bluesabre> flocculant: crash on close or startup?
<flocculant> close
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> I have a fix for that now, just in any of our PPAs at the moment
<bluesabre> *not
<knome> it's always funny when you're told that "app crashed so it must close" - when you click on the close button..
<knome> micahg, hello
<flocculant> bluesabre: cool 
<bluesabre> I'll probably have that uploaded some time today, hopefully
<flocculant> okey - I'll watch for something regardless of when 
<bluesabre> in fact, packaging it to send to ppa now
<bluesabre> flocculant: uploaded to xubuntu-staging... should build and be available shortly
<bluesabre> I feel so productive on my days off
<flocculant> ha ha 
<flocculant> ok - well I'll check in a bit, if not it'll be the morning 
<bluesabre> alrighty
<bluesabre> flocculant: should be available now (and anybody else interested in parole not dying)
<krytarik> knome: Btw, the all-spaces indention in the lower 'sed' part of pdf-create.sh was deliberate, to adapt to the formatting of the produced HTML file.
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, verified crash on close pre-upgrade, all better after. Didn't do much more testing than that.
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: great, thanks
<krytarik> knome: Not that it matters currently, since we're not using that now.
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, gmusicbrowser crashes on close. Related?
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: slim possibility that it might be
<bluesabre> I'll have to check that out
<flocculant> bluesabre: not seeing new parole - but then I've got it available from staging and daily - and daily failed to build
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, need to fix daily build.. new build requirement in trunk
<bluesabre> the one is -staging should be good if you were to force install it, the bugfix was pretty clear for that one
<flocculant> yeo
<flocculant> confirm that fix :)
<knome> krytarik, :)
<flocculant> well - night all :)
<bluesabre> night flocculant 
<bluesabre> and parole-daily should be fixed tomorrow
<bluesabre> ... if I commit a change to trunk
<bluesabre> and possibly add appstream to our ppa
<bluesabre> work work work
<knome> pleia2, what kind of data do we want to get out of the survey results?
<knome> pleia2, can you think of any correlations we'd like to do?
<two_jays> dkessel: can you tell me how to review a suggested translation in launchpad? i already did a ne translation, but couldnt see how i could review one. Thanks :)
<knome> two_jays, you can't review unless you are a member of a specific LP group
<two_jays> ok. then i will keep translating. and if i think a suggested one is good should i copy it or leave that completely?
<knome> two_jays, if something is suggested and it's good, just leave it
<knome> two_jays, and thanks for contributing
<two_jays> im happy to help you. I like Xubuntu and want to take part in that :) its my 
<two_jays> main and productive system for my studies.
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> wonderful progress today
<knome> :)
<knome> same amount tomorrow and we're looking much better:P
<bluesabre> tomorrow I work, so don't expect that from me :D
<knome> nooooo
<knome> :P
<knome> micahg, good evening
<knome> slickymaster, around?
<bluesabre> nope
<knome> nope what?
<bluesabre> he's not around
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> found a fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/catfish/+bug/1395720, woohoo
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1395720 in catfish (Ubuntu) "authentication in livesession accepts any value as password" [High,Confirmed]
<knome> :)
<knome> nice
<knome> time for an upload then ;)
<knome> with the optional CSD flag for catfish, obviously
<knome> two items with one upload!
<knome> BANG
<bluesabre> that's the plan
<bluesabre> trying to fix all the things
<knome> heh
<pleia2> knome: the survey we already did, or a future one?
<knome> we did
<knome> i hate analyzing surveys with LO calc, fwiw
<knome> especially since google exports the results in a VERY silly format
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Thanks for your work on Blueman2 :-)
<pleia2> heh
<knome> (all answers for a checkbox group are comma separated in a single cell, not different columns)
<knome> ^ MEHH
<pleia2> that's annoying
<knome> yeah
<knome> i was actually just considering creating an sql database for that
<knome> and scrape results off that...
<pleia2> nice
<knome> but not if we don't need correlation data
<knome> because the basic stuff is totally available from gforms directly
<knome> and i'm not sure what correlations we'd like
<knome> maybe that would mean we'd be overthinking it
<pleia2> heh :)
<knome> anyway, for example
<knome> only 20-25% people said the default office/media apps satisfy their needs
<knome> ok ok, the office stuff has changed now
<knome> but wondering about the media part
<knome> maybe that's something we should dig deeper into
<pleia2> I haven't looked at the results
<pleia2> the media stuff is interesting, I also don't use defaults
<knome> i'm the odd bird, but i actually do..
<knome> i only use vlc when parole fails to play a dvd
<pleia2> well, I'd jusually say I'm odd so I don't do what normal people do with xubuntu
<knome> jusually :D
<pleia2> but in the case of the media player, I agree that *you* are odd ;D
<knome> yep
<knome> but otoh, i would say i don't really use gmb as-is
<pleia2> it's just hard because vlc doesn't really work for us
<knome> i've hacked in a lot of custom stuff
<knome> i know
<knome> but parole is great
<knome> i'm happy with it, really
<pleia2> I love vlc, parole never plays things I want it to play by default
<pleia2> I think vlc ships with a bunch of codecs or something
<knome> if i could only use parole or vlc, i'd pick parole
<pleia2> I wouldn't
<knome> because i can watch the rest of the stuff elsewhere
<knome> i know
<pleia2> elsewhere?
<knome> i do hope that parole improves over time
<knome> like ps3
<pleia2> ah
<knome> i know that's not a real solution, but just to prove i would be happy without vlc
<knome> so...
<knome> another question about the survey results is if we want to publish all the data
<pleia2> I think we did say that the data would be available to the xubuntu team
<pleia2> I can't remember exact wording though
<knome> i'm thinking we should make some kind of report available in static.x.o
<knome> like, a very general, anonymous one
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> then maybe a blog article highlighting some of the interesting finds
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> so i know we already discussed it for some time, but would you have some time to over it nowish?
<pleia2> no, I have to go grocery shopping now
<knome> aha
<knome> have fun there then :)
<pleia2> haha
<pleia2> no food in my home post travel
<knome> heh
<pleia2> anwyay, bbiab
<knome> no surprise
<knome> oki
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-08
<bluesabre> Unit193: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6wjZFXVZU&feature=youtu.be
<knome> cool
<micahg> back
<bluesabre> hey micahg 
<micahg> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<micahg> ok, trying to finish up the reviews quickly
<micahg> thanks for the blueman upload
<bluesabre> np
<bluesabre> been home all day, in front of my computer for 14 hours so far
<bluesabre> might be time for a break
<micahg> wow, I haven't been that fortunate :)
<bluesabre> I'd say I haven't been that fortunate either, considering everything else I could have been doing ;)
<knome> micahg, good luck with the stuff and please remember to update the work items once you complete them
<knome> be back tomorrow
<knome> nighty
<bluesabre> night all
<yakamo> hello
<yakamo> does xubuntu use systemd?
<micahg> We're using whichever init system Ubuntu is
<micahg> so, for 14.04, no; for 15.10, yes
 * micahg didn't realize before that comments on MRs now need to be saved...
<yakamo> micahg: thanks thats good to know
<yakamo> i thought ubuntu had systemd for a few years
<micahg> in the repo, not as default init
<yakamo> ah ok
<yakamo> well im gona have to try out xubuntu i think
<micahg> it has a nice balance between functional and keeping out of the way IMHO
<yakamo> im originally a Debian user
<yakamo> im used to building up a custom system
<yakamo> but im fed up with that and just want to get to work on my projects these days
<micahg> two review down, one to go
<micahg> s/review/reviews/
<SwissBot> micahg meant: "two reviews down, one to go"
<yakamo> what are you reviewing
<micahg> Merge requests to start building a xubuntu core image
<yakamo> ah ok
<yakamo> so lots to do then
<micahg> yeah, I have a backlog about a mile long ;)
<yakamo> result is worth it
<micahg> oh, I don't have much with producing Xubuntu itself anymore unfortunately, here and there I help with uploads and review and am an avid user, here's the wiki with project leads listed, they do a lot more than I do for Xubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Contact, there are many others that help as well 
<yakamo> every bit counts though
<yakamo> dam i should get some sleep its way late
<micahg> ok, reviews done
<krytarik> micahg: Thanks!
<micahg> you're welcome
<ochosi> bluesabre: weeeeeird fix for parole dying on quitting, maybe the same is true for gmusicbrowser (which started to do that last cycle)
<ochosi> bluesabre: anyway, still good you found it and all
<ochosi> huge thumbs up for that
 * ochosi is off for work
<slickymasterWork> knome, saw your ping in the logs
<slickymasterWork> I'll test it tonight
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> knome: I have one more request for the tracker (may or may not be related)... can we show historical data for image sizes?
<bluesabre> current releases and running dev cycle
<bluesabre> unless there is already a place that does that, ofc
<knome> bluesabre, where do i get that data?
<knome> micahg, thanks! did you have time to peek at the packageset issue?
<bluesabre> hey knome 
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> um, hey knome
<knome> :D :D
<knome> says he reluctacntly
<knome> -c
 * bluesabre doesn't know what micahg did
<knome> Unit193: do you know what micahg reviewed? :P
<knome> Unit193, and what effects that has on our blueprints...
<bluesabre> found the mps on the dev blueprint (where I should have looked)
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core/+merge/267879
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/livecd-rootfs/xubuntu-core/+merge/267880
<bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/ubuntu-cdimage/xubuntu-core/+merge/268167
<bluesabre> sounds like Unit193 only needs to make a few changes
<knome> Unit193, do you have a clear idea where to go next with these?
<bluesabre> so that's good
<bluesabre> knome: as for image data, could potentially parse cdimage... though I can imagine that to be crap
<knome> yes, that's the "obvious" way
<knome> but of course, if there was a more elegant way...
<knome> at least the path is always same
<knome> btw, we should poke people to change our target size
<knome> bluesabre, would you like to do that on -release?
<bluesabre> I can do that
<bluesabre> what target size do we want to request?
<bluesabre> (we're currently over 1G)
<knome> i don't think it matters too much, i was thinking whether 1.5G is an insane target (since there aren't really devices of that size)
<knome> if we want to target a specific device, then it could be 2G
<knome> but it could just as well be 1.5G...
<knome> as long as we don't get the warnings
<knome> i mean for the real target size we should likely have a discussion with the team
<knome> but i'd rather just dodge the bullets now ASAP
<knome> brb
<knome> actually, bbiab
<knome> ok, back
<bluesabre> gotta head to work, bbl
<flocculant> didn't notice change in icons on logout dialogue 
<flocculant> or rather - didn't before - have now or I'd not have commented :D
<knome> hey cyphermox, we'll need an upload for ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu - i've also merged ubuntu-specific stuff there, so they'll want it too :)
<cyphermox> yup, I told GunnarHj I'd do an upload today, still mean to
<knome> thanks!
<cyphermox> just getting stuff together for other things before I can get to the slideshow
<cyphermox> knome: apparently harald sitter uploaded it an hour ago.
<knome> oh great!
<knome> nice guy, good work
<flocculant> knome: are we supposed to have ubuntu login icons? 
<knome> flocculant, what on earth ARE "ubuntu login icons" ?
<flocculant> hang on 
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/PE73gtQ.png
<flocculant> they've turned up recently as far as I can tell 
<knome> flocculant, used by default?
<flocculant> also don't remember ubuntu mono either
<flocculant> seems so for the logout dialogue
<knome> aha
<knome> well for your question, no, i don't think we are supposed to have them
<knome> maybe bluesabre can fix that
<knome> O:)
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/HCs0l3h.png
<knome> heh.
<knome> that's not the worst thing, but it's not very pretty either..
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> dependency of adwaita I think
<flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12316063/
<knome> o.O
<knome> why is THAT even in our task?
<flocculant> oh hang on ... 
<flocculant> that might be from me not live :D
<knome> no, the task says xubuntu-desktop
<knome> but maybe it's because it's gnome default
<knome> maybe that is a dependency for something else we want to have
<flocculant> adwaita? 
<knome> mm.
<flocculant> evince-gtk is one
<knome> right
<flocculant> bit mank - don't much like the 'zz' on hibernate 
<flocculant> not that I see that anywhere but in vm :p
<knome> heh
<flocculant> thought I was seeing things for a minute tbh :)
<flocculant> I guess if that's the worse thing we need to worry about atm then we're not doing too badly
<knome> we're definitely doing pretty good
<flocculant> yep 
<knome> another bug fix released thanks to bluesabre and cyphermox 
<knome> and with that, another work item too
<knome> and since micah reviewed the patches yesterday, one item done and three more can progress
<knome> and one of yours might get unblocked soon
<flocculant> yep - been watching those discussions ;)
 * knome has been updating the blueprints
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> should see feh soon? 
<knome> next build
<flocculant> \o/ 
<knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1437180/comments/13
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1437180 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Medium,Fix released]
<knome> btw, did you have anything specific you wanted us to correlate in the survey results?
<flocculant> iirc was mostly interested in office/media
<knome> they were both around 20-25%
<knome> but office was with abiword and gnumeric
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> ~25% used defaults? 
<flocculant> assuming so
<knome> yep
<knome> but what i was actually asking
<knome> is if you wanted me to correlate that with something
<flocculant> /usr/lib/gcc is enormously bigger in wily than trusty 
<knome> eg. there was ~70% percent who said they're power users
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> not sure 
<knome> so should we check how much of the *non-power-users* were happy with the default selection?
<flocculant> I'd say so - yes
<knome> heh, yeah...
<knome> so if you have other similar correlations you'd like to see - just tell me and i'll dig that information up
<flocculant> as long as our baseline is what I assume - power user will go meh and find/install what they want 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> I think to my mind - the correlations we should work from as a base are the non-power user
<knome> so get all results with only non-power-users?
<flocculant> 33MB in trusty, 410 in wily :p
<knome> also, what about the small amount that told others maintain their computer?
<knome> should we also leave them out?
<flocculant> I would 
<knome> ok
<flocculant> I would assume that 'they' are power users
<flocculant> at least more powered up than those repsonding :)
<flocculant> not that I've any idea what we'd do if we decided something about gmb 
<knome> heh
<knome> media is more than just gmb though
<flocculant> of course
<flocculant> should I report the icon issue so there's something as a record? 
<knome> sure
<flocculant> I'll do it from the daily - no fighting with apport and ppa's then :p
<knome> heh
<flocculant> mmm - what package shall I report it against? 
<knome> no idea...
<knome> are they used after installing as well?
<knome> or just at installation?
<flocculant> not sure - I'll install it 
<knome> :)
<knome> if only at installation, then probably ubiquity
<flocculant> mostly just been checking the image works lately
<flocculant> that said I do see the same on my machine too 
<flocculant> but that's had all sorts done and installed on it 
<flocculant> knome: nope - installed as well 
<knome> mhm
<knome> sounds like packaging
<knome> or sth like that
<knome> xubuntu-artwork? :P
<flocculant> ok 
<flocculant> drums fingers waiting for launchpad ... 
<flocculant> bug 1493547
<ubottu> bug 1493547 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Login icon set used for dialogue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1493547
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ 
<flocculant> I shall see what gets said in the morning 
<flocculant> night 
<krytarik> flocculant: That it's actually elementary Xfce. :D
<krytarik> Night though.
<knome> slickymaster, if you link to the PDFs from each page, then you can't really do the paragraph
<slickymaster> can't a sort of a header, or footer, note be added to the xml knome?
<knome> sure, we can do the links in the header or footer, but there are visual issues with that
<knome> in the header, it wouldn't look very good with a long text
<knome> and in the footer area we already have the navigation icons
<knome> would it appear before or after that?
<knome> and in the footer, i think it's relatively hidden...
<knome> we don't even know how many people would rather use a PDF than the html version
<slickymaster> yeah, I'm not taking the aesthetics aspect of the solution in consideration
<slickymaster> the footer option is to forget, due to the navigation icons
<knome> also, if people link to a specific section to the docs, why couldn't the mention there is a PDF version available as well?
<knome> when i point people to the docs, i mention they are also available from the menu
<knome> and if they go to the menu and see the docs, they will end up on the front page with the PDF mention
<knome> or in other words, are we really overthinking the possibility that somebody might "miss out" on the PDF?
<slickymaster> no the idea was to give people the chance of getting 'partial' PDFs id wanted
<knome> no, you can't get a partial PDF
<knome> it would always be the full PDF
<knome> unless we started exporting per-chapter PDF's but ugh, what a mess
<slickymaster> hmm, in that case I misunderstood it
<slickymaster> being that the case, there's no need to discuss it
<knome> krytarik, ha! i win!
<slickymaster> lol
<ochosi> late evening all
<knome> hello ochosi
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah, those themes really shouldn't be installed. we don't need them at all
<slickymaster> hi ochosi 
<knome> ochosi, has the baby sang "i dress up in women's clothing, like my dear pa-pa" yet?
<knome> or - have you sang that to the baby :P
<knome> sung?
<knome> whateva
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> not yet
<knome> aha! that does imply that you will sing it together
<knome> ...and that implies you are dressing up in women's clothing
<ochosi> ofc
<knome> ok, now that this discussion is publicly logged and archived, let's move on...
<ochosi> ineed
<ochosi> indeed
<knome> what do youneed?
<ochosi> i like how the tracker looks
<ochosi> good progress
<knome> yep
<knome> totally
<knome> now if only Unit193 got his act together and did the changes micahg asked in his reviews
<ochosi> :>
<ochosi> yeah, where's that one hiding i wonder...
<knome> then bluesabre could help Unit193 with the sponsoring stuff and then they could ask flocculant to test the core ISO
<knome> and maybe krytarik could help with updating his bits and also prod slickymaster to help with testing
<knome> so pleia2 could write a blog article about it
<ochosi> nice dependency chain
<slickymaster> btw knome we still have the FAQ content to think about
<ochosi> btw, new greybird pull request
<knome> ochosi, and nice pinging! :P
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> slickymaster, yeah...
<bluesabre> evening all
 * knome is the summoner
<slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> knome: please check that one out, it looks very promising
<ochosi> https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/pull/104
 * knome checks
<ochosi> if you can, pls test
<ochosi> it's fairly easy, just clone to $somedir, then create ~/.themes/Greybird-a11y and ln -s $somedir/xfwm4 to Greybird-a11y
<knome> i'll put that on my "mental" list for later this week
<ochosi> oh
<ochosi> i'll likely merge it today
<knome> haha
<knome> ok
<ochosi> i don't have many free evenings/hours
<ochosi> so i have to be fairly efficient if i wanna get that last workitem done
<knome> it looks fine to me in the github diff
<ochosi> in context: http://i.imgur.com/PFFc2vR.png
<knome> yep
<micahg> knome: no, not yet, that's a little more complicated I htink
<knome> micahg, what are you referring to?
<micahg> packageset issue
<knome> ok
<ochosi> well frankly we should contact whoever pulled in orion to kubuntu and ask them to "return" it to us
<ochosi> or we can also kick it out of shimmer themes
<ochosi> it's not maintained anymore (by us, or at all, afaik
<ochosi> so there are some easy solutions
<knome> what was the package through which it got pulled to kubuntu again?
<knome> or the chain
<micahg> that's not it, the logic around kubuntu is still special cased, where I think it maybe shouldn't be anymore, I still need to dig into it
<ochosi> right, but can't we just ask nicely?
<ochosi> i mean there must be a responsible person
<knome> i could ask a kubuntu person if i had the details...
<ochosi> bluesabre: would you be ok with adding another xfwm4 theme to the greybird build? we would need Greybird-a11y to show up as a separate xfwm4 theme like Greybird_compact
<knome> that would be nice of us, now that we actually have such
<bluesabre> ochosi: that's easy to do
<bluesabre> as long as you give me the new theme before thursday ;)
<knome> bluesabre, notice that you might need sponsoring :P
<ochosi> bluesabre: i can finalize this now
<knome> yay
<bluesabre> knome: ah, good point
<bluesabre> so today would be good
<bluesabre> then micahg might be able to sponsor for me soon
<bluesabre> ochosi: the upstream logout icon caught flocculant off guard since its orange: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/1493547
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1493547 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu Login icon set used for dialogue" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> it's a nice one, i personally like it
<ochosi> but the restart one looks a bit dusty next to it
<ochosi> i'll probably have to redo that one for 16.04
<ochosi> bluesabre: would i create much work for you if i renamed the xfwm4_compact folder to xfwm4-compact?
<ochosi> no idea why i ever used an underscore there
<bluesabre> ochosi: go ahead
<ochosi> k, thanks
<knome> ochosi, with all of your dashitis, good variety...
<ochosi> hey, i love my dash-itis
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, it's all merged
<ochosi> wanna take a brief look before i tag a new release?
<bluesabre> ochosi: checking it
<ochosi> ty
<bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, that should be fine
<bluesabre> just gotta update wily and daily packaging
<ochosi> i was able to close the currently oldest greybird issue \o/
<ochosi> (single px borders are unusable for resizing)
<bluesabre> woot
<ochosi> btw, tagging elementary-xfce was a bit superfluous unless we change our policy there to always tag a new release when we upload
<ochosi> so far we basically just pushed snapshots of it
<ochosi> and i released independently
<ochosi> but yeah, it's a sort of constant rolling release thingy
<bluesabre> ochosi: you said to tag a new release
<ochosi> oh, i meant of xubuntu-artwork :>
<ochosi> but nvm, i really have no idea when it would be sane to tag a new icon theme release
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> +icon, +release number
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, so tagging greybird now...
<ochosi> unless you needed anything else there
<bluesabre> ochosi: go ahead
<ochosi> there you go: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v1.6.2
<bluesabre> woot
<ochosi> knome: and another workitem done
<ochosi> and yay, artwork is the first blueprint to be totally done
<knome> :)
<knome> it's often been like that
<ochosi> ofc
<ochosi> we're the most efficient team ;
<ochosi> )
 * knome high fives ochosi 
 * ochosi high fives back
<knome> oops, i missed
<knome> hope that didn't hurt your nose too much
<knome> the silliest thing is when high fives and "gang greetings" go wrong
<knome> it looks so silly and embarrassing at the same time
<bluesabre> ochosi: so, what do you want the theme to be called?
<bluesabre> greybird-a11y?
<knome> bluesabre, seans-secret-lab
<bluesabre> knome: OK
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> i thought we would call it that
<ochosi> but if you have a friendlier name in mind, i don't mind
<knome> greybird-accessibility isn't bad either
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> a11y is not a very accessible shorthand
<bluesabre> grostrich?
<knome> because really, is it accessible to say "a11y"
<knome> heh, yes
<knome> gal-blatter-os
<ochosi> bluesabre: i like that :D
<ochosi> but let's go with Greybird-accessiblity ;)
<knome> -blity?!
<knome> noess
<bluesabre> a11y might be better
<bluesabre> r not
 * bluesabre doesn't know
<ochosi> ok ok, accessibility
<bluesabre> accessibility it is
<ochosi> yeah, it's longer but more readable
<bluesabre> assessability
<knome> you don't usually look at that list for too long
<ochosi> imo we should add a tab to the accessibility dialog "appearance"
<ochosi> and then offer a few shortcuts there
<knome> add that as a work item for 16.04
<knome> not many told they use the a11y features of xubuntu btw
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> in a way that's awesome that they told they do
<knome> because i don't even know that those features are!
<knome> *what
<ochosi> yeah
<bluesabre> are the survey results available?
<knome> yes and no
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> no public announcement is made yet
<bluesabre> will wait
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> but if you want, i can link you to the google doc
<knome> i'll be doing the analysis for the data some day this week most likely
<knome> or at latest next week
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> alrighty folks
<ochosi> this was a quick visit, but i gotta head to bed now
<knome> good night :)
<bluesabre> night ochosi 
<ochosi> night y'all and ttyl ;)
<slickymaster> nighty night ocx
<slickymaster> damn autocompletion
<knome> hah?
<slickymaster> have a good one ochosi 
<knome> is "ocx" on your autocomplete list?
<slickymaster> most probably, but then again it just came out
<knome> :P
<slickymaster> either that or I'm going nuts
<bluesabre> slackymister
<knome> D:
<bluesabre> :D
<slickymaster> better that than slimmy bluesabre 
<bluesabre> +1
<knome> i have another variant of the nick but that's not suitable for family-friendly channels.
<slickymaster> and for me I presume :P
 * drc likes greybird-a11y...as an old fart should :)
<drc> no need to use "default" now.
<drc> nope...-a11y makes windows just a few pixels too tall to quarter the desktop :(
<drc> The window size I want, I mean.  
<drc> But I still like it :(
<bluesabre> that is quite nice
<knome> what again...
<bluesabre> oh
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> he's back
<knome> :D
<bluesabre> :p
<knome> hahah
<knome> apparently there's something more going wrong
<bluesabre> a11y theme is nice
<slickymaster> it was quite a fall
<knome> my home internet dropped for a few mins a moment ago
<knome> now it also affected the shell
<slickymaster> not just your's knome, astraljava's also
<knome> yes, we share the shell provider
<slickymaster> oh ok
<knome> so it does make sense..
<slickymaster> á»¹eaps
<knome> krytarik, did this for you while i was waiting to get back to IRC: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/wily/revision/426
<knome> you all should have seen how it affected #ubuntu-fi*
<knome> people are still joining back
<krytarik> knome: Nice! Looks proper. :)
<knome> thanks
<bluesabre> micahg: would you be interested in sponsoring shimmer-themes to wily from my sponsoring ppa? https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> ooh, fancy, sponsoring ppa
 * bluesabre likes the finer things in life, like ppas
<knome> why did i read "bluesabre likes to finger things..."
<bluesabre> because knome is inappropriate and silly
<slickymaster> you are incorrigible knome 
<knome> now now, fingering doesn't always mean inappropriate things
<bluesabre> ... nobody decides to take that any further
<bluesabre> ... but everyone watches and waits for somebody
<bluesabre> D:
<knome> nope.
<knome> (or maybe in a PM)
<bluesabre> lol
<micahg> bluesabre: sure, but a bit later
<bluesabre> micahg: thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-09
<knome> time to hit the bed
<knome> nighty!
<slickymaster> bighty night knome 
<bluesabre> yay, all bugs fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch
<bluesabre> now to add some sample layouts
<bluesabre> added some sample layouts to https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xfpanel-switch-dev/xfpanel-switch/trunk/revision/25
<bluesabre> if somebody wants to test it out by tomorrow evening, that'd be awesome ;)
<bluesabre> bzr branch lp:xfpanel-switch; cd xfpanel-switch; ./configure; make; sudo make install; xfpanel-switch
<jcjordyn120> hello
<drc> world
<jcjordyn120> i have a idea on the ubiquitty installer, I would like to be able to specify multible mount points on the custom partition screen
<bluesabre> jcjordyn120: we don't maintain ubiquity, you'll want to reach out on #ubuntu-devel
<drc> IIRC, the installer is solely a Ubuntu project, you'd probably do better on #ubuntu-installer.
<bluesabre> even better ^
<jcjordyn120> oh okay
<flocculant> morning 
<flocculant> bluesabre: yes - the orange logout completely caught me offguard ... swiftly followed by the zz's on the hibernate one :p
<flocculant> bluesabre: as soon as I see xfpanel change I'll check it
<knome> slickymasterWork, we should take it here...
<knome> so,
<knome> splitting the package has its merits
<knome> but it's not worth it
<slickymasterWork> yeah, you're right about -devel :P
<knome> because then flavors would need to track changes to the core
<knome> well actually
<knome> depends how it's built...
<knome> it's over the top of my head anyway how that would work with one upstream
<slickymasterWork> the way I see it, there are no obvious and worthy gains in splitting 
<knome> nope
<knome> there is that one thing:
<knome> each flavor could have upload rights to their own package
<knome> but that would just mean we'd need even more updates per cycle
<slickymasterWork> yes
<knome> since there even isn't one uploader per flavor, that'd just mean more sponsored uploads as well
<slickymasterWork> it's odd though, how just someone of the -docs team bother to answer the email
<slickymasterWork> no news from any of the flavors
 * knome shrugs
<knome> in a way, i'm not surprised at all..
<knome> partly because there is obviously a huge amount of uninteresting email
<knome> and partly because... well, you know, sometimes you just don't care :P
<slickymasterWork> or because they probably don't think ubiquity has such a relevancy
<knome> yeah, i don't know
<slickymasterWork> yes, which also makes think of something. if we went to a split solution, how would the maintenance of that package would end
<knome> heh
<slickymasterWork> I mean, not worrying about 'ours'
<knome> it would mean that others were maintained better than others
<slickymasterWork> yeah, but the all ubuntu ecosystem image would certainly suffer from that
<knome> tbe,
<knome> looking at the mailing list archives
<knome> not all mailing list have got it
<knome> well, meaning that it's likely sitting in the moderation queue
<slickymasterWork> odd, I believe I got the bouncers mail from each
<slickymasterWork> oh yeah
<slickymasterWork> that maybe
<knome> for example, there is no trace of the message on ubuntu-devel
<slickymasterWork> but since gunnar answered CCing ubuntu-devel (and I'm assuming his email not blocked there) somehow the email allready went through 
<knome> right, actually now i see your mail too
<knome> either i didn't just see it before or somebody literally just approved it
<slickymasterWork> no Murphy's law there :)
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> Added Xubuntu Classic and Modern layouts for xfpanel-switch
<bluesabre> current layouts: https://imgur.com/a/FbsEe
<slickymasterWork> fancy bluesabre 
 * bluesabre bows
<bluesabre> should have a new release tonight.  will upload that with the new layouts once I work out the final bugs
<slickymasterWork> great \o/
 * bluesabre is tempted to add that (layouts) to the artwork bp to undo ochosi's victory cheer
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<slickymasterWork> hf bluesabre 
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, I pulled and compiled your version of xfpanel-switch but it seems to have a different problem now.
<jjfrv8> Regardless of what kind of changes I make to the panel, when I save and then restore, it always reverts back to the default panel.
<jjfrv8> Switching among all of the sample layouts works fine, but restoring a custom, saved panel always restores the default panel instead.
<jjfrv8> Tried it on two different machines. Hope I'm not doing something stupid.
<slickymasterWork> mr krytarik and mr dkessel -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/wily/+pots/desktop-guide/de/+translate?show=untranslated
<slickymasterWork> mr knome -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/wily/+pots/desktop-guide/fi/+translate?show=untranslated
<slickymasterWork> GridCube -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/wily/+pots/desktop-guide/es/+translate?show=untranslated
<slickymasterWork> :)
<GridCube> passing it to mrtulias slickymasterWork :D he has done all translations lately and recently got into the translation team so he doesnt need to be aproved
<slickymasterWork> great
<slickymasterWork> thanks for that GridCube 
<GridCube> :)
<slickymasterWork> krytarik, knome, new wily box with today's image, here's the error I'm getting when building locally the documentation:
<slickymasterWork> http://pastebin.com/nQQnH8Ga
<krytarik> slickymasterWork: That all?
<slickymasterWork> my first ping or the second one?
<krytarik> Second.
<slickymasterWork> yeaps, that's all it spit out
<slickymasterWork> errors that is
<krytarik> slickymasterWork: Sure you have all build depends installed?
<slickymasterWork> yes, bzr, xsltproc docbook-xsl and fop
<slickymasterWork> are there any others I'm not aware of?
<slickymasterWork> anyway it didn't nag about any dependency issues
<slickymasterWork> and it's only giving the english language
<slickymasterWork> neither Deutsch, espaÃ±ol, suomi, franÃ§ais and portuguÃªs languages are available, both html and pdf
<krytarik> slickymasterWork: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/wily/view/head:/debian/control :P
<slickymasterWork> now he tells me :P
<slickymasterWork> ok krytarik, going to install the missing ones so you can deal with my first ping :P
<krytarik> lol
<knome> slickymasterWork, pushed new revision with your fix
<knome> slickymasterWork, also, if you translated the pdf link stuff, you have to translate it again now :P
<slickymasterWork> great, thanks for the first
<slickymasterWork> not so thanks for the later :P
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<knome> that's what you get for being too motivated
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> wife is currently reading a book called "creative lazyness"
<knome> would work for you too..
<slickymasterWork> lol, I bet I'd love to see it... in finnish 
<knome> yep
<davmor2> If you're that lazy that you need to read a book you'll never finish it anyway right
<flocculant> if you're that lazy - you'd want an audiobook ... 
<flocculant> translated obviously :p
<davmor2> man then you got to listen to it and everything
<flocculant> ha ha 
<ochosi> bluesabre: awesome work on the layouts! i presume you'll keep those screenshots around for the release announcement ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, nice work on the bugfixes! and actually i think the presets we're shipping with this release are good enough. it's ok to ship more or work on that for the next release (i'm still somewhat surprised how we managed to actually finalize xfpanel-switch for 15.10)
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, just so you can have some fun i just pushed a more consistent restart icon for our logout dialog (and so that flocculant is even more confused about that ;))
<ochosi> bluesabre: and just to tease you, i pushed a better shutdown icon too... :>
<ochosi> (only hibernate and suspend to go)
<bluesabre> ochosi: nice
<bluesabre> planning to have them done tonight for one last upload?
<bluesabre> ochosi: I'll make better screenshots for the release announcement
<knome> ochosi, btw, jjfrv8 is waiting you to review the thunar docs
<ochosi> bluesabre: not sure i can make hibernate and suspend in time
<knome> ochosi, you have the ideas for those?
<knome> ochosi, or do you just plan to "refresh" the current style
<bluesabre> ochosi: cool, np. I'll upload whatever is up tomorrow morning before I go to work
 * knome wonders where Unit193 is lurking
<ochosi> knome: not really, no. i think the suspend icon is sorta ok (it's a clock)
<ochosi> the hibernate icon is still the old clock style
<knome> Unit193, anything new from alessio or Corsac?
<bluesabre> gotta run again, bbabl
<knome> Unit193, have you done the changes m requested in the reviews?
<knome> Unit193, any news about the packageset application process?
<bluesabre> knome really likes green bars
<bluesabre> running out
<knome> ;)
<knome> hf bluesabre 
<Unit193> Nope, Nope, Nope.
<knome> Unit193, let's change the middle nope
<knome> :P
<Unit193> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~unit193/debian-cd/xubuntu-core/+merge/267879 I disagree.
<Unit193> Unless you think that bluesabre and you want to create two sets of release notes, I doubt it though.
<knome> i don't. we can simply mention that -core is different
<Unit193> Yep.
<knome> the question can be revisited for 16.04 anyway.
<knome> for now, i think it would just make sense to get things rolling.
<knome> then iterate with it
<bluesabre> +1
<Unit193> How do I  get rebase -i  with bzr?
 * bluesabre does not know
<knome> from http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/beta/en/user-guide/adv_merging.html: "Rebasing is supported in Bazaar by the rebase command provided by the rebase plugin."
<Unit193> Oops.
<Unit193> Otherwise, they're already subscribed they just haven't commented.
<Unit193> knome: â
<knome> they?
<krytarik> knome: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+members
<knome> aha.
<knome> i would still do the changes m suggested
<Unit193> Most have been.
<knome> Unit193, have you resubmitted the proposals?
<knome> (i'm too lazy to check)
<Unit193> s/resubmitted/updated/
<SwissBot> Unit193: You did something wrong... Try s/you/me/ or tell me "help sed"
<knome> well whatever the term is
<knome> if yes, why don't you poke people on u-devel or u-release?
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-10
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: try clicking on "current configuration" and then save
<bluesabre> flocculant, jjfrv8, ochosi: uploaded a new release of xfpanel-switch to xubuntu-staging. For some reason it displays preinstalled templates twice there, but seems to work otherwise. Please give it a shot when you have a chance so I can upload to wily tomorrow :)
<bluesabre> flocculant, jjfrv8, ochosi: release notes: https://launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/1.0/1.0.1
<bluesabre> need to get some sleep now.... night all!
<flocculant> bluesabre: tried the updated xfpanel-switch ... saved it(it assumed it was a copy of xubuntu modern apparently) then changed my panel about, tried to restore my panel
<flocculant> that didn't work - I ended up with a default panel at the top, with things I remove from default back again
<flocculant> things I add not there
<flocculant> but I no longer see the problems with closing dialogues and prompts
<flocculant> knome: on the tracker, bugs specifically - what's triggering something not to count, because at least one is expired/won't fix but shows as something to do :)
<Unit193> Logan: Re: #ubuntu.  I like you.
<Logan> I like myself too
<bluesabre> flocculant: can you try selecting "current configuration", then click save, change it up, and then restore?
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - that worked
<flocculant> what you doing about this time of the day ... 
<bluesabre> woke up to use the bathroom, made the mistake of looking at my laptop
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> back to bed, bbabl
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> oh, but what is happening with xfpanel-switch...
<flocculant> go to bed :D
<Unit193> ...bluesabre?
<bluesabre> current config > save: save new config, others > duplicate config
<bluesabre> last release didn't sort, so current was always the first item
<bluesabre> back to bed :D
<flocculant> shame it doesn't remember configs - have to reenter weather plugin configs
<bluesabre> flocculant: it remembers everything stored in the normal panel config location... guessing the weather plugin stores it somewhere else
<Unit193> panel/weather-29.rc
<bluesabre> suppose we can extend panel-switch for the next release with that support :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - just thought I'd say what I saw :)
<bluesabre> flocculant: much appreciated :)
<bluesabre> this is quickly turning out to be a pretty solid xubuntu release
<flocculant> yep sure is that :)
<bluesabre> apport (2.18.1-0ubuntu1) wily; urgency=medium
<bluesabre>   * etc/apport/crashdb.conf: Enable crash reports on Launchpad for wily.
<bluesabre>     Really late, sorry about that!
<bluesabre> nice
<flocculant> one of the things I do pretty much at the start
<bluesabre> flocculant: I'm going to go ahead and upload this xfpanel-switch release, and will try to take care of the few nagging bugs by the end of this weekend
<flocculant> ok - works for me 
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> or not
<bluesabre> xfpanel-switch not in packageset
 * bluesabre grumbles
<knome> ehehehe
<knome> :P
<knome> about time to poke a packageset wizard?
<bluesabre> i'll drop it into my ppa, poke micahg for an upload, and mail the DMB to get it added
<bluesabre> hopefully micahg can sponsor shimmer-themes today too
<flocculant> bluesabre: do bug 1385624 and bug 1332931 need to be on the tracker? 
<ubottu> bug 1385624 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "wrapper-2.0 crashed with SIGSEGV in strrchr()" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1385624
<ubottu> bug 1332931 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) ""Display configure screen settings and layout" window opens automatically every few seconds" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1332931
<knome> bluesabre, what about just asking people to add xfpanel-switch to our packageset?
<knome> bluesabre, i can't imagine it being a biggie.
<bluesabre> knome: can't, all requests have to go through dmb
<bluesabre> flocculant: sure, but probably not going to be able to fix that
<knome> ugh..
<knome> there was that mailing list for it
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - I'll leave them on there then - just seemed a bit daft to track expired or 14.04 things
<bluesabre> knome: yup
<bluesabre> devel-permissions
<bluesabre> writing the email now
<knome> flocculant, what was the bug that was still showing up even if invalid?
<flocculant> 1385624 - not invalid, marked won't fix/expired
 * knome checks
<knome> bug 1385624
<ubottu> bug 1385624 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "wrapper-2.0 crashed with SIGSEGV in strrchr()" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1385624
<knome> right, we aren't tracking that..
<flocculant> so why is it on the tracker
<bluesabre> knome: if micahg is not around, we can reach out to folks that have helped in the past to sponsor packages in https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring
<knome> flocculant, i mean, we aren't tracking those statuses..
<flocculant> oic :D
<knome> do we want to let things that are expired disappear?
<bluesabre> kiiiiinda
<knome> i mean, that's on organic status after all
<knome> but okay
<knome> i'll hack that in
<flocculant> another thing - if we've got bp for bugs - should we keep a 14.04 one that's seperate to wily (or x or y) 
<flocculant> not huge issues ofc - but nevertheless the non wily ones show up on tracker
<bluesabre> maybe have a parent bp xubuntu-bugs that links to current releases?
<knome> hmm
<flocculant> at the end of the day - adding to the bug bp is manual - so we could just not do it :)
<knome> ok, so i'm just not catching those bugs at all to the tracker now
<knome> with the newest change, that is
<knome> will be live when the cron runs the next time
<flocculant> now to stop QA showing on the tracker at all :D
<bluesabre> Logan: if you are bored, got some easy sponsorships you can do in https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring
<knome> huhu
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> flocculant, there we go
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<knome> no problem
<knome> happy to tweak the tracker to fit our needs
<flocculant> :)
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, oic, current config b4 save. Any chance current config could be the default selection?
<jjfrv8> Could be a gotcha, since two of us highly experienced guys made the same mistake :D
<GridCube> slickymasterWork: i'd like to present you to MrTulias :)
<GridCube> he has been translating to spanish for the past few releases and has recently been granted a psotion on the translator team
<krytarik> GridCube: Ooh, lovely!
<krytarik> Also, hi there, MrTulias.
<MrTulias> Hi
<knome> hello
<slickymasterWork> Hi MrTulias, GridCube 
<slickymasterWork> sorry, was afk due to work issues
<slickymasterWork> MrTulias, as I'm not sure you've already saw it, or if you receive our m/l for that matter, let me provide you some links
<slickymasterWork> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-September/010885.html
<slickymasterWork> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-August/010863.html
<slickymasterWork> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-July/010811.html
<slickymasterWork> please feel free to ping me here if you have any doubts or if you need any specific info
<MrTulias> Thanks. Yes, I get the message, I'm signed up to m / l
<slickymasterWork> great 
<flocculant> knome: if we assumed that when the new jenkins deal gets to work and that the output can be the same, could we add the results from that to the tracker
<flocculant> previously there was at least rss feeds out from it https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Ubiquity/view/Xubuntu/
<flocculant> just trying to think about "Methods of - reporting automated image testing results to -team"
<knome> we can totally bring in the results
<flocculant> let's hope that it's the same then :)
<Unit193> C/index.xml:69: element abstract: validity error
<Unit193> xi-pdf-files.xml:1: element section: validity error :
<knome> what?
<knome> that is totally outrageous
<bluesabre> jjfrv8: yeah, going to fix that with the next release (which I hope to have this weekend)
<bluesabre> micahg: if you get a chance, please upload shimmer-themes and xfpanel-switch in https://launchpad.net/~bluesabre/+archive/ubuntu/sponsoring
<knome> i'm off, see you tomorrow or sth :)
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-11
<micahg> bluesabre: yep, about to take a look
<micahg> bluesabre: since we're past feature freeze, does xfpanel-switch need an FFe?
<micahg> bluesabre: honestly, I think both packages need an FFe, they're new "features" for that class of package
<micahg> bluesabre: there are also quite a few lintian warnings for shimmer-themes, none fatal, but they should probably be fixed at some point (especially the SVGs with executable bit set)
<micahg> otherwise, packages are good to upload once approved by the release team
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - just so you're aware, updates is bring LO 1.5 in - also installing the galaxy style
<bluesabre> micahg: I wouldn't have imagined that either package had new features. xfpanel-switch added default layouts and shimmer-themes included a new theme... both artwork (but they did come up to UIF)
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah... wouldn't be an issue if the libreoffce packaging team would accept our patch... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1483914
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1483914 in LibreOffice Productivity Suite "libreoffice-style-elementary as alternate to libreoffice-style-human" [Medium,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> see comments 8 and 9
<bluesabre> suppose we'll need to push for that again
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - I'd read that a while back 
<bluesabre> micahg: created a pull request to fix Numix, https://github.com/shimmerproject/Numix/pull/249 so the executable bits should be resolved next Numix release
<bluesabre> flocculant: all the extra icons themes seem to be a present from evince-gtk
<bluesabre> it depends on adwaita-icon-theme, which depends on ubuntu-mono, which depends on humanity-icon-theme
<bluesabre> whyyyyy does a gui application depend on a specific icon theme D:
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> I guess it might even be more than that... trying to remove adwaita-icon-theme cripples xubuntu by removing most of our apps
<bluesabre> maybe we could make a xubuntu-icon-theme-adwaita-shim package of some sort... say it provides adwaita-icon-theme (since xubuntu-icon-theme can stand on its own)
<bluesabre> just a thought
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> micahg, is that (what I mentioned above) unheard of or frowned upon? My proposed xubuntu-icon-theme-adwaita-shim package would be an empty package that our icon theme recommends, provides and conflicts with adwaita-icon-theme so that we only require the one
<bluesabre> the shim package would depend on xubuntu-icon-theme so that the system could not be left in an icon-less state
<bluesabre> actually, thats dumb... pretty sure that's what provides is for, we could potentially just add that to the icon-theme
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'll probably take this offline and to the side
<bluesabre> gotta run
<knome> hf bluesabre 
<flocculant> cya bluesabre 
<flocculant> just so people are up to date - the efforts by others to get the image auto testing back are bearing fruit - there's hope it'll be running before the next beta
<pleia2> that's wonderful news :)
<flocculant> it surely is :)
<flocculant> knome is confident we can get the daily result on the tracker too - so it'll be easy for anyone to see where we stand 
<knome> of course i'm confident... especially if they provided us rss feeds :)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> with the rss feeds, it's almost a trivial task
<flocculant> I made that assumption :D
<knome> bluesabre, so... what kind of contributions can we expect from you this weekend? :)
<knome> bluesabre, shouldn't bug 1388922 be just landed from upstream?
<ubottu> bug 1388922 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "xdg-open doesn't properly detect Xfce/Xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1388922
<knome> bluesabre, or to be exact, its fix :P
<knome> jjfrv8_, what kind of review are you expecting for the thunar docs, btw? just making sure they are correct, or something else?
<knome> because if only the former, we can delegate that stuff to somebody else than the project lead :)
<knome> for anybody interested, one article for the FAQ on the website could be about settings
<knome> particularly, many people seem to be wondering about theme rendering in qt apps
<bluesabre> knome: bug fixes
<bluesabre> I'll take a look at that xdg-open bug.. and folks have been poking me endlessly to fix magnet links in exo
<bluesabre> so new exo release
<bluesabre> going to see what I can do about iso size as well
<knome> can't see anything about exo in the blueprints :P
<knome> Unit193, did you ping people about the core MP's already?
<bluesabre> knome: will add later
<bluesabre> gotta run
<knome> hf
<knome> bluesabre, ergh, in catfish, what am i supposed to do with the translatable string "document-open-recent-symbolic" ?
<knome> but anyway, translations done for everything mentioned at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Documentation
<Unit193> Psst, docs still don't validate.
<knome> i don't know what i should do to them
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-12
<Unit193> make test
<knome> oh right, abstract doesn't allow a section child.
<knome> (i saw your message from earlier)
<knome> now that is... unfortunate.
<knome> while it doesn't validate, it builds, so it's not a high priority item
<knome> i'll think of something at some point.
<Unit193> Sure, but you won't be able to upload 'xubuntu-docs', soo. :D
<knome> nope.
<knome> we'll need an upload for the translations anyway
<knome> and that can't happen now
<knome> so i'll have time
<knome> if it rolls over w+1, then it does
<knome> at the core, we might even want to change more things around
<knome> eg. i'm not sure if the abstract is the right place for this information
<knome> instead, it might be better inside another tag
<knome> also because the abstract looks a bit weird for the pdf
<knome> or at least it's not perfect
<jjfrv8> knome, correctness is part of it, certainly.  But also more subjective stuff, like did I include all of the new features and give them the right amount of emphasis?
<jjfrv8> I also covered the menus in more detail than the old version.  Too much?
<jjfrv8> I'm also unsure of how to handle the plugins. Keep the same ones and as separate sections? Or fold them into Working with Files and Folders?
<knome> jjfrv8, right. i'm sure other people will be able to help with that too :)
<knome> i'll investigate... and of course, we can always get the final sign-off by simon
<jjfrv8> okay by me
<knome> but i'm relatively sure - without seeing the new docs - that your judgement is good and it's all ok :)
<jjfrv8> bad assumption :)
<knome> heh
<knome> we'll see!
<knome> ok, time to go to bed
<knome> nighty!
<flocculant> just in case anyone tries the daily - don't bother ... bug 1495017
<ubottu> bug 1495017 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with dbus.exceptions" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1495017
<flocculant> jjfrv8: you can ignore that :D
<ochosi> meh, remote went offline. please re-ping in case i missed something
<knome> 05:35  bluesabre: flocculant, jjfrv8, ochosi: uploaded a new release of  xfpanel-switch to xubuntu-staging. For some reason it displays  preinstalled templates twice there, but seems to work otherwise.  Please give it a shot when you have a chance so I can upload to wily  tomorrow :)
<knome> 05:36  bluesabre: flocculant, jjfrv8, ochosi: release notes:  https://launchpad.net/xfpanel-switch/1.0/1.0.1
<knome> 09:24  flocculant: bluesabre ochosi - just so you're aware, updates is bring LO  1.5 in - also installing the galaxy style
<knome> that's my lastlog after you said something
<ochosi> k thanks
<knome> np
<knome> off for now, ttyl
#xubuntu-devel 2015-09-13
<bluesabre> knome: that's an icon, no reason it should be marked as translatable
<bluesabre> will fix that
<max12345> hello, I was wondering just how it's decided what software is on distros by default.
<flocculant> max12345: this is where *we* start https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Seeds_.26_Composition
<max12345> flocculant: ok that's about what I was looking for. Thank you! Can I petition you somewhere to overthink having firefox as default? Because I'd prefer one of the forks after what they've been doing over the last years.
<flocculant> well, there is a way to do that - try and find the necessary 
<flocculant> because it's not as simple as you saying 'hey can we do this instead?' ;)
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Inxi
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer
<flocculant> are two specs - you'd need to do something similar for what you want
<flocculant> but - the earliest would be for the X cycle 
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument covers the basic
<max12345> ok... I'll look into it. Thanks again!
<Unit193> max12345: Has to be in the repos, and none are.
<max12345> Unit193: hm, I can see how that's a problem.
<knome> bluesabre, i knew that, i was just kind of letting you know... :P
<jjfrv8> flocculant, fyi, I installed wily on my main desktop so I can do some realistic app testing now.
<jjfrv8> Restoring my panel after the install with xfpanel-switch worked like a charm :)
<jjfrv8> I did have a heck of a time with the install, though. Monitors would go blank and machine would lock up either during install or shortly after reboot.
<jjfrv8> It looks like the nouveau drivers were causing my gpu to overheat. Once I managed to get the nvidia driver installed, temp came down and all was well.
<jjfrv8> Does that sound possible?
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> I did have some oddities at cycle start with gpu - mine was the other way around though - been using nouveau :)
<flocculant> Not got more than 1 monitor to check that simply here atm
<flocculant> and yes - the panel switch tool is \o/ 
<jjfrv8> yup
<flocculant> excecpting issue noted previously - but that's like complaining that the car's not fast enough when you've previously used a horse :D
<jjfrv8> hehe
<flocculant> jjfrv8: did you install today? 
<flocculant> is the image fixed - not checked yet ... 
<flocculant> will do that now 
<jjfrv8> sorry, no. I started with yesterday's. That bombed. Tried the 11th, started having the lockups. Went back to beta1 before figuring out driver issue.
<flocculant> :(
<flocculant> blimey - 40% difference in images between yesterday and now 
<flocculant> and it's the weekend so obviously not fixed - I'm an idjit
<bluesabre> jjfrv8, flocculant: so the nvidia drivers are working for you guys?
<bluesabre> if I try to use any of the nvidia drivers in wily, I can't get anything to display and have to drop to T1 to uninstall
<jjfrv8> bluesabre, aye, nvidia driver working here. I did find that the latest version has a different settings gui, with far fewer options.
<jjfrv8> so I downgraded to an older version.
<bluesabre> fun
<bluesabre> I'll need to try to report my issue then
<jjfrv8> bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: no - using nouveau 
<flocculant> bluesabre: had some bizarreness a while back - random white screen while on desktop 
 * bluesabre wants to merge xdg-utils, but there's so many ubuntu changes
<bluesabre> looks like most fixes have been upstreamed, so that's good at least
<knome> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: so what's the crack with parole - should it really be in 2 ppa's at different versions still? 
<bluesabre> flocculant: haven't had much of a chance to look yet, will try to get to that today
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - just wondering mostly - it tried to update today :)
<bluesabre> just uploaded a new xdg-utils to -staging... will take a bit to build but contains lots of fixes
<bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12398952/
<flocculant> knome: what's up with the tracker front page?
<flocculant> bluesabre: nice :)
<bluesabre> micahg: do you think there is anything I should add for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-utils/+bug/1495273 before subscribing the release team?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1495273 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please merge xdg-utils 1.1.0~rc3+git20150907-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> bluesabre: this nvidia issue you've got - does the machine use that optimus? 
<knome> flocculant, i'm doing the messin' around
<knome> flocculant, i'll land something cool tonight there, so just you wait ;)
<bluesabre> flocculant: yeah, I've got both nvidia and intel
<flocculant> bluesabre: then I've seen people with issues with that 
<flocculant> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-prime/+bugs?orderby=-id&start=0
<flocculant> knome: you need to set up a temp background so people don't think it's broken http://bit.ly/1NqwufZ
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> :)
<knome> okay, this newly prepared stuff should be ready to go
<flocculant> ... 
<knome> to the tracker, that is
<flocculant> I'll be sure to look tomorrow when I'm awake :)
<knome> yep
<knome> do that
<knome> i hit an unexpected wall, so figuring a way around that
<knome> but after that it's all out
<bluesabre> releasing things is hard... with the bad xfce certs the release tool dies half-way through
<knome> nie
<knome> nice too
<bluesabre> micahg: went ahead and subscribed the release team to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xdg-utils/+bug/1495273
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1495273 in xdg-utils (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Please merge xdg-utils 1.1.0~rc3+git20150907-1 from Debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<knome> http://tracker.xubuntu.org/#tab-details
<bluesabre> you mean the content that no longer seems to exist?
<knome> huh?
<knome> do a hard refresh...
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/fSRyol7.png
<knome> looks like you don't have js enabled
<bluesabre> syntax errror
<knome> ?:P
<bluesabre> function open_tab( first_load = false ) {
<astraljava> Works For Meâ¢
<knome> weird, because everything looks ok to me
<bluesabre> chrome no likey
<knome> i wonder why...
<astraljava> ...on Chrome, too.
<knome> hahah
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/J7C780J.png
<knome> bluesabre, you WILL want to double check the url too
<knome> you don't want #details, you want #tab-details
<knome> bluesabre, i haven't even touched that part...
<knome> bluesabre, it was always there
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/Ombp5df.png
 * knome double-checks with chrome
<knome> ok ok, chromium
<knome> yeah, i see that now as well
<knome> but it's weird
<knome> bluesabre, retry
<bluesabre> yay
<knome> bluesabre, comments plz?
<bluesabre> knome: works
<knome> well, i was thinking about comments about the new functionality
<bluesabre> pretty cool
<bluesabre> I like it
<knome> the filters and sort - which you can enable by clicking the column headers
<knome> nicks and spec names also link to "show this only"
<knome> (while keeping other existing filters and sort)
<bluesabre> very cool
<knome> well, at least should
<knome> and text search is isntant
<knome> instant too
<bluesabre> mhm
<bluesabre> good stuff here
<knome> so, now you see why i borked the overview tab
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> that said, i do need to work on it a bit
<knome> considering dumping the burndown there
<knome> oh, one thing that doesn't work for now (intentionally) is +teams
<bluesabre> its a very good "get your crap done" page, it's helped me quite a bit this cycle
<knome> ;)
<Unit193> Irssi has a crontab script, I can just 'bluesabre: Get yer crap done.'! :-----D
<knome> ..
<bluesabre> ... too
<bluesabre> :D
<knome> Unit193, i'm already sending daily notifications to his email
<knome> pleia2, reminder: your turn to schedule next meeting :)
<knome> slickymaster, wasn't sure you noticed, but i reworded your work item re: the slideshow translations to "Start the discussion..." since i think the change should be done W+1 (as we discussed), but left the item still open for you to close whenever you feel appropriate
<knome> Unit193, krytarik: any reason your core items are still open?
<knome> dkessel, what's the status with jenkins now?
<knome> lderan, you had any time to think about the qa tracker xml-rpc methods?
<knome> lderan, did you look at the pad that flocculant set up?
<knome> micahg, any news about shimmer-themes and our packageset?
<knome> </pings>
<bluesabre> so pingy!
<knome> very
<knome> bluesabre, do you have any idea about bug 1332931
<ubottu> bug 1332931 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) ""Display configure screen settings and layout" window opens automatically every few seconds" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1332931
<bluesabre> knome: its probably a kernel bug
<knome> aha
<Unit193> Or dbus, yeah, that, dbus.
<bluesabre> basically their laptop keeps mashing the switch-monitor key
<Unit193> logind.
<knome> Unit193.
<knome> d.
<bluesabre>  /etc/unit193.d/01-xubuntu
<Unit193> bluesabre: /usr/lib/unit193, /usr/bin/unit193-browser or /etc/ssl/certs/unit193.pem count?
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> is unit103-browser just a rebranded firefox with a monster truck?
<bluesabre> er unit193-browser
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Nope.
<bluesabre> darn
<knome> bluesabre, did you mean "barn" ?
<bluesabre> actually yarn, thanks for catching the typo
<knome> :P
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-12
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r473 Tweak the look of OSDs... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r474 Deflate GtkEntries so they resemble Gtk2 again (Fixes #144)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r475 Deflate the buttons... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> flocculant: Found it.
<flocculant> thanks ochosi :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - i386 - i386 built.
<ochosi> flocculant: no problem. just sucks that the fixes for ubiquity will take longer, as the problems we're seeing there are also present in Adwaita
<ochosi> so basically i havr to find a new wqy to draw progressbars :/
<ochosi> i also checked with Ambiance and I dont really see why thats still working
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r618 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
<flocculant> ochosi: ok, well at the end of the day if something looks odd during install - not too much of an issue, though the partition size box could be problematic I guess
<ochosi> yeah, that one sucks. also not an easy straight-forward fix
<flocculant> that's nice then
<ochosi> you can also see the same problem in other apps, e.g. xfpm 1.6.0
<ochosi> so it's a systemwide problem
<ochosi> basically the same is true for the progressbar problem
<flocculant> aah - not so good then
<Unit193> flocculant: Fixored.
<ochosi> if i change the progressbar stuff, we have to cross-check for regressions elsewhere if it's not a clean fix
<flocculant> indeed
<flocculant> I'd happily be laid back about the progressbar stuff - if it means not having to worry about elsewhere tbh
<ochosi> i already did a dirty fix yesterday, but a clean one would really be nicer..
<ochosi> yeah, to the worst i'd also rather leave it as is then potentially break it elsewhere
<flocculant> yup
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 16.10 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<ochosi> bbl
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: just in case you see - don't bother rebuilding iso unless you see they fixed the lock issue
<flocculant> Unit193: yep - that's better :)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: ok.. will keep an eye out
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: it should be back tomorrow
<akxwi-dave> cheers mate
<flocculant> bluesabre ochosi - finally added the 2 gtk3 ppa's here - better than last time, firefox is usable :)
<Unit193> "Bug information are updated every 5 minutes." well someone knows how to English.  Also, that was clearly more than 5 ago.
<flocculant> something's awry with bug info on tracker again - it's not remembering reported bugs
<flocculant> I did ping stgraber bout that - but no response, possibly on holiday
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, since the LO theme is now in src:libreoffice, elementary-xfce is the last thing that should be split out, and it can be a proper package all on its own! :D
<Unit193> (Might be nice if Mythbuntu and UbuntuStudio get to no longer ship 'xubuntu-icon-theme', but 'elementary-xfce-icon-theme' :P )
<knome> Unit193, send email to their devel lists and include me in the CC
<Unit193> knome: I'm talking about *our* package.
<knome> Unit193, yeah but you were talking about other flavors not shipping our package
<Unit193> knome: Oh, oh, oh!  Did you do the wallpaper? :D
<knome> not yet
<knome> i've been busy whole day today
<ochosi> knome: i can haz wallpaper??
<ochosi> (:
<knome> you can have an old and used.
<Unit193> ochosi: Pull one from 6 cycles back, nobody will remember.
<knome> ochosi, can do a wallpaper session some night, as we've done before
<ochosi> yeah, but i'm afk from tday for a bit more than 2weeks
<ochosi> so it'd have to be e.g. tonight
<knome> that could work
<knome> when are you going to bed?
<ochosi> hm, not sure
<ochosi> not in the next 20mins ;)
<knome> well
<knome> i'll boot the desktop in 5-15 mins and then PM you
<knome> i hope the session can last more than 5-15 mins though :P
<ochosi> is 16min 10 secs enough?
<knome> ff
<knome> i was thinking more like 30-45'ish
<ochosi> heh, still the worst burndown ever: http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-burndown
<ochosi> typicaal LTS+1
<knome> yep
<ochosi> flocculant: btw, adwaita also exhibits that problem that we seem to be having in the installer with the partition size spinbutton that isn't big enough for the text/content
<ochosi> not that that makes it any more fun
<ochosi> but it explains why we suddenly see it
<ochosi> it's adwaita, hence Gtk+ itself
<flocculant> ochosi: ack - I think I read that ^^, or an allusion to that 
<flocculant> yep
<ochosi> well, i mentioned it also wrt the progressbar issue
<ochosi> but i just confirmed it for the spinbuttons as well
<flocculant> I still am of the opinion that if we need to we can release note this
<flocculant> aah right :)
<ochosi> yeah, we can. i'd still prefer to somehow find a solution
<ochosi> also wanna know what the culprit is
<flocculant> ofc - but don't think that I'd be whining for weeks over it :)
<flocculant> the partition size is more issue than progress obviously - but if someone's not sure - they can gparted before starting installer
<ochosi> yeah, i'm still investigating though
<ochosi> maybe some gtk+ devs can help shed a light on this
<flocculant> right 
<ochosi> flocculant: btw, what's the latest daily of yakkety i can try?
<flocculant> 10th at the moment
<ochosi> k, thanks
<flocculant> no-one built since then
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> just need to see whether ambiance really makes it all work
<flocculant> ochosi: right 
<ochosi> cause on 16.04 with gtk3.20 it doesn't fix ubiquity's problem with the partition entry
<flocculant> mmm - to be honest I didn't check that
<flocculant> ochosi: if it's just a check I can look - have ubuntu iso already
<ochosi> oh ok
<ochosi> please do so
<ochosi> a screenshot would be nice!
<ochosi> and please check with partitions that have >=5 digits
<ochosi> below it always works
<flocculant> mmm 
<flocculant> hang on
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/LBn3e7a.png
<ochosi> this is what i get
 * flocculant builds a stupid vm
<ochosi> that partition has a size of 217410 MB
<flocculant> ochosi: in ubuntu?
<ochosi> the 6 digits do the trick
<ochosi> it's not about ubuntu necessarily, you just have to install and use their themes
<ochosi> this is ambiance (from light-themes)
<ochosi> the ubuntu default
<flocculant> yup
<ochosi> if ubuntu also screws this up, we need to file a bugreport against ubiquity
<flocculant> ochosi: I've not got enough space anywhere on the multiple drives I have to get >=5 digits ... 
<ochosi> :/
<ochosi> divide et impera?
<knome> just add a lot of non-1 digits
<flocculant> yes I have - I'll put it in one of the media drives
<ochosi> good thinking!
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - how big do you want it - I've got 250Gb
<ochosi> that's enough
<ochosi> 6 digits should be fine
<ochosi> flocculant: lucky for you my dl speed here is so slow that i really *have to* wait for your screenshot cause the iso will take another 30mins to download...
<flocculant> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/DzQlvAK.png
<flocculant> which I think you'll be pleased to see :)
<knome> that's silly...
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah, go silly ubiquity
<ochosi> flocculant: mind to attach that to the bug nairwolf reported and re-assigning it to ubiquity?
<flocculant> yea ofc :)
<ochosi> awesome, thanks!
<flocculant> welcome - I'll get that space back now :p
<ochosi> :D
<flocculant> I'd go nuts if it took me 30 minutes to d/l an iso lol
<ochosi> yeah, i'm not really at home
<ochosi> otherwise yeah, same here ;)
<flocculant> aah right :)
<ochosi> so now that i dont have to worry about spinbuttons anymore...
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> ochosi: ok bug reassigned, commented with screenshot 
<flocculant> not sure who's going to want to look at that over there in Ubuntumainland :)
<ochosi> we'll have to ping around
<ochosi> seb128 would be my go-to-guy for this
<ochosi> (Laney is on holidays)
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> yea I was going to say that 
<ochosi> i have to get some car stuff fixed tomorrow, if you're around and have time, please do ping him about it
<flocculant> I'll try and catch seb before I go to work in -desktop
<ochosi> awesome, thanks
<flocculant> that or I'll hassle Will :p
<flocculant> he's less likely to aks me questions ... 
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> well but who is more likely to get it fixed.? :)
<ochosi> anyway, either of the two should be fine
<ochosi> but we should really try to bring it to their attentio
<ochosi> n
<flocculant> yea ofc 
<ochosi> i might actually write a quick patch to fix it
<flocculant> I'll do it in the morning 
<ochosi> it's likely going to be a one-liner
<ochosi> hah, ok so the width in chars is set to "6" in that dialog in ubiquity
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> so never going to show a Tb?
<ochosi> Tb?
<flocculant> terabyte
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> and obviously struggling even with GB
<flocculant> obviously not as it doesn't show 250Gb - tired :)
<Unit193> ochosi: Tuberculosis.
<flocculant> ochosi: you want me to say about 6 characters or will you comment on bug? 
<ochosi> i'll comment
<ochosi> and maybe submit a merge request
<ochosi> btw, it might also have to do with the fact that we switched to a wider font
<flocculant> ok - I'll just point *them* at the bug tomorrow
<ochosi> or DPI
<ochosi> cause i'm really not sure why nobody noticed so far
<ochosi> or why it wasnt an issue in gtk3.18
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> I did check 16.04 for us on hardware yesterday, but not huge drive
<flocculant> will quickly do that now
<ochosi> thansk
<ochosi> thanks
<ochosi> i'm pushing a fix as we speak
<flocculant> grabbing ubuntu 16.04 now too
<flocculant> ochosi: fine in 16.04 
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/rQ0CE8W.png
<ochosi> hah
<ochosi> well obviously they must've taken back the horizontal expand
<flocculant> can't imagine ubuntu fails - but doing that now
<ochosi> the option simply isn't set
<ochosi> nah, no need to check
<ochosi> the width of that widget is so much wider, it's definitely not theme related
<flocculant> ochosi: maybe when they stopped right aligning the skip button this happened
<ochosi> anyway, my merge request is done
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> well I did check - cos I had done everything but boot it :p
<ochosi> please also add your 16.04 screenshot
<flocculant> ochosi: done :)
<flocculant> really going to search bedroom for wasps and then sleep now - cya all tomorrow :)
<ochosi> flocculant: great, nice to at least have nailed one of the two annoying installer bugs ;)
<ochosi> night!
<ochosi> flocculant: btw, in the future pls add these bugs to the bugs blueprint
<ochosi> (or pls tell nairwolf to do so in case he doesn't know)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-13
<bluesabre> evening all
<ochosi> bluesabre: conveniently ignored all my pings, eh? :)
<Unit193> I know. :(
<flocculant> hi ochosi 
<flocculant> ochosi: pinged seb - blaming you :p
<flocculant> and he threw the ball - I should have thought about Mathieu :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: assuming you've got yak installed - have you tried webcam/mugshot?
<nairwolf> hi flocculant 
<nairwolf> webcam with mugshot works ? 
<nairwolf> I haven't found the button to take a photo with the webcam
<flocculant> yea - it's disabled - hence asking bluesabre - who's going to know what he did to disable it - and re-enable it and test it :)
<nairwolf> oh, ok
<flocculant> nairwolf: your ubiquity/create partition box has been handed over to canonical now btw
<nairwolf> thank you. I'm reading logs from yesterday, right now. I've seen builds are come back in the tracker ;)
<flocculant> yup
<nairwolf> flocculant: yeah, I've seen that
<nairwolf> But nobody confirmed what I've seen on Libreoffice Calc ? 
<flocculant> nope
<nairwolf> I need to confirm it again
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: admin on -testers so you can contact members 
<nairwolf> ochosi: for the bug with the partition box, you said you have created a patch ? But it's not on the build, right ? 
<nairwolf> flocculant: do you know if someone is in charged of this bug : 1622303
<nairwolf> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1622303
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1622303 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Fails to unlock/ resume to black screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<nairwolf> Because, this is really annoying, don't you think ?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [yakkety] r619 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of ubuntu-core-doc)
<flocculant> bluesabre is looking at it
<nairwolf> ok
<nairwolf> ochosi said "flocculant: btw, in the future pls add these bugs to the bugs blueprint". Does it talk about this http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-details/spec=xubuntu-y-bugs ?
<flocculant> yes
<nairwolf> But, I'm not sure I can add anything
<nairwolf> oh, this is done from this page ? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-y-bugs
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> but - please don't randomly add things to it
<flocculant> has to be confirmed
<flocculant> has to be something that Xubuntu can fix
<nairwolf> ok
<nairwolf> And this one is not related to Xubuntu ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1622303
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1622303 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Fails to unlock/ resume to black screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<nairwolf> oh, no, it's light-locker
<flocculant> someone's looking at it - and it's on the bug list too
<flocculant> yea - I changed it recently after talking to Sean
<flocculant> bbl
<nairwolf> I don't see this bug on dev.xubuntu.org
<flocculant> not real-time updating
<nairwolf> ok ;)
<flocculant> off now
<nairwolf> light-locker is not from xfce ? 
<nairwolf> where is from ? 
<nairwolf> Does xfce has a something equivalent to light-locker ? 
<nairwolf> I still have the bug issue with libreoffice calc : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1622260
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1622260 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Calc doesn't highlight focused box" [Undecided,New]
<nairwolf> I need to try this with Ubuntu
<nairwolf> where is from the command 'umount' ? 
<nairwolf> I've seen something related to umount
<nairwolf> If you have an usb key called 'Xubuntu 16.16 amd64', usually, when you type 'umount /media/' then tab. You should have the autocompletion 'umount /media/nairwolf/Xubuntu 16.10 amd64'. But I haven't. It stops to 'umount /media/nairwolf/Xubuntu'
<knome> nairwolf, what does 'ls /media/nairwolf' say?
<bluesabre> ochosi, certainly wasn't intentional
<bluesabre> ochosi, that patch looks easy enough for the ubuntu folks to review and include
<nairwolf> knome: Xubuntu 16.10 amd64
<nairwolf> I've sent an email to explain that
<nairwolf> I'm downloading Ubuntu Yakkety to test it
<bluesabre> Unit193, for elementary-xfce-icon-theme and xubuntu-icon-theme, what would be the best way to have "elementary-xfce-icon-theme" and for each to set the distributor logo?
<bluesabre> Unit193, perhaps it would be unset in "elementary-xfce-icon-theme" and there would be additional conflicting packages generated "-generic", "-xubuntu", "-mythbuntu", etc that set it?
<nairwolf> knome: I can confirm the auto-completion bug with Ubuntu
<nairwolf> But, I'm unable to confirm the one with libreoffice. 
<flocculant> bluesabre: good morning :)
<ochosi> flocculant: thanks!
<flocculant> ochosi: welcome :)
<nairwolf> I've reported this bug on the tracker : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/1622987
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1622987 in util-linux (Ubuntu) "Auto-completion seems broken with umount command" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> nairwolf: maybe ask in #ubuntu-bugs what to report it against, might even find that someone knows an existing bug for that umount issue
<nairwolf> it's not related to Xubuntu
<nairwolf> we were synchronized ;)
<flocculant> or not 
<nairwolf> Good idea ;)
<nairwolf> By the way, I couldn't reproduce the bug with Libreoffice Calc on Ubuntu
<nairwolf> but I've seen it again with the daily build
<nairwolf> I know you were unable to see it flocculant...
<nairwolf> I'm wondering why...
<flocculant> ochosi: I'll try and catch Mathieu later today re that 
<flocculant> need to try and catch stgraber too :p
<flocculant> bbl
<ochosi> cool, ty
<sakrecoer> Unit193, bluesabre: i'm not to clear about your issue, but if it can help some how, we do have this for the distribution logo: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio-icon-theme/trunk
<Unit193> bluesabre: tl;dr of compat 10: --with autoreconf, --with systemd and --parallel by default.
<flocculant> cyphermox: you about ?
<cyphermox> yes
<flocculant> cyphermox: quick ubiquity issue - not sure if you saaw pings in -desktop from ~12 hours ago
<flocculant> basically > https://launchpadlibrarian.net/283994776/ubiquity.png
<flocculant> for which ochosi has done mp on bug 1622258
<ubottu> bug 1622258 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Partition creation box during installation is too small" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1622258
<cyphermox> yup I merged in this change already
<cyphermox> looks like I uploaded it too
<cyphermox> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/16.10.11
<ochosi> awesome, thanks cyphermox!
<nairwolf> cyphermox: thank you for the merge ;) 
<nairwolf> So, it should be in the daily build tomorrow, right ? 
<cyphermox> yeah, most likely
<cyphermox> it's currently in proposed, I expect it will make it to -release soonish
<flocculant> cyphermox: awesome :)
<Unit193> Oh bah, now I have to make a new VM.
<flocculant> Unit193: ha 
<ochosi> well i'll be happy if that one is fixed. the progressbar issue is less of a problem
<Unit193> I'm, uh, actually testing to see if another bug in that is fixed. :P
<nairwolf> Unit193: which another bug ? 
<Unit193> nairwolf: Crashing installer.
<nairwolf> Oh, I haven't seen that
<Unit193> Wouldn't, it's only Xubuntu Core.
<nairwolf> oh, ok
<flocculant> sometimes :p
<Unit193> flocculant: No, there's a workaround. :P
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> install from desktop :D
<Unit193> Heh, https://bugs.debian.org/837708
<ubottu> Debian bug 837708 in thunar "thunar: Segfault after file rename" [Normal,Open]
<Unit193> flocculant: Nope, different one. :P
<flocculant> woohoo - 2 workrounds - we're cooking with gas now :)
<nairwolf> Oh, I'm suffering from Thunar bug right now !
<nairwolf> I renamed a file !
<Unit193> Silly nairwolf, you know you aren't supposed to rename files.
<nairwolf> I'm sick ;)
<Unit193> Noooope, still crashing away. :D
<ochosi> flocculant: good news: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot2016-09-1323-51-24.php
<bluesabre> ochosi, yay
<ochosi> now i only have to find the LP bug id and i can push it
<ochosi> and then i'll go ahead and release 3.20.1
<ochosi> so you guys can get it uploaded
<bluesabre> ochosi, sounds good to me
 * Unit193 already called not it.
 * bluesabre calls it.
<ochosi> does anyone have the bug id handy?
<ochosi> somehow i can't seem to find it and it's not linked to our bugs blueprint
<bluesabre> one sec
<ochosi> oh, found it
<bluesabre> ochosi, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/+bug/1617705
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617705 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Unstarted installation indicators show tiny amount of progress" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> darn
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> thanks anyway
<ochosi> btw, we might need a UIFe for this
<ochosi> because it's not just the patch, but also the few tweaks i did
<ochosi> mostly deflating
<bluesabre> alrighty
<ochosi> and your plank theme
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> ochosi, don't suppose this was also fixed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/+bug/1617711
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1617711 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "Resize screen hard to read" [Undecided,New]
<ochosi> i wasnt even aware of that one
<ochosi> oh wow, that looks terrible
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> well at the moment i can't even get to that dialog because of this funny thing: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot2016-09-1400-08-58.php
<bluesabre> "at least" = "more than"
<ochosi> potato potato
<bluesabre> potato grapefruit
<ochosi> anyway, ubiquity refuses to let me use the gtk inspector on it
<ochosi> so i'll have to look at the source code anyway
<bluesabre> even with 
<bluesabre> GTK_DEBUG=interactive ?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> ofc
<bluesabre> lame
<ochosi> maybe a polkit issue
<ochosi> can't really find the ui sheet for that page in ubiquity though
<ochosi> very odd
<ochosi> maybe it's drawn in teh code
 * knome draws a fish in ochosi's notebook
<bluesabre> hi knome 
<knome> hey bluesabre 
<bluesabre> what's up?
<knome> shredding old usb disks and cleaning up closets
<ochosi> bluesabre: i've stolen your screenshot and recycled it in my blog post ;) http://simon.shimmerproject.org/2016/09/13/greybird-3-20-1-released-mostly-bugfixes/
<knome> thief!
<bluesabre> ochosi, alrighty, enjoy the corner mugshot launcher :D
<ochosi> ppl will think it's a fancy logout menu ;)
<bluesabre> works for me :)
<ochosi> so sucks a bit i didn't know about this other bug
<ochosi> but well, the more annoying ones are fixed
<ochosi> btw, i will probably need another greybird release (or at least patch) so we can get the "CSD as toolbar" situation fixed
<bluesabre> definitely, and we'll get that other one fixed sooner than later probably
<ochosi> and probably some help with MRs
<bluesabre> just gotta ping me and I can nag
<ochosi> well in evince i can already fix the problem
<ochosi> but we need analogous patches for the other apps that we ship by default or care about
<bluesabre> I'll see about getting a list together of those
<ochosi> https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/evince/add_toolbar_class/+merge/305423
<ochosi> it's a really simple patch
<ochosi> you should be able to do that for any given app with a headerbar patch
<ochosi> file-roller is high on my list
<ochosi> if you can get that done, i'll get the additional lines into greybird
<bluesabre> alrighty
<ochosi> i wanted to get the first one done to set a precedent
<ochosi> now you can always refer to this one without having to argue too much to get the patch accepted
<bluesabre> yeah, that will definitely help
<bluesabre> I wonder how these look with light-themes
<ochosi> not too bad
<ochosi> they don't draw borders on their headerbars
<ochosi> but i dunno whether that's due to this visual conflict
<ochosi> atm thereis no maintainer for their themes anyway
<ochosi> and i'm not even talking about a designer
<bluesabre> that's pretty crazy
<ochosi> everybody is waiting for/working on unity8...
<ochosi> plus nobody from the community stepped up so far
<bluesabre> The "redo everything every six months" is probably not exciting for potential maintainers
<Unit193> "We'd rather work on something a handful of people are using than something everyone uses"
<Unit193> flocculant: You ever test things with UEFI?
<ochosi> "we'd rather work on something we use ourselves"
<ochosi> that ^ is my main reason for not doing it
<ochosi> plus yeah, ofc, the gtk3 theme breakage is not fun
<ochosi> although it seems gtk3.22 will be largely compatible with 3.20 ;)
<knome> comparatively or objectively? :P
<bluesabre> ochosi, my laptop is uefi
<bluesabre> as far as testing things, everything just works if I stay on *ubuntu
<ochosi> yeah, mine is uefi as well
<ochosi> anyway, sleepytime
<ochosi> night y'all
<knome> nighty y'one
<Unit193> Oh gosh cdimage is slow.
<Unit193> (So I rsync it from my server, cuts the time down by more than half.)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-14
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-volumed-pulse 0.2.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-volumed-pulse-0-2-2-released-tp48256.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> oh boy SwissBot is fast these days
<Unit193> bluesabre: You say UEFI, secure boot or not?  Tried booting yuk?
<bluesabre> Unit193, I think I disabled it a long time ago, and Windows may have reenabled it at some point, but yakkety boots (or it did earlier today and is running right now)
<bluesabre> Unit193, should I be careful not to reboot anytime soon?
<Unit193> bluesabre: It's likely fine, was just trying to do the qemu+ovmf UEFI booting and it's not working on Yakkety using the same version or newer ovmf as I can with Xenial.
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<Unit193> So, wondered if it still works, though I presume it does. :/
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r476 Use box-shadow instead of border in progressbar's progress (... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> dashy went from ITP to RFP in Deby.
<bluesabre> that's a step backward
<bluesabre> I think
<Unit193> Request for Packaging vs Intent to Package.
<bluesabre> right
<bluesabre> ochosi, I have the package ready to go, I'll get a UIFe bug together in the morning to proceed
<bluesabre> time for some sleep, nighty all
<flocculant> Unit193: no I don't
<flocculant> ochosi: yes it was ;)
<flocculant> Unit193: rather I did now and again once upon a time with vbox, not done so recently in vm, not done ever on hardware - all setup there without
<flocculant> ochosi: the resize wasn't on bug list - is now
<ochosi> flocculant: okeydokey, nvm. anything else i'm not aware of atm?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Keep an eye on -xfce, in regards to greybird.
<bluesabre> Unit193, indeed, that will simplify things if Corsac gets to it first :)
<flocculant> ochosi: from a how does it look perspective - nothing I'm aware of 
<pleia2> did the social medias about the final beta next week
<pleia2> sorry for the delay, you know me
<flocculant> pleia2: there was no rush on those at all - cos I'll be all over it Monday/Tuesday next anyway :p
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: I'm suspecting that video and bug reporting on blueprint is likely to be postponed, but I've not done that yet - let me know :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: also toying with an idea (late in cycle) that might come in useful - might be worth talking about soonish
<nairwolf> Good evening
<nairwolf> Does someone can confirm this bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux/+bug/1622987
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1622987 in util-linux (Ubuntu) "Auto-completion seems broken with umount command" [Undecided,New]
<nairwolf> I'm going to ask to #ubuntu-bugs also
<nairwolf> And this bug : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1622260
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1622260 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Calc doesn't highlight focused box" [Undecided,New]
<nairwolf> I'm unable to confirm that on ubuntu version. 
<nairwolf> I see that only with xubuntu
<nairwolf> BUT, I've tried on a vm today, on another computer, and I haven't seen this bug. So, I don't understand...
<nairwolf> I've seen the Calc bug twice with two daily build different
<flocculant> nairwolf: did you look at the umount bug - it's been confirmed
<nairwolf> flocculant: confirmed ? Is it because I've reported this bug twice on the QA tracker ? 
<nairwolf> One with Xubuntu, the second report was with Ubuntu
<flocculant> no, it's because I confirmed it :p
<nairwolf> I was the one who confirmed this bug, badly ;)
<nairwolf> hum... how can I see you confirmed that ? 
<nairwolf> Because I see on bugs.launchpad.net, status=New, Importance=Undecided
<flocculant> try moving out ./config/libreoffice to desktop or something, see if you still see the bug for calc
<nairwolf> The message from Ubuntu QA website, is an automatic message, right ? 
<flocculant> odd - I confirmed that yesterday - anyway - redid that
<nairwolf> okay, now I see your confirmation ;) I wasn't crazy !
<flocculant> not this time
<flocculant> :p
<nairwolf> Do you mean I'm crazy other times ? :p 
<nairwolf> I'm going to test that for libreoffice
<nairwolf> flocculant: what is your advice exactly ? 
<flocculant> anyway - try removing libreoffice from your local system that sees the bug - but it's not something I can confirm - neither on ANY vm's/hardware installations - it's not a xubuntu thing either, doesn't need to be on testcases if it is there
<flocculant> remove the libreoffice folder from your .config 
<nairwolf> what is ./config/libreoffice ? Do you mean 'mv ~/.config/libreoffice ~/Desktop" ?
<nairwolf> oh, ok
<flocculant> yea that'd do it
<nairwolf> yes, I know that's weird, but you have seen my screenshot
<flocculant> yes
<flocculant> 4 times
<nairwolf> I'm unable ton confirm on my actual machine. Unable to confirm on a vm. It just happen with this computer. 
<flocculant> it doesn't change - and I still can't confirm it
<flocculant> sigh
<nairwolf> I should try to see if there is something with 16.04.1 with this test computer
<nairwolf> I just need time to create the usb key
<flocculant> nairwolf: really just move the folder - then check
<nairwolf> yeah
<flocculant> what?
<nairwolf> what 'what ?' ?
<flocculant> where exactly do you see this? 
<nairwolf> I'm seeing this bug with my 'test computer'
<nairwolf> I have two computers
<nairwolf> The one I'm using now, is running devel, but I can't see this bug. 
<nairwolf> The second one is a computer only used for test
<flocculant> your last comment makes no sense actually on the bug - you say clean install (of 16.10) then start talking about devel
<nairwolf> I need to create a live-usb. 
<flocculant> they're the same versions
<nairwolf> I talked about 16.10 ? No, I talked about 16.04.1. I will try to remove .config with 16.10
<flocculant> regardless of which - not something can be confirmed from a live 16.10, installed 16.10, installed and updated 16.10 except by you :)
<flocculant> InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 16.10 "Yakkety Yak" - Alpha amd64 (20160910)
<nairwolf> I will aslo check if I see something with *this* computer with Xenial (16.04). 
<flocculant> if it IS a 16.04 bug - then this is the wrong place - support for 16.04
<nairwolf> sorry, I'm not clear...
<nairwolf> It's a bug of 16.10
<flocculant> that no-one else can confirm :)
<nairwolf> BUT, I want to verify if the cell is focused on 16.04, with this *weird* computer.  
<nairwolf> I know that no-one can confirm...
<nairwolf> that's why it's weird
<flocculant> nairwolf: so you saw this once with a clean install? 
<nairwolf> yes !
<flocculant> how did you get the iso? was it zsynced? if not did you check the md5sum? 
<nairwolf> I'm using zsync
<flocculant> then I would just ignore it if you saw it once 
<nairwolf> no, I've seen that twice (with two different build)
<nairwolf> We'll see if I'm able to see it again
<flocculant> tbh nairwolf I'm really not bothered about an aberrant bug only 1 person has seen, for something that's not a Xubuntu 'package' 
<nairwolf> I understand that, don't worry
<flocculant> obviously no-one in here can confirm it - or they'd have said so :)
<flocculant> we 'just' grab LO from the archive for our seed
<nairwolf> yes, I understand that ;) But don't think I'm crazy :p
<flocculant> well I don't think that - or if you were you'd have had to fiddle with the screenshot ;)
<flocculant> not saying you don't see it - just saying that in the scheme of things - this is very low on the list for me 
<nairwolf> that's fine ;)
<nairwolf> the bug with light-locker is the most annoying for me
<nairwolf> That's great, the small box for resizing partition has been fixed ;)
<nairwolf> I'm glad to see a bug I've discovered being fixed rapidly ;)
<nairwolf> flocculant: sorry to annoy with this bug. I happens again
<nairwolf> I've removed ~/.config/libreoffice and it's still the same thing
<nairwolf> the box is unfocused
<nairwolf> I know that doesn't make sense, but I will make a clean install of 16.04.1 (Xenial) to see if there is, maybe, something wrong with my computer
<flocculant> nairwolf: please go to #ubuntu+1 with this calc thing
<nairwolf> flocculant: ok
<flocculant> someone there might have seen it - no-one here has
<nairwolf> however, I haven't seen that with a clean install of Ubuntu, with Yakkety
<nairwolf> Now, I'm stopping to annoy you. 
<flocculant> doesn't matter - it's the dev testing channel
<flocculant> for users and stuff
<nairwolf> ok
<ochosi> evening
<ochosi> flocculant: ok, i'll try to fix that one remaining greybird bug in the installer then
<ochosi> have you checked how it looks with adwaita?
<ochosi> cause if it's broken there too we again have a ubiquity bug on our hands
<nairwolf> flocculant: I wanted to verify if I could see this akward bug (libreoffice Calc) on 14.04.1
<nairwolf> Because, if the box was unfocused with 14.04.1 that would mean the problem is from my computer. 
<nairwolf> But no, it happens only with clean install of Xubuntu, with the devel version. 
<nairwolf> Tomorrow, I will go to #ubuntu+1
<nairwolf> and ask them
<nairwolf> good night
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-15
<flocculant> ochosi: mmm - ubiquity started with adwaita http://i.imgur.com/qQpdIKJ.png
<flocculant> commented eventually and changed bug to ubiquity
<ochosi> flocculant: awesome, thanks!
<ochosi> let's hope they care a little about it
<ochosi> have you tried with Ambiance as well?
<ochosi> (cause if it's broken there too, they'll certainly care more)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: libxfce4ui 4.13.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-libxfce4ui-4-13-1-released-tp48263.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-clipman-plugin 1.4.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-clipman-plugin-1-4-0-released-tp48266.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: ack..... just give me a shout and I'm all yours..
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi, flocculant want to ACK https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/+bug/1623855 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1623855 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Greybird 3.20.1" [Undecided,New]
<knome> sure
<knome> not in the release team though, so
<bluesabre> knome, but you're in docs, right?
<knome> yep, and i acked it already
<bluesabre> good sir :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: acked with both hats on
<flocculant> knome: re "not in the release team though, so" yes you are - ochosi shouldn't be seperately I guess (old XPL) council is member of release :)
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: might be better if I run it by you on e-mail 
<flocculant> ochosi: I had checked ambiance unfortunately - as a rule I always check Ubuntu as well as Xubuntu if something ubiquityish is wrong 
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-settings 4.12.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-settings-4-12-1-released-tp48268.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<knome> flocculant, though i don't think council == release team
<akxwi-dave> flocculant: KK..  
<flocculant> knome: didn't say council ==release team - but if xpl was on there then why not council, and if council not why was xpl :p
<flocculant> frankly I couldn't care one way or the other though
<flocculant> knome: when you've got 30 minutes or so to mull something over :)
<flocculant> no rush btw - before zealous zebedee gets to us :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: would be great if settings could make it into the final of yakkety and with an SRu go to xenial
<flocculant> ochosi: re resize bug - checked other flavours - gnome affected, but I assume that'd be expected
<ochosi> flocculant: yeah that's expected. so at least we're not alone blaming ubiquity ;)
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> not easy to find anyone gnomeish of late to saddle up for the blame session 
<ochosi> jbicha maybe?
<flocculant> don't know - is he something to do with Ubuntu Gnome - or just happens to do stuff because others are away 
<flocculant> can't even remember Tim's nick :(
<ochosi> knot sure, but i thought he was pretty active in the gnome ubuntu community
<krytarik> flocculant: darkxst
<flocculant> krytarik: thanks :)
<flocculant> ochosi: ok - well if I don't see you letting him know - I will - think you're away on hols aren't you?
<flocculant> in the meantime I'll at least flag it on their iso tracker builds
<knome> flocculant, could do 15ish now if that's enough
<knome> flocculant, otherwise "tomorrow"
<flocculant> manana in the good old Spanish way will be fine - really no rush :)
<knome> oki
<knome> you at work on the daytime?
<flocculant> yea tomorrow I am 
<knome> oki, then let's try to catch up in the evening
<knome> just ping - i'm lurking more often than one'd think...
<flocculant> I was serious when I said 'before zz' :)
<knome> yeah, but better get it done sooner than later anyway
<flocculant> yep ok - more or less the same here too lol
<knome> re: council/xpl on release, i think we need to rethink that
<knome> unless that's what this is about :P
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> no - this is something completely different than that :)
<knome> i mean again, xpl was a single person who had a lot of "decision power"
<flocculant> yea
<knome> so it made sense that he was a member of the release team
<flocculant> right
<knome> now the council is much more like an arbiter
<flocculant> at a minimum needs qa/tech 
<knome> yeah
<flocculant> the 'can mark ready' thing isn't so much a necessirty ofc as anyone with powers can do that
<knome> could be those and one from council - just for any unrealistic but potential veto stuff
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> but that person shouldn't likely be very active in that team - at least with their council hat on
<flocculant> yea
<knome> maybe it would make sense that bluesabre served as both technical and council member
<knome> he'd then know - as anybody really
<knome> - when to be in touch with council
<knome> eg. if the situation looks really disastrous
<flocculant> yea - except that on release days is kind of pants - cos he's not available usually at those times
<knome> mhm
<knome> i think i have all mark-powers via the qa tracker dev team
<flocculant> I think anyone half tech would know if something was looking disastrous - and could shout at least to delay 
<knome> yeah, that
<flocculant> knome: yea you will have - I can mark anyone's image ready
<knome> i guess i have any powers you can ever imagine :P
<flocculant> even I'd know if something techish was looking disastrous :)
<flocculant> anyway - needs a rethink now I guess - but once more not really a rush there 
<knome> yep
<knome> oh, even council is a member of that team
<flocculant> ideally before 13th October is all :D
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> cos s/xpl/council :)
<knome> yep
<knome> but simon is a member individually too
<flocculant> yes - not sure why that - maybe some xpl/individual stuff - no idea
<flocculant> can you remember how it was when you were xpl? 
<knome> we didn't have the xpl team then
<knome> but if the council/xpl team is a member, then simon doesn't have to be
<flocculant> cos as 'not xpl' art team lead in release is odd :)
<flocculant> yea - same as bluesabre in release
<knome> i think the rationale behind this is that we explicitly wanted to communicate that simon is part of the release team
<flocculant> currently it's effectively me/dave and council
<knome> yep
<knome> i deactivated simon
<flocculant> k
<knome> now it's more like it likely should be, i think
<flocculant> not sure really - the only other non qa/council person logically should be there would be Unit193 
<knome> does anybody have any reason why the council needs to be a *member* of the bugs team?
<flocculant> don't think there's need for Sean to be there perhaps 
<flocculant> on release
<flocculant> does it not own bug team?
<knome> well, that explicitly states he's the tech lead
<knome> it does, yes
<flocculant> ok - that works for me 
<knome> but it's also a member of the team
<knome> which is a bit different
<flocculant> then it'll be a member won't it? 
<knome> nope
<knome> i think, weight on the word *think*
<flocculant> lose elfy from that team ... 
<knome> that *members* get the bug mail
<knome> owners don't
<knome> done
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> trying to remember back
<flocculant> ty :)
<knome> anyway, as council is the owner, it doesn't "need" to be a member
<flocculant> knome: maybe amend council bug mail options ? 
<flocculant> though given sean is there twice - might screw that up 
<knome> oh well,
<knome> i'll send a mail to the council to see what they think :P
<flocculant> :)
<knome> and now time to run
<knome> ttyl
<flocculant> cya 
<flocculant> Unit193: uefi bug being reported in -release :p
<Unit193> Thanks.
<flocculant> welcome :)
<Unit193> Got a list of those of us on Yak that you can ask to test stuff, btw?
<Unit193> Also, that bug means that I haven't tested Core with UEFI (or secure boot) either. :3
<flocculant> Unit193: nope - no list
<flocculant> I've subbed to that uefi bug now I worked out what I needed to install to make it work :p
<Unit193> Oh, could have asked. :3
<Unit193> I pull a RPM from OpenSuse's build system (like PPAs, though can build more than just rpms) and extracted the EFI module, placing it in /usr/share/ovmf/.  I really don't remember what it was with the packaged one that prevents secure boot though. :D
<flocculant> well yes could have asked - but we don't much talk about testing uefi here :p
<Unit193> I, uh, first noticed because of something non-Xubuntu, then went up the line (Non-xubuntu, xubuntu-core, xubuntu-desktop, xenial releases.)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [yakkety] r315 Update icons from upstream... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<jbicha> bluesabre: I borrowed your packaging to update Debian: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/greybird-gtk-theme
<Unit193> libxfce4ui 4.13.1-1; xfce4-clipman-plugin 2:1.4.0-1; xfce4-settings 4.12.1-1 uploaded to Debian too.
<bluesabre> jbicha, cool, glad to help :)
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-16
<flocculant> why has bug 1623855 been marked wishlist? 
<ubottu> bug 1623855 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Greybird 3.20.1" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1623855
<ochosi> flocculant: i gueds because the progressbar bug was marked as importance low by the same guy
<ochosi> but yeah, we should.probably do something about that
<ochosi> <- unfortunately afk today...
<bluesabre> flocculant, ochosi, we're good to upload... waiting for syncpackage to work so we can just grab the debian version
<flocculant> bluesabre: okey doke
<flocculant> knome: is it manana today? 
<flocculant> knome: http://wiki.xubuntu.org/playground/playground is read only :p
<flocculant> oh - found sandbox now :D
<flocculant> akxwi-dave knome - you have mail 
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: do you want to do the 'Hey - we have frozen images now' mail next week
<flocculant> and then the obigatory 'oh - we've got x numbers of rebuilds too because ...' mails
<flocculant> bluesabre: re same thing - assuming we're still suffering from bug 1622303 then - I think that finally we actually need to Not Release
<ubottu> bug 1622303 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Fails to unlock/ resume to black screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1622303
<flocculant> or that will still be about on 13th October and we'll end up releasing with the same type issue we've done previously
<flocculant> and frankly Not Release plays right into our hands here imo
<flocculant> dying on return from suspend/lock SHOULD be a blocker 
<flocculant> I'll check out gnome/mate/looby and main tomorrow too for the suspend issue
<flocculant> we can hope it's not just us :)
<flocculant> seems to be something going on with partitions too - though given that gparted freaks out with a usb sorted by 'disks' not sure where the issue is
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-17
<flocculant> bluesabre: so after some mucking about   - seems that bug 1622303 affects mainbuntu
<ubottu> bug 1622303 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Fails to unlock/ resume to black screen" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1622303
<flocculant> running out of patience to test elsewhere - studio can download their own 6 Tb iso - but I do have Mate and Looby Lou to check early tomorrow
<flocculant> mentioned in -release now ;)
<flocculant> anyway
<flocculant> that aside got this 'issue' with partitions - not sure where to go from here on that one
<flocculant> gparted refuses to see an extended, but lets me resize to include a whole drive
<flocculant> a new live session sees the same thing - and agrees with a whole drive
<flocculant> yakky yukky though is now seeing it the same ...
<flocculant> wth
<flocculant> giving up till at least 2017 
<flocculant> bluesabre: checked reboot from lokc/suspend on ubuntu/gnome/lubuntu - all work as expected
<flocculant> suggest we go back to xscreensaver :p
<ochosi> bluesabre: that xfce4-notifyd bug i cc'd you on should probably go into yakkety as a patch, it also applies to 0.2.4 and the bug can be observed with gnome software (and certainly more apps, which we probably dont ship by default)
<knome> flocculant, mmh, yeah...
<knome> flocculant, my only question is who can edit people's rows
<knome> flocculant, anybody can edit anything? then we need at least a password, but then again, sharing that publicly defeats the purpose
<knome> running again ->
<sepisoad>  i am developing a c application which is crashing and I would like to get core dump of it upon crashing
<sepisoad> I already set the ulimimit to unlimited
<sepisoad> but there seems to be no core dump out there
<sepisoad> or at least I cannot find it :(
#xubuntu-devel 2016-09-18
<flocculant> knome: hadn't thought that deeply yet - but why a password? none for wikis
<flocculant> well there are now ofc - but maybe shouldn't be
<flocculant> mostly just wanted to know if the tab option was an option :)
<Unit193> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-clipman-plugin/+bug/1339911 Well then.  And looks like it can be closed.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1339911 in xfce4-clipman-plugin (Ubuntu) "[MRE] Please update xfce4-clipman-plugin to 1.2.6" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> xfce4-weather-plugin 0.8.8-1 uploaded
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-11
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hullo
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<knome> not me? ;(
<bluesabre> hi knome
<bluesabre> hey ochosi
<knome> ]]
<knome> :]] too
<bluesabre> knome, looking forward to the pasi-approved final artful wallpaper :)
<knome> soon, potentially tomorrow this time
<knome> i still need to boot a laptop and try it there
<knome> and do some final adjustments
<knome> probably add the usual vignetting
<knome> :D
<bluesabre> awesome
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-13
<bluesabre> knome, hoping for the wallpaper tomorrow :)
<Unit193> We still ship /etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/orage/oragerc, we can likely remove.
<knome> oh, oh
<knome> let me boot up my laptop now
 * knome hum-di-dums
<knome> bluesabre, branch is ready for you...
<flocculant> bluesabre: liking pa-plugin :)
<knome> for information, sean is going to be interviewed for dedoimedo about xubuntu and probably a bit of xfce as well
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [artful] r325 Update desktop and Plymouth wallpapers... (by Pasi Lallinaho)
<Unit193> That's cool then..  G'luck?  I uploaded pa-plug to extras.
<Unit193> (It's not technically an extra though.)
<flocculant> probably something we'll want people testing 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-14
<bluesabre> greybird-gtk-theme and xubuntu-artwork uploaded
<Unit193> :3
<bluesabre> SwissBot is taking a nap
<Unit193> It does commits, not package uploads.
<bluesabre> I committed tooooo
<Unit193> Noooooooo! :3
<bluesabre> probably didn't like the commit message http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/artful/revision/326
<Unit193> You handle the icon theme, I won't complain at all.
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> head killing me, early bedtime
<bluesabre> night all
<Unit193> Also, kind of crappy.  If we ever do split that out, 0.9 is less than 17.x
<Unit193> G'night.
<bluesabre> xubuntu-icon-theme will just transition to elementary-xfce-icon-theme or something
<bluesabre> then we can fix the version number
<Unit193> Oooooh duh, stupid Unit193...  Different package names.  I'm an idiot.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [artful] r326 * Update elementary-xfce to v0.9, including two additional c... (by Sean Davis)
<flocculant> Unit193: packageset confuses me - and I've lost link I had to it - but if ubuntu loses system-config-printer will we need to add that ?
<bluesabre> flocculant: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/artful/xubuntu
<bluesabre> We'll need it if we want to upload it
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> and probably add it to our seed to keep it
<tracker8> Hi
<flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - reason for the confusion and question is > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-September/005191.html
<Unit193> flocculant: We seed it, as a general rule we care not about what 'ubuntu-desktop' meta/seed does.  It's 'standard' and 'minimal' we do.
<flocculant> aah right - it's the -desktop, standard, minimal stuff I was confusing then 
<flocculant> just thought I'd mention it before they lose it and we do because
<Unit193> Yep, understandable, thanks.
<flocculant> np
<flocculant> for the sake of clarity (for me) where can I find -standard and -minimal ?
<krytarik> flocculant: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.artful
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-15
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r528 Update sidebar class for Thunar-gtk3... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<flocculant> ty
<krytarik> Yw.
<flocculant> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-09-17
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r529 Re-implement sidebar with border instead of box-shadow... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-10
<bluesabre> !team | I scheduled the next meeting for Thursday, September 13 at 22:00 UTC, I hope you'll be able to join in (and update the agenda with things you'd like to chat about)
<ubottu> I scheduled the next meeting for Thursday, September 13 at 22:00 UTC, I hope you'll be able to join in (and update the agenda with things you'd like to chat about): akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<Unit193> \o/
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-11
<Unit193> > xfce4-settings
<flocculant> > xfce4-desktop
<Unit193> Making a note, we're behind with that one and it's a bugfix release.
<flocculant> that makes a bit more sense :p
<Unit193> (I think Blue said it's good to grab, and I keep forgetting.)
<Unit193> Everything else is klar.
<knome> alles klar, der komissar!
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-12
<whiteboardfan> how do I contribute to xubuntu?
<brainwash> this site explains how https://xubuntu.org/contribute/
<whiteboardfan> hi, I read the xubuntu.com/contrib page and registed on the mailing list and lunchpad.  Now how do I get assigned something to do?  Just send an email to the mailing list?
<whiteboardfan> I would like to help in the Documentation area for now
<pmjdebruijn> whiteboardfan: usually people contribute changes they find useful themselves
<pmjdebruijn> usually starting out with trivial stuff
<pmjdebruijn> and building up from there
<pmjdebruijn> so if you think some of the documentation is lacking or has errors, you can correct or ammend that
<pmjdebruijn> and again, start small, build up a working relationship with the core team, before chewing off something big
<whiteboardfan> can you suggest something small that I might start at?
<pmjdebruijn> no particularly
<pmjdebruijn> participating in an open source project really isn't about getting assigned stuff
<pmjdebruijn> this isn't school or business :)
<pmjdebruijn> just try to find something that you think is worth your time and attension
<pmjdebruijn> and/or stick around, maybe someone else has a suggestion
<bluesabre> if you're interested in documentation, maybe review the existing docs and see if there is any outdated info, or something not documented well enough
<bluesabre> there's plenty to do, and none of our stuff is really "complete" :)
<bluesabre> and definitely stick around on the channel... our team is small but international. Some are asleep, at work, or going to bed. :)
<bluesabre> so folks will be around with more info and suggestions
<whiteboardfan> ok
<brainwash> bluesabre: is this correct? I don't recall the panel icons being so faint https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=7f1ecefa802f073880024a57e9f440037123b368
<brainwash> they used to be white (100%) and not greyish (80%)
<TJ-> Grrr; xfce4-terminal ignores the --display= option
<brainwash> ali1234: can you confirm that this one is actually a bug or limitation in xfwm? bug 1422626
<ubottu> bug 1422626 in xfce4-terminal "Terminal not maximized when tiling" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1422626
<brainwash> see the last comment
<brainwash> just noticed that 18.10 does not have xfwm4 4.13 yet
<ali1234> brainwash: i remember that bug but i don't remember what the problem was. we thought it was the terminal grid at first but it was demonstrated that wasn't the problem
<brainwash> ali1234: a quick google search gives https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=751368
<ubottu> Gnome bug 751368 in Backend: Wayland "wayland: gnome-terminal does not fill entire area when fullscreen or maximized due to size increments" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<brainwash> "This is admittedly a violation of the size increments, but something done for years by most window managers under X11.."
<brainwash> well, not by his own xfwm
<ali1234> the problem is that tiled wwindows are not maximized
<brainwash> half-maximized then? :)
<bluesabre> brainwash: yeah, that adapts for the panel's loss of transparency option, speaking of...
<bluesabre> ochosi: is that intentional (removing panel transparency), or should greybird theme the panel to 80% opacity by default?
<ochosi> bluesabre: the background-alpha setting was removed in the 4.13 panel in favor of gdkrgba colors (previously gdkcolor)
<ochosi> greybird never did anything about panel transparency
<ochosi> so the expectation with 4.13 is that themes set a default transparency and if the user wants to override that, he/she has to take the panel color with the color picker and make it transparent in the color selector
<ochosi> (would have been a bit complicated to keep the opacity setting around while still switching to gdkrgba)
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, so to keep a transparent panel, should we make it 80% opaque at all times, or set the rgba?
<bluesabre> the first option means everything is 80%, including icons and text
<bluesabre> the second means that swapping themes doesn't change the panel
<ochosi> enter/leave opacity is a bad idea
<ochosi> that way the panel will just have low contrast
<ochosi> hardcoding the rgba in our settings package might also not be great, because it would stick if people switch themes...
<ochosi> so the best way is probably to set the opacity in greybird
<ochosi> that way other themes will still look ok
<ochosi> personally i'm not sure if it's a big loss not to have the 80% transparency by default anymore
<ochosi> haven't had this setting myself in a long tim
<ochosi> e
<ochosi> knome: thoughts? ^
<ochosi> in any case, the enter/leave stuff should be reverted imo: https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=7f1ecefa802f073880024a57e9f440037123b368
<bluesabre> alrighty, np
<ochosi> however now is a good time to decide
<ochosi> UIF is only two days away if i'm not mistaken
<ochosi> tomorrow in (or after) the meeting i'll tag elementary-xfce and greybird for upload
<bluesabre> great :)
<ochosi> got a last-minute fix from a contributor for pavucontrol
<ochosi> finally it looks normal again...
<bluesabre> woohoo
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-13
<flocculant> ochosi: seen 2 people complaining about that so far
<ochosi> flocculant: about the lack of transparency in the panel you mean?
<flocculant> ochosi: yea
<knome> hmm.
<knome> ochosi, will that mean there is no possibility to get transparency on panel?
<knome> i'm a bit lost on what this whole discussion even relates to
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed gce-compute-images-packages for CPC. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=7a1662c04853f9ee7f1df1dc5cda6e38ba02b8f5 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<ochosi> knome: no, the mechanism changed from 4.12 to 4.13
<ochosi> previously it was a setting, now you have to either set a custom background color or define it in the theme
<ochosi> setting a custom background color is not good for distributors, as it will have effect with any theme
<ochosi> so we can only define this mraningfully in greybird
<knome> right...
<knome> and the user can't change that setting?
<knome> i mean, without changing the theme or custom bg color?
<knome> which requires, i assume, editing a file?
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: tumbler 0.2.3 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-tumbler-0-2-3-released-tp51782.html (by Ali Abdallah-4)
<brainwash> just noticed this new bug in 18.10 https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14685
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14685 in General "Right mouse click in thunar will not display icons for custom actions only" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> also in xfdesktop's context menu
<ochosi> knome: the user can change the bg with the panel dialog still
<ochosi> but yes, there is no global transparency setting anymore that is isolated from the custom color selection
<ochosi> bluesabre: just tagged a new greybird release for you: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v3.22.9
<ochosi> bluesabre: and a new elementary-xfce release: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/releases/tag/v0.13
<ochosi> all just in time for UIF
<ochosi> sorry that i won't make it to the meeting tonight
<ochosi> i know it starts soon but i direly need the sleep
<ochosi> tried to take care of the basics for the next release, let's see if we can still squeeze a xfce4-settings release in
<ochosi> other than that i don't have many updates
<ochosi> (btw, the greybird release includes an 80% transparent panel)
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, annoying, i also noticed https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14685
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14685 in General "Right mouse click in thunar will not display icons for custom actions only" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> i guess we can only hope the glib patch makes it into 18.10
<ochosi> (or we have to poke ubuntu devs to include/cherrypick it)
<ochosi> night everyone!
<ochosi> oh, and one thing i haven't pulled into elementary-xfce is the new thunderbird icon
<ochosi> please lemme know if we want/need that
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks for the releases
<Spass> just a user's opinion - new Thunderbird icon is too flat and IMHO the current one fits elementary better :)
<bluesabre> but it does match firefox better :)
<bluesabre> !team | Starting the meeting in a few
<ubottu> Starting the meeting in a few: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> (running a bit behind, getting notes together)
<bluesabre> Suppose I can go ahead and kick it off
<bluesabre> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 13 22:02:08 2018 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> Who's here? :)
<krytarik> o/
<slickymaster> hey you two
<bluesabre> hey krytarik, slickymaster 
<bluesabre> welcome :)
<bluesabre> #chair krytarik
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre krytarik
<bluesabre> #chair slickymaster
<meetingology> Current chairs: bluesabre krytarik slickymaster
<bluesabre> Might be a quiet meeting
<slickymaster> yep
<bluesabre> #topic Open action items
<slickymaster> we're the only ones around, apparently
<bluesabre> #subtopic bluesabre to continue getting Xubuntu Core patches merged
<slickymaster> your floor bluesabre, go for it
<bluesabre> Sadly, no updates here at this point. There's one person who handles these patches... and he hasn't been interested in doing them. We might look at the minimal ubiquity option that the other flavors adopted in 18.04.
<bluesabre> #info No progress on merging Xubuntu Core at this time
<slickymaster> sad news
<bluesabre> #action xubuntu-team to discuss minimal ubiquity install option
<meetingology> ACTION: xubuntu-team to discuss minimal ubiquity install option
<bluesabre> Might be all we can do for this at this time
<slickymaster> are you thinking in taking this to the m/l?
<bluesabre> Yeah, going to have to
<slickymaster> right
<bluesabre> Hard to herd the whole team at once :)
<krytarik> #nick xubuntu-team
<bluesabre> ... And that's it for open action items.
<bluesabre> #topic Updates and Announcements
<bluesabre> Hope you are all ready to start wrapping up this cycle...
<bluesabre> #info Feature Freeze was on August 23rd
<bluesabre> #info User Interface Freeze is today
<bluesabre> #info Documentation String Freeze is September 20th
<bluesabre> #info Beta Freeze is September 24th
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> #info In case you want to see updates from August, I documented quite a few on my blog, https://bluesabre.org/2018/09/07/xubuntu-development-update-september-2018/
<bluesabre> (not intentionally a plug)
<bluesabre> Anybody else have any updates or announcements?
<slickymaster> nothing here
<bluesabre> krytarik: ?
<bluesabre> lurkers?
<krytarik> NÃ¶Ã¶Ã¶!
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> #topic Discussion
<bluesabre> #subtopic Update on Xfce 4.13 plans
<bluesabre> #info So far, we've added the following Xfce 4.13 components to Cosmic: thunar, xfdesktop4, xfce4-panel, xfce4-screenshooter, xfce4-settings, xfconf, xfce4-taskmanager, xfce4-terminal
<bluesabre> (thanks Unit193 for all the work)
<bluesabre> There's probably more, but that's a good list to work from for testing
<slickymaster> yes, a handful :)
<Spass> bluesabre, one question - any news about the GTK3 bug with scrolling lists in new xfce4-settings?
<bluesabre> Spass: nothing yet. I still need to get that forwarded to the GTK bug tracker.
<bluesabre> It's annoying, so I am totally ready to get it fixed
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> #subtopic QA Plans for Cosmic and DD (flocculant)
<bluesabre> flocculant isn't around... so I'll leave this to him to get this communication out one way or another :)
<bluesabre> #nick flocculant
<bluesabre> #action flocculant to communicate QA Plans for Cosmic and DD
<meetingology> ACTION: flocculant to communicate QA Plans for Cosmic and DD
<slickymaster> yep, better postpone this one
<bluesabre> #subtopic Open discussion
<bluesabre> Anything folks want to discuss or questions need asked?
<bluesabre> Easy meeting :D
<slickymaster> you got lucky bluesabre :P
<bluesabre> #topic AOB
<Spass> probably too late to add it to cosmic, but I think that reconfiguring Atril's Toolbar would be a good thing, like adding some additional elements to it, like Search
<bluesabre> (what's AOB mean?)
<bluesabre> Spass: it's not too late. Feel free to submit a bug report on LP and link it here so we can consider it
<bluesabre> :)
<Spass> ok, great
<bluesabre> (doesn't have to be squeezed into this meeting)
<bluesabre> "AOB" means "Any other business"
<bluesabre> educational meeting :)
<slickymaster> lol
<bluesabre> So, anything else?
<slickymaster> nothing from mr
<slickymaster> me even
<ondondil> Is there a possibility for change in default custom commands in whisker menu? I think adding something like catfish --path=~ --start %s would be nice because whisker menu lacks file search functionality
<bluesabre> ondondil: certainly :)
<bluesabre> same thing I said for Spass, feel free to file a bug report against xubuntu-default-settings so we can consider it
<Spass> will do
<ondondil> Okay, thanks
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> anything else?
<bluesabre> alllllrighty :)
<bluesabre> #topic Schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> slickymaster: I actually stole this meeting slot from you... would you like to schedule a docs meeting soonish?
<slickymaster> sure thing, bluesabre 
<bluesabre> excellent
<bluesabre> #action slickymaster to schedule next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: slickymaster to schedule next meeting
<bluesabre> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Sep 13 22:25:16 2018 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-09-13-22.02.moin.txt
<bluesabre> Thanks everyone who joined in :)
<slickymaster> thanks bluesabre 
<Spass> thanks blue, btw, great job with your dev blog posts lately, very informative for a curious user like me
<bluesabre> Spass: sure thing... they're fun to write and help me remember what we've done :)
<bluesabre> Minutes updated at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<bluesabre> Gotta push out package updates for elementary-xfce, greybird-gtk-theme, xubuntu-artwork, and xubuntu-default-settings tonight for UIF, fun stuff
<Spass> is the new wallpaper for cosmic ready?
<bluesabre> don't think so
<bluesabre> so UIFe on that if we'er doing one (knome?)
<Unit193> Well, here now.
<bluesabre> hi Unit193 
<bluesabre> Welcome to the after-meeting
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Getting ready to run out now... do you have the updated packaging for elementary-xfce?
<bluesabre> bbabl
<Unit193> Yeah, pretty simple though.
<knome> bluesabre, yeah, i can do the UIFe paperwork
<knome> i have something drafted, but not good to go yet..
<knome> and with that, good night!
<krytarik> G'night!
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-14
<bluesabre> oh darn, elementary-xfce is not in our packageset
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: Remove enter/leave opacity setting, release 18.10.1 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=ab91af3ec5fe36ecf9329531908905d4f9f3c3e4 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Switch xubuntu branding to support the png theme variant @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=876935ac531c36491b7fed8c6399bdaad6ae471b (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Not really a problem.
<Unit193> elementary-xfce 0.13-1 uploaded by Unit 193 <unit193@ubuntu.com> https://tracker.debian.org/elementary-xfce
<Unit193> bluesabre: You're good to go.
<Unit193> Greybird is all yours though. :>
<flocculant> !team | I've been trying to find enough interest to carry on. Seems like an impossible task unfortunately. I commit to getting us through what's required for the Cosmic cycle. 
<ubottu> I've been trying to find enough interest to carry on. Seems like an impossible task unfortunately. I commit to getting us through what's required for the Cosmic cycle.: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<flocculant> I will commit to doing what's needed as a member of council for the foreseeable future.
<flocculant> We need to have someone ready to run QA for the DD cycle - I would hope that akxwi-dave will take the baton up
<flocculant> I'll be around for that cycle to help whoever does do the QA as required.
<flocculant> But after the DD cycle - I will be hanging up my spurs and just being a user.
<flocculant> Sorry and all that - but life ;)
<flocculant> To be frank - I just haven't got the energy to fight to get a handful of people to test things anymore. And I've beat my head against a wall so much that my face is as blue from bruising as someone from Avatar ...
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks for all the work you've done for us!
<bluesabre> ochosi, knome, flocculant, slickymaster... in case any of you want to ack, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elementary-xfce/+bug/1792555
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1792555 in elementary-xfce (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] elementary-xfce 0.13-1" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> Errr...yeah I'm going to echo bluesabre and say thanks to flocculant.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I feel bad making you do all the hard work. :(
<bluesabre> Unit193: all I have to do is convince somebody in release to say yes :)
<bluesabre> easy
<bluesabre> peasy
<Unit193> Always make you file all the paperwork.
<bluesabre> I don't mind it
<bluesabre> Also happy to see elementary-xfce appeared in the packageset overnight, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/cosmic/xubuntu
<Unit193> Oooh, shiny.  But as I'm MOTU we'd have had access anyway.
<bluesabre> oh!
<bluesabre> Need to remember that
<bluesabre> looks like syncpackage sees the latest version now, so just waiting for release
<slickymasterWork> even though it's sad to read your words flocculant, I understand your POV
<slickymasterWork> thanks for all the extraordinary work you've done 
<slickymasterWork> bluesabre, do you want me to ack in the bug report, for paperwork sake?
<bluesabre> slickymasterWork: yes please
<slickymasterWork> done bluesabre and thanks
<Unit193> http://people.canonical.com/~doko/ftbfs-report/test-rebuild-20180911-cosmic.html#main that's a lot of main failures...
<bluesabre> and only one xubuntu failure :)
<Unit193> And that looked one-off.
<bluesabre> very nice
<flocculant> bluesabre: acked it 
<Spass> bluesabre, yesterday ondondil proposed o add "search in catfish" action to Whisker Menu, it seems that it's added to xubuntu-default-settings already (line 50), but I can't see it in newest 18.10, see here - https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/whiskermenu/defaults.rc#n50
<Spass> I've tested by creating a new user under cosmic, this action isn't visible in the Whisker settings
<Spass> also "catfish %s --start" doesn't work in some cases and "catfish %s --start --path=~" works better (when you are searching for "Music" for example, the command without --path fails to search anything, it just opens that folder)
<Spass> I guess we need to submit a bug on LP?
<brainwash> Spass: and there is "Web Search" entry which isn't listed in the linked defaults.rc
<brainwash> https://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/tree/panel-plugin/settings.cpp#n182
<Spass> hmm, so the xubuntu-default-settings doesn't affect the Whisker Menu?
<brainwash> only the search actions, right?
<brainwash> or the whole rc config?
<knome> flocculant, THANK YOU for everything so far :)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-15
<Spass> I think that the new "Xfce Terminal" (xfce4-terminal --preferences) menu entry that opens the preferences window should be named "Xfce Terminal Preferences" to avoid users' confusion, because now the menu shows "two terminals", as seen here on a user's screen - http://i.imgur.com/zrJIzUS.png
#xubuntu-devel 2018-09-16
<Unit193> bluesabre: The elementary-xfce bug has nobody 'important' assigned.
<bluesabre> Unit193: ah
<bluesabre> Resolved
<Spass> Whisker Menu search field doesn't take launcher's keywords under consideration at all, is that right?
<Spass> I've tried adding "Thunar" as a keyword in MenuLibre to the "File Manager" launcher trying to solve this issue - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1774046
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1774046 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Thunar should show up by name, if user searches the app by typing in 'thunar' in whiskermenu" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Spass> but I guess keywords are ignored
<bluesabre> Seems so
<bluesabre> one solution might be to patch whiskermenu to display hidden launchers if the full binary is entered
<Unit193> >_>
<brainwash> just don't hide thunar
<Spass> too bad, I think searching for keywords also would be a good thing
<bluesabre> brainwash: we hid it after folks complained about having 2 file managers
<bluesabre> either way, folks will complain
<Spass> bluesabre, and what's your opinion about adding "keyword search" capability to Whisker? should I suggest that to the WM's dev?
<Spass> that could potentially solve that kind of complains
<bluesabre> Spass: certainly, I think it'd be a welcome option
<Spass> ok, I'll suggest that later to Graeme on the Bugzilla
<brainwash> bluesabre: it would be listed as "Thunar File Manager" in the whisker menu
<brainwash> just like "Web Browser" and "Firefox Web Browser"
<brainwash> xubuntu does not hide firefox
<bluesabre> brainwash: that's a good point
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome: if someone uses the symbolic setting of the statusnotifier plugin the wifi icon in the panel and the one in the menu will be visually inconsistent
<ochosi> specifically the signal strength
<ochosi> in the original upstream theme, they have switched to three waves instead of the four we currently feature
<ochosi> it actually does look a bit better or more balanced, especially in smaller sizes
<ochosi> i tried making a 4 waves symbolic icon, but with 16px that's hard, it simply looks crappy (you can actually see in nm-applet's menu how crappy and distorted that looks)
<ochosi> what's your take, shall we switch to the three waves instead of four to make things consistent again?
<ochosi> flocculant: sorry to hear that... thanks for your time and effort! and all the best! (yeah, i know you'll stick around for the rest of the cycle, but still...)
<brainwash> Spass: why make these changes xubuntu specific? bug 1792788
<ubottu> bug 1792788 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[Suggestion] Adding more elements to Atril's toolbar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1792788
<Spass> brainwash, I was told to submit my proposition there, Atril is a MATE application, I'm not familiar with MATE development, so I mostly care about the defaults in Xubuntu
<brainwash> so, MATE or any other users would not benefit from having additional toolbar elements?
<Spass> brainwash, I guess you're suggesting to submit that here also - https://github.com/mate-desktop/atril
<brainwash> right. only if the MATE devs refuse to expose more elements by default, it may be worth to consider changes in (x)ubuntu
<Spass> I see, then I'll try that and I'll wait for the upstream devs' response in that matter
<brainwash> in any case it would help to have their opinion on that matter
<bluesabre> ochosi: 3 seems fine to me... the only time I care about the bars is when there is 1 or 0 :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: heh, i agree. the signal strength is overrated anyway, it's never really *that* accurate (and doesn't tell you much about throughput, latency etc)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> alright, i can try to prep a branch pulling in stuff from upstream
<ochosi> probably loads of icons, maybe i'll wait for knome's feedback
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: Release 18.10.1 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=8dcc679049d8db559da76004a4856a74f86648e7 (by Sean Davis)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-09
<Spass[m]> k3dar7: it was discussed some time ago, I think most of the team is against that idea
<Spass[m]> I think even my suggested additional shortcut to the Whisker Menu (Super+Space) was voted out unfortunately
<Unit193> I mean, one can pretty easily set it up, no need to make it default..
<Spass> personally I now think that XCAPE is not a good solution for the issue and it shouldn't be included by default because of it's "hacky" nature, for example it makes "Super" key change it's behaviour system-wide, so even when you are in the VirtualBox VM window for example
<Spass> I was +1 for XCAPE before, but now I think that simple Super+Space (in addition to the current Ctrl+Esc) is a better way to do it
<Spass> but like Unit said, not a major thing
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is knome
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-11
<Unit193> bluesabre: We should likely make sure everyone is ready for release, no?
<bluesabre> Unit193: yes, indeed. I've been super preoccupied with work, so haven't had a chance to give Xubuntu a good shake :\
<Unit193> No that's fair, just if there's anything pending, now would be the time.  Perhaps a bit late for catfish, but anything that needs finishing touches (wallpaper from knome?)
<knome> when's our UI freeze?
<knome> oh, tomorrow
<knome> fun.
<knome> i'll see what i can do.
<bluesabre> Fair point. I'll do a release and upload of Catfish tonight.
<Unit193> Release?  AFAIK, it's just the one pending?
<Unit193> knome: Great, thanks!
<bluesabre> Unit193: actually a bunch of updates sitting in master :) https://git.xfce.org/apps/catfish/log/
<Unit193> Huh, OK.
<Unit193> https://repology.org/project/catfish/badges :>
<bluesabre> oh shoot, that's awesome
<GreenTea999> Hey guys, I am running the daily iso Xubuntu 19.10 . The "Install Now" button is not working on update-manager. Anyone else facing this issue? https://gfycat.com/conventionalrepentantfirefly
<GreenTea999> Right now I am getting around this with cli `sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade`
<Unit193> What if you run the GUI updater from the terminal, any interesting output?  Anything in ~/.xsession-errors?
<GreenTea999> $ update-managerWARNING:root:can not import unity GI Namespace Dbusmenu not availableTraceback (most recent call last):  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/UpdateManager/Dialogs.py", line 118, in <lambda>    button.connect("clicked", lambda x: callback())  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/UpdateManager/UpdatesAvailable.py", line 848, in
<GreenTea999> on_button_install_clicked    self.cache.checkFreeSpace()  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/DistUpgrade/DistUpgradeCache.py", line 1161, in checkFreeSpace    ("/var", self.quirks.extra_snap_space),AttributeError: 'MyCache' object has no attribute 'quirks'
<GreenTea999> This is logged on click
<GreenTea999> Let me check .xsession-errors
<Unit193> LP 1843076
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1843076 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "[eoan regression] Clicking install button no longer works in update-manager" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1843076
<GreenTea999> Thanks. Glad to see it is reported.
<Unit193> And fixed.
<GreenTea999> I dont think it is fixed.
<GreenTea999> I did a fresh install just to see if it was fixed
<GreenTea999> Oh wait it was fixed today 
<GreenTea999> Maybe in a few days then
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:19.10.12 yeah just an hour ago.
<stefanct> does the current xubuntu-core install cups etc? i was looking briefly at the core package in ubuntu 18.04 and there it does... (and i am not sure if there is a good rationale for that)
<brainwash> stefanct: it is pulled in as recommended package
<stefanct> seems like it is still in disco and eoan
<brainwash> you can use --no-install-recommends
<stefanct> oh... sorry for the noise then
<stefanct> yes
<stefanct> thanks!
<stefanct> hm but not, if you use the xubuntu-core task i think (i have not really worked with tasks previously)
<stefanct> is that a problem, or is installing apt install --no-install-recommends xubuntu-core ok?
<brainwash> I haven't tried it myself
<brainwash> no idea if it is okay, but you get a list of things that it will install
<brainwash> so, check if something important is missing
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-12
<knome> Unit193, bluesabre: i guess you are fine with a new wallpaper after UIF, if i do the paperwork and prepare you the new wallpaper in the bzr branch at latest sunday?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-13
<bluesabre> knome: that's fine by me :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: catfish 1.4.10 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-catfish-1-4-10-released-tp55777.html (by Sean Davis-6)
<bluesabre> Will package that in Debian tonight
<brainwash> install Xfce and get GNOME as bonus? bug 1841260
<ubottu> bug 1841260 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "Xfce4 xfce4-goodies on 19.04 mini installs Gnome " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1841260
<Unit193> Might be amusing to detangle why, but apart from that..
<Unit193> Likely because they install lightdm but don't define lightdm-gtk-greeter, so it pulls unity-greeter and spins out of control.
<brainwash> sounds familiar
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-14
<bluesabre> Unit193:  catfish 1.4.10 is ready for upload, if you want to do the honors... https://salsa.debian.org/python-team/applications/catfish
<Unit193> Alrighty.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-09-15
<Unit193> bluesabre: Around?
<ali1234> i just got a new video card and when it puts the monitors in power saving it only turns off two out of three
<ali1234> i suspect this is due to a cabling issue
<ali1234> but it's weird :)
<TJ-> ali1234: swap cables around see if the non-sleeping monitor moves with it
<ali1234> i would do, but i bought cables that are exactly the right length, and it is the shortest one that is acting weird
<ali1234> it also has loads of ghosting
<TJ-> ow :)
<ali1234> which i would have expected on the longest one first
<ali1234> they are DP to VGA cables
<TJ-> connector pins bent, have you checked?
<TJ-> DP to VGA requires an active convertor doesn't it? so could be related to drawing power?
<ali1234> anyway i just mention it in case anyone sees a similar issue... small chance it's due to my GPU
<TJ-> ali1234: seen a lot of cases where pins have been bent or debris in connector blocked the DDC comms
<ali1234> i bought brand new cables with the brand new GPU :)
<TJ-> ali1234: brand new is often a problem... pins have never been plugged into a recepticle so may be out of line.
<ali1234> who made this? https://i.imgur.com/bABrUk8.png
<ali1234> there is something wrong with it for sure :(
<ali1234> i probably have an old version though
<ochosi> ali1234: i (mostly) made it, let me know if there are issues with the latest 4.14.1 release (otherwise i probably won't care ;))
<ochosi> but it's - as everything xfsettingsd does - xrandr based
<ali1234> well, basically if i ever unplug any monitor, all my monitors turn off
<ochosi> so if something doesn't work with xrandr, don't expect the display dialog or xfsettingsd to work any differently
<ali1234> if "configure news displays when connected" is set to "off" then the only way to recover my desktop is to restart Xorg
<ali1234> however if it is set to on then plugging the monitor back in causes all my monitors to turn on again
<ali1234> the setting "automatically enable profiles..." does not seem to do anything at all
<ochosi> do you have a saved profile for the current setup?
<ochosi> also, there was a bug in this in 4.14.0, hence 4.14.1
<ali1234> i tried with and without
<ali1234> and i'm still running 18.04
<ochosi> so again, if you're not on 4.14.1 i'll stop reading *now* :)
<ali1234> so how do i install 4.14.1 on 18.04?
