#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-21
<mr_pouit> micahg: (re: #737324) I had to move xfce4-notifyd to depends, because daily builds were broken with it as recommends only (it should precisely be the same issue: another notification-daemon was selected first, and then the recommends was conficting :/)
<ochosi> micahg: hey, can we talk about gmusicbrowser-patches again tonight (if you have time)?
<micahg> ochosi: sure, when's 'tonight'
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg, cody-somerville : we need to adjust the colors used on the alternate installer now
<charlie-tca> http://imagebin.org/144143
<micahg> mr_pouit: so, we need our notification daemon specifically?
<charlie-tca> this is a Xubuntu installation
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: I know, this is another last minute change from someone who woke up one morning and thought this was a good idea
<charlie-tca> I know, and the design team got involved and changed the color pallette, to further screw with us
<mr_pouit> I've been following the thread on ubuntu-devel, so I'll update xubuntu-artwork packaging to fix that soon
<charlie-tca> I had hopes we could use this, but these colors actually suck
<mr_pouit> micahg: no (because it works with other daemons), but yes (because xfce4-notifyd is better suited for xfce, it can be themed and its settings changed, unlike notify-osd, and is well integrated in xfce4-settings-manager, unlike all the other ones)
<mr_pouit> *in xfce4-settings-manager and xfconf, of course
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: do we need a bug report to get an FFe?
<charlie-tca> The single workspace seems to be a virtualbox feature only on installs
<charlie-tca> hardware installations give two workspaces
<mr_pouit> charlie-tca: no FFe needed
<mr_pouit> mmh, that's weird then
<charlie-tca> Thank you
<micahg> mr_pouit: what about notification-daemon | xfce4-notifyd?
<micahg> or maybe even the other way around
<mr_pouit> micahg: yeah, I think it's doable, it just needs some manual patching of xubuntu-meta & ubuntu-meta
<mr_pouit> patching = sed, probably
<micahg> heh, well i'm waiting to see what the ubuntu side says about this :)
<mr_pouit> xubuntu-meta previously contained something to do that for gnumeric irrc: gnumeric-gtk | gnumeric
<mr_pouit> micahg: but are you sure these notification-daemons are the cause of the conflict?
<micahg> mr_pouit: it's at least one cause
<mr_pouit> there's other possibilities, like libsdl alsa vs. pulseaudio (I didn't check)
<micahg> I was wondering about that, but I think both are using pulseaudio now
<micahg> at least aptitude seemed to be happy with just notify-osd being pulled
<ochosi> micahg: $tonight == 6pm to 8pm CET ?
<micahg> ochosi: is that UTC +2?
<micahg> oops +1?
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, sry, UTC+1
<micahg> ochosi: can probably do UTC 18:00 - 19:00, meeting at 17:00
<ochosi> micahg: ok, so let's start looking at it around 18:00
<ochosi> micahg: you around?
<micahg> ochosi: around?
<ochosi> micahg: yes but i need one more min
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'm ready
<ochosi> micahg: i did a quick git diff to check what's missing from 1.1.7
<ochosi> micahg: really not much :)
<micahg> ochosi: so, quadrispro uploaded to Debian, Debian ftp's on manual, so it might not be until tomorrow or the next day until it hits, I'd like to review your patches tonight so we can prepare the upload to go in right after Debian or EOD Wed, whichever is first
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> two files we need to add to gmb:
<ochosi> or wait, do you want me to prepare a list of the patches?
<micahg> ochosi: list and diffs please :)
<micahg> ochosi: or just give me your version where I can dget it 
<ochosi> micahg: https://github.com/shimmerproject/gmusicbrowser
<ochosi> but you don't need to pick/review all the differences
<ochosi> e.g. there is an icon theme that we don't need for xubuntu
<micahg> ochosi: right, can you prepare a package or point me to the specific patches I need?
<ochosi> micahg: you mean a debian package?
<micahg> ochosi: yep, if you want
<ochosi> the debian package is in our ppa
<ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ppa
<micahg> ochosi: am I taking all the patches in there?
<ochosi> micahg: and this is approx the patches we need from there: http://pastebin.com/YLk2tEGj
<ochosi> meaning: add the files shimmer.layout and makeitlooklike.layout
<ochosi> and adding a few lines to the other files in that list
<ochosi> the changes are really not much as you can see
<ochosi> it's only UI stuff
<ochosi> no functions
<ochosi> micahg: do you want me to go through the changes with you individually?
<micahg> ochosi: well, I either need a debdiff for the patch or I need to know what it does so I can make sure it works :)
<ochosi> micahg: ok :)
<ochosi> micahg: all the stuff that ends on .layout contain layouts for gmusicbrowser, it has an inbuilt system to rearrange the UI elements. so that's that
<ochosi> micahg: there's nothing much that could really break there, the layout has been tested for ages (~1year)
<ochosi> the lines in gmusicbrowser_layout add two new widgets that inherit everything from their parents and only changes what happens when you click them
<ochosi> micahg: i'm a bit lost on that, what else can i do for you now?
<micahg> ochosi: I wish 1.1.7-1 was dgettable, but it won't be until tomorrow most likely
<micahg> ochosi: a debdiff would be great if you have time
<ochosi> micahg: that shouldn't be a problem, any specific options you want me to add?
<ochosi> micahg: here you go: http://pastebin.com/YbvsSWgr
<ochosi> micahg: note that we don't need pix/Faenza/*
<micahg> ochosi: that's a diff WRT files, if I add all these files as a patch, will that be enough?
<ochosi> micahg: no, the git diff i posted before is the real diff
<micahg> ochosi: there's no diff there and I think I have to go
<ochosi> micahg: when would you have time again?
<micahg> ochosi: in about 2 hrs hopefully
<ochosi> micahg: sorry, not sure i'll be around then... :/
<micahg> ochosi: ok, tomorrow work?
<ochosi> micahg: well actually in the morning i'd have a bit of time
<ochosi> micahg: the rest of the day isn't that great unfortunately
<ochosi> micahg: gotta prepare for a work-trip that starts on friday morning
<micahg> ochosi: ugh, what time is morning?
<ochosi> between 9 and 11?
<micahg> I hope to be sleeping then :)
<ochosi> ok :)
<micahg> ochosi: I'll can be available tonight from UTC 0:00 to UTC 6:00, but I guess you'll be sleeping then :)
<ochosi> micahg: you could simply "git clone https://github.com/shimmerproject/gmusicbrowser.git" and then take the diff between 2703644caf9f3f66025cea78959c026bc97638b1 and master
<ochosi> micahg: i really hope so, yes ;)
<micahg> ochosi: ok, I'll try that, thanks
<ochosi> micahg: thanks for your help
<micahg> ochosi: you're welcome
<ochosi> micahg: if you need more explanations on what the individual patches/changes do, feel free to ping me anytime
<ochosi> micahg: i read the backlog, so i'd answer maybe tomorrow morning
<ochosi> micahg: but as i said, it's all just UI stuff, changing popup-menus etc
<micahg> ochosi: do you have a sane author commit name set so I can use that in the patch?
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, just use "Simon SteinbeiÃ"
<micahg> ochosi: ok
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-22
<charlie-tca> Good morning
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-23
<ochosi> micahg: any news about gmusicbrowser?
<mr_pouit> +1, any eta for gmb and xfce4-mixer?
<mr_pouit> beta freeze starts tomorrow
<mr_pouit> which means it won't be in the archive before april if it's not uploaded today
<mr_pouit> micahg: ^
<micahg> mr_pouit: ugh, I have some security updates I have to get up today, I can get mixer in tonight, I'm still not so clear on gmusicbrowser, but I might be able to have that done as well, if you have time to do it, feel free, 1.1.7 was uploaded to Debian, so it just needs a sync + ochosi's patches
<mr_pouit> mmh, that's a bit short for me, I won't have time before tomorrow
<mr_pouit> I can try, but no promise
<micahg> mr_pouit: ok, then I'll try to do it late tonight
<micahg> mr_pouit: it's a quick build, so it shouldn't be much of a problem anyways
<Sysi> was it already mentioned that bug about shutdown throwing to login screen seems to be upstream, also in fedora
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<micahg> mr_pouit: won't be a problem beta freeze is 23:00 UTC tomorrow
<charlie-tca> micahg: Are you committed for testing arm images next week?
<micahg> I was wondering about that..I have to figure out how to install it, but yeah, I could do that
<micahg> which ones?
<charlie-tca> Okay, just Xubuntu if we get it built
<charlie-tca> armel/imx51
<micahg> ok, I think that's fine
<charlie-tca> Thanks
<charlie-tca> Got to order a new trackball, mine died at three years
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg, cody-somerville, ochosi, anyone else that needs to know:
<charlie-tca> UserInterfaceFreeze and BetaFreeze for Natty is March 24, at 23:00 UTC
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-24
<micahg> mr_pouit: wow, you got that uploaded, thanks
<charlie-tca> I am going to lunch, will hopefully be back for the meeting today.
<charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 2 minutes. Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
<micahg> charlie-tca: I'll be in and out for the meeting
<charlie-tca> Works for me. Thanks
 * charlie-tca is ordereing a new $130 US keyboard w/ trackball
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: you, me, cody-somerville , and vinnl need to get together and look at Xubuntu Team member additions
<micahg> mr_pouit: should I leave xubuntu-dev as maintainer for xfce4-mixer or ubuntu-dev
<mr_pouit> micahg: yes, use xubuntu-dev please
<charlie-tca> We might see some more people asking how to help in here. 
<charlie-tca> We can give them some guidance on what to do, as far as testing, bugs, wiki, docs, etc.
 * Unit193 is already here
<micahg> mr_pouit: and I'm changing the Vcs-* to X-Debian-Vcs-*
<micahg> mr_pouit: uploaded
<Unit193> I'm sorry if this isn't the place to post. http://xubuntu.org/news/natty/alpha-2 points to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/11.04/alpha-2/ and that gives a 404 error (That's fixed if you change alpha-2 with alpha-3, but the latest on the Xubuntu site says Alpha2 is the newist?)
<charlie-tca> It is normal for the milestone links to become obsolete when a new milestone is hit. However, we should be telling you alpha3 is available. Is that also in the new releases?
<charlie-tca> Is that in news?
<Unit193> No, it's not in the news
<charlie-tca> Thanks. We need to fix that
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-25
<charlie-tca> Good morning
<Unit193> Good morning charlie-tca!
<micahg> ochosi: BTW, Debian took the Shimmer patches for gmusicbrowser
<charlie-tca> images seem to be working today. At least both alternate images installed! and, mr_pouit, great job on the colors. Thanks again.
<charlie-tca> mr_pouit: We got something wrong with the workspaces. Now both alternate and desktop images give a single workspace in Virtualbox installations. Live cd has two workspaces.
<ochosi> micahg: hey, how come?
<micahg> ochosi: because they're nice?
<ochosi> micahg: you mean debian or the patches?
<micahg> ochosi: Debian :)
<ochosi> micahg: hm, tbh i really would've preferred debian to keep the upstream version and only xubuntu have the patched version
<micahg> ochosi: why?
<ochosi> micahg: i don't wanna piss off the upstream dev by going around him and submitting my patches (that he knows about) to distros "behind his back"
<micahg> ochosi: they grabbed it :)
<ochosi> micahg: you mean just like that?
<micahg> ochosi: yep, I didn't do it :)
<ochosi> woot?
<micahg> yep
<ochosi> how the hell, i mean who the hell...
<micahg> although now, I'm tempted to try to just put everything through Debian next cycle
<micahg> alessio
<ochosi> hmm, not sure, really wanna talk to squentin first
<ochosi> it's really imperative for me that he's happy with it
<ochosi> and i'm not all sure i would be if i were in his place
<micahg> ochosi: well, if it's in Ubuntu, there's pretty much no reason not to have it back in Debian
<ochosi> micahg: i'm not sure i agree, debian is ubuntu's upstream, not the other way round
<ochosi> micahg: and: i specifically talked to squentin about patching gmb for ubuntu, but i also said at the time that it was only about ubuntu
<ochosi> micahg: he agreed on that, but now it looks a bit like i'm a douche
<ochosi> micahg: hope you understand my position in this
<micahg> ochosi: well, I can talk to alessio and get it reversed in Debian if it's a big deal
<charlie-tca> ochosi, micahg, mr_pouit : we only get 1 workspace from any image now when installing.
<charlie-tca> live cd has two workspaces
<ochosi> micahg: i
<ochosi> micahg: i'll first talk to squentin about it and see what he thinks/how he reacts
<ochosi> charlie-tca: strange, i just added a new testuser to natty two days ago and got two workspaces
<charlie-tca> fresh install only gives one
<ochosi> hm, this is a really strange bug
<ochosi> charlie-tca: i'm currently on a work-trip (till wednesday), i hope i'll have time to try a fresh install when i'm back and maybe we can debug it a bit and narrow it down
<charlie-tca> okay, but we got beta1 release on Thursday
<ochosi> hmm
<Sysi> i'll try
<ochosi> yeah, but i really can't do more testing here @hotel... :(
<Sysi> 1H to download..
<ochosi> good luck Sysi
<charlie-tca> I understand that one. It will be fine. We need to make sure we get it fixed for the beta2, though, please.
<Sysi> charlie-tca: alternate/desktop both?
<charlie-tca> both
<ochosi> charlie-tca: is there a bugreport for that already?
<charlie-tca> um, nope
<Sysi> i'd like to see colours of alternate but it's unsure on usb :/
<charlie-tca> just me compaining daily
<charlie-tca> the colors suck, we get a pink background with the orange and purple/pink/grey text
<charlie-tca> but after the install, colors are good now!
<charlie-tca> I will have to try some hardware installs this weekend, to see what I get now. Then I will file the bug. 
<micahg> ochosi: you can tell him you and I didn't do this, but in the end, it's open source and Debian can do what it wants with it
<ochosi> micahg: hmyeah, i'll see what replies
<Sysi> ubiquity still isn't nice, but i really like graybird
<knome> ubiquity isn't nice?
<charlie-tca> ubiquity uses the Ubuntu default colors, but once installed, we don't have to look at them again.
<knome> you don't mean the slideshow, right?
 * charlie-tca don't mean the slideshow
<Sysi> i haven't got that far yet
<charlie-tca> that background behind it, and the installer up to it
<Sysi> "custom partitioning" is now "something else", popup about keyboard settings is stupid and with 512MB ram I/O get so bad that mouse isn't moving because of swapping
<charlie-tca> yup, but at least you can now upgrade from the cd, right?
<charlie-tca> custom partitioning is "manual partitioning" now, isn't it?
<charlie-tca> you can have "side-by-side", "upgrade", "full-disk", or the bottom one, which I think is "manual" 
<Sysi> for me it said "something else"
<charlie-tca> What language are you installing in?
<Sysi> i think that wasn't even translated..
 * charlie-tca might not have read it all
<Sysi> too much english, i can't really remember
<charlie-tca> I will do another install and try to read it
<Sysi> KB bug propably will be fixed
<Sysi> ("bug")
<charlie-tca> I like filing bugs for bad wording
<Sysi> i have two workspaces, installed from current daily-live
<charlie-tca> hm, hardware right?
<charlie-tca> definitely a very weird bug
<Sysi> yeah, hw
<charlie-tca> Sysi: thanks for doing the install. At least it is not just me :-)
 * charlie-tca did installs in VBox, got one workspace, did installs on hardware, did not believe there could be two workspaces.
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-26
<charlie-tca> Good morning
#xubuntu-devel 2011-03-27
<micahg> can someone confirm an issue for me?
<Sysi> what's making that letter-icon in indicator plugin, indicator messages?
<ochosi> micahg: what's the issue?
<ochosi> Sysi: letter == envelope?
<micahg> ochosi: bug 743689
<Sysi> that
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 743689 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Window selector will not switch windows when there is a drop down selector" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/743689
<ochosi> Sysi: that's the messaging-indicator
<Sysi> closest package i can find is indicator-messages
<ochosi> micahg: i'll quickly reboot to natty to see whether i can confirm that, but could you tell me what exactly happens when clicking a drop-down? it should show the list of grouped windows, no?
<ochosi> Sysi: yes, that's what i meant
<Sysi> also, should xfce4-power manager support indicator applet?
<micahg> ochosi: yes, then it should switch to the window you select, doesn't work for me
<ochosi> Sysi: it should integrate pidgin and hopefully at some point thunderbird
<ochosi> micahg: ok, i'll see whether i can confirm it
<Sysi> i use neither..
<micahg> messaging menu for TB should be next cycle
<ochosi> Sysi: then feel free to uninstall the package, that will also remove the indicator
<micahg> it'll be discussed at UDS
<Sysi> hum, nm-applet fails with icon on systray, otherly i wouldn't use indicators
<micahg> Sysi: it should fall back to systray if there's no indicator-plugin
<Sysi> but icon's failing then, propably nm-applet issue, worked at 10.10
<ochosi> Sysi: works for me
<ochosi> micahg: i can confirm that bug
<micahg> I'm using the indicator plugin
<micahg> ochosi: cool, can you comment and I'll milestone it
<ochosi> micahg: yes, i think this should go upstream. iirc though we don't have grouping enabled by default (at least i hope)
<Sysi> ochosi: well it works, but shows some weird icon, could be in my theme too
<ochosi> Sysi: i only tried with greybird and elementaryXubuntu, worked fine with that
<Sysi> good
<ochosi> micahg: done
<micahg> ochosi: it's for overflow grouping for me
<micahg> ochosi: thanks
<ochosi> np
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-19
<nonau> I've been testing the Beta disk of Xubuntu Pangolin as a live user.   I've noticed improvements in video, especially in full screen.  The incremental improvements are quite welcome.
<nonau> I have noticed an artifact on the lower right hand corner in of the screen however.  Is this just my hardware using the open ati drivers or is it a known issue like the resize handle in the last development series?
<nonau> I also see that the notification area applet is greyed out.  Is this a design decision or a bug?
<pleia2> nonau: thanks for doing testing :) unfortunately you caught us while most of the devs are sleeping
<pleia2> (and I'm almost there myeslf!)
<nonau> pleia2:  You're quite welcome.   It is indeed unfortunate timing then. 
<pleia2> nonau: I'd suggest submitting bugs in both cases, I'm not sure as to the answer to either question
<nonau> pleia2: Are there any logs in particular which I should consider attaching then?  I've got some free time to do it now.
<pleia2> nonau: perhaps a screenshot for both to demonstrate what you're talking about?
<pleia2> I'm not sure beyond that
<nonau> Alright, thank you.
<pleia2> sure, sorry I couldn't be more helpful :)
<nonau> bugs reported per request
<ochosi> meh, where are those bugreports, i can't find them...
<ochosi> pleia2: feel free to ping me whenever you're up on the audio-stuff :)
<knome> when wife goes to work, i could look at the stuff too (just updated the laptop to most recent stuff yesterday)
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> btw, are you one of those lp-wizards who could find the bugs reported by nonau earlier?
<knome> i also have a popping sound from the speakers (probably something to do with power issues and the soundcard going off/on)
<knome> i think i should look into that too...
<ochosi> yeah, would be good to get that sorted for the lts
<knome> that's probably about the hardware though
<ochosi> yeah, could be
<knome> most likely is
<knome> there isn't almost a single hardware piece in that laptop that worked OOTB :P
<ochosi> pff :)
<knome> yeah.
<ochosi> i guess then i can call myself lucky, because for my dell everything always worked ootb
<knome> yup
<knome> well, i suppose dell is better than most
<ochosi> yeah, that cooperation between them and canonical at least bore that fruit
<ochosi> (even if not financial revenue for canonical)
<knome> ;)
<technology_> so i noticed you guys changed the logo on a single person's vote
<technology_> here's a discussion about it
<technology_> http://boards.4chan.org/g/res/23645521
<technology_> oh and here's a new one
<technology_> http://i.imgur.com/madsR.png
<technology_> although the old one was definitely best
<technology_> well that's all i have to say
<ochosi> technology_: hi
<technology_> hi
<ochosi> there is quite a lot of trolling noise in that discussion tbh
<technology_> anonymity brings honesty
<ochosi> i think you missed my point
<ochosi> but anyway, the meetings are open
<ochosi> so basically if you (or anyone else from that discussion on 4chan) wanted to attend it and vote, there would've been no stopping you
<technology_> it's a messed up procedure to vote on important things at an IRC meeting at a certain time and date
<technology_> should be a poll somewhere else
<technology_> it passed by one vote, that makes no sense
<ochosi> yeah, we discussed that again after that meeting
<ochosi> the meeting procedure is one point of the argument, and i agree that should be re-thought
<technology_> as should all votes that came from it..even a 12 hour window or 24 hour window for user input is more fair
<technology_> imagine if we changed the american flag on the basis of one vote
<ochosi> tbh there are hardly any design decisions in this distribution that are based on user input
<ochosi> (i'm speaking mainly about artwork now)
<ochosi> the main reason for that being that there is hardly any feedback
<technology_> there's hardly any feedback due to the convoluted meeting structure
<technology_> just finding this channel was a maze
<knome> this channel isn't exactly hidden
<ochosi> this, of course, can in part be blamed on us because we're probably not providing a good enough way for feedback
<knome> neither is our mailing list
<knome> to be fair, if you are at all connected with the development of xubuntu, you will know both exist
<ochosi> but the other thing is that there aren't very many people who want to really get involved
<Tadpole> irc discussions are too fleeting in nature, it's a good way for discussions, not feedback or voting
<ochosi> Tadpole: why is it not a good way of giving feedback?
<ochosi> technology_: feedback or input can be given at any time. meetings are just a way to get to formal decisions/reports about things
<Tadpole> ochosi: the person that you want to reach may not be online
<knome> if things like this matter to you so much, why aren't you more active on the places where development happens?
<Tadpole> when that person comes online, (s)he can't see what was said
<Tadpole> unless there are logs, ofc.
<knome> no, there is logs
<ochosi> Tadpole: theoretically yes, practically everyone can read logs
<ochosi> Tadpole: also: most of us are always here and read their backlog when pinged
<knome> seriously, the xubuntu development happens inside such a small group of people that irc is actually pretty fine
<Tadpole> okay then, forget what I said
<Tadpole> for stuff like voting, you'd still be better off with surveymonkey or something similar
<knome> we've been trying to get hold of the community in the past, but we have never got any feedback
<wutwutwut> ``What do you mean you didn't know the Earth was scheduled for destruction?  The proposal was filed in the planning office at Procyon Centauri barely four light-years away!''
<knome> things like surveymonkey will allow skewed results
<technology_> wutwutwut: fitting
<ochosi> the thing is, i really appreciate both of you (Tadpole,technology_) speaking up, it's sometimes pretty silent in here. would be nice if you got involved somehow
<knome> technology_, Tadpole: i agree with ochosi. i'd really like to get some feedback, but really, i'd like to get it BEFORE we do some changes
<metalmatt13> I have a question...Is xubuntu free?
<knome> metalmatt13, it is free of charge
<technology_> uh believe it or not i monitor every meeting with this distribution; usually through the public logs
<technology_> that's why i was surprised a big decision like this was made so quickly
<metalmatt13> and if not is there any chance of it becoming free
<metalmatt13> I mean free as in freedom
<technology_> so i asked my friends about it and they were all surprised too, a lot of them actually use xubuntu
<technology_> i have to go for a bit
<yaknowthatguy> yo
<knome> while anonymity might bring honesty, it also brings trolling. now, all of you from 4chan, stop trolling or you will find yourself out of this channel
<yaknowthatguy> new logo looks weird
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu | Bugs List: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/PrecisePangolin | Daily Testing results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/204/builds
<yaknowthatguy> question: why isn't xubuntu free?
<knome> metalmatt13, please define "freedom" first
<metalmatt13> This website has more info on it
<metalmatt13> http://www.fsf.org/
<knome> we do ship packages that are not free as defined by FSF. there is an installation option not to allow these packages to be installed, though, on the installer
<metalmatt13> Here is a good link
<metalmatt13> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html
<metalmatt13> Alright
<knome> is there anything else i can help you with?
<metalmatt13> Nope that would be it
<knome> yaknowthatguy, did you get your answer too, or should i try to clarify?
<yaknowthatguy> nah it's cool
<ochosi> :)
<Mullins> hi
<knome> hello
<Mullins> i came here just to say that the new logo is terrible
<Mullins> please don't change it
<knome> thanks for the feedback
<ochosi> anyway, just to get this to some constructive point: the new logo has been decided at an open meeting. if you want to be part of future decisions feel free to come here more often and contribute.
<Mullins> seriously, just keep it the way it is
<knome> the new logo has been uploaded to 12.04
<Mullins> oh god
<ochosi> s/god/good
<knome> i encourage continuous contributing too :)
<Mullins> you really should reconsider
<Charit> thats bad news.
<Mullins> once it goes public you'll get even more negative feedback
<knome> as ochosi said, it's been decided at an open meeting
<Mullins> how many voted?
<Mullins> and what was the margin?
<knome> 5 people vote, with a margin of one, iirc, but that's not weird in the very small community.
<yaknowthatguy> 5 people? That's not much at all.
<Mullins> 5 people?
<ochosi> yeah, if you follow the development of xubuntu, this will not surprise you
<knome> yaknowthatguy, metalmatt13: that's like about how many people involve in the xubuntu development
<ochosi> there aren't many more people doing the work :)
<knome> + a few
<mr_pouit> that's the average number of voters, it has always been like that
<metalmatt13> Do you think in the future there will be a re vote?
<knome> metalmatt13, most possibly not in the near future.
<metalmatt13> ok
<ochosi> i think the next (sensible) chance to change the logo again is the next lts
<knome> maybe the next time we are choosing a new logo
<knome> ochosi, that's most probably true, it was 2 years (the last LTS) when we changed the last time :)
<Mullins> guys, LXDE is starting to gain on you. you can't just change things right now
<yaknowthatguy> Should of asked what the public thought, the users ya know.
<Mullins> please keep the logo as it was before
<Mullins> you have no idea how many people get mad over this
<knome> Mullins, err, i'm happy if lxde does well, it's not a fight
<metalmatt13> I don't beleive the logo is that big of a deal
<ochosi> yaknowthatguy: that is really difficult, ya know :)
<ochosi> metalmatt13: +1
<mr_pouit> there's no competition between lubuntu and xubuntu (at least from the developers' pov)
<yaknowthatguy> how?
<metalmatt13> and xfce and lxde try two completely different things
<Mullins> you guys have to treat this like a competition
<knome> Mullins, no, we don't, and we won't
<Mullins> everybody knows xfce is better 
<ochosi> Mullins: i disagree, i'm doing this in my free time without any financial gain. why should i compete? i'd rather cooperate with them
<knome> Mullins, it is not a competition, it is about providing the best possible OS we can, and lubuntu does the same
<Mullins> lxde is not enough, period
<knome> Mullins, then don't use lxde
<metalmatt13> It's preference, but I personally love xfce way more, lxde is a little more light weight though
<metalmatt13> not bay far though
<metalmatt13> by*
<Mullins> im just trying to warn you that this will make people upset when it goes stable
<ochosi> yaknowthatguy: well for one, the mailinglist and the irc channel are pretty silent. not many people want to get involved
<Mullins> this is just the beginning
<ochosi> Mullins: "this"?
<yaknowthatguy> A poll on the site?
<knome> Mullins, we got your point.
<metalmatt13> Mullins: I think there are more things to worry about in a distribution than the logo.
<metalmatt13> It's just a small cosmetic feature
<knome> the idea of voting in xubuntu is not meant to be anonymous as in 4chan - the idea is to have the USERS of xubuntu vote
<Mullins> i understand that the logo isnt a huge deal, but you need to understand that geeks freak out over everything
<metalmatt13> Which, I'm sure you could change yourself if you really dislike it
<knome> that's why most of the ideas are born dead - if we had 100 votes, i'd be worried about all of them coming from xubuntu users
<knome> Mullins, okay, we get that, can you move on?
<yaknowthatguy> so like if a professional graphic designer that has been in the industry for years and years means less than a guy that used xubuntu for a few minutes?
<knome> no.
<knome> they should have the same weight on voting.
<knome> but if you are not a xubuntu user, then why should you be able to vote?
<ochosi> yup, that's why there should be restrictions like being on the launchpad xubuntu-users team
<knome> does the public people decide which logo apple will use?
<yaknowthatguy> was there an a message on the homepage announcing this?
<wutwutwut> My opinion: the new logo sucks, but if you did a massive community poll for every minor change you'd never get anything done.
<ochosi> knome: are you feeding trolls? :)
<herpaderp01> I'd just like to interject for a moment and say that I agree with Mullins, the new logo hardly resembles a mouse at all. 
<ochosi> wutwutwut: yup
<yaknowthatguy> that's different, apple isn't a community based thing.
<knome> yaknowthatguy, there was a message on the twitter feed and there was the usual call for meeting in the mailing list.
<Mullins> it looks like a gnome foot
<Mullins> its not unique at all
<knome> ochosi, you're right :)
<knome> Mullins, thanks for the feedback. is there anything else we can help you with?
<yaknowthatguy> @xubuntu?
<meetingology> yaknowthatguy: Error: "xubuntu?" is not a valid command.
<Mullins> nobody can tell the icon is a mouse
<knome> yaknowthatguy, @xubuntulinux
<Mullins> it looks like a gnome foot
<knome> Mullins, thank you.
<knome> the feedback is appreciated
<Mullins> you guys should hold a vote for the public if you want real feedback
<Mullins> this irc room is honest
<knome> Mullins, the meeting was open
<knome> Mullins, the meeting was held in this honest, as you say, irc room.
<yaknowthatguy> A twitter with 250 people following is better than the site which has a much broader view?
<Mullins> the meeting was open but only 5 people voted
<ochosi> Mullins: feel free to propose a new voting procedure at the next meeting :)
<Mullins> you should have the users vote
<mr_pouit> (and again, that's the average number of voters)
<Mullins> not if you put a poll on xubuntu.com
<Mullins> please try it
<knome> as i've said before, we have announced the meeting, and to be fair, anybody at least remotely tied with the xubuntu development will know of the mailing list, which got the email about the meeting along with a link to the agenda
<mr_pouit> (so it's fine when you agree with the decisions, but worth a post on 4chan when you disagree...)
<knome> to whomever posting the question about the new logo in small sizes on 4chan; yes, the new logo will work better on small sizes
<yaknowthatguy> Why not? Asking others if they agree with them.
<Mullins> it works better on small sizes im sure, but it doesnt even look like a mouse/rat anymore
<Mullins> it looks like a gnome foot
<Mullins> you have to retain your identity
<Mullins> keep it looking like a cute mouse/rat
<Mullins> people like that kind of thing
<knome> Mullins, one more time, thanks for the feedback. if there is nothing new you can bring to the discussion, please stop repeating
<Mullins> this is the only discussion that is happening
<knome> exactly, and we've heard your opinion
<knome> no-one is even disagreeing it
<technology_> I find the statistics at popcon (http://popcon.ubuntu.com/by_inst) very interesting, 111,071 xubuntu installs (going by installs of the meta package xubuntu-default-settings) and yet 5 votes or less on most matters...i think some things should still be discussed here but not everyone can get to a meeting in IRC at a set time...more important issues should be brought to a web poll with one vote per IP, or maybe a vote on launchp
<knome> technology_, as mr_pouit brought out before, 5 votes is about the count we have decided on other things too before, since there hasn't been more active community members
<mr_pouit> we welcome people who want to get involved, unfortunately, not so many :(
<technology_> Anyway, I'm glad my 4chan thread could allow some members of the communityt to know more about the development process and maybe some of us can get involved...I was not aware that there was much to do in a distro that's mainly art and merging of upstream xfce changes
<knome> i completely agree with the thing that the voting system should be changed - this is why it is on my list for the Q cycle
<Mullins> i agree with technology. a vote should be put on a website somewhere.
<knome> as long as it can be hooked to launchpad and the xubuntu-users group, it's an option
<knome> i don't think there is a wordpress plugin to do that though, and judging on the contributor quantity, it looks like i had to write that, and i'm not sure if it's reasonable to use that much time for that only
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> oh, too bad he got uninterested. he could've written the plugin.
<yaknowthatguy> Why do they have to be xubuntu users anyways?
<knome> currently, joining the group is open
<knome> and most probably will be in the future as well
<technology_> knome: this is very simple, file a bug report on launchpad each time, have voting in the comments for 24 hours, close the bug report
<technology_> only xubuntu-users can vote on it
<technology_> there's no need to do anything else, only to extend the amount of time that xubuntu-users and xubuntu-developers can vote
<ochosi> technology_: why not propose that at the next meeting and discuss it?
<knome> technology_, that's not very efficient
<technology_> because i can't be here at the meetings, they're at a bad time for me
<ochosi> anyway, it's been nice to see some discussions in here, i'm off to do some work
<knome> see you later ochosi 
<ochosi> see you
<knome> technology_, extending the voting time is a good idea
<technology_> knome: i don't see how that's not efficient, there's what, one or two vote issues every week
<technology_> you can even script it
<knome> imo, the best option would clearly be voting integrated to launchpad
<knome> technology_, who does count the comments?
<knome> technology_, how to make sure there is no irrelevant comments, or flaming?
<technology_> well like you said it shouldn't be hard to count five or so comments
<technology_> this way it might only get up to 10
<technology_> knome: i can work on a userscript if you'd like to search for the text "Vote for option n" in each comment and not count two votes from the same user...comments without this text will be ignored
<knome> what was the popcon statistics comment about then? i thought you were suggesting we could get 111k votes.
<technology_> no, i'm just saying 111k people use xubuntu
<technology_> so for a dev team to be this small, it's pretty strange
<technology_> that was my comment
<knome> no, that's not the point. afaik there is no way to restrict commenting to single or a few groups only in LP
<knome> and bugs are not really the right way to go for voting, bugs are for bugs
<Mullins> I'm all for a public vote on http://xubuntu.org/
<technology_> it could work if limited to one vote/IP range
<knome> Mullins, as i said, once it's possible to hook that with LP, it's an option
<knome> technology_, no, LP doesn't have that technology
<yaknowthatguy> Repeating my comment.  Why do they have to be xubuntu users anyways?
<knome> yaknowthatguy, that's what reads in the strategy document, written by a previous project lead
<knome> and i agree with that
<Mullins> because that makes the most sense
<technology_> uh knome if i could just direct your attention to something
<technology_> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users
<technology_> there's a polls thing right to the right of the page
<technology_> does this not work?
<technology_> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/+poll/xubuntu-panel-layout
<technology_> look there even was a poll once in 2008
<technology_> looks like the votes were purged
<knome> technology_, i suppose it does; tbh, we haven't looked much into this public voting, since there hasn't been any feedback
<mr_pouit> the lp team disabled team polls in 2011, but apparently they reenabled them...
<technology_> it's an option
<technology_> do you mind if i write about it to the mailing list?
<knome> yes, it definitely is an option once we get to discuss the voting
<knome> technology_, please do
<mr_pouit> (http://blog.launchpad.net/general/team-polls-restored-but-future-is-unclear)
<knome> mmh
<technology_> alright, i'll research it more
<knome> we'd have to check if polling is suddenly going to disappear again...
<technology_> for now i have to go to work
<technology_> if a large team was using it they wouldn't remove it
<wutwutwut> Warning: incoming /b/tard.
<technology_> as in really using it
<technology_> i don't think anyone's using it currently
<knome> "It is also not possible to contact every member of team in Launchpad. How do team members ever know when a team admin creates a poll?"
<knome> ^ doesn't sound good
<technology_> if they're active in development
<technology_> then they know
<knome> doesn't sound any different than sending an email to ML
<mr_pouit> (but if you post the link to the poll on the mailing list, might work)
<knome> if they are, they already know
<technology_> it just opens up a time
<knome> since it's posted to the development mailing list
<technology_> but they can't vote at the time
<technology_> anyway, ill write more on the ml
<yaknowthatguy> Development mailing list?
<technology_> for now i need to leave
<knome> yaknowthatguy, yes
<yaknowthatguy> Wasn't this for the general xubuntu user?
<knome> yaknowthatguy, yes, but the developer mailing list is for development issues
<knome> yaknowthatguy, -users list is for support
<yaknowthatguy> Well yea.
<knome> yaknowthatguy, and everybody is free to join the -devel list
<yaknowthatguy> I know.
<knome> so those who are interested in development, should be subscribed anyway to -devel
<wutwutwut> http://images.4chan.org/g/src/1332155280443.png
<knome> hmm, interesting artistic impression. i thought one cheek only had one eye
<wutwutwut> I think it's meant to be a bunny, facing the opposite direction from the mouse.
<knome> http://images.4chan.org/g/src/1332150994403.jpg <- THAT looks like a bunny
<HechtiQ> hey
<knome> hello
<knome> hey GridCube 
<GridCube> knome, sorry, did you said something? my internets are failing on me
<ochosi> GridCube: you didn't miss anything since "hey GridCube" :)
<GridCube> oh ok :) thanks ochosi 
<ochosi> np
<astraljava> Hiya GridC ... (Read Error: Connection reset by peer)
<ochosi> lol
<knome> GridCube, hai
<GridCube> hai :P
<GridCube> im figthing against my proxy
<astraljava> That's one abstract fight indeed.
<astraljava> knome: re: bugs, and especially bugmail, being a member of Xubuntu Team makes me automatically subscribed to the majority of it, right?
<knome> should
<mr_pouit> ~xubuntu-bugs is better I think
<mr_pouit> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-bugs
<knome> hmm, three members
<ochosi> hey leo-unglaub 
<astraljava> Yeah, maybe ~xubuntu-team should be a subteam of it?
<astraljava> Or would that be too much?
<mr_pouit> no, most people don't want all the bugmail
<mr_pouit> ... I think
<knome> astraljava, looks like xubuntu team WAS a member
<mr_pouit> (that was the reason for the separate team)
<knome> yeah, what i'm getting from xubuntu-team and ubuntustudio-devel is enough :P
<astraljava> Well, I joined it now.
 * Myrtti waves hand to knome
<Myrtti> tara
<Pjotr> Hi, I have a question about lightdm-gtk-greeter in Xubuntu 12.04
<Pjotr> As some of you may know, I'm a translator of the Ubuntu Dutch Translators team. In Xubuntu 11.10, we have fully translated lightdm-gtk-greeter into Dutch.
<Pjotr> But in Xubuntu 12.04, everything in the greeter is in English again. And I can't find out where to translate it... Does anybody know?
<mr_pouit> https://launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter
<mr_pouit> you need to bug the maintainer until he sets up things correctly in launchpad...
<mr_pouit> good luck, he's very hard to reach :]
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: Would that be Robert Ancell?
<mr_pouit> yes
 * knome is waiting "i'm his neighbour!"
<knome> but that's not going to happen..
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: Maybe you know in which IRC channel Robert Ancell usually hangs out?
<knome> Pjotr, none :|
<ochosi> Pjotr: i tried to contact him ~2weeks back, no answer until now (via email)
<ochosi> maybe you have more luck via a bugreport...
<Pjotr> OK.... I'll file a bug report and let you know, so that you can support it
<ochosi> good plan
<mr_pouit> Pjotr: if you still have no answer after the beta 2 release, ping me about that
<Pjotr> There are other team members in the LightDM Development Team, besides Robert Ancell. Has anybody tried contacting one of those: https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-team
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: thanks, will do that. :-)
<mr_pouit> most of them are working on ubuntu-desktop/unity, so not on the gtk-greeter (only unity-greeter)
<mr_pouit> I'm working on that with didrocks
<Pjotr> OK, here's the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/959397
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959397 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "In Precise, lightdm-gtk-greeter is entirely untranslatable" [Undecided,New]
<Pjotr> Support is welcome. :-)
<ochosi> Pjotr: ok, bumped status to "confirmed" ;)
<Pjotr> Another matter: Xubuntu 12.04 has a great new addition: a menu editor. Thanks, guys! :-)
<Pjotr> I would like to improve the Dutch translation of this menu editor. But I can't find it in Launchpad... Does anybody know?
<ochosi> it's alacarte
<mr_pouit> hop, I created a team for the gtk greeter, and didrocks gave admin rights to it
<ochosi> (it's mostly alacarte working again with the xfce menu)
<Pjotr> ochosi: thanks. :-)
<ochosi> yw
<mr_pouit> I'll set up translations this evening
<Pjotr> mr_pouit: Great! Thank you.
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Wouldn't hurt if someone from US team joined it, no?
<Pjotr> One last issue: I'm also an upstream translator for Xfce. Upstream at Xfce, I tried to convince Nick to do a new release of xfce4-power-manager, solely for getting the new Dutch translation downstream (which has been waiting for almost a year now).
<Pjotr> Apparently he's not enthusiastic about it, because he doesn't want to release old goodies without new application code.
<Pjotr> Is there still a way of getting the drastically improved Dutch translation into xfce4-power-manager in Xubuntu 12.04?
<mr_pouit> I set up translatations
<mr_pouit> erf, too late
<pleia2> knome: did the 32-bit images stop building the same day we switched to non-pae?
<pleia2> ochosi: my laptop doesn't have a mute button :( but if there are other tests I can do...
<pleia2> I'm working right now, but can squeeze things in as needed
<ochosi> pleia2: hey!
<ochosi> well if xfce4-mixer still works and we still get notifications from that, that's already one good thing to know
<pleia2> yep, that worked fine
<ochosi> i'll try to set up an install today or tomorrow
<ochosi> to test the mute-button thingy
<ochosi> oh in fact there might be something else you could test
<ochosi> after following these instructions, does xfce4-mixer still work as expected: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed/+bug/883485/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883485 in xfce4-volumed "Pulse Audio don't get unmuted when XF86AudioMute is used" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<ochosi> and does the sound-indicator stillwork
<pleia2> is /active-card a placeholder or an actual thing?
<ochosi> it's the name of the xfconf-property you're setting with the command
<ochosi> you can do the same thing by going to menu>settings>settings editor and then select xfce4-mixer on the left and change the value of the property active-card on the right
<ochosi> this is what it looks like by default: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03192012-053800pm.php
<ochosi> and this is what it should look like: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03192012-053923pm.php
<ochosi> probably you have to restart your session though
<pleia2> ok
<ochosi> ty!
<pleia2> http://paste.ubuntu.com/890909/
<pleia2> didn't actually seem to make any changes, and the mixer still works fine
<ochosi> humm, could you look at the settings editor and check the values there just to be sure?
<pleia2> active card in the settings manager is showing HDAATISBAlsamixer
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> then please set it to PlaybackInternalAudioAnalogStereoPulseAudioMixer there
<pleia2> it doesn't stick
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> any error message?
<pleia2> I add it, navigate away from that pane in the Xfconf editor, then go back and it's back to HDAA
<pleia2> nope
<ochosi> are you on a live-system?
<pleia2> no, installed on disk
<ochosi> strange
<ochosi> then i guess you can't test that. at least i wouldn't wanna hassle you into trying with sudo...
<pleia2> I can do it as sudo
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ^ is there a good reason a user can't edit xfconf properties?
<ochosi> pleia2: yeah, but i'm not 100% sure of the consequences, so...
<pleia2> Property "/active-card" does not exist on channel "xfce4-mixer".  If a new
<pleia2> property should be created, use the --create option.
<pleia2> ^^ it's not happy anyway
<pleia2> that's with sudo
<ochosi> but the property exists according to the settings-editor?
<pleia2> yep
<pleia2> it didn't give that error as my normal user
<ochosi> probably the property doesn't exist for root
<ochosi> but exists for the normal user
 * pleia2 nods
<ochosi> (just guessing)
<pleia2> I'm now a manager on that G+ page (he was happy to share, even give it to us, but I asked him to remain owner and just add me as a manager)
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> how did you find out who owns it?
<pleia2> made a post that I only shared with Xubuntu
<ochosi> ah, clever :)
<ochosi> do you think we can motivate him to do more blogging on xubuntu's behalf?
<pleia2> I hope so
<pleia2> he seemed excited about being a part of it all :)
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> it's really hard sometimes to communicate with people who aren't on irc
<ochosi> (or instant-messaging in general)
<GridCube> how do i know wich release version im testing?
<GridCube> in the iso.qa tracker says the current is 2012319.1 but how do i know if thats the one i zsyncked 2 hours ago?
<knome> pleia2, most probably yes, but cjwatson has looked into it today, fixed it, and we should have new builds again
<GridCube> :/ i dont know if i got an answer to my question, of it even got posted, how do i know wich version of the iso i just tested?
<knome> GridCube, i don't know
<knome> GridCube, there ought to be some kind of sign, but...
<knome> i've asked that from #ubuntu-release
<GridCube> oh i just tried to zsync it again and it said i have 100% of the file so i bet i have the last one :D
<knome> there's no new i386 builds since march 15, unless maybe today :)
<GridCube> i had to zsynck more thant 75% of the file :P
<knome> mm-hmm.
<GridCube> i can not connect to the internet with todays iso, i've installed it to a vbox so it might not be recognizing it?
<GridCube> the mouse integration stoped working a long ago also
<GridCube> the logos are the old good ones
<knome> uggh, report those to the tracker and post me the links and i can try to get them some publicity
<knome> hmm, maybe you have the iso from march 15
<GridCube> ok
<GridCube> :)
<knome> when is the last time you zsynced?
<GridCube> 3 hours ago
<GridCube> and retried just now
<knome> right...
<knome> well, i don't know
<knome> the new logo is in, at least in my wife's laptop with precise and upgraded to most recent version
 * GridCube doesnt know, he just installed the iso :(
<knome> at least it was in in plymouth...
<GridCube> nope
<GridCube> i was happy to see the old logo at least one last time
<knome> weird. poke mr_pouit, the joke's on him now :P
<knome> (i've provided all the files and made him confirm it's uploaded)
<knome> GridCube, now listen carefully :)=
<knome> 20:26  sbeattie: 'isoinfo -x /.disk/info -J -i /path/to/iso' should give the build information encoded in the iso.
<GridCube> :D
<GridCube> 20120201.1
<GridCube> thats the iso on the zsynck source i used
<astraljava> Not outdated at all.
<astraljava> 1.5+ months.
<GridCube> D:
<knome> BFF
<GridCube> well i just used the usual zsync file i always used
<knome> and i DON'T mean "best friends forever" with that acronym
<GridCube> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/
<GridCube> from here
<knome> huho?
<knome> clearly says 19-Mar-2012 there though.
<astraljava> Yeah, something's off.
<GridCube> :/
<GridCube> i dunno
<GridCube> bug  #959581
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959581 in Ubuntu "Installing xubuntu 12.04 betas on a virtualbox fails to load guest additions like it used to" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/959581
<knome> GridCube, and that's added to the iso tracker too?
<GridCube> not yet
<knome> anyway, that's the one i think is low priority
<GridCube> i don't know if to report the test
<knome> not being able to connect to internet is worse
<knome> GridCube, mm-hmm.
<GridCube> because it obviously its not the one that im suppose to be doing
<GridCube> or reporting for that matter
<knome> it would be great if you could download the iso for today whatsoever
<knome> because of the non-pae kernel
<knome> we need tests for that
<GridCube>  yes that was part of the things that got me thinking about what version i was installing because it said that i was installing a pae kernel, and then the logos where the old ones and so on
<knome> :)
<GridCube> and the md5 checksums do not coincide :/
<knome> weird...
<GridCube> well i dont know if to report
<GridCube> so i wont
<GridCube> i have to go now :/
<knome> ok, np
<knome> have fun
<astraljava> I can give it a spin on vbox, after I finish watching the King's Speech.
<knome> astraljava, thanks. remember to choose i386 :)
<astraljava> Alrighty.
<astraljava> Oh, live or alternate?
<ochosi> wow. pretty hefty email from charlie
<pleia2> :(
<astraljava> :-/ Not even sure what to think about that.
<scott-work> indeed ochosi 
<astraljava> knome: live or alternate?
<knome> astraljava, i don't think it matters
<astraljava> knome: Actually, if I am not too tired, I'll give them both a go.
<astraljava> I plan on watching the Ducks game at 4 am., so I'll have plenty of time if it happens. :)
<knome> :)
<astraljava> netcfg on i386 alternate fails to read Wpasupplicant pid file.
<knome> astraljava, is ther a bug for that?
<knome> +e
<astraljava> Neither NAT nor bridged works.
<astraljava> I'll check, hold on.
<astraljava> Hmm... should have been fixed already for oneiric.
<astraljava> Strange.
<knome> huh.
<knome> are you using an old image too ?:P
<knome> aaand i think i'm off for now. see you all later
<knome> astraljava, btw, if it still exists, file/find a bug and paste the bug # here, i will find out what's going on
<astraljava> Yeah, I'll spend a little more time still before giving up on it. :)
<astraljava> knome: It seems to be a vbox issue, it doesn't seem to find my wireless adapter at all.
<astraljava> knome: I had never heard of testdrive, just accidentally stumbled upon it right now. Looks like a seriously handy tool, if it works. :)
<knome> humm, what's that?
<astraljava> testdrive, gives you a nice and clean interface without any hassles of looking for links etc. You can configure it to use any distro/flavor, any archs, sync and then launch the virt software of your choice.
<knome> right
<astraljava> knome: Yeah, it was a vbox issue, qemu goes past that stage.
<knome> right
<knome> maybe something related to the guest additions
<astraljava> I don't know, never really liked vbox. I used vmware back in the day, now too lazy to install it as it's not in the archives. :)
<ochosi> astraljava: are you old enough to use the phrase "back in the day"? :)
<mr_pouit> I installed daily-live 20120319.1 in vbox and there was the new logo, and the non-pae kernel (I didn't enable pae in vbox and it worked)
<astraljava> 34, but I mean like 7 years ago, when there were no virt packages in the archives.
<ochosi> :)
<knome> mr_pouit, shiny.
<ochosi> mr_pouit: sorry, still haven't gotten round to check the sound-stuff, a few new fixes for greybird got in the way :/
<ochosi> what the heck
<ochosi> gedit is using a widget i've never seen before :/
<knome> heh, congrats
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03192012-110710pm.php
<knome> well that looks...
<knome> grey?
<knome> that's not nice
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> it obviously uses symbolic icons
<ochosi> but they're coloured wrongly
<knome> heh
<ochosi> the buttons look okay-ish, but the icons are wrong
<knome> :D
<ochosi> so something is wrong in the gtk3 code :(
<ochosi> bah
<ochosi> stupid ambiance
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03192012-110903pm.php
<ochosi> everything is working there :'(
<knome> D:
<ochosi> anyhoo, i've got to watch another episode, chew a few more cookies and drink another glass of red wine before i can face this
<knome> :D
<knome> hf
<ochosi> the scale is half-done though
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03192012-111016pm.php
<ochosi> plus the stupid separator is removed from the comboboxes
<knome> heh
<ochosi> anyhoo, bbl
<knome> feels like you've had a great time!
<knome> err, maybe "sounds"
<knome> :P
<ochosi> yeah, i'll _never_ port bluebird to gtk3
<ochosi> (this is kinda a promise)
<knome> :<
<knome> even when gtk3 is more stable?
<ochosi> with this much shit going down every release, i don't have time for anything else
<ochosi> at least as long as i'm on my own
<knome> well, shit is going down, what ever you do ;)
<ochosi> i do realize that
<knome> unless you poop head-down
 * knome hides
<ochosi> still, it sucks
<knome> i guess it sucks more that way :D
<ochosi> i feel like cleaning up throughout the freeze-zone
<ochosi> before that there's two months of quiet where nothing much happens
<ochosi> or if it does, better not react, because it'll change anyway after the first freeze
<knome> true
<ochosi> so it's always a cat-and-mouse game of trying to fix everything within the last few weeks
<knome> the freeze time is kind of... bleh
<ochosi> sry, i'm really kinda angry right now
<astraljava> knome: Does that look like expected? http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/xubuntu_20120319.png
<knome> really hard to get excited about the new release since you can't do *anything* without asking in the last two months :)
<astraljava> Otherwise the system seemed to work fine.
<ochosi> astraljava: yup, apart from the panel-layout
<ochosi> oh
<knome> yup.
<knome> that's probably native
<ochosi> that's your panel underneath the QUEMU :)
<knome> the bottom panel :)
<ochosi> btw, that reminds me
<knome> hmmh, that reminds me
<knome> ;)
<knome> ...too
<ochosi> we wanted to replace the time-plugin by the datetime-plugin
<ochosi> has that happened? mr_pouit ^
<knome> what if we added a few px padding to the logo?
<ochosi> again?
<knome> yeah.
<knome> i KNOW it's UIFe again but
<astraljava> So it's supposed to be that gray?
<knome> i just realized
<ochosi> astraljava: what is? the terminal?
<knome> https://launchpad.net/debian-cd needs updating too
<knome> astraljava, yes, that's our new terminal color scheme
<ochosi> knome: yes, and the logos on the launchpad groups
<knome> astraljava, handmade by knome
<astraljava> ochosi: Yeah. No difference between the areea where you write, and menu bar.
<knome> ochosi, yes, but that's not under UIFe ;)
<ochosi> yah, pretty cool, aint it?
<ochosi> knome: i know, just mentioning it
<astraljava> knome: I had faith in you. What happened? *blink* *blink*
<ochosi> wow! robert_ancell is online
<astraljava> heheh
<ochosi> now i don't know what to ask him...
<ochosi> :(
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> bbiab
<astraljava> That always happens.
<knome> astraljava, is the terminal color scheme really so bad?
<knome> it actually works better if you hide the menubar by default.
 * knome wonders if astraljava chooses passwords that rhyme with his username
<astraljava> knome: Nah, I'll get used to it, or I'll change it. I've spent quite a lot of time just recently trying to find good gray shade combos for weechat, so now seeing everything in just one is a little bit of a shock. :)
<astraljava> Sadly, no.
<astraljava> Yeah, I should really hide it, I never use it anyway.
<nonau> I don't really care for the new terminal color scheme myself.  I've changed it to black in each testing
<knome> nonau, mm-hmm, defaults are just defaults :)
<pleia2> nonau! where you able to get those bug reports submitted? ochosi was looking for them earlier
<nonau> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-meta/+bug/959040 is one, don't know what happened to the other.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959040 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "artifact on corner of desktop in Xubuntu Pangolin beta" [Undecided,New]
<mr_pouit> closed, because it's not possible to have more than one systray
<mr_pouit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/959046
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 959046 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Cannot add notification applet to XFCE panel - Xubuntu Pangolin beta" [Undecided,Invalid]
<nonau> Odd, I didn't notice that behavior in 11.10.  Thank you for the input.
<mr_pouit> the black pixel bug is known, although not many people are able to reproduce (and the upstream developer thinks it's a graphic driver issue: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8119)
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.xfce.org: HTTP Error 404: Not Found (http://bugzilla.xfce.org/xml.cgi?id=8119)
<mr_pouit> knome: do you remember the mail about small logos for unity-greeter?
<knome> mr_pouit, yes
<mr_pouit> do you have something for me? :P
<knome> no.
<knome> or, do you mean, you still don't have *anything* ?
<mr_pouit> use the sentence you prefer (:
<knome> no, really?
<knome> didn't i export you stuff
<knome> are you still waiting for those?
<mr_pouit> maybe, I don't remember, too many highlights from you :P
<knome> hah
<knome> let me find them
<mr_pouit> but I don't think I included them already
<knome> here they are: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_greeter/
<ochosi> mr_pouit: hmm, the datetime-plugin?
<mr_pouit> ochosi: I didn't do anything, as it needs the mighty UIFe first =]
<mr_pouit> knome: thanks, I'll try them tomorrow and then commit to xubuntu-artwork (I'm not sure 'XF' is really awesome for Xfce, but at least custom_xubuntu_badge.png must be added ;-)
<knome> mr_pouit, heh, yeah. just an "X" didn't work very well either... :)
<ochosi> what the hell, the "save" button in gedit is misplaced.
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03192012-115250pm.php
<ochosi> this day is just getting better and better
<knome> :DD
<knome> that's just awkward
<ochosi> it
<ochosi> it's the _only_ menuitem that is misplaced
<knome> heh
<ochosi> great, of course it works in ambiance
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03192012-115506pm.php
<knome> eh
<knome> ...
<ochosi> are we satisfied with these scales? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03202012-120008am.php
<knome> that's not bad, but maybe the non-active part could be just slightly darker
<ochosi> like this? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03202012-120202am.php
<knome> spot on
<ochosi> ok, i'll try to get these changes cleaned up and push them
<knome> thanks, it's much appreciated
<knome> pleia2, are you an op on any channel?
<pleia2> knome: not any xubuntu channel
<pleia2> lots of other ones though
<knome> i think you could be an op in #xubuntu too
<knome> i'm not trying to reduce my own workload, that would just make sense, timezones etc
<pleia2> probably
<knome> we need to resolve the access list issues, though
<knome> at least for -devel
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i'm surprisinly tired
<knome> +g too
<pleia2> I don't think I'll have the testing docs updated for beta2 :(
<pleia2> I had a bunch of questions I didn't anticipate when doing the rewrite, I think I have omst answers now but I need to test them futher and I'm running out of time
<knome> mmh
<pleia2> leaving on an 8 day trip in 22 hours
<knome> ugh
<pleia2> I come back before the beta2, but only just
<knome> completely offline?
<pleia2> I'll have hotel wifi
<knome> heh, good
<knome> we could try to get the rest of it solved together, since i have normal access to everything
<pleia2> mostly access will be via email, since I can easily check that on my phone all day
<knome> mmh, that too :)
<pleia2> ok, I'll see how far I get tonight and we'll talk tomorrow
<knome> where are you going btw?
<pleia2> Philadelphia, looking at wedding venues :)
<knome> for yourself? ;)
<pleia2> yep!
<knome> congrats!
<pleia2> thanks
<ochosi> cool! congrats pleia2 
<pleia2> shooting for April 2013, so we need to book now
<pleia2> thanks ochosi 
<knome> mm-hmm
 * knome was wedded on wife's birthday, which also happens to be new years eve
<pleia2> :)
<knome> (not last year though D:)
<ochosi> lol
<ochosi> easy to remember dates :)
<knome> yeah
<knome> the other option was my birthday
<knome> which is Jan 3 ...
<ochosi> lol
<knome> my mom is Dec 16, sister Jan 28
<knome> do you know how much we are celebrating at the change of the year??
<ochosi> your folk seem to like to do it in the summer ;)
<pleia2> lol
<ochosi> (or late spring)
<knome> ochosi, no, march really, when dad got the bookkeeping in order
<ochosi> huhu
<knome> well, i don't know for sure - but that's my version ;)
<ochosi> sounds plausible and fun at the same time
<knome> well, i don't want to think of the "fun" of it too much
<ochosi> huhu
<ochosi> sry
<knome> np :P
<knome> off for today, see you all tomorrow again
<nonau> Is there a more comprehensive set of tests than the "long test" on the wiki?
<pleia2> nonau: not currently, but if you have ideas for more they would be quite welcome
<pleia2> nonau: if you have more suggestions for tests, please sign up for the xubuntu-devel mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel) and share them there, from there more people can review them and we can work them into the /Long version
<nonau> pleia2: Alright, thank you for the information.
<pleia2> (and let me know if you're shy about posting to -devel, I was :) you can also email them to me: lyz@ubuntu.com and I'll pass them along)
<ochosi> nonau: yup, bugreports and testing is always appreciated!
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-20
<nonau> After years of testing, and a few bug reports during the last couple of cycles, I think that Xubuntu Pangolin is shaping up to be the release which converts me over to a full time user.  After this latest daily build finishes downloading I'll run it through the full suite of tests.
<ochosi> nonau: if you're already at it, would you mind testing the gtk-theme from git?
<ochosi> it's really easy, you can download a tarball from github and extract it to ~/.themes
<ochosi> then it should override the theme in /usr/share/themes
<nonau> It'll be about 20 minutes before the iso finishes downloading (slow connection).  After that I'll gladly test it on my netbook.
<ochosi> ok cool!
<ochosi> thanks
<nonau> np
<nonau> I'll have to install the beta and update instead.  Daily didn't boot on my hardware.
<ochosi> oh, that sucks
<nonau> And it seems the beta wont install either.  It crashes for me whether I choose install Xubuntu or go to the live cd and choose to install.
<nonau> I get "ubi-partman failed with exit code 141"
<ochosi> :/
<diarmuid> Have you tried booting it off a USB?
<ochosi> hi diarmuid :)
<diarmuid> hello :D
<ochosi> you were quick to embrace my suggestion
<diarmuid> Mailing list??
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> you can simply /wii $nickname to see the real-name of people here (in case they expose them)
<diarmuid> Thats handy :)
<ochosi> depending on what client you use (i use irssi), there are also other, more GUI-oriented ways
<nonau> With Xchat a simple right click on the name will tell you.
<diarmuid> Yeah I'm using Xchat just noticed that I could do that.
<nonau> And I figured my way around the error... remove windows. ^^
<ochosi> hehe
<diarmuid> windows don't like to be compatible with anything
<ochosi> just for reference, what's your timezones?
<ochosi> (mine is GMT+1)
<diarmuid> GMT i think lol
<diarmuid> its 1:08
<diarmuid> 1:08am
<ochosi> k, so you're in GMT
<ochosi> that's close enough
<ochosi> i guess we'll find time to meet :)
<diarmuid> Yeah not to far your from central Europe then I take it?
<ochosi> austria
<diarmuid> I'm from Ireland
<ochosi> good stuff :)
<ochosi> diarmuid: if you need guidance or help with anything feel free to ping me
<diarmuid> ochosi: no problem thanks
<bogner17> What program do you use to do all your Xubuntu artwork?
<ochosi> gimp and inkscape mostly
<bogner17> Do you have your own website?
<bogner17> This is Diarmuid by the way 
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> yeah, i figured, same IP ;)
<ochosi> well, there's the shimmerproject.org
<ochosi> that's kinda the website for the themes i've been working on
<ochosi> but lately i mostly had time to take care of greybird
<bogner17> bognerdesigns.co.cc just a little portfolio I was putting together for web design
<ochosi> looks nice
<nonau> Oh, if you guys ever happen to want a few wallpapers I have some nature shots that work great for that.  Apologies for butting in.
<bogner17> Very standard have a lot to learn about designing website used photoshop mostly but I want to be able to design them using inkscape and gimp.
<bogner17> No problem nonau would make some great stock images also :)
<pleia2> knome: I have a beta2 draft in wordpress, so I figure we just add to that as the week goes on
<ochosi> nonau: sounds good, feel free to show them off
<nonau> recommend a place to upload them?
<bogner17> photobucket.com isn't bad fits the purpose well.
<ochosi> or flickr
<ochosi> depending on what you wanna do with them (apart from showing them here)
<ochosi> k, i'm going to sleep
<ochosi> night everyone!
<bogner17> night
<bogner17> I'm heading to bed also
<ochosi> see you around
<pleia2> nonau: what are you using to make your ISOs, burning to CD? USB stick?
<nonau> burn to cd
<pleia2> and same error for both?
<nonau> no, on the current daily the CD wasn't recognized and was skipped.  Not sure if it was the ISO or the CD though.
<pleia2> I'm wondering if there is a problem with the burn, I've had it happen if I burn too fast, all kinds of weird errors
<pleia2> did you run md5sum against the iso file?
<pleia2> most people never bother to unless there is a problem, but it's important for testing
<nonau> No, I haven't.  9 times in 10 I don't because I generally don't have issues with them.
<pleia2> yeah :)
<pleia2> so you can run it against the .iso file, and then again against your cdrom after burning
<pleia2> md5sum file.iso
<pleia2> md5sum /dev/cdrom
<pleia2> or whatever the device is
<pleia2> err, sorry
<pleia2> second command is wrong, let me get the right one
<pleia2> (I have been using usb sticks for too long!)
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM#Manual_method
<pleia2> doh, that link fails
<pleia2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM#Check_the_CD
<pleia2> and you want "Manual method"
<nonau> 2c52467b183646617b987edd10d95178 on the iso
<pleia2> 2c52467b183646617b987edd10d95178 *precise-desktop-i386.iso
<pleia2> via http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20120319.1/MD5SUMS
<pleia2> good :)
<nonau> It was a failed burn.   Feel like an idiot now.
<pleia2> don't feel bad, we've all been there :)
<pleia2> my best one was when I burned 10 CDs for a conference before realizing they were all bad (burning too fast)
<pleia2> took me like an hour
<nonau> Oh wow, that sucks.
<nonau> http://www.flickr.com/photos/76375303@N08/ <-- Starting to build up the collection of photos, all free to use as wallpapers.  Just got to sift through the bad shots to find some good ones
<nonau> After a full update the panel artifacts seem to be gone on my Eee PC
<pleia2> well that's good
<pleia2> further proves it's a finicky thing to pin down though
<nonau> Another bug, likely pulse related.  The mute function key will mute the audio just fine but using the key combo again won't unmute as on Windows.
<pleia2> ochosi: nonau replicated it ^^^
<pleia2> I was trying to test that, but my laptop doesn't have a mute key :)
<pleia2> nonau: ochosi may have some things for you to try to fix that tomorrow when he's awake
<nonau> Alright, can do.  I still need to test the latest git version of the theme and report on that as well.
<nonau> ochosi:  Theme from master is working as expected so far.  Ping me if you want anything in particular tested.
<nonau> Another hotkey which locks the screen doesn't seem to do anything either.  I know it triggers the screensaver in Gnome.
<nonau> *function key
<nonau> ochosi: Theme version from git causes white text in the gksu prompt instead of the black in previous versions.
<ochosi> pleia2: hmm, if you see nonau again (i think i won't be online tonight), please tell him i'm sorry i forgot to tell him he needs to test the gtk3.3 branch from github :/
<knome> hmm
<knome> somebody online?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> but not for long
<knome> hey
<knome> can you quickly confirm that http://xubuntu.org/ doesn't have the new looks?
<knome> (it should, i got an email about that)
<ochosi> you mean new logo?
<knome> yes, and the new bg and all
<ochosi> still old
<knome> mmh
<knome> i'll poke IS
<ochosi> is the blog post for the new logo/branding ready?
<ochosi> i think i'll do some kind of artwork post as well
<ochosi> including the new lightdm-theme and new widget-theming in greybird (scale and spinbuttons etc.)
<ochosi> (hope i'll have time for that soon)
<astraljava> o/
<knome> ochosi, i suppose it is :)
<astraljava> I fell asleep abruptly last night, so didn't test the live-cd yet, but then again Lionel reported having tested it, so I don't imagine it being a huge problem, no?
<knome> nope
<mr_pouit> fyi, I haven't included the new logo in lightdm yet (nor the unity-greeter xubuntu badge)
<knome> mmkay
<ochosi> mr_pouit: feel free to ping me whenever you've tested greybird-git in your vm
<mr_pouit> I've already two vms started to test 10.04 and 11.10 upgrades, plus some tests running for my work, so my system is dying right now :>
<mr_pouit> (I'll test greybird this afternoon)
<ochosi> whoa :)
<ochosi> sure, i probably won't be online much, have an important presentation later today
<ochosi> but i'll read the backlog as always
<knome> mr_pouit, you've got a cc of a mail asking for more time for #955396
<ochosi> k, see y'all later
<mr_pouit> knome: yep, I just read it
<knome> see you ochosi 
<bogner17> Good morning everyone
<knome> hey bogner17 
<bogner17> What is everyone up to?
 * knome is updating the new logo for debian-cd
<knome> and trying to get extended time for our UIFe (ui freeze exception)
<knome> bogner17, did you read the xubuntu team description in LP?
<bogner17> Okay well I will let you guys know a little more about my skill set they and I suppose you could give me some advice on what area's I could help with Xubuntu?
<knome> sure :)
<bogner17> Well I'm 19 years old and I live in Ireland not to sure if thats important :D. I have quite a lot of experience using Adobe Photoshop packages I have been using it since I was 12 years old. I am developing these skills into GIMP and Inkscape now. I also have web design skills I have created and administrated several sites over the years. I go to a Technical College and I study ICT (software development) the only programming w
<knome> (you got cut at: the only programming w ...)
<bogner17> I am currently learning python and XHTML5 and I want to maybe start doing some programming using it to help develop Xubuntu. So not only will I be able to code but I will also be able to make beautiful GUI's for my programs.
<bogner17> we do is visual basic ewwh :(.
<knome> heh, right
<bogner17> thats after the programming knome
<astraljava> You do Visual Basic after the programming. Yeah, that actually makes perfect sense. :)
<knome> bogner17, nvm astraljava, he's a bit weird.;)
<astraljava> I've said it before, but I acknowledge I must repeat myself often around here. I may be weird, but at least I'm not weird.
<astraljava> *blink*
<astraljava> *blink* *blink*
<bogner17> Well thats what our college teaches astraljava next year at University I will be learning java, C++ and C#. 
<astraljava> ...I'll get me coat.
<astraljava> bogner17: Oh okay, I missed the context, sorry.
<knome> ahahh
<bogner17> No problem no offence taken astraljava
<knome> :)=
<knome> bogner17, i suppose mr_pouit and micahg would be really happy with help on the actual development
<knome> that includes packaging and bugfixes and... all kinds of stuff
<astraljava> bogner17: A hint from a veteran in the field; there's already a number so huge of java developers, I would concentrate on C[++|#], it's quite easy to jump into java if you nail those first.
<astraljava> C++ just refuses to die, it seems.
<astraljava> ...which is nice, for me.
<knome> :P
<bogner17> What about coding python but implementing C++ into codes where needed?
<astraljava> bogner17: That's actually what I've been doing for the past 3 years now.
<bogner17> astraljava: so would it not be better to focus on python first and foremost? 
<astraljava> Using python when applicable (test automation framework, for instance), and writing apps with Qt/C++.
<astraljava> bogner17: Not really, but it's essential to keep it on the side.
<bogner17> So basically you can make like a prototype of the app in python before coding in C++?
<astraljava> Python is very easy to get into, although that doesn't mean that's all there is to it.
<astraljava> bogner17: No, I would not do that. Stick to a language, but make good decisions on which part of the system you implement in which language.
<astraljava> bogner17: Of course, if you absolutely must have some proof-of-concept in 5 minutes, then do that in the language you know best.
<astraljava> But stop going further than absolutely necessary before making a thorough analysis on which language would suit the job best.
<bogner17> Well I'm going to get stuck into some C++ tutorials today get some books printed off do something productive with my day. Do any off you have any good resources?
<astraljava> Of course, this applies to professional jobs only. If you want to learn a new language while implementing a new system, and you have time for that, then by all means, that's the best way to get that knowledge.
<astraljava> But there are still some things all languages/frameworks can't do.
<astraljava> This is especially true on real-time stuff.
<astraljava> ..and other similar stuff.
<bogner17> Yeah I kind of understand I suppose this will all make better sense when I learn some more.
<astraljava> But I digress now, and will leave the arena to more on-topic conversation. :)
<bogner17> :)
<knome> bogner17, if you can, the best way to get hold of things is to hang around this chanenl
<knome> *channel
<knome> communication will mostly happen here (and the mailing list)
<bogner17> Yeah I am faster than mailing lists
<astraljava> knome: ...and the forums? *evil grin*
 * knome (gently) kicks astraljava in the knee
<astraljava> Bah! Just as I was about to go cycling.
<bogner17> What would be the best IDE for writing lines of C++
<bogner17> I'll be back in 5mins need to go onto my own computer this computer I'm currently on is Windows....
<bogner17_> Back
<bogner17_> So what would be the recommended way for me to begin my studies?
<astraljava> bogner17_: I've rather liked Qt Creator, but there are so many of them, and it's such a matter of personal preference. Some prefer regular text editors with syntax highlighting, some want more sophisticated features. Try Anjuta and Eclipse CDT.
<astraljava> bogner17_: re: C++, if you have a linked account, I suggest you joining the C++ Developers Group, it's got plenty of interesting conversation on best practices and stuff. Obviously there are actual mailing lists and newsgroups on the topic, too.
<bogner17_> How do I go about joining them?
<knome> astraljava, s/linked/linkedin/ ?
<knome> mr_pouit, you can go ahead with the lightdm logo and greeter badges. :)
<astraljava> knome: Thanks.
<knome> np
<knome> :)
<astraljava> bogner17_: comp.lang.c++ and comp.lang.c++.moderated are the standards for newsgroups, for other great resources, have a look at http://www.robertnz.net/cpp_site.html
 * knome is off for a while
<knome> bogner17_, great to hear you are interested in the xubuntu development :)
<knome> bogner17_, i'm sure you will both learn and gain a lot, if you have the persistence to get in open source development, whatever the project :)
<knome> see you later
<bogner17_> See you later thanks knome :)
<mr_pouit> ochosi: nice, the fix for the comboboxes and the spinbuttons is workign
<mr_pouit> https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/+pots/lightdm-gtk-greeter (almost all green \o/)
<mr_pouit> (exported oneiric lightdm translations from lp and reimported them for precise lightdm-gtk-greeter :)
<knome> heh, nice
<knome> btw, our branch to upload new logo to debian-cd got accepted
<knome> what? there is no LATIN translation for the greeter? schuss
<astraljava> Probably no taushiro, neither.
<pleia2> knome: I made a few small changes on the Xubuntu/Testing page, and sent a draft of the testing blog post over to Charlie for review, once he's done I'll send it to you, then we can toss it up to xubuntu.org
<knome> pleia2, okay, did you notice we had a beta 2 announcement already?
<knome> pleia2, it's bundled with the new branding post
<pleia2> knome: oh, no :)
<pleia2> you can just move my items then
<knome> ;)
<knome> i did already
<pleia2> thanks
<knome> i also updated the marketing page
<pleia2> ok
<knome> (all new logos and microbuttons!!)
<knome> anyway, i'm off again for now
<knome> pleia2, thanks for handling the testing blog article on your trip :)
<pleia2> sure :)
<pleia2> it's all you guys who get to have fun with new testers I'm telling to join here ;)
<astraljava> Heheh. :)
<knome> astraljava, http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/Tutkimus+Koirat+hermostuvat+hevimusiikista/a1305558207724
<astraljava> Heheh. Didn't see that from my dogs, but I suppose it's possible.
<nonau> ochosi:  The ruler in Abiword goes from grey to black with theme from git as well.
<bogner17> Hello folks
<ochosi> nonau: the ruler in abiword is broken, it's not greybird's fault
<ochosi> nonau: unfortunately it's known, it's an unstable version of abiword...
<micahg> which is again unfortunate
<ochosi> mr_pouit: what about the gtk-scale?
<ochosi> micahg: +1
<micahg> there's a new snapshot in Debian, I can backport it if people want to test it
<ochosi> of abiword?
<micahg> yeah
<knome> derr
<knome> the logo in xubuntu.org is for some really weird reason not aligned.
<knome> i am *sure* i checked that
<ochosi> micahg: yeah, could be worth a try
<knome> pleia2, you here?
<micahg> ochosi: ok, once a test build completes, I'll backport to my PPA
<ochosi> micahg: cool!
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: hey there, how's it goin? still busy as ... ?
<leo-unglaub> as hell....sadly yes
<leo-unglaub> huge project deadline moves...
<leo-unglaub> and i am the guy who has to fix is
<leo-unglaub> ...
<ochosi> wow ok
<pleia2> knome: not for long
<pleia2> ooh pretty
<knome> right
<knome> pleia2, do you think it's okay to wait with the branding article until b2?
<knome> pleia2, also, what do you want to do with the pingbacks?
<pleia2> yeah I think that's fine
<pleia2> we should disable pingbacks
<knome> that's not possible...
<knome> at least not trivially
<knome> pingbacks are in a way interesting
<knome> they could lead us to "xubuntu in the press" -stuff
<knome> it would be great to gather them to one place though
<knome> that would be possible with a template in the theme
<knome> (find any pingbacks on any post, and order by date, and for example, show 20 newest)
<pleia2> ah
<pleia2> hmm
<knome> bah, we could even make that a shortcode so we could use that on the "press" frontpage
<knome> that's more/as trivial than disabling pingbacks
<knome> *than/as :)
<pleia2> :)
<knome> otoh, looks like some of the pingbacks aren't so interesting
<knome> so that would need some work when approving/deleting
<knome> but i don't think that's a problem, since there is really no rush in approving those, just do it when you log in :)
<leo-unglaub> are you talking about http://xubuntu.org/ ?
<knome> leo-unglaub, y
<knome> i will look into it now, probably quickly write a mockup to start building on
 * pleia2 train
<knome> pleia2, see you later, and keep on having fun
<micahg> ochosi: abiword snapshot uploaded to ppa:micahg/ppa, should build in ~1hr
<micahg> if this fixes enough issues, I'll take care of shepherding it into precise
<knome> :)
<knome> mr_pouit, ?
<nonau> ochosi:  Understood about the Abiword issue.  As for the password prompt having white text, what reason is there for that?
<ochosi> micahg: sweet, i'll check it out (tomorrow)
<ochosi> nonau: hm, i didn't read that before, what password prompt?
<Pjotr> Hello, I wish to report a problem with alacarte menu editor, which is part of Xubuntu 12.04
<Pjotr> It's untranslatable, just like lightdm-gtk-greeter was (until mr_pouit fixed it at Launchpad)
<micahg> Pjotr: things in universe aren't translatable in launchpad
<micahg> so, that's the case with most of the xubuntu packages
<Pjotr> OK.... where can I translate it then? Not in the Xfce project, of which I'm a translator as well...
<knome> Pjotr, upstream
<Pjotr> googled it, but can't find it....
<nonau> ochosi: The gksu? prompt before launching synaptic.
<micahg> Pjotr: I think alacarte is part of GNOME
<ochosi> nonau: aha. were you using the gtk3.3 branch?
<knome> micahg, it is
<ochosi> nonau: (i think i forgot to tell you that..)
<nonau> ochosi: I simply downloaded the tarball of the master git.  I don't recall anything about you mentioning gtk 3.3.
<ochosi> nonau: oh, sorry then. master doesn't work well in precise. there were quite a few not-backward compatible changes in gtk3.3, so i created a separate branch for that in github
<Pjotr> micahg: OK, I'll see what I can do then.... Thanks for the info.
<nonau> ochosi: Where do I download this gtk 3.3 branch then?
<ochosi> nonau: i think this should work: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/tarball/gtk3.3
<nonau> ochosi: Thank you.  gksu and the grey rulers are back thanks to that. :)
<nonau> Now if I could remember how to make Synaptic use newly downloaded themes...
<ochosi> sudo rm -r /usr/share/themes/Greybird && sudo mv Greybird /usr/share/themes ;)
<nonau> thank you
<ochosi> np
<astraljava> knome: I'm a little behind on bugs, are there some critical or high importance ones that needed some love but aren't getting any?
<knome> i don't know of any concerning xubuntu, but you might want to check with micahg or mr_pouit 
<micahg> no idea, I have enough of my own bugs ATM :)
<astraljava> Heheh. :)
<knome> there's probably nothing too critical
<astraljava> Ok, I'll just look around in mail and LP, then.
<knome> micahg, ?
<micahg> knome: what?
<knome> micahg, do you know how to revert the images-on-dark-bg feature on FF?
<micahg> feature?
<micahg> AIUI, it was a bug that was fixed
<knome> well, they used to be shown on white bg
<knome> i'm on oneiric
<knome> am i missing something?
<micahg> oh, right :)
<knome> i understood it's a *feature* that's why said so... :)
 * micahg thought you were referring to the thunderbird thing
<knome> no, since when would FF started meaning TB?
<knome> :)
<micahg> since I appear to be half asleep :0
<knome> heh
<micahg> nope, doesn't appear to be a way at present
<knome> fsst :<
<knome> that's a really bad change, really..
<knome> i am sure there is a bugreport for this though
<knome> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=376997
<ubottu> Mozilla bug 376997 in Layout "Render standalone images against a dark gray background" [Enhancement,Verified: fixed]
<micahg> knome: BTW, you're not the first person to complain about it, that was the bug that was fixed
<knome> aha...
<micahg> you can file a feature request to make it controllable and block that bug if you like
<knome> "block" ?:)
<micahg> there's a blocks field when you file a bug, it just means that if the blocked bug is backed out, then this should be too
<knome> i both understand and don't :)
<mr_pouit> *g*, it takes so much time to test bild artwork package because of optipng :<
<knome> heh
<mr_pouit> ochosi: gtk-scale? where do I test that?
<knome> mr_pouit, are you uploading the greeter badge and the ligthdm logo? (:
<mr_pouit> in a few minutes (when my test build ends)
<ochosi> mr_pouit: e.g. in pavucontrol
<ochosi> i don't know many other places
<ochosi> especially for vertical scales, i don't know of any app that uses it (so it's untested)
<mr_pouit> oh, ok, I'll try that tomorrow
<ochosi> ty
<mr_pouit> I guess I'll upload a new revision of shimmer-themes tomorrow evening
<ochosi> have you by any chance tested the power-notifications?
<mr_pouit> I didn't touch elementary-xfce recently :]
<knome> mr_pouit, mmh, we got two days more time, so until thu
<knome> debian-cd is fixed \o/
<knome> ochosi, we should look into making our slideshow less tall for P+1...
<knome> ochosi, it's not fitting notebooks currently
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> or do a new on
<ochosi> e
<knome> ochosi, we *could* fix that for P already, but that would most probably mean smaller text size
<knome> ochosi, or smaller screenshots...
<ochosi> smaller font would be ok imo
<ochosi> it's still far larger than most text on the screen, and people can read those things too
<knome> how do you feel about the screenshots being cut from the bottom then?
<knome> we need like 95px more space...
<ochosi> wow, that's quite a bit
<ochosi> how come?
<knome> the height is 550 now
<mr_pouit> astraljava: no critical crash that I'm aware of for xfce (but I didn't check recently reported private bugs, lp doesn't notify us about them...)
<knome> plus, window borders, plus the progress bar
<ochosi> mr_pouit: well yeah, but you still could've pulled the latest rev from git to your vm :}
<ochosi> (just sayin ;) )
<mr_pouit> you didn't ask, so I tried to be lazy ;>
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> hah
<ochosi> what are the chances of a physical install of a daily 64bit image to be successful?
<knome> 90%+ ?
<ochosi> hm, sounds good enough
<mr_pouit> unless ubiquity suddendly broke, 99% ? :P
<ochosi> then i'll delete my testing-vm now and try that physical install
<ochosi> far better for testing anyway
<ochosi> swoosh, and it's gone
<ochosi> hmm, downloading takes far longer...
<knome> ha
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i'll go through the sound tests now, how long will you be available tonight?
<ochosi> (i might need some guidance here or there)
<mr_pouit> 5~10 minutes (waiting for xubuntu-artwork 12.04.5 to show up on precise-changes@)
<mr_pouit> after that I really need to sleep
<ochosi> hmm, ok
<ochosi> so just very quickly:
<ochosi> first i'll test the mute-thing. but i'm sure unmute won't work
<knome> ochosi, we'd need to redo the desktop-slide image
<knome> ochosi, that doesn't really fit in...
<mr_pouit> ochosi: with the (non-existing) default settings?
<ochosi> then i try the proposed change from the bugreport (set xfce4-mixer active-card to pulseaudio)
<mr_pouit> I guess it won't work, indeed
<mr_pouit> yes
<ochosi> then i check whether xfce4-mixer still works and whether it pops up notifications
<ochosi> is that it, or shall i uninstall pulseaudio totally as well and see whether that solves anything? :)
<mr_pouit> open xfce4-mixer > change the volume using media keys > check that xfce4-mixer reflects the change too
<ochosi> mhm
<mr_pouit> open xfce4-mixer > change the volume and check that a notification appears
<mr_pouit> I guess if they both work as expected, that's perfect
<ochosi> and if not?
<mr_pouit> (I don't have pulseaudio on debian, and it solves everything :P)
<ochosi> i was afraid that would solve everything..
<mr_pouit> ochosi: if not, then gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio still sucks, and I'm not sure what's the right decision for precise :<
<ochosi> it was an odd (and imo hasty and uninformed) decision of charlie to install that by default...
<ochosi> mkay, live-stick is almost ready
<mr_pouit> we don't install willingly pulseaudio by default
<ochosi> in fact i could even test this in the live-environment
<ochosi> we don't?
<ochosi> i thought that was a conscious decision
<ochosi> so what triggers that then?
<mr_pouit> there's no "*pulse*" string in the seeds
<mr_pouit> ubuntu uses pulseaudio by default, so something is pulling it for us too
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i see
<knome> but pulseaudio isn't too bad nowadays, is it?
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Ok, thanks!
<ochosi> booting into live-system now, brb
<mr_pouit> knome: xubuntu-artwork 12.04.5 uploaded (lightdm + badge with the new logo)
<knome> \o/
<knome> that should be it for the logos
<ochosi> back
<mr_pouit> knome: pulse isn't too bad I think, but it doesn't interact well with xfce4-{mixer,volumed} right now
<mr_pouit> ochosi: fyi, at least indicator-sound-gtk2 depends on pulseaudio
<ochosi> mr_pouit: if thats the only thing we could skip it imo
<ochosi> but anyway...
<ochosi> starting the sound-tests now
<ochosi> (oh how i hate us kb-layout)
<knome> heh
<ochosi> ok, i need to install, otherwise i can't easily restart the session
 * knome read "restart the simon"
<ochosi> maybe/ubiquity isn't very pretty
<knome> we might be okay with 470, if that's good for netbooks
 * knome is getting somebody to test that
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-21
<mr_pouit> sorry, I'm too tired to be useful, so i'll read the backlog
<mr_pouit> good night!
<ochosi> sure, good night mr_pouit !
<knome> night mr_pouit :)
<ochosi> hmm, resizing partitions. always fun.
<ochosi> imo we should hide ff's menubar by default
<ochosi> it's so much prettier without it
<knome> bleh, that's another UIFe
<ochosi> for p+1 then
<ochosi> xfce4-notifyd should be disabled in maybe-ubiquity
<ochosi> it shows stuff like wireless-networks available, but you can't interact with it
<astraljava> I can't believe T-bird is still suffering from the same problem it has had for the past decade, at least.
<ochosi> ?
<astraljava> Messages with umlauts in subject aren't displayed correctly in the thread pane, if no content-type is specified in the headers.
<ochosi> pff
<ochosi> knome: ubiquity looks ok to me
<ochosi> i mean size-wise
<knome> ochosi, on a netbook?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> hm, maybe not
<ochosi> btw, the wallpaper is also old on that shot
<knome> apparently 470 just isn't enough...
<knome> ochosi, want to come up with an updated shot there?
<knome> :|
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> if i don't have anything better to do...
<knome> if we decide to try to fit netbooks
<ochosi> i dunno, i don't own a netbook ;)
<ochosi> tbh the slideshow isn't huge as it is
<knome> i know
<astraljava> Maybe it's time for a netbook edition. :)
<knome> i'm investigating this mostly for US
<knome> but seeing what our chances are, too
<ochosi> astraljava: huhu
<ochosi> restarting, hopefully brb
<knome> i'm wondering what our chances are keeping up the accessibility with nobody with expertise on that
<knome> accessibility as in accessibility for the disabled
<knome> general accessibility should be okay, at least
<ochosi> back
<astraljava> knome: I have no idea. I only know of one dev who concentrates on that stuff, and he's way busy.
<knome> yeah.
<knome> re: a11y: there's also this thing now, should we even think about the app sets, or just keep on installing the few a11y tools by default
<knome> and tell people who want ubuntu+plain xfce to use minimal as before
<knome> a11y set made it worthwhile, but the xfce-only alone... well, i don't know
<ochosi> knome: cool, the power-icon stuff worked
<ochosi> including notifications
<knome> great!
<ochosi> yah, the power-icon never looked that crisp ;)
<ochosi> k, gotta quickly reboot to test that audio-stuff
<nonau> audio stuff?  Anything about the mute button?
<ochosi> nonau: that's what i'm testing
<nonau> ochosi:  If possible, can I give it a test too?
<knome> ochosi, 520 height -> http://imagebin.org/204442 -> \o/
<leo-unglaub> wah
<ochosi> nonau: sure, try this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed/+bug/883485/comments/3
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883485 in xfce4-volumed "Pulse Audio don't get unmuted when XF86AudioMute is used" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<ochosi> nonau: if that works for you giving you unmute again, start testing whether xfce4-mixer still works
<ochosi> (and whether it displays notifications)
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: what's up? :)
<ochosi> knome: yeah, looks good. but really the header is eating a lot of space considering it's such a small window now
<ochosi> maybe screenshots should somehow overlap it...
<leo-unglaub> i am just loosing it here
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: with your project?
<leo-unglaub> i don't get why people don't support there projects
<leo-unglaub> just needet "giver"
<leo-unglaub> to copy some files
<knome> ochosi, i made the header smaller on xubuntu slideshow
<leo-unglaub> broken in current version
<knome> ochosi, on the US slideshow, there was no need
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: that sucks. haven't tried giver in ages though
<leo-unglaub> i mean, i have nearly 40 projects on github and even i don't need one of them i try to still supprt them
<leo-unglaub> and my company project...dude...not in a month ..
<ochosi> meh, that doesn't sound good
<ochosi> brb
<nonau> ochosi: I manually changed that setting in the Settings Editor (to the value in the comment).  The keys work, I have notifications, and all seems to work. :)
<ochosi> nonau: are you on precise?
<nonau> ochosi:  Yes.  I copied the string from "sound-card" to "active-card".
<ochosi> mr_pouit: there are some serious issues with xfconf in precise. first off: values can be changed, but the changes aren't saved. doesn't matter whether via cli or gui. also: after launching xfce-session xubuntu-session is kinda borked. many of the session-settings are gone (xfwm4-theme, font-rendering etc.)
<ochosi> nonau: lucky for you, didn't work for me. the values don't get saved
<leo-unglaub> is the 12.04 bug with the not disapering notify-bouble reported?
<ochosi> also: here the string in sound-card and active-card are the same (HDAIntelAlsamixer)
<ochosi> nonau: ^
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: i think that was even reported for oneiric, but never fixed afaik
<nonau> ochosi: I'll see if it still saves for me after restart.  For me, HDAIntelAlsamixer was active card and the other was PlaybackBultinAudio...
<nonau> ochosi: Setting saved on restart.  The problem is fixed for myself.
<ochosi> nonau: could you please open xfce4-mixer
<ochosi> then check whether volume-changes are still reflected there when pressing the multimedia-buttons
<ochosi> if that works, also check whether moving the slider in xfce4-mixer makes the notification-bubble appear
<nonau> ochosi: Done, it updated the volume slider in sync with the volume keys.
<ochosi> ("moving the slider", as in: clicking and dragging it with the mouse)
<nonau> notification does appear for both the buttons and dragging the slider
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> wondering why you have different settings for sound-card though
<ochosi> would you mind pasting the value that worked for you?
<nonau> PlaybackBuiltinAudioAnalogStereoPulseAudioMixer for both /active-card and /sound-card
<ochosi> in fact: if you could add what you did to make everything work here, that'd be great: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xfce4-volumed/+bug/883485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883485 in xfce4-volumed "Pulse Audio don't get unmuted when XF86AudioMute is used" [Undecided,Won't fix]
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: http://img641.imageshack.us/i/auswahl007.jpg/ <- thats not even close, but the result in the new glade version *g*
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: well, if you can get the fill-setting right then this could still be a good step forward
<leo-unglaub> no, because the playtime ist gone *g*
<ochosi> hihi, true
<ochosi> i overlooked that
<leo-unglaub> i hate glade...thats one of the reasions my company switch to mono...the monodevelop gui designer ist beautiful
<ochosi> nonau: ok, can reproduce that now. problem with setting sound-card to builtin blah is that you can't control input anymore
<ochosi> nonau: (in xfce4-mixer)
<knome> ochosi, would you like to test the new slideshow?
<knome> ochosi, bzr branch lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-netbook 
<ochosi> knome: not sure, i'm already pretty tired, and i already tested such a lot today..
<knome> ochosi, this one is easy though, just a pull and run a script :)
<knome> tbh, it is pretty much done now, though i'd like you to see it before i start begging for an UIFe ;)
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: is this tool bar still needet? http://img841.imageshack.us/i/auswahl007.jpg/
<knome> that looks useful :)
<leo-unglaub> but is this in the current version enabled?
 * knome has no idea, but it looks useful ;)
<ochosi> this toolbar is only shown when playing a dvd
<ochosi> so removing that would disable dvd-navigation
<ochosi> (it's pretty hacky if you ask me, but anyway...)
<knome> it sucks to navigate dvd's is 'menu' is more than one click away though... :)
<leo-unglaub> ochosi: are you sure it's used?
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: yes
<leo-unglaub> because i don't see the events in zthe source code
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: it's really conditionally shown when a dvd is inserted
<ochosi> knome: branching that takes ages :(
<ochosi> knome: what scripts do i have to run now?
<knome> ochosi, don't you think i now? i've branched that at least 4 times today :D
<knome> ochosi, test-slideshow.sh, select xubuntu
<ochosi> s/now/know
<ochosi> ;)
<knome> ochosi, that's it.
<knome> heh, right ;)
 * knome is pretty much ready to bed
<ochosi> so what do you wanna see?
<knome> just want ACK/AARGH from you
<ochosi> :)
<knome> ochosi, i want *you* to see the new, 520px tall slideshow :)
<ochosi> looks pretty similar to as always
<knome> yeah, but it's more condensed
<knome> check all the slides
<knome> shouldn't be surprises but...
<knome> if that works for you, i'll file an UIFe tomorrow...
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03212012-020416am.php
<knome> (or just ask around if i could upload that without UIFe, since nothing really changed)
<knome> yup.
<ochosi> please enjoy my borked fonts after starting xfce-session
<knome> hahah
<ochosi> that _really_ should be fixed
<knome> that's how the shot is cut
<knome> the fonts?
<ochosi> or maybe my eyes are tired
<knome> or them breaking after running xfce?
<knome> no, they suck
<ochosi> more things broke
<knome> astraljava!!
<knome> astraljava, you asked for critical bugs?
<ochosi> xfwm4-compositing setting was gone
<ochosi> xfwm4-theme was gone
<ochosi> font-rendering settings
<ochosi> font-settings (sans instead of droid sans)
<knome> ochosi, if you aren't too tired, please file a bug
<ochosi> i am
<ochosi> i pinged lionel, hopefully he'll reply tomorrow
<knome> okay, then let's gather that tomorrow from the logs
<nonau> Anything else I should test, pulseaudio related or otherwise?
<ochosi> also: the shade button is part of xfwm4 now
<ochosi> nonau: could you please log out, log into xfce4-session and then back into xubuntu session and see whether anything changed?
<knome> evil.
<nonau> ochosi:  Can do.
<ochosi> (for me that broke/changed a lot of things, a quick confirmation would be good)
<knome> ...and a bug report
<ochosi> knome: well, we wanna know, don't we?
<knome> :P
<ochosi> huhu, you're evil!
<knome> well if other people have more energy...
<knome> or better timezone ;)
<ochosi> knome: look at this: should i make the recorded channels red and the unselected captures like the currently selected one?
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03212012-020852am.php
<knome> i have NO idea what you are talking about
<ochosi> better now?
<knome> hmm. recorded channel *names* ?
<ochosi> no, the microphone icon
<ochosi> (sorry, was a bit unspecific at first)
<knome> ochosi, instead of what?
<knome> ochosi, looking like the button is pressed down?
<ochosi> knome: make "Capture 1" and "2" look like "Capture", make "Capture" red instead
<knome> hmmph.
<ochosi> knome: maybe that's clearer visually to see which chan is recorded from
<astraljava> knome: Yes I did.
<knome> i'd prefer a red record-icon
<knome> astraljava, well, you have one now. :)
<nonau> ochosi: Logged into xfe-session and back into xubuntu.  I now have two additional workspaces, the bottom panel is no longer transparent, and no other noticeable changes.
<ochosi> nonau: different window borders?
<knome> ochosi, but the current unpressed/pressed states are fine, imo
<nonau> ochosi:  Roll up button was added.
<ochosi> knome: pressed == recording. unpressed is just nothing
<knome> ochosi, exactly.
<ochosi> nonau: but the theme was kept? or are the borders blue now?
<knome> ochosi, can you change the pressed button icon to red record-icon ?
<ochosi> knome: so you'd keep it as is or make pressed==red?
<knome> ochosi, as is, but add the icon change when pressed
<ochosi> knome: yeah, i'd simply re-color it
<knome> i'd use the red dot
<nonau> ochosi:  Theme was kept.
<ochosi> nonau: ok, what about font-settings? (settings-manager>appearance>fonts)
<astraljava> knome: Err... where?
<knome> astraljava, log in to xfce session, then back to xubuntu session. some settings are lost.
<knome> astraljava, some attention to the discussion on the channel, please ;)
<ochosi> knome: nah, either use a mic or a red dot. i don't like icon-changes on click, that feels whacky
<astraljava> knome: Ok, let me try.
<knome> ochosi, could it be light-gray dot on non-pressed state?
<astraljava> knome: Hah.
<nonau> ochosi:  It changed to Sans, 10 point, no anti-aliasing.
<knome> astraljava, especially the discussion between ochosi and nonau  :)=
<ochosi> knome: i'll think about it tomorrow. i generally like the mic-icon...
<ochosi> nonau: ok, same here :(
<knome> ochosi, mmh. in this case, i don't know if the icon change would be too wacky.
<knome> ochosi, it's intended to be a big difference so you can notice that.
<ochosi> knome: i'll think about it when i'm not as tired as i am now
<knome> yeah, i might be not thiking the clearest either
<ochosi> :)
<knome> +n
<knome> ...
<ochosi> ok, i really really gotta go to sleep now
<knome> not typing either
<ochosi> i can't get anything done anymore anyway now
<ochosi> see y'all tomorrow or soonish
<knome> same here
<nonau> Heading out for now as well.
<knome> see you
<ochosi> thanks for testing, nonau
<knome> and night/day everybody! :)
<knome> yup, thanks nonau! :)
<knome> ->
<nonau> No problem.
<astraljava> grr... no menu item for qemu-kvm.
<ochosi> night everyone!
<astraljava> knome: ochosi: Yeah, I see how it changes. I will look into this tomorrow, I may have to sleep too, it seems. :)
<ScottL> the new xubuntu logo looks very, very nice
<nonau> Indeed it does.
<nonau> One thing I've noticed is that networking notifications don't seem to follow the settings in Settings Manager > Notifications.
<knome> ScottL, thanks for the praise. it's not unanimous... :)
<astraljava> No, it's not... *smirk*
<knome> astraljava, so, what do *you* like of the logo?
<knome> in a way it's a big thing to change, otoh, a user doesn't see it too often anyway
<knome> madnick, you on?
<astraljava> Yeah well, I like what has been attempted to achieve with the change. It's a big change, like you said, so I'm not sure I've gotten accustomed to it just yet. :)
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> i really think it hits the nails head on small sizes
<astraljava> Probably will, I've only seen it bigger so far.
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_logo/oldexports/logo_comparison_appmenu.png
<astraljava> Yeah, there it looks much cleaner.
<knome> :|
<knome> oh, the logo
<knome> are you near your qemu installation?
<astraljava> Yes I am.
<knome> could you check what i proposed? branch the slideshow, and try running the test-slideshow-script
<knome> and see if it has the scrollbars too
<astraljava> I can, after "breakfast". :)
<knome> heh
<astraljava> gah, LP is acting up.
<astraljava> ...or then it's the virt networking.
<astraljava> Come to think of it, LP has been much more stable than, say, a few years back.
<knome> sure
<astraljava> knome: Wouldn't it have been k3wl if the mouse had an eye in the logo? :D Probably too small a detail, but just thought of it right now.
<knome> yeah, it's too small
<knome> we already lost that feature for the 10.04 logo, it was in before
<astraljava> knome: Yeah, no scrollbars there.
<knome> :||
<knome> damn, that's nasty
<astraljava> It is. I'll testdrive the studio amd64 image again, so I'll get you a screen shot of it.
<knome> mmh
<knome> can you remember seeing that with vbox?
<astraljava> No, I haven't tested on vbox, but I can if you want.
<knome> the slideshow is in webkit, so if qemu messes that up... then it's just qemu and we can pretty much forget that
<knome> if you could, would be awesome
<astraljava> Sure, I have it installed already.
<knome> meh, i mean at installation time.. :)
<knome> if qemu doesn't show the scrollbars in test-slideshow, why should vbox?
<knome> that's not even the place we'd care about them, because it's just test
<astraljava> I mean, I have vbox installed, so no big deal. :)
<astraljava> Yeah, beats me.
<knome> hehe, right
<knome> :)=
<knome> yup, it's weird, and scary too...
<astraljava> I kinda dislike the whole virt, still, but it's much quicker.
<knome> but let's hope it is qemu messing things up
<astraljava> Ehh... this is seriously weird. In vbox, it mentions the machine being powered on at the initial checks, which it didn't in qemu.
<knome> hmm :)
<astraljava> knome: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/us_vbox_slideshow.png vs. http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/us_qemu_slideshow.png, it looks like qemu has some serious issues. Look at the bottom of that screen shot.
<astraljava> ...or it could be an architectural thing, I am not an expert on virt anyhoo.
<knome> astraljava, yeah, huh :)
<knome> phew
<knome> in that case i think we can merge the branc
<knome> h
<astraljava> Yeah, go right ahead.
<Kk2> hello guys, good morning :D
<astraljava> o/
<astraljava> knome: 3-cushion billiard on Eurosport2
<knome> astraljava, too bad the eurosport channels still don't work here
<knome> i'm off. see you later in the evening
<bogner17> Hello everyone
<ochosi> hey
<leo-unglaub> is the xubuntu screensaver a part of the xfce project?
<leo-unglaub> because i thing i found a security bug
<ochosi> leo-unglaub: that's xscreensaver, i think one of the (supposedly) safest lockers around
<ochosi> (not part of xfce)
<leo-unglaub> hmmm
<leo-unglaub> i was able to pick up an incoming skype call while the screen was locked
<ochosi> wow
<ochosi> that's disturbing
<knome> ochosi, ping
<ochosi> knome: pong
<knome> so, regarding to the discussion earlier while trying to triage the audio mute bug
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> well, there are two ways of dealing with the current unmute-bug
<ochosi> 1) fix it via setting an xfconf-value (in the property /active-card) via xubuntu-default-settings
<ochosi> 2) fix it by patching xfce4-volumed directly to prefer pulseaudio
<knome> is 1) problem-free?
<ochosi> well, the thing is that people have reported differing values for pulseaudio
<ochosi> you can see that in the bugreport
<ochosi> that's the main issue
<knome> aaand the bug # is?
<ochosi> variant 2) seems more flexible
<knome> :)
<ochosi> #883485
<ochosi> meh
<ochosi> bug #883485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 883485 in xfce4-volumed "Pulse Audio don't get unmuted when XF86AudioMute is used" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883485
<knome> variant 2) needs pavucontrol instead of xfce4-mixer
<knome> right?
<ochosi> not necessarily
<ochosi> but it would make sense
<ochosi> as it's more a shift towards using pulseaudio more
<ochosi> and that can't be handled by xfce4-mixer
<ochosi> xfce4-mixer uses gstreamer, and gstreamer has terrible pulseaudio bindings
<knome> i've personally used pavucontrol for a while already...
<ochosi> therefore it doesnt support pulseaudio
<ochosi> so people can't take advantage of it
<knome> what about panel applets?
<bogner17> I really wish I knew and understood everything you guys are talking about :(
<ochosi> well, we don't use the xfce4-mixer in the panel anyway
<knome> bogner17, feel free to ask :)
<ochosi> for at least two releases we've been using indicator-sound
<knome> ochosi, but can we get something for pavucontrol in?
<ochosi> knome: into indicator-sound?
<knome> ochosi, hmm, that's the applet with music player play controls?
<ochosi> yup
<knome> huho
<bogner17> knome how do you do that like red private message thinging?
<knome> wasn't there a bug with that? scrolling not working
<knome> bogner17, just type somebody's nick, and they most probably will get a highlight
<ochosi> knome: not sure what you mean with "scrolling"
<knome> ochosi, scroll mouse whell on top of applet
<bogner17> knome did you get highlighted?
<knome> shouldn't that control audio volume?
<knome> bogner17, yup :)
<ochosi> knome: oh, that has been fixed
<bogner17> knome awesome :)
<ochosi> (in oneiric already)
<knome> ah
<knome> nice
<ochosi> so no backdraws there
<knome> so indicator-sound works with pavucontrol too?
<ochosi> yup
<knome> ok
<ochosi> the "sound settings" button has to receive a patch
<knome> aham?
<ochosi> so that pavucontrol opens instead of xfce4-mixer
<knome> right
<ochosi> but it's trivial
<knome> but that's trivial?
<knome> good.
<ochosi> mr_pouit has already provided a patch
<knome> i wonder if this should go under FFe
<ochosi> i've also tested his patch against volumed to prefer pulseaudio
<ochosi> works well
<knome> i'm all for dropping xfce4-mixer
<ochosi> yeah, me too
<ochosi> having two mixers is odd and confusing
<knome> yes
<ochosi> and xfce4-mixer is getting deprecated (unless we decide to drop pulseaudio)
<knome> well, you can have even four mixers if you want, but.. :)
<ochosi> another cool thing would be to get pavucontrol into the settings-manager
<knome> looking at ubuntu going to PA, i don't think we're going to swim upstream (pun intended) with no PA
<ochosi> that would only mean modifying its .desktop file a bit
<knome> hmm
<ochosi> yeah, i think we don't have too much choice than to embrace PA
<knome> can we get a patch for that, and some publicity for it too
<ochosi> after all, it's supposed to be the sound-server of the future ;)
<knome> and then testing too...
<knome> well, we don't have to embrace it, using it is enough ;]
<knome> but tbh, it's worked fine for me
<knome> hmm, so
<knome> is there a bug for any of this?
<knome> if you could file one with a quick list of the needed changes, and maybe a quick rationale, that would be good
<ochosi> sry, brb
<knome> heh, np :)
<knome> new slideshow is now uploaded along with appropriate changelog
<knome> ScottL, ^ ubuntu studio too
<ochosi> ok, back
<knome> so, if we'd have a bug, that would be good
<ochosi> not sure against what i should report the bug "replace xfce4-mixer by pavucontrol"
<knome> xubuntu-default-settings ?
<ochosi> hm, not sure, does that package carry our default apps?
<knome> well, ask mr_pouit which package defines our seed
<ochosi> yup, i'll wait for him
<knome> and what about fixing xfce4-volumed to use pavucontrol?
<ochosi> anyway, might be that i can't do that today, i won't be online anymore after ~1hr from now
<knome> err, pulseaudio
<knome> which package is that
<knome> if that is xubuntu-default-settings, i think you could file that as the bug itself, and just add that we also want to change the seed
<knome> and we can just mark the other package to be concerned later
<ochosi> that's xfce4-volumed
<ochosi> and for the indicator it's the package indicator-sound-gtk2
<knome> huho
<knome> :)
<knome> anyway, if you can sort this out with mr_pouit, i'm happy to go through the FFe stuff
<ochosi> yeah, i'll ask him who will file the bugreports
<ochosi> since the patches are ready (and tested), it shouldn't be a big deal
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> ho!
<knome> there's now "work items" -subheader at LP blueprints :)
<knome> madnick, can you follow-up on the plymouth text issue with me and mr_pouit as soon as possible - we need to have the stuff ready to be uploaded so we can file a UIFe bug
<knome> bbl
<madnick> At the moment I cannot do much about it, I uploaded my changes, but you wanted a diff, the problem is atm I only have access to Windows 7, and that won't change until I get back. I do not really know what to do :(
<ochosi> madnick: when do you get back?
<madnick> 25th
<ochosi> hmm
<ochosi> well, you can always ask someone else to do a diff for you
<ochosi> better than waiting with hands folded
<madnick> Yes
<madnick> Well, the code is on my server
<madnick> Im not sure who to ask to do the diff :P
<madnick> knome?
<ochosi> best to ask someone with a few technical skills, e.g. either mr_pouit or micahg 
<ochosi> or even someone outside of xubuntu-dev, if you know anyone
<madnick> tbh, the solution was to span the text out on 1 single line
<madnick> Thus I think about 3-4 lines of code was changed
<ochosi> it might be good to discuss that with whoever will package it
<ochosi> (my guess would be mr_pouit, but i might be wrong)
<ochosi> k, i'm off for today
<knome> madnick, can you point me to the code then, an i'll do the diff myself
<madnick> knome: okay
<madnick> http://79.99.1.99/~madnick/xubuntu-logo.script
<knome> thanls
<knome> s/l/k/
<madnick> Frankly, I am very sorry for my very disappointing degree of involvement this cycle, but I really had no idea about how my situation would turn out.
<knome> it's okay
<knome> in the future though i think we all would benefit from public development branches
<Kk2> in future i will help you guys :D hahah
<madnick> :)
<knome> Kk2, hey
<knome> really, any little bit of help is appreciated
<Kk2> i will man :D
<Kk2> anyting i could help
<knome> we will start planning the Q cycle relatively soon, so hang out and you will be able to be the assignee for things
<Kk2> no problem :D i will be always here in irc :P just let me know when
<knome> madnick, i've talked to astraljava, and he's willing to help with the release meetings, or even take the whole task. i'll talk to skaet about that too. maybe you can cooperate on things together? :)
<madnick> sure
<knome> thanks
<madnick> It would be great, because lately its been impossible to attend :P
<knome> yeah, i've noticed; no problem though, just want to make sure everything works :)
<astraljava> madnick: Ok, cool! Glad to be cooperating with ya. :)
<astraljava> madnick: Perhaps we can expand it to some coding later on. :) You've got cool projects in your portfolio.
<knome> ochosi, btw, there's the beta freeze tomorrow :D
<madnick> astraljava: :)
<knome> ochosi, mr_pouit: beta freeze is tomorrow 21 UTC. we have until that to get FFe's for the plymouth text stuff (i have the code ready) and the audio stuff.
<knome> madnick, ?
<knome> madnick, it's kind of urgent, if you can get my message... :)
<knome> come on....!
<madnick> knome: im here!
<madnick> :P
<knome> madnick, see email
<madnick> oh
<madnick> 1 seec
<knome> sure
<madnick> knome: if im answering the right email
<knome> well, i only sent you one in the last 5 mins :D
<madnick> The translations are not handled by
<knome> by what?
<madnick> the script, they get handled by the actual messages
<madnick> that is sent to plymouth
<knome> yeah
<knome> but
<knome> does this affect translations
<knome> does anybody need to retranslate anything?
<madnick> nope :)
<knome> okay, great
<knome> that's the thing i wanted to hear
<knome> i'll file an UIFe later today
<madnick> The thing I am worried about, is that I have not tested it on hardware, just vm
<knome> well, if we get it for beta2, we can test it
<madnick> Awesome
<knome> if it fails miserably, then revert
<madnick> because the strings i use for testing is not the actual ones
<knome> anyway, some time off focus
<knome> mm-hmm :)
<madnick> The script, if installed, will use the actual ones tho
<madnick> Just my testing environ
<madnick> doesnt
<knome> yup
<knome> no worries
<knome> i wanted to hurry because getting this in beta2 will allow us to test
<madnick> okay :)
<knome> now, really off focus for approx. 20mins
<madnick> cya :)
<knome> mr_pouit, !!! https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/precise
<knome> mr_pouit, i understood you need to do some magic to get it in ;)
<knome> mr_pouit, but UIFe is approved...
<knome> off for now.
 * knome is back
 * astraljava fights to contain the urge to respond in an inappropriate manner.
<knome> hah
<mr_pouit> knome: that's all? this 3 lines patch?
<knome> mr_pouit, yes.
<knome> madnick, ^
<mr_pouit> nice, thanks, I'll upload
<knome> mr_pouit, do you think getting to upload the audio bug related stuff before tomorrow 21 UTC would work?
<madnick> The only thing we changed was how the text is presented
<knome> again, i can handle the FFe's...
<mr_pouit> knome: I think I'll upload xfce4-volumed tonight (it's more of a bugfix than a new feature)
<knome> mr_pouit, okay, so what's left then?
<mr_pouit> knome: xubuntu-meta and indicator-sound may need a FFe though
<knome> mr_pouit, can you help ochosi getting the bugs filed?
<knome> he wasn't sure against which packages he should file them
<mr_pouit> these two are package names :P
<knome> i know.
<knome> mr_pouit, but if he needs any more help, will you try to be helpful? (:
<mr_pouit> no, as usual (=
<astraljava> Silly gnome.
<knome> ok, great =(:
<mr_pouit> huhu
 * knome tries to apply his current beard-look to the smileys
<astraljava> You have a beard again?
<knome> yeah.
<knome> judging by the amount of freeze exceptions, the xubuntu team has been active lately
<knome> or, just sucked a lot before.
<astraljava> It all depends on how you look at it. :)
<knome> yup
 * astraljava is really liking weechat now.
<knome> hmpf.
 * knome is too lazy to learn anything new
<knome> irssi works for me, so why try to fix it.
<astraljava> Highly customizable, I'm not saying irssi wasn't, but the 256-color support really closed the deal.
<knome> who needs 256 colors in IRC ?
 * astraljava points at self
<knome> i need only one.
<knome> i don't want no more.
<astraljava> Hmm? Black on black?
<knome> blah
<knome> black is not a color ;)
<astraljava> lollero
<knome> hahah
<knome> and if pink is the new black, pink isn't a color either.
<knome> and if orange is the new pink, orange isn't a color either.
<astraljava> What happened to brown? It had to have been _something_ back when ubuntu first came out.
<pleia2> pink++
<astraljava> pleia2: You have pink highlighted?
<knome> the only thing i currently miss from irssi is diff's when topic changes
<mr_pouit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/961218
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961218 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu and Xubuntu alternate images fail to find kernel modules" [Undecided,New]
<pleia2> astraljava: haha, no :)
<knome> i mean yeah, it's nice to know the new topic... but what changed??
<mr_pouit> can someone test and alternate and confirm?
<knome> mr_pouit, we're both using non-pae
<mr_pouit> *an alternate iso
<astraljava> knome: weechat shows you the old and the new when it changes. *pfffft*
<knome> astraljava, yeah, but i don't want to see the long story
<astraljava> mr_pouit: I'm on it.
<knome> astraljava, that would fill the whole screen on some channels
<astraljava> knome: ...and it costs you... how much again?
<knome> 0,01â¬ per character
<astraljava> Whoa, you better re-evaluate your internet plan.
<knome> hah.
<knome> it costs me valuable screen estate
<astraljava> How big is your terminal screen, 16x4?
<knome> i'd also like to have a command that would be able to clear any topics and/or names lists at the current window
<knome> a bit like /lastlog clear
<knome> or, quite much like that, just for /topic and /names
<knome> actually, s/quite much/exactly/
<mr_pouit> astraljava: thanks
<mr_pouit> knome: upload of xubuntu-artwork in progress
<knome> mr_pouit, awesome (:
<ochosi> mr_pouit: i'm about to file the bug (deprecate xfce4-mixer in favor of pavucontrol)
<astraljava> mr_pouit: Confirmed.
<mr_pouit> meh, another unforeseen consequence of the non-pae switch :{
<knome> damn.
<knome> cjwatson will surely fix it
 * astraljava wonders when ubuntu eco-system grows so big that we need a second cjwatson.
<knome> i'm sure the ecosystem in cjwatson's hair will take care of that.
<astraljava> Haha!
<ochosi> mr_pouit: bug #961744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961744 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Replace xfce4-mixer with pavucontrol" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961744
<ochosi> knome: i'm already quiet tired, if you think i missed something in the argument, please add it
 * knome wonders how 'quiet tired' differs from 'loud tired'
<ochosi> well there you go
<ochosi> mr_pouit: and bug #961745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961745 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Prefer pavucontrol in Xubuntu-session over xfce4-mixer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961745
<ochosi> i guess that's it for me for today
<knome> hmm
<knome> what about settings manager?
<ochosi> yeah, dunno, do we want that? was just an idea of mine
<knome> if xfce4-mixer is there, why not?
<knome> (is it?)
<knome> if not, then i don't know if we can justify that change for P
<mr_pouit> (if we want that, UIFe against xubuntu-default-settings, I guess that's where we'll ship our custom desktop file)
<mr_pouit> knome: it's not
<knome> i don't think that's necessary
<knome> thoughts?
<ochosi> well the settings are where i'd expect to find the mixer/sound-settings
<ochosi> not in multimedia
<ochosi> but maybe that's just me
<mr_pouit> ochosi: fyi, v0.7 tag uploaded
<ochosi> everything will change in this respect anyway with the settings-manager of xfce 4.10
<ochosi> mr_pouit: cool, ty!
<knome> mmh
<knome> will xfce 4.10 be in Q? :)
<ochosi> most likely
<ochosi> if the release-date of april 1st holds :}
<knome> the april fools release? ;)
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> or: the not-april-fools release
<knome> heh
<knome> i'd rather have that...
<mr_pouit> (let's not file too many exceptions though, so it's probably ok witht he mixer in multimedia)
<knome> yup
<knome> mr_pouit, want to add patches or so to the bugs?
<mr_pouit> we've already filed more exceptions recently than all previous cycles :}
<knome> i know... :<
<ochosi> it's not necessarily bad
<ochosi> it means at least _something_ is moving (even if late)
<knome> hehe
<ochosi> ok, just fyi i'll be offline tomorrow the whole day
<knome> ouch.
<ochosi> i have to teach @university all day
<knome> will you be back even at the evening?
<ochosi> not sure
<knome> okay
<ochosi> i think i'll be dead-tired after 6hrs of teaching (in a row)
<knome> in that case, have a nice day, and hopefully you feel bad about leaving us to handle the FFe
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> i know beta-freeze is tomorrow, but really there isn't anything we would wanna do this last-minute
<knome> j/k
<knome> yeah, sure
<ochosi> knome: nah, not really, i filed them, you said you'd take them from there ;)
<knome> i will
<knome> mr_pouit, i'm repeating myself: do you want to add anything to the bug reports?
<ochosi> sounds like "getting things knome" :)
<knome> lol
<ochosi> i think i'll recycle this pun from now on
<knome> awwh
<ochosi> btw, the stupid logo-discussion also prevails on g+
<knome> link?
<ochosi> (stupid, because there really are more important things one could discuss)
<ochosi> https://plus.google.com/u/0/112064450121097287690/posts
<knome> mmh, yeah
<knome> at least it's not completly brainless lart
<ochosi> yup
<knome> though i don't think the "i like the old logo, but the new colors" -comments add much to the discussion
<ochosi> but really, one month after the release people will have forgotten this
<knome> surely
<knome> and especially after they've seen it in context, as you said
<knome> that's really what matters
<knome> how it works in the real world
<ochosi> yup
<knome> and how come somebody can "prefer the full mouse"
<knome> lol
<knome> that's a half mouse too...
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> in fact it's almost a natural consequence
<ochosi> that the mouse got reduced even more
<knome> yup
<ochosi> as it was already cut the last time
<knome> yeah, and its eye was taken too
<ochosi> a pirate mouse!
<knome> and the nerds bag below the eye
<knome> ;)
<knome> i always thought the xfce mouse looks tired
<ochosi> btw, you could always enlighten the people ranting about the "not looking like a mouse anymore" with the knowledge that the mouse has also disappeared from the start-page of xfce.org ;)
<knome> heh
<knome> that's a good point
<ochosi> it has become pretty marginal
<knome> maybe we should add that to the blog article
<ochosi> sure, go ahead
<mr_pouit> debdiff attached to the indicator-sound bug report
<mr_pouit> ochosi: patch for xfce4-volumed uploaded
<ochosi> very nice
<knome> mr_pouit, want to add something to the other bug ?
<mr_pouit> looks ok to me, thanks
<mr_pouit> you can play with your FFe thing :P
<knome> hah
<knome> thanks
<knome> The picmark is still based on the Xfce mouse, but it's more simplified and designed to be easier to drop in various places. As we have heard comments about the picmark not looking a mouse any more or having too little mouse in it, we would like to make a note that even the Xfce website doesn't have the mouse anymore. Altogether, the mouse is becoming more marginal than it was before.
<knome> how does that sound?
<knome> i have the feeling it's a bit defensive, but that's not intentional
<ochosi> first off: don't generalize, the mouse is still on some parts of the xfce site
<ochosi> just not the front-page
<ochosi> and yes, it sounds pretty defensive
<ochosi> i wouldn't do that
<ochosi> also, what do you mean by "designed to be easier to drop in various places"?
<mr_pouit> try to sound more optimistic: "the new logo was adopted on a broad consensus and immediately got a lot of feedback from the community"
 * mr_pouit runs
<knome> that it works better on different contexts
<ochosi> hihi
<knome> well, there's the answer to that, rewritten.
<knome> The picmark is still based on the Xfce mouse, but it's more simplified and designed to work better on different contexts. As we have heard comments about the picmark not looking a mouse any more or having too little mouse in it, we would like to make a note that even the frontpage of the Xfce website doesn't feature the mouse anymore. Altogether, the mouse is becoming more marginal than it was before.
<ochosi> "in different contexts"
<knome> yes
<ochosi> "not looking a mouse" > "not resembling a mouse"
<knome> i think we're using too much letters to tell this
<ochosi> "too many"
<knome> AAAARGH
<ochosi> hehe
<knome> "While the picmark has lost some similarity with the original Xfce mouse, we'd like to note that the mouse is becoming more marginal. For example, it's not even featured on the frontpage of the Xfce website!"
<knome> that sounds defensive too, doesn't it?
<knome> "While the picmark has lost some similarity with the original Xfce mouse, there's a trend making the mouse is becoming more marginal. For example, it's not even featured on the frontpage of the Xfce website!"
<knome> err
<knome> that didn't make sense, ignore
<knome> "While the picmark has lost some similarity with the original Xfce mouse, there's a trend making the mouse more marginal. For example, it's not even featured on the frontpage of the Xfce website!"
<knome> that does.
<knome> except there's some language fail
<knome> what's the verb for trend?
<knome> ...trend of the mouse becoming more marginal altogether
<knome> ?
<knome> mr_pouit, 01:34  skaet: knome,  it means I'm postponing my dinner to go look at it.   :)
<knome> mr_pouit, i think something is working.
<ochosi> i would really argue that the further reduction of the mouse is a logical step from the last logo-change
<ochosi> and only mention the xfce-page in a sidenote
<knome> let me try to phrase that
<ochosi> who knows whether the folks @xfce-dev agree with the logo (or the "trend")
<knome> well, i don't think they can (dis)allow any trends ;)
<ochosi> yeah, but the trend might be a construction
<ochosi> or: not intended
<knome> mr_pouit, 01:39  cjwatson: knome: gotcha; seed fiddling required, I'll look tomorrow morning
<knome> "The picmark is still based on the Xfce mouse, but it's more simplified and designed to work better in different contexts. While the picmark has lost some similarity with the original Xfce mouse, reducing the complexity is a logical step from the last logo change."
<knome> would that go?
<GridCube> might i ask somethig?
<knome> that's MUCH better, and it's not really defensive, it's just justifying
<knome> GridCube, sure.
<GridCube> why is it a logical step?
<knome> err, rationalizing would be better word even
<knome> GridCube, we dropped some of the mouse on our last logo change
<knome> GridCube, including the eye and two whiskers
<knome> GridCube, isn't it a logical direction to reduce a bit more?
<knome> GridCube, rather than add features back?
<GridCube> ... well that would mean that the direction is a blue circle?
<knome> blaupunkt, yes
<knome> i've always liked that logo
<ochosi> :)
<knome> GridCube, essentially, yes, that's the direction. but not the goal :)
<GridCube> mmm. i can not agree to that
<knome> ochosi, you like the last version?
<knome> ochosi, i don't think we actually want to mention the xfce website. we link to it with the Xfce word anyway, people can find that our theirself.
<ochosi> "in different contexts" + "and sizes."
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> i also s/original Xfce mouse/Xfce mouse/
<knome> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaupunkt :)
<knome> i really like that logo
<knome> though i don't like the 'blau' tone ;)
<knome> maybe we should make the xubuntu text italic
<ochosi> i had a car-radio once that was by blaupunkt
<GridCube> ...
<ochosi> they have a good reputation around here
<knome> GridCube, what? :)
<knome> GridCube, i'm just kidding with italic
<knome> GridCube, oblique is much better, if it's available
<knome> GridCube, no really, i'm just kidding. let's make it bold.
<GridCube> XD
<GridCube> oh okay
<GridCube> XD
<knome> yeah, i'm definitely not going to change the text
<knome> normal is just good.
<ochosi> you mean to "buxuntu"?
<knome> hahah
<knome> NO, it's knomebuntu, didn't we agree this on the secret #xubuntu-conspiracies channel!??
<GridCube> oh, did you read the blogpost from the kubuntu people, they are considering, or so he says, about changing the kubuntu name
<knome> oops
<knome> :)
<knome> really?
<GridCube> he asks if it could be a good idea
<GridCube> http://blogs.kde.org/node/4547
<GridCube> the last paragraph
<knome> yeah, he isn't suggesting any names though
<GridCube> no 
<astraljava> ochosi: As in 'bugsuntu'?
<GridCube> he is just trhouwing the idea
<knome> astraljava, ouch... :)
<knome> GridCube, i'm pretty sure he is actually just joking:)
<GridCube> prolly
<astraljava> knome: Hey, I'm helping you fix them! *grin*
<knome> astraljava, hmm, i thought that was a suggestion for the new KDE flavor of ubuntu
 * knome hides
<astraljava> People jumping on the '4010' train?
<knome> maybe :)
<ochosi> yeah, good idea: xubuntu could keep its name but disconnect its version numbers from ubuntu to create confusion :)
<knome> mm-hmm
<knome> what about releasing Xubuntu 13 next?
<knome> codenamed 'You will ever regret you installed it on a Friday'
<astraljava> Xubuntu Th1rte3n.
<astraljava> And then the fall release could be "I know what you installed last summer!"
<knome> robert miles released an album named 'Th1rt3en' last year.
<ochosi> huhu
<micahg> wow, so it slipped another month, I'm so glad we went with 4.8
<knome> liplap, maan mainio laituri!
<astraljava> knome: So did Megadeth.
<knome> only astraljava is going to get that^
<knome> astraljava, Th1rt3en or Th1rte3n? 
<ochosi> micahg: yes, but even that is not for sure, mostly it depends on nick's progress with the power-manager and session
<astraljava> Hmm... the former, it seems.
<knome> weird coincidence
<astraljava> ...and no, I don't get it either.
<knome> hah
<knome> good luck then
<knome> trying to work me with two more releases... :)
<astraljava> I won't be working you.
<knome> err
<astraljava> I'll be working on bugsuntu.
<knome> looks like i'm a bit tired too
<ochosi> ok people, i've finished my worksheets for my lectures tomorrow, i'm off to bed
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-22
<knome> ochosi, good night, and thanks
<ochosi> np, good night to you (and everyone else) too
<mr_pouit> same here, good night
<knome> nighty mr_pouit!
<knome> i'm off for today too, good night/day everybody
<knome> kernel problems should be fixed again by cjwatson
<knome> madnick, ?
<knome> madnick, http://imagebin.org/204632
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_countdown/draft-1.png
<knome> what do you guys like of that?
<pleia2> no bird, +1
<pleia2> last one should probably be "it's here" or somesuch though
<knome> sure, i'm working on it
<knome> that's just a quick draft
<pleia2> :)
<knome> had to test if i can get the circular stuff done easily in batch
<pleia2> yeah, that looks good
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_countdown/draft-2.png
<pleia2> :D
<pleia2> mouse is good
<knome> good
<knome> i thought that would be fun
<knome> extra! http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_countdown/draft-2-wide.png
<knome> mr_pouit, what was the image that was broken due the kernel change again?
<knome> bbl
<astraljava> What, NO bird?! YOU'RE INSANE, THE WHOLE LOT!!1one
<madnick> knome: i was afraid of that (pic). The problem is, there is no way of telling how many messages will become present, so using 2 labels, may not be optimal either since you may miss important aspects of the message. Dynamically constructing labels also suffers from flaws, in the way that if multiple messages
<madnick> appears, then it would basically "build over" the logo in the worst case
<madnick> How about we change the font size?
<mr_pouit> I guess ubuntu-logo.script DRTR
<mr_pouit> *DTRT
<madnick> iirc they do not show any text
<mr_pouit> yes they do
<mr_pouit> (I've seen it already at fsck time)
<PeripheralVision> Hi!
<knome> madnick, i'm okay with making the font size smaller, though i don't think that will solve all of our problems.
<knome> madnick, is it too hard to show, say, five last messages?
<knome> madnick, (and use appropriate linebreaks)
<knome> madnick, we have less than four hours to do this, though
<mr_pouit> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/962225
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 962225 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "icon cache generation failure" [High,Confirmed]
<knome> mr_pouit, did you notice we got the freeze exceptions for the audio bugs?
<knome> bug 961744 and bug 961745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961744 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Replace xfce4-mixer with pavucontrol" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961745 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Prefer pavucontrol over xfce4-mixer in Xubuntu-session" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961745
<mr_pouit> I can only upload when i'm back home
<knome> mr_pouit, and when is that?
<mr_pouit> 20utc+1 very likely
<knome> err, actually, we have a bit less than *six* hours...
<knome> huho, so that coverts to 19UTC? :P
<knome> two hours to fix it. :)
<knome> should be enough...
<knome> madnick, are you available to work on the plymouth issue in the next hours?
<knome> i was thinking of going for a walk, then get back to work on these things
<knome> i also need to send some work-emails today, though
<madnick> knome: 
<madnick> Its not that its hard to make it that way, its that I do not have access to my dev environment until the 25th
<knome> huh
<madnick> I told you yesterday :\
<knome> i think i forgot.
<madnick> well i told ochosi :P
<knome> right... ;)
<knome> do you think you could make the change on-the-fly? i can test it, if you tell me how
<madnick> well, the font-alternative i would just need to change very little, doing the message things im not sure
<knome> astraljava, you around?
<madnick> would basically need to implement a queue in its most basic implementation
<knome> yes
<knome> that should be somewhat trivial
<madnick> indeed
<knome> so you might be able to pull it off today? :))
<madnick> Well, I suppose if you were running tests while i modify it could work
<madnick> just need an editor that can use linux newlines for the code
<knome> i can do the tests for sure, and i'm sure others can help too 
<knome> i will take a walk soonish
<knome> maybe 1 hour or a bit more from now i'm ready for the tests
<madnick> okay
<madnick> I have some questions for you about the implementation, like chronologically-wise
<knome> newest should be at bottom
<madnick> okay
<knome> i think 5 lines would be a good queue/history to show at a time, what do you think?
<madnick> yup
<knome> good
<knome> mr_pouit, ^
<madnick> knome: i made the changes, but i utilized 2 assumptions, which i need validation of, tell when you are back :)
<knome> i'm *still* here, leaving in a few mins :)
<madnick> okay
<madnick> do you want the code?
<madnick> like, do you have time
<madnick> :P
<knome> well, i'm at wife's laptop, so it won't be very useful
<madnick> okay
<knome> but please do upload it
<madnick> Could I pastebin it? Because otherwise I need to try to find some rsync/scp substitute for windows
<knome> sure
<madnick> http://ideone.com/tdVEx
<madnick> knome: ^
<knome> madnick, can you do an another paste for the instructions on how to test?
<madnick> hm
<knome> or do you want to go through that live?
<madnick> Well, I do not acctually remembers all the exact commands since I wrote a script long ago that does it for me, but I can google it
<madnick> And tell you
<madnick> Or paste the answer
<madnick> :P
<madnick> sudo update-alternatives --install /lib/plymouth/themes/default.plymouth default.plymouth /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/xubuntu-logo.plymouth 100 ; sudo update-alternatives --config default.plymouth
<madnick> then 
<madnick> sudo plymouthd ; sudo plymouth --show-splash ; sleep 5 ; sudo plymouth quit
<madnick> but
<madnick> the thing one wants to test
<madnick> is an actual boot
<madnick> so you just need the first part
<madnick> to install the theeme
<madnick> theme*
<knome> ok
<madnick> but since its already installed
<madnick> if its a testing machine
<madnick> just change the code
<knome> right
<knome> i'll install precise in vbox then :)
<madnick> for me booting it in vbox is so fast i cant even see it
<knome> hmm.
<madnick> you need to force fsck
<knome> what if i force fsck ? :P
<knome> yeah
<madnick> yup
<knome> if you remember how to do that, paste that too :P
<madnick> you like touch some file
<madnick> i dont remember which :P
<knome> i remember that too :P
<madnick> btw
<knome> mm?
<madnick> VBox doesnt always even show the plymouth for me
<madnick> it shows the text version
<madnick> very often
<knome> ok... i think i've seen the graphical plymouth though
<madnick> okay good
<knome> anyway, i'm off for the wal
<knome> walk
<knome> see you soonish!
<madnick> cya
<madnick> also, to serve as a reminder to me, ive been meaning to ask you about a website thing 
<micahg> blueman uploaded last night BTW
<knome> i'm back
<knome> madnick, re: website: go ahead
 * knome is updating the precise system to newest packages
<knome> pasi
<knome> errh
<knome> wrong window
<knome> madnick, the messages are still printed on one line
<knome> or do i need to run the sudo plymouthd ... line?
<knome> or is it just ok to reboot
<astraljava> knome: Were you answering a phone or something? :D
<knome> astraljava, i was typing a password for the precise test vbox
<knome> madnick, ... :P
 * knome is partly afk, cooking
<madnick> knome: sorry, its ok to reboot
<knome> madnick, yeah i tested it, and it's all on one line still
<madnick> knome: that is not possible
<madnick> have you put the script into /lib/plymouth/themes etc?
<madnick> overwritten the old one?
<knome> madnick, yes
<madnick> i could imagine it all going on 1 line if my multiplier is wrong, but it would be overlapping in that case, it would look like a mess of text
<madnick> I am sorry, but I cannot see any way for this to look identical to the previous :\
<knome> well, it is :<
<knome> can you recheck the paste?
<madnick> 1 sec
<madnick> This cannot be, could you take a screenshot?
<knome> i can
<knome> btw, it looks like it gets a new message
<knome> and it's appended to the same message
<knome> and the message is then realigned to center
<knome> does that help?
<madnick> Well, what it does is, it takes a new messages, puts that "first" (lowest) while moving the previous up
<madnick> It should, in event of a new message
<madnick> Move the previous messages up on the screen, unless its the 5th which then goes away
<knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-1.png
<madnick> and the new message sits at the bottom
<madnick> I see
<madnick> gimme 5 minutes
<knome> sure
<madnick> knome: http://ideone.com/sdRdC
<madnick> try that
<madnick> It might not work at all tho, Im not sure of parameters of a function and there is no real reference for plymouth afaik, but if it utilizes logic it should work :)
<knome> just a sec...
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-2.png
<knome> the same
 * knome checks that it is /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo.script that he needs to overwrite
<knome> /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/xubuntu-logo.script 
<knome> ^ of course
<knome> (that's what i've been overwriting)
<madnick> mm, forgot to assign the value back hehe
<madnick> acctually i did not
<knome> mmkay
<knome> i have time ;)
<knome> it'd be great it if was ready in approx. 30mins though, to be ready for mr_pouit 
<madnick> - Finally, we'll need to create a new init image with the new settings.
<madnick> $ sudo update-initramfs -u
<madnick> some say that
<knome> aha
<knome> let me try that
<madnick> but it is weird, because plymouth is interpretating the script
<madnick> So it shouldnt have some seperate disk cache
<madnick> but if it works then awesome :)
<knome> what isn't weird in this world?
 * knome gets philosophical
<madnick> :P
<knome> hahah, okay, now plymouth disappeared completely
<knome> should i try the old script again?
<madnick> that may be a code error, like syntax
<madnick> check the logs, if thats true then progress is made! :)
<knome> which log?
<madnick> good question
<knome> heh
<madnick> I know there is plymouth logs in /var/log
<madnick> bu
<madnick> t
<madnick> I dont know if the syntax log is there
<madnick> atleast when i try my scripts i made a seperate one, but it makes sense to have a centralized one covering everything related tho
<madnick> so look there
<knome>  at least no syntax log errors with grep -i 'plymouth
<knome> '
<knome> should i try the first paste?
<knome> i mean, this seems to change things now at least
<madnick> well, it had a bug, but if it starts working again when trying the first one, we know the second one is wrong
<knome> ok, i'll try
<knome> now plymouth works again (hurrah!), and: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-3.png
<madnick> yes, that looks like a more reasonable error
<madnick> now all i need to do
<madnick> Is find the syntax error
<knome> hehe
<madnick> in the new one, that caused this error
<madnick> :(
<madnick> http://ideone.com/2Mloa
<madnick> that should do it :)
<knome> let's see
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-4.png
<knome> better!
<madnick> hm, not sure why the giant space
<knome> empty messages?
<madnick> perhaps an empty message, but that is not very good
<madnick> well
<madnick> let me adjust it
<knome> hehe
<knome> sure
<knome> this is looking good already
<madnick> http://ideone.com/Veby5
<madnick> might be worse, might be perfect :)
<knome> let's try that
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-5.png
<knome> it's better
<knome> but still empty space
<madnick> hm
<knome> as mr_pouit, "keys:" is probably some special message ubuntu is using
<knome> can you regexp those away?
<madnick> yup
<knome> thanks
<knome> :)
<madnick> http://ideone.com/zRHHn
<madnick> that should fix both issues
<knome> testing
<knome> o-ou
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-6.png
<madnick> :-|
<madnick> how is that even possible lol
<knome> don't ask me ;)
<astraljava> MAGIC TECHNOLOGY!
<madnick> http://ideone.com/khSo1
<madnick> try that
 * knome tries
<knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-7.png
<knome> madnick, btw, the white throbber doesn't go to the end of the throbber "bg". it lacks about 10px from the right edge
<madnick> ok
<knome> but let's fix that for Q
<knome> let's fix the text issue now :)
<madnick> i found one of the "errors" but the blank thing is odd...
<madnick> because i check for it being empty
<knome> maybe it's not empty message, maybe it has spaces?
<madnick> true
<knome> ochosi, the "install additional plugins" -message in FF is black, and the close -icon is simply black on black... :)
<knome> madnick, you still alive? :)
<madnick> http://ideone.com/QxW3E
<madnick> i base those changes on a commit to plymouth source in 2010
<madnick> thus i dont know for sure that its still current
<knome> testing
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-8.png
<knome> didn't seem to change anything
<knome> well, bit more padding
<madnick> okay, big gun time :)
<madnick> i will submit a testcase
<madnick> 1 sec
<knome> sure
<knome> 1,5h left ;]
<astraljava> Not taking it close by any means.
<knome> nope.
<madnick> http://ideone.com/dKIxv
<madnick> that should give a view of the current state
<knome> k
<knome> testing, initramfs building
<knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-9.png
<madnick> interesting
<knome> really
<knome> hmmm...
<knome> why isn't my desktop loading??
<madnick> that isnt my fault tho ;P
<knome> it is! :P
<madnick> I know 2 things
<knome> ok... :D
<knome> that's not much, but if it can help us...
<madnick> The substring function does not work as expected, and the huge gap is not because of a message
<knome> ok
<knome> weird, now the desktop loads
<knome> booted 1st time, didn't loa
<knome> booted 2nd time, loads
<knome> if it looks like we can't fix those, i prefer the padding on http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-7.png
<madnick> ok
 * knome is getting a bit nervous waiting for mr_pouit to get back
<madnick> I think the
<madnick> "keys:" is fixed now
<madnick> but
<knome> \o/
<madnick> The space remains...
<knome> that's not too awful.
<knome> but let's keep going, if we could spot the issue before mr_pouit is back
<madnick> no but it is weird
 * knome is pinging mr_pouit if that would get him here quicker.
<mr_pouit> I'm back already, but working on 3 uploads, so not really back :<
<knome> mr_pouit, mmh. those audio-things included?
<madnick> http://ideone.com/RxKk8
<madnick> how about that
<knome> updating initrmfs
<knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-10.png
<knome> huho
<knome> substr not perfect
<knome> and there was a #NULL
<knome> after those messages
<knome> before it's been "keys:"
<knome> now it was "#NULL"
<mr_pouit> knome: of course :]
<knome> mr_pouit, great! :]
<knome> mr_pouit, do you think you will have a bit time for this upload too? (:
<mr_pouit> dinner time soon
<knome> bleh
<knome> beta2 freeze time soon
<mr_pouit> but it should be ok (it's 21utc?)
<knome> i don't want the cut messages
<knome> 21utc, yes
<mr_pouit> so in 2 hours?
<mr_pouit> 1?
<knome> 1
<mr_pouit> meh
<knome> i know
<madnick> http://ideone.com/nYoEE
<knome> updating initramfs
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-11.png
<knome> madnick, unless you have *any* idea of the space, let's go with this
<madnick> no you see
<madnick> i fixed
<madnick> the substring error
<madnick> :)
<knome> yes
<knome> i did, that's why i think we should go with this
<knome> unless you know how to fix the space-problem
<madnick> ill have 1 more look
<madnick> gimme 5
<knome> ok
<knome> btw, now the line that used to be "keys:" is appearing as a empty newline
<knome> if that helps...
<knome> mr_pouit, we're ready for an upload soon
<micahg> mr_pouit: BTW, I just took your lightdm package with one fix as I never got around to merging with the pkg-xfce version, I can do that for Q
<micahg> *lightdm-gtk-greeter
<mr_pouit> yay \\o (for both)
<knome> we are the sultans of swing!! :)
<mr_pouit> I'll have to do a release of lightdm-gtk-greeter to reinclude all translations :<
<mr_pouit> knome: where's the code
<mr_pouit> +?
<knome> mr_pouit, i'm uploading it to xubuntu-artwork
<knome> mr_pouit, that ok?
<knome> mr_pouit, i will also add the patch for the bug
<knome> bug #961546
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961546 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Plymouth theme shows cut messages" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961546
<mr_pouit> care to explain this:
<mr_pouit> for(i = 4; i > 0; i--)
<mr_pouit> for(i = 0; i < 5; i++) {
<mr_pouit> what kind of black magic of harcoded thing is it?
<knome> mr_pouit, i think that's the stuff handling how the lines are appearing
<knome> mr_pouit, the hardcoded thing here is that we have a max. of 5 visible lines
<mr_pouit> okay, if it works, fine by me
<knome> it does, i've been testing it personally
<mr_pouit> (if it doesn't, you'll have to find someone else this night to upload a fix ;>)
<knome> we can make the code cuter at Q
<knome> no, really, i've tested it now 11 times...
<knome> ;)
<knome> (we're trying to fix other issues)
<knome> i'm waiting for one more upload, then i'm uploading to xubuntu-artwork (that's fine?) 
<madnick> index 4 down to index 1, then manually 0, the other line is for index 0 to 4, in this case it puts lowest index lowest
<knome> madnick, i'm pretty sure mr_pouit knows what for() does (:
<micahg> FWIW, I've not had an issue with xfce4-mixer and PA
<mr_pouit> ochosi: I uploaded xubuntu-artwork without the buggy folder, feel free to remove it from your git branch
<madnick> knome: no i mean, thats why i use it in that manner, to do the index like that, i could do in another order
<madnick> but
<knome> :)
<knome> madnick, is there a new paste to test?
<madnick> 1 sec, im going over another section
<knome> my finger is on the trigger, i don't want to make mr_pouit angry (:
<madnick> http://ideone.com/0P3uW
<knome> one last test!
<mr_pouit> [ubuntu/precise] lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.1.4-0ubuntu1 (New)
<mr_pouit> yay micahg 
<knome> yayy
<knome> yay our team
<knome> for breaking the Fe record ;)
<knome> i suppose, for any derivative, ever
<micahg> mr_pouit: sorry, I really should've just uploaded your version last month
<knome> madnick, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/precise_plymouth/shot-12.png
<knome> here we go then.
<madnick> grr
<mr_pouit> micahg: well, no big deal, since we couldn't have fixed anything in the greeter anyway (but now we can commit to it directly)
<micahg> well, now I just need to get my alioth auth sorted out and then I can request pkg-xfce access so I can fix the version there as well (from the list of fixes I had before)
<knome> mr_pouit, uploading to xubuntu-artwork once i get an ACK from release team
<knome> mr_pouit, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/precise/revision/176
<knome> madnick, one thing
<knome> madnick, in the last version
<knome> madnick, the empty newline still appeared
<knome> madnick, but, weirdly, the first message was still visible
<knome> madnick, so it was like; msg; empty line; msg; msg; empty line
<knome> madnick, though, not much we can do about it now :)
<knome> madnick, thanks for working on it, it's much better now!
<mr_pouit> knome: can I upload now?
<knome> mr_pouit, yes!!
<knome> mr_pouit, please confirm when it's uploaded and i can start breathing again
<madnick> knome: how do you mean?
<madnick> Is it not the same as the screenshot?
<knome> madnick, the screenshots are always *before* the last newline.
<knome> madnick, because that appeared only for a really little time
<knome> i need to pee.
<madnick> but the new line that appeared, appeard at the bottom right?
<knome> madnick, yes, but it made one of the two empty lines disappear
<knome> madnick, not the topmost message, as you'd expect
<madnick> hm
<mr_pouit> upload in 15~20min, as soon as optipng finished to take 100% in my test-build
<knome> hrrr :)
<mr_pouit> micahg: mmh, rejected?
<micahg> yeah, postinst needs lightdm for deterministic behaviour (see -release)
<micahg> new version coming
<knome> hehe, we're not even late!
<mr_pouit> so much fun tonight
<knome> mr_pouit, i owe you a beer or two, btw
<mr_pouit> hehe
<knome> mr_pouit, and if you come visit helsinki, we of course will accommodate you for free
<knome> madnick, btw, we're going to be at stockholm on 07-04
<madnick> :-O
<madnick> Touristing? ;)
<knome> yeah, traveling with 'the love boat'
<knome> coming with wife+sister+sister's husband
<madnick> :P
<mr_pouit> upload in progress
<mr_pouit> micahg: hopefully it will be accepted this time :P
<knome> mr_pouit, great :)
<micahg> accepted it was
<knome> mr_pouit, is it uploaded? :P
<mr_pouit> knome: you should have received a mail
<mr_pouit> micahg: nice, thanks \o/
<knome> mr_pouit, nope?
<mr_pouit> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes/2012-March/013215.html
<mr_pouit> the upload is from you ;>
<knome> mr_pouit, ta
<knome> but it's not in the ubuntu pkg by me :P
<knome> that's what i was asking :P
<knome> had got the message 15mins to 21UTC
<knome> no idea why it didn't appear in TB before than recently
<knome> thanks everybody for working hard to get everything in beta 2. now let's try to test it well! :)
 * knome is off until (at least) afternoon tomorrow, see you later
<Pjotr> micahg: thanks for the quick repair of gdebi
<Pjotr> @all: there's another issue I'd like to discuss with you all
<meetingology> Pjotr: Error: "all:" is not a valid command.
<Pjotr> Upstream (Xfce) won't repackage when there's no new application code. Even though there are new translations.
<Pjotr> There seems to be a way to get the new translations for those packages in Xubuntu after all: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Universe_Translations_in_LP
<Pjotr> As you can see, I've added a couple of essential Xfce packages that are mostly part of the Goodies and won't be repackaged ever.
<Pjotr> Can you help getting the translations for these packages in Launchpad, in time for Xubuntu 12.04? For Dutch, they are vastly improved upon the current ones, and I would really like to have them in Precise.
<leo-unglaub> hi
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-23
<ochosi> hey everyone
<ochosi> mr_pouit: fixed the icons in git as well. sorry i seemingly completely overlooked that folder earlier...
<astraljava> madnick: Have you wrote the email to the release mailing list?
<astraljava> written*
<knome> astraljava, there should be nothing except in the "what was done engineering wise"
<knome> but i really need to go now
<astraljava> Ok.
<knome> so see you later today
<astraljava> Yep, later.
<knome> bug 961744 and bug 961745
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961744 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Replace xfce4-mixer with pavucontrol" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 961745 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Prefer pavucontrol over xfce4-mixer in Xubuntu-session" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961745
<knome> should go there ^
<knome> see you, i'm running already! ->
<micahg> umm, lightdm-gtk-greeter uploaded...
<astraljava> micahg: mr_pouit: Am I right in saying that the only changes 'engineering wise' regarding Xubuntu only were the xubuntu-artwork update and the xubuntu-meta update for replacing mixer with pavucontrol? I didn't see any other archive changes in the logs for the past few days?
<micahg> astraljava: lightdm-gtk-greeter source uploaded (affects other teams)
<astraljava> Sadly I didn't pay that much attention previously, as I jumped to this co-position only yesterday...
<micahg> astraljava: hehe, thanks for helping :)
<astraljava> micahg: Ok, didn't know it was Xubuntu-sourced change. Thanks!
<micahg> well, our devs did it :)
<astraljava> Right, I guess that makes it so. :)
<micahg> on behalf of the rest of the flavors
<micahg> astraljava: blueman updated
<astraljava> ...for which I thank thee on behalf of Studio! :)
<micahg> astraljava: just look for mr_pouit uploads: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/precise-changes/2012-March/thread.html
<astraljava> micahg: Ahh... that seems like a list I should subcribe to.
<astraljava> madnick: Mail sent. Thanks micahg, knome!
<micahg> astraljava: lightdm-gtk-greeter was already upload, did you mean to include it in both sections?
<astraljava> micahg: Gah... I misread the section title. I'll write a correction.
<astraljava> grrr... stupid mutt.
<astraljava> ...and c&p... oh well, that'll do, I don't wanna spam any more. :)
<ochosi> can anyone confirm that gmusicbrowser has disappeared from indicator-sound in precise?
<ochosi> (i mean the launcher that's there even when gmusicbrowser isn't running)
<ochosi> (when gmusicbrowser is running, it's displayed there)
<ochosi> against which package would i report the bug? indicator-sound? xubuntu-default-settings?
<knome> astraljava, wow, thanks. that's a really good mail :)
<mr_pouit>  [D-BUS Service]
<mr_pouit> -Name=com.canonical.indicators.sound
<mr_pouit> +Name=com.canonical.indicator.sound
<mr_pouit> ^ ochosi: xubuntu-default-settings please (they renamed the service name)
<mr_pouit> o hai
<knome> hey
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, so i shall file a bugreport and attach this as patch? or do you actually want me to test it?
<ochosi> mr_pouit: ok, since it seemed a bit too trivial to test it, here's the bug: #963114
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963114 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Gmusicbrowser doesn't show in indicator-sound anymore (Precise)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963114
<ochosi> bbl
<mr_pouit> thanks, I tested it anyway
<astraljava> knome: Thank you, appreciated.
<astraljava> I'm in a bus, on my way to my mom's, so connection might be tricky, but I'll try to manage the meeting.
<knome> heh :)
<knome> k
<knome> i'm hungry.
<astraljava> knome: Pardon me, but it seems that my laptop's battery is going bad, and it tells me I only have 40 minutes left. I'm not sure whether we'll make it to Xubuntu in that time. Is there a chance you could answer any questions regarding it?
<astraljava> ...or madnick, for that matter. But I understood he's not online at the moment.
<GridCube> im doing today's test and im finding a problem when trying to launch the "OnBoard Configuration" from "configuration"(Â¿I guess thats the name in english?) and im getting a "cant be reported because of a "shared-mime-info" is obsolete?
<GridCube> in fact onboard itself fails to launch
<GridCube> the "undo" button on the calculator lacks an icon
<GridCube> for some reason catfish will autodefault to search its own folder instead of ~/
<scott-work> are there any outstanding FFe's that still require approval for beta
<scott-work> beta 2, that is
<scott-work> from the release-meeting
<scott-work> <ScottK> BTW, there was a volunteer to test powerpc images for Xubuntu on (IIRC) the QA list today. [10:46] <Riddell> volunteers to test the kubuntu images on arm welcome [10:47] <scott-work> skaet: i think he was on a tram with a laptop and low battery [10:47] <skaet> ScottK, interesting,  that's not one on Xubuntu's manifest for this release. [10:47] <ScottK> Yes.  They specifically asked if it could be added back. [10:4
<scott-work> arggh
<scott-work> <ScottK> BTW, there was a volunteer to test powerpc images for Xubuntu on (IIRC) the QA list today.
<scott-work> <skaet> ScottK, interesting,  that's not one on Xubuntu's manifest for this release.
<scott-work> <ScottK> Yes.  They specifically asked if it could be added back.
<scott-work> <ScottK> IIRC it was just dropped due to lack of testers.
<scott-work> <skaet> pitti, cjwatson,  ^ thoughts?
<scott-work> <pitti> question for xubuntu really; if someone wants them and can test them, sure
<scott-work> <pitti> we should just keep in mind that adding a powerpc image quadruples image build time
<scott-work> <ScottK> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-qa/2012-March/002054.html
<scott-work> <pitti> in case they need fast turnarounds for bug fixes
<scott-work> <pitti> but that's not a big blocker, of course
<scott-work> <ScottK> skaet: I'm not sure there are Xubuntu people active on that list.  Could you follow up with them since they aren't here?
<scott-work> <skaet> I'll follow up with Xubuntu team offline.
<astraljava> scott-work: Thanks! I spoke to skaet, and we could have a chat about powerpc later today. knome: mr_pouit: madnick: micahg: Able to participate in that talk?
<GridCube> bug #963216
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963216 in onboard (Ubuntu) "OnBoard Fails to launch on xubuntu 12.04 Beta2" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963216
<knome> ho?
<knome> astraljava, ^
<ochosi> does onboard still look as bad as on oneiric?
 * knome is currently revieweing the strategy document
<GridCube> ochosi: i don't know because i cant launch it :P
<GridCube> ochosi: also an icon is missing from the calculator
<ochosi> aha?
<ochosi> which one
<ochosi> (screenshot ideally please)
<GridCube> im getting it
<GridCube> http://imagebin.org/204848
<ochosi> a-ha
<ochosi> that must be new
<ochosi> last time i tested the calculator it still worked
<ochosi> (they obviously decided to switch to symbolic icons)
<ochosi> it's undo-symbolic
<GridCube> what else uses the undo-symbolic?
<ochosi> GridCube: could you please switch to the other modes and see whether there's anything else missing?
<GridCube> i did and there is not
<ochosi> every app that uses symbolic icons for the undo-buttons
<ochosi> ok, good to know
<ochosi> i'll see whether i can dig one up
<ochosi> (or better: i'll coordinate that with upstream elementary)
<ochosi> GridCube: could you please report a bug against xubuntu-artwork so that we don't forget about this?
<GridCube> ok 
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> brb
<GridCube> bug #963262
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 963262 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "calculator on xubuntu 12.04 beta2 is missing the undo icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/963262
<ochosi> ty
<ochosi> GridCube: it seems to be even worse when using ubuntu's own icon-theme (ubuntu-mono-dark or humanity-dark)
<astraljava> GridCube: Did you check the bug yours was marked as a dupe of?
<GridCube> yes i just did 
<astraljava> Seems like a classic python utf-8 bug. :)
<ochosi> GridCube: ok, i know how to fix it
<GridCube> im reoping the vbox to see if the workaround works :P
<astraljava> I can check how big changes there are in the trunk to the version currently in precise.
<GridCube> what the onboard or the calculator oc?
<GridCube> what the onboard or the calculator ochosi ?
<ochosi> calc
<ochosi> onboard works here
<GridCube> :P oh
<astraljava> ochosi: Oh? What version?
<GridCube> so its because mine its in spanish?
<ochosi> whatever version is in precise
<ochosi> (using the main server)
<ochosi> typing with the mouse is utterly slow though :)
<ochosi> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03232012-060336pm.php
<GridCube> oh... lookat that using LANGUAGE= en did the trick
<astraljava> GridCube: How are your language settings?
<GridCube> i installed it on es 
<GridCube> thats for spaÃ±ish
<GridCube> fun fact
<GridCube> even if i launch it wit he LANGUAGE=en the keyboard layout still is on latam :P
<astraljava> latam?
<GridCube> yes, latin amreican
<GridCube> theres two main layouts for spaÃ±ish keyboard, Spain Layout and LatinAmerican Layout
<GridCube> and then theres a lot more, but i've never seen them, i mean there are dvorak keyboards to and all that but i've never seen them
<astraljava> Right. Well, bzr log says it's fixed almost a week ago already, but the version in precise has latest debian/changelog entry from Feb. 21st.
<astraljava> It's troublesome, as this affects all flavors. I'm not sure we can do much about it.
<GridCube> i don't follow
<GridCube> you mean its not affecting just xubuntuÂ¿
<astraljava> Well, not all, but it's in the tasks: ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-usb, edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-usb.
<astraljava> ...as well as xubuntu-desktop.
<astraljava> I guess this issue has to be escalated to the Desktop Team.
<GridCube> mmkay, glad i spot it now then :3
<astraljava> Yep. Do you want to raise the issue there?
<GridCube> ochosi: i tried all the iconsets and they all broke the calculator
<GridCube> astraljava: i don't know how to, and your voice would be heard faster i say :D
<astraljava> Not really, haven't dealt with that team before at all.
<GridCube> ill do it if you want me to, but i don't really know what to say
<astraljava> GridCube: I'd just join the appropriate channel, voice the problem and link to the bug in LP. They will either pick up on it, or instruct on how to proceed with getting it updated.
<GridCube> :) ok, whats the channel?
<astraljava> It should be #ubuntu-desktop.
<GridCube> done :)
<astraljava> Most excellent! Thanks a bunch! :)
<micahg> astraljava: I'm around now, still need me?
<knome> astraljava, hmmp. i'm okay with the PPC build, but i'm not going to start supporting it officially, not even semi-officially, and i don't think we can throw next to any developer time to it
<astraljava> micahg: Kate hasn't started the discussion yet, but it regards the powerpc support. Do we have testers enough to support the manifest for precise?
<micahg> astraljava: who is we in this case?
<astraljava> micahg: Xubuntu Team.
<knome> micahg, http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-03232012-064511pm.php
<knome> astraljava, if we have *one* volunteer, err, no
<micahg> astraljava: no idea, that's why we dropped it in the first place
<knome> micahg, fix that!!!!
<knome> ;)
<micahg> knome: I don't have working hardware ATM
<knome> micahg, awwh
<knome> micahg, in that case... you can tell somebody else to fix that :)
<astraljava> micahg: That's what I was afraid of. I don't really know who that one volunteer is, but it was brought up in the release meeting today, and Kate was about to talk about it here.
<knome> skaet, 
<knome> 19:55  knome: astraljava, hmmp. i'm okay with the PPC build, but i'm not going to start supporting it officially, not even semi-officially, and i don't think we can throw next to any developer time to it
<knome> skaet, that ^
<skaet> hiya knome,  I don't know who the volunteer is either.
<skaet> and adding it will slow down your rebuild times...
<micahg> I don't mind adding back powerpc, we're in good shape regarding that
<micahg> the problem was without a tester, it was never releasable
<knome> skaet, please find out and tell him to stop at this channel, and we can rethink the issue together
<skaet> micahg,  it will make the xubuntu rebuilds about 4x slower if we have powerpc in the set, until all are done building.
<knome> skaet, also, if micahg can confirm he has the time to do at least some bugfixes for that, i'm okay with that too
<micahg> the only developer time is shuffling langpacks to not be oversized
<knome> skaet, but probably after PP, not *for* PP
<skaet> knome,  fair enough.
<micahg> skaet: we can always build it and not block on it
<micahg> knome: time, idk, but I try to fix those build issues in any event for xubuntu packages
<skaet> micahg, I think that looking at how we can stop blocking on it as part of the build infrastructure would give us more options.   we're not there yet, and unlikely to get there for P.
<knome> micahg, mm-hmm. 4Ã slower rebuilds doesn't sound good >__<
<astraljava> What machinery would run a powerpc build? If I get a job, I might be interested in getting some, if there are any cheaper ones.
<micahg> skaet: oh, you can't publish until they're all finished?
<skaet> micahg, yeah. :(
<micahg> astraljava: old Macs, IBM POWER servers
<knome> astraljava, ps3? ;)
<skaet> micahg, We can manually invoke a subset, but it gets fiddly and when things are under pressure, its another thing to get wrong, so I'd prefer to avoid it.
<astraljava> knome: But they pulled the support for installing other OS, didn't they? An older MBP I could think of acquiring.
<knome> astraljava, yeah, in the later revisions, or that might be related to the OS version too.
<micahg> astraljava: right, idk if ps3 is even unofficially supported at this point
<astraljava> micahg: Gotcha.
<knome> astraljava, you could try buying one with nhl '11, and see if that works first.
<micahg> skaet: are we getting a faster powerpc image builder, or did that already happen?
<astraljava> knome: I'll get back to the matter if/when I have a job.
<knome> :)
<skaet> micahg, ticket to swap in the faster PPC has been waiting for over 5 months now, so I'm not optimistic we'll get it this cycle.
<astraljava> So, I think the conclusion is not to add PPC builds for PP, we'll revise the decision for the PP+1. No?
<knome> yes, i think that's the most sensible thing to do at this point
 * skaet notes.   :)
<astraljava> Thanks. :)
 * genii-around ponders the two Molar Macs he has sitting at home under the stairs
 * astraljava goes to google for Molar Macs
<genii-around> PPC 750
<micahg> skaet: would you be averse to adding PPC for a point release if the testing and image building issues are fixed?
<skaet> micahg, yes.  Long time to support, and not what the interest level in the old version wll be like in 2 years time.
<skaet> s/yes/yes, I am averse to adding it to the point release/
<skaet> :)
<genii-around> astraljava: If someone is willing to pay shipping from Toronto to where you are, one or both of them are yours for free
<astraljava> genii-around: Thanks, but shipping such monsters to Finland, some 10k+ miles from Toronto, is probably more expensive than buying some here. :) Appreciate the thought, though.
<genii-around> astraljava: OK
<astraljava> Well, maybe not 10k+ miles, but kilometres at least. :)
<micahg> skaet: I would only consider it as a preview and non-blocking, not a firm commitment
<skaet> micahg, new hardware being added in point releases should only be used for firm commitments to support for the entire period.  The next development release seems like the best option for preview/non-blocking.
<GridCube> astraljava: they never answer on #ubuntu-desktop, so i don't know what to do and i have to go now, :/
<astraljava> GridCube: Ok, I'll join there and monitor if they react on it later.
<GridCube> mmkay want me to repost my question??
<astraljava> Yes, please. Thanks!
<GridCube> there :)
<GridCube> gotta go now, see yah
<astraljava> Thanks!
<astraljava> See ya later.
<astraljava> micahg: Alright, how do we go about it? An FFe (re: onboard)?
<micahg> astraljava: it's bug fix, I just need to ask skaet
<astraljava> micahg: Gotcha, thanks!
<micahg> brb, reboot
<ochosi> i'll be back on sunday evening or better on monday
<ochosi> have a nice weekend everyone!
<TheMouldyMarsBar>  /join #arbot
<TheMouldyMarsBar> Oops
<knome> pleia2, i sent email to the xfce devs on the logo issue, you've been cc'd
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-24
<knome> ochosi, on monday, or tuesday, shall we look at the countdown banners and finalize them so i can tell IS to upload them along with a script to xubuntu.org
<knome> hey j1mc :)
<j1mc> heya knome 
<knome> http://votritis.deviantart.com/art/Reloj-Conky-208415121
<knome> not bad at all
<astraljava> Yeah, pretty cool. I just don't have any desktop area visible, like, ever. So I won't bother. :)
<knome> heh
<knome> i suppose that was partly for the ongoing discussion whether to have some conky stuff by default
<astraljava> Ahh... sorry for interfering, then.
<knome> not that this helps at all deciding yes/no, but if we decide 'yes'....
<knome> heh, np
<knome> but yeah, that's a consideration
<knome> do people really have empty desktop space
<knome> if not, why bother
<knome> even if it made them look at their desktop more...
<knome> ...doesn't that just make them less effective?
<astraljava> I'd vote Â±0 for that reason.
<astraljava> Yeah, that's true.
<astraljava> But then some people have big enough screens, and only one or two windows open at any given time, then it's possible to preserve some space to show that on.
 * knome whistles
<knome> anyway, bbl
<knome> see you
<j1mc> knome: did you create some cool wallpaper for xubuntu 12.04? 
<knome> mr_pouit, you there?
<knome> mr_pouit, we need to touch the xubuntu docs package to update the logo and the color scheme a bit
#xubuntu-devel 2012-03-25
<knome> ochosi, you probably knew, but abiword loooks a bit weird. the ruler is white on gray
<astraljava> knome: Interesting, the Terminal help bug. Anyone on to that yet, or want me to?
<knome> astraljava, if you wish to, free to take it
<knome> btw, i didn't see any scrollbars-on-slideshow issues
<astraljava> I think Len also reported them having vanished by now.
<pleia2> knome: have a draft for the testing blog post in wordpress now, just working to add Charlie's notes
<knome> pleia2, great :)
<knome> pleia2, i tweeted about testing yday
<pleia2> knome: ok, blog post is ready for review
<pleia2> knome: heading out for the day for more venue visiting, feel free to publish if you think it looks good, otherwise we can talk about it later (tomorrow?)
<knome> pleia2, published, and tweeted
<knome> pleia2, we definitely need to review the wiki, and docs
<knome> pleia2, i did some wiki cleanup yesterday, but there's a lot more to do
<knome> pleia2, also, i've tweeted three times in the last 20h
<astraljava> knome: That's a weird one, the terminal F1 bug. If you use the string it wants to use in exo-open directly, it works. I'm building a debug build now to investigate further.
<knome> astraljava, have you tried to just remove the # ?
<knome> astraljava, i mean, if it has something to do with parsing the url, that # is not needed anyway...
<knome> astraljava, and parsing it what i think it very well might have to do about, looking at the error
<knome> astraljava, btw, what's your schedule tomorrow/tue?
<astraljava> knome: No, like I said, it works in exo-open _with_ the hash char.
<astraljava> I'm coming to town late tomorrow, but then the interview is at 9 am. on Tuesday, no idea about the plans for the rest of the day before the flight, yet.
<knome> astraljava, yes, i understand, but the terminal help is clearly having problems with the # :)
<knome> i don't know why i'm highlighting, though
<knome> maybe we should meet somewhere?
<knome> it would do me good to get out, and wife would like me to get out too. :)
<astraljava> knome: Hmm... that'd be strange if it did.
<astraljava> Yeah sure, we can have lunch, maybe?
<knome> astraljava, did you read the error?
<knome> sure! where are you having the interview?
<astraljava> Downtown.
<knome> :| i know
<knome> but more exactly where?
<astraljava> Heheh. :) Annankatu something, next to Funky Burger.
<knome> heh, right, you are thinking of grabbing something there? :P
<astraljava> Not this time, we went there when I was in Helsinki the last time.
<knome> ok
<knome> haven't been there, so was it any good?
<astraljava> It was alright. But quite expensive for my current situation.
<knome> i see
<knome> ah, so it's really close to the kamppi center
<astraljava> Yeah.
<knome> eerikin pippuri has some good kebab :)
<astraljava> Yes it does.
<astraljava> Lemme check the menu.
<knome> well, it's just the normal stuff :)
<knome> and sub-10â¬ too :)
<knome> (which is the only way to go with kebab...)
 * knome is not acting wisely
<knome> the coffee doesn't really help with the headache
<astraljava> Right, yeah that'll work.
<astraljava> What time do you expect you'll be able to start digesting food?
<knome> uah :)
<knome> noon
<knome> what time will you be free?
<astraljava> I don't suppose it'll last longer than 1.5h or so.
<astraljava> So noon will be fine.
<knome> right, i missed the iv time
<knome> well, i can get downtown earlier
<astraljava> Sure. But then there's the thing which might emerge later, the place where I went to an interview on Friday might recall me back, she sounded really convinced.
<astraljava> So let me get back to the schedule closer.
<knome> aha
<knome> okay
<knome> astraljava, heh no, that list is just list for all pages we have. but look, how clean!
<astraljava> gah! There's hundreds of 'em!!1one
<knome> yeah.
<astraljava> argh... frustrating. mr_pouit, micahg, madnick, somebody: How can I get debug information logged somewhere, _anywhere_, from an Xfce4 application? I have compiled with --enable-debug=yes, I use g_debug() to print out stuff, I pipe stdout and stderr into a file, and nothing appears.
<knome> astraljava, have you asked #xfce-dev? ;]
<astraljava> My google-fu fails me for a better process, so I'm stumped.
<astraljava> knome: I haven't, so far.
<knome> that's a good channel
<knome> sometimes it's quiet, but not always ;)
<astraljava> Alright, I'll try it next. Thanks!
<ochosi> mr_pouit: had you noticed that xfburn is in accessories as well as multimedia? (shouldn't we remove it from the former?)
<ochosi> hi everyone
<astraljava> Hi Simon.
<ochosi> hey astraljava 
<ochosi> astraljava: what up? (you calling me by my RN added so much gravitas to your greeting that i'm expecting something huge now :) )
<ochosi> reboot, brb
<astraljava> Hahaha. He fled! I WIN!! *evil cackle*
<astraljava> *ahem*
<astraljava> No, Simon. I do not intend you any harm. I'm just one of those who like to have a more personal "grasp" on people who I interact with on a regular basis. :)
<astraljava> To me, there is no separation between IRL and IRC.
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> yeah, well i guess people are different in that respect, but i don't mind if you don't make that separation
<knome> ochosi, i just understood it yesterday we need to update our logo in the doc package.
<knome> ochosi, it has the logo from over 2 years ago. to be exact, it has the old version of the old logo, which probably dates more than three years
<ochosi> knome: ah :)
<ochosi> where does that show up?
<knome> ochosi, applications -> help
<GridCube> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/common/images/headerlogo.png
<knome> i also understood we really need to update the docs as soon as possible, and get them uploaded to precise with SRU next july, if possible
<GridCube> that link shoudl actually work :P
<ochosi> uargh, true, we need to replace that logo
<knome> and also, i understood that we should take many short sprints to do that - and i know how - etherpad
<knome> paste a part of the documentation in a pad, get 5+ people to work on it and it's ready really soon.
<knome> when it's done, paste another part
<GridCube> >Copyright Â© 2009 Canonical Ltd.
<ochosi> knome: this will be a busy week for me, not really sure i'll have time for docs
<knome> GridCube, there is most probably parts that are more current, but yes, i think that's when most of the documentation is written
<knome> ochosi, we can't do this for precise
<knome> ochosi, we probably could squeeze in the english docs, but there would be absolutely no chance of getting the translations in
<knome> ochosi, that's why i said "SRU in july"
<ochosi> mhm, right, i'm a bit tired atm and not reading very closely ;)
<knome> no problem
<GridCube> knome, there are traduction engines for colaborative traductions
<knome> traduction??
<knome> right, translation
<GridCube> oh
<knome> no, that's not the issue
<knome> time is
<GridCube> mmm yes
<knome> i know there are good tools, but that's not realistic
<ochosi> i think for p+1 we should consider shipping the xfce docs
<ochosi> they have greatly improved
<knome> can't be realistic to get docs + translations done in one month, if the old docs date to more than 3 years.
<ochosi> e.g. in form of a wiki-snapshot
<knome> ochosi, sure, sounds good
<ochosi> we could even do that now
<knome> i suppose that's part of the work to be done
<knome> ochosi, do they come with translations?
<knome> anyway, i need to go for a while now
<knome> see you soonish again if you're still up
<knome> if not, good night
<ochosi> mhm, see ya
<knome> i'm back soon
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-18
<pleia2> knome: sorry, ended up being out all day
<knome> pleia2, np. hope you enjoyed it... :)
<astraljava> *blink* *blink* An actual response from gnome at 08:30 am?! I must be hallucinating.
<knome> ;]
<knome> i'm a man full of surprises
<astraljava> Hehe. :) 
<astraljava> What's up next weekend?
<knome> dunno yet. wife's free on sat, evening shift on sun.
<knome> so both work :)
<astraljava> Cool, I'll reserve either one, then. :)
<knome> hehe, just tell which one fits you better
<knome> we could try some gaming
<knome> so maybe sunday?
<astraljava> Sunday might be better, yeah.
<knome> ok, let's pick that. i'll call some people during the week and try to get a group together :)
<astraljava> Sounds awesome.
<abderraouf> hi
<abderraouf> what is xubuntu 13.04 kernel version?
<knome> the same that's in ubuntu 13.04
<knome> 15:16  stgraber: highvoltage, knome, Riddell, ScottK, zequence, phillw, (whoever else I forgot): Please make sure any slideshow change is in lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu by Wednesday 21:00 UTC. I'll review and upload on Thursday before UIF.
<knome> FYI
<knome> micahg, i think we need to drop one more language from precise desktop amd64. somebody just reported it's oversized :/
<bluesabre_> micahg, mr_pouit, got my ffe approved for catfish in raring: https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bug/1156555
<bluesabre_> I don't suppose either of you could make time to get it uploaded?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1156555 in catfish (Ubuntu) "[FFe] New Catfish version" [High,Triaged]
<knome> micahg, actually, the image from cdimage says it's 707MB, but it's actually 741.3MB as that user reported
<knome> WOOT?
<knome> nice surprise.
<GridCube> its nice not having to worry about going over 700 P:
<knome> we need to worry about precise still though
<GridCube> oh. precise
<GridCube> yeah :/
<micahg> knome: yeah, needs to be adjusted
<micahg> bluesabre: if I can figure out why it's not installing the python files, I'll upload
<lderan> good afternoon all :D
<micahg> knome: also, that's the difference between MiB and MB
<ochosi> micahg: gtk-theme-config got the FFe btw
<micahg> I know, thanks
<ochosi> ok, cool
<ochosi> is there anything else i can do for that?
<micahg> if it's packaged somewhere already, no
<micahg> I assume it's not in Debian, right?
<ochosi> it's in the shimmer ppa
<ochosi> yeah, it's not, cause at this stage it's only a simple script that does string-manipulation to override gtk-theme colors
<ochosi> (with a gui)
<ochosi> if it ever grows into something more serious, we'll consider it
<ochosi> for now it's a nice addon for ppl who complained like "booh, that theme is soo blue" or "that theme has such bright menus"
<ochosi> now they can adjust/fix that themselves
<skellat> And this is what was said in the big TB meeting: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-03-18-21.01.html
<skellat> I'd love to see one of these magical PPAs not leave armhf behind
<skellat> knome pleia2 Who needs nudging/tracked down from -docs to have a look at the proposed merge so that we can get an even slightly updated documentation package into 13.04 on time?
<knome> skellat, i believe anybody from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc would do
<pleia2> skellat: I don't know :( I've tended to nudge jbicha but he's muy busy
<knome> skellat, good luck finding somebody alive from that group
<pleia2> or yeah, what knome said
<pleia2> heh
<pleia2> I have an email out to jbicha to help solve this "everyone is dead" problem
<skellat> One little merge approval and then the problem starts to go away... :-)
<skellat> I added jbicha to the review requests
<skellat> So Launchpad should've pinged him
<knome> we should get somebody from xubuntu into that "%/!)# group.
<knome> not me.
<pleia2> that's my plan
<knome> me?
<knome> omg
<knome> okay.
<pleia2> no, pleia2
<knome> hah :)
<knome> in that case, i don't mind being added as well.
<knome> O:)
<pleia2> I'll join the ranks of existing people too busy to actually do anything, it's brilliant
<knome> yes, as we all
<skellat> Well, if you both could take a look at this and leave comments I'll try to ping that team's lead via Launchpad: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/153668
<Unit193> Mine is good to merge into raring, but not quantal so I didn't make a merge request.
<knome> skellat, done.
<knome> so jjesse and mdke can add people to the committer team
<knome> PMing jjesse, let's see if he's around (was 45mins ago)
<skellat> Sent a ping via Launchpad
<skellat> To ubuntu-docs-core, that is
<knome> mmh
<skellat> Hopefully somebody wakes up 
<knome> i think the best thing would simply GIMME SOME POWER NOW
<knome> :P
<knome> i could fix it myself, and didn't need to poke around
<pleia2> well not me yet, since i don't know what I'm doing
<knome> i could even promise i wouldn't touch other than xubuntu
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> I WON'T
<pleia2> I think there is a process for being added
<knome> do i even need to promise that? :P
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization#Requirements_for_Ubuntu_Documentation_Committers
<knome> i think that's crap, because nobody is active in the group anyway
<knome> so they'll throw more bureaucracy at us but they can't even handle the basic things themself?
<knome> right...
<pleia2> charming that they don't tell you how to join
<Unit193> Kind of true, but just because it is inactive doesn't mean qualtiy should drop off the map fully.
<knome> no.
<skellat> Just keep filing patches until they notice you're there is what it boils down to
<knome> but the problem is that flavors are stuck with this procedure
<knome> i'm not going to send patches for the ubuntu docs
<skellat> And my laptop is about to die and I'm not sure where my charger is at the moment
<Unit193> Oh, and can we get a search in it?  :P
<knome> seriously, i handled >50% of the docs update for xubuntu last cycle
 * skellat disappears for the time being to search for things around the house
<pleia2> knome: you do meet the requirements for this team, commits and docbook and all that
<knome> i'd imagine i'm able to do a few changes this time as well.
<pleia2> (I don't :))
<knome> pleia2, i can teach you *that*
<knome> so you don't need to poke jbicha too much
<knome> if he's too busy anyway
<pleia2> yeah, I actually know how to do this stuff, just haven't for ubuntu, so don't have tht demonstrated track record or whatever
<knome> heh
<pleia2> well, I don't know the ubuntu-specific flow, but docbook and bzr I'm good
<knome> " We also ask that the applicant has interacted with members of the group, by posting to the mailing list fairly regularly, and/or frequenting the irc channel. "
 * knome laughs out loud
<pleia2> party in the ghost town
<knome> they have a good track record in that as well...
<knome> ;)
<knome> there should be some expiration stuff in any team
<knome> when teams get empty, it doesn't matter who's give the admin rights first.
<knome> you need to build from scratch anyway
<pleia2> several are still active, they're just busy, I see flavors represented mostly
<knome> mh.
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-19
<knome> skellat, pleia2: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/+members#active
<scottbomb> Neither gmusicbrowser nor parole are able to play music from either a local drive or samba share but VLC is able to play them fine. Trying to launch from Thunar.  I can't tell what the error is because nothing happens. 
<scottbomb> Interestingly, Parole launches from the command line
<pleia2> knome: great!
<scottbomb> Now they work after a reboot however gmusicbrowser hangs when I ask it to play a song on a network share
<pleia2> scottbomb: I think you want #xubuntu
<pleia2> this is the dev channel, lots more people in the support channel :)
<scottbomb> Ok. Just wondering if someone could tell me what package to file a bug report against as I thought this was the channel for that
<scottbomb> I'll take it over there if this keeps up. Just testing the iso
<pleia2> oh, sorry, you should have asked :)
<pleia2> 13.04?
<pleia2> and did you try launching it from terminal to see if it puts errors there?
<scottbomb> Sorry, I wasn't clear on what I was doing. Yes, testing today's build. I'll look up to see how to access shares from the terminal and report any errors
<pleia2> I mean, just open a terminal and type: gmusicbrowser
<pleia2> then try to play music from samba or whatever isn't wrking
<pleia2> see if it outputs any errors in the terminal
<Unit193> knome: Great!
<knome> pleia2, skellat: so  https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/  is now fixed
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> i'm not sure why the branch doesn't show skellat's branch merged
<knome> let's see what the code says
<knome> hmm, no
<knome> WEIRD.
<knome> doesn't show up in the quantal branch either
<Unit193> I am really sorry if I didn't do that right, but merge requested.
<knome> i will look at that when i sort this out.
<Unit193> Sure, no hurry.
<knome> Unit193, merged.
<Unit193> Wonderful!  Hope it helps.
<knome> definitely
 * knome sits down after a busy day and listens to the new kashmir album
<Unit193> Hmm....I should find that.
<knome> you should *buy* that
<knome> just fyi though, it's a bit different than the previous one (once again)
 * skellat recommends the band "Moon Hooch" that he heard as the opening act for They Might Be Giants down at the Beachland Ballroom in Cleveland over the weekend
 * knome notes
<knome> skellat, your commit has now safely landed in /raring
<skellat> Excellents
<skellat> s/Excellents/Excellent
<knome> that reminds me to approve you to the doc team as well.
<Unit193> I should check for more problems...
<skellat> Unit193: I'm already looking at reverting the offline updating text since you reintroduced Keryx which is kinda sorta abadonware now
<Unit193> skellat: I didn't add that to the Xubuntu docs, though.  It's an interesting project, and I know someone involved, but it is a little dated.
<Unit193> (Ah, I see, sorry about that.)
<skellat> :-)
<skellat> I'll deal with it in yet another merge proposal
<skellat> Eventually
<Unit193> Part of the other updating, should have built off your patch.
<skellat> It happens
<skellat> Remind me, what is our default file compression tool we install if we do?
<knome> file-roller
<skellat> Okay.  I was thinking squeeze for a moment but couldn't remember.
<skellat> Copying files with File Browser (a.k.a. Thunar) to a dedicated space under backup tips is okay but using file-roller should also be mentioned as you can make archives...even though file-roller really isn't a backup program per se
<knome> yeah
<knome> now that we have space on the image we might consider a backup application
<skellat> tar & xz-utils :-)
<skellat> We mention DejaDup and LuckyBackup in the offline documentation
<knome> i use a rsync-based backups myself, but that's not suitable for most
<skellat> Well, we've got the two mentioned in the docs.  I suppose picking one or the other to add would be good if not using both.  Probably need to check if they're actually in repos, though.
<knome> i believe they are
<knome> and yes, picking one would be good
<skellat> luckybackup has got the most straight-forward dependencies
<skellat> deja-dup hits a three-ways suggests dependency depending upon back-end whether to AWS, Rackspace, or Ubuntu One
<Unit193> http://pastebin.com/PHBNxuuy if I'm lazy, but I normally use the actual commands.
<ochosi> knome: i agree on the backup solution
<ochosi> and having one with some cloud-abilities would seem timely...
<skellat> ochosi: Well, deja-dup has the cloud back-ends
<ochosi> wanna write an app-comparison?
<skellat> Not yet
<knome> <3
<skellat> Still gotta help with getting dinner set up
<ochosi> sure no rush
<knome> the question that usually gets negative answers
<ochosi> will be too late for R anyway
<knome> yeah
<knome> well,
<knome> documentation still isn't
 * skellat notes on his way to the kitchen table that he did some stuff and filed a new merge
<ochosi> :)
<pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/1089744
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1089744 in gwibber (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu doesn't pull required dependencies for anything using "Online Accounts"" [Undecided,New]
<pleia2> this is actually quite unpleasant
<pleia2> I had to pull in a pristine PPA for shotwell to hook it up with flickr again, and just gave up with gwibber
<ochosi> why does this only happen in xubuntu?
<pleia2> I believe lubuntu had (has?) this problem as well
<knome> skellat, just checking if it's intentional that you didn't link the apt-offline page anywhere yet?
<ochosi> pleia2: weird, we're using the same stuff (apt, usc) that ubuntu uses...
<pleia2> I should probably check if this is still the case in 13.04 ;)
<knome> that sounds like a packaging bug
<skellat> knome: Hmm, thought I added it to the index and then in managing applications referred to it in managing-applications using an xref like the index page refers to other pages
<knome> oh, right, you did
<knome> my bad
<knome> pleia2, if you are in any sharper condition than i am, can you review the new page/content quickly?
<knome> other than that, it looks fine for me
<knome> skellat, btw, in the future, it would make things faster if you pasted the merge request urls on the channel
<pleia2> what am I looking at?
<knome> ...for that exact reason! :D
<knome> https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/154212
<knome> see the diff
<knome> at the bottom we have this new page
<pleia2> ty
<knome> if that text seems to be fine for you, approve
<knome> and i'll merge
<Unit193> FWIW, I have a script to update it on my server every week. :P
<pleia2> we don't like Keryx anymore? (sorry if this was discussed earlier)
<Unit193> pleia2: Dated, last commit '10 and not in repos, IIRC.
<pleia2> I've never heard of it
<knome> pleia2, wasn't, but it seems to be dead
<pleia2> ah good
<Unit193> Sad. :P
<knome> Unit193, some motivation for your friend working on it; if they release more often and it's get back to the ubuntu repositories, we'll reinclude it in our documentation!
<pleia2> I didn't do technical review, but the words seemed fine, thanks skellat!
<Unit193> knome: Friend kind of works on it, friends friend is the driver. :P
<Unit193> knome: Copied your message. ;)
<knome> good
<knome> pleia2, skellat: merged and pushed. thanks
<pleia2> gold stars all around!
<knome> Unit193, if you wish, i can add you to ~xubuntu-doc
<knome> Unit193, that gives you nothing except an icon in LP though, and some bragging rights
<Unit193> knome: I don't think I do enough, and I think it'd be a good idea (at least for now!) to review whatever I commit, but thanks.
<knome> i will need to review it anyway.
<knome> that team has no superpowers
<Unit193> Well, if you think I contribute enough, go for it.
<knome> only today i was given the magic super powers for ~ubuntu-core-doc
<ochosi> knome == supercow
<knome> our strategy document says Â»Â» Commit meaningful contributions to one of the subteams; you will be approved to the subteam for "probation" by a subteam administrator
<knome> and you're part of -team already, which is the goal in getting in for "probation"
<knome> so... you're climbing butt first to the tree
<knome> but that's fine.
<knome> added.
<knome> also, i'm trying to involve you more.
<knome> :)
<ochosi> +1
<knome> that's the unwritten part... :)
<Unit193> Dowh.....
<knome> skellat, when your conscience says it's ok to do it, please add yourself to the credits page :)
<knome> micahg, would you have some time for UI-related uploads before the UIF?
<micahg> mmaybe
<micahg> depends what
<knome> could you cooperate with ochosi? we have all the FFe's ready (where needed)
<micahg> I can try
<knome> ochosi, ping
<ochosi> micahg: hi! basically xubuntu-artwork needs a bump
<ochosi> i can push to trunk, but it needs an upload
<micahg> everything committed?
<micahg> ok, please push and I'll take a look later
<ochosi> not yet, when would be a good time for you to upload?
<knome> micahg, thanks :)
<ochosi> micahg: btw, just out of curiosity: gtk-theme-config will be uploaded by you or do i need to bug someone from the release team?
<micahg> I can take a look at that later as well
<knome> was the freeze 12 UTC tomorrow
<knome> or do i always remember that time wrong
<micahg> thursday :)
<knome> oh!
<knome> oh!
<micahg> 2100
 * knome was living wednesday today
<knome> phew
<ochosi> micahg: still around?
<micahg> yeah
<ochosi> so, the package that needs an update most is shimmer-themes
<ochosi> i've just added new tags to all our gtk-themes on github
<ochosi> but i can put together a shortlist for you, so it's easier to keep an overview
<micahg> hrm , I can only update that if there are instructions in the apckage
<ochosi> i think all you have to do is download a tarball of each theme and throw the unpacked themes in the package
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-20
<ochosi> micahg: what kind of instructions would you need?
<micahg> pulling tarballs + packaging, idk, haven't looked at that pacakge yet
<ochosi> micahg: i'm heading for bed soonish, is it ok if i try to put everything i know/think that needs to be done in an email or a pastebin for you?
<micahg> ochosi: nah, should be ok
<ochosi> micahg: ok, for convenience i'll at least give you a list of themes incl. links to the respective tarballs for Raring
<ochosi> micahg: there you go: http://dpaste.com/1028397/
<knome> links that are not links are stupid
<knome> :<
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> yeah somewhat true
<ochosi> i guess that's a pastebin problem
<knome> they could auto-<a> links
<ochosi> sure
<knome> or as most would say, "autolink urls"
<knome> but meg
<knome> *meh
<ochosi> but it's a dumb plaintext service
<knome> i don't think the dumbness is the problem, resources are ;)
<ochosi> yeah, i kinda meant that
<ochosi> it's "dumb" by design
<ochosi> ok, i'm off for tonight
<ochosi> see y'all
<knome> good night
<skellat> Added another bit of documentation as to how to use apt-offline: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/154230
<skellat> Gotta remember to get it and apt-offline-gui on the CD
<knome> skellat, would describing apt-offline-gui be any longer than the current one?
<skellat> Hold on
<skellat> I'm on precise on my laptop also watching NCIS too
<Unit193> Minor detail, my merge also s/leafpad/mousepad/ and fixed some info on DNS servers.
<Unit193> skellat: Booo.  :P
<knome> Unit193, i'll try to remember to add that to the changelog next time
<skellat> Unit193: We're in the same state.  If memory serves, you should be able to watch NCIS on WOIO-TV even. :-)
<Unit193> knome: If you feel like it.
<skellat> Channel 19 covers not just Ashtabula but Greater Mansfield too
<Unit193> skellat: NCIS is on my ban list, and not really anything comes in around here.
<skellat> knome: Actually, give me about an hour and I'll probably get apt-offline-gui described
<skellat> knome: Would I need to resubmit if I push a new commit to Launchpad, though?
<knome> umm, i don't know
<knome> i just made a "resubmit" review
<knome> there's the "resubmit proposal" button at the top right of the MR page
<knome> that would do it
<knome> Unit193, was there bug numbers for the fixed you just mentioned?
<knome> *fixes
<Unit193> knome: Not that I know of.
<knome> Unit193, pushed a new changelog
<Unit193> Heh, well I suppose that works too.
<knome> skellat, this isn't a hard requirement, but if you think there's a way to describe the needed steps without point to any specific application name, that would be good
<knome> skellat, or use an example like xubuntu-desktop
<skellat> knome: I pulled something high from popcon that wasn't in the base install
<skellat> I can adjust that, though
<knome> mmh
<knome> as i said, not a hard requirement
<skellat> I'm adding the language about apt-offline-gui now
<knome> i need to go to bed soon
<pleia2> me too
<knome> pleia2, huh? it must be like afternoon there :)
<pleia2> (just kidding, but I am tired!)
<pleia2> it's 6pm, getting ready to go out to a lug meeting
<skellat> knome: No worries.  I'll fiddle with stuff and have more for you in the morning to play with.
<knome> pleia2 can approve too
<skellat> Okay
<knome> it's just that i have to do the actual merges
<skellat> I'll just hit resubmit before I go to bed.  Tomorrow is a driving day so I'll be disconnected as I have appointments around the 700+ square miles of Ohio's largest county.
<knome> mh, good luck and strength for that
<skellat> knome: Thanks
<hayden_> Is Xubuntu planning on doing anything with the Ubuntu Touch OS?
<knome> at the moment no and in the future most probably no
<Unit193> http://screenshots.debian.net/package/apt-offline-gui Ah, not bad.
<knome> ok, i'm off for today
<knome> see you tomorrow
<hayden_> Out of curiosity, why is gimp being added in to 13.04 by default?
<micahg> gimp was only removed due to lack of space, we added more space, so it went back
<hayden_> Ahh, I see. Is there anything else that's being considered to add by default?
<micahg> meh, uploads in the morning
<GridCube> knome, http://ubottu.com/ljl/apt/ this place jsut list to precise, no quantal, who i should report that?
<knome> LjL
<skellat> https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/154236
<scottbomb> 	Question for anyone here. I am testing the Xubuntu 13.04 ISO. I tested 2 random languages, Armenian and Bangla. I logged out and back in with each and nothing is translated. Does this mean that no one has done the translation or should I file a bug? If it's a bug, against what package do I file it?
<ochosi> scottbomb: did you change the language in the greeter?
<scottbomb> yes
<scottbomb> works for German and French
<ochosi> have you tried a reboot?
<ochosi> after installing that is
<scottbomb> Only after installing ISO, not just the lang packs
<scottbomb> rebooting now to see if that helps
<scottbomb> Rebooted machine and selected Armenian on greeter but icons and menu are all in English, except for Software Center, which is in Armenian.
<ochosi> then maybe much of it is not translated yet
<ochosi> to armenian
<ochosi> or some language-packs are missing
<micahg> we don't install armenian and bangla on the ISO
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<scottbomb> Ok, so not a bug then. The same is true for Bangli except some is translated, some not. If I'm not mistaken, the machine downloaded the languages when I installed them for testing.
<ochosi> micahg: actually i have to run off now, but maybe we can talk later :)
<micahg> ok
<Unit193> http://xubuntugeek.blogspot.com/2013/02/news-1gb-iso-for-xubuntu-1304-raring.html#comment-form if anyone was interested.
<Unit193> skellat: And you didn't see a simple way to remove the package name?  Re: Merge.  (I have no commit powers, so can't be of much help.)
<Unit193> knome: Ah, so technically we should be able to close https://code.launchpad.net/~giuseppeterrasi/xubuntu-docs/margin/+merge/128380  with a link to  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/raring/revision/20  no?
<knome> Unit193, yes.
<Unit193> knome: Heard back, and Keryx has been geared towards maintence due to development constraints, they continue to work with bugfixes as time allows.
<knome> ok.
<Unit193> knome: Want me to close it?
<knome> Unit193, if you're on it, sure
<knome> Unit193, i think LP should close it when the new package is uploaded
<knome> (i mean automaticallY)
<knome> at least the bug # is mentioned on the changelog
<Unit193> Ah, alright.
<knome> but i don't know
<knome> huh
<knome> pitivi is far from the stablest apps
<knome> it even beats inkscape 10-0, and that's bad
<knome> hmm
<Unit193> Wasn't there another sane application to use?
<knome> pitivi seems to scratch my itch the best.
<knome> apart from crashing.
<Unit193> Hah.
<knome> i think i'm just doing something weird
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-21
<skellat> Unit193: Alrighty.  Got home and fixed what was written as I seemed to also forget to include some steps that I incorrectly assumed the reader would carry over from the previous example.
<skellat> Already pushed it upwards to Launchpad.
<micahg> ochosi: the new themes seem to be the only difference in your paste
<ochosi> micahg: that's because mr_pouit uploaded a new package last night
<ochosi> micahg: he decided not to upload the new themes because we're too close to UIF
<c2tarun> I want to contribute to Xubuntu. I am familiar with application development. Can anyone please suggest me that I should start from fixing bugs or packaging?
<knome> c2tarun, you'll want to talk to micahg and mr_pouit as well as bluesabre_ who's helping us out a lot right now
<knome> c2tarun, but basically, a good starting point is to fix anything that scratch your itches
<c2tarun> knome, hmm... till now I am not able to find any bugs. Also seems like the guys you suggested are away. I'll wait for them. Meanwhile I am trying to learn some packaging, I figured out that learning some packaging might help in application development a bit.
<knome> c2tarun, that helps too :)
<knome> and yes, people are busy... now that i pinged them, they'll most probably get back to you when they are back if you hang out in the channel
<micahg> ochosi: ah, ok, anything else left?
<c2tarun> setting up a chroot is better or installing full release in virtual box is better?
<knome> i suppose that depends what you like yourself
<c2tarun> knome, well, I don't have any problem in using command prompt, also I don't have very fast internet connection, I'll try with chroot first.
<knome> you might not even need either of them, depending on what you are working
<c2tarun> knome, I'll prefer not to mess up my current installation :( I am on Ubuntu 12.04. Its written in guide that its best to work on current development release, I guess that is raring ringtail
<knome> c2tarun, yes, that's it
<bluesabre_> hey c2tarun, if you're interested in fixing bugs, parole could always use some help
<knome> bluesabre_, :P
<c2tarun> bluesabre_, hi :) who is parole, I don't think he is in the channel.
<bluesabre_> woops, parole media player
<c2tarun> bluesabre_, ohhh :) I was about to ask what, but I thought someone might get offended.
<c2tarun> bluesabre_, thanks :) I'll look into its bugs, does xubuntu also maintain bugs on launchpad?
<bluesabre_> some bugs are there, but the xfce applications track their bugs on the xfce bugzilla
<bluesabre_> here's parole's bugzilla:
<bluesabre_> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&product=parole&list_id=11231
<bluesabre_> and the code is at http://git.xfce.org/apps/parole
<c2tarun> bluesabre_, great thanks :)
<bluesabre_> if you're interested in other projects, there's catfish (on launchpad), lightdm-gtk-greeter (also on launchpad), and ochosi, mr_pouit, and micahg would know where to find other bugs and what other projects we're currently focused on
<ochosi> micahg: yes, actually we wanted to upload a new version of the lightdm-gtk-greeter to Raring, that hasn't happened yet
<ochosi> micahg: i guess bluesabre_ would have to do a new release of it though, i'll be away during the next ~4hrs or so
<bluesabre_> ochosi, no can do
<bluesabre_> no linux here
<bluesabre_> I'll see about doing it tonight
<bluesabre_> mr_pouit, are there any special things you do for new releases on that?
<abderraouf> hi all
<GridCube> hi
<abderraouf> i try xubuntu 13.04 beta1 and a find the window border "shaking and confused" when moving the window.
<abderraouf> i try it on live dvd
<holstein> !raring | abderraouf 
<ubottu> abderraouf: Ubuntu 13.04 (Raring Ringtail) will be the 18th release of Ubuntu, Discussion and support until final release in #ubuntu+1
<abderraouf> ?????????
<holstein> abderraouf: the #ubuntu+1 channel is where to go for 13.04
<abderraouf> ok
<holstein> abderraouf: though, this is the dev channel, and i dont think its OT.. just maybe not "noticed" as quickly
<abderraouf> maybe it is a bug
<holstein> abderraouf: what graphics driver?
<abderraouf> i9xx
<holstein> abderraouf: you could test with "nomodeset" and see, i suppose
<abderraouf> how install nomodeset?
<abderraouf> sudo apt-get install nomodeset
<abderraouf> ?
<knome> nomodeset, the kernel option
<abderraouf> how do it please
<Unit193> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Intel#X_freeze.2Fcrash_with_intel_driver is what I look at for graphics issues I have, but I'm sure I have a different card even though we may both use i915.
<holstein> !nomodeset
<ubottu> A common kernel (boot)parameter is nomodeset, which is needed for some graphic cards that otherwise boot into a black screen or show corrupted splash screen. See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1613132 on how to use this parameter
<holstein> i would try that since that should work from the live CD ^^
<abderraouf> but it is not freeze and crash :) window border "shaking and confused" when moving the window.
<knome> abderraouf, is that on a virtual machine of real hardware?
<knome> *or
<holstein> abderraouf: with nomodeset as well?
<abderraouf> real hardware
<knome> ok
<abderraouf> i have to try nomodeset?
<abderraouf> what it is do?
<holstein> abderraouf: you dont have to do anything.. but that is a way to remove some variables, and get an idea of what could be the issue, while using a live CD
<abderraouf> and what's you need?
<holstein> abderraouf: i dont need anything.. if it were me, and i were exeperiencing the issue you are having, i would try with the nomodeset option
<abderraouf> ok
<abderraouf> am will try with nomodeset
<abderraouf> hi
<abderraouf> back
<abderraouf> it is the same problem
<abderraouf> so?
<skellat> And it looks like we've hit UI Freeze
<skellat> How long until Documentation Freeze?
<knome> 2 weeks until doc string freeze
<skellat> Okay
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-22
<Unit193> skellat: You around?
<alpacaherder> Unit193: I had to take my Mom to the doctor's office so I've been out of the house since before I saw your ping when I had a moment to pull up logs.  I'll be home in a couple hours.  My ZNC is unreachable from outside home's walls.
<alpacaherder> Unit193: Read this in the meantime and I'll be under my normal nick once I get back home from THEFARM: https://help.launchpad.net/Code/Review
<scottbomb> If thumbnail images are not displaying is this a bug against tumbler?
<Unit193> skellat: Well, since you'll be home soon enough, I went ahead and generated it: http://unit193.tk/xubuntu/desktop-guide/offline-packages.html.  If you note the end of the third and the fourth paragraph seem to be a slight mixup.  Since you asked me for a review, my *personal* thought would be to compare apt-offline set --update apt-offline.sig  to  sudo apt-get update, and I'd personally also note that if you drop off --update, it'll ...
<Unit193> ... basically run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade.  Do you think it's clear enough that the instructions are only updating the list of software?  When I've thought it had enough info, whoever I was helping didn't seem to get it.  (I tend to assume people apt-get update or otherwise keep that updated so I don't tell them to do it before installing something, that has been a slight issue before.)
<scottbomb> Testing install of daily ISO. Thumbnails are not generating for image files in any application that uses them
<Unit193> scottbomb: Check to see if it is running (ps aux | grep thumb), make sure it's enabled, and that you aren't on a remote filesystem or the files aren't too large.
<Unit193> skellat: I haven't ever needed to do offline packages (well, not precisely anyway), so what info may and may not be needed I think you would know more.  I noticed you either didn't have how to do a system update, or I missed it.  Was this intended?
<scottbomb> No, I don't see it running
<Unit193> scottbomb: Whoops, was thinking of the wrong application, it'd be close to  ps aux | grep tumb
<scottbomb> ok I think that one is running. output is 1000 6453 0.0 0.0 4680 812 pts/2 S+ 14:06 /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/tumbler-1/tumblerd
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-23
<skellat> Unit193: Alrighty, I think it should look a little better now: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/154236
<Unit193> I just think it's odd having "back at the disconnected computer" twice, but it does clearify where you should be.  --update --upgrade is default, but that's pedantic. You really need to do --update twice?  Wow...  As a workaround for flash,  you can enable the partner repo and install adobe-flashplugin.  Looks pretty good!
<Unit193> skellat: For some of my data, I've just been going off the manpage http://man.cx/apt-offline so it's not first hand.  Thanks for taking an interest in getting this in.
<skellat> Unit193: Doing --update twice is just a safety measure
<skellat> You don't *have* to do it
<skellat> It is the **safe** thing to do
<Unit193> That works for me.
<skellat> The one thing I don't mention in the direction is that there may be significant time that passes before you get to a connected computer
<skellat> Considering how Time Warner Cable has been swinging from .3 Mbps down to 1.8 Mbps down even though we're paying for 2 Mbps down as of late...the directions aren't mere abstractions to me but things I have to keep in mind
<skellat> Pardon me, that should be "oscillating" between .3 Mbps down *or less* and 1.8 Mbps down
<skellat> Unit193: That man page is very old as it has a caveat even the man page in *Precise* doesn't have
<lderan> time to see what bugs I can fix 
<lderan> well hopefully i can find a bug which i can help with lol
<GridCube> lderan, why dont you check http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-raring/group/topic-raring-flavor-xubuntu.html and see if there's anything there you can do :)
<lderan> will do GridCube 
<GridCube> :D
<lderan> well i can look into making the meetingology bot output wiki friendly, also have no issues with helping with documentation until i am upto speed with x/ubuntu bug fixing
<pleia2> I think ochosi can chime in here too, but I believe bug fixing upstream in debian (the xfce packages) is pretty important too
<skellat> The sooner Wheezy gets done, the better
<pleia2> err, not ochosi, mr_pouit!
<pleia2> skellat: for sure
<skellat> The 100 bug wall finally got cracked so the Debian folks need help making it across the finish line
<pleia2> I'm on this list http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-xfce-devel
<pleia2> yeah, 93 was it? woo
<lderan> will see what i can do to help, probably not much lol
<pleia2> heh, I'm a sysadmin by trade - programming is not my forte :) so you can certainly help more than I!
<pleia2> I'm mostly on that list to keep an eye on bugs that I know will pop up and bother people (and me)
<lderan> fair enough
<skellat> pleia2: I think this is ready for you to take a look at: https://code.launchpad.net/~skellat/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/154236
<pleia2> skellat: running out to door now, but I'll take a look later
<pleia2> thanks for working on this <3
<skellat> Not a problem
<knome> lderan, if you want to look at the meetingology output, AlanBell can help you with the meetingology side, and i can help you with the side what kind of output we want
<lderan> sounds good to me
<knome> lderan, for that, you want to join #meetingology :)
<lderan> :P
<knome> looks like the IS "fixed" ubuntu wiki tables
<Cheri703> I know it's too late for 13.04, but I noticed something today that seems like it should be in place for 13.10 (or whatever the next one is)
<Cheri703> the login screen doesn't have access to on-screen keyboard from the accessibility menu
<Noskcaj> Cheri703, yeah, the login screen needs improvement
<knome> the thing is, accessibility isn't working well anyway
<Cheri703> It'd be great to have it for people who are unable to use a normal keyboard, but I just needed it because my bluetooth one wasn't being recognized. If I didn't have a backup USB one floating around, I would have been locked out of my computer due to lack of a shortcut to onboard. which isn't great.
<knome> as i said, accessibility in general isn't working well. if it all worked as expected, we'd probably put more effort in getting the login screen to work
<knome> it doesn't help much to be able to log in to an unaccessible desktop
<Cheri703> it does if the reason you need it isn't accessibility per se
<Cheri703> once I was in, I could troubleshoot why my bluetooth wasn't connecting. but without being able to log in, I had no way to do that
<Cheri703> I'd think it couldn't hurt to add one shortcut to the login screen, regardless of anything else being "fixed". but I'm not a dev, so who knows
<knome> the reality is that we either fix the login screen so you can login when your bluetooth kb isn't working or do 10, 20 or 30 other things
<Cheri703> yeah, I totally have no idea how much of an ordeal it is to fix that, or if that ONE fix will apparently keep work from happening on up to 30 other things, but it was just something I figured I'd point out as a lacking feature that at least vanilla ubuntu has.
<knome> i reality i don't know the real workload either, but that's definitely not our main focus
<knome> vanilla ubuntu has lots of features we don't
<Cheri703> well yes, but it's pretty standard across operating systems to have a keyboardless option for logging in. it's pretty basic
<knome> some of them are design decisions, some of them are limitations by xfce/other things we use and some of them are limitations from developer time/motivation
<Cheri703> *it's a pretty basic expectation that it'd be there
<knome> maybe
#xubuntu-devel 2013-03-24
<skellat> knome: Are we going to be able to upload the updated documentation to make it in before final beta freeze?
 * pleia2 browses doc updates
 * skellat removes "soft bounce" issues with a Yahoo! Groups mailing list he somehow became owner/moderator of by accident
<abderraouf> hi
<abderraouf> Hello
<abderraouf> There are two proposals to improve Xubuntu
<abderraouf> One:
<abderraouf> Director files property add make each executable files. And not only a particular file type.
<abderraouf> Two:
<abderraouf> Add graphical interface to insert the proxy.
<abderraouf> Greetings from the Linux community Arab.
<knome> skellat, yes, that isn't subject to any freezes we're into
<skellat> Unit193: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5643960/
<Unit193> Don't think anything has changed since last time, but I can take a look over and put in an official stamp on it.  (I know I can email or use the webui.)
<skellat> We might actually get to close out Launchpad Bug #1154220 perhaps
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1154220 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Help not up to date " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1154220
<Unit193> Hmmm... Just noticed another en_GB spelling of USC too.
<Unit193> Unrelated to the offline section, 3 of 3 browsers didn't display the first note correctly in desktop-guide/managing-applications.html
<Unit193> skellat: As per the revision log, you haven't changed anything technically speaking since last check other than the issues seen.
<Unit193> (Simple fix http://pastebin.com/cNwkUGWn)
<Unit193> knome: Off to you.
<skellat> Found it, committing the fix now
<Unit193> It's not technically part of your offline doc, but handy to slip in. :P
<Unit193> skellat: Are you seeing the same alignment issue I am?  https://www.dropbox.com/s/s1xducv36p03p1i/snap2.png and https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8oolbovrvovbyb/snap1.png are two examples.
<skellat> Yep
<skellat> That may be a CSS issue that requires adjustment
<Unit193> We can let knome fix that one.  I got it in xombrero, firefox (aurora, v21), and opera.
<knome> Unit193, is it only that note? eg. not any other note in any other page?
<knome> Unit193, all those should be fixed and pushed now.
<knome> we should clean up https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/
<skellat> Documentation not being up to date seems to be a recurring issue
<knome> unfortunately, yes
<knome> btw, you probably noticed i merged your branchs
<knome> -s
<skellat> Yep
<skellat> Caught that
<skellat> I wonder if, after the clean up, if Launchpad Bug #1064081 is still an issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1064081 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "inconsistent use of Parole Media Player " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1064081
<knome> that's targeted at Q, so probably
<knome> not sure if we'll update the Q package, but we can definitely fix that for R
<knome> though i'm not 100% sure if that is a bug
<skellat> In typical style guides, introducing it first as Parole Media Player and then referring to it the second time and later as Parole is acceptable
<skellat> I'm marking that invalid
<knome> well
<knome> looks like we're referring to "PMP" several times
<knome> then on the next section start to talk about "parole"
<knome> there is definitely inconsistencies
<knome> *are
<knome> the other thing we need to do is reintroduce gimp and gnumeric in the docs
<skellat> I'll mark it as confirmed then
<knome> at least in guide-default-apps.html
<skellat> Need to add that to my TODO list for the week ahead
<skellat> Launchpad Bug #707104 looks like it was just incorrectly closed 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 707104 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "References to "www.xubuntu.org" should not be links" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/707104
<knome> that's for lucid, which is EOL in a few weeks
<skellat> Then that bug needs to just be closed out
<skellat> Launchpad Bug #693699 looks like a non-issue
<knome> yeah. last point release was on feb 16
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 693699 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "version numbers may conflict with each other" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/693699
<skellat> Launchpad Bug #692858 needs to be confirmed as to whether it still even exists as an issue
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 692858 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Two separate Desktop sections within same file" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/692858
<knome> we don't have that page.
<knome> i believe we're fine with that bug
<skellat> So 692858 can be closed?
<knome> i just marked it as wontfix
<skellat> Okay
<knome> i don't completely understand #693699
<knome> i'm thinking it might have something to do with the directory structures
<skellat> #693699 looks to be an old issue with version numbering.  As long as debian/changelog is properly kept up there shouldn't be an issue
<knome> ok
<knome> then i suppose it's invalid
<skellat> That one could go WONTFIX
<knome> or that.
<skellat> Launchpad Bug #690784 probably needs investigation on two separate fronts
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 690784 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Suspend and Hibernate options are not available" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/690784
<knome> i don't think we're covering that in our docs.
<skellat> Let me pull up the browser on LP really quick
<knome> i'm looking at the sources too
<knome> oh wait, we do
<knome> on hardware-devices.html
<knome> i think we're good with that
<knome> desktop-guide/hardware-devices.html#suspending-hibernating
<skellat> If we're good, that bug can be squashed
<knome> i think what we have now is fine
<skellat> "Fix Released" perhaps for that?
<knome> we might want to review that section though, but that's a different bug
<knome> hmh.
<skellat> Launchpad Bug #489285 just looks like something that was never closed out properly
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 489285 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "Move xubuntu-docs translations from Ubuntu to xubuntu-docs project" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489285
<knome> true
<knome> marking as fix released
<knome> not sure if 690784 is fix released
<knome> the bug still exists in maverick (which is EOL though)
<knome> oh well.
<skellat> WONTFIX
<knome> i don't mind as long as it is closed
<knome> looks like the bug is invalid for docs and fix released for xfce4-session (but the bug isn't listed against that)
<knome> marked it as wontfix
<knome> looks better now
<skellat> Yeah
 * skellat disappears so as to get back to writing out his podcasting scripts long-hand for recording later tonight for LISTen: An LISNews.org Program and The Burning Circle
<knome> :)
<knome> hf
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-17
<dougbb> Is this the right place to ask about 14.04 b1 problems?
<ali1234> you want #ubuntu+1
<dougbb> got it, thanks :)
<ali1234> unless it's highly related to xfce
<ali1234> then, maybe
<dougbb> well, both of my questions are, actually :)
<dougbb> 1) xfdesktop --reload no longer cycles the desktop wallpaper
<dougbb> 2) trying to change the "Time And Data Settings" to use ntp, and the attempt to install it is failing "Could not install package  The necessary applications to install the package could not be found"
<ali1234> why xfdesktop --reload cycle the wallpaper?
<dougbb> ali1234: it has always done that if you use an image list .... according to the man page it's still supposed to work, but it doesn't
<ali1234> the way that wallpaper works in xfdesktop has been totally rewritten to support different wallpapers on each virtual screen
<ali1234> so it probably got broken. so report a bug please
<dougbb> yes, I notice that it has been rewritten, and the interface is quite different
<dougbb> Ok, where should I report it? Regular launchpad?
<ali1234> launchpad and also bugs.xfce.org
<ali1234> and then link the upstream report on launchpad
<dougbb> Ok, will do
<ali1234> make sure at least one of the reports has detailed steps how to reproduce
<ali1234> for time and date, i assume that is using the xfce clock plugin?
<dougbb> yeah, no worries, I have done bug reports before :)
<dougbb> ali1234: I think so ... I'm getting to it from the Settings dialog
<ali1234> yeah i see it
<dougbb> Settings -> Time and Date
<ali1234> also report that one... but only on launchpad, as i'm not sure if that's an ubuntu customization or not
<dougbb> ok
<ali1234> looks like it wants to install a package but it doesn't know which one so it just has an empty string
<ali1234> post links to the bug reports here when you're done please
<ali1234> i can't promise the wallpaper thing will get fixed. it might be the feature just disappears from the manpage etc
<dougbb> Ok, give me a couple minutes, still restoring access to some of my stuff after the clean install
<dougbb> ali1234:  :(
<ali1234> the new thing automatically rotates the wallpaper though
<dougbb> I know it's a silly thing, but I like to have my desktop wallpaper rotate at <hour>:00 and <hour>:30 ... I used to do that with a cron job
<dougbb> yeah, the auto rotator starts the timer when you log in
<ali1234> well, there is a way to do that still
<dougbb> it doesn't do it at a specified time
<ali1234> yeah, i understand. but you can still do what you want
<dougbb> ok ... I'd be happy to know how :)
<ali1234> tell xfdesktop to only use one wallpaper, then use xfconf-query to change the wallpaper filename, then issue the reload
<ali1234> this is a more robust way... you can explicitly select any wallpaper you want
<ali1234> also, since we fixed up xfwm, you can use any old-style X11 wallpaper tools and get rid of xfdesktop completely (though you'll lose desktop icons)
<ali1234> stuff like hsetroot
<dougbb> ok, that looks promising ... I'm not seeing how to specify the wallpaper with xfconf-query
<dougbb> heh, I used to use hsetroot when I ran openbox
<dougbb> I might even still have the script I wrote for that
<ali1234> so there's a tool called "settings editor"
<ali1234> which is like windows regedit :)
<dougbb> that was like 5 years ago
<ali1234> in that you'll see a channel called xfce4-desktop
<ali1234> inside that you should see some keys called image-path
<ali1234> xfconf-query is the command line tool for manipulating those settings
<ali1234> there is also a dbus interface if you want to write a python script
<brainwash> dougbb: bug 1270090
<ubottu> bug 1270090 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "time-admin can not install ntp" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270090
<brainwash> already reported, no solution yet
<dougbb> brainwash: I'll look, thanks :)
<ali1234> ah nice one :)
<dougbb> ali1234: I've never done dbus, but I see the image-path setting in the settings editor
<ali1234> xfconf-query -c xfce4-desktop -p /backdrop/screen0/monitor0/image-path -s <path to image>
<bluesabre> knome: we inherited it from mrpouit, who inherited it from rancell
<bluesabre> knome, that is, lightdm gtk+ greeter
<ali1234> you would do something like that. without the -s should print the current value
<ali1234> you might not even need to tell xfdesktop to reload, it should watch the keys for changes
<ali1234> ah so the prblem with ntp is missing gksudo again?
<ali1234> so we need to switch it to pkexec?
<knome> bluesabre, you all suck ;)
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> but I imagine its restricted because its a core app?
<bluesabre> dunno
<knome> nah
<dougbb> ... always nice to be appreciated
<knome> it all depends on LP setup
<bluesabre> not sure if its okay to change it, so I leave it as is
 * knome shrugs
<bluesabre> need me to upload a .po file?
<knome> i can ask translation and documentation people... oh, i'm one of those myself :P
<brainwash> ali1234: maybe try to use the software center if installed
<knome> nah, it just sucks that my translations are suggestions, not real translations
<knome> i guess i need to apply to the finnish translator team
<ali1234> why don't we just ship the ntp package?
<bluesabre> I can approve your translations since you generally don't put garbage in there L)
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> ali1234: we ship ntpdate
<ali1234> ntpdate is no good for setting the system clock though
<brainwash> I doubt that anyone is willing to fix this
<dougbb> ntpdate is fine if we want our time synchronization to be 'about as good as windows'   :)
<ali1234> i'll fix it tomorrow. geez
<brainwash> the user can easily install ntp manually
<brainwash> :D
<ali1234> i'm not using software centre though
<ali1234> synaptic is installed by default right?
<brainwash> no
<ali1234> wat?
<ali1234> why not?
<brainwash> that's the reason that it does not work in the first place
<dougbb> no, that's one of the things I have on my "install my stuff after a clean install" list
<ali1234> no, the reason it doesnt work is gksudo was removed
<brainwash> synaptic does not use gksudo
<dougbb> couldn't it use dpkg to install? or apt-get?
<ali1234> the bug report says it does
<ali1234> on the comment that you wrote...
<brainwash> well, it checks for both I think
<brainwash> it's a ubuntu specific patch
<dougbb> fwiw I can do the "unlock" activity just fine
<brainwash> oh, maybe it calls syncaptic with gksudo and not with pkexec
<dougbb> It pops up the sudo window, I enter my password, and the interface changes
<brainwash> xD
<brainwash> did you install gksudo?
<ali1234> what package is it even in?
<dougbb> It's trying to change the configuration from Manual to "keey synchronized ..." that fails
<dougbb> brainwash: no, I haven't installed anything yet
<brainwash> package "gksu"
<dougbb> .... trying to keep it stock for a bit so that I can more usefully report bugs
<ali1234> no i mean that panel?
<ali1234> gnome-system-tools?
<ali1234> ugh
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> time-admin
<brainwash> so have fun
<ali1234> isn't that like, abaondoned upstream?
<brainwash> yes
<ali1234> balls.
<dougbb> heh
<dougbb> lovely
<brainwash> but patches are still welcome
<brainwash> debian/ubuntu
<dougbb> do they have a replacement? I can certainly install and configure ntpd myself, just trying to do things the "normal" way for the beta
<ali1234> yeah gnome has a replacement... it only works with gnome
<brainwash> there's also mate-system-tools (fork)
<ali1234> okay so the problem here is that g-s-t has a common/gst-package.c which attempts to be a cross platform package installation tool
<ali1234> i can fix this
<dougbb> fwiw, the "unlock" button causes polkit-agent-helper-1 to run ... that's where I'm entering my pass to get the thing unlocked
<ali1234> but someone will have to upload it
<ali1234> yeah it uses policykit to unlock
<ali1234> ten it uses it's own crufty mess of code to install packages with gksudo and synaptic
<ali1234> it should use packagekit for this
<ali1234> it's what it is for
<ali1234> maybe it does try, if it is available
<dougbb> sorry if that was obvious to you, I'm still learning linux internals after a long period of bsd
<ali1234> okay so we don't ship packagekit either
<dougbb> ali1234: gir1.2-packagekitglib-1.0 and libpackagekit-glib2-16:amd64 are installed 
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> well, i'll investigate this properly tomorrow
<dougbb> awesome, thanks!  I'll sign up for the bug
<dougbb> just curious ... wouldn't something like 'apt-get install ntp -y' do the trick?
<ali1234> no
<brainwash> without sudo?
<ali1234> "sudo apt-get install ntp -y" might though
<ali1234> but there would be no where to type your password
<dougbb> yeah ... sorry, the sudo was implied :)
<dougbb> ah, right, no more gksudo :(
<dougbb> d'oh
<ali1234> i don't even understand why it was removed
<ali1234> i mean we even have a factoid telling people to use it
<ali1234> !gksudo
<ubottu> If you need to run graphical applications as root, use Â« gksudo Â», as it will set up the environment more appropriately. Never just use "sudo"! (See http://psychocats.net/ubuntu/graphicalsudo to know why)
<dougbb> yeah, I was just going to ask why
<brainwash> so people can have some fun and configure pkexec? :)
<dougbb> yeah, that totally looks easier :-/
<brainwash> use the software center.. or fall back to terminal?
<ali1234> !pkexec
<ali1234> oh well, it was worth a try
<dougbb> Ok, I just ran this: pkexec --user=root apt-get install ntp -y
<dougbb> and it worked
<dougbb> (ran it from the command line that is)
<ali1234> packagekit is still the best way... it's not tied to debs
<dougbb> If that works in the same security context as the "unlock" button creates then it should be an easy fix
<dougbb> *nod*  I can't speak to that
<ali1234> i should check if they have fixed this in mint
<dougbb> ... although fwiw I like things that use policykit, since it works with my fingerprint reader
<ali1234> mate or xfce edition... they have both right?
<dougbb> (after installing the software for it of course)
<ali1234> packagekit uses policykit
<dougbb> ah, ok
<ali1234> they're all from the same place
<dougbb> are things with the *kit names generally related?
<ali1234> generally yes
<dougbb> Ok, that's good to know, thanks
<ali1234> consolekit is another, but it's dead now
<ali1234> replaced by systemd
<ali1234> systemd will probably swallow up all the other *kit stuff eventually
<ali1234> of course on ubuntu we don't use systemd, so we still have consolekit afaik
<ali1234> for now anyway
<brainwash> no, we have logind
<brainwash> + systemd-shim
<brainwash> =S
<ali1234> doesn't that use consolekit though?
<brainwash> no
<ali1234> oh, okay
<ali1234> hmm... mate-system-tools does not have gst-package.c at all
<ali1234> which is promising
<dougbb> Interesting ... I installed the ntp package, and now the time and date tool is already set to "update automatically"
<ali1234> yes, it checks if it is installed
<brainwash> and running
<ali1234> mate-system-tools just puts up a message telling you to install ntp
<brainwash> it's a service after all
<ali1234> same as g-s-t, but without the "install it" button
<brainwash> only a message... sounds great :D
<ali1234> i guess they;re still stuck on 2.0
<brainwash> or they removed the debian patches
<ali1234> or they never had them to start with
<ali1234> tis is mate, not mint
<brainwash> yea
<dougbb> so the software center now pops up even more dialogs that disappear so fast I can't see them .... nifty
<dougbb> Ok, finally got signed in and subscribed to the time-admin ntp bug :)
<dougbb> is there a way to use dpkg or apt-get to find out what package xfdesktop comes from?
<ali1234> dpkg -S /usr/bin/xfdesktop
<dougbb> awesome!
<knome> bluesabre, "generally" ? :P
<knome> how do you even know...
<knome> you couldn't really know if all the xubuntu docs were "humpty dumpty"
<dougbb> google translate is your friend :)
<brainwash> launchpad failed to build a package for amd64.. did not even provide any build log, so I requested to retry it and it magically worked now
<brainwash> wish I could understand packaging a bit better
<brainwash> why isn't there a daily xfce PPA? because no one cares to maintain one?
<dougbb> d'oh
<dougbb> ali1234: I've reported the wallpaper bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/1293287
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1293287 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "xubuntu 14.04 'xfdesktop --reload' no longer cycles wallpaper image" [Undecided,New]
<dougbb> oops! https://bugzilla.xfce.org/ SSL cert expired today
<dougbb> d'oh, apparently that site requires yet another account to be created :-
<brainwash> you've filed the report against.. gnome-system-tools
<dougbb> errr, no, I changed it to xfdesktop4
<dougbb> d'oh
<dougbb> apparently my change didn't "take"
<dougbb> brainwash: do you have access to fix that? Or how can I do it?
<brainwash> already did
<dougbb> oh, thanks!
<dougbb> that was what came up in the dialog when I started filling in the bug report, but I changed it ... that's why I asked the dpkg question
<brainwash> the xfdesktop maintainer is usually very active
<dougbb> ok
<dougbb> is it worthwhile for me to create an account to file the bug on bugzilla.xfce.org as well? Or wait till I get feedback from the launchpad bug?
<brainwash> but we still need an upstream report, not sure if he checks launchpad regularly
<dougbb> ah, ok
<dougbb> no worries
<dougbb> I just ran into another little bug (leftover from previous versions) ... I changed my icon theme and my mail icon went missing
<dougbb> (in the menu)
<bluesabre> brainwash: some components are auto-imported, but are frozen
<bluesabre> so they cannot be synced from git
<bluesabre> for their vcs-imports
<brainwash> but there are no daily builds
<bluesabre> it might be possible to set more of them up, haven't had a chance
<bluesabre> brainwash: libxfce4ui and parole are here: https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/xfce-4.12-daily
<bluesabre> (daily pkgs)
<bluesabre> the others are messed up, I'll try to get around to fixing them this week
<brainwash> I was able to build xfdesktop (git)
<brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/xfce-git
<brainwash> but doing this felt more like a hack, so it's not done properly I guess
<bluesabre> yeah, poke me throughout the week to fix it
<bluesabre> s/fix it/add packages to my ppa
<brainwash> and also build them for trusty
<bluesabre> that too :)
<brainwash> do i need --enable-maintainer-mode?
<bluesabre> usually helps
<brainwash> ok, I'll test it
<brainwash> I had to make similar changes -> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/libxfce4ui/debian/revision/13
<brainwash> also added "make" after autogen.sh to debian/rules
<brainwash> but that's somewhat wrong
<bluesabre> yeah
<brainwash> without it the build process would stop at some point and complain about missing files
<bluesabre> copy the same arguments used in autogen to dh_auto_configure
<brainwash> I did not use any for autogen
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xfdesktop4/trusty/files/head:/common/
<brainwash> xfdesktop-marshal.h and c were missing
<brainwash> make creates them
<bluesabre> ./autogen.sh --enable-maintainer-mode
<brainwash> to create those files?
<bluesabre> try it
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> ok, what about "dh_shlibdeps --dpkg-shlibdeps-params=--ignore-missing-info" ?
<brainwash> had to add this too
<bluesabre> :\
<brainwash> no a clean solution?
<bluesabre> I'll check it out
<brainwash> the build process stopped at some point, gave me some error message.. so I've added something to make it go away
<bluesabre> probably not ok
<brainwash> I'll try to resolve it properly
<brainwash> btw is there some way to use the git commit message(s) for the debian changelog?
<bluesabre> if its just a daily package, changelog doesn't really matter, but debian changelog does not store that kind of info
<brainwash> it would be great to see something informative when updating the package
<brainwash> other than "auto build"
<bluesabre> auto builds will only display that, part of the recipe magic
<brainwash> ok, that's fine then
<brainwash> I've removed the additional "make" and added "--enable-maintainer-mode"
<brainwash> make[4]: *** No rule to make target `xfdesktop-marshal.c', needed by `libxfdesktop_la-xfdesktop-marshal.lo'.  Stop.
<brainwash> I'll try it on my test system tomorrow, don't feel like abusing launchpad any longer with my failed builds :)
<dougbb> heh
<dougbb> interesting, so if I'm logged into launchpad when something crashes on my system it automatically creates a bug report ... I never knew that
<dougbb> I will put that to good use with some of my bugs that occur frequently :)
<brainwash> dougbb: bug 1293305 needs to be re-assigned also
<ubottu> bug 1293305 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Several icon themes lack an "internet-mail" icon, causing it to go missing from the XFCE menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1293305
<brainwash> xfdesktop4 is the wrong target package
<dougbb> brainwash: yeah, I noticed that ... this time I double-checked that i selected "I don't know" but it selected what was filled in when I started the form anyway
<dougbb> Very annoying
<dougbb> also, there doesn't seem to be a "preview" option, which I looked for to see if I could check for that problem before submitting
<brainwash> so what is the main culprit? the app menu (xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin), the mail reader shortcut (exo-utils) or the affected themes (various packages)
<dougbb> well it's the icon choice in the "Mail Reader" menu item
<bluesabre> I think that's xubuntu-default-settings that installs those items
<dougbb> I'm not sure what package that comes from
<brainwash> bluesabre: exo-utils
<brainwash> /usr/share/applications/exo-mail-reader.desktop
<bluesabre> ah
<bluesabre> indeed
<dougbb> this is why I didn't guess :-/
<brainwash> what would be the replacement for "internet-mail" icon?
<brainwash> one thing we cannot change is to edit all the different icon themes out there
<dougbb> brainwash: yeah, that's why I suggested placing some defaults in /usr/share/pixmaps
<dougbb> if there is a more specific icon in the theme, it will override that
<dougbb> but if there is not, the /usr/share/pixmaps version will get picked up
<dougbb> that makes it a fairly painless solution
<brainwash> the question, how should we provide this additional icon?
<brainwash> I suggest that we should target the app menu instead, it shouldn't hide an entry if the icon is not available
<brainwash> it could display a generic icon or just no icon
<bluesabre> agreed
<bluesabre> xfce4-applications-menu or whisker?
<brainwash> dougbb: whisker menu, right?
<brainwash> http://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/screenshots/whiskermenu.png
<dougbb> It's not totally clear to me which bit is the whisker menu
<dougbb> in a default install it happens on the menu that is in the upper left corner of the screen
<brainwash> take a look at the linked picture
<dougbb> ... and also in the "Applications" menu if I right-click on the desktop (which I think is the same thing)
<dougbb> ah, yes
<dougbb> it is happening in the new 14.04 version, and also in the 13.x menus
<brainwash> also in the right click context menu of the desktop?
<dougbb> yes
<brainwash> the mail reader entry is completely missing?
<brainwash> that's really strange
<dougbb> no, just the icon
<dougbb> the text bit remains
<dougbb> so in your example, the little picture of the envelope with the old "first class" ribbon around it would be gone, but the words "Mail Reader Read your email" would still be there, as well as the spacing where the icon should be
<brainwash> ah ok
<dougbb> I changed my icon theme to GNOME which did it for me in 14.04
<dougbb> there are several others that I usually install which also have the same problem
<dougbb> ok, bugzilla.xfce.org bug created for the xfdesktop --reload issue:  https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10754
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10754 in General "'xfdesktop --reload' no longer cycles wallpaper image" [Normal,New]
<dougbb> ... this time I managed to associate it with the right package  :)
<brainwash> the usual answer would be to "use an icon theme which provides the necessary icons"
<dougbb> brainwash: yes, but that's a silly answer, since several of the icon themes that ship by default have this problem :)
<dougbb> not to mention, the fix is painless .... just put default icons in /usr/share/pixmaps for everything in the menu
<brainwash> I'm just not sure, how we could ship the a generic mail icon
<dougbb> if you use the svg images you'll be all set
<brainwash> but which package does provide it?
<dougbb> (since obviously they'll scale to whatever context they are used)
<dougbb> that I can't comment on intelligently ... the how and where of packages I am still trying to learn
<dougbb> although I would think that at least for this issue exo-utils might be the right answer
<brainwash> right, this can cause some headache
<brainwash> yes, exo-utils
<dougbb> FWIW this internet-mail icon is the only one I've ever seen go missing
<brainwash> and an upstream report might be also required
<dougbb> so the problem may actually be limited to that icon, but I certainly haven't done a thorough test to see if every menu icon shows up with every icon theme :)
<brainwash> sadly the priority to fix this is very low
<dougbb> yeah, I can understand that ... but I agree that it's sad, because this is exactly the kind of thing that makes linux look "unpolished" to novice users
<brainwash> novice users usually don't change the icon theme
<dougbb> I know how to fix this problem, so to me it's a minor annoyance ... but to users trying it out for the first time it's a WTF
<brainwash> :D
<dougbb> heh, yeah, keep telling yourself that :)
<dougbb> number one question I get from people when I tell them I'm running Linux on my business laptop, "OOOooo, can I see what it looks like?"
<brainwash> but feel free to add some additional information to your report
<brainwash> like which icon could be used exactly
<dougbb> I thought I did?
<dougbb> oh, you mean like exactly which symlink to create?
<brainwash> from the elementary theme?
<dougbb> well I like the elementary theme, but it seems not to be installed by default on 14.04
<dougbb> there are some "elementary-<foo>" versions though
<brainwash> basically a step-by-step explanation
<brainwash> which icon, where to install it, what symlinks
<dougbb> ok
<brainwash> and details about the icon file itself
<brainwash> which license
<brainwash> and at this point of the dev cycle I'm not even sure, if the change will land in trusty
<dougbb> yeah, understood ... I should have reported it long ago, but I'm trying to make up for lost time here :)
<OvenWerk1> brainwash: speaking of menu icons... I have seen some that show in the right click menu but not the top corner menu (in studio but with xfce) They used to what has changed in T?
<brainwash> it's always great to have users who want to improve the distribution they use
<brainwash> OvenWerk1: some? can you name any?
<dougbb> well I try ... sometimes I get really busy so some of the trivial stuff falls by the wayside
<OvenWerk1> Off the top of my head meterbridge from jack. A lot of them are audio apps
<dougbb> I used to do software development for a living, and I spent a long time volunteering for FreeBSD, so I always appreciated it when users sent useful bug reports
<OvenWerk1> A lot of them seem to be pixmaps
<OvenWerk1> I am booted in 13.10 on this machine
<OvenWerk1> everything works in 13.10
<brainwash> dougbb: that's awesome, open source is great, but sometimes there is just not enough man power to push forward and change things :)
<dougbb> exactly
<OvenWerk1> brainwash: I think almost all of them are in our own metas, that is creative sw.
<brainwash> OvenWerk1: I assume that you are talking about the recent regression, launchers which specify an icon + extension (example.png) are not displayed properly
<OvenWerk1> AH, yes that makes sense
<OvenWerk1> The few I looked at the desktop file for were like that
<brainwash> xubuntu has replaced the default xfce app menu with whisker menu (alternative app menu)
<OvenWerk1> brainwash: is that something that will be fixed? or should the apps be usiing no extension?
<brainwash> so we are somewhat not affected by this directly
<brainwash> it will be fixed soon-ish
<brainwash> well, I hope
<OvenWerk1> OK
<brainwash> OvenWerk1: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10709
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10709 in Applications Menu "Some icons not being displayed after upgrade to xfce4-panel-4.11.0" [Normal,New]
<OvenWerk1> I wonder if it is worth overlaying a blank icon for the error one. So it doesn't look broken :)
<brainwash> nah, it should easily fixable, but someone has to look into it
<OvenWerk1> Beyond me for sure. I can do some c stuff, but tk is about a gui as I get
<brainwash> the menu from the desktop right click menu works fine, so we already have a working solution
<brainwash> just need to "port" it
<OvenWerk1> Yup
<brainwash> it's written in C
<OvenWerk1> Ya, it would be, but wrapping my head around gtk is more than I am up to right now.
<brainwash> you don't even touch gtk
<OvenWerk1> I managed to do a pygtk thing to put an icon in systray, but that is it.
<brainwash> it's about loading the image file into a buffer
<OvenWerk1> I thought you would have to use some toolkit.... ok.
<brainwash> so passing the correct path seems to be broken in some cases
<brainwash> no, just edit the .c file
<OvenWerk1> Or it is lookiing for path/file.ext.* and not finding it
<brainwash> you might need to read about the api
<OvenWerk1> Very much
<brainwash> possible, I did not investigate yet
<brainwash> but it's something which should be fixed within a small amount of time
<dougbb> brainwash I added the extra details you asked for .... the ones I could answer anyway :)
<brainwash> dougbb: thanks
<dougbb> glad to help
<dougbb> ... and thanks to you and ali1234 for all of your help as well :)
<ochosi> morning everyone
<ochosi> knome: thanks, added a brief conclusion
<knome> np
<ochosi> we could theoretically add before/after screenshots
<ochosi> to avoid the current "wall of text" impression
<ochosi> knome: do you think we could get a new light-locker feature-release into 14.04?
<ochosi> (given that it would happen soon)
<ochosi> or: what's your opinion on that
<ochosi> the feature i'm referring to is "late locking"
<ochosi> this means that instead of going to the lockscreen directly when the "lock session" signal is caught (i.e. when someone actively locks the session or the timer for that is expired), it only goes to the greeter/unlock screen when the user wakes the machine up
<knome> i fail to see the difference
<knome> please explain further ;)
<knome> i'm more of less AFK for 5-15mins
<ochosi> example: 1) listening to music, no activity for 30mins (screensaver timeout) 2) screen blanks
<ochosi> without late locking: 3) you get forwarded to the greeter, music stops.
<ochosi> with late locking: 3) screen blanks 4) you touch the mouse -> you get forwarded to the greeter, music stop.s
<brainwash> ochosi: can you please comment on bug 1291914
<ubottu> bug 1291914 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Whisker menu "hides" About Xfce and Contribute to Xubuntu" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291914
<brainwash> "contribute to xubuntu" will be dropped if I remember correctly
<ochosi> yup, done
<brainwash> that was fast, thanks :)
<knome> ochosi, hmm, right
<knome> ochosi, so music stops only when you are *shown* the unlock window?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> that's the main difference
<ochosi> but, it has to be mentioned that also when you *accidentally* touch the mouse, your music won't keep playing :)
<ochosi> there's nothing we can do about that one
<knome> of course
<brainwash> same applies to some applications which access the graphics card
<ochosi> (apart from not using timed-locking)
<knome> is the feature ready?
<ochosi> it is in a development release (1.3.0) at the moment
<knome> is it tested (at all)?
<ochosi> we're waiting for translations to release 1.4.0
<ochosi> yeah, it is tested, but i can't say how much
<knome> okay...
<ochosi> i mean, i tested it a few times with nvidia/nouveau drivers
<knome> is there any likely regressions?
<ochosi> cavalier tested intel
<ochosi> and i think someone tested radeon
<ochosi> not that i can think of
<knome> okay
<ochosi> (the feature has been in a separate branch for a while already, so actually we tested it for a while)
<knome> okay
<ochosi> the changes that this feature would require:
<knome> let me give 5 mins to think about it
<ochosi> 1) update light-locker to 1.4.0
<ochosi> 2) update lightdm-gtk-greeter not to initially blank the screen
<ochosi> 3) update light-locker-settings to reflect the additional setting
<ochosi> (also, 1.4.0 brings an option to deactivate lock-on-suspend)
<ochosi> (that one could be backported to 1.2.1, but there wouldn't be translations for it)
<brainwash> knome: can you please mark bug 1033174 as "wishlist"?
<ubottu> bug 1033174 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Improvement in the default keyboard shortcuts (lock screen and shutdown menu)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033174
<knome> done
<brainwash> thanks
<knome> ochosi, i think we could try to get the new release in, but please get it prepared ASAP so we will have it in time for b2 (or preferably, in dailies before b2)
<ochosi> knome: ok, i'll also talk to bluesabre about it though
<ochosi> since we'd have to do some work on this together
<knome> do that, but please do it today
<knome> why is the pdf export so slow?
<ochosi> btw, as an alternative, we could try to bring in the lock-on-suspend option
<knome> umh,
<knome> that's a new feature as well, right?
<ochosi> not really
<knome> aha...
<ochosi> currently it locks on suspend, *always*
<ochosi> it's just adding an option for that
<ochosi> so not a very invasive change
<brainwash> but an important one :)
<knome> any reason we woldn't want to do both?
<ochosi> knome: not really, apart from teh fact that late locking needs more changes
<knome> so which would you consider a better "patch" ?
<knome> i just changed the IRC support page to a full-width page
<knome> allows more scrollback
<xubuntu254> much better!
<brainwash> knome: can you please mark bug 407976 as "won't fix"? it's an old issue that we cannot verify anymore
<ubottu> bug 407976 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "xfce4-session crashed with SIGSEGV in malloc()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407976
<knome> what about marking it incomplete
<knome> and undecided
<brainwash> mmh, maybe
<knome> can you also follow up with the upstream bug?
<brainwash> but the report targets ubuntu 8.04 :D
<brainwash> this is ancient stuff
<knome> yeah, i wonder what the general guideline is
<brainwash> me too
<knome> mark bugs with EOL releases won't fix or something else
 * knome digs in the bugsquad wiki
<brainwash> the bug description also mentions Xfapplet which is gone now
<brainwash> removed from the repo since at least 12.04
<knome> Some bugs are never responded to by the submitter (also called "original poster", or "OP"). These bugs will be automatically expired by Launchpad in 60 days, counted from the day it was set incomplete. There is no need to act on them (and, actually, changing the bug will restart the expiry period). Note that this applies for the Ubuntu project (i.e., those bug tasks that have "(Ubuntu)" in their name). Other projects may, or may not, have automa
<knome> ...which makes me think that setting to "incomplete" is the right way :)
<brainwash> so want to kill it slowly? :)
<knome> well, i guess that's the only way to mark it "expired"
<brainwash> I'm fine with it
<knome> i mean, theoretically "won't fix" is a bad status
<knome> because it *would* fit our plans to fix that bug if we had it :)
<brainwash> we did not manage to fix it in time, or maybe we did... stupid outdated reports :D
 * knome shrugs
<brainwash> there are still a bunch of older reports still open, cleaning them up really takes some time
<brainwash> some are still valid, others are not easy to verify anymore
<knome> brainwash, see bug 407976
<ubottu> bug 407976 in xfce4-session "xfce4-session crashed with SIGSEGV in malloc()" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407976
<knome> brainwash, asked #ubuntu-bugs, and they said the usual way is to mark it as invalid with a comment like one i left
<brainwash> great, thanks for asking in -bugs and changing the status accordingly 
<knome> np.
<knome> you really should get those bug permissions
<knome> 16:46  hggdh: knome: correction -- set to incomplete, and ask the OP to check on a newer release
<knome> 16:47  hggdh: knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Release_has_reached_EOL
<brainwash> yea :D
<knome> slickymasterWork, actually, let's take it here
<knome> here's my notes:
<slickymasterWork> ok
<knome> * refresh first slide
<knome> * rethink "personalize" slide title
<knome> * rethink "personalize" slide screenshot
<knome> * simon works on the "customize" slide
<knome> * artwork in the "help" slide?
<knome> * artwork in the "thanks" slide?
<knome> and that's it.
<slickymasterWork> besides the first two items, I have to say that the mugshot in the personalize slide is really to big
<elfy> ha ha ha ha 
<elfy> oooh yea 
<slickymasterWork> I like the artwork on the help slide, I wouldn't touch it
<knome> i would rather not do non 1:1 shots...
<knome> there is no artwork on the help slide D:
<elfy> slickymasterWork: I said the same about mugshot
<slickymasterWork> elfy: ;)
<elfy> it needs cutting like the other one ;)
<elfy> *just saying*
<slickymasterWork> those ballons with the xub log and the words are on the Thanks slide?
<knome> i actually think we should rework the whiskermenu shot.
<knome> slickymasterWork, you said "help"
<slickymasterWork> I'm still branching the last rev, so I haven't yet saw how it is now
<slickymasterWork> my mistake, :(
<slickymasterWork> I meant the Thnaks slide
<knome> slickymasterWork, remember you can always 'bzr pull' if you already have any version of the branch
<slickymasterWork> I really like those images
<slickymasterWork> I haven't
<elfy> knome: oh - is that how you do it ... 
<slickymasterWork> I'm at work, not at my laptop
<knome> elfy, haha! :)
<knome> elfy, yeah... 'bzr pull' always gets the latest revision
<elfy> no laughing at the bzr hater ... :p
<slickymasterWork> almost done
 * elfy ends up with bunches deleted :)
<knome> elfy, well that's a general VCS thing
<knome> elfy, branch/clone once, then keep pulling newer revisions
<knome> elfy, the command in git would be 'git pull' as well ;)
<elfy> aah cool - thanks knome :)
<knome> and iirc, it's also 'hg pull' in mercurial...
<slickymasterWork> lousy connectivity 
<slickymasterWork> ok done. Going to run it
<slickymasterWork> knome: knome, I don't see how to add any artwork in the help slide
<knome> slickymasterWork, exactly...
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> unless some text gets wiped
<knome> that's why i wondered why you like the artwork on that slide
<knome> or how
<slickymasterWork> no, I was really referring to the thanks one
<knome> yeah
<knome> :)
<slickymasterWork> even though taking in consideration yuor aged objection, I think they suit very well there
<slickymasterWork> the first slide, you said refreshing it
<slickymasterWork> you mean other the removing the we need you help part (which is already done)?
<slickymasterWork> s/the/then
<knome> i was thinking of reviewing the text as well
<knome> let me open the slideshow as well
 * knome has been focusing on the "when we were kids" discussion on offtopic :P
<elfy> :)
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I've been cross reading it :)
<knome> slickymasterWork, so actually, the first slide text is now okay
<slickymasterWork> that's my opinion, also
<knome> i was really "meh" with the "this *exciting* piece of software..."
<knome> really, that crappy, buggy software? ;)
<slickymasterWork> but jjfrv8 mentioned that he didn't like the 'much' on the second block of text
<knome> i don't like that either
<knome> and we should look at making that "if" -paragraph a bubble
<slickymasterWork> and it can be misleading
<knome> like the live one in the help slide
<slickymasterWork> yes
<knome> argh, i can't work with the guitar wall on the speakers
<knome> (explosions in the sky: it's natural to be afraid, a 13min+ epoch)
<elfy> knome: the 'much' thing - wouldn't the installed desktop look exactly the same as the live one?
<knome> except some icons on the desktop and minor things like that
<slickymasterWork> I saw those guys in last Primavera sound festival here in Porto
<elfy> After installation, the desktop will look similar to how it does now.
<slickymasterWork> that's my point elfy, and why I think it may be misleading
<elfy> After installation, the desktop will look similar to how it does now.
<elfy> After installation, the desktop will look blue.
<knome> lol
<slickymasterWork> The live support could be changed into something like real-time support or sth
<elfy> it will look similar 
<slickymasterWork> knome: what are you disliking in the whisker shot? 
<knome> nothing
<knome> but if we want to make the shots similar, i think we should rather edit that than the others
<slickymasterWork> so we're just speaking of moving it's placement in the slide?
<elfy> knome: I don't feel as strongly about the theme config screenies - the one behind kind of shows that it's not an afterthought
<knome> elfy, huh?
<knome> how can one feel so lost
<knome> :|
<elfy> you might be talking about a different thing :)
<knome> i'm pretty sure what you say is making sense
<elfy> oh good 
<knome> don't expect me to understand any of it though
<elfy> I won't
<elfy> I'll just be completely blunt about it and say the mugshot one completely wrong :)
<slickymasterWork> knome: "Personalize your computer" -> "Shape your computer to who you are"?
<knome> uh
<elfy> that sounds wrong 
<slickymasterWork> elfy: +1
<knome> pull
<elfy> push
<knome> i did :P
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<elfy> After installation bit looks wrong
<elfy> similar to how it does now rather than similar to as it does now
<elfy> After installing, the desktop will look similar to how it does now
<elfy> perhaps is better
<elfy> knome slickymasterWork - so what's wrong with Personalize your computer ?
<elfy> other than the z ... ;)
<knome> :P
<knome> brb, need to take care of #x
<slickymasterWork> the mugshot shot is too big knome 
<elfy> slickymasterWork: he knows - I spent an hour on Saturday talking about it :p
<knome> well then take a smaller one... :P
<knome> max. 410 pixels
<knome> if you want it to fit in the space
<slickymasterWork> give me a minute and I'll send to you?
<knome> sure. i'll be herding cats at #x anyway
<slickymasterWork> knome: mugshot GUI isn't resizable, so I'll have to do it in gimp. I'm going for a 75% size
<knome> well,
<knome> bleh.
<knome> any other ideas for that slide?
<knome> take a screenshot of the login window with a user image set?
<slickymasterWork> a stock image, you mean?
<knome> well...
<knome> maybe not
<knome> the stock images are BAD
<slickymasterWork> with the xub logo as image user?
<knome> i don't know
<slickymasterWork> I'll try it
<knome> we could just take the screenshot and ask ochosi for any image to put in there
<knome> we can replace the image easily enough anyway
<knome> pleia2, we should probably list the projects that the docs team is working in the "get involved" area
<knome> like, also mention the slideshow
<pleia2> knome: like, the lp links?
<knome> possibly
<pleia2> or maybe write something up on the wiki
<pleia2> and link to that
<knome> oh meh
<pleia2> hah
<knome> it's just one more link we want
<knome> so please let's not create a wikipage for that
<knome> In addition to the Xubuntu system documentation, ...
<knome> that would be a good place to mention the slideshow
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> we also should talk less about the community help wiki
<knome> if at all
<knome> and/or move it to somewhere later
<knome> we're talking about screencasts as well
<knome> that's a bit specific
<knome> maybe we should reword it to say "other kind of documentation projects are welcome as well"
<knome> also, while we're at it, should we lists sites like askubuntu in the "support" list?
<knome> or do we want to keep it stritcly with IRC + ML + LP support requests
<knome> soo... the slideshow :P
<slickymasterWork> I'm having problems with my VM box
<slickymasterWork> give me a few more minutes
<elfy> what are we after getting here?
<knome> did you pull the latest revision?
<elfy> me or slickymasterWork ?
<knome> i pushed changes to the first slide
<knome> both
<slickymasterWork> I've pulled it, and I'm ok with the changes you made
<elfy> I'm up to date
<elfy> and slide one needs to be sorted 
<knome> :D
<elfy> you want me to do that and push it?
<knome> sure, but you probably can't push to the main branch...
<elfy> I could the other day I thought
<elfy> if not someone else will have to 
<elfy> oh no - I can't of course - just mine
<knome> heh :)
<elfy> though it still needs to be sorted - it's not spanglish at the moment even - it's stranglish :)
<knome> lol
<knome> paste me the new text
<slickymasterWork> I'm not being able to get a screenshot of the login greeter
<elfy> After the installation, the desktop will look similar to how it does now.
<elfy> knome: ok - I'll grab a screenshot then - max size 410 was it ?
<knome> ah, done
<knome> slickymasterWork, booo! :)
<knome> elfy, yeah, max width 410, but i guess that's not a problem with the greeter login
<knome> just make the username "Xubuntu User"
<knome> you can leave the profile image as is
<knome> we can replace it manually
<elfy> ok
<elfy> how do you run lightdm in testmode?
<knome> testmode?
<knome> no idea...
<elfy> with zenity or something I thought 
<knome> ochosi would know
<knome> but of course he's not around when you need him
 * elfy has it worked out now
<knome> that ochosi is never available when you need him, or the screenshot?
<elfy> test mode and the screenshot shortly :)
<knome> cool
<elfy> back shortly
<brainwash> lightdm --test-mode
<slickymasterWork> knome: check your email
<knome> heh, who's first ;)
<knome> hmm
<knome> is it in spam :P
<brainwash> with all the talk about screenshots I start to wonder.. do we already have a new default wallpaper?
<knome> ah no, there it is
<knome> brainwash, no
<brainwash> :(
<brainwash> well, at least we can already use the community ones :)
<elfy> knome: mailed you what I could get - will need tidying
<knome> brainwash, we *will* have a new wallpaper though.
<brainwash> hooray
<knome> elfy, i got it sorted, from slickymaster ;)
<elfy> ok 
<elfy> jfi - install xserver-xephyr then lightdm --test-mode
<slickymasterWork> knome, elfy. "Personalize your computer" -> "You in your computer"?
<knome> uhu
<knome> :(
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I know, too lame
<elfy> and I keep getting odd times with lightdm-gtk-greeter sitting here - causing me pain
<elfy> I'd have said something like Make It Yours - except the next slide does similar
<slickymasterWork> yes elfy, it's sort of ties up that next slide
<elfy> or 
<elfy> leave the title as it is and change the wording in the text to something like Make the greeter yours
<elfy> but tbh I really don't see what's wrong with Personalise your computer
<elfy> knome: did you change the stranglish yet? 
<knome> yeah
<knome> not in the branch though
<slickymasterWork> have you pushed it already knome ?
<elfy> just checking :)
<knome> not yet
<slickymasterWork> well, maybe it's better just to leave it as it is
<slickymasterWork> the tittle, I mean
<elfy> personally I don't see an issue with it 
<slickymasterWork> lol, I getting crazy
<slickymasterWork> s/I/I'm
<knome> hehe
<slickymasterWork> every is crashing here,, from my VM box to SQL Server, oracle 10g
<knome> heh
<knome> i just pushed a new revision 615
<knome> i'm getting grumpy, #x and too little food
<elfy> that looks better for the greeter rather than the mugshot one
<knome> yep, i think that slide is ready now
<elfy> yep
<elfy> on slide one - I wonder if the text bubble would look better slightly higher
<slickymasterWork> let me check
<slickymasterWork> knome: I think elfy is right, regarding the bubble in the first slide
<knome> i don't know
<knome> i'm not sure about the whole bubble
<knome> i think it was better as is...
<slickymasterWork> also, are we keeping the live designation in the help slide?
<knome> ochosi, ping ping, slideshow content
<knome> slickymasterWork, mmh, we can change that to real time
<knome> or real-time?
<slickymasterWork> YES, REAL-TIME
<slickymasterWork> sorry, my VM is completely cuckoo
<knome> hehe, np
<knome> ok, done
<knome> so what do you think, should we just revert the bubble to no bubble on the first slide?
<elfy> I'd say so
<knome> yeah
<slickymasterWork> +1 on that knome 
<knome> ok, do we want to extend the slide?
<elfy> extend? 
<slickymasterWork> which knome, the first?
<ochosi> knome: sorry, won't get to that before very late or tomorrow
<knome> the first slide
<knome> extend as in have more text
<knome> ochosi, do you plan to show "menu paths" ?
<slickymasterWork> sorry guys, have to take my kid to his tennis class
<slickymasterWork> will be back after dinner
<knome> slickymasterWork, that's fine, ttyl
<knome> have fun :)
<slickymasterWork> will be the all time thinking about the car repair budget :P
<knome> awwh :/
<slickymasterWork> ->
<elfy> knome: is there any need to add more text - if the slide says what we want - then it's enough
<knome> dunno
<knome> was thinkinga bout
<knome> i don't know
<knome> it's probably okay :P
<elfy> I'm all for giving people information - but I'd not thing putting stuff in 'just because' is enough reason :)
<knome> yep
<knome> agreed
<knome> anything else that's borked?
<elfy> the text + the images says all if you ask me
<knome> :)
<elfy> I'll look now again
<elfy> not sure if it's just running it from the script, but here when it changes to slide2 - the bubble stays still while it's changing
<elfy> comma in line 1 of slide 2 looks wrong "On the desktop, you will see icons that can be used to access some of the most common places on your system."
<elfy> On the desktop you will see icons that can be used to access some of the most common places on your system.
<knome> "bubble stays"?
<elfy> slide 1? I say no
<elfy> looked better as text only there
<knome> ah
<knome> so you mean
<knome> right
<knome> i haven't pushed the change to remove the bubble
<knome> i gues...
<knome> ok, slide 1&2 fixed as you said
<knome> but not in the main branch!!
<elfy> slide 2 - "You can also add and remove extra panels using this dialog. " 
<elfy> sorry - slide 2 as well :)
<knome> done
<elfy> because you can't remove panel 0 
<knome> (not in main branch...)
<elfy> did you change 'live' to 'real time' in support slide?
<knome> real-time
<elfy> k
<knome> would "real time" be better?
<knome> pleia2, US english expert?
<elfy> not really - real-time works 
<elfy> same slide - comma after The Official Documentation
<pleia2> real-time is good
<elfy> I think
<elfy> no - scrap that :p
<knome> hehe
<elfy> unless you put another one after Xubuntu 
<knome> either one works for me
<knome> whatever makes the text more legible
<elfy> I think "The Official Documentation, that covers many of the most common areas and questions about Xubuntu, is shipped with every Xubuntu release.
<knome> pleia2, since you are at it, you should mention that download links need updating with each point release
<pleia2> knome: that's the getxubuntu update
<knome> + === Update on release ===
<knome> not only release, also point release
<pleia2> ooh, point release, right
<knome> that's something too easy to overlook
<pleia2> knome: I think searching by categories is broken
<knome> aha?
<knome> example?
<pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/category/faq/
<knome> how is it broken?
<pleia2> shows one post, no way to find others
<knome> mhm
<knome> yeah, i guess we should change that
<knome> boooooooriiiiiiing
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> haha
<knome> that's really the most boring thing ever to do
<knome> work on wordpress archive pages
<knome> i never seem to get them "right"
<knome> which is why i'm hesitant to touch anything on my own blog...
<knome> pleia2, another request (from elfy) was to make the blog entries show on the front page... thoughts on that?
<pleia2> so I thought I'd like to have them not show anymore, but now I feel sad about it
<pleia2> at least having a title (perhaps stub) would be nice
<knome> where?
<elfy> my issue's really about old stuff being undiscoverable
<knome> what pleia2 reported would fix it
<elfy> ok - then I'll be happy with that :)
<jhenke> hi everybody
<knome> hello
<elfy> hi
<ochosi> knome: just pulled the latest rev of the slideshow
<ochosi> not bad
<jhenke> I've been following the xubuntu-devel ml for some time now, it seems you are a bit short of people contributing?
<ochosi> especially the first slide is much better
<ochosi> jhenke: very true
<Noskcaj> ochosi, Do we have an oem install slideshow this time too? Should just need a symlink
<ochosi> knome: i was wondering, can we make the slideshow a bit more "interactive", e.g. add some hover-effects?
<ochosi> Noskcaj: not that i know of, is there an OEM version of xubuntu?
<knome> Noskcaj, the OEM installer didn't work for xubuntu for 13.10, i don't know why it would work for 14.04 as no progress is done on that
<knome> ochosi, propose and i can look at it
<Noskcaj> knome, ok.
<ochosi> knome: e.g. in the panel slide, when hovering the bubbles, the text-bubble could be highlighted as well as the correct part of the panel
<Noskcaj> ochosi, There's on option during install to make an oem install
<ochosi> knome: well... you're the king of web css around here ;)
<Noskcaj> jhenke, Is there anything in particular you'd like to help with?
<knome> ochosi, huhu... :)
<knome> yeah, that's doable, i guess...
<knome> but it might involve some js
<jhenke> development (maybe packing), I am currently near the end of my computer science master
<jhenke> in general I prefer more backend work ^^
<ochosi> mm, developers are very welcome
<ochosi> xfce is mostly written in c
<ochosi> we have a few python apps too
<ochosi> well, and you need to get to know the toolkit (gtk2 and gtk3) in case you're not familiar with it yet
<jhenke> so far most of the my experience is in Java and C++, toolkits I have used Qt in Java, but well in CS you always have to learn new stuff every day
<knome> ochosi, i deliver the panel stuff you mentioned today, and you deliver the customize text today. deal? ;)
<Noskcaj> There's a few Xfce apps written in C++ if you want to try and provide bugfixes for those. And if you want to help with packaging, i can show you how
<ochosi> knome: meh, ok, i'll try my best :)
<jhenke> with Packaing the most problems for me are still make and autotools
<knome> Noskcaj, i'll fix that for you: if you want to help with packaging, there are mentors available
<Noskcaj> yeah
<ochosi> specifically there is only whiskermenu that is written in c++ afaik
<ochosi> and that's only a panel-plugin
<ochosi> so i guess with xfce there's no way around c really
<jhenke> I know, but C isn't really hard, I just prefer OO style programming so far
<ochosi> (plugins are also written in vala, python or c++, but everything related to the core is c)
<jhenke> ochosi in my bachelor we worked with C on embedded system, the kind with 4 KiB RAM ;)
<ochosi> heh good, we want our apps to be lean ;)
<jhenke> as long as I does not have to be register based programming :D
<ochosi> no worries
<ochosi> not *that* lean
<ochosi> jhenke: anyway, best way to start is usually find a bug that annoys you or "scratch your itch"
<ochosi> and don't hesitate to ask
<ochosi> if people can help you, they're usually happy to
<jhenke> yeah, I have been nagging the ubuntu kernel team since january to fix Haper-V related bugs...
<knome> jhenke, welcome :)
<jhenke> Haper-V = Hyper-V
<jhenke> is there any page in launchpad that lists all source apckages in the xubuntu seed?
<jhenke> so I have a starting point on which packages I should focus?
<knome> we're currently fixing the bugs for 14.04
<knome> so the best place to start is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
<ochosi> yeah, there is a seeds file
<jhenke> ochosi yeah at some point I found that too, I was more looking like an overview page that links to the source package sites in launchpad, but I will start with the blueprint then
<ochosi> yeah, we dont have an overview like that
<ochosi> we try to work very close to upstream xfce
<ochosi> so bugfixes should ideally (also) go upstream
<jhenke> clear, no two opnions about that
<knome> ochosi, oi, you are going to be under pressure!
<knome> ochosi, i have the JS implementation almost ready!
<jhenke> hmm somebody forgot to renew the tls certificate for bugzilla.xfce.org
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> that certificate thing is quite new :>
<jhenke> it ran our yesterday
<jhenke> in a perfect world somebody would renew it a week before that time
<ochosi> jhenke: xfce is short on contributors too...
<brainwash> even more than we are :)
<jhenke> hmm my time is currently not that extensive, but how could I proceed there? 
<ochosi> depends on what you wanna do
<jhenke> well I could do small things that are need on the code, I do not know what is currently needed?
<brainwash> thunar needs some love, tends to segfault quite a lot
<ochosi> jhenke: pick your favorite/most-used component and then look for bugreports :>
<ochosi> you can also choose the most-whined-about bugs
<jhenke> brainwash yrah, every time you want to unmount a usb driver in 13.10
<ochosi> but generally, going with what your passionate about is a reasonable choice, cause then you have enough energy to go through with it
<brainwash> right, this one seems to bug many people
<ochosi> s/your/you're/
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, but e.g. it doesn't bug *me* enough to debug it ;)
<ochosi> (i rather write small features for parole that i need)
<ochosi> knome: can i push or are you about to?
<brainwash> I'm currently trying to fight the huge amount of launchpad reports =S
<knome> i'm about to, but feel free to (i'll merge...)
<knome> i'm not changing content really
<knome> just other files...
<brainwash> jhenke: but https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs is a good start, if you want to help improving the forthcoming Xubuntu release
<jhenke> has somebody looked into #1291019 already?
<knome> bug 1291019
<ubottu> bug 1291019 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "xflock4 still uses xscreensaver by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1291019
<Noskcaj> jhenke, No ones fixing it AFAIK, but it's a very easy fix, just modify the patch for light-locker
<knome> ochosi, you around?
<ochosi> knome: yes
<knome> hmm, diverged
<knome> wait a sec.
<jhenke> okay, I guess the code is in some bazaar branch on launpad?
<elfy> jhenke: nice to see you in here talking about doing things :)
<jhenke> elfy thanks
<knome> ochosi, ok, pull revision 617
<knome> and watch in awe ;)
<knome> elfy, ^ slideshow
<elfy> already on it :p
<knome> nice
<knome> changes @ desktop/panel slide
<ochosi> knome: one sec, wanna finish my part first ;)
<knome> hover over the boxes
<elfy> horrible red 
<elfy> :p
<knome> i know
<knome> but at least you notice it in this drafting stage
<elfy> now - when we decide what colour the pink should be - the line should be the same - ealry warning :D
<ochosi> meh, have to draw a 16px icon for gtk-theme-config... :/
<elfy> concepts great though 
<knome> ochosi, HAA HAA
<knome> ochosi, put this on while you draw it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LM0CZZ9Uw8
<elfy> is the theme config in the seed yet - or is it still the ppa one?
<Noskcaj> jhenke, yes, the code is in lp:ubuntu/PACKAGE
<jhenke> I have been avoid bzw mostly so far, any major difference to git I need ot be aware of?
<Noskcaj> it's easier to use ;)
<knome> jhenke, the basic commands work in a very similar way
<knome> jhenke, bzr branch instead of git clone
<Noskcaj> just branch, add, commit, push.
<Noskcaj> remember to de-apply the patch with quilt pop before you work on it
<ochosi> elfy: it should be in the seed
<ochosi> knome: do i even have push-rights to this branch?
<knome> no.
<ochosi> great :D
<ochosi> so i need to do a MR?
<knome> push to your own and do a merge proposal
<knome> yep.
<ochosi> meeeeh :)
<knome> hah
<knome> or send me the html file in email
<ochosi> knome: MR sent
<knome> thanks
<knome> i will look at it in 5 at most
<knome> want to edit the pink color in the shots?
<ochosi> actually i was wondering whether you wanna highlight the bubbles in a less subtle way
<ochosi> (and anyhow, the elegance of your implementation exceeded my expectations)
<knome> i wondering about that too...
<knome> heh, thanks
<knome> now we need to come up with a good color
<knome> :)
<ochosi> #ff00ff is the best ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> rgba( 255, 0, 255, 0.7 )?
<knome> that's better than the current...
<knome> you can poke around with that
<knome> penultimate line in link/base.css
<knome> ochosi, a few comments:
<knome> desktop background vs desktop wallpaper?
<knome> "Theme configuration" vs theme configuration tool?
<knome> hah, we've just hit the UIFe deadline
<knome> literally
<knome> i merged that commit with my last merge...
<jhenke> UIFe?
<knome> UI Freeze exception
<knome> meaning we will have to file some "paperwork" to get to land new stuff
<jhenke> hmm update-manager also seems a bit volatile in +1 versions at times
<elfy> so we've got a half done slideshow :p
<knome> elfy, no...
<knome> elfy, everything is actually uploaded
<knome> BARELY
<knome> wait, no
<knome> everything except simon's slide :)
<knome> hehe
<knome> well...
<knome> that isn't worse than poking the right people
<elfy> jhenke: I tend to use update mangler to check it works a few times - then either terminal or synaptic - which is in my list of things to install
<elfy> knome: I pulled it - no changes :)
<knome> yeah
<ochosi> knome: i'm fine with desktop "wallpaper", i just didn't want to overuse the word
<knome> yeah, just wondering
<knome> i'm fine with either as well.
<ochosi> knome: i'm fine with calling it a theme configuration tool
<knome> yeah, easier to translate as well..
<ochosi> i guess it's still clear from the path what is meant
<knome> yep
<ochosi> wanna make those changes directly?
<knome> i'll do that
<ochosi> or do i have to update my MR ;)
<jhenke> elfy i also prefer synaptic for package management, but update manager automatically downloads the changelogs, saves a few clicks, I am lazy 
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> there were some ppl who wanted to give synaptic a new UI
<knome> ochosi, #ef8aef
<ochosi> it was generally a good idea, but, frankly, 1) it didn't look very easy-to-use and 2) it was never implemented
<ochosi> knome: mm, looks nice
<knome> want to update the screenshots? :|
<knome> the 16px theme conf icon is cool!
<ochosi> knome: which ones, the ones of settingsman and gtk-theme-config?
<knome> yep
<knome> with the color i pasted you
<ochosi> ah, hm, ok
<ochosi> one sec, gotta fix something else first
<knome> yep
<knome> then we need to think about a few more (minor) thinhs:
<knome> * color for the panel highlight
<knome> * help slide artwork?
<knome> * thanks slide artwork?
<knome> * whiskermenu shot?
<knome> oh! and
<knome> * greeter menu profile image
<jhenke> by the way are there any plans to define a default keyboard shortcut to open the whisker menu?
<jhenke> with the search feature that can really boost productivity
<ochosi> jhenke: yeah, actually i wanted to add super+space
<jhenke> super+space is imho a bad idea
<ochosi> why that?
<jhenke> on some platforms that is used to switch the keyboard (input) mode
<jhenke> especially in asia
<ochosi> right, but e.g. in ubuntu that opens the dash
<jhenke> to switch between latin mode and the local script
<ochosi> i think in osx that also opens a launcher
<ochosi> or file-search/app-execution thingy
<elfy> making it the same as ubuntu dash sound's sensible to me
<jhenke> I currently defined super+less by hand as it is also possible to hit those keys at the same time
<brainwash> ctrl + esc?
<jhenke> I think it should defintielly start with the super key
<ochosi> i guess we want something that ppl discover easily
<ochosi> yeah, most of our kb-shortcuts involve the super key
<jhenke> ideally would be just the super key with not additional
<brainwash> don't we use ctrl+esc for the app menu?
<brainwash> the default one
<jhenke> brainwash I think so too
<ochosi> jhenke: yeah, feel free to code support for holding a key for >1sec into xfce4-settings ;)
<ochosi> actually that shortcut brings up the keyboard-shortcut overlay in ubuntu
<ochosi> (same on chrome os)
<ochosi> bbiab
<brainwash> and what about ctrl+alt+l for screen locking?
<brainwash> if we really want to imitate unity
<brainwash> :=
<jhenke> I think it would help to use the same shortcuts as windows where possible, to make it easier for people coming from windows to xubuntu
<jhenke> honestly i also tried super+L at the first time to lock the screen ....
<brainwash> bug 1033174
<ubottu> bug 1033174 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Improvement in the default keyboard shortcuts (lock screen and shutdown menu)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1033174
<jhenke> okay everybody, getting late here, see you
<knome> nightyt
<brainwash> good night
<elfy> cya jhenke 
<elfy> night all 
<knome> nighty elfy
<ochosi> night jhenke 
<dkessel> yeah good night :) time to go
<Unit193> Wow, I come in and everyone runs off.
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> i'll stay a while longer Unit193 ;)
<knome> me too
<Unit193> Also, yeah, meta+l makes more sense to me.
<ochosi> knome: screenshot #1: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-03-17-225434.php
<Unit193> And not for the "Windows" factor, just plain makes sense.  Also was pointed out if you use the current at a TTY, surprise!
<ochosi> knome: #2 http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-03-17-225536.php
<ochosi> Unit193: i wouldn't mind if someone put together of meaningful kb shortcuts
<ochosi> it's just yet another discussion late in the cycle :/
<knome> ochosi, looks good
<Unit193> ochosi: What's wrong with planning for Unicorn?
<knome> pleia2, ^ your favorite theme color
<ochosi> knome: cool, you could do the panel-highlight in the green you used for the website headers/sections
<knome> ochosi, hmmh, i made it white already
<knome> that didn't look bad
<knome> but i'll check that.
<ochosi> Unit193: nothing, but i just assume that ppl usually assume that everyone will land in the upcoming release
<ochosi> i'd totally +1 it if you'd set up a barebone page for default kb-shortcuts as a T+1 spec
<knome> +1
<ochosi> since micahg still hasnt merged my x-d-s merge-requests, we could still add some shortcuts
<knome> yyyyyyeah, looks good.
<ochosi> micahg: you got the hint/reminder, right? ;)
<mikodo_> hey guys, will we be able to run Xorg commands in Xubuntu 14.10 and beyond? I always use Xcalib for inverse, with my old eyes. If I cannot with Xubuntu in the future, I will have to move to move on.
<ochosi> no idea why you wouldn't
<ochosi> it's not like anyone is moving to wayland or mir anytime too soon
<mikodo_> ochosi, will Mir after Xmir expires in 14.10 support X?
<mikodo_> Wayland as I understand it, uses X code, so I expect it support Xcalib commands
<ochosi> there are no such plans for 14.10 yet
<ochosi> neither wayland nor mir are really realistic
<ochosi> and X won't go away so soon
<ochosi> so no worries
<mikodo_> ochosi, must have changed, as last I looked, there was to be no Xmir in 14.10, but thanks for your encouraging thoughts, about things not changing too drastically anytime soon
<ochosi> mikodo_: that's almost not the motto of xubuntu
<ochosi> "things not changing too drastically anytime soon"
<ochosi> ;)
<mikodo_> ^_^
<brainwash> and don't forget.. 14.04 is a LTS release
<brainwash> so you can use it for some years
<mikodo_> Thanks guys!
<ochosi> no problem
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-18
<jjfrv8> knome, a reminder that you were going to investigate http://imagebin.org/299466
<jjfrv8> once that's settled, I can push the remaining 8 or so chapters that depend on it
<knome> you can push them, that's related to entities
<knome> so we don't need to change the markup
<knome> only the entities file
<jjfrv8> knome, MP is pushed
<knome> MP or branch? :)
<knome> i saw the email really quickly, but it went via a mail filter somewhere deep in the bin
<knome> hmm, wait
<knome> didn't i approve and merge this already?
<knome> i did the other MP manually since it would have reintroduced stuff that was already fixed
<knome> besides, you have push rights to the main branch yourself, i trust you to push only sane things
<Unit193> But not me. :D
<knome> well that's why you don't have the push rights
 * knome hides
<Unit193> With that last one, I'm done on docs right?
<knome> nevar
<knome> :)
<knome> you have entered a room. the door behind you is locked from outside. what do you do?
<knome> you stood still for a time too long, and one of the doc team people noticed you with no task. you are assigned a new doc team task. what do you do?
<knome> :P
<Unit193> re-sync'd mine with master.
<knome> jjfrv8, Unit193: you might want to look at lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/xubuntu-uife
<Unit193> (Should actually have been done properly too, pushed as linguas2.)
<knome> didn't see any MP. hard to see diff's.
<Unit193> You were going to look before I went for the merge, make sure I'm in the right ballpark.
<knome> well,
<knome> it's easier to look at a MP and diff
<knome> but i can look at the branch as is
<knome> will try to get to that tomorrow, since doc freeze soon
<Unit193> Err, whoops then.
 * Unit193 should have set jjfrv8 as reviewer again. :P
<knome> heh
<Unit193> Actually, line 103 would be of interest to him.
<knome> === modified file 'scripts/translate.sh'
<knome> seriously? :)
<knome> i guess you mean lines 114-115
<Unit193> Well, that it's modified is of interest of course.
<Unit193> So technically the coreutils dep isn't precisely correct, but it basically is.
<knome> heh
<Unit193> If you use the linguas file, it isn't, but it falls back to a method that uses basename -s, so I left the dep in there.  What do you think?
<knome> the dependency is okay
<Unit193> Want anymore reviewers?
<knome> i'll tell you tomorrow
<knome> or add myself
<Unit193> Feel free to ask any questions.  It'd be nice to move the entire translation things into the translate script, but I was pretty sure you didn't want that. :/
<knome> let's get the translations into trusty, then we can improve
<Unit193> Sure, just means the clean target is a tad slower.
<knome> yaeh, but first time we have translations
 * Unit193 hopes for a full Russian translation yet.
<knome> mmh, would be good to get several languages in
<knome> i'm off for now
<knome> see you later
<Unit193> Tschau!
<elfy> knome: slideshow looks ok - the red looks better :p - all done now? 
<ochosi> knome, bluesabre: just talked to seb128 and Laney about the FFe for light-locker1.4.0, they both said it should be fine
<ochosi> knome, bluesabre: also, cavalier wants to wait with 1.4.0 release till the weekend so we get more translations. i suggest we prep the changes in light-locker-settings and think what we wanna have as default setting
<ochosi> bbiab
<knome> elfy, red? :P
<knome> elfy, no, two minor changes yet.
<knome> hey ochosi 
<ochosi> hey knome 
<ochosi> just sent you an updated tahr-ball
<knome> aha
<bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, sounds good
<ochosi> bluesabre: so i guess let's start testing light-locker 1.3.0 and work on l-l-s again...
<bluesabre> yeah
<brainwash> what did change?
<ochosi> option 1: late-locking (BOOL)
<ochosi> option 2: lock-on-suspend (BOOL)
<brainwash> oh, great
<ochosi> if (late-locking) { greeter-screensaver-timeout = 0; }
<ochosi> else { greeter-screensaver-timeout = $default_value; }
<brainwash> makes sense :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: ^
<brainwash> will the changes land in beta2?
<ochosi> i'm really happy retrospectively speaking that we introduced that timeout as an option in the greeter already
<ochosi> that way we don't have to touch the greeter at all for this FFe
<bluesabre> brainwash: ideally
<brainwash> how do you pass the new greeter timeout?
<ochosi> brainwash: modify /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf
<ochosi> that's the only way
<ochosi> at least right now
<brainwash> multi user systems... :(
<ochosi> so yeah, before you say it, multiple users can override each other
<brainwash> :P
<ochosi> but that's *always* the case
<ochosi> even now
<ochosi> per-user greeter settings just don't make sense at all
<brainwash> only people with root privileges can change it anyway
<ochosi> ypu
<ochosi> yup
<slickymasterWork> knome: is rev 625 of the ubiquity slideshow going to be our final? I'm asking so I know if I can start working on its translation?
<knome> don't start yet
<knome> it's not final
<slickymasterWork> do you still think that somethings could be improved?
<knome> we are missing one slide
<knome> etc...
<knome> i need to work on the artwork
<slickymasterWork> missing one slide where?
<knome> in the slideshow
<knome> ;)
<slickymasterWork> loare we going to add one more slide?
<slickymasterWork> s/loare/are
<ochosi> humm, new whiskermenu bugfix release
<knome> slickymasterWork, just HOLD. :)
<slickymasterWork> knome: alrightie
<knome> slickymasterWork, i will get a UIFe bug filed today, get it merged and hopefully uploaded soon
<bluesabre> ochosi: has it been packaged already (whisker)?
<ochosi> nope, i don't think so
<ochosi> that's why i mentioned it
<ochosi> just read the release-mail on xfce users ml
<bluesabre> ah
<knome> heh
<bluesabre> ok, I'll get to that tonight if Noskcaj doesn't beat me to it
<knome> we got handed a package of cashew-peanut-papaya-raisin mix
<knome> mission accomplished:
<knome> a bowl of raisins left
<bluesabre> that would be handy
<bluesabre> I bought raisin bran
<knome> how's that so satisfying
<bluesabre> pretty sure there are 5 raisins in the box
<knome> to eat all but the raisins
<knome> aha, should send you more
<knome> :P
<bluesabre> so, I will work on packaging for shimmer-themes, xflock, and potentially whisker tonight
<knome> bluesabre, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/trusty_slideshow/slide_per.png
<knome> bluesabre, opinion?
<bluesabre> use a tahr or a more adorable kitty?
<bluesabre> or, grumpy cat
<bluesabre> other than that, looks good to me
<knome> hah
<knome> watch the words
<knome> slickymasterWork, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/trusty_slideshow/slide_per.png
<bluesabre> s/good/incredible/
<knome> hah
<knome> no, the "more adorable"
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> somebody in this room owns that cat
<slickymasterWork> I was already seeing it
<slickymasterWork> why a cat?!
<bluesabre> heh
<knome> why not?
<knome> isn't it a good pun ;)
<brainwash> mmh, the slide mentions libreoffice, but we don't ship it by default
<Unit193> ochosi: Jackson knows about it, for some reason told me about it, and 1.3.1 is up.
<ochosi> Unit193: hm, you mean whisker?
<slickymasterWork> brainwash: the reference to LibreOffice relates to Mugshot
<knome> bluesabre, your fault!
<Unit193> 1.3.2 is out, what I said is outdated now.
<knome> i guess we can drop the mention just as well
<knome> it's mentioned in the docs anyway
<brainwash> slickymasterWork: I know that
<knome> in a better way
<knome> "*if* you have libreoffice..."
<ochosi> Unit193: yup
<brainwash> but it might give the user the impression that libreoffice is installed by default
<brainwash> knome: ok
<knome> brainwash, bluesabre: damn you two, can either change their nick, same length and same initial is no good
<knome> :P
<Unit193> Tell me about it.. :P
<ochosi> +1
<ochosi> s/bluesabre/bluesabretooth/
<ochosi> s/brainwash/brainwashed/
<knome> lol
<ochosi> well, that was easy, eh?
<knome> you can just s/bluesabre/bs/ ;)=
<Unit193> FWIW, I read 'bluesabre' as blues bre, like what a minion in Despicable Me says.
<knome> papple!
<Unit193> Banana!
<knome> thanks... now i have to use some time to watch clips on youtube
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<jjfrv8> knome, looks like we got our signals crossed with the recent MPs. When I pulled 163, I saw that some screensaver references were stil in there...
<knome> mhm
<jjfrv8> so I assumed you had not merged my latest version. That's why I just copied the two chapters with those references over again this morning
<jjfrv8> so I'm hoping everything is right now, but it looks like there's one paragraph in the current MP that's the same as the xubuntu-docs branch
<jjfrv8> bbl
<jhenke> hi everybody
<knome> hey
<elfy> afternoon
<elfy> really sorry about this - but reported a thunar bug ;)
<elfy> bug 1294209
<ubottu> bug 1294209 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Deleting files from desktop freezes machine" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294209
<pleia2> ouch
<elfy> hi pleia2 
<pleia2> hi there elfy 
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<jhenke> hi guys
<elfy> hi jhenke 
<ochosi> hey
<brainwash> elfy: thanks for yet another thunar/xfdesktop bug :P
<elfy> I do my best ;)
<ochosi> there's a new xfdesktop release btw
<ochosi> hope we can get that in, it has lotsa nice bugfixes
 * elfy really ought to subscribe to some of these xfce m/lists ... 
<Unit193> I check commits every few days.
<Unit193> Sooooooo, not sure if it's been fixed in the latest Trusty kernel, but graphics work in liquorix. :P
<jhenke> how was the name of the package the include all the packaing/devel tools again?
<jhenke> I've forgot the name and I am on a fresh VM image
<knome> build-essential?
<Unit193> It's what I was thinking, but packaging?
<jhenke> yes that was it
<jhenke> just forgot the name
<jhenke> sorry guys, just experienced a segfault in xfwm4, bug 1294264
<ubottu> bug 1294264 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "xfwm4 crashed with SIGSEGV in _int_malloc()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294264
<ochosi> interesting
<ochosi> lots of segfaults all over the place lately
<jhenke> short question shall I add a changelog entry after I updated a patch or is that the taks of the person accpeting the pull request?
<ochosi> jhenke: yeah, changelog is good generally
<ochosi> but not mandatory
<jhenke> okay I have fixed the problem in my private branch, to whom shall I send the merge request for xfce4-session?
<ochosi> jhenke: can you quickly point me to it?
<ochosi> generally speaking, this would be the routine:
<ochosi> 1) check whether there's a bugreport upstream
<ochosi> 2) if not, submit one
<ochosi> 2) if so, check it
<ochosi> 3) add the patch there and a comment
<ochosi> 4) wait patiently until the/a maintainer picks it up
<ochosi> if it's a fix we want in xubuntu and that wont go into a bugfix release soon enough, we can add it to xubuntu
<ochosi> for that to happen, simply file a merge request for xfce4-session
<jhenke> I just modified the patch that was already in xubuntu
<jhenke> ochosi https://code.launchpad.net/~jhe/ubuntu/trusty/xfce4-session/light-locker/+merge/211605
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> there were a few discussions around that
<ochosi> we knew about this simple patch :)
<jhenke> I just reordered the locking so light locker is always used first if available
<jhenke> shouldn't cause any regressions
<ochosi> well it shouldnt *now* because light-locker now checks whether it's running (with the 1.2.1 update)
<ochosi> before that update it was actually not entirely unproblematic
<ochosi> hey Noskcaj 
<Noskcaj> morning ochosi 
<ochosi> just a quick heads up
<ochosi> new bugfix releases for xfdesktop and whiskermenu today
<ochosi> if you have time, that'd be great
<Noskcaj> yep, packaging now
<ochosi> bluesabre said he could take care of whisker, so xfdesktop would have higher priority
<ochosi> but if you wanna do both, i guess he won't be mad at you :p
<Noskcaj> I'll do both in debian, i'm guessing he meant straight to ubuntu
<ochosi> possibly, i dunno
<ochosi> but debian sounds good
<Noskcaj> also, tthe indicator update finally hit trusty
<ochosi> which one?
<Noskcaj> 2.3.2
<ochosi> ah great
<ochosi> the theming fixes we did )
<ochosi> ah, no, the prop dialog
<ochosi> theming fixes was 2.3.1
<jhenke> hi Noskcaj
<Noskcaj> hey jhenke 
<ochosi> have a good one everyone
<elfy> bug 1290575
<ubottu> bug 1290575 in LightDM GTK+ Greeter "lightdm-gtk-greeter does not exit cleanly when logging in" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290575
<elfy> is this one fixed or not - got it affecting 2 things - one's confirmed the other fixed
<elfy> if whoever thinks it is fixed then it isn't
<brainwash> elfy: apparently not fixed
<brainwash> the greeter was patched to exit properly and free allocated memory, but there seems to be another problem
<brainwash> a problem which I cannot reproduce
<brainwash> it happened once so far and I simply blamed xmir for breaking it
<elfy> lol 
<elfy> well I don't have that so we can't blame it :p
<brainwash> right, but you have some log files we would like to see I guess :D
<elfy> probably
<elfy> but let's not get into that guessing game stuff again - you tell me what you want and I'll provide it
<brainwash> basically the stuff in /var/log/lightdm
<elfy> next time it happens I'll add it to the bug report
<brainwash> thanks, you can skip the .old files, because these are the log files created by the previous lightdm or greeter start
<brainwash> and the files containing a number greater than 0
<elfy> yep
<elfy> just the 2 lightdm.log and x-0.log
<brainwash> and x-0-greeter
<elfy> yep - didn't see that
<elfy> ta
<jhenke> good night
<elfy> night jhenke 
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1293305
<ubottu> bug 1293305 in exo (Ubuntu) "Several icon themes lack an "internet-mail" icon, causing it to go missing from the XFCE menu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1293305
<brainwash> any thoughts?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-19
<ochosi> brainwash: will respond to the bugreport
<ochosi> there you go
<brainwash> ochosi: thanks
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1285440
<ubottu> bug 1285440 in xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin (Ubuntu) "xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin "Switch Users" functionality" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1285440
<brainwash> could we add the working command "dm-tool switch-to-greeter" to our custom whisker menu config file?
<brainwash> xubuntu-default-settings
<brainwash> I know, the shortcut/icon is hidden by default
<bluesabre> that's an elaborate bug report
<bluesabre> 1. we should definitely add that command to the greeter config so that it works if enabled
<bluesabre> 2. not really sure its necessary to know about virtual consoles, light-locker/lightdm are handling all that for you
<bluesabre> but I do wonder (care to experiment?) if light-locker creates a new VT every time ( 8 9 10 ), or if new VTs go away after successful login
<bluesabre> ooh, but I do have an opinion about the internet-mail icon
<bluesabre> oh wait
<bluesabre> nvm
<bluesabre> :)
 * bluesabre hides
<brainwash> ?!
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> adding the command to the greeter config?
<bluesabre> yeah, whisker comfig
<bluesabre> I give up on typing
<bluesabre> >.<
<brainwash> ok, that makes sense :)
<brainwash> and what about the second part about virtual consoles?
<brainwash> lightdm re-uses existing greeter instances
<bluesabre> from the bug report, there seems to be a concern that multiple virtual consoles are being spawned
<brainwash> oh, looks like I skipped that part, don't really like so much detail in a bug report
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> bluesabre: btw I was able to build xfdesktop via daily build recipe
<bluesabre> excellent, congrats :)
<brainwash> thanks :D
<brainwash> and adding git commit messages to debian/changelog is easy, but the build bot is not able to yet
<brainwash> ali1234: bug 1208681
<ubottu> bug 1208681 in thunar (Ubuntu) "PCManFM bookmarks are not being respected by other applications due to GTK 3.0" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208681
<brainwash> fixed now too, right?
<bluesabre> micahg: this one is easy, simple debdiff (but all packaging is included as well)
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1294459
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1294459 in shimmer-themes (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] shimmer-themes-1.7.2" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre> in case you're interested and have 2 minutes :)
<bluesabre> ochosi ^
<elfy> morning dkessel 
<dkessel> good morning elfy
<AussieDownUnder> Is there going to be a way to get rid of the xscreensaver from the system settings? I currently have light-locker & even though I uninstalled xscreensaver there's an icon left for it in there.
<ochosi> AussieDownUnder: can you show me a screenshot of that item in the settings manager? i.e. are you sure it's not light-locker-settings? (they use the same icon)
<AussieDownUnder> It says screensaver & has the same icon as light-locker. If I click on it I get "Unable to start "xscreensaver-demo", it's the same icon I used to adjust xscreensaver before I uninstalled it, if that makes sense? I'll get you some screens.
<AussieDownUnder> And I just pushed a hotkey 3 times to take screen shots & my screen went permanently black, could only see the screen seelection cross hairs & couldn't get back to my screen, tried locking the pc & re logging back in but didn't fix it
<ochosi> AussieDownUnder: did you uninstall xscreensaver by hand? i guess there is another package, e.g. xscreensaver-settings
<ochosi> with the crosshair you can drag a selection for the screenshot...
<AussieDownUnder> ochosi, yeah I know, I pushed the shortcut to it 3 times & each time the screen went darker, I couldn't manage to get out of it.
<ochosi> sure you can
<ochosi> just drag with the mouse and let go
<AussieDownUnder> Yeah I tried
<ochosi> anyway, just don't hit the print key so often ;)
<AussieDownUnder> ochosi, dw I already learnt my lesson
<AussieDownUnder> <a href="http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-190314-194336.php">
<AussieDownUnder>   <img src="http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/screenshot-190314-194336.php" />
<AussieDownUnder> </a>
<AussieDownUnder> Whoops
<AussieDownUnder> ochosi, http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-190314-194336.php][img]http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/screenshot-190314-194336.php
<AussieDownUnder> Sorry, still an IRC & ubuntu noob. Does this work? http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-190314-194336.php
<ochosi> you definitely need more practice with the screenshooter ;D
<ochosi> sure, works fine
<ochosi> yeah, check whether xscreensaver-settings or something alike is still installed
<ochosi> you can also just run "sudo apt-get remove xscreensaver*"
<AussieDownUnder> http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-190314-195406.php
<AussieDownUnder> It's already been uninstalled in a terminal in order to get light-locker functioning?
<ochosi> no, there seem to be some leftovers
<ochosi> you haven't uninstalled everything of xscreensaver *obviously*
<AussieDownUnder> How could I find out properly? Any file to look at that would tell wha'ts installed?
<ochosi> bluesabre: 2 minutes for what exactly? the bugreport looks good from my side! thanks!
<brainwash> ochosi: so, should we add "dm-tool switch-to-greeter" to the whisker menu config?
<ochosi> brainwash: did you read my comment #1?
<ochosi> (if so, you know my reply)
<brainwash> oh
<brainwash> did not get notified about the comment
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> switch-to-greeter triggers light-locker
<brainwash> it's not about activating the switch-user button, I only want to change the command
<ochosi> right, that we could do
<ochosi> definitely better to put something there that works than keep gdmflexi...
<brainwash> great, not sure if an upstream change would make it in time for trusty
<brainwash> exactly
<ochosi> i think the security concerns are valid enough to hide it by default
<ochosi> (apart from the visual clutter it adds)
<brainwash> yes, and locking the screen also allows the a user switch
<ochosi> exactly
<ochosi> i'll update the whisker-MR accordingly...
<ochosi> feel free to reply that we discussed it and concluded this
<ochosi> (on the bugreport i mean
<ochosi> )
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> the strange gtk-greeter bug seems to affect vm installations
<brainwash> but maybe most people just use a vm to test xubuntu 14.04
<ochosi> i've had it in a normal install
<ochosi> so it's not restricted to VMs unfortunately
<brainwash> I don't like bugs which I cannot reproduce easily :)
<ochosi> yeah, sucks quite a bit, that bug
<brainwash> btw is anyone working on improving the non-list-mode lock mode?
<brainwash> or is a discussion needed first?
<ochosi> not right now
<ochosi> the focus is on fixing bugs in xubuntu first
<ochosi> and this one doesn't really concern me for xubuntu
<ochosi> (and it's not even a bug, as stated previously, but an enhancement)
<brainwash> indeed
<knome> jjfrv8, merged your branch and fixed the visual issue we were having.
<ochosi> micahg: pleeeease, merge the xubuntu-default-settings stuff!
<ochosi> micahg: or if you can't, just let me know and i'll get sponsors to help us with this. but i think we *want* those in B2
<knome> yes
<knome> please
<knome> ochosi, you will be pleased with this: bug 1294619
<ubottu> bug 1294619 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Update the Ubiquity slideshow (Xubuntu)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294619
<knome> and poked stgraber as promised, he'll look at it and most probably just upload as well...
<ochosi> weeee
<ochosi> nice knome 
<ochosi> also got another bug in indicator-sound fixed for us today \o/
<ochosi> (well, also for unity)
<knome> good
<slickymasterWork> so knome, the slideshow is finished, right?
<knome> yes, and the translation templates are updated
<knome> BUT
<knome> it's not in the main branch yet, as the UIFe is not approved
<slickymasterWork> and that's a big but :)
 * slickymasterWork moans
<knome> well,
<knome> it should be up later today
<knome> ochosi, can you open me this a bit:
<knome> ochosi, "Lock the screen on suspend/resume"
<knome> so,
<slickymasterWork> I'll check, later on, to see if I can start, or not, working on its translation
<knome> a free translation like "Lock the screen on suspend" would work?
<knome> weren't too many strings that changed
<knome> ochosi, because almost-literally translating, the string would be "Lukitse nÃ¤yttÃ¶ keskeytystilaan siirtyessÃ¤/siitÃ¤ palautuessa"
<knome> which is... a long string.
<knome> the free translation would be "Lukitse nÃ¤yttÃ¶ keskeytystilassa"
<knome> slickymasterWork, follow the bug! :)
<knome> bug 1294619
<ubottu> bug 1294619 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Update the Ubiquity slideshow (Xubuntu)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294619
<knome> that *should* give good indication of progress
<knome> and i can just poke you if i'm told it's up
<knome> don't hold your breath, stgraber lives across the pond ;)
<knome> ochosi, actually, i just did the shorted translation
<knome> ochosi, your strings are up :P
<slickymasterWork> knome: Affecting me and raised to Confirmed status
<knome> slickymasterWork, oh please no!
<knome> i don't think that's how those bugs are tracked...
<knome> i put it back to new
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I'm seeing now my wrong :P
<knome> that's okay
<knome> fortunately we can touch those :P
<knome> hmpf, should eat and shower
<knome> which order? :P
<knome> probably the other
<knome> bbl
<slickymasterWork> I just saw you saying follow the bug and thought it was to marl it
<slickymasterWork> s/marl/mark
<slickymasterWork> bbl ->
<ochosi> knome: thanks a bunch!
<ochosi> knome: also, could you re-approve my MR for the whiskermenu settings to x-d-s?
<ochosi> and i guess the last UIFe is the wallpaper, right?
<knome> what MR? :)
<knome> and yes, wallpaper should be the last UIFe
<ochosi> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/whiskermenu_defaults/+merge/211714
<starrats> good morning everyone!
<starrats>  might have to file another bug report on 14.04 my updates went okay but the upgrades reverted back to last week when I had some  â zequence
<starrats>                           | issues concerning some packages missing                    
<knome> ochosi, done
<ochosi> ty
<starrats> b4 getting off the laptop tonight  I'll run another update/upgrade to see if it happens again.  
<jjfrv8> knome, pulled your docs branch changes and did a quick scan of the pages. Just found two minor issues...
<jjfrv8> one is just a wording change, the other is in Appendix A. menulibre's friendly name is listed as 'Main Menu' instead of 'Menu Editor'
<jjfrv8> knome, is it safe for me to make those corrections and push them directly to xubuntu-docs?
<jhenke> hi
<knome> jjfrv8, yep.
<knome> jhenke, hello
<jjfrv8> knome, ok, damage done :)
<knome> ;)
<knome> so, apparently we need somebody to do docs uploads
<elfy> afternoon all
<knome> hey elfy 
<elfy> I'm free till April Fools Day :)
<knome> congrats
<knome> i have a request
<knome> learn packaging, apply and get upload rights for xubuntu-docs today and upload the package tomorrow. okay?
<elfy> I'm on it ... 
<elfy> can't do it - got called into work 
<elfy> :p
<knome> oh boo!
<knome> elfy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes
<elfy> no-one to do stuff again I guess
<knome> elfy, i just split the testing-related stuff out from the "releasing" table, and put them to their own table
<knome> please review and see if we are missing anything
<elfy> ok
<knome> or the schedule is completely off ;)
<elfy> what is smoketest images?
<elfy> is that what jenkins reports?
<knome> either jenkins or manual smoketesting
<knome> it's mostly a leftover from the previous QA lead, haven't touched that schedule too much...
<knome> feel free to edit as appropriate
<knome> or in other words, to make it mirror reality :P
<elfy> well we certainly don't do anything specific about smoketests
<knome> yeah, so fix the documentation ;)
<knome> i mean,
<knome> this page is here to tell us what we need to do
<knome> this page is here for us to document what we do
<elfy> yep
<elfy> knome: that wiki is more or less what we do - 7 days - I tend to warn people it's in it's way, 5 days - smoketesting is Jenkins - we don't do anything specific, 3 days we test, release day we mark
<knome> elfy, ok, good. few suggestions: maybe specify the smoketesting is jenkins; and maybe specify we just don't mark the images ready, but actually think about it mark them ready only if they are ready
<elfy> I'm specifically speficing things now :)
<elfy> done
<knome> hehe
<m3741> hey everyone, maybe this is a better place to ask. i'm looking for the live-build auto/config script that is used to build xubuntu saucy. anyone have a url per chance?
<ali1234> m3741: what, all of it?
<m3741> ali1234: i'd happily take the whole thing
<m3741> well, all the live-build scripts. all the auto scripts, everything under package-lists, etc...
<brainwash> micahg: please take a look at bug 1279470
<ubottu> bug 1279470 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "xubuntu, lubuntu images missing secure boot packages" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279470
<Unit193> Thought bluesabre looked at it and worked up a merge proposal.
<brainwash> yes, but still pending
<GreatAnubis> hi, anyone alive?
<Unit193> Howdy, Anubis.
<elfy> mostly
<GreatAnubis> hi
<brainwash> yea
<GreatAnubis> I'm searching for a solution of an issue I'm having atm with 14 beta 1
<knome> (14.04, there is no "14")
<GreatAnubis> I've found some 'solutions' which doesn't work for me
<GreatAnubis> I have a problem with wifi
<GreatAnubis> it's not stable speed is going down from time to time
<GreatAnubis> yea 14.04
<knome> i'd ask #ubuntu+1
<knome> and specify your wifi adapter and driver you are using
<GreatAnubis> hmm... OK.. I'll go there... I was using Mint till today and I had no such problems at all... today I decided to install smth new 
<knome> good luck
<GreatAnubis> everything seems to be fine - even Nvidia works fine
<knome> that's good to hear :)
<GreatAnubis> but wifi issue drives me crazy
<knome> hardware issues are always... hardware issues :)
<GreatAnubis> http://pl.tinypic.com/r/1441f89/8
<GreatAnubis> it looks like this
<knome> yeah, but as i said, i'd ask in #ubuntu+1
<GreatAnubis> OK.. I'll 
<GreatAnubis> cheers
<knome> while this isn't technically an awfully wrong place to ask, you'll have better luck there
<GreatAnubis> :) OK thanks
<GreatAnubis> cya
<knome> since it sounds like a "generic" hardware issue and all, nothing xubuntu-specific
<knome> see you, and again, good luck
<GreatAnubis> understood
<brainwash> knome: bug 378803
<ubottu> bug 378803 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "Session tab of Session and Startup is unclear." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/378803
<brainwash> is this really a bug in the ubuntu package or in the online documentation?
<brainwash> -> http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/preferences#session
<knome> === System Information ===
<knome> Xubuntu 9.04.
<brainwash> so? is it fixed now?
<knome> i don't know
<brainwash> the report is still open
<knome> i wonder if the interface was different then
<knome> but it sounds like it's either a usability bug in the setting dialog, or the xfce (not xubuntu) documentation
<brainwash> the online documentation?
<knome> xfce documentation generally... but practically, that
<elfy> I'd look - but the Help button is broken for that ... 
<brainwash> maybe someone could take a look and add 2-3 sentences to explain the session tab a bit more detailed
<brainwash> so we can close this report finally :D
<knome> the online docs only have screenshots
<knome> i think the "fix" to this bug was brief descriptions on table title hover
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1289411
<ubottu> bug 1289411 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Help button of Desktop Settings UI doesn't open online help" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1289411
<jhenke> cu
<elfy> brainwash: thanks - saw the description of that - but just read comment #4
<brainwash> knome: so we leave the report untouched? I have no idea how to deal with documentation related tasks
<knome> brainwash, to me, it doesn't look like a doc-doc task
<knome> it looks like something that should be forwarded upstream as a wishlist
<brainwash> ok
<knome> and it also looks like a somewhat trivial bugfix
<starrats> good evening everyone
<starrats> might have spoke to soon or ?  but al my updates/upgrades went just fine a few minutes ago, 
<brainwash> can anyone else confirm bug 1282227 ?
<ubottu> bug 1282227 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop-settings dialog not immediately displaying all available wallpapers" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282227
<brainwash> you might need to reopen the settings window several times and/or switch between folders containing background pictures
<ochosi> brainwash: works for me with xfdesktop 4.11.4
<ochosi> but yeah, it used to not work
<brainwash> so it's magically fixed now? :D
<brainwash> I did not test the latest release yet
<ochosi> do that then :)
<ochosi> anyhoo, the help button in xfdesktop still doesn't work because xfce4-settings needs a patch
<ochosi> it's still in bugzilla
<ochosi> so setting that bug you linked to before to "fix released" isn't ideal
<brainwash> but I was only few commits behind the last time I've encountered it
<brainwash> xfdesktop uses the new function call
<brainwash> and you also confirmed that git/master worked fine
<ochosi> the problem is the plugged dialog
<ochosi> standalone works fine
<brainwash> so it's fixed in xfdesktop :)
<ochosi> yeah, and in libxfce4ui
<ochosi> but it also affects xfce4-settings
<brainwash> mmh, add more clutter to the report?
<brainwash> I guess yes
<ochosi> well, yeah, no other way to track this in a meaningful way
<ochosi> since it's connected
<ochosi> or submit a new bugreport
<brainwash> right, it's the same problem after all
<brainwash> in different packages
<ochosi> cause currently *no* dialogs open the help if they are plugged into the settings-dialog
<ochosi> (so yeah, in short, we need that patch)
<ochosi> meh, again bugzilla won't work
<brainwash> firefox?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> weird
<ochosi> works in chromium
<brainwash> yes, same here
<ochosi> anyhoo, this report/patch should be linked: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10740
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10740 in Settings Manager "Add support for versioned help desktop files" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> already done
<ochosi> ah, cool
<brainwash> ochosi: did you take a look at the proposed patches for bug 1290737 ?
<ubottu> bug 1290737 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Switch off (dpms) time maybe overwritten by xfce power manager" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1290737
<ochosi> i did
<ochosi> i'm not really sure about this tbh
<ochosi> because the subject line of the bugreport is still not addressed with the patch
<ochosi> and it's a bit fugly, even more commandline-fu
<brainwash> and it's kinda late for experiments
<ochosi> well it's kinda foreseeable that it would work
<ochosi> but yeah, you can still change these settings in xfce4-power-manager and not notice how this affects light-locker
<brainwash> do you want to assign the report to yourself?
<brainwash> (to give the illusion that we are working on it)
<brainwash> xD
<brainwash> jk
<brainwash> and we need to get the abiword fixes in
<Naphatul> is the beta stable enough for daily use?
<ochosi> brainwash: i'd rather assign it to Noskcaj as he can add the patch to our package
<ochosi> Naphatul: i wouldn't recommend it to anyone who asks that question, but i've been using it for a while
<knome> ochosi, feeling productive?
<ochosi> knome: depends :)
<ochosi> i'm currently trying to finish my parole features
<ochosi> actually making good progress
<knome> aha
<knome> well, we need a sponsorship bug...
<knome> unless $uploader magically pops up
<knome> or you want to go begging on u-devel
<knome> or 1) happens due to 2)
<knome> :)
<ochosi> what for?
<knome> docs
<ochosi> (meh, sponsorship bug is booooring)
<ochosi> are they packaged yet?
<knome> packaged? hah, it's in the branch
<ochosi> meh, i don't really know enough about that tbh
<ochosi> also had to ask someone else to take care of xubuntu-artwork
<ochosi> which is in a similar position (i can push to the branch and update the changelog)
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-20
<bluesabre> sounds like you guys are in need of somebody else!
<knome> like bluesabre?
<knome> ooh ooh!
<bluesabre> :O
<knome> bluesabre, seriously, if you could go through that...
<bluesabre> provide links to the things that need package
<knome> lp:xubuntu-docs
<bluesabre> and I will get to them tonight/tomorrow
<bluesabre> I hope this is similar to previous xubuntu-docs packaging
<bluesabre> I'll whine if not
<bluesabre> bbabl
<knome> shouldn't be too different...
<knome> Unit193, hmm.
<knome> Unit193, startpage broken
<knome> Unit193, do we expect some other directory structure?
<knome> Unit193, doesn't look like we do
<knome> Unit193, main Makefile, line 24:
<knome> ../$$lang/index.html
<knome> Unit193, line 21:
<knome> only copies *.css, should copy *.css and *.png
<knome> or the .htx file should point to ../desktop-guide/logo.png
<arrith> the kernel freeze is coming up and i would like to help fix Bug #1287966: "DisplayLink USB Graphics not supported by Ubuntu Kernel" before it passes, or find out that it's no longer a bug. the bug link is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-lts-saucy/+bug/1287966 (and a related blog post: http://plugable.com/2014/03/06/displaylink-usb-2-0-graphics-adapters-on-linux-2014-edition ).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1287966 in linux-lts-saucy (Ubuntu) "DisplayLink USB Graphics not supported by Ubuntu Kernel" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<arrith> any thoughts on if would it be better to post about investigation into that on a bug, on the ubuntu kernel mailing list, in the ubuntu kernel irc channel, or somewhere else?
<knome> arrith, both.
<knome> Unit193, http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/docs.diff.txt
<Unit193> Oh?
<knome> yeah
<knome> links point to about/fi
<knome> and logo is not visible
<knome> i guess it was a wise move to do the test-build now...
<knome> those changes fix it for me
<knome> want to review? :)
<knome> (try building it yourself!)
<Unit193> Trying latest trunk first.
<knome> yep.
<Unit193> Right, works for me because I was expecting, and working with, a different structure.
<knome> aha :)
<Unit193> So, good catch I suppose, means more work for me. :P
<knome> how so?
<knome> the fix is in trunk
<knome> please double-check it works
<knome> ..aaaand i pushed an updated translation template as well
<Unit193> We could just make the structure match mine. :D
<knome> a bit late for that, and why at this point?
<knome> why didn't you do that earlier, that is?
<Unit193> Well, there's a structure now and it seems to work for the installed docs well enough, it just doesn't work at all for what I do, simple as that.
<knome> mhm
<knome> so what do you do?
<Unit193> I want it all under one dir, and have xubuntu-index the first thing seen.  This means moving it and renaming it.
<knome> yeah... that sounds somewhat logical
<knome> we can do that for 14.04.1
<knome> or sth...
<Unit193> So I have a sed on that, adding the revno (would "upstream" that), and removing the hardcoded path to the desktop-guide.
<Unit193> s/would/wouldn't/
<knome> ochosi, hmm, parts of light-locker lock screen is not translated
<knome> ochosi, are we just lagging behind on getting stuff up?
<ochosi> we didn't have too many complete languages for it
<knome> finnish?
<knome> i mean,
<ochosi> luckily the lockscreen of light-locker shouldn't be visible too much
<knome> i see "Unlock"
<knome> what? i've surely translated that.
<ochosi> err, are you referring to lightdm-gtk-greeter maybe?
<knome> possibly that.
<knome> what ever is presented when i'm trying to unlock the screen ;)
<ochosi> heh, yeah, that's the greeter
<ochosi> no idea what the status is on translations there
<knome> tbh, i'm a bit loss with all these different light-locker projects...
<knome> itself, -greeter, -settings, what else
<knome> :P
<ochosi> there is:
<ochosi> lightdm
<ochosi> lightdm-gtk-greeter
<ochosi> lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
<ochosi> light-locker
<ochosi> light-locker-settings
<knome> >___<
<ochosi> now everything should be clear, right? :>
<knome> where do i translate the greeter?
<ochosi> https://translations.launchpad.net/lightdm-gtk-greeter
<knome> hmm hmm
<ochosi> finnish has quite a few missing and a few more that need review
<knome> yeah WEEEEIRD
<knome> context: Other
<knome> %d is integer?
<Unit193> knome: So you still think those sound sane? :P
<knome> which?
<ochosi> yup, %d is integer
<knome> cool
<knome> had a wrong translation there
<knome> and what was the content for "Other"?
<knome> hmm, wait!
<knome> WAIT!
<knome> that's translated
<knome> huh?
<knome> i shouldn't work on FOSS stuff at 3am, i get confused
<knome> where's light-locker translated?
<knome> oh wait
<knome> transifex
<knome> mmmh
<Unit193> Don't like that one?
<knome> well no,
<knome> but that's hardly a problem
<knome> since i have an account
<knome> and it's 100% translated
<knome> eh, funny?
<knome> Default display manager
<knome> == OletusnÃ¤ytÃ¶nhallintasovellus
<knome> that'll do...
<knome> where does one find l-g-g-s ?
<knome> ochosi, ^
<knome> hmm, i found a bug in whiskermenu...
<knome> not sure if it only affects vbox installations thought
<knome> -t
<ochosi> knome: stuff from the settings-manager can't be found in any menus
<ochosi> appfinder too
<knome> no
<knome> that's not the bug
<knome> the bug is:
<knome> open a category that has so many items that they will need a scrollbar
<knome> scroll fast back and forth
<knome> at some point, the workspace switches
<ochosi> aha
<bluesabre> knome... so the docs are not ready to be packaged then?
<knome> bluesabre, they are
<knome> bluesabre, i just dropped in the needed changes
<bluesabre> are you suuuuure? :]
<knome> yes.
 * bluesabre starts packaging
<Unit193> bluesabre, knome: Don't you want to wait for translations to land? :D
<knome> Unit193, no, they should land at translation deadlines
 * bluesabre stops packaging
<knome> we need another upload then
<knome> bluesabre, keep on packaging
 * bluesabre resumes packaging
<bluesabre> actually, looks like you all have already done the hard work
<bluesabre> I just have to create the sponsorship bug and build the dsc
 * bluesabre expects this for more packages in the future
<Unit193> bluesabre: I was going to say, what didn't I do? :P
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> 1. blame somebody
<bluesabre> 2. learn more about what you're doing
<bluesabre> 3. appologize
<bluesabre> 4. ???
<bluesabre> 5. profit
<knome> hah
<knome> i found two typos from the strings that were changed
<knome> fishy.
<bluesabre> >.<
<knome> launchpad says 8 strings untranslated
<knome> when i click that link
<knome> "There are no messages that match this filtering."
<knome> HMMM
<bluesabre> O.o
<knome> bluesabre, that is, typos in the finnish translation...
<bluesabre> which project?
<knome> keep on packaging
<knome> xubuntu-docs :)
<bluesabre> gotcha
<knome> might be something updating atm
<knome> now says 0
<knome> huh?
<bluesabre> now it says -14
<bluesabre> :O
<knome> :P
<knome> things start getting weird
<knome> i should shut down the computer so that doesn't spread here too much
<knome> see you later, and thanks for taking care of the sponsorship sean :)
<knome> ->
<Unit193> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/73866
<Unit193> Document es/index.xml does not validate
<bluesabre> Unit193: I don't think there is much else I can do with this... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/+bug/1294932
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1294932 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] xubuntu-docs 14.04.1" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> thoughts?
<Unit193> [ Sean Davis ], and targetting UNRELEASED?  Really? :P
<bluesabre> I've been scolded for putting the right target before
<bluesabre> sponsors are finicky
<bluesabre> and should I put the [ Sean Davis ] if I didn't actually do anything?
<bluesabre> copied a previous release's format
<Unit193> 1. When were you scolded?  2. I'm generally thinking Debian format, shouldn't be wrong but we could do it your way, sure.
<bluesabre> it's been a while
<Unit193> I'd have to know more about it, but generally you leave as UNRELEASED until you are ready for it to go into the archive.
<bluesabre> I think this should be fine, they've accepted the last 20 packages :)
 * Unit193 doesn't like it. :P
<Unit193> Alrighty, if it works.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: When you request a merge, please make sure to use what's in the archive, and add another point release targetting UNRELEASED and with an example change?
<Unit193> Does this make sense?
<bluesabre> yes... so then the UNRELEASED only applies to merges, and not for ubuntu-only packages?
<Unit193> UNRELEASED is seen in Debian VCSes too, it's to indicate the package is not meant to be uploaded right now.
<bluesabre> I think that also applies for sponsored packages as well
<bluesabre> the rules and docs are fuzzy for these things
 * Unit193 knows Debian rules, didn't think Ubuntu changed that much.
<Unit193> knome: Should I mention en_AU looks funny on the languages thing?
<arrith> knome: you think mailing list and irc? or mailing list and bug?
<Unit193> I seem to be missing context.
<arrith> Unit193: if you mean for my question i asked some 3+ hours ago
<Naphatul> when i select encryption my install it auto selects using lvm, is this just recommended or needed?
<brainwash> jhenke: hey, thanks for the xflock4 fix
<brainwash> we also need to change debian/control
<brainwash> so it won't pull xscreensaver in, something like "Recommends: ..., xscreensaver | light-locker"
<brainwash> because we don't use xscreensaver, so we shouldn't ship it
<ochosi> hey slickymasterWork 
<slickymasterWork> morning ochosi, how's everything?
<ochosi> slickymasterWork: good good :)
<slickymasterWork> great
<ochosi> i quickly wanted to ask you, aren't you a native speaker of portughese?
<slickymasterWork> yes
<ochosi> (or am i mixing you up with someone else now..)
<ochosi> cool
<slickymasterWork> do you need any help?
<ochosi> and do you have a transifex account already?
<slickymasterWork> yes
<ochosi> awesome!
<slickymasterWork> you're asking about whisker translation?
<ochosi> i just realized that we have no portughese translations in light-locker
<slickymasterWork> give me the link and I'll start working on it
<ochosi> well, some brazilian portughese, but even that is incomplete
<ochosi> yay! thanks!
<ochosi> it's only about 12 strings
<slickymasterWork> there's a bit (sometimes huge) difference between pt_PT and pt_BR
<ochosi> https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/light-locker/language/pt/
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: consider it done ;)
<ochosi> ok, well if you want, feel free to look at this as well :)
<ochosi> https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/light-locker/language/pt_BR/
<ochosi> thanks a bunch!
<ochosi> really looking forward to getting better translations for the 1.4.0 release
<ochosi> if you see more langs and you know native speakers, don't hesitate to spread the word!
<slickymasterWork> I'll take a look at the Brazilian translation and if needed I'll finish it also
<slickymasterWork> will do ochosi, don't worry
<ochosi> thanks, that's a great help!
<slickymasterWork> you could poke GridCube to get a Spanish translation
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: ^^
<ochosi> thanks, spanish is done already though
<ochosi> and iirc he's not catalan
<slickymasterWork> ok
<brainwash> ochosi: http://www.debinux.de/2014/03/xfce-fenster-maximieren-mit-drag-top/
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> sadly we won't include this change
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: done -> https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/light-locker/language/pt/
<ochosi> thanks slickymasterWork 
<ochosi> brainwash: yeah, i know
<ochosi> i'd actually want to fix that for a later xfwm4 release
<brainwash> ochosi: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9927
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9927 in General "Maximize window when dragged to top of screen" [Enhancement,New]
<brainwash> later release?
<ochosi> yeah, in the more distant future :)
<brainwash> ok :)
<ochosi> step1: change default, step2: make the drag-actions configurable
<knome> arrith, i would imagine the more communication, the better... ask the irc channel first, and if you get a direct response as to how to proceed, go with that
<knome> arrith, if not, send a mail to the mailing list
<knome> arrith, if there is a bug and you have any further information to it, add it. if not, or you don't know what, reply to the bug and ask how you could help
<knome> slow wiki today, again
<knome> micahg
<knome> micah
<knome> micahg-work
<knome> sausage
<knome> holiday
<knome> this-word-is-on-micahg's-highlight-list-as-well
<elfy> ochosi: funny that you posted that comment in the lightdm-greeter bug - I posted exactly the same in the current forum thread on it :)
<knome> meh
<knome> bug 1285843
<ubottu> bug 1285843 in transmission (Ubuntu) "Queue selections do not move torrents" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1285843
<knome> that's a weird one
<knome> to be honest, at this point i'm not even sure what "queue" is supposed to mean
<knome> because when you edit the queue, the files are ordered in that order in the main GUI
<knome> (in saucy, where that works)
<knome> but you can *also* *order* the torrents by name, file size, activity, etc...
<knome> which *also* changes the order
<knome> so is the order shown in GUI the queue order, eg. what should be downloaded first?
 * elfy thinks a lot of the testcases should be pared down 
<knome> well, i think that either there is another bug in transmission
<knome> i mean, not being able to show the queue order
<knome> or then there is... another bug in transmission
<knome> which is, the queue order doesn't have any correlation with anything
<knome> also note my comment
<knome> same version
<knome> queue sorting works on saucy
<knome> queue sorting doesn't work on trusty
<knome> WHAT?
<knome> potential GTK issue?
 * elfy wouldn't notice tbh - rarely torrent, when I do I don't need a queue :)
<knome> same here
<knome> so what do you think?
<knome> scrap that bug from the blueprint?
<knome> it really doesn't sound like high-priority
<knome> or anything we will actually come to
<knome> i just did that...
<knome> bug 1270894 is somewhat nasty...
<ubottu> bug 1270894 in ristretto (Ubuntu) "Sorting by date or name not working properly in thumbnail bar" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270894
<elfy> well ... I'd guess we've got bigger fish to fry than queuing in transmission
<knome> mhm
<knome> and even if we didn't...
<elfy> and is it our fish to fry anyway?
<knome> i wouldn't call this bug something we "commit" to fix for the release
<knome> it's in no way release-critical
<elfy> nope
<knome> i also marked it as low
<elfy> I'm getting rather concerned about the keyboard one 
<knome> it's getting lost in the list of bugs :P
<elfy> if that's not dealt with then that is release critical imo
<knome> bug 1277154
<ubottu> bug 1277154 in xfce4-notes-plugin (Ubuntu) "Ctrl+W does not ask for confirmation on note delete" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277154
<knome> you happy with that? :)
<elfy> yea
<knome> removing from blueprint
<knome> what's the kb bug?
<knome> am i just not seeing it
<knome> or is it not linked to the blueprint
<elfy> wasn't - is now
<elfy> bug 1284635
<ubottu> bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284635
<knome> lol, good
 * elfy found another thunar bug - hesistant to add more to the list that won't get done lol 
<knome> if it's something we would *like* to get fixed... just add it
<knome> :|
<slickymasterWork> knome: do you think bug 1289411 should be added to the blueprint?
<ubottu> bug 1289411 in xfce4-settings "Help button doesn't open online help" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1289411
<elfy> yes
<knome> at least the list works as a shortlist for bugs to fix for .1
<slickymasterWork> elfy: was your 'yes' addressed to what I asked?
<elfy> both :p
<knome> ochosi, bluesabre: can we set "xv" to "false" on default xubuntu installation? that's a workaround for bug 1278089
<ubottu> bug 1278089 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole reports "Gstreamer backend error, could not initialise supporting library" in trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278089
<slickymasterWork> lol
<knome> slickymasterWork, yep, you should
<knome> slickymasterWork, docs translation templates are up..
<slickymasterWork> knome: are you referring to the ubiquity ones?
<knome> no
<knome> docs
<slickymasterWork> yeah, I see it now :P
<knome> the strings changed a bit since we poked the entities a bit
<knome> so what i suggest you to do
<elfy> knome: did the last slideshow bit get done now?
<knome> elfy, it's done, but waiting for an upload (stgraber has promised to do that)
<elfy> ok - I'll forget about that now :p
<knome> slickymasterWork, 1) update your branch
<knome> 2) open the .po file IN A TEXT EDITOR
<knome> 3) go to launchpad, and filter out untranslated strings
<knome> 4) search the .po file for those strings: you will find commented out strings
<knome> that basically allows you to reuse the text
<knome> but only update the paths
<slickymasterWork> ok, knome. I'll do it that way. It's just 30 strings
<knome> yep
<knome> that's what i did yesterday
<knome> there were like 5 strings that actually needed "new" translations
<knome> the rest were updating the patgs
<knome> *paths
<slickymasterWork> yesterday was father's day over here, so no work at home
<knome> GridCube, spaÃ±ish traÃ±slatioÃ± of docs?
<knome> GridCube, the official call for translations is not out yet, but we have everything ready for you to go ahead and translate
<knome> no strings will change...
<elfy> tell me how and I will translate en_AU into a proper language like en_GB
<knome> elfy, lol
<elfy> just for the karma you understand :p
<slickymasterWork> knome: traducciÃ³n al espaÃ±ol de los documentos
<knome> slickymasterWork, dokumentaation suomenkielinen kÃ¤Ã¤nnÃ¶s!
<slickymasterWork> that was in spanhis actually, not ion portuguese :P
<knome> yeah, and that was "the finnish..." in finnish :P
<elfy> ha ha ha
<elfy> furriners
<knome> elfy, https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/trusty/+pots/desktop-guide/en_GB/+translate
<knome> elfy, start bashing ;)
<slickymasterWork> lunch time. bbl ->
 * knome ponders about eating as well
 * elfy had cakes
<GridCube> knome, i've asked several people to help, i will try to check myself 
<knome> i ate two eggs :)
<knome> yummy
<knome> 6-7min eggs
<GridCube> im breakfasting coockis and mate
<knome> i woke up at 1pm and skipped breakfast :P
<elfy> nah - you had breakfast 
<elfy> you didn't have it early is all :)
<knome> nah ;)
<knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/trusty_real_baseline.png
<knome> o hai pleia2 
<pleia2> sneaky
<knome> me? :P
<pleia2> mhmm
<knome> hah
<knome> your idle time is less than 5mins -> busted
<knome> i know.
<knome> :)
<GridCube> knome, there are a bunch of entries to "translate" are just the names of programs, and those are just the same
<knome> GridCube, then translate them to the same strings
<GridCube> i did that P:
<knome> elfy, i'll mark your mail "critical"
<knome> elfy, if i haven't answered in a week, poke me
<GridCube> knome, what have i have to do whit this; <placeholder-1/>lightdm
<knome> most probably just keep as it is
<GridCube> Simple session-locker for <placeholder-1/> 
<GridCube> thats the next one, do i translate the text?
<knome> translate everything else than <placeholder-1/>
<GridCube> k
<knome> you can look up the actual string if you test-build the documentation
<knome> and open the appropriate page
<knome> so you know how to format that string if it's not obvious how to do it with your language
<knome> pleia2, hrm
<knome> pleia2, when haz time?
<pleia2> in a bit
<knome> let's schedule a website-marketing sprint..
<knome> not sure i have time "in a bit"
<knome> later today?
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> anything that works particularly well or bad for you?
<pleia2> being owned by puppet and fedora at the moment
<pleia2> CC meeting is at 17:00, can do after that
<knome> ok, let's try that
<knome> can't promise i'll be here 18utc sharp though ;)
<pleia2> yeah whenever
 * knome goes to unfocused mode, works with real work... ->
<m3741> hey everyone,  i'm looking for the live-build environment that is used to build xubuntu saucy. i'd be perfectly happy with just the auto/config script itself but if i could get the whole live-build environment all the better
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> there is a team meeting at 18utc
<slickymasterWork> knome: you around?
<knome> hm
<knome> :)
<elfy> that slickymasterWork is pyschic knome :p
<knome> slickymasterWork, i am around :P
<knome> waited more than the magic 3 minutes though ;)
<slickymasterWork> lol, sorry knome 
<knome> it's okay
<knome> i was eating
<knome> and just came back
<slickymasterWork> question is in the pt po file I have this -> "Last-Translator: Pasi Lallinaho <pasi@shimmerproject.org>\n"
<slickymasterWork> do i change it?
<knome> well that's weird, but keep it
<slickymasterWork> AT THE VERY BEGINING OF THE FILE
<knome> especially if you are doing the last changes via launchpad
<slickymasterWork> no, I'm working directly on the po file
<knome> well during this translation progress, i've magically learnt many languages :P
<knome> are you editing it by hadn?
<knome> heh
<knome> or with a po editing software?
<slickymasterWork> so, just keep there, right?
<slickymasterWork> no, working in Geany
<knome> i would suggest looking at poedit
<knome> in poedit, you can give your personal information
<knome> like name and email address
<slickymasterWork> is it too heavy?
<knome> and when you save the file, that information is saved automatically
<knome> no, it's really light
<slickymasterWork> I'll try then
<slickymasterWork> + it
<knome> the only bad side with it is that
<knome> it always creates a .mo file on save
<knome> which means you will have to remove that
<knome> i guess you could be able to remove that feature...
<slickymasterWork> you mean rename it to .po?
<elfy> knome: not sure I'm going to make tonights meeting at 1800 - but I put the keyboard issue on the agenda - I worry about that still being about in April the middle 
<knome> slickymasterWork, no... it's different
<knome> slickymasterWork, just remove .mo
<knome> slickymasterWork, and yeah, you can remove that feature
<slickymasterWork> ok, I'll give it a try
<knome> edit -> preferences -> editor -> uncheck "automatically compile .mo file on save"
<slickymasterWork> okie dokie
<knome> a few helpful shortcut keys:
<knome> ctrl+enter -> go to next untranslated string
<knome> ctrl+arrow up/down go to next/prev string
<knome> elfy, mhm
<slickymasterWork> 16 MB the package, yeah, it's quite light
<ochosi> knome: re: parole, i'm not sure that that's a good idea as a general solution. it leads to a lot of cpu cycles iirc
<knome> so, who's chairing the meeting today :)
<knome> ochosi, did you promise to do that? :)
<slickymasterWork> knome: with the po file translated do I just upload it or instaed do I bzr push it to my branch?
<knome> either
<slickymasterWork> what do you usually do?
<knome> i push to production :P
<knome> i guess the easiest way collectively is to upload the .po
<slickymasterWork> pushing it means that afterwards I'll have to do a MP for you to review and approve :P
<knome> yes
<slickymasterWork> he he, I'll give you that pleasure then :p
<knome> well what ever way
<knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 20 18:01:02 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<knome> #topic Pick a chair
<knome> volunteers? nominations?
<elfy> sorry - in and out of the room
<pleia2> on unreliable cell wifi
<knome> excuses :)
<pleia2> :D
<knome> i can wait for a chair to pop up...
<knome> :)
<pleia2> I can try, but ssh is too slow right now to reasonably paste action items into channel
<pleia2> and if I disappear, someone else has to :)
<pleia2> (my connection was much better yesterday, before the snowmageddon)
<knome> well if elfy is in and out, you have bad connectivity, i'm feeling lazy and micahg sits quiet, why do we even have the meeting?
<knome> just asking...
<micahg-work> maybe a different time would be betteR?
<knome> 19UTC (one hour later) usually has worked pretty well
<knome> nobody has said it's bad for them
<knome> and it was discussed last time that an hour before is better for most
<micahg-work> fine with me, though I have a meeting at 19:30 today
<pleia2> it's fine when I'm home :)
<knome> now, i'm not blaming about people not showing up
<knome> the meetings aren't obligatory
<knome> it shouldn't be a chore
<knome> if it is, maybe we should organize communication in another way
<elfy> I did say that 1800 was bad for me ;)
<micahg-work> I pop up to answer questions
<knome> i can chair a meeting, and run down the agenda, but if people are here just because they feel they have to be... that kind of sucks
<knome> elfy, except this week :)
<elfy> well - holiday :)
<knome> and yeah, this change in time was supposed to be a trial...
<elfy> it is still bad though - food for little one shouldn't have to wait for two IRC meetings ;)
<pleia2> trial failed, maybe my internet will be better in 50 minutes
<knome> hah
<knome> #topic Ibus vs installed keyboard layout - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1284635 
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed]
<knome> let's discuss about this
<knome> elfy, want to outline?
<elfy> mmm - well - not much I can add to the bug report I did, but this is a big issue imo 
<elfy> I'm not sure how many this would affect - whether just UK or not - but it would be all of them
<knome> i wonder if this is related to some of the changes in gnome-settings-manager (time-admin, users-admin) or so which were landed earlier this cycle
<elfy> also not sure what we can do about it - though removing ibus fixes it
<dkessel> I have had that on standard ubuntu some time ago I believe
<slickymasterWork> so far I haven't saw it affecting the PT keyboard layout
<elfy> I'm pretty sure that when ibus ended up in the panel is when the issue started - but can't be more speciic than that
<knome> dkessel, can you add on the bug then please? would be good to have more eyes on it..
<knome> didn't somebody report this on FR layout, or do i misremember?
<knome> i'm wondering if it has something to do with truncating the LANG to two characters
<micahg-work> we got 1.5.5 of ibus 5 days before that bug was filed, maybe it's a regression?
<elfy> you might remember me trying to work with a freench layout 
<knome> micahg-work, very likely in that case
<knome> elfy, let's try with an older version of ibus :)
<micahg-work> Update en-us compose table and add locale tables for xkb engines.
<elfy> micahg-work: extrmely possible - I remember seeing it - then thinking nothing of it for a day or so
<knome> hmmh
<elfy> gtg - back in 30 
<dkessel> I guess it would help if I could find the old bug ID. Will try to find that. Very limited time these days
<knome> micahg-work, have a link to the commit?
<micahg-work> e64b25c0ab8fadeae97fe78dcfcbc3a5d0869c6b
<micahg-work> sorry, just going off launchpad info here
<micahg-work> previous version of ibus: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/1.5.4-1ubuntu1
<micahg-work> https://github.com/ibus/ibus/commit/e64b25c0ab8fadeae97fe78dcfcbc3a5d0869c6b
 * knome is looking at the last link
<micahg-work> https://github.com/ibus/ibus/commit/e64b25c0ab8fadeae97fe78dcfcbc3a5d0869c6b#diff-feb6c99dcbf1f2fc7ffa5b43075149b3R42 maybe?
<micahg-work> oh, soryr, that's a test
<knome> i can run a test with the old version shortly
<knome> zsyncing daily
<dkessel> Found my old bug ID for this: bug 1240198
<ubottu> bug 1240198 in indicator-keyboard (Ubuntu) "wrong keyboard layout active after booting into desktop, after upgrade to saucy" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1240198
<elfy> back
<knome> just running an installation
<elfy> dkessel: oh yea - I'd nto have noticed that one at all
<knome> yep, can confirm
<elfy> good - although I've had people confirm it - I thought I was going madder
<micahg-work> so, maybe it's an older issue than
<knome> i'll check with the old ibus package soon
<elfy> micahg-work: we never had it previously
<micahg-work> dkessel's bug is from pre-trusty
<elfy> I've not seen it until ibus pitched up on the panel
<elfy> micahg-work: yes - and it's for an ubuntu indicator 
<knome> did we install ibus pre-trusty?
<micahg-work> I would think so, let me check
<micahg-work> yes, from at least oneiric on
<elfy> micahg-work: I'd have noticed this in saucy - I often use things like # in passwords - even in vm's that last one boot
<micahg-work> (those are all the seeds I have checked out locally)
<micahg-work> raring had ibus 1.4, saucy brought 1.5
<knome> micahg-work, is there a clean way to install an older package version?
<micahg-work> if you have a repo with the old version available, you can add it to your apt sources and use -t with apt-get install to get that version
<knome> i guess i don't ;)
<micahg-work> but stuff doesn't necessarily downgrade like that gracefully
<knome> sure
<micahg-work> you can download all the debs and pass them to sudo dpkg -i on the command line
<knome> i guess the old debs aren't saved anywhere?
<knome> well at least i can confirm that removing ibus fixes...
<micahg-work> knome, in launchpad for sure
<micahg-work> gave link above to the upload, click on the arch you want
<knome> ahh
<slickymasterWork> bbiw
<knome> hidden!
<Unit193> ./#endmeeting ?
<knome> nah.
<knome> (was aware, thanks.)
<knome> micahg-work, if there is any possibility you could look at the merges + uploads today, cool
<knome> micahg-work, if not, please let us know and we will find another way to do it
<micahg-work> ok
<knome> (later not preferred, but...)
<knome> well at least installing the old ibus doesn't break the layout..
<knome> upgrading back to latest
 * elfy is back again
<elfy> so - a regression then 
<knome> well, have to look more
<knome> apparently i would have had to manually start something
<knome> hmm, not sure
<knome> the package ends up with a crash...
<knome> so downgrading isn't clean
<knome> #topic Schedule next meeting
<knome> #info Next Xubuntu community meeting: Thu 27 Mar, 19UTC
<knome> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 19:14:32 2014 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-03-20-18.01.moin.txt
<pleia2> thanks knome 
<knome> thanks, i guess
<knome> i'm off
<elfy> thanks 
<knome> see you later
<elfy> cya 
<elfy> yep
<micahg-work> oh
<micahg-work> forgot to announce, beta 2 freeze Mon 21:00 UTC
<micahg-work> or I missed it
<elfy> nope - you didn't miss it
<elfy> as soon as I've got url for the tracker I'll be calling out 
<pleia2> yay
<elfy> and someone can whack it on the social media things :p
<pleia2> yes, that :)
<elfy> I mean pleia2 can you whack it on the social media things :D
<pleia2> haha
<elfy> I'll ping you with it as soon as I've done it :)
<pleia2> thanks
<slickymaster> back
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<slickymaster> and the meeting is over :P
<elfy> yep
<slickymaster> well, going to have dinner then
<elfy> I had to during the meeting :)
<slickymaster> bbl _
<pleia2> slickymaster: it was an hour earlier this week, but we're putting it back next week
<pleia2> enjoy
<slickymaster> knome: for your appreciation -> https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/212038
<Unit193> Oh, docs string freeze, we can do translations now.
<elfy> knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes - Releasing "The image must not be oversized" what does that mean now we don't fit on a CD?
<Unit193> 1G is our limit, though less than 900 is preferred.
<elfy> ok - specified somewhere?
<Unit193> No idea.
<Unit193> knome: You're not going to like this, the structure is still off. :3
<Unit193> (I think I mentioned something about this a long time ago, but since forgot as it Worked for Meâ¢)
<Unit193> preferences-desktop.png was also dropped from the package?  What for?
<Unit193> It's still in use, or trying to be.
<knome> Unit193, hmm, so is something "not working"?
<Unit193> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html <<< Look, also look >>> file:///usr/share/xubuntu-docs/desktop-guide/guide-desktop.html
<Unit193> Images be missing.
<Unit193> The index image is right with my mod, and right on the desktop-guide and languages.
<Unit193> Missing a few images there. :/
<ochosi> Unit193: have you tested this with an earlier garcon version?
<ochosi> or you brainwash ?
<ochosi> the bugreport doesn't seem entirely clear on that
<ochosi> although the fact that xfdesktop's menu still works points more to the panel...
<ochosi> this seems to be where the panel switched to the new garcon stuff: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-panel/commit/?id=eb2098a7d18df0a2ecd995f781cc7c861337e1f6
<ochosi> it's possible that xfdesktop still uses old garcon routines and is hence not affected
<brainwash> no
<brainwash> I've switched to whisker menu
<Unit193> And you don't get hit by it?
<brainwash> nope
<ochosi> yeah, but whiskermenu and xfdesktops menu arent affected
<ochosi> it only affects the application-menu plugin of xfce4-panel
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i think i found the problem
<ochosi> i *think* :)
<ochosi> garcon now uses gtk_image_new_from_icon_name
<ochosi> instead of gtk_image_new_from_icon_name
<ochosi> arr
<ochosi> instead of xfce_panel_image_new_from_source
<ochosi> so the icons break because the icon-theme doesn't have an icon called "skype.png" or "skype.xpm" but only "skype"
<ochosi> guess i should try to back this up somehow...
<ochosi> yup, i think that's it
<ochosi> not sure i can submit a patch for that, but it basically needs to check with gtk_icon_source_set_filename as well
<brainwash> ochosi: why not?
<brainwash> a patch can be reviewed
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-21
<ochosi> brainwash: because i'm not sure yet how to fix it
<brainwash> andrzejr_ should know :)
<ochosi> not sure, actually NSchermer changed that part
<ochosi> Unit193: you still around?
<Unit193> More or less.
<ochosi> Unit193: if so, could you do a (maybe strange) test for me?
<ochosi> it should be rather simple, let me PM you the instructions quickly
<ochosi> ok, so i think if Unit193 manages to confirm my test too, i'm sure that this is what's failing
<elfy> ochosi pleia2 knome - thanks for the thanks, but mostly thanks for the ontopic comments that I can read and mull over :)
<knome> mh, i felt bad for you with the original thread...
<Unit193> elfy: Yes I stink, sorry, and I agree you did a much better job than seemingly most of us.
<elfy> knome: I'd have restarted it in the morning probably - when I saw the offtopic stuff I couldn't be assed to do more than post :)
<Unit193> Also, I have another system ready to update, whenever you want.
<knome> i don't mind those mails to the mailing list, they can add something to some discussion, but i'd love if we were able to keep threads on topic
<ochosi> +1
<elfy> knome: last one tried - just didn't actually make a new thread lol - I thread them - so it just went on the end
<elfy> Unit193: next week would be cool - after the b2 tracker is up 
<Unit193> Will do.
<elfy> thanks
<elfy> hi GridCube 
<GridCube> :) hi elfy 
<elfy> Unit193: I do actually do hardware upgrades for the lts to lts test - but they're not 'used and abused' ones 
<elfy> but they are at least hardware rather than vm's
<Unit193> Well you know me, I have to run debsums even before I do an upgrade, so quite abused. :P
<elfy> :)
<elfy> I'll hopefully be able to bully balloons into letting me know what the tracker url will be again 
<elfy> early
<bluesabre> knome, ochosi: yeah, if we want, we can set xv to false in xubuntu-default-settings
<bluesabre> I forget what xv does, but I think it is hardware acceleration (maybe?)
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> it is
<knome> bluesabre, well ochosi said it'll create a lot of CPU cycles... but if it can't be fixed otherwise, maybe we should do that
<ochosi> hence more cpu cycles
<knome> it's just an option; but it fixes those two bugs related.
<ochosi> and it's more of a graphics-driver issue than a parole issue from what i can tell
<ochosi> well, "fixes"..
<ochosi> we actually decided against adding a gui option to disable xv earlier in parole
<knome> WELL
<ochosi> because it's not a very desired thing
<knome> how do you define "fixes" in any other way than "makes the error go away"
<knome> :)
<bluesabre> well, gnome-shell fixes crappy multimedia key support in xubuntu
<ochosi> nah, i won't explain the diff between workaround and fix now :)
<bluesabre> :)
<ochosi> huhu
<elfy> :)
<bluesabre> I'll try to add that patch in tonight
<ochosi> wait, what patch?
<bluesabre> errr, not?
<ochosi> i'm kinda -1 on disabling xv by default
<bluesabre> today I am a packager, let me know what you all want me to do
<ochosi> it will be quite the regression for many who had no problems so far
<ochosi> hah
<bluesabre> ochosi: have we tested the performance difference?
<bluesabre> brainwash: poke
<ochosi> fun way to sneak out of an argument ;)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> I'm getting better at it
<ochosi> i'll dig up the old bugreport...
<bluesabre> actually, the first thing I need to do is fix the catfish-stable ppa for precise, apparently there's a distro that uses it, and I broke it for them
<bluesabre> yay gtk3.4
<bluesabre> and then I will release, upload l-g-g-s
<bluesabre> anything else need a package tonight?
 * elfy refuses to answer that
<ochosi> bluesabre: this guy had an interesting thought: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9428#c5
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9428 in General "Add an option in the preferences window to toggle xv output" [Enhancement,Resolved: wontfix]
<knome> bluesabre, anything and everything that's queued for micahg?
<ochosi> anyway, we had near to 0 reports about the xv extension being a problem...
<knome> near to 0 == 2? :)
<bluesabre> near to 0 ~ 2
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> both in virtualbox, i gues
<knome> +s
<ochosi> haha
<knome> one of them was reported by me!
<ochosi> seriously?
<knome> at least the other.
<knome> by me.
<bluesabre> or that other one
<ochosi> it can only work with xv disabled in virtualbox afaik
<bluesabre> you know, the *other other* one
<elfy> ochosi: if things like that are the case then I really need to know - then I can put notes in the testcase to say so
<ali1234> gstreamer sucks anyway :/
<elfy> then we will get less spurious bugs
<ali1234> i had to switch to xbmc cos it's the only thing that actually keeps the audio and video in sync
<knome> but 1278089
<knome> bug 1278089
<ubottu> bug 1278089 in parole (Ubuntu) "parole reports "Gstreamer backend error, could not initialise supporting library" in trusty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1278089
<knome> doesn't mention if it's in a virtualized environment
<ochosi> yeah it doesn't
<elfy> pretty sure migou was doing them in vm - he was here asking about how to use vm's I am sure
<knome> okat
<knome> *okay
<ochosi> knome: i thought you said "both in virtualbox, i guess"?
<knome> then it's probably a vm-related problem
<knome> "i guess"
<ochosi> well i thought you were one of the two ppl
<bluesabre> elfy: so, the note would be
<ochosi> so err?
<knome> is not "100% guaranteed"
<knome> ochosi, i did report bug 1155151
<ubottu> bug 1155151 in parole (Ubuntu) "Can't play an OGV file" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155151
<knome> but not the other bug
<knome> i can only speak for my self
<elfy> could add a generic "If reporting bug from a vm - please say so" to testcases
<knome> unless the other person notes if they ran parole in a VM or not
<bluesabre> "Run `parole -xf` in Terminal before testing Parole when testing in a virtual machine"
<bluesabre> darn
<bluesabre> parole -xv
<bluesabre> actually, thats not right either
<bluesabre> parole -xv false
<bluesabre> right ochosi?
<knome> not that either
<bluesabre> bah
<knome> parole --xv false
<ochosi> i think you have to flip a switch in xfconf
<ochosi> or: you can
<knome> ^ that does it
<ochosi> not sure we kept the commandline thingy
<knome> you only have to run that once
<bluesabre> we did
<ochosi> knome: are you running 0.6?
<knome> ochosi, whatever is in trusty.
<ochosi> ok
<knome> or, was, when i reported/confirmed
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> mind you, still watching the pythons, not really debugging anything
<bluesabre> parole --help
<bluesabre> :)
<brainwash> so much activity here
<knome> just throwing in comments that might or might not be helpful.
<bluesabre> mostly me making typos
<ochosi> just saying, that consumes both my CPUs when watching a normal movie
<ochosi> so the movie actually stutters
<bluesabre> ah
<elfy> bluesabre: so the command is definitely parole --xv false for testing in a vm 
<bluesabre> it'd be nice to do some sort of detection to make it work
<bluesabre> elfy: yes
 * bluesabre will investigate that over the weekend
<knome> bluesabre, yeah, that would be yummy:)
<ochosi> same movie, i get 40% cpu
<ochosi> with xv enabled
<brainwash> it only affects parole? other gstreamer based players work fine?
<ochosi> brainwash: is that a question or a statement
<brainwash> ?
<bluesabre> I think totem handles things very differently now
<ochosi> totem uses clutter
<bluesabre> other gstreamer players... not sure which
<ochosi> i guess there's mostly elementary's player, which also uses clutter
<ochosi> frankly, this bugreport is really inconclusive: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10733
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10733 in General "Parole gives me "Gstreamer Error...Unable to start the support library."" [Major,Needinfo]
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, but i guess you get tearing everywhere...
<ali1234> no, actually xbmc is the only player that doesn't have tearing too (because it goes full screen - but it also turns off all my other monitors too)
<knome> just ask if the report was done in a VM or not.
<ali1234> but if i want to watch a movie or something that's okay
<elfy> knome: I made a note to add a generic note to our testcases re vm's
<knome> note to note
<elfy> and I'll finish parole tomorrow
<ochosi> ali1234: wow, so what backend does it use? its own?
<ali1234> yes
<ochosi> hmmm, i guess i gotta try it again then
<ochosi> it used to segfault and do all kinds of crazy stuff here, even kernel panics
<ali1234> it still crashes if you're not careful
<ochosi> hehe, "careful"?
<ali1234> but all media players do
<ochosi> yeah, but with xbmc it sucks cause it's in fullscreen-mode and there used to be no easy way to kill it
<ochosi> (well, with a kernel panic that doesnt matter anyway)
<elfy> night
<bluesabre> ok, catfish should be fixed for precise ppa now
<knome> precise? aren't we focusing on trusty stuff?
<Unit193> My focus is on Unicorn.
<bluesabre> I am now back to trusty stuff
<Unit193> knome: So, docs fixes?
<Unit193> Saw the links to broken stuff?
<knome> will get to that tomorrow
<Unit193> As long as you saw them, it's up to you when you investigate. :)
<knome> i'll ping you tomorrow.
<knome> anyway, i'm soon out of battery
<knome> nighty!
<ochosi> Unit193: commented on the xfce-panel appmenu bug quite extensively. so it's actually up to nick to decide how he wants to fix this exactly...
<ochosi> night knome 
<Unit193> Alrighty.
<ochosi> not much more i can do for now
<Unit193> How full is the patch? :P
<ochosi> well it's basically a huge question mark added to the changes in garcon
<Unit193> pleia2: You touched on "Social Media" again in the mailing list, did you follow up with holstein about G+ (or was it Facebook?), he said something about being interested.  If you really need someone that isn't good socially on G+, in theory I could set up an account and help out.
<holstein> yeah, just let me know, pleia2 .. i have G+ setup, and im about as inactive there as facebook, but i do check in and can help with whatever
<pleia2> Unit193, holstein - I can't add anyone to G+ :(
<pleia2> only the owner can, and he isn't responding
<pleia2> still hoping, I didn't realize that managers couldn't add more managers
<Unit193> Ooooooh.
<Unit193> pleia2: Sorry then.
<pleia2> he is an admin on fb though
<pleia2> holstein, I mean
<Unit193> Well didn't think you meant me, first you'd have to find me, then add the terribly inactive account. :P
<holstein> pleia2: you think i should say something? to the admin?
<holstein> MIA admin :/
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Oooh, how do you like smuxi?  Server setup?
<bluesabre0> just testing it out for now
<bluesabre0> installed it on my webserver
<bluesabre0> Unit193: are you a big smuxi user?
<Unit193> bluesabre0: Never used it, but the client/core idea of quassel is interesting, moreso when you factor in that you can use a GUI or TUI client. :)
<Unit193> It being in mono has kept me from installing, though.
<bluesabre0> yeah, that bothered me a bit
<bluesabre0> but being able to connect with a GUI to my server sounded like fun
<Unit193> (Exactly like quassel. ;) )
<bluesabre0> I'm still an IRC noob
<bluesabre0> :)
<bluesabre0> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-session/+bug/1295482
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295482 in xfce4-session (Ubuntu) "[needs-packaging] xfce4-session 4.10.1-3ubuntu5" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<bluesabre0> that should solve the xscreensaver issue
<micahg> bluesabre: shouldn't that be the other way since we prefer light-locker?
<bluesabre0> there was some discussion about this the other day
<bluesabre0> Unit193, was there a reason to have xscreensaver first?
<bluesabre0> or were you and brainwash just being contradictory?  :)
<bluesabre0> micahg: I can swap it right quick if you'd like
<Unit193> I don't remember precisely, but either way should work as we seed light-locker.  Which does xflock pick first?
<micahg> it technically shouldn't matter
<bluesabre0> now it is light-locker, xscreensaver, gnome-screensaver
<bluesabre0> yeah, your call, didn't seem like order was an issue
<Unit193> So, I'd say we should have it exactly like that, but that's me.
<Unit193> (sed s/,/|/g of course)
<micahg> it technically doesn't matter, was just wondering if there was a reason one way or the other, this might actually be better
<bluesabre0> micahg, would you like to handle the upload? :)
<bluesabre0> I need to head to bed, haven't had any sleep all week
<micahg> looking at it now
<bluesabre0> thanks
<bluesabre0> night everyone :)
<Unit193> G'night.
<micahg> uploaded
<micahg> Noskcaj: are you planning on fixing tumbler?
<micahg> Unit193: you're involved with xubuntu docs, right?  are the current docs taking into account the pending changes from ochosi ?
<micahg> https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+activereviews
<Noskcaj> micahg, the issue?
<micahg> Noskcaj: FTBFS on ppc64el
<micahg> pitti kicked the sync bug back to you
<Noskcaj> i'll look into it this weekend
<Unit193> micahg: I don't think the docs mention those anywhere, so nothing to change, though I am not related to the whiskermenu changes at all.
<micahg> Noskcaj: wait, it looks like you fixed it already
<micahg> weird
<micahg> oh, sigh
<micahg> Noskcaj: sorry, browser cache issue
<micahg> you did fix it
<Unit193> I think lp:xubuntu-docs is out of sync with the archive right now though.  (Archive changelog, just needs set to released and start the next version.)
<micahg> sigh
<micahg> I can merge these in, but I'll need a UIFe bug approved before I can upload
<micahg> since it only affects xubuntu, that'll just mean the xubuntu docs team needs to sign off on it
<Unit193> (The docs thing is a non-issue, just need to merge it)  Really?  It's not just a bug with them already being in, but wrong?
<micahg> hrm, sorry, 2 issues
<micahg> the 3 branches waiting to merge in for -default-setting I can merge, but I can't upload without docs team sign off
<micahg> since there are UI settings changes
<Unit193> jjfrv8 is docs lead, can add him.
<micahg> lp:xubuntu-docs being out of date is not good, is that something I can fix (don't think I can do tonight)
<micahg> ok, I'll merge the branches and file a UIFe bug
<micahg> and subscribe both jjfrv8 and ochosi and they can hash out what's needed for docs
<Unit193> Oh hoho, bluesabre messed up. :/
<bluesabre0> ?
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/DHdxtcD7c1y9psGO4U7H/
<Unit193> bluesabre0: You don't have the new images.
<bluesabre0> I mentioned to use lp:xubuntu-docs as the base
<bluesabre0> some things cannot be easily done with a sponsorship
<Unit193> Uploading the tar.gz should help with that.
<Noskcaj> micahg, :)
<Noskcaj> oh that, yeah
<bluesabre0> :\
<Unit193> knome: See above, that'd explain some of the problems.
<bluesabre0> for future uploads such as these, I'll make sure to include the .tar.gz and be specific
<bluesabre0> sorry for the mess :)
<Unit193> Thank you.
<Unit193> Dang, no scrollback to check out the other issues.
<micahg> ochosi: sorry, just ran out of time, what's in the merges is fine, in the future, we probably want changelogs to go along with them, if you could please file a UIFe bug for the branches and get jjfrv8  to sign off that docs can be updated for the changes, I'll upload as soon as I can 
<micahg> I will get this stuff uploaded before Sunday morning my time
<micahg> (assuming we have docs sign off)
<micahg> now off to sleep
<Unit193> Good night, micahg.
<micahg> good niht
<micahg> night
<dkessel> Good morning
<paioniumezza> Hi, developers.
<elfy> I'll say hi as the devs are all snoring
<paioniumezza> But not you, ok?
<elfy> no - I'm no dev - I do qa
<elfy> paioniumezza: might be able to help you or point you in the right direction
<paioniumezza> Ok. I'm new here. Sorry for my english. It's not my native language :-) Well, I am interested in one of the topics of the brainstorm...
<elfy> you'll have to point me at that :)
<paioniumezza> Precisely: "Investigate if we can still get python3 only on the iso" 
<paioniumezza> Anyone is taking care abouts this?
<paioniumezza> Already?
<elfy> from the brainstorm at the beginning of the cycle?
<paioniumezza> Yes.
<elfy> at a guess I'd say that is reliant on packages we use - but I can't give you a definitive answer
<paioniumezza> seemed to me that it referred only to have python 3 in iso instead of the current 2.7.3. If so, then there are important considerations at 'https://wiki.python.org/moin/Python2orPython3'.
<paioniumezza> "There are a few minor downsides, such as slightly worse library support..." and so on
<paioniumezza> n summary, I was wondering if someone on the team has already proposed something about it and how I could participate, since it interests me.
<elfy> paioniumezza: hang around in the channel and when they are looking they'll see what you've said :)
<paioniumezza> elfy: Thanks for the light :)
<elfy> you're welcome :)
<paioniumezza> As a new User/Developer, I'm very hungry for knowledge. So, can you explain me your participation on this project, on QA, as you've pointed?
<paioniumezza> If this does not bother you ...
<knome> Unit193, aha, so not branch-code-related, but packaging/upload-related, ACK.
<knome> Unit193, is there something i need to worry about?
<knome> i guess not, since the docs build good to me.
<ochosi> micahg: sure, adding changelog is no problem, i can do that from now on
<ochosi> micahg: no need to have a docs signoff on those changes btw
<Unit193> Won't hurt and can only "look good."
<Unit193> knome: Installed and all?
<knome> Unit193, no, just test-built
<knome> but isn't "installation" just cp the build dir anyway?
<elfy> ochosi: pretty sure that Danilo on the m/l is the paioniumezza user in here earlier :)
<ochosi> possible yeah
<ochosi> still, replying on the ml is useful for other potential/future contributors too
<elfy> yea - was just saying :)
<ochosi> sure :)
<elfy> there seems to have been more of that this cycle - or I'm noticing it more - all good whichever :)
<brainwash> memory leak bug 1295614
<ubottu> bug 1295614 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop leaking memory on wallpaper change (ubuntu 14.04 with xfce)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295614
<brainwash> xfdesktop 4.11 is so.. experimental :)
<pleia2> holstein: you're welcome to try :)
<slickymasterWork> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/uife-bug-1294619/+merge/211707 has been merged
<slickymasterWork> do you think I can now start to work on the slideshow translation?
<knome> let me check.
<knome> no.
<knome> actually, hmm
<knome> yes
<slickymasterWork> good
<slickymasterWork> btw, when you manage to find the time for it, don't forget https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/xubuntu-docs/xubuntu-docs/+merge/212038, knome 
<slickymasterWork> and thanks ;)
<elfy> hi slickymasterWork 
<knome> ah
<slickymasterWork> morning elfy 
<slickymasterWork> elfy: replied to your QA "survey" in the ML
<knome> text conflict :|
<knome> amagad
<slickymasterWork> knome: in my MP?
<knome> yep, but resolved
<knome> fortunately it wasn't in the portugues parts ;)
<slickymasterWork> good
<slickymasterWork> thanks knome 
<slickymasterWork> and also for the poedit tip, it's really faster to work with
<knome> yep, np
 * Unit193 recommends you change it to prefer UTF-8 if you haven't.
 * slickymasterWork is grateful for the hint but has already change it
<Unit193> Thought you might. \o/
<slickymasterWork> ;)
<elfy> slickymasterWork: yep - saw that - replied to your reply :)
<slickymasterWork> hopefully not bashing me :)
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> brainwash: please link bugreports like that one to the xubuntu-t-bugs blueprint
<ochosi> (i've done it already for this one, but for the future)
<brainwash> I did plan to
<brainwash> after actually verifying the bug
<brainwash> ochosi: screenshot was made for an ibus report, but the xfdesktop label bug is back
<brainwash> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/170227445/German_Belgian.png
<ochosi> xfdesktop label bug?
<brainwash> bug 1270261
<ubottu> bug 1270261 in xfdesktop "Desktop items have background" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270261
<brainwash> I feel like re-opening this report, but filing a new one would be a better idea, or?
<ochosi> i see
<brainwash> already re-opened the upstream report
<ochosi> i'd just reopen the existing launchpad report
<brainwash> ok
<brainwash> so, can you confirm the memory leak when switching wallpapers?
<ochosi> haven't had time to check yet
<brainwash> elfy: bug 1294209
<ubottu> bug 1294209 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Deleting files from desktop freezes machine for short period" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294209
<brainwash> vm or normal installation?
<brainwash> and/or live mode
<elfy> unfortunately this one - I was just reminded of it :|
<brainwash> looks like classic timeout issue (blocking)
<elfy> might well be - but what it is - is new to me :)
<brainwash> can you upload your ~/.cache/upstart/startxfce4.log please
<brainwash> moreover, if you delete files from the desktop directly, shouldn't the report target xfdesktop4? :)
<elfy> yea probably should :)
<elfy> it does ;)
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> the log file might contain some hints, other than that, it's a very strange issue
<brainwash> if it freezes the whole machine
<elfy> nothing in the logs - I can see nothing after the last thing mentioned in the logs - I know when I deleted and the last thing in the logs I did prior to deleting
<elfy> yep - it just freezes - can't move to a different workspace or anything - nothing responds at all 
<brainwash> what about switching to a virtual console?
<elfy> not tried that
<brainwash> and also take a look at /var/log/dmesg and/or /var/log/syslog
<elfy> it is very much like the thunar slow at first start issue 
<elfy> but affects everything not just thunar :)
<elfy> nothing in logs in /var
<elfy> this bug ties up with the last thunar update timing wise - which was ali1234's side pane fix I think
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> sadly I cannot confirm this problem
<elfy> I doubt if we'll manage to get anyone to do that - I suspect that as soon as I've got a clean install it'll disappear
<brainwash> the magical power of a clean install :)
<elfy> :)
<Unit193> Well, thunar does have a -dbg package. :P
<elfy> though that said I do plan to keep this one hanging about this time
<ochosi> jjfrv8: can you please check (and approve) this merge-request? https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/whiskermenu_defaults/+merge/211714
<ochosi> jjfrv8: we just need an ack wrt docs, i don't think this MR should be a problem though anyway but micah asked for it
<slickymasterWork> knome: you around?
<slickymasterWork> knome: there's something wrong with the xubuntu_ubiquity-slideshow.po files. At least with the _pt.po one
<slickymasterWork> the issue relates with ochosi text to the "Make the desktop your own" slide, which isn't present in the file. Currently instead of said text it's still showing just the word "Stuff" as we had before ochosi made the text
<jhenke> hi guys
<jhenke> little off topic question for English native speakers: Does the word guys include women as well in general, or is it understood as men only? I have seen both uses and would like to know what native speakers think about it.
<slickymasterWork> jhenke: for off topic questions there's the #xubuntu-offtopic channel
<holstein> jhenke: it can be both.. but, it can be considered not-ok
<holstein> jhenke: depends on the context.. if its a professional item, "guys" for both gender wouldnt likely be acceptable
<holstein> "folks" could be a little less formal and work for both.. otherwise "ladies and gentlemen" 
<jhenke> holstein thanks
<jhenke> slickymasterWork I did not intend to start a lengthly discussion, it was just a quick question
<slickymasterWork> coll jhenke, no problem ;)
<Unit193> jhenke: It's generally men and women, but would be strange when only women are present.
<elfy> jhenke: I would use guys for men - my 14 year old daughter and her friends use it interchangeably 
<Unit193> Him/he is supposed to be used for an unknown entity, though it's harder.  Them/they is wrong though since it means more than one person.
<jhenke> thanks for the input, I'll try to get used to folks as a replacement then, as it seems more safe
<elfy> jhenke: really depends what the context is to be honest 
<elfy> aah I see holstein said that already :)
<jhenke> elfy isn't that valid for every langauge and all phrases?
<jhenke> :)
<elfy> yep 
<elfy> but I only speak two languages English and Hampshire
<elfy> Hampshire being almost exactly the same as English but with only one H
<Unit193> Gibberish and English.
<elfy> 3 languages ... 
<jhenke> I see, yes English as mother tongue makes it tempting to not learn any other language
<elfy> unfortunately
<elfy> jhenke: you really should join the -offtopic channel - dev stuff gets talked in there too 
<elfy> I would say mostly by Unit193, but knome is good too :p
<jhenke> sorry for that, it really wasn't my intention
<elfy> it's ok :)
<jhenke> I really had the one question and a simple yes or no would have been enough
<elfy> indeed - but as you found out - we will jabber :)
<slickymasterWork> brainwash, https://bugs.launchpad.net/thunar/+bug/1159724
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1159724 in evince (Ubuntu) "Evince Error setting extended attribute 'xdg.origin.url' while saving a duplicate" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<Unit193> Meh, when I'm doing "devel" stuff there, it's normally crap devel stuff.
<ochosi> Unit193: could you help with packaging a patch for xfce4-settings?
<Unit193> What do you mean by help?
<ochosi> well, add it to the package and subscribe the sponsors to the MR
<ochosi> Unit193: this would be the collected bugreport: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1289411
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1289411 in xfce4-settings "Help button doesn't open online help" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ochosi> and the patch is here: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10740
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10740 in Settings Manager "Add support for versioned help desktop files" [Normal,New]
<ochosi> please! (and thank you)
<slickymasterWork> ochosi: +1
<Unit193> Hmmm.
<brainwash> Noskcaj: please re-open bug 1270261, I already changed the status of the upstream report
<ubottu> bug 1270261 in xfdesktop "Desktop items have background" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270261
<brainwash> it's a regression
<Noskcaj> ok. so tag regression-release ?
<brainwash> I guess so
<brainwash> and change "fix released" to "confirmed"
<Noskcaj> done
<brainwash> thanks :)
<brainwash> ali1234: if a window is not resizable, should it allow to be maximized?
<ochosi> still haven't given up on that, eh? :)
<brainwash> ochosi: no, every time I open a dialog window and see the unnecessary maximize button I start to wonder
<ochosi> hehe
<brainwash> but fixing this means learning about the standards and so on
<brainwash> and it needs to be tested with some test cases
<brainwash> so no one complains if a fix will be accepted upstream
<brainwash> when
<Noskcaj> I'm looking into making an abiword upload. Should i just try and cherry pick patches or package the whole upstream stable branch (is bugfixes only)
<ochosi> i guess the question is whether it has been tested at all?
<ochosi> or: have you tested it with the patches?
<brainwash> it will be tested :P
<brainwash> what is the debian policy?
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Pickup xfce4-session too. :P
<Noskcaj> Unit193, As in 4.11 or some bugfixes that need adding?
<ochosi> session?
<Unit193> Settings, session, same thing.
<ali1234> brainwash: there is no standard
<ochosi> Noskcaj: Unit193 just wants to run away from something i asked him for (xfce4-settings patch from upstream to fix the help buttons: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1289411 )
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1289411 in xfce4-settings "Help button doesn't open online help" [Medium,Confirmed]
<Unit193> Of course I do, merges.
<brainwash> and libxfce4ui?
<Noskcaj> I'll do the packaging for setting now then, i'll fix bug 1260341 there too
<ubottu> bug 1260341 in xfce4-settings (Ubuntu) "Tapping lower-right corner of touchpad causes a right-click" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1260341
<brainwash> ^ shouldn't be set to 'high'
<brainwash> and no one actually tested my patch
<ochosi> Noskcaj: while i like the hands-on "let's fix stuff" approach, please don't include patches that haven't had testing (the last commentor on that bugreport even said he can't reproduce the issue anymore...)
<Noskcaj> ochosi, yep. I wasn't going to package it after i saw brainwash's comment
<ochosi> ok :)
<brainwash> but please lower the importance level
<Noskcaj> The abiword maintainer thinks it's stupid that ubuntu has 3.0, suggests we revert to the current stable release
<brainwash> which isn't 3.0?
<Noskcaj> nope, 3.0 is an experimental release
<Unit193> Came because of a sync from Debian.
<Noskcaj> stable is 2.8.6, developement is 2.9.4, experimental is 3.0.0
<brainwash> saucy already shipped with a svn snapshot of version 3.0
<brainwash> and it's only abiword after all
<Unit193> http://packages.qa.debian.org/a/abiword.html
<brainwash> ali1234: ok, so I'll provide a patch and hope that it gets accepted
<Noskcaj> xfce4-settings Merge Request is up
<ochosi> thanks Noskcaj 
<knome> slickymaster, hmh.
<knome> slickymaster, there isn't the new string at all?
<slickymaster> no, just the "Stuff"
<slickymaster> I have evrything else translated besides that string
<knome> that's weird, because the new template should be in...
<knome> oh right
<knome> no po files updated
 * knome facepalms
<slickymaster> :P
<knome> slickymaster, open the .po file.
<knome> in poedit, that is
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> select catalog -> update from pot file
<slickymaster> ok
<knome> and select the pot file in the same directory
<knome> it updates the catalog with new translatable messages
<knome> i think launchpad might do that automatically.
<knome> or not.
<slickymaster> I'll have a MP in no time
<knome> sure
<knome> or you could try uploading it
<slickymaster> knome: do you mind terrible if I assign you as reviewer to merge it?
<knome> (if you have that option)
<knome> we could see if it was easier that way
<slickymaster> not sure if I have or not
<slickymaster> if not, what? I just upload it to ubiquity translations?
<knome> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu/pt/+translate
<knome> do you have an "Upload translation" button on that page?
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> ok, use that
<slickymaster> I'll use this process then
<knome> ok, great
<knome> let's see how that turns out
<slickymaster> knome: select catalog -> update from pot file
<slickymaster> didn't brought any new strings
<knome> hmm.
<slickymaster> can't I just pull the entire branch, copy the string from the slide, add it to the pot file and translate it?
<knome> ahh...
<knome> now i see it
<knome> it's obvious
<knome> this is why i was uncertain about translating now, now i remember it!
<slickymaster> to you probably :P
<knome> well,
<knome> we are translating the *ubuntu package*
<knome> not the main branch
<knome> and the new ubuntu package isn't uploaded yet
<knome> so there can't be a new translation template
<knome> (unless you download one from the main branch)
<knome> but i don't know how LP would treat the .po file if it had strings the template didn't
<knome> it would most probably just dismiss them
<slickymaster> can't I just branch it and get the pot file from there?
<knome> whether it was able to reuse those *when* the strings are available... i don't know
<knome> "Launchpad will only accept the .po file if it has the X-Exported-From-Launchpad header. That header is automatically added when you export a .po file from Launchpad."
<knome> technically, you could add that header...
<slickymaster> hmmm, the saner thing to do is to just wait until the new ubuntu package is uploaded
<knome> yes
<slickymaster> in the meanwhile the work is done. it's just a matter of copy/paste afterwards
<knome> it should happen on monday at latest
<slickymaster> okie dokie
<brainwash> ali1234: can we mark bug 1208681 as fixed?
<ubottu> bug 1208681 in thunar (Ubuntu) "PCManFM bookmarks are not being respected by other applications due to GTK 3.0" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208681
<slickymaster> brainwash: did you get to see bug 1159724
<ubottu> bug 1159724 in evince (Ubuntu) "Error setting extended attribute 'xdg.origin.url' while saving a duplicate" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1159724
<brainwash> not yet
<slickymaster> I come across it today just by chance and realize that it's not a evince bug but a thunar one
<slickymaster> I added an upstream bug report to it
<brainwash> you should have added "thunar (Debian)" to the Affects list
<slickymaster> will do
<brainwash> because it's the debian bug report
<brainwash> strange thing, you cannot change it afterwards
<brainwash> the distribution list appears to be magically limited
<slickymaster> yes, extremelly limited :p
<brainwash> so, did you try to reproduce it with a different file manager?
<slickymaster> no
<slickymaster> at the time I was also dealing with some issues on a database server at work
<slickymaster> didn't got a chance to
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-22
<brainwash> slickymaster: you should also add a comment and explain how you were able to reproduce the bug
<brainwash> it looks like we can blame file systems which don't support the fancy extended attributes
<slickymaster> ok brainwash 
<brainwash> slickymaster: is bug 1190299 still around?
<ubottu> bug 1190299 in thunar (Ubuntu) "thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_cast()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1190299
<brainwash> probably caused by thunar's tree view
<slickymaster> nopes brainwash 
<brainwash> can you please update the status of the report then
 * slickymaster can't even remember the steps that lead to that one
<brainwash> hit super+f? :D
<slickymaster> lol
<brainwash> we got so many thunar reports, a high percentage of them are segfaults :/
<slickymaster> do you mean to mark it as Invalid?
<brainwash> mark it as incomplete
<slickymaster> ok
<jjfrv8> ochosi, I hope I did what you requested correctly wrt to the whiskermen-defaults MR
<slickymaster> hey jjfrv8, how's everything?
<jjfrv8> slickymaster, okay here, thanks. how you?
<slickymaster> fine also :)
<jjfrv8> you've been burning the midnight oil a lot lately ;)
<slickymaster> nah, I'll leave that to Unit193 
<Unit193> (Midnight is early.)
<slickymaster> it's half an hour paste it over here
<Unit193> -e
<ochosi> thanks jjfrv8 
<jjfrv8> welcome. sorry it took so long
<ochosi> no worries really
<brainwash> ochosi: bug 1295900
<ubottu> bug 1295900 in xorg (Ubuntu) "lubuntu screen corruption only on cold boot." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295900
<brainwash> maybe related to our lightdm gtk greeter bug
<AussieDownUnder> Oi bros & hoes. When is some new ubuntu/xubuntu flyers coming out. I want to put some updated ones up & around the place.
<AussieDownUnder> Would like to see some flyers designed to be foldable to put in info board holder/pocket/pigeon hole things.
 * fibz_ pokes zequence: the image on the xubuntu.org homepage is a bit worrisome
<fibz_> take a look at the clock on all the new official screenshots?
<Noskcaj> Why doesn't xubuntu support internet time by default?
<Unit193> fibz_: Wow, alright.
<aussiehomebrewer> Anybody know the name of the bottom dockbar that was in the 14.04 pre-release? The one that got taken out
<ochosi> aussiehomebrewer: that was only another xfce panel
<ochosi> with a few launchers on it
<ochosi> just add a new panel, make it height 48px, add a few launchers and set it to autohide, that's it
<aussiehomebrewer> Fiiiine, let's do all the things that you want to do.
<aussiehomebrewer> Nah cheers, I can't believe I didn't work that out myself
<aussiehomebrewer> Everyday I learn how much I don't know or how intelligent I'm not
<aussiehomebrewer> Is there anyway to change a live usb to allow the live sessions to be saved? I know when I made the live usb it gave me an option for setting a size for saving the session data but I said no
<ali1234> just make it again
<aussiehomebrewer> Yeah, I'll have to once the full release is out anyway
<ali1234> anyway, the answer is no because it modifies the partitions before writing them if you ask for session saving
<ochosi> brainwash: don't think that bug is related to ours, ours only happened with nouveau afaik
<ochosi> anything is possible with graphics drivers though...
<forestpiskie> ochosi: I don't see the corruption with nvidia installed
<ochosi> yeah, me neither
<ochosi> it's a nouveau-specific issue
<forestpiskie> yep
<ochosi> the bug is even still assigned to nouveau :)
<forestpiskie> :)
<ochosi> anyway, taking off for the day
<elfy> have a good one - I've just got up :)
<elfy> knome: just followed fibz clue to look at the screenshots at xubuntu.org - did you know that Friday gets shortened to Sex ... 
<zoidberg_> hi there
<elfy> hello
<zoidberg_> i have experienced something strange when updating to 14.04 beta
<zoidberg_> i had the network-manager deinstalled, and wicd installed. After the update something was disabling my wifi via rfkill soft-block, i solved this problem by installing the network manager again and deinstalling wicd, i'm not sure what caused the problem, i believe that it has something todo with the Network Manager, and not really with wicd.
<elfy> njo idea I'm afraid 
<zoidberg_> because with disabled wicd and only wpa_supplicant it didn't work and with wicd disabled and airmon it didn't work
<zoidberg_> hm maybe i should write a bug report... i thought maybe someone would know that issue, making the writing of a bug report unnecessary :-)
<brainwash> zoidberg_: I suggest that you also ask in #ubuntu+1
<elfy> if someone knew then it would be a bug and then we'd know :)
<elfy> brainwash: +1 to that
<brainwash> Tumblerdwatcher v 1.0 - http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=8722
<brainwash> what the heck
<brainwash> but it's true, tumbler isn't working properly sometimes
<brainwash> eating memory, segfaulting,..
<brainwash> ochosi: what do you think, should add more debugging output to the greeter?
<brainwash> for future releases
<brainwash> it won't hurt
<knome> elfy, yes...
<elfy> ok :)
<knome> we will replace them for T
<knome> so i don't think it's a huge problem
<elfy> okey doke
<elfy> I'd not noticed myself
<starrats> Hello everyone and good morning!
<pleia2> good morning
<knome> elfy, pleia2: do we want to write a spec of what kind of screenshots we want for T on the website so we don't need to do that on the rush?
<starrats> I had to send a bug report to ubuntu-bug on terminal about 30 minutes ago concerning a software.db.update, the output told me to file a bug report so I did.
<brainwash> starrats: that's a known warning, it pops up every time the software center package is upgraded
<brainwash> thanks for your report, I'll try to find the initial report
<elfy> knome: possibly would be an idea - though on the other hand, simple, uncluttered, whatever cc licence doesn't appear to me to be requiring one
<knome> mmh
<knome> bbl
<starrats> brainwash I got an email from the ubuntu bug report folks, can't remember his name but he said it wasd a 'regression' and the initial bug report # is 1161283 or at least that was on the email.
<brainwash> starrats: yes, it was me who replied to your report :)
<starrats> aah so you are .....lol can't remember 
<starrats> okay thank you
<brainwash> if you open the linked report and read the latest comments, you will see that more people noticed this warning while upgrading packages in trusty
<starrats> so it's a 'normal' thing/error that shows up?
<starrats> ah okay brainwash
<brainwash> no, the warning should not appear anymore, but strangely it does in trusty
<starrats> ah okay but it show up and I did what it said to do.  What should I do if it shows up again when I do my update/upgrades?
<brainwash> check the linked report for bug status changes
<brainwash> and comments
<starrats> ah okay will do
<brainwash> in the meantime just ignore this warning
<starrats> okay will do
<starrats> read some of te comments earlier and just a few minutes ago, so I understand
<brainwash> Noskcaj: please change the importance level to 'wishlist' bug 782549
<ubottu> bug 782549 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "Workspace switcher background is not transparent" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/782549
<Noskcaj> brainwash, You really need some triage rights
<brainwash> and you need upload rights :P
<brainwash> joking :D
<brainwash> I really should write the application
<Noskcaj> brainwash, DON'T EVEN!
<Noskcaj> ;)
<Noskcaj> but yeah, bug triage is pretty easy to get
<brainwash> I'm just afraid of seeing all the hidden/private reports
<Noskcaj> brainwash, in xfce there's not that many
<brainwash> there are so many lp bug reports, even more on the Xfce bug tracker
<brainwash> it somehow feels like development is slowing down
<brainwash> Noskcaj: so, do you plan to also patch libxfce4ui?
<brainwash> to fix the help button is applications like thunar
<Noskcaj> I forgot about that one, doing now
<brainwash> great
<Noskcaj> brainwash, Could you try and find which packages use xfce_dialog_show_help_with_version() ? bug 1289755 says they will need rebuilding
<ubottu> bug 1289755 in libxfce4ui (Ubuntu) "Wrong shlibs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1289755
<brainwash> mmh
<brainwash> should be quite a few packages
<brainwash> oh, that's the new function
<brainwash> Noskcaj: so packages which use the new function and were built before the latest libxfce4ui package update?
<Noskcaj> yeah
<Noskcaj> if there are any
<brainwash> not quite sure how to find those =S
<Noskcaj> ok
<Noskcaj> Don't worry then
<brainwash> apt-get source all packages and grep? :D
<brainwash> I should avoid using "dh_shlibdeps --dpkg-shlibdeps-params=--ignore-missing-info" for my PPA builds, or?
<brainwash> adding this seems to be any easy way to avoid build aborts
<Noskcaj> mr_pouit, Since you fixed the bug, any idea what needs rebuilding?
<Noskcaj> brainwash, when possible, stick to what ubuntu has for PPAs
<brainwash> what ubuntu has for PPAs? I don't quite understand this
<brainwash> I am trying to set up a daily ppa for Xfce packages, well, I was trying to
<Noskcaj> brainwash, i mean, when possible, use the same packaging as ubuntu does
<brainwash> I do
<brainwash> I copied the debian folder from the ubuntu package
<brainwash> and I've added extra stuff until it finally built successfully 
<brainwash> :)
<brainwash> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+junk/xfwm4-debian/view/head:/debian/rules
<brainwash> so I had to add the "override_dh_shlibdeps", but I assume that this is just a bad way of handling the actual problem
<Noskcaj> I'm not to well versed with shlibs (i know nothing about C), but that override doesn't look too good
<brainwash> ok, I'll try to resolve this properly before building more packages
<brainwash> Unit193: bug 1296058
<ubottu> bug 1296058 in lubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Lubuntu 14.04 Live lock out users" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296058
<brainwash> light-locker is disabled for xuubntu's live mode now, where can I find that change?
#xubuntu-devel 2014-03-23
<Unit193> Well I know, but I can't tell him now..
<knome> Unit193, tell who?
<Unit193> I had a ping.
<dkessel> Good morning.
<dkessel> Has anybody else gotten two battery indicators? I have the unity power indicator plus xfce4-power-manager. This did not happen on Friday...
<brainwash> dkessel: hey, the power manager one should be hidden
<brainwash> but I think that the updated xubuntu-default-settings package still needs to be uploaded
<dkessel> brainwash: ok , that should change it?
<brainwash> I hope so
<dkessel> I'll keep an eye on it
<brainwash> bluesabre0: why did you remove xubuntu-default-settings from the affects list? bug 1281323
<ubottu> bug 1281323 in Lubuntu default settings "Live lubuntu seisson locks when away from keyboard" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1281323
<brainwash> dkessel: you can check bug 1295864 for status updates
<ubottu> bug 1295864 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] Add default settings and favorites to whiskermenu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295864
<elfy> brainwash: appears that the odd deleting bug I had has gone
<brainwash> elfy: mark it as incomplete and remove it from the -bugs blueprint?
<elfy> not yet - it only appears to have gone :)
<knome> anybody can come up with a reason why we need https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop
<knome> it doesn't have bugs traker, support issues tracked, translations tracker, branches specified, it has no announcements, it specifies no exact license...
<knome> it basically only points people to the home page, wiki, screenshots and the downloads page
<elfy> ask cody somerville why he set it up?
<brainwash> I like that page
<elfy> certainly appears to be a nothingness
<knome> it appears to be user-facing communication in a developer platform
<knome> ...which can be good
<knome> but not if it says the development focus is natty series
<knome> brainwash, why do you specifically like that page?
<brainwash> it's like a minimal version of the actual xubuntu homepage
<knome> like, a very minimal
<brainwash> with informative text and links
<knome> it only has the description text that can be useful
<knome> and the links
<knome> the rest of the page is useless information
<knome> which can most definitely confuse people
<brainwash> other flavors don't have this page (-desktop)
<knome> apparently it is the "upstream" project for xubuntu-meta and xubuntu-system-tools packages
<knome> but that's not a useful thing
<elfy> don't tell ali then - or there will be 500 u-gnome ones by the end of the day :p
<brainwash> xubuntu-system-tools? o.o
<knome_> 12:46  knome: yeah, i don't know
<knome_> some ancient package from 2009 i guess
<brainwash> so no one will miss that page
<brainwash> if it is redundant
<knome> if not else, i'm cleaning it up now
<knome> "top contributors"
<knome> ehh....
<knome> who *is* jeb. e? :)
<knome> or petar sredojevic?
<knome> i know who gunnar is, but he's not involved with xubuntu
<knome> mhm, xubuntu-meta is actually at lp:ubuntu/xubuntu-meta
<knome> the page is a bit cleaner now
<knome> will continue investigations later
<bluesabre0> brainwash: poke
<brainwash> bluesabre0: hey
<bluesabre0> hey, I removed it from affecting xubuntu because we fixed it in xubuntu
<bluesabre0> we removed light-locker from autostart by shipping an empty autostart entry on live
<brainwash> why not leave it there and change the status to "fix released"?
<brainwash> yes, the lubuntu guys need the exact same fix
<knome> can agree marking as "fix released" would be better than marking unaffected ;)
<bluesabre0> good question, I feel like I had a good reason back then :\
<bluesabre0> maybe because the issue was with xubuntu-live-settings or something
<knome> bluesabre0, retarget?
<bluesabre0> yeah, I'll do so now
<knome> Unit193, do we still try to get the translator attribution in for trusty, or should we postpone it for a point release?
<knome> Unit193, looks like there are other things for that as well, so...
<brainwash> bluesabre0: -default-settings builds -live-settings
 * bluesabre0 doesn't like those packages
<bluesabre0> xubuntu-meta -> xubuntu-default-settings -> xubuntu-live-settings
<knome> :P
<knome> guests coming any minute now, bbl
<bluesabre0> there
<brainwash> dkessel: I've checked again and the change already has landed in trusty, but it won't take effect if you have a custom power manager config file
<dkessel> brainwash: oh OK that might have been the case.
<brainwash> ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-power-manager.xml
<dkessel> bbl lunch...
<brainwash> rename the config file and restart the session
<brainwash> ok
<dkessel> Yup, that worked
<brainwash> dkessel: thanks for testing, sadly this little problem will affect users who upgrade from a previous release
<brainwash> not all of them, but the ones who already have a user config file for the power-manager (which overrides the global config)
<dkessel> brainwash: what was the general idea here? To replace xfce's power manager icon with the ubuntu default? Is there no way of globally disabling xfce's pm on upgrade? Or is it still required for something?
<brainwash> dkessel: xfce4-power-manager is still running in the background, but we decided to use unity's indicator instead (which now also opens xfpm if running)
<brainwash> and xfpm checks for a user config file first
<brainwash> but we can only adjust the global config file
<dkessel> Ah OK... So we only switched that part of the UI. Hm patch xfpm to not start the tray icon anymore if indicator-power is installed?
<brainwash> adding some hack to xfpm could resolve this
<brainwash> file a bug report and maybe we'll address this issue
<brainwash> however, the problem is that hacks are usually not easily accepted
<brainwash> and altering files in the user folder via the package install routine is a no-go too
<pleia2> 95 xubuntu-devel moderator request(s) waiting
<pleia2> gah
<pleia2> usually there are like.. 2
<elfy> ... 
<elfy> I'll turn off thunderbird then :p
<elfy> the fc list gets about 40 a week 
<ochosi> hey everyone
<brainwash> ochosi: hello
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<brainwash> elfy: any news regarding the ibus keyboard layout mess?
<brainwash> telling people to simply delete ibus is a bad solution
<elfy> only that it seems to be a regression 
<brainwash> so there is hope for a fix :)
<elfy> I know it is not a good solution - but then installing something that breaks this isn't good either :p
<elfy> I hope so brainwash 
<ochosi> yeah, i'm wondering whether we should consider dropping it form our seed...
<elfy> ochosi: mmm - trouble is can we add it back when it's fixed? 
<elfy> I don't know the answer to that
<ochosi> i dunno whether it's really needed by default
<brainwash> only problem is, many people rely on it
<ochosi> i've personally never used this (this doesn't mean it's not needed, but that i don't know)
<elfy> brainwash: then they'd want one that's not broken :)
<brainwash> it's not broken if you configure it, or?
<ochosi> has anyone gotten in touch with the ibus maintainers?
<elfy> ochosi: I've not
<elfy> brainwash: why should you have to configure it? 
<elfy> in my opinion - I set up the system when I install with a suitable keyboard layout - I shouldn't have to do anymore than that
<brainwash> I mean if you need to switch between different kb layouts, you could configure it, so that it works
<ochosi> yeah, but there are alternatives to that
<brainwash> so we should deactivate the autostart entry
<ochosi> e.g. the xfce4-keyboard-plugin
<brainwash> yes
<ochosi> yeah, deactivating the autostart entry would be a workaround i could live with
<ochosi> but in the long run it'd be nice to re-consider whether we really need it on a default install
<brainwash> does the panel plugin allow switching via kb shortcut?
<ochosi> or whether there are even better solutions for it
<ochosi> yeah, i think you can set it up to do that
<ochosi> to the worst you can bind an xfconf-query command ;)
<ochosi> (also: is this a functionality you consider essential to layout-switching?)
<brainwash> yes
<brainwash> switching via kb shortcut is widely used
<brainwash> when chatting for example
<ochosi> what do you base that "widely used" on? :)
<brainwash> just my observations
<brainwash> asian people for example
<brainwash> or russian ones
<ochosi> could you point these folks to translating light-locker?
<brainwash> :D
<brainwash> light-locker needs translation?
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> and chinese and russian are still not complete/up-to-date
<brainwash> ah, the lock screen
<brainwash> with the big lock icon
<ochosi> nah, it's more than that
<ochosi> commandline-options etc
<ochosi> ~12strings
<brainwash> we could use google translate
<ochosi> no
<ochosi> that just creates a mess
<brainwash> sadly I don't know anyone I could ask
<ochosi> so who are those misterious asians and russians you quoted earlier? :)
<brainwash> gaming related, so they don't actually use ubuntu
<brainwash> what about asking in the local ubuntu channels, like #ubuntu-ru ?
<elfy> ochosi: I could live with us deactivating autostart for it
<ochosi> micahg: reminder about the merge-requests
<ochosi> knome: what do you thnk about disabling ibus autostart by default in 14.04? from what i can tell it seems to have a regression (changes kb-layout on login) that causes the bug elfy reported a longer while ago already
<ochosi> i'm mostly asking cause this would most likely also go in x-d-s
<ochosi> (i guess elfy can tell you more about it if necessary as i'm running out now)
<starrats> hello folks I just sent in another bug report, didn't want too but this one warranted it.  Problems with start up cursor is still freezing at password window, it's been real good for me until gthe last two days and all of a sudden it is freezing again. the cursor.
<brainwash> starrats: hey
<brainwash> little 'lightdm' window?
<brainwash> you mean the login box on the login screen, correct?
<starrats> yes the logon /password window
<starrats> not the little 'lightdm' window
<starrats> sorry
<brainwash> does the keyboard also stop responding?
<starrats> yes
<brainwash> can you switch to a virtual console (ctrl + alt + F1)?
<starrats> I move my finger on the touchpad/mousepad and sometimes I have a 'free' cursor and sometimes nothing and no keys will operate to unfreeze the cursor
<starrats> never tried that combo of keys
<brainwash> you can switch back with ctrl + alt + F7
<starrats> did not know that combo of keys
<brainwash> it is a simple test to check, if the whole system is frozen
<starrats> ah okay next time I'll try these two combo's
<starrats> thanks brainwash
<starrats> if the system is frozen?
<starrats> hard crash/ turn off 
<starrats> I mean hard shutdown
<brainwash> starrats: try to reboot your system in a cleaner way, see http://fosswire.com/post/2007/09/fix-a-frozen-system-with-the-magic-sysrq-keys/
<starrats> thank you brainwash, I know a hardshut down is not good.  i read and copied the info concerning alt + SYSRQ keys and then typing in REISUB, question does that have to be in caps?
<starrats> the reason I ask is that the link you shared showed that 'word' in caps.
<brainwash> no caps needed
<starrats> ah okay cool
<brainwash> you can also skip the first 3 letter, because they are ignored on ubuntu systems
<brainwash> but that's not important
<starrats> so just sub?
<brainwash> nah, use reisub
<starrats> ah okay
<starrats> thank you again for all your help
<brainwash> you're welcome
<brainwash> one more thing, you should attach log files to your report
<starrats> log files in the bug report?
<brainwash> yes, for example /var/log/syslog and /var/log/Xorg.0.log + /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
<starrats> ah okay
<brainwash> after your system has frozen again and you have performed a reboot
<starrats> those didn't 'pop-up on term when I was finally able to type my password to get on I went to the term and typed in 'ubuntu'bug' and prceeded from there.
<starrats> ah okay
<starrats> though when i did type in 'ubuntu-bug in term I did get an output that startedcv with WARNING... 
<brainwash> so your frozen system recovers without reboot?
<starrats> no I do the hard shutdown and try to logon on again, that was 4 times today, I hate hard shutdowns
<starrats> to reboot
<brainwash> alright
<starrats> the 4 times were back to back
<olbi> hi guys, why daily iso doesnt have actually lang files from launchpad? and why translation from transifex isn't updated for Xfce? :/
<olbi> I want to check and fix this but can't :/
<knome> for which package specifically?
<olbi> xubuntu installer slideshow
<knome> that's pending a new release
<knome> translations will land on the non-language-pack freeze day at latest
<knome> for what comes to transifex... i doubt there are automatical imports
<olbi> that isn't cause I do changes 7 days ago and it doesn't go to update files in 14.04, for example Thunar 1.6.3
<knome> it is...
<knome> translations made in launchpad or transifex do not magically get moved to the archive
<knome> the bzr branches in launchpad are updated automatically, but packages aren't build from them automatically
<ochosi> hm, we should still set some sane defaults for the X11 screensaver timeouts in xubuntu...
<ochosi> (currently 10mins)
<brainwash> 10mins is not sane?
<ochosi> seems a bit short
<ochosi> well otoh now that we have l-l-s by default it's easily configurable
<brainwash> but it's the widely used default value
<ochosi> so less of a headache
<brainwash> exactly
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-16
<Unit193> libxfce4ui 4.12.1 and xfwm4 4.12.1 in exp, as well as xfce4-xkb-plugin 1:0.7.1-1.
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks
<bluesabre> working on syncs and merges now
<Unit193> Oh yey.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything I can help with?
<bluesabre> Unit193: you can do some merges if you want
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> Noskcaj, Unit193 gtk2-engines-xfce is not in the xubuntu packageset
<Unit193> Didn't think it was.
<bluesabre> I know, I think Noskcaj may have asked me to sync it earlier though
<bluesabre> so, not something I can sync :)
<bluesabre> same for the xfce package
<Unit193> But you can with orage.
<Unit193> -dict is unreleased in svn.
<bluesabre> cool
<bluesabre> doing places plugin now
<Unit193> Stinks, because as I said thunar-dropbox-plugin is in Debian and is a bugfix, but you can't sync it. :P
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> will send an email this week to get us an xfce packageset
<bluesabre> finally
<Unit193> You looking at xfce412.html too?  Well, some of these make sense to have in the Xubuntu packageset, even if we don't ship them.  (xfdash, thunar-dropbox, xfce4-pulse, etc)
<bluesabre> the xubuntu packageset is generated by a script from our seed
<bluesabre> so when we add apps, we get to upload them (usually), but we also lose upload rights for things we drop
<bluesabre> that why we need a separate packageset :)
<bluesabre> and yes, I also refer to that page
<Unit193> Sure, but those aren't exactly Xfce, but meh.
<Unit193> Heh, alrighty.
<bluesabre> close enough
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> pkg-xfce++
<Unit193> Right, but neither of us are in that, and I don't think the packages will be. :P
<knome> bluesabre, ping
<bluesabre> knome: whats up?
<knome> private matters
<knome> ;)
<bluesabre> byw
<bluesabre> *bye
<bluesabre> :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: What have you done so far?  What's left?
<bluesabre> Unit193: for uploads? orage, xfce4-places-plugin, xfce4-weather-plugin uploaded
<knome> bluesabre, see PM..
<bluesabre> Unit193: do we anticipate debian to pick up the new xfwm4 in the next few days?
<Unit193> xfwm4 4.12.1?  Already hit exp.
<bluesabre> 4.12.2, landed today
<Unit193> Meh, right.  -announce not being used?
<bluesabre> dunno
<knome> Unit193, drop .1 off your hands, it's almost rotten already!!
<bluesabre> NEWS also wasnt updated
<bluesabre> not sure whats up there
<Unit193> Nothing recently hit -announce.
<bluesabre> I'll package everything else
<bluesabre> merging thunar now
<Unit193> I got screenshooter. :D
<bluesabre> cool
<Unit193> thunar-archive-plugin, xfce4-xkb-plugin are up on Debian too.
<bluesabre> nice
<Unit193> Mmmm, only second one is in exp, first just in svn.
<bluesabre> second one not showing yet on package.d
<bluesabre> usually syncpackage won't see it until it shows there
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfce4-xkb-plugin/news/20150315T215239Z.html
<bluesabre> https://packages.debian.org/source/experimental/xfce4-xkb-plugin
 * bluesabre shrugs
<Unit193> ...And xfdesktop4 done.
 * bluesabre stops working on laundry to catch up
<Unit193> That might be important, I washed sheets yesterday though. :P
<Unit193> Xfwm4 is a bigger jump, and far past FF...
<bluesabre> haven't checked that one yet
<bluesabre> Unit193: btw, why do we recommend udisks2 and debian does not?
<Unit193>     - debian/control: recommend udisks2 for mounting devices. lp: #1014632
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1014632 in thunar (Ubuntu) "Drives/partitions not showing in left pane" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014632
<bluesabre> awww, don't pull it from the debian changelog :(
 * bluesabre looks bad now
<Unit193> Debian #719183  That I didn't get from there.
<ubottu> Debian bug 719183 in thunar "thunar: Depend on udisks2" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/719183
<bluesabre> any benefit to our running dh-autoreconf over xdt-autogen?
 * bluesabre checks debian changelog
 * bluesabre sees     - Use dh-autoreconf and xdt-autogen to update libtool.m4 for new ports.
<Unit193> Meh, not that much.  Give me a sec though.
<Unit193> New question, does thunar need udisks2?
 * bluesabre doesn't know much about thunar
<Unit193> grep udisk * -Ri  only got me stuff in debian/
<Unit193> I think that delta could be dropped, but considering when we are in the cycle, how about not.
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> I think I'll keep udisks2, drop the rest of the delta
<Unit193> Next cycle we should try it without. :D
<bluesabre> :)
<knome> off for now
<knome> see you later
<bluesabre> seeya knome
<Unit193> Welp, considering I don't think we gain much from merging much else now, guess all that's left is to check if xfwm4 is actually released, and qualifies...
<Unit193> (What, past FF and UIF now?  Hrm..)
<Unit193> The other two are in /source/
<bluesabre> thanks
<bluesabre> I'll upload thunar once I've tested it in a few
<bluesabre> and I'll take care of those two as well
<bluesabre> and be in bed by 11pm, woo
<bluesabre> :D
<Unit193> Wife cranky? ;)
<bluesabre> nah
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> we sort-of have permission to add any missed xfce-4.12 components to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-places-plugin/+bug/1424887
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1424887 in xfce4 (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Xfce 4.12 for Vivid" [Undecided,Triaged]
<bluesabre> as I did with places-plugin a moment ago
<bluesabre> I like syncing things now as we can so wombat starts off easier :)
<bluesabre> also not looking forward to reading through bug mail
 * bluesabre knows its piling up
<Unit193> Bleh.  Well at least whisker will close 2 or 3 LP reports.
<bluesabre> yeah, might not be able to do whisker though
<bluesabre> 1.5 is a UI change
<bluesabre> and we just finished our slides
<Unit193> Too bad I can't requestsync for wombat yet. :P
<Unit193> Yeah, I wouldn't for sure.
<Unit193> FWIW, -dict is only one actual bug fix, rest is build fixes.
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: thanks a bunch for the upload work! yeah, that latest xfwm4 release is a bit whacky :) however, i won't start complaining about too many xfce releases happening ;)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Actually, to sync xfce4-screenshooter should be A-OK.
<Unit193> s/should be/is/
<Unit193> ochosi: Hello.
<ochosi> hey there
<elfy> morning all 
<ochosi> hey there
<elfy> hi ochosi 
<ochosi> i'll re-schedule the meeting that didn't take place last week this week
<ochosi> any time that would be good for you particularly?
<elfy> post 1700 for me - but not sure any pressing need for me to be present currently, so ... 
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> i'll ask bluesabre later and we'll see
<elfy> yep ok:)
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, do you have upload rights for eyes-plugin? We may as well get the bugfix release for it in if we can
<Unit193> He doesn't.
<bluesabre> brainwash: I think you saw this before, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/1432271
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1432271 in abiword (Ubuntu) "[vivid] Abiword always starts after logging in" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brainvvash> bluesabre, yea, I've mentioned it like 2 months ago
<bluesabre> want to comment on that bug with your findings? it was something with empathy or some plugin
<brainvvash> oh, you remember more about this than I do
<brainvvash> empathy.. yes, I'll have to check my config files
<brainvvash> or the irc backlog :D
<ochosi> bluesabre: still around?
<knome> ochosi, saw my PM?
<ochosi> yup, haven't had time to read up on it
<ochosi> was out all day and just returned
<knome> good enough
<knome> :)
<ochosi> read and commented
<ochosi> even amended
<knome> hehe
<knome> yeah, that was there...
<flexiondotorg_> Hi guys.
<flexiondotorg_> Anyone here tried a daily iso today?
<elfy> not yet - I will be though
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, The Ubuntu MATE ones are not making it to Ubiquity. I've tested i386 and amd64.
<elfy> right - well I'd actually only look at anyone else's if mine were failing 
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, Exactly. I don't have any other favlours here right now. Not much bandwidth so seeking confirmation.
<elfy> yep - I can understand that 
<elfy> after our last hiccup - I can zsync anyone's image quite quikckly now :D
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, Yeah, I need to seed here so I can zsync every day.
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, I see an error on the console about pwconv not being able to set the permission of /etc/passwd- to 0600
<elfy> flexiondotorg_: ack that here too - just checking ubuntu
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, Thanks for confirming.
<elfy> welcome
<elfy> I'll check ubuntu then  go pingaling in release
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, OK. So #ubuntu-release is the correct place for this issue to be raised?
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, I also tested yesterdays images. Same issue.
<elfy> it's the only place I know of - ubuntu is well up the swannee - that's still dated 6th
<flexiondotorg_> elfy, seb128 is chatting to me about this issue in #ubuntu-devel
<elfy> not going there ... 
<dkessel> krytarik: I approved your xubuntu-docs translation suggestions
<krytarik> dkessel: Thanks.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, can you please sync libxfce4ui?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, also, xfwm from http://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/x/xfwm4/xfwm4_4.12.1-1.dsc + http://pastebin.com/9AvZiShX is upload ready
<Unit193> I'd have either skipped and gone to .2, or waited for Debian to pull it in. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also I maaaay have gone overboard, in case you didn't notice I updated xfce412.html's generator again, adding not only listing all the core and apps, but panel-plugins too. :3
<Noskcaj> Unit193, the change from 4.12.2 is included in debian's 4.12.1 as a patch
<Noskcaj> so corsac didn't bother with 4.12.2
<Unit193> Makes sense.
<Unit193> Awwh, you used the 'Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers' one. :P
<bluesabre> ochosi: still around?
<ochosi> bluesabre: still around?
<bluesabre> ochosi: maybe
<ochosi> wooo, impossible :p
<knome> trololo
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> ochosi: whats up?
<ochosi> different things i guess :)
<ochosi> first of all, i wanted to make up for the meeting i set and then missed last week
<ochosi> so i wanted to check whether any particular time/day would be good for you
<bluesabre> before 1200 or after 2130 UTC on weekdays, pretty flexible on weekends
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> bluesabre: any idea what mips64el is?
<bluesabre> 64bit mips architecture?
<bluesabre> I used mips when learning assembly, not sure where its used otherwise
<bluesabre> still alive and kicking it seems, http://www.osnews.com/story/28395/MIPS_Creator_CI20_vs_Raspberry_Pi_2
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> well there was that parole bugreport
<ochosi> and another one about appdata
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> got some bugs to take care of it seems :)
<ochosi> just finished the xfpm port (finally!) today
<ochosi> so i can start to look into other things again
<ochosi> thought i was done a week ago already, but always tons of tiny things popping up...
<genii> bluesabre: That particular MIPS board is MIPS32, but there are some interesting 64bit ones around, primarily in server appliances
<ochosi> not sure parole is really server software :)
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> not much of a hardware guy these days
<ochosi> yeah, same here
<Unit193> bluesabre: In case you didn't see, someone (next cycle) should really hit up xfce4-time-out-plugin.
<bluesabre> Unit193: you mean upload or fix?
<Unit193> New upstream, Debian doesn't have this package.
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<Unit193> (Same for eyes for that matter.)
<bluesabre> how could they not want eyes in debian
<bluesabre> silly
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> especially when it created such media-buzz when 4.12 was released
<Unit193> RFP #407380
<bluesabre> #dddddd
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> http://i.imgur.com/NWa20Cn.png
<ochosi> hehe, nice
<ochosi> is that pidgin?
<bluesabre> seems to be part of weechat's web interface, glowing-bear
<Unit193> Well...
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-17
<bluesabre> Noskcaj: thanks for the merge
 * bluesabre wonders if xfce4-session 4.12.1 will land in exp today, since he needs to rebuild -session anyway it seems, https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-announce/2015-March/000401.html
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Have you experienced this? - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1426664
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1426664 in ubuntu-mate "14.04.2 LTS after booting to login page, get a white screen until i hit a mouse button" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<brainvvash> incompatible gtk theme?
<flexiondotorg> brainvvash, Interesting idea.
<ochosi> flexiondotorg: if you need hints, this is how we do it for the 2.0 version of the greeter (scroll back in git time to see what we had for 1.8 and below) https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/blob/master/gtk-3.0/apps/lightdm-gtk-greeter.css
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, I've tried several themes. Same issue with all of them.
<elfy> ochosi: just in case you happen across things - dailies are fubar - known issues with that
<flexiondotorg> elfy, https://bugs.launchpad.net/xserver-xorg-driver-vesa/+bug/1432899
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1432899 in xserver-xorg-driver-vesa (Ubuntu) "VESA error: Cannot read int vect" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<elfy> flexiondotorg: thanks
<flexiondotorg> elfy, Confirm that one ;)
<elfy> bbl
<ochosi> flexiondotorg: so it doesn't even work with greybird?
<ochosi> elfy: thanks! good to know
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, I'll test greybird.
<ochosi> well that's really the only theme you should test with :)
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, It is a bit limiting to have a themeable greeter that only work with one theme though ;)
<ochosi> hehe, well fix your themes then ;)
<ochosi> also, it *should* look ok by default without any theming
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, Numix doesn't work. Ambiance doesn't work.
<ochosi> numix should work too, it has pretty ok greeter support
<ochosi> so i guess the conclusion to draw from that is that it is not a theme issue
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, When I say Numix doesn't work.
<ochosi> yup
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, What I actually mean is the initial screen is white, clicking then repaints and you see a perfectly correct greeter.
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, Just a blank white screen. No decorations or anything.
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, And a mouse cursor.
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, Click and everything appears normal.
<ochosi> right, no clue what that could be, i've never seen anything like that before
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1426664
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1426664 in ubuntu-mate "14.04.2 LTS after booting to login page, get a white screen until i hit a mouse button" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, I've back ported lightdm-gtk-greeter to the Ubuntu MATE 14.04 PPA. Hence the reference to 14.04.
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, I've not actually seen it on Ubuntu MATE 15.04 (others have). But I can reproduce on my Arch Linux machine since lightdm-gtk-greeter 2.0.0 arrived.
<ochosi> wait, you've backported the 2.0 greeter to 14.04?
<ochosi> what does "backport" mean exactly? did you check whether it was using any symbols that are too new for gtk3.10 (or whatever 14.04 was shipping with) ?
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, Took the dsc and built under Trusty.
<brainvvash> https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/43999
<ochosi> btw, no need to ping me all the time, i also follow this channel if you don't
<flexiondotorg> suggest defining the active-monitor in /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf to work around the issue.
<flexiondotorg> *suggests
<ochosi> right, well i don't have trusty around here so i can't even try to reproduce
<ochosi> and i'm not sure i'd wanna spend my time on it, LTS releases are supposed to only get bugfix updates for a reason (stability)
<ochosi> otherwise we could just do rolling release
<knome> well unless there's a very good reason to do the backport
<ochosi> yeah, which in the case of the greeter - there isn't
<knome> nope, just saying :)
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, Also affects 15.04
<ochosi> wait, before you said you can't reproduce it on 15.04?
<flexiondotorg> ochosi, I can't because I don't have a dual monitor setup running 15.04.
<flexiondotorg> But I will try a live iso on my work computer later.
<flexiondotorg> The reason for backporting lightdm-gtk-greeter to 14.04 was so the a11y features work correctly.
<ochosi> right, what doesn't work exactly in 14.04?
<flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/+bug/1426664
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1426664 in lightdm-gtk-greeter (Ubuntu) "After booting to lightdm-gtk-greeter, get a white screen until I click a mouse button" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ochosi> that is the bugreport you linked to before
<ochosi> what a11y features aren't working in 14.04
<flexiondotorg> Using lightdm-gtk-greeter as shipped in the official 14.04 archive, you can enable screen reading but it is "killed" once you log in.
<flexiondotorg> Using lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.9.0 or higher and Orca from the accessibility PPA resolves that issue.
<flexiondotorg> Now, regarding the white screen. I have just reproduced that on my dual screen workstation at work using Ubuntu MATE 15.04.
<ochosi> flexiondotorg: right, i guess screen reading could be added to the session startup for those who need it though as a workaround, no?
<flexiondotorg> Well, orca and onboard are not session based. They are activated via gsettings triggers.
<flexiondotorg> Via keybindings and display manager handoff.
<ochosi> meh, our file chooser has weird sorting by defualt
<ochosi> folders are shuffled into the other files
<ochosi> (in gtk3)
<elfy> hi slickymaster 
<elfy> work
<slickymasterWork> hey elfy 
<krytarik> Unit193: Just done overhauling the docs' translation script too now, as well as doing some more changes to the credits one - both are following the same pattern now too:  http://paste.openstack.org/show/P2HCrnI3WksfU0ub73W4/
<Unit193> krytarik: WHY YOU PING ME?!  I  NO NO HERE!
<Unit193> OH wait.
<krytarik> :P
<Unit193> translate() { => translate () {  Eh. :/
<knome> haha
<Unit193> krytarik: What editor do you use?
<krytarik> Vim, usually.
<Unit193> I flip between nano and vim, the syntax coloring in nano colors foo() as a function but not foo ()
<knome> nano is better.
<knome> ;)
<krytarik> Unit193: Yeah, I noticed that too - but Nano is wrong there. :P
<ali1234> one of my panels isn't accepting clicks at all
<ali1234> only one of four though, its weird
<bluesabre> flexiondotorg: saw that briefly when 2.0 was in development, interesting to see its return
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Settings active-monitor=0 seems to be a work around.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hello!
<flexiondotorg> bluesabre, The Arch Linux bug tracker references a patch they are waiting to see applied to trunk.
<bluesabre> also good to know
<bluesabre> Unit193: hey!
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-18
<knome> wicked. didn't ali1234 say one of his panels are unclickable? that just happened to me as well.
<Unit193> Yes.
<knome> that was a rhetoric question you silly one
<ali1234> knome: seems like a recent regression then?
<knome> maybe
<knome> i was doing something in thunar when this suddenly happened
<knome> thunar froze too
<ali1234> restarting the window manager doesn't help
<knome> restarting the panel worked for me
<ali1234> xwininfo indicates there isn't some invisible thing covering it
<knome> that sounds plausible
<ali1234> i can't see any dfference between the panels
<knome> i only have one panel, so...
<ali1234> changing settings on the panel doens't make any difference... even moving it to another display
<knome> i didn't poke around much since i was in the middle of something
<knome> but if you have things you'd like me to grab the next time i hit this...
<knome> (if i hit it)
<slickymasterWork> knome, ftr I'm +1 on your proposed review of the Seeds & Composition section on the Strategy Document
<knome> ok, good
<elfy> evening all 
<elfy> ochosi: so - what did you end up deciding about meeting? 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<elfy> hi :)
<ochosi> i wanted to do friday, but then remembered you'r rarely available on fridays...
<elfy> lol
<elfy> actually normally I'm always around Friday - *this* week I'm covering 
<elfy> don't hang meeting time on me - as long as someone "Beta should be next week" that's fine
<elfy> that said - images are still fubar on xorg it seems
<ochosi> oh meh :)
<ochosi> ok
<elfy> generally - Friday I don't work, Thursday often only mornings
<ochosi> k, good to know
<ochosi> not sure why i misremembered that...
<elfy> I think we spoke last week - at which point - this Friday I'm working :)
<ochosi> :)
<ochosi> ok, meeting set
<elfy> :)
<micahg> is there a bug report for the images?
<micahg> I can take a look a bit later
<elfy> micahg: as far as I know - mlankhorst was looking - not just us, seems to be most, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/16/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t16:52
<micahg> ah, ok
<elfy> no xorg-server
<micahg> hrm
<elfy> yep
<cseder> Hi! What's on the menu for today?
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, since corsac has said he can't be bothered to do more 4.12 uploads, should we package them all here?
<Noskcaj> and could i have ~xubuntu-dev access so i can put updated packages there rather than my own PPA?
<Noskcaj> hi cseder
<cseder> Hello there Noskcaj 
<cseder> How is development in Xubuntu working out? Are you a fluid team?
<elfy> only on the night of release :p
<pleia2> some of us do drink a lot
<cseder> Oh! That's unusual ;-)
<cseder> Just don't go out the night BEFORE the release...
<cseder> Personally I don't dring anyway, so it doesn't matter! ;-)
<cseder> drink
<cseder> sounded drunk there
<knome> cseder, you'd really be better off at #xubuntu-offtopic :)
<elfy> cseder: if it's all wrong the night before release - the best time to drink ... 
<cseder> I was thinking about joining the development team knome, but if you insist, I'll go my merry own way
<knome> cseder, don't get me wrong, feel free to hang around here as well, but if you want to talk about drinking this isn't the right place
<knome> (besides, blackmailing not going to work...)
<cseder> I think there's a link to my LinkedIn page over at Launchpad... Same nickname
<Noskcaj> cseder, Joining the team is less formal than that. contributions = part of the team now
<cseder> I have Andrej Stepanov on my contact list ;-)
<cseder> Or was it Alexander
<pleia2> I don't know who that is, but feel free to jump into dev discussions as you can
<elfy> for sure
<pleia2> signing up for the mailing list is also valuable
<cseder> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Stepanov
<elfy> knome: and it was that bad goblin that started the drinking talk 
<knome> cseder, xubuntu is very meritocratic; so instead of telling who you know, why don't you tell what you want to do to help us?
<knome> elfy, tut tut!
<cseder> knome: Who gave you piss to drink for dinner today?
<knome> cseder, calm down
<cseder> I like to brag a little, so do you.
<knome> feel free to do that - elsewhere
<cseder> Everybody does.
 * ObrienDave pays attention
<knome> at least until you prove us you are really willing to help, not just brag..
<cseder> I get that. 
<cseder> This is my first meeting with you guys, so I kinda get a feeling for how the tone is around here.
<elfy> generally laid back
<elfy> but -offtopic is better to get to know people 
<knome> cseder, just remember your tone affects our tone...
<cseder> That's a good position.
<cseder> Well. Now look who's talking, eh?
<cseder> ;-)
<elfy> micahg: apparently this https://bugs.launchpad.net/xserver-xorg-driver-vesa/+bug/1432899
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1432899 in xserver-xorg-driver-vesa (Ubuntu) "VESA error: Cannot read int vect" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<cseder> The thing is: I don't have very much time to offer, but I would like to learn more about how an open source community functions, learn more about using the tools you do, and learn to be a better programmer.
<elfy> or at least that's current
<cseder> I've only worked for commercial companies.
<cseder> I've like never ever participated in an open source project before, I don't even know how to use other code repository tools than TFS! :-p
<cseder> But I've been using Linux since 1996.
<Noskcaj> cseder, What programming language do you know?
<Noskcaj> But i suggest you start by finding something you use often, and testing or fixing a bug in it
<cseder> Mainly C, and C++. 
<cseder> Some Python.
<Noskcaj> Which is what most of xfce is in, that helps
<Noskcaj> and most of ubuntu's scripts are python
<cseder> But the time is an issue. I'll start with joining the mailing lists, then browse through some of the bugs and code, and see what I could make out of it
<Noskcaj> I've got to go to school now, someone else should be able to answer any questions you have
<Noskcaj> sounds good
<Noskcaj> anything you can do helps us
<cseder> Ok. Study hard.
<cseder> There is probably a bit to read through regarding how the dev process works and how to do what. Guess I find my way around in the documentation for the developers.
<cseder> Ok, see you guys later. Gotta go...
<elfy> caught ... 
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-19
<micahg> bluesabre: hi, I was wondering why you copied xfce4-power-manager from the staging PPA instead of fixing the recipe?  there's been a failed recipe for over 2 weeks now
<micahg> or rather updating the packaging
<bluesabre> micahg: sorry about that, haven't been keeping on top of everything
<bluesabre> will resolve the failed dailies now
<micahg> is there a reason not to use the vivid packaging?
<bluesabre> probably not
<bluesabre> taking a look now
<micahg> ok, I figured it was something easy I could fix...dug into it and figured poking was better than tinkering
<bluesabre> either is fine by me :)
<bluesabre> but I should do a better job of maintaining the PPAs
<knome> micahg, since ~xubuntu-dev has no special permissions regarding uploads any more, maybe you could pass the ownership of that team to ~xubuntu-project-lead
<micahg> hrm, is there a xubuntu-tech-lead
<knome> no
<knome> i don't see why the project lead could not own the team
<knome> especially since it's currently ochosi 
<knome> the owner is more about trust and a social arrangement in this case anyway
<knome> well unless the DMB has requirements for people who can push to branches that are used to upload stuff
<knome> (but the uploader needs to take care of reviewing the upload anyway, so..)
<micahg> well, we usually want technical people appointed those who can push
<knome> well if nothing else, you can pass it to bluesabre...
<micahg> yeah, if he wants it, I can certainly do that
<knome> well just to have it with someone who's more active
<micahg> ooh, have to run, bluesabre leave me a note if you want me to pass that over to you
<micahg> both ochosi and bluesabre are admins
<knome> hf micahg and see you later
<bluesabre> micahg: yeah, just needed version bumps. I dropped xfce-4.12 in -staging while I was waiting to get it all in vivid
<bluesabre> sure, if you want to send it my way, np
<Unit193> Shiny new xfdashboard.
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Unit193: Do we want gmusicbrowser 1.1.14 for vivid? If so, i'll file an FFe right away
<Unit193> I saw that, think it's a bit late honestly.  (And by a bit, I mean a lot.)
<Unit193> Debian uploaded gnumeric, Debian #764045, debian #772075
<ubottu> Debian bug 764045 in gnumeric-doc "gnumeric-doc: Please drop recommends against gnome-desktop-data" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/764045
<ubottu> Debian bug 772075 in gnumeric "gnumeric: Segfaults when undoing "Add 1 row" in my sheet" [Important,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/772075
<Noskcaj> Unit193, yes. I'll package gmusicbrowser in the debian git, and maybe xubuntu-staging?
<Noskcaj> It might be worth merging a few of the changes into ubuntu as patches though
<Unit193> Noskcaj: Erm, you know Debian is frozen right?
<Noskcaj> Unit193, yes, unstable uploads are still ok though
<Unit193> Not generally.
<Unit193> Upload to unstable => Testing is blocked.
<Noskcaj> I'll check with alessio, and see how he wants to upload it
<micahg> uploads to unstable are not ok at the moment unless it's something meant for testing, experimental is ok
<micahg> *generally not ok
<Unit193> Right.
 * micahg is trying to remember how to read the germinate output...
<Unit193> Oooh, that's always fun...
<micahg> gmusicbrowser is a leaf package, so if we're ok with docs/translations freeze issues, most likely an FFe would be approved
<micahg> FWIW
<Unit193> Shouldn't be much in ways of docs for it.
<micahg> would need xubuntu-docs team sign off for any UI changes and xubuntu-translations? team sign off for any string changes after 21:00 today
<micahg> (translation string freeze is today)
<micahg> UTC of course :)
<Unit193> https://github.com/squentin/gmusicbrowser/commit/172cfd32b6ca1c9654223015c6fb3b87759684c2 fancy, moved to gst1.0
<micahg> yeah, I was kinda hoping that would remove the xubuntu dependency on gstreamer-0.10, but doesn't seem like that's it
<Unit193> micahg: pidgin and xfburn are the last ones, LP 1295207 and nothing about Xfburn.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295207 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "Migrate to farsight 0.2* / gstreamer 1.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295207
<micahg> well, looks like we'd need distro buy in for that patch as libpurple seems to be seeded just about everywhere
<Unit193> Pinged robert_ancell a little, but..
<micahg> well, I doubt we'd get an FFe for that right now, I'd rather wait until W opens...
<micahg> if we can get Debian to take the patch :D
<Unit193> Oh indeed, I just played with it now since Fedora kindly added the patch, and wanted to test. :P
<Unit193> And that, would be a trick.
<Unit193> Think Sean was going to look into Xfburn if it was stalled too much longer.
<micahg> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=731122
<ubottu> Debian bug 731122 in libpurple0 "libpurple0: depends on obsolete Farstream 0.1" [Wishlist,Open]
 * micahg adds to LP
<Unit193> Didn't see the blocker bug before 735974, looks like someone wants to remove 0.1 which would give the pidgin maintainer a nudge.  Pidgin in Ubuntu is a little out of sync with Debian's, but not too bad.
<Unit193> (As opposed to plymouth, which has never been merged. :P )
<micahg> well, if you give them the magic patch, it might just happen :)
<micahg> or things like this are still unresolved 3 yrs later: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=607969
<ubottu> Debian bug 607969 in sqlite "sqlite: Still useful?" [Normal,Open]
<Unit193> Oh my..
<micahg> I must have gotten distracted
 * micahg bets farstream 0.1 is more supportable than sqlite2
<Unit193> I'd think sqlite2 is more used though, ubottu uses it for one. :P
<micahg> sigh
<micahg> any reason why it's not using sqlite3?
<Unit193> It is python2, and using python-sqlite.  I think the biggest reason is that "it works", and not exactly activly developed.
<micahg> ok, EOD for me, good night
<Unit193> Good night.  Glad to see you alive again!
<micahg> :)
<astraljava> Congrats, team! I've now been using vivid for about a week, and I must say it's probably the best distro I've used thus far. As long as I remember to put my laptop to sleep by using systemctl suspend. :D
<astraljava> And yeah, it's not a small acknowledgement. I've been using linux since '05 or so.
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Glad you like it.
<ochosi> wb astraljava and thanks :)
<astraljava> Cheers. :)
<elfy> ochosi: just so you know where we are pre-meeting tomorrow (I'll not have time to check tomorrow)
<elfy> image is currently still broken, but apt-get update/upgrade and restart of lightdm gets to desktop, so I'd hope tomorrow's builds will work 
<ochosi> ok, heads up, i read backlog :)
<ochosi> micahg, Unit193, Noskcaj: having gmb 1.1.14 in 15.04 would be nice, but we won't get rid of gst1.0 with it (as you already acknowledged)
<ochosi> i guess we should put it in the staging PPA asap, give it some testing and then decide whether we want to go for SRU
<ochosi> the current version of gmb has some annoying crashes in vivid (they weren't in utopic, as far as i can tell, so maybe perl lib related or gst0.10 being unstable/unmaintained)
<ochosi> this is the bugreport btw: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1401609
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1401609 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmusicbrowser crashed with SIGSEGV in emission_find()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ochosi> haven't really had time to debug this at all, was too invested in xfce stuff
<ochosi> would be nice to check whether 1.1.14 with gst1.0 fixes that
<ochosi> so if any of you could/would package the new release for staging, we could send out a (late) call for testing
<ochosi> bluesabre: was out until now, haven't had a chance to look at the team descriptions again
 * Unit193 wants to be part of the cookie eating team.
<knome> Unit193, you mean the fat boys?
<ochosi> :D
<knome> :X
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-20
<pleia2> ochosi: have polo?
<pleia2> (the shirt, not the sport)
 * micahg wonders if the gmusicbrowser issue isn't due to libgstreamer-perl not being rebuilt in vivid
<micahg> well, that would be a symptom
 * micahg thinks he was chasing an untamed ornithoid without cause
<Unit193> Heh. :)
<Unit193> Bitbucket likely spammed you about me adding mgersten too. :P
<micahg> heh, don't get those emails anymore...
<Unit193> micahg: Bugfix releases still a-ok?
<micahg> as long as it doesn't affect UI for Doc string freeze
<micahg> s/for/or/
<Unit193> micahg: Would you mind syncing thunar-dropbox-plugin from exp, or should I do a request?  It has 2 functional changes, one prevents a crash and the other makes it so it doesn't break on symlinks.
<micahg> let me check
<Unit193> https://github.com/Maato/thunar-dropbox/commit/36021d97ff80db39f0ec0a782eb1056a8898606c
 * genii freaks out then calms down
<micahg> Unit193: build system changes usually require FFe (IIRC)
<micahg> should be easily enough approved
<micahg> then I'd be happy to sync 
<Unit193> It shouldn't, still uses waf just uses the autoinstall rather than pkg-config to install. :/
<Unit193> Oh well, I can either FFe or whatever works I suppose.
<micahg> if you don't mind, I think it's a nice cleanup, but I think it might technically need the approval since we're switching from the packaging handling multiarch to upstream (as I said should be welcome and easily approved)
<micahg> I see that requirement never quite made it to the wiki...
<micahg> idk
<micahg> feel free to subscribe me
 * micahg is probably just being more cautious than anything
<micahg> ok, I'm off, have a good night
<Unit193> lp 1434398
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1434398 in thunar-dropbox-plugin (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Sync thunar-dropbox-plugin from experimental" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1434398
<Unit193> G'night.
<genii> 'night
<micahg> commented and subscribed
<ochosi> !team | reminder: community meeting in about 15mins
<ubottu> reminder: community meeting in about 15mins: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> pleia2: i received the polo yesterday, could only try it on today, i can share some pix i snapped with you and knome 
<bluesabre> :|
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> going through the motions, eh? :)
<ochosi> alrighty everyone, meeting time!
<ochosi> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Mar 20 11:00:28 2015 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bluesabre> announcing my presence, nothing more
<ochosi> !team | meeting time, who's here?
<ubottu> meeting time, who's here?: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193
<ochosi> and everyone else
<bluesabre> o/
<bluesabre> morning meetings are always lonely around here
<ochosi> seems like it
<ochosi> righty, well we can still do a brief one
<ochosi> elfy mentioned that images were broken, but should be fixed by today
<bluesabre> mhm
<bluesabre> haven't tested yet
<ochosi> i'm currently syncing the image, will then give it a brief spin
<ochosi> me neither
<ochosi> had a busy week
<bluesabre> yeah, I've been out and about or busy at home myself
<ochosi> #topic Open action items
<ochosi> i guess most of those we'll have to carry forward, soince the assignees aren't around
<bluesabre> yeah
<ochosi> #action Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
<meetingology> ACTION: Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
<ochosi> #action elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda 
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda
<ochosi> #action knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion
<meetingology> ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion
<bluesabre> technically the games thing is on the discussion part of the agenda
<ochosi> #topic Team updates
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> #done elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda 
<ochosi> any updates from your side?
<bluesabre> #info Xfce 4.12 has been uploaded to vivid and the xubuntu-staging PPA.
<bluesabre> #info Unit193 set up a package tracker for the xfce projects in Debian, Ubuntu, and our PPAs https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce412.html
<ochosi> #info Gmusicbrowser 1.1.14 has been released. It now supports gstreamer1.0, we should try to get it in the staging-PPA and test it for a potential FFe for 15.04
<ochosi> mm, nice page Unit193 
<bluesabre> there was something else, give me a bit to try to remember it
<ochosi> sure
<bluesabre> #info We'll be updating the team/subteam descriptions on Launchpad shortly to conform to a standard layout
<bluesabre> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-subteams Let us know if you have any feedback for the proposed layout
<bluesabre> We'll probably start applying this over the weekend
<bluesabre> not sure I have any more updates right now
<ochosi> ok
<ochosi> let's move on then
<bluesabre> k
<ochosi> #topic Announcements
<bluesabre> #info Upcoming milestone: Final Beta Freeze on Monday, Final Beta on Thursday
<bluesabre> #info Xubuntu 12.04 EOL is next month, we should make a formal announcement
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> i don't have any other announcements
<bluesabre> I think that's it from me as well
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> #topic Discussion
<ochosi> so we have those three topics, which are actually all for 15.10
<bluesabre> good job for us getting ahead of the game :)
<ochosi> personally i 'm not a huge fan of messing with our default apps too much
<ochosi> it's not (just) about tradition, but people have been more or less happy with them
<bluesabre> yeah, the only one I find to be troublesome is Abiword
<ochosi> the iso size would be the best reason (for me) to change the apps a lot
<ochosi> yeah, i agree
<bluesabre> So many bugs (theme and functionality) stem from that
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> gimp would only make sense if we find a really good replacement for it
<bluesabre> right, and as time marches on we may have to consider other apps if an application becomes too unmaintained or too old
<ochosi> i don't have a strong opinion on the games tbh
<bluesabre> the games we have are small and common
<bluesabre> no benefit in dropping them
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i don't mind if we discuss this again, but it doesn't make too much sense if there's only the two of us :)
<ochosi> i say we keep these items on the agenda for now
<bluesabre> yup
<ochosi> k, anything else you wanna discuss?
<bluesabre> since I have your attention, want to comment on http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-subteams ? :D
<ochosi> heh, crap
<ochosi> alright :)
<bluesabre> knome authored the new stuff, and i have no complaints about the direction
<ochosi> "perpetually" - really?
<bluesabre> current descriptions, some are good, others not so much ;)
<ochosi> the template looks good
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> so yeah, let's update all descriptions following that templÂ´ate
<ochosi> definitely a nice improvement
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> good, anything else?
<bluesabre> don't think I have anything else at the moment
<bluesabre> I'll probably do some translation releases this weekend for different projects
<ochosi> cool
<ochosi> #topic Schedule next meeting
<ochosi> #action ochosi to schedule the next meeting
<meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to schedule the next meeting
<ochosi> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Mar 20 11:34:35 2015 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-03-20-11.00.moin.txt
<bluesabre> thanks ochosi
<ochosi> thanks bluesabre (and all you lurkers!!)
<bluesabre> :D
<ochosi> crap, seems like meetingology didn't recognize nicks because those folks had no lines in the meeting or something
<ochosi> instead **Unassigned**
<bluesabre> oh right
<ochosi> anyway, gotta run, bbl
<bluesabre> seeya ochosi
<frombenny> can we include an app like Bleachbit or Ubuntu Tweak to wipe out old packages that aren't in use after an update?
<elfy> ochosi: why you scheduling next meeting? shouldn't Unit193 be next? 
<ochosi> uh, dunno, it was me for XPL and now me for artwork. i guess i forgot about our policy of the same person not chairing twice in a row
<ochosi> we should really update the list on the meetings page for these cases of amnesia
<elfy> ochosi: done :)
<ochosi> ty :)
<ochosi> Unit193: sorry for the confusion, please go ahead and schedule the next meeting when you can
<ochosi> elfy: i've downloaded today's image, will test a bit later. have you gotten round to it yet?
<flexiondotorg> Hi guys
<flexiondotorg> elfy, As of today, X is not busted anymore. I helped with the testing etc. All good again.
<flexiondotorg> elfy, However does Xubuntu ship the Additional Drivers tools?
<flexiondotorg> I've noticed that is now no longer possible to install the Virtualbox additions via that tool. 
<flexiondotorg> Considering https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox/+bug/1368784/ - that is quite a big problem now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1368784 in virtualbox (Ubuntu) "Utopic Virtualbox guest gets only up to resolution of 640x480" [High,Confirmed]
<micahg> Unit193: I see someone beat me to the punch on the upload
<micahg> sorry I missed the meeting, a bit early here
<ochosi> hey micahg 
<ochosi> any chance to get a package for testing gmb1.1.14 with gstreamer1.0?
<micahg> I can't get to it today, but I can certainly look at it over the weekend
<ochosi> okeydokey
<micahg> I guess the good news is I'm much more familiar with git than I was 2 years ago :)
<ochosi> i tried upstream gmusicbrowser, but i'm not sure it doesn't just use 0.10 since i still have that installed too
<ochosi> hehe, good :)
<micahg> the new version can use either
<micahg> or neither
<ochosi> i know
<ochosi> but only 0.10 has an explicit cli option it seems
<ochosi>  -gst0
<micahg> right, default is 1.0
<ochosi> gotta buy some grocieres, bbiab
<ochosi> groceries too
<knome> well of course i'm here late ;)
<elfy> flexiondotorg: yes we use additional drivers - it's not something we worry about much, and I for one wouldn't get in a tizz over vbox extras - people should install the oracle one :p
<elfy> ochosi: I'd not had time to do more than check what should be there was 
<flexiondotorg> elfy, Huh?
<elfy> [14:10] <flexiondotorg> I've noticed that is now no longer possible to install the Virtualbox additions via that tool. 
<elfy> I never do - I use the oracle one and install guest addition inside vbox
<flexiondotorg> elfy, Yeah, but this tool has always worked until recently.
<elfy> yea don't doubt it - just saying it's unlikely that anyone in team here is going to worry about it much :)
<dkessel> flexiondotorg: i believe xnox just issued an update for the drivers Installation package. Maybe he would be interested if you ping him in #ubuntu-devel
<Unit193> micahg: Heh, so it'd seem.
<Unit193> gmb done.
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-21
<ochosi> sweet
<ochosi> in -staging?
<Unit193> Unless I did something wrong...
<ochosi> :)
 * ochosi checks
<ochosi> hmm, no gmb here: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
<knome> (:
<Unit193> Oh right, because we like the word 'xubuntu' so much, we repeat it.
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> good point, but a bit late in the game to change the name of the PPA just for the sake of it
<Unit193> Take 2.
<knome> ochosi, should ~xubuntu-project-lead own ~xubuntu-bugs ?
<knome> ochosi, and ~xubuntu-users
<ochosi> hm, good question
<ochosi> who owns those teams now?
<knome> i think bugs yes, users is a better question
<knome> ~xubuntu-team
<ochosi> yeah, i'd tend to agree
<ochosi> users should be "free-er"
<knome> they both have open membership
<ochosi> yeah, i know, then again ownership might send the wrong signal
<knome> xpl now owns bugs
<ochosi> then again, i don't know if ppl really notice/care
<knome> the logical argument is that the xpl should "own" all xubuntu teams
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> if not, then why should?
<knome> there is no ~xubuntu-community
<ochosi> true that
<knome> which would be sematically nice, but technically so waste of time...
<ochosi> agreed
<knome> because that would have need to be owned by xpl..
<knome> and that's not a right signal either ;)
<ochosi> heh
<knome> so should xpl just own users directly?
<knome> it's a technical thing anyway
<knome> ok, i guess another question
<knome> does xpl need to be the member in all the teams?
<knome> i think there was some argument behind that, but...
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-project-lead/+participation
<knome> that looks stupid (the first row)
<knome> that's just wrong; the fact that the xpl team owns that team should not make it a member of other teams via the teams he owns
<knome> and; owner should always be able to touch and do everything on the team anyway
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> here's the thing: i can't do *that* :)
<knome> and a more weird thought
<knome> maybe the xpl team could/should be "Xubuntu community managers"
<ochosi> xpl team?
<knome> because the argument that via that, we have access to all teams is vanished if the sole member disappears...
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-project-lead
<knome> that
<knome> but that's not something to answer now
<knome> or decide
<Unit193> Progress on 1270486, that's good.
<knome> bug 1270486
<ubottu> bug 1270486 in libdbusmenu (Ubuntu) "libdbusmenu doesn't use the menu item's label if it has a stock icon" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1270486
<knome> hmmh
<knome> aand one more thought: one team where XPL probably *should* be a member in is ~xubuntu-release
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, that looks like that one is going to get fixed, since trevinho already wrote a patch and larsu approved
<Unit193> So now I'll finally know the difference between  'quit' and 'quit'!
<ochosi> :D
<knome> Unit193, isn't that obvious?
<Unit193> It is if you use sed on the glade file.
<knome> ;)
<ochosi> Unit193: yay, shiny new gmb!
<ochosi> and it seems that sucky crash when closing it is gone
<Unit193> Is it shiny?
<Unit193> \o/
<ochosi> nah, almost no visible diff, but that fix is good
 * Unit193 fixed it. :---3
<ochosi> oh well, and equalizer presets
<ochosi> that is quite awesome
<ochosi> thanks a bunch, Unit193
<Unit193> Of course.
<ochosi> i'll start testing it now and report back
<Unit193> Prepped it for Debian too, but didn't push into the pkg-multimedia repo. :P
<ochosi> awesome
<ochosi> never thought that one would even get close to making it into 15.04
<ochosi> but with the regression (close-crash) we have a chance of getting it in i guess
<Unit193> (https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/unit193-guest/gmusicbrowser.git)  Someone will have to FFe it, of course.  And the sooner the better.
<jjfrv8> knome, just did some installs of today's image and noticed a couple of minor issues with the slideshow
<jjfrv8> for one thing, at least on my laptop, the slides are too big for the window and there are vertical and horizontal scrollbars
<knome> jjfrv8, again? oh my...
<jjfrv8> not sure about again, guess I'm not up to date on the backlog
<knome> well again in the sense that we've had similar reports before (and not just once)
<knome> and in most cases, the slideshow has really been just okay
<knome> i mean, it only appears in some (edge?) cases
<knome> so it's possible when you install tomorrow, you won't have the bug...
<knome> but please file a bug for that if you see it again
<jjfrv8> okay, I can try an install on my desktop tomorrow, if it's not there, will try the laptop again, too.
<knome> not like i'm not believing you, but since it's been on and off without being always reproducable... :/
<knome> cheers :)
<jjfrv8> sure
<knome> anything else that looks weird there?
<jjfrv8> not weird, but a couple of things with the text...
<elfy> knome: should not logically groups be owned by team and team be owned by xpl 
<jjfrv8> on the Xubuntu desktop slide, I think there's an extra comma.  Should be "single, multipurpose panel"; i.e., no comma between "multipurpose" and "panel"
<elfy> if there is a need for ownership
<elfy> even if it is a circle jerk
<knome> elfy, lol... well, i guess if the team should be able to kick out people from the team and so on
<elfy> well
<knome> well i don't know why they would (want to) do that, but...
<elfy> xpl could wander off
<knome> but it's a good question
<elfy> who owns xpl? 
<knome> yes
<knome> but then again, it's easier to get the LP admins to return us one team that is clearly marked as the xubuntu community leader team
<elfy> mmm
<knome> xpl is owned by the sitting xpl
<elfy> so Xpl owner is xpl
<knome> yes
<elfy> yea - catching up
<knome> i mean, to be exact
<knome> ~xpl owner is xpl, currently ~ochosi
<elfy> is there an lpl, kpl, gpl ?
<knome> probably not
<elfy> this could really get messy :p
<knome> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-council
<knome> that's basically same as ~xpl, but with several people
<knome> which is what i kind of suggested, even if it wasn't a "council" as is
<elfy> xpl is however xubuntu-team returns - so should be owned by -team :p
<knome> lol
<elfy> s/however/whoever
<knome> then that would technically mean everybody in -team would be able to change every detail in every xubuntu team
<elfy> yep
<knome> so i would vote against that :P
<elfy> and if xpl wanders a useful thing 
<knome> well,
<knome> that's why i proposed ~xpl should be "xubuntu community managers", which was a group of people who are generally trusted in the community
<knome> kind of like what the xubuntu council would be, if one would be set up
<elfy> mmm
<elfy> yep
<knome> lubuntu is going small, this is basically their "creme de la creme" team https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev
<elfy> xpl being xecutive vote on a council 
<elfy> :)
<knome> well note that i'm not saying we should set up a council... :P
<elfy> I like the wayt we do stuff
<knome> just that for the possibility that the XPL suddenly disappears, we would have a backup manager for the LP teams
<elfy> we can have a council - it'llnot have me on it 
<Unit193> Oooh!  Ooh!  Council of elfy and ochosi!
<knome> but fwiw, i think it's good enough that it's all under one team - doing the paperwork for that is doable
<elfy> Unit193 cleverly ignores the previous statement :p
<elfy> I really should just stf up 
<knome> elfy, gnome seems to split their teams, eg. a single person is owning each subteam
<knome> though they have https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-leaders-board
<knome> their "users and contributors" team, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome, is owned by the developer team, which is the team that is used to grant *upload permissions* to their packageset
<knome> which is somewhat weird, since that team is owned by the DMB
<knome> elfy, ^ there you have some other organizational models...
<elfy> oh lord 
<elfy> not seriousness ... 
<knome> lol
<knome> well it was a good excersize
<knome> er
<knome> fix the typos in your head...
<knome> anyway, now i know the way we do it is superior to others :P
<jjfrv8> knome, experimented some more with the slideshow and different hardware. It is reproducible but it looks like it's specific to my laptop video adapter.
<jjfrv8> if I connect my laptop to an external monitor, I have the slideshow problem. But if I install from my desktop using that same monitor, same resolution - no problem.
<jjfrv8> So does that make it an "edge case" and not worthy of a bug report?
<jjfrv8> knome, also pushed an MP with some suggested text changes on two slides.
<jjfrv8> bbl
<knome> jjfrv8, you can create a bug; please attach all the information you just said here, so we can try to find other people with the same hardware or so
#xubuntu-devel 2015-03-22
<ali1234> i just lost input on a second panel and then the whole panel crashed
<ali1234> trying to get a proper stack trace now...
<elfy> knome: \o/ someone else has seen the disappearing desktop icons too ... 
<ochosi> hey elfy 
<ochosi> xfdesktop4.12.1 was just released with a bunch of bugfixes, maybe that one's fixed too
 * ochosi wouldn't know because he doesn't use desktop icons at all...
<brainwash> yes, already fixed
<elfy> I'll wait till I see it before I agree it's fixed then :p
<ochosi> hehe, sure
<elfy> was there a bug for it that you know of brainwash ?
<elfy> oh - I'm sad now - where's brainvvash gone lol 
<brainwash> yes, the original report is closed
<elfy> got the number? 
<brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11639
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11639 in General "4.12: Icons disappear or misplace when using "Arrange Desktop Icons"" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<elfy> might want to mark https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11741 as dupe then
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 11741 in General "Desktop icons arranged offscreen following arrange" [Normal,New]
<brainwash> mmh, 4.12.1 has already a regression, because eric did not apply my recent changes :/
<brainwash> elfy: you should be able to mark it as dupe, because you've created that report
<elfy> done that 
<brainwash> thanks
<elfy> not sure why I couldn't see it when I searched though *shrug*
<elfy> bugzilla has untrusted connection as well xfce forum btw 
<ochosi> yeah, should be fixed shortly
<elfy> I assumed so - I also trusted it :p
<ochosi> elfy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ILPl5FQaM
<elfy> :)
<ochosi> (imo all websites with expired certs should link to that)
<elfy> ha ha ha 
<bluesabre> good morning folks
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<ochosi> new xfdesktop release = work for you :]
<bluesabre> ochosi: indeed
<bluesabre> I'm starting at the top of the list this morning, https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce412.html
<bluesabre> I think Noskcaj had mentioned that debian packaging is slowing down for a while, boo, I'll have to package things myself instead of syncing :P
<ochosi> btw, i'm preparing xfpm 1.4.4 as we speak
<bluesabre> gtk2 or gtk3?
<ochosi> but i think we wont be able to push that into 15.04, because it has a new feature
<ochosi> gtk2
<ochosi> (trayicon is back)
<ochosi> all in all mostly translations and some minor fixes
<bluesabre> cool
<ochosi> maybe one of the last 1.4 / gtk2 releases for xfpm :)
<ochosi> after that, devel release for gtk3
<bluesabre> the trayicon is a duplicate feature, so we can include it
<ochosi> duplicate feature?
<bluesabre> isn't it basically the same as the panel plugin?
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> yeah
<brainwash> bluesabre: first you should revert the commit for https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9570 :)
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 9570 in Helpers "exo_helper_execute does not respect StartupNotify" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<brainwash> I've tested with thunderbird (pops up a dialog for account creation) and thunar + xfce4-terminal which run a daemon by default
<brainwash> so I did not notice anything strange
<brainwash> vivid has still 0.10.3
<bluesabre> brainwash: instead of reverting, want to explore some of the later comments with getting the proper timestamp?
<brainwash> I will, but the last comment is not very optimistic
<bluesabre> thanks
<brainwash> I should have verified that everything works fine by checking the values :/
<knome> elfy, oi :)
<elfy> good day to you bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey elfy
<bluesabre> no more time for packaging now, bbl
<Unit193> ochosi: Trayicon. \o/
<ochosi> Unit193: yeah, we'll likely keep it around in gtk3 as well
<Unit193> Also, that clip apply to self signed too? ;)
<ochosi> eh, sorry i don't follow
<ochosi> Unit193: so what did you mean earlier exactly?
<jjfrv8> knome, did as you suggested: bug 1435009
<ubottu> bug 1435009 in ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu install slideshow slides too large to fit window" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435009
<knome> jjfrv8, thanks
<ochosi> elfy: Unit193 was kind enough to upload the new gmusicbrowser 1.1.14 to our staging PPA. as we might try to get a FFe for it for 15.04, it would be much appreciated if you could take it for a spin or motivate any other testers to do so
<ochosi> particularly there seems to be one bug that - at least so far - seems fixed for me: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gmusicbrowser/+bug/1401609
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1401609 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "gmusicbrowser crashed with SIGSEGV in emission_find()" [Medium,Confirmed]
<elfy> aha
<elfy> funny that ... I was having a look earlier today and seemed to get that 
<elfy> ochosi: mmm - I have that version here currently
<micahg> ooh
<ochosi> which version? 1.1.14?
<micahg> so, everything else the same?
<micahg> vivid, up to datE?
<elfy> ochosi:  the one on ppa 
<elfy> micahg: it's very rare that this machine is ever anything but up to date :p
<elfy> given a 3 or 4 hour window
<micahg> both of you have both gstreamer 1.0 and 0.10 installed?
<elfy> I do 
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> crap, mine crashed just now
<elfy> mine's trying to shutdown ... 
<ochosi> the error report looked a bit different, but i'll try to reproduce
<micahg> ok, maybe try filing a new report and seeing if the stacktrace is the same
<micahg> could be a similar but different bug
<elfy> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
<micahg> that could mean a thousand things :)
<elfy> ofc
<elfy> and ... 
<elfy> this package is not official - can't report viia apport
<micahg> I thought there was an option to override that...
<ochosi> hm, seems that gmusicbrowser can't be run through gdb
<micahg> it's perl...
 * ochosi facepalms
<micahg>  it has its own -debug and -backtrace options :)
<ochosi> yeah, while i know all that i guess i've worked with C too much and forgot about that now :)
<elfy> well if and when someone wants me to do anything other than say it's fubar let me know
<ochosi> hehe, ok, will do
<elfy> though tbh I'm not going to try using it much 
<ochosi> first i'll check whether i can get a meaningful backtrace/idea of what's going on exactly
<elfy> I've got the crash report - maybe manually reporting and then apport-cli to push that to manual report
<ochosi> yeah, that'd be great
<ochosi> please link it if you manage
<ochosi> either way, i've forwarded our concern upstream
<elfy> ochosi: mmm no idea - I've unpacked the crash report though - could attach the results - but there's a whole bunch of stuff
<ochosi> i ran gmb from the terminal and attached the backtrace i got there
<elfy> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10653735/ is what's inside the crash report
<elfy> if you've done the upstream one - you could add it to bug 1435043
<ubottu> bug 1435043 in gmusicbrowser (Ubuntu) "crash on close" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435043
<elfy> I guess
<ochosi> i did
<ochosi> stacktrace and coredump might be interesting
<ochosi> but i dunno
<ochosi> i guess we can wait for the maintainer to reply
<Unit193> ochosi: It wasn't important. :P  You linked a video about ssl certs, and being expired.  I asked if that also applied to self-signed. :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: xfwm4 4.12.2-1, exo 0.10.4-1, parole 0.8.0-1, xfce4-power-manager 1.4.4-1, xfce4-session 4.12.1-1, xfdesktop4 4.12.1-1 hit.
<ochosi> oh ok :)
<ochosi> and nice ^
<bluesabre> Unit193: very cool
<Unit193> Don't think it matters, but you know, fyi... Doing my jobdeded.
 * bluesabre gives Unit193 the Debian Liaison of the Year award
<elfy> he'll be able to look at that 24/7 ... 
<Noskcaj> bluesabre, Do you need help with any of the remaining 4.12 merges?
<Noskcaj> Does someone have time to confirm lp:1435068
<Noskcaj> bug 1435068
<ubottu> bug 1435068 in mousepad (Ubuntu) "mousepad crashed with SIGSEGV in g_type_check_instance_is_a()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1435068
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-21
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> ochosi: similar to https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-appfinder/4.12.0-2ubuntu1, can you go through and replace gtk-find and gtk-executre with edit-find and system-run respectively for xfce4-appfinder in git?
<bluesabre> nighty all
<Unit193> bluesabre: See #xfce-dev.
<ochosi> knome: yes ;)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i'
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i'll try not to forget
<flocculant> quick hi ochosi :)
<ochosi> hey flocculant 
<flocculant> ochosi: final beta later this week if you get chance to check an image :)
<ochosi> flocculant: yup, i'll try!
<knome> so we have scheduled the first media manager article for this week
<knome> but also the contest announcement
<knome> i'll likely bump the media manager stuff to either tue+wed, or starting from next week
<knome> (we have time to postpone by one week)
<knome> is 'apt' now the recommended command for command-line package management?
<ochosi> knome: +1 on contest announcement this week and postponing the articles ;)
<dkessel> knome: recommended - i don't know; but it draws sexy progress bars :D
<ochosi> i've recently started using apt over apt-get
<knome> by recommended i mean that the serverguide just switched to that, and many more articles i've read use it rather than apt-get
<bluesabre> if it's recommended, I'd still not recommend having that in our documentation until next release
<bluesabre> knome: if you need me to do some more writing for the media manager article, let me know
<bluesabre> flocculant: I had an idea for the templates, I'll see if I can get something together tonight
<bluesabre> ochosi: fancy drawing an svg for xfce4-notifyd? http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/xfce4-notifyd.html The icon it ships is a 48x48 png, but we need at least 64x64 for appstream to pick it up
<knome> bluesabre, the cloud stuff please
<knome> bluesabre, it hasn't even been started
<knome> well, i mean
<knome> the part where people talk about them
<knome> reminder: http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-mm-cloud
<knome> we just happened to watch a local tv show where three people tested three cloud services (spotify, deezer and groove (formerly xbox music)) and deezer won that comparison; maybe we should look into adding that to the list too
<bluesabre> knome: will work on that tonight
<bluesabre> flocculant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1483914/comments/19
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1483914 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "libreoffice-style-elementary as alternate to libreoffice-style-human" [Medium,Fix released]
<bluesabre> bbl
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i'll try to do that too
<knome> bluesabre, ta
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack :)
<flocculant> both :p
<j0kker> hey ... 
<j0kker> whats up guys.. how r u dooing :D 
<flocculant> hi j0kker 
<j0kker> can someone help me installing tar.gz .. Popcorn time .. unzipin and then usin ./install 
<j0kker> comand not found 
<j0kker> convertin with alien 
<j0kker> also 
<j0kker> installs but nowere to be found 
<flocculant> j0kker: this isn't a support channel - try #xubuntu 
<j0kker> im kinda stuck
<j0kker> flocculant,  im sorry .. 
<j0kker> but nobady is answerin there 
<j0kker> :8
<flocculant> j0kker: well - given the issue at hand try #ubuntu then - more eyes
<j0kker> they said tha
<j0kker> that im need to go to xubuntu .. :( 
<j0kker> baisicly its the same cuz xubuntu is based on ubuntu .. but they wont look into it :D just need some instructions on installin 
<flocculant> no idea 
<j0kker> ok :D ty for your kindnes :D :D 
<flocculant> wait for someone in the support channel
<j0kker> okej D: :D 
<j0kker> flocculant,  sudo: ./install: command not found
<j0kker> do i need to install something for this to work or ? :D 
<flocculant> not a clue - if I knew the answer then I would be helping in #xubuntu
<j0kker> oh :D hehe ty anyway :D 
<flocculant> knome: I'd be inclined to move the media stuff to next week - lots going on this week with wallpaper and beta
<knome> flocculant, yep
<knome> flocculant, that works as well
<knome> flocculant, iirc, then we will have one article coming out on the RC week though
<knome> but we can of course just squeeze that in on the same week as some other
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> maybe one monday one friday or something
<knome> yep
<pleia2> knome: "Licence" (spelling!) in the UI for c.x.o
<knome> pleia2, you can log in and get admin
<pleia2> I wasn't sure if I could edit that, checking
<knome> unless it's in the form and needs code change
<knome> ...in which case you can still edit it :P
<knome> but i can do that if it's in the form
<pleia2> Name of work, Licence...
<knome> ok so which one you want?
<knome> we have both forms there :P
<pleia2> License
<knome> mkay
<pleia2> licence is needed to drive a car, license is for images :)
<knome> :P
<pleia2> and English is hard
<knome> ;)
<knome> hmm, so
<pleia2> started here http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-xenial-wallpaper
<knome> we're currently not restricting submissions to any lp group
<knome> should we?
<pleia2> only if people start being bad
<knome> ok
<pleia2> I think we start off open
<knome> yep
<knome> ok, spelling should be fixed
<pleia2> ty
<flocculant> "Since computer software comes with a licence for you to use it, this is commonly misspelled as license. "
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: thanks for the users mail
<pleia2> knome: I never tested this, is the user able to see their submission?
<knome> pleia2, yes
<knome> pleia2, and even delete if they so wish
<pleia2> cool, nice work
<knome> and admins can vote on the submissions on the site
<flocculant> akxwi-dave: as soon as we have detail I'll mails testers and follow up to the user list
<flocculant> knome pleia2 - I still think that community should be able to vote 
<flocculant> knome: just so you don't make the mistake of thinking I'd forgotten about that :p
<pleia2> flocculant: your country just named a major naval vessel "boaty mcboatface" - are you sure?
<flocculant> \o/
<pleia2> lol
<flocculant> awesome name :p
<pleia2> the internet...
<knome> the flocculant 
<flocculant> pleia2: just went looking for that - that's \o/ 
<pleia2> haha
<knome> do we want to talk about how many winners we will pick?
<pleia2> yeah
<pleia2> how many is that?
<knome> we picked 6 last time
<pleia2> that's good
<knome> "submissions are being collected at URL" doesn't sound as exciting as this contest could sound
<pleia2> I agree
<pleia2> I am having trouble with words
<knome> i'm a bit headachy too
<pleia2> I am just tired
<knome> yep
<knome> long flights
<akxwi-dave> flocculant, no probs.. chhers
<flocculant> knome pleia2 just a point "Week 14" what's that? just normal week numbers I assume, wouldn't it be apt to use week 24 - the release week number?
<flocculant> other than that - pad looks ok to me
<knome> normal yes
<knome> it also has the dates inside the curlies :P
<knome> well not curly brackets literally..
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<flocculant> maybe without the week then
<knome> well
<knome> however you wish :P
<pleia2> "the week of april 4th"
<flocculant> if I look at that I think there's loads of time and art actually got things done early :p
<flocculant> anyway - was just a suggestion :)
<flocculant> not that bothered about this bit of the competition :p
<knome> RC is on week 15
<knome> so if we want the package to the RC, we need an upload before monday that week
<knome> so week 14...
<flocculant> week 25 ... 
<knome> in release ys :P
<flocculant> and yes we want them in RC :)
<knome> yes too..
<knome> yep
<knome> time to cook something to eat
<knome> bbl
<flocculant> Unit193: did you get anywhere with your core image? 
<Nairwolf> u
<flocculant> slickymaster: why did you put bug 1322724 as critical bug in the tracker? 
<ubottu> bug 1322724 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu One in firefox bookmarks" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1322724
<flocculant> ubuntu one is sso now - might have been a bug way back - but people keep pointlessly adding it to the tracker - not sure why? 
<cosimo_> Hello. I am the "unable to help" guy who gets stressed exponentially for every e-mail I get from David Pires, and Pasi asking for a last effort to translate. 
<cosimo_> Just for the record I give up. 
<cosimo_> Whoever is in charge should totally revise the procedure for entering in the LoCo teams
<krytarik> cosimo_: You seem to have very little patience too, though.
<cosimo_> 8 days for getting any answer from anybody for helping translate the missing strings?
<dkessel> slickymaster: I don't think there is a Turkish trans
<dkessel> ..lation template for xubuntu-docs
<flocculant> cosimo_: have you tried contacting David Planella? 
<flocculant> I'd mail him at the canonical address shown on his LP page - he's supposedly an admin on the catalan translators - https://launchpad.net/~dpm
<flocculant> mhall119: is dpm on vacation or anything? 
<flocculant> cosimo_: not that anyone should have to chase around to do this stuff :(
<cosimo_> flocculant:  yes, i tried contacting him directly. But still no answer. And again, I'm not impatient, is just that there is a real "need" for help translating, but timeforce is wasted
<flocculant> yea understood
<flocculant> he might be away - no idea tbh
<mhall119> no, but it's past his EOD
<flocculant> mhall119: yea realise that 
<flocculant> cosimo_: so david planella is about - just not responding I guess
<flocculant> hard to know what to do about that
<mhall119> email him again, he does a lot of different things these days, it's easy for things to get put aside and lost
<flocculant> yea for sure
<flocculant> mhall119: it's part of a larger generic issue seemingly though - not specifically him :)
<flocculant> nightmare to get people approved for translations apparently
<cosimo_> flocculant: The problem is simple. IMHO. Approvals can't be held only by one person in the LoCo. There should be an easier way to enter, and start working on translations right away. Then code can (or should) be revised, ok. 
<knome> well i just got a mail from david about a different thing today, so he's totally back after weekend
<cosimo_> but at least, people who want to translate, can. 
<knome> cosimo_, i agree with what you're saying
<flocculant> cosimo_: it's not one person - there are actually 3 admins on the catalan translators
<flocculant> it's just more likely to get hold of David - he's in the ubuntu community team
<ochosi> bluesabre: here you go: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/commit/ebd2132be0df7f51d151f9e270304013124b894d (not sure where you wanted it)
<flocculant> ochosi: good evening :)
<ochosi> hey everyone
<knome> hey ochosi 
<knome> ochosi, the mailing list is now in the dev.xubuntu.org menu, when is the article stuff written?
<knome> (:
<ochosi> bluesabre: also, i've patched the two desktop.in files and updated the icon names, that was all you did there, right?
<ochosi> knome: ok, i've put comparable effort into the article already ;)
<ochosi> knome: also, integrate the ML with the rest of the website ;)
<ochosi> (actually it's already the prettiest mailman page i've seen)
<knome> i know it is; it's the only one that has been edited the least i have seen...
<knome> and as we all know, mailman isn't pretty by default...
<knome> i'm actually really surprised there isn't a simple option to apply some CSS file to *all* of the files in mailmain
<knome> *mailman
<knome> or maybe there is, but not with IS hosting
<knome> anyway, your time just got extended by a week
<knome> i need your input on the article by april 4
<knome> consider that a very hard deadline
<krytarik> cosimo_: Just making sure, do you actually know how the translation process works? - https://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/translations/
<ali1234> can't anybody send "merge requests" for translations?
<krytarik> Well, that's how LXQt is doing it currently. :3
<cosimo_> hi krytarik, thanks for the info. Knew the basics, but all info is always welcome, so, thanks!
<krytarik> Sure.
<krytarik> But yes, getting the translations approved can be a bottle neck.
<cosimo_> flocculant: , so if there are 3 admins is even worse. 
<krytarik> ali1234: Not to mention that it doesn't really work that way for them - it's just because the translation system is currently broken.
<jpt9> Hey.  Quick question -- I'm currently running Xubuntu 15.10, and I noticed that at least for the beta, there are issues upgrading to 16.04...
<jpt9> Any idea if they will be fixed by the time 16.04 comes out?
<knome> i think it's a problem for any team to have stale set of administrators
<knome> especially if it's a team other people are semi-regularly supposed to join
<knome> jpt9, that's the plan obviously
<flocculant> jpt9: issues woth upgrading are from 14.04, in tests with a basic 15.10 the upgrade has worked fine
<cosimo_> I remember participating in the translation of Viber, to Catalan. The process was amazing. Register in the website, and start right away translating. All translations had to be approved by a number of people before being considered as "good"
<cosimo_> got the App fully translated in 2 days
<jpt9> Ah.  Good to know.  Just figured I'd check.
<cosimo_> no admins, blocking anything. 
<cosimo_> just a well organised system. 
<ochosi> knome: humm, i've only used spotify myself of those streaming apps you list there and for me there isn't much more to say about it than what you wrote... there are some players for streaming that one could mention (nuvola or tomahawk) but i haven't really used either myself so i'm not sure copy-pasting from other reviews is what we want)
<knome> ochosi, nooo
<knome> ochosi, let me paste you a decent link
<knome> ochosi, i'd like your input on this one: https://xubuntu.org/wp-admin/post.php?post=3744&action=edit
<knome> cosimo_, while i totally empathise with your situation and want to fix the process (and have taken action to do so), i really think it might be time to stop telling us how bad the process is (especially as we can't do any more about it as we have)
<ochosi> knome: oh noes, interviews? really, the problem i have is: i don't currently play music on my laptop anymore - which is why i moved to streaming apps on my phone paired with a google chromecast audio...
<ochosi> i did use the spotify desktop app for some time, but even that one i haven't used in quite a while
<ochosi> i rarely sit at home and have to time to browse and/or listen to music ;)
<knome> ochosi, actually, i'd be happy if you wrote a bit about shimmer for gmb and added some quick answers for others
<knome> ochosi, as i said, it'd be good for the series if you pretended you had the time :P
<flocculant> night peeps
<krytarik> G'night, flocculant.
<knome> nighty
<cosimo_> ok got it knome. 
<knome> cosimo_, also, as krytarik pointed out, you can start sending suggestions also
<knome> *already
<cosimo_> did that too. So, time to wait. Thanks everyone again and sorry for my long complaints ;)
<cosimo_> bona nit a tothom. (that's good night everyone in catalan)
<slickymaster> knome, do you know how do we add languages to https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs?
<slickymaster> flocculant, I didn't set it as such
<knome> slickymaster, the people who have set language X should always see that on the list as available
<knome> ...set language X as their "known" language in LP that is
<slickymaster> I'm referring to a non existing idiom there, knome 
<knome> i believe the list that is visible is the list of languages that have had any activity on them ever 
<knome> which one is missing?
<slickymaster> and if one hasn't, as yet, have any activity?
<slickymaster> Turkish
<knome> that is visible for those users who have set Turkish as their preferred language in LP
<knome> (i just double-checked that)
<slickymaster> yeah, seeing it now
<slickymaster> thanks
<slickymaster> flocculant, if you check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1560108/+activity you'll see that I just add it and assign myself to it
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1560108 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Wrong position of the 'X' button to close catfish" [Low,New]
<ochosi> bluesabre: so just to avoid misunderstandings: i've made the changes to appfinder locally, just waiting for your OK to push them...
<ochosi> night everyone!
<knome> night ochosi 
<knome> sleep tight (and get good ideas for the article)
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks, was actually referring to upstream (http://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-notifyd/tree/icons) -- sorry!
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes, was just the .desktop.in files
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-22
<flocculant> thanks slickymaster :)
<flocculant> knome: on *our* wiki contact page the wiki and lp icons look truncated
<flocculant> bluesabre: elementary icons \o/ :)
<flocculant> bluesabre knome - got a pad started - have grabbed bits from 14.10 to 15.10 changes onto there for when we get to final release while I thought about that http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-xenial-release-notes 
<bluesabre> flocculant: it worked then?
<Unit193> flocculant: Have not dug into it much right now. :/
<pavlushka> Hi I am from Bangladesh, if there's anything for Bengali Translation?, actually I know there's may be huge things for Bengali translation.
<pavlushka> I mean for the recent release.
<pavlushka> I mean for the upcoming release.
<dkessel> pavlushka: it looks like the installer slideshow is mostly untranslated: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+pots/ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu
<dkessel> for more things to translate, see: http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/documentation.html#docs-packages
<pavlushka> on it.
<knome> flocculant, at least i can't see that, so maybe you need to send a screenshot :)
<knome> bluesabre, so what exactly do we need to change to make sure the contributor docs do not build on the package?
<knome> the "all" target?
<krytarik> knome: Yes.
<knome> krytarik, thanks
<knome> let's see if i get there before my mom steps from the door
<knome> Ã­n
<knome> ++
<knome> one of these days again i see...
<krytarik> :D
<bluesabre> knome: if I had to guess, drop "contributor-all" from https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/xubuntu-docs/xenial/view/head:/Makefile#L29
<krytarik> Also, to be more specific regarding my earlier suggestion on how to fix the current PDF build fails, we'd add the symlink creation and removal *around* the 'for' loop in the script.
<knome> krytarik, maybe you could prepare it somewhere
<krytarik> knome: I was going to offer providing a diff, if that'd be sufficient, yes. :P
<knome> please just provide the new file instead
<knome> as we've seen, playing with diffs can be dangerous :P
<krytarik> :D
<krytarik> knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/lizRpEa1yNPsfjoGHhfV/
<HaloSponge> morning o/
<knome> bluesabre, lp:xubuntu-docs is updated for you to upload; bugs courtesy of krytarik 
<knome> ;)=
<HaloSponge> err Hello
<knome> HaloSponge, hello
<HaloSponge> Morning morning, good mornings.
<HaloSponge> Im dating a vet !
<knome> okay, how is that related to the xubuntu development?
<HaloSponge> sorry for that :)
<knome> no problem
<pavlushka> Having problems with update.
<pavlushka> although I am up-to-date but a notification is flashing, saying update information is outdated.
<pavlushka> I am using Ubuntu Bangladesh server.
<knome> pavlushka, what it is saying is that you haven't ran "apt-get update" recently enough
<pavlushka> it says, this could happen due to repository problem or network problem, but definitely not network as I connected to you.
<pavlushka> and even the "sudo apt-get update" is working in the terminal as I re-run it to test.
<HaloSponge> How do I get an Easter-egg into Xubuntu 16.04 ?
<knome> HaloSponge, hmm?
<HaloSponge> simple question thou.
<knome> not really...
<knome> maybe you should tell us what you are thinking and we can tell if it's possible
<knome> and whether we want to include it
<HaloSponge> thats just control, not interested now.
<knome> tough luck then :)
<pavlushka> HaloSponge, goto https://www.fairylandgame.com/, they are giving free Easter-eggs, just use xenial, thats it
<HaloSponge> pavlushka: That's a facehok app website, not interested :(
 * HaloSponge doesn't facebook
<pavlushka> knome, should I reboot?
<knome> pavlushka, you can try running "sudo apt-get update" in a terminal and see if it gives you errors; if not, the notification should disappear as well
<pavlushka> W: gpgv:/var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net_damien-moore_codeblocks-stable_ubuntu_dists_xenial_InRelease: The repository is insufficiently signed by key 993D634ED0E1A56F786F5B8F87BB07B4C99E40E1 (weak digest)
<pavlushka> W: gpgv:/var/lib/apt/lists/ppa.launchpad.net_rebuntu16_avidemux+unofficial_ubuntu_dists_xenial_InRelease: The repository is insufficiently signed by key 1DB97831F2CB20F9DB8FFDE9191A0DD498F78EB3 (weak digest)
<pavlushka> W: The repository 'http://ppa.launchpad.net/c.falco/mame/ubuntu xenial Release' does not have a Release file.
<pavlushka> N: Data from such a repository can't be authenticated and is therefore potentially dangerous to use.
<pavlushka> N: See apt-secure(8) manpage for repository creation and user configuration details.
<pavlushka> W: gpgv:/var/lib/apt/lists/panthema.net_repo_debian_dists_squeeze_Release.gpg: The repository is insufficiently signed by key 1A0CC16F04D7CE0E03775095B7B702B5F4EF04FA (weak digest)
<knome> !pastebin | pavlushka 
<ubottu> pavlushka: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imgur.com/ !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<knome> pavlushka, well, there you see the problem you are having
<pavlushka> yes
<pavlushka> I just imported my Ubuntu 14.04 LTS gpg keys to this system today.
<pavlushka> ok, http://paste.ubuntu.com/15471651/
<pavlushka> So what do I do know?
<knome> this is not exactly related to testing, but for that purpose and to get rid of the notification, you can try readding your PPAs.
<knome> but i also see you are using a repository designed for debian; fwiw, we don't support doing that
<pavlushka> no, just asking for that notification, and if the repos creating problems, I am happy to remove those.
<knome> the repositories are essentially giving you that error, yes
<knome> the output you got explicitly explains you what the problem is
<pavlushka> alrighty, should I re-add or remove the weak signed PPAs?
<pavlushka> except the debian one.
<knome> use your common sense please...
<knome> if you want to keep using them, you can try readding
<knome> if you don't mind, remove them
<knome> removing them *will* get rid of the notification
<pavlushka> sorry for the bother, knome 
<knome> readding might
<pavlushka> humbly appreciated
<krytarik> LP bug 1558331.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1558331 in apt (Ubuntu) "message "The repository is insufficiently signed by key (weak digest)" is poorly worded" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1558331
<bluesabre> knome, thanks. Final freeze is in effect, so that gives us a chance to play with it before uploading
<bluesabre> Er, final beta freeze
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> bbl
<knome> lol
<flocculant> knome: firefox > http://i.imgur.com/KTpHOGw.png not quite so bad in chromium > http://i.imgur.com/qos9ywq.png
<knome> or then we can ask for an exception and actually get the docs in the beta for people to look at
<knome> indeed
<knome> weird
<flocculant> not even I would call those ellipses ... 
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> bluesabre: yep - breeze blew away ;)
<knome> flocculant, your take on importance to get docs i b2?
<knome> *in
<knome> flocculant, bluesabre: ultimately, the change just fixes a FTBFS and drops a part of the stuff we were building, so i'm not even sure if the freeze affects it much
<bluesabre> flocculant: that's a breath of fresh air
<bluesabre> knome, right
<bluesabre> Probably meant to say, archive is frozen for b2
<knome> as long as you get an ack from flocculant to cause a respin :P
<bluesabre> Ah
<bluesabre> Fair point
<flocculant> knome which docs? 
<bluesabre> I'll work to get it uploaded tonight then
<knome> flocculant, xubuntu-docs
<bluesabre> bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: if you upload something tonight - do a respin once it's available please
<flocculant> no idea how much global spinning will go on - so if we've got something *now* go for it I'd fsay
<knome> we do
<flocculant> knome: I thought those docs were in the image anyway? 
<flocculant> contr stuff is ood 
<flocculant> oh reading backlog a bit - that's what you're talking about :p
<knome> :D
<knome> yes...
<knome> welcome to today!
<flocculant> well - only get 30 minutes lunch ;)
<flocculant> right so - not overly concerned about contr stuff in image - online is current
<flocculant> but if we have something else at the same time - then go for it
<knome> sure, but docs FTBFS, so we don't have anything in the ISO
<flocculant> oh right 
<knome> so this fixes the FTBFS and also drops contributor
<flocculant> not had time to zsync yet
<knome> well it has been ongoing for a few days
<flocculant> drops contr? 
<knome> from the ISO
<knome> as we discussed... :P
<flocculant> but tells people where contr stuff is? 
<flocculant> well yea I know we discussed it :p
<knome> well... it points to "Get Involved"
<knome> which has a direct link to the contributor stuff
<flocculant> at the bottom after people get bored with the top ... 
<knome> i got to go cook some food now; if you definitely want something else there, tell me :P
<flocculant> not even going there at the moment :p
<flocculant> now got 20 minutes :)
<knome> we can change the website
<flocculant> yea ofc
<flocculant> fix the iso docs 
<knome> maybe it would be a good idea to do so, but it looks like it needs some slight rewriting
<flocculant> we can fiddle about at leisure 
<knome> bluesabre, ^ there you go, but of course, it would be nice if you asked -release before uploading too
<knome> bluesabre, (that said, i'm sure they will ack the request)
<flocculant> knome: not sure why you think docs on iso are fubar? 
<flocculant> I had synced - the docs look fine 
<knome> flocculant, because FTBFS
<knome> flocculant, but good that they are fine...
<knome> flocculant, are the PDFs even there?
<akxwi-dave> hmmm anyone got this error on VM launching the new Beta..  http://imgur.com/MsQ2Ltu
<davmor2> akxwi-dave: yes breakage in vte
<akxwi-dave> phew.. not just me then..  :-)
<akxwi-dave> ahhhh just seen all the other crashes.. should really refresh web pages when i have had them open for a few hours..
<davmor2> akxwi-dave: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1560459 if you want to follow along
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1560459 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with GLib.GError in customize_installer(): vte-pty-error: grantpt failed: Operation not permitted (1)" [Critical,Confirmed]
<akxwi-dave> ta.. also looks like bug 1560356 has been started as well
<ubottu> bug 1560459 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1560356 ubiquity crashed with GLib.GError in customize_installer(): vte-pty-error: grantpt failed: Operation not permitted (1)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1560459
<knome> slickymaster, You can easily change your desktop wallpaper by navigating to <application><menuchoice><placeholder-1/><guimenuitem><placeholder-2/> Settings Manager</guimenuitem><guimenuitem>Desktop</guimenuitem></menuchoice></application>, or alternatively, by right clicking on your desktop and selecting the <menuchoice><guimenuitem>Desktop Settings...</guimenuitem></menuchoice> option. Where you have
<knome>  multiple workspaces, you can choose to have the same wallpaper across all workspaces, or by deselecting <literal>Apply to all workspaces</literal> and moving the dialogue to the next workspace selecting a different wallpaper
<knome> slickymaster, that probably needs "...workpaces, or use a different wallpaper for each workspace by deselecting..." and a period at the end of the sentence
<knome> slickymaster, With multiple monitors, this setting will only change the primary monitor's wallpaper. To change the wallpaper for other monitors, you will need to use the dialog as described above.
<knome> slickymaster, this could be improved too
<knome> slickymaster, Navigate to <application><menuchoice><placeholder-1/><guimenuitem>Software</guimenuitem><guimenuitem>App menu</guimenuitem><guimenuitem>Software Sources</guimenuitem></menuchoice></application> and select the <guilabel>Updates</guilabel> tab. In the <guilabel>Updates</guilabel> tab, select either <guilabel>For any new version</guilabel> or <guilabel>For long-term support versions</guilab
<knome> el> from the <guilabel>Notify me of a new Ubuntu version</guilabel> dropdown depending on your choice.
<knome> flocculant, is that up-to-date?
<flocculant> knome: yea pdf's are there.
<knome> hmm.
<knome> well..
<flocculant> knome: re the above http://i.imgur.com/gX8kd9R.png
<flocculant> I think that's the same as you've written :p
<knome> flocculant, no
<knome> flocculant, i believe that tells you to get there by gnome software
<flocculant> you can do that
<knome> i can't, i checked and i don't have that menu
<flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/JkeYcv4.png
<knome> in gnome software, i only have "software & updates", not "software sources"
<knome> well yeah, but the menu path is wrong then
<flocculant> right
<flocculant> well I don't imagine that'll change now
<knome> <!ENTITY gnome-software-properties '<application><menuchoice>&appmenu;<guimenuitem>Software</guimenuitem><guimenuitem>App menu</guimenuitem><guimenuitem>Software Sources</guimenuitem></menuchoice></application>' >
<flocculant> it was software sources at one point I think
<knome> ok, updated that
<knome> i'm sure it was
<knome> (seriously, no trolling)
<flocculant> :)
<knome> i've been gathering a good MP
<knome> ...
<knome> well, a batch of fixed bugs
<flocculant> for? 
<knome> docs
<flocculant> cool
<knome> found while translating..
 * flocculant is trying to backtrack to get fixed bugs on things since 15.10 released for the notes
<flocculant> figure if I get the note base complete now - easy peasy when real release is tomorrow :p
<knome> :)
<knome> mousepad search highlights are easier to see!!!
<flocculant> yea :D
<flocculant> will probably assume release notes are for 14.04 upgrade to 16.04 for what's changed
<knome> mostly
<flocculant> people who've changed between will already be aware
<flocculant> not bugs though ... 
<knome> yeah, it's a delicate balance i think
<knome> but since we recommend the LTS version...
<flocculant> yea -my starting position is if people are that interested in all the bug fixes in 2 years they can look them up
<flocculant> but for what's changed - we should have them there 
<knome> yep
<knome> not necessarily something for now (though i might be irritated enough to do it anyway), but we likely want to avoid saying "gnome software" everywhere where we talk about installing
<knome> not only because the finnish translation looks silly
<knome> :P
<flocculant> well I would be laidback about just calling it software anyway
<knome> what i mean is that there is no specific reason to repeat the default package manager name anyway
<knome> i pushed the fixes, updated translation templates and requested a one-time import
<knome> let's see how swift it is this time...
<flocculant> ~:)
<flocculant> knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/ReleaseNoteBase is where I am at the moment
<flocculant> rather more detail than we've ever had before I think
<knome> looks okay to me
<knome> though i might be a bit unfocused
<knome> obviously some cleanup and such
<flocculant> yup
<knome> omg
<knome> typo in the typo  fix
<knome> GEEZERS
<flocculant> :)
<knome> ok, should have fixed the brainfarts
<knome> and 40 strings left to translate :|
<knome> ...no
<knome> how am i such an idiot
<pleia2> knome: should probably announce backgrounds thing today
<knome> ^ see above, definitely should
<pleia2> I will move our etherpad draft to wordpress
<knome> shall we do that right now?
<knome> thanks
<pleia2> yeah
<knome> i'll clear the contest site
<pleia2> ty
<knome> ok, done
<knome> anything else we need to do or just go?
<pleia2> knome: draft saved, see https://xubuntu.org/?p=3777
<pleia2> can prettify or whatever you want
<pleia2> knome: oh, need a stub as well for front page of x.o, can you do that and hit publish when you're happy?
<knome> i can
<knome> just a sec and i'll check the article first
 * pleia2 nods
<knome> ok, updated the draft, please see
<pleia2> lgtm
<knome> ok, so let's see how this looks when published :P
<knome> ok, lookie at frontpage
<knome> ok, added a note about winner count
<knome> updated excerpt too
<knome> (and again, s/Xubutnu/Xubuntu/)
<knome> ready to social media?
<knome> well i really shouldn't be fixing typos today, judging by the commit message typos alone
<krytarik> hahaha
<knome> mmkay, a few more strings are translated to finnish now
<knome> pleia2?
<knome> bbiab
<flocculant> still think we've missed a trick not having the community involved in which 6 get picked
 * knome gives a blank face stare back
<flocculant> perhaps we should do something like - 6 get picked, x of which the community can choose, the remainder by the team
<flocculant> knome can do that as much as he likes - I still think that we're wrong not doing so
<knome> not doing what? blank face? :P
<knome> i get what you are saying, i just don't have a strong opinion and this is the way we did it the last time, so...
<flocculant> poor reasoning there ;)
<knome> i'm trying to avoid even reasoning, and ultimately avoiding an argument
<knome> :P
<flocculant> at some point we must have changed from synaptic to USC - look where that got us ... 
<flocculant> so basically what you're saying is that a couple of us will choose - ignoring the rest of both the community and the rest of team 
<knome> the contest site allows us to pick any LP team to be eligible to vote, so i consider my part done - if we decide to let community pick
<knome> or the team, or whatever
<knome> don't get me wrong, i'm not saying "i don't care"... but it isn't a huge thing to me did we decide to go A or B
<flocculant> well somehow someone somewhere has to make some decision here :)
<knome> yep
 * knome refers to the marketing and project leads
<flocculant> I'd say bring it up in a meeting - but that's rather pointless :p 
 * knome awards flocculant one point
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> the offline package management section is meh
<flocculant> change it then
<knome> you mean i can drop it?
 * knome hides
<knome> i'm not saying your version is meh
<knome> i'm saying the whole thing is meh...
<flocculant> just don't change it back to repeating itself once every 4 lines :p
<knome> hah
<flocculant> knome: perhaps it should be a wiki - then link to it from the docs
<flocculant> loses a chapter 
<knome> mmh
 * knome shrugs
<knome> again one of the things i don't care too much about, but since it's in... :D
 * flocculant shrugs too 
<flocculant> yea 
<flocculant> I guess it'd not be there if skellat hadn't written it
<knome> very much so
<flocculant> seems very much a I do this so everyone needs to know thing :p
<knome> well, it certainly can be useful
<knome> if you are not connected at all times
<flocculant> but it's in there now - and yes for some it can be useful
<flocculant> not sure what we can do to make it less meh :p
<pleia2> knome: sorry, was distracted
<flocculant> evening pleia2 :)
<pleia2> knome: looks good, starting social media wagon now
<pleia2> flocculant o/
<knome> pleia2, tweeted
<pleia2> g+ and fbed
<knome> f-bed
<LibreSponge> Just 'nother day for, don't know about anyone else ?
<LibreSponge> **Just another day for me , .....#
<LibreSponge> sans #
<knome> LibreSponge, if you don't have anything that is related to the xubuntu development, please take it elsewhere
<LibreSponge> ok. soz.
<LibreSponge> knome, Is there any chance the wiki could use Dokuwiki instead ?
<knome> LibreSponge, the xubuntu wiki uses dokuwiki, the ubuntu wiki we have no control over.
<LibreSponge> oh ok, sorry.
<Unit193> And the Ubuntu wiki is far too big for dokuwiki.  There is talk about switching to MediaWiki though.
<LibreSponge> Is there any mention of  xfPanel-Switch on the wiki ?
<LibreSponge> I saw a video, but am scared to post it here.
<knome> LibreSponge, we have #xubuntu-offtopic for a more relaxed discussion
<bluesabre> flocculant, knome: in case this wasn't figured out, the failed -docs build did not replace the previous upload
<bluesabre> hence no breakage and PDFs
<flocculant> bluesabre: evening :) 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<flocculant> aah right :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: the draft b2 release notes are looooong ... 
<knome> right
<knome> bluesabre, i've prepared the stuff in the branch, and it has some content fixes now as well...
<flocculant> knome - can you look at the upgrade mail draft at the bottom of http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-xenial-release-notes
<knome> sure
<flocculant> does it make sense to you - trying to give people where we are on that
<bluesabre> flocculant, knome: I'll take a look at everything a bit later, including the release notes and blog post
<flocculant> bluesabre: link to the draft notes is at the top of that pad ^^
<knome> bluesabre, cheerio
<bluesabre> flocculant: thanks!
<slickymaster> pleia2, will you please share https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-March/011082.html in xubuntu G+ account?
<flocculant> evening slickymaster :)
<pleia2> slickymaster: sure
<slickymaster> thanks pleia2 
<pleia2> slickymaster: done
<slickymaster> :)
<pleia2> did fb too
<slickymaster> great
<knome> flocculant, so when you use update-manager, the upgrade fails
<knome> flocculant, but apparently you can still boot to it?
<flocculant> yea 
<knome> flocculant, what exactly is "broken" then?
<flocculant> it boots, you might need root menu, you might be able to vt1
<slickymaster> knome, I assume rev 571 already show those strings changed
<knome> flocculant, yeah, so no GUI
<flocculant> knome: not sure what's broken tbh - just that it hangs but you can finish it 
<flocculant> knome: well I got a login screen - didn't actually bother looking to see if the desktop worked - was more interested in seeing if I could fix it
<flocculant> given that it takes ages to do to get that far ... 
<knome> yep
<knome> flocculant, better?
<flocculant> yea - that works - thanks :)
<knome> np
<flocculant> I've spent the last 2 hours in the release note - then forgot I promised this :D
<knome> hahah
<knome> that happens
<flocculant> yup :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: there is a note for you at the top of the pad :p
 * flocculant wanders off into the night ... 
<flocculant> night all :)
<slickymaster> night flocculant 
<pleia2> knome: oh, hah, we should share on the mailing lists too
<pleia2> I will write quick emails now
 * knome blinks
<knome> can poke them if you want to put in pad
<knome> or you can just write and send, i trust you
<pleia2> I will just write and send, they will be short
<knome> no submissions yet ;(
<Nairwolf> hi guys, I have seen your mails recently. I should be able to do upgrade tests tomorrow with hardware, I will tell you what are the results
<Nairwolf> I suppose with 14.04 I have to test with 14.04.4 ? 
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-23
<bluesabre> flocculant: updated the pad
<Unit193> flocculant: Now getting hit by LP 1560459 too.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1560459 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with GLib.GError in customize_installer(): vte-pty-error: grantpt failed: Operation not permitted (1)" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1560459
<Unit193> flocculant: ...So using the workaround for that bug, install works.  Not sure if bug fixed or that workaround just works for that too. >_>
<bluesabre> knome: added a bit to the cloud article, not sure what else we need there unless we want team commentary on these posts
<bluesabre> like
<bluesabre> Simon (XPL): "I really like how Spotify plays music, better than my old tape deck of 80s mix tapes"
<bluesabre> knome: confirmed that docs seem good now
<bluesabre> I'll wait until morning, then reach out to -devel and upload
<bluesabre> night all
<Unit193> G'night.
<flocculant> Unit193: I'd not say the existence of a cli workround to fix the gui update tool counts as fixed :p
<Unit193> Right, though not sure if it's the workaround that helped or ubiquity was fixed, and broken differently. :P
<flocculant> no idea - not looked since Saturday :)
<Unit193> Sure, sure.  And at this point too late anyway, I'd think.
<flocculant> who knows - given that the images are all getting marked as critical fails - I'd expect a rebuild :p
<flocculant> if I get time I'll do an upgrade test - but you know how quick they are ... 
<flocculant> and rebuilding :p
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/2.21.51 that sounds important.
<Unit193> FWIW, I started new builds too, but they'll take a bit to build.. :/
<flocculant> yes - that does sound important :p
<flocculant> also ack that 
<Unit193> flocculant: Bah, back to the first issue.  So workaround works for this problem too.
<flexiondotorg> Have you tested the new beta 2 isos?
<flexiondotorg> Is Ubiquity still crashing for Xubuntu?
<Unit193> flexiondotorg: Different thing.
<flexiondotorg> OK, but is Ubiquity working for you?
<Unit193> Not for what I'm doing no, but that's not to say the Beta 2 images don't install fine.
<akxwi-dave> flexiondotorg, just testing the new beta 2 as we speak... Ubiquity seems ok so far.. got to the try xubuntu screen this time.. :-)
<flexiondotorg> akxwi-dave, Thanks. In which case I've got a borked package :-(
<flexiondotorg> And uninstallable images.
<akxwi-dave> just about to run the full install as well.
<bluesabre> flocculant: building here, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs/16.04.3, suppose you could start another rebuild once its published
<bluesabre> knome: looks like we're still waiting for a new ubiquity-slideshow upload (vertical list of app icons)
<knome> bluesabre, hmm.
<knome> bluesabre, well, it'll land when the translations are uploaded i guess
<bluesabre> just thought I'd let you know :)
<knome> the last time i checked though, it looked like many flavors had the old 15.10 slideshows
<knome> i just bumped their version numbers up
<knome> i would imagine they want to update those as well
<flocculant> bluesabre: mmm - even if I rebuild will it have that new docs package if it's in proposed? 
<flocculant> guess not "Not touching package due to block request by freeze (contact #ubuntu-release if update is needed) " in excuses ...
<flocculant> aah I see your request in -release now :)
<ric_s> Hi, Is there a maximum number of photos to send to xubuntu contest? I did not find this information
<knome> ric_s, not really; though we don't want to encourage people to send their whole photo directory for obvious reasons :)
<ric_s> 1000 pictures is a good number?
<ric_s> joke ;)
<knome> pick 10 best
<knome> :)
<knome> or sth...
<ric_s> thanks for the reply knome :)
<knome> np
<knome> thanks for participating and good luck!
<ric_s> tks
<Nairwolf> I'm gonna do upgrade test with the Beta 2 ;)
<akxwi-dave> good luck,,
<Nairwolf> thanks
<Nairwolf> it's really long to upgrade my system ^^
<akxwi-dave> still going?
<flocculant> bluesabre knome: so I set an upgrade going this afternoon - it does boot to what appears to be a xenial desktop, even so - dpkg configure is still running now 5 minutes after I got that far :)
<flocculant> knome: grabbed docs from -proposed, looks right eg no contr stuff, pdf looks right, not sure that it needs the green thing now the contr stuff has gone, no need to differentiate 
<mexchip> hi
<mexchip> I'd like to ask a question regarding this bug:
<mexchip> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1560459
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1560459 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with GLib.GError in customize_installer(): vte-pty-error: grantpt failed: Operation not permitted (1)" [Critical,Fix released]
<mexchip> yesterday I tried the 20160322 image and encountered that bug
<mexchip> today, I see a fix has been released
<mexchip> my question is, how long could it take for the fix to be applied to a new live image?
<mexchip> so that I can repeat the test
<mexchip> to confirm the bug has been solved
<flocculant> mexchip: there was a rebuild about 10 hours ago - the bug is fixed
<flocculant> mexchip: in future you can check for rebuilds on milestones fairly easily - go to tracker - check the version - we're now at 20160323
<flocculant> if there were further rebuilds *today* then you'd see 20160323.1, .2 etc
<flocculant> mexchip: finally - thanks for testing :)
<mexchip> yes, I'm already downloading 20160323, but don't know if it included the fix
<flocculant> yep
<mexchip> great, I'd give a try once the download finishes
<mexchip> thanks
<flocculant> welcome :)
<flocculant> mexchip: you downloading the whole iso again? 
<flocculant> or do you know about zsync or rsync?
<mexchip> downloading the whole iso with zsync
<flocculant> ok - you should keep the old one and just zsync that :)
<mexchip> I don't have the previous image, downloaded it on another machine
<flocculant> ack
<flocculant> just making sure you knew :)
<mexchip> I had not used zsync before, wished I knew about it before
<mexchip> thx
<Nairwolf> hi everyone, I couldn't upgrade my system
<Nairwolf> I was interrupted, I will try to do it again tonight
<flocculant> Nairwolf: what sort of upgrade?
<flocculant> mexchip: yea - very handy - I only use it for time to be honest, but if you're somewhere with slow net, or limited bandwidth - very useful :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: what we going to do about the blueman crash? if there is something we can do of course ... 
<flocculant> oh - now I look I see it's gone upstream :)
<Nairwolf> from 14.04.4 to 16.04 with the upgrade-manager
<Nairwolf> As I don't have so much time now before eating, I will test from 15.10 to 16.04
<Nairwolf> what is the most urgent to test, with the upgrade-manager, or with a new iso ?
<flocculant> Nairwolf: and did you read the mail to the dev list about upgrades specifically? 
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: thanks for that btw
<Nairwolf> yes, of course, flocculant
<ochosi> bluesabre: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-appfinder/commit/?id=4f3266b4902cc983385fbe6fee0a26db1002dcfb
<flocculant> Nairwolf: so why tell us the upgrade is broken - when we told *you* and all :)
<Nairwolf> it is said that the upgrade from 15.10 to 16.04 works, but I wanted to verify it again
<ochosi> bluesabre: and meh, the upstream appicon of xfce4-notifyd is png and *crap*
<flocculant> ochosi: evening :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i can try to get in touch with jeromeg to refresh it and provide more sizes... i guess we should try that for all of xfce since appstream exposes the crappy default icons now
<ochosi> evening flocculant 
<ochosi> just stopping by to fix some stuff
<flocculant> :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'm wondering whether meanwhile we should patch the xfce packages in our repos to ship the elementary icons instead of the unmaintained upstream crap...
<ochosi> flocculant: now it's dinner time ;)
<ochosi> bbabl
<Nairwolf> flocculant, I'm not sure to understand, are you saying it's not really necessary to test upgrades with hardware ? 
<knome> flocculant, mm
<Unit193> migrating-upgrading.xml:228: element para: validity error : Element useinput is not declared in para list of possible children
<Unit193> migrating-upgrading.xml:228: element useinput: validity error : No declaration for element useinput
<Unit193> hardware-devices.xml:173: element para: validity error : Element appliation is not declared in para list of possible children
<Unit193> hardware-devices.xml:173: element appliation: validity error : No declaration for element appliation
<Unit193> Document fi/index.xml does not validate
<knome> (:
<knome> should be fixed now
<flocculant> knome: not sure how worried you are - but today I got to the get involved slide then install done
<Nairwolf_> upgrade from 15.10 to 16.04 is also really long...
<flocculant> Nairwolf_: upgrading via update-manager IS long
<knome> flocculant, not very
<flocculant> good enough for me
<flocculant> PaulW2U: I assume you didn't actually find bug 516237 on the livesession - but should have been 1516237 :)
<ubottu> bug 516237 in Mudlet "Crash when selecting a search result for "s?"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/516237
<PaulW2U> flocculant: I think you might be right  :)
<flocculant> I edited it for you :)
<PaulW2U> Thanks
<flocculant> knome: draft website page done - won't touch that anymore now
<knome> :)
 * knome goes looking
<flocculant> :)
<knome> ...but only if you release the lock
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> I'm logged out ... 
<knome> haha
 * flocculant blames sso
<knome> it says you are editing
<knome> taking over..
<flocculant> well it's seriously wrong :p
<flocculant> k
<flocculant> release notes are more or less finished too now - just need to sort out a few bug removals/movements depending on tracker results 
<knome> looks good to me, added release tag
<flocculant> and lose the BFRB
<flocculant> knome: I always forget tags ... 
<knome> hmm
<knome> maybe remove the excess bold from the note
<flocculant> like the BFRB ? 
<knome> refresh and see
<flocculant> refresh which the website one? 
<knome> yes
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/?p=3788&preview=true
<flocculant> logging in again :p
<flocculant> aah right from Minimal upgrade testing was undertaken during this milestone. There ... 
<knome> yep
<flocculant> just leaving the ... recommended 
<flocculant> yup - works for me :)
<knome> it felt a bit too much with the next paragraph mostly bold too
<Nairwolf> flocculant, I can confirm that the upgrade from 15.10 to 16.04 works with a real hardware. I know that it has already been tested, but it's better to test twice than one. 
<flocculant> yep - that's fine knome :)
<Nairwolf> especially with different hardware
<flocculant> Nairwolf: ack thanks :)
<flocculant> yea ofc
<knome> so consider an ACK from me for releasing 
<knome> unless it happens to be me to do that
<flocculant> Nairwolf: if I had time - and didn't start using dev almost straight away I could properly upgrade test
<flocculant> knome: yup - thanks :)
<flocculant> depends on time - and as infinity - likely I will be snoring :p
<knome> heh
<flocculant> couple of resize tests to see results for only
<Nairwolf> flocculant: tell me if I can do something to help you
<flocculant> and any extras of course
<flocculant> Nairwolf: resize image tests :p
<knome> btw, i noticed something today on the contest site...
<flocculant> knome: ... 
<knome> apparently for some reason you can select not to share your LP username with it
<flocculant> orly
<knome> it's no problem in a way
<flocculant> never noticed that
<knome> we will just have people's emails directly
<Nairwolf> flocculant: what does mean "resize image tests" ? 
<flocculant> I did go looking to see the voting bit :)
<knome> i double-checked today; xubuntu.org always needs it, contest doesn't
<knome> sooo..
<flocculant> Nairwolf: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases/1301/info
<flocculant> is the testcase
<knome> (and yeah, we're using the exact same wordpress and plugin versions, so go figure)
<flocculant> knome: odd
<knome> oh
<flocculant> perhaps because *anyone* can post there - unlike the rest of the site
<knome> there was one setting thing
<knome> maybe that helps
<flocculant> :)
 * knome facepalms
<knome> i have no idea why i didn't see that before
<knome> anyway
<knome> it's not a biggie
<knome> we do have their email addresses anyway for contacting
<knome> and if they gave a bogus one... their loss
<flocculant> Nairwolf: basically - install (making sure drives is big enough for more than one install) then reboot with the iso - install, it will ask if you want alongside install
<flocculant> knome: yea
<Nairwolf> okay, I will test that tomorrow I think
<flocculant> Nairwolf: thanks :)
<flocculant> though depends on when of course - I might have marked all ready :)
<Nairwolf> I can't test it tonight because I'm trying tu upgrade Xubuntu from 14.04.4, as I had to stopped it this afternoon
<flocculant> Nairwolf: if you are doing so with the update-manager - it WILL crash, you WILL have to hard reboot :)
<flocculant> knome: voting works then :)
<knome> mhm
<knome> are we voting already then? P
<knome> :P
<flocculant> well I did to see :)
<knome> hahah
<Nairwolf> I just want to confirm it, flocculant, and mark that this bug is affecting me
<Nairwolf> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/+bug/1549067
<knome> well it should be relatively easy to wipe out the votes if needed
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1555237 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1549067 Upgrade from 14.04.4â 16.04 dies midway taking out the session." [Critical,In progress]
<flocculant> cos first off I thought the +/- buttons were rather dim - then once voted on *something* it all became clear
<flocculant> in more ways than one :p
<knome> lol
<knome> yep
<knome> actually what i should do is add a "neutral" button there too
<flocculant> knome: why shouldn't team vote on things as they get time? makes sense to me
<knome> if team should vote, then we should link the team LP to as admins
<knome> or some else new role that has voting rights
<knome> (admin is fine though, i don't think anybody would abuse)
<flocculant> knome: I thought of that while I was there - but then I went back to my default thinking - if not voted yay or nay - fence sitter are you :)
<knome> it all depends how we want to do the voting
<flocculant> knome: well yea - I still obviously think we're missing a trick on not having community votes
<knome> as i said before, i don't have a strong preference
<knome> we can still hook up -users to a role that can vote
<knome> though the votes are totals
<knome> so if we then wanted to vote between the team
<flocculant> I'd be happy doing something like a civs for the community to whittle it down - then keep the community top vote, then team vote in 5 more 
<flocculant> or something 
<knome> we would have to clear votes or do it manually
<knome> hmm
<knome> another option is make team vote
<knome> and then pick top X from that list
<knome> and put the rest that have a positive score in CIVS
<knome> so some moderation from team, but not too much
<flocculant> or
<flocculant> have team vote for X, keep a couple, let community pick Y from remainder
<flocculant> or is that another way of saying what you did ... 
<knome> yes, it's the same
<flocculant> trouble with that is 
<knome> so basically team decides their winners
<knome> and the community can vote for the rest that have a positive score
<flocculant> team might vote on 4 - we want a lot more :)
<knome> eg. are not completely crap
<knome> we can also figure out a list of all submissions that have at least one positive vote
<flocculant> yea
<knome> though at that point i would probably just let community vote on all
<knome> because if something has +1 and -7...
<flocculant> right
<knome> it's as good/bad as -8
<knome> from my POV
<flocculant> there's a week to sort it out
<flocculant> I know how to drag info from LP group for civs
<flocculant> if we want to do that
<knome> dragging stuff from the contest site to civs on the other hand...
<knome> actually what i should do is create a template for the contest site that shows all the entries so far
<flocculant> what's the deadline as far as release schedule goes? 
<flocculant> Final Freeze I assume
<knome> yes
<knome> was my thinking that if we got voting done (early) on release week 24, we'd have a few days before FF
<knome> so we need to make sure bluesabre is around for an upload
<knome> and might want to do the exception paperwork early
<flocculant> yea - if we went that way - end civs on the Thursday before week 25
<flocculant> then we have Friday to Sunday to choose final lot
<knome> well we can start the CIVS vote on the day the voting ends if community votes from all
<flocculant> yea
<knome> if we want team moderation, then it's a much tighter
<flocculant> I'd be inclined towards community vote in 10
<flocculant> we keep at least top 1
<knome> i mean
<flocculant> team votes on rest
<knome> ultimately, if the community votes for something that is totally unacceptable
<knome> the team can have a veto anyway
<flocculant> yep
<knome> so there's no reason to apply team moderation before
<knome> in a way..
<flocculant> well
<flocculant> in that case why bother :)
<flocculant> here's the ones we want you to vote on
<knome> well okay, if we have 100 submissions, a CIVS poll is not going to be nice
<flocculant> right
<knome> that's my main concern
<flocculant> and I'd not do it :p
<knome> especially since the targets are in a different website
<flocculant> has to be a manageable number 
<flocculant> yea
<knome> so i'm not really sure what the ideal way is
<knome> as i said before, we can let the community vote on the site too
<flocculant> maybe team should vote 12 - then let community vote 6 of those
<knome> but also we don't have a way to separate votes from different groups...
<flocculant> yes - but would they? 
<knome> would they vote on CIVS?
<flocculant> if we civs - we can do LP users
<flocculant> well they'd get a mail
<knome> same with the site
<flocculant> I would if I was just bert
<knome> we can link -users to voters
<flocculant> right
<knome> (currently voting is linked with the admin group, but that's easy to work around)
<flocculant> we need to see what the rest of team thinks about it I guess
<knome> yep
<flocculant> if I'm the only one who thinks we're missing a trick - then *shrug*
<knome> lol
<flocculant> not that I'd not keep on banging the drum :D
<knome> it's just so much easier to do team voting only
<flocculant> of course
<knome> well, the last time it was a subteam of team
<knome> but now we have a better voting mechanism
<flocculant> only have to count to 7 or so that bother to vote :p
<knome> so no reason not to involve whole team
<flocculant> might be best to ping people in channel rather than m/l
<knome> mhm
<flocculant> anyway - zebedee is about now :)
<knome> lol
<knome> good night :)
<flocculant> night knome et al :)
<knome> hello amerigena 
<flocculant> close my eyes and hope I don't see the release note ... 
<knome> hahah
<knome> fair enough
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-24
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> knome: if you want to do the exception paperwork, I'll do the upload
<bluesabre> flocculant: is that to say blueman is fixed?
<bluesabre> ochosi: yup, crap png icon
<bluesabre> ochosi: not sure about replacing the icons within ubuntu
<knome> bluesabre, we still have a lot of time, but yeah, i can do that
<bluesabre> knome: great
<bluesabre> knome: how's it going?
<knome> not too shabby
<bluesabre> anything you need from me currently?
<knome> don't think so
<knome> well if you want to work on the cloud media player article...
<knome> but i don't have a clear idea how to proceed with that
<knome> or alternatively, if you want to start on the "other options" article
<bluesabre> so, nothing immediately needed :)
<knome> nope
<bluesabre> I might work on a few bug fixes then
<bluesabre> I see we got a few interesting submissions
<knome> but time goes fast so before you notice, the deadlines are around the corner
<bluesabre> yes
<knome> i agree that it's better to work on bug fixes at the moment though
<bluesabre> trying to do a better job of not losing track of time
<knome> the burndown helps with that
<bluesabre> yup
<bluesabre> speaking of
<knome> :D
<bluesabre> should http://tracker.xubuntu.org/ redirect to dev?
<knome> sooner or later, yes
<bluesabre> ok
<knome> i'll have to talk with pleia2 on how she wants to do it
<knome> and that's the beginning of that conversation ^
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> hi pleia2, glad we have at least one of you
<knome> https://unsplash.com/photos/U9x5mG0pBiQ
<bluesabre> that's nice looking
<knome> yeah, if we want to propose some images from that site to the contest, then that might be a good candidate
<knome> (i know ochosi already proposed one)
<bluesabre> I wouldn't be opposed
<bluesabre> we just have to be careful to not displace other community submissions with things we happen across
<knome> i see nothing that stops from anybody sending anybody else's submissions
<knome> another one i like: https://unsplash.com/photos/DMcI0cmYJYk
<knome> bedtime, see you all later :)
<pleia2> knome: since it's just us, I think we just drop t.x.o and do dev
<pleia2> if someone wants to see it and doesn't know where it went, chances are they know who to ask :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: no - that's to say it got reported upstream - but is still as annoying as ever
<LibreSponge> flocculant: More reporting upstream is good - but how'doya do that ?
<flocculant> find upstream's bug reporting mechanism - then report the bug :)
<flocculant> http://docs.xubuntu.org/contributors/qa-bugs.html#qa-bugs-upstream
<dkessel> does http://contest.xubuntu.org/ redirect straight to http://xubuntu.org for anyone else?
<flocculant> not for me 
<dkessel> funny. well, from a VM it does, from another machine it does not
<LibreSponge> dkessel: thought it was wpress thingy .. I don't wordpress so it's irrelevant to myself.
<flocculant> dkessel: well vbox goes to contest site here
<dkessel> maybe it is because i once was logged in to wp or launchpad or something
<flocculant> *shrug*
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: did you get mate to upgrade properly? 
<flexiondotorg> From 15.10, yes.
<flocculant> oh
<flocculant> not awake - didn't notice which it was :p
<flexiondotorg> I did try from 14.04 (unofficial) but my VM hung part way through.
<flexiondotorg> I try that again today.
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: of course you wouldn't have lts to lts - even more asleep :p
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: yea - hangs - hard reboot - dpkg --configure -allofthethings :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: gotcha, I'll see if I can fix it this weekend
<ochosi> bluesabre: i know the suggestion to patch all packages in ubuntu is not ideal, however, even if i manage to update most of the crappy icons upstream, that'll take a while
<bluesabre> ochosi: surprisingly, xfce4-notifyd is the only one that ships an icon too small
<ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, but still, the others are crap ;)
<knome> pleia2, alright, i'll get that change done now and quickly mail the dev list
<pleia2> knome: thanks
<flocculant> bluesabre: might add a note to the release notes for all milestones from now on along the lines of 'The day after release - the image is out of date. Please use daily images.'
<flocculant> might meaning unless you ask me not to - I'm going to :p
<flocculant> hi knome pleia2 :)
<knome> hello flocculant 
<flocculant> knome: there might be ubuntu main release notes and bug listing - is the syntax <<Include(/path/to/the/notes#buglist)>> ?
<knome> iirc, no
<flocculant> ok - I'll dig it out from old notes if I need then
<flocculant> bbl
<knome> <<Include(QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseNotes/CommonInfrastructure, , from="^##StartQuantalReleaseNotesFeatures", to="##EndQuantalReleaseNotesFeatures")>>
<knome> flocculant, ^
<knome> so the included page needs to have some recognizable (comment) lines you can use with "from" and "to"
<knome> unless you simply want to include the whole page, in which case the syntax you posted is fine (except that you shouldn't use a / at the beginning of the include path)
<LibreSponge> knome, got the Y!ahoo eMail about moving from tracker to dev.xubuntu.org - You should've made more-demands in  an important eMail like that. Like checkout the dev. part of the wiki etc. But a good effort :)
<knome> LibreSponge, hum?
<LibreSponge> just sayin' got the eMail, is all.
<knome> ..okay
<flexiondotorg> flocculant, How goes Xubuntu testing?
<ochosi_> bluesabre: i've contacted jeromeg about rerfeshing notifyd's icon upstream
<ochosi_> bluesabre: i can meanwhile do something for ubuntu, so we can patch in the refreshed icon earlier than it lands upstream (i'm hoping he'll just be ok with it)
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: as ever
<flocculant> knome: thanks :)
<flocculant> though given the hoohah in release I doubt they're be doing any release notes of any size :p
<knome> :)
<knome> ochosi, we should discuss who's eligible to vote anyway
<ochosi> indeed
<ochosi> how did we handle that last time?
<ochosi> members of -team, right?
<knome> you, me and pleia2 
<knome> (artwork, marketing, project leads)
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> i'm good with that too ;)
<knome> hah
<knome> flocculant has bringing up that we should let the community vote
<knome> +been
<ochosi> dunno, didn't feel like a good idea last time
<ochosi> we can discuss it again though
<knome> i don't have a strong opinion either way
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> i mean the system of "community-submitted team-picked" seemed to work ok last time
<flocculant> worked as in 'we ended up with some images that 3 people picked' 
<ochosi> dinner time, bbl
<flocculant> ha ha ha 
<knome> i think both ways have their pros and cons
<flocculant> knome: what doesn't :p
<knome> beer?
<flocculant> that has pro's and con's :)
<knome> hah
<knome> anyway...
<knome> sigh
<knome> should debug the plugin
 * flocculant is off into release note land once more - final time
<flocculant> ish
<knome> oh hah yeah
 * knome facepalms
<flocculant> knome: if you get 5 can you quickly check the release note for glaring errors - all that's left to remove is the DRAFT note at the top
<flocculant> definitely added is the last paragraph above Known Issues - and the small Upgrade section (in known issues)
<flocculant> knome: do we want the announce mail to link to wiki note or the site post? 
<knome> that's a good question
<knome> i guess we can't get both, so i'd probably go for website, as long as it has a link back to notes
<flocculant> we only did last time because I wrote it :p
<knome> hahah
<flocculant> website links to release notes yep
<flocculant> though if we're not sending people direct to release notes - maybe we should make it more obvious at the website that people should check them out
<knome> yep
<knome> flocculant, ok, i looked and did some format edits
<flocculant> knome: to what? 
<knome> flocculant, what did you ask me to look at??
<knome> :)
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta2/Xubuntu
<flocculant> that
<knome> yes, that
<flocculant> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta2/Xubuntu?action=info
<flocculant> what did you change then?
<knome> yes
<knome> shows four edits by me
<knome> maybe you are hitting cache...
<flocculant> yea ... 
<knome> :)
<knome> i'm not THAT silly
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> anyway - I'm happy enough for us to link to website - as long as the release note reading before you try it gets more prominence somehow
<knome> let's see..
<knome> https://xubuntu.org/?p=3788&preview=true <-- better?
<knome> ok, bbabl
<flocculant> yea - better - maybe no need to url the notes twice though.
<flocculant> cya later
<knome> right, yeah
<knome> in a normal situation the URL would be only mentioned once
<knome> but maybe we can just link with "release notes" as the link text
 * knome goes changes
<knome> -s
<knome> done
<flocculant> ok thanks - when asked I'll link to there then
 * knome bows
<knome> (and ties)
<knome> ttyl
<wxl> flocculant, ochosi: please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/Beta2 when you get a chance. thanks!
<flocculant> wxl: all done
<wxl> flocculant: thank you sir :)
<ochosi> thanks flocculant :)
<flocculant> ochosi: welcome :)
<pavlushka> is there any specific channel for ubuntu translation support?
<flocculant> can't get my head around the includes to ubuntu notes - so did it the simple way - just linked to it.
<pavlushka> flocculant, are you talking to me??
<flocculant> pavlushka: no
<pavlushka> ok, ;)
<pavlushka> btw, how are you, flocculant ?
<pavlushka> flocculant, can you tell me, what is "Terve!"?
<flocculant> pretty good thanks
<flocculant> pavlushka: use google translate - I'd have to ... 
<knome> "Hello!"
<flocculant> hi
<pavlushka> its from the ubiquity-slideshow translation., flocculant 
<knome> you aren't supposed to translate those
<pavlushka> Hi knome !!
<flocculant> pavlushka: oh - as knome says - they are supposed to be in different languages
<knome> i don't know why the notes aren't available there; maybe we need to make sure they aren't translated technically
<pavlushka> knome, those means "Terve!"? or the slide show?
<knome> they are greetings in different languages
<knome> do not translate them
<flocculant> bluesabre: so the wiki release notes got very long, very detailed, took ages ... thinking now of doing what Ubuntu do - not have milestone release notes - just a release note that we update during the cycle
<pavlushka> got it, knome !
<knome> ok, pushed a new revision in the main branch, and fixes the formatting too (ping: flocculant)
<knome> apparently i had pushed that to a wrong branch before...
<flocculant> knome: what are we talking about? 
<knome> flocculant, the slideshow app slide not working... well it wasn't working as i didn't push the fix to the correct branch
<flocculant> aah right - ok :)
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hullo
<bluesabre> hey knome
<flocculant> evening bluesabre :)
<bluesabre> hey flocculant
<flocculant> bluesabre: the wiki notes are complete now - all that will change between now and April is some updating as and when
<bluesabre> flocculant: that's awesome
<ochosi> evening all (again)
<flocculant> hey ochosi :)
<ochosi> flocculant: wanna briefly discuss your suggestion to let the community vote on the wallpaper submissions?
<flocculant> ochosi: my point is basically - we should let them do so 
<ochosi> ok
<flocculant> discussed it a bit last night with knome 
<ochosi> who are "they" though?
<flocculant> -users
<knome> anybody can now see the submissions at http://contest.xubuntu.org/submissions/
<ochosi> ok, so at least a lp account and being part of the lp group then
<flocculant> ochosi: but in short something like - they choose x from the pool, team choose y from the choices
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> but then
<flocculant> as was mooted last night
<flocculant> if there's 150 submissions - nightmare to get them to vote 
<ochosi> why?
<knome> especially if it's a CIVS vote...
<flocculant> depends on how
<flocculant> ochosi: that ^^
<flocculant> OR
<ochosi> knome: what's a civs vote?
<knome> http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/
<knome> ochosi, basically, order of preference
<flocculant> team chooses x - then community chooses from that smaller pool
<knome> "Why rank choices? With CIVS, voters rank their choices rather than just picking their one favorite choice. Ranked-choice voting gives more accurate results because it collects more information from voters. It also helps avoid vote splitting and spoilers."
<ochosi> yeah ok, so why is that a nightmare though?
<knome> ochosi, because you could technically have 150 different ranks
<bluesabre> I feel like the window is too small to allow the community to vote
<flocculant> window? 
<ochosi> knome: yeah, so what? we take the top 20
<knome> and since the wallpapers aren't visible on the CIVS website, you technically need to have two tabs open at least, and it's hell to go back and forth
<knome> ochosi, we were talking about "all"
<bluesabre> the time frame we have between end of comp and gotta upload
<knome> ochosi, if we pick top 20 for the community to vote, is it a community vote any more?
<ochosi> knome: ok, going back and forth sounds terrible and like a no-go
<knome> even doing the voting on the contest site with 150 submissiosn and users having to go through them all sounds like a no-go for me
<ochosi> ok, if they can't vote through the website directly, it's a nightmare, i agree
<knome> *i* will click either + or - 150 times, but i don't think many users would
<ochosi> yeah, but 150 submissions is a nightmare for practically anyone
<knome> yep.
<flocculant> of course 
<flocculant> we might have 30
<ochosi> we can just limit the contest to the first 50 submissions ;D
<knome> oh right
<ochosi> wait, i meant (:
 * knome submits 29 more quickly
<knome> (:
<ochosi> anyhoo, it would be great if we got such a big response, but i don't consider it very likely
<ochosi> at least based on the previous contest
<knome> ochosi, we currently have 21 submissions
<knome> if it's at all in the same rate, we will end up with lots
<ochosi> yeah, we had several in the previous one too, but like 70% of them were underwater shots
<knome> that kind of proves there needs to be team moderation
<knome> but if there is team moderation and users pick from moderated submissions, is it much different than the team just making the pick anyway?
<flocculant> anyway - my point in general is that if we're a community flavour - we should give the community chance to do something
<knome> ultimately, people can use any wallpaper they like
<ochosi> flocculant: are we not by having a community contest?
<knome> even the ones that didn't win the contest
<ochosi> anybody in the community is free to contribute at any given time
<flocculant> right
<ochosi> so i don't see that as a strong selling point for who gets to vote
<flocculant> anyway - I've said enough on this over the last couple of weeks
<flocculant> I think we're wrong if we don't - nothing is going to be said which will change my mind on that
<ochosi> right, i'm only readig about it now
<ochosi> flocculant: srsly?
<flocculant> seriously what? 
<flocculant> not changing my mind? 
<ochosi> yeah, well if there's nothing that would change your mind i guess all i could say is "thank you for your opinion, no need to further discuss with you"
<ochosi> and i can't even say i've made up my mind yet
<flocculant> no - not saying anyone has - I'm just saying that's my position :)
<ochosi> maybe i was reading a passive-aggressive tone in your message that wasn't there
<flocculant> nah not at all :)
<flocculant> that's just my position is all :)
<ochosi> okeydokey
<flocculant> well release is looking like silly o'clock with a possible server respin
<ochosi> well ok then, i can't say i've finally made up my mind yet, but for me the community contribution aspect is dealt with by having everyone submit whatever they want
<knome> indeed, whatever they want :)
<ochosi> whoever takes the pick of those submissions - i hope - would take their time with that
<ochosi> (iirc it took us several hours last time)
<knome> it will be faster now since there is no manual process involved
<ochosi> (and by that i mean the discussions, not the individual sighting of the submissions)
<knome> eg. everybody who is eligible to vote logs in to the site, and clicks + or - on each submission
<knome> then we get the totals
<ochosi> yeah
<knome> at that point it's easy to fine-tune
<ochosi> last time we actually discussed quite a bit
<knome> yes
<flocculant> and who is currently elgible to vote? 
<flocculant> knome: ^^
<ochosi> judging from the blog post it's -team
<knome> flocculant, currently ~xubuntu-website but i can link any LP team to that by a few clicks
<ochosi> or someone in team
<knome> ^ technically
<knome> if we want -users to vote, then i need to write a few lines of code and a few clicks
<knome> (because we don't want to make users admins)
<ochosi> good thinking!
<ochosi> i dunno, personally i'm totally fine with a committee or some representatives of -team even to go and decide on this
<ochosi> i don't even have to be part of that select group
<ochosi> but anyway, the look and feel of xubuntu is currently in the hands of the artwork team
<knome> letting all -team vote would mean more perspectives would likely be represented
<ochosi> it's not really open to voting either
<knome> (of course artwork/XPL has always a veto)
<knome> ..not programming that in in the site
<ochosi>  we can also vote on who gets to vote (:
<knome> let's bury xubuntu in bureaucracy ;)
<knome> (not)
<knome> pleia2, as another old CC'er, what's your take on this?
<flocculant> night all - if the beta get's released real late and no-one is about to publish I'll do it in the morning 
<knome> flocculant, night and thanks for all the work so far :)
<flocculant> if not - thanks who ever is awake to do it 
<ochosi> flocculant: yup, thanks for the awesome work you did on the release notes!
<pleia2> I wasn't paying attention
<knome> again
<pleia2> <3
<knome> or during the whole CC term?
<pleia2> for 6 years!
<knome> yeah
<pleia2> I like -team
<knome> was discussion about who should vote for winners on the contest
<pleia2> and I was serious about not voting because I submitted one
<knome> you can just not vote on that
<knome> soon everybody on the team is uneligible
<pleia2> but I like it and want it to win :)
<knome> you, me, ochosi, bluesabre, flocculant already
<pleia2> hehe
<knome> then vote for it
<knome> i mean
<knome> it's just one +1
<knome> if nobody else likes it, it won't win anyway
<bluesabre> hm?
<knome> ÂµwÂ¿
<bluesabre> :\
<Unit193> bluesabre: Howdy.
<knome> Unit193, or in other order, "Why do"
<bluesabre> hey Unit193
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-25
<knome> i'm going to bed
<knome> release is going to be "today", so if somebody could push out the release announcement once it's out
<knome> or flocculant will do it in the morning
<knome> but -->
<bluesabre> nighty knome
<pleia2> beta2!
 * pleia2 misses witty quotes
<pleia2> flocculant: I'm going to publish this blog post, you'll be up soon enough to pull it if there's an emergency ;D but it looks fine to me
<pleia2> just in case, I didn't social media it yet
 * pleia2 sleep &
<flocculant> thanks pleia2 :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: As you likely saw, patches/0001-Only-check-for-known-buttons-in-_NET_WM_MOVERESIZE.patch is about to get uploaded to Debian, fixing freezes when clicking on the menu bar of KDE application.
<flocculant> knome: slideshow is fixed now, docs are correct (can't remember if they were yesterday)
<bluesabre> Unit193: I see, sounds useful, go ahead and sync that if you want or I can get it later
<bluesabre> and/or merge
<flocculant> morning bluesabre 
<Unit193> Merge, after freeze.
<bluesabre> yeah, but sounds like a good bugfix
<Unit193> Looking for a MOTU now. :/
<bluesabre> timo (always forget his nick) has been helpful the past few times
<Unit193> mitya?
<knome> Mirv
<bluesabre> yeah, Mirv
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> morning flocculant, knome
<flocculant> bluesabre: :)
<scilix> Hello
<scilix> I will ask.
<krytarik> Ftm, I'm with flocculant at the position on letting the community take part in the vote for the wallpaper contest - i.e. let anyone (incl. team) vote, then team or artwork gets a say - if it's too cumbersome for anyone, that's something different, and leaves the decision on taking part to them.
<krytarik> scilix: Howdy.
<scilix> krytarik: hello.
<scilix> Artwork wallpaper xubuntu what's theme?it's must logo xubuntu?
<knome> i'm not sure i understand the question
<scilix> What it's rule for submit artwork wallpaper xubuntu?
<knome> the terms and guidelines are listed at http://contest.xubuntu.org/help/terms/
<scilix> Ok thanks.
<pavlushka> I have links 2 installed but my default is firefox, problem is the ubuntu-bug opens the links 2 by default and OpenID tells me a bot.
<pavlushka> OpenID tells the "bad bot shoo"
<dkessel> pavlushka: try uninstalling links2 as a workaround
<pavlushka> thanks, dkessel for the suggestion.
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> lo
<bluesabre> hi knome
<knome> what's up?
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-26
<bluesabre> nm
<bluesabre> weekend finally here
<knome> true
<knome> any special plans?
<bluesabre> nope
<bluesabre> bug fixes, and finding some time to sleep
<knome> hah :)
<knome> bluesabre, ping, see #x
<pleia2> knome: eep, social media for b2
 * pleia2 gets to it
 * knome hangs our lazily in the sofa, looking at pleia2 run all over social media
<knome> *out
<pleia2> kk
<knome> i can tweet if you want though :P
<knome> did we change the twitter password?
<pleia2> no
<knome> nvm
<knome> i fail
<pleia2> I'm logged in already
<knome> kay
<knome> thanks pleia2 
<pleia2> all done
<knome> 39 wallpaper submissions
<knome> only have to pick 15%!
<pleia2> should social media the contest over the weekend again
<knome> i've socially mentioned it to a few people :P
<knome> ok, time to go to bed
<knome> ttyl
<bluesabre> night knome
<pavlushka> Q:  I never tried but is it possible to upgrade from 14.04 LTS to 16.04 LTS directly?
<flocculant> pavlushka: try reading the b2 release notes
<pavlushka> flocculant, I am talking about the final stable release, is it possible?
<flocculant> if I could look forward 4 weeks I'd probably be more interested in the lottery numbers
<flocculant> I would hope so - I can't imagine Canonical releasing with their OS un-upgradable
<pavlushka> because some BD guy was telling that one has to upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04 through step by step using 14.10, then 15.04, then 15.10, then 16.04 LTS, that will ridiculous to no extent.
<flocculant> no idea what a BD guy is - but that's rubbish
<flocculant> and impossible in a supported environment as 2 of them are EOL 
<pavlushka> Some Bangladeshi Ubuntu user.
<pavlushka> Sorry "and impossible in a supported environment as 2 of them are EOL", I am not that technical.
<flocculant> end of life
<flocculant> there will be a direct upgrade lts to lts route at the end of April I would expect
<flocculant> there are 3 supported versions out there, 12.04/14.04 and 15.10 - though for us just 14.04 and 15.10
<pavlushka> thanks for the info's
<pavlushka> How can I upload a po file to LP?
<pavlushka> How can I upload a po file to LP?
<bluesabre> pavlushka: either submit a bug report with it attached, or find the translations page for the project (for example,catfish https://translations.launchpad.net/catfish-search) and submit via the online editor
<pavlushka> bluesabre, got it, thanks a million!
<bluesabre> ochosi: marking the pidgin theme as postponed, we'll work on getting that in for 16.10 (along with the repackaging of elementary-* themes)
<pavlushka> bluesabre, bug #1562338
<ubottu> bug 1562338 in apt (Ubuntu) "Need to upload po files to LP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1562338
<pavlushka> bluesabre, bug #1562338
<bluesabre> pavlushka: reassigned that to ubiquity-slideshow, I can't personally update that, but somebody else can
<pavlushka> ok
<bluesabre> flocculant, Unit193: postponing the xubuntu-core task for now... no progress for now
<bluesabre> (I might recommend we just apply to be in ubuntu-cdimage and take a different route to core/base)
<bluesabre> or
<bluesabre> do we keep it in if we're targeting 16.04.1?
<bluesabre> knome: blueprint master, thoughts?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Hah, "for now".  You're funny!
<flocculant> bluesabre: postpone it - see what happens for .1 
<flocculant> Unit193: :)
<Unit193> Or for 17.04? :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Oh, any thoughts on the future of packages in extras?
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm still in favor of getting them into the archive
<bluesabre> flocculant: alrighty
<flocculant> bluesabre: seems the most sensible course - then we can move to .2/.3/.4.17.04 in easy steps :p
<bluesabre> indeed
<bluesabre> flocculant: any high-priority stuff you need me to look at?
<flocculant> be good if blueman fix was simple
<flocculant> thought that was in hand upstream though
<bluesabre> doesn't seem to happen if there is some bluetooth hardware on the actual machine
<flocculant> indeed
<flocculant> so I get it everywhere ... 
<bluesabre> ha
<flocculant> bug 1513590
<ubottu> bug 1513590 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "unable to delete items in menulibre" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513590
<flocculant> is odd
<flocculant> either you can or you can't delete something - being able to make something deletable by moving the entry up or down seems not what we'd want
<bluesabre> added a comment
<flocculant> so did I :p
<bluesabre> in that case, you're just deleting the local one, the system one would remain and be visible, no?
<bluesabre> it's deleteable then because it is no longer the system launcher
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> so it doesn't delete - but asks all the stuff it would if you were going to delete it
<flocculant> but cool - can mark it invalid or something 
<bluesabre> probably mostly semantics
<flocculant> bug 1402036
<ubottu> bug 1402036 in Mugshot "Mugshot authentication failed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1402036
<bluesabre> in alacarte, it's probably "delete" that hides, but that should really be "hide" I'd think, makes it clearer that its non-destructive
<flocculant> yea
<bluesabre> dang
<bluesabre> the same fix in catfish would be good for mugshot there
<bluesabre> but we're all frozen now
<flocculant> but not a bug fix? 
<bluesabre> maybe
<bluesabre> it's a rewrite
<bluesabre> in a lot of ways
<flocculant> oh right 
<bluesabre> for that particular bit
<bluesabre> using pkexec
<flocculant> which fixes a bug :p
<flocculant> yea
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> I'll get that together so you can kick the tires
<flocculant> ok - wfm :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: can't think of any other major things 
<flocculant> I still get the usb3 remount on eject - but that'll turn up one day I guess
<flocculant> bluesabre: I can't actually confirm that mugshot bug 
<flocculant> and I assume that trusty would have the trusty-updates version now
<flocculant> aah right - so I DID confirm dkessel's 1511979 a while back- that's with the same version I have now
<flocculant> but - it appears to work fine now
<flocculant> oh forget what I said - didn't read daniel's properly
<flocculant> so it still is an issue :)
 * flocculant wanders off to lie down again
<bluesabre> lp 1511979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1402036 in Mugshot "duplicate for #1511979 Mugshot authentication failed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1402036
<bluesabre> ah, gotcha
<knome> bluesabre, keep the item in th blueprints, as it's still active for 16.04
<knome> bluesabre, we never really tracked off-release work items sensibly, maybe we should have one "ongoing" blueprint we keep on updating and attach to all release umbrellas
<Unit193> Would think things could get more easily lost there.
<knome> why?
<knome> they would still show up in the tracker
<knome> it would be just something that was attached to the next umbrella, then next umbrella...
<bluesabre> I wouldn't be opposed
<flocculant> wouldn't it make sense to have a 16.04.1 attached to 16.10 or whatever the point release is during the cycle of? 
<knome> flocculant, that's one option too
#xubuntu-devel 2016-03-27
<pavlushka> I am facing a bug,  in thunar, file indexing service is malfunctioning.
<pavlushka> when I open file a, it opens some file b in the same directory and then if I open file b, it opens file a, obviously of same type.
<pavlushka> it happened in multiple occasions and for other directories.
<pavlushka> will fsck fix this issue?
<pavlushka> though the problem occurred in multiple partitions including root.
<pavlushka> hi krytarik !
<krytarik> Morning, pavlushka.
<pavlushka> Morning, krytarik !
<pavlushka> I am facing a bug,  in thunar, file indexing service is malfunctioning.
<pavlushka> when I open file a, it opens some file b in the same directory and then if I open file b, it opens file a, obviously of same type.
<pavlushka> it happened in multiple occasions and for other directories.
<pavlushka> will fsck fix this issue?
<pavlushka> though the problem occurred in multiple partitions including root.
<flocculant> pavlushka: why do you find it necessary to repeat things 
<pavlushka> flocculant, I repeated the thing after 1 hour 30 mins and after kryterik joined as he will not see that post, So I thought he might help, that's why.
<flocculant> very odd issue though - not something I've come across
<pavlushka> ok, I am filing a bug, but under which tag, thunar?
<flocculant> not sure
<dkessel> pavlushka: you could try something to see if thunar is the problem or the filesystem, which you are suggesting
<pavlushka> but multiple file system at a time?
<dkessel> you could open a terminal in the directory and try opening the file using xdg-open FILENAME
<dkessel> if that opens another file, something is seriously wrong ;)
<pavlushka> on it
<flocculant> if it works properly - I'd install something like pcmanfm and try there as well
<flocculant> you can also - add a user and try from there
<flocculant> eliminate as much as possible before deciding it is a bug and not just local 
<pavlushka> like to add, I faced the issue for newly copied or downloaded files, I've checked though not all possible, now I am not facing the issue in those particular cases , syncing delay I guess.
<bluesabre> flocculant: apparently user name and details can be updated with AccountsService... which might be a bigger patch for mugshot, but should solve many more issues :)
<flocculant> :)
<bluesabre> basically found reports where KDE was having the same issue, and they just moved to that
<flocculant> aah right
<bluesabre> so, thats neat
<flocculant> knome: not sure this is what you were expecting http://tracker.xubuntu.org/
<bluesabre> flocculant: I imagine you're probably right
<bluesabre> :D
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> also - topic :)
<bluesabre> Unit193: ^
<bluesabre> oh wow
<bluesabre> AccountsService is painless
<bluesabre> after hiding the dbus stuff behind some methods, changing real name is as easy as
<bluesabre> import AccountsServiceAdapter
<bluesabre> adapter = AccountsServiceAdapter.MugshotAccountsServiceAdapter("bluesabre")
<bluesabre> adapter.set_real_name("New Name")
<bluesabre> no passwords necessary :D
<flocculant> \o/
<dkessel> yay
<flocculant> as I thought - gnome software is designed to only show gui apps 
<flocculant> I guess we'll need to note that somewhere when we release
<bluesabre> seems like an interesting decision
<bluesabre> apparently, for whatever reason, you can change all user details with AS except phone numbers
<bluesabre> :\
<flocculant> ha
<flocculant> well gnome software thinks it's ok to leave dependencies behind as well - so hardly surprising - perhaps it can't see them once the gui app is removed :p
<bluesabre> flocculant: getting ready to head out, should have a new mugshot somewhere later (probably after you're asleep)
<bluesabre> some combo of pkexec and accounts service to cover all the bases
<bluesabre> bbl
<flocculant> bluesabre: ok - have a good day - speak tomorrow then perhaps :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Alright, congrats? :P  Keep in mind not everything exposed in Ubuntu is upstream though.
* knome changed the topic of #xubuntu-devel to: Xubuntu Development | Support at #xubuntu | http://dev.xubuntu.org/ | Release Schedule: http://ubottu.com/y/xx | Daily testing with results: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
<pleia2> social mediaed the wallpaper thing again
<flocculant> knome: ty :)
<knome> flocculant, np
<knome> flocculant, and actually yeah, i could see that coming
<knome> pleia2, should i ask canonical to discommission the subdomain?
<pleia2> knome: yeah
<knome> ok, doing that now
<pleia2> will likely take a couple days, I think they're having all the holidays at the moment
<knome> yeah, but at least it's then filed...
<pleia2> :)
<flocculant> thought it might be something like that :)
<flocculant> I filed it under websitey things 
<knome> and done
<knome> oh, well
<knome> flocculant, bug?
<flocculant> not on launchpad - in my head :)
<knome> hahah
 * knome pokes flocculant's brain and adds an "inprogress" tag to the issue
<flocculant> ha ha 
<knome> oops, i touched the appetite nerve
<knome> sorry! you'll always be hungry now
<knome> wait... no change in that
<flocculant> LOL
<flocculant> mmm
<flocculant> anyone got a xenial install handy
<flocculant> nvm
<flocculant> I must have turned it off :D
<knome> hahah
<knome> the brain?
<flocculant> just checking bugs in the tracker :)
<flocculant> bug 1543786 - looks fixed to me http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu-flavours
<ubottu> bug 1543786 in ubuntu-website-content "(Flavours Download) Please change Xubuntu's description-text" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1543786
<flocculant> knome: can the tracker look at all the 'affects' of a bug - and not leave it wip ? 
<flocculant> for example - bug 1548647
<ubottu> bug 1548647 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "LibreOffice in Xubuntu should be using Elementary theme as default" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548647
<flocculant> fix released for LO - and is
<flocculant> but that bug has x-art as confirmed - and of course hundredpapercuts pointlessly added to it too
<flocculant> no idea why he does that and NEVER actually fixes them
<flocculant> cynicism would look at some sort of 'hey 100papercuts and it's fixed' thing 
<knome> flocculant, that's hard because there is no "default" or "priority" target for bugs
<knome> what if fixing the bug indeed required fixing 3 packages?
<knome> i've been playing with the idea of moving the work item tracking to the code internally, eg. no loading from launchpad
<knome> if i do that, then it's relatively easy to mark which packages we're interested to track per bug
<knome> i mean at that point it's a relatively simple thing
<knome> not automatical, but yeah
<flocculant> ok - that makes sense as to why 
<knome> so when all targets are "fix released", then the bug is "done"
<knome> (just to confirm)
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> except the 100 cuts - never get marked fixed - because it seems to be drive by adding of it anyway
<knome> yes
<knome> while think the situation is silly, i don't think i care enough to actually want to ignore any target specifically
<flocculant> yep
<flocculant> just a pita - go looking at the tracker - scratch your head - mmm I'm sure that's fixed 
<flocculant> :)
<knome> yes
<knome> another option is to create an item for all targets for the bug individually
<knome> eg. in this case three different items
<bluesabre> Unit193: yup, got the code from upstream KDE and spec from Fedora
<knome> apparently i can change statuses for papercuts
<pleia2> \o/
<knome> bluesabre, tell me again, was the openid auth a pain and were you able to get the team data from LP?
<flocculant> knome: aah cool
<flocculant> mmm
<knome> but is the bug really fixed?
<flocculant> actually so can I :p
<knome> i mean, the status is not closed for x-a
<knome> does that package still need something else?
<knome> (unfortunately i haven't been following close enough to know)
<flocculant> no idea - not the only one with 100 on it 
<flocculant> knome: icons in LO is elementary 
<knome> ok
<bluesabre> knome: not generally a pain, but lp teams are addons to the spec
<knome> bluesabre, can you confirm this is good and that we don't need changes to x-a?
<knome> right
<bluesabre> knome, the LO theme?
<knome> yes
<bluesabre> It's fixed, the theme is now upstream libreoffice, so x-a is not applicable anymore
<knome> ok
<knome> ok, bug dealt with, now booting desktop up
<bluesabre> Thanks!
<flocculant> bluesabre: did we decide in the end that bug 1513590 isn't actually a bug - but expected behaviour with it? 
<ubottu> bug 1513590 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "unable to delete items in menulibre" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1513590
<flocculant> bluesabre: also "bluesabre to set up the next meeting"
<knome> :)
<knome> pleia2, would you be very angry at me if i just ported the tracker into a wordpress site? :P
<tracker7> Desperately needs help over here
<knome> who?
<tracker7> me
<knome> on what?
<tracker7> on kernel(?) freezes
<knome> when testing 16.04?
<tracker7> tried 14.04 15.10 16.04
<tracker7> 4.2 4.4 4.5 kernels
<knome> then you are likely looking for the user support channel at #xubuntu
<tracker7> ok, sry
<pleia2> knome: another wordpress site /o\
<knome> pleia2, that's why i asked first :P
<pleia2> is it getting that complicated? 
<knome> if possible, i would want to avoid the openid/LP auth hassle
<knome> that would be one of the easy choices since canonical people have figured it out perfectly
<pleia2> I mean, it's probably ok if we keep it updated and watch useage, but I've had to add caching to my wordpress instances of late because they're getting heafty
<knome> but of course there are options
<knome> and i'm not doing that *now*
<knome> just thinking about the future
<knome> that is, if we want to (mostly) move away from hammering the LP API every 30 mins
<knome> for a completely different option, what do you think about basic auth?
<pleia2> well, I wouldn't be very angry, but I'd want to make sure we'd evaluated our options sanely ;)
<pleia2> basic auth?
<knome> http basic auth
<knome> :Ã
<pleia2> oh, heh
<pleia2> meh
<knome> i know
<knome> but hey, that's easy...
<pleia2> I need to go eat food now
<knome> lol
<knome> does mentioning http basic auth make you hungry?
<knome> anyway, bon appetit
<knome> let's talk about this some other time/later
<flocculant> night all
<knome> nighty flocculant 
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-20
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r497 Add theming for workspace switcher (libwnck)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r498 Regenerate css for previous commit... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<flocculant> ochosi:ok - I'll give it a whirl later then :)
<flocculant> never actually managed to get all plugins to show up, which might be a deal breaker on herre
<ochosi> using the configure flags from xfce-test will help with that
<flocculant> ochosi: can't see any flags there - assuming you mean the schuellerf thing
<flocculant> anyway - too early for this :p
<ochosi> flocculant: https://github.com/schuellerf/xfce-test/blob/master/Dockerfile#L60
<ochosi> three lines of flags ;)
<flocculant> ochosi: thanks :)
<ochosi> np
<ochosi> lemme know whether it works as expected
<flocculant> yep - will do, playing in vm currently while I drink enough tea for a few hours :p
<flocculant> oh ok ... exo-2 not found - will have to carry on later :)
<flocculant> \o/ killed the vm now - I suspect that's nothing to do with panel master :)
<ochosi> haha, yeah, probably not
<ochosi> it's not a know VM killer
<Unit193> Installing libexo-2-dev and pkg-config seems happy with it.
<flocculant> mmm something is definitely up 
<flocculant> best just make sure it's not some other issue before I accuse xfce4-panel of actually being a vm killer :D
<flocculant> oh
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 : so - new vm - updated ok, added gtk3 ppa and now no desktop, purged ppa and get a desktop
<flocculant> which is bizarre because same ppa on hardware and have a desktop ;)
<Unit193> 0_o
<Unit193> Can you say what upgraded?
<Unit193> Mmmm, xfce4-settings is my guess.
<Unit193> garcon has been there since the beginning and couldn't really do that, xfwm4 and xfsettingsd are the only ones that might cause oddness.
<flocculant> Unit193: upgraded everything from gtk3 ppa except -settings and xfwm4, booted fine, did settings - booted fine, did xfwm4 and poof 
<flocculant> bluesabre: ^^ weirdnesses
<flocculant> ochosi: ./autogen.sh --enable-debug --enable-maintainer-mode --host=x86_64-linux-gnu \ --build=x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --libdir=/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu \
<flocculant> sigh
<flocculant> ochosi: configure: WARNING: unrecognized options: --enable-gtk3 :)
<flocculant> so have panel from master in vm and locally now - locally I have xfwm4 from gtk3 ppa and it's fine, vm refuses to have anything to do with that gtk3 ppa version *shrug*
<flocculant> bluesabre Unit193 - exactly what do we have xfceish that's gtk3 in iso? or - do we have new gtk3 things since 16.10 release? 
<bluesabre> evening all
<bluesabre> flocculant, so new xfwm no good for you?
<ochosi> hey bluesabre 
<Unit193> Stupid systemd..
<ochosi> fwiw, i just compiled xfwm4 from git master here and it works just fine
<ochosi> Unit193: what did it do now?
<bluesabre> ochosi, hiya
<bluesabre> notifyd? :D
<bluesabre> 4.13 def works here from what I can tell
<bluesabre> but I think we are considering the latest 4.12.x
<ochosi> oh right, notifyd
<Unit193> ochosi: Eh, nothing new.  Just the thing where it'll try to endlessly start lightdm, so you can't get to a TTY.
<Unit193> ochosi: Also, you try xfwm in VM?
<ochosi> no, i hardly use vms
<Unit193> ...And boot option 'text' doesn't work, nice.
<ochosi> bluesabre: i'll see how far i get with the release now
<Unit193> ochosi: He had an issue only in VM.
<ochosi> ah ok
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, notifyd release done
<knome> hello people
<ochosi> can i now go back to fixing GtkCalendar..?
<knome> ;)=
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-notifyd 0.3.6 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-notifyd-0-3-6-released-tp49023.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
<Unit193> I'll get there eventually, the Core iso was a bit old so have a lot of updates to do too. :P
<slickymaster> https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+merge/320437 â knome 
<knome> will look in a tiny bit
<slickymaster> knome, just bumped the version and add the rewording flocculant suggested
<knome> aha
<slickymaster> don't expected anything major 
<knome> so should we have a sprint with it then?
<slickymaster> tbh, we don't really have that much, if any, new to add
<knome> mhm
<slickymaster> I think we should proceed with a major revamp on the next LTS
<knome> yep
<knome> best start working on it early :P
<slickymaster> there's, of course, the mascot graphics you'll have to deal with
<knome> ugh.
<slickymaster> ytou already saw this knome? â http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/ubuntu-17-04-mascot-logo
<knome> nope
<slickymaster> I don't dislike that origami mouse
<knome> yep
<slickymaster> kinf of reminds me your first approach to our/xfce mouse
<slickymaster> back in 14.04
<knome> or at least one of them :P
<slickymaster> yes
<knome> bah, now i need to go listen to some classical
<knome> yeah, the merge proposal is very simple :P
<knome> merged and pushing
<knome> and pushed
<slickymaster> yes, but we can't keep perpetually rewriting the same text
<bluesabre> ochosi, thanks!
<bluesabre> bbabl
<knome> of course not
<slickymaster> any way, that computer made want to listen the goldberg variations
<knome> lol
<slickymaster> + me
<krytarik> I have spotted two things though: "<em>Try Ubuntu</em>", and "Xubuntu and it's users"
<knome> slickymaster: fwiw, "sudo apt install gir1.2-webkit-3.0"
<slickymaster> ack knome 
<slickymaster> thanks
<knome> np
<knome> krytarik, does the button say "Try Xubuntu" now? :P
<slickymaster> thnaks for spotting those krytarik 
<krytarik> knome: ..Did it before, and that was changed recently?
<knome> i don't think it always did at least
<knome> slickymaster, let's put it here as well... i'm thinking we might want to update the contribute slide
<knome> also re: the animal artwork, what if we just did something along the wallpaper for the last slide?
<slickymaster> https://code.launchpad.net/~slickymaster/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+merge/320438
<knome> you have seen the new wallpaper, right?
<slickymaster> â knome to correct those two erros krytarik spotted
<knome> oki
<slickymaster> I don't think I have seen it, knome 
<knome> https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/wall-1704/final.png
<slickymaster> oh that I have
<slickymaster> it's in the zesty box I have at work
<knome> yeah so
<knome> maybe do something like that
<knome> and pass the animal art
<slickymaster> I like it, it's my type of minimalistic
<knome> fixes pushed
<slickymaster> great, thanks knome 
<slickymaster> krytarik â
<slickymaster> even though I'm sure he's lurking in attention :P
<knome> yep, surely
<Unit193> Is apt-add-repository supposed to work?
<knome> yes?
<Unit193> OK.
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-21
<Unit193> flocculant: It's interesting because xfwm4 is drawing something over top of the screen, if you hit Ctrl+Alt+t then switch to a TTY and terminate xfwm4, you see the terminal.  I used --replace and --compositor=off, which "solves" this.
<krytarik> knome: ...The button should say "Try Xubuntu" too, yes. :P
<Unit193> Also likely would have been nicer earlier, final beta freeze now...
<bluesabre> evening (again)
<bluesabre> We'll try to get some things in after the beta if they seem reasonable
<bluesabre> It would have been better if I'd had a bit more computer time the past few days, but meh
<bluesabre> :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: new xfwm no good in vm - you would have heard a lot sooner if it had been on the real machine :)
<Unit193> Right, I'd have noticed too.  See my comment(s) earlier.
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> flocculant: You got a 32 VM?
<flocculant> no - but I can have one ;)
<flocculant> yes I do :p
<Unit193> Cooking up two versions, xfwm4_4.13.0-0ubuntu1+noepoxy_i386.deb just finished and the other will be done soon.
<flocculant> ok - well I'll look later today if I've got a link to them :)
<Unit193> sigma.unit193.net/source/
<flocculant> Unit193: okey doke
<flocculant> Unit193: you want me to check on hardware with it too?
<flocculant> can use the old zesty install
<Unit193> Don't see why.
<flocculant> ok
<flocculant> Unit193: both seem to work
<flocculant> needed libxpresent1 though
<Unit193> Eh?  They *both* work but 4.13 didn't?
<flocculant> yea
<flocculant> that said I didn't add the gtk3 ppa prior to trying these 2
<Unit193> I'm fairly sure I tried it without the new xfsettingsd...
<Unit193> Hrm..
<flocculant> redoing
<flocculant> Unit193: mmm
<flocculant> so now it boots with xfwm from ppa
<Unit193> Welp, I just did it today too, but on amd64 in vbox...
<flocculant> Unit193: ok - 32bit works with ppa xfwm4, 64 bit doesn't
<Unit193> Right, so those tests did nothing..Good to know..
<Unit193> Thanks.
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> well not strictly true - we did find that 32bit works ;)
<flocculant> Unit193: I guess 64bit packages would do more to tell at this point *shrug*
<Unit193> Right, and I'd build them, but my amd64 builder is still down. :/
<bluesabre> flocculant, Unit193, good thing we didn't just upload that then :)
<bluesabre> Do we think it might be a bug in xpresent, settings, or something else?
<Unit193> 64bit! :P
<flocculant> bluesabre: indeed that could have presented a facepalm :D
<flocculant> bluesabre: upgraded everything from ppa except settings - still no desktop
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello blue
<knome> sabre
<bluesabre> hiya k
<bluesabre> nome
<knome> ;)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-22
<bluesabre> flocculant, still unable to reproduce https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/parole/+bug/1667786 ... is there a sample file somewhere that I can use to test this? I've thrown a variety of videos at it with no luck
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1667786 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole 0.9.0 crashes when skipping any video" [Undecided,New]
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll try and find one, though I've not seen it crash - only not skip 
<bluesabre> morning all
<bluesabre> flocculant, ah, I thought you'd seen the crash
<bluesabre> do any videos successfully skip for you, because I have only one example where that does not work
<flocculant> bluesabre: I appear to see mouse not being able to select a point in a film - have to drag the slider
<bluesabre> flocculant, so none of this for you, http://imgur.com/a/nHmtJ, not seen that issue before
<flocculant> bluesabre: yup that's the kiddy - not able to do that here
<flocculant> jell.yfish.us/media/jellyfish-140-mbps-4k-uhd-h264.mkv
<flocculant> that one for example
<akxwi-dave> can confirm 1374887 on 32 bit version
<akxwi-dave> ignore that  sb bug 1667786
<ubottu> bug 1667786 in parole (Ubuntu) "Parole 0.9.0 crashes when skipping any video" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1667786
<akxwi-dave> plays fine but when skipping with slider the whole of parole just hands and crashes
<akxwi-dave> Works fine on 64bit version
<akxwi-dave> so bug only affecting me on 386 version of zesty
<flocculant> bluesabre: can crasj 32bit parole with one of those jellyfishy downloads
<ochosi> evening all
<bluesabre> oh boy, more arch-dependent bugs
<knome> hullo
<ochosi> yeah, yuck, we should just close the door on 32bit :]
<flocculant> ochosi: evening :)
<flocculant> bluesabre: yea ... 
<knome> tbh, that doesn't seem so bad any more; this decision would actually take serious effect at 18.04
<bluesabre> seems like that's slowly the direction everything is heading
<knome> yep
<knome> and if we want to give people with 32-bit systems consolidation, we can just say we'll support 16.04 for a bit longer
<knome> tbh, i'm not really sure how much that would even affect us
<knome> we haven't been doing any huge backporting operations anyway
<knome> so theoreticall if we supported 16.04 for a year or two longer, would that just mean there was a slight traffic bump on #x?
<bluesabre> I'd imagine so
<knome> the amount of support questions doesn't seem too overwhelming at the current rate, even if you considered the questions that are about EOL releases
<knome> (and tbh, we already kind of reply something to them anyway, just usually not an answer)
<knome> (like "update to X first, then Y")
<flocculant> the only other thing would be people ignoring calls to test at point releases ;)
<knome> i guess, but isn't our support extending to all the point releases already?
<knome> or all minus one?
<knome> my point is that there's not much to maintain at that point, and unless something huge lands in, it doesn't seem to affect even testing much (there's not much new to test)
<bluesabre> yup
<Unit193> I'd have to switch to something else. :3
 * bluesabre doesn't want to abandon Unit193
<knome> do you want a band on Unit193 then?
<knome> however you interpret that
<Unit193> knome: To be clear, netbook really isn't that old, it's just something they did with netbooks. :/
<knome> yeah...
<Unit193> The Pentium M is a bit dated, but still works. :P
<knome> a lot of things still *work*
<knome> whether it's sensible for a modern operating system to support everything is a different thing
<knome> and what about lubuntu? are they still keeping their 32-bit systems?
<Unit193> I'd only presume.
<knome> they are the ones that want to support the lowest specs here anyway
<knome> xubuntu has went away from the "lightweight" for a good time already
<knome> not to say we don't care about the lower end machines any more, just that we value the benefits from deciding against them here and there enough to do it
<knome> or sth
<Unit193> Not arguing that, just 32bit arch.
<knome> sure
<knome> but you mentioned but netbooks and pentium M
<knome> neither of those are in the high end machine group
<knome> putting it like that because some of the netbooks might not exactly be in the low end group either... but then i don't have much experience/information on that
<Unit193> Netbooks tend to be small form factor, generally lower power such that they use less battery.
<knome> yep
<knome> i know that
<Unit193> Ah, OK.
<knome> i was just meaning i don't have exact idea if one could call them all low-end machines
<Unit193> Considering it came with Win 7 or so, I don't see your argument of "Xubuntu is too heavy" a good thing. :P
<knome> no no, i specifically wanted to avoid that argument
<Unit193> Pretty sure you could call at least all the 32bit ones low-end.
<knome> hence "aren't high end" vs. "are low end"
<Unit193> Heh, OK.  And in case you missed it, I called the PM dated too. :P
<knome> right, so in that regard not being able to support 32-bit netbooks is the same as not being able to support some low-end machines... which we are kind of doing already
<knome> yeah, pentium M is dated, i know that
<Unit193> (Though I'm not putting LXDE on it, Xfce works fine, except xfwm quirks of course.)
<knome> that's in the low-end category for sure - just wasn't completely sure about the netbooks
<knome> so again, what i was trying to say is that dropping the 32-bit ISO seems to have a lesser effect than it might feel like it does
<knome> after taking a look and think about the 32-bit machines that are the target group for xubuntu
<Unit193> iooijoij
<Unit193> ...Whoops.
<knome> so if we drop the 32-bit ISOs, wouldn't the people with, say, 32-bit 16.10 installations still be able to upgrade (with the arch-dependent bugs)
<knome> so we wouldn't be affecting those people immediately by breaking the universe for them, just bits of it
<knome> on the other hand, new installations would only kind of be affected starting from 18.04 since we could just point people with 32-bit machines to install 16.04
<knome> and also as far as testing goes, if we didn't need to test the 32-bit ISO for the new releases, we would likely be moving that workforce for the 16.04 point releases flocculant was worried about
<knome> if we wanted to go with extending the support time as a consolidation
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-23
<Unit193> bluesabre: Pushed notifyd.
<krytarik> Not /20
<krytarik> Ooop.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r499 Improve style of GtkCalendar... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<flocculant> knome: final beta is publishing - don't know if you did anything for blog
<knome> nope
<knome> but i guess if we don't have much to say...
<akxwi-dave> :-)
<flocculant> knome: guess not - I guess the proper release there'll be things to say - new things - fixed things
<knome> yep
<akxwi-dave> are we actually supposed to do that.. ?
<knome> to do what?
<akxwi-dave> fix things.. :-)
<flocculant> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-24
<bluesabre> akxwi-dave, of course not
<bluesabre> evening all
<knome> hello
<bluesabre> hi knome
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://www.openssl.org/blog/blog/2017/03/20/license/
<Unit193> It's a blogblog.
<bluesabre> Unit193, what was the license before?
<Unit193> bluesabre: BSD4?  Whatever it was, made it incompatible with GPL.  Now it works for GPLv3, just not GPLv2 (So in theory if something is GPL-2+, you can set a build-dep on libssl-dev)
<bluesabre> neat
<bluesabre> I just kinda assume that everything is gpl, and then I'm always surprised
<Unit193> OpenSSL License and the SSLeay License.
<Unit193> bluesabre: That'd be a good way to get in trouble. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193, indeed :D
<bluesabre> "What do you mean Windows is not GPL!?"
<Unit193> Paha. :D
<Unit193> "I thought decompiling was fine, I just didn't see the source"
<Unit193> We have upload permissions for xfdash.
<flocculant> \o/
<flocculant> is that good ?
<flocculant> :p
<Unit193> Means we can finally upload our own package, so yep. :P
<flocculant> :)
<flocculant> is it going to make it as far as the seed :)
<Unit193> Why would we seed it?
<flocculant> why do we seed anything? 
<Unit193> Because someone bribes me.
<Unit193> Oh wait..
 * knome doesn't confess anything
<flocculant> heh
<flocculant> evening knome :)
<knome> helloooooo!
<flocculant> not that I actually use it ...
<knome> me neither
<Unit193> That's why we wouldn't ship it!
<knome> lol
<flocculant> nice to have options though
<knome> i don't think it's a bad idea to care about packages even if we don't ship them
<flocculant> Unit193: well I don't use half the things we ship
<Unit193> Based on PPA numbers it should certainly be in the repos though.
<flocculant> mmm - like the rest of us :p
<knome> i'll support that motion too
<Unit193> Everyone knows I do..
<flocculant> :)
<knome> Unit193, do you even use 10% of the things? :P
<Unit193> ...We're counting base libs too right?
<flocculant> on 32bit he does
<flocculant> lol Unit193 :)
<knome> Unit193, even then? :P
<Unit193> knome: Pretty sure I use a lot more than 10%.  But yes, of course I support the idea of caring about something even if I don't use it.
<flocculant> sums us all up :)
<knome> so.... will Unit193 start pushing to get that in the repositories?
<knome> and does he need any help?
<Unit193> that == ?
<knome> 00:10  Unit193: Based on PPA numbers it should certainly be in the repos though.
<Unit193> It already is.
<knome> oh.
<knome> well... good hten :P
<Unit193> Sean and I got it in, we just couldn't upload directly.
<knome> ah, goodie
<Unit193> His mail to -permissions went unanswered, but turns out they did something.
<knome> :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-25
<bluesabre> morning all
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hey flocculant 
<bluesabre> Unit193, that's good news :)
#xubuntu-devel 2017-03-26
<Unit193> xfwm4 4.13.0-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfwm4/news/20170326T152155Z.html
<Unit193> xfwm4 4.12.4-1 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfwm4/news/20170326T152143Z.html
<Unit193> Hmm.  Mateusz Åukasik doesn't know how to do dbgsym migrations...
<Unit193> xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin 2.1.1-1 uploaded to experimental by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/news/20170326T220358Z.html
<Unit193> parole 0.9.1-1 uploaded to experimental by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac) https://packages.qa.debian.org/p/parole/news/20170326T222251Z.html
<knome> huh. did we start using colors? :P
<Unit193> Nope, not new at all.
<knome> (:
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-19
<ali1234> i think there's a performance regression with proot/qemu-user
<ali1234> yeah definitely... it's about 400x slower than it was in 16.04
<ali1234> that script should take 12 minutes but it has been runnin for 12 hours now
<Unit193> That...Sounds like something is actually messed up.
<ali1234> oh yeah definitely
<ali1234> "grep -R hello" inside an arm chroot takes 0.02 seconds on 16.04, 24 seconds on 18.04
<Unit193> retpoline!
 * Unit193 ducks.
<ali1234> could well be
<ali1234> although i have an up to date kernel on 16.04, so wouldn't that be affected?
<Unit193> I've only used qemu-user-static for pbuilder builds, but that's on Debian/testing.  Meltdown, yes, and I'd presume the kernel would be patched.  But from what I recall, applications themselves have to be built with a retpoline compiler.
<ali1234> bug 1756807
<ubottu> bug 1756807 in qemu (Ubuntu) "performance regression in qemu-user + proot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756807
<flocculant> knome: you going to call a meeting soon? if not I will - by the time it happens it'll be not long to final beta - and easter is between
<knome> it's my turn?
<knome> thanks for a reminder... :P
<knome> scheduled
<flocculant> knome: thanks
<knome> no
<knome> problem
<knome> :P
<flocculant> :
<flocculant> P
<ochosi> knome: any motivation regarding drawing that hidpi close icon?
<ochosi> just wondering since UIF is creeping up
<knome> ochosi, motivation maybe, time...
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-20
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 0.4.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0-4-0-released-tp50847.html (by Sean Davis-6)
 * Unit193 stabs blue...Wait no, that's OK.
<bluesabre> :)
<Unit193> Nice work on the first stable!
<Unit193> I think there's a few bugfix releases we need to pick up though.
<bluesabre> certainly
<Unit193> -settings, pa-plug, -terminal?
<bluesabre> yeah
<bluesabre> menulibre too, wondering how long PAPT is going to take to get a review
<bluesabre> Last time I uploaded to ubuntu while waiting, got scolded, and then got my debian upload :)
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> and lightdm-gtk-greeter, but waiting on Corsac to up that one to debian
<Unit193> Gah, yeah.  I still need to test my funky patch.
<bluesabre> Pretty much done tonight though... so back tomorrow to upload some things
<bluesabre> Feel free to package anything you wanna package :)
<bluesabre> nighty allllll
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm-gtk-greeter/2.0.5-0ubuntu1 uploaded to make sure it makes UIF
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-settings/4.12.3-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin/0.4.0-0ubuntu1
<bluesabre> Unit193: you want to pick up the terminal upload?
<ochosi> bluesabre, Unit193: kewl, thanks for all the uploads!
<Unit193> I haven't done anything.  I want to update this one in Debian. :3
<Unit193> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal/0.8.7.2-0ubuntu1
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - i386 - i386 built.
<flocculant> Unit193: is 64 bit going to rebuild? and will they get updated on download page? 
<flocculant> people asking ;)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 18.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
<flocculant> half ansered then :p
<Unit193> I just set them to build at the same time usually.  I haven't given them a smokeboot yet.
<Unit193> "Download page"?
<flocculant> your page
<Unit193> Directory listing?  Yeah, just did.
<flocculant> okey doke - thanks :)
<Unit193> Debian 893639
<ubottu> Debian bug 893639 in xfce4-indicator-plugin "Please update debian/patches/01_ayatana.patch to fully support NG Indicators" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/893639
<Unit193> flocculant: People asking?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-21
<Unit193> I PPA'd a thing.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-default-settings:: [trunk] r674 Launchpad automatic translations update. (by Launchpad Translations on behalf of xubuntu-dev)
<Unit193> Sooo...
<Unit193> bluesabre: Which PPAs plan to support all of Bionic's lifecycle?
<flocculant> Unit193: yea - asking about core
<Unit193> "It contains only the latest and greatest virii"
<flocculant> :P
<flocculant> I didn't think it had gnome software
<Unit193> I, err, might heavily object to that, yes.
<flocculant> :D
<Unit193> It mainly has numlockx so you won't kill me. :3
<Unit193> (Nah, underlaying stuff like that would be a bear to track down, only makes sense to seed.)
<flocculant> :)
<Unit193> So, would you heavily object if I asked about linking Core at the bottom of the least read release announcements/notes?
<flocculant> Unit193: nope - I'd not object to you asking about that, nor would I object to doing it :p
<Unit193> I entirely understand if the release people don't approve, tis fine.
<flocculant> on the techy one? https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes
<flocculant> assuming you've got access - add it there yourself - beforre Changelogs I think would be best
<Unit193> I think I do, also changelogs for xubuntu-(core,desktop,wallpapers) are for the binary packages, not sources, thus 404.
<flocculant> can you edit those at the same time then please :p
<Unit193> Yeah.
<flocculant> cheers - someone mentioned that a short while ago - and I forgot to do anything about it 
<flocculant> Unit193: you realise that once 18.04 releases I'll copy that note to 18.10 - so anything you add will be there as well? 
<flocculant> don't suppose that's an issue though until it's finally official ...
<flocculant> ...
<Unit193> Don't think I see any problem.
<flocculant> Unit193: I'll leave it to you then - if you've not got access - get it :D
<flocculant> or pm me what you want to say there
<flocculant> bbl
<ali1234> flocculant: you can remove bug 1756614 from the blueprint - it turned out the bug was entirely caused by a non-xubuntu package
<ubottu> bug 1756614 in indicator-cpufreq (Ubuntu) "indicator-cpufreq sets a bogus icon theme path" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756614
<bluesabre> !team | Opinion on color emoji? We opted to use the non-color Symbola emoji font for 18.04, but I wanted to confirm that there was a consensus on this. See below link for more information.
<ubottu> Opinion on color emoji? We opted to use the non-color Symbola emoji font for 18.04, but I wanted to confirm that there was a consensus on this. See below link for more information.: team is akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/+bug/1746310
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1746310 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Drop fonts-symbola from platform?" [Undecided,Fix released]
<bluesabre> Color: https://ubuntucommunity.s3-us-east-2.amazonaws.com/original/1X/73d2960cc39ab675cf6ad2a0639d4791695edd74.jpg
<bluesabre> Symbola: https://i.imgur.com/bnUpVoP.png
<bluesabre> It should also be noted that this is only for support in GTK+ 3 applications. QT doesn't support it, Firefox ships their own support, and Chromium does it's own thing.
<knome> personally i don't think we need to ship any emoji...
<knome> that said, i guess if you want stuff like emoji, color is what you'd likely prefer
<knome> whether those fit into the xubuntu looks... dunno
<akxwi-dave> hmm.. prefer the colour ones personally.. but very rarely use emojis  ðº ð¤­  ð â·ï¸ðï¸ðð¥ ð§ððððï¸ð­ð
<slickymasterWork> my I'm with knome, personally I don't see the need in shipping emojis but if we do, then I'd go with the colour ones
<donofrio_> how do I fix this https://pastebin.com/PqZ7mEBR
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'm +1 to the majority - if there's no majority - I'm +1 what the dev team decide :p
<flocculant> ali1234: did that - pretty sure you could have too
<ali1234> flocculant: i'm not actually sure where the blueprint is. i only know that bug was on it cos of the little icon next to my list of bugs...
<flocculant> ali1234: ok :)
<flocculant> ftr you cand get to the blueprints from dev.xubuntu.org
<pleia2> color emoji!
<Unit193> I'm the only one that'd prefer symbola?  We ship a lot of GTK2, and as stated the color option isn't supported in Qt.
<pleia2> yes
<pleia2> what happens in GTK2 apps when it "isn't supported"?
<Unit193> I presume it shows the typical ò
<pleia2> that won't do :(
<pleia2> I'd rather have them render B&W everywhere than broken in half the places
<Unit193> I don't know for sure, I have symbola.
<ochosi> meh, did i miss anything?
<Unit193> Since you disconnected or when?
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> stupid bouncer randomly reboots and doesn't reconnect irssi :/
<Unit193> I'm fairly confused, I'm pretty sure I recently tried this but dropbox indicator works in sn-plug.
<Unit193> I'm wondering if a dropbox update in the meantime finally fixed it?
 * Unit193 shrugs.
<ochosi> i'd say if it works now there
<ochosi> 's less to worry about
<ochosi> Unit193: any idea when/where/how the icon cache for elementary-xfce is created?
<ochosi> the -darkest variant doesn#t seem to have one for some reason
<ochosi> i thought it happens in the xubuntu-artwork package, but seemingly not
<ochosi> (or i overlooked it)
<Unit193> 	if which update-icon-caches >/dev/null 2>&1 ; then
<Unit193> 		update-icon-caches /usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce /usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-dark /usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-darker
<Unit193> 	fi
<Unit193> ochosi: -darkest is just a symlink to -darker.
<ali1234> it isn't... it contains symlinks, but it is a real directory and needs its own icon cache
<ochosi> but the appearance dialog shows the corresponding warning
<ochosi> ali1234: thanks for reporting that bug, i had forgotten about it again...
<Unit193>                                 $needs_cache = 1 if -f and (/\.png$/ or /\.svg$/ or /\.xpm$/ or /\.icon$/);
<ochosi> Unit193: right, so what do you suggest? just ignore the complaint of appearance settings and say it's expected?
<Unit193> ochosi: I simply answered as to "why" it was happening.
<ochosi> sry, my question wasn't ironic
<ochosi> just wondering how to best fix this or if at all
<ochosi> but currently still working on a greybird fix, so i'm happy if you'll take a look
<Unit193> Just making it clear I'm not saying we shouldn't, just "why" it's happening.  One could simply add a rule like the above for darkest?
<ali1234> what does that do? search for those file types?
<ali1234> if so that's the problem. darkest doesn't contain any... it symlinks them. but it is still expected to have a cache
<Unit193> dh_icons is what generates the update-icon-caches command from above, that is the search method it uses.
<Unit193> I'd argue it should also look for index.theme.
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> really why search at all?
<ochosi> Unit193: i'd tend to agree: if searching at all, it should also search for index.theme
<ali1234> what are darker and darkest for anyway?
<ochosi> distinguishes between panel and toolbar stuff
<ochosi> so darker is bright icons for a dark panel and dark icons for the toolbar
<ochosi> and darkest is dark monochrome icons for panel and toolbar
<ochosi> all of that is completely superfluous with symbolic icons and gtk3
<ochosi> so as soon as panel, thunar etc. are used in their gtk3 versions, we can get rid of all of that
<bluesabre> re: emoji fonts, pretty sure the color emoji can only be rendered in gtk3, they'll be b&w everywhere else
<bluesabre> I don't mind the b&w, but thought it was fair to ask
<ochosi> bluesabre: heya! i need your package update magic before UIF
<ochosi> what's my deadline?
<ochosi> i just pushed a boatload of updates to elementary-xfce, so that's pretty much ready to ship
<bluesabre> ochosi: UIF is tomorrow :D
<ochosi> but in greybird from git master there is a tiny regression currently (only certain rare gtk2 widgets affected), unfortunately it seems hard to fix, but then again it would probably be bugfix anyway, no?
<bluesabre> ochosi: if elementary-xfce is ready, I'll confirm the dangling icons are not present
<bluesabre> ochosi: yes, bugfix
<ochosi> k
<ochosi> so i'll do a release of greybird and we'll see if i get to a bugfix before final freeze
<bluesabre> I have something else for you with Greybird, in Chrome with GTK theme, the window controls are rendered 2x and blurry
<ochosi> and for elementary-xfce i'll do a release now
<bluesabre> ochosi: waaaaait
<ochosi> and we can also pull them into xubuntu-artwork
<bluesabre> one sec :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> i recently fixed some chrome rendering issues though with greybird, maybe different ones
<ochosi> can check
<ochosi> what version?
<ochosi> i have 64.0
<ochosi> and the window controls with gtk look ok
<ochosi> but i also don't have hidpi
<ochosi> if that's what you're asking
<bluesabre> the version I have at work... might be old :)
<ochosi> hehe
<ochosi> anyway, that's another bugfix imho
<bluesabre> agreed
<bluesabre> and not seeing it now
<bluesabre> so maybe just fixed recently
<ochosi> what's only half-ready in greybird currently (and what i'm not going to finish for 18.04 probably) is the hidpi support for CSD
<bluesabre> that's fair
<ochosi> but as xfwm4 also doesn't have a hidpi theme yet, it's probably not a huge problem
<ochosi> i'd love to add it, but i still lack some icons (the basic ones are there though)
<ochosi> and knome is slacking... :D
<bluesabre> 1 sec might be more, lp:xubuntu-artwork is a behemoth
<ochosi> hehe, i know
<ochosi> i also added almost 1000 icon changes in the last days
<ochosi> drawing and scaling lots of crap
<ochosi> to be able to pull in all the upstream goodness
<bluesabre> really did the cleaner emblems that landed sometime recently
<bluesabre> *dig
<ochosi> which ones? the colored circles?
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> that was a different theme
<bluesabre> sorry for my infidelity
<ochosi> currently we don't really have that many emblems
<ochosi> :o
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> it's ok, i'm sure you also switched to arc already ;)
<ochosi> (or whatever is hip these days)
<bluesabre> ochosi: got a few dangling symlinks
<bluesabre> Checking dangling symlinks (after)
<bluesabre> lrwxrwxrwx 1 15 Mar 21 18:58 wip/elementary-xfce/actions/128/stock_delete.png -> edit-delete.png
<bluesabre> lrwxrwxrwx 1 15 Mar 21 18:58 wip/elementary-xfce/actions/128/editdelete.png -> edit-delete.png
<bluesabre> lrwxrwxrwx 1 15 Mar 21 18:58 wip/elementary-xfce/actions/128/stock_not.png -> edit-delete.png
<bluesabre> lrwxrwxrwx 1 31 Mar 21 18:58 wip/elementary-xfce/actions/128/edit-delete.png -> ../../places/128/user-trash.png
<bluesabre> lrwxrwxrwx 1 15 Mar 21 18:58 wip/elementary-xfce/actions/128/gtk-delete.png -> edit-delete.png
<bluesabre> ochosi: actually prefer greybird these days
<bluesabre> just the most compatible with everything
<ochosi> \o/
<ochosi> is those all dangling symlinks?
<ochosi> i can quickly fix those..
<bluesabre> seemingly
<bluesabre> once those are fixed, we should be in good shape
<bluesabre> ready for both releases :)
<bluesabre> going to get ice cream, bbiab
<ochosi> fixed
<ochosi> already pushed it
<bluesabre> testing again
<bluesabre> good to go
<ochosi> yay
<ochosi> enjoy the ice-cream
<ochosi> i'll tag both releases then
<bluesabre> thx
<ochosi> thanks for doing the last-minute upload
<bluesabre> it's my speciality
<bluesabre> been doing it for years now
<ochosi> :D
<ochosi> it's gonna be a pretty awesome release actually
<ochosi> much more goodness all over the place than expected
<bluesabre> definitely
<Unit193> bluesabre: Looks like the b/w versions are basically fallback, and incomplete in my testing.
<Unit193> And yeah, really don't work so well in Qt, so I'd be in favor of symbola.
<ochosi> bluesabre: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce/releases/tag/elementary-xfce-0.11
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/893746
<ubottu> Debian bug 893746 in dh-autoreconf "dh-autoreconf: Consider adding support for Xfce packages (via xdt-autogen)" [Wishlist,Open]
<bluesabre> Unit193: I'm in favor of symbola for the consistency between desktops
<bluesabre> ochosi: much appreciated
<bluesabre> lol
<bluesabre> something locked dpkg while I was installing updates
<ochosi> bluesabre: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird/releases/tag/v3.22.7
<ochosi> nighty!
<ochosi> and thanks again
<bluesabre> ochosi: thanks! have a good night
<Unit193> bluesabre: Also talked to the dh-autoreconf maintainer first, he'll look after bionic release.
<bluesabre> Unit193: nice
<Unit193> May I presume that you don't plan to migrate any of the packages to git?
<bluesabre> not currently planning on git migrations, maybe before 18.04 release though
<Unit193> (Meant pkg-xfce svn/git.)
<bluesabre> probably not
<bluesabre> you should see the messes I'm making in PAPT land
<Unit193> There's a nice migration script at least!  But yeeah, I don't want to push any either. :3
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-22
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/18.04.3
<Unit193> bluesabre: You didn't adapt the packaging to account for the issue listed above?
<bluesabre> uh
<bluesabre> didn't realize there was a change needed
<Unit193> \o/
<bluesabre> Is there? :D
<Unit193> There was discussion about the icon cache, yeah.
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> And still not sure what the patch should be :D
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/3.22.7-0ubuntu1
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r333 Update elementary-xfce to 0.11 (by Sean Davis)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r334 Release 18.04.3 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Right, so dh_icons finds the icon themes and adds a call to update-icon-caches, except 'darkest' contains symlinks rather than the files it knows to expect, thus a problem.  One would add a call to the maintainer scripts for darkest.
<Unit193> I didn't see anything in dh_icons you could add to just include the dir.
<Unit193> Specifically, postinst and postrm.
<bluesabre> So, should just need postinst then? http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/WRQRmvy9Sp/
<Unit193> No.
<Unit193> postrm too.
<Unit193> You should really guard that..
<Unit193> bluesabre: Just copy from the generated version?
<bluesabre> would you remove the cache file then?
<bluesabre> or just try generating in case it's there
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/708391
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/708392 install version.
<Unit193> Gah, let me be slightly more clear.  That's the existing postinst and postrm versions as they stand, generated.
<bluesabre> gotcha
<bluesabre> Unit193: so https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-art/xubuntu-artwork/bionic/revision/335 should be the complete patch, right?
<Unit193> ...Well I guess that's one way to do it, sure.
<bluesabre> :(
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r335 Generate icon theme caches for all included icon themes (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> Hmm?
<Unit193> I know what I was supposed to do today.
<flocculant> lucky you 
<flocculant> I usually find out too late 
<Unit193> "The community based [Xubuntu core|https://xubuntu.org/news/introducing-xubuntu-core/] ISOs can be downloaded from the [contributor's site|linkie]  perhaps?
<ochosi_> crap. i guess i just lost some more irssi history...
<ochosi_> (read up on the irc log)
<Unit193> Shouldn't have, run of the mill netsplit, then you showed up with a tail.
<Unit193> ochosi_: You happen to know what doesn't show up if indicators aren't enabled/working on lightdm-gtk-greeter?
<bluesabre> Unit193: for us, nothing... we only use the greeter's native "indicators"
<Unit193> Gah..
<Unit193> Is there some way to test this?
<bluesabre> indicators = power
<bluesabre> and install indicator-power
<bluesabre> vs indicators = ~power (which is the native indicator)
<Unit193> Cool, will do.
<bluesabre> keep in mind that I haven't tested the indicator support in years :)
<Unit193> Well crap, I wanted to make sure linking against the new indicators didn't give regressions. :P
<Unit193> It builds, ldd agrees... :P
<Unit193> bluesabre: Snagged the new whisker the other night.
<Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-mate/+git/ubuntu-mate-artwork/tree/etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf.d/99_ubuntu-mate.conf they don't either.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, it may be a completely unused feature
<bluesabre> Unless some users use it
<bluesabre> the new xfce4-terminal no longer drops down correctly when bound to a keyboard shortcut
<bluesabre> bind F12 to: `xfce4-terminal --drop-down` to check
<Unit193> I launched that directly and got two tray icons.
<Unit193> Now, which "new" one?
<Unit193> 0.8.7.2?
<bluesabre> yeah, that one
<bluesabre> latest packaged one
<bluesabre> switched to guake this morning in the interim
<bluesabre> I depend on that functionality :)
<Unit193> Uh oh.
<bluesabre> gnome 3.28 apps and libraries started landing in today's iso, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes?do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1521625095&rev2%5B1%5D=1521716290&difftype=sidebyside
<bluesabre> gstreamer too it seems
<bluesabre> updateed cheese might affect mugshot
<Unit193> Why the new indicator libs?
<bluesabre> "Have -dev package depend on libgtk2.0-dev or libgk-3-dev according to its pkgconfig file (LP: #1757574) (LP: #1757574)"
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1757574 in libappindicator (Ubuntu) "development libraries missing depends listed in *.pc files" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1757574
<Unit193> I may have made a change, yeah.  That's just header packages though (I did not write that commit.)
<Unit193> Also you didn't even look! https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-terminal/commit/?id=2f6db7f83c6db2e12e76ebb4a75ff1bd3eea38cf
<bluesabre> aha
<bluesabre> yay
<bluesabre> huh
<bluesabre> jbicha's "t" key seems to be going out
<bluesabre> "libgk-3-dev"
<bluesabre> and in debian unstable, glib2 depends on python-distuils :)
<Unit193> I saw some people unhappy about that, yeah.  Didn't bother reading what the annoyance was about this time though. :3
<Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/g/glib2.0/news/20180322T105208Z.html
<Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/893773
<ubottu> Debian bug 893773 in libglib2.0-dev-bin "libglib2.0-dev-bin: Depends on uninstallable python3-distuils (typo?)" [Serious,Fixed]
<bluesabre> mhm
<bluesabre> blocking my menulibre upload :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: https://packages.qa.debian.org/liba/libayatana-appindicator/news/20180322T105237Z.html ? :3
<Unit193> "Oh, you get around" :3
<FurretUber> I've updated Xubuntu 18.04 and now the icons from the gtk windows are strange. Gedit example: https://i.imgur.com/5JzSJf1.png Theme: Adwaita Dark
<FurretUber> The only themes with proper icons are Greybird and Breeze/Breeze Dark, all other have the minimize icon as a download button
<FurretUber> I have tested on Ubuntu and this have not happened
<ali1234> FurretUber: that's gtk3 right?
<ali1234> hmm yes i see that too
<ali1234> to reproduce: theme: anything other than greybird, icon theme: elementary xfce
<ali1234> FurretUber: do you have any idea when it started happening?
<FurretUber> ali1234: Yes. Today, 6 hours ago I updated the system and xubuntu-icon-theme was updated
<ali1234> what did you update from?
<FurretUber> I think I haven't understood the question. I was using Xubuntu 18.04, opened synaptic, reloaded the repositories and chose to update the packages
<flocculant> ali1234: have iso from the 21st - all looks ok there
<ali1234> so do i
<ali1234> actually mine is a bit older
<flocculant> I have a handful from March - keep a month locally of when I've zsynced the ios
<ali1234> well there was indeed a xubuntu-icon-theme update yesterday
<ali1234> * Update elementary-xfce to v0.11
<flocculant> ochosi_ bluesabre ^^ best undo what we did there :)
<ondondil> I can confirm. Download button instead of minimize. Up to date ISO from beta release. Icon theme: elementary-xfce-darker
<ali1234> diffing the source now
<ali1234> xubuntu-artwork/usr/share/icons/elementary-xfce-darkest/actions/symbolic/window-new-symbolic.svg changed... a lot
<ali1234> it looks like all the svg files have been super mangled
<ali1234> i can't tell if it is intentional
<ali1234> for example http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wDX2Trk6sS/
<knome> that almost looks like a plain, cleaned up SVG instead of an inkscape SVG with a lot of unused stuff (without seeing the visual changes this does)
<ali1234> i agree... but it is suspiciously short imo
<ali1234> it looks like someone tried to clean it and cleaned it too much...
<knome> yeah, don't know
<knome> what does the SVG look like?
<ali1234> well
<ali1234> the old one looks like how you'd expect the minimize button to look
<ali1234> the new one is the download icon that everyone is seeing
<knome> right
<knome> maybe that's intentional though
<ali1234> why only gtk3 though?
<knome> but i was merely asking if the SVG looks like... a real vector
<ali1234> oh yes the svg appears to be valid
<knome> aren't those icons drawn by xfwm with gtk2?
<ali1234> xfwm draws the theme
<knome> yes, and the buttons too
<knome> with gtk2
<knome> afaik...
<ali1234> yes, but it draws them according to how the theme tells it to
<knome> yep
<knome> the xfwm theme, not the icon theme :)
<ali1234> well the thing is
<ali1234> you only see these icons in gtk3 if you dont use the xubuntu theme (greybird)
<knome> right
<ali1234> so it seems weird for this to be intentional
<knome> so one could say this is a bug with all themes except greybird...
<ali1234> every theme except greybird and also every icon theme except elementary xfce
<knome> ;)
<ali1234> and also if you use both of those at the same time that is also bugged :)
<knome> you really should get ochosi_ to appear magically
<Unit193> bluesabre: Congrats on menulibre.
<knome> !conga-rats
<ubottu> â« samba rumba bueno la conga cha cha cha
<bluesabre> :)
<bluesabre> so, what's the issue?
<knome> dunno, but i'm out ;)
<bluesabre> the minimize button doesn't seem minimizey enough?
<knome> see you later
<bluesabre> oh
<bluesabre> seeya knome
<bluesabre> so the icon changes if it's not greybird + elementary-xfce
<bluesabre> I don't know where to begin with that, doesn't seem like a normal thing for the toolkit to do
<bluesabre> I don't know that I'd call that a download icon though
<bluesabre> ochosi_: any ideas?
<bluesabre> Shocked and pleasantly surprised to see the spotify snap integrates with mpris :)
<bluesabre> and running as a snap doesn't seem to break the wnck integration or anything
<bluesabre> :)
<ali1234> is it classic mode though?
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-23
<Unit193> bluesabre: Uploaded new vte to PPA.
<bluesabre> ali1234, dunno, had to turn to it since the current deb package depends on an old curl
<bluesabre> Unit193: thanks!
<ali1234> you'd know if it was classic mode because you'd have to accept that when installing it
<bluesabre> sudo snap install spotify 
<bluesabre> spotify 1.0.72.117.g6bd7cc73-35 from 'spotify' installed
<Unit193> Isn't there an info command or somesuch?
<bluesabre> nothing mentioned about classic or confinement
<bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/2.2.0-1
<bluesabre> next up, adding the bionic layout to xfpanel-switch and calling out for translations :)
<bluesabre> (tomorrow)
<pleia2> knome: gah, there are like 5022 wallpapers to vote on!
<pleia2> "I'll just do this real quick before dinner" /o\
<flocculant> thought it was close to 5023 to vote on :p
<knome> pleia2, sorry!
<ochosi> ali1234: yeah, i think i merged too many icons there from upstream, need to revert the window manager related icons
<ochosi> with >900 icons updated it was easy to overlook (especially as greybird doesn't use those icons anymore now and has its wm icons packaged so it also looks consistent with other icon themes)
<ochosi> it's only 3 icons or so, i'll revert those and push them
<ochosi> please test if it's more than minimize and maximize
<ochosi> ali1234: ok pushed to git
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r336 Close LP: #1756054 (by Sean Davis)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Where's the fixed terminal? :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: hiding under the couch maybe?
<Unit193> Crap, OK..
<bluesabre> :D
<bluesabre> Unit193: wasn't in a hurry to patch it
<Unit193> Seemed like you were. :>
<ochosi> hey guys
<Unit193> Anywho, g'morning.
<ochosi> feel free to test the icon patch i pushed to git (those of you who care to reproduce)
<ochosi> that would be a bugfix anyway and not subject to UIF
<Unit193> ..I could sooo make a bad joke here.
<bluesabre> Unit193: btw, saw a vte update in today's manifest, https://wiki.bluesabre.org/bionic_changes?do=diff&rev2%5B0%5D=1521716290&rev2%5B1%5D=1521797096&difftype=sidebyside
<Unit193> Yep.
<bluesabre> Unit193: as for the terminal, I dropped in guake so wasn't super bothered in the short term
<Unit193> And I saw that xserver-xorg-video-ati landed too, can drop my own version. \o/
<Unit193> bluesabre: I kind of like this, I should sub to it maybe or at least look more. >_>
<Unit193> Feel free to link it any time.
<bluesabre> Unit193: yeah, need to automate it, but it's pretty handy for daily comparison
<Unit193> Ah, thought it was automated.
<bluesabre> I have a script that generates the manifest listing
<bluesabre> paste it into dokuwiki and get a diff
<bluesabre> so, mostly automated
<Unit193> tumbler 0.2.0-2 uploaded by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<bluesabre> Unit193: it's ugly but functional, https://gist.github.com/bluesabre/6567eca05e3c8c121286cc4fcbfe5762 :)
<Unit193> First thing I noticed is that you should use distro-info.
<bluesabre> probably
<Unit193> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/dokuwiki/1.1.0 ? :3
<Unit193> bluesabre: Thanks for the link.
<bluesabre> Unit193: that looks handy
<Unit193> Hoped it would. :)
<bluesabre> maybe I'll fix it up the next time I'm bored or tired of not being fully automated :D
<ochosi> bbl (if you need anything bionic from me lemme know)
<flocculant> ochosi: ftr icon looks fine now
<flocculant> bluesabre: that gist looks useful - might play about with that - I tend to be wanting to see differences between current dev and 'some previous one'
<ochosi> flocculant: kewl, then maybe bluesabre can pull it into xubuntu-artwork
<amerigena> join #xubuntu
<flocculant> ochosi: np
<ochosi> just fixed the gtk2 regression in the latest greybird \o/
<bluesabre> ochosi: hooray!
<ochosi> maybe i'll also look into fixing checkboxes and radios in menus
<ochosi> even though those don't look bad really
<ochosi> actually not that easy to find good gtk2 apps for testing these days :p
<bluesabre> not an awful problem to have
<ochosi> yeah
<ochosi> quite happy with the new checkboxes and radios in gtk2
<ochosi> didn't think i'd touch that part of the theme ever again
<bluesabre> don't suppose you could share a screenshot so I don't have to find a gtk2 app?
<ochosi> heh
<ochosi> you wanna see the regression or the updated checkboxes?
<ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/7hincQn.png
<bluesabre> I guess the update so I know what I'm uploading in a few hours :)
<ochosi> ah
<ochosi> right
<ochosi> this is the regression: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/5833446/37819411-ab8c2490-2e7d-11e8-9e10-b87cf8654676.png
<ochosi> you see it in the gtk2 version of whisker here
<bluesabre> ouch
<ochosi> before: http://i.imgur.com/yu46jUu.png
<ochosi> after: http://i.imgur.com/W9BymwS.png
<ochosi> tbh i new about this bug, but didn't have time to fix it before UIF
<ochosi> so i decided to release 3.22.7 anyway and push this as bugfix
<ochosi> having the new checkboxes in was simply more important
<bluesabre> certainly
<bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
<ochosi> one more thing i could imagine doing for 18.04 is hidpi support for window decorations
<ochosi> both gtk3 and xfwm4
<ochosi> ah right, sure
<ochosi> hf
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r549 Fix Gtk2 radiobuttons (Issue #219)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-24
<flocculant> bluesabre: so now we've got people complaining that numlockx is on (laptops) in the original report there was some laptop-detect=0 comment - there's some comment about laptop-detect in this https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=734701
<ubottu> Debian bug 734701 in numlockx "numlockx: Please detect if external keyboard connected for the auto mode" [Wishlist,Fixed]
<flocculant> anyway - got the user on the forum to report it to x-d-s
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: did you know you're affected by bug 1754836
<ubottu> bug 1754836 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on org.bluez:/org/bluez: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1754836
<flexiondotorg> flocculant: Looking now...
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: I didn't do an actual usb install of Mate, but I expect it'd be the same there as for us
<flexiondotorg> I'll have to test. But I've not knowingly encountered this issue.
<flexiondotorg> We did have boot delays due to seeding snaps, but those issues are resolved.
<flocculant> flexiondotorg: I just tried it in qemu - to check .xsession-errors and there it is 3 25s timeouts
<ochosi> bluesabre: please pull in the latest elementary-xfce commit to xubuntu-artwork too, need that for the CSD icons to be fixed
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [bionic] r337 Update elementary-xfce window manager icons from d823986... (by Sean Davis)
<tomreyn> hi! is https://xubuntu.org/news/testing-for-xubuntu/ still as much of a problem?
<tomreyn> (i'd be happy to spend some time testing if needed.)
<flocculant> tomreyn: it's been a problem since April 2014 ;)
<flocculant> for some reason community involvement just after 14.04 released went belly up 
<flocculant> s/with testing
<flocculant> tomreyn: what we (Dev and QA) are mostly after is testing of Xubuntu Dev during the 6 month cycle prior to release
<flocculant> though of course testing iso's at milestones has it's role too
<bluesabre> Unit193: what's the standard versioning scheme for packages with a git snapshot?
<bluesabre> Looking to do a greybird 3.22.7 + 031f985
<bluesabre> I'd just do it as a patch, but pngs
<flocculant> hi bluesabre 
<bluesabre> hi flocculant 
<bluesabre> how's it going?
<flocculant> pretty good thanks :)
<flocculant> got people complaining about numlockx :d
<bluesabre> Saw that
<flocculant> and I found the blueman thing in mate ;)
<bluesabre> Guess I'll need to tweak our script
<bluesabre> and that's good news
<bluesabre> (means it will probably get looked at)
<flocculant> yea - wasn't sure about that laptop-detect thing in the original numlock report - but I guess
<bluesabre> flocculant: you have a desktop?
<flocculant> and yea re the timeout jibel is looking at some 'timeout/long boot things'
<flocculant> I do have desktop
<bluesabre> what does...
<bluesabre> laptop-detect
<bluesabre> echo $?
<bluesabre> get you?
<bluesabre> I have a laptop and it returns 0
<bluesabre> looking at the manpage, that seems right
<tomreyn> thanks for your feedback, flocculant. maybe it would be a good idea to have a tiny utility integrated into xubuntu by default which allows users to opt-in to receiving your calls for testing / reminders
<bluesabre> so flocculant, you should get 1 from that echo
<flocculant> bluesabre: how do I run that ?
<flocculant> laptop-detect gives nothing
<bluesabre> flocculant: right, it sets a return code, that "echo $?" gives you that return code
<flocculant> laptop-detect echo $ gives me unknown option 
<tomreyn> flocculant: i suspect that a relevant fraction of users are usually happy to help testing but may need (and expect to be provided with) a reminder when to do so. the same probably goes for donations, if needed.
<bluesabre> two lines :)
<bluesabre> here
<bluesabre> laptop-detect; echo $?;
<flocculant> 1 
<flocculant> :D
<flocculant> tomreyn: I agree - but I'd not want to have some thing installed which let us ping people ...
<tomreyn> flocculant: just those who opted in to it. why not?
<bluesabre> flocculant: cool, so since that works like I'd expect, I'll add that to our script
<flocculant> I'd say that given we use mailing lists/social media and launchpad we've pretty much covered people who want to be part of the community
<flocculant> tomreyn: ^^
<flocculant> bluesabre: ack
<flocculant> bluesabre: I'll get rid of the lightdm script I added locally ages ago so I'm using 'ours' then wait to see update - then make sure it works
<flocculant> I'll also ping the user in the forum about it too
<flocculant> tomreyn: we can lead people to water ... ;) seemingly it takes whinges to make people take notice - sadly
<tomreyn> flocculant: personally, i'd not want to "be part of the community", i'd be happy to provide occasional (say twice a year) test feedback on specific tasks. that's because i like using xubuntu, and want to support it going forward, but also my spare time is too valuable to make me want to engage with the project in a general sense (i.e. joining a community)
<flocculant> tomreyn: you read the blog post - responded - part of the community ;)
<tomreyn> (and i suspect i'm not alone in this take on things)
<tomreyn> well, that was merely accidential, i guess.
<tomreyn> i was wondering which new features will be available in 18.04. but obviously it's too late now to make any impact.
<tomreyn> i do understand that maintaining multiple communication channels in parallell is a taxing task for a volunteer run project (i assume that's what xubuntu is).
<flocculant> tomreyn: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/18.04/release-notes
<flocculant> and yea - definitely a volunteer project :)
<ochosi> bluesabre: thanks, i can do stable releases before final freeze
<knome> privacy is a sensitive are
<knome> area too.
<flocculant> well yea
<flocculant> ninetls: odd issue with sn plugin and dropbox icon xfce 14297
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 14297 in General "Dropbox icon fails to show menu on left click" [Normal,New] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14297
<ali1234> hmm that reminds me of something
<ali1234> indicator spec defines three events: menu, primary, secondary
<ali1234> there is no consistency of what those events mean though
<ali1234> and some desktops don't send all of them
<slickymaster> knome, checked your slideshow branch
<slickymaster> I like it, and my position is to go ahead with it
<ninetls> flocculant: yes, I noticed that too when investigated dropbox this week
<ninetls> it provides 2 menus: middle click activates its internal menu, left click activates native menu. they even look different.
<ochosi> gah, missed willem by a few secs
<Unit193> bluesabre: Usually what you see in configure.ac, and either bump up for the git snapshot (if it has the current version there), or drop back (if it has the next version, as Xfce usually does.)  So in your case 3.22.7+git20180324.031f985-0ubuntu1
<Unit193> With numlockx, what if it's a laptop but docked? :3
<Unit193> (And for dropbox, if you left click, click away, then right click it works. :P)
<flocculant> Unit193: so what we're saying is that eventually any click you like :p
<flocculant> ninetls: ack - thanks
#xubuntu-devel 2018-03-25
<ochosi> willem: no worries about that xfpm bugreport - it's really fine if you report stuff like that
<ochosi> bluesabre: would you agree that adding support for sharp hidpi CSD in greybird can be considered bugfix? (currently there is hidpi support, but the icons are fuzzy)
<ochosi> if so, i would add that and possibly an xfwm4 hidpi theme and release 3.22.8 before final freeze
<bluesabre> ochosi: I think that's reasonable. It's an appearance bug if it's fuzzy, and it won't affect documentation or anything.
<ochosi> yup
<ochosi> i'm almost there already
<ochosi> just the close icon missing
<ondondil> Hey guys, I'm just a casual user and I don't know where to report this so I decided to write here. I noticed that gtk theme is not being applied to qt programs in bionic (this is how it looks https://i.imgur.com/h52oGuz.png ). I was able to fix this by installing qt5-style-plugins package. This is how it looks after installing this package https://i.imgur.com/oS8OoMV.png
<ondondil> I just thought that I could suggest including qt5-style-plugins with default ISO.
<bluesabre> I wonder what the install weight of that is these days, it might not be bad to include for an LTS release
<ondondil> On a fresh ISO it wants to pull additional 17 dependencies. All together it's 9 933 kB to download and takes 42,7 MB of space after installation
<knome> bluesabre, didn't we fix this for qt4 with a configuration file or sth?
<ochosi> bluesabre: tbh i'd be largely in favor of including that. not having gtk+ styles there really sucks big time...
<ochosi> knome: i think we did, not sure it's possible too for qt5, one would have to investigate
<krytarik> bluesabre, Unit193: Regarding the numlockx dilemma, my suggestion would be this: http://paste.openstack.org/show/Wlcs17aSguv7UaEJN1NY/
<ochosi> does anyone (of the graphically sensitive) here have a hidpi screen
<ochosi> ?
<knome> ochosi, i vaguely remember something like "this can't be done for qt5 in the same way because you will also need package X (potentially the one in question) in order for the change to apply" and "package X isn't installed when any qt application is installed since it's made optional"
<knome> but yes, i'm +1 for including it as we do not really have an issue with the ISO size
<knome> no hidpi for me
<ochosi> the CSD hidpi support i pushed to greybird should be fine
<ochosi> but it would still be nice to get it looked at
<ochosi> and the xfwm4 hidpi theme is still in the works
<ochosi> that's actually a lot of work and will take a while longer
<ochosi> so many more icons to scale
<ochosi> and the not-antialiased corners of xfwm4 themes are also hard to get right
<knome> mhm
<knome> and off for the day...
<knome> nighty
<bluesabre> knome: the package is required now to provide support for it
<bluesabre> krytarik: somehow completely missed that file existed
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r550 Add proper support for HiDPI CSD (Issue #100)... (by Simon SteinbeiÃ)
<Unit193> Urgh, no.  Let's not ship Qt5 just in case someone installs a Qt5 application...And yeah, we do set it so that all one must do is install that package by setting an env var.
<bluesabre> Yeah, it's a pain that there's not a nice way to do it
<Unit193> Documentation if it's not already there.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-18
<knome> bluesabre, so apparently we can't delete branches when other branches are stacked on them -- even if they weren't our
<knome> (which kind of makes sense, but also makes it kind of impossible to get rid of old branches..)
<bluesabre> knome, well, it was a good tidying effort :)
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> Hello, I am now back.
<Unit193> bluesabre: You grabbing that commit?
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-19
<bluesabre> knome, is there also an updated plymouth wallpaper?
<knome> bluesabre, we need to get together with ochosi to get that done
<knome> basically, we want to have a release-agnostic plymouth wall so we do not have to update it every time
<knome> that way we can also ensure the color palette in the plymouth assets works with it
<bluesabre> Ah, gotcha... so maybe just some nice dark boot background
<knome> yep
<bluesabre> black as a main back works well for the transition between grub / uife boot
<knome> so you're suggesting just a black wall?
<knome> nothing else?
<knome> ochosi?
<knome> i need lunch
<bluesabre> yeah, black wall, xubuntu logo, spinner... should be fine and pretty standard :)
<Unit193> Booooring though!
<knome> probably, but as ochosi argued, not many people even see plymouth in our ssd days
<astraljava> Boot times with strange display hardware (some smart TVs come to mind) also act strangely. Apparently some take so long to begin showing display data that from the first post of the graphics card, the system is already in lightdm-greeter when the display turns on. :D 
<knome> :)
<sorinello> Hello. Anyone knows how well Xubuntu supports BTRFS ? I am aware that this is a Kernel question, not an OS one, but maybe someone knows. I found some articles f rom 2015-2016 NOT recommending BTRFS yet
<brainwash> sorinello: #ubuntu-kernel
<ochosi> bluesabre, knome: maybe boring but i would tend to agree. black wall, ideally a fade-in of the xubuntu logo, then the spinner, then optional fade-out
<ochosi> (i don't remember the plymouth stuff well enough to know if fades were easy or tedious)
<Spass> so something like in elementary OS? I like it to be honest, I remember that in older Xubuntu releases it looked that way (black background, white logo), it's simple and elegant
<Spass> black background, white text (xubuntu) and a small blue icon next to it would be perfect imho
<Unit193> Heh, the last one(s) to work well were usplash, plymouth still isn't as good. :P
<Spass> I hate that NVIDIA driver still breaks the Plymouth resolution
<Spass> but the fix is simple fortunately
<Unit193> All I know is that whatever we do, we have to do it quick as it is already past deadline.
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 19.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-20
<bluesabre> ochosi, no idea how to do the fades in plymouth, but I can make the background black for now
<knome> bluesabre, thanks, in that case i'm fine with the rest of the upload :)
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: New release-agnostic wallpaper for Plymouth, release xubuntu-artwork 19.04 @ http://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-artwork/commit/?id=57c2f0828b941676043d802d1c7ab3d24996cf21 (by Sean Davis)
<ochosi> bluesabre: ok, we can take a look at that for the next release
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-21
<Unit193> xfdesktop4 4.13.3-1 uploaded to experimental by Yves-Alexis Perez (corsac)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Isn't there a patch you wanted to add to xfdesktop4?
<Unit193> xfce4-settings is behind a point release, is this intended?
<Unit193> (As is xfconf, but that one isn't in Debian at least.)
<Unit193> Also I'm carrying a local xfce4-terminal for disco to improve URL detection, this makes things nicer for me but am I supposed to actually do something with it?  (This would break sync.)
<bluesabre> Unit193, not been around my computer, but... yes, there's a patch I need to upload for xfdesktop4, xfce4-settings would be good to catch up, and if we can improve the terminal, neat :)
<Unit193> I dunno, I kind of just did it because it was a quirk I kept hitting.  Kind of forgot I don't need to wait for a release.
<ochosi> settings would be good for the display profile feature
<Unit193> Ah right, featurefull.  I guess that's why we skipped..
<ochosi> Unit193:  :/
<Spass> hi, I think we should open our official support channel to Matrix, seems like it's really easy to bridge existing IRC channel without too much hustle
<Spass> I'm talking about #xubuntu only, without -devel of course
<ochosi> and matrix is what exactly..?
<ochosi> (i think there are also bridges for e.g. slack)
<knome> some other new flashy think
<knome> official slack bridges are shut down.
<knome> there are irc daemons for slack now though.
<knome> but that's not something for an official solution from the groups side, more likely needs to be set up per-user
<knome> but for the matrix thing, i'm not really sure we want another outlet we might need to maintain (even if it's easy to bridge)
<Spass> for example, this is how #xubuntu-pl looks on Riot (Matrix client) after bridging - https://ibb.co/mFDhS3Y
<Spass> absolutely nothing changes from the IRC standpoint
<Spass> but the channel is visible for Matrix users who can join and talk
<ondondil> to be fair, matrix-freenode bridge already exists. I'm writing this from matrix client
<Spass> so, the thing to consider is making it visible in the room catalog (and maybe setting an avatar...)
<Spass> anyway, just a small suggestion :)
<ondondil> here's more info on how matrix-irc bridges work from user's standpoint if anyone's interested
<ondondil> https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/wiki/Permissioning-in-Portal-vs-Plumbed-rooms#portal-rooms
<knome> Spass, are you willing/interested in maintaining such things?
<knome> because there will always be some maintaining efforet required, and it's unlikely we will find anybody else to take that work right now
<Spass> I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I think that only OP can make #xubuntu visible in Matrix, but of course I can help with that and maintain it, at least I can try
<ondondil> Making an IRC channel visible in Matrix room catalog is just a matter of flipping a switch in room settings but only OP can do that. In case of doubt, Freenode is one of the networks where Op's Sync'ing is enabled
<Spass> from my understanding it shouldn't require much maintenance
<Spass> so the question is - does any OP from #xubuntu has a Matrix account and is willing to flip the switch, of course if the team wants that at all
<Spass> maybe the team could discuss that on the next meeting?
<Spass> Matrix is getting some traction now, I think the whole KDE team is moving to Matrix
<knome> the xubuntu team is unlikely to move to matrix as many of the team are long-time irc users
<knome> but that doesn't mean we can't support matrix for the support channels - if we think it might be useful
<Spass> I completely understand, moving to Matrix is not a good direction for now, but making #xubuntu visible in Matrix catalog doesn't change anything on IRC, it just opens the channel for new users (which may be good or wrong, like every change)
<Spass> *or bad
<Spass> but I wanted to share that suggestion with the team after I saw how good it worked with #xubuntu-pl :)
<knome> yes, sure
<knome> i'm not saying it can't be a good idea. i just don't use matrix myself so i don't really know how it might benefit us.
<knome> ultimately i think that having many and again many different options to get support (even if it pointed to the same resource) can be frustrating and overwhelming.
<Spass> yes, I see your point
<knome> that aside, i'm sure we can get one of the ops helping with the matrix integration should we decide to do that
<knome> (or grant a new person *ahem* said op privileges)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-22
-SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Drop masakari binary packages from misc-servers. @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=661d380f5acd3b3c638d0e1ee51d6846585e0d37 (by Corey Bryant)
<Unit193> Hrm, http://paste.openstack.org/show/GYvrwxANUgkcbcgLDfug is not great wording.
<bluesabre> suppose that would be easier if I did a release
<Unit193> Nah, it's good how it is. :3
<Unit193> (I have to push something minimal to Debian.)
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-23
<Unit193> More often than is reasonable, when I run system updates xfce4-panel restarts, which is weird.
<Unit193> 'free(): invalid pointer' not sure where that's from, but sounds a bit disconcerting.
<Unit193> (Right below that is (xfce4-panel:9559): xfce4-panel-CRITICAL **: 20:11:41.951: Name org.xfce.Panel lost on the message dbus, exiting.)
<ochosi> Unit193: if you can add a little more info i can take a look
<ochosi> i've never had it restart on me
<flocculant> Unit193: i've had that a couple of times - recently - hadn't been happening before, lost whisker menu and my customisation of it too - twice
<Unit193> ochosi: Yeah, not really sure what else to say though.
<Unit193> flocculant: Luckily nothing was actually lost for me.
<ochosi> Unit193: maybe sharing the list of plugins can help?
<ochosi> or are you only using standard/internal plugins?
<Unit193> libxfcetimer, libsystray, libstatusnotifier, libindicator-plugin, libcpugraph, libsystemload, libweather, libeyes
<Unit193> That's everything that is on the wrappers, at least
<ochosi> timer, cpugraph, systemload and eyes i don't use
<ochosi> i can start by adding one after another to my panel
<Unit193> If that were the case and the bad free was in there, shouldn't it just crash the plugin?
<ochosi> i would guess so (for external plugins)
<Unit193> Hrm, http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/Xfce-Announce-f39791.html is lagging.
<Unit193> -screensaver looks safe enough to grab, maybe.
<bluesabre> Yeah, should be safe
<bluesabre> Been dogfooding it at home and work
<Unit193> diff -Nur xfce4-screensaver-0.1.3/ xfce4-screensaver-0.1.4/ --exclude debian | wc -l  â 11075  hrm.
<bluesabre> exclude po too?
<Unit193> That, changelog, ui files, etc bring it down to 2254
<Unit193>  22 files changed, 401 insertions(+), 248 deletions(-)
<bluesabre> Sounds more reasonable
<Unit193> Indeed, pushing (unless you wish to.)
<bluesabre> Go for iiiiiiiiit
<Unit193> Grabbing weather too, still leaving xfdesktop for you.
#xubuntu-devel 2019-03-24
<bluesabre> danke
<Unit193> Anything else I should do?
<bluesabre> Not that I'm aware of currently
<bluesabre> Thanks for the help!
<Unit193> Hey, you're doing all the work, I'm just doing some housekeeping.  Thanks, keep doing it.
<bluesabre> ð
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-16
<Unit193> Oh hey I need to look at that don't I?
<krytarik> Yeep!  I just voted on all of 'em, whether it'll stick is another question though. >_>
<Unit193> Wanna vote for meeeeeâ½
<Unit193> GridCube: Don't forget to vote!
<GridCube> ?
<GridCube> do i qualify?
<Unit193> (I don't think so anymore, though.)
<GridCube> :P
<Unit193> https://contest.xubuntu.org/wallpaper_contest/xubuntu-20-04-community-wallpaper-contest/?action=view but you can view!
<GridCube> almost all are good
<Unit193> bluesabre: Tuesday or Thursday work for you?
<Unit193> Keeping in mind one is a bit of a holiday.
<bluesabre> Unit193: that's a good point. Thursday will work for me.
<Unit193> \o/
<jphilips> anyone have a contact for someone in the ubuntu studio and lubuntu teams
<Eickmeyer[m]> jphilips: I'm the Ubuntu Studio lead. What's up?
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- Reminder: Next meeting chair is Unit193
<jphilips> Unit193, bluesabre: has a time on thursday been decided?
<Unit193> jphilips: I'm thinking 4 or 8 local time.
<jphilips> what time UTC
<jphilips> i'm UTC+4
<Unit193> I'm -0400, aka `TZ=America/New_York date`
<jphilips> same as toronto, so UTC-4, so if its 4pm local time, thats 12am my time
<Unit193> (Aka, 15 seconds after you just pinged me.)
<jphilips> yep that time :D
<jphilips> though it was 13 seconds according to my irc client
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-17
<knome> krytarik, i wonder why that is; literally nothing in the code has changed.
<knome> bluesabre, should we close submissions?
<knome> looking at the voting thingy
<Unit193> I should vote.
<knome> don't, yet
<knome> there is a slight chance i need to reset votes
<knome> oh yay
<knome> now you can downvote
<knome> but votes are not visually shown before refresh
<knome> aaand now that should happen as well
<knome> sent a note that all voting needs to be done again
<knome> in case somebody has gone and voted
<knome> bluesabre, in the contest voting results, i added a submission counter for each author, so we can see if people have submitted more than allowed
<knome> i'm not saying we have to be literal and disqualify everybody who submitted more than 5, but there is one author who has submitted 14 entries and one author who submitted 12 entries
<jphilips> knome: hi. just another ping that i'm willing to get the changes in the google docs onto the website.
<knome> jphilips, yes, i am aware and will get to them once i have the time for it
<jphilips> i'm saying that if i can get credentials to the site, i can make the changes, so you dont have to
<jphilips> or did i misunderstand your last message
<knome> as i'm not very active, i'll leave that decision to others :)
<jphilips> Unit193, bluesabre, ochosi: ^^^
<bluesabre> knome, I think I closed them?
<Unit193> bluesabre: In case you missed, ~4pm good?
<bluesabre> Unit193: 5pm would work better, but I think I might be able to swing 4
<Unit193> Let's do 5.
<knome> bluesabre, oh right you did. just didn't remove the link to submit ;)
<knome> jphilips, pleia2 is the admin for the website team, you should primarily ask her :)
<jphilips> knome: strange as it mentions you being the website lead - https://wiki.xubuntu.org/contact
<jphilips> :D
<jphilips> gonna start a poll tomorrow and have two poll questions to choose from. which do you guys think is better?
<jphilips> 1. When Xubuntu 20.04 releases next month, what do you plan to do?
<jphilips> 2. How excited are you for the release of Xubuntu 20.04?
<knome> jphilips, that's outdated.
<knome> contact pgae updated
<pleia2> I forgot I was the website lead
<pleia2> knome probably gave it to me while I was delirious from baby-induced sleep deprivation
<jphilips> pleia2: :D
<pleia2> jphilips: what's the document you're editing for proposed website changes?
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-18
<Unit193> There we go.
<Unit193> I'm letting my xubuntu-doc membership expire, I think it won't affect things.
<jphilips> pleia2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qenHqnop4DWne2DsX5nPgaN7xdJLzL6etb0gfBGL6fk/edit#
<jphilips> it has changes for the artwork and QA contribution pages made by me, ochosi and knome
<jphilips> once those changes get in, i'll work on the other contribution pages, with input from the lead of each of the pages
<jphilips> the other thing in the document is additional press links for the 'in the press' pages which i gathered
<jphilips> i'm a member of the wiki team, but still cant edit the meeting page :(
<jphilips> Unit193: can you add the following items to the agenda
<jphilips> pre-installed apps - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-March/011877.html
<jphilips> UI and UX tweaks - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-March/011876.html
<jphilips> broken Super + D shortcut - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1866537
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1866537 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Show desktop shortcut doesnt work" [Undecided,New]
<Unit193> jphilips: Can't add anything right now, but as I noted before we're in FeatureFreeze, so any seed changes would have to have a FFe which needs a solid justification...sooo..
<jphilips> can you clarify what seed changes mean
<Unit193> Seed = packages we're shipping on the ISO/desktop.
<Unit193> https://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/xubuntu
<jphilips> so the pre-installed apps proposal. okay. i've given my justification in the mailing list. guess you guys will decide how solid it is
<Unit193> Nope, FFes aren't approved by the Xubuntu team.
<Unit193> !ffe
<ubottu> Feature Freeze Exception. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess for the freeze exception process.
<jphilips> so i presume its the 'FeatureFreeze for new packages' section
<Unit193> "Introducing new packages into the archive"?  No, that's different.
<Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2020-March/004924.html recently talked about it.
<bluesabre> Yeah, at this point (Feature Freeze) in an LTS cycle, we shouldn't be adding any new applications.
<bluesabre> UI/UX tweaks are still acceptable.
<bluesabre> And bug fixes are fair game until release day and beyond.
<bluesabre> I am not opposed to revisiting the default apps at the beginning of the 20.10 cycle
<jphilips> okey dokey.
<jphilips> how fixed are we with using xfce apps over other apps?
<brainwash> jphilips: you did not mention in your report if the settings GUI shows Super + D as being assigned to the correct action
<jphilips> brainwash: wouldnt have to as thats the default
<jphilips> its not like i assigned the shortcut, its the default set in 19.10
<Unit193> I'd imagine we're pretty set on using Xfce. :P
<brainwash> it certainly is, but it helps to know if the GUI agrees with that
<bluesabre> jphilips: Here's our info on Package Selection. https://docs.xubuntu.org/contributor/C/xsd.html#xsd-seeds-composition-package-selection
<jphilips> but yes it does show in the GUI that its the shortcut
<brainwash> okay
<brainwash> my first guess would have been that it is simply missing there
<bluesabre> In general, we're not opposed to using non-Xfce apps, there just historically hasn't been any real reason to.
<brainwash> due to whatever reason
<jphilips> Unit193: well i was going to suggest that we use a different image viewer than ristretto
<Unit193> That's actually one of the decently maintained components.
<brainwash> jphilips: the old keybind still works?
<jphilips> definitely could be, but i guess i've been spoiled with viewers that have some basic editing features like cropping, saving as a different format, etc.
<jphilips> brainwash: no you can only assign the function to a single shortcut in window manager
<brainwash> but the action can appear twice in the XML file
<jphilips> not sure why only the combination with 'D' is acting up like that
<jphilips> if you are in thunar and press Super + D, it acts as if you are just pressing D
<jphilips> so it shows the search for 'D' in the bottom right
<brainwash> reminds me of bug 1292290
<ubottu> bug 1292290 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu Trusty) "[SRU] Window manager keybindings don't work after reboot" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1292290
<brainwash> xfconf-query -c xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts -lv | grep show_desktop_key
<jphilips> brainwash: are you asking me to execute that?
<brainwash> if you want to debug the problem, yes
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/EcniYWn.png
<jphilips> old shortcut still works
<brainwash> see
<brainwash> action appears twice
<jphilips> so bluesabre patch wasnt correct then - https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/commit/?id=4f8124a0669462a5ff86017043ab4cc068ae4b1e
<brainwash> maybe this is needed https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/543
<brainwash> setting the Xfce default keybind to type="empty"
<brainwash> in the Xubuntu XML file
<jphilips> i set the old shortcut to a different operation but still that didnt fix it
<jphilips> but it did ask me if i wanted to move it off of show desktop
<jphilips> not sure how the old shortcut is being set, when its not found in the shortcuts file - https://git.launchpad.net/xubuntu-default-settings/tree/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml
<brainwash> jphilips: merged from the upstream XML file
<brainwash> or keybind setup
<brainwash> no idea how it works in detail
<jphilips> thankfully the old shortcut does work, atleast for those who have been using it before
<brainwash> in the xfconf-query output you can see "custom" and "default"
<brainwash> and I assume that "default" is a mix of Xubuntu's keybinds + Xfce's ones
<brainwash> Xfce has Ctrl+Alt+D, Xubuntu does not anymore
<brainwash> therefore it gets merged
<brainwash> set Ctrl+Alt+D in Xubuntu to type="empty" -> no merge happens anymore
<jphilips> has the team considered doing voice/video meetings with someone taking minutes
<pleia2> jphilips: yes, we all hate it ;) even during the Virtual Ubuntu Developer Summits we tended to just have IRC-based sessions instead of video
<jphilips> even just audio?
<pleia2> even just audio
<pleia2> and it's hard to take comprehensive notes, the audio isn't as accessible for searching/reviewing in the future
<jphilips> at libreoffice we did voice/video meetings and noted minutes and all were able to modify the minutes to add additional info that may have been missed or incorrectly noted
<pleia2> I'm glad it worked for that team :)
<pleia2> I also wouldn't be able to attend, I can keep an eye on a text-based meeting during work (which is when the meetings happen), but I couldn't divert enough attention to audio/video without taking time off from work (not really possible right now)
<jphilips> as the minutes were taking place in etherpad, you could look at the pad and comment there if you are unable to attend
<jphilips> here's an example - https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings/2020-03-12
<jphilips> here is the etherpad - https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design
<pleia2> I have definitely done it for other teams, I'm explaining that it doesn't work for us
<jphilips> okey dokey
<pleia2> jphilips: I've added you to the website team so you can make the edits agreed to in the document
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed python-is-python3 @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=8b39ba0911da0d5189f49abf930c9e6618b7c467 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
<jphilips> okey dokey
<pleia2> thanks for your work on this :)
<jphilips> glad to help and to ease burden on the team with my suggested changes :D
<knome> for what it's worth, using pad for suggesting stuff and/or collaborative editing would be better than google docs
-BottyMcBotFace:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 20.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-19
<bluesabre> Shew, took half an hour, but finished wallpaper voting
<jphilips> \o/
<bluesabre> knome: that's true, but I think there's  a barrier to getting in the ubuntu etherpad group these days iirc
<jphilips> tried to switch to etherpad when i volunteered at libreoffice, but it was to complicated and getting in the way of work
<jphilips> they began using libreoffice online
<jphilips> etherpad was definitely fine for meeting minutes, but not for document formatting
<jphilips> knome: in the press has been updated :D
<jphilips> https://xubuntu.org/press/
<dbrgn> hi, is the wallpaper contest closed? the submit button is still there, but when i click it I don't see a submit form...
<dbrgn> wanted to submit a few photos tonight.
<jphilips> dbrgn: yes it was closed on the 13th
<dbrgn> jphilips: ok, would be great if that date could be put up on the website (and the submit button removed).
<dbrgn> there are some nice contenders in the list of submissions already :) (as an idea, maybe photos that don't match the requested format, like photos in portrait orientation, could be filtered out directly in the submit form.)
<jphilips> yep it would have been nice to clearly indicate that on the website.
<jphilips> knome: any possibility of adding that
<jphilips> meeting starting in another 7 minutes. hope all are ready
<Unit193> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar 19 21:00:01 2020 UTC.  The chair is Unit193. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<Unit193> !team | Everyone here?
<ubottu> Everyone here?: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit193
<bluesabre> o/
<jphilips> \o
<bluesabre> Working from home makes the commute significantly faster
<Unit193> Hah, that it does.  Also the attire?
<jphilips> heard on a podcast the people should have a pajamas for sleeping and pajamas for work
<jphilips> that* people
<bluesabre> Business casual for zoom calls, Sean casual otherwise
<Unit193> We can't vote on anything if more don't show up.
<pleia2> o/
<Unit193> \o/
<Unit193> #topic Open action items
<Unit193> I don't see any open action items from the last meeting, just a couple links.
<Unit193> #topic Updates and Announcements
<Unit193> #info Most of the Xfce 4.14 updates are ready and in focal
<Unit193> #info Wallpaper contest is now closed and we're all supposed to vote!
<Unit193> bluesabre?
<bluesabre> #info Feature Freeze is past us.
<bluesabre> #info User Interface Freeze is today.
<bluesabre> #info jphilips has breathed new life into our social media
<bluesabre> That might be all that I'm currently aware of.
<bluesabre> Kinda coming off of a long been-too-busy-at-work-to-contribute hiatus
<Unit193> #topic Discussion items
<Unit193> #subtopic UI and UX tweaks
<Unit193> jphilips: You have the floor.
<jphilips> i've submitted user interface and user experience tweaks suggestions that i believe will improve the experience for users
<jphilips> they range from improvements to the desktop, panel, whisker menu, thunar, and keyboard shortcuts
<jphilips> should we go one by one through them?
<jphilips> or should members vote/comment in the google doc?
<jphilips> the link is here - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hzvQURi8l--GrfqsxP9c0tWNUzrkbZjZTiVxGUegALg/edit#
<bluesabre> Good question.
<Unit193> I'm not too sure about removing the 'removable devices' from the desktop, those are also any flash drives on might plug in, etc.
<jphilips> a number of people have complained about the rpool and the likes also showing up on the desktop
<bluesabre> Yeah, but that's more of an issue with Xfce/GVFS support of zfs
<jphilips> users have easy access to all of these items in thunar and if they don't like the default they can enable the option
<jphilips> also mentioned in my reasoning is that there is no means to only show flash drives and not internal partitions and it not showing network shares, which means the functionality isnt functioning as it should
<jphilips> having a clean desktop is good UX, which users can then fill up with what they wish to see on their desktop
<Unit193> bluesabre: Anything else popping out at you?
<pleia2> I haven't used the defaults in a long time, what exactly happens now when you plug in a usb stick by default? aside from showing up on the desktop
<bluesabre> Unit193: I've been adding a variety of comments to the Google doc itself
<jphilips> pleia2: the default behaviour is that thunar opens up when you plugin a usb
<jphilips> unless you disable it in 'removable drives and media'
<pleia2> gotcha, that seems sufficient
<bluesabre> I'm not sure about the 24px panel icons
<bluesabre> They feel obnoxiously large :D
<pleia2> hehe
<jphilips> well dont open the whisker menu :D
<bluesabre> I mean, they're larger than the window controls that they are always hovering on top of
<jphilips> could you clarify with a screenshot
<bluesabre> https://i.imgur.com/wjSFbVE.png
<Unit193> Desktop changes seem fine enough, though as noted above.  In the panel section changing the sorting order seems fine as that's also what I happen to use, adding the new favorites to whisker also seems fine.  Not fond of some of the other changes though.
<jphilips> i have the panel at the bottom, so never see that :D
<Unit193> Switching by hovering makes sense.
<bluesabre> ftr, 24px is also the same size as large toolbar which is a primary application element, https://valadoc.org/gtk+-3.0/Gtk.IconSize.LARGE_TOOLBAR.html
<bluesabre> Xubuntu has the panel at the top ;)
<bluesabre> jphilips: what size is your laptop screen?
<jphilips> well if you think the window toolbar needs to be bigger as the panel is larger, we should speak with ochosi to update the theme.
<jphilips> 1366x768
<bluesabre> I mean, physical size?
<bluesabre> All your icon size suggestions seem very large to me (24in, 1080p desktop) and (17in 1080 laptop)
<jphilips> not sure, let me check
<bluesabre> That's my one real hangup, most of the other changes in that doc seem agreeable.
<Unit193> I note the keyboard shortcuts seem to mirror Windows, I don't think I object to the specifc changes but I do not want to become yet another windows clone.
<Unit193> C-A-D I'm not the most fond of, but eh.
<jphilips> screen is 14"
<jphilips> you can see the shortcut research here - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CPvYS7Vb00nImb5cru6pwcMHFov0vmdzJV9dTBUOuYg/edit#
<jphilips> most of them have already been upstreamed
<jphilips> C-A-D is the third shortcut we have for session lock, including Ctrl + Alt + L and Super + L
<bluesabre> Yeah, just 14 long years of Xubuntu C-A-D muscle memory there :D
<bluesabre> +Xfce
<Unit193> Heh, I didn't like it at first even, but got so very used to it.
<bluesabre> But yeah, I don't mind the shortcut changes
<Unit193> bluesabre: Simon really wanted symbolic links, yeah?
<bluesabre> symbolic icons?
<Unit193> Err, right.  That.
<bluesabre> Definitely. Makes the theme work with light/dark themes/panels with zero work required.
<jphilips> well this is your quote bluesabre: "Ctrl + Alt + Delete: I agree that this should probably be replaced with the logout dialog. After having used somebody else's non-Xfce computer recently, it was a shock when this shortcut launched a logout dialog instead of locking. If there's already a standard, it would be best to align."
<bluesabre> jphilips: yep, not fighting that one
<jphilips> :D
<jphilips> is it not possible to have symbolic icons that are larger than 16px
<bluesabre> So yeah, everything except icon size/symbolic changes and moving the Setting Manager is +1 from me
<pleia2> I'm inclined to agree
<jphilips> bluesabre: to clarify, you dont want to change the panel height from 24px
<bluesabre> Well, for panel size I've always been in favor of a 28px panel
<bluesabre> But that one the team has never agreed on ;)
<Unit193> We're somehow going to need to get input from the rest of the team.
<pleia2> I always change it anyway based on the size of my screen (which vary widely across my devices)
<jphilips> i put out the suggestion previously on the mailing list but only one person responded - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2019-July/011825.html
<bluesabre> We're a pretty inactive team in general.
<pleia2> yeah, sorry :)
<pleia2> (and the xubuntu team baby boom certainly hasn't helped matters)
<jphilips> i ran a poll and 57% of respondents wanted it to be 28 or higher - https://twitter.com/jphilipz/status/1149373399770312705
<bluesabre> I'd probably send a team vote to the ML grouping the proposals how you have them, with one additional grouping that contains the panel and icon sizes.
<Unit193> We also all seem to dislike email. :P
<bluesabre> Yeah
<pleia2> this won't land in 20.04 anyway, so we have a lot of time to decide
<bluesabre> Yeah, and there's probably going to be a team reorg for 20.10 (couple inactive members to remove, hopefully a few to add)
<bluesabre> council expires, etc
<bluesabre> But yeah, I can work with jphilips to draft the team votes
<Unit193> bluesabre: You want to send the email?
<Unit193> Heh.
<bluesabre> ;)
<Unit193> #action bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up email/vote to the list.
<meetingology> ACTION: bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up email/vote to the list.
<Unit193> jphilips: The other topic, Addition of new shortcut keys, seems like part of this discussion we just had?
<jphilips> yes i added all the keyboard shortcuts suggestions in the same doc for easy access to exactly what was to be changed
<jphilips> as things had changed since i first sent the email to the mailing list last year
<Unit193> And seems you already filed a bug report with "Resolve problem with Super + D shortcut key" too?
<jphilips> bug was filed but not sure how to move it forward as its broken since 19.10
<bluesabre> Interestingly, re-setting the Super+D shortcut in the Window Manager settings makes it work
<bluesabre> I'll dig into that.
<Unit193> OK.
<Unit193> #topic Any other business?
<Unit193> bluesabre: We do need to get council selection going now I guess.
<jphilips> trying to organize a flavors bug hunting session for the beta ISO release
<bluesabre> #info Be sure to add bugs we want fixed to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-f-bugs
<bluesabre> Unit193: Indeed... and that sounds like a lot of work :D
<Unit193> We've got everything except for newer xfce4-session.
<bluesabre> jphilips: thanks for that. Let me know if you need help tracking down flavor heads
<Unit193> bluesabre: Yes, and seemingly lack of people interested.
<bluesabre> >.>
<bluesabre> Gotta grow the team
<Unit193> Anything else?
<jphilips> bluesabre: i'm in the flavors channel and have touch basis with the kubuntu, lubuntu and budgie people
<Unit193> pleia2: Nothing from you?
<bluesabre> Unit193: nothing from me
<pleia2> nope
<bluesabre> jphilips: yeah, that's where we find them... popey and Wimpress are in there too, which helps
<Unit193> Well looks like slick is supposed to schedule the next meeting, buut..
<bluesabre> Yeahhhh
<bluesabre> I'll do it
<Unit193> #info bluesabre to schedule next meeting
<Unit193> #endmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar 19 21:59:45 2020 UTC.  
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-03-19-21.00.moin.txt
<pleia2> thanks Unit193 
<Unit193> bluesabre, pleia2: Thanks for popping up!
<bluesabre> thanks Unit193 pleia2 jphilips 
<jphilips> thanks bluesabre Unit193 pleia2 
<Unit193> jphilips too of course, but he had stuff on the agenda so had to. ;)
<jphilips> hope you all are staying safe
<pleia2> we're under shelter-in-place orders here, but that's a better discussion for -offtopic ;)
<bluesabre> Time for a break, been at work at home all day
<bluesabre> bbl
<jphilips> pleia2: are you familiar with setting up an irc to telegram bridge?
<pleia2> nope
<jphilips> wxl was saying that 'basically you set up a linux shell in the cloud' and pointed me to these links
<jphilips> https://picrofo.com/ulinux/
<jphilips> https://shells.red-pill.eu/index.php?method=out&cat=Free+Shells
<pleia2> those look like for free shell accounts?
<pleia2> then I assume you'd actually need to set up the bridge on them
<jphilips> when the bridge was setup for libreoffice, it was a script from github
<jphilips> something like this https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
<jphilips> and this https://github.com/stevesoltys/telegram-irc
<Unit193> Someone set up an Xubuntu telegram group a while ago, but seems it didn't last.
<wxl> we used (and are still using, shame on us) teleirc but matterbridge is what i'd recommend
<jphilips> having the bridge connect telegram to irc will ensure its longevity
<Unit193> I mean, if the last one couldn't last them perhaps one isn't needed.
<jphilips> also reducing the barrier to entry
<wxl> our contributors increase exponetially with the bridge
<jphilips> so did it on libreoffice
<bluesabre> hopefully they're patient visitors :) Too many interactions go:
<bluesabre> [6:09] name: Hey I need help
<bluesabre> [6:10] name: Hello?
<bluesabre> [6:11] name: Ugh, bye.
<bluesabre> name left
<Unit193> I see a *lot* of spam in the Kubuntu one.
<wxl> we get an occassional one, but not really
<jphilips> one benefit on telegram is that you can still contact the person on telegram after they left
<jphilips> on irc, if they close their web irc client, you'd likely never see them again
<jphilips> or hexchat
<bluesabre> if you're using telegram to communicate, yeah
<bluesabre> don't think the same applies for a irc-bridged-telegram client
<jphilips> yep
<jphilips> those on telegram will be able grow the telegram group
<bluesabre> I think knome experimented with a slack bridge once, long ago
<bluesabre> oh, I see what you're saying
<bluesabre> So a telegram bridge is a channel on telegram, that sees all the same content as the irc users (and vice versa?)
<jphilips> and those on telegram and irc wont feel like separate islands just because they are using different platforms
<bluesabre> ok, that makes sense
<jphilips> telegram users will only be able to see telegram users and irc users will be able to see irc users, but everyone will be see any messages sent on either platforms
<bluesabre> sounds good to me
<jphilips> thats how i was communicating with the team in kubuntu and lubuntu
<jphilips> i was in irc and they were in telegram
<jphilips> atleast some of them
<jphilips> is any on the xubuntu team on telegram?
<Unit193> That's sounding like a nope, I know I don't go trolling groups on telegram at least.
<jphilips> if anyone is, they are welcome to join - https://t.me/UbuntuTesters
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-20
<pleia2> so many wallpapers
<Unit193> I know! :3
<pleia2> there, all voted \o/
<Unit193> pleia2: Thanks!  I haven't yet.  So. Many. Wallpapers.
<Unit193> bluesabre: Were you going to cut a new -screensaver?  Someone in -dev seemed to think there were worthwhile changes.
<Unit193> Also, are you thinking of doing https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15831?
<ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 15831 in General "[PATCH] Use GIRepository of libxfce4util and xfconf" [Normal,New]
<bluesabre> Unit193: that's the plan. Need to fix some remaining issues, but should have a fix out this weekend.
<Unit193> As per #xfce, seems it has an issue with docking in general?  And, if you go with Git, xfconf/libxfce4ui/etc will need to build the support.
<bluesabre> Yeah, that's why I haven't done GIR yet, because it seems like its poorly supported among Xfce devs (or Corsac seemingly)
<bluesabre> and/or*
<Unit193> Debian doesn't have it because nothing uses it.
<Unit193> Perhaps ask in #xfce-dev?  He might be open to it.
<bluesabre> I don't use it because Debian doesn't have it :D
<bluesabre> I'll think about it
<bluesabre> It's less hacky that way
<Unit193> Haha!
<Unit193> Chicken, egg.
<jphilips> any of our team willing to post what their development workspace looks like. similar to how gnome is doing https://twitter.com/gnome/status/1240732132076445696
<brainwash> jphilips: why though?
<jphilips> PR mainly
<albinard> Reporting test of Xubuntu Core from 30/18 ISO: Installed on HP p7-1010, AMD64, BIOS, 6GB RAM.  First ran Live version: successful.  Install done from Live was quick and successful.
<albinard> After configuring GUI, currently running as Daily Driver.
<jphilips> albinard: sweet
<jphilips> did you report the testcase?
<albinard> No place on QA site to report from this ISO.  I didn't use the mini install plus.
<jphilips> oh xubuntu core :D
<jphilips> where can i get the iso?
<albinard> https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/pending/
<jphilips> sweet as i only saw the 19.10 release on the website http://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/
<jphilips> artwork contribution page has been updated. if you notice any problems, please let me know so it can be rectified.
<jphilips> https://xubuntu.org/contribute/artwork/
<Unit193> I kind of forget that not everyone knows about that, I've linked it in the past of course and there's build announcements here too. :3
<jphilips> Unit193: would be good to have it i the menu of the core website :D
<Unit193> Well certainly not menu, perhaps a note on the download page though.
<jphilips> QA contribution page has been updated. if you notice any problems, please let me know so it can be rectified.
<jphilips> https://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa
<jphilips> Unit193: yep that would do
<Unit193> Not entirely sure I want to do that though, as some people tend to just think "latest is greatest"
<Unit193> https://unit193.net/xubuntu/core/ perhaps that'll do, hrm..
<jphilips> yes the download page would do. if you found the 18.04 files, would be good to add those as well ;D
<Unit193> As I mentioned before, I only build with the current release so prior ones get removed.
<Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/zYUAmzU11TLWOhzkVs4Z/ is the other wording change you mentioned, btw.
<jphilips> might want to also mention it takes up less resources
<jphilips> also the 'Installation' heading is confusing
<jphilips> likely should be 'Alternative Installation'
<jphilips> as that isnt the way to install xubuntu core
<Unit193> Technically the correct way to install it is from the mini.iso, but this whole page was copied from an email I composed to xubuntu-devel a while ago. :P
<jphilips> :D
<Unit193> https://git.unit193.net/cgit/users/unit193/unit193.net.git/commit/?id=dda789dace754cffa58f1752b0d24f1c552470ff actually finally committed the change.  Can you tell I dislike writing websites? :P
<jphilips> if you'd like me to go over it for you and give you an updated xubuntu.txt file, I'd be happy to
<jphilips> or git patch if you prefer that
<Unit193> With regards to resources used, I don't think there's enough of a difference there to mention really.  I've not compared it, but most of the same daemons should be running and of course xfce is still xfce (and the themes are the same, etc.)
<Unit193> Was there something else that jumped out at you, then?
<jphilips> i analyzed xubuntu core and my finds are here
<jphilips> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xa5DMZErb6NrwS1oGTGB1jntXsjLUaySg5PMvJzWbpM/edit#heading=h.j7jlhoss0ess
<Unit193> I should wrap lines..
<jphilips> it doesnt include 7 auto start apps from the full version
<jphilips> 4 of them are enabled while 3 are disabled
<Unit193> Hrm, gnome-system-tools is useful for setting clock/etc, meh oh well.
<Unit193> Note that the site does try to be a little vague, such that I don't have to specifically compare and re-write it every release (though I do diff manifests anyway, of course..)
<jphilips> the other issue i mentioned before was the 'See also Appendix A of the Xubuntu docs.' which didnt have a link
<jphilips> didnt get what this text means 'and only adding what you want.'
<Unit193> Yeah unfortunately there isn't a perma link I can use.
<Unit193> "You hopefully don't have to purge as much crap on initial installation before installing what you actually want."
<krytarik> Unit193: https://docs.xubuntu.org/latest/user/C/appendix-packages.html - in this context, I remembered having suggested (iirc) a "latest" symlink before, and as it turned out there is! \o/
<Unit193> Yep, I just found https://docs.xubuntu.org/current/user/C/appendix-packages.html myself.
<Unit193> krytarik is the one I somehow managed to pull in and fix a few CSS things.
<krytarik> Yeah, thought of "current" too, but stopped short of also checking it since I already found the other. >_>
<Unit193> I logged in to the server to check..
<krytarik> >_<
<jphilips> Unit193: it says 'only ships Xfce' and likely should be 'only ships basic Xfce' as it doesnt have mousepad or catfish
<krytarik> https://git.xfce.org/ - as per the 'core' definition though.
<jphilips> oh okay, so 'only ships core Xfce'
<krytarik> Yeah, that's what came to my mind too, but then again..
<jphilips> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Xfce%20Core
<Unit193> 'Xfce' is fine enough though, it's modular so it can be kind of confusing for some.  I wouldn't say 'core' because that might be overuse and there's a lot of extras.
<jphilips> i've edited the text in the google doc for your review
<jphilips> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xa5DMZErb6NrwS1oGTGB1jntXsjLUaySg5PMvJzWbpM/edit#heading=h.jox35y126dr1
<jphilips> none of the text should require updating
<Unit193> Not really sold on 'core Xfce', and it just doesn't have the community wallpapers, it still has all the Xubuntu default ones.
<jphilips> core gone, and community wallpaper added
<Unit193> Kind of wondered if catfish shouldn't be moved from desktop to core, but that's likely excessive.  I don't see anything else that jumps out at me.
<Unit193> (Did I really have that typo?)
<Unit193> Ouch.
<jphilips> there were two typos that google doc noticed - targetted and courses
<jphilips> searching on a desktop seems kind of core, especially when you are doing it from thunar
<jphilips> other file managers have search inbuilt
<Unit193> I guess there's other search options though, so.
<jphilips> will thunar link up with those search options if installed?
<Unit193> But yeah, that looks pretty good I'd say.  Thanks for the review.
<jphilips> glad to help. i'm preparing a tweet to point to the page, so want it to be at its best :D
<Unit193> Oh dear... :P
<jphilips> let me know when you've update it, so i can send out the tweet
<Unit193> Want to format-patch, so it gets your name?
<jphilips> okay let me clone and work on it
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-21
<jphilips> okay done. how do i send it to you
<Unit193> pastebin or email?
<Unit193> (Not the Ubuntu one, I can't wget that.)
<jphilips> https://pastebin.com/MU36FQJ3
<Unit193> I'll correct your linking, though.
<jphilips> i felt they maybe off :D
<Unit193> link:/xubuntu/core/[downloads page] just this one.
<jphilips> like missing the s in https for the download page
<jphilips> or yes that way
<Unit193> Live.
<jphilips> sweet. scheduling the tweet for sunday, hope your server can handle the traffic :D
<Unit193> It already does 10-20G a day, I don't see why a little more would hurt.
<krytarik> "browser" â "web browser" just to be clear though?
<Unit193> Bowser?
<krytarik> Yowser?
<jphilips> Super Mario?
<krytarik> Also, given the start of the sentence, "be more targeted"
<jphilips> yes likely should have been ', but to target advanced users'
<jphilips> Unit193: was running core in VM and noticed this stuff
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/YuNqiAK.png
<jphilips> wasnt able to get to live session on 19.10 core
<jphilips> https://imgur.com/D0gKg70.png
<jphilips> 20.04 worked
<jphilips> is the contributor documentation shipped with each release, and if so, where can i find it
<krytarik> Nope, just the user one.
<jphilips> so the contributor docs are only online?
<krytarik> Yeah.
<jphilips> the contacts page mentions slickymaster as the documentation lead. does he show up often
<Unit193> Don't think I've seen him since before december.
<jphilips> was looking at the xubuntu-docs translation page and its last release shows as 18.10 - https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs
<krytarik> jphilips: Because that's when the code was moved from Bazaar to Git, and LP does only do translations on the first still..  So we've set the old Bazaar branches to mere 'import' ones: https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/+branches
<jphilips> krytarik: so are translators still using LP to submit translations?
<krytarik> Yeah.
<jphilips> we seem to have a backlog of translations in 'needs review' and not sure whether to ask people to contribute to translations if their work would go unused
<krytarik> That depends on the various translation teams though, which we have hardly any control over.
<krytarik> I.e. some just suck. >_>
<jphilips> so without approval from the translation teams, the submissions wont get in
<krytarik> Yeah.
<krytarik> This has been a bottle neck for some time in the past already.
<jphilips> from my work on twitter, we do have a good user base who are japanese and it would have been create to ask them to contribute to the docs
<jphilips> been great* to 
<krytarik> Well, either them or us could always try and contact the Japanese translator team to make them aware of the backlog and hopefully clear them.
<ochosi> hi everyone, sorry to miss the team meeting. quite busy at work atm...
<Unit193> Crap, I didn't do the after-meeting things.
<bluesabre> ochosi: that's all good. :)
<bluesabre> Work only slowed down for me once they closed everything and made us WFH. :)
<Unit193> bluesabre: Psst, don't forget -session. ;3
<bluesabre> Unit193: oh yeah
<bluesabre> Suppose I'll go ahead and upgrade to 20.04 so I have the latest packaging things
<bluesabre> (and can test everything I've broken in the last 5 months)
<Unit193> All of it.
<bluesabre> Sounds right.
<bluesabre> ochosi: don't forget to vote on wallpapers
<Unit193> bluesabre: I'm a little concerned we're going to be shipping an LTS soon with xfce4-screensaver which seems to be known to segfault in relation to docking. :3
<bluesabre> Unit193: I have a fix for that in master, just gotta get a release out
<bluesabre> It's annoyingly a bug in GLib/Gdk, where it reports more monitors than are actually connected :(
<bluesabre> but yeah, if there's a crunch, we can fall back on light-locker
<bluesabre> The release is currently pending 2 bug fixes for issues caused by the workaround.
<Unit193> Ah, wondered if we shouldn't ship a commit or two to get more testing done, guess that answers that.
<bluesabre> Should have it fixed this weekend
<jphilips> Unit193, knome: is there any way that either of you guys could set this up, so we can have an irc to telegram bridge - https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
<bluesabre> Not inclined to go outside ;)
<Unit193> Nope.
<Unit193> bluesabre: I had a nice walk this evening. :P
<bluesabre> Unit193: that sounds nice
<jphilips> Unit193, knome, pleia2: alternatively there is a nodeJS implementation if that is easier to setup - https://github.com/RITlug/teleirc#installation
<jphilips> wxl: you may want to upgrade to this one ^^^
<jphilips> if anyone is interested in installing it and needs assistance, they can visit the #rit-lug-teleirc channel
<jphilips_iso_tes> if you are running the installer with internet access, a 'release notes' link appears on the first page of the installer which links to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases?os=xubuntu&ver=20.04&lang=en
<jphilips_iso_tes> but the page has no mention of xubuntu or any of the other flavors on it
<jphilips> is this something we want to fix?
<Unit193> bluesabre: Poked Corsac, feel free to add a comment.
<Unit193> ochosi: Did you see the proposals, btw?  I noted you wouldn't like moving away from symbolic icons.
#xubuntu-devel 2020-03-22
<jphilips> when will the branching for 20.10 happen?
<Unit193> 20.04 gets released, 20.10 gets a name, there's pre-open freeze (initial transitions, bootstrapping, etc.) then the archive is opened.  What do you mean by 'branching' in this context though?
<jphilips> using branching in the context of git branching, where master would be 20.10 and 20.04 would be a separate branch, like we currently have master as 20.04 and 19.10 as a different branch
<Unit193> For what repo, then?
<jphilips> well i guess xubuntu-defaults so i could submit patches for the default i proposed
<jphilips> are any of these old FAQs useful these days https://xubuntu.org/news/tag/faq/
<jphilips> is changing the .desktop file's label for gnome software from 'Software' to 'Software Manager' or 'Software Store' something doable
<jphilips> should we encourage testers to join the xubuntu testers team - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers
<jphilips> i've reviewed the help & support webpage - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qenHqnop4DWne2DsX5nPgaN7xdJLzL6etb0gfBGL6fk/edit#heading=h.fsdgs1i4rdsd
<jphilips> knome, pleia2: ^^^
<bluesabre> jphilips: RE: faqs, the ones that are not release-specific, definitely.
<bluesabre> jphilips: RE: .desktop file, not at this point in the cycle, but yes it's doable (and something Ubuntu did for a while)
<bluesabre> jphilips: RE: branching, we wait until the end of the cycle so we don't have to keep 20.04 and 20.10 branches in sync, but you can create your own branch and submit a MR
<bluesabre> Unit193: any news on Ayatana indicators making their way into Ubuntu?
<jphilips> bluesabre: thanks for the info. does the of the cycle, mean the day the LTS is released?
<bluesabre> jphilips: yep, then we branch master into the latest release code name, and continue development in master for the next cycle
<jphilips> Unit193: tweet went out 4 hours ago. Let me know how the jump in downloads go
<jphilips> people were asking for the 18.04 core iso and i found it online, so maybe consider putting up the torrent file or magnetic link
<jphilips> 64bit - https://btdb.io/torrent/7728679d017e596021153147e80bceff2062445f
<jphilips> 32bit - https://www.skytorrents.lol/info/ab966a80b1b0568fb351b90a8404dff6ef015951
<jphilips> facebook comment: "No offence, but the site looks like a malware or gore site. Perhaps change its style to something a little more trusting and professional to bring new users in. Thanks ð"
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/elementary-xfce/+bug/1868457
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868457 in elementary-xfce (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] elementary-xfce 0.15 for focal" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> I'll tag the right folks shortly
<bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/greybird-gtk-theme/+bug/1868459
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1868459 in greybird-gtk-theme (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] greybird-gtk-theme 3.22.12 for focal" [Undecided,New]
<bluesabre> I'll also try to finish getting the themes into gtk-common-themes
<bluesabre> But from what I was experimenting with before, many snaps seem to hardcode adwaita as the theme, and there's not a user-friendly way around that :(
<jphilips> bluesabre: we should likely bundle the full adwaita rather than just the base, as its a bad UX to click on it in Appearances when its like that
<bluesabre> !info adwaita-icon-theme-full
<ubottu> adwaita-icon-theme-full (source: adwaita-icon-theme): default icon theme of GNOME. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.32.0-1ubuntu1 (disco), package size 7144 kB, installed size 22007 kB
<bluesabre> Yeah, that's not too monstrous, and the depends are tidy enough, https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/adwaita-icon-theme-full
<bluesabre> Unit193: thoughts on including that for -desktop?
<jphilips> i chatted with JackFrost about it last week or so
<jphilips> it is only 7mb to download and 23mb installed, so definitely not to big
<pleia2> jphilips: thanks, I made some comments in the doc
<jphilips> pleia2: thanks
<jphilips> so for those that dont already know, i've teamed up with the other flavours for a ubuntu testing week starting on the 2nd of april (beta release day)
<jphilips> like all the other flavours, we will put out an announcement of this testing session for xubuntu using points found in this google doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PVui1kB1JijGCoBPdkrg4P94LS4DozLtEJ37GKWga2E/edit#
<jphilips> comments are welcome
<jphilips> pleia2: do you have the time to prepare the xubuntu announcement text?
<pleia2> it's a month away, so it's not even on my radar yet :)
<pleia2> you're welcome to draft something if you'd like though, following the format of past announcements
<jphilips> this testing announcement is for the 26th
<pleia2> ah, not today, have to go pick up the kiddo in a few minutes
<jphilips> not a problem, when you are free is fine. please have a look at the google doc above when you get a chance
<Unit193> bluesabre: You mean as far as the Ubuntu ones being dropped in favor of Ayatana?  Really not fond of including an icon theme we don't use though.
<Unit193> bluesabre: And I guess there's the answer, add the new dep then Debian will add the gir stuff. :P
<jphilips> help page has been updated - https://xubuntu.org/help/
<Unit193> Minor nitpick if you so desire, the 'correct' way to spell 'freenode' is with a lowercase 'f'.
<Unit193> (Yes I know you didn't introduce that, just noting.)
<jphilips> fixed
<Unit193> Also, looks like that did bring a few more visitors to the Core site.
<jphilips> sweet
<jphilips> any thoughts on putting up the 18.04 torrent
<jphilips> if anyone wants to recommend a webpage on the site that i should edit text, you are welcome to do so :D
<Unit193> Linking to it?  That's likely the correct one, but would be nice to find confirmation in my logs.
<Unit193> At least the site seems decent enough (with adblock) it wouldn't be the *worst* thing to link to..
<jphilips> no i wouldnt recommend linking to the torrent site
<jphilips> you can upload the torrent file to your site or alternatively just give the magnetic link
<jphilips> i downloaded the 64-bit but the 32-bit had no seeds
<Unit193> Well then, guess that's moot.
<jphilips> if you still have the 32-bit iso around, i could seed it
<Unit193> I don't, as noted I remove old releases.
<jphilips> well thankfully 64bit is still around, which is whats important ;D
<Unit193> (As I noted before, Xubuntu Core isn't a "supported LTS release" :>)
<jphilips> oh wait, there are seeders
<jphilips> i'm downloading it
<jphilips> was thinking to send you a patch, but this doesnt look like the download page - https://git.unit193.net/cgit/users/unit193/unit193.net.git/tree/pages/xubuntu/core.txt
<Unit193> Yeah it's not.
<Unit193> Like I said though, not too keen on linking old releases. :3
<jphilips> what do people think about a 2 column download page - https://imgur.com/yUuvtQ3.png
<Unit193> How's it look on box screens?
<jphilips> box screens?
<genii> Not that great
<genii> 4:3 ratio screens
<jphilips> not sure about 4:3, though very few people have such resolutions these days
<Unit193> Not sure if 'very few', but yeah they're not as widespread now.  Though I'd imagine we still get those visitors.
<jphilips> do we have any stats counter on the site?
<jphilips> okay tested it at 1280 width and still looks fine
<jphilips> < 3% use 1024 width https://gs.statcounter.com/screen-resolution-stats/desktop/worldwide
<jphilips> "My Nut by bluesabreWife" :D
<jphilips> https://xubuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/8af9/My_Nut_by_bluesabreWife-1600.jpg
 * Unit193 ponders if this is going to be SFW...
<jphilips> yes sfw
<jphilips> its a wallpaper
<Unit193> (Joking...)
<jphilips> does the community menu seems strange to anyone, with sub entries for contact us, brand resources, products, and donate
<jphilips> entries under development seem more like they should go under community, so it has sub entries for get involved, developer area, derivatives
<ochosi> hm, looking at the wp contest voting and/or results doesnt seem to work 
<ochosi> i guess "i'm holding it wrong"
<ochosi> oh right
<ochosi> i was looking in the wrong place
<jphilips> ochosi: any idea when the votes will be finalized so we can announce the winners
<ochosi> nope, i just voted a few minutes ago myself
<jphilips> anyone else left to vote
<bluesabre> Yep
<bluesabre> Possibly
<bluesabre> Looks like we're up to 5 people having voted
<Unit193> So you're saying I should do that...
<bluesabre> Yes, please :)
<Unit193> There were so many choices, and not a lot of the style I use,  I just put it off. :3
<Unit193> !info elementary-xfce-icon-theme unstable
<ubottu> elementary-xfce-icon-theme (source: elementary-xfce): elementary icon theme modified for Xfce. In component main, is optional. Version 0.13.1-1 (unstable), package size 5729 kB, installed size 18482 kB
<Unit193> > 0.14 is up
<ochosi> kewl thanks
<Unit193> ochosi: To Debian, specifically.
<ochosi> sure, that's much appreciated
