#ubuntu-women-project 2010-02-22
<wintellect> \o
<wintellect> issyl0: you there?
<wintellect> \o czajkowski
<issyl0> wintellect: pong
<issyl0> czajkowski: !
<czajkowski> how's folks?
<czajkowski> issyl0: sorry was only in London for the day
<czajkowski> issyl0: no school?
<issyl0> czajkowski: oh, no worries.
<issyl0> czajkowski: it's still half term, I go back tomorrow.
<czajkowski> well for some :p
<issyl0> Haha
 * issyl0 checks Launchpad and "bzr pull" some revisions that have gone on overnight to the Ubuntu Manual stuff... I've started helping out with the Ubuntu Manual project as well, so I've been learning LaTeX which is very nice, and I've been learning how to use Bazaar :)
<Mamarok> nice :)
<czajkowski> issyl0: nice one!
<issyl0> Yeah, thanks! :)
<czajkowski> issyl0: how is your wiki page coming along?
<issyl0> czajkowski: not bad, take a look if you want > http://wiki.ubuntu.com/issyl0
<issyl0> czajkowski: still no testimonials, but I will work on getting people to write some at some point!
<issyl0> Ew how do I make LaTeX leave gaps for new paragraphs instead of just indenting the next line?
<czajkowski> issyl0: I shall write one later
<czajkowski> issyl0: you don't mention your non ubuntu work.
<issyl0> czajkowski: oh, thank you :)
<issyl0> czajkowski: I do a little bit...
<czajkowski> freenode/wikipedia
<czajkowski> defy
<czajkowski> you do a lot
<issyl0> Hmm, I'll add some stuff later then.. :)
<issyl0> Thanks :)
<wintellect> issyl0: did you get the "vim spell checking" sorted out?
<issyl0> wintellect: no, but it turned out it was spelled right anyway.
<czajkowski> issyl0: np, and if by friday I've not done it, can you poke me please
<issyl0> wintellect: it would still be nice though...
<issyl0> czajkowski: sure
<issyl0> Hmm, also how do I make the title show up in LaTeX, and why on earth do I keep writing Inspector Google instead of Inspector Goole :P
<wintellect> issyl0: are you using Vim v7?
<wintellect> (or greater)
<issyl0> How do I find out?
<issyl0> I think so :)
<wintellect> "vim -v" on the command line
<wintellect> will upon up vim with its version and help info
<issyl0> IJ
<wintellect> are you using the CLI or the GUI version of vim?
<issyl0> wintellect: CLI :D
<wintellect> cool
<wintellect> then, in "command" mode (non-typing mode) type this@
<issyl0> Mmhmm, version 7
<wintellect> erm, this:
<wintellect> :set spell
<wintellect> it will not highlight all words spelt incorrectly :D
<wintellect> to correct a word, move the cursor onto that word and type:
<wintellect> z=
<wintellect> it'll give you a list of options
<wintellect> issyl0: did that help?
<issyl0> wintellect: it did, yes, thanks! :)
<wintellect> :)
<wintellect> issyl0: BTW - you can turn it off with ":set nospell"
<issyl0> wintellect: oh, thanks :)
<wintellect> Apart from twidge - can anyone recommend a CLI based twitter/identica client?
<czajkowski> wintellect: gwibber?
<czajkowski> sorry
<czajkowski> you want CLI
<wintellect> yeah
<czajkowski> sorry don't know of any
<jussi01> wintellect: http://gabrielcain.com/projects/twitter/
<jussi01> also http://www.floodgap.com/software/ttytter/
<jussi01> oh what the heck, there are loads of them :D http://www.google.fi/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=cli+twitter+client
<AlanBell> wintellect: dutchie is writing one in python/ncurses
<wintellect> AlanBell: sweet!
<wintellect> jussi01: thanks for the suggestions, but I need ones that support identi.ca too
<Tm_T> wintellect: for identi.ca, irssi-plugin-xmpp (;
<wintellect> Tm_T: thanks
<jussi01> I think rbot has plugins for both - if you want it "from irc"
<wintellect> jussi01: sweet, from IRC would be perfect
<jussi01> I know it has twitter and Im pretty sure it has identi.ca
<jussi01> anyways, hometime
<czajkowski> jussi01: half day
<jussi01> czajkowski: hrm?
<jussi01> its 4pm here
<czajkowski> hometime, at this hour ;)
<jussi01> and Ill still do some work at home also...
<jussi01> but 8am-4pm makes a full day
<czajkowski> oh nice
<czajkowski> oh you're nearly 2 hrs ahead
<jussi01> no, exactly 2 hrs ahead of you :D
<highvoltage> http://www.examiner.com/x-16806-Long-Island-iPhone-Games-Examiner~y2010m2d21-Apple-removes-over-5000-apps-from-iPhone-app-store
<highvoltage> "2. No images of men in bikinis" - nice touch :)
<AlanBell> highvoltage: I wonder what happens when rule 6 meets rule 34
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-02-23
<wintellect> \o
 * elky concludes that premade voting packages that can support large chunks of text all have a bad case of major suckiness.
<akgraner> czajkowski, ping :-)
<akgraner> elky, the cards were a huge success!!
<akgraner> crap - time zones...  :-/
<czajkowski> akgraner: pong
<elky> akgraner, they got there?!
<elky> sweeeeeeet!
<elky> i was so worried they wouldn't get there in time
<akgraner> elky, yep!  gave out like 200 of them.. I have about 50 left... Shared with the other UW folks that were there as well.. I'll send you some of the posters as soon as they arrive :-)
<elky> wow 200 of them went? nice
<akgraner> czajkowski, got a few mins to talk NGO related stuff??
<czajkowski> akgraner: sure
<akgraner> elky, yep - gave Michelle, Akk, and dinda some to pass out as well...
<elky> so much easier to get someone to take a widdle card as opposed to a huge ream of text, eh :)
<rww> akgraner: cards as in the ones we had at the SCaLE booth?
<akgraner> rww, yep
<rww> elky, akgraner: those were /awesome/
<akgraner> elky, the CA LoCo team did a great job of helping spread the word as well.
<akgraner> Issue 4 of Ubuntu User has a full page article on UW as well - it should hit news stands soon
<rww> we had them on the table with the rest of the various Ubuntu handouts. Lots of people picked them up and asked questions :)
<akgraner> rww, and I think most of those folks found their way of to the Linux Pro booth at some point during the day as well.. so great cross-promotion going on there
<rww> akgraner: yep, we sent a few of them over to you :)
 * czajkowski wants Ubuntu User! 
<akgraner> popey,  has a great article he co-authored on UDS-L..in issue 4 as well...
<akgraner> I ordered the UW posters in Bulk so I should have more than enough after next week... so if someone is going to an event and needs some just let me know (The posters are the ones elky designed on the resources page)
<popey> :)
<elky> akgraner, did my return address remain legible on the package?
<akgraner> nope :-(
 * elky will /msg
<akgraner> elky, thanks :-)
 * czajkowski needs to finish her talk for Saturday
<czajkowski> lack of net in the evenings may help with productivity
<akgraner> oh cool what is your talk on?
<czajkowski> I think I'll do same as last one
<czajkowski> just new content
<czajkowski> need to come up with a new title for March talk though, differnt college and some of the same students
<czajkowski> on the phone to TC and laughing at her
<czajkowski> in her hungover state, she bought a massive fridge, got it loaded onto a truck got home, very hunogover from shopping and not able to get the massive fridge off on her own. At least that's what she thought for 3 hrs, then snow came so heavily she got it down, and sliced her figners, 5 stictches
<akgraner> rut roh!
<nigelb> huh?
<czajkowski> akgraner: she went celebratig with her co-workers and she was only female. 18 blokes, and ended up in a strip club till wee hrs of morning doing shots. Then went and moved and bought stuff for new house.
<czajkowski> don't know how she does it
<akgraner> czajkowski, WOW!  when you find out houw she does it - let me know..  I could use energy like like ;-)
<czajkowski> akgraner: no idea, she has 3 young kids and sports on a Saturday. Have you read her blog ?
<akgraner> czajkowski, I do - but I usually pick a day and catch up on it..
<czajkowski> http://tc55travels.blogspot.com/ so proud of her
<czajkowski> 2 weeks time she's home, CANNOT_WAIT
<akgraner> czajkowski, I can't remember - does she use ubuntu?
<nigelb> czajkowski: whose blog is that? it seems utterly familiar....
<nigelb> have you posted the link before? my browser seems to remember it (strange)
<czajkowski> nigelb: my mate who just moved to Canada
<czajkowski> akgraner: not yet :)
<nigelb> czajkowski: ah, you've posted it before and yes its in my feed reader.
<czajkowski> nigelb: single mum of 3 wee kids who uped and moved to Canada due to job losses here. Found job, house and schools for kids, and follows how she deals with crap every day :) but does everything for the monkies
<nigelb> czajkowski: wow!
<czajkowski> nigelb: one post is on her being a taxi
<nigelb> czajkowski: its amazing! the way she writes and *what* she writes :)
<czajkowski> nigelb: trying to explain to her that other than me and her mum,people read her blog
<czajkowski> :)
<nigelb> lol
<nigelb> she doesn't have a counter?
<akgraner> The slide decks from the WIOS talks at SCaLE are really cool - as soon as I get the links I will post them for everyone..
<czajkowski> nigelb: don't think she checks, I leave a comment so she knows I've read it
<czajkowski> and even then she boggles, it's rather fun
<nigelb> akgraner: if you get the video or at least audio of michelle's talks, please please post it
<akgraner> nigelb, her talk was awesone
<nigelb> czajkowski: oh.  She should put in some counter.  I'm sure there are plenty you can just paste into blogger and she'll get full statistics
<akgraner> awesome
<nigelb> akgraner: i know.  I badly wanna see how she presented
<czajkowski> nigelb: I may wait till she gets over to ireland before i tweek stuff
<nigelb> czajkowski: :)
<akgraner> when you see Gareth in either channels poke him  - he was one of the organizers of SCaLE - you may see him before I do :-)
<nigelb> isn't he already there in the other channel?
<akgraner> yep but he is on the west coast in California - it's only like 6:50am there
<rww> 5:50am, actually
<akgraner> so his computer may be online but he may not be
<akgraner> rww, yep you are right
<rww> so unless his sleep schedule is as messed up as mine...
<nigelb> I'll leave a PM
<nigelb> I'm sure he'll see it some time
<akgraner> tww I know the feeling... and if I was Gareth or any of the SCaLE planners I would be off the computer for a week...
<czajkowski> HEHE http://tiagovaz.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/creative-retaliation/
<maco2> czajkowski: thats awesome
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> figured some folks would get a kick out of it
<maco2> rather tempted to send it to my dad
<maco2> hes against that socialist healthcare-for-everyone stuff
<maco2> im still confused about the part where "socialist" is supposed to be an insult. seems to work well for most of europe..
<nigelb> czajkowski: lol, too bad canada lost though :(
<maco2> nigelb: hence "retaliation"
<nigelb> maco2: why exactly are people against the healthcare for all?
<nigelb> I thought it was supposed to be good
<maco2> because they think government doing stuff = socialist = communist = OH GOD STALIN'S GOING TO GET US!!!!
<nigelb> maco2: so you'd rather trust people who want to get every penny from you?
<maco2> my sister actually asked me why we cant just let uninsured people who go to the ER and can't pay out of pocket die, since if they wanted healthcare they shouldve worked harder
<nigelb> 0_o
<maco2> yeah, the "american dream" is like "anyone can get to the upper class if they work hard enough" ... thus, anyone who's poor is a lazy bum who doesnt deserve anything
<maco2> somehow the fact that luck is a HUGE factor in moving between classes never occurs to them
<nigelb> +1
<JanC> don't doctors in the US have to take hyppocrates's oath anymore?  ;)
<nigelb> maco2: I recently saw sicko, how true is it with regard to us healthcare?
<maco2> nigelb: i have no idea. never saw it.
<maco2> JanC: yes, which is why my sister loses ;)
<maco2> a lot of americans are anti-welfare (ie the dole) because some people might abuse it.
<JanC> they should also be against guns then  :P
<nigelb> maco2: abuse it meaning they feel some people would get more healthcare and some people less?
<maco2> like, "well jeez, why should ANYONE get a job if you can just sit around on your arse collecting welfare??  just pop out a few more babies and you get more money. no wonder you see all those welfare people with such big families!"
<nigelb> thats fair isnt it? some people are more sick that others
<maco2> it's very "every person for themself"
<nigelb> the alpha behavior
<JanC> maco2: I think the easy answer to that is "so if you really like that, why don't you go sit in a trailer park and pop out babies?"
<maco2> my sister also asked why her tax money should go to helping other people.  nevermind that she doesnt earn enough to pay taxes to begin with.  my brother and i, who do, told her "because it's the right thing to do"
<maco2> JanC: because then they couldnt look down their noses at people in trailer parks ;)
<nigelb> maco2: because when you run into troubles the govt will pay you back?
<JanC> maybe it's also because they can pay more to "private welfare" then  ;)
<JanC> where you can list how much you donated to which welfare project  ;)
<maco2> ive come to the conclusion just now that a large portion of americans are barbarians
<maco2> JanC: what? charities?
<JanC> yeah, charities and whatever else they can be named
<nigelb> maco2: its just the way everything is approached
<nigelb> most of the time, even from school, it is "the result is what counts"
<czajkowski> maco2: it can be frustrating when a person works pays taxes and what not and folks don't and demand so much. I feel like saying go get a job any jobs, contribute and then I'll listen more.
<nigelb> not the fun in reaching there or the journey there
<czajkowski> I don't however :(
<JanC> obviously, there is difference between asking a minimum and demanding (too) much
<maco2> czajkowski: yeah, which is why i think welfare should involve some oversight like "have you applied for jobs?" since its supposed to be when youre between jobs, but i also think they could do more with like training so that the people *can* find jobs
<czajkowski> it does here
<czajkowski> you;'ve to prove you're looking
<czajkowski> show rejection letters,
<czajkowski> after 1 year you get reviewed, after that every 6 months.
<JanC> lol, that sounds fun, as most companies don't even bother to send those?  :P
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> you've to show you're at least trying to find a job
<czajkowski> but we've over a 1/4 million on the dole
<JanC> anyway, you have to show you're looking for a job in .be too
<JanC> I guess they can check with the companies themselves to be sure...
<czajkowski> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits#Ireland
<maco2> the "they have big families to get more money" thing bothers me though... because how do they know thats why the family is big?  maybe they're catholic!  catholics arent supposed to use contraception or get abortions.  you'd think my catholic family would know this...
<nigelb> czajkowski: that sounds reasonable
<czajkowski> nigelb: it's rather high imo
<nigelb> czajkowski: It depends on what is the definition of minimum standards of living
<JanC> OTOH, it's not high if you have to pay off on a mortgage, a car, etc.
<nigelb> ah
<czajkowski> chances are if you're on the dole, you're also getting rent allowance, and medical card, if you've children you're also getting childrens allowance.
<JanC> but it you can certainly live on it otherwise
<nigelb> people might think, "hey he has no job but he gets to have a car and house" though
<czajkowski> it's  atouchy topic tbh
<nigelb> yep
<JanC> when companies lay off 1000s of people, all of them having to sell their house & car wouldn't be good for the economy either
<JanC> but maybe most people rent in .ie ?
<czajkowski> http://bit.ly/cWUGL8 changing the subject to a more on topic one
<czajkowski> JanC: nope a lot own, in fact there are THOUSANDS of brand new homes ready to move in but nobody is buying due to current economy
<JanC> which could lead to even more companies going belly up and even more people unemployed...
<czajkowski> sure our construction industry is gone. In my home city over 5K people lost their jobs when Dell pulled out
<JanC> and that's why _some_ tempering or dampening is good (in general European citizens feel crisises less than US citizens, but we also benifit less from heights in the economy)
<JanC> of course deciding on the right level of "dampening" is not trivial  ;)
 * Mamarok wonders what this has to do in this channel, there is a socail channel in #ubuntu-women
<Mamarok> else I really don't see the point to have split it
<maco2> czajkowski's not in the social channel
<czajkowski> maco2: no the idea was that social chatter can happen here if folks want, it's just logged also.
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> Mamarok:
<czajkowski> lordie I'm having tab fail
<Mamarok> czajkowski: That is not what I understood, sorry
<Mamarok> and I absolutely don't see the need fro two channels for social chatter
<Mamarok> it diultes everything, why not bury the project while we are at it?
<czajkowski> it's project related, but social chatter will happen, that's life. If folks don't want their stuff loged, then that's fine.
<Mamarok> this makes no sense at all
<czajkowski> I also copied in a link re women in technology but nobody commented on that
<czajkowski> Mamarok: sligtly OTT comment tbh re burrying the project
<Mamarok> czajkowski: it was decided that this channel is about the Ubuntu-Women project, and that the old one was for social discussions, having those in both is simply pure nonesense
<maco2> one of the reasons for having the social chatter separate though was so people wouldnt have to dig through logs of chatter to find the project-related bits of the log
<czajkowski> maco2: Mamarok a comment on the mailing list even said as much re social chatter will happen in here, but again point out if folks have issue with conversations being logged re social stuff to point to the other channe;
 * czajkowski shall go back to being silent now
<czajkowski> better!
<Mamarok> czajkowski: we were asked to vote for, and it was clear why this split was made, I really don't think it is apporpriate to turn this channel in a social chatter on, too
<Mamarok> appropriate*
<maco2> oooh cool permissions were carried over
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-02-24
<hypa7ia> nhandler: connection issues?
<akgraner> Here is the link to the UpSCaLE talks from SCaLE :-)  http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4859689  I move around way to much...:-/
<czajkowski> evilnhandler: you are no way evil, not possible for you to be
<evilnhandler> :)
<jussi01> czajkowski: all staff must have an evil$nick ITS IN THE LAWS OF IRC I TELLS YER! :D
<czajkowski> jussi01: well you are EVIL :p
<jussi01> awww, now Im sad... :(
<czajkowski> :p
<czajkowski> nigelb: aloha
<nigelb> hey czajkowski :)
<akgraner> question:  anyone care to share best practices for following up with people after a conferences?  Things you like to see in emails things you don't?
<czajkowski> hi remember me we spoke about XXXX I said I'd follow up or get back to you regarding YYYY
<czajkowski> something to jog my memory
<czajkowski> this is why my moo cards have a photo of me
<czajkowski> face and name
<akgraner> good idea..
<czajkowski> akgraner: I get them from time to time
<akgraner> hehe
<highvoltage> moocards!
<akgraner> patrick told me about them at OSCON  - I so need to get some
<czajkowski> moo.com
<akgraner> awesome!
 * czajkowski bans that word
<nigelb> czajkowski: give us a replacement word then
<akgraner> czajkowski, hey I am using it less and less - but every once in a while it just slips out :-P
<czajkowski> Great
<czajkowski> akgraner: and you're not doing ..... ..... and.... any more :)
<akgraner> :-P
<czajkowski> <--- easily pleased
<czajkowski> I really need to work on my talk tonight
<czajkowski> driving home Friday
<czajkowski> akgraner: did I show you https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam/Events/February-2010-Talks
<akgraner> I need to put my slides up from SCaLE
<akgraner> nope - but you did now :-)
 * akgraner looks
<akgraner> oh cool - looks like a fun event
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> It's my old Uni
<czajkowski> so kinda nervous and proud at the same time
<czajkowski> actaully refresh the page
<akgraner> I bet.. but I am sure you will be awesome  - I mean great :-p
<akgraner> oh that is way cooler
<akgraner> er um  - I mean the new logo reflects the excitement, fun, friendly, inviting spirit of what I am sure will be an energetic, engaging and educational event :-)  :-P  (See I can say things other than awesome ;-P )
<akgraner> czajkowski, who did the logo - I like it!
<czajkowski> skynet
<czajkowski> sharky is our mascot
<czajkowski> www.skynet.ie
<maco2_> i just keep thinking "isnt that the evil thing in terminator?"
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> https://wiki.skynet.ie/Admin/SkynetMachines?action=show&redirect=Users%2FMachine+Names
<czajkowski> akgraner: I can't promise, but this may tug at your apron strings  http://tc55travels.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-do-i-stop-my-babies-growing-up.html
 * akgraner reads
<maco2_> woah!  http://nextsprocket.com/
<maco2_> it's for open source bounties
<maco2_> you can say what you want done on open source software and how much you'll pay, then developers submit code, and you pick which one you want and pay them
<akgraner> oh yeah - who was talking about that this weekend
 * jussi01 prods at maco2_ ... is it alive?
<maco2_> jussi01: whats up?
<maco2_> i have most of my UI in existence now!
<maco2_> and i can sort of make sense of qt4-designer now, though i think it's got a confusing interface
<jussi01> maco2_: ahem... how do I know you are the real maco?
<maco2_> because who else would answer like that?
<jussi01> maco2_: just identify... ;)
 * jussi01 hugs maco2_
<maco2_> freenode wont let me /nick til i part #ubuntu-kernel
<maco2_> 08:53 [Freenode] -!- maco2 #ubuntu-kernel Cannot change nickname while banned on channel
<jussi01> youre banned?
<maco2_> i assume this means -kernel is still in "omg youre not registered?!?! no sending to channel!" mode
<maco2_> no i'm currently joined to -kernel
<maco2_> i have to /part, /nick, identify, /join
<maco2_> and i dont feel like it
<czajkowski> maco2_: are you in ##unavailable
<jussi01> hrm...
<maco2_> czajkowski: no
<czajkowski> maco2_: alternaively do /msg nickserv nick identify pwd
<jussi01> -kernel is only +nt afaics
<czajkowski> and that will sortit
<jussi01> yup
<jussi01> was about to suggest that
<jussi01> you can be any nick and still identified
<maco2_> nickserv just asked what the hell i was doing
<jussi01> just do it in your status buffer, ok... :D
<maco2_> telling it "maco identify <password>" just confused it
<jussi01> /msg nickserv identify nick password
<maco2_> ah ok that did it
<jussi01> :)
<maco2> oooh shiny
<nigelb> welcome back maco2
<nigelb> and be careful when you say shiny (brenda uses that nickname) :p
<maco2> heh yeah i keep screwing her up with it
<maco2> i have teh impression im not the only person to have picked up that word from firefly
<nigelb> lol, I did that once or twice :p
<maco2> because she said she really should have thought harder before using it as a nick
<nigelb> haha, like the guy with nickname as nick
<maco2> i usually say something like "oooh <that word>!" the next line is "<that word>: not you"
<nigelb> hahaha
<nigelb> price to pay when you use dictionary words as nicknames
<czajkowski> <---- pretty unique just folks strugle with it
<nigelb> lol, when you're not around, I pretty much refer to you by first name coz I can't spell czajkowski
<maco2> you could just say "cz" and we'd know who you meant
<czajkowski> Laura Cz works
<czajkowski> :)
<maco2> i think you're the only laura, so just laura does work rather well too
<czajkowski> just in public I tune out to Laura, chances are there are other Laura folks around, so roaring Czajkowski works a lot better
<maco2> er, around here, i emean
<maco2> *mean
<czajkowski> nope lauracowen
<nigelb> (come to think of it, I might struggle with pronouncing your last name :p)
<maco2> nigelb: you know the musician, tchaikovsky? like that
<nigelb> maco2: and the first bit?
<maco2> laura?
<nigelb> lol, no
<nigelb> the czaj part
<maco2> that the tchai bit
<czajkowski> Chi Kov Ski
<maco2> just say it like "chai" as in tea
<nigelb> I'd rather shout out laura
<czajkowski> we'll see how responsive I am so
<czajkowski> :p
<jussi01> czajkowski: are you claiming to be a famous composer now? :D
<czajkowski> jussi01: yes my dear of course I am
<nigelb> czajkowski: thats like in the event that we do meet (which in itself is a next to impossible thing)
<nigelb> maco2: you handy with python?
<maco2> nigelb: nope
<maco2> nigelb: i know very little python. i used to be able to do enough to write website scrapers
<maco2> the project im working on now is pykde, but i havent actually learned to use it yet ;)
<nigelb> maco2: um, apport hook.  wanted a little bit of help with masking some values ;)
<maco2> popey: your blog "don't you know who i am?" tagline... "umm... elvis?"
<popey> :) wondered how long before someone would notice that :)
<nigelb> lol
<maco2> popey: now you just need a pink & gold spaceship!
<popey> ooookay
<maco2> have you not read the hitchhiker's series?
<nigelb> maco2: http://pastebin.com/XTrQLPGD what is the dumb thing I did here thats apparent to you
<nigelb> I know its wrong, but I dont know *what* is wrong or how to correct it
<nigelb> oh no! I scared her away :p
<nigelb> jussi01: you around?
<jussi01> hrm, they quit :(
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-02-25
<jussi01> nigelb: you were after me?
<nigelb> jussi01: lol
<nigelb> just wanted to gloat after yday's match :P
<jussi01> nigelb: sshhhhh
<jussi01> :D
<nigelb> hahaha
<AlanBell> is the mentoring thing on the agenda about giving mentoring, or getting mentoring, or both?
<czajkowski> http://www.phpwomen.org/wordpress/2010/02/24/phpwomen-launches-partnership-program , interesting
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I'd say both
<czajkowski> seeing as it needs to be kick started adn explained
<AlanBell> both seem like good things to encourage, but somewhat separate problems
<czajkowski> well you need to discuss both really to move on
<AlanBell> I like the criteria for the PHP partnership thing "you need to ensure us that your community is not made up of jerks"
<czajkowski> dont think the ubuntu community is so we're kinda ok there :)
<czajkowski> php is based up of so many groups, bit harder
<AlanBell> oddly enough the only three people I could name as "PHP developers" i.e. not just people who do a bit of Wordpress/Joomla! hacking are all women.
<czajkowski> Anyone in the UK - http://adalovelaceday2010.eventbrite.com/
<wintellect> \o
<czajkowski> Pendulum: Aloha
<Pendulum> czajkowski: hiya
 * Pendulum looks at the date
 * Pendulum is nervous
<czajkowski> what time is at, NON UTC time
<czajkowski> like local USA time
<Pendulum> 6PM eastern time
<czajkowski> :D
<AlanBell> @now eastern
<AlanBell> no ubottu
<AlanBell> !ping
<ubot2> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and you expect me to respond to a ping? How depressing.
<Pendulum> issyl0: thank you :)
<czajkowski> Folks seen http://is-she-you.com/
<AlanBell> not sure I get that
<wintellect> the "+" letter used in one of the vids looks very much HP's font
 * AlanBell predicts that if whatever it is takes off there will be lots of not very witty "woman + car = accident" joke attempts on twitter
<czajkowski> aye
<czajkowski> if it takes off correctly
<czajkowski> it could be interesting
<czajkowski> dholbach: aloha :)
<dholbach> hi czajkowski
<Pendulum> hiya dholbach
<dholbach> hola Pendulum
<Pendulum> akgraner: is there a mention of this channel on the UW wiki yet? (I haven't had a chance to look)
<Pendulum> because I'm not sure many people know it exists
<czajkowski> not seen it tbh
<czajkowski> I should blog
<czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/02/25/ubuntu-women-new-channel/
<czajkowski> done
<Pendulum> \o/
<nigelb> that was fast
<czajkowski> yeah I'm cracking up with this ticket
<Pendulum> nigelb: czajkowski is a speed blogger ;)
<nigelb> Pendulum: hehe
<czajkowski> that and not much content goes into my blogs
<akgraner> Pendulum, not yet if you want to handle that you can.. just haven't gotten to it on my list :-)
<czajkowski> akgraner: yer alive!
<Pendulum> I will try to remember to do it tonight (not right now as I'm trying to balance work and helping with a -classroom session)
<Pendulum> akgraner: how're you recovering from the weekend?
<akgraner> I have a voice now :-)
<czajkowski> Pendulum: and you've got your membership tonight
<akgraner> but construction is happening - so it's a mad house here atm
<Pendulum> czajkowski: Like I could forget :P
<nigelb> thanks for the reminder czajkowski.  I had forgotten to add my testimonial :)
<akgraner> Pendulum, good Luck I have plans to attend to lend support :-)
<Pendulum> akgraner: thanks :)
<Pendulum> everyone except me seems pretty confident I'll be fine. I was hit by a bundle of nerves last night and czajkowski can tell you I'm now thinking of everything that could go wrong
<czajkowski> including snow storm
<czajkowski> bus break down
<czajkowski> no internet
<czajkowski> we've covered all aspects of a work around :)
<Pendulum> don't say no internet, I hadn't thought of that one :(
<nigelb> Pendulum: we'll mail chris' phone down to you
<Pendulum> nigelb: I can get on from my phone
<nigelb> there you go, work around
<akgraner> czajkowski, yep I was holding off on the wiki stuff as we need to add some content about this channel as well not just point to it :-)  But if we can get the content done and added that would be great :-)
<czajkowski> akgraner: I guess to the IRC Guidelines we need to add a section about the 2 channels
<akgraner> czajkowski, yep wanna put up a gobby doc or the other thing you use and we (and anyone else who wants) can collaborate on it and get that done?
<czajkowski> akgraner: will do that tonight I plan on being online all evening
<czajkowski> provided my evil ISP stays up!
<czajkowski> but there really isnt anything else to say bar point out the 2 channels and point out one is logged and the other isn't tbh
<akgraner> hehe yeah I will be online as well... only about 150 emails to reply to now *sigh*
<hypa7ia> on box zero?  i'm happy when i have inbox <1000
<hypa7ia> :(
<akgraner> guidelines I was thinking was just a quick blurb about them not a long drawn out thing
<hypa7ia> *inbox
<nigelb> hypa7ia: 0_o
<nigelb> I thought I got plenty of mails (50 a day)
<akgraner> hypa7ia, I am not sure I want to see that many emails in my inbox
<czajkowski> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcGuidelines
 * AlanBell is at inbox 100718
<czajkowski> see we have this http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcGuidelines
<AlanBell> oh hang on, not that bad
<AlanBell> 10718
<czajkowski> personally I don;'t think the oper guidelines should be on that page
 * nigelb wonders if AlanBell added zeros thinking it has no value ;)
<czajkowski> perhaps as a seperate page
 * czajkowski has inbox 12 
<AlanBell> czajkowski: there are a few other pages if you search, like how to use irssi etc
<czajkowski> however I need to send 14 mails
<czajkowski> AlanBell: but that;'s not got anything to do with the Guidelines fpr IRC specific to -women/-women-project
<akgraner> yep just a small blurb about the channels -
<hypa7ia> yeah, most of that existing page applies to both
<AlanBell> no, and the guidelines should be done once, just there might be more pages than you expect that just tell people one channel they should join
<czajkowski> hypa7ia: aye
<czajkowski> but again should oper inforamtion be on IRC Guidelines
<hypa7ia> makes sense to me to split that off into like OperGuidelines or something
 * hypa7ia logs in
<czajkowski> hypa7ia: aye
<czajkowski> as it makes the page rather long and I'd rather add the blurbs there
<akgraner> hypa7ia, yep.. I just thought to tell people to join both and outline the differences nothing drawn out
<hypa7ia> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IRCOpGuidelines && http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcGuidelines done
<czajkowski> hypa7ia: you edit wikis FAST!
<czajkowski> fecker :p
 * akgraner refreshes page
 * hypa7ia is good at the copy and paste :)
<akgraner> so now we just need to add the info about the -project stuff right
<hypa7ia> yar
<czajkowski> http://etherpad.com/NuiXuXVLF4
<czajkowski> akgraner: hypa7ia http://etherpad.com/NuiXuXVLF4
<hypa7ia> we also need to update https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayCha
<hypa7ia> err https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
<hypa7ia> mentoring and volunteering stuff should be in -project
<Pendulum> also isn't there a webgateway on the UW page? shouldn't that direct here now?
<hypa7ia> Pendulum: probably
<hypa7ia> well we could also have links for both super easily
<hypa7ia> what page is that on, Pendulum ?
<Pendulum> I don't know off the top of my head and I'm at work so can't easily find it now
<hypa7ia> kk
<AlanBell> it is on the home page of the wiki
<hypa7ia> who's the contact person for this channel?
<Pendulum> akgraner: ^^ ?
<akgraner> hypa7ia, me :-)
<hypa7ia> ok, i figured :)
<akgraner> I don't think I added any of that stuff yet.. I set the channel up  - added a few ops then had to go to SCaLE so there are still some things that need to be tweaked
<hypa7ia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat is fixed
<AlanBell> which channel will meetings be held in?
<akgraner> I also need to add the join message about logging here as well...and stick it in the topic  ahh how did I miss that...??
<AlanBell> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings may or may not need to be updated
<hypa7ia> AlanBell: ooh good point
<akgraner> AlanBell, this one - I have to send that to the list as well...:-)  Do you want to drop the MootBot-uk in here?
<AlanBell> and mootbot may or may not need moving
 * hypa7ia tries to figure out etherpad
<AlanBell> I could ask Daviey to do that
<akgraner> AlanBell, Thanks :-)
 * AlanBell pokes Daviey with a please add mootbot-uk here shaped stick
<akgraner> hypa7ia, sorta like gobby but easier I think
<akgraner> :-)
<hypa7ia> how do i tell it my name?
<akgraner> hmm mine just shows up when I join
<hypa7ia> mine showed up as czajkowski, lol
<nigelb> hypa7ia: just click at the side there should be a color and name field
* akgraner changed the topic of #ubuntu-women-project to: This Channel is LOGGED | http://women.ubuntu.com | support (mostly) at #ubuntu | channel guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcGuidelines | Next meeting: 2 March @ 2100 UTC | More information on this channel coming soon!
<AlanBell> hypa7ia: oops sorry! that was me.
<hypa7ia> hehe
<issyl0> Pendulum: oh, no problem :)
<AlanBell>  you should be able to edit it if you click it I think
<Pendulum> you can :)
<AlanBell> if someone is on and hasn't named themselves anyone can guess at it
<czajkowski> one of me is more than enough folks
 * AlanBell notes a general lack of disagreement to the last point :-)
<czajkowski> :p
<czajkowski> Have a query re
<czajkowski> ubuntu-women - this channel is for the discussion of all non-project related topics: social discussions, issues
<czajkowski> i had thought it was to be used more if ther ewas an issue in the public that needed more private discussion ?
<czajkowski> or am I wrong ?
<Pendulum> I think it's a bit of both
<hypa7ia> rather than saying issues we could say "anything that folks don't want to discuss in a logged channel"
<czajkowski> but that could be anything....
<czajkowski> like I think ireland should be win the world cup
<hypa7ia> ok, "anything that folks don't want to discuss in a logged channel that is relevant to the work of the ubuntu-women project"
<czajkowski> hence why I was saying, issues. again could be me just over simplifying it
<hypa7ia> i mean it's a social channel
<czajkowski> -women issues that you dont want made public, -w-p for all other stuff
<czajkowski> hypa7ia: aye, I just dont want folks killing coversation as has happned in here when social chat was happening and folks were being chatting and then next second there were 8 hrs of silence
<nigelb> later folks, work :)
<czajkowski> nigelb: bye
<hypa7ia> since the main purpose of logging this channel is to make it accessible to non-irc-ers and folks who aren't perma-connected, i think we should try to stay on-topic
<hypa7ia> i mean, that is the purpose, right?
<Daviey> Hallo
<czajkowski> hypa7ia: social chat still happens on project channels, tis a fact of life and human nature to just talk
<czajkowski> Daviey: oi oi :)
<AlanBell> Hi Daviey
<hypa7ia> czajkowski: of course, doesn't mean we can't try to keep it to the social channel :)
<czajkowski> I'm sure we cna try, but folks telling me to shut up again will likely be met with  feck off in a more inpolite manner
<czajkowski> :)
<akgraner> hypa7ia, maybe something like - in an effort to keep the logs as project related as possible for longer social discussion please go to -women???
<czajkowski> well thats' only if someone has a problem with stuff being discussed in a logged channel
<czajkowski> I'd like to see you tell the lads over in -desktop/-release to move their chat please
<Pendulum> I think some of it is that some of us are more comfortable doing all our chatting in logged channels
<hypa7ia> akgraner: that's what i'd prefer in the guidelines
<akgraner> czajkowski, Pendulum no one is saying you can't have social chat in here.. but just offering a loose guideline - just like saying the CoC applies is a guideline
<hypa7ia> Pendulum: i understand that, but that wasn't the consensus to come out of the voting process
<czajkowski> akgraner: lose is one thing, being told to shut up and move your conversation elsewhere I have objections with
<akgraner> that wording was used?
<czajkowski> yes
<hypa7ia> when was this, ?
<czajkowski> earlier on this week
 * akgraner is surprised  - I have not read all the logs from when I was at SCaLE.
<AlanBell> I believe the wording was slightly different, but going over it would be overly pedantic
<hypa7ia> no, i think it's important to clarify this
<AlanBell> well it is in the logs of course!
<AlanBell> I think it would be rather tiresome if there were repeated discussions in here of what constitues off-topic
<hypa7ia> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/02/23/%23ubuntu-women-project.html#t15:56 i presume
<hypa7ia> that was a little more polite than "shut up"
<hypa7ia> i'll go back through the logs of the discussion on the new channel, but i'm pretty sure the intention wasn't to have two primarily-social channels
<akgraner> czajkowski, I hate that happened and thus the need to clarify that social discussion CAN happen in both channels so there is no confusion on this..
<czajkowski> akgraner: yes
<AlanBell> as I understand it this is primarily project related and the other one is exclusively social
<czajkowski> and yes prolly more politer than shut up, but being told to stop talking socially, when there was people talking, sjust made everyone stop. which to me seems counter productive.
<czajkowski> now I need to cook dinner
<akgraner> hypa7ia, the one constant was that social chatter would naturally happen in both places - but that it would be encouraged for the social stuff to happen in -women
<hypa7ia> akgraner: that was my understanding too
<czajkowski> Andre_Gondim: aloha
<Andre_Gondim> czajkowski, hi
<hypa7ia> it's not that social stuff can't happen here, but that it's preferred to be in #u-w
<czajkowski> Andre_Gondim: not seen you here before, so welcome
<Andre_Gondim> czajkowski, a just saw the post on planet, is it welcome man here?
<czajkowski> Andre_Gondim: yes
<akgraner> but if the conversation is not inappropriate then I can't see asking someone to move it..:-/ again a loose guideline
<czajkowski> Andre_Gondim: of course, many are in here welcome.
<Andre_Gondim> sounds good :d
<czajkowski> go figure people read my blog :)
<Andre_Gondim> :D
<czajkowski> always makes me laugh
<akgraner> czajkowski, people love your blog!
<czajkowski> akgraner: hehe
<hypa7ia> Andre_Gondim: for a good idea of what's appropriate, have a look at the link in the channel /topic
<hypa7ia> :)
<MarkDude> czajkowski, Yes you do some stuff worth reading :)
<Andre_Gondim> ok, I will recommend this channel for my ladys' friend
<hypa7ia> the way irclogs.ubuntu.com are organized annoys me :(
 * Mamarok sighs and ponders leaving that project alltogether, everything getting utterly diluted and making no sense anymore
<akgraner> Mamarok, I am sorry you feel that way - the only real difference is the addition of an IRC channel - the project still has the same goals
<Mamarok> akgraner: well, I just don't see the point of a second channel anymore if both will be just social chatter
<hypa7ia> no kidding
<Mamarok> which puts a very bad light on a project aimed at facilitating women in technbology
<Mamarok> so one chatter channel is really enough, two is nonsense
<akgraner> I am hoping this one won't be "heavy" with social stuff - but it is bound to have some social chatter in it..
<Mamarok> akgraner: so far it is heva on social stuff only, so the goal was obviously missed
<Mamarok> heavy*
<akgraner> yes, because no one is bringing up project stuff (well this conversation is)...
<AlanBell> the agenda is a bit light at the moment, just mentoring to discuss (which we did earlier btw)
<akgraner> AlanBell, but not in detail
<Mamarok> and is is diluted by chatter over and over
<Mamarok> so how on earth are you going to trace real stuff form chatter?
<Mamarok> s/from/in/
<akgraner> Mamarok, which is why I wanted to work on the guidelines and get that added..
<AlanBell> no, not in detail, as yet
<Mamarok> akgraner: then why allowing chatter in here anyway? Didn't we decide on the other one being purely chatter?
<AlanBell> are there other topics to add to the agenda?
<Mamarok> chatter in both is true and utter nonsense
<akgraner> Mamarok, chatter will naturally happen
<Mamarok> we could as well move to a facebook group then
<Mamarok> akgraner: not if it is not allowed
<hypa7ia> there is a facebook group :)
<Mamarok> hypa7ia: you miss my point
<akgraner> AlanBell, yep I have a few I'll add then soon, but I have to run to a meeting - I'll catch back up on the logs  - should only be on the call for an hour or less
<hypa7ia> Mamarok: i was being intentionally obtuse :)
<AlanBell> akgraner: great
<hypa7ia> Mamarok: have you seen http://etherpad.com/NuiXuXVLF4 and do you have any suggestions for it?
<AlanBell> I will be updating the spreadsheets of members tomorrow
<Mamarok> hypa7ia: well, I am strongly opposed to any chatter in this room
<Mamarok> it dilutes the aim of it, and since it is a logged channel for project related talk, it should really *not* allow social chit-chat
<james_w> how does "discussion of all non-project related topics" mesh with "Social chat is still welcomed?"
<hypa7ia> hrm, that wording is a bit weird james_w
<akgraner> it's a work in progress..
<akgraner> waiting for my phone to ring...*sigh*
<james_w> ring ring
<Mamarok> akgraner: so the line with "Social chat is still welcomed has to go, I am strongly against it
<hypa7ia> yeah
<hypa7ia> i'm with that
<hypa7ia> i'd prefer to see "social chat is discouraged from this channel as it is intended to focus on the concrete work of the project" or somesuch
<Mamarok> good wording :)
<hypa7ia> not "it's banninated" but definitely "discouraged
<akgraner> I like that wording but note some social chat will happen naturally (good morning, how are you, stuff like that)
<hypa7ia> yeah, that's fair - i think that falls within "discouraged" :)
<Mamarok> akgraner: that is OK, but what currently happens is just random chit-chat that definitely doesn't belong here
<AlanBell> it is possible to be friendly *and* relevant
<hypa7ia> AlanBell: friendly does not necessarily mean long drawn out social chatter
<akgraner> on the call now  - brb
<hypa7ia> kk
<AlanBell> I have to say I am more worried about long drawn out and damaging discussions of what isn't relevant. Just lead by example and steer discussions towards relevant things.
<hypa7ia> oh, which reminds me, if anyone's in a channel that jono's in, please remind him that suggestions like his blogging-about-IWD thing should probably go in here rather than #u-w
<Mamarok> and to the mailing list
<AlanBell> hypa7ia: that has already been mentioned to him
<hypa7ia> AlanBell: i'm pretty sick of talking about this too
<hypa7ia> AlanBell: ah, cool, thanks
<AlanBell> thank popey not me
<Pendulum> complete change of topic: anyone else interested to see the stories for the International Women's Day contest?
<hypa7ia> yes!
<Pendulum> I absolutely failed to enter due to a last minute work thing that ate my weekend, sadly :(
 * hypa7ia has a new job, seems like a reasonable excuse :)
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> I should really just blog about it
<Pendulum> (I'm a failed blogger... I think my last entry was December)
<czajkowski> hypa7ia: whats the new job ?
<czajkowski> still in Toronto ?
<hypa7ia> new job is consulting, i'm still in Toronto
<hypa7ia> but i don't really want to talk about my job in here.
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> Came across this today http://women.acm.org/
<hypa7ia> i think maco's involved with them
<czajkowski> looks interesting
<Pendulum> cool
 * hypa7ia refers the discussion in http://etherpad.com/NuiXuXVLF4 over here
<Mamarok> good idea
<hypa7ia> folks were going to leave the project if #ubuntu-women was logged too
<hypa7ia> we can't expect to keep everyone happy
<Mamarok> and those were group decisions
<hypa7ia> and the clear thing that emerged from the discussions about a second channel was a need for /project-related/ discussions to be visible
<hypa7ia> that is the clear will of the project
<hypa7ia> from this whole process
<hypa7ia> and turning this into a social-as-well channel, to me, derails that
<czajkowski> I'm not saying social channel, I'm saying social chat will happen.
<czajkowski> folks may not want to joing the unlogged channel. I for one Don't
<hypa7ia>  /but should be discouraged/
<czajkowski> I'm not the only one
<hypa7ia> i'd love to hear from other folks who feel the same, czajkowski, as yours is the only voice i've been hearing
<hypa7ia> s/hearing/seeing/
<czajkowski> well then I'll keep shut so
<Mamarok> czajkowski: it was a group decision, like it or not
<hypa7ia> sigh, czajkowski - that wasn't a shut up, that was a please get those other folks to speak up too
<Mamarok> but being member of a group means to accept the rules made by the group
<czajkowski> Mamarok: yes but your dictating what we can and cannot socially chat about
<czajkowski> social chatter happens in every channel
<Pendulum> honestly, I'm really not into being in the unlogged channel either
<hypa7ia> but when projects have two channels, the chatter is encouraged to be moved to the -offtopic or other social channel
<Mamarok> czajkowski: I don't think I am dictating, but it is obvious that we wanted this channel to be -project only
<hypa7ia> see #ubuntu vs #ubuntu-offtopic
<Pendulum> I'm not bothering to join when I'm at work and I'm not really paying attention to it when I'm home
<Pendulum> mostly because I am far more comfortable with logged channels than unlogged channels
<Mamarok> Pendulum: you can keep personal logs, you know that?
<hypa7ia> ok, so that's a second person, thank you Pendulum
 * akgraner catches up - off my call :-)
<Mamarok> hypa7ia: don't yu think we should ask everybody? Hence asking on the mailing list
<Mamarok> you*
 * AlanBell is more comfortable with logged channels
 * hypa7ia just doesn't get the appeal of public logs for social chatter, grep is so much easier
<AlanBell> sounds like an agenda item to me
 * Mamarok doesn't care, Internet is a bublic space anyway
<Mamarok> public*
<MarkDude> I feel apprehensive to speak on some subjects. I dont want to offend UW. These conversations make my brain hurt. Im trying to help & learn stuff here. Im thinking Ill PM my friends here 1st - just to make sure Im on topic.
<Mamarok> hm, my typing is sub-par...
 * hypa7ia prefers keeping her own logs and not having her every word google-indexed
<Pendulum> hypa7ia: I can't log while at work
 * MarkDude thinks he is not the only one slightly confused here.
<Mamarok> Pendulum: you can use a bouncer from home
 * AlanBell thinks MarkDude is right
<hypa7ia> Pendulum: why not leave your client on at home, or use a bouncer, etc etc
 * hypa7ia is also confused as she thought this crap was mostly sorted after the vote
<hypa7ia> like seriously, can we move on to doing actual work?
<Mamarok> good idea
<MarkDude> How about that we just tell people that have been here for a while to move to other channels (if needed). New-users we give MORE wiggle room, and teach folks slowly?
<MarkDude> :)
<MarkDude> And focus on mentoring  & banning trolls
<hypa7ia> Pendulum: i've been using irssi in screen for years and would be happy to help you get it set up if you'd like
 * AlanBell sees zero trolls in the logged channel
<Mamarok> AlanBell: only be cause it is new
 * hypa7ia notes that the logged channel has been around for how many weeks?
<akgraner> I think there will be some confusion and frustration while it all gets ironed out.. I think people need to be aware of how they ask/discourage people from the social chatter and I think this is def something that can be worked out
<AlanBell> Mamarok: yeah, it will be interesting to see how that situation develops over time
<Mamarok> once it will be on the wiki they will flock in
<Mamarok> + long enough on the wiki
<AlanBell> good, I think trolls should land in logged channels as a general rule
 * hypa7ia will happily keep banning the trolls and creeps wherever they end up
<Mamarok> AlanBell: it will not prevent them from landing in the other one first, though
<akgraner> I don't think we need to poll everyone about social chatter in here as we stated during the other discussions that some social chatter will happen.. and we need to just be aware and guide the correct conversation
<hypa7ia> AlanBell: exactly
<hypa7ia> err that was directed at akgraner :)
<akgraner> :-)
<AlanBell> guiding the conversation and leading my example seem to be appropriate ways to deal with this topic
<hypa7ia> anyway, i'm personally committing to keep my social chat in #u-w
<AlanBell> s/my/by
<Mamarok> ditto
<hypa7ia> as i don't like talking about personal stuff in logged channels - it makes me deeply uncomfortable.
<hypa7ia> i don't care if people log privately, it's the google-indexing that bothers me
<hypa7ia> so, how about that mentoring project? :)
<akgraner> I know there are some people who only log in here...but I think we can sorta figure it out as we go - or at least we ought to be
<akgraner> svaksha added it  - but I was talking to people at SCaLE who are really interested to see what initiatives we are going to take and what out implementation will be
<akgraner> people=women in the greater open source community
<Pendulum> One thing I think about the mentoring program is that it's important the mentors are female
<Pendulum> last I checked the mentors on the mentorship page were at least half male
<Pendulum> and if I were to come to UW for a mentor, I'd do it specifically to find a female mentor
<akgraner> Pendulum, I do too, but there is only one core-dev that is female, and I am not sure how many female MOTU's the project has
<hypa7ia> those aren't the only things one can be a mentor for, though
<Pendulum> yeah
<akgraner> no I didn't mean to imply that
<Pendulum> I think it's just a matter of starting and expanding
<hypa7ia> yeah
 * Mamarok should add herself
<akgraner> I agree - but didn't want to limit the mentorship b/c there was not enough woman available to mentor
<Mamarok> I just will have a few overcharged months ahead, so I can't mentor immediately
<akgraner> women even *sigh* I fail at typing today :-(
<Pendulum> akgraner: no, I don't think it's worth limiting, but I do think we should focus on getting female mentors
<akgraner> Pendulum, definitely
<hypa7ia> the other thing with mentoring is that you don't necessarily need to be an expert, you just need to know how to ask the right questions and have some confidence
<Pendulum> yeah
<hypa7ia> at least that was my experience with GSoC
<Pendulum> but mentors are good all over the place
<akgraner> so how about we send something to the mailing list and post to the forum that we are looking for women to mentor women and ask for people to sign up and list what areas they are available to mentor in?
<akgraner> but that we are not limiting it to only women, but would like to see more women helping women in the community
<Pendulum> yes
<Pendulum> also we should think outside the "developers, MOTU, bugsquad" box
<Pendulum> for example, I think czajkowski has done a lot of (unofficial) mentoring of me in terms of community stuff
<Pendulum> (which I have very much appreciated)
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> ;)
<czajkowski> I still wont be adding my ame to the list however.
<akgraner> right there are a lot of non-technical things people can mentor people in
 * hypa7ia is awesome at generic sysadmin stuff and happy to mentor on that
<Pendulum> hypa7ia: I might poke you about that sometime because it's stuff I'd like to learn, but have never really known where/how to start
<Pendulum> (really I want to learn everything, but that's probably over ambitious ;) )
<hypa7ia> hehe
<Pendulum> oh, I'm totally that person who is interested in everything
<Pendulum> I once told someone that about my only thing I could think of that I'm not interested in is economics, however, that's not quite true as I used to be involved in some NGO work where I really could have used economics knowledge
<hypa7ia> also i think it's worthwhile if you're willing to do a bit of newbie-holding / new user mentoring
<hypa7ia> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Mentors
<hypa7ia> we could also just add an (optional) gender column to the table
<hypa7ia> any objections there?
<akgraner> hypa7ia, no objections from me but I think we also need to note why the information is important b/c we will get asked...
<Mamarok> indeed. But how to word that?
 * hypa7ia will try to come up with something
 * Mamarok prefers to leave the wording to native English speakers
<hypa7ia> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Mentors
<hypa7ia> thoughts?
<AlanBell> I like it, and wiktionary confirms that mentees is in fact a real word
<hypa7ia> lol
<czajkowski> sounds like mental
<hypa7ia> perhaps i should clarify that for non-english-native-speakers
<hypa7ia> there we go :)
<issyl0> Pendulum: how did the meeting go?
<Pendulum> issyl0: it's not for another 3 hours
<issyl0> Pendulum: hmm... oh!
 * issyl0 re-reads the email :)
<Pendulum> 6PM EST/ 11PM UTC
<hypa7ia> we have a meeting today?
<Pendulum> hypa7ia: Americas Membership Board
 * Pendulum is going for membership
<hypa7ia> ooh!
<hypa7ia> ping me!  i'll be there!
<Pendulum> I will do my best! if I have not frozen with nerves!
<Pendulum> I was fine until about 24 hours ago
<Pendulum> and I think between work and the fact that our weather is really bad and stuff I started worrying
<Mamarok> hypa7ia: I added a dsicalimer because of my tight schedule in the next few months, is the wording OK?
<issyl0> :))
<Mamarok> disclaimer*
<issyl0> Pendulum: you'll do fineee!
<Pendulum> but I am leaving work 30 minutes early so I can be sure to be home (unless something happens badly on the busride) and I just need to stop being me and stop worrying :P
<akgraner> I'll look over the stuff the stuff for the wiki page for the IRC channels and add it later tonight.  I need to finish a couple things before the membership meeting tonight...  If you all need me for something ping me as I prob won't be looking at IRC for a while...
 * Mamarok should maybe also warn about her dislexia, her typing is quite bad today :(
<maco2> what time's the meeting
<hypa7ia> Mamarok: fixed a typo, looks great :)
<pleia2> maco2: 23:00
<Mamarok> hypa7ia: thanks a lot :)
<issyl0> I just realised I can't be there, it's too late, but let me know how you get on and I'll catch up with the logs, I idle in #u-meeting anyway :)
<Pendulum> pleia2: you will be there, right?
<Mamarok> hi maco2 :)
<pleia2> Pendulum: yep
<Pendulum> issyl0: I'll let you know :)
<Pendulum> pleia2: good! hadn't seen you around for a few days so was getting a bit worried there ;)
<maco2> pleia2: 2300 est or utc?
<pleia2> maco2: utc
<Mamarok> 2300 UTC
<maco2> so 6pm here-time
<Pendulum> yes
<pleia2> Pendulum: the move has me pretty overwhelmed, plus coming back to work this week after a week of being off... gah
<Mamarok> UTC+1 here, so a bit late, will see if I am still awake enough
<pleia2> and worse - I stayed up for a migration last night that the guy didn't show for, so I waited an hour and had to reschedule for tonight
<Pendulum> pleia2: I'm sure. I hope stuff calms down (or at least gets back to normal) soon
<hypa7ia> 5pm mountain time!
<Pendulum> :(
<hypa7ia> woo texas
<pleia2> Pendulum: thanks :)
<AlanBell> texas is mountain?
<Mamarok> hm, if you follow the time zone up north there are mountains
<Mamarok> hm, the Contacts wiki needs to be updated
<Mamarok> maco2: are you really the only forum moderator? wasn't bapouma also a mentor?
<Mamarok> s/mentor/moderator/
<maco2> Mamarok: yes, she is
<maco2> isabella, i think, is her name
<Mamarok> Isabelle Duchatelle
<AlanBell> http://www.timetemperature.com/tzus/texas_time_zone.shtml only a teeny weeny bit of texas is mountain time
<AlanBell> although that bit is probably bigger than the UK
<maco2> Riddell asked me to name every country in Europe and was impressed that only missed 3 or so.  i asked him to name every state in the US and he said that's not the same scale at all. i told him our smallest state (Rhode Island) is bigger than their smallest (Vatican), so...GO!
<AlanBell> I fail at geography
<Pendulum> maco2: it's bigger that several small European countries
<Pendulum> *than
<Mamarok> ahem... topic?
 * hypa7ia actually meant central, not mountain, just to not steer anyone wrong :)
<AlanBell> we are now pretty much exactly halfway between UDS-L (held in Texas in Central time) and UDS-M (which will be held in a small European country)
<AlanBell> is it time to start thinking about stuff to blueprint for the next cycle?
<hypa7ia> probably :)
 * hypa7ia wants to go to a small european country :D
<czajkowski> Ireland is Very small  :)
<czajkowski> but come :D
<AlanBell> UDS in the Armarda?
<Mamarok> AlanBell: where is UDS-M?
<AlanBell> I wish I knew
<Pendulum> somewhere in Europe
<Mamarok> well, that is obvious, but where would be nice to know
<Pendulum> sadly no one seems to know yet :(
<Mamarok> though it's unlikely I can attend anyway :(
<Mamarok> so let's hope it's not in Switzerland, that would really annoy me
<hypa7ia> Mamarok: you're in .ch?
<Mamarok> yes
<hypa7ia> cool
<Mamarok> we are organizing a big developer sprint in May in Switzerland for various KDE projects right now
<Mamarok> so if UDS is during that week I can't attend
<Daviey> err, the dates have been released
<czajkowski> dates are up on summit.ubuntu.com
<czajkowski> nbut location isn't just yet
 * Mamarok looks
<AlanBell> follow the link to the launchpad sprint
<Daviey> I would be highly suprised if it's anywhere other than Brussels, Belgium.
<Mamarok> Daviey: what makes you think that?
<Daviey> Mamarok: lets just make a bet, shall we? :)
<Mamarok> Daviey: a nice Belgian beer then :)
 * Mamarok tries to attend, if not in person, then remotely
<Daviey> Mamarok:  sounds good
<Mamarok> Daviey: I just hope I can attend, be it only for a few days, Brussels is only 700 km from my place
<jussi01> brussels eh...
<Daviey> it'll be odd not flying to a UDS.
<Mamarok> jussi01: great beer and good food
<Daviey> jussi01: you can join the wager if you like? :)
<Mamarok> oh, I will likely fly anyway, 700 km is a day trip and quite exhausting
<jussi01> Daviey: Im with you ;)
<Mamarok> and I hate to travel by train
<jussi01> Mamarok: depends on what speed train you tak e :P
<Mamarok> jussi01: well, for me it would be a TGV to Paris and the to Brussels, equaly 7 hours, so I could as well drive there by car
<AlanBell> looks like Â£79 return on the Eurostar
<Mamarok> then*
<Mamarok> we should have an UDS at the Rolex Learning Center in Lausanne :)
<Mamarok> fantastic building, and absolutely appropriate for an UDS
 * jussi01 prays for sponsorship
<jussi01> I got to run
<jussi01> laters
<Mamarok> jussi01: I am not sure if I can attend, so I will not go for sponsorship
<hypa7ia> what's the story with sponsorship?
<Pendulum> it seems that there's a sponsorship app up
<czajkowski> it's not been annouced so I'd wait to apply
<czajkowski> then if you want to apply
<czajkowski> you just basically tell them your role and stuff you do for Ubuntu
<AlanBell> does that all go in the about yourself box or will there be more stuff on the following page(s) to say what you want to get out of UDS?
<czajkowski> in that box, some folks write it elsewhere and attach link there
<czajkowski> but folks
<czajkowski> we're getting ahead of ourselves
<czajkowski> it's not been announced yet
<AlanBell> indeed
<hypa7ia> meh, nothing wrong with getting a head start, is there?
<czajkowski> true
<Pendulum> nothing wrong with thinking about it and thinking about what to say
 * Pendulum just needs to get through tonight first, though
<czajkowski> basically you want to give them reason to have you there and what you will bring to Ubutnu for the next cycle
<czajkowski> Pendulum: brown paper bag at hand
<Pendulum> no
<Pendulum> still 20 minutes in the office left
<Pendulum> least productive day ever
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> yer bonkers
<Pendulum> especially in terms of other people actually thinking I'm getting things done
<Pendulum> (which they do)
<czajkowski> so I poked popele today on the mailing list re Pendulum application and time
<czajkowski> I see it as a way to help people have friendly folks on sstandby during the meeting
<czajkowski> issyl0: is now thinking of going for membership
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/issyl0  if folks would like to give her pointers on her wiki page
<czajkowski> or leave testiminals once she's gotten feedback I'm sure she'd appreciate it
<akgraner> For the mentoring page - what order are the names in?  or does it matter?
<hypa7ia> akgraner: they should probably be in alphabetical by first or lastname?
<hypa7ia> but it doesn't terribly matter
<akgraner> hypa7ia, I was going to add me in the mix but didn't know if there was a protocol I wasn't seeing just wanted to ask :-)
<hypa7ia> akgraner: i was operating on the JFDI principle
<hypa7ia> just frakkin do it :)
<akgraner> hehe - I think I do that most of the time - but every once in a while I stop and ask :)
<akgraner> good grief saving a wiki today is S-L-O-W  :-/
<czajkowski> Nearly there FINALLY http://pix.ie/czajkowski/1526926/size/800  all the emails I've left to reply to
<elky> re: stories. They'll be up by the weekend. Having to hand-code something for voting on them since we want more than the usual 25 reponses for surveymonkey, and survey packages on sourceforge suck majorly
<elky> i had internetfail last night courtesy of routerfail
<elky> It reboots itself if I put normal load on it. Not so useful.
<james_w> Daviey: I'll take that bet ;-)
<Mamarok> james_w: do you have other information we don't know of?
<james_w> I'm just messing with you
<james_w> trying to throw confusion in to the mix
<AlanBell> #startmeeting
<Mootbot-UK> Meeting started at 21:49. The chair is AlanBell.
<Mootbot-UK> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [PROGRESS REPORT], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<AlanBell> #endmeeting
<Mootbot-UK> Meeting finished at 21:49.
<Daviey> james_w: heh
<czajkowski> Pendulum: is ups shortly in #ubuntu-meeting for her membership folks
<czajkowski> pen is up now
<czajkowski> Congrats to pendulum on her ubuntu membership
<czajkowski> Pendulum: welcome and congrats
<Pendulum> thank you!
<Pendulum> sorry, I was trying to figure out why people were talking to me about Ubuntu Membership in -women and then realised I hadn't gotten in this channel yet
<czajkowski> heh
<Mamarok> OK, bed time for me now, good night everyone :)
<akgraner> Mamarok, night
<Pendulum> fyi, folks rww is now up for membership at the meeting
<popey> who?!
<popey> (kidding)
<Pendulum> popey: thank you :)
<popey> :) congrats
<Pendulum> can anyone in here answer the "who do I talk to about my cloak" question?
<popey> #ubuntu-irc
<Pendulum> (since I seem to have already been added to the launchpad)
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-02-26
<AlanBell> nice cloak Pendulum!
<dholbach> good morning
<Pendulum> AlanBell: thanks :)
<AlanBell> there are now 558 Ubuntu Members
<czajkowski> nice
<AlanBell> 25 of which are women
<AlanBell> although I did think we were up to 26 now, so I will have to check that
<czajkowski> is that all :(
<AlanBell> the overall percentage hasn't changed much since UDS-M
<czajkowski> well it won't really I guess as many more men go for membership then women
<rww> AlanBell: I assume you mean UDS-L?
<Pendulum> yeah :-/
<nigelb> rww: congrats :)
<rww> thanks :)
 * nigelb is preparing wiki
<nigelb> I realized I've done quite a bit which hasn't gone into the wiki
<Pendulum> nigelb: I started my wiki early so that when I decided to go for membership it wouldn't need any work (this also made things like my wiki page for UW leader easier) and pretty much just listed out everything I'd done
<Pendulum> then thought about things and listed out some more
<czajkowski> that and me nagging
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> works wonders
<nigelb> Pendulum: its just that after user days I really didn't update my wiki
<Pendulum> also, feel free to pick up the wiki formatting of someone who has already gone for membership (successfully)
<Pendulum> I picked up czajkowski's
<nigelb> I picked up joeb's wiki ;)
<czajkowski> having the wiki laid out well is half the battle as far as I can see
<AlanBell> rww yes, UDS-L
<nigelb> yeah, I've seen popey give out -1 before end of introduction because wiki is badly formatted
<popey> thats not true
<popey> its not bad formatting
<popey> its lack of content
<nigelb> yeah, that too ;)
<nigelb> most of the time they go hand in hand
<popey> even I'm not _that_ bad
<nigelb> lol
<nigelb> btw, is there any problem if I ask for memership with another regional membership board?
<Pendulum> nope
<nigelb> I dont think I'll be able to make the time of the my membership board
<Pendulum> I went with Americas because I knew I was most likely to be able to make an Americas board meeting
<Daviey> If you got rejected by one board, jumping straight to the next regional board might be a problem :)
<nigelb> lol, no.  I dont intend to do that ;)
<Pendulum> I considered going with EMEA, though, because at the time Americas didn't have a scheduled meeting
<nigelb> pleia2: ^ lol
<nigelb> bah, she i'll still be sleeping
<rww> Yeah, the Californians are all /theoretically/ asleep right now >.>
<Pendulum> I'm sure she's sleeping
<nigelb> rww: except for you?
<rww> nigelb: indeed
<nigelb> hehe :)
<nigelb> Pendulum: I could use some testimonial love :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NigelBabu
<nigelb> and lemme know if I should be changing anything
<Pendulum> nigelb: you'll get some when I am more awake :)
<nigelb> hehe
<nigelb> czajkowski, popey, AlanBell: could take some time to leave a testimonial? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NigelBabu
<nigelb> (and do point out mistakes, changes)
<popey> I'm sorry, I think it's best I dont. I have stopped putting testimonials on peoples pages. it can be akward, what with me being one of the regional message boards, so I generally only leave testimonials for people I know _really_ well or worked very closely with. sorry
<nigelb> popey: np
<nigelb> popey: anything I should correct though?
<nigelb> ugh! all the people I work with are in bed now ;)
<AlanBell> I will have a look later nigelb
<nigelb> AlanBell: thanks :)
<popey> nigelb: i would put a more direct link to the course you wrote
<popey> it's hard to rummage around in bzr during a meeting
<popey> preferably if you have a pdf or something, that would be better
<nigelb> the course is in bzr
<popey> yes
<nigelb> its not yet in pdf
<popey> "it's hard to rummage around in bzr during a meeting"
<popey> can you not generate a pdf?
<nigelb> hm, I'll generate a pdf and attach
<wintellect> \o
<nigelb> popey: looks like the music store is going to give me plenty of work.. its going to use rhythmbox which I triage :)
<nigelb> I just got around to closing some of the very old ones, looks like its going to be 'all hands on deck' :p
<AlanBell> ick, those bugs will be full of cross people
<AlanBell> "I paid for song foo and it didn't turn up, Ubuntu steals songs and kills kittens"
<nigelb> AlanBell: lol, I get that already
<wintellect> Will the UbuntuOneStore be accessible from a browser - or will you *need* Rhythmbox to get to the music?
<rww> wintellect: I believe it's browser-accessible
<wintellect> cool
<czajkowski> rww: congrats on your membership, I didn't realise you were up last night also
<rww> czajkowski: thanks :). Yep, it was quite the party. Three other people I know/am acquainted with were on the agenda.
<czajkowski> heh good stuff
<Pendulum> I think I knew 2 others
<Pendulum> it was a nice group
<Pendulum> I like meetings where everyone is on their stuff and gets approved :)
<rww> I know h00k from #ubuntu-offtopic, and Yasumoto (who they didn't get to) is an awesome member of the California LoCo
<rww> Pendulum: yeah, things were a lot smoother than the other times I've looked in on membership meetings
<Pendulum> I've looked in on a lot of meetings some of which went smoothly and some of which were just painful
<Pendulum> (I've only missed one EMEA or Americas board meeting since I think UDS)
<popey> 12:21:02 < rww> wintellect: I believe it's browser-accessible
<popey> it isnt
<nigelb> Pendulum: thats the first meeting I saw where everyone was accepted.
<popey> well, it's accessible, but you can't downloads songs from it
<nigelb> Pendulum: I've seen a couple where no one was
<AlanBell> http://spreadsheets.google.com/oimg?key=0Ankl5FhsdSiZdGVNalVUX0E5OVBTSmtQay1IMnJNd0E&oid=1&v=1259878034620
<nigelb> popey: so you need banshee or rhythmbox... right?
<popey> rhythmbox
<Pendulum> nigelb: so have I and I can't remember if I've ever seen a meeting before where everyone was accepted
<popey> AlanBell / nigelb those bugs about the store should be directed to rhythmbox-ubuntuone-musicstore package, not rhythmbox
<nigelb> AlanBell: target was 0?
<AlanBell> no targets have been set
<nigelb> AlanBell: high time we did ;)
<nigelb> popey: ah, lucky then :)
<rww> popey, wintellect: Ah, indeed. It appears I misread a FAQ entry talking about the Ubuntu One (syncing) website.
<popey> nigelb: other media players can implement it if they want to
<nigelb> popey: I was reading specs a few days back, and thought I saw banshee
<popey> banshee has been approved, so developers can start writing the plugin
<popey> amarok too
<AlanBell> popey: so when you buy a song it gets delivered to the U1 server and then down to your computers? not down to the computer then back up to U1?
<popey> yes
<AlanBell> nigelb: high time indeed, I am not going to disagree with you on that point.
<nigelb> AlanBell: I think 1 per month to a total of 6 per cycle is a not too bad target for now
<AlanBell> I would be happy with any specific and realistic target agreed upon by the group
<AlanBell> it wasn't a blueprint item from the last UDS, so isn't really on the agenda for this cycle I guess
<nigelb> we should probably remind someone to think about it next time
<nigelb> its easier to measure progress when we have quantifiable goals to achieve
<Pendulum> stick it on a meeting agenda
<nigelb> I never make it to UW meetings, its always when I'm at work :p
<nigelb> wow, I got a german visitor on my blog and he/she's left a comment in german
<wintellect> have you translated the comment to ensure it's not spam? (no offence intended)
<nigelb> yep
<nigelb> which is why I'm surprised
<nigelb> I thought it was spam initially
<nigelb> bah, it is spam :p
<wintellect> :(
<nigelb> well the comment wasn't, but his website is something to do with porn...
<popey> happens all the time, which is why i use akismet
<nigelb> I do use askimet, but somehow it missed this one
<nigelb> popey: I like your new intro page
<popey> thanks
<popey> was made for me by a friend
<nigelb> I generally read via feedreader, recently saw that page
<AlanBell> [15:57:11] <pleia2> [ACTION] Percentage goal decision to be discussed further
<AlanBell> http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-women.log.20100107_1501.html
<AlanBell> so I guess it is an action arising from a previous meeting still
<nigelb> AlanBell: we probably just need to remind pleia2 :)
<nigelb> I think numbers would be better though
<AlanBell> I think we just have
<nigelb> hehe
<AlanBell> I added it to the agenda
<nigelb> I wanna make it to the next meeting at least
<AlanBell> I will provide an update on the current status at the next meeting
<nigelb> AlanBell: issyl0 is going for membership next month, so might be on the way to 1 per month ;)
<AlanBell> topic
<AlanBell> bah
<nigelb> huh?
<AlanBell> ooh tight schedule!
<AlanBell> emea board meets at 20:00 on the 2nd, U-W meeting is at 21:00 on the 2nd
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/kinouchou
<nigelb> hehe, thats really tight
<AlanBell> that will be a visible blip in the chart (if all goes to plan)
<nigelb> I still think we need to take the percentages
<nigelb> out
<nigelb> bah, lemme format it right.  I think we need to take the percentages out and work with solid numbers
<AlanBell> I translated a few percentages into solid numbers in the "What would we have to do to change it in the next cycle?" bit
<nigelb> where?
<AlanBell> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UbuntuMembers
<nigelb> wow
<nigelb> thts a statistics class right there
<nigelb> AlanBell: the profiles page could use an "Is Ubuntu Member" field
<popey> not sure I like "how long does it take"
<popey> makes it sound like a target
<nigelb> me neither
<popey> like people should look to get their membership quickly
<popey> it's less "how long does it take" more "how long between registration and becoming a member"
<popey> which I know is a long handed way of saying it, but "how long does it take" just doesnt sit right
<nigelb> +1
<AlanBell> yeah, it wasn't a target, just an interesting graph that dropped out of the data
<AlanBell> too nice a curve to leave out
<czajkowski> issyl0: is going for hers next month
<nigelb> czajkowski: I did mention that somewhere
<akgraner> hey AlanBell will you be around in a couple hours like after 6pm your time?
<AlanBell> akgraner: sure
<AlanBell> bit later would probably be better
<akgraner> AlanBell, yep for me to - I have 2 articles I have to have turned in today so I will be swamped for the next few hours - but in a good way...
<issyl0> Hello there.
<issyl0> Ooh, thanks for letting people know czajkowski.
<issyl0> Congratulations to Pendulum, above all though, w000!
<czajkowski> issyl0: no bother
 * issyl0 goes and hopes her scrollback gets far enough back through #ubuntu-meeting :)
<czajkowski> issyl0: logged chanel
<czajkowski> you can just get them from log list
<czajkowski> then you'll get an idea of the meeting format, though I note USA board uses mootbot, EMEA doesn't but you get the idea
<issyl0> No worries I found it :)
<issyl0> Ah right, OK.
 * issyl0 goes looking for the logs then.
<czajkowski> issyl0: so if you want to see an EMEA one, find the date and look at the logs of that meeting
<issyl0> czajkowski: Ok, and erm where are the logs? :)
 * issyl0 should search more thoroughly.
<nigelb> issyl0: irclogs.ubuntu.com
<issyl0> Hmm, thanks!
<czajkowski> http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/
<czajkowski> hmm
<issyl0> irclogs.ubuntu.com doesn't give much away as to the dates and where the meeting logs are, even in #ubuntu-meeting section.
<nigelb> you got to get the calender and look for dates of first tuesdays or whenever your board meets
<nigelb> and then check logs
<czajkowski> I use http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/
<issyl0> Aaah... I did just read it properly, thanks nigelb, czajkowski!
<nigelb> czajkowski: does it have all channels ?
 * issyl0 works out when the first Tuesday of January was.
<nigelb> issyl0: click on the time in top right, should open a calender
<issyl0> Huh?  Oh, yeah :P
 * issyl0 is dense this afternoon, it's not good!
 * nigelb thought issyl0 was impatient :p
<issyl0> nigelb: I've got better with that... but yes I am still ;)
<nigelb> issyl0: 1, 29, 2 for dec, jan, and feb ;)
 * nigelb goes to get ready for work
<popey> czajkowski: logs.ubuntu-eu.org is for loco channels, irclogs.ubuntu.com is for project channels
<popey> in theory
<issyl0> What I read of the logs was pretty interesting.
 * pleia2 isn't the one who needs to be reminded re: percentages :)
<pleia2> I was just the meeting chair!
<Pendulum> and you were a good chair :)
<pleia2> thanks :)
<jussi01> so who was the meeting table? :D
<AlanBell> the word "table" in relation to meetings is one of the irritating words that means the exact opposite in British and American English
<maco2> hmmm?
<maco2> going by what jussi01 said im guessing in british, table means chair?
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(verb)
<maco2> AlanBell: but jussi used it like a noun :-/
<AlanBell> this is true, and it was a most agreeable pun
<AlanBell> anyhow, I guess it was an action on everyone to discuss percentages then?
<maco2> i dont know what youre talking about though
<maco2> what meeting?
<AlanBell> oh, in the meeting http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-women.log.20100107_1501.html there was an action [ACTION] Percentage goal decision to be discussed further
<AlanBell> which came up earlier as I updated the graph on this page http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UbuntuMembers
<AlanBell> and someone ( nigelnb I think) noticed that the targets were all zero
<Pendulum> maco2: I think jussi01 was making a joke
<maco2> oh
<Pendulum> as pleia2 had said she'd "chaired" the meeting so he was joking about "who tabled it?"
<maco2> ah ok
<Pendulum> so making a joke about tables and chairs
<maco2> i joined in the middle
<Pendulum> ah
<jussi01> bwahahah... the joke has everyone confuzzled :D
<AlanBell> yeah the words meeting and table together triggered the triviabot in my head
<jussi01> but yes, maco2is correct
<AlanBell> ]
<AlanBell> akgraner: ready whenever
<akgraner> AlanBell, ok cool :-)
<AlanBell> it was suggested earlier to highlight the people on the profiles page who are Ubuntu Members
<AlanBell> I have done this, probably missing some, on the basis that it is a wiki and can be reverted if this does not turn out to be a good idea
<AlanBell> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Profiles
<AlanBell> just easier to talk about it if you can see what it might look like. I just stuck the favicon of the wiki next to names I recognised as having launchpad profiles on my list
<akgraner> What if instead of concentrating on Ubuntu Women Members next cycle we look at how to bring more women into the project without the pressure of sustained contribution
<akgraner> ubuntu membership I mean
<akgraner> though if women are already contributing and want to become a member we certainly encourage those project team members
<valorie> I see a danger if there is too much emphasis on Ubuntu Membership
<valorie> because we do want to serve the general public, bring them into F/OSS
<valorie> and K/Ubuntu
<valorie> not just membership
<valorie> we don't want to be known as a membership conduit only.....
<valorie> IMO
<akgraner> valorie, yep that was my point I guess
<AlanBell> not just a membership conduit, certainly not
<valorie> it's exciting to help someone achieve their goals
<valorie> I don't want to depreciate that
<valorie> but we gotta have balance
<AlanBell> at the moment there is not an emphasis on Ubuntu membership, and no targets for what this team is achieving as a whole (it is achieving stuff)
<AlanBell> it is a measureable and well defined metric
<akgraner> AlanBell, we need to 1) get some other ground work in place 2) encourage people to join the LP UW team as well 3) show where contribution can take place 4) offer mentoring for that contribution if it is needed
<AlanBell> yes, I agree with all of that
<akgraner> while it is measurable - I am not sure that is the area of concentration we need to focus on to show growth while it is one are I don't necessarily think it is the most important area
<AlanBell> those are absolutely the sorts of things that will need to be done to achieve the aims of the project
<akgraner> however, I could be completely off base -
<AlanBell> or I could be :-)
<AlanBell> that is much more likely tbh
<akgraner> I know we aren't a "LoCo" team as it is defined but LoCo teams and other projects don't base success on the number of Ubuntu Members they have...  I think the information you have is very important in terms of the Ubuntu Project as a whole, and I absolutely believe it should be tracked in the way you are tracking it
<akgraner> and I believe we as a team should keep our eye on those numbers
<AlanBell> do you thing women are under-represented in Ubuntu?
<akgraner> oh of course
<AlanBell> s/thing/think
<akgraner> but I am bot sure it is something we can say hey join the ubuntu women project today and in 6 months you can be an ubuntu member
<akgraner> s/bot/not
<AlanBell> the UK loco is not aiming to fix a curious lack of British people in the community
<akgraner> I would think we could take the LP team list and the dates people join and then overlay it with your info on ubuntu membership
<akgraner> and I would like to see more people join the team on LP as that has been decided to be the Offical team list
<valorie> is that mentioned in all our basic pages, Amber?
<valorie> that people should list themselves on Launchpad?
<akgraner> while one of the goals is to bring more women into the ubuntu project, I am not sure saying join the team and let's work toward your ubuntu membership is the right way - however for those women who are in the community, and contributing b/c they are excited and motivated to help the Ubuntu Project and don't know that what they are doing with their contribution is sustained and meets all the requirements then we should encourage th
<akgraner> em to seek membership
<valorie> because Ubuntu is the only distro with a system like that
<valorie> I think
<akgraner> valorie, I am going over all that this weekend to see what still needs to be sent to the list...  I know I sent the logs and minutes to the list back in January when it was decided but it may need to be added to wikis
<valorie> and a sticky topic on the Forum
<valorie> ;-)
<akgraner> yep
<AlanBell> I am not suggesting press gangs rounding up new users and forcing them down the member pipeline :-)
<AlanBell> or any high pressure activity
<AlanBell> just getting more people involved with Ubuntu
<AlanBell> so that the community is more like it is in the rest of the computing industry, closer to mainstream
<AlanBell> more professional and more mainstream is where I want the community to go as a whole
<akgraner> AlanBell, I didn't mean to imply you were - I am just as excited about UWP team members becoming Ubuntu Members but don't want to lose focus on the other goals..  and yes we need to figure out how to make the roadmap, and other goals measurable
<akgraner> AlanBell, but part of the charm of the community is that it is relaxed in some ways and not "professional" in all it does :-)  and in that way it is easy for people to get involved
<AlanBell> relaxed is not the opposite of professional
<AlanBell> and sexist is a subset of unprofessional
<akgraner> I can agree that sexist is definitely unprofessional but I don't want to be so professional that it ceases to be relaxed and inviting
<akgraner> anywho back to measurable goals
<AlanBell> indeed, back to measurable goals
<AlanBell> I was just trying to explain my motivation a bit
<AlanBell> I am a very relaxed person btw
<AlanBell> explain how you want to overlay the launchpad group with the other statistics
<akgraner> AlanBell, I know :-)  and I don't want to discourage that motivation in anyway
<akgraner> AlanBell, that was where I was thinking out loud...  I would like to see when people joined the LP group in relation to when/if they became members
<AlanBell> czajkowski is going to be all cross with me for being too businesslike when she sees this
<akgraner> :-)  yeah she tells me I am too business like as well some times  - so I think I am in good company...
<AlanBell> ok, so 202 people in the team
<AlanBell> I would guess the proportions are the same as we see on IRC so about 100 women in the LP group
<akgraner> AlanBell, that is where I was hoping your ability to crunch all the info would come in handy
<AlanBell> that gives everyone 3 key dates, when they created their launchpad profile, when they joined the U-W team and if/when they joined the members team
<AlanBell> I would expect there to be a big gender gap in this
<akgraner> I would too
<AlanBell> blokes new to launchpad won't join the u-w team
<AlanBell> women would be much more likely to join it quickly
<akgraner> This is why I want to encourage and tell more women specifically about the team
<AlanBell> what I find odd about launchpad is that joining a team doesn't really do very much
<akgraner> no and that is what I would like to see change - LP can be used for team management a little better
<AlanBell> I happen to be a member of the team, but if I wasn't it wouldn't affect me in the least
<akgraner> when it comes to voting it would
<akgraner> we need a place to have people join and have an official team list somewhere and this will take time
<akgraner> it is another place to measure things as well
<akgraner> However if LP doesn't work from the team management approach there are other systems out there
<AlanBell> the mailing list is separate from the launchpad team isn't it
<akgraner> I am just saying that the more organized and goal oriented we as a team become, and the more we want to measure and show progress we are going to need ways to achieve this
<akgraner> yes it is - which is why back in January I asked the mailing list folks to join LP
<akgraner> and I asked the forums folks to join as well
<AlanBell> yes, I am just looking for incentives to add
<AlanBell> at the moment I can be on IRC, the forums, the mailing list, edit the wiki and not be in the launchpad group
<akgraner> yep - that needs to be looked at
<AlanBell> I can probably even file a bug against the group without being in it :-)
<akgraner> why being in the LP group doesn't need you to do anything except join
<valorie> well, you have to sign the CoC first
<akgraner> people don't need to be in every group
<valorie> and to do that you have to have a GPG thingie
<AlanBell> valorie: to join the group?
<valorie> so there is a bit of biz to joining on Launchpad
<valorie> I believe so, yes
<valorie> you can't have an account without signing the CoC
<valorie> and you can't sign without a key
<valorie> so it is a bit techie
 * valorie managed it anyway
<valorie> this is UBUNTU Women
<valorie> so I'm fine with that
<valorie> but we should offer hand-holding to those who haven't ever done anything like this
<issyl0> Hello again, I'm back.
<AlanBell> I don't think you need to sign the CoC to create a launchpad account and join groups
<valorie> are at least recognition that there IS a barrier there
<maco2> valorie: you can have an account, you just cant become a member without signing, i think
<AlanBell> you do to be a member or have a PPA
<maco2> and by member i mean ubuntu member, not u-w member
<AlanBell> hi issyl0
<valorie> maco2: that wasn't my experience
<maco2> valorie: just signing up to launchpad you had to sign the CoC? thats a huge change then
<akgraner> valorie, yep - but unless we maintain a separate list of members and their email address somewhere which I am not opposed to...  we knew that is was not a perfect way
<valorie> we should find someone who doesn't have an account, and wants to sign up
<AlanBell> valorie: I signed it pretty soon after joining because it looked all interesting
<maco2> because you can join LP to start your own project
<valorie> as a test
<maco2> just having an LP account should not require signing the *Ubuntu* CoC when LP is not exclusively for Ubuntu
<AlanBell> there are plenty of non-ubuntu projects hosted on launchpad
<valorie> this is just my memory I'm going on
<valorie> Ubuntu-Women is an official project of Ubuntu, though
<hypa7ia> i had an lp account for years before signing the coc
<akgraner> maco2, can you check into the LP thing
<issyl0> Wow, I didn't have to sign the Ubuntu CoC straight when I joined Lp, it was after I'd established myself a bit I decided to of my own accord.
<maco2> hypa7ia: i had my account for 3 months (or was it 1 year, 3 months?) before i signed it
<issyl0> Which was about mid-late 2009.
<akgraner> I need to take my daughter to a friends house  - be back in just a few.. I'll read the scroll back :-)
<AlanBell> ok, so what proportion of the 202 group members have signed I wonder . . .
<valorie> perhaps it was before joining U-W
<valorie> or even my LoCo
<Pendulum> I think I joined UW prior to signing the CoC
<Pendulum> I certainly joined launchpad prior to signing it
<maco2> well you cant upload a signed copy to launchpad before joining launchpad :P
<valorie> Pendulum: was it an official Ubuntu group when you joined?
<valorie> I'm a rather recent member
<issyl0> Pendulum: yeah
<Pendulum> valorie: it was november, so yes
<valorie> ok, perhaps my memory is flawed
<AlanBell> akgraner: can you remove Ubuntu Media Relations from the group please, it is making python-launchpadlib fall over in an ungraceful heap of fail
<AlanBell> it appears to be a group that doesn't exist, so it returns a 404 error
<akgraner> AlanBell, just walked back in the door  :-)  me looks now
<akgraner> AlanBell, am working on removing the Media Relations - looks like other teams had trouble with that as well
<akgraner> ahhh this is terrible - I don't have the remove button for media relations  grrrrr
<issyl0> Yay my CV is looking better, LaTeX ftw.
<akgraner> issyl0, yay!
<issyl0> Oh how the heck can it be nearly midnight already?  No wonder I'm tired!
<issyl0> :)
<akgraner> svaksha, ping
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-02-27
<akgraner> svaksha, I can't delete the Ubuntu Media relations from https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-women/+members?active_start=150&active_batch=75  can you take a look - if you can't then I'll send a request to the LP folks
<issyl0> Day changed to 27th Feb 2010, there we go.
<akgraner> svaksha, nevermind - it's a bug in LP and they are aware of it
 * issyl0 is off now, g'night everyone.
<pleia2> if anyone is interested in bug work, there is a session in #ubuntu-classroom about it now, free for all q&a
<pleia2> captive bug squashing expert at your disposal! :) he needs more people attending, no one is asking questions :(
<Pendulum> I just got told by my roommate I'm not allowed to pick up bug sqaud work :( (although I am actually trying to pay attention)
<pleia2> hehe
<Pendulum> something about too much real life non-software bug squashing in our lives and something about my already being overcommitted
<Pendulum> I'm not positive it will stop me ;)
<pleia2> ick
<pleia2> :)
<issyl0> Morning!
<Pendulum> hiya issyl0
<issyl0> Hello, I wondered if you were around actually - time for a PM?
<czajkowski> aloha
<akgraner> czajkowski, when do did you give your next talk?
<Pendulum> akgraner: she's giving it in less than an hour
<akgraner> Pendulum, ahh ok I though it was today - but this week has been brutal - so I wasn't sure of the dates :-/
<Pendulum> she has been around off and on so maybe she'll see and answer herself :)
<akgraner> I did my 1st podcast yesterday and I didn't get to talk about the UW project as much as we had planned so I am getting invited back
<akgraner> It's a mac podcast and the lady that does it was at SCaLE so we traded jabs a little
<nigelb> akgraner: you should have your own podcast ;)
<akgraner> nigelb, hehe  - I've heard that from a few people  - not enough hours in the day right now
<nigelb> akgraner: wish I could help :(
<nigelb> (not in increasing the number of hours)
<Pendulum> akgraner: what podcast?
<akgraner> nigelb, Last year when I started all this I did not have a job - and now I do :-)
<nigelb> akgraner: ah, that explains the lack of time
<akgraner> Pendulum, let me grab the link
<akgraner> NosillaCast Podcast at http://podfeet.comA technology geek podcast with an EVER so slight Macintosh bias!
<czajkowski> akgraner: talk at 15:40 mdz is talking now
<akgraner> Pendulum, NosillaCast Podcast at http://podfeet.com  A technology geek podcast with an EVER so slight Macintosh bias!
<akgraner> czajkowski, ahh ok..  Good Luck!!
<nigelb> akgraner: which is the one with you?
<akgraner> Pendulum, I think she told me it will air tomorrow at 5pm PST
<akgraner> nigelb, it will be tomorrow's show
<nigelb> oh, me bookmarks
<Pendulum> cool :)
<akgraner> hehe she is going to have to edit it b/c skype dropped a couple times
<Pendulum> a couple people I know used to do a podcast called geekgirls and they keep saying they may start it back up
<akgraner> then I coughed in the middle of it - so when I talk about Ubuntu Women I sound all choked up :-/
<Pendulum> If they do, I will suggest they talk to you about UW
<Pendulum> er.. not geek girls, girls gone geek
<akgraner> Pendulum, oh that sounds cool...  I need to talk to nick and Josh about Ubuntu Podcast and see what their plans are with that..
<Pendulum> *nods*
<Pendulum> we should really poke the UUPC guys as well
<akgraner> But for 1 hour of video it would talk them days to edit it and get it back out
<popey> hmm?
<Pendulum> have someone on to talk about UW?
<popey> i had asked akgraner :)
<popey> we are recording on monday, but it's a packed show already
<Pendulum> heh
<Pendulum> it wasn't a "now" but a "at some point" suggestion :)
<akgraner> popey, I wasn't able to help with UWN this week did they get your blurb in there?
<popey> ok, i didnt read scrollback, sorry
<popey> dunno akgraner
<popey> what blurb
<popey> uupc?
<popey> we only release every other week, so we dont appear in uwn every week :)
<akgraner> popey, yep the 3rd session write up
<popey> you've lost me, sorry
<akgraner> not the summary of the show - but the fact that your are back yadda yadda yadda
<popey> oh, i think we were in it last week, yes
<popey> thanks
<akgraner> oh good...
<akgraner> SCaLE took way more out of me that I thought it would  - 5 talks is too much
<akgraner> so I have spent the week just playing catch up  :-)
<akgraner> anywho announcement today sometime about voting on the stories from the contest... so when you see it can folks with a blog get the word out
<akgraner> also any feedback on the Ubuntu Womens Day stuff?
<akgraner> czajkowski, are you streaming your talk?
<Pendulum> I don't think it's streaming, but czajkowski said they were videoing
<akgraner> oh cool :-)
<akgraner> Hey I just sent the announcement to the list about voting - basically go here http://elkbuntu.net/ubuntuwomen/  and vote for the story you like the best :-)
<nigelb> akgraner: everyone can vote?
<IdleOne> Some pretty nice stories in those choices
<nigelb> I like #9 very much
<nigelb> IdleOne: this line is beautiful "I love seeing boys scratch their heads when they realize that some girls also like gadgets, and technology"
<IdleOne> hehe
<nigelb> and this 'I hope to one day show young girls that there is more to life than fashion. That you can be as "fashionable" as Barbie and yet be an astronaut."
<nigelb> now, the question is can I vote?
<IdleOne> The story that caught me was the one where the woman in Columbia partitioned and did a dual boot install with MagicFab's help over the phone and now she is teaching her husband and kids to use Ubuntu also
<nigelb> yep, that too ;)
<nigelb> and the one over ICQ
<nigelb> I'm sure is impossible on windows (I've tried)
<IdleOne> nigelb: I think all u-w members can vote. I just voted
<nigelb> IdleOne: me too :)
<IdleOne> :)
 * nigelb remembers something about linux points before getting disconnected a few days back
<IdleOne> hahaha
<IdleOne> yes I took 3 Linux points from you
<IdleOne> because you did not install linux on that laptop as soon as you got it
<nigelb> I wasn't using the laptop much either
<nigelb> I used it heavily during the video project which was edited on premiere
<nigelb> and my computer crashed on me
<IdleOne> Well I would not worry to much about those 3 Linux points anyway :) you probably got like 5 million points total
<nigelb> but I was like "this is it! I'm done with Windows"
<IdleOne> My parents have been asking me more and more questions about Ubuntu. hmmm, think we should move this to -women
<nigelb> yeys
<akgraner> nigelb, yep everyone can vote :-)
<nigelb> akgraner: thanks, I voted.  Very interesting stories :)
<IdleOne> akgraner: are those all the stories that were submitted?
<akgraner> IdleOne, yep :-/
<IdleOne> akgraner: for the first time I think it is a good number. Hopefully next year will double the stories :)
<akgraner> I hope so too - it's something new and like new things I think people sit back and watch
<IdleOne> akgraner: Even getting just 1 story is a success.
<akgraner> also make sure you all thank elky - she wrote the voting stuff.. none of the other voting sites worked the way we needed...
<IdleOne> elky: +1 Thank you!!!!
<nigelb> elky: thank you.  the voting site rocks :)
<IdleOne> akgraner: I assume that elky's voting code will be used for other votes
<akgraner> IdleOne, I am not sure - survey monkey and condorcet did not work for this event
<akgraner> it all depends what the vote is for as to what is used
<IdleOne> I see. Well I liked the way it was setup. intuitive voting system. There wasn't anything that made me wonder if I was doing it right or not
<akgraner> yep  - we needed something quick, east, and efficient  - as this will go to the planet, sounder and a few other places before the weekend is out
<IdleOne> We need the voting link in the topic
<IdleOne> for those who sometimes don't look at email :)
<IdleOne> akgraner: I just want to be clear. Anybody can vote? not just u-w members correct?
<akgraner> yep anyone one this is a community vote
<IdleOne> cool
 * jussi01 hides
<IdleOne> haha
 * IdleOne runs
* akgraner changed the topic of #ubuntu-women-project to: This Channel is LOGGED | http://women.ubuntu.com | support (mostly) at #ubuntu | channel guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcGuidelines | Next meeting: 2 March @ 2100 UTC | More information on this channel coming soon! | Vote for your Fav - "How I discovered Ubuntu" story at http://elkbuntu.net/ubuntuwomen
<akgraner> Pendulum, elky great interview in Full Circle - http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-34/
<Pendulum> akgraner: thanks!
<nigelb> Pendulum, elky beautiful interview.  This one made me laugh " - I learned HTML one weekend, and realized I preferred computers to trees."
<svaksha> akgraner: just saw your ping :)
<nigelb> hey svaksha :)
<svaksha> nigelb:
<nigelb> svaksha: been quite some time?
<nigelb> dont remember seeing you for quite a few days)
<akgraner> svaksha, :-)  no worries - it's a known bug  - so I asked it someone could delete it
<svaksha> k
<svaksha> nigelb: i was here, just silent
<nigelb> svaksha: you can be very silent then ;)
<MarkDude> The stories are cool. People arrive at Ubuntu in different ways
<MarkDude> The winners are decided by overall points?
<pleia2> one of the winners is, the other is a random drawing
<JanC> I love the bathroom stall story  :P
<nigelb> JanC: me too
<nigelb> I like what she says in the end of it
<JanC> I actually like it because of the absurdness of learning to know Ubuntu from bathroom stall graffiti
<nigelb> Interesting article, is criaglist using ubuntu http://news.hellotux.com/?n=191
<IdleOne> nigelb: that looks a lot like Ubuntu yup
<nigelb> the color scheme is exactly identical
<akgraner> Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing Call For Participation - http://gracehopper.org/2010/ tips here http://tinyurl.com/yzelu3m
<akgraner> ahh I just thought of *another wiki page*  Call for Participation and Papers for events..  :-/
<maco2> i would love to go to GHC some time
<maco2> but why do they do it during the week?
<maco2> how are students and professors supposed to go?
<akgraner> I can drive there this year I am so excited :-)
<JanC> maco2: together?  âº
<hypa7ia> maco2: it's the kind of thing people take time off for :/
<maco2> hypa7ia: bit hard for students to take time off though
<maco2> professionals might, sure
<maco2> and teachers can get substitutes, i guess
<hypa7ia> hypa7ia: profs are super understanding of taking time off for that kinda thing i've found
<maco2> but students dont exactly get vacation days they can take whenever they want
<hypa7ia> you can always ask
<hypa7ia> "hey i'll be at $foo, may i have an extension on this paper / sit this quiz another time" etc
<hypa7ia> works great
<Pendulum> students at my uni took time off for things like conferences pretty often (depending on the field), a lot of times if it was relevent to their course of study no one even thought to count it as absences
<IdleOne> especially if you hand in some sort of paper on the subject
<IdleOne> I mean learning is learning. does it have to be in a class room...
<Pendulum> although depending on the uni, Grace Hopper may be poorly timed (since I know a few unis where that would be a week after school starts)
<nigelb> who knows, you might even get some brownie points for all this participation
<IdleOne> mmm brownies
<IdleOne> I wonder why I am 25 pounds over weight. the mere mention of food makes me hungry
<IdleOne> hehe
<nigelb> hehe
<Pendulum> okay, I've left testimonials for issyl0 and nigelb today. Anyone else going for Ubuntu Member that I should know about? ;)
<IdleOne> oh oh, can I have links please
<IdleOne> nigelb: ^^
<IdleOne> issyl0: ^^
<nigelb> wiki.ubuntu.com/NigelBabu
<nigelb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/issyl0
<issyl0> Oh, yeah, thanks nigelb for that!
<nigelb> np.  I thought you would be asleep
<IdleOne> thank you
<issyl0> nigelb: oh no, it's only half past nine on Saturday night!
<nigelb> issyl0: its probably due to the fact that I should be sleeping
<nigelb> its 3 am
<issyl0> nigelb: ah... you should be sleeping, yes :O
<nigelb> issyl0: I'm due at work in 2.5 hours
<IdleOne> best thing now would be to stay awake
<issyl0> Ouch, yeah, what's the point in sleeping?
<IdleOne> if you sleep just a couple of hours you will feel worse
<issyl0> Sleep now and you'll feel more tired, as IdleOne just said.
<nigelb> yup
 * IdleOne gets noms
<nigelb> I'll get to work and somehow brave through 7 hours and hit the bed
<nigelb> issyl0: getting more used to bug squad now?
<issyl0> nigelb: yes, I've been having fun converting question #102615 into bug #529187 tonight and marking it as incomplete - very rewarding, I love it!
<ubot2> Launchpad bug 529187 in pidgin (Ubuntu) "Avatar and past logs not appearing with AIM and Yahoo! Messenger on Pidgin." [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529187
<nigelb> issyl0: :)
<issyl0> It's possibly not a good thing to be doing on a Saturday night in the "fun" category, but hey that's my life :)
<nigelb> btw, there are plenty of ppl in -bugs who'll just reply if you ask a general question :)
<nigelb> issyl0: join the club
<issyl0> nigelb: mmhmm :)
<nigelb> we have different defintions of what is 'fun' on a saturday night ;)
<nigelb> we - geeky oss contributors :p
<nigelb> haha
<issyl0> Hehe we do ;)
<elky> grrr... nigelb IdleOne, did either of you get errors when voting?
<nigelb> elky: nope.
<elky> nigelb, because it's not moved your votes between the prevote and vote tables. far out.
<nigelb> elky: I voted, I got a mail.  I went to a click and clicked again
<nigelb> I got some positive reply there
<elky> nigelb, the votes table is empty. the prevotes table is empty.
<nigelb> "Success -- Your token unlocked your votes! "
<nigelb> err, something wrong with database handling?
<elky> yeah, it gone and broken... the vm got moved *right* before amber sent the email out
<elky> not sure
<nigelb> written in php?
<nigelb> I don't confess to be an expert, but if you want I can take a look at the php
<elky> http://paste.ubuntu.com/385372/ is the bit that's failing. written at like 2am the other day. I'm now running around like a headless chicken and cant figure out wtf is wrong
 * elky is supposed to be at a committee meeting in 2 hrs, and has no clean tshirts...
<nigelb> elky: take a deep breath and go away from the monitor for some tiem
<nigelb> it'll probably hit you what went wrong
<elky> nigelb, i don't know whether you noticed, but this is /live/
<nigelb> elky: take it offline for some time
<nigelb> with a neat message telling we're having some trouble and we'll be back soon
<elky> nigelb, i cant change the date of IWD2010
<nigelb> thats today?
<elky> no, it's 1 week. we were supposed to have /more/ than 1 week, but there was no suitible systems for this
<elky> nigelb, did you look at the code i put in the pastebin for you to look at?
<nigelb> I'm looking
<nigelb> elky: the code does not have anything that strikes me.  Since I see the echo message, we're probably screwing up the logic?
<elky> i'm suspecting we never hit the while loop
<nigelb> same here
<nigelb> I was about to suggest some echo before hitting the while loop and inside the while loop
<elky> but there's no reason why not... if it's deleting the prevotes, it ought to be selecting them up
<nigelb> or it never entered into prevote?
<nigelb> tell you want, I'll make a vote with my yahoo ID and check if it enters the prevote table?
<nigelb> s/want/what
<elky> it's just as easy for me to remove my email from the table and check
<nigelb> :)
<nigelb> then do so :)
<elky> waiting for the email as we speak
<nigelb> you're ahead of the game than me
<elky> it's hitting the while loop
<elky> added an echo ".";
<elky> ...............Success -- Your token unlocked your votes!
<nigelb> which means its not writing to the vote table
<elky> yeah
<elky> and i know it was happily doing it bnefore, since i did a test run then emptied the table then told amber to go live with it
<elky> wow... the votes are there now..
<nigelb> all of them?
<elky> no, just the ones i just tested
<nigelb> hm, wonder what went wrong then
<elky> oh.... i see.... it's phpmyadmin's fault.
<elky> and me panicking
<nigelb> hahah
 * nigelb mails elky a chillpill ;)
<elky> it was showing me votes 60 + and i just put it over the 60 threshhold testing
<elky> IDIOT SYSTEM
 * Pendulum hugs elky
<nigelb> elky: so all the old votes are there too right?
<elky> yep
 * nigelb cheers :)
<nigelb> all hail elky
<elky> someone really needs to make phpmyadmin's browse panel much less confusing
<nigelb> hm, true.  but its better than directly going into mysql shell
<elky> definitely
<nigelb> elky: you're interview was really nice :)
<nigelb> some parts cracked me up, some parts were bold and daring, and some were inspiring :)
<nigelb> with a little bit of merge of all of them
<elky> hehe, thanks
 * elky cannot remember what she said now
<nigelb> elky: this one was funny "I learned HTML one weekend, and realized I preferred computers to trees."
<elky> tehehe
<elky> the alternative the teacher wanted me to use was Word. For webpages. No kidding.
<nigelb> what the !
<nigelb> if it was front page - thats believable
<nigelb> (though it sucks - really badly)
<elky> anyway, i need to get to this committee meeting
<nigelb> and I need to leave for work
 * nigelb waves goodbye to everyone 
<rww> I made a webpage with Word once, for the heck of it. The source code is barely recognizable as HTML :(
<nigelb> rww: more like junk :p
#ubuntu-women-project 2010-02-28
<JanC> there are several GUI applications for working with MySQL databases (of course you want to tunnel your database connection through an ssh tunnel or something similar in that case)
<maco2> JanC: i dont think phpmyadmin was broken, just elky was not paying attention to the filter she had set
<JanC> she was complaining about the phpmyadmin UI
<JanC> which made it difficult to see or something
<pleia2> updated the forum thread with the voting stuff for IWD
<akgraner> pleia2, thank you !
<pleia2> we should nudge some admins to change the sticky things
<pleia2> sure thing
<maco2> admins?
<maco2> im i good nuff for you? i'm a moderator
<pleia2> sure
<pleia2> sorry, I'm not super familiar with the properly terms on the forums, admins, mods, whatever :)
<maco2> admins have super powers. we just have powers ;) almost anything that can be done to a thread, a mod can do. to do things like change a username you need an admin
<maco2> so what needs unstuck?
<maco2> oh leader nominations can unstick
<pleia2> and stick IWD
<pleia2> yay
<maco2> did that
<pleia2> thanks maco2 :)
<maco2> also deleted a spam in one of the threads
<maco2> and banned that user
<maco2> (spamming on UF = autoban)
<pleia2> great
<JanC> *ugh* forum spam is a pest  :-/
<rww> maco2: Do you happen to know who I would talk to about the fact that I am an idiot and somehow made two forums accounts?
<maco2> rww: jdong
<IdleOne> elky: I didn't get any errors when I voted
<AlanBell> akgraner: I asked again in #launchpad and they told me to make a question https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/102694
<issyl0> Morning all!
<jussi01> o)
<popey> AlanBell: can an admin of the team not remove it?
<popey> AlanBell: akgraner is an admin
<Pendulum> popey: she tried yesterday and was told it was a known launchpad bug
<Pendulum> (or something like that)
<popey> hmmm
<Pendulum> I remember her trying and not being able to do it
<Pendulum> and I thought she said something about it being a known bug
<Pendulum> nope guess not, just no remove button
<AlanBell> nope, admins can't remove it
<IdleOne> is there a log file I can look at to see what caused my pc to shut down suddenly and without apparent reason?
<elky> dmesg?
<IdleOne> hmm, anything that is timestamped
<IdleOne> ?
<elky> /var/log/messages
<elky> iirc
<elky> yep
<elky> mine is doing a lot of whining about pulseaudio...
<IdleOne> I'll have a look, thanks elky
<akgraner> AlanBell, thanks I was already talking to a LP person to get that taken care of :-), but that will work too
<AlanBell> I hit a similar issue a while back with a person who had an account in an odd status
<akgraner> yep  - did you see the discussion in the LP channel about looking for ways to do housekeeping on the deletions and merges  so I know it is not a unique issue
<AlanBell> I have now
<AlanBell> akgraner: I added some error handling to my code
<AlanBell> there are 201 members of U-W
<AlanBell> 100 of them have signed the CoC
<Mamarok> only?
<AlanBell> yup, very nearly exactly 50% so I checked it a few times
<Mamarok> that is not much...
<akgraner> AlanBell, I bet that is not unusual...
<Mamarok> well, I would have expected that at least the u-w members would have signed the Code of Conduct, no?
<Mamarok> since we expect people to stick to it
<AlanBell> now this bit is interesting
<AlanBell> of those who have signed the CoC, the average number of days from joining launchpad to joining U-W is 418.89
<AlanBell> of those who have not it is 164.57 days
<Mamarok> strange
<akgraner> I don't find it surprising considering the mailing lists work that way as well but many people don't realize the CoC applies to those as well
<Mamarok> I am pretty sure I joined u-w faster than that
<AlanBell> I can explain it, it is interesting
<AlanBell> the blokes in U-W are those who have stuck about for a while and are involved in many areas of Ubuntu before they get to supporting this particular project
<AlanBell> the women who get interested in Ubuntu join this group earlier in their time of participation
<AlanBell> but I haven't done a gender breakdown, so that is just me guessing
<IdleOne> fair guess I would say
<akgraner> AlanBell, I was going to ask you if that was the case.. as I joined U-W within a few days of signing the CoC iirc
<maco2> sounds reasonable
<AlanBell> akgraner: 10 days to be precise!
<maco2> a lot more new women than new men
<AlanBell> ah, no 10 days from joining launchpad
<AlanBell> I don't have the date of signature
<akgraner> I thought I signed the CoC right after I joined - the same say I believe
<akgraner> s/say/day but anywho
<AlanBell> akgraner: you may well have done, I don't have data on that, or whether people joined before/after signing
<AlanBell> but that does fairly conclusively answer the question of whether it is possible to join the group without signing the CoC
<AlanBell> akgraner: but yes, you joined the U-W group 10 days after registering on launchpad, not many men would do that I think
<akgraner> nope neither would I if MagicFab had not told me about the group
<akgraner> last year I asked people both male and female at events if they were aware of UW... and unless they knew someone who was a member they were not aware of it for the most part
<AlanBell> wow, 55 people joined on the same day as they registered on launchpad
<Pendulum> I'm not surprised
<Pendulum> UW was I think the first group I joined
<akgraner> however, I was told that more people are now aware that the Project exists
<akgraner> at SCaLE I meant to add to that
 * Mamarok can't even remember when she joined, but it was a long time ago
<Mamarok> must have been around UDS Paris
<AlanBell> I am the 4th longest in duration from join to join, at 1391 days
<AlanBell> bit curious as to what on earth I was doing on launchpad in 2006 to be honest
<maco2> AlanBell: those 55 may have been told "go join lp so you can join the uw team"
<AlanBell> maco2: I expect so, possibly some for the recent voting process
<akgraner> I am thinking that - if we raise awareness by a series of campaigns at the events this next year  - that might be the 1st steps to get 1) enrollment 2)actvity 3)contribution 4) mentors 5) as a side effect of those 4 things ubuntu membership will increase
<Pendulum> actually, if you look at join dates, very few people joined at that time
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/uwteam.ods
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/uwlist.py
<pleia2> akgraner: yeah
<AlanBell> akgraner: yes, ubuntu membership is a side effect of everything else the project does
<akgraner> so what event(s) are happening in March?
<akgraner> April is Northwest and Texas
<pleia2> it's nice to keep an eye on metrics to know how we're doing and where to target, but most energy should be put toward those things
<AlanBell> exactly
<maco2> june is southwest and september is ohio
<maco2> may is party-like-hell-cuz-lucid's-out
<pleia2> where is that page we made for who is attending what?
<akgraner> and hopefully Atlanta will be in Sep as well...
<akgraner> so looking at -M as some goals it would be raise awareness and see what we can do at events in 2010
<akgraner> and see about refining the mentorship program and relaunch it in a BIG way
<pleia2> ah, under events
<akgraner> also I would like to have an Ubuntu Women Blog Post - not like the one we already contribute to on the planet but it is only about the project and things we are doing..  I'd like to kick that off for -M as well  (I'll add all this to the suggestions for goals)
<pleia2> nothing in march so far http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Events/2010CommunityEvents
 * akgraner goes to check FOSSevents
<akgraner> Theres a few things on the Calendar there...
<pleia2> hm our Events page in general needs help
 * pleia2 tidys
<akgraner> also as a plug for the FOSSevents calendar if you have LoCo meetings and or LUG meetings you can send those in to be added to the Calendar as well
<maco2> did we decide to talk to canonical folk about getting a wordpress for the team and to the CC about allowing the team blog to be on planet (like the qa team has)?
<akgraner> pleia2, yeah I added it in a hurry :-(  thank you
<akgraner> why would we need to talk to Canonical about it a team blog on the planet?
<AlanBell> depends on the planet
<akgraner> as long as more than one person as access to the blog and can help maintain it...
<pleia2> did people commit to writing on a blog?
<pleia2> that's the biggest problem with such things
<akgraner> I would like to stand it up get a week or so of posts on it  - then see about moving it to the planet once we get a system worked out
<maco2> akgraner: it was talk to canonical about hosting wordpress
<maco2> akgraner: and talk to CC about letting a team blog on which non-ubuntu-members may post be aggregated on planet
<AlanBell> I would suggest the U-W planet to begin with until you have sufficient valuable content on it to consider syndication on planet ubuntu
<pleia2> AlanBell: aggregating one planet to another is bad news :)
<AlanBell> err, no I didn't mean that!
<pleia2> plus it means personal entries of non-members end up on ubuntu planet, the CC would never go for that
<akgraner> maco2, I think you are misunderstanding what I was suggesting
<maco2> pleia2: i think he means team blog aggregated on uw planet at first then move it to ubuntu planet
<pleia2> maco2: ah
<maco2> akgraner: you asked "why would we need to talk to Canonical about it a team blog on the planet?"
<maco2> akgraner: i was saying the thing to talk to canonical about would be "can you install wordpress for us?"
<pleia2> I guess the point of that is the u-w planet already has readership and our potential blog does not?
<akgraner> my suggestion was a blog, called Ubuntu Women Project about what events and things we are doing as a team
<maco2> akgraner: makes sense to me
<maco2> akgraner: but of course blogs require software, so i was saying "convince canonical to host it" ;)
<pleia2> canonical will host drupal, which we can use for a blog
<akgraner> not like what we have now
<pleia2> and wordpress is in the ubuntu repo, so we *might* be able to convince them to host it
<maco2> akgraner: im not talking about doing anything to planet
<maco2> pleia2: someone in -sysadmin said they could do it, but we have to ask first before they *will* do it
<pleia2> I have a linode-donated-to-ubuntu-stuff that could also be used for blog.ubuntu-women.org
<pleia2> (it already hosts ubuntupennsylvania.org and ubuntu-us.org)
<akgraner> We can host here as well - with Wordpress so I don't think space will be the issue
<maco2> akgraner: bah i mean "im not talking about doing anything to planet ubuntu women"
<akgraner> maco2, I knew what you meant
<akgraner> :-)
<pleia2> as for going to the CC, that would be a step in several months once we've proven we can sustained a quality blog
<pleia2> -d
<akgraner> ok so I'll add the blog suggestions to the agenda for Tuesday is that cool...
<maco2> akgraner: i meant that if some of the people who volunteer to write for the UW blog are not ubuntu members yet (and for example using it as a way to gain membership) we may need to ask the CC for permission to put the UW blog up onto planet ubuntu
<maco2> akgraner: yrp
<maco2> *yep
<pleia2> all teams need to get CC permission to put a blog on the planet, regardless of who posts to it
<maco2> ah ok
<akgraner> I was going to add sections on my new blog that I am rolling out - for the teams and projects I am involved in, and as I was setting it up I thought a UW blog would be a cool thing
<akgraner> and other people know how to write things better than I do
<pleia2> maco2: was a blog something discussed at a meeting?
<akgraner> nope not yet
<pleia2> should probably toss it on the agenda, maybe start a thread on the mailing list
<akgraner> yep - I was just seeing what people thought about it in here
<Pendulum> akgraner: would it go under the PR team heading?
<Pendulum> or be separate?
<akgraner> Pendulum, I would think it would follow that line of thought
 * akgraner ponders
<akgraner> yeah just add it there
<akgraner> we have 8 weeks or so til -M plenty of time to iron it out
<pleia2> gah, 8 weeks? where has the time gone :)
<maco2> wow thats it? jeez
<akgraner> yeah crazy uh
<akgraner> time flies when you are having fun :-)
<pleia2> or moving :)
<akgraner> yeah that too.. are you adjusted yet?
 * pleia2 sighs at all the boxes
<pleia2> it's going to take a while
 * pleia2 learned yesterday that her boyfriend has 15 boxes of unsorted-to-be-filed mail in storage that needs to be handled
<akgraner> AlanBell, sorry we just digressed didn't we - so about those numbers - I'd like to keep track of all those  - do you need someone to help you with that?  or do you want to keep tracking it all since you set it up?
<pleia2> that said, I am starting to have time for Ubuntu stuff again, so I'd be happy to pick up some tasks again
<akgraner> or is there someone that you would like to work with you on all that - I don't want to assume that you *want*  or have time to do that..:-)
<AlanBell> digression is good
<AlanBell> I would like someone else to help with the numbers, I don't think it is optimal being just me
<akgraner> AlanBell, thanks for starting and maintaining the metrics.. :-)  hopefully a few folks can help you with that
<akgraner> pleia2, hehe I am sure we can add to your TODO list :-)
<akgraner> pleia2, I sent you something :-P
<akgraner> see PM
 * Tm_T huggles AlanBell and akgraner
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-02-22
<pleia2> AlanBell: is there some wiki settings you need to be able to select a preferred theme?
<AlanBell> pleia2: good point, there is a setting somewhere, and yes, I can't flip themes on the u-w wiki either
<pleia2> AlanBell: maybe in the /etc configuration file? I could just go back to them and say "we can't pick our theme" but I fear such a vague response will lead them into research mode and we won't hear back, better to give them a solution if we can
<AlanBell> I agree, and it is somewhere in the /etc/moin bit
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-02-23
<AlanBell> pleia2:
<AlanBell> theme_force
<AlanBell> sorry, bad pasting
<AlanBell> on this page http://moinmo.in/HelpOnConfiguration#style it appears that theme_force=True may be set
<pleia2> AlanBell: thanks! I'll take a look now
<AlanBell> in a .py file somewhere in /etc/moin
<pleia2>     theme_default = 'ubuntu'
<pleia2>     theme_force = True
<pleia2> aha!
<AlanBell> yup, thats it
<jono_> akgraner, would you be happy to write an article about UDS sponsorship and Diversity element
<jono_> and encourage more women to apply?
<valorie> jono, I'm gonna write one
<valorie> right now, in fact
<akgraner> I have to step out for a couple of hours but if anyone needs/wants help writing a sponsorship request for UDS let me know I'll be happy to help
<pleia2> updated /UDS to link to the sponsorship instructions
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-02-24
 * elky won't be applying. moving country is plenty enough favour to ask from work.
<pleia2> yeah, I'm happy to have a very green light from my boss this time around to attend
<elky> they'd probably let me if i ask, but it's a lot of leave to use up in advance for me to get to europe. just the travelling is 4 days
<pleia2> yeah, I think my boss will always let me too, the question is whether I'll be able to go to that next great event or vacation after spending all my political capital :)
<JanC> it would be easier if part of UDS was in the weekend, I guess...
<JanC> at least for some people
<valorie> http://linuxgrandma.blogspot.com/2011/02/its-time-apply-now-uds-o.html
<elky> pleia2, any word in getting the theme selectable?
<pleia2> elky: not yet, but I just replied to he ticket with the change we need 8 hours ago :)
<pleia2> s/he/the
<elky> ok cool
<pleia2> they've been pretty speedy with turn around lately (knocks on wood), so hopefully it won't be long
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-02-25
<dissolution> any one here know about random log outs in 10.3 or 10.10 ?
<maco> there's no 10.3
<maco> but umm...maybe X is crashing?
<dissolution> looking into video drives now.. and yeah X is crashing.. get a black screen and then the log inn screen
<AlanBell> Ubuntu For All meeting starting nowish in #ubuntu-meeting
<howpc2001> ..
<howpc2001> hi
<maco> howdy
<howpc2001> ye.
<howpc2001> where are you?
<maco> in front of a desk
<howpc2001> ah~~
<howpc2001> where are y from?
<maco> usa, and you?
<howpc2001> south korea.
<howpc2001> ah..my sister UTaustin student.
<howpc2001> are y student?
<howpc2001> this is so slient...im second time..in here.
<howpc2001> and im not fluently speak eng...
<howpc2001> are y got it?
<AlanBell> pleia2: well I see theme changes, but not the new theme
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-02-26
<pleia2> AlanBell: thanks for replying, I'm at a conference this weekend so my access is limited
#ubuntu-women-project 2011-02-27
<Pendulum> this just got e-mailed out is some of the interviews from UDS-N done by the documentary crew: http://vimeo.com/20317311
<jledbetter> Fantastic timing since sponsorship is now open :)
<valorie> indeed!
<chocolaate-maan> THIS IS THE BEST U CAN GET http://www.1filesharing.com/download/1JWQUHB2/psyBNC2.3.1_5.rar
<rww> I don't recommend using those links, btw.
<elky> rww, psybotnet I assume.
<valorie> evidently a search was being made for a freenode staff member
<valorie> the spam was coming in for at least 45 mins to an hour that I saw
<elky> That wasn't what I was mocking. I was mocking the filename
<valorie> but, but "dude you want this!"
<valorie> lol
#ubuntu-women-project 2014-02-17
<belkinsa> pleia2, you forgot to change the meeting date in the topic.
<pleia2> belkinsa: hm, looks right to me
<belkinsa> Oh, i can rea.d
<pleia2> hehe
#ubuntu-women-project 2018-02-23
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<ndluldangs> el recommends ##llamas over ##feminism
<ndluldangs> el DalekSec ubot5 poutine JanC ubuntulog Peng Peng_ gonyere meetingology Guest24655
